# zu cable mobius or silver dragon



## tourmaline

zu cable mobius or silver dragon as aftermarket cable for the hd600/650.

 would like to hear opinions on those two cables. 

 i


----------



## iamdone

I should be getting my Zu Mobius today or tomorrow for my HD650s. I can only give a comparison to the stock cable. The stock has about 100 hours on it, so I don't know if it would be fair to compare a new cable to the stock but I heard the Zu is supposed to sound better out of the box than a burned in stock cable.

 I'll posted back after testing and maybe a week later when the cable has more hours on it.


----------



## tourmaline

thanks iamdone,

 would like to know what you think of it.


----------



## iamdone

I also just saw this.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=54835

 I give a lot of links and a lot of good information.


----------



## tourmaline

thanks again
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but there's no respnce to the silver dragon. want to know if this cable is even better then the mobius.


----------



## tom hankins

I've got the ZU and it is GREAT. I've had a chance to compare it to the Equinox and the stock HD650 and HD600 cables and also had the Cardas. it is better than all of the other cables I mentioned across the entire frequency range. Nice highs with just the right amount of sparkle, clean and clear, the mids are the sweetest and most musical of the cables, and the bass is no contest at all. By far my favorite senn. cable. 
 I don't know if the silver dragon is out yet or not. You might want to try out one of the new cables thats in a thread in the cables forum. They are affordable and have a money back trial period. The thread is titled "affordable HD650,600,580 cable" check it out. www.bayleyaudio.com


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tom hankins _
*I've got the ZU and it is GREAT. I've had a chance to compare it to the Equinox and the stock HD650 and HD600 cables and also had the Cardas. it is better than all of the other cables I mentioned across the entire frequency range. Nice highs with just the right amount of sparkle, clean and clear, the mids are the sweetest and most musical of the cables, and the bass is no contest at all. By far my favorite senn. cable. 
 I don't know if the silver dragon is out yet or not. You might want to try out one of the new cables thats in a thread in the cables forum. They are affordable and have a money back trial period. The thread is titled "affordable HD650,600,580 cable" check it out. www.bayleyaudio.com * 
 

thanks for your info.

 since i live in europe, i don't think the manufacterers would give me a money back guarantee, don't you think? not to mention the high import duties for every cable to try.


----------



## tbdoah

Tuberoller has the king-of-all faqs on upgrade cables for the Sennheisers.


----------



## Hajime

Tourmaline,

 Hello there. When the cable is released the loaner program will extend internationally. Please feel free to email me for more information.

 Chris


----------



## tourmaline

i think i 'll keep a close eye on the silver dragon. sounds like a very good contender.


----------



## gpalmer

I haven't heard the Zu, I have heard the Silver Dragon, I liked it very much. It clearly outperformed both the Cardas and the stock cable.


----------



## Edwood

I have the Zu cable with my 600's. I like them alot. The machined aluminum connectors are really nice. The newer ones fit the ribbed/nubbed sockets of the 600's like a glove. 

 Base and treble will be the first things you will notice immediately. They do take a bit of time to open up though.

 The cable is quite heavy and stiff, though. It really needs a shirt clip or something.

 -Ed


----------



## Guild

For now, discussing about the Silver Dragon is going to be limited to lucky SOBs like Tuberoller and those who have heard it at meets. Wide spread discussion won't happen until the first batch starts arriving at peoples doorsteps. I'm sure a thread will be created at that time (if not, I'll start one.)


----------



## Sean H

I'm quite intrigued with the Zu but just not sold yet. With all due respect to tom, I hold his words in high regard, but I'm still reluctant right now. Ultimately, I need to just try it for myself. Until a pair of HGA Silver Lace came along I have never been too groovy with silver cables, most of the various silver IC's I have tried were too "hi-fi" sounding, with a slightly etched, wide open and ultra revealing character that was more electronical than musical. The Silver Lace is not like that. I prefer a warmer, even slightly darker presentation, that is accurate, coherent and full through the midrange first and foremost. I'm afraid that the Zu will focus too much on the extremes and the front end defintion of notes rather than the body, if you know what I mean. I'm also afraid of it having a tilted up treble range too. I don't know where I am going with this, I'm just on the fence right now I guess. Any additonal insight you Zu owners can offer?


----------



## Sean H

Quoting Nick Dangerous from another thread:

_*FYI, if you get to audition the MG Head (or the Audiovalve RKV, ASL Twin Head, or comparable tube amp), the Equinox cable is a better match for the Senns. It maximizes the velvety and airy nature of the Senns and fixes its perceived lack of bass.

 The Cardas cable alters the basic character of the Senns. Some of the changes are favorable, and some aren't. I think it tries to fix what is better served by purchasing another headphone such as a Grado.*_ 

 I currently own the Equinox and agree with ND's charaterization of it here, and I also once owned the Cardas too and found that ND's summary of it is what I thought as well. I'm afraid the Zu will try to do the same as the Cardas. Any honest thoughts?


----------



## Edwood

I honestly cannot give a pure A/B comparison. I simply do not want to yank the connectors and swap cables alot, due to how fragile the socket spring is.

 Although since Iron_Dreamer is getting an HD600 soon, I'm sure we can do a nice A/B comparison between stock cable and Zu cable.

 -Ed


----------



## tom hankins

Sean H, going by your comments, I think you should stick with the equinox for your HD650. Maybe you already have your bird in the hand? I think the Zu does open the sound up at both ends of the frequency range. Although I don't think they are lacking in body, they are not as heavy or dark sounding as the equinox.


----------



## Axel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Guild _
*Wide spread discussion won't happen until the first batch starts arriving at peoples doorsteps. * 
 

I preordered the silver dragon - Drew ( of moon audio ) said that the first batch will be ready by Xmas - but when I contacted him last week - he said he was having some problems with the mold shop - so I guess I will receive my Xmas present AFTER Xmas 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .


----------



## Edwood

Molding?

 Do they have to injection mold the connectors around the wires?

 -Ed


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Edwood _
*
 Although since Iron_Dreamer is getting an HD600 soon, I'm sure we can do a nice A/B comparison between stock cable and Zu cable.
* 
 

Just going off the memory of what your Zu sounded like, as compared to mine with the stock cable, I'd say it makes the bass have more impact, brings the midrange a little more upfront and aggressive, and definitely extends the highs higher.


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tom hankins _
*Sean H, going by your comments, I think you should stick with the equinox for your HD650. Maybe you already have your bird in the hand? I think the Zu does open the sound up at both ends of the frequency range. Although I don't think they are lacking in body, they are not as heavy or dark sounding as the equinox. * 
 

Hey Tom- Well, you may be right. I'll only know for sure if I try it. The Zu does have a money back guarantee. Another curve ball is I plan to audition the Emmeline XP-7 soon and so I don't want to do too much at once. Thanks for all your insight on the Zu it's been very helpful.


----------



## Edwood

Got your 600's finally in time for Xmas? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Yep, I've had it for almost a week now, and it's thoroughly impressed the heck out of me, even with the stock cable.


----------



## iamdone

Just got my Zu cable last night for my HD650s. I didn't really a/b them other than initially because it seemed like too much trouble to keep changing the cables. The Zu cable actually fit pretty good, about the same pressure to insert the stock cable.

 I just listened to a few tracks with the stock cable 1st and then switch to the Zu and never switched back.

 The cable change reminded me of adding the S cable adapter to an ety ER-4P. It extended the high and lows, brought out the detail and opened up the soundstage. The main difference you'll notice is how clean and crisp the highs sound. Then you notice the bass is no longer boomy (which I thought just required more burn-in with the stock cable). It is very controlled, accurate, and deep. The last thing is the soundstage. It increased the depth and a little bit of the width. Not only is it easy to pick out each instrument, you can easily place the distance between them.

 The only issue I had with the cable is it seem just a bit bright but after burning it for 10 hours, it seems to help. I'm sure it could also be my source. I plan to keep burning in the cable to get at least a 100 or more hours on it. This will also give my headphone over 200 hours on it so they should be close to being done.


----------



## tom hankins

My Zu and HD650's really opened up after the first 100 hours. I've got close to 400 hours on both the cables and the phones and the sound is sooooooo sweet. 200 hours of this time was non-stop. The cables warm up alot by 100 hours but continue to get nicer even after the 200 hour mark. Congrats on your purchase. Your findings are the same as mine so far. In my system the bass really came on strong after 100 hours. When the Zu was new I thought the Equinox gave a much better showing with the bass. By the 150 hour mark it wasn't even close. I hope you end up as happy as I have been with my cable. Merry Christmas!


----------



## mjg

my zu is finally broken in. I'd say about 100 hours atleast... They really do warm up, and they sound pretty damn sweet! Put the cardas to shame i think... My favorite part about them is the sound stage. Put it this way, i think so highly of them I've been using my zu/hd600 them instead of my cd3000 which i love specifically for the sound stage. (Though there still isn't a fair comparison).

 The mobius really is something special, enjoy it man.


----------



## Sean H

Ok, I'm getting closer to trying out a Zu. Few more questions.

 Honestly, does the Zu sound bright to any of you?

 Do any of you feel the upper midrange/lower treble range to be in any way exagerrated or appear to be ruthlessly revealing?

 Anyone feeling like they are hearing more brightness or the like but have decided it's a trade off for how good it sounds overall?

 Does the lower midrange/upper bass seem in any way lean or thin? Is it full?

 I haven't heard all that much about the midrange, only comments about the extremes and soundstage. Is it full, natural, detailed, fleshy and accurate or does it tend to make the midrange sound thin or lifeless in any way?


----------



## iamdone

I don't think you hear much about the midrange because it sounded pretty good before with the stock cable so you notice the other things first. I still have a ways to go on burnin it in but it sounds balanced to me. I thought the bass sounded a little boomy before and now I think it sounds perfect. The mids are nice and full, just how they should be and the highs are crisp. My source is what's bright so I have to try them on a better system to give an accurate description (or the other members can give one).

 They definately provide much more detail than before. They also make for a better headphone for all genres. I thought they sounded great for classical and jazz before, but now rock albums (Audioslave, Tool, Soundgarden) sound great too. The jazz and classical albums are even better.

 The main thing is they now sound clean. Not that they sounded muddy before but now the full spectrum is brought out.

 I have no complaints. I guess you still need some people to do a direct comparison between the zu and the silver dragon. So as perfect as you think something can sound, there is always something better. Maybe the silver dragon is or isn't but it would sure take a lot to beat the zu.


----------



## Edwood

I found the bass to be a bit on the muddy side when I first got my Zu cable. That definitely clears up as the cable breaks in.

 As for harsh treble, I didn't find it harsh at all, even when brand new. And I have a total solid state setup. If anything it clears it up. With the older cable, there was a little bit of high end distortion with a really high extention, but not with the Zu.

 The mids might be a little flat when you first get it, but I agree that it does warm back up when you break it in.

 Overall, it really is pretty equal opening up of all the frequencies. Particularly the low and high end, as I always felt the 600's were pretty warm to begin with. But low end and high end was a bit lacking compared to the mids. I really feel that the headphones are better balanced across the spectrum with the Zu cable. Although, I still find it pretty warm. Which isn't a bad thing.

 -Ed


----------



## tortie

Has the problem of the ZU cable connectors not fitting properly been fixed?


----------



## Edwood

I've got a recent Zu cable (bought it in November) and My HD600's have the Ribs/nubs on the inside of the connector socket. It's a tight fit, but it fits perfectly. No wiggling once it's in. You're not going to want to take these guy in and out alot for sure.

 Then again, my Zu's are staying in my 600's for along time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 -Ed


----------



## ManiacSmile

To me it was hands down the Silver Dragon that I heard in Grado Labs this November - amazing sound, crisp, brisk, fast, very detailed but not boring, shimmering top and textured low end - at some point I thought it sounded like a refined Cardas cable. Keep in ming though, it was a Silver Dragon/HD600 combo that I plugged in my system, so I'm not sure if it will have the same effect with HD650.


----------



## mjg

wish i got a shot at hearing those at the meet, i saw them in a package, i didn't even know they were broken in and what not.


----------



## Sean H

Thanks for the reponses, guys, I appreciate it. I might go ahead and order one and give it a try, it does have that nice lengthy return policy.


----------



## davidmiya

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*Thanks for the reponses, guys, I appreciate it. I might go ahead and order one and give it a try, it does have that nice lengthy return policy. * 
 

 So, you're gonna try the Zu Cable right?


----------



## Old Pa

I got my HD650s about a month ago and burned them in on my existing excellent cardas cables. Wonderful headphones; definite improvement from the very good HD600s. My Zu Mobius was ordered on the strength of its reviews here by Tubes and others and arrived about a week ago. Promotional price was a plus. Excellent build and fitment. Forced burn-in for 24 hours with XLO Reference Recordings burn-in track. Since then it's been pure pleasure. WOW! At least two levels closer to the recording. It's a slightly heavier and stiffer cable than the Cardas, but microphonics have been minimal. What others have described as bright is to me the sound of the silver conductor. Very fast. Extended frequency range, but in no way harsh. Excellent visceral bass. Musical. This is my new standard. Amazing and pleasant how this hobby keeps renewing itself.


----------



## Edwood

Yeah, the brightness smooths out after break in.

 It really does put to rest the notion that the 600's are too laid back. 

 Well, provided you put some real amplification behind them.

 Iron_Dreamer can attest to that. He was hooked when he plugged them into his Gilmore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed


----------



## Old Pa

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Edwood _
*Well, provided you put some real amplification behind them.
* 
 

In my case that would be an AudioValve RKV Mk II.


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Edwood _
*

 Iron_Dreamer can attest to that. He was hooked when he plugged them into his Gilmore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



* 
 

And I still am! Christ! These things sound great out of my Archos to boot!


----------



## Edwood

Yeah, the Archos is pretty special, it has one of the most powerful headphone amps built into a portable player. Kicks iPod's ass in output.

 Too bad the firmware sux ass. and it's pretty big and ugly. Yay for Rockbox, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Too bad no Monkey for Archos, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cuz with it's digital SPDIF output, it would have been the perfect portable source for me. Monkey + Archos + Grace would've been great.

 Oh well.

 -Ed


----------



## iamdone

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Edwood _
*Yeah, the brightness smooths out after break in.

 It really does put to rest the notion that the 600's are too laid back. 

 Well, provided you put some real amplification behind them.

 Iron_Dreamer can attest to that. He was hooked when he plugged them into his Gilmore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Ed * 
 

Same thing here. I have almost 100 hours on them and they no longer sound bright and the bass opened up even more. They have a nice warm sound that is crystal clear and excellent detail. Every song played though them sounds incredible.


----------



## downingp

Well add another head-fier to the world of the Zu Mobius. I just ordered mine today. I should be getting it next week.


----------



## tom hankins

Congrats on your new cables. Hope you like them as much as I do.


----------



## DarkAngel

I ordered a 6 meter Zu Mobius yesterday to go with Senn 650, had to take advantage of the introductory pricing (still ungodly expensive)

 There is no doubt that Senn 600/Cardas sounds very good (noticeably better vs stock cable) but does not have "full" treble extension/detail........all I need to do is insert my Sony 3000 on same song and hear all the treble detail that is obscured.

 I am hoping that Senn 650/Zu Mobius will split the difference between Senn 600/Cardas ---> Sony 3000 and give more treble extension but retain the relaxed musical nature I enjoy with Senn.

 That new guy NATE at Zu seems like a decent chap, he is handling a lot of phone sales calls now for Adam.


----------



## cavedave

Well guys this is not for the faint of heart.I thought about getting a new cable for my HD-650s but did not want to part with the cash.And seeing how i have some stuff laying around i spliced a grado headphone cable into my HD-650 headphone cable kinda like those companys do except i didnt make this cable .I lived with the 600 cardas set up for quite some time and it dont even come close.BEWARE though it aint that easy if you have some patience
 a set of grados you aint using go for it you wont be sorry.These sounded good with the stock cable now they are amazing.The cans i took the cable were already trashed i didnt want someone to think i would just kill a pair of grados for no reason.This cable was off a set of 125s so you dont need higher end set to sound good.The wire in 650s is a joke so it dont take a ho lot to improve
 on it. OH well just a thought.If you dont want to do this i can understand just thought a couple of you might be interested. Dave


----------



## Edwood

Removeable cables always makes tweaking alot easier. I wouldn't be brave enough to modify the upper portion of my K1000's cable for sure.

 -Ed


----------



## DarkAngel

*Team Mobius.......What are your longer term impressions now?*
 As I wait for Zu to build and ship my Mobius (there is a week or so build time now) I was interested to hear follow-up reports from members now that you have lived with Mobius for longer period of time.

 Always somewhat decieving to make inital impressions of cable with less that 200 hrs since it will always take time for cable to break in "AND" for you to adjust psychologically to new sound.

 Are you still pleased, any caveats, what's the long term bottom line? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW.......Senn did put a little more effort into stock Senn 650 cable which seems to be upgrade from Senn 600 generic cable.


----------



## tom hankins

Still loving mine in the 5-6 hundred hour mark.(second one) I may have got the first one shipped out. Adam gave it to me for free for donating a stock HD600 cable to tear apart for the building of the mobius. The first one a got had different connectors on it than the one I have now.(both ends) It didn't fit the 650 only the 600's.(650's were still a few months off) The Zu cable adds some sparkle and a little more energy to the highs, keeps the sound the same in the midrange but brings it slightly more forward and cleans the bass up even more. My comparisons are to the equinox and cardas. They are stiff though. My only complaint.


----------



## Anders

Agree with tom. I am as positive before and really like this cable. The only problem was during the pre 100 hours burn-in phase when it temporarilly gave a warmish aura, which later resolved to accurate soundstage information (or rather hall ambience). It has been stable and only changing slowly after 100 hours. 
 It hasn't become more flexible and is no good moving around with, but that was no surpirse.
 BTW, I paid for mine.


----------



## cavedave

Well guys i have about 30 hours on my grado HD-650 cable and it sounds great .By everthing you guys are saying i would say it sounds most like the zu cable no way to tell for sure I have not heard the ZU.I will say this though grado cables work real well with the HD-650s.Very nice soundstage great highs not bright.
 The bass is the best part of all very tight really brings it all togeather. Cable is also very easy to move around with. This upgrade was well worth it. Even if I would have to pay full price for the phones which I did not it would still be cheaper then the 200$ for other cables and I would say just as good or better.


----------



## davidmiya

Just a quick question for everyone, why are you jumping at the Zu Cables when the Silver Dragon cables from Moon Audio haven't come out yet? Not that the Zu Cables are bad or anything. It's just that, when you spend this kind of money, you hope to get the very best, and not 2nd...

 Why not just wait till more reviews of both cables come out?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by davidmiya _
*Just a quick question for everyone, why are you jumping at the Zu Cables when the Silver Dragon cables from Moon Audio haven't come out yet? Not that the Zu Cables are bad or anything. It's just that, when you spend this kind of money, you hope to get the very best, and not 2nd...

 Why not just wait till more reviews of both cables come out? * 
 

Two reasons:
 1)Zu has $50 off introductory pricing now.
 2)Zu has 60 day trail and great service.

 I doubt that there will be total ageement about "best" cable everyone has different tastes and different systems for headphones, you have to try yourself and see.


----------



## ooheadsoo

I think it's simply because the mobius _is_ out and getting stellar reviews. Plus zu has a big whopping warranty.


----------



## NeilPeart

I spent some time with the Zu Mobius and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon (among others) during the recent meet. While I thought the Silver Dragon was a great cable, I still preferred the Zu Mobius. In fact, I even preferred the HD600/Zu over the HD650/Silver Dragon (the Mobius was the older design that didn't fit in the HD650). I'm going to order my Mobius as soon as have some extra funds.


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NeilPeart _
*I spent some time with the Zu Mobius and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon (among others) during the recent meet. While I thought the Silver Dragon was a great cable, I still preferred the Zu Mobius. In fact, I even preferred the HD600/Zu over the HD650/Silver Dragon (the Mobius was the older design that didn't fit in the HD650). I'm going to order my Mobius as soon as have some extra funds. * 
 

That coming from a guy who happens to own 10 pairs of Zu cables!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Just yanking your chain)


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by davidmiya _
*So, you're gonna try the Zu Cable right? * 
 

Oops missed this, David. No I have't done it yet. Ordered an Emmeline XP-7 and need to see if I keep that (if it beats the Perreaux) and what my system sounds like thereafter.


----------



## Edwood

LOL, what's with the new avatar?

 -Ed


----------



## NeilPeart

Sean H Wrote:

  Quote:


 That coming from a guy who happens to own 10 pairs of Zu cables!!! 
 

I gotta confess: I love the Zu sound. However, there is a different reason for this purchase: I think Zu's use of copper/silver hybrid gives the cable a more natural sound than the all-silver Moon Audio Silver Dragon. I think I just have an aversion to pure silver, because I prefer Zu's cheaper Gede to their top-of-the-line all-silver Varial cable. And as much as I love Zu, I recently heard my dad's new Virtual Dynamics Master cables and those utterly destroy my Zu (and my buddies Cardas Neutral & Golden Reference) cables in every way. Of course, the Master cables are just a _tad_ above my budget.


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Edwood _
*LOL, what's with the new avatar?

 -Ed * 
 

Oh, I don't know, just something goofy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have two kids who watch a lot of PBS Kids programs on PBS. That last avatar I had before by the way was Dr. Cox from the NBC show Scrubs, which I figured most knew, but I had a couple people actually ask me if that was me!


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NeilPeart _
*I gotta confess: I love the Zu sound. However, there is a different reason for this purchase: I think Zu's use of copper/silver hybrid gives the cable a more natural sound than the all-silver Moon Audio Silver Dragon. * 
 

I've wondered this. Do they use separate runs of a copper conductor(s) and a silver conductor(s) or are they using silver coated copper?


----------



## Edwood

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*Oh, I don't know, just something goofy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have two kids who watch a lot of PBS Kids programs on PBS. That last avatar I had before by the way was Dr. Cox from the NBC show Scrubs, which I figured most knew, but I had a couple people actually ask me if that was me! * 
 

Yeah, I recognized your older avatar. I liked that show. Heheh.

 I still haven't decided on an avatar yet. 

 -Ed


----------



## Repious

I was seriously about to ask if your old avatar was your real pic or not.


----------



## Sean H

John C. Mcginley. I find him hilarious, he's been in a lot of movies!

 Ha ha ha!!! I think that happens to a lot of people. Markl had a pic of what I think was a member of The Monkeys for the longest time and I was kind of wondering if that was him.

 Sorry to hijak the thread!


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*I've wondered this. Do they use separate runs of a copper conductor(s) and a silver conductor(s) or are they using silver coated copper? * 
 

mostly hybrid cables are silver plated/coated copper.
 i don't think seperate runs of copper and silver strands would sound that good.


----------



## OakIris

I'm trying to decide about a replacement cable for the HD650s, too: 

 Moon Audio still doesn't seem to have a cable ready for prime time - their site continues to state "coming soon." Zu cables just shows a cable for the HD600s - does it fit the 650s? And what about the Bayley Audio DiamondBack cable for the 650s mentioned by tom hankins - it's not due out until 01/21/04, apparently, but is a whole lot more affordable than the other replacement cables - and is a product from a fellow Head-Fier. What should I buy?


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*I'm trying to decide about a replacement cable for the HD650s, too: 

 Moon Audio still doesn't seem to have a cable ready for prime time - their site continues to state "coming soon." Zu cables just shows a cable for the HD600s - does it fit the 650s? And what about the Bayley Audio DiamondBack cable for the 650s mentioned by tom hankins - it's not due out until 01/21/04, apparently, but is a whole lot more affordable than the other replacement cables - and is a product from a fellow Head-Fier. What should I buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

The Zu Mobius does indeed fit the HD650. The Baley Audio cable looks very promising but not any impressions of it at this point. A couple other big ones you didn't mention are the Cardas or Equinox cables, which are both very good. I have the Equinox right now and like it a lot. Seems the new cables are taking the center stage right now but I'd encourage you to consider the Cardas or Equinox too. As to which one you should buy I think you need to definitely read all the impressions and comments that have been made about all the various cables to date or take the plunge and try one or more out. Equinox, Cardas, Zu and Baley all have generous money back gurantee/trial periods.


----------



## OakIris

Thanks, Sean H. I have an Equinox replacement cable for my Senn HD590s and have no problem with it. 

 The main cable replacement contenders for the HD650s, however, seem to be the as yet unavailable Silver Dragon (Moon Audio) cable and the Zu Mobius cable. I remain intrigued by the Bayley Audio cable, however - I currently have some MagWire interconnects and a MagWire headphone extension cable from Jim Hess and really like them, (though I haven't had a chance to burn them in as yet,) and since Chris of Bayley uses magnet wires, too, I was hoping for some impressions of his (also not yet available 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) replacement cable! 

 I guess I'll have to make a decision and just give them a try - both Zu and Bayley Audio seem to have generous return policies.


----------



## Sean H

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*The main cable replacement contenders for the HD650s, however, seem to be the as yet unavailable Silver Dragon (Moon Audio) cable and the Zu Mobius cable.* 
 

Yikes! I don't think that is at all the consensus of most HD650 owners or Head Fi as a whole. The newer cables certainly are quite popular right now but I think even Tom Hankins, SACD Lover and many others who have a Zu Mobius that have owned/heard an Equinox would say it is not a contender for the HD650! Even if one hadn't heard the Equinox I don't think anyone has ever said it's not a good choice for the HD650. Did you hear somewhere that it is not supposed to be competitive with the newer, more popular cables? The Equinox works great with the HD650's. There was a nice mini-review just the other day from a HD650/Equinox owner. I know I am an owner of one here and it looks like I'm trying to defend the castle but if your sentiment is the conscious of people here at Head-Fi it's sadly wrong.


----------



## OakIris

Ooops - I didn't mean that the Equinox wasn't a good cable, nor that it wasn't in contention for the "best" replacement cable. I guess that in most of the recent threads I've read about replacement cables (such as Tuberoller's review, etc.,) though the Equinox cable is mentioned favorably, it seems to get lost amongst the posts about the Zu Mobius and the Silver Dragon, so I sort of lost sight of it.


----------



## cavedave

For any of you guys who can solder and have an extra HD-650
 cable laying around grado labs told me they will send a 325 cable for only 35$. You may think the idea is corny but I can tell you.Youwould not be sorry.So far my cable is very natural sounding it really brings out what is good about the HD 650s.My wife also reminded me that most people dont like the idea of cutting cables
 apart.I guess I dont think much about it been doing it more then 40 years OH well just thought someone would want to know


----------



## Hirsch

I just ordered a 2.5 meter Zu Mobius, and found that the intro pricing is still in effect ($199 for 2.5 m) even though it's not posted on the site. This could be discontinued at any time (but they haven't decided when).


----------



## davidmiya

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*I'm trying to decide about a replacement cable for the HD650s, too: 

 Moon Audio still doesn't seem to have a cable ready for prime time - their site continues to state "coming soon." Zu cables just shows a cable for the HD600s - does it fit the 650s? And what about the Bayley Audio DiamondBack cable for the 650s mentioned by tom hankins - it's not due out until 01/21/04, apparently, but is a whole lot more affordable than the other replacement cables - and is a product from a fellow Head-Fier. What should I buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

 The guy from Moon Audio told me he'd send a mass mailer sometime this month to inform us of shipment. The production difficulties should be resolved soon... according to him...


----------



## OakIris

I will be patient (maybe!) The stock cable isn't horrible by any means, so it's not as if I am suffering. I'm hoping someone will have the opportunity to do a review of the various cables that includes the Diamond Back by Bayley Audio. I realize the best thing would be to audition them myself, but I can't afford to buy all 4 cables so I can A/B them to see which one I like the best with my system and my ears...


----------



## Edwood

I looooved Tuberoller's cable shootout. It was very well done, and with lots of pictures to boot.

 It's what led me to buy the Zu cable.

 -Ed


----------



## OakIris

I'm still trying to make a decision about what cable to get for my HD650s. By the time I make up my mind, I probably won't have the $$ to buy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have read Tuberoller's great review of the various cables currently available (or at least available to him, in the case of the Moon Audio cables) a couple of times now, and have some questions.

 He mentions that the Moon Audio headphone plug is loose in locking headphone jacks and that the looseness gets worse, causing a problem with static & RFI. And yet, he otherwise had nothing bad to say about the cable. Should this cable be eliminated just on the basis of the plug? (Do all headphone amps have a "locking jack" - ?? If not, is this problem just with locking jacks??)

 I am planning to get a SinglePower MPX3 amp when I can afford it. Tuberoller said that the Silver Dragon was superb with the Wheatfield and Supra amps. He also said that, due to the "midrange bump," the Zu cable sounded "a bit out of balance with the Tubed amps." And yet he went on to say that he loved the combo of the Mobius with the Supra amp. So, which cable will sound better with tube amps?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 O.K., I know that no one here can make up my mind for me, but I'm just trying to get more input from all of the knowledgeable people here.


----------



## tom hankins

I use the Zu cabled HD650 with the Singlepower SDS and the combo is very good. If your worried, why not wait until you get the amp and then order one of the cables with the money back offer. If you like it keep it, if not try another one. Both the Equinox and Zu sound very good with the singlepower amp and HD650's.
 BTW, there is a very good deal on a MPX3 and good tubes in the gear for sale forum. Good luck.


----------



## OakIris

Thanks for the info about the MPX3 for sale, tom; I don't have the money for it right now so I'll have to pass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Someone is going to get a really nice amp!

 Also, another vote for the Zu Mobius or Equinox! Maybe I should flip a coin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any problems with the fit of those really cool looking aluminum connectors on the Zu cable? I think Tuberoller (or someone else) said they had been redesigned to fit the HD650s better....


----------



## OakIris

Just ordered the Zu Mobius cable. Guess I couldn't resist the really cool aluminum connectors. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, I figured that all the people here that like the cable can't be wrong, that the 60-day return policy made the purchase a no-brainer, and, since I have a loaner prototype MPX3 to try it out with, I'll know in plenty of time whether or not the cable works with my system.






 (Where IS that HD650 smiley, anyway?)


----------



## tourmaline

Ok, the way i see it:

 reading all posts of the zu and the silverdragon, the zu might be best for solid state amps because mostly they are less warm sounding then tube amps. silver dragon might be a bit better for the people who have a tube amp. tube amps are mostly warmer sounding and the detail of the siver dragon will fit the bill very well.

 either way, reading alot of stuff about the aftermarket cables, i think the zu and the silver dragon are the best.

 about the silver dragon: i think they are working out things in progress. so, they might solve that problem as well.


----------



## jude

[size=xx-small] Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*....He mentions that the Moon Audio headphone plug is loose in locking headphone jacks and that the looseness gets worse, causing a problem with static & RFI. And yet, he otherwise had nothing bad to say about the cable. Should this cable be eliminated just on the basis of the plug?....* 
 

[/size]I currently have a Silver Dragon installed, and the plug on this one isn't loose in any of the amps I've tried it with so far. The jack on the ASL Twin Head Mark II actually grips it with authority.


----------



## OakIris

Quote:


 reading all posts of the zu and the silverdragon, the zu might be best for solid state amps because mostly they are less warm sounding then tube amps. silver dragon might be a bit better for the people who have a tube amp. 
 

This is one of the reasons that Tuberoller's review confused me a bit - saying at first that the Zu Mobius wasn't the best with tube amps and then saying that the Zu and the Supra - which is definitely a tube amp - made a wonderful combination and was "one of [his] favs!"


----------



## DarkAngel

Ok, got my Zu Mobius today........will post some high rez photos of cable details tomorrow morning. Fit with Senn 650 is very snug
 and requires firm steady pessure to fully insert, won't have to worry about this cable coming loose.

 One thing I can say with absolute certainty, the Mobius blows the stock Senn 650 cable out of the water. I realize it costs a fortune but surprising had easily it surpasses stock cable in every respect.

 The break in process has begun.


----------



## tom hankins

DarkAngel, Congrats on the arrival of your new cables. On my system, even out of the box, the first thing I noticed was everything from the upper midrange up opening up. The bass with the Zu took awhile to really get in the groove. Good at first, then a little flat and now EXCELLENT. Have fun!
 BTW, my BSSR cables hit today also.(about an hour ago)


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

I was pondering getting a Mobius or Silver/Blue Dragon, but I now may go with the Jan Meier Oehlbach cable, since it's only $55, assuming the early adopters think the sound is still a significant improvement.


----------



## sawdin

Iron Dreamer wrote:
  Quote:


 I was pondering getting a Mobius or Silver/Blue Dragon, but I now may go with the Jan Meier Oehlbach cable, since it's only $55, assuming the early adopters think the sound is still a significant improvement 
 

Have you read any reviews of this cable? Great price....and it's 10'. The Mobius special price of $199 is only for 8'...not sure if that will reach the couch
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dino


----------



## Edwood

Links?


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

http://home.t-online.de/home/meier-audio/cables.htm

 No known reviews yet, since this cable is hot off the iron


----------



## OakIris

DarkAngel - looking forward to your photos of the Zu Mobius! Hoping to get my cable next week....

 Iron_Dreamer - Read about the Meier Oehlbach replacement cable today in a thread posted here. $55 instead of $199+ - great price, and it sure will be ironic (?) if this cable turns out to be as good as or better than the other much more expensive cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I sure hope some reviews of the Meier come out before my 60 day trial period is up with the Zu Mobius. (That's a hint, Iron_Dreamer - buy the cable and give us a review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Iron_Dreamer _
*I was pondering getting a Mobius or Silver/Blue Dragon, but I now may go with the Jan Meier Oehlbach cable, since it's only $55, assuming the early adopters think the sound is still a significant improvement. * 
 

well, that might be a good choice. however if you spend money on getting an aftermarket cable you'd better get the best. if the cable isn't up to your expectations, you will loose money to buy another "better"one. oelbach makes good cables, but i seriously don't think they make the best cables around.

 so, that's why i still try to figure out wich is best for me. zu mobius or silverdragon, but i do know that of all aftermarket cables the zu and silverdragon are the best.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (thus far
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## DarkAngel

*Senn 650/Zu Mobius Photos*

Mobius 1 

Mobius 2 

Mobius 3 

 (press view full size button)


----------



## Repious

Your links are dead :/


----------



## Sean H

Oddly enough they were working a few minutes ago and suddenly now they do seem to be dead.

 Dark Angel- looking forward to your comments. Being the silver-o-holic you are I'll bet they are right up your alley!!


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*Oddly enough they were working a few minutes ago and suddenly now they do seem to be dead.

 Dark Angel- looking forward to your comments. Being the silver-o-holic you are I'll bet they are right up your alley!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Should be working now.........for some reason Yahoo won't allow you to link full size photos, so have to settle for reduced size.


----------



## tourmaline

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Senn 650/Zu Mobius Photos

Mobius 1 

Mobius 2 

Mobius 3 

 (press view full size button) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Nice pictures!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the cable looks nice too.


----------



## Edwood

Nice pics, DarkAngel.

 It's a pretty thick and heavy cable, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love the machined aluminum connectors. 

 The "collar" where they have the "Zu Mobius" logo looks like a prime place to put a shirt clip or somthing. I tried my Ety's clip, but it's too small to fit without major modifications. I emailed Adam my suggestion for a shirt clip due to the weight of the cable.

 -Ed


----------



## Iron_Dreamer

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
* (That's a hint, Iron_Dreamer - buy the cable and give us a review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) * 
 

I would, but I don't have any of the other cables to compare it to, only the stock cable. I might still just buy it anyway, though, since it is so (comparatively) cheap.


----------



## Edwood

Well you can compare it to my HD600 Zu's on the 18th.

 -Ed


----------



## DarkAngel

A couple quick observations:

 -don't worry about cable being too stiff/heavy etc, it really is no problem compared to Clou

 -not only does Mobius embarass the stock Senn 650 cable it surpasses the Cardas in about every respect by smaller but noticeable amount, it just passes more musical info......no weakness yet found, sounds great, break-in continues.


----------



## cavedave

Well guys you may not care but I will share anyway. Just got done making my second cable this one I used the cable off of the grado 325 which I ordered from grado for 35$ works great and sounds great. For anybody who wants to know the wires in the new HD650 cable are indeed the same wires as in the old HD600
 cable I have taken both apart the outside a little diffrent inside is the same.I had to order a cable from Headroom all they have are the old they work very well to make upgrade cable.The ends fitt real well in the new phones and as far as I can tell no diffrence in sound.These cables work real well together. I have come to the conclusion that cable up grades do help the HD650s and that these are just awesome headphones that do everthing well.
 Dont bother to tell me you disagree you would be wrong and I dont care.I just really like these headphones for more reasons then just another pretty face.


----------



## OakIris

cavedave - Glad to hear tht you have had good luck splicing in the Grado cables to make replacement cables for your Senn headphones. Everyone seems to agree that the Senn HD650 headphone benefits from a replacement of the stock cable. Maybe someday I'll get to the point of making my own cables, too - in the meantime, I'm looking forward to receiving my Zu Mobius cable for my HD650s.


----------



## Edwood

I only had the stock cable before, so for me it's a huuuuuge increase in stiffness and weight. It's manageable though. 

 I find the mid bass quite a bit muddy at first, but clears up as it breaks in. I never found this cable to be overly bright or harsh i any way. I get more treble for sure, but it's smoooooooth.

 -Ed

  Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*A couple quick observations:

 -don't worry about cable being too stiff/heavy etc, it really is no problem compared to Clou

 -not only does Mobius embarass the stock Senn 650 cable it surpasses the Cardas in about every respect by smaller but noticeable amount, it just passes more musical info......no weakness yet found, sounds great, break-in continues. *


----------



## DarkAngel

*Break-in is now complete*
 OK...........have 120+ hours on the Zu Mobius and haven't really noticed any "big" change from initial listen, sound just evened out and became more coherent. Despite the extremely high price this is pretty much mandatory upgrade.

 The improvement over stock cable is extremely easy to hear, the bass is deeper/tighter and more detailed, the treble also is noticeably more extended without any brightness/glare. The overall effect is a more detailed and dynamic sound, but still retaining a natural relaxed musicality retaining the beautiful midrange Senn users love..........classic Senn 650/600 sound taken to the next level.

 The Zu also edges out the Cardas with better fine detail retreval and slightly more dynamic sound (more extended treble/bass) Again this is accomplished without sacrificing the natural musicality the Senn 650/600 is known for............I slightly prefer the Zu over Cardas, it is worth a little more money if you must have the best.

 My listening done with Headroom 2002 Max (using crossfeed) and Senn 650


----------



## DarkAngel

*Bump*
 My Senn 650/Zu Mobius sounds so good will have to sell off some of my other headphones which will never see use again.

*New Mobius owners please report in*
 (we know you are out there)


----------



## lextek

I was told mine will ship by Thursday.


----------



## NeilPeart

I recently received my Zu Mobius and it's just as amazing as I remember it from the meet. The detail, the extension and the musicality is all there, and it looks sexy too. I will post some more detailed impressions and some crappy webcam pics soon. When I upgrade from the HD 580 to the HD 650 I will be in for a greater reward (and damn does the Mobius' silvery look match the 650 well or what)!


----------



## DarkAngel

Neil
 The aesthetic details of the Zu Mobius cable are very high (as usual from Zu). The machined aluminum R/L headphone connections look sweet plugged into Senn 650/600 also the cable yoke where cable spilts into R/L with the cool Zu logo puts others to shame.

 Plus the glistening silver that shows through the black mesh cable jacket looks like fine audio jewelry......el sweeto

 I got 20ft Mobius to eliminate using cable extension from main audio rack........this cost me a bloody fortune (almost as much as Senn 650)


----------



## Hirsch

Mobius still breaking in, but definitely a major improvement over stock, and quite revealing of the differences between HD-600 and HD-650. Yesterday a friend and I A/B'd HD-600/Cardas, HD-600/Mobius, and HD-650/Mobius (three different headphones we moved around as needed). Source was VPI Scout, amp was EAR HP4 (we had two to four headphones going simultaneously). In the HD-600, the Cardas clearly showed a dimished midrange. Music was thinner, with less dimentionality. The Mobius clearly delineated improvements in the HD-650 over the HD-600 throughout the frequency response. Same sound, just better.


----------



## tortie

Quote:


 _Originally posted by jude _
*I currently have a Silver Dragon installed, and the plug on this one isn't loose in any of the amps I've tried it with so far. The jack on the ASL Twin Head Mark II actually grips it with authority. * 
 

Jude can you give your brief impressions with the Silver dragon? I think only Tuberoller has gotten them and posted some impressions so far.


----------



## Sean H

EDIT


----------



## Tuberoller

Quote:


 _Originally posted by OakIris _
*This is one of the reasons that Tuberoller's review confused me a bit - saying at first that the Zu Mobius wasn't the best with tube amps and then saying that the Zu and the Supra - which is definitely a tube amp - made a wonderful combination and was "one of [his] favs!"




* 
 

Please re-read the review. Nope, the Zu wasn't the absolute best with tube amps(I'm going with the Silver Dragon) but it did sound very good with the Supra. I hope this causes no further confusion.

 Edit: the Silver Dragon I was using was later used at a meet and the problem with the jack was evident. I was told that subsequent production models had this probelm resolved in a satisfactory manner.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*I'd like to hear your thoughts on what the cable does with tonality, midrange (fullness) and that critical area in the upper mids and lower treble — where things can get a bit too much of it's WIDE open or even exaggerated here. Ever get the feeling this cable is weighed too much toward leading edge definition? So, besides the hifi and the fireworks, how's the music? You don't have an Equinox do you? Still undecided as to whether I want to try this cable or not. * 
 

Midrange fullness is the strength of the cable. It's where it really showed the Cardas up (I don't have the Equinox). Definitely not too much "edge enhancement", at least with HP4. If I was going to use this setup indefinitely, I'd go for brighter tubes in the HP4, as the sound was still on the dark side, and I'd want to liven it up for long-term use. IMO the 650/Zu combines better with the Supra than HP4. However, the HP4 is tubed for R10 and Grado's right now, so it's hard to say what the potential is.


----------



## tom hankins

To my ears, the Zu cable makes the HD650's what I've been searching for in a headphone. With the SDS amp and either the Cary, Audio Aero or the Modified Shanling CDP's these phones are nothing short of AWESOME. They have got me to the point where I will buy another pr. and get another Zu cable for the system I have in my computor room now. I'm glad to hear that other people with different kinds of gear are hearing the same things I have been. Right now I'm using the 650/Zu with either the Cary/SDS system or with a Rega Jupiter/Gilmore V2SE and they sound great with both.


----------



## Sean H

EDIT


----------



## iamdone

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*Alright, alright, geez. I give up, I guess I have to give this cable a try. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to try the Baley Cable as well...when does it ever end. If your HP4 is tubed to be a little darker for the R10 and Grado's, it likely has a similar tone and balance to my Perreaux amp which is richer and ever so slightly darkish at times. My source is very balanced.

 Two questions: Does anyone know when the $199 Mobius special will end and am I going to ruin my HD650's trying to get the connectors to fit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

I don't know if I got lucky, but my Mobius fit better than the stock. I only tried swapping then out once more to do a comparison and it seemed both cable were easier to work with the second time.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Sean H _
*Two questions: Does anyone know when the $199 Mobius special will end and am I going to ruin my HD650's trying to get the connectors to fit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Not even Zu Cable knew for sure when the promotional price would end, when I talked to them.

 You won't ruin your 650's. Just make sure everything is lined up right. The dots on the connectors go on the outside of the headphone. Red is on the right... The headphone will be fine. Your nerves, particularly when you start to apply force, are another story entirely...


----------



## NeilPeart

The Mobius is a nerve-stompingly tight, even on my HD580 (which is a bit easier to work with than the HD650). After about 50 hrs. break-in it's starting to sound like one from the meet - amazing. I realize some may think it foolish to pair the 580 with the Zu, but it honestly sounds better than a stock HD600 (and probably even better than the HD600/Cardas, IIRC). I'll need to borrow my dad's HD600/Cardas combo before I can say that with absolute certainty (is there ever absolute certainty in this hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)? I'll be posting a couple bad webcam shots of the cable, which I'll update when my camera returns from my sister's possession (or maybe not, since DarkAngel's shots were damn good). Enjoy your Zus everyone.


----------



## DarkAngel

Hey Neil,
 How old are those Senn 580........yours have nice wire mesh speaker covers like Senn 600, mine are molded plastic


----------



## NeilPeart

I bought the metal grills from Sennheiser for $10 (shipped) or so and replaced the plastic ones with these (for looks and possible sonic improvements).


----------



## gswpete

Whoa! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Neil, is there a link where you can buy the grills? 
 I don't think it's on the Sennheiser USA site.


----------



## NeilPeart

Call this number: (860) 434-9190 (in CT) and ask for the "HD600 Decorative Grill," part # 74573. The grills are $2.66 each the shipping is $4.00, so the total price for me was $9.32, which I paid with my credit card. The package arrived about a week later. Honestly, I cannot say whether I noticed any improvement, but they're probably as close to the HD600 as they're gonna get (and they looker better too, IMO). The Zu is the tweak that was definitely not subtle.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NeilPeart _
*Call this number: (860) 434-9190 (in CT) and ask for the "HD600 Decorative Grill," part # 74573. The grills are $2.66 each the shipping is $4.00, so the total price for me was $9.32, which I paid with my credit card. The package arrived about a week later. Honestly, I cannot say whether I noticed any improvement, but they're probably as close to the HD600 as they're gonna get (and they looker better too, IMO). The Zu is the tweak that was definitely not subtle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



* 
 

Do wire grills come with plastic frame that just friction/snap fits from the outside? Easy to take on/off?


----------



## Glassman

heh everything in HD580-HD650 snaps like a charm, no screws or something.. I can say I couldn't hear any difference between HD580 of mine and friend's HD600, but changing stock cable for any of my prototypes made a clear difference.. in fact there's no reason for buying the overpriced HD600 when you can get HD580 + cable instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes, even we have used HD600 griles with HD580 and vice versa with no apparent sonic difference.. nothing surprising.. everyone can try how does it sound with different griles simply removing the griles altogether..


----------



## mjg

nowdays the HD600 seems to cost what the 580 did before the 650's came out. I really wouldn't call them overpriced. Also, in a higher end system, the HD600s do sound better, and adding the cable will make a greater difference. What would you save by getting the 580's lately, 30 dollars?

 I'd go with HD600's.


----------



## Glassman

yes, you're right, now there is almost no difference in their prices.. it was meant almost jokingly, just to stress that sonical difference between them is so slight if any at all to justify the price difference.. this is definitely not true with aftermarket cables, which price is a lot more easily justified by sound gains..


----------



## kyrie

the street price nowadays is about:

 HD580 - $150
 HD600 - $230 (yes, it went up again)

 So yeah. HD580 is still the way to go, in terms of "bang for the buck."


----------



## mjg

glassman,
 have you tried shooting them out on a pretty high end rig? There are some differences, because though they are pretty much the same, they have the matched drivers and metal grills that make something of a difference. I think the 650 craze has undermined how good of cans the 600s are, but with the 600/zu combo (which i plan to use as my second setup) You really get something special. I have yet to try it with the 580s, but neilpeart seems tothink the cable transforms them too into something real special too.
 Perhaps the difference is neglibile? I don't know, but the cables really really make me dig them even more : ]


 BTW if you want to get the 600s, for 180, shop smart and find them. Audio advisor has proved they will bend over backwards to please a customer, and do in fact negotiate price. Is this news to most of you? I


----------



## gswpete

Thanks Neil. I'm gonna call up Sennheiser and get new grills 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I guess potentially, this could be a pretty cost effective upgrade


----------



## zeplin

adding the Zu Mobius cables to the HD650 made me have that same special feeling as when i first realized what a masterpiece JRR Tolkien's LOTR books were. right off the bat, i noticed a huge jump in realistic detail...detail that would rightfully fill in/add to the sound of cymbals being crashed together...on the new dave mathews album the cymbals crash and fade out for twice as long as they previously did on other phones. these cables are showing me what really is there. again, using the cymbals sound as a reference, the Zu's bring that cymbal sound up to such a high frequency (how they really sound live) that one would think such high frequencies would be shrill and bright, almost hurting your ears. well, this is not the case. even at the very topmost frequencies, a smooth articulate sound is preserved in the great ol' Sennheiser way! 

 the bass before the Zu cable was astonishing, but adding the cable made the 650's bass that much tighter and accurate with faster decay. any extremely fast bass note can easily stop and start on whatever is smaller than a dime
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the drum kicks on some DMB cd's start and stop so fast that i can literally feel my ears drums kicking with the fast thumps as if my ear drums were the kick drums themselves...well they kind of are, but you know what i mean. 
 as far as the low bass notes go...
 i have this album mixed by a man named Karsh Kale, an arabian techno artist mixing traditional Indian and arabian music with modern techno (i highly suggest you guys try it out). anyways, some of the bass notes he uses go down to extreme low frequencies. on my previous headphones, there is a song on his first album that has the lowest of bass notes i've heard out of all my cd's, and it lasts for about 6 seconds. it starts probably at somewhere in the ballpark of 55Hz, and goes all the way down to a level where you only feel your ear drums vibrating and that's it...no sound. that transition is presented so smoothly with the Zu's that i am often tricked into thinking i have high quality (i.e. a sunfire true sub) sitting next to me taking care of all the really low octaves. there is never any distortion thoughout this note, and even at the bottom of the note, the phones again stop on a dime!

 like i said, the HD650's without the upgrade can still do these things pretty well. but when you attach those Zu treasures, everything steps closer to you, and at the same time it is also separated throughout a HUGE, more tremendous soundstage. the accuracy increases two fold, and the sound becomes more round as a whole. this then leads to a more rich presentation, but with a clean overall sound as well. i know, it seems like the two (being rich and warm vs. clean and neutral) could not exist together, but oh do they complete this task of making my dream headphone a reality. to put it in more simple terms...adding the upgrade cable takes every note in every part of the frequency spetrum and adds a bit more richness and detail, that again, contributes to an overall even more rich/warm/full/complete presentation.

 anyone who loves the Senn sound should eventually invest in either the Zu's, or other equally as good cables...it doesn't matter which, as long as you are able to bring out this fantastic sound. what i really like about this cable upgrade experience, is that it can convert some of those people who don't even like the Senn characteristic type of sound into a Senn lover! it doesn't happen to everyone, but the fact that it has these capabilities is truely something special. honestly, i don't really think any headphone will surpass this combination of this great cable/headphone for a very long time. other cans will come about that sound as good and different, but i doubt they will surpass it. 

 i really have Leeav (Neilpert) to thank for initially introducing me to the quality of the brand called Zu. we hung out one day, and he was going crazy over this new release of a Senn HD580/600 upgrade cable. i wondered why, why all the praise?? now i know!!! not only does the cable sound good, but it looks beautiful too. the construction is top notch. it seems like such a cable would be thick and stiff, but it is not that stiff and rigid as it looks in pictures. it flexes quite easily when it's needed...although it is a bit heavier than the stock. also, as Neilpert said, no cable has ever looked so good paired with the 650's(or any other headphone for that matter). it matches perfectly, flawlessly...it was "a match made in heaven," as they say...or, a match made in whatever blissful after life you believe in!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you know, it's very easy to condone all this hype as just simple "new product" hype. but, when you start to read everyones impressions closely, you can see that we're all basically hearing the same thing and experiencing the same improvments. that says a lot in my book


----------



## tortie

Who preordered the Silver Dragons? Its already going out this 27th.


----------



## Axel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tortie _
*Who preordered the Silver Dragons? Its already going out this 27th. * 
 

Right here! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I preordered mine on Thanksgiving!
 It better be good... not that I have any complaints regarding my current set-up using the cardas replacement cable.


----------



## pabbi1

Being a tad more frugal, I ordered the Blue Dragon. Dru already sounds whipped to get all those orders out on the 27th, but I can hardly wait.


----------



## OakIris

Hey Ricky - it would seem that you really like the HD650s and the Zu Mobius, not that you could tell from your downbeat post.


----------



## lextek

I got an email. Mine shipped today.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Zu baby


----------



## Jazz1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by lextek _
*I got an email. Mine shipped today.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Zu baby * 
 

Mine should ship Tuesday. Custom length, although they told me they were selling like hotcakes the last couple of weeks, so they didn't have any in stock.


----------



## lextek

I "won" a Pivot cable off of Ebay from them. They adjusted the size to .5 meter for me. Seems like a great company to deal with. Might have to try some ICs....


----------



## Renato-CWB

Hi all,  this is my first post in this forum and I dare waking up this thread after more than six years..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I am currently trying to find up-to-date information and comparisons between the MOON AUDIO SILVER DRAGON and the new MOBIUS SENN MK2 (which I understand to be the successor of the Zu Mobius).  Even though this thread does have some very interesting comments, I imagine that someone might have some updated information about the most recent versions of the mentioned cables.
   
  As a matter of fact I am interested in this subject because I am looking for the cable for my HD-650, driven by a solid state M^3 amplifier.
   
  Any information and recommendations will be highly apreciated.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks,
   
  Renato,  Curitiba - BRAZIL


----------



## Renato-CWB

Nobody??


----------

