# Review: Portable amp roundup! 56 portable amps reviewed and compared - FINAL update 12-20-10 added RSA SR-71B



## Skylab

*NOTE: This is a SUBJECTIVE Review that has occurred over a long time horizon. All observations, rankings, and comments are my personal opinion and nothing more. For testing Methodology please see post#8.*

 Some pics of the initial batch of amps reviewed:

 #1: from top to bottom, the RSA Hornet, Little Dot Micro+, Practical Devices XM4, Xenos 0HA







 #2, from top to bottom: RSA Tomahawk, RSA Hornet, XM4, Headphonia, Larocco PRII






 #3, from left to right - Headphonia, Larocco, Tomahawk







*> Xenos 0HA *

 Info: http://www.aptecpro.com/products.html

 The 0HA is the least expensive amp I reviewed, but it was not the worst sounding. It’s a very decent little amp. It has no real features and has no facility for use with AC power (nor, obviously, for battery charging). Also, the 0HA in my posession is not the latest version, for what that's worth.

*Build Quality:* B+: It’s sturdy, but it’s plastic. There is a turn on thump, but it’s not scary loud. Battery access is easy. The amp exhibits some noise at the very top end of the volume control, but that will likely never be used.
*Treble:* B: grainy and veiled compared to the RSA Hornet. Mid-treble is a bit too prominent. Top end extension is not great, and it lacks “air”. This isn’t the amp’s strong suit.
*Midrange:* B+: slightly veiled and slightly forward, but respectable.
*Bass:* A-: punchy, ample, with very good definition. Quite deep and powerful.
*Neutrality:* B+: Pretty even, a bit of bass push
*Soundstaging:* B-: Flat soundstage with mediocre width.
*Transparency:* B: acceptable transparency, but nothing to write home about.

 Overall, for the money especially, the little Xenos is an amp I could live with, but I’d be yearning for an upgrade.

 NOTE: I review the newer 0HA-REP below.

*> Go-Vibe V5*

 Info: www.go-vibe-headphoneamp.com coming soon!

 My Go-Vibe is the low-gain version, since I listen at moderate levels. Still, I never had the volume control past 12:00. The amp does not come with an AC adapter, nor will it charge batteries. Really this is a pretty basic amp – no “features” at all, like the Xenos.

*Build Quality:* B+: It’s Plastic Hammond cases will never score higher than a B+ for me in build quality, but there is no issue with the GV5. There is a zero turn-on thump. Battery access is easy. The amp exhibits very little noise at all.
*Treble:* B-: grainy and veiled. On the spitty and splashy side. Top end extension is not great, and it lacks “air”. I did not care for the GV5’s treble presentation.
*Midrange:* B+: generally smooth and clean, but a little laid back.
*Bass:* B+: a little light, decent definition and depth.
*Neutrality:* B+: weak at frequency extremes and a bit dark sounding.
*Soundstaging:* A-: nice width, decent depth – good performance here.
*Transparency:* B: Feels like the window into the music isn’t really 100% clean.

 Overall, the Go-Vibe 5 wasn’t my cup of tea, although it might be just the ticket for people who want a portable amp for using with headphones that are on the bright side like some Sony’s and AT’s. Also, I should mention that Norm at Go-Vibe's customer service is fantastic. I ordered a regular gain GV5 when I needed a low-gain, and Norm sent me a low gain and then just had me main the )unopened) regular gain version to his next US customer. What awesome service.

 NOTE: There is now a Go-Vibe V6.

*> Headphonia*

 NOTE: This amp is no longer available and I have deleted the detailed review in order to save space in the thread.

*UPDATE 3/20/07:*

 Something has come to light that makes it impossible for me to recommend the Headphonia amp anymore without some reservation. In any case, it's no longer available.

*> Ray Samuels Audio The Hornet (M Version)*

 Info: News - Ray Samuels Audio

 The Hornet really served as the reference or control amp of the group – I always compared each of the other amps to the Hornet. Why? Well, it’s a fantastic amp. It’s not quite perfect – it’s lone drawback, for me, is a slightly aggressive upper midrange/lower treble. But even this is sometimes more of a benefit than a liability. Otherwise, the Hornet is a world-class portable amplifier.

*Build Quality:* A: Excellent, attractive metal case. Solid jacks. There is a zero turn-on thump. Battery access is kind of difficult, but there IS a battery charging circuit, so I was not likely to remove the battery. The amp comes with a charger. The amp exhibits zero noise at all, and I mean zero. Dead quiet. Best of the bunch in that regard. Has a gain selector switch.
*Treble:* A: clean, grain-free, extended and transparent. No excess sibilance or bite, but ever so slightly forward lower treble.).
*Midrange:* A-: smooth, clean, and open – again just that little but of upper-midrange emphasis prevents a perfect score, but really this isn’t a big deal.
*Bass:* A+: powerful, deep, tight, punchy – awe inspiring, actually. Bass performance I thought only home amps and their much bigger power supplies could really provide. The Hornet is unparalleled in this regard. Jaw dropping bass performance, which never ceases to amaze me, even after having owned this amp quite a while.
*Neutrality:* A-: slight lower-mid/upper treble emphasis again prevents a perfect shore here – very neutral otherwise.
*Soundstaging:* A-: excellent depth and very good width – I sometimes wish the soundstage were just that one notch wider.
*Transparency:* A: Among the very best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music, like the Headphonia, Tomahawk, and the PRII.

 Overall, the Hornet is an amazing sounding amp, and the one I recommend to people the most often and with the least hesitation. The PRII may exceed it slightly in some performance aspects, but both PRII itself and its maker are sufficiently idiosyncratic that I am hesitant to recommend people pay the $125 extra for the PRII than the Hornet. Ray Samuels is among the very best in the business at customer service, and the Hornet, in addition to being a terrific amp, is tough as nails. It ends up coming in second in this round-up, but I recommend it first.

*> Little Dot Micro+*

 Info: Little-Tube

 This is the second least expensive amp in the group, and for the $60 price has a built in Li-Ion battery and comes with a charger! Quite the bargain. No other features. Unfortunately, it’s the worst sounding and noisiest amp of the bunch.

*Build Quality:* B+: Nice metal case, but the volume knob is cheesy, and the jacks are a little tough to jet plugs in and out of for some non-obvious reason. There is no real turn-on thump, but the volume control makes noise when adjusted, and the amp in general is noisy. There is an audibly hiss at all levels that increases with volume, and at the top of the range (which admittedly is unlikely to be used) there is a high-pitched whine that’s audible..
*Treble:* B-: grainy and veiled compared to the better amps here, lacks air and extension – not too transparent.
*Midrange:* B+: generally smooth sound here, pleasant presentation, without the last word in cleanliness or openness.
*Bass:* B: decent impact and quantity, but loose and lacking definition and depth.
*Neutrality:* B: not extended, slightly spitty lower treble, slightly dark mids, missing deep bass.
*Soundstaging:* B-: closed-in sounding – the most of any of the amps here.
*Transparency:* B-: colored enough that it completely lacks that feeling of having an open window to the music. There is a serious veil in between the listener and the music.

 The issue with the LDM+ is that the even less expensive Xenos 0HA blows it away, so I can’t even say “sounds good for the money”. I find the LDM+ impossible to recommend even at the price.

*> Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II*

 Info: larocco pocket reference II

 In some ways, it’s a stretch to call this a portable amp, except that it does run on batteries, and I do use it as a portable amp. But it’s HUGE compared to the rest of the amps here – and heavy. It’s more than twice the size of my 80GB iPod. And it uses a ¼ inch headphone jack – not really a “portable” amp plus. It’s also drop-dead gorgeous – almost audio art. And sonically, except for one important idiosyncrasy, it’s phenomenal. But let’s deal with that idiosyncrasy now – the PRII isn’t dead quiet with any headphones, but it can be too noisy to be useful with very low impedance headphones like the Shure E500. To use the E500 with the PRII I have to use an Oehlbeck 120 ohm adapter, at which point the system is quiet. With headphones that are safely over 120 ohms, it’s pretty quiet, although not as quiet at the RSA Hornet.

 That aside, however, the PRII is a phenomenal sounding amp – like the Hornet, it constantly amazes and delights me with its sound quality, which is surely on par with many home amps.

*Build Quality:* A+: Excellent, attractive metal case. Solid jacks. There is a zero turn-on thump. Can’t assess the battery access since the batteries were pre-installed and there is a battery charging circuit, so I have never removed the batteries. The amp does not come with a charger, and it should. Feature-wise in addition to the charging circuit there is an incredibly well implemented, if subtle, bass boost feature which operated only on the very low bass, but does improve deep bass performance while adding zero coloration.
*Treble:* A+: clean, sweet, lush, grain-free, extended and transparent. Great air and extension, totally natural. The gold standard.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open – and liquid, while being tonally dead neutral. Again, reference is deserved here.
*Bass:* A: Ultra-deep and powerful, with amazing definition and speed. Good impact, but not quite as punchy as the Hornet.
*Neutrality:* A+: unquestionably the most sonically neutral across the entire frequency spectrum of any of the amps I reviewed. Unparalleled in this regard.
*Soundstaging:* A-: excellent depth and very good width – I sometimes wish the soundstage were just that one notch wider.
*Transparency:* A: Among the very best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music, like the Headphonia, Tomahawk, and the Hornet.

 So the PRII is an awesome amp, to be sure. It’s big and heavy for a portable amp, is expensive, and doesn’t work with every headphone perfectly. But it sounds OOOOOOHHHH so good with the right headphone. It’s dreamy. I’m glad I own one.

 **** UPDATE 2/20/07: I got my PRII mk 2 last week. It was a 3 month wait, and was kind of angst-ridden, but I have it. And it is awesome, no doubt about it. While I do not have the original PRII to compare it to, it easily betters every portable amp I currently have. There is no doubt that the PRII mk 2 is still the king of the hill, as far as I am concerned. If anything, I'd upgrade the soundstaging to an A, and also note that in low gain mode only my E500's hiss. The PRII is still not a good choice for IEM users. But otherwise - it's the best portable amp I have ever heard.

 That said, Larocco Audio is horribly frustrating to deal with, and there is *real* reason to avoid doing business with them. Their communication is terrible, and the wait for getting a product you buy from them is maddening, and exacerbated by the lack of communication. As such, while I love the sound of the PRII mk 2, I find it very hard to recommend to anyone, based on the poor business methods employed at Larocco Audio. DO NOT buy one of these from Larocco Audio until you have done some research on this site to fully understand the situation.

*> Ray Samuels Audio Tomahawk*

 Of course, the main “features” of the Tomahawk are size (or lack thereof), and the crazy-long battery life. It really defines portable amp from that perspective – by far the smallest amp here – by far. But it sure doesn’t deliver the smallest sound.

*Build Quality:* A: Excellent, attractive metal case. Like the Hornet, the amp exhibits zero noise at all, and I mean zero. Dead quiet – a major plus. Has a gain selector switch.
*Treble:* A-: clean, grain-free, extended and transparent. Lacks the last little bit of treble air that the Hornet and PRII have, but it also lacks the slightly forward character of the Hornet’s treble, and in some ways I preferred the Tomahawk’s treble presentation to the Hornet’s.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open – the Tomahawk’s wide open mids definitely give you that “holy poop this sounds good” feeling. The mids are really wonderful in this mini-mite.
*Bass:* A-: lighter that the Hornet’s bass, even after extensive break-in. Similar in quality and quantity to the Headphonia. Deep, tight, and well defined, but not as powerful as it could be. Maybe this is where the tininess of the amp has some impact? Still, bass performance is very good.
*Neutrality:* A-: except as noted above, remarkably neutral amp.
 Soundstaging: A-: very good depth and width. Nothing spectacular, but very solid.
*Transparency:* A: Right up there with the best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music, like the Headphonia, Hornet, and the PRII.

 The Tomahawk is capable of driving all kinds of headphones in spite of being designed for IEMs. But since it was, I did spend a little extra time listening to the TH with the Shure E500’s, and that is an excellent combination. I’m pretty sure from now on, when I travel (which is 2-3 times a month), I will be bringing the PRII and the Tomahawk with me.

*> Practical Devices XM4*

 Info: Practical Devices Corporation

 The Practical Devices XM4 is medium sized – bigger than a Hornet but smaller than a Go-Vibe. It’s feature rich – defeatable AND adjustable crossfeed, defeatable battery charger, defeatable bass boost. That’s a lot of features in a $130 amp.

*Build Quality:* B+: Nice metal case. Jacks were a little loose but this had no audible consequence.
*Treble:* B+: some veil and grain, and the low treble is a little spitty. Lacks ultimate air and extension. Not bad, but not great.
*Midrange:* A-: pleasant sounding, warm and lush, maybe just a bit forward.
*Bass: *A: Deep, tight, powerful, and well defined – even without the bass boost! Excellent bass performance.
*Neutrality:* A-: except as noted above, generally neutral amp but a little warm.
*Soundstaging:* A-: Very good, and with crossfeed truly excellent.
*Transparency:* A: Right up there with the best in THIS regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music, like the Headphonia, Hornet, and the PRII.

 The XM4 is really a fun listen. It lacks that OVERALL “WOW” factor that the best amps have, but it’s a very enjoyable amp, with no major faults that detract from its overall performance. Price versus performance and features also make it right up there with the Headphonia for bargains.

*> T+D Dreamwork Xtra X-1*

 Well, this amp, unfortunately, fell out of the review. I had included it in the informal review sessions, but when I started the formal review, the amp stopped working. It makes noise and does not play music. I contacted the Ebay seller who immediately offered to replace it, so I will be doing that, but it really can’t be included in this review or ranked. I will say that I found the amp pleasant to listen to, but distinctly warm and not all that neutral. Pleasant, but not transparent enough for my tastes. But anyway, that really is all I can say since who knows if the one I bought ever worked correctly.

*UPDATE 1/24/07:*

 After several weeks of turn-around time (mostly shipping related), my X-1 is back. The new one works fine. After a little break in, it sounds the same as the first one, if memory serves me. In any case, here are my thoughts on it:

*Build Quality:* B+: Nice metal case. In general the build quality is good, and if my first sample hadn't failed, then I'd give it an A-. Only a small turn-on/off thump, and very little hiss.
*Treble:* B+: some veil and grain, and the low treble is a little spitty. Lacks air and extension. I'd describe the treble as "dark". Not bad, but not great.
*Midrange:* A-: pleasant sounding, VERY warm and lush - almost fat. Has a tube-like sonic quality. This is the main signature of this amp - you'll either love it or hate it...it's not strictly accurate.
*Bass: *A-: Deep, and powerful, and reasonably well defined – a bit fat on the upper bass.
*Neutrality:* B: I don't think that this is a neutral amp. It sounds very pleasant, but it's not neutral.
*Soundstaging:* A-: Good mix of depth and width. Nice in general.
*Transparency:* B+: The sonic signature of the amp is nice but really doesn't give a completely transparent presentation

 This amp provides good value for the money, and has a sonic signature some will love.

*UPDATE 2/2/07:*

 I am adding some amps that I have purchased (and in one case was loaned by another head-fier)/ These amps are the Xenos 1-HA-EPC, the iBasso P1, and the Headamp AE-1.

*> Xenos 1HA-EPC*

 Info: http://www.aptecpro.com/products.html

 The 1HA-EPC is large and heavy for a portable amp - right up there with the PRII in size. It has a built in rechargeable battery, a gain switch, and a nice crossfeed circuit. My EPC version is the higher-end of the 2 1HA's, with discrete output devices

*Build Quality:* A-: Nice metal case. Not designed for glitz, but superb construction.
*Treble:* A-: Open and transparent. Lacks ultimate air and extension, but only a little. Plenty of detail. Smooth and inviting.
*Midrange:* A-: pleasant sounding, warm and lush, transparent, smooth, and again, inviting.
*Bass: *A: Deep, tight, powerful, and well defined - no doubt a strong suit. Excellent bass performance.
*Neutrality:* A-: except as noted above, generally neutral amp but the tiniest bit dark.
*Soundstaging:* A: Very good, and with crossfeed truly excellent.
*Transparency:* A: Right up there with the best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music, like the Headphonia, Hornet, and the PRII.

 The Xenos is a terrific amp. I am totally entralled with its sound. It's a tiny bit dark or mellow, but not overly so, and it has just a wonderfully engaging sound. And certainly has that "wow" threshold. GREAT value too - among the best I have heard, it's alongside the Headphonia as the least expensive in that category.

 I have a very hard time deciding whether the 1HA is better than the RSA Tomahawk or not. Both are truly excellent. The TH is a little more exciting, but the 1HA is a little more engaging - "cozier" if you will than the TH, which is a little brighter. In the end, I have spent considerable time swithcing between the two, and they are different enough, I have decided to rank them evenly.

*> iBasso P-1*

 (No current website)

 The iBasso P-1 is a medium sized portable amp - the same size as the Headphonia, but in a MUCH nicer metal case with a glossy finish. It's very classy looking - among the nicest. It has built in rechargeable batteries with a charge indicator around back, but it's featureless otherwise. It comes with a wonderful interconnect that could probably be sold for half of the amps $99 asking price.

*Build Quality:* A: Very attractive and solidly built - top shelf.
*Treble:* B+ : A little bit brittle - slightly grainy - a touch of edge. But good extension and decent top-end air.
*Midrange:* A-: a little bit too forward sounding on occasion, but generally clean and open. Certainly good performance.
*Bass: * B+: A tiny bit unrefined, and not top shelf power. But generally good bass performance, with decent punch.
*Neutrality:* A-: except as noted above, generally neutral amp but the tiniest bit dark.
*Soundstaging:* B+: decently deep, nicely wide - good overall.
*Transparency:* B+: It's not as open sounding as I like - it's a bit veiled overall compared to the better amps.

 The iBasso is a very good value for the money. It's a nice sounding amp. It doesn't challenge the very best, but it overall really provides an enjoyable experience for the small $99 asking price. Easy to recommend at this price.

*> Headamp AE-1*

HeadAmp - Audio Electronics (Portable Headphone Amplifiers)

 Another head-fier was kind enough to offer to send me his AE-1 to listen to. I have no idea if it represents current production or not, but the AE-1 is a current amp from Headamp. It's incredibly nice to look at - very well built. It's the same size as the iBasso or Headphonia. Built in rechargeable battery, and has RCA inputs on back in addition to the mini-jack input on the front.

*Build Quality:* A: Very attractive and solidly built - maybe only exceeded by the PRII.
*Treble:* A-: Smooth, silky, open, clean, and detailed. But only good extension and missing the very top-end.
*Midrange:* A-: Smooth and open sounding. Very open, even, and inviting, never aggressive. Lush.
*Bass: * B+: Tightwell defined, with decent punch. But a little too lean for my tastes.
*Neutrality:* A-: excellent from 100Hz to 8kHz or so, but a little rolled off at the extremes.
*Soundstaging:* A-: Great width, decent depth. Very convincing image.
*Transparency:* A-: Open sounding to be sure. Not veiled. Not THE best, but up there.

 The AE-1 is a very good sounding amp. It's incredibly well built. But it's not as good as the Xenos 1HA, and maybe on par with the Headphonia sonically, which are both less expensive (although it's nicer to look at). It certainly is in that category of amps that produces a "WOW" listening factor.

 A couple more photos:












*> Portaphile V2^2*

orderingb

 I was asked to review a fully-burned in Portaphile V2^2 by its maker. So I did.

*Build Quality:* A-: It’s an attractive, well built amp. I’m not wild about the toggle on/off switch, or the length of the volume knob, but it’s still a solid amp. Slight turn on “click”.
*Treble:* A-: Smooth, open, clear, and reasonably detailed. But just a touch laid back/soft, and missing the very top-end extension.
*Midrange:* B+: Slightly dry. Clean, but dry. The RSA TH was notably lusher.
*Bass: * A: Punchy, deep, powerful. Good definition. A strong suit. A real bass-lover’s amp. Only the Hornet, PRII mk 2, and Xenos 1HA are better.
*Neutrality:* B+: Decent, but sort of downward-sloping response, which isn’t strictly neutral.
*Soundstaging:* B+: very good width, fair depth. Not a limitation but not a strength either..
*Transparency:* B+: No real grain, but just not that clear, open window on the sound that the better amps have. Close, but not quite.

 The V2^2 is a competent amp, and it sounds good. But it wasn’t for me as good as either the Headphonia or the Xenos 1HA, which are in its price class. So for me, that makes the Portaphile, which is a basic amp with no real “features”, kind of a tough sell.

 UPDATE 3/30/07: I now have more than 400 hours on the Portaphile. It has improved some, no doubt. It's a very good amp. I still prefer the Xenos 1HA-EPC, but I prefer the Portaphile to many other amps, and especially recommend it to people who want some real bass punch. After 400 hours the treble is improved, and if anything, the bass is even better! Its really a very good amp. I didn't move it in rank, as I still feel it is where it belongs in the ranking, but I feel better about recommending it, for those who have the patience to break it in for 400 hours!


*> Xenos 0HA-REP*

http://www.aptecpro.com/Xenos-Prod/X...ntro-page.html

 I was asked by ATP Systems to review the newer 0HA-REP. So I did. It looks the same, but is a different amp internally in many ways I am told, and now has a battery charging feature, a feature that I essentially demand from a portable amp.

*Build Quality:* B+: No amp made of plastic gets more than a B+ from me, but it’s an attractive, well built amp. Slight turn on “thump”. Hiss becomes noticeable at 12:00 on the volume control – this isn’t a very quiet amp.
*Treble:* B: Slightly edgy, overemphasized, and “spitty” Somewhat grainy.
*Midrange:* B+: Decent performance here. Even. Not super engaging, but no real problems.
*Bass: * A-: Still this amp’s strong suit IMO – punchy, powerful, good definition.
*Neutrality:* B+: Would be better if the treble were smoother.
*Soundstaging:* B: Good depth, fair width. Again here, not a limitation but not a strength either.
*Transparency:* B-: A bit of grain, Sort of opaque sounding.

 The 0HA-REP is better than the original 0HA – I was able to compare them directly. And for a $99 amp, it’s good – bettered only by the iBasso P1 in that price class.


*> C&C Box V2*

 (no current website)

 This amp has a lot of features – a low frequency boost, a midrange boost, and some sort of soundfield enhancer. The C&C Box can, as a result, be made to have a variety of different sonic signatures. Unfortunately, none of them is really neutral, as we’ll see.

*Build Quality:* A-: Very nice metal case. The raised LED is a bit too close to the jacks for some plugs. Slight turn on thump. Slight turn on “thump”. Hiss becomes noticeable at 11:00 on the volume control – this isn’t a very quiet amp.
*Treble:* B-: Grainy and etched. Almost annoying.
*Midrange:* B-: It just doesn’t sound right – there is a nasally coloration when the “MF” switch is off, and when it’s on, the sound is way too strong in the lower mids. The use of the switch maybe compromised the design.
*Bass: * A-: A little muddy, but strong and punchy – good bass performance.
*Neutrality:* B-: None of the settings, including all flat, provided a neutral sound.
*Soundstaging:* B: Good depth, fair width. Decent performance.
*Transparency:* B-: It just isn’t very transparent.

 The C&C Box simply did not impress me. The ibasso P1 is much better for a little less money, and the Xenos 0HA-REP is better for the same money. Going from the C&C Box directly to the SR71 drove home the huge difference there is in the performance of portable amps. It was startling. Because you can really make the C&C Box have a variety of sounds using its switches, this amp will likely appeal to people who are looking for a certain “sound”. I am just not one of those people.


*> iBasso T1*

 (no current website)

 I was asked by the importer of this amp to review it. So I did. It’s stunningly small, and VERY attractive. The most retail-oriented headphone amp I have seen. It has 2 headphone outs, and a nice bass boost switch.

*Build Quality:* B+: Tiny. Pretty. Solid for the size. The switches are a little cheesy, though..
*Treble:* B+: Pretty amazingly clean. I was surprised. Not the most extended, but enjoyable.
*Midrange:* B+: Again, decent but not exceptional performance, but no real “problems”.
*Bass: * B+: Not the world’s most defined bass, but enjoyable.
*Neutrality:* A-: Pretty even sound. Remarkably so, actually.
*Soundstaging:* B: Just OK here..
*Transparency:* B+: No real grain. Surprisingly open.

 The iBasso T1 sounds incredible for the size – it’s smaller even than the RSA Tomahawk. And regardless of size, it sounds good for the money, although it’s been selling on EBay for the same price as the same company’s own P1, which is the better sounding amp. So you do give up some sound for packaging. Still, a nice little amp

*> Ray Samuels Audio SR71*

http://raysamuelsaudio.com/index2.html

 I had always been interested in this amp, so I finally broke down and bought one. I am glad I did. I don’t miss my Hornet anymore.

*Build Quality:* A: The best there is, physically. The Larocco PRII mk 2 may be a tiny bit prettier, but the SR71 is better built, and very attractive. It is slightly noisier than the Hornet, however – probably due to more gain. Also has a slight turn on thump, which the other RSA amps didn’t.
*Treble:* A: Smooth, extended, open, clean, and detailed. Truly excellent.
*Midrange:* A: Smooth and open sounding. Very open, even, and inviting, never aggressive. No glare at all – the Hornet had just a touch of upper midrange glare, the SR71 does not, making it the better amp in the mids IMO.
*Bass: * A-: Defined, full, and fairly robust, but slightly less of it than I’d ideally like, esp. versus the PRII mk 2 and the Xenos 1HA-EPC. But just a slight bit less.
*Neutrality:* A-: terrifically neutral except missing that one tiny bit of bass, and many people may actually prefer this bass balance.
*Soundstaging:* A: Great depth, excellent. Very convincing imaging – excellent performance here..
*Transparency:* A: Wide open, clear, engaging sound.

 The RSA SR71 _immediately_ impresses with that “WOW” factor. It’s a fantastic amp. It’s kind of big, and I wish it had a batter charger. But in comparing, it clearly betters the Tomahawk. I wish I still had the Hornet to compare directly, but if memory serves me, the SR71 is a tiny bit better everywhere other than the bass, and likely just a little better overall.


*Update 3/30/07*

*> Storm B-4*

 (No web site that I know of – in the USA can be purchased for $250 from EBay member jasmine_chine whi imports them, email zhounk@hotmail.com).

 I bought one of these from Jasmine_chine. I bought it direct, not via EBay, and it was a totally smooth transaction. This same EBay seller sells iBasso amps on EBay.

 Since this amp isn’t well known and there is no web site, you can look at the EBay ad for pics and specs Here

*Build Quality:* A-: It’s a very attractive, solid, well built amp. The volume control has a kind of scratchy feel to it, but it does not make audible noise through headphones when turned. I would give it a full A for build quality if not for that. Slight turn on “click”.
*Treble:* A-: The treble is very natural. There is just a hint of grain. I wouldn’t want any more treble energy, and with bright cans it might not be a great match. But in general the treble is extended and clean.
*Midrange:* A-: No one will confuse this for a tube amp, but the mids are open, clean, and natural. There is a very slight lack of transparency, but again performance is good.
*Bass: * A-: Not world class, but the bass is nonetheless very good. Good definition, speed, and clarity, and enough punch for everyone but the worst bass freaks.
*Neutrality:* A-: Very even sound – no real issues here..
*Soundstaging:* B+: Very good width, good depth. Again, not world-class, but better than most.
*Transparency:* B+: It doesn’t sound as open as the very best amps, but here again it is better than most. It isn’t as transparent as the RSA or Larocco amps, but its darned good.

 The Storm B4 is a very well built amp that sounds very good. It ranks up in the top half of the amps I have heard. I think it would be a no-brainer recommendation at $200. At $250 it’s a little tougher. I slightly prefer the sound of the Xenos 1HA-EPC, although it’s bigger and heavier than the Storm. I also like the RSA Tomahawk better sonically, but the Storm has a built-in Ni-MH battery and comes with a charger. So in the end, this is a very nice amp, but in a price range where the competition is very tough.

*UPDATE 4/14/07:*

*> Xin SuperMicro IV *

Xin's Cool Talk - New XIN amps with 4-channel technology

 I was asked to review a SuperMicroIV by Nfusion770. So I did.

 First of all, let’s talk about form factor. The SuperMicroIV looks like it was built into a piece of lego. It actually made me laugh. Its sound quality though, is no joke. It’s a seriously good amp.

*Build Quality:* B-: The nicest thing I can say about the build quality is it’s functional enough, I suppose. But this amp has ZERO style points. I doubt it would ever really be possible to break it, but you could easily move it wrong and have the lid and battery come flying out. It’s pretty hard to take the amp seriously based on its physical being. Sonically, however….
*Treble:* A: Smooth, open, clear, and detailed without being the least bit harsh or etched. Transparent, smooth, and neutral. Truly among the best. I was surprised.
*Midrange:* A: Smooth, open, and jaw-droppingly transparent. How does he do it? The mids are completely neutral. Impressive as hell.
*Bass: * A-: Punchy, deep, powerful. Good pitch , attach, and definition. Not the bassiest amp there is to be sure, but in no way lacking.
*Neutrality:* A: this amp is utterly neutral.
*Soundstaging:* A-: soundstage width is excellent, depth is just short of the best.
*Transparency:* A: Really amazingly transparent. Certainly feels like a wide-open window on the music. The WOW factor is there in spades.

 When you LOOK at the SuperMicro, you’d say “I paid $170 for this? What a rip off!”. But when you LISTEN to the SuperMicro, you’ll say “I can’t believe this thing was only $170”. It sounds that good.

 Buyer beware: Xin is a frustrating company to buy from. I have never, ever heard of someone who in the end didn’t get their amp, and Xin allows payment by credit card where he does not charge you until he ships, so he’s better than Larocco Audio in that respect. But based on my experience with the SuperMicroIV (and my prior experience with the SuperMacroIII and IV), I understand why people will put up with the wait. This is a great amp.


*> Xtra X-1 Pro*

 (No website that I am aware of; can be ordered from EBay seller Jasmine_Chine, which is where I bought mine)

 My experience with the original X-1 was mixed. I thought it sounded pretty good, but my first one failed. The second worked fine, and had a very definite character which I thought some would love and some might not.

 The X-1 Pro also has a specific character, but not the same as I recall the original X-1 having (although I did not have it around to compare directly with).

*Build Quality:* B+: Externally 100% identical to the original X-1, as best I can tell. Small; nice enough metal case. Aside from built in battery, zero features. AC charger requires adapter to be used in the US. Loud turn on pop, but the amp had ZERO hiss – very quiet.
*Treble:* A-: Smooth and grainless. On the edge of bright. But pretty transparent.
*Midrange:* B+: Very forward sounding mids. Transparent enough, but they will not suit every headphone. The Sennheiser HD25-1 was not a good match. However, it was a great match for the Beyer DT770, and in fact may be my new recommendation for DT770 users who want a portable amp that will bring the mids up a bit. Careful headphone matching will be key here.
*Bass: * B+: Maybe it’s the jacked up mids, but the bass seems a bit lacking in quantity. Bass quality was good, though, with, good definition.
*Neutrality:* B+: Would be better if the mids were less pronounced and the whole spectrum a bit smoother. But again, this will be great for some headphones.
*Soundstaging:* A-: excellent depth, good width. The soundstaging was convincing.
*Transparency:* B+: Basically transparent, although not among the very best here.

 The X-1 Pro is not the warm, fat sounding amp I found the original amp to be, but it’s not completely neutral, either. Its forward mids will excite and thrill some, and will be a good match with come headphones. With others it will make the sound too aggressive and painful. Careful headphone matching will be key.


*> C&C XO*

Headb.com: C&C XO portable headphone amplifier

 The new C&C amp, the XO, is drop-deap gorgeous. Mine is purple, and beautiful. It comes with a nice leather wrap, and a nice box. Top class all the way. This amp has a lot of features – a low frequency boost, a gain switch, an impedance switch, a soundfield enhancer. I preferred it greatly to the C&C Box V2 sonically was well, although it’s still not going to be everyone’s cup of tea.

*Build Quality:* A-: Very nice metal case. Very pretty. Slight turn on thump but no big deal. Not the beefiest thing in some ways, but elegant.
*Treble:* B+: Treble is smooth and silky. Lacks ultimate top end extension and air, though. Relaxed and non-fatiguing.
*Midrange:* A-: It’s very laid back and warm. Clean and smooth, and not at all forward. Maybe a little too much so, but it does have almost a tube-like charm.
*Bass: * A-: Strong and punchy – good bass performance. Good detail and attack.
*Neutrality:* B+: It isn’t really neutral, but it sure is pleasant. Warm and friendly. Invitingly relaxed sound, and was a very good match for the HD25-1’s.
*Soundstaging:* B+: Good depth, fair width. The soundfield processor was actually pretty effective, although it does have some impact on frequency response.
*Transparency:*B+-: Pretty transparent sound. Not among the very best, but not really an issue..

 The C&C XO is a very pretty looking, and very pretty sounding amp. It’s funny how much this amp’s sound matches its looks (versus the Xin where they are polar opposites). It’s also funny that it’s sort of the opposite sound of the new Xtra X-1 as well. The C&C Box V2 did not impress me. But I really like the XO. It’s very easy to recommend for a relaxed sounding, almost tubey amp, that will certainly attract compliments from anyone who sees it.

*Update 4/23/07*

*> Meier Audio Porta Corda III *

Kein Titel

 GreatDane was nice enough to lend me a Meier Porta Corda Mk III to review. The PCIII is large-ish for a portable amp – longer than a SR71, but a little shorter, and since it’s in a plastic case, it’s lighter than the SR71. I am not a fan of the PCIII’s industrial design – it isn’t going to win any beauty contests, that’s for sure. But I am not reviewing these things for looks, so how is the sound? In a word, great. It’s definitely in that top tier of amps that make me go “WOW this sounds good!”.

*Build Quality:* B+: Here again, the amp is functional and the case is solid enough, but it’s not pretty at all. Connectors are all above-average solid, though, so it gets some points back for that.
*Treble:* A: Treble is amazingly clear. Smooth, open, liquid, and detailed ZERO grain. Highly transparent, and neutral. Shares this with its big brother home amps. Great air. Maybe lacks that very last bit of extension that the Larocco amp has, though.
*Midrange:* A: Here again, very open, smooth grain-free, transparent sound. Talk about an open window to the music! This is the kind of midrange performance that we live for.
*Bass: * A-: Excels in pitch, attach, and definition. It doesn’t have quite the punch of an RSA amp in this regard, however.
*Neutrality:* A-: Neutral except for the very slight lack of bass weight.
*Soundstaging:* A-: soundstage width is excellent, depth is just short of the best. Image specificity is very good. A couple of times I actually turned my head to “listen” for a sound!
*Transparency:* A: This is a strong suit to be sure – Meier amps are jaw-droppingly transparent.

 So the PCIII is not just a great amp, but with it’s $160USD price, it’s an incredible value, and it has to be that it and the Xin SuperMicroIV are the two best VALUE portable amps I have ever heard. I cannot imagine better sound for less. If you can deal with the pedestrian looks, this amp rewards with way above price-class sound.

* Update 5-19-07*

*> Go-Vibe V6*

 Info: www.go-vibe-headphoneamp.com coming soon!

 I was leant a Go-Vibe 6 by very kind head-fier Goodsound. This version has the AD8620 op-amp. As such, I added the following to my review and update the rankings. This updated Go-Vibe is nicer looking and seems better built than the GV-5. It also sounds better! Quite a lot better. I wasn't impressed with the GV-5. The GV-6 sounds better, and I feel is a good deal for the money. It's not perfect, but what is?

*Build Quality*: A-: It’s got a nice black anodized Hammond metal case. Feels very solid. No turn on thump at all. Fairly quiet -the amp exhibits very little noise at all.
*Treble*: B+: I did not care for the GV5’s treble presentation at all. The GV-6 has a better treble, but it is still, IMO, the amp's weak point. The treble is a little grainy, and lacks air and extension. But it's a big improvement over the GV-5, and isn't too bad.
*Midrange*: B+: generally smooth and clean, much more forward than the GV-5. In fact, more forward than the Tomahawk! It's a somewhat forward midrange now. Not unpleasant though, and fairly open sounding, although not up there with the best.
*Bass:* B+: punchy sounding, but lacks deep bass power. Stronger mid-bass. Decent definition and attack.
*Neutrality:* B+: has a kind of tube-like sonic signature. Stronger lower treble than upper treble, slightly fat midrange and mid-bass, and not strong deep bass.
*Soundstaging:* B+: good depth, decent width. Not stellar, not bad.
*Transparency:* B+: Generally transparent except for the treble, where I felt it was a little murky. But decent.

 Hmmmm...all B+'s. Overall, the Go-Vibe 5 wasn’t my cup of tea, and while the GV-6 is much better, it still isn't 100% my cup of tea, although some will love it, since it's got a definite "sound" - again, one I feel is sort of like a tube amp. For me, the RSA Tomahawk and the Larocco PRII mk 2 which I directly comapred it to, are immediately noticably smoother and more open and transparent. But they are 3-5x the price of the GV-6! For the money, I think the GV-6 is an excellent amp. It's awesome you can get an amp this good for this amount of money. And while in this price range I prefer the iBasso P1, the GV-6 is far more tubey sounding than the iBasso, which will make it a better match for some headphone and head-fiers.



* Update 6-7-07*

*> mSeed Labs Spirit*

 Info: Spirit AMP Portable Headphone Amplifier with Blackgate and Class A Biasing

 I was leant a Spirit amp from MSeed labs by the manufacturer. See the above link for a full description, but this is a serious portable amp – Black Gate caps, JFET op amps biased into class A. I think the “plug in” board for use with an AC adapter is a little odd, but at least there is a way to use an AC adapter. No charging circuit though, which is a small bummer.

*Build Quality*: A-: It’s got a nice black anodized Hammond metal case. Jacks are very solid. No turn on thump at all. Fairly quiet -the amp exhibits very little noise at all.
*Treble*: A-: Treble is smooth, detailed, and uncolored. It was bright at first, but after break in for 200 hours it wasn’t. Excellent treble.
*Midrange*: B+: Open and enjoyable. Nice and neutral. Not lush or rich, but not thin. The very best amps are better, but the mids are enjoyable - not a liability.
*Bass:* B+: Great definition and depth. Not super-punchy and not the meatiest bass around, but very tight. Great pace and rhythm to the bass.
*Neutrality:* A-: Superbly neutral; only detraction is the ever so slightly lean bass. But this is NOT a colored sounding amp, as so many portable amps under $200 seem to be.
*Soundstaging:* B+: good depth, decent width. Good image specificity. Again, not the best ever, but not a liability.
*Transparency:* A-: Above average transparency. Excellent performance here.

 The Spirit is a VERY good amp, and for the money it’s outstanding. I really liked it - I was very impressed. It ranks in the upper tier of amps, and it represents good value. If it were in sexy case it could sell for $300, but let’s not tell mSeed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

*Update 7/9/07*

*> Meier Audio MOVE *

Kein Titel

 I have always liked Meier amps, so I was anxious to get my hands on a MOVE. My main beef with the Porta Corda was it's very DIY looks. It sounded very good (although I did find it slightly lean).

 After breaking in the MOVE for 100 hours, I listened to it a LOT before writing this - much more so than many other amps I have reviewed. I used a bunch of different headphones. Why? I wanted to be sure of what I was going to say, because there will be some people who are going to get their panties in a wad about this review.

 I think the Meier MOVE is a phenomenal headphone amp. Stunningly good. Better than any amp in this review aside from the Larocco PRII, and in some ways better than it. It combines a natural, warm sound with incredible detail, an outstanding soundstage, and very extended frequency extremes. It's also built like a tank, is very well featured, and is bargain priced. It's impossible not to recommend with great enthusiasm.

*Build Quality:* A: Awesome metal case. I'm certain it could survive being thrown against a wall at high velocity, although it's so pretty you wouldn't want to. I'd give it an A+ except for one thing - the volume knob, while attractive, is very difficult to grip, and thus hard to turn. It's my one complaint about this amp.
*Treble:* A+: Treble is amazingly clear. Smooth, open, liquid, and detailed ZERO grain. Highly transparent, and neutral. Very much like other Meier amps. Great extension and air. I doubt there has ever been a portable amp with better treble than this.
*Midrange:* A: Beautiful, wide open sound. Inviting, clean, open, and engaging. Grain-free. Just gorgeous.
*Bass: * A+: Excels in pitch, attach, and definition. Also punchy as heck. ZERO bloat or boom, but great weight.
*Neutrality:* A: There are simply no issues here - very, very impressive.
*Soundstaging:* A: soundstage width is excellent, depth is just short of the best. Image specificity is very good. The soundstage is top-shelf.
*Transparency:* A: This is a strong suit to be sure – all Meier amps I have ever heard are jaw-droppingly transparent, and the MOVE is no exception. I was prepared for it not to be, since there was some talk that the choice of op-amp wasn't going to mean a transparent sound. That isn't the case. It's very transparent.

 So now we have a terrific Meier portable amp that also looks nice. I preferred the sound in high current but low gain mode. Basically noiseless in this mode. Dynamic, lush, detailed - it's hard not to gush. I listened over and over again to it to be sure - I am sure. The MOVE is the best bargain in portable headphone amps right now on the market, based on all that I have heard.



*Update 7/16/07*

*> Headamp AE-2*

HeadAmp - Audio Electronics (Portable Headphone Amplifiers)

 Another head-fier was kind enough to offer to send me his AE-2 to listen to. Like the AE-1, it's incredibly nice to look at - very well built, and really beautiful. Really only the Larocco is as nice looking as the AE-2. Built in rechargeable battery, and has RCA inputs on back in addition to the mini-jack input on the front. I did not have the AE-1 to compare to it directly, and from memory I think it’s an improvement to what was already a very good amp.

*Build Quality:* A+: Outstanding build quality. Very attractive and solidly built - maybe only exceeded by the PRII.
*Treble:* A: Smooth, silky, open, clean, and detailed. . Much better than the AE-1 in this regard. On par with the Meier and RSA amps in this regard.
*Midrange:* A-: Smooth and open sounding. Very open, even, and inviting, never aggressive. Not as lush as the mids were on the AE-1 I’m pretty sure. .
*Bass: * B+: Tight, well defined, with decent punch. But a little too lean for my tastes. This just isn’t a bass-lover’s amp. The bass that is there is very good, but it lacks enough bass weight and authority IMO.
*Neutrality:* A-: The above lack of bass weight makes it just short of the best amps here – it’s sometimes just a little bright sounding without the bass foundation. But this is only when directly compared to the Meier or RSA amps.
*Soundstaging:* A: Excellent – very good, outstanding depth. Very convincing image – excellent specificity. .
*Transparency:* A-: Clean and smooth. Not *quite* at the same level as the Meier or RSA amps, but very close.

 The AE-2 is an excellent sounding amp. It's incredibly well built. It certainly is in that category of amps that produces a "WOW" listening factor. Plenty of gain – drove 250 and 600 ohm headphones without difficulty. You do get a built in rechargeable battery, and a charger, as well as nice looking amp. But it’s more expensive than several amps I think sound a little better. This means you have to really value the way it looks, or prefer an amp that has a littler less bass, to have the AE-2 make sense financially. Otherwise, I’d buy a Xin SuperMicro, Meier Move, Xenos 1HA, or RSA Tomahawk.

*> iBasso T2 *

Products


 I was asked by the importer of this amp to review it. So I did. It’s stunningly small, and VERY attractive. The most retail-oriented headphone amp I have seen. It has 2 headphone outs, and a bass boost switch, as well as a sort of a crossfeed switch. Built in rechargeable battery and charger. You get a lot for your money! And it and it’s brother the T1 are s the smallest portable amps around. Perfect mate for a iPod Nano for a super-small, super good portable rig.

*Build Quality:* B+: Like the T1, small and attractive, and pretty solid for the size. The switches are a little cheesy, though.
*Treble:* B+: Reasonably clean and detailed, but somewhat rolled off.
*Midrange:* B: A little cloudy and opaque sounding. Seems like the designer wanted a tube-like sound. A little nasally.
*Bass: * B+: Upper bass a little forward and deep bass is slightly lacking. Bass weight is very good.
*Neutrality:* B: Lacking a little in the frequency extremes, and a little goosed in the lower mids/upper bass.
*Soundstaging:* B+: Decent. Width is very good, depth is decent, image specificity is decent.
*Transparency:* B: No real grain. But the slightly cloudy mids detract a little.

 It seems that iBasso was looking for a different sound than the T1 offered. I no longer have the T1 around, but compared to the amps I do have around, the T2 isn’t really all that neutral sounding. It seems that they wanted to make it sound kind of like a tube amp, much like the C&C XO. This will appeal to lots of people, probably. And I’m sure my ranking is going to rankle some people who do seem to really like the T2’s sound. But it doesn’t really light my fire, I have to confess. I prefer a more neutral sounding amp. It does sound better with headphones that are slightly bright like the AT ES7. And for the size and cost, it’s a truly unique amp that will appeal to lots of people I’m sure.

*Update 8-5-07*

*> MicroShar uAmp107*

 Info: Microshar.com

 I was leant a Microshar uAmp107 by the manufacturer. See the above link for a full description. The “list” price of the amp is $135, but it seems to be on sale a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . It features an interesting turn-on function in that it powers itself on when both the input jack and headphones are connected. Sounds cool, except for the fairly loud click that occurs when it powers up, that you can only avoid by not having your headphones on/in.

 The amp’s built in battery lasts FOREVER – I never really did fully run it down, in spite of using it over 100 hours to break in the amp TWICE. Very cool. Comes with a charger.

*Build Quality*: B: sturdy but cheap-looking plastic case. The amp also has sone audible hiss at all volume levels with low-impedance headphones, even the 70-ohm HD25-1’s. And there’s that turn-on click.
*Treble*: B+: Treble is detailed, with a slight bite/edge, but it’s clean. Lacks the very top end extension, but what’s there isn’t overly-laid back, so it doesn’t seem closed-in.
*Midrange*: B+: Open and enjoyable. Nice and neutral. Slightly forward. It makes it seem exciting at first, but in the end I prefer the slightly lusher midrange of the Meier Move or the mSeed Spirit. However, the mids are very enjoyable on their own terms..
*Bass:* A-: Good definition and depth. Not the tightest ever, but nice and punchy. Very enjoyable bass.. Great pace and rhythm.
*Neutrality:* A-: Nicely neutral; only detraction is the ever so slightly forward mids. But this is NOT a colored sounding amp, as so many portable amps under $200 seem to be.
*Soundstaging:* A-: Very good depth, good width. Very good image specificity. Quite enjoyable SS presentation.
*Transparency:* B+: It loses points here for the hiss. Otherwise quite good..

 The uAmp is a very good amp. For $135, it’s tempting to recommend the mSeed Spirit instead, which I slightly prefer. But for the $85 that it’s currently listed as being available for on the Microshar website, it’s a ridiculous screaming bargain and everyone should go buy one to throw in their briefcase just for the wicked-long battery life! A very nice sounding little amp, that has a few rough spots, but whose overall performance hits way above it’s price class.

*Update 9-16-07*  [NOTE: the newer version Trian Audio L3 review is here ]

*Triad Audio Lisa III*

 Info: Welcome to TriadAudio.net

 Surprisingly to me, a lot of people have asked me to include the Lisa III in this review. This is in spite of several things:

 1. It's far more expensive than all but the Larocco PRII;
 2. It's big enough that it really stretches the limit of what can be considered a "portable", in spite of it being battery powered;
 3. I've already reviewed it here; and
 4. It should be pretty clear that it would be number one, taking the above into consideration.

 But nonetheless, I've been asked enough that I have decided to do it.

*Build Quality*: A-: Well built in a nice metal hammond case. Nice faceplate and knobs. LOVE having RCA jacks, but would have preferred hacing a mini-jack in parallel. Not quite quiet enough for IEM use without an impedance adapter. It should come with a power supply at this price, especially since it uses internal rechargeable batteries, and gets a modest 5-6 hours on a single charge.
*Treble*: A+: Oh, those highs. SOOOO very clean, extended, airy, sweet, detailed...the treble is so much better than most portable amps. Only RSA amps, Meier Move and the PRII are in the same league. And I'd say the extension and airiness is even better on the LisaIII than any of these. Not night-and-day better, mind you, but better..
*Midrange*: A+: The midrange is open, lush, inviting, and very transparent. It's not the least bit too aggressive, but it isn't at all recessed either. I guess that makes it neutral, but not in a sterile way - it's "good neutral". If anything, perhaps it's just a touch warm. That's a good way to be.
*Bass:* A+: The bass is of course quite tailorable in terms of quantity, due to the bass countour knob, but the quality is excellent - it's well defined, tight, and has good "speed" of attack. And it's as deep as your headphones can muster, to be sure. And that control knob means you can have as much of it as you want. For my Denon D5000's it was best left off. For Sennheiser HD580's, though, I liked the bass control at about 1/3 "on".. Great pace and rhythm.
*Neutrality:* A+: Supurbly neutral, but not analytical or cold. Just plain old not colored.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage is also exceptionally good -- nicely deep, wide, and fleshed out. It isn't light years ahead of other amps here, but it's still great.
*Transparency:* A+: I do not hear any way in which the Lisa III isn't transparent. WIDE open window to the music.

 OK, so it's great. Really. If you can accommodate it's size and weight, can live with 5-6 hours run time between charges (this will be improved in future versions to 10 hours I hear), and can afford it's asking price, it's a no brainer. Those are some significant ifs when it comes to a portable amp, but if you are concerned solely with sound, the Lisa III is the way to go, no doubt.

*Update 10-5-07*

*Leckerton Audio UHA-3*

 Info: 

 The UHA-3 was loaned to me by it's maker, at my request. It's got a USB DAC, which I will comment on elsewhere, but which I will say here works very well and sounds very similar to the analog input performance which I detail here.

*Build Quality*: A: Well built in a nice metal hammond case. Nice faceplate and knobs. Batteries recharge with the USB connection, very nice way to go! Power switch on the rear, separate from the volume knob is also very nice IMO. Well built little amp..
*Treble*: A-: Nice, sweet, grainless, and clean, but slightly laid back. Lacks ultimate air and extension, but still very enjoyable. This may be what makes the soundstage seem slightly small, though.
*Midrange*: A-: The midrange is open, lush, inviting, and nicely transparent, although not quite as much so as the top amps here. It's not the least bit too aggressive, but it is just a tad warm of neutral. Still, here again, very enjoyable presentation.
*Bass:* A+: Bass lover's amp to be sure. Great impact, depth, punch, and definition. Really enjoyed this part of the presentation.
*Neutrality:* A-: Slightly warmish sound. More so even than the Meier Move, but not so much that the amp sounds colored, just a tad mellow.
*Soundstaging:* B+: The soundstage is slightly small feeling. Instrument placement and image specificity is good, but it seems like the stage is a little too shallow and a little lacking in width. Still, not bad, and not a fatal flaw at all.
*Transparency:* A-: Loses just a little for a slight hiss that is present at any volume level, but in general, an open, transparent sound that's very enjoyable.

 The battery lasted me over 24 hours on a single charge. The UHA has a lot of nice features, and it sounds VERY good. It's easily worth the asking price, and belongs in the top tier of portable amps. I was really impressed. The quality of current portable amp offerings is stunningly strong, and the UHA-3 is no exception. Nice job to Leckerton Audio.

*Update 10/28/07*




*Visely HEA-1*
 Info: [url=http://www.visely.com;]http://www.visely.com; price $135

 The HEA-1 was sent to me by its maker, who asked me to review it. Best I can tell, it’s available for sale only on EBay. It’s made in China.

*Build Quality*: A: The chassis is a very attractive metal case with a nice faceplate, although it is narrower and taller than some, and as such, mates best with a 1/2G Nano in portable use. Built in battery charging for 9V battery. Run time was decent, about 20 hours per charge. Nice and quiet as well. Well built and attractive amp.
*Treble*: A: Best part of the amp’s performance. Smooth, detailed, clean, non-fatiguing treble performance. Airy and extended. Really nice treble.
*Midrange*: A-: A touch of grain slightly sours an otherwise very enjoyable midband. Not edgy or harsh – maybe even laid-back just a tad too much.
*Bass:* B+: Good bass performance, but not great. Lacks weight and depth compared to the best here. Would not be a match for headphones that also lack bass depth and weight. The rest of the response is smooth enough that the amp doesn’t come off as bright, but better bass would be nice.
*Neutrality:* A-: Slightly light sound takes a little away from what is generally very good performance here.
*Soundstaging:* B+: The soundstage is slightly small feeling. Instrument placement and image specificity is good, but it seems like the stage is a little too shallow and a little lacking in width. Good, but not great compared to many other amps.
*Transparency:* B+: Loses just a little for the touch of grain in the midband. Otherwise actually quite good. I think classical music lovers would LOVE this amp.

 So the HEA-1 is a nice amp, no doubt. Since it’s under $140, it’s not got a lot of competition in its price range, and I think it compares well with amps in that range in general. But it’s not a world-beater, and unless it becomes easier to get, it’s going to have a hard time attracting a following.

*MiniBox –E*
 Info: Head-Direct.com price $149

 The Mini-Box E was leant to me by Head-Direct, Head-fi sponsor and distributor of this amp. I don’t know where it’s made, but I assume China. Lots of nice features on this amp – bass boost, impedance adjust, soundfield processing of some sort – none of which I used for the review of course.

*Build Quality*: A: The chassis is a very attractive metal case with a nice faceplate, and it’s nice and small. Built in Li-Ion battery. DEAD quiet operation – totally silent even with the volume at max. Nice. Well built and solid, although I don’t think anyone would describe it as pretty. LOVE the flywheel volume control though.
*Treble*: A-: Treble is detailed and smooth, but lacks some degree of extension and air, which can make it feel just slightly closed in.
*Midrange*: A-: A tiny bit laid back, but generally clean and enjoyable. A touch on the warm side of neutral. Generally excellent though.
*Bass:* A-: Good bass performance, but not great. Lacks a tiny bit of weight and depth compared to the best here, but still very good. Well balanced and punchy.
*Neutrality:* A: Very neutral except for slightly lacking at the frequency extremes. But balance is this amp’s strongest trait.
*Soundstaging:* A-: Width and depth very good but short of the very best. Imaging is very good as well.
*Transparency:* A-: There is just a very slight veil that prevents a higher score here. It’s very good but not equal to the very best.

 Probably the very best trait of the MiniBox is that it is very balanced sounding. It’s got no real weaknesses, although it does fall short of the best in several areas. For the money it’s quite good and highly recommendable for the piece.

*Go-Vibe 7*

 No current website

 A fellow head-fier leant me the Go-Vibe 7 to listen to. I didn’t plan to review it at first since it was going to be so limited in production, but since the amp will be continued to be produced by another company, I went ahead and did it. And I am glad I did – it’s the best Go-Vibe amp BY FAR.

*Build Quality*: B+: The chassis is a very plain Hammond case, and the battery rattles around in it. It also hisses at medium to high volume levels, but not enough to really be bothersome. It’s as plain-looking as headphone amps come, but sturdy enough.
*Treble*: A+: Treble is, in a word, outstanding. Delicate, airy, detailed, extended, smooth – just outstanding. I was shocked.
*Midrange*: A-: A tiny bit forward, and at times a little congested, but generally clean and enjoyable. The mids were very good but not world-beating.
*Bass:* A-: Good bass performance, just a tad on the light side. Lacks a tiny bit of weight and depth compared to the best here, but still very good. Well balanced and tight with good definition.
*Neutrality:* A-: Very neutral except for slightly tilted-up response from bottom to top..
*Soundstaging:* A: Wide, deep, and well defined. Impressive. Highly enjoyable.
*Transparency:* A-: The slight midrange congestion is the only limiting factor, but don’t read too much into that – it’s a nicely transparent amp.

 So the last Go Vibe is the best, and it’s really good. I hope it stays in production a long time – it deserves to be!

*Update 12-5-07*

*> Qables iQube* (Applies to V1 and V2, which have the same amp section - V2 just adds a DAC)

 Info: i-Qube - A new dimension in portable hi-fi » home

 The iQube is a very interesting amp. It's a class D amplifier topology. This is the first of its kind as far as I know - a class D portable headphone amp. Class D has at least the potential of being more battery-efficient, and I did get almost 100 hours of play on the first set of AAA alkalines I had in it (which I used up in 100 hours of break in). The iQube will charge rechargeables, but it doesn't come with them, nor does it come with a charger, although it has a fairly wide tolerance for AC adapters it would seem.

*Build Quality:* A+: Excellent, VERY attractive metal case. I wasn't sure at first about having the jack on the back and the volume control on the front, but I loved it in the end. There is a very slight turn-on tick. But overall, the build quality is among the very, very best, and it's the kind of thing that gives great pride of ownership.
*Treble:* A+: clean, clear, grain-free, extended and transparent. Great air and extension, and very natural. It wasn't too aggressive ever, but it wasn't at all soft or rolled off. I wouldn't use it with super-bright headphones. But this really isn't the iQube doing anything other than being VERY neutral.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open - with amazing see-through type clarity, while being tonally very neutral. There is perhaps just a touch of reticence, but not enough to worry about.
*Bass:* A: Ultra-deep and powerful, with excellent definition and speed. VERY tight, but not overly generous. Again, Neutral comes to mind.
*Neutrality:* A+: The new king of Neutrality. Over and over again that's how I thought of it. Easily shows the difference between headphones in a flash. Only the LISA III is in the same league here. While I still love the Meier Move, it has a "sound" moreso than the iQube.
*Soundstaging:* A-: The soundstage was great, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. Still, nothing to sneeze at.
*Transparency:* A: Nothing to take issue with here either. Try as I might to pick up some kind of issue with transparency related to the use of class D, I couldn't. I just loved it.

 I have to say, I was HIGHLY impressed by the iQube. Unfortunately for those in the USA, the current dollar>Euro exchange rate makes the iQube pretty expensive -- as of today, it would cost the American buyer over $460, and January 1 it will cost about $500 (at current exchange rates). And as good as it is, I personally don't think it's enough better than the other top amps to easily justify that price here. I know there is nothing Hans at Qables can do about his costs, or the dollar to euro exchange rate, but it is a pity. If this amp could be had in the US for $335, it would be very easy to recommend as the best buy in high-end headphone amps. But it's $335 EUROS. So for everyone in Europe, this is a great amp to get. For those in the US, I think it requires a little more thought. Nonetheless, it's a superlative headphone amp.




*Update 1-11-08*

*> Headamp Pico*

 Info: 

 I received a loaner of the Headamp Pico from a friend of mine. There was so much interest in this amp, I really wanted to get a chance to listen to one. And I’m not sure of I am glad I did – it’s so good, I now want to buy one! But I need another portable amp like I need a hole in my head.

 I listened to the Pico for several hours straight, by itself, and then directly compared it to the iQube and the Meier Move. The Pico had been broken in prior to my receiving it.

*Build Quality:* A+: What a beauty! Glossy finished metal case, mine in a sort of rust-copper color. By far the prettiest portable headphone amp I have ever seen. Also small and sturdy. TOTALLY quiet operation. Zero turn-on tick. Truly impressive to look at, and it’s the kind of thing that you just WANT when you see it.
*Treble:* A: clean, delicate, smooth, grain-free, extended and transparent. Perhaps just ever so slightly less top end extension than the LISA or the iQube, but its treble is a DELIGHT. It sounds RIGHT. Never even a HINT of aggressiveness.
*Midrange:* A+: All I can say here is WOW. The best midrange of any portable headphone amp I have ever heard. I am listening to it now, and just describing it gives me goose-bumps. THIS is tube-like lushness with no opaqueness at all, Yeah, it’s just warm of neutral, but who cares? I could listen to this midrange for the rest of my life and be very happy with it. NICE. If you care about vocal reproduction, especially female vocals, THIS is the portable headphone amp for you. Listening to Kate Havnevik and Imogen Heap on the Pico was an unbelievable treat.
*Bass:* A: Tuneful, punchy bass. Certainly plenty deep enough. There are amps with slightly more powerful bass, but not by a lot, and the bass quality is excellent. The bass on Tristania’s “World of Glass” was very punchy, but not quite as deep as I get from the iQube.
*Neutrality:* A: Hmmmm…what to say here. I know the Pico isn’t strictly tonally neutral, but it doesn’t sound colored – it’s just slightly warm/lush. But again, not in a way some amps are that make them sound colored – the Pico sounds like its playing music correctly, so it’s hard to fault its presentation.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY deep, and very well defined, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. That said, the Pico has excellent imaging capabilities – ever so slightly better than the iQube or Meier Move (which I was able to directly compare it to).
*Transparency:* A: Again, the magic of the Pico is the fact that it’s slightly lush sounding, but still remains highly transparent. This is no easy trick, and many lesser amps have tried this and failed. The Pico pulls it off, and extremely well. Very impressive to me.

 What a time we are in – SO many world class portable headphone amps, it’s crazy. The Pico is a huge winner, though. As an FYI, I reviewed the AMP ONLY version, so please don’t ask me how the DAC sounds  I confess I have not been very active reading about the launch of this amp, and I am not sure what the exact production situation with the amp is, in terms of its being readily available. I do know that it sounds fantastic, and combined with its world-class aesthetic design, make it an amp worth seeking out!




*Update 1-22-08*

*> Xin Reference*

 Info: [url=http://www.fixup.net/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2289]http://www.fixup.net/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2289

 I received a loaner of the Xin Reference from another generous head-fier. There has been so much talk about this amp, I really wanted to get a chance to listen to one. I have owned Xin amps in the past, and have always been impressed.

 I listened to the Reference for several hours straight, by itself, and then directly compared it to the iQube and the Meier Move. The Reference had been broken in prior to my receiving it.

*Build Quality:* A: Incredibly solid build quality, with absolutely no nod given to making it pretty. Build like a tank, and looks like one too. I have always wished the Xin knobs were shorter. No turn on thump though, and zero hiss even at full volume. Nice.
*Treble:* A: smooth, clean, unfatiguing treble, with good detail and extension. Lacks the last little bit of extension and air that the iQube has. Treble performance on par with the Meier Move. Treble was nicely neutral – the difference in the treble presentation of different headphones was easily apparent.
*Midrange:* A-: Maybe this just a letdown from the outstanding midrange of the Pico, but I felt the Reference’s mids were a little cloudy or opaque. There was a little bit of liquidity missing. This is only in relationship to the very best, but I feel the midrange performance of the Meier Move and the iQube were slightly, but noticeably better than that of the Reference. It’s enough of a coloration that it was apparent with different headphones. This is NOT the high-end amp to buy for lovers of solo piano, jazz quartets, or female vocals.
*Bass:* A+: Tuneful, punchy bass. Excellent depth, and nice and tight. No bloat. Really nothing to quibble with here. Listening to “Living Together” by Circa Survive, the bass drum impact was palpable. Very nice. Maybe the amps strongsuit?
*Neutrality:* A: Generally neutral, except for the slight coloration in the midrange. But otherwise very neutral.
*Soundstaging:* A+: Also a strong suit. The soundstage is deep, wide, and well-defined. There is no “Xinfeed” here, but the amp manages to push the soundstage outside the head in a way the majority of amps do not manage. Excellent.
*Transparency:* A-: I felt the Xin was behind the best headphone amps in terms of transparency due to the very slight opaque quality of the mids. This is something that someone buying the amp with nothing to compare it to would likely not notice, but compared to the Moce and iQube, it’s there, and IMO it detracts slightly from the otherwise excellent sound. I wanted female vocals to have a little more sense of presence and reality than they did.

 So, what to make of the Reference? The mere word “Reference”, and the price of the amp, put it up against string competition. For me, it’s just not impressive enough for the $279 asking price to recommend strongly. I’m sure this will forever vilify me with the Xin-heads, but nonetheless, this is my opinion. The Reference is a very fine amp, to be sure, but I would spend $299 on the amp-only Headamp Pico if it were my money.


*UPDATE: 2/24/08*






*> Meier Audio 2MOVE *

 Info: Kein Titel

 I got a 2Move from Jan on loan to review, but with the advice that I focus mostly on the DAC section, as the amp section was the same as the Move I already own, and had already reviewed. I went ahead and compared the 2Move and the Move, and was unable to tell any difference at all in their amp sections. As such, I am not going to “review” its sound – just look up at the review of the Move. Sonically, they are identical when you use the analog inputs. I will post thoughts on its DAC section elsewhere. The short stroke is that the 2Move’s DAC is much better than the Move’s and makes the amp an even bigger bargain.

 A couple of other comments, however. Jan changed mini-jacks from the original Move. Apparently the original Move had some problems with the jacks. Well, just to be a pain, I never had any issue with the jacks on the original Move, and I like them better than the ones on the 2Move. The Battery Door on the 2Move is a HUGE improvement, though, as is the volume knob, which can actually be turned without undue angst 

 The Meier 2Move retains its very high ranking in this survey, and I believe it represents the best value for money in all of portable amp land.


*> Meier Audio XXS / Headsix *

 Info: Kein Titel

 Jan was kind enough to loan me a XXS, which I really wanted to listen to, since it’s even more affordable than the 2Move, and does not have a DAC, which I don’t need. Unfortunately, the XXS also does not have crossfeed, and I missed that. One of the features I like best with Meier amps is the very well implemented crossfeed circuit. That said, the XXS is much smaller and lighter than the 2Move – it’s Pico/Predator/Tomahawk sized. All these comments would apply to the Meier Headsix, by the way, as the amps are 100% identical, per Jan.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice, attractive metal case. Looks extremely rugged. The jacks seem to work well, although they require more force to get the plugs in than I would like. Totally silent though – no noise at ALL.
*Treble:* A+: Treble is extremely clear. Smooth, open, liquid, and detailed, while lacking in any apparent grain. Highly transparent, and neutral – it doesn’t stick out at all. Great extension and air. Equal to the 2Move in this regard. Cymbals are reproduces with the right amount of attack and decay, and they really sound like cymbals.
*Midrange:* A: Excellent, nicely open mids. Inviting, clean, open, and engaging. Very clean. Just like the 2Move. Excellent with vocals of all kinds, and especially with female vocals.
*Bass:* A-: To my surprise, the bass was slightly less powerful than the 2Move. While the mids and treble seemed identical to the 2Move, the 2Move has more bass drive. The quality of the bass was very good. Might not be the best choice for bass-shy headphones. Was terrific with the HFI-780, though, which are bassier.
*Neutrality*: A: What can I say here, other than “its Neutral”. Because it is. Portable amps that color the sound are not a good idea, IMO. Let your headphones color the sound as you like – let your amps give you the music purely. The XXS absolutely does this.
*Soundstaging:* A: soundstage width is very good, depth is just short of the best. Image specificity is very good. Overall the soundstage is quite impressive for a small, relatively inexpensive amp. I prefer the 2Move with crossfeed on, however.
*Transparency:* A: You cannot possibly ask for more transparency out of a small portable amp than this. This has always been a big benefit of Meier amps to me. There is NO excuse for lack of transparency in an amp, yet it isn’t easy to do, and many amps don’t get this right. The XXS does.

 Well, I kind of thought that I would perhaps ditch my Move in favor of the smaller XXS, since I have no need for a USB DAC. But I won’t be doing that. As good as the XXS is, and it’s amazing for the size and price, the combination of the slightly more robust bass of the Move, and the great crossfeed, mean I will be keeping my Move, and I recommend people spend the extra money for the 2Move if they can. If not, the XXS is an incredible bargain for the money, and will make life VERY hard for many an amp maker.

*> Storm B-3*

 (No web site that I know of – in the USA can be purchased for $220 from EBay).

 I was asked by the manufacturer to review this amp. I do not have the original Storm B4 anymore, but the maker indicated that the B3 was better. I really do wish I had the B4 still, because I was pretty impressed with the B4, but not so the B3, I am afraid to say.



* Build Quality*: A: Better than the original B4 – the volume control doesn’t scratch, and it’s a solidly built, attractively designed amp.
*Treble:* B: The treble is reasonably neutral. There is a noticeable tough of grain though, AND the amp lacks extension and air. I wouldn’t want any more treble energy, and with bright cans it might not be a great match. But in general the treble is extended and clean.
*Midrange:* B: The mids are colored. It’s not a strong coloration, but they are colored – there is a slightly “hooty”, oddly recessed quality to them that is immediately noticeable, and for me detracts from the performance.
*Bass*: B: Good bass quantity, but the bass seems kind of indistinct. Adequate, but nothing to write home about.
*Neutrality:* B-: Uneven sounding, and somewhat colored. It simply ISN’T neutral. And that’s a problem.
*Soundstaging:* B: good width, good depth. Average performance here as well – many amps I have heard do better.
*Transparency*: B-: Every amp I have in house at the moment crushes the B-3 in terms of transparency.

 Some B3 owner is sure to say I’m nuts, or that mine is broken. But it isn’t. It works fine, and I put more than 250 hours on it before reviewing it. While the rest of the portable amp universe seems so be moving strongly forward, sadly, that is not the case here. At $220, the Storm B3 is impossible to recommend, and IMO needs to go back to the drawing board.

*> Ray Samuels Audio The Predator*

 Info: News - Ray Samuels Audio

 The Predator is Ray Samuels’ AMP/DAC combo. I will have some comments about the DAC section, along with the 2Move’s DAC section, in another thread. Here, we will deal only with The Predator as a headphone amp.
 Also, the loaner Predator that HeadphoneAddict was nice enough to send me was fully broken in – more than 1000 hours.

*Build Quality:* A: Excellent, attractive metal case. Like the other RSA amps, the amp exhibits no noise at all, and I mean zero. Dead quiet – a major plus. Has a 3-position gain selector switch. Slight turn on “click”.
*Treble:* A: Outstanding. Clean, grain-free, extended and transparent. Lacks the last little bit of treble air that the iQube has, but it has smooth and detailed highs . I cannot imagine anyone having anything but prais for the Predator’s treble reproduction.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open – provides that all-important wide-open window to the music. Classic RSA performance here, which is to say, excellent. One gets the feeling that one could listen endlessly without listener fatigue. Listening to Holly Cole’s “Tango ‘till They’re Sore” was truly a pleasure with the way her voice comes through.
*Bass:* A+: Terrific bass. WOW. Deep, tight, punch, ample and well defined. Sheesh! Phenomenal. How does such a small amp make bass like this? The double-kick drum on Circa Survive’s “Mandala” was really impressive. Good stuff.
*Neutrality:* A: A remarkably neutral amp. Not complaints here at all, other than missing the very last bit of treble extension.
*Soundstaging:* A: Excellent depth and width. Nothing spectacular, but very solid.
*Transparency:* A: Right up there with the best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music. No grain or opaqueness. Very good performance, bettered only by the iQube, and on par with the excellent Meier 2Move.

 Given all of RSA’s other excellent portable amps, I really don’t think anyone would buy the Predator unless they needed a USB DAC. But the amp performance is TERRIFIC. Ray knows his stuff.

*Update 3-11-08

 Mini3*

 Info: The Mini³ Portable Stereo Headphone Amplifier *KIT*

 The Mini3 is a DIY amp, although it can be purchased complete from a number of sources. Vlad loaned me his completed Mini3 to review. His was nicely built into a small metal Hammond case. There were no features other than a batter charging circuit.

*Build Quality*: n/a: this will simply depend on how the amp’s builder decides to build it.
*Treble*: A-: Nice and smooth, and fairly neutral and transparent. Perhaps a bit soft, and lacking the very last bit of top end extension. Still very nice.
*Midrange*: A: Impressive performance in the mids. Open, inviting, and smooth. I was impressed. Female vocals like Kathleen Edwards and Goldfrapp were very well served by the Mini3’s midrange performance.
*Bass:* A-: Plenty of bass, but it was a little loose at times. Some of the better amps offer better bass control, and a little more definition. Still, this is only in comparison to the very best.
*Neutrality:* A-: It’s just a touch warm and rolled off on top from neutral. But it sure sounds pretty!
*Soundstaging:* B+: Soundstage depth was excellent. Image specificity was very good. Width was just good – soundstage width was not delivered in full measure by the Mini3.
*Transparency:* A-: Definitely an open, clear, generally clean, grain-free sound. Not the LAST word in resolution, but still very good.

 The Mini3 can be bought for $125 completely built from Rockhopper audio. I understand MisterX may build them as well. For that price it represents an INCREDIBLE bargain. While I feel the Meier XXS offers better overall performance, even it costs $195. So the Mini3 is a VERY easy recommendation for someone wanting a very good, inexpensive amp.

* Update 4/9/08
*

*> Todd the Vinyl Junkie Portable Millet Hybrid*

TTVJ Millett Hybrid Amp - $459.00 : TTVJ, Todd The Vinyl Junkie

 I was able to listen to this amp under TTVJ’s loaner program. The PMH is of course the only portable amp with tubes in it that I am aware of. But it’s a hybrid – the tubes aren’t used to drive the headphones directly. Based on what I had read, I expected it to sound tubier than it did. But there are some sonic attributes that can probably be ascribed to the tubes. Less happily, the tubes are also likely the reason that the chassis rings very audibly through the headphones if tapped. This is really a bummer for a portable amp. It means that while it is portable, care will have to be taken while listening not to bump it, or unwanted ringing will overlay the music.


*Build Quality*: A: Very attractive and sturdy chassis. I guess I won’t subtract here for that annoying pinging…
*Treble:* A-: The treble is reasonably clean, transparent, and neutral. As I expected the amp lacks a little top end extension and air, but not nearly as much as I thought it might. I don’t think the treble is a real problem, generally, unless you try to use it with dark sounding headphones.
*Midrange: A+:* WOW. Simply gorgeous. Cliché or not, I have to assume this is due to the tube impact. But the mids were musical, lush, detailed, clean, open, and very enjoyable. The amp’s strong suite, no doubt.
*Bass: A-:* Full, punch, and fat. Perhaps a little loose. Could have a little better depth. But it was very enjoyable nonetheless.
*Neutrality: A-:* More neutral than I expected. Aside from lacking the very frequency extremes, it is essentially neutral . In fact, I was surprised to find it more neutral than the Decware Zenhead, which went through the review process at the same time.
*Soundstaging: A:* Great depth and width, and a very palpable image. Excellent performance here.
*Transparency: A-: * Occasionally just a bit thick sounding, but generally very transparent.

 The TTVJ PMH provides very good, and in some respect truly excellent sound. It’s generally well built. But it’s at the very top end of the price curve of portable headphone amps, and for my $450, for portable use, I’d prefer the iQube, which performs better overall and doesn’t have that very annoying pinging/ringing. It might be better to leave the tubes at home.

*> Decware ZenHead *

DECWARE / High Fidelity Engineering Co.

 NOTE: This review updated with new model July 09.

 I was asked by Decware, a maker of many high-end tube amps, to review their portable headphone amp, The ZenHead. When I received it, I was surprised about the size – it’s BIG. It’s as big as the Lisa III. It uses a 9V battery, and has no charging facility. Like the Lisa III, it’s really too big for many portable applications. Decware’s Steve Deckert said that he did not really try to keep the size down for the same reason that he didn’t include a batter charging circuit – he was going purely for the best sound he could. Certainly a good goal. However, while in the case of the Lisa III I felt the superior sonics could justify the size, the Zenhead is merely a very good, competitive sounding amp, that is really big.

 OK, OK, but how did it sound???? Well, very good. Overall, I felt that Decware’s main business of selling tube amps shows in how the amp is voiced. It sounds like many tube amps I have heard. As such, its sound is a little idiosyncratic. I struggled some with the normal ratings I give, in terms of capturing the essence of the amp. On some tracks it sounded fantastic; on others, merely very good. In it's "LoZ setting" it was more neutral sounding than the "HiZ" setting, so I used this mode.

*Build Quality:* A: Pretty industrial, plain looking case, but very sturdy, and solidly built. No turn on/off thump. Totally silent also – no noise at ALL. No points for style, but none deducted for cheap plastics – it’s all metal.
*Treble:* A: Treble is quite clear. Very transparent. Maybe not as extended as the iQube, but still excellent. Better than in version 1.
*Midrange:* A: Slightly lush, but very transparent, and clear. Highly engaging performance here. Again, better than in version 1 - liquid and smooth but with great nuance.
*Bass:* A: The bass was excellent. Full, powerful, punchy. Lacked the very last bit of depth that the iQube has, but still truly excellent.
*Neutrality:* A: The new version is basically neutral in "LoZ" mode - maybe just a very slight warmth in the lower mids and upper bass, but not enough to be problematic.
*Soundstaging:* A+: The ZenHead has selectable crossfeed. I found that its soundstage was deep and wide, and truly palpable. It excelled here, even better than the 2Move with the Meier crossfeed on. If you are a soundstage freak, this amp is for you.
*Transparency:* A: Definitely in the class of amps that presents a wide-open window on the music. Very good performance here.

 The V2 of the ZenHead offers a quite "tube-like" sound in "Hi-Z" mode, and a more neutral, very transparent sound in "Lo-Z" mode. This makes a very good amp even better. I like the ZenHead a lot - I just wish it were smaller.


*> Graham Slee Voyager *

Voyager Portable Headphone Amplifier - A New Headphone Amplifier by Graham Slee

 A Head-fier was kind enough to loan me a Graham Slee Voyager to test, since a lot of people had asked me about it. The Voyager is highly regarded in many head-fi circles, and indeed, it deserves some of this praise. It has some very good qualities.
 One thing that it doesn’t have is good looks. It looks cheap as hell compared to any other headphone amp over $200, and at $350, one has to hope that there are a heck of a lot of high quality parts inside, because the cheap plastic case is pretty lame.
 It has a “Contour” switch, which increases bass and treble. I have no use for such things, but some people might. Having a USB power option is kind of handy (it does not contain a DAC though).

 In terms of sound, it was a very good overall performer with no real glaring weaknesses, but no earth-shattering areas of performance either.

*Build Quality: B-*: See above. Also, it pops loudly when powered up. The slider power switch is pretty cheesy too. Really uninspiring build quality, especially for the price. About the best thing I can say about it is that it probably would survive being dropped without incident.
*Treble: A-*: Generally clean and clear. Good detail, but perhaps just a bit too much sheen.
*Midrange: A-*: Again, generally clean and transparent, with no obvious coloration. Still, in direct comparison to the iQube, the mids of the Voyager are not as transparent. In fact, the mods of the 2Move are more transparent and open sounding than the Voyager’s. Still, it offers generally very good performance here, and female vocals were very pleasantly reproduced.
*Bass: A*: The bass was excellent. Like the Decware Zenhead, if has full, powerful, and punchy bass. It too lacked the very last bit of depth that the iQube has, but still very good excellent.
*Neutrality: A:* Generally very neutral. Impressively so, in fact. Only the slight treble emphasis subtracts here, and it’s not a big deal.
*Soundstaging: A:* Convincing image stability, and reasonable width combined with excellent depth give it a good score here.
*Transparency: A-:* Perhaps this is where there is a little failing – there seems to be kind of a gauze through which one hears the music – slight, but there. It prevented me from becoming fully engaged with the music in many instances.

 So, I think the Voyager is a very good amp that is overpriced for what it delivers and how it’s packaged. It would be terrific in a nice metal case for $250. At $350 in a cheap plastic case, it’s simply impossible to recommend.

*NOTE: All new amp reviews are now in later posts, with links below - only the rankings contain all reviewed amps (due to a limit on the size of the post)*
   
   
   
   
*Conclusions (12-20-10)*

 OK, so now it’s now 56 amps! *NOTE: I have decided to change the way the rankings work*. I have created LEVELS, rather than individual ranks. As before, note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. I have made no attempt to rank the amps WITHIN each level.  Within each given level, they are listed basically at random.  Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 Level 1:
   
  Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional/ Trian Audio L3 (newer version) Review here
  MST Fi.Quest, @ $450 (Review here)
  Meier Audio Stepdance @ $350 (Review here)
  Ray Samuels Audio SR-71B @ $600 (Review here)
  Ray Samuels Audio The Protector (in BALANCED mode only), @ $475 (Review here)

 Level 2:
   
  Qables iQube @ $605.00
 RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (long ago discontinued)

 Level 3:
   
  ALO Audio RX Mk II @ $449 (review here)
  Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219 (Review Here )
 RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
  iBasso Toucan @ $229 (Review here )

 Level 4:
   
  Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
   
  Level 5:

 TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 Xin Reference @ $279.99
 Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
   
  Level 6:

 ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 Linearrosa W3 @ $299 (review here )
 Leckerton Audio UHA-6S @ $309 (review Here )
 iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 Go-Vibe 7
 Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
   
  Level 7:

 Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 iBasso T3 @ $119.00 (Review here)
 Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 Linearrosa W1 (review here )
 mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 Storm Little-2 (review here)
   
  Level 7:

 Storm B4
 Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here)
 iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
  Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 C&C XO @ $209.00
   
  Level 8:
   

 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 NuForce $99 (review here)
 Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
  iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 C&C Box V2
 Storm B3
 Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 I apologize in advance if you liked the old ranking system better, but as this review has gone on over time, and as it has grown, I think this is a better approach.  As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## radz

Really nice review skylab.

 Its good to see the popular portables compared and I have been waiting for you to do this.


----------



## Dregur

Great review Skylabs, I think I'll definitely take a look at the Headphonia and the XM4. 

 -The Grinman


----------



## Dexdexter

Truly an enjoyable read, Skylab!

 Thanks for taking the time to do such an impressive overview. I think we'd all love to be able to have a play with so many amps!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers, Dex


----------



## Dexdexter

Something glitched my reply...

 Just wanted to add thanks for taking the time to do such an impressive overview. I'm sure we'd all love to have a play with so many amps!


----------



## m_memmory

Great review Skylab.

 Especially as I'm on the lookout for a new portable amp and you've covered the ones that I would be considering (as well as some others that I wouldn't but maybe should be!)


----------



## jamato8

Interesting review and I know you must have spent many hours going back and forth. It would be interesting to read your impressions of the Xin IV or the LE, which can also drive many types of phones.


----------



## Skylab

*TESTING METHODOLOGY:*

 For the review I used the following headphones:

 •Early reviews: Sennheiser HD25-1 (primarily), 2005 Beyerdynamic DT770/32 ohm, 2005 Beyerdynamic DT880/250 ohm
 •Middle reviews: Denon D5000, AT-ESW9, Ultrasone HFI-780, Sennheiser PXC350, AT ESW9, Kenwood KH1000
 •Later reviews: Sennheiser PXC350, Shure SRH840, Denon D7000, DT770/32 Ohm
  •Current reviews: Sennheiser PXC350, Beyerdynamic t50p, Ultimate Ears Triple-fi 10


 Early on I listened to some with Shure E500’s, but that was not part of the “formal” test.

 Music used for the review:

 •Patricia Barber – “All or Nothing at All”, Nightclub
 •Holly Cole, “Looking for the Heart of Saturday Night”, Temptation
 •Crash Test Dummies, “In the Days of the Caveman”, God Shuffled His Feet
 •Dave Matthews, “Oh”, Some Devil
 •Jenny Lewis with the Watson Twins, “Handle With Care”, Rabbit Fur Coat.

 Listening was done with the levels matched to within 1db using a RS SPL meter, so that the listening volume level was identical with each amp. Source was a RedWineAudio iMod iPod, connected with an RnB Audio interconnect.

 No attempt is going to be made here to completely describe each amp – this has been done plenty of places on this site. Rather, I scored the amps based my listening in the areas of midrange, treble, and bass performance, transparency, neutrality, soundstaging, build quality, and other pertinent comments. I used an academic grading scale, but as in most academics, the lowest grade any of these amps got was a B-, since they were all pretty good.

 Please note that this is still just a subjective review, in spite of my attempts to standardize the testing. While reference amps were always used in the comparisons, due to the large number of amps involved, and the time horizon of this review, direct comparisons between every amp is clearly neither practical not possible. Also, in case there is any question, I either purchased all of these amps with my own hard-earned money, or they were temporarily loaned to me - any amp I have kept I purchased. Also, they are the stock amplifiers – no mods of any kind were done. Where there was a bass boost function, it wasn’t used.


----------



## chat7

Really great review Skylab.

 compact and very useful. Now I'm considering to try the headphonia.


----------



## Andrea

Skylab, what's the point in including the *Xenos 0HA* in your review, when it's long been out of production? There have been several steps of evolution in the meantime, 0HA-R, 0HA-RHP, 0HA-REP (hoping I'm not missing some).

 Some people could easily be (or want to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) misled by this.


----------



## Dzjudz

Great review. Makes me more happy that I bought my Hornet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Andrea

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, in the end, here’s how I ranked the amps:

 1.Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II
 2.RSA The Hornet
 3.RSA Tomahawk
 4.Headphonia
 5.Practical Devices XM4
*6.Xenos 0HA*
 7.Go-Vibe V5
 8.Little Dot Micro+_

 

Especially as you wanted to include it in your ranking, without even a slightest mention of the fact that it's a surpassed product that's not made anymore.

 The misleading that this can generate at a superficial or uninformed sight is obvious, given that "0HA" is common to the entire series of amps.

 Would/could you have done the same with, say, a Xin Supermacro v1 ? No, I think not.

 It's an instance of what I would call "forum narrowness".


----------



## vo328

Thanks for the review, Skylab! Have you ever listened to the Headroom Micro amp? If so, any thoughts on how it compared with the amps you reviewed?


----------



## jamato8

"I had as Xin Supermacro IV for a few weeks, and while I thought it was a good amp, I preferred both the Hornet and the PRII, so I sold the Xin (long before I did this review). But the Xin was in that category of amps that make you go "wow", to be sure. I just don't like Xin's business practices."


 Well I have to admit the wait can be long for the Xin amps and not always will people be happy with not hearing replies to all their emails. One problem with comparing the Xin amp is that you can use so many different opamps, which greatly impact the sound quality so to pin it down to one sound is impossible. I had the SR71 for some time and enjoyed the sound and quality but in the long run with the right opamps I got a larger stage and greater dynamics with the SM3 running on 2 634 buffers per channel and the 5534 bypassed opamp.


----------



## lohrm1@excite.co

Great review...I'm also waiting, not so patiently at this point, on the Diablo and will be interested to see how it compares to the Tomahawk which I love. Hopefully we'll see the amp shortly...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrea* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Especially as you wanted to include it in your ranking, without even a slightest mention of the fact that it's a surpassed product that's not made anymore. The deceivment that this can cause at a superficial sight (which - in a swift digression - is the only sight of many) is obvious, given that "0HA" is common to the entire series of amps. Would/could you have done the same with, say, a Xin Supermacro v1 ? No, I think not. _

 

Andreas:

 Sorry I wasn't as nice to your favorite little amp as you'd like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But really, to call it "deceptive" makes you guilty of thread-crapping, and I don't appreciate that.

 Actually, I had wanted to use the Xenos 1HA for the review, but they aren't shipping yet (I do have one on order). I wanted to include a Xenos amp. I'm not sure why it is unfair to include this version of the amp. I had it on hand, and I think it still serves as a somewhat valid comparison.

 But for anyone who might have been confused: the 0HA I have is NOT the newest version of this amp, and it's possible that the newer versions might have fared better or differently. I have a Xenos 1HA on order, and I will add it to the review when it comes in.


----------



## MrJoshua

Great review...

 Will you add the X-1 Amp to the review when you receive your replacement?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrJoshua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review...

 Will you add the X-1 Amp to the review when you receive your replacement?_

 

Yes, when my replacement comes, I will add the X-1 back in. If it ever comes, I will also add the Larocco ISA Diablo, and as mentioned, I will add the Xenos 1HA. But just to piss off Andreas, I will leave my comments on the 0HA in there


----------



## Jahn

great insights skylab, thanks! reminds me of the Romanee spiels of old. I agree that the PRII sounded really nice the last time i heard it, but even then compared to a stock Hornet (not "M" mod) i preferred the Hornet in a loud ambient setting - the PRII was a tad too polite and probably deserved a quiet home use setting to bring out the subtleties. I like how the "M" has kept the portable "grr" of the Hornet, but is more refined than the stock. I miss that big boomy bass, but this "M" bass is still plenty huge and it's more accurate to boot!


----------



## Morph201

LOL! My wallet is thanking you for that review!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the test on the GV5 was that done using the elpac 24v and I assume there were 400+ hours on the Hornet???


----------



## oicdn

Nice review!!! Definitly something worth reading as I'm considering a new portable just to get my feet wet with other portables...


----------



## LFC_SL

Great review! I used a _little_ of this review (comparison) to pop some green down for the Tomahawk


----------



## kramer5150

excellent review!!

 Comparison reviews, which state a common reference are always more valuable than "open ended" reviews.

 On the Xenos, I think it IS a good thing to include it. They do show up used and on ebay so just because its out of production should not exclude it from a comparison review. Andrea makes a good point that one amp should never be a "representative" of an entire product lineup.

 I'm kind of surprised you ranked the headphonia as low as you did. Its kind of a unique product with its USB DAC. I'm thinking about getting one just because of this feature. It might make a nice addition to my transportable laptop rig.

 Thanks again!!
 Garrett


----------



## Lectorcito

Excellent review! Very informative.

 Thanks a lot!


----------



## digihead

Fantastic review. Thanks Skylab! Out of curiosity, how many hours did your Tomahawk have on it when you listened for the shootout?


----------



## j24

Skylab, great review. What about the AE-1 or the new AE-2? Do you have one around to add this amp to the review?


----------



## mrarroyo

Hi skylab and thanks for the review. I have compared all the same amps (and some more) and I agree with your 4 top rankings. However I do have a couple of questions/comments.

 1. Which OP-Amp on the LaRocco PRII? I as because with the AD744 it will sound even better. I do agree with you that it is huge and for some a pain to carry on a daily basis. But it sounds so gooood!

 2. I would have ranked the Go- Vibe 5 as number 5. I realize we have different ears so different rankings.

 3. The one area I disagree with you is on what I take as your dissing of Dr. Xin's amps. Even though he is a horrible communicator and time does not mean the same to him as for the rest of us I have to say the sound of his amps is IMO the best. It is a pity you did not include one in your review. Perhaps when I get my Supermacro LE I can send it to you for an audition.

 Thanks for the nice review.


----------



## Etrips

Very nice reivew! Can't wait to get my Tomahawk from Ray!


----------



## Romanee

Well done, Skylab! Thanks for the effort, and for the nicely organized, well-considered comparisons.

 Jahn raised an important point, that since portable amps are often used in venues that challenge them with varying degrees of noise, performance in noisy environs needs to be considered in addition to performance in quiet surroundings.

 Happy 2007 to all!


----------



## nickknutson

Skylab,
 What are the dimensions of the RSA Hornet and the PRII?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! My wallet is thanking you for that review!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, the test on the GV5 was that done using the elpac 24v and I assume there were 400+ hours on the Hornet???_

 

No, for ALL the amps the reviews were done operating on batteries. And yes, more than 400 hours on the Hornet.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digihead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fantastic review. Thanks Skylab! Out of curiosity, how many hours did your Tomahawk have on it when you listened for the shootout?_

 

About 120 hours. It didn't change very much past 50 hours, though.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, great review. What about the AE-1 or the new AE-2? Do you have one around to add this amp to the review?_

 

Sorry, I have never heard an AE-1 or AE-2. And I did not include the Headroom Total Airhead or the Meier Porta Corda III because I no longer own them, and this review was done only on amps I had ON HAND.

 Thanks for all the nice comments folks, it makes writing these reviews (which take a very long time) a pleasure.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi skylab and thanks for the review. I have compared all the same amps (and some more) and I agree with your 4 top rankings. However I do have a couple of questions/comments.

 1. Which OP-Amp on the LaRocco PRII? I as because with the AD744 it will sound even better. I do agree with you that it is huge and for some a pain to carry on a daily basis. But it sounds so gooood!

 2. I would have ranked the Go- Vibe 5 as number 5. I realize we have different ears so different rankings.

 3. The one area I disagree with you is on what I take as your dissing of Dr. Xin's amps. Even though he is a horrible communicator and time does not mean the same to him as for the rest of us I have to say the sound of his amps is IMO the best. It is a pity you did not include one in your review. Perhaps when I get my Supermacro LE I can send it to you for an audition.

 Thanks for the nice review._

 

Hey Mr. Arroyo, thanks for your comments. My PRII does not have the AD744. I have ordered a PRII mk II, which has a gain switch and the AD744, but it isn't available yet. I think that will cement the PRII at the top amp (which i already feel it is).

 Also, I did not dis Xin amps. I like Xin amps, and I commented that I thought the SMIV was a very, very good amp. But the constant revisions/updating, plus the poor communication from Dr. Xin, just means that Xin amps are not for me. Others may actually enjoy this sort of mystic process


----------



## el_monkey

Sylab, thanks for the effort put into the comparison review. This type of review is very helpful to those of us considering purchasing one of the amps reviewed. With respect to the comment on the ranking of the Headphonia amp, if anything I was impressed with high it ranked given the quality of the competing amps.


----------



## laxx

Thanks Skylab~

 I've been waiting for this review since Christmas! I think the overall review was great and hope you add the Xtra in soon as that was the amp I was debating on getting. I still dream of the Hornet-M, but I just don't have the funds tog it yet. =T


----------



## chowk

Thanks for the great review. For those of us who have yet to purchase their first portable amp, and have had no experience of any, this is a great help.

 Must resist urge to buy RSA Tomahawk...


----------



## mikuhf

Skylab -- thanks very much for the review -- a portable amp is next on my list, and I've been reading your posts (along with Andrea, mrarroyo and others), trying to work out which one I want.

 I also would like to see how the AE-2, 1HA and Xin -IV amps fit into the picture. But I understand this was not intended to be exhaustive -- just indicative.

 Since I have a TBH 2006, it'd help me personally to see how you judge that portable amp in the mix -- just for a baseline.

 Two more variables which could be included if you wanted to grow the review -- opamp selection (where possible), and headphone choice (I'm an AKG fan - K701, K240S, K271, and Shure E4c, E3c -- with a cheap HD580 coming in the mail).

 I think my shortlist is down to Hornet, 1HA, AE-2, Headphonia. Maybe Xin. I find the DAC incredibly useful. Most of my listening is from a laptop via the TBH both at work and at home. It would probably make more sense for me to buy 2 desktop amps with DACs (eg Meier's new one), and stop carrying the TBH around...

 Either way -- it might help others to have two lists -- portable amps in general, and then a list of portable amps with integrated DAC. I suspect, based on your previous posts, you'd recommend the Headphonia hands-down as the amp+DAC combo to pick?

 Thanks again Skylab -- very much appreciated!

 Michael

 (hmmm. Heed Canamp with integrated DAC? maybe I should email them...)


----------



## bungle

It seems on the Headphonia thread (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209233) that some changes were made to the design after some feedback (can't really remember them, though). Do you know what version you tested?


----------



## StevieDvd

Nice review thanks for making the time and effort to publish it here. I appreciate that you reviewed amps you own and did not include others you once owned as reviews from memory are unfair in my view.

 As you have the Corda HS2 MkII SE and the Larocco PRII I was a little curious about heir comparisontoo as the PRII was once on my shopping list but dropped off due to the initial supply/waiting issues.

 Will also lookout for your views on the diablo when it arrives.

 Steve


----------



## chris in mo

Thanks for the reviews Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bungle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems on the Headphonia thread (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209233) that some changes were made to the design after some feedback (can't really remember them, though). Do you know what version you tested?_

 

Yes, I have the first version, although Headphonia is sending me a second version to try, and I get to keep the one I like best! Pretty good customer service there. I will post impressions when the second one arrives.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StevieDvd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review thanks for making the time and effort to publish it here. I appreciate that you reviewed amps you own and did not include others you once owned as reviews from memory are unfair in my view.

 As you have the Corda HS2 MkII SE and the Larocco PRII I was a little curious about heir comparisontoo as the PRII was once on my shopping list but dropped off due to the initial supply/waiting issues.

 Will also lookout for your views on the diablo when it arrives.

 Steve_

 

As much as I like the PRII, the Corda HA-2 MkII/SE is the best amp I have ever heard, hands down (although I do have an Opera on the way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


----------



## doctorjuggles

Thanks very much for the great review, Skylab. Multiproduct reviews are a tough assignment and your input is much appreciated.


----------



## bungle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I have the first version, although Headphonia is sending me a second version to try, and I get to keep the one I like best! Pretty good customer service there. I will post impressions when the second one arrives._

 

I think the main difference is changing the opamp from LM6171 to AD8397. Also, he's adding charging via USB. Do you remember anything else? I'm looking forward to your impressions. I think I'm leaning towards the Headphonia over the Bithead at this point - seems like a great little multipurpose amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bungle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the main difference is changing the opamp from LM6171 to AD8397. Also, he's adding charging via USB. Do you remember anything else? I'm looking forward to your impressions. I think I'm leaning towards the Headphonia over the Bithead at this point - seems like a great little multipurpose amp._

 

I'm not sure that the USB charging circuit has been implemented. Pretty sure all I am getting is the new op-amp.


----------



## Jahn

any chance the OP can become a featured review sticky? it would be very helpful and shouldn't go out of date too soon.


----------



## bungle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure that the USB charging circuit has been implemented. Pretty sure all I am getting is the new op-amp._

 

They are, but maybe your new one came before that change.

 From headphonia.com:
  Quote:


 This version is getting a re-design in the moment to comprise a battery charing from USB port. Shipping will be in February 2007!


----------



## Asr

Awesome review Skylab! So much info crammed in there, I think I'm going to have to read it multiple times to absorb it all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 Very informative, and very interesting to see how they stack up against your ears. I'm surprised at your criticism of the LDM+ - I never thought its internal noise was that bad. :\ 

 I'd love to hear a Hornet M or PRII at a meet one day. Don't think I'll ever buy either because my team affiliation to HeadAmp is just too strong and I can't justify more than 1 portable amp...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,
 What are the dimensions of the RSA Hornet and the PRII?_

 

The folllowing picture is from another mini meet but will show the two amps stacked and should give you an idea on how small the Hornet is.

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs207&d=06416&f=DSCN0683.JPG


----------



## FreeBlues

Skylab - that was a GREAT piece of work. The listening sessions alone must have taken forever, but then to write all you did is way above and beyond. Excellent review!

 I have both the Hornet M (450+ hrs) and the Tomahawk (<100 hrs) and agree completely with your comments. Both are great products and I'm hard pressed to choose between them using IEM's only.

 I share your opinion of Xin. I didn't think you dissed him, just called it for what it is.

 Keep up the good work!


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FreeBlues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I share your opinion of Xin. I didn't think you dissed him, just called it for what it is._

 

I agree...and I am a big Xin and SMIV fan!

 Thanks, Skylab for an excellent review and taking the time to do this. As others have said, I wish you still had your SuperMacro just for the excercise. But you do say it's a good amp, and I am sure many of us will have to rest with that and not make an ex post facto ranking.

 Great contribution to the head-fi community.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish you still had your SuperMacro just for the excercise._

 

Yeah, me too! I really wish I'd had it, a Meier PCIII, and a Headroom TA (all of which I have owned before). I'd also love to have had the Xenos 1HA, which I understand is shipping to moe tomorrow, so I will add it to the review later. I'd also have loved to have had an AE-1 - as this I have never even heard.

 But then again, if I'd had 5 more amps, I'm not sure I'd have ever finished the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the kind words folks.


----------



## 3x331m

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*> Ray Samuels Audio Tomahawk*

*Treble:* A-: clean, grain-free, extended and transparent. Lacks the last little bit of treble air that the Hornet and PRII have, but it also lacks the slightly forward character of the Hornet’s treble, and in some ways I preferred the Tomahawk’s treble presentation to the Hornet’s._

 

IMO, this well controlled treble (High) is a very good feature for Grado phones. I think the TH has more synergy with Grado phones than many other amps. I really enjoy my TH with the Grado phones.


----------



## radz

Is there any chance of you including afew photos Skylab?

 It would be great to be able to see how all these amps compare to each other size wise (maybe 1 photo with them all lined up).


----------



## TVaudio

Thanks for the great review.
 I think anyone who takes time to offer their opinions in comparison is a great resource. Not all of us have the means to sample a number of amps, and comparisons like this I appreciate to help me in my next spending spree.


----------



## mchang

Superb review! Well organized and written. I wish I had this three months ago when I started my upgrade journey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm already getting ready to close this window and start searching "Headphonia" here.


----------



## Happy Camper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, me too! I really wish I'd had it, a Meier PCIII, and a Headroom TA (all of which I have owned before). I'd also love to have had the Xenos 1HA, which I understand is shipping to moe tomorrow, so I will add it to the review later. I'd also have loved to have had an AE-1 - as this I have never even heard.

 But then again, if I'd had 5 more amps, I'm not sure I'd have ever finished the review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all the kind words folks._

 

Perhaps some members could come off their amps long enough for you to review a second set. Perhaps the top three of each review for a final. I'd offer a Xin Macro4 Shipped nov. 10 w/8620 w/634x2 out. Approx. 400 hrs. 

 In this vane, it would be interesting to have new equipment reviewed by rotating camp members and some random new members with a test rig developed by membership. No vendor involvement. Maybe a CD made for newbs (by membership) to teach language/performance listening and a few reference discs. As long as the reviews are kept as honest as possible, doing a three product review shouldn't take too much. Opamps & tubes could be done this way as well. Gets people that otherwise w/couldn't get involved and offsets the camp banter. Rig(s) could be reviewed at meets (before selected debauchery) and at home. Cost could be collected at meets w/donations. I would pay shipping to hear some of this stuff. I'd really like to read reviews on worldwide (no clones) products from folks who are in a different camp that for whatever reason won't review competition. 

 ..........Just thinking out loud. No serious request for you to do this again. Thank you for the considerable effort and willingness to be critiqued.


----------



## daggerlee

great review! would have been nice to see some of the DIY amps featured. well, maybe that can wait until Tangent releases his next portable amp design, and when amb has finalized the mini^3.


----------



## GreatDane

Great job Skylab, I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts.

 Lets see who can out do him. I wanna see a 21 amp salute.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *radz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any chance of you including afew photos Skylab?

 It would be great to be able to see how all these amps compare to each other size wise (maybe 1 photo with them all lined up)._

 

Good suggestion. I can do this with a few of them, but I already sold the LDM+ and the Go-Vibe V5, and the Xtra is on it's way back to China for repair...But I can snap a quick one of the rest of them tomorrow.


----------



## 3X0

Excellent review; this really gives perspective on the whole spectrum. Too often do you see only amps compared to one another in their similar respective price segments. With the whole picture, it's really much easier to determine the overall ranking of an amp among the rest.


----------



## Dregur

Man, the (basic) Headphonia and the XM-4 are head to head right now. Same price, it's either going to be sound or features if I get either. Headphonia looks like it sounds better, but the XM-4 has some great features in a cheap package (and in a better enclosure), including socketed opamp rolling, gain switches and bass boost. It can also be used a flashlight in a pinch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It also doesn't help that I both have warm phones (E2C and Super.Fi 5 Pros) and am soon to be recieving the bass lean EW9. Along with the fun KSC75's....

 Choices, choices...

 -The Grinman


----------



## JLai

Great review.

 I'm surprised TH fans aren't up in arms about the Hornet M being higher ranked.


----------



## stewgriff

Awesome work! Just adding on...sticky!

 I'm considering the Headphonia for my DT990. I still haven't decided yet, as it's between this and a Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed, but your review doesn't make things easier...

 300th post!


----------



## DDF

Skylab, we can guess what you did on your Christmas vacation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for sharing, that'll be a "go-to" review for a while.

 The only gotcha is that it really hard to get the amp gains well matched with an SPL meter. Different headphones will couple with the head differently, and its really hard to get repeatability acousticaly even with one headset (I have alot of experience in this area). Louder will sound better if all other attributes are pretty close.

 What I do when running electronics comparisons is to match the amp gain directly. Cut a "reference" Cd with a few simple tones on it, then use a voltmeter to measure the amp voltage output into a resistor load (best to be equal to your headphones, if possible, so to best get equal levels if any amp has appreciable source resistance). A Neutrik terminated in the resistor will do the trick for a couple bucks.

 If you want a really good (free) tone source to cut the CDs with, send me a PM.


----------



## rlanger

x3 sticky it should be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Skylab your hard work is obviously much appreciated by all (well all except Adrea maybe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) who have taken the time to read it. Thanks a lot for putting it together.


----------



## Voltron

Nicely done Skylab! Sticky it should be, yes (x4)!


----------



## Fireescape

Can someone answer this question. When it's said that an amp is noisy, what causes this, is it cheap componets, maybe cheap construction. I have a LDM2(low gain model) that I use with my ZVM (line out) and a pair of UM2's. I always thought this amp was pretty noisy, there's a lot of hiss (to the point where it can be heard even through fairly loud passages of music). I know that UM'2 are fairly sensitive which probably doesn't help. Would a better amp (say a hornet or a tomahawk) still have this hiss. Are they worth the extra money (this could be a silly question!).

 Thanks in advance


----------



## rhymesgalore

Yes,the two amps you mentioned will definetly reduce the hiss, or even eliminate it completly, depending on the listening volume. I can even get my HD650 to hiss with the Hornet, but just in high gain, and at volume level that would make your head explode. So at low gain, you should be perfectly fine.
 So the quote "no hiss" from skylab should be read as "no hiss at sane volume levels".

 @Skylab: Great review, and shurely a help for all who are in the market for a portable.
 One note though: As you mentioned the noice when turning the pot for the Little Dot Micro, it should be mentioned, that this happens with the Hornet as well, due to the pot in use. Not that new buyers think their new toy is defect^^


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhymesgalore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Skylab: Great review, and shurely a help for all who are in the market for a portable.
 One note though: As you mentioned the noice when turning the pot for the Little Dot Micro, it should be mentioned, that this happens with the Hornet as well, due to the pot in use. Not that new buyers think their new toy is defect^^_

 

Thanks. I confess that I did not notice this on my Hornet. I will go back and check it and report back.

 Also, I have added a few pics, and will add another later.

 Also, DDF, w/r/t level-matching, I'm not sure I understand your point. I used a pink-noise track to match the levels of the amps, using the same headphones, to within 1db. Why wouldn't this work? Genuinely curious here. It seems that if all the amps were delivering exactly 80db at the headphones on the same pink noise track, then they're pretty well level matched...


----------



## Dregur

Hopefully they're pics comparing the size of the Headphonia and Practical Devices X4. *nudge nudge, wink wink*

 -The Grinman


----------



## Skylab

The following pics are now part of the review:


----------



## radz

Thanks for the pictures.

 Its great to compare the size of these and amazing how small some are compared to the battery.


----------



## LFC_SL

Smaller is better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait for my Tomahawk to arrive. Personally, I'd class the Hornet as just about the maximum size I'd be willing to carry outdoors


----------



## illy2k

w00t great review skylab.


----------



## JLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhymesgalore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can even get my HD650 to hiss with the Hornet, but just in high gain_

 

Interesting. Mine don't hiss at all.


----------



## kramer5150

IMHO it should be noted that the Practical Devices XM4 has socketable OPamps. Its a dual OP amp design with one chip buffering the other (I think someone please correct me). I think its the only one in the review with this feature. Would it be possible to update your review with some commentary, on which amps have socketed OPamps and which do not?

 What that means is the chips can be rolled for a custom sound that synnergizes with many different cans.

 I wouldn't be surprised if it _could _rank higher on your preference list with a little OP amp rolling.

 Thanks again for an excellent review, Mods cast my vote for a sticky.


----------



## DDF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Also, DDF, w/r/t level-matching, I'm not sure I understand your point. I used a pink-noise track to match the levels of the amps, using the same headphones, to within 1db. Why wouldn't this work? Genuinely curious here. It seems that if all the amps were delivering exactly 80db at the headphones on the same pink noise track, then they're pretty well level matched..._

 

Hi Skylab,

 Thanks for clarifying that your tests used the same headphone, which is very important. For the uninitiated: different headphones can give the same SPL in free space (i.e. not on a head) but very different perceived SPL when used. Headphones produce different SPLs into different acoustic loads (seals), and each headphone is often uniquely sensitive to differences in the seal. So, lets say the gain of one amp is adjusted to measure 80dB in free space on one headphone with an RS meter, then repeated with another set of headphones; the perceived levels will very likely be slightly (1 to 2dB) to moderately (3 to 4dB) different between the two headphones (even if the RS meter gave the same SPL). This isn't a "major" level of difference but its more than enough to change a quality perception: for a careful listener, even 1 dB louder will sound better, all else equal. What this means is that to begin to really get a fair assessment of the small differences in amps, all the comparisons need to occur on one set of headphones. If multiple headphones are used, a good break should be taken between cans.

 When all amps are used on the same headphone (sounds like they were), then its more accurate a test if the voltage level into the phones is measured, than if SPL is measured (the voltage to SPL will always be the same on the same phones). Even quite small differences in SPL meter placement will result in notable (easily 1, maybe 2 or 3 dB) reading differences out of the headphones. So even if the meter reads the same in different measures, you could be a couple dB out due to even small differences in placement. With a voltmeter and a careful hand on the amp volume control, you can easily nail this down to 0.1 dB matching. In order to get around any differences caused by amp o/p impedance, I measure the voltage using the actual headphones as the load. Take a y-adapter, cut off one connector, and measure the voltage on the stripped cables. 

 Skylab, I hope you don’t take this as a nock on your results. Your tests are very valuable, and it sounds like you were pretty careful. It’s just that by using a voltmeter instead of an SPL meter, you can helpfully further lessen some of the uncertainty, which may make a difference when comparing amps that are close to each other in SQ. 

 The other benefit beyond accuracy is that it fast to use a voltmeter to adjust the amps. If you don’t have a voltmeter, a PC sound card will work well. The amp o/p is fed into the sound card i/p and monitored. A great deal of freeware exists that will give a fast level measure (e.g. RMAA). 

 Dave

 PS for context: I used to work in audio and at one time spent months in the lab designing/measuring/specing headphones, on everything from head and torso simulators, to telecom pinna to measuring headphones with Etymotic probe mics in ears of real subjects (more like victims; they didn’t take kindly to all the scotch tape running up their neck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). Measuring headphones present some “unique and difficult” (i.e. total PITA) challenges.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kramer5150* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMHO it should be noted that the Practical Devices XM4 has socketable OPamps. Its a dual OP amp design with one chip buffering the other (I think someone please correct me). I think its the only one in the review with this feature. Would it be possible to update your review with some commentary, on which amps have socketed OPamps and which do not?

 What that means is the chips can be rolled for a custom sound that synnergizes with many different cans.

 I wouldn't be surprised if it could rank higher on your preference list with a little OP amp rolling.

 Thanks again for an excellent review, Mods cast my vote for a sticky._

 

This is quite true, that it can have op-amps changed. I probably should have said - I'm not into op-amp rolling, so I did not factor that in. But you're right - for another person, this might change the rankings for them.


----------



## Jahn

i just have to laugh at the size of the larocco versus the other amps. that thing is a beast! didja have to put it right next to a tomahawk like that? hehe. i'd still love to lug it around if it fit my camera bag that i always use for my portable rig (but it doesn't) - and that bag is about as big as i want to go when walking the dog and such, hehe.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jahn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just have to laugh at the size of the larocco versus the other amps. that thing is a beast! didja have to put it right next to a tomahawk like that? hehe. ._

 

As you guessed, I did that on purpose. I love the PRII, but it's a different beast compared to the Tomahawk to be sure.


----------



## silverrain

I'll chime in -- most excellent review -- a "must-read" primer for portable amp considerations. And another x vote for possible sticky status....


----------



## jinp6301

great great review, and i Xnd for a sticky status

 skylab, have you thought have making a value/quality list?


----------



## robm321

Very well done - I appreciate the comparisons.

 I also wish the Xin amps were included, but this will help me get a grasp of where the amps rate without having to sift through thread after thread of opposite opinions.... Thanks again! 

_[size=xx-small](...considering building a portable rig)[/size]_


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great great review, and i Xnd for a sticky status

 skylab, have you thought have making a value/quality list?_

 

That's a very interesting idea, although a tricky one to be sure. Especially when feautres start to come into play, and how valuable they are to different people.

 I know for ME, the Hornet has the best value, even though its the second most espensive, because of its performance versus price, size, features, etc. But in some ways the Headphonia should be the winner, based on its lower price versus its performance and in light of all of its features.

 I think it's best for me to leave the value judgements to each person individually.


----------



## patgod

Skylab, your post is the perfect example of the outstanding thoughtfulness, care and passion that never ceases to amaze me about this site. Great, great job, immensely invaluable, and I also recommend for a sticky. A great post for newbies to get a better understanding of what portables are available.

 One suggestion: Have you thought about linking to the various manufacturers? (if allowed...) I found myself thinking, "hey, I've never heard of THAT amp before, how much is it, where can I get more info?" Just a thought...

 -pat


----------



## Dregur

Hornet & Tomahawk:

www.raysamuelsaudio.com/

 Xenos:

http://www.aptecpro.com/

 LDM+:

www.little-tube.com

 Practical Devices XM-4:

www.practicaldevices.com

 Go-Vibe:

www.go-vibe-headphoneamp.com

 Headphonia:

www.headphonia.com

 Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II: 

http://laroccoaudio.net/pr2/pr2.html

 Don't have a webpage for the Xtra X-1 though...

 Feel free to copy and paste, Skylab, if you want to.

 -The Grinman


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review.

 I'm surprised TH fans aren't up in arms about the Hornet M being higher ranked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why? It's a different and more powerful beast. Did anyone expect the Tomahawk to have BETTER sound than the Hornet M? I know I didn't. I was just hoping it would be close (and still excellent and better than most other portable amps), which apparently it is. There's only so much that can be expected from something this TINY. I love it, but if Skylab had ranked it above the Hornet M, I would have written it off as new-purchase fanboy glee. Heh.

 Definitely agreed on the review itself, though. Very nicely informative! Thanks, Skylab!


----------



## rhymesgalore

Btw, you have missed one VITAL point for the RSA amps, which might be of uttermost importance to the user:

 They work under water














 If this isn't the ultimate feature of all


----------



## JLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? It's a different and more powerful beast. Did anyone expect the Tomahawk to have BETTER sound than the Hornet M? I know I didn't. I was just hoping it would be close (and still excellent and better than most other portable amps), which apparently it is. There's only so much that can be expected from something this TINY. I love it, but if Skylab had ranked it above the Hornet M, I would have written it off as new-purchase fanboy glee. Heh.

 Definitely agreed on the review itself, though. Very nicely informative! Thanks, Skylab!_

 

Ahh yes. I think in general, people who have heard both have voiced the Hornet edges out the TH ever so slightly. Not just 1 month ago, I was seeing threads on why the TH is better and how someone could straight up trade a used TH for a Hornet M (even though the Hornet costs $100 more). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad to see the fanboyism is calming down.


----------



## 3x331m

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a very interesting idea, although a tricky one to be sure. Especially when feautres start to come into play, and how valuable they are to different people.
 ...
 I think it's best for me to leave the value judgements to each person individually._

 

I like this kind of thought..... We, Head-Fiers, are not bunch of air-heads...


----------



## jorgillo

Great job, excellent and very useful review!

 Thanks for sharing, Skylab

 Sorry for my wallet


----------



## intlplby

how does the Pocket Reference II and a PPA compare?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intlplby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does the Pocket Reference II and a PPA compare?_

 

I'm sorry to say I have never heard a PPA. Anyone?


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh yes. I think in general, people who have heard both have voiced the Hornet edges out the TH ever so slightly. Not just 1 month ago, I was seeing threads on why the TH is better and how someone could straight up trade a used TH for a Hornet M (even though the Hornet costs $100 more). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Glad to see the fanboyism is calming down._

 

Oi vey. Yeah, I never had no illusions about that. I always expected the Tomahawk to be "almost as good", which is the only possible reasonable expectation. For my purposes it's a better value than the Hornet or the SR-71 (both of which I seriously considered), simply because 98% of my listening is with IEMs, and these other amps seemed like they would be too powerful, and too difficult to fine-tune the volume to my liking (yeah, I listen on low gain). Plus, the others would be a bit too bulky for me at this point. Even my current H120 -> Tomahawk setup is a little bulky for cramped subway commuting, but it's not TOO bad. It's a trade-off I was willing to make, but I never expected sound quality to be better than these larger, higher voltage amps. That'd be crazy. In fact, I'd be disappointed if that were the case. I need to have Better Hardware to look forward to! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm very, very happy with the 'Hawk, though. It sounds wonderful. Me likey.


----------



## jadalias

Skylab,

 Thanks for the big review, but one thing stuck out at me: these are all portable amps, being tested with a portable source, but the headphones you used are big and probably aren't ones that people will take on the go. What made you decide to use the Beyers instead of the Shures or some Etys or something?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jadalias* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 Thanks for the big review, but one thing stuck out at me: these are all portable amps, being tested with a portable source, but the headphones you used are big and probably aren't ones that people will take on the go. What made you decide to use the Beyers instead of the Shures or some Etys or something?_

 

This is a very good question. For the formal review of the sound of these amps, I wanted to review them with headphones whose sound I was intimately familiar. That was the reason for my choices. Since all of these amps with the exception of RSA Tomahawk are supposed to drive the majority of headphones (and the Tomahawk certainly CAN), it seemed the best approach. None of the headphones I used are so punishing a load that the amps should have struggled to drive them, and none did. I did try each with the Shure E500, but IEMs don't lend themselves all that well to this sort of review.

 But most of all, I wanted to use headphones whose sound I knew like the back of my hand, to really get at the sonic qualities of the amps.


----------



## zippy2001

Skylab,
 Great job on reviewing all of these portable amps, I'm sure it took a lot of time and effort to do all of this. It is very helpful to see all of these compared side by side. It sounds like the Headphonia is a very versatile amp / dac combination. I would love to see this as a sticky, very helpful.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JLai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh yes. I think in general, people who have heard both have voiced the Hornet edges out the TH ever so slightly. Not just 1 month ago, I was seeing threads on why the TH is better and how someone could straight up trade a used TH for a Hornet M (even though the Hornet costs $100 more). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad to see the fanboyism is calming down._

 

Great review, skylab, that must have been a very time consuming. I would call it a true aducational review. Great job my friend. I may add also that since the Tomahawk has been released none has fully matured yet. 120 hours on the Tomahawk against over 400 + hours on the Hornet "M" won't be a fare comparison IMHO as both have 15000mf cap. Give the Tomahawk a little more time.
 I truely enjoyed your write-up.
 Thanks.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review, skylab, that must have been a very time consuming. I would call it a true aducational review. Great job my friend. I may add also that since the Tomahawk has been released none has fully matured yet. 120 hours on the Tomahawk against over 400 + hours on the Hornet "M" won't be a fare comparison IMHO as both have 15000mf cap. Give the Tomahawk a little more time.
 I truely enjoyed your write-up.
 Thanks.
 Ray Samuels_

 

Thanks Ray! I'm sure the Tomahawk will indeed continue to improve. It's already a small marvel.


----------



## aperson

Great review. It's good to see a wide array of amps even if they aren't all in the same price range.

 You've actually convinced me to buy a hornet when I decide to get a new amp, sorry wallet


----------



## jinp6301

now are you gonna have a big sell off, since I dont think you "need" all those headphone amps


----------



## laxx

he's slowly selling them. first the ldm+, not the xm4.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, the LDM+, Go-Vibe, 0HA and XM4 are all sold. Have to clear the decks for the Xenos 1HA and the Larocco ISA Diablo, which I should hopefully get...soon...


----------



## m_memmory

I think this also tells us a bit about your preference for each ... the ones that you sell are (obviously) the ones that aren't good enough to satisfy your audio wants/requirements.

 (not to say that they aren't perfect for someone elses wants/requirements of course)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m_memmory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this also tells us a bit about your preference for each ... the ones that you sell are (obviously) the ones that aren't good enough to satisfy your audio wants/requirements.

 (not to say that they aren't perfect for someone elses wants/requirements of course)_

 

No doubt, since I don't even need the number of amps I AM keeping, that I am keeping the ones I liked too much to part with only. But there are some people that will really like them. The Go-Vibe especially I think will really make someone happy who has the right headphones for its unique sonic signature.


----------



## *645-k701

Fantastic review. Big thanks..


----------



## jamato8

Excellent comparative study of the amps. Not an easy task and it would drive me nuts after a while. Thank you for the hard work that you appear to have enjoyed and for sharing the results in a very readable form.


----------



## fuzydice

good review. would have liked to see how the go-vibe v5 compares to the rest of the pack when listened to with the elpac psu, but that obviously isn't fair to the other amps listed and would require a lot more testing and such and so forth. Otherwise, thanks for the time and effort put into this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Very informative and a great starting point for portable amp purchases who sole use will be with batteries.


----------



## inconnu

Thanks for the nice review. I would only have liked to see the mSEED LABS Faith AMP included in it, besides the XTRA X-1. Perhaps the C&C BOX too...and while I'm at it, the Minibox-E.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *inconnu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the nice review. I would only have liked to see the mSEED LABS Faith AMP included in it, besides the XTRA X-1. Perhaps the C&C BOX too...and while I'm at it, the Minibox-E. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I actually wanted to include the mSeed, but I kept losing the EBay auctions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I will get one and add it when I add the Xenos 1HA, which seems to have shipped.


----------



## cansman

Thanks Skylab for the professional review. I have just received my Tomahawk today and am already quite amazed at its performance. It even drives the HD650s really well - something that I did not expect at all.

 BTW, I also enjoy the sound of Jan Meier's amps like yourself.

 Thanks again and cheers,
 cansman


----------



## MaN227

very informative , very professional , yet presented in a easy to digest way for those of us that are new to this ummmm addic... hobby 

 look forward to your doing more reviews of amps and/or cans. 

 a MUST sticky IMO


----------



## MrJoshua

Mr Skyab Sir...

 Have you received your replacement X1 yet?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrJoshua* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mr Skyab Sir...

 Have you received your replacement X1 yet?_

 

As of yet, no. But I doubt the defective one has even made it to China yet.


----------



## velogreg

Wow skylab fantastic and very professional review. You have reinforced my satisfaction in selecting (and luck) the PRII to be my first portable amp. Somehow this needs to become a reference source for all those newly traveling down the expensive slippery slope of portable ampland.


----------



## gmckay

Thank you for the well organized and very informative review.

 I put a great deal of stock in reviews of this nature.

 Good job!


----------



## wlai

another thumbs up!


----------



## Skylab

I have purchased a couple other portable amps since I first published this review, the Xenos 1HA-EPC and the iBasso P-1, and I got my Xtra X-1 repaired unit back. I have run the new amps through the full battery of tests described above. I have added full comments on the X-1. I have not done so on the Xenos or iBasso amps, but will as time permits. I have decided to do an updated rankings. These are all now in the original review post.

 EDIT: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE UPDATE before commenting. As I indicate there, since I no longer have the Practical Devices XM4, I could not decide directly between the iBasso and the XM4, so I list them as a TIE.


----------



## Morph201

So, #3 and #4 in your list are definite? Would you consider it a close enough tie?? Hmmm...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, #3 and #4 in your list are definite? Would you consider it a close enough tie?? Hmmm..._

 

They are indeed very close, and of course, slightly different. From the Headphonia amp on up, the amps were good enough that I could live with any of them happily. They all produced that "WOW that sounds great" feeling consistantly.

 Below that, the amps for me were missing enough that I wasn't impressed enough to say I would be completely satisfied over the long haul.


----------



## EnOYiN

I just got a Porta Corda MkIII-USB in the mail today. But it is not on this list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great reviews though. I really liked reading them. Maybe you can try to get people to send you portable amps for free just to test them.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EnOYiN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a Porta Corda MkIII-USB in the mail today. But it is not on this list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Great reviews though. I really liked reading them. Maybe you can try to get people to send you portable amps for free just to test them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wish I did have the ability to test even more amps, I really enjoy doing it. But buying them all does get expensive, and eventually I have to sell them.

 I had a PCIII a little over a year ago. I thought it sounded excellent. I sold it because I really don't like portable amps that don't have rechargable batteries. The RSA Tomahawk is an exception, since the batteries last almost 500 hours


----------



## slwiser

My AE-1 battery last last least 100 hours. I don't let it go much longer than that before charging.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish I did have the ability to test even more amps, I really enjoy doing it. But buying them all does get expensive, and eventually I have to sell them.

 I had a PCIII a little over a year ago. I thought it sounded excellent. I sold it because I really don't like portable amps that don't have rechargable batteries. The RSA Tomahawk is an exception, since the batteries last almost 500 hours 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## saint.panda

Phenomenal review. Succinct, very broad coverage, not shunning from being "politically incorrect", and great comments about customer service. I understand only too well what you mean by Larocco Audio's idiosyncratic customer service, and not even in a necessarily bad way.


----------



## chris_ah1

Just wondering even though I know you don't like the xin way of doing stuff - but whereabouts in the pile do the supermini and supermacro come?

 It seems that the supermini especially is competitive in terms of features and form factor.....and the supermacro for customisation. But how do they sound in the lineup? Do they have that 'wow'?


----------



## slwiser

Anyone wanting their amps compared could offer to send them to him for a more complete review.

 Any takers? I have already offered my AE-1.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris_ah1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering even though I know you don't like the xin way of doing stuff - but whereabouts in the pile do the supermini and supermacro come?

 It seems that the supermini especially is competitive in terms of features and form factor.....and the supermacro for customisation. But how do they sound in the lineup? Do they have that 'wow'?_


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris_ah1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wondering even though I know you don't like the xin way of doing stuff - but whereabouts in the pile do the supermini and supermacro come?

 It seems that the supermini especially is competitive in terms of features and form factor.....and the supermacro for customisation. But how do they sound in the lineup? Do they have that 'wow'?_

 

I owned a Xin SuperMacro 3 V6 for 6 months or so. It was a very good amp - definitely in the class of amps that for me has that WOW factor, yes. Never heard any of the other XIN amps.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone wanting their amps compared could offer to send them to him for a more complete review.

 Any takers? I have already offered my AE-1._

 

Slwiser has, in fact, kindly offered to loan me his AE-1 - I will review it and add it in


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone wanting their amps compared could offer to send them to him for a more complete review.

 Any takers? I have already offered my AE-1._

 

Steve, has your AE-1 been updated by Justin to the latest spec?


----------



## slwiser

No it has not but and don't know that Justin will actually do that up-date for us but it is good enough for this comparison anyway. Maybe someone with the new AE-2 will also send it to him.

 Mine is well broken in...It has the serial number of 002.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steve, has your AE-1 been updated by Justin to the latest spec?_


----------



## benriddell

Has anyone any word on the rumoured pro version of the xtra x1?
 When will it be released? What are the mods? How much? etc etc


----------



## jamato8

I can iquire but last I heard it was still a few weeks off. It will have more power and some other changes that have not been mentioned and will cost about 10 more dollars in China or about 20 more in the US and other places.


----------



## karma

Would the Tomahawk improve sound when the source is the headphone-out of a DAP?

 I ask because my Rio Carbon doesn't have a line-out, and I'm considering the Tomahawk to pair with my e500. There's an annoying hiss when I use my e500 direct from the Carbon, and I'm interested in the Tomahawk given its reputation for no noise. 

 However, would I notice any sonic improvements given the lack of line-out?


----------



## nsjong

Is it just me or did you only take sound into consideration?

 I think price and portability counts as well?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsjong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it just me or did you only take sound into consideration?

 I think price and portability counts as well?_

 

You are right on both counts. I specifically did not factor price or size into my rankings - my rating was ONLY about sound.

 Price, and value, are not for me to judge. I did periodically indicate that I thought an amp was very good for the money, or was great for the size, but this review was purely to assess sound quality.


----------



## chuckles

Howdy Skylab! Time for me to start chiming in and boost my post count (you know what I mean!).

 Thank you for a most thorough and insightful review. I decided to go with the Xin SuperMini IV, which I hope to see at my doorstep in this lifetime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The price was right along with it's extreme portablity for tucking in my back pocket on long road rides, crossfeed settings, et al and I'm not in that big that a hurry for its arrival. Xin actaully emailed me stating it would take two weeks. It has already been longer than that, so we shall see.


----------



## chuckles

I would also like to say 'hi' to everyone here. Skylab turned me on to headfi awhile back and I have been lurking/researching for the last month or so, looking into headphones and portable amps. What a GREAT place this is, chock full of all sorts of information. I am glad to have found it.


----------



## actorlife

Great review! Will you be trying the C & C Box amp soon?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chuckles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would also like to say 'hi' to everyone here. Skylab turned me on to headfi awhile back and I have been lurking/researching for the last month or so, looking into headphones and portable amps. What a GREAT place this is, chock full of all sorts of information. I am glad to have found it._

 

Chuck - it's great to have you here!

 Sorry for your wallet, though


----------



## chuckles

Well my wife held my feet to the fire for a bit, but ended up just shaking her head in disbelief, or rather, complete inability to understand such things...but if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, is my motto!!!


----------



## nickknutson

My wallet started on fire last week....


----------



## jamato8

Skylab, if you still have the iBasso P1 you need to try it with the AD8620, just a bit of difference I think.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, if you still have the iBasso P1 you need to try it with the AD8620, just a bit of difference I think._

 

I do still have it, but as I have stated before, I don't op-amp roll. Just not my thing.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do still have it, but as I have stated before, I don't op-amp roll. Just not my thing._

 

Ok but too bad because it opens the amp up with the clarity of the C&C but with a fuller sound.


----------



## Lectorcito

Skylab, have you ever listened to the Total BitHead? I am curious as to how it would rank in your list.


----------



## jpmarotta

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have purchased a couple other portable amps since I first published this review, the Xenos 1HA-EPC and the iBasso P-1, and I got my Xtra X-1 repaired unit back. I have run the new amps through the full battery of tests described above. I have added full comments on the X-1. I have not done so on the Xenos or iBasso amps, but will as time permits. I have decided to do an updated rankings. These are all now in the original review post.

 EDIT: PLEASE READ THE WHOLE UPDATE before commenting. As I indicate there, since I no longer have the Practical Devices XM4, I could not decide directly between the iBasso and the XM4, so I list them as a TIE._

 

Hey Sky-

 Any updaties on a full review of the Xenos? I'm looking to pick one up for my work rig, would like to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Troy1x

Man that Headphonia amp looks real tempting, feature rich and affordable. 

 I was wondering if I placed a order for the 3 swtich usb dac version would I get the old version if I ordered now or would I be placed in line for the newer version?

 Thanks,
 Troy


----------



## Ross1

Just to say thanks skylab, you helped 'reassure' me that the headphonia would be a good purchase. I think I am going to be receiving the new improved model too, and he said you reviewed the old model


----------



## Lectorcito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Troy1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man that Headphonia amp looks real tempting, feature rich and affordable. 

 I was wondering if I placed a order for the 3 swtich usb dac version would I get the old version if I ordered now or would I be placed in line for the newer version?

 Thanks,
 Troy_

 

You'd get the newer model. I've read it somewhere in the Headphonia forums: http://www.headphonia.org/forum/index.php


----------



## Ross1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lectorcito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'd get the newer model. I've read it somewhere in the Headphonia forums: http://www.headphonia.org/forum/index.php_

 

He said to me that if I couldnt wait for the new model, he could sent me the current model and then just swap it once the new model is ready, which seems very nice of him.
 But I can wait.


----------



## Troy1x

Ahhh... I see. Might have to put a order in soon, should be a decent upgrade from the PA2v2.

 -Troy


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Troy1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...should be a decent upgrade from the PA2v2._

 

Nevermind...


----------



## nep

i think i will spring for one of these. if only they were a little more attractive


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lectorcito* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, have you ever listened to the Total BitHead? I am curious as to how it would rank in your list._

 

My first portable amp was a Total Airhead. But that was over 2 years ago. I have not heard the newer version. So it's very hard to say where it would rank since I haven't heard it in such a long time.

 w/r/t the Xenos, I will try to get to the full review on it next week.


----------



## YoungRizzo

This thread was very informative. Thanks for all the great posts!


----------



## RasmusseN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vo328* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the review, Skylab! Have you ever listened to the Headroom Micro amp? If so, any thoughts on how it compared with the amps you reviewed?_

 

*x2*

 by the way great review we need more of these types of reviews. I would also really enjoy a desktop type of review instead of portable :-D


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RasmusseN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*x2*

 by the way great review we need more of these types of reviews. I would also really enjoy a desktop type of review instead of portable :-D_

 

The biggest problem with a large home-amp review is that if I wanted to buy them all (like I did here) it would cost many thousands of dollars...


----------



## m_memmory

Heck - I bet that just doing the portable roundup cost a fair amount in total as well! However I suppose there's always the chance of, seeing as so many seem to love your reviewing style and opinions, that some people might be willing to lend you an amp or two to review ... just an idea.

 And no - I'm not offering mine. I've only got the one desktop amp (my Aria) and it's not leaving me as I'd be left with nothing!


----------



## EnOYiN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *m_memmory* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heck - I bet that just doing the portable roundup cost a fair amount in total as well! However I suppose there's always the chance of, seeing as so many seem to love your reviewing style and opinions, that some people might be willing to lend you an amp or two to review ... just an idea.

 And no - I'm not offering mine. I've only got the one desktop amp (my Aria) and it's not leaving me as I'd be left with nothing!_

 

Well..I think it would be really cool if some people would. But the main problem with high end desktop amps is that you've got to murder about ten people before you can afford just one of them. And I think that is the reason that a lot of people will not part easily with them.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, and to be honest, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable borrowing expensive amps from people, even if they really were willing. It's just not in my nature. And I definitely don't want to "borrow" them from their makers (not that any have ever asked me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) - that is too much pressure. I like being free to say what I really feel is right.

 So for the time being, a home amp roundup is not likely, I'm sorry to say. My home-amp budget is shot after buying the (wonderful) Meier Corda Opera.


----------



## Gonz

The worst part of borrowing is that shipping is not kind to electronics.


----------



## KrooLism

Thanks for the review


----------



## nrwilk

@Skylab
 May I ask how well a job the Headphonia w/ USB DAC does with driving your dt770/80s? I am getting a pair for portable use, and I also want to get an amp/DAC combo for them. I really like the Headphonia in almost every regard, but I'd like to make sure that it will do a good job in utilizing the dt770/80's full potential.

 I noticed that you give it a very nice review, and this encourages me.

 Thank you!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nrwilk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Skylab
 May I ask how well a job the Headphonia w/ USB DAC does with driving your dt770/80s? I am getting a pair for portable use, and I also want to get an amp/DAC combo for them. I really like the Headphonia in almost every regard, but I'd like to make sure that it will do a good job in utilizing the dt770/80's full potential.

 I noticed that you give it a very nice review, and this encourages me.

 Thank you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, actually, the Headphonia is a very good match with DT770/80's.


----------



## Mojo777

Skylab,
 I know this is apples and oranges but I have the Hornet and wanted to know if I would gain anything sonically if I bought Xcan V3? I am very new to all of this and would like to know some of your thoughts?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mojo777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,
 I know this is apples and oranges but I have the Hornet and wanted to know if I would gain anything sonically if I bought Xcan V3? I am very new to all of this and would like to know some of your thoughts?_

 

In general, I think home amps offer better performance for home use, but I have never heard an XCan.


----------



## nrwilk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, actually, the Headphonia is a very good match with DT770/80's._

 

Thank you, Skylab. This has pretty much sealed the deal for me. I just need to find out if the DAC will work on Linux systems. If it does, I'm going to get one.

 Yay! I'm excited.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mojo777* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,
 I know this is apples and oranges but I have the Hornet and wanted to know if I would gain anything sonically if I bought Xcan V3? I am very new to all of this and would like to know some of your thoughts?_

 

The most difference would be on sonic signature, Xcan V3 has a brighter tube sound. Like most other amp, it would not suitable for everyone and how it match the characteristics of the headphone with your favorite. Personally, I like warmer classical tube sound.


----------



## rhester

I have had had both amps (X Can V3 and The Hornet M). The X Can I thought was a better overall amp, it allowed me to look a little more itno the music - maybe it had a little more "blackness". But it is not portable and that portability to me is worth in minute amount of sound quality that you might gain from the X Can.


----------



## tracyrick

"Listening was done with the levels matched to within 1db using a RS SPL meter, so that the listening volume level was identical with each amp. Source was a RedWineAudio iMod iPod, connected with an RnB Audio interconnect"

 Sorry if someone has already asked this, but how did you hook up the RS meter to your headphones?

 I'm actually looking for a way to do this with my Ety ER-4P/S I.E.M.'s but so far it seems like an impossible idea...


----------



## GlorytheWiz825

Just saw this thread. Great review.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Listening was done with the levels matched to within 1db using a RS SPL meter, so that the listening volume level was identical with each amp. Source was a RedWineAudio iMod iPod, connected with an RnB Audio interconnect"

 Sorry if someone has already asked this, but how did you hook up the RS meter to your headphones?

 I'm actually looking for a way to do this with my Ety ER-4P/S I.E.M.'s but so far it seems like an impossible idea..._

 

No way I know of to do this with IEM's. Here is how to do it with full-sized cans:


----------



## Skylab

Xenos 1HA-EPC added today. iBasso P1 and Headamp AE1 will be added tomorrow.


----------



## Morph201

Oh man... Do I REALLY want to read this?!?!?! I mean, I already made the switch Skylab! C'mon!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *ahem* that was just wrong, and you know what I mean... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the Xenos amps are now 249.99 for the 1HA-EPC and 199.99 for the EPT... Oh, add 15.00 for shipping! Make that 29.18 for 3-5 day Xpresspost! 

 but, anyway, based on those stats doesn't your ranking shift? And if not, then why not????


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh man... Do I REALLY want to read this?!?!?! I mean, I already made the switch Skylab! C'mon!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *ahem* that was just wrong, and you know what I mean... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, the Xenos amps are now 249.99 for the 1HA-EPC and 199.99 for the EPT... Oh, add 15.00 for shipping! Make that 29.18 for 3-5 day Xpresspost! 

 but, anyway, based on those stats doesn't your ranking shift? And if not, then why not????_

 

No, my ranking doesn't change. The TH and the 1HA are neck and neck, but in the end, the TH wins by a hair. But it's close, and they are certainly very different beasts. Both amps are awesome.


----------



## Morph201

*ahem* *cough* *cough*, and the Hornet?????????????????? 

 The TH is EXTREMELY small compared to the Xenos.. for the size and weight it should be better than a hair close,no?

 Ok, I am officially done with this site... I can't take it anymore! My wallet is screamin'...my wife is ready to beat me down again!! This isn't right! How did I come across this site anway?!!??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *sigh*


----------



## Skylab

Review fully updated with Xenos 1HA, Headamp AE-1, and iBasso P1.


----------



## slwiser

Now if we can just get a moderator to update the title to the total number of amps reviewed to twelve.

 Great review Skylab....

 Now we need Justin to send you an AE-2 to include in this review.

 The AE-1 has a 150 hour rechargeable battery life which is a deal maker for me.

 Skylab, is it possible to include a listing/table for each with their projected battery life under best practices?

 In your conclusion you state that the Headphonia got to a certain performance point of enjoyment. You also stated in the AE-1 write-up that it was comparable to the Headphonia. Should the conclusion either add the AE-1 or delete the Headphonia unit? 

 Note: 

 (in conclusion)--"a real threshold of performance that made some of the amps sound so good that I was often awed by the sound, where as some simply did not get there. The two RSA amps, the Headphonia, and the Lorocco got to this point for me, but none of the others did. Is this a function of price? I’m not sure, since a Headphonia without all the features I included would be just $130. It’s multifactorial I am sure. "


 (in AE-1 write-up)--"maybe on par with the Headphonia sonically,"


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In your conclusion you state that the Headphonia got to a certain performance point of enjoyment. You also stated in the AE-1 write-up that it was comparable to the Headphonia. Should the conclusion either add the AE-1 or delete the Headphonia unit? 

 Note: 

 (in conclusion)--"a real threshold of performance that made some of the amps sound so good that I was often awed by the sound, where as some simply did not get there. The two RSA amps, the Headphonia, and the Lorocco got to this point for me, but none of the others did. Is this a function of price? I’m not sure, since a Headphonia without all the features I included would be just $130. It’s multifactorial I am sure. "


 (in AE-1 write-up)--"maybe on par with the Headphonia sonically,"_

 

Slwiser, thanks so much for the loan of the AE-1. You're correct that an update conclusion would INCLUDE the AE-1 (and the Xenos 1HA) in that group of amps that gave me that wow factor. I haven't gone back to edit the original text. But the AE-1 and the 1HA join the RSA amps, the Headphonia, and the Larocco as the amps that never felt "in the way", but rather made me REALLY fired up to listen to music.


----------



## Asr

Thanks for adding the AE-1 Skylab, much appreciated. Now I have a frame of reference as to where the others sit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I fully agree with the comments on the AE-1 too. Incidentally, I'm listening to it right now. If my Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed mini-review made it look bad, that was unintentional, I didn't mean to say the AE-1 was a bad amp, just not quite at the level of the V2^2 in terms of extension especially. Extension issues aside, the AE-1 is really a fantastic amp, and listening to it now just makes me more and more anxious for the AE-2. For the first time I'm finally using the AE-1 with my highest-end IC, Signal Cable's Silver Resolution Analog (it's usually chained to my system via the loop outs on the other amps and the IC going into it is usually a silver-core, copper-plated-plug RCA/mini), and the sound I'm hearing is just *so* open and expansive. I feel the amp's greatest strength is the soundstage & imaging - that was my original initial impression when I first got it, and that's what I'm still hearing now. The imaging is so wide and deep, wow! If the AE-2 retains this while fixing the extension, OMG it'll be the next portable amp killer!


----------



## ecclesand

Hey Skylab...didn't you just pick up a C&C Box amp? How does it stack up against the other amps you reviewed/tested?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Skylab...didn't you just pick up a C&C Box amp? How does it stack up against the other amps you reviewed/tested?_

 

I ordered one in the group buy, but it hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## John_M

Skylab, could you give us a run down of which amps hiss the least?


----------



## Morph201

Yeah! Give us a run down! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 PS: Out of all the amps I've sampled so far, the blackest was the hornet and TH, as far as portables.. not sure about Xin's, but I wouldn't expect anything less from him!


----------



## Skylab

The Quietest amps were the Hornet, Tomahawk, and the Headphonia, and AE-1, which are all completely silent. All the others exhibited a very small amount of hiss at the top of their volume controls, which could vary slightly with the headphone used, but none made audible hiss at a normal listening level.


----------



## spukee

Skylab - first of all - thanks for the great review. It was your review that made me take that final plunge of purchasing the Headphonia.

 You're quote:
 "has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music, like the Headphonia, Hornet, and the PRII."

 --Is totally accurate!

 I have a Corda Aria to compare the headphonia with, and when using the K701s, I can easily tell that the Aria is a lot more refined.

 However.

 There's something about the Headphonia's presentation that I like. I'd describe it as being very "up-front" which is a feature I like about my MS1s, but never got with the Aria+K701, because it was a slightly laid back amp with a headphone that had the same quality.

 Great amp. It sounds a lot more expensive than it looks! Highly recommended! BTW, I have the 3 switch version, with the new AD8397 opamp.


----------



## John_M

Skylab - when you say completely silent, do you mean with IEMs or full size headphones?

 I know you have some Shure E500s - what are the amps like with them?


----------



## Morph201

Regarding the Hornet and Tomahawk, COMPLETELY quiet with IEMs and full-sized cans!!


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John_M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - when you say completely silent, do you mean with IEMs or full size headphones?

 I know you have some Shure E500s - what are the amps like with them?_

 

Both, I've used both, the TH and the Hornet, with full size cans and my E500's....dead silent.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John_M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - when you say completely silent, do you mean with IEMs or full size headphones?

 I know you have some Shure E500s - what are the amps like with them?_

 


 Yes, even with IEM's. All of the amps I thought were really excellent worked well with the E500 except for the Larocco PRII, which just had too much gain. I have ordered a PRII mk2, since it has a gain switch, and it seems that I may actually get it soon (fingers crossed). If so, I will indicate if this makes it a good match with the E500.

 For anyone using ONLY the E500 with a portable amp, then I really have to recommend the Tomahawk strongly. It's a great sonic match, and if using just with an IEM, the size of the TH is just such a huge advantage. I have a tiny little bag that holds the TH, a 8GB iPod Nano, an ALO cryo micro LOD, and my E500's - this is my "stealth" rig, and it's tiny. The 80GB iPod in the YoTalk iTank case with the Xenos 1HA, ALO Cotton, and Senn HD25-1's is about 5 times the size and 10 times the weight


----------



## John_M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, even with IEM's. All of the amps I thought were really excellent worked well with the E500 except for the Larocco PRII, which just had too much gain. I have ordered a PRII mk2, since it has a gain switch, and it seems that I may actually get it soon (fingers crossed). If so, I will indicate if this makes it a good match with the E500.

 For anyone using ONLY the E500 with a portable amp, then I really have to recommend the Tomahawk strongly. It's a great sonic match, and if using just with an IEM, the size of the TH is just such a huge advantage. I have a tiny little bag that holds the TH, a 8GB iPod Nano, an ALO cryo micro LOD, and my E500's - this is my "stealth" rig, and it's tiny. The 80GB iPod in the YoTalk iTank case with the Xenos 1HA, ALO Cotton, and Senn HD25-1's is about 5 times the size and 10 times the weight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. FYI I have a PRII mk2 and it's unfortunately quite hissy with E500s...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John_M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. FYI I have a PRII mk2 and it's unfortunately quite hissy with E500s..._

 

Even in low gain mode?


----------



## John_M

The version I have has a volume attenuator switch on the back. I'm not entirely sure that's what you mean. The PRII still hisses when it's set to on.


----------



## Gautama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even in low gain mode?_

 

What is gain?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John_M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The version I have has a volume attenuator switch on the back. I'm not entirely sure that's what you mean. The PRII still hisses when it's set to on._

 

Hmmmm...not sure. I hope to get my PRII mk 2 next week, and then I'll have more to say :-}

 Gautama, "gain" is essentially another way to describe amplification - amplifiers have gain, -- it's how an amp makes things louder.


----------



## John_M

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm...not sure. I hope to get my PRII mk 2 next week, and then I'll have more to say :-}

 Gautama, "gain" is essentially another way to describe amplification - amplifiers have gain, -- it's how an amp makes things louder._

 

Does your version have a little volume attenuator switch on the back? If not, seems pretty likely that I've got the MKII version. It only arrived v recently (and I had to wait a long time for it, as well!)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John_M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does your version have a little volume attenuator switch on the back? If not, seems pretty likely that I've got the MKII version. It only arrived v recently (and I had to wait a long time for it, as well!)_

 

Mine hasn't arrived yet - hopefully soon.


----------



## Pete7

That's a gain switch on the back of that PR II. Down should be low gain, and up should be high or regular gain. And yes, the PR II with AD744 in output bypass mode does produce more hiss than any other op-amps I tried with it, doubt if even a low gain setting could improve that.


----------



## DJShadow

I have a very simple question concerning the Hornet: are both the sockets 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch? From all the photos I've seen I think its 1/4' but I keep thinking to myself its portable so it must have 1/8' sockets


----------



## rhymesgalore

Both are 1/8, the thing is just damn small^^


----------



## DJShadow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhymesgalore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both are 1/8, the thing is just damn small^^_

 

(sighs) back into the wallet again


----------



## tbonner1

Hi Sky,
 Can you clarify the "wow factor" a bit? Is this a description of the dynamic sound of one amp vs. another?


----------



## ecclesand

Hey Sky....great review! I've referred back to it several times now.

 Quick question...have you tried swapping the opamp in the PD XM4? I've been exchanging emails with the Ebay seller and have been told that an AD8620 opamp mounted on a so8-dip adapter would probably "not fit".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tbonner1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Sky,
 Can you clarify the "wow factor" a bit? Is this a description of the dynamic sound of one amp vs. another?_

 

For me, it's simply the goose bump test - when I listen to music to a given amp, do I get that "WOW this sounds good!" feeling, or does the amp have too many compromises/limitations for me to get that feeling.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Sky....great review! I've referred back to it several times now.

 Quick question...have you tried swapping the opamp in the PD XM4? I've been exchanging emails with the Ebay seller and have been told that an AD8620 opamp mounted on a so8-dip adapter would probably "not fit".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!_

 

Thanks for the kind words. As mentioned in the review, I don;t op-amp roll, and so all my comments refer to the op-amps as supplied by the manufacturer.


----------



## cooperpwc

This is a great thread, Skylab. I can't wait to hear your views of the Lorocco Diablo when you get it. It looks rather interesting...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a great thread, Skylab. I can't wait to hear your views of the Lorocco Diablo when you get it. It looks rather interesting..._

 

I assume that someday I will actually get the Diablo. I do plan to spend some quality time with the Larocco PRII mk2 version that I just got this week, and will report on that.


----------



## cooperpwc

Ah, so I that's not the Larocco that you reviewed. I see now that that was the Audio Pocket Reference II. The Mk2 is assumedly an upgrade but no smaller. Look forward to hearing how it has changed.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, so I that's not the Larocco that you reviewed. I see now that that was the Audio Pocket Reference II. The Mk2 is assumedly an upgrade but no smaller. Look forward to hearing how it has changed._

 

I added the following note to the original review today:

 **** UPDATE 2/20/07: I got my PRII mk 2 last week. It was a 3 month wait, and was kind of angst-ridden, but I have it. And it is awesome, no doubt about it. While I do not have the original PRII to compare it to, it easily betters every portable amp I currently have. There is no doubt that the PRII mk 2 is still the king of the hill, as far as I am concerned. If anything, I'd upgrade the soundstaging to an A, and also note that in low gain mode only my E500's hiss. The PRII is still not a good choice for IEM users. But otherwise - it's the best portable amp I have ever heard. Larocco Audio can be frustrating to deal with, but this amp is great.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I added the following note to the original review today:

 **** UPDATE 2/20/07: I got my PRII mk 2 last week. It was a 3 month wait, and was kind of angst-ridden, but I have it. And it is awesome, no doubt about it. While I do not have the original PRII to compare it to, it easily betters every portable amp I currently have. There is no doubt that the PRII mk 2 is still the king of the hill, as far as I am concerned. If anything, I'd upgrade the soundstaging to an A, and also note that in low gain mode only my E500's hiss. The PRII is still not a good choice for IEM users. But otherwise - it's the best portable amp I have ever heard. Larocco Audio can be frustrating to deal with, but this amp is great._

 

Vorlon1 has the 1st gen of the LaRocco PRII, he had them lower the gain and added the AD744 op-amp. I believe it is a killer amp, and IMO only one portable bested it. Yes the Supermicro IV.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Vorlon1 has the 1st gen of the LaRocco PRII, he had them lower the gain and added the AD744 op-amp. I believe it is a killer amp, and IMO only one portable bested it. Yes the Supermicro IV._

 

Faaaaaaaaanboi! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 (kiddin)..


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Vorlon1 has the 1st gen of the LaRocco PRII, he had them lower the gain and added the AD744 op-amp. I believe it is a killer amp, and IMO only one portable bested it. Yes the Supermicro IV._

 

I would love to hear a Supermicro IV. I have no intention of ever buying one, and I don't really miss my Supermacro IV, which I felt was inferior to the PRII. But I'd love to listen to the SupermicroIV.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would love to hear a Supermicro IV. I have no intention of ever buying one, and I don't really miss my Supermacro IV, which I felt was inferior to the PRII. But I'd love to listen to the SupermicroIV._

 

When I get out of some "issues" I will get one and will gladly send it your way for a week. But it has to come back to me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I get out of some "issues" I will get one and will gladly send it your way for a week. But it has to come back to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks, I may take you up on that. It would be nice to have a Xin amp on this review.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I get out of some "issues" I will get one and will gladly send it your way for a week. But it has to come back to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What opamps are you using? I've compared the Macro IV to the Hornet and find the Hornet superior in almost every way. I'm waiting on some opamps so this may change but I don't see it going from night to day. I've also compared the PRII with the OPA627, AD744 and AD8397 and still found the Hornet superior; only with the AD8397 did the PRII come close and even then the Hornet still had an edge when it came to imaging.


----------



## Skylab

I also have the following amps in house which I plan to add to the review - Portaphile V2.2, Xenos OHA-REP, C&C Box V2.


----------



## jinp6301

isint the battery life of the LaRocco really bad?

 from what I read from your review, I'm still favoring the headphonia for the features - USB DAC, Crossfeed, gain and impedance matching, a Class-A mode, battery charger which makes it a crazy value. The only thing thats missing is op-amp changing and maybe a bass boost button.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_isint the battery life of the LaRocco really bad?
_

 

Compared to what? It's pretty comparable to most of the amps in this survey, other than the Tomahawk.


----------



## slwiser

mrarroyo

 Skylab was good for it when I sent him my AE-1. I got mine back in short order.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I get out of some "issues" I will get one and will gladly send it your way for a week. But it has to come back to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compared to what? It's pretty comparable to most of the amps in this survey, other than the Tomahawk._

 

ooh ok, I seemed to have read somewhere that the battery life was really short. Probably my memory is crappy. 

 Question: how did the class A amplifier thing change the sound of the headphonia?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question: how did the class A amplifier thing change the sound of the headphonia?_

 

It made the amp more transparent sounding, and by a decent margin. It's actually one of the most attractive features of the amp. Since I use a rechargeable battery, I am not concerned about huge battery time - much more interested in the better sound.


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It made the amp more transparent sounding, and by a decent margin. It's actually one of the most attractive features of the amp. Since I use a rechargeable battery, I am not concerned about huge battery time - much more interested in the better sound._

 

good to hear, i definitely need to hear it!


----------



## thekid22

Skylab, I know you had (even if not for long) an IBasso T1... any chance we'll get some more detailed thoughts or a write up of it?

 thanks!
 your comparison is pretty awesome... (I've read every post in the thread over the past few weeks!)


----------



## srikeerthi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thekid22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I know you had (even if not for long) an IBasso T1... any chance we'll get some more detailed thoughts or a write up of it?

 thanks!
 your comparison is pretty awesome... (I've read every post in the thread over the past few weeks!)_

 

Yeah, I even I would be interested to see how the mini amp compares to the rest of them. There seems to be no other detailed review for the ibasso T1


----------



## reivaj

just got done reading this and i must say its very good!


----------



## vold

waiting for your review of the C&C box v2!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thekid22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I know you had (even if not for long) an IBasso T1... any chance we'll get some more detailed thoughts or a write up of it?

 thanks!
 your comparison is pretty awesome... (I've read every post in the thread over the past few weeks!)_

 

Yes, I listened to and made notes on the T1, I will add it along with the others in the next few days, (I hope...)


----------



## SteveM324

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Extension issues aside, the AE-1 is really a fantastic amp, and listening to it now just makes me more and more anxious for the AE-2. ... If the AE-2 retains this while fixing the extension, OMG it'll be the next portable amp killer! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Headamp is shipping the AE-2 now. I just spoke with Justin this morning and he will be shipping my AE-2 in about a week. He told me that the AE-2 includes significant changes to the AE-1 including a new circuit, 3 times more output but battery life is reduced to 30-40 hrs, 3 way gain switch, laser etching, and amp is available in silver as well as black now. The new circuit and higher output should significantly improve the sound. I'm willing to sacrifice some battery life (still more than enough for me) for improved sound. This should be a very nice portable amp with a lot of versatility.


----------



## askforwhy

Great work, but why not take IEMs in your reviews?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *askforwhy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great work, but why not take IEMs in your reviews?_

 

I did listen to each amp with the E500's. But I did not use them as the main review headphones because:

 1. I am more familiar with the sound of my full-sized headphones
 2. My full size headphones sound better and are more revealing
 3. Level-matching with IEMs is impossible, and level-matching is 100% essential to any comparison like this, as little changes in volume can totally skew the impressions.


----------



## aaronylee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vold* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_waiting for your review of the C&C box v2!!_

 

I am also eagerly waiting to hear what you think of the C&C amp!

 Thanks so much for your hard work!


----------



## aaronylee

Any chance on getting a quick preview on the C&C? I'm getting antsy without an amp powering my cans...


----------



## Skylab

I am going to do all of these this weekend. My quick view on the C&C is that it has a robust sound, but is somewhat grainy in the treble. Not a fatal flaw, and a decent amp for the money, but so far, I prefer the slightly less expensive iBasso P1. Just my $.02. More later.


----------



## hon

aaronylee, I'd add some more info of iBasso P1 and C&C box for you as a "preview" of Skylab's full review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soundwise, iBasso P1 sounds great out-of-the-box, smooth and neutral. C&C Box is not as neutral, it has more emphases on lows and highs but it will become more balance and smooth after long hours of burn-in. The C&C Box got functions like bass boost, vocal boost and sound stage boost that are interesting to play with. (I found the sound stage boost particularly useful) Both amps are of good build quality, the C&C Box is handy and small, iBasso P1 is a bit heavy but size still OK. As for battery life, the C&C Box definitely got an upper hand. Last but not least, they both are like a hundred bucks, the iBasso P1 is a little bit cheaper.


----------



## Assorted

Is there a reason why the SR71 wasn't included? Are they that similar to the Hornet?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Assorted* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a reason why the SR71 wasn't included? Are they that similar to the Hornet?_

 

I only got my SR71 recently. Enough has been written about it I didn't feel it was worth adding. Do people think that would be helpful to have on here?

 I basically agree with Hon's comments by the way, although I think the iBasso looks better than the C&C Box, for what that's worth...


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only got my SR71 recently. Enough has been written about it I didn't feel it was worth adding. Do people think that would be helpful to have on here?

 I basically agree with Hon's comments by the way, although I think the iBasso looks better than the C&C Box, for what that's worth..._

 

If you don't mind spending the time, I think it would be worth including the SR-71 since I still see a good number of posts asking how it compares with the Hornet and Tomahawk -- as well as other portables -- and whether or not the SR-71 should be their choice for sonic quality in a portable. 

 It's "large" compared to the tiny amps available now, but so is the AE-2, and even larger are the MicroAmp and PRII, and though some current amps do some things better, the SR-71 still offers very fine SQ with a few characteristics unique to it, such as great sense of "air", velvety black background, excellent handling of microdynamics and ultra-fine detail/nuance.


----------



## Morph201

X2,I totally agree! Since the SR-71 is no longer the FOTM it's not getting any love!


----------



## thetargetarcher

How does the PA2V2 amp compare with the other tested amps reviewed in this thread? Where would it be placed in the overall list?

 I am basically after a cheap amp for use with the Senn HD595s for DVD watching and for listening to music. Would the PA2V2 be suitable or would I be better off spending a little bit more on something else?

 I like a bit of bass but not totally thumping.

 I am getting a bit confused with what to choose to spend my money on!


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thetargetarcher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the PA2V2 amp compare with the other tested amps reviewed in this thread? Where would it be placed in the overall list?

 I am basically after a cheap amp for use with the Senn HD595s for DVD watching and for listening to music. Would the PA2V2 be suitable or would I be better off spending a little bit more on something else?

 I like a bit of bass but not totally thumping.

 I am getting a bit confused with what to choose to spend my money on!_

 

you should start your own thread.

 but the C&C box or LDM+ would be good choices for the hd595's


----------



## Skylab

The final chapter has been written and added to the review. Here is the new section:

*UPDATE 2/25/07:*

 This is the FINAL chapter in my portable amp odyssey. I have reviewed the following additional amps below: iBasso T1, RSA SR71, Xenos 0HA-REP (the newer version of the 0HA I ordiginally reviewed), the Portaphile V2^2, and the C&C Box. FULL DISCLOSURE: Unlike all the other amps in this review which I bought with my own money, the iBasso T1, the Portaphile, and 0HA-REP were all sent to me by their makers who asked me to review them. I’m not sure any of them will be happy with my comments, but such is life. The SR71 and C&C Box I bought with my own money, like all the prior amps in this review. 

 A couple more photos:

 Getting ready to review!






 The new suspects:







*> Portaphile V2^2*

http://www.portaphile.com/ordering.html

 I was asked to review a fully-burned in Portaphile V2^2 by its maker. So I did. 

*Build Quality:* A-: It’s an attractive, well built amp. I’m not wild about the toggle on/off switch, or the length of the volume knob, but it’s still a solid amp. Slight turn on “click”. 
*Treble:* A-: Smooth, open, clear, and reasonably detailed. But just a touch laid back/soft, and missing the very top-end extension.
*Midrange:* B+: Slightly dry. Clean, but dry. The RSA TH was notably lusher.
*Bass: * A: Punchy, deep, powerful. Good definition. A strong suit. A real bass-lover’s amp. Only the Hornet, PRII mk 2, and Xenos 1HA are better.
*Neutrality:* B+: Decent, but sort of downward-sloping response, which isn’t strictly neutral. 
*Soundstaging:* B+: very good width, fair depth. Not a limitation but not a strength either..
*Transparency:* B+: No real grain, but just not that clear, open window on the sound that the better amps have. Close, but not quite.

 The V2^2 is a competent amp, and it sounds good. But it wasn’t for me as good as either the Headphonia or the Xenos 1HA, which are in its price class. So for me, that makes the Portaphile, which is a basic amp with no real “features”, kind of a tough sell. 


*> Xenos 0HA-REP*

http://www.aptecpro.com/Xenos-Prod/X...ntro-page.html

 I was asked by ATP Systems to review the newer 0HA-REP. So I did. It looks the same, but is a different amp internally in many ways I am told, and now has a battery charging feature, a feature that I essentially demand from a portable amp.

*Build Quality:* B+: No amp made of plastic gets more than a B+ from me, but it’s an attractive, well built amp. Slight turn on “thump”. Hiss becomes noticeable at 12:00 on the volume control – this isn’t a very quiet amp.
*Treble:* B: Slightly edgy, overemphasized, and “spitty” Somewhat grainy.
*Midrange:* B+: Decent performance here. Even. Not super engaging, but no real problems.
*Bass: * A-: Still this amp’s strong suit IMO – punchy, powerful, good definition. 
*Neutrality:* B+: Would be better if the treble were smoother. 
*Soundstaging:* B: Good depth, fair width. Again here, not a limitation but not a strength either.
*Transparency:* B-: A bit of grain, Sort of opaque sounding.

 The 0HA-REP is better than the original 0HA – I was able to compare them directly. And for a $99 amp, it’s good – bettered only by the iBasso P1 in that price class.


*> C&C Box V2*

 (no current website)

 This amp has a lot of features – a low frequency boost, a midrange boost, and some sort of soundfield enhancer. The C&C Box can, as a result, be made to have a variety of different sonic signatures. Unfortunately, none of them is really neutral, as we’ll see.

*Build Quality:* A-: Very nice metal case. The raised LED is a bit too close to the jacks for some plugs. Slight turn on thump. Slight turn on “thump”. Hiss becomes noticeable at 11:00 on the volume control – this isn’t a very quiet amp.
*Treble:* B-: Grainy and etched. Almost annoying.
*Midrange:* B-: It just doesn’t sound right – there is a nasally coloration when the “MF” switch is off, and when it’s on, the sound is way too strong in the lower mids. The use of the switch maybe compromised the design.
*Bass: * A-: A little muddy, but strong and punchy – good bass performance. 
*Neutrality:* B-: None of the settings, including all flat, provided a neutral sound. 
*Soundstaging:* B: Good depth, fair width. Decent performance.
*Transparency:* B-: It just isn’t very transparent.

 The C&C Box simply did not impress me. The ibasso P1 is much better for a little less money, and the Xenos 0HA-REP is better for the same money. Going from the C&C Box directly to the SR71 drove home the huge difference there is in the performance of portable amps. It was startling. Because you can really make the C&C Box have a variety of sounds using its switches, this amp will likely appeal to people who are looking for a certain “sound”. I am just not one of those people.


*> iBasso T1*

 (no current website)

 I was asked by the importer of this amp to review it. So I did. It’s stunningly small, and VERY attractive. The most retail-oriented headphone amp I have seen. It has 2 headphone outs, and a nice bass boost switch.

*Build Quality:* B+: Tiny. Pretty. Solid for the size. The switches are a little cheesy, though..
*Treble:* B+: Pretty amazingly clean. I was surprised. Not the most extended, but enjoyable.
*Midrange:* B+: Again, decent but not exceptional performance, but no real “problems”.
*Bass: * B+: Not the world’s most defined bass, but enjoyable. 
*Neutrality:* A-: Pretty even sound. Remarkably so, actually. 
*Soundstaging:* B: Just OK here..
*Transparency:* B+: No real grain. Surprisingly open.

 The iBasso T1 sounds incredible for the size – it’s smaller even than the RSA Tomahawk. And regardless of size, it sounds good for the money, although it’s been selling on EBay for the same price as the same company’s own P1, which is the better sounding amp. So you do give up some sound for packaging. Still, a nice little amp

*> Ray Samuels Audio SR71*

http://raysamuelsaudio.com/index2.html

 I had always been interested in this amp, so I finally broke down and bought one. I am glad I did. I don’t miss my Hornet anymore.

*Build Quality:* A: The best there is, physically. The Larocco PRII mk 2 may be a tiny bit prettier, but the SR71 is better built, and very attractive. It is slightly noisier than the Hornet, however – probably due to more gain. Also has a slight turn on thump, which the other RSA amps didn’t.
*Treble:* A: Smooth, extended, open, clean, and detailed. Truly excellent.
*Midrange:* A: Smooth and open sounding. Very open, even, and inviting, never aggressive. No glare at all – the Hornet had just a touch of upper midrange glare, the SR71 does not, making it the better amp in the mids IMO.
*Bass: * A-: Defined, full, and fairly robust, but slightly less of it than I’d ideally like, esp. versus the PRII mk 2 and the Xenos 1HA-EPC. But just a slight bit less.
*Neutrality:* A-: terrifically neutral except missing that one tiny bit of bass, and many people may actually prefer this bass balance.
*Soundstaging:* A: Great depth, excellent. Very convincing imaging – excellent performance here..
*Transparency:* A: Wide open, clear, engaging sound.

 The RSA SR71 _immediately_ impresses with that “WOW” factor. It’s a fantastic amp. It’s kind of big, and I wish it had a batter charger. But in comparing, it clearly betters the Tomahawk. I wish I still had the Hornet to compare directly, but if memory serves me, the SR71 is a tiny bit better everywhere other than the bass, and likely just a little better overall.





 SO: It’s now 15 amps! What a project. I am DONE. Time to enjoy now. But here is my view on how the amps stacked up.

 1.Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2.RSA SR71
 3.RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5.RSA Tomahawk
 6.Headphonia
 7. Headamp AE-1
 8.Portaphile V2^2
 9.iBasso P-1
 10.Practical Devices XM4
 11.Xenos 0HA-REP
 12.iBasso T1
 12. Xtra X-1
 13.Go-Vibe V5 
 14.C&C Box V2
 15.Little Dot Micro+

 As before, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## Gautama




----------



## Morph201

Very well done! 

 Hmm... SR71 #2; Hornet "M" #3...... huh? Well even so, I am going to resist the upgraditis-urge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and take the high road! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (kidding!) I am extremely happy with my current setup!!


----------



## cooperpwc

Excellent update. Much thanks, Skylab! 

 (And nice to see those Canadian dudes - Xenos 1HA-EPC - right up there, tops in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and competing only with Headophonia for best bang for the buck.)


----------



## Chops

Quote:


 _> Little Dot Micro+

 Info: http://www.little-tube.com/

 This is the second least expensive amp in the group, and for the $60 price has a built in Li-Ion battery and comes with a charger! Quite the bargain. No other features. Unfortunately, it’s the worst sounding and noisiest amp of the bunch.

 Build Quality: B+: Nice metal case, but the volume knob is cheesy, and the jacks are a little tough to jet plugs in and out of for some non-obvious reason. There is no real turn-on thump, but the volume control makes noise when adjusted, and the amp in general is noisy. There is an audibly hiss at all levels that increases with volume, and at the top of the range (which admittedly is unlikely to be used) there is a high-pitched whine that’s audible.. 
 Treble: B-: grainy and veiled compared to the better amps here, lacks air and extension – not too transparent.
 Midrange: B+: generally smooth sound here, pleasant presentation, without the last word in cleanliness or openness.
 Bass: B: decent impact and quantity, but loose and lacking definition and depth.
 Neutrality: B: not extended, slightly spitty lower treble, slightly dark mids, missing deep bass.
 Soundstaging: B-: closed-in sounding – the most of any of the amps here.
 Transparency: B-: colored enough that it completely lacks that feeling of having an open window to the music. There is a serious veil in between the listener and the music.

 The issue with the LDM+ is that the even less expensive Xenos 0HA blows it away, so I can’t even say “sounds good for the money”. I find the LDM+ impossible to recommend even at the price._ 
 


 All I've got to say is that you must have a defective unit. 

 My LDM+ is dead silent at ALL volumes. There's no hiss, no buzz, no nothing. And there's only the very slightest bit of hiss with the PSU plugged in. Even then, it's only audible towards the highest point on the volume. The treble might be the slightest bit veiled, but still plenty extended, and not _that_ grainy. The midrange sounds fine, as does the bass quantity. I have to admit though, the bass is a little soft around the edges, but not much.

 I found the LDM+ to be a heck of a lot better than either the LD II++ or stock Xiang Sheng 708B in all respects. In fact, the only real faults with it is 1) The compressed soundstage, and 2) The stiff volume knob is a PITA to use with the input cable being so darn close.

 In my own review, I stated that the LDM+ was mostly nothing more than "wire with gain", and I still say so today.

 With that said, all of my testing was done with my well broken-in AKG K701's which are known for being very nutral and natural sounding. Unfortunately, Byers are known for being somewhat colored.


----------



## Iced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chops* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All I've got to say is that you must have a defective unit. 

 My LDM+ is dead silent at ALL volumes. There's no hiss, no buzz, no nothing. And there's only the very slightest bit of hiss with the PSU plugged in. Even then, it's only audible towards the highest point on the volume. The treble might be the slightest bit veiled, but still plenty extended, and not that grainy. The midrange sounds fine, as does the bass quantity. I have to admit though, the bass is a little soft around the edges, but not much.

 I found the LDM+ to be a heck of a lot better than either the LD II++ or stock Xiang Sheng 708B in all respects. In fact, the only real faults with it is 1) The compressed soundstage, and 2) The stiff volume knob is a PITA to use with the input cable being so darn close.

 In my own review, I stated that the LDM+ was mostly nothing more than "wire with gain", and I still say so today.

 With that said, all of my testing was done with my well broken-in AKG K701's which are known for being very nutral and natural sounding. Unfortunately, Byers are known for being somewhat colored._

 

Your Ldm+ is dead silent because you are using it with k701. It's actually very noisy with lower impedance headphones, especially with iems.


----------



## fkclo

I note from the FS thread that the C&C Box was burn in for 100 hours. For some reasons (which I didn't spend time to investigate) the C&C Box does require a bit more time. Mine was burn in continously for over 360 hours (15 days) and things do smooth and open up and it was quite pleasant now.

 I do agree its sonic character is a bit "artificial" or "coloured" but it is in my opinion, a more accomplished amp that you may have suggested. 

 FWIW, I was using a GS1000 for burning it in using 320kbps AAC files played from an iPod. 

 While I would concur the LaRocco Pocket Reference II is one of the best sounding amp, I wonder where the Xin's SuperMacro, Mini and Micro will slot in the ladder ? Any suggestions ? I have a SMIV and found it better than the PRII in some areas, but not as impressive when it comes to texture, warmth. My previous comparision between the SMIIIV6 against a Hornet both owned by me did indicated the SMIIIV6 has a upper hand. Well this is just my personal judgement though.

 F. Lo


----------



## Skylab

I had long sold my Xin SuperMacro IV before I started this review. But I will say that based on memory, it would rank below the Hornet. Impossibe to say how it would compare to the Xenos 1HA-EPS, since I never had them at the same time.

 Let me also say, regarding break in, it's possible both the Portaphile and C&C Box could have benefitted from even more than the 100 hours they got. But quite frankly, I don't have time to break in amps for that long, and in my own use, I don't do that either. ALL amps improve with break in, but rarely in my experience do they change radically after 100 hours.

 And with regard to the LDM+, I did not try them with K701's. But they sure hissed with Senn HD25-1's, which are a more likely pairing than the K701. IEMs are even more likely, and, as such, this may be an issue for some users.

 Also, folks, these are my opinions. Just because I did or didn't like your favorite amp, that doesn't make me right or wrong, nor does it make you right or wrong. It's how I heard it, in a fairly controlled test. Still, YMMV.


----------



## Chops

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Iced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your Ldm+ is dead silent because you are using it with k701. It's actually very noisy with lower impedance headphones, especially with iems._

 

I've tried it with my Sony MDR-7506's, a cheapie pair of Sony IEM's that came with my mp3 cell phone, and my brother's Grado SR-325i's. And my hearing is just fine, being able to clearly hear up to 22kHz.

 Not with any of these cans do I detect any hiss or buzz, hence the reason for saying what I said.


----------



## soloz2

yeah, I've recently picked up a few different portable amps to listen to them myself and I have to agree that the C&C Box has improved w/ break in the most. When i first got it I couldn't see what all the fuss was about, but I'm going on 60 hours now and it's really opened up.


----------



## Chops

I have a small correction to make...

 I am trying those cheap Sony IEMs again. This time around, I do in fact hear the hiss, and the hiss gets worse when a source is connected (headphone out of my Audigy2 card). With nothing connected, and with the volume turned up past 2 o'clock, this hiss goes away. 

 So I admit that the LDM+ DOES have hiss, detectable with IEMs, even super cheap ones. 

 On a side note, I am starting to see what others go on about with IEMs! If the darn cable on these Sony's were longer than 6", I'd listen to them longer. It's hard to type and hold the LDM+ up to my chin at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Darn it, now I'm gonna have to do some shopping around for some IEMs!


----------



## ken36

A momentous undertaking and an excellent community service. You can take great personal satisfaction for a job well done.


----------



## pretzelb

Of all the things I've read the only thing I'd like to argue with is this ...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I am DONE._

 

Wish we could convince you to keep going!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the review. It's been a very fun read for me.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Ken36 and pretzelb, I really appreciate that. Your comments are what make me enjoy the work that it takes to do these properly.

 But I think my next gig may be a comparative review of some home tube amps


----------



## guzziguy

Wait! Don't quit quite yet. Quick, somebody send him an AE-2 to compare.


----------



## hon

Nice update Skylab! Your portable amp review is so informative that I'd like to read it again and again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For your reference, the C&C box got a website that is headb.com. They are one of our Head-Fi's Sponsors.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Let me also say, regarding break in, it's possible both the Portaphile and C&C Box could have benefitted from even more than the 100 hours they got. But quite frankly, I don't have time to break in amps for that long, and in my own use, I don't do that either. ALL amps improve with break in, but rarely in my experience do they change radically after 100 hours...._

 

I hear you. However the Portaphile if it has the Blackgates needs at least 300 to 400 hours of burn in. I have the Hornet and the Tomahawk. I can tell you that my Hornet changed drastically from 100 to 400 hours. The Tomahawk is even more of a puzzle it changed a bit from 100 to 400 hours, however from 400 to 600 it had a substantial change to now it sounds very close to the Hornet. I am going to burn it in for another 200 hours and see what happens.

 I certainly hope it is not all placebo!


----------



## Skylab

Cesar from portaphile did say that the Black Gates need a long time to break in. So I am keeping it a while, and I will report back on that.


----------



## jamato8

I have used BG's for a long time and even with the knowledge that they take a long time to truly form, I have taken them out of the circuit only to later put them back in and allowing for hundreds of hours to pass. I have heard changes past 500 hours. They can be maddening to break-in as they can affect the sound so much but when done they are excellent. I have even compared them to very expensive teflon film and other caps and they hold up fine even in the signal path (BG HiQ caps are what I would use in the signal path).


----------



## thetargetarcher

Is the Ibasso P1 rated higher than the Practical Devices XM4 in the final rankings because of the price difference? Previously the XM4 and P1 were tied in the rankings but the XM4 seems to get get higher scores in the different categories.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cesar from portaphile did say that the Black Gates need a long time to break in. So I am keeping it a while, and I will report back on that._

 

It's no exaggeration, but my Portaphile LT1210-1500uf BlackGate NX Maxxed took almost 400 hours to reach its optimal sound. Along the way it followed an erratic "burn-in" curve, which seems to be what your notes describe.

 My very mature Portaphile sounds quite different from what you've described. You were close in describing the bass, but the optimal amp has bass definition/articulation that I have not yet heard in other amps. 

 I understand you don't have the patience or feel the need for 400 hours break in, but that is really what is needed. 

 Mine has very extended highs that are extremely clear and crisp and very detailed — transparency definitely one of its strengths — and offering a uniquely lucid window into the music. No one who has heard it has said the highs were soft or limited — but rather the extreme opposite. My amp offers remarkable inner detail and precise, layered imaging with great sound space dimension (great depth and height, as well as width).

 The SQ isn't perfect, as no other portable amp is — it would be nice if it had a bit more warmth in the mids to make voices a bit more lush — but it offers an exceptional musical experience that you apparently have not yet heard. 

 I hope you can let it play unattended 24/7 to get past the long break in and then listen again.

 Best Regards!


----------



## jinp6301

on your review of the headphonia, you stated that the bass was the thing that held the headphonia back, but now with the new op-amp, do you feel that its much closer in performence to the RSA amps?

 to re clarify, do you think that the new op-amp improved the bass a lot?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_on your review of the headphonia, you stated that the bass was the thing that held the headphonia back, but now with the new op-amp, do you feel that its much closer in performence to the RSA amps?

 to re clarify, do you think that the new op-amp improved the bass a lot?_

 

I think that the new op amp improved the bass, yes, but at a very slight loss in overall transparency. So no, I didn't think the Headphonia got any higher in the rankings.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thetargetarcher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Ibasso P1 rated higher than the Practical Devices XM4 in the final rankings because of the price difference? Previously the XM4 and P1 were tied in the rankings but the XM4 seems to get get higher scores in the different categories._

 

I decided I wanted no ties in the final rankings, and I felt the iBasso P1 had impressed me a little more than the PM XM4. But they were very close.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's no exaggeration, but my Portaphile LT1210-1500uf BlackGate NX Maxxed took almost 400 hours to reach its optimal sound. Along the way it followed an erratic "burn-in" curve, which seems to be what your notes describe.

 My very mature Portaphile sounds quite different from what you've described. You were close in describing the bass, but the optimal amp has bass definition/articulation that I have not yet heard in other amps. 

 I understand you don't have the patience or feel the need for 400 hours break in, but that is really what is needed. 

 Mine has very extended highs that are extremely clear and crisp and very detailed — transparency definitely one of its strengths — and offering a uniquely lucid window into the music. No one who has heard it has said the highs were soft or limited — but rather the extreme opposite. My amp offers remarkable inner detail and precise, layered imaging with great sound space dimension (great depth and height, as well as width).

 The SQ isn't perfect, as no other portable amp is — it would be nice if it had a bit more warmth in the mids to make voices a bit more lush — but it offers an exceptional musical experience that you apparently have not yet heard. 

 I hope you can let it play unattended 24/7 to get past the long break in and then listen again.

 Best Regards!_

 

I believe you (and Jamato8, and Cesar from Portaphile himself, etc. etc.). Which is why I agreed to keep the Portaphile a while and "cook" it some more. I will report back. I am keeping almost all of the amps ranked ahead of it, so it won't be hard to see if it scaled the rankings.

 In the end, of the 16 amps I had here, I decided to keep the Xenos 1HA-EPC, the RSA Tomahawk and SR71, the Headphonia, and the Larocco PRII mk 2. Even 5 portable amps is too may, but I couldn't bear to part with any of those.


----------



## melomaniac

any opinions on the USB-featured amps, Headphonia vs Total Bithead? just curious...


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SO: It’s now 15 amps! What a project. I am DONE. Time to enjoy now. But here is my view on how the amps stacked up.

 1.Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2.RSA SR71
 3.RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5.RSA Tomahawk
 6.Headphonia
 7. Headamp AE-1
 8.Portaphile V2^2
 9.iBasso P-1
 10.Practical Devices XM4
 11.Xenos 0HA-REP
 12.iBasso T1
 13. Xtra X-1
 14.Go-Vibe V5 
 15.C&C Box V2
 16.Little Dot Micro+

 As before, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful._

 

Skylab once again kudos to you, my friend, for this massive missive. take a break & let your mind go to some versions of 'dark star'. once you're refreshed i (and many others, no doubt) hope that you'll jump back into the fray and compare the go vibe 6, larocco diablo (if and when that tempting little bugger shows), and various xin amps with the others. btw, how many hrs are on your tomahawk now? your 'competitors' in the tiny amp shoot out review series (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) are now reporting that the thing continues to improve out past 600hrs and is awfully close to their beloved hornet and sr-71 (and they're going to test and see if it's still changing at 800hrs), although they still seem to favor the xin supermicro above all others (please correct me if i've misstated, boys).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab once again kudos to you, my friend, for this massive missive. take a break & let your mind go to some versions of 'dark star'. once you're refreshed i (and many others, no doubt) hope that you'll jump back into the fray and compare the go vibe 6, larocco diablo (if and when that tempting little bugger shows), and various xin amps with the others. btw, how many hrs are on your tomahawk now? your 'competitors' in the tiny amp shoot out review series (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) are now reporting that the thing continues to improve out past 600hrs and is awfully close to their beloved hornet and sr-71 (and they're going to test and see if it's still changing at 800hrs), although they still seem to favor the xin supermicro above all others (please correct me if i've misstated, boys)._

 

Thanks DD. I will certainly be adding the Larocco Diablo, if that ever actually comes to fruition (and there is no good reason to believe it will at this point, sadly). 

 My TH has about 250 hours on it - It will be a while before it gets much more, in that I am not burning it in anymore, just using it. But I wouldn't doubt it'll just keep getting better.


----------



## Romanee

Hi, SkyLab! I haven't added praise lately: Great Work! Hope you're doing a little weight training to keep your strength up.

 Cheers!


----------



## flamerz

Skylab, I love you. >_>


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flamerz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I love you. >_>_

 

I love you too, man! Sniff...






 Thanks for all the nice comments, guys.


----------



## ZackP

this was a great review, can't wait to see more of your review work


----------



## scottiebabie

gotta say.....thanks bigtime SKYLAB! your review has been great in helping me narrow down to which porty amp i wanna own. its ppl like you that gives hope and enlightenment (i hope
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to noob yokos like me. through your review, its almost like i "auditioned" all those 15 amps myself
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 ps:now we need u to do all the rest of the amps. hehe!


----------



## muzikk

Excellent review Skylab keep it coming. 
 I just have one question. How would you compare the dac of the headphonia to the aria? Or to a computer soundcard that you have experience with. 
 I am interested in the headphonia but it is a slightly out of my budget if you have to consider buying batteries and power supply since they are not included. Maybe the dac will make it quite a deal. Cheers.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *muzikk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent review Skylab keep it coming. 
 I just have one question. How would you compare the dac of the headphonia to the aria? Or to a computer soundcard that you have experience with. 
 I am interested in the headphonia but it is a slightly out of my budget if you have to consider buying batteries and power supply since they are not included. Maybe the dac will make it quite a deal. Cheers._

 

I listened to the DAC for a bit, but not extensively. It performed pretty well though - I'd say it's just a whisker under the Aria's DAC, although I did not find the DAC in the Aria to be it's strong suit - good but not great (as opposed to the DAC in Meier's more expensive Opera, which is terrific).

 But again, for the money - awesome.


----------



## user18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened to the DAC for a bit, but not extensively. It performed pretty well though - I'd say it's just a whisker under the Aria's DAC, although I did not find the DAC in the Aria to be it's strong suit - good but not great (as opposed to the DAC in Meier's more expensive Opera, which is terrific).

 But again, for the money - awesome._

 

Man, now I want to get the Opera... I was planning on the Aria. That's going to really hurt the wallet.


----------



## muzikk

I am thinking of using it as portable dac when I am travelling with my laptop, there aren't too many options besides the Porta corda and the Bithead. (BTW you should add those to your review, GO Skylab
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 But can you confirm that it has a decent optical line out? I mean a worthy line out to connect to a more expensive dac for home use. That will be a weird setup though,

 laptop -> headphonia -> external dac -> back to headphonia for amplication -> finally headphones

 I wonder if it effects the sound quality having all the connections going in and out on a small amp.


----------



## Postal_Blue

Sticky?


----------



## tnmike1

2X Sticky. How 'bout it Mr. Moderator?


----------



## Hanzo

This is such a value to read. Thanks. My vote for sticky.

 ...but what happened to the pix? and can we have a pic or two of the second group?


----------



## GreenLeo

3X sticky. 

 I very often come back to see the new post of this thread from time to time.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hanzo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is such a value to read. Thanks. My vote for sticky.

 ...but what happened to the pix? and can we have a pic or two of the second group?_

 

Thanks for your nice comments. The pictures are there - maybe when you looked there was a problem with photobucket where they are hosted. But they are there.


----------



## Hanzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your nice comments. The pictures are there - maybe when you looked there was a problem with photobucket where they are hosted. But they are there._

 

Gak! Dern corporate firewalls!! Second set there too? Will have another look when home.

 Bet that's it.

 Thanks!!


----------



## fraseyboy

4x Sticky. Great read, skylab!


----------



## crocandy

(sticky) I agree as a total newbie this post has saved me asking numerous annoying questions. 

 Skylab how do your top 5 portable amps compare to home amps around the same price? I like the idea of the portability of some of the amps but would only need to be portable around 20% of the time. [if this has already be done please could someone point me in the right direction]

 Rig = ipod 4G 20gb, Grado SR80, Senn HD 650 (when they arrive)
 Next purchase Westone UM3 (when i sell one of my kidneys)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crocandy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab how do your top 5 portable amps compare to home amps around the same price? I like the idea of the portability of some of the amps but would only need to be portable around 20% of the time. [if this has already be done please could someone point me in the right direction]_

 

Well, there is this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229399 , although this does not represent my complete thinking on the subject. It's complex. But for the money, I think the Xenos is a freat place to start, given what you said about how you would use it.


----------



## EFN

Vote for Sticky!


----------



## Ymer

Very nice thread!

 Say, how would a Gilmore Lite or Headfive fare against the top 5 portable amps in this round-up?

 Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ymer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice thread!

 Say, how would a Gilmore Lite or Headfive fare against the top 5 portable amps in this round-up?

 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Headfive, when I had it, was competitive with the top 5 amps in the survey, even though it was cheaper than all of them except the Xenos. It has a little warmer sonic signature than all of them except the Xenos, which means it would mate better with some headphones than some of these amps. I also felt the Headfive has slightly superior imaging to all of these amps, but that is going from memory since I no longer have it.


----------



## *645-k701

Sticky..(tup)


----------



## Ymer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Headfive, when I had it, was competitive with the top 5 amps in the survey, even though it was cheaper than all of them except the Xenos. It has a little warmer sonic signature than all of them except the Xenos, which means it would mate better with some headphones than some of these amps. I also felt the Headfive has slightly superior imaging to all of these amps, but that is going from memory since I no longer have it._

 

I was thinking about selling my Headfive and buying a Tomahawk to double as a desktop amp until around september, do you think it's a good idea? I'll be moving to another country and traveling a lot, so the portable amp will come in handy. I will want a new desktop amp when I'm done moving anyway.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ymer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was thinking about selling my Headfive and buying a Tomahawk to double as a desktop amp until around september, do you think it's a good idea? I'll be moving to another country and traveling a lot, so the portable amp will come in handy. I will want a new desktop amp when I'm done moving anyway._

 

Those amps sound much more different than the Aria and Tomahawk I compared directly. The H5 is warmer. What headphones do you have?


----------



## Ymer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those amps sound much more different than the Aria and Tomahawk I compared directly. The H5 is warmer. What headphones do you have?_

 

I have Beyer DT770/80s, Senn HD580s and Grados SR225.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ymer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have Beyer DT770/80s, Senn HD580s and Grados SR225. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Of those I have only heard the 770/80's, and those do very well with the TH.


----------



## Ymer

I see. Do you like the 80ohm DT770s a lot more than the 32ohm? Thanks for your reply!


----------



## kamal007

p2av2 is out of the race guys?


----------



## itobito

I am little late... however nevertheless, that was fantastic review Skylab! Very informative! 
 whether I will probably not buy of mentioned amps, because I like very on microstack of headroom... and I have iRiver h140

 did you try microstack? could you say which about it?

 I would like to buy it... maybe


----------



## Skylab

I have never heard either the P2av2 or a Microstack, although I hope to at some point.

 And yes, I like the DT770 Pro 80 better than the 05 DT770/32, but both are excellent.


----------



## Dale T.

Great info. Thanks for the help!!


----------



## itobito

thanks for response


----------



## Skylab

Coming soon: Update on the Portaphile V2^2 with 400 hours break in, and a review of the Storm STB4...


----------



## Romanee

I'll add a couple of cents worth of notes about the PA2V2 — assuming that's what the P2AV2 note referred to — and if anyone is curious. If there is a P2AV2, then please correct me and accept my apology. Hope SkyLab doesn't mind my answering the question, since he hasn't heard it.

 The (Electric-Avenues.com) PA2V2 is a marvelous entry-level amp that has plenty of power in a tiny, simple, square black plastic box (2.6" x 2.6" x 1.1"). I think it's currently $60 + small shipping cost, comes with an AC adapter/charger, runs on 2xAA rechargeables for roughly 100 hours, depending on battery capacity. It's also sometimes available at ebay auction, obviously for less than $60 if you're lucky. 

 The abbreviated specs are: an LM4881 op amp, 2x470uf Panasonic input caps, 2x2200uf Panasonic output caps (forgot the models); has an output power of up to 200 mW RMS; claimed 5Hz-40kHz response; 100dB SNR. I'll try it tomorrow with ES2 IEMs to check for hiss. 

 It's been a while since I listened to it, but I'll try tomorrow with DT880-250/05, PXC300 and ES2, and adjust this post if needed.

 It has a gutsy sound and can drive most phones, but lacks refinement, solid image focus, and the kind of transparent window into the music that we're all seeking, and discussing here. 

 Still, it provides a big, energetic sound suitable for the beginner on a budget. It's not a contender for top SQ positions, but I don't believe it makes any such pretentions. It's simply a nice introduction at a very painless price, and an unassuming yet durable package.

 I try to keep products in context, and appreciate them for what they offer in that context.

*EDIT 9:07am:* Unfortunately, the PA2V2 is not a match for the ES2 IEMs. In terms of hiss there's only a very tiny hiss that the music covers, but the sound is noisy and gritty. [Perhaps an impedance mismatch?] The overall sound with ES2 is worse than iPod 4G headphone out. Though iPod headout has no depth or "life", it's cleaner and more pleasant than PA2V2. Not the proper application for PA2V2. (Sorry, Gary.)

 Tomahawk, on the other hand, is a wonderful improvement over iPod headout with ES2! Better separation, imaging, extension, definition, dimension, air, etc.

*EDIT 2:30pm:* Okay, here's the (overall positive with caveats) quicky low-down the PA2V2 with PXC300 and DT880-250/05.

 The PA2V2 drives the DT880-250/2005 quite well, with surprisingly good extension and a better illusion of depth & dimension than I expected. One apparent area where it falls short — using the Hornet for comparison — is highs on violins and voices, where some fringe-y edges are heard, whereas the Hornet is smooth and sweet. It also falls short in clean, crisp leading edge attack and bass definition. 

 It has good bass energy and impact, but it's less defined. Placement of performers and imaging are also better than I recalled, though the ultimate lack of clean edges & transparency prevents it from presenting the rock solid, well-described, layered imaging that the best amps offer.

 Still, the PA2V2 is pretty involving and a terrific bang-for-buck amp. 

 I was using Sting's "Brand New Day" disc, "Desert Rose" (for high metal persussion, swooshing L-R effects, depth/dimension, bass and drum attack. On "A Thousand Years" that starts out with a stygian bass-synth note, it reproduced the note pretty well. I used Maxim Vengerov "Virtuoso" disc, "I Palpiti" for high/smooth solo violin, and Alison Krauss "Lonely Runs Both Ways", disc, "Gravity" — where Alison's voice and Jerry Douglas' dobro were just smoother & sweeter, the bass richer & punchier, and the overall sound cleaner & more fluid with blacker background with the Hornet.

 PA2V2 is a great match for the (closed/folding/Noise-Reducing) Senn PXC300 phones, which makes for excellent iPod/amp/phones portability without IEMs.


----------



## roastpuff

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has a gutsy sound and can drive most phones, but lacks refinement, solid image focus, and the kind of transparent window into the music that we're all seeking, and discussing here. 

 Still, it provides a big, energetic sound suitable for the beginner on a budget. It's not a contender for top SQ positions, but I don't believe it makes any such pretentions. It's simply a nice introduction at a very painless price, and an unassuming yet durable package.

 I try to keep products in context, and appreciate them for what they offer in that context._

 

Yep, the PA2V2 is an excellent beginner's amp, and definitely is a great value for the money. It's like... the poor man's Tomahawk! 

 Just to chime in to previous observations of the Tomahawk, I can confirm that it drives 600 Ohm Darth Beyers quite nicely, with the gain switch flipped up, from the line-out of a 5G iPod. No strain whatsoever - I'm still below 12 o' clock, with lots more room to spare. I've also had the Tomahawk maxed out when running out of a Clix's headphone out, and there was no clipping/distortion. Still on my first set of batteries, with a good 2 - 3 hour use of it almost everyday since early January, with no noticeable drop in volume.


----------



## GreatDane

yeah, what's a P2av2? Thanks for that quick take on the PA2v2. I just sold mine...too late Skylab.lol.

 I agree with how Romanee describes its performance. It served me well.

 I'm sure I'll get to read a review from the person who bought it(not from this forum)...he is a highly regarded member and DIY guy...maybe he'll end up buying a Hornet or something after this. lol

 I'm expecting my AE-2 soon...maybe this week. YEA!


----------



## Romanee

See my 9am EDIT of PA2V2 with ES2 IEMs — and 2:30pm edit with DT880-05/2005 and PXC300.


----------



## kamal007

typo: its actually a pa2v2 not p2av2


----------



## Skylab

I added the Storm B4, and updated the Portaphile.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I added the Storm B4, and updated the Portaphile._

 

i'd never even heard of the storm amp before. i looked at the rated specs and this thing supposedly can put out ~4 watts into 32 ohms and ~1 watt into 120 ohms. i wonder if it could drive the akg k1000s? rob, you gotta add that phone to your collection! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 thanks for all your work on this project. this thread is a nice resource. hopefully you get to hear justin's latest version of his portable amp soon. the funny thing is i haven't seem any reports other than about the prototype version he brought to ny in november. some folks must have theirs already, no?
 any further word about the diablo? hopefully you get it before you're old, grey, bald, and deaf!


----------



## Skylab

I will get a chance to review the Diablo, if it ever comes to exist. I have also been offered a loan of an AE-2 from another heafier, so eventually I will update the thread with that.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will get a chance to review the Diablo, if it ever comes to exist. I have also been offered a loan of an AE-2 from another heafier, so eventually I will update the thread with that._

 

that's great to hear. perhaps the so. fl boys will lend you some Xin amps so you can share your impressions about those too. (and mebbe they'll get a chance to hear the elusive diablo some day too ....). one question about the Storm amp - i forget the term you've used to distinguish the top tier amps from other good but lesser amps, but does it have that special quailty?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that's great to hear. perhaps the so. fl boys will lend you some Xin amps so you can share your impressions about those too. (and mebbe they'll get a chance to hear the elusive diablo some day too ....). one question about the Storm amp - i forget the term you've used to distinguish the top tier amps from other good but lesser amps, but does it have that special quailty?_

 

I have nothing better than a pretty basic term - it's the WOW factor. That sort of constant feeling of "WOW I can't believe how good this sounds". The Storm, Portaphile, and Headamp AE-1 all gave me that feeling sometimes, but not consistantly, like the amps above them in rank do...


----------



## blipmusic

Skylab, thanks for an outstanding source of information but you're kind of scaring me a little with the added Headphonia comment... Anything you can comment on in a PM...?

 Currently I have an interim Headphonia on loan (the "old" 3-switch AD8397) since a couple of weeks back until the new DAC version arrives. To me it's the usability of it that got me since I'll use it both for my ibook and when I'm on the road. When an experienced Head-fi:er like yourself says something like that without being able to elaborate further (almost sounds like you aren't allowed to) it worries us lowly mortals a bit.


----------



## Skylab

I am really sorry I cannot comment further about the Headphonia at this time. I will say that my concerns have to do with the maker's business practices, and not the performance of the amp itself. 

 Please, no PM's or emails on this - I really cannot comment any further than that.


----------



## blipmusic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am really sorry I cannot comment further about the Headphonia at this time._

 

Ok, no worries. Thank you anyway.


----------



## mrarroyo

skylab, I do not know if you still have the XM4. If you do take the OPA2134 out and install and AD8620. You will be very pleasantly surprised at how much better it sounds.

 BTW I am thinking of selling/trading my Hornet "M" for an SR-71. Based on the times I have listen to it I much prefer it to the Hornet "M". However I realize it does not have a built in battery charger nor a gain switch and therein is my question: What gain did you get on your SR-71? If the low gain can it drive say a DT990 250 ohm with authority?

 Thanks.


----------



## tnmike1

Mrarroyo: if it's any value to you, I have the SR-71 and 880s and it powers the 880s magnificently, altho they are recabled by Drew of Moon Audio with Blue Dragon cabling, which gives a "warm" sonic signature. But pwering them, is no problem. Hope this input helps


----------



## jpelg

Wow! Major kudos for not only undertaking this huge challenge and master it, but also keeping it updated!

 Props.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, I do not know if you still have the XM4. If you do take the OPA2134 out and install and AD8620. You will be very pleasantly surprised at how much better it sounds.

 BTW I am thinking of selling/trading my Hornet "M" for an SR-71. Based on the times I have listen to it I much prefer it to the Hornet "M". However I realize it does not have a built in battery charger nor a gain switch and therein is my question: What gain did you get on your SR-71? If the low gain can it drive say a DT990 250 ohm with authority?

 Thanks._

 












 Good choice! Hehehe, I have the "normal" gain (6db) and it drives the K701s very well. I know I know, but even though the K701s are lower than 250ohm, they require a good voltage to be driven!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, I do not know if you still have the XM4. If you do take the OPA2134 out and install and AD8620. You will be very pleasantly surprised at how much better it sounds.

 BTW I am thinking of selling/trading my Hornet "M" for an SR-71. Based on the times I have listen to it I much prefer it to the Hornet "M". However I realize it does not have a built in battery charger nor a gain switch and therein is my question: What gain did you get on your SR-71? If the low gain can it drive say a DT990 250 ohm with authority?

 Thanks._

 

Unfortunately, I do not have the XM4 anymore, but I don't doubt what you have said - I'm sure the Analog Devices chip sounds better.

 And my SR71 is the "normal" gain version, but given that my Tomahawk can drive 250 ohm cans on it's low gain setting, I bet the SR71 can, and then some.

 The SR71 was enough better than the Hornet, I thought to warrant my keeping the SR71 and not the Hornet, even though I prefer to have rechargeable batteries.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpelg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! Major kudos for not only undertaking this huge challenge and master it, but also keeping it updated!

 Props._

 

THANK YOU!


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mrarroyo: if it's any value to you, I have the SR-71 and 880s and it powers the 880s magnificently, altho they are recabled by Drew of Moon Audio with Blue Dragon cabling, which gives a "warm" sonic signature. But pwering them, is no problem. Hope this input helps_

 

Thanks, I see that morph and skylab answered the same basic way. Well it seems I should have asked if the low gain version of the SR-71 could drive both IEM's and a 300 ohm can. I mean I listen to very low levels. BTW does anyone know what the gain would be on an SR-71 set at low? Thanks.


----------



## AFAI

I'm brand new to the Head-fi scene, just now venturing into quality sound, and i got to say you definitely helped out with your great reviews in picking an amp that even a rookie like me could understand!


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I see that morph and skylab answered the same basic way. Well it seems I should have asked if the low gain version of the SR-71 could drive both IEM's and a 300 ohm can. I mean I listen to very low levels. BTW does anyone know what the gain would be on an SR-71 set at low? Thanks._

 

From what I can recall low is 3db; normal 6db, and high 11...... From many conversations with Ray, the normal is supposed to be the optimal setting for IEMs\low impedence cans and also high impedence cans (250, 300ohm)... I never tried the amps with sensistive cans since I have given up on IEMs, atm...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From what I can recall low is 3db; normal 6db, and high 11...... From many conversations with Ray, the normal is supposed to be the optimal setting for IEMs\low impedence cans and also high impedence cans (250, 300ohm)... I never tried the amps with sensistive cans since I have given up on IEMs, atm... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks. BTW I just got a Goldring DR150 and it kicks but.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. BTW I just got a Goldring DR150 and it kicks but._

 

Really? And it's only $150?? How does it compare to the more talked about ones (Senn, AKG)??


----------



## gmckay

I'm a bit confused in regards to your ranking of the Xenos ahead of the Tomahawk.

 Clearly your subjective marking of the Tomahawk fares much better than the Xenos.

 What gives?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gmckay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm a bit confused in regards to your ranking of the Xenos ahead of the Tomahawk.

 Clearly your subjective marking of the Tomahawk fares much better than the Xenos.

 What gives?_

 

They are really very close overall, but they sound more different from each other than some amps do. In the final balance I preferrred the sound of the 1HA-EPC slightly (VERY slightly) over the Tomahawk. But in the top group of amps especially, they are all so good that it's a very tough call.


----------



## Skylab

I basically agree with that. For anyone who might ever ask me to pick between the 1HA-EPC and the Tomahawk for a portable amp to use with IEM's mostly out of the home, I would recommend the Tomahawk every time.


----------



## Skylab

I have no doubt about the high sound quality of the Tomahawk, having done a blind, level matched comparison between it and a $1000 tube amp, using Sennheiser HD600's, and having had to work hard to tell the difference. I was able to tell, but even so, I would not have said the expensive tube amp was "better". Just "different".

 In general I think it's unwise for anyone to make any claims about the *sound quality* of amps they have never heard. Only listening can determine that.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no doubt about the high sound quality of the Tomahawk, having done a blind, level matched comparison between it and a $1000 tube amp, using Sennheiser HD600's, and having had to work hard to tell the difference. I was able to tell, but even so, I would not have said the expensive tube amp was "better". Just "different".

 In general I think it's unwise for anyone to make any claims about the *sound quality* of amps they have never heard. Only listening can determine that._

 

I can relate to this. TH has that subtle finesse that make it special - and most of the time it will be quite audible if one choose to concentrate in critical listening mode. But what I like the most about TH is the balance between "subtleness" and "agressive" - meaning with mosdt songs TH can adapt/synergize properly for that sweet listening experience - my GV6 8620/8610 on the other hand will remain always "relaxed" in contrast and this is good for casual long haul sessions.


----------



## thekid22

can we get any sort of insight into why you changed your tune so dramatically? can I ask if its product related or human related?

 I certainly understand if you choose not to say...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thekid22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can we get any sort of insight into why you changed your tune so dramatically? can I ask if its product related or human related?

 I certainly understand if you choose not to say..._

 

All you need to know regarding this topic has been revealed, right here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233352


----------



## EnOYiN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All you need to know regarding this topic has been revealed, right here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233352_

 

I just read it. That's shame indeed since I found his service to be among the best I ever had. I actually thought about buying the headphonia and I am glad that I didn't after all.


----------



## Skylab

*BACK ON TOPIC*:

 I have coming both an Xtra X1-Pro and a iBasso T2...I guess that means my "break" from reviewing portable amps didn't end up being very long


----------



## Techno Rocker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*BACK ON TOPIC*:

 I have coming both an Xtra X1-Pro and a iBasso T2...I guess that means my "break" from reviewing portable amps didn't end up being very long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Really looking forward to the X1-Pro review and how it compares to its brother, the X1. Same goes for the T1 and T2... Thanks for all of your contributions Skylab, keep up the good work.

 -T.R.


----------



## scottiebabie

ya skydude, it would be lovely to hear your views on the X1 pro as i should have a unit coming it the next coupla weeks. very glad ur hiatus from porty amps is over.


----------



## Killercrush

Skylab, did you pre-order the Portable Millett Hybrid from TTVJ ?

 It should be a top-contender IMO.

 Julien


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Killercrush* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, did you pre-order the Portable Millett Hybrid from TTVJ ?

 It should be a top-contender IMO.

 Julien_

 

I have a hard time getting my brain around a portable *tube* amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are there any pictures of this item? There are not on TTVJ's site...


----------



## Morph201

No pics yet! It's top secret!!


----------



## freakmax

I'm waiting for you to review the new govibe v6.
 Please please .. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be using it with my ety er4s.
 It's quite difficult to choose one.
 I'm now considering the govibe v6 ,Xenos 1HA-EPC , and Headphonia.
 Which one would sound better with ety?


----------



## Morph201

You might wanna avoid the headphonia, with all the controversy!


----------



## Skylab

I would love to try a GoVibe 6...I may buy one fairly soon, after the X1-PRo and iBasso T2 have been reviewed.


----------



## Killercrush

These two threads have some pics of the prototype, the production model will have nicer faceplates though.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...hlight=millett

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...ghlight=dallas

 Julien


----------



## scottiebabie

Skylab I just noticed you amended your review (on 1st post) to include a Non Recommendation for the Headphonia amp. No diss intended but is it possible that it might be a tad unfair? As the Headphonia/Meier Audio issue is still unresolved (currently with zero evidence of any wrong doing I might add), wouldn’t it be totally unjust to penalize Headphonia if the Non Recommendation is just because of unsubstantiated allegations and not any demerits on the amp itself?

 I believe you’re doing a great service to the community with your portable amp review. Its more than just difficult (nigh impossible for some of us) to find the resources, time, dedication and not to mention expertise to go through near 20 amps so that us, mere mortals, can have an invaluable guide to help us wade through these dark murky waters.

 As a well respected contributing headfier, I am hoping you would do more than just give us your opinions. We need your impartial opinions. Penalizing Headphonia due to allegations should be beneath you. By all means critique and condemn on the demerits and evidence as it deserves but IMHO impartiality dictates a statement to also include Meier Audio to join Headphonia to be Non Recommended until the matter is resolved or (atleast) till more solid evidence is unearthed. IMO anything else would be a disservice to either party.

 Once again I’d like to stress that I have nothing but utmost respect for you and your fine work. I have no vested interest in either company except maybe as a potential customer. It is because I do know how a hard won reputation can be affected by unsubstantiated rumors/allegations and how unfair and unjust that can be that I would not wish that on anyone.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scottiebabie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab I just noticed you amended your review (on 1st post) to include a Non Recommendation for the Headphonia amp. No diss intended but is it possible that it might be a tad unfair? As the Headphonia/Meier Audio issue is still unresolved (currently with zero evidence of any wrong doing I might add), wouldn’t it be totally unjust to penalize Headphonia if the Non Recommendation is just because of unsubstantiated allegations and not any demerits on the amp itself?

 I believe you’re doing a great service to the community with your portable amp review. Its more than just difficult (nigh impossible for some of us) to find the resources, time, dedication and not to mention expertise to go through near 20 amps so that us, mere mortals, can have an invaluable guide to help us wade through these dark murky waters.

 As a well respected contributing headfier, I am hoping you would do more than just give us your opinions. We need your impartial opinions. Penalizing Headphonia due to allegations should be beneath you. By all means critique and condemn on the demerits and evidence as it deserves but IMHO impartiality dictates a statement to also include Meier Audio to join Headphonia to be Non Recommended until the matter is resolved or (atleast) till more solid evidence is unearthed. IMO anything else would be a disservice to either party.

 Once again I’d like to stress that I have nothing but utmost respect for you and your fine work. I have no vested interest in either company except maybe as a potential customer. It is because I do know how a hard won reputation can be affected by unsubstantiated rumors/allegations and how unfair and unjust that can be that I would not wish that on anyone._

 

Scottiebabie, thanks for the comments and the kind words. Please note that I have never included a Meier amp in this survey. And while I understand your point, it is my opinion that:

 1. Meier deserves the benefit of the doubt as a long time sponsor of Head-fi and a generally well known entity here deserves more benefit of the doubt than a completely new player.

 2. I think people need to at least know that this is an issue. Then they can make up their own minds. I have never said that the Headphonia amp itself is anything other than I did in my review, which is a great amp. But this must be at least somewhat tempered with the issue between Headphonia and Meier, for now, in my opinion. Let the buyer be aware, that is all.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Killercrush* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These two threads have some pics of the prototype, the production model will have nicer faceplates though.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...hlight=millett

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...ghlight=dallas

 Julien_

 

Well, it looks very cool! But $459 is kinda pricey for me to just review it. Now if anyone wanto to loan me one for a few days


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have never said that the Headphonia amp itself is anything other than I did in my review, which is a great amp. But this must be at least somewhat tempered with the issue between Headphonia and Meier, for now, in my opinion. Let the buyer be aware, that is all._

 

I really enjoyed your reviews, Skylab, which are genuinely useful and represent commitment to the group way beyond the call of duty. I had understood that they were your assessment of the the amplifiers' sound quality and design, etc; but are you now telling us that your conclusions embrace other, non-technical, considerations, such as the ethical postures of the manufacturers?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really enjoyed your reviews, Skylab, which are genuinely useful and represent commitment to the group way beyond the call of duty. I had understood that they were your assessment of the the amplifiers' sound quality and design, etc; but are you now telling us that your conclusions embrace other, non-technical, considerations, such as the ethical postures of the manufacturers?_

 

The conclusions I have written about the amps involve nothing but their sound quality, except as noted w/r/t 2 things:

 1. My incredible dissatisfaction with Larocco Audio's customer service, and the horrible process I went through to get a PRII mk 2

 2. The situation with Meier and Headphonia.

 PLEASE NOTE: I have not changed my ranking of the Headphonia amp, nor will I. I simply think buyers should be aware of the issue. That said, I have edited the language to be more clear.


----------



## richsto

Thanks for the additions Skylab - I'm really enjoying my Xenos thanks to you!

 Rich


----------



## Zodduska

amazing work Skylab, this should get a sticky~


----------



## 3X0

Excellent reviews, Skylab. Looks like my C&C Box V2 was a downgrade from my/your Go-Vibe 5 in your perspective.. I'm still happy with both of them though (and incidentally, I prefer the former). Goes to show how perceptions and preferences can be different!

 Do you intend to review the C&C XO?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *3X0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent reviews, Skylab. Looks like my C&C Box V2 was a downgrade from my/your Go-Vibe 5 in your perspective.. I'm still happy with both of them though (and incidentally, I prefer the former). Goes to show how perceptions and preferences can be different!

 Do you intend to review the C&C XO?_

 


 Thanks! I am going to try to get a C&C XO - I love the purple ones


----------



## Techno Rocker

Skylab,
 Did you happen to get the X1-Pro or other amps yet?

 -T.R.


----------



## Thelonious Monk

just a question; are you going to go through the painful process of dealing with larocco audio to get your hands on the diablo? i hear it comes out right after duke nukem forever.


----------



## abitdeef

Lol ^ Duke we miss you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 at least Stalker made it, if a bit messy.

 Nice Article skylab!! I just had a tomahawk moment- I was listening to a master recording of Rush's "Signals" the song New World Man. I have listened to this recording many many times, but never noticed how good Geddy's foot petal work is on that song, plus singing and a simple bass line to boot.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Techno Rocker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,
 Did you happen to get the X1-Pro or other amps yet?

 -T.R._

 

Not yet...watching the mailbox daily...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thelonious Monk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just a question; are you going to go through the painful process of dealing with larocco audio to get your hands on the diablo? i hear it comes out right after duke nukem forever._

 

If it ever comes out, I will get to listen to it for ONE DAY, and then it goes to the person who I sold my place in line to...


----------



## lamb

This post is killing me..... my purse will be empty soon..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Skylab, great work! Many thanks! Can't wait for your review of more portable amps.


----------



## nfusion770

This is an awesome review- can't believe I am seeing it for the first time today. 

 Out of the handful of portables I have heard, I still consider the SR-71 the king (well outside of the XP-7 which would probably make the Larocco look like a miniature). I have very limited portable needs which are more than satisfied by my supermicro, but it makes me wonder where the Xin amps would stack up in direct comparison.

 This should be a sticky- the fact that it is recent along with the sheer number of amps reviewed makes it an invaluable resource.

 Thanks Skylab- at nearly 20 pages I am sure your work has been very helpful to many, many headfiers.

 Edit: If you have the time or inclination Skylab, I would be happy to offer up my Xin Supermicro for review. Several Xin fans believe its the best sounding stock Xin amp. Considering your experience with the Supermacro, it may be a useful amp to review. I haven't had an SR-71 in a while, and would be interested to hear your impressions.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, and you have a PM


----------



## Gautama

Skylab, have you listened to the HR Airhead?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gautama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, have you listened to the HR Airhead?_

 

Not the current version. My first portable amp was a Total Airhead, but I found it too colored. The new one may be much better, though.


----------



## grndslm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not the current version. My first portable amp was a Total Airhead, but I found it too colored. The new one may be much better, though._

 

What does "too colored" sound like?? I don't get it...seems like you couldn't get too much color, could you?


----------



## PFKMan23

Too colored can be alot of different things, too dark, too bright, too sibilant, too boomy, etc...


----------



## lamb

Skylab,

 Notice that you've chosen 5 songs/music for the auditions. I haven't heard of them except Patricia Barber. Please, can you explain a bit about the songs/music and the rationale of using them? Any orchestral music and music with double bass are used?

 Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grndslm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does "too colored" sound like?? I don't get it...seems like you couldn't get too much color, could you?_

 

With the crossfeed on, the version of the Airhead I had was too warm sounding, and with it off, it was too cold sounding.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 Notice that you've chosen 5 songs/music for the auditions. I haven't heard of them except Patricia Barber. Please, can you explain a bit about the songs/music and the rationale of using them? Any orchestral music and music with double bass are used?

 Thanks!_

 

Sure, good question. Here is the skinny:

 • Patricia Barber – “All or Nothing at All”, Nightclub 

 Chosen for listening to the delicate hall ambience, to listen for treble resolution, and for midrange naturalness of Patricia's voice.

 • Holly Cole, “Looking for the Heart of Saturday Night”, Temptation

 Chose for the acoustic bass - should be deep and tight, as well as another test of midrange naturalness for Holly's voice

 • Crash Test Dummies, “In the Days of the Caveman”, God Shuffled His Feet

 Test of kickdrum, treble extension, and a potential "trap" for excess sibilance, and a trap for excess lower midrange warmth with Brad Roberts baritone voice

 • Dave Matthews, “Oh”, Some Devil

 Chosen for the sub-terranean bass notes - tests deep bass extension and resolution

 • Jenny Lewis with the Watson Twins, “Handle With Care”, Rabbit Fur Coat.

 Chosen for midrange naturalness -- if the mids are too forward, this recording won't be fun to listen to since it's right on the edge.


----------



## tbonner1

Great list Sky, it shows you know what good sound is. I find female vocals are very revealing.

 I also like:

 Diana Krall-Love Scenes track 1 for bass, track 7 "I don't Stand a Ghost of a Chance" for midrange and air.

 Holly Cole-Don't Smoke in Bed (almost the entire CD is well recorded)


----------



## Skylab

Those are great recordings, too.


----------



## procreate

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[about the Diablo] If it ever comes out, I will get to listen to it for ONE DAY, and then it goes to the person who I sold my place in line to..._

 

Man, I'm so glad I didn't send my money. I didn't have a problem with Dr. Xin, as he only charges right before shipping. I was so close to getting in line for the Diablo as it looks beautiful and with the right heritage …


----------



## Dan the man

What is the advantage of the XIN SuperMacro-IV vs the LE version??


----------



## Dan the man

What is the difference between the Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II Mk 2 and the prior version. I had my Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II upgraded to a AD744 version. It sounds great.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan the man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the difference between the Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II Mk 2 and the prior version. I had my Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II upgraded to a AD744 version. It sounds great._

 

The mk2 has a gain switch, which is handy, but there is still some hiss from the AD744 with high sensitivity/low impedance 'phones, even in low gain.


----------



## procreate

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan the man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the advantage of the XIN SuperMacro-IV vs the LE version??_

 

Nothing. You choose the LE if you want to use low-voltage CMOS opamps/buffers. So the difference lies in the sound you seek.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mk2 has a gain switch, which is handy, but there is still some hiss from the AD744 with high sensitivity/low impedance 'phones, even in low gain._

 

But it sounds so musical with the AD744.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But it sounds so musical with the AD744._

 

No doubt! It sounds terrific. Still my favorite portable amp.


----------



## Killercrush

Skylab, Make sure to give us some impressions about the PR-X when you'll have it ! (Read that on Ipodstudio)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Killercrush* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, Make sure to give us some impressions about the PR-X when you'll have it ! (Read that on Ipodstudio)_

 

Will do.

 The Xtra X-1 Pro arrived today. I can't listen to it until next week, though, since I am on a business trip, and I also need to give it 100 hours burn in. My C&C XO has also shipped to me, so there will be a lot of burn in going on over the weekend


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do.

 The Xtra X-1 Pro arrived today. I can't listen to it until next week, though, since I am on a business trip, and I also need to give it 100 hours burn in. My C&C XO has also shipped to me, so there will be a lot of burn in going on over the weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, you really do need help! I think I've discovered a new compulsive disorder!! Woot! I'm going to be famous! Sky, are you willing to be my case study?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, you really do need help! I think I've discovered a new compulsive disorder!! Woot! I'm going to be famous! Sky, are you willing to be my case study?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Errrr...no.

 Funny thing is I oen less portable amps than many head-fiers. I just like to try them out, I actually keep very few


----------



## Morph201

Hehe, but you can't resist buying them!


----------



## Skylab

I buy...I listen...I review...I sell (mostly). Yeah, I take a 20% hit for trying them out. But I enjoy that, so it's cool. 

 Although I really hope the C&C XO sounds good, because I can tell you my purple-colored one is gonna look bad as ****


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I buy...I listen...I review...I sell (mostly). Yeah, I take a 20% hit for trying them out. But I enjoy that, so it's cool. 

 Although I really hope the C&C XO sounds good, because I can tell you my purple-colored one is gonna look bad as **** 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmmm... denial is a river in Egypt, right? (kiddin),.. btw wanna send those 20% losses to Help Darren get a Meridian fund?


----------



## Techno Rocker

A...Week!?

 NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 You can't do this to me! (I know that you can and wll, but still!)

 I really want that amp, but I want to know what you think of it first. Is it possible to burn it in while you're away? If not, oh well...I'll try to have some patience. *sigh* Thanks for what you're doing though.

 Morph201:

 I'll be your case study if you buy me tons of amps!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Might defeat the purpose though...

 -T.R.


----------



## Skylab

LOL, sorry man, but I have a day job


----------



## Techno Rocker

No worries. Your family comes first. Its all good.

 To quote Docto Who: "First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -T.R.


----------



## Biff Wellington

Well, after emailing Ray Samuels (who advised me that he had some Hornets coming by the weekend), I decided to take the plunge and order a Hornet. However, after totaling up the price of the batteries, the shipping, and everything else, it came out to $395. Now I'm wondering if I should have just bought the SR-71 for the extra $20 or so.

 Anyone want to refute that thought to make the newbie feel a little better? I wouldn't be opposed to a wagging finger as a lesson either, I suppose...


----------



## Morph201

Been there and done that!

 SR-71
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: After reading Skylab's post, I'll be more descriptive with mine. As you know the SR-71 doesn't have a charger, is somewhat larger (that rhymed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and is not able to change gain on the fly, but the SR-71 with *normal* gain (6) is fine for both full sized cans or IEMs. Now, knowing all that! The SR-71 does have a better soundstage\imaging, more airy feel to the music, not as much PUNCH to the bass as the hornet, BUT bass is definitely there! And much better display of "microdetails".... Whereas the Hornet (as Sky mentioned) is more feature rich (variable gain setting,smaller,battery charger), and has a more in your face presentation (well that was my take). It also depends on what genre you prefer. I found the SR-71 better suited for classical\jazz (acoustical) whereas the Hornet seemed better for rock\r&b. Either way you won't go wrong, since they both contain the RSA sound sig. overall. But, keep in mind, especially with the 20 dollar difference, you're paying a premium for the size\charging ability. After hearing the two, I still think the SR-71 is slightly better class (soundwise) amp, if you don't mind swapping batteries every 50-70 hours!

 Good luck!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Biff Wellington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, after emailing Ray Samuels (who advised me that he had some Hornets coming by the weekend), I decided to take the plunge and order a Hornet. However, after totaling up the price of the batteries, the shipping, and everything else, it came out to $395. Now I'm wondering if I should have just bought the SR-71 for the extra $20 or so.

 Anyone want to refute that thought to make the newbie feel a little better? I wouldn't be opposed to a wagging finger as a lesson either, I suppose..._

 

I *slightly* preferred the sound of the SR-71, but the Hornet is fuller featured, and the fact that the SR-71 doesn't charge batteries and the Horten does means that the RSA amp I use the most is my battery-sipping Tomahawk.

 I think you will LOVE the Hornet.


----------



## dipnorge

Help me decide: Xenos 0HA-REP or iBasso T1? Ruggedness counts but not as much as SQ. Thanks.


----------



## tnmike1

Had the Hornet, moved "up" to the SR-71. Yeah, a little larger but still fits in my Headroom minibag with my Ipod. And battery life? Check the site. Some of us are getting hundred-plus hours off Ultralife Lithium disposables while I'm getting really good hours out of Ipower 300 mah NiMH. Don't let that stop you.

 Or throw another amp in the mix--Portaphle maxxed??? Gotta be willing to change batteries every 4-7 hrs but with rechargeables maybe that's a non-issue too.


----------



## koike

just get a portable battery pack!
 with the voltage above 12V it becomes a totally different beast.


----------



## b7nguyen

Aww man....what have I done!?!? I went loco and just ordered an M Hornet + ALO Cotton Dock. Its gonna be bread and water for awhile 

 This all started In Feb when I found the Grado 80s on Amazon, then I upgraded to the Senn HD580 a month later, then I got an AirHead, then I found this site, then this!!! Ok....gotta stop reading these sweet reviews from you guys, I dont deal with temptation very well 

 BTW, it was b/c of Skylab's review that I got the Hornet. Thanks buddy... I think...


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *b7nguyen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aww man....what have I done!?!? I went loco and just ordered an M Hornet + ALO Cotton Dock. Its gonna be bread and water for awhile 

 This all started In Feb when I found the Grado 80s on Amazon, then I upgraded to the Senn HD580 a month later, then I got an AirHead, then I found this site, then this!!! Ok....gotta stop reading these sweet reviews from you guys, I dont deal with temptation very well 

 BTW, it was b/c of Skylab's review that I got the Hornet. Thanks buddy... I think... _

 

Welcome to the club! It doesn't stop there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stock up on Ramen noodles!!


----------



## silverrain

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the club! It doesn't stop there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Stock up on Ramen noodles!!_

 

Dang! You beat me to it with the Ramen thing....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Joining Head-Fi is a guaranteed weight-loss diet for many.


----------



## Nattydraddy

Not only weight lost. My brain gets woozy. I bought a pair of Shure SE530. My Shure E1 got a cable break. And i don´t know if Shure will give me an exchange if i sent them in. ´Cause they are ~5 years old and the Shure E1 gets nowaday selled from Westone (as UM1-classic).

 But for the Shure SE530 a need an amp that delivers me a black background. ´Cause i own a iRiver H340, that produce a lot of hiss. I already read from one member here, who also got these Shure´s and have even hiss than he put his Headroom MicroAmp between his Shure and his iRiver H340.

 In the last two moth a read so much about headphone amplifiers, that i just got confused. And every week comes a new portable headphone amplifier out. Or they get updated. There are not only different kinds of Go-Vibe V6, you have also Go-Vibe V6 with AD6810/6820 of with AD8937 and...

 As soon as a op-amp comes in fashion you get a headphone amplifiers offerd with them. But as soon i learned enough about an op-amp and the specific headphone amplifier, there are again better headphone amplifiers available.

 For me are the amps from Ray Samuels best now. Cause he never updates them. And only comes out with a new portable in one or two years.

 If i understand this review right, i can use a Tomahawk also for my AKG K-701. ´Cause the Tomahawk was nearly as good as the Hornet or the SR-71 for Skylab. And he made the test with full-size headphones.

 I know for example one with an Emmerline Hornet, who likes the Hornet in the bassdepartment with this IEM. But he wants an amp with more pressure in the lows for use with his Sennheiser HD650.

 For the Tomahawk states Ray Samuel:"The Tomahawk has a 2 position gain switch. The "low" gain of (1) which is dedicated to all IEMs and the "high" gain of (4) which is designed to drive the low impedance headphones."
 And no gain-swith for high impedance headphones like skylabs DT 880 with 250 ohm.

 Seems logically to me, ´cause a SR-71 has two 9V-Batteries, a Hormet has one 9V-Battery and a Tomahawk has only two AAA batteries. And they last forever.

 So how can a Tomahawk deliver enough power for a full-size headphone like my AKG K-701? Or are my K-701 to much for a Tomahawk and it would be better to upgrade also my headphone-amp for my AKG K-701?


----------



## Skylab

Are you really going to use the K701's portably? The Tomahawk can drive them in my experience, but if you want more power, then the SR71 will fill the bill nicely.


----------



## Nattydraddy

I won´t use the K-701 outdoors. But i should go to bed now. If i sleep with IEMs in my ears i could get an earinfection. Very painfull. I could also cary my desktop headphone-amp in my bedroom and plug it there into a power outlet. But í´m to tired for that.

 Another thing is that my desktop headphone-amp is a cheap one. It is modified, so it sound like a Headfive. But if i would have a Tomahawk i may don´t want to use my ugly desktop headphone-amp anymore. My desktop headphone-amp doesn´t even has an on/off switch, so i always have to pull the jack out of the power outlet. A Tomahawk seems to run a eternity with one pair of batteries. Very comfortable.

 I don´t hear music loud. But the K-701 realy needs a good amplification to sound good at low volume. Otherwise the dynamics will break in.

 I could live with a bigger amp. But one thing that the Emmeline SR-71 is missing is a gain switch. For the Shure SE530 seems to be the lowest posible gain the best, ´cause otherwise i´ll hear hiss. I actually read from one, that he hears hiss with a Emmeline SR-71.

 I can´t see how much power a Tomahawk or a Hornet can deliver. a Tomahawk use just two AAA instead og two 9V blocks, so it has to live with less voltage. But the Emmerline SR-71 seems to be quite inefficent in power consumtion compared to the Tomahawk.

 So i need a headphone amp with two qualities. On one side i want a headphone amp that can drive my Shure SE530 with no or little hiss. On the other side the amp should be able to drive my K-701 with full dynamics on low volume.

 What amp seems best for that: a Tomahawk, a Hornet, a SR-71 or a protable amp from another company?


----------



## Skylab

I would get a Hornet for that.


----------



## papomaster

I need some advice on this question, and skylab's opinion would help me greatly (since he owned about all the small portables out there) : what would be the best suited amp for someone who likes very punchy, low-reaching and textured bass, some clear mids and grainless highs (no need to have a lot of extension, that'd be nice though) with a 100-150$ budget?
 They would be to complement my e4c - Zen Vision :M combo.

 In his review, skylab gives the Practical Devices XM4 pretty good grades overall and it has a pretty low price (around 120$). I wonder why it hasn't got alot of praise around here. It seems to have a sound sig I'd like.


----------



## Skylab

Papomaster, given what you are looking for, the Xm4, or the Portaphile V2 would be good choices.


----------



## Nattydraddy

ok, thanks. With the hortnet i am on the safe side. In the tread " Hornet M + HD580's = Not Loud Enough?" write one: "Surely nobody listens to there hornets at full volume. If they do I suggest they see a specialist !"

 I like the style Ray Samuel makes his amps, he never changes the design. But this has also a drawback - no Hornet for months. Because he can´t get some parts, that he needs to manufacture original Hornets.

 Had just a look at fixup.net, ´cause the XIN Supermini also only use two AAA. But the Supermini has also a boost, so it get 5,5 Volt. Even very battery friendly op-amps need 5 Volt. I don´t know how Ray Samuel constuct the Tomahawk so it run on only two AAA bateries. In the description of the amp, Ray Samual states that the Tomahawk is made as simple as possible. I can imaging that the Tomahawk uses AD8610 op-amps, ´cause they needs only 5.5 Volt and runs with 2.5 MA current per channel.

 If it´s true, the Tomahawk could also drive my K-701. I may send an e-mail to Ray Samuel, he will knows best.

 Another think i can do is to order a Tomahawk and a Supermini together an test for myself, if and that for an amp with two AAA batteries can drive my K-701.

 The good thing at the Superminis and -macros is, that they are back in production since a few hours. And come with a new configuration based on OPA 227 op-amps. I do not like all these updates, but the OPA 227 needs just 5,5 Volt and fits so perfectly to a Supermicro. And the OPA should run without background noise/hiss. And thats realy something that i need for my Shure SE530.

 I only don´t know if i still have to wait for four months to get a Supermicro. Dr. Xin is back in produktion, but i can´t know, if he manufactures amps till my assignment is on turn.


----------



## papomaster

Thanks Skylab, I'll wait to read the reviews on C&C XO and BOX+ (OMG, so gorgeous....) and I'll probably pull the trigger on xm4.


----------



## productred

i'm really looking forward to skylab's review of the new x1pro.........not rushing tho so take your time. just that i'm really looking forward to it. to my ears it sound sooooo much better than the Xenos 0ha-REP in both its detail presentation and soundstaging and it is packed with WARMTH which is painfully lacking in the 0ha-REP, or maybe in particular, OPA2134. indeed i found the REP pretty noisy.........noisy in two ways: background noise and also a "noisy" presentation of details (everything seems to be jumping out screaming at you all at the same time).

 still i'm still looking forward to opinion from others, especially as the REP is pretty well received while the x1pro is still new and have not gone thru much scrutiny......................to put it simply, i wanna trust my ears but i dun until my views are echoed. not healthy isn't it?


----------



## daveDerek

skylab, did you say that someone will be lending you a headamp ae-2 sometime soon? asr's impressions make it sound like these are a must include in your thread. see:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...49&postcount=9
 and
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...0&postcount=21


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, did you say that someone will be lending you a headamp ae-2 sometime soon? asr's impressions make it sound like these are a must include in your thread. see:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...49&postcount=9
 and
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...0&postcount=21_

 


 Yep, right after the national meet.


----------



## Nattydraddy

I also had a look there (and other threads touching the AE-2), ´cause i can´t buy a Hornet at time. The AE-2 sounds maybe also more like a SF-71, but with a lot more features as a SR-71.

 But i just get another brain drain, there are to many good amps comming out. I will just buy a Tomahawk. Maybe it´s the right one for me, maybe not. At least i won´t suffer anymore from reading so much about headphone amps.


----------



## Morph201

Judging from the list of amps you're considering, you should be very happy with the sound quality, no matter which you choose. NOW, you need to base your choice on features, customer service, and maybe even LOOK and FEEL (how are the knobs, switches, etc.. organized). That should make the decision process easier. Going through all these threads will have you running in circles trying to choose an amp!


----------



## Nattydraddy

That´s true, ´cause everyone describe the sound of an amp different. But same for experiences with customer service, durability and so on.

 Depending feature, i realy prefer less. Every feature intriduce hiss/nise into the signal path and my main concern is hiss, ´cause i have the iRiver H300 + Shure SE530 combination.

 I also have less to care about. Keep it slim and simple = KISS.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *papomaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Skylab, I'll wait to read the reviews on C&C XO and BOX+ (OMG, so gorgeous....) and I'll probably pull the trigger on xm4._

 

If you do and later feel like improving the sound get an AD8620 op-amp to replace the stock OPA2134. The change in detail, openness, and clarity is amazing.


----------



## Skylab

Hi all. I just added the following to my review:

*UPDATE 4/14/07:*

 Well, so much for my being done reviewing portable amps. I guess I was being overly optimistic. But really cool amps keep coming out that I want to check out, and I was asked by another head-fier to do review one, so I did.

 So I am now adding the Xin SuperMicro IV, The Xtra X-1 Pro, and the C&C XO. 



*> Xin SuperMicro IV *

 http://www.fixup.net/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1759 

 I was asked to review a SuperMicroIV by Nfusion770. So I did. 

 First of all, let’s talk about form factor. The SuperMicroIV looks like it was built into a piece of lego. It actually made me laugh. Its sound quality though, is no joke. It’s a seriously good amp.

*Build Quality:* B-: The nicest thing I can say about the build quality is it’s functional enough, I suppose. But this amp has ZERO style points. I doubt it would ever really be possible to break it, but you could easily move it wrong and have the lid and battery come flying out. It’s pretty hard to take the amp seriously based on its physical being. Sonically, however…. 
*Treble:* A: Smooth, open, clear, and detailed without being the least bit harsh or etched. Transparent, smooth, and neutral. Truly among the best. I was surprised.
*Midrange:* A: Smooth, open, and jaw-droppingly transparent. How does he do it? The mids are completely neutral. Impressive as hell.
*Bass: * A-: Punchy, deep, powerful. Good pitch , attach, and definition. Not the bassiest amp there is to be sure, but in no way lacking.
*Neutrality:* A: this amp is utterly neutral. 
*Soundstaging:* A-: soundstage width is excellent, depth is just short of the best.
*Transparency:* A: Really amazingly transparent. Certainly feels like a wide-open window on the music. The WOW factor is there in spades. 

 When you LOOK at the SuperMicro, you’d say “I paid $170 for this? What a rip off!”. But when you LISTEN to the SuperMicro, you’ll say “I can’t believe this thing was only $170”. It sounds that good. 

 Buyer beware: Xin is a frustrating company to buy from. I have never, ever heard of someone who in the end didn’t get their amp, and Xin allows payment by credit card where he does not charge you until he ships, so he’s better than Larocco Audio in that respect. But based on my experience with the SuperMicroIV (and my prior experience with the SuperMacroIII and IV), I understand why people will put up with the wait. This is a great amp. 


*> Xtra X-1 Pro*

 (No website that I am aware of; can be ordered from EBay seller Jasmine_Chine, which is where I bought mine)

 My experience with the original X-1 was mixed. I thought it sounded pretty good, but my first one failed. The second worked fine, and had a very definite character which I thought some would love and some might not.

 The X-1 Pro also has a specific character, but not the same as I recall the original X-1 having (although I did not have it around to compare directly with).

*Build Quality:* B+: Externally 100% identical to the original X-1, as best I can tell. Small; nice enough metal case. Aside from built in battery, zero features. AC charger requires adapter to be used in the US. Loud turn on pop, but the amp had ZERO hiss – very quiet.
*Treble:* A-: Smooth and grainless. On the edge of bright. But pretty transparent.
*Midrange:* B+: Very forward sounding mids. Transparent enough, but they will not suit every headphone. The Sennheiser HD25-1 was not a good match. However, it was a great match for the Beyer DT770, and in fact may be my new recommendation for DT770 users who want a portable amp that will bring the mids up a bit. Careful headphone matching will be key here.
*Bass: * B+: Maybe it’s the jacked up mids, but the bass seems a bit lacking in quantity. Bass quality was good, though, with, good definition. 
*Neutrality:* B+: Would be better if the mids were less pronounced and the whole spectrum a bit smoother. But again, this will be great for some headphones. 
*Soundstaging:* A-: excellent depth, good width. The soundstaging was convincing.
*Transparency:* B+: Basically transparent, although not among the very best here.

 The X-1 Pro is not the warm, fat sounding amp I found the original amp to be, but it’s not completely neutral, either. Its forward mids will excite and thrill some, and will be a good match with come headphones. With others it will make the sound too aggressive and painful. Careful headphone matching will be key.


*> C&C XO*

http://www.headb.com/xo/index.html

 The new C&C amp, the XO, is drop-deap gorgeous. Mine is purple, and beautiful. It comes with a nice leather wrap, and a nice box. Top class all the way. This amp has a lot of features – a low frequency boost, a gain switch, an impedance switch, a soundfield enhancer. I preferred it greatly to the C&C Box V2 sonically was well, although it’s still not going to be everyone’s cup of tea.

*Build Quality:* A-: Very nice metal case. Very pretty. Slight turn on thump but no big deal. Not the beefiest thing in some ways, but elegant.
*Treble:* B+: Treble is smooth and silky. Lacks ultimate top end extension and air, though. Relaxed and non-fatiguing.
*Midrange:* A-: It’s very laid back and warm. Clean and smooth, and not at all forward. Maybe a little too much so, but it does have almost a tube-like charm.
*Bass: * A-: Strong and punchy – good bass performance. Good detail and attack. 
*Neutrality:* B+: It isn’t really neutral, but it sure is pleasant. Warm and friendly. Invitingly relaxed sound, and was a very good match for the HD25-1’s. 
*Soundstaging:* B+: Good depth, fair width. The soundfield processor was actually pretty effective, although it does have some impact on frequency response.
*Transparency:*B+-: Pretty transparent sound. Not among the very best, but not really an issue..

 The C&C XO is a very pretty looking, and very pretty sounding amp. It’s funny how much this amp’s sound matches its looks (versus the Xin where they are polar opposites). It’s also funny that it’s sort of the opposite sound of the new Xtra X-1 as well. The C&C Box V2 did not impress me. But I really like the XO. It’s very easy to recommend for a relaxed sounding, almost tubey amp, that will certainly attract compliments from anyone who sees it.


 OK, so now Its now 1 amps! And it could be 20, but I have removed the Headphonia from the rankings. The design I heard I don’t believe should be included, but if it ever really gets resolved and a new amp comes out I will try to review that. I also took off the GoVibe 5 since it’s not current and I have not heard the GV6. But here is my view on how the amps stacked up.

 1. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Xin SuperMicro IV
 7. Headamp AE-1
 8. Portaphile V2^2
 9. Storm B-4
 10. iBasso P-1
 11. C&C XO
 12. Practical Devices XM4
 13. Xtra X-1 Pro
 14. Xenos 0HA-REP
 15. iBasso T1
 16. Xtra X-1
 17. C&C Box V2
 18. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## nickknutson

Thanks for reviewing the SMIV, Rob! What type of phones did you use when you reviewed it? Full size? If so, what is the impedence of the cans and did the SMIV seem like it was pushing to drive them?


----------



## jinp6301

the Xin is still below the 3 RSA amps. Interesting


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for reviewing the SMIV, Rob! What type of phones did you use when you reviewed it? Full size? If so, what is the impedence of the cans and did the SMIV seem like it was pushing to drive them?_

 

I used primarily Sennheiser HD25-1's, which are truly excellent headphones, and are my main portable headphone. They are 70 ohm.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the Xin is still below the 3 RSA amps. Interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I spent a LOT of time going back and forth between the Xin and the RSA Tomahawk. I slightly prefered the Tomahawk, and pretty consistently, but the Xin is very close. It totally lacks the TH's great industrial design, but it is over $100 cheaper. So it's something of a bargain from a sonic point of view.

 When I had a SuperMacro IV, I slightly preferred the RSA Hornet M to that, but again, it was very close.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent a LOT of time going back and forth between the Xin and the RSA Tomahawk. I slightly prefered the Tomahawk, and pretty consistently, but the Xin is very close. It totally lacks the TH's great industrial design...
 When I had a SuperMacro IV, I slightly preferred the RSA Hornet M to that, but again, it was very close._

 

I understand it's 'just your opinion', but essentially you're saying you wouldn't wait 3-4 months when you could get a slightly better amp (sq, and buildwise) in 2-3 days!


----------



## Skylab

For me that is true, yes. I would buy an RSA amp over a Xin amp any day of the week just because I did not like the crazy Xin waiting/update game. But that's me - YMMV.


----------



## jamato8

A quick question since I have read that the latest and possibly final version is post 4/11/07, what is the date of production for the unit you are using?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A quick question since I have read that the latest and possibly final version is post 4/11/07, what is the date of production for the unit you are using?_

 

It likely is not the VERY last version. Is there ever a very last version of a Xin amp? I doubt it. But this SMIV is several months old, IIRC.


----------



## AFAI

Great reviews as always Skylab!


----------



## jamato8

No, I am not sure there will be a last version but in a post by Xin he seems to be pleased with the final version that is now available. It appears that the Micro, Mini, Macro and LE have the same level of sound and that the latest power supply has had a dramatic effect on sound quality.


----------



## nfusion770

Thanks for reviewing the new amps Skylab. Great additions.

 Because of the waiting game, I would rather do business with Ray than Xin too, however, the micro is the size of a 9 volt battery and is easily the most portable amp made (at least that I am aware of). I am a big fan of every Ray Samuels amp I've ever owned, but there is only one way to get an amp as tiny as the Supermicro.

 I tend to concur with the review though, the build quality of the micro is pretty laughable- the battery terminals, for example, are very flimsy. My memory isn't great for this kind of stuff, but I still consider the SR-71 the best sounding portable I've heard.

 Edit- Just to be clear, the Supermicro was updated as of Sept 2006. I haven't heard of any revisions since, but I haven't really looked as I don't have any plans to send it off for the 2 month trip. Its seems you have to review a Xin amp as it is, otherwise you could claim "the new update is better" to infinity. If the new update is actually better, Skylab's review can be referenced as a starting point.


----------



## 3X0

Morph201, how come you exploit every viable opportunity to extol RSA amps while downplaying Xin amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the XO review, Skylab.


----------



## Morph201

Me? Do my posts come across that way? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it's time someone dispelled the 'Xin-mystique'. The only issue I do have with Dr. Xin is his CS.. or lack thereof. But aside from that, the SQ of his amps (I've only heard one) are very good and priced very well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 <-- See that's something positive!


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *3X0* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Morph201, how come you exploit every viable opportunity to extol RSA amps while downplaying Xin amps? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the XO review, Skylab._

 

haha yea. you do come off that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Xin's CS isint bad, its just that he take a long time to get his products out. I think the only thing he can change is his advertised "2 - 3 weeks" delivery time. Us on head-fi know its really like 3 - 4 months but the general public, if they want to buy it, then they have no idea how long it really takes. I really like Xin's free upgrade service, especially if you have a really old version of the amp.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha yea. you do come off that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Xin's CS isint bad, its just that he take a long time to get his products out. I think the only thing he can change is his advertised "2 - 3 weeks" delivery time. Us on head-fi know its really like 3 - 4 months but the general public, if they want to buy it, then they have no idea how long it really takes. I really like Xin's free upgrade service, especially if you have a really old version of the amp._

 

Not responding to emails and leaving people in the dark is very bad in my opinion...


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not responding to emails and leaving people in the dark is very bad in my opinion... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's kinda fun! I don't mind it at all....because I already know what I'm in for before I placed my order! I just sit back and wait for it's arrival. PLUS, *I like surprises!*


----------



## Morph201

Haha! that's fine and dandy for you, but not for me and I'm sure others.. Not to take anything away from the good doctor, I (me personally, not you) don't find any justification for the wait.. Heck I've received items from Germany faster and with the knowledge that I will be satisfied with the SQ for a WHILE!


----------



## nickknutson

To each, their own.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To each, their own._

 

Yep! I'm a neurotic, so I need constant feedback!!


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not responding to emails and leaving people in the dark is very bad in my opinion... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He responded to my emails, just not as promptly as Ray did. But I obviously know that Rays service is much much better then Xins.


----------



## flamerz

Awesome, glad to see you're still adding new amps. Hope to see more, Skylab. Maybe once you get enough this could be stickied or something.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He responded to my emails, just not as promptly as Ray did. But I obviously know that Rays service is much much better then Xins._

 


 Wow! Well, maybe I stink or he doesn't like me?? Because he NEVER responded to me!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems you're happy with it and I can't argue with that! 

 PS: Oh, btw if you haven't heard: *RSA AMPS > XIN's!* 
 [Kiddin!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! Well, maybe I stink or he doesn't like me?? Because he NEVER responded to me!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems you're happy with it and I can't argue with that! 

 PS: Oh, btw if you haven't heard: *RSA AMPS > XIN's!* 
 [Kiddin!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]_

 

Actually your wife has been calling all the vendors she can find. Pretty soon none of them will talk to you. Your only option will be to go NINJA! Of course when your wife finds out she will kick your sorry behind out!


----------



## JimP

x


----------



## JimP

x


----------



## GreatDane

I have 3 portable amps that have enough power to faithfully drive full size can. I don't have any mega-buck home amps(nor do I claim to have "golden ears")...but these portable amps deliver 80%+ performance of my home amps. 

 Portable amps interest me beyond the simple need I might have, I tend to want a collection of them. There are 2 portable amps that I want now but really don't need or have a real use for.


----------



## antonyfirst

Fantastic review about the Xin, Skylab. It would be nice if someone sent you a GoVibe V6... it's so common and so many people love it, that it shouldn't be missing in your reviews.


----------



## Skylab

I would love to review a GoVibe V6 and a Meier Porta Corda III. But I do not want to buy them, so it will have to wait until some kind head-fier wants to loan me one


----------



## antonyfirst

I'm sure many headfiers would love to see how will the Govibe V6 rank: many talk aout it as a bargain. Let's hope someone among them will send you his own amp. =]


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all, apologies if this is digressing or thread-jacking...

 Portable amps seem to have mushroomed and matured recently, how do they stack up head to head with decent respectable home amps? The cost of some of these portable amps are now crossing over to home amp territory, eg, EC/SS or Gilmore Lite, etc. Of course, portable amps serve a purpose (portability, etc), but straight up, how do they stack?

 Are the top five in the OP's list, for example, comparable to home amps of similar cost? Or they are generally still a step behind? I only ask because I suspect many who own these high quality portable amps also own decent home amps. And I'm wondering specifically whether to upgrade to a full-blown maxxed out SMIV that can serve double duty as home amp and portable amp?_

 

Thats what I did. I have an almost maxed supermacro LE which I think is ALMOST as good as a entry level tube amp.


----------



## jamato8

I have a SuperMacro 3B, which uses dual 5002's for each channel and I have old stock 5534 opamps from the 70's (the best year in my opinion) and it sounds great with my HD650's. 

 My maxed Woo 3 does sound different though, throwing a little larger staging and just plain sounds different but they both have their own qualities and for travel hearing the high quality sound I do with the SM3B, Monica II dac and what ever ear monitors I choose can't be beat.


----------



## kiwirugby

Thanks, skylab, for keeping this review as a work in progress. I am sure this is enormously helpful to those looking at portable amps. I agree with flamerz that this should be "stickied."

 As one who is waiting....patiently....for a SuperMicro, it's good to see a price to sq assessment on your part. I think I made a good choice.

 I know this is probably an impossible, impractical idea, but it would be really interesting to get another head-fi amp expert (I hope that's not over-stating, skylab!) to do an independent review of the 18 amps and see how high is the inter-rater reliability. marroyo and verlon have a really good set of reviews on amps as well. 

 This could be a live mini-meet with the audience anxiously awaiting the judges' opinions....we could watch the expessions as the judges listen and try to guess which amp is good, better, worse. Of course, this would be blind testing with a proctor/referee, of course. Maybe videotaped.....with the builders present...and a trophy!! A reality show??

 I have no idea where I am going with this. Sorry!


----------



## Skylab

I think the RSA SR71 and Larocco PRII are in the same league my Meier Headfive was, but they are not in the same league as my HA-2 II/SE, Opera or Singlepower amps.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually your wife has been calling all the vendors she can find. Pretty soon none of them will talk to you. Your only option will be to go NINJA! Of course when your wife finds out she will kick your sorry behind out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 

Haha! That's the goal!! I did a map quest already,so don't be surprised if I show up at your place with my rig and a 6 pack! You still have that guest room available?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I know this is probably an impossible, impractical idea, but it would be really interesting to get another head-fi amp expert (I hope that's not over-stating, skylab!) to do an independent review of the 18 amps and see how high is the inter-rater reliability. marroyo and verlon have a really good set of reviews on amps as well. 
_

 

The key I think would just be for more people to do a similar type of review. I hope that someone will. Mrarroyo and Vorlon's review is excellent, and it's good for head-fiers to have multiple datapoints on which to make decisions.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JimP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Portable amps seem to have mushroomed and matured recently, how do they stack up head to head with decent respectable home amps? The cost of some of these portable amps are now crossing over to home amp territory, eg, EC/SS or Gilmore Lite, etc. Of course, portable amps serve a purpose (portability, etc), but straight up, how do they stack?_

 

For me personally, the portable amps I've heard recently do not compare to the Gilmore Lite v2, with or without the DPS. My experience with portables so far leads me to believe that amps running solely on AC power have a significant advantage over battery-powered amps and help add grounding in the bass, control over layer separation, and overall blackness to the background, which can be big differences if you have equipment high-end enough to render those differences.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The key I think would just be for more people to do a similar type of review. I hope that someone will. Mrarroyo and Vorlon's review is excellent, and it's good for head-fiers to have multiple datapoints on which to make decisions._

 

I'm planning to do my own multi-way amp review sometime soon. Some of the amps are ones that Skylab has already covered but there are a couple that he hasn't. Will probably be posted at the end of May sometime. Nowhere near as many as Skylab of course, but I expect it to be long and detailed.


----------



## nfusion770

I'd advise anyone that wants an amp added to pm Skylab to see if he has time to review it, and if so, send it to him. I sent the micro to him last Monday and he is sending it back on Monday. In total I will be without it for about 10 days and it really only cost 5 bucks or so. I can't speak for Skylab, but it appears he enjoys these reviews and they can provide some great perspective on the multitude of amps available.

 Rob- it would be cool to see a top view photo of the 3 RS amps next to an Ipod or a 9 volt battery. In many photos it is tough to get a gauge on the size difference. I keep hearing how small the Tomahawk is, but it doesn't look that much smaller than the Hornet really.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nfusion770* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd advise anyone that wants an amp added to pm Skylab to see if he has time to review it, and if so, send it to him. I sent the micro to him last Monday and he is sending it back on Monday. In total I will be without it for about 10 days and it really only cost 5 bucks or so. I can't speak for Skylab, but it appears he enjoys these reviews and they can provide some great perspective on the multitude of amps available.

 Rob- it would be cool to see a top view photo of the 3 RS amps next to an Ipod or a 9 volt battery. In many photos it is tough to get a gauge on the size difference. I keep hearing how small the Tomahawk is, but it doesn't look that much smaller than the Hornet really._

 

GreatDane has kindly offered to send me his Porta Corda III. Yay!

 And yes, I do enjoy reviewing them!

 Dave my review does include a picture as you requested, not with every amp, but enough you would get the idea...certainly has the TH and a 9V battery


----------



## soloz2

if you want to compare the X-1 alongside the Xtra Pro I haven't gotten mine sold yet


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Soloz2, but I will pass on that. I'm getting a Meier PCIII on loan and that is my next move.


----------



## nickknutson

I've got a penguin tin cmoy you could borrow.


----------



## nfusion770

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GreatDane has kindly offered to send me his Porta Corda III. Yay!

 And yes, I do enjoy reviewing them!

 Dave my review does include a picture as you requested, not with every amp, but enough you would get the idea...certainly has the TH and a 9V battery 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Oops- I think I must have missed a couple of those pics- thanks.


----------



## productred

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Soloz2, but I will pass on that. I'm getting a Meier PCIII on loan and that is my next move._

 

Haha that's exactly what I'd wanna see next~ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And thx for the updated reviews, especially the X1pro review. As i said i found the synergy between this lil babe and my er4p->s mouthwatering..... who'd care for the relatively laid back bass when one's using er4 combo? **another ety smiley here pls~** it's one great amp that does not falter the ety signature. i'm wondering if PCIII would make a worthy (and maybe superior) alternative.


----------



## lamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Soloz2, but I will pass on that. I'm getting a Meier PCIII on loan and that is my next move._

 

Skylab, a big thank from me! Your latest reviews of Xin SupermicroIV and the others are great. I've enjoyed your reviews and through every page of this thread.

 I'm waiting for your next one on Meier PCIII, for sure!


----------



## bloodydoorknob

Yea, I was wondering where a xin amp would fit in all of this. Splendid review Skylab. Now, if only you could squeeze in a review of the headroom micro...


----------



## GreatDane

Did someone say Micro amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought of that myself but I know these things take time...and I know Skylab does have a life. Wouldn't it be fun to play all day. 

 ( but let me know)


----------



## yome6969

XO is'nt a giant killer.
 SuperMicroⅣ is a magnifico.
 Skylab is a magnifico. 
 I want to read the review about Go-Vibe V6 by Magnifico. 
 amam! ﾍ(ﾟ◇､ﾟ)ﾉ~ﾍ(ﾟ◇､ﾟ)ﾉ~ amam!


----------



## ugotamesij

Hi Skylab. Thanks for a great review!
 I don't have an amp yet but am seriously thinking about getting one. As I am but a poor student I don't have $300 to spend on the likes of an RS Tomahawk (*sigh*) so I'm setting my sights a bit lower for my first foray into portable amps. Don't suppose you have any plans to review any cheap-but-cheerful amps, like the Go-Vibe V6 or the MiniBox-D?
 Thanks again, and keep up the great work.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did someone say Micro amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I thought of that myself but I know these things take time...and I know Skylab does have a life. Wouldn't it be fun to play all day. 

 ( but let me know) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dane you are a very generous person, but I do not want to include the Microamp here. That isn't a comparable amp IMO. Now a current generation Total Airhead would be fun to add to the list


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ugotamesij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have an amp yet but am seriously thinking about getting one. As I am but a poor student I don't have $300 to spend on the likes of an RS Tomahawk (*sigh*) so I'm setting my sights a bit lower for my first foray into portable amps. Don't suppose you have any plans to review any cheap-but-cheerful amps, like the Go-Vibe V6 or the MiniBox-D?_

 

perhaps you might want to look into the go-vibe v5. as mentioned in another recent thread they are being sold off by the manufacturer for <$50 (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235661).
 the so. fl. boys seemed to like it more than skylab in their mammoth comparison of portable amps (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=203445).


----------



## ugotamesij

.


----------



## ugotamesij

Thanks for that Dave. I have heard good things about the Go-Vibe V5 but the V6 is a bit smaller and I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for extra portability. I can't seem to find any real in-depth reviews/comparisons of the V6 around here though...


----------



## Techno Rocker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*> Xtra X-1 Pro*

 (No website that I am aware of; can be ordered from EBay seller Jasmine_Chine, which is where I bought mine)

 My experience with the original X-1 was mixed. I thought it sounded pretty good, but my first one failed. The second worked fine, and had a very definite character which I thought some would love and some might not.

 The X-1 Pro also has a specific character, but not the same as I recall the original X-1 having (although I did not have it around to compare directly with).

*Build Quality:* B+: Externally 100% identical to the original X-1, as best I can tell. Small; nice enough metal case. Aside from built in battery, zero features. AC charger requires adapter to be used in the US. Loud turn on pop, but the amp had ZERO hiss – very quiet.
*Treble:* A-: Smooth and grainless. On the edge of bright. But pretty transparent.
*Midrange:* B+: Very forward sounding mids. Transparent enough, but they will not suit every headphone. The Sennheiser HD25-1 was not a good match. However, it was a great match for the Beyer DT770, and in fact may be my new recommendation for DT770 users who want a portable amp that will bring the mids up a bit. Careful headphone matching will be key here.
*Bass: * B+: Maybe it’s the jacked up mids, but the bass seems a bit lacking in quantity. Bass quality was good, though, with, good definition. 
*Neutrality:* B+: Would be better if the mids were less pronounced and the whole spectrum a bit smoother. But again, this will be great for some headphones. 
*Soundstaging:* A-: excellent depth, good width. The soundstaging was convincing.
*Transparency:* B+: Basically transparent, although not among the very best here.

 The X-1 Pro is not the warm, fat sounding amp I found the original amp to be, but it’s not completely neutral, either. Its forward mids will excite and thrill some, and will be a good match with come headphones. With others it will make the sound too aggressive and painful. Careful headphone matching will be key.
_

 

Perfect


----------



## chouman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dane you are a very generous person, but I do not want to include the Microamp here. That isn't a comparable amp IMO. Now a current generation Total Airhead would be fun to add to the list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why isn't it a comparable amp? Isn't it around the same price range as a Tomahawk? Although, I can see your point with the battery life of the Headroom Microamps. They don't last long at all, and so I ended up buying a SR-71 for portable use. I keep my micro to pair with my micro dac.


----------



## Skylab

I felt it not comparable due to size and form factor.


----------



## jinp6301

If you want to compare a Supermacro IV LE after I get it upgraded, send a PM my way. I'm interested in what you think of it.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I felt it not comparable due to size and form factor._

 

I can agree with the size factor. It really is a bit too large for attaching to a DAP. Also as chouman mentions, the battery life is poor.

 I'm repeating myself here but if the Micro had a rechargeable lithium battery I would use mine much more often. I hope HeadRoom has some improvements such as this in their next generation of portable amps.

 Connected to the fine wall wart that is supplied with the Micro, I feel that it's a great little amp with more than enough power for any headphone that I've used(up to 600 Ohms). With its great looks and build quality I consider it to be a mini desktop amp and I don't plan to sell mine anytime soon.


----------



## aluren

great review, skylab. i can see why you placed the supermicro at #6 considering the bad customer service and the plastic built. just like where restaurants are judged not just by the quality of food itself... 

 how about sound quality alone? do you think the supermicro is competitive with the hornet/tomahawk/sr-71?


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great review, skylab. i can see why you placed the supermicro at #6 considering the bad customer service and the plastic built. just like where restaurants are judged not just by the quality of food itself... 

 how about sound quality alone? do you think the supermicro is competitive with the hornet/tomahawk/sr-71?_

 

I'll take this one, Sky.

 Unfortunately the supermicro is NO competition for the SR-71. It lacks the air, attention to microdetails and overall refinement! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [kiddin...]


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_great review, skylab. i can see why you placed the supermicro at #6 considering the bad customer service and the plastic built. just like where restaurants are judged not just by the quality of food itself... 

 how about sound quality alone? do you think the supermicro is competitive with the hornet/tomahawk/sr-71?_

 

Aluren:

 My rankings are based on sound quality mostly, with a small consideration to build quality (customer service is NOT considered in the ranking).

 The Supermicro is not quite as good as the TH, IMO, but it is defintely competitive, yes. Very close.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll take this one, Sky.

 Unfortunately the supermicro is NO competition for the SR-71. It lacks the air, attention to microdetails and overall refinement! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [kiddin...]_

 

There goes your room.

 Actually I find the air between the notes, amazing soundstage, tube like sound, and overall pleasent presentation that makes the Supermicro IV the best portable amp I have listened to. It is the kind of sound I do not need to take a break away from. Yes the LaRocco PRII and the SR-71 are outstanding but IMO a close 2nd to the Supermicro IV.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There goes your room.

 Actually I find the air between the notes, amazing soundstage, tube like sound, and overall pleasent presentation that makes the Supermicro IV the best portable amp I have listened to. It is the kind of sound I do not need to take a break away from. Yes the LaRocco PRII and the SR-71 are outstanding but IMO a close 2nd to the Supermicro IV._

 

lol.. hey, I said I was kiddin'!!!


----------



## GreatDane

I have a question for mrarroyo or any other Supermicro owner who has used it with power hungry cans.

 How well does it drive cans like K 701, DT-880 or HD 650?

 I have the Supermini and it can drive my HD 650 but it does not have the _authority_ to deliver any "slam". I've tried the Supermini with my Darth Beyers and it really can't do much for them..not like my Porta Corda, Micro Amp or AE-2. 

 When I think of what makes a great portable amp I include its ability to drive these not-so-efficient cans...I think this is why the Hornet for example is so popular...because it delivers BIG amp performance.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll take this one, Sky.

 Unfortunately the supermicro is NO competition for the SR-71. It lacks the air, attention to microdetails and overall refinement! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [kiddin...]_

 


 You're just enjoying it don't you? downplaying Xin amps on a whim. This sort of thing reminds me of Andrea - you reminded me of Andrea. Eventually I have plans down the road to get myself a PRII and SR-71 and even AE-2, until then I will reserve my opinions on what sounds good - peace


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're just enjoying it don't you? downplaying Xin amps on a whim. This sort of thing reminds me of Andrea - you reminded me of Andrea. Eventually I have plans down the road to get myself a PRII and SR-71 and even AE-2, until then I will reserve my opinions on what sounds good - peace
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ouch! That was a low blow...Andrea??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nonononono! I would NEVER downplay Xin's amps, the man was a former rocket scientist, I have the utmost respect for his products... Seriously, I say these things (well most) in jest!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But truth be told, the SR-71 smokes a supermicro like a cheap cuban cigar (well, cuban cigars aren't cheap in the US since that dang embargo!).... *KIDDING*





 I wouldn't mind ordering a NEW Xin amp just to see what his grand finale is like, I seem to have develop more patience for the shipping process, so the wait shouldn't be an issue at this point.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I wouldn't mind ordering a NEW Xin amp just to see what his grand finale is like, I seem to have develop more patience for the shipping process, so the wait shouldn't be an issue at this point._

 

You sure the waiting not gonna kill you?


----------



## Morph201

Good question! Would you mind sending me yours to audition??


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question! Would you mind sending me yours to audition??_

 

HEH.....I am 3 continents away from you mate


----------



## Morph201

I'll wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How does it sound, compared to your TH??????


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HEH.....I am 3 continents away from you mate
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

are you going to do a supermicro comparison as well? If so, I'll be looking forward to that! you always write great reviews!


----------



## EFN

heh....

 ** with Etys plugged & SMIV pumping, speechless for now....... **


----------



## Morph201




----------



## productred

i'm looking forward the PCIII review!!! (again just me whining, no rushing skylab the ampman~)

 i have always been wondering what has happened to the PCIII.........you see, Jan is a nice guy and their service is excellent, that's consensus here and there. and the PCIII seems to be a more than capable contender as feedback had only been positive (that is, if it does surface) so far. but unless my senses are playing a trick on me the PCIII is one of the, if not THE, least talked about portable amp of its calibre. i myself can't wait to get one and try for myself, but some encouragement (or precaution) won't hurt.

 greatdane, or anyone else, any guess on how the PCIII fit into skylab's ranking?


----------



## kaushama

Mrarroyo's impression of Supermicro is based on a speciman before 11/4 tweaks! It is well known that Xin's top of line, SUPERMACRO, had its problems right from the beginning. First they had serious oscillation problems. Even he managed to stop SMIV oscillation, SMIV never reached the summits of supermicro. Dr. Xin didn't admit it in public. But he never went on full production mode after he announced IV, perhaps prematurely out of euporia.

 But GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT, who helped in development never openly placed SMIV's performance above that of supermicro. 

 It seems Dr. Xin has found the problem and ultimate solution in the power supply of IV amps on 4/11. But it has to be verified by user experience and opinions of GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT. 

 At last I think Dr. Xin publicly admitted, indirectly though, the problems prevailed in IV line. That may be a good sign that he has finally solved the issue.

Dr. Xin - Xin Forum, 

 "[4/11/07] I spent almost half year to perfect the IV amps. There are lots of changes inside, but these are important to users:
 It is not just the OPAMP. It took me 6 months to figure out why the Micro-IV sounded better.
 The issues were in SuperMicro-IV too, just not so noticeable compared to SuperMacro-IV and SuperMini-IV. Until 4/11, I could not found the answer."

 I think if Xin amps are to be reviewed correctly, SKYLAB should have amp specimen produced after 4/11. Probably with OPAMP combinations tested by HIGHFLIGHT recently!!!


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mrarroyo's impression of Supermicro is based on a speciman before 11/4 tweaks! It is well known that Xin's top of line, SUPERMACRO, had its problems right from the beginning. First they had serious oscillation problems. Even he managed to stop SMIV oscillation, SMIV never reached the summits of supermicro. Dr. Xin didn't admit it in public. But he never went on full production mode after he announced IV, perhaps prematurely out of euporia.

 But GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT, who helped in development never openly placed SMIV's performance above that of supermicro. 

 It seems Dr. Xin has found the problem and ultimate solution in the power supply of IV amps on 4/11. But it has to be verified by user experience and opinions of GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT. 

 At last I think Dr. Xin publicly admitted, indirectly though, the problems prevailed in IV line. That may be a good sign that he has finally solved the issue.

Dr. Xin - Xin Forum, 

 "[4/11/07] I spent almost half year to perfect the IV amps. There are lots of changes inside, but these are important to users:
 It is not just the OPAMP. It took me 6 months to figure out why the Micro-IV sounded better.
 The issues were in SuperMicro-IV too, just not so noticeable compared to SuperMacro-IV and SuperMini-IV. Until 4/11, I could not found the answer."

 I think if Xin amps are to be reviewed correctly, SKYLAB should have amp specimen produced after 4/11. Probably with OPAMP combinations tested by HIGHFLIGHT recently!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I am actually on the edge of bursting.....received my SuperMicro IV (04/11 batch) this morning around 11AM and now it's 5.29PM......this thing out of the box doesn't seem need burning in.....I am shaken...trully shaken because the size defied all logic, yes as anticipated I fear the worse.....that my 650Hours Tomahawk is getting trounced ever so mildly......

 OK THAT'S IT!!!! I will SHUT UP for now - wait for my full impressions.....


----------



## yome6969

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ugotamesij* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that Dave. I have heard good things about the Go-Vibe V5 but the V6 is a bit smaller and I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for extra portability. I can't seem to find any real in-depth reviews/comparisons of the V6 around here though..._

 

Let's read these threads.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232646
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...hlight=Go-Vibe
 FEN used IEM.
 ameh♪ ﾍ(ﾟ◇､ﾟ)ﾉ~ﾍ(ﾟ◇､ﾟ)ﾉ~ amemah♪


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *productred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_greatdane, or anyone else, any guess on how the PCIII fit into skylab's ranking?_

 

Well, the cynic in me says it will land exactly where the Headphonia used to be


----------



## Nattydraddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me personally, the portable amps I've heard recently do not compare to the Gilmore Lite v2, with or without the DPS. My experience with portables so far leads me to believe that amps running solely on AC power have a significant advantage over battery-powered amps and help add grounding in the bass, control over layer separation, and overall blackness to the background, which can be big differences if you have equipment high-end enough to render those differences._

 

Protable headphone amps may not be able to deliver enough current to reproduce loud and deep bass sounds.

 Do you also think they are to slow to deliver adequate current for control over layer seperation?

 And does this only count for protable headphone amps, that run on batteries? ´Cause you can also use ( for example) a Go-Vibe V6M with a 24 volt power supply.


----------



## TerryZ

I agree with skylab on the LDM+, the background noise is horrible for a IEM, however, you can ask the producer (Dr. Yang) to modify to a lower gain, which should reduce the noise.

 Also I would like to say both LDM+ and STORM are overpriced in USA compared with their local price. I got my LDM+ for no more than $35 equivalently in China and I know the STORMs are priced at roughly $170. Unfortunately they lost their price advantages( either by posting charge&taxes or excess profit strategy) in USA and make them hard to compete with local amps. I hope this info won't hurt the interests of those people who live on selling those Chinese amps...


----------



## Skylab

I agree on the prices here in the US - wish they were like in China!


----------



## TerryZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My problem was actually with the LD II+ Tube amp - it hummed badly and was noisy._

 

My reply was based on my personal experience and your statement of the LDM+ being the noisiest amp.

 BTW, I have my LD II+ Tube amp for almost one year and it works fine with K501 and AP2496 soundcard. The only flaw is the blast when it is turned on from cold state, and I think the sound level of the blast can easily destroy IEMs and some small low-impedance headphone. Everytime I have to unplug the headphone before turning on the amp and then plug it back...I don't know if it's just individual flaw or every owner has this issue..


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree on the prices here in the US - wish they were like in China!_

 

I agree with this. After living in China for the past year and a half I often saw prices that were half or more of the prices here. Hard drives are the same price as in the US, which is hard to figure and that makes them very expensive there but someone is grabbing for a very hefty profit with some of these amps. The Xtra X-1 was about 40 dollars in China after shipping, which is much less than in the US.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nattydraddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Protable headphone amps may not be able to deliver enough current to reproduce loud and deep bass sounds.

 Do you also think they are to slow to deliver adequate current for control over layer seperation?

 And does this only count for protable headphone amps, that run on batteries? ´Cause you can also use ( for example) a Go-Vibe V6M with a 24 volt power supply._

 

I don't know enough about current delivery (or other technical aspects) to be able to make any statements about possible relation to layer separation. And yes I was referring to only battery-powered portables. I haven't heard the V6M but I have heard a Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed w/ LT1210 & Black Gate caps that I used with AC adapter only. I can't say if using only the AC adapter affected anything, I don't have any 9V batteries and didn't request any when I got it on loan from Romanee.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch! That was a low blow...Andrea??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nonononono! I would NEVER downplay Xin's amps, the man was a former rocket scientist, I have the utmost respect for his products... Seriously, I say these things (well most) in jest!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But truth be told, the SR-71 smokes a supermicro like a cheap cuban cigar (well, cuban cigars aren't cheap in the US since that dang embargo!).... *KIDDING*





 I wouldn't mind ordering a NEW Xin amp just to see what his grand finale is like, I seem to have develop more patience for the shipping process, so the wait shouldn't be an issue at this point._

 

Well, this is just great! We will have to call you AndreaIT from now on. IT= in training


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mrarroyo's impression of Supermicro is based on a speciman before 11/4 tweaks! It is well known that Xin's top of line, SUPERMACRO, had its problems right from the beginning. First they had serious oscillation problems. Even he managed to stop SMIV oscillation, SMIV never reached the summits of supermicro. Dr. Xin didn't admit it in public. But he never went on full production mode after he announced IV, perhaps prematurely out of euporia.

 But GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT, who helped in development never openly placed SMIV's performance above that of supermicro. 

 It seems Dr. Xin has found the problem and ultimate solution in the power supply of IV amps on 4/11. But it has to be verified by user experience and opinions of GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT. 

 At last I think Dr. Xin publicly admitted, indirectly though, the problems prevailed in IV line. That may be a good sign that he has finally solved the issue.

Dr. Xin - Xin Forum, 

 "[4/11/07] I spent almost half year to perfect the IV amps. There are lots of changes inside, but these are important to users:
 It is not just the OPAMP. It took me 6 months to figure out why the Micro-IV sounded better.
 The issues were in SuperMicro-IV too, just not so noticeable compared to SuperMacro-IV and SuperMini-IV. Until 4/11, I could not found the answer."

 I think if Xin amps are to be reviewed correctly, SKYLAB should have amp specimen produced after 4/11. Probably with OPAMP combinations tested by HIGHFLIGHT recently!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, Vorlon1 has a much newer (2007) Supermicro IV and it kicks ass.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, this is just great! We will have to call you AndreaIT from now on. IT= in training 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

















_

 

Noooooooooo! I'm not trying to be banned!!


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, Vorlon1 has a much newer (2007) Supermicro IV and it kicks ass._

 

Coulda define .... 'kick ass'??


----------



## productred

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the cynic in me says it will land exactly where the Headphonia used to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 I very much believe that's the case............still, the Headphonia is between a Tomahawk and a XM4 when it last appear in your ranking but you see, there'r SO MUCH middle ground in between now..............dunno how it'd fare against, say, a SMIV. but still, your reply is making me happy (with my wallet fuming)


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am actually on the edge of bursting.....received my SuperMicro IV (04/11 batch) this morning around 11AM and now it's 5.29PM......this thing out of the box doesn't seem need burning in.....I am shaken...trully shaken because the size defied all logic, yes as anticipated I fear the worse.....that my 650Hours Tomahawk is getting trounced ever so mildly......_

 

could you clarify this as there are a couple of different conventions. when you say 04/11 batch what exactly do you mean (this is a date, no?) do you mean amps manufactured on or after april 11, 2006 or 2007, or november 4, 2006? in what ways is the supermicro affected? (as opposed to the mini or macro (when folks use the 'sm' abbreviation it's often unclear to me which amp they're referring to.)) are there updates available to recent micro amps and if so what's the difference between recent micro4s and ones that were produced a few months ago?


----------



## nfusion770

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could you clarify this as there are a couple of different conventions. when you say 04/11 batch what exactly do you mean (this is a date, no?) do you mean amps manufactured on or after april 11, 2006 or 2007, or november 4, 2006? in what ways is the supermicro affected? (as opposed to the mini or macro (when folks use the 'sm' abbreviation it's often unclear to me which amp they're referring to.)) are there updates available to recent micro amps and if so what's the difference between recent micro4s and ones that were produced a few months ago?_

 

This confuses me too. At the time I sent the micro to Skylab I thought the only update for it was from last fall and deemed relatively insignificant. It seems most of the updates were for the macro and, less so, the mini. I have heard mention of the 4/11 update, but its difficult to imagine anyone has much experience with such a recent update. A little clarification would be helpful.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nfusion770* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This confuses me too. At the time I sent the micro to Skylab I thought the only update for it was from last fall and deemed relatively insignificant. It seems most of the updates were for the macro and, less so, the mini. I have heard mention of the 4/11 update, but its difficult to imagine anyone has much experience with such a recent update. A little clarification would be helpful._

 

If my memory serves me correctly, the 4/11 update is for the macro's and mini's. Supposedly they're SQ matches the micro in quality now.
 That's if I remember correctly...I'm sure one of the south beach boyz will chime in.


----------



## nfusion770

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If my memory serves me correctly, the 4/11 update is for the macro's and mini's. Supposedly they're SQ matches the micro in quality now.
 That's if I remember correctly...I'm sure one of the south beach boyz will chime in._

 

I thought I saw a post questioning whether the micro was a 4/11 version. Maybe I just inferred micro from the mention of a 4/11 Xin.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nfusion770* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought I saw a post questioning whether the micro was a 4/11 version. Maybe I just inferred micro from the mention of a 4/11 Xin._

 

Perhaps, but like I said, I could be wrong.


----------



## aluren

the micro also had a slight update. so everything post 4/11 is new.


----------



## kaushama

Its 2007/04/11!!! If you have followed Xin's forum closely, Which I have been doing to see the development as well as new OPAMP combos, You would have noticed that Dr. XIN openly admits the problem prevailed in Version IV amps even in Supermicro, though less noticeable than other two amps. He seems to have found the solution finally in above date, and had been giving indications of a solution within preceding few weeks. The 4/11 came to this forum due to my posting of following. 

  Quote:


 Mrarroyo's impression of Supermicro is based on a speciman before 11/4 tweaks! It is well known that Xin's top of line, SUPERMACRO, had its problems right from the beginning. First they had serious oscillation problems. Even he managed to stop SMIV oscillation, SMIV never reached the summits of supermicro. Dr. Xin didn't admit it in public. But he never went on full production mode after he announced IV, perhaps prematurely out of euporia.

 But GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT, who helped in development never openly placed SMIV's performance above that of supermicro. 

 It seems Dr. Xin has found the problem and ultimate solution in the power supply of IV amps on 4/11. But it has to be verified by user experience and opinions of GOTO2003 and HIGHFLIGHT. 

 At last I think Dr. Xin publicly admitted, indirectly though, the problems prevailed in IV line. That may be a good sign that he has finally solved the issue.

 Dr. Xin - Xin Forum, 

 "[4/11/07] I spent almost half year to perfect the IV amps. There are lots of changes inside, but these are important to users:
 It is not just the OPAMP. It took me 6 months to figure out why the Micro-IV sounded better.
 The issues were in SuperMicro-IV too, just not so noticeable compared to SuperMacro-IV and SuperMini-IV. Until 4/11, I could not found the answer."

 I think if Xin amps are to be reviewed correctly, SKYLAB should have amp specimen produced after 4/11. Probably with OPAMP combinations tested by HIGHFLIGHT recently!!! 
 

As I saw skylab's comments, I thought the review should be based on an amp made after this crucial update.


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its 2007/04/11!!! If you have followed Xin's forum closely, Which I have been doing to see the development as well as new OPAMP combos, You would have noticed that Dr. XIN openly admits the problem prevailed in Version IV amps even in Supermicro, though less noticeable than other two amps. He seems to have found the solution finally in above date, and had been giving indications of a solution within preceding few weeks. The 4/11 came to this forum due to my posting of following. 



 As I saw skylab's comments, I thought the review should be based on an amp made after this crucial update._

 

I'll be sending my supermacro LE to skylab after I get the full updates, so dont worry kaushama.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me personally, the portable amps I've heard recently do not compare to the Gilmore Lite v2, with or without the DPS. My experience with portables so far leads me to believe that amps running solely on AC power have a significant advantage over battery-powered amps and help add grounding in the bass, control over layer separation, and overall blackness to the background, which can be big differences if you have equipment high-end enough to render those differences._

 

Indeed. There are even more characteristics that blossom with quality "home" (AC-powered) amps, which I don't need to elaborate here — but I'll add to your note that AC-power alone isn't enough of a criterion, but rather it must be a quality amp as well. There are some AC-only-powered amps that are equalled or bettered by some of the best portables, but as a rule there are many home (non-portable) amps that produce sound of significantly better quality than the best portables.

 That, surprisingly, does need to be conveyed to the newer members of the Head-Fi hobby so that they will not be mislead or ultimately disappointed if they compare the best portables to better home amps and are surprised that they can hear much better sound quality.

 Also, portables must of necessity use portable sources which can, of course, be dramatically bettered by high-quality sources (transports, DACs…).

 All that aside, though, this is a portables-only thread — so the only reason for our added caveats is, again, for those newcomers who have not yet experienced the wonders of the higher-end (non-portable) components — even, as you noted, at the same price points as the better portables.

 Cheers!


----------



## fkclo

On the other hand, battery powered portable amps have one obvious advantage - if well designed they have one less problem the manage - AC power noise. Many high-end "home" amps spent a lot of resources (parts and design time) to achiev the dead silent background that can be easily achieved with battery powered amps. Also, distortion tends to be less a problem with battery powered amps compares to AC powered ones.

 There is always 2 sides for a coin.

 F. Lo


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_


 As I saw skylab's comments, I thought the review should be based on an amp made after this crucial update._

 

Not possible, unless someone loans me a current one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And the constant updates are what makes reviewing Xin amps frustrating, and I found that it also made OWNING one frustrating, which is why I don't own one anymore - I *never* felt like my SuperMacro IV was "up to date".


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed. There are even more characteristics that blossom with quality "home" (AC-powered) amps, which I don't need to elaborate here — but I'll add to your note that AC-power alone isn't enough of a criterion, but rather it must be a quality amp as well. There are some AC-only-powered amps that are equalled or bettered by some of the best portables, but as a rule there are many home (non-portable) amps that produce sound of significantly better quality than the best portables.

 That, surprisingly, does need to be conveyed to the newer members of the Head-Fi hobby so that they will not be mislead or ultimately disappointed if they compare the best portables to better home amps and are surprised that they can hear much better sound quality.

 Also, portables must of necessity use portable sources which can, of course, be dramatically bettered by high-quality sources (transports, DACs…).

 All that aside, though, this is a portables-only thread — so the only reason for our added caveats is, again, for those newcomers who have not yet experienced the wonders of the higher-end (non-portable) components — even, as you noted, at the same price points as the better portables.

 Cheers!_

 

I would agree for the most part. The exception to the normal lesser quality known to be produced by portable units is that I use CD's played on a portable with an optical out to a dac (Monica II) that has been compared to some very fine home dacs (which it was meant to be but I made it portable). The sound quality it exceptional and the only limiting factor is the amp or the headphones. With the SuperMacro LE and my current opamp configuration I get home sound on the move but I realize not everyone is going to have this setup but it is very possible to do. I state this because I feel there are some portables getting closer to some of the good home amps but as you state, it requires everything up stream to be of the right quality.


----------



## kaushama

Quote:


 I'll be sending my supermacro LE to skylab after I get the full updates, so dont worry kaushama. 
 

I am not worried at all. I just wanted tell the latest happenings in Xin's front. I followed it up, as I wanTed to determine the proper date for sending my SMIV back for updates. I asked Dr. Xin several times to send it back. But since there was no definite answer, I guessed there are still problems with his design. So I waited.
 Hope he had got it corrected this time.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not possible, unless someone loans me a current one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And the constant updates are what makes reviewing Xin amps frustrating, and I found that it also made OWNING one frustrating, which is why I don't own one anymore - I *never* felt like my SuperMacro IV was "up to date"._

 

I just might be able to do that for you Skylab
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Well, as soon as I get it, I will.


----------



## nfusion770

So I guess this 4/11 update is even bigger than Xins last final big fix? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess it would probably be best to wait for some reviews to come in before I go shopping for a Ray Samuels backup amp.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would agree for the most part. The exception to the normal lesser quality known to be produced by portable units is that I use CD's played on a portable with an optical out to a dac (Monica II) that has been compared to some very fine home dacs (which it was meant to be but I made it portable). The sound quality it exceptional and the only limiting factor is the amp or the headphones. With the SuperMacro LE and my current opamp configuration I get home sound on the move but I realize not everyone is going to have this setup but it is very possible to do. I state this because I feel there are some portables getting closer to some of the good home amps but as you state, it requires everything up stream to be of the right quality._

 

Yes indeed. 

 Excellent sources — good portable sources included — can make a significant improvement in the performance of the best portable amps. I've tried my Hornet, as an example, sourced by an X-Ray CD Transport and Muse DAC (large and very "neutral/transmissive") and the sound quality improvement over various iPods was astounding. Similarly, Ray Samuels presents his small amps via the Meridian G08 for that very reason.

 The Hornet (just as my reference example) sounds close to many home amps when sourced by high-quality transport and DAC. Source quality is a very important point.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aluren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the micro also had a slight update. so everything post 4/11 is new._

 

Yes, even the micro was tweaked. However according to Dr. Xin the improvement is not as big as in the Supermini or the Supermacro.


----------



## jgonino

I Wonder why this thread is not "stuck" yet?


----------



## Dan the man

What about the Grado RA1. Not really a portable amp but in the same price range. Has anyone heard this one with AKG 701


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan the man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the Grado RA1. Not really a portable amp but in the same price range. Has anyone heard this one with AKG 701_

 

Not with the 701, but with the 501 and the DT880. I keep going back to this for its uninvolved very transparent reproduction. Whether it be a Somy DEJ 2000 or an iMod, I just like its simple presentation.


----------



## mirage

so, when's the Millet Tube Portable making her entrance? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For anyone interested though, Mrarroyo and Vorlon1 have some interesting impressions 
 over in the millet tube portable thread here post #183 http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...221782&page=10


----------



## Skylab

The Millet Tube Portable interests me to be sure, but it's expensive, and so I am not going to buy one, especially after Mrarroyo has already commented on it, and since he had some small problems with his.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks to GreatDane, today updated with the Meier PCIII:

*> Meier Audio Porta Corda III *

 http://www.meier-audio.de

 GreatDane was nice enough to lend me a Meier Porta Corda Mk III to review. The PCIII is large-ish for a portable amp – longer than a SR71, but a little shorter, and since it’s in a plastic case, it’s lighter than the SR71. I am not a fan of the PCIII’s industrial design – it isn’t going to win any beauty contests, that’s for sure. But I am not reviewing these things for looks, so how is the sound? In a word, great. It’s definitely in that top tier of amps that make me go “WOW this sounds good!”. 

*Build Quality:* B+: Here again, the amp is functional and the case is solid enough, but it’s not pretty at all. Connectors are all above-average solid, though, so it gets some points back for that.
*Treble:* A: Treble is amazingly clear. Smooth, open, liquid, and detailed ZERO grain. Highly transparent, and neutral. Shares this with its big brother home amps. Great air. Maybe lacks that very last bit of extension that the Larocco amp has, though.
*Midrange:* A: Here again, very open, smooth grain-free, transparent sound. Talk about an open window to the music! This is the kind of midrange performance that we live for.
*Bass: * A-: Excels in pitch, attach, and definition. It doesn’t have quite the punch of an RSA amp in this regard, however.
*Neutrality:* A-: Neutral except for the very slight lack of bass weight. 
*Soundstaging:* A-: soundstage width is excellent, depth is just short of the best. Image specificity is very good. A couple of times I actually turned my head to “listen” for a sound!
*Transparency:* A: This is a strong suit to be sure – Meier amps are jaw-droppingly transparent. 

 So the PCIII is not just a great amp, but with it’s $160USD price, it’s an incredible value, and it has to be that it and the Xin SuperMicroIV are the two best VALUE portable amps I have ever heard. I cannot imagine better sound for less. If you can deal with the pedestrian looks, this amp rewards with way above price-class sound.


----------



## procreate

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PCIII is large-ish for a portable amp – longer than a SR71, but a little shorter_

 

So which is it, already?


----------



## apnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *procreate* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So which is it, already? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Um yeah 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , you confused me too Skylab.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...longer than a SR71_

 

In length.

  Quote:


 but a little shorter...than the SR71 
 

In height.


----------



## Skylab

Yep, Nick got it


----------



## Dan the man

But how does the Grado RA1 fit into the SQ of the other 19 or so amps listed on this thread???


----------



## GreatDane

Skylab, did you try out the USB DAC? 

 OH YES! using the DAC is a true delight, and possibly even better than a good quality analog source...power it with a 30 volt wall wart and POW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought the amp was a good value at what I paid but I believe Dr. Meier has lowered the price...correct?

 Thanks for the review. Great job.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, did you try out the USB DAC? 

 OH YES! using the DAC is a true delight, and possibly even better than a good quality analog source...power it with a 30 volt wall wart and POW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought the amp was a good value at what I paid but I believe Dr. Meier has lowered the price...correct?

 Thanks for the review. Great job._

 

I did not try the USB DAC, since it wasn't really relevant to the review, and I have heard Meier's excellent USB DACs in other products. And yeah, Meier lowered the price of thr PCIII, so it's a heck of a deal currently.

 Thanks again for the loan!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan the man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But how does the Grado RA1 fit into the SQ of the other 19 or so amps listed on this thread???_

 

I cannot help, never heard one.


----------



## goodsound

skylab, any particular reason why the new go-vibe V6 not in the review yet ? I mean I have one I can loan you for a few days if you're interested, and if thats the only reason why.
 Mine's the AD8620 version. Would be nice if someone can send you the AD8397 version as well.


----------



## Mandrake

I wish the Porta Corda III USB was rechargeable.... Any hint that this may be in the wings? Great review....

 Thanks!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mandrake* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish the Porta Corda III USB was rechargeable.... Any hint that this may be in the wings? Great review....

 Thanks!_

 

That would be nice for a future version(internal rechargeable lithium). The 9 volt battery is easy to change. It has a slide-off plastic cover with no screws. Battery life is pretty good from my memory (35 hour+/-).

 One thing that was not mentioned in the review is the excellent crossfeed.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *goodsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, any particular reason why the new go-vibe V6 not in the review yet ? I mean I have one I can loan you for a few days if you're interested, and if thats the only reason why.
 Mine's the AD8620 version. Would be nice if someone can send you the AD8397 version as well._

 

Yes, the only reason the GV6 is not in the review is I don't own one and I am not buying any more portable amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am happy to review ones that either head-fiers or the manufacturers want me to listen to. But I own 5 portable amps and that is MORE than enough.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That would be nice for a future version(internal rechargeable lithium). The 9 volt battery is easy to change. It has a slide-off plastic cover with no screws. Battery life is pretty good from my memory (35 hour+/-).

 One thing that was not mentioned in the review is the excellent crossfeed._

 

I should have mentioned the excellent crossfeed, yes. Meier's crossfeed is the best implementation of it there is, and it's one major reason that all of my home amps are Meier amps.

 The reason I sold my original Meier PCIII was the lack of rechargeable batteries. That is also one reason that my main portable amp is the Larocco PRII and not the SR71. I also use the RSA Tomahawk a lot portably, but it bareley even uses its batteries!


----------



## blessingx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 6. Xin SuperMicro IV
 7. Headamp AE-1
 8. Portaphile V2^2
 9. Storm B-4
 10. iBasso P-1
 11. C&C XO
 12. Practical Devices XM4
 13. Xtra X-1 Pro
 14. Xenos 0HA-REP
 15. iBasso T1
 16. Xtra X-1
 17. C&C Box V2
 18. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful._

 

Funny, testing with Etys and Senns (and Lavry DA10 and iPod), I've found your next to last amp to outperform overall your number two (and dramatically in clarity). Guess it really is different opinions.


----------



## otakukage

thanks for the great article


----------



## 3X0

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blessingx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny, testing with Etys and Senns (and Lavry DA10 and iPod), I've found your next to last amp to outperform overall your number two (and dramatically in clarity). Guess it really is different opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

FWIW, I was myself slightly bemused as to why the C&C Box V2 was rated a step below the Go-Vibe V5 earlier. IMO the difference is clear and it's no contest; the C&C Box flat-out beats the Go-Vibe V5 in every conceivable aspect. Again, just throwing in my different opinion as well which seems to agree, if to a less degree, to your experience.

 Also the PCIII sounds honkin' big based on the relative comparisons! I never would have guessed based on the pictures alone.


----------



## Skylab

My biggest beef with the C&C box is I felt it wasn't neutral, and didn't find it to be very transparent. I value those things highly in amps, but for some, they may be much lower priorities compared to other things. The C&C has a distinct "sound" that, as I said in my review, many may find attractive, and if so, godspeed!

 I am glad that people post different opinions here - that is what a place like head-fi is all about.


----------



## blessingx

And of course different system synergy (our phones used have quite different pluses/disadvantages). Also the signature shaping adjustments of some of the amps weren't used. My #17s SF switch is never off, which makes it preferable to the #2 (which is an amp I love and a standard for my reviews, but I'd never call it transparent). Previous threads though indicate we have quite different interpretation - if not in theory, then in practice - of that term. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before I get too critical, I want to say thanks Skylab for comparing so many amps. From reviewing elsewhere, I can only imagine how much time this has taken. Seriously, your comments are much appreciated. I just wanted to point out to new portable amp buyers, there's dissent here and in my case it's not subtle. So much is system matching though (with a laid-back source like the iPod, I'd want to 'wake up' the laid-back HD600/HD650, but 'soften'/'control' the treble-focused DT880/SA5000, etc.).


----------



## oicdn

I need synergy with UM2's and an iMod...oh, it needs punch you in the face impact too. I'm hard pressed to find it, but I'm thinking that Millet tube is my ticket (I want warm, tubey, vinyl punchy sound)...I just can't afford to drop $460 to test the waters, lol.


----------



## procreate

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need synergy with UM2's and an iMod...oh, it needs punch you in the face impact too. I'm hard pressed to find it, but I'm thinking that Millet tube is my ticket (I want warm, tubey, vinyl punchy sound)...I just can't afford to drop $460 to test the waters, lol._

 

Well, you're in FL and so is Mrarroyo …


----------



## Dan the man

How do these solid state portable amps sound in comparison to AC powered tube amps like Bada PH-12, Woo Audio w6 or the DOGE 6210 EL84 Headphone Amplifiers?


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dan the man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do these solid state portable amps sound in comparison to AC powered tube amps like Bada PH-12, Woo Audio w6 or the DOGE 6210 EL84 Headphone Amplifiers?_

 

I have a Practical Devices XM3 and a Rockhopper Pimeta. I recently spent an evening playing with my toys and comparing these two amps with my DarkVoice 336 using my K701s.

 I used vinyl, SACD and CD sources with classical music or acoustic recordings that seemed to be well recorded. I don't see the point in using electronic music, such as rock, for such an exercise because there is no way of knowing what the source was meant to sound like, whereas we all have an idea of what a violin or piano or acoustic guitar should sound like.

 I couldn't reliably tell the difference between the Pimeta and the XM3 (these were battery-driven). The DarkVoice sounded more powerful, thick and full, but veiled. I preferred the SS amps.

 I think I'm quite sensitive to veiling at the moment because I am really pleased with my loudspeaker system at the moment, as the last change I made seemed to 'blow away the veil', and it is less veiled than my headphones.

 I enjoyed the slight layering and separation of instruments with the SS amps, but didn't hear that with the DV. This was with a Genrad VT-231 in the DV. Several on these forums have commented that soundstaging is not a strong suit of the DV.

 This experience left me thinking that I need a really good SS amp, as I do like the transparency and separation of instruments that I hear with the SS amps.

 I have since changed the Genrad for a Sylvania VT-231, and I think the sound of the DV is less veiled, giving similar separation of instruments to the SS amps while retaining the power and fullness of the DV, but I need to spend more time making comparisons, and I have other valves to try.

 The Rockhopper Pimeta has no input for a power supply, whereas the XM3 can take a PSU. It would be nice with the XM3 (or XM4, I suppose) if there was some indication of when it was running from a PSU as opposed to its battery. I have two cheap PSUs, and one has a shorter connector, and I don't think it connects. It would be nice to absolutely know whether the XM3 was running from battery or PSU.

 Skylab, in his review of portable amps, always gave a better score to amps with metal cases. I have an iRiver H120, which has a metal case, and it is much more relaxing holding it against the Pimeta, which has a plastic case, than against the XM3, which has a metal case, because I hear clicks and electronic sounds when I hold the XM3 against the iRiver.

 I have a few recordings that are maybe from early in the history of stereo recording and are 'all left or right' (an example is Bill Evans' Complete Village Vanguard Recordings), and for me these are unlistenable without crossfeed, which the XM3 has. Otherwise, the Pimeta is more relaxing to use because I don't need to worry about connecting a PSU (I can't) and there are no glytches when I wiggle connectors or let it touch my iRiver. This is not a major problem with the XM3, but I don't think the XM3's construction is bullet-proof pocketable as the Pimeta is. The XM3 is better when placed on a surface like a desk amp, rather than being handled and fiddled with while listening to music.

 I am still wondering whether I should look for a good SS amp, and I am thinking about the GS-1, the Opera, a Beta22, a Dynahi, an M3 or a Rudistor.

 Edit: I know this is not a DarkVoice thread. This evening I swapped between the Gen-Rad and Sylvania VT-231s and confirmed my impression that with the Sylvania the DV has pretty good soundstaging. The SS amps my still have a slight edge in transparency, but the DV has an extra 'fullness' and warmth, and good soundstaging, although I think the SS amps are more accurate, so I guess the difference between them is a matter of personal preference. I could live with either.


----------



## souperman

Skylab will you be reviewing the new Headphonia that comes out with Bass Boost?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blessingx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And of course different system synergy (our phones used have quite different pluses/disadvantages). Also the signature shaping adjustments of some of the amps weren't used. My #17s SF switch is never off, which makes it preferable to the #2 (which is an amp I love and a standard for my reviews, but I'd never call it transparent). Previous threads though indicate we have quite different interpretation - if not in theory, then in practice - of that term. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before I get too critical, I want to say thanks Skylab for comparing so many amps. From reviewing elsewhere, I can only imagine how much time this has taken. Seriously, your comments are much appreciated. I just wanted to point out to new portable amp buyers, there's dissent here and in my case it's not subtle. So much is system matching though (with a laid-back source like the iPod, I'd want to 'wake up' the laid-back HD600/HD650, but 'soften'/'control' the treble-focused DT880/SA5000, etc.)._

 

Thanks for the kind words. I was actually discussing this yesterday with Gilbert Yeung of Blue Circle Audio. We all hear differently, and we all have a different idea of what an ideal sound is. My concept of transparency likely differs from other people's, but I have explained it. For me, transparency is a cleanliness of sound - certainly obvious thing like lack of noise, grain, fuzz, hum, and the like, but also that less tangible "feeling" that there is as little as possible between the recording and me. For my ears, based on that definition, the RSA amp scores high, and the C&C Box, not so much. 

 NO ONE should use my review as anything other than a starting point. These are my opinions and nothing more, and other people will clearly differ. I have had the good fortune to listen to almost 30 portable amps, and almost 20 home amps, over the years, but all that means is I know what sounds good to ME. Your mileage can and probably will differ to some degree.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *procreate* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, you're in FL and so is Mrarroyo … 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well we are both considering attending the 5/6 Mini Meet in Tampa. I would take both an iModded 60 Gb iPod Photo and the Millet/SR71.


----------



## EFN

DennyL:

 I believe you the feature you seek can be had witn Xin amps.

 Very often on warm sounding rig, analytical precision is compromised. But my SuperMicro-IV which is very tubelike for an SS, offers well defined separation with very good distance between insruments. And that depth also helps to project mind boggling soundstage - the WIDEST I have ever heard thru my ER-4S and heavily modded KSC-75. For reference, I may not listen to classical but I do have Nick Cave, Morrissey and The Smiths - those records have healthy mix of multi guitars, piano, strong vocals etc. The part that I love the most is how audible/transparent SuperMicro-IV present guitar effects. I can almost see (hear actually) when the guitar pick touches the string and the effect/decays when it's done - trully breathtaking. Similarly piano notes sounded just right with proper decays and tonality, just as you would expect when listening to live piano sessions.

 While I have all this surgical precision preserved, I also get very intimate imaging and presentation - one of SuperMicro-IV strongest virtues, yet again I have never experienced this level of intimacy before, not even from my now gone RSA Tomahawk. Go-Vibe V6 8620/8610 was close with this regard but due to rather light bass presence, it is not tube like at all - but still intimate.

 Like MrArroyo and Vorlon, I place SuperMicro-IV on the No.1 spot without the slightest doubt. What SuperMicro-IV offers is VERY hard to beat. But yet again, synergy factor governs everything and I have never like the way Senn HD series sounded thru my SuperMicro-IV. To me, Senns need very aggressive amp to sound alive.


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DennyL:

 I believe you the feature you seek can be had witn Xin amps.

 Very often on warm sounding rig, analytical precision is compromised. But my SuperMicro-IV which is very tubelike for an SS, offers well defined separation with very good distance between insruments. And that depth also helps to project mind boggling soundstage - the WIDEST I have ever heard thru my ER-4S and heavily modded KSC-75. For reference, I may not listen to classical but I do have Nick Cave, Morrissey and The Smiths - those records have healthy mix of multi guitars, piano, strong vocals etc. The part that I love the most is how audible/transparent SuperMicro-IV present guitar effects. I can almost see (hear actually) when the guitar pick touches the string and the effect/decays when it's done - trully breathtaking. Similarly piano notes sounded just right with proper decays and tonality, just as you would expect when listening to live piano sessions.

 While I have all this surgical precision preserved, I also get very intimate imaging and presentation - one of SuperMicro-IV strongest virtues, yet again I have never experienced this level of intimacy before, not even from my now gone RSA Tomahawk. Go-Vibe V6 8620/8610 was close with this regard but due to rather light bass presence, it is not tube like at all - but still intimate.

 Like MrArroyo and Vorlon, I place SuperMicro-IV on the No.1 spot without the slightest doubt. What SuperMicro-IV offers is VERY hard to beat. But yet again, synergy factor governs everything and I have never like the way Senn HD series sounded thru my SuperMicro-IV. To me, Senns need very aggressive amp to sound alive._

 

Thank you for that, EFN. I am quite tempted by a SuperMicro IV. I guess it's the problems associated with buying one that put me off. The other portable I'm very tempted by is the Ray Samuels SR-71.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for that, EFN. I am quite tempted by a SuperMicro IV. I guess it's the problems associated with buying one that put me off. The other portable I'm very tempted by is the Ray Samuels SR-71._

 

You could probably store the Supermicro IV in the battery compartmen of the SR-71. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Actually I have heard both and although I prefer the Supermicro IV I have also purchased an SR-71. IMO the SR-71 has a rare cobination of attributes that make it as desirable as the Supermicro IV. Even though they do not sound alike.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could probably store the Supermicro IV in the battery compartmen of the SR-71. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually I have heard both and although I prefer the Supermicro IV I have also purchased an SR-71. IMO the SR-71 has a rare cobination of attributes that make it as desirable as the Supermicro IV. Even though they do not sound alike._

 

Yep I agree with you mate. If I don't have SMIV in my possession, SR-71 is the one that I dearly want to own. SR-71 has that proven track record to synergize superbly with ER-4S as well.

 If I am going to buy another amp, I will be torn between SuperMarco-LE, SR-71, AE-2 and PRIIMK2 - TOUGH choices eh...


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I am going to buy another amp, I will be torn between SuperMarco-LE, SR-71, AE-2 and PRIIMK2 - TOUGH choices eh...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

That's our problem; we are spoilt for choice. If there was just one portable amp we could all buy it and get on with our lives! 

 Yes, I'd forgotten, the AE-2 is starting to look tempting.....


----------



## cyberspyder

Skylab, thanks for an AWESOME read! I'm deciding between these two amps (both of which are on your list, and ranked within the top 5):

 -Xenos 1HA-EPC (the enhanced config, NOT the regular one)
 -Emmeline The Hornet "M"

 Which will give me the best performance on a pair of DT770 Pros hooked up to my computer? Does the Hornet and the Xenos sound similar (or is one better than the other?)? The amp will be used 80% home/20% mobile. battery life isn't an issue. However, I need an amp that has two sources of power (wall socket AND batteries). Price limit is no more than $350.

 Brendan


----------



## donunus

I know this is a ranking of portable amps but just to get a perspective on things, where would a headfive be against these amps? would it sound better than all of them?


----------



## Skylab

I think the DT770/80 and Hornet M are the better match, given the sonic traits of each.


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the DT770/80 and Hornet M are the better match, given the sonic traits of each._

 

Alright, thanks.

 Brendan


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep I agree with you mate. ...If I am going to buy another amp, I will be torn between SuperMarco-LE, SR-71, AE-2 and PRIIMK2 - TOUGH choices eh...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Buy all!


----------



## Killercrush

Why don't you consider the TTVJ Millet Hybrid EFN ? It should mate well with your Ety's I guess...


----------



## wakeride74

Skylab - Have you heard the AE-2 yet? Out of all the portable amps I'd not heard yet at the meet the AE-2 and TTVJ Millett Hybrid Amp impressed me the most. 

 I finally got my opamps for the Super Macro IV and I have to say it sounds very close to the Hornet M but after spending about an hour+ going back and forth with the AD8397x2 and listening to several reference tracks the win still goes to the Hornet IMO. It had better separation and more clarity overall. Very close but unless someone is looking for the ultimate in tweakability I don't see a valid reason for waiting 4 months.


----------



## Cankin

I've found that my Porta Corda MkIII doesn't provide enough bass(almost none) to my K701(as compared to headphone out of my sound card) 

 would I get more bass if i use 24V elpac? or is it because PC MkII is designed for IEMs so that it won't give much bass?(i found that most IEMs are good at bass)?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found that my Porta Corda MkIII doesn't provide enough bass(almost none) to my K701(as compared to headphone out of my sound card) 

 would I get more bass if i use 24V elpac? or is it because PC MkII is designed for IEMs so that it won't give much bass?(i found that most IEMs are good at bass)?_

 

I use a 30 volt adapter that I bought at Radio Shack. I use my Porta Corda MkIII-USB with my PC mostly. There is a very nice improvement with the 30 volts over the USB or 9 volt power.

 With the 30 volts it drives all of my headphones with ease- huge bass with HD 650 and Darth Beyers with electronic music.


----------



## Cankin

Can you please send me that page where I can find it? or anywhere else I can find 30VDC?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - Have you heard the AE-2 yet? Out of all the portable amps I'd not heard yet at the meet the AE-2 and TTVJ Millett Hybrid Amp impressed me the most. 
_

 

I will have an AE-2 on loan from another head-fier by the weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found that my Porta Corda MkIII doesn't provide enough bass(almost none) to my K701(as compared to headphone out of my sound card) 

 would I get more bass if i use 24V elpac? or is it because PC MkII is designed for IEMs so that it won't give much bass?(i found that most IEMs are good at bass)?_

 

The PCIII is lean in the bass if you use crossfeed. Are you using it? Try it without. My comparison was without crossfeed since none of the other amps had it.


----------



## Cankin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PCIII is lean in the bass if you use crossfeed. Are you using it? Try it without. My comparison was without crossfeed since none of the other amps had it._

 

i tried both, probably because i'm using k701 which is lean in bass too


----------



## itobito

there is a new Headphonia amp out. Im realy excited...


----------



## Morph201

Why are you so excited?


----------



## souperman

why not? the headphonia looks pretty good...it's the new one too...


----------



## Morph201

I mean, why in the sense that it's a portable amp.. what is it going to do that's so radically different than an RSA, Meier, or Xin amp? Aside from the fact that it's a new offering, what does it bring to the table that other amps haven't already? I'm not trying to downplay anyone's excitement, just wondering "What's the reason behind the excitement"?


----------



## tnmike1

Morph: only reason I can see for the excitement is that, according to the site, it can be used as a DAC as well as a portable. Plug into that USB port on the front, and it'll play out of your computer. But doesn't Headroom have something that does that too??? For abut $149??

 Other than that, don't know


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Morph: only reason I can see for the excitement is that, according to the site, it can be used as a DAC as well as a portable. Plug into that USB port on the front, and it'll play out of your computer. But doesn't Headroom have something that does that too??? For abut $149??

 Other than that, don't know_

 

haha, yes they do... Maybe I'm just jaded....


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aside from the fact that it's a new offering..._

 

I assume you realize you just answered your own question. People can get excited for whatever reasons they want can't they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Of course Headroom offers one just like it, but it doesn't have Bass Boost or Crossfeed does it? I mean i'm not very excited for it, but i'm just saying how it is.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume you realize you just answered your own question. People can get excited for whatever reasons they want can't they? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Of course Headroom offers one just like it, but it doesn't have Bass Boost or Crossfeed does it? I mean i'm not very excited for it, but i'm just saying how it is._

 

I'm aware of that.. Just curious how certain minds work. Doesn't take much to spark excitement nowadays, huh??? I'm in the wrong business... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, bass boost and crossfeed can be two of the most *NON-USEFUL* features of an amp, since it's easy NOT to do it correctly and just colour or jackup the sound..


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you please send me that page where I can find it? or anywhere else I can find 30VDC?_

 

I'll bet that you can find a suitable AC to DC adapter for less on the net but I wanted to see how well it worked first so I bought the RS. 

 link

 When I bought it I had to choose the correct size "adaptaplug". I brought the amp with me for this, I don't remember what size it is.

 My comments about the bass being "huge" was with crossfeed engaged. I use crossfeed 95% of the time and weak bass is not a problem. It may be true though that the crossfeed kills some bass but it's not lacking either way from my experience. Also, keep in mind that I mention electronic music (Shpongle,Man With No Name,Juno Reactor,Ozric Tentacles,Infected Mushroom,etc.)


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm aware of that.. Just curious how certain minds work. Doesn't take much to spark excitement nowadays, huh??? I'm in the wrong business... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, bass boost and crossfeed can be two of the most *NON-USEFUL* features of an amp, since it's easy NOT to do it correctly and just colour or jackup the sound.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

yes but we do know that the crossfeed was very similar to meier crossfeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 but i am not sure about the new design.


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm aware of that.. Just curious how certain minds work. Doesn't take much to spark excitement nowadays, huh??? I'm in the wrong business... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, bass boost and crossfeed can be two of the most *NON-USEFUL* features of an amp, since it's easy NOT to do it correctly and just colour or jackup the sound.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It can also be two of the most USEFUL things as well. On my supermacro, I use the bass boost quite a lot depending on what song I'm listening to. Also the crossfeed is great for mono beatles!


----------



## tnmike1

I believe the Headroom unit does, indeed, offer crossfeed, but no bass boost. According to their website,that is


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jinp6301* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It can also be two of the most USEFUL things as well. On my supermacro, I use the bass boost quite a lot depending on what song I'm listening to. Also the crossfeed is great for mono beatles!_

 

I'm kinda in the RSA camp when it comes to such things. ah well... to each his own.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - Have you heard the AE-2 yet? Out of all the portable amps I'd not heard yet at the meet the AE-2 and TTVJ Millett Hybrid Amp impressed me the most. 

 I finally got my opamps for the Super Macro IV and I have to say it sounds very close to the Hornet M but after spending about an hour+ going back and forth with the AD8397x2 and listening to several reference tracks the win still goes to the Hornet IMO. It had better separation and more clarity overall. Very close but unless someone is looking for the ultimate in tweakability I don't see a valid reason for waiting 4 months._

 

I do not know if you are aware but you can use the AD797 in the Supermacro. Yes the same one use in Ray's HR-2!


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean, why in the sense that it's a portable amp.. what is it going to do that's so radically different than an RSA, Meier, or Xin amp? Aside from the fact that it's a new offering, what does it bring to the table that other amps haven't already? I'm not trying to downplay anyone's excitement, just wondering "What's the reason behind the excitement"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

If this new unit is any better than the predecessors (and it should be) I can tell you it should be a fantastic sounding unit with a built in DAC and at a very good price. I also think it looks much better than its predecesor.


----------



## mrarroyo

Listening to some old Beatle albums makes you want to have some crossfeed. Also with some cans like the Ety's a bass boost can be a nice feature if implemented correctly.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If this new unit is any better than the predecessors (and it should be) I can tell you it should be a fantastic sounding unit with a built in DAC and at a very good price. I also think it looks much better than its predecesor._

 

It uses a PCM2704 DAC? Well, it's nice as an included feature, but if I were at my pc I probably prefer an x-fi platinum...


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listening to some old Beatle albums makes you want to have some crossfeed. Also with some cans like the Ety's a bass boost can be a nice feature if implemented correctly._

 


 LOL! Yep, that's the ultimate statement.. *If implemented correctly*, larocco is one, perhaps Xin is another. Otherwise you risk making your tunes sound muuuudy.. I'm somewhat of a purist...


----------



## Skylab

The Larocco bass boost is the best implemented I have ever heard. Effects just the lower bass, and is variable.


----------



## jinp6301

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm kinda in the RSA camp when it comes to such things. ah well... to each his own.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

no you make a real vaild statement. Its just comes down to 
 make the music sound like you want it to sound like
 VS 
 what the artist wanted the music to sound like.

 Theyre both really good points to consider and I guess you just fall in to one camp or the other.


----------



## Cankin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll bet that you can find a suitable AC to DC adapter for less on the net but I wanted to see how well it worked first so I bought the RS. 

 link

 When I bought it I had to choose the correct size "adaptaplug". I brought the amp with me for this, I don't remember what size it is.

 My comments about the bass being "huge" was with crossfeed engaged. I use crossfeed 95% of the time and weak bass is not a problem. It may be true though that the crossfeed kills some bass but it's not lacking either way from my experience. Also, keep in mind that I mention electronic music (Shpongle,Man With No Name,Juno Reactor,Ozric Tentacles,Infected Mushroom,etc.)_

 

Thankyou for you input, I decided to return it and go tube...something like Darkvoice 336i or LD2++ for my k701


----------



## sorrick

Skylab, have you heard the headroom total airhead or total bithead? Has anyone heard them who has heard some of the other amp or dac/amp offerings (meier or headphonia or others)? How do they compare? Also, someone should lend Skylab their TTVJ Millett Hybrid so he can add that to the mix. I would, but I'm in Peru for the time being....


----------



## Manny Calavera

Skylab great review.What full size cans did you test the _Tomahawk_ with ? And do you think they could drive my DT250-80's.... 'ok' 

 I get the very distinct feeling that people who have tried it with full size cans like it,but for every three who say it'll drive a full size can and give very good bass,I find one who says get the Hornet.I dont have any high impedance cans,and plan on getting two sets of Shure ES 310's in June,and want a amp that is small,has excellent bass,and really good battery performance.

 On top of being able to drive IEM's and a set or two of full size cans like my AKG's and Beyers.I had an Ibasso TI,but sold it for a small profit,and want to step up in quality,so this will not be my first amp.Also,my budget is 300~USD


----------



## leeivan86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Buy all! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Haha and don't forgot the shadowy and mysterious ISA diablo.... U all should know what I mean


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Morph201* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_btw, bass boost and crossfeed can be two of the most *NON-USEFUL* features of an amp, since it's easy NOT to do it correctly and just colour or jackup the sound.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you know that the crossfeed on the Headphonia is bad, or are you just being downbeat and negative for no reason?

 I have a few recordings (all left or all right stereo) that are practically unlistenable on a headphone without crossfeed, and I am very pleased to have crossfeed.


----------



## Morph201

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know that the crossfeed on the Headphonia is bad, or are you just being downbeat and negative for no reason?

 I have a few recordings (all left or all right stereo) that are practically unlistenable on a headphone without crossfeed, and I am very pleased to have crossfeed._

 

Did you see my "criticize" the headphonia xfeed? That's the funny thing about this site, the moment someone shares a thought\opinion, it's immediately viewed as some personal attack on the owner or manufacturer. The ONLY thing I know about the headphonia xfeed (original) is that it shared a similiar topology\design to the meier amps, so by association I assume it was good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, I have xfeed on my amp, and even though it is done quite well, I don't care to use it. But that's MY personal opinion, YMMV....


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sorrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, have you heard the headroom total airhead or total bithead? Has anyone heard them who has heard some of the other amp or dac/amp offerings (meier or headphonia or others)? How do they compare? Also, someone should lend Skylab their TTVJ Millett Hybrid so he can add that to the mix. I would, but I'm in Peru for the time being...._

 

I have not heard the current versions of these, no, just the older ones from a couple years back.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Manny Calavera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab great review.What full size cans did you test the Tomahawk with ? And do you think they could drive my DT250-80's.... 'ok' 
_

 

It drives my 70 ohm Senn HD25-1's with no difficulty at all, IN LOW GAIN MODE! 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeivan86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha and don't forgot the shadowy and mysterious ISA diablo.... U all should know what I mean
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am convinced that amp will NEVER become a reality, sadly.


----------



## donunus

no one replied to my post a few pages ago. I was asking how the headfive would fit in these portable amps in terms of transparency (meaning least amount of degradation from the original signal). Would it beat all of them? I know its not a portable amp but since it is the one I have and know, I would like to know if any of these portables are a step up in sound quality. I wouldn't want to buy something that is worse in sound quality for the portability tradeoff.


----------



## Skylab

Well...

 I did a comparison, blind, of the Corda Aria and the Tomahawk, and I found that it was very close to the Aria in sound quality in most respects. The Aria has the slightly smoother treble, and I was using HD600's which limited my ability to determine the bass capability. Home amps can be taken to greater heights than portables, but at the entry level, my expreince is that a $300 porable amp and a $300 home amp can be fairly similar in sound quality. Running off batteries does have some sonic advantages, at least in theory.

 That said, I compared my Larocco PRII and my Meier Opera, and it was NO CONTEST - the Opera bettered it in every conceivable way.


----------



## Manny Calavera

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It drives my 70 ohm Senn HD25-1's with no difficulty at all, IN LOW GAIN MODE!_

 



 I am a complete idiot at the moment,could you please spell it out for me in 
 noob speak ?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Manny Calavera* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am a complete idiot at the moment,could you please spell it out for me in 
 noob speak ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






_

 

I was trying to say it will have no difficulty at all driving your DT250/80. It will be great.


----------



## Manny Calavera

Thanks Skylab


----------



## antonyfirst

Skylab, I'm looking forward to see where the Headamp AE-2 will place. Are you already listening to it?


----------



## Skylab

Actually my loan of the AE-2 hasn't been sent yet.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually my loan of the AE-2 hasn't been sent yet._

 

Will you be receiving one that has been burned in?


----------



## Skylab

I believe so, yes.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe so, yes._

 

I'm looking forward to your impressions... especially compared to the Hornet with the E500 and AH-5000.


----------



## mrarroyo

I just finished comparing (again) the SR-71, TTVJ Millet Portable, and the LaRocco PRII MkII. The first two are fully burnt in but the LaRocco only has about 192 hours (8 days).

 So far the bass in the SR-71 and the LaRocco are the tightest, with the TTVJ Millet a close second. The LaRocco has the widest soundstage, with the SR71 been the 2nd largest and the TTVJ Millet been the narrowest and most "in your face". Personally I find the highs on the LaRocco slightly better (not by much) than the SR71 and depending on the music better to much better than the TTVJ Millet.

 I will add that IMO the TTVJ Millet is not really meant to be used with IEMs. To me they sound horrible together (V-Moda and ER4P w/ and w/0 the P to S cable). However the TTVJ Millet sounds significantly better when you connect it to a full size can like the K501 or the DT990, whether this is due to impedence or my own preferences remains to be determined.

 As you have surmised my rankings (best to worst) are: LaRocco, SR71, and TTVJ Millet.

 Tomorrow I will get together with Vorlon1 and he can add/substract. Thanks.


----------



## MusicallySilent

I saw the ibasso got a very excellent review but that was the p-1... does anyone know how the t1 and t2 might compare to this atleast specs wise?


----------



## jamato8

The T2 is going to be a different sounding amp from the T1. It will have a different opamp setup and other changes, from what I have read. The case is supposed to be the same. 

 The P-1 with the LM4562 is a mind blower. I have never heard such a change. For the other opamp I am using an AD8397.


----------



## MusicallySilent

So many of those amps look so good...

 What would you reccomend for a beginner that is around 150 or so and preferablly has a rechargeable battery or ac adapter otherwise ill just get some rechargeable batteries.


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 As you have surmised my rankings (best to worst) are: LaRocco, SR71, and TTVJ Millet.

 Tomorrow I will get together with Vorlon1 and he can add/substract. Thanks._

 

Well, mrarroyo and I completely disagree on the Millett. I love how it sounds. I use it with Triple-fi's and I think it sounds fantastic; very wide and deep sound stage (wider and deeper than with the SR-71) and great bass and detail. Female vocals sound clear and natural. The tube qualities of the amp give a slight warmth and atmosphere to both jazz and classical recordings that give one the feeling of being in the room. I also like the sound with the RP-21 and the Sony MDRV6 (which is a surprisingly good sounding headphone). 

 To MusicallySilent: Look into the Porta Corda Mk III. Selling for $160 shipped form Meier Audio, and the sound quality level,while different, is close to the SR-71 and the Millet for a fraction of the the price. Not rechargeable, but the SQ really has been surprising people (myself included).


----------



## Moloko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The P-1 with the LM4562 is a mind blower. I have never heard such a change. For the other opamp I am using an AD8397._

 

Skylab, we kindly REQUEST a review!!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MusicallySilent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So many of those amps look so good...

 What would you reccomend for a beginner that is around 150 or so and preferablly has a rechargeable battery or ac adapter otherwise ill just get some rechargeable batteries._

 

I'd go for the iBasso P1 while they are being sold for under $100 - that is really a CRAZY good price. I'm actually considering re-buying one, and trying Jamato8's op-amp suggestion.


----------



## MusicallySilent

Where cann you find them since i cant find them on the site and cant really find them on the offical site

 Also how big is the amp lie compared to a credit card since that is why i liked some of the other amps due to size


----------



## Skylab

If you want a small size then you want the iBasso T1. 

 Both can be found on EBay.


----------



## MusicallySilent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want a small size then you want the iBasso T1. 

 Both can be found on EBay._

 

Hows the T1's sound compared to the P1

 Well i don't necessarily need thinness but if it is like hornet or tomahawk size it is fine..


----------



## Spoon Wrangler

I suggest you review the HeadAmp AE-2 and Headroom Micro Amp, just to be thorough. I'd like to see where both of those stand compared to the others. Otherwise, this is an amazing review!


----------



## Moloko

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spoon Wrangler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggest you review the HeadAmp AE-2 and Headroom Micro Amp, just to be thorough. I'd like to see where both of those stand compared to the others. Otherwise, this is an amazing review!_

 

Yeah, Skylab is The Man. He's become like our Prophet... our Voyant.


----------



## Skylab

I am hoping for an AE-2 loaner soon, and would welcome a loaner Headroom Micro-amp - anyone willing? These amps are too expensive for me to buy them just to review them, since I am not in the market for a portable amp for my own use anymore


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am hoping for an AE-2 loaner soon, and would welcome a loaner Headroom Micro-amp - anyone willing?_

 

My offer still stands for the loan on my Micro Amp (2006 desktop module/300 hours+) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...if nobody else steps up.

*[size=medium]But you ain't gettin' my AE-2[/size]*


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My offer still stands for the loan on my Micro Amp (2006 desktop module/300 hours+) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...if nobody else steps up.

*[size=medium]But you ain't gettin' my AE-2[/size]*



_

 

Awe c'mon... you can loan it to him when I send you my Hornet


----------



## Skylab

GreatDane has kindly offered his Microamp for me to review, in a few weeks when the decks clear a little I will do so, thanks to him. I am expecting a Go-Vibe 6 soon thanks to another head-fier's generous loan.


----------



## wakeride74

Now all you need is a hybrid and AE-2 and this will be the ultimate portable amp review
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally I'd rate the Hornet M above the PRII, I felt it has tighter bass and better imaging... slightly more space between instruments. Not sure if we heard the same version but I did listen to one with the AD8397.

 The AE-2 and TTVJ hybrid bring some serious meat to the table IMO. I'm reserving any conclusive opinions about either until I have them. I should have my AE-2 in a couple weeks and I've yet to order a hybrid for fear of that background wind-like noise I heard through my ES2's and the GS1000's at the meet but damn that thing sounded good.


----------



## Skylab

I'd break down and just buy an AE2 if I wasn't saving all my money for a RSA Apache


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd break down and just buy an AE2 if I wasn't saving all my money for a RSA Apache 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hear ya, the Apache is on my wishlist too! If you have not had any offers I will lend you my AE-2 after I've had some time with it.


----------



## Skylab

Headfiers are such a generous bunch, I swear! Thanks Wakerider, but it looks like an AE-2 is on it's way to me! Y'all rock.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awe c'mon... you can loan it to him when I send you my Hornet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What's wrong, skeered of a little competition for the Hornet ? ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









*This massive review list is gettin' good*


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's wrong, skeered of a little competition for the Hornet ? ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









*This massive review list is gettin' good*



_

 

lol
 I've already a/b the Hornet and AE-2 and I still prefered the Hornet but really liked the AE-2... obviously or I wouldn't have ordered one. The Hornet will hold it's own for many years I'd wager. You'll understand the ways of the RSA force soon


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol
 I've already a/b the Hornet and AE-2 and I still prefered the Hornet but really liked the AE-2... obviously or I wouldn't have ordered one. The Hornet will hold it's own for many years I'd wager. You'll understand the ways of the RSA force soon
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OH NO! You're trying to push me over the edge! I have resisted so far...almost bought a Hornet, then changed my want to a Tomahawk...now the 5.5G iMod topic is causing me to lose sleep and change my diet to all noodles and flavored water.

*Curse you!*


----------



## Skylab

I was leant a Go-Vibe 6 by very kind head-fier Goodsound. This version has the AD8620 op-amp. As such, I added the following to my review and update the rankings.

 > Go-Vibe V6

 Info: http://www.go-vibe-headphoneamp.com/

 This update Go-Vibe is nicer looking and seems better built than the GV-5. It also sounds better! Quite a lot better. I wasn't impressed with the GV-5. The GV-6 sounds better, and I feel is a good deal for the money. It's not perfect, but what is? 

 Build Quality: A-: It’s got a nice black anodized Hammond metal case. Feels very solid. No turn on thump at all. Fairly quiet -the amp exhibits very little noise at all. 
 Treble: B+: I did not care for the GV5’s treble presentation at all. The GV-6 has a better treble, but it is still, IMO, the amp's weak point. The treble is a little grainy, and lacks air and extension. But it's a big improvement over the GV-5, and isn't too bad.
 Midrange: B+: generally smooth and clean, much more forward than the GV-5. In fact, more forward than the Tomahawk! It's a somewhat forward midrange now. Not unpleasant though, and fairly open sounding, although not up there with the best.
 Bass: B+: punchy sounding, but lacks deep bass power. Stronger mid-bass. Decent definition and attack.
 Neutrality: B+: has a kind of tube-like sonic signature. Stronger lower treble than upper treble, slightly fat midrange and mid-bass, and not strong deep bass.
 Soundstaging: B+: good depth, decent width. Not stellar, not bad.
 Transparency: B+: Generally transparent except for the treble, where I felt it was a little murky. But decent.

 Hmmmm...all B+'s. Overall, the Go-Vibe 5 wasn’t my cup of tea, and while the GV-6 is much better, it still isn't 100% my cup of tea, although some will love it, since it's got a definite "sound" - again, one I feel is sort of like a tube amp. For me, the RSA Tomahawk and the Larocco PRII mk 2 which I directly comapred it to, are immediately noticably smoother and more open and transparent. But they are 3-5x the price of the GV-6! For the money, I think the GV-6 is an excellent amp. It's awesome you can get an amp this good for this amount of money. And while in this price range I prefer the iBasso P1, the GV-6 is far more tubey sounding than the iBasso, which will make it a better match for some headphone and head-fiers.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was leant a Go-Vibe 6 by very kind head-fier Goodsound. This version has the AD8620 op-amp. As such, I added the following to my review and update the rankings.

 > Go-Vibe V6

 Info: http://www.go-vibe-headphoneamp.com/

 This update Go-Vibe is nicer looking and seems better built than the GV-5. It also sounds better! Quite a lot better. I wasn't impressed with the GV-5. The GV-6 sounds better, and I feel is a good deal for the money. It's not perfect, but what is? 

 Build Quality: A-: It’s got a nice black anodized Hammond metal case. Feels very solid. No turn on thump at all. Fairly quiet -the amp exhibits very little noise at all. 
 Treble: B+: I did not care for the GV5’s treble presentation at all. The GV-6 has a better treble, but it is still, IMO, the amp's weak point. The treble is a little grainy, and lacks air and extension. But it's a big improvement over the GV-5, and isn't too bad.
 Midrange: B+: generally smooth and clean, much more forward than the GV-5. In fact, more forward than the Tomahawk! It's a somewhat forward midrange now. Not unpleasant though, and fairly open sounding, although not up there with the best.
 Bass: B+: punchy sounding, but lacks deep bass power. Stronger mid-bass. Decent definition and attack.
 Neutrality: B+: has a kind of tube-like sonic signature. Stronger lower treble than upper treble, slightly fat midrange and mid-bass, and not strong deep bass.
 Soundstaging: B+: good depth, decent width. Not stellar, not bad.
 Transparency: B+: Generally transparent except for the treble, where I felt it was a little murky. But decent.

 Hmmmm...all B+'s. Overall, the Go-Vibe 5 wasn’t my cup of tea, and while the GV-6 is much better, it still isn't 100% my cup of tea, although some will love it, since it's got a definite "sound" - again, one I feel is sort of like a tube amp. For me, the RSA Tomahawk and the Larocco PRII mk 2 which I directly comapred it to, are immediately noticably smoother and more open and transparent. But they are 3-5x the price of the GV-6! For the money, I think the GV-6 is an excellent amp. It's awesome you can get an amp this good for this amount of money. And while in this price range I prefer the iBasso P1, the GV-6 is far more tubey sounding than the iBasso, which will make it a better match for some headphone and head-fiers._

 

Yeap, the Go-Vibe house sound is definetly not your cup ot tea. But so what! some like chocolate others vanilla. Neither is right nor wrong, just a preference.


----------



## soloz2

Skylab

 I think a MisterX XP deserves to be in your review. I'll let you borrow mine if you would like. PM me if you want.

 I should also have a C&C Box+ coming soon that you might be able to give a listen as well.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeap, the Go-Vibe house sound is definetly not your cup ot tea. But so what! some like chocolate others vanilla. Neither is right nor wrong, just a preference._

 

Exactly, which I believe I said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soloz2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab

 I think a MisterX XP deserves to be in your review. I'll let you borrow mine if you would like. PM me if you want.

 I should also have a C&C Box+ coming soon that you might be able to give a listen as well._

 

Soloz2, I will Pm you, thanks for your kind offer.

 EDIT: I have been informed that MisterX is in the process of moving, which I did not know, so I have edited this post. My apologies to MisterX for any confusion I may have caused.


----------



## gonzalo

the AE-2 review is coming? thanks skylab


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gonzalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the AE-2 review is coming? thanks skylab_

 

Undetermined. Not sure of the status of securing a loaner.


----------



## goodsound

Thanks SkyLab for the V6 review. Appreciate your time and effort.

 I am pleased to find that V6 (alongwith XM4 and P-1) is up near that 'crossover' point where above that point all amps are more than twice the price!

 It probably only has about 40-50hours on it, I wonder if more break in would change anything ?

 {edit: ..or a different power source ?}


----------



## Skylab

It might indeed sound even better with more break in. But since I did not review any of these amps running off AC, it would not be a fair comparison for this purpose to use a different power source. I am sure many of the amps here could be taken to a higher level with a nice stiff regulated power supply


----------



## GreatDane

*Meier Audio Porta Corda MkIII-USB*































*[size=x-small]NO CLONING!![/size]*


----------



## mwallace573

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Meier Audio Porta Corda MkIII-USB*

*[size=x-small]NO CLONING!![/size]*








_

 

There's one heck of a lot going on in that little amp. All that for only $160. Curse this place!

 Not sure if this has been asked yet, but have you considered adding any DIY amps to the list? I'm pretty curious how a PINT or XP amp would rank with the rest.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I am being lent a MisterX amp soon


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mwallace573* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's one heck of a lot going on in that little amp. All that for only $160. Curse this place!

 Not sure if this has been asked yet, but have you considered adding any DIY amps to the list? I'm pretty curious how a PINT or XP amp would rank with the rest._

 

The one for $160 does not include the DAC. But it does not matter because for $160 you get one heck of a good sounding amp.


----------



## MusicallySilent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I am being lent a MisterX amp soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have gotten so many reccomendations for that amp i can't wait to get a review on it since i have trouble finding them


----------



## Vulpix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MusicallySilent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have gotten so many reccomendations for that amp i can't wait to get a review on it since i have trouble finding them _

 






 Too bad MisterX refuses to sell it to anyone outside of America...


----------



## soloz2

I'll be heading through Chicago in the next day or two so I'm going to try to meet w/ Skylab to drop off my XP for him to review. If this doesn't work I'll have to ship it once I'm home again, but Rob should have the amp within a week or so. I'm actually going to PM him right now.


----------



## leo5111

any timeline on a mini review on the ibasso t2 how it stacks up to the t1 etc... thanx


----------



## Skylab

I was offered a T2 to review, but no word on when I will get it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was offered a T2 to review, but no word on when I will get it._

 

I emailed with them because I ordered one and there was a shortage of parts but it appears they have gotten everything back in stock.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed with them because I ordered one and there was a shortage of parts but it appears they have gotten everything back in stock._

 

It appears that it is just as I suggested elsewhere.

 I just got an email from iBasso tonight and they said that with their supply of parts that they supplied their customers and would be suppling those they made the free offer to directly out of their new supply of parts soon.


----------



## Skylab

I just added:

*
 Update 6-7-07*

*> mSeed Labs Spirit*

 Info:  http://www.mseedlabs.org/spiritAmp.html

 I was leant a Spirit amp from MSeed labs by the manufacturer. See the above link for a full description, but this is a serious portable amp – Black Gate caps, JFET op amps biased into class A. I think the “plug in” board for use with an AC adapter is a little odd, but at least there is a way to use an AC adapter. No charging circuit though, which is a small bummer. 

*Build Quality*: A-: It’s got a nice black anodized Hammond metal case. Jacks are very solid. No turn on thump at all. Fairly quiet -the amp exhibits very little noise at all. 
*Treble*: A-: Treble is smooth, detailed, and uncolored. It was bright at first, but after break in for 200 hours it wasn’t. Excellent treble.
*Midrange*: B+: Open and enjoyable. Nice and neutral. Not lush or rich, but not thin. The very best amps are better, but the mids are enjoyable - not a liability.
*Bass:* B+: Great definition and depth. Not super-punchy and not the meatiest bass around, but very tight. Great pace and rhythm to the bass. 
*Neutrality:* A-: Superbly neutral; only detraction is the ever so slightly lean bass. But this is NOT a colored sounding amp, as so many portable amps under $200 seem to be.
*Soundstaging:* B+: good depth, decent width. Good image specificity. Again, not the best ever, but not a liability.
*Transparency:* A-: Above average transparency. Excellent performance here. 

 The Spirit is a VERY good amp, and for the money it’s outstanding. I really liked it - I was very impressed. It ranks in the upper tier of amps, and it represents good value. If it were in sexy case it could sell for $300, but let’s not tell mSeed that


----------



## soloz2

Sounds like a good little amp. I'm interested to see how you feel it stacks up against MisterX's XP as they are only $35 apart in price. Btw, if you haven't gotten my XP yet you should get it within the next day or two


----------



## Skylab

Soloz2, your very kind loan of the MisterX arrived at my home today, thanks. That is next on the review parade!


----------



## manhattanproj

does the mseed go well with the denon and/or beyer?


----------



## Hanzo

Skylab,

 How was the mSeed with IEMs? The site says it's low gain setting is for unity, but would that be enough with such as the UM2s? I know IEMs are not your thing, but I think your original post said you had some.


----------



## ricmat

Good work man!

 well, that's very good work indeed!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manhattanproj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does the mseed go well with the denon and/or beyer?_

 

VERY well with the Darth Beyers. With the DT990 and Denons it also sounds very good, although occasionally there was a little too much treble.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hanzo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 How was the mSeed with IEMs? The site says it's low gain setting is for unity, but would that be enough with such as the UM2s? I know IEMs are not your thing, but I think your original post said you had some._

 

I did not try it with my E500's, but I will endeavor to in the next few days.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ricmat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good work man!

 well, that's very good work indeed!!_

 

Thanks you!


----------



## antonyfirst

Skylab, I always follow your reviews, and I find them useful, or at least enjoying. Why don't you add definitions like "tube-like amp" or "analytical amp"? That would help many people, and I am one of them.
 Cheers!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I always follow your reviews, and I find them useful, or at least enjoying. Why don't you add definitions like "tube-like amp" or "analytical amp"? That would help many people, and I am one of them.
 Cheers!_

 

Thanks. Good suggestion. I'm just a hack reviewer, so I'm all for ideas to improve my reviews.


----------



## MrFaust

Skylab: do you know which opamp config is in the XP amp you are are going to test? There are two configs. One has dual LM6172 opamps and the other has a LM6172 and an AD8397. I had two xp amps, one with each config. I just sold my dual LM6172 amp today.


----------



## soloz2

It has the AD op-amp


----------



## MrFaust

Good, that is the better one of the two in my opinion. I absolutely love mine. So much so, that when I bought my Tomahawk and A/B tested for about 2 hours, I put up my Tomahawk the day I bought it and sold it in less than 10 minutes. I've had a Cmoy, LDM, LDM+, Total Bithead, both XP amps and a Tomahawk. The XP amp I still have has been my favorite so far.


----------



## Pete7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. Good suggestion. I'm just a hack reviewer, so I'm all for ideas to improve my reviews._

 

Right- that's why Ray Samuels sent you an Apache to review...


----------



## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good, that is the better one of the two in my opinion. I absolutely love mine. So much so, that when I bought my Tomahawk and A/B tested for about 2 hours, I put up my Tomahawk the day I bought it and sold it in less than 10 minutes. I've had a Cmoy, LDM, LDM+, Total Bithead, both XP amps and a Tomahawk. The XP amp I still have has been my favorite so far._

 

why did you sell the XP amp then?


----------



## apnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamal007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why did you sell the XP amp then?_

 

He said he sold the LM6172 version and kept the AD8397 version. Read closer.


----------



## djmj24

Skylab
 
 The Spirit is a VERY good amp said:
			
		

> http://www.head-fi.org/forums/images/smilies/smily_headphones1.gif[/img]


 
 Skylab,
 Spirit seems to be excellent, what is a better amp in your opinion?
 in other words how much money should I spend to have a better amp?


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously though, if I describe an amp has having "lean bass", or having "bright treble", which I have frequently, does that not speak to what you called "tonal qualities"?

 It is, IMO, a shame that an amp should have tonal qualities at all. It shouldn't. The ideal amp would be a "straight wire with gain". Sadly, I've yet to find one, so I try to find the closest one. If you actually WANT an amp with tonal color, then you are right, we do look at things from the other side of the river. Not that there is anything wrong with that - it's just a different view, that's all._

 

Yes, this is absolutely true.

 If as a reviewer talking too much about the tonal characteristics, then the review may be biased because everyone has different favorite here. Say, if one likes to hear the sound with more weight in bass, then he might say some device's bass is crap but in other's view the bass is just good enough. This will create endless argument without any common standard.

 I also agreed that we need to focus on the whole balancing in frequency response, soundstage, details such kinds common standards in audio review. Because no matter the tone is great to satisfy some type of users, if there is deficiency in these common standards, then it honestly reflect the quality of that device.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djmj24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,
 Spirit seems to be excellent, what is a better amp in your opinion?
 in other words how much money should I spend to have a better amp?_

 

Well, I think the Meier PCIII and Xin SMIV are a little better, and they are not that much more money. But it's not a big difference. To get a significant difference you have to go to the Hornet/SR71 or Larocco PRII, which are $350+.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think the Meier PCIII and Xin SMIV are a little better, and they are not that much more money. But it's not a big difference. To get a significant difference you have to go to the Hornet/SR71 or Larocco PRII, which are $350+._

 

Skylab, as a Meier amp's fan, did you find any traditional sound as in the desktop models in PCIII?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, as a Meier amp's fan, did you find any traditional sound as in the desktop models in PCIII?_

 

Sure, they have similarities, although the bigger Meier amps are more refined. But for someone who likes the home Meier amps, the PCIII is a very logical choice


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I think the Meier PCIII and Xin SMIV are a little better, and they are not that much more money. But it's not a big difference. To get a significant difference you have to go to the Hornet/SR71 or Larocco PRII, which are $350+._

 

We need to talk!


----------



## wnmnkh

Oh my god. The most comprehensive and extensive amp review I've ever seen. Impressive work I must say.

 P.S : This really deserves sticky.


----------



## keyid

skylab - got the misterx xp amp yet?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wnmnkh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh my god. The most comprehensive and extensive amp review I've ever seen. Impressive work I must say.

 P.S : This really deserves sticky._

 

Thank you!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keyid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab - got the misterx xp amp yet?_

 

Yep, it's next up on the hit parade.


----------



## penger

Wow... awesome review. This will really help when I decide to purchase a portable amp.


----------



## kamal007

waiting for your impression of the XP amp vs the rest of amps


----------



## skudmunky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamal007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_waiting for your impression of the XP amp vs the rest of amps_

 

me too, I just picked up an XP amp, and I love it.


----------



## keyid

Should be getting mine today or tomarrow. Too bad you cant get them new anymore. AFAIK are 2 different kinds home version and portable either having LM6172 or AD8397.


----------



## MrFaust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skudmunky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_me too, I just picked up an XP amp, and I love it._

 

glad you like the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I enjoyed the hell out of that one. If you get a chance, try to compare it to the version that has the AD opamp. I still thought the one I sold you sounded 10X better than the Tomahawk. And the one I have now sounds even better.


----------



## Skylab

All:

 For reasons that are my own, I will not be reviewing the MisterX XP. Sorry.

 Next up on the hit parade will be the iBasso T2, which I have previously committed to reviewing. But I am going to stop reviewing portable amps for a while following that, with the exception of the Meier MOVE, which I will review since I have ordered one. I need a break


----------



## elnero

So no AE-2 review?


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All:

 For reasons that are my own, I will not be reviewing the MisterX XP. Sorry.

 Next up on the hit parade will be the iBasso T2, which I have previously committed to reviewing. But I am going to stop reviewing portable amps for a while following that, with the exception of the Meier MOVE, which I will review since I have ordered one. I need a break 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Skylab shared his reasons with me and I can attest that they are valid and good. I tried to convince him to post the review, but the decision was wholly his to make and I am positive that he made the correct decision in the end.

 The review would not do a whole lot of good anyway, since Marshal is out of boards and so no new XP amps will be made anyway.

 This is a great resource!


----------



## JadeEast

Skylab thanks for all the great work and effort you
 put into the reviewing of all those amps you did
 an amazing job and a service to the community
 here by undertaking this effort.

 I just wanted to give you a public thanks for all the work, it
 really helped to read all your reviews when looking to make
 a decision on a portable amp purchase.

 Once again thank you.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soloz2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab shared his reasons with me and I can attest that they are valid and good. I tried to convince him to post the review, but the decision was wholly his to make and I am positive that he made the correct decision in the end.

 The review would not do a whole lot of good anyway, since Marshal is out of boards and so no new XP amps will be made anyway.

 This is a great resource!_

 

Thank you very much for the kind words, and the generous loan of the XP, Soloz2. You are a stand-up guy.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elnero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So no AE-2 review?_

 

Actually, yes, I will be reviewing that, as the kind head-fier who ordered it is having Headamp send it straight to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just not sure when...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JadeEast* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab thanks for all the great work and effort you
 put into the reviewing of all those amps you did
 an amazing job and a service to the community
 here by undertaking this effort.

 I just wanted to give you a public thanks for all the work, it
 really helped to read all your reviews when looking to make
 a decision on a portable amp purchase.

 Once again thank you._

 

Thank YOU! I'm going to keep reviewing stuff here on head-fi, just taking a break from portable amps.


----------



## MrFaust

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All:

 For reasons that are my own, I will not be reviewing the MisterX XP. Sorry.

 Next up on the hit parade will be the iBasso T2, which I have previously committed to reviewing. But I am going to stop reviewing portable amps for a while following that, with the exception of the Meier MOVE, which I will review since I have ordered one. I need a break 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's a shame, but we understand. I think we all have enjoying your reviews so far. I personally will continue to pimp the XP amp even though they can no longer be made. I maintain that it is still one of the best portable amps out there. Even better than many of the much higher priced portables. 

 Personally though I can wait for... nevermind, I can't let the secret out of the bag just yet  Evil I know.


----------



## Killercrush

News about the Diablo, Skylab ?


----------



## dr.morton

Quote:


 News about the Diablo, Skylab ? 
 

Killercrush, you still believe in Father Christmas?


----------



## Killercrush

Haha, longest wait ever. $550 right ?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, the Diablo remains as elusive as ever. No one has heard from Larry at Larocco in a good while, now.


----------



## dr.morton

Maybe he is already on his way to South America 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to order one. I was very happy with my PRII apart from the fact that it was simply to big as a portable.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr.morton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe he is already on his way to South America 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to order one. I was very happy with my PRII apart from the fact that it was simply to big as a portable._

 

Perhaps, but the sound is just fantastic.


----------



## skudmunky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MrFaust* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a shame, but we understand. I think we all have enjoying your reviews so far. I personally will continue to pimp the XP amp even though they can no longer be made. I maintain that it is still one of the best portable amps out there. Even better than many of the much higher priced portables. 

 Personally though I can wait for... nevermind, I can't let the secret out of the bag just yet  Evil I know._

 

I had no idea it was such an exclusive amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I really am enjoying it, the noise floor with my UM1 is great (as in, there is no hiss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). Can't wait for a boston meet to do some comparisons.


----------



## dr.morton

Quote:


 Perhaps, but the sound is just fantastic. 
 

Yeah, it is. But I am not much of a headphone guy. I rarely use them at home just for some films on my Cowon A2. I was also displeased with the fact that the PRIIs inputs are on the back (same as with the Diablo, ggrrrhhh). I prefer them on the front with a very short IC. That is the reason I am waiting for an AE-2.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr.morton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I was also displeased with the fact that the PRIIs inputs are on the back (same as with the Diablo, ggrrrhhh)._

 

diablo? what diablo? oh, you mean those nice sketches of someone's idea for a sota portable amp, eh.


----------



## dr.morton

Sadly, it is more. That makes the whole thing so frustrating.


----------



## silverrain

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr.morton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



 Sadly, it is more. That makes the whole thing so frustrating._

 

What are the things on left and right?


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *silverrain* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are the things on left and right?_

 

Bass contour and volume.


----------



## itobito

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr.morton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



 Sadly, it is more. That makes the whole thing so frustrating._

 

larocco Diablo, like lamborghini...

 and this one is new amp from jan meier, corda mova, also very beauty:


----------



## manhattanproj

i have a hard time using the word "beauty" to describe anything from meier below the aria. headfive/arietta, they are passable. but anything below that...eh. and esp the new corda move, with its two color scheme, the grey or silver looks outta place with the black covers, and vice versa. it may look a bit nicer with either all black or all silver.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr.morton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_


 Sadly, it is more. That makes the whole thing so frustrating._

 

wow, where that picture come from? he's actually built a unit?! are there any out there?


----------



## gonzalo

from here i think http://www.laroccoaudio.net/productsservices.html


----------



## Skylab

And no, no Diablo has ever been actually delivered to anyone. That is just a one-off prototype.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And no, no Diablo has ever been actually delivered to anyone. That is just a one-off prototype._

 

I ordered one back in Aug-24, 2005 to be delivered by that Christmas and sold the rights to it to someone else who I think as sold the rights to it to someone else; etc. So the Diablo is vaporware in the most real sense.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed. I bought the rights to one from Steaxauce, and after 6 months or so sold the rights to someone else when I wanted the funds to buy something else. I actually will get to listen to the Diablo for exactly ONE DAY if it ever comes out. I'm not at all convinced that it will. I think there is a very real chance that Larocco Audio will be out of business before one Diablo is made. I have no solid facts or inside knowledge here, but I just don't see how they can stay in business selling a tiny handful of PRII's, and with all the crazy cost over-runs on the Diablo. The money that they got from the pre-order on the Diablo was no doubt spent long, long ago. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised. Larocco Audio's official line is that the amp will come out on July 5th. But they have given dates that didn't happen a zillion times before, and when they gave that date it was still months away. SO color me skeptical.


----------



## daveDerek

it's a real pity that he can't properly run a business. i'm quite interested in his products given their reputed sound quality but i can't see picking up a product, even on the used market, that isn't supported and with a company that's consistently demonstrated themselves to be so undependable. so if the designer and the builder have split, is phil larocco looking for another way to get his ideas produced?
 sky, will you listen to the unit new or after it's been burned in? we'd all love to hear your impressions (if and when you get the opportunity to play with a diablo) but if it's got components such as blackgates early impressions could prove misleading. oh well, i guess we'll cross that bridge if we get there.


----------



## oicdn

I think the PRII is the most beautiful sounding amp out there. The bass boost is great, but I'm also a bass head. I also ABSOLUTELY HATE the jacks on the back. Also, why the hell are there 1/4 jacks????? That is the most dumb and idiotic thing you could do...but still, it's SQ and punch overshadows it. I will say it's the ONLY amp where it's cost and impractical size and impractical ergonomics are thrown out the window when you listen to it. I just don't have enough funds to purchase one. But if I did, you can bet it'd be a staple in my portable aresenal for sure.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's a real pity that he can't properly run a business. i'm quite interested in his products given their reputed sound quality but i can't see picking up a product, even on the used market, that isn't supported and with a company that's consistently demonstrated themselves to be so undependable. so if the designer and the builder have split, is phil larocco looking for another way to get his ideas produced?
 sky, will you listen to the unit new or after it's been burned in? we'd all love to hear your impressions (if and when you get the opportunity to play with a diablo) but if it's got components such as blackgates early impressions could prove misleading. oh well, i guess we'll cross that bridge if we get there._

 

I won't do a full review of the Diablo since I will only get to hear it "cold". That assumes it will ever come out.

 And yes, Phil Larocco himself is doing business with a new company to produce his designs:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3043426

 And yes I did a full review of the prototype


----------



## nickknutson

Hey Skylab,
 Did you notice that Larry has added pics of the Diablo to his website...*actual pictures*, not computer generated design pics.

 How do you like your PRII now that you've had it few months? Does it work okay? Have you any problems with it?


----------



## Skylab

I love the sound of the PRII. Mine does have a problem though - it hums when connected to AC power. So I can only use it on batteries. I emailed Larry at Larocco Audio about getting this fixed - no reply.

 And I know there are pics of ONE Diablo. But that does not mean much, sadly. Just that he made ONE housing. There is a long thread on ipodstudio about how Larry bought his own CNC machine to make Diablo chassis. But that was MONTHS ago, and still nothing.


----------



## nickknutson

I know about the ipodstudio thread, I've seen the drama first hand. I haven't been around since the beginning, so I don't even know the half of it, But nonetheless, I thought it was a good sign that he has one built...the housing anyway.
 How long do the batteries last on a single charge on your mk2?


----------



## Skylab

8-10 hours. It's a hog.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love the sound of the PRII. Mine does have a problem though - it hums when connected to AC power. So I can only use it on batteries. I emailed Larry at Larocco Audio about getting this fixed - no reply ..._

 

I have a similar issue with noise, but only in one of the outlets by where I plug the rest of my gear. I asked Larry and his answer is that although I have a regulated 24 vdc PSU it is a switching one. According to Larry the switching psu is what is causing the problem.

 Have you tried a cheater plug? Also disconnect everything, then you could plug the LaRocco with the PSU and start adding components while checking for hum. When the hum returns you know which component is the culprit. Good luck.


----------



## Skylab

There is no issue there - there are no AC powered components OTHER than the PRII when I use it. I know what the issue is. The Chassis and board in mine are not lined up right, and so the ground of the AC plug touches the chassis. Happens both with my ELPAC and my Larocco PSR.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long do the batteries last on a single charge on your mk2?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_8-10 hours. It's a hog._

 

hey, compared to a maxxed out portaphile it's positively miserly. the portaphile is reported to go thru it's battery power in 2 hrs! i guess they're just trying to preserve your hearing.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no issue there - there are no AC powered components OTHER than the PRII when I use it. I know what the issue is. The Chassis and board in mine are not lined up right, and so the ground of the AC plug touches the chassis. Happens both with my ELPAC and my Larocco PSR._

 

That is right, we discussed this before. Sorry.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey, compared to a maxxed out portaphile it's positively miserly. the portaphile is reported to go thru it's battery power in 2 hrs! i guess they're just trying to preserve your hearing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Now, now, now Dave … with the iPower 500mAh Li-Po rechargeables my Portaphile Maxxed gets 4.5 hours with Class-A & Wide Bandwidth on, and 8.5 hours with Class-A on but Wide Bandwidth off. In portable venues the subtle improvements of Wide Bandwidth are lost with even moderate ambient background noise, so 8.5 hours it is (a good workday's listening).

 With UltraLife 1200mAh Lithium (disposable) 9V, it's 20 hours with Class-A on (WB off) — that's 20 hours — so no room for whining.

 BTW - to my sensibilities and ears the Portaphile Maxxed offers a much more complex, macro-and-micro-detailed, lifelike, layered, involving and accordingly high quality/top level sound than some have perceived. (Aside from differing tastes, I'm not sure why some have determined this to be a mediocre-sounding amp.)


----------



## Skylab

Romanee - no offense buddy, but 20 hours from Lithium disposables isn't very good. Those puppies are expensive!

 I wish the PRII got better battery life, but since they are rechargable, it's rarely an issue. Plus I just make sure to always have my Tomohawk and it's 500 hours nearby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 VERY excited to try the new Meier MOVE, which also supposedly gets a pretty long life from it's batteries.


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Romanee - no offense buddy, but 20 hours from Lithium disposables isn't very good. Those puppies are expensive!

 I wish the PRII got better battery life, but since they are rechargable, it's rarely an issue. Plus I just make sure to always have my Tomohawk and it's 500 hours nearby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 VERY excited to try the new Meier MOVE, which also supposedly gets a pretty long life from it's batteries._

 

If only Jan would case his porta cordas (and Move) in more attractive cases, then I would buy 16000000000000000. Seriously, plastic cases aren't the bomb (sorry to say this, but neither is the Move's aluminum case).






 Brendan


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now, now, now Dave … with the iPower 500mAh Li-Po rechargeables my Portaphile Maxxed gets 4.5 hours with Class-A & Wide Bandwidth on, and 8.5 hours with Class-A on but Wide Bandwidth off. In portable venues the subtle improvements of Wide Bandwidth are lost with even moderate ambient background noise, so 8.5 hours it is (a good workday's listening).
 With UltraLife 1200mAh Lithium (disposable) 9V, it's 20 hours with Class-A on (WB off) — that's 20 hours — so no room for whining._

 

you seem to be doing a lot better than the guy who was telling me that he gets 2 hrs from his. even at it's best, it doesn't hold a candle to the battery life of the tomahawk. one of these days you gotta play with the xin supermicro, Peter. yeah, the battery life is only about 20 hrs, but that's from a single aaa.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If only Jan would case his porta cordas (and Move) in more attractive cases, then I would buy 16000000000000000. Seriously, plastic cases aren't the bomb (sorry to say this, but neither is the Move's aluminum case).






 Brendan_

 

I think the MOVE looks nice in the pictures - we'll see what it looks like when I actually get it...


----------



## tnmike1

Davederek: I'm the guy who said he gets two hours of battery life. BUT I'm having all the switches "on", including bandwidth, and am using rechargeable batteries. Also, I rarely use this as a "portable" amp, deciding primarily to use it while plugged into the wall for bedside listening. When I do use it portably, it's in the gym where I exercise about onehour so I know what my battery life is going to be.

 All that said, to my mind, the Portaphile totally maxxed out beats almost everything out there in sound quality, albeit at the sacrifice of battery life


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Romanee - no offense buddy, but 20 hours from Lithium disposables isn't very good. Those puppies are expensive!_

 

Yep. I quite agree. Certainly no offense taken … I was kind of teasing Dave. I know the Portaphile is an energy guzzler … just somewhat better than 2 hours tho'.

 I don't spend $5 or so for 20hrs of music either, except for HeadFests perhaps.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you seem to be doing a lot better than the guy who was telling me that he gets 2 hrs from his. even at it's best, it doesn't hold a candle to the battery life of the tomahawk. one of these days you gotta play with the xin supermicro, Peter. yeah, the battery life is only about 20 hrs, but that's from a single aaa._

 

Aside from amps like the Tomahawk, which (besides being tiny, solid and purty) are super energy efficient, I go for ultimate SQ.

 I'd love to play with a SuperMicro IV or whatever the most current version is … I have just never ever seen one at a meet or been able to beg, borrow … (I can't say steal) … one. Us NYC types have tried several times to get a loaner from Dr. Xin for local meets, but no go. Don't know why they haven't appeared at NYC or Nat'l Meets. I was so sure I'd find one HeadFest, but couldn't.

 BTW - I'm perfectly happy to get 8.5 hours from an iPower 500mAh Li-Po and carry a (lightweight) spare. As I just posted, the only time I've used an UltraLife 1200mAh is for HeadFest, and that had juice to spare when I got home.

 Still, Tomahawk is my uber-portable of choice. If I ever get to have use of a SuperMicro IV (or Dr. X's latest amp – Reference or other) I will certainly compare it to the amps I have, and hopefully borrow a few more — IF IF IF.

 Regarding the 2-hr battery life with Portaphile, that's with a NiMH rechargeable … probably 230 mAh or so. 250-270mAh gets about 2.5 with all options on. iPower 500mAh is a "big" boost in longevity for a rechargeable.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you seem to be doing a lot better than the guy who was telling me that he gets 2 hrs from his. even at it's best, it doesn't hold a candle to the battery life of the tomahawk. one of these days you gotta play with the xin supermicro, Peter. yeah, the battery life is only about 20 hrs, but that's from a single aaa._

 

It is up to 35 hours with the latest tweaks.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Regarding the 2-hr battery life with Portaphile, that's with a NiMH rechargeable … probably 230 mAh or so. 250-270mAh gets about 2.5 with all options on. iPower 500mAh is a "big" boost in longevity for a rechargeable._

 

I used to get 2.5 hours w/ eveready alkaline batteries in wide bandwith and class a, low gain. Great sound, one of best specially in the bass. But I hate its battery life. Sorry.


----------



## MusicallySilent

You should try reviewing the ibasso t2 for comparison and also review the PA2V2 because that one is one of the most loved first amps


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to play with a SuperMicro IV or whatever the most current version is … I have just never ever seen one at a meet or been able to beg, borrow … (I can't say steal) … one. Us NYC types have tried several times to get a loaner from Dr. Xin for local meets, but no go. Don't know why they haven't appeared at NYC or Nat'l Meets._

 

one did make an appearance at the last nyc meet, partly with you in mind. unfortunately you weren't able to make an appearance there.


 but back on topic, hey skylab, when are you gonna talk about the latest portable headamp?


----------



## Skylab

The Ibasso T2 is supposedly on it's way to me. According to another head-fier, AE-2's are still delayed.


----------



## Goh

Skylab, do you think that a home amp will be better sounding than a portable amp at an equivalent price? For example, how would you compare something like the Original Master or Corda Arietta (a little above $200) to something like the Porta Corda, Corda Move, or Supermicro IV? I'm not interested in portability, just sound quality/power to drive my AKG K601s.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


 I was so sure I'd find one HeadFest, but couldn't. 
 

You should have asked me, I had one in my truck


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Goh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, do you think that a home amp will be better sounding than a portable amp at an equivalent price? For example, how would you compare something like the Original Master or Corda Arietta (a little above $200) to something like the Porta Corda, Corda Move, or Supermicro IV? I'm not interested in portability, just sound quality/power to drive my AKG K601s._

 

My advise is if you are not in need of portability, buy a home amp.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My advise is if you are not in need of portability, buy a home amp._

 

x2


----------



## PeterDLai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If only Jan would case his porta cordas (and Move) in more attractive cases, then I would buy 16000000000000000. Seriously, plastic cases aren't the bomb (sorry to say this, but neither is the Move's aluminum case).






 Brendan_

 

To be honest, I would be more inclined on getting the MOVE if it was in a black aluminum case rather than the silver one.

 Can't get everything you want, I suppose...


----------



## manhattanproj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My advise is if you are not in need of portability, buy a home amp._

 

why? power?


----------



## MusicallySilent

Bigger components, more room, generally better price/sound/performance ratio, more space for extra components.

 EDIT: They also work nicely as a space heater during those cold months


----------



## Skylab

All of the above. Home amps will simply not make the inevitable compromises that are involved in making a very small amp.

 There is no doubt that the best portables are very close in sound to home amps. I once blind tested the RSA Tomahawk versus a Corda Aria, and was only just able to tell the difference, although I was using an unfamiliar source and unfamiliar headphones. Nonetheless, there ARE differences, and if there is no portable application, I recommend a home amp.


----------



## Solitary1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just added:

*
 Update 6-7-07*

*> mSeed Labs Spirit*

 Info:  http://www.mseedlabs.org/spiritAmp.html

 I was leant a Spirit amp from MSeed labs by the manufacturer. See the above link for a full description, but this is a serious portable amp – Black Gate caps, JFET op amps biased into class A. I think the “plug in” board for use with an AC adapter is a little odd, but at least there is a way to use an AC adapter. No charging circuit though, which is a small bummer. 

*Build Quality*: A-: It’s got a nice black anodized Hammond metal case. Jacks are very solid. No turn on thump at all. Fairly quiet -the amp exhibits very little noise at all. 
*Treble*: A-: Treble is smooth, detailed, and uncolored. It was bright at first, but after break in for 200 hours it wasn’t. Excellent treble.
*Midrange*: B+: Open and enjoyable. Nice and neutral. Not lush or rich, but not thin. The very best amps are better, but the mids are enjoyable - not a liability.
*Bass:* B+: Great definition and depth. Not super-punchy and not the meatiest bass around, but very tight. Great pace and rhythm to the bass. 
*Neutrality:* A-: Superbly neutral; only detraction is the ever so slightly lean bass. But this is NOT a colored sounding amp, as so many portable amps under $200 seem to be.
*Soundstaging:* B+: good depth, decent width. Good image specificity. Again, not the best ever, but not a liability.
*Transparency:* A-: Above average transparency. Excellent performance here. 

 The Spirit is a VERY good amp, and for the money it’s outstanding. I really liked it - I was very impressed. It ranks in the upper tier of amps, and it represents good value. If it were in sexy case it could sell for $300, but let’s not tell mSeed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Skylab, I must concur with you on your excellent review of this amp. The mSeed Labs guys have outdone themselves this time. I DO miss the nice faceplate that was present with the Faith amp, but that's a minor quibble. A major player in this crowded portable amp world.


----------



## daveyostrow

im looking for the budget amp... how do the govibe 5 compare to the pa2v2? and how people seem to think govibe is the way to go, but here the pa2v2 was ranked much higher than the govibe 6?!?


----------



## dandi

X2 on the mSeed Spirit. hadn't ever heard of Mustard Seed Labs until Skylab's review. I really like this amp and the folks at mSeed are a pleasure to work with.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveyostrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im looking for the budget amp... how do the govibe 5 compare to the pa2v2? and how people seem to think govibe is the way to go, but here the pa2v2 was ranked much higher than the govibe 6?!?_

 

I didn't review the pa2v2. I have never heard one. Are you confusing it with the Portaphile?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dandi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X2 on the mSeed Spirit. hadn't ever heard of Mustard Seed Labs until Skylab's review. I really like this amp and the folks at mSeed are a pleasure to work with._

 

The Spirit continues to impress me. I may not even have ranked it high enough. It's terrific.


----------



## soloz2

I wasn't impressed w/ the pa2v2


----------



## manhattanproj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All of the above. Home amps will simply not make the inevitable compromises that are involved in making a very small amp.
_

 

but there are home amps that are the similar in size as a portable, like the arietta/headfive and the sr71. 

 so for the same price, say 400, a home amp like the eddie current, glite, etc. will perform better than a hornet, sr71, ae2, etc?


----------



## Skylab

Did you mean same PRICE? The Headfive is much bigger than an SR71.

 I felt the Headfive was slightly better than a couple of somewhat more expensive portable amps I owned at the time, yes. I have a Glite in house (from Asr) right now and I will compare it side by side to my portables.


----------



## daveyostrow

my bad, i thought the Portaphile V2^2 was the same as the pa2v2.
 im such a newb, but im getting there.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveyostrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my bad, i thought the Portaphile V2^2 was the same as the pa2v2.
 im such a newb, but im getting there._

 

lol I made a similar mistake before...too many amps, so little time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...and Rob, what's up with snoog? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 I've never heard of this A&W brand...is this some new beyer mod you've cooked up??


----------



## Skylab

Woohoo! Snoog! My son's awesome creation of today. Great cans!


----------



## khbaur330162

Redbull's got more energy if you ask me. Not nearly as much weight though.


----------



## manhattanproj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you mean same PRICE? The Headfive is much bigger than an SR71._

 

i do mean size. it's just longer right? i've never compared them side by side. 

 do you have the glite with dps? it would be nice if you do the comparison with and without the dps. having the dps, i feel, is not a fair comparison in terms of price.


----------



## Sieg9198

Currently I'm in a dilemma, whether to get the K701 or E500, because I'm going to drive them with my hornet, I'm afraid the hornet cant drive the K701 good enough...maybe I'll enjoy more with the E500 instead.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manhattanproj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i do mean size. it's just longer right? i've never compared them side by side. 

 do you have the glite with dps? it would be nice if you do the comparison with and without the dps. having the dps, i feel, is not a fair comparison in terms of price._

 

The Meier HeadFive is probably the size of 6 SR71's made into a brick  It's MUCH larger, owing in no small part to it's decent sized toroidal transformer (the Headfive/Arietta have a built-in power supply - no wall wart needed).

 My loaner Glite has the DPS, no way to audition it otherwise, sorry.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sieg9198* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently I'm in a dilemma, whether to get the K701 or E500, because I'm going to drive them with my hornet, I'm afraid the hornet cant drive the K701 good enough...maybe I'll enjoy more with the E500 instead._

 

I don't own either the 701 or Hornet but I'm fairly certain that you'll have no problem pairing those.


----------



## vorlon1

Just to clear this up, the Headfive is quite a bit larger than the SR-71.


----------



## manhattanproj

^it is quite a bit larger. good pics


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't own either the 701 or Hornet but I'm fairly certain that you'll have no problem pairing those._

 

x2

 Sounds like the bigger question you have is which cans do you want as you are really comparing apples to oranges between the E500 and K701.


----------



## der_yeti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sieg9198* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently I'm in a dilemma, whether to get the K701 or E500, because I'm going to drive them with my hornet, I'm afraid the hornet cant drive the K701 good enough...maybe I'll enjoy more with the E500 instead._

 

You'll be surprised how great the Hornet fits the K701. I had that combination for nearly one year and then switched to Stax.


----------



## Sieg9198

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2

 Sounds like the bigger question you have is which cans do you want as you are really comparing apples to oranges between the E500 and K701._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *der yeti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You'll be surprised how great the Hornet fits the K701. I had that combination for nearly one year and then switched to Stax._

 

Thats why I'm in a dilemma
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 whether to get the apples or oranges...

 I'll trust you guys on this, if the K701 has no problem with the hornet. I'll go with the head-fi spirit - *





 get both!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## Contrastique

Wow! When I got interested in amps I stumbled upon this thread and checked it out but not that thoroughly. I have just finished reading the entire thread and I am impressed even more. Skylab, that is an incredible job you did and must have cost you a hell lot of time besides your normal dayjob.
 Surprised to see this hasn't been made a sticky yet (they probably have their reasons I guess) but it sure is a great help if you are a newb or looking for a new amp.
 I have found the chance to audition the SR71 and the Larocco next monday so I am excited to find out what my findings will be after having read so much.
 I think I know wich one will be going home with me though but still an interesting oppurtunity to finally check them out myself. 
 So I do want to say a big thank you for showing me the world of many amps and setting up a great review with only soundqual as a standard and leaving the rest of the issues to be considered by the rest of the people and thereby avoiding discussions wich would have distracted from the most important factor of an amp. 
 Thanxx once again


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Contrastique! I appreciate the nice words.

 Very soon the iBasso T2 and the Meier MOVE will be added


----------



## yobs

sweeet!! been eyeing the move ! can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## Computerstud

Skylab, can't wait for the T2 review. Sky, can you also note where it rank with reference to the list of amp you reviewed? I would be really interested in how the T2 rank compare with these other amps. Thanks. I can't wait to hear your audiophile opinion on the T2


----------



## Skylab

Oh yeah, it will get ranked. If I review it, it gets ranked.


----------



## hardstyler

Woohoo after 4 months I come back here and my Xenos is still in 4th place. So glad I bought this great amp


----------



## Richy

Skylab this Review is getting better all the time!!
 Great work, good reference for newbies like me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Waiting for your ibasso T2 review, 
 beforing deciding on the T1 or T2

 This thread should be a sticky!!


----------



## yobs

Richy, T1 has some issues if you're going to be using it as a portable amp... it lets off shrill noises when cell phone signals go off nearby, not unlike non-shielded speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least that happened with mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. T2 fixed these problems apparently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## sum1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Very soon the iBasso T2 and the Meier MOVE will be added 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ooh cant wait on Skylab's T2 review. I've been eyeing on these thread to help what i should get for my first amp. 

 Just one request if you have some time, Can you please list the price of the amps on your list so that some of us can see the value factor of those amps which might be useful for some people like me who are more interested in the value factor of the amps


----------



## slattikarma

Great thread. I have just read all 38 pages and feel like I need to take a nap! Thank you Skylab! Your dedication is incredible.

 I started off the thread wanting a Hornet, then a Headphonia, then a Tomahawk and now a Porta Corda Mrk III... and I feel that may change to a Corda Move in a few days time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One point I'm a bit confused on, that I would like clarified for the benefit of newbies such as I.

 What exactly is the benefit in buying a DAC amp vs a normal amp?

 For example, when using a laptop, would the DAC amps that use USB such as the Bithead, Corda Move or Headphonia be preferred over a non DAC amp that uses the headphone jack such as an RSA Hornet or Tomahawk?

 Is there much of a difference? Or is the advantage solely in that you can power the amp from the USB?

 I'm just a tad bit confused here.

 I'm trying to decide what to buy for my Beyer DT770/80, that I plan to use with my macbook and on the road with my ipod. 

 Thanks.


----------



## MrFaust

Has anyone managed to find the iPower 500mAh Li-On rechargeable battery for less than $14.97 US ?


----------



## mcmyers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slattikarma* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great thread. I have just read all 38 pages and feel like I need to take a nap! Thank you Skylab! Your dedication is incredible.

 I started off the thread wanting a Hornet, then a Headphonia, then a Tomahawk and now a Porta Corda Mrk III... and I feel that may change to a Corda Move in a few days time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 One point I'm a bit confused on, that I would like clarified for the benefit of newbies such as I.

 What exactly is the benefit in buying a DAC amp vs a normal amp?

 For example, when using a laptop, would the DAC amps that use USB such as the Bithead, Corda Move or Headphonia be preferred over a non DAC amp that uses the headphone jack such as an RSA Hornet or Tomahawk?

 Is there much of a difference? Or is the advantage solely in that you can power the amp from the USB?

 I'm just a tad bit confused here.

 I'm trying to decide what to buy for my Beyer DT770/80, that I plan to use with my macbook and on the road with my ipod. 

 Thanks._

 

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that a DAC with USB will let you bypass your laptop's internal soundcard, as well as all the noisy inerts of your computer and give you a cleaner signal. So unless you have a great internal soundcard, a USB DAC is going to give you better sound from your computer than if you just amped straight out of the computer. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slattikarma* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What exactly is the benefit in buying a DAC amp vs a normal amp?_

 

If you buy a normal amp, you just connect the line out of the pc to the line in of the normal amp. line out signals are created by the PC soundcard (or onboard soundchip) and they don't produce the greatest quality sound for music. They are fine for games crash boom bang. The noise from fans, etc. also degrade the sound quality going into the amp.

 If you take the digital output of the computer and let an external DAC convert it, the sound quality is better (noise is blocked since digital output is just 0 & 1s). The DAC component quality is generally better than that of the soundcards too. 

 So get a DAC amp and you get extra flexibility. You can listen to better quality music on your PC, yet it is still portable so it works with your DAP when needed.

  Quote:


 Or is the advantage solely in that you can power the amp from the USB? 
 

That is a benefit too; you don't need to carry a wall wart PS with you when you travel (and don't go through batteries so quickly).

 I should add you can get separate portable DACs and amps too. If you go that route then the DAC could be powered by the USB but the amp wouldn't be. Some portable DACs support spdif/TOSlink directly if you had a high quality source that could use it.


----------



## slattikarma

Wow. You guys are quick.

 Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.

 So, that would mean a DAC amp would also be very useful for those that use their laptop for audio production?


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slattikarma* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For example, when using a laptop, would the DAC amps that use USB such as the Bithead, Corda Move or Headphonia be preferred over a non DAC amp that uses the headphone jack such as an RSA Hornet or Tomahawk?_

 

For this use, the DAC amp would absolutely be preferred and in each of the cases you discuss would be expected to give a significant improvement in sound quality over the headphone out of the laptop. There are two reasons for this: 1) the DAC sections of the amps you name are far better than the sound card of most laptops, and 2) you are doing the conversion of sound outside the laptop and away from all the internal electrical interference.

 I am not however comparing the amp section of any specific DAC amp with any specific non-DAC amp. I am nonetheless confident that even the finest portable amp will be a disappointment when used with the inferior headphone out of most laptops.


----------



## epaludo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not however comparing the amp section of any specific DAC amp with any specific non-DAC amp. I am nonetheless confident that even the finest portable amp will be a disappointment when used with the inferior headphone out of most laptops._

 

Definitely.
 The headphone out of a laptop amplifies the signal. So connecting a headphone out to an external amp will amplify the signal twice, which is really bad. You'll get more distortion. What do you need is to connect a line-out to the amp. If your laptop doesn't have a line-out, that's where the external USB DAC comes in. So the DAC will convert the digital signal to analog. And then you'll connect the DAC, non amplified, line-out to the amp.
 If you're using a DAC/AMP combo, you'll be provided by a headphone out directly ...


----------



## facelvega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *epaludo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Definitely.
 The headphone out of a laptop amplifies the signal. So connecting a headphone out to an external amp will amplify the signal twice, which is really bad. You'll get more distortion._

 

The headphone out of a laptop is bad because it is bad, not because of dual amplification. Does double amping increase distortion? Yes, nominally. But many sources including a lot of beloved standalone dacs amp their line out signal with opamps, and everyone who has a separate preamplifier (a real one, that is, and not just a switchbox) in their home system does the same. Nonamped line outs can be great, but they are not an end-all. This is a head-fi myth that has been growing in the last few months and needs to be nipped in the bud.


----------



## Skylab

OK I now have about 60 hours on my Meier MOVE, and it's improved some from cold (where it already sounded very good). Full review to come soon, but this amp is excellent. Much like other Meier amps, it features a smooth yet detailed sound, but it's a little warmer like the Opera is. Still very transparent, clean, and very musical. It's going to fare very well.


----------



## N15M0

Hi I have been using the hornet as my portable amp with the 5G ipod as my source with the triple fi. But I find that the difference in the sound generated from triple fi between amp and unamp is minimal.


----------



## Nattydraddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mcmyers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm no expert, but my understanding is that a DAC with USB will let you bypass your laptop's internal soundcard, as well as all the noisy inerts of your computer and give you a cleaner signal. So unless you have a great internal soundcard, a USB DAC is going to give you better sound from your computer than if you just amped straight out of the computer. Hope that makes sense._

 

Your internal soundcard gets normally bypassed. But you can get noise from your computer. You don´t get EMV form your computer in the DAC. But you can get hum through the USB cable.

 The only easy solution for that is to use optical out.


----------



## LepakVT

hey I'm looking around for my first budget portable amp 

 How does the PA2v2 compare with the Xenos 0HA-RHP? I'll most likely get one of these, unless there is a better alternative within the same price range.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LepakVT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey I'm looking around for my first budget portable amp 

 How does the PA2v2 compare with the Xenos 0HA-RHP? I'll most likely get one of these, unless there is a better alternative within the same price range._

 

I've never heard a PA2v2, but based on comments I have seen, and my positive experience with the 0HA, I'd probably go with that, unless you can stretch your budget to the $149 mSeed Spirit.


----------



## kamenal

Out of the box - very obvious improvement in dynamic range, clear highs, deeper lows with iPod 4G, ALO Cryo Dock and various inexpensive cans ( SR-60, Senns 555, less so with Etys ER-4P). Can't compare with other amps (noob here) - this is my first. Waiting for expert's opinions on this tiny gadget. Cheers.


----------



## LepakVT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never heard a PA2v2, but based on comments I have seen, and my positive experience with the 0HA, I'd probably go with that, unless you can stretch your budget to the $149 mSeed Spirit._

 


 $149 is a bit too much of a stretch for me. The highest I'll probably be able to go is around $100. I think I may be going with the iBasso T2.


----------



## soloz2

I wasn't impressed with the pa2v2. it was too bassy for me.


----------



## jamato8

For the money the iBasso T2 is a very enjoyable listen. The price is below what you would normally get in listening quality, in my opinion and the size and looks are great.


----------



## LepakVT

The PA2v2 being bassy shouldn't be a problem for me. I like a good amount of bass. I'm getting MS-1s and Gary told me that many people like the increased bass with the PA2v2 with their MS-1s.

 Is the ibasso T2 worth the extra $50 over the PA2v2? Just keep in mind that I'm used to using my ipod stock earbuds for pretty much everything I listen to - so anything is going to be an improvement.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the money the iBasso T2 is a very enjoyable listen. The price is below what you would normally get in listening quality, in my opinion and the size and looks are great._

 

I agree that it sets a value point for this sound quality for one on batteries.


----------



## LepakVT

okay, I think I've changed my mind once again...

 I've narrowed it down between the $60 PA2v2 and the $79 minibox-d

 For $20 extra, is the minibox-d a good choice?


----------



## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LepakVT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay, I think I've changed my mind once again...

 I've narrowed it down between the $60 PA2v2 and the $79 minibox-d

 For $20 extra, is the minibox-d a good choice?_

 

buy used, pa2v2 can be had around $40


----------



## JadeEast

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LepakVT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I'm used to using my ipod stock earbuds for pretty much everything I listen to - so anything is going to be an improvement._

 

I hope you are getting new phones as well as an amp and a line out,
 otherwise you're probably just going to experience what you've been
 listening to.... just louder.


----------



## LepakVT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JadeEast* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope you are getting new phones as well as an amp and a line out,
 otherwise you're probably just going to experience what you've been
 listening to.... just louder._

 

I sure am. Most likely getting MS-1 (might get something a little better), an iBasso T2, and a TURBO line out.


----------



## Cankin

Any thoughts on uAMP107 from our new sponsor yet?


----------



## Skylab

Haven't seen that - which sponsor sells it?


----------



## Cankin

http://microshar.org/

 It's on the main page of this site, scroll down and you'll see it....

 somebody forgot to put their link on the right panel??


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LepakVT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$149 is a bit too much of a stretch for me. The highest I'll probably be able to go is around $100. I think I may be going with the iBasso T2._

 

My suggestion, if it is no hurry to you, save more money to invest a good amp in one shot. Those good portable amp usually costs more than US$170. It is certainly a few are cheaper but with some compromising in some areas.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK I now have about 60 hours on my Meier MOVE, and it's improved some from cold (where it already sounded very good). Full review to come soon, but this amp is excellent. Much like other Meier amps, it features a smooth yet detailed sound, but it's a little warmer like the Opera is. Still very transparent, clean, and very musical. It's going to fare very well._

 

Yeah, even just during the initial run-in at first 30-40 hours, the Corda Move has already defeat my Xenos X1HA-EPC, and seems a little better than the Tomahawk especially when using big cans like DT880. The difference isn't significant when using IEM.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cankin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://microshar.org/

 It's on the main page of this site, scroll down and you'll see it....

 somebody forgot to put their link on the right panel??_

 

Oh yeah, I have seen those on EBay. No real interest so far in buying one, though...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, even just during the initial run-in at first 30-40 hours, the Corda Move has already defeat my Xenos X1HA-EPC, and seems a little better than the Tomahawk especially when using big cans like DT880. The difference isn't significant when using IEM._

 

I'm not surprised to see you say this. It's quite likely that the MOVE is the best portable amp I currently own (I have sold my PRII and SR71).


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not surprised to see you say this. It's quite likely that the MOVE is the best portable amp I currently own (I have sold my PRII and SR71)._

 

Oh, you sold the PRII, one of the best you have ranked. A little surprise.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, you sold the PRII, one of the best you have ranked. A little surprise._

 

Two reasons. One, it's battery life (less than 8 hours, and the really long charge time) started to bug me. Two, I am making way for the Lisa III.


----------



## trose49

[size=large]Over 90,000 views[/size]

 [size=medium]AMAZING![/size]

*Is this the largest amount of views ever?*


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trose49* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=large]Over 90,000 views[/size]

 [size=medium]AMAZING![/size]

*Is this the largest amount of views ever?*_

 

This thread has more views. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=194441


----------



## sghound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trose49* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=large]Over 90,000 views[/size]

 [size=medium]AMAZING![/size]

*Is this the largest amount of views ever?*_

 


 hardly. HEED rocks.


----------



## amitz

Awesome thread, Skylab! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You help me a lot in my search for an amp


----------



## itsborken

Skylab,

 You've probably answered this before but I'm to lazy to dig through 700 odd posts to find the answer. When you look at the top 5 as a group, the grades are pretty close. About how much SQ difference is there really between 1st and 5th place--is there a lot of difference or are they all pretty close and it comes down to splitting hairs to arrive at the ranking?

 Thanks as always.


----------



## Skylab

There are differences between the top 5, of course, but they all are incredibly satisfying amps, and I recommend each of them heartily. The differences are just that, differences - not so much one or the other is BETTER.


----------



## slwiser

There remains at least two recent portable high end amps (the Headamp AE-2 and Xin Reference) that you have yet to include and possibly a third which I consider a value leader and that is the iBasso T2. The first two of these could land in the top five and for myself one in particular would land in the top position. Except for maybe their sound may not be what you enjoy and therefore you would drop them down a bit in your listing for that.

 Great work but you know "there is no end in doing right."


----------



## rhymesgalore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There remains at least two recent portable high end amps (the Headamp AE-2 and Xin Reference) that you have yet to include_

 

You could loan him your Xin Reference, if you want it to be in that review....


----------



## Skylab

Yup! I will eventually get to review an AE-2, whenever head-amp sends it to the person who is loaning it to me. And I'd be happy to review a reference when someone wants to loan me one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a T2 in my possession and will be reviewing it very soon.


----------



## soloz2

I loaned skylab one of my amps and he took very good care of it, paid shipping both ways too. Don't hesitate to let him borrow an amp... especially if it's a Xin Reference


----------



## mrarroyo

The Reference is still in an slight state of flux. So I would wait until the desing is pretty much finalized (3 to 4 weeks). Yes I know Dr. Xin will come up with a tweak later but it will be a tweak of a finished product.

 Also someone could send Skylab a TTVJ Millet.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Reference is still in an slight state of flux. So I would wait until the desing is pretty much finalized (3 to 4 weeks). Yes I know Dr. Xin will come up with a tweak later but it will be a tweak of a finished product.

 Also someone could send Skylab a TTVJ Millet._

 

Oh yeah, I do NOT want to review the Xin Reference until it is at least temporarily done


----------



## toopeach

Skylab, do your review reflect so-called "burn-in" effect or are they kind of "out-of-the box" sound?


----------



## Skylab

All of my reviews are based on 100 hours of burn in, although occasionally I have done an update after even more burn in if asked. But normally I burn in 100 hours, then I review.

 Which means my MOVE should be just about ready


----------



## ericwatson

not to get off topick guys but have you check out ebay to day I found a rsa tomahawk up for auction $225.00 is this a good deal


----------



## Onizuka-gto

Skylab, was wondering if you have plans to review the MiniBox-E as well?

 I think it's a good idea to test it, as the size and weight put it against the mSpirit/SuperMicro/ibasso range.

 One thing that i'm curious about that while the top 5 of your list are assessed upon the data of good sound, you have yet to comment on the size and weight of them, as they do look abit bulky for me to carry in my back/shirt/trouser pocket or laptop bag (soft briefcase).

 Which i would of though would be at leased one factor that would be important to "portable" amps.

 Personally the reason I want a portable amp is how long i can carry it about before i experience fratigue. The XinSuperMini dimension and reviewed quality sounds brilliant, but the price puts me off....

 So i will be looking forward to the iBasso T2 review, and wishfully hope that you do the MiniBox-E as well. 

 Thanks Skylab, the AmpGod Tester!


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Onizuka-gto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ One thing that i'm curious about that while the top 5 of your list are assessed upon the data of good sound, you have yet to comment on the size and weight of them, as they do look abit bulky for me to carry in my back/shirt/trouser pocket or laptop bag (soft briefcase).

 Which i would of though would be at leased one factor that would be important to "portable" amps._

 

I swear Skylab, I didn't pay this guy


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Onizuka-gto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, was wondering if you have plans to review the MiniBox-E as well?

 I think it's a good idea to test it, as the size and weight put it against the mSpirit/SuperMicro/ibasso range.

 One thing that i'm curious about that while the top 5 of your list are assessed upon the data of good sound, you have yet to comment on the size and weight of them, as they do look abit bulky for me to carry in my back/shirt/trouser pocket or laptop bag (soft briefcase).

 Which i would of though would be at leased one factor that would be important to "portable" amps.

 Personally the reason I want a portable amp is how long i can carry it about before i experience fratigue. The XinSuperMini dimension and reviewed quality sounds brilliant, but the price puts me off....

 So i will be looking forward to the iBasso T2 review, and wishfully hope that you do the MiniBox-E as well. 

 Thanks Skylab, the AmpGod Tester! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

A couple people have asked me about this. Yes, my rankings are about SQ only. My belief is people can make their own assessment about portability, since it will effect different people differently. I don't mind toting around a big amp most of the time, but I will always keep the RSA Tomahawk because of it's combination of excellent size and sound.

 Aso for the Mini-box E, someone would have to loan it to me. I am not buying any more amps just to test. This Review cost me hundreds of dollars to do. I was able to sell most of the amps I bought for it at a modest loss only (20-25%), but still, I am now only reviewing loaners, or amps I WANT to buy, like the Meier MOVE.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dexter Morgan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I swear Skylab, I didn't pay this guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL! Sure, sure


----------



## Onizuka-gto

ah. you do have a point. i suppose it is all a matter of opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh, any progress on the iBasso T2? i read somewhere in this thread that someone was sending it to you to review...? or have you already done so?

 as for being paid to say such praises...nevar.....its not like losing money to Ampifus-Buyines-Upgraditus like most users here seem to be infected with, i mean i don't even own an amp..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (cash his cheque with Dexter Morgan)

 ....yet


----------



## Dagur

Please post your review of the Move cause as soon as you do I think I'm buying it


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dagur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please post your review of the Move cause as soon as you do I think I'm buying it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dagur, you don't need to wait for Skylab's review, because he hints in another thread that this is one of the best portable amps. I have one too, and like the MOVE very much. It is better than the Tomahawk I think, while MOVE reproduces more warmth and touching sound, without compromise any details. You wouldn't regret to get it.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dagur, you don't need to wait for Skylab's review, because he hints in another thread that this is one of the best portable amps. I have one too, and like the MOVE very much. It is better than the Tomahawk I think, while MOVE reproduces more warmth and touching sound, without compromise any details. You wouldn't regret to get it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Porta Corda MkIII is IMO superior to the Tomahawk, so the Move being also better does not surprise me.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, here is my preview review of the MOVE: terrific amp, better than it should be for the money, is going to be my main portable amp going forward.


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, here is my preview review of the MOVE: terrific amp, better than it should be for the money, is going to be my main portable amp going forward._

 

That's not a preview or a review it's a 10 second commercial. Gives us a little more sky. How about compared to my beloved hornet?


----------



## rwest1389

well now youve done it i couldnt resist. i got a MOVE on the way.


----------



## Skylab

OK, it's very transparent; mids are just a shade on the warm side of neutral; punchy, tight, extended bass; clear, airy, extended treble. It makes music really well. Listening to it right now with RP21's, and it's shamefully good sound.


----------



## Onizuka-gto

is there any links to this so called "move" amp?

 It's all nice that you find it great, but it doesn't mean anything to me, if i don't even know whats it look likes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Aha! found the Amp! i mean really, you lot made my life so much difficult when all you mention is "MOVE" so much rubbish pops up for "MOVE Amp" on google..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but wow.... DAC! been looking for one for my laptop.....so...tempting.....but its not the most prettiest thing on the stage...might have to make a better custom housing for it....

 and the dollar payment is 20GBP cheaper then the Euro...

 $$$ FTW!


----------



## rwest1389

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Onizuka-gto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there any links to this so called "move" amp?

 It's all nice that you find it great, but it doesn't mean anything to me, if i don't even know whats it look likes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/move.htm

 edit: also check this out:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245600


----------



## klemchang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, it's very transparent; mids are just a shade on the warm side of neutral; punchy, tight, extended bass; clear, airy, extended treble. It makes music really well. Listening to it right now with RP21's, and it's shamefully good sound._

 

Skylab, I hate to say this. But, waiting for your review of Corda MOVE reminds me of waiting for Jan to ship my Corda MOVE- both made me feel painful...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Can't wait to read your review...


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Onizuka-gto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but its not the most prettiest thing on the stage...might have to make a better custom housing for it...._

 

You may change your mind when you have your hands on it. It is a nice build.


----------



## tek

skylab, how the does the move compares to the porta corda? thanks in advance


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rwest1389* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well now youve done it i couldnt resist. i got a MOVE on the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My oh my -- there are a goodly number of very impressionable, easily swayed members. A trigger-happy lot. "Boys and their toys" -- fun, fun, fun.

 I'd love to hear the Move, but I never cared for the PortaCordas. I found the sound to be somewhat unnatural to my personal tastes. I'll have to hunt down a Move to audition.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, how the does the move compares to the porta corda? thanks in advance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This has been mentioned in this thread
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245600


----------



## wakeride74

Skylab - Will the Lisa III Expedition be added to this list? Or I guess a better question would be are you including "transportables" or keeping it limited to the "pocket" sized portables?


----------



## Pibborando

Could you tell me which you'd rather go for: the mSeed Spirit or the Storm ST-B4? (assuming they're the same price)

 I like the looks of the Storm a lot, and from your review it must sound pretty good. The Spirit seems like it might be "smoother" but it doesn't look as good and having to take off the rear panel to plug it into AC is... odd.


----------



## kamenal

Hoping for Xin reference but frustrated by a waiting time. Will MOVE work well with AKG K701/501? Thanks.


----------



## oicdn

I wonder how this stacks up against a Hornet and XP...I guess we'll see


----------



## slwiser

I actually expect the Move to best the Hornet and because they are slightly newer design. Of course their USB interface will help their flexibility. I really can't see it beating out the Reference unless we are moving into a new era where the best small portables can match mid-range home units. Of course how each amp is configured to sound is an issue with each of these as to whether that sound will be preferred by anyone.


----------



## Onizuka-gto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pibborando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you tell me which you'd rather go for: the mSeed Spirit or the Storm ST-B4? (assuming they're the same price)

 I like the looks of the Storm a lot, and from your review it must sound pretty good. The Spirit seems like it might be "smoother" but it doesn't look as good and having to take off the rear panel to plug it into AC is... odd._

 


 yeah, i know what you mean, i personal would go for the Storm.

 Plus you can get a good value for it from the ebay seller, s/he is will to haggle down the price for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which if you can get it at the same price as the mseed, is a good deal.


----------



## ataraxia

I'm kicking myself right now because I told myself yesterday that I would wait for a proper review from Skylab before pulling the trigger on this MOVE, but this thread has led me on too much and I just pulled the trigger.

 Hopefully it's everything that the amp is made out to be.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ataraxia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just pulled the trigger.

 Hopefully it's everything that the amp is made out to be._

 

I don't think you will be disappointed. Burn it in and let us know what you think. If you are happy with it get the external regulated 12vdc power supply, it makes it even better.


----------



## Pibborando

Ok. I sent jasmine_chine an offer of $150 for the Storm. I've gotten back a counter offer of $180, saying that's the lowest it'll go for. Should I take it? Or is the Spirit a better deal?

 edit: The Headphonia is also on eBay now. Is that worth going for? If so, how high is the highest I should bid. What would be a GREAT deal?


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pibborando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: The Headphonia is also on eBay now. Is that worth going for? If so, how high is the highest I should bid. What would be a GREAT deal?_

 

Search the headphone amp forum for Headphonia, read what was written and decide if you want to reward him with your business. I realize this is somewhat 'flavored verbage' but you should make your own decision.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - Will the Lisa III Expedition be added to this list? Or I guess a better question would be are you including "transportables" or keeping it limited to the "pocket" sized portables?_

 

I will include the LISA when I get mine.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pibborando* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you tell me which you'd rather go for: the mSeed Spirit or the Storm ST-B4? (assuming they're the same price)

 I like the looks of the Storm a lot, and from your review it must sound pretty good. The Spirit seems like it might be "smoother" but it doesn't look as good and having to take off the rear panel to plug it into AC is... odd._

 

Yup, the Spirit is a little warmer and smoother, and as such, I prefer it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ataraxia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm kicking myself right now because I told myself yesterday that I would wait for a proper review from Skylab before pulling the trigger on this MOVE, but this thread has led me on too much and I just pulled the trigger.

 Hopefully it's everything that the amp is made out to be._

 

I sure think it is!

 Guys I am on vacation with the family, no time for amp reviewing right now. Sorry!


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Guys I am on vacation with the family, no time for amp reviewing right now. Sorry! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Enjoy your vacation Skylab....and don't look around here until you get back.

 I was on vacation last week and when on vacation I am on here almost all the time causing all types of misplaced word mischief...


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! Sadly, I am on my way home. I haven't been on head-fi much the last 5 days for that reason, just at night after the wife and kids went to sleep, if I could stay awake


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! Sadly, I am on my way home. I haven't been on head-fi much the last 5 days for that reason, just at night after the wife and kids went to sleep, if I could stay awake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hope you have a happy vacation, sometimes travel with family is a nightmare.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hope you have a happy vacation, sometimes travel with family is a nightmare.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Specially if it is with your own familiy!


----------



## Computerstud

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Specially if it is with your own familiy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Or your mistress family. The annoying phone calls and the constant "I'm in a meeting honey" lie while you are testing out your viagra.


----------



## Yuk_Fai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Computerstud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or your mistress family. The annoying phone calls and the constant "I'm in a meeting honey" lie while you are testing out your viagra._


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Computerstud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or your mistress family. The annoying phone calls and the constant "I'm in a meeting honey" lie while you are testing out your viagra._

 

I hear you brother but what can we do but endure ...


----------



## noseallinit

Skylab, maybe once the HeadRoom Micro Portable is released you can find a way to put it into your reviews. with 19 reviews not even the current MicroAmp is in there, why? have you got anything against HeadRoom? would you be biased at all in a review? 

 it would be nice to see both the MicroStack and the soon to be released MicroAmp Portable in your line up of reviews. 

 looking forward to hearing your review on the Corda Move! 

 hope your vaction will be a good one!


----------



## Iced

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *noseallinit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, maybe once the HeadRoom Micro Portable is released you can find a way to put it into your reviews. with 19 reviews not even the current MicroAmp is in there, why? have you got anything against HeadRoom? would you be biased at all in a review? 

 it would be nice to see both the MicroStack and the soon to be released MicroAmp Portable in your line up of reviews. 

 looking forward to hearing your review on the Corda Move! 

 hope your vaction will be a good one!_

 

Maybe you can send your microamp to skylab for him to review it and help this big database to grow instead of asking him to buy it


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Iced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you can send your microamp to skylab for him to review it and help this big database to grow instead of asking him to buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great idea


----------



## Pibborando

Well, I jumped on a Headamp AE-1 amp being sold here by Asr. $175 shipped. I'm very excited. My first headphone amp!

 You can all tell me now how much better it's gonna sound with my DT 880's than the headphone out on my Denon pre-amp. Right... ?


----------



## slwiser

^Your will love the bit of extra smoothness it will bring to the detail of the DT880s. Enjoy the music.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Computerstud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or your mistress family. The annoying phone calls and the constant "I'm in a meeting honey" lie while you are testing out your viagra._

 

You don't need to write the word "family".


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Iced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you can send your microamp to skylab for him to review it and help this big database to grow instead of asking him to buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

He said that he has no intension to buy it if just for reviewing.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He said that he has no intension to buy it if just for reviewing._

 

Right. Sorry, but the days of my buying amps just to review them are over. That got expensive fast. I'm more than willing to review amps that either their makers or head-fiers send me, but otherwise I have to actually want to buy the amp before I will buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MOVE review is almost done, just need the comparative listening with the Tomahawk.


----------



## sghound

and we wait with bated breath.


----------



## klemchang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MOVE review is almost done, just need the comparative listening with the Tomahawk._

 

Excellent. Really looking forward to it.


----------



## Caution

Yay It's nearly here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right. Sorry, but the days of my buying amps just to review them are over. That got expensive fast. I'm more than willing to review amps that either their makers or head-fiers send me, but otherwise I have to actually want to buy the amp before I will buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 MOVE review is almost done, just need the comparative listening with the Tomahawk._

 

You make a wise decision; there are many people buy and sell their devices just for freshness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I believe this part of review will introduce some ripples, because so many Tomahawk fans and users here.


----------



## Computerstud

Skylab, Give us your unbiased opinion of the move vs the Tomahawk regardless of the mass fans of the RSA on this forum. How's the progress on the ibasso T2? Alot of us are dying to hear what you think.


----------



## kamenal

x2 what computerstud said. I am in the same situation. Thanks.


----------



## GUNS

I'm also pretty interested to hear what you have to say about the Ibasso T2.


----------



## noseallinit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Iced* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you can send your microamp to skylab for him to review it and help this big database to grow instead of asking him to buy it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

do you see me asking him to buy it anywhere in me post? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I might be willing to send Skylab me MicroStack to review if he would be willing to send me one of his amps for me to check out and to have something to use while he has my only headphone amp. actually Iced maybe even you get a headphone amp that I would like to listen to that you can loan me while Skylab has mine. 

 if not maybe it might be best if we can talk to Tyll and see if he would be willing to send Skylab the current MicroStack or soon to be released Micro Portable to review. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *noseallinit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, maybe once the HeadRoom Micro Portable is released you can find a way to put it into your reviews. with 19 reviews not even the current MicroAmp is in there, why? have you got anything against HeadRoom? would you be biased at all in a review? 

 it would be nice to see both the MicroStack and the soon to be released MicroAmp Portable in your line up of reviews. 

 looking forward to hearing your review on the Corda Move! 

 hope your vaction will be a good one!_


----------



## Onizuka-gto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GUNS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also pretty interested to hear what you have to say about the Ibasso T2._

 

me too!






 us junior audiophile can only look forward to the more affordable amps, as we can barely comprehend your fangle tomahawk, our ears have yet teh skillz.


----------



## Skylab

I just added what follows to the review. The iBasso T2 will be next. It needs a little more break-in.

*Update 7/9/07*

*> Meier Audio MOVE *

 http://www.meier-audio.de

 I have always liked Meier amps, so I was anxious to get my hands on a MOVE. My main beef with the Porta Corda was it's very DIY looks. It sounded very good (although I did find it slightly lean).

 After breaking in the MOVE for 100 hours, I listened to it a LOT before writing this - much more so than many other amps I have reviewed. I used a bunch of different headphones. Why? I wanted to be sure of what I was going to say, because there will be some people who are going to get their panties in a wad about this review.

 I think the Meier MOVE is a phenomenal headphone amp. Stunningly good. Better than any amp in this review aside from the Larocco PRII, and in some ways better than it. It combines a natural, warm sound with incredible detail, an outstanding soundstage, and very extended frequency extremes. It's also built like a tank, is very well featured, and is bargain priced. It's impossible not to recommend with great enthusiasm.

*Build Quality:* A: Awesome metal case. I'm certain it could survive being thrown against a wall at high velocity, although it's so pretty you wouldn't want to. I'd give it an A+ except for one thing - the volume knob, while attractive, is very difficult to grip, and thus hard to turn. It's my one complaint about this amp.
*Treble:* A+: Treble is amazingly clear. Smooth, open, liquid, and detailed ZERO grain. Highly transparent, and neutral. Very much like other Meier amps. Great extension and air. I doubt there has ever been a portable amp with better treble than this.
*Midrange:* A: Beautiful, wide open sound. Inviting, clean, open, and engaging. Grain-free. Just gorgeous.
*Bass: * A+: Excels in pitch, attach, and definition. Also punchy as heck. ZERO bloat or boom, but great weight.
*Neutrality:* A: There are simply no issues here - very, very impressive. 
*Soundstaging:* A: soundstage width is excellent, depth is just short of the best. Image specificity is very good. The soundstage is top-shelf.
*Transparency:* A: This is a strong suit to be sure – all Meier amps I have ever heard are jaw-droppingly transparent, and the MOVE is no exception. I was prepared for it not to be, since there was some talk that the choice of op-amp wasn't going to mean a transparent sound. That isn't the case. It's very transparent. 

 So now we have a terrific Meier portable amp that also looks nice. I preferred the sound in high current but low gain mode. Basically noiseless in this mode. Dynamic, lush, detailed - it's hard not to gush. I listened over and over again to it to be sure - I am sure. The MOVE is the best bargain in portable headphone amps right now on the market, based on all that I have heard.


----------



## kamenal

Thank you very much for your review. I guess, i will have to buy it now, since the Tomahawk is, apparently, similar in quality (yes?), but costs more. And another thing, will the Move adequately drive the K501/701? Thank you again.


----------



## trose49

Ok skylab all I want to know is how much was the check? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kidding of course!! Great review SKY I am tempted.


----------



## cooperpwc

Incredibly rude, Trose.

 I'm nonetheless shocked. I didn't think that MOVE would be that good.

 Skylab, I think that MOVE would undoubtedly do a great job with Darths. Did you test the Move with 600 ohm Beyers? Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamenal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much for your review. I guess, i will have to buy it now, since the Tomahawk is, apparently, similar in quality (yes?), but costs more. And another thing, will the Move adequately drive the K501/701? Thank you again._

 

I can't see why not. It has plenty of gain in high gain mode, and plenty of current in high-current mode.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trose49* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok skylab all I want to know is how mucvh was the check?_

 

Ha ha. As of this moment, Jan has no idea I was even going to review the MOVE.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incredibly rude, Trose.

 I'm nonetheless shocked. I didn't think that MOVE would be that good.

 Skylab, I think that MOVE would undoubtedly do a great job with Darths. Did you test the Move with 600 ohm Beyers? Thanks!_

 

The MOVE had no trouble with the 600 ohm Beyers. Sounded excellent.

 I was also surprised. I didn't think the MOVE would be that good, either. Even I let the op-amp police place a doubt in my mind that the AD8610 would sound good. But I listen to the AMP, not the specs, hype, or anti-hype. The pair of AD8610's in the MOVE do their job in Jan's circuit very well.


----------



## cooperpwc

Yah, those police got to me too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The fact that Meier is also reputed to have the world's best crossfeed makes it almost impossible not to buy this. I take it that you liked the crossfeed (knowing that you are a big crossfeed fan)?


----------



## klemchang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm nonetheless shocked. I didn't think that MOVE would be that good._

 

It's somewhat difficult for me to say so because it might cause difficulty in trading my Prehead mk1. Anyways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 After I received the MOVE, I like to listen to it much more than my Prehead mk1 (for classical chamber music, piano, jazz (cool and modal)). Please do not get me wrong. I do not mean MOVE is better than Prehead. Prehead still has much more power/much better sound stage than MOVE. But, at least for me, the sound signature of MOVE is more preferable than Prehead- warm and smooth. I'd like to suggest people who thought Meier's amp cold-analytical-thin to give MOVE an audition. The New Meier Sound is truly different.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yah, those police got to me too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The fact that Meier is also reputed to have the world's best crossfeed makes it almost impossible not to buy this. I take it that you liked the crossfeed (knowing that you are a big crossfeed fan)?_

 

OH YEAH. The crossfeed is excellent on the MOVE. Really dig it.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *klemchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After I received the MOVE, I like to listen to it much more than my Prehead mk1 (for classical chamber music, piano, jazz (cool and modal)). ...But, at least for me, the sound signature of MOVE is more preferable than Prehead- warm and smooth._

 

That's a remarkable statement, klemchang, and supports what Skylab was suggesting. Jan is clearly an artist of electronics.


----------



## freeone-j

SKYLAB, great review. What can I say but thanks for all of your time and contributions to our community. I know it's the love of the music and your opinion on the equipment, but a lot of us have come to rely on your reviews.I got to say I was not expecting this type of definitive statement about the MOVE, "You are a brave man!"


----------



## GreatDane

Thanks for that Move review Rob. 

 Now I want one even more...could this replace my Porta Corda??? -seems like a good possibility. This amp with its DAC and crossfeed makes it one heck of a deal.


----------



## amitz

Thanks a lot for the great review! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You are doing a great job with those reviews.


----------



## oicdn

So would you say it has more bass punch and attack than a Hornet/TH/SR71? i.e. would this be a bass-lovers amp?

 Sounds like this amp may be my end all solution if so, because it also has a DAC....


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that Move review Rob. 

 Now I want one even more...could this replace my Porta Corda??? -seems like a good possibility. This amp with its DAC and crossfeed makes it one heck of a deal._

 

The DAC makes it an even bigger bargain, no doubt! I did not test the DAC yet, but I will at some point I'm sure. But the amp would be a bargain without the DAC at the $235 asking price, IMO.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So would you say it has more bass punch and attack than a Hornet/TH/SR71? i.e. would this be a bass-lovers amp?_

 

YES. It does. This was the biggest surprise for me in some ways. It made bass through the Senn HD25-1's the most satisfying I have ever heard, short of goosing it up with the Larocco's bass boost. Definitely great bass.


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incredibly rude, Trose.

 I'm nonetheless shocked. I didn't think that MOVE would be that good.

 Skylab, I think that MOVE would undoubtedly do a great job with Darths. Did you test the Move with 600 ohm Beyers? Thanks!_

 

It was a joke. Post edited to reflect humor!!! GEEZ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you think I would truely crap on a Skylab thread. Im not that bad am I?


----------



## apnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trose49* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was a joke. Post edited to reflect humor!!! GEEZ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you think I would truely crap on a Skylab thread. Im not that bad am I?_

 


 Well, your avatar is the grinch....


----------



## Skylab

I knew it was a joke, Trose. No worries. Thing is, I'm sure some people will accuse me of some sort of weird bias. When I don't like an amp, some people will say I am biased. When I do like one, some people will say I am biased. That's just how it goes. Fortunately, I don't care - I call them like I hear them. Since people all have different listening preferences, plenty of people will feel differently. That's fine - they can post their own reviews


----------



## apnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I knew it was a joke, Trose. No worries. Thing is, I'm sure some people will accuse me of some sort of weird bias. When I don't like an amp, some people will say I am biased. When I do like one, some people will say I am biased. That's just how it goes. Fortunately, I don't care - I call them like I hear them. Since people all have different listening preferences, plenty of people will feel differently. That's fine - they can post their own reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Quit being biased about not being biased!


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *apnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, your avatar is the grinch....








_

 

DARTH GRINCH to U..........!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously I was kidding.

 I have chatted with Sky recently and I really respect what he offers to Head-Fi. I dont see many people purchasing the amount of gear he does for the reviews and probably takes a bit of a loss all for the good of the gang.

 Hats off Sky. We live vicariously through you!


----------



## shasty

i'm pretty sure jan saw that the move was shipping to skylab
 and proceeded to change out everything except the enclosure of the amp

 ...kidding ofcourse


----------



## rwest1389

gah my MOVE has eta of another 6 days. 

 you just made the next week of my life a LOT harder. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 But great review!!!


----------



## oicdn

Dang...so it's only surpassed in bass from a LaRocco? Holy Crap. That's alot of bass.

 I'm gonna send you a PM...so I don't clutter up this thread...


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I knew it was a joke, Trose. No worries. Thing is, I'm sure some people will accuse me of some sort of weird bias. When I don't like an amp, some people will say I am biased. When I do like one, some people will say I am biased. That's just how it goes. Fortunately, I don't care - I call them like I hear them. Since people all have different listening preferences, plenty of people will feel differently. That's fine - they can post their own reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will be very interested in your opinion of the DAC. I am putting together an APTV set-up (wonder where I got that idea?)

 Interested if the DAC would be worth intergrating in this.

 Let me know pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!


----------



## cooperpwc

No problem, Trose. I know that your heart is pure.


----------



## Onizuka-gto

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I knew it was a joke, Trose. No worries. Thing is, I'm sure some people will accuse me of some sort of weird bias. When I don't like an amp, some people will say I am biased. When I do like one, some people will say I am biased. That's just how it goes. Fortunately, I don't care - I call them like I hear them. Since people all have different listening preferences, plenty of people will feel differently. That's fine - they can post their own reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great review skylab! just a question, I heard the MOVE has a USB DAC, (unless im mistaken) did you check out how well this works?

 If you did, do you think this is a good DAC to have, compared to others?


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, Trose. I know that your heart is pure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Damn right YOU DO!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Onizuka-gto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review skylab! just a question, I heard the MOVE has a USB DAC, (unless im mistaken) did you check out how well this works?

 If you did, do you think this is a good DAC to have, compared to others?




_

 

Did not listen to the DAC yet. Will at some point.


----------



## Petyot

Skylab,

 Thank you very much for your contribution to this community. I bought the Xenos 1HA-EPC after reading your review and I am VERY happy with it. I guess that like everybody else, I will have to try this one...

 Thanks again.

 Pierre


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just added what follows to the review. The iBasso T2 will be next. It needs a little more break-in.

*Update 7/9/07*

*> Meier Audio MOVE *

 I_

 

Nice, accurate review Skylab (which is no surprise). Thanks.


----------



## noseallinit

thanks for the review Skylab! I'd like to hear the Corda Move jewel meself since Meier is one of the few amp builders I have wanted to purchase products from. including RSA and Larocco but HeadRooms products really catch my attention. even more so with the new line of Micro and Desktop Amps coming out this year and talk of a future revision in the Desktop Amp. 

 seems there has been plenty interest in a HR Micro review posted in this thread, including oppurtunity. hopefully it will make the grade one day including the Micro Portable.

 thx again!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spoon Wrangler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suggest you review the HeadAmp AE-2 and Headroom Micro Amp, just to be thorough. I'd like to see where both of those stand compared to the others. Otherwise, this is an amazing review!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am hoping for an AE-2 loaner soon, and would welcome a loaner Headroom Micro-amp - anyone willing? These amps are too expensive for me to buy them just to review them, since I am not in the market for a portable amp for my own use anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My offer still stands for the loan on my Micro Amp (2006 desktop module/300 hours+) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...if nobody else steps up.

*[size=medium]But you ain't gettin' my AE-2[/size]*



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GreatDane has kindly offered his Microamp for me to review, in a few weeks when the decks clear a little I will do so, thanks to him. I am expecting a Go-Vibe 6 soon thanks to another head-fier's generous loan._


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YES. It does. This was the biggest surprise for me in some ways. It made bass through the Senn HD25-1's the most satisfying I have ever heard, short of goosing it up with the Larocco's bass boost. Definitely great bass._

 

More bass impact than a Hornet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 my ears just perked up and I may have to try my first Meier amp. Are these stocked and shipping yet?


----------



## rwest1389

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More bass impact than a Hornet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 my ears just perked up and I may have to try my first Meier amp. Are these stocked and shipping yet?_

 

yep
 email him and he'll ship it in the next day. said about 10 days to ship to US


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rwest1389* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yep
 email him and he'll ship it in the next day. said about 10 days to ship to US_

 

Are there any other shipping options? 10 days ouch!


----------



## rwest1389

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trose49* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any other shipping options? 10 days ouch!_

 

Well in the price of 235 Jan includes shipping, but I think he said that you can work out a price for faster shipping. He has great customer service so just email him with any questions.


----------



## wakeride74

TTVJ has them on his site but I have no idea if they are actually in stock.

 Damn you Skylab! I still have to pay for my Lisa!


----------



## Caution

Sweet review skylab 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looks like the move will be my next amp


----------



## bigizzy75

Great Review Skylab,

 But....

 1) Is the MOVE just as dead quite as the Hornet or Tomahawk?

 2) And is the sound quality you tested, was is it tested with the 9V battery or when it was plugged in to tne wall?

 3) And when it was plugged in to the wall, did any noise show up in the sound quality?


 Thanks in Advance,

 bigizzy75


----------



## ElDanno

Great review Sky.

 The Corda Move indeed is a great little amp. 

 I can't say too much on how it sounds compared with others with as much authority as you, but it does sound good to these ears. There is definately enough detail there too with the AD8610.


----------



## V-Duh

Dr. Skylab,
 Thanks a whole bunch for the MOVE review!
 In the same vein as bigizzy75's questions, I'd like to know if this amp is as quiet with sensitive IEMs as the TH & Hornet.
 Thx!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigizzy75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great Review Skylab,

 But....

 1) Is the MOVE just as dead quite as the Hornet or Tomahawk?

 2) And is the sound quality you tested, was is it tested with the 9V battery or when it was plugged in to tne wall?

 3) And when it was plugged in to the wall, did any noise show up in the sound quality?


 Thanks in Advance,

 bigizzy75_


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Build Quality:* A: Awesome metal case. I'm certain it could survive being thrown against a wall at high velocity, although it's so pretty you wouldn't want to. I'd give it an A+ except for one thing - the volume knob, while attractive, is very difficult to grip, and thus hard to turn. It's my one complaint about this amp._

 


 Very great review, can't agree more what you described the product. However, for the knob issue, I have discussed with Dr. Meier, while he told me he tried his best to protect the knob not to be turn louder accidentally harmful both ears and headphones. To apply this philosophy, not only he choose to harden the volume knob, but also make the phone jack as much closer as possible. I sincerely appreciated Jan's every effort, even this may not be treasured by everyone.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigizzy75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 1) Is the MOVE just as dead quite as the Hornet or Tomahawk?

 2) And is the sound quality you tested, was is it tested with the 9V battery or when it was plugged in to tne wall?

 3) And when it was plugged in to the wall, did any noise show up in the sound quality?_

 

For the noise concern, I can say there is no difference with the battery and 12VDC from AC power. The MOVE is deadly quiet in either condition.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rwest1389* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gah my MOVE has eta of another 6 days. 

 you just made the next week of my life a LOT harder. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 But great review!!!_

 

Prepare for the 12VDC adapter and batteries.


----------



## Sieg9198

OMG the MOVE is hell of a temptation, build in DAC.......

 Skylab, you mentioned warm sound about the MOVE right?? Is it warmer than the hornet?? To me the hornet sounds really warm that it drastically changes how my e4 sounds.(not fully burned in yet though)


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Petyot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 Thank you very much for your contribution to this community. I bought the Xenos 1HA-EPC after reading your review and I am VERY happy with it. I guess that like everybody else, I will have to try this one...

 Thanks again.

 Pierre_

 

You might throw away the Xenos after having the MOVE.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, I would still keep the Tomahawk, but I don't see any reason why I need to keep the Xenos.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Thank you Skylab, your megapost is really making it easier for me to find a new amp, but also harder in some ways. I am now torn between the LaRocco, Move, and RSA Tomahawk.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigizzy75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great Review Skylab,

 But....

 1) Is the MOVE just as dead quite as the Hornet or Tomahawk?

 2) And is the sound quality you tested, was is it tested with the 9V battery or when it was plugged in to tne wall?

 3) And when it was plugged in to the wall, did any noise show up in the sound quality?


 Thanks in Advance,

 bigizzy75_

 

My testing was done 100% on battery, as has been the case with ALL of my testing in this mega-review. This is a PORTABLE amp review, after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But as for noise, the MOVE is ultra-quiet. Impressive in this regard.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sieg9198* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OMG the MOVE is hell of a temptation, build in DAC.......

 Skylab, you mentioned warm sound about the MOVE right?? Is it warmer than the hornet?? To me the hornet sounds really warm that it drastically changes how my e4 sounds.(not fully burned in yet though)_

 

It depends on your definition of warm. The Hornet and Tomahawk are a little warm in the upper mids. The MOVE is a little warm in the lower-mids/upper bass. I guess I preferred the latter. Neither of them, to me, are so warm as to be colored. Just a tiny bit warm of straight neutral.


----------



## trose49

2 questions sky

 I know you don't favour iems but can you try the move with e500's to see how quite it is and also the current/voltage settings any idea what these equate to in db gain settings?


----------



## Flyfreely

hi, skylab
 My friend made a portable amp, I think it is amazing compare to my several amps. But I don't have top class portable amps, so would you like to review it?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flyfreely* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, skylab
 My friend made a portable amp, I think it is amazing compare to my several amps. But I don't have top class portable amps, so would you like to review it?_

 

Thanks for the offer, but unless your friend plans to make his amp commercially available, there isn't any value in my reviewing it.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trose49* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 questions sky

 I know you don't favour iems but can you try the move with e500's to see how quite it is and also the current/voltage settings any idea what these equate to in db gain settings?_

 

OK I just tried it. With the E500's, in low gain mode, the MOVE is totally silent. No noise, no hiss. Sounded great.


----------



## Flyfreely

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the offer, but unless your friend plans to make his amp commercially available, there isn't any value in my reviewing it._

 

errr......
 Maybe he have a plan, but I don't know when it become commercial.
 I ask him to send one to you for review when he sell it, ok?


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


 1. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 1. Meier Audio MOVE
 2. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 6. Xin SuperMicro IV
 7. Headamp AE-1
 8. Portaphile V2^2
 9. Storm B-4
 10. mSeed Spirit
 11. iBasso P-1
 12. C&C XO
 13. Practical Devices XM4
 14. Go-Vibe 6
 15. Xtra X-1 Pro
 16. Xenos 0HA-REP
 16. iBasso T1
 17. Xtra X-1
 18. C&C Box V2
 19. Little Dot Micro+ 
 

I don't know how long ago the SR-71 came out (before I joined) but I have to say that I find it impressive that it still ranks in the top 5 of the Skylabs portable review given all the portable that have come and gone since.


----------



## terance

will this thread get locked once it reaches 100,000 posts?

 if so, someone needs to sticky it or something, it is a fantastic reference for portable amps

 thanks for a service to head-fi skylab


----------



## kamenal

Decision made! iBasso T2 + Etys ER4P for ultraportable travel and Meier Move +AKG K701 for home/transportable (sofa/hammock/lazyboy). Still comes to less than one Hornet. What do you think?


----------



## terance

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamenal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decision made! iBasso T2 + Etys ER4P for ultraportable travel and Meier Move +AKG K701 for home/transportable (sofa/hammock/lazyboy). Still comes to less than one Hornet. What do you think?_

 


 a fine choice, but what is the source?


----------



## kamenal

It is only 4G iPod. Can not do lossless - big classical library.


----------



## wgr73

I looked around, but could not find it....whats the battery life of the MOVE? I would be willing to try the MOVE, but I do need something with good battery life. The Tomahawk has 400 hours +. I may replace it if the battery life is good enough!


----------



## rwest1389

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamenal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decision made! iBasso T2 + Etys ER4P for ultraportable travel and Meier Move +AKG K701 for home/transportable (sofa/hammock/lazyboy). Still comes to less than one Hornet. What do you think?_

 

exact same as me except replace er4p with um1s and k701 with sr225s. I have a lineout from 5g ipod so I hope channel imbalance isnt an issue with t2, which i read it might be. Also read that "volume check" improves this even though i don't know what that does.


----------



## klemchang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I looked around, but could not find it....whats the battery life of the MOVE? I would be willing to try the MOVE, but I do need something with good battery life. The Tomahawk has 400 hours +. I may replace it if the battery life is good enough!_

 

100 hours for low current mode, and 40 hours for high current mode. Someone actually measured it and the actual time span is really close. Amazing!


----------



## Skylab

Good news, Tyll from Headroom will send me a Microamp Portable to review, when they are completed.


----------



## Onizuka-gto

woohoo!!

 can't wait!

 not only will i look forward t othe ibasso T2 reveiw, but the new one from Headroom!

 now, we just gotta wait for the Meiser HEADSIX to release for another mouthwatering review!


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news, Tyll from Headroom will send me a Microamp Portable to review, when they are completed._

 

Huge news!

 I also understand that to keep this consistent, you will likely be testing the analogue-in amp section. For those of us with a H120/140, the true test of this DAC/amp will be the optical in. Still it will be great to have an assessment of the amp section. The DAC is apparently the same as the current Micro DAC, i.e. excellent and probably at very least on par with the iMod.

 Look forward to the review.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Onizuka-gto* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_woohoo!!

 can't wait!

 not only will i look forward t othe ibasso T2 reveiw, but the new one from Headroom!

 now, we just gotta wait for the Meiser HEADSIX to release for another mouthwatering review! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Slow down there champ, I'm guessing there will be a couple more hits out of the park when Skylab gets to the AE-2 and Lisa III Expedition.

 The new Micro was one of the amps I was bummed about not hearing at the meet. There was a problem with the connection when I went to check it out and it wasn't working... or at least not with my iPod and ES2's


----------



## Skylab

I fully reviewed the Lisa III prototype in another thread. It isn't on this review until it's released, but if the released version sounds like the Prototype, it will be the new top dog, no question.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know how long ago the SR-71 came out (before I joined) but I have to say that I find it impressive that it still ranks in the top 5 of the Skylabs portable review given all the portable that have come and gone since._

 

Yes the SR71 has to be one of the best sounding portable amps. IMO it is third of my top 5.

 1. Supermicro IV
 2. LaRocco PRII MkII
 3. SR71 tied with the Honet "M"
 4. Porta Corda MkIII tied with the TTVJ Millet Portable
 5. Xenos X1HA-EPC

 The new Xin Reference is still in development mode and once it is finalized I will then be able to place it better. BTW, any of the top 10 regardless of whose list will make the end user very happy.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ BTW, any of the top 10 regardless of whose list will make the end user very happy._

 

NO DOUBT. Very true, and well said.


----------



## ogewo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the SR71 has to be one of the best sounding portable amps. IMO it is third of my top 5.

*1. Supermicro IV*
 2. LaRocco PRII MkII
 3. SR71 tied with the Honet "M"
 4. Porta Corda MkIII tied with the TTVJ Millet Portable
 5. Xenos X1HA-EPC

 The new Xin Reference is still in development mode and once it is finalized I will then be able to place it better. BTW, any of the top 10 regardless of whose list will make the end user very happy._

 

Super_micro_ or Super_macro_?


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ogewo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Supermicro or Supermacro?_

 

It's the Micro like he said; if you read around you will see a lot of people prefer the micro to the macro and there are far more macro's in the FS forums


----------



## jamato8

When I spoke to Xin last he stated that not that many Micros were sold and for a year very few because no one believed that something that small, in an inexpensive plastic case, would sound like it does. It is still a great bargain but try and find one and reference quality, in my opinion.


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More bass impact than a Hornet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 my ears just perked up and I may have to try my first Meier amp. Are these stocked and shipping yet?_

 

I thought the same thing...so much infact, that I sent my eMail to order one....

 I'm anxiously awaiting....


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kamenal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decision made! iBasso T2 + Etys ER4P for ultraportable travel and Meier Move +AKG K701 for home/transportable (sofa/hammock/lazyboy). Still comes to less than one Hornet. What do you think?_

 

You need to have the interconnect cables.


----------



## kamenal

Got the ALO Cryo Dock.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the same thing...so much infact, that I sent my eMail to order one....

 I'm anxiously awaiting...._

 

PM me with your thoughts when you get it. I did not find the PRII to have more bass than the Hornet even when using the contour knob. I tried it with OPA627, AD744 and AD8397 and while it was a very close competitor for the Hornet I felt the Hornet still had slightly better bass definition as well as a edge in the imaging dept. (I did not have the mkII version FWIW).

 If only the MOVE had a bass boost switch I'd be all over it!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PM me with your thoughts when you get it. I did not find the PRII to have more bass than the Hornet even when using the contour knob. I tried it with OPA627, AD744 and AD8397 and while it was a very close competitor for the Hornet I felt the Hornet still had slightly better bass definition as well as a edge in the imaging dept. (I did not have the mkII version FWIW).

 If only the MOVE had a bass boost switch I'd be all over it!_

 

The PRII's bass boost boosts only the deep bass. If you use it with headphones that cannot really reproduce deep bass, then you won't notice it.

 Buy used with headphones that can, the PRII's bass, with the contour knob maxed, will produce more bass than any other amp without a bass boost switch, by far.

 Sadly, I have never owned any other truly satisfying headphone amp that also had a bass boost switch.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PRII's bass boost boosts only the deep bass. If you use it with headphones that cannot really reproduce deep bass, then you won't notice it.

 Buy used with headphones that can, the PRII's bass, with the contour knob maxed, will produce more bass than any other amp without a bass boost switch, by far.

 Sadly, I have never owned any other truly satisfying headphone amp that also had a bass boost switch._

 

How low are we talking? The ES2's are what I used and they'll do 20hz. Pete7 came to the same conclusion when I let him borrow my Hornet but he was also using the ES2's and I'm not sure if he used another headphone. I did not find the Hornet to have good synergy with Beyers IMO.


----------



## Skylab

Below 40Hz. And while the ES2's may be rated to 20Hz, will they really do it? Many/most IEMs won't with any real impact. The bass contour was hard to notice on my Shure E500, for example.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Below 40Hz. And while the ES2's may be rated to 20Hz, will they really do it? Many/most IEMs won't with any real impact. The bass contour was hard to notice on my Shure E500, for example._

 

Maybe I should have done more testing in the 30hz area but during the time I had it I felt the Hornet was better in the bass dept. I have a CD with some 16-20hz stuff on it that came with my HSU sub so I will have to test my ES2's with that and get back to you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did like the bass boost on the SuperMacro IV and that gave noticably more bass than the Hornet but vocals sounded slightly cloudy and it did not image quite as well with the opamp combos I used and IMO.

 As far as portables with lots of bass the only one I've personally heard that had more bass than Hornet was a burned in AE-2. I listened to 2 AE-2's at the meet and the second one I listed to must have been burned in because it had loads of bass but it did not sound boomy or bloated. The bass on the AE-2 was the main reason I ordered one.


----------



## mrarroyo

wakeride74, I have compared side by side the LaRocco PRII, LaRocco PRII MkII, and The Hornet "M". Both of the LaRocco's had the AD744 and I used a variety of cans (DT990, K501, RP21, E500, Triple.Fi, K701, etc.)

 It was my opinion that the LaRocco PRII MkII was the best sounding of the three and its bass the most satisfying both in quantity and quality. The MkII was also a bit warmer/tubier sounding than the original LaRocco PRII.

 Hope this helps. Of course none of them come close to the Supermicro IV.


----------



## wakeride74

The bass and overall praise was the reason I bought the PRII but even after rolling opamps and listening to a variety of music I still prefered the Hornet. Just goes to show how our ears and tastes are all so different!

 Maybe you should send me your micro so I can understand what you mean


----------



## oicdn

Sweet...my Corda Move is on it's way!!!!!!!!!

 I'm anxious as I sold my Indigo DJ so now that it has a DAC, I should be good to go!!!!! God I hope this thing has massive bass.....


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bass and overall praise was the reason I bought the PRII but even after rolling opamps and listening to a variety of music I still prefered the Hornet. Just goes to show how our ears and tastes are all so different!

 Maybe you should send me your micro so I can understand what you mean
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Sit down and get ready to laugh your ass off. I do not have a Supermicro IV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Vorlon1 here has two, one of which he sent back to Dr. Xin for the 4/11 mods, I am waiting for its return to buy it from him. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I get it I might just do that. I am thinking of sending a couple of amps on a tour to dw6928 and I could add you to the tour. Will keep you posted.


----------



## elnero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sit down and get ready to laugh your ass off. I do not have a Supermicro IV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Vorlon1 here has two, one of which he sent back to Dr. Xin for the 4/11 mods, I am waiting for its return to buy it from him. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I get it I might just do that. I am thinking of sending a couple of amps on a tour to dw6928 and I could add you to the tour. Will keep you posted._

 

So does that mean you have been comparing other amps to the Supermicro IV from memory?


----------



## Tantra

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Meier MOVE is a phenomenal headphone amp. Stunningly good._

 

I am in the water for an amplifier to hook up to my new laptop, and the MOVE is very tempting. Have you (or someone else) any comments on the SQ running it powered of the USB?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elnero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does that mean you have been comparing other amps to the Supermicro IV from memory?_

 

Of course not, I have had the Supermicro IV on loan for weeks at a time. Also we meet say about twice a month to compare various amps/cans/ICs. So when I say I have compared two amps they have been used side by side.


----------



## OverlordXenu

Skylab, do you have plans on getting your hands on a LaRocco Diablo somehow, if they ever come out?


----------



## parrot5

For people who have (had) the Corda MOVE and Porta Corda MkIII, is the Porta Corda colder than the MOVE?
 I find the Porta Corda MkIII pretty warm for my taste using ER4S... Is it just me?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, do you have plans on getting your hands on a LaRocco Diablo somehow, if they ever come out?_

 

I will have a Diablo for exactly one day, by agreement, if it ever comes out.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *parrot5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For people who have (had) the Corda MOVE and Porta Corda MkIII, is the Porta Corda colder than the MOVE?
 I find the Porta Corda MkIII pretty warm for my taste using ER4S... Is it just me?_

 

I thought the PCIII was a great amp, but I would never have described it as warm. It's a little on the lean side. Must be the ER4S's giving the warmth.


----------



## Pete7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wakeride74, I have compared side by side the LaRocco PRII, LaRocco PRII MkII, and The Hornet "M". Both of the LaRocco's had the AD744 and I used a variety of cans (DT990, K501, RP21, E500, Triple.Fi, K701, etc.)

 It was my opinion that the LaRocco PRII MkII was the best sounding of the three and its bass the most satisfying both in quantity and quality. The MkII was also a bit warmer/tubier sounding than the original LaRocco PRII.

 Hope this helps. Of course none of them come close to the Supermicro IV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The PR II was a great sounding amp, but with the ES2's the Hornet had more impactful bass. As far as the variable bass boost not being effective with the ES2's, I found the bass would actually start to sound distorted if I turned the knob past a certain level. It always had an effect, just not regarding impact.


----------



## ogewo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's the Micro like he said; if you read around you will see a lot of people prefer the micro to the macro and there are far more macro's in the FS forums
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

...who knew?! I'll have to look into that one.


----------



## Pibborando

My HeadAmp AE-1 came today and it's glorious. Thank you Skylab for your reviews which helped me make a decision on my first headphone amp! (Also thanks Asr for selling the AE-1 to me)

 Now I MUST resist upgrading any time soon. My bank account can't handle it. I've got school to pay for.


----------



## iancraig10

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *parrot5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For people who have (had) the Corda MOVE and Porta Corda MkIII, is the Porta Corda colder than the MOVE?
 I find the Porta Corda MkIII pretty warm for my taste using ER4S... Is it just me?_

 

If you compare the Corda III with the Move, the move has more low end whereas the Corda III has strong mids. Personally, I find the Corda more balanced in sound/tone using Senn 650's. 

 The Move gives a sense of more power (almost) with its lower end but in comparison to something like a Go Vibe, both the Corda and the Move are warm sounding amps. The Move warmer than the Corda. 
 Ian


----------



## Contrastique

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The PRII's bass boost boosts only the deep bass. If you use it with headphones that cannot really reproduce deep bass, then you won't notice it._

 

Indeed. I also expected the bass-boost to be way too much and being overruling when opened up completely but the difference is in such small spectrum it is so subtle. That really surprised me. Totally overcomes my expectations. I love it!


----------



## elnero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course not, I have had the Supermicro IV on loan for weeks at a time. Also we meet say about twice a month to compare various amps/cans/ICs. So when I say I have compared two amps they have been used side by side._

 

I figured as much because I know you and Vorlon1 seem to live close together but playing sort of a devil's advocate I thought I should ask so it's clarified for everyone.


----------



## parrot5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the PCIII was a great amp, but I would never have described it as warm. It's a little on the lean side. Must be the ER4S's giving the warmth._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iancraig10* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you compare the Corda III with the Move, the move has more low end whereas the Corda III has strong mids. Personally, I find the Corda more balanced in sound/tone using Senn 650's. 

 The Move gives a sense of more power (almost) with its lower end but in comparison to something like a Go Vibe, both the Corda and the Move are warm sounding amps. The Move warmer than the Corda. 
 Ian_

 

Thank you both of you for answering my question. iancraig, your comparison to the Go-Vibe is just what I hear too. I'm wondering, can you do a brief comparison with the headfive/arietta too? I am interested in a desktop setup, but I'm afraid the headfive/arietta has even more warmth/'slowness' than the Porta Corda.


----------



## iancraig10

I get a lot of enjoyment from the Headfive although it doesn't seem to have as much gain as many other mains operated amps.

 It has a clean sound that I prefer in comparison to the Porta Corda sound. This is just my preference, but I feel able to listen more 'inside' the music via the Headfive. It's quite airy sounding and the Senn 650's sound more open through it.

 Don't get me wrong, the Corda is excellent for mobile use on a silly battery. It also has great transparency but I'm still making my mind up about the Move.

 Ian


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will have a Diablo for exactly one day, by agreement, if it ever comes out._

 

Was it Larry advise you or Duncan told you? I am still waiting my one, but I don't know how the schedule when Duncan is in marriage.


----------



## Skylab

I have one on order, but I have already sold mine to someone else, with the agreement I can test it out for one day. I have NO IDEA when, or even if, the Diablo will actually ship, nor am I in contact with Larry at Larroco or Duncan at IPA.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have one on order, but I have already sold mine to someone else, with the agreement I can test it out for one day. I have NO IDEA when, or even if, the Diablo will actually ship, nor am I in contact with Larry at Larroco or Duncan at IPA._

 

I'd wager you'll get your Lisa III before you hear any news on the Diablo
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Skylab - Do you know of any portable or transportable amp/DAC combos with a bass boost function?


----------



## wgr73

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I fully reviewed the Lisa III prototype in another thread. It isn't on this review until it's released, but if the released version sounds like the Prototype, it will be the new top dog, no question._

 

Wow!! I may have to wait for that...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd wager you'll get your Lisa III before you hear any news on the Diablo
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Skylab - Do you know of any portable or transportable amp/DAC combos with a bass boost function?_

 

I bet you're right on the Lisa III. As for a amp/dac combo that has a bass boost switch, no, I do not know of such a beast.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wgr73* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow!! I may have to wait for that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Lisa III is terrific. Keep in mind it's more of a "transportable" amp - battery powered, yes, but larger than any of the amps in this review. Just something to think about. Sound quality wise, it's terrific.


----------



## wgr73

Cool Skylab. I just saw the pics in your review, and yes...it big; maybe too big!


----------



## Contrastique

Bought the Larocco PRII (first version) a little over a week ago with the ad8620. I am able to swop it in about 2 weeks for the PRII MKII with ad744 mod. But Hans (from Qables who sold it to me) said that he found the ad744 a little more restless and more tiring than what I have now.
 Anybody recognizes this?


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Contrastique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bought the Larocco PRII (first version) a little over a week ago with the ad8620. I am able to swop it in about 2 weeks for the PRII MKII with ad744 mod. But Hans (from Qables who sold it to me) said that he found the ad744 a little more restless and more tiring than what I have now.
 Anybody recognizes this?_

 

Check with Pete7, he did a lot of rolling on his and would probably be a good person to ask.


----------



## Computerstud

Skylab, you are the demon of demons. Damn corda move review. I hate this thread. I just got here to headfi and already I spent well over $500. Just requested the corda move for purchase. 
 Thanks Skylab 
 How's the synergy of the move with the k701?
 How's the usb dac sound?
 I signed away my soul when I registered for head-fi.


----------



## antonyfirst

Someone lend a Xin Reference and a Portable Millet to Skylab!!!


----------



## slwiser

You ain't get'in my Reference.....


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





You ain't get'in my Reference....._

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the reaction I expected to get from everyone with a Reference beta


----------



## Computerstud

How much did Meier-Audio pay you skylab? 
 Quick question, are you going to keep the corda move as your own personal amp?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, that's pretty much the reaction I expected to get from everyone with a Reference beta 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe I can be talked into sending you a Beta Reference, but in all honesty it would not be fair to do so. The Beta Reference is quite a few generations behind the very latest that Dr. Xin has come out with.

 I tell you what I will do, when I get my "final version" of the Reference I will burn it in for 500 hours and ship it to you. All I ask is that I may want to borrow one of your closed Darth Beyers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This may not be needed, I am trying to set up a Mini-Meet with a couple of local head-fiers and one of them (Boomana) has one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways I will keep you posted.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Contrastique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bought the Larocco PRII (first version) a little over a week ago with the ad8620. I am able to swop it in about 2 weeks for the PRII MKII with ad744 mod. But Hans (from Qables who sold it to me) said that he found the ad744 a little more restless and more tiring than what I have now.
 Anybody recognizes this?_

 

I have listened to the AD8620 on Vorlon1's LaRocco PRII before he sent it to have them swapped for the AD744. I personally prefer the sound of the AD744 but I use full size cans. I say this because the hiss can be detrimental to IEM's users with the AD744. The MkII has an atenuator switch on the back which IMO eliminates the hiss, unless you are deaf and go past 2:00 o'clock on the volume knob.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Computerstud* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question, are you going to keep the corda move as your own personal amp?_

 

Well, since I *bought* the Move, and I think it's fantastic, yeah, I plan to keep it at my main portable amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tell you what I will do, when I get my "final version" of the Reference I will burn it in for 500 hours and ship it to you. All I ask is that I may want to borrow one of your closed Darth Beyers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This may not be needed, I am trying to set up a Mini-Meet with a couple of local head-fiers and one of them (Boomana) has one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways I will keep you posted._

 

Thanks for the offer! I actually plan to buy a Reference, whenever they go on sale...


----------



## Skylab

Weird duplicate post.


----------



## trose49

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, since I *bought* the Move, and I think it's fantastic, yeah, I plan to keep it at my main portable amp.


_

 

Your killing me!


----------



## Pibborando

Question about the AE-1. Does the charging LED stay on as long as it's plugged in, or does it turn off when the battery is fully charged? I've had it plugged in for over a day now and it's still on...

 Love the amp though!


----------



## guzziguy

So the Reference will be your other main portable amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, since I *bought* the Move, and I think it's fantastic, yeah, I plan to keep it at my main portable amp.



 Thanks for the offer! I actually plan to buy a Reference, whenever they go on sale..._


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the Reference will be your other main portable amp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Maybe! I have kept the RSA Tomahawk as a long-term reference. But I am going to have a loaner AE-2 here in a few days, and that will also be fun to listen to.

 I like to have 3-4 portable amps on hand that I actually own, but no more.


----------



## jlingo

Hi Skylab, 

 How about the TTVJ Millet Hybrid Amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's definitely something different here with real tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I find TTVJ Millett has a very good synergy with Triple.Fi no doubt, huge soundstage and depth, very organic, and euphonic sounding.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab once again kudos to you, my friend, for this massive missive. take a break & let your mind go to some versions of 'dark star'. once you're refreshed i (and many others, no doubt) hope that you'll jump back into the fray and compare the go vibe 6, larocco diablo (if and when that tempting little bugger shows), and various xin amps with the others. btw, how many hrs are on your tomahawk now? your 'competitors' in the tiny amp shoot out review series (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) are now reporting that the thing continues to improve out past 600hrs and is awfully close to their beloved hornet and sr-71 (and they're going to test and see if it's still changing at 800hrs), although they still seem to favor the xin supermicro above all others (please correct me if i've misstated, boys)._

 

When I listen to both SR-71 and Hornet I find that the hornet has much more constricted soundstage and SR-71 a huge soundstage. Does the Hornet suppose to have soundstage as big as SR-71?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jlingo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Skylab, 

 How about the TTVJ Millet Hybrid Amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's definitely something different here with real tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I find TTVJ Millett has a very good synergy with Triple.Fi no doubt, huge soundstage and depth, very organic, and euphonic sounding._

 

I would love to review one, but I am not going to buy one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good news: My loaner AE-2 from kind head-fier GuzziGuy is here. WIll start to break it in...


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would love to review one, but I am not going to buy one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good news: My loaner AE-2 from kind head-fier GuzziGuy is here. WIll start to break it in..._

 

I'm anxious to hear this review!

 btw - what color is it?


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm anxious to hear this review!

 btw - what color is it?_

 

Me too! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This amp was the grand prize at the 2006 LA meet. I was fortunate enough to win it. It has a custom enclosure and when Justin asked me what I wanted, I told him that he was the artist so make something that he would be proud for me to display at meets. Here is what he suggested:

  Quote:


 Also, what color for the chassis? I put together one that I think is very nice, a "luxury" edition. The body of the chassis is flat champagne, and the front and rear panels are polished silver. I think it looks great. 
 

I don't even know what color the knob is nor have I yet seen a picture. So I'm pretty anxious to see it as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure that I'll love it though.


----------



## Skylab

Here are some pics to torture you with


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here are some pics to torture you with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 

You know, after waiting 11 months I pretty much can't be tortured anymore. Does the case look a more champagne color in person than it does in the picture? Enjoy your time with the amp. I'm looking forward to your review!


----------



## Skylab

Honestly, I would not call it champagne - looks like silver to me. But my wife says I am colorblind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either way, it's a handsome little amp to be sure.


----------



## EsthetiX

*Is there a review like this for NON portable amps? I really don't care about having an amp with me while I'm on the go.*


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EsthetiX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Is there a review like this for NON portable amps? I really don't care about having an amp with me while I'm on the go.*_

 

Yes, and it's excellent: 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...20#post2805020


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, and it's excellent: 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...20#post2805020_

 

Yes, except it is missing all the amps I'd like to know about.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly, I would not call it champagne - looks like silver to me. But my wife says I am colorblind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Either way, it's a handsome little amp to be sure._

 

Very pretty amp (lovingly photo-d on lovely/rich/reflective wood).

 Somehow I drool over Justin's sexy Custom Copper AE-2. Sigh.


----------



## gonzalo

Skylab, my wallet hates you¡¡¡¡¡¡


----------



## Computerstud

Skylab, you are killing me. More great amps everyday. Wish I have a Xin reference to donate to you so you can rank it. Just wanted to let you know that you are appreciated.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! I hope to complete the AE-2 review today.


----------



## yome6969

I want a review of The Elegance.


----------



## Skylab

Your wish is my command! That amp's maker is sending me one to review.


----------



## yome6969

Hi, Magnifico Skylab

 People are interested in a design of The Elegance in Japan.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am interested in sound of The Elegance.


----------



## smith

Skylab - Will the review of the IBasso T2 be up soon......I see you have one in your sig now.........


----------



## Claus-DK

how do you compare amps, if you can not A B C D E F ..... them ??

 From memory ??

 Also I think you schould use portable phones ie IEMs...


----------



## antonyfirst

Hi Skylab! Is the review of the AE-2 at a good point?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *smith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - Will the review of the IBasso T2 be up soon......I see you have one in your sig now........._

 

VERY soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Claus-DK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how do you compare amps, if you can not A B C D E F ..... them ??

 From memory ??

 Also I think you schould use portable phones ie IEMs..._

 

I compare based on the amps I do keep, which are enough to do the comparisons, based on careful notes about how those amps compared to others I no longer have, and then from the detailed notes I had when I reviewed each amp. And then finally, yes, from memory, although only in conjunction with the other methods listed above.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Skylab! Is the review of the AE-2 at a good point?_

 

VERY soon


----------



## Claus-DK

OK cool I was just wondering...


----------



## Skylab

The following was just added to the review:

*Update 7/16/07*

*> Headamp AE-2*

http://www.headamp.com/portable_amps/index.htm

 Another head-fier was kind enough to offer to send me his AE-2 to listen to. Like the AE-1, it's incredibly nice to look at - very well built, and really beautiful. Really only the Larocco is as nice looking as the AE-2. Built in rechargeable battery, and has RCA inputs on back in addition to the mini-jack input on the front. I did not have the AE-1 to compare to it directly, and from memory I think it’s an improvement to what was already a very good amp.

*Build Quality:* A+: Outstanding build quality. Very attractive and solidly built - maybe only exceeded by the PRII. 
*Treble:* A: Smooth, silky, open, clean, and detailed. . Much better than the AE-1 in this regard. On par with the Meier and RSA amps in this regard.
*Midrange:* A-: Smooth and open sounding. Very open, even, and inviting, never aggressive. Not as lush as the mids were on the AE-1 I’m pretty sure. .
*Bass: * B+: Tight, well defined, with decent punch. But a little too lean for my tastes. This just isn’t a bass-lover’s amp. The bass that is there is very good, but it lacks enough bass weight and authority IMO.
*Neutrality:* A-: The above lack of bass weight makes it just short of the best amps here – it’s sometimes just a little bright sounding without the bass foundation. But this is only when directly compared to the Meier or RSA amps.
*Soundstaging:* A: Excellent – very good, outstanding depth. Very convincing image – excellent specificity. .
*Transparency:* A-: Clean and smooth. Not *quite* at the same level as the Meier or RSA amps, but very close. 

 The AE-2 is an excellent sounding amp. It's incredibly well built. It certainly is in that category of amps that produces a "WOW" listening factor. Plenty of gain – drove 250 and 600 ohm headphones without difficulty. You do get a built in rechargeable battery, and a charger, as well as nice looking amp. But it’s more expensive than several amps I think sound a little better. This means you have to really value the way it looks, or prefer an amp that has a littler less bass, to have the AE-2 make sense financially. Otherwise, I’d buy a Xin SuperMicro, Meier Move, Xenos 1HA, or RSA Tomahawk.

*> iBasso T2 *

 http://www.ibasso.com/ 


 I was asked by the importer of this amp to review it. So I did. It’s stunningly small, and VERY attractive. The most retail-oriented headphone amp I have seen. It has 2 headphone outs, and a bass boost switch, as well as a sort of a crossfeed switch. Built in rechargeable battery and charger. You get a lot for your money! And it and it’s brother the T1 are s the smallest portable amps around. Perfect mate for a iPod Nano for a super-small, super good portable rig.

*Build Quality:* B+: Like the T1, small and attractive, and pretty solid for the size. The switches are a little cheesy, though.
*Treble:* B+: Reasonably clean and detailed, but somewhat rolled off. 
*Midrange:* B: A little cloudy and opaque sounding. Seems like the designer wanted a tube-like sound. A little nasally. 
*Bass: * B+: Upper bass a little forward and deep bass is slightly lacking. Bass weight is very good. 
*Neutrality:* B: Lacking a little in the frequency extremes, and a little goosed in the lower mids/upper bass.
*Soundstaging:* B+: Decent. Width is very good, depth is decent, image specificity is decent.
*Transparency:* B: No real grain. But the slightly cloudy mids detract a little.

 It seems that iBasso was looking for a different sound than the T1 offered. I no longer have the T1 around, but compared to the amps I do have around, the T2 isn’t really all that neutral sounding. It seems that they wanted to make it sound kind of like a tube amp, much like the C&C XO. This will appeal to lots of people, probably. And I’m sure my ranking is going to rankle some people who do seem to really like the T2’s sound. But it doesn’t really light my fire, I have to confess. I prefer a more neutral sounding amp. It does sound better with headphones that are slightly bright like the AT ES7. And for the size and cost, it’s a truly unique amp that will appeal to lots of people I’m sure. 


*Conclusions (7/16/07)*


 OK, so now its now 23 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 1. Meier Audio MOVE
 2. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 6. Xin SuperMicro IV
 7. Headamp AE-2
 8. Portaphile V2^2
 9. Storm B-4
 10. mSeed Spirit
 11. iBasso P-1
 12. Practical Devices XM4
 13. C&C XO
 13. iBasso T2
 14. Go-Vibe 6
 15. Xtra X-1 Pro
 16. Xenos 0HA-REP
 16. iBasso T1
 17. Xtra X-1
 18. C&C Box V2
 19. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## sghound

WHOA. brilliant Sky!


----------



## dr.morton

Skylab,
 did you use your Shure E500 for testing the AE-2?
 Is there a sound difference to full sized cans?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dr.morton* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,
 did you use your Shure E500 for testing the AE-2?
 Is there a sound difference to full sized cans?_

 

Not sure what you mean. I did try the E500, and there is just a little hiss using them with the AE-2. Is that what you meant?


----------



## amitz

Thanks Skylab for another great reviews.


----------



## dr.morton

Quote:


 Not sure what you mean. I did try the E500, and there is just a little hiss using them with the AE-2. Is that what you meant? 
 

Yes, a part of it. After some "bad" synergies between some amps and my UE-10 pro IMO a lot of amps seem to overemphazise the bass part. Maybe to compensate for the bass weaknesses in some DAPs, who knows?!


----------



## JadeEast

Thanks Skylab more great reviews.
 Have you tried any portables with your Yamaha YH-100s?


----------



## wakeride74

Very interesting observations Skylab!

 When I listened to the AE-2 at the meet it was almost like I listened to 2 different amps. The first AE-2 I listened to was that bronze or rootbeer color and the bass was there but nothing special, vocals were clear and it really just seemed to get out of the way of the music and present it in a very neutral way. The second AE-2 I listened to was black and the bass was more powerful than the Hornet! I a/b'd them a few times with my ES2's going back and forth because I just couldn't believe it. The top end also seemed smoother and more liquid but the mids and vocals sounded about the same. I should have asked Justin about the hours on each one but I heard a major difference between the two.

 At any rate I've decided to just wait for Lisa


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JadeEast* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Skylab more great reviews.
 Have you tried any portables with your Yamaha YH-100s?_

 

So just for yucks I just tried it on the MOVE. It drove them without difficulty. My YH-100's still need modding, but considering that, the combo was pretty good.


----------



## GUNS

Thanks for the great reviews Skylab much appreciated!


----------



## slwiser

My take on the T2 would have been a little higher so I guess I qualify as one who likes their music more musical.


----------



## mrarroyo

Skylab, recently I had an oportunity to listen to an AE-2, Xenos X1HA-EPC, and Go-Vibe 6 thanks to Asr's generosity. I used my SR-71 as a point of comparison and I prefered the SR71 and the Xenos to the AE-2. Prety much the same way you did. At the time Vorlon1 also listened to them but he prefered the AE-2 to the Xenos.

 Now we need to get you to test the Supermicro IV with the 4/11 and 5/30 tweaks which you have not. I am convinced you will bring that little wonder up in your rankings. Yes I am a Supermicro Freak. You know there is a ring to that, I may have to add it to my signature.


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting observations Skylab!

 When I listened to the AE-2 at the meet it was almost like I listened to 2 different amps. The first AE-2 I listened to was that bronze or rootbeer color and the bass was there but nothing special, vocals were clear and it really just seemed to get out of the way of the music and present it in a very neutral way. The second AE-2 I listened to was black and the bass was more powerful than the Hornet! I a/b'd them a few times with my ES2's going back and forth because I just couldn't believe it. The top end also seemed smoother and more liquid but the mids and vocals sounded about the same. I should have asked Justin about the hours on each one but I heard a major difference between the two.

 At any rate I've decided to just wait for Lisa
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Maybe it's like the K340's. There must be "bass heavy" and "bass light" versions!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My take on the T2 would have been a little higher so I guess I qualify as one who likes their music more musical.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, what makes reviewing amps hard is that the sound you get is an amp-headphone synergy (or not), and as such what one person loves will be less that perfect for another.

 But my bias has always been clear - I like my headphones to provide the color - I like my amps to be neutral.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, recently I had an oportunity to listen to an AE-2, Xenos X1HA-EPC, and Go-Vibe 6 thanks to Asr's generosity. I used my SR-71 as a point of comparison and I prefered the SR71 and the Xenos to the AE-2. Prety much the same way you did. At the time Vorlon1 also listened to them but he prefered the AE-2 to the Xenos.

 Now we need to get you to test the Supermicro IV with the 4/11 and 5/30 tweaks which you have not. I am convinced you will bring that little wonder up in your rankings. Yes I am a Supermicro Freak. You know there is a ring to that, I may have to add it to my signature. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Feel free to send it to me any time


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, what makes reviewing amps hard is that the sound you get is an amp-headphone synergy (or not), and as such what one person loves will be less that perfect for another.

 But my bias has always been clear - I like my headphones to provide the color - I like my amps to be neutral.



 Feel free to send it to me any time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Touché!


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But my bias has always been clear - I like my headphones to provide the color - I like my amps to be neutral._

 

Awe crap...I like it the otehr way around...well, a little color in the headphones, but moreso in the amp...dammit.


----------



## elnero

Nice to see you finally got an AE-2 to try out. I would agree with almost everything you said about it with the exception of the bass. Lean is not a word I would use to describe it. I personally continue to be impressed with the AE-2's bass, I'll admit to being a bit of a basshead myself and I've been finding the AE-2 + E500 combo very satisfying. It's never overblown but always there in spades when called upon. The bass has very good extension and it's tight, punchy and tuneful which I think is one of the reasons my feet always seem to be tapping when I'm listening.

 Based on wakeride74's comments I can't help but wonder if it's a difference based on burn-in?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elnero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Based on wakeride74's comments I can't help but wonder if it's a difference based on burn-in?_

 

Quite possibly. I was only able to burn it in for 75 hours before doing the review. It's possible it would get even better with more time.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awe crap...I like it the otehr way around...well, a little color in the headphones, but moreso in the amp...dammit._

 

Please do not take offense, but I do find this odd. Headphones are GOING to be colored, no matter what, it's just a question of how. At the same time, it isn't that hard to make an amp that is within +/- 1db of being completely neutral. So having an amp be colored and headphones neutral is really doing it backward, IMO.


----------



## elnero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quite possibly. I was only able to burn it in for 75 hours before doing the review. It's possible it would get even better with more time._

 

I wonder if that may be at least part of the difference in perception. I seem to remember ASR finding the bass somewhat lean or lightweight initially but then I believe he felt it came around to be very satisfying but, again if I remember correctly, it took upwards of 200 hours. Will you be putting more hours on the AE-2 or does it have to go to it's owner?

 Personally I can't attest to what changes occurred during the initial few hundred hours as I was having a few issues with my iPod turning itself off so I had no idea how long the amp was getting played while I was asleep or not around and at the same time I was going back and forth trying to find the best E500 tips for my use and preferences.


----------



## Skylab

No, I am not comfortable holding on to the AE-2 long enough to put 200 or so hours on it. That just isn't practical for me to do with someone else's amp. Maybe Gizzguy can comment on the bass after he's put 200+ hours on it.


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please do not take offense, but I do find this odd. Headphones are GOING to be colored, no matter what, it's just a question of how. At the same time, it isn't that hard to make an amp that is within +/- 1db of being completely neutral. So having an amp be colored and headphones neutral is really doing it backward, IMO._

 

Well maybe not reversed completely, but you know, I like how certain amps make headphones have PUNCH and depth. Obviously, that's not a neutral amp if it's contributing to the music that way.

 The LaRocco is a perfect example. When I was doing my review, I noticed alot of amps added thier signature (warmth or coldness) but the LaRocco was TRANSPARENT, but it made even anemic headphones have PUNCH. It was singly the only amp that made me go "What? These cans have impact and bass now!). I listened to DT990's on a Singlepower attatched to a Denon TT and it had nowhere near the punch the LaRocco gave. Which is really what I'm looking for. Aggressive, punchy, in your face sound.

 Maybe not backwards per say, but I don't want it to be just a volume attenuator...I want it to add to the music.

 If the move sounds anything similar to what the LaRocco does in terms of enhancing bass and adding impact like the LaRocco did, I sure I'll be a happy camper, otherwise, I don't think I'll ever be happy unless I own a LaRocco PRII. And even then I dunno what version I listened to because there are so many different versions now...anybody wanna sell thier LaRocco?


----------



## Skylab

That all makes sense, oicdn. Although the PRII adds punch b/c of it's excellent bass boost control - a "planned" form of coloration. I like having a well implemented bass boost like that.

 But let's take the Meier MOVE for example. It's slightly warm of neutral, which for most people is better than slightly lean of neutral. But it's not so much that way that it sounds clearly colored, like other amps can. The MOVE's ability to deliver crunchy, deep bass isn't a coloration - it's a LACK of coloration. Many portable amps are "colored" in that they LACK bass weight and depth that should actually be there.

 Just a different way of saying the same things, I expect.


----------



## cajieboy

Skylab, many thanks for the reviews. As a newbie, I wanted to ask why Grado and Stax were not included in your roundup? Again, thanks.


----------



## clc220

updating pretty fast lately, now when's misterX's amp going up ?


----------



## elnero

Dammit Skylab the more you talk about the Move the more I want to hear one! Must resist....


----------



## tbonner1

Leave Skylab alone so he can concentrate on the $100 headphone review (ho-ho).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clc220* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_updating pretty fast lately, now when's misterX's amp going up ?_

 

If you read above, you will see I don't plan to add it.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tbonner1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leave Skylab alone so he can concentrate on the $100 headphone review (ho-ho)._

 

Yep, no more amps until I am done with headphones


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That all makes sense, oicdn. Although the PRII adds punch b/c of it's excellent bass boost control - a "planned" form of coloration. I like having a well implemented bass boost like that.

 But let's take the Meier MOVE for example. It's slightly warm of neutral, which for most people is better than slightly lean of neutral. But it's not so much that way that it sounds clearly colored, like other amps can. The MOVE's ability to deliver crunchy, deep bass isn't a coloration - it's a LACK of coloration. Many portable amps are "colored" in that they LACK bass weight and depth that should actually be there.

 Just a different way of saying the same things, I expect._

 

Ahh probably saying the same things. But atleast you get what I'm saying, lol.

 I think the PRII delivers MASSIVE amounts of bass without even using the bass knob, even on phones that are dead (DT990, K501) in that regard, IMO. The knob is so subtle, I don't think it's needed seeing as how much it gives without it, but it is indeed a nice option to have. I found myself playing with that knob from points of songs simply just to hear how deep it could go.

 It's funny cause this amp is rated #3 in my list, but I loved it the most. That damn price is just too much to swallow. That, and the stupid idea of putting the input jack on the back AND a 1/4 jack on the front. But I guess the amp would only be BIGGER if the jacks were on the front. Funny how much that price and ergonomics changed its position in ranking for me. But it is by far, my favorite SOUNDING (and looking) amp, for sure.

 But if you're saying the Move has an equally amount of abilty to make me gush like the PRII does, I shouldn't be disappointed.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I think the PRII delivers MASSIVE amounts of bass without even using the bass knob, even on phones that are dead (DT990, K501) in that regard, IMO. The knob is so subtle, I don't think it's needed seeing as how much it gives without it, but it is indeed a nice option to have. ...

 But if you're saying the Move has an equally amount of abilty to make me gush like the PRII does, I shouldn't be disappointed._

 

I felt that without the knob the PRII has less bass weight than any RSA portable, and less than the MOVE, so you should be happy


----------



## oicdn

When you say "less bass weight than any of the RSA portables, and less than the move"...what do you mean? It has LESS bass? Now I'm confused (easy thing to do, lol)

 Hopefully in either case, bass-head heaven, here I come...well, as close as I can get I guess without owning a PRII, lol.

 She wasn't in the mail today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully tomorrow....my ears will be able to rejoice. I'll just have to fiddle with which mode and gain setting I like....


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I am not comfortable holding on to the AE-2 long enough to put 200 or so hours on it. That just isn't practical for me to do with someone else's amp. Maybe Gizzguy can comment on the bass after he's put 200+ hours on it._

 

I offered Skylab to keep the AE-2 for as long as he needed. Unfortunately he wouldn't be able to get back to it for awhile as he has a few things on his table. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm afraid that since I haven't heard very many portable amps, any comments I make about the bass won't have a useful reference. However, the amp goes next to Romanee for a review. Hopefully he can burn it in longer so we can see if the bass changes.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please do not take offense, but I do find this odd. Headphones are GOING to be colored, no matter what, it's just a question of how. At the same time, it isn't that hard to make an amp that is within +/- 1db of being completely neutral. So having an amp be colored and headphones neutral is really doing it backward, IMO._

 

I know probably less than nothing when it comes to amp design but it seems to me that the amps would be no different in the respect. Some are designed around a certain opamp, some are designed around swapping opamps, some have gain, crossfeed and other switches in the signal path etc. so it seems that as with most things in this hobby "neutral" is just another subjective point of view that changes from person to person, headphone to headphone and amp to amp. Just my 2¢ on the matter.

  Quote:


 Originally Posted by *oicdn *
 When you say "less bass weight than any of the RSA portables, and less than the move"...what do you mean? It has LESS bass? 
 

This is where Skylab and I part ways... now this may be completely revolving around synergy but I did not find the PRII to have more bass than the Hornet. When I say more bass I mean just that... impact, volume and quantity. I rolled a few different opamps and listened exclusively with my ES2's. I also mailed my Hornet to Pete7 so he could compare the two and I believe he rolled more opamps than I did but basically came to the same conclusion that while the two were very very close the Hornet had a slight edge for more bass in quantity, impact and volume but also better texture. We also agreed that the Hornet imaged better. There may have been more subtle differences but those are the ones I remember.

 After reading Skylabs review I was very tempted to jump on a Move but knowing what I know about the sound of the PRII and reading the improved effect the bass knob now has when Skylab reviewed the Lisa III I am waiting for it in hopes of the ultimate transportable basshead heaven


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is where Skylab and I part ways... now this may be completely revolving around synergy but I did not find the PRII to have more bass than the Hornet._

 

Actually, we AGREE. What I said was that the RSA amps have MORE bass than the PRII, when the PRII's bass boost is left off.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, we AGREE. What I said was that the RSA amps have MORE bass than the PRII, when the PRII's bass boost is left off._

 

I'm sorry, I should have said even with the bass boost in use I still found the Hornet to have more bass.

 I should also note that I did not care for the synergy between the Hornet and the standard DT770-250 or the Darth Zebra's.


----------



## boomana

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry, I should have said even with the bass boost in use I still found the Hornet to have more bass.

 I should also note that I did not care for the synergy between the Hornet and the standard DT770-250 or the Darth Zebra's._

 

Interesting...just goes to show...as far as portable/transportable amps go, I prefer my Darths with the Hornet over the PRII and even over the Canamp (which was my work rig with an imod, so I consider it transportable). I recently picked up an SR-71, but have loaned my Darths out for a few weeks to another head-fier. I'm real curious to hear if there's a notable difference one way or another. I also find the PRII to have more bass with the bass boost (not as in louder bass, but extension and fullness) than the Hornet, but not when off.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I offered Skylab to keep the AE-2 for as long as he needed. Unfortunately he wouldn't be able to get back to it for awhile as he has a few things on his table. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm afraid that since I haven't heard very many portable amps, any comments I make about the bass won't have a useful reference. However, the amp goes next to Romanee for a review. Hopefully he can burn it in longer so we can see if the bass changes._

 

Some know by now that I'm a bulldog as regards sticking with "burn in" until I feel the sound has stabilized and optimized as much as I perceive it will go -- so know problem for me. 

 Further, I heard Asr's fairly virgin AE-2 at HeadFest, and then Justin's well-played demo units and the improvement of Justin's of Asr's was astounding -- so I know roughly what the goal should be. 

 When I heard Asr's at HeadFest (at that point he hadn't realized that so much "burn in" was required), I was really confounded that his AE-2 sounded nearly identical to his AE-1 next to it -- to my ears -- and not as good as Justin's prototypes I'd heard a few NYC meets back. I read later in his posts that it was fairly new at the big meet.

 Any AE-2 owners, or owners-to-be, should keep this in mind -- that it will ultimately sound much better than out-of-the-box, once it's had enough hours of play to optimize.


----------



## slwiser

If 100 hours is the magic number then there are several amps that will be heavily handicapped due to their long burn-in requirements. Maybe Skylab should put this as a warning in the write-up concerning those that have this reputation! 

 Skylab, did you Hornet and Tomahawk only have 100 hours? as well as your SR-1? when you made the comparisons?

 AE-2, Supermacro, Reference, etc.


----------



## jamato8

I can see that as a problem, burn-in, with some of the amps with the large caps as noted above. The Reference I have has around 700 hours and I still hear changes. I have some amps with 1000's of hours on them that I know are stable and I use these as a base line for comparison. If an amp is not totally burned in, which can be a frustrating wait, you haven't really heard the amp.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If 100 hours is the magic number then there are several amps that will be heavily handicapped due to their long burn-in requirements. Maybe Skylab should put this as a warning in the write-up concerning those that have this reputation! 

 Skylab, did you Hornet and Tomahawk only have 100 hours? as well as your SR-1? when you made the comparisons?

 AE-2, Supermacro, Reference, etc._

 

The Hornet needs a good 300-400 hrs to settle. Mine had about 400 on it when I A/B'd the PRII and even more when I A/B'd the AE-2's at the meet. Major differences to my ears were depth of image, weight and bass impact, volume, texture and quantity.

 If Skylab is doing 100 hrs on all amps they may have a different sound then what they will end up at but at least they are all reviewed at similar mileage.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If 100 hours is the magic number then there are several amps that will be heavily handicapped due to their long burn-in requirements. Maybe Skylab should put this as a warning in the write-up concerning those that have this reputation! 

 Skylab, did you Hornet and Tomahawk only have 100 hours? as well as your SR-1? when you made the comparisons?

 AE-2, Supermacro, Reference, etc._

 

When I got the amp new, yes, I burned it in 100 hours. In many cases the amp was loaned to me with more hours already on it than that. In a couple instances I have been asked to burn it in even longer and then report again, which I did. And of course many amps I have kept and kept using, and have periodically updated the reviews if there were changes, although honestly my experience has been that changes beyond 100 hours tend to be very subtle. Note however that I don't even listen to the amps until they have 100 hours on them.

 If Romanee believes the AE-2 changes a lot between when he gets it and when he has burned it in more, then maybe Guzziguy will allow me another quick listen


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I got the amp new, yes, I burned it in 100 hours. In many cases the amp was loaned to me with more hours already on it than that. In a couple instances I have been asked to burn it in even longer and then report again, which I did. And of course many amps I have kept and kept using, and have periodically updated the reviews if there were changes, although honestly my experience has been that changes beyond 100 hours tend to be very subtle. Note however that I don't even listen to the amps until they have 100 hours on them.

 If Romanee believes the AE-2 changes a lot between when he gets it and when he has burned it in more, then maybe Guzziguy will allow me another quick listen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't think that would be a problem. It would only add a couple days (more or less. well more!) to its journey back to me. At least you won't have to worry about break/burn in.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Guzziguy!


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*> iBasso T2 *
 http://www.ibasso.com/ 
 And it and it’s brother the T1 are s the smallest portable amps around._

 

are these amps really smaller than the xin supermicro?!?!


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are these amps really smaller than the xin supermicro?!?!_

 

What do they say about one picture? T2 on the left and Xin Reference on the right.


----------



## rxc

Tape two AA batteries together and you'll have a rough idea about the Supermicro's size.


----------



## Skylab

Supermicro is much taller, but has a much smaller footprint than the T2. Hard to compare sizes.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Supermicro is much taller, but has a much smaller footprint than the T2. Hard to compare sizes._

 

iBasso T2 is much prettier. I handled one at HeadFest and was shocked by how small it was/felt, and how pretty it was (translucent white face). The sound was also better than I expected, but (though I haven't yet heard one … soon I hope) I suspect from the glowing reports from repectable members that the SuperMicro IV has superior SQ (though real chintzy looks, tho' I shouldn't give chintz a bad name 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do they say about one picture? T2 on the left and Xin Reference on the right._

 

Steve, how do the 2 amps compare? does the xin have two 1/4" headphone jacks? oh, how many hrs do you have on the xin and is it still breaking in? do you have any idea of how close this is to an actual production unit, when will those be available and how much will they cost?


----------



## mrarroyo

Totally agree with Romanee, I do my best to let every amp burn in for a minimun of 250 to 300 hours. Those with large caps or blackgates (Hornet, Tomahawk, Supermacro LE, Reference, Portaphile, LaRocco, etc) I go much further up to and including 800 hours (Tomahawk and Reference).


----------



## Goh

Skylab, I know you've done a blind comparison between the Aria and Tomahawk, but have you done any other blind comparisons? I would love to read such an assessment on a variety of amps. I suspect that when price, portability, and looks are taken out of the equation, many will have difficulty determining which amp is "better" and which is "worse." If the results show that a sub-$100 sounds about the same as a $500 amp, it would greatly help those of us who are financially challenged. The listening impressions by you and other Head-fiers are valuable and greatly appreciated, but I long for something on a more absolute scale - i.e. "if getting the HD650 took your system from a 5 to an 8, upgrading to this amp will improve that to an 8.5." Has anything like this been attempted? If not, is it feasible?


----------



## Skylab

I have no comment on that - I don't think blind comparisons are the best way to judge audio components. But PLEASE let us not debate it in this thread


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *daveDerek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steve, how do the 2 amps compare? does the xin have two 1/4" headphone jacks? oh, how many hrs do you have on the xin and is it still breaking in? do you have any idea of how close this is to an actual production unit, when will those be available and how much will they cost?_

 

My Reference has two quarter and two eight connections. I have many hours on the Reference. I have gone through almost two sets of batteries which is over 400 hours mostly with a 260 ohm load which is supposed to burn in the components faster than my 40 ohm load by 6x. I have not a clue as to how close to the final version it is but I was given the impression when I got it from Dr. Xin that it was the final but one never really knows till it is over. There seems to be two versions of a very late beta going around to those that have them, one sounds like a Reference amp while the other sounds like a fairly high end tube amp apparently. I understand August is the present time frame. 

 BTW, both your emails bounced me. Your PMs are full as well. Have you notice the post around where I have noted that I have a new tube amp that I have placed a deposit on. Email me if you want details, lets keep it out of this thread. Sorry folks for getting personal in this post but his email and PM bounced me.


----------



## Romanee

Received Guzziguy's (must do honorific initial cap) form SkyLab today. I'll be very busy all day, but will try to boost WAF and get at least a little listening time in tonight. After that I'll hook it up for constant play ("burn in") and make notes along the way. After having heard Justin's AE-2 at HeadFest, this is a very exciting opportunity.

 After I feel it's optimized and stable, and I've listened with a few phones and compared to a few portables (currently I only have Hornet, Tomahawk and Portaphile) and a few home amps (Aria, X-CanV3, RKV-MkII/OPA627) -- I'll ship it back to SkyLab so he can determine whether or not he hears any change from what he heard -- though sense memory, of course, is not very dependable.

 Actually, sense memory isn't always that bad, since I do have a reasonable clear recollection of comparing Asr's virgin AE-2 with his mature AE-1, and then hearing Justin's well-played AE-2 demos.

 …later…


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Goh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I know you've done a blind comparison between the Aria and Tomahawk, but have you done any other blind comparisons? I would love to read such an assessment on a variety of amps. I suspect that when price, portability, and looks are taken out of the equation, many will have difficulty determining which amp is "better" and which is "worse." If the results show that a sub-$100 sounds about the same as a $500 amp, it would greatly help those of us who are financially challenged. The listening impressions by you and other Head-fiers are valuable and greatly appreciated, but I long for something on a more absolute scale - i.e. "if getting the HD650 took your system from a 5 to an 8, upgrading to this amp will improve that to an 8.5." Has anything like this been attempted? If not, is it feasible?_

 

Check out my amp thread (in my sig)...

 Skylabs is a proper review for those looking into sound quality being the last word, which is the way it should be. No doubt about that.

 But us mere mortals sometimes have to deal with fundage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Especially me, as most fo the time, I'm as broke as a joke. My review takes what you described into consideration. Example? The PRII is my favorite amp by far...but it's #5 in the ranks...mainly because of price, ergos, etc...

 Check it out. The more amp reviews we have bumped to the top, the better...


----------



## Romanee

AE-2 update. Having received Guzziguy's AE-2 (which he hasn't yet heard!) from SkyLab this morning, I returned home late tonight and still didn't have time to hook it up.

 Typically, allergies woke me up around 4:30am so I set up the AE-2 side-by-side with Hornet, Tomahawk, Portaphile Maxed and MiniBox-E with my DT880-250/2005 for a quick check. 

 Time will tell, but to my ears the AE-2 sounds like an amp in need of lots more "burn in". It's definitely presenting some grit, slightly harsh edges, lack or air and quiet backgrounds, etc. -- overall not as musical or enjoyable as the other amps. It's not bad -- rather similar to the AE-1, though with a more contiguous spectrum. It seems to be rather edgy or fatiguing with more "artificial detail" than inner detail, none of which I felt about Justin's AE-2 units at HeadFest. In fact the early prototypes I heard were smoother, if less quick and snappy. 

 I've hooked it up to iTunes set to "repeat all" and the wall wart connected for 24/7 play. I'll check it periodically for progress.

 BTW - the MiniBox-E holds up nicely for the price against the other 3 amps, but mainly with the bass boost on. With the boost off, it's rather bass lean and midrange thin. With boost on the bass-thru-mids are warm and pleasantly forward. I'll have to collate my listening notes and write something more comprehensive on it.

 This isn't the right time for me to write more about anything, so that's it for now.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no comment on that - I don't think blind comparisons are the best way to judge audio components. But PLEASE let us not debate it in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This comment astounds me. Can you suggest somewhere else where we CAN debate this?


----------



## Skylab

It should astound you at all. If we start to debate it here this thread will fill up with a whole bunch of useless opinions on the matter (on both sides) and the thread will go horribly off-topic. Start a new thread about blind testing if you want to incite a riot. But NOT in my review thread, PLEASE.

 Note that there are some head-fi forums where you are not allowed to discuss blind testing at all. It's allowed in the amp forum, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not derail this thread with such a debate.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should astound you at all. If we start to debate it here this thread will fill up with a whole bunch of useless opinions on the matter (on both sides) and the thread will go horribly off-topic. Start a new thread about blind testing if you want to incite a riot. But NOT in my review thread, PLEASE.

 Note that there are some head-fi forums where you are not allowed to discuss blind testing at all. It's allowed in the amp forum, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not derail this thread with such a debate._

 

No, please don't get me wrong, I was not surprised by your fear of this thread going off-topic. I was just utterly confounded about your comment on blind tests in the first place because, at least to my understanding, there is no debate on this. Your comment came off to me like, "The world is flat," but maybe there are _scientific_ arguments against blind tests that I'm unaware of? If anyone is aware of such a counterargument, please PM me to start a thread. Otherwise, I have little interest in debating your interpretation of your experience.


----------



## Goh

Skylab, have you contacted anyone to try and procure an updated Xin Supermicro 4 or Xin Reference amp for comparison?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Goh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, have you contacted anyone to try and procure an updated Xin Supermicro 4 or Xin Reference amp for comparison?_

 

I am going to buy a Reference when they truly become available. Reviewing Xin amps is a bit of an exercise in frustration because it seems there is perpetually an upgraded version available


----------



## tbonner1

I respect the dedication to improve his products, but I agree it is a bit much. Xin needs help handling the administration of his business as he seems to be falling behind a bit due to the workload.


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AE-2 update. Having received Guzziguy's AE-2 (which he hasn't yet heard!) from SkyLab this morning, I returned home late tonight and still didn't have time to hook it up.
_

 

I won't have to hear it. By the time you and Skylab are done listening to and writing about it, I'll know exactly how it sounds!


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I won't have to hear it. By the time you and Skylab are done listening to and writing about it, I'll know exactly how it sounds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

HA! -- I mean … ROTFLMAO!

 A dyed-in-the-wool HeadFier if I ever saw - heard - read one. 

 AE-2 is playing all by itself.






 No need for me to interfere, eh? [I keeed. I keeed.]


----------



## jamato8

I must confess that I no longer listen to anything. I receive my joy by reading all of the experiences here and living vicariously through all of you and the acollades tossed with glee, and with this I am set free. 

 I lie. Keeping the batteries charged for my Reference as it leads this feeble mind down the path delights the auditory blisstitude.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must confess that I no longer listen to anything. I receive my joy by reading all of the experiences here and living vicariously through all of you and the acollades tossed with glee, and with this I am set free. 

 I lie. Keeping the batteries charged for my Reference as it leads this feeble mind down the path delights the auditory blisstitude._

 


 Enlightened One Number 2 (3?)!!

 Perhaps the founding members of:

 Calm Ears and Calm Spirits
 Empty Heads Sense The Transparent Air's Nuance
 Open Minds Fer Sure Anonymous 

 (CEACPEHSTTANOMFSA)

 (Can't have a short name or easy acronym - that wouldn't be complicated or affected enough.)

 Of course each member would have his/her own "haiku" association name, which would properly obviate the impossibility of member-to-member communication or meetings.


----------



## applevalleyjoe

Skylab, thoroughly enjoyed your timely review. Appreciate your efforts on our behalf. I was originally looking at enhanced CMOY's and the Little Dot MK I for my first headamp but after reading your thoughts, have decided to save my pennies and go for either a Meier or Ray Samuels product. Will you be updating your review to include the number of Chinese products coming into the market?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words. The only amp currently in the review cue is the MicroShar uAmp. I'm only reviewing amps now that I get as loaners


----------



## antonyfirst

Sky, if I didn't live in Italy, I'd send you my Supermini III and JMT Portable Pimeta. I think both would rank highly in your list.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. The only amp currently in the review cue is the MicroShar uAmp. I'm only reviewing amps now that I get as loaners 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

O.K...I saw the price drop on that amp, went to their site, was actually somewhat open to the idea that this might be a quality, sleeper amp at a suspiciously low price...

 They claim on their site that this thing can drive 8 Ohm speakers?!!! Will you try that as part of your review, Skylab? I'm incredibly curious.

 P.S. Your work in this thread blows away the nonsense that I routinely see published on certain commercial sites by people who are actually paid for their efforts. You rock, dude...


----------



## Romanee

MicroShar amp looks like a PA2V2 clone!


----------



## dissembled

Corda Move seems lucrative indeed. Does anyone know what headphones it can't drive with assertion? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm specifically looking at the 250 ohm DT880 at the moment. Since these were one of the test headphones Skylab used, I'm guessing I shouldn't be too worried.


----------



## MaloS

Just a total side note. Skylab, if you are going to do Lisa III, don't be shy, give RSA XP-7 and Headroom MicroAmp the treatment too =] I personally consider the Lisa in a different category, not portable anymore.


----------



## wakeride74

I think they are placing it into the "transportable" category. Like the XP-7 and HR Desktop it can operate on battery power and thus is "portable" but obviously too large to be in the same league as amps like the Move or Hornet... hell even the PRII is a stretch!

 If the Lisa does enter this thread I would like to see it morph into a "portable/transportable" round up to include the HR Desktop Portable and the XP-7 with AD797's


----------



## Hellenback

Hello Skylab, I hope this is an appropriate place to ask this question and that I am not butting in on anyone.
 I have read your informative and well written reviews and want to thank you for all your work. I have a question for you about the SQ difference between the best portables and a desktop like the Arietta. I understand it is only your opinion but I will never get the opportunity to hear all these amps for myself and I believe your opinions are very well founded. I use HD600s and truly need an amp for them. I have been using one of the portables in the middle tier of your review ranking for a month or so and find it clips at higher volume. It also seems to have some sibilance and I don't hear much difference between it and my Yamaha receiver and/or CD player headphone out.
 Any comments on the SQ of a desktop under $300 compared to a portable would be a great help to me. 
 Thanks again for all the work you have done and I look forward to a short comment and/or recommendation for a desktop under $300.


----------



## Skylab

The very top portable amps sound quite close to home amps of the same price, but the home amps have an edge, so if portable isn't needed, I think you get more amp for the money if you buy a home amp.


----------



## Skylab

Just added:

*Update 8-5-07*

*> MicroShar uAmp107*

 Info:  http://microshar.com/index.php?cPath=21_23 

 I was leant a Microshar uAmp107 by the manufacturer. See the above link for a full description. The “list” price of the amp is $135, but it seems to be on sale a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . It features an interesting turn-on function in that it powers itself on when both the input jack and headphones are connected. Sounds cool, except for the fairly loud click that occurs when it powers up, that you can only avoid by not having your headphones on/in. 

 The amp’s built in battery lasts FOREVER – I never really did fully run it down, in spite of using it over 100 hours to break in the amp TWICE. Very cool. Comes with a charger. 

*Build Quality*: B: sturdy but cheap-looking plastic case. The amp also has sone audible hiss at all volume levels with low-impedance headphones, even the 70-ohm HD25-1’s. And there’s that turn-on click. 
*Treble*: B+: Treble is detailed, with a slight bite/edge, but it’s clean. Lacks the very top end extension, but what’s there isn’t overly-laid back, so it doesn’t seem closed-in.
*Midrange*: B+: Open and enjoyable. Nice and neutral. Slightly forward. It makes it seem exciting at first, but in the end I prefer the slightly lusher midrange of the Meier Move or the mSeed Spirit. However, the mids are very enjoyable on their own terms..
*Bass:* A-: Good definition and depth. Not the tightest ever, but nice and punchy. Very enjoyable bass.. Great pace and rhythm. 
*Neutrality:* A-: Nicely neutral; only detraction is the ever so slightly forward mids. But this is NOT a colored sounding amp, as so many portable amps under $200 seem to be.
*Soundstaging:* A-: Very good depth, good width. Very good image specificity. Quite enjoyable SS presentation.
*Transparency:* B+: It loses points here for the hiss. Otherwise quite good.. 

 The uAmp is a very good amp. For $135, it’s tempting to recommend the mSeed Spirit instead, which I slightly prefer. But for the $85 that it’s currently listed as being available for on the Microshar website, it’s a ridiculous screaming bargain and everyone should go buy one to throw in their briefcase just for the wicked-long battery life! A very nice sounding little amp, that has a few rough spots, but whose overall performance hits way above it’s price class.

*Conclusions (8/5/07)*


 OK, so now its now 24 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 1. Meier Audio MOVE
 2. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Hornet “M”
 4. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 5. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 6. Xin SuperMicro IV
 7. Headamp AE-2
 8. Portaphile V2^2
 9. Storm B-4
 10. mSeed Spirit
 11. iBasso P-1
 12. Microshar uAmp107
 12. Practical Devices XM4
 13. C&C XO
 13. iBasso T2
 14. Go-Vibe 6
 15. Xtra X-1 Pro
 16. Xenos 0HA-REP
 16. iBasso T1
 17. Xtra X-1
 18. C&C Box V2
 19. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## kamal007

arent the uamp107 $56 (promo period til Aug 10th)?


----------



## Skylab

It seems like it from their website, and if so, that is an ABSURD bargain! For that price it's a shockingly good deal.


----------



## daveyostrow

just noticed that too, from the go-vibe v5s im hoping its a big jump.


----------



## eomcall

Thanks for the excellent review Skylab. This is my first portable amp. I took a chance on it because of the price. I'm no expert but it does sound pretty good to me. 
 Did you have the standard gain amp? I did find with my SR60 Grados and Sansa c140 I could max out both volume levels and it would not be too loud, distort or be uncomfortable. I'm wondering if the high gain option would give a little more head room.
 Again nice amp and excellent review.
 Errol


----------



## Cecala

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think they are placing it into the "transportable" category. Like the XP-7 and HR Desktop it can operate on battery power and thus is "portable" but obviously too large to be in the same league as amps like the Move or Hornet... hell even the PRII is a stretch!

 If the Lisa does enter this thread I would like to see it morph into a "portable/transportable" round up to include the HR Desktop Portable and the XP-7 with AD797's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes I agree absolutely.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eomcall* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the excellent review Skylab. This is my first portable amp. I took a chance on it because of the price. I'm no expert but it does sound pretty good to me. 
 Did you have the standard gain amp? I did find with my SR60 Grados and Sansa c140 I could max out both volume levels and it would not be too loud, distort or be uncomfortable. I'm wondering if the high gain option would give a little more head room.
 Again nice amp and excellent review.
 Errol_

 

Errol:

 Your post worries me. Just because it plays without distortion doesn't mean you aren't listening WAY too loud. 

 I am guessing I have the high-gain version due to the slight hiss I heard, and the fact that I couldn't put the volume past 10:00 without having it be way too loud.

 Wakerider et. al.:

 I have decided the Lisa III does not belong in this thread. It's just too big to be considered portable, and this review does not include transportables.

 The Lisa III sounds better than any of the amps in this review, but it's kind of a different breed.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Errol:

 Your post worries me. Just because it plays without distortion doesn't mean you aren't listening WAY too loud. 

 I am guessing I have the high-gain version due to the slight hiss I heard, and the fact that I couldn't put the volume past 10:00 without having it be way too loud.

 Wakerider et. al.:

 I have decided the Lisa III does not belong in this thread. It's just too big to be considered portable, and this review does not include transportables.

 The Lisa III sounds better than any of the amps in this review, but it's kind of a different breed._

 

The line has been drawn at the PRII
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok so who wants to do a transportable round up!? There are not too many so should be easy


----------



## eomcall

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Errol:

 Your post worries me. Just because it plays without distortion doesn't mean you aren't listening WAY too loud. 

 I am guessing I have the high-gain version due to the slight hiss I heard, and the fact that I couldn't put the volume past 10:00 without having it be way too loud.
_

 

I was thinking that there would be more range on the volume. Portables are new to me so I have a lot to learn. But no I actually don't like real loud music anyway. I usually listen at moderate levels. But thanks for your comment. I will take heed.


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wakeride74* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The line has been drawn at the PRII
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok so who wants to do a transportable round up!? There are not too many so should be easy
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think this will kill him to maintain two threads and endless testings.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this will kill him to maintain two threads and endless testings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right you are, it will NOT be me testing transportables


----------



## splawren

So, why isn't this a sticky yet, and what about the other "multi-amp-superreview" threads? Exactly how many amps does one have to review to get sticky status? Maybe all of them . . .


----------



## driftingbunnies

i'm not too sure if anybody talked about the z-audio amps yet. didn't want to look through 54 pages on this thread. but are those amps considered portable? they look fairly small to me. just wondering why they haven't been reviewed.


----------



## ManAtWork

Skylab who stated that he review the amplifier only he owns, intends to buy or lend by users. I think that's why the z-audio amps were not included.


----------



## driftingbunnies

nobody has any z-audios skylab can borrow? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'm most interested in the mu but it's hard to find threads because mu is too short of a word. anybody have any opinions on it like how it ranks in that list of amps?


----------



## Wotan1

It's my experience that sound volume is essential in comparing amps. A slightly higher volume might be perceived as a difference in sound and sound quality. How do you ensure the same volume when comparing amps? Or is this just my own experience and my brains/ears malfunctioning.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wotan1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's my experience that sound volume is essential in comparing amps. A slightly higher volume might be perceived as a difference in sound and sound quality. How do you ensure the same volume when comparing amps? Or is this just my own experience and my brains/ears malfunctioning._

 

This is actually covered at the beginning of my review. I use an SPL meter to level-match the amps. With pink noise this is really quite accurate.

 As for the Z-Audio amp, yeah, unless it's maker or a head-fier loans me one, it won't get reviewed - I am no longer buying portable amps in order to review them. I had originally intended this review to be 9 amps


----------



## Hellenback

Skylab, 
 You gave two A three A- and two B+ to the XM4
 You gave three A- two B- and the only B for the Microshar! 
 Then you rate them equal! (and even list the Microshar first). 
 Even considering the sum of all parts theory you subscribe to this seems a little odd. (Even considering price as it is supposedly SQ only) 
 The XM4 has WAY more features and no click/thump issues. Seems a little odd to me but who am I to argue?

 PS If you want a lower price on the XM4 it can be won in auction on Ebay and NO I do not have ANY vested interest in this amp!


----------



## Skylab

The XM4 is a very nice amp, but it was in the very first group, and as a result I rated it higher than I would now. I have not gone back to revise the grades. Since this review was done in stages over a very long time, you have to take that into account, and look at the final version of the rankings. If you are trying to use this review as a buying guide of some sort, which I actually discourage, you should pay more attention to the descriptions of the various parameters than the grades themselves, and use the grades as an indication of the relative strength in that area.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The XM4 is a very nice amp, but it was in the very first group, and as a result I rated it higher than I would now. I have not gone back to revise the grades. Since this review was done in stages over a very long time, you have to take that into account, and look at the final version of the rankings. 

  Quote:


 If you are trying to use this review as a buying guide of some sort, which I actually discourage, you should pay more attention to the descriptions of the various parameters than the grades themselves, and use the grades as an indication of the relative strength in that area 
 

._

 

Well, I suppose I need to take you at your word, but I think a lot of people on limited incomes (and those of us unable to audition many (if not most) of these amps) use your reviews for exactly this purpose. In fact Microshar stated on it's site that it was waiting for YOUR review of their amp before they were going to post their own review! Like it or not Skylab, you have become the de facto authority on portable amps! Again, thank you for your work.


----------



## Skylab

My only point is that this review should just ONE PART of the review process in deciding on what amp to buy, along with the other reviews, and threads, here on head-fi


----------



## globiboulga

Hi Skylab,

 I have a suggestion for you: add a little mark besides the amps that are best buys in your opinion based on:
 - sound vs price
 - service

 In short, that would help highlights good buys that are not sounding the best and rule out some great amps because of services issues.

 For example a $85 amp that sounds good is a good buy considering its price point. A $500 amp that sounds great is not that good of a bargain given the competition.
 Moreover some brands seem to also took a huge time to ship amps, which should be highlitghed somehow (Xin, Larroco).

 And that thread, and all comparison threads should be sticky.

 Thanks for the good work. Hope you can review the iBasso D1 something in the future.


----------



## Skylab

Good suggestions, thanks. I will think about how best to cover that.


----------



## Chris_Himself

skylab do you think the microshar could power some K601s? im considering a MOVE, but im going to have to wait until my next check for it, or just get the micro stack combo after the norcal meet.

 any tips?


----------



## mdarnton

Well, the nice thing about this world is that anyone can write and post their own reviews. So if you have problems with what you see, get going. But they'd better be better reading than "I downgraded so-and-so because he's a sponsor and that makes everything anyone says about him suspect".


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heretical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't confuse a strongly felt criticism with an insult - that's not what it was meant to be. And please don't try and engage me into a quarrel involving Jude - that's not what I meant, also! Why not just accept it as it is and go ahead as you will, if you're so confident about your job!_

 

Andrea:

 Criticism is fine. I have NO ISSUE with you saying "I think amp ZZZ should be ranked much higher". That's fine.

 But you have accused me of SO many things, for no good reason, it's very hard not to defend myself! In this case, you accuse me of biasing my review toward head-fi sponsors. That is NOT "criticism". That is an insult. What possible motivation could I even have for such a bias? I have no connection with Head-fi other than liking the website and being a contributing member here. Who sponsors head-fi is of no particular importance to me. And I have rated Ray Samuels amps very highly, and he's not a sponsor here. Nor is Larocco audio.

 I guess the point is this: there is no reason for you to post what you did OTHER than to antagonize me. And I wish you would stop! You ask me not to engage you in a quarrel, but it is you, sir, that comes in here with guns blazing, not me.


----------



## flashbak

Now boys let's behave! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will have to defend Skylab's integrity here....He has been a wonderful contributor to this community and alot of folks (especially new ones) are very appreciative of his reviews! Many have used them as a form of guidance in their purchasing decisions. Excuse me, but I somehow missed what your contribution is/was here? He has on numerous occasions always stated it is his opinion. Everyone has the choice to agree or disagree, but because of your disagreement that in no way gives you the right to question his integrity!


----------



## tstarn06

X2. Alleging a bias for advertisers is BS. Do you have proof? And as Skylab notes, to what end does favoring advertisers benefit him? Deliver some proof if you have it, apart from your hunches/conjecture. If not, what's the point?


----------



## hardstyler

I found Skylab's review to be extremely helpfull. The Xenos amp I bought sounds exactly like he described it, a great amp for the price although Move is probably a better deal now.


----------



## jamato8

I have to admit, I am biased, to what I hear and I would bet my new D1 Skylab is biased in the same way, heck, I will even throw in my R, Ref, Reference. :^)


----------



## islewind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is actually covered at the beginning of my review. I use an SPL meter to level-match the amps. With pink noise this is really quite accurate._

 

It is good that you are level matching, unfortunately, only level matching to 1db (which I understand is the best you can do with the Radio Shack meter, so I'm not knocking your attempt to get as close as you can) isn't close enough. There are many differences that will often be perceived as sound quality rather than volume differences unless levels are matched to within *.1* db.


----------



## islewind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for your insinuation that I rank head-fi sponsor amps higher, I will not dignify that with a response, it's just another in a long line of unwarranted insults from you. Only Jude can decide whether you stay or go at head-fi, but I really do wish you wouldn't come into this thread just to insult me._

 

I don't think there's even the slightest grounds to criticize Skylab's integrity here. Maybe he hasn't tested with the same methodology, or reached the same subjective conclusions, that some of this thread's readers (myself included) would have, but at least he took the considerable time and effort to do it and write about it. Along the way he has provided loads of useful insights and information. And he has clearly done it in a reasonable way, with an open an honest approach and tone. This is the sort of content that makes a forum useful. Thanks Skylab!


----------



## flashbak

.1db? I don't even think that is discernible by the human ear!


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *islewind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is good that you are level matching, unfortunately, only level matching to 1db (which I understand is the best you can do with the Radio Shack meter, so I'm not knocking your attempt to get as close as you can) isn't close enough. There are many differences that will often be perceived as sound quality rather than volume differences unless levels are matched to within *.1* db._

 

What equipment and methodology do you recommend in this regard?


----------



## Filburt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What equipment and methodology do you recommend in this regard?_

 

Well, if you could match the output impedance to that of your source, you could probably use a function generator and a scope, and match levels from each amp that way


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heretical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just heavily disagree with his ranking for the part I'm familiar with. For the record. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The difference is that with Skylab's notes I can understand how the units probably sound whether I like what they sound like or not. By the way there are some that he has ranked fairly high which I personally would not but that does not detract from his contribution in my understanding how each may sound. 

 If I am not mistaken another group just attempted to do another comparison of many of these amps. This also is of a positive contribution to my understanding of how these units sound. 

 With you all I are get is negative opinions about Skylab's rankings. Why not purchase those 20 some odd amps and do your own review providing your own impressions so that your opinion can be considered as being additive instead of a distraction to the community?


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heretical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's the use that newbies seem to make of it/him that's a bit less convincing; but I may be wrong. Matter closed.





_

 

And what is that? Just wondering, since you haven't made that point at all. This is a perfect thread for newbies to start with no references or anything.


----------



## evilking

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *souperman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...This is a perfect thread for newbies to start with no references or anything._

 


 I don't find this to be true at all. If I came here with no prior knowledge/experience and read skylab's review, I'd have wasted a lot of money. Without knowing his preferences for sound or the signature of the headphones he uses during testing (assuming I'd never heard of them), this sort of comparison is pretty useless (to a newbie).

 To an experienced Head-Fier who has listened to at least one of the amps tested and has a vague idea of the sig of the headphones, this kind of comparison review is invaluable!


 EDIT: I have no idea whats been going on after the review in this thread. This my own opinion and it supports no-one elses.


----------



## Fred333

Skylab,

 Thanks for that great review. I have been reading tons of mags looking for a list like that one. Thanks again.


----------



## holland

That's why Skylab prefaces it as not a buying guide, but a ranking by his own ears.

 Both sides have valid points.

 I'm a relative newb, while I do reference Skylab's guide, it in no way influences me or my buying decisions. I read it more for his notes in the breakdown, and not the ranking. Unfortunately, everybody wants rankings, and then the bickering around those rankings begin.


----------



## Skylab

I appreciate all the kind words from everyone. This review is, and has always been, just my opinion, and should not be used as anything more than a jumping off point for newbies to begin their research.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heretical* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Matter closed.





_

 

Excellent - for me as well. I'd really like to talk about AMPS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I am VERY sorry to see the following posted on their website:

  Quote:


 Xenos Audio is Discontinued

 ATP Systems no longer manufactures, distributes or sells Xenos Audio Products.

 For warranty issues please send an email to: 2.support@aptecpro.com 
 

That is a big loss for us all.


----------



## dw6928

I just gave my son my Xenos 1HA-EPC to take to college this week. What a shame, what a wonderful portable amp that had terrific tech support. True, Skylab, a loss for us all.


----------



## DDF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What equipment and methodology do you recommend in this regard?_

 

I used to do this sort of thing for a living, such as measure headsets.

 Measuring headsets accurately is incredibly difficult. The standard method is an artificial ear (such as a HATS or Kemar, or a telecom pinna from B&K), then to take the result and run it through an algorithm which calculates a model of the loudness (from standards ITU-T P.65 and P.79). 

 Even then, after throwing $1000s of dollars of test gear and all this work, the loudness rating you get is only an approximation. There are too many person to person variables related to leakage and fit to ensure that the result represents what you hear. The lesson learned here is that its nearly impossible to level match across different headphones and people. 

 The best one can do is use the exact same headphone when making detailed qualitative comparisons. With these, the amps should be calibrated electrically: o/p pink noise to the headset, and using a "Y" splitter so that the phones electrically load the amp, measure the voltage presented to it using an AC voltmeter. Then, you'll be guaranteed the same average voltage into the headphones. The y splitter should be used to compensate for differing o/p impedances of the amps.

 To make the review complete, then you can compare with different phones, but each time level matching electrically into the same can.

 The fact that Skylab level matches at all is gravy. Differences in source equipment (dacs), the house sound one is used to etc will be enough to add uncertainty to any review, of anything, even with level matching. You gotta take these for what they are, and Sky has never presented them as anything more. 

 Sounds like a royal pain in the arse to me. I'm happy and grateful with Sky sitting down and sharing his comparison notes at all. 

 Just bought a Gilmore Lite today. It would have been great to see something like this for home amps before I ordered.


----------



## kwkarth

Awesome body of work Sky.
 Thanks,
 -kwkarth


----------



## scompton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evilking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't find this to be true at all. If I came here with no prior knowledge/experience and read skylab's review, I'd have wasted a lot of money. Without knowing his preferences for sound or the signature of the headphones he uses during testing (assuming I'd never heard of them), this sort of comparison is pretty useless (to a newbie).

 To an experienced Head-Fier who has listened to at least one of the amps tested and has a vague idea of the sig of the headphones, this kind of comparison review is invaluable!


 EDIT: I have no idea whats been going on after the review in this thread. This my own opinion and it supports no-one elses._

 

I disagree with this for the most part. I was essentially a noob when I bought a couple of amps based on Skylab's reviews and mrarryao and voltran's first set of reviews. I joined in 2005 to ask a few questions and came back in January when my IEMs broke. I didn't buy the most expensive amps in the reviews. I had a budget that put me near the bottom of the reviews. I was able to make an informed choice because of them. Without the reviews, I would have had nothing to go on, maybe bought a boosteroo
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, the first amp I bought was a FOTM, the iBasso T1. It's the only one I'm not satisfied with.


----------



## richierich

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a royal pain in the arse to me. I'm happy and grateful with Sky sitting down and sharing his comparison notes at all. _

 

Thank you. Couldn't have said it any better.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...If I am not mistaken another group just attempted to do another comparison of many of these amps..._

 

Can you point me to that post? Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you point me to that post? Thanks._

 

Pretty sure he's talking about you!


----------



## slwiser

^I am fairly sure you are right...do I need to find the link?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^I am fairly sure you are right...do I need to find the link?_

 

No need to find the link. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was hoping you were not referring about that post when you wrote  Quote:


 ...If I am not mistaken another group just attempted to do another comparison of many of these amps... 
 

I say so because I thought we had actually written a comparison rather than "attempted to" write one. Also for the record the 1st post of that "attempt" was first posted here via posts 1 (10/14/06) and 21 (10/18/06) in: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=203445

 Just shedding some light on the terrain we find ourselves currently deployed.


----------



## slwiser

mrarroyo

 Of course it was a full fledged comparison. The term "attempted to" is just a turn of a poor phrase by me and I am sorry if it conveys the wrong message. I hope you accept this apology. 

 I do not attempt to do this but I seem to be doing this a lot around here, that is offending people.


----------



## islewind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What equipment and methodology do you recommend in this regard?_

 

Many high-resolution SPL meters are quite expensive, often $3-5K, with all sorts of extra features, such as the meters by Quest.

 I know of one meter, from TES that is reasonably priced that has high resolution, and the company that distributes them is very service-oriented.

 The tougher part is the interface with the headphone, very difficult to match well among different headphones due to differences in head shape and outer ear shape and size. That's why Tyll had to spend $20,000 on an instrumented head for their testing. Fortunately, for comparisons of other components such as amps, the headphone can be standardized and a relatively simple acoustic coupler can be used to position the microphone. The issue remains of outside sound leaking in and affecting the results, but taking some baseline room measurements first can help determine how noisy the environment is (we often are so accustomed to the background noise in our own environments that we cease to notice them.) Sometimes picking a certain time of day to do your testing will yield the quietest background, unless you live in Manhattan.


 ....Also, repeated thanks to Skylab for putting so much time and energy into his reviews, using an honest and open approach, and generally contributing great content to these forums.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evilking* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't find this to be true at all. If I came here with no prior knowledge/experience and read skylab's review, I'd have wasted a lot of money. Without knowing his preferences for sound or the signature of the headphones he uses during testing (assuming I'd never heard of them), this sort of comparison is pretty useless (to a newbie).

 To an experienced Head-Fier who has listened to at least one of the amps tested and has a vague idea of the sig of the headphones, this kind of comparison review is invaluable!_

 

I disagree. Knowing that Skylab favors heavier bass from his beyer cans, as a newbie I factored that in to pick my 1st amp. Liked it so much it gave me the confidence to make the leap to a decent home amp and I've not been disappointed.

 At this point I've heard a few of his other reviews and the rankings are honest and spot-on. His rankings adjusted for my tastes have been very good; I pick other amps such as the Hornet, ranked better to Skylab's tastes yet I find them less enjoyable as expected.

 I can see your point; if a newbie just picked #1 Larroco they might be disappointed if they weren't a basshead. But, if the newbie doesn't read the body of the reviews for treble, soundstage, etc. or ignores them, they've gotten out what they put into it. It is disingenuous to hang that problem on Skylab's review (or Mrarroyo or anyone else that writes a review).


----------



## globiboulga

Let me give you my point of view as a noob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What Sky gives is an introduction to the world of portable amps. While I do not understand all that is said in the detailed reviews (but, hey I am learning remember) and I know that source, headphones, personal taste and testing environment are important, I get what I desperatly need from someone who is knowledgeable: a background, a landscape, something that gives me a sense of direction and a valuable introduction to the world of porable amps.

 It might turn out, if I become addicted to amps, that I will disagree with his ranking, in the meantime I have to start somewhere and to have background, and a review, such as Sky's is a goldmine.

 I will buy a couple of the babies, read the review again and decide how I (and my headphones, and my tastes, and my environment, and my sources) compare and it will put all in perspective. Yeah, there is a risk that I might be disappointed, but then what? Should I order an amp just out of pure luck? This is ridiculous...

 Let me praise you Skylab, and thank you once again: you've done something that I've never seen a Hi-Fi magazine do: you gave your opinion... (don't let me start on Hi-Fi magazines reviews that always end up saying that all products are good, except the super expensive ones that are brilliant...)

 Waiting to be able to disagree with a solid argumentation on your ranking, I salute you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and I hope someone would have the balls, the time and the money to do the same with regular headphones amps and the same with dacs.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome body of work Sky.
 Thanks,
 -kwkarth_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *globiboulga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let me give you my point of view as a noob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Let me praise you Skylab, and thank you once again: you've done something that I've never seen a Hi-Fi magazine do: you gave your opinion... (don't let me start on Hi-Fi magazines reviews that always end up saying that all products are good, except the super expensive ones that are brilliant...)_

 

Thanks Guys! I really appreciate that.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *islewind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Fortunately, for comparisons of other components such as amps, the headphone can be standardized and a relatively simple acoustic coupler can be used to position the microphone. 


 ....Also, repeated thanks to Skylab for putting so much time and energy into his reviews, using an honest and open approach, and generally contributing great content to these forums._

 

Thanks Islewind! And actually, I use that EXACT coupler in taking my SPL measurements (the "semi-professional" coupler). Funny story though: I ordered it from that company, but I confess I was a little ticked off to find out it was a $2 hockey puck (literally) with a hole drilled in the middle. Anyone can make one of those couplers by going to a hockey store, buying a puck, and then drilling it for a hole exactly the size of the RS meter's mic.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *islewind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many high-resolution SPL meters are quite expensive, often $3-5K, with all sorts of extra features, such as the meters by Quest.

 I know of one meter, from TES that is reasonably priced that has high resolution, and the company that distributes them is very service-oriented.

 The tougher part is the interface with the headphone, very difficult to match well among different headphones due to differences in head shape and outer ear shape and size. That's why Tyll had to spend $20,000 on an instrumented head for their testing. Fortunately, for comparisons of other components such as amps, the headphone can be standardized and a relatively simple acoustic coupler can be used to position the microphone. The issue remains of outside sound leaking in and affecting the results, but taking some baseline room measurements first can help determine how noisy the environment is (we often are so accustomed to the background noise in our own environments that we cease to notice them.) Sometimes picking a certain time of day to do your testing will yield the quietest background, unless you live in Manhattan.


 ....Also, repeated thanks to Skylab for putting so much time and energy into his reviews, using an honest and open approach, and generally contributing great content to these forums._

 

Thanks Very Much for the information! I am familiar with the TES unit … but then again, I paid $20 + shipping on ebay for the RS 2055 meter. If I bump into a nice TES unit at a bargain price I will certainly upgrade.

 The DR1-DR2 calibrator & coupler system looks very nice, but at $495 it's well over my currently available budget. I suppose if I could afford that, I could afford to buy whatever portable amp I'd like to audition. Sigh.

 Something nice to look forward to, tho', since I've compared many amps in the past, and seem to do so rather frequently (to my great fortune).


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mrarroyo

 Of course it was a full fledged comparison. The term "attempted to" is just a turn of a poor phrase by me and I am sorry if it conveys the wrong message. I hope you accept this apology. 

 I do not attempt to do this but I seem to be doing this a lot around here, that is offending people._

 

No apology needed, in hindsight have been the fact I am not a native speaker of the english language could have added to the confusion. Thanks.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No apology needed, in hindsight have been the fact I am not a native speaker of the english language could have added to the confusion. Thanks._

 

I don't speak real English either, apparently. I grew up in rural Tennessee back in the '50s when rigor in teaching English was less than stellar. So I joke about it saying that I speak "Tennessee'ese" and apparently write that way too.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't speak real English either, apparently. I grew up in rural Tennessee back in the '50s when rigor in teaching English was less than stellar. So I joke about it saying that I speak "Tennessee'ese" and apparently write than way too._

 

Small world, I lived in Spring City and in Chattanooga for over 8 years (82-90) while working for TVA. Loved the place and the people.


----------



## Skylab

LOL! I lived in Sewanee TN, 40 minutes from Chattanooga, from 1977-1984! My parents still live there. Small world, indeed.


----------



## evilking

I guess I was wrong about you newbies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I came here long before these massive comparison reviews and so my audio journey/quest was much different.

 Regardless, more information is always beneficial so no-one should be complaining.


 Cheers,
 EK


----------



## Hellenback

Skylab,
 I noticed you have a Sound Devices HX-3 in your portable lineup. As you didn't rate it in the review I am wondering how you might rank it compared to the other amps like the Move or the RS amps? (I am going a little mad trying to decide on an amp!) Thanks for your input.

 EDIT: Sorry Skylab, just found your write up on the HX-3. Still as it was in '06 a direct comparison to the newer amps mentioned would be VERY helpful. Thanks for your time and any reply.(Xin Reference comparison would be great too as it is on my "very" short list!)


----------



## Skylab

I'd love to get a Xin reference, but that may be tough. 

 As for the Sound Devices amp, you know it's a pro amp, right? It's not really small or light. Not the kind of thing that one would bring around for listening portably. And it doesn't sound quite as good as the top 10 or 11 amps here. That said, you could run over the Sound Devices amp with a truck, and it would very likely sustain no damage...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to get a Xin reference, but that may be tough..._

 

Once I get the new board to replace the one on the Beta Reference I have, and I burn it in for at least 400 hours I will send it to you. I could send you the Beta Reference I have but it is from mid/late May and a lot has been changed in the last 12 weeks or so.


----------



## Skylab

COOL! Thanks Mrarroyo! I will wait for the "finished" version (as finished as any Xin amp ever is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## KenW

Skylab....have you had the chance to hear the iBasso D1 yet? Don't recall seeing any comments on that one in this thread. Did I miss it?


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to get a Xin reference, but that may be tough. 

 As for the Sound Devices amp, you know it's a pro amp, right? It's not really small or light. Not the kind of thing that one would bring around for listening portably. And it doesn't sound quite as good as the top 10 or 11 amps here. That said, you could run over the Sound Devices amp with a truck, and it would very likely sustain no damage..._

 


 I'm aware of the fact that it is a pro amp. My interest was peaked when you said in your review that it wasn't bettered by the Aria by much at all. Add that to a previous comment about desktops (Aria) sounding better in general than portables and I thought we might have a winner here. It is hard to keep up with what seems at times to be contradictory information. This is not meant as an insult in any way. Just a comment from someone on a limited budget, $300 ($400 max all in) who wants a good amp for his HD 600s. Portability isn't an issue for me but if one is getting the same performance out of a portable for the same money then there seems little reason to get a desktop. Thanks for any more illumination on this. The Presonus Central Station is a pro amp as well but is ranked very high in the desktop review. Anybody want to go out on a limb and say what they think would be the best synergy with 600s with the one qualification that I might be trading them in for 650s? I promise I won't hold yor feet to the fire!


----------



## balanceofpower

I'm pretty pleased with the Little Dot Micro+ (especially for the $50 or so I paid for it). Interesting to see it finish dead last here. I'd be more curious in how the Little Dot++ compares with the other big guns there. Appreciate the post, as I'm looking for another amp to supplement this one.


----------



## soloz2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *balanceofpower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty pleased with the Little Dot Micro+ (especially for the $50 or so I paid for it). Interesting to see it finish dead last here. I'd be more curious in how the Little Dot++ compares with the other big guns there. Appreciate the post, as I'm looking for another amp to supplement this one._

 

there are some great posts about the LDII series of amps here if you search. There aren't many more because the amp isn't made anymore. But if you can find one that doesn't arc you'll have yourself a winner


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm aware of the fact that it is a pro amp. My interest was peaked when you said in your review that it wasn't bettered by the Aria by much at all. Add that to a previous comment about desktops (Aria) sounding better in general than portables and I thought we might have a winner here. It is hard to keep up with what seems at times to be contradictory information. This is not meant as an insult in any way. Just a comment from someone on a limited budget, $300 ($400 max all in) who wants a good amp for his HD 600s. Portability isn't an issue for me but if one is getting the same performance out of a portable for the same money then there seems little reason to get a desktop. Thanks for any more illumination on this. The Presonus Central Station is a pro amp as well but is ranked very high in the desktop review. Anybody want to go out on a limb and say what they think would be the best synergy with 600s with the one qualification that I might be trading them in for 650s? I promise I won't hold yor feet to the fire!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You have to look at WHEN things were written. When I wrote the HX3 review I hadn't heard the vast majority of these amps. Nor, in fairness, have I actually compared them to the HX3. Maybe I should 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I didn't need portability, I would take the Aria for the under $400 price range, no doubt.


----------



## dogday

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KenW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab....have you had the chance to hear the iBasso D1 yet? Don't recall seeing any comments on that one in this thread. Did I miss it?_

 

I'm also very curious to read how the D1 stacks up against the competition...


----------



## Skylab

I have requested a review sample, but no idea if I will get one or not. iBasso has been very nice about that in the past.


----------



## Hellenback

When I wrote the HX3 review I hadn't heard the vast majority of these amps. Nor, in fairness, have I actually compared them to the HX3.  Quote:


 Maybe I should 
 

This would be a great help as the HX3 is readily available here in Toronto (unlike most of the other amps). Thanks for your recommendation as well. It is just about what I have come up with through months of searching. I was considering the Arietta but thought it might not be quite enough for the Senns. Both your and mrarroyo's reviews have been a big help. 
 PS. Has anyone compared the Arietta to some of the better portables?


----------



## KenW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have requested a review sample, but no idea if I will get one or not. iBasso has been very nice about that in the past._

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. Team minimal anxiously awaits your review.


----------



## Skylab

I am happy to report that iBasso has graciously agreed to loan me a D1 for review


----------



## scompton

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am happy to report that iBasso has graciously agreed to loan me a D1 for review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

My bet is they monitor this thread


----------



## tek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am happy to report that iBasso has graciously agreed to loan me a D1 for review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

waiting in eager anticipation heh.


----------



## spunkmeyer

Skylab, that's great. Can't wait to see not only your review, but how it stacks up in your opinion against the others. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Asr

For an alternate take on the Practical Devices XM4, my review of it is now up over at StereoMojo: http://www.stereomojo.com/PracticalD...eamplifier.htm

 Sonically, I found the XM4 inferior to the Xenos 1HA-EPC and RSA Hornet M. I'd take it in a heartbeat over the Go-Vibe V6 though. I don't think the V6 is that great-sounding of an amp. In comparison to the iBasso T2, well I can't say anything right now. A review of that will be coming very soon...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For an alternate take on the Practical Devices XM4, my review of it is now up over at StereoMojo: http://www.stereomojo.com/PracticalD...eamplifier.htm

 Sonically, I found the XM4 inferior to the Xenos 1HA-EPC and RSA Hornet M. I'd take it in a heartbeat over the Go-Vibe V6 though. I don't think the V6 is that great-sounding of an amp. In comparison to the iBasso T2, well I can't say anything right now. A review of that will be coming very soon..._

 

The XM4 responds well to OP-Amp rolling. The 8620 comes to mind as a better alternative to the 2134 the XM4 arrives with.


----------



## ttan98

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The XM4 responds well to OP-Amp rolling. The 8620 comes to mind as a better alternative to the 2134 the XM4 arrives with._

 

You must have reviewed many headphones over the years, with regard to op-amp rolling, it there a combination of op-amps for ANY design that works well or it depends on the design. Eg is 

 1. In case of a single op-amp version what op-amp would be suitable other than 2134 or 2132. Is 823(dual) the most suitable, has any tried 825(single) or even 627 or 637, these may not work well under low voltage battery?
 any comments? the 825 or 627 must be biased in class A to work well.

 2. In case of buffered version what combination works well. Any comments?


----------



## Goh

Has anyone ordered a Go-Vibe V7? Skylab, have you contacted Norm about it?


----------



## Skylab

Has is been released?


----------



## Goh

According to the website, it is, but only 50 available. Looks to be somewhat of a collector's item!


----------



## ttan98

Skylab,

 would like to comment on my response to Mrarroyo? You have lots of experienced with headamp as well.

 thanks.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttan98* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You must have reviewed many headphones over the years, with regard to op-amp rolling, it there a combination of op-amps for ANY design that works well or it depends on the design. Eg is 

 1. In case of a single op-amp version what op-amp would be suitable other than 2134 or 2132. Is 823(dual) the most suitable, has any tried 825(single) or even 627 or 637, these may not work well under low voltage battery?
 any comments? the 825 or 627 must be biased in class A to work well.

 2. In case of buffered version what combination works well. Any comments?_

 

I have found, in general, that changes in sound signature as a result of opamp rolling have been subtle, with some sounding better in one amp and some better in another. The "better" part really depends more on listener preference rather than an absolute, measurable change. 

 I do find that opamps with very low voltage noise levels and accurate square-wave response as depicted on the data sheets invariably sound better to me, so I tend to try those first. Unfortunately, data sheet specifications do not always guarantee how good or bad the device will sound when installed as a part of the whole circuit. 

 It has been my experience that certain opamps often seem to be synergistic with certain amps, it is, however, sometimes difficult and time-consuming to find that "right" combination! 

 Often differing technical parameters such as voltage, pin configuration, basing, etc. preclude using an opamp that sounds great in one particular amp to installation in a different amp. The choice of opamp (or tube) is ultimately one of making compromises in one or more of many different areas of performance.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttan98* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 would like to comment on my response to Mrarroyo? You have lots of experienced with headamp as well.

 thanks._

 

Ttan98:

 I don't like op-amp rolling. I don't like second-guessing designers. I prefer to listen to and review amps with the op-amp they come with. In the case of amps that can be ordered with different amps, I ask the maker which op-amp THEY think sounds best, and that is how I evaluate them.

 I know it's a little odd that I enjoy tube-rolling and don't enjoy op-amp rolling, but that's the way it is for me. Maybe it's because scoring cool tubes is, well, cool, while op-amps are pretty dull in and of themselves...


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ttan98:

 I don't like op-amp rolling. I don't like second-guessing designers. I prefer to listen to and review amps with the op-amp they come with. In the case of amps that can be ordered with different amps, I ask the maker which op-amp THEY think sounds best, and that is how I evaluate them.

 I know it's a little odd that I enjoy tube-rolling and don't enjoy op-amp rolling, but that's the way it is for me. *Maybe it's because scoring cool tubes is, well, cool*, while op-amps are pretty dull in and of themselves..._

 

Wow, that's hot! Well, I suppose you let 'em cool down before the swap eh?


----------



## Skylab

LMAO!


----------



## antonyfirst

Sky, would you find any differene at all between an SR-71 and Tomahawk, using IEMs?


----------



## Skylab

Actually, I never tried the SR71 with IEMs. But if that is the main use, I think the Tomahawk makes more sense as an amp.


----------



## jewman

Could anyone recommend an entry-level portable amp that would minimize hiss and/or make them sound better (mostly in the bass dept.) for my UE SF3s?


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sky, would you find any difference at all between an SR-71 and Tomahawk, using IEMs?_

 


 SR-71 has a bigger soundstage and better background detail than the Tomahawk with IEM's and has particularly excellent synergy with Triple-Fi's.


----------



## jamato8

It looks like the SR71 is standing up well against the test of time. I wish it had a rechargable circuit and was a little smaller but it isn't and doesn't. It does have an excellent build qaulity and enjoyable sound that should carry on for quite some time.


----------



## vorlon1

I agree, I would be nice if it was smaller. I wish it had the ability to be connected to an electrical outlet, charging circuit or not, but the battery life is fairly good, so it isn't that much of an issue.


----------



## Skylab

Even if the SR71 would have accepted Lithium batteries, I probably would have kept it, so very good does it sound...


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even if the SR71 would have accepted Lithium batteries, I probably would have kept it, so very good does it sound..._

 

Over my head I guess. I understand you like the sound of the 71 but i don't understand the rest. ?


----------



## mrarroyo

A pair of regular alkaline batteries last about 60 hours on the SR71. If you use your portable rig a couple of hours a day that translates to basically a month of listening.

 Yes the charging circuitry and an user selectable gain would be great. However I keep it because of its fantastic sound.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Over my head I guess. I understand you like the sound of the 71 but i don't understand the rest. ?_

 

I was simply saying that I would have kept the SR71 if it had been able to take Lithium batteries. But they are too big.


----------



## kwkarth

Keep in mind that with a battery power supply, there is nothing quieter, nothing better isolated from power line hash, nothing more immune to power line spikes, etc... I've had the same set of batteries in my SR-71 for several months. It's not the only amp I use, but gee whizz folks, batteries are a *feature*, not a problem with the SR-71.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am happy to report that iBasso has graciously agreed to loan me a D1 for review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You wouldn't happen to have received that loaner yet, have you?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You wouldn't happen to have received that loaner yet, have you?_

 

Not as of yet...


----------



## Wilashort

Very good review Skilab,. I am new in this comunity and i have read much of your posts (very interesting). Well, I need a amp for my headphones....I have had considering the Corda move for my setup, because i want great bass impact for my headphones (The PA2V2 is shy in this department (doesn't deliver enough impact ) for watching movies and hear MP3, OGM (etc) songs (i have very few Cds), the problem is the money (i can't spend that quantity of money for now, but i want already a very good amp (the best for <$160)). 
 I had a concern and is if it amp can image the sounds in a multichannel movie?; That is, that it can pinpoint the sounds in the soundstage of where it to come from (same as my external DSP/Dap card made...). I really didn't want to replace my external soundcard because of the multichannel suport and some other funtions, But if the Corda Move can make it, Then i don't need my soundcard anymore,
 If this amp can't make the previous; then what amp your recommend me for my setup? (and below $200 (i doesn't need the ultimate detail. I want a great and energetic sound with my music as when i had my 5,1 speakers (feel that energy in the music and openness and loudness in it. That energy that made to me to sing and shake))).
 Ah, the music that i like is JPOP (ayumi Hamasaki, Move, Globe, etc), Jrock, Techno, Electronica, super eurobeat, Classical, rock, music/soundtracks (of some space Videogames as tyrian, descent, etc) for ; practically fast and energetic music.
 I had another concern and is of the amp. I had a PA2V2, but it add distortion with the music in the bass (more of all ) and high frecuencies when i put the volume after of 1 o'clock and when the song have a lot of volume, why? (my XMOD card sound clean and drive well my DT770pro headphones in the line out of the card (it had 1.5x the amp power of the headphone out)). The PA2V2 sound clearer with rock music (when the song doesn't have a lot of bass or drums)
 I will be very gratefull with your recommendation. Remember, i want the biggest soundstage for my DT990 (for that i need a new amp (especially deep (forward and behind)) and raw power for this headphones, clarity, energy. The power of a 9v battery must be enough, true?
 Well, resuming, i want the bass impact and spaciousness similar to one of an cinema for watch my movies and the energy to the sound. For my DT770pro and even the DT990 i don't like and enboxed sound that my PA2V2 provides (it doesn't provide soundstage to my headphones, is the CMSS 3D which it offers...) 
 Thank you a lot...
 Sorry if my english isn't perfect at all. It isn't my native languaje

 PD: I have had read a lot of threads about, but my experience in amps is near to nule.
 PD2: I am a sound freak... When i sold my speakers (a year ago) (for the loudness in the sound which disturbed at others in my house). I have had search since then, a alternative to give the same sensation that i had with my speakers, and the alternative were the headphones and in the end i buy these headphones (the DT770pro for the bass response and for to be closed and the DT990 too for the bass and the huge soundstage and separation of the sounds).


----------



## Skylab

The MOVE can replace your sound-card for music, but I am not sure what it would do with a movie soundtrack. I have never tried it.


----------



## Wilashort

Yes i known, but i need to known if it can make (what to be known)...?.
 You can test it for me with a movie trailer (obviously with multichannel audio)? (for see if this can emulate the rear channels as my soundcard do) and because you have the same headphones as me (that can image or pinpoint the sounds in 3D). I will be very grateful with your impression, and it will be of much help for me.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The MOVE can replace your sound-card for music, but I am not sure what it would do with a movie soundtrack. I have never tried it._


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wilashort* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes i known, but i need to known if it can make (what to be known)...?.
 You can test it for me with a movie trailer (obviously with multichannel audio)? (for see if this can emulate the rear channels as my soundcard do) and because you have the same headphones as me (that can image or pinpoint the sounds in 3D). I will be very grateful with your impression, and it will be of much help for me._

 

Unless you can specifically decode Dolby Headphone, I think you'll just have a stereo mix. What is wrong with that?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless you can specifically decode Dolby Headphone, I think you'll just have a stereo mix. What is wrong with that?_

 

Exactly. When I listen to a movie on my laptop, I get stereo. Which is fine with me!


----------



## Wilashort

Hi guys
 It isn't the same experience. You cannot perceived the extra localizations of the sound with only stereo. It's as for example to view a Movie in Cinemax (No HD which doesn't had Dolby Digital). You can't hear the rear channels or center (as a dedicated channel), you just hear in stereo (right and left (with normal speakers and headphones too). With my XMOD i can hear the sound in 180 degrees (center, front left, front right, side left, side right))) well 225 degrees*; because of the processor that it had into (which make mathematical algorithms to simulate surround sound in stereo, but isn't the same, but with multichannel is easier for the processor (and is almost the same what does the dolby headphone tech, only that a little better)) to pinpoint the sounds from the info of the original locations and project to his correct location in the soundstage. *i can hear a center up channel and thanks to the great image and huge soundstage of the my headphones (i refer especially to the DT990). But, i can't hear nothing in the behind, because the extra information that originally had the movie, be lost after of the downgrade of the signal with the extra channels (because the conventional cable box operators are in stereo). The direccionality and the discreteness of the multichannel sound, be lost in stereo (that info be lost in a file after of the downmix of the channels and after of the decoding). In Dolby digital there is 6 discrete channels (.1 of for LFE) a center, front, left, rear left and rear right. Stereo is stereo, Is good for music but doesn't great for movies. 
 Kwkarth, because of that, i want pure discretion of the sound, not upmixed (as and image in photoshop when you increased the resolution of this, the image lost some or a lot of finnese (depending of the DPI and upscaling technique). Well is something near of a example). For that i want to hear each channel is his space, but seem that a amp doesn't capable to cover all the soundfield (720 degrees), unless that the file (MPx, ogg) to be in binaural but it is another thing.
 Is rare and is a irony that you to be a hardcore (or extreme) audiophile; that find the perfection in music (extreme detail, resolution, image, clarity, silkiness, etc) but doesn't bother with multichannel audio in movies; you are a nomal entusiast (skylab) than a real move fan or movie buff...
 I don't know, but in my opinion. i must keep with my soundcard for movies, unless that some of you prove to me the opposite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless you can specifically decode Dolby Headphone, I think you'll just have a stereo mix. What is wrong with that?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly. When I listen to a movie on my laptop, I get stereo. Which is fine with me!_

 

* continue


----------



## Wilashort

Well, and what happen if i buy the porta corda instead (or the parctical devices XM4 or the mseed spirit)?. i could get almost the same bass impact, if i complement (and increase...) the bass with the extra punch that the cristalizer (it add more treble energy and bass punch gradually) add??. or in other hand i can get or add more bass impact with the ecualizer in media Player Classic (it is better in sound quality for movies and Videoclips and musical videos) or VLC; or in music with the ecualizar of the XMplay or foobar (i am new testing this program). 
 The same is with the soundstage, the CMSS 3D may turn it in GIGAntic!? (is huge with the PA2V2 (which doesn't had), now with......)


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wilashort* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=xx-small]Hi guys
 It isn't the same experience. You cannot perceived the extra localizations of the sound with only stereo. It's as for example to view a Movie in Cinemax (No HD which doesn't had Dolby Digital). You can't hear the rear channels or center (as a dedicated channel), you just hear in stereo (right and left (with normal speakers and headphones too). With my XMOD i can hear the sound in 180 degrees (center, front left, front right, side left, side right))) well 225 degrees*; because of the processor that it had into (which make mathematical algorithms to simulate surround sound in stereo, but isn't the same, but with multichannel is easier for the processor (and is almost the same what does the dolby headphone tech, only that a little better)) to pinpoint the sounds from the info of the original locations and project to his correct location in the soundstage. *i can hear a center up channel and thanks to the great image and huge soundstage of the my headphones (i refer especially to the DT990). But, i can't hear nothing in the behind, because the extra information that originally had the movie, be lost after of the downgrade of the signal with the extra channels (because the conventional cable box operators are in stereo). The direccionality and the discreteness of the multichannel sound, be lost in stereo (that info be lost in a file after of the downmix of the channels and after of the decoding). In Dolby digital there is 6 discrete channels (.1 of for LFE) a center, front, left, rear left and rear right. Stereo is stereo, Is good for music but doesn't great for movies. 
 Kwkarth, because of that, i want pure discretion of the sound, not upmixed (as and image in photoshop when you increased the resolution of this, the image lost some or a lot of finnese (depending of the DPI and upscaling technique). Well is something near of a example). For that i want to hear each channel is his space, but seem that a amp doesn't capable to cover all the soundfield (720 degrees), unless that the file (MPx, ogg) to be in binaural but it is another thing.
 Is rare and is a irony that you to be a hardcore (or extreme) audiophile; that find the perfection in music (extreme detail, resolution, image, clarity, silkiness, etc) but doesn't bother with multichannel audio in movies; you are a nomal entusiast (skylab) than a real move fan or movie buff...
 I don't know, but in my opinion. i must keep with my soundcard for movies, unless that some of you prove to me the opposite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 * continue[/size]_

 

Don't kid yourself, with two driver headphones, you're hearing a simulation, not multichannel audio. Do what sounds good to you. cheers!


----------



## Skylab

x2. I have a 6.1 channel *speaker* setup of quite high quality for movies, but you cannot get any sort of thing like that from headphones, no matter what sort of electronic trickery you use. But as kwkarth said, just do what sounds good to you!


----------



## Wilashort

Yes, i know that is a simulation. But it is very convincing and realistic, That I can hear the discrete channels as in my ex 5.1 loudspeakers. I was very skeptic in the past (before of had this card), because (of what do you saying about 2 drivers... of how were possible and such things) similar technologies only get a simple simulation (a upmixing) and i never could listen the rear channels (and less discrete. Everything was disappointing before) as with the CMSS-3D*. Even i can hear upper of me, a helicopter (in a DTS movie) that before i can't listen with my ex 5.1 loudspeaker system (with my DT990 is as if the helicopter were at hundreds of meters buzzing in the sky and surrounding by behind (the sound was perceived in the movie into a naval air base) was fantastic (i never had listened something similar before))

 *The effect is more effective in headphones than speakers (i refer to 2.1 but i don't know how is with 5,1); i don't known why?, but must be because you have a complete soundfield with headphones than with speakers (...the sound is direct to the ears and i believe (but not researched) in my honest opinion. That is because one had each channel (left, right) in each ear *²). *² The effect is similar as with a 3D image simulation in a cinema (two images are splited in each eye and with a special lens, be achieve to join together in only one)
 You see.
 Cheers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't kid yourself, with two driver headphones, you're hearing a simulation, not multichannel audio. Do what sounds good to you. cheers!_

 

The same as up. 
 Cheers

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2. I have a 6.1 channel *speaker* setup of quite high quality for movies, but you cannot get any sort of thing like that from headphones, no matter what sort of electronic trickery you use. But as kwkarth said, just do what sounds good to you!_

 

Well, i still had interest in the corda move (i am very helpless for doesn't had money) but i want that you (or you kwkarth) answer the question that i make before, about the amps; as alternative to the move (i want to get anything similar in soundstage and if i can get the same bass impact (as when a giant rock fall from the sky and hit the earth (feel that dry IMPACT)) with the help of the crystalizer or a EQ is pretty good for me. the DAP is not very important for me, because seem that the difference with of the xmod isn't as big and i can save a lot of money (when one doesn't had nothing is a lot) and because i live outside of USA ). After of all, you are the expert in this matter


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Yeah, people shouldn't forget that Carver pre-amps had a very effective surround sound simulation.

 AND my Polk SDA speakers that reduce crosstalk actually put sound effects behind me during movies encoded in Dolby surround sound, while enhancing the depth of the sound stage in front of you at the same time. The first time I heard this at the store in 1986 with my copy of Handle's Messiah by Christopher Hogwood was a revelation. I still have those SDA speakers, although not the Carver pre-amp because the two combined was just not quite right.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, people shouldn't forget that Carver pre-amps had a very effective surround sound simulation.

 AND my Polk SDA speakers that reduce crosstalk actually put sound effects behind me during movies encoded in Dolby surround sound, while enhancing the depth of the sound stage in front of you at the same time. The first time I heard this at the store in 1986 with my copy of Handle's Messiah by Christopher Hogwood was a revelation. I still have those SDA speakers, although not the Carver pre-amp because the two combined was just not quite right._

 

Remember, these effects are psychoacoustic (they "trick" your brain into believing you're hearing something that isn't there). They work for some people and not for others. The reason these techniques are more effective for some folks and not others is because we all "hear" differently. The integration functions our brain performs when processing subtle FR, phase interference, and phase delays, give us the ability to locate sounds in 3d space. Some of those queues come from sound traveling on the surface of our face from one ear to the other, another cue comes from the FR response dip caused by our pinnae. That dip moves around depending upon the sound source height and R-L location. The designer creates the illusion that works for them, or their sample population. That's no guarantee the illusion will work for you or me.


----------



## bonkon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ampjoy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, is this long announced and awaited D1 official review finally ready?_

 

Dude, he just received the D1 1-2 days ago. He is not your personal professional portable amp reviewer you know.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So Skylab, when are the reviews of the xin reference, total bithead etc.. ready? and make it pronto.


----------



## bonkon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ampjoy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since he has put over 300 hours on it, if I can still do my maths, that is incorrect._

 

You can do maths very well, but you should learn how to read.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bonkon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, he just received the D1 1-2 days ago. He is not your personal professional portable amp reviewer you know.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So Skylab, when are the reviews of the xin reference, total bithead etc.. ready? and make it pronto.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ROTFL


 Skylab, you better stop benchmarking amps and start working on a time machine or cloning because there's no way one person can keep up with the demands. I would expect to see amazing woodwork on your Tardis (you will get this if you are a Dr. Who fan)


----------



## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ROTFL


 Skylab, you better stop benchmarking amps and start working on a time machine or cloning because there's no way one person can keep up with the demands. I would expect to see amazing woodwork on your Tardis (you will get this if you are a Dr. Who fan)_

 

Dr. Who?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wilashort* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Well, i still had interest in the corda move (i am very helpless for doesn't had money) but i want that you (or you kwkarth) answer the question that i make before, about the amps; as alternative to the move (i want to get anything similar in soundstage and if i can get the same bass impact (as when a giant rock fall from the sky and hit the earth (feel that dry IMPACT)) with the help of the crystalizer or a EQ is pretty good for me. the DAP is not very important for me, because seem that the difference with of the xmod isn't as big and i can save a lot of money (when one doesn't had nothing is a lot) and because i live outside of USA ). After of all, you are the expert in this matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I wish I knew how to answer your question, but I do not understand it. Can you try again?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ampjoy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, is this long announced and awaited D1 official review finally ready?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bonkon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude, he just received the D1 1-2 days ago. He is not your personal professional portable amp reviewer you know.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So Skylab, when are the reviews of the xin reference, total bithead etc.. ready? and make it pronto.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL! You are correct bonkon. I got the D1 Thursday afternoon. I am in the PROCESS of burning it in, ampjoy - I do not have 300 hours on it yet; just about to hit 48 hours. 300 hours burn in takes 10 days! Very sorry.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! You are correct bonkon. I got the D1 Thursday afternoon. I am in the PROCESS of burning it in, ampjoy - I do not have 300 hours on it yet; just about to hit 48 hours. 300 hours burn in takes 10 days! Very sorry._

 

If I remember correctly your standard is 100 hours on break-in no questions, right?


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the D1 Thursday afternoon. I am in the PROCESS of burning it in, ampjoy - I do not have 300 hours on it yet; just about to hit 48 hours. 300 hours burn in takes 10 days! Very sorry._

 

Boy, you sure have long days in Chicago!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I remember correctly your standard is 100 hours on break-in no questions, right?_

 

In this case I am going for 300 hours since I (at least) am not in a hurry, and many people have indicated that the D1 needs that long.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Boy, you sure have long days in Chicago! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OK, it was rounded. 12.5 days to be exact


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In this case I am going for 300 hours since I (at least) am not in a hurry, and many people have indicated that the D1 needs that long.

 OK, it was rounded. 12.5 days to be exact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am just glad your days are so long so that you can do all that you do and still have time for these reviews. Thanks.


----------



## NelsonVandal

What happed to the LISAIII review? I haven't seen any "real" reviews of it yet at all.


----------



## tnmike1

Oughta change his name to "reviewboy??" So many demands, so many amps, so little time!!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ampjoy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, how strange! I thought I had read like yesterday in another thread that actually your D1 was "approaching 300 hours" (if I know how to read). Really odd. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How do you join team Skylab, LOL?_

 

No worries whatsoever. I am breaking in 3 amps simultaneously right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NelsonVandal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What happed to the LISAIII review? I haven't seen any "real" reviews of it yet at all._

 

I wrote a full review of the Lisa III prototype; I have commented that the production version sounds identical. FWIW/JMO.


----------



## bonkon

I was only joking about my demands if someone didn't get that, skylab do whatever you want and take whatever time you need. 

 I do have a more serious question though, what do you think of this amp from Leckerton Audio just out from the specs? I find it quite impressive considering the size, casing, parts used, rechargeable circuit/batteries and of course the price (similar to the total bithrad) but it seems there is no interest in it. A bit confusing when there is such an overwhelming interest in DAC/Amp combos lately, I know nobody heard of leckerton audio before and I am a newb but no I don't work for them. Someone did accuse me in another thread eventhough I never said anything about the sound quality.


----------



## Skylab

Good question! I just saw that amp (on EBay) for the first time ever yesterday. Anyone else seen/heard one?


----------



## ttan98

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good question! I just saw that amp (on EBay) for the first time ever yesterday. Anyone else seen/heard one?_

 

You want to contact them and get a unit for evaluation/review. You have a reputation for reviewing headamps, I don't see any reasons why they won't let you review it unless it is below par.


----------



## FreeBlues

Man, what an amazing thread! Skylab, you're my new hero!

 Does anyone know if one can still purchase a Larocca PRII? Based on the reviews here and elsewhere I think I need to try one.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! It's really best to try to get a PRII used. Larocco Audio is VERY flakey.


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bonkon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can do maths very well, but you should learn how to read._

 

I hope there is some humor in this post, otherwise it is downright nasty.


----------



## bonkon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hope there is some humor in this post, otherwise it is downright nasty._

 

dw6928, I do not see the point of your remark. I hope you read the whole context of the matter before making the comment. Ampjoy made a reading mistake or misinterpretated another thread about the period skylab has the D1 in his posession, so I corrected him and made fun about his mistake. He acknowledged his mistake, felt embarassed and even made fun of himself so I assume he took it quite well. The atmosphere in this thread is quite good since I posted the comment, other people making jokes of their own about time machines, skylab's being inaccurate with his calculations, Dr. Who (which I didn't get) etc... I do not have the feeling that anyone is offended, I apologize if ampjoy feels offended and maybe I should have put a smiley in the end of my remark. In conclusion I do not see a problem and the matter does not even concern you so I really do not see your point. 

 PS: ampjoy, several posts above your first post skylab stated that he hasn't received the amp yet, then suddenly you were talking about 300 hours out from nowhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So I thought you were high or something while writing the post, therefore my remark. I understood later that you read it from another thread.


----------



## dw6928

fair enough, I am properly chastised.


----------



## bonkon

lol, your choice of vocabulary made me feel like my 4th grade teacher to whom I owe my first teacher's punishment in form of an ass whooping by a blackboard ruler. That day she taught me a new word as well: chastise, funny how I tend not to forget when pain is involved. 

 If she does it to a 10-11 years old child nowadays the kid would simply pick his cellphone, call his lawyer and sue her.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No worries whatsoever. I am breaking in 3 amps simultaneously right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Me too!! I have 131 hours on my D1, 36 hours on my cMoyBassBoost, and 6 hours on my PenquinAmp.

 Good thing my Tomahawk came with 700 hours on it...


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bonkon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, your choice of vocabulary made me feel like my 4th grade teacher to whom I owe my first teacher's punishment in form of an ass whooping by a blackboard ruler. That day she taught me a new word as well: chastise, funny how I tend not to forget when pain is involved. 

 If she does it to a 10-11 years old child nowadays the kid would simply pick his cellphone, call his lawyer and sue her._

 

Perhaps you are right: chastise is a bit dated, as am I.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps you are right: chastise is a bit dated, as am I._

 

Your better behave! Or Ms. Diva will chastise you.


----------



## Skylab

On 8/31 I posted that the D1 had arrived (it actually arrived on 8/30) and that I planned to burn it in for 200 hours. Then someone said I didn't need to wait that long, and I said I planned to burn it in for 300 hours instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I promise I never said it already had or was approaching 300 hours. It's now approaching 90 hours...

 ALSO, for everyone, the D1 is NOT going to be covered in this thread. It isn't designed as a portable headphone amp in the way these others are. I will be reviewing it by itself and comparing to the Meier Move when used as a DAC/AMP combo. But it won't get ranked here. FYI.


----------



## Wmcmanus

Thread title changed from 20 to 24 amps. Pretty amazing, but I guess not considering that a lot of us do this sort of analysis with headphones. So why not with amps too?


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On 8/31 I posted that the D1 had arrived (it actually arrived on 8/30) and that I planned to burn it in for 200 hours. Then someone said I didn't need to wait that long, and I said I planned to burn it in for 300 hours instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I promise I never said it already had or was approaching 300 hours. It's now approaching 90 hours...

 ALSO, for everyone, the D1 is NOT going to be covered in this thread. It isn't designed as a portable headphone amp in the way these others are. I will be reviewing it by itself and comparing to the Meier Move when used as a DAC/AMP combo. But it won't get ranked here. FYI._

 

Please compare it as a standalone amp too.

 The sound changes a little when it's used as a DAC and when it's used as a standalone amp...


----------



## Aptom

very good review


----------



## jonnyrockets

A pic of the X1 if interested. I got it for around $51 US shipped. 

 it's a gorgeous unit - very sleek, crisp and smaller than I was expecting.


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonnyrockets* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A pic of the X1 if interested. I got it for around $51 US shipped. 

 it's a gorgeous unit - very sleek, crisp and smaller than I was expecting._

 

Where did you get it from?


----------



## nickknutson

Hey Rob,
 The MOVE is a lot better than the TH?

*"That's amazing! I'm not even mad!" - Anchorman*


----------



## MusicallySilent

Yea I found the xtra x1 on ebay from a seller who basically just sells amps... I was confused because one marked brand new was 130 bucks and the others were not marked new for 62 bucks unless they are refurbs or something


----------



## ManAtWork

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wilashort* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes i known, but i need to known if it can make (what to be known)...?.
 You can test it for me with a movie trailer (obviously with multichannel audio)? (for see if this can emulate the rear channels as my soundcard do) and because you have the same headphones as me (that can image or pinpoint the sounds in 3D). I will be very grateful with your impression, and it will be of much help for me._

 

I think the MOVE cannot replace your sound card in this scenario, as it is just a stereo 2-ways amplifier. However, the effect of surround sounding is encoded specifically which required the sound card (in your situation) to decode it.


----------



## Skylab

I have made the following update to the review:

*Update 9-16-07*

*Triad Audio Lisa III*

 Info: http://triadaudio.net/1.html

 Surprisingly to me, a lot of people have asked me to include the Lisa III in this review. This is in spite of several things:

 1. It's far more expensive than all but the Larocco PRII;
 2. It's big enough that it really stretches the limit of what can be considered a "portable", in spite of it being battery powered;
 3. I've already reviewed it here; and
 4. It should be pretty clear that it would be number one, taking the above into consideration. 

 But nonetheless, I've been asked enough that I have decided to do it.

*Build Quality*: A-: Well built in a nice metal hammond case. Nice faceplate and knobs. LOVE having RCA jacks, but would have preferred hacing a mini-jack in parallel. Not quite quiet enough for IEM use without an impedance adapter. It should come with a power supply at this price, especially since it uses internal rechargeable batteries, and gets a modest 5-6 hours on a single charge. 
*Treble*: A+: Oh, those highs. SOOOO very clean, extended, airy, sweet, detailed...the treble is so much better than most portable amps. Only RSA amps, Meier Move and the PRII are in the same league. And I'd say the extension and airiness is even better on the LisaIII than any of these. Not night-and-day better, mind you, but better..
*Midrange*: A+: The midrange is open, lush, inviting, and very transparent. It's not the least bit too aggressive, but it isn't at all recessed either. I guess that makes it neutral, but not in a sterile way - it's "good neutral". If anything, perhaps it's just a touch warm. That's a good way to be.
*Bass:* A+: The bass is of course quite tailorable in terms of quantity, due to the bass countour knob, but the quality is excellent - it's well defined, tight, and has good "speed" of attack. And it's as deep as your headphones can muster, to be sure. And that control knob means you can have as much of it as you want. For my Denon D5000's it was best left off. For Sennheiser HD580's, though, I liked the bass control at about 1/3 "on".. Great pace and rhythm. 
*Neutrality:* A+: Supurbly neutral, but not analytical or cold. Just plain old not colored.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage is also exceptionally good -- nicely deep, wide, and fleshed out. It isn't light years ahead of other amps here, but it's still great.
*Transparency:* A+: I do not hear any way in which the Lisa III isn't transparent. WIDE open window to the music.

 OK, so it's great. Really. If you can accommodate it's size and weight, can live with 5-6 hours run time between charges (this will be improved in future versions to 10 hours I hear), and can afford it's asking price, it's a no brainer. Those are some significant ifs when it comes to a portable amp, but if you are concerned solely with sound, the Lisa III is the way to go, no doubt.


*Conclusions (9/16/07)*


 OK, so now its now 25 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Portaphile V2^2
 10. Storm B-4
 11. mSeed Spirit
 12. iBasso P-1
 13. Microshar uAmp107
 13. Practical Devices XM4
 14. C&C XO
 15. iBasso T2
 16. Go-Vibe 6
 17. Xtra X-1 Pro
 18. Xenos 0HA-REP
 18. iBasso T1
 19. Xtra X-1
 20. C&C Box V2
 21. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## speedbird151

Any idea how the Ibasso D1 would come in? Can someone loan him one to review?


----------



## Skylab

That depends on how its used. Just as a portable amp it would rank just below the mSeed Spirit. When driven by its built-in DAC, it would be in the top 8. That is all I intend to say on that topic.


----------



## souperman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *speedbird151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea how the Ibasso D1 would come in? Can someone loan him one to review?_

 

He already reviewed it...


----------



## The_Duke_Of_Eli

It'll be interesting to see how the LISA III will compare with Headroom's new offerings that are being released in October. Make that 26 amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Wilashort

Thank you for you reply, yes i have learned that. For that, I buy the Corda Arietta amp instead, I don't need the DAP (I had a very good one after all) and i want the spherical soundstage (For movies in 5.1 to 7.1 specially) that i get with my XMOD. I need is the POWER and clarity for my headphones.

 Skylab, your reviews are excellent, (i like the letter and -/+ system to rate...). For your review, i buy the Corda Arietta (has similar sound to the Move (and the same price (only is the double in volumetric size but has integrated the power supply)) but a little better in almost all).
 I think that >$300 in a amp is an excess... (is a nonsense expense, sorry...) for now.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManAtWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the MOVE cannot replace your sound card in this scenario, as it is just a stereo 2-ways amplifier. However, the effect of surround sounding is encoded specifically which required the sound card (in your situation) to decode it._


----------



## edwardsean

Skylab, 

 Ever since you started writing about the Lisa III, I assumed that it was going to take the #1 spot. So as the king of the portables how does it fare against home amps? Would it be able to replace a Cantate or even gain ground against an Opera?


----------



## Skylab

I will compare the Lisa III and the Meier Cantate in an upcoming review that I hope to finish soon.


----------



## tk3

Hm, wish the maker'd kept that nice looking wooden case from the beta version you reviewed.
 Although this one is not bad looking, that one was much nicer.


----------



## souperman

It'd probably be even more expensive!


----------



## jonnyrockets

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trickywombat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get it from?_

 

Got it from this Ebay seller! Great seller - shipping was quicker than some of my US purchases. http://cgi.ebay.com/XTRA-X1-portable...QQcmdZViewItem

 Didn't make sense to me to get a cmoy or anything like that when I could get this for the same price.


----------



## Podster

Awesome Skylab


----------



## greydragon

Great, informative roundup review!

 I was wondering when you do these reviews, do you buy, borrow, or get those amps for free to review?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greydragon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, informative roundup review!

 I was wondering when you do these reviews, do you buy, borrow, or get those amps for free to review?_

 

I bought the first nine, and then I have bought others that I knew I wanted (like the Meier Move). Others have been loaned to me by other head-fiers, and I have had some loaned to me by the manufacturers. I always state this in the specific review. If it says nothing, then I bought it. Otherwise it will say how I got it.


----------



## jirams

Skylab - you should get the Nobel Prize for services to Headpone Users!


----------



## Pokato

So basically you rated Ray's amps SR71>Hornet>Tomahawk? I just purchased a Tomahawk from Ray, due to my budget...and a perfect fit for my 3G Nano 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be paired with my PK1/SE530...SR71 is kinda out of the question because of its size for my use, but do you recommend this setup would be better matched with a Hornet?


----------



## Skylab

If you are using it with IEMs, the TH is the way to go.


----------



## Pokato

Then I guess if I want to keep my PK1, Hornet would be better suited...thanks for the advice!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using it with IEMs, the TH is the way to go._


----------



## freethegeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using it with IEMs, the TH is the way to go._

 

hey.. since this is the Skylab advice corner.. 

 

 Can you expand on why?. 

 I've read Ray's description on his site.. and quite a few reviews/impressions on the forum. But i haven't seen a description of why the TH is a better option that the Hornet for IEM's. All the sound quality related reviews seem to put the Hornet slightly ahead of the TH. I see the nice features that the TH has in terms of smaller size and ridiculously long battery life, but those are trivial tradeoffs for me given the corresponding Hornet attributes (the hornet isn't that much larger, and rechargable batteries are sufficicent for me).

 I currently have er4s, ue-11 and hd600's with an old total bithead.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freethegeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey.. since this is the Skylab advice corner.. 

 

 Can you expand on why?. 

 I've read Ray's description on his site.. and quite a few reviews/impressions on the forum. But i haven't seen a description of why the TH is a better option that the Hornet for IEM's. All the sound quality related reviews seem to put the Hornet slightly ahead of the TH. I see the nice features that the TH has in terms of smaller size and ridiculously long battery life, but those are trivial tradeoffs for me given the corresponding Hornet attributes (the hornet isn't that much larger, and rechargable batteries are sufficicent for me).

 I currently have er4s, ue-11 and hd600's with an old total bithead._

 

IMO those who use IEM's benefit from the Tomahawk over the Hornet in various ways. First with the gain in Low the amp gain is 1. Well a gain of 1 means that the overal volume has not been changed over your source so if you have very efficient IEM's or if you listen to low volumes the volume pot has more room to play before it gets too loud.

 Normally the Hornet has a gain of 3 in Low (although Ray can set it at 2 if you ask him). Three for gain may be to loud for very efficient IEM's.

 The second benefit is its small size, and the third benefit is its insanely long battery life.


----------



## Skylab

What Mrarroyo said


----------



## freethegeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ First with the gain in Low the amp gain is 1. Well a gain of 1 means that the overal volume has not been changed over your source so if you have very efficient IEM's or if you listen to low volumes the volume pot has more room to play before it gets to loud._

 

Ahhh...

 gain...

 DOH!.. 

 i remember reading that elsewhere now... dang.. well.. i suppose there will be a good deal on a new Hornet some time soon. When i bail on this and get a Tomahawk. 

 Wonder if i should stop burning it in.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freethegeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhh...

 gain...

 DOH!.. 

 i remember reading that elsewhere now... dang.. well.. i suppose there will be a good deal on a new Hornet some time soon. When i bail on this and get a Tomahawk. 

 Wonder if i should stop burning it in._

 

I saw you have ER4S, UE10, and HD600. If I may suggest, go to: http://apuresound.com/ and get one of his impedence resistors adaptors in either 75 ohm or 120 ohm to be used mostly with the UE10. It looks like:






 Everytime you sell an amp to buy another you loose money. Just food for thought.


----------



## fordgtlover

I apologise if this has already een asked or raised. I searched, but couln't find it.

 Have you reviewed the Mini³ in context of these other amps?


----------



## Skylab

No, I have not reviewed a Mini-3.


----------



## kpeezy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I have not reviewed a Mini-3._

 

I was wondering about that as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just ordered one and it should be in soon.


----------



## Tantra

Sorry Skylab, don't want to be negative, but do you really consider the Lisa III portable?






 How big would a non-portable amp be then?


----------



## OverlordXenu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tantra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Skylab, don't want to be negative, but do you really consider the Lisa III portable?






 How big would a non-portable amp be then?_

 

Are those Sextetts?

 Edit: No, I don't think they are. I can't tell if they have silver or gold rings on them, but they don't have that Sextett headband.


----------



## Skylab

I addressed the issue of the Lisa III's size in the review. That unit is bigger than the metal basic Lisa. Still, its big. I added it here because I was asked to. Simple as that.


----------



## devin_mm

First of all thanks so much this thread has been very informative and you know you must be doing something right if the makers of the amps are asking you to review their units, keep up the good work. Second I'm sorry if this has been asked already (63 pages is a lot to filter through), do you have plans to review the Xin Reference? I have one on the way I would just like to see how it stacks up.


----------



## Skylab

I would love to review a Xin Reference. But I don't know if anyone will ever loan me one since so few people have them...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would love to review a Xin Reference. But I don't know if anyone will ever loan me one since so few people have them..._

 

Plus most of the ones out there (mine included) are Beta Versions.


----------



## choomanchoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OverlordXenu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are those Sextetts?

 Edit: No, I don't think they are. I can't tell if they have silver or gold rings on them, but they don't have that Sextett headband._

 

Most girls only have two tetts, anymore than that is just bonus


----------



## ajsaxin

HI
 Have a query,the pr II on the ipodstudio website is it the mk2 version or the older one.And full monty at ipodstuido told me ther eis a 3 week lead time so any of you guys by experince do you think the wait would go beyond 3 weeks or does full monty keEp to his word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Skylab

I don't know anything about what ipodstudio is selling, but Larocco Audio is definitely flaky about how long you may have to wait...


----------



## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *choomanchoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most girls only have two tetts, anymore than that is just bonus
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

true but girl from total recall....well...


----------



## SR-71Panorama

^^ lol, saw that one coming... mullard funkens


----------



## Skylab

I have just updated the review to include the following:

*Update 10-5-07*

*Leckerton Audio UHA-3*

 Info: 

 The UHA-3 was loaned to me by it's maker, at my request. It's got a USB DAC, which I will comment on elsewhere, but which I will say here works very well and sounds very similar to the analog input performance which I detail here.

*Build Quality*: A: Well built in a nice metal hammond case. Nice faceplate and knobs. Batteries recharge with the USB connection, very nice way to go! Power switch on the rear, separate from the volume knob is also very nice IMO. Well built little amp.. 
*Treble*: A-: Nice, sweet, grainless, and clean, but slightly laid back. Lacks ultimate air and extension, but still very enjoyable. This may be what makes the soundstage seem slightly small, though.
*Midrange*: A-: The midrange is open, lush, inviting, and nicely transparent, although not quite as much so as the top amps here. It's not the least bit too aggressive, but it is just a tad warm of neutral. Still, here again, very enjoyable presentation.
*Bass:* A+: Bass lover's amp to be sure. Great impact, depth, punch, and definition. Really enjoyed this part of the presentation.
*Neutrality:* A-: Slightly warmish sound. More so even than the Meier Move, but not so much that the amp sounds colored, just a tad mellow. 
*Soundstaging:* B+: The soundstage is slightly small feeling. Instrument placement and image specificity is good, but it seems like the stage is a little too shallow and a little lacking in width. Still, not bad, and not a fatal flaw at all.
*Transparency:* A-: Loses just a little for a slight hiss that is present at any volume level, but in general, an open, transparent sound that's very enjoyable. 

 The battery lasted me over 24 hours on a single charge. The UHA has a lot of nice features, and it sounds VERY good. It's easily worth the asking price, and belongs in the top tier of portable amps. I was really impressed. The quality of current portable amp offerings is stunningly strong, and the UHA-3 is no exception. Nice job to Leckerton Audio.

*Conclusions (10/5/07)*


 OK, so now its now 25 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 10. Portaphile V2^2
 11. Storm B-4
 12. mSeed Spirit
 13. iBasso P-1
 14. Microshar uAmp107
 14. Practical Devices XM4
 15. C&C XO
 16. iBasso T2
 17. Go-Vibe 6
 18. Xtra X-1 Pro
 19. Xenos 0HA-REP
 19. iBasso T1
 20. Xtra X-1
 21. C&C Box V2
 22. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## unbiased

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just updated the review to include the following:

*Update 10-5-07*

*Leckerton Audio UHA-3*

 Info: 

 The UHA-3 was loaned to me by it's maker, at my request. It's got a USB DAC, which I will comment on elsewhere, but which I will say here works very well and sounds very similar to the analog input performance which I detail here.

*Build Quality*: A: Well built in a nice metal hammond case. Nice faceplate and knobs. Batteries recharge with the USB connection, very nice way to go! Power switch on the rear, separate from the volume knob is also very nice IMO. Well built little amp.. 
*Treble*: A-: Nice, sweet, grainless, and clean, but slightly laid back. Lacks ultimate air and extension, but still very enjoyable. This may be what makes the soundstage seem slightly small, though.
*Midrange*: A-: The midrange is open, lush, inviting, and nicely transparent, although not quite as much so as the top amps here. It's not the least bit too aggressive, but it is just a tad warm of neutral. Still, here again, very enjoyable presentation.
*Bass:* A+: Bass lover's amp to be sure. Great impact, depth, punch, and definition. Really enjoyed this part of the presentation.
*Neutrality:* A-: Slightly warmish sound. More so even than the Meier Move, but not so much that the amp sounds colored, just a tad mellow. 
*Soundstaging:* B+: The soundstage is slightly small feeling. Instrument placement and image specificity is good, but it seems like the stage is a little too shallow and a little lacking in width. Still, not bad, and not a fatal flaw at all.
*Transparency:* A-: Loses just a little for a slight hiss that is present at any volume level, but in general, an open, transparent sound that's very enjoyable. 

 The battery lasted me over 24 hours on a single charge. The UHA has a lot of nice features, and it sounds VERY good. It's easily worth the asking price, and belongs in the top tier of portable amps. I was really impressed. The quality of current portable amp offerings is stunningly strong, and the UHA-3 is no exception. Nice job to Leckerton Audio.

*Conclusions (10/5/07)*


 OK, so now its now 25 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 10. Portaphile V2^2
 11. Storm B-4
 12. mSeed Spirit
 13. iBasso P-1
 14. Microshar uAmp107
 14. Practical Devices XM4
 15. C&C XO
 16. iBasso T2
 17. Go-Vibe 6
 18. Xtra X-1 Pro
 19. Xenos 0HA-REP
 19. iBasso T1
 20. Xtra X-1
 21. C&C Box V2
 22. Little Dot Micro+

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful._

 
 


Skylab, so now that you have also tested out the iBasso D1, where would you rate it in your growing list? and the modded version of D1 you tested also?


----------



## bonkon

edit


----------



## koto-in

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 10. Portaphile V2^2
 11. Storm B-4
 12. mSeed Spirit
 13. iBasso P-1
 14. Microshar uAmp107
 14. Practical Devices XM4
 15. C&C XO
 16. iBasso T2
 17. Go-Vibe 6
 18. Xtra X-1 Pro
 19. Xenos 0HA-REP
 19. iBasso T1
 20. Xtra X-1
 21. C&C Box V2
 22. Little Dot Micro+_

 

Where's the D1?


----------



## IPodPJ

You need to review the Go-Vibe V7 Max (AD8397, 225mW output). It blows away the V6 (AD8620/8610, 100mW output). I haven't heard great things about the V7 Eco, though.


----------



## Skylab

Guys, my loan of the iBasso D1 was contingent on my commenting on it in context of it being a DAC/AMP, not a portable amp like most of these. That is why there is a different review thread I started for it.


----------



## jplacson

Sorry if this has been asked before... can't seem to find a specific answer... but I'm considering buying the MOVE, now, my specific need is an amp that's got strong bass in the 100Hz and below range. YOu gave the MOVE an A+ in bass, along with the UHA3... does that mean that they are equally "bassy"? Which of these amps had the strongest bass? Is the MOVE one of the stronger bass amps?


----------



## Skylab

Both have excellent bass, and you couldn't go wrong in that department with either, although I still prefer the Move overall.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Guys, my loan of the iBasso D1 was contingent on my commenting on it in context of it being a DAC/AMP, not a portable amp like most of these. That is why there is a different review thread I started for it._

 

But you still have it (at least mine), so you could comment on how this particularly modded iBasso D1 amp section sounds.


----------



## Skylab

LOL Miguel! But I just don't think it's right. The D1 isn't meant to be a stand-alone headphone amp, so it just doesn't belong here.


----------



## jplacson

Thanks Skylab!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL Miguel! But I just don't think it's right. The D1 isn't meant to be a stand-alone headphone amp, so it just doesn't belong here._

 

So, you are saying, "Miguel, you DON'T wanna know where it ranks because you wont be pleased". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Actually, he does rank the modded D1 vs the UH3 and Move in the other thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Originally Posted by Skylab 
 STAND ALONE AMP: Move > Modded D1 > UHA-3 > Stock D1

 USB DAC/AMP: Modded D1 > UHA-3 > Stock D1 > Move.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL Miguel! But I just don't think it's right. The D1 isn't meant to be a stand-alone headphone amp, so it just doesn't belong here._

 

With that logic neither does the Corda Move nor the Leckerton UHA-3. These two units are not meant to be stand along amps either since both have built in DAC's. Just my opinion.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, you are saying, "Miguel, you DON'T wanna know where it ranks because you wont be pleased". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, he does rank the modded D1 vs the UH3 and Move in the other thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually we all can only post opinions. I rank the D1 much higher than either the Move and the UHA-3. I personally did not like the UHA-3 as much as the Move, and IMO the D1 was also better than the Move. When the D1 is modded it is not even close, and the D1 pulls away. Different ears, different music, and different headphones.


----------



## mrarroyo

I added 4 amps to the 27 portable amp review, for a total of 3. You can see it at: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=252667


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With that logic neither does the Corda Move nor the Leckerton UHA-3. These two units are not meant to be stand along amps either since both have built in DAC's. Just my opinion._

 

I'd disagree with you there. The Move is an amp that can be hooked to a PC. It doesn't support coax or optical. Dr. Meier doesn't have a DAC page, he has an amplifier page. 

 iBasso lists their product as a DAC. Frankly I have been wondering why it lists in the amplifier section vs the components section. IMO, that is where it logically belongs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I don't care what the manufacturer lists it as, I care about what it is and can be used for.

 I look at the D1 as a multi-input amplifier that accepts analog audio input, optical and coax inputs, and USB input. Hah! So there


----------



## unbiased

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't care what the manufacturer lists it as, I care about what it is and can be used for.

 I look at the D1 as a multi-input amplifier that accepts analog audio input, optical and coax inputs, and USB input. Hah! So there_

 

x2, I tend to view it the same way. A headphone amp is a headphone amp. It has a headphone amp section in it and thus can be used as a headphone amp. So what's wrong with rating its headphone amp section with other headphone amp sections for the sake of getting a feel for where it would rate as a headphone amp. I would not be so fussy about it. Unless of course there is some hidden agreement or agenda that is being followed. Which of course then nullifies all creditablilty to a review IMHO. I really can't see a good reason not to rate it's headphone amp along with other headphone amps. But, to each their own, I will respect that. Just giving my opinion on it


----------



## Skylab

There is absolutely no hidden agreement - I stated it quite plainly. iBasso Audio asked me not to include the D1 in this review, and I agreed. Simple as that. I reviewed it elsewhere.

 In their view, it's not the same type of product as these. Fine with me.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I look at the D1 as a multi-input amplifier that accepts analog audio input, optical and coax inputs, and USB input. Hah! So there_

 

Without the opamp rolling I looked at it as an exceptional DAC and a ho-hum amp (actually worse until it burned in). I understand why iBasso wouldn't want it rated against the single purpose amps in that regard. 

 A lot of people here break out sources from amps and look at sources in a different light. They can be swapped out without messing with the amps. There is undeniable value to the consumer in binding the functions in one unit (such as Grace, Benchmark, etc). But, the money has been put into the DAC components on the D1. On the Move, the opposite is true. No offense meant.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is absolutely no hidden agreement - I stated it quite plainly. iBasso Audio asked me not to include the D1 in this review, and I agreed. Simple as that. I reviewed it elsewhere.

 In their view, it's not the same type of product as these. Fine with me._

 

It is my impression, after corresponding with iBasso, that they are well-aware of the shortcomings of the stock D1 amplifier. They also welcome our input into the possible opamp combinations that improve the amplifier section. 

 They face considerable difficulty in sourcing many opamps as well as other devices that would actually result in a much improved product. 

 They feel hampered in their efforts to stock quality componets, but it is a fact of life due to their location. I believe that, in part, is why they are so receptive to our efforts to improve the already superb basic design of the D1.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd disagree with you there. The Move is an amp that can be hooked to a PC. It doesn't support coax or optical. Dr. Meier doesn't have a DAC page, he has an amplifier page. 

 iBasso lists their product as a DAC. Frankly I have been wondering why it lists in the amplifier section vs the components section. IMO, that is where it logically belongs._

 

Your logic flat out makes no sense. What someone calls something is irrelevant. The iBasso D1 is an amp/dac combo, it can be connected to a computer via USB just like the Corda Move. Just because the Move does not support coaxial and optical makes it more of an amp than a dac.

 Frankly you are coming across as fanatic that does not want competition specially when the competition sounds better.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is absolutely no hidden agreement - I stated it quite plainly. iBasso Audio asked me not to include the D1 in this review, and I agreed. Simple as that. I reviewed it elsewhere.

 In their view, it's not the same type of product as these. Fine with me._

 

You know I am very surprised. Forget what they sent you and what you understand is: "In their view, ..."

 Others have sent you equipment to review and include in your XY amp review (wrote XY because it continuous to grow). So did I when I sent you the modded D1 and for some reason that baffles me you choose not to include it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Interesting to say the least, biased opinion if I wanted to take the other side of the equation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just my opinion.


----------



## unbiased

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is absolutely no hidden agreement - I stated it quite plainly. iBasso Audio asked me not to include the D1 in this review, and I agreed. Simple as that. I reviewed it elsewhere.

 In their view, it's not the same type of product as these. Fine with me._

 

No offense to you Skylab, you are doing a great job and service to this community! It is a different story if iBasso asked for not rating it along with other headphone amps. By all means, it is understandable why then you did not include it. 

 But it makes me wonder why they would request this as then it implies that they did not devote much to the design of the amp section and have no confidence in it. 
 Then by all means it should be considered a DAC first and the headphone amp thrown in as a convienence or after thought 2nd. And that's what iBasso seems to be saying I guess. Oh well.

 I hope their next version is designed with attention to the headphone amp section too because that is really what I want. A top notch DAC and a top notch headphone amp combined all in one unit. Maybe I will cancel my preorder for the D1 and wait it out for the improved headphone amp version. But the D1 seems to have a pretty good showing for its current version of headphone amp. Strange why they are afraid to compare it with others... what else did they expect head-fi'ers to do? We are always comparing these things! It is inevitable. What if someone else not obliged by iBasso decides to rate it? Anyway, this really is not a big deal. You did right respecting their wish.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your logic flat out makes no sense. What someone calls something is irrelevant. The iBasso D1 is an amp/dac combo, it can be connected to a computer via USB just like the Corda Move. Just because the Move does not support coaxial and optical makes it more of an amp than a dac.

 Frankly you are coming across as fanatic that does not want competition specially when the competition sounds better._

 

Not at all. The iBasso can be listed in the lineup for all I care in the manufacturer's shipping configuration and judged according to its amp characteristics. I think you would not like the results. I know I didn't. It appears iBasso has stated similarly. Even after modification, I think the Move still has the upper hand when paired with my iMod. I'm not being a fanatic, just being a consumer looking for the best way to get sound out of my iMod.

 Skylab has put his conditions on what he will and won't review. He reviews manufacturers amps if he is interested in purchasing them, or if a loan is sent by the manufacturer. He won't review DIY amps because the construction may not be consistent (sadly there are good DIY products worth reviewig too). He doesn't review amp/tube rolled products, cap modified products, etc. Who are you and I to dictate terms of his reviews? 

 All I'd say is keep doing the same consistent job you are doing Skylab. We know what your reviews are based on; now is not the time to change the premise.

 Mrarroyo, go ahead and include your modified amps in your review (I can't dictate terms to you either). I would just ask you add the caveat that the risk of damaging the device is prominently displayed. Not everyone is up to the task of wielding a soldering iron so basing reviews on cap-modified boards, soldering SOIC, etc. may lead some to bad outcomes for people who miss that little nuance. Since you bring it up, I wonder if similar mods should not be done with Move, Hornet, SR-71, etc. before they are reviewed to keep the playing field level?

 That I would think would be fair/honest approach and get your opinion across on how much better a stock amp/DAC/combo could be improved.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not at all. The iBasso can be listed in the lineup for all I care in the manufacturer's shipping configuration. I think you would not like the results. I know I didn't. I think iBasso has stated similarly._

 

Sure, provided it is also listed in its modded configuration. Come on, amps are modded to be made better. The amps by Xin which like the iBasso and the MiniBox-E have sockets can and do get the op-amps rolled. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enough, this is over for me. There is a flavor I get which I do not like. Fanaticism.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I am very surprised. Forget what they sent you and what you understand is: "In their view, ..."

 Others have sent you equipment to review and include in your XY amp review (wrote XY because it continuous to grow). So did I when I sent you the modded D1 and for some reason that baffles me you choose not to include it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Interesting to say the least, biased opinion if I wanted to take the other side of the equation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just my opinion._

 

Miguel:

 I have asked iBasso if they mind if I add it. If they say yes, I will.

 You should know better than to accuse me of Bias, and there is no place for that here. I have been totally clear about what is going on here. I also have made my opinions on the D1, modded and unmodded, VERY clear in other threads! So anyone really wanting to know where I stand on it can easily figure that out.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, provided it is also listed in its modded configuration. Come on, amps are modded to be made better. The amps by Xin which like the iBasso and the MiniBox-E have sockets can and do get the op-amps rolled. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enough, this is over for me. There is a flavor I get which I do not like. Fanaticism. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm...it seems to me that there is enough fanaticism on both sides of this argument


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is my impression, after corresponding with iBasso, that they are well-aware of the shortcomings of the stock D1 amplifier. They also welcome our input into the possible opamp combinations that improve the amplifier section. 

 They face considerable difficulty in sourcing many opamps as well as other devices that would actually result in a much improved product. 

 They feel hampered in their efforts to stock quality componets, but it is a fact of life due to their location. I believe that, in part, is why they are so receptive to our efforts to improve the already superb basic design of the D1._

 

I don't disagree with any of this. The D1 is a fine product.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, provided it is also listed in its modded configuration. Come on, amps are modded to be made better. The amps by Xin which like the iBasso and the MiniBox-E have sockets can and do get the op-amps rolled. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enough, this is over for me. There is a flavor I get which I do not like. Fanaticism. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think you are reading in something that isn't there. Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't make me a fanatic, nor do I feel you are being one for taking an opposing position.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to review the Go-Vibe V7 Max (AD8397, 225mW output). It blows away the V6 (AD8620/8610, 100mW output). I haven't heard great things about the V7 Eco, though._

 

Yes? No? Hello?
 Or is it just not worth it since you can't buy them anymore?
 Maybe some reviews from you would help people decide if they want to sell theirs and get a different one.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm...it seems to me that there is enough fanaticism on both sides of this argument 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was not talking about you w/ that post. You are correct, it can be from both sides and it is an strong word.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes? No? Hello?
 Or is it just not worth it since you can't buy them anymore?
 Maybe some reviews from you would help people decide if they want to sell theirs and get a different one._

 

I guess my original feeling was that it didn't make sense to review the GV7 since they can't be purchased except used, it being a limited edition. 

 I have been offered a GV7 buy another very kind head-fier -- I may yet take him up on it. Haven't decided - lots of incoming amps to review


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was not talking about you w/ that post. You are correct, it can be from both sides and it is an strong word._

 

Emotions can run strong when opinions differ, although for me, differing opinions is what makes sites like Head-fi valuable. The more people who undertake to spend time in thoughtful expression of their opinions, like you have in your reviews Miguel, the better off all head-fiers are.

 But there is no need for anyone to be accusing anyone else of anything. 

 "There ain't no good guy
 There ain't no bad guy
 There's only you and me
 And we just disagree".


----------



## dw6928

I think a lot of people would welcome your review of the GV7 especially now that it will remain available from another vendor. You should stay in contact with that kind Head fier, he must be quite magnanimous


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...stay in contact with that kind Head fier, he must be quite magnanimous_

 

Didn't he loose the GV7 in transit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh no, I stole it!


----------



## Skylab

LOL! Indeed, he is.

 What's this about the GV7 being available from another vendor? I was not aware...


----------



## antonyfirst

I am another one interested in seeing your review of the GoVibe 7.


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Didn't he loose the GV7 in transit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh no, I stole it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well at least it got a good home.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well at least it got a good home._

 

Don't go so far, remember ===> Team Meathead!

 Wilson is selling the Go-Vibe 7 now.


----------



## dw6928

I never really knew what Team Meathead meant.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never really knew what Team Meathead meant._

 

Remember: All in the family w/ Archie Bunker.


----------



## dw6928

The son in law ?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think a lot of people would welcome your review of the GV7 especially now that it will remain available from another vendor. You should stay in contact with that kind Head fier, he must be quite magnanimous_

 

Yes, he is! ^

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...1&postcount=23


----------



## Skylab

For anyone who cares:

 I received a very nice email from iBasso Audio today. I have to say, those guys are really awesome. Responsive, and just very nice.

 What they said was basically that I am at my liberty to do whatever I want with regard to this review. They, however, don't think it makes sense to include a modded version of the D1 in a review like this because, of course, when you open up modding, the possibilities are limitless. iBasso themselves asked the logical question - how many iBasso D1's should I rank? Mrarroyo's version? HiFlight's version? What about the new, upgraded version from iBasso themselves (which they confirmed is coming...)?

 As such, and since I have reviewed the iBasso D1, modded and unmodded, in detail here, and since my policy has been not to review modded amps here, I intend to stick to that policy. 

 Mrarroyo lent me a modded D1, which I appreciate. Apparently it was his expectation I would add it here, which I am not going to do, and for that misunderstanding I would like to apologize. However, I have a defined methodology here to my reviews, which I am sticking to. For everyone's benefit, but especially our newer members, it includes the following:

 1. All amps are listened to level-matched using an SPL meter
 2. All amps are listened to with the same headphones, using the same music
 3. I accept (and sometimes ask for) loans from manufacturers in order to review them. I only buy amps I want to own, although I do usually review those as well. When the amp is a loaner, I indicate that in the review.
 4. I have been loaned amps by other generous head-fiers to review, but after dw6928's loan of a GV7 which is coming up, I will no longer accept such loans, since the risk of offending the person loaning them seems too great.
 5. I will review stock amps only. There are other reviews that cover modded amps, which is great. Please, no more requests for me to listen to amp A with op-amp B. Again, there other head-fiers who are doing an excellent job of that.

 Finally, I am not a paid reviewer. I am a complete amateur. In fact, I pay head-fi money (as a contributing member)! As such, I am doing this for FUN. If it ceases to become fun, then it will stop. I would like to keep this thread free from accusations and personal attacks. Life is too short, and I ask everyone to keep those sorts of comments OUT of this thread.

 Thanks for listening.


----------



## DennyL

You are making a fantastic contribution to this community, Skylab. Thank you.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are making a fantastic contribution to this community, Skylab. Thank you._

 

x2, losing you would be a great loss to the community. If it stops being fun please take a month off and come back as a lurker/occasional poster at least.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys. Not to worry - it's still fun! I am just trying to KEEP it that way


----------



## itsborken

It will be interesting to see if more manufacturers socket their opamps going forward. There appears to be a great deal of interest in rolling them based on the D1 thread. As a manufacturer I wouldn't want to give up a portion of head-fi sales by sticking with soldered soics. If it added $10 for the cost of design and a bit more real estate I'd gladly pay it as it can yield SQ and soundstage gains. In that aspect Mrarroyo, Jamato8 and HiFlight have made me a believer. Kudos.


----------



## dap_pad

First and foremost, thank you so much for this extensive review Skylab, I'm sure it helped alot of people.

 Now on to my question LOL

 I recently got Yuin PK1s and these REALLY need an amp. I picked up a Porta Corda MKIII w/o DAC for a great price and since your review said it was great, I instantly bought it. But now I keep on seeing these great reviews and comment on the Mini3 and I really want to know if anyone has compared the two and would the MKIII be a good amp to pair with the PK1s?

 THANKS!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! I have not reviewed the Mini3. But Mrarroyo has in his big review.


----------



## mrarroyo

dap_pad, you have a great amp in the Porta Corda MkIII. IMO the Mini^3 sounds better but only you could make that call. I wish I had one to let you try it so you could decide.

 Although I have heard the PK1's (and they are great sounding) I have not listened to them out of the Mini^3. Rockhopper sells the Mini^3 w/ a charger and S&H for $125, a major bargain. If you get it and you do not like it you could sell it for an small loss (Say $20).

 Either amp is very good and would make you happy.


----------



## dap_pad

Ah, I see. The Mini3 seems really interesting, maybe if I'm not satisfied with my MKIII, I can sell it and buy the Mini3. We'll see.

 Thanks!!!


----------



## tosh1000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, I have a defined methodology here to my reviews, which I am sticking to. For everyone's benefit, but especially our newer members, it includes the following:

 1. All amps are listened to level-matched using an SPL meter
 2. All amps are listened to with the same headphones, using the same music
 3. I accept (and sometimes ask for) loans from manufacturers in order to review them. I only buy amps I want to own, although I do usually review those as well. When the amp is a loaner, I indicate that in the review.
 4. I have been loaned amps by other generous head-fiers to review, but after dw6928's loan of a GV7 which is coming up, I will no longer accept such loans, since the risk of offending the person loaning them seems too great.
 5. I will review stock amps only. There are other reviews that cover modded amps, which is great. Please, no more requests for me to listen to amp A with op-amp B. Again, there other head-fiers who are doing an excellent job of that.

 Finally, I am not a paid reviewer. I am a complete amateur. In fact, I pay head-fi money (as a contributing member)! As such, I am doing this for FUN. If it ceases to become fun, then it will stop._

 

Skylab: I agree with your rules, except for #4. Surely the owner (and the rest of us head-fiers!) would rather have your honest opinion and understand up-front the risk of being disappointed? I believe it's important to hear the reviews of as many products as possible from one single reviewer, as it's a good reference point even if he has different tastes. Please reconsider this rule.

 Forgive me if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but where does the Bithead and Total Bithead fit into your rankings? Even if they're at the bottom, I'd like to know for the sake of completeness.

 Thanks!


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosh1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab: I agree with your rules, except for #4. Surely the owner (and the rest of us head-fiers!) would rather have your honest opinion and understand up-front the risk of being disappointed? I believe it's important to hear the reviews of as many products as possible from one single reviewer, as it's a good reference point even if he has different tastes. Please reconsider this rule.

 Thanks Guys!_

 

I agree. As an owner that lent Skylab an amp that ended up not being rated as I as I had hoped, I can't believe that anybody that anybody would get upset. Remember, there are no absolutes in hifi. Some people's dream amp is another one's awful amp. There is no need to get upset because Skylab's opinion is different that one's own opinion. Because that's all they are, opinions.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. As an owner that lent Skylab an amp that ended up not being rated as I as I had hoped, I can't believe that anybody that anybody would get upset. Remember, there are no absolutes in hifi. Some people's dream amp is another one's awful amp. There is no need to get upset because Skylab's opinion is different that one's own opinion. Because that's all they are, opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

There's a whole spectrum of personalities and while you may be on one side, there is likely someone that feels exactly the opposite for all the right reasons most important to that person. 

 Discontent and animosity destroys the atmosphere Jude and the moderators work so hard to preserve. I agree that the pain isn't worth it, especially when the gain is small or non-existent. 

 This isn't to say things don't get heated in the normal discourse but hopefully it keeps itself to a minimum. None of this is personal like you say.


----------



## Hanzo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. As an owner that lent Skylab an amp that ended up not being rated as I as I had hoped, I can't believe that anybody that anybody would get upset. Remember, there are no absolutes in hifi. Some people's dream amp is another one's awful amp. There is no need to get upset because Skylab's opinion is different that one's own opinion. Because that's all they are, opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 

I would go further and suggest a rebuttle review. If you think an amp's ranking is wrong (by your ears), and you detailed why you think so it only serves to give us all more info about the amps in question. No accusations, just why you think differently.


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's a whole spectrum of personalities and while you may be on one side, there is likely someone that feels exactly the opposite for all the right reasons most important to that person. 

 Discontent and animosity destroys the atmosphere Jude and the moderators work so hard to preserve. I agree that the pain isn't worth it, especially when the gain is small or non-existent. 

 This isn't to say things don't get heated in the normal discourse but hopefully it keeps itself to a minimum. None of this is personal like you say.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I imagine that the person that lends an amp for a review and then gets upset at it is the same person that freely gives advice and then gets upset when it's not followed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hanzo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would go further and suggest a rebuttle review. If you think an amp's ranking is wrong (by your ears), and you detailed why you think so it only serves to give us all more info about the amps in question. No accusations, just why you think differently._

 

I certainly can't do it. I haven't seen my amp yet much less heard it. I also haven't heard the variety of portable amps to do a valid comparison. I respect the reviewer and believe that the review is honest. Once I hear it, I may agree or disagree. For the latter, I may consider it either better or worse than Skylab did. No matter, I can't see getting upset with Skylab for not having the same opinion that I form. That would be just plain immature.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. As an owner that lent Skylab an amp that ended up not being rated as I as I had hoped, I can't believe that anybody that anybody would get upset. Remember, there are no absolutes in hifi. Some people's dream amp is another one's awful amp. There is no need to get upset because Skylab's opinion is different that one's own opinion. Because that's all they are, opinions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Ok, you do not know what happened. So to add some clarity I will say that I could care less if the amp I loaned got ranked first or last. So your statement of:  Quote:


 There is no need to get upset because Skylab's opinion is different that one's own opinion. 
 

 is irrevelant because that was not the issue.

 I repeat, the location or rank was not the issue.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosh1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab: I agree with your rules, except for #4. Surely the owner (and the rest of us head-fiers!) would rather have your honest opinion and understand up-front the risk of being disappointed? ..._

 

I will repeat myself. As the person that got into a disagreement w/ Skylab over the amp loaned I can tell you that the location or the ranking of the amp was not the issue. Again, I could care less if it was ranked first or last. But that it would get ranked in the 24 amp review. Therefore there was no "disapointment" since there was no ranking of the loaned gear in this thread.

 I hope I have cleared that issue.


----------



## Computerstud

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I imagine that the person that lends an amp for a review and then gets upset at it is the same person that freely gives advice and then gets upset when it's not followed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I certainly can't do it. I haven't seen my amp yet much less heard it. I also haven't heard the variety of portable amps to do a valid comparison. I respect the reviewer and believe that the review is honest. Once I hear it, I may agree or disagree. For the latter, I may consider it either better or worse than Skylab did. No matter, I can't see getting upset with Skylab for not having the same opinion that I form. That would be just plain immature._

 

Stay out of it!!!! No one wants to read your opinion on a private matter that has nothing to do with you.

 First it's none of your business. 
 Second you have no idea what happen.
 Third you are making things worse with your moral policing.

 It's a simple disagreement and soon it'll blow over.
 We are all boys regardless of age and as the saying goes boys will be boys or was it boys and their toys?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I imagine that the person that lends an amp for a review and then gets upset at it is the same person that freely gives advice and then gets upset when it's not followed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..._

 

For someone who has absolutely no understanding or first hand knowledge of what happened why would you decide to make such an ignorant comment! So no need to roll your eyes and be sarcastic.

 Once again to clear the air, the argument between Skylab and I was not over a ranking. There was no ranking of the D1 *I sent* in the 24 amp thread I sent and that was the disagreement.


----------



## mrarroyo

FWIW just because Skylab and I had a heated argument does not mean that I do not value or appreciate what he has done. It take many hours of in-depth concentration and listening to evaluate as much gear as he has. Plus it takes money and commitment.


----------



## ounkchicago

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosh1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive me if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but where does the Bithead and Total Bithead fit into your rankings? Even if they're at the bottom, I'd like to know for the sake of completeness._

 

Good question. I'd like to know too, even if you could just give us a ballpark estimate of where they would fall on the list, without doing a comprehensive review.


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosh1000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab: I agree with your rules, except for #4. Surely the owner (and the rest of us head-fiers!) would rather have your honest opinion and understand up-front the risk of being disappointed? I believe it's important to hear the reviews of as many products as possible from one single reviewer, as it's a good reference point even if he has different tastes. Please reconsider this rule.

 Forgive me if it's been mentioned elsewhere, but where does the Bithead and Total Bithead fit into your rankings? Even if they're at the bottom, I'd like to know for the sake of completeness.

 Thanks!_

 

Do you mind if I chime in on that question? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally I'd rank the Total Bithead 2006 on the low end of the scale of portable amps with respect to the limited number that I've heard. A warm-ish sound but at the expense of overall refinement, it's just not very detailed. Decent bass output but not very deep or powerful. Much more useful as a USB DAC, a big step up from the laptop-onboard sound of my Asus Z71V. In relation to the portable amps listed in my profile, it'd be at the bottom.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW just because Skylab and I had a heated argument does not mean that I do not value or appreciate what he has done. It take many hours of in-depth concentration and listening to evaluate as much gear as he has. Plus it takes money and commitment._

 

Agreed. Mrarroyo and I had a misunderstanding, and a difference of opinion. It's past us. I think the fact that he has another significant portable amp review, with different opinions, is terrific. We clearly have different views on things like op-amp rolling, and that is a great thing for head-fi, as head-fiers can get multiple points of reference. As has been said, we all hear and think differently.

 'Nuff said on this topic, IMO.

 Back to the fun, I have review samples of the Mini-Box-E, and the HEA-1
 coming my way soon, as well as the GV-7. Supercool!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mind if I chime in on that question? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Personally I'd rank the Total Bithead 2006 on the low end of the scale of portable amps with respect to the limited number that I've heard. A warm-ish sound but at the expense of overall refinement, it's just not very detailed. Decent bass output but not very deep or powerful. Much more useful as a USB DAC, a big step up from the laptop-onboard sound of my Asus Z71V. In relation to the portable amps listed in my profile, it'd be at the bottom._

 

Thanks! I only auditioned a Total Airhead, and it was the older version, but I concur with your assessment, based on that.

 I have been promised a review sample of the new Headroom Microamp when it hits full production.


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For someone who has absolutely no understanding or first hand knowledge of what happened why would you decide to make such an ignorant comment! So no need to roll your eyes and be sarcastic.

 Once again to clear the air, the argument between Skylab and I was not over a ranking. There was no ranking of the D1 *I sent* in the 24 amp thread I sent and that was the disagreement._

 

Hi Miguel,

 I had no idea you and Rob had a disagreement. I was talking only about "someone lending him an amplifier for a review and then getting upset with the review". Why get upset? This is only a hobby. It's not arms or legs.

 Regards,

 -ken


----------



## PPkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. Mrarroyo and I had a misunderstanding, and a difference of opinion. It's past us. I think the fact that he has another significant portable amp review, with different opinions, is terrific. We clearly have different views on things like op-amp rolling, and that is a great thing for head-fi, as head-fiers can get multiple points of reference. As has been said, we all hear and think differently.

 'Nuff said on this topic, IMO.

 Back to the fun, I have review samples of the Mini-Box-E, and the HEA-1
 coming my way soon, as well as the GV-7. Supercool!_

 


 can't wait to read up on the reviews for those.. thumbs up for you..


----------



## Chewy

I wonder where a good Cmoy amp fit against these portable amps.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the fun, I have review samples of the Mini-Box-E, and the HEA-1
 coming my way soon, as well as the GV-7. Supercool!_

 

Hey Skylab,
 Thanks for all your hard work. Always appreciated! You're one of the main reasons I'm buying the Opera, because of your review with the Denons.

 Anyway, make sure you review the V7 Max. From what I've heard, the V7 Eco is nothing special. And you may also test it out with the regulated 12V adaptor. When it's powered in full 12V mode, the extension is better in the treble. When it's only running off a 9V, it loses that. Obviously this doesn't help portable situations any, but... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, the V7 Max is 300% better than the V6 was. In many ways I thought the V5 was better than the V6. But the V7 Max tops all previous offerings from Norm.


----------



## itsborken

mispost


----------



## dw6928

Skylab is getting a GV7 Max.


----------



## Csi

LOONNNNNG post but a very good one. Especially for those who can not spend the time that this hobby really deserves to really research other opinions or actually test products, well written reviews like these are invaluable. I wish I could go through the entire thread but that will not happen. Just a suggestion, I know it is minor and can be done by the individual (since you also were very wise in providing direct links or providing ways to get ahold of each item) but can you create a listing of prices. Better yet just have a the ladder listing the 26 prices and place them from top to bottom? Thanks!


----------



## Xenafor

Ooh, glad I re-read these reviews. I just bought an MKIII off the FS forums, and wasn't totally confident, as I hadn't found enough full-length reviews. So excited now, this'll be my first amp!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Csi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOONNNNNG post but a very good one. Especially for those who can not spend the time that this hobby really deserves to really research other opinions or actually test products, well written reviews like these are invaluable. I wish I could go through the entire thread but that will not happen. Just a suggestion, I know it is minor and can be done by the individual (since you also were very wise in providing direct links or providing ways to get ahold of each item) but can you create a listing of prices. Better yet just have a the ladder listing the 26 prices and place them from top to bottom? Thanks!_

 

Even better would be a histogram graph with the Y axis as QUALITY or RANK, and X axis as PRICE, and then all the "dots" would be the different amps. 

 Then we could see which ones offer the best value of sound for the price. We could even do linear regression to get the best slope of the line "Dollars vs Quality", and anything above the "line" would represent the best deals for the price.


----------



## bigizzy75

Hey Skylab,

 Anything coming soon?
 No Rush just wondering.

 Would you ever rate the Mini3 or the MiniBox-E? Just curious

 Thank you for all your feedback,

 Best Wishes,

 Izzy


----------



## dap_pad

I think Skylab got a Minibox-E for review... Can't wait!!!


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab is getting a GV7 Max._

 

He better review it soon. His other 30 amps need some more company. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I jest, of course. But I think the quality of the V7 Max will really surprise him. I'd bet that it sounds as good (or almost as good) as other amps costing much more. It really outperforms any of Norm's previous offerings. And Skylab and I seem to have similar ears, so I'm sure he will agree.

 The reason it hasn't gotten much love here is because he only made 25 of them! The other 35 V7 models were Eco. Luckily for people on a budget, Jaben will be making these great amps soon for lots of people to enjoy.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He better review it soon. His other 30 amps need some more company. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I jest, of course. But I think the quality of the V7 Max will really surprise him. I'd bet that it sounds as good (or almost as good) as other amps costing much more. It really outperforms any of Norm's previous offerings. And Skylab and I seem to have similar ears, so I'm sure he will agree.

 The reason it hasn't gotten much love here is because he only made 25 of them! The other 35 V7 models were Eco. Luckily for people on a budget, Jaben will be making these great amps soon for lots of people to enjoy._

 

I tried to buy a max version, in extra case, with special sauce. I emailed Norm on a Wenesday, he replied with price and paypal address on Sat, I paid on Monday when I returned from out of town. He refunded me Tuesday because they'd sold out over the weekend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OTOH, that money went to an iBasso D1 instead (and another penguinamp, then a Headsix, then a headstage w/dac...).


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I have the MiniBox E, the GV7, and the Visely HEA-1 all in for review, and they will be added to this review as soon as I finish up a couple other projects.


----------



## dw6928

Hopefully it will be the GV7 first as it is now a boutique amp and in need of a discerning review.


----------



## shipingxi

I designed a new amp STORM-B-3 and wish Mr.SKYLAB be willing to review it，please。
 sorry for my poor Engilsh。


----------



## Skylab

Sure - please send me a PPrivate Message.


----------



## shipingxi

STB3 will come out in about 2 weeks, I'll send you a pm then, OK? 
 Thank you!


----------



## Skylab

Great!


----------



## epaludo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shipingxi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_STB3 will come out in about 2 weeks, I'll send you a pm then, OK? 
 Thank you!_

 

Do you have any information on your amp to give us?

 PS: sorry if you already gave info, i missed then ...


----------



## shipingxi

I can give you some picture!
 here:
http://www.erji.net/read.php?tid=455166
 Can you see them?

 My Engilsh is so poorly,I am sorry!


----------



## Skylab

I just added the Visely HEA-1, the MiniBox-E, and the Go-Vibe7 to this review.


----------



## gallardo88

skylab, thank you for the wonderful review. It seems like you have a lot of darths. I have also just ordered a pair, and i would like to know if there's any of the amps you reviewed that goes particularly well with them. possibly ones under 300 $. thank you so much.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gallardo88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, thank you for the wonderful review. It seems like you have a lot of darths. I have also just ordered a pair, and i would like to know if there's any of the amps you reviewed that goes particularly well with them. possibly ones under 300 $. thank you so much._

 

Thanks for the kind words. Lots of these amps sound great with Darths of course. All of the better amps certainly do.


----------



## gallardo88

any specific one? thanks


----------



## only500made

Quote:


 I designed a new amp STORM-B-3 and wish Mr.SKYLAB be willing to review it，please。
 sorry for my poor Engilsh。 
 



 man if this was real life, skylab just picked up someone...


 I wish I was internet-pimpin like him.


----------



## dw6928

My compliments to Skylab on his insightful prose regarding the GoVibe7. It truly is a remarkable amp; Norm's finest effort and a most remarkable price point to boot. A fine farewell from our Canadian friend.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gallardo88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any specific one? thanks_

 

They key would be to decide your price range, and then get the best overall amp you can afford.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My compliments to Skylab on his insightful prose regarding the GoVibe7. It truly is a remarkable amp; Norm's finest effort and a most remarkable price point to boot. A fine farewell from our Canadian friend._

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!


----------



## gallardo88

well, i think 100-200 for a portable sounds reasonble, but if there were a very big increase in quality i could stretch to 300.


----------



## sghound

once more, with feeling...THANK YOU SKY


----------



## Flyfreely

Why HEA-1 got a higher score than STB-4 but behind it ?


----------



## Skylab

As posted above, note that the actual grades can't simply be added up to get the exact ranking.


----------



## Podster

Sky, could you tell on the Go-Vibe if the bump guard rings on the end caps are removeable like the rings on the Mini^3? Understnd the function just don't care for the increased thickness or appearence:-0 

 THX again


----------



## Skylab

Not sure, and I don't have it anymore - it's being sent back to the head-fier who kindly loaned it to me.


----------



## oicdn

Woot...more additions. Nice, I've never seen the HEA before. Pretty. Shame it's not as good sounding though, cause it'd be a new FOTM, lol.

 Can't wait till I get in my next little stash of amps...my review is SLOWLY catching yours, lol.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sky, could you tell on the Go-Vibe if the bump guard rings on the end caps are removeable like the rings on the Mini^3? Understnd the function just don't care for the increased thickness or appearence:-0 

 THX again_

 


 I am not Sky! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But I may be able to help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enclosed is a PDF file which shows the construction of a typical Hammond Enclosure, you can see that the rings can be removed w/o a problem. If you decide to do so you may wish to get rubber feet at Radio Shack, a pack of 12 feet sell for about $2, good luck.

http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1455K1202.pdf


----------



## Daniel L

Thank you for this roundup. I was looking for something like this exactly.


----------



## StayOnBoard

Have you ever tried the Cute Beyond? I didn't see it in your list at all, and I have to admit Im pretty newb so I haven't tried a lot in your list to begin with... but Im very curious on how it would compare. I bought mine about a month ago and I am in love with it! Its absolutely fantastic quality, and I really surprised by the cost given Im pretty new to this field and wasn't really sure what I was getting. I know a lot of really good, high end products costs lots and I have a limited budget at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needless to say, this was great!


----------



## marleyfan

Can someone post a current link to Go-Vibe's website. The links posted previously in this thread seem to bring me to a godaddy hosted seach site. Or can u post some other link where I may be able to buy a go-vibe amp. thanks


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marleyfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone post a current link to Go-Vibe's website. The links posted previously in this thread seem to bring me to a godaddy hosted seach site. Or can u post some other link where I may be able to buy a go-vibe amp. thanks_

 

Go-Vibe no longer exists. The guy who used to make them stopped. The only way you could get them is in the FS forums.


----------



## Dual

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Go-Vibe no longer exists. The guy who used to make them stopped. The only way you could get them is in the FS forums._

 

Actually the Go-Vibe line has been past on to Jaben when Norm retired. Jaben are planning to bring back the original and maxxed versions of the V7 Go-Vibe.

 Check it out.

http://jaben.net/forums/index.php?PH...gk2&board=72.0


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *StayOnBoard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you ever tried the Cute Beyond? I didn't see it in your list at all, and I have to admit Im pretty newb so I haven't tried a lot in your list to begin with... but Im very curious on how it would compare. I bought mine about a month ago and I am in love with it! Its absolutely fantastic quality, and I really surprised by the cost given Im pretty new to this field and wasn't really sure what I was getting. I know a lot of really good, high end products costs lots and I have a limited budget at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Needless to say, this was great!_

 

I have not ever heard a Cute Beyond, but I am sure it's a nice product. I like my Firestone FUBAR II.


----------



## GeorgeM

Hey Skylab,
 Will you ever review poor man's amp? the Cmoy's on ebay?? 





 Thanks for your awesome reviews!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, George. Unless a CMoy maker wants to lend me one to review, no, I won't be reviewing one. I no longer buy amps to review them, unless I actually want to own it.


----------



## dw6928

I know portables have been the thrust of your reviewing, but I am curious to hear if you have ever spent time with a Heed Can-Amp (Hungary). Thank you.


----------



## Skylab

Ummm...not yet?


----------



## dw6928

just curious


----------



## marleyfan

HELP!!!

 Sky, and all the rest you have been an incredible source of info, but sometimes too much info is not a good thing. I've read probably 40 or so of the pages in this thread and still have no idea what amp to get.

 So I'm throwing it out to the community and asking for opinions. I'll tell you what I have and you tell me what to get.

 My equipment is listed in my sig. I mostly use the Clix but niether DAP has line out so I'll be using headphone out. On the road I use the SF5Pro's. I havent yet received the MS1's but I'll be using them with the DAP at home (I almost never use my home audo any more). I sometimes use my laptop as my source.

 My music is mostly rock but runs from Jack Johnson to Bush or Green Day. Most of my files are dowloaded mp3's at around 160 to 192. I can get Flac or wmv files at higher bitrate if I need to (and I know I will to appreciate an amp).

 I want to spend less than $200. I want an amp that will give good clean sound and will provide clean solid thumpy bass. I have considered going cheap (penguinamp caffine) to more pricey (Lectern Audo UHA-3).

 So there you have it. If you need more info just ask. Other than that give me you best suggestions.

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Skylab

Marleyfan:

 Part of the reason for this review is I don't like recommending specific amps. That's why I wrote the review, to try to give people some idea of how different amps sound. The BODY of my review is much more helpful than the ranking.

 But I invite others to make recommendations to you.


----------



## Asr

marleyfan, if neither of your DAPs are lined out yet why are you looking for an amp? The two go hand in hand, you shouldn't get one without the other. Go direct from the headphone jack for now, save up to get an amp and line-out later.

 If you listen from a computer often, look into one of the USB DACs instead - in products that have been released there's the iBasso D1, Meier Audio Corda Move, HeadRoom 2007 Micro. Unreleased but coming soon are the HeadAmp Pico and RSA Predator.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Don't forget the, gasp, Headstage USB DAC (with or without amp) if you want to improve the laptop sound.

 For a DAP with only headphone out, I do still see amps as having a function even when line out is NOT available - although typically an amp is used to allow listening to the DAP or CPD via the cleaner sounding line out. But, for instance if you have headphones that are shy on bass, then an amp that can produce more bass than the DAP can give via EQ is good - like me using a Penguin Caffeine with my ER6i. Or, with an earphone that is shy on treble, then finding an an amp that synergizes well with it is a good thing - like my Shure SE530 + iBasso D1 or Tomahawk.

 Marleyfan, your Super.fi 5 pro are NOT lacking in either bass or bright treble, so then if it's an issue of lack of output volume, and amp can help. Also, some headphones are more difficult to drive, and the DAP may not have complete control over the headphone drivers, and an amp will do a better job. The Super.fi 5 pro typically don't have that problem either, but my Ultrasone iCans have BOTH problems and ALWAYS sound better when driven by my penguin than straight out of my iPod.


----------



## marleyfan

Thanks for the replies so far. You may have saved me some money. Or, you may have given me reason to spend more. So here's the question. Would it be worth it to use the penguinamp caffine with my MS1's to increase the bass. Given that I haven't acually heard the MS1's with either DAP yet it may be moot point. As you can probably tell from my questions and my post count I am new to all of this. I've managed to live the first 46 years of my life without indulging in portable audio. But now that I am, I want the best sound that my limited budget can buy.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

YOU need to listen to your setup first, before moving ahead, I think.


----------



## Mulo

Hello Skylab,

 I know that they aren't exactly portable amps, but since their price and size would seem to convey them more resemblance than difference with the proper portables, wouldn't you possibly add the Cute Beyond and Encore amps in your fantastic review? Maybe add the Battery Cute II which is indeed a portable...

 Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I'd be happy to include them, but the manufacturer would need to loan them to me. Anyone know how to get in touch with Firestone Audio?


----------



## PPkiller

try contacting jaben? they are one of the distributors for firestone audio... sometimes jaben has new firestone products in their store few months before it is publicly announce by firestone.. 
http://jaben.net/forums/index.php


----------



## Mulo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not ever heard a Cute Beyond, but I am sure it's a nice product. I like my Firestone FUBAR II._

 

I see. I await a review, btw!


----------



## GnuB

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *marleyfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HELP!!!
 I want to spend less than $200. I want an amp that will give good clean sound and will provide clean solid thumpy bass. I have considered going cheap (penguinamp caffine) to more pricey (Lectern Audo UHA-3)._

 

My $0.02

 I spent a lot of time also reading all the reviews trying to choose the "Best" amp, and since I couldn't pick a clear winner, decided to go with the Penguin Caffeine and USB DAC cable as an inexpensive first step so I could get some experience that might help me decide if I would want a more expensive amp.

 It was a good choice for me. I am really enjoying listening to music through the amp. The sources are my laptop -> usb dac -> penguin -> Ety ER-4P and Cowon D2 -> penguin -> ER-4P. The amp adds bass depth and impact and open-ness to both sources, so for me, it was well worth the $115 including shipping. There may be a reason to get another amp later but right now I'm happy. 

 Back in the day, I pursued the audiophile dream with tube equipment, belt drive turntables, expensive cables and the whole bit. It turned out that I was listening to the equipment more than the music. I don't want to fall into that trap again. 

 So "Best" would be whatever gets you listening to music and enjoying it without amp-envy. The Penguin might work for you.


----------



## marleyfan

Thanks to all who have responded. All advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## 1012007

What dimensions is the Minibox E???


----------



## Podster

http://www.head-direct.com/product_detail.php?p=15#


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Minibox-E dimension: 80mm*67mm*16mm.


----------



## 1012007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ckhirnigs113* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Minibox-E dimension: 80mm*67mm*16mm._

 

What do you think of it. Is there bass and what features are on it. I know there is a P to S but anything else?


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Did you go look at the Head-Direct site? It has a PtoS switch, bass boost and a soundstage switch. This is my first headphone amp, but it seems very smooth and neutral to me. It does the whole spectrum well, without over-emphasizing anything. It's really small and it comes with an interconnect and power cord, so I think it is a great deal. Mine isn't fully burned in, but it sounds great right now.


----------



## 1012007

What does the soundstage switch do?

 Is it effective or just doesnt do much


----------



## ckhirnigs113

I don't use it very much, and the change is not very large. Some say it is good to use when watching tv or a movie.


----------



## 1012007

lol i thought you were talking about the amp for a minute. I forgot what i wrote and when i read it through my email notification i got a shock


----------



## WatCult

It seems like iBasso is coming out with the next new portable amp - P2

 Our local distributor just received a sample unit for testing.

 The new P2 is suppose to be better amp than their previous product. DIP socket for opamp rolling together with Bass and Gain switch

http://www.sgheadphones.net/index.ph...=0&#entry95878


----------



## Skylab

I am supposed to get a review sample of the P2 when it comes out.


----------



## WatCult

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am supposed to get a review sample of the P2 when it comes out._

 

Great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will be waiting to hear your review.


----------



## stevenjchang

delete


----------



## Skylab

I have received my Quables iQube, and it looks like that will be next in terms of being added to this review.


----------



## Podster

Nice Sky, waiting to hear/read your impressions of this Class D machine. Fit and finish look second to none in the photo's I've veiwed


----------



## Skylab

It is definitely a thing of beauty. Sounds good too.


----------



## Podster

Seems it would look very special strapped to a black iTank 

 Be a little on the large side for vigerous portable use but that could probably be overcome easily with the right case 

 Look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems it would look very special strapped to a black iTank 

 Be a little on the large side for vigerous portable use but that could probably be overcome easily with the right case 

 Look forward to your impressions._

 

LOL...you mean sort of like this?


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL...you mean sort of like this?




_

 

LOL exactly.........actually that rig probably looks real small on Shaq's head and in his hands:-0


----------



## facelvega

Sky, now that Xenos is RIP, Go-Vibe temporarily moribund, the Meier portables you review all out of pruduction, and I'm sure a couple of others have gone the way of the dodo, maybe it's time for a quick edit just on the ranking list, so people can tell at a glance what's still in production and what isn't? I'm just thinking parentheses or something similar. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_marleyfan, if neither of your DAPs are lined out yet why are you looking for an amp? The two go hand in hand, you shouldn't get one without the other._

 

This is silly. Portable headphone amps were invented to amp headphone outs, not line outs. Plain-jane headphone out signals can sound dramatically better when they are feeding an amp instead of driving transducers. And anyway, most line outs in general and especially portable ones don't bypass the opamps, they just bypass the volume attenuator, which now happens mostly in the digital stage, so there is actually very little difference between the line-out signal and the headphone out. 

 Line outs are great, and can have a good impact on SQ, but that's no reason to scare people away from amping their cruddy mp3 players, which would be a real improvement for them.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *facelvega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sky, now that Xenos is RIP, Go-Vibe temporarily moribund, the Meier portables you review all out of pruduction, and I'm sure a couple of others have gone the way of the dodo, maybe it's time for a quick edit just on the ranking list, so people can tell at a glance what's still in production and what isn't? I'm just thinking parentheses or something similar. 
_

 

Yeah, I have been thinking about this quite a bit actually. Part of me thinks I should get rid of all the no longer available amps on my list. But at the same time, many people own them still, and it serves as a good reference point. So maybe I should just put down "DISCONTINUED" by the ones that are.

 Other thoughts on this?


----------



## ironman64

Members continue to pick up secondhand components, so keeping the total list in tact would be nice, or even adding just before it a quick ranking of in-production amps. And if the list were to remain in tact, something subtle and easy to designate would be perfect, such as removing the number from the ranking.

 i.e.,

 1. Amp X
 2. Amp Y
 * Amp Q
 3. Amp M
 * Amp E
 * Amp R
 4. Amp D


----------



## Podster

I think facelvega has a great idea on this one Sky. Maybe just a disco in parentheses out beside those not offered except second hand any longer as old units do make good reference points for current users which can and does generate new question threads


----------



## facelvega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I have been thinking about this quite a bit actually. Part of me thinks I should get rid of all the no longer available amps on my list. But at the same time, many people own them still, and it serves as a good reference point. So maybe I should just put down "DISCONTINUED" by the ones that are.

 Other thoughts on this?_

 

There are enough of the discontinued ones still in circulation that I think people would still find it helpful to have them in the mix, not only for used purposes but also to have an idea how a possible upgrade would sound in relation to the amp someone already has. For this reason, I think the best path would be simply to add a notation to the rankings and individual listings. (I think the rankings section would be especially important for this, so that people could see the state of the market at a glance) 

 Maybe you could rearrange the listings with laborious cutting/pasting into two sections, or just make it alphabetical, though frankly I don't think it's too much work to find a particular listing as it is.

 And hey, what's your policy on the new penguins and headstages? If Herr Gehrke sent you one, would you review it, or is the lingering bad vibe from the Corda crossfeed controversy enough to keep them off the list? I'm wondering in particular how those cheap but very cleanly laid-out penguins would stack up to their more expensive competitors, enough that I for one would send him an email asking him to send you a couple of review examples. I'm thinking of moving up from the Go-Vibe V6 in my portable rig, but I like to keep my portable set pretty cheap and focus on my home rig for the bigger upgrades, so the Penguin Caffeine is a real option for me.


----------



## Skylab

OK, when I add the iQube to the review (soon), I will make a notation on the ranking as to the discontinued amps. Good suggestions all.

 W/r/t "HeadStage", Robert has not contacted me asking me to do a review, and he knows how to reach me.


----------



## Podster

Excellent Skypup? Skydude? Whatever it is:-0 LOL

 Love the new Avatar Rob, I've been digging around as I know I've seen a pic of Scooby Doo with headphones on and that is exactly what I thought of when I saw your new Avi


----------



## Skylab

Thanks. I find the coolest stuff on Google Images...


----------



## Skylab

I just updated the main thread with the following:

*Update 12-5-07*

*> Qables iQube*

 Info: i-Qube - A new dimension in portable hi-fi » home

 The iQube is a very interesting amp. It's a class D amplifier topology. This is the first of its kind as far as I know - a class D portable headphone amp. Class D has at least the potential of being more battery-efficient, and I did get almost 100 hours of play on the first set of AAA alkalines I had in it (which I used up in 100 hours of break in). The iQube will charge rechargeables, but it doesn't come with them, nor does it come with a charger, although it has a fairly wide tolerance for AC adapters it would seem.

*Build Quality:* A+: Excellent, VERY attractive metal case. I wasn't sure at first about having the jack on the back and the volume control on the front, but I loved it in the end. There is a very slight turn-on tick. But overall, the build quality is among the very, very best, and it's the kind of thing that gives great pride of ownership.
*Treble:* A+: clean, clear, grain-free, extended and transparent. Great air and extension, and very natural. It wasn't too aggressive ever, but it wasn't at all soft or rolled off. I wouldn't use it with super-bright headphones. But this really isn't the iQube doing anything other than being VERY neutral.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open - with amazing see-through type clarity, while being tonally very neutral. There is perhaps just a touch of reticence, but not enough to worry about.
*Bass:* A: Ultra-deep and powerful, with excellent definition and speed. VERY tight, but not overly generous. Again, Neutral comes to mind.
*Neutrality:* A+: The new king of Neutrality. Over and over again that's how I thought of it. Easily shows the difference between headphones in a flash. Only the LISA III is in the same league here. While I still love the Meier Move, it has a "sound" moreso than the iQube.
*Soundstaging:* A-: The soundstage was great, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. Still, nothing to sneeze at.
*Transparency:* A: Nothing to take issue with here either. Try as I might to pick up some kind of issue with transparency related to the use of class D, I couldn't. I just loved it.

 I have to say, I was HIGHLY impressed by the iQube. Unfortunately for those in the USA, the current dollar>Euro exchange rate makes the iQube pretty expensive -- as of today, it would cost the American buyer over $460, and January 1 it will cost about $500 (at current exchange rates). And as good as it is, I personally don't think it's enough better than the other top amps to easily justify that price here. I know there is nothing Hans at Qables can do about his costs, or the dollar to euro exchange rate, but it is a pity. If this amp could be had in the US for $335, it would be very easy to recommend as the best buy in high-end headphone amps. But it's $335 EUROS. So for everyone in Europe, this is a great amp to get. For those in the US, I think it requires a little more thought. Nonetheless, it's a superlative headphone amp.





*Conclusions (12/5/07)*


 OK, so now it’s now 30 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE (discontinued)
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV (discontinued)
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)


----------



## BushGuy

Nah - the pup deserves bigger ears


----------



## jamato8

There are a lot of discontinued amps. Why was the Move dc already? The pace of amps and dacs seems to be clipping along at warp speed.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a lot of discontinued amps. Why was the Move dc already? The pace of amps and dacs seems to be clipping along at warp speed._

 

True so.

 w/r/t the Move, Dr. Meier sold out of the production run, and from what I gather, he intends to change the design before re-introducing it.


----------



## ironman64

Thank you for the update! I know this is "only one member's opinion," but it goes a long way towards making an informative, beginning point from which anyone can sort out the bevy of portable amps we have to choose from--that's quickly growing!


----------



## tnmike1

Rob: I thought Ray had ceased production of the Hornet for while, and Cesar had trouble with parts for the Portaphile. So, are these still in construction or should they be considered "discontinued" as well???


----------



## Skylab

I don't know about the Portaphile, but pretty sure the Hornet is still in production.


----------



## FreeBlues

Sky - great stuff as usual.

 I'd like to offer a different take on the value of the iQube. Now, I don't own one, never heard it, haven't seen it but have anxiously awaited a review. You place it between the LISA and PRII, both of which are (or were) $500 plus. I don't think one can get a PRII anymore, at least new. LISA's are supposed to start shipping soon, but aren't yet. The last version was also $500.

 So, it seems that the top 3 amps in your ranking are $500+, meaning the iQube is maybe simply competitive.

 Of special interest to me is the size. While still large compared to say a Tomahawk, it looks smaller than the PRII and is quite a bit smaller than the LISA. This is VERY good news for those of us that are currently packing a PRII and were thinking about getting a LISA!

 Sure $500 is a lot for a portable amp. Welcome to Head Fi!

 Now I can't wait to see how this compares to the Pico...


----------



## mencargo

Hi there!
 What about Total BitHead?, seems like a great warrior.

 Is there a similar thread with dac->amp for desktop comparisons like Beresford 7510?
 I'm interested in those too!


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just drop it the iQables website to have a look at the iQube.
 Despite it amazing look, the price is out of my reach 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'm waiting for your review of the P2, Skylab


----------



## Skylab

Actually, the price is a bit lower than I had thought on the iQube - I have corrected the post. Still expensive, but if you order before the end of the year, it will cost $463 in the US.


----------



## mencargo

No comments for Total BitHead?


----------



## Skylab

It's been discussed here before. My comments:

 1. I do not buy amps just to review them unless I actually want to own them. I bought an iQube because I wanted one. Otherwise, the maker has to loan me one to review. 

 2. The Bithead is an older design. I have offered HeadRoom to review the MicroAmp if they would loan me one, but after initially being told that I would get one to review after they came out, my request to get a review sample after the release was not replied to. So there you go.


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just updated the main thread with the following:

*Update 12-5-07*

*> Qables iQube*

 Info: i-Qube - A new dimension in portable hi-fi » home

 The iQube is a very interesting amp. It's a class D amplifier topology. This is the first of its kind as far as I know - a class D portable headphone amp. Class D has at least the potential of being more battery-efficient, and I did get almost 100 hours of play on the first set of AAA alkalines I had in it (which I used up in 100 hours of break in). The iQube will charge rechargeables, but it doesn't come with them, nor does it come with a charger, although it has a fairly wide tolerance for AC adapters it would seem.

*Build Quality:* A+: Excellent, VERY attractive metal case. I wasn't sure at first about having the jack on the back and the volume control on the front, but I loved it in the end. There is a very slight turn-on tick. But overall, the build quality is among the very, very best, and it's the kind of thing that gives great pride of ownership.
*Treble:* A+: clean, clear, grain-free, extended and transparent. Great air and extension, and very natural. It wasn't too aggressive ever, but it wasn't at all soft or rolled off. I wouldn't use it with super-bright headphones. But this really isn't the iQube doing anything other than being VERY neutral.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open - with amazing see-through type clarity, while being tonally very neutral. There is perhaps just a touch of reticence, but not enough to worry about.
*Bass:* A: Ultra-deep and powerful, with excellent definition and speed. VERY tight, but not overly generous. Again, Neutral comes to mind.
*Neutrality:* A+: The new king of Neutrality. Over and over again that's how I thought of it. Easily shows the difference between headphones in a flash. Only the LISA III is in the same league here. While I still love the Meier Move, it has a "sound" moreso than the iQube.
*Soundstaging:* A-: The soundstage was great, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. Still, nothing to sneeze at.
*Transparency:* A: Nothing to take issue with here either. Try as I might to pick up some kind of issue with transparency related to the use of class D, I couldn't. I just loved it.

 I have to say, I was HIGHLY impressed by the iQube. Unfortunately for those in the USA, the current dollar>Euro exchange rate makes the iQube pretty expensive -- as of today, it would cost the American buyer over $460, and January 1 it will cost about $500 (at current exchange rates). And as good as it is, I personally don't think it's enough better than the other top amps to easily justify that price here. I know there is nothing Hans at Qables can do about his costs, or the dollar to euro exchange rate, but it is a pity. If this amp could be had in the US for $335, it would be very easy to recommend as the best buy in high-end headphone amps. But it's $335 EUROS. So for everyone in Europe, this is a great amp to get. For those in the US, I think it requires a little more thought. Nonetheless, it's a superlative headphone amp.





*Conclusions (12/5/07)*


 OK, so now it’s now 30 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE (discontinued)
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV (discontinued)
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)_

 

Nice Rob, with the disco in there I think more lookers can become faster buyers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did want to mention I did not see the Headsix in here or am I missing it (then again maybe you have not reviewed it!)??


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice Rob, with the disco in there I think more lookers can become faster buyers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did want to mention I did not see the Headsix in here or am I missing it (then again maybe you have not reviewed it!)??_

 

Thanks! No, no plan to review the Headsix. Jan Meier has been vary gracious in loaning me amps to review before. When I asked him to loan me a Headsix, he declined, saying that since it's a limited edition, it didn't make sense to him, which I totally understood. 

 Since I bought (and like and use) a Meier MOVE, no point in my buying a Headsix


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! No, no plan to review the Headsix. Jan Meier has been vary gracious in loaning me amps to review before. When I asked him to loan me a Headsix, he declined, saying that since it's a limited edition, it didn't make sense to him, which I totally understood. 

 Since I bought (and like and use) a Meier MOVE, no point in my buying a Headsix_

 

Understood, and based on some of the other reviews I've read it's very close to your move.

 I'm thinking you might get a hold of C&C and give the new Box+ a review as I'm hoping it has improved since the original Box. Seems like the new one has some of the XO in it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm also with you on the iQube, I've yet to buy a cheap BMW


----------



## djbob

Thanks for the wonderful reviews. As someone new to this I find your reviews/opinions to be valuable info. in assisting me on purchasing an Amp.

 BTW, in the first post, the Headstage Lyrix was reviewed. Where did it end up? My eyes are glazed over from reading all day so I may have overlooked it.

 Great job and thanks again.


----------



## Remitrom

Wow, the competition is getting closer!! LISA III is still # 1 !!
 ( with considerations for size, power, and costs) my e-mail is overwhelmed by Questions because Lisa does not fit clearly
 as a portable or any other category really. So here is an exsert
 from a reply to share some understanding of LISA III
 Lisa III was designed to have the audio qualities of a $2 K amp.
 we have No advertising budget, pay no markup to distributors and have
 passed those savings onto our customers. So even more people can
 afford Lisa, we have separated the Lisa Lab Power supply for those
 that do not have the additional $300. (Those get Elpac 24 vlt cntr pstv
 ,we do not supply) So you see we have discounted the price for everybody,
 We expect the next batch to become available and will accept payments
 when they are tested satisfactorily. next week!
 Thanks for your interest.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djbob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the wonderful reviews. As someone new to this I find your reviews/opinions to be valuable info. in assisting me on purchasing an Amp.

 BTW, in the first post, the Headstage Lyrix was reviewed. Where did it end up? My eyes are glazed over from reading all day so I may have overlooked it.

 Great job and thanks again._

 

Thanks for the kind words! I actually did not review the Headstage Lyrix.


----------



## antonyfirst

Hello Sky! Thanks for the great job, like always! I wanted to ask some things about the iQube. How big is it (maybe compared to the Xin Supermacro or Mini^3)?
 Also, is it true it has three positions bass boost? Which frequencies are boosted? Is it any similar to LisaIII bass knob in frequency boosting?
 Finally, would you think it's a great match for Etys (especially with the said bass boost)?
 Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words! The iQube is about the size of a full-sized iPod, but a little thicker. It does not have bass boost of any kind, though. I have no idea how it would sound with Etys, as I have never heard any. Sorry.


----------



## djbob

Quote:


 > Headphonia

 Info: Headphonia.com

 My Headphonia was loaded with every feature, and it is a feature-rich amp when configured this way– USB DAC (which I tried and works very well), Crossfeed, gain and impedance matching, a Class-A mode, battery charger, etc- WOW. The most feature rich amp here, without being even close to the most expensive. Also, there is a newer version of the Headphonia with a different op-amp, even though mine is only one month old. The maker has graciously offered to send me this new version, and let me decide which one I want to keep! Excellent customer service there, I have to say.

 Build Quality: B+: As noted, plastic Hammond cases will never score higher than a B+ for me in build quality, but beyond that the build quality is excellent. There is a zero turn-on thump. Battery access is kind of difficult, but there IS a battery charging circuit, so I was not likely to remove the battery. The amp does NOT come with a charger, but the one for the RSA Hornet actually works perfectly . The amp exhibits zero noise at all. 
 Treble: A: smooth, extended, airy, detailed, very pleasant – really its strong suit, and equal to the best of the amps here (the PRII betters it just slightly). 
 Midrange: A: generally smooth and clean, open and transparent, not forward just not recessed – just right.
 Bass: B+: a little light, very good definition and depth. Noticeably less bass than the Hornet. Lacking just enough in this regard to keep the amp from being a true giant killer.
 Neutrality: A-: slightly weak bass prevents a perfect score here – very neutral otherwise.
 Soundstaging: A-: excellent width and good depth – good performance here.
 Transparency: A: Among the very best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music.

 I was clearly impressed by the Headphonia, even though I really didn’t expect to be. It sounds great, has features a-plenty available (although smartly the amp can be ordered without them for less money if the user prefers). I lot to like here. 

 UPDATE 2/2/07:

 I received the updated Headphonia, with the AD op-amp. This version of the amp is slightly better still, with a little warmer sound, and a little less treble energy, but still very dteailed and transparent sounding. I think just as highly of it as the original version.

 UPDATE 3/20/07:

 Something has come to light that makes it impossible for me to recommend the Headphonia amp anymore without some reservation. You can read about it here: Weird problem with iTunes and one song - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio People should be aware of this issue before making up their own mind about purchasing this amp. 
 

When I said Headstage Lyrix I thought it was this amp. Also, under the update of 3/20/07 I guess I don't understand what the Weird problem with Itunes had to do with this amp. Can you elaborate? The reason I ask is because I have what seems to be a good deal on one, however, I don't want to waste my money.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djbob* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I said Headstage Lyrix I thought it was this amp. Also, under the update of 3/20/07 I guess I don't understand what the Weird problem with Itunes had to do with this amp. Can you elaborate? The reason I ask is because I have what seems to be a good deal on one, however, I don't want to waste my money._

 

I'm sorry, the head-fi crash corrupted the link database and that "weird iTunes Problem" is not what was supposed to be linked to. 

 The Headphonia amp and the Headstage Lyrix are not exactly the same I think (and hope). I have not reviewed the Headstage. You can learn about the issue with the Headphonia by searching. I really don;t want to get into it again here.


----------



## FreeBlues

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As usual no shocks in your ranking Skylab. Price and quality go very much hand in hand in your world.

 Btw, how much does the Qables iQube cost?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saw what kind of price the iQube has. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I thought that Skylab had begun a process of purification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I was very interested in these anyway, Sky's review just was just the sort of info I was waiting on.

 With shipping to the US, the cost is $530.25.

 I just received word that mine was shipped today!


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saw what kind of price the iQube has. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And I thought that Skylab had begun a process of purification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Your syntax is vaguely familiar. Have you ever posted in Headfi before under a different name? Just seems oddly similar to someone who used to post frequently.


----------



## Skylab

Funny, then, that there is an amp that sold for $200 at the top of my rankings


----------



## facelvega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's notorious how you celebrate Meier amps; and still, it 'only' ranks fourth in your list, the former three all being $500 stuff.

 More than that, it's apparent that there's a singular correspondence between price and position in your ranking from top to bottom. One may well see that as most natural; me, I don't necessarily see it so, especially as often design quality doesn't increase with price (this is objective). Of course I can't say anything for sure until I get a chance to hear all those amps, that is, forever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is awful insinuation, shame on you. Skylab never claims to be objective. How many dozens of times has he had to say that this is just his opinion? Maybe he celebrates Meier amps because they tend to really fit his tastes, and maybe because they really do sound better for being a great deal in the cost of production vs. end price ratio. 

 I have no doubt that if I had all the amps in question on hand, using my orthodynamics and not the headphones Sky used, and with my hearing, music, and tastes, I'd come up with a different order in the rankings and grades. But I might not come up with such different characterizations of their sound in the descriptions. Skylab has performed a service here, putting in a great deal of time and cash with no more reward than a lot of thank-you posts. It takes two seconds to sling mud at what took hundreds of hours to test and write.

 I personally use cheap amps for my portables, and I'm wiling to bet just from the parts, circuit, and the few reviews I've read that a cheapo penguin caffeine would outperform most of this list, but I seriously doubt Skylab is letting himself get unduly suckered by big price tags. After all, who (except maybe mrarroyo and vorlon1) has built up such a broad experience from which to judge these little amps?


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's notorious how you celebrate Meier amps; and still, it 'only' ranks fourth in your list, the former three all being $500 stuff.

 More than that, it's apparent that there's a singular correspondence between price and position in your ranking from top to bottom. One may well see that as most natural; me, I don't necessarily see it so, especially as often design quality doesn't increase with price (this is objective). Of course I can't say anything for sure until I get a chance to hear all those amps, that is, forever. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Colt,
 at it again? no lesson learned?


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *facelvega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is awful insinuation, shame on you. Skylab never claims to be objective. How many dozens of times has he had to say that this is just his opinion? Maybe he celebrates Meier amps because they tend to really fit his tastes, and maybe because they really do sound better for being a great deal in the cost of production vs. end price ratio. 

 I have no doubt that if I had all the amps in question on hand, using my orthodynamics and not the headphones Sky used, and with my hearing, music, and tastes, I'd come up with a different order in the rankings and grades. But I might not come up with such different characterizations of their sound in the descriptions. Skylab has performed a service here, putting in a great deal of time and cash with no more reward than a lot of thank-you posts. It takes two seconds to sling mud at what took hundreds of hours to test and write.

 I personally use cheap amps for my portables, and I'm wiling to bet just from the parts, circuit, and the few reviews I've read that a cheapo penguin caffeine would outperform most of this list, but I seriously doubt Skylab is letting himself get unduly suckered by big price tags. After all, who (except maybe mrarroyo and voltron1) has built up such a broad experience from which to judge these little amps?_

 

Very well put Face
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just because Head-Fi gave Colt a license does not necessarily mean they can drive yet


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No one doubts that Skylab has truly been helpful to many (if perhaps not all). But all the unending, uncritical praise is so boring. Is it just me?_

 

Considering the time Sky gives to this site which to the best of my knowledge benefits all I can let him slide if he has a small penchant for Jan's work which Sky is not the only Head-Fi'er to praise Jan's amps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Let's work outside the Colt box on this one and you'll be just fine


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Colt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It surely doesn't benefit much those who disagree with him ('cause there do exist a few, to the best of my knowledge). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Agreed Colt, I too don't always agree with the reviewers here but then again I don't stab at them either! If anything I truly believe they are all well intentioned
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could be the difference I'm over 50 and learned many moons ago that one does not bite the hand that feeds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Passion is a good thing


----------



## McCol

Question for Skylab or anybody else that can help.

 I am thinking of buying the Practical Devices XM4 with the AD8620 installed. Compared to your original review would the amp place higher in your rankings with this installed? I do like what i've read on this amp and am tempted to buy for my ety er4p.


----------



## Skylab

I'm sorry I can't say, as I haven't heard it with that op-amp; maybe someone else can comment.


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *McCol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for Skylab or anybody else that can help.

 I am thinking of buying the Practical Devices XM4 with the AD8620 installed. Compared to your original review would the amp place higher in your rankings with this installed? I do like what i've read on this amp and am tempted to buy for my ety er4p._

 

I have a Practical Devices XM3 and I bought the Whitecat mod for it. This is just an AD8620 on an adaptor. I think it has significantly improved the sound quality, making it more natural, organic and fluid. This comment is based on using it with my DT880s and my K701s. I think Practical Devices should make it clear that the Whitecat mod fits the XM3 as well as the XM4 and indicate how to fit it because the circuit boards are different and you have to guess how to fit it to an XM3 (not difficult). I would think the AD8620 makes the XM4 a much more competitive amp, bearing in mind it functionality, with crossfeed, battery charging and bass boost (I've never heard the XM4's bass boost, but I have some recordings that the crossfeed really helps.)


----------



## mrarroyo

The AD8620 does a make for a nice difference in the XM4. I remember sending a PM to them when I tried it on an XM3. At the time they said it would be considered for a future implementation. I am glad it is being offered as an alternative.

 skylab, if you still have th iBasso D1 and can get your hands on a pair of LHM6643 for the buffers and an AD8599 for the L/R amp give it a try. What a major improvement over the LM4562 and the OPA2107 I sent you.


----------



## Skylab

Actually, the D1 is gone, as part of my holiday amp giveaway


----------



## ChickenGod

The SuperMicro IV is discontinued?


----------



## ridethelightning

Actually my first post . Very helpful review. I am looking to buy a portable amp and this review will help me decide .


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, the D1 is gone, as part of my holiday amp giveaway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Man, I sure need to become closer pals with you Sky
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL 

 I'm the same way, buy way too much equipment and end up turning friends on to gear, may not be spreading the love but hope I'm helping some come more in tune and appreciative of quality vibes


----------



## Quaddy

just a nitpicky point, you have stated that the XiN supermicro IV is dicontinued? - lol i know the wait is long but..


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Quaddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just a nitpicky point, you have stated that the XiN supermicro IV is dicontinued? - lol i know the wait is long but.._

 


 OOOPS! LOL. Sorry, I have corrected that.


----------



## stylustip

Nice to meet you.
 My heart is doing nervously.
 This be because it is my first note.
 Permit my strange English.
 I obtained DIABLO recently.
 I tried to listen to it promptly.
 I liked the sound of DIABLO.
 However, regrettably as for my DIABLO, BASS does not change at all.
 Everybody of DIABLO wa how?


----------



## Skylab

Hello, and welcome to head-fi.

 You might want to ask the question about the Diablo here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dia...facing-263566/


----------



## stylustip

Thank you! Skylab.
 I will go.


----------



## kirkosanto

Skylab - just bought a Quables iQube based on your review. It is absolutely awesome - many thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Glad you like it! I continue to enjoy mine.


----------



## facelvega

Hey Sky, did Robert Gehrke ever get in touch with you about sending sample amps? I emailed him as I mentioned a while ago, and his reply made it sound like he was going to write you, but that's the last I heard of it.


----------



## SACD-Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just updated the main thread with the following:

*Update 12-5-07*

*> Qables iQube*

 Info: i-Qube - A new dimension in portable hi-fi » home

 The iQube is a very interesting amp. It's a class D amplifier topology. This is the first of its kind as far as I know - a class D portable headphone amp. Class D has at least the potential of being more battery-efficient, and I did get almost 100 hours of play on the first set of AAA alkalines I had in it (which I used up in 100 hours of break in). The iQube will charge rechargeables, but it doesn't come with them, nor does it come with a charger, although it has a fairly wide tolerance for AC adapters it would seem.

*Build Quality:* A+: Excellent, VERY attractive metal case. I wasn't sure at first about having the jack on the back and the volume control on the front, but I loved it in the end. There is a very slight turn-on tick. But overall, the build quality is among the very, very best, and it's the kind of thing that gives great pride of ownership.
*Treble:* A+: clean, clear, grain-free, extended and transparent. Great air and extension, and very natural. It wasn't too aggressive ever, but it wasn't at all soft or rolled off. I wouldn't use it with super-bright headphones. But this really isn't the iQube doing anything other than being VERY neutral.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open - with amazing see-through type clarity, while being tonally very neutral. There is perhaps just a touch of reticence, but not enough to worry about.
*Bass:* A: Ultra-deep and powerful, with excellent definition and speed. VERY tight, but not overly generous. Again, Neutral comes to mind.
*Neutrality:* A+: The new king of Neutrality. Over and over again that's how I thought of it. Easily shows the difference between headphones in a flash. Only the LISA III is in the same league here. While I still love the Meier Move, it has a "sound" moreso than the iQube.
*Soundstaging:* A-: The soundstage was great, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. Still, nothing to sneeze at.
*Transparency:* A: Nothing to take issue with here either. Try as I might to pick up some kind of issue with transparency related to the use of class D, I couldn't. I just loved it.

 I have to say, I was HIGHLY impressed by the iQube. Unfortunately for those in the USA, the current dollar>Euro exchange rate makes the iQube pretty expensive -- as of today, it would cost the American buyer over $460, and January 1 it will cost about $500 (at current exchange rates). And as good as it is, I personally don't think it's enough better than the other top amps to easily justify that price here. I know there is nothing Hans at Qables can do about his costs, or the dollar to euro exchange rate, but it is a pity. If this amp could be had in the US for $335, it would be very easy to recommend as the best buy in high-end headphone amps. But it's $335 EUROS. So for everyone in Europe, this is a great amp to get. For those in the US, I think it requires a little more thought. Nonetheless, it's a superlative headphone amp.





*Conclusions (12/5/07)*


 OK, so now it’s now 30 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE (discontinued)
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV (discontinued)
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)_

 


 Have you ever listen to or prefer not to list any Headroom amps? I have several of their top dog amps and in comparison, can be high on this list. The i-Qube does stand out to be an amp to be compared to. Rich sound field with tight lows, clear highs and decent mid or voice. I hear quick response with both upbeat material as well as slow sounding classical. My only "getting use to" comment circles around the soundstage. To me, there is a slight lack of center imaging. Look at it as 3 circles. One, left stage, two, right stage and three middle. All 3 need to blend accordingly. After 150+ hours of burn-in, this has improved, but I hear a missing piece in the middle or there seems to be an aggressive left/right imaging. At first, I was completely turned off, but after awhile the other fantastic qualities started to show up and the imaging started to improve after burn-in. 

 One area that I think should not be overlooked is fatigue. I know most amp reviews usually do not talk about it since most folks might not care. I however DO! This amp has amazing fatigue-less attributes. I have listened to hours and not a single time I thought I was fatigued. Granted, many other factors play into this including headphones. By the way, all of my comments are focused on me listening with the new UE 11pro's. AMAZING! 

 I totally agree that the US dollar could play a part in sales. There are some of us who do not care and will pay for whatever it takes to make their ears happy. Unfortunately, I'm one and have a hole in my wallet to show for it!!!

 Overall, thanks for your review! I agree that this amp rocks. Thanks again Hans.


----------



## Skylab

I have not been contacted by Mr. Gehrke. And similarly, as stated above, Headroom has declined my offer to review their amps.


----------



## inkbyfinch

hey Skylab, thank you for your review on the amps, especially on the minibox-e. its truly a good investment for me, i listen to it everyday . i also have another minibox , called the CL. its very small, smaller then the tomahawk. but with good sound too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks again.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!


----------



## facelvega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not been contacted by Mr. Gehrke._

 

Yeah, he doesn't seem to be on the ball with such things. Too bad, that's all the energy I had to cajole him into it. Maybe next year.


----------



## xanden

Skylab,

 Will you be reviewing iBasso P2 Headphone Amp ?


----------



## moosehead

Great reviews Skylab. Are you going to review the Graham Slee Voyager amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xanden* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 Will you be reviewing iBasso P2 Headphone Amp ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I think so - IBasso had said they would send me one to review, but I have not received it as of yet.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moosehead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great reviews Skylab. Are you going to review the Graham Slee Voyager amp._

 

Thanks! I more than likely will not get to review the Voyager, unless its maker wants to loan me one, but you never know.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good review, Skylab. Keep it up._

 

Thanks! Supposedly the new "Storm STB3" amp is going to be coming my way for review soon.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Storm STB3? Mmmmmm.... Any idea of the pricing?_

 

At the moment, no, I do not know the price.


----------



## Kasp3r

Have you done a review of the Total Bithead at all?


----------



## fault151

you could do with one of Graham Slee's 'voyager' amp to review. I've heard it and i liked it. Would be good to see how it stands against all the others you have reviewed.


----------



## dap_pad

Any chance of you reviewing the Mini^3 or the HeadSix?


----------



## Skylab

You guys are cracking me up! I have commented on ALL of those amps in this thread already, in terms of my not reviewing them, except for the Mini^3, but there again, it would be up to the maker to loan me one to review - as mentioned previously, I won't buy amps just to review them anymore, it 's just too expensive. I either have to get a loaner to review, or I have to WANT to buy one for myself...

 But thanks for all of your trust.


----------



## oicdn

Skylab, you should DEFINITELY get a hold of a Voyager....you'll love it. I did and am left speechless....


----------



## Pete7

Hey Sky- are you going to review the Headroom Micro Amp?
 JUST KIDDING...


----------



## Skylab

Indeed!


----------



## dap_pad

LOL sorry! Just odd that there's no comparison reviews with the HeadSix and the Mini^3, and who better to review amps then Skylab himself


----------



## Remitrom

*LISA III is avialable again!! * & more good news.. 
 Triad Audio has been able to maintain the introductory price!
 So if you have waited to obtain the very
 best, # ONE rated on this thread,

 and thanks skylab for your informative
 eloquent reviews.


----------



## Skylab

Time to give Remitrom "Member of the Trade" status, I think...


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Remitrom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*LISA III is avialable again!! * & more good news.. 
 Triad Audio has been able to maintain the introductory price!
 So if you have waited to obtain the very
 best, # ONE rated on this thread,
 contact triadaudio@gmail.com
 and thanks skylab for your informative
 eloquent reviews.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Time to give Remitrom "Member of the Trade" status, I think... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ya think?


----------



## nickknutson

Back on topic....

 Rob,
 I'm thinking about getting another portable amp. Are there any other amps that you'd suggest that has bass controls? Being well built is also a must.


----------



## Skylab

The Mini-Box E is a nice amp, and has a bass boost. So, of course, does the LisaIII at the super-high end...


----------



## Sieg9198

eagerly waiting for the review of the headamp pico xD


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back on topic....

 Rob,
 I'm thinking about getting another portable amp. Are there any other amps that you'd suggest that has bass controls? Being well built is also a must._

 

The iBasso P2 is a small amp, about the size of a pack of regular-sized cigarettes, that has a 3 position bass boost and a 3 position gain switch. 

 It has rechargable lithium batteries via a 12vdc adapter, and is built using a 4-channel architecture. 

 It has socketed opamps so they can be changed to suit the users sonic preferences, however the buffers cannot be changed, only the L&R channel and the ground channel opamps are socketed whereas the buffers are discrete transistors. 

 IMO, it is a fine sounding little amp.


----------



## DevilofLife

Skylab are you going to do Headamp Pico vs The Predator review and will you also review the DAC of the amps


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DevilofLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab are you going to do Headamp Pico vs The Predator review and will you also review the DAC of the amps_

 

I do have a kind head-fier loaning me a Pico, but not one with the DAC option. So it will be amp only. At this point I don't have a Predator coming, although after the holiday crush I will see if Ray wants to loan me one.


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think so - IBasso had said they would send me one to review, but I have not received it as of yet.



 Thanks! I more than likely will not get to review the Voyager, unless its maker wants to loan me one, but you never know.



 Thanks! Supposedly the new "Storm STB3" amp is going to be coming my way for review soon._

 

OK Shopper, what part of Sky's explination did you not understand about why he has not reviewed the P2 yet


----------



## captainbrendo

2 questions

 why isnt the ibasso d1 in the review?

 how does the bass response compare between the d1, uha-3 and lyrix? I'm gonna get one of them.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK Shopper, what part of Sky's explination did you not understand about why he has not reviewed the P2 yet
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yup. IBasso knows where to reach me if they want me to review it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *captainbrendo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 questions

 why isnt the ibasso d1 in the review?

 how does the bass response compare between the d1, uha-3 and lyrix? I'm gonna get one of them._

 

If you scroll back you will see that IBasso asked me not to put the D1 in this review, since it was designed to me more of a DAC than a portable headphone amp. So I reviewed it in another thread.


----------



## captainbrendo

If you scroll back you will see that IBasso asked me not to put the D1 in this review said:
			
		

> I see... I read the other thread (very helpful btw). Can you make any more comments on the D1's bass? You mentioned it's impactful. In your review of the UHA-3 earlier in this thread you called it a "bass monster" or something like that. I'm trying to decide between these two and the Lyrix. Since my 595s have little bass, the bass quantity is pretty important to me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *captainbrendo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see... I read the other thread (very helpful btw). Can you make any more comments on the D1's bass? You mentioned it's impactful. In your review of the UHA-3 earlier in this thread you called it a "bass monster" or something like that. I'm trying to decide between these two and the Lyrix. Since my 595s have little bass, the bass quantity is pretty important to me._

 

In that case, I'd get the UHA-3 over the D1. I have not heard the Lyrix.


----------



## captainbrendo

thanks for the help skylab. The Lyrix you reviewed; I believe you called it the Headphonia. Unless I'm getting it mixed up with something else I think it is no longer discontinued.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *captainbrendo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 questions

 why isnt the ibasso d1 in the review?

 how does the bass response compare between the d1, uha-3 and lyrix? I'm gonna get one of them._

 

With the AD797 opamps in LR and AD8397 in the buffers, the D1's bass is very strong. The Lyrix bass is very strong even with no changes from stock. The D1 is an audibly better DAC for my home setup, but you'd be happy with either of them (I am) being driven from a laptop.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

PS: The Lyrix is a new design and is not the same as the Headphonia design. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...ml#post3571699


----------



## captainbrendo

wow, thanks HeadphoneAddict, just two more for you....

 How do you like the crossfeed/bassboost on the lyrix

 and

 Where do you get the opamps for the ibasso, I think you mentioned how much they cost in your review, but not where i might get them...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I don't like the Crossfeed on the Lyrix, nor do I like the xfeed on my Xin SuperMacro 3 which is supposed to be as good as the Meier. It takes away from the ambience. I haven't heard the Meier crossfeed yet, and I haven't built my modified Linkwitz crossfeed for PIMETA yet. I also have the panels and circuit board to build a Meier Corda Cross-1 but haven't started yet.

 The bass boost is great for certain headphones, like ER6i, but I don't use it much otherwise. Sometimes for fun I'll turn it on for my HD600 or RS-2, but they don't really need it, as the stock bass is plenty.

 I got opamps from HiFlight and Souperman here on head-fi, and from Newark.com like this one TEXAS INSTRUMENTS | OPA2111KP | Analog & Mixed Signal ICs | Semiconductors & Prototyping | Newark.com


----------



## leeg

Skylab, I have the orig. Larocca PRII with blackgate caps. How much is it to upgrade to MKII? How long did it take? And was it worth the money to you? I haven't surfed here much recently though and am not even sure Larocca is still in business as I now see he's the engineer for Triads Lisa III....maybe he's not supporting the PR anymore? (just in case I decide to sell the PR, any ideas what it maybe worth? It's mint.)


 Thanks
 Leeg


----------



## Skylab

My advice is to enjoy what you have, and NOT to send anything to Larocco Audio if it isn't broken.


----------



## Foe-hammer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not been contacted by Mr. Gehrke. And similarly, as stated above, Headroom has declined my offer to review their amps._

 

I'm sure they did. They don't want to have published their $400 portable amps bested by amps under half their cost.


----------



## Skylab

Allowing a review by ANYONE is risky. If the person doesn't like the item being reviewed, that can be a big problem for it's maker. And by that token, if the item is already selling well, as I expect Headroom's amps all do, why take the risk?


----------



## leeg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My advice is to enjoy what you have, and NOT to send anything to Larocco Audio if it isn't broken._

 


 Thanks Skylab, I was wondering how things are going in Laroccas world. Too bad, it's a nice amp.


----------



## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I have the orig. Larocca Page Ranking with blackgate caps. How much is it to upgrade to MKII? How long did it take? And was it worth the money to you? I haven't surfed here much recently though and am not even sure Larocca is still in business as I now see he's the engineer for Triads Lisa III....maybe he's not supporting the Page Ranking anymore? (just in case I decide to sell the PR, any ideas what it maybe worth? It's mint.)


 Thanks
 Leeg_

 

Leeg,

 When you say "Page Ranking" - do you mean the Pocket Reference ? Normally when we say LaRocco PRII, we refer to the Pocket Reference II. 

 I may be too young here to recall something called "Page Ranking" ?

 F. Lo


----------



## leeg

F. Lo, I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. Major brain glitch of some sort apparantly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I edited and changed it to the PRII. Sorry to confuse anyone.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_F. Lo, I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. Major brain glitch of some sort apparantly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I edited and changed it to the PRII. Sorry to confuse anyone._

 

I think the website changed it, and jude said he knows how to turn off the BBS seeing it as a shortcut when you type P followed by R.


----------



## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_F. Lo, I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that. Major brain glitch of some sort apparantly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I edited and changed it to the PRII. Sorry to confuse anyone._

 

No problem. I think the MKII uses AD744 as the default opamp whereas the original PRII use AD8260. There may be other changes on gain selection but I am not exactly sure on this.

 There was a service offered to use AD744 on the original PRII for US$40 + shipment which basically brings the PRII to the same sonic performance of PRII Mk II. However, I am not sure if this is still available. Most users of PRII agree that the AD744 "modification" provides better sonics (in terms of resolution, and soundstage). In my opinion, it definitely worth the money.

 On the other hand, I do agree with Skylab - there is a risk of long wait or significant delay if you go for any change of your PRII today - as Larry's performance is simply not very reliable.

 Phil Larocco was the designer of the PRII. He does not work for Larry. On the other hand, Larry is the one to provide technical support to his products, not Phil - regardless of whether Phil is still behind the scene or not.

 F. Lo


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *facelvega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Sky, did Robert Gehrke ever get in touch with you about sending sample amps? I emailed him as I mentioned a while ago, and his reply made it sound like he was going to write you, but that's the last I heard of it._

 

Skylab, if you REALLY want to review Robert's Headstage Lyrix Total Pro USB (has the "Total" 4 channel circuitry, finegold caps, socketed opamps, the "Pro" bass boost, crossfeed and gain, with USB DAC) then I could loan you mine with about 280-300 hours on it. 

 I also have Robert's PenguinAmp Caffeine that was the basis of the Lyrix that is fully burned in as well (250+ hours) that I could loan you. However, I gave the PenguinAmp Royal to my brother-in-law and the JSeaber cmoy to his son.

 I've already done some reviews on these, so I didn't think more needed to be done, but your fan-base might want your opinion since my opinion doesn't count: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...-lyrix-262751/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...-lyrix-265223/


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, if you REALLY want to review Robert's Headstage Lyrix Total Pro USB (has the "Total" 4 channel circuitry, finegold caps, socketed opamps, the "Pro" bass boost, crossfeed and gain, with USB DAC) then I could loan you mine with about 280-300 hours on it. 

 I also have Robert's PenguinAmp Caffeine that was the basis of the Lyrix that is fully burned in as well (250+ hours) that I could loan you. However, I gave the PenguinAmp Royal to my brother-in-law and the JSeaber cmoy to his son.

 I've already done some reviews on these, so I didn't think more needed to be done, but your fan-base might want your opinion since my opinion doesn't count: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...-lyrix-262751/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...-lyrix-265223/_

 

Thanks for the offer, Larry, but I DON'T really want to review them at all, and I think your reviews are excellent.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? Because the guy who makes them hasn't proven very friendly to the head-fi authority? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, and please don't make silly conspiracy-theorist posts here. Headroom is VERY "friendly to the head-fi authority", and I haven't reviewed their amps either. Why I don't really want to review the Lyrix has everything to do with what went down before, but that doesn't have anything to do with being "Head-fi friendly". It has to do with honest business practices.


----------



## Skylab

Good points, but none of that increases my enthusiasm for reviewing the Lyrix. I'm not damning Robert in any way, and I'm glad he's on the right path. But that still doesn't make me actually WANT to review his latest amp. I have to actually WANT to review an amp to invest the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And in any case, Larry's review was excellent, and I don't see that it needs more coverage here than that.

 What I *am* looking forward to is reviewing the Head-amp Pico, which thanks to the good graces of a friend of mine I will get the chance to do. I was tempted to actually buy one of these; glad I will at least get the chance to audition one.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I *am* looking forward to is reviewing the Head-amp Pico, which thanks to the good graces of a friend of mine I will get the chance to do. I was tempted to actually buy one of these; glad I will at least get the chance to audition one._

 

Face it Rob, you're going to buy one of those when you're done borrowing/reviewing it


----------



## Pete7

Sky doesn't have to review any of the guy's amps if he doesn't want to- his perogative. I don't think resorting to name-calling is going to persuade him. I could give a rat's ass whether Robert's fully rehabilatated from plagiarizing other's circuit designs or not, I wouldn't buy any of his amps either.


----------



## Pete7

You done trolling in this thread again, Andrea?


----------



## Foe-hammer

Robinhood, how so?

 Nevermind, off topic


----------



## Skylab

And the only point I am trying to make is that I am under no obligation of any kind to review ANYONE's amps - so whether or not I do isn't discriminating against anyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That said, as I have said before, if Robert actually wanted me to review his amps, he knows how to reach me. He hasn't, so I assume he doesn't want me to, and that's just fine. I have no issue with this. Justin from Headamp and Tyll from Headroom have turned down my requests to review their amps. That is also fine with me- they certainly are under no obligation at all to loan me amps to review. And many, many other people have asked me to review their amps, which I am happy to do, although I know not everyone has always been happy with the results. But that is just the way reviewing is.

 I don't have anything more to say on this topic. I need to go work on the review of the Storm STB3


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good points, but none of that increases my enthusiasm for reviewing the Lyrix. I'm not damning Robert in any way, and I'm glad he's on the right path. But that still doesn't make me actually WANT to review his latest amp. I have to actually WANT to review an amp to invest the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And in any case, Larry's review was excellent, and I don't see that it needs more coverage here than that.

 What I *am* looking forward to is reviewing the Head-amp Pico, which thanks to the good graces of a friend of mine I will get the chance to do. I was tempted to actually buy one of these; glad I will at least get the chance to audition one._

 

You really have good friends!


----------



## Jaw007

I'm also waiting for predator,pico reviews!


----------



## leeg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fkclo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem. I think the MKII uses AD744 as the default opamp whereas the original PRII use AD8260. There may be other changes on gain selection but I am not exactly sure on this.

 There was a service offered to use AD744 on the original PRII for US$40 + shipment which basically brings the PRII to the same sonic performance of PRII Mk II. However, I am not sure if this is still available. Most users of PRII agree that the AD744 "modification" provides better sonics (in terms of resolution, and soundstage). In my opinion, it definitely worth the money.

 On the other hand, I do agree with Skylab - there is a risk of long wait or significant delay if you go for any change of your PRII today - as Larry's performance is simply not very reliable.

 Phil Larocco was the designer of the PRII. He does not work for Larry. On the other hand, Larry is the one to provide technical support to his products, not Phil - regardless of whether Phil is still behind the scene or not.

 F. Lo_

 


 Ah! I see. Thanks F. Lo for filling me in on the details!
 leeg


----------



## Skylab

I will be reviewing the Pico this weekend.


----------



## dw6928

who, in their right mind, would have parted with their new Pico for your review?
 quite a compliment to you Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who, in their right mind, would have parted with their new Pico for your review?
 quite a compliment to you Skylab!_

 

I dunno, some incredibly generous person


----------



## dw6928

if you can get me his name, I would love to contact him. maybe he would extend me the same magnanimity.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be reviewing the Pico this weekend._

 

I'm glad someone with honesty & integrity.and unbiased views will be reviewing the Pico this weekend!I ordered one anyway.From what I read ,it must be fantastic.


----------



## dw6928

your post implies that the reviews prior to Skylab's are tainted.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_your post implies that the reviews prior to Skylab's are tainted._

 

I was not implying anything,only the reviewers would know that.
 I just like Skylabs style,and completeness.


----------



## tnmike1

and to add something: I haven't seen any other thread anywhere where so many portable amps have been compared then compiled in one location. 

 Right or wrong, fallible or not, these reviews at least are a fantastic beginning for someone seeking a new amp


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and to add something: I haven't seen any other thread anywhere where so many portable amps have been compared then compiled in one location._

 

There's another one where 30 amps are compared...


----------



## Pete7

Skylab has a photographic aural memory, so cut the man some slack.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tnmike1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and to add something: I haven't seen any other thread anywhere where so many portable amps have been compared then compiled in one location. 

 Right or wrong, fallible or not, these reviews at least are a fantastic beginning for someone seeking a new amp_

 

1. Search, you may be surprised. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 2. You are correct.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's another one where 30 amps are compared..._

 

You are correct!


----------



## facelvega

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shopper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For one, I find Skylab's review OVERLY numerous - therefore improbably self confident and optimistic. I personally would never feel confident enough in the definiteness of my judgments to put 26 amps so neatly one above the other. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would have at least a thousand second thoughts over time and changing headphones and music and moods. Of course Skylab has sold most of them so in no way he ever could......._

 

Ignoring the whole Gehrke issue which I'm afraid I rekindled, let me field this one. Obviously with so many amps reviewed at once, the rankings themselves become a little arbitrary, and Skylab has never claimed they weren't. For me, though, the bigger problem is that with a slightly different source and even more so with different headphones, the ranking would very likely change dramatically, even if we kept the standard of Sky's own ears. The problem is ranking at all, so interesting and such a temptation for the reader, but so dangerous at the same time. No way around it, though, because not having a ranking would be worse, and just having a few tiers would also be misleading.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

If you look at all of the portable amps in my sig, I would say if the best one scores a 100% grade, the worst one is a 94% - But, my best may only be a 94% when compared with better amps that I haven't tried yet. (the JSeaber cmoy bass boost would have been an 88% but I gave it away so it doesn't count).

 My two iBasso's, Headsix and Headstage are sooo close it isn't even funny, the Predator with only 150 hours is catching up quickly, The SuperMacro 3 is only slightly behind, as is the Tomahawk and Caffeine.

 It seems a shame to rank such fine amps that would all make just about anyone happy. And, synergy with different headphones is important. The Headsix has the best synergy with Darth Beyer, The D1 has the best Synergy with my APS v3 re-cabled HD600, while the Headstage has the best Synergy with the APS v3 Grado RS-2 (The Edition 9 and Proline 2500 like everything)

*WooHoo, this was the Magic 1500 posts - Headphoneus Supremus!*


----------



## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *facelvega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IThe problem is ranking at all, so interesting and such a temptation for the reader, but so dangerous at the same time._

 

Couldn't agree more on this. But the demand for "ranking" is always there - since most people have limited funds and time so they would also want to go for the best or 2nd best "ranked by someone" instead of taking the hard journey of exploration themselves.

 Of all the ranking I have seen, I would say none has taken into account all the variables need to come up with a robust objectivity basis. For one to be real serious about ranking, he may have to use the same amp with at least 4 - 5 "representative" headphones, different types of source, different music types and formats, and even different listening environment and the state of mind of the person involved. I must say this will end up almost an impossible task.

 A ranking based on a specific headphone, a specific source, specific 1 or 2 tracks of music, or just one particular interconnect or power supply arrangement can indeed be unknowingly skewed, or biased. 

 The best way, IMO, is to explore the journey ourselves. Honestly, there is absolutely no need to try 10 or 20 amps or headphones in order to find out what one wants. And each step in this exploration can be rewarding and exciting - why not do it ourselves ?

 F. Lo


----------



## moriez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fkclo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The best way, IMO, is to explore the journey ourselves. Honestly, there is absolutely no need to try 10 or 20 amps or headphones in order to find out what one wants. And each step in this exploration can be rewarding and exciting - why not do it ourselves ?_

 

As a new guy to these forums I have come to the conclusion that you just ´have´ to start somewhere _yourself_. Admitted I am inclined to go for what a guy like Skylab says or any other guy who seems to know what he´s talking about. Gladly some peoples posts, check the quote, snap me out of getting lost in this lovely ocean of information and peoples opinions. So indeed I mark fkclo´s words: exploration, rewarding and exciting to do it ourselves. Good stuff!


----------



## captainbrendo

I think skylab has done many of us a great service by providing his input on these amplifiers. Regardless of how good he ranks the amps, his description of each amp is more important imho. Every review or study has issues and error, but for someone like me who just bought his first headphone amp, Skylab's review was a great service.

 Skylab, HAddict, I got the D1 yesterday btw. Sounds great. Thanks for your guys' help.


----------



## Skylab

Thank you


----------



## Luminette

yes, skylab has been very helpful to me as a fresh newbie getting started here

 obviously there are variables left open.. and when you factor in something like "state of mind" - which is relevant - it does end up being impossible to get the perfect review

 that all acknowledged (as rather obvious stuff, really)

 reviews like this are _only_ a good thing. to go off on them being a source of potential misinformation isn't really something to place at the feet of skylab or any other reviewer.. if the reader is too ignorant to remain considerate and aware of these aforementioned variables.. well. that is there issue. _especially_ when there is a list of all other pieces of the test combination - source, songs, headphones, yada yada

 my particular thanks to skylab, again- this article was surely the most helpful of any I have gone through in getting my start of headphone amp knowledge and selection


----------



## dle4e_2005

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be reviewing the Pico this weekend._

 

Looking forward to your review of the Pico.
 How I wish I could time travel to Sunday now.


----------



## kimura

my ass, let me reply first after take look these good stuff


----------



## Gradofan2

That's certainly my experience... the "lowly Shellbrook MaxiMoy" sounds as good as the "vauted Corda Move"... if not better - at least to "less discerning folks." 

 And... the MaxiMoy with a simple Sony Walkman... sounds almost as good as my any of my home systems - which sound "simply awesome!"

 Which pretty well "makes your point" - there's simply very little difference in the sound of any amp. One has to have a pretty severe case of "OCD" to justify paying the "exhorbitant prices" of the "higher priced spread."


----------



## dw6928

I could not agree more. Skylab has performed a noble service to these forums out of his own generosity of time and talent. Whether he ranks your favorite amp 1st or 5th,
 he is providing a benchmark for comparison and we should appreciate that on a daily basis.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I want to clarify what I said about all my amps being very good, and hating to rank them.

 Obviously in a review the description of what is actually heard is most important. Then the outside observer can make his own ranking bassed upon what he is looking for. Skylab does this for us, and when buying a new amp I would tend to look for the qualities that he found desirable as I wanted the same things. So, I selected many of my amps with those criteria in mind, and some I based on similar construction and design without them being heard or reviewed yet.

 The *ranking* is then a _mix_ of:

 (1) *subjective personal preference* (do I like the sound more forward as if I am the musician, or more distant as if I am in the audience watching them play, or I don't think this has enough PRaT) and 

 (2) *semi-objective observations* which the reviewer might hear or not hear based on the acuity of his hearing vs instrumentation. (the violin from this amp doesn't sound like the one I heard at a concert last week but the other one does, I can't hear the rosin of the bow on the string with this one but I can with that one, the string bass doesn't go as deep with this amp but it does with that one).

 (3) *objective observations* (the battery only lasts 5 hours vs 15 hours, this one has a channel imbalance below 9 o'clock but that one doesn't, it puts out 200ma into 32ohm vs 280 for the other one, the switch fell off the second time I used it, the case is not as solid as the other one, etc).

 There are some amps that do a better job of making the music live, or sound real, and I think ranking based on that is still a reasonable way to go. But, that can be more complicated than it seems. My problem with giving some of my amps a rank is when I like one amp that is forward and I also like one amp that isn't as forward; but both are technically doing just as good of a job reproducing the music and making it seem real, _except for where it places the observer in the audience_. But if I rank one of them as first, and the other as second, someone will always be there to argue that they like it the other way around.

 That issue tore me up when I reviewed the Headsix vs upgraded D1 vs Lyrix. I wanted to call a "tie" because they were all technically proficient in reproducing music, but presented the music in slightly different ways. They were all technically good at making the music feel real with a decent source and good headphones, so personal preferences (at the time) and synergy with a particular headphone was the *only* way to separate them for me. If I am using my Grado RS-2 I will say the Headstage Lyrix is the best, but someone else using the Darth Beyers may say the Headsix is the best, and the third person is using the HD600 and claims the D1 is the best, and an argument ensues.

 But, you can't just rank them based on objective measures only, like specs and build, because then it doesn't say anything about how well of a job it does. In summary, a good reviewer like Skylab will state why he likes a particular amp, and gives you the information you need to formulate your own opinion and rank apart from his.


----------



## Packgrog

Well said, HeadphoneAddict.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's certainly my experience... the "lowly Shellbrook MaxiMoy" sounds as good as the "vaunted Corda Move"... if not better - at least to "less discerning folks." 

 And... the MaxiMoy with a simple Sony Walkman... sounds almost as good as any of my home systems - which sound "simply awesome!"

 Which pretty well "makes your point" - there's simply very little difference in the sound of any amp (typically less than a 5 to 10 point spread - base 100). One has to have a pretty severe case of "OCD" to justify paying the "exhorbitant prices" of the "higher priced spread."_

 

 Which means - why "lose any sleep" over which one you happen to have compared to all the others?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well said, HeadphoneAddict._

 

X2 - very well said, Larry.


----------



## melomaniac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dle4e_2005* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking forward to your review of the Pico.
 How I wish I could time travel to Sunday now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

ditto


----------



## slwiser

ditto to Larry.....


----------



## davidw89

ditto again


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

ditto to your ditto,

 or

 I second your ditto and raise you two.


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could not agree more. Skylab has performed a noble service to these forums out of his own generosity of time and talent. Whether he ranks your favorite amp 1st or 5th,
 he is providing a benchmark for comparison and we should appreciate that on a daily basis._

 

I could agree entirely. Skylab is a highly talented reviewer , even if he ranked one of my best liked amps second last


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In summary, a good reviewer like Skylab will state why he likes a particular amp, and gives you the information you need to formulate your own opinion and rank apart from his._

 

Thankfully. I shall go and check all those amps.


----------



## Skylab

I just added the following to my review:

*Update 1-11-08*

*> Headamp Pico*

 Info: 

 I received a loaner of the Headamp Pico from a friend of mine. There was so much interest in this amp, I really wanted to get a chance to listen to one. And I’m not sure of I am glad I did – it’s so good, I now want to buy one! But I need another portable amp like I need a hole in my head.

 I listened to the Pico for several hours straight, by itself, and then directly compared it to the iQube and the Meier Move. The Pico had been broken in prior to my receiving it.

*Build Quality:* A+: What a beauty! Glossy finished metal case, mine in a sort of rust-copper color. By far the prettiest portable headphone amp I have ever seen. Also small and sturdy. TOTALLY quiet operation. Zero turn-on tick. Truly impressive to look at, and it’s the kind of thing that you just WANT when you see it.
*Treble:* A: clean, delicate, smooth, grain-free, extended and transparent. Perhaps just ever so slightly less top end extension than the LISA or the iQube, but its treble is a DELIGHT. It sounds RIGHT. Never even a HINT of aggressiveness.
*Midrange:* A+: All I can say here is WOW. The best midrange of any portable headphone amp I have ever heard. I am listening to it now, and just describing it gives me goose-bumps. THIS is tube-like lushness with no opaqueness at all, Yeah, it’s just warm of neutral, but who cares? I could listen to this midrange for the rest of my life and be very happy with it. NICE. If you care about vocal reproduction, especially female vocals, THIS is the portable headphone amp for you. Listening to Kate Havnevik and Imogen Heap on the Pico was an unbelievable treat.
*Bass:* A: Tuneful, punchy bass. Certainly plenty deep enough. There are amps with slightly more powerful bass, but not by a lot, and the bass quality is excellent. The bass on Tristania’s “World of Glass” was very punchy, but not quite as deep as I get from the iQube.
*Neutrality:* A: Hmmmm…what to say here. I know the Pico isn’t strictly tonally neutral, but it doesn’t sound colored – it’s just slightly warm/lush. But again, not in a way some amps are that make them sound colored – the Pico sounds like its playing music correctly, so it’s hard to fault its presentation.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY deep, and very well defined, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. That said, the Pico has excellent imaging capabilities – ever so slightly better than the iQube or Meier Move (which I was able to directly compare it to).
*Transparency:* A: Again, the magic of the Pico is the fact that it’s slightly lush sounding, but still remains highly transparent. This is no easy trick, and many lesser amps have tried this and failed. The Pico pulls it off, and extremely well. Very impressive to me.

 What a time we are in – SO many world class portable headphone amps, it’s crazy. The Pico is a huge winner, though. As an FYI, I reviewed the AMP ONLY version, so please don’t ask me how the DAC sounds  I confess I have not been very active reading about the launch of this amp, and I am not sure what the exact production situation with the amp is, in terms of its being readily available. I do know that it sounds fantastic, and combined with its world-class aesthetic design, make it an amp worth seeking out!




*Conclusions (1/11/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 31 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE (discontinued)
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## dancekat59

Cool! Thanks for the review of the Pico....
 but now I'm super curious where the Predator will place in your line up!


----------



## Don Juan

I'm confident that Justin knows how to make things sound good.


----------



## musicmaker

Great review as usual. When I spoke to Justin a few days ago regarding the amp section I got the impression that the pico's amp section was essentially the AE-2s, much smaller in size of course. But by the ratings here (pico at #2 vs AE-2 at #8), it looks like the difference in audio quality between the 2 amps is more significant. Interesting !


----------



## melomaniac

many thanks for the added review!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dancekat59* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool! Thanks for the review of the Pico....
 but now I'm super curious where the Predator will place in your line up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

me too...


----------



## Asr

Thanks for the review Skylab, glad to see you enjoy the Pico! And yes, you do need to compare it to the Predator, when is that going to come along? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great review as usual. When I spoke to Justin a few days ago regarding the amp section I got the impression that the pico's amp section was essentially the AE-2s, much smaller in size of course. But by the ratings here (pico at #2 vs AE-2 at #8), it looks like the difference in audio quality between the 2 amps is more significant. Interesting !_

 

Er, just a note of correction that the Pico's amp section can't be "smaller" than the AE-2's. You can't further miniaturize microelectronics, that'd be getting more into nanotechnology or something. It'd be much more correct to say that the Pico's amp section is a tweak of the AE-2's.

 If you meant to say that the Pico's amp section is essentially the AE-2's, well that's inaccurate. The two do use the same op-amp but the Pico is still a tweak of it with some differences in the implementation that are visually obvious: AE-2 board | Pico board

 Also I want to add that the AE-2 unit that Skylab reviewed had low hours on it and not as much as mine for example, that I reviewed in a different thread. I know this as I sent mine to a trusted Head-Fier who listened to and compared mine with the one Skylab reviewed, head to head, and confirmed that they sounded different (with favor going towards mine). If that Head-Fier wants to reveal himself then he can do so. Also, burn-in issues aside, I think Skylab himself implied that just because one amp is at #2 and another is at #8 doesn't mean there's a large difference between the two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (And "differences" in audio don't always have to be up & down either, they can be sideways too.)

 Edit: here are my impressions and review threads for the AE-2:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/thr...r-mini-265716/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/hea...s-over-232177/


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Er, just a note of correction that the Pico's amp section can't be "smaller" than the AE-2's. You can't further miniaturize microelectronics, that'd be getting more into nanotechnology or something. It'd be much more correct to say that the Pico's amp section is a tweak of the AE-2's.

 Also I want to add that the AE-2 unit that Skylab reviewed had low hours on it and not as much as mine for example, that I reviewed in a different thread. I know this as I sent mine to a trusted Head-Fier who listened to and compared mine with the one Skylab reviewed, head to head, and confirmed that they sounded different (with favor going towards mine). If that Head-Fier wants to reveal himself then he can do so. Also, burn-in issues aside, I think Skylab himself implied that just because one amp is at #2 and another is at #8 doesn't mean there's a large difference between the two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Indeed, there is not a huge difference between #2 and #8, and I *liked* the AE-2, as some people seem to have misunderstood. I do think the Pico sounds better than the AE-2 that I had, but it seems that other AE-2's also sounded better than the one I had.


----------



## musicmaker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you meant to say that the Pico's amp section is essentially the AE-2's, well that's inaccurate. _

 

Yes that's what I meant to say. I stand corrected.


----------



## davidw89

So how come these 
 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 beats the Pico when they essentially cost the same?


----------



## Skylab

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.

 And my rankings does not attempt to factor in value - that is for the individual to decide.


----------



## dw6928

I think Skylab has done another superlative review. Even-handed, insightful and informative. We are dealing in minor, minor differences up there in the rarefied air of #2-8, and he is to be commended for his time and opinion; for after all, all review is opinion determined by experience and inquisitiveness. Well done Skylab!


----------



## Podster

Another ernest review Rob, nice work and THX. 

 I think you should borrow Boom's Diablo and rank it with (In Limbo) out beside it :-0

 Got my Headsix in and it's on the fryer, superb work on the build I will say

 Gonna drop for the new E+ next month! What became of your XO? Don't see it in your prof anywhere and it was going to be my next amp venture after the E+.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, fellas.

 I had a Diablo for a little while, but decided not to rank it or review it, since it's so troubled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I sold my XO a few months after I bought it - just too many portable amps to keep


----------



## dw6928

So Rob is your real name! I always wondered what kind of surname Skylab was.


----------



## chouman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how come these 
 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 beats the Pico when they essentially cost the same?_

 

THey don't cost the same. The Pico is $300 without the dac. Skylab didn't review one with a dac.


----------



## FreeBlues

Very interesting!

 Just today I finally got some time to listen to my new Pico, iQube and Lisa. It's been very frustrating, all these amps arrived in the last 3 weeks but my UE11's got plugged up then sent in for service (over Christmas and New Years when UE was closed) and have been down for 4 weeks. Naturally.

 So, I used a 5.5g iMod (lossless), ALO cryo/silver dock, these 3 new amps and my UE11's. I did not use my portable vcap for these sessions. I listen to a variety of blues and blues/rock, classic rock, pop, country, acoustic guitar and some bluegrass. I listened to each amp for about 30 minutes each, same songs, then spent an hour or so switching an amp in or out mid song. My impressions are preliminary and subject to revision as i get more time and the amps burn in more (each has about 100 hours on it right now).

 My rankings mirror Skylab's with the Lisa first, then the iQube then the Pico. It is very, very close, not much separates these 3.

 Starting with the Lisa, this amp just does it all: the bass is tight, punchy and deep with great weight and heft. I don't use any bass addition at all, but i suppose it's nice to know it's there should I want it. Mids are superb and the trebles are perfect. The thing about this amp is how perfectly balanced everything is, no bass hump, no midrange push or recess, exceptional highs. The detail is uncanny, you will hear everything there in just the right proportion. Soundstage width and depth is best in the world. Other than the size and the sensitivity (it can go from way soft to earshattering loud with just the slightest turn of the knob) there is absolutely nothing to fault with this amp. Using this amp I find I can relax and disappear into the music, it has an authority and ease to it that just makes the music come alive.

 By comparison, the iQube highs are not quite as extended, the detail is just a tad less clear and, to me, the bass is fuller but not quite as tight as the Lisa. It has great width but not the depth of the Lisa. Please note, you have to listen really closely, really carefully and almost have a Lisa on hand to hear these differences. It's also about half the size of the Lisa. In many ways this strikes me as a better amp for rock, pop and country music, it's very engaging, full and satisfying. If I give the Lisa a score of 98 out of 100 on sound quality alone, I'd score the iQube a 96.

 The Pico is something of an enigma. Yes, its midrange is perhaps the best of the 3 but I found the bass to be slightly, just a bit, lacking. Not on every song, just some. It is very tight, fast and detailed but i sometimes felt I wanted a bit more weight. The enigma was this wasn't on every song all the time. I don't find this amp "warm" in comparison to the other two, just the opposite. I find it quite neutral, very transparent, pretty revealing. The soundstage on this amp is very deep but pretty narrow. I might prefer this depth over width to the iQube, at least with my music. I don't do much classical or jazz on my portable player, but I'll guess this might be my choice for these styles of music, or at least over the iQube. Has anyone mentioned that the Pico is small? Depending on the song I'd give the Pico a score or 94 to 95.

 In the end I plan on keeping two of these amps. The Lisa is definitely staying, it has the best of both the iQube and the Pico and adds more on top of either, albiet by a small margin. I'm really torn for now about which of the other two to keep, they are both great but different.

 Now, I don't have any other headphones so I imagine your results may differ from mine. At least with the UE11's any of these 3 amps are fantastic!


----------



## Hellenback

Quote:


 Indeed, there is not a huge difference between #2 and #8, and I *liked* the AE-2, as some people seem to have misunderstood. I do think the Pico sounds better than the AE-2 that I had, but it seems that other AE-2's also sounded better than the one I had. 
 

I think this statement cannot be stressed enough for those on a budget. I have a Xenos 1HA-EPC and have had the opportunity to try a couple of much more expensive portables. The price difference did not seem justified for the SQ improvement if money is tight. I am sorry that Alberto stopped developing headphone amps, as I believe the Xenos EPC was (and still is, if it can be found) the best value on the market! 
 If you need a DAC/AMP combo it is a different story.
 Just my opinion of course!


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hellenback* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think this statement cannot be stressed enough for those on a budget. I have a Xenos 1HA-EPC and have had the opportunity to try a couple of much more expensive portables. The price difference did not seem justified for the SQ improvement if money is tight. I am sorry that Alberto stopped developing headphone amps, as I believe the Xenos EPC was (and still is, if it can be found) the best value on the market! 
 If you need a DAC/AMP combo it is a different story.
 Just my opinion of course!_

 

Thanks for telling this! I have a 1HA-EPC which I have improved by changing opamps to LME49720 + LT1364 and it is simply just fantastic (not that it wasn't before - but now it's better). I wish I had a Lisa III to compare. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Op-amp rolling (with or without soldering) rules.


----------



## dw6928

I agree. I have kept my Xenos throughout and just the other day a/b it with the Pico. The differences were salient but more marginal than you would expect. It really is a shame Alberto's marketing didn't allow the amp to flourish.


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. I have kept my Xenos throughout and just the other day a/b it with the Pico. The differences were salient but more marginal than you would expect. It really is a shame Alberto's marketing didn't allow the amp to flourish._

 

You should listen to it with my new opamps. It was a wonderful improvement throughout: transparency, timbre & musicality, soundstage, bass/treble quality & extension. The original OPA2134's were nice and well rounded, but quite simply, in terms of opamps for this amp you could do a lot better.


----------



## dw6928

perhaps I could mail you mine and I would pay you to upgrade the opamps for me?


----------



## Skylab

FreeBlues, thanks for your excellent comments on the Lisa, iQube, and Pico!


----------



## dw6928

what is the availability/cost of the Lisa?


----------



## Skylab

It's available for order for $500 plus shipping, according to Welcome to TriadAudio.net


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's certainly my experience... the "lowly Shellbrook MaxiMoy" sounds as good as the "vauted Corda Move"... if not better - at least to "less discerning folks." 

 And... the MaxiMoy with a simple Sony Walkman... sounds almost as good as my any of my home systems - which sound "simply awesome!"

 Which pretty well "makes your point" - there's simply very little difference in the sound of any amp. One has to have a pretty severe case of "OCD" to justify paying the "exhorbitant prices" of the "higher priced spread."_

 

Let me quote this message. I think it deserves it.

 Besides, I have been a customer of Drew of Shellbrook and I can testify to the goodness of his amps. Both my Mini Head and my The Ascent were excellent. Unfortunately I have both no more.


----------



## Skylab

Of course, "Shellbrook" has an incredibly bad business reputation, with pages and pages of people who have had very bad experiences, including quite a few who lost their money to him...


----------



## GreatDane

Still hard at work I see Skylab. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's quite a list so far...so many amps, so little time.


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So Rob is your real name! I always wondered what kind of surname Skylab was._

 

The Skylabs are members of the Sky clan. They are closely related to the Skywalkers. Rob knows Luke very well!


----------



## Don Juan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course, "Shellbrook" has an incredibly bad business reputation, with pages and pages of people who have had very bad experiences, including quite a few who lost their money to him..._

 

LOL, who would've expected you not to do the devil's advocate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 After all, what would it matter at all now that Shellbrook is no more.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just added the following to my review:

*Update 1-11-08*

*> Headamp Pico*

 Info: 

 I received a loaner of the Headamp Pico from a friend of mine. There was so much interest in this amp, I really wanted to get a chance to listen to one. And I’m not sure of I am glad I did – it’s so good, I now want to buy one! But I need another portable amp like I need a hole in my head.

 I listened to the Pico for several hours straight, by itself, and then directly compared it to the iQube and the Meier Move. The Pico had been broken in prior to my receiving it.

*Build Quality:* A+: What a beauty! Glossy finished metal case, mine in a sort of rust-copper color. By far the prettiest portable headphone amp I have ever seen. Also small and sturdy. TOTALLY quiet operation. Zero turn-on tick. Truly impressive to look at, and it’s the kind of thing that you just WANT when you see it.
*Treble:* A: clean, delicate, smooth, grain-free, extended and transparent. Perhaps just ever so slightly less top end extension than the LISA or the iQube, but its treble is a DELIGHT. It sounds RIGHT. Never even a HINT of aggressiveness.
*Midrange:* A+: All I can say here is WOW. The best midrange of any portable headphone amp I have ever heard. I am listening to it now, and just describing it gives me goose-bumps. THIS is tube-like lushness with no opaqueness at all, Yeah, it’s just warm of neutral, but who cares? I could listen to this midrange for the rest of my life and be very happy with it. NICE. If you care about vocal reproduction, especially female vocals, THIS is the portable headphone amp for you. Listening to Kate Havnevik and Imogen Heap on the Pico was an unbelievable treat.
*Bass:* A: Tuneful, punchy bass. Certainly plenty deep enough. There are amps with slightly more powerful bass, but not by a lot, and the bass quality is excellent. The bass on Tristania’s “World of Glass” was very punchy, but not quite as deep as I get from the iQube.
*Neutrality:* A: Hmmmm…what to say here. I know the Pico isn’t strictly tonally neutral, but it doesn’t sound colored – it’s just slightly warm/lush. But again, not in a way some amps are that make them sound colored – the Pico sounds like its playing music correctly, so it’s hard to fault its presentation.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY deep, and very well defined, but it wasn't the WORLD's widest. That said, the Pico has excellent imaging capabilities – ever so slightly better than the iQube or Meier Move (which I was able to directly compare it to).
*Transparency:* A: Again, the magic of the Pico is the fact that it’s slightly lush sounding, but still remains highly transparent. This is no easy trick, and many lesser amps have tried this and failed. The Pico pulls it off, and extremely well. Very impressive to me.

 What a time we are in – SO many world class portable headphone amps, it’s crazy. The Pico is a huge winner, though. As an FYI, I reviewed the AMP ONLY version, so please don’t ask me how the DAC sounds  I confess I have not been very active reading about the launch of this amp, and I am not sure what the exact production situation with the amp is, in terms of its being readily available. I do know that it sounds fantastic, and combined with its world-class aesthetic design, make it an amp worth seeking out!




*Conclusions (1/11/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 31 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE (discontinued)
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful._

 
 


How about the iBasso P-2,are you going to review this amp?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about the iBasso P-2,are you going to review this amp?_

 

It doesn't seem like it. iBasso had offered to send me a review sample a while back, but I have not received one, and they know how to contact me, so I assume they changed their minds. Since Miguel ranked it VERY high in his large comparative review, it probably doesn't make sense for iBasso to send me one. It's already gotten a stellar review (which it probably deserves, since Miguel has great experience with portable amps), I'm sure they want to rest on their laurels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would if I were them. I might also give it a great review, and I have given high marks to iBasso amps in the past, but why should they risk it?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't seem like it. iBasso had offered to send me a review sample a while back, but I have not received one, and they know how to contact me, so I assume they changed their minds. Since Miguel ranked it VERY high in his large comparative review, it probably doesn't make sense for iBasso to send me one. It's already gotten a stellar review (which it probably deserves, since Miguel has great experience with portable amps), I'm sure they want to rest on their laurels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would if I were them. I might also give it a great review, and I have given high marks to iBasso amps in the past, but why should they risk it?_

 

Thank you.Mabe they will send you a D-2 for review,that would be even better.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't seem like it. iBasso had offered to send me a review sample a while back, but I have not received one, and they know how to contact me, so I assume they changed their minds. Since Miguel ranked it VERY high in his large comparative review, it probably doesn't make sense for iBasso to send me one. It's already gotten a stellar review (which it probably deserves, since Miguel has great experience with portable amps), I'm sure they want to rest on their laurels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would if I were them. I might also give it a great review, and I have given high marks to iBasso amps in the past, but why should they risk it?_

 

Send me a PM if you would like for me to send you the P2 (stock) and an stock Voyager by Graham Slee. In the Graham's I have both a high gain and a low gain and I would most likely send the high gain.

 Note: For my style of music (Jazz) I do not care for the contour switch in the Voyager.


----------



## Drag0n

And the Pico's competition...the RSA Predator.......Do you know if youll be reviewing that soon or not?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Send me a PM if you would like for me to send you the P2 (stock) and an stock Voyager by Graham Slee. In the Graham's I have both a high gain and a low gain and I would most likely send the high gain.

 Note: For my style of music (Jazz) I do not care for the contour switch in the Voyager._

 

Thanks Miguel, when I clear the current review backlog, I might just do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And the Pico's competition...the RSA Predator.......Do you know if youll be reviewing that soon or not?_

 

After I get done with what I have now on my plate, I will see if Ray will loan me one.

 Right now I have a current-gen Xin Reference, Xin Super-Mini, and the Storm STB3 that I am working on reviews of.


----------



## fatjab

Thank you for all these informations. i am considering buying a portable amp (AAC 128+nano 3G+ER4P). There is one information though I can not find any clear answer to (I never used an amp): does using an amp like the RSA TH increases the volume? I usually listen to my ipod with the volume between 25 to 50% maximum. Will I be able to listen to music at the same volume? Will I have to push the ipod higher? Or will I have to low it down to 5%? Do I have to use the ER24 cable or buy a low gain/high gain portable amp? Thank you for your answer.


----------



## Skylab

If you get a portable amp, you use the line out of the iPod, not the headphone out. As such, the volume setting on the iPod doesn't matter.


----------



## MatthewK

Hey, I just wanted to simply say _*thank you*_ Skylab for doing all of those reviews. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are very helpful.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MatthewK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I just wanted to simply say *thank you* Skylab for doing all of those reviews. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They are very helpful._

 

Thank you for the kind words! It is comments like these that make me enjoy making the effort to continue to add to this review


----------



## moriez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for the kind words! It is comments like these that make me enjoy making the effort to continue to add to this review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Anyone for a SkyLab appreciaton thread?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On a serious note, well done SkyLab. You deserve it. It is a good read and an interesting overview of whats out there.


----------



## Gradofan2

Absolutely... Skylab's contribution is substantial... as well as those of Mrarroyo, and his partner... with all of their comparative reviews of these amps. 

 We can only hope that the similar thread comparing home amps can be "fleshed out" with more comparative reviews - but, that is most definitely a daunting task.


----------



## moonsurf

Skylab,

 I just want to say a BIG "THANK YOU"!! Ever since, I joined this community, I enjoyed your reviews more than any body else's. Of course, when it comes to music, everything is so personal and subjective. However, I happen to develop a tendency to rely on your review more than any body else's. Not only your reviews are highly detailed and accurate and explanatory as it can be, but you clarify your own subjective in likings and dis-likings. Simply, you are GREAT!! 

 Oh, by the way, I am also sincerely looking forward to hear your reviews on Xin's products, especially the Reference. Now days, I am actually being more interest in home amps than portable ones, so please know there is another fellow out here who is desperately looking forward for your another home amp reviews. Haha, sorry to give you too much burdens~~


----------



## Skylab

Thanks again for all the nice comments guys, I really do appreciate it a lot. It's nice to know that someone is actually reading the stuff I write 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am working on the Xin reviews today. They will be up by mid-week.


----------



## dallan

Another for Skylab. Been following your reviews and ended up with a RSA Hornet in July (SR71 were not available at that time) and then a Lisa III at the end of November based on reviews and i love them both, thanks for the reviews from me too, i rarely write but I've been fololowing thread since May or June. I too am a fellow listener to Jerry and the boys as well as a Jam head. So a big thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dallan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too am a fellow listener to Jerry and the boys as well as a Jam head._

 

Ah, another head-fier with excellent taste in music


----------



## Skylab

Miguel's portable amp review is outstanding, and it would be FAR better for the new head-fier looking at a portable amp purchase to read his, mine, and OICDN (Nate's) excellent comparative reviews when trying to gather information. And then it's a good idea to search out the myriad of individual reviews that exist on most of these amps. This will give the new potential buyer the most through information that head-fi has to offer.


----------



## dw6928

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks again for all the nice comments guys, I really do appreciate it a lot. It's nice to know that someone is actually reading the stuff I write 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am working on the Xin reviews today. They will be up by mid-week._

 

I wasn't aware that you reviewed portable amps. Is this a new feature of the forums? How does one submit a new product for review? Would you consider expanding the review venue to include small desktops like the Canamp Heed?
 Thank you Mr.Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't aware that you reviewed portable amps. Is this a new feature of the forums? How does one submit a new product for review? Would you consider expanding the review venue to include small desktops like the Canamp Heed?
 Thank you Mr.Skylab._

 

Ha ha, very funny, Mr. DW


----------



## dw6928

I thought a little pre-surgical levity was in order as we bask in our Giants-fueled
 endorphins


----------



## jpnz

Skylab, do you think Pico will also be able to drive 600ohm Beyers?

 Thank you!


----------



## Skylab

I'm sorry that I didn't try that. the 600 ohm Beyers are a lot to ask of a portable amp.


----------



## Capunk

I just notice Pico is considered no.3 below iQube... 
 is that amp really that good? how close to Lisa III?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry that I didn't try that. the 600 ohm Beyers are a lot to ask of a portable amp._

 

Do you believe 300 ohm senn's. HD 650 would be easily driven by the pico?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Capunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just notice Pico is considered no.3 below iQube... 
 is that amp really that good? how close to Lisa III?_

 

The Pico is very, very good indeed. It's a slightly warmer, slightly less extended sound than the Lisa.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you believe 300 ohm senn's. HD 650 would be easily driven by the pico?_

 

Yes, it had no problem driving my 250 ohm headphones.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico is very, very good indeed. It's a slightly warmer, slightly less extended sound than the Lisa.



 Yes, it had no problem driving my 250 ohm headphones._

 

 Thank you for the information.I just needed some conformation from someone
 as aknowledgeable as you.Keep up the fun work.


----------



## Skylab

I just updated the thread with the following:

*Update 1-22-08*

*> Xin Reference*

 Info: Xin's Cool Talk - New XIN Reference amp

 I received a loaner of the Xin Reference from another generous head-fier. There has been so much talk about this amp, I really wanted to get a chance to listen to one. I have owned Xin amps in the past, and have always been impressed.

 I listened to the Reference for several hours straight, by itself, and then directly compared it to the iQube and the Meier Move. The Reference had been broken in prior to my receiving it.

*Build Quality:* A: Incredibly solid build quality, with absolutely no nod given to making it pretty. Build like a tank, and looks like one too. I have always wished the Xin knobs were shorter. No turn on thump though, and zero hiss even at full volume. Nice.
*Treble:* A: smooth, clean, unfatiguing treble, with good detail and extension. Lacks the last little bit of extension and air that the iQube has. Treble performance on par with the Meier Move. Treble was nicely neutral – the difference in the treble presentation of different headphones was easily apparent.
*Midrange:* A-: Maybe this just a letdown from the outstanding midrange of the Pico, but I felt the Reference’s mids were a little cloudy or opaque. There was a little bit of liquidity missing. This is only in relationship to the very best, but I feel the midrange performance of the Meier Move and the iQube were slightly, but noticeably better than that of the Reference. It’s enough of a coloration that it was apparent with different headphones. This is NOT the high-end amp to buy for lovers of solo piano, jazz quartets, or female vocals.
*Bass:* A+: Tuneful, punchy bass. Excellent depth, and nice and tight. No bloat. Really nothing to quibble with here. Listening to “Living Together” by Circa Survive, the bass drum impact was palpable. Very nice. Maybe the amps strongsuit?
*Neutrality:* A: Generally neutral, except for the slight coloration in the midrange. But otherwise very neutral. 
*Soundstaging:* A+: Also a strong suit. The soundstage is deep, wide, and well-defined. There is no “Xinfeed” here, but the amp manages to push the soundstage outside the head in a way the majority of amps do not manage. Excellent.
*Transparency:* A-: I felt the Xin was behind the best headphone amps in terms of transparency due to the very slight opaque quality of the mids. This is something that someone buying the amp with nothing to compare it to would likely not notice, but compared to the Moce and iQube, it’s there, and IMO it detracts slightly from the otherwise excellent sound. I wanted female vocals to have a little more sense of presence and reality than they did.

 So, what to make of the Reference? The mere word “Reference”, and the price of the amp, put it up against string competition. For me, it’s just not impressive enough for the $279 asking price to recommend strongly. I’m sure this will forever vilify me with the Xin-heads, but nonetheless, this is my opinion. The Reference is a very fine amp, to be sure, but I would spend $299 on the amp-only Headamp Pico if it were my money.




*Conclusions (1/22/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 32 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio MOVE (discontinued)
 3. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Xin Reference
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## fkclo

Hi Skylab, 

 This is a big surprise to me.

 I have the LISA, PRII, iQube and Pico, and concur they are amongst the best in the list, and thought we have similar taste / listening preference - until I read your views on the Reference.

 I have a Reference (latest 22,000 uf cap, 700 hours burn-in), and comparing to the Pico - the Reference is almost better is all aspects - except the apparent energy level that is characterised by the AD8397 opamp used in the Pico. I listened to the Pico for a few hours and after the initial wow factor faded, the Reference in comparison give me lasting impression. The Pico reminds of how the Xin Supermini III sounds when Xin first used AD8397 in his mini creations. 

 I still like the Pico for its USB DAC integration. But for the amp section, Xin Reference is definitely on top for my ears.

 FWIW, I am using a Vintage RS-1, a pair of HP2 and a RAL recabled SE HD650 on these amps recently.

 Just a different opinion.

 F. Lo


----------



## Skylab

I know there are people who regard the Xin very highly. Different ears, headphones, and tastes, I'm sure. All I can write is what I hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 YMMV!


----------



## Podster

I like the fact one can get on the list and get a Pico 10 X faster than the Xin of course turn around may be way different for those who live relatively close to Xin.

 I may as well order one of these references and in a couple years (I am including my 700 + burn in hours here) should be able to post my thoughts on the sound of Xin 

 With some of the write ups I've seen on Xin amps here they could coner the small amp market if they had production! 

 Appreciate all your hard work and efforts Sky, your reviews helped greatly in my first three amps


----------



## slwiser

I think I will continue steadfast with my Reference. Thanks for your review Skylab even if you did come to the wrong conclusions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It happens to the best of us sometimes.


----------



## mark_h

have you reviewed the headsix?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will continue steadfast with my Reference. Thanks for you review Skylab even if you did come to the wrong conclusions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I happens to the best of us sometimes._

 






 As far as I am concerned I am GLAD that people hear things differently. Miguel rates the Xin Reference the best portable amp he has heard, and he has heard more portable amps than I have, so there are plenty of people who see, or rather hear, the situation differently than I do.


----------



## Looknbuy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 As far as I am concerned I am GLAD that people hear things differently. Miguel rates the Xin Reference the best portable amp he has heard, and he has heard more portable amps than I have, so there are plenty of people who see, or rather hear, the situation differently than I do._

 

These words were a relief. Thanks, Skylab. Now I can live peacefully with my (very) different sentiments.


----------



## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Looknbuy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These words were a relief. Thanks, Skylab. Now I can live peacefully with my (very) different sentiments. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Andrea....

*http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/at...t-life-288523/*


----------



## achristilaw

To be fair. It is hard to rate among the very best. When the amp in question is made of unubtainium. Of the portable/transportable amps I own. The Xin Ref is in the top three. Bettered by the Lisa and Diablo. The AE-2 can hold it's head up. But the Hornet is sounding a bit dated. What a difference a year makes.


----------



## slwiser

Honestly I probably would have a hard time discerning which I like better among the top three or four that I would put up there. It is a hard business attempting to place these. At least Skylab puts his opinions up front and we all can either like them or not.


----------



## jamato8

I have enjoyed many amps and continue to enjoy some of them. I can understand a difference in hearing but having heard many amps and having been in high end audio for years and enjoying live music very much to rate the Reference, not because I know Xin etc, etc. , but because of what and only what I hear, down the list, if you are going by sound quality, is silly. I like to be neutral as much as possible but the mids and transparency are one thing I find as one of the most excellent qualities of the Reference. This is with IEM's or large headphones and it helps my puny PortaPros to sound extremely good for what they are. I really can find little if any fault with the Reference. I love music and to me, the Reference IS music.


----------



## Jaw007

I'm still going to wait on my reference to add to the collection.
 Then stop buying,and start listening more.


----------



## achristilaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have enjoyed many amps and continue to enjoy some of them. I can understand a difference in hearing but having heard many amps and having been in high end audio for years and enjoying live music very much to rate the Reference, not because I know Xin etc, etc. , but because of what and only what I hear, down the list, if you are going by sound quality, is silly. I like to be neutral as much as possible but the mids and transparency are one thing I find as one of the most excellent qualities of the Reference. This is with IEM's or large headphones and it helps my puny PortaPros to sound extremely good for what they are. I really can find little if any fault with the Reference. I love music and to me, the Reference IS music._

 

Well said my friend. But we don't live in an ideal society. And politicing abounds. The Xin Ref. On a Performance/Price ratio. In my humble opinion. Can't be touched. It's sound is "Music to my ears". And in a class by itself. It's balance and note making are unique. And world class. And that is tarnished with other troubles. Which are well documented and I won't name. Can't really seperate one from the other. When the majority of others don't share that handicap. Can you understand that? As part of the total equation?


----------



## Pete7

So what's the big deal about Skylab not feeling as passionately about the Xin Reference as some of you do? He's one person! Get over it! Gee Skylab, how about a re-review, maybe you've got a wax build-up in one ear that might account for that mid-range suckout.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *achristilaw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well said my friend. But we don't live in an ideal society. And politicing abounds. The Xin Ref. On a Performance/Price ratio. In my humble opinion. Can't be touched. It's sound is "Music to my ears". And in a class by itself. It's balance and note making are unique. And world class. And that is tarnished with other troubles. Which are well documented and I won't name. Can't really seperate one from the other. When the majority of others don't share that handicap. Can you understand that? As part of the total equation?_

 

Yes. . . :^)

 but I still can not equate this into the absolute sound equation. As a side note yes, as to sound, no.


----------



## oicdn

Sweet, I take it that means the Reference is on it's way to me??? Can't wait to see how my impressions sound compared to yours. I'm stoked on finally getting to hear an XIN offering...


----------



## achristilaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. . . :^)

 but I still can not equate this into the absolute sound equation. As a side note yes, as to sound, no._

 

That's fair enough my friend.


----------



## blackcatz

Hey anyone tried the Ibasso P2 yet? I heard its a very goood one, can you review it the next round? Thanks!!


----------



## fkclo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly I probably would have a hard time discerning which I like better among the top three or four that I would put up there. It is a hard business attempting to place these. At least Skylab puts his opinions up front and we all can either like them or not._

 

Can't agree more.

 While we may hear things differently, Skylab still have our highest regards and I fully respect his views. I couldn't do even half of what he did.

 F. Lo


----------



## Skylab

Thanks, guys. I took a little more time than I had planned with the Xin, because I knew my impressions might ruffle a few feathers. And the funny thing is, I did still rate the amp very highly - it's one of the best portable amps out there in my opinion - I just think there are a very few that are a little better in some regards, whereas some people feel there are none better. That is all good - different strokes.

 And yes, Nate, the Xin is on it's way to you, and I will be eager for your impressions!


----------



## Gradofan2

Not only "different strokes" - everyone has different preferences... but also... they're just isn't a lot of difference in the sound any of those top amps. A user has to be pretty discerning... and compulsive... for the small variations in their sound to make that much difference to them. 

 So... why does anyone... really care that much... which one is considered "the absolute best"... when that will no doubt vary from user to user... and there isn't that much difference anyway?

 There are many more important issues in the World - like... are the Buckeyes really that bad - "yikes"?! Or... are the Giants really that good... or, how's Brady's foot? Or... even... are the Pats "the greatest of all time?" Now those are matters of much greater import! 

 "Can't we all just get along?"


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, guys. I took a little more time than I had planned with the Xin, because I knew my impressions might ruffle a few feathers. And the funny thing is, I did still rate the amp very highly - it's one of the best portable amps out there in my opinion - I just think there are a very few that are a little better in some regards, whereas some people feel there are none better. That is all good - different strokes.

 And yes, Nate, the Xin is on it's way to you, and I will be eager for your impressions!_

 

Sweet.

 Don't feel bad man, I hated the way the TTVJ Millet sounded when I heard it. Also, the SR71 wasn't anything to wow at for me either...different strokes for sure.


----------



## tk3

Thanks for the Reference review Skylab, was looking forward to your impressions.
 As others have said, different views/different ears, seems like the Xin amps' sound just isn't your thing (looking at the older Micro review also).

 I like how the "top rated" amps in your reviews usually have an *A+* in some area, it's interesting to see which areas you think a particular amp shines.
 Even though the higher ranked amps are all great, what sets the Reference apart to me (not that I even have mine yet) is its huge battery life.

 That factor alone boosts it up a few notches compared to other amps (barring Tomahawk), it's just so much easier not to have to recharge or replace the batteries every xx hours on a portable unit, got enough of those already (DAP, cell phone, handheld consoles, etc).
 Now if only the amp wasn't so hard to get.


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fkclo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't agree more.

 While we may hear things differently, Skylab still have our highest regards and I fully respect his views. I couldn't do even half of what he did.

 F. Lo_

 

right on! Not only is the amount of effort that has been put into this review outstanding, but it is also very readable, and understandable. I like the way each amp is broken down and evaluated.

 And I agree with other comments, that most of these amps are outstanding. Once you move past a certain point, I think it depends mostly on your ears, and the headphones you are using them with.


----------



## TomH

Many thanks for the incredible wealth of information, quality and consistency of approach in these reviews, Skylab. It helps so much to have a reference spectrum, from which to start and to which to compare one's own impressions.

 Big Head-Fi smiley...


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TomH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks for the incredible wealth of information, quality and consistency of approach in these reviews, Skylab. It helps so much to have a reference spectrum, from which to start and to which to compare one's own impressions.

 Big Head-Fi smiley..._

 

X2


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys!


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Your welcome keep up the good work!


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_right on! Not only is the amount of effort that has been put into this review outstanding, but it is also very readable, and understandable. I like the way each amp is broken down and evaluated.

 And I agree with other comments, that most of these amps are outstanding. Once you move past a certain point, I think it depends mostly on your ears, and the headphones you are using them with._

 

Well said rythem, Sky takes it down to laymans terms and the use of the a+/- system can tell an individual a lot especially if they have a couple amps to compare this way.

 As far as the different strokes for different folks just take 1 of the amps Sky has reviewed and test that same amp with 7 or 8 different phones and I'd be willin to bet a pile of potato chips that same amp will sound 5 different ways on the various phones so you see an amp rated at seven might sound like a two with phones that synergize with it better than the phones it was tested at seven with! So subjective this hobby but the service guys like Rob, Nate and Miguel add to Head-Fi is priceless and I apologize as I know I've read other good reviewers out here I'm just not up on enough of your post


----------



## jhendrickson

Hey Skylab, 

 I wanted to take the time to properly thank you for putting these reviews together and for adding new amps as time goes on. For someone who has never owned a headphone amp before, I found this to be an excellent resource to get started. I imagine it would also come in handy for those who are already familiar with portable amps as well.

 I thank you for your hard work, however, my wife probably won't!


----------



## 521ztz

Good job man !
 How about adding the review of Predator ?
 Cheers!


----------



## Podster

Howdy Sky, thought this would be as good as any thread your in to ask you if the Yo-Tank for the 30GB classic has a large enough hole in the base for most LOD's since the Apple iPod dock cables appear to have a thinner dock connector than my Bling and Quables? 

 I'm expecting a reply soon from Yo-Tank and wanted to be sure what I'm ordering will work without modifications! 

 THX


----------



## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Podster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Howdy Sky, thought this would be as good as any thread your in to ask you if the Yo-Tank for the 30GB classic has a large enough hole in the base for most LOD's since the Apple iPod dock cables appear to have a thinner dock connector than my Bling and Quables? 

 I'm expecting a reply soon from Yo-Tank and wanted to be sure what I'm ordering will work without modifications! 

 THX_

 

Hi Podster,
 Indeed Qables use a bigger connector then the Apple ones.
 Should they not fit on the YoTank ( I am interested in their answer) then I can inform you that for the Silvercab-pro cables I provide a custom build using the Apple slim line connectors.

 You can email me directly should you want further inquiry.

 Rgds Hans.


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Podster,
 Indeed Qables use a bigger connector then the Apple ones.
 Should they not fit on the YoTank ( I am interested in their answer) then I can inform you that for the Silvercab-pro cables I provide a custom build using the Apple slim line connectors.

 You can email me directly should you want further inquiry.

 Rgds Hans._

 

Thank you for the reply Hans, I was just making sure I was not going to have to break out my drimmle just to accomodate these LOD cables on the Yo-Tank cases. I'm 100% sure my drimmle work would not be as pretty as the machined cuts The Tank provides
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL 

 I would like to also commend you on the iQube, nice looking amp


----------



## Skylab

All the LOD's I have fit into the YoTank case (like the Turbo and the ALO).


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All the LOD's I have fit into the YoTank case (like the Turbo and the ALO)._

 

Many thanks, while the Tank is running this closeout I need to pick up that black 30GB for my Upod and Nano 2nd gen


----------



## vvs_75

Nice done! Thanks Skylab!
 I Like to read reviews specially when they quite different from what most of the folks expected.

 Not long time ago was an amp suggesting thread and I’ve read that few headfiers mentioned that they will take AMB mini^3 over RSA SR71 and RSA Hornet “M”. 

 I like my mini^ 3 and I know that it’s best bang for the buck performer, specially if you built and not bought one, but was very surprise to read it.

 Anyway so since you rated Xin Reference lover than Hornet and SR-71, that puts the mini^3 over Xin reference automatically.


----------



## kostalex

Skylab, your review is really great!

 One minor point: you have not placed the group photo of the last amps reviewed. You did this before and I found it useful.

 I made sizeasy comparison Corda 2Move vs Corda XXS vs Headamp Pico.

 I wonder: is Pico really so small?






 Skylab, it would be very nice if you place group photos at least for the winners (Lisa, Move, iQube...).


----------



## Skylab

True, I will take a few shots when I can. Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## spookygonk

Thanks for all the reviews Skylab, I've only been a member here for a short while, but all this information is very useful in working out what portable amp will go with my (as yet) limited collection of headphones. Having an extremely limited knowledge of the types of headphone amps that are out there (at different price points), this is going a long way to help me spend money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What with you and Penchum waxing lyrical with all the Little Dot amps I can see I should clear a space on my computer desk and buy something shortly...


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!


----------



## Luminette

it would be interesting to hear your impressions on the graham slee voyager, and perhaps the predator


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luminette* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it would be interesting to hear your impressions on the graham slee voyager, and perhaps the predator_

 

Skylab: If you ever have the occasion to review the Predator, please make sure that the unit has at least 400-500 hrs on it as others are reporting continuous change beyond 700 hrs.


----------



## Skylab

I will be getting a loaner at the end of this month, one that has over 800 hours on it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So, when you travel to London wext week, what is going to be your choice of portable equipment to take with you (source, amp, phones, cable)?


----------



## Skylab

160GB iPod Classic>ALO Cotton LOD>Qables iQube>AT ANC7/ESW9


----------



## slwiser

Skylab:

 Maybe the new HFI-780 if you get it in time?

 I posted some pictures of these in the other thread.


----------



## Skylab

Yes indeed, I will bring the HFI-780 instead of the ESW9 if I get them in time (which looks likely).


----------



## nickknutson

Hey Rob,
 How did you get your custom title? I haven't been around very much lately, did I miss something?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Rob,
 How did you get your custom title? I haven't been around very much lately, did I miss something?_

 

Actually, I am not sure. At one point I noticed I had it. It was not my doing


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I am not sure. At one point I noticed I had it. It was not my doing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've noticed quite a few lately...I wish I had a cool one like that


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

As long as it doesn't say - Jackassarus Irritaticus - I'd be happy.

 What would be the right name for "Too Much Stuff"

 Equipmentarum Prolifcus?
 Headphoneum Toomuchicus?


----------



## ammatos

Skylab,

 First I have to say that I am EXTREMELY jealous, this is the type of project which I'd love to take on. Unfortunately (boo-hoo), I don't have the budget to own so many 'toys' - to get things started.

 Second, I say CONGRATULATION of a wonderful job done very well. I'm sure that this "missive" will be referred to regularly. If it were a book, it would be ragged by now.

 Third, THANXS for providing so much information on so many choices.

 Enough with the pats on the back, OK ' 

Now for a Question: In another thread - *All New Microshar uAMP107B Version Is Out For Very Low Cost !!!! *The Forum's host Dara, stated that you had done a review of the '107, and provided a link - which did not lead to your review. *So,* Did you do an independent review of the '107, or was she referring to a review within the "32" missive????

 much thanXs,

 angel


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words. My only review of the MicroShar is the one right here in this thread. If there is a very new version, then I have not reviewed that one, although the one I did review was a new design at that time.


----------



## Podster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I am not sure. At one point I noticed I had it. It was not my doing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Those wascly hackers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Enjoy your trip, nice selection for your travel rig

 By the way thanks again for the Yo_tank referrel, Chris is a great guy and I absolutely love his product! Got the 30GB Black for my UPod and a brushed for my 2nd gen Nano


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as it doesn't say - Jackassarus Irritaticus - I'd be happy._

 

lol


----------



## nickknutson

How many amps did this thread start with? Like 9? It seems like forever ago.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How many amps did this thread start with? Like 9? It seems like forever ago._

 

Yep - it was 9 originally. That was a long time ago.

 I have the following amps either in house or on their way to me, to be reviewed (please no posts asking me to rush or when they will be done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ):

 > Storm B-3
 > RSA Predator (with over 500 hours on it)
 > Meier XXS and 2Move

 So keep your eyes peeled


----------



## Luminette

looking forward to the new reviews!


----------



## Cosmic Fool

Skylab, would you be so kind to test if the 2Move has enough juice for your DT 990? I have one (250 Ohm) and I would really like to know this for sure.


----------



## Skylab

Certainly.


----------



## Cosmic Fool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Certainly._

 

Thanks!


----------



## diab0lik

unbelievable post skylab. do you think you will review the new little dot mk I amp?


----------



## Skylab

At the moment I have to plans to review the LD Mk I, although I would like to.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the moment I have to plans to review the WED, FEB 20, 2008, although I would like to._

 

Huh?

 Is that an audio review of that date, Skylab?

 BTW, I might be able to help because I'm already in THURS, FEB 21, 2008.


----------



## Skylab

LOL! That's what I get for posting from my Blackberry


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! That's what I get for posting from my Blackberry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What model is it? Are you planning on doing a review of it? LOL! I rock the BB 7250...kickin' it old skool!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep - it was 9 originally. That was a long time ago.

 I have the following amps either in house or on their way to me, to be reviewed (please no posts asking me to rush or when they will be done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ):

 > Storm B-3
 > RSA Predator (with over 500 hours on it)
 > Meier XXS and 2Move

 So keep your eyes peeled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Unless you have 2 Predators on the way, the one coming from me has 1120 hours on it. Do you want a copy of the log? Too bad, here it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Predator

 1/11/08 10pm 211 hours
 1/12
 1/13
 1/14
 1/15/08 10pm 305 hours
 1/16/08 10PM 329 hours
 1/17/08 10AM 341 hours
 1/18/08 10PM 377 hours
 1/19/08 10PM 401 hours
 1/20/08 10AM 413 hours
 1/20/08 10PM 425 hours
 1/21/08 4PM 443 hours
 1/22/08 12n 463 hours
 1/22/08 10pm 473 hours
 1/23/08 10AM 485 hours
 1/23/08 10PM 497 hours
 1/24/08 10pm 521 hours
 1/26/08 10PM 569 hours
 1/27/08 9PM 591 hours
 1/28/08 12mn 618 hours
 1/30/08 12mn 666 hours
 1/31/08 11am 677 hours
 2/1/08 11pm 713 hours - sr-001 275 hours 
 2/2/08 11am 725 hours
 2/2/08 11pm 737 hours - sr-001 299 hours
 2/3/08 11pm 761 hours - sr-001 323
 2/4/08 11am 773 hours - sr-001 335 hours
 2/4/08 11pm 785 hours - sr-001 347 hours
 2/5/08 9pm 807 hours - sr-001 369 hours
 2/6/08 12n 822 hours
 2/7/08 11pm 857 hours
 2/8/08 11pm 881 hours
 2/9/08 11pm 905 hours - sr-001 467 hours - sr-003 30 hours
 2/10/08 11pm 929 hours - sr-001 491 hours - sr-003 54 hours
 2/11/08 11am 941 hours - sr-001 503 hours - sr-003 66 hours
 2/11/08 11pm 952 hours - sr-001 515 hours - sr-003 78 hours
 2/12/08 11am 964 hours - sr-001 527 DONE - sr-003 90 hours
 2/12/08 11pm 976 hours -------------------- sr-003 102 
 2/13/08 11am 988 hours -------------------- sr-003 114 
 2/14/08 11am 1012 hours ------------------- sr-003 138 DONE
 2/14/08 6pm 1019 hours ----- HFI780 0 hours
 2/15/08 6pm 1043 hours ----- HFI780 24 hours
 2/15/08 11pm 1048 hours ----- HFI780 29 hours
 2/17/08 11pm 1096 hours ----- HFI780 75 hours
 2/18/08 11am 1120 hours DONE- HFI780 87 hours
 2/18/08 11pm ---------------- HFI780 99 hours
 2/19/08 11pm ----------------- HFI780 123 hours
 2/20/08 9pm ----------------- HFI780 145 hours


----------



## webbie64

OMG, Headphoneaddict...and I thought I was analytical by nature.

 Always wondered what Yoda did all those years on that planet all alone...Headphone analysis!


----------



## nickknutson

^ OMG! That is too funny.


----------



## antonyfirst

Not even Woody Allen did such an expensive analysis


----------



## Skylab

Wow Larry, that is HAAAAARRRRRD COOOOORRRREEEE! Nicely done


----------



## dw6928

As anally retentive as Mr. Allen is, you may be mistaken.


----------



## GUNS

Sorry if its been asked sky but any plans to review the Graham Slee Voyager?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GUNS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if its been asked sky but any plans to review the Graham Slee Voyager?_

 

At the moment, no.


----------



## oicdn

^ You're missing out!!!!


----------



## Skylab

I understand it's a nice amp, but I've no plans to buy one. Too many to review right now anyway.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some people prefer the iBasso P2 to it, even with headphones like the HD650. Skylab, please review the P2!_

 

I believe jamato8 has already reviewed the P2.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, there are lots of reviews of the iBasso P2 already.


----------



## Skylab

I have added the following update to my review:


*UPDATE: 2/24/08*

 Some pics to go along with this update:








*> Meier Audio 2MOVE *

 Info: Kein Titel

 I got a 2Move from Jan on loan to review, but with the advice that I focus mostly on the DAC section, as the amp section was the same as the Move I already own, and had already reviewed. I went ahead and compared the 2Move and the Move, and was unable to tell any difference at all in their amp sections. As such, I am not going to “review” its sound – just look up at the review of the Move. Sonically, they are identical when you use the analog inputs. I will post thoughts on its DAC section elsewhere. The short stroke is that the 2Move’s DAC is much better than the Move’s and makes the amp an even bigger bargain.

 A couple of other comments, however. Jan changed mini-jacks from the original Move. Apparently the original Move had some problems with the jacks. Well, just to be a pain, I never had any issue with the jacks on the original Move, and I like them better than the ones on the 2Move. The Battery Door on the 2Move is a HUGE improvement, though, as is the volume knob, which can actually be turned without undue angst 

 The Meier 2Move retains its very high ranking in this survey, and I believe it represents the best value for money in all of portable amp land.


*> Meier Audio XXS *

 Info: Kein Titel

 Jan was kind enough to loan me a XXS, which I really wanted to listen to, since it’s even more affordable than the 2Move, and does not have a DAC, which I don’t need. Unfortunately, the XXS also does not have crossfeed, and I missed that. One of the features I like best with Meier amps is the very well implemented crossfeed circuit. That said, the XXS is much smaller and lighter than the 2Move – it’s Pico/Predator/Tomahawk sized.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice, attractive metal case. Looks extremely rugged. The jacks seem to work well, although they require more force to get the plugs in than I would like. Totally silent though – no noise at ALL.
*Treble:* A+: Treble is extremely clear. Smooth, open, liquid, and detailed, while lacking in any apparent grain. Highly transparent, and neutral – it doesn’t stick out at all. Great extension and air. Equal to the 2Move in this regard. Cymbals are reproduces with the right amount of attack and decay, and they really sound like cymbals.
*Midrange:* A: Excellent, nicely open mids. Inviting, clean, open, and engaging. Very clean. Just like the 2Move. Excellent with vocals of all kinds, and especially with female vocals. 
*Bass:* A-: To my surprise, the bass was slightly less powerful than the 2Move. While the mids and treble seemed identical to the 2Move, the 2Move has more bass drive. The quality of the bass was very good. Might not be the best choice for bass-shy headphones. Was terrific with the HFI-780, though, which are bassier.
*Neutrality*: A: What can I say here, other than “its Neutral”. Because it is. Portable amps that color the sound are not a good idea, IMO. Let your headphones color the sound as you like – let your amps give you the music purely. The XXS absolutely does this.
*Soundstaging:* A: soundstage width is very good, depth is just short of the best. Image specificity is very good. Overall the soundstage is quite impressive for a small, relatively inexpensive amp. I prefer the 2Move with crossfeed on, however.
*Transparency:* A: You cannot possibly ask for more transparency out of a small portable amp than this. This has always been a big benefit of Meier amps to me. There is NO excuse for lack of transparency in an amp, yet it isn’t easy to do, and many amps don’t get this right. The XXS does.

 Well, I kind of thought that I would perhaps ditch my Move in favor of the smaller XXS, since I have no need for a USB DAC. But I won’t be doing that. As good as the XXS is, and it’s amazing for the size and price, the combination of the slightly more robust bass of the Move, and the great crossfeed, mean I will be keeping my Move, and I recommend people spend the extra money for the 2Move if they can. If not, the XXS is an incredible bargain for the money, and will make life VERY hard for many an amp maker.

*> Storm B-3*

 (No web site that I know of – in the USA can be purchased for $220 from EBay).

 I was asked by the manufacturer to review this amp. I do not have the original Storm B4 anymore, but the maker indicated that the B3 was better. I really do wish I had the B4 still, because I was pretty impressed with the B4, but not so the B3, I am afraid to say.


*
 Build Quality*: A: Better than the original B4 – the volume control doesn’t scratch, and it’s a solidly built, attractively designed amp.
*Treble:* B: The treble is reasonably neutral. There is a noticeable tough of grain though, AND the amp lacks extension and air. I wouldn’t want any more treble energy, and with bright cans it might not be a great match. But in general the treble is extended and clean.
*Midrange:* B: The mids are colored. It’s not a strong coloration, but they are colored – there is a slightly “hooty”, oddly recessed quality to them that is immediately noticeable, and for me detracts from the performance.
*Bass*: B: Good bass quantity, but the bass seems kind of indistinct. Adequate, but nothing to write home about.
*Neutrality:* B-: Uneven sounding, and somewhat colored. It simply ISN’T neutral. And that’s a problem.
*Soundstaging:* B: good width, good depth. Average performance here as well – many amps I have heard do better.
*Transparency*: B-: Every amp I have in house at the moment crushes the B-3 in terms of transparency. 

 Some B3 owner is sure to say I’m nuts, or that mine is broken. But it isn’t. It works fine, and I put more than 250 hours on it before reviewing it. While the rest of the portable amp universe seems so be moving strongly forward, sadly, that is not the case here. At $220, the Storm B3 is impossible to recommend, and IMO needs to go back to the drawing board.

*> Ray Samuels Audio The Predator*

 Info: News - Ray Samuels Audio

 The Predator is Ray Samuels’ AMP/DAC combo. I will have some comments about the DAC section, along with the 2Move’s DAC section, in another thread. Here, we will deal only with The Predator as a headphone amp. 
 Also, the loaner Predator that HeadphoneAddict was nice enough to send me was fully broken in – more than 1000 hours.

*Build Quality:* A: Excellent, attractive metal case. Like the other RSA amps, the amp exhibits no noise at all, and I mean zero. Dead quiet – a major plus. Has a 3-position gain selector switch. Slight turn on “click”. 
*Treble:* A: Outstanding. Clean, grain-free, extended and transparent. Lacks the last little bit of treble air that the iQube has, but it has smooth and detailed highs . I cannot imagine anyone having anything but prais for the Predator’s treble reproduction.
*Midrange:* A: smooth, clean, and open – provides that all-important wide-open window to the music. Classic RSA performance here, which is to say, excellent. One gets the feeling that one could listen endlessly without listener fatigue. Listening to Holly Cole’s “Tango ‘till They’re Sore” was truly a pleasure with the way her voice comes through.
*Bass:* A+: Terrific bass. WOW. Deep, tight, punch, ample and well defined. Sheesh! Phenomenal. How does such a small amp make bass like this? The double-kick drum on Circa Survive’s “Mandala” was really impressive. Good stuff.
*Neutrality:* A: A remarkably neutral amp. Not complaints here at all, other than missing the very last bit of treble extension.
*Soundstaging:* A: Excellent depth and width. Nothing spectacular, but very solid.
*Transparency:* A: Right up there with the best in this regard – has that “wow” factor of feeling a wide open window to the music. No grain or opaqueness. Very good performance, bettered only by the iQube, and on par with the excellent Meier 2Move.

 Given all of RSA’s other excellent portable amps, I really don’t think anyone would buy the Predator unless they needed a USB DAC. But the amp performance is TERRIFIC. Ray knows his stuff.

*Conclusions (2/23/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 36 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4.RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS
 7. Xin Reference
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Storm B3
 24. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## direcow

hmz... looks like the lower current in the amp section for the XXS causes quite a difference... sigh, now I feel like an upgrade.

 Thanks for the review, Skylab!


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will have some comments about the DAC section, along with the 2Move’s DAC section, in another thread._

 

Would you like to post the link here to this another thread? Please, please.


----------



## Capunk

Some said Corda2Move amp slightly better than Corda Move amp, is it perfectly identical amp?


----------



## Downer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you like to post the link here to this another thread? Please, please._

 

I am very interested in reading that thread too...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you like to post the link here to this another thread? Please, please._

 

Sure I will...once I actually make such a thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Capunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some said Corda2Move amp slightly better than Corda Move amp, is it perfectly identical amp?_

 

According to Jan, the amp sections are 100% identical, and in listening to them, I found them to sound 100% identical.


----------



## Ash

Excellent work Skylab. 
 Do you know if the XXS is essentially the same amp as the headsix?
 Do u have any plans to review Gary's PAv2v?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!

 I believe the Headsix and XXS are essentially the same, yes.

 No, no current plans to review that or ANY other portable amps at the moment. Need a break from portable amp reviewing at the moment


----------



## Wmcmanus

I'm just catching up on this thread (again) and focused just on the now famous Post #1. I've found that in the past couple of years I've been doing less and less portable listening but that will be changing soon as I'll be spending more time on the road. 

 So after reading through all 36 amps reviewed, I kind had this "cut to the chase" sensation, as in "Thanks, skylab... but I'd hate to be you and have to do all of that work!" although it has quite clearly been a labor of love. 

 Oh, the "cut to the chase" part... well, I have several portable amps and quite like them all (RSA Hornet, Tomahawk and the transportable XP-7, a couple of Xin amps, I believe SMIIIv6 and SMIV, Portaphile 2v2). At the same time, I'd like to try a new one or two, and these outstanding reviews give me a chance to see rather clearly through the otherwise murky waters:

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)

 I like that! #1 and then 4 different #2 choices. Interesting.

 The #1 amp is definitely worth looking into. I suspect I'll end up owning one eventually, but at that price I'd love to hear it first. There will be many times when it will be nice to have an outstanding transportable amp on hand, especially when I can listen for hours on end and I'm just parked somewhere relaxing.

 The #2 amps can then be ranked by price and size (smaller being better) and that leads me to the 2MOVE. Of course Jan is a great guy (not that any of the others aren't), the price is right, and I'd love to have an excellent portable amp with crossfeed. Done!

 I wouldn't have been led to either of these amps were it not for this thread, so that's what the "thanks" is all about. Sometimes you have to do your own listening, but other times (like this, for me), it can be equally wise to simply allow yourself to be guided. 

 I'm also happy to know that the RSA and Xin amps that I now have and very much love, have rated quite highly on this list. To the extent that these #2 options might be even "better" in some ways is highly encouraging. Even if (as I suspect) they represent more of a "different flavor" than an absolute improvement, having one or two of them to toss into the mix will add a lot to the fun of my portable listening sessions.

 I'd like to give some of these amps a good listen at CanJam '08. Among other tasks, I'm wanting to compare the Pico to the Predator to the 2MOVE. I know that all are winners, but I think it will be fun to do the listening myself before deciding.

 I'd love to consider the iQube but at 399 Euro (nearly $600), that would take a lot more convincing. Absolutely gorgeous case work though!

 As for the Lisa III, one day, one day... I'm looking forward to hearing that one as well. The price factor becomes less of a gulp (relative to the iQube), since it seems to be more or less in a league of its own (and is actually less money). Again, portability is not an issue for me because this amp would serve a different role than the others.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the excellent post, Wmcmanus! Happy I was able to be of even a small amount of help. It sure sounds like for you, a date with LISA is in order


----------



## Luminette

indeed, thanks as always!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I agree with your statements regarding the description of the sound qualities of the Predator and XXS (HeadSix). I love both of them, for different reasons and with different cans. 

 Based on how much better my Predator sounds vs my HeadSix when I listen at my home, I'm surprised Predator it isn't tied with the 2MOVE. I understand the price can affect the rank, but I would have guessed the size should make up for some of that. Oh well. It sure does sound more like a full-sized amp than ever thought possible from a portable. I look forward to your DAC evaluation. The loaner has about 220 hours on the DAC section, RSA recommends 150 for burn-in.

 The HeadSix, being the same as the XXS, is the portable that I found had the best synergy with the Darth Beyers (small cups) as the HeadSix (XXS) would tame the boomy bass and bring the mids more forward at the same time.

 The Predator sounds pretty good with everything I threw at it, except the Darths. It performs stunningly with my Edition 9


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It performs stunningly with my Edition 9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is great to hear as I hope to get some 9's in the future. The bass from the Predator, after maturing, is some of the best quality bass I have ever heard. From what I have read it should couple very will with the Edition 9.


----------



## Cosmic Fool

Skylab, have you had the chance to listen to the 2Move with your Dt 990's? I'm hoping it would tame the highs just a little bit, tighten up the bass somewhat so that the mids would come a tad more foreward. Are these realistic expectations?


----------



## Skylab

I did try the 2Move briefly with my DT990's just to see if it could drive them, since my 990's are 600 ohm. It was able to. But the 600 ohm 990's don't need to have the treble tamed, since the 600 ohm has much smoother treble than the 250 ohm version , so I cannot really comment on that.


----------



## Rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree with your statements regarding the description of the sound qualities of the Predator and XXS (HeadSix). I love both of them, for different reasons and with different cans. 

 Based on how much better my Predator sounds vs my HeadSix when I listen at my home, I'm surprised Predator it isn't tied with the 2MOVE. I understand the price can affect the rank, but I would have guessed the size should make up for some of that. Oh well. It sure does sound more like a full-sized amp than ever thought possible from a portable. I look forward to your DAC evaluation. The loaner has about 220 hours on the DAC section, RSA recommends 150 for burn-in.

 The HeadSix, being the same as the XXS, is the portable that I found had the best synergy with the Darth Beyers (small cups) as the HeadSix (XXS) would tame the boomy bass and bring the mids more forward at the same time.

 The Predator sounds pretty good with everything I threw at it, except the Darths. It performs stunningly with my Edition 9 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you listened to the XXS with your livewires at all? I'm looking at it and a few others, and finding it hard to make a decision. I like a fairly bright presentation (Grado fanboy) so what you describe with the Darths sounds like it might work for me, assuming it has a similar effect with the livewires.


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cosmic Fool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, have you had the chance to listen to the 2Move with your Dt 990's? I'm hoping it would tame the highs just a little bit, tighten up the bass somewhat so that the mids would come a tad more foreward. Are these realistic expectations? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had DT990 / 250 Ohm and I did not like them with Move. There were too much bass and treble with this combo. I liked DT990 with Headroom Bithead more.


----------



## Cosmic Fool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had DT990 / 250 Ohm and I did not like them with Move. There were too much bass and treble with this combo. I liked DT990 with Headroom Bithead more._

 

That doesn't sound good at all. Those are exactly the things that I want too avoid. Thanks for the input!

 @ Skylab: thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us! Your title of 'Reviewerus Prolificus' is well deserved!


----------



## Manny Calavera

Thank you Skylab for the excellent reviews ! Much appreciated as always !


----------



## donunus

Thanks for the reviews. You've really been doing great service to the community


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, guys!


----------



## Wilashort

Yes, very good reviews...
 How are the mids of the PIco VS the Arietta...?
 Thanks


----------



## TSi

thanks for the reviews =D

 hopefully, we can get the iBasso P2, D2 reviews too later on


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you listened to the XXS with your livewires at all? I'm looking at it and a few others, and finding it hard to make a decision. I like a fairly bright presentation (Grado fanboy) so what you describe with the Darths sounds like it might work for me, assuming it has a similar effect with the livewires._

 

The Livewires are not bad with the HeadSix (same as XXS) but there are better amps for Livewires. * Out of all my portable amps, Livewires do best with the Predator*, as they don't need an amp to tame the bass or bring the mids more forward. If you want the Meier amp for Livewires, I'd consider the 2MOVE instead.

 If I could only have one portable amp out of all those I own, as long as I could keep the D1 for my optical/coax DAC, right now that choice would be Predator.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reviews. You've really been doing great service to the community_

 

I second that motion! 

 I wasn't as interested in his rank as I am his description of bass, mids, treble, neutrality, transparency, etc... It's a great help! He's spot on so far.


----------



## sghound

as usual, SKY's da man!


----------



## Aurven

Yeah great job sky! keep up the good work man!


----------



## Flyfreely

Thanks for your review~ I think it is broken, I think there are some fatal faults in this stb3, maybe damaged during transportation.


----------



## Rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Livewires are not bad with the HeadSix (same as XXS) but there are better amps for Livewires. * Out of all my portable amps, Livewires do best with the Predator*, as they don't need an amp to tame the bass or bring the mids more forward. If you want the Meier amp for Livewires, I'd consider the 2MOVE instead.

 If I could only have one portable amp out of all those I own, as long as I could keep the D1 for my optical/coax DAC, right now that choice would be Predator._

 

Thanks for the reply ... unfortunately the predator is a little out of my budget, the tomahawk is probably right at the very top end, but i've read conflicting reports on it and the livewires.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply ... unfortunately the predator is a little out of my budget, the tomahawk is probably right at the very top end, but i've read conflicting reports on it and the livewires._

 

The Tomahawk was best with my SE530 but not Livewires. The 2Move then would be my choice if not Predator, next out of what I have owned Headstage Lyrix, then Headsix/XXS, then used or new Super Macro 3, then Tomahawk last (but still acceptable). This ranking is for synergy with livewires, not amps in general.


----------



## Skylab

I spent some time today listening to the USB DACs of the Meier 2Move and the Predator. I found both to provide generally excellent sound. The differences between the 2Move and the Predator were generally still audible from the USB DACs. My iMod iPod provides better sound, IMO, than the USB DACs in either of these units. However, the sound quality from the USB DACs of both of the Predator and the 2Move was excellent. 

 I did feel that the 2Move's USB DAC provided a little more detail than the Predator's. However, the 2Move's DAC had just a tiny bit of noise (not audible unless the volume control was WAY up without music playing), whereas the Predator's DAC was totally quiet. The 2Move's USB DAC is much quieter than the original Move's DAC was, and the 2Move's DAC is much more transparent sounding than the DAC in the original Move. 

 So, in short, I think that both the 2Move and the Predator provide USB DAC performance that would be more than satisfactory for people who find this feature to be valuable.


----------



## tennisplyr3

thanks, skylab, for the informative review.


----------



## jlingo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is great to hear as I hope to get some 9's in the future. The bass from the Predator, after maturing, is some of the best quality bass I have ever heard. From what I have read it should couple very will with the Edition 9._

 

Yes yes, predator is a definite kick ass with the Edition 9. I'm very surprised too this synergy.


----------



## jemsound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I spent some time today listening to the USB DACs of the Meier 2Move and the Predator. I found both to provide generally excellent sound. The differences between the 2Move and the Predator were generally still audible from the USB DACs. My iMod iPod provides better sound, IMO, than the USB DACs in either of these units. However, the sound quality from the USB DACs of both of the Predator and the 2Move was excellent. 

 I did feel that the 2Move's USB DAC provided a little more detail than the Predator's. However, the 2Move's DAC had just a tiny bit of noise (not audible unless the volume control was WAY up without music playing), whereas the Predator's DAC was totally quiet. The 2Move's USB DAC is much quieter than the original Move's DAC was, and the 2Move's DAC is much more transparent sounding than the DAC in the original Move. 

 So, in short, I think that both the 2Move and the Predator provide USB DAC performance that would be more than satisfactory for people who find this feature to be valuable._

 

Thank you so much for your very helpful reviews of partable amps, and your post today about the USB DACs in the 2Move and Predator. It would be of great interest if you could also compare the USB DAC in the Pico to the two others, since according to the description on the website the Pico's DAC may use a more sophisticated design.


----------



## GreenLeo

Hi Sky,

 The reviews for the Pico and the Predator are the ones that I've been waiting for. Thanks again for your good work. I use your information as a strong reference for buying my headphone amps.

 Would you consider the following a service to the new head-fiers:
 Remove the Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 from the rank -- just like what you did for the company called Headphoneia. The practice of Larry's company is bad and it's sad to me to know that there is one more 'victim' (see truant thread, LaRocco PRII MKII. Waiting or FRAUD?)

 Don't get me wrong, I have never bought any thing from Larry and this email is not personal. I have read lots of threads and heard lots of behaviour of Larry and I've avoided the pit. However, I must admit that I did think seriously if I should buy the PRII.



 For new head-fiers, they may not be that experienced and may read your post only up to the Transparency section of the PRII and then trapped.

 Removing PRII from the rank may help new head-fiers. For the ones who are patiently enough, they can still find your impressions about PRII and your warning. It's up to them to take risk.

 My 2 cents.


----------



## hamparts

Larry Milligan Owes me $1024 for a PRII mk2 and a Diablo.

 He promised they both were shipping on December 10 and then he promised a refund on January 18. I've got nothing but a couple of emails as proof.

 I second the motion to remove his amps because I ordered the PRII mk2 after reading your review last August.


----------



## hamparts

Larry Milligan Owes me $1024 for a PRII mk2 and a Diablo.

 He promised they both were shipping on December 10 and then he promised a refund on January 18. I've got nothing but a couple of emails as proof.

 I second the motion to remove his amps because I ordered the PRII mk2 after reading your review last August.


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hamparts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry Milligan Owes me $1024 for a PRII mk2 and a Diablo.

 He promised they both were shipping on December 10 and then he promised a refund on January 18. I've got nothing but a couple of emails as proof.

 I second the motion to remove his amps because I ordered the PRII mk2 after reading your review last August._

 

Skylab listened to a Larocco and reported here is opinion on what he thought of it. That was his opinion of what he heard and he worote it up here; nothing wrong with that. He didn't say anyone should order one or that Larocco is a good or reliable supplier. There's plenty of information on this site that would stop many of us going anywhere near Larocco, some of it posted by Skylab. If, despite that, you ordered one and sent money, you should take responsibility, not try to implicate Skylab, who just gave us his opinion of the SQ and has commented on that supplier's terrible business practices. Some of us are interested to know what the Larocco sounds like, even if we wouldn't dream of ordering one.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hamparts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry Milligan Owes me $1024 for a PRII mk2 and a Diablo.

 He promised they both were shipping on December 10 and then he promised a refund on January 18. I've got nothing but a couple of emails as proof.

 I second the motion to remove his amps because I ordered the PRII mk2 after reading your review last August._

 

Who is Larry Milligan?


----------



## FallenAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who is Larry Milligan?_

 

Uhm... the guy that runs *laroccoaudio.net* and is causing all this trouble!


----------



## Skylab

I think my warning in this review about Larocco Audio is sufficiently strong, but I will re-state it here, just so there is no doubt: IF YOU BUY FROM LAROCCO AUDIO, YOU ARE ROLLING THE DICE - read and research here on Head-fi before taking the plunge. 

 With regard to the DAC in the Pico, as I mentioned, the Pico I was loaned for review was the amp-only version. Further, I want to make it clear that in the review thread, the review and ranking DOES NOT include the performance of any included DAC.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think my warning in this review about Larocco Audio is sufficiently strong, but I will re-state it here, just so there is no doubt: IF YOU BUY FROM LAROCCO AUDIO, YOU ARE ROLLING THE DICE - read and research here on Head-fi before taking the plunge. 

 With regard to the DAC in the Pico, as I mentioned, the Pico I was loaned for review was the amp-only version. Further, I want to make it clear that in the review thread, the review and ranking DOES NOT include the performance of any included DAC._

 


 Rolling the dice?? Sounds like you're talking about Xin too!!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hamparts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry Milligan Owes me $1024 for a PRII mk2 and a Diablo.

 He promised they both were shipping on December 10 and then he promised a refund on January 18. I've got nothing but a couple of emails as proof.

 I second the motion to remove his amps because I ordered the PRII mk2 after reading your review last August._

 

Hopefully... you purchased via credit card, so you can get your money back. Mastercard / Visa are very good about charge backs (crediting your account) in such instances. PayPal is not! Mastercard saved me the loss, when I had problems obtaining my refund from 3c-Store when they shipped me the wrong DV332 amp, and refused to refund my money. 

 NEVER... NEVER... NEVER... pay via PayPal from your bank account! Always pay via your credit card, either directly, or via PayPal - so you'll have the security offered by your credit card vendor. PayPal is worthless - they do not protect the buyer (regardless of what they say).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Flyfreely* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your review~ I think it is broken, I think there are some fatal faults in this stb3, maybe damaged during transportation._

 

I didn't want to let this comment go by without a response. I have just been wondering how to reply. But I have decided. There is clearly nothing "wrong" with the STB3 - if functions properly. I just didn't care for it's sound.

 But I think it deserves a second opinion. *Nate, Miguel*, if you guys are monitoring this thread, I'd like for you to have a chance to review the STB3. If you are willing, please PM me and I will send it out to you.


----------



## nickknutson

Skylab, I know you warn them thoroughly about dealing with Larry, but I agree with the others, it might be a good idea to remove the LaRocco Audio amps from the list completely. Granted, they are great amps, but, as you know, his business practices are intolerable and we shouldn't be endorsing his products with good reviews. Now, I'm not saying you're endorsing him directly, just indirectly with your positive words.

 Heck, I'm in favor of removing Xin's amps from the list as well...he's just as bad.

 This is all to protect the newb's from making a mistake and ordering from either one of those companies.

 I'm just trying to be a friend, this isn't an attack on you in any way...they're great amps.


----------



## Skylab

This is a slippery slope, guys. Where do we draw the line? No reviews for any amp that anyone has ever had a bad experience with the vendor? Xin frustrates people, but that I know of, he has never ever stiffed anyone. 

 I pulled the Headphonia amp from the ranking only after it was discontinued. It remains in the review, with a warning. I believe that the PRII is a well-known enough reference point that it's useful to keep it in the review. However, I will beef up the warning.


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a slippery slope, guys. Where do we draw the line? No reviews for any amp that anyone has ever had a bad experience with the vendor? Xin frustrates people, but that I know of, he has never ever stiffed anyone._

 

Xin and Larry are beyond bad experiences...they're trainwrecks. 
 Xin is too eccentric...and Larry's a disgrace to the audio world.

 Xin stiffed me, I placed an order last June and I haven't seen anything...and I've tried to email him multiple times, with no reply. The only plus side with Xin is that his stuff is relatively cheap, compared to LaRocco.

 I'm sorry, but I strongly dislike both amp makers.


----------



## aluren

i think the larocco and xin amps should stay in the reviews and rankings and that extra warning would be enough. you can still try to find something here for sale or post a wtb on the forum. nothing is worth a year's wait unless sony's re-releasing the R-10's for $1,000....


----------



## fkclo

I would second the retention of Xin and Larry's amps in the reviews. While people may have trouble buying new from the manufacturers, there are folks who are also selling them used from time to time which can be quite a different story when it comes to waiting time.

 F. lo


----------



## musicmaker

This is a real shame. The PRII is a superb amp sonically and visually. Its a piece of art. Too bad Larry operates the way he does. I got mine on the FS forums and love it to pieces. I do worry about having to send it in at some point for repair etc. Ah well !


----------



## kostalex

Skylab is right that it is hard to draw the line. But it is possible - this line is a border of this thread.

 1) Skylab aimed his review to amps and their SQ, not vendors and their reputation.

 2) This review is based on his personal experience, he did not write anything like "I do not recommend this amp because some people consider too bass-shy...". Simillarly, he refuse to write "... because some people are frustrated with the service of ..."

 So, anybody frustrated by Larocco or Xin may open or post to another thread, like "Bad service reports". I beleive Skylab will recommend to check this thread before buying from some companies.


----------



## fkclo

Very well said, kostalex.

 Olympics is around the corner this year and the usual debate of mixing sport with other international agenda is again getting hot.

 Looks like we have an analogy here. I would favour a new thread on vendor service and wonder if anyone would rank them like Skylab rank the amps ?

 F. Lo


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a slippery slope, guys.........I believe that the PRII is a well-known enough reference point that it's useful to keep it in the review. However, I will beef up the warning._

 

The perfect compromise!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Given all of RSA’s other excellent portable amps, I really don’t think anyone would buy the Predator unless they needed a USB DAC. _

 

I don't entirely agree with this. I need an optical DAC, and have that with my MicroDAC, so I don't need the Predator's DAC. However, the allure to get something that sounds as good as the SR71, but in a much smaller package, is enough to make me interested. I never heard a Tomahawk, but the Hornet I always thought was sonically a good step down from the SR71. 

 I can't imagine I'm the only one.........


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The perfect compromise!




 I don't entirely agree with this. I need an optical DAC, and have that with my MicroDAC, so I don't need the Predator's DAC. However, the allure to get something that sounds as good as the SR71, but in a much smaller package, is enough to make me interested. I never heard a Tomahawk, but the Hornet I always thought was sonically a good step down from the SR71. 

 I can't imagine I'm the only one........._

 

That's actually a fair point. It's been a while since I had the SR71 - it is kinda big, and the Predator is nice and small.


----------



## antonyfirst

I wish RSA made amp only versions of the Predator.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FallenAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uhm... the guy that runs *laroccoaudio.net* and is causing all this trouble!_

 

Thanks for the info.I'm taking Skylabs advice about that site.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I know you warn them thoroughly about dealing with Larry, but I agree with the others, it might be a good idea to remove the LaRocco Audio amps from the list completely. Granted, they are great amps, but, as you know, his business practices are intolerable and we shouldn't be endorsing his products with good reviews. Now, I'm not saying you're endorsing him directly, just indirectly with your positive words.

 Heck, I'm in favor of removing Xin's amps from the list as well...he's just as bad.

 This is all to protect the newb's from making a mistake and ordering from either one of those companies.

 I'm just trying to be a friend, this isn't an attack on you in any way...they're great amps._

 

X2 I agree also,these two company's are behind time on customer service.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab is right that it is hard to draw the line. But it is possible - this line is a border of this thread.

 1) Skylab aimed his review to amps and their SQ, not vendors and their reputation.

 2) This review is based on his personal experience, he did not write anything like "I do not recommend this amp because some people consider too bass-shy...". Simillarly, he refuse to write "... because some people are frustrated with the service of ..."

 So, anybody frustrated by Larocco or Xin may open or post to another thread, like "Bad service reports". I beleive Skylab will recommend to check this thread before buying from some companies._

 

you make great points, and much common sense.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xin and Larry are beyond bad experiences...they're trainwrecks. 
 Xin is too eccentric...and Larry's a disgrace to the audio world.

 Xin stiffed me, I placed an order last June and I haven't seen anything...and I've tried to email him multiple times, with no reply. The only plus side with Xin is that his stuff is relatively cheap, compared to LaRocco.

 I'm sorry, but I strongly dislike both amp makers._

 

Nick: gotta take issue with the fact that Xin "stiffed" you. Were you the only one in this boat, I'd agree. The fact that there are many of us waiting just as long if not longer with the same "no email response" gripe that you have means he has lousy business practices. I just don't think his business practices are up to my standards. we haven't been "stiffed" because we'll get our goods. We're just geting them on HIS schedule, not ours


----------



## gbx2006

Deleted.


----------



## GreenLeo

Sorry guys, I find that I can use neither the mulit or the the quote function. Hence I copy the words and state the corresponding post #.


 From fkclo (post #1739):
 “I would second the retention of Xin and Larry's amps in the reviews.”

 Agree. The review should be retained. A wholehearted review with impartial attitude and objective criteria for ranking a amp is invaluable. 

 Also, what I suggest was to remove the PRII from the rankings rather than the reviews (post #1275).


 From Skylab (post #1736):
 “I pulled the Headphonia amp from the ranking only after it was discontinued. It remains in the review, with a warning.”

 Agree. The production of the PRII is practically discontinued. That’s why I suggest to remove the PRII from the Ranking.


 From Skylab (post #1731):
 “I think my warning in this review about Larocco Audio is sufficiently strong, but I will re-state it here, just so there is no doubt: IF YOU BUY FROM LAROCCO AUDIO, YOU ARE ROLLING THE DICE - read and research here on Head-fi before taking the plunge.”

 Agree, the warning is strong enough if the newbie reads up to this post. I see that you’ve told the reader to read entire review in the 1st post of this thread. Would you consider putting the words “IF YOU BUY FROM LAROCCO AUDIO, YOU ARE ROLLING THE DICE - read and research here on Head-fi before taking the plunge.” in the first post as well?



 I think Xin’s amp should be kept in the rank while PRII shouldn’t: 
 I pulled the trigger of buying an amp from Xin on Apr 2007. Up till now I’ve received nothing from him. Needless to say that he never reply any of my emails. However, I think Xin is honest. He never charged me money. I’ve heard no fraud case about Xin and lots of Head-fiers are willing to witness this. The key point of dealing with Xin is not to pay through PayPal but with credit cards. Then he will charge you when he delivers the amp – I think this is fair.

 For Larry, the delivery of the Diablo is a shame at best. I felt that the guy who runs Headphonia (the guy who stole Jan’s design, can’t remember his name) is relatively better than Larry – The guy uses other people’s design to get money from customer and deliver the goods; Larry uses other people’s design to get money from customer but do NOT deliver the goods. Larry’s PRII deserves a treatment like Headphonia.

 My 2 cents.


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who is Larry Milligan?_

 

Spike's brother?


----------



## Juli

I want to buy an portable amp with my iMod, because my iQube is more an transportable amp.
 I've narrowed my choices down to the iBasso T2 and the Minibox-e+.
 I would want to use my Sf 5 Pros and maybe in the near future some Ety 4Ps.
 Now I would like to now if I could hear hiss with any of the 2 amps, even if it is super quiet hiss, I want to know it.

 Thanks in advance,

 Juli


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Doesn't the minibox-E (+) have an impedance switch, which would eliminate hiss if your IEM were too sensitive?

 It also seems like it would sound better according to the reviews.


----------



## Juli

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't the minibox-E (+) have an impedance switch, which would eliminate hiss if your IEM were too sensitive?

 It also seems like it would sound better according to the reviews._

 

Yes, it would, but wouldn't it change the sound of the IEMs? When I use the UE Flight Attenuator (~120Ω) the whole frequency spectrum goes more flat and the bass is almost gone.


----------



## antonyfirst

Yes, it will change the sound, so don't do that.


----------



## LDMES

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Juli* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to buy an portable amp with my iMod, because my iQube is more an transportable amp.
 I've narrowed my choices down to the iBasso T2 and the Minibox-e+.
 I would want to use my Sf 5 Pros and maybe in the near future some Ety 4Ps.
 Now I would like to now if I could hear hiss with any of the 2 amps, even if it is super quiet hiss, I want to now it.

 Thanks in advance,

 Juli_

 

I use a Minibox E+ with my iMod and my E500s and I decided not to use any of the three extra switches (PtoS, Soundstage, and Bass) as I didn't like what they do to the sound. With my E500s I can't go higher than 4 on the volume knob (and BTW no Hiss), and with my DT770/80s I don't go higher than 8. I like the sound out of it. I really like the sound out of my Portaphile V2^2maxxed, but with the Minibox E+ I don't have to keep opening it up and changing batteries and as it holds a charge so that I can charge both my Rockbox'd iMod and the Minibox E+ at the same time and all is good. I wish that my Portaphile V2^2maxxed could charge the batteries internally and then I probably wouldn't have bought the Minibox E+ (as I really like the sound out of my Portaphile,) but I am very pleased so far with my purchase. I should disclose that with all that said I am in line for a Pico...ah Head-Fi


----------



## Drag0n

As per todays date, march 2, 2008......this has been a review of 36 amps, so then why is there only 24 in the rankings list? Id like to see how the others compared soundwise in order on the list.


----------



## Walie

there are 36 amps on the list, you need to check it again


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Some headphones (other than Ety) sound better with the P to S switch, including Koss KSC35. The Livewires don't because they only need 50ohm. I have this feature on my Super Macro 3 v3.


----------



## Drag0n

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Walie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there are 36 amps on the list, you need to check it again_

 



 OK, so now it’s now 36 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even is these amps may include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. Xin Reference
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Storm B3
 24. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.

 ***Taken from the end of Skylabs review on page 1 of this thread.***


----------



## Mr. Tadashi

The reason there are 24 numbers is there are 4 amps listed with the rank of 2nd 2 listed with a rank of 3rd and so on. It is that Skylab felt that in his rankings that the sound quality of many of them were tied. And opposed to having the 4amps tied at second and then having the next set being ranked at 5th which is a relatively common thing to do he listed them in 3rd the ones that he felt that fell into the ranking. Ultimately the list has 36amps on it but, there are 24ranking places. Many were assigned the same rank number due to the way Skylab decided to make his rankings.


----------



## thedauntlessone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hamparts* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry Milligan Owes me $1024 for a PRII mk2 and a Diablo.

 He promised they both were shipping on December 10 and then he promised a refund on January 18. I've got nothing but a couple of emails as proof.

 I second the motion to remove his amps because I ordered the PRII mk2 after reading your review last August._

 

Wow that really sucks... I hope you get your money back.


----------



## Drag0n

Class action law suit. I think he owes alot of people amps or money.


----------



## Drag0n

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr. Tadashi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The reason there are 24 numbers is there are 4 amps listed with the rank of 2nd 2 listed with a rank of 3rd and so on. It is that Skylab felt that in his rankings that the sound quality of many of them were tied. And opposed to having the 4amps tied at second and then having the next set being ranked at 5th which is a relatively common thing to do he listed them in 3rd the ones that he felt that fell into the ranking. Ultimately the list has 36amps on it but, there are 24ranking places. Many were assigned the same rank number due to the way Skylab decided to make his rankings._

 


 Thankyou.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, there were instances where I simply felt the perfoermance of certain amps was too close to warrant a different ranking, and so those were tied.


----------



## sanity8me

are some amps better than others in regards to IEMs?


----------



## ammatos

Dear Skylab - What happened to the Headphonia (aka Headstage Lyrix). You reviewed it, but you didn't rank it in the list. Based on your review it would seem to rate a "4" on the list (or a "5" ???). Also, you noted that your Headphonia was maxed out, but I'm not sure if you meant the current TOL unit, the "Pro USB Total" or something different at that time.

 It is possible that you may have covered this point in this VERY long thread, if so - my apologies.

 thanXs,

 angel


----------



## Traddad

So....did you ever get the MisterX PINT to review? I'm lovin' mine!


----------



## Skylab

I have no current plans to review the PINT, or the Headstage Lyrix. I do plan to review the Mini3 very soon.


----------



## Mr. Tadashi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have no current plans to review the PINT, or the Headstage Lyrix. I do plan to review the Mini3 very soon._

 

I am looking forward to seeing your mini 3 review.(But I am not looking forward to the final checks on my Mini 3 build 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## Traddad

Quote:


 Not sure if this has been asked yet, but have you considered adding any DIY amps to the list? I'm pretty curious how a PINT or XP amp would rank with the rest. 
 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I am being lent a MisterX amp soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So...this isn't going to happen? Just a question, not pointing fingers. I'd also love to see how the PINT stands up against the comp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Traddad* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...this isn't going to happen? Just a question, not pointing fingers. I'd also love to see how the PINT stands up against the comp._

 

No, not going to happen. I decided, for reasons that are entirely my own, not to review any MisterX amp.


----------



## Traddad

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, not going to happen. I decided, for reasons that are entirely my own, not to review any MisterX amp._

 


 As the dial turns....


----------



## Tokenganjaclan

I'd really like to read a review of the mini3 myself. I don't really care who built it but a more of how does it stack up among the other options that are out there. Skylab you do great reviews and I've used them on making a few choices just off your reviews. Saved me the headache and $$$$ in the long run. I think my ears are very close to Skylabs because I feel the same way on his reviews..So a mini3 review would be a great read even if it was built by" the guy next door"


----------



## [S]uds

Great reviews, Skylab. It helped me greatly in chosing an amp to drive my DT880's(250 Ohm). I ended up picking the Corda 2Move. Just a quick question; I know you mentioned you like the Move using "high current but low gain". What would you use with my DT880's(250 Ohm, and the New Version)? Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great reviews, Skylab. It helped me greatly in chosing an amp to drive my DT880's(250 Ohm). I ended up picking the Corda 2Move. Just a quick question; I know you mentioned you like the Move using "high current but low gain". What would you use with my DT880's(250 Ohm, and the New Version)? Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_




Thanks for the kind words. Unless you listen very loud, high current/low gain will always yield the best sound.


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. Unless you listen very loud, high current/low gain will always yield the best sound._

 

Any reasons that this combination gives the best sound?


----------



## GreenLeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ammatos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dear Skylab - What happened to the Headphonia (aka Headstage Lyrix). You reviewed it, but you didn't rank it in the list. Based on your review it would seem to rate a "4" on the list (or a "5" ???). Also, you noted that your Headphonia was maxed out, but I'm not sure if you meant the current TOL unit, the "Pro USB Total" or something different at that time.

 It is possible that you may have covered this point in this VERY long thread, if so - my apologies.

 thanXs,

 angel_

 

I believe that the ranking existed sometime before. But it seemd that the behaviour of the producer of the amp wasn't that ethical (Jan's amp was copied) and then the rank was then removed.

 Correct me if my memory serves wrong. Thx.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any reasons that this combination gives the best sound?_

 

I think that low gain mode yields less noise, and high current gives the amp more power.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreenLeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe that the ranking existed sometime before. But it seemd that the behaviour of the producer of the amp wasn't that ethical (Jan's amp was copied) and then the rank was then removed.

 Correct me if my memory serves wrong. Thx._

 

That's basically it, yes.


----------



## Rastek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that low gain mode yields less noise, and high current gives the amp more power.



 That's basically it, yes._

 

Hey Rob, your VU's pegging, I fear for your precious reviewer's ears


----------



## Skylab

Don't worry, I measure the levels using an SPL meter


----------



## Rastek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Don't worry, I measure the levels using an SPL meter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

Good man, you're always a step ahead.


----------



## mrdeadfolx

Thanks for the tireless effort Skylab, your review was the icing on the cake that cemented my decision to get an RSA Predator. Keep it up.


----------



## booom

wow, thank you so much for putting this HUGE review thread together. it helps so much for someone like me just getting started.


----------



## Saya

Hi, Slylab, it has been a great pleasure to read your reviews. Thank you. 
 I am wondering if you have any plan to review Graham Slee Voyeager and Go Vibe Petit given the great response I am hearing here and there.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, all. Saya, at this point I do not have plans to review either of those, but you never know


----------



## Skylab

I just added the following to the review:

*Update 3-11-08

 Mini3*

 Info: http://www.amb.org/audio/mini3/; *KIT*

 The Mini3 is a DIY amp, although it can be purchased complete from a number of sources. Vlad loaned me his completed Mini3 to review. His was nicely built into a small metal Hammond case. There were no features other than a batter charging circuit. 

*Build Quality*: n/a: this will simply depend on how the amp’s builder decides to build it. 
*Treble*: A-: Nice and smooth, and fairly neutral and transparent. Perhaps a bit soft, and lacking the very last bit of top end extension. Still very nice.
*Midrange*: A: Impressive performance in the mids. Open, inviting, and smooth. I was impressed. Female vocals like Kathleen Edwards and Goldfrapp were very well served by the Mini3’s midrange performance. 
*Bass:* A-: Plenty of bass, but it was a little loose at times. Some of the better amps offer better bass control, and a little more definition. Still, this is only in comparison to the very best.
*Neutrality:* A-: It’s just a touch warm and rolled off on top from neutral. But it sure sounds pretty! 
*Soundstaging:* B+: Soundstage depth was excellent. Image specificity was very good. Width was just good – soundstage width was not delivered in full measure by the Mini3.
*Transparency:* A-: Definitely an open, clear, generally clean, grain-free sound. Not the LAST word in resolution, but still very good.

 The Mini3 can be bought for $125 completely built from Rockhopper audio. I understand MisterX may build them as well. For that price it represents an INCREDIBLE bargain. While I feel the Meier XXS offers better overall performance, even it costs $195. So the Mini3 is a VERY easy recommendation for someone wanting a very good, inexpensive amp.


*Conclusions (3/11/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 37 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even is these amps may include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. Xin Reference
 7. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 7. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 8. Headamp AE-2
 9. Go-Vibe 7
 9. Mini3
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 11. Portaphile V2^2
 12. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 12. Mini-Box E 
 13. Storm B4
 14. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 15. Visely HEA- 1
 16. Microshar uAmp107
 16. Practical Devices XM4
 17. C&C XO
 17. iBasso T2
 18. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 19. Xtra X-1 Pro
 20. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 20. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 22. C&C Box V2
 23. Storm B3
 24. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)


----------



## (gregor)

Skylab, I was finally about to get the 2MOVE (need that DAC...) and then I saw the list was up to 37(!) Thank God it was only a badass-value DIY, lest I spend another 2 weeks in contemplative agony. But still, thanks for the sweet review. If the dismay of a girlfriend (or boyfriend) at money well spent on audio is any measure, the review has been very helpful -my lady is just shy of mad.


----------



## gr84lgamer

Skylab:

 Thanks for the very thorough reviews. I recently picked up the Meier Audio Move 2 based on your sage advice. I could not be happier. Thanks again for your advice!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys!

 Next up in the review parade: Decware ZenHead.


----------



## fdhfdy

that is a live dictionary


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdhfdy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that is a live dictionary_

 

???


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys!

 Next up in the review parade: Decware ZenHead._

 

Eagerly awaiting that one... I always liked the "Soviet" design of that underdog company's tube amps.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, when he asked me to review the portable amp, I asked for a review loaner on the tube amp. Unfortunately, they declined


----------



## kejar31

Yea, I would like to try out the tube headphone amp as well. Hey Skylab you do know Decware is located in Peoria IL right? Steve is pretty cool about coming by and checking his stuff out. At least he was a few years ago when I used to bug him. He even helped me with a rebuild of a vintage tube amp. I might stop by his place on my next visit to my hometown.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I saw that, but Peoria ain't exactly next door to me


----------



## kejar31

LOL Yea I know, I spent about six years of my life in the north Chicago subs, all while my son still lived in Peoria. I ended up making the drive back and forth from Glenview to Peoria every other week. That is, until I got the judge to force her to meet me half way, about a year later. Anyways back to the subject, I eagerly await your review on the ZenHead.


----------



## fdhfdy

come and have a look again


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdhfdy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_come and have a look again_

 

Are you trying to up your postcount so you can pull a scam in the 'for sale' forum, or something? All your posts are weird one-liners like that...


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you trying to up your postcount so you can pull a scam in the 'for sale' forum, or something? All your posts are weird one-liners like that..._

 


 Well, he is at 51 now so we will soon know. I looked and also noticed his messages are all strange one liners as well.


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, when he asked me to review the portable amp, I asked for a review loaner on the tube amp. Unfortunately, they declined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is thisd the amp you're referring to?






 That looks sexy as hell.... That amp and the other amp you mentioned in a separate thread both have the HP jack upright like that...I personally like it.


----------



## LordZero

Skylab you are going to review the govibe petite? I would like to see it reviewed in this amazing amp roundup


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is thisd the amp you're referring to?







 That looks sexy as hell.... That amp and the other amp you mentioned in a separate thread both have the HP jack upright like that...I personally like it._

 

Yeah, that's the one I tried to beg a review loaner on - no such luck...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LordZero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab you are going to review the govibe petite? I would like to see it reviewed in this amazing amp roundup_

 

At the moment, no plans to, but you never know


----------



## swoon

that decware looks so amazing. i might bite on it - though that would put my 337 or MAD HD plans on the back burner.


----------



## (gregor)

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fdhfdy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_come and have a look again_

 

Wull shucks, if I had known this (and 30 days or whatever) was all it took to get past "Junior Head-Fi'er" I would have started quoting snips from Art of War or something on day one. What was I thinking, trying to make intentional comments in a post-and-respond community? 
 Also the decware does look cool; where is he in Peoria Kejar? I am in the process of moving to Madison from StL and Peoria is _just_ close enough to the beaten path that I can justify taking some time to plug into good stuff- you know to stay fresh on a long drive...


----------



## kejar31

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *(gregor)* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wull shucks, if I had known this (and 30 days or whatever) was all it took to get past "Junior Head-Fi'er" I would have started quoting snips from Art of War or something on day one. What was I thinking, trying to make intentional comments in a post-and-respond community? 
 Also the decware does look cool; where is he in Peoria Kejar? I am in the process of moving to Madison from StL and Peoria is just close enough to the beaten path that I can justify taking some time to plug into good stuff- you know to stay fresh on a long drive..._

 

Well the last time I visited him he had a shop and it was located on Adams street, I believe (not a store front type of shop but more like a little factory). A quick note though, I haven't been there in like six or seven years because I moved out of town. Its always best to call first anyways, Steve is real friendly and very knowledgeable.


----------



## donaldekelly

Just had to say - excellent reviews. What more could anyone want - except more of the same. Answered all my questions! 

 (I realize these are his ears and not mine, but this is very helpful as a start on what to read up on).

 Thanks


----------



## thejoneser

Skylab, I'm a relative newbie to the headphone world and currently own a HeadRoom Micro amp that I purchased about a year ago. I don't see too many people mention this amp. Is it not a contender? Where do you think it would fall in your current list? Just wondering...

 Thanks for any light you can shed on this and thanks again for all the great information in this thread!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thejoneser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I'm a relative newbie to the headphone world and currently own a HeadRoom Micro amp that I purchased about a year ago. I don't see too many people mention this amp. Is it not a contender? Where do you think it would fall in your current list? Just wondering...

 Thanks for any light you can shed on this and thanks again for all the great information in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

To my ears the HR Micro Amp should be in the top 10 of Skylab's list, if that helps at all. I have one he can borrow for a review if he asks nicely


----------



## SACD-Man

I second that motion...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thejoneser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I'm a relative newbie to the headphone world and currently own a HeadRoom Micro amp that I purchased about a year ago. I don't see too many people mention this amp. Is it not a contender? Where do you think it would fall in your current list? Just wondering...

 Thanks for any light you can shed on this and thanks again for all the great information in this thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks! Unfortunately, I have never heard a Micro Amp. I asked Headroom for a loaner to review, and they declined. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To my ears the HR Micro Amp should be in the top 10 of Skylab's list, if that helps at all. I have one he can borrow for a review if he asks nicely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Larry you are so nice about that stuff. But in general, if a manufacturer declines my request for a review sample, then I don't bother to review it at all. Tyll from headroom had initially said he would send me one when they were complete, and then did not reply to my PM requesting one when they did become available. I'm sure he has his reasons, which could well be that he's too busy to bother, and I would understand that.

 I did make an exception to this with the Headamp Pico, because I really wanted to hear one. In the case of the MicroAmp, I'm sure it's a good product, but I don't have the same level of curiosity about it.


----------



## mrarroyo

I had a HeadRoom Micro Amp, one with the regular(Micro) module and the other w/ the 2006 Desktop Module. Built like a brick house and backed up by one of the best customer service and warranties available.

 But IMO it was nothing spectacular. Plus it ate batteries very fast.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a HeadRoom Micro Amp, one with the regular(Micro) module and the other w/ the 2006 Desktop Module. Built like a brick house and backed up by one of the best customer service and warranties available.

 But IMO it was nothing spectacular. Plus it ate batteries very fast._

 

I got it as a package deal with my Micro DAC, which is spectacular, and the amp is not bad at all. I wasn't going to get it at all, except I saved $90 when I added it to the DAC I bought. And, I didn't get it for battery power but as a transportable since the Micro DAC is going to replace the D1, and the matching amp was nice to have. I will be testing it with the 9.6v re-chargable batteries that HeadRoom sells, to see how long it will run or how good it sounds.

 I find it is very good, and the crossfeed is one of the best. It may not be spectacular (your words) but it is hard to find fault with it either, in my limited experience with it.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it as a package deal with my Micro DAC, which is spectacular, and the amp is not bad at all. I wasn't going to get it at all, except I saved $90 when I added it to the DAC I bought. And, I didn't get it for battery power but as a transportable since the Micro DAC is going to replace the D1, and the matching amp was nice to have. I will be testing it with the 9.6v re-chargable batteries that HeadRoom sells, to see how long it will run or how good it sounds.

 I find it is very good, and the crossfeed is one of the best. It may not be spectacular (your words) but it is hard to find fault with it either, in my limited experience with it._

 

I am glad you are enjoying yours, I did not really care for mine. Perhaps I should change the word from spectacular to "nothing to write home about". However, the Micro Dac is IMO fantastic and well worth the asking price.


----------



## musicmaker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, the Micro Dac is IMO fantastic and well worth the asking price._

 

I second this. I LOVE the micro dac. It has a beautiful warm and lush sound signature while still being detailed. I sold my D1 (after several permutations & combinations of opamps) as I found the microdac better.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am glad you are enjoying yours, I did not really care for mine. Perhaps I should change the word from spectacular to "nothing to write home about". However, the Micro Dac is IMO fantastic and well worth the asking price._

 

Maybe you got a bad one?

 Don't make me send mine with the HFI780's I am sending, just to make you listen again, but the two go well together.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you got a bad one?

 Don't make me send mine with the HFI780's I am sending, just to make you listen again, but the two go well together. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No need to send me your amp, I have also listened to tyrion's and stevio's. I plan on having the 2Move on the mail to you by Tuesday. In the package I will include a GE GL5670 tube w/ two(2) dampers for Skylab. Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Miguel!


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I will continue steadfast with my Reference. Thanks for your review Skylab even if you did come to the wrong conclusions
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. It happens to the best of us sometimes._

 

Well, given the enjoyment that I had with the Reference I have to say that with the Triple.Fi the Reference just did not cut it. I have ended up with the iQube and I have to say the Triple.Fi sings with this one. Skylab's analysis was right on the mark and this review helped me identify the amp to replace the Reference.

 Thanks again for your efforts in this thread Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, thanks for the very kind words Steve!


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, given the enjoyment that I had with the Reference I have to say that with the Triple.Fi the Reference just did not cut it. I have ended up with the iQube and I have to say the Triple.Fi sings with this one. Skylab's analysis was right on the mark and this review helped me identify the amp to replace the Reference.

 Thanks again for your efforts in this thread Skylab._

 

Yes Rob does good work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, what size cap do you have in your reference? If 15,000 or 22,000 let me know and I will send you a Panasonic 12,000 uF 10 Volts for you to replace the cap with. Of course you will have to re-burn in the amp.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes Rob does good work! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, what size cap do you have in your reference? If 15,000 or 22,000 let me know and I will send you a Panasonic 12,000 uF 10 Volts for you to replace the cap with. Of course you will have to re-burn in the amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

This 22,000 unit has already gone on to another owner when I got the iQube. Thanks.


----------



## lihao

skylab can you review the d2 viper also ? im confused whether to choose d2 or move2. thanks alot. also could any audiophiles give me their AOL or msn ? im new and needs lots of help. thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lihao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab can you review the d2 viper also ? im confused whether to choose d2 or move2. thanks alot. also could any audiophiles give me their AOL or msn ? im new and needs lots of help. thanks_

 

I offered to loan my D2 for a review, but instead Skylab's 2MOVE is on it's way to me for review. I will add my impressions to my mini review here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/min...-lyrix-306883/


----------



## Skylab

Indeed - Larry will be able to give you a nice comparison between the 2Move and the iBasso D2 very soon. I am expecting to get a Decware ZenHead in a few days, and will be focusing on that.


----------



## Solan

Impressive review -- or rather, _set_ of reviews, Skylab! If someone had a similar dedication to review stationary head-amps, and DACs, life would be much simpler. [
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]

 PS: It might be a good idea to put your concluded ranking list at the top of the review, for easy access.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Impressive review -- or rather, set of reviews, Skylab! If someone had a similar dedication to review stationary head-amps, and DACs, life would be much simpler. [
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]

 PS: It might be a good idea to put your concluded ranking list at the top of the review, for easy access._

 

Yeah, the desktop amp review hasn't been updated in a year: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f14/re...e-amps-228751/


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Impressive review -- or rather, set of reviews, Skylab! If someone had a similar dedication to review stationary head-amps, and DACs, life would be much simpler. [
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]

 PS: It might be a good idea to put your concluded ranking list at the top of the review, for easy access._

 

Thanks so much for the kind words. But I don't want to put the rankings at the top - it would just encourage people not to read the review itself.


----------



## Solan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, the desktop amp review hasn't been updated in a year: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f14/re...e-amps-228751/_

 

Thanks for the link, though. I'll study it. I am, as you probably see from a thread I started, in the market for a DAC + a headamp (possibly integrated).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Solan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link, though. I'll study it. I am, as you probably see from a thread I started, in the market for a DAC + a headamp (possibly integrated)._

 

Meier, Travagans and HeadRoom are the first desktop DAC/Amp's to come to my mind. Skylab has reviewed the first two companies products already, in other threads. You could find them with a search.


----------



## Skylab

I currently have the TTVJ Millett Hybrid and the Decware ZenHead in the house, and will be reviewing them soon


----------



## Skylab

I have just added the following to this review:

*
 Update 4/9/08
*

*> Todd the Vinyl Junkie Portable Millet Hybrid*

http://www.ttvj.com/index.php?main_p...oducts_id=1062

 I was able to listen to this amp under TTVJ’s loaner program. The PMH is of course the only portable amp with tubes in it that I am aware of. But it’s a hybrid – the tubes aren’t used to drive the headphones directly. Based on what I had read, I expected it to sound tubier than it did. But there are some sonic attributes that can probably be ascribed to the tubes. Less happily, the tubes are also likely the reason that the chassis rings very audibly through the headphones if tapped. This is really a bummer for a portable amp. It means that while it is portable, care will have to be taken while listening not to bump it, or unwanted ringing will overlay the music.


*Build Quality*: A: Very attractive and sturdy chassis. I guess I won’t subtract here for that annoying pinging…
*Treble:* A-: The treble is reasonably clean, transparent, and neutral. As I expected the amp lacks a little top end extension and air, but not nearly as much as I thought it might. I don’t think the treble is a real problem, generally, unless you try to use it with dark sounding headphones.
*Midrange: A+:* WOW. Simply gorgeous. Cliché or not, I have to assume this is due to the tube impact. But the mids were musical, lush, detailed, clean, open, and very enjoyable. The amp’s strong suite, no doubt.
*Bass: A-:* Full, punch, and fat. Perhaps a little loose. Could have a little better depth. But it was very enjoyable nonetheless.
*Neutrality: A-:* More neutral than I expected. Aside from lacking the very frequency extremes, it is essentially neutral . In fact, I was surprised to find it more neutral than the Decware Zenhead, which went through the review process at the same time. 
*Soundstaging: A:* Great depth and width, and a very palpable image. Excellent performance here.
*Transparency: A-: * Occasionally just a bit thick sounding, but generally very transparent. 

 The TTVJ PMH provides very good, and in some respect truly excellent sound. It’s generally well built. But it’s at the very top end of the price curve of portable headphone amps, and for my $450, for portable use, I’d prefer the iQube, which performs better overall and doesn’t have that very annoying pinging/ringing. It might be better to leave the tubes at home.

*Conclusions (4/9/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 38 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 8. Xin Reference
 8. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 8. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 9. Headamp AE-2
 10. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Mini3
 11. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 12. Portaphile V2^2
 13. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E 
 14. Storm B4
 15. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 16. Visely HEA- 1
 17. Microshar uAmp107
 18. Practical Devices XM4
 18. C&C XO
 18. iBasso T2
 19. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 20. Xtra X-1 Pro
 21. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 21. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 22. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 23. C&C Box V2
 24. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## kejar31

Cool thanks for the review Skylab. I look forward to seeing the review on the Zenhead.


----------



## Skylab

I am waiting for a second sample of the ZenHead. The first one sounded good, but the gain was too high.


----------



## Drexel98

Skylab...

 I cannot begin to tell you how helpful this thread has been in helping me decipher which headphone amp I'd probably find most suited to my uses. I'm still relatively new to the forum (although I read a great deal more than I post) and people with the knowledge and thoroughness like you are a beacon of hope to those of us out here whose heads are spinning from the glut of products and information out here. After a lot of reading and research, I've taken a lot of your advice to heart and I'm going with the iQube to drive my SE530's and Triple.fi 10's, and eventually probably a pair of K702s... Now, how do I explain to the wife where all of the disposable income went?!?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! Sorry I can't help you on the wallet damage


----------



## itobito

Skylab, 

 thank you very much for the reviews!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Skylab, great review. It's about time you add some Grados to your stable, for those who need to know about amp synergy with them, or are you just leaving that one up to me?


----------



## fault151

Have you tried a Graham Slee Voyager? Id love to hear how you compare it to the impressive list you have.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, great review. It's about time you add some Grados to your stable, for those who need to know about amp synergy with them, or are you just leaving that one up to me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks Larry! Yep - leaving that up to you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am just not a Grado guy. I have owned GS1000's and HF-1's, but sold them both.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fault151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried a Graham Slee Voyager? Id love to hear how you compare it to the impressive list you have._

 

So far I have not, but you never know...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Shoulda never sold those HF-1, since with flats I think they sounded almost just like my HP-1000 did. Someday post for us your thoughts on those two Grados, please?


----------



## Skylab

It's not that I dislike the SOUND - I can't stand WEARING them. I find Grados HORRIBLY uncomfortable.


----------



## BushGuy

All always better wearing with flats - there is a large psychological factor involved in deciding between bowls and flats. Both my HP-2 and MS Pro's are now wearing flats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.........I originally felt as you - but not now.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not that I dislike the SOUND - I can't stand WEARING them. I find Grados HORRIBLY uncomfortable._

 

You just have to let your ears get tougher to stand wearing them, and after a few hours a day for a few days, your ears will not hurt as much. No longer as soft as a baby's bottom will they be...


----------



## thathertz

Skylab 

 This has to be one of the all-time classic head-fi review features! 

 I'm sure there are many amps that fellow head-fiers insist are deserving of a place here but the one omission that stands out is.......The Voyager! 

 C'mon Skylab...I'm sure if you gave the word you'd have 10 Voyagers turn up on your doorstep within a couple of days. 

 You know you want to.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know there's plenty of head-fiers longing to hear Sky's impressions on the Voyager....anyone local to Sky prepared to loan one for the duration?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words. I haven't felt the need to review the Voyager since it's been reviewed extensively elsewhere.

 I am going to finish the review of the Decware Zenhead next week however.


----------



## thathertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. I haven't felt the need to review the Voyager since it's been reviewed extensively elsewhere.

 I am going to finish the review of the Decware Zenhead next week however._

 

I understand Skylab. 
 Can't blame a guy for trying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As for all your reviews, I look forward to your experience with the Zenhead.
 You should be on commission you know...

 Cheers
 Mike


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. I haven't felt the need to review the Voyager since it's been reviewed extensively elsewhere.
_

 

For that matter, most of the amps on your review have been reviewed extensively elsewhere. However, having them all together in one place with the continuity of a single reviewer's observations is where this thread holds value.

 Therefore, you should review the Voyager or any other promising competitor......unless you're sick of reviewing amps, which would be a different story altogether.


----------



## oicdn

Damn...this list keeps growing. Great job mate!!!

 I love hearing your impressions every time there's an addition.

 I would however like to see how your review of the Voyager compares to mine. Seems like we have the same opinions for the most part on amps, and it may seem a little redundant...but it'd be sweet to see anyways.

 For those curious, you can see the review of the voyager in the link in my sig....and see how my opinions ccompare to Skylabs (very similar for the most part)....


----------



## jp11801

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shoulda never sold those HF-1, since with flats I think they sounded almost just like my HP-1000 did. Someday post for us your thoughts on those two Grados, please?_

 

holy moley I have owned both and while I liked the hf1s they were a far cry from my hp2s? The woody hf1s do give modern rs1s a run for their money.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp11801* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_holy moley I have owned both and while I liked the hf1s they were a far cry from my hp2s? The woody hf1s do give modern rs1s a run for their money._

 

Well, I was keeping my OT post down in length, and left out a few details - now I have to fill it in. The secret ingredient was my particular HF-1 have the APureSound V3 cable on them, and with flats they sounded like 95% of the HP-1000. I was pretty shocked myself, because with bowls they were totally different and had more of a sucked out mids and a larger soundstage compared to both the APS re-cabled RS-2 and the HP-1000. 

 I just accidentally stumbled upon trying the flats at the end of my HF-1 vs RS-2 review, and the mids filled in and the bass got punchy. I later woodied the APS HF-1 but cracked one of the wood cups and returned them to stock for now. With woodied deep cups they sounded even better, richer and weightier.

 The first post in my review is a more accurate rendition of what I heard: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/rev...easure-292405/

 There is also a Grado Amp Synergy review in there somewhere...


----------



## tcp56

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You just have to let your ears get tougher to stand wearing them, and after a few hours a day for a few days, your ears will not hurt as much. No longer as soft as a baby's bottom will they be..._

 

Skylab, Is Yoda,er Larry on to something here? all this time I thought it was the equipment that needed to be broken in. .............Voyager.........skylab.......kind of goes together,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Thanks to my 10 year old son, speaking in Yoda this father has learned.


----------



## Skylab

OK, OK, I give in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will see if I can get my hands on a Voyager...


----------



## davidw89

If money wasn't an issue, which one would you get (best sound quality of course)


----------



## Skylab

I would get the iQube - for me, the best overall performance other than the Lisa, but the iQube is smaller, lighter, and has more than 10x the battery life of the Lisa.


----------



## musicmaker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, OK, I give in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will see if I can get my hands on a Voyager..._

 

Rob, I'll be happy to loan you my Voyager. Just PM me your mailing address and I'll send it.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would get the iQube - for me, the best overall performance other than the Lisa, but the iQube is smaller, lighter, and has more than 10x the battery life of the Lisa._

 

I could not agree more....I really enjoy my iQube with my Triple.Fi.


----------



## musicmaker

x3. I sold my Larocco PRII mkII (one of the best portable amps i've ever heard) and kept the iQube. That should say something about the iQube. It is that good.


----------



## mrarroyo

Ears are a funny thing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I much prefer the LaRocco PRII MkII over the iQube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Somehow its sound signature did not do it for me. Heck I prefer the MiniBox-E+ over the iQube.

 Before anyone shoots at me lets remember that like ice cream not everyone loves chocolate.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob, I'll be happy to loan you my Voyager. Just PM me your mailing address and I'll send it._

 

THANKS! PM sent


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ears are a funny thing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I much prefer the LaRocco PRII MkII over the iQube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Somehow its sound signature did not do it for me. Heck I prefer the MiniBox-E+ over the iQube.

 Before anyone shoots at me lets remember that like ice cream not everyone loves chocolate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Synergy is the concept that applies here... headphones + amp + source + hearing preferences.


----------



## musicmaker

I should clarify. On pure sound quality alone I prefer the Larocco PRII mkII by a *small margin*. It has the best treble of any portable amp I've heard (sorry, haven't heard the Lisa). The iQube's treble is also very very good but i find it lacks that very last bit of extension and air the PRII has. Also the bass boost on the PRII is extremely well implemented. I do miss the bass boost on the iQube sometimes. The PRII gave me that excitement factor and had a colored but beautiful sound, while the iQube amazes me with its neutrality and faithfulness to the source. Picking one over the other is a hard decision and comes down to personal preference.

 If I include other factors in the equation:
The iQube has MUCH better battery life (~100 hours). For me, this is an extremely important consideration as I purchased a portable to use on a plane during long international trips. The iQube's batteries seem to last forever. I was lucky to get 7-8 hrs on the PRII.
The iQube is smaller and lighter than the PRII.
Also from a support perspective, the iQube is backed by a solid company. I cannot say that about Larocco audio.
So while the PRII may sound slightly better, if I factor in the above, I will pick the iQube anyday over the PRII. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ears are a funny thing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I much prefer the LaRocco PRII MkII over the iQube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Somehow its sound signature did not do it for me. Heck I prefer the MiniBox-E+ over the iQube.

 Before anyone shoots at me lets remember that like ice cream not everyone loves chocolate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Synergy is the concept that applies here... headphones + amp + source + hearing preferences._

 

My source is an iModded iPod 4th Gen, the IC is either a 99.999% cryo silver by Revelation Audio and my cans range from an UE to PROline 2500 or an HFI-780 or K501. Although I use portable amps a lot most of my use is in my office and thus why I use full size cans driven by a portable amp.


----------



## thathertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, OK, I give in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will see if I can get my hands on a Voyager..._

 

Superb 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 don't think you'll have a problem getting one Sky....


----------



## thathertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmaker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob, I'll be happy to loan you my Voyager. Just PM me your mailing address and I'll send it._

 

Cheers Musicmaker!

 I love it when a plan comes together.....


----------



## Chickenman

Skylab, I've really enjoyed reading your reviews, and as a 15 year old with a limited amount of money (or in my case, begging my parents..) I decided to get a 2Move because your reviews seem to favor it and because of its competitive price. I really appreciate how you spent so much of your time and money on this ongoing review! Your rep here as a senior member also helped me make that decision!


----------



## jemsound

Skylab,

 This thread continues to be invaluable as a selection guide for those of us who haven't heard a wide range of portable amps. I'm curious about why you say you would choose the iQube if cost weren't an issue. In your review, you rate the 2Move even higher for sound quality, since the iQube got one A+ for build quality. What makes you feel the iQube is superior not considering cost?


----------



## Skylab

Actually, I don't rate the 2Move higher than the iQube for overall sound quality. I'd say overall the iQube gets the nod. Both are truly excellent, though.


----------



## jemsound

Can someone address these three questions about the 2 Move:
 1) Has anyone used it with UE Triple.fi 10 pros? How is the synergy?
 2) Have readers of this forum experienced the problems with the jacks discussed on other forums? How serious a problem is that for someone who wants to use the amp while moving around?
 3) How much larger is the 2Move comared to the iQube?
 Thanks for any resonses.


----------



## jemsound

Is the iQube powerful enough to drive K701s well? Does anyone have experience with this combination?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


 3) How much larger is the 2Move comared to the iQube? 
 

That is the only one I can answer - the iQube is about 25% bigger than the 2Move.


----------



## shinew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jemsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the iQube powerful enough to drive K701s well? Does anyone have experience with this combination?_

 

I don't know about iQube but I'm testing couple of headphones at the moment, 2move drives K701 beautifully.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jemsound* 
_2) Have readers of this forum experienced the problems with the jacks discussed on other forums? How serious a problem is that for someone who wants to use the amp while moving around?_

 

What problems? I don't have any with with er4/dt880/hd600 & k701.


----------



## shinew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Chickenman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I've really enjoyed reading your reviews, and as a 15 year old with a limited amount of money (or in my case, begging my parents..) I decided to get a 2Move because your reviews seem to favor it and because of its competitive price. I really appreciate how you spent so much of your time and money on this ongoing review! Your rep here as a senior member also helped me make that decision!_

 

I too have benefited from Skylab's review. So thank you skylab!

 Chickenman, this might not be a welcomed advised and certainly not asked. But based on your signature, you really should get a better pair of headphones first before jumping into amps. The difference in sound quality is miniscule between amps(given that they're not trying to do EQ's job) compared to different headphones.


----------



## Skylab

I think Ch1ckenman's Grado Alessandro's would scale with an amp in the mix.


----------



## Juli

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jemsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ 1) Has anyone used it with UE Triple.fi 10 pros? How is the synergy?_

 

 It would be possible to hear hiss if you use the 10s with an iQube. Maybe you will not notice it, but there is a chance of hearing the hiss.

 Cheers, 

 Juli


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jemsound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone address these three questions about the 2 Move:
 2) Have readers of this forum experienced the problems with the jacks discussed on other forums? How serious a problem is that for someone who wants to use the amp while moving around?
 Thanks for any resonses._

 

I don't like the jacks at all. They require additional insertion force and have no positive "click" when the plug seats home compared to other amps. That isn't too much of a big deal.

 However, with all of my right angle interconnects and headphones, a slight twist of the plug would cause the plug to pop out. Oddly, if you pull out on the plug, it would stay in place as it should. It's the twist motion that does it. 

 I doubt this would occur with a straight 1/8" plug as they don't normally spin when handled....but lots of people use right angle interconnects. This issue is caused by the gap between the faceplate and the jack...causing the jack to be very slightly recessed. Mine looked fine (not too recessed), but it still did it.

 Jan Meier can remedy this if you request....


----------



## Chickenman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think Ch1ckenman's Grado Alessandro's would scale with an amp in the mix._

 

That's what I've been hearing, and I'm curious what amping would do to my new q-JAYS! 

 In the future, I'm also going to upgrade and i needed a DAC so I thought this would be a good buy


----------



## jamess71

WHY isn't this thread a sticky yet? 

 Skylab have you heard a Pimeta? I'm debating building a Pimeta, mini3, or just buying a RSA amp. Any info for me? My main requirement is great sound quality. Thanks

 James


----------



## Skylab

No, afraid I haven't heard a Primeta.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WHY isn't this thread a sticky yet? 

 Skylab have you heard a Pimeta? I'm debating building a Pimeta, mini3, or just buying a RSA amp. Any info for me? My main requirement is great sound quality. Thanks

 James_

 

I had a maxed out PIMETA that was pretty nice, with a build out list that was about $160-170 in parts. But when I bought a Meier HeadFive I found the Meier was better, for the same price. I have read that a mini3 is supposed to be better than a Pimeta or a PINT, but even my RSA Predator and Pico beats my HeadFive and previous Pimeta.


----------



## jamess71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a maxed out PIMETA that was pretty nice, with a build out list that was about $160-170 in parts. But when I bought a Meier HeadFive I found the Meier was better, for the same price. I have read that a mini3 is supposed to be better than a Pimeta or a PINT, but even my RSA Predator and Pico beats my HeadFive and previous Pimeta._

 

Thanks headphoneaddict. I had a headfive and I wasn't too impressed with it. Too sterile/neutral, maybe? As you can see I could never write a review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I'm still trying to decide, but leaning towards one of RSA's ie. Tomy, Hornet, or SR-71. It seems they are in another leauge from the pimeta or mini3. Does this sound correct?


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamess71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks headphoneaddict. I had a headfive and I wasn't too impressed with it. Too sterile/neutral, maybe? As you can see I could never write a review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I'm still trying to decide, but leaning towards one of RSA's ie. Tomy, Hornet, or SR-71. It seems they are in another leauge from the pimeta or mini3. Does this sound correct?_

 

I think as the Op has indicated in their summary - "I am often forced to split hairs here" - the differences can be quite marginal, and sound signature related; I wouldn't regard them to be a whole 'league' apart.

 In many cases the synergy with other equipment will contribute. For instance I find a Panasonic Cap "Performance" Mini3 to be equivalent with an RSA SR-71 when fed direct from an iRiver H140 lineout to my Livewires T1s.

 However if I throw the opamp-rolled D1 in as a DAC from the iRiver's optical out then the SR-71 does show the improvements better (for my liking at least) than the Mini3.

 That shows up even more if I move from lossless FLAC to 320kbps MP3s.

 However, overall, it is still all quite marginal, and you might find quite differently to me, or the Op, or others.


----------



## Skylab

I just added the following to the review:

*> Decware ZenHead *

DECWARE / High Fidelity Engineering Co.

 I was asked by Decware, a maker of many high-end tube amps, to review their portable headphone amp, The ZenHead. When I received it, I was surprised about the size – it’s BIG. It’s as big as the Lisa III. It uses a 9V battery, and has no charging facility. Like the Lisa III, it’s really too big for many portable applications. Decware’s Steve Deckert said that he did not really try to keep the size down for the same reason that he didn’t include a batter charging circuit – he was going purely for the best sound he could. Certainly a good goal. However, while in the case of the Lisa III I felt the superior sonics could justify the size, the Zenhead is merely a very good, competitive sounding amp, that is really big. 

 OK, OK, but how did it sound???? Well, very good. Overall, I felt that Decware’s main business of selling tube amps shows in how the amp is voiced. It sounds like many tube amps I have heard. As such, its sound is a little idiosyncratic. I struggled some with the normal ratings I give, in terms of capturing the essence of the amp. On some tracks it sounded fantastic; on others, merely good. It sounded SO different from the iQube, my reference amp, that I had to switch back and forth multiple times to get a handle on the ZenHead’s sound. It is slightly colored. But in a very pleasant way.

*Build Quality:* A: Pretty industrial, plain looking case, but very sturdy, and solidly built. No turn on/off thump. Totally silent also – no noise at ALL. No points for style, but none deducted for cheap plastics – it’s all metal.
*Treble:* A-: Treble is quite clear. It does lack some top end air and extension, and is perhaps a tiny bit hot in the mid-treble.
*Midrange:* A-: Sometimes they were splendid, but sometimes they didn’t sound quite right to me. Most of the time they had a certain presence I associate with tube amps, but occasionally that presence wasn’t really serving the music and just sounded like a coloration. 
*Bass:* A: The bass was excellent. Full, powerful, punchy. Lacked the very last bit of depth that the iQube has, but still truly excellent.
*Neutrality:* A-*: Well, it just isn’t completely neutral sounding. Compared to the very, very neutral iQube, and also to the Meier 2Move, the ZenHead has character. Much of the time I really liked its character, but sometimes I didn’t think it was adding helpful.
*Soundstaging:* A+: The ZenHead has non-defeatable crossfeed. I found that its soundstage was deep and wide, and truly palpable. It excelled here, even better than the 2Move with the Meier crossfeed on. If you are a soundstage freak, this amp is for you.
*Transparency:* A: This was kind of tough. There wasn’t anything that made me feel the amp wasn’t transparent. Neutrality and transparency are NOT the same thing. So even though the amp really wasn’t neutral, I did think it was transparent sounding. Quite so, in fact.

 Hmmmm…so what to make of the Zenhead? Well, it won’t be for everyone, but some people might think it’s the best they ever heard. I didn’t, but you might. For me, however, at its price and size especially, I think it will warrant a careful listen for the prospective buyer.



*Conclusions (4/25/08)*


 OK, so now it’s now 39 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 7. Decware Zenhead
 8. Xin Reference
 8. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 8. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 9. Headamp AE-2
 10. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Mini3
 11. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 12. Portaphile V2^2
 13. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E 
 14. Storm B4
 15. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 16. Visely HEA- 1
 17. Microshar uAmp107
 18. Practical Devices XM4
 18. C&C XO
 18. iBasso T2
 19. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 20. Xtra X-1 Pro
 21. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 21. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 22. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 23. C&C Box V2
 24. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## Skylab

Also, while I doubt anyone will notice, I deleted the original rankings from the first phase of the review when it was just 9 amps. I has to do this in order to include the ZenHead, since apparently there is a 100,000 character limit in posts! So the upcoming review of the Graham Slee Voyager looks like it will be the last amp added to this review.


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........apparently there is a 100,000 character limit in posts! So the upcoming review of the Graham Slee Voyager looks like it will be the last amp added to this review._

 

Put a link at the bottom of the first post to another post to continue this great effort for other amps. You could also continue this on the first page if you changed your post 8 to be the link that is used to link too from the bottom of your first posts. A little messy but workable.

 But maybe you are just tired and don't want to continue this thread. This would be very understandable.


----------



## Skylab

That's a good idea. I may well do that. I am not soliciting new amps to review, but I do like to add them when people ask


----------



## GIGANTOID

Skylab, have you listened to the original Hornet and if so where might you place it within your rankings?

 I'm trying not to second guess my choice of selling it to fund a Predator. In the end your review helped swing me from the superior DAC in the Pico to the AMP in the predator as the reason for my choice.


----------



## Skylab

Sorry, never heard the original Hornet.


----------



## Lock

Hey Skylab,
 I've not heard almost every amp on your list so I'm not best placed to coment but I do own a C&C Box+ It is the successor to the V2. I noticed you comment on grainy treble and a 'noisy' amp. Not questioning your review but I've found the new V+ to be a very clean sound no audible noise even at maximum volume.

 Would be interested to hear your views if you get the chance to listen to this. Maybe C&C read your review and incorporated the improvements they made in the XO!!! cheers.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GIGANTOID* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, have you listened to the original Hornet and if so where might you place it within your rankings?

 I'm trying not to second guess my choice of selling it to fund a Predator. In the end your review helped swing me from the superior DAC in the Pico to the AMP in the predator as the reason for my choice._

 

I've been comparatively listening to a few portables myself (using FLAC-iRiver H140 lineout-silver mini-2-mini-AMP-Livewires T1s).

 I have not heard a well burned in Pred (yet) but believe others who consider it up to the SR-71.

 I find the SR-71 above the Pico (either using its DAC or just as an amp) and both a bit above the Hornet (non-M) (as opposed to the true original Hornet of which only 100 or so were made, a number of which have since been converted to Hornet Ms).

 Hope that helps.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Skylab, did you ever get to audition the HeadRoom Total AirHead? I searched this massive thread, and found a few references to it, but it doesn't seem that you got to try one out. I have an '04 model Total AirHead (from back when they offered the "Total" option with upgraded caps/resistors, etc. over the regular AirHead), and have been quite happy with it. After reading your review here, I'm thinking of moving on up to the Corda 2Move, as it has the crossfeed that I've grown to love on my TAH. If you're interested, I can lend you my '04 model for an extended listening session, if you'd care to give it a review, since others have expressed interest in this amp. Just let me know...shoot me a PM either way, and I'd be happy to send it your way.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Skylab,
 I've not heard almost every amp on your list so I'm not best placed to coment but I do own a C&C Box+ It is the successor to the V2. I noticed you comment on grainy treble and a 'noisy' amp. Not questioning your review but I've found the new V+ to be a very clean sound no audible noise even at maximum volume.

 Would be interested to hear your views if you get the chance to listen to this. Maybe C&C read your review and incorporated the improvements they made in the XO!!! cheers._

 

All people hear things differently. And it's quite possible the box plus is better.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, did you ever get to audition the HeadRoom Total AirHead? I searched this massive thread, and found a few references to it, but it doesn't seem that you got to try one out. I have an '04 model Total AirHead (from back when they offered the "Total" option with upgraded caps/resistors, etc. over the regular AirHead), and have been quite happy with it. After reading your review here, I'm thinking of moving on up to the Corda 2Move, as it has the crossfeed that I've grown to love on my TAH. If you're interested, I can lend you my '04 model for an extended listening session, if you'd care to give it a review, since others have expressed interest in this amp. Just let me know...shoot me a PM either way, and I'd be happy to send it your way._

 

Thanks for the kind offer, but I will pass. Headroom had initially told me they would send me a microamp to review when it came out, and then when it actually did come out, they ignored my PM asking to get a review sample. So I assume this means they have no desire for me to review their stuff.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind offer, but I will pass. Headroom had initially told me they would send me a microamp to review when it came out, and then when it actually did come out, they ignored my PM asking to get a review sample. So I assume this means they have no desire for me to review their stuff._

 

I can understand that, lol...don't know whey they WOULDN'T want you to review it, unless they were afraid of how it would stack up vs. some of the other heavy hitters on your list. Still, if you're interested in just hearing it for yourself, let me know. It's a fun little box. I got the clear version too, which is pretty funny...you can see the PCB, but it's slightly opaque, so it's hard to make out what's in there. My only knocks on it in terms of quality are that they are plastic (obviously...I've yet to see a transparent metal, lol), the power and crossfeed switches are tiny, and the volume control is noisy (they said that it's on purpose, because there's no resisitors in the path). Also, the input is on the bottom corner of the unit, and the two output jacks are on the top corners, making for some awkward bends in the cable. I have a 6" Cardas cable with angled jacks, and it barely makes it from the top headphone jack on my Zen Xtra to the input on the amp.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, the input is on the bottom corner of the unit, and the two output jacks are on the top corners, making for some awkward bends in the cable._

 

Yet those two output jacks on the Bithead/Airhead range are the only dual output I've come across - double edged sword that allows you to share your music with a friend, if only their preferred volume with their headphones matches your preference with yours.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, while I doubt anyone will notice, I deleted the original rankings from the first phase of the review when it was just 9 amps. I has to do this in order to include the ZenHead, since apparently there is a 100,000 character limit in posts! So the upcoming review of the Graham Slee Voyager looks like it will be the last amp added to this review._

 

A mod may be willing to interject a post for you.


----------



## GIGANTOID

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find the SR-71 above the Pico (either using its DAC or just as an amp) and both a bit above the Hornet (non-M) (as opposed to the true original Hornet of which only 100 or so were made, a number of which have since been converted to Hornet Ms).

 Hope that helps._

 

Thanks for the information. 

 My (former) Hornet was a non-M version. And IIRC the M modification was an attempt to make the hornet come close to the SR-71 sound although I haven't heard either of those nor the Tomahawk.


----------



## Chickenman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A mod may be willing to interject a post for you._

 






 ask for this skylab! Even though I only have the 2Move, I really enjoy reading your reviews for fun! and you recommendation of the 2Move was a great one for me as I'm realizing how great music truly is!


----------



## Skylab

I have just added the following to the review:

*> Graham Slee Voyager *

Voyager Portable Headphone Amplifier - A New Headphone Amplifier by Graham Slee

 A Head-fier was kind enough to loan me a Graham Slee Voyager to test, since a lot of people had asked me about it. The Voyager is highly regarded in many head-fi circles, and indeed, it deserves some of this praise. It has some very good qualities.
 One thing that it doesn’t have is good looks. It looks cheap as hell compared to any other headphone amp over $200, and at $350, one has to hope that there are a heck of a lot of high quality parts inside, because the cheap plastic case is pretty lame. 
 It has a “Contour” switch, which increases bass and treble. I have no use for such things, but some people might. Having a USB power option is kind of handy (it does not contain a DAC though).

 In terms of sound, it was a very good overall performer with no real glaring weaknesses, but no earth-shattering areas of performance either.

*Build Quality: B-*: See above. Also, it pops loudly when powered up. The slider power switch is pretty cheesy too. Really uninspiring build quality, especially for the price. About the best thing I can say about it is that it probably would survive being dropped without incident.
*Treble: A-*: Generally clean and clear. Good detail, but perhaps just a bit too much sheen. 
*Midrange: A-*: Again, generally clean and transparent, with no obvious coloration. Still, in direct comparison to the iQube, the mids of the Voyager are not as transparent. In fact, the mods of the 2Move are more transparent and open sounding than the Voyager’s. Still, it offers generally very good performance here, and female vocals were very pleasantly reproduced.
*Bass: A*: The bass was excellent. Like the Decware Zenhead, if has full, powerful, and punchy bass. It too lacked the very last bit of depth that the iQube has, but still very good excellent.
*Neutrality: A:* Generally very neutral. Impressively so, in fact. Only the slight treble emphasis subtracts here, and it’s not a big deal.
*Soundstaging: A:* Convincing image stability, and reasonable width combined with excellent depth give it a good score here.
*Transparency: A-:* Perhaps this is where there is a little failing – there seems to be kind of a gauze through which one hears the music – slight, but there. It prevented me from becoming fully engaged with the music in many instances.

 So, I think the Voyager is a very good amp that is overpriced for what it delivers and how it’s packaged. It would be terrific in a nice metal case for $250. At $350 in a cheap plastic case, it’s simply impossible to recommend.


 Conclusions (4/28/08)


 OK, so now it’s now 40 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 7. Decware Zenhead
 8. Xin Reference
 8. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 8. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 9. Headamp AE-2
 9. Graham Slee Voyager
 10. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Mini3
 11. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 12. Portaphile V2^2
 13. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E 
 14. Storm B4
 15. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 16. Visely HEA- 1
 17. Microshar uAmp107
 18. Practical Devices XM4
 18. C&C XO
 18. iBasso T2
 19. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 20. Xtra X-1 Pro
 21. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 21. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 22. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 23. C&C Box V2
 24. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued) 

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## Skylab

*MODS:* If you see this post, can you please add a new post #2 for me??? Thanks! I truly cannot add to the Review at this point - I have trimmed as much as I am comfortable trimming. Thanks!


----------



## chadbang

Interesting review on the Graham Slee Voyager. Some people proclaimed it as the second coming. Apparently it's good, but not THAT good. Or at least that's my take on your experience with the amp. People were saying it had this extraordinary, 3-D soundstaging. Did you notice anything so out of this world about its imaging?


----------



## thathertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting review on the Graham Slee Voyager. Some people proclaimed it as the second coming. Apparently it's good, but not THAT good. Or at least that's my take on your experience with the amp. People were saying it had this extraordinary, 3-D soundstaging. Did you notice anything so out of this world about its imaging?_

 


 I think you'll find most people are generally more favourable of the Voyager. 
 Not that Skylab's review is inaccurate, it's just his opinion. 
 And before I get flamed, I am not being critical of Skylab in any way, 
 I get alot of enjoyment from reading his reviews. 

 Please read OICDN's review and Miguel's also. 

 I own the Lisa III XP and the Voyager. 
 The Voyager with the contour switch turned on is much more engaging than 
 the Lisa which seems almost muddy in comparison. Of course, listening with
 the contour switch on will be too much for some listening tastes. 

 You really should try it for yourself given the opportunity. 

 I didn't want to compare the two as I've only recently 
 acquired the Lisa .....but I can't help going back to the Voyager 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't imagine the sound of the Lisa will alter that much after burn-in
 but we'll see. Perhaps it's my cans (Ultrasone 750's)....


----------



## Skylab

I did comment I thought the Voyager's soundstaging was excellent - especially depth and image specificity. 

 Also, I think my assessment of the Voyager is very similar to Mrarroyo's, especially if you look at the rankings. Oicdn I think may have rated it higher. I was a littleless impressed, but indeed, it is of course my opinion only!


----------



## kostalex

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I'm thinking of moving on up to the Corda 2Move, as it has the crossfeed that I've grown to love on my TAH ..._

 

Do not think, just move to 2Move 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I owned TAH, TBH and Move. Move beats TAH/TBH in any terms, especially in crossfeed quality. The only thing I like more with TAH/TBH is build. Their ergonomic is superior.


----------



## Ko Nectic Jazz

Hi Skylab,

 I would like to thank you for this humongous review. 
 It helped me very much to figure out which amp would the best bargain for my wallet capacity.

 Your observation on the Corda 2move DAC improvement added to the nice comments you did for the Move convinced me to try and get a 2move (once I'll have sold my portaphile to get some cash) ;-P ). 

 You've done a lot for many of us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you again. 


 Adrien


----------



## ZenTriode

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just added the following to the review:

*> Decware ZenHead *

DECWARE / High Fidelity Engineering Co.

 I was asked by Decware, a maker of many high-end tube amps, to review their portable headphone amp, The ZenHead. When I received it, I was surprised about the size – it’s BIG. It’s as big as the Lisa III. It uses a 9V battery, and has no charging facility. Like the Lisa III, it’s really too big for many portable applications. 
_

 






 The exact size of the ZenHead is 1 inch x 3 inch x 5 inch. That would make it about an inch smaller than the Lisa III (in it's smallest chassis) as far as I can tell. It might not seem like much of a difference but the ZenHead is similar in size to a pack of cigarettes, being about an inch longer. That makes it easy to put in your shirt pocket, where if it were the size of the Lisa III the center of gravity would be too high to ensure it stays in there. The 5 inch length of the ZenHead was chosen to place the volume knob just above the pocket making it easy to operate without having to dig for it.

 I realize there is a real fascination for seeing how small headphone amps can be made... but you could also make a cigarette lighter the size of a bottle cap and it only becomes more difficult to use. 

 I appreciate the time and expertise involved in your review and found it to be spot on pretty much across the board.

 Respectfully,

 Steve Deckert/DECWARE


----------



## acidtripwow

Wow, the Voyager is at #9. I have heard a few of the amps on the list and I would put it at #1 of the amps I've heard. It seems to work really well with my Klipsch Custom 3s. My one complaint is that it's very big and heavy. Skylab is right about the looks. It is a rather plain looking amp. If I could put it inside a Pico enclosure then it would be a fantastic amp and not just a great one.


----------



## eeerie1

Skylab, just in case you haven't heard this enough, thanks for this awesome review!!! It is a tremendous help for headphone amp newbies like myself!


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do not think, just move to 2Move 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I owned TAH, TBH and Move. Move beats TAH/TBH in any terms, especially in crossfeed quality. The only thing I like more with TAH/TBH is build. Their ergonomic is superior._

 

Well, I just dumped cash on a pair of Senn HD650's, and a Little Dot MKV amp...next up is a DAC and interconnects, and after that will be a portable amp. Torn between the 2Move and the Pico now. Everyone has great things to say about the Pico. Does the Pico have crossfeed?


----------



## guzziguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Golden Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I just dumped cash on a pair of Senn HD650's, and a Little Dot MKV amp...next up is a DAC and interconnects, and after that will be a portable amp. Torn between the 2Move and the Pico now. Everyone has great things to say about the Pico. Does the Pico have crossfeed?_

 

The Pico does not have crossfeed.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eeerie1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, just in case you haven't heard this enough, thanks for this awesome review!!! It is a tremendous help for headphone amp newbies like myself!_

 

Thanks!!!!


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *guzziguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico does not have crossfeed._

 

Well, that tips it back in favor of the Corda then. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *acidtripwow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, the Voyager is at #9. I have heard a few of the amps on the list and I would put it at #1 of the amps I've heard. It seems to work really well with my Klipsch Custom 3s. My one complaint is that it's very big and heavy. Skylab is right about the looks. It is a rather plain looking amp. If I could put it inside a Pico enclosure then it would be a fantastic amp and not just a great one._

 

I've never heard a voyager,but some others rate it as number 1 in their reviews.
 some people rely on others reviews,but I rely on my own ears.I don't know how old the reviewer is, but they say a person usually loses some hearing the older one gets.


----------



## Skylab

I am 41. However, I have had my hearing tested, and it's excellent. I can still hear 20kHz tones. I have no measurable hearing loss. So while you may not agree with my review, you cannot blame my hearing


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am 41._

 

Whew...there's someone around here older than me!


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am 41._

 

Whew...there's someone around here younger than me!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, I have had my hearing tested, and it's excellent. I can still hear 20kHz tones. I have no measurable hearing loss._

 

That's good. I respect those of us who have looked after the one part of the chain that you can't raise the performance of once it's lost that performance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So while you may not agree with my review, you cannot blame my hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure, only natural we're not all going to agree 100% with another person's impressions/opinions. But what you write IS well written, well researched and well documented.

 VERY much appreicated, Skylab.


----------



## keiron99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did comment I thought the Voyager's soundstaging was excellent - especially depth and image specificity. _

 

What is "image specificity"?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am 41. However, I have had my hearing tested, and it's excellent. I can still hear 20kHz tones. I have no measurable hearing loss. So while you may not agree with my review, you cannot blame my hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not saying that I disagree with your review.I was making a statement to acidtripwow,more,or less to trust his own ears,he may hear something different then you,or I.If we all heard the same,we would all own the same amp.
 I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression.


----------



## oicdn

Wow...I woulda thought that you thought higher of the Voyager. IMO it's one of the better amps out there, if not the best. You're right about the casing ans everything else being cheapy...

 Alas, even in the extremely competitive portable market, atleast it's in the top 10, lol. So that in itself is something worth stating.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not saying that I disagree with your review.I was making a statement to acidtripwow,more,or less to trust his own ears,he may hear something different then you,or I.If we all heard the same,we would all own the same amp.
 I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression._

 

No worries at all - and yes, everyone should ALWAYS trust their own ears!


----------



## chadbang

Back to the Voyager, so when the contour switch is engaged there's both a boost in bass and treble? I thought it was only a bass boost. So how badly does it brighten the sound? 

 Also, another reviewer said the Voyager was about "Bass, bass, bass, full mind and more bass" I don't get that impression from your review. Is it, saw, darker than a RS-71? It sounds like a bright amp from your description of possessing a treble emphasis. Not what I expected to hear.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the Voyager, so when the contour switch is engaged there's both a boost in bass and treble? I thought it was only a bass boost. So how badly does it brighten the sound?_

 

I honestly did not use it that much - I don't really like such things. Someone who owns one will have to comment.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, another reviewer said the Voyager was about "Bass, bass, bass, full mind and more bass" I don't get that impression from your review. Is it, saw, darker than a RS-71? It sounds like a bright amp from your description of possessing a treble emphasis. Not what I expected to hear._

 

I said the Voyager had "full, powerful, and punchy bass". I also said the treble had a little extra sheen, but that doesn't really make it bright, just a little sizzle that shouldn't necessarily be there.


----------



## Navyblue

Skylab,

 Thanks for the tremendous efforts, this will no doubt help a lot of people, myself included.

 I have some questions.

 I didn't want to amp my portable at the expense of portability, but I was recently impressed with the size of the iBasso T1/T2.

 You mentioned that you prefer T1 over T2, but you rank the T2 higher. What is it that makes T2 better than T1?

 I was told by a local shop that T2 is no more powerful than T1. The difference is the T2 comes with magnetic shielding, gain switch and of course, different sound signature. So it seems that it is more of a matter of preference than general superiority?

 I am using a Sony NWZ-A816 and an Etymotic ER-4P. The ER-4P sounds better and fuller when plugged into my Rotel preamp and my external sound card. So it seems that it is begging for more power.

 I once had a chance of driving my Sony EX70 with the T1, it get loud enough but didn't go insanely loud with such a low impedance phone. I wonder if it has enough juice for my ER-4P? Also if the T1/T2 is significantly more powerful than my Sony DAP?

 I want a neutral and transparent sound, may be with a tad warmer midrange. With the phone out of my Sony DAP my ER-4P sounds a tad harsh and cold for me. Would the T1 or the T2 help? and Which would suits me better?

 Wow what a long questions.


----------



## Skylab

I never had the T1 and T2 at the same time, and nowhere in the review do I say I like the T1 better. There are ways in which I felt the T1 might have been better (like being more neutral). Some may prefer the warmer sound of the T2 though, and based on your post, you might be one of them.

 That said, going with a RSA Tomahawk or Meier XXS will really not diminish portability and will provide FAR better sound.


----------



## thathertz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the Voyager, so when the contour switch is engaged there's both a boost in bass and treble? I thought it was only a bass boost. So how badly does it brighten the sound? 

 Also, another reviewer said the Voyager was about "Bass, bass, bass, full mind and more bass" I don't get that impression from your review. Is it, saw, darker than a RS-71? It sounds like a bright amp from your description of possessing a treble emphasis. Not what I expected to hear._

 

The contour switch on the Voyager does indeed seem to boost low frequencies and higher ranges also
 but the sound seems much more 'balanced' due to this. Compare this to turning the bass boost on 
 the Lisa - the sound just gets progressively flooded with bass. I'm not bashing the Lisa here, 
 the Lisa is a great amp and it's bass control does just what it was designed to do. 
 The contour on the Voyager works differently and produces a much punchier, impactful bass.

 It's hard to explain and do the sound justice - you really need to hear it.

 To be honest, for my ears, OICDN described the Voyager beautifully.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chadbang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the Voyager, so when the contour switch is engaged there's both a boost in bass and treble? I thought it was only a bass boost. So how badly does it brighten the sound? 

 Also, another reviewer said the Voyager was about "Bass, bass, bass, full mind and more bass" I don't get that impression from your review. Is it, saw, darker than a RS-71? It sounds like a bright amp from your description of possessing a treble emphasis. Not what I expected to hear._

 

The Contour switch, is located on the right hand side of the amp in front of the USB port (power only). This particular Contour switch uses the Fletcher-Munson curve. You can read more about it in places like: Fletcherâ€“Munson curves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or at Fletcher-Munson Curve Explanation

 Personally I find that the Contour switch will appeal to the bassheads and for some headphones it might add a sense of bass if the can is known for lacking bass. For example it is useful at times w/ the AKG K501. But even in the K501 it can become overpowering in high volumes or w/ certain recordings. I do not use it much but some of you may love it.


----------



## fkclo

The contour switch was meant to cater for on-the-road listening with normal ear phones to compensate for possible interference of surrounding noise by putting more emphasis on certain frequencies. If one read the manual of the Voyager, actually Graham Slee recommends NOT to use this switch when you are listening through a high-end headphone and in a quiet environment. This will give a flatter response.

 I have been listening to the Voyager for some time, and honestly I only listened with the contour switch on for less than 30 minutes. That's all. Fo the rest of the time, I have the switch in off position.

 The Voyager is one very capable portable amp. Regardless what the reviews say I think it is one of the best portable amps out there in the market. It does take a very long time to settle down and mine has over 700 hours before I feel it is right.

 I also don't think it is meaningful to compare the Voyager to the likes of Xin Reference, iQube, or LISA III and others. The fact is they have different characters with different headphones and music types. I have a hard time deciding which one to keep (I own the Reference, Voyager, iQube, LISA III at the same time) but at the end the Voyager is one of the amps I intend to keep.

 FWIW.
 F. Lo


----------



## jerryneyk

Great review! 

 My amp is a Crossroads Amp (never seen this in print or on the net) which I purchased at Jaben in Singapore when I was on a business trip there. Jaben by the way is amazing, lucky people in Singapore they have tons of portable and tube amps, lots of headphones. It's cramped and chaotic and the young guys running around really seem to have no clue of what's going on but they are good guys and I wish I could go there to upgrade and thank them.

 Anyway I bought the Headphonia Lyrix as I thought the Crossroads was not that good because it was like only 40 Euros or something (85 Singapore dollars). However the Crossroads was very lush and full sounding while the Lyrix for my taste was way too neutral so I sent it back for a refund. Robert from Headphonia requested a look at this amp, I loant it to him and he said it was basically a CMOY amp and I should upgrade to a better headphone. I am happy though with the crossroads and will keep it. 

 So anyway if you do get to try a Crossroads, do so, I am curious to see what others think of it, even if it's not a popular brand (but maybe a popular design).


----------



## nismohks

EXCELLENT EXCELLENT review Skylab

 was just wondering whether the price difference between the Corda XXS and the 2Move is worth it?

 i am stuck between the XXS/Headsix and the 2Move.

 I am going to use it with my UE sf5p and am looking to get a set of AKGK701 or Beyer DT880 in the future as well. Will either of the Meier amps power these sufficiently from an ipod classic?

 Anyway, is the extra cash for the 2Move worth it? I am not sure how much the crossfeed will mean for me, so can you please just give me a few tips and pointers on what it does?

 I listen to normal pop music and RnB music so nothing out of the ordinary. I just heard that the crossfeed is beneficial for older distinct STEREO music?

 Please give me a few suggestions. 

 Thanks for your time


----------



## keiron99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keiron99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is "image specificity"?_

 

Anyone?


----------



## Skylab

@ nismohks: Thanks! I find that crossfeed does enhance headphone imaging. I personally find that the 2Move sounds just enough better to make the price difference worth it, but the XXS is very good, and if the extra money is a stretch, then I would just go with that.

 @ keiron99: I was too involved in work this week to keep up on the forums, sorry about that! I define "image specificity" as how solid and believable the stereo soundstage is. A stable image will have clearly defined instruments that can be placed easily in the soundstage and that this does not erode as the music changes.


----------



## nismohks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ nismohks: Thanks! I find that crossfeed does enhance headphone imaging. I personally find that the 2Move sounds just enough better to make the price difference worth it, but the XXS is very good, and if the extra money is a stretch, then I would just go with that._

 

That is good to hear. I just want to justify what i am spending thats all.

 Is the 2Move powerful enough to drive big cans such as the AKG701 or Beyer DT880 or something similar? I want to be able to use the amp as a multipurpose unit of sorts until i save enough for a home amp.

 For the crossfeed, i see there are 2 settings. What do they mean?

 Also, what is the best way to burn in amps? Can i just plug it into a pc (so i dont have to buy countless batteries just to do this) and feed music into it for days on end? Do i also need to plug in headphones?

 Once again thanks a lot. Your help is much appreciated!


----------



## Skylab

The 2Move has 2 gain settings, so it will have enough power to drive headphones like that, to the extent any battery-powered portable will (home amps will always do a better job with big cans like that).

 The crossfeed settings are on and off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I use music to burn in audio gear.


----------



## nismohks

but i will still notice a considerable difference between using the amp and not using the amp for big cans from my ipod correct?

 How much difference (or should i say what can be experienced) by turning it on?

 Does using USB power make the sound quality decrease? i ask because you can only get 5V from the USB compared to the 9V with the battery.

 So i take it the easiest way to burn in is just use a pc, plug it in, music and let it go for a few days?

 Thanks for your patience to noobs like me


----------



## Skylab

1. Yes
 2. Only you can answer that
 3. Yes
 4. Yes
 5.


----------



## Lorddotm

whats good amp for denon ah-d2000's

 for about 150 tops


----------



## Skylab

In that price range you might try the GoVibe 7, Leckerton Audio, or if you can, find a Meier Headsix or XXS used.


----------



## Geir

As a beginner, I am not very happy with this compilation as it provides too much info. A poor beginner in this hobby can get overwhelmed. How I wish that"product A is slightly different than product B, and they are both outdone by product C to thrice the price"
 Anyhow, I guess based on what I have read here, going for a Meier 2Move or an Ibasso D1/D2 or a Tomahawk, one does not go very wrong.
 I do appreciate someone taking the time and effort to create a thread like this. Thanks


----------



## sghound

keep up the good work SKY!!


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Geir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As a beginner, I am not very happy with this compilation as it provides too much info. A poor beginner in this hobby can get overwhelmed. How I wish that"product A is slightly different than product B, and they are both outdone by product C to thrice the price"
 Anyhow, I guess based on what I have read here, going for a Meier 2Move or an Ibasso D1/D2 or a Tomahawk, one does not go very wrong.
 I do appreciate someone taking the time and effort to create a thread like this. Thanks _

 

You're absolutely correct: I own the 2Move and the Tomahawk and have heard the iBasso D2 thanks to Mrarroyo and can tell you for the money, any of these three would be a wise purchase. Check the F/S forums and buy used or go for new. Any one of the three will serve you well.


----------



## Jaume

...Listening was done with the levels matched to within 1db using a RS SPL meter said:
			
		

> Level-matching ¡¡¡ 1 db !!!, please Skylab more technical seriousness. Ideally, playback level is 0.1 or max. 0.2 db. Level-matching is crucial. Slight level differences between products can lead to the wrong conclusion. The ear's sensitivity to bass and treble increases disproportionately with volume. It is to say, we hear more bass and treble when the music is loud. If amp A is played louder than amp B, amp A may sound brighter, more detailed, more forward, more dynamic, and have more bass. If amp A has a soft treble, lacks detail and has a lean bass balance. if the level is not exact, these differences we will not be able to detect them.


----------



## Skylab

Jaume:

 A couple comments:

 1. It's impossible to guarantee matched levels using an SPL meter to be more accurate than 1db. In fact, they may be - I use pink noise to get the SPL meter level to exactly 80db. So they are matched to a tighter tolerance than 1db *if* you believe the meter has that level of accuracy. I'm not sure it does, so I take a more conservative approach in making my claim. In any case, to get a more guaranteed accurate level match would require using a volt meter and a very tricky measurement technique, which I have no interest in. 

 2. In general, I believe 1db is plenty accurate enough. Volume deviations lower than that will not have any effect on long-term listening tests. I am very aware that changes in volume impact our perception on sound, which is why I match levels. But I do not think changes lower than 1db are relevant.

 3. As far as I know, most of the other people who regularly review amps on this site do not make *any* attempt to match levels.

 4. If 1db is not a close enough level match for you, you are under no obligation to use my review. However, I believe I have matched levels as closely as is reasonably practical.


----------



## monolith

Jaume;4197835 said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by * ...Listening was done with the levels matched to within 1db using a RS SPL meter, so that the listening volume level was identical with each amp....QUOTE*
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Monolith. I'm sure that people who have never actually done it do not realize what a PITA it is to match levels. But for me, it is a critical part of the amp review process. It's impossible to nail down the differences otherwise.


----------



## mrarroyo

I do use a dB meter to match when I review. I find that using my ears gets me almost as close as the meter does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But it really does not matter what each person does or does not, there will be some who do not want to believe and attack. Sometimes because they do not have anything to say.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do use a dB meter to match when I review. I find that using my ears gets me almost as close as the meter does. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it really does not matter what each person does or does not, there will be some who do not want to believe and attack. Sometimes because they do not have anything to say. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Excellent, and I agree with you, Miguel


----------



## tk3

I use a cheap SPL meter also to level match, and mostly to confirm to myself that I'm not listening too loud.

 I find reviews or comparisons between items that aren't level matched are highly unreliable, because in my experience even a relatively small increase of 2-3 dB drastically changes the sound.
 I always wonder when people compare gear if they aren't just hearing the difference in volume, and not actual sound quality, especially when there are those mythical "night and day differences". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 For this reason alone, I wish I had a stepped attenuator on my amp instead, but oh well.

 Since Skylab _is_ doing fairly accurate level matching when reviewing, I don't see what the big deal is.


----------



## Drag0n

Off with his head!!! Let it be known throughout all the Head-Fi Kingdom that Skylab doesnt keep matching below 0.0001db! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jude call the gaurds!

 Personally i think he reviews well, and pretty neutral for a ((((BASSHEAD))))


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tk3* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since Skylab is doing fairly accurate level matching when reviewing, I don't see what the big deal is._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally i think he reviews well, and pretty neutral for a ((((BASSHEAD)))) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have to agree. The variety of reviewers all do a very good job and approach it as professionally as possible given what time they have and the ability of the SPL meters to level match.

 Keep up the good (very good IMHO) work, portable amp reviewers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

This is the meter I use RadioShack.com - Home Entertainment: Accessories: Audio accessories: Sound meters: Digital-Display Sound-Level Meter

 I bought it originally to test the volume levels of different suppressed firearms, to verify they were hearing safe - I would velcro it to my rt shoulder, so I knew what the SPL was at the ear, but I don't think it was particularly well suited to that endeavor.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I looked up my specs, and my meter is only a +/- 2db at 114 db spl. So I could repeat the test producing a consistent 114db noise each time and get anything between 112-116 on the readout.

 I don't know if it is better or the same at 80db, but that means it "could" read 80 when it is as low as 78 or as high as 82db. 

 However, If I have two amps reading 80, but they are really 4db apart, I KNOW I CAN hear the difference, and typically I can hear a 1-2db difference. So, my ears tell me if works better than the specs say it does.

 Battery.........................................9-volt Alkaline 
 Microphone.........................Electret Condenser 
 Range......................................50 dB to 126 dB 
 Accuracy............................± 2 dB at 114 dB SPL 
 Reference...................0 dB = 0.0002 Micro Bar 
 Weighting......................................... ....A and C 
 Display Response......................Fast and Slow 
 Signal Output: 
 Voltage...................1 Volt Peak-Peak Min. 
 (Open Circuit, Full Scale at 1 kHz) 
 Impedance..............10 Kilohms Min. Load 
 Distortion..............Less than 2% at 1 kHz. 
 0.5 V p-p Output 
 (Input: Mic Out, Output: 10 Kohm)


----------



## Skylab

From what I have read, the analog RS SPL meter is more accurate than the digital one. But heck, ANY attempt to level match is better than no attemp


----------



## oicdn

Of the 4 times I've used an SPL meter, I was within 2 db of each other (according to the SPL meter of course), just as mrarroyo is. 

 So, incidentally, I stopped using it. 

 Who really cares if the SPL meter is used? If you can audibly tell the difference that the SPL meter is 4dB off, why even use it? Or is it for peace of mind more than anything else?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of the 4 times I've used an SPL meter, I was within 2 db of each other (according to the SPL meter of course), just as mrarroyo is. 

 So, incidentally, I stopped using it. 

 Who really cares if the SPL meter is used? If you can audibly tell the difference that the SPL meter is 4dB off, why even use it? Or is it for peace of mind more than anything else?_

 

All my post was saying was "what if" hypothetical stuff. I haven't heard an audible difference when the meter says they are all 80db - so that means they must be within 1 db, otherwise I could hear it. It just I believe that the published specs of my meter look worse than what I am actually getting, and worse than what Skylabs meter can do.

 When I do an amp review, I will usually listen to see what volume sounds good with a particular song and headphone, then make sure the other amps drive it similarly by volume matching. Doing headphone reviews is tricker. One headphone may have a sweet spot at one volume, but the sweet spot of headphone #2 may be at a different volume. For example, my RS-1 or Edition 9 sound great at 80db, but I find that I sometimes crank the D2000 up to 85-90 to enjoy them more and have them sound more exciting. So, a review at 90db may have the RS-1 drilling into my head and the D2000 being Godly; and a review at 80db may have the RS-1 roxking, and the D2000 putting me to sleep.

 As for peace of mind, I just happened to have an SPL meter around, so I used it a few times for amplifier and headphone reviews. It didn't do such a good job with my other task that I bought it for, since my suppressed 9mm is 126 db and that is the upper limit of my SPL meter (unsuppressed is a published 160 db!)


----------



## unique_loy

thank you for this review,it's really a amazing reveiw.useful.


----------



## unique_loy

i'd like to thank you again for this review. 
 everytime when I read it/


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad it helped


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I do an amp review, I will usually listen to see what volume sounds good with a particular song and headphone, then make sure the other amps drive it similarly by volume matching. Doing headphone reviews is tricker. One headphone may have a sweet spot at one volume, but the sweet spot of headphone #2 may be at a different volume. For example, my RS-1 or Edition 9 sound great at 80db, but I find that I sometimes crank the D2000 up to 85-90 to enjoy them more and have them sound more exciting. So, a review at 90db may have the RS-1 drilling into my head and the D2000 being Godly; and a review at 80db may have the RS-1 roxking, and the D2000 putting me to sleep._

 

Ahhhhh...that makes perfect sense now...it just seemed kinda weird that people were able to differentiate the small increments and they STILL used the meter...


----------



## gooky

I wanted to thank you for the large review. For someone who has never owned a portable headphone amplifier before, your review played a large part in my decision to get the 2MOVE. I enjoy using it a lot, but I wonder if I need a different mini to mini cable. I assume since you used so many amplifiers, that you have also seen many different cables; would it be a good idea to invest in another one? I'm not an extravagant person, but since I paid so much for a amplifier, (to my thinking) it wouldn't make sense to not get the most out of them. And the cable that came with the 2MOVE seems sort of dinky, compared to the cables they sell separately. I don't know, maybe it's just snake oil. I'm sorry if you covered this before, but I used search for mini, and after 12 pages I couldn't find a mention of this subject, on this thread. Thanks again for the review.


----------



## Skylab

If you are using the 2Move with an iPod, an integrated LOD (Line Out Dock) cable is the way to go. I like the ones from ALO (head-fi sponsor).


----------



## alex1pdx

I also wanted to add my thanks to Skylab and all the others who reviewed the various portable amps on this thread. I received my 2Move two days ago and I've been enjoying it immensely.


----------



## gooky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are using the 2Move with an iPod, an integrated LOD (Line Out Dock) cable is the way to go. I like the ones from ALO (head-fi sponsor)._

 

Thanks, what about players other than iPod? Do you have any take on them? I'll confess, I was looking at the Cardas mini to mini... the cheapest one in TTVJ.


----------



## webbie64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gooky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, what about players other than iPod? Do you have any take on them? I'll confess, I was looking at the Cardas mini to mini... the cheapest one in TTVJ.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

gooky, the Cardas HPI mini-2-mini is a delightful sounding, very flexible and durable portable IC.

 I bought one for my best friend and use one on my ultraportable rig. I only go for my higher SQ silver mini-2-minis when I am using my transportable.

 You won't go wrong with the Cardas HPI.


----------



## Skylab

I think getting a decent, solidly constructed cable is a good idea, but i do not tend to buy super-expensive ones. Also, i like to buy cable used - cheaper, and generally very safe.

 Thanks for all the kind words, folks!


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *webbie64* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gooky, the Cardas HPI mini-2-mini is a delightful sounding, very flexible and durable portable IC.

 I bought one for my best friend and use one on my ultraportable rig. I only go for my higher SQ silver mini-2-minis when I am using my transportable.

 You won't go wrong with the Cardas HPI._

 

Agreed.


----------



## slowth

I keep coming back to this page to check out the reviews.. just so many!!

 thanks for a great review!


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Someone pass Skylab a Viper & Boa already!!! (iBasso amps)


----------



## cyberspyder

Skylab, will you be doing a review on the GoVibe Magnum or Petite?


----------



## Skylab

I have no current plans to, but you never know


----------



## Drag0n

He probably cant just run out and buy every amp around to do these reviews, but im sure any portable amp sent to him, he would probably review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So send him some amps he hasnt reviewed!


----------



## dynagroove

thanks for your reviews Skylab! you were right on the mark for the go-vibe v5 and the mini3, so i decided to pony up for the 2move. again right on! keep those reviews coming.

 jeff h


----------



## babi12

Skylab, thanks for such extensive review.
 Can you look at this A$0.02 Fiio amps (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/fiio-amps-323979/) and Minibox-D?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words. Are those amps really $.02? Wow that would be cheap! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the moment I am not buying any amps to review (I assume that amp is actually more than 2 cents cost), but if the maker asks me to review them, I generally will.


----------



## TSi

Skylab ftw!


----------



## acameron56

Awesome review, thanks!


----------



## davidio

Skylab,

 Hello from Indianapolis! If you have a chance to reply, I have a question that is driving me crazy. As you know, sound descriptions of portable amps can be very subjective. 

 I'm looking for a headphone amp that doesn't alter the original sound of my 5.5 imod...at all. I don't want more treble or bass extension, I don't want the soundstage to be wider or deeper. When I listen to the imod in the car, I bypass the amp and go direct. Then I don't push up the treble or the bass. I just love that pure sound. I have the corda move, which is lovely, but it does add things to the sound. Any idea which portable would best suit my needs? I currently have tried the move and the decware zenhead (still breaking in). Any help would be greatly appreciated, especially by my wallet.
 Dave


----------



## musicmaker

Basically you're after a neutral amp (one that doesn't add or take away anything) and you're describing the iQube.

 I have an iQube/iMod 5.5g and its a lovely combo. If you budget permits, get the iQube. Its a superb piece of work.

 my $0.02...


----------



## Zimm

x2 on the iQube. Start saving you pennies, I'm glad I did.


----------



## oicdn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 Hello from Indianapolis! If you have a chance to reply, I have a question that is driving me crazy. As you know, sound descriptions of portable amps can be very subjective. 

 I'm looking for a headphone amp that doesn't alter the original sound of my 5.5 imod...at all. I don't want more treble or bass extension, I don't want the soundstage to be wider or deeper. When I listen to the imod in the car, I bypass the amp and go direct. Then I don't push up the treble or the bass. I just love that pure sound. I have the corda move, which is lovely, but it does add things to the sound. Any idea which portable would best suit my needs? I currently have tried the move and the decware zenhead (still breaking in). Any help would be greatly appreciated, especially by my wallet.
 Dave_

 

As stated, the iQube is going to be pretty much it. BUT, it's going to be pretty impossible to get anything that amplifies without ANY sort of coloring. Even the iQube smoothens out the sound and makes the bass FULLER with a broader soundstage. But it's as close as you're gonna get. The only way you'de pretty much be able to do that is with a volume attenuator (like on the Koss KSC75's) that doesn't amplify anything, rather, just lets it limits the max volume. And even then, arguably, you'd get a alteration in sound.


----------



## Skylab

I also agree that given what you are looking for, davidio, the iQube is the best choice. Nothing is 100% neutral, but the iQube is the closest I have heard.


----------



## c-record

I just finished this monster thread and gained a lot of insight for my portable amp purchase. Thanks Skylab and everyone for contributing!


----------



## moriez

Skylab, hope you can get your hands on a iBasso D2 Boa. Would like to see your take on that amp. And also the iBasso D2 Viper :]


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Rumor has it that an iBasso D2 viper with two LMH6622 opamps will sound just like an iQube. I'm gonna have to look into that someday.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rumor has it that an iBasso D2 viper with two LMH6622 opamps will sound just like an iQube. I'm gonna have to look into that someday._

 

Interesting...


----------



## chris_ah1

guys - how does a D2 Boa compare to a xin reference?? Will the Boa be added to the roundup at all?

 I'm pretty much a soundstage fanboy so hoping the D2 boa is ok.


----------



## Skylab

At this point I have no plans to review a D2 Boa, unless iBasso wants to loan me one


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris_ah1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys - how does a D2 Boa compare to a xin reference?? Will the Boa be added to the roundup at all?

 I'm pretty much a soundstage fanboy so hoping the D2 boa is ok._

 

lemme stick my two cents in here. I'm SOOO OVER Xin and his non-responsiveness I cannot conceive of anyone even thinking of a reference. It's been a year since I ordered mine with no contact whatsoever with him. So I'd scratch the Reference out of any considerations at all. Plus, if you ever get it and it breaks, what do you do?? Wait another year+ for him to fix it???

 I also notice the big Xin thread has dropped out of the daily mix here so I guess others are just as hopeless of ever receiving their amps.

 as i said, my two cents.


----------



## chris_ah1

Oh, i already have a xin reference which I'm pretty smitten with. Got it for $10 from a forum user. It's my benchmark in terms of quality and sound comparison - I haven't heard a better portable yet. but i know jamato and skylab have listened to the reference and i know jamato has heard d2 too - hoping that one would weigh in at least.


----------



## hockeyb213

a reference sold for 10 bucks? what was the person you bought it from smoking? lol aren't they extremely good?


----------



## shrisha

Thanks so much dear Skylab for a great reviews! It's realy helpfull. And could you please to point me where is you "DAC section reviews" I can't find it.


----------



## chris_ah1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a reference sold for 10 bucks? what was the person you bought it from smoking? lol aren't they extremely good?_

 

he had a couple gifted from xin for audio testing. And xin said he could pass on the updated one. Basically, it's why I love this community out of all the ones online the most - we're here for sharing our passion. And yes, i know the reference is only 8th on the list, but it is superb. Only fault is that it is so well extended in the treble that it makes sibilant phones (like sa5000s) sound their harshest. Cheapo headphone ports make the sa5000s better, or very warm non-netural amps. the other big fault is the vendor is MIA which in my book means it should be off the list completely or at least put higher up the ranks, but in brackets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, i wouldn't mind finding the dac section review too lol. I've tried searching but it's hard to filter it down.


----------



## Skylab

Here is the link you seek : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...mpared-257726/


----------



## shrisha

Thank you for link. Just finish it. Great review. Thanks. Also would be great to hear your opinion about Pico, Predator and 2Move DACs. That what is very interesting to know for me. Could you please write about it something?
 Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

The Pico I got had no DAC, so I cannot comment on that, sorry. The DACs of the 2Move and Predator both worked quite well, I felt, but I can't be too much more about the Predator DAC since I no longer have it. Both offer very good sound from their DACs, but in both cases I think the line in sounds better with an iMod iPod.


----------



## shrisha

Ok. Thank you very much.


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico I got had no DAC, so I cannot comment on that, sorry. The DACs of the 2Move and Predator both worked quite well, I felt, but I can't be too much more about the Predator DAC since I no longer have it. Both offer very good sound from their DACs, but in both cases I think the line in sounds better with an iMod iPod._

 

sorry it might sound like a silly question, but i understand that if u're using the DAC in the predator, that would mean a pure digital signal from the source was going into the DAC/Amp. if you were using the ipod lineout, the ipod would to the conversion to analog, and then pass that signal through the predator's amp. so u're saying the DAC in the imod ipod's better than the predator's?


----------



## Skylab

I'm saying that the totality of the signal chain is better, yes. This isn't so hard to imagine - USB DACs are not of fantastic quality, and the Woolfson DACs in the iPod are quite good sounding if you tap them correctly.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I believe that my iMod with the smaller less costly portable line out docks (my 22g Cryo dock and jumbo cryo silver x dock) is closer to on par with the top end USB DAC (and slightly below the Headroom Micro DAC using optical). But the iMod with big V-cap dock beats the USB DAC's (and maybe even the Micro DAC with optical too).


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm saying that the totality of the signal chain is better, yes. This isn't so hard to imagine - USB DACs are not of fantastic quality, and the Woolfson DACs in the iPod are quite good sounding if you tap them correctly._

 

i didn't realise that. I was thinking of the predator precisely for the reason that i need both a dac and an amp. this gives me reason to actually considering getting separate devices instead. if i'm going to spend 500bucks, i'd want a good dac.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *athenaesword* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i didn't realise that. I was thinking of the predator precisely for the reason that i need both a dac and an amp. this gives me reason to actually considering getting separate devices instead. if i'm going to spend 500bucks, i'd want a good dac._

 

The DACs in the Predator and Pico are supposedly reasonably good. Those DACs are USB-only, though, and thus are meant for use with a computer.

 The iMod only (apparently) beats these DACs when used with the V-Cap Dock, which is a costly upgrade to the already costly iMod. This, however, CANNOT be used with a computer, only the iPod itself.

 So don't let the thought of the V-Cap iMod sounding better than a Predator or Pico's built-in DAC scare you off. The built-in USB DAC sections for those tiny amps will be significant improvements over your sound card. Totally different animals.


----------



## Skylab

I agree with all that by the way.


----------



## athenaesword

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Packgrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DACs in the Predator and Pico are supposedly reasonably good. Those DACs are USB-only, though, and thus are meant for use with a computer.

 The iMod only (apparently) beats these DACs when used with the V-Cap Dock, which is a costly upgrade to the already costly iMod. This, however, CANNOT be used with a computer, only the iPod itself.

 So don't let the thought of the V-Cap iMod sounding better than a Predator or Pico's built-in DAC scare you off. The built-in USB DAC sections for those tiny amps will be significant improvements over your sound card. Totally different animals._

 

thanks for clearing that up. I don't really know much about the iMod since I don't have one and have never considered getting one. So I guess i'll be getting the predator afterall...


----------



## Podster

"But my bias has always been clear - I like my headphones to provide the color - I like my amps to be neutral."

 Ditto Sky, after my 4th amp and a stable of phones and IEM's I'm on the same page Everyphone/IEM sounds different and with each amp! 

 Glad to see you still devoting so much to this hobby, this thread has really gotten the mileage and deservedly so!


----------



## jma790

Hi Skylab, thanks for the great review, really informative.
 Can you help me with this?
 I need to buy a good portable amp (altough I plan to use it mainly at home, but moving a really big amp around the house is no good; but sometime I will take it away from home with me)
 I am currently between 3 choices, Pico w/o DAC, Predator (or Hornet) and the Corda 2Move. The DAC is not really important for me since I don't spend much time at my PC (but sometimes I watch movies and videos here tough, so it would be good). I have only the Triple.fi's and plan to buy the Yuin OK1's in the future.
 So, should I take the 2Move which already has a DAC and supposely good SQ; or should I buy a Pico, and in the future a DAC... or save for the predator?
 I am poor right now, but I am doing my research already!
 Thanks in adavnce for any help you can give me.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words. I really can't tell you which amp to get though - those are all very good amps. You have to try to decide for yourself by reading this and other reviews, and based on the price, etc. I am sure you'd like any of those choices.


----------



## jma790

Great!
 Thanks Skylab!


----------



## chinesekiwi

Nice, I would like to see, I know it won't be top of the line but will be interesting, how the two most popular cheap portable amps, the Fiio and PA2V2, stack up against the higher end ones.


----------



## dfkt

PA2V2 is more or less useless crap, Fiio is quite nice with *some* phones.


----------



## SawaFish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PA2V2 is more or less useless crap, Fiio is quite nice with *some* phones._

 

In that case I'm a man selling useless crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think the PA2v2 is rather usefull for people with little money or who want to see what effect amping can have without throwing big bucks at it, like me, I'm upgrading to a 2Move now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## tnmike1

jma790--For what it's worth, a few people on the Triple Fi thread swear by the Hornet/triple combination. can't verify it, but you may want to check out that thread--the conversation is only about one or two pages from the end.


----------



## nsx_23

I'm tossing up between the following:

 1) Meier Headsix
 2) Minibox E
 3) Microshar uAmp107
 4) Practical Devices XM4
 5) Headroom total airhead

 As much as I want the headsix, $200 is a bit expensive for me. The XM4 seems to be quiet popular here, but would the minibox E be a worthwhile option.


----------



## SawaFish

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As much as I want the headsix, $200 is a bit expensive for me._

 

 You can get the Headsic straight from Jan for $185 including shipping.

 I received my 2Move yesterday and I can only say one thing: WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It sounds very nice with the D5000 though not so nice with the K271s, but maybe after changing the settings that'll change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Skylab

I personally think the Headsix will sound the best from that group of amps.


----------



## gonzalo

corda 2 move with denon's d 5000 & UE 11 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 OLEEEEEEE


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally think the Headsize will sound the best from that group of amps._

 

headsize?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SawaFish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can get the Headsic straight from Jan for $185 including shipping.

 I received my 2Move yesterday and I can only say one thing: WOW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It sounds very nice with the D5000 though not so nice with the K271s, but maybe after changing the settings that'll change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

I just sent him a PM, and he told me to send him an email to some address. Even $185 is a bit expensive for me at the moment, so I'm hoping he can lower the price for me.

 I'm about to receive a pair of Grado SR60s, and I'll be using the amp with them as well as my UE SF5pros. I mainly listen to a mixture of jazz and rock.


----------



## Skylab

Typo, sorry - meant Headsix.


----------



## nsx_23

Maybe I should rephrase my question to "which is the best value for money?"


----------



## Skylab

I can't really answer that question - we all have very different values of money


----------



## nsx_23

I guess I just want to get something good that will last me for ages and drive a whole variety of headphones/IEMs well.

 I'm not keen on spending $200, but if it'll get me an amplifier that will last me a long time than I will seriously consider it.

 Headsix for $185 shipped is tempting, but I don't quiet have the money yet (I'm waiting on my pay).


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I just want to get something good that will last me for ages and drive a whole variety of headphones/IEMs well.

 I'm not keen on spending $200, but if it'll get me an amplifier that will last me a long time than I will seriously consider it.

 Headsix for $185 shipped is tempting, but I don't quiet have the money yet (I'm waiting on my pay)._

 

Keep saving. You won't regret spending that $200 and it will be worth the wait.

 I started with a PA2v2. Six portable amps later(and $1,700) I'm in a happy place.


----------



## wicker_man

Many people seem to start with a PA2V2, so they seem like good amps and with good service from the seller. But, would it be good with JVC Marshmallows?

 I currently use cheap JVC Marshmallows with my iPod Classic, and tried a Fiio amp but I don't think it works well. I plan to try out some Grados (need to save up, they are expensive in the UK!) and buy some better canalphones/IEMs.


----------



## nsx_23

^ I think you would benefit more from some decent headphones/IEMs first before getting an amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep saving. You won't regret spending that $200 and it will be worth the wait.

 I started with a PA2v2. Six portable amps later(and $1,700) I'm in a happy place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I know the Meier will last me a long time, which is why I'm trying to hold out for a second hand one if somebody wants to let theirs go. 

 I'm pretty close to the $200 I'll need for a headsix though. The problem is my pay comes out every 2 weeks, so I gotta wait a while first before I can have the necessary funds.


----------



## Skylab

It will be worth the wait


----------



## nsx_23

Or I can browse the For sale section religiously for a 2nd hand one.

 EDIT: Found one, but seller hasn't responded to PM yet.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ I think you would benefit more from some decent headphones/IEMs first before getting an amp.


_

 

 I agree with that. IMO some $80 IEMs ( I like to push ety ER6) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...or low-end Grado for that price (SR80) will _blow away_ the Marshmallows paired with any amp! Either will sound great straight from iPod.

 ...anyway. 2 weeks is nutin! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just think about those people waiting for a Pico or worse yet, A Xin amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...hey yeah, a Pico is only another $100. lol


----------



## nsx_23

Yeah, I'd love a Predator or pico.....

 I only work 6 hours a fortnight, and earn $150.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

i am one of those who started with a pa2v2...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wicker_man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many people seem to start with a PA2V2, so they seem like good amps and with good service from the seller. But, would it be good with JVC Marshmallows?

 I currently use cheap JVC Marshmallows with my iPod Classic, and tried a Fiio amp but I don't think it works well. I plan to try out some Grados (need to save up, they are expensive in the UK!) and buy some better canalphones/IEMs._


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, so which one of those amps should I buy?

 I just got an offer from somebody for a penguin caffeine ultra, $55 shipped. From the review on head-fi, its supposed to sound like the headsix after burn-in.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, so which one of those amps should I buy?

 I just got an offer from somebody for a penguin caffeine ultra, $55 shipped. From the review on head-fi, its supposed to sound like the headsix after burn-in._

 

Is that the newer model with AD8397 opamp? If so, then yes, it sounds similar to the Headsix when burned in and is very nice.


----------



## nsx_23

How about the Xin SuperMini3?


----------



## Skylab

All:

 Here is an update - I can no longer add to the original post, so this update has to live here.

*Storm Amp Storm 3*

 Info: Storm-Amp

 I was asked to review this amp by an EBay seller of them. I was really not enthusiastic - the last Storm amp I reviewed, the confusingly similarly named Storm STB3, was really not very good. I am happy to report that this amp is MUCH better. It's also much smaller, and more attractive. It runs on 2 AAA batteries. No charging facility. I have no idea what it sells for, and I do not see it on EBay currently.

 In terms of sound, it was a good overall performer with no real glaring weaknesses, but no world-beating areas of performance.

*Build Quality:* A-: Attractive metal case. Loses a few points for the kinda difficult jacks.
*Treble: A-*: Generally clean and clear. Perhaps slightly laid back, but generally very good..
*Midrange: A-*: Again, generally clean and transparent, with no obvious coloration. In direct comparison to the iQube 2Move, or XXS, the mids of are not as transparent. Still, it offers generally very good performance here.
*Bass: *A-: The bass was also very good. There is the right amount, but it is not the tightest bass I ever heard. Also lacks truly deep bass. Still, pretty good. 
*Neutrality:* A-: Generally neutral, with no obvious colorations. Only the slight treble reticence and lack of deep bass really subtracts here, and it’s not a big deal.
*Soundstaging:* B+: Decent, but not impressive soundstaging capabilities. Nothing special here, but not a disaster.
*Transparency:* A-: Here again, a competent performer, but not state of the art.

 So - a pretty good all around performer that doesn't really push state of the art in any one area, but has no glaring weaknesses. A huge step in the right direction for Storm Amp company.


 Conclusions (8/6/08)


 OK, so now it’s now 41 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 7. Decware Zenhead
 8. Xin Reference
 8. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 8. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 9. Headamp AE-2
 9. Graham Slee Voyager
 10. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Mini3
 11. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 12. Portaphile V2^2
 13. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E
 14 Storm 3 (NOT B3)
 14. Storm B4
 15. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 16. Visely HEA- 1
 17. Microshar uAmp107
 18. Practical Devices XM4
 18. C&C XO
 18. iBasso T2
 19. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 20. Xtra X-1 Pro
 21. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 21. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 22. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 23. C&C Box V2
 24. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## dfkt

Makes me wonder what Ray Samuels thinks of this Storm amp's design...


----------



## monolith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Makes me wonder what Ray Samuels thinks of this Storm amp's design... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hehe. They took the bad aspects of RSA design (the huge screws) and combined them with the bad aspects of other designs.


----------



## LFC_SL

Everyone keeps moaning but I quite like the screws. I conjure up an image of Ray tightening them and then etching the number on the case...


----------



## Luke12390

Awesome review. Thanks for the info!

 I'm looking for a portable USB/DAC amp also with optical input.

 Any suggestions?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! I think only the D2 offers optical in.


----------



## Packgrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Luke12390* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm looking for a portable USB/DAC amp also with optical input.

 Any suggestions?_

 

iBasso D1 is pretty much the only option, and it's been discontinued (I got one of the last ones). If you can find it second hand, I do recommend it. Great unit, especially for the price.

 [EDIT: Actually, I think the Headroom Micro Portable works too, but I was never terribly impressed with Headroom's Micro Amp. YMMV.]


----------



## WalkGood

Skylab,
 Just wanted to thank you for the time you took to put this review together, I certainly enjoyed reading it and refer to it from time to time to compare my thoughts. I'm not in the market for a new amp, very happy with my pico, but I see how this has help'd many, respect \o_


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!!!!!!


----------



## Dash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks! I think only the D2 offers optical in._

 

D2 is only USB, ie the Viper and Boa. The D1 had optical in but has been discontinued. There is rumored to be a replacement for the D1 on the way as well as a slew of other revisions/upgrades from iBasso.

 Occasionally a D1 will pop up in the FS forums.


----------



## Skylab

Ahhh - thanks -sorry for the confusion.


----------



## nsx_23

hmm, so which would be the more portable amp, the T1 or the Storm? 

 Also, how do they differ in sound?


----------



## Skylab

The T1 is more portable, but it is long discontinued.


----------



## nsx_23

How do you think the storm will work with jazz or acoustic music?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you think the storm will work with jazz or acoustic music?_

 

I think it would work fine. It's pretty neutral.


----------



## nsx_23

What about the T1 with jazz and acoustic music?


----------



## Skylab

It's been so long since I reviewed the T1 I really can't say.


----------



## nsx_23

I seem to recall my friend saying that there were still some new T1s for sale in Hong Kong, but I can't confirm anything.


----------



## Zephyron

I wouldn't bother with the T1 really.

 It hisses for one, and there's a channel imbalance issue with a lot of them, which results in the right channel being 3dB louder than the left.

 To top that off, the amp is not shielded fromRF interference, so you must prepare for a lot of incoming static if you use it in an area where a lot of RF activities take place.

 It sounds pretty neutral, but congested as well, not very dynamic, and it lacks headroom.

 The only thing it really has going for itself IMO is it size/thickness.

 Personally, I found the Fiio and the average Cmoy running (The one I loaned then was running on OPA2227, I don't know anything else about it) to be a 'better' amps compared to the T1 based on a performance standpoint.


----------



## nsx_23

This little fellow looks interesting: äº¦è»’ç¶²ä¸Šè€³æ©Ÿç›®éŒ„ Mingo-HMW.net

 I wonder if anybody here has tried one.


----------



## nsx_23

This little fellow looks interesting: äº¦è»’ç¶²ä¸Šè€³æ©Ÿç›®éŒ„ Mingo-HMW.net

 I wonder if anybody here has tried one.


----------



## Mr_Junesequa

A few people have.. it was reccomended to me sometime...could have been ages ago..I wish i could read chinese or see a build diagram


----------



## nsx_23

I'm mainly looking for something that will pair well with my iRiver H332.


----------



## RAQemUP

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This little fellow looks interesting: äº¦è»’ç¶²ä¸Šè€³æ©Ÿç›®éŒ„ Mingo-HMW.net

 I wonder if anybody here has tried one._

 

That looks neat. Anyone know where it can be bought and shipped to the US?


----------



## nsx_23

I hope they have colors other than pink.

 Just read through that website. They don't do online shopping at the moment.


----------



## blippster

I believe Jaben (site sponsor, link on the left) stocks them - perhaps drop an email and find out?


----------



## nsx_23

I wonder if the price will come down if a few of us order them.

 On that website, the price is $600HKD, which is about $84.50AUD. For your reference, 1AUD = 0.91USD


----------



## trickywombat

I tried the Matchbox some time ago, and wasn't too impressed. When used with IEMs, it didn't add much to the experience and the amp sounded very veiled. Maybe it could be used to power harder to drive headphones, but for IEMs I preferred the sound out of my iPod.

 I didn't try the Matchbox with a line out dock, though, as most LODs cost more than the Matchbox. I figured, for that price, I shouldn't have to spend more than the amp to get the most out of it.

 Prefer my HeadSix.


----------



## nsx_23

Lol. Headsix is much more expensive than the matchbox. 

 Thanks for sharing your thoughts though.

 Just out of interest, how big was the matchbox?


----------



## trickywombat

About half the size of the HeadSix, but felt a lot lighter.


----------



## nsx_23

Can one of the mods make this thread a stick?


----------



## BigTony

Anyone noticed that about 3/4 of the amps on this list are 'Out of Stock' from the suppliers!
 Each time I think, ok I'll get that one .. its same old 'Out Of Stock'

 Maybe I'll just buy the IQube and says I thought the price was dollars not euros, 'oopps'

 BT


----------



## Skylab

There is no doubt that quite a few of these have been replaced with newer models, although certainly not all, and I think probably less than half.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone noticed that about 3/4 of the amps on this list are 'Out of Stock' from the suppliers!
 Each time I think, ok I'll get that one .. its same old 'Out Of Stock'
_

 

Hey Skylab....I think he's suggesting that you need to start over


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I was afraid of that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not going to happen, though - my head-fi reviewing interests have been more with home amps lately.


----------



## robojack

Yes, Skylab's done his part in reviewing a large share of portable amps, including those that aren't as common amongst Head-fiers. Asking him to re-do or update the review would be unnecessarily cruel, as I'm sure he put a LOT of work into this one. Plus, many of the amps were on loan, so I imagine Skylab would not want to have to re-ask everyone.


----------



## frozenice

Thanks Skylab and hopefully your reviewing interest in home amps includes the Luxman p-1.


----------



## dazzer1975

It would be great if you could collate all your home amp reviews and put them in one big thread akin to this one for your portable reviews.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would be great if you could collate all your home amp reviews and put them in one big thread akin to this one for your portable reviews._

 

Hmmmmm...that's a good idea! I will have to work on that. I have reviewed more than a dozen home amps, it might be nice to have a single thread for them with some comparative rankings.


----------



## Cheers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmmm...that's a good idea! I will have to work on that. I have reviewed more than a dozen home amps, it might be nice to have a single thread for them with some comparative rankings._

 

YES! I would love to see that. I think your reviews are among the very best!


----------



## jma790

Hi Skylab, I already reserved a 2Move, but I have one question: can we compare the amp section of the 2move in sound quality to the predator, hornet M and pico? is it better? or is it just a matter of sound signatures?
 Thanks to you I ended up saving for an amp. You are really evil skylab!


----------



## Skylab

The best thing to do in terms of comparing those amps is to read the sections on them in my review, and then also the other big portable amp review threads that are on head-fi, and try to get an idea based on those what seems like it would be best to you. I prefer the 2Move out of those, but all of those are great amps.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmmm...that's a good idea! I will have to work on that. I have reviewed more than a dozen home amps, it might be nice to have a single thread for them with some comparative rankings._

 

Excellent, I will look forward to reading that with comparative rankings etc.

 ty.


----------



## nsx_23

Just got my XXS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

 I'm like a kid on Christmas day at the moment, and also having a bit of an eargasm! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Shall post some thoughts once I've burnt it in and listened to it with my other gear!


----------



## nsx_23

Received a surprise from my father: A Storm B3. 

 I find it lacking in bass so far, and definitely not as good sounding as my XXS, which I've become addicted to. 

 Should I consider selling it to somebody, or will it get better after lots of burn-in?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received a surprise from my father: A Storm B3. 

 I find it lacking in bass so far, and definitely not as good sounding as my XXS, which I've become addicted to. 

 Should I consider selling it to somebody, or will it get better after lots of burn-in?_

 


 IMO, it will never sound as good as the XXS. Burn in will help. But since you have the XXS, I'm not sure you will ever actually use the B3. I have an iQube and an XXS, and I only use the XXS when I want something really small, since the iQube is better, and where possible, I want to listen to the best portable amp I have.


----------



## nsx_23

Hmm, might as well sell it off to somebody who will use it than.

 EDIT: If anybody's interested, its for sale now http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/fs...rm-3-a-355985/


----------



## Than

I thought I should show my appreciation here. I currently own a headsix, and this review helped me with making the decision to buy it. I've enjoyed following your reviews since before I joined Head-fi, reading this was one of the unlucky events that drew me in here. Thanks.

 I do have one question. I seem to have the common hiss on my headsix when adjusting the volume, but only in the right channel. Is this a sign of some problem? There doesn't seem to be anything wrong when it's playing...


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Than* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have one question. I seem to have the common hiss on my headsix when adjusting the volume, but only in the right channel. Is this a sign of some problem? There doesn't seem to be anything wrong when it's playing..._

 

The potentiometer in the Headsix is prone to do this. (noisy knob). There are a couple of threads about this. Some people recommend using electric contact cleaner but Jan Meier advised me against it. He recommended immersing the PCB in alcohol. I tried this and did not work. it is annoying when adjusting the volume but it does not affect sound quality.


----------



## Wilashort

Yeah, thanks to skylab review and honest answers from Jan meier, i get my Arietta. I still haven't had problems with my amp....
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Than* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought I should show my appreciation here. I currently own a headsix, and this review helped me with making the decision to buy it. I've enjoyed following your reviews since before I joined Head-fi, reading this was one of the unlucky events that drew me in here. Thanks._


----------



## Than

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The potentiometer in the Headsix is prone to do this. (noisy knob). There are a couple of threads about this. Some people recommend using electric contact cleaner but Jan Meier advised me against it. He recommended immersing the PCB in alcohol. I tried this and did not work. it is annoying when adjusting the volume but it does not affect sound quality._

 

I'm pretty sure it's just static. If I turn the knob a bit with no music playing, it goes away. I was prepared for it when I purchased the amp, but was surprised that it was only in one channel. Doesn't seem to be anything to worry about though.


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Than* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty sure it's just static. If I turn the knob a bit with no music playing, it goes away. I was prepared for it when I purchased the amp, but was surprised that it was only in one channel. Doesn't seem to be anything to worry about though._

 

It is not static if we are talking about the same thing. I am not the only one who has reported this. Even Jan Meier had some suggestions which did not work. It does not affect the overall sound but I do find it irritating. I dont know if this is a common problem with other portable amplifiers. In my case, I hear the scratchy noise when I turn the knob, whether there is music or not.


----------



## Than

Ok, maybe not static, that was just a guess. Mine only makes noise in the right channel though. I'm not too worried about it.


----------



## Callas

Your postings are always VERY helpful! Thank you very much!!!


----------



## jma790

Hi Skylab, where is your Predator-2Move DAC comparision? Did you make it already? I already bought a 2Move... all thanks to you... great


----------



## Skylab

I did, but the far better DAC review is this one from HeadphoneAddict: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/m...ro-amp-306883/


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Ooohhhh!


----------



## biw

Just spent last 6 six hours reading from beginning, (not every word, but did went through every page), really admire the monumental efforts, sort of like the top 250 list of imdb (IMDb Top 250) [but this will be : amps that i wish to audtion them all in my lifetime]. Since I have limited budget, I decided to ordered a sr71a (will be my first commercial headphone amp), and will try to use it to power my 8 years old 580 together with my even older D-e905 PCDP line out, that would be my "hi end rig" , haha. I tried to built a cmoy, and it has issues, so i want to see what a good one sounds like, then I can compare...

 several questions:

 1) will 71a be re audtioned?

 2) where is iQube made? (call me whatever, but it does affect my buying decision, I know I should only be concerned with how it sounds...)

 3) 2move base look round, does it "rock" back and forth (i.e. not stable ) on table, for example?

 4) does cable really improve 580, and why?

 5) is there a thread that discuss the phase and amplitude response of different amps. Usually, amps, headphone, etc only quote the amplitude response. But with the spectral phase response, one should be able to attribute the listening experience to the complete response of the amp/headphone?

 [for example, an amp can have +/- 1db throughout the audible spectrum but due to the non-ideal phase response, the time domain response can get messed up, and bass may seem less tight...etc]

 Have been reading head-fi for years, but have few experience posting here or anywhere for that matter, so if I am not clear or asking the wrong question, please forgive me.


----------



## Skylab

Hi biw. Not sure about 71a since it is a limited edition. We shall see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 iQube is made in Holland I am pretty sure.


----------



## hoosterw

Yes the iQube is fully Holland designed and build.






 Rgds Hans.


----------



## linus0419

How about the Xin SuperMacro4 ?


----------



## Skylab

I highly doubt Xin will be sending me an amp to review since he cannot even fill his orders


----------



## DrBenway

Sorry if this has been brought up already, but is there any chance of a head-to-head between the old and new SR-71?

 I've noticed some back and forth around the forum about whether it would be possible to offer the same sound with differently sourced parts. I can't imagine that lead vs some other material in a few components would make a difference...or would it? Lead-free solder certainly behaves differently from the leaded stuff, in my experience, but I don't know if that would apply to sonic performance.

 I've been cash-constrained for a while, but based on everything I've read over the last year or so, I had decided that I probably wanted the original SR71 as soon as I could afford it (not yet, sadly). So I was pretty disappointed to learn of the discontinuation of the original. Wondering if I need to go back to the drawing board.


----------



## Skylab

There is no chance of my doing an SR71 head to head, no. I no longer own the original, and the new one is a limited edition with a huge percentage already sold according to Ray, so it doesn't likely make sense for him to loan me one.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no chance of my doing an SR71 head to head, no. I no longer own the original, and the new one is a limited edition with a huge percentage already sold according to Ray, so it doesn't likely make sense for him to loan me one._

 

Thanks. I hope he decides to make it a regular inventory item in the future.


----------



## linus0419

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I highly doubt Xin will be sending me an amp to review since he cannot even fill his orders 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hahaha...
 Maybe,I can send to you....


----------



## Skylab

I appreciate the offer, but I don't like borrowing equipment from other head-fiers. Thanks though!


----------



## halfjob

hi skylab,
 firstly kudos to you for such an excellent job helping guide us through this minefield in a calm and measured way, very helpful to those of us who had not yet sold our souls to die on the bleeding edge of portable audio.
 i know you must be fairly bored of this by now, but could you give me your personal preference for an one time purchase amp to go with 160g ipod, se530 and a varied but non-classical taste in music. home system has no headphones, but does have lots of vinyl and valves and a relaxing but accurate sound is what we're all after isn't it? by your reviews so far i have narrowed choices down to meier 2move or rsa tomahawk, in that no dac is needed, battery life is good and size should be as small as possible, but no real budgetry constraints.
 your advice here is doubly valuable as it's virtually impossible to demo any of this equipment.
 many thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Since you need no DAC and want small, go with either the Meier XXS or the Tomahawk. The XXS will have the less forward, slightly smoother sound - the Tomahawk the bolder, more forward sound. Choose accordingly


----------



## fallen.angel

Hi Skylab,

 Will you be adding a review of the new RSA SR-71A any time soon?


----------



## Skylab

No - the 71A is a mostly sold out limited edition - not much point for me to review it.

 I WILL be adding the new ALO portable amp soon, though


----------



## mrarroyo

FWIW I prefer the sound of the original SR71 to the new SR71A The bass is in better balance to the highs. The new one has IMO to much bass for the highs.

 As far as the Reference, I have one about 6 weeks old and I prefer the new SR71A to it. BTW, also IMO the iBasso D3 sounds better than the SR71A or the Reference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since you need no DAC and want small, go with either the Meier XXS or the Tomahawk. The XXS will have the less forward, slightly smoother sound - the Tomahawk the bolder, more forward sound. Choose accordingly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

While I sold my RSA Tomahawk after I got the Predator, I preferred the SE530 and Tomahawk combo over the Headsix (H6 same as XXS), and I felt they have very good synergy. I simply liked the SE530 better with the Tomahawk than the Headsix, as it gave the SE530 better energy and treble. 

 The problem was that I found the highs too stringent with the Tomahawk (TH) when used with my Denon C700 or Super.fi 5 Pro, but the TH was good with Shure E2c, E3c, E4c, SE310 and SE530 and JVC Marshmallows. The TH was not bad with the Triple.fi 10 Pro and Livewires custom but I did prefer the Headsix with those. But now I prefer the Predator with any of them over the TH or H6.


----------



## inF

Hello Skylab, have you ever tried PINT with HD25-1's?


----------



## Skylab

No, I can't say that I have.

 I will be adding ALO's new portable amp to this review thread soon, however.


----------



## energie

Skylab did you try the Ibasso D3 or P3 by chance?!

 thanks


----------



## Skylab

No, iBasso has not approached me about either of these amps.


----------



## energie

too badd!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *energie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_too badd!_

 

Hi, not wanting to do a thread hi-jack but... If it is any consolation, HiFlight has a good thread going on the D3 and P3 with his feedback, as well as posts by mrarroyo and Jamato8 who have done reviews and commented on their amps too. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/d...arrive-365831/

 And, I am burning-in my own D3 right now to add to my mini-review of portable USB DAC amps. I will have about 250 hours on it by next weekend and 400 hours on it by Halloween and hope to start my review when it had stopped going through changes. I can say right now that it sounded great right out of the box and is very transparent, open and spacious. I don't have the 2MOVE that I borrowed back in March, so I can't compare it to that. But I have most of the other amps to compare it to and right now it is extremely good - I expect it to be in the top tier of portable amps: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...ech-v1-306883/


----------



## energie

Addict, obviously your and others opinion is welcome for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thanks for the redirect


----------



## Skylab

Larry I was actually hoping you would jump in on that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.


----------



## kostalex

Happy birthday, Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!


----------



## energie

now free amps to everyone wooooot


----------



## Skylab

*Update 10-21-08*

*> ALO Double Mini3 Pocket headphone Amplifier *

 Info: http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index....roducts_id=154






 I received a loaner of the ALO Audio Double Mini3 amp from Ken at ALO Audio. This is an modified Mini3 he worked with Vinnie from RedWineAudio to develop. The Mini3 has been modded with some improved parts. At $285, it’s considerably more expensive than the stock Mini3. I liked the stock Mini3 (see review above), but no longer had one to compare the ALO amp to, so it was compared to the Meier Audio XXS, 2Move, and the Qables iQube.

 The ALO amp includes built in rechargeable battery, and comes with a charger.

*Build Quality:* A-: Metal Hammond case, certainly sturdy enough, but essentially lacking any real industrial design. But well built and sturdy.
*Treble:* A-: Generally clean and tidy treble. Slightly laid back. Lacks the very last bit of resolution, extension, and air. Good performance, but below the Meier and Qables amps in this regard.
*Midrange:* A-: The mids are very nice – smooth and slightly lush. Not the last word in transparency, but very good. In the top class of amps in this regard. Overall the amp is on the soft side, including in the mids.
*Bass:* A-: Tuneful, punchy bass. Certainly plenty deep enough. The bass lacked some authority I felt, however – I expected a little more, but not a lot, and the bass quality is good. Bass definition was good, but not as good as the Meier 2Move or iQube.
*Neutrality:* A-: Lacks just a little at the very top and bottom, but generally very neutral, to just on the warm side of things.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY deep, and very well defined, and had nice width. This was a definite strength. Better than the 2Move, and on par with the iQube in this regard.
*Transparency:* A-: It is basically transparent, but it is outperformed by both the Meier and Qables amps in this regard. There is a very slight degree to which I felt the amp lacked openness versus the very best. So again, very good, but not world class performance.

 So where does that leave the ALO amp? It generally performs very well, and I enjoyed listening to it. But IMO it is not as good sounding as the almost identically priced Meier 2Move, which includes a DAC. In fact, I preferred the Meier XXS, which is cheaper. This makes it a little hard for me to unconditionally recommend it. Its sound is on the softer, laid back, smooth side. Mated with more aggressive headphones, it could really shine. But with my headphones, it underperformed for the money. It joins the Headamp AE-2 and Graham Slee Voyager in amps I felt sounded good, but were outperformed by amps of the same or lesser cost.




*Conclusions (10/21/08)*

 NOTE: All new reviews have to be added to the end of the thread due to the length of this post - only the rankings will now change.

 OK, so now it’s now 42 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. Headamp Pico
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 2. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 3. RSA SR71
 3. RSA The Predator
 4. RSA The Hornet “M”
 5. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 6. RSA Tomahawk
 6. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 7. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 7. Decware Zenhead
 8. Xin Reference
 8. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 8. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 9. ALO Double Mini3
 9. Headamp AE-2
 9. Graham Slee Voyager
 10. Go-Vibe 7
 10. Mini3
 11. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 12. Portaphile V2^2
 13. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E
 14 Storm 3 (NOT B3)
 14. Storm B4
 15. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 16. Visely HEA- 1
 17. Microshar uAmp107
 18. Practical Devices XM4
 18. C&C XO
 18. iBasso T2
 19. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 20. Xtra X-1 Pro
 21. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 21. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 22. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 23. C&C Box V2
 24. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## isao2k8

It's always a pleasure to see your review, thanks!


----------



## dfkt

Wow, for their asking price of $300 I'd expect something a bit more fetching than a stock Hammond case...


----------



## mrarroyo

I do not know why we make such a big deal on the case. The hammond case is sturdy, functional, and inexpensive.

 It does as a good a job at protecting the amp as a custom unit. The save money could be used to buy music.


----------



## Skylab

Well, I do prefer a nicer looking case in general, but I understand the buyer does pay for that.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not know why we make such a big deal on the case. The hammond case is sturdy, functional, and inexpensive.

 It does as a good a job at protecting the amp as a custom unit. The save money could be used to buy music._

 

The case per se I like fine. It´s the faceplate, volume knob, engraving, screws that look cheap to me.

 Less expensive - some of them in Skylab´s list higher ranked - amps like the Headsix, iBasso, and so on come with nice looking custom cases, and no amateurish (IMO) engravings... I wouldn't say one really "saves" money with a $300 amp anyway. Sure, there are Black Gates and whatnot in it, but it certainly doesn't look that way.


----------



## dadozen

just bumping this up. This thread must stay in the first page for whoever wants to check it.


----------



## japc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dadozen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just bumping this up. This thread must stay in the first page for whoever wants to check it._

 

Should be made sticky then.


----------



## Skylab

*Update 11-11-08*

*> Ray Samuels Audio Mustang P-51 *

 Info: P-51 Mustang - Ray Samuels Audio

 I received a loaner of the new Mustang P-51 portable headphone amp from Ray Samuels Audio. The impossibly small Mustang is quite full featured – lithium Ion battery built in, 3 gain settings. Smaller even that the Tomahawk. Same styling as other RSA amps, which is to say a very attractive anodized metal case. The Mustang, according to Ray, can deliver more than 2 times the amount of current that a Tomahawk can. Pretty impressive.

 Headphones used for this review were the Audio Technica AT-ESW9, Kenwood K1000, and the Sennheiser PXC-350.

*Build Quality:* A+: Attractive metal case, properly sized metal knob, very sturdy connectors. Doesn’t get any better.

*Treble:* A: Amazingly smooth and musical, and yet highly detailed. Maybe not quite as extended as the iQube, but if not, very close. Slightly more extended than the Meier 2Move. The unusual instrumentation on Joanna Newsome’s “Cosmia” was very well rendered.

*Midrange:* A++: OK, here it comes – the best mids of any portable headphone amp EVER. Yes, this includes the iQube, 2Move, and any of Ray’s other amps. The mids on the Mustang have to be heard to be believed. I was SHOCKED. So pretty, so lush and liquid, and yet so neutral and transparent. Joanna Newsome’s harp and voice on “Cosmia” were so good I truly got shivers and goosebumps. The Mustang’s mids are nothing short of THRILLING.

*Bass:* A+: Full, tight, tuneful, punchy, deep bass. RSA amps all have great bass, and this one is no exception. No bloat, but lots of meat. Really nice. Just about the perfect combination of fullness, power, and control.

*Neutrality:* A+: Is it just a touch warm? Probably. Does this make it sound colored? NO WAY. It sounds completely natural – maybe to a level I haven’t quite experienced.

*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was deep, wide, and very well defined. It isn’t quite as good iQube in this regard, but this still will not be seen as a shortcoming.

*Transparency:* A+: It’s amazingly transparent – it has a jaw-droppingly open, clear, are grain-free sound. It really excels here. Music just naturally flows out of the Mustang, in a liquid, natural way.

 WOW. The Mustang is a real achievement in terms of portable headphone amps, in absolute terms, let alone for one that is so small. In fact it is hard for me to accept how such a small little headphone amp can sound so very good. But it sounds EXCELLENT. In my opinion, it is the best sounding RSA portable amp I have reviewed (I have not reviewed the SR71A Blackbird, but all the others).

 The Mustang takes its place at the very top of the pyramid in the world of portable headphone amps. It’s terrific, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. For the price, at this level of quality, it’s even a bargain. It was so good, it actually required a bit of re-ranking at the top of my list.




*Conclusions (11/11/08)*

 NOTE: All new reviews have to be added to the end of the thread due to the length of this post - only the rankings will now change.

 OK, so now it’s now 43 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. RSA Mustang P-51
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)

 3. Headamp Pico
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 4. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Predator
 5. RSA The Hornet “M”
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 8. Decware Zenhead
 9. Xin Reference
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 10. ALO Double Mini3
 10. Headamp AE-2
 10. Graham Slee Voyager
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 13. Portaphile V2^2
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 15. Mini-Box E
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3)
 15. Storm B4
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1
 18. Microshar uAmp107
 19. Practical Devices XM4
 19. C&C XO
 19. iBasso T2
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## flargosa

Skylab,

 I have a suggestion, since all the amp reviews will now be at the end of the thread. It could be harder to find reviews buried somewhere in the thread. Why not make the amp ranking list on the first page also a link to the review. So now the amp ranking list will also be a list of links to the amp reviews. This would provide easier navigation.


----------



## Skylab

I will consider it - this would take a lot of time, however - more than I have at the moment.


----------



## leftnose

Skylab,

 Thanks for the excellent reviews! 

 I wonder if I could add one more request for a change to the format: could you make mention of which headphones you are using in each review. I know that the headphone has changed over the course of the review and it would be nice to know what the reference point is for each review.

 Thanks so much!


----------



## Skylab

Great suggestion - added for the Mustang.


----------



## energie

Does anyone know price of the mustang?

 thanks


----------



## Skylab

I believe it is $325 for the pre-order, and $375 thereafter.


----------



## energie

Looks like a beast, how can it sound so good considering how small is it -_-


----------



## Lil' Knight

The Mustang does look awesome!
 Now I have to come back to portable world


----------



## FreeBlues

Oh no, I did not need to see this review!

 Thanks again Sky for all your effort.


----------



## SierraHotel01

In my opinion, it is the best sounding RSA portable amp I have reviewed (I have not reviewed the SR71A Blackbird, but all the others).

 The Mustang takes its place at the very top of the pyramid in the world of portable headphone amps. It’s terrific, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. For the price, at this level of quality, it’s even a bargain. It was so good, it actually required a bit of re-ranking at the top of my list.

 ---------------------------------
 Skylab: many thanks for the detailed (and encouraging) impressions of the P-51 Mustang. IMHO, Ray is single handedly advancing the state of the art in portable headphone amps. (We all have much to be thankful for, this holiday season).

 PS: any additional comments on direct comparison of Mustang / Tomahawk?
 From your rankings, it sounds like the Mustang is a significant improvement over both Tomahawk, and even Predator amp SQ.


----------



## Skylab

I did not directly compare the Predator or Tomahawk to the Mustang - I directly compared the Mustang to the iQube and the Meier 2Move. But since I felt the Mustang was slightly better than the 2Move, and I felt the 2Move was slightly better than the Predator, I derived the rankings this way.

 There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the Mustang is superior to the Tomahawk or Predator. How much is much tougher to answer. But definitely better.


----------



## SierraHotel01

Skylab: Understood. Thanks.

 Now, the anticipation starts. 
 (Hope Ray is busy assembling those bad boys for us)


----------



## hockeyb213

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not directly compare the Predator or Tomahawk to the Mustang - I directly compared the Mustang to the iQube and the Meier 2Move. But since I felt the Mustang was slightly better than the 2Move, and I felt the 2Move was slightly better than the Predator, I derived the rankings this way.

 There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the Mustang is superior to the Tomahawk or Predator. How much is much tougher to answer. But definitely better._

 

how about compared to the sr-71a?


----------



## Lil' Knight

....
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how about compared to the sr-71a?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* 
_ (I have not reviewed the SR71A Blackbird, but all the others)._


----------



## hockeyb213

I know I am asking if he can get one to review....


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know I am asking if he can get one to review...._

 

I would love to compare the SR71 and SR71A - but it isn't going to happen - I don't have the SR71 anymore, and since Ray is basically sold out of the SR71A, he quite understandably doesn't see much value in sending me a review sample.


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would love to compare the SR71 and SR71A - but it isn't going to happen - I don't have the SR71 anymore, and since Ray is basically sold out of the SR71A, he quite understandably *doesn't see much value in sending me a review sample.*_

 

Now that's not the Head-fi spirit *at all*. What ever happened to reviewing for the sake of comparing to other amps?


----------



## hockeyb213

no nice generous forum member is willing to lend you one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ? I am just so curious as to what you would think of it since that is my main amp as of right now


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no nice generous forum member is willing to lend you one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ? I am just so curious as to what you would think of it since that is my main amp as of right now_

 

Actually, there may be one who is willing. More later.


----------



## hockeyb213

haha nice! Skylab I have a question for you did you ever own / use a silver tomahawk?


----------



## Skylab

I did own a Tomahawk for quite a while, yes. It was black, but that makes no difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Everyone knows the Silver ones sounded better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: Do you need to borrow an iBasso D3 ??


----------



## kostalex

We all need Skylab to borrow D3


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We all need Skylab to borrow D3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do not confuse needs and wants, Grasshopper.


----------



## hockeyb213

hehehe we all "want" skylab to review ibasso d3 and sr-71a as far as I know


----------



## -=Germania=-

I too can conclude to the awesomeness of the P-51. 

 I heard the prototype in August and told Ray that I wanted to be the first person on the order list for these. Dreams do come true!

 Although if you are already an owner of one of the top tier amps, it becomes more and more about personal taste. I love Mids and this fits my listening while being a better match for my setup. The Pico is a VERY capable amp and they are ranked near the same for a reason, but I just _really_ felt my heart fall into the music with the P-51. Nit-picky, I know.....


----------



## Skylab

Hi guys - 

 as it happens, I do only review amps I *want* to review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to review the SR71A. I have no desire to review the ibasso. Sorry folks.


----------



## ZephyrSapphire

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys - 

 as it happens, I do only review amps I *want* to review 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to review the SR71A. I have no desire to review the ibasso. Sorry folks._

 

Okay.. That's just sad.


----------



## vkvedam

Thanks for all those impressions.


----------



## Angsila

Looks like Luminette was right!


----------



## energie

right with?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ZephyrSapphire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay.. That's just sad._

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. But doing precise, level matched, comparative reviews takes a lot of time. Plenty has been written about the D3 already.

 Further, IBasso has approached me before about reviewing their amps, and I have always agreed. They stopped after one of my reviews was less than favorable. Fine, no problem. But why then I should spend time reviewing a unit that has to be loaned to me by another head-fier, when there have been PLENTY of great reviews by Mrarroyo, HeadphoneAddict and others -- this I don't get.

 I never intended to review EVERY portable amp ever made


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Angsila* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like Luminette was right!_

 

Right about what?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hockeyb213* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hehehe we all "want" skylab to review ibasso d3 and sr-71a as far as I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Follow this link for a review! 

 [size=x-small]Comparison Of Five Portable Amps [/size].


----------



## vii_haven

Skylab

 How would you compare the Tomahawk to the Mustang?

 In terms of soundstage, and bass?


----------



## Skylab

I could not compare them directly, but from memory, the Mustang is better on both.


----------



## digihead

Skylab - thank you for all your informative reviews. I know it takes a LOT of time and effort to do this and I for one appreciate it.

 Unfortunately, I was REALLY hoping you didn't like the Mustang. My wallet isn't happy either. Sounds like my ears will be though...


----------



## vii_haven

How about the P-51 vs the Predator? How different is the soundstage and bass with regards to that? 

 Just preordered a P-51, am really excited to get it in my hands once it ships!!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Hey guys, there was a point in time (1 yr ago) when I wanted the very best portable, so I didn't have to buy a desktop amp. Back then I would absolutely have to have a P-51 Mustang no matter the cost. Now I realize the advantages of the desktop amps, to the degree that all I need is a great portable for when I am away from my home rig, but it can be #1 or #10, and I'd be happy. (unless there was no home rig to come home to).

 I can tell you that any of the amps Skylab has ranked in the #1-10 place (or even #11 based on other's feedback) are probably fantastic and "good enough". I own a #3, #4, #7 and #8 ranked amp, and have heard the other amps that were tied for #3 and #7. While my preferences in sound may be slightly different, I understand completely how he came up with his rank. Most of them sound extremely good or very good, but some do some things better than others, and few do EVERYTHING right.

 I think the 4 amps that Skylab has placed in the #1 and #2 spot (with ties) are kept separate with a blank line from the rest of the amps because they are the ones he feels do just about everything right. But, he hasn't tried every headphones with them, and there will be some that don't sound their best with those amps. So, you may buy an amp high on his list, and not like it and wonder how he could have ranked it so high, or find an amp that is amazing and wonder why he didn't make it #3. I say keep an open mind and don't be afraid to try something elsewhere in the list other than the top, because there may be a synergy with your headphone that brings out the best in the amp. 

 I try to make it a point to listen to them with most of my full size and IEM headphones, portable or not - but that doesn't always make a lot of sense with headphones that would be difficult to use portably. When are you likely to see someone using an ipod and amp with the Denon D5000 or HD600 out and about, on the bus or library? I do it because they might be used in the hotel room or at work with the portable amp, and I have been only interested in amps with built-in DAC for that purpose. For non-DAC amps, using only portable headphones for the review makes sense (and we have plenty of P-51 reviews with Meridian CDP and Sony R-10 already out there already).

 So, Skylab has certain tastes or reasons for wanting to review certain products, and I have mine, and others will have their own reasons. I'm not terribly excited about reviewing an iQube (no DAC) and turned down the offer for a loaner a while ago, and Skylab doesn't want to review another iBasso - we just have to accept those things and move on.

 Cheers, and thanks Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

Wow, Larry - what an AWESOME post. Well said, and THANK YOU.

 I have always asked people to use this just as a starting point, and to also look at the great portable amp reviews written by you, and Miguel, in addition to mine, so get a fuller picture of what is available.

 Putting aside the Lisa III, which is awesome but very large for a portable, I do think the iQube and Mustang are currently at the top of the class, and are the amps I personally would want to own, if I were to buy a portable today, and money would be no object. If money were an object, I would still go with the Meier Move. If I needed a DAC, that would also make a difference of course.


----------



## nickknutson

Skylab,
 I think you should put your portable amp rankings in your signature...or your fav 5.

 Also, how would you compare the Diablo to the P-51? j/k, LOL


----------



## Greeni

Skylab,

 Given your enthusiastic review of the Mustang, what is it that you find Lisa III to better the Mustang and earns its top ranking ? 
 Thx


----------



## Skylab

At the very, very top of the list, the differences are mighty small. But the Lisa III has a sense of dynamic impact, in addition to all it's other great qualities, that the Mustang and iQube miss by just a whisker.


----------



## jvlgato

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I can tell you that any of the amps Skylab has ranked in the #1-10 place (or even #11 based on other's feedback) are probably fantastic and "good enough". I own a #3, #4, #7 and #8 ranked amp, and have heard the other amps that were tied for #3 and #7. While my preferences in sound may be slightly different, I understand completely how he came up with his rank. Most of them sound extremely good or very good, but some do some things better than others, and few do EVERYTHING right.

 I think the 4 amps that Skylab has placed in the #1 and #2 spot (with ties) are kept separate with a blank line from the rest of the amps because they are the ones he feels do just about everything right. But, he hasn't tried every headphones with them, and there will be some that don't sound their best with those amps. So, you may buy an amp high on his list, and not like it and wonder how he could have ranked it so high, or find an amp that is amazing and wonder why he didn't make it #3. I say keep an open mind and don't be afraid to try something elsewhere in the list other than the top, because there may be a synergy with your headphone that brings out the best in the amp. _

 

Larry, 

 Which headphones and sources do you usually find yourself listening to for your 'good enough' system away from home? And is your 'good enough away from home' rig different from and if so, much worse than, your bedside rig?


----------



## Levy

I hope for the P-51.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jvlgato* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, 

 Which headphones and sources do you usually find yourself listening to for your 'good enough' system away from home? And is your 'good enough away from home' rig different from and if so, much worse than, your bedside rig?_

 

Lately I have several levels of portable vs bedside rig

 1. iPhone 3G without amp directly into Livewires or Klipsch Image X10 or Nuforce NE-7M with mic. This is actually my most used portable rig now, but only since I got the iPhone 2 months ago. iPhone 3G has surprisingly good sounding headphone out jack.

 2. 3G 8gb Nano with Predator into any of the IEM above, or with RS-1 or Edition 9 (both with 6 foot APS V3 cable and 1/8" plug). This used to be my most popular portable rig till I got the iPhone 3G, and the Nano leather case is velcro'd and strapped tight to the Predator and difficult to separate. The Nano/Predator stays in my fanny pack in the car or safari vest during the summer, but during the winter lives in the pocket of my polar fleece vest and goes everywhere with me. Soon, the 3G Nano will changed to a 16gb 4G Nano. This is surprisingly close to the iMod rig, but not quite as spacious and transparent (but close).

 3. 80gb iPod 5.5G iMod into ALO portable Vcap dock into iBasso D3 (replaced the D2 Viper). The iMod rig is usually for bedside visiting mother-in-laws, or hotels when traveling, or when going to a meet and using it as a spare source. I like the 80gb capacity but don't like the headphone out, so an amp has always been important hence doing the iMod to it. When not traveling the iMod stays in my DLO HomeDock HD with optical digital out into my main rig.

 4. Macbook into Predator or iBasso with any of the above headphones when mobile or traveling (or Pico at home when I leave the others in the car). The Macbook is where I use the amps the most, hence only buying DAC/amps since March. I can enjoy this in the bedroom, living room, basement, kitchen, back deck. 

 The Pico is often used as a home DAC/preamp for my Woo GES and EF1 in the basement/living room rig, and I don't tend to travel with it or use it mobile to keep it safe. It truly serves me well as a high end home DAC/pre-amp, and sounds better with the Stats than my Apogee sometimes. The other portables in my profile also stay at home as backups in case my car is broken into and gear is stolen, as I only tend to use the Predator, iBasso D3 and Pico for Nano, iMod and Macbook. 

 5. My bedside rig is a little bit better than my portables - Sony D-NE20 PCDP with optical and iRiver H140 optical into Headroom Micro DAC into Travagans Red with AD743 opamps and Black power conditioner. This is a small but noticeable step up from the portables for driving full size headphones like HD600, D2000, RS-1 and Edition 9. If I move the head-Direct EF1 to the bedside it is a formidable and competant rig. Still, any of the portable rigs are very enjoyable and could serve as my bedside rig if need be.


----------



## flargosa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Update 11-11-08*
 The Mustang, according to Ray, can deliver more than 2 times the amount of current that a Tomahawk can_

 

How is current related to gain? Will high current increase SQ of low ohm headphones & iem?


----------



## Gberg

hey.. just wondering if someone can help me decide what would be the best amp for using my UM2s with an ipod.

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (Lower price is also better!)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *flargosa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How is current related to gain? Will high current increase SQ of low ohm headphones & iem?_

 

Refer to Ohm's law:

 I = {V} / {R}

 where I is the current in amperes, V is the potential difference in volts,and R is a circuit parameter called the resistance (measured in ohms, also equivalent to volts per ampere).

 So for a given voltage, you will get (or require!) more current if the voltage is held constant but the impedance (R, in ohms) is lowered.

 Low impedance headphones need more current to achieve the same level of gain (here represented by voltage). If the current is limited, gain can be restricted with low impedance headphones, and sound quality can suffer.


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, what are you doing responding? Aren't you supposed to be in a trip enjoying life?


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey.. just wondering if someone can help me decide what would be the best amp for using my UM2s with an ipod.

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Lower price is also better!)_

 

Try an iBasso d3 it sounds excellent,for half the price of others!


iBasso


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gberg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey.. just wondering if someone can help me decide what would be the best amp for using my UM2s with an ipod.

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Lower price is also better!)_

 

There is not a huge difference on the UM2 with or without amplifier. They already sound great.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob, what are you doing responding? Aren't you supposed to be in a trip enjoying life? _

 

Yeah, I am only reading/posting on head-fi while I am in airports 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And Hello from Oulu, Finland.


----------



## dadozen

I don't think that low/high current has something to do with low/high impedances. 

 For me, high current will drain more power from the battery but will deliver more "power" to the amp circuit to drive whichever headphones are being used.


----------



## weinerproc

why no Rudistor XJ-03?


----------



## Malakei

Awesome reviews, im looking for an upgrate to my LDM+ without losing portability, any suggestions? Obviously anything above it your rankings but im looking to keep the price point down [street price used] as im working on saving for a Wadia iTransport so i dont want to blow a big wad on a portable amp. Which of the amps on your list do you think best suited jazz/rock whilst being very portable as in close to, equal to or better then the LDM+?


----------



## Malakei

Also can anyone produce a corresponding list 1 through 25 of the street price of these amps used on head-fi? or even ones they know? im looking for a value componenet here


----------



## Headphile808

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Malakei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome reviews, im looking for an upgrate to my LDM+ without losing portability, any suggestions? Obviously anything above it your rankings but im looking to keep the price point down [street price used] as im working on saving for a Wadia iTransport so i dont want to blow a big wad on a portable amp. Which of the amps on your list do you think best suited jazz/rock whilst being very portable as in close to, equal to or better then the LDM+?_

 

First of all Skylab you did an incredible job on the amp review, it was the reason why I joined Head-Fi. How about the Meir Headsix? At $145, It has to be one of the best deals around. Skylab has it ranked 7th on his list, all the other amps in his top 10 are all 2-3 times the price. Just a suggestion, I was gonna get a Headsix then I read Skylabs review on the RSA P-51 Mustang. Review blew me away! 
 Pre-Ordered one shipping this week!! Might wanna check it out & good luck replacing your LDM+. Happy Holidays!
 Headphile808.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all Skylab you did an incredible job on the amp review, it was the reason why I joined Head-Fi. How about the Meir Headsix? At $145, It has to be one of the best deals around. Skylab has it ranked 7th on his list, all the other amps in his top 10 are all 2-3 times the price. Just a suggestion, I was gonna get a Headsix then I read Skylabs review on the RSA P-51 Mustang. Review blew me away! 
 Pre-Ordered one shipping this week!! Might wanna check it out & good luck replacing your LDM+. Happy Holidays!
 Headphile808._

 

Thanks for the kind words. And I think your suggestion of a Meier XXS/HeadSix is excellent


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all Skylab you did an incredible job on the amp review, it was the reason why I joined Head-Fi. How about the Meir Headsix? At $145, It has to be one of the best deals around. Skylab has it ranked 7th on his list, all the other amps in his top 10 are all 2-3 times the price. Just a suggestion, I was gonna get a Headsix then I read Skylabs review on the RSA P-51 Mustang. Review blew me away! 
 Pre-Ordered one shipping this week!! Might wanna check it out & good luck replacing your LDM+. Happy Holidays!
 Headphile808._

 

I don't think you will be disappointed. It has its own musical realm and journey should be fun.


----------



## tamu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the kind words. And I think your suggestion of a Meier XXS/HeadSix is excellent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi 
 this is my first post after spending months reading the forums.
 First thing I did after spending some time on head fi was to get my self a decent headphones. decided on alessandro ms-1s, OMG never had phones like this and Im very happy. changed my experience..
 There is a new EU rule; every portable music player will have volume caps on them which is about 50%. This wasnt enough for my Ms-1s so I needed an amp so I got headsix.
 Everything has changed in my experience after recieving and plugging it in to my Ipod .. I know some says amping from ipods jack does not change anything but it actually it does. Some people just got so used to proper amped outputs that they just miss the change in all aspects of the sound.
 I have an sony home theather connected to my PC via optical and the sound is very rich out of the sony amp but when compared the same tracks out of headsix I notice a huge difference(how important is the purpose built component!). Everything is more controlled out of headsix except bass being a bit weak. In a portable setup I say headsix is a bang for the buck. Everyday after work I just rush to my house to listen to my jazz through headsix and MS-1s. Without any doubts I will recommend headsix to anyone!
 Dont forget every headsix bought contributes to Head Fi forums.


----------



## Brighten

Skylab, how would you compare the Pico amp to the Eddie Current Lunchbox you used to own?


----------



## Skylab

These are not comparable. The Pico is a great portable, but it does not compare to the tubed home amp Lunchbox - I prefer the Lunchbox.


----------



## Brighten

Ha, shut down. Thanks! 

 But would the difference be as large with low impedance/high sensitivity headphones? I mean, would the Pico offer 80-90% of the performance of the Lunchbox? 

 Sorry I am being so persistent...


----------



## Skylab

*> Storm Little-2*

 (Info: Storm-Amp - but in Chinese only).

 I was asked by the designer to review this amp. I have had very mixed feelings. Some Storm amps have been good, and others – not so good. This one looks nice, is nice and small, and at $120 is attractively priced. And it sounds pretty good, but does have a “flavor”. See below.



*Build Quality:* A: The nicest build of a Storm amp I have seen – includes built-in rechargeable battery, and a USB charging cable – very nice. One little issue – “Storm” was misspelled twice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But there was no noise, hiss, or any other issues.
*Treble:* B+: The treble is reasonably neutral. Unlike some other Storm amps, the treble is very clean. However, it is dark -the amp lacks extension and air compared to my reference amps. It mated much better with my Senn PXC350 than with my AT ESW9. The treble that is there is pretty smooth, so this is more of a flavoring than a problem.
*Midrange:* A-: The mids reasonably clean, transparent, and neutral. Good performance for the money Skye Edwards’ voice on Morcheeba’s “Trigger Hippie” was rendered well, sounding right – not too think or too plump.
*Bass:* A-: Good bass quantity, and reasonably tight and well defined. Good performance here as well. I got the kind of gut-wrenching bass I expect from Morcheeba’s “Moog Island”.
*Neutrality: *B+: Too “dark” to be really called neutral, but not in a way that got in the way of the music once you were used to it, provided you are not trying to use it with dark-sounding headphones.
*Soundstaging:* B+: good width, good depth. Average performance here – many amps I have heard do better, but nothing really problematic.
*Transparency:* A-: Quite good performance here, for the price class. Essentially clean and grain-free sound. 

 At $120, the Storm Little-2 is a nice, full featured, very small portable amp that sounds good with the right headphones. It’s very quiet operation will make it just the ticket to mate with IEMs that the owner things are a little too bright.

*Conclusions (12/11/08)

 NOTE: All new reviews have to be added to the end of the thread due to the length of this post - only the rankings will now change. I have put in links to the posts with the reviews.
*
 OK, so now it’s now 44 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III
 2. Qables iQube
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE)
 4. RSA SR71
 4. RSA The Predator
 5. RSA The Hornet “M”
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid
 8. Decware Zenhead
 9. Xin Reference
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08)
 10. ALO Double Mini3 
 10. Headamp AE-2
 10. Graham Slee Voyager
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3
 13. Portaphile V2^2
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) 
 15. Storm Little-2 
 15. Storm B4
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1
 18. Microshar uAmp107
 19. Practical Devices XM4
 19. C&C XO
 19. iBasso T2
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## ddoingwell

I'm aware that many other head-fi types have passed on high praise for Skylab's excellent work herein, but I just had to toss in some more. 

 I've had the "Review: Portable amp roundup!" page bookmarked for much longer than I've been a head-fi member (found it on a Google search) and have referred to it and all the add-ons umteenmillion times. I never get tired of the info and find something new that I'd missed every read through. Saying THANK YOU to Skylab just doesn't seem like enough...

 Sadly and probably neglectfully, I have not read everyone's varied contributions to this thread and there are a few amps, albeit minor players, that I'm curious about and don't seem to come up in the searches I've done on this thread: 

 HOTAUDIO40's TPA6120A2 Based Headphone Amplifier with a 32 Step Digital Rotary Encoder Volume Control

 and 

 Little Dot MK1/MK1+

 Any comments lads?

 Thanks and cheers from Tropical Far North Queensland Australia where Christmas is mango season. Thanks again Skylab; I raise a mango in your honor sir.


----------



## Skylab

(Blushing) Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I appreciate the mango!


----------



## Brabus9999

Hi Skylab,
 There is nothing I can say that hasn't already been said before, so I'll just say thanks for taking the time and making the effort to provide this superb review. Your insight is priceless to a newbie on a limited budget like me. I've lost count of how many times I've gone over it again and again. Excellent work!

 Gritt


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brabus9999* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Skylab,
 There is nothing I can say that hasn't already been said before, so I'll just say thanks for taking the time and making the effort to provide this superb review. Your insight is priceless to a newbie on a limited budget like me. I've lost count of how many times I've gone over it again and again. Excellent work!

 Gritt_

 

Thanks! It is posts like yours that make the effort worthwhile


----------



## davidw89

Possible to review the iBasso D3?


----------



## Skylab

Unlikely. But I assume you read Larry's excellent review?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...uforce-306883/


----------



## jvlgato

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unlikely. But I assume you read Larry's excellent review?

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...uforce-306883/_

 

Just wanted to also say thanks. This thread and Larry's thread you just noted are the two I check on the most regularly in the last few weeks. Thanks to both of you!

 Also sorry about that bad transaction I saw in another thread but can't find now. It really stinks period, but especially when you were trying to do someone a favor. I wonder if there shouldn't be a blacklist thread?


----------



## peta10dye

Hey Skylab,

 Just to echo everyone else, cheers mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 fantastic review you've done an imense labour, I think valued by all. You helped me, one of the fairly newbies, get a handle on a number of the best amps out there & your review was hugely influential in my plumping (Damn! poor wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for the fantastic RSA P-51


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peta10dye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Skylab,

 Just to echo everyone else, cheers mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 fantastic review you've done an imense labour, I think valued by all. You helped me, one of the fairly newbies, get a handle on a number of the best amps out there & your review was hugely influential in my plumping (Damn! poor wallet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) for the fantastic RSA P-51 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X2! - I ordered red-ended gold-knobbed black P-51 today! Even spoke with Ray himself. W3s will be very happy


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys! Glad I could help.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Rob, don't forget you should get the iBasso D3, D2 Boa and Nuforce Icon Mobile sometime between Saturday and Tuesday. You don't have to ship them out till the following week - the D2 and Nuforce go back to me and the D3 goes to Casey at Nuforce. I know you only plan to review the D3, but feel free to listen to them all with jvlgato and maybe add the others to the review too?


----------



## HK_sends

Skylab,

 Your review of the P-51 was the tipping point for me. While my wallet hurts, my ears are in Heaven! Thanks for all your effort in your reviews.

 Kudos!

 -HK sends
 RSA P-51 Mustang s/n 008


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob, don't forget you should get the iBasso D3, D2 Boa and Nuforce Icon Mobile sometime between Saturday and Tuesday. You don't have to ship them out till the following week - the D2 and Nuforce go back to me and the D3 goes to Casey at Nuforce. I know you only plan to review the D3, but feel free to listen to them all with jvlgato and maybe add the others to the review too?_

 

Oh, I haven't forgotten! Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to listen to these. How much gets reviewed here all depends on time. The D3 will happen for sure, but I like to follow my procedures identically for all amps, and the amps you send haven't arrived yet


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I haven't forgotten! Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to listen to these. How much gets reviewed here all depends on time. The D3 will happen for sure, but I like to follow my procedures identically for all amps, and the amps you send haven't arrived yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The D3 doesn't have to get to Casey till the 13th or 14th, and there is no time limit to return the D2 and Nuforce. They shipped priority mail on Tuesday.


----------



## Pale Rider

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab,

 Your review of the P-51 was the tipping point for me. While my wallet hurts, my ears are in Heaven! Thanks for all your effort in your reviews.

 Kudos!
_

 

I completely agree. Skylab's review was *the* key influencer in me purchasing the P-51 [all gold, #009] for my first portable and serious headphone amp. Thanks Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D3 doesn't have to get to Casey till the 13th or 14th, and there is no time limit to return the D2 and Nuforce. They shipped priority mail on Tuesday._

 

OK cool, thanks - I will try to review them all - we shall see


----------



## Headphile808

x3 Skylab Reviewerus Prolificus. Main influence & creator of My current wallet-burning Head-Fi addiction. I just ordered a RSA P-51 Mustang as well (Clear/White w/Black Knob). Thanks, Skylab for helpling w/My 1st portable setup.
 Happy New Year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## Cooler13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks guys! Glad I could help._

 

You sure did. Impressive review list. I'd have a request/recommendation tough. On the final ranking could you post the price (even approx) ? Or maybe add also rankings based on budgets (say under 100, under 300).
 Kudos to you.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, that is something I will get to at some point here


----------



## darkninja67

Thanks for the review Skylab. It definitely helped me decide to go with a RSA amp.

 Now I am waiting for HA's impressions on the P-51.


----------



## mrarroyo

Skylab, I am out on a trip/vacation. Upon my return I will contact you to send the SR71, MiniBox-E+, etc.


----------



## Skylab

Awesome Miguel, have fun on your vacation! 

 The D3, D2, and NuForce are all here, thanks to HeadphoneAddict, and will all get added to this review thread by this time next week.


----------



## davidw89

May i ask how many hours of burn in the D3 has (i just got a D3 and burning in, just wondering how many hours to get it to that new level, pink noise and fm radio/flac collection is how i'm doing it)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May i ask how many hours of burn in the D3 has (i just got a D3 and burning in, just wondering how many hours to get it to that new level, pink noise and fm radio/flac collection is how i'm doing it)_

 

In my review I ran my D3 with music for over 300 hours before I started the review, and stopped counting after 600 hours (by thanksgiving). But right out of the box it sounded about as good as my rolled D2 Viper with LM4562/LM6172 opamps in it. It made only small improvements with burn-in.


----------



## 40760

Hi Skylabs,

 Nice reviews, I sold my Mustang P-51 and acquired an i-Qube because of taste differences. It is really worth it.

 Thanks for your opinions too.


----------



## rvikul

I just ordered the the P-51 Mustang based on the review. I have a Zune 80 + Shure SE530 and hopefully this will be a nice fit. I was leaning towards the tomahawk initially, but in the long run I figured I would be better off with a more well-rounded amp. It does cost more though.

 Now the wait... 1. For the amp to arrive and 2. to see if the wife is going to bury me alive or not.

 Great review! Many thanks Skylab. Will post back with impressions (if wife decides to let me live).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Skylab, the D3 has new Energizer AA batteries in it. I was using my eneloop and rayovac low internal resistance NiMH on vacation. You may want to try it with some enelopp batteries if you have them, as Jamato8 says it has a positive effect on the sound.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Larry. I have no such batteries, though.

 Initial listening to the D3 has been very promising - it sounds very, very good.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry. I have no such batteries, though.

 Initial listening to the D3 has been very promising - it sounds very, very good._

 

Since all my reviews have been using the DAC and Amp together for 95% of the listening, it will be interesting to read your take on the amps. 

 I basically test the analog input with the iMod to make sure it doesn't suck like the stock D1 with analog input, and confirm that the sound is close to that when the DAC is the source.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry. I have no such batteries, though.

 Initial listening to the D3 has been very promising - it sounds very, very good._

 

The D3 is a very nice unit indeed, hope Larry sent you the P3. If he did I wonder w/ what op-amp combo.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since all my reviews have been using the DAC and Amp together for 95% of the listening, it will be interesting to read your take on the amps. 

 I basically test the analog input with the iMod to make sure it doesn't suck like the stock D1 with analog input, and confirm that the sound is close to that when the DAC is the source._

 

Indeed, since I will not be using or testing the DAC at all - I will be reviewing it as a headphone amp from the analog input only.


----------



## davidw89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry. I have no such batteries, though.

 Initial listening to the D3 has been very promising - it sounds very, very good._

 

I run 5 of these:
Amazon.com: Sanyo Eneloop 4 Pack AAA NiMH Pre-Charged Rechargeable Batteries: Electronics

 You should buy 2 packs = )

 How good is Rayovac?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidw89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I run 5 of these:
Amazon.com: Sanyo Eneloop 4 Pack AAA NiMH Pre-Charged Rechargeable Batteries: Electronics

 You should buy 2 packs = )

 How good is Rayovac?_

 

The Rayovac "Hybrid" NiMH are nice, and they hold a charge for months like the eneloops. I actually have the eneloop in my ipod video glasses and ATH-ANC7 N/C headphones (3+1=4) with a spare set of 4.

 I have 8 Rayovac total and typically use 5 in the D3, and 3 in my Harmony universal remote. It is a royal pain to charge 5 batteries and the Rayovac cost $20 for 4, so I put new Energizer in the D3 for Skylab before I shipped it and kept the Rayovac so they didn't get tossed by accident.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, since I will not be using or testing the DAC at all - I will be reviewing it as a headphone amp from the analog input only._

 

Still, you must try the DAC, even if just for your own knowledge! The D3 USB DAC is better than the D1 USB DAC or 2MOVE DAC, and closer to the D1 using optical.


----------



## qusp

HeadphoneAddict;5231345........... I actually have the eneloop in my ipod video glasses..........[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> What are they??? they sound mad. can you use them at the same time an amp?? well I guess you can either way by using the HP out. I assume they use the dock connector?? pics please or linky?? please larry


----------



## mrarroyo

qusp, eneloop is a rechargeable battery made by Sanyo. They have low internal resistance and remain charged at about 85% after a year of storage. Check: SANYO eneloop | Ready to use Rechargeable Battery - The only battery you will ever need


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are they??? they sound mad. can you use them at the same time an amp?? well I guess you can either way by using the HP out. I assume they use the dock connector?? pics please or linky?? please larry
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, the iPod video glasses plug into the headphone out and use the extra conductor for component video out, while providing built in earphones (halfway decent). So, I can privately watch a video with a simulated big screen, like on a plane, without needing to carry a big 7" external screen. I have the iMod LOD to amp plugged into the bottom, to use with nicer IEM.

 I'll try to get a photo later.


----------



## oogabooga

These? I always wondered about them - do they give you fatigue? How long can you comfortably watch for?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'll have to check mine, they are either MyVu or Nyko, and they are fine for a full length movie. Never tried them longer than that.


----------



## Bandeira

Hello guys, 

 I wanted to know the price on Amps from the SQ list but couldn`t ask anyone to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So did it myself. Don`t know if anyone has done this prior to me, but here it is. For some I really could not find anywhere official about the price.
 It would be great to update the first post with it!!

 Cheers, 


 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $925.00
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here) 
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 19. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 19. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Bandeira!


----------



## davidw89

You might want to update the first page = ). Prices in USD of course.

 Not surprising, the higher end sounds significantly better.


----------



## Skylab

I will do that as soon as I update with my review of the iBasso D2, D3, and NuForce amps.


----------



## slwiser

I personally think the Nuforce Icon Mobile should be listed here at some level. Maybe this is one the Skylab is working on. For the price it is a true value.


----------



## Skylab

I will have the NuForce added to this review with the iBasso D3 and D2 very soon.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will have the NuForce added to this review with the iBasso D3 and D2 very soon._

 


 Even though this may have been mentioned earlier, I have to suggest that Skylab...or someone...include the SR71a on their growing portable amp comparison lists. This amp seems to be well recieved by almost all...but there is no "formalized" comparison review out there and I can't understand why. The SR71a is arguably RSA's "statement product" and it has really flown under the radar, with it's omission from the review lineups creating an obvious hole (when often several, or all other RSA amps are included). 

 The newer P-51 has gained far more spotlight and reviews...even though there are less in circulation right now. My assumption is that the P-51 has caught more interest because it is smaller and around $75 less expensive. But how does it sound compared to it's nearest release mate...who knows? 

 Some may argue that it's not worth the review because they are no longer available. However, there are enough out there that they will be circulating in the used forums for many years to come.....and someone wishing to pick one up will be able to if they're patient.

 Just my $.02.

 Edit: Ironically...a fresh P-51 vs. SR71a comparison thread was posted as I was typing this


----------



## peta10dye

Hi Skylab,

 First, must say I fully agree with everything said about and am loving the pretty spectacular P-51 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Second, was just wondering, being a bit of a basshead myself (I know, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), which of your top rated amps would tend to favour bassheads (Slight, lol), if not actually the P-51. Interested to know which of your top few have the most/biggest bass punch, though loving what the P-51 is doing. Seems like you've all got me on that wallet destroying trail 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ah well, loving the ride 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. - Bandeira, nice work on the pricing list


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though this may have been mentioned earlier, I have to suggest that Skylab...or someone...include the SR71a on their growing portable amp comparison lists. 

 [snip]

 Edit: Ironically...a fresh P-51 vs. SR71a comparison thread was posted as I was typing this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

mrarroyo is sending Skylab one to add to the review.


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mrarroyo is sending Skylab one to add to the review._

 

Hmmm.....mrarroyo has an SR71 and sold his SR71a as far as I know....so I assume it's actually an SR71 coming Skylab's way?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm.....mrarroyo has an SR71 and sold his SR71a as far as I know....so I assume it's actually an SR71 coming Skylab's way?_

 

Maybe it was Jamato8, I am confused. Sorry.


----------



## mrarroyo

Yes I sold my SR71A, but the SR71 is going to Rob. BTW, IMO the SR71 sounds more open, extended, clean, and with more detail than the SR71A.


----------



## Skylab

Wait - I have already reviewed the SR71 - it's in the rankings - I don't need to do it over again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So for now I guess I am NOT reviewing the SR71A.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peta10dye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Skylab,

 First, must say I fully agree with everything said about and am loving the pretty spectacular P-51 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Second, was just wondering, being a bit of a basshead myself (I know, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), which of your top rated amps would tend to favour bassheads (Slight, lol), if not actually the P-51. Interested to know which of your top few have the most/biggest bass punch, though loving what the P-51 is doing._

 

As long as we are talking about amps that do not use a bass boost, then the answer is the P-51 is as good a bass amp as there is, although lots are good.


----------



## Skylab

*Update 1/4/09*

 HeadphoneAddict was nice enough to loan me the 3 following amps for review. While all three incorporate USB DACs, and I did very briefly listen to their USB DACs, the comments below refer to them being used ONLY as headphone amps, driven by my iMod iPod from their analog inputs. HeadphoneAddict has done the definitive review of these products as DAC/AMPs, and my review has only ever been about them as portable amps.

*> iBasso D3 Python*

iBasso

 The D3 Python is nice looking, well built, and medium-large portable headphone amp. It does not have a facility for charging batteries (that I could tell). Does have a USB DAC, and gain switch.

*Build Quality: A:* Very attractive and sturdy chassis. Much nicer than previous generation iBasso products.
*Treble: A-:* The treble is reasonably clean, transparent, and neutral. The treble is just a little soft, and lacks ultimate air and extension. I don’t think the treble is a problem, though, unless you try to use it with dark or rolled off sounding headphones. This was evident in comparison to the very extended but smooth treble of the Qables iQube.
*Midrange: A:* Nicely open, transparent, and clean sounding. The mids were smooth and enjoyable, if just slightly warm (which is better than the alternative). Nothing truly special, but nonetheless excellent performance.
*Bass: A-:* Full, punchy, and well defined. Enjoyable bass on music like Steely Dan’s “Babylon Sisters”. Could have a little better depth. But it was very enjoyable nonetheless.
*Neutrality: A:* The most neutral sounding iBasso ever IMO. In fact, I was surprised to find it more neutral than several other amps I have heard, which went through the review process recently. Would be A+ if it were not for the very slight treble reticence and added midrange warmth. For me, a better amp for Beyers or Grados than for Sennheisers.
*Soundstaging: A:* Great depth and width, and a very palpable image. Excellent performance here. Nice wide presentation of Alison Krauss and Union Station’s live recordings.
*Transparency: A-*: Occasionally just a bit thick sounding, but generally very transparent. 

 The D3 Python is the best iBasso yet by far. It’s a great performer, and at its price, and with the nice built in DAC, it’s a great product. I still felt it wasn’t quite as detailed as the Meier 2Move, and another head-fier who did some comparative listening with me agreed, but that doesn’t take away from how good the iBasso is. The Meier is a little more neutral. If you want a great amp/DAC combo and want your sound just a little warm/mellow, the D3 Python is an excellent choice.

*> iBasso D2 Boa*

iBasso

 With regard to the D2 Boa – In general, it has a sonic signature close to the D3 Python, but seems to have an overall lower level of performance. It was a little less clean, a little less transparent, with a less well defined soundstage, less treble detail, and less bass definition. It has the same basic sonic signature but the mids are a little more colored, and has an even more noticeable lack of treble extension. You can basically take my rankings for the D3 and just take them all down a half-grade. 

 It is a good value for the money at its price of $165, But for those wanting just a headphone amp in this price range, the Meier XXS is a much better choice. If you DO want an amp/DAC combo, I would save up for the D3 Python. It’s noticeably better and not that much more. 

 If you look at the rankings below, you will see I think the D2 fares well. But against competition from its own D3 brother, it does not quite measure up. The D2 Boa is a nice product , and its owners will be quite pleased with it. I can recommend it enthusiastically only to people who have a strict budget and need a amp/DAC combo.

*> NuForce Icon Mobile *

Nuforce, Inc

 The NuForce Icon is incredibly light, and fairly small. It’s also very cheaply built. It has no actual power switch, but comes on when you plug in headphones – which I don’t like. It has a gain switch, which is hard to operate. 

*Build Quality: B-:* See above. It was also fussy in terms of its headphone jacks. I know it’s wrong to expect much build quality from a $99 amp/DAC, but you sure don’t get it.
*Treble: B:* Piercing, bright, aggressive, and somewhat unclean treble compared to any of the better amps here. Not truly dreadful in absolute terms, but the amps main liability. Unless you have VERY dark, rolled off headphones, BE CAREFUL. The NuForce’s treble is kind of scary. Downright unpleasant with my Beyer headphones. Better with the AT ESW9’s, but they are pretty forgiving. 
*Midrange: B+:* Slightly forward, and with a noticeable chalky grain. Decent, but not great. Vocals have some extra presence which is can be nice, but is not real.
*Bass: A-:* The bass was very good. Both powerful and deep. Not world class, but not as problematic as the above
*Neutrality: B:* Generally not very neutral. Forward and bright sounding. VERY careful headphone matching will be needed, and with something like the Ultrasone 780, it will be just plain awful.
*Soundstaging: A-:* Convincing image stability, and reasonable width combined with excellent depth give it a good score here.
*Transparency: B+:* At times it seemed very transparent, and with other material, it was not at all. The aggressive, forward sound signature just didn’t give the illusion of transparency.

 I guess the best thing I can say about the NuForce is it’s cheap. But I didn’t really care for its sound. My recommendation is to save your money for something better.

*Conclusions (1/4/08)*

*NOTE: All new reviews have to be added to the end of the thread due to the length of this post - only the rankings will now change.*

 OK, so now it’s now 47 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $925.00
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 19. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 19. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## Headphile808

Excellent update Skylab, still confident that purchasing the "P-51 Mustang" was the best decision I have made yet since joining Head-Fi. Thanks for all your help, could'nt of done it w/o you.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphile808* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent update Skylab, still confident that purchasing the "P-51 Mustang" was the best decision I have made yet since joining Head-Fi. Thanks for all your help, could'nt of done it w/o you.
 Aloha
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Headphile808_

 

Ditto!

 -HK sends


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Update 1/4/09*

 HeadphoneAddict was nice enough to loan me the 3 following amps for review. While all three incorporate USB DACs, and I did very briefly listen to their USB DACs, the comments below refer to them being used ONLY as headphone amps, driven by my iMod iPod from their analog inputs. HeadphoneAddict has done the definitive review of these products as DAC/AMPs, and my review has only ever been about them as portable amps.

 [snip]

*> NuForce Icon Mobile *

Nuforce, Inc

 The NuForce Icon is incredibly light, and fairly small. It’s also very cheaply built. It has no actual power switch, but comes on when you plug in headphones – which I don’t like. It has a gain switch, which is hard to operate. 

*Build Quality: B-:* See above. It was also fussy in terms of its headphone jacks. I know it’s wrong to expect much build quality from a $99 amp/DAC, but you sure don’t get it.
*Treble: B:* Piercing, bright, aggressive, and somewhat unclean treble compared to any of the better amps here. Not truly dreadful in absolute terms, but the amps main liability. Unless you have VERY dark, rolled off headphones, BE CAREFUL. The NuForce’s treble is kind of scary. Downright unpleasant with my Beyer headphones. Better with the AT ESW9’s, but they are pretty forgiving. 
*Midrange: B+:* Slightly forward, and with a noticeable chalky grain. Decent, but not great. Vocals have some extra presence which is can be nice, but is not real.
*Bass: A-:* The bass was very good. Both powerful and deep. Not world class, but not as problematic as the above
*Neutrality: B:* Generally not very neutral. Forward and bright sounding. VERY careful headphone matching will be needed, and with something like the Ultrasone 780, it will be just plain awful.
*Soundstaging: A-:* Convincing image stability, and reasonable width combined with excellent depth give it a good score here.
*Transparency: B+:* At times it seemed very transparent, and with other material, it was not at all. The aggressive, forward sound signature just didn’t give the illusion of transparency.

 I guess the best thing I can say about the NuForce is it’s cheap. But I didn’t really care for its sound. My recommendation is to save your money for something better.
_

 

*1)* I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY ON THE D3 and D2 REVIEW. Like you, I also like the Meier Headsix/XXS a little more than the D2 boa. Then again, I also liked the D3 and TTVJ just a little more than the Headsix (though still a little below the Pico/Predator/3MOVE). We don't have to agree on everything, especially when the amps in 1st - 8th place are so close. 


*2)* With the D2 Boa, I thought the mids colored female vocals a little in the low mids and on some headphones they were a little recessed vs the D3 Python. *Based on your commentary* about the D2 Boa and after I subtract the recommended half grade in each area, for D2 Boa I get:

*Build Quality: A:* Does this drop a half-grade too?
*Treble: B+:* It has the same basic sonic signature as D3 but has an even more noticeable lack of treble extension.
*Midrange: A-:* It has the same basic sonic signature as D3 but the mids are a little more colored.
*Bass: B+:* Less bass definition than D3.
*Neutrality: A-:* More colored than D3.
*Soundstaging: A-:* Less well defined than D3.
*Transparency: B+:* It was a little less clean, a little less transparent than D3. 


*3)* With the Nuforce review I didn't think it was as bad as you did. I didn't feel the highs were piercing - bright and aggressive yes, but not shrill. I also didn't think the mids were chalky as much as they were forward and a little etched at times. With headphones that are recessed in the mids this helps bring out better midrange definition, like with D2000. Also, the case was redesigned to allow more headphones to fit, and anyone who bought from the first batch before 12/16 can get a free case replacement. Here is how I would have used your rating system with *my feelings on the Nuforce*.

*Build Quality: B:* See above. It was also fussy in terms of its headphone jacks. A new case is being sent to buyers who bought prior to 12/16/08 which will allow a wider variety of headphones to fit the recessed jacks.
*Treble: B:* Bright and aggressive at times, not as refined as some of the other amps here. Not truly dreadful in absolute terms, but the amp's main liability which makes it not my first choice for Grados, while not piercing or sibilant. 
*Midrange: B+:* Slightly forward, and with a slight grain. Decent, but not great with the wrong headphones. Vocals have some extra presence which is can be nice to fill in the mids of some recessed headphones like D2000.
*Bass: A-:* The bass was very good. Both powerful and deep. Not world class, but not as problematic as the above
*Neutrality: B:* Generally not very neutral. Forward and crisp sounding. Careful headphone matching will be needed, and with something like the Ultrasone 780 it might be just plain awful. But with something like a D2000 which has less mids than the D5000 the match is much better.
*Soundstaging: A-:* Convincing image stability, and reasonable width combined with excellent depth give it a good score here.
*Transparency: B+:* At times it seemed very transparent, and with other material, it was not at all. The aggressive, forward sound signature just didn’t give the illusion of transparency.

 Basically I told someone else the D3 is like a german Sport sedan (smooth and refined) and the Nuforce is like a quick hopped up japanese import (lively and snappy).


----------



## jvlgato

I had the very good fortune of spending some time at skylab's place (and what a nice place it was!); with a brief amount of time (about an hour) with my RS2's, I would lean more toward what headphoneaddict heard w/ the Nuforce. Nuforce not quite as refined in the mids and highs, a little aggressive and edgy, but not terrible, and very good in other realms. Considering its price and minuscule size, I quite liked it! I REALLY liked skylab's 2Move A LOT. I thought the iBasso's were fine, but I wasn't bowled over by them. A little too polite, a little lacking in detail, IMHO.


----------



## jaykay

Nice review as always Skylab. I really thought my head-fi journey was winding down..I figured the last move I make would be to send my d2000 to Alex for a recable job. However, the more I look into your review and HeadphoneAddict's, the more I want a 2move/3move. I loved my porta corda mkIII while I had it and actually do miss the sound. Perhaps I can get lucky and score a second hand 2move for a good price in the next month or so. Anyways, thanks for the great reviews on all the amps!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jvlgato* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the very good fortune of spending some time at skylab's place (and what a nice place it was!); with a brief amount of time (about an hour) with my RS2's, I would lean more toward what headphoneaddict heard w/ the Nuforce. Nuforce not quite as refined in the mids and highs, a little aggressive and edgy, but not terrible, and very good in other realms. Considering its price and minuscule size, I quite liked it! I REALLY liked skylab's 2Move A LOT. I thought the iBasso's were fine, but I wasn't bowled over by them. A little too polite, a little lacking in detail, IMHO._

 

I'm glad you got to spend the time with Rob and the amps, and enjoyed it. It makes it all worthwhile in sending them out there. Originally it was just going to be the D3 Python except for your wanting to hear the other two as well.

 So, I assume you are now going to email Meier about whether they have any discounted B-stock 2MOVE available for sale?


----------



## tseryan

I read that the Denon D2000/D5000 don't improve much with amping. In regards to the Denon D2000, how did the Predator fare over the Pico? I'm having trouble deciding between the two amps having never heard either one. My source is my PC and my headphones are the D5000s, and since the amping may not improve my headphones much, would I be better off with the better DAC? Or do amps still change the acoustics of the music even if the headphone doesn't use all the power?

 I have an iBasso D3, but the RF problem has left me in search of a different amp. I definitely notice that the DAC does make a difference in the audio quality compared to the on-board sound card. I'm sure the amp aspect contributes as well, but I'm mostly sure it's the DAC that makes the largest difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tseryan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read that the Denon D2000/D5000 don't improve much with amping. In regards to the Denon D2000, how did the Predator fare over the Pico? I'm having trouble deciding between the two amps having never heard either one. My source is my PC and my headphones are the D5000s, and since the amping may not improve my headphones much, would I be better off with the better DAC? Or do amps still change the acoustics of the music even if the headphone doesn't use all the power?

 I have an iBasso D3, but the RF problem has left me in search of a different amp. I definitely notice that the DAC does make a difference in the audio quality compared to the on-board sound card. I'm sure the amp aspect contributes as well, but I'm mostly sure it's the DAC that makes the largest difference._

 

The D2000/5000 most certainly benefit from a good amp. 

 If you are using your PC as your main source, I would pair your D5000 with any of the top DAC amps like Pico, Predator or 3MOVE. All of them have a DAC that sounds better than the one on my Macbook or iMac 20" Intel. The D2000 and the MD5000 DE that I reviewed do very well from Pico and Predator, and I have tried the D2000 with 3MOVE and they do very well together also. But vs the D5000 my D2000 have slightly recessed mids which the 3MOVE helps to fill in a little (Didn't have 3MOVE to try with the borrowed modded D5000). 

 My personal choice for D5000 would be the Pico since the DAC is top notch and it gives them a very nice wide open soundstage with plenty of current output to drive low impedance phones without getting too sloppy. However, the 3MOVE offers the ability to run entirely from USB power without needing to keep it plugged into the wall or to keep a battery in it that will run down.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*1)* I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY ON THE D3 and D2 REVIEW. Like you, I also like the Meier Headsix/XXS a little more than the D2 boa. Then again, I also liked the D3 and TTVJ just a little more than the Headsix (though still a little below the Pico/Predator/3MOVE). We don't have to agree on everything, especially when the amps in 1st - 8th place are so close. 


*3)* With the Nuforce review I didn't think it was as bad as you did. I didn't feel the highs were piercing - bright and aggressive yes, but not shrill. I also didn't think the mids were chalky as much as they were forward and a little etched at times. With headphones that are recessed in the mids this helps bring out better midrange definition, like with D2000. Also, the case was redesigned to allow more headphones to fit, and anyone who bought from the first batch before 12/16 can get a free case replacement._

 

I don't expect us to agree on everything, although I think in the main, we actually do. I spent some extra time with the NuForce just to be sure of my findings, since jvlgato also liked the NuForce more than I did. This is what I thought of it. YMMV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jvlgato* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the very good fortune of spending some time at skylab's place (and what a nice place it was!); with a brief amount of time (about an hour) with my RS2's, I would lean more toward what headphoneaddict heard w/ the Nuforce. Nuforce not quite as refined in the mids and highs, a little aggressive and edgy, but not terrible, and very good in other realms. Considering its price and minuscule size, I quite liked it! I REALLY liked skylab's 2Move A LOT. I thought the iBasso's were fine, but I wasn't bowled over by them. A little too polite, a little lacking in detail, IMHO._

 

Nice having you over, and I was glad to get a chance to listen to the DACs with your set-up. I didn't feel that the DACs changed my feelings about the amps much versus the line inputs, although i do think the NuForce sounds better via USB than via analog.


----------



## a_tumiwa

this topic need to be upgraded, where is the topic starter ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this topic need to be upgraded, where is the topic starter ..._

 

?????

 I am the topic starter - no clue what you mean, though...


----------



## kostalex

42 amps instead of 37, I suppose


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## kostalex

Sorry, 47


----------



## Skylab

Ahhh...for some reason, when i try to change the thread topic, it does not change. Not sure why. If there is a mod who happens to be reading this, and wants to change the thread name to 47 amps, please feel free


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't expect us to agree on everything, although I think in the main, we actually do. I spent some extra time with the NuForce just to be sure of my findings, since jvlgato also liked the NuForce more than I did. This is what I thought of it. YMMV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Nice having you over, and I was glad to get a chance to listen to the DACs with your set-up. I didn't feel that the DACs changed my feelings about the amps much versus the line inputs, although i do think the NuForce sounds better via USB than via analog._

 

My understanding is that the Nufore also sounded better to you as first impression and it was as you spent more time with it that you determined where it could be improved.

 I regret that I didn't spend enough time with the Nuforce via analog input, so the USB DAC that I used most of the time could explain why I liked it a little more than you.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My understanding is that the Nufore also sounded better to you as first impression and it was as you spent more time with it that you determined where it could be improved.
_

 

Not exactly. Via the USB DAC, and via unfamiliar headphones, and on just a quick listen, I thought it sounded OK. But when put through a level-matched, comparative test with my own headphones, I was less than impressed.


----------



## badbad2000

I felt the same as reviewed by Skylab for D3. When I listen the D3, something is lacking compare to Mustang. Treble and bass just not enough for my taste. But no doubt, D3 is good for value.

 Just wonder any similar review done for full size amp? It's an enjoyment to read. Good afford by Skylab.


----------



## tseryan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The D2000/5000 most certainly benefit from a good amp. 

 If you are using your PC as your main source, I would pair your D5000 with any of the top DAC amps like Pico, Predator or 3MOVE. All of them have a DAC that sounds better than the one on my Macbook or iMac 20" Intel. The D2000 and the MD5000 DE that I reviewed do very well from Pico and Predator, and I have tried the D2000 with 3MOVE and they do very well together also. But vs the D5000 my D2000 have slightly recessed mids which the 3MOVE helps to fill in a little (Didn't have 3MOVE to try with the borrowed modded D5000). 

 My personal choice for D5000 would be the Pico since the DAC is top notch and it gives them a very nice wide open soundstage with plenty of current output to drive low impedance phones without getting too sloppy. However, the 3MOVE offers the ability to run entirely from USB power without needing to keep it plugged into the wall or to keep a battery in it that will run down._

 

Since the DAC makes the biggest difference, should I wait for the Pico DAC-only and see how that performs? I don't mind shelling out for the Pico DAC+AMP, but if the amp aspect does not make a marked difference, then it does not seem worth it. I also have a pair of Westone 3s which I use along with the D5000s, so I really don't need an amp at all?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tseryan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the DAC makes the biggest difference, should I wait for the Pico DAC-only and see how that performs? I don't mind shelling out for the Pico DAC+AMP, but if the amp aspect does not make a marked difference, then it does not seem worth it. I also have a pair of Westone 3s which I use along with the D5000s, so I really don't need an amp at all?_

 

Well, you gotta feed the DAC into something like an amp. I was only giving you choices of which ones to consider. I feel that any of the three DAC amps I mentioned work well with the Westone 3 and D2000, but I have not tried the 3MOVE with a D5000; although Skylab has and he ranked the 3MOVE and Pico amp as a tie in his review. I recommended the Pico because you want it for a computer and it's DAC is better than 3MOVE, while Skylab is only reviewing the amp not the DAC. I have a review of 12 DAC/amp combos that I am drawing suggestions from.


----------



## kostalex

Larry, why do not you put the link to your review into the sig?


----------



## Dominat0r

Just picked up a Lyrix Pro USB ....was wondering what opamp came in that stock?

 Would my AD8610 work in that? or would i need 2 with the adapter?

 Cant wait for it to get here...finally upgrading my very first amp ever purchased (Govibev3/AD8610)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kostalex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, why do not you put the link to your review into the sig?_

 

It's in my my public profile, with other review links in the about me section.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just picked up a Lyrix Pro USB ....was wondering what opamp came in that stock?

 Would my AD8610 work in that? or would i need 2 with the adapter?

 Cant wait for it to get here...finally upgrading my very first amp ever purchased (Govibev3/AD8610)_

 

It comes with the AD8397 and sounds very nice - you may not want to change opamps. I think it uses an LM6172 in the ground channel (4-channel amp). It's at least as good as the Meier Headsix.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It comes with the AD8397 and sounds very nice - you may not want to change opamps. I think it uses an LM6172 in the ground channel (4-channel amp). It's at least as good as the Meier Headsix._

 


 thanks larry =)


----------



## Byrnie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not exactly. Via the USB DAC, and via unfamiliar headphones, and on just a quick listen, I thought it sounded OK. But when put through a level-matched, comparative test with my own headphones, I was less than impressed._

 

I'd be very interested in seeing what you thought of the Cute Beyond amp and see where you rank it compared to the others you have ranked. I love mine but I'm curious if there's better portables out there.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Byrnie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be very interested in seeing what you thought of the Cute Beyond amp and see where you rank it compared to the others you have ranked. I love mine but I'm curious if there's better portables out there._

 

He did a review of the Cute beyond and compared it to a couple of desktop amps - REVIEW: Firestone Audio iCute Headphone Amplifier and Fubar III USB DAC/Headphone Amplifier - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 I did a review too and compared to a few desktop amps and Headroom Micro Amp portable, and think a few portables come close to matching it in both sound and power, like the HR Micro Amp 2006, Pico, 3MOVE, TTVJ portable Millett hybrid and maybe the PD XM5. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ar-iii-334293/


----------



## Skylab

Right - and the Cute Beyond is not a portable amp


----------



## Byrnie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right - and the Cute Beyond is not a portable amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Skylab: Ahh my mistake

 HeadphoneAddict: Thanks for the links I should have searched first, sorry about that.


----------



## Dominat0r

just got my Lyrix in the mail....indeed its a great sounding amp...havent tried it yet with USB. Im wondering if it will work with ASIO or KS?


----------



## jaykay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my Lyrix in the mail....indeed its a great sounding amp...havent tried it yet with USB. Im wondering if it will work with ASIO or KS?_

 

It will indeed work with asio. I haven't tried ks, but it was pretty easy to setup with asio4all on winamp on my laptop (running vista).


----------



## music_4321

Just a *BIG* thank you to Skylab & HeadphoneAddict for your efforts in reviewing all of these amps.

 Thanks to HeadphoneAddict I've had the NuForce Icon Mobile for some 3 weeks now - and yes, the sound via USB DAC is better than via analog input to these ears. And I think for $99 it's quite good value, though in my case I had to pay $175 due to postage and import duty ($45!!) charges.

 Thanks to Skylab I received the P-51 Mustang 3 days ago - 50 hours burn-in so far, and it's a great sounding little amp!!

 I'll wait a little longer and see if I may end up selling the NuForce as I don't listen to music through my PC as much as I do from my 160gb iPod.

 Yesterday I ordered (what I'm hoping will be) a quality LOD cable from _qusp_ and hope that'll make the Mustang sound even better.

 Thanks to both of you again


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_4321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a *BIG* thank you to Skylab & HeadphoneAddict for your efforts in reviewing all of these amps.

 Thanks to HeadphoneAddict I've had the NuForce Icon Mobile for some 3 weeks now - and yes, the sound via USB DAC is better than via analog input to these ears. And I think for $99 it's quite good value, though in my case I had to pay $175 due to postage and import duty ($45!!) charges.

 Thanks to Skylab I received the P-51 Mustang 3 days ago - 50 hours burn-in so far, and it's a great sounding little amp!!

 I'll wait a little longer and see if I may end up selling the NuForce as I don't listen to music through my PC as much as I do from my 160gb iPod.

 Yesterday I ordered (what I'm hoping will be) a quality LOD cable from qusp and hope that'll make the Mustang sound even better.

 Thanks to both of you again_

 

While I respect Skylab immensely, I don't agree with everything he says about the Nuforce Icon Mobile, although I am using it via USB almost exclusively. In doing my first comparison with my new Meier 3MOVE the other day I still find the Nuforce is not as bright and piercing and forward as he makes it out to be.

 With my woodied recabled D2000 and a couple of other headphones I feel the Nuforce is only slightly brighter and slightly more forward/agressive than the Meier 3MOVE, with slightly less bass than the 3MOVE. Although the 3MOVE is also more neutral, refined and transparent sounding with bigger soundstage, they sound like they could be cousins due to some areas of similarity in the sound signature.\

 PS: Thanks for the compliments


----------



## mrarroyo

We all hear differently! Plus we have different gear, music, etc. The thing to remember is that although there are differences they are not night and day, so any of the top 10 amps will make anyone happy. Yes they are that good.

 Remember, not everyone likes chocolate.


----------



## Skylab

Right - that is why it's good that you two guys have done the great reviews you have done - so people on this site have several large comparative reviews to help guide them.


----------



## slwiser

And that is an advantage to all of us that these guys have put so much time into inking their opinions for us.

 Thanks again all.


----------



## Dominat0r

Wow, im more impressed with the Lyrix pro USB. The DAC isnt bad at all....its actually kinda nice. 

 I was wondering something, the battery will charge via USB correct? Will the light turn on green when its recharged or does it stay green till its recharged? 

 I cant believe im even saying this, but even the bass boost is nice for my SR60s. Really gives them depth. 

 It pushes the 650s, not like a huge home amp, but its not terrible either...im still shocked it sounds the way it sounds.

 Also, what is the rating on the adpater? 15V @ how many mA?


----------



## Dominat0r

I just got done with some emails back and forth with Robert from Headphonia...he told me that the battery will not charge via USB. However, was able to get a adapter from him for 10$.


----------



## Bullseye

Nice list. Very informative. Where does the Fiio E5 stand?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words. Cannot answer your question though - never heard the Fiio.


----------



## Azoth

Great review Skylab.


----------



## Fuzzbox

Thank you for the time that you put into this review Skylab! It's always been a reference point for my portable amp selection.

 BTW, the Rudistor XJ-03 is not in the list, think it's got some good review. Hope to hear your comment for it soon.


----------



## LaurentD

Hi, It’s my first post here, and I want to thank Skylab for his review of all those AMP.
 And after reading all this thread ( OMG it’s a long way  )

 To Skylab >

 Here are my questions; as an audiophile, I need a” no compromise” portable gear…. But with some constraints
 With this idea, earphone will be UE PRO-11.
 So, I need an AMP to load it well

 According to your list, 
 Triad Audio Lisa III
 Qables iQube
 RSA Mustang P-51

 First, about Lisa, it seems to be large and his connections (both sides front and rear) are not very useful to carry it in the pocket even a small bag with all the cables connected.
 Do you have the measure of the Lisa (Hx LxP) ? I can’t find it

 Second, about the 2 others, do u think they could load EU-11 without *any* problem?

 And third, according to my tastes, I don’t want “any” sound coloration, and my key points are Transparency and of course sound stage.

 So :
 Lisa > a little bit to big to travel “in a pocket”… and not easy to carry it
 IQube > soundstage A-, and Transparency, Mid and Bass ….. A “only” rated
 P-51 > Transparency A “only”, Mid A++ ….. what does it means really…. Colored 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, if you can help me a little bit more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thx in advance
 Laurent

 Sorry for my English, I’m French


----------



## Skylab

I have never heard the UE 11 so I can't really help, but I would recommend the iQube if Neutrality is your most important consideration.


----------



## jc9394

Great review, your review is the reason I get a Hornet instead of Mustang. There so many used Hornet for a great price. Do you have any idea if SR-71A compare to iQube and LISA III?


----------



## FreeBlues

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaurentD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Triad Audio Lisa III
 Qables iQube
 RSA Mustang P-51

 First, about Lisa, it seems to be large and his connections (both sides front and rear) are not very useful to carry it in the pocket even a small bag with all the cables connected.
 Do you have the measure of the Lisa (Hx LxP) ? I can’t find it

 Second, about the 2 others, do u think they could load EU-11 without *any* problem?

 And third, according to my tastes, I don’t want “any” sound coloration, and my key points are Transparency and of course sound stage.

 So :
 Lisa > a little bit to big to travel “in a pocket”… and not easy to carry it
 IQube > soundstage A-, and Transparency, Mid and Bass ….. A “only” rated
 P-51 > Transparency A “only”, Mid A++ ….. what does it means really…. Colored 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, if you can help me a little bit more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thx in advance
 Laurent

 Sorry for my English, I’m French_

 

Laurent - I've had my UE-11's for about 18 months, own a Lisa and owned then sold an iQube. I have no experience with the P-51. Both the iQube and Lisa were excellent, no problems at all getting the UE-11's to sound their best.

 I LOVE the sound of the Lisa with these IEM's, much better than the iQube. That said, the Lisa is large, can be a problem to carry (I use mine only as a portable, but it is still a problem). The iQube is much more convenient. Based on your description I would probably recommend the iQube, it is very, very neutral sounding, almost sterile in some applications. The Lisa is musical, involving, detailed and a joy to listen to, big, wide, deep and intoxicating. The iQube will let you analyze the music without getting too involved.

 That make sense?

 Both are great amps, you will be happy eith either. I elected to keep the Lisa and have absolutely no regrets.


----------



## peta10dye

Hi Skylab,

 Just a quick question. Wondered if you would ever be considering looking at the E+ version of the Minibox, I was curious given that it seems to be getting quite a bit of interest, with it in some reviews now being placed above the SR71 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a couple of others very high on your review. Could the difference between E and later E+ versions be that much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow, thought I'd ask & would be interested in your thoughts


----------



## rueyloon

no review for the go vibe stuff ? interested to see where the go vibe vulcan stands.


----------



## LaurentD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have never heard the UE 11 so I can't really help, but I would recommend the iQube if Neutrality is your most important consideration._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FreeBlues* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Laurent - I've had my UE-11's for about 18 months, own a Lisa and owned then sold an iQube. I have no experience with the P-51. Both the iQube and Lisa were excellent, no problems at all getting the UE-11's to sound their best.

 I LOVE the sound of the Lisa with these IEM's, much better than the iQube. That said, the Lisa is large, can be a problem to carry (I use mine only as a portable, but it is still a problem). The iQube is much more convenient. Based on your description I would probably recommend the iQube, it is very, very neutral sounding, almost sterile in some applications. The Lisa is musical, involving, detailed and a joy to listen to, big, wide, deep and intoxicating. The iQube will let you analyze the music without getting too involved.

 That make sense?

 Both are great amps, you will be happy eith either. I elected to keep the Lisa and have absolutely no regrets._

 

Skylab, Freeblues, thx for your input.

 Freeblues, 

 1st why did you sold the iQube  you can PM me if you prefer
 2.what do you mean by "intoxicating" about the Lisa III
 3. how do you manage connectivity with 1/4 scale when you use it portable ( which source do u use ? ipod ? )

 BTW, when I read " The Lisa is musical, involving, detailed and a joy to listen to, big, wide, deep " ..... it's difficult for me to buy another one and have this sentence somewhere in my mind 

 thx again, 

 Laurent


----------



## paulr

I searched for info on the HR Total Bithead/Total Airhead on this thread and found some references to a few other people asking about it but no reports about the more recent incarnations. I bought a Total Bithead about 3 months ago so it's the current model or close to it. It's the only headphone amp I've owned so I can't make comparisons to other amps, but it seems to improve the sound of my mp3 players (Sandisk M260 and Cowon D2) with my MDR-V6 headphones. Unfortunately I bought it for use in a very specific setup, namely as a USB DAC for my Lenovo laptop playing into Peltor active noise cancellation headphones. The Peltor phones are a long way from audiophile quality but in my noisy office environment, the noise cancellation more than makes up for deficiency in the audio. The trouble is that 60 cycle hum from the Lenovo AC power supply leaks out the Lenovo USB port and through the Total Bithead and then somehow gets amplified in the Peltor noise cancellation electronics. The same thing happens with my Asus EEE PC when running on its AC adapter. It does NOT happen with either laptop when running on battery power. It does NOT happen with headphones other than the Peltors. It does NOT happen on my officemate's Mac Pro, even on AC power. 

 Anyway, I thought the idea of an outboard DAC was to take the analog audio stuff away from the noisy computer electronics, and the Bithead seems to fail at this notion. Once again I don't know at the moment whether other DAC's are any better. Maybe if I were willing to spend enough, I'd get a USB to SPDIF converter and then use an SPDIF DAC with optical input. At the moment it's just not worth it, I'd bought the setup to use my computer as a music source, but I just use my D2 instead (direct to the Peltors without the amp) and that works fine and the Bithead is just sitting here. I might put it on the sale/trade section. Or if Skylab wants to review it, I'd be happy to lend it.


----------



## vvanrij

Thanks to this review I bought the 3Move, and I am very happy with it!


----------



## Skylab

All:

 There have been quite a few new folks asking some questions and I thought I should make a quick post so everyone understands a couple things that have already been said in this thread, but since the thread is so long may not be obvious.

 1. I only review amps that are sent to me for review - I do not buy them for review (I did this in the beginning but even that was a very expensive proposition I could not sustain). In general I prefer NOT to review amps that are loaned to me from other head-fiers as this has caused some problems. So the amps I review need to be loaned by the amp maker.

 2. I do my best, but I cannot review EVERY amp there is out there. This is nothing more than a hobby for me - I do like to review stuff, but the time I have available for it is somewhat limited unfortunately.

 People are more than welcome to make suggestions for me to review amps, but I sure prefer them to be in the form of "Hey Skylab, have you ever thought of reviewing Amp A?" and NOT in the form of "Hey Skylab why haven't you Amp B yet?". I hope the difference there is clear and that you, my fellow head-fiers, will honor this simple and humble request.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peta10dye* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Skylab,

 Just a quick question. Wondered if you would ever be considering looking at the E+ version of the Minibox, I was curious given that it seems to be getting quite a bit of interest, with it in some reviews now being placed above the SR71 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a couple of others very high on your review. Could the difference between E and later E+ versions be that much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyhow, thought I'd ask & would be interested in your thoughts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I actually had planned to review the E+, but for some reason that I cannot recall, the plan fell through. I should look into that again


----------



## mark_h

Petition to make this thread a sticky!


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark_h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Petition to make this thread a sticky!_

 

X2. Excellent idea! Thanks for suggesting it.

 I wonder how many of us have made a great choice thanks to Skylab's reviews and other insights from Headfiers??? I know Skylab has done untold damage to my wallet....but I am smiling...!!!!


----------



## kbug

Great reviews! Thanks.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaurentD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, It’s my first post here, and I want to thank Skylab for his review of all those AMP.
 And after reading all this thread ( OMG it’s a long way  )

 To Skylab >

 Here are my questions; as an audiophile, I need a” no compromise” portable gear…. But with some constraints
 With this idea, earphone will be UE PRO-11.
 So, I need an AMP to load it well

 According to your list, 
 Triad Audio Lisa III
 Qables iQube
 RSA Mustang P-51

 First, about Lisa, it seems to be large and his connections (both sides front and rear) are not very useful to carry it in the pocket even a small bag with all the cables connected.
 Do you have the measure of the Lisa (Hx LxP) ? I can’t find it

 Second, about the 2 others, do u think they could load EU-11 without *any* problem?

 And third, according to my tastes, I don’t want “any” sound coloration, and my key points are Transparency and of course sound stage.

 So :
 Lisa > a little bit to big to travel “in a pocket”… and not easy to carry it
 IQube > soundstage A-, and Transparency, Mid and Bass ….. A “only” rated
 P-51 > Transparency A “only”, Mid A++ ….. what does it means really…. Colored 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So, if you can help me a little bit more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thx in advance
 Laurent

 Sorry for my English, I’m French_

 

the lisa III (with the right interconnects) is easily carried in a small bag; I use it 90% of the time, only swapping to the pico if i'm out in summer and do not want to bring my bag with me. I havent tried the IQube personally, but from my listening on many amps at meets, and through friends. it is simply the best 'no compromises' amp going. it will turn your daily commute into a magical mystery tour. with a SQ that is simultaneously transparent, natural, detailed, accurate, powerful and somehow magical and involving at the same time. This is a VERY difficult trick to pull off, most quality portable amps are a few of these things, but the lisa is the only one I have experienced that manages to have all these qualities that would otherwise seem to be impossible to have at the same time. If you are willing to sacrifice tiny size for awesome SQ there really is no other choice IMO and if you are going to get UE11, you are obviously serious about this. The lisa also needs a top notch source to do her justice. I have not heard such soundstage in a portable before and I would agree with the term intoxicating 100%; with UE11 it should be totally expansive, plus you will have the ability to use harder to drive headphones later on (fullsize) will do a great job of driving HD600 or similar 300ohms. for use with portable phones I either use a 1/4" to mini adapter, the type you are supplied with most decent IEM's or in the case of SE520 and soon IE8 I made myself a cable terminated in 1/4". and I use a DIYMOD 5.5G ipod and teflon VCAP dock of my own design that has RCA outputs on the back, just like the lisa, so I only needed to make 2 very short compact RCA cables.

 Iqube will be great if you value transparency over everything else, I have heard the iqube labeled boring, but maybe with UE11 that wont be a problem. the iqube is very much the 'wire with gain' type of amp, has great battery life, nice slick design despite the frustrating battery cover (I actually like the lisa more) so really they are both great, but i'm glad I chose the lisa thats for sure!!!


----------



## a_tumiwa

wow compare 47 amp and still going on...

 Skylab: why dont u test review Fiio E3 and E5?, that amps are very cheap that cannot hurt your pocket


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow compare 47 amp and still going on...

 Skylab: why dont u test review Fiio E3 and E5?, that amps are very cheap that cannot hurt your pocket_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5369141-post2277.html


----------



## jwbrent

Hi Skylab,

 When you reviewed the Practical Devices XM4, did it have the stock op-amp or the upgraded AD8260? If it was stock, I wonder how your impressions would change with the upgrade...


----------



## Skylab

Yes, mine was stock, and that is the only way I heard it.


----------



## a_tumiwa

skylab, what amps have the most quantity of bass? (not quality)


----------



## LaurentD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the lisa III (with the right interconnects) is easily carried in a small bag; I use it 90% of the time, only swapping to the pico if i'm out in summer and do not want to bring my bag with me. I havent tried the IQube personally, but from my listening on many amps at meets, and through friends. it is simply the best 'no compromises' amp going. it will turn your daily commute into a magical mystery tour. with a SQ that is simultaneously transparent, natural, detailed, accurate, powerful and somehow magical and involving at the same time. This is a VERY difficult trick to pull off, most quality portable amps are a few of these things, but the lisa is the only one I have experienced that manages to have all these qualities that would otherwise seem to be impossible to have at the same time. If you are willing to sacrifice tiny size for awesome SQ there really is no other choice IMO and if you are going to get UE11, you are obviously serious about this. The lisa also needs a top notch source to do her justice. I have not heard such soundstage in a portable before and I would agree with the term intoxicating 100%; with UE11 it should be totally expansive, plus you will have the ability to use harder to drive headphones later on (fullsize) will do a great job of driving HD600 or similar 300ohms. for use with portable phones I either use a 1/4" to mini adapter, the type you are supplied with most decent IEM's or in the case of SE520 and soon IE8 I made myself a cable terminated in 1/4". and I use a DIYMOD 5.5G ipod and teflon VCAP dock of my own design that has RCA outputs on the back, just like the lisa, so I only needed to make 2 very short compact RCA cables.

 Iqube will be great if you value transparency over everything else, I have heard the iqube labeled boring, but maybe with UE11 that wont be a problem. the iqube is very much the 'wire with gain' type of amp, has great battery life, nice slick design despite the frustrating battery cover (I actually like the lisa more) so really they are both great, but i'm glad I chose the lisa thats for sure!!!_

 


 hi qusp,

 thx for your msg. I'd passed last few days reading and reading posts here..... and as you'd said _it is simply the best 'no compromises' amp going. it will turn your daily commute into a magical mystery tour. with a SQ that is simultaneously transparent, natural, detailed, accurate, powerful and somehow magical and involving at the same time. This is a VERY difficult trick to pull off, most quality portable amps are a few of these things, but the lisa is the only one I have experienced that manages to have all these qualities that would otherwise seem to be impossible to have at the same time._

 so, i think I just have to think how to manage portability. it my only question now.
 I'll order Lisa, and after that looking for a small bag to carry it .

 thx all for your help


 Laurent


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_skylab, what amps have the most quantity of bass? (not quality)_

 

The ones with a bass boost (FiiO E3, E5, XM4, XM5, etc).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ones with a bass boost (FiiO E3, E5, XM4, XM5, etc)._

 

BINGO! If youw ant an AMP to provide extra bass, you need one with bass boost. The Lisa III has the world's best implemented bass boost, IMO.


----------



## mrarroyo

Two amps which do not get a lot of exposure anymore but have outstanding bass are:

 1. Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed
 2. Original Non M Hornet

 Neither has a bass boost switch but both have lots of high quality bass impact.


----------



## wolfen68

The SR71a also has an abundance of bass...maybe a bit much.


----------



## verjuno

great review


----------



## kiwirugby

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The SR71a also has an abundance of bass...maybe a bit much._

 

The Mustang P-51 ditto, save I think the bass is about right.


----------



## peta10dye

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually had planned to review the E+, but for some reason that I cannot recall, the plan fell through. I should look into that again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for that Skylab 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, hope you may get a chance at some point, will look forward to it


----------



## music_4321

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kiwirugby* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mustang P-51 ditto, save I think the bass is about right._

 

X2


----------



## mark___h

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but on the basis that the STORM B-4 ranking was affected by its pricing, and that its price has now dropped by nearly a half on eBay, do you continue to hesitate in recommending it?

 Hope not, as I've just brought one...


----------



## mark_h

A man after my own name /\


----------



## dfkt

"Heavyyy", as Neil would say.


----------



## mark___h

Dude!


----------



## Oggranak

Where would I be able to find a good sub-$200 portable amp in Ontario?


----------



## a_tumiwa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two amps which do not get a lot of exposure anymore but have outstanding bass are:

 1. Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed
 2. Original Non M Hornet

 Neither has a bass boost switch but both have lots of high quality bass impact._

 

Portaphile V2^2 = PA2V2 ???


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Portaphile V2^2 = PA2V2 ???_

 

No...Portaphile is much more power i believe.


----------



## donunus

pa2v2 seemed to have even less power than an ipod. maybe more volume but with more distortion and clipping at the same time


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark___h* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but on the basis that the STORM B-4 ranking was affected by its pricing, and that its price has now dropped by nearly a half on eBay, do you continue to hesitate in recommending it?

 Hope not, as I've just brought one..._

 

The RANKING was not affected by the price. The ranking is what it is without respect to price.


----------



## KLS

Sorry, a bit confused here.
 When you guys say Lisa III, does it mean the Lisa III Standard?

Lisa III Standard


----------



## KLS

I am very impressed with the reviews that SUPREMUS Skylab has done! Must be spending lots of time on them just to provide invaluable information to all the head-fiers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THANKS!!!


----------



## Skylab

Hi, and thanks. Yes, my review refers to the Lisa III Standard (which is the only Lisa III that was available when I did the review).


----------



## GTL

Any chance of doing a review of the updated minibox e the minibox e+ skylab?


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KLS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, a bit confused here.
 When you guys say Lisa III, does it mean the Lisa III Standard?

Lisa III Standard_

 

the only difference between the standard and XP version of the lisa III is the XP has a larger case and 50hrs run-time from the larger capacity battery pack (the only reason the case is larger) they both sound exactly the same, the boards are identical except for perhaps a slightly different charge circuit for the different battery


----------



## RIDE

It may have been said so I apologize in advance...but why is the Lisa III listed at $925?

 RIDE


----------



## Rpg2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RIDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may have been said so I apologize in advance...but why is the Lisa III listed at $925?

 RIDE_

 

I don't know the the actual answer to your question, but I would say it's probably due to the price of the components in the Lisa III.

 Hope it helps!


----------



## swayne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RIDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may have been said so I apologize in advance...but why is the Lisa III listed at $925?

 RIDE_

 

Supply and demand?

 For instance I would like a Ray Samuels Audio P-51 Mustang, and if it were $175 instead of $375 I'd buy one, so I suspect would lots of other people. But then Mr. Samuels would probably go out of business.

 I'm just waiting for the winter sales to start.

 ( Though the Lisa III is a fine amp it's too large for me ).

 Steven.


----------



## vkvedam

Few things don't come cheap in life my friend, you've got to pay the price for it. Lisa could be one of them.


----------



## imademymark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RIDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may have been said so I apologize in advance...but why is the Lisa III listed at $925?

 RIDE_

 

that price includes a dedicated power supply... it's not nearly that much without


----------



## TzeYang

yeah I lol'd IRL when i saw that.

 It's about 600USD.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RIDE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It may have been said so I apologize in advance...but why is the Lisa III listed at $925?

 RIDE_

 

yeah that is the price for th lisa III standard with LLP package; the amp only is $600 and the LLP separate is $350. didnt you buy the LLP with yours??


----------



## Skylab

I have edited the first post to reflect the Lisa pricing. Thanks all!


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have edited the first post to reflect the Lisa pricing. Thanks all!_

 


 cool; but the pricing is 
 Lisa III standard; 8hrs runtime ($600 shipped worldwide)
 Lisa III XP; 50hrs runtime ($675 shipped)
 Lisa Lab Power ($350)

 standard lisa and LLP set ($925USD)
 lisa III XP and LLP set ($1000USD)

 the LLP is not absolutely necessary, but certainly is very good and takes mine to another level of performance more like a fully fledged home amp. but for those outside the US finding a PSU that is the right regulated voltage can be problematic; so it really is a bit of a necessity. I dont mind the extra $$$ as it really comes in handy for charging or powering almost any audio device, as the voltage is adjustable with a screwdriver through a small hole in the front panel anywhere between 17-30v

 so you save $25 buying them as a set.

 Just reading through your thread again Skylab and it really is a fantastic resource; for noobs and veterans alike. i'm sooo spoiled to have 2 amps that are in the top 3 rankings; although its getting pretty crowded at #2 hehe. Now I just need to finish my iriver plus outboard dac (Gamma1) to go with the lisa III I can only dream of what it will sound like. I should get an idea in the next few days once I finish the gamma1 and try it out using the optical out on my RME into the gamma1 and then amped with the lisa III; should be something pretty special.


----------



## RIDE

Yeah folks...my question was not why the Lisa is worth the price....it was why it was listed at the price it was.

 If you had noticed my signature...I do own a Lisa III (paid $600 new for it direct from Triad). I did not opt for the LLP....yet (money issue)...so I am just using the recommended Elpac to charge her up. Works find by the way...just until I drop the coin for the LLP. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyway...I just wanted to be sure that the Lisa pricing was represented fairly, as one does not HAVE to invest in the LLP, rather a $30 (or so) Elpac will do the job of charging the unit.

 Thanks for the update Skylab....and I too really enjoy your amazing review resource. I refer to it often, and steer others to it as well. You have certainly provided a great service to a lot of people.

 Cheers,

 RIDE


----------



## a_tumiwa

i think the count of amp reviewed is not 47 but 46
 just count from the ranking list


----------



## imademymark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think the count of amp reviewed is not 47 but 46
 just count from the ranking list_

 

iirc an amp was removed because of the originality of the design was disputed (the copying was confirmed by kevin gilmore)


----------



## Sonicpath

Where is the D10 doctor?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *imademymark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iirc an amp was removed because of the originality of the design was disputed (the copying was confirmed by kevin gilmore)_

 

So, now (like in Harry Potter) that one is "The Amp which must not be Named."


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, now (like in Harry Potter) that one is "The Amp which must not be Named."_

 

Metrostation and Harry Potter... Larry, you're a real kid at heart.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brighten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Metrostation and Harry Potter... Larry, you're a real kid at heart._

 

You forgot Coldplay and Boys Like Girls.


----------



## a_tumiwa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, now (like in Harry Potter) that one is "The Amp which must not be Named."_

 

so how to call this ampli if it doesnt have name?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so how to call this ampli if it doesnt have name?_

 

It was Headphonia... BOOM! Lightning Strikes!


----------



## imademymark

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was _______... BOOM! Lightning Strikes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

gasp! ... you named he-who-shall-not-be-named! *runs for cover


----------



## jma790

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *imademymark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gasp! ... you named he-who-shall-not-be-named! *runs for cover_

 

The end is coming, the end is coming!!


----------



## acidtripwow

Quote:


 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK 
 

Where can you find the Voyager for $233? I thought they were like $350. From your list I would rank it higher because I really like mine. It pairs really well with my Ipod Video and Klipsch X5 IEMS. At $233 it's a steal!


----------



## swayne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *acidtripwow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can you find the Voyager for $233? I thought they were like $350. From your list I would rank it higher because I really like mine. It pairs really well with my Ipod Video and Klipsch X5 IEMS. At $233 it's a steal!_

 

The Voyager is available from Graham Slee's web site for £153.10 GBP + shipping. Using xe.com that is 219.82 USD.

 Steven.


----------



## imademymark

with the pound going south, it's becoming a better deal everyday for all you international folks


----------



## swayne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *imademymark* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with the pound going south, it's becoming a better deal everyday for all you international folks_

 

I thought all the currencies were going south 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I'd bought my amps when the Euro was 65p.

 Steven.


----------



## imademymark

the pound more than nearly anything else, although there's still zimbawe


----------



## paulw86

very good review by the op. Decided to get the 3MOVE for myself


----------



## swayne

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paulw86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_very good review by the op. Decided to get the 3MOVE for myself_

 

Mine turned up yesterday, switched it to low gain for my iGrado's and have hardly stopped using it.

 Steven.


----------



## a_tumiwa

cannot wait for the update


----------



## Gorthon

Hey Skylab, have you ever thought of reviewing the iBasso D10 amp? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Jaw007

I to would like to get another opinion on the iBasso D10 amp.


----------



## Skylab

Hey guys - I will have to see if I can get ahold of a D10 somewhere.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys - I will have to see if I can get ahold of a D10 somewhere._

 

Thank you Skylab for all of your unbiased reviews.We really appreciate your time,and hard work.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jaw007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I to would like to get another opinion on the iBasso D10 amp._

 

Look at HiFlight and Jamato8 comments: iBasso D10, smaller with same features as the D1. . . UPDATES 1st page . . images page 1, 12, 13, 14, 15, 21 . . . - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## Jaw007

Thank you for the info.All of those ears tell the same story the iBasso D-10 is Top's.


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys - I will have to see if I can get ahold of a D10 somewhere._

 

if you don't get any offers from the U.S. I'll send mine over for a review.


----------



## tranhieu

I know it sounds a bit studpid to ask something like this, but can the meier 2move drive the hd580? and especially the k501. Because I dont have enough money to spend on 2 seperate amps so one that can drive my hd 25 (surely it can) and my hd580 nicely is better. And i'm thinking about having a pair of k501 (used of course) if the 2move can power it. I know it's portable so I just need to power it the enjoyable level where I can experience its sound signature clearly, at least until I can save up enough for another full size amp


----------



## Skylab

Yes, the 2Move has different gain settings, so it can drive these headphones fine. Full-size home amps will be even better, but like you said, you can save up for one of those later. If you need a portable amp, then for sure start with that.


----------



## 521ztz

I would like to know what's the best amp for Westone 3 now?


----------



## kRze

Sweet roundup, thanks!


----------



## fungus amongus

Still hoping on the review of the ibasso D10. Been waiting patiently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Would very much appreciate it.


----------



## Edward Ng

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *521ztz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to know what's the best amp for Westone 3 now?_

 

P-51 Mustang

 -Ed


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fungus amongus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still hoping on the review of the ibasso D10. Been waiting patiently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Would very much appreciate it._

 

At this point one is still not planned. I do not have a D10, don't have plans to buy one, and have not been offered a review sample by iBasso.


----------



## Jaw007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *521ztz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to know what's the best amp for Westone 3 now?_

 

 A Meier [size=medium]CORDA 3MOVE[/size] is very nice,and very well built.German engineering!


----------



## dfkt

I got the Headsix, and it's not anywhere remotely as great sounding as the iBasso T4. Makes you wonder.... oh, and I'm anxiously waiting for my Minibox-E+


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point one is still not planned. I do not have a D10, don't have plans to buy one, and have not been offered a review sample by iBasso._

 

I've got about 400hrs on mine. If you're interested, I'll send it to you for review, seriously.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wuwhere* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got about 400hrs on mine. If you're interested, I'll send it to you for review, seriously._

 

That is a very kind offer, thank you.

 In general I don't like borrowing other head-fier's gear, just in the unlikely event something would happen, and also because I don't like to feel rushed when I am doing reviews, and I do feel rushed when I am using someone else's stuff, even if they have re-assured me to take my time. I just feel guilty about it


----------



## wuwhere

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a very kind offer, thank you.

 In general I don't like borrowing other head-fier's gear, just in the unlikely event something would happen, and also because I don't like to feel rushed when I am doing reviews, and I do feel rushed when I am using someone else's stuff, even if they have re-assured me to take my time. I just feel guilty about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

My offer is open just in case you decide to.


----------



## fungus amongus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At this point one is still not planned. I do not have a D10, don't have plans to buy one, and have not been offered a review sample by iBasso._

 

Shame on iBasso


----------



## Adamora

just a warning, the litte dot micro's site has a virus. i advise you not to go there for the time being.


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Hi there Skylab and everyone, 

 I was wandering Skylab if you was thinking of reviewing the C&C XO+ as i am not sure what improvement's there are to the first XO you reviewed and how much better it is going to be?

 I have spent a few hours reading the thread back to front now and am new on here and am looking for a portable amp and currently use a Cowon D2 16gb, Ipod Touch 2nd gen, Sony A818, with Shure E500's and Sennheiser IE8's and have dug out my old Beyer DT770's which i would like to use again with the players and am also thinking of burning even more cash possibly on getting AKG 701 or 702's (depending if there is a difference in sound quality between them both?)

 So what i really wanted to know bearing in mind my pirmary set up is my Cowon D2 and Shure E500's with AKG 701/2's around the corner which would be the best suited amp to go with them?

 So far, if i am not wrong just going by this thread i have narrowed it down to possibly Ibossa's, ASR's, Larroco PRII's, C&C XO+ and possibly Graham Slee Voyager (despite poor look build quility) But not sure which! 

 Someone with the knowledge and experience of those sources used please guide me! - be eternally gratefull, Thankyou


----------



## Skylab

At least right now, I have no plans to test it, although i would be happy to if it's maker wants to send me one to review


----------



## homers54321

hi skylab, i was just wondering if you've ever heard the pa2v2, penguin amp caffeine or royal blue? if so, could you tell me how it ranks with the other amps you reviewed. i would imagine it would be in the lower ranks. 

 also, im terms of size and portability (thickness being more important), would the nuforce and ibasso t4 be my best bet? thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *homers54321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi skylab, i was just wondering if you've ever heard the pa2v2, penguin amp caffeine or royal blue? if so, could you tell me how it ranks with the other amps you reviewed. i would imagine it would be in the lower ranks. 

 also, im terms of size and portability (thickness being more important), would the nuforce and ibasso t4 be my best bet? thanks_

 

I can chime in about the Caffeine Pro - the sound signature and soundstage sounds very similar to the Headsix and is just as good sounding to me. Very good bang for the buck. The Penguin Royal is also very good with a slightly more spacious soundstage.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *homers54321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi skylab, i was just wondering if you've ever heard the pa2v2, penguin amp caffeine or royal blue? if so, could you tell me how it ranks with the other amps you reviewed. i would imagine it would be in the lower ranks. 

 also, im terms of size and portability (thickness being more important), would the nuforce and ibasso t4 be my best bet? thanks_

 

Size and portability, the nuforce is the king. No doubt.

 I have not auditioned any of the other amps you asked about - glad HA was able to answer on some.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *homers54321* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi skylab, i was just wondering if you've ever heard the pa2v2, penguin amp caffeine or royal blue? if so, could you tell me how it ranks with the other amps you reviewed. i would imagine it would be in the lower ranks. 

 also, im terms of size and portability (thickness being more important), would the nuforce and ibasso t4 be my best bet? thanks_

 

Couple of other things, now that I have more time to reply.

 The T4 is smaller and more convenient than the Nuforce, but the sound of the two is different. The Nuforce is a little brighter and more forward than the T4 (but not as much when used via USB as via analog input), while the T4 is more of a warmer sounding amp. 

 So, you would pair those amps with different headphones - such as the Sennheiser IE8 with the Nuforce, and a Phonak Audeo with the T4. Sure other IEM like W3 sound good with Nuforce, or Denon D2000/Edition 9, while the T4 sounded good with W3 and K701 as well. But in general, you'd pair a darker or bassier phone with the Nuforce and a brighter phone with the T4.

 The top of the line amps are better at working with a larger variety of headphones due to their neutrality and transparency, so you will find less mismatches when you get a 3MOVE, Pico, Pedator, D10, XM5, Headsix, D3 and others for example (from ones I have heard).


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Hi Skylab,

 Just wandering with your fast experience if you could tell me which portable amp would be best suited to go with Shure E500's?

 I also have Sennhieser IE8's, Beyer Dynamic DT770 and would like ot get AKG 701/702 soon (if there is a porta amp that suits thia well)

 I know it may possibly be hard to get an amp to be compatable with all four, so primarily would want an amp that works well with the Shure's and AKG's.

 I use either a Cowon D2 & Ipod Touch 2gen & as the source and my budget i would say is upto $450.

 Would really appreciate if you could point me in the right direction to which amp you think would work best with the above mentioned. ; )


----------



## Skylab

For all those, I think I would go with the Mustang. It should do a nice job with all of them.


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For all those, I think I would go with the Mustang. It should do a nice job with all of them._

 


 Thank's for the recommendation, i think i will give them a try.

 I think more than likely i would be happy with any of those top 10 amp's, but just wanted to make sure whichever amp it was would defanetely be compatable with my headphones i have & want to get - (akg 701's).

 Just one question i have not thought of yet really Skylab is what sort of interconnect cable would be best to go between amp and the media player and where to get one from?

 Thank's for pointing me in the right direction Skylabwith the amp, really appreciate it and look forward to getting my order in with RSA


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FortisFlyer75* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank's for the recommendation, i think i will give them a try.

 I think more than likely i would be happy with any of those top 10 amp's, but just wanted to make sure whichever amp it was would defanetely be compatable with my headphones i have & want to get - (akg 701's).

 Just one question i have not thought of yet really Skylab is what sort of interconnect cable would be best to go between amp and the media player and where to get one from?

 Thank's for pointing me in the right direction Skylabwith the amp, really appreciate it and look forward to getting my order in with RSA
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I agree about the Mustang - it is impressive. Once I got over 400 hours of burn-in with my IE8 (and found the right tips - Sony Hybrid Silicone), I don't think the IE8 is way too bassy anymore. So IE8 does work with the Mustang, as do all of my other IEM like Westone 3, Westone ES3X, Phonak Audeo, etc...

 As for interconnect - I have several made by various head-fi members at decent prices ($40-60 each) that sound very transparent. You could PM any of them like barqy, -=Germania=- , stevenkelby or Punnisher to get a price quote on a mini-mini for the D2 or an LOD for the Touch (mask sure the LOD is iPhone compatible).


----------



## Edward Ng

My IE8s aren't too bassy anymore, either with my current tips and with my Mustang. The highs are out and shining now as well...quite interesting.

 Still burning away...

 -Ed


----------



## Skylab

For my own portable rig I use an ALO "Cotton" dock cable.


----------



## thechungster

Wow, that was probably the most detailed comparison/review I have ever seen ever...


----------



## ChroniCali

Great review!!!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys


----------



## FortisFlyer75

Cheer's Headphone addict, Edaward NG & Skylab,

 I am def ordering a Mustang from Ray when i get paid at end of month!

 I will have a look at all the sources mentioned for amp cable connector as after all i will need one (I know i will need two as apparantly i need a "lod" for the Touch), but not sure which would suit which player and phones or will a top cable be good with which ever player/phones i use?
 (am i worrying, being analytical to much!?)

 Also while i am here, can anyone point me in the right direction of someone who can repair/replace my cable for my Shure E500's as they have the notorious split problem and do not want Shure to touch them (poor customer service) and want a good quality cable that will last!

 Thank's guy's & to Skylab once again for the assistance with the amp, can't wait now to order one


----------



## CoMePunk

Great review!!!

 I'm interested in buying Corda 3Move. But I nocited in your review that some amp is not so good to be paired with IEM (causing some hiss). Is Corda 3Move good to be paired with IEM? I'm using UE SF5Pro.


----------



## dfkt

Speaking for the smaller Headsix, which is the quietest amp I've heard with low impedance IEMs, I'd say you're on the safe side with the 3Move.


----------



## Skylab

the 2Move is great with IEM's, in low gain mode.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking for the smaller Headsix, which is the quietest amp I've heard with low impedance IEMs, I'd say you're on the safe side with the 3Move._

 

Which potentiometer did Jan Meier use in the 3Move? If it is the same as he used in Headsix it has some troubles in the first 10% of the volume where right/left volume balance is really bad. And that is a problem using my ultra sensitive Super FreQs. I can only listen comfortably at very low volumes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which potentiometer did Jan Meier use in the 3Move? If it is the same as he used in Headsix it has some troubles in the first 10% of the volume where right/left volume balance is really bad. And that is a problem using my ultra sensitive Super FreQs. I can only listen comfortably at very low volumes._

 

The volume pot in my 3MOVE is much more accurate at low listening levels with IEM than my Headsix is.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The volume pot in my 3MOVE is much more accurate at low listening levels with IEM than my Headsix is._

 

Ok that is great then. For this very same reason I just bought the P-51 Mustang to replace the Headsix.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rasmushorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok that is great then. For this very same reason I just bought the P-51 Mustang to replace the Headsix._

 

Well, to be fair, the best volume pots I have used for IEM have been on my RSA amps, as well as my Micro Amp, Headfive, and WA6.


----------



## donunus

Question about the mustang... Are the batteries replaceable once they die? and compared to good home amps, how do they fare say against a kicas or an audio gd c2c


----------



## thechungster

Does the corda move (mk1) have a good synergy with the IE8?


----------



## Skylab

*> Music Max LT1*

 Info: Welcome to Audiophilechina

 I was asked by the exporter/distributor of this product, Audiophilechina, to review it. When it arrived, I was quite shocked about how much it looked like a RSA Tomahawk. I have to admit this initially dampened my enthusiasm for reviewing it. However, since RSA goes through great lengths (wisely, IMHO) to hide the key components of its amps, and since the resemblance is strong, but not exact, I forged on. One thing this amp does NOT have in common with the RSA TH is the price – the LT1 is $99.

*Build Quality*: A: Nice metal case (see comments above). Very well build and reasonably attractive. SMALL, but solid. There is some noise and hiss at higher rotations of the volume control, but the amp has a LOT of gain, and so this was not really an issue.

*Treble:* B+: a little grainy and veiled compared to the better amps here, and lacks absolute air and extension – but reasonably transparent. But it is definitely soft on top – something to be aware of in system matching. Wasn’t a good combination with my AT ESW9 in that regard, but was better with my Senn PXC350’s.

*Midrange*: A-: generally smooth sound not too forward, and clean enough, pleasant presentation, without the last word in transparency or openness. A little lush, which is a nice place to be, though. Vocals and string tone were natural sounding, and well served.
*
 Bass: *A: Very good definition and depth; nice and punchy and full. Very impressive for an amp in this price range. Double kick drum like from Sirenia’s “The Mind Maelstrom” was very impactful.
*
 Neutrality:* A-: not extended, slightly rolled off treble, is the main issue here, but with the right headphones, like say Ultrasones, if could be bliss.

*Soundstaging:* B+ Nothing really spectacular here, but nothing really shameful, either. A bit better with depth than width. The main issue is that there was no “out of the head” image placement at all.

*Transparency:* B+: The amp sounds nice, but just does not provide the “open window on the music” that better amps do. It takes only a few seconds of listening to the iQube to realize how big the difference is in this regard. Then again, the iQube is 5-6x the price!

 If you have only $99 to spend and want a decent portable amp, the LT1 is very easy to recommend. I was more impressed with it than I was the same-priced NuForce Icon. While I wouldn’t really call it a giant-killer, it certainly punches above its weight class. However, if you can spend just $60 more, the Meier Audio Headsix is a much better amp. But in the lower price classes, money buys a lot more improvement than it does at the higher end! For the asking price, the Music-Max LT1 gets an enthusiastic recommendation. 

*Conclusions (6/9/09)*

*NOTE: All new reviews have to be added to the end of the thread due to the length of this post - only the rankings will now change.*

 OK, so now it’s now 48 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## Bojamijams

Always helpfull


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Thanks!


----------



## GLdgShDjKsHT

Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 made my decision pretty simple


----------



## talan7

Skylab

 Could you recommend a portable amp for The Audio Technica AD700s that would provide good bass. One that works well with low impedance phones as the AD700 is 32 ohms. Something under $300.


----------



## Skylab

I have not heard the AD700's in a very long time, but if you can spend close to $300, the 3Move at $270 is the best amp under $300, IMO.


----------



## wilpower

thanks for the review


----------



## DoYouRight

Why not add the iBasso D10?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not add the iBasso D10?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5369141-post2277.html

 Basically, because I don't have one to review


----------



## jvlgato

Thanks, Rob! Always nice and thoughtful reviews, we appreciate it!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks John!


----------



## talan7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not heard the AD700's in a very long time, but if you can spend close to $300, the 3Move at $270 is the best amp under $300, IMO._

 

thanks, I'll take a look at it


----------



## Skylab

Dear head-fiers:

 There are a LOT of amplifiers on this list, and almost all of them are very good. Given how many there are, some very good amplifiers have ranks that might seem "low" to some people - but you really need to read the whole review to get a flavor of the amp, not just to look at the rankings. Not every amp can be in the top 10! And sometimes very good amps, especially ones that are in the lower price brackets, will be ranked lower but are very good, especially for the money. 

 So please, read the whole reviews, don't just look at the rankings.

 Thanks, and have fun!


----------



## jpelg

[size=xx-small]*Thanks!*[/size]

 Skylab,

 Thanks so much for taking on this endeavor initially, and (more importantly) keeping it continuously updated with new products as they become available over the years. I've come back to this thread repeatedly whenever I am interested in obtaining real info on an older or newer portable amp.

 This is obviously a labor of love for you, and one for which we are all greatly appreciative!


----------



## Skylab

Thank you! I really appreciate that!


----------



## bodine1231

Wow,thanks for this review,this will definately help with my next purchase!


----------



## Asahi

Oh very nice review. Now I have two choices for buy first is LT1 next is Storm 3. Which one is more good for Classic music and women singer [ Enya,Olivia]. I not have and idear for them because it was the same price.


----------



## Skylab

For Classical and female vocals, I would go with the LT1. It is a little lusher in the midrange, which will be better for those musical styles.


----------



## c-record

An enormous thanks to Skylab for the great work. Your advice/experience has been a lot of fun to read and learn from. Now my question is down to the final two: 3 Move vs. Mustang.

 I take it the Mustang does not have a DAC so the 3 Move comes out ahead here. It's li-ion rechargeable batteries correct?

 Thoughts on the 3 Move vs. Mustang ($100.00 price difference) with : AKG K701, Sennheiser HD 600, AKG 271K Studio, Audio Technica AD 700 and even Koss Porta Pro. Around the house it's the 701s & Audio Technicas mostly. Travelling it's the 271 Studios and Koss Porta Pros? All kinds of music-classical to rock. Folky rock & blues is a favorite.

 Thanks for the help-I know this get's pretty murky. Yes, I do have a home amp (Glow tube) to more properly drive these phones.

 Thanks again.


----------



## Skylab

Hi c-record - thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, I do not own any of the headphones you listed, and so cannot really help you there.

 The 3Move uses a standard user-replaceable 9V battery. I do not believe it has any charging facility so if you wanted to use a rechargeable you would need to have an external charger.


----------



## DoYouRight

With all the hype around the D10 I feel like my 3Move is out of the loop and old/behind the curve. Maybe I should not take such heft with reviews by enthusiasts especially those who don't have much to compare to. You and HeadphoneAddicts reviews are the best thanks for all your hard work!


----------



## Skylab

Thank you!


----------



## c-record

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi c-record - thanks f or the kind words. Unfortunately, I do not own any of the headphones you listed, and so cannot really help you there.

 The 3Move uses a standard user-replaceable 9V batery. I do not believe it has any charging facility so if you wanted to use a rechargeable you would need to have an external charger._

 

You were just supposed to tell me which amp and then I would have gone on in satisfied bliss. Based on your review of the Mustang - midrange excellence etc., I may have to plan for the extra $100.00 over the Meier. I do like that RSA is US for support.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all the hype around the D10 I feel like my 3Move is out of the loop and old/behind the curve. Maybe I should not take such heft with reviews by enthusiasts especially those who don't have much to compare to. You and HeadphoneAddicts reviews are the best thanks for all your hard work!_

 

I hope you get the opportunity to listen to the D10, specially w/ a TopKit by HiFlight. The D10 is a fantastic unit which competes with many home units IMO.


----------



## DoYouRight

Move and Pico are both 3 what is your oppinion on the differences Skylab?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Move and Pico are both 3 what is your oppinion on the differences Skylab?_

 

I'll toss my hat in the ring - to me the biggest difference - 3MOVE is richer more forward sounding, while Pico is more spacious and open sounding but a little more distant and a little less rich sounding. For example the 3MOVE's mids work especially better for my Denon D2000 headphones, but the Pico seems to work better with many of my IEM to keep the mids from drilling into my head.

 Second level of differences - - the Pico DAC is superior to the 3MOVE DAC, which is no slouch either.

 Third level of difference - Pico is slightly smoother in the highs than 3MOVE.

 Fourth level of difference - both with a lot of power, but 3MOVE seems to have more power for driving HD600 and 600 ohm K240M, but little difference with lower impedance phones.

 Final level of differences - 3MOVE is slightly bass'ier than Pico, which does not lack in bass at all.


----------



## Skylab

I agree with all of that (thanks Larry!), although I didn't really think the Pico was "smoother" in the highs, exactly - I think it was slightly more extended in the highs than the 3Move, but just slightly.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*TESTING METHODOLOGY:*

 For the review I used the following headphones: 

 •Sennheiser HD25-1 (primarily)
 •2005 Beyerdynamic DT770/32 ohm
 •2005 Beyerdynamic DT880/250 ohm
 •In later reviews, Denon D5000, AT-ESW9, Ultrasone HFI-780


 I listened to some with Shure E500’s, but that was not part of the “formal” test.

 Music used for the review:

 •Patricia Barber – “All or Nothing at All”, Nightclub
 •Holly Cole, “Looking for the Heart of Saturday Night”, Temptation
 •Crash Test Dummies, “In the Days of the Caveman”, God Shuffled His Feet
 •Dave Matthews, “Oh”, Some Devil
 •Jenny Lewis with the Watson Twins, “Handle With Care”, Rabbit Fur Coat.

 Listening was done with the levels matched to within 1db using a RS SPL meter, so that the listening volume level was identical with each amp. Source was a RedWineAudio iMod iPod, connected with an RnB Audio interconnect.

 No attempt is going to be made here to completely describe each amp – this has been done plenty of places on this site. Rather, I scored the amps based my listening in the areas of midrange, treble, and bass performance, transparency, neutrality, soundstaging, build quality, and other pertinent comments. I used an academic grading scale, but as in most academics, the lowest grade any of these amps got was a B-, since they were all pretty good.

 At the end I will rank each of them, but to start they are listen in alphabetical order. Also, in case there is any question, I purchased all of these amps with my own hard-earned money, and they are the stock amplifiers – no mods of any kind were done. Where there was a bass boost function, it wasn’t used._

 

Hello Skylab, thank you for the review.

 I'm curious why you didn't make use of the beatiful Victor JVC DX-1000? too much wood? I would really like to hear about this, well for moi, a fantasy headphone at the moment. I am quite stunned by what I read about from AudioCubes wrt the construction. BTW the reason I am so very smitten is that I just recently acquired the Victor HP-FX500 wood dome and housing IEM, and that has supplanted my entire IEM collection on every level. I can only imagine what the bigger boys are like... Im Qrious.


----------



## Skylab

The JVC DX1000, are, IMHO, not a logical pairing with a portable amp, and this is the main reason that I do not use them.

 But thank you for reminding me that the "headphones used" part of the Testing section needs updating


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The JVC DX1000, are, IMHO, not a logical pairing with a portable amp..._

 

Screw logic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...still enjoying this thread Rob.


----------



## Skylab

Dane, that's awesome!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dane, that's awesome!_

 

Thanks! 

 It _sounds_ awesome.


----------



## DoYouRight

Why get rid of the D5000/D7000 Skylab and keep the JVC only? I just heard Denons for the first time today, and OH MY GOD. The bass compared to grado is UNREAL. A head-fier brought over DT880s, and D5000/D7000 and man I loved all three more than anything I own. Want the 880s, but cant decide between the 5k and 7k.


----------



## Skylab

I got rid of the D5000 to get the DT770/600, which work better with my tube amps than the Denond did. But the Denons are nice cans!


----------



## T.IIZUKA

Hello Skylab,
 Thank you for the review.

 I am worried by STORM 3 and LT1. 
 STORM is a new model named STORM 3 CUSTOM. 

 Will you schedule Review to be done?

 The possession of the battery is not good and it is hesitant though Mini3 is within the budget.


----------



## Skylab

Hello - at this point I have no plans to review a new version of the Storm amp.

 I do have a new Visely amp in for review, though - the HEA-4.


----------



## T.IIZUKA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello - at this point I have no plans to review a new version of the Storm amp.

 I do have a new Visely amp in for review, though - the HEA-4._

 

Thank you for a quick response. 
 It looks forward to your review.


----------



## DoYouRight

Does the 770 have more bass? And what does going from 250ohms to 600 do to the sound sig?


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Screw logic! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...still enjoying this thread Rob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











_

 

Where do you carry that stuff?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hopeless* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where do you carry that stuff? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..same bag I use for my iPod dock










 ...iPod/SR-71A/DX1000 is just a 'round the house use rig.


----------



## T.IIZUKA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




..same bag I use for my iPod dock










 ...iPod/SR-71A/DX1000 is just a 'round the house use rig._

 

Wow!
 I also have thought.


----------



## DoYouRight

thats insane like a bomb


----------



## hopeless

Well all's insane here. I'm so happy to have my C&C BOX modified with LME49721 opamps (in place of the two AD822 that made the gain stage) and with Rubycon ZLH power caps (in place of the original Nichicon VR). Little work, great sounding amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Anyway, I think everyone should be more conscious of their real needs, and have amps (etc.) that are proportionate to the contents of the music they listen to. I see so many people around with $$$ portable amps (not to mention their costly jewel-like IEM's etc.) that listen to the most mediocre of music.


----------



## scoober22

This is my first post on head-fi and this thread was instrumental in getting me started. Just wanted to say thanks to Skylab for his time and effort in doing these reviews and to others for their input on this thread. Looking forward to learning more about this addiction, er hobby.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scoober22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my first post on head-fi and this thread was instrumental in getting me started. Just wanted to say thanks to Skylab for his time and effort in doing these reviews and to others for their input on this thread. Looking forward to learning more about this addiction, er hobby._

 

Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet!


----------



## scoober22

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to head-fi, and sorry about your wallet!_

 

Thanks HPA, I wish someone warned me beforehand! 

 I noticed you have paired the iBasso D10 and ATH-ESW10JPN's...do they match well with each other? How does it sound?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scoober22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks HPA, I wish someone warned me beforehand! 

 I noticed you have paired the iBasso D10 and ATH-ESW10JPN's...do they match well with each other? How does it sound?_

 

It sounds good - I believe I mentioned it in my big USB DAC amp review thread. (see public profile "about me" for links to my reviews). Everything sounds nice with D10, and ESW10 sound nice with all my amps.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scoober22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is my first post on head-fi and this thread was instrumental in getting me started. Just wanted to say thanks to Skylab for his time and effort in doing these reviews and to others for their input on this thread. Looking forward to learning more about this addiction, er hobby._

 

Thank you for your kind words, and welcome to our crazy hobby!


----------



## hopeless

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for your kind words, and welcome to our crazy hobby!_

 

But try not to get crazy like the hobby


----------



## brendon

Hi, I also bought the Meier Porta Corda III based on your review of it and I am very happy with the sound. Its much better than my old Cmoy based amp and the fact that it is also a DAC is an added bonus !

 Thanks a ton !


----------



## socalpimp

Has anyone reviewed the Vividaudiotech V1 in detail? I just got this off Ebay and with my Grado 325's it sounds really bright....Just wondering about others opinion with this V1.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *socalpimp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone reviewed the Vividaudiotech V1 in detail? I just got this off Ebay and with my Grado 325's it sounds really bright....Just wondering about others opinion with this V1._

 

I found the exact same thing with Grados in my review - see link: UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 In my review the V1 was great with HD600's, and you could pick up a pair of those from Blutarsky if you act fast and PM him.


----------



## Skylab

Steve Deckert from Decware sent me a new version of the Decware Zenhead to listen to. The amp has some improvements, which Steve explained as follows:

  Quote:


 The things that have changed have all been improvements to the original design, from sonics, to a longer circuit board to eliminate G-Forces from damaging the volume control when the unit is dropped. The sound can be substantial better with all lower impedance phones < 250ohms and most high efficiency phones of 600 ohms by setting the unit to LoZ output. Putting it in HiZ mode makes it exactly like it was when you heard it. HiZ mode will drive low impedance phones, as we already know. It's just that the LoZ to me sounds much better. You can hear the change on the fly. 
 

This was indeed my experience - the performance does improve quite a bit in meaningful ways, and as such, I updated the review, and I also raised the ZenHead in my ranking.

*> Decware ZenHead *

DECWARE / High Fidelity Engineering Co.

 NOTE: This review updated with new model July 09.

 I was asked by Decware, a maker of many high-end tube amps, to review their portable headphone amp, The ZenHead. When I received it, I was surprised about the size – it’s BIG. It’s as big as the Lisa III. It uses a 9V battery, and has no charging facility. Like the Lisa III, it’s really too big for many portable applications. Decware’s Steve Deckert said that he did not really try to keep the size down for the same reason that he didn’t include a batter charging circuit – he was going purely for the best sound he could. Certainly a good goal. However, while in the case of the Lisa III I felt the superior sonics could justify the size, the Zenhead is merely a very good, competitive sounding amp, that is really big. 

 OK, OK, but how did it sound???? Well, very good. Overall, I felt that Decware’s main business of selling tube amps shows in how the amp is voiced. It sounds like many tube amps I have heard. As such, its sound is a little idiosyncratic. I struggled some with the normal ratings I give, in terms of capturing the essence of the amp. On some tracks it sounded fantastic; on others, merely very good. In it's "LoZ setting" it was more neutral sounding than the "HiZ" setting, so I used this mode.

*Build Quality:* A: Pretty industrial, plain looking case, but very sturdy, and solidly built. No turn on/off thump. Totally silent also – no noise at ALL. No points for style, but none deducted for cheap plastics – it’s all metal.
*Treble:* A: Treble is quite clear. Very transparent. Maybe not as extended as the iQube, but still excellent. Better than in version 1. 
*Midrange:* A: Slightly lush, but very transparent, and clear. Highly engaging performance here. Again, better than in version 1 - liquid and smooth but with great nuance. 
*Bass:* A: The bass was excellent. Full, powerful, punchy. Lacked the very last bit of depth that the iQube has, but still truly excellent.
*Neutrality:* A: The new version is basically neutral in "LoZ" mode - maybe just a very slight warmth in the lower mids and upper bass, but not enough to be problematic. 
*Soundstaging:* A+: The ZenHead has selectable crossfeed. I found that its soundstage was deep and wide, and truly palpable. It excelled here, even better than the 2Move with the Meier crossfeed on. If you are a soundstage freak, this amp is for you.
*Transparency:* A: Definitely in the class of amps that presents a wide-open window on the music. Very good performance here.

 The V2 of the ZenHead offers a quite "tube-like" sound in "Hi-Z" mode, and a more neutral, very transparent sound in "Lo-Z" mode. This makes a very good amp even better. I like the ZenHead a lot - I just wish it were smaller.

*Conclusions (7-24-09)*

*NOTE: All new reviews have to be added to the end of the thread due to the length of this post - only the rankings will now change.*

 OK, so now it’s now 47 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## scoober22

Thanks for the updated review Rob. I went on the Decware site but the V2 does not show up. Did Steve indicate when this would be available or are all Zenhead orders being sent out with V2 version?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I like the ZenHead a lot - I just wish it were smaller.
_

 

Ditto for me


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Great job - I have about 5 pending reviews to complete before I am able to do a review of the Decware amp, so i am glad to see you got it done!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scoober22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the updated review Rob. I went on the Decware site but the V2 does not show up. Did Steve indicate when this would be available or are all Zenhead orders being sent out with V2 version?_

 

I will have to ask him, but my impression is that current orders get the version of the amp I just reviewed.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great job - I have about 5 pending reviews to complete before I am able to do a review of the Decware amp, so i am glad to see you got it done!_

 

I look forward to your comments - I think the Zenhead is a top-tier amp - will be interested to see what you think.

 I now must turn my attention to 4 new Chinese portable amps I've been sent...


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now must turn my attention to 4 new Chinese portable amps I've been sent..._

 

I'm hoping the iBasso D10 and P3+ are included in there


----------



## cyberspyder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm hoping the iBasso D10 and P3+ are included in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Or maybe Govibes....maybe Korean too with Styleaudio


----------



## a_tumiwa

chinese? maybe it is Fiio E3 and E5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 plus the upcoming E1 and E7 so the total is 4


----------



## arirug

re: "I now must turn my attention to 4 new Chinese portable amps I've been sent.."

 Hi Skylab! I really look forward to the review! Your portable amp roundup is one of my favorites reading here! Let`s hope one of them portables is not a tubebased Singlepower!


----------



## arirug

x2


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_re: "I now must turn my attention to 4 new Chinese portable amps I've been sent.."

 Hi Skylab! I really look forward to the review! Your portable amp roundup is one of my favorites reading here! Let`s hope one of them portables is not a tubebased Singlepower!_

 

LOL! That I assure you it is not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Radio_head

Thanks Skylab for the great reviews. Just wanted to let you know that you saved me a couple hundred bucks. I had been leaning towards the iqube but when I saw your impressions of the p-51 at such a cheaper price I went for it. Great amp for a great price.


----------



## Skylab

*Visely HEA-4*
 Info: visely.com (supposedly, although I cannot get that website to work)
 Also: Welcome to Audiophilechina

 I was asked to review a new Visely amp, the HEA-4. This is a bigger amp than the previously reviewed Visely. It has an internal rechargeable battery. Said battery was loose and floating around inside the chassis when the amp arrived to me from China – so it may be that a little better glue should be used in the manufacturing process. However, the battery was connected, and the amp was unharmed.

*Build Quality*: B+: very attractive, solid build on the exterior, but points were subtracted for the loose battery. Many other amps have made it to me without such a problem.
*Treble*: A-: Nice and smooth, and fairly neutral and transparent. Perhaps a bit soft, and lacking the very last bit of top end extension. Still very nice. Never biting or in any way harsh, and with some nice detail and nuance.
*Midrange*: A-: Quite good performance in the midrange. Fairly open and smooth. Female vocals like on “Tonight We Ride” from Jennifer O’Connor’s “Over the Mountain” were engaging and enjoyable. The mids were not on the same level as any of my three reference amps though – the Meier Move, RSA P-51, and iQube all have more nuanced and transparent mids than the HEA-4. 
*Bass:* B+: Bass was fine, and basically neutral, but it was a little loose at times. All of my reference amps offer better bass control, and a little more definition. They all also offered better extension. This was not a real strength for the Visely, but it was not bad.
*Neutrality:* A-: It’s just a touch forward in the mids and rolled off on top compared to truly neutral. But it was not that far off. 
*Soundstaging:* B+: Soundstage width was excellent. Image specificity was very good. Depth was just good – soundstage depth was shallower than the reference amps by a notable margin. For example, “Too Much Space” by Lisa Germano has a very nice depth to the recording that I really felt was lacking on the HEA-4.
*Transparency:* A-: Definitely an open, clear, generally clean, grain-free sound. Not the LAST word in resolution, but still very good. Again, however, not in the league of the reference amps. 

 The HEA-4 is a pretty decent little amp, competent, but not impressive, and the world of portable amps is pretty full of amps that are impressive. The price of $149 is attractive, though, and for the money, reasonably good performance. Nothing earth-shattering here, however. The portable amp field is very crowded, and the HEA-4 doesn’t really stand out.



*Revised Rankings (10-7-09)*


 OK, so now it’s now 48 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)


----------



## techenvy

which do you think is better for my 7000,s 
 i currently have a audio technica at-ha25d, and it lack in bass


----------



## OneSec

Seriously with this amount of work this post should be made as sticky so people can refer them first.

 This should save a lot of people from posting questions if they click on this FIRST.

 /salute


----------



## OneSec

Seriously with this amount of work this post should be made as sticky so people can refer them first.

 This should save a lot of people from posting questions if they click on this FIRST.

 /salute


----------



## rogerjennings

Hi, I am new here and very much appreciate this thread, but still making my way though all its postings. I could not find some of the amps that I am interested in, particularly PPA v2, PIMETA v2, and M³. Could these be added to the review?
 Thanks!


----------



## rmap

This is a great comparison. Any plan to review the new RSA Shadow?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rmap* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a great comparison. Any plan to review the new RSA Shadow?_

 

Until he does, just look at the P-51 review, since I feel the two amps are siblings and sound very similar.


----------



## estreeter

I have read and re-read Skylabs initial review, and the 3Move stands out as sensational VFM compared to many of the other amps in the top ten. I know that a single Head-Fiers rankings will be subject to debate, but Skylab's thoughts on the Corda mirror many elsewhere. If I could find a good portable that would take the analog out from my Topaz, I would probably go with that, but right now it looks like the 3Move is the next piece of kit at Casa Estreeter.

 Thanks again for the fantastic effort you have put into this, skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Until he does, just look at the P-51 review, since I feel the two amps are siblings and sound very similar._

 

Actually it is due to this that I do not plan to review the Shadow. It's not different enough from the P-51 to warrant the effort - if I understand it correctly, it's basically just a low-gain-only P-51 with a digital volume control.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually it is due to this that I do not plan to review the Shadow. It's not different enough from the P-51 to warrant the effort - if I understand it correctly, it's basically just a low-gain-only P-51 with a digital volume control._

 

I was talking to Ray yesterday and he says they are a little different inside, and he does think they sound a little different. To my ears they were both equally as good, even if I didn't have time to listen for the small differences. I heard the Shadow at CanJam with my ES3X, and also at the July CO meet listening via Sony R10 and Lawton Audio modded Denon D7000.

 Jamato8 can better speak of the small differences, as he has been using a prototype Shadow for a while and owns a P-51. For me, the P-51 s still my best portable amp, and Naamanf actually liked it a little more than my $995 ALO Amphora.


----------



## cn11

How about adding the Pico slim, and the ALO Rx to the portable list?


----------



## Lil' Knight

How can one review an amp that even hasn't been released yet?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can one review an amp that even hasn't been released yet?_

 

Cut him some slack, he lists his location as "under a rock".


----------



## cn11

Planning to add to the list, seeing as the slim will be out very soon, good enough?... good grief this place is ridiculous sometimes.


----------



## mrarroyo

Actually the ALO Rx is out and some like JP#s have reviewed it. Cheers.


----------



## cn11

Heck with it... I decided to just try out an ALO Rx regardless- it's ordered. The few reviews I've read so far are so positive I figured there would be minimal risk of not liking it. So I'll have the Shadow and Rx to compare on my own.


----------



## HONEYBOY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cn11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heck with it... I decided to just try out an ALO Rx regardless- it's ordered. The few reviews I've read so far are so positive I figured there would be minimal risk of not liking it. So I'll have the Shadow and Rx to compare on my own._

 

Hey cn11 I ordered the Alo Rx as well. I simply couldn't wait for anymore impressions. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts about it with regards to "the shadow" in time to come.


----------



## cn11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HONEYBOY* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey cn11 I ordered the Alo Rx as well. I simply couldn't wait for anymore impressions. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts about it with regards to "the shadow" in time to come._

 

Yeah, I look forward to hearing it very much. It sounds as though it's quite spectacular. I am expecting it to better the Shadow. We'll see. I'll update with impressions once both are a bit more burned in. Shadow is still very low on hours...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The ALO Rx at RMAF sounded very good - I love my P-51 and consider it to be my best portable amp, and the Rx was at least as good during the brief time I spent with it. I think I listened to it with both a re-cabled Edition 9 and an HD600 (or my RS-1, I forget now). It made me miss my Edition 9.

 My only problem was the size being thicker and wider than I care for when pairing with my iPod nano (or iPhone). But I think the RX paired with the digital line out dock/DAC in the same case will still be a slimmer package than my portable Vcap dock and P-51. It will sit flatter as well and not tip over if I press the controls on the iMod, so I have thought about maybe getting it for that, since I would like the iPod digital out DAC device someday.


----------



## cn11

I do see that it is bigger than the other slim amps coming out now, but I'm planning on it being a 'semi-portable', and it would see the majority of its duty from my desk at work. From what I'm reading about its sound it could very well be the best choice for that role at the present time.


----------



## shigzeo

I will have a review of the Rx soon - it is a stunning piece of equipment


----------



## cn11

^^ Glad to hear that!


----------



## HONEYBOY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will have a review of the Rx soon - it is a stunning piece of equipment_

 

And that stunning piece of equipment should be "hear" soon!!


----------



## cn11

Same 'hear'.... It's supposed to be delivered today, but I had trouble entering my work address on their site, even sent an email to them to try and get it corrected, but only just got the automated shipping notification. If it comes to my home I won't get it until I'm home this evening... if it managed to get shipped to my work address I'll get to play with it some during the day. Hoping for the latter.


----------



## shigzeo

I am also set to buy a headsix sometime soon - at least I am led to believe it is possible! That will be another thing...


----------



## estreeter

I'd like to see Skylab review the Rx and the D4, but I realise that he doesnt have access to every amp under the sun. Now that HPA has posted his glowing impressions of the D4 straight from the box, stocks of that amp may go the way of the Rx.


----------



## Skylab

Actually, I will be reviewing the iBasso D4, as well as the T4, in the next few weeks.


----------



## VicAjax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I will be reviewing the iBasso D4, as well as the T4, in the next few weeks._

 

oooh... interesting... any way you could review the new T3 instead of the T4? word around here is that it's a significant improvement over the T4.

 yeoman's work you're doing in this thread, by the way... much appreciated.


----------



## AnalogJ

I'm wondering how Headroom's amps fit into these quality-wise? Have you listened to them?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicAjax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oooh... interesting... any way you could review the new T3 instead of the T4? word around here is that it's a significant improvement over the T4.

 yeoman's work you're doing in this thread, by the way... much appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Thanks - but sorry, I can only review what I have access to.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AnalogJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm wondering how Headroom's amps fit into these quality-wise? Have you listened to them?_

 

Same issue as above - Headroom has ignored my requests to review their amps.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks - but sorry, I can only review what I have access to.

 Same issue as above - Headroom has ignored my requests to review their amps._

 

I thought Miguel was going to send you a T3, not a T4?


----------



## Skylab

EDIT - it *is* the T3 I am getting, along with the D4, from Miguel.


----------



## mrarroyo

I may be going deaf in my old age but the D4 "Mamba" just keeps getting better and better! I have not listened to my "home gear" in three days because of the D4 "Mamba". The T3 will blow you away also, specially when you see how tiny it is. The fact is that iBasso is doing so many right things that I can only wait in anticipation what they will come out with later. Just amazing!


----------



## VicAjax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT - it *is* the T3 I am getting, along with the D4, from Miguel._

 

Huzzah! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I may be going deaf in my old age but the D4 "Mamba" just keeps getting better and better! I have not listened to my "home gear" in three days because of the D4 "Mamba". The T3 will blow you away also, specially when you see how tiny it is. The fact is that iBasso is doing so many right things that I can only wait in anticipation what they will come out with later. Just amazing!_

 

how does the amp stage of the D4 compare with the T3? can the latter keep up?


----------



## mrarroyo

I think it does keep up, and at about $110 it is a very nice and in an small package. Cheers.


----------



## Dominat0r

well, i think ive decide to try out the 2move...maybe the 3move down the road. Wish me luck =)


----------



## jonathanjong

Turns out I'm selling one...


----------



## che15

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks - but sorry, I can only review what I have access to.



 Same issue as above - Headroom has ignored my requests to review their amps._

 

any plans on checking the shadow out?


----------



## BlackStarPUA

support review of shadow x2


----------



## Skylab

Sorry guys - the Shadow is similar enough to the P-51 that I do not plan to review it. It is supposed to be a little different sounding, but it's designed for IEM's, and I don't have any.


----------



## vkvedam

Hey Rob, when can we expect the review of D4? Just to keep an eye around. Cheers...


----------



## Skylab

It will be a while - I am second on the list for the loaners - so probably 3 weeks or so.


----------



## ben7337

Do you think the D4 review will be out before christmas at least? or will you be getting the D4 in 3 weeks or so and go through a long couple week process of reviewing it before we see your opinion?


----------



## Skylab

Before New Years for sure


----------



## estreeter

Skylab, I believe you also have the T3 atm. Mine just arrived and I want to get at least a hundred hours on it before I give any impressions, but one thing does stand out : compared to the Topaz, the little guy is a *lot* easier to listen to straight out of the box. Based on some of the comments I've seen from yourself, HPA and various folk in the Rx thread, this could be a trend. I know its heresy for many here, but I've never been a fan of having to wait 300 hours to hear what any piece of equipment is capable of. 

 Look forward to hearing your impressions of the T3, perhaps a Xmas present to Head-Fi ?


----------



## Skylab

The T3 and D4 should both arrive in a few weeks time - I will have them together.


----------



## VicAjax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The T3 and D4 should both arrive in a few weeks time - I will have them together._

 

i don't plan on pulling the trigger on anything until your reviews of these are in. btw... my wife and most of my best frends are NU alum.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VicAjax* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ . btw... my wife and most of my best frends are NU alum. 



_

 

SWEEEET!


----------



## BBY03evo

Skylab, will you be reviewing the new slim TTVJ amp?


----------



## heathbar001

Hello Skylab, Thanks for the reviews. I bought a P-51 Mustang based on your recommendation. I must say, This thing Rocks..... Very crisp and clean, Bass is not muddy like alot of other amps. Please keep up the great work.......Ed....


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BBY03evo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, will you be reviewing the new slim TTVJ amp?_

 

At this point no plans...



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *heathbar001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Skylab, Thanks for the reviews. I bought a P-51 Mustang based on your recommendation. I must say, This thing Rocks..... Very crisp and clean, Bass is not muddy like alot of other amps. Please keep up the great work.......Ed...._

 


 Thanks!!!


----------



## janchadley

Skylab, I know you're a busy guy and all, but I have hopes some day you'll review Microshar's u109. Microshar loaned you the u107 for review so perhaps they will with this one as well. If you do, you will find it a completely different amp in just about every way from the u107, both good and bad, mostly good. I bought one since the 107 was my first first full sized portable toaster/flask amp (my fiio was my first, really, but you can't make a full sized brick with an e3). Since then I've bought many portable amps, but I really like the u109's sound quality and would be interested to hear your thoughts on it. 

 Just a guy who owns a lot of bricks because he loves bricks and doesn't care how stupid he looks when he could pass for an air traffic control person while shopping in the grocery store.


----------



## The Rino

Curious about the slim TTVJ as well.


----------



## Skylab

*Update 12-15-09*

*> iBasso D4 Mamba*

 Info: iBasso

 I received a loaner of the iBasso D4 Mambo from Miguel. It was fully broken in when I got it. It’s got a built in USB DAC which has great specs, but I tested it just using its analog input, which is how all these amps have been used. It is a medium-large unit, in iBasso’s usual, nice housing.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice looking, sturdy metal case. TOTALLY quiet operation. There can be a bit of a turn on thump - funny, the first few times I tried I got none, but now I seem to reliably. Not really worrisome though. No hiss at all. So overall very good.
*Treble:* A: clean, delicate, smooth, grain-free, extended and transparent. Slightly less extension that the iQube, but smoother in a way that I actually liked maybe a little better in some ways. I never felt it lacked detail. It sounds right on, with never even a HINT of aggressiveness or stridency.
*Midrange:* A+: I was totally unprepared for what the D4 delivered in the mids. It is the best amp iBasso has ever delivered in this regard by a VERY wide margin. I was really, really impressed. The mids have that beguiling combination of transparency, openness, and sumptuousness that is what truly makes listening to music a pleasure. The interplay between John Hiatt and Bonnie Raitt’s voices on “I Can’t Wait” was terrific – both very plainly audible on their own, but still cohesive as they should be. A significant achievement at this price point.
*Bass:* A+: Tuneful, punchy bass. I suppose it may be just a bit fat, but that’s OK. It was quite deep, as evidenced by the deep bass synth on Aya Peard’s “This Mess”, but that did not overwhelm her voice. The depth is not quite as deep as I get from the iQube, but it’s very close. Definition was excellent.
*Neutrality:* A: Basically neutral Maybe just a touch warm? But with the Shure 840’s, this was a blessing, and they paired. There is nothing that sticks out as not being neutral, but the sound is on the slightly warm side. This is always a better place to be than the cold sterile side, unless it makes the sound lack transparency. Which in the Mamba’s case it sure doesn’t.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY wide, and very well defined, but it wasn't the deepest I have heard. That said, the Mamba has excellent imaging – nothing at all to complain about here either.
*Transparency:* A+: This is BY FAR the most transparent amp iBasso has ever made, and it is top-shelf in this regard. It fully delivers that wide-open window on the music that only the very best amps do. Again, this is a new level of achievement for iBasso, and a very strong performance at this price point. Very impressive to me.

 Well, this shows how important it is to keep an open mind. Some of iBasso’s other amps I thought were quite good; some less so. Well this one is a CLEAR winner. I was very impressed, and it gets a string recommendation both for overall performance, and for value. Well done, iBasso!


*Conclusions (12-15-09)*


 OK, so now it’s now 48 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 3. iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Update 12-15-09*

*> iBasso D4 Mamba*

 Info: iBasso

 I received a loaner of the iBasso D4 Mambo from Miguel. It was fully broken in when I got it. It’s got a built in USB DAC which has great specs, but I tested it just using its analog input, which is how all these amps have been used. It is a medium-large unit, in iBasso’s usual, nice housing.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice looking, sturdy metal case. TOTALLY quiet operation. There can be a bit of a turn on thump - funny, the first few times I tried I got none, but now I seem to reliably. Not really worrisome though. No hiss at all. So overall very good.
*Treble:* A: clean, delicate, smooth, grain-free, extended and transparent. Slightly less extension that the iQube, but smoother in a way that I actually liked maybe a little better in some ways. I never felt it lacked detail. It sounds right on, with never even a HINT of aggressiveness or stridency.
*Midrange:* A+: I was totally unprepared for what the D4 delivered in the mids. It is the best amp iBasso has ever delivered in this regard by a VERY wide margin. I was really, really impressed. The mids have that beguiling combination of transparency, openness, and sumptuousness that is what truly makes listening to music a pleasure. The interplay between John Hiatt and Bonnie Raitt’s voices on “I Can’t Wait” was terrific – both very plainly audible on their own, but still cohesive as they should be. A significant achievement at this price point.
*Bass:* A+: Tuneful, punchy bass. I suppose it may be just a bit fat, but that’s OK. It was quite deep, as evidenced by the deep bass synth on Aya Peard’s “This Mess”, but that did not overwhelm her voice. The depth is not quite as deep as I get from the iQube, but it’s very close. Definition was excellent.
*Neutrality:* A: Basically neutral Maybe just a touch warm? But with the Shure 840’s, this was a blessing, and they paired. There is nothing that sticks out as not being neutral, but the sound is on the slightly warm side. This is always a better place to be than the cold sterile side, unless it makes the sound lack transparency. Which in the Mamba’s case it sure doesn’t.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY wide, and very well defined, but it wasn't the deepest I have heard. That said, the Mamba has excellent imaging – nothing at all to complain about here either.
*Transparency:* A+: This is BY FAR the most transparent amp iBasso has ever made, and it is top-shelf in this regard. It fully delivers that wide-open window on the music that only the very best amps do. Again, this is a new level of achievement for iBasso, and a very strong performance at this price point. Very impressive to me.

 Well, this shows how important it is to keep an open mind. Some of iBasso’s other amps I thought were quite good; some less so. Well this one is a CLEAR winner. I was very impressed, and it gets a string recommendation both for overall performance, and for value. Well done, iBasso!


*Conclusions (12-15-09)*


 OK, so now it’s now 48 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 3. iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful._

 

It was a pleasure to read as usual Skylab 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What timing, after my new D4 arrived yesterday to read and find out that you have rated it in the top 3,I very much agree with your finding on the D4.

 In my opinion I feel the D4 is the most practical amp to have considering amps like Lisa 3 costing 3 times its price.

 Rule of Thumb- Cannot go Wrong with iBasso D4.


----------



## vkvedam

Cheers Rob! As usual, an eye pleasing and scrumptuously explained review. Short and sweet.


----------



## wuwhere

For much less than Lisa's power supply D4 rules. Thanks Sky.


----------



## Trapper32

Thanks Rob. Just what I needed to push me off the fence.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Skylab, nice review, I agree completely! I'm still working on my review because I have so many IEM and headphones to try, and I'm rolling opamps too. 

 The frightening thing is that the D4 gets even better with a pair of OPA1611A on a 2:1 adapter with class-A biasing (retaining the stock LMH6655 buffers), and it's now hard to tell the difference now between the D4 and the P-51. My D10 with TLE2141 class-A opamps on a 2:1 adapter with EL8201 buffers sounds very similar to the stock D4, but I think the stock D4 still has a slight edge over the opamp rolled D10. 

 So, the D4 with new opamps listed above has become my favorite, especially since with a 9v battery it can drive the HD600 and HD800 better than the P-51 and D10 that were my previous favorites. I have several rechargable 9v batteries I can rotate through, and it's nice knowing that in a pinch I can grab an Alkaline 9v off the shelf if I need it.


----------



## estreeter

Thanks Rob - as long as the Lisa remains at the top of the heap, I only have this:

*BRING ON THE RS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Rob - as long as the Lisa remains at the top of the heap, I only have this:

*BRING ON THE RS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *_

 

I didn't get it,sorry


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't get it,sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

RS is Triad Audio's new venture which is pretty much similar to Lisa in appearance.


----------



## estreeter

One Head-Fiers impressions of the RS:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lis...ml#post6188737


----------



## Skylab

Thanks all! Appreciate the kind words, and HeadphoneAddict, always nice to see when we hear it the same way!

 BTW, I am getting a Lisa RS for review.

 Next up though: the iBasso T3.


----------



## Hancock.L

This is my first post in Head-Fi. I want to upgrade from PA2V2 so I keep reading articles about portable amp for weeks these days.
 I am so impressed by Skylab's insight review and HeadphoneAddict's decent inputs that I ordered a iBasso D4 today.
 I got an e-mail said I can expect receiveing it on next monday! Great speed!

 Among today's portable headphone amp market, there are just so many products out there.
 Without you Head-Fier's help, I should still be considering/confusing..... and big chance I will choose a so-so amp instead of a real good one.
 I really appreciate your efforts that helps guys like me!!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks so much for your post, Hancock.L - it is posts like yours that make the effort for me worthwhile.


----------



## trentino

Totally agree with Hancock. Got so much help from Head Fi before I bought the T3. Since then I've read about the D4 and got much help and answers from the always so helpful guys Hp-addict, Jamato and others here on Head Fi. Now with Skylabs review I'm totally confident that D4 is the next amp/dac for me. Thanks for this excellent thread and for all the nice and helpful users here


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob (Skylab), Larry (HeadphoneAddict), jamato8, Aaron (immtbiker) and Ron (HiFlight) I am very concerned, yes very concerned in that all of us agree the D4 is such a killer of an amp/dac specially at its price. My only regret is that I did not have the TopKit to send it so you Rob and Aaron could try the D4 with it.

 Cheers.


----------



## rawrster

ohhh..this is a great thread for me :] It gave me some ideas of what to buy..ended up with a mini3 for really cheap. Nice writeup on all these amps


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob (Skylab), Larry (HeadphoneAddict), jamato8, Aaron (immtbiker) and Ron (HiFlight) I am very concerned, yes very concerned in that all of us agree the D4 is such a killer of an amp/dac specially at its price. My only regret is that I did not have the TopKit to send it so you Rob and Aaron could try the D4 with it.

 Cheers._

 

Rob said once before that he prefers to review the amps as they ship, and not modded or opamp rolled. But I do think he would be surprised at the step up in sound when using the OPA1611A class-A biased on the 2:1 adapter.


----------



## estreeter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I am getting a Lisa RS for review._

 

Rob, will you be posting your review of the RS here or in the 'Fullsize Amps' forum ? We really need a 'Transportable Kit' forum for that middle area between the true portables and something you could easily throw in a backpack : 48 hours from now I will be in a hotel room in Singapore, listening to music from my netbook via the Topaz. Try doing that with a 'fullsize' amp !


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob said once before that he prefers to review the amps as they ship, and not modded or opamp rolled. But I do think he would be surprised at the step up in sound when using the OPA1611A class-A biased on the 2:1 adapter._

 

Yep - with portables, and really in general, I prefer to review unmodded amps. My exception to this is tube amps, where I think it's much more common to roll tubes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob, will you be posting your review of the RS here or in the 'Fullsize Amps' forum ? We really need a 'Transportable Kit' forum for that middle area between the true portables and something you could easily throw in a backpack : 48 hours from now I will be in a hotel room in Singapore, listening to music from my netbook via the Topaz. Try doing that with a 'fullsize' amp ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmmm....not sure yet. Probably here, depending on how big it is.


----------



## Dazed&Confused718

so for $400 and under what are the top 5 portable amps that can drive the hd650/hd600 or AKG K701/K702 straight from a portable mp3 player?


----------



## Matthew.C

It would be awesome if you can review the TTVJ Slim Portable.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dazed&Confused718* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so for $400 and under what are the top 5 portable amps that can drive the hd650/hd600 or AKG K701/K702 straight from a portable mp3 player?_

 

Any of the amps on this list will drive those headphones better than an MP3 player on it's own. I don't own any of those headphones anymore, but there is no need for a separate list for this. 

 Also, none of the amps here will drive either of those headphones as well as a good home amp will, so do keep that in mind. We're still talking about headphones, here.


----------



## Rico67

What about Shadow and RX amps ?


----------



## Skylab

All:

 Just a friendly reminder, that I review the amps I am given the opportunity to review. If I am not given the opportunity, I cannot review them. So while you are welcome to ask about whether I will review this amp or that amp, I will not answer those posts unless I actually DO plan to review the amp in question.

 Somewhat unrelated, I also generally have a rule that an amp must be currently in production, and available for order, to review it. If it's not an amp people might be considering buying, the review isn't helpful in providing guidance.


----------



## vkvedam

Hey Rob, I would like to hear about Meier Arietta (Now Swing) against your top most portable Lisa. If mobility isn't an issue, which one would you prefer. Cheers...


----------



## Dazed&Confused718

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any of the amps on this list will drive those headphones better than an MP3 player on it's own. I don't own any of those headphones anymore, but there is no need for a separate list for this. 

 Also, none of the amps here will drive either of those headphones as well as a good home amp will, so do keep that in mind. We're still talking about headphones, here._

 

thanks...but what i should've said would it at least drive them to about 75% of their full potential?

 especially the ibasso d4


----------



## BlackStarPUA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dazed&Confused718* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks...but what i should've said would it at least drive them to about 75% of their full potential?

 especially the ibasso d4_

 

i am also interested in d4, do you view the d4 as a high cost / price ratio product?

 thanks skylab


----------



## mrarroyo

BlackStarPUA and Dazed&Confused718 you (as well as all others) should fill in your data so others know where you are located. I say this because you could have a fellow Head-Fier living close to you who might be able to meet with you at library or a café and let you test the piece of gear you are interested in. However you have chosen not to divulge that information and ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Rob, I would like to hear about Meier Arietta (Now Swing) against your top most portable Lisa. If mobility isn't an issue, which one would you prefer. Cheers..._

 

The Swing. If you don;t need portable, don't buy a portable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dazed&Confused718* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks...but what i should've said would it at least drive them to about 75% of their full potential?

 especially the ibasso d4_

 

Hard to exactly, but they will be much better than no amp.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BlackStarPUA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am also interested in d4, do you view the d4 as a high cost / price ratio product?

 thanks skylab 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I view it as a having an excellent price : Performance ratio, yes, assuming that is what you meant.


----------



## BlackStarPUA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Swing. If you don;t need portable, don't buy a portable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Hard to exactly, but they will be much better than no amp.



 I view it as a having an excellent price : Performance ratio, yes, assuming that is what you meant._

 

thanks Skylab~ You are sooo~ nice!


----------



## chi-dispatch

HI NEED SOME INFO I HAVE A PAIR OF KOSS PORTAPRO AND SANSA Clip Plus + 8 GB THESE ARE CHRISTMAS GIFTS I HAVE NOT OPENED YET. DO I NEED AMP TO POWER KOSS PORTAPRO?


----------



## Bina

No, you just need to turn of Caps Lock.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bína* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, you just need to turn of Caps Lock._

 

I agree mate.


----------



## estreeter

+1, but sadly this isnt the only caps-lock equipped warrior on Head-Fi.


----------



## japc

There's the notion that because we wear headphones a lot we have some kind of hearing loss hence the SHOUTING.


----------



## DrBenway

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chi-dispatch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HI NEED SOME INFO I HAVE A PAIR OF KOSS PORTAPRO AND SANSA Clip Plus + 8 GB THESE ARE CHRISTMAS GIFTS I HAVE NOT OPENED YET. DO I NEED AMP TO POWER KOSS PORTAPRO? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ummm...you do need to turn off the Caps Lock key, as others have pointed out. But I can answer your question. I am a long-time PortaPro user, and until I stupidly lost my Clip+ a couple of weeks ago, I was using the exact combination you are asking about.

 In short: no, you don't need an amp for this combination. The PortaPros are quite efficient and sound very good plugged into just about any quality portable, such as the Clip. That said, the Clip's internal amp is not the most powerful I've heard, so if you choose to fry your ears at very high volume, you may want to add an amp.

 I do not recommend this. At the very least, try the PortaPro/Clip combo first, to see how you like it. I suspect you will be very satisfied and will not want to add an amp. An amp is also inadvisable with this combination because the PPs offer very little isolation. In noisy situations, you may be tempted to crank an amp to levels that sound great while you are listening, despite the fact that you are harming your ears.

 So, in sum, you do not need to amp your Clip to use it with PortaPros. This is a great combination; I think you're gonna love it! Don't forget to thank the thoughtful person who got you this great present!


----------



## vkvedam

Quote:


 So, in sum, you do not need to amp your Clip to use it with PortaPros. This is a great combination; I think you're gonna love it! Don't forget to thank the thoughtful person who got you this great present! 
 

X2, you don't need an amp.


----------



## chi-dispatch

HOW DO I turn off the Caps Lock key ON Headphone OR THE SANSA Clip Plus + I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN WITCH ITEM HAS THE the Caps Lock KEY. HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT I NEED TO DO THANKS FOR ANY INFO


----------



## dfkt




----------



## WalkGood

roflmao, now this is good comedy ...


----------



## prone2phone

I believe CAPS lock is on the amp, if you have no amp, don't worry about CAPS lock! lol


----------



## chi-dispatch

HI NEED SOME INFO I HAVE A PAIR OF KOSS PORTAPRO AND SANSA Clip Plus + 8 GB THESE ARE CHRISTMAS GIFTS I HAVE NOT OPENED YET. DO I NEED AMP TO POWER KOSS PORTAPRO CAN ANYONE HELP HOW DO I turn off the Caps Lock key THANKS FOR ANY HELP


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe CAPS lock is on the amp, if you have no amp, don't worry about CAPS lock! lol_


----------



## vkvedam

Seems like spam to me, hey moderator check out.


----------



## chi-dispatch

hi if i need amp for my KOSS PORTAPRO AND SANSA Clip Plus + 8 GB witch amp will work well with the KOSS PORTAPRO AND SANSA Clip Plus. i got like $150 to spend. i have ben looking at the Practical Devices XM4 is this any good for my setup .can anyone give me any info or dose anyone have a better amp then this one they might want to sell to me for the 150 shipped i am in the U.S.A


----------



## BlackStarPUA

really spam....i t finally turn out to be spam... shxt...


----------



## deniall83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Update 12-15-09*

*> iBasso D4 Mamba*

 Info: iBasso

 I received a loaner of the iBasso D4 Mambo from Miguel. It was fully broken in when I got it. It’s got a built in USB DAC which has great specs, but I tested it just using its analog input, which is how all these amps have been used. It is a medium-large unit, in iBasso’s usual, nice housing.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice looking, sturdy metal case. TOTALLY quiet operation. There can be a bit of a turn on thump - funny, the first few times I tried I got none, but now I seem to reliably. Not really worrisome though. No hiss at all. So overall very good.
*Treble:* A: clean, delicate, smooth, grain-free, extended and transparent. Slightly less extension that the iQube, but smoother in a way that I actually liked maybe a little better in some ways. I never felt it lacked detail. It sounds right on, with never even a HINT of aggressiveness or stridency.
*Midrange:* A+: I was totally unprepared for what the D4 delivered in the mids. It is the best amp iBasso has ever delivered in this regard by a VERY wide margin. I was really, really impressed. The mids have that beguiling combination of transparency, openness, and sumptuousness that is what truly makes listening to music a pleasure. The interplay between John Hiatt and Bonnie Raitt’s voices on “I Can’t Wait” was terrific – both very plainly audible on their own, but still cohesive as they should be. A significant achievement at this price point.
*Bass:* A+: Tuneful, punchy bass. I suppose it may be just a bit fat, but that’s OK. It was quite deep, as evidenced by the deep bass synth on Aya Peard’s “This Mess”, but that did not overwhelm her voice. The depth is not quite as deep as I get from the iQube, but it’s very close. Definition was excellent.
*Neutrality:* A: Basically neutral Maybe just a touch warm? But with the Shure 840’s, this was a blessing, and they paired. There is nothing that sticks out as not being neutral, but the sound is on the slightly warm side. This is always a better place to be than the cold sterile side, unless it makes the sound lack transparency. Which in the Mamba’s case it sure doesn’t.
*Soundstaging:* A: The soundstage was VERY wide, and very well defined, but it wasn't the deepest I have heard. That said, the Mamba has excellent imaging – nothing at all to complain about here either.
*Transparency:* A+: This is BY FAR the most transparent amp iBasso has ever made, and it is top-shelf in this regard. It fully delivers that wide-open window on the music that only the very best amps do. Again, this is a new level of achievement for iBasso, and a very strong performance at this price point. Very impressive to me.

 Well, this shows how important it is to keep an open mind. Some of iBasso’s other amps I thought were quite good; some less so. Well this one is a CLEAR winner. I was very impressed, and it gets a string recommendation both for overall performance, and for value. Well done, iBasso!


*Conclusions (12-15-09)*


 OK, so now it’s now 48 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 3. iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful._

 

You're the man Skylab. I'm a total noob and have been looking at this amp for my first due to its great price. Your review sealed the deal and I have just ordered it. Thanks so much for this thread. I'm sure I can speak for everyone when I say we really appreciate it.

 I'm curious if you have heard the iBasso P3+ as that was the other amp I was looking at.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! I have not heard the P3+. I will have my review of the T3 up tomorrow, but it is no challenger for the D4, except in size.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deniall* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're the man Skylab. I'm a total noob and have been looking at this amp for my first due to its great price. Your review sealed the deal and I have just ordered it. Thanks so much for this thread. I'm sure I can speak for everyone when I say we really appreciate it.

 I'm curious if you have heard the iBasso P3+ as that was the other amp I was looking at._

 

I haven't heard P3+ either, but I know people at Head-Fi who have,I've also checked with ibasso who say that the amp section of the D4 is similar to the P3+, so you have got the right amp and a very nice DAC.


----------



## deniall83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't heard P3+ either, but I know people at Head-Fi who have,I've also checked with ibasso who say that the amp section of the D4 is similar to the P3+, so you have got the right amp and a very nice DAC._

 

Thanks mate


----------



## heishiro

@Skylab

 many thanks for doing all the effort here. i hope you can also do a review about the D2+ boa
 i think what you have in the past was the old D2-boa, many thanks in advance


----------



## Guidostrunk

Noob here, recently picked up a practical devices xm4 for 60 bucks, is that a decent deal for this amp,it is used but looks like brand new and works fine. Also would this amp work well with a pair of Fischer Audio Eterna iem's. My source is a Sansa fuze . thx.


----------



## Guidostrunk

My source is a Sansa Fuze.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guidostrunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My source is a Sansa Fuze._

 

We know it already


----------



## Guidostrunk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We know it already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Glad you took notice, looking for comments on original post. thx.


----------



## devansh

i need a headphone amp for ultrasone pro 750 in 40 $ please help.....PM me if u can help.devansh


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guidostrunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Noob here, recently picked up a practical devices xm4 for 60 bucks, is that a decent deal for this amp,it is used but looks like brand new and works fine. Also would this amp work well with a pair of Fischer Audio Eterna iem's. My source is a Sansa fuze . thx._

 

I'm sorry I can't answer any of those questions myself - no experience with any of that gear except the XM4, which at that price is a great deal.


----------



## qusp

Skylab, you really gotta get a hold of the ibasso OEM, decked out could be challenge for #1 i'm undecided which I like best as both have their merits, but very glad I have both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## rawrster

didnt want to create a new thread so ill ask it here..got myself a mini3 and wondering about charging. any idea how long it would take to charge? got a 325 mAh battery with one of the chargers that was listed on the amb site.


----------



## trentino

Skylab - what happened to your T3 review? Waiting and waiting...


----------



## Skylab

I got too busy at work. It will be up by the end of the week.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got too busy at work. It will be up by the end of the week._

 

Nice profile photo you have now, but somehow I liked the old one, it was the skylab photo


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kunalraiker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice profile photo you have now, but somehow I liked the old one, it was the skylab photo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

LOL - I got bored with the Monkey


----------



## deniall83

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, you really gotta get a hold of the ibasso OEM, decked out could be challenge for #1 i'm undecided which I like best as both have their merits, but very glad I have both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

What's an iBasso OEM?


----------



## kunalraiker

check the iBasso site, its Hi-Fi Quest


----------



## Skylab

*Update 1-7-10*

*> iBasso T3*

 Info: iBasso

 I received a loaner of the iBasso T3 from Miguel. It was fully broken in when I got it. It’s really designed with IEM’s in mind, but I don’t have any – so I used it with the efficient and low impedance Shure SRH-840’s. The T3 is impossibly small – I actually lost it in the packaging.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice looking, sturdy metal case. Very little hiss at just the highest volume levels. Not really worrisome though. Only the very slightest of turn-on tick. So overall very good, especially for something so small.
*Treble:* A-: generally good performance here, in that it is basically transparent and grain free, although it lacks a little sparkle and extension. No fatal flaws, but nothing really special here. Nicely smooth, so will never be bothersome, but better performance can be had – albeit at a price in both $$$ and size.
*Midrange:* A: Mids were very nice. Vocals rendered cleanly and without coloration. It’s a little below that “wide open window” threshold that defines the very best (including iBasso’s own D4), but still basically excellent performance, again considering size and cost. Signature is just a bit on the warm/forgiving side, which is always a good side to be on.
*Bass:* A: Tuneful, punchy bass. Not crazy-deep, but full and weighty Lacks the definition and bounciness of the better amps, but again, quite good overall, and almost miraculous here for such a small amp..
*Neutrality:* A-: Basically neutral, but just a touch warm, and just a little lacking at both frequency extremes, more notably in the treble. But with the Shure 840’s, this was a blessing, and they paired together fairly nicely IMO. I wouldn’t use the T3 with headphones that are already a little rolled off on top though, as things will be too dull.
*Soundstaging:* A-: The soundstage was reasonably wide, and generally well defined, but it wasn't among the best in terms of either, and was a small notch below that in terms of depth. It’s not bad, but not the king of soundstaging..
*Transparency:* A-: Here again, very good performance where size and cost are factored into play, but in absolute terms, it lacks transparency versus the best amps, and is not as good as the iBasso D4 in this regard. The T3 has good, but not great, transparency.

 There *IS* a price to be paid for a low price and small size. The T3 sounds terrific considering its tiny size and very low price. In its price class, I think it’s the best I have heard. It’s musical and pleasant. But after spending time with its big brother D4, and in comparison to the other top-tier amps I have, it falls short. So I recommend it where price and/or size are a consideration, but it is not state-of-the art performance. For that, the step up to the D4 is needed. If cost is not an issue, but tiny size is, then the RSA P-51 is the way to go. But if you need small AND inexpensive, the T3 will not disappoint – it’s a good sounding little amp.


*Conclusions (1-7-10)*


 OK, so now it’s now 48 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 3. iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219 (Review Here )
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 12. iBasso T3 @ $119.00
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## vkvedam

Smashing Rob! I think there are a lot of people waiting for this review.


----------



## prone2phone

very funny that some people say d4 and t3 sound almost the same or small difference. when i got t3 i thougt how can they compare it to top amps, it just sounds nice, but not mind blowing


----------



## trentino

Skylab - great review of the T3. Although I already own it I've been waiting to read your take on it. Seems I must go and buy the D4 now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks again!


----------



## ldaustin

Skylab, I have the Shure 840's and am looking for something portable to drive those from the LOD on an Ipod. I am particularly hoping to add some more punch on the low end. Is the T3 a good match for the 840's - even without a bass boost capability? Thx.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_very funny that some people say d4 and t3 sound almost the same or small difference. when i got t3 i thougt how can they compare it to top amps, it just sounds nice, but not mind blowing_

 

Really? I haven't seen those reports yet. I do agree it is nice but not mind blowing, but for the price (and size) the T3 is a good deal. The T3 via LOD with ES3X or JH13Pro or UE11Pro is not a downgrade over the iPhone 3GS headphone out, while the T4 was. To use an HD600 on the iPhone 3GS you will get great sound but not enough volume - the T3 on the iPhone will sound just as good but play much louder. So, it all depends on what you need the amp to do.

 In my case I have maintained that the T3 is better than the T4, and closer to the level of the D2 or D3 (or maybe between those), but the D4/D10 and others are clearly better (especially in detail and transparency). Skylab ranked the D2 Boa slightly higher than T3, but when I compared the two side by side the D2 bass was higher than it's mids and it didn't sound as neutral, although the D2 was more transparent due to a little better micro-detail. Still, this allows the T3 to get along with more headphones than the D2 Boa. 

 Also, remember that Skylab has the one pair of portable headphones he tried, and synergy also rears it's head where to me an amp can sound very different with one headphone vs another.


----------



## prone2phone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, remember that Skylab has the one pair of portable headphones he tried, and synergy also rears it's head where to me an amp can sound very different with one headphone vs another._

 

that's one of the reasons why people value your reviews - you tried T3 even with hd600


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ldaustin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I have the Shure 840's and am looking for something portable to drive those from the LOD on an Ipod. I am particularly hoping to add some more punch on the low end. Is the T3 a good match for the 840's - even without a bass boost capability? Thx._

 

I'm not sure it adds a lot of punch that isn't there in the headphones more than other amps, no, but I felt the bass was punchy with that combo.


----------



## jamato8

I have a lot of different amps to listen to and the one thing that makes the T3 fun for me is the fact that it is transparent and with IEM's has great bass punch and speed. Remember it is primarily designed for IEM's. That the T3 will also drive headphones to decent levels is a nice addition but even on the case it says designed for IEM's.


----------



## saintfiends

Really great review, saved a lot of time. Thank you


----------



## BlackStarPUA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Update 1-7-10*

*> iBasso T3*

 Info: iBasso

 I received a loaner of the iBasso T3 from Miguel. It was fully broken in when I got it. It’s really designed with IEM’s in mind, but I don’t have any – so I used it with the efficient and low impedance Shure SRH-840’s. The T3 is impossibly small – I actually lost it in the packaging.

 .....

 There *IS* a price to be paid for a low price and small size. The T3 sounds terrific considering its tiny size and very low price. In its price class, I think it’s the best I have heard. It’s musical and pleasant. But after spending time with its big brother D4, and in comparison to the other top-tier amps I have, it falls short. So I recommend it where price and/or size are a consideration, but it is not state-of-the art performance. For that, the step up to the D4 is needed. If cost is not an issue, but tiny size is, then the RSA P-51 is the way to go. But if you need small AND inexpensive, the T3 will not disappoint – it’s a good sounding little amp._

 

WOW, nice review! thanks! so, is that 840 with d4 is a better combo than t3 IYO?


----------



## Kayzo

Where'd the D4 review go?


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kayzo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where'd the D4 review go?_

 

1--go to page one
 2--go to bottom of reviews
 3--read the line in red where Rob--Skylab--states that other amp reviews are spread among various pages of the thread because original post is so long and the system's format cannot take anything much longer
 4--go back to top of page
 5--do a "search" within the thread for d4

 Good luck


----------



## Skylab

OK sorry, the link to the D4 Review disappeared. I have restored it. So the ranking list now has the link to the review.

 All later reviews have to be accessed by the links in the rankings in the original review, since the OP is too big, as TNMike indicated.

 Thanks.


----------



## Kayzo

I was wondering where the link went. Thanks.


----------



## estreeter

Guys, if possible, can we be a bit more selective in terms of quoting large swathes of text ? This is already a monster thread to trawl, and scrolling half a page to see Skylabs list repeated with a single sentence response is tiresome in the extreme.

 Tks,

 estreeter


----------



## vkvedam

Hey Rob, I think it's time that you change your thread title by replacing 37 with 48.


----------



## Rubrmn

This is an awesome resource for those of us who are new to this hobby. There are no resources in my vacinity that allow me to personally hear anything. I will have to just go off of Head-fier recommendations and make a leap of faith.

 Did I miss it or have you not reviewed the ALO Rx? Rx, Hornet M, Graham Slee, Meier Move 3 seem to be on the top of my list.


----------



## gopack87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rubrmn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an awesome resource for those of us who are new to this hobby. There are no resources in my vacinity that allow me to personally hear anything. I will have to just go off of Head-fier recommendations and make a leap of faith.

 Did I miss it or have you not reviewed the *ALO Rx*? Rx, Hornet M, Graham Slee, Meier Move 3 seem to be on the top of my list._

 

 I'm extremely interested in Skylab doing a ALO Rx review, as this has been on my to-buy list but there just aren't that many reviews on it


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Rob, I think it's time that you change your thread title by replacing 37 with 48._

 

Actually I have tried, but for some reason it cannot be changed.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Rubrmn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an awesome resource for those of us who are new to this hobby. There are no resources in my vacinity that allow me to personally hear anything. I will have to just go off of Head-fier recommendations and make a leap of faith.

 Did I miss it or have you not reviewed the ALO Rx? Rx, Hornet M, Graham Slee, Meier Move 3 seem to be on the top of my list._

 

I have not been offered an ALO Rx to review - and Ken at ALO knows where to find me


----------



## LionPlushie

hey Skylab,

 the Mamba D4 you reviewed got only the stock opamps? Or is it modified?

 EDIT: ok saw the post by miguel. lol. so the stock is already so good.. hmm..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey Skylab,

 the Mamba D4 you reviewed got only the stock opamps? Or is it modified?

 EDIT: ok saw the post by miguel. lol. so the stock is already so good.. hmm.._

 

I thought stock sounded like a cross between a Pico and a P-51. Opamp rolled with OPA1611A class-A biased on a 2:1 is pretty much a P-51 clone.


----------



## LionPlushie

That sounds very promising. Looks like i need to get it ASAP.

 Anyway larry, what kind of batteries are you using now? Tysonic low discharge? Does it matters?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds very promising. Looks like i need to get it ASAP.

 Anyway larry, what kind of batteries are you using now? Tysonic low discharge? Does it matters?_

 

I'm just using whatever 9v batteries I have laying around for the D4, because I am only using this with my Macbook Pro at home for now. If it was my only portable, I'd have a pair of lithium rechargable 500 mah 9v cells and a charger (about $70 for 2 batt/1 charger) at Rechargeable Batteries Battery Chargers Rechargeable Lithium Digital Camera Batteries Maha Ansmann Energizer Sanyo ZTS


----------



## LionPlushie

Seems like those need to be imported.

 How about the Maha Powerex ones? 300mAh.

 EDIT: Larry, is this the one? http://www.thomasdistributing.com/sh...ger-p-549.html

 So the type of battery for D4 doesn't matter much? Not to the extend of the SR71/SR71A case?

 For this case, just need to find one with high capacity to last long?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems like those need to be imported.

 How about the Maha Powerex ones? 300mAh.

 EDIT: Larry, is this the one? iPOWER IP-FC904U 9 Volt - 9V NiMH/Lithium/NiCD Battery Charg..

 So the type of battery for D4 doesn't matter much? Not to the extend of the SR71/SR71A case?

 For this case, just need to find one with high capacity to last long?_

 

Yeah, that's the charger that I would consider if this was my primary portable amp, and the battery is here: iPOWER 9 Volt 500mAh Lithium Polymer Rechargeable Batteries9...


----------



## LionPlushie

I also found out that there is a 520mah version that is "Professional". Wondering if the extra 20mah is worth it or not. The other website that is selling the iPowerUS have stock for the professional model.

 EDIT: The Professional version cost 3USD more


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LionPlushie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also found out that there is a 520mah version that is "Professional". Wondering if the extra 20mah is worth it or not. The other website that is selling the iPowerUS have stock for the professional model._

 

Haven't seen the other website. Link?


----------



## LionPlushie

9V Lithium Ion / Lithium Polymer Rechargeable Batteries

 It cost 3USD more. But the 500mah is cheaper over here. And the shipping to oversea seems to be cheaper here too.

 EDIT: I saw this. The difference stated by the website.

  Quote:


 Frequently Asked Questions:
 Q. What is the difference between the consumer 9V-500 and the Pro 9V-520? A. The pro 520 contains the best grade/high spec raw materials, with special control electronics, yielding higher capacity and reliability. The 520 is enhanced to power digital systems with switching power supplies. The 520 will be able to handle current spikes,heavy supply filters,shorts and other high current and adverse load conditions, with a lower rate of failure and an average overall product capacity increase of 10%, day in, and day out. 
 

So the extra 3USD is worth for that difference?


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

do have a pic of the d4 next to the iqube and or predator?

 aaso imm very surprised the mustangg came in just under the iqube, isnt there significantly more power with the iqube?

 i was all set to try the d4 against my predator, but qube may be far superior?

 how close does the qube come to the lisa III power?

 lisa smokes my predator. i wonder how close the mustang comes to lisa

 and i was under4 the impression that the sr71a blackbird had far more power than the mustang?

 as always thanks for the tier 1 reviews

 3 cheers 4 u!


----------



## Skylab

I do not have a pic of those amps together, no. I have personally continued to use the iQube as my main portable headphone amp, and it has always delivered world class sound. I do not think it would be "far superior" to the Predator, but I do think it's a little better, yes.

 Also note I have never reviewed the SR71A Blackbird - just the earlier SR71. And also that power isn't what determines good sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not have a pic of those amps together, no. I have personally continued to use the iQube as my main portable headphone amp, and it has always delivered world class sound._

 

Hi Skylab
 How does the iQube drive the Beyerdynamic T1? Have you tried that yet - or is it even worth driving 600 Ohm cans form a portable?


----------



## Skylab

I would never bother to drive 600 ohm cans from a portable, no.


----------



## rasmushorn

OK - I guess I wil have to try it myself then


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I too would not pick any portable as my first (or second) choice amp with 600 ohm headphones. The ALO Amphora, 3MOVE and TTVJ portable Millett hybrid can almost drive my 600 ohm AKG K240M adequately, but nothing like a desktop amp with good voltage swing.


----------



## rasmushorn

There is no doubt about that. Of course a desktop amplifier will do a better job. The reason why I ask is that I have been surprised by the iQube before and what it can do. And as I am waiting for the T1 to arrive I am just wondering if the T1 will ever be one of the headphones I could bring with me on trips. But that depends on if it can be driven properly - or maybe just decently - by a portable. I guess time will tell.


----------



## Skylab

If you are willing to take the T1 on trips, you're braver than I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is plenty rugged, but I still don;t like traveling with stuff that expensive.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are willing to take the T1 on trips, you're braver than I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It is plenty rugged, but I still don;t like traveling with stuff that expensive._

 

Ahh - I don't think I am brave. I am definitely not talking backpacking in the jungle with the T1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 More like going to a caravan or places where things are under control. Maybe the LISA III will do a better job.


----------



## BlueFalc0n

Excellent write up. Thanks for taking the time. Bookmarked for future reference.


----------



## pj_rage

Skylab, you mention you would never bother to drive a 600 ohm headphone from a portable... but in your testing methodology you mention that your current tests include using your DT880/600s? Is using these headphones merely a test, and you don't really recommend this setup?

 On a related note, I'm really curious how the ibasso D4 performed with the DT880/600s (if you tried). Is it a comfortable enough setup until a higher voltage swing desktop amp is in play? Or does it do an injustice to both the headphones and amp?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for reminding me that the Methodology post was in bad need of an update!

 I actually only tried the 600 ohm Beyers as a sort of stress test. 600 ohm headphones and portable amps just are not really a good match. That's not the strong suit of a portable amp at all. In some cases it will work OK, but not ideally.

 So if I owned 600 ohm headphones, I would not buy a portable amp as a temporary measure, when there are good home amps that are under $300 that will work better. I would start with an inexpensive home amp, and then upgrade later if desired.

 And if I were building a portable rig, I would not use 600 ohm headphones.

 I hope that helps.


----------



## pj_rage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for reminding me that the Methodology post was in bad need of an update!

 I actually only tried the 600 ohm Beyers as a sort of stress test. 600 ohm headphones and portable amps just are not really a good match. That's not the strong suit of a portable amp at all. In some cases it will work OK, but not ideally.

 So if I owned 600 ohm headphones, I would not buy a portable amp as a temporary measure, when there are good home amps that are under $300 that will work better. I would start with an inexpensive home amp, and then upgrade later if desired.

 And if I were building a portable rig, I would not use 600 ohm headphones.

 I hope that helps._

 

Thanks for the details.

 The case I'm in is definitely temporary, for a home setup. I have a D4 coming to be used as a DAC for home and it will also see some portable use with my Westone 3s. I also have DT880/600s coming that I bought intending to buy the Little Dot MKIII to drive them. I tried to order the MKIII, but they are on break for Chinese new year, so I can't order it for a couple weeks. So now I'm kind of bummed, but curious how the D4 will drive the DT880s until I can get the MKIII. I'll be curious if what I'm hearing is total crap compared to how it will sound with the MKIII, or if it's reasonably reasonable (but not ideal).


----------



## Skylab

Well if it's THAT temporary, no big deal - it'll work OK.


----------



## pj_rage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if it's THAT temporary, no big deal - it'll work OK._

 

Cool, thanks


----------



## pj_rage

I hate to keep pestering you, but one last question about the D4 ... would it be suitable to drive the W3s without an impedance adapter? The W3s are rated at 30 ohms. I noticed you test with the Denon AH-D7000s which seem to have an impedance of 25 ohms, but I think there's more to it than just impedance right?

 If I do need an impedance adapter, would something like 75 ohms do the trick?


----------



## Skylab

I'm sorry - what are W3s?


----------



## gilency

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry - what are W3s?_

 

Westone 3's


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if it's THAT temporary, no big deal - it'll work OK._

 

Be sure to use a 9v battery for the 600 ohm phones, not 5v from USB.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sorry - what are W3s?_

 

Westone 3


----------



## Skylab

No clue then - I am not an IEM guy. Sorry.


----------



## pj_rage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No clue then - I am not an IEM guy. Sorry._

 

No problem!

 Did you notice any problems with the D4 and the AH-D7000s since they have low impedance?


----------



## pj_rage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be sure to use a 9v battery for the 600 ohm phones, not 5v from USB._

 

Thanks for the tip! That's definitely the plan.


----------



## headfone

I know the XIN Super_Micro_ was compared but how about the latest SuperMacro IV?


----------



## headfone

This tread is quite long and I haven't thoroughly searched neither it nor the rest of the forum ...that said...how do these 37 commercial amps compare with portable DIYs...e.g. PIMETA, etc.?


----------



## Skylab

I've not had a chance to audition the new Xin. No real experience with DIY amps, either, sorry.


----------



## Skylab

*Update *

*> Linesarossa W1 and W3*

 Info: linearossa by rudistor pacific

 I received a loaner of the “Linearossa” W1 and W3 from Sovkiller. He’s the US Distributor for Rudistor…and these amps are Rudistor amps. I will review them here separately, but they share a common website, and of course the same designer and loan source.


*W1*

 The W1 is very small and light. It has a small plastic housing, and uses a single AAA battery. Mini-jack input on the back, headphone mini-jack output on the front, along with slide-wheel volume control, and a switch with picture of a light bulb which indicated the on position – cute, but I’d have preferred an actual LED.

*Build Quality:* B: Best I can say is functional. It looks cheap, and it’s plastic – very different from it’s big brother W3. However, don’t judge a book by its cover…. No hiss I could detect even at the highest volume levels. Only the very slightest of turn-on tick. And what do you expect for $90?

*Treble:* A-: generally very good performance here, in that it is basically transparent and grain free, with good (if not great) detail. Definitely smooth sounding, and very clean, which is especially important, and rare, at this price point. I was pretty impressed – it provided great detail with no fatigue. Nice.

*Midrange:* A: Mids were very nice. Vocals rendered cleanly and without coloration. Highly transparent. Perhaps just slightly lush. Definitely very musical. No really identifiable colorations – just surprising strong performance from the little guy. Vocals and guitars were very well served.

*Bass:* A-: Tuneful, punchy bass, with excellent definition and articulation. No real complaints here either. Not bloated or exaggerated – but pretty much spot on. Not the last word in either depth or definition – but not colored.

*Neutrality:* A: While perhaps just a little mellow, the W1 is not colored that I can tell. Impressively so, in fact. Different recordings sounded – guess what – different! That’s always good – there was zero homogenizing effect here.

*Soundstaging:* A-: Maybe the one less than fully impressive trait. Was good but not great. Depth was better than width.

*Transparency:* A: Here again, very good performance not just where size and cost are factored in but even in absolute terms – this is a nicely transparent amp.

 Compared to the smaller and prettier iBasso T3, the W1 is a much better amp – more transparent, and offering a higher level of overall performance. And it’s cheaper! I was actually really impressed. It doesn’t look like much – but it sounds great! Highly recommended.

*W3*

 The W3 is both a DAC and a headphone amp. It has the most ins and outs of any device like it I have seen – coax, optical, and USB -- as well as an analog input, and the headphone output. There is a 2-position gain switch. As I have done throughout this process, my review was based on just the headphone amp from the line in, but I did briefly test the DAC, and found it to offer excellent sound as well.

*Build Quality:* A: Nice looking, sturdy metal case. Nice too big or small – basically in between. Not glitzy but very solid. It did have a very noticeable turn on “tick”, and also a strange power-off “thump” – but nothing that would cause any damage.

*Treble:* A: Very clean, and with good detail. Compared to the iQube, it lacks a little top end air and extension, and just a little forward in the mid-treble, but in general very good performance. Detail was excellent.

*Midrange:* A: Mids were very good, although just a little reticent. But they were very transparent, and the overall midband was very open sounding. Both the acoustic guitar and vocals from Holly Cole and Jesse Cook’s duo cover of Sting’s “Fragile” were very natural sounding.

*Bass:* A: Deep, tight, and well controlled. Compared to my reference amps, it lacked just a little bit of weight in absolute terms. But the paunchiness of The Hush Sounds’s “Medicine Man” was still delivered in full measure.

*Neutrality:* A: Not quite as neutral as the very best, but performance in line with its price class. Nothing stands out as a coloration, but there are a few little deviations from truly neutral. There were a few things I could hear when listening to Theater of Tragedy’s “Forever” that I have captured above – like a mid-treble that sticks out a little relative to the mids and the high treble. Still, excellent performance overall.

*Soundstaging:* A-: Like it’s little brother, this was the trait I thought was least impressive – vocals were very slightly flatter than is ideal, and the soundstage depth was a little less than the best. Width was excellent.

*Transparency:* A: Excellent performance in this regard – not a hint of grain or opaqueness - this is a transparent amp.

 I feel a little bad about judging the W3 just as an amp using its analog input – but that is what my methodology has been for this entire review. The W3 has an excellent DAC with not just USB, but BOTH Coax and toslink inputs. That makes it a very special product. I would not buy it if I did not plan to use the DAC – I think there are better values in that use case – but as a AMP/DAC combo, where you want more than just USB, the W3 is an outstanding value.


*Conclusions (3-4-10)*

 OK, so now it’s now 50 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 3. iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219 (Review Here )
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 10. Linearossa W3 @ $299 (review 
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 12. iBasso T3 @ $119.00 (Review here)
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 13. Linearossa W1 (review 
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## Jarmel

Don't you have an early copy of the Protector? How does that rank?


----------



## Skylab

I listened for a day or two to the Protector, but not long enough to do a formal review. It sounded very good. I have no immediate plans to review it, however. I have one more review to finish, and then I am taking a break.


----------



## Bennyboy71

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened for a day or two to the Protector, but not long enough to do a formal review. It sounded very good. I have no immediate plans to review it, however. I have one more review to finish, and then I am taking a break._

 

Thanks for all your hard work with this ongoing saga. 

 Just a question though - have you reviewed the MiniBox E+, or only the E? I can see the E placed pretty well, but I understand the E+ is much better?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks. I have never heard the E+.


----------



## debitsohn

thanks for all your hard work. through your review i was able to grab a tomahawk for very cheap even if the print is fading off and its a little banged up. i love it. i hope to be able to upgrade in the distant future but for now, i love my tomahawk.


----------



## headfone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've not had a chance to audition the new Xin. No real experience with DIY amps, either, sorry._

 

I've own(ed) and/or heard some of the better commercial amps, some of which you've tested. But after I started DIYing, I found that, AEBE, none of those commercial jobs were as good, regardless of price (no, I haven't heard the really high-end (=$$$) stuff) -- often, the DIYs are _orders of magnitude better_. The commercial amps I have are also heavily modded now (see sig), so (IMO) DIY skills pay off in just about every aspect.

 If one doesn't want to DIY/tweak/mod, s/he can still add DIYs to their roundup by looking in the "For Sale / Trade Forums" sub-forum.


----------



## Skylab

*> Leckerton Audio UHA-6S*

 Info: Leckerton Audio - Products - UHA-6S

 I received a loaner of the UHA-6S from Leckerton Audio. The UHA-6S is both a DAC and a headphone amp. It has both USB and Toslink optical inputs to the DAC, as well as an analog input, and the headphone output. There is a 2-position gain switch. The DAC is said to support up to 96/24 audio. As I have done throughout this process, my review was based on just the headphone amp from the analog input, but I did briefly test the DAC, and found it to offer excellent sound from both the USB and TOSLink inputs.
*Build Quality:* A: Very solid, sturdy metal case. Not really anything very exciting to look at but very solid. It had only a barely noticeable turn on “tick”, and was dead quiet. There is nothing sexy here, but definitely there IS good build quality.

*Treble:* A-: A slightly soft but very clean high end, and with good detail. Compared to the iQube, it lacks a little top end air and extension, but the treble is quite smooth otherwise and in general provides very good performance. Will be best not to pair it with dark sounding headphones, though.

*Midrange:* A: Mids were very slightly lush and warm, although in no way think or syrupy. And they were very transparent, and the overall the midrange sounded clean and transparent, lending the amp a very open sound. The acoustic guitar from Porcupine Tree’s “We Lost The Skyline” was extremely natural sounding, with real body to the guitar, and a great sense of presence on the strings.

*Bass:* A: Deep, tight, and well controlled. Compared to my reference amps, it was perhaps just a tiny bit fat in the bass in terms of weight. But the punchiness was not diminished, and the bass was in no way thick or slow, just a tiny bit overweight versus strictly neutral.

*Neutrality:* A-: As you can see from the above, the amp leans slightly toward the warm and mellow side, although this is not a defining trait. The overall performance is very smooth; but with a slightly downward-sloping character. Best with neutral or slightly lively headphones. 

*Soundstaging:* A: Soundstaging I felt was excellent. Lateral image placement was well defined, and instruments had good solidity. Width and depth were very good. Just short of the absolute best, but nonetheless very good.

*Transparency:* A: This also was excellent. There was no grain, etch, veil, or any other anomaly in the way of the music. The UHA-6S was a very transparent amplifier with all of the headphones I tried.

 As with the Linearrosa W3, I feel a little bad about judging the UHA-6S just as an amp using its analog input – but that is what my methodology has been for this entire review. There are better values in portable amps that do not have DACs. I would not buy the 6S if I did not plan to use the DAC. At $309, the UHA-6S is a very nice product, but faces some very stiff competition for what it delivers. I only recommend it for people who want a TOSlink input and where the slightly warm and mellow sound will make a good fit. A good solid product, but not a groundbreaker.


*Conclusions (3-24-10)*

 OK, so now it’s now 51 amps! Here is my view on how the amps stacked up. Note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 1. Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
 2. Qables iQube @ $605.00
 2. RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 2. Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)
 3. Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 3. Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 3. iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219 (Review Here )
 4. RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 4. RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 5. RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00
 5. Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 6. Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 7. RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 7. Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
 8. TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 8. iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 9. Xin Reference @ $279.99
 9. Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 9. Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
 10. ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 10. Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 10. Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 10. Linearrosa W3 @ $299 (review here )
 10. Leckerton Audio UHA-6S @ $309
 11. iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 12. iBasso T3 @ $119.00 (Review here)
 13. Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 13. Linearrosa W1 (review here )
 14. mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 14. Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 15. Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 15. Storm Little-2 (review here)
 15. Storm B4
 16. Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here
 16. iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 17. Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
 18. Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 18. Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 18. C&C XO @ $209.00
 19 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 19. iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 20. NuForce $99 (review here)
 20. Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 21. Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 22. Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
 22. iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 23. Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 24. C&C Box V2
 25. Storm B3
 25. Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## TopPop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*W1*

 The W1 is very small and light. 
 [...]_

 

Quick question for you, Skylab, about the W1: how is the channel balance at low volumes? It seems that this amp may have slightly lower output than others in the price range... which may be good for me, actually. 

 Looking for $100 (or less) amp which will work well with my (sensitive) UM3X at low volume levels. Thoughts?


----------



## Skylab

I did not notice any imbalance, but I no longer have the review loaner to check with, sorry.


----------



## TopPop

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not notice any imbalance, but I no longer have the review loaner to check with, sorry._

 

S'okay. Thanks for the help!


----------



## sdotfire

Great review, it's really helping me make my decision on what amp to get. I have Shure SE530's right now and am debating getting either custom moldings for them or upgrading to the 3/UM3X (whichever is bassier, I'm kinda a bass-head). I was wondering if anyone could tell me which amp would have the ultimate bass, it seems that RSA make really quality products and I am leaning towards their predator model. They are kinda pricy though and my budget may not warrant an RSA purchase and I really like the ability to adjust the bass, mids, and trebles on the amp. Do you all think the PD XM5 would be a better choice for me, or does anyone have any other suggestions for bass-heavy portable amps? I mean iBasso seems like a viable option just considering its name...Any input would be much appreciated, thank you.


----------



## MightyFine Shindig

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind:

 As an amp soley, which sounds better paired with the re0's out of an iPod, 3Move or Arrow 12HE? Using the line out.

 If DAC was to be taken into consideration, running from a desktop into Denon D2000's, is it worth getting the arrow + a seperate DAC or the 3Move Combo, keeping in mine that the Re0's will be used on the go with an iPod?

 By seperate DAC, I refer to something like the DAC cable or a uDAC (or something similar in price to those).

 Much appreciated.


----------



## trentino

I notice that you haven't included the P3+ in your comparision Skylab. Of course you can't include every amp out there, but I'm just wondering - is there a reason you haven't reviewed the P3+? I keep reading it's great, sometimes people say the amp is better than the one found in D4 Mamba. And since D4 Mamba is top 5 in your review I'm a bit interested in your view of the P3+. Thanks!


----------



## prone2phone

if some amp isn't in this list it is because makers of it are not confident about their product and are afraid to send it to skylab. imo


----------



## mrarroyo

^ sorry but that is an assumption and a pretentious one at best. Nothing should be inferred if an amp is not on the list, if in doubt ask and wait for an answer from Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MightyFine Shindig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a couple of questions if you don't mind:

 As an amp soley, which sounds better paired with the re0's out of an iPod, 3Move or Arrow 12HE? Using the line out.

 If DAC was to be taken into consideration, running from a desktop into Denon D2000's, is it worth getting the arrow + a seperate DAC or the 3Move Combo, keeping in mine that the Re0's will be used on the go with an iPod?

 By seperate DAC, I refer to something like the DAC cable or a uDAC (or something similar in price to those).

 Much appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm sorry, but not having heard the Re0's, I can't answer this question.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *trentino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I notice that you haven't included the P3+ in your comparision Skylab. Of course you can't include every amp out there, but I'm just wondering - is there a reason you haven't reviewed the P3+? I keep reading it's great, sometimes people say the amp is better than the one found in D4 Mamba. And since D4 Mamba is top 5 in your review I'm a bit interested in your view of the P3+. Thanks!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if some amp isn't in this list it is because makers of it are not confident about their product and are afraid to send it to skylab. imo_

 

No one has offered me the P3+ to review. So I have not reviewed it. Simple as that


----------



## goranilic

How would you compare Mini3(misterX) and Linearossa W1, please? On your list, you got better rates for W1, but Mini3 is higher on the list.
 Thx


----------



## goranilic

Double post...Please delete!!!


----------



## Asr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *prone2phone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if some amp isn't in this list it is because makers of it are not confident about their product and are afraid to send it to skylab. imo_

 

I personally oppose Skylab's execution of an ordered ranking of the portable amps he's reviewed for three reasons: (1) Ranking more than one of anything, especially headphone amps, involves both subjectivity and multiple complicated criteria. What can make one amp rank higher (or lower) than another? Amps are not just all about their sound either and also have different feature sets, aesthetics, & form factors. (2) Who's going to buy any of the amps that are lower in the rankings? And will anyone really want to buy the 3rd, 5th, or 8th top amp? Of course I can't presume to speak for any vendors but I can't help but wonder if the fact that Skylab ranks reviewed products might influence some vendors' decisions whether to send him gear or not. (3) Is the entire ranking still even valid considering the timeframe that's passed since the first portable amp that was reviewed until now, and the additional experience that Skylab has cumulatively acquired, and any differences in his sources and/or headphones since then?

 Personally I have more respect for vendors who choose not to send their amps to Skylab for the above-listed reasons.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally oppose Skylab's execution of an ordered ranking of the portable amps he's reviewed for three reasons: (1) Ranking more than one of anything, especially headphone amps, involves both subjectivity and multiple complicated criteria. What can make one amp rank higher (or lower) than another? Amps are not just all about their sound either and also have different feature sets, aesthetics, & form factors. (2) Who's going to buy any of the amps that are lower in the rankings? And will anyone really want to buy the 3rd, 5th, or 8th top amp? Of course I can't presume to speak for any vendors but I can't help but wonder if the fact that Skylab ranks reviewed products might influence some vendors' decisions whether to send him gear or not. (3) Is the entire ranking still even valid considering the timeframe that's passed since the first portable amp that was reviewed until now, and the additional experience that Skylab has cumulatively acquired, and any differences in his sources and/or headphones since then?

 Personally I have more respect for vendors who choose not to send their amps to Skylab for the above-listed reasons._

 

You make some good points, especially regarding the extended time frame. There is also the issue of synergy with certain phones that isn't fleshed out. However, I think that most people reading this thread will recognize that these rankings are simply Rob's preferences in amps; and the reader would look at the actual comments about the sound and build, and then use that to aid in their decision and not use the rank alone to make their decision.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally oppose Skylab's execution of an ordered ranking of the portable amps he's reviewed for three reasons: (1) Ranking more than one of anything, especially headphone amps, involves both subjectivity and multiple complicated criteria. What can make one amp rank higher (or lower) than another? Amps are not just all about their sound either and also have different feature sets, aesthetics, & form factors. (2) Who's going to buy any of the amps that are lower in the rankings? And will anyone really want to buy the 3rd, 5th, or 8th top amp? Of course I can't presume to speak for any vendors but I can't help but wonder if the fact that Skylab ranks reviewed products might influence some vendors' decisions whether to send him gear or not. (3) Is the entire ranking still even valid considering the timeframe that's passed since the first portable amp that was reviewed until now, and the additional experience that Skylab has cumulatively acquired, and any differences in his sources and/or headphones since then?

 Personally I have more respect for vendors who choose not to send their amps to Skylab for the above-listed reasons._

 

ad 1. For me knowing that this is just Skylabs own taste and HIS opinion for making the list makes it ok to have a personal list - and share it with the rest of us.

 ad 2. I would like to buy the number 10 - 12 or 14 on the list if the price / sound-quality ratio was good enough for me or for other people on this forum. 

 I also think that synergy with headphones is very important - Which is why I think it is great that we can see exactly what other equipment the amplifiers on this list have been tested with. 

 I have to admit that I am one of the Skylab-followers. Being on a limited budget and living in the hill-billy area of Denmark I have no way to ever get to listen to all the great stuff people write about here. I go to all local meets, help arrange meets, visit HiFi stores when traveling I try to get all the impressions I can from other sources. But really I do understand your concern and I agree to your points. I just have to say that after following this forum for some years I find that Skylab is one of the reviewers here whose taste is very close to my own - as far as I can read. So for me it is of GREAT value to read what he says to all the new amplifiers, portable and desktop - and even headphones. It is not the only source and opinion for me to make a buying decision - but a strong indication that if he thinks it is good - then there is a good chance I will like it too. 

 What could help to even this more out would be if more people would pour the same amount of energy, resources and time into listening to so many different products and start making their own lists.


----------



## pj_rage

I think Skylab is very clear that the amps are rated entirely on sound and the rankings do not include features, dac components, battery life, etc. I also think that he's pretty clear that the rankings are only his opinion.

 Still, I understand your point, especially about the extended time frame, which makes me wonder how well he may remember an amp he heard a couple years ago and hasn't owned or heard since, but still, I take his rankings for what they are worth... just his opinion of how well they stack up against each other as best as he can remember based on his notes. I still do my own research for other people's opinions of the products as well.

 It's true though, given the sheer amount of amps he has tried, he's clearly an expert on the topic and therefore people (rightfully) trust his opinion, and when sound quality is most people's top priority, it's hard to want to choose an amp that is lower on the list. I guess for that reason it may give vendors pause to send him their products, if they fear that it may wind up lower on the list for whatever reason.

 Really it seems a big part of the problem, if there is one, is the weight his opinion carries given his reputation. If I were to rank 50 amps in my opinion, no one would care because I don't have the same reputation that took years of solid reviews and helping others to build. But if Skylab says an amp sucks, or that another amp costs less and sounds better, people will be hard pressed to buy it.

 Anyway, even though I recognize the potential problems with the system, I'm personally still really glad that Skylab does rank the amps. It's nice to have a quick reference guide to the opinion of one of the most respected members of the community. I don't think it's the bible of portable headphone amps, but it's definitely a great point of reference. I think so anyway, so many thanks to Skylab! I only wish there was a similar guide to desktop amps, and even more helpful and intriguing would be one for DACs.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally oppose Skylab's execution of an ordered ranking of the portable amps he's reviewed for three reasons: (1) Ranking more than one of anything, especially headphone amps, involves both subjectivity and multiple complicated criteria. What can make one amp rank higher (or lower) than another? Amps are not just all about their sound either and also have different feature sets, aesthetics, & form factors. (2) Who's going to buy any of the amps that are lower in the rankings? And will anyone really want to buy the 3rd, 5th, or 8th top amp? Of course I can't presume to speak for any vendors but I can't help but wonder if the fact that Skylab ranks reviewed products might influence some vendors' decisions whether to send him gear or not. (3) Is the entire ranking still even valid considering the timeframe that's passed since the first portable amp that was reviewed until now, and the additional experience that Skylab has cumulatively acquired, and any differences in his sources and/or headphones since then?

 Personally I have more respect for vendors who choose not to send their amps to Skylab for the above-listed reasons._

 

Firstly, let me say that there is, of course, some validity to your concern, which I recognize. But allow me to set the record straight on a few things:

 1. I do not solicit amps to be reviewed for this list anymore, and have not in a long time. The means I *ONLY* review amps where the the maker has reached out to ME to review their amp. So clearly, any amp that is added to this list was at the request of the maker, and as such, they should have no issue whatsoever to be on it. Also as such, no amp maker EVER gets pressured to submit am amp for review - since I never ask for one.

 2. The time-frame of the review period has made the rankings difficult, but I have bought various of the amps to keep them around for comparisons' sake, and I use those to calibrate the review. Still, it's not perfect. One way in which I have attempted to ameliorate that, however, is by ranking the amps in "clusters", which is why there are multiple amps with the same ranking.

 It may well be that this thread has gotten too long in the tooth, and my reviewing interests lie in areas other than portable amps anyway, which is why I no longer seek out amps to add to this thread.

 And of course I have ALWAYS been VERY clear that this list is my opinion, nothing more.

 I'm not sure of that clears anything up at all, but in any case, it is what it is.


----------



## CEE TEE

Dear Skylab,

 Just want to thank you for the reviews.

 I want to go for it for my first amp and just buy a great DAC/Amp to begin with that I will be happy with for a long time.

 I don't want to work my way up through the cheaper stuff while always wanting more and then collecting amps that will just sit along the way. 

 Bang for the buck still appears to be the iBasso D4 and your review just puts the stamp of approval on it. The DAC already got great kudos and so I can have both at reasonable price and not feel like I am giving anything up.

 So that is very helpful and now I just need to find out how to get one since they are out of stock!!

 Cheers...


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## Drag0n

It took this long to complain about Skylabs amp reviews?
 Everyone knew about them for so long.
 Skylab has just as much right to say his opinions as anyone else talking about equipment on here. 
 Just because he may get a bit of a cult following doesnt take away the same rights as everyone else to say his opinion. He doesnt get paid for any of this, and everyone knows its his opinion, and he never claimed to have golden ears or to be the expert.
 Everyone also knows hes more into tubes, likes certain headphones, and is a known basshead by admission.

 Also..form factor doesnt matter. All his rankings are by sound only, not battery life and form factor. He may mention other attributes of the amps in the discription, but it has nothing to do with rankings.

 It doesnt mean i agree with every amps ranking on the list. I think the Portaphile is a bit closer to the Tomahawk in ranking then how he has it listed, but thats how he hears it with his own ears, not with mine.

 I like the reviews and i hope Skylab continues to review them. I also hope others do it also so we have comparisons.

 If he was a paid shill on the forum, maybe we can complain....but hes not some official reviewer. Hes just a guy like the rest of us saying his opinion, and we all have a right to make reviews also....its just that instead of one review, he made a train of many products and compared them over a long time.

 As far as i know, theres no limit on how long you can keep a review running.


----------



## gilency

Skylab. I don't know you but you showed class defusing confrontation. Not an easy task to do. 
 I think your reviews are great and have enjoyed reading them. 
 Keep up the good work!


----------



## brendon

I am a newbie here but I bought my first portable amp after reading Skylab's reviews (Meier Corda Porta III) . I did not really base my decision on his rankings (though they are handy), but I read what he had to say about each amp in my price range (I could not afford the higher ranked ones) and I zeroed in on the Corda purely for its wide soundstage. Suffice to say I feel his assessment was bang on and even though I have since moved to an Ibasso P3+ I still like the Soundstage on the Corda.

 More than anything I feel we need to appreciate all the hard work he has put in to make such an exhaustive comparison. Let us not forget that he does not get paid to do this and it takes an effort to review so many amplifiers. 

 For sure, there are very valid criticisms. But since people like me who live far away dont have access to these amps, Skylabs comparison is the only one place resource. So rather that fault finding I feel we should encourage him to get more amps to add to the list like the Headstage Arrow, P3+ and RSA Protector so that we can get to know how they compare with his reference amps like the Quable and Triad Lisa III.


----------



## gsawdy

brendon;6538939 said:
			
		

> More than anything I feel we need to appreciate all the hard work he has put in to make such an exhaustive comparison. Let us not forget that he does not get paid to do this and it takes an effort to review so many amplifiers. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> X2
> ...


----------



## shinobi00

Thanks for all the reviews dude, I've read through them countless times.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gilency* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab. I don't know you but you showed class defusing confrontation. Not an easy task to do. 
 I think your reviews are great and have enjoyed reading them. 
 Keep up the good work!_

 

Kudos Skylab! 

 I too have really enjoyed his reviews! Skylab is a real asset to Head-fi.

 As noted, isn't posting our opinions and discussing them on this site what we all do? Why should Skylab be denied this basic Head-fi right?

 FWIW, I have continually seen him give away his reviewed amps for only shipping costs on the F/S fourm (so he's not profiting from them, but yet, we are gaining from his reviews!).

 Keep up the great work Mr. Reviewerus Prolificus!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brendon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am a newbie here but I bought my first portable amp after reading Skylab's reviews (Meier Corda Porta III) . I did not really base my decision on his rankings (though they are handy), but I read what he had to say about each amp in my price range (I could not afford the higher ranked ones) and I zeroed in on the Corda purely for its wide soundstage..._

 

I feel as if I had some part in this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was happy for Rob to accept my offer to loan him my Porta Corda...now if I could just get my hands on that new Meier portable amp...which I don't need of course but _want._





*Keep up the great work Mr.Skylab*


----------



## syke

Hi Skylab,

 Would love to hear your opinions about the RSA Protector.


----------



## syke

Hi Skylab,

 I would love to hear your opinions about the RSA Protector.


----------



## MightyFine Shindig

...http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/f...ector-481094/?


----------



## brendon

^^ The review you posted is a fine one indeed. However that review is in isolation. One major plus for Skylab's reviews is that he compares the amps to his reference amps so you know where the amp in question stands.

 For instance RSA makes many different amps and there are plenty of glowing reviews of them. The issue is how does one come to know which among them is better ? In Skylab's comparison, we can see where each amp stands in relation to other amps.

 Of course, Skylabs ranking has to be taken with a pinch of salt, but I would bet money that there wouldn't be too many changes if someone else was ranking them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel as if I had some part in this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was happy for Rob to accept my offer to loan him my Porta Corda...now if I could just get my hands on that new Meier portable amp...which I don't need of course but want.





*Keep up the great work Mr.Skylab*



_

 

Many thanks to you also ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I was in the US, I would have loved to lend my Ibasso P3+ to Skylab so that he could add that to his list of reviews. But alas I stay a good 13k kms away.


----------



## mrarroyo

Darn this has taken an unexpected turn. We may not always agree w/ Rob's rankings but ... he does it with his ears, cans, music, oh yeah it is called an OPINION.

 The fact the reviews are over time is not an issue since a number of amps are kept as reference points. Plus Rob ranks them in groups. As far as buying an amp not ranked high, yes it happens I recently bought the PA2V2 which I owned back in 2005. Why because of size, price, battery life, Gary's customer service, etc.

 Rob, keep it up it is all good!


----------



## cooperpwc

I'm a huge fan - but Rob, you know that. BTW I finally heard the 3Move today here in HK and the improvement over the Headsix (a fine little amp) was exactly as you described. Jan has confirmed that the Stepdance will be a further step up for IEM use and (surprise, surprise) I am on the waiting list. 

 I hope to own it even before you review but I also do hope that you review it.

 It's a resource, folks. Nothing more and nothing less. However it is coming from a person whose integrity has proved to be 'execute my estate' quality. (Interested, Rob?) Don't read this thread if you don't want to. I am going to keep reading!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for all the kind words fellas. You're making me blush


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As far as buying an amp not ranked high, yes it happens I recently bought the PA2V2 which I owned back in 2005. Why because of size, price, battery life, Gary's customer service, etc._

 

Yes, but that's because you've been on Head-fi for a while.

 From the perspective of a new user, this thread appears as a reference because there's a quite an exhaustive list of amps and Skylab is an experienced member. Why would they bother searching more, this thread has it all? Problem is, from my experience and I think even Skylab would agree with me, the difference between a great majority of these portable amps is marginal at most. Combined with the fact that they were all reviewed at different points in time, which means it relies on audio memory and there were no direct comparisons most of the time, the value of a numbered list like that is questionable.

 I think Skylab is a valuable member of Head-fi and I appreciate his efforts to write reviews, but I also think that the idea of making numbered lists has negative effects for the community, because it appears as an easy shortcut for the noobs who'll only buy the "best rated" amps to save the effort of reading.

 IMO, a big disclaimer should be put on top of the first post to warn readers that it's a VERY subjective review, and that people should listen with their own ears, because it's the opinion of one user only and there certainly isn't any consensus.


----------



## Skylab

So in your opinion, the fact that I have "JUST MY OPINION" in all-caps at the end of the review right by the rankings is not sufficient? (I am sincerely asking this question).


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in your opinion, the fact that I have "JUST MY OPINION" in all-caps at the end of the review right by the rankings is not sufficient? (I am sincerely asking this question)._

 

Well, most of the time, people start reading posts by the top, and they don't necessarily read them from the beginning to the end, so yes, I think it'd be better if the disclaimer was on top. Just my 2 cents.

 Also, the fact that it's all based on memory should be emphasized.


----------



## Skylab

OK. Please read the top of the review now, and the last paragraph of post 8 (which outlines the test methodology).

 I believe that is more than sufficient.


----------



## gp_hebert

Thanks! I have nothing more to add really, that covers it all.


----------



## Skylab

Cool. Thanks for your comments. I want to have the appropriate disclaimers in place, for people who are new and may not understand what's involved. But I put enough work into this that I am not of a mind to scrap it


----------



## Region2

I never got around to saying this, though you must get this quite a bit, Skylab, but thank you. I am finally starting on my audiophile journey and this guide gave me an amazing start. I have linked this thread to several friends that are similarly interested. The ranking + prices is probably my favorite bit of your review

 I hope one day I can contribute at least 10% of what this thread has done to my development as a headphone addict.


----------



## mrarroyo

Well, I am an opinionated basta^% and as such I will say that if a person is new into the hobby and just wants to read a quick and dirty so as not to spend time doing the research well ... *tough luck*. If he/she is in such a rush then he/she risks spending money unnecessarily and so be it. I mean, this is not kindergarten where you are spoon fed.


----------



## cooperpwc

Miguel, I am sympathetic to your view. Research is key. I also think that one of the greatest challenges for the just-arrived is to cut through the fanboyism and FOTMism. By identifying a variety of threads from people who combine experience, love of the art, and intregrity, one can really learn a lot. You have to read and read and read. This is one of those threads.


----------



## pj_rage

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am an opinionated basta^% and as such I will say that if a person is new into the hobby and just wants to read a quick and dirty so as not to spend time doing the research well ... *tough luck*. If he/she is in such a rush then he/she risks spending money unnecessarily and so be it. I mean, this is not kindergarten where you are spoon fed._

 

And not for nothing, but they could do a lot worse than going on Skylab's recommendations...


----------



## brendon

Ok ok, now that the review disclaimers are all settled, someone please lend Skylab some of the popular amps that have not been reviwed like the Ibasso P3+, Headstage Arrow and RSA Protector. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Who knows maybe the Protector will become the new reference amp to compare with the 'lesser' amps.


----------



## subzerorn

I just recently purchased an HD 650 and right now its being plugged into some old Yamaha amplifier HTR 5740. I mostly will use it on my PC but I want a portable amplifier. I dont know if I want an Amp/Dac combo since I dont really have any high end music files to listen to atm.Can you connect an Amp/Dac to a portable CD player and still put out amazing sound? 

 Amps I have in mind based on Skylabs round up are:

 1.Emmeline “The Predator”, Portable USB DAC/AMP
 (Includes the universal adapter/charger.) $475.00 
 2.pico PORTABLE USB DAC / AMP $499.99

 For portable set up I will probably just be using my Iphone 3GS with a few 320kbps MP3s for now.

 Do you think these selection makes sense even though my source wont be THAT good to begin with? Do you think Amp/Dac combo is what I need or should I just stick to just an AMP for now.If so, what do you have in mind as far as portable Amp that can not only just drive an HD 650 but also put out good Sound Quality.

 Thanks


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brendon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok ok, now that the review disclaimers are all settled, someone please lend Skylab some of the popular amps that have not been reviwed like the Ibasso P3+, Headstage Arrow and RSA Protector. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Who knows maybe the Protector will become the new reference amp to compare with the 'lesser' amps._

 

The RSA Protector is on it's way back to me for review and it will be added to this list in the coming weeks.


----------



## flargosa

Looking forward to your review of the amp. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RSA Protector is on it's way back to me for review and it will be added to this list in the coming weeks._


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RSA Protector is on it's way back to me for review and it will be added to this list in the coming weeks._

 

Skylab, please make sure you have at least 300-400 hours of burn in on the Protector. My Portector is at 450 hrs, though not comparing every 50 hours but I felt it has gotten a little smoother with just a little bit more hours.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *subzerorn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just recently purchased an HD 650 and right now its being plugged into some old Yamaha amplifier HTR 5740. I mostly will use it on my PC but I want a portable amplifier. I dont know if I want an Amp/Dac combo since I dont really have any high end music files to listen to atm.Can you connect an Amp/Dac to a portable CD player and still put out amazing sound? 

 Amps I have in mind based on Skylabs round up are:

 1.Emmeline “The Predator”, Portable USB DAC/AMP
 (Includes the universal adapter/charger.) $475.00 
 2.pico PORTABLE USB DAC / AMP $499.99

 For portable set up I will probably just be using my Iphone 3GS with a few 320kbps MP3s for now.

 Do you think these selection makes sense even though my source wont be THAT good to begin with? Do you think Amp/Dac combo is what I need or should I just stick to just an AMP for now.If so, what do you have in mind as far as portable Amp that can not only just drive an HD 650 but also put out good Sound Quality.

 Thanks_

 

HD650 need more power than you can get from most portables, so if you need a portable amp the Protector is the best choice (must be running in balanced mode for the bump in power); with 3MOVE close behind in second, and the Pico behind that in power but still ahead of the Predator. 

 Instead of an amp with integrated DAC, you could feed the Protector with a $99 uDAC and get great sound, and almost not believe you are using portable gear. And the uDAC RCA out feeding the amp will be an upgrade to the 3MOVE's or Predator's DAC as well. 

 The Pico amp with DAC will have a better DAC than the 3MOVE/Predator, and the DAC is a little better than the RCA out of the uDAC, but Pico will have a little less power than the Protector or 3MOVE. Still, Pico has a bit more power than the Predator for HD650 and if you only want to chose between the two amps you listed the Pico would be the one for HD650.


----------



## subzerorn

Thanks HeadphoneAddict!


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Pico amp with DAC will have a better DAC than the 3MOVE/Predator, and the DAC is a little better than the RCA out of the uDAC_

 

Hi headphoneaddict, is there a better portable DAC better than the DAC section of the PICO Amp/DAC with similar size?
 Thnaks


----------



## mrarroyo

Jalo the answer is yes, no, or maybe. A lot depends on the sound you are looking for and the DAC synergism's with the rest of your gear. Part of the equation is how you are going to feed the dac: optical, coaxial, or USB. If using USB to feed the DAC then the D4 Mamba would be my top choice specially w/ a TopKit from HiFlight. Ideally you should listen to the various DAC's so you make the decision. Any meets close to you?


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jalo the answer is yes, no, or maybe. A lot depends on the sound you are looking for and the DAC synergism's with the rest of your gear. Part of the equation is how you are going to feed the dac: optical, coaxial, or USB. If using USB to feed the DAC then the D4 Mamba would be my top choice specially w/ a TopKit from HiFlight. Ideally you should listen to the various DAC's so you make the decision. Any meets close to you?_

 

Thanks for the yes, no and maybe. I should be more specific. I am trying to find a better stand alone portable USB DAC that I can use on the road from a laptop setup. As far as DAC is concern, I just want the best clean, neutral DAC. I can adjust the rest with my amp and phone.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the yes, no and maybe. I should be more specific. I am trying to find a better stand alone portable USB DAC that I can use on the road from a laptop setup. As far as DAC is concern, I just want the best clean, neutral DAC. I can adjust the rest with my amp and phone._

 

Then you got an answer, for USB the iBasso D4.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Then you got an answer, for USB the iBasso D4._

 

Even better than the Pico DAC? if so, by how much? I do appreciate you take on the DAC.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi headphoneaddict, is there a better portable DAC better than the DAC section of the PICO Amp/DAC with similar size?
 Thnaks_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jalo the answer is yes, no, or maybe. A lot depends on the sound you are looking for and the DAC synergism's with the rest of your gear. Part of the equation is how you are going to feed the dac: optical, coaxial, or USB. If using USB to feed the DAC then the D4 Mamba would be my top choice specially w/ a TopKit from HiFlight. Ideally you should listen to the various DAC's so you make the decision. Any meets close to you?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even better than the Pico DAC? if so, by how much? I do appreciate you take on the DAC._

 

I'd say the D4 sounds very much like the Pico DAC, and the power is close with 9v battery, but it only runs 8-10 hours on battery vs 30.

 The CEntrance DACport 24/96 USB DAC/amp is my favorite portable USB DAC, but it's not going to have the power you want for HD650. It drives the HD600 just well enough to get a little louder than I usually listen, but wont have the impact of the Protector or 3MOVE. So you'd have to feed the output into a more powerful amp like you would with the uDAC. It's USB only and no battery, so it's portable in the sense that your laptop is portable. Using it as a DAC/pre-amp actually works quite well, and I like to feed the DACport into the Protector. But it's also $399 as a 24/96 USB DAC.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say the D4 sounds very much like the Pico DAC, and the power is close with 9v battery, but it only runs 8-10 hours on battery vs 30.

 The CEntrance DACport 24/96 USB DAC/amp is my favorite portable USB DAC, but it's not going to have the power you want for HD650. It drives the HD600 just well enough to get a little louder than I usually listen, but wont have the impact of the Protector or 3MOVE. So you'd have to feed the output into a more powerful amp like you would with the uDAC. It's USB only and no battery, so it's portable in the sense that your laptop is portable. Using it as a DAC/pre-amp actually works quite well, and I like to feed the DACport into the Protector. But it's also $399 as a 24/96 USB DAC._

 


 Thanks Larry, I did went back and read some 30 pages of the D4 thread after I posted above and noted your opinion . Thanks for your patient and willingness to repeat something that you already said in another thread. I hate to divert from this thread but since we are on the topics, I heard some new DACs are coming out may be with the Sabre chip, do you think that will take the current DAC to a newer level?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Larry, I did went back and read some 30 pages of the D4 thread after I posted above and noted your opinion . Thanks for your patient and willingness to repeat something that you already said in another thread. I hate to divert from this thread but since we are on the topics, I heard some new DACs are coming out may be with the Sabre chip, do you think that will take the current DAC to a newer level?_

 

No idea.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even better than the Pico DAC? if so, by how much? I do appreciate you take on the DAC._

 

With my music, gear, and ears ... YES.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RSA Protector is on it's way back to me for review and it will be added to this list in the coming weeks._

 

Even though I already own the Protector myself, but have not yet heard it in balanced mode though.. I would still love to hear your review.


----------



## headfone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've not had a chance to audition the new Xin. No real experience with DIY amps, either, sorry._

 

I would encourage one purchase a DIY amp in the used marketplace (e.g., this forum has a dedicated section) or get a DIYer to build a DIY amp for them, like Pimeta v2. Three years ago (before I went all-DIY) I forked over mucho $$ for a "highly-rated" (and, IMO, over-rated and over-priced) XIN SuperMacro. My Pimeta is so sonically above and beyond the XIN SuperMacro, it's not even funny. The minor trade-off of a slightly larger unit (Pimeta) is a trivial issue, IMO.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *headfone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would encourage one purchase a DIY amp in the used marketplace (e.g., this forum has a dedicated section) or get a DIYer to build a DIY amp for them, like Pimeta v2. Three years ago (before I went all-DIY) I forked over mucho $$ for a "highly-rated" (and, IMO, over-rated and over-priced) XIN SuperMacro. My Pimeta is so sonically above and beyond the XIN SuperMacro, it's not even funny. The minor trade-off of a slightly larger unit (Pimeta) is a trivial issue, IMO._

 

I had a desktop Pimeta with AD744 that beat up my Xin Super Macro III with AD797 upgrade. I always wondered how they sound with a lower voltage battery supply - I assume the same just not as powerful.


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sonic 748i* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though I already own the Protector myself, but have not yet heard it in balanced mode though.. I would still love to hear your review._

 

You really need to use it in balanced mode. Power increases a lot so you end up dropping the volume knob, and it definitely sounds better. I only got to do a quick A/B since i sent my 16's in for a refit, but there was noticeable difference! My protector was only burned in via SE too, so not sure if there's burn in to do on the balanced sections.


----------



## headfone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a desktop Pimeta with AD744 that beat up my Xin Super Macro III with AD797 upgrade. I always wondered how they sound with a lower voltage battery supply - I assume the same just not as powerful._

 

Yeah...I also rolled various op-amps thru my Xin SM, incl. AD797, OPA627, AD825, AD8620, etc. The AD825 is probably best -- it's a sleeper op-amp if there ever one one!
 I also tricked n' tweaked the Xin SM out in several ways, including op-amp bypass caps and snubbers (to Xin's credit, he does provide landing pads to add extra SMD caps). Alas, not a whole lot of room in there to do much else.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really need to use it in balanced mode. Power increases a lot so you end up dropping the volume knob, and it definitely sounds better. I only got to do a quick A/B since i sent my 16's in for a refit, but there was noticeable difference! My protector was only burned in via SE too, so not sure if there's burn in to do on the balanced sections._

 

Hi OPTiK, I'm waiting for Craig over at Whiplash Audio to return from vacation so I can then get my TWag cables reterminated. I can't wait to hear this thing balanced!


----------



## Skylab

*Adding Ray Samuels Audio "The Protector" and the Musashi Sound Technology Fi.Quest, AND a change to the Ranking System*
   
   
*Ray Samuels Audio “The Protector” Balanced Portable Amp*
   
*info: *http://raysamuelsaudio.com/products/protector
   
  The Protector is billed as the world’s first Balanced Portable amp. I actually know of no other balanced portable amp, so this is a reasonable claim. When used via its balanced output, The Protector phase-splits the input and amplifies the signal in balanced mode.
   
  All of the below describes the amp IN BALANCED MODE, using the HifiMan HE-5 and the DT880/600. I did use the amp in single-ended mode, and in that regard it is still very good, but not quite as good as the P-51 Mustang. I would not recommend The Protector unless you plan to use it to drive balanced headphones.
   
*Build Quality:* A+: Typical RSA portable amp – about the best combination of excellent build quality and nice looks that you get No audible hiss whatsoever in low gain – in medium and high, there was some hiss at the very highest levels, but not enough to be an issue, since if you use that much gain you would be deaf soon anyway.

*Treble*: A+: A very slightly shelved down very top end, and a but very clean high end overall, and with outstanding detail. There is a natural quality to The Protector’s treble that is a little hard to describe unless you hear it. It’s effortless, grain-free, transparent, and smooth, while revealing lots of detail.

*Midrange*: A+: Mids were very slightly forward, although not grainy or unnatural sounding. And they were very transparent, and the overall the midrange of The Protector was astonishingly clean and transparent, to a degree that is normally reserved only to home amps. The acoustic guitar from Porcupine Tree’s “Stars Die” from “We Lost the Skyline” was extremely natural sounding, again in a way that is quite surprising.
   
*Bass*: A+: The Protector has weighty, deep, tight, and well controlled bass that is very well defined. RSA amps have all had a full, tight bass, and this is the case here too. It is hard to imagine wanting better bass out of a portable amp, or really any amp. The bass guitar and kickdrum intro on The Hush Sound’s “Medicine Man” was stunningly impactful.
   
*Neutrality:* A: Would be an A+ except for the slightly forward mids, which work a little better on some headphones than others. This is a much more subtle coloration than you get on most portable amps, but this amp has been aimed at the big boys, and in the context of that, it’s not more neutral, strictly speaking, than the other top tier headphones.

*Soundstaging*: A+: Soundstaging was truly a strength. Lateral image placement was very stable and well defined, and instruments floated in real space. Width and depth were absolutely among the very best if not the best there is in a portable amp, and again competitive in this regard with many home amps.
   
*Transparency: *A+: This also was excellent. The Protector is a highly transparent amp, to a simply amazing degree.
   
  So used as a balanced amp, The Protector is a real little marvel. It’s capable of a VERY big sound, and makes portable balanced listening a real possibility. That said, The Protector uses a special connector, and so the user will need to either recable using it, or use an adapter from it to existing XLR balanced connectors (which is what I did). The latter is not all that practical for true portable use. So these issues do have to be considered, depending on what your use goals for The Protector are. There is no denying the sound is outstanding. Ergonomically, for me personally, the amp isn’t really useful other than as a battery-powered home amp, but if you have some high-end IEM’s you can recable for balanced, I can imagine The Protector would be just the ticket.
   
   
   
*Musashi Sound Technology fi.Quest*
   
*Info: *n/a
   
   
  I was sent a Fi.Quest “portable” amp loaner sample to review. The version I received as the “Maxxed FX” version, and was fitted with Linear Tech LT1028ACN op-amps (which can be rolled). The fi.Quest is battery powered, and can be charged. It’s got a serious battery power supply – 24V! And as a result, it’s huge. Very big, and heavy. Like the Lisa III, it’s really more “transportable” than “portable”, in my book, but it is battery powered. Analog in and analog out only – no DAC. 3 position gain switch, and 3 position bass level switch – flat and two boost levels (about which, more later). The power supply on the back has a switch for two charging modes – one where you can use the amp still at 24V (which I guess charges more slowly), one where the amp delivers less voltage (16.8V), and one mode where charging is disabled and the PS is “isolated” (I assume this means from the charger, in the event that you had it connected).

*Build Quality:* A: Nothing sexy here, but rock solid. Sturdy metal chassis that is very well built. In low gain mode it was completely silent with the Edition 8. It was basically silent in medium gain. There was audible hiss at every level in the high gain mode – not enough to really be in the way of the music, but when no music was playing, it was audible. However, even in low gain mode, there was PLENTY of gain! I couldn’t really use anything but low gain mode.

*Treble:* A+: Treble was just slightly laid back, I felt, but still seemed to have excellent extension, and was super-smooth, with good detail. The cymbals on “Cosmic Thing” were very natural, and didn’t sound splashy, although they sound like they are being pounded, which is how they are recorded, so that’s a good thing. This is great treble performance – smooth, extended, and detailed, but with zero etch, grain, or unnatural force.

*Midrange:* A+: Mids were just slightly on the lush side, but certainly in no way did they sound unnatural. There was an incredibly high degree of midrange transparency on tap here. Kate Pierson and Cindy Wilson’s vocals on “Topaz” were mesmerizingly clean, and beautiful. The guitars on “Cosmic Thing” were crunchy, but with great nuance. The fi.Quest is a very impressive performer here.

*Bass:* A+: Bass was weighty, tight, punchy, and deep, and very well defined. I never wanted or needed the bass boost, although it is quite subtle and might be very useful for some headphones. There has not been a portable amp that has surpassed it in this regard. The bass lines in “Topaz” from the new Audio Fidelity remaster of the B-52’s “Cosmic Thing” was delivered in full measure, and it really propels that song. So was the bass and kick-drum combo from the title track of “Cosmic Egg” by Wolfmother – driving and propelling, but not in any way bloated or overbearing.
   
*Neutrality:* A: The very slight departures from neutral, the very slightly lush mids and the very slight degree to which the treble was laid back are all a very good way to go if you’re going to depart from neutral, IMO. And of course you can change this somewhat by rolling op-amps.

*Soundstaging:* A-: Soundstaging was the one area where I thought the fi.Quest was a bit short of the best. It was neither the deepest or widest I have heard. It’s well defined, and convincing enough, but compared to the very best, it is a little “middle of the head”. Very good, but not outstanding.
   
*Transparency:* A+: Here again the fi.Quest also was excellent – recordings where this is critical, like Muddy Waters “Folk Singer”, were a delight. There was no grain, etch, veil, or any other anomaly in the way of the music.
   
   
  Should the fi.Quest even be in this list? It’s up there in size with the Lisa III, which I couldn’t fully consider a “portable” amp. Similarly, I would never use the fi.Quest as a portable amp myself, and as good as it is, I am not going to stop using my tube amps and use the fi.Quest. But if you want a great amp to shuttle back and forth between home and office, more than one to use on the train, then the fi.Quest should be on your very short list. The sound is absolutely outstanding. I know the fi.Quest is quite large, and so calling it a portable is a bit of a stretch. But the sonics it delivers are really astounding, and put it up there at the very pinnacle of battery powered amps of any kind, let alone truly portable ones. Very impressive amp.

  
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   
   
*Conclusions (5-6-10)*

 OK, so now it’s now 53 amps! *NOTE: I have decided to change the way the rankings work*. I have created LEVELS, rather than individual ranks. As before, note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.

 Level 1:
   
  Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional
  MST Fi.Quest, @ $450
  Ray Samuels Audio The Protector (in BALANCED mode only), @ $475

 Level 2:
   
  Qables iQube @ $605.00
 RSA Mustang P-51 (review here) @ $375.00
 Larocco Audio Pocket Reference II mk 2 (availability unknown - PLEASE read entire review)

 Level 3:
   
  Headamp Pico @ $349.00
 Meier Audio 2MOVE (and the older MOVE) (3MOVE @ $270.00)
 iBasso Audio D4 Mamba @ $219 (Review Here )
 RSA SR71 @ $395.00 (original SR71, not the SR71A)
 RSA The Predator @ $475.00
 RSA The Hornet “M” @ $370.00

 Level 4:
   
  Decware Zenhead @ $295.00
 Xenos 1HA-EPC (discontinued)
 RSA Tomahawk @ $295.00
 Meier Audio XXS / Headsix @ $166.00/187.00
   
  Level 5:

 TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid @ $459.00
 iBasso D3 Python $219.00 (review here)
 Xin Reference @ $279.99
 Meier Audio Porta Corda III (discontinued)
 Xin SuperMicro IV (current version auditioned 1/22/08) @ $199.99
   
  Level 6:

 ALO Double Mini3 (review here) @ $235.00
 Headamp AE-2 @ $349.00
 Graham Slee Voyager @ $233.00 + S&H from UK
 Linearrosa W3 @ $299 (review here )
 Leckerton Audio UHA-6S @ $309 (review Here )
 iBasso D2 Boa $165.00 (review here)
 Go-Vibe 7
 Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
   
  Level 7:

 Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
 iBasso T3 @ $119.00 (Review here)
 Portaphile V2^2 @ $275.00
 Linearrosa W1 (review here )
 mSeed Spirit (discontinued)
 Mini-Box E @ $229.00
 Storm 3 (NOT B3) (review here)
 Storm Little-2 (review here)
   
  Level 7:

 Storm B4
 Visely HEA-4 @ $149.00 (Review here)
 iBasso P-1 (discontinued)
 Visely HEA- 1 @ $135.00
  Microshar uAmp107 @ $135.00
 Practical Devices XM4 @ $135.00
 C&C XO @ $209.00
   
  Level 8:
   

 Music Max LT1 $99 (Review here)
 iBasso T2 (T4@ $109.00)
 NuForce $99 (review here)
 Go-Vibe 6 (discontinued)
 Xtra X-1 Pro @ $104.00
 Xenos 0HA-REP (discontinued)
  iBasso T1 (discontinued)
 Xtra X-1 (discontinued)
 C&C Box V2
 Storm B3
 Little Dot Micro+ (discontinued)

 I apologize in advance if you liked the old ranking system better, but as this review has gone on over time, and as it has grown, I think this is a better approach.  As always, this is JUST MY OPINION, but I hope it has been helpful.


----------



## gilency

Very enjoyable and useful review, as always. I have not invested a lot on portables since I value the convenience of portability. When I decide to upgrade, the P51 sounds like a good choice given its small size..
  Would love to see the Headstage Arrow and TTVJ Slim in your list.


----------



## sachu

Honestly don't see how anyone can review err what was it 53 amps lol as an ongoing review over a period of more than 2 years. The amount of variables to make any kind of classification system here is stagerring and completely non-sensical.
   
   I can see the point in perhaps reviewing a product by itself or atmost comparing it to one or two other competitors at hand, but to rank them with stuff you heard nearing 3 years ago is worthy of raising both my eyebrows and go WTH!!

   
   
  Edit: And yes, i did read your "review methodology" on post #8. I still think you are better off breaking it up into separate reviews for each product rather than clubbing/ranking them here like this.
   
  All IMHO of course.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> Would love to see the Headstage Arrow and TTVJ Slim in your list.


 
   
   
  x2


----------



## Sonic 748i

Skylab, any chance you can get a ALO Rx?


----------



## qusp

Hey Skylab, nice review of the FiQ mate, if opamps have a bearing on any thing its soundstage, My amp, after some pretty serious remodelling, (which is what this amp is about) has one of the most convincing out of the head soundstages I have heard from a portable, in fact on any level. i'm using stacked buf634 plus discrete diamond buffers stacked on top of that, or rather on the other side of the PCB and AD797, with a notable improvement in transparency from using TX2575 naked resistors for the buffer wideband mode and the amp space is alive. too right on the bass! I find myself using it more than the lisa these days and especialy with IEMs, because the low gain setting works wonders with them.
  also to clear a couple of things up, the amp has an 18 volt battery or rather a +/-9vdc bipolar center tapped battery, the amp is only running on 24 volts on the high power AC setting when using gthe pretty serious transformer based wall wart (which I have also gone to town on) and the charge and isolated setting allows you to charge the battery, but be running on DC from the regulator
   
  1 as running with 24V supply from PSU, and ALSO charging with 16.8V to battery.
  2 as running with 24V supply from PSU, and NOT charging to battery.
 In other words, when choosing 2, orange LED will never light.
 3 as running with 16.8V supply via regulator, and ALSO charging to battery.
 When choosing 3, Orange LED will never die. 
   
  you think you saw power, try setting the switch for output current ratio to 1:5:5 mode  normal is 1:1:1 so the opamp/top side buffer sockets/bottom side buffer sockets are all sharing the load equally, which provides lower noise and better stabilty, but in the other mode the opamp is only 1/11th of the output currents!! hehe serious grunt
   
  I also love this amp with HD600, as I have said here before, its close to as good as I have heard them on any amp, when using my buffalo as source. its the only portable including lisa, where I have felt they truly opened up. the OPA827 works very well for low noise, power and fantastic SS too. I havent used the LT parts you mention in anything but a regulator. probably wise you didnt attempt to cover the various opamp choices, as they are to numerous; this amp has enough current to drive pretty much any OPAMP you choose to try


----------



## Skylab

Hi Qusp, thanks for the clarifications and information - I will update my review a little later today.  I do find that it's tough to review every op-amp choice, and the amp sounded so good with the Liner Tech op-amps, which is what Ryuzoh chose to send in it, that I didn't want to invest a whole bunch of time in op-amp rolling, as it makes for a very long process 
   
  @ the Headstage and ALO amps - not likely these will be coming.  Next up is the Meier StepDance.


----------



## swayne

Ooh. Stepdance.
   
  I'd like to see where you rank that one.
   
  Pity about the delay though.


----------



## qusp

hey Skylab, sorry if it seemed like I was criticizing your review process mate, not at all, i'm impressed you took it on at all because of that issue. I think choosing one opamp and one opamp only to review was your best option, as if you started rolling you wouldnt have been able to stop anyway  I realize I wasnt very clear above, its an 18v battery, but the output current (portable) is set to 16.8 when full on the stock unit. which is about the same as the protector I gather; but when on the included fairly decent AC power supply its 24v. then you have all the internal switches, its a shapeshifter for sure, it is what you want it to be....except maybe slim


----------



## Skylab

No worries qusp, I thought your post was excellent and helpful!


----------



## Sonic 748i

Skylab, would you rate the P-51 Mustang's midrange performance above the Protector? Since the P-51 got a "A++" score in it's midrange and the Protector got a "A+".


----------



## Skylab

I think they are actually quite similar in Midrange, which is to say, outstanding.  But the Protector's mids I did find to be just a hair more forward than the Mustang, and that accounts for the difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think they are actually quite similar in Midrange, which is to say, outstanding.  But the Protector's mids I did find to be just a hair more forward than the Mustang, and that accounts for the difference.


 

 I agree with that, but I might say it's a couple of hairs more and not just one.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I agree with that, but I might say it's a couple of hairs more and not just one.


 

 Right - probably several hairs


----------



## gameboy115

Thanks for sharing


----------



## brendon

Two thumbs up to the tier ranking.


----------



## LevA

Skylab, 
   
  Not sure if you have already stated somewhere on the thread but when you are doing the testing what do you feed the amps with? Do you use computer + Dac or through ipod+lod or another set up? any details of what parts and maker would be helpful.
  Also in regards to ZEN and TTVJ Portable Hybrid, which did you find had closer sound sig. to a tube amp?
   
  thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





brendon said:


> Two thumbs up to the tier ranking.


 

 Hah! I think started it by saying that I put amps into three tiers - top tier, middle and bottom tier.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Although when I looked at my list of amps in each tier I found that I needed to put another one between middle and bottom tier. I just never got around to removing my individual rankings in my own review. Here is what I thought of the portable amps that I've reviewed if I were to put them into tiers, and why.
   
  In the *top tier* I put the amps that seem to offer the full rich and refined sound that you might expect from a similar desktop amp, but in a smaller power class.  They seem to have very few areas where the sound is noticeably colored or lacking, with above average transparency/detail, but not always very neutral.  They especially have a better ability to put me right there in the performance venue, where instruments and singers seem to better take up physical space with real dimensions.  This includes amps such as the RSA Predator, Protector, P-51, Headamp Pico, Meier 3MOVE and Stepdance (prototype), iBasso D4 and D10, TTVJ portable Millett, and Practical Devices XM5 (or opamp rolled D2 Viper).  These are all so good that it would be easy to find a number of people where they all have a different 1st place pick (although with IEM the TTVJ would fall off this tier).
   
  In the *second tier* I had put amps that are nice but maybe don't have the full weight of a realistic reproduction. Or, they might have sacrifices in soundstage depth or width, or in micro-detail.  Some good sounding amps still fit in this category, which are just not quite up to the task of moving into the top tier.  This includes the RSA Tomahawk, Meier Headsix, Headstage Lyrix, iBasso D3 and T3 (T4 sits on the fence now that T3 is better), Penguin Amp Caffeine Pro, opamp rolled iBasso D1, and more.  Certainly these are not all tied with each other, nor identical sounding.
   
  In the *third tier* they may compromises in one or more areas of their sound signature, such as the iBasso D2 with it's upper-bass hump and depressed upper mids in relation to bass and treble, or Nuforce Icon Mobine with it's forward mids and highs, and Vivid V1 for it's upper midrange etch or aggressiveness with some headphones.  This affects their transparency or neutrality, and thus their believability.  However, if you happened to match these amps with just the right headphones where the colorations make up for the headphone's flaws, then all of a sudden the synergy made for great combinations.  Some examples would be pairing the Vivid V1 with HD600 for great energy and impact but little sense of veil, or the mating the Denon D2000 with the Nuforce and losing the recessed mids while getting great bass control, or combining the Grado RS-1 with the iBasso D2 for a warm punchy sparkly spacious experience.  If you switched around these phones with the other amps, then the results could be quite different.  Then you'd find the V1 made the RS-1 too grating, or the Nuforce couldn't power the HD600, or the D2 could sometimes make the D2000 boomy and recessed.  This is why I think it's so important to try many different headphones and IEM in doing amp reviews.
   
  At one point I was combining the second and third tier into one "middle tier".  What I regret is that in my big DAC/amp review I ranked these third tier amps higher than the Lyrix or D1 because their DACs were more detailed, affecting the overall presentation.  But the Lyrix as an amp alone is on par with the Tomahawk and Headsix in tier two.  And the D1 with upgraded opamps was ranked as low as the Lyrix due to it's USB performance, although it's optical DAC was noticeably better.  But in that review I was comparing USB DACs only, and I had to keep it "apples to apples" comparisons.  And the Nuforce was ranked higher as a DAC/amp than if it were considered as amp alone, because via USB DAC the Nuforce was more neutral sounding than via analog input.
   
  In the *bottom tier* I include amps that can sound anywhere from poor to decent, but don't stand out as a value or are not worth considering.  This might include the boostaroo and Fiio E3, while the E5 straddles the fence.  I have tended to stay away from these amps in the first place, and thus my list is not very big here.  My minimum standard for an amp is that it cannot sound worse or even the same as the headphone out of the iPod that is driving it, and must be a clear upgrade via LOD to recommend it.  To me the E5 sounded about as detailed and spacious as an iPod Nano, but with a warmer tint to the sound and a little extra power.  That E5 was used in a review of budget RE-2 vs NE-7M earphones, which may affect my impressions of it since they are not the most resolving IEM out there. 
   
  Anyway, I hope this helps others who have read this review thread and/or my much smaller one.


----------



## brendon

^^ Nicely done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You have heard quite a few portable amps yourself.
   
  I see that you have reviewed many OPAMP rollable amps. How exactly do you take into account which combination to use for reviewing. Each OPAMP has its own signature and its even worse when you have amps like the P3+ which has a 3ch/4ch configuration. So there are practically endless possibilities in OPAMP rolling. I can get both a thin and bright soung sig or even a dark and bassy sound. Basically its almost like having 2 - 3 different amps altogether.
   
  Also on a side note, any chance of adding to your DAC/AMP comparison ?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





leva said:


> Skylab,
> 
> Not sure if you have already stated somewhere on the thread but when you are doing the testing what do you feed the amps with? Do you use computer + Dac or through ipod+lod or another set up? any details of what parts and maker would be helpful.
> Also in regards to ZEN and TTVJ Portable Hybrid, which did you find had closer sound sig. to a tube amp?
> ...


 

 That is covered in Port #8.
   
  W/r/t the Zen and TTVJ, there is no one single "tube amp" sound - but the TTVJ was "lusher" than the Zen, if that helps.

  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Hah! I think started it by saying that I put amps into three tiers - top tier, middle and bottom tier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Indeed - this was a helpful concept in terms of getting away from my prior system - thanks


----------



## LevA

Thanks Skylab.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





brendon said:


> ^^ Nicely done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 With the iBasso D1 opamp rolling I tried everything I could get my hands on, and then I had left over opamps for trying in the D2 Viper and D10 or D4 (also found AD797 worked great in a SuperMacro III which I sold and would put in 2nd tier but forgot I'd had it for a while).  
   
  However, with the D4 and D10 I let HiFlight pave the way in testing first, and then I tried his favorites or made his favorites into different combos to try.  With HiFlight's "topkits" I can get the D10 to sound close to a stock D4, and I can get the stock D4 to sound like a P-51 clone (meaning I can't consistently pick which is which in blind testing).  Once I find a good opamp combo I tend to leave it the way it is, and my D10 and D4 both still have the final HiFlight topkit installed.  He is a great source for opamp rolling and parts.
   
  In addition to my portable DAC amp comparison, I have also reviewed some small desktop DAC/amps and put them in their own threads (Carat-Topaz, uDAC, HDP, DACport).  But I'm actually kinda tired of doing reviews and took a short break, but now I need to do the HE-5LE and Luxman P1u, plus a mini-review of Protector and Pico Slim which I've already posted impressions of, and Brainwavz M2, RW Audio AMP1, and maybe some more LOD.  I don't like feeling overwhelmed by reviews and tend to only review gear that I am interested in or like, to save time and energy - hence the tendency toward a positive slant in several of my reviews.


----------



## MrProggie

I am almost new here and this is my first post. I appreciate Skylab's job of reviewing and rating these amps and putting them in "leagues".
  I bought my first portable headphone amp 2 - 3 months ago, a FiiO E5 which fast became obsolete after buying a Sennheiser HD650.
  Now I own a CMOY amp which was costing $US 50 including shipping on Ebay. I am pretty pleased with it and it was worth the upgrade.
   
  I am surprised by the amount of micro details which is revealed by the combination of HD650 and the CMOY when playing FLAC tracks: 
  Noise, breathing sounds and mixing sounds made during the recording in the studio becomes very revealing on some tracks. 
   
  I understand using an amp costing $US 50 with HD650 is a waste since it will not bring out the best in the headphones.
  I am already looking for a better replacement amp for the CMOY, but it will have to wait another 3-6 months.
  Perhaps it will be The Protector or The P-51 or something else.
   
  I'll be following Skylab and others reviewers in the next months.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote: 





mrproggie said:


> I am almost new here and this is my first post. I appreciate Skylab's job of reviewing and rating these amps and putting them in "leagues".
> I bought my first portable headphone amp 2 - 3 months ago, a FiiO E5 which fast became obsolete after buying a Sennheiser HD650.
> Now I own a CMOY amp which was costing $US 50 including shipping on Ebay. I am pretty pleased with it and it was worth the upgrade.
> 
> ...


 

 The RSA Protector seems to be your choice between the two.


----------



## brendon

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> With the iBasso D1 opamp rolling I tried everything I could get my hands on, and then I had left over opamps for trying in the D2 Viper and D10 or D4 (also found AD797 worked great in a SuperMacro III which I sold and would put in 2nd tier but forgot I'd had it for a while).
> 
> However, with the D4 and D10 I let HiFlight pave the way in testing first, and then I tried his favorites or made his favorites into different combos to try.  With HiFlight's "topkits" I can get the D10 to sound close to a stock D4, and I can get the stock D4 to sound like a P-51 clone (meaning I can't consistently pick which is which in blind testing).  Once I find a good opamp combo I tend to leave it the way it is, and my D10 and D4 both still have the final HiFlight topkit installed.  He is a great source for opamp rolling and parts.
> 
> In addition to my portable DAC amp comparison, I have also reviewed some small desktop DAC/amps and put them in their own threads (Carat-Topaz, uDAC, HDP, DACport).  But I'm actually kinda tired of doing reviews and took a short break, but now I need to do the HE-5LE and Luxman P1u, plus a mini-review of Protector and Pico Slim which I've already posted impressions of, and Brainwavz M2, RW Audio AMP1, and maybe some more LOD.  I don't like feeling overwhelmed by reviews and tend to only review gear that I am interested in or like, to save time and energy - hence the tendency toward a positive slant in several of my reviews.


 
   
  Seconded ! I too have got the Topkit from HiFlight for my P3+ and I have not been happier.


----------



## MrProggie

Quote:


sonic 748i said:


> The RSA Protector seems to be your choice between the two.


   
   
  If money is no object the Protector will be my first choice. Then I will buy a balanced silver cable  from Moon Audio to use with it at the same time. There's a big chance I will find a cheaper amp in the 200-250 US dollar bracket before that happens. Raging Moose is interesting in that price bracket. In the mean time iBasso is also working on a balanced amp. So I am following the news in the portable headphone amp market with argus eyes.
   
  My goal when working to reach audio nirvana is as high resolution as possible and neutral sound. When it sounds like you're in the studio when they're recording and you hear all sounds made,  intentional and unintentional, then we're on our way. 
   
  I've heard about the Sennheiser veil, but on the HD650 it doesn't bother me.


----------



## Insomnymous

Awesome review, helps a newbie like me out a lot!


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





> I've heard about the Sennheiser veil, but on the HD650 it doesn't bother me.


 
  That's because it's a myth perpetrated by people who prefer upper/mid-range accentuation in their headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Oh I forgot.....IMHO


----------



## productred

Anyone aware whether the iQube utilizes an opamp and if so which one? Can't find any info on that anywhere.......thx~


----------



## Skylab

The iQube is a class-D amp, so no, not op-amp based.


----------



## Hellenback

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Hah! I think started it by saying that I put amps into three tiers - top tier, middle and bottom tier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry to chop up your post but these "quoted post" replies can get pretty bulky.
   
  As you took the opportunity to experiment with and rate the Lyrix, you really should try to get a hold of an Arrow HE and a Wolfson WM8740 line-dac from Headstage. I think you'd find the Arrow is every bit as good as any of the top tier amps and IMO better than some. The Wolfson chip has transformed their line-dac (even _with_ the standard leads) & it's performance is stellar regardless of it's low price.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hellenback said:


> Sorry to chop up your post but these "quoted post" replies can get pretty bulky.
> 
> As you took the opportunity to experiment with and rate the Lyrix, you really should try to get a hold of an Arrow HE and a Wolfson WM8740 line-dac from Headstage. I think you'd find the Arrow is every bit as good as any of the top tier amps and IMO better than some. The Wolfson chip has transformed their line-dac (even _with_ the standard leads) & it's performance is stellar regardless of it's low price.


 

 Would love to see this review as well.


----------



## p0w3rL3s5

Sorry, i'm very new to the audio world, but i'm just curious how well would the P-51 Mustang drives a Shure SE530? Will there be the hiss and stuff?


----------



## Skylab

It should drive the 530's very, very well.  You could use the low-gain mode of the P-51 to ensure no hiss.


----------



## dallan

Can't wait for Brad to send you the L3, new mini Lisa project over there at Triad Skylab.  Hope it gives a more compact solution to high end portable amps.  Lisa blows away my Pico which is still very good, but the size issue and the RCA only out is rough to deal with sometimes.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, looking forward to that as well


----------



## swbf2cheater

Cmoy BB 2.02 needs to be added


----------



## deniall83

I would love if you could do a review of the Ortofon Hd-Q7 amp as there doesn't seem to be any out there.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Cmoy BB 2.02 needs to be added


 

 Is it readily available commercially somewhere?

  
  Quote: 





deniall83 said:


> I would love if you could do a review of the Ortofon Hd-Q7 amp as there doesn't seem to be any out there.


 

 While the Hd-Q7 is quite small, it would have to be battery-operated to be included here, which it does not appear to be.


----------



## cooperpwc

Indeed the "Bass Boost cMoy v2.02 Headphone Amplifier" is commercially available for $65 here. (I have never hear it though.)


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Coop.  I rarely buy amps to review, but $65 isn't much...


----------



## dahan

Great review Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!

 I will be adding the Nuforce uDAC to this survey shortly.


----------



## cedar80

Big thanks to Skylab for this impressive roundup! I'm lurking for quite a long time and I've just found this awesome and so useful thread. Can't believe I didn't find it earlier!..
   
  I was wondering, are you planning to add the ALO Rx and the TTVJ slim? They're very well regarded and I (as many other headfiers for sure) would be very interested to see how they compete with the best ones you reviewed.
   
  Another contender would be the new iBasso PB1 Toucan (which seems to be a direct competitor to the RSA Protector), I don't want to ask too much but are you considering to add it?
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!  I actually do have tentative plans to review the TTVJ Slim.


----------



## cooperpwc

That's good news. Headphonia thought it better than the TTVJ Millet portable (which they also liked). I will be curious as to what you think.


----------



## cedar80

Great news, thanks!


----------



## JosephKim

It would be cool if you gave an overall grade/rating for each amp. Great thread!


----------



## konstantanol

how about ordnance .22 and ordnance .25 ?


----------



## faisal2003456

Thanks Skylab. I finally picked an amp thanks to you, the Linearossa W1. Hoping they work good with orchestra. They also come with a LOD, yay! Now to pick some $100 headphones...


----------



## dfkt

Better get some efficient phones... the W1 is actually a volume limiter, not an amplifier - it makes any player quieter. Also make sure they're higher impedance, the W1 severely rolls off the bass with low impedance phones.


----------



## faisal2003456

I'm going to be using a LOD with them. Would that still limit the volume? What do you consider "high impedance"? 60 ohms or 200+ ohms. Nothing in my price range is above 65 ohms. If you know a pair at around 150 bucks or less, could you please tell me. If not do you think i should just get an iBasso T3. In the review Skylab said the W1 works better as an amp than the T3. Could you please help me? FYI, I am a complete noob. I have never had an amp and my first and only pair of headphones were $15 Altec Lansing AHP524s and the only "IEMs" (if you could call them that) were a $10 pair from FRY'S electronics.


----------



## dfkt

Headphones are very important for sound reproduction, so is a decent MP3 player - and amp however is a very minor thing to worry about. It's always a bad idea buying an amp, and then getting headphones after that. An amp won't make anything sound magically "better" - it might or might not fix minor things in the sound (depending on player or phone), but never gives a "huge" difference. Neither does a line-out function - actually some players sound worse over line-out than they do over their headphone-out (Sony A845, Cowon X5, for example).
   
  Since you seem to be just starting in this hobby, my suggestion is: get a good MP3 player and a good pair of phones/IEMs - and worry about the negligible details later. Spending the additional ~$100 an amp costs for a better, upgraded headphone may give you much more enjoyment than buying a lower quality phone and an amp.
   
  By the way, there's a link in my signature below, under "my gear and reviews", to my opinion about the W1, if you like to read that.


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





dfkt said:


> Headphones are very important for sound reproduction, so is a decent MP3 player - and amp however is a very minor thing to worry about. It's always a bad idea buying an amp, and then getting headphones after that. An amp won't make anything sound magically "better" - it might or might not fix minor things in the sound (depending on player or phone), but never gives a "huge" difference. Neither does a line-out function - actually some players sound worse over line-out than they do over their headphone-out (Sony A845, Cowon X5, for example).
> 
> Since you seem to be just starting in this hobby, my suggestion is: get a good MP3 player and a good pair of phones/IEMs - and worry about the negligible details later. Spending the additional ~$100 an amp costs for a better, upgraded headphone may give you much more enjoyment than buying a lower quality phone and an amp.
> 
> By the way, there's a link in my signature below, under "my gear and reviews", to my opinion about the W1, if you like to read that.


 

 x2, choose your 'phones first.


----------



## faisal2003456

The fact is I have a 160gb iPod with a broken 3.5mm headphone jack. I have no choice, but to buy an amp and use it through the line-out. In-fact, it would be cheaper for me to buy a $200 amp rather than a new mp3 player. It's a disaster trying to find headphones. There are TOO MANY in the 100-150 dollar price range. I've searched and I've searched. For almost any application everyone suggests Alessandro MS-1s. Problem is they have no soundstage and I listen to ALOT of orchestra. It has been a nightmare picking headphones. No wonder everyone has more than one pair. The biggest obstacle is probably that I listen to orchestra and hip-hop mainly and they require totally different style of headphones. I'm looking for something in-between. I'm considering Shure SRH440s or ATH-M50s, although the MS1s are more convenient since I live overseas. The forums are a mixed bag. After looking through your inventory though, you seem like a fan of IEMs so I won't bother you about which headphones I should get. I'm gonna have another go at the audio forums. I can see that you hate the W1 ALOT from your review. Any user who has a ton of headphone reviews that I should look for?


----------



## dfkt

Well, in that case, the $20 FiiO E5 would already be a much better performing amp than the W1, also more portable.


----------



## faisal2003456

I was considering the E7, then a FiiO rep went on the forums here and explained how amp-wise it's very similar to the E5. Thanks for the help.


----------



## AVU

I see the Toucan quickly becoming the top price/performance winner on this list if someone gets one to review


----------



## doorhandle

Quote: 





avu said:


> I see the Toucan quickly becoming the top price/performance winner on this list if someone gets one to review


 

 I have the Toucan, though have no other portable headphone amp to compare it to, other than one of those cheap Bravo V2 hybrid tube amp things,  but in power and SQ it competes with this, and thats just using a single ended connection.
   
  Battery is great too, so for me it is a great, small & tidy little desktop amp. I would be very interested to see how it compares with other portable amps, esp. in SE only mode, hopefully Skylab can grab one to review soon.


----------



## AVU

Don't own either, but many who have heard both have been comparing it favorably to the Protector.  Since the Protector is currently the top of the list in *real* portable amps (of which Skylab correctly states that the fiQuest and Lisa don't really count), I'd expect we might have a new champion.


----------



## novacav

Skylab, do plan on reviewing the rsa sr-71b when it arrives? I'm dying to buy a protector or p-51, but the description of the sr-71b on ray's site really makes me want to wait too!


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





novacav said:


> Skylab, do plan on reviewing the rsa sr-71b when it arrives? I'm dying to buy a protector or p-51, but the description of the sr-71b on ray's site really makes me want to wait too!


 

 Wow - you just brought my attention to the SR-71b. It is nothing less than an epic speech written on the RSA website. It has to be good to live up to that.


----------



## puckshock

Just wanna thank Skylab for compiling this post, it's really helpful for the newbies 
   
  Keep up the spectacular work


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


rasmushorn said:


> Wow - you just brought my attention to the SR-71b. It is nothing less than an epic speech written on the RSA website. It has to be good to live up to that.


 
   
  It doesn't have to live up to that anymore than the Protector had to live up to the claim of a soundstage that wrapped all around your head. RSA are marketing geniuses. Seriously, they are very good - the best on Head-Fi.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> It doesn't have to live up to that anymore than the Protector had to live up to the claim of a soundstage that wrapped all around your head. RSA are marketing geniuses. Seriously, they are very good - the best on Head-Fi.


 

 Yeah - I have had the P-51 since it came and I am still loving it. I am sure 71b will lift the bar even further for portable devices. I am looking forward to read about it and hopefully listen to it at a meet soon. It really is exciting times in portable head-fi.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Quote:
> Â
> It doesn't have to live up to that anymore than the Protector had to live up to the claim of a soundstage that wrapped all around your head. RSA are marketing geniuses. Seriously, they are very good - the best on Head-Fi.


 

 I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that RSA's amps are genuinely some of the best.


----------



## Skylab

At the moment I have no plans to review the SR71b, but that could well change.  I have two other reviews to finish, one for the Meier Stepdance, and a DAC review, then I will see if Ray wants to loan me a SR71b for a spin...


----------



## cooperpwc

Skylab, I look forward to your Stepdance review.


----------



## radiohead7

Can this amp be used with a Cowan S9 ......I hear conflicting opinions about the line out vs headphone out.   Is this amp more bang for the buck than RSA because its is half the price of the P-51 mustang.


----------



## Skylab

Which amp were you referring to?


----------



## radiohead7

I was wonder if the ibasso toucan was more bang for the buck than a rsa p51 mustang and is any amp worth it for a cowan s9.


----------



## Skylab

OK, thanks.  I have no experience with either the Toucan, or the Cowan, so I cannot help.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote: 





skylab said:


> ........I have two other reviews to finish, one for the Meier Stepdance, and a *DAC review*, then I will see if Ray wants to loan me a SR71b for a spin...


 

 which DAC is that?


----------



## Skylab

The Yulong D100.


----------



## Mad Max

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Yulong D100.


----------



## Skylab

*REVIEW: Meier Audio Stepdance*

 Jan Meier was kind enough to send me an early production sample of his new Meier Stepdance portable amp.  The Stepdance is the first Meier Portable to use his “Balanced Ground” topology.  It’s designed as a performance-first portable amp, which means it has very few features (for example, Meier’s normal Crossfeed is omitted), and it also uses battery faster than his other amps, again with the goal of providing maximum sonic performance. In my opinion, this goal is achieved for sure.

*Info: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/*


*Build Quality*: A: Very attractive and sturdy chassis – same other Meier portables.  The amp is very well built, and looks nice.  I subtracted the “+” from the A because I am not fond of the Meier battery door, and I also don’t like the slight rounding of the chassis, as it makes mating with an iPod for portable use a little difficult.  But this is really picking nits.
   
*Treble:* A+: The treble is smooth, delicate, extended and transparent.  Compared favorably to the very extended but smooth treble of the Qables iQube, and slightly bettered the RSA P51 Mustang.  Small little nuances were registered cleanly, but there was nothing at all aggressive about the highs.  Cymbals are rendered with a smoothness and naturalness that belies the level of extension and detail that is also very much in evidence.

*Midrange: A+:* Superbly open, transparent, and clean sounding.  The mids were smooth and enjoyable, if just very slightly warm, although there were times I thought I heard a little extra warmth, and times I felt they were nothing short of completely neutral.  In any case the mids were very seductive and natural sounding for sure.  Outstanding for a portable.  Female vocals like Alison Krauss’s on “It Doesn’t Matter” sound terrific without being artificial in any way. 

*Bass: A+:* Full, punchy, and well defined. As deep as you could hope to get from a portable amp – and impressively so at that.  The very deep bass at the end of Porcupine Tree’s “Russia On Ice” was reproduced in full measure.  Phil Lesh’s “Phil Bomb’s” from the recent “Crimson, White, and Indigo” release were also very meaty, but with outstanding control and definition.  The punchy bass from the MFSL remaster of REM’s “Murmer” was very satisfying, as it was from “Open Car” from Porcupine Tree’s “Arriving Somewhere” live release.
   
*Neutrality: A+:* The overall sound is unfailingly neutral and natural.  Nothing sticks out at all.  It’s a little less dry than the iQube, and a little less plump than the P51 Mustang – right down the middle.  That’s a good place to be.  To a degree I am not used to in a portable, the StepDance really just provides power, and otherwise gets out of the way completely.  The difference between the iPad’s line out and the line out of the NuForce uDAC were easily discernable.

*Soundstaging: A+:* Great depth and width both, and a very palpable, well defined image. Truly excellent performance here.   Even without the hallmark Meier Crossfeed, I felt the performance in imaging was at the very top of the class.  Nice holographic presentation of Alison Krauss and Union Station’s live recordings.  The sense of all acoustics during the a-capella “Down In The River To Pray” was so startling that I had to pause the recording to make sure I was really hearing that and not some other sound!  Sure enough, there it was.  Impressive.

*Transparency: A+: * Generally a Meier strength, and very much so here as well.  I found no hint of grain or messiness.  Just clean, clear, and open sound.  This makes the Stepdance really seem to provide a higher level of performance than I have come to expect from portable amps. 

 So do I think the Stepdance achieves its goal of maximum performance from a Portable?  In spades.  The Stepdance is my new reference Portable Headphone Amp, against which the others will be judged.  It sets the bar very high in what can be done in a headphone amp, and rather than put money into features that many users do not want or need, it puts all the emphasis on sonics.  This is a laudable direction.  Are there trade-offs?  Sure.  It ate through a 9V LITHIUM battery in about a week of heavy use.  If you want a battery-sipper, this isn’t it.  While not huge, it’s far from the smallest and lightest portable amp I’ve ever seen.   But combined with the iPad and the NuForce uDAC (via the uDAC’s RCA outs), the sound from a transportable rig was just unbelievably satisfying. 
   
   
  The Stepdance is slated to cost $350 USD (270 Euro outside the EU; 305 Euro in the EU).  At that price, and given its performance level, I think the Stepdance also sets the current bar on price/performance ratio. When I compared it to other top amps I currently own, the iQube sounds slightly dry compared to the Stepdance.  Aside from that, the amps are highly competitive - with the iQube being quite a bit larger, but offering (in the V2) a USB DAC option, which the Stepdance does not.  The RSA P51 Mustang is slightly lusher, and a wee bit forward in the mids.  Again, otherwise competitive, although I think the Stepdance is a little more dynamic and a little more transparent, but these are subtle.  The P51 does has the advantage of being smaller.
   
  All three of these amps are outstanding.  I would chose them based on the partnering headphones. The P51 works best with the slightly bright t50p, although I very much enjoy the t50p via the Stepdance as well.  The Stepdance was best with the Senn PXC350 and the W1000X, and also did the best job of several of my high-end headphones that I wouldn;t really expect a portable amp to drive.
   
  The Stepdance now resides in the top "Level 1" in my rankings: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-37-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared#post_2585634


----------



## wuwhere

Nice. Is this Stepdance unit a pre-production? Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, as stated, it is an early-production unit.  Production has begun, and availability is in a few weeks, according to Meier.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, as stated, it is an early-production unit.  Production has begun, and availability is in a few weeks, according to Meier.


 

 Thanks Sky. At $229, can the iBasso Toucan raise the bar even higher on price/performance?


----------



## Jalo

What about its ability to drive various headphones including iems. I know you are not an iem guy, but a great deal of headfiers on this forum use JH13/16, does it produces hisses on iems? What about difficulty phones like HD600/650 line? What HP did you use? Thanks


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Thanks Sky. At $229, can the iBasso Toucan raise the bar even higher on price/performance?


 


 I don't know.  iBasso hasn't sent me a review loaner in a long time (my last iBasso reviews were done with HeadphoneAddict's review samples), and so I have not heard the Toucan.
  
  Quote: 





jalo said:


> What about its ability to drive various headphones including iems. I know you are not an iem guy, but a great deal of headfiers on this forum use JH13/16, does it produces hisses on iems? What about difficulty phones like HD600/650 line? What HP did you use? Thanks


 

 I used the Beyer t50p, the Sennheiser PXC-350, and the AT W1000X for this review.  Unfortunately, I do not own _any_ IEM's, so I cannot help with that.  I did try the Stepdance with the 600 ohm Beyer T1, and it did a remarkably good job with them, considering it's a battery powered portable - slightly better than my reference portables.


----------



## kostalex

Skylab, did you commented t50p anywhere at head-fi? I am very interested to know your opinion on these cans.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I have commented extensively here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/479768/beyer-t50p-beyerdynamic-announces-the-t50p-portable-tesla-headphones/


----------



## dfkt

Thanks for the review, Skylab. Do you find the 32 volume steps to be sufficient? Sounds a little rough to me - especially for people listening at very quiet volume levels. For an average dynamic range of ~90dB that would mean one step is ~2.8dB.


----------



## Skylab

I did not find it to be a problem, no.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Skylab,
   
  Were you able to try the Stepdance with the HE-5LE? They seem to be a difficult headphone to pair with a portable amp due to their power requirements. Stepdance up to the task?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Skylab, great review.  Thanks!
   
  When I had the two prototype Stepdances here for a quick listen a few months ago, one of them really struck a chord with me and would be a tier 1 amp for me as well.  When I spoke to Jan he agreed with me on which version should go into production, and it looks like it will be a hit.  I think it was actually a little more natural sounding than a balanced Protector which has a little coloration in the upper mids, although I still really like my balanced Protector for HD600, HE-5 and JH13Pro.  And it had loads of power for full size cans.
   
  I do wish it had the crossfeed, but when I do use my 3MOVE or Headfive I only use the crossfeed about 25% of the time anyway.  So, what hadphones did you use with the Stepdance, and did you try any IEM with it?


----------



## Skylab

@ Roscoeiii:  I did not try that pairing (too many headphones, too little time).  Many of you may not be aware that I use an SPL meter to do precise level-matching for all my comparisons, which takes quite a bit of effort, so I do not tend to try every amp with every headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  That said, since you asked, I will try to try that shortly.
   
  @ HA: Thanks Larry!  I felt the same way you did about the prototypes (and for clarity, the version I have now is not the prototype, but an early production unit).  I actually listed the headphones I used above - no IEM's, sorry - I don't own any


----------



## cooperpwc

Great review, Skylab. I can't wait to get mine!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Nice review as usual Skylab, I'm surprise that the new Stepdance can achive that level.
   
  also, have you ever compared any high level portable amp to some compact desktop amps like Crossroad Edge, Corda Swing or maybe Linearossa K3?.


----------



## GreatDane

Thanks for the Stepdance review Rob. I'll have a difficult time resisting this gem.


----------



## cooperpwc

----
   
  A nice touch is that Jan include free shipping anywhere in the world. (For someone like me living in Asia, it makes a big difference compared with products that I have bought from other vendors.)


----------



## Skylab

Thanks all! 
   
  @ Coop, thanks for the correction, I will fix. 
   
  @ The MiddleSky - I don't have any "affordable" desktop amps here at the moment.  The Stepdance, as good at it is, was no match for the Concerto


----------



## bikeboy999

I was loaned the Stepdance for a month a while back, and mostly use IEMs.  I have a set of TF10s and SF5s, and used both.  My son has a pair of Shure 210s (or something like that).  The happiest day of my summer was when Skylab said I could keep the Stepdance for another week.  The saddest day was when I had to return it.  As for Skylab's review, I agree and was blown away by the sound from this unit.  As for sound from the unit, I listened to female artists as the sound was so good I was doing something I never like to do, repeat a song (immediately).     Great review Skylab and thanks for letting have such an experience.
   
   
  B


----------



## flargosa

Rob,
   
  Thanks for the review.  Got a question related to battery play time.   Does the amp have a low current/high current mode?  Do you have some estimate as to how many hours the battery lasted?


----------



## Skylab

There are gain settings in the Stepdance, but I am not sure how they effect consumption.  And no, I have not really tried to estimate battery life exactly, no.


----------



## flargosa

Rob I have a suggestion, how about adding the name of the last amp you reviewed to the end of the thread title.  Maybe add "Latest amp reviewed:<amp name>"
   
  This thread is bumped up many times a week and it is harder for people to know if there is a new review or just the regular back and forth posting between members.  Adding the recently reviewed amp name in the title will give members a heads up on the most current amp reviewed.  Just a suggestion. Thanks for the review!


----------



## Skylab

That is a great suggestion!  Thanks.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks for the effort maintaining this list Skylab.
   
  Sounds interesting, I'm looking something in the middle between iQube (dry) and Mustang (heavy), should try this one day.


----------



## andrew3199

Skylab. Does the Stepdance have the option of being run off a walwart?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





andrew3199 said:


> Skylab. Does the Stepdance have the option of being run off a walwart?


 


  Indeed it does.


----------



## ztsen

Great review skylab!
   
  My portable excitement is back. What I can read from your review is too good to be true. I never scored such result in my exam before. lol.
   
  Hopefully local shop will have a demo unit to be audition soon.


----------



## HK_sends

My wallet is hiding in a corner and whimpering. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Must coax it out one more time...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Armaegis

Oh head-fi, bullying and extorting money from your wallet since 2001.


----------



## HK_sends

-HK sends


----------



## siess

Another very useful review Skylab.
   
  So what is balanced ground topology - is the stepdance a balanced amp or is it still SE?


----------



## Skylab

You can read extensively about balanced ground on the Meier website on the page for the Symphony amp. It's still an SE amp from a connection standpoint.


----------



## ztsen

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You can read extensively about balanced ground on the Meier website on the page for the Symphony amp. It's still an SE amp from a connection standpoint.


 


 So it is a SE physical connection but work like Balanced virtually?


----------



## Skylab

That is my basic understanding of the principle, yes, but I am not really qualified to discuss the merits of the design from a purely engineering perspective.  I just know I have very much liked the performance of Meier amps that employed it.


----------



## vkvedam

Hey Rob, thanks for the review. Quick question, Stepdance or Swing? Perhaps could it match Swing?


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately impossible to say without being able to compare directly.  Sorry!


----------



## 4khris

Hello Skylab,im new on this,i live in europe,I want thank you for your reviews,really a beautiful reading,just i received my E7 from fiio, but i always read,about others portable amps,after reading a lot,i have some pretenders for next updates in my rig,i want ask you,your opinion,well,the pretenders are,RSA Mustang P-51,RSA SR71,Qables iQube,Meier Audio Stepdance,im your opinion what of this are better to match whit beyer both 250Ω and 600Ω,i read you dont have any IEM so dont ask you about,maybe are better options iqube and meier because i live in europe,avoid taxes for import from RSA,thanks.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  sorry if dont write correctly,english is not my mattern language.Skylab,im new on this,i live in europe,I want thank you for your reviews,really a beautiful reading,just i received my E7 from fiio, but i always read,about others portable amps,after reading a lot,i have some pretenders for next updates in my rig,i want ask you,your opinion,well,the pretenders are,RSA Mustang P-51,RSA SR71,Qables iQube,Meier Audio Stepdance,im your opinion what of this are better to match whit beyer both 250Ω and 600Ω,i read you dont have any IEM so dont ask you about,maybe are better options iqube and meier because i live in europe,avoid taxes for import from RSA,thanks.
  sorry if dont write correctly,english is not my mattern language.Hello Skylab,im new on this,i live in europe,I want thank you for your reviews,really a beautiful reading,just i received my E7 from fiio, but i always read,about others portable amps,after reading a lot,i have some pretenders for next updates in my rig,i want ask you,your opinion,well,the pretenders are,RSA Mustang P-51,RSA SR71,Qables iQube,Meier Audio Stepdance,im your opinion what of this are better to match whit beyer both 250Ω and 600Ω,i read you dont have any IEM so dont ask you about,maybe are better options iqube and meier because i live in europe,avoid taxes for import from RSA,thanks.
  sorry if dont write correctly,english is not my mattern language.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I would suggest either the Meier or the iQube, since you are in Europe.  I think the Stepdance is a bit of a better sonic match for Beyers.


----------



## 4khris

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I would suggest either the Meier or the iQube, since you are in Europe.  I think the Stepdance is a bit of a better sonic match for Beyers.


 

 Thanks Skylab


----------



## ztsen

Can Stepdance drive T1 well too?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I would suggest either the Meier or the iQube, since you are in Europe.  I think the Stepdance is a bit of a better sonic match for Beyers.


----------



## novacav

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> Wow - you just brought my attention to the SR-71b. It is nothing less than an epic speech written on the RSA website. It has to be good to live up to that.


 
  It's a very epic speech - i love ray's products but seeing how expensive the protector is, the sr71b could be over $500. I'd be hard pressed to buy one unless it's head and shoulder's above the toucan, which some people seem to think beats out the protector for half the price


----------



## Skylab

ztsen said:


> Can Stepdance drive T1 well too?






 It does an admirable job for a portable, but still, the T1 really needs a good desktop amp.


----------



## travisg

Hello Skylab I ordered a Stepdance today how do you feel it compares to the Lisa 3


----------



## Skylab

I will get the new Lisa III "mini" to review soon and will be able to compare the two directly.


----------



## travisg

skylab said:


> I will get the new Lisa III "mini" to review soon and will be able to compare the two directly.






 Thanks that will be an awesome compare!


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I will get the new Lisa III "mini" to review soon and will be able to compare the two directly.


 

 i am seriously looking forward to  this one!    will you be a/b with lisa III?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I will A/B the Stepdance with the Lisa II Mini.


----------



## Captfantastic

Skylab,
   
  Just had to give you another thx for your review(s).  I also marvel that after 14,292 posts your Avatar's teeth remain so white!  This is yet another benefit of a great portable... you can brush your teeth and enjoy your music too.  ha
   
  Leaning toward the 3Move here.
   
  Capt


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It does an admirable job for a portable, but still, the T1 really needs a good desktop amp.


 

 Hey Rob,
  Have you ever heard the T1 powered by the Centrance DacPort?  Best portable solution for the T1 I've ever heard.  Superb sound!


----------



## Skylab

I haven't ever heard the DacPort. I was quite interested in it until I saw it would not work off the USB connection from my iPad. That's good to know it drives the T1 well though!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I haven't ever heard the DacPort. I was quite interested in it until I saw it would not work off the USB connection from my iPad. That's good to know it drives the T1 well though!


 
  Yeah, it's an amazing device.  It actually creates 18v rails from the 5v USB power, and it's biased class A to boot, so it gets good 'n' warm while running.  I haven't looked, but I would imagine the power consumption is up there, near the limits of USB spec.


----------



## Skylab

Right, which the iPad is definitely not capable of. But you've intrigued me!


----------



## beachgeek

Hi, How about looking at the Toucan, which is the only one within my price range, please?


----------



## Skylab

beachgeek said:


> Hi, How about looking at the Toucan, which is the only one within my price range, please?






 Hi - at this point I doubt that will happen. My last few requests for a review loaner from iBasso went unanswered, and I have no interest in buying a Toucan. Sorry.


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, shoot me a PM if interested. I could include it with the HLLY SMK-III. Cheers.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Miguel! Will do.


----------



## moodyrn

I would be looking forward to that. I'm in the market for a new balanced portable. I would love to see how this compares to the more expensive options. Right now looking at the specs, it seems to good to be true(I hope it is, that would be easier on my wallet). Hard to believe something so small could have that kind of performance at that price. You usually pay a premium for a decent sounding portable that still doesn't compete with the performance of a good desktop.


----------



## radiohead7

Which one is better the audio meier stepdance or the ibasso toucan. I heard good things about them both but there is a significant price difference between them.


----------



## travisg

I can only speak for the stepdance it is really powerful even in low mode the bass impact and control is incredible. Best I have heard and I have heard just about every hi- end portable amp.


----------



## Anaxilus

This sucks, it really sounds like the Stepdance might be perfect for my MD and M50 or anything for that matter.  If only it had the Arrow's form factor.  The Arrow should be a nice step up from my E5 anyway.


----------



## yeemanz

Hey Skylab, 

 Thank you for your great reviews, they really helped a lot in decided what amp to buy.
   
  Only got a 3MOVE recently, but now I'm tempted to purchase a Stepdance...oh dear!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





radiohead7 said:


> Which one is better the audio meier stepdance or the ibasso toucan. I heard good things about them both but there is a significant price difference between them.


 
   
  Quote: 





travisg said:


> I can only speak for the stepdance it is really powerful even in low mode the bass impact and control is incredible. Best I have heard and I have heard just about every hi- end portable amp.


 

 I haven't heard the Toucan either.  But when I had a couple of Stepdance prototypes here to evaluate and offer feedback, I thought the sound, timbre, tone, frequency response was a little better than my RSA protector balanced or single ended.  The soundstage was pretty close as well but not quite, but with HD800 the Stepdance had noticeably better synergy.  I didn't really get to focus on power comparisons because the prototype ran only on 15v wall power, but it was fairly strong sounding and did well with hard to drive full size headphones.  The one and only thing I didn't like about the Stepdance was it was big like the 3MOVE and didn't have the crossfeed.  I can live without a DAC since I have several of those that run on USB power only.  It also compares favorably vs a $995 ALO Amphora.


----------



## kostalex

How does Stepdance compares to HDP?


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


			
				HeadphoneAddict said:
			
		

> I haven't heard the Toucan either.  But when I had a couple of Stepdance prototypes here to evaluate and offer feedback, I thought the sound, timbre, tone, frequency response was a little better than my RSA protector balanced or single ended.  The soundstage was pretty close as well but not quite, but with HD800 the Stepdance had noticeably better synergy.  I didn't really get to focus on power comparisons because the prototype ran only on 15v wall power, but it was fairly strong sounding and did well with hard to drive full size headphones.  The one and only thing I didn't like about the Stepdance was it was big like the 3MOVE and didn't have the crossfeed.  I can live without a DAC since I have several of those that run on USB power only.  It also compares favorably vs a $995 ALO Amphora.


 

 The synergy with the HD800 doesn't surprise me. I am early hours but the Stepdance is doing more with the DT880/600s than I had expected. The low end is weighty - that's not bad for driving 600 ohms off a 9 volt battery. It is too early in burn-in to say more though - except that the soundstage is opening up hour by hour.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> How does Stepdance compares to HDP?


 

 I thought these two amps were on a similar level in sound quality/performance, and both seemed less colored in the upper mids and more neutral than the Protector which is slightly more aggressive sounding (a benefit when using the balanced JH13Pro, HD600 and HE-5 LE, but not with the ES3X or HD800).  The sound coming from the Stepdance was a little sweeter than the HDP with my HD800, but the HDP was maybe a little more neutral and detailed.  The HDP definitely offers a little extra punch for the HD600 which can rattle your brains using the combo.  Both amps can sound a little strident with HD800 at high volumes, but at normal non-damaging listening volumes it's not an issue at all (more of an issue of the phones than amp).
   
  I would put the Stepdance prototype in the top tier of portable amps, while having more power than most other portable amps and less than many desktop amps.  In high current mode the 9v is doubled to 18v for better performance with high impedance phones.  I can't say that any of my other portable amps (other than Amphora) were better performers, although a few came very close.  If the Stepdance is too big for you as a portable and you don't mind a little less power, then you'd probably also be happy with the P-51 or opamp rolled iBasso D4 - these were my previous favorites among the amps I had at the time I tested the Stepdance (6 months ago).  But if absolute performance in a small portable package is the primary goal, the Stepdance would probably be my choice to drive full size phones. If I didn't need portable, and a 24/96 USB 24/192 SPDIF DAC was important, the HDP would be more versatile as a budget desktop amp.
   
  Another note - the Stepdance prototype's 32 step digital volume control wouldn't go down to zero, so with IEM it could not go to extremely low volumes if left in high gain mode; but I could still play the music as quietly as with the HDP before the HDP starts to get into channel imbalance.  I didn't try low gain mode, and there is also a low current mode as well. 
  
  Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Quote:
> 
> The synergy with the HD800 doesn't surprise me. I am early hours but the Stepdance is doing more with the DT880/600s than I had expected. The low end is weighty - that's not bad for driving 600 ohms off a 9 volt battery. It is too early in burn-in to say more though - except that the soundstage is opening up hour by hour.


 

 Even the 3MOVE with 9v could do a decent job with my 600 ohm AKG K240M, which was better than almost all my other portable amps with them.  I don't recall which ones, but only 1 or 2 out of 12 amps did almost as well as the 3MOVE.  I never tested the Stepdance with 600 ohm phones, but with the voltage doubling I suspect it should be better.


----------



## Jalo

Hi Skylab:



 Since each time when you do a review on a new amp and place it in one of your categories or tiers, you are mostly doing it out of memory when comparing to other amps in the same category as you really cannot keep 54 amps around and listen to them each time. Could you and would you mind commenting on the difference between the Protector and the Stepdance? They are two of your most recent reviews that are both in the same tier. I am not asking which one is better per se, or their physical difference like se vs balance which I know, but I just like to know how are they difference with their sound signature or characteristic. For instance, do you feel the Stepdance is stronger in certain aspects than the Protector and/or vice versa? Thanks for the good work that you did.


----------



## Skylab

Hi Jalo:
   
  I use a combination of "from memory" (which is pretty suspect, frankly), and more importantly by keeping some "benchmark" amps around.  I can use the benchmarks to help determine what tier things belong in.
   
  I only offer direct comparisons if I still have both amps around, and sadly I do not have the Protector anymore - that was a review loaner, and so it went back to RSA as soon as the review was done.  I only keep amps if I buy them.  So I can't really offer too much about the Stepdance versus Protector, other than to say unless you have balanced headphones, I would probably go for the Stepdance.


----------



## Noir7

hello guys
   
  just want some opinion about portable amp that suitable for treble centric IEM that doesn't cost more than headsix/xxs, maybe an amp that boost low and mid region to compensate with the treble domination of my IEM... any idea?


----------



## coolcat

Skylab if you can please tell the synergy between the ED8 and Stepdance (I have ALO RX amp with ED8 and I've found them pair very well,but I also have RS1,HF2,DX1000 and AD2000 and want to know if the Stepdance pair well with them ) ?
  Another point I would like to know how you put the ALOR X in your Ranking,in case you have a chance to try ALO RX,which I've myself found better than Mustang (just listen to Mustang shortly,may be I'm wrong here)
  thank you


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, I will A/B the Stepdance with the Lisa II Mini.


 

 my money is on lisa
   
  as always u do not dissapoint
   
  dude thank you!
   
  do u know when she will be available?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





coolcat said:


> Skylab if you can please tell the synergy between the ED8 and Stepdance (I have ALO RX amp with ED8 and I've found them pair very well,but I also have RS1,HF2,DX1000 and AD2000 and want to know if the Stepdance pair well with them ) ?
> Another point I would like to know how you put the ALOR X in your Ranking,in case you have a chance to try ALO RX,which I've myself found better than Mustang (just listen to Mustang shortly,may be I'm wrong here)
> thank you


 

 The Edition 8 sound great with the Stepdance.  I have not heard the ALO RX, however (and have no current plans to).

  
  Quote: 





rockincannoisseur said:


> my money is on lisa
> 
> as always u do not dissapoint
> 
> ...


 

 No, not sure when available, but I have the review loaner here and will begin to listen a little this week.


----------



## tdat7192

HOLY COW!!!! I am through 3 pages and with a mere 187 to go. I feel like I am drinking from a fire-hose.
  I just got here looking for an amp to drive Sony MDR7509 and AT 25-1 II's and now I want to remortgage my house or sell a car and buy tons of head-stuff!
  Thank you Skylab and everyone else!


----------



## Captfantastic

Christmas will be here soon Tdat.... start dropping hints.  heh


----------



## novacav

skylab, did you end up getting that toucan from mrarroyo? it's quite the beast i think you'd enjoy your time with it even if you don't wanna buy one


----------



## Skylab

I have it and am almost done with my review.


----------



## novacav

great news! thanks


----------



## wazzupi

skylab adopt me I'll be that audiophile son you never had. LMAO sorry but damn you got some sick rigs. XD


----------



## mrarroyo

*StepDance by Meier Audio*
   
  Thanks to Rob (Skylab) I am currently listening to the StepDance. My initial listening session was done with an iPod 5.5 Gen which I upgraded from 80 Gb to 240 Gb filled with Apple Lossless files. I used an older ALO Six Shooter line out dock which over the years has remained my favorite sounding unit (although the SXC in 18 gauge was very close overall with a bit better impact and warmth). For cans I used an Audio Technica ATH-ESW9 and ...
   
   
 [size=11.6667px] 1. Sound seemed to improved after the unit was on about 10 minutes. I do not recall ever hearing this in other portable SS amps, had to go back to the 1st song I listened too (Bill Evans - Piano Player) to confirm.[/size]

 [size=11.6667px] 2. Sound is on the warm side, with good impact and depth.[/size]

 [size=11.6667px] 3. Treble does not seem to extend as much as an iBasso D4 w/ HiFlight's Top Kit. Not a huge difference and I do not think I would have noticed it if I did not have both side by side.[/size]

 [size=11.6667px] 4. The battery door is very easy to operate, I do not recall the previous versions being so easy to open/close.[/size]

 [size=11.6667px] 5. Fit and finish is very good and the overall look is very appealing.[/size]

 [size=11.6667px]  [/size]

 [size=11.6667px] Next I changed to a Yuin OK1 which are my favorite earbuds while listening to Renee Olstead. I validated my initial impressions, the sound is warm and engaging with the presentation being a bit laid back. This would be perfect for an early Sunday morning or late evening chill out session. Next I will listen using a Westone 2 and a TripleFi 10. Thanks Rob.[/size]


----------



## Zuqi

Hi, anyone tried Meier stepdance with HF-2？ how does it compared with TTVJ slim?


----------



## Axcelon

I ordered a Stepdance recently and expect to receive it in the mail soon.
   
  I’ll be using it to drive the Shure se530, Denon D2000, Beyer DT800/600, and Earsonics SM3.
   
  For sources I will use the iMod 5.5 80GB, uDac-2, and (just for comparison) the line out of an iBasso D10.
   
  I will compare it to:  RSA Predator, D10, the uDac-2 amp, and the Icon HDP.
   
  A word about the active ground—this is probably (more than any other single feature) responsible for the dramatic advantage in SQ the Stepdance has.  The active ground reduces the magnetic field and voltage induced around the cables as they carry voltage and current to the headphones drivers.  The effect of these fields varies with frequency and cable and conductor shape, etc.  Normally, to avoid distortion of the signal amps are simply overbuilt to the point where they have enough power to keep the voltage and current so close to where it should be that no one notices the difference.  But the active ground allows the amp to be free of this often frequency-dependent interference.
   
  So if you take an amp that is already built to be bulletproof, that has a stepped attenuator and add to it the active ground circuitry—you will have an amp which will be much faster reacting, more fluid, and one that has a very firm grip on the drivers in your headphones.
   
  Jan, do you have any plans for a tube amp with your active ground circuit?  Done right that could possibly be the Head-Fi coup d’etat of the millennium.


----------



## Captfantastic

Looking forward to your impressions Axcelon...


----------



## musedesign

Skylab,
    Thank you for the wonderful work!  I am new to the hobby and appreciate the thought you have put into your reviews!
   
  Mark


----------



## Dennis

Why don't u add ALO RX(MK1 &2) into your list?


----------



## straden

Just a quick question, are you planning to review pico slim / arrow amp sometime in future? (those 2 seem to be very popular in forum these days)
  I already have ordered arrow and still waiting to be shipped, but would like to hear what you think about it as well as pico slim =)
  Thanks for amazing reviews


----------



## Skylab

Might be time to cover the question again about how amps get added to this review thread.  I almost never buy amps to review, unless I am personally extremely interested in owning one.  This means that for inclusion in this review thread, the maker must be willing to loan me an amp for a few weeks so I can review it.  Not everyone is interested in doing that.  Sometimes I request review loaners, and when I do, sometimes manufacturers say yes, and sometimes they don't.  Which is fine.  Sometimes I get asked by the manufacturer to review an amp, and sometimes I say yes, and sometimes I do not (I refuse to review amps which are not commercially available - if head-fiers cannot actually buy them, it's a waste of my time to review them).
   
  I don't mind people asking whether I have plans to review this or that amp (although the two posts above are a good example of one nice way and one not-so-nice way to go about it); but it's not possible for me to review everything, even if I actually had time and wanted to


----------



## Armaegis

Pfft, you mean you don't spent all your free time and resources reviewing products for our benefit? What kind of reviewerus prolificus are you?


----------



## bcwang

The Stepdance has me intrigued, but there are a few potential things I haven't got any clarity on.
   
  - Is there any hiss with very sensitive IEMs like the SE530 or UM3X?  Maybe the whole balanced ground thing makes hiss a thing of the past?
   
  - How low can the volume go with said sensitive IEMs and normal line level source?
   
  - Which step is the normal listening level with said sensitive IEMs and a normal line level source?
   
  - Are the volume steps kinda big, like an iphone volume button kinda adjustment or very fine and feels almost continuous?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Bcwang, you should try asking that question in the Stepdance thread. I can't help, since I am not an IEM guy.


----------



## qusp

any portable amp that uses a bipolar opamp has voltage and current traveling through the 'ground' node, because there is no such thing as ground in a portable battery powered device. but this makes no difference to the chip, it is only a reference with which to tell what is + and what is -. balanced ground 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 think there is a mix up in terminology there
   
  virtual ground on a tube amp would be difficult and I dont see the point, generally tubes are push pull by nature, (balanced) so I see no benefit


----------



## Axcelon

Qusp
   
  According to Jan Meier’s website, the “balanced ground” actually uses a specific signal that is generated in response to the L/R input channels—that is different from either one alone—and outputs that to the ground lead while simultaneously outputting the sum of the GND output with L on the L output and GND+R on the Right.  This accomplishes many things at once, particularly in producing a net voltage and current of zero in the cables leading to the headphones regardless of the audio signal apparent to the drivers.  The effect reduces the electric and magnetic fields produced while driving the audio signal—which would otherwise distort the signal as the amp is forced to supply the energy to produce them rather than drive the drivers.
   
  This makes perfect sense from an Electrical Enginnering and Physics point of view.  The proof is in the pudding—and the StepDance is very good pudding indeed.
   
  There is nothing to imply that this technique would not work with a tube amp.


----------



## qusp

[size=medium] 

 [size=medium][size=medium][size=small]I guess i'll check it out at a meet sometime as the concept sounds intriguing. I dont buy amps anymore, stepped off the conveyer belt [/size]
   
  [size=small]my point was, tubes are mostly push pull ie balanced by nature, I dont know why you would use this psuedo balanced technique on something that is already balanced in actuality. the advantage I see here is people getting much of the benefit without having to recable their headphones. other than that it sounds like it uses just about as many components as truly balanced amps and just as much power used, but without the CMRR or. double output swing although perhaps some other effect i'm not aware of. very inventive I must say. like I said in the other thread, I do think Jan knows what hes doing, moreso than me thats for sure, but for someone such as myself already using DIY balanced everything for portable as it is, it will remain a fascinating concept[/size]
   
  [size=small]so its pseudo differential silence plus audio haha,  inverting opamp loops FTW!![/size]
   
 [size=medium][size=small]@ skylab: no wonder you have so many posts mate, you have to answer so many redundant questions, or fend off people pestering you to make yet another comparison that only tells them how it sounds with gear X before they buy something. the stepdance sounds interesting, no wonder it chews battery going by the description of the circuit, using a good amount of energy to create a pseudo differential nothing for the signal to be rendered against. [/size]
   
  [size=small]but hey since when does that matter if the result is great as it seems to be. I take back my initial skepticism after reading up a bit, I understand that 'balanced ground' might be a good way to explain to those with less electronics knowledge, but IMO it is something else entirely, though i'm not sure exactly what you would call it. ground to me suggests something that is without voltage gain, but this type of circuit can indeed/must have gain. i'm always this skeptical of thngs that involve buzzwords, it should not be taken as attack[/size]
   
  [size=small]pfft FiQ not portable,....my camera bag disagrees [/size]
   
  [size=small]the above should not be taken as a personal slag against the protagonists here, but guys, some of these questions are a bit unreasonable to ask of the man, he does a great service to the site, but should not be taken for granted[/size]
   ​[/size]
​[/size]
​[/size]
​[/size]


----------



## qusp

combined above


----------



## Theodore

Hi.
  Since I bought the Yuin PK1 earphones,and I wait for them,I think I have to go for a amp/DAC combo,either the pico amp/dac,or the i-Qube/dac .
  I have only a W995 mobile and I have to go for a mp3/flac player,that can combine well,with the above amps,benefitting from their presence,especially from their 24/96 capability,(usb port).
  Can you suggest such a player?


----------



## daveDerek

Quote:


axcelon said:


> I ordered a Stepdance recently and expect to receive it in the mail soon.
> [snip]
> A word about the active ground—this is probably (more than any other single feature) responsible for the dramatic advantage in SQ the Stepdance has.


 

 incredible! you wrote this without actually possessing the amp then?!?  where are you coming up with 'the dramatic advantage in sq the stepdance has' ? certainly that is NOT what skylab said about it. true, he placed it at the top of his portable amp heap, but he also stated that the differences were subtle compared to his other favorites, and that it wasn't the best with every can he tested it with. thankfully head-fi does have more level headed commentators on board, though many have been driven away by having to deal with too much of this sort of hyperbole, especially when it appears that someone hasn't actually used the device before writing such brash things! enthusiasm is great, but such pronouncements are useless, or worse.


----------



## Axcelon

Cusp, thanks.  You know, you told me I didn't know what a buffer is on another thread and you were wrong there too.  At least you assumed I was wrong, because I haven't posted here a lot.
  And daveDerek,obviously ordering an amp implies someone has never heard it--how correct!  Unless they have?
   
  But at least you guys attack someone with a low post count who is enthusiastic--you're like little ambassadors to all the newcomers, welcoming us with benevolent words of wisdom.
   
  Maybe I should pretend I can't read and have no technical knowledge and haven't heard anything.  Then can we be friends?  At least until my post count is 1000+?


----------



## daveDerek

Axcelon, it's not about post count. there are some very knowledgeable people who have low post counts and there are others that rack up thousands of posts in a few months who just enjoy posting but demonstrate little actual listening experience. unfortunately the latter drive up the signal to noise ratio and make it harder to find useful information. they're also often misleading. we're getting a much larger membership here, many of whom are young, inexperienced and impressionable. hyperbole can hurt rather than help.
   
  nowhere did you mention anything about critically listening to this amp, nor anything about comparing it to other units. you mentioned that you had ordered the amp and that you would use it with several cans, and that you would compare it to several amps. did you audition the amp prior to ordering it?  you seemed amped up ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) about dr meier's prowess with circuitry design and its technical merits (which i respect, btw).  i did enjoy your explanation about his design, which adds to the discussion here. but you also stated that it had 'a dramatic advantage in sq', without mentioning anything about listening experiences. that kind of statement seems at odds with skylab's experience (and he sure seems to have a lot of experience with portable amps!). if you've found something different please share it with us in some more detail.
  either way we can be friends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




,  but those kinds of over the top posts invite skeptical responses.


----------



## estreeter

Hi Rob,
   
        After a long absence from Head-Fi, I returned a couple of weeks ago and revisited this old thread. I also tried to find a similar thread Larry had been updating over a long period, but I cant seem to find it, nor am I seeing any recent posts from HPA. Apologies if I have missed something here - it may simply be that dementia is clouding my ability to sift through the massive number of posts in this forum.
   
  Thanks,
   
  estreeter


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> After a long absence from Head-Fi, I returned a couple of weeks ago and revisited this old thread. I also tried to find a similar thread Larry had been updating over a long period, but I cant seem to find it, nor am I seeing any recent posts from HPA. Apologies if I have missed something here - it may simply be that dementia is clouding my ability to sift through the massive number of posts in this forum.
> 
> ...


 

 i'd like to trash the ratings and just put them in top tier, middle tier and bottom tier.  I had this to say at the end,
   
  "I have several ties in rank, and as I use the amps more over time my preferences may change; but* The 8 amps in 1st - 5th place are all on a similarly high level of performance, and are very close to a tie for 1st*. There is NOT a huge leap in sound moving from #5 to #1, but rather the rank is rather based on preference and which I prefer to use the most. I could almost make all the top 5 places tie for 1st, but I wont. 

  Although some have better DACs than others, and some have better amp sections than others, it may average out in the final sound signature and performance. Choosing one can be based on features, price, synergy with the headphones tested, where I could be just as happy with any of them as my only portable DAC/amp if I were reduced to one."
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/306883/updated-2-22-review-13-usb-dac-amp-predator-pico-2-3move-d10-d3-d2-viper-boa-d1-lyrix-microamp-vivid-v1-nuforce-xm5


----------



## estreeter

Thanks so much Larry.


----------



## MarkTwain

I bought the Corda Stepdance to compare with my RSA Protector. 

 Maybe it's my ear problem, but the Protector (balanced mode) seems more detailed and deeper bass impact than my Stepdance. Stepdance sounds more laid back but soundstage and clarity seems to lose out to Protector. 

 I am using Hifiman HM-801 as source. 

 Sold the Stepdance the next day. Enjoying my protector again!


----------



## Skylab

*iBasso Audio Toucan PB1*

 Miguel (Mrarroyo) was kind enough to lend me his iBasso Toucan portable amp.  While the Toucan is capable of being a balnced amp, I was only able to test it unbalanced, and so my comments refer only to its single-ended performance with an unbalanced source and SE headphones.

*Info: http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=60*


*Build Quality*: A: Very attractive and sturdy chassis.  I have always thought iBasso’s casework was excellent, and this one is no exception.  There was no audible turn-on transient to speak of.  There was onl;y a very little hiss using the Beyer t50p at the very top of the rotation of the volume control.
   
*Treble:* A: The treble is quite smooth, and extended, and is generally transparent.  Compared to the other top SE amps, it had just a very slight grain to it, but this was only noticeable on direct comparison.  I also thought that the treble was perhaps just a tiny bit on the hot side. But overall the performance was very good.

*Midrange: A:* Nicely open and transparent, with just a slight touch of lushness and warmth that was highly enjoyable and never took away from the sense of overall neutrality.  The performance here was just short of the very best, but still very, very good. 

*Bass: A+:* Absolutely nothing to complain about here, even by the highest standards  - Deep, tight, powerful – on par with the other top-class amps in this regard.
   
*Neutrality: A:* The Toucan definitely comes across as essentially neutral, although with all the headphones I tried I felt that there was a tiny bit of extra sizzle to the treble on occasion, coupled with just a tiny bit of fatness in the mids, although these were very subtle shadings .

*Soundstaging: A:* Here again the performance was very, very good, but not at the same level as the iQube or Meier Stepdance (both of which I have in house and was able to compare to the Toucan directly).  The soundstage was a little less 3D than the better amps here.

*Transparency: A-: * At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the Toucan used single ended struck me as being short of the top-tier performance in terms of transparency.  Very good, but not outstanding.  There was some slight grain in the treble, and a very slight opaqueness to the midrange that was noticeable, and that bothered me even a little in absolute terms, but that was pretty noticeable when being compare to the Stepdance or iQube.

 In a way I felt bad about using the Toucan only single ended, given its balanced capabilities, but that is the only way I had to test it, and also the only amps I have to compare it to were all single ended.  The iBasso, at $229, is not that far off of the better amps, and has the ability to be used balanced, which may be a useful/desirable feature for some.  For those folks, it’s a bargain.


----------



## Jalo

Sky thanks for the review but I feel a little bit disappointed that the balance mode did not get tested. Most people buy the Toucan for its balance operation and since you reviewed the Protector in balance, I was hoping the toucan can be compared to the protector. May be Mrarroyo could have sent some Hirose adaptor along for the balance comparison. But thanks for the effort. Ces La Vie.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Sky thanks for the review but I feel a little bit disappointed that the balance mode did not get tested. Most people buy the Toucan for its balance operation and since you reviewed the Protector in balance, I was hoping the toucan can be compared to the protector. May be Mrarroyo could have sent some Hirose adaptor along for the balance comparison. But thanks for the effort. Ces La Vie.


 


  I agree, and I hope to test the Toucan in balanced mode soon, and then will update.  Note that I did make this clear in the review.


----------



## moodyrn

I also would have liked for it to have been reviewed in balance mode, but I must say that I'm very impressed with your impressions Skylab. The lowest grade that it received was an A-, and in some areas you even thought it was right up there with the best. I didn't think this thing would perform so well single ended. I have owned and listened to balanced amps in the past that was very good when driven balanced, but the single ended output was only average. I pretty much expected this to be the case with the toucan as well. The fact that it's performance was that close to the top tier amps is very impressive. It just make me wonder how good it is when driven balanced. So from the looks of it, this amp would be a pretty good value if it was only single ended but a balanced amp with this kind of performance at this price is pretty amazing. Unfortunately I just purchased a stax portable system, so I have no need for this. But I may just consider this amp anyway to try out on my full size cans. From the specs it doesn't look like power would be an issue.


----------



## Skylab

I would definitely have preferred to test if both ways - but I did not have access to the required balanced cables.


----------



## moodyrn

Still an excellent and well written review as always. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I've been waiting for a while to read a review from someone without any bias(someone who owns it). Looks to be as good as advertised.


----------



## estreeter

guys, as much as it would be of great value for skylab and others to review components in balanced mode, the single-ended comparison makes for a more level playing field, IMO, with amps like the Stepdance. That, and I dont own any balanced headphones


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would definitely have preferred to test if both ways - but I did not have access to the required balanced cables.


 


  hey skylab, did you think that Stepdance has similiar signature like Corda Swing?, I look that both of them has similiar price. I've heard Swing, I like it, how about stepdance then? any big different to Corda Swing?
   
  I'm not really need portable, but transportable instead.


----------



## swbf2cheater

I hate to ask skylab since for recommendations, he seems like a busy person lol
   
  but jeez im having trouble finding a good cheaper amp to go with my Ibasso D1, my cat and I need some help :3


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





themiddlesky said:


> hey skylab, did you think that Stepdance has similiar signature like Corda Swing?, I look that both of them has similiar price. I've heard Swing, I like it, how about stepdance then? any big different to Corda Swing?
> 
> I'm not really need portable, but transportable instead.


 

 I didn't get to compare them, so I can't say for sure.  But if you need a transportable, the Stepdance with a good power supply would be a pretty decent choice.

  
  Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> I hate to ask skylab since for recommendations, he seems like a busy person lol
> 
> but jeez im having trouble finding a good cheaper amp to go with my Ibasso D1, my cat and I need some help :3


 

 What kind of price range were you thinking of?


----------



## andrew3199

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> I hate to ask skylab since for recommendations, he seems like a busy person lol
> 
> but jeez im having trouble finding a good cheaper amp to go with my Ibasso D1, my cat and I need some help :3


 


   Just thought I would jump in here (Hope Skylab doesn't mind) I got the Ibasso T3 a few days ago and it sounds fantastic for $119 + shipping, it really get my foot tapping, does a really nice job when paired with my Ety's.


----------



## swbf2cheater

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What kind of price range were you thinking of?


 

 I'm looking to purchase used for around $175 sometime around Christmas, lol.  I'm really hoping for something like the Tomahawk.  The Ibasso D1 I have right now lacks heavily in the amping, but wow does it clean things up and space the audio out nicely.  It only goes a great job when used as a USB dac with the headphones listed in my profile, so I really need something small to go along with it that wont ruin its excellent quality.  Just as an example, I did use the newer Pav2 hooked up with the D1 and it severely downgraded the sound quality, but amped everything with ease.  My Ad700s are lacking a lot when Im just using the wall adapter or portable D1 running on internal charge, the Philips HP1000 is seriously lacking, the Phiaton MS400 does okay but not good enough for me.  My ideal set up again is something to pair well with the Ibasso d1 for pure amping needs but doesnt ruin the quality or spaciousness too much, and one that is small ( again, tomahawk looks really sexy and the perfect size ) to be used as a portable amp 
   
  Heck, Ideally I would love one of those Bravo Tube amps I see on ebay for like $50 and maybe add whatever $ I get during the holidays for a used Tomahawk.  Seems like that would be the best set up for my needs.  But any thoughts or recommendations you would have are greatly appreciated.  I am no amp expert lol 

  
  Quote: 





andrew3199 said:


> Just thought I would jump in here (Hope Skylab doesn't mind) I got the Ibasso T3 a few days ago and it sounds fantastic for $119 + shipping, it really get my foot tapping, does a really nice job when paired with my Ety's.


 

 I've owned the T3 and it is not powerful enough to drive the gear I have, I did try it on my AD700 a long time ago and it ruined the stage size just like the pav2 did.   A serious difference from the Ibasso D1+D3 combo, to using the Ibasso D1+T3 or garys pav.  HUGE difference lol. 
   
  Anyway ya, if anyone can suggest anything to me, I would really appreciate it.  Portable amps are a new genre for me haha.  I've very little experience with them.


----------



## TimmWith2Ms

I'm rather new around here, so all of the technicalities of audiophilia is rather foreign to me. I did, however, make my first step into high end cans by purchasing a pair of Phiaton MS 400 yesterday (I love the low end, but as many reviews have said the high end is a tad underwhelming). I was wondering if people could recommend a small portable amp that A) brightens the highs B) adds size and depth to the soundstage C) overall goes well with warm, bass and mid driven cans like the MS 400s. 

 If the things I say sound strange, I apologize. My audio knowledge is still rather sophomoric. lol


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I agree, and I hope to test the Toucan in balanced mode soon, and then will update.  Note that I did make this clear in the review.


 




  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would definitely have preferred to test if both ways - but I did not have access to the required balanced cables.


 


  Hi Rob, just let me know when  you would like to listen to the amp, matching dac, and interconnect. I can have a Hirose to female 4-pin adapter cable made. Send me a PM to coordinate, cheers.


----------



## alyanm

Great review, this is an awesome piece of work here, thanks so much!
   
  Did I miss the Headstage Arrow 12HE?  Sure would be nice to see what tier that ends up on; it certainly seems to be popular around here and I really like the form factor.  Also wondering about the Pico Slim -- I'm guessing similar SQ to the Pico?  Anybody know how those two stack up against ones reviewed here in the top 3 tiers like RSA Mustang and Meier Stepdance?


----------



## daveDerek

akyanm, if you search you'll find threads and discussions about how those amps and their sonic characteristics, about which much has already been said.


----------



## Skylab

Next up for me is the ALO RXII.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Next up for me is the ALO RXII.


 

 That is _very _interesting. Excellent.


----------



## daveDerek

c'mon Rob, we want your review of the alo rx3 already!


----------



## Skylab

Sorry Double D, but you may be disappointed to learn that I haven't even started to listen to it yet.  I have to take these things in the order in which they were received, and I have another amp ahead of it.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

hmm... between Stepdance and Swing hmm......


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





davederek said:


> c'mon Rob, we want your review of the alo rx3 already!


 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sorry Double D, but you may be disappointed to learn that I haven't even started to listen to it yet.  I have to take these things in the order in which they were received, and I have another amp ahead of it.


 

 hmmm, mebbe i shoulda put a winky in there to indicate i was only kidding around. of course you have other priorities, and of course the alo v2 is just coming out and a v3 hasn't even been announced.....


----------



## mrarroyo

dave when will you be writing your review on the MiniBox-ES?


----------



## Zuqi

Bump!

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Next up for me is the ALO RXII.


----------



## xXFallenAngelXx

Can't wait for some more reviews..there is so much to choose from..my wallet is probably hiding at this very momment


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote:


mrarroyo said:


> dave when will you be writing your review on the MiniBox-ES?


 


  very interested in this as well, looking forward to what you have to say


----------



## alyanm

Quote: 





davederek said:


> akyanm, if you search you'll find threads and discussions about how those amps and their sonic characteristics, about which much has already been said.


 

 Quite right!  Well I took my chances and got me a Pico Slim -- very happy so far even though I don't know what tier it lives on...


----------



## Skylab

*ALO RX Mk II*
   
  I asked for and received a loan of the ALO RX Mk II from ALO audio.  The amp is very low profile, but somewhat large in terms of footprint.  Nice looking amp, though.
   
  Info:  http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_60&products_id=556
   
*Build Quality: A*+ It comes in a very, very attractive metal case.  There is only a very slight turn on tick.  The digital volume control works quite well. The gain switch is always a very welcome thing - I used it on low gain.

*Bass A+*: the bass is slightly elevated in level versus the Meier Stepdance (which is my current reference in terms of neutrality, among other things). The RX Mk II has a little more bass than is strictly neutral.  But it was of very good quality, and on the Beyer t50p, it was really quite welcome.  Might not be ideal for already bassy headphones, though.

*Midrange A*: the mids were just a little lush, but were generally very clean and open sounding.  The RX II lacks the supreme transparency of the top tier amps, but is verge good nonetheless.  Vocals were natural sounding, as were string instruments.

*Treble A:* the treble was just a bit softer than on my reference amps, but was still nicely nuanced and detailed, and clean.  There was a good delicacy of instruments.  Brushwork was natural sounding.  Here again, short of the top tier, but very good.

*Neutrality A*: there is a slight departure from truly neutral in that there is a bit of a downward sloping overall response.  But this gives the music a powerful yet non aggressive nature that is unfailingly good sounding, and we are talking about a very subtle shading here, not a gross coloration. 

*Transparency A*: overall the sound is grainless and clean.  There is just a slightly less sense of openness versus the Meier , but taken on it's own the RX Mk II is a transparent sounding amp, with no veil detectable. This was quite obvious on well recorded female vocals, like on Alison Krauss's "Maybe", which sounded terrific.

*Soundstage A*: - a little deeper than it is wide, but very well defined, and puts instruments out in front somewhat, which is really nice.  The image specificity was excellent, and lateral image placement was also very good.

 So what we have here is an amp with no major weaknesses, and a lot of very strong performance.  It's just a tiny bit fat on the bass and light on the treble, which will suit many headphones really, really well.  It was a VERY synergistic pairing with the Beyer T50p.  Overall I think it is a very recommendable amp, and one I'm having a hard time letting go of.  If I have any issue, it's that it faces some pretty stiff competition at it's $450 price point.  Still, for an excellent amp with just a bit of bass kick, if you like the footprint/size, it's a great choice.


----------



## cooperpwc

Excellent review as always, Rob!

It sounds like a compelling sound signature. Clearly the pairing with the Algorythm Solo is going to be the attractive combination so hopefully at some point you can test their synergies (not as part of this thread but it would be nice to know what you think.).


----------



## kostalex

Skylab, I suggest you to clarify your ranking in your first post or any its continuation where you explain this ranking.
  How do you sort amps inside the level? 
  I do not see the answer there in your ranking description.
   
  Also (sorry if you already answered) - was D4 review sample stock or upgraded with op-amps?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Skylab, I suggest you to clarify your ranking in your first post or any its continuation where you explain this ranking.
> How do you sort amps inside the level?
> I do not see the answer there in your ranking description.
> 
> Also (sorry if you already answered) - was D4 review sample stock or upgraded with op-amps?


 

 Kostalex - the first post DOES contain an explanation of the ranking.  You must have missed it.  It's right above the rankings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  All my reviews are done using stock op-amps.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## kostalex

Is this a right quote? I see no explanation how do you sort amps inside the level. For example, I do not get which do you prefer better - Rx or Pico.
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> OK, so now it’s now 53 amps! NOTE: I have decided to change the way the rankings work. I have created LEVELS, rather than individual ranks. As before, note that the sum of the "Grades" I give does not always tell the whole story in how I rank them, since the whole is sometimes greater or lesser than the sum of the parts, and I am often forced to split hairs here, since the list has gotten so long. Also please note that even if these amps include a DAC, that DAC performance was NOT a factor in these rankings AT ALL. Also, for clarification, this ranking is based on sound quality ONLY, and does not take things like size or battery life into account.


----------



## Skylab

kostalex said:


> Is this a right quote? I see no explanation how do you sort amps inside the level. For example, I do not get which do you prefer better - Rx or Pico.






Ahhh...sorry, now I understand. But the point is that I am no longer ranking amps within the levels.


----------



## ddr

is the arrow 12HE on your future list?


----------



## kostalex

May I suggest you to sort them either

 alphabetically
 by the price
 by the review date
   
  and describe this order in your ranking legend?
   
  Or just to mention that you do not rank them within the levels 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ahhh...sorry, now I understand. But the point is that I am no longer ranking amps within the levels.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Or just to mention that you do not rank them within the levels


 
 Done! Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## kostalex

Probably you would like one more suggestion. Here are how I ranked the heaphones:
   
   
  Quote: 





> My sound quality ranking chart for May 1, 2010
> 
> I tried more than 90 headphones, but I list only those I may rate with confidence. I divide them into the 5 classes by sound quality alone - Hi-End, Hi-Fi, Mid-Fi, Low-Fi and Consumer Grade. Then I divide some classes with 3 subclasses - like H1, H2, H3 for Hi-Fi. Inside the rows headphones are listed in the order of my personal preference with no regards to the pricing - I asked myself: "Which do I like more to receive as a gift?". I also discovered an interesting phenomena - I prefer some headphones (say DT770) to those higher rated (say DT880). Unfortunately, I found no way to represent this in a simple way.
> 
> ...


----------



## trentino

I know Skylab states that the Protector is tested in balanced mode and the Toucan is not, but I can't get rid of the feeling that the Toucan, if reviewed at all, should of course be reviewed in balanced mode. The SE mode is also of interest to all readers of course, but it is ( I hear) a small balanced amp with great specs so not including the balanced mode in a review doesn't seem right. I love this thread and it has helped me several times in making my amp buying decisions, and I'm not trying to be rude. But please Skylab, if you have the time, include the balanced mode in the Toucan review.


----------



## Skylab

I would sure like to, and I hope to have the chance to. The iBasso reviews I do are based on the kind loans from Miguel and others, since iBasso does not send me loaners for review anymore. This is what happens when you are honest in reviews, sometimes - the manufacturer reacts by refusing to send you any further products for review. Which is understandable, but unfortunate. 

Not all are like that, though. I wasn't impressed with the first ALO Rx, but ALO was undaunted, and happily sent me the RX MK II for review, and I am glad they did, since it's excellent.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Can you give some info about why you didnt impressed or like the first ALO Rx? Is it that different from MK2?
   
  Also thanks for all that reviews Skylab.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not all are like that, though. I wasn't impressed with the first ALO Rx, but ALO was undaunted, and happily sent me the RX MK II for review, and I am glad they did, since it's excellent.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, it's quite different! For more detail, please check my review of each


----------



## hasanyuceer

I didnt thought if there is a ALO Rx review because there is nothing about it in ranking. Searched google and this topic but still nothing. Can you help me where can I find the review of original ALO Rx?
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, it's quite different! For more detail, please check my review of each


----------



## Skylab

Sorry, my mistake. It was the ALO Double Mini3 that I reviewed previously, NOT the Original RX.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Ok then, thanks


----------



## Zuqi

Hi, Skylab, here is a bit suggestion, what about make a new comparison among the 'newer generation' portable amps, such as meier stepdance, pico slim, ttvj slim, alo rx mk2, etc. because people may pay much more attentions to these amps, and lesser attention to the 'older generation' amps.


----------



## Skylab

Honestly, I'm not planning to do much more with this thread. I'm really not interested much in portable amps anymore. I have been reviewing the amps I've been asked to, but I plan to start declining. I want to focus my reviewing time on higher end stuff


----------



## Zuqi

That's understandable, its boring to keep on make reviews on amps at the same level, that's just a suggestion, I do appriciated you spend your own time to share your review to us.





  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Honestly, I'm not planning to do much more with this thread. I'm really not interested much in portable amps anymore. I have been reviewing the amps I've been asked to, but I plan to start declining. I want to focus my reviewing time on higher end stuff


----------



## Guidostrunk

You cant leave us hangin Rob.Your detailed reviews had a great deal of influence on what i bought. I dont think theirs anyone capable of doing what you do IMO. Sad to see this thread go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.I guess i have to go high end then.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for all you have done for us. Cheers


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, fellas. Portable amps were responsible for turning me on to even higher end headphone gear. I was once just a speaker-hifi guy when I came here almost six years ago! 

I still love writing reviews, but most of what you will read from me on head-fi will be more home tube amps


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well can you recommend a novice tube amp ...say... around the 3 to 400 dollar range. I'm going to have the LCD-2 by the end of this month and wondering if a tube amp would have nice synergy with them. In the future once i re-cooperate from the recent money spent i will contact you on a higher end tube amp, but for now I'm looking at max 400 USD.Thanks in advance and sorry for high jacking the thread temporarily.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks for the kind words, fellas. Portable amps were responsible for turning me on to even higher end headphone gear. I was once just a speaker-hifi guy when I came here almost six years ago!
> 
> I still love writing reviews, but most of what you will read from me on head-fi will be more home tube amps


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for all you have done in this thread, it is so long there is a disconnect between the older gen portable amps and the new stuff which is better, smaller, or just different. Ibasso seems to have really upped their game in the past year. Color me impressed. Ray Samuels, who has been here from the beginning, has been a great innovator, too.
   
  I can see you getting sick of doing the same thing over and over again, especially on things that are trying to imitate other things (fullsize desktop stuff) and not coming close in many cases. Even though I have never owned a portable amp, I am now pretty much sick of thinking of them except in regards to something good enough to be my only main amp, possibly something balanced and from ibasso or some other pioneer. Portable amps are fun toys and have a place if you want good sound on the go, but an argument could be made for their extinction right now with the better DAPs that have what equates to a small portable amp inside. If you want to stop fooling around with these toys or take a break and review some better  stuff with much greater unrestrained capabilities, be my guest. Your contribution will always be remembered. 
   
  P.S. I am not putting down portable amps, I am just giving myself and anyone else open to it a little perspective. Sometimes obsessing over something makes that something no fun.


----------



## swbf2cheater

[size=medium]Recently I purchased and tested an RSA Tomahawk to be used with my Sansa Clip+, Grado 325i and a few other low ohm cans,  I found it to be heavily lacking due to the sansa clips high output, I really hoped it would provide a justified sound and push increase for the price.  After heavy testing for days using it and just the clip+ alone, I was not happy.
   
  Im not an amp expert so I thought I would ask you.  Was the lack of the RSA tomahawks driving ability with the sansa clip+ due to the low ohmage headphones I was using?  Both were 32ohm and under.  Ive been looking at the new sunrise Charm earbuds which are 150ohm and wanted to know if the Tommy would show significant difference with the clip+ than just the clip by itself.  The Sansa lineup has such a great output level, I've found a lot of my headphones did not befit enough from the Tomahawk enough to keep it.  My problem was I was in need of ultraportability.  The tomahawk is the smallest I know of and it had fantastic quality all around, but just didn't push anything I owned enough when I used it with a sansa clip :[
   
  any help or advice you can offer is appreciated.  I am perfectly fine with rebuying it used again, but only if you would think it would show significant difference and pushing or driving 150ohm earbuds with the clip+
   
   ​[/size]


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





guidostrunk said:


> Well can you recommend a novice tube amp ...say... around the 3 to 400 dollar range. I'm going to have the LCD-2 by the end of this month and wondering if a tube amp would have nice synergy with them. In the future once i re-cooperate from the recent money spent i will contact you on a higher end tube amp, but for now I'm looking at max 400 USD.Thanks in advance and sorry for high jacking the thread temporarily.


 
   
  With the LCD-2, which are a little more demanding than some headphones, it's tricky.  Please head on over to the "Amp Recommendations for the LCD-2" folder, and I will answer your question there, to the best of my ability.
  
   


  Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Recently I purchased and tested an RSA Tomahawk to be used with my Sansa Clip+, Grado 325i and a few other low ohm cans,  I found it to be heavily lacking due to the sansa clips high output, I really hoped it would provide a justified sound and push increase for the price.  After heavy testing for days using it and just the clip+ alone, I was not happy.
> 
> Im not an amp expert so I thought I would ask you.  Was the lack of the RSA tomahawks driving ability with the sansa clip+ due to the low ohmage headphones I was using?  Both were 32ohm and under.  Ive been looking at the new sunrise Charm earbuds which are 150ohm and wanted to know if the Tommy would show significant difference with the clip+ than just the clip by itself.  The Sansa lineup has such a great output level, I've found a lot of my headphones did not befit enough from the Tomahawk enough to keep it.  My problem was I was in need of ultraportability.  The tomahawk is the smallest I know of and it had fantastic quality all around, but just didn't push anything I owned enough when I used it with a sansa clip :[
> 
> ...


 

 The Tomahawk was made for IEM's, so it's not low impedance that is the issue.  But the Tomahawk also assumes the very high sensitivity of an IEM - it's RSA's least powerful portable amp, and isn't likely to do well with 325i's.  You should get a P-51 mustang.  Still very small, but FAR more powerful.


----------



## rasmushorn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The  P-51 Mustang certainly sounds great with the SR325i. It adds slam and punch to the bass and the dry sound from the Mustang suits the SR325i's bright and edgy sound. I enjoy that combination VERY much... though the iQube gives the SR325 more goosebump-factor - if you want to pay a little extra for that


----------



## swbf2cheater

well, I recently sold the 325i's for X reason lol, and was looking to remove all my larger less portable sets. 
   
  I was recommended the tommy and told I might enjoy the signature and the added boost it gave.  I loved the signature but it didn't mesh well with the low impedance headphones I currently own.   It seems like serious overkill to use a $300 amp with $80 earbuds to me.   Perhaps a Mustang purchase will come after the holidays or after the next tax return haha.  I will happily rebuy the tomahawk to be used with the new 150 ohm sunrise buds and the sansa clip+  but again, only if it shows significant difference when amped off the clip, I'll need to wait until I can find someone else to test 150ohm headphones with a tomahawk and a clip+ and let me know how it performs.  Of course I want a mustang, I always have lol.  But, my problem is portability and I don't like any other player outside of the Fuze and Clip, but they both have ridiculous output and the Tomahawk made almost no difference at all with them.  If people think the mustang will show significant difference when using a clip and 150ohm earbuds, I will likely try to get one.


----------



## Tinola

Would be great if you reviewed the new P4, as your last review lol  That's fine though since this thread has helped me a lot.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Honestly, I'm not planning to do much more with this thread. I'm really not interested much in portable amps anymore. I have been reviewing the amps I've been asked to, but I plan to start declining. I want to focus my reviewing time on higher end stuff


 


  I knew this day would come, Rob, and I can only say that I am surprised that it has taken this long. Common sense dictates that you moved onto 'higher end stuff' some time ago, and I honestly dont know how yourself or Larry field so many questions each week. More generally, I have noticed that many of the perennial 'what DAC/amp/headphones should I buy' questions are getting little response on these forums, and I have to put that down to the fact that many of the old hands are simply burnt out fielding the same questions repeatedly. As you would undoubtedly know, Head-Fi is often dismissed as 'the blind leading the blind' on other fora, and I fear that this will increasingly be the case as folk like yourself migrate to other areas of interest within the hobby.
   
  Thank you for the effort you have put into this thread and so many others - its been a privilege to read your reviews.
   
  estreeter


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ditto.


----------



## swbf2cheater

Im really on the fence about which to try next.  I really like the  Meier Audio Headsix amp idk really, tough choice, something small, cheap and good enough to show actually do much better than just the clip+ alone


----------



## Skylab

headphoneaddict said:


> Ditto.








Thanks much, estreeter and Larry. Appreciate that 




swbf2cheater said:


> Im really on the fence about which to try next.  I really like the  Meier Audio Headsix amp idk really, tough choice, something small, cheap and good enough to show actually do much better than just the clip+ alone







The problem is, small and cheap seem to be a little tough to get in one package. I have taken to using the RSA P51 Mustang most of the portable amps I own, due to the small size. But it's not cheap.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The problem is, small and cheap seem to be a little tough to get in one package. I have taken to using the RSA P51 Mustang most of the portable amps I own, due to the small size. But it's not cheap.


 

 Rob, I know you are hesitant to nominate a single amp, but if we ignore the genuinely 'portable' and look at the larger 'transportable' amps, is it fair to say that the Lisa III would be on your bedside table over everything you've reviewed in this thread. I know that more money doesnt necessarily buy you better sound, but this amp seems to have stood the test of time.


----------



## Skylab

Yep. I have been listening to the new L3, the updated version of the Lisa III, which I will review soon, and it is still top dog, if you ignore size and price.


----------



## swbf2cheater

After shopping around and getting reviews, thoughts and comments from some others, I came away with three likely picks.  The mini3, the minibox E and the Headsix
   
  Im actually leaning toward the minibox due to the larger stage presentation over the other two.  I wish headdirect would drop 80$ off the list price on it lol ( comes with free REOs right now )


----------



## estreeter

Thanks Rob - I am prepared to ignore size and price when you consider that you simply can't put most fullsize amps in your backpack and set them up in a hotel room or on your desk at work. I'm sure someone out there has a monster tube amp on his (workplace) desk, but I would put that up there with those folk who seem compelled to have a fishtank and a fernery on their desks. The difference is that you dont get asked to feed someone's amp while they are on leave


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> After shopping around and getting reviews, thoughts and comments from some others, I came away with three likely picks.  The mini3, the minibox E and the Headsix
> 
> Im actually leaning toward the minibox due to the larger stage presentation over the other two.  I wish headdirect would drop 80$ off the list price on it lol ( comes with free REOs right now )


 

 Of those you mentioned I have only heard the Headsix, and it's a very capable amp for the price.  I preferred it slightly over my RSA Tomahawk, although the Headsix was about 1/2" deeper in size.  But I do agree with Rob that the P-51 is a great portable amp, and it probably remains one of the best mini-amps out there.  It's a little more powerful than the smaller Shadow or Pico Slim which makes it more versatile, and it's even smaller than the Headsix.  I regret selling mine, but I only did so to help pay for the more powerful and larger balanced Protector.
   
  I've read mrarroyo's impressions of the Minibox E+ and he loves that sucker with AD797 opamps, but I don't know how it differs from the E.  I'd like to hear one someday, but I'm not that interested in reviewing portables without a DAC anymore, unless they are as tiny as the iBasso T3 or Pico Slim.  Speaking of the T3, that one reminds me a little of the Headsix, but with slightly less power, transparency, detail and soundstage.  
   
  On the other end of the spectrum, the P-51 improves on the Headsix in it's bass and treble extension, soundstage size and imaging, clarity and energy (although power is similar).  These are all nice warm full sounding amps.  Where the Pico Slim differs is in it's slightly increased refinement and deeper soundstage, while being slightly less aggressive sounding than the P-51.  Power level with full size phones is a bit less however.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Thanks Rob - I am prepared to ignore size and price when you consider that you simply can't put most fullsize amps in your backpack and set them up in a hotel room or on your desk at work. I'm sure someone out there has a monster tube amp on his (workplace) desk, but I would put that up there with those folk who seem compelled to have a fishtank and a fernery on their desks. The difference is that you dont get asked to feed someone's amp while they are on leave


 

 Hmmmm.  Size vs Price vs Sound Quality vs Power vs Battery Life - I think that you can only pick two or three in your favor.  
   
  Some examples would be...
   
  Tiny size + small price + decent power = decent sounding T3
  Not as Tiny + good sound + decent power = mid-price Headsix
  Tiny again + great sound + just enough power = high price Pico Slim
  Not as Tiny + great sound + more power than Slim = just as high price P-51
  Smallish size + great sound + even moar power = even higher priced Protector
  Big size + Huge Price + bad battery life = fantastic sounding Lisa III
   
  As the others all have good battery life, it seems like the only thing going for the Lisa III is sound quality.  
  No, I'm not doing this for every amp I've heard, sorry.


----------



## Tinola

You should...
  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Armaegis

If you don't care about battery, the Ortofon HD-Q7 is a very small desktop amp with plenty of juice behind it.


----------



## Tinola

Is it portable? nope
  
  Quote: 





armaegis said:


> If you don't care about battery, the Ortofon HD-Q7 is a very small desktop amp with plenty of juice behind it.


----------



## Armaegis

Hence why I said "if you don't care about battery". Consider it "transportable".


----------



## swbf2cheater

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info!  My budget is exactly $165 now,  and I've decided to give the MiniBox E+ a go.  It seems like the safest bet for me and one that will cause the least stress later if I choose to resell my earbuds.  I chose the new Final Audio earbuds first, which are 16ohm and Im sure they will scale up just like the Sennheiser MX980s do at the same rating.  
  The minibox seems to have a better stage size, and my plan of action was to try the new FAs and if I disliked them, try the 150 ohm Sunrise Charms, and if I disliked them as well then I would go back to what I know I loved in the Mx980, which has a huge stage.  Doesn't seem like the headsix is the best choice for me right now.
   
  Im sure the minibox and the headsix are both more than sufficient in clarity to be used with the cheaper earbuds, but it seems the minibox is the better choice of the two due to its stage size.  Of course I want the RSA recommended by a few users here, but its too expensive for me right now and seems like audio overkill to be used with cheaper earbuds


----------



## Guidostrunk

I dunno, i think the headsix is a great amp and can be had on the forum for around 80 bucks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 which is very hard to beat at that price.I don't think the soundstage on the headsix is that bad either. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## swbf2cheater

I gathered as much but I found a few people willing to sell a minibox E+ to me, and not one was willing to sell the Headsix lol :{
   
  the stage definitely isn't bad and clarity is likely just as good as the minibox e, but I know the minibox stage to be noticeably more wide than the Headsix, so that is a big factor when using headphones known for stage size.  I would love to have either or and if someone comes along willing to sell their XXS or headsix to me for 80-100, I'll definitely take that instead.


----------



## Guidostrunk

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/509357/fs-meier-audio-corda-headsix-black  this may be available.


----------



## swbf2cheater

ohh! i appreciate that! I pmed him, hopefully that guy didnt sell it


----------



## Guidostrunk

Anything to help a fellow head-fier. People have helped me in the past. Cheers friend
  Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> ohh! i appreciate that! I pmed him, hopefully that guy didnt sell it


----------



## cooperpwc

The Headsix is indeed a lovely little amp and the value proposition is near impossible to beat. That being said, the Stepdance takes the air in the soundstage to the next level with the ES5. For me, there is no going back. I actually prefer the Stepdance form factor with the iMod. Battery life however is another story...

All this talk of the Mustang is telling me that I should spend some more time with it...


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

No love for Ibasso? Many people prefer the Toucan to the Protector and it does have significantly more power at less than half the price. It is also fully balanced, and the Protector is only single ended in. You can even buy a portable balanced DAC to go with it, the Boomslang. The Toucan has been compared to the Lisa III and found comparable, but much less fatiguing to listen to.
   
  For single ended power from Ibasso, there is the P4, which outputs 600mw per channel, even more than the Mustang I imagine, again for much less money at $245. That much power will pretty much power any phone near its limits. Finally, the D4 or D12 are very capable amps with good DACs inside them, again for reasonable prices. 
   
  I guess the one disadvantage all these amps have in common are the size. They are pretty big, like an Ipod classic only twice as thick. Review Headphoneaddicts rule above, but I still think they are a good deal.


----------



## swbf2cheater

he sold it NUUUUUUUUUU
   
  *rocks back and forth in the corner twitching


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> he sold it NUUUUUUUUUU
> 
> *rocks back and forth in the corner twitching


 

 Look how long it had been posted. Run full speed into the wall a couple of times, you'll be fine. This is all an illusion anyway. Nothing is real, nothing exists . . . . .
   
   
  well the amp did but you missed it. 
   
  I am listening to a fi.Q that that turns up the heat on anything that is called portable. There's always hope and the Pope.


----------



## swbf2cheater

lol <3


----------



## i_djoel2000

@skylab: aren't you going to review FA Mistify?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> @skylab: aren't you going to review FA Mistify?


 


  I don't plan to, no.  I'm going to post the review of the Triad Audio L3 in a few minutes, and them I'm going to review the RSA SR71B.  At this point, I intent that to be my last portable amp review, and I will focus my head-fi reviewing efforts on other headphone gear.


----------



## Skylab

*Triad Audio L3*

 Info: Welcome to TriadAudio.net

 I got the opportunity to review the updated, slightly smaller version of the Lisa III, which is called the L3.  The L3 is a tiny bit smaller than the original Lisa III, but not much.  It’s still bigger and heavier than any other amp in this roundup.   But a few good things have happened.  One is that there are now both RCA inputs and a front mini-jack input.  This is good for a portable amp.
   
  It should be noted that what I reviewed is a pre-production unit.  While I have been told the circuitry will not change at all, I have been informed that a slightly smaller and lighter chassis will be used in the production version.
   
  Some pics, nonetheless:
   






*Build Quality*: A: big and heavy, but well built, for sure.  Again, can't comment too much on the case, ans it will change. Having both RCA and mini-jacks is nice. There was only the very slightest turn-on transient. 
   
*Treble*: A+: The treble is very clean, extended, airy, sweet, detailed…it’s really a pleasure.  The trick here is the combination of sweetness, delicacy, and detail.  A hard trick to muster, and it’s just special on the L3.  It’s one area in which it’s a little better than the Meier Stepdance.

*Midrange*: A+: Again, the L3 is pretty special here.  The midrange is open, lush, inviting, and very transparent. It’s not the least bit grainy, or opaque.  It is just slightly lush, and a tiny bit romantic, but not in a way that seems colored.  Still, it seems just ever so slightly less neutral, in the strictest sense, than the Meier Stepdance.  But you wouldn’t kick it out of bed for eating crackers, I can assure you.  The midrange is beguiling.  Alison Krauss's ultra-delicate vocals on "It Doesn't Matter" come across in an incredibly lifelike way.

*Bass:* A+: The incredibly well implemented bass contour control is one of the nicest features of this amp.  The user can choose the bass weight.  And since the bass quality is excellent - it's well defined, tight, and has outstanding "speed" and attack – you get outstanding performance in just the amount of weight you prefer, or your headphones need.  A little extra bass helped the Beyer t50p immensely.   And the L3’s bass is as deep as your headphones can go.  The flexibility here, married to the outstanding quality, is really something I wish all portable amps had. The ultra-deep synth on The Corrs "The Right Time" is reproduced in full measure, and with a breathtaking robustness.

*Neutrality:* A: I struggle with the rating here.  With the bass contour knob, the slightly sweet treble, the lightly lush mids – is the L3 really “neutral”?  Thing is, when you listen, it sounds incredibly natural, and you don’t hear anything you’d ever call a coloration.  But I think the Meier Stepdance is slightly more neutral, strictly speaking.

*Soundstaging:* A+: The soundstage is outstanding, with a depth and definition that I found very addictive.  In reading my original Lisa III review, it seems to me that whatever circuitry changes occurred in the L3 (and there were some, according to Phil Larocco) have helped the L3 in this regard.  The image realism on the L3 is palpable.  I could really get an amazing sense of the hall on"Little Sadie" from the recent Jerry Garcia / John Kahn acoustic release, where you have just acoustic guitar, stand-up bass, and Garcia signing.  But the sense of the two of them in a real space was pretty impressive.

*Transparency:* A+: Absolutely grain and veil free.  As transparent as you could hope for.
   
  My original review of the Lisa III is more than 3 years ago.  It’s been more than two years since I had heard one.  And I was reminded, on auditioning the L3, just how very special this amp is.  I gave up on it due to the size and weight, but for people who just want ONE amp, meaning no home amp, the L3 may just be the very best choice there is out there – powerful enough to drive even the LCD-2, and with some authority, I might add, and competitive with some home amps, in a batter powered form factor that is, at the least, highly “transportable”.  The L3 really is a special amp.  It certainly remains in the top tier of amps on this list.
   
  I am going to compare it to the RSA SR71B next week, and compare the two of them again to the Meier Stepdance, which in a kind of cool way will mean I will end my portable amp review monster with a face-off of true top-tier performers.  Lucky me!


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## cooperpwc

Another great review. (I will wait for the shoot out.)


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## rasmushorn

I loved the LISA III very much when I had it. I just did not think it did the job with the T1 so it had to leave me to help finance the Concerto.
  But I really miss it and maybe the L3 could be the portable companion to the Concerto...or maybe the Stepdance? I am looking forward to read the face-off.


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## Tinola

PLease review the P4 warbler 
  That'd be great


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## moodyrn

Another great review. Headfi wouldn't be the same without you.


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## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> AAnother great review. Headfi wouldn't be the same without you.






Thanks man!

Oh and just a clarification, since someone else asked - I'm still planning to write lots of reviews on head-fi! Just not portable amps


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## dallan

Skylab, do you know it the DC input uses the same LLP power supply that the Lisa lll does?


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## Skylab

Sure looks the same, but I can't say for sure since I haven't had the Lisa III in quite a while.


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## CEE TEE

@Skylab, this will be the way to end your Portable Round-up.  *With a Shoot-out!*  Should be epic...
   
  Thank you!!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am going to compare it to the RSA SR71B next week, and compare the two of them again to the Meier Stepdance, which in a kind of cool way will mean I will end my portable amp review monster with a face-off of true top-tier performers.  Lucky me!


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## dallan

Thanks and thanks for all the time you give to the reviews, i have used them thru the years to base my purchases.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks man!Oh and just a clarification, since someone else asked - I'm still planning to write lots of reviews on head-fi! Just not portable amps


 

 First, with regard to the final shoot out, please please please make sure Ray or someone send you an adaptor so you can use balance source on the SR71B for that is what the SR71B is meant for.  Otherwise, it will defeat the purpose of the SR71B.  Please don't have another Toucon like review though I don't mind to hear your thoughts on the SE input but the balance in are the main concern as I believe that's the case for many others here.  
   
  Second, in your L3 review you didn't mention about how long the L3 has been used (or burn-in), even though some of us here don't care about burn-in, it will be nice to know for those of us that believe in it especially for the SR71B.
   
  Third, I respect your decision of not doing any further portable amp review based on personal preference, but you are the resident authority on portable amp and with your vast experience on portable amp review it is a big lost to most of us that are interested in good portable amps.  I don't know how many newbies you have helped because of this thread.  I can understand the reason you stated  for all the average portable amps but would you care to leave a small reservation for some future breakthrough products that may compete with or even best the top tier amps in your listing?   A man can never say never, right?  Certainly you are not obligated to us, it is us that owe you a big thanks.


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## Skylab

Ray did include a cable to use the SR71B with a balanced source, and I have a balanced DAC, so that's all good. 

the L3 was very well traveled before I got it, so fully burned in.

And of course I will never say never, especially for really exciting/breakthrough type products. But I'm not going to review another dozen amps a year 

Thanks for the kind words, also


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## Roscoeiii

Skylab, 
   
  Can you speak to the power of the L3, and its ability to drive difficult to drive headphones? Sufficient to power HE-5LEs? I am guessing not sufficient for the HE-6s, (and the ability of the SR71B to do this is a pretty great testament to this portable amp).


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## Skylab

I didn't have the HE-5LE's anymore to try.  And no, not enough for HE-6, but plenty for the LCD-2.  Hope that helps.


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## estreeter

Rob, I know you have had a thousand variations on this question, but I find it interesting that we now have several headphones which are harder to drive than the K701, but I can get a good deal on said headphone - sufficiently good to consider purchasing it *if* I can amp the thing. I know its not about volume, its about air - including the transportables, would you be able to list the amps which you feel could push the 701 to 85-90% of its potential (or anything in that ballpark) ?  If you think its a fools errand, please say so - better to be a fool with money in his wallet than a fool with another 'almost good enough' portable amp.
   
  For the sake of argument, 100% would be the best fullsize amp you've heard 
   
  Thanks,
   
  estreeter


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## Skylab

I'm not the right person to answer that question - haven't owned the K701 in years.  Sorry!


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## GeorgeGoodman

[size=medium]estreeter,
   
  From what I have read, the Toucan could probably get close on a budget, as it has more voltage swing peak to peak (26.2v in balanced mode) than a lot of home amps. $229.
   
  Of course, the SR-71B has an even higher power output (around 30v p-p) and probably an even better sound. I listened to it driving the HE-6s well, with plenty of air. I am pretty much a noob as far as what the HE-6 can sound like, but I would say it was at least as good as HiFiman's own EF5 desktop amp. $600 preorder.
   
  Of course, the K701 is notoriously hard to drive and have synergy. These are just amps that will definitely get the job done power wise. They are both balanced, and single ended only provides half the power, so take that into account.
   
  Just a few suggestions to get you going.​[/size]


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## estreeter

Thanks guys - I believe that the P4 has also had good reviews re power output, but the other options seem to include the cost of going balanced - somewhat negates any cost savings I might make initially. If the reality is that the Corda Concerto, or similar, is the minimum for the K701 singled-ended, then I may as well accept that upfront.


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## GeorgeGoodman

Look around an ask some people that have used the balanced portables. They get pretty good reviews. They will always have compromises, but it looks like portables are getting a little closer to desktop amps. 
   
  I would definitely go to a meet and see what you can find out from listening and asking, especially before you spend hundreds of dollars. I am sure you know this, but the difference between different dollar levels of components are often overstated to get the point across and you may find something you like that doesn't break the bank. 
   
  As for the deal on the K701s, I would snatch it up if you want it. I have let too many deals slip through my fingers by stupidity. Sure, you can always find deals on stuff, it just might be a very long time. As it is always said, gear brings in pretty good prices in the for sale forums here if you don't like something.


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## novacav

hey skylab, i'm looking forward to the shoot-out, should be awesome! i do have one question though, will the toucan be included in it's balanced form? i'm not sure if you saw, but ibasso has some xlr to hirose adapter cables on their site now, and they're not too pricey. i mean you probably don't want to pay for cables just to do a review... but maybe they will come in handy some day for future ibasso balanced amps or something. either way thanks for all your hard work over the years, it's been a pleasure reading!


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## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





novacav said:


> hey skylab, i'm looking forward to the shoot-out, should be awesome! i do have one question though, will the toucan be included in it's balanced form? i'm not sure if you saw, but ibasso has some xlr to hirose adapter cables on their site now, and they're not too pricey. i mean you probably don't want to pay for cables just to do a review... but maybe they will come in handy some day for future ibasso balanced amps or something. either way thanks for all your hard work over the years, it's been a pleasure reading!


 

 X2.
   
  I think Skylab mentioned he borrowed a head-fier's Toucan to do the review. Maybe that person will be generous again. Many people say this amp can go toe to toe with the top performers. Hack, you rated it tier 3 single ended.


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## Bysm

Thanks Skylab for this great compilation, and squeezing my wallet dry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  off to eat myself now


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## estreeter

Clearly, I'm either blind or I dont know what 'balanced' output means - I had thought that it revolved around a single XLR output for each channel, but the Toucan/Boomslang combination seems to make do with a single connection. When I look at the output on the HRT Streamer Pro or the Grace M902, there are two outputs for balanced operation. Anyone ?


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## Skylab

"Balanced" has a different exact meaning depending on whether we are talking about amps, DACs, or headphones. With headphones it typically refers to four wires rather than a common ground.


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## avid2010

Hi Skylab, I'm waiting patiently for the great shoot out between the 3 amps. I have the Stepdance and I am looking out for the SR-71B as the next upgrade to a balanced setup.
   
  However I do not have the funds to completely changed all my cables to balanced so some will have to remain single-ended for a longer period of time. 
   
  Therefore I am interested to find out how the SR-71B single ended output compare to the Stepdance's. Could you give us a short impressions of this setup when reviewing the 3 amps? Thanks!!


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## GeorgeGoodman

I really think the Toucan should be in the shootout. It has plenty of reviews saying it is as good as the amps you are reviewing. One person compared it to the Lisa III and said power and impact wise they were about equal but the Toucan was much less fatiguing to listen to. I think it would make the comparison that much more exciting if the Toucan was involved.


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## Skylab

Will do my best to accommodate both requests.


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## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks in advance for doing whatever you are able to do.


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## audiophilefreak

great review, considering some....


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## cooperpwc

Quote:


estreeter said:


> Clearly, I'm either blind or I dont know what 'balanced' output means - I had thought that it revolved around a single XLR output for each channel, but the Toucan/Boomslang combination seems to make do with a single connection. When I look at the output on the HRT Streamer Pro or the Grace M902, there are two outputs for balanced operation. Anyone ?


 

 Four wires are used for balanced: a drive wire plus a separate ground for each channel. The original Headroom design used two 3 pin XLR plugs, one per channel, with the third pins not used. Now we are seeing a single 4 pin plug being used in some designs like the Toucan and Protector (which actually use different types of 4 pin plugs). The systems are all cross-compatible with adaptors as they all use the same 4 wires as above..


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## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> estreeter said:
> ...


 
   
  Isn't balanced a positive and negative signal and the ground is optional or something? Balanced refers to the electrical current that is balanced because the positive and negative signal cancel each other out so interference is very low. It was developed for use in recording studios where long cable runs to single ended (unbalanced) phones would introduce interference into the signal. With balanced, the two signals cancel each other out and there is extremely low interference. Balanced works like a push pull on a diaphragm of a headphone, single ended is just push.


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## Skylab

georgegoodman said:


> Balanced works like a push pull on a diaphragm of a headphone, single ended is just push.






I'm sorry buddy, but I can't let that go without comment. That simply is not accurate. If you only pushed the headphone driver, you would have no sound. Balanced has absolutely nothing to do with this.


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## violinvirtuoso

@Skylab
   
  Just an FYI, I think you spelled Triad wrong on the Tier List. It says Trian.


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## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm sorry buddy, but I can't let that go without comment. That simply is not accurate. If you only pushed the headphone driver, you would have no sound. Balanced has absolutely nothing to do with this.


 


 Don't headphones work by pushing the driver out and then the tension of the driver pulls it back in place? The balancing circuit just helps pull the driver back more precisely. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is my understanding of how speakers work.


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## ianmedium

Skylab, I am waiting with baited breath for your face off review!
   
  It is in the main due to your review that I went the whole Hog and got the Stepdance, a decision, as each day passes, that turns out to be one of the best I have made in HiFi!
   
  Your description of the stepdance was outstanding in it's accuracy. Everything you said about it has shown itself to be true, I could not be happier! Your thoughtful reviews have helped me have a system that has re-introduced me to the joys of music and after all is that not what all this is about!
   
  Which ever one of the three comes top of the tree does not matter, all three are at the peak of their excellence and whichever one chooses to purchase I know the owner will be very happy indeed!
   
  You really are a great asset to this forum.I not only purchased my amp based on your review but also my Denon headphones based on your thoughts. I think you are one of the clearest most accurate reviewers in HiFi today!
   
  Thank you!


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## Armaegis

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Balanced drive gives more "power" and helps to reject line noise, but in terms of affecting the driver mechanically it is no different than normal.


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## Skylab

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Skylab, I am waiting with baited breath for your face off review!
> 
> It is in the main due to your review that I went the whole Hog and got the Stepdance, a decision, as each day passes, that turns out to be one of the best I have made in HiFi!
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you so much for the very kind words.  I will tell you already that the Stepdance is a VERY strong competitor in the shootout so far!
   
   
  Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Right - balancing does not work that way in terms of any impact on driver movement.  It's main benefit is in the possibility of lower noise.  Even in terms of providing more power, that's just an amp topology consideration.


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## ianmedium

Quote: 





> "Thank you so much for the very kind words.  I will tell you already that the Stepdance is a VERY strong competitor in the shootout so far!"
> 
> 
> I am very excited to see how this turns out! I am guessing that the RSA is going to be up to the usual excellent standards so will gain the same sort of marks. I am wondering if it is not a question of which is ultimately the best of the best but more of which one is best for ones individual applications.. But then again that is just guessing! This review is going to make great Christmas reading material up in the Rockies where I am heading for the Holidays!


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## swbf2cheater

I just wanted to say Ive been using the Headsix for a few days and its just beautiful and the only portable amp I've been happy with so far


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## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for correcting me, guys. I was wrong about the push pull thing.
   
  I am looking forward to the huge smackdown and hope you can include the Toucan!


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## estreeter

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> I am looking forward to the huge smackdown and hope you can include the Toucan!


 

 If the blurb Ray has written for the SR71B is anything to go by, there is more than a little pride on the line here. I know more power doesnt necessarily equate to better sound, but tell that to those Head-Fiers who are obsessed with voltage swing.


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## musedesign

Thank you ! Thank you!  for the amazing reviews. 
   
After lots of research, ordering the iBasso D4 (Christmas gift to myself).  Can you make a recommendation for an IEM to pair with the D4?  (less than $150) 
   

 Etymotic Research HF2 Earphones ($149)?
 Fischer Audio DBA-02 ($150)?
 Westone UM1($109)?
 Other ??
   
Thanks!


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## Skylab

Quote: 





musedesign said:


> Thank you ! Thank you!  for the amazing reviews.
> 
> After lots of research, ordering the iBasso D4 (Christmas gift to myself).  Can you make a recommendation for an IEM to pair with the D4?  (less than $150)
> 
> ...


 

 I personally am not an IEM guy, so I am not the right person for that.


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## Skylab

Note that I have posted my RSA SR-71B review here
   
  The rankings in the OP have been updated.
   
  I will now turn to the final comparison


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## GeorgeGoodman

I wait with baited breath. Can you say "Epic?"


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## Avi

Epic, indeed!
   
  Oh great reviewer who shares his wisdom with us unwashed masses, may we beseech thee to review the RSA SR-71A? This unworthy one is considering upgrading from the Hornet "M" and wants to benefit from your wisdom and experience


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## estreeter

Sensational - apologies, Rob, but I have to paste the final 'Tier 1' ranking:
   
  Level 1:
   
  Triad Audio Lisa III @ $600.00; Power supply is $350 additional/ Triad Audio L3 (newer version) Review here
  MST Fi.Quest, @ $450 (Review here)
  Meier Audio Stepdance @ $350 (Review here)
  Ray Samuels Audio SR-71B @ $600 (Review here)
  Ray Samuels Audio The Protector (in BALANCED mode only), @ $475 (Review here)
   
  I dont know who the main designer is at MST, but its clear that Phil, Ray and Jan have been at the top of their game for years - you just dont take a couple of electronics classes and start throwing together amps like this. Sad for the rest of this, but kudos to these guys. Keep those amps coming.


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## wdahm519

How come no Total Airhead/BitHead review comparisons as well?  They're fairly popular.


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## rasmushorn

Quote: 





wdahm519 said:


> How come no Total Airhead/BitHead review comparisons as well?  They're fairly popular.


 

  
  It is not up to me to decide but am sorry it makes no sense to spend time on the AirHead/Bithead in this thread. They are IMHO not even close to being as good as the majority of the other amps reviewed in this thread. The Total Bithead was my first portable amplifier some years ago and it wasn't a keeper. As soon as some of the other competitors came in I sold it. The Headsix (same price) is way better.


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## musedesign

Quote:


musedesign said:


> Thank you ! Thank you!  for the amazing reviews.
> 
> After lots of research, ordering the iBasso D4 (Christmas gift to myself).  Can you make a recommendation for an IEM to pair with the D4?  (less than $150)
> 
> ...


 

 Skylab, How about headphones?  In the same price range.  I will use the iBasso D4 and iphone while traveling, so as long as the headphones are not to big, for me, soundstage is most important, so headphones are a good solution.  Thanks!


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## coolcat

besides the Stepdance,I was really impressed by the MST fi quest and thank god it is in  the "Tier1",that makes the people take a look at them.


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## wdahm519

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Sorry but the Headsix is $185, while the Total BitHead is $120.  I'd say thats a pretty substantial price jump for some here, especially considering some buy the $120 BitHead when shopping for a $100 amp, not a $150 amp.  At one point in time the BitHead was about $180 as well, however I think the current price reflects a much better bargain for your dollar.
   
  Just saying, but whatever.  Its no big deal.


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## Skylab

Quote: 





rasmushorn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was not very impressed with the Total Airhead when I had one.  This was several years ago, however.  I have asked several times to receive other Headroom amps for review, including the Microamp, and they have never agreed to supply one.  So that is why they have not had amps reviewed here - they haven't wanted to, clearly.
   


  Quote: 





musedesign said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> musedesign said:
> ...


 

 I'm so sorry but headphones in this price range are not really my area of expertise anymore, either, but I did once write this:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/250041/review-5-sub-150-sealed-headphone-compared
   


  Quote: 





coolcat said:


> besides the Stepdance,I was really impressed by the MST fi quest and thank god it is in  the "Tier1",that makes the people take a look at them.


 

 The fi.Quest is most definitely a Tier 1 amp.  I was very impressed by it.


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## Armaegis

Does anyone know if Meier will be releasing another portable dac/amp soon? (for that matter, when was the 3move discontinued?)


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## kingpage

Any chance of reviewing the relatively new dac/amp FiiO E7 if you could borrow it from someone? I would really appreciate such comparison against the other ones; no one has a more comprehensive list than you do.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





kingpage said:


> Any chance of reviewing the relatively new dac/amp FiiO E7 if you could borrow it from someone? I would really appreciate such comparison against the other ones; no one has a more comprehensive list than you do.


 

 Hehehe, please read the last few pages.  But your Fiio E7 may be a year late and and two tiers too low,   Sky is done reviewing the average amp for now.


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## Skylab

Yup - sorry, no more portable amp reviews after the high-end showdown upcoming. I want to focus on reviewing other headphone gear for a while.


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## kingpage

Thanks.


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## ianmedium

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup - sorry, no more portable amp reviews after the high-end showdown upcoming. I want to focus on reviewing other headphone gear for a while.


 

 When do you think you will be ready to publish the review (he says chomping at the bit!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


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## Jalo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup - sorry, no more portable amp reviews after the high-end showdown upcoming. I want to focus on reviewing other headphone gear for a while.


 

 Sky, After 201 pages of portable amp reviews and comments, which encompass the beginning of my journey into portable audio and as I reflect upon this journey/thread as it nears the end, there are really only two regrets that I have with many hours of enjoyment.  The first being the missing balance cable to fully appreciate/evaluate/compare the Toucan as a balance amp and its potential, and the second is the unavailability of a common headphone by which you can compare across the the three amps: SR71B, Stepdance and the L3.  Yes, I know I can do it myself and listen to them and decide for myself or as you said, other reviewer will have to do it.  But you are a part of the equipment and a constant also, it's like watching the NBA final but the 7th game cannot be played because of some technicality, or watching American idols without the last episode, or three quarters of the Superbowl.  Though I will be glad to overnite you my balance ALO LCD cable so you can use the same phone for all three amps (I know you have the SE ALO LCD cable), but I feel you are just happy to leave it at that.


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## rasmushorn

Quote: 





wdahm519 said:


> Sorry but the Headsix is $185, while the Total BitHead is $120.  I'd say thats a pretty substantial price jump for some here, especially considering some buy the $120 BitHead when shopping for a $100 amp, not a $150 amp.  At one point in time the BitHead was about $180 as well, however I think the current price reflects a much better bargain for your dollar.
> 
> Just saying, but whatever.  Its no big deal.


 

 Yeah you are right. The Headsix is more expensive. I did not mean to be rude. I just see this thread as being about finding the BEST of portable amps - price is not an issue in here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  May I suggest that you open a new thread or do a search for comparisons on the BitHead / AirHead.


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## Skylab

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> When do you think you will be ready to publish the review (he says chomping at the bit!


 
   
  Quote: 





jalo said:


> Sky, After 201 pages of portable amp reviews and comments, which encompass the beginning of my journey into portable audio and as I reflect upon this journey/thread as it nears the end, there are really only two regrets that I have with many hours of enjoyment.  The first being the missing balance cable to fully appreciate/evaluate/compare the Toucan as a balance amp and its potential, and the second is the unavailability of a common headphone by which you can compare across the the three amps: SR71B, Stepdance and the L3.  Yes, I know I can do it myself and listen to them and decide for myself or as you said, other reviewer will have to do it.  But you are a part of the equipment and a constant also, it's like watching the NBA final but the 7th game cannot be played because of some technicality, or watching American idols without the last episode, or three quarters of the Superbowl.  Though I will be glad to overnite you my balance ALO LCD cable so you can use the same phone for all three amps (I know you have the SE ALO LCD cable), but I feel you are just happy to leave it at that.


 

 Interesting to have these two posts next to each other.  I have decided to postpone the shoot-out until I can get a balanced cable for my LCD-2, so that I can use one headphone to listen to all three amps with, including the SR-71B balanced and unbalanced.


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## wht

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This, I await with eagerness, especially since you will be using the LCD-2 for the comparison. Thanks.


----------



## Avi

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup - sorry, no more portable amp reviews after the high-end showdown upcoming. I want to focus on reviewing other headphone gear for a while.


 
   
  Understood; do have idea as to how the SR-71A would compare with the SR-71 though? Once again, thanks for all your fantastic work and clear write-ups.


----------



## ianmedium

Quote: 





> Interesting to have these two posts next to each other.  I have decided to postpone the shoot-out until I can get a balanced cable for my LCD-2, so that I can use one headphone to listen to all three amps with, including the SR-71B balanced and unbalanced.


 

 This I understand completely and the choice to use a single headphone in both balanced and unbalanced configuration  can only go to make an even more compelling review I think!
  Also, from what I have read elsewhere the LCD2 makes a perfect reference headphone to give those of us who own other headphones a better idea of the overall end effect on our headphones.
   
  Even more interesting will be your thoughts on Dr Meier's active balanced ground which, from what I have read, is meant to give a similar effect to having balanced cables. Now you will be comparing that with an actual balanced configuration it will prove to make interesting reading.. I know I am biased owning the Stepdance but my intiuition tells me the Stepdance will pull a few suprises out of the hat when it comes to comparing it with the SR in balanced mode!
   
  Thank you once again Rob for all the effort and time you are putting into this!


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sky, if you would like, please PM me your address. I'll fedex overnight today my ALO Chain Mail balance LCD2 cable to you and there is no pressure to return them until you are done.  You are the greatest.


----------



## ianmedium

That is a really generous offer jalo! Thank you for adding to the even more accurate review that will come from this loan!


----------



## Jalo

Sky, one more item, if you like I could even include the Protector for you to refresh your memory of the Protector.  Not another review since you already done it, just to refresh your memory so you have the Protector side by side.  Guys, this is the "Final Fantasy" of portable amp.  At least at this moment in time.  The greatest year end party for portable amp where only the toughest are invited and only the strongest can survive--L3, Stepdance, SR71B, Protector.  My contribution is nothing compare to what Sky has done.  Now if only Mrarroyo or someone can come up with a Hirose to XLR adaptor for the Toucan, then we can put all the fire out.
   
  Though it is only a hobby for many of us, but with what Sky has done, he has bought focus onto portable amp and it will set a standard for future amps to match or to exceed.  I consider it a big contribution to portable amp.  Can't say enough thanks for that.


----------



## ianmedium

jalo said:


> Sky, one more item, if you like I could even include the Protector for you to refresh your memory of the Protector.  Not another review since you already done it, just to refresh your memory so you have the Protector side by side.  Guys, this is the "Final Fantasy" of portable amp.  At least at this moment in time.  The greatest year end party for portable amp where only the toughest are invited and only the strongest can survive--L3, Stepdance, SR71B, Protector.  My contribution is nothing compare to what Sky has done.  Now if only Mrarroyo or someone can come up with a Hirose to XLR adaptor for the Toucan, then we can put all the fire out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





 


Here Here! Rob's reviews are for me like Ken Kessler or the late and much missed John Crabbe's reviews from Britains excellent magazine Hifi news. Always accurate, always engrossing and have always led me to excellent purchasing decisions!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for the very generous offer, but I'm ordering stock balanced cables from Audeze, and that way I can use my stock SE cable as part of the review.
   
  I'm going to pass on the Protector - I have to draw the line somewhere or this will become so epic I will never finish it


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks for waiting to get the balanced cable. Any chance you might be able to use the Toucan balanced? As Jalo said, maybe  Mrarroyo or Hiflight would be willing to loan you an adapter for the Toucan.


----------



## Gorthon

Skylab I sent you a PM with an offer to use my gear for the review if you like.  It includes a APureSound recabled RS1 terminated with a RSA plug.  I also have an adapter to connect it to the Toucan.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





gorthon said:


> Skylab I sent you a PM with an offer to use my gear for the review if you like.  It includes a APureSound recabled RS1 terminated with a RSA plug.  I also have an adapter to connect it to the Toucan.


 

 Hehehe, looks like you may need to throw in a bottle of wine before he'll take your offer.


----------



## estreeter

Guys, can I implore you to allow Rob to finish this comparison, please ?  I really think he GETS the request for balanced vs balanced by now ....


----------



## Captfantastic

Merry Christmas to all !
   
  It's been a great year following this topic through the year.   I did a lot of traveling (over 22,000 miles in the last three months) and my Total Bithead served me very well indeed.
   
  May you all have at least one portable amp of your dreams by this time next year! 
   
  Happy New Year too!


----------



## musedesign

> > Quote:
> >
> >
> > musedesign said:
> ...


 
  Skylab,
    Thank you, Thank you, your reviews are always great!  Your comparison of $150 sealed headphones, is just what I was looking for!


----------



## Pliskin44

Hi I'd like to know which good portable DAC can i associate a RSA Protector for use with a PC with the following characteristics of listening :
 24/96 sources
 coaxial/optical inputs.
 Thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





pliskin44 said:


> Hi I'd like to know which good portable DAC can i associate a RSA Protector for use with a PC with the following characteristics of listening :
> 24/96 sources
> coaxial/optical inputs.
> Thanks.


 

 iBasso D10 based on your requirements (or D12 which I haven't tried yet).


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Any updates on the mega comparo? I can definitely wait if the Toucan is being included balanced or if there are plans to review the Ibasso PB2 coming out next week.


----------



## hedcase

Dear all at head-fi.org
   
  I have just read a 202 page thriller entitled 
   
 Portable amp roundup! 56 portable amps reviewed and compared - last update 12-20-10 added  Whilst not the snappiest of publication titles,  it was one of those very few ebooks that, once you pick up . you truly can't put down until finished. Sensational. So I have been looking for a paypal link to send appropriate payment to the author / publisher "Rob" and it appears this whole epic was produced...for free!!! Amazing. As a relative newbie, I cannot overestimate the value of this tome to me. 
   
  All those criticisms, all those "pick my amp", all those "what about with these phones / buds / tin cans and string weren't part of the script at all - they were from other users demanding attention and consideration. Without contribution!!!
   
  And all of this was a labour of love. I have never encountered such dedication to a cause - apart from my 27 attempts to win the bivouac badge with the Scouts.
  Rob, you are a legend. "Thank you" is entirely inadequate for what you have given me / us. 
   
  FYI, in the last three weeks,loaded with bonus and Xmas $,  I have purchased  BD 990 Pro (250) > mellowness and Phiaton 400 > treble akin to chalk skidding on a blackboard and the Arrow Amp > pending delivery. But I was so motivated by the ending of your thriller that I bought the Stepdance within minute of your conclusion. Funds are running low now but enthusiasm is stratospheric. Bloody well done as we say in (QLD) Australia. And thank you.


----------



## trentino

I agree Hedcase. The thread have helped a lot of people including myself and it is awesome. Other every day-posters like for example HPA, Jamato and HiFlight (and many others) deserves the same appreciation for answering questions and doing requested comparisions all the time.


----------



## blitz-dice

very nice review sir! I am looking of purchasing my first high end amp (i currently have FiiO E7) and this helps a lot.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Any updates on the mega comparo? I can definitely wait if the Toucan is being included balanced or if there are plans to review the Ibasso PB2 coming out next week.


 

 I'm very sorry about the delay here.  The holidays distracted me somewhat, but in all honestly the biggest distraction was the Xmas arrival of the Ultrasone Edition 10, which has proven to be both interesting and a little vexing. 
   
  Further, I am having trouble coming to meaningful conclusions in my comparison of the "Big Three".  They are all so very good, you see...
   


  Quote: 





remitrom said:


> Thanks for your years of efforts on this thread Skylab    "Balance" This term has confused me.  What it means depends on who you talk to.
> I am NOT an expert on the behavior of electrons. However Phil IS and I defer to his knowledge./ Phil's Lisa design Balances THREE  channels!
> That is why it is called Lisa  "III".  The new version L  "3" .And even our name  "TRIAD"   attempt to bring notice of this 3rd channel.  Yes there
> are 3 contacts on my head phone jacks. Phil drives them all !  This driven ground  costs  almost, 50% more parts and 50% more size..
> ...


 


  Interestingly, all of the "Big Three" as I am now calling them - the L3, the Stepdance, and the SR-71B, are "balanced" to some degree, depending on how you look at it.  The L3 and Stepdance use a variation of this "3rd channel" or "Balanced Ground" concept, and the SR-71B is completely balanced in terms of completely separate amplification chains.


  Quote: 





hedcase said:


> Whilst not the snappiest of publication titles,  it was one of those very few ebooks that, once you pick up . you truly can't put down until finished. Sensational.


 
   
  My pleasure!  Glad is has been helpful.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

No problem, Skylab! I have been following your Edition 10 impressions for fun, so I haven't missed out. I am sure the review will be great. Take all the time you need to make the big review a good one.


----------



## coolcat

I'm waiting for this final too and thank sky to lead me to buy the Stepdance.
   So I hope the Step Dance will win the battle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  But Actually I'm afraid, that balanced Sr71B is going to win this test.
  I feel the LCD2 is somehow power hungry and you know how powerful the SR71 B is. 
   
  thank again for all the great reviews here


----------



## Skylab

I can already tell you guys this much, although I hope it's not a let down: there is not going to be a clear "winner".


----------



## Armaegis

There never is. We'd have no need for these sort of threads otherwise


----------



## Jalo

My interest was never who wins or loses but rather what are the strength and weaknesses of each and their sound characters.


----------



## Skylab

Right, and that I am working on outlining.  Each has it's own areas of relative strength versus the other, is what I am finding, not surprisingly.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right, and that I am working on outlining.  Each has it's own areas of relative strength versus the other, is what I am finding, not surprisingly.


 

 Rob, without giving anything away, would you say these are subtle differences or large, easily noticeable diffs? of course the cans you're pairing them will influence this. i used to own the highly regarded xin supermicro 4 and while it could sound quite good, it didn't sound so nice driving k340s!


----------



## Skylab

The differences are generally pretty subtle.  But they're there. 
   
  One thing that is very clear to me - the Meier Stepdance wins in terms of price - performance...and loses in terms of battery life!


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The differences are generally pretty subtle.  But they're there.
> 
> One thing that is very clear to me - the Meier Stepdance wins in terms of price - performance...and loses in terms of battery life!


 

 I suspected that might be the case, Rob, and its easy for many here to dismiss battery life as 'low priority' when compared to SQ/power etc, but I got the distinct feeling in the iStreamer thread that it CAN be a deal breaker for those who are obsessed with finding the 'ultimate' portable rig.
   
  I was genuinely surprised by the extent to which some of us want it all - human nature, I guess, but I'm not sure how realistic that is when you start carrying *an iPad, a dedicated DAC, a headphone amp and a $1000 pair of IEMs* around just to listen to a few tunes on the way to work ....
   
  The concept of using a portable amp as part of a stationery bedside or office rig seemed lost on these folk, but that is the niche for the larger portables, IMO.


----------



## Skylab

Very true. Regardless of the outcome of this test, my portable rig will remain an iPod Nano (current gen) and the P51 Mustang - as it is incredibly small, light, and sounds great.


----------



## jamato8

The P51 is like having a Transformer hooked up to the JH13 Pro or the PortaPros. It is a small package that has plenty of kick to it.


----------



## hifimusiclover

This is post is classic!
  still helping me a lot on amps!
   
  btw, the slee voyage is a mystery
  hand built, not exceptionally expensive components, BUT
  beautiful sound!


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very true. Regardless of the outcome of this test, my portable rig will remain an iPod Nano (current gen) and the P51 Mustang - as it is incredibly small, light, and sounds great.


 

 Skylab, it is very interesting that you apparently find the Nano to be a good alternative to your iMod as a line out source!


----------



## Skylab

cooperpwc said:


> Skylab, it is very interesting that you apparently find the Nano to be a good alternative to your iMod as a line out source!





 


For portable use, IMO, it's plenty good enough for me, especially since that rig only gets used on airplanes - once I land, I use the iPad as the source.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For portable use, IMO, it's plenty good enough for me, especially since that rig only gets used on airplanes - once I land, I use the iPad as the source.


 


  Sky since I know you are not an iem guy, so what are you driving with the nano/p51 especially on an airplane?  If you don't mind to divert just a little bit, Is the ipad better than the nano6?


----------



## Armaegis

If possible, I would like to hear any notes on differences when working off battery vs power supply.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I actually do use IEM's on longer airplane flights - UE Triple Fi 10's.  On shorter flights I use the Beyer t50p.  They isolate just well enough on most planes for use for an hour or so.
   
  The iPad is a little better from it's line out than the Nano is.  Note that in both cases I am using the LOD connector, not the headphone out. But the main reason for going to the iPod when I land is the larger amount of music I have on it - 64GB iPad versus 16GB Nano...


----------



## Jalo

Thanks, Sky, we finally catch you using an iem


----------



## anm

hi Skylab - any impressions of ibasso d6?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





anm said:


> hi Skylab - any impressions of ibasso d6?


 


  No - have not heard one and I probably won't.  Sorry!


----------



## imackler

Skylab,
  I'm thinking of getting a lower end amp (sub $200). I've enjoyed reading through your reviews, particularly of some of the cheaper amps. What amp do you hear most recommended to accompany and compliment the Etymotic line of earphones? I haven't seen you make a specific reference to them, but I haven't read through the entire thread either 
  Thanks for any advice!


----------



## Skylab

Can't help there - no experience with Ety's.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Can't help there - no experience with Ety's.


 


  Thanks anyways! I've still got some ideas from your reviews of what may work well. This is an awesome thread!


----------



## kostalex

XIN Supermicro is best for Ety.
  TTVJ Millett Portable is the second best. ER-4S or Ety impedance adapter is recommended to remove tubes noise.
   
  Both are still available on FS: forums.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Skylab,
> I'm thinking of getting a lower end amp (sub $200). I've enjoyed reading through your reviews, particularly of some of the cheaper amps. What amp do you hear most recommended to accompany and compliment the Etymotic line of earphones? I haven't seen you make a specific reference to them, but I haven't read through the entire thread either
> Thanks for any advice!


 

 since the etys can be a bit on the light and lean side i'd suggest something with some warmth, punch,  and good bass response, such as Ray Samuels amps.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Skylab,
> I'm thinking of getting a lower end amp (sub $200). I've enjoyed reading through your reviews, particularly of some of the cheaper amps. What amp do you hear most recommended to accompany and compliment the Etymotic line of earphones? I haven't seen you make a specific reference to them, but I haven't read through the entire thread either
> Thanks for any advice!


 

 If I may, could I suggest a few amps that come to mind? The Ibasso T4 has bass boost and adjustable gain, so you might like that. It does not have the best reviews, however, as some have characterized it as dark. The Ibasso T3D has much better reviews and digital volume control. That is important for sensitive IEMs becasue there is no channel imbalance. I alos suggest looking in the for amplification for sale forum and just getting a good deal on something that is fairly well regarded on head-fi. You will get more that way. Happy listening!


----------



## kostalex

Some Ety fans respect MiniBox E+ also. It has bass boost, BTW.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

That sounds very good as well. The bass boost is probably very useful for Etys. Thanks, Kostalex. I knew there were a few more I didn't think of.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Really intrigued about the T3D. Is it more warm or neutral? I have a lot to learn about "channel imbalance." I've been checking on the FS forum!
  
  Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Some Ety fans respect MiniBox E+ also. It has bass boost, BTW.


 
   
  The MiniBox E+ does get a lot of love w/ the Etymotic ER4P/S. Have you heard about any major negatives against it? I think it has a more neutral flavor but I've heard it can make the highs kind of shrill.
  
  Quote: 





davederek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was kind of thinking of leaning away from something warm. I was afraid it would change the sound signature too much, but not ever having heard an amp, I'm not really sure!
   
  Thanks for all the advice! I don't want to hijack the thread!


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 the hornet sounds nice with my altec lansing im616s & im716s (both etys) as well as my ety mc5s. i wouldn't say it colors them, but it does bring them nicely to life!


----------



## kostalex

I've found some in anythingbutipod.com review, like loud power on/off pop. 
  
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> The MiniBox E+ does get a lot of love w/ the Etymotic ER4P/S. Have you heard about any major negatives against it?


----------



## imackler

I couldn't remember where I had read that, but you got it exactly. I had read that same review. But that was the first time I heard that complaint though...
   
  Quote: 





kostalex said:


> I've found some in anythingbutipod.com review, like loud power on/off pop.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

The Ibasso T3D is regarded as a neutral/bright amp, so you don;t have to worry about it being dark. The thing is, digital volume control is really good. I am beginning to want something with it as my analog pots all have some imbalance at low volumes. 
   
  One the other hand, an RSA Hornet is up for sale in the For sale forum, and it should outclass the T3D completely. I guess it comes down to how much you have to spend and how concerned you are about channel imbalance. At normal listening volume any imbalance disappears, but if you want to listen a little lower you might have problems.


----------



## anm

No problem Skylab. I come back to this thread many times as this is a wonderful thread. Since D6 is new, and quite close to my requirements functionally, I would have loved your opinion on it.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bennyboy71

Hey Skylab - when you gonna buy a Headstage Arrow and bin all those expensive bricks?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





bennyboy71 said:


> Hey Skylab - when you gonna buy a Headstage Arrow and bin all those expensive bricks?


 


  Right about never o'clock.


----------



## estreeter

Cmon,  people : Rob is currently in the process of writing his final comparison of portable amps. *Please allow him to finish this important work* - you may then return to your normal hi-jinks.
   
  estreeter, Commandant of the Thread Police


----------



## Skylab

LOL!

I'm actually really hoping to have this done this weekend. And then I am turning this thread over to all of the rest of you to post your own comparisons, but at least for the foreseeable future, my portable amp reviewing days will be over.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL!
> 
> I'm actually really hoping to have this done this weekend. And then I am turning this thread over to all of the rest of you to post your own comparisons, but at least for the foreseeable future, my portable amp reviewing days will be over.


 


  ...and that will be a sad day in Head-Fi history.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> ...and that will be a sad day in Head-Fi history.


 


  GD, he's writing a comparison of portable amps, not his own obituary 
   
  For those of us who aspire to something along the lines of a fullsize Luxman headphone amp further down the track, I suspect that Rob's high-end reviews will be even more enjoyable and enlightening.


----------



## GreatDane

...well, his review thread has been no less than EPIC. There were none like this before and probably none to follow. Rob does a fine job at both portable and desktop reviews so I know we haven't seen that last of him.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





greatdane said:


> ...well, his review thread has been no less than EPIC. There were none like this before and probably none to follow. Rob does a fine job at both portable and desktop reviews so I know we haven't seen that last of him.


 
   
  I hope you haven't hurt Larry's feelings. That said, HPA posted impressions of various amps in a multitude of threads, while Rob tended to keep his impressions to this thread, Stepdance notwithstanding. I agree that its a colossal effort.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I did decide to keep my portable amp reviews all consolidated here, although I did not do the same with my home amp or headphone reviews. I'm not really sure which is the better approach. This thread has a consistent methodology, which for portable amps I found appealing given the fairly minuscule feature differences. But the fact remains that in some ways it just isn't workable to have something like this go on this long and retain its value (as some folks have pointed out...). Many of the amps I reviewed early on are discontinued, or have been revved such that their ratings aren't all that relevant now. So that has been part of my thinking as to why this thread has kind of run its course.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Larry who? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
   
  Oh no, Larry cannot be forgotten either for his huge role in our pocket-emptying circus, his "drop-by" reviews are real nail bitters for sure....really, I'm not intending to leave out any of the top contributors in this field. 
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah I did decide to keep my portable amp reviews all consolidated here, although I did not do the same with my home amp or headphone reviews. I'm not really sure which is the better approach. This thread has a consistent methodology, which for portable amps I found appealing given the fairly minuscule feature differences. But the fact remains that in some ways it just isn't workable to have something like this go on this long and retain its value (as some folks have pointed out...). Many of the amps I reviewed early on are discontinued, or have been revved such that their ratings aren't all that relevant now. So that has been part of my thinking as to why this thread has kind of run its course.


 


 My feelings are that your review has run its course. Thread locked. Thank you very much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously folks...
   
  Yeah, this is like when Seinfeld decided to call it quits at the peak of his popularity... $5,000,000 per episode I think?? (CRAZY!!). I think you get $5 per review...or something like that.


----------



## imackler

Thanks for the advice all!
   
  PS. I've looked a bit here for a thread to help newbies on amp talk. If anyone has a recommendation of a thread/webpage w/ definitions of pots and channel balancing, can you pm me?
   
  I'm really looking forward to this compilation Skylab is cooking up!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Thanks for the positive comments, but I think that Skylab had a better routine and organization for his reviews than I have in my big USB DAC/amp review thread.  I feel like I tend to ramble on and do too many comparisons, while losing focus on the actual capabilities of the amp being reviewed.  It got to the point for me where when I review an amp I almost feel obligated to try every IEM and headphone that I have with them, and it's just not feasible anymore.  There are too many amp/IEM combinations to try them all these days.  It can be overwhelming, and I admire Rob for being able to keep tabs on his impressions of so many amps over the ages.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Don't be silly HA...your reviews and impressions are awesome.  I love your ramblings...much like any review I do too, in that I give impressions and comparisons rather than concrete data.  You keep it up, bruthaman.


----------



## Bennyboy71

Then you automatically disqualify yourself from the ace race my friend.  Come on, get with the program.  
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Armaegis

What's that? Is that the sound of you lending your Arrow to Skylab for review? How generous of you!


----------



## Golden Monkey

Skylab's got his reasons, and he'll never be reviewing any of Robert's amps, free loaners or not.  It's a decision I can understand and respect, but it's a shame because I think he'd really like it.


----------



## Bennyboy71

Really? I didn't know that, but that's fair enough and between Skylab and Robert.
   
  Interesting.  Still, yeah, its a real shame cos The Arrow is the best portable amp on the market at that price I reckon.
   
   
  Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Skylab's got his reasons, and he'll never be reviewing any of Robert's amps, free loaners or not.  It's a decision I can understand and respect, but it's a shame because I think he'd really like it.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Don't be silly HA...your reviews and impressions are awesome.  I love your ramblings...much like any review I do too, in that I give impressions and comparisons rather than concrete data.  You keep it up, bruthaman.


 

 Amen to that!!!!  I myself am a BIG fan of Larry's reviews.  Larry, I hope you will continue to review portable amps, since I'm begging out of that game.
   


  Quote: 





bennyboy71 said:


> Really? I didn't know that, but that's fair enough and between Skylab and Robert.
> 
> Interesting.  Still, yeah, its a real shame cos The Arrow is the best portable amp on the market at that price I reckon.
> 
> ...


 

 And at this point, as mentioned, I'm not planning to review ANY more portable amps - Headstage or otherwise.  IIRC, there are quite a few nice reviews done on the Headstage already.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Skylab's got his reasons, and he'll never be reviewing any of Robert's amps, free loaners or not.  It's a decision I can understand and respect, but it's a shame because I think he'd really like it.


 
  Quote: 





bennyboy71 said:


> Really? I didn't know that, but that's fair enough and between Skylab and Robert.
> Interesting.  Still, yeah, its a real shame cos The Arrow is the best portable amp on the market at that price I reckon.


 
   
  search out the thread about Robert ripping off, and then lying about it, Jan Meier's circuits for his amps.  he became persona non grata after this event several years ago, given his dubious ethical practices.  i have to wonder how original his current circuits are.  there are a number of excellent alternative choices out there, including Jan's designs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





davederek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know that after someone commented that they thought the Headstage Lyrix sounded very similar to an RSA Hornet that Ray examined one (at RMAF 2009) and found it to not be a copy if his amp.  I thought the mids on the Hornet sounded a little better/natural.  It also clearly sounded different from the Meier Headsix and 3MOVE, while an earlier product of Robert's was a circuit-clone of a previous Meier amp.  I've communicated with Robert a few times in 2007 and 2008, and he was apologetic and swore off that kind of shenanigans, hoping for a fresh start.  I don't think there have been any further issues since then.  I believe in giving people second chances.


----------



## estreeter

Hmm, I dont think Head-Fi is prepared to give a certain DAC/amp maker from the UK a second chance, but its all water under the bridge and Stanley didnt help his own cause. C'est La Vie.
   
  For those fond of intoning that the Arrow or one of the iBasso amps is the best portable on the planet, thats a tough call when most of us just wont have the opportunity to compare more than two or three amps - those of you who can attend meets are fortunate indeed.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Well, if there's anyone in the bay area interested in checking out an Arrow for themselves, let me know...it's a cool little box, lol.
   
  And HA, second chances indeed!  I think the whole past issue (between Robert and Jan) is a low point around here, but I honestly believe that neither side came away clean in that drama.  All I know is Robert continues to innovate, and is putting out a highly competitive and awesomely featured (and priced) little amp, and it really is a shame the way things ended up.  (not directing this at you, just thinking out loud, but) The ridiculous paranoia of saying one amp sounds suspiciously similar to another is just stupid in my book...in this very thread there's 56 different ones, but c'mon, really?  How different are any of the top ones from each other?  I'm sure there ARE diffs, but to 99% of listeners, they are mostly going to sound the same (or at least they should...everyone wants tho think they hear this or that, but...).
   
  And 'streeter, as far as the UK DAC maker, I don't think it was so much Stanley's product, but the unsavory practices and obvious shilling and competition slandering going on that sullied that particular reputation, lol.
   
  Anyway, sorry to stray off topic...


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Well, if there's anyone in the bay area interested in checking out an Arrow for themselves, let me know...it's a cool little box, lol.
> 
> And HA, second chances indeed!  I think the whole past issue (between Robert and Jan) is a low point around here, but I honestly believe that neither side came away clean in that drama.  All I know is Robert continues to innovate, and is putting out a highly competitive and awesomely featured (and priced) little amp, and it really is a shame the way things ended up.  (not directing this at you, just thinking out loud, but) The ridiculous paranoia of saying one amp sounds suspiciously similar to another is just stupid in my book...in this very thread there's 56 different ones, but c'mon, really?  How different are any of the top ones from each other?  I'm sure there ARE diffs, but to 99% of listeners, they are mostly going to sound the same (or at least they should...everyone wants tho think they hear this or that, but...).
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, Golden Monkey. How did Jan not 'come away clean in that drama'? Please back up your accusation with some details and analysis, or retract your libel.
   
  Let's hear what you got.


----------



## Skylab

Just to be perfectly clear on the topic - I'm not reviewing the Headstage Arrow because I don't want to review ANY more portable headphone amps.  I personally have nothing against Robert or Headstage - what happened in the past is in the past.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Quote: 





cooperpwc said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Woah, easy there cowboy...I'm not accusing anyone of anything, nor is what I said "libel"...all I'm saying is that the way the whole thing played out in public just made both of them look bad.  Nobody wants to read all the "you did this", "no, you did that", "no I didn't", "yes you did" crap. The "details" are there for all to see as a matter of public record, and there's no "analysis", since this isn't an equipment review or a legal case.  It's obvious to me from your gear list that you're a Jan fanboy, and that's fine as he makes fantastic equipment, but don't take your partisan stance out on me for making a completely neutral statement.  And lets let it die there, because I could care less "what you got".


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  It would be nice if it died there. I take no pleasure from this dreary exchange. Also I agree that everyone is entitled to a second chance; airing this further doesn't help. Unfortunately you chose not to provide the needed detail and analysis nor, in the alternative, to retract your comments (let alone apologise to the person you might have smeared). So your posts have to be placed in the correct context. 
   
  In short, Robert got caught in the amp designer equivalent of a cartographic trap. He copied false topography which was proof of his plagiarism. Jan brought this to the attention of the Head-Fi community which was broadly supportive, including many of Jan's MOT competitors that share his interest in protecting original design work. That is a simple summary but it is also, I believe, a fair one.
   
  In your second post above, you disparage "detail" and "analysis" but now their worth can be seen. Insinuations that could easily have been taken from your posts, rightly or wrongly, that there was a false accusation (there was none) or a countervailing dishonest act (there was none) melt away. Instead we are left with your equating  the plagiarism of another person's design with the bringing of that plagiarism to the attention of others.  On that basis, "neither side came away clean in that drama."
   
  Personally I think that your argument is absurd, representing the sloppiest kind of moral equivocation. However, now that the details of your argument are on the table and the context revealed, others can reach their own conclusions.
   
  That's what I got, Golden Monkey. Cowboy out.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Blah blah blah...ALL I meant was that they both looked like jerks for hashing their dispute out in public...just like us right now.  You've made your point, now just shut up.


----------



## Armaegis

I would like to hear thoughts on how these next gen portables stack up against full sized amps.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I would like to hear thoughts on how these next gen portables stack up against full sized amps.


 

 Yep, and I'm sure there are many others who would like to hear comparisons of various portable amps against the cheaper fullsize amps - Swing, LD, KICAS etc - but you end up spending $600-800 to buy a next-gen portable and a lower-end fullsize amp simply to be able to give Head-Fiers your impressions : *the same money could finance the Concerto*, by all accounts a seriously gifted fullsize amp.  For tube fans, thats WA6 money with a few bucks left over for new music to enjoy their amp with. Tough choice for all but the serious road warrior/bedside rig devotee.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

I am sure someone who already has one of those home amps is in the market for a nice portable. The Ibasso PB1, PB2, P4, and D6, the Meier Stepdance, and the MST Fi Quest and probably a few more are all very powerful and great sounding portable amps, by most accounts. Furthermore, most of them are all priced at $350 or significantly less. I have seen people state that the MST Fi Quest has much more power than their Woo tube amp, as well as similar comments for the balanced Ibasso portables. Many people on head-fi would not be starting from scratch. I don't see why you are so closed to the idea that a portable could be as good as a home amp, or to the idea that someone might want to compare the two.
  
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> I don't see why you are so closed to the idea that a portable could be as good as a home amp, or to the idea that someone might want to compare the two.


 
   
  I'm not 'closed' to either concept, but I am trying to remain realistic about what other HeadFiers would be prepared to spend $600-800 on. Sure, if someone already has the Swing/Caliente/whatever and buys one of the new portables, so much the better if they can give us their impressions. To date, I simply haven't seen any such impressions in any of the threads I have visited - happy to hear otherwise.
   
  As far as comparing a Woo amp with a portable purely on power output, I suspect you might like to run that past the legion of happy Woo owners on this board. For those of us with relatively easy-to-drive cans, its not our top criteria when assessing an amp.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Good points. I am just saying that I am sure you can get some impressions here if you look or ask. And I am sure the Woo amps are great for cans that do not demand a lot of power. I have not seen many (if any) impressions on the portable vs home amp, but I am sure there will be some. Maybe Mike at headfonia.com can help us out.


----------



## Armaegis

I wasn't asking for any specific comparisons or suggesting that he buy more. I just figure skylab has reviewed a lot of amps both big and small, and I'd like to know how the new generation of powerful portables stack up against desktops.


----------



## estreeter

Fair point, Armaegis, so I might as well just come out and badger the poor fellow with my own 'final 2':
   
  Skylab, _for guitar-based rock from a mid-fi source into mid-fi cans like the AD900/SR32_5, which would be your preference :
   
*Stepdance or KICAS Caliente ?*
   
  I solemnly vow that I will never return to this thread once I have my answer


----------



## Skylab

I wish i could give you a good answer, but I have not owned the KICAS in far too long, and never compared them directly.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I wish i could give you a good answer, but I have not owned the KICAS in far too long, and never compared them directly.


 


  Thanks Rob.
   
  Armaegis, I'm afraid you are stuck with me and my 'Devils Advocate' ways


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I wish i could give you a good answer, but I have not owned the KICAS in far too long, and never compared them directly.


 
   
  That really sucks that you never got your amp back.  I'm surprised the guy ever sent me a refund on a bad "bad boy" tube before he disappeared.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yup.  That remains the only time I have been ripped off on head-fi.  It's also why I don't loan my gear out.


----------



## estreeter

I am also surprised that Rob was ripped off by another Head-Fier - touch wood, I haven't had a bad experience yet and Ron indicated that he has had 100% positive experiences with the Topkit. Makes it even sadder when someone betrays the trust of another enthusiast - these people should be named and shamed IMO.


----------



## Skylab

*Ultra-amp shootout: A comparison of the top 3 portable headphone amps*
   
*Overview/Introduction*
   
  So finally I am ready to present the results of my listening tests of the three contenders of best portable headphone amp of all time – the Meier Stepdance, the Triad Audio L3, and the RSA SR71B.  First of all, this was one of the tougher tests I have done here, for several reasons.
   One is that all three amps are absolutely outstanding.  I also had the Minibox ES on hand while I was conducting these tests, and it was quite clearly outclassed by these three uber-portables.  I was continually impressed at the very high level of performance that these three amps provided.  I want to emphasize – the differences between these amps were very subtle.  It took weeks of repeated listening with very carefully matched levels to flesh them out.
   
  Second, choice of headphones was a compromise in some ways.  I needed a headphone that was good enough to really show the amps stuff, but also one that could be driven both single ended and balanced.  That basically dictated the Audeze LCD-2, which isn’t a portable headphone, but is a good tool for evaluating amp performance, IMO.  All three of them did a great job driving the LCD-2, actually.  I would have no reservations about using the LCD-2 with any of them, if the situation warranted.
   
  Then there was the complexity of how to evaluate the group given the SR-71B’s balanced mode prowess.  I decided I needed to break the test up as follows below – one round all single-ended, and then one round changing the SR-71B to balanced.  
   
  Please note that I have not attempted to below to describe the performance of each amp, as I have reviewed each of them previously.
   
  A picture of the contenders:
   

   
   
*Single Ended Test Results*
   
  Music used for the test was Holly Cole Trio’s “Jersey Girl” and “Train Song” (from Temptation), Porcupine Tree’s “Trains” (from In Absentia),
  This test was done with all three amps driving the LCD-2 single ended.  The results were:
   
  Treble:
   
  L3 > Stepdance> SR71B
   
  The Stepdance’s treble was the most extended, but the mod treble was a bit recessed compared to the L3.  The L3 had the best detail retrieval.  The SR-71B was just a touch lacking in very top end extension.  The very delicate instrumentation during Holly Cole’s “Train Song” is a great test of this.  All three were unfailingly smooth, though.
   
   
  Midrange:
   
  L3 > SR71B > Stepdance
   
  The L3 had the most transparent and open sounding mids, while also providing the most realistic sounding performance on vocals.  Holly Cole’s voice especially was just jaw-droppingly beautiful on the L3.  Here it was just a bit better than the SR-71B.  The Stepdance had a flatter and slightly recessed midrange compared to the other two.  Again this is very slight, but noticeable.  I preferred the slightly lush mids on the L3, knowing that they were just that - slightly lush.
   
   
  Bass:
   
  L3 > SR-71B > Stepdance
   
  Again reminding that this is the performance in single-ended mode, I found that the SR-71B lacked a little weight and impact compared to the other two, and the L3 had the best weight, impact and depth combination.  This was with the L3’s variable bass control set to flat.  All of the amps had outstanding bass performance, but the Stepdance had just a tiny bit of trouble bringing the LCD-2’s bass prowess out to full measure.
   
   
  Soundstage:
   
  L3 > SR71B > Stepdance
   
  The L3 and SR-71B both had better three-dimensionality than the Stepdance, which seemed a bit flat in direct comparison.  The best depth was provided by the L3.  Vocals really seemed to float in air.
   
   
  Transparency:
   
  L3 > Stepdance > SR71B
   
  Again a bit of a surprise – the L3 was definitely the most transparent overall.  When uses single ended, I felt the SR-71B has a very slight glaze over the sound compared to the other two, and again I thought this was true when directly comparing the L3 to the Stepdance.  All of them qualify as highly transparent, in my view, though.
   
   
  Neutrality:
   
  Stepdance > L3 > SR71B
   
  I think the L3 and SR-71B both are just a little warmer than is strictly neutral.  The Stepdance sounds the least colored if you really peel back the onion…but that said, that does not mean I actually liked its tonality the most; in fact of these three amps, I liked its tonality the LEAST.  Such is life, and personal preferences.  The slight lushness of the SR-71B and L3 was preferable, for me personally.
   
   
*Balancing Act*
   
  I then repeated the tests, with the single change of driving the LCD-2 balanced via the SR71B, but again having re-matched the levels so that they were equal. This did necessitate a very slightly longer cable swap from one to the other. 
   
  The SR-71B is more than just a little better in balanced mode than in single ended mode.  It’s a lot better.  Bass impact, midrange transparency, treble extension, and soundstage depth are all improved.  I now preferred the SR-71B in every dimension over all of the others.  I was actually quite taken back, but after repeated swaps, I still felt this way.  The comparison is not ideal, as my cables for balanced and unbalanced with the LCD-2 are different (although both were the stock cables provided by Audeze). 
   
  I think perhaps the fact that the L3 and Stepdance both employ a balanced ground architecture, which the SR-71B does not have when used single ended, may have something to do with my findings.
   
  To be clear: when used balanced, I prefer the SR-71B over either of the other two amps, in every dimension listed above, even when used with a single-ended source.
   
   
   
*Final thoughts*
   
  There are some non-sonic considerations.  The L3 is much larger and heavier than the other two.  The Stepdance burns battery much, much faster than the other two. And to get the most out of the SR-71B you have to factor in the cost of the right cabling.
   
  The bottom line here is that all three amps are absolutely terrific.  I can very easily recommend each of them without reservation, other than the notes above.  With this review, I am closing the chapter of my life as it involves portable amp reviewing, but what a way to go out – with three amps that I feel may represent the state of the art for a long time to come. 
   
  As always, all of the above is JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.  And now, dear head-fiers, my portable amp reviewing days are over. In the words of John Perry Barlow, "Let the words be yours...I am done with mine."


----------



## kostalex

Thank you for your efforts, Skylab. You are and will always be Head-Fi legend.


----------



## Armaegis

Bravo. That's all that can be said regarding your monumental thread.


----------



## Jalo

Sky, you are so willing and generous to all of our requests.  You could have finished this review weeks ago but you hang in there to satisfy our headfi curiosity.  You have been fair and patient by waiting to get the same stock cable balance and se for a fair test.  You are a class act and a gentleman.  We are indebted to your time and your expertise.  Kostalex said it well, "you are and will always be a headfi legend.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the kind words, all!


----------



## webbie64

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Bravo. That's all that can be said regarding your monumental thread.


 


  X 2
   
  Skylab I have followed your work here for years whilst doing quite a bit of comparison myself when I first joined.  Your consistent dedication to HeadFi and this task in particular will, I am sure, continue into HeadFi legend.
   
  Well done, and enjoy your time now listening simply for personal pleasure and enjoyment.
   
*THANK YOU!*


----------



## estreeter

Great stuff, Rob, and I admit to being a little surprised. Not surprised by the fact that the Stepdance, clearly one of your favourite portable amps of all time (!), was bested by two more expensive amps, but by your comments on the neutral tonality of the Stepdance. Up to this point, I had been led to believe that the Meier amp was warmer than the 3Move and more inclined to flatter poor recordings than that amp. As usual, I suspect that I have missed your point entirely and the Stepdance remains your bang-for-buck amp for those of us who have $350 to spend.
   
  The only other point I would make is that this thread took a downward turn when your relationship with a certain amp maker was called into question - I would ask those who found it necessary to dig this up to revisit your earliest reviews of one of Phil Larocco's amps. Clearly, in your praise for the LisaIII and the L3,* you have been able to separate the idiosyncrasies of certain people from their products* - kudos. All Phil has to do now is batten down the hatches and ramp up L3 production


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [snip]...and the Stepdance remains your bang-for-buck amp for those of us who have $350 to spend.


 
   
  Absolutely and unequivocally.  The Stepdance is THE bargain here for sure, being about 50% of the price of the other two, and basically as good sounding.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Thanks you so much, Skylab! I am sure this thread will remain a goldmine of information. This thread is really great. I loved the final comparison.
   
*Great Job! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*


----------



## raiderkilo

Thanks you so much for information.


----------



## coolcat

thank so much skylab.
  Thank for the great thread and thank for always be a gentleman here.


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## blitz-dice

I have read this review 2 times and decided to get the RSA Hornet, very nice sounding amp. Thanks skylab for the great detailed review


----------



## Caphead78

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Stepdance burns battery much, much faster than the other two.


 

 About how much life do you get on the battery? Also great shootout!


----------



## ztsen

I personally would love to see if you able to put up the home amp as the portable amp format. The rating always valid if you put a time stamp on which date that you reviewed. It doesnt matter if related to the later time because the format here is easy to understand and related to other gear than general for us to guess. At least we know where this reviewed equipment stands during that time. 

 by the way, UE TF10 rocks!
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah I did decide to keep my portable amp reviews all consolidated here, although I did not do the same with my home amp or headphone reviews. I'm not really sure which is the better approach. This thread has a consistent methodology, which for portable amps I found appealing given the fairly minuscule feature differences. But the fact remains that in some ways it just isn't workable to have something like this go on this long and retain its value (as some folks have pointed out...). Many of the amps I reviewed early on are discontinued, or have been revved such that their ratings aren't all that relevant now. So that has been part of my thinking as to why this thread has kind of run its course.


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## cooperpwc

Excellent review, Skylab. A great cap to a triumphant thread.


----------



## wht

Thank you very much Sky.  I like you to know that it was this very thread of yours that helped me decide on my first portable amp - the Mustang, when I decided to have a portable system about two years ago.  Cheers!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks again for the kind words, folks!


----------



## RockaRolla

after reading your first full review of stepdance, and some savings later, I went out to get it, and never regretted it despite its size and batt life problems
   
  seeing your last review which is a top 3 shootout, it has made me feel good once again about the stepdance, at least i know im holding an amp at very near the top!
   
  thanks once again!!!


----------



## Jalo

Sky, I reread your final review of the three amps and I just have a quick question for clarification.  In you single ended comparison, I assume you use the same source for all three amps?  and for the balance ended comparison, did you use the same source equipment with the exception of the same source equipment outputting a balance source to the SR71b?  Thanks


----------



## Clincher09

Do you think you could recommend an amp out of the ones you reviewed that would be best suited for Denon D2000's under $230? I know this isn't an easy question to answer, especially if you've never used the D2000's, but I thought I'd give it a try.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





clincher09 said:


> Do you think you could recommend an amp out of the ones you reviewed that would be best suited for Denon D2000's under $230? I know this isn't an easy question to answer, especially if you've never used the D2000's, but I thought I'd give it a try.


 

 I'll take a shot at that - I thought the 3MOVE was very good with those, and it filled in the recessed mids and controlled the bass nicely.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Sky, I reread your final review of the three amps and I just have a quick question for clarification.  In you single ended comparison, I assume you use the same source for all three amps?  and for the balance ended comparison, did you use the same source equipment with the exception of the same source equipment outputting a balance source to the SR71b?  Thanks


 


  I used the same source across the board - INCLUDING when using the LCD-2 balanced via the SR71B.  I didn't want to change that barrier.  So the SR71B was using it's single ended input and phase-splitting the SE input for the balanced test.  Had I used a balanced source, the SR71B would have been even better sounding, and it was already best running balanced out from the SE input.


  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Larry. Totally agree.


----------



## Clincher09

The fact that is brings out the mids sounds great, but I have a feeling I wouldn't like the "controlled bass" aspect part of it because I like to have as much bass as possible and I need an amp that will improve the bass rather than control it.
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ianmedium

Thank you once again Rob for the balanced and detailed review. It makes me love the Stepdance even more knowing it can almost hold it's own against amps at least double the price!
   
  I continue to be absorbed in the detail, clarity,and depth of this little amp. I used to think the battery thing would bug me but that has not proven so. So far a couple of rechargables does me fine and I never have run out and missed on listening to music.
   
  The amp allows my Denon's and triple.fi's to sing and I believe this amp has what the late, great Julian Vereker of Naim Audio would term, Rythm, Pace and Timing. Having owned and loved his amps in the past I can see familiarities to those wonderful amps in the Stepdance and I can't think of a way to give higher praise!
   
  To think that $370 investment includes shipping (surely that would account to North America anyway at least $40) makes the amp even more remarkable and I would recommend anyone with a budget int he late $200 range to seriously consider saving a little more and getting the Stepdance, The battery life really is not an issue if one takes measures and though it certainly is not slim and pocketable is portable.
   
  Every time I switch it on, feel the solid "Thunk" as the volume turns and then the liquid, smoothness of said volume control I know I am in for a much longer listening session.
   
  Part of my work is as a writer and my choice of place to write my local coffee shop. With my iPad  or pen and paper as my work tools and my Stepdance and ipod plus triple.fi's as my way to seal off the world around me I go to work, absorbed at the task in hand and bathed in high quality musical reproduction.. What more could a person want!
   
  Congratulations to the gentleman who makes the Lisa and to Ray who yet again proves his worth in HiFi reproduction, you have produced incredible machines that bring much joy to their respective owners. To Jan, well, next time I am in Germany I will buy you a pint! You have given this individual a new lease on his musical life.. You have a customer for life sir!


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
  Sky, thank you for the above answer.  When I reread your review, that is the ONLY question I keep asking myself, "did Sky use SE or balance input".  Now I think I have the proper perspective of where the amps are.  Thanks again.  No question these 3 amps are of the highest quality and can sing to anyone's satisfaction.  I am listening to my SR71b balanced through the Boomslang (from computer) and it is sounding better than a few desktop systems I have heard. I know you are done with portable reviews but I think the next step should be a review of portable systems by someone as I suggested in another post in the portable forum.
   
"When the Solo finally comes out in about 3 three weeks.  I think we need to have another match with different portable systems instead of individual components.  
 [size=7.52315px]  [/size]

 [size=7.52315px] Something like:[/size]

 [size=7.52315px]  [/size]

 [size=7.52315px] 1.Ipod/Iphone/Ipad--Solo--Dac(optional)--Amp[/size]

 [size=7.52315px] 2.HM801/601/602--DAC (optional)--Amp(optional)[/size]

 [size=7.52315px] 3 Imod/whipmod--AMP[/size]

 [size=7.52315px] 4.  DAP--JH-3A[/size]

 [size=7.52315px] 5. Cowan D3/Or any other favorite DAP by people--amp[/size]

 [size=7.52315px]  [/size]

 [size=7.52315px] and then we put the winner in a desktop match and see how it fair.  Sounds fun? "[/size]

 [size=7.52315px]  [/size]

 [size=7.52315px]  [/size]

 [size=7.52315px]  [/size]

 [size=7.52315px] The way I see it, the portable world is such a competitive field that the designers are forced to use the latest components in their design for better sound advantage.  We can see this in the SR71b, Ibasso amp and Dac, the picos, Stepdance, L3 etc. As a result, the parts that are used in portable amp and dac are at desktop quality.  Right now it is a race in design and implementation of these parts.  So I will not be surprise in another year or so, portable systems will be competitive with the top level of desktop systems.  Sky, you definitely played a part in this evolution. [/size]


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





clincher09 said:


> The fact that is brings out the mids sounds great, but I have a feeling I wouldn't like the "controlled bass" aspect part of it because I like to have as much bass as possible and I need an amp that will improve the bass rather than control it.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My advice would be to get something with bass boost. The Minibox+ has bass boost, but I don;t think it is the greatest amp from what I have read. Many people love the Headstage Arrow, and it has two levels of bass boost and crossfeed. For cheaper options, consider the Ibasso T4. Also, the Fiio E7 has bass boost, but the E11 that is coming out is a dedicated amp and will be cheaper than $100. It will outperform the E7 and probably come close to the Arrow or something like that.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 have you listened to the d2000s? i think the last thing it needs is bass boost!


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





clincher09 said:


> T*he fact that is brings out the mids sounds great, but I have a feeling I wouldn't like the "controlled bass" aspect part of it because I like to have as much bass as possible and I need an amp that will improve the bass rather than control it.*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lets just say it gives flexibility. Better more control than less. I am a big proponent of equalizing stuff, in as many forms as possible. If you can get good results without equalization, great. However, many times I feel a slightly different sound would be more accurate or fun, and I equalize.


----------



## estreeter

I went back and re-read a lot of Rob's earlier reviews last night, focussing on those amps which he rated highly on bass impact without having to 'mark down' in other areas. If we accept that all of his Tier 1 amps are solid in this regard, it was interesting how well Ray's amps did over a considerable period of time. The Tomahawk, Hornet and Mustang all did very well (from memory), as did the iQube, but the exchange rate against the Euro put the latter in the 'not great vfm' basket.  At 405 Euros (chargeable batteries), that amp now comes in at a little over 550 USD. Not sure where the Euro is going with the escalatng P.I.G.S. crisis, but that exchange rate might bear further scrutiny over 2011.
   
  I know where it all ended in the VFM stakes. at least for those of us with single-ended aspirations, but felt this was a good time to mention the others. Also found it interesting that the Fi.Quest seems to have become the platform for a lot of DIYers and doesnt generate the same buzz as many of the others - happy to hear otherwise.


----------



## Jalo

At the risk of sounding not very empathetic, I would say save a little more and just get the L3 and be done with.  You will be happy for a very long time.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





jalo said:


> At the risk of sounding not very empathetic, I would say save a little more and just get the L3 and be done with.  You will be happy for a very long time.


 

 All good advice, if I could just disregard the state of Phil's website, particularly the forum posts from people looking for an update on the status of their order. Not sure if a lot of it is sorted via email/PM, but he doesnt have a great track record in terms of communication with customers - always happy to hear otherwise.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Also found it interesting that the Fi.Quest seems to have become the platform for a lot of DIYers and doesnt generate the same buzz as many of the others - happy to hear otherwise.


 

 I have heard nothing but good things about the Fi.Quest but It's hard to get excited about an amp that you cannot buy.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





clincher09 said:


> The fact that is brings out the mids sounds great, but I have a feeling I wouldn't like the "controlled bass" aspect part of it because I like to have as much bass as possible and I need an amp that will improve the bass rather than control it.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Where in the world would you get the idea that "controlled bass" means reduced bass???  It means that the bass is less "one-note" and more detailed than with some other amps.  The bass with 3MOVE is very powerful.
   


  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 God no, why would you suggest bass boost on a cheap amp to make the D2000 sound more flabby?  Plus the T4 is not a transparent or detailed amp, and the iPhone headphone jack sounds better.  Maybe the minibox or arrow bass boost is better, but have you actually tried them on a D2000?  The best advice comes out of experience with a pairing, followed by speculation.  If you've tried it then disregard this.


----------



## Clincher09

I've just heard other people use "controlled bass" in the sense that they thought there was too much bass previously and the amp brought it down a notch. I'm interested in the 3Move but I can't find anywhere to buy it.
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jalo

To me control bass is opposite to uncontrol bass where the bass is described as boomy, unfocus, loose or not tight.  Control bass to me is tight, crisp, quick attack, not bleeding into higher frequency, but no necessary less bass.


----------



## kostalex

So, good bass control takes care of both quality and quantity.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





clincher09 said:


> I've just heard other people use "controlled bass" in the sense that they thought there was too much bass previously and the amp brought it down a notch. I'm interested in the 3Move but I can't find anywhere to buy it


 

 The 3Move is discontnued. You might find a used one for sale from time to time in the Amps For Sale Forum on here.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Headphoneaddict:
   
  The T4 is probably not very helpful at all. The Fiio E7 and the upcoming E11 are probably much better options. Bass boost gives you flexibility, especially for low level listening. I find myself in situations that I would love bass boost, even with pretty bass heavy cans. I haven't had an amp yet, but I have tried receivers and strong DAPs with EQ, and even bass heavy cans and especially bass light ones can really benefit from an extra push on the bass. I am not going for a bloated mess or an ear destroying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 sound at all.
   
  From what I have read and observed here, at around $250, the Headstage Arrow is probably the best small single ended amp with bass boost around here, the Ibasso P4 is probably the best single ended amp in that range but is bigger and does not offer bass boost but does offer opamp rolling, and the Ibasso PB1 is very good because it is balanced, which will necessitate recabling. However, the PB1 is still very good single ended, and would probably do an excellent job with the D2000s. I probably missed a few, so please anybody chime in if you feel like it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Headphoneaddict:
> 
> The T4 is probably not very helpful at all. The Fiio E7 and the upcoming E11 are probably much better options. Bass boost gives you flexibility, especially for low level listening. I find myself in situations that I would love bass boost, even with pretty bass heavy cans. I haven't had an amp yet, but I have tried receivers and strong DAPs with EQ, and even bass heavy cans and especially bass light ones can really benefit from an extra push on the bass. I am not going for a bloated mess or an ear destroying
> 
> ...


 

 I can appreciate that you are trying to be helpful, but you previously made some recommendations as if they were fact without hearing the results for yourself first.  I made my recommendation based on the synergy between a particular amp and headphones, which I have heard.  If you can rephrase things in the future the way you did just now it might be more helpful.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I can appreciate that you are trying to be helpful, but you previously made some recommendations as if they were fact without hearing the results for yourself first.  I made my recommendation based on the synergy between a particular amp and headphones, which I have heard.  If you can rephrase things in the future the way you did just now it might be more helpful.


 

 +1


----------



## kostalex

- 1
   
  He is helpful. Look, he summarizes some info from the extensive reading. He made all necessary reservations ("FWIR", "probably") and did not add his own words. This may save reading time for many.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> - 1
> 
> He is helpful. Look, he summarizes some info from the extensive reading. He made all necessary reservations ("FWIR", "probably") and did not add his own words. This may save reading time for many.


 

 Thanks, Kostalex. I should have phrased it better. When I was a newb here, I had no idea the differences between amps and was hopelessly confused. Now I have some idea, and want to help somebody.


----------



## Szadzik

Hi Everyone,
   
  I have a question for all the experts out there. I have a pair of Beyerdynamic T5p headphones and a Corda Stepdance (that will probably lose its portable character and be left at home with D7000) and I am trying to find another amp only for portable use with T5s.
   
  Since the headphones I use are a tad bit bright and the Stepdance reduces the brightness,  I was thinking that maybe I could buy an amp that would help reduce the brightness/ introduce some warmth,
   
  I read reviews of a few amps in this thread (thanks for them SkyLab) and I thought that maybe those on the warmer side of sound signature could be better to reduce brightness.
   
  I was thinking about Headamp Pico, iBasso D4 Mamba and Ray Samuels Mustang P-51 - listed in order of preference.
   
  What do you all think about my choices? Am I right about getting a warm amp to reduce brightness?
   
  TIA,
  Szadzik


----------



## daveDerek

Jack, you might want to look into something along the lines of a Ray Samuels Hornet, especially a non "M" version.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





davederek said:


> Jack, you might want to look into something along the lines of a Ray Samuels Hornet, especially a non "M" version.


 


  Who's Jack


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  er, isn't that your name? if not so sorry, my bad.


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





davederek said:


> er, isn't that your name? if not so sorry, my bad.


 


  Yip, it is my name, I was just thinking how you got it figuret out


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  read Pendles post about me: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/184674/davederek/75#post_3805661  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  btw, where is 'NI'?


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





davederek said:


> read Pendles post about me: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/184674/davederek/75#post_3805661
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I see now 
   
  NI is Northern Ireland my supposed-to-be-home but not much any more. I doo too much travelling to call any place on this planet 'home'.
   
  Back on topic.
  So why do you think Hornet will be beter choice for me? Will it reduce the brightness of my cans? From what I can see in the review it seems to be similar to my cans with a bit of prominence in treble and midange.


----------



## daveDerek

the hornet is a a warmish amp, with the pre/non M versions being somewhat warmer. some folks prefer that version of the amp, but they can be a bit harder to find. i don't think it's bright up top. it's been around long enough now that buying used is fairly reasonable and if you decided to give something else a try your wallet would not take (much of) a hit reselling it.


----------



## estreeter

daveDerek, you might be the man to ask (or Rob/Larry/someone):
   
  why is it that, whenever someone recommends the original SR71 they always put something like *'not the SR71A' *in as a disclaimer ? I assume this is because they havent heard the 'amended' version, but Ray seems to be saying that he had to come up with the A when he ran out of parts for the original SR71. Any feedback most welcome.
   
  estreeter


----------



## Skylab

I assume that is just to differentiate between them, as they are different.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> daveDerek, you might be the man to ask (or Rob/Larry/someone):
> why is it that, whenever someone recommends the original SR71 they always put something like *'not the SR71A' *in as a disclaimer ? I assume this is because they havent heard the 'amended' version, but Ray seems to be saying that he had to come up with the A when he ran out of parts for the original SR71. Any feedback most welcome.
> estreeter


 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I assume that is just to differentiate between them, as they are different.


 
   
  the original sr71 was highly regarded (in part because running on 2x9v batteries it had more juice than most other portable amps), but as you mention, after a certain point Ray could no longer make them as some key components apparently were no longer available. after a while he came up with the sr71a, another amp that was viewed quite favorably. it was meant as a direct replacement for the original blackbird. now he has the sr71b, which is a whole 'nuther can of amperage. i suppose he kept the name due to perhaps it's form factor and it's 'spiritual lineage', though he apparently still makes the sr71a. as Rob points out i think folks are striving for clarity and precision by noting which amp they're actually referring to.
 i'm sure each device will have it's proponents, though i'm not sure how many people have spent time carefully comparing the different versions (although i did read something where a new sr71b owner  said that it's single ended output sounded like the sr71a, and he meant that as a strong compliment). the sr71b is reported to sound really good (amongst the very best as per skylab's final review of portables) running single ended, but ups the ante a bunch when running balanced, whereas it's progenitor, the protector, is often considered very good single ended but not quite up there with the very best portable units single  ended, it gives a top notch performance when running balanced. it's uncanny how well it can drive the hd600 balanced (to say nothing of something like the wonderful jh13)!


----------



## estreeter

Thank you both for the clarificaition - its reassuring to know that we have lighthouses out there in the sea of historical confusion 
   
  As much as I'd prefer something a little more macho than 'Concerto' and 'Stepdance', I have to admit that Jan's naming scheme beats Ray's for clarity, at least IMO. For starters, Ray named all of his amps after his daughter


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Hello, awesome thread!
   
  I dont know, but i have the feeling i already did this, deja vu. 
   
  How does the Mini3 with gain 5x compares to other amps in, lets say, 100 to 200$ range? 
   
  never mind i waent back to the OP and found it, how could i've miss it the first time ... although it could be cool to hear from people who have tried a few more amps.
   
  Im about to receive mine and it will be my second one after fiio e5


----------



## daveDerek

i never tried the mini3, but it's generally been regarded as a good value.  more importantly mr mcprogger, are you ready for the nearfest patron lottery?


----------



## arrowmark

Thank you Skylab for all your time for writing all the very detailed, informative reviews ! ! !


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





davederek said:


> i never tried the mini3, but it's generally been regarded as a good value.  more importantly mr mcprogger, are you ready for the nearfest patron lottery?


 

 I dont get it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  what I meant was, in a scale between the commercial amps, lets say the iBasso line, where would the mini3 be positioned?
  edit: OK i get it now, but i am too far away to attend Nearfest


----------



## Amused

I've been a longtime lurker and have only recently registered with H-F. I've been amongst the HiFi community for some 15+ years, and have primarily played with solid state gear with a couple tube units mixed in (Cary and McIntosh). Having downsized my living space and consequently my collection of 2-channel rigs in recent years (to just my original Bryston B60 feeding some Dynaudio Focus 140s), I've been getting more and more interested in headphones and IEMs. Before stumbling upon this site, I had no idea that there was such a community and fan base for headphones and IEMs. I'm glad I've found it...It's been extremely helpful in filling the void left by shedding my old 2-channel setups.

 I apologize for being off topic, but I wanted my first post to be in probably my favorite thread here. Skylab has really done an amazing job in writing up his reviews of all of these amps.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 hmmm, generally my sense of geography is pretty good, but i'm not too sure where 'nauticus' is supposed to be (you're not in norfolk, va, are you?). how far is too far? my friend comes in from japan almost every year for nearfest. people come all over the usa and other countries too to attend this festival, which is generally considered the pre-eminent prog festival out there. you should try and attend some time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i can't tell you where the mini3 fits relative to the ibasso line. perhaps some other folks (mrarroyo?) might have some experience with this.
   


  Quote: 





amused said:


> I've been a longtime lurker and have only recently registered with H-F. I've been amongst the HiFi community for some 15+ years, and have primarily played with solid state gear with a couple tube units mixed in (Cary and McIntosh). Having downsized my living space and consequently my collection of 2-channel rigs in recent years (to just my original Bryston B60 feeding some Dynaudio Focus 140s), I've been getting more and more interested in headphones and IEMs. Before stumbling upon this site, I had no idea that there was such a community and fan base for headphones and IEMs. I'm glad I've found it...It's been extremely helpful in filling the void left by shedding my old 2-channel setups.
> 
> I apologize for being off topic, but I wanted my first post to be in probably my favorite thread here. Skylab has really done an amazing job in writing up his reviews of all of these amps.


 
   
  welcome to head-fi - sorry about your wallet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  yeah, Rob's effort at this task over the years has been remarkable. i'd imagine it gets old after a while, hunting for what may often be small differences that may only hold up under particular circumstances. ie. given different associated gear, and one's ear, ymmv! some tend to treat these things like some sort of mathematical equation trying to rank different items. as i'm sure you've found poking around in the world of audio for a number of years, this [mathematical] approach is limited.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





amused said:


> I've been a longtime lurker and have only recently registered with H-F. I've been amongst the HiFi community for some 15+ years, and have primarily played with solid state gear with a couple tube units mixed in (Cary and McIntosh). Having downsized my living space and consequently my collection of 2-channel rigs in recent years (to just my original Bryston B60 feeding some Dynaudio Focus 140s), I've been getting more and more interested in headphones and IEMs. Before stumbling upon this site, I had no idea that there was such a community and fan base for headphones and IEMs. I'm glad I've found it...It's been extremely helpful in filling the void left by shedding my old 2-channel setups.
> 
> I apologize for being off topic, but I wanted my first post to be in probably my favorite thread here. Skylab has really done an amazing job in writing up his reviews of all of these amps.


 

 Thanks for the kind words!  Much appreciated


----------



## Phoenyx1

I've been coming back to this thread for about 3 months now but I'm still a tad lost - what would you guys recommend for the SM3?


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





phoenyx1 said:


> I've been coming back to this thread for about 3 months now but I'm still a tad lost - what would you guys recommend for the SM3?


 
   
  umm, perhaps posting them in the 'for sale' forum...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  seriously though, you might be better off perusing sm3 threads as it's quite possible this (more appropriately) has been addressed there, and if not try asking over there. else pick a decent amp and see what happens.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Quote: 





davederek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  South America. and as for nauticus try looking in "Pain of Salvation" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  And its the work keeping me away from such stuff


----------



## Szadzik

Quote: 





davederek said:


> the hornet is a a warmish amp, with the pre/non M versions being somewhat warmer. some folks prefer that version of the amp, but they can be a bit harder to find. i don't think it's bright up top. it's been around long enough now that buying used is fairly reasonable and if you decided to give something else a try your wallet would not take (much of) a hit reselling it.


 


  I will have a look at the FS threads and see if there is anych chance of getting it used. What do  you think about the list I put together? Pico, D4 and P-51. D4 is a really tempting choice as for much less money I would get a DAC too.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





szadzik said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  i haven't played w/ a d4, but i have had a p51 (nice amp. typical rsa sound - a bit on the warmish side. probalby more extended that the hornet, which may make it seem brighter) and while i haven't owned a pico, i do have a pico slim & two other head-amp products.  his units tend to be very clean but i wouldn't generally call them particularly warm sounding. they're not sterile but perhaps leaner than an rsa unit.
 hpa probably has played with all the units in question so he may some insights into those comparisons.


----------



## estreeter

I would describe the stock D4 as 'warm', at least compared to a Chinese-made DAC/amp I previously paid $500 for and had far less enjoyment from. The difficulty lies in determining whether its warm or simply transparent enough to render your warm source - either way, I prefer this to the cold, sterile 24/192 upsampling of the old DAC/amp.


----------



## suhaybh

I am currently using DT770 250 (may switch to 600 ohm or Denon D2000) and I am looking for an amp that meets these specs:
    
  Tiny
  Silent
  Rechargeable
  USB-DAC
  Can be charged by USB and still use the USB DAC or line out (like iBasso)
   
  I thought it would be better to post in here rather than creating a new thread. So any suggestions? I was looking at the DIY kit offered by Meier since they make silent amps, and it was tiny. But I don't know if its rechargeable. I really like the iBasso D4 but I kinda want something smaller. I am open to DIY. Thanks in advance.


----------



## estreeter

Whenever you want power in a smaller form factor, it usually has a sharp upward effect on the price you will have to pay - what is your budget ?


----------



## Jalo

Sounds like you are already aware of the Ibasso amps, the others that I can think of that may meet those criteria that are smaller than the D4 may be RSA Predator and Pico Dac/Amp.  Any time you are trying to go down in size to that extreme, you are going to risk not having sufficient power to drive those full size and high impedance cans not to say like Estreeter suggests price will go way up also.  You best bet right now are the Ibasso D6 and D12 in terms of price to performance ratio.


----------



## suhaybh

Unfortunately my budget is pretty low. Definitely less than $300


----------



## Jalo

Then looks like the D6 will be you best bet at $275.00.  Unfortunately the amp is too new to be found in the FS forum, otherwise it will be even less.


----------



## estreeter

Its all relative, but I dont think I would describe the D4/D6 form factor as 'tiny', which is what he originally wanted. When you start to look at devices like the Pico Slim or the RSA Shadow, $300 just isnt going to cut it unless you can find a very good deal in FS.


----------



## Jalo

Even if he can find Pico Slim of Shadow below $300.00, they are not Dac/Amp and so will not meet his criteria.


----------



## estreeter

How small is the Fiio E7 ? Not exactly the most powerful dac/amp, but I think its quite cheap.


----------



## Mr.Sh0eWax

Would anyone care to comment on SR-71a vs. P-51?


----------



## JamesMcProgger

well, im shocked at the this:
   
   
   
Quote: from HERE


> 11. Mini3 (Price depends on build) built @ $125.00
> 12. Leckerton Audio UHA-3 @ $189.00
> 12. iBasso T3 @ $119.00


 
   
  Mini3> iBasso T3 (by a small margin)
   
  i have a mini3, and was thinking abotu getting an ibasso t3 or p4, but now idk, unless P4 is really a step up


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





mr.sh0ewax said:


> Would anyone care to comment on SR-71a vs. P-51?


 
  I have both SR71a and P-51 since both came out and had kept both until last December when I sold my SR71a.  I like the P-51 sound more than the SR71a.  It is more musical to me.  The SR71a is definitely more powerful than the P-51 but I have the Protector and the SR71B so I didn't need the power of the SR71a.  The P-51 is very small and a perfect amp for all iems but it doesn't drive demanding cans very well.  The 71a is very neutral but too flat for me.  The pros for the 71a is that it uses standard battery so you never have to worry about not able to use the amp because you can't find replacement battery.  It is powerful and can drive demanding amps.  It is well build.  However, since I change to Protector and SR71b, I really like the balance sound character more.  It's more dynamic, open, and involving.


----------



## Mr.Sh0eWax

Thanks for the input.
   
  Well, right now, the most potent can I'm interested in powering would be the D5000, but perhaps a set of Beyerdynamics might be in my future. Does anyone else feel that the P-51 is underwhelming when it comes cans? I'm somewhat surprised to hear that... (Even after all my reading I feel like a noob to all of this.)


----------



## Jalo

I wouldn't do that if I were you.


----------



## Mr.Sh0eWax

Okay, to be honest the D5000 won't even be leaving the house. It's just the most power hungry headphone I've got at the moment, so I wanted to know what's what. I might be interested in picking up a new pair of cans for work, and this amp would do double duty with my ER-4Ps. Perhaps I need to reassess that line of thinking. 
   
  I guess it's back to the search tool, thanks for opening my eyes. (Although had I done even a basic search of this sub-forum I would have seen that.)


----------



## musedesign

Skylab,
    Thank you, thank you!  I keep coming back to your thread over and over! 
   
    I have taken the plunge and ordered a pair of Sennhesier HD650.  I know they are better with a home amp, but since I travel, I would like to also have a small inexpensive amp (less than $200).  It seems that people like the Hornet paired with the HD650 but that is out of my price range.  What are your suggestions?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## kostalex

Skylab does not use HD650 and I never seen his advices on amps for them. For $200, most recommended is Meier Headsix. I never heard it, but it is built and sounds similar to Meier Move. I know Move well and may highly recommend it for HD650.


----------



## musedesign

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Skylab does not use HD650 and I never seen his advices on amps for them. For $200, most recommended is Meier Headsix. I never heard it, but it is built and sounds similar to Meier Move. I know Move well and may highly recommend it for HD650.


 

 Kostalex, Thanks!  Any thoughts on the Meier Headsix vs.iBasso D4?  They are my top two choices.


----------



## kostalex

I've not heard them. Basing on my experience with their siblings (Meier Move, D2 Viper, D3, D10 , D12), I would go with D4. I've just learned it is $199 and this is great price for:

 Its SQ
 DAC
 rechargable battery
   
  HeadphoneAddict in his epic review placed D4 over Move.
  
  Quote: 





musedesign said:


> Kostalex, Thanks!  Any thoughts on the Meier Headsix vs.iBasso D4?  They are my top two choices.


----------



## kostalex

Sorry, D4 SQ is my speculation. I believe it is placed between D12 and D10.


----------



## Mr.Sh0eWax

Jalo, could you compare the bass between the 71a and P-51 for me? Which is stronger, etc?
  Quote: 





jalo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## wolfen68

The SR71a has more bass IMO.
   
   
  Quote: 





mr.sh0ewax said:


> Jalo, could you compare the bass between the 71a and P-51 for me? Which is stronger, etc?


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





kostalex said:


> Sorry, D4 SQ is my speculation. I believe it is placed between D12 and D10.


 

 The USB DAC on my D4 ceased to function after a few months (several people have reported a similar problem - its the mini-USB connection on the unit itself), but I am still very happy with its abilities as an amp. My solution was to buy a dedicated USB DAC (Music Streamer II) for use with my computer and a 6G Nano for portable use. I am very happy with these combinations.


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## Mr.Sh0eWax

Ouch, my wallet! I went with the 71a. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for the help everyone!


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





musedesign said:


> Skylab,
> Thank you, thank you!  I keep coming back to your thread over and over!
> 
> I have taken the plunge and ordered a pair of Sennhesier HD650.  I know they are better with a home amp, but since I travel, I would like to also have a small inexpensive amp (less than $200).  It seems that people like the Hornet paired with the HD650 but that is out of my price range.  What are your suggestions?
> ...


 

 I find the HD650 more difficult to drive than the HD600.  I own the HD600 but sold my HD650.  They like an amp with higher voltage than 5v most of the time. Someone mentioned the Headsix - but I don't think the Headsix is enough for HD600, after I've heard other portables.  I'd venture to say the Meier Headsix/XXS running on 9v power is slightly less powerful than the D4 with 9v, but I'd need to compare them again. 
   
  The $220 D4 in 9v mode is just enough for the HD600, but my Meier 3MOVE has more power and control for the HD600 than D4 even though it's using 9v like the D4.  The 3MOVE on 9v is noticeably better at driving the HD600 than the D4.  If you need portable to drive an HD650 the MOVE, 2MOVE or 3MOVE should do the job, although I've heard the 3MOVE was discontinued.  A used one might go for $200 if you look hard enough.  The amp on the 2MOVE is the same, and only the case is different.  Battery life is actually pretty good (over 50 hours).
   
  I have tried the new Meier Stepdance which also has great power for the HD650, but battery life with the D4 or Stepdance is poor and in the neighborhood of 8-10 hours.  Stepdance does have noticeably more power than the D4, but no DAC.  However it can run on as high as 15v wallwart (regulated) and offers even more power.  On the other hand, the D4 can run in 5v mode via USB power if you run out of battery (which will happen).  If you don't need a DAC, and the 8-10 hour battery life is okay, then the Stepdance would be a better choice for the HD650.  The price is like $255 + shipping.
   
  The Vividaudiotech.com V1 is a $99 amp that has some upper mids coloration that works well with my HD600 and Denon (but not Grado), and somehow it has gobs of power despite charging via 5v USB power.  The AD8397 opamp has good output and is used in the much more expensive Pico - this amp seemed to drive HD600 better than Pico, but the Pico sounded better which not playing as loud.  The optional rapid charger might operate at 9v, I don't recall.  It has more power than the D4 in 9v mode when driving the HD600, and I know it runs over 10 hours on a charge (I forget the exact amount).  
   
  The V1, 3MOVE and Stepdance can make your face and ears vibrate and rattle with the HD600.  They don't feel like portable amps with these phones.  For me the best compromise is the 3MOVE, in terms of sound, power and battery life.  Plus like the D4 the 3MOVE can run off 5v USB with no battery, although you must use the DAC as source for that.  The Stepdance would give slightly better and more open sound, but the V1 sounds pretty good with HD600 if you are on an extreme budget.


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## musedesign

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you !  Thank you!  You are the best, wow, you may have convinced me to return the unopened HD650, get the HD600 and use the money for a better amp.  Thank you!
   
  -Mark


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## sfmatt

HeadphoneAddict's indeed the best (thank you for making me buy the D2 Viper, the beginning of a life of addiction...) but I have also both HD600 and HD650 and even if I agree that HD650 is harder to drive, I find my new iBasso D6 drives the HD650 really well out of the box with almost 20 hours of battery life. It's too bright to my ears for HD600 but that's a matter of taste and you can always swap opamps.
   
  It's an eternal debate between the HD6x0s. I'm in the 75% HD650 - 25% HD600 camp, hard to know until you try for yourself. Both are great headphones.
   


> Thank you !  Thank you!  You are the best, wow, you may have convinced me to return the unopened HD650, get the HD600 and use the money for a better amp.  Thank you!
> 
> -Mark


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





musedesign said:


> Thank you !  Thank you!  You are the best, wow, you may have convinced me to return the unopened HD650, get the HD600 and use the money for a better amp.  Thank you!
> 
> -Mark


 

 ...which, all amping considerations aside, is simply an excellent choice. HD600 is wonderful, like HD650 with a dark cloud lifted. All IMHO and yes, there there are entire threads devoted to arguing this point.


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## dalethorn

Can any of the portable headphone amps get USB or pre-DAC output from an iPod Touch and convert the sound using the headphone amp's DAC?


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## estreeter

Quote: 





dalethorn said:


> Can any of the portable headphone amps get USB or pre-DAC output from an iPod Touch and convert the sound using the headphone amp's DAC?


 

 No. The only 100% portable transport/DAC to access the iDevice directly is the Solo, and that requires connection to an amp. And deep pockets. Various people mention the $99 Pure i20 as the 'solution' - picture yourself using that on a plane.


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## anm

hrt istreamer - it is portable but costs $199.


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## Jalo

And how does one uses the istreamer on an airplane, bus, or train?


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## Skylab

One doesn't. I like the iStreamer a lot, but it is not portable. It requires power. I travel with it, though, to give me better sound in my hotel.

And thinking about it, one absolutely could use it on Amtrak, since they have AC power


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## Jalo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> One doesn't. I like the iStreamer a lot, *but it is not portable*. It requires power. I travel with it, though, to give me better sound in my hotel.
> 
> And thinking about it, one absolutely could use it on Amtrak, since they have AC power


 

 That was my point in response the Anm that the istreamer is not portable.  That is why I ordered the Solo--it is still the only battery powered device to get the digit out of ipod.  Sky, do you think you could compare and notice the difference in the different devices in this group like the istreamer, Solo, Pure i20, Wadia i7 etc?


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## Skylab

The iStreamer is different from the others, in that it takes the digital signal out of the iPod or iPad, but it runs it through it's own DAC. There is no digital out like the Pure or the Wadia. So really the question is, does it sound better than the built in DAC of the iPod or iPad, and IMO, it sounds much better.


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## Jalo

Well, with the Solo, you have both the digital out (coax) and the line out from the build in wolfson DAC, so you can choose.  Glad that you enjoy your istreamer.


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## Skylab

Yeah, the Solo is the better product, very likely. But it's also more than 2x the price of the iStreamer.


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## Mr.Sh0eWax

The Solo seems interesting. But I'm a little put off by the price they ask for those interconnecting cables. Am I way off base here? They include the rubber bands because its obvious people are gonna wanna stack this but including the short cables was way beyond the call of duty. Ahh, that's life tho - they do have an A++ reputation for cables. Anyone think they're worth it?


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## Jalo

Sky, you are worry about a $300.00 difference between the two devices, when you would spent an extra $600.00 on the ED8 Le for a little piece of wood decal.  Hehehe, coming from you it's very funny to me .


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## Mr.Sh0eWax

Double.


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## Skylab

jalo said:


> Sky, you are worry about a $300.00 difference between the two devices, when you would spent an extra $600.00 on the ED8 Le for a little piece of wood decal.  Hehehe, coming from you it's very funny to me .





 
LOL! Yeah, not so much an issue for me, but for many people I expect that it would be.


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## Jalo

Mr. Shoewax, you are not way off base at all.  I totally agree with your sentiment.


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## Mr.Sh0eWax

If I got one to pair with my kit I'd probably shorten their included cable, and buy a cheaper mini-to-mini from HeadRoom.


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## Jalo

Sky, by the time you take into account the "supposed to be" Reference level Wolfson Dac, the excellent master clock for jitter free reclocking, the most compact device of the group, the battery implementation, the flexibility of the coax and line out, the fact that it is stackable with other portable amps, the ability to watch movie/video on an airplane in full theater/concert level enjoyment, and the potential limited market size, the price level seems about right for me.


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## novacav

it's hard to tell from the pic on their site, about how big is the solo compared to, say, an ipod classic?


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## estreeter

Quote: 





novacav said:


> it's hard to tell from the pic on their site, about how big is the solo compared to, say, an ipod classic?


 

 Just go to the 6Moons site and find the review they did on the Solo 'stack'. IMO, the Solo/Rx/Classic look like they were made for one another. Just be aware that the Rx didnt quite live up to some of the insane hype that preceeded its release (insane as in 'generated by HF'). No, I havent heard it, but there are plenty of posts here - in any case, you arent limited to an ALO amp : I only mention it because the stack does look very good ergonomically.


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## kostalex

Could you point me to this review? I searched Solo there with no luck.


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## estreeter

*ALO Solo 'Stack'*
   
  Teaser 1:
   
  http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/dipod/1.html
   
  Teaser 2:
   
  http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/canjam2010/1.html
   
  Shazam:
   
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aloaudio2/1.html


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## Jalo

Or here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/509190/introducing-the-alo-audio-rx-prescription-mk2-headphone-amplifier
   
  Note how the Iphone is stacked with the RX-MKII and the RX-MKII is exactly the same size as the Solo.


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## estreeter

Yep, the Solo and accompanying amp are a good match for the iPhone/iTouch form factor - probably slightly less so for the Classic, but for those of us with the 6G Nano, any of the above look like a great fit. I love the DAP, loathe the form factor/touch screen.


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## Jalo

Yep, Nano 6g, that I also have and if you bundle the 6g on the of the solo and amp, it will perform a disappearing act on you and viola, only the Solo and the beautiful music is left.


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## estreeter

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Yep, Nano 6g, that I also have and if you bundle the 6g on the of the solo and amp, it will perform a disappearing act on you and viola, only the Solo and the beautiful music is left.


 

 My Shuffle has indeed disappeared, as in I have no idea where the hell it is. Another strike against the trend to tinier and tinier DAPs, IMO.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My friend, I am afraid it is not the tininess of the DAP but one's prefrontal cortex that is doing the disappearing act.....just kidding.


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## novacav

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha! I want to use that phrase in everyday conversation.


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## markm1111

I knew I could rely on Skylab. He was my guide when looking for a tube amp (ended up with a Decware CSP-2+), and now he is my guide on portable amps.
   
  Thanks for putting in such a great effort!


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## ben201

bought a protector because of this review 
  I also bought a twag for it that I am going to use it with triple fi and I AM SO EXCITED!!!


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## Mdraluck23

So, I just read through the thread, mostly. This is the thread I started, but I don't mind fielding my request here, since it's already been established. I'd be much more willing to go with around $200, not much, I know. Also, a DAC isn't _one hundred percent_ necessary, but it is likely to be my best source.


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## Jalo

Quote: 





ben201 said:


> bought a protector because of this review
> I also bought a twag for it that I am going to use it with triple fi and I AM SO EXCITED!!!


 

 I hope you are using the balance out to drive your triple Fi, right.  Otherwise, it will be a waste to use it single ended.


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## suhaybh

Where does the DIY mini3 (High Voltage) amp rank in all of this? Specifically looking for a comparison to the stepdance. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated.


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## dadab12

Has anyone tried the just audio UHA-120? how does it pair with the ultrasone pro 900
  ?


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## Somnambulist

dadab12 said:


> Has anyone tried the just audio UHA-120? how does it pair with the ultrasone pro 900
> ?




cn11 is the man to ask. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Severanth

Wish this review was sticky at the top as it is a great reference for newbie's and everyone else.


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## estreeter

I agree that its a fantastic effort, but *I believe that it needs to be locked*. As Rob pointed out several pages back, he has moved on from portable amps and we are now seeing 'orphan' posts in the thread that might have been better served in a different thread/new thread. Part of the problem is that many of the amps referred to in Rob's original comparison are already obsolete, and new amps are being released all the time - I believe that its time to move on, although a sticky containing a link to this thread and general advice for newbies to portable amps is a good idea.
   
  Just my 2 cents worth.


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## kwkarth

This thread is locked


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