# The RSA Protector balanced portable: Images and impressions 1st page, Please post your impressions . .



## jamato8

Well it looks to be coming together very nicely. 

 The amp can be seen to have a balanced output and a single ended output. The connector covers the single ended output when the balanced cable is used as the amp is not meant to drive both balanced and single ended at the same time. 












 Capable of driving IEM's and Headphones with an improved swing voltage of approximately 14 to 16 volts and plenty of current. The size is the same as the Predator. 

 Lifetime warranty.

*Impressions and thoughts on the Protector:*

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 I received my Protector today. So that I could immediately listen to my balanced HD600 and HD650, Ray included an adapter. As of right now, the balanced HD600 and HD650 are the only headphones I have here that I can use with the Protector (in balanced mode).

 Using my MacBook Pro-->*Amarra*-->*Lavry DA11 DAC*-->*Cardas Clear XLR (female)-RCA adapter*-->*Cardas iLink mini-RCA-RCA cable*-->*Protector*-->*Sennheiser HD600* and *Sennheiser HD650* (both balanced), I'm having some difficulty believing what I'm hearing.

 At least where the HD600 and HD650 are concerned, this amp may dispel the commonly held (and generally true) notion that a portable headphone amp cannot drive these headphones like a good desktop amp. To my ears, with these headphones, that bridge has been crossed, and you're going to be reading similar comments from others a lot about this amp, as more and more people get their ears on it. Macro- and microdynamically, the Protector is desktop-sounding with the HD600/650--highly resolving, effortless, powerful, nuanced. (I've so far only listened to the Protector/HD600/HD650 combos in balanced mode--I'll try single-ended later.) 

 I listened to my JH Audio JH13 Pro and Ultimate Ears UE18 Pro with it just briefly (and single-ended only, as I have yet to order my balanced cables for those), and the initial impressions were excellent (again, just a very brief listen), and the channel balance is perfect.

 Next up: Contact *Whiplash Audio* for Protector-terminated balanced cables for my JH13 Pro and UE18 Pro. If *Moon Audio* has the plugs, I may go for an HD800 cable terminated that way to see how the Protector does with the very picky HD800.

 So far, this amp is sort of like a....a PortApache. And anyone who heard the balanced JH13 Pro/Apache system at RMAF will tell you how stunning that setup was. I'm hoping for some such magic done portably, when I get the JH and UE pieces wired up for balanced. We'll see, but this sounds promising so far. 

 I've been listening to this thing for hours--it's 4:23 a.m., I should be asleep, but I can't put it down._

 




 __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
 Quote:
*Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict* March 21

 Blutarsky, Sherwood and I did a mini-meet Saturday to listen to our custom IEM on the Pico Slim and Protector. Blutarsky owns the ES3X and Sherwood has JH13Pro, while I own both. Remember, the ES3X are a more forward and revealing IEM, and JH13Pro are a more laid back IEM with a little bump in the bass We all tried each amp with stock cable and with a 125 hour TWag cable. We used a single ended TWag adapter with both amps, and also tried them balanced with Protector.

 Blutarsky thought the ES3X had a little better synergy with the Pico Slim because the mids and treble are smoother and not too forward while the bass is very strong (paraphrasing). Sherwood seemed to feel the Protector had a little better synergy with the JH13Pro because it filled in the mids and didn't bump the bass too much like the Pico Slim. I agreed with both of them, and it's interesting that they didn't read my post above where those were the same things I noticed when I compared them. 

 Interestingly, my bass heavy UE11Pro are not excessively bassy with Slim or Protector, as the amps seem to improve bass control so that it doesn't sound sloppy. Mind you, I can listen to any of these amps with any of my IEM and enjoy them; but many of us will have different preferences for which amp we grab first depending on their synergy with the IEM we own.

 Quote:
 Originally Posted by jamato8: 
 So was the impression the same with the Protector in single ended and balanced?

 Quote:
*Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict:* March 21

 I'm including my previous comments for continuity and so I can link in my public profile to this one post that will have all my impressions in one spot, without making a new thread:

 SE vs balanced didn't affect the synergy with the various IEM. I did feel the balanced mode was a little wider and deeper soundstage than SE mode, while Blutarsky agreed he felt the differences were not huge. I don't recall exactly what Sherwood said in that regard. 

 With HD600 the Protector balanced mode is noticeably better than single ended, and the synergy with HD600 is fantastic. The Slim struggled more to drive the HD600, but it did respectably well with the HD800 - the frequency response of the HD800 on the Slim was a little nicer than Protector with W-A cable, but not nearly as powerful as the Protector. With HD800 in balanced mode the Protector was slightly bright with my Warren Audio cable but powerful enough - I haven't had time to try the HD800 with stock cable and 4-pin XLR with balanced Protector yet.
 I needed to re-write my most recent comments above, but wanted to save the original post above to show that I am not changing anything or back-peddling, but mearly clarifying what I meant to say:

 The impressions were not the same using balanced vs single ended, and we listening to the Protector both ways. Balanced was better. But, SE vs balanced didn't affect the synergy with the various IEM. To me, the synergy is how well the frequency response characteristics of the amp and IEM mate with each other. The ES3X sound best on an amp that is a little more laid back in the mids as they have a bump or plateau in the 2K - 8K range and roll off some after that; and the JH13Pro sound best with an amp that is a little more energetic in the mids, as these IEM are a little less forward in the 1K - 5K range than the ES3X (fortunately the 6K peak is short and not very audible). I've always called the ES3X an HD800 in an IEM with it's more prominent and crisp mids, while I've said the JH13Pro are more like an O2 Mk1 in an IEM, with the bass a little more more prominent than it's mids.

 However, I did feel the Protector's balanced mode gave all the IEM a little wider and deeper soundstage than SE mode; and while Blutarsky agreed with that, he felt the differences were not as huge as I thought they were. I don't recall exactly what Sherwood said in that regard. It's generally accepted that IEM have more headstage and less soundstage than full size headphones, because the pinna of the ear is not involved in imaging and so HRTF are out the window. I think that it's much easier to hear the benefits of using balanced mode with full size phones than with IEM; but the fact that the soundstage opens up and becomes wider, deeper and more transparent at all when switching from single ended to balanced with an IEM is more significant than I may have made it out to be. It shows that the amp's channel separation and micro-detail is improved in balanced mode; so that cues involved in air, ambience and space are improved, despite using IEM that only present the sound deeply in the ear canal.

 With HD600 the Protector balanced mode is noticeably better than single ended, and the synergy with HD600 is fantastic. The Slim struggled more to drive the HD600 in terms of power, but Justin has made it clear that it is designed primarily with IEM in mind. The Slim did respectably well with the HD800 in terms of synergy, where the frequency response of the HD800 with Warren Audio cable on the Slim was a little nicer than Protector, but it was not nearly as powerful as the Protector. The Slim was mostly good for quiet to medium volume levels, where its frequency response matches the HD800/WA cable in a pleasant and enjoyable way at low to medium volumes. I would still take the HD800 balanced with Protector over single ended off the Slim, because of the improved soundstage, imaging and power. 

 It needs to be said that in my Warren-Aduio (AKA Fidelity-Audio) HD800 cable review I noted that the aftermarket cable increased the detail and treble levels of the HD800. This was easy to tune a full size tube amp to match it, but a solid state amp's state of tune is fixed and you can only tune it with the source and cables. I've always maintained that like to use a warm DAC and tubes with my HD800. Even with as much as I have gushed about my Nuforce HDP with HD600 and HE-5, it doesn't perform as well with my HD800 as my WA6 or ZDT (nor does my Amphora). So it's no surprise that with HD800/WA cable in balanced mode that the Protector was slightly bright - I haven't had time to try the HD800 with stock cable and 4-pin XLR with balanced Protector yet, but this should sound less bright. 

 Last night I did try the warmer sounding uDAC as source to the Protector/HD800/WA cable, and this was a better mach, just by changing my source. In another review I've noted that the uDAC is a better DAC via RCA outputs than it is a headphone amp; and I found that the uDAC RCA out was a nice match for the eXStatA electrostatic amp and SR-Lambda, HE-60 or Jade. Now I can add the Protector/HD800/WA cable to the list of amps that do the uDAC justice. I've been using the Protector with different portable sources like DACport, Pico DAC, and iBasso D4 DAC, until last night when I added the uDAC. At this point, I do plan to try the Protector with a desktop DAC like my Apogee mini-DAC, Nuforce HDP, PS Audio Digital Link III and PS Audio Perfectwave DAC. I'd like to see how well the Protector scales up with IEM and full size phones with a desktop source. With HD800/WA cable I suspect the DLIII and PWD will be the best match, but we'll see.

 I know I will get more questions about Protector vs the Pico Slim here, but I wont be able to try the Slim further with these sources because the input jack broke and I have to send it back to Justin today. In the 4-5 months that it's been sent around the country as a demo amp it's probably seen a lifetime of plug insertions and removals, and it may have been accidentally abused as well. Some plugs really grab and hang onto the jack's contact springs, and my ALO jumbo cryo silver x iMod LOD may have been the culprit since I can barely plug it in and remove it from the Protector as well. I don't think this will be an issue for people who buy one, but I'm sorry I wont be able to provide more comparisons.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All right, so here's my WOW! moment for the day.

 My rig consists of a 2009 Classic (320 AAC) fed to the Protector via a LOD made from the same cabling as Nordost uses pushing a pair of balanced CK10's. 

 I'm on my third recharge, so guessin' 'bout 70 or so hours.

 I was listening to a Flim and the BB's track and the instrumental separation was not like I had ever heard before. On that particular recording, and some others, I literally get a sense of surround-'round-my-head. It's almost jaw droppingly amazing...(mumbles something)wait a minute...picks up jaw. I take it back, it IS jaw droppingly amazing!

 The balanced CK10's are definitely a dual-edged sword, though. On well recorded material, they sound phen-om-uh-nal! On not so well recorded stuff, well, yeah, those really sound like turds.

 I wasn't 100% certain that I would keep this amp when I first purchased it. Now, I don't see it even as a remote possibility that these will leave my hands. To get this level of sonic bliss from a (trans)portable rig blows my mind._

 

__________________

*Review*

 jamato8

 The Protector is a portable balanced amplifier taking up little more room than three 9 volt batteries side by side. Who would have thought of the need or desire for such a portable device. Can the change from single ended to a balanced amp that feeds the monitor a positive and negative signal, giving a doubled voltage swing and better driver control really be of value in a portable? 

 How far portable amps have come in a few short years. The RSA SR71 or the later SR71a, with two 9 volt batteries and a swing of 18 volts would have seemed enough but sometimes enough isn’t enough. So does a balanced portable amp taking a single ended input and outputting balanced increase the listening experience? I could answer that at the end of this or now. Why not answer now. The simple answer is yes. Everything I have balanced sounds better. Listening to live recordings of the Grateful Dead, “Closing of Winterland”, is so fresh and so “alive”, you can’t help but be drawn into the moment. The separation of the audience from the band and then the separation of the band and imaging, that I haven’t heard so well since listening to a fine speaker system or, live, is confounding. 

 Listen to Creedence Clearwater Revival "The Concert" on your choice of balanced phones. It sounds like a live feed. The pulse pulls you along on a journey that is a shear auditory joy. Some systems seem to suck the life out of the music, this amp infuses the music with life. 

 Interesting, with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 in balanced and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers newly remastered concerts, the sound has a strange (for headphones but good) depth as in height in true dimension of space. I haven't heard this on headphones before. Such an open and fluid space yet precise. I have heard phase shifts before that add an interesting slant to the music but after a while sound unnatural, this isn't that, it is a true rendering of space but in all directions.

 So why is this confounding to me? It is confounding because I had no idea there was more music, sound, depth and separation to be pulled from these recordings and especially from ear monitors. That it is there is fantastic, that it has taken so long to hear it is frustrating on one hand and rewarding, greatly rewarding, on the other. 

 Can we talk about dynamics and the bass line? The speed that the drivers are driven to will make many other amps sound impoverished by comparison. Listen to some good classical like the war horse, Beethoven’s 9th with Roger Norrington conducting. There is no collapse of the sound field. There is no thickness to the music on orchestral dynamic passages. The sound stays open and unopposed by the constraints of too little power. Violins are sweet and yet there is a harmonic bloom and flow and the music cascades to your personal audition. It can’t get much more fun or rewarding than this. 

 Jazz is something I truly enjoy. Listening to any of Scott Hamilton’s many CD’s, which some can be a little closed in sounding, a nice positive impression of his playing comes across. “No Bass Hit” has the reedy sound of Hamilton’s sax playing while the piano has the right body and feel. The brush strokes on the drums is not white noise but actually sounds like brush strokes on drums. Cymbals have the right brassy twang to them. 

 For the listening of this amp I am using my Ultrasone Edition 9, Sennheiser HD650, ESW10 JPN, and the JH13 Pros. These phones are all balanced but lest you think that the Protector is only a balanced amp, it isn’t. You can also use your single ended phones. While not as 3D, which it is in balanced, the Protector is still an excellent single ended amp. So there you have it. Any phones you don’t want to use balanced, you have an amp, and any that you want balanced, you have an amp. 

 I should mention that I achieve around 30 hours of run time and more with easy to drive monitors. It should also be noted that while the Protector is portable by size there is no reason it can’t sit at desk side pumping out the tunes. It will beg you to wonder if anything larger is or will be needed for your musical indulgence. Quite an achievement from such a small package and you will think this all the more once you place one in your hand. It is also important to know that as good as, no as excellent as the Protector is, the better the source, the better the sound. Sure it will give fine results out of a portable player and well worth it, but if you choose to use it with a home source your rewards will be even greater. The potential of this amp seems unbounded. It is neutral and puts out what it is feed so feed it good and you will be smiling to the music.

 Here is one more graphic idea of what is happening with the transducers when balanced. Take a sheet of cellophane and push on it. It is a single direction and release, it goes back to flat. In a way two dimensions. Now push one way and then the other. From the single plain, you are now going in two different directions. Now add true solid control to that movement and you can see that the transducers you are using are going to spring to greater musicality, normally. 

 The Protector I am finding, adds new life to both recordings and ear monitors. The monitors I was thinking of getting rid of got a reprieve and I got the reward. Have fun!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sasaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got Whiplash JH13 balanced cable so I can try Protector in Balanced mode.
 Now my setup is iMod 5.5G + ALO SXC cryo + RSA Protector + Whiplash SCSCag + JH13. 





 I was so impressed when I hear the sound. I have been a heavy portable amp user since I got original SR71 in 2005. But Protector provides whole new experience to me. The spatial sense is unusual I have never experienced in portable gear.
 Yes the soundstage is huge and wide but the most notable difference is on depth. The sound from this combo is not a 2D papertoy, now the sound is 3D sculpture with vivid rendering. This is a kind of magic.
 Not only imaging is amazing but also I felt the sound has a firm weight. Not faint but strong like steel.

 I remember this feeling. First time I heard balanced headphones, I felt similar feeling. That was GS-X with HD650 balanced. I think this new experience is a virtue of balanced headphones. 
 Jazz piano-trio reproduction is a strength of JH13, now this is even better than before and more life-like. Now rock sounded powerful and punchy.

 I changed cable as well, so some of the honor may goes to Whiplash (mine is SCSCag). 
 I think this cable is quite nice JH13 replacement cable. Good timbre, good bass. Sharp but not being harsh. I am thinking to get Single-ended one for HM801.
 In these days, Hifiman 801 impressed me much for its strong source circuit which employ high-end PCM1704.
 So my mind was about to lean towards the idea that the iPod based portable amp is now obsolete. But I was wrong.
 Protector proves._


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## logwed

That looks extremely nice. Do we have an ETA at this time?


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## vkvedam

What about the input?


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## logwed

It's a standard single-ended mini plug in, IIRC. The signal is balanced in the circuit.


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## kunalraiker

Could we use this with headphones such as the Sennheiser HD 25's.


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## logwed

If you can get your Sennheisers reterminated with whatever plug that is, sure. I don't exactly know how well it would be driven though. I'm pretty sure that it's intended for IEMs.


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## jamato8

Most likely but they would have to be reterminated and if they don't have 4 wires to the jack then rewired also. So it may or may not be an option. The amp is mainly for use with the many good IEM's on the market now like the JH13's and UE.


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## kunalraiker

John would this amp be something similar to what ibasso is building.


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## Kon-Masti

Could the um3x become compatible with this with the appropriate retermination?


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## Duggeh

Why isn't this in the existing, or a new sponsored thread from RSA?

 If your relationship with Ray Samuels is this tight (you're certainly a proliferate mouthpiece) then threads like this need to be considered under the MOT rules.

 Personally, I think that what you're posting here skips around the rules and needs to be curtailed.


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## jamato8

The image has already been posted elsewhere. That is where I found it. What are you worried about. Don't fret, just enjoy the music.

 If you look around you will find the same information I did. It is there for anyone to find. You sound bitter. Good music can help.


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## 909

playing possum...


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## Duggeh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The image has already been posted elsewhere. That is where I found it. What are you worried about. Don't fret, just enjoy the music.

 If you look around you will find the same information I did. It is there for anyone to find. You sound bitter. Good music can help._

 

1)

 A somewhat deft dodging of the issue. I made no comment about you posting the image. Although since you do, I would like to know exactly where it was posted first.

 "In a PM from Ray." Is not a suitable answer to that of course.


 2)

 If it's there for anyone to see, does this mean there is already a thread? If so where is it and why was the creation of this one necessary?

 If it's there for everyone to see, and there isn't already a thread, then by what qualification of the term is it "there for everyone to see"?

 Again "The photo is on the RSA website FTP." is not a suitable answer.


 3)

 What I am worried about is an (and I chose my abjective with some care) insideous circumvention of MOT posting rules. I shall be upfront and frank and say that I personally find your long term posting history to go beyond what might readily be described as fanboyism. Although I am uncertain as to if it merits description as shilling. It's certainly on the same scale as Herandu or Sovkiller in the past and we know what status they now occupy.


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## stang

looks too small :| I prefer portable amps to be same size as the player it is being used with, then it is easy to hold


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## Little Bob

Looks very interesting - Thanks Jamato, I certainly appreciate you collating this info together in one post.

 Is the four pin connector standard with any current IEMs?

 How does this sound compared to a standard jack connector?

 ...the spending never stops does it....


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## shigzeo

I think one major problem is the connector: it isn't standard with any iem, and in direct contrast with what other manufacturers are trying to accomplish. This is Windows VS OSX with the customer getting it in the nose. 

 There aren't any great options yet, but... there is work on it and it would be great if boutique manufacturers like RSA followed with where the other manufacturers are going. That, however, will not be the case and the customer will have to shell out for a cable which will only work on that amp and if s/he wants to use it on another, there will need to be an expensive interconnect purchase to facilitate it.


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## Kon-Masti

As long as the SQ delivers, which it most likely will, and people are willing to go that extra mile to achieve that SQ then some compromises will need to be made and overcome. I'm all for a manufacturer exploring non-standard equipment if it means advancing the technology. Convenience is no excuse for stagnation IMO.


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## n_maher

I think it's a good idea to have a thread outside of Ray's paid thread.

 For starters it allows to have an open discussion about the design chosen, without interrupting the paid thread. With that in mind I find it curious that Ray chose to have output resistors on the amp. You can see them in this picture.







 And also more clearly in this picture (R21, 22, 23 and 24).






 I freely admit that my techincal chops are lacking with regard to amplifier design but what I do know leads me to think that having any series resistance on the output of the amplifier, specifically an amplifier design to drive loads which could be as low as 18 ohms in the case of the UE11 Pro, is potentially troubling. It's also curious why Ray did it at all since it's not something I can recall seeing on any of his prior portables. Any resistance on the output will directly contribute to the output resistance of the amp and lower the damping factor. If it's just a couple ohms maybe that's a negligible effect, if it's much more than that it'll become a contributing factor. In other amplifiers that I have worked with this approach was only taken (as a last resort) to reduce noise/hiss. To explain it somewhat differently this essentially (to an unknown degree since the resistance is an unknown) is like having an Ety P to S converter built into the amp that you can't bypass.


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## Salt Peanuts

One man's opinions - 

The amp looks spectacularly mediocre, especially the knob and the square connector.
I'm still confused by the choice for the balanced connector. The connector/connection that doesn't rotate on a portable amp is breakage waiting to happen, never mind that it's not a standard connector that isn't used in other audio applications, AFAIK.
With the proximity of the square connector and the volume knob, I suspect it will be rather difficult for those with fat fingers to easily adjust the volume when the square connector is used.


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## TzeYang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*For starters it allows to have an open discussion about the design chosen*
_

 

OH NOES!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I personally think it's not a big deal if the resistor values are small. It provides some current limiting and at the same time, a *simple* hack for reducing hiss.

 Works better if the feedback loop controls it at the other end.

 Also, is there a specially designed battery charger for the LI-ION?

 I thought it was quite necessary seeing how sensitive they usually are.


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## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TzeYang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OH NOES!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I personally think it's not a big deal if the resistor values are small. It provides some current limiting and at the same time, a *simple* hack for reducing hiss.

 Works better if the feedback loop controls it at the other end.

 Also, is there a specially designed battery charger for the LI-ION?

 I thought it was quite necessary seeing how sensitive they usually are._

 

You are correct regarding the resistors, my friend, they are very low in value.
 They do help protect the drivers, buffers.
 As to the charging circuitry, the charger & the batteiers were designed by the same company. The charger has a RED LED when charging the battery, once fully charged the LED turns GREEN.
 Ray Samuels


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kon-Masti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As long as the SQ delivers, which it most likely will, and people are willing to go that extra mile to achieve that SQ then some compromises will need to be made and overcome. I'm all for a manufacturer exploring non-standard equipment if it means advancing the technology. Convenience is no excuse for stagnation IMO._

 

Good point.


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## The Monkey

I'm not a big fan of the proprietary balanced connector here, either. But I am a big fan of a balanced portable amp. This is the only "small" connector solution that I've seen (in my very limited experience with such things).


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## Hopstretch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kon-Masti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Convenience is no excuse for stagnation IMO._

 

Nor is expedience any excuse for poor design.


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## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not a big fan of the proprietary balanced connector here, either. But I am a big fan of a balanced portable amp. This is the only "small" connector solution that I've seen (in my very limited experience with such things)._

 

Monkey, Perhaps you've seen the connector that Apple uses (the center one)?


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## jamato8

It is a possible option, the TRRS but there aren't many options I have seen for higher quality mini's of that type.


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## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Monkey, Perhaps you've seen the connector that Apple uses (the center one)?




_

 

As Jamato8 has indicated that there is no high quality connector like the one pictured above. Even if it was available it will still have many problems that the 3.5mm connector has as contacts will get loose & the signal start cutting as you move the wire back & forth.

 I have done a long search for a reliable connector that could be used with out the pain of loose contacts & hefty price & with smallest possible size.
 The Kobiconn Used in the Protector is very reliable. It can withstand the abuse & the shake with out any problems associated with the 3.5mm connectors. It is small, sturdy, priced very low, $2.00, made in Japan for expensive Cameras.
 This connector delivers while others will suffer from all kind of problems.
 Ray Samuels


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## Dreadhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are correct regarding the resistors, my friend, they are very low in value.
 They do help protect the drivers, buffers.
 As to the charging circuitry, the charger & the batteiers were designed by the same company. The charger has a RED LED when charging the battery, once fully charged the LED turns GREEN.
 Ray Samuels_

 

What do you mean by low? 20 ohm is low compared to 20kohm but doesn't mean that 20ohm isn't large compared to a 18ohm pair of TF10.


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## luvdunhill

Why would Apple use a part that is guaranteed to fail, or comes loose? That would seriously impact their bottom line. That connector has seen an infinite more "real world" use *as a headphone cable* than the connector you using. Realistically, how many hours has the connector that you propose standardizing the entire headphone community on seen in real world use *as a headphone cable*? Is this number sufficient to uphold your claim of durability?

 As for the TRRS connectors being hard to find, that's just not true. There are even right angle connectors that would address the durability concerns you have outlined. Here is one such connector:

4 conductor 3.5mm right angle cable mount male Plug - TRRS






 Need a chassis mount as well that's low profile? Here's one


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## n_maher

Let's try to keep this non-confrontatoinal. Ray is sharing his motivation behind design choices that he made and I appreciate that even while I'm free to disagree. 

 I do share Dread's concern about the "low value" output resistors though. I have direct experience with amps that provide a low damping factor (output impedance close to driver impedance) and while it works with some headphones in my experience it also did not work with others. 

 Ray, since it's just a matter of reading the value off the resistor on the PCB would you be willing to say what the output resistance is to end that bit of speculation?


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## jamato8

The TRRS aren't hard to find, but quality ones are. The one you show is magnetic. I have the one shown, which is the most readily available but it is nickel plated and as mentioned, magnetic, which man TRS/mini plugs are.


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## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The TRRS aren't hard to find, but quality ones are. The one you show is magnetic. I have the one shown, which is the most readily available but it is nickel plated and as mentioned, magnetic, which man TRS/mini plugs are._

 

Every single resistor in this amp is magnetic!


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## jamato8

I don't know if those are or are not but I have SM resistors right here that are not and I just checked one of Rays amps and the ones I checked are not magnetic.


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## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if those are or are not but I have SM resistors right here that are not and I just checked one of Rays amps and the ones I checked are not magnetic._

 

How are you testing? Care to post some pictures? 

 The reason I say this is that I have talked with most if not all manufacturers of SMD resistors and they cannot provide a non-magnetic SMD resistor due to the nickel barrier plating on their terminals that prevent leaching during the soldering process. Just not feasible.


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## jamato8

Some nickel but the TRRS shown has a solid steel support. I tested with a super duper magnet that I use. If they have any it is very, very little and nothing like the solid steel support of the TRRS shown. Hey, it doesn't matter, what ever works is fine with me. I am back to listening to music. :^)


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## Jalo

What is TRRS?


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## The Monkey

Tip, Ring, Ring, Sleeve


----------



## smeggy

The red nail varnish is obviously an anti-magnetic coating. Finally I've figured out it's purpose


----------



## paulybatz

Not to hijack...but because Ray is a paying MOT anything related to his amps can be posted anywhere. And in defense of my buddy Jam, he is at the heart of these boards...THANK You for posting this!

 I too am curious about the proprietary nature of the connector will others use this or other connectors, Im sure many are concerned with the universality

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Duggeh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why isn't this in the existing, or a new sponsored thread from RSA?

 If your relationship with Ray Samuels is this tight (you're certainly a proliferate mouthpiece) then threads like this need to be considered under the MOT rules.

 Personally, I think that what you're posting here skips around the rules and needs to be curtailed._


----------



## jc9394

John, do you have any inside info on the release day? I'm amp less now...


----------



## jamato8

What I find exciting about the little amp is that it appears with the greater voltage swing it will now have IEM's or headphones, like the HD600 can be used. This would mean that you can easily listen to balanced outside of a home or other "home" amp setup. Should prove to be very interesting.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I find exciting about the little amp is that it appears with the greater voltage swing it will now have IEM's or headphones, like the HD600 can be used. This would mean that you can easily listen to balanced outside of a home or other "home" amp setup. Should prove to be very interesting. 




_

 

The pictures are nice John, any news on the amps specs also the cost.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I find exciting about the little amp is that it appears with the greater voltage swing it will now have IEM's or headphones, like the HD600 can be used. This would mean that you can easily listen to balanced outside of a home or other "home" amp setup. Should prove to be very interesting. _

 

The potential amp definitely is interesting and innovative for IEMs. As for driving full-sized balanced cans well, I'll believe it when I hear it.

 EDIT: Jamato, how does it sound so far?


----------



## jpelg

[size=xx-small]*Some questions & comments*[/size]

 1. Does this amp convert a single-ended source input into a true balanced drive output?

 2. Regarding the resistors in the output stage, do IEMs really require much dampening? Since this amp is first & foremost designed for IEMs, I would think the requirement of coupling higher-voltage balanced output with a very low noise-floor is more important a design consideration, no?

 Inevitably, there will be those that plug their balanced HD_xxx_'s into this thing using the shown adapter. Maybe it will work fine, perhaps not so much - who knows at this point. But this is undoubtedly where the discussions (& criticisms) about this amp will go. I don't think any engineering design can be all things to all people (or headphones), so I hope expectations are tempered accordingly.

 All that being said, I still have to wonder if IEMs really require a balanced output amp at all. I know there are people who have already balanced their Etymotic ER4's, claiming real benefits. I have no doubt that anyone who can afford JH13's can also afford a super-duper, balanced, after-market cable, and their money & wallet will soon be parted. Ray is simply catering to this portion of his customer-base.


----------



## qusp

some fair points, but why does it need to be a super duper balanced cable? the connectors are available, you can simply reterminate a stock cable. all the same I do indeed find that my JH13 sound great balanced our of my buffalo32. what i'm interested in is the battery in this, because if its just the same voltage split in half then there isnt any extra swing at all


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpelg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. Does this amp convert a single-ended source input into a true balanced drive output?_

 

It would appear to use a phase splitting device and 4ch of output, providing balanced drive from a single ended source. Ray has somewhat touched on this in posts in the paid thread.

  Quote:


 2. Regarding the resistors in the output stage, do IEMs really require much dampening? Since this amp is first & foremost designed for IEMs, I would think the requirement of coupling higher-voltage balanced output with a very low noise-floor is more important a design consideration, no? 
 

Some folks have done a bit of testing regarding the frequency response curves of IEMs when driven by amps with varying output impedances. I don't feel qualified to speak much about this and can only relate my experiences regarding adding even low value series resistance to the output of various amps. I didn't like the results. Of course it's hard to say how big a role the resistors will play here since we don't know the value of the resistors. 

  Quote:


 All that being said, I still have to wonder if IEMs really require a balanced output amp at all. 
 

I'm 100% with you on this one Jimmy. What I want out of my IEM amp is not more power but precise and finely adjustable attenuation to allow me to maximize the sound quality of the output of whatever source I'm feeding it.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *qusp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_some fair points, but why does it need to be a super duper balanced cable? the connectors are available, you can simply reterminate a stock cable._

 

What stock cable are you talking about?


----------



## The Monkey

Maybe a stock super duper single-ended cable?


----------



## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What stock cable are you talking about?_

 

I think he was referring to any stock headphone cable with 4 wires that could be easily re-terminated to use with this amp.


----------



## Lil' Knight

I wish it could be done that way. The stock JH13 cable can't be reterminated in balanced.
 Fortunately, the new UE18 cable is possible. I'm waiting for the quote from UE for that one.

 @edit: Nate might be correct. I thought he was mentioning the IEMs cable.


----------



## jude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe a stock super duper single-ended cable?_

 

The new Ultimate Ears cable that will be available with the UE18 Pro should be able to be easily modified to balanced.


----------



## shigzeo

I've used TRRS in many of my MD players for years and they have never once suffered cutting in and out. The Auvi units used a sort of balanced wiring for its sennheiser mx300 or mx400 series earphones back in the good ol' MD days. 

This is a badly translated article, but as Sharp no longer make AUVI portable units, most of the information has been taken down.


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think he was referring to any stock headphone cable with 4 wires that could be easily re-terminated to use with this amp._

 

indeed I was; in the annuls of history I remember (foggily) some of the other IEM cables are 4 wire too, because I seem to remember p0wd3rhound from westone talking about a stock cable he has balanced. I havent chopped open any of the stock cables though as I made all of mine from scratch. and the new UE18 cable of course, but whether that works properly with the JH13/16 we wont know till its in some HFers hands


----------



## The Monkey

Does there exist a female connector that matches the balanced male plug that goes into the Protector?


----------



## qusp

I guess so considering it has to plug into the amp.... whether its easily accessible is another thing; i'm not quite sold on it, but its growing on me


----------



## The Monkey

I should have been clearer; I mean a female connector that could be used to make an XLR or TRS adapter.


----------



## n_maher

Considering there's a male cable end it seems likely that there's a mating female connector. 

 My ultimate concern with the connector (ignoring its bulk) is the fixed non-rotational nature of the connection it makes to the amp. I don't know and can't speak for anyone else but my portable rig gets yanked around from time to time and it's nice that the cable can move without disconnecting or meeting with unmovable resistance. I'm also not a fan of the RA nature of the connection, while that works great for Ray in this one case it may not for others.


----------



## Robin W.

I've ordered some of the connectors Ray is using, part numbers can be found in his paid thread. I haven't come across a cable mount female version but there are a couple different panel mount versions that could be used to convert a Ray Samuels 4 pin into dual 3 pin xlr, or single 4 pin xlr etc. (this assumes you choose to terminate the headphones with this new 4 pin)

 I find it amusing that people are so quick to criticize the connector because it doesn't match any current standards, when at the moment there are no standards for balanced portable audio. Desktop audio has either dual 3 pin xlr or single 4 pin, but there is no way either of those would fit in a portable amp. It’s true the TRRS is a candidate but there are many other uses in a similar application that could cause problems. Someone can and will plug in an iphone headset, a camera cable etc. into the amp or trrs headphones into an iphone etc and it won’t work right, people will complain that it shouldn’t use the same connector if it’s not compatible etc. There is probably no way to win, I commend Ray for going out on a limb and looking outside the box to find a solution. Only time will tell if it catches on, but I personally will give the connector a try before I say anything good or bad about it.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rwaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've ordered some of the connectors Ray is using, part numbers can be found in his paid thread. I haven't come across a cable mount female version but there are a couple different panel mount versions that could be used to convert a Ray Samuels 4 pin into dual 3 pin xlr, or single 4 pin xlr etc. (this assumes you choose to terminate the headphones with this new 4 pin)

 I find it amusing that people are so quick to criticize the connector because it doesn't match any current standards, when at the moment there are no standards for balanced portable audio. Desktop audio has either dual 3 pin xlr or single 4 pin, but there is no way either of those would fit in a portable amp. It’s true the TRRS is a candidate but there are many other uses in a similar application that could cause problems. Someone can and will plug in an iphone headset, a camera cable etc. into the amp or trrs headphones into an iphone etc and it won’t work right, people will complain that it shouldn’t use the same connector if it’s not compatible etc. There is probably no way to win, I commend Ray for going out on a limb and looking outside the box to find a solution. Only time will tell if it catches on, but I personally will give the connector a try before I say anything good or bad about it._

 

Who where you able to order them from?


----------



## Robin W.

This is a screen shot of the catalog page, I think everything you need is there. Sorry links aren't clickable.


----------



## LionPlushie

that is actually a camera plug? interested. lol.


----------



## Robin W.

I received my connectors yesterday and I have to say they are actually pretty nice. They are compact, solid, and even though they won't rotate it would take a lot of rotational force to damage one. They have a nice insertion feel, and it's not going to pull out or fall out. It's compact enough to fit just about anywhere, and the only drawback that I can see is the manditory direction and overlap of the 90deg connector. The biggest thing is it's easy to use, the 4 pins are far enough appart for fairly easy soldering, easy to isolate each of them with heat shrink. This is a huge contrast to some of the 4 conductor 3.5mm plugs that I have soldered.

 Over all it excedes the expectations I had of the connector, and even though I had the dimensions from the data sheet, I was surprised by how small it really is. Ray's photos make it look quite big, which means his new amp is actually very small.

 The only thing I could ask for is a straight plug version, and that might come in time if it starts to catch on.


----------



## jamato8

I ordered some also. I would like to get the feel of them but Ray has always put out solid equipment so I have no doubt these meet his standards.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rwaudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my connectors yesterday and I have to say they are actually pretty nice._

 

Can you take some inside pics?


----------



## unlimited

Very interesting but hopefully it work good in REAL LIFE though.
 I wish it bigger so it can drive the high OEM like HD600/650.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *unlimited* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wish it bigger so it can drive the high OEM like HD600/650._

 

No idea what you are meaning.


----------



## jamato8

It can drive the 600 and HD650 per Ray because it will swing 14 volts and plenty of current.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

wow that is hardcore, mr. samuels never ceases to impress.

 and does the protector have a 1/4 headphone output? hopefully that would be awesome.

 and how is the power output compared to the predator..

 goodbye 1/8 - 1/4 adapter, its been fun


----------



## jamato8

The amp is mainly for balanced, so the connector is neither a 1/4 or 1/8 but it can be single ended also and that is 1/8. There is no room for a 1/4 as the amp is the same size as the Predator. Now that is a small balanced amp but this one is going to put out a lot of power, more than the Predator or most any small portable.


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks too small :| I prefer portable amps to be same size as the player it is being used with, then it is easy to hold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

i think the predator is a perfect size for the hand or to rest your wrist on i u have carpal tunnel like me,, but any smaller than that would be annoying, i am also no a fan of tiny volume knobs, but rsa does make the best compact portables imo.

 personally i wish my predator had the same volume wheel as the shadow, oh and oh how i wish the predator could charge and play via usb like the shadow and still have the usb dac, ray if your listening i would buy that in a second!


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It can drive the 600 and HD650 per Ray because it will swing 14 volts and plenty of current._

 

How does it sound?


----------



## RockinCannoisseur

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp is mainly for balanced, so the connector is neither a 1/4 or 1/8 but it can be single ended also and that is 1/8. There is no room for a 1/4 as the amp is the same size as the Predator. Now that is a small balanced amp but this one is going to put out a lot of power, more than the Predator or most any small portable._

 

thats odd i thought it was 1/4,, so it does hhave regular 3.5mm output? and u can switch between t that and the balanced output?

 and exactly how much more power does protector have than the predator?

 more than sr71a blackbird?

 im also interested in a sr71 a/b with the iqube. 

 thanks


----------



## unlimited

It's coming guys, It's coming


----------



## unlimited

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No idea what you are meaning._

 

Oopz sorry about that.
 I meant I wish it has enough power to use with the high-impedance headphone like HD600/650 too.

 Hey anyone know when it gonna come out?
 Approximately price?


----------



## Lexington

.


----------



## mangamonster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks too small :| I prefer portable amps to be same size as the player it is being used with, then it is easy to hold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Yeah, a little too small for my taste as well. Looks good though.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *unlimited* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oopz sorry about that.
 I meant I wish it has enough power to use with the high-impedance headphone like HD600/650 too._

 

Take a little time to read the thread. This has been answered several times.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Duggeh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1)

 A somewhat deft dodging of the issue. I made no comment about you posting the image. Although since you do, I would like to know exactly where it was posted first.

 "In a PM from Ray." Is not a suitable answer to that of course.


 2)

 If it's there for anyone to see, does this mean there is already a thread? If so where is it and why was the creation of this one necessary?

 If it's there for everyone to see, and there isn't already a thread, then by what qualification of the term is it "there for everyone to see"?

 Again "The photo is on the RSA website FTP." is not a suitable answer.


 3)

 What I am worried about is an (and I chose my abjective with some care) insideous circumvention of MOT posting rules. I shall be upfront and frank and say that I personally find your long term posting history to go beyond what might readily be described as fanboyism. Although I am uncertain as to if it merits description as shilling. It's certainly on the same scale as Herandu or Sovkiller in the past and we know what status they now occupy._

 

Geeze , this guy might need more than some great music.......maybe a beer also. You should apply for the policing job thats available here.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Guidostrunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Geeze , this guy might need more than some great music.......maybe a beer also. You should apply for the policing job thats available here.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

x2 OMG
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'm enjoying a beer right now. Who cares where the pic came from? Really? Not me!


----------



## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RockinCannoisseur* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...personally i wish my predator had the same volume wheel as the shadow, oh and oh how i wish the predator could charge and play via usb like the shadow..._

 

Indeed, I just sold my Predator, switching to the Shadow for every day use. I love the USB charging, and the smaller size (which is perfect with my 3G Nano -- horses for courses).

 Now this new balanced one will be perfect for longer trips when I will be hotel-based for a week or more. I will bring full-size balanced cans and have a dream mini-rig right in the hotel. The amp will sit in one place, so the (lack of) rotation of the connector is not a big issue for me.

 Congrats to Ray, this is great.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Robin W.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Over all it excedes the expectations I had of the connector, and even though I had the dimensions from the data sheet, I was surprised by how small it really is. Ray's photos make it look quite big, which means his new amp is actually very small._

 

I know what you mean. I think Ray does an excellent job with the photos of his products, but I'm still always surprised to see just how small his portables really are. They are tiny; yet, they still feel solid and easy to use. He may need to use more quarters (and dimes!) to show the scale.


----------



## krmathis

It seems to come along really nice! Looking great from the pictures indeed.


----------



## jamato8

I got a few of the connectors Ray is going to use for the balanced amp today. I bought them from Mouser. The connector seems about as small as a good functioning connector could be and appear to be just about indestructible. The top half snaps to the section with the contacts. The assembly is simple, easy to solder, light and inexpensive. Seems like a nice way to go.


----------



## sohels

*jamato8*, I cannot help but notice that you have doggedly drummed up several products in the past. What, may I ask, is the cause that motivates these espousals?


----------



## jamato8

Gee I don't know. I have and own the Woo 6 and 3 and have written a lot about them. I have the Ultrasone Ed. 9, JH 13Pro, Xin amps, iBasso items, iRiver, TWag cable, Leica cameras, written much about my Canon cameras as I am also a professional photographer and the list goes on. On different forums I have written much about all of my items. Oh then I have also been on Audio Asylum since 2000 and have written on things there. 

 So I see you have a list. If you really like the products in your list then say much or little, that is up to you. If I like something I say so even is doggedly so. :^) And please give me credit for more than for several products.

 I have also done many projects on minority peoples and sometimes abuse of the same. I am dogged about this. 

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/03...-around-tibet/


----------



## sohels

You haven't answered my question - please explain your extraordinary enthusiasm for these audio products. In this thread alone, you have attempted to build high expectations for the Protector and have tried to defend the design choices/compromises that are made - even going as far as to order the connector and to bestow upon it your unconditional seal of approval.

 It is hard for me to understand why you would be so strongly committed to the success of this (and other) products, unless there is something in it for you.


----------



## jamato8

Ah, the music. That is what is in it for me. And for you?


----------



## jelt2359

sohels> Perhaps you (and some others like you) need monetary 'something' for you to act in a certain way.

 There also exist other people for whom the simple act of sharing (and having others concur with) your opinions is already 'something' enough.

 Then there are those whom simply get very excited and need to simply ACT- do something, anything- to try to channel that excitement.

 It is difficult for us to understand why or how others may act differently from us. I often find it hard to convince my girlfriend why I need multiple amps, for instance, when she thinks does just fine without one.. She cannot see why I would need these, because as far as she is concerned, there is 'nothing in it for me'.

 Hence I appreciate your comments. It's always nice to see people trying to find out about others' values and motivations; since this displays a humility at being able to admit that not everyone is like you. Power to you.


----------



## sohels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah, the music. That is what is in it for me._

 

Cute, but not convincing.

 The manufacturers must be rubbing their hands with glee - this Pied Piper does not charge a fee.


----------



## jamato8

Ah, the music. That is what is in it for me. And for you?

 Edit: Sweet beautiful music. To me the nectar of the gods and of G-d. I listen and listen, the Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, Scott Hamilton, Dark Side of the MOon, I mix, I match, the music. To me even my photography is music. I feel privileged when I can capture a shot and don't assume it is me but the moment. I have to admit though, I am not always in tune. :^)


----------



## The Monkey

jamato8, I think if you confirmed that you do not receive the equipment you review/discuss for free or at discount from MOTs or are otherwise compensated by same, then your motivation likely would not be questioned.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a few of the connectors Ray is going to use for the balanced amp today_

 

I received some as well. Didn't even have to pay for them. I couldn't believe they are in fact magnetic!


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_China News: Ethnic Tension In and Around Tibet | China Digital Times (CDT)_

 

Following the link to your site I came upon some marvelous photography. I am in awe, sir.


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sohels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cute, but not convincing.

 The manufacturers must be rubbing their hands with glee - this Pied Piper does not charge a fee._

 

Looks like I completely misread your intent there.

 Ah well, a sobering lesson for myself. Not everyone is like me either.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received some as well. Didn't even have to pay for them. I couldn't believe they are in fact magnetic!_

 

I don't know what you got but the ones I received from Mouser are not magnetic.


----------



## luvdunhill

yup, straight from Mouser. What kind of magnet did you use? I used a NdFeB Magnet with 540 lb pull, similar to this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-PC-N42-6-x-1-N...item4839296007


----------



## jamato8

I used a very powerful magnet also. I don't know the pull. I suspect that it may be part of the plating process, which is very common even on connectors costing very big bucks. Unless flashing of gold with no nickel plating is used, most connectors have a very small amount of magnetism.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_most connectors have a very small amount of magnetism._

 

yeah, I was surprised when you initially mentioned these were not magnetic, so I just had to test them. 

 Pretty handy that Mouser will hand out samples at the drop of the hat for independent evaluation!


----------



## Hopstretch

I'm still interested in the question of whether you get freebies for reviewing stuff. Do you get freebies for reviewing stuff? If you do get freebies for reviewing stuff, I think it would be useful for people to know that you get freebies for reviewing stuff.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hopstretch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still interested in the question of whether you get freebies for reviewing stuff. Do you get freebies for reviewing stuff? If you do get freebies for reviewing stuff, I think it would be useful for people to know that you get freebies for reviewing stuff._

 

No I don't get freebies for reviewing stuff. I like to talk about what I do have and the impressions I have from listening. Over on the photo site where I am often I talk about my gear and about shooting and critiquing images. I have more photo gear than audio but both stretch back to the late 60's. 

 To the balanced amp, I think with the likes of the JH13's and then the 16's and the UE's and even other balanced phones, the enjoyment of music will just be enhanced. The changes in the last few years to portables are what I knew would and could happen, which is a closing of the portable/home amp difference.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, I was surprised when you initially mentioned these were not magnetic, so I just had to test them. 

 Pretty handy that Mouser will hand out samples at the drop of the hat for independent evaluation!_

 

Interesting. I have gotten opamp samples before, which is very nice. Well I am set for now with the plug. I am sure Mouser is reimbursed for the samples and is given a certain number that they can distribute.


----------



## The Monkey

Thank you for your confirmation, jamato8.


----------



## sohels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hopstretch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still interested in the question of whether you get freebies for reviewing stuff. Do you get freebies for reviewing stuff? If you do get freebies for reviewing stuff, I think it would be useful for people to know that you get freebies for reviewing stuff._

 

Thank you very much for that. I am unwilling to push this any further.

*jamato8*, I appreciate your response and apologize for impeding the dissemination of the virtues of this amp.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, I was surprised when you initially mentioned these were not magnetic, so I just had to test them. 

 Pretty handy that Mouser will hand out samples at the drop of the hat for independent evaluation!_

 

I understand now. You are talking about the female connector that mounts to the board. That has something like tin around the housing for the pins but that isn't in the signal path and I don't think that will have any effect on the sound as it is a distance from the pins and does not have a normal magnetic field.


----------



## vcoheda

i can't believe the abuse this guy has to put up with.


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i can't believe the abuse this guy has to put up with._

 

Keep in mind that perception is reality.


----------



## The Monkey

It says more about the insidious and pervasive influence that shills have here than anything else. If jamato8's motivations are unfairly viewed as duplicitous, that's unfortunate. But it's simply a sign o the times. There are shills among us, and, to me, they cast doubt over the integrity of many of the reviews and threads on this site (although HF certainly isn't unique in this respect). We all suffer as a result.

 jamato8 seems pretty mature and can handle it.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

He did indeed handle it with aplomb, good job jamato 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i too am pretty excited for this amp!


----------



## Audio-Omega

This is a cheaper option to try balanced headphones.


----------



## jamato8

I found out that the gain of the Protector is:

 2 6 and 11 in single ended and in balanced this doubles to 4 12 and 22. The run time in balanced is around 32 hours for something like the JH13 Pros and a little longer in single ended.


----------



## n_maher

Is that the effective gain on the output or the internal gain? I guess what I'm asking is if someone puts 1V in what do they get out?


----------



## radarmod

I want to use Protector for balanced headphone!
 but...I can't expect the price of it.


----------



## jamato8

I will be getting the Protector to listen to for a few days starting tomorrow and will post impressions of what I hear. I will be using the JH 13 Pro, HD650's and for fun I think I will change the plug on my Porta Pros that are balanced but with two mini's.


----------



## travisg

Great I can't wait to hear your review.


----------



## IPodPJ

It is an awesome little amp. You will love it. It doesn't sound like you are listening to a portable amp. On low gain, it can drive a pair of HD800 to loud levels, but I prefered the sound quality on medium gain. If you maxed out the volume on medium or high gain using a 4V source, you'd destroy your ear drums very fast. I can't even imagine how loud it would get with a pair of sensitive IEMs like the JH13 (119dB@1mW, 28 ohms).

 I think someone said earlier it can swing 12V or 14V. Ray said it has two 8.4V batteries for a total of 16.8V. The power is not dual mono though.


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is an awesome little amp. You will love it. It doesn't sound like you are listening to a portable amp. On low gain, it can drive a pair of HD800 to loud levels, but I prefered the sound quality on medium gain. If you maxed out the volume on medium or high gain using a 4V source, you'd destroy your ear drums very fast. I can't even imagine how loud it would get with a pair of sensitive IEMs like the JH13 (119dB@1mW, 28 ohms).

 I think someone said earlier it can swing 12V or 14V. Ray said it has two 8.4V batteries for a total of 16.8V. The power is not dual mono though._

 

You're aware that gain says absolutely nothing about the quality of an amp of course?


----------



## IPodPJ

I never said that it does. Perhaps you misunderstood. I said the HD800 sound better from the Protector with the amp set to medium gain, not that the amp will give you better quality on medium gain. An amp will have less noise/hiss the lower the gain.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be getting the Protector to listen to for a few days starting tomorrow and will post impressions of what I hear._

 

I am so jealous John.


----------



## jamato8

The Protector has arrived. 

 As noted, it is the same size as the Predator. 

 It is easy to use and the connecter is a snap. The connector being very solid and just fitting the face of the Predator so everything looks right. 

 Of course what everyone wants to know is what it sounds like. 

 With a little bit of a warm up, 1/2 hour, the sound improved from being a little cold to natural. One thing I notice immediately is that cymbals, not always easy to get right have the true brass sound. Separation of side to side and front to back is excellent. Some cuts on Buena Vista that I thought were one voice I now can tell are two voices. 

 More to report later.

 Edit: This Protector is broken in of course as it is the one Ray has been using and has taken to a recent meet. Even with that I notice that in doing an A/B to another amp for a baseline, it needs a bit of on time. I can hear changes on this broken in model after even 45 minutes but this is normal for any amp, at least in my experience. So if you get one besides the burn in period, on time will also be something to consider when listening, at least in my experience. This is a good thing to think about before proclaiming what it sounds like or for that matter the sound of most any amp. IMO


----------



## moonboy403

The JH13 Pro sounds downright beautiful with the Protector driving it balanced. JH13's images are now bigger, ambiance retrieval's better, soundstage is now around your head for the most part, and there's a lot more punch to the bass.

 Note: Admittedly, I have not tried that many amps with the JH13. I've only had a MiniMax, Qinpu Q2, DNA Sonett, and the amp that comes with my Peachtree Audio Nova DAC which Sherwood likens it to a Gilmore Lite.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The JH13 Pro sounds downright beautiful with the Protector driving it balanced. JH13's images are now bigger, ambiance retrieval's better, soundstage is now around your head for the most part, and there's a lot more punch to the bass.

 Note: Admittedly, I have not tried that many amps with the JH13. I've only had a MiniMax, Qinpu Q2, DNA Sonett, and the amp that comes with my Peachtree Audio Nova DAC which Sherwood likens it to a Gilmore Lite._

 

Did it sound better with the protector than with the DNA Sonett?? cause that was definitely on my short list for desktop amps for my jh-13's.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did it sound better with the protector than with the DNA Sonett?? cause that was definitely on my short list for desktop amps for my jh-13's._

 

I had the DNA Sonett a few months ago for a week. So telling you anything other than I don't know would be a blatant lie. But from my memory, none of the amps (paired with the JH13) I tried amazed me as much as the Protector. Perhaps there's something special about driving the JH13 balance.

 One thing I can say about the DNA Sonett and the Protector is that the HD800 sounds much better out of the Sonett(SE) than the Protector(balanced).


----------



## jamato8

The Protector and the HD650 make a very fine combination. The bass is solid and extremely well controlled. This is about as good as I have heard the 650's. Even on bass heavy music the sound remains transparent and dynamic with no smearing of the frequencies. The soundstage is enjoyable as it is wide and deep well recorded drums back where they should be and not in your face. Listen to some Leonard Cohen and you will know what I mean. The sound is huge on his recordings and this is portrayed with ease on the 650 and Protector combination.

 Edit: For a torture test, maybe more for me than the amp, I put on the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" and played Hotel California. The drum at the beginning takes a lot of juice if you turn the volume up and can clip an amp fairly easy. With the HD650 all that happened was that at way too loud a volume the drivers started to break up a little but the sound field never collapsed! It stayed put and I mercifully turned the volume down to a normal listening level.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The JH13 Pro sounds downright beautiful with the Protector driving it balanced. JH13's images are now bigger, ambiance retrieval's better, soundstage is now around your head for the most part, and there's a lot more punch to the bass.

 Note: Admittedly, I have not tried that many amps with the JH13. I've only had a MiniMax, Qinpu Q2, DNA Sonett, and the amp that comes with my Peachtree Audio Nova DAC which Sherwood likens it to a Gilmore Lite._

 

So, JH13 balanced out of Protector beats all those?

 And would you describe it as more of a musical, clinical, or somewhere in between sound?


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, JH13 balanced out of Protector beats all those?

 And would you describe it as more of a musical, clinical, or somewhere in between sound?_

 

In terms of amazed on the first try? Definitely. The Protector/JH13 pairing was very musical.


----------



## Audio-Omega

What is the vocal like through HD650 ? Is Protector a neutral amp ?


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Protector and the HD650 make a very fine combination. The bass is solid and extremely well controlled. This is about as good as I have heard the 650's. Even on bass heavy music the sound remains transparent and dynamic with no smearing of the frequencies. The soundstage is enjoyable as it is wide and deep well recorded drums back where they should be and not in your face. Listen to some Leonard Cohen and you will know what I mean. The sound is huge on his recordings and this is portrayed with ease on the 650 and Protector combination.

 Edit: For a torture test, maybe more for me than the amp, I put on the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" and played Hotel California. The drum at the beginning takes a lot of juice if you turn the volume up and can clip an amp fairly easy. With the HD650 all that happened was that at way too loud a volume the drivers started to break up a little but the sound field never collapsed! It stayed put and I mercifully turned the volume down to a normal listening level._

 


 How do you compare the Protector to other RSA amp like Predator or Mustang or Shadow etc? Does it have the RSA house sound? It is warm like the other RSA amps? How about transparency? How about Balance versus SE? If you only compare the SE of the Protector to other RSA amp like Predator, Mustang or Shadow, how is the Protector holding up? I am very familiar with RSA amop as I have the SR71a, Predator and Mustang. I am just curious that if you only compare SE to SE, if there any improvement coming from the Protector? or is all the improvement come as a result of the balance setup? Thanks you so very much for lending your ears vicarously.


----------



## jamato8

I have not had a real chance to compare yet. 

 To my ear the balanced HD650's or in Ray's case, the HD600's, are made for this amp. I would guess that Ray did some voicing with the 600's. The HD650's come to life and any veiling or loss of dynamics or bass interplay is totally fleshed out. 

 To have a tiny portable that can power the HD6XX series like this and be balanced is a gift. I have kept the 650's just to be able to give people feedback that would ask how they sounded with certain amps but this amp brings them out of semiretirement. Human voice, both female and male, when well recorded, has a realism that brings you into the recording when using the 650's. Great fun.


----------



## Audio-Omega

How did the single ended output sound compare to Shadow, Predator and P-51 ?


----------



## jamato8

I am still getting a handle on the Protector. I really take to heart giving out impressions as I do not want to lead anyone astray but again, is is my impression but I do have plenty to compare to. I am just listening to the Protector though and haven't really done the numbing comparisons yet. 

 I will note that the Protector at normal and high listening levels is dead quite and music comes from a black background. It also feels like the walls of your head enclosure with my IEM's, the JH13's in balanced, just fall away. On the Chieftains, Long Black Veil, the sound is so open, clean and dynamic, it really is a musical joy.

 I am starting to think the Protector and JH13's were made for each other. I think you could hardwire the 13's to the Protector and be done. :^)


----------



## edwardsean

John, 

 Don't want to bug you. But, could you clarify what you meant by this sentence, "It also feels like the walls of your head enclosure with my IEM's, the JH13's in balanced, just fall away." I think I understand, but I'm not certain, and until Ray drops the Protector, I'm kinda hanging on your every word. Already ordered the TWag cable from Craig. I got to say, it's going to be weird just having the cable for a couple weeks with nothing to plug it into.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, I though I was getting too poetic. There is a freedom to the music that no longer is encompassed by the feeling of the music being in your head. It is like finally becoming realized when you meditate. The music just flows in an open free space of the recording venue rather than being bound in a closed space. The HD650's behave like this as do the JH13 Pros with the Protector.


----------



## Little Bob

OT: John - just spend a few minutes looking at your photos, really beautiful images.

 Thanks.


----------



## vkvedam

I think the images are credit of RSA, not John [Though he's a great photographer].


----------



## Audio-Omega

Where did you get the cable to connect from Protector to HD650 ?


----------



## Little Bob

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vkvedam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the images are credit of RSA, not John [Though he's a great photographer]._

 

Sorry, I wasn't too clear - I meant the Photo Gallery in John's sig. some great shots.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio-Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get the cable to connect from Protector to HD650 ?_

 

Just simply reterminate the stock HD650 cable to the new balanced connector.


----------



## jamato8

It is very easy to terminate the stock cable with the connector being used and you can buy a new cable for not much money. The cable I am using right now is terminated as a standard balanced cable and then uses an adapter going to the balanced termination plug that the Protector uses, as seen in previous images. It is a cable and adapter that Ray has made. The wire is the special military wire he uses for his IC's and the sound is excellent.


----------



## Audio-Omega

It would be great if Ray could sell Protector together with an adaptor as shown in the photos.


----------



## IPodPJ

If you already have an aftermarket cable, you could get a great second life out of your stock HD800 cable by reterminating them with the Kobicon.


----------



## M3NTAL

Not sure if this has been asked before or not...

 What is the volume control that is being used? (how does it work at low volume with high sensitivity headphones/IEMs)


----------



## jamato8

I use the JH13's on medium gain at about 12 o'clock. On low gain around 2 or 3. Now the 13's aren't the most sensitive but there is plenty of volume control room to move and the volume comes on nice and gradual. 

 This amp is very layered. There are singers and instruments in the past were clumped but now can be heard as slightly in front of and to the side or two singers side by side but distinct. This really adds to the realism. All "sounds" are controlled but in a natural and musical manner. By controlled I mean they come out of a point (imaging) that is realistic and not diffuse in any way unless the recording is like that.


----------



## M3NTAL

with your JH13 being the only headphone/monitor in the equation, would you choose any other amplifier pairings?

 I'm not sure of this, but I'd bet that balanced armatures like the extra amperage from the balanced drive. I don't know if the added voltage does as much for them?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *M3NTAL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_with your JH13 being the only headphone/monitor in the equation, would you choose any other amplifier pairings?

 I'm not sure of this, but I'd bet that balanced armatures like the extra amperage from the balanced drive. I don't know if the added voltage does as much for them?_

 

Balanced drive does not inherently provide more amperage. For a given voltage and impedance of your headphones, in this case 28 ohms for jh-13's, you get a resulting amperage, up to the amperage that the battery can provide, but in the case of iems, this will not be a problem, then the voltage will sag. But .02 volts on a single ended amp, and a .2 volt difference between the lines on a balanced amp will still produce the same current draw.

 Though the protector does use two batteries and would therefor be able to go to a higher voltage before it would start to sag, because the dual batteries could provide more amperage then a single battery design, but this really isnt relevant to highly sensitive iem's


----------



## M3NTAL

Thank you for the reply!


----------



## jamato8

I find the Protector drives the balanced HD650's with ease with great bass control. 

 I am listening to Jerry Garcia right now on an out of print Cd from 1990 with the JH13 Pros. The organ on "The Night they Drove Old Dixie Down" goes way low on the bass and runs up and down the frequency range. The flow and depth will send shivers up your back, at least it does mine.


----------



## tf1216

I have a question which requires me to apologize before asking as I am sure it has been asked before. I have searched for the answer without luck.

 Would the Protector benefit from a balanced input such as from a Laptop -> Balanced USB DAC -> The Protector? Or do you feel one could have an unbalanced USB DAC and not notice much of a difference. I ask this question in hopes of upgrading the sound fed into a set of JH13s.

 Thanks all.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

I don't think the Protector has balanced inputs, not sure though.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tf1216* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question which requires me to apologize before asking as I am sure it has been asked before. I have searched for the answer without luck.

 Would the Protector benefit from a balanced input such as from a Laptop -> Balanced USB DAC -> The Protector? Or do you feel one could have an unbalanced USB DAC and not notice much of a difference. I ask this question in hopes of upgrading the sound fed into a set of JH13s.

 Thanks all._

 

It can not accept a balanced input, not only does i not have the physical input, but it is not a differential design, so it wouldnt really help. It goes through the phase split after the voltage gain, right before going into the output buffer.


----------



## tf1216

Thank you gents'.


----------



## IPodPJ

According to Ray, it is a fully differential amp after the input. I don't really understand how, but that's what he said.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to Ray, it is a fully differential amp after the input. I don't really understand how, but that's what he said._

 

hmm, maybe its changed since he last said? im basing my comment on a post he made quite a while ago here

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Mr. Sasaki... There are two ways you can design the balanced amp when dealing with single ended input signal. One of them is taking the SE signal & running it through a volume control that has two sections only, one for the left the other for right channels, this way at least you are dealing with a volume control that has less problem in tracking & is easier to match the two sections than the one with four sections, as the one with four sections is almost impossible to match all four sections together. Going back to the pot with two sections, the output of the pot, Wiper, is going into a gain circuitry to determine the gain needed, then the SE signal is going to the phase splitter where the SE signal is split into two signals mirror image of each others but with the 180 degree out of phase, thus creating your positive & negative signals needed to go to the last stage which is the buffer. Margin of error is way less when dealing with a pot as good as the Panasonic used in the Protector, as it is easy to match the two sections as we said above.

 The second choice would be, to feed the SE signal to a phase splitter, first, to get the two mirror image signals, the positive & the negative, then running the two signals of the left channel & the two siganls of the right channels, four in all, into the FOUR sections of the volume control, which is so hard to find well matched, & then out of the four wipers of the volume control to four buffers.

 I believe the first choice would be a better one.
 Ray Samuels_


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It says more about the insidious and pervasive influence that shills have here than anything else. If jamato8's motivations are unfairly viewed as duplicitous, that's unfortunate. But it's simply a sign o the times. There are shills among us, and, to me, they cast doubt over the integrity of many of the reviews and threads on this site (although HF certainly isn't unique in this respect). We all suffer as a result.

 jamato8 seems pretty mature and can handle it._

 

I must say it does feel funny, that jamato8 has been called a "shill for RSA" and now Ray from RSA sends him (jamato8) the prototype to give us listening impressions. 

 But I gave Jude a hard time for excepting the Prototype GS 1000 from Grado labs as a gift, after a over the top review.


----------



## kunalraiker

When is the protector out,we are waiting Ray.


----------



## naamanf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *markmaxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I must say it does feel funny, that jamato8 has been called a "shill for RSA" and now Ray from RSA sends him (jamato8) the prototype to give us listening impressions. _

 

I'm sure your not the only one that thinks so.


----------



## jamato8

Life can be ironic. Actually I think life is ironic most all the time. I had a patient today struggling for life after destroying his liver with alcohol. I was able to get him off the ventilator today and he wanted to celebrate with a drink, of water. :^)


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Any chance Ray dropped hints on the price when he loaned it over to ya? =]


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Life can be ironic. Actually I think life is ironic most all the time. I had a patient today struggling for life after destroying his liver with alcohol. I was able to get him off the ventilator today and he wanted to celebrate with a drink, of water. :^)_

 

I am sure you are a extremely good head-fier!!!!! I never in fact have been to a meet and not enjoyed everyone their, and I have learned more about audio reproduction here than any other place.( Internet or brick and mortar. )

 With that said:..Sorry to hijack.


----------



## jelt2359

jamato how does this compare with the fiquest?

 Since this is neither a MOT sponsored thread nor is jamato a MOT I consider this a valid question.. Let me know if comparisons aren't allowed in impression threads too..


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamato how does this compare with the fiquest?.._

 

 Great question..... Why not end here?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since this is neither a MOT sponsored thread nor is jamato a MOT I consider this a valid question.. Let me know if comparisons aren't allowed in impression threads too.._


----------



## jelt2359

Sometimes I've asked questions which are ignored and buried... So I figured maybe I'm doing something wrong like stepping past some line of acceptable etiquette. Hence, I decided I might as well take the opportunity to find out what I've been doing wrong.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sometimes I've asked questions which are ignored and buried... So I figured maybe I'm doing something wrong like stepping past some line of acceptable etiquette. Hence, I decided I might as well take the opportunity to find out what I've been doing wrong._

 

Sometimes people start posts and they want nothing but praise for the item they have posted about or no controversial remarks. I think the MOT forum is one that needs to stay on target about the paid for by the manufacture forum but here is for general discussion but again some people have in mind what they want in "their" thread. 

 I haven't compared the amps. They both though are very, very strong on the musical portrayal of what goes into them. With some recent changes to the fi.Q I am still letting it burn in. It is all about the music and at some point I don't know if there is a clear "winner". I will say that so far the Protector is doing everything right and that is in balanced and single ended.


----------



## jelt2359

Thanks!


----------



## cegras

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Life can be ironic. Actually I think life is ironic most all the time. I had a patient today struggling for life after destroying his liver with alcohol. I was able to get him off the ventilator today and he wanted to celebrate with a drink, of water. :^)_

 

That's not really irony, and that doesn't really pertain to the question, though. I believe that the best way of pointing out a contradiction is to show the person in question how they did it exactly, but I don't want to go through the trouble of multiquoting your posts. I'm sure if you spend some time digging that you'll see you clearly contradicted yourself.


----------



## Infoseeker

Closed headphones aside;
 Why would something like an IEM, even a multi-driver one need a 
 balanced amp?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Infoseeker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Closed headphones aside;
 Why would something like an IEM, even a multi-driver one need a 
 balanced amp?_

 

Need is not the point. To me it is innovation and desire.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cegras* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not really irony, and that doesn't really pertain to the question, though. I believe that the best way of pointing out a contradiction is to show the person in question how they did it exactly, but I don't want to go through the trouble of multiquoting your posts. I'm sure if you spend some time digging that you'll see you clearly contradicted yourself._

 

I know that, that is the irony. Life is full of contradictions and I see it in most perilous and life threatening situations all the time. I accept that and move on.

 I have been using the amp in the single ended mode with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 and I really enjoy the sound. Very authoritative and open, the sound is.


----------



## cegras

I guess.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

any new impressions jamato??


----------



## Audio Addict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Infoseeker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Closed headphones aside;
 Why would something like an IEM, even a multi-driver one need a 
 balanced amp?_

 

Because it just sounds so good. I use my JH13Pros balanced out of my Apache. If I had not heard them balanced, I would not have bought them. I listened first out of a portable amp and an ipod and they were okay but then I heard them balanced and I ordered them on the spot at the RMAF.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any new impressions jamato?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Amazing. I was sitting here working on some camera stuff and thinking, damn, single ended and it sounds like this???! Really this little amp has to be heard and I have been using it for two days single ended now with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 and hear reverb in live recordings and due to the higher voltage and whatever op amps Ray is using, it has power that just doesn't quite. I am really glad decided to make this single end along with the balanced because everyone can enjoy this thing. Very 3D, wide and deep and this is in single ended. I am going to balanced my Ed. 9 and see how they sound like that, something I told myself I would not do.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazing. I was sitting here working on some camera stuff and thinking, damn, single ended and it sounds like this???! Really this little amp has to be heard and I have been using it for two days single ended now with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 and hear reverb in live recordings and due to the higher voltage and whatever op amps Ray is using, it has power that just doesn't quite. I am really glad decided to make this single end along with the balanced because everyone can enjoy this thing. Very 3D, wide and deep and this is in single ended. I am going to balanced my Ed. 9 and see how they sound like that, something I told myself I would not do._

 

That really is amazing, i guess this will be the portable amp to beat? do you think its better than the p51 in single ended? and any new impressions with the jh-13s running balanced out of it? thanks jamato, and were all jealous that you got it early


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That really is amazing, i guess this will be the portable amp to beat? do you think its better than the p51 in single ended? and any new impressions with the jh-13s running balanced out of it? thanks jamato, and were all jealous that you got it early 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You must be mind reading today. I switched to the 13's about 10 minutes ago and they need about 10 minutes to form totally to my ears (ear canals to relax etc) and the sound from Tom Petty and the Heart Breaker's latest redo of 6 CD's with all live music is unbelievable. Goose bumps. 

 Well I would say this is Ray's highest achievement for a portable. Frankly it ventures into home amp sound but you know what, I look forward to other impressions when the amp gets out there as I don't want to be the lone guy on this. I also don't feel like comparing it to this and that and the other amp. I am listening to the Protector and is seems to do everything right and nothing wrong.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You must be mind reading today. I switched to the 13's about 10 minutes ago and they need about 10 minutes to form totally to my ears (ear canals to relax etc) and the sound from Tom Petty and the Heart Breaker's latest redo of 6 CD's with all live music is unbelievable. Goose bumps. 

 Well I would say this is Ray's highest achievement for a portable. Frankly it ventures into home amp sound but you know what. I look forward to other impressions when the amp gets out there as I don't want to be the lone guy on this. I also don't feel like comparing it to this and that and the other amp. I am listening to the Protector and is seems to do everything right._

 

it seems great minds think alike 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and thats totally ok, were all just chomping at the bit for info, and you're the only source haha


----------



## Audio-Omega

I would buy two if it's better than HR-2 !


----------



## googleli

Protector Balanced Out vs Lisa III, who wins?


----------



## paulybatz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googleli* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Protector Balanced Out vs Lisa III, who wins?_

 

Apples and Oranges and LISA is not really made for IEMs


----------



## Mr Do

I'm thinking of getting a balanced cable for my Sennheiser HD25-1 II's to pair with the Protector on the go. Will full sized cans benefit from the Protector as apposed to a non balanced amp?


----------



## jamato8

The Protector has excellent extension in both directions. The top end is more extended when compared to the Lisa III. Bass impact on the Protector is very well defined and never muddies the sound, even with complex passages from classical to heavy rock. This is in single ended. In balanced the Protector takes my HD650 to a new level that makes them truly, truly enjoyable.


----------



## edwardsean

John, 

 What about compared to the Woo6?


----------



## jamato8

The Protector balanced does better with the HD650's than the 6. I think for the HD650's to really sound good they need to be balanced.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

What about JH13, balanced protector vs single ended Woo 6? Thanks


----------



## Junliang

Sorry for the noob question.
 But doesn't the source have to be balanced in the first place ?
 Like line out from the ipod has a common ground, single left, single right.
 How is it able to acheive "balanced" sound by just tweaking it in the circuit ?_?

 plus the input of the protector is a mere 3.5mm jack..


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Junliang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for the noob question.
 But doesn't the source have to be balanced in the first place ?
 Like line out from the ipod has a common ground, single left, single right.
 How is it able to acheive "balanced" sound by just tweaking it in the circuit ?_?_

 

No it does not. It takes the single ended signal & split the phase to two signals equal to each others but out of phase 180 degree. One is positive & the other is negative. 
 Ray Samuels


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Junliang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_plus the input of the protector is a mere 3.5mm jack.._

 

We have done a long search to find out a good quality connector that is sturdy, small, well build, with four pins and PC brd foot prints yet not expensive. We came with this connector that is just amazing, its size and look makes it the best choice for balanced portable use. It has very small foot prints. This connector could be used by all the manufacturers of both the IEMs & the portable amp designers. This way it unites us all in making it easy for the consumers to have one cable with the right connector to fit all the up coming balanced amps from every manufacturer. Making this connector a universal choice for all balanced portable amps will give us many choices for other amps or IEMs with out the worry of what adaptor should I get to make this work with that.

 We have already been in contact with JH Audio regarding the balanced cables for the PRO13s. We will do the same with Westone & the Ultimate Ears by posting the part # of both the male & female of this connector. The most important think we would like to do is posting the wires termination, both the positive & the negative as to which pins # the left & right drivers have been assigned. This way it makes the termination matching for all IEMs cables & the portable amp’s connectors.
 To be continued …
 RSA


----------



## Junliang

Mark, are you RSA ?
 Otherwise, I believe it would be appropriate if you put his answers in quotes.

 Man, the first answer just topple the reasoning behind the importance of a balanced source in a balanced setup.. like in a laptop balanced setup, a balaced dac like the Cambridge Audio DacMagic is needed to output balanced signal to the balanced amp.
 I guess whether its true balanced or not can only be confirmed by a long term balanced user =/

 With regards to the second answer, I was referring to the input of the protector, and not the output.
 I believe Ray would never make such a mistake.


----------



## midoo1990

Jamato,how does it compare to woo6 or desktop amps in the 800-1000$ region?I have a feeling that the protector will be priced in the 400-450$ region,we'll see what happens...


----------



## jelt2359

Preorder has started for first 200 units. $475 black, $490 white and clear.


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Preorder has started for first 200 units. $475 black, $490 white and clear._

 

It's $50 off that price for preorder.


----------



## mesasone

Hmmm, the price on the Protector is much more attractive than I was anticipating (I was expecting $600+). I went ahead and threw in my hat for one.

 I'd be interested in listening impressions vs the Fi.Quest if you get the opportunity John. Do you think the the Protector has the cojones to drive some of the more demanding phones, such as the AKG K701?

 EDIT: To clarify, I'm talking about the Protector in balanced operation vs the Fi.Quest


----------



## markmaxx

Quote:


 Mark, are you RSA ?
 Otherwise, I believe it would be appropriate if you put his answers in quotes. 
 

 No,,,, next time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, the first answer just topple the reasoning behind the importance of a balanced source in a balanced setup.. like in a laptop balanced setup, a balaced dac like the Cambridge Audio DacMagic is needed to output balanced signal to the balanced amp.
 I guess whether its true balanced or not can only be confirmed by a long term balanced user =/

  Quote:


 With regards to the second answer, I was referring to the input of the protector, and not the output.
 I believe Ray would never make such a mistake. 
 

 I missed the input. Sorry.


----------



## googleli

Would the protector be able to do well with HD800?


----------



## mesasone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googleli* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the protector be able to do well with HD800?_

 

A few members have posted quick listening impressions with the HD800 in the MOT thread - just a quick search in that thread brings up these:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_xuan87,
 There are two 8.4V batteries.

 From my meet impressions:

 "The most time I spent with a single person tonight was with Ray at dinner. We had great conversation all throughout dinner. He is a genuinely good person and I wish him all the success in the world -- not like he will need any luck... the Protector is just amazing and it will change the way everyone listens to portable rigs. Since I don't have any IEMs, I hooked up my HD800 to this little marvel. When paired with Ray's Meridian, I was shocked just how good it sounded. It was musical and detailed, had a large soundstage like you'd expect from any HOME balanced amp, and had plenty of balls to drive it louder than I'd want to listen -- on LOW GAIN!! I felt the medium gain setting sounded best with the HD800 and HD600. But this amp can probably drive any headphone you could throw at it, including the DT880/600. Ray doesn't need any luck with this amp, he's going to sell a boat load! If I had to be without a home balanced amp, I could be plenty satisfied with a nice source and the Protector. It really can keep up with big boys. I don't know what Ray's secret is, and while not all of his other gear suits my tastes, this little amp has a Napoleon complex and will stomp on many of the home selections costing many multiples of its price."_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shaizada* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For anyone waiting on this...the Protector balanced drive is something waiting for regardless. The sound was astonishing and on level with desktop amps. I mean here I was listening to the HE90, Jade and Stax through the A10 (about a $12 ~$13k rig), and this little protector with the HD800 and the HD600 did not give up an iota of performance to this big rig. Asking for more than that is just something not worth it... If Ray makes his portables sound better in the future....I'm getting rid of my home amps as there will simply be no need sound wise. This Protector ALREADY has me thinking! Something that just wasn't possible a few years ago. But times are a changing.

 Ray should be able to get ALL the preorders in from what little I know about the batteries supply. It's all about getting those lithium ion batteries at this point. If you pre-ordered, you have nothing to worry about. Just wait._


----------



## Mr Do

So how does one pre-order a Protector?

 Thanks.
 Do!


----------



## SoupRKnowva

go over the the sponsored thread, and say you want one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 he just made the announcement thread the preorder thread today


----------



## kunalraiker

I was feeling is there a way I could balance my RE0's and my HD 25-1 II,i know some will feel its a stupid idea, but I don't know much about balanced setups.


----------



## Mr Do

Get a balanced cable for the Hd 25-1 II such as the Headphile V2. I was thinking of doing the same thing. You could always move further up to the 6xx models in the future and still use the V2 cable.


----------



## jamato8

I was always going to leave my Ultrasone Ed. 9 single ended. Now I am going to make them balanced and make an adapter so I can also use them single ended.


----------



## mesasone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr Do* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get a balanced cable for the Hd 25-1 II such as the Headphile V2. I was thinking of doing the same thing. You could always move further up to the 6xx models in the future and still use the V2 cable._

 

Why buy an expensive cable when you could just reterminate the stock cable or order a second from Sennhesier for something like 20 bucks?


----------



## Mr Do

Just a suggestion. Why buy a $400+ amp to use with a $225 pair of headphones in the first place? It's a crazy hobby and none of it makes any logical sense when it comes to cost.


----------



## mesasone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr Do* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a suggestion. Why buy a $400+ amp to use with a $225 pair of headphones in the first place? It's a crazy hobby and none of it makes any logical sense when it comes to cost._

 

I'm not sure I understand your point? You buy an amp to improve the performance of your headphones. Cable upgrades have failed to provide empirical evidence demonstrating the effects of one copper wire with several extra nines after the decimal point versus one with out them. I was/am trying to avoid stepping on the toes of those who "believe" in fancy cables. But what I am saying is that does not make sense to spend 100 dollars for a 3 foot boutique cable when you can easily solder on the connector to a 20 dollar Sennhesier OEM cable.

 You can argue the cost/benefit ratio of any particular amplifier, if you want, but that is irrelevant to the fact that there has yet to be (to my knowledge) a measurable difference demonstrated by these different cables. Nor is this relevant to the thread as a whole.


----------



## Mr Do

I'm not going to get into a cable dispute but $100 is a fair price to me for someone who can't solder. The HD-25 is not copper wire to begin with. From the research that I have done the stock cable is steel and any after market cable, including the 650 stock cable, is an upgrade. $100 is the middle of the road considering a replacement cable could run in the excess of $400. I was simply offering a solution to the original question of how to balance a Hd-25. Disagree if you must for whatever reason but it's still a solution. You asked why and that's my reason. Call me a full if you like but I could be even crazier to spend $400 dollars on cables.


----------



## jamato8

I did not know this but the Protector has a Lifetime warranty. 

 I am finding that with the JH13's balanced the violin and cello are so well portrayed with such good body and tone I am listening again to much more classical music. The sound is not thin or anemic but full and rich.


----------



## jelt2359

To anyone who has seen the white/clear: is it actually ipod-like white?? Or is it more brushed metallic silver? The preorder thread makes it look white, but the impressions from the meet makes it look silver.. If it's silver I won't be plumping for it, but if it were ipod-white I will.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To anyone who has seen the white/clear: is it actually ipod-like white?? Or is it more brushed metallic silver? The preorder thread makes it look white, but the impressions from the meet makes it look silver.. If it's silver I won't be plumping for it, but if it were ipod-white I will._

 

my guess is it looks like the white/clear b52/apache's do, mostly aluminum, but with a slight white tinge id say? you can see the pics in the apache thread.


----------



## jamato8

It is a whitish aluminum but not iPod white.

 edit: I have been listening to so much classical, which I got out of the habit of because I like a larger venue portrayed in order to enjoy it and that is what I got on my home stereo/speaker system. This amp though just throws such a huge stage with well separated instruments and beautiful imaging that it has revitalized my interest and enjoyment of large scale classical. Ah, but you guys will find out in time.


----------



## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a whitish aluminum but not iPod white._

 

Thanks for the clarification. I know it's probably not easy to describe, but does it look more silver or white? I guess I'm using the "clear" Tomahawk as a reference.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* 
_edit: I have been listening to so much classical, which I got out of the habit of because I like a larger venue portrayed in order to enjoy it and that is what I got on my home stereo/speaker system. This amp though just throws such a huge stage with well separated instruments and beautiful imaging that it has revitalized my interest and enjoyment of large scale classical. Ah, but you guys will find out in time._

 

It's great when a component helps you rediscover your music collection; imo, it's one of the true measures of a good piece of gear. When do you have to send back the amp? Sounds like you're going to miss it.


----------



## EddieE

Alright there,

 This seems more like the discussion thread for this topic, so hoping someone can help out. I've no experience with balanced gear at all, except for auditioning balanced HD650s and liking what I heard. I've placed a pre-order for the protector and now am a bit confused about how I'm actually going to use it.

 I had thought the connector pictured in the photos was to fit two ended balanced cables to the unit, now I've been informed they are "for DIY".

 Right... I don't know anything about DIY.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My question is - how am I going to use this thing?

 I've bought a 2x 3 pin XLR. Do I need to sell this on and get something different or can this be made to work with the right adapter? If so. What adapter?

 Sorry, excuse my ignorance, and thanks in advance for any advice/clarity provided.


----------



## zethanos

Maybe you can head to this thread to take a look. Craig sell some of the those adaptors maybe he can help u with it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f149/p...stions-474016/


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zethanos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe you can head to this thread to take a look. Craig sell some of the those adaptors maybe he can help u with it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f149/p...stions-474016/_

 

Wow. That was a quick and helpful response, thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hmm. At those prices I'm either going to have to learn DIY or be selling this amp on quickly.


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright there,

 This seems more like the discussion thread for this topic, so hoping someone can help out. I've no experience with balanced gear at all, except for auditioning balanced HD650s and liking what I heard. I've placed a pre-order for the protector and now am a bit confused about how I'm actually going to use it.

 I had thought the connector pictured in the photos was to fit two ended balanced cables to the unit, now I've been informed they are "for DIY".

 Right... I don't know anything about DIY.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My question is - how am I going to use this thing?

 I've bought a 2x 3 pin XLR. Do I need to sell this on and get something different or can this be made to work with the right adapter? If so. What adapter?

 Sorry, excuse my ignorance, and thanks in advance for any advice/clarity provided.




_

 

Since, I have a extra HD580 cable sitting around, I was going to cut off the 1/4 connector end and hard-wire it directly to the connector provided by RSA.


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since, I have a extra HD580 cable sitting around, I was going to cut off the 1/4 connector end and hard-wire it directly to the connector provided by RSA._

 

How easy is it to do that? Could someone without any prior experience manage it?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I've bought a 2x 3 pin XLR. Do I need to sell this on and get something different or can this be made to work with the right adapter? If so. What adapter?
_

 

It's very simple.

 Just make an adapter Kobiconn 4pin (the one in the Protector) -> 2x XLR female 3-pin and you're fine. Basic cost shouldn't be more than 15 bucks.


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's very simple.

 Just make an adapter Kobiconn 4pin (the one in the Protector) -> 2x XLR female 3-pin and you're fine. Basic cost shouldn't be more than 15 bucks._

 

Yeah I was looking at RS just then and reckon it'd be a little less than that.

 My issue is I don't know anything about wiring or soldering (we aren't taught that stuff in school here).

 Ahh f-it, I'll be fine. I've recently bought all the stuff needed to make a cmoy which is a lot more complicated so I'm going to have to get over the techno fear at some point to make that.

 Will give it a go.

 P.S. Thanks for the advice and suggestions to all


----------



## mesasone

Soldering is very easy, I'm sure a decent tutorial on Youtube or a similar site should get you rolling no problem.


----------



## Duggeh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's very simple.

 Just make an adapter Kobiconn 4pin (the one in the Protector) -> 2x XLR female 3-pin and you're fine. Basic cost shouldn't be more than 15 bucks._

 


 Don't forget to follow the nonsense rule for DIY adapters.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please if you make an adaptor your self make sure you use a good quality wire with 18 AWG. Using thinner wire might not give you all the bottom end that the amp is capable of._

 


 Thin wire means no bass. WATCH OUT!


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Duggeh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget to follow the nonsense rule for DIY adapters.




 Thin wire means no bass. WATCH OUT!_

 

I truely don't know what is your problem, man. Have I pissed you off in the previuse life?

 Ray Samuels


----------



## El_Doug

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I truely don't know what is your problem, man. Have I pissed you off in the previuse life?

 Ray Samuels_

 

Duggeh used to be the Montana sausage eating champion, until YOU showed up.... person


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I truely don't know what is your problem, man. Have I pissed you off in the previuse life?

 Ray Samuels_

 

Well, I'd certainly like more info about the "thinner wire = less bass" theory.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'd certainly like more info about the "thinner wire = less bass" theory._

 

From the sam military wire, 600 volts, one 22 AWG, the other 18 AWG, 
 Using the same connectors on both ends, the balanced for the Protector & the XLR on the other end, both made by the same company, using the same Protector amp with the same CD player & the same CD. The sound on the 18 AWG is richer on the bottom, with great impact. Now I did say IT MIGHT BE, depending on what wire you use, who makes it, & other factors that have to do with it's purity or meterial used in it.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## AudioDwebe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Duggeh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't forget to follow the nonsense rule for DIY adapters.




 Thin wire means no bass. WATCH OUT!_

 


 Duggeh,

 Don't know you from Adam, but IMO, you're being a bit of an...how shall I say it? Let's just say you're not being very nice.

 How do you get to "no bass" from Ray's thread where he stated it "might" not provide the bass? He never said thin wire equals no bass. He said "might", as in "possible".


----------



## AudioDwebe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gp_hebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'd certainly like more info about the "thinner wire = less bass" theory._

 

Again, that was never said. I pretty much said that in the other thread, and left it at that. And now you come here spoutin' the same thing? C'mon, man. Really!??!?!

 First you missquote, and then on top of that you go on in this manner? You really want to argue cables? I don't get it.


----------



## gp_hebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Again, that was never said. I pretty much said that in the other thread, and left it at that. And now you come here spoutin' the same thing? C'mon, man. Really!??!?!

 First you missquote, and then on top of that you go on in this manner? You really want to argue cables? I don't get it._

 

I'm not sure what you mean by misquote, as it's Ray who suggested that using thinner wire might give less bottom end to the sound. To be honest, that's not a comment I expect from someone who has designed several circuits and has some engineering background, so I questioned Ray about it, that's all.

 If he doesn't want it in the other thread, that's fine with me as he paid for it, but it seems to me that this thread would be the right place to discuss the matter. I didn't intend to start a cable debate, I just wanted to hear Ray's opinion on the subject, considering he's the one who brought it up. I don't get why you're getting upset about this?


----------



## EddieE

OK,
 Just from a basic ABC logic point of view, and with no knowledge of DIY whatsoever...

 The headphone cable contains the final stretch of wire to bring current to the transducers right?

 So if the wire used in an interconnect was thinner/of lower grade material that that wire, I can see how an argument could be made that you could be missing potential... at least on a logical level and ignoring all arguments about wire and cable that have gone on before...

 But if you make the wire in the interconnect better than the wire in your headphone cable - how can that make an iota of difference?

 It still has the limitation always present in the wire in the headphone cable itself.

 I'm not trying to cause trouble here - as you can see above, I am someone with no experience of DIY who wants to make an interconnect.

 Good information is somewhat important to me, and I'd like this cleared up.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK,
 Just from a basic ABC logic point of view, and with no knowledge of DIY whatsoever...

 The headphone cable contains the final stretch of wire to bring current to the transducers right?

 So if the wire used in an interconnect was thinner/of lower grade material that that wire, I can see how an argument could be made that you could be missing potential... at least on a logical level and ignoring all arguments about wire and cable that have gone on before...

 But if you make the wire in the interconnect better than the wire in your headphone cable - how can that make an iota of difference?

 It still has the limitation always present in the wire in the headphone cable itself.

 I'm not trying to cause trouble here - as you can see above, I am someone with no experience of DIY who wants to make an interconnect.

 Good information is somewhat important to me, and I'd like this cleared up._

 


 Dude, everyone wants the cable thing cleared up, it aint gonna happen in this thread lol and im not trying to make fun of you, its just the truth


----------



## EddieE

Soup,
 Fair enough, but I'm not really talking about the broader cables debate, which I'm not interested in throwing my hat into.

 On this very simple and limited issue I do need some clariffication and whatever my own views on cable, for this question I will assume that wire does make a difference for the sake of avoidng tangents.

 If I put it like this -

 Let's put down the cable debate and assume for the sake of argument that wire used does make a difference.

 Within this world-view and ignoring all broader on-going debates -

 Can anyone give me a logical reason on how using wire in an interconnect that is thicker than the wire in the headphone cable make any difference.

 A logical reason.

 If no one can I'll assume the claim, as it sounds, is nonsense.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soup,
 Fair enough, but I'm not really talking about the broader cables debate, which I'm not interested in throwing my hat into.

 On this very simple and limited issue I do need some clariffication and whatever my own views on cable, for this question I will assume that wire does make a difference for the sake of avoidng tangents.

 If I put it like this -

 Let's put down the cable debate and assume for the sake of argument that wire used does make a difference.

 Within this world-view and ignoring all broader on-going debates -

 Can anyone give me a logical reason on how using wire in an interconnect that is thicker than the wire in the headphone cable make any difference.

 A logical reason.

 If no one can I'll assume the claim, as it sounds, is nonsense._

 

in that case, the only logical case for that would be that the length of the interconnect could be longer than the headphone cable, and thus a thicker gauge would limit the resistance to a value in line with the headphone cables value. Though i dont know what difference that would make. Though digital cables are a different ball game, they run at frequencies much higher than audible, and i guess skin effect could be a factor?? though i dont know on that one.


----------



## EddieE

Thanks Soup,
 So a short interconnect, a simple adapter like that which is called for in this case, there would be no advantages to using wire any thicker than the wire in the headphone cable?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Soup,
 So a short interconnect, a simple adapter like that which is called for in this case, there would be no advantages to using wire any thicker than the wire in the headphone cable?_

 

I dont want to go against what ray said, since he is the one that designed the amp, and is one of the few that has listened to it, but from a logical standpoint i would say no. But what in this hobby is logical


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But what in this hobby is logical 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So true! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand that after the work Ray's put into this amp he wants people to be using a high quality adapter with it, and might be worried that people might not get the best by botching their own jobs.

 A solution would be to get his team to produce some and offer them along with the amp at a reasonable mark up people will be happy to pay.

 I'm not some one who objects to a bit of a big mark up to save me trouble of learning a new skill and a lot of time.

 I'll accept buying a balanced cable running several feet, nicely finished, for $100 because that saves me a lot of time and effort and will probably be significantly more durable than my own effort would. I know that in terms of material used I'm getting a bit ripped off, but I don't mind paying that much for the convenience of being able to sit on my backside and wait for it to arrive. I'm a lazy guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But there are limits...

 This is a whole different story. We are talking about a minimal amount of wire I could cannabalise from old headphones or interconnects I already have, two female XLR connectors for a couple of quid each, and the connector Ray is selling for $2.50 each.

 There is no way I could look myself in the mirror without shame if I paid the sort of outrageous prices these MOT are offering. ($150 for an adapter that could be made for £10).

 I'm looking forward to enjoying this amp, but I don't want it to come pre-packaged with a feeling of embarrassment and irritation over being ripped off on the adapter.

 So it's got to be DIY.


----------



## jamato8

So I have been listening single ended for a while with the Ultrasone Ed. 9 and I am impressed. While they are easy to drive, for me, they also change easily according to what they are being fed. The detail and clean fast dynamics impresses but what surprises me is the width and depth of the sound field and any noticeable compression of that field on loud passages.


----------



## Mr Do

Am I correct that the Protector will come with an adapter to connect my Sennheiser HD25-1 with Stock 650 balanced cable?


----------



## mesasone

No, you will have to build or buy an adapter for that. It just comes with the connector that fits in the plug on the amp.


----------



## Mr Do

I thought my Headroom stock hd650 balanced cable would connect directly to the connector plugged into the amp. Then what's the point of the connector if it's not compatible with anything?


----------



## jamato8

You need to get an adapter. Not uncommon with many things. I can use some lenses that are for SLR's on my Leica rangefinder, with an adapter. There are several different balanced connectors and not one fits all. So you get an adapter. And if you were to use the large balanced connectors with something like the JH13 Pros, it would defeat the purpose of having lightweight IEM's with a portable balanced amp. So what you get is a small balanced connector that is inexpensive and easy to implement.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Speaking of the adaptor, have you had any trouble with the connector chosen for the protector? Such as problems with its inability to rotate?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Speaking of the adaptor, have you had any trouble with the connector chosen for the protector? Such as problems with its inability to rotate?_

 

Not yet. I wasn't sure if having it non rotating would be an issue but it has not turned out to be one. I have used the Protector in my jacket pocket, tossed in a small backpack on my back and in my cargo pocket in my pants and there was no problem with the cable. The way the male and female connectors are made they fit together very well and I was surprised at how strong the material is for the casing of the plug is. I bought 5 and with my fingers tried to pinch together the case before it was applied to the inner shell and could not do any damage. Now with the whole plug snapped together it is even stronger so the connection and plug appears to be very well thought out and built for long use and many, many, multiple repeated connections. I doubt anyone is ever going to wear this out.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not yet. I wasn't sure if having it non rotating would be an issue but it has not turned out to be one. I have used the Protector in my jacket pocket, tossed in a small backpack on my back and in my cargo pocket in my pants and there was no problem with the cable. The way the male and female connectors are made they fit together very well and I was surprised at how strong the material is for the casing of the plug is. I bought 5 and with my fingers tried to pinch together the case before it was applied to the inner shell and could not do any damage. Now with the whole plug snapped together it is even stronger so the connection and plug appears to be very well thought out and built for long use and many, many, multiple repeated connections. I doubt anyone is ever going to wear this out._

 

thanks for the info jamato 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now we just gotta hope other manufacturers dont use another different connector for their balanced portable amps, or at least wait till the general response comes back after the release of the protector.


----------



## Mr Do

jmato8
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is very easy to terminate the stock cable with the connector being used and you can buy a new cable for not much money. The cable I am using right now is terminated as a standard balanced cable and then uses an adapter going to the balanced termination plug that the Protector uses, as seen in previous images. It is a cable and adapter that Ray has made. The wire is the special military wire he uses for his IC's and the sound is excellent._

 

Hi jamato8 I apologize for being a balanced noob here. What exactly is on the end of your re terminated headphone cable that works with the supplied cable adapter that ray has made? I greatly appreciate all the info you have given us headfiers regarding the Protector. Keep up the good work!

 Thank you.
 Sincerely,
 Do!


----------



## mesasone

meh.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr Do* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jmato8


 Hi jamato8 I apologize for being a balanced noob here. What exactly is on the end of your re terminated headphone cable that works with the supplied cable adapter that ray has made? I greatly appreciate all the info you have given us headfiers regarding the Protector. Keep up the good work!

 Thank you.
 Sincerely,
 Do!_

 

I am pretty sure the adaptor that ray provided is a 2 x 3 pin XLR female to protector connector male. Though one could also made from a 4 pin XLR as well. Or for IEMs im pretty sure that jamato just got a new cable with the protector connector on the end so it can be used without an adaptor


----------



## Mr Do

Thank you.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr Do* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you._

 

Not a problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 luckily for myself my only headphones are jh-13s, and i already had the TWag recable, so im just getting them reterminated and then an adaptor so i can still use them with single ended sources.


----------



## EddieE

Just want to make clear since the word "provided" is being used that this was a connector Ray provided to jamato - there is no provided cable with the protector and Ray won't provide you with one. You have to make your own, re-terminate your own cable or go to a third party. 

 Unfortunatly the only third parties selling so far are offering luxury products with silver wire and exotic wood splitters.

 Big gap in the market for a seasoned DIYer to make some money with reasonably priced equivellents...


----------



## Mr Do

My local audio dealer will reterminate or build any cable I want for a small fee so I'm in the clear. He's runs a small indepentend shop so the service he provides is second to none.


----------



## Mr Do

I've contacted double helix cables and zx audio in regards to custom adapters and cables compatible with the Protector. I'm still waiting for a response. I know whiplash audio will reterminate any cable sent for a fee. I can't imagine Ray not offering his own cables and adapters upon the Protectors release. Will have to wait and see.


----------



## jamato8

One thing I have noticed about the Protector is that it neutral. I make my own IC's of different configurations and I have some of other makes. Sometimes I have a hard time hearing much difference but with the Protector I can tell as the connector does a better job. It is very revealing of anything upstream and just sounds better and better as the signal being fed it increases in quality. 

 Enjoying the music is what this amp is all about.


----------



## xuan87

has anyone made a female protector plug- 3.5mm male adapter? i'm looking at the female protector, and since it's designed to be mounted, i'm wondering how effective it would be as an adapter.


----------



## xuan87

oh and jamato, if it's possible, can you list some flaws of the Protector? i always like a 'balanced' review, pun definitely intended hahahah


----------



## Mr Do

I sent zx audio a link to the adapter on Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor. He told me he's sure he could build an adapter and cable for the protector. Give them a shout for what you want.


----------



## tjumper78

i dont know much about the electronic stuff such as voltage, ohm, etc. 
 i asked this question in ray's pre-order thread but it wasnt answered.
 someone help, please!

 a popular amp built by another company is said to have 2-cell (8.4V) battery (i dont want to bring up its name in this thread). the protector has 16.8 volts.
 does that mean the protector (in single-ended mode) has twice-stronger power to drive big cans?


----------



## jc9394

Ray is ready to ship, payment info is up on his MOT thread.


----------



## djbnh

Thank you for the notification that Ray is ready to ship, much appreciated.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh and jamato, if it's possible, can you list some flaws of the Protector? i always like a 'balanced' review, pun definitely intended hahahah_

 


 I am not ignoring you but I haven't found anything that stands out. I will be very happy when others get their hands on this amp. The better the upstream feed to this amp the better it sound. The fault I have is I listen too much. The JH13's with the TWag balanced cable and the Protector seem like they were made for each other. I am using the dual optical in MB-2 dac that Ryuzoh is handling. With the lossless feed from m iRiver H140 the transparency and drive with this chain of electronics is totally top tier. I was tired of Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" but this setup breaths new life into it.


----------



## xuan87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not ignoring you but I haven't found anything that stands out. I will be very happy when others get their hands on this amp. The better the upstream feed to this amp the better it sound. The fault I have is I listen too much. The JH13's with the TWag balanced cable and the Protector seem like they were made for each other. I am using the dual optical in MB-2 dac that Ryuzoh is handling. With the lossless feed from m iRiver H140 the transparency and drive with this chain of electronics is totally top tier. I was tired of Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" but this setup breaths new life into it._

 

haha i understand what you mean. i got that feeling when i first tried the HF-2 and the little dot mkiii. no portable amp has left that kind of impression on me before but the Protector can be the 1st!


----------



## jamato8

ATH-ES10 

 I am listening to them balanced with the Protector. Very nice. Solid bass that is well controlled. You can tell the phones have a bit more bass delivery than the ESW10. Not sure if I like the bass peak but in other areas they are great fun balanced with excellent depth to the sound and good stage width.


----------



## xuan87

how did you balanced the ES10? you reterminated it? or recabled it entirely?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how did you balanced the ES10? you reterminated it? or recabled it entirely?_

 

Same cable and just reterminated them.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

So i dont know what your musical tastes consist of jamato 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but i was wondering if you had listened to any metal with that sweet protector you've got?


----------



## jamato8

I listen to rock, blues, jazz, classical and very little country. I am trying to think if I have any metal but there is no reason the amp won't do fine with it. A well made amp should play any type of music but I understand what you are saying. I will look at my library and see what I can find. 

 Any groups you favor?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listen to rock, blues, jazz, classical and very little country. I am trying to think if I have any metal but there is no reason the amp won't do fine with it. A well made amp should play any type of music but I understand what you are saying. I will look at my library and see what I can find. 

 Any groups you favor?_

 

oh wow, too many, All That Remains and The Black Dahlia Murder are probably my two favorites 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but unless you're a metal head too, you probably wouldnt want to listen to them. Maybe Animals as Leaders, really awesome progressive Metal, its instrumental as well, or Insomnium which is melodic death metal, bbut i think is some of the most epic music i've ever lsitened to. I would use Origin's "Antithesis" as a torture test, but thats Technical Death Metal.

 Thanks for any insights 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and sorry if you find any of the above music to be awful


----------



## Skylab

In the time I had it, I thought the Protector sounded excellent with goth metal and prog metal - I listened to some Opeth, Aghora, Epica, Theater of Tragedy, and Sirenia on the Protector with the HE-5 - and this all sounded truly excellent.


----------



## jamato8

Thanks for posting that Skylab. I don't have much music of the metal genre. 

*I found out that the Protector will start shipping at the end of next week.*

 A simple phone call for info. I used to be a morse code specialist in Vietnam when we couldn't get out any other way (horrible war). Communication has come a long way. Cell phones now and then I sat there tapping out code. :^) Of course the code was encrypted but then talk can be also.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I found out that the Protector will start shipping at the end of next week.*_

 

Good news


----------



## SoupRKnowva

oh man, souprknowva's hopes had gotten up that it was going to ship friday or monday at the latest lol oh well, now my jh-13's have time to get here

 Edit: oh and thanks for the info skylab 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just wanted to make sure it could keep up with the frenetic pace of some of my metal


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm not of the exact same sentiment: on 3/3 Ray said orders were going to be taken, and I was of the impression that Ray was going to ship from the "built 90 units of the balanced Protectors" when he received the $, whether it be PayPal or check. Check in my case would take longer to mail out.

 So, I used PayPal on 3/3, the date Ray opened ordering, and paid the extra in fees so I could get the $ to Ray ASAP, and the unit shipped out ASAP. According to the recent posting by Jamato, fast shipping apparently is not going to happen; instead, units will be shipped out on the following weekend - is that Saturday the 13th? That would make amp shipment, in my case, a full 10 days after payment, which I feel that is too long between payment and order fulfillment. For example, one can order goods from other online stores and get it shipped out the next day or the day after; that is what I was expecting in this case.

 I imagine the best thing may be for me to call Ray. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I appreciate the information that shipping of the units is being held up for whatever reasons; I wish potential purchasers had been told that _prior to_ opening up the ordering process.


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djbnh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not of the exact same sentiment: on 3/3 Ray said orders were going to be taken, and I was of the impression that Ray was going to ship from the "built 90 units of the balanced Protectors" when he received the $, whether it be PayPal or check. Check in my case would take longer to mail out.

 So, I used PayPal on 3/3, the date Ray opened ordering, and paid the extra in fees so I could get the $ to Ray ASAP, and the unit shipped out ASAP. According to the recent posting by Jamato, fast shipping apparently is not going to happen; instead, units will be shipped out on the following weekend - is that Saturday the 13th? That would make amp shipment, in my case, a full 10 days after payment, which I feel that is too long between payment and order fulfillment. For example, one can order goods from other online stores and get it shipped out the next day or the day after; that is what I was expecting in this case._

 

Agreed.

 EDIT: Why did you pay any fees though? RSA is a business, there shouldn't have been any fees for you.

  Quote:


 I imagine the best thing may be for me to call Ray. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Not agreed. 

 It's not your responsibility.

  Quote:


 However, I appreciate the information that shipping of the units is being held up for whatever reasons; I wish potential purchasers had been told that _prior to_ opening up the ordering process. 
 

Agreed.


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed.

 EDIT: Why did you pay any fees though? RSA is a business, there shouldn't have been any fees for you._

 

From Ray's ordering information:
 "The black Protector balanced portable amp is $425.00 at intro price.
 The clear/white Protector is $440.00

 If you live in the US & you transfer the money via pay-pal the total for black is $452.17.
 Don't forget to add $2.58 for each connector you order.

 If you live in the US & want to pay via money order or any check the total for black Protector is $439.00.
 Please don't forget to add $2.50 for each connector you want.


----------



## EddieE

Oh I understand, I thought you meant paypal fees.

 Agree with what you said though. I sent RSA several hundred pounds two days ago.

 No email confirming the order, no shipment date, questions from customers being ignored on the order thread.

 It's a disgrace. As is the notion that we are supposed to act as though we are members of a fan club and not customers in a business transaction.


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a disgrace. As is the notion that we are supposed to act as though we are members of a fan club and not customers in a business transaction._

 

I see your point, but a week is nothing compared to what some members have been waiting for, for certain products on the forum. People just need to take a breather, Ray is pumping out other products (including the protector) in a very timely fashion, all of which he has brought to the market pretty quickly from development. We'll have our amps pretty soon


----------



## jamato8

I think using the word disgrace is extreme. Ray has an excellent customer care reputation. I would imagine for a one man shop, with a helper, it could be and is daunting at times when orders flood in. Seems Ray has kept a pretty good schedule of getting orders out. He doesn't take months or never as a friend of mine has done, he ships and often within a day. That he is putting together the amps and has stated that the literature was coming in was posted. At least you know it will be shipped soon. I had to wait for my Leica for 3 months and then there was no guarantee it would be in in three months.


----------



## jamato8

This amp kicks it. That it can finally make my HD650's sing and I don't have to buy anything but a hand full of amp is amazing. Finally, my 650's sound like I dreamed they should. Now back to Hell Freezes Over.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh I understand, I thought you meant paypal fees.

 Agree with what you said though. I sent RSA several hundred pounds two days ago.

 No email confirming the order, no shipment date, questions from customers being ignored on the order thread.

 It's a disgrace. As is the notion that we are supposed to act as though we are members of a fan club and not customers in a business transaction._

 

I sent my PayPal on the same day I reserved one. I knew Ray was good for it.
 Have we gotten so spoiled that we must have everything immediately. When I was a Kid we were lucky to get mail order things in weeks instead of months


----------



## jamato8

When I was a kid I waited for a battleship from a Kellogs cereal carton. I sent a quarter in the mail with the coupon. I waited and waited. That was in 1957. Guess what, I am still waiting. lol I still want the thing. Think it will get to me. :^)


----------



## Ray Samuels

Wow...


----------



## vcoheda

great impressions jamato. keep up the good work.

 ray - don't listen to the bad apples.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Ray, this is what we get when the next generation is raised to feel entitled to everything, with no consideration to how it's been done for years before without problems. When I sent the money I didn't expect it to be shipped immediately, but assumed that it was just time to start collecting money for the pre-orders that would ship soon. Been there done that, nothing new. People - nobody is taking advantage of the customers, nothing to see here, so complainers go away.


----------



## mesasone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ray, this is what we get when the next generation is raised to feel entitled to everything, with no consideration to how it's been done for years before without problems. When I sent the money I didn't expect it to be shipped immediately, but assumed that it was just time to start collecting money for the pre-orders that would ship soon. Been there done that, nothing new. People - nobody is taking advantage of the customers, nothing to see here, so complainers go away._

 

Please, this is ridiculous. "Entitled"? It has been my experience that many modern businesses - including large retailers such as Amazon and small vendors on eBay - will ship a product with in 48 hours after receiving payment. I don't think it's unreasonable for somebody who has not dealt with Ray before to expect the same unless it's been communicated otherwise.


----------



## jamato8

Well some are frustrated and some are not. The amp will start shipping the end of this coming week, so with that known, hopefully we can all move on now.


----------



## mesasone

I agree John, and I look forward to hearing others' impressions of this amp. I took my name out of the hat, so to speak, as I don't know if I really want to deal with reterminate my heads and building an adapter, etc but I may end up regretting it.

 Instead I've picked up a desktop amp from the FS so I'll have an idea what to expect in the future. Still looking forward to a good portable/transportable solution though.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djbnh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From Ray's ordering information:
 "The black Protector balanced portable amp is $425.00 at intro price.
 The clear/white Protector is $440.00

 If you live in the US & you transfer the money via pay-pal the total for black is $452.17.
 Don't forget to add $2.58 for each connector you order.

 If you live in the US & want to pay via money order or any check the total for black Protector is $439.00.
 Please don't forget to add $2.50 for each connector you want._

 

I'd like to hear Ray's side of this. I have a very hard time believing that Ray Samuels, a legitimate business is charging people for PayPal fees that are the responsibility of the seller - for all of his products. But this intro price is a promotion for Head-Fiers. Did you consider that if he included the PayPal fees in it he could just charge you a higher intro price? Perhaps that's what he needs to do to appease you and prevent himself from getting in trouble with PayPal. He could just charge you an intro price of $455 instead of $425.

 But you guys should really chill out that he is a week behind shipping out a brand new product. If it had been out for a year already, I'd say fine, you have a legitimate beef. But this is a brand new item and he's probably been working round the clock to assemble them. It's worth the wait.


----------



## EddieE

You're misunderstanding me. 

 It's not that I expect my amp to be sent out the next day, it's that I expect when I buy something from a business to get some kind of confirmation email saying my funds are received and saying when the shipping date is, and yes, thanking me for my order. I wouldn't care if that shipping date was in a day or a fortnight, I want to be informed.

 That RSA is a "one man business" is none of my concern, neither do I care how long anyone else had to wait for any other amp.

 I am the one paying here, I don't owe anyone my heart felt thanks for taking my money off me and I don't feel grateful that they are going to provide me an amp for it.

 This is supposed to be a business transaction, yet I am being called a "bad apple" for expecting the most basic standards of proffessionality?


----------



## djbnh

To all:

 1) I think Ray produces quality equipment. I also think Ray runs a business.

 2) I expressed an opinion and non-vehemently at that. Forum members have that right.

 3) The tenor of some (not all) replies gives me pause, kind of like, "Your opinion is wrong, so shut up, I'm the only one who knows what's right." Interesting.

 Thanks to all for the insights this thread is producing about the product and otherwise.


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


 I think using the word disgrace is extreme. Ray has an excellent customer care reputation. 
 

OK I agree that "disgrace" was a bit of an extreme choice of words, but I am very disappointed by the customer care shown in this case.

 It's not just the lack of any kind of confirmation of my payment or that the confirmation of a shipping date had to come third hand from someone who had to phone RSA to find it out, it is also the number of reasonable questions from customers on the order thread that have been outright ignored.

 This is not normal. Others may be happy to accept this kind of business practice but as a consumer who has just paid £300 for a product I expect better and have a perfect right to express that.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to hear Ray's side of this. I have a very hard time believing that Ray Samuels, a legitimate business is charging people for PayPal fees that are the responsibility of the seller - for all of his products._

 

Ray is charging 3% or 4% if you use Paypal. (4% for Canada)

_"Transferring money from Canada via pay-pal the total for black Protector is $482.45."

 "Shipping to Canada is $38.00"_

 482.45 - 38 = 444.38
 444.38 - 425 = 19.38 (Paypal fees)


----------



## EddieE

I don't actually see any problem with RSA figuring paypal charges into their pricing. That is pretty standard business practice.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't actually see any problem with RSA figuring paypal charges into their pricing. That is pretty standard business practice._

 

Justin didn't charge me the Paypal fees for my Pico Slim


----------



## EddieE

Did Justin accept any other means of payment? 

 If he didn't work paypal fees into his profit margins, he made a bit of a mistake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sometimes you will find companies presenting an "online discount" or "direct debit discount", which is a dishonest way of saying they are charging for the extra costs involved in other means of payment.

 Every business takes all costs into account when setting prices.

 RSA _could_ have said "special discount for money order" - it would have amounted to the same thing but been a bit less honest.

 RSA are being transparent about the paypal costs, I have no problem with that.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Every business takes all costs into account when setting prices._

 

x2. Anyway it's not the end of the world..

 Can't wait to compare both amps with my JH13s !


----------



## EddieE

Agreed. 

 Gripes regarding customer service aside, I'm really looking forward to hearing what this amp, and balanced sound, can do for my phones


----------



## shigzeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2. Anyway it's not the end of the world..

 Can't wait to compare both amps with my JH13s !_

 

The JH13Pro doesn't work balanced does it without major customisation?


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The JH13Pro doesn't work balanced does it without major customisation?_

 

I have the TWag balanced cable for my JH13s


----------



## qusp

yeah, dont know that I would call retermination 'major customization'


----------



## EddieE

LMAO! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess I'm not looking forward to trying this amp!

 Ray Samuel's just refunded my pay pal account!

 Never let it be said Ray Samuel's is petty or that he considers his business practices beyond rational critique!

 What a champ!


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did Justin accept any other means of payment? 

 If he didn't work paypal fees into his profit margins, he made a bit of a mistake. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sometimes you will find companies presenting an "online discount" or "direct debit discount", which is a dishonest way of saying they are charging for the extra costs involved in other means of payment.

 Every business takes all costs into account when setting prices.

 RSA could have said "special discount for money order" - it would have amounted to the same thing but been a bit less honest.

 RSA are being transparent about the paypal costs, I have no problem with that._

 

If you are suggesting that I would have slightly lower prices if PayPal did not take any fees, you are wrong. I don't even bother adding up costs anymore because it doesn't change what I want to build and it doesn't change what people are willing to pay. The "cost" is that not accepting PayPal means sales would be much lower. It is against PayPal's rules to charge a fee, same with charging extra credit card payments. I happen to believe a good # of people would not be willing to pay the fee knowing that they're not responsible for it. No store would get away with tacking on 3-4% because you used a credit card


----------



## EddieE

Fair play to you Justin, that's very good natured of you. 

 Most business men would figure pay pal costs into their price if they intended to sell via pay pal, that's all I was saying. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

 EDIT - and it is extremely common (in the UK at least) for businesses to offer a "discount" for using methods of payment that don't incur them a charge - a dishonest way of saying they are going to charge you for the cost incurred.

 EDIT AGAIN - I hope you didn't think I was referring to you when I said "other businesses" in the post you quoted? I wasn't at all. I have no issues with your business in any way.


----------



## Mr Do

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are suggesting that I would have slightly lower prices if PayPal did not take any fees, you are wrong. I don't even bother adding up costs anymore because it doesn't change what I want to build and it doesn't change what people are willing to pay. The "cost" is that not accepting PayPal means sales would be much lower. It is against PayPal's rules to charge a fee, same with charging extra credit card payments. I happen to believe a good # of people would not be willing to pay the fee knowing that they're not responsible for it. No store would get away with tacking on 3-4% because you used a credit card_

 

Agreed 100%


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fair play to you Justin, that's very good natured of you. 

 Most business men would figure pay pal costs into their price if they intended to sell via pay pal, that's all I was saying. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

 EDIT - and it is extremely common (in the UK at least) for businesses to offer a "discount" for using methods of payment that don't incur them a charge - a dishonest way of saying they are going to charge you for the cost incurred.

 EDIT AGAIN - I hope you didn't think I was referring to you when I said "other businesses" in the post you quoted? I wasn't at all. I have no issues with your business in any way._

 

I only responded because you said my name in the first sentence of the post I quoted. Did you also know that the 3% fee is the base rate? The rate goes down to 2.2% if >10k is received monthly or 1.9% if >100k monthly.


----------



## EddieE

Well if people think it is bad form to charge the customer charges, I'm not going to argue with them. I'm a bit more cynical I guess and I expect that sort of thing from any business as inevitable.

 Complaining about getting no confirmation email after a hefty money transfer and then being refunded and refused an amp as "punishment" I find a little harder to rationalise... To be honest it is the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a spoilt five year old.


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only responded because you said my name in the first sentence of the post I quoted. Did you also know that the 3% fee is the base rate? The rate goes down to 2.2% if >10k is received monthly or 1.9% if >100k monthly._

 

Fair play dude, I realise it was deceptively worded. Rest assured, I was genuinely not having a pop at you or your business. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I didn't realise that (about the base rates), it is interesting but perhaps a point for Ray Samuel's to respond to since I have now had my custom refused by him it's really nothing to do with me.


----------



## boomy3555

There have been discussions in other threads about Ray's business pratices not following the norm. Ray is an artist. If you've evr met him, you know this right away.
 It is not his responability to conform. If you choose not to purchase from RSA because you don't like his way of doing things, So be it. There are plenty of us out there willing to bend a bit for the advantages of what we consider "art" and music to us is art. 
 High end audio, especially portable audio is a niche, that you cannot place against normal business models.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The JH13Pro doesn't work balanced does it without major customisation?_

 

 There are other four wire after market cables that are not "Cryo'd" for around 60.00. and a simple job of changing the end connector can be done by any Radio Shack geek. Not a major modification.


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There have been discussions in other threads about Ray's business pratices not following the norm. Ray is an artist. If you've evr met him, you know this right away.
 It is not his responability to conform. If you choose not to purchase from RSA because you don't like his way of doing things, So be it. There are plenty of us out there willing to bend a bit for the advantages of what we consider "art" and music to us is art. 
 High end audio, especially portable audio is a niche, that you cannot place against normal business models._

 

Yeah I'm sorry but you can. On a basic level is someone is going to make money off something they do they have to follow BASIC good form with their customers. I am talking basic here - not highly advanced things - the bare minimum.

 I'm not expecting a small business to match a major multinational, I'm really just expecting common courtesy -

 - You pay someone £300+ for a product - they let you know they've received the money and tell you when you can expect the product. A "thanks for your custom" is not essential, but certainly nice.

 That's not even a high level business model - that's just being polite. But for someone trying to operate a business? Even people selling stuff on classifieds or people selling stuff on ebay manage that.

 "If I chose not to..."

 What are you talking about? 

 I chose to. 

 I chose to give him pretty much all my expendable income for that month, and then when I had the temerity to question why I had received no confirmation of that payment or shipping date from him I was essentially told to ***** off and keep my money.

 Yep, he's an artist all right. I'm not going to say what he is an artist of...


----------



## BIG POPPA

To me it is very bad manners to discuss a business's way of charging or doing things financially. It is good business to contact them and address your concerns. If you do not feel comfortable with the business do not do business with them, simple as that. To post in a forum hypothetical reasoning is not cool.


----------



## EddieE

BIG POPPA,
 What are you on about? A business is not a person, even if a person is running a business.

 Businesses absolutely should be discussed in public, in the interests of the consumer.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well if people think it is bad form to charge the customer charges, I'm not going to argue with them. I'm a bit more cynical I guess and I expect that sort of thing from any business as inevitable.

 Complaining about getting no confirmation email after a hefty money transfer and then being refunded and refused an amp as "punishment" I find a little harder to rationalise... To be honest it is the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a spoilt five year old._

 

you are the one thats behaving like a spoiled kid, aren't you taking everything for granted here? complaining here won't get you anything. not getting this amp is your lose in my opinion. They won't change their way of doing business because of an individual like you. majority of us are happy with ray's service. if u don't like it, simply go away.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are other four wire after market cables that are not "Cryo'd" for around 60.00. and a simple job of changing the end connector can be done by any Radio Shack geek. Not a major modification._

 

i'm assuming u are talking about the enyo cable from null audio. i contacted them and asked them if it is possible to buy the cable without the connector and they have no problem with it. but they do suggest to keep the connector because they are upgrading it to a better one. i guess it is the cheapest option right now.


----------



## EddieE

nycdoi,
 What am I taking for granted exactly?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BIG POPPA,
 What are you on about? A business is not a person, even if a person is running a business.

 Businesses absolutely should be discussed in public, in the interests of the consumer._

 

At their discretion. A private company has the right to disclose what the feel necessary. A publicly held company is something different. EddieE please contact Ray if you need some answers to your concerns and move on.


----------



## Mr Do

The artist wrap is crap and doesn't excuse anyone. It's obvious to me Ray's business techniques seem a little questionable. That being said I can't wait to here my amp and willing to deal with it. At least pay pal responded to me paying there fee. LOL! I'm not trying to piss anyone off or attack anyone personally just thought that was funny. Kudos to Ray for his amps.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nycdoi,
 What am I taking for granted exactly?_

 

weren't you complaining about how ray does his business? not all merchants do the same way. some might do things the way u mentioned in few pages back and you are taking that for granted for every business.


----------



## EddieE

BIG POPPA,
 Yes, a business can operate (legally) how ever they like. Consumers can also express their opinions freely too.

 I have no concerns to contact "Ray" about, neither any concerns to contact the business RSA I had been dealing with. I'm simply making it public, in the interests of potential future RSA customers, that if you question RSA in any way you will be refused their business.

 I would say that information is in the public interest wouldn't you?


----------



## EddieE

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_weren't you complaining about how ray does his business? not all merchants do the same way. some might do things the way u mentioned in few pages back and you are taking that for granted for every business._

 

I was complaining about receiving no confirmation of my order, or shipping date from RSA. A business I had just wired several hundred pounds to.

 That's not me telling "Ray" how to run his business - that's telling RSA what I expect as their customer.

 My making public of the subsequent refusal of business was my way of telling my fellow consumers what to expect from doing business with RSA.

 Where is the problem here?

 EDIT - Anyway - that is the end of it from me. I've made my statement and there's no point lingering on it.


----------



## jamato8

Geez, I go to sleep and look what happens. 

 Credit card companies and PayPal don't want the 3% or whatever charge there is added or discounted if not used, because the consumer looks for ways to not use them. And if they do need to use them but then realize they have to pay extra for it they are pissed at the credit card company or PayPal, not the seller. Years ago I worked in a camera store and we offered a 3 percent discount if the customer paid by cash. It was an accepted business practice and people appreciated it understanding that we, the business, were charged for the CC transaction and they could benefit with cash. Who didn't benefit? The CC company of course. Not only didn't they receive the merchant fee they didn't get the possibility of a monthly interest charge on the monies used. 

 To stay in business all costs have to be figured into the final cost of doing business, like it or not. Even if you don't want to figure it in, it will be because adjustments will be made when the bottom line is realized. Some time back I was a comptroller of a multimillion dollar company. You have to know where your costs lie, even the hidden ones if you have any hope of staying in a prolonged business venture. You don't get somethin' for nothin'.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm assuming u are talking about the enyo cable from null audio. i contacted them and asked them if it is possible to buy the cable without the connector and they have no problem with it. but they do suggest to keep the connector because they are upgrading it to a better one. i guess it is the cheapest option right now._

 

There is an eBay seller named "awwan" ( I think I spelled it correctly). I really like his cable and it is four wire braided SPOFC for around 60.00


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I dont really care about the paypal fees thing, like yeah its against the terms of use or whatever on paypals site, but if he didnt do it that way, everyone would just have to pay more even if they werent using paypal, ray wouldnt just eat that cost. But i didnt like as much finding out we had to wait an extra week, i thought when he asked for money that he was going to at least ship those 90 amps he said were finished, but it really doesnt bother me all that much since my jh-13s are still at jh audio getting refit, so i wouldnt benefit from getting the amp tomorrow anyways.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm assuming u are talking about the enyo cable from null audio. i contacted them and asked them if it is possible to buy the cable without the connector and they have no problem with it. but they do suggest to keep the connector because they are upgrading it to a better one. i guess it is the cheapest option right now._

 

Are you saying that they are getting a better version of the balanced connector???


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Agree with what you said though. I sent RSA several hundred pounds two days ago.

 No email confirming the order, no shipment date, questions from customers being ignored on the order thread.

 It's a disgrace. As is the notion that we are supposed to act as though we are members of a fan club and not customers in a business transaction._

 

Read your post carefuly, you paid 2 days ago & you want your amp to be served on a silver platter?
 This is not a regular daily shipping we are dealing with here. This is the first of it's kind, new amp being shipped in large quantities, with all kind or requests regardcing S#s & colors.
 Then you go on calling it a disgrace?
 Ray Samuels


----------



## EddieE

Read my post carefully, Ray, you seem to have missed the point.

 It's not in any way related to *when* the amp was due to be shipped - it's about the fact that I did not get an email confirming you had registered the payment and telling me when it would be sent.

 Even "I expect the amp to be ready to send around [INSERT ROUGH DATE] but will confirm precise date when I know" would have been perfectly acceptable to me.

 But I get it Ray - you do what you want and if anyone questions it - you refund their money and refuse an amp to them.

 Cool. 

 Just so long as all your potential customers know what to expect...


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Complaining about getting no confirmation email after a hefty money transfer and then being refunded and refused an amp as "punishment" I find a little harder to rationalise... To be honest it is the sort of behaviour you'd expect from a spoilt five year old._

 

Did he actually tell you he was refusing to sell you an amp, or are you just assuming that? He could have just refunded your money for the week so you don't get upset about being without it. You should really clarify that with him.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read my post carefully, Ray, you seem to have missed the point.

 It's not in any way related to *when* the amp was due to be shipped - it's about the fact that I did not get an email confirming you had registered the payment and telling me when it would be sent.

 Even "I expect the amp to be ready to send around [INSERT ROUGH DATE] but will confirm precise date when I know" would have been perfectly acceptable to me.

 But I get it Ray - you do what you want and if anyone questions it - you refund their money and refuse an amp to them.

 Cool. 

 Just so long as all your potential customers know what to expect..._

 

we get it dude, you wanted to warn us...and now you have. Can you move on? some of us are willing to deal with the niche nature of our hobby, and all the idiosyncrasies that go along with that. Im sure the reason ray didnt do what you're asking is that it would have taken quite a chunk of time to write our emails to every single person that sent payment, time that could much better be used to build the amps we all want so bad.


----------



## EddieE

Soup,
 I'd just said I was finished and that was the last I was going to say about it.

 Ray addressed me. I responded.

 Once again, I am done.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying that they are getting a better version of the balanced connector???_

 

no they are getting a better version of 3.5mm plug and here is the original msg i received from them

_Dear Sir,

 Please visit Null-audio.net or null-
 audio.com/store to view picture of different color 
 configurations.

 We plan to change our connector to Viablue 3.5mm 
 stereo connector next week. It is so far the best 
 we can found in region, are you sure you wish to 
 change yourself?

 - kennull_


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no they are getting a better version of 3.5mm plug and here is the original msg i received from them

Dear Sir,

Please visit Null-audio.net or null-
audio.com/store to view picture of different color 
configurations.

We plan to change our connector to Viablue 3.5mm 
stereo connector next week. It is so far the best 
we can found in region, are you sure you wish to 
change yourself?

- kennull_

 


 Will they discount the cost of the 3.5 connector and ship a cable "bare wire" or are they saying that they want to ship the whole thing and you will be stuck with the connector anyway, so why not wait for a better connector? Sorry, I guess my question was, are they willing to make a cable with the "Balanced Protector" connector ?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no they are getting a better version of 3.5mm plug and here is the original msg i received from them

Dear Sir,

 Please visit Null-audio.net or null-
 audio.com/store to view picture of different color 
 configurations.

 We plan to change our connector to Viablue 3.5mm 
 stereo connector next week. It is so far the best 
 we can found in region, are you sure you wish to 
 change yourself?

 - kennull_

 

Oh got ya, luckily craig's always used the viablue 3.5mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 im just hoping someone releases a better connector the the balanced on the protector, hence my previous excitement lol


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will they discount the cost of the 3.5 connector and ship a cable "bare wire" or are they saying that they want to ship the whole thing and you will be stuck with the connector anyway, so why not wait for a better connector?_

 

i dont think they will discount the 3.5mm connectors but they might separated it from the wire and ship it to you along.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ so why not wait for a better connector?_

 

agree, thats what i intended to do.


----------



## mesasone

This is really disappointing... I hope this thread does not need to be closed like the other. I don't necessarily agree with some of Ray's business practices, but is it really THAT big of a deal that we have to crap up this entire thread (and potentially have it closed)?


----------



## vcoheda

people complaining about a *1 week* delay in shipping is absurd. people should stop derailing this thread with inane posts.


----------



## travisg

Thank you Ray for making the effort to produce this amp and deal with the drama. I sent my money and there was a problem with my address and you promptly emailed me so I could fix the problem I'm looking forward to hearing your Protector.


----------



## nycdoi

question - is it possible to reterminate a regular custom headphone cable at the Y split to use with the balanced connector? i could like to make one to use with the protector temporary before a quad braided cable arrive.


----------



## boomy3555

I did just that with my first sets of Denons, I placed a mini XLR 4 pin in place of the "Y". then I can use any cable I choose to make, Balanced or single ended. Most DIY'ers choose to completely replace the cable all the way into the cans, but I feel that the short stretch of stock cable will not add or detract that much from the SQ


----------



## Jarmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vcoheda* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_people complaining about a *1 week* delay in shipping is absurd. people should stop derailing this thread with inane posts._

 

Well to be fair, I'm getting my Hifiman on Monday and was really looking forward to trying my whole setup this week. That and I want to get rid of Null audio cable as fast as possible. So yea a week delay does suck. Is it the end of the world, no.


----------



## SACD-Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_question - is it possible to reterminate a regular custom headphone cable at the Y split to use with the balanced connector? i could like to make one to use with the protector temporary before a quad braided cable arrive._

 

I would like to say a few things before commenting on the cable question. 

 Many businesses work within Headfi and function almost like a community. Many of us know each other personally and become friends. We use Headfi for the means to provide products that serve our tastes and interests, hobbies and obsessions (Larry). Some of us is not an Amazon that can stock thousands in inventory and ship the same day. In fact, our blood sweat and tears are used to hand make most of our products. I can speak for my myself and MANY others that we have grown custom to have answers in minutes not hours. Product in hours not days. I know that I'm working 7 days a week, 14-16 hours on some days and still raise a family and act as humanly possible. 

 Please treat us the same as you expect to be treated. 

 Cable question: 
 In order for any cable to be terminated with RSA connector, you need 4 wires. If you have that, than it can be terminated anywhere you would like. Some think that you can share grounds; NO!

 So, if your headphone has 3 wires (conductors) than you have to recable from the top to bottom. If it has 4 wires, than you can terminate anywhere you would like.

 Cool?

 Craig


----------



## nycdoi

well each side has 2separated cables and the ground combine at the y split as far as i can see it from a clear/silver westone cable.


----------



## SACD-Man

Ahhh - great question and yes it can be terminated "above" the y split. 

 Each side needs 2.

 I know that most of you know this, but I have been flooded with these questions and hopefully this will help answer a few.

 Craig


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EddieE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read my post carefully, Ray, you seem to have missed the point.

 It's not in any way related to *when* the amp was due to be shipped - it's about the fact that I did not get an email confirming you had registered the payment and telling me when it would be sent.

 Even "I expect the amp to be ready to send around [INSERT ROUGH DATE] but will confirm precise date when I know" would have been perfectly acceptable to me.

 But I get it Ray - you do what you want and if anyone questions it - you refund their money and refuse an amp to them.

 Cool. 

 Just so long as all your potential customers know what to expect..._

 

Dude you must have the most "I'm done saying this, but now I'm back again to say it again" ever! Thanks for your vigilance, but I did Paypal for the convenience.

 Since we're all happily sidetracking while waiting for our Protectors, I recently read a NYTimes article about how Visa is winning the battle against Mastercard by increasing the amount of extra charged. That way, more banks prefer to issue Visas, but merchants get screwed, and they passed on screwed up prices to consumers.

 Since then I've been using Debit whenever possible. I'm glad that Ray gave us an option- and an incentive- to avoid these fees. Too bad I'm too lazy and excited to send out a cheque.


----------



## SACD-Man

In fact the one that wins are the "authorizers" that handle the transactions. They get a very small % on each hit, but they increase the very small %, well there goes the price. The banks and Visas/MC really are not authorizing.....


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SACD-Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhh - great question and yes it can be terminated "above" the y split. 

 Each side needs 2.

 I know that most of you know this, but I have been flooded with these questions and hopefully this will help answer a few.

 Craig_

 

Thanks for answering. I would be glad to grab a twag replacement cable when i'm financially recovered. Or are you interested in building some cheaper cables with lesser parts? i think most of us could appreciate that and i'm definitely interested in one..


----------



## mesasone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dude you must have the most "I'm done saying this, but now I'm back again to say it again" ever! Thanks for your vigilance, but I did Paypal for the convenience.

 Since we're all happily sidetracking while waiting for our Protectors, I recently read a NYTimes article about how Visa is winning the battle against Mastercard by increasing the amount of extra charged. That way, more banks prefer to issue Visas, but merchants get screwed, and they passed on screwed up prices to consumers.

 Since then I've been using Debit whenever possible. I'm glad that Ray gave us an option- and an incentive- to avoid these fees. Too bad I'm too lazy and excited to send out a cheque. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I think you will be surprised to find that debit cards incur similar fees unfortunately. I've taken to paying cash at small, locally owned business (bike shop, co-op grocer, etc). Large chains still have to eat the fee though!


----------



## SACD-Man

Roger that...


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mesasone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you will be surprised to find that debit cards incur similar fees unfortunately. I've taken to paying cash at small, locally owned business (bike shop, co-op grocer, etc). Large chains still have to eat the fee though!_

 

Dang, really? Even with typing in the debit number and all?

 Yikes! Cash it'll be then..


----------



## nycdoi

a lot of restaurants here don't charge us tax if we pay in cash~ thats like 8.735% discount?


----------



## Jalo

Well, let me see if I can put in my 2 cents here. I have no problem if Eddie wants to voice his opinions here, even if it is negative he should have the rights to do so. We are all adults and should be able to tolerate or accept different points of view from each other. However, at the same time, we have to be careful with our choice of words. I think "words like "its a disgrace or like fan club" is more like personal attack and always ends up ugly. If he were to say "I wish Ray could let us know the shipping time or that he has received my payment" is totally acceptable. Besides, Ray already indicated that he cannot respond to every pm or e-mail and he'll just goes on with whoever pay first. We all understand the predicament that he is under and know that's how he is conducting this sales before we went in. He is not alone in this niche business. Most of the hot new products come out in a similar fashion. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for a business to reserve the right to serve anyone as most of us can see such a sign at most restaurants or businesses. Don't you think if we go into any restaurant or businesses and start telling everyone at the business that the owner is a disgrace for not doing a,b,and c... and we will not be refuse of service? I am really sorry to see the misunderstanding here.


----------



## jamato8

Reading over on the MOT thread and it looks like shipping will start tomorrow, tuesday for the Protector. I look forward to impressions.

 Great news for those waiting.


----------



## jude

I received my Protector today. So that I could immediately listen to my balanced HD600 and HD650, Ray included an adapter. As of right now, the balanced HD600 and HD650 are the only headphones I have here that I can use with the Protector (in balanced mode).

 Using my MacBook Pro-->*Amarra*-->*Lavry DA11 DAC*-->*Cardas Clear XLR (female)-RCA adapter*-->*Cardas iLink mini-RCA-RCA cable*-->*Protector*-->*Sennheiser HD600* and *Sennheiser HD650* (both balanced), I'm having some difficulty believing what I'm hearing.

 At least where the HD600 and HD650 are concerned, this amp may dispel the commonly held (and generally true) notion that a portable headphone amp cannot drive these headphones like a good desktop amp. To my ears, with these headphones, that bridge has been crossed, and you're going to be reading similar comments from others a lot about this amp, as more and more people get their ears on it. Macro- and microdynamically, the Protector is desktop-sounding with the HD600/650--highly resolving, effortless, powerful, nuanced. (I've so far only listened to the Protector/HD600/HD650 combos in balanced mode--I'll try single-ended later.) 

 I listened to my JH Audio JH13 Pro and Ultimate Ears UE18 Pro with it just briefly (and single-ended only, as I have yet to order my balanced cables for those), and the initial impressions were excellent (again, just a very brief listen), and the channel balance is perfect.

 Next up: Contact *Whiplash Audio* for Protector-terminated balanced cables for my JH13 Pro and UE18 Pro. If *Moon Audio* has the plugs, I may go for an HD800 cable terminated that way to see how the Protector does with the very picky HD800.

 So far, this amp is sort of like a....a PortApache. And anyone who heard the balanced JH13 Pro/Apache system at RMAF will tell you how stunning that setup was. I'm hoping for some such magic done portably, when I get the JH and UE pieces wired up for balanced. We'll see, but this sounds promising so far. 

 I've been listening to this thing for hours--it's 4:23 a.m., I should be asleep, but I can't put it down.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Protector today. So that I could immediately listen to my balanced HD600 and HD650, Ray included an adapter. As of right now, the balanced HD600 and HD650 are the only headphones I have here that I can use with the Protector (in balanced mode).

 Using my MacBook Pro-->*Amarra*-->*Lavry DA11 DAC*-->*Cardas Clear XLR (female)-RCA adapter*-->*Cardas iLink mini-RCA-RCA cable*-->*Protector*-->*Sennheiser HD600* and *Sennheiser HD650* (both balanced), I'm having some difficulty believing what I'm hearing.

 At least where the HD600 and HD650 are concerned, this amp may dispel the commonly held (and generally true) notion that a portable headphone amp cannot drive these headphones like a good desktop amp. To my ears, with these headphones, that bridge has been crossed, and you're going to be reading similar comments from others a lot about this amp, as more and more people get their ears on it. Macro- and microdynamically, the Protector is desktop-sounding with the HD600/650--highly resolving, effortless, powerful, nuanced. (I've so far only listened to the Protector/HD600/HD650 combos in balanced mode--I'll try single-ended later.) 

 I listened to my JH Audio JH13 Pro and Ultimate Ears UE18 Pro with it just briefly (and single-ended only, as I have yet to order my balanced cables for those), and the initial impressions were excellent (again, just a very brief listen), and the channel balance is perfect.

 Next up: Contact *Whiplash Audio* for Protector-terminated balanced cables for my JH13 Pro and UE18 Pro. If *Moon Audio* has the plugs, I may go for an HD800 cable terminated that way to see how the Protector does with the very picky HD800.

 So far, this amp is sort of like a....a PortApache. And anyone who heard the balanced JH13 Pro/Apache system at RMAF will tell you how stunning that setup was. I'm hoping for some such magic done portably, when I get the JH and UE pieces wired up for balanced. We'll see, but this sounds promising so far. 

 I've been listening to this thing for hours--it's 4:23 a.m., I should be asleep, but I can't put it down._

 

Great info Jude, thanks!

 I should have my Protector by the end of the week, and earlier Tuesday Whiplash audio said I am up next in the queue for building my cables. Those include a 4-pin XLR adapter for full size phones, balanced TWag JH13Pro cable with SE adapter (to use it on other phones), and TWag LOD.

 I'm really looking forward to it. I'll be mostly using it with my Macbook and feeding either a Pico DAC only or DACport into it as source.


----------



## cooperpwc

Jude, I love the click-through full-size picture on your Flickr account. The connector looks good.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Protector today. So that I could immediately listen to my balanced HD600 and HD650, Ray included an adapter. As of right now, the balanced HD600 and HD650 are the only headphones I have here that I can use with the Protector (in balanced mode).

 Using my MacBook Pro-->*Amarra*-->*Lavry DA11 DAC*-->*Cardas Clear XLR (female)-RCA adapter*-->*Cardas iLink mini-RCA-RCA cable*-->*Protector*-->*Sennheiser HD600* and *Sennheiser HD650* (both balanced), I'm having some difficulty believing what I'm hearing.

 At least where the HD600 and HD650 are concerned, this amp may dispel the commonly held (and generally true) notion that a portable headphone amp cannot drive these headphones like a good desktop amp. To my ears, with these headphones, that bridge has been crossed, and you're going to be reading similar comments from others a lot about this amp, as more and more people get their ears on it. Macro- and microdynamically, the Protector is desktop-sounding with the HD600/650--highly resolving, effortless, powerful, nuanced. (I've so far only listened to the Protector/HD600/HD650 combos in balanced mode--I'll try single-ended later.) 

 I listened to my JH Audio JH13 Pro and Ultimate Ears UE18 Pro with it just briefly (and single-ended only, as I have yet to order my balanced cables for those), and the initial impressions were excellent (again, just a very brief listen), and the channel balance is perfect.

 Next up: Contact *Whiplash Audio* for Protector-terminated balanced cables for my JH13 Pro and UE18 Pro. If *Moon Audio* has the plugs, I may go for an HD800 cable terminated that way to see how the Protector does with the very picky HD800.

 So far, this amp is sort of like a....a PortApache. And anyone who heard the balanced JH13 Pro/Apache system at RMAF will tell you how stunning that setup was. I'm hoping for some such magic done portably, when I get the JH and UE pieces wired up for balanced. We'll see, but this sounds promising so far. 

 I've been listening to this thing for hours--it's 4:23 a.m., I should be asleep, but I can't put it down._

 

Thats so good to hear, after everyone that has both saying that the apache is the best amp available for the jh-13's, all i was hoping for was that it would be close to being a miniature apache, and it seems you've confirmed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 cant wait to get my own (and my jh-13's back from refit) i've even already got my balanced cable from whiplash


----------



## Audio-Omega

The connector is quite sturdy but I will have to be careful when plugging in so as not to potentially damaging the four pins.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio-Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The connector is quite sturdy but I will have to be careful when plugging in so as not to potentially damaging the four pins._

 

You have a guide detent that aligns the connector properly before the pins make the contact.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## Audio-Omega

Does the charger of Protector come with US style plug ?

 Can we replace the batteries ourselves ?


----------



## tjumper78

looks like some people will be receiving the protector today.
 it'd be super if anyone can tell us how it drives the big cans (hd580/600/650, k701/702, etc) in the single-ended mode.


----------



## Jarmel

Unfortunately I get mine on Friday. Should help with studying during the weekend I guess.


----------



## hvu

I should get mine tomorrow just in time for springbreak.


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Protector today. So that I could immediately listen to my balanced HD600 and HD650, Ray included an adapter._

 

It's good to be Jude!

 Edit: also, it would be nice to hear what you think about the Protector with the DAC not in play. Thanks.


----------



## nycdoi

somehow mine is taking a detour to tennessee while im located in new york....hope it will bring back some souvenirs...


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_somehow mine is taking a detour to tennessee while im located in new york....hope it will bring back some souvenirs..._

 

How do you know it is in TN? Did you get some type of shipping notification? I have not received any type notification.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djbnh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you know it is in TN? Did you get some type of shipping notification? I have not received any type notification._

 

i asked ray for my tracking # because somehow i knew something like this could come up and mess up the arrival time.


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i asked ray for my tracking # because somehow i knew something like this could come up and mess up the arrival time._

 

Thank you for the quick reply, very nice of you.


----------



## Hygienist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great info Jude, thanks!

 I should have my Protector by the end of the week, and earlier Tuesday Whiplash audio said I am up next in the queue for building my cables. Those include a 4-pin XLR adapter for full size phones, balanced TWag JH13Pro cable with SE adapter (to use it on other phones), and TWag LOD.

 I'm really looking forward to it. I'll be mostly using it with my Macbook and feeding either a Pico DAC only or DACport into it as source._

 

Nice, think you could do a quick n' dirty comparison of the balanced JH13 -> Protector (fed by HDP) vs SE JH13 -> HDP? Thanks


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hygienist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice, think you could do a quick n' dirty comparison of the balanced JH13 -> Protector (fed by HDP) vs SE JH13 -> HDP? Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Probably, once everything is properly burned in.


----------



## Jarmel

Got mine. I'll start burning it in tonight along with my whiplash cable.


----------



## jamato8

I sent back the demo model. I am going through some serious withdrawals. It isn't pleasant. :^)

 I look forward to receiving my Protector and I really look forward to more impressions from others. I think we are on a new level of listening now. I have seen small, good steps, on sound improvement with portable headphone amps, but this amp does what I knew a portable could do, bring a portable to the same sound quality as a very good home unit. What it does with the HD650's balanced is amazing. The combination of the balanced JH13's, which have brought IEM"s to a new level and the Protector is a true distinguishable advancement in high end audio.


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_somehow mine is taking a detour to tennessee while im located in new york....hope it will bring back some souvenirs..._

 


 FedEx often ships to it's central hub in Nashville, before redistributing across the country. Ive had packages go from Seattle to Nashville just to turn around and come back to me west of Portland. when a simple trip south would have seemed more logical


----------



## SoupRKnowva

So i just got my protector in the mail, took some pics during the unpacking for ya'lls since no one else had. And my photo skills are not what some of the rest of you have but oh well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 The FedEx box





 The RSA box inside





 The inside of the box, peanuts included 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Now i have never had a headphone amp before, let alone a portable, but when i slid this thing out of the pouch, i was stunned, i thought it was easily going to be twice this size!! its so freakin tiny!!!





 Another of the Protector





 Now here's the sad part, You'll notice that there is only one JH-13 attached to that TWag balanced cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thats because the other one is still in the mail on the way back from a refit...





 So the impressions ill try to put up later will only be from my ATH-A900's in single ended mode





 And here are some pics for size comparison with a iPod Classic













 I havent even plugged headphones in yet, but i just got back from the gym, so im letting it charge while i shower and then ill plug it into the A900's and see what i find


----------



## boomy3555

Got mine just a bit ago, The Clear/White color is more of a brushed alluminum to me but solid as a rock. I still need to DIY a Protector Blanced to 4 pin Mini-XLR adapter, but I will probably sneek a single ended listen after the battery charges for few hours.
 I only have Hearyourself C-3's but they will do until I save up for some Harvey's


----------



## mesasone

How long was your guys' amps held hostage in the Fedex hub in TN?


----------



## dazzer1975

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_, but this amp does what I knew a portable could do, bring a portable to the same sound quality as a very good home unit._

 


 what does this mean exactly?

 What home amps and what characteristics does the protector share with them, what does it do better what does it do worse?

 While using hd650's and other relatively hard to drive headphones that are known to scale well.

 Cheers.


----------



## djbnh

Many thanks to Ray, my Protector arrived today. Will charge overnight then do some single-ended 24/7 burn-in with a set of AKG 701s. No need for pics since a previous post had plenty. NOTE: perfect packaging!

 I'm supposed to have someone reterminating my HD650 Equinox cable with XLRs and making an adaptor to run from the Protector to female XLR connectors, we'll see what happens and in what time frame.

 Best of luck to all those who are in line for this amp. Thanks again to RSA Audio.


----------



## YtseJamer

It's without any doubt the best amp I have tried with my JH13s. (And I only have 2 hours of burn in time on the unit.)


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dazzer1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what does this mean exactly?

 What home amps and what characteristics does the protector share with them, what does it do better what does it do worse?

 While using hd650's and other relatively hard to drive headphones that are known to scale well.

 Cheers._

 

It does what my Woo 6 does and more. It does what the Lisa III does, easily, and more. My Woo 6 (been compared to several high end well respected amps in the 2 thousand dollar range and was not wanting) is very modified and excellent sounding. The Protector drives either the JH13's or HD650's with an ease normally associated with home amps with large power reserves that also power the sound stage with an openness that alludes to the recording venue. The Protector has the ease of drive coupled with a "natural" openness that does not spread the imaging but keeps it pinpoint but yet rounded, as with tubes that often do the 3D effect to a much better degree than SS. You get the feeling of seeing behind and around the performer or instrument. The stage stays wide and deep, if well recorded and even with volume, there is no collapse. The timber and tonality does sax right and piano comes across with all the melodic nature it should have yet there is the dynamic range to do a piano right.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mesasone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long was your guys' amps held hostage in the Fedex hub in TN?_

 

Mar 11, 2010 6:53 PM Arrived at FedEx location NEWARK, NJ
 Mar 10, 2010 2:34 PM Departed FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
 about 28hours~


----------



## Lexington

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now i have never had a headphone amp before, let alone a portable, but when i slid this thing out of the pouch, i was stunned, i thought it was easily going to be twice this size!! its so freakin tiny!!!_

 

 I believe my first words were "Holy s***!" when unpacking it earlier today. This is my first amplifier as well and I really had no appreciation for it's size until I saw it with my own eyes. I feel like a giant when I turn the knob or flip the switch hah hah! It is a beautiful amp.

 Unfortunately, there was no expected package from Craig today. USPS GXG 1-3 days my a**. Pathetic tracking too. I should've went with FedEx.

 Listening to the Protector SE on stock cable atm with 2 hours burn-in so far. I can't articulate as well as jamato, but the sound this amp is giving my jh13s is superb. It _really_ tightens up the bass. I switched back to my Cowon S9 unamped, and the bass was much fatter and bloatier. This was not a subtle difference. I'm anxious to hear this balanced now.


----------



## jamato8

Well I went ahead and cut the cable on my ATH-ESW10 JPN, something I thought I wouldn't do but I wanted them balanced. Now they are. :^) 

 I don't plan on ever selling them so why not. Wow, and wow. I made an adapter so any of my balanced phones can be used single ended but what a gas to have these and many others in balanced. These things articulate now. Much more dimension to the music. . 

 Great fun, this is.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I went ahead and cut the cable on my ATH-ESW10 JPN, something I thought I wouldn't do but I wanted them balanced. Now they are. :^) 

 I don't plan on ever selling them so why not. Wow, and wow. I made an adapter so any of my balanced phones can be used single ended but what a gas to have these and many others in balanced. These things articulate now. Much more dimension to the music. . 

 Great fun, this is._

 

I presume, this thing is bigger in personality then the WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We should start a new Appreciation Thread.


----------



## xuan87

i was wondering if there are any here who would be interested in a Protector-female to 3.5mm male adapter. i was thinking of making one for myself with the mundorf silver/gold wire and i realize that the more i make, the cheaper each one will be ( simple economic of scale). hence i was wondering if there will be anyone who would be willing to take some off my hand. i will only sell it at the price of the raw materials. diy is strictly my hobby and i don't feel good charging anyone for my labor.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i was wondering if there are any here who would be interested in a Protector-female to 3.5mm male adapter. i was thinking of making one for myself with the mundorf silver/gold wire and i realize that the more i make, the cheaper each one will be ( simple economic of scale). hence i was wondering if there will be anyone who would be willing to take some off my hand. i will only sell it at the price of the raw materials. diy is strictly my hobby and i don't feel good charging anyone for my labor._

 

You are gonna get swamped with requests now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered one from Whiplash that shipped today, but it would be nice to have a spare in case I re-terminate several phones and want one to go with them. So I'm in for one and maybe two depending on the cost.


----------



## xuan87

well assuming the adapter is 1/3ft long, the cost of the cable is about $2, the 3.5mm plug about $5 depending on the brand, the protector female is about $3 to $10, depending if it needs a casing or not ( like the whiplash one) and maybe another $1 for heatshrink, sleeving, and whatnot. estimate shipping at $5, the total is about $20 give or take abit. pm me if you're interested.


----------



## jamato8

I have my phones set up so I can run them balanced or with an adapter, single ended and it works great. The adapter is small, as a portable should be, but no sacrifice in sound.


----------



## xuan87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my phones set up so I can run them balanced or with an adapter, single ended and it works great. The adapter is small, as a portable should be, *but no sacrifice in sound*._

 

yea, i agree with you on that, small but no sacrifice in sound. i haven't tried the mundorf wires before, but i hope that they are decent enough to achieve that.


----------



## Jarmel

Just would like to add that the Whiplash cables are absolutely fantastic. Feel WORLDS better than the Null Audio and display a higher level of workmanship.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xuan87* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yea, i agree with you on that, small but no sacrifice in sound. i haven't tried the mundorf wires before, but i hope that they are decent enough to achieve that._

 

I am using some special silver wire at 99.99995 purity for my adapters. I love this small stuff (balanced connectors) as you get great sound but no real bulk and still truly portable but with fabulous sound.


----------



## xuan87

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using some special silver wire at *99.99995 purity* for my adapters. I love this small stuff (balanced connectors) as you get great sound but no real bulk and still truly portable but with fabulous sound._

 

woah, 6N silver wires......


----------



## tf1216

Hey guys,

 For those using JH13s with their Protector, are you using the low or mid gain setting?

 I gotta get me some balanced cables ASAP. ( :


----------



## jamato8

I tend to use medium gain for everything. I have used high gain for the HD650's when I played them loud and there was still about half of the volume control unused. The low gain also works fine for the JH13's and on this or medium I get no hiss at all.


----------



## Jarmel

I'm using the low setting.


----------



## tf1216

Thanks gents.

 I have another question if you wouldn't mind. I contacted Whiplash Audio through the website about purchasing a balanced cable. I have not received a response. Should I contact someone from Whiplash directly?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tf1216* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks gents.

 I have another question if you wouldn't mind. I contacted Whiplash Audio through the website about purchasing a balanced cable. I have not received a response. Should I contact someone from Whiplash directly?_

 

I would guess that you sent them an email? How long ago did you contact Whiplash? I know they are getting many orders so I bet they are a little backed up. I don't remember if there is a phone number. Try another email with information requested for order in the subject line.


----------



## tf1216

Thank you jamato8. Will do.


----------



## hvu

I was listening for like 8 hrs yesterday with balanced HD650 and I was very happy on low setting.


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tf1216* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys,

 For those using JH13s with their Protector, are you using the low or mid gain setting?

 I gotta get me some balanced cables ASAP. ( :_

 

Low gain with my uDAC and my iPod Touch. (Can't wait to try the amp with the Audio-GD DAC-19DSP 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## tf1216

Ooh, I want to get an Audio-GD DAC19 soon. It's next on the list.


----------



## Jarmel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was listening for like 8 hrs yesterday with balanced HD650 and I was very happy on low setting._

 

There is no way the Protector can be pushing balanced HD650s on the low setting. I tried it with my Grado RS-1s and on medium it was somewhat straining.


----------



## mesasone

Well, mine showed up about 15-20 minutes ago. Doesn't look like my cable stuffs will make it today - I don't know if USPS is still doing Saturday delivery, but it shipped Priority Mail so hopefully they will be here tomorrow if they do.

 Of course, I couldn't help but give it a quick listen. First impression: sounds pretty good with my HD580. Turn up the volume and second impression: hmmm... I hope this is just the battery being about dead. I was getting a lot of distortion all over the place. So it's charging now and we'll see how it sounds on a full battery. There's no mention of how long it takes to charge the battery, if it's "ok" to listen to the Protector while it's charging, or if it's ok to leave it on the charger all the time in the documentation that comes with it. I'm thinking about mailing Ray to find out, but I'm sure he's awfully busy at the moment.

 Will post more in the appreciation thread after it finishes charging and it gets some more head time.

 EDIT: Okay, it looks like Ray has already addressed the charging issues: 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a RED LED, light, on the charger when charging, it turne GREEN when fully charged. You can keep it on the charger no harm if you so wish. Don't turn it off if you have it connected to the charger as it speeds the burn-in process, if not in use.
 Ray Samuels_


----------



## jamato8

I have my HD650's on right now connected via single ended. If I use high gain and turn them up, the 650 do not distort and the sound is painfully loud. I prefer them balanced now but the amp still powers them fine in single ended. I am playing some Grateful Dead with plenty of bass.


----------



## nycdoi

got mine 2hours ago and spent an hour diyed a temporary balance jack. <_< time to burn in until a proper cable arrive..


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jarmel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no way the Protector can be pushing balanced HD650s on the low setting. I tried it with my Grado RS-1s and on medium it was somewhat straining._

 

I dont know how much of a voltage swing you need to meet your personal listening standards but for me I can listen to my HD650 on low or medium setting and be completely happy.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, it also depends upon the output voltage of the source to the amp but medium for the HD650's unless I want to listen very loud but then my ears ring and that is stupid on my part as these are the only ears I have and I don't want to ruin the frequency response and my hearing in general. :^) What I also like about this amp is that it doesn't make the 650's too warm, which can ruin them. So single ended and of course balanced works fine for me. I do prefer the 650's balanced to the ESW10 JPN. The 650's are just more open sounding and balanced, the 10's do take a step up but they can't match the 650's balanced. They are a nice small quality phone though and I have the semi hard case that makes them a good traveling companion.

 Edit: I haven't listened very much to the HD650's single ended on the Protector. Now I wish I hadn't, well I do but they sound excellent. I just assumed that single ended would be it and why push a portable with them. I knew with the voltage swing that balanced wouldn't, or shouldn't be an issue and it isn't but now I am hearing them single ended on this amp and I am truly surprised after extended listening. There are many options with this amp.


----------



## jc9394

Got mines around noon and tested in both SE and Balanced mode with my JH13. With SE mode, I'm not that impress, it sounds like Mustang. But Balanced mode, MAN OMG, this is amazing. I never would think this little tiny amp can do this. Now, I have to get this puppy burn in but I'm glad I got on this boat.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Just got pics of the 3.5mm -> RSA balanced female adapter that I asked a dude named FraGGleR here to build for me on the cheap, since I'm a cheapass who can't afford the TWag stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If there's any other stingy bastards out there I'm sure he could do one for you, the price was low and nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm also whipping the guy to do a 4pin XLR -> RSA balanced female adapter so I think he can do other stuff too.


----------



## AudioDwebe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have my HD650's on right now connected via single ended. If I use high gain and turn them up, the 650 do not distort and the sound is painfully loud. I prefer them balanced now but the amp still powers them fine in single ended. I am playing some Grateful Dead with plenty of bass._

 


 jamato8,

 You're balanced 650's...are they balanced using the mini connector? I reterminated an IEM last night, but was wondering if there's enough space in the connector for putting in the 650 cable.

 Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jamato8,

 You're balanced 650's...are they balanced using the mini connector? I reterminated an IEM last night, but was wondering if there's enough space in the connector for putting in the 650 cable.

 Thanks._

 

Just peal off some of the rubber from around the cable as it is a little large and use some heat shrink. It works fine.


----------



## Suprlite_7

Is it possible to reterminate the stock JH13 cable? I untwisted and counted three wires. My guess is if sharing a ground is out of the question then my frugal solution may not work.


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Suprlite_7* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to reterminate the stock JH13 cable? I untwisted and counted three wires. My guess is if sharing a ground is out of the question then my frugal solution may not work._

 

i reterminated with stock jh13 cables. cutted off above the Y split and cutted the bottom part into 2pieces and soldered them. worked perfectly =)


----------



## brotherlen

Received mine today, much smaller than expected. I'm pretty happy with that. Now I have to send my earmolds for IEMs tomorrow.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

So skylab said this little moster can run the HE5's very well, has anyone tried the AKG 701's with it in balanced mode?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I've got about 36 hours of burn-in on my Protector, and I'm using a borrowed 3-pin full-size balanced adapter to burn it in with my HD600 using a borrowed SAA Equinox cable from Seamaster (which I will return next week once my TWag 4-pin XLR adapter arrives Monday). 

 I have refrained from listening to anything but the HD600 until I have given it a couple of days of burn-in with the HD600. Before I posted comments on a fresh amp with my JH13Pro, I at least wanted to give my comments using the TWag JH13Pro cable that is on its way (shipped Thursday). I am using a DACport 24/96 USB DAC/amp as a preamp to feed the Protector, and I've been listening to some 24/96 downloads of Sara K. and Nancy Bryan on my Macbook Pro. 

 It sounds very good, even without burn-in. The amp is pretty transparent and uncolored, and just to the warm side of neutral but not dark in any way. Bass is very strong, and highs seem crisp and detailed. The mids are very present and natural, making it good for female vocals. This is not like my Predator where I needed 350 hours to like it, and 800-1000 hours to sing it's praise. It sounds good out of the box and seems to open up quickly without a lot of burn-in. It it really continues to improve over the next 150-200 hours I will be even happier. Until then I am also refraining from comparing the sound to other portable amps.

 There seems to be a lot of claims about the protector being a "desktop amp in a portable package, especially in terms of power". It certainly has more power than the DACport that is feeding it, or my D4 in 9v mode. The Protector has plenty of power for the HD600 in medium gain when driving them balanced, but I can turn it up high enough to get clipping in medium or high gain. However, those volume levels are much higher than I would be caught listening to for my pleasure. I'd guess the power levels with balanced HD600 fall above all the other portable amps that I have, but below many desktop amps like my Square Wave XL balanced desktop amp (which is down right now with bad FETs in the 12v Sigma 22 PSU, so not directly compared but going from memory). 

 After the Protector is burned in I will compare it to other portable and desktop amps, and post more on the power output. In particular, the 3MOVE and Vivid V1 have been my previous most powerful portables for the HD600, and the Nuforce HDP and Sq Wave XL (or ZDT and SAC KH1000) for the HD600 and HE-5. I'll have to compare the other portable amps single ended, but several of the desktop amps are balanced.

 Right now I can say the Protector is a very worthwhile purchase, and likely the best portable amp that I can recommend for HD600 listening, even at this early stage (having never heard the Lisa II that others recommend).


----------



## midoo1990

Sorry DP


----------



## midoo1990

Thx for the impressions Larry.after burn in can you please compare it to your woo6 with hd600?I want to know if it is in the same league.thanks.


----------



## fdhfdy

about a year ago, i asked about balanced prtable amp. people here think it's unneccessary.


----------



## itsborken

'Unnecessary' is an over-simplification of the reasons people had with wanting a portable balanced amp. Setting aside the SE/balanced concerns, an amp 1.5x larger with half the battery life wasn't all that desirable when everybody was after smaller, lighter, longer lasting back then. Miniaturization techniques and better battery design changed the equation.


----------



## gregeas

Can anyone confirm that the stock cable for Senn HD650s can be reterminated for the Protector connector? Just got the amp, but my balanced JH13 cable is MIA... Eager to try balanced mode.

 ALSO: assuming the stock cable can be balanced, how can I tell which cables are the grounds?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gregeas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone confirm that the stock cable for Senn HD650s can be reterminated for the Protector connector?_

 

Yes.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gregeas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ALSO: assuming the stock cable can be balanced, how can I tell which cables are the grounds?_

 

There are 3 colors in the HD650 stock cable, red,green and orange. The orange is ground.


----------



## gregeas

Thanks a million, Knight.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes.


 There are 3 colors in the HD650 stock cable, red,green and orange. The orange is ground._


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gregeas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone confirm that the stock cable for Senn HD650s can be reterminated for the Protector connector? Just got the amp, but my balanced JH13 cable is MIA... Eager to try balanced mode.

 ALSO: assuming the stock cable can be balanced, how can I tell which cables are the grounds?_

 


 Never ever take it for granted though. If your going to reterminate, at least get a cheap continuity tester and confirm each plug pin once you cut the ends of the wires. At leat the 650's have removable plugs on the can end which makes this process easy.


----------



## boomy3555

Even after only a few hours of burn in and I can tell the difference. I have listened with both single ended and balanced with just my Alien ears C-3's and Hamacher Schlemmer Zebrawood cans and the muddiness is all gone from the C-3's. Now I can put off the JH16's for even a while longer. NOT!. still gotta have them. As for the Zebrawoods, I haven't decided yet but the cable is so cheep that I had a hard time reterminating them and I will hold my final eval for a recable on them.
 Still Happy Happy with this purchase even if it is the highest price I've paid so far for an amp. and I will give me incentive to finish balancing the rest of my cans.

 Still preliminary but for me, I'll be staying away from silver and sticking with copper cable.


----------



## Jalo

I received my Protector yesterday. Charged it all night. Since I have not receive my balance Twag jh13 back from Craig yet, so I decide to just compare it single ended. I use all apple lossless tracks w/ Ipod 6g with a ALO sxc 18 gauge LOD and compare it to my Mustang and Protector. I have a SAA equinox cable for the HJ13 and I understand that it is a copper conductor. I know, I know it is not burn in yet , but I can't wait any longer. So I set both amps to low gain and about 2 o'clock position on the pot. I switch around a few tracks (e.g Holly Cole Trio, I can see clearly now) and a few other female vocals. The bass is crisp and punchier. The Protector did not disappoint. Like one review in the other thread that use the word "solid foundation" I find that the most unique characteristic is that each note is play with authority as compare to the Mustang. I don't know if it has something to do with the power supply, but it just feel each note is play with a lot of power. If I have not heard the Protector, the Mustang will make me very happy. But the Protector is punchier when it needs to be. It brings me closer to the music. Compare to the Mustang, it just seems like there is yet another veil is lifted. The Mustang is very dynamic and close to the music already. But the Protector is still clearer, closer, faster in getting to your heart. Notes and instruement separation is better. The ambience is still not as smooth as the Mustang, but I have not burn in at all. This is amazing given the fact that I did not burn in or even warm up the amp. I compared and played it cold from the get go. I did not use it balance. If, with my balance Twag and burn in can bring this performance another 20%, it will be the best thing that happen to portable audio. When I recieve my balance TWag and XLR adaptor to the Protector, I'll compare my HD800 between the desktop BUDA and Protector. It is going to be woooow. For now, I can't get over the fact that the Protector has more body and more authority on each note. Very fun.


----------



## boomy3555

It's interesting that you used the word "Veil" as that is exactly what I feel has been lifted from even my Budget C-3's. The C-3's ( Poor Mans' JH's) have always had bit of muddiness to the upper mids. Almost a bit of sibilance. GONE with the Protector in both single ended and balanced mode.


----------



## Jarmel

Would like to add that this sounds way better than the Mustang when it's balanced. I haven't tried it in SE though. Bass is better, detail is sharper, and the soundstage is wider. It's just punchier overall.


----------



## gregeas

EDIT: After two attempts and one burn, I finally got focused enough to get the wires soldered to those tiny connector pins... I was comically inept, but now I'm listening to Radiohead on brand-new balanced HD 650s and a Protector while I wait for a balanced TWAG cable to arrive for my JH13s. 

 I'm using the db Labs Tranquility USB DAC as my source... So far, so good. I'm planning for many days of burn-in, as basically everything is this system is new. But the sound is sweet even on song two.


----------



## djbnh

Still running the Isotek System Enhancer burn-in disc 24/7, with the AKG 701s. I'm hoping that patience has it's rewards; that's over 50 hours so far on the amp.


----------



## 9282

ff


----------



## gregeas

Any idea when the charging light should turn green? My has been plugged in for about 24 hours and is still red. I charged the Protector for a few hours before plugging in headphones, but since then I've been playing music and charging at the same time. Not sure if this slows down the charging process. 

 Music is playing fine...


----------



## YtseJamer

Yes when the amp is turned on, the light on the charger is always red. (Even if the battery if fully charged)

 When I turn off the amp, the light becomes green.


----------



## gregeas

Hm. I get no light at all when the amp is switched off.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gregeas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm. I get no light at all when the amp is switched off._

 

The little LED light is not on the Protector amp, it is on the charger it self.
 Cheers.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## Lexington

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes when the amp is turned on, the light on the charger is always red. (Even if the battery if fully charged)

 When I turn off the amp, the light becomes green._

 

Hm, mine stays green after a full charge with my amp switched on.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So, I got a little surprise in the mail Saturday, but my son read the label out loud to me wrong and I didn't open it till today, thinking it was something else.







 So, now I'm burning in the amp with the TWag cable and JH13Pro, instead of with a balanced HD600, and I can ship Ray his loaner balanced adapter by the end of the week (I needed it to test a loaner Equinox HD600 cable that uses dual three pin XLR on my Protector, since my Sq Wave XL PSU is being repaired and my other amps use 4-pin XLR). 

 The JH13Pro do sound a little better balanced than single ended, but the Protector still did a very good job with the stock JH13Pro cable. I have about 72 hours on the Protector, and about 1 hour on the TWag cable now. I've had cable like this that have needed 80-100 hours to settle down (APS V3 and ALO SXC for example), so I want to put 3 days of music thru the TWag now.

 The LACK of digital volume control is NOT appearing to be a problem at all, as I have NO channel imbalance at extremely low volumes with my Protector. Ray uses the SR-71A volume control, and modifies it to fit in the Protector. This is a very good volume control, and takes 15 minutes to modify each one by hand.

 So far I do not regret that I sold my Predator for the Protector. I have many DAC's to feed the Protector that sound great with it, including DACport, Pico DAC, D4, D10, and uDAC and more.


----------



## YtseJamer

Do not forget that the TWag cable need 300 hours of burn in.


----------



## IPodPJ

Larry, make sure you try your Protector with your best DAC if you really want to hear what it's capable of. Then you can see why it could be used as a desktop amp.


----------



## nycdoi

im only getting 24hours of continuous playback from balanced port of the protector in 1full charge....


----------



## Ducker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im only getting 24hours of continuous playback from balanced port of the protector in 1full charge...._

 

With what headphones?
 Could make a difference, correct?


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im only getting 24hours of continuous playback from balanced port of the protector in 1full charge...._

 

Only 24 hrs ? Do You hear yourself ? Is that supposed to be bad?. What other portable gives you over 24 hrs of continuous power even in single ended mode.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

In single ended, using my ATH-A900's mine managed around 35-40, though thats a estimate, it still did pretty good by my standards


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *boomy3555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only 24 hrs ? Do You hear yourself ? Is that supposed to be bad?. What other portable gives you over 24 hrs of continuous power even in single ended mode._

 

the old sony mp3 player i used for burn in lasted 2full charges of the protector.
 i'm not really complaining but i do recall reading somewhere saying the protector is able to last for 6days with 8hours playback each day. or something like that.. and i was using custom'd se530 for burn in too


----------



## Jalo

Hmm, let me guess, Ray is staying up late right now working on the drawing board for a DAC/amp project just like the Predator but this time with a balance DAC feeding balance signal to the Protector, right?


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lexington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hm, mine stays green after a full charge with my amp switched on._

 

ditto


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, make sure you try your Protector with your best DAC if you really want to hear what it's capable of. Then you can see why it could be used as a desktop amp._

 

Well, the DACs I'm using in my bedroom with the Macbook are good enough for desktop amps (uDAC, D4, D10, Pico DAC only, DACport, Nuforce HDP, and Apogee mini-DAC). I'm not putting the Protector in my main rig with the PWD, because I'm using the ZDT and WES with that DAC, and I'm going to use the Protector like a portable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For the portable rig, I'm pairing it with my iMod with piccolino LOD or portable Vcap dock, which comes close to the Nuforce and Apogee as a source. The 16gb 5G Nano will also get some use with the Protector, but my ultra-portable rig will be using the 5G Nano with Pico Slim stuffed into my pants pocket.


----------



## IPodPJ

Yes, but don't you think you should TRY it to see what the Protector is really capable of? It sounds much better out of a high-end DAC.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, let me guess, Ray is staying up late right now working on the drawing board for a DAC/amp project just like the Predator but this time with a balance DAC feeding balance signal to the Protector, right?_

 

What would be the point? The Protector does not have balanced inputs.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the point? The Protector does not have balanced inputs._

 

and im pretty sure it has only 2 gain stages....no need for a balanced dac.


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, let me guess, Ray is staying up late right now working on the drawing board for a DAC/amp project just like the Predator but this time with a balance DAC feeding balance signal to the Protector, right?_

 

That would be nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder what a genius he is


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, make sure you try your Protector with your best DAC if you really want to hear what it's capable of. Then you can see why it could be used as a desktop amp._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the DACs I'm using in my bedroom with the Macbook are good enough for desktop amps (uDAC, D4, D10, Pico DAC only, DACport, Nuforce HDP, and Apogee mini-DAC). I'm not putting the Protector in my main rig with the PWD, because I'm using the ZDT and WES with that DAC, and I'm going to use the Protector like a portable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the portable rig, I'm pairing it with my iMod with piccolino LOD or portable Vcap dock, which comes close to the Nuforce and Apogee as a source. The 16gb 5G Nano will also get some use with the Protector, but my ultra-portable rig will be using the 5G Nano with Pico Slim stuffed into my pants pocket._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, but don't you think you should TRY it to see what the Protector is really capable of? It sounds much better out of a high-end DAC._

 

Great, I get it, I get it. But I explained my DAC choices for pairing with my Protector which replaced the Predator. I already like the Protector combined with any of those portable DACs more than the Predator that I sold to pay for it. If someone doesn't like the Protector (not me), even if they have a nicer DAC than I used you can still blame it on the phones, cables, or choice or music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I'll just try cutting my headphone cable shorter first, because several of the DAC's I mentioned sound fairly high-end (Pico DAC, 24/96 DACport, 24/96 HDP and Apogee mini-DAC). Or, I could pair the Protector up with my old Digital Link III instead of selling it, because the cubic volume of the DLIII is about 50 times greater than the Pico and so it should sound much better.

 The point I'm trying to make is that *as silly as the above two comments sound, demanding that I use the Protector with a $3000 full size home DAC like my Perfectwave to get the best performance is a little overkill*, don't you think? It's a PORTABLE amp, and I'm using it mostly with VERY good portable or small desktop DAC's that can fit next to a computer on a desk. Sure, I can hook it up to my PWD, but it's not going to replace my ZDT or WES amps, and with my disability I'm not going to do any more work than I have to in order to enjoy this.

 Even if you don't agree that these DAC's come close to high-end, the Apogee mini-DAC with Sigma 11 PSU is a well respected DAC that compares well to other DACs in the $1000-$1500 range. The HDP, unbelievably, comes very close and uses the digital circuit from a respected $1500 DAC. Still, you keep telling me to try the Protector with a "high-end" DAC, which means you must have heard them all and feel that the ones I mentioned aren't good enough. What is high-end enough for you? 

 My feeling is that the Protector amp is designed to be used with exactly the type of portable sources I have mentioned are being used. It may yet become my favorite portable amp - with the power to drive Sennheisers and the finesse to drive my IEM. So I am going to get to know it best with the sources that will be used with it the majority of the time. If this fills the job as a balanced desktop amp, then great, but I'll still know if that's the case with the DACs I have listed already. Much of the time I'll be carrying around my 5G Nano with Pico Slim in a pocket, and using the Protector with my Macbook and a portable USB DAC. That does qualify as a desktop amp I suppose, but I'm not plopping down in front of my main rig and using the Protector there. I want to use the Protector anywhere in my house where I don't have my main rig set up.


----------



## dmbphan041

this or the pico slim to pair with an iphone 3gs?


----------



## jc9394

Too early to tell since Pico Slim is not shipping yet.


----------



## midoo1990

Where are the impressions and comparisons guys?we are still waiting here...


----------



## jelt2359

Just got my Protector. It's about half the size I thought it'd be! Amazing. I can truly understand why others said it looks like what they thought the Shadow'd look like.


----------



## jc9394

Did anyone notice it sounds funny when you press play after you power on the amp? It only last half a seconds.


----------



## jelt2359

BTW, I got S/N #008. So Ray does honour serial number requests. One happy camper here!


----------



## boomy3555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the point? The Protector does not have balanced inputs._

 


 DACs are by nature balanced so if you put one in the Protector, then you would have a balanced input then simply bypass the single ended stage?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dmbphan041* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this or the pico slim to pair with an iphone 3gs?_

 

It really depends on (1) the form factor you need and (2) what you will drive with the amp (power requirement). I have the demo Pico Slim here right now in front of me. You can see it in the photo I posted yesterday. The slim is the same length as Protector, about 1/4 - 1/3" narrower, and about half as thick as the Protector. So, if you want to slip the two stacked together in your pants pocket the Slim is going to fit much better. The Slim is the same width and thickness as the tiny iBasso T3, being only about 1/2" longer than the T3 (or 2/3" including volume knob). Even in it's leather protective case the Slim is a little smaller/thinner than the Protector.

 I am mostly using the DACport 24/96 USB DAC as my source, with the volume knob at about 80% of max, feeding it into my portable amps via a jumbo cryo silver x clone (copper/silver) mini-mini. The Slim with non-balanced JH13Pro or ES3X is every bit as good as the 72 hour Protector or P-51 Mustang with the same NON-balanced custom IEM. (I only just got my balanced TWag cable and adapter that I have to burn-in).

 The Slim cannot drive the HD600 with the same authority as the larger balanced Protector, but then the HD600 are not really a portable headphone either. The Slim can actually drive the HD600 to decent levels and sound quality (RSA balanced adapter/Equinox cable plus TWag SE adapter), and you can turn the volume to max without clipping. Although the Slim with HD600 wont get loud enough to feel the bass hitting hard like with the Protector, the volume is louder than my normal listening volumes. The Slim is a definite upgrade over the iPhone or iPod driving the HD600 unamplified, and I get close to an extra 3 dB or so out of my iMod with the Slim vs the headphone out, along with a lot of extra detail and soundstage. I have not had a chance to compare the Slim's power output using HD600 to the P-51, which also cannot drive the HD600 as authoritatively as the Protector but does a decent job in a pinch.

 I will not do any more detailed comparisons than that yet - it's too early and I haven't had enough time with either amp. Yes, there are small differences in sound signature that I will delve into once the Protector is burned-in, but I'm not ready to do a full on review until the Protector has the recommended number of hours. I have written notes on the differences, but they may change or go away with more burn-in. 

 I can say that Ray and Justin have outdone themselves this time. Overall I do prefer the Slim to the original Pico, and I like it as much as my P-51 Mustang, while having their small differences in sound signatures. The P-51 has the signature RSA sound, and the Slim has the signature Headamp sound. Both are a noticeable step up from the tiny T3 portable, with only an extra 1/2" in length, and they belong in the top tier of portable amps. In my case I will be more likely to carry the Slim with my 5G Nano and IEM in my pants pocket, and use the Protector in my laptop rig with a nice DAC and balanced headphones. But that is just me - I had a purpose in mind for each of these amps when I bought them, and they will suit them perfectly.


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks for the impressions Larry.so until now,does the protector fit in the same class as home amps in driving the hd600 like others say?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *midoo1990* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the impressions Larry.so until now,does the protector fit in the same class as home amps in driving the hd600 like others say?_

 

It's just to early to say. At this point in the burn-in process I would say no, but it definitely bridges the gap between portable and desktop amps with HD600 better than most other portable amps I have heard, and is closer to desktop performance. 

 My ALO Amphora has this "kind" of performance but not quite as much power, but it is away on loan to another head-fi member who decided to by an Amphora after comparing it to his GS-1 and thinking it was the closest to a portable GS-1 that he could find. So, I have not compared that, or the WA6 and ZDT to the Protector.


----------



## midoo1990

Thanks,I appreciate it.looking forward to your comparison with WA6.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the point? The Protector does not have balanced inputs._

 

If you put a dac and amp inside the same enclosure. The Dac can then output true balance signal into the amp which will eliminate the phase spliter and therefore you have a true balance throughput.


----------



## edwardsean

Hi, I'm still going through the burn in process. I find myself going back and forth between the Protector/ balanced and the SE ALO Rx with the JH13s. Each seems to have things the other doesn't. Has anyone else compared the two?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm liking the Protector more and more with time. It's sound with my HD600 is really opening up by 100 hours now, and it's actually passing up my P-51 with at least 1000 hours. The P-51 has always been good, but the Protector is now more transparent and spacious with my HD600. I'm going from Protector with TWag 4-pin adapter, or from P-51 with APS v3 1/8" 4-pin adapter, and feeding both amps into a 4-pin balanced APS V3 cable. 

 I'm not BS'ing here. I almost forgot how much some of these amps improve as you put hours on them.


----------



## hvu

That sounds great I only got like 30hrs on mine, I can wait until 200hrs


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you put a dac and amp inside the same enclosure. The Dac can then output true balance signal into the amp which will eliminate the phase spliter and therefore you have a true balance throughput._

 

Yes but you suggested Ray might be working on a separate balanced DAC, to which I said it would be pointless as it wouldn't work with the Protector.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IPodPJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes but you suggested Ray might be working on a separate balanced DAC, to which I said it would be pointless as it wouldn't work with the Protector._

 

Um... Read his original post. He was unambiguously hoping that Ray would release a version of the Protector with a built-in DAC. The error Was yours in misreading his very clear English.
 Cheers!


----------



## jelt2359

Tested the Protector single-ended with my TWag JH13s (sending in for recabling tomorrow). I can unambiguously say that this is the best I've ever heard any amp. Better than my D10, TTVJ Hybrid, iQube. It might be that I just prefer the RSA house sound more, but that was another reason I got this amp- to try out the RSA sound. 

 To my ears, the difference between this and my other amps is like the difference between my iPod and my Hifiman. The bass is very punchy and tight, and the mids and highs manage to be oh so sweet and refined. The combination of tight + smooth is unbelievably seductive. I might truly be at the end of my audio journey. I'm now perfectly satisfied. 

 (PS, because I travel a lot, I will never consider a home amp).


----------



## YtseJamer

Wait until your hear the amp in balanced mode with the TWag and the JH13s.


----------



## jelt2359

Do I need to burn in twice, for balanced and SE? I'm now burning in just the SE portion... Will that be sufficient if I later listen to it balanced?


----------



## thread

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I'm still going through the burn in process. I find myself going back and forth between the Protector/ balanced and the SE ALO Rx with the JH13s. Each seems to have things the other doesn't. Has anyone else compared the two?_

 

I'm also very interested to hear Rx/Protector comparisons! Thanks, guys.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pfillion* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait until your hear the amp in balanced mode with the TWag and the JH13s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

X2, this amp is very source dependent. My iMod have a faulty drive and I have been using my Nano as source last few days. But boy after I replaced my iMod to CF and play the same songs again, the improvement is not subtle.


----------



## jamato8

That is one thing I started noticing with this amp and mentioned earlier, what you have upstream from it, is very noticeable. The better you feed it, the better the sound. Not all amps can do this as the amp itself places limitations on what you end up hearing. Now you can upgrade your source and the sound will truly follow. 

 Since receiving a new Protector, having sent back the demo model, I am going through the burn-in process as well. The changes to my ear are not subtle and help me to validate the changes and reaffirm the openness this amp obtains as the time passes.


----------



## jc9394

I'm gonna try using my gamma2 tomorrow and see if I can tell the difference between iMod and gamma2.


----------



## AudioDwebe

I've got a question to you all about the burn-in process: Does it matter how you do it? Is there any difference in the ultimate sound of the amp if it's burned in for 5 hours a day for 20 to 40 days versus an amp that gets to the same amount of hours in a straight, non-stop manner?

 Thanks.


----------



## jc9394

you can do what ever type you want but power off the amp for 30-60 minutes every 10 hours will help the caps to burn in faster.

 I just use it everyday at work for 6-8 hours, so no special burn in process for me.


----------



## AudioDwebe

Thanks.

 I'm puttin' on about 4-5 hours a day at work, too. I guess I'll continue in this way.

 Thanks again.


----------



## nycdoi

90hours straight no rest~


----------



## jamato8

I just leave mine running balanced all the time but breaks do help the caps to form better.


----------



## Fantoon

John, did you put the Protector against your fully modified fi.Q?

 It's going to be a mess choosing 1-2 portable amps this year with so many options.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fantoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John, did you put the Protector against your fully modified fi.Q?

 It's going to be a mess choosing 1-2 portable amps this year with so many options._

 

I have had the fi.Q off for a while. The other day I turned it on and it sounded flat. After 24 hours better. It is the Black Gates. Audio Note UK, when I used to correspond with the owner on a regular basis, often stated that BG's need constant charge to stay truly formed and that is correct. So what I am getting at is that I need to leave the fi.Q on all the time but haven't. I will charge it up and leave it on and do some more comparing. I do think that balanced to single ended, when the balanced as with the Protector, which is done right, is going to be hard to beat.


----------



## jc9394

how many hours you guys getting per charge running balanced mode with iem?


----------



## Fantoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had the fi.Q off for a while. The other day I turned it on and it sounded flat. After 24 hours better. It is the Black Gates. Audio Note UK, when I used to correspond with the owner on a regular basis, often stated that BG's need constant charge to stay truly formed and that is correct. So what I am getting at is that I need to leave the fi.Q on all the time but haven't. I will charge it up and leave it on and do some more comparing. I do think that balanced to single ended, when the balanced as with the Protector, which is done right, is going to be hard to beat._

 

Looking forward for further impressions


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Yeah, with mine i can really tell the difference between using my iPod classic as the source, and using my DAC19Mk3, as the source, and thats with my A900's, since my right jh13 isnt back yet.


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just leave mine running balanced all the time but breaks do help the caps to form better._

 

Wait so I do need to burn it in balanced if I want to listen to it balanced later? (reterminated TWag not here yet..)


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, with mine i can really tell the difference between using my iPod classic as the source, and using my DAC19Mk3, as the source, and thats with my A900's, since my right jh13 isnt back yet._

 

How long have you been waiting? I just sent mine in for a minor fit issue too.. Figured since I didn't have my reterminated TWag cable yet I'll fix everything at once..


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long have you been waiting? I just sent mine in for a minor fit issue too.. Figured since I didn't have my reterminated TWag cable yet I'll fix everything at once.._

 

This is my third refit, and the second time that tehy have mailed it to the wrong address. When i got them the first time back in december i was at my parents house, but then for the refits, the 1st and 3rd they mailed it back there instead of to me in Ohio, though the first time i called and they got it re routed, and then the second time i reminded them, but the third time i didnt think it was necessary, but apparently it was, because i got the ship notification to oregon instead of ohio. And freakin UPS, even though it shows up as a address change online, they dont actually re route it till it gets to the first destination, so it made it all the way to newberg OR, and then turned around to come to ohio. So i mailed mine in aroudn the early 20's of february on this one...grrr, oh well they are almost back


----------



## jelt2359

Yikes. I just mailed mine today. Hope they don't take that long to get back to me..


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yikes. I just mailed mine today. Hope they don't take that long to get back to me.._

 

its only because of the shipping error on their part, otherwise they would have been here the 10th


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

RE: BURN-IN

 Ray previously said that burning it in balanced will go faster because you are exercising all 4 buffers, but you can still burn it in single ended if you have to, it just takes longer.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

haha i keep thinking that im burning it in SE, and that only the positive side buffers are getting burnt in, so when i get my jh-13's that they will sound funny since the negative buffers wont have been used


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha i keep thinking that im burning it in SE, and that only the positive side buffers are getting burnt in, so when i get my jh-13's that they will sound funny since the negative buffers wont have been used 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wouldn't it actually be burning in 1 of 2 positive/negative buffers?


----------



## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how many hours you guys getting per charge running balanced mode with iem?_

 

roughly 24hours running balance mode with se530 custom..


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wouldn't it actually be burning in 1 of 2 positive/negative buffers?_

 

well there are 4 output buffers in total, 1 each for L+, L-, R+, and R-, so i imagine that im burning in L+ and R+, so then R- and L- are left unloaded.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well there are 4 output buffers in total, 1 each for L+, L-, R+, and R-, so i imagine that im burning in L+ and R+, so then R- and L- are left unloaded._

 

Your imagination is wrong.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your imagination is wrong._

 

haha, so how does it work then? im really just curious.


----------



## mesasone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your imagination is wrong._

 

Care to explain?


----------



## jamato8

Well I have been running my ESW10 JPN in balanced for a few days now. At first they sounded ok, and they were already broken in but in single ended. Can't see that it makes a difference but possibly it does as they sounded a little edgy at first but still better than single ended but now they sound much better than at first. The bass is more dramatic but not over the top and the resolution has gone up to a very high level but not etched or unnatural. I hadn't planned on balancing the 10's since they are limited edition but I don't plan on getting rid of them and can't see this would decrease their value anyway. What I can say is that they are sounding great and with my adapter is is simple to use them single ended but now, why? :^)


----------



## AudioDwebe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have been running my ESW10 JPN in balanced for a few days now. At first they sounded ok, and they were already broken in but in single ended. Can't see that it makes a difference but possibly it does as they sounded a little edgy at first but still better than single ended but now they sound much better than at first. The bass is more dramatic but not over the top and the resolution has gone up to a very high level but not etched or unnatural. I hadn't planned on balancing the 10's since they are limited edition but I don't plan on getting rid of them and can't see this would decrease their value anyway. What I can say is that they are sounding great and with my adapter is is simple to use them single ended but now, why? :^)_

 

My guess is that the changes you're hearing has more to do with the amp burning in and opening up than anything changing with the cans.


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## grawk

My guess is it has more to do with confirmation bias than anything else. Unless you're suggesting that the little plastic connector and aluminum pins are burning in.


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## Voltron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have been running my ESW10 JPN in balanced for a few days now. At first they sounded ok, and they were already broken in but in single ended. Can't see that it makes a difference but possibly it does as they sounded a little edgy at first but still better than single ended but now they sound much better than at first. The bass is more dramatic but not over the top and the resolution has gone up to a very high level but not etched or unnatural. I hadn't planned on balancing the 10's since they are limited edition but I don't plan on getting rid of them and can't see this would decrease their value anyway. What I can say is that they are sounding great and with my adapter is is simple to use them single ended but now, why? :^)_

 

This really takes an already overblown concept and takes it ludicrous levels. The same wires and drivers are being used in your headphones whether the signal is coming from a balanced or s/e amp, so how could there possibly be a difference between "breaking in single ended" and "breaking in balanced"? As grawk says, the only thing that is different is the connector and I hope that is not what you think is "burning in."


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## AudioDwebe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My guess is it has more to do with confirmation bias than anything else. Unless you're suggesting that the little plastic connector and aluminum pins are burning in._

 


 It's possible that confirmation bias comes into play, but I asked about the amp burn-in, as I believe his amp is still well under the 100-200 hour mark recommended by the manufacturer. 

 If anyone can hear plastic burning in, or those tiny connectors, they have very Golden Ears. Or they're plain nuts.


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## n_maher

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or they're plain nuts._


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's possible that confirmation bias comes into play, but I asked about the amp burn-in, as I believe his amp is still well under the 100-200 hour mark recommended by the manufacturer. 

 If anyone can hear plastic burning in, or those tiny connectors, they have very Golden Ears. Or they're plain nuts._

 

Yeah, I am a little over 100 hours so it could very well be a combination of things or the amp still forming. Whatever it is, I am enjoying the results and that is what matters. 

 Relax and enjoy the music and life. It is all too short my friends so make it last while you can.


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## Duggeh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Relax and enjoy the music and life. It is all too short my friends so make it last while you can._

 

Why do you always post some hippy comment like that after people call you out on spurious nonsense? As a tangential-line, arguement defusing tool it can only work so many times.


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## jamato8

It is what I believe. You believe what you do and I will what I do. So serious about such a very positive thing, music. It's all good. :^)

 edit: Besides there were good things about hippies though I admit I was sadly in Vietnam at the time, twice, in that sad and horrible war but that is off topic. 

 Enjoying Leonard Cohen with the JH13's and soon the 16's and a few different headphones.


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## HeadphoneAddict

The comments he made sound just like what my Protector is doing with burn-in. I'd say it has nothing to do with the ESW10 other than the synergy improving as the amp burns in.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The comments he made sound just like what my Protector is doing with burn-in. I'd say it has nothing to do with the ESW10 other than the synergy improving as the amp burns in._

 

Ah, ok, I hadn't heard a Protector from the beginning but it makes sense. I just wasn't sure since I also just changed the 10's over to balanced and there is some new wire involved.


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## SoupRKnowva

So im wondering if anyone else is getting this with their jh-13's too, on low gain, anything past about 2:30 on the volume produces hiss, on medium anything past 12 produces hiss, and on high anything past about 9:30 does. This is all with no source plugged in as well. now in most cases those volumes would blow my ears out if i started music, i was jsut curious


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## jamato8

I get a little hiss around 2:30 or 3 on medium gain. But as you state, a person would lose their hearing at that volume so it is of little consequence.


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## OPTiK

For the most part, the protector has almost no hiss with my x10's which is nice. I have about 50 hours on it right now and the bass is finally starting to open up. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like when I hit 100-200 hours


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## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So im wondering if anyone else is getting this with their jh-13's too, on low gain, anything past about 2:30 on the volume produces hiss, on medium anything past 12 produces hiss, and on high anything past about 9:30 does. This is all with no source plugged in as well. now in most cases those volumes would blow my ears out if i started music, i was jsut curious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I didn't notice hiss when I tried the amp, but I did notice buzzing/interference in the left channel--the kind of noise you get when a blackberry or cell phone is nearby. There was a ThinkPad, presumably with WiFi, about 4 feet away.


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## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha, so how does it work then? im really just curious._

 

Each channel needs + and -. Not +,+ or -,-.

 Regarding the burn-in, I'm not sure if I believe it but if you really want to burn-in without using your phones, you can just make a dummy load, using a pair of resistors.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Each channel needs + and -. Not +,+ or -,-.

 Regarding the burn-in, I'm not sure if I believe it but if you really want to burn-in without using your phones, you can just make a dummy load, using a pair of resistors._

 

i understand that each channel needs + and -, i dont think you read my post correctly, i was refering to single ended operation, that the -'s for each channel wouldnt be getting used.


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## The Monkey

unsubscribe.


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## jelt2359

I didn't realise that's how you subscribe to a thread.. that will save me the trouble of coming back again and again! Thanks!


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## jelt2359

subscribe.


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## HeadphoneAddict

My Protector doesn't buzz from my iPhone right next to it, using 3G or Wifi. I haven't tried it without my Mophie Juice Pack Air hard-case, which could be blocking some of the RFI.


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## SoupRKnowva

Mine didnt buzz either, with my iPhone and wirelessly connected laptop right next to it.


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## raikoken

subscribe.


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## mesasone

You guys don't have to post to subscribe to threads... if you open up the "Thread Tools" menu just above the first post on the page, you can subscribe from there.


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## jamato8

When I get resettled (moving) I want to balance my HF2. Any idea on how they might sound balanced?


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## Lexington

Listening now via: Cowon S9->Protector->TWag->JH13s

 I just received my balanced TWag today and plugged them straight away into the Protector. The soundstage varies between not much better than SE to several inches out of my head. I guess it depends on the recording and how it was mastered. I've only listened to it for a few hours now, but there have been several jaw dropping moments. I'm actually hearing sounds outside my head, which I didn't believe was possible with an iem. Not quite the 12" someone said, maybe half that, but the amp still needs another 60 hours or so 'til 200.
 There's also more space between the instruments. And the bass on some tracks is sickening. Man i'm in audio bliss!!


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## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lexington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listening now via: Cowon S9->Protector->TWag->JH13s

 I just received my balanced TWag today and plugged them straight away into the Protector. The soundstage varies between not much better than SE to several inches out of my head. I guess it depends on the recording and how it was mastered. I've only listened to it for a few hours now, but there have been several jaw dropping moments. I'm actually hearing sounds outside my head, which I didn't believe was possible with an iem. Not quite the 12" someone said, maybe half that, but the amp still needs another 60 hours or so 'til 200.
 There's also more space between the instruments. And the bass on some tracks is sickening. Man i'm in audio bliss!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ugh, these types of reviews make me want to order the twag balanced right now before my 16's arrive..


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## shigzeo

Well, got to enjoy the *Predator* today with balanced HD201's and almost a balanced IE8, but missed out. Very good amp - that is for sure. Bright and fun and powerful, but that connector is trouble: Japanese but looks to be discontinued here. Still not hard to re-pin to a more useful system.

 Edit: bolded text above should be *Protector*, not Predator.


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## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, got to enjoy the *Predator* today with balanced HD201's and almost a balanced IE8, but missed out. Very good amp - that is for sure. Bright and fun and powerful, but that connector is trouble: Japanese but looks to be discontinued here. Still not hard to re-pin to a more useful system._

 

Did you mean Protector?


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## shigzeo

Spelling error: yes, I meant Protector! Yes, the portable balanced amp from RSA - thank you for fixing my error. Finally heard it today. The man who owns it owns about 15 customs and every portable amp I've ever heard and want to hear. You think some at HF are junkies? Wow, this man probably hasn't seen money in years!


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## jelt2359

Larry's comment here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f149/t...0/index10.html

 In particular, this "If I use the TWag cable + single ended adapter with Pico Slim Demo Amp or RSA P-51, I can enjoy it just as much as with the Protector single ended. But when I remove the SE adapter and go balanced, then the soundstage opens up and also becomes more transparent (I have about 160 hours on the Protector)."

 has made me decided to just stick with my Protector and forgo the Slim. I read this as the Protector, Mustang and Slim being on a fairly plane when SE, but when the Protector is used in balanced mode things are taken to another level.


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## grawk

you should use your own ears, and not the ears of someone else on the internet.


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## jc9394

I have not heard the Pico slim yet but I do agree Protector SE is the same as Mustang.


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## SACD-Man

Money is overrated!!!


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## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SACD-Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Money is overrated!!!



_

 

YUP, and keep sending to Craig for the TWag cables...


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## SACD-Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_YUP, and keep sending to Craig for the TWag cables..._

 

Not a bad idea!

 Go Syracuse!!
 For you basketball fans...


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## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you should use your own ears, and not the ears of someone else on the internet._

 

With limited resources, and with the excellence that is head-fi that provides me with good information, I choose to trust 'someone else on the internet', especially one who has had the opportunity to compare both.

 Besides, perhaps even you have doled out advice in the past... Take just one of your posts: "The big problem with the denon d5000s is the tone, so balancing won't fix their problems."

 Wait, what? The big problem is tone, according to whose ears? Yours? OK, since I shouldn't trust your ears, so is just reading your post is wasting my time?? 

 Of course not! This is head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We're here exactly to read about others' opinions! Given all my monetary and informational constraints, I'll listen to those whom opinion I trust, just as I assume you will.


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## Jalo

Well, I just received in the mail a JH13 TWag balance Protector recable, a female balance to 3.5mm adaptor, and a TWag XLR to male protector adaptor. After hearing the effect of fullsize headphones from the Protector from a few observations (Skylab, Jamato etc), I have been wanting to try my HD800 on the Protector, so without any delay I immediately go to compare the followings:

 1. Itune-->Apple Lossless-->optical toslink connection-->Headroom UDAC-->SAA balance flat cable to-->Headroom BUDA/DPS on medium gain-->Balance SAA Voice recable --> HD800.

 2. Ipod Classic 6 gen--Apple Lossles-->ALO SXC 18g-->Protector on medium and high gain--> Whiplash TWag XLR to Protector adaptor --> Balance SAA Voice recable --> HD800.

 My protector has not been burn in at all. It has about five hours SE and one hour balance burn in time. I love vocal so I use a few tracks to compare the two settings. Specifically, I used the Irish Tenors (Danny Boy, Grace), Holly Cole Trio (I can see clearly now, Tennesee Waltz). I find specially with tennor and soprano voice, it is very easy to compare how an amp support a note being held in high intensity and duration.

 In the track "I can see clearly now" the initial double bass sounded clear, full, crisp and punchy on both systems. I am very happy with the Protector.

 In all four tracks when a high note is played, the UDAC/BUDA/DPS trio clearly has rounder and fuller performance. For the Protector system, it sounded amazingly good on medium volume (medium gain at 3 o'clock, or 12 o'clock at high gain). However, there are several instances that I do notice a slight cracking when I turn up to high volume (90 to 100 percent on both medium and high gain settings). 

 The Protector is amazingly quiet given the fact that I am listening to it at 90 percent volume now.

 In term of quickness, punchiness, and crispiness, the Protector is about 90 to 95 percent of the BUDA/UDAC/DPS trio which is rather surprising to me.

 In terms of sound presentation, both systems seem to have a similar distance to me. I find myself on the stage with the source. 
 The Protector seems to present the music a little closer to me than the desktop ssytem. Channel balance is pretty good. 

 I know this is just a very initial impression, but I don't think the overall picture or the final result is going to alter too much. I think after I have 200-300 hours on the Protector, I'll expect it to be a little smoother but as a protable system, I really think the protector is doing a very good job. 

 I think in the middle range, the Protector comes very close to the desktop system, in the low range and in the treble, the difference is a little bit more clear in that the notes are much more fuller and smoother for the desktop system.

 Really the major difference between the two systems is that the desktop system sounded a little cleaner, smoother, fuller, and rounder. But the Protector is not far behind. If I have to put a number down, I will say the Protector is about 85 to 90 percent of the desktop trio and will be close to 90% when it is fully burn in.

 Given the fact that the UDAC/BUDA/DPS trio, may not be the best of the desktop systems, it is nevertheless in the top group of desktop performers. I think for those people who wants to know whether the Protector can substitute for a destop system. I think it can compete with many medium level desktop systems. And for a portable system, it may be the only way one can listen a high level cans like the HD800 on the road. The bottom line is that the Protector is an enjoyable system and a rather capable performer at home or on the road.

 My next interest is to compare the JH13 to the HD800 on the Protector.

 I am also interested to hear from some of you who have received your Protector and your impression.


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that connector is trouble: Japanese but looks to be discontinued here. Still not hard to re-pin to a more useful system._

 

Ray has a lifetime guarantee on this amp, so I'm not sure there is an issue. YMMV.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry's comment here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f149/t...0/index10.html

 In particular, this "If I use the TWag cable + single ended adapter with Pico Slim Demo Amp or RSA P-51, I can enjoy it just as much as with the Protector single ended. But when I remove the SE adapter and go balanced, then the soundstage opens up and also becomes more transparent (I have about 160 hours on the Protector)."

 Has made me decided to just stick with my Protector and forgo the Slim. I read this as the Protector, Mustang and Slim being on a fairly plane when SE, but when the Protector is used in balanced mode things are taken to another level._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you should use your own ears, and not the ears of someone else on the internet._

 

X3 - use your own ears, or wait for a more in depth review.

 The Pico Slim is a fantastic portable for the size. I posted elsewhere that it's only 1/2" longer than my miniature iBasso T3, well above it in sound quality, and half as thick as the Protector. For a while I had stopped taking a portable amp with me for an iPod because I wanted something small enough to fit in my pants pocket when velcro'd or stacked with a Nano, iPhone or iMod. I ended up only looking at portable amps with USB built-in because the thicker amps available served me better being used with my Macbook Pro.

 The thin Fiio E5 and iBasso T4 were not an improvement over the iPod, except in warming up the sound signature and giving more power - but not really hi-fi sounding as far as detail and soundstage. The T3 improved on that in terms of detail and transparency, and it could sound better than the iPhone 3GS headphone out, so I started carrying an amp again. 

 But I kept wishing for something that size that could match the P-51 (which is fatter like Protector). The Pico Slim is all that and more, based on the demo loaner unit I have here. It's a perfect match with my ES3X which can sound slightly aggressive paired with the P-51, and it gives a boost in the bass to them and my JH13Pro.

 I'll be using Pico Slim as a portable with an iPod every where I go now, and Protector will be more likely to stay with my Macbook Pro using Pico DAC or DACport for source (at home or traveling). I see them filling two different needs for me. I am using the Protector A LOT with my HD600 and Macbook, rediscovering how much I still like them - I've missed using balanced HD600 since the PSU on my Sq Wave XL went bad, and then when my Sigma 22 PSU had a different issue that was causing problems.

 Back to the amps in question: The Protector is slightly "harder or aggressive" sounding in the upper mids and lower treble like the P-51 Mustang, but also improved. The Pico Slim is slightly smoother in those upper registers and more refined, but has a upper bass hump instead which seems to resonate a tiny bit in my ears with the JH13pro. So, with the JH13Pro the Slim is a little more neutral in the upper mids and treble and the Protector is more neutral in the upper bass and lower mids. Switching to the Westone ES3X, which are what I used to audition the Slim at CanJam 09, I fell in love all over again.


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X3 - use your own ears, or wait for a more in depth review.

 The Pico Slim is a fantastic portable for the size. I posted elsewhere that it's only 1/2" longer than my miniature iBasso T3, well above it in sound quality, and half as thick as the Protector. For a while I had stopped taking a portable amp with me for an iPod because I wanted something small enough to fit in my pants pocket when velcro'd or stacked with a Nano, iPhone or iMod. I ended up only looking at portable amps with USB built-in because the thicker amps available served me better being used with my Macbook Pro.

 The thin Fiio E5 and iBasso T4 were not an improvement over the iPod, except in warming up the sound signature and giving more power - but not really hi-fi sounding as far as detail and soundstage. The T3 improved on that in terms of detail and transparency, and it could sound better than the iPhone 3GS headphone out, so I started carrying an amp again. 

 But I kept wishing for something that size that could match the P-51 (which is fatter like Protector). The Pico Slim is all that and more, based on the demo loaner unit I have here. It's a perfect match with my ES3X which can sound slightly aggressive paired with the P-51, and it gives a boost in the bass to them and my JH13Pro.

 I'll be using Pico Slim as a portable with an iPod every where I go now, and Protector will be more likely to stay with my Macbook Pro using Pico DAC or DACport for source (at home or traveling). I see them filling two different needs for me. I am using the Protector A LOT with my HD600 and Macbook, rediscovering how much I still like them - I've missed using balanced HD600 since the PSU on my Sq Wave XL went bad, and then when my Sigma 22 PSU had a different issue that was causing problems.

 Back to the amps in question: The Protector is slightly "harder or aggressive" sounding in the upper mids and lower treble like the P-51 Mustang, but also improved. The Pico Slim is slightly smoother in those upper registers and more refined, but has a upper bass hump instead which seems to resonate a tiny bit in my ears with the JH13pro. So, with the JH13Pro the Slim is a little more neutral in the upper mids and treble and the Protector is more neutral in the upper bass and lower mids. Switching to the Westone ES3X, which are what I used to audition the Slim at CanJam 09, I fell in love all over again. _

 

Thanks for the comments! I have no need for an ultraportable solution, but if I did I would probably be all over the Slim. That aside, I'll wait for a full review, just for enjoyment's sakes.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

thanks for the comments larry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 im loving my protector, and i really have no need for an ultrapotable, but for some reason im getting the slim anyways haha cant wait to compare the two myself. I guess if the slims small enough i could using it working out...now thats an idea, hifi at the gym


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## xuan87

what do you think?


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## jc9394

Nice, wanna sell me one?


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## jamato8

Looks effective. Nice job.


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## SoupRKnowva

indeed, that looks pretty great, good job


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## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_now thats an idea, hifi at the gym 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was actually thinking of getting my x10's redone into customs for that reason alone. The protector (se) has brought these back to life for me. I'm getting the slim too to compare, which should be fun. I'm getting an iphone in june so I may just use the slim as a ultraportable when i need to travel and dont want to deal with a dac/amp combo or can't bring my laptop.

 I do consider the protector portable (as it was intended) so if the slim doesn't sound good to me, i'll just rock out with the protector


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was actually thinking of getting my x10's redone into customs for that reason alone. The protector (se) has brought these back to life for me. I'm getting the slim too to compare, which should be fun. I'm getting an iphone in june so I may just use the slim as a ultraportable when i need to travel and dont want to deal with a dac/amp combo or can't bring my laptop.

 I do consider the protector portable (as it was intended) so if the slim doesn't sound good to me, i'll just rock out with the protector 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i agree the protectors portable, i just dont think i could use it at the gym, or while im runing, whereas with the slim, i could get an ipod classic armband, and put a nano and the slim in there without too much trouble. I just wear the 13's though, no need to get another set of headphones


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Blutarsky, Sherwood and I did a mini-meet Saturday to listen to our custom IEM on the Pico Slim and Protector. Blutarsky owns the ES3X and Sherwood has JH13Pro, while I own both. Remember, the ES3X are a more forward and revealing IEM, and JH13Pro are a more laid back IEM with a little bump in the bass We all tried each amp with stock cable and with a 125 hour TWag cable. We used a single ended TWag adapter with both amps, and also tried them balanced with Protector.

 Blutarsky thought the ES3X had a little better synergy with the Pico Slim because the mids and treble are smoother and not too forward while the bass is very strong (paraphrasing). Sherwood seemed to feel the Protector had a little better synergy with the JH13Pro because it filled in the mids and didn't bump the bass too much like the Pico Slim. I agreed with both of them, and it's interesting that they didn't read my post above where those were the same things I noticed when I compared them. 

 Interestingly, my bass heavy UE11Pro are not excessively bassy with Slim or Protector, as the amps seem to improve bass control so that it doesn't sound sloppy. Mind you, I can listen to any of these amps with any of my IEM and enjoy them; but many of us will have different preferences for which amp we grab first depending on their synergy with the IEM we own.


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## jamato8

So was the impression the same with the Protector in single ended and balanced?


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## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blutarsky, Sherwood and I did a mini-meet Saturday to listen to our custom IEM on the Pico Slim and Protector. Blutarsky owns the ES3X and Sherwood has JH13Pro, while I own both. Remember, the ES3X are a more forward and revealing IEM, and JH13Pro are a more laid back IEM with a little bump in the bass We all tried each amp with stock cable and with a 125 hour TWag cable. We used a single ended TWag adapter with both amps, and also tried them balanced with Protector.

 Blutarsky thought the ES3X had a little better synergy with the Pico Slim because the mids and treble are smoother and not too forward while the bass is very strong (paraphrasing). Sherwood seemed to feel the Protector had a little better synergy with the JH13Pro because it filled in the mids and didn't bump the bass too much like the Pico Slim. I agreed with both of them, and it's interesting that they didn't read my post above where those were the same things I noticed when I compared them. 

 Interestingly, my bass heavy UE11Pro are not excessively bassy with Slim or Protector, as the amps seem to improve bass control so that it doesn't sound sloppy. Mind you, I can listen to any of these amps with any of my IEM and enjoy them; but many of us will have different preferences for which amp we grab first depending on their synergy with the IEM we own._

 

Thanks for the update HPA, looks like the protector might have better synergy with the 16's too since it improves mids an doesnt bump the bass too much. Either way it'll be fun to compare both the slim/protector.


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## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the update HPA, looks like the protector might have better synergy with the 16's too since it improves mids an doesnt bump the bass too much. Either way it'll be fun to compare both the slim/protector._

 

im with you there, cant wait for my slim to get here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 though im worried if i like it more ill be sending my TWag back for another re termination...hopefully that doesnt color my opinion


----------



## davidhunternyc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jelt2359* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tested the Protector single-ended with my TWag JH13s (sending in for recabling tomorrow). I can unambiguously say that this is the best I've ever heard any amp. Better than my D10, TTVJ Hybrid, iQube. It might be that I just prefer the RSA house sound more, but that was another reason I got this amp- to try out the RSA sound. 

 To my ears, the difference between this and my other amps is like the difference between my iPod and my Hifiman. The bass is very punchy and tight, and the mids and highs manage to be oh so sweet and refined. The combination of tight + smooth is unbelievably seductive. I might truly be at the end of my audio journey. I'm now perfectly satisfied. 

 (PS, because I travel a lot, I will never consider a home amp)._

 

How does the Protector/iPod combo stack up against the HiFiMan HM-801? Hmm, at the end of your audio journey? Yeah, right... ; )


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## gilency

How much is the Protector? Price is not in the RSA site


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## hvu

$475 + shipping


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## nycdoi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hvu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_$475 + shipping_

 

u forgot about the 3% paypal fee


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## ericcis

normally how long do they take to get shipped your protector after purchased?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X3 - use your own ears, or wait for a more in depth review.

 The Pico Slim is a fantastic portable for the size. I posted elsewhere that it's only 1/2" longer than my miniature iBasso T3, well above it in sound quality, and half as thick as the Protector. For a while I had stopped taking a portable amp with me for an iPod because I wanted something small enough to fit in my pants pocket when velcro'd or stacked with a Nano, iPhone or iMod. I ended up only looking at portable amps with USB built-in because the thicker amps available served me better being used with my Macbook Pro.

 The thin Fiio E5 and iBasso T4 were not an improvement over the iPod, except in warming up the sound signature and giving more power - but not really hi-fi sounding as far as detail and soundstage. The T3 improved on that in terms of detail and transparency, and it could sound better than the iPhone 3GS headphone out, so I started carrying an amp again. 

 But I kept wishing for something that size that could match the P-51 (which is fatter like Protector). The Pico Slim is all that and more, based on the demo loaner unit I have here. It's a perfect match with my ES3X which can sound slightly aggressive paired with the P-51, and it gives a boost in the bass to them and my JH13Pro.

 I'll be using Pico Slim as a portable with an iPod every where I go now, and Protector will be more likely to stay with my Macbook Pro using Pico DAC or DACport for source (at home or traveling). I see them filling two different needs for me. I am using the Protector A LOT with my HD600 and Macbook, rediscovering how much I still like them - I've missed using balanced HD600 since the PSU on my Sq Wave XL went bad, and then when my Sigma 22 PSU had a different issue that was causing problems.

 Back to the amps in question: The Protector is slightly "harder or aggressive" sounding in the upper mids and lower treble like the P-51 Mustang, but also improved. The Pico Slim is slightly smoother in those upper registers and more refined, but has a upper bass hump instead which seems to resonate a tiny bit in my ears with the JH13pro. So, with the JH13Pro the Slim is a little more neutral in the upper mids and treble and the Protector is more neutral in the upper bass and lower mids. Switching to the Westone ES3X, which are what I used to audition the Slim at CanJam 09, I fell in love all over again. _

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Blutarsky, Sherwood and I did a mini-meet Saturday to listen to our custom IEM on the Pico Slim and Protector. Blutarsky owns the ES3X and Sherwood has JH13Pro, while I own both. Remember, the ES3X are a more forward and revealing IEM, and JH13Pro are a more laid back IEM with a little bump in the bass We all tried each amp with stock cable and with a 125 hour TWag cable. We used a single ended TWag adapter with both amps, and also tried them balanced with Protector.

 Blutarsky thought the ES3X had a little better synergy with the Pico Slim because the mids and treble are smoother and not too forward while the bass is very strong (paraphrasing). Sherwood seemed to feel the Protector had a little better synergy with the JH13Pro because it filled in the mids and didn't bump the bass too much like the Pico Slim. I agreed with both of them, and it's interesting that they didn't read my post above where those were the same things I noticed when I compared them. 

 Interestingly, my bass heavy UE11Pro are not excessively bassy with Slim or Protector, as the amps seem to improve bass control so that it doesn't sound sloppy. Mind you, I can listen to any of these amps with any of my IEM and enjoy them; but many of us will have different preferences for which amp we grab first depending on their synergy with the IEM we own._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So was the impression the same with the Protector in single ended and balanced?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm including my previous comments for continuity and so I can link in my public profile to this one post that will have all my impressions in one spot, without making a new thread:

 SE vs balanced didn't affect the synergy with the various IEM. I did feel the balanced mode was a little wider and deeper soundstage than SE mode, while Blutarsky agreed he felt the differences were not huge. I don't recall exactly what Sherwood said in that regard. 

 With HD600 the Protector balanced mode is noticeably better than single ended, and the synergy with HD600 is fantastic. The Slim struggled more to drive the HD600, but it did respectably well with the HD800 - the frequency response of the HD800 on the Slim was a little nicer than Protector with W-A cable, but not nearly as powerful as the Protector. With HD800 in balanced mode the Protector was slightly bright with my Warren Audio cable but powerful enough - I haven't had time to try the HD800 with stock cable and 4-pin XLR with balanced Protector yet._

 

I needed to re-write my most recent comments above, but wanted to save the original post above to show that I am not changing anything or back-peddling, but mearly clarifying what I meant to say:

 The impressions were not the same using balanced vs single ended, and we listening to the Protector both ways. Balanced was better. But, SE vs balanced didn't affect the synergy with the various IEM. To me, the synergy is how well the frequency response characteristics of the amp and IEM mate with each other. The ES3X sound best on an amp that is a little more laid back in the mids as they have a bump or plateau in the 2K - 8K range and roll off some after that; and the JH13Pro sound best with an amp that is a little more energetic in the mids, as these IEM are a little less forward in the 1K - 5K range than the ES3X (fortunately the 6K peak is short and not very audible). I've always called the ES3X an HD800 in an IEM with it's more prominent and crisp mids, while I've said the JH13Pro are more like an O2 Mk1 in an IEM, with the bass a little more more prominent than it's mids.

 However, I did feel the Protector's balanced mode gave all the IEM a little wider and deeper soundstage than SE mode; and while Blutarsky agreed with that, he felt the differences were not as huge as I thought they were. I don't recall exactly what Sherwood said in that regard. It's generally accepted that IEM have more headstage and less soundstage than full size headphones, because the pinna of the ear is not involved in imaging and so HRTF are out the window. I think that it's much easier to hear the benefits of using balanced mode with full size phones than with IEM; but the fact that the soundstage opens up and becomes wider, deeper and more transparent at all when switching from single ended to balanced with an IEM is more significant than I may have made it out to be. It shows that the amp's channel separation and micro-detail is improved in balanced mode; so that cues involved in air, ambience and space are improved, despite using IEM that only present the sound deeply in the ear canal.

 With HD600 the Protector balanced mode is noticeably better than single ended, and the synergy with HD600 is fantastic. The Slim struggled more to drive the HD600 in terms of power, but Justin has made it clear that it is designed primarily with IEM in mind. The Slim did respectably well with the HD800 in terms of synergy, where the frequency response of the HD800 with Warren Audio cable on the Slim was a little nicer than Protector, but it was not nearly as powerful as the Protector. The Slim was mostly good for quiet to medium volume levels, where its frequency response matches the HD800/WA cable in a pleasant and enjoyable way at low to medium volumes. I would still take the HD800 balanced with Protector over single ended off the Slim, because of the improved soundstage, imaging and power. 

 It needs to be said that in my Warren-Aduio (AKA Fidelity-Audio) HD800 cable review I noted that the aftermarket cable increased the detail and treble levels of the HD800. This was easy to tune a full size tube amp to match it, but a solid state amp's state of tune is fixed and you can only tune it with the source and cables. I've always maintained that like to use a warm DAC and tubes with my HD800. Even with as much as I have gushed about my Nuforce HDP with HD600 and HE-5, it doesn't perform as well with my HD800 as my WA6 or ZDT (nor does my Amphora). So it's no surprise that with HD800/WA cable in balanced mode that the Protector was slightly bright - I haven't had time to try the HD800 with stock cable and 4-pin XLR with balanced Protector yet, but this should sound less bright. 

 Last night I did try the warmer sounding uDAC as source to the Protector/HD800/WA cable, and this was a better mach, just by changing my source. In another review I've noted that the uDAC is a better DAC via RCA outputs than it is a headphone amp; and I found that the uDAC RCA out was a nice match for the eXStatA electrostatic amp and SR-Lambda, HE-60 or Jade. Now I can add the Protector/HD800/WA cable to the list of amps that do the uDAC justice. I've been using the Protector with different portable sources like DACport, Pico DAC, and iBasso D4 DAC, until last night when I added the uDAC. At this point, I do plan to try the Protector with a desktop DAC like my Apogee mini-DAC, Nuforce HDP, PS Audio Digital Link III and PS Audio Perfectwave DAC. I'd like to see how well the Protector scales up with IEM and full size phones with a desktop source. With HD800/WA cable I suspect the DLIII and PWD will be the best match, but we'll see.

 I know I will get more questions about Protector vs the Pico Slim here, but I wont be able to try the Slim further with these sources because the input jack broke and I have to send it back to Justin today. In the 4-5 months that it's been sent around the country as a demo amp it's probably seen a lifetime of plug insertions and removals, and it may have been accidentally abused as well. Some plugs really grab and hang onto the jack's contact springs, and my ALO jumbo cryo silver x iMod LOD may have been the culprit since I can barely plug it in and remove it from the Protector as well. I don't think this will be an issue for people who buy one, but I'm sorry I wont be able to provide more comparisons.


----------



## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ericcis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_normally how long do they take to get shipped your protector after purchased?_

 

There's currently about 200 Protectors made for the first batch and I'd guess at least a few of that batch are left, which are available for immediate shipping, after which it'd take probably 3 days to arrive. After the first 200 are completely gone though, I think he'll take a bit of time to get more out.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

and for a plug, ill be bringing mine to our Dayton OH meet, and ray is letting me borrow his 2 x 3 pin xlr to protector adaptor for the meet, in case anyone was in the area and wanted to try it


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ericcis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_normally how long do they take to get shipped your protector after purchased?_

 

I ordered one Thursday and it shipped same day. FedEx estimated arrival is tomorrow


----------



## jelt2359

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidhunternyc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the Protector/iPod combo stack up against the HiFiMan HM-801? Hmm, at the end of your audio journey? Yeah, right... ; )_

 

I haven't gotten the new GAME IEM amp yet, and for now my HM-801 sometimes is a bit bass-shy of what I want it to be, and volume control range could be better. It is a very refined sound, however.

 I haven't tried my iMod->Protector yet, and won't use my iPod anymore (why would I, with my iMod?) so I'm probably not a good source of info on this front.

 Using HM801 + Protector makes it perfect, but I know that's not your question. When I am bringing my equipment around in a bag, HM801+ Protector is my first choice. For ultraportable uses only, HM801 is perfect. Simple, no ICs, great SQ.

 Well, this is the end of my equipment journey. I'm gonna focus my efforts on finding good music next. Onward to music-fi!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I updated my post from 10PM last night, clarifying some points I made. I realized that I completely skimmed over jamato8's questions, and left some points un-clarified.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I updated my post from 10PM last night, clarifying some points I made. I realized that I completely skimmed over jamato8's questions, and left some points un-clarified._

 

Wow, thanks for the update. Not only is it a good read but you conveyed very well what you are hearing in a musical tangible manner.


----------



## ericcis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered one Thursday and it shipped same day. FedEx estimated arrival is tomorrow_

 

thats great~
 i have purchased on last Sat by paypal but i dont receive any mails from RSA till now~ i think they are extreme busy now


----------



## warp08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is what I believe. You believe what you do and I will what I do. So serious about such a very positive thing, music. It's all good. :^)

 edit: Besides there were good things about hippies though I admit I was sadly in Vietnam at the time, twice, in that sad and horrible war but that is off topic. 

 Enjoying Leonard Cohen with the JH13's and soon the 16's and a few different headphones._

 

John, I just wanted to let you know that I've been following your reviews with great interest even though I've only recently joined the forum. As you can see from my signature, I've invested quite a lot recently in audio tech and my JH16s should arrive by the end of the week according to Jamie Harvey. I'm busy breaking in the Predator/Shadow with my Whiplash Twag cable (currently hooked up to a TF10) until the 16s arrive.

 I would be very interested in hearing your impressions what would going balanced would add to the overall experience between the Predator->Twag->JH16 vs. a Protector->Balanced Twag->JH16 configuration.

 Evan replacing the stock cable on the TF10s connected to the Shadow produced a jaw-dropping 1.5-hour "moment" for me...can't even imagine topping that further. Then again, I've been there before...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks in advance!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and for a plug, ill be bringing mine to our Dayton OH meet, and ray is letting me borrow his 2 x 3 pin xlr to protector adaptor for the meet, in case anyone was in the area and wanted to try it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Having Ray's other 2 x 3-pin XLR was a great help in letting me start my balanced amp burn-in a few days before I got my Whiplash Audio balanced 4-pin adapter. And Seamaster was kind enough to loan me his 2 x 3-pin Equinox HD600 cable, since all my balanced phones have a 4-pin XLR cable and can't be used with Ray's adapter.

 I just wanted to publicly thank them for the loans, or otherwise my impressions would have been delayed further. I've sent back the Equinox cable, and will be sending the balanced adapter back today or tomorrow, unless Ray calls me and asks me to send it to another head-fi user who wants to do a review or a meet and doesn't have a balanced adapter.

 I will probably wait until I have 300 hours on both the Protector and the cables before I post more impressions. At that point I would like to call burn-in complete, based on comments by Ray and Craig (although some have asked me to do 500 hours). I think this morning I hit about 225 hours on the amp, and 145 hours on the cables, and I am running the music through them non-stop right now, with a couple of hours break on the amp occasionally. I am burning in the SE adapter and 4-pin XLR adapter with my Apogee mini-DAC and CD player, and the amp with balanced JH13Pro with my Macbook (except when I take it with me and it's getting a break).


----------



## YtseJamer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Last night I did try the warmer sounding uDAC as source to the Protector/HD800/WA cable, and this was a better mach, just by changing my source. In another review I've noted that the uDAC is a better DAC via RCA outputs than it is a headphone amp; and I found that the uDAC RCA out was a nice match for the eXStatA electrostatic amp and SR-Lambda, HE-60 or Jade. Now I can add the Protector/HD800/WA cable to the list of amps that do the uDAC justice._

 

I agree with you Larry, the Protector and the uDAC is also a very good computer setup with the JH13s.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *warp08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John, I just wanted to let you know that I've been following your reviews with great interest even though I've only recently joined the forum. As you can see from my signature, I've invested quite a lot recently in audio tech and my JH16s should arrive by the end of the week according to Jamie Harvey. I'm busy breaking in the Predator/Shadow with my Whiplash Twag cable (currently hooked up to a TF10) until the 16s arrive.

 I would be very interested in hearing your impressions what would going balanced would add to the overall experience between the Predator->Twag->JH16 vs. a Protector->Balanced Twag->JH16 configuration.

 Evan replacing the stock cable on the TF10s connected to the Shadow produced a jaw-dropping 1.5-hour "moment" for me...can't even imagine topping that further. Then again, I've been there before...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks in advance!_

 

I am glad you enjoy the information. Too many stresses in life. Music can be and should be a great joy "we" can all share in. 

 I do look forward to comparing the 16 balanced and unbalanced but I got to tell you that in my opinion, balanced is beautiful.


----------



## Jalo

I recently started to have an itch for the Edition 8 as a highend closed hp. Has anyone tried to pair teh Edition 8 wit hthe Protector yet? and can you share some impression? Especially how the Ed8 compare to JH13 or HD800 on the Protector. Thanks.


----------



## jamato8

I have heard the Ed. 8 balanced but not on the Protector. I wasn't too impressed as they sounded a bit bright and artificial now if that would stand true with the Protector I can not say but I have read that the Ultrasone don't always do so well balanced. I guess I could balance my Ed. 9 and give some feedback on that. I realize they aren't the same but it would be worth a try.


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't notice hiss when I tried the amp, but I did notice buzzing/interference in the left channel--the kind of noise you get when a blackberry or cell phone is nearby. There was a ThinkPad, presumably with WiFi, about 4 feet away._

 

I noticed this today actually, when I pulled the 3.5mm jack out of the back it would go away, and when I plugged it in it would come back (left channel only). I tried an unshielded mini mini and it was better surprisingly (compared to my bluejean 3.5mm to rca). It looks like it was my coworkers iphone 3gs that was streaming audio on edge. I dont hear anything now and my laptop is on wifi next to it. If I moved the protector around i could find a location where there was no noise though.

 EDIT: Might of been the bluetooth that was enabled actually..


----------



## neosoul

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_looks too small :| I prefer portable amps to be same size as the player it is being used with, then it is easy to hold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is why I sold my tomahawk and am now looking at one of the other amp makers offerings that will more closely match my current daps. Although I'm sure the protector is a nice amp even though I haven't heard it.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently started to have an itch for the Edition 8 as a highend closed hp. Has anyone tried to pair teh Edition 8 wit hthe Protector yet? and can you share some impression? Especially how the Ed8 compare to JH13 or HD800 on the Protector. Thanks._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have heard the Ed. 8 balanced but not on the Protector. I wasn't too impressed as they sounded a bit bright and artificial now if that would stand true with the Protector I can not say but I have read that the Ultrasone don't always do so well balanced. I guess I could balance my Ed. 9 and give some feedback on that. I realize they aren't the same but it would be worth a try._

 

My Ed8 are balanced and work great from my RudiStor RPX-100 home amp, not bright or artificial at all. I will not be able to test them balanced from the Protector as I don't have nor intend to get the required adaptor. I will be getting the JH13 and have already gotten the correct Protector terminated TWag cable for them. With luck both the Protector and JH13 should arrive today.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Ed8 are balanced and work great from my RudiStor RPX-100 home amp, not bright or artificial at all. I will not be able to test them balanced from the Protector as I don't have nor intend to get the required adaptor. I will be getting the JH13 and have already gotten the correct Protector terminated TWag cable for them. With luck both the Protector and JH13 should arrive today._

 

That is good to know. I am glad someone with a balanced pair saw my comment. I wonder why the ones I was listening to sounded the way they did? I may go ahead then and balance my Ed. 9.


----------



## shigzeo

I've heard the ED8 from the Protector and it was good. I love the bright signature. I've used about 4 balanced portable amps and it so far is my favourite, but of course, it is the only production one which is ready for market.


----------



## jaquous

There is also a balanced portable amplifier in Japan.
oort-cloud.lab: ƒ|[ƒ^ƒuƒ‹ƒoƒ‰ƒ“ƒXƒAƒ“ƒv‚»‚Ì‚Q


----------



## Lil' Knight

^ That's not a balanced amp.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, it is a balanced amp. I have heard it. I used it with the balanced Ed. 8. It was ok but not up to the sound of the Protector.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Really? How does it work?


----------



## jamato8

It takes a single ended input and then the connector you see on the left is the balanced output. It uses 4 AAA batteries. The sound was a bit warm and while fairly good, the amp could use some further refinement.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Oh, ok, thanks for info. What connector it uses for the output?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, ok, thanks for info. What connector it uses for the output?_

 

It is made by HRS, a 6 pin connector.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Ed8 are balanced and work great from my RudiStor RPX-100 home amp, not bright or artificial at all. I will not be able to test them balanced from the Protector as I don't have nor intend to get the required adaptor. I will be getting the JH13 and have already gotten the correct Protector terminated TWag cable for them. With luck both the Protector and JH13 should arrive today._

 

Thanks for the feedback. I do know taht you have a pair of ed8. Can you let me know how it works in SE w/ the Protector?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is made by HRS, a 6 pin connector._

 

First time I heard of that connector.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the feedback. I do know taht you have a pair of ed8. Can you let me know how it works in SE w/ the Protector?_

 

Will do once it arrives (which wasn't today after all, neither did the JH13) and has had some burn in


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

You guys were talking about another balanced portable amp and I thought I would chime in that RWAudio is working on a balanced portable amp, using a 4-pin TRS 1/8" plug. RW may consider using the same plug as Protector if that means adhering to something that will become a standard in the future, so people would not have to re-terminate with too many kinds of plugs. 

 If it sounds as good as the RWAudio AMP1 it will make many people happy, although the AMP1 is not on the level of the Protector. The upcoming balanced portable is based on the AMP1 and should cost a good deal less money too (guessing half as much). Still, the Protector is a noticeable step up in sound quality over the AMP1, even with the AMP1 opamp upgrade in the AMP1 and running off it's 16.8v battery pack.


----------



## boomy3555

Maybe I'm just hyper sensitive, but I feel subconcious of the right angled "Iris" connector and It's even more limiting of cable size than my old standby 4 pin Mini XLR's. Perhaps a 3.5 4 contact TRRS will be a better future option. Regardless of the chioce made, there will still be some reterminations to be made. Iris, 3.5 TRRS, or Mini XLR. I've had the best luck with my Mini-XLR's as far as cable size, but anything bigger than a Canare Star Quad still requires the body of the plug to be Dremeled out a bit.


----------



## indexkisara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is made by HRS, a 6 pin connector._

 

HRS HR10A


----------



## atsukita

Fortunately, I had chance to try this Hirose connector and compare to Kobiconn one.
 Hirose's connector is really nice, Small, High quality, Good stiffness, Precise and Easy.
 (Secure feeling with Latch function)
 Especially this Hirose type connector is easy to buy cable connected Jack, 
 easy to make conversion cable for other type of connector.

 I prefer to use this HR10A connector for balanced amp.


----------



## misterCF2

I also recommend the HR10A series connector of HIROSE. 
 Think that the thing that is 6pin is a condition of a true balance connector. 

 Moreover, it is a thing that the accuracy of the connector and the material are very good. 
 I'm changing the cable for edition9 and HD25-1 to HR10A.


----------



## takoyaki

I have both balanced amps.
Attachment 27794

 The protector is a sound powerful brightly, but a mid is slightly unnatural. Albireo is slightly soft, but mid　is superior in nature.

 BTW, I made conversion cables with Hirose connector.
Attachment 27795 Attachment 27796

 I use Ultrasone edition8 well outside,
 but can't use HD800 outside
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
Attachment 27798Attachment 27797


----------



## shigzeo

That was one of the ones I've heard, but in December and with a pair of recabled ED8. 

 The connector is very good: it latches with 6 pins, is very sturdy and in production, but only in Japan. The problem is that it is pretty expensive. It retails for about 15$ for both the mail and female parts. It is the best portable balanced connection system I've seen and should have been what Ray used especially as the one he uses is from Japan anyway, but is no longer in production.

 I think iBasso too, have been lobbied to use this instead of dual mini-TRS. Who knows what will happen.

 What won't be good is a fractured market... that is rubbish.

 Takoyaki: welcome - you are the craziest headphone person I've ever seen. HF: this man has like 12 customs, all the top headphones and amps... He is crazy and a good bit more a real audio geek than I've ever seen. Thanks for showing the nice pictures.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shigzeo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was one of the ones I've heard, but in December and with a pair of recabled ED8. 

 The connector is very good: it latches with 6 pins, is very sturdy and in production, but only in Japan. The problem is that it is pretty expensive. It retails for about 15$ for both the mail and female parts. It is the best portable balanced connection system I've seen and should have been what Ray used especially as the one he uses is from Japan anyway, but is no longer in production.

 I think iBasso too, have been lobbied to use this instead of dual mini-TRS. Who knows what will happen.

 What won't be good is a fractured market... that is rubbish.

 Takoyaki: welcome - you are the craziest headphone person I've ever seen. HF: this man has like 12 customs, all the top headphones and amps... He is crazy and a good bit more a real audio geek than I've ever seen. Thanks for showing the nice pictures._

 


 Hi my friend...
 I have talked to mouser electronics and to the person who does the special orders for purchasing big quantities, they have informed me that the connector is NOT discontinued, it is in production BUT is not a stocking item. You have to put an order for big amount & they will make it for you.
 My first order was for 2000 units which arrived faster as I paid air shipping but now I have an order for 3500 units & they have no problem making them for me.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## takoyaki

Hi Ray,

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have done a long search for a reliable connector that could be used with out the pain of loose contacts & hefty price & with smallest possible size.
 The Kobiconn Used in the Protector is very reliable. It can withstand the abuse & the shake with out any problems associated with the 3.5mm connectors. It is small, sturdy, priced very low, $2.00, made in Japan for expensive Cameras.
 This connector delivers while others will suffer from all kind of problems.
 Ray Samuels_

 

Is this connector made in Japan?
 I looked for the shop which sold it in Akihabara, but was not found.

 It is worry whether this connector is available continuously.


----------



## Ray Samuels

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takoyaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Ray,



 Is this connector made in Japan?
 I looked for the shop which sold it in Akihabara, but was not found.

 It is worry whether this connector is available continuously.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Please read my previous e-mail, I am stocking on the connectors so I can ship them to any one who want to make a cable or sell cables for the Protector.
 Accourding to my info from mouser they are made by Kobiconn & in Japan.
 Cheers.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## Ray Samuels

The nice feature about the Kobiconn connector is that it needs no wires to be soldered to, then soldered to the PC board. As the Kobiconn connector is a PC mountable. This way it is very easy to remove the face plate & pull the PC brd out as one piece. The other connector, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, you have to pull the face plate with the PC board & might cause to have cut wires during the repair or for what ever reason. Also when you connect the headphones to the amp the connector stands out like a soar thumb beyond the size of the amp.
 The Kobiconn is very close to the face plate & does not add any more length to the amp. All these possibilities I have been though them when I was looking for a good connector for the Protector. The one that stood out of the crowd from all the other connectors with perfect fit, solid construction, price & the pc brd foot print.
 All these features do make the Kobiconn connector, to my long search, the best I could do & find.
 Ray Samuels


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The nice feature about the Kobiconn connector is that it needs no wires to be soldered to, then soldered to the PC board. As the Kobiconn connector is a PC mountable. This way it is very easy to remove the face plate & pull the PC brd out as one piece. The other connector, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, you have to pull the face plate with the PC board & might cause to have cut wires during the repair or for what ever reason. Also when you connect the headphones to the amp the connector stands out like a soar thumb beyond the size of the amp.
 The Kobiconn is very close to the face plate & does not add any more length to the amp. All these possibilities I have been though them when I was looking for a good connector for the Protector. The one that stood out of the crowd from all the other connectors with perfect fit, solid construction, price & the pc brd foot print.
 All these features do make the Kobiconn connector, to my long search, the best I could do & find.
 Ray Samuels_

 

So far ray i like it. I seriously though it not being able to turn would be a problem, but hasnt been a big deal at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 now the only thing to see will be if it wears down over time, but that will take time to find out.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The nice feature about the Kobiconn connector is that it needs no wires to be soldered to, then soldered to the PC board. As the Kobiconn connector is a PC mountable. This way it is very easy to remove the face plate & pull the PC brd out as one piece. The other connector, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, you have to pull the face plate with the PC board & might cause to have cut wires during the repair or for what ever reason. Also when you connect the headphones to the amp the connector stands out like a soar thumb beyond the size of the amp.
 The Kobiconn is very close to the face plate & does not add any more length to the amp. All these possibilities I have been though them when I was looking for a good connector for the Protector. The one that stood out of the crowd from all the other connectors with perfect fit, solid construction, price & the pc brd foot print.
 All these features do make the Kobiconn connector, to my long search, the best I could do & find.
 Ray Samuels_

 

At first I wasn't all that excited about the Kobiconn connector, and had contacted you about maybe using a TRRS 1/8" jack instead. I later was told by someone that using the TRRS could cause compatibility problems with iPhone headsets if they were plugged into that jack. So, I understood your choice better after that. 

 Now that I have the Protector here, and a single ended adapter for my balanced IEM cable, I really don't mind the Kobiconn connector at all. The only things I could ask from the Protector that it doesn't do already would be (1) to have a balanced USB DAC inside, and (2) to have been able to drive a balanced and a single ended headphone at the same time. 

 I can live without either of those features easily, because right now it's the best portable amp I have for my balanced HD600, JH13Pro and UE11Pro.


----------



## nycdoi

anyone listened to some phones other hd600 running in balanced mode? i'm curious about how far can the protector go.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takoyaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have both balanced amps.
Attachment 27794

 The protector is a sound powerful brightly, but a mid is slightly unnatural. Albireo is slightly soft, but mid　is superior in nature.

 BTW, I made conversion cables with Hirose connector.
Attachment 27795 Attachment 27796

 I use Ultrasone edition8 well outside,
 but can't use HD800 outside
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
Attachment 27798Attachment 27797_

 

That is the great thing about having different amps available. I heard the Albireo here at home and while it is nice, the mids were not distinct or transparent, IMO, and the drive and dynamics did not reach the same level as the Protector. I know that preferences differ and again that is where choices come in handy. This was with the Ed. 8 balanced and my JH13's. I do have to add that to my ear the Protector will change according to your source. I find the mids very natural a lifelike with what I listen with, my MB-1 or 2 or the nicely modified Monica II nonoversampling asynchronous dac. . 

 I look forward to more of your impressions. It looks like you have some pretty nice gear.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nycdoi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone listened to some phones other hd600 running in balanced mode? i'm curious about how far can the protector go._

 

I will have the balanced HD800 cable soon. Hopefully within next week.


----------



## atsukita

Balance connector of the protector is Japanese standardized JEITA RC-5204.


----------



## djbnh

Ran the Protector single ended 24/7 for 13+ days using the Isotek burn-in disc / AKG 701 phones. Took the Protector to work today with the AKG 701s in single ended configuration and "HI" impedance amp mode, and was sometimes under-impressed. Burn-in time was more than sufficient.

 Findings: Congestion in challenging passages, had to push the volume knob to get some separation but was never enough. Good soundstaging, but definite lack of detail with various cds when things got busy. 

 I'm hoping that my HD650s, running in single and balanced mode, will make me want to keep this amp. Going singleended with the HD650s tomorrow at work, with balanced hopefully next week.

 I'm not sure what to think, since the amp's construction seems superb and this thread's comments are generally great, but my AKG701s in single mode are not delivering the goods by any stretch of the imagination. More to come.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *djbnh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ran the Protector single ended 24/7 for 13+ days using the Isotek burn-in disc / AKG 701 phones. Took the Protector to work today with the AKG 701s in single ended configuration and "HI" impedance amp mode, and was sometimes under-impressed. Burn-in time was more than sufficient.

 Findings: Congestion in challenging passages, had to push the volume knob to get some separation but was never enough. Good soundstaging, but definite lack of detail with various cds when things got busy. 

 I'm hoping that my HD650s, running in single and balanced mode, will make me want to keep this amp. Going singleended with the HD650s tomorrow at work, with balanced hopefully next week.

 I'm not sure what to think, since the amp's construction seems superb and this thread's comments are generally great, but my AKG701s in single mode are not delivering the goods by any stretch of the imagination. More to come._

 

ive been interested in how the protector would fair with the balanced 701's so i look forward to your observations.

 And as a side not, the hi low mid switch on the back of the protector is for gain, not impedance


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoupRKnowva* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And as a side not, the hi low mid switch on the back of the protector is for gain, not impedance_

 

Good catch, ty.


----------



## mesasone

The K701 are fairly low impedance at a constant 62 ohms through out their FR anyway. I don't know if the Protector can give the K701s what they desire in single ended mode, but they may fare better when balanced. I haven't been particularly thrilled with this combination (single ended), but I wasn't thrilled with the AKG K701/Canamp combo that is supposed to be all the rage either. I'm pretty impressed with the TF10/Protector combo - again single ended.

 Anybody know which if any of the cables for custom IEMs have four conductors. I mean the reasonably priced ones from Ultimate Ears, Westones, etc - I'm not interested in dropping the coin for all that cryo treated stuff. I tried building my own cable, but it's been a PITA so far. I tried buying some wire at Radioshack but the stuff I picked up was way too stiff and not the gauge I wanted anyway. I'm not sure where to buy a suitable wire locally. 

 Maybe tomorrow I'll go pick up a multimeter so I can put my HD580 cable back together and make the 4-pin to Protector adapter and give that a whirl.


----------



## jamato8

My Woo 6 doesn't even drive the K701 well. I will admit a bias as I am not crazy about the sound of the 701 and as to the Protector, it is a balanced amp first with the side benefit of having single ended out. I do know, as stated in other places, that the 650's driven balanced are excellent, to my ear.


----------



## shigzeo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ray Samuels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi my friend...
 I have talked to mouser electronics and to the person who does the special orders for purchasing big quantities, they have informed me that the connector is NOT discontinued, it is in production BUT is not a stocking item. You have to put an order for big amount & they will make it for you.
 My first order was for 2000 units which arrived faster as I paid air shipping but now I have an order for 3500 units & they have no problem making them for me.
 Ray Samuels_

 

Thank you for the response Ray. Your response is great, but I think the current connector is simply OKAY, not great. The one which popped up in this thread is sturdier and easier to use, but then again, in your position, sharing the connector with other companies would also mean you'd have to share your work and research and the fact that you will release a special amp.

 I understand that you needed to keep things to yourself, but having compared both connectors side by side and pulling one in and out and really yanking things a bit (yep, I said yank), I feel that the current Kub version is not the best option. 

 That said, your amp is very nice though I didn't have a chance to hear it with my FitEar, only with a borrowed HD25. 

 Best.


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Woo 6 doesn't even drive the K701 well. I will admit a bias as I am not crazy about the sound of the 701 and as to the Protector, it is a balanced amp first with the side benefit of having single ended out. I do know, as stated in other places, that the 650's driven balanced are excellent, to my ear._

 

I tested today with single ended HD650s and it was more of what I had experienced with my single ended AKG701s. I think my take on this amp of Ray's is, "Go balanced or go home". I feel jamato8's comment about the Protector being a balanced amp first with the side benefit of having single ended out is sensible; however, I feel that if someone only wants this amp for it's single ended part, they would be disappointed; I imagine other amp's in Ray's stable would better suit those persons looking for high end single ended performance.

 I am waiting for a balanced connector adaptor, and reterminated balanced HD650 cable, before making up my mind on the balanced side of the amp. I look forward to hearing / experiencing what others have so favorably commented on re: running this amp in its balanced mode.


----------



## HiFlight

I received my Protector last week and have spent quite some time comparing it to my other portables as well as various headphones and IEMs, all of which was using the Protectors SE output, as I didn't have time to make up adapters, connectors and interfaces. 

 In comparision to my other portables, the Protector sounded quite good, better with some phones and not quite as good with others. I am surmising that the differing impedances of the headphones accounted for the differences in sonic performance. Some, such as my Sony F1's, did not sound quite as good with the Protector as with some of my other modified portable amps, but others, such as my Maestro 8.300's and Ed8's sounded absolutely stunning, outperforming all of my other portables. I did discover that it is very important to have the gain selector set to the appropriate setting for the phones being used. This seems to be more important in the Protector than in many other portables. As an SE amplifier, the Protector is a very capable performer and can easily drive all of my phones, including my K-340's, which are notoriously power-hungry. 

 Today, I had time to make up some balanced Protector interfaces and a SE adapter. As I plan to interchange my phones between balanced and SE, depending on the amps I am using, I decided to use mini-XLR 5-pin connectors as my interface connectors. They are small, sturdy, inexpensive, and make for a very neat single-connector termination, as can be seen in the picture below. I also re-terminated a set of cheap Sony circumaural phones to use as a test mule while comparing the performance of the Protector in both SE and balanced configurations. 

 WOW! What a difference! Using the balanced output, the soundstage was far more expansive, with very accurate and solid imaging. The differences between the SE and balanced outputs was comparable to watching Avatar in 2-D vs 3-D! I was not expecting such a marked difference between the 2 outputs, especially with such unremarkable phones. 

 I have a set of balanced AKG K-501's enroute as well as TWag cables for my ES3X, so it will be very interesting to see how well the Protector scales with better phones and IEMs. 

 As this is my first RSA product, I can say at this point that the performance in the SE mode is very good, comparable to other top-tier portables, but in the balanced mode, the performance moves to a much higher level, and IMO, can be very favorably compared to home amplifiers costing hundreds of dollars more. I am also very pleased with the quick delivery and safe packaging. 

 If, according to Ray, the performance continues to improve over the next 100-200 hours, this little powerhouse in balanced mode could very well change the way I do portable! 






 Addendum: Today I received my balanced AKG K-501s, and feel that the Protector brings out the very best of the 501s..no more thin bass, just beautiful music that is almost holographic in its presentation. I have listened to some of my binaural recordings and it is about the closest to a live performance that I have heard. Really nipping at the heels of my K1000's!!

 This is the 4th set of K500's that I have owned, and none of my previous ones have sounded this good. I am very glad that I finally decided to "go balanced" after procrastinating for years, and many thanks to Ray for bringing the Protector to the portable marketplace!



 Ron


----------



## Audio-Omega

The amplifier is smaller and lighter than I thought. The light on the charger turns green when the amplifier is fully charged. I'm using balanced Sennheiser HD650 with Zu Mobius mk2 cable to listen to my Protector. Balanced mode delivers much more power. 

 Listening to the soundtrack of "pirates of the caribbean: at world's end", I have always felt that RSA HR2 desktop amp couldn't bring out the bass of the last few tracks. However listening to Protector in balanced mode has changed that. It brings out the bass and the subtle details. The bass is also tighter. 

 As for female vocal, I have only listened to Enya so far. Her voice is "wetter" in balanced mode. 

 May be it's too early to say this, I now know what Ray mean by "balanced is a different beast".


----------



## djansia

Sorry guys,
 I looked at Ray Samuels site but I could not see the protector's price. Can you tell me how much the amp cost?
 Thank you.


----------



## SHADYMILKMAN

surch the thread!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6449067-post637.html


----------



## djansia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SHADYMILKMAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_surch the thread!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6449067-post637.html_

 

Thank you.


----------



## hvu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SHADYMILKMAN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_surch the thread!

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6449067-post637.html_

 

Those are the pre-order prices. The cost of the RSA Protector now is 475 + shipping + 3% paypal + 2.50 per connector. Correct me if I am wrong Ray.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

I have had the chance to meet with Ray himself today at his place where all RSA amps are conceived and given life. I was like a kid at a candy store. I was on a shoulder of one of his trusted assembler looking at some amps buing assembled. Anyway, I blurted out " if I need something that could very much handle whatever I throw at it... what would you recommend?" he handed me a well-broken-in Protector and ran me thru both options. With all it's 4 amps balance firing... I was like " holy..." it was nirvana. He did warn me of what to expect but boy was that an understatement. I then proceeded to demo the entire line and the Protector is what I want but just not what I needed at the moment but would surely get one soon. At the end of the day... I went home with a Predator on hand.

 Thanx again Ray and I will bring some of your stuff home as loaners


----------



## nc8000

Just received my Protector after a travesty of a FedEx shipping experience but even with no burn-in what so ever I can say that this is one keeper. In balanced mode it elevates my JH13 to completely new levels. Now to give the rig 1½ days of IsoTek burn-in before taking it with me for Easter vacation. I'm keeping my place in the Pico Slim preorder but I am really having a hard time imagening how it would improve or even match what I'm hearing here.


----------



## googleli

How does the Protector balanced out compare with the RSA Black Bird SR71A? Is it worth selling my SR71A and getting the protector instead?


----------



## nc8000

No idea, never heard the Blackbird. The only other RSA amp I have heard (and owned) was the original Hornet but that was so long ago that I can't comment on the sound differences


----------



## kunalraiker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my Protector after a travesty of a FedEx shipping experience but even with no burn-in what so ever I can say that this is one keeper. In balanced mode it elevates my JH13 to completely new levels. Now to give the rig 1½ days of IsoTek burn-in before taking it with me for Easter vacation. I'm keeping my place in the Pico Slim preorder but I am really having a hard time imagening how it would improve or even match what I'm hearing here._

 

Mate you've probably got a dream portable rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 congratulations, mission accomplished.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just received my Protector after a travesty of a FedEx shipping experience but even with no burn-in what so ever I can say that this is one keeper. In balanced mode it elevates my JH13 to completely new levels. Now to give the rig 1½ days of IsoTek burn-in before taking it with me for Easter vacation. I'm keeping my place in the Pico Slim preorder but I am really having a hard time imagening how it would improve or even match what I'm hearing here._

 

good to hear you like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we've got identical travel rigs with the 6.5 gen iPod classic to protector to jh-13's. Though i use mine at home too, with my Dac19 as the source, it get so much better than way


----------



## Audio-Omega

RSA HR-2 is brighter than Protector. I would be happy if Protector stay on the same brightness even after 200 hours of use. Music is more forward in balanced mode, I could hear music in front and in the back of my head, but that's only with certain songs. Listening to Enya's Sumiregusa, I felt like the song was wrapped around my head.


----------



## nc8000

Just a small teaser


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googleli* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the Protector balanced out compare with the RSA Black Bird SR71A? Is it worth selling my SR71A and getting the protector instead?_

 

IMHO, Yes. While I like the SR-71A when I have it but it can't compare to Protector in balanced mode.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Balanced mode delivers louder deep bass in the soundtracks of Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill. It does great justice to those soundtracks. The deep bass deserves to be heard especially when it conveys an emotion. I like the part where Big Boss tells Snake to "let it go my son", "I'm not here to fight".


----------



## monsieurguzel

Congrats on your setup...but yikes, thats over $2000 worth of equipment on an ipod based portable setup...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a small teaser




_


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on your setup...but yikes, thats over $2000 worth of equipment on an ipod based portable setup..._

 

It is that and it is a lot of money but I travel >100 days per year with work and vacations and stay about the same number of nights in hotels so to have something that is really compact and portable and sound comparable to (or even better than) many good desktop rigs is a true blessing.

 And add to that my pcdp+Sysconcept cable+D10+TWag converter rig so I can also play cd's that I happen to buy along the way.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googleli* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the Protector balanced out compare with the RSA Black Bird SR71A? Is it worth selling my SR71A and getting the protector instead?_

 

I had the SR71 (not SR71A) on loan for awhile, and IMO, the balanced Protector outperforms the SR71. Not so much tonally but more the expansive soundstage and precise imaging of the Protector. It also seems to have more output power. I did not do any measurements, but base this subjective opinion on just the volume settings vs sound level in the same phones. 

 Ron


----------



## Bina

NC8000: And what about imod or diymod?


----------



## jc9394

iMod is very nice, especially if you swap out the hard drive with CF. I travel it all the time.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It also seems to have more output power._

 

X2, that is why I try to get a balanced cable for my HD800. A very cheap way to get my feet wet for balanced rig.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bína* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NC8000: And what about imod or diymod?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jc9394* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_iMod is very nice, especially if you swap out the hard drive with CF. I travel it all the time._

 

Some years ago I did have one of the original iMods based on an iPod video and it was good but capacity was to small and I am in no way a diy type so it is simply too much hassle also I like the size of the classic and find it's sq more than acceptable


----------



## Audio-Omega

Protector in balanced mode could certainly drive Sennheiser HD650 better than HR-2 desktop amplifier. I could hear better detail because sound is more forward, whereas with HR-2 the sound is a bit laid back.


----------



## jamato8

I have my Ultrasone Ed. 9 balanced now. I have read that they don't sound good balanced but will report back. The bass certainly sounds a little different.

 The sound with a little burn in has smoothed out and I have to say that the Ed. 9 do sound good balanced, at least with the Protector. Deep powerful bass and beautiful transparency. Excellent!


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nc8000* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is that and it is a lot of money but I travel >100 days per year with work and vacations and stay about the same number of nights in hotels so to have something that is really compact and portable and sound comparable to (or even better than) many good desktop rigs is a true blessing.

 And add to that my pcdp+Sysconcept cable+D10+TWag converter rig so I can also play cd's that I happen to buy along the way._

 

Sir, this may be a bit too early to ask you since your protector has not been burn in yet. But now you have pretty much the same portable rig as I have (Ipod classic-Protector-Twag-jh13), can you let me know how the sound of ED8 with Protector compares to JH13 w/ Protector? I don't know if you have teh adaptor or not, Thanks.


----------



## nc8000

Sorry but I don't have nor intend to get an adaptor to allow me to run the Ed8 balanced from the Protector. Craig from Whiplash says that the Ed8 with a TWag cable sounds fantastic balanced from the Protector.


----------



## AudioDwebe

All right, so here's my WOW! moment for the day.

 My rig consists of a 2009 Classic (320 AAC) fed to the Protector via a LOD made from the same cabling as Nordost uses pushing a pair of balanced CK10's. 

 I'm on my third recharge, so guessin' 'bout 70 or so hours.

 I was listening to a Flim and the BB's track and the instrumental separation was not like I had ever heard before. On that particular recording, and some others, I literally get a sense of surround-'round-my-head. It's almost jaw droppingly amazing...(mumbles something)wait a minute...picks up jaw. I take it back, it IS jaw droppingly amazing!

 The balanced CK10's are definitely a dual-edged sword, though. On well recorded material, they sound phen-om-uh-nal! On not so well recorded stuff, well, yeah, those really sound like turds.

 I wasn't 100% certain that I would keep this amp when I first purchased it. Now, I don't see it even as a remote possibility that these will leave my hands. To get this level of sonic bliss from a (trans)portable rig blows my mind.


----------



## Ducker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All right, so here's my WOW! moment for the day.

 My rig consists of a 2009 Classic (320 AAC) fed to the Protector via a LOD made from the same cabling as Nordost uses pushing a pair of balanced CK10's. 

 I'm on my third recharge, so guessin' 'bout 70 or so hours.

 I was listening to a Flim and the BB's track and the instrumental separation was not like I had ever heard before. On that particular recording, and some others, I literally get a sense of surround-'round-my-head. It's almost jaw droppingly amazing...(mumbles something)wait a minute...picks up jaw. I take it back, it IS jaw droppingly amazing!

 The balanced CK10's are definitely a dual-edged sword, though. On well recorded material, they sound phen-om-uh-nal! On not so well recorded stuff, well, yeah, those really sound like turds.

 I wasn't 100% certain that I would keep this amp when I first purchased it. Now, I don't see it even as a remote possibility that these will leave my hands. To get this level of sonic bliss from a (trans)portable rig blows my mind._

 

I have a Protector I've been using SE. Can you tell me how your CK10's are terminated?
 Thanks


----------



## jamato8

The Protector is a portable balanced amplifier taking up little more room than three 9 volt batteries side by side. Who would have thought of the need or desire for such a portable device. Can the change from single ended to a balanced amp that feeds the monitor a positive and negative signal, giving a doubled voltage swing and better driver control really be of value in a portable? 

 How far portable amps have come in a few short years. The RSA SR71 or the later SR71a, with two 9 volt batteries and a swing of 18 volts would have seemed enough but sometimes enough isn’t enough. So does a balanced portable amp taking a single ended input and outputting balanced increase the listening experience? I could answer that at the end of this or now. Why not answer now. The simple answer is yes. Everything I have balanced sounds better. Listening to live recordings of the Grateful Dead, “Closing of Winterland”, is so fresh and so “alive”, you can’t help but be drawn into the moment. The separation of the audience from the band and then the separation of the band and imaging, that I haven’t heard so well since listening to a fine speaker system or, live, is confounding. 

 Listen to Creedence Clearwater Revival "The Concert" on your choice of balanced phones. It sounds like a live feed. The pulse pulls you along on a journey that is a shear auditory joy. Some systems seem to suck the life out of the music, this amp infuses the music with life. 

 Interesting, with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 in balanced and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers newly remastered concerts, the sound has a strange (for headphones but good) depth as in height in true dimension of space. I haven't heard this on headphones before. Such an open and fluid space yet precise. I have heard phase shifts before that add an interesting slant to the music but after a while sound unnatural, this isn't that, it is a true rendering of space but in all directions.

 So why is this confounding to me? It is confounding because I had no idea there was more music, sound, depth and separation to be pulled from these recordings and especially from ear monitors. That it is there is fantastic, that it has taken so long to hear it is frustrating on one hand and rewarding, greatly rewarding, on the other. 

 Can we talk about dynamics and the bass line? The speed that the drivers are driven to will make many other amps sound impoverished by comparison. Listen to some good classical like the war horse, Beethoven’s 9th with Roger Norrington conducting. There is no collapse of the sound field. There is no thickness to the music on orchestral dynamic passages. The sound stays open and unopposed by the constraints of too little power. Violins are sweet and yet there is a harmonic bloom and flow and the music cascades to your personal audition. It can’t get much more fun or rewarding than this. 

 Jazz is something I truly enjoy. Listening to any of Scott Hamilton’s many CD’s, which some can be a little closed in sounding, a nice positive impression of his playing comes across. “No Bass Hit” has the reedy sound of Hamilton’s sax playing while the piano has the right body and feel. The brush strokes on the drums is not white noise but actually sounds like brush strokes on drums. Cymbals have the right brassy twang to them. 

 For the listening of this amp I am using my Ultrasone Edition 9, Sennheiser HD650, ESW10 JPN, and the JH13 Pros. These phones are all balanced but lest you think that the Protector is only a balanced amp, it isn’t. You can also use your single ended phones. While not as 3D, which it is in balanced, the Protector is still an excellent single ended amp. So there you have it. Any phones you don’t want to use balanced, you have an amp, and any that you want balanced, you have an amp. 

 I should mention that I achieve around 30 hours of run time and more with easy to drive monitors. It should also be noted that while the Protector is portable by size there is no reason it can’t sit at desk side pumping out the tunes. It will beg you to wonder if anything larger is or will be needed for your musical indulgence. Quite an achievement from such a small package and you will think this all the more once you place one in your hand. It is also important to know that as good as, no as excellent as the Protector is, the better the source, the better the sound. Sure it will give fine results out of a portable player and well worth it, but if you choose to use it with a home source your rewards will be even greater. The potential of this amp seems unbounded. It is neutral and puts out what it is feed so feed it good and you will be smiling to the music.

 Here is one more graphic idea of what is happening with the transducers when balanced. Take a sheet of cellophane and push on it. It is a single direction and release, it goes back to flat. In a way two dimensions. Now push one way and then the other. From the single plain, you are now going in two different directions. Now add true solid control to that movement and you can see that the transducers you are using are going to spring to greater musicality, normally. 

 The Protector I am finding, adds new life to both recordings and ear monitors. The monitors got a reprieve and I got the reward. Have fun!


----------



## HiFlight

Very informative review, John...I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the Protector! 
 It truly does take portable listening to a new level of excellence. 
 Ron


----------



## AudioDwebe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ducker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Protector I've been using SE. Can you tell me how your CK10's are terminated?
 Thanks_

 

I ordered a few of the balanced connectors from Ray when I bought my amp. The CK10's are really easy because the wire from each earpiece goes all the way to the connector, essentially already providing you the balanced capability without rewiring the whole thing.

 I wrote about it in the cable forum. I would post a link here, but am not sure how to go about doing that.

 If you have any questions, you're welcome to pm me.

 Edit:

 Here, I tried. Not sure if it worked.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/rs...or-amp-477311/


----------



## Audio-Omega

Music is a bit smoother in balanced mode, there is less harshness. Female vocals have a bit more "volume", they don't sound thin like in unbalanced mode. 

 I was told that music sounded faster in balanced but I haven't been hearing that. It is certainly not as fast as in Stax headphones.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio-Omega* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Music is a bit smoother in balanced mode, there is less harshness. Female vocals have a bit more "volume", they don't sound thin like in unbalanced mode. 

 I was told that music sounded faster in balanced but I haven't been hearing that. It is certainly not as fast as in Stax headphones._

 

It would also depend upon what monitors you are using. I find that the Ultrasone Ed. 9 are very fast, as in lack of any smearing of frequencies and greater impact (dynamic rhythm). Stax should be fast though, by the nature of their design.


----------



## Ducker

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered a few of the balanced connectors from Ray when I bought my amp. The CK10's are really easy because the wire from each earpiece goes all the way to the connector, essentially already providing you the balanced capability without rewiring the whole thing.

 I wrote about it in the cable forum. I would post a link here, but am not sure how to go about doing that.

 If you have any questions, you're welcome to pm me.

 Edit:

 Here, I tried. Not sure if it worked.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/rs...or-amp-477311/_

 

Thanks a lot!! I'm going to give this a try.


----------



## Sasaki

I got Whiplash JH13 balanced cable so I can try Protector in Balanced mode.
 Now my setup is iMod 5.5G + ALO SXC cryo + RSA Protector + Whiplash SCSCag + JH13. 





 I was so impressed when I hear the sound. I have been a heavy portable amp user since I got original SR71 in 2005. But Protector provides whole new experience to me. The spatial sense is unusual I have never experienced in portable gear.
 Yes the soundstage is huge and wide but the most notable difference is on depth. The sound from this combo is not a 2D papertoy, now the sound is 3D sculpture with vivid rendering. This is a kind of magic.
 Not only imaging is amazing but also I felt the sound has a firm weight. Not faint but strong like steel.

 I remember this feeling. First time I heard balanced headphones, I felt similar feeling. That was GS-X with HD650 balanced. I think this new experience is a virtue of balanced headphones. 
 Jazz piano-trio reproduction is a strength of JH13, now this is even better than before and more life-like. Now rock sounded powerful and punchy.

 I changed cable as well, so some of the honor may goes to Whiplash (mine is SCSCag). 
 I think this cable is quite nice JH13 replacement cable. Good timbre, good bass. Sharp but not being harsh. I am thinking to get Single-ended one for HM801.
 In these days, Hifiman 801 impressed me much for its strong source circuit which employ high-end PCM1704.
 So my mind was about to lean towards the idea that the iPod based portable amp is now obsolete. But I was wrong.
 Protector proves.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sasaki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got Whiplash JH13 balanced cable so I can try Protector in Balanced mode.
 Now my setup is iMod 5.5G + ALO SXC cryo + RSA Protector + Whiplash SCSCag + JH13. 





 I was so impressed when I hear the sound. I have been a heavy portable amp user since I got original SR71 in 2005. But Protector provides whole new experience to me. The spatial sense is unusual I have never experienced in portable gear.
 Yes the soundstage is huge and wide but the most notable difference is on depth. The sound from this combo is not a 2D papertoy, now the sound is 3D sculpture with vivid rendering. This is a kind of magic.
 Not only imaging is amazing but also I felt the sound has a firm weight. Not faint but strong like steel.

 I remember this feeling. First time I heard balanced headphones, I felt similar feeling. That was GS-X with HD650 balanced. I think this new experience is a virtue of balanced headphones. 
 Jazz piano-trio reproduction is a strength of JH13, now this is even better than before and more life-like. Now rock sounded powerful and punchy.

 I changed cable as well, so some of the honor may goes to Whiplash (mine is SCSCag). 
 I think this cable is quite nice JH13 replacement cable. Good timbre, good bass. Sharp but not being harsh. I am thinking to get Single-ended one for HM801.
 In these days, Hifiman 801 impressed me much for its strong source circuit which employ high-end PCM1704.
 So my mind was about to lean towards the idea that the iPod based portable amp is now obsolete. But I was wrong.
 Protector proves._

 

Very well expressed and thought out review.


----------



## ThEvil0nE

Nice write-up Sasaki. I have some custom twag cables for the protector being sent overnight express from Craig.


----------



## AudioDwebe

Here's a question to all the folks who have (or have heard) the Protector and also have a balanced home rig: Do home balanced rigs bring out the same level (or more) of improvements in the various full-sized, balanced cans that the Protector does with IEMs (and some full-sized cans)?

 I ask this question because I feel that I'm getting more listening pleasure out of my Protector and a few balanced IEMs than some of my home gear, which is all SE.


----------



## Bina

Let say, I dont want to buy balanced cable from TWag( I borrowed for few weeks, it is nice improvment). What is other possibilities? I'm not sure, how easy is bulding cable myself, I'm not sure, if I can securetly attach cabel to pins. 

 Is there any cable, which can be easily balanced(what about that from UE18)?


----------



## mesasone

IIRC, the UE18 is really to be terminated with a balanced connector but the cable is not currently available except by ordering a pair of UE18. Shame, really.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting, with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 in balanced and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers newly remastered concerts, the sound has a strange (for headphones but good) depth as in height in true dimension of space. I haven't heard this on headphones before. Such an open and fluid space yet precise. I have heard phase shifts before that add an interesting slant to the music but after a while sound unnatural, this isn't that, it is a true rendering of space but in all directions.


----------



## Xan7hos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioDwebe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a question to all the folks who have (or have heard) the Protector and also have a balanced home rig: Do home balanced rigs bring out the same level (or more) of improvements in the various full-sized, balanced cans that the Protector does with IEMs (and some full-sized cans)?

 I ask this question because I feel that I'm getting more listening pleasure out of my Protector and a few balanced IEMs than some of my home gear, which is all SE._

 

x2 would also like to hear about this as well


----------



## momomo6789

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bína* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Let say, I dont want to buy balanced cable from TWag( I borrowed for few weeks, it is nice improvment). What is other possibilities? I'm not sure, how easy is bulding cable myself, I'm not sure, if I can securetly attach cabel to pins. 

 Is there any cable, which can be easily balanced(what about that from UE18)?_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/how...-cable-481514/

 its really easy to build your own a little work but nothing hard if you have a hour + to work on it.


----------



## Bina

Oh, really thank you for this momomo6789.


----------



## Audio-Omega

Music has a bit more weight in balanced mode. It's hard to go back to unbalanced after listening to balanced.


----------



## Sasaki

Thank you for the comments


----------



## ThEvil0nE

thanx to Craig for shipping the cables overnight with no charge... just in time for my long drive to NY. I know it's not "head-fi" material as no headphone can be seen but I will be picking up one at B&H when in NY to be balanced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 ...so this is an in-car setup I guess (2010 Honda Crosstour/stock headunit/drivers has been updated to Focals)


----------



## djbnh

Mr. Samuels is right, "You really have not heard the amp properly & have never experienced what it was designed to accomplish... The 650 needs the balanced termination to really shine also. Please get your self the proper cable for your phones to enjoy the Protector properly." Mr. Samuels espoused the above in reply to some comments I made about the Protector in single ended mode, esp. when used with AKG701 phones.

 Soon after I received my amp, I sent out my HD650's Stefan AudioArts cable to be a bit shortened / reterminated with XLR connectors, and had built a Protector plug-to-XLR adaptor using a piece of the Stefan AudioArts cable. Both items arrived two days ago (total cost = $60 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I can't say enough about the person who did the retermination / custom adaptor build for me, but that's another story.) I brought the pieces into work with me yesterday. I did only about an hour of balanced burn-in with the Isotek disc at work yesterday morning plus some more hours today. Yesterday and today I put some rock, classical, and Alison Krauss into play. Latest (nicely mastered as always, it seems) Peter Gabriel disc got playing time today, too.

 It is a truthful comment that my HD650s have never sounded better. Great pairing between amp and phones, for sure, in balanced mode. More air around and improved positioning of voices / instruments, improved midrange, gobs of detail, tuneful bass, more realistic orchestral instrument sound-presentation-presence, etc. I know it is only a limited amount of time running the amp balanced v. tons of single-ended burn-in time that I did previously, and that more burn of the reterminated Stefan AudioArts cable and custom adaptor as well are to come. However, I cannot help but like very much what I heard over a few hours of work yesterday and today. I note that things also have improved from yesterday's listening session, too. I look forward to some more 24/7 burn-in over the weekend with the Isotek disc, coupled with listening using even better sources. I note the amp has no problem holding its charge, too. I anticipate it will now be most unsatisfying to listen in single-ended mode to my other headphones - darn hobby.

 I think my questions about this amp are being answered with each balanced listening session. I'm going to have to see if I can get those AKG701s balanced, too.

 [FYI - I used to own a Xin SMIV, and kept it safe during use and transit in a quite small, well padded digital camera case. The Protector amp, which is certainly smaller than the Xin amp, easily fits into the same case; I imagine a personal player would fit, too. A few well placed snips in the back of the case made flaps that allow me access to the amp's recharging plug plus the gain switch. Furthermore, the rear sides of the case each have small openings, which allows me to readily use / snake out a right-angled 3.5mm adaptor from the Protector's rear input. I think the digital camera case ran me approx. $12 at Target some years ago. Just a thought for those who need a case.]


----------



## jamato8

I have been using the ESW10 JPN in balanced quite a bit lately. I have to admit that they sound much better in balanced that in single ended and I enjoy them in SE. In balanced they throw a better soundstage and there is more separation on instruments and voices. There is also a much better sensation of "hall" or the recorded venue. There is a natural space that promotes a better mental image of what is going on. The phones also just sound faster so there is a better tonal presentation. Bass as with the other monitors is excellent.


----------



## DC5Zilla

Anyone tried ED8 in balanced mode?


----------



## nc8000

Yes but not from the Protector. Craig loves them balanced on the Protector


----------



## ericcis

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ThEvil0nE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanx to Craig for shipping the cables overnight with no charge... just in time for my long drive to NY. I know it's not "head-fi" material as no headphone can be seen but I will be picking up one at B&H when in NY to be balanced 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ...so this is an in-car setup I guess (2010 Honda Crosstour/stock headunit/drivers has been updated to Focals)








_

 

how are you going to use this combo with the balanced > 3.5?


----------



## Jalo

He says this is an in car set up so he will connect the 3.5 to an 3.5 input to his car stereo on his long trip.


----------



## Sonic 748i

I got my Protector last Friday and have been using them with my JH13 Pro and HiFiMAN or iPod Touch with a SE 48" TWag cable or iPod LOD and radioshack 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable. I'm waiting for Craig from Whiplash audio to return from vacation to get my cables reterminated. 

 Compared to my ALO Rx the Protector not burned in SE has a very light and airy sound. Full of detail but lacking the weight necessary to keep the music alive. The sub bass is very subtle compared to the more muscular sounding ALO Rx. The ALO Rx has a more tubey sound with more presence in the sub bass and lower midrange. The music is more intimate and voices have a natural tone. But the voices are bit too close to me and damages my impression of hearing it "live". The Protector has a great tone to the voice but it's a tad bit more sibilant and lighter in weight, it still sounds realistic though. The treble on the Protector is crisp, sparkly and extended. Making the ALO Rx sound a bit muted in the treble department. I'm just hoping the sound from the Protector when balanced adds a bit more emphasis in the sub bass and lower midrange. Though, not as much emphasis as the ALO Rx does making the treble too laid back. The soundstaging between the two is more expansive on the Protector, but this could all be because of a more prominent treble and lower bass emphasis. Overall as of now I prefer the more muscular sounding ALO Rx when the Protector is in SE mode.

 Those are my initial impressions. =)


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried ED8 in balanced mode?_

 

I re-terminated my Ed.8's to balanced and they sound even better than SE. Mostly in the control of the low frequencies. Soundstage and imaging is more 3-dimensional with accurate instrument placement that stays fixed in position. The Protector drives them effortlessly. 

 FWIW, the Ed.8 cable is more sophisticated inside than it appears from the outside. 

 Ron


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He says this is an in car set up so he will connect the 3.5 to an 3.5 input to his car stereo on his long trip._

 

That still doesn't explain how he uses the balanced -> 3.5mm adapter. Doesn't make sense to me about its usage.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That still doesn't explain how he uses the balanced -> 3.5mm adapter. Doesn't make sense to me about its usage._

 

Perhaps the SE adapter/balanced connector allows the use of both outputs of the phase-splitter buffers, thereby doubling the output voltage. Probably Ray would be the one to ask if this setup is better than just using a mini-mini patch cord. 

 Ron


----------



## nikongod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ericcis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
how are you going to use this combo with the balanced > 3.5?

 

He says this is an in car set up so he will connect the 3.5 to an 3.5 input to his car stereo on his long trip.

 

That still doesn't explain how he uses the balanced -> 3.5mm adapter. Doesn't make sense to me about its usage._

 

+1

 Shorting the 2 out of phase channels together like that invites some interesting problems. Its certainly not balanced at this point (one leg is grounded directly to ground, perhaps with a resistor: impedance to ground is not equal) 

 I would sum the 2 phases through a transformer if your interested in doing it right. As a bonus the transformers will provide galvanic isolation, so possible virtual ground issues when charging are reduced if not eliminated.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, the Ed.8 cable is more sophisticated inside than it appears from the outside._

 

I have not heard exactly which cable the ED-8 uses BUT the ED-9 had an oehlbach cable. They are a well respected cable MFR in both pro and foofy audiophile cables. Clearly ultrasone isnt shy of nice cables.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FWIW, the Ed.8 cable is more sophisticated inside than it appears from the outside. 

 Ron_

 

More information pertaining to the ED8 cable please. What do you mean "more sophisticated inside"? Are these copper, sliver, SxC? what are the gauge size. This is the second time I have heard that the DE8 cable is not all that bad as stock cable goes. I am in the process of buying an ED8 for my Protector and home balance set up. How do you do it. Do you just reterminate it to protector balance connector? Do you make an adaptor for other amp uses?

 How does that sound from Protector? Thanks.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nikongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1

 Shorting the 2 out of phase channels together like that invites some interesting problems. Its certainly not balanced at this point (one leg is grounded directly to ground, perhaps with a resistor: impedance to ground is not equal) 

 I would sum the 2 phases through a transformer if your interested in doing it right. As a bonus the transformers will provide galvanic isolation, so possible virtual ground issues when charging are reduced if not eliminated.
_

 

If you look at his picture he has a Protector balance connector to 3.5 mini plug adaptor. All you need is to connect this 3.5 connector into an auxillary/stereo input from the car stereo system. Many cars have them or you can fish a line out from your car stereo system. It is no different from outputing a signal from an Ipod/iphone HP out into a portable amp. Here, he just outputing a signal out from the HP out of his protector into another system. But it is true that he will loose his balance setting. I have a protector female balance connector adaptor to 3.5 viable connector for when I need to use my balance JH13 on SE portable amp like the pico slim or P51 and I understand that it will not be balance through the adaptor. Did I miss something?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Did I miss something?_

 

Yes, he is talking about shorting the negative voltage of the op amp to ground. This I do not think is a good idea.


----------



## grawk

I'm surprised anyone with any electronics knowledge would go along with that h honestly...tying output stages together like that is double plus ungood.


----------



## jamato8

Ok, now I have been listening with the HD650's more. I just realized that I can listen to much lower volumes with them balanced and not only is the sound better than SE and louder, there is more detail and I can still enjoy it. Known for leaking sound since they are an open phone, I can actually use them and not bother someone that is across the room. That is a nice plus. Lower volume, still very musical and better than SE at higher volumes and comfortable, fine with me. 

 Now on to the HF2's. :^) Well in a day or so.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_More information pertaining to the ED8 cable please. What do you mean "more sophisticated inside"? Are these copper, sliver, SxC? what are the gauge size. This is the second time I have heard that the DE8 cable is not all that bad as stock cable goes. I am in the process of buying an ED8 for my Protector and home balance set up. How do you do it. Do you just reterminate it to protector balance connector? Do you make an adaptor for other amp uses?

 How does that sound from Protector? Thanks._

 

What it looked like to me when I got the cable open for re-termination was that the return wires are stranded silver and the hot leads are stranded copper covered with teflon, with teflon wound in with the stranded copper. It was very easy to tin the return leads, but took some patience to isolate and tin the hot leads. I cannot say for sure what guage, but would guess probably around 24.

 When Jamato and I compared notes after balancing the Ed.8s and 9s, he felt from my description of the Ed.8 that it and the Ed.9 probably used similar cable. 

 When I re-terminated mine, I cut off the mini-plug as close to the end as I could to preserve the most length, then used a male Mini-XLR as the replacement connector. I then made up a short pigtail of Protector connector to female Mini-XLR and also 1/8" mini-plug to female Mini-XLR. 

 This allows me to use my Ed.8s with my Protector as well as my other portable SE amps. I am also going to make up a pigtail to allow balanced use with my other T-amps, (Sig.30.2 and Virtue Classic) as T-amps cannot tolerate a common ground. 

 I is also my opinion, as is that of many other posters, that the Ed.8s sound better balanced than SE. 

 Ron


----------



## Jalo

Thanks, awesome details.


----------



## jamato8

I just got a nice temperature controlled soldering station that even digitally shows the temperature of the soldering tip. I had some hard to solder wire due to the coating like the Ed. 9 and 8. My regular soldering iron took a long time to finally burn the coating off and it was still a hassle. Today I did some soldering (I just got it) and thought, wait, I'll just turn the heat up. I maxed it and in about 10 seconds had a hot enough tip that the wires tinned in nothing flat. Turned it back down to 300C, where I will normally use the station and on I went. Great fun when you have the right tools. 

 So today I am going to finish balancing the HF2's. I don't know what to expect.

 Edit:

 Ok, I balanced the HF2. I am surprised, well I didn't know what to expect, but they opened up very nicely. There is better imaging and a real "air" to the music. For fun I put on some Brandenberg Concertos and the classical music is really done well. A very good tone and placement of instruments. I am using the stock cable that came with the HF2's.


----------



## JiPod

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_X3 - use your own ears, or wait for a more in depth review.

 The Pico Slim is a fantastic portable for the size. I posted elsewhere that it's only 1/2" longer than my miniature iBasso T3, well above it in sound quality, and half as thick as the Protector. For a while I had stopped taking a portable amp with me for an iPod because I wanted something small enough to fit in my pants pocket when velcro'd or stacked with a Nano, iPhone or iMod. I ended up only looking at portable amps with USB built-in because the thicker amps available served me better being used with my Macbook Pro.

 The thin Fiio E5 and iBasso T4 were not an improvement over the iPod, except in warming up the sound signature and giving more power - but not really hi-fi sounding as far as detail and soundstage. The T3 improved on that in terms of detail and transparency, and it could sound better than the iPhone 3GS headphone out, so I started carrying an amp again. 

 But I kept wishing for something that size that could match the P-51 (which is fatter like Protector). The Pico Slim is all that and more, based on the demo loaner unit I have here. It's a perfect match with my ES3X which can sound slightly aggressive paired with the P-51, and it gives a boost in the bass to them and my JH13Pro.

 I'll be using Pico Slim as a portable with an iPod every where I go now, and Protector will be more likely to stay with my Macbook Pro using Pico DAC or DACport for source (at home or traveling). I see them filling two different needs for me. I am using the Protector A LOT with my HD600 and Macbook, rediscovering how much I still like them - I've missed using balanced HD600 since the PSU on my Sq Wave XL went bad, and then when my Sigma 22 PSU had a different issue that was causing problems.

 Back to the amps in question: The Protector is slightly "harder or aggressive" sounding in the upper mids and lower treble like the P-51 Mustang, but also improved. The Pico Slim is slightly smoother in those upper registers and more refined, but has a upper bass hump instead which seems to resonate a tiny bit in my ears with the JH13pro. So, with the JH13Pro the Slim is a little more neutral in the upper mids and treble and the Protector is more neutral in the upper bass and lower mids. Switching to the Westone ES3X, which are what I used to audition the Slim at CanJam 09, I fell in love all over again. 
_

 

Thank you. Thank You. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
 Your feedback has made life so much more simpler for me.


----------



## Carlosfandango

I thought the Protector was the worlds first (true I understand) and only (maybe not true) balanced portable amp?

 If balanced headphones are the bees knees, is there any point searching beyond this amp?

 I also notice that it's a very reasonable $475 to purchse. So why would I go searching for an amp more expensive than this, isn't this as good as it gets?

 They say there are no stupid questions, but I feel like I just asked one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Skylab

Well, as highly as I think of the Protector's sound, I can tell you that I am not going to start lugging around my balanced headphones for portable use. I don't like IEM's, and I am not going to re-terminate my balanced headphones with the connector that the Protector uses, since I need XLR's for when I use my balanced headphones with my Phoenix home amp. So while I think the Protector is a fantastic sounding amp (and I will complete my own review of it soon), for me personally, it's not something I would use. At home I prefer to use a home amp, and on the road, balanced headphones are too much of a pain.

 But if you have balanced headphones that make sense for you to use portably, then the Protector is the bomb


----------



## Carlosfandango

But if you have balanced headphones that make sense for you to use portably, then the Protector is the bomb 
 --------------

 I understand your reasoning for not wanting to use 'home' headphones for portable use and the difference in the balanced connectors.

 However I was refering to full portable use with balanced IEMS (sorry, wasn't clear on that matter)

 So balanced IEM + Protector = nuff said?

 Which is kind of what I was asking, why go any other way?


----------



## Skylab

Indeed - in that case it seems to be the best option for sure.


----------



## Carlosfandango

OK thanks for that.

 Now I have to understand if you can recable any headphones with balanced cable and connectors.


----------



## DC5Zilla

SkyLab, can u give me some impressions of W1000X on Protector?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carlosfandango* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK thanks for that.

 Now I have to understand if you can recable any headphones with balanced cable and connectors._

 

A number of phones have 4 wires right to the connecter so all it requires is the balanced connecter that is used for the Protector.


----------



## grawk

Most iems don't have 4 wire all the way to the connector, however, so you'll need a source for the pins that go into the IEMs, or will have to buy a cable that can handle it.


----------



## digihead

My Protector arrived yesterday. Fired up to give it a good listen. I am going to give it the 100 hour minimum and then give it a good listen with the JH13 TWAG balanced. Will post some impressions once I have put it through the paces.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carlosfandango* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if you have balanced headphones that make sense for you to use portably, then the Protector is the bomb 
 --------------

 I understand your reasoning for not wanting to use 'home' headphones for portable use and the difference in the balanced connectors.

 However I was refering to full portable use with balanced IEMS (sorry, wasn't clear on that matter)

 So balanced IEM + Protector = nuff said?

 Which is kind of what I was asking, why go any other way?_

 

While I won't go on record saying that balanced JH13+Protector is the best possible portable sound available I will go on record saying that it is the best portable sound I have heard


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digihead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Protector arrived yesterday. Fired up to give it a good listen. I am going to give it the 100 hour minimum and then give it a good listen with the JH13 TWAG balanced. Will post some impressions once I have put it through the paces._

 

Right around the 80-100 mark the bass starts to really shine. I thought my protector's bass was terrible until I got some good burn in going, then it made my x10's fun again


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most iems don't have 4 wire all the way to the connector, however, so you'll need a source for the pins that go into the IEMs, or will have to buy a cable that can handle it._

 

You are correct on the IEM front. It seems that a number of IEM's improve with a good aftermarket cable anyway so it seems that if they improve with a good aftermarket cable, which is normally 4 wires to the connector, then if a person wants to go balanced, they have a double plus, if they desire to go balanced.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SkyLab, can u give me some impressions of W1000X on Protector?_

 

I can try that pairing at some point, I guess, although it seems an odd pairing - non-portable full sized can that is single-ended only. I wouldn't dare take the W1000X outside


----------



## jamato8

I just looked at the W1000X on line. They appear to be a beautiful phone. Unless balanced I don't see the point on the Protector since that is its primary purpose but it does drive a number of my phones in SE fine. 

 How does the W1000X compare to other phones? And I agree, I don't think they are something I would be taking around the park. :^)


----------



## DC5Zilla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can try that pairing at some point, I guess, although it seems an odd pairing - non-portable full sized can that is single-ended only. I wouldn't dare take the W1000X outside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Though it is closed and high efficient cans aren't they 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might purchase back ED8 but I'd be scared to haul $1500 headphones outside.

 edit: its hard to judge from the picture but... are those AT headphones pretty big?


----------



## Skylab

The W1000X are quite large, yes. They are very much full sized cans. Same basic size as something like the Beyer DT880, but the AT headband assembly is much more delicate.


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right around the 80-100 mark the bass starts to really shine. I thought my protector's bass was terrible until I got some good burn in going, then it made my x10's fun again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I baked it to 600 hrs and it is smooth as silk now.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

The bass on the protector is one of it's best attributes I think. It's the first thing I noticed that it bested the pico slim at, at least with my jh13s. It's so deep and so impactful


----------



## jamato8

I would say the HF2 are the airiest phones I now have since changing them over to balanced. Quite a surprise. I won't say at this point they are my favorite, but they are a nice change. They sound very free and open but could do with a bit more warmth. More time is needed.

 Balancing phones, for me so far, really does open up a whole new vista.


----------



## Carlosfandango

Oh guys, thanks so much for the replies. Lots of information, which is just what I needed.

 Thanks again.


----------



## digihead

Well...it didn't take long. Couldn't wait to burn it in before listening in balanced mode using the UE5c and TWAG. I can honestly say I have never heard these IEMs sound this good. Clarity, air, definition, speed. Can't wait to burn it in and plug in the JH13.


----------



## djbnh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Balancing phones, for me so far, really does open up a whole new vista._

 

X2


----------



## HiFlight

X3!!!!


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carlosfandango* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK thanks for that.

 Now I have to understand if you can recable any headphones with balanced cable and connectors._

 

Generally speaking, headphones that have a "Y" with a wire going to each earcup can be re-terminated using a balanced connector, such as XLR or Mini-XLR, without the necessity for completely re-cabling the headphone. For portables and IEMs, if the cable resembles a miniature version of common zip cord, it is very likely that it has 4 leads all the way to the plug, where the return leads are made common. 

 I re-terminated my Yuin G1s, OK2, Koss KSC-35, cheap Sony MDR-CD180s and Ed.8 all without re-cabling. They all had 4 leads in the cables. 

 Care must be taken to ensure that you install the new connector with the correct polarity (phasing) and correct L & R orientation. 

 Ron


----------



## wolfen68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digihead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well...it didn't take long. Couldn't wait to burn it in before listening in balanced mode using the UE5c and TWAG. I can honestly say I have never heard these IEMs sound this good. Clarity, air, definition, speed. Can't wait to burn it in and plug in the JH13._

 

If I jump on the Protector, the UE5c's were my first headphones I was planning to balance. It's good to hear that they shine in that configuration...


----------



## DC5Zilla

Just got an invoice from SAA regarding ED8 balanced protector cable 4FT..... $749!!! 

 Should I just reterminate the stock cable? $700 is bit steep


----------



## n3rdling

I don't know where some of these guys muster up the nerve to charge $750 for a 4 foot cable. That is beyond ludicrous. Do the re termination or find somebody honest to do it for you. There's no magic involved.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got an invoice from SAA regarding ED8 balanced protector cable 4FT..... $749!!! 

 Should I just reterminate the stock cable? $700 is bit steep_

 

Ultrasone uses some pretty good cable to begin with for their top of the line phones. They utilize a well respected manufacture in Europe. I would not say this about the lower cost phones and for some of those they use junk but not the Ed. 7, 8 and 9.

 ___________

 I am using the HD650's balanced and listening to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. The recently released remastered live shows and WOW. What great hair raising sound. Too much fun. :^) In the past I could have gotten rid of the 650's but balanced they shine. "Spike" is a great song with great audience sounds.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got an invoice from SAA regarding ED8 balanced protector cable 4FT..... $749!!! 

 Should I just reterminate the stock cable? $700 is bit steep_

 

You can re-terminate your stock cable for a couple of dollars. I am guessing that you will find the resultant sound to be excellent
 without the need for re-cabling.


----------



## nc8000

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got an invoice from SAA regarding ED8 balanced protector cable 4FT..... $749!!! 

 Should I just reterminate the stock cable? $700 is bit steep_

 

Ouch !!!!
 I have yet to pass the about $300 for a recable and doubt I'll ever go there. My most expensive cable is my 1' balanced NLE-053 between my Jungson cd player and RudiStor amp at about $400 (less when I bought it and the dollar was stronger)


----------



## Jalo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DC5Zilla* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got an invoice from SAA regarding ED8 balanced protector cable 4FT..... $749!!! 

 Should I just reterminate the stock cable? $700 is bit steep_

 

Well I guess that is not even their top of the line cable --the SAA Voice" and please don't check the price unless you have someone that knows CPR standby


----------



## DC5Zilla

They don't have one for ED8 but the Locus Design Oracle cable is $1800 for 10ft. I'm speechless


----------



## grawk

Once it's established people will pay more for "peace of mind" it becomes a race to the stratosphere.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Carlosfandango* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the Protector was the worlds first (true I understand) and only (maybe not true) balanced portable amp?

 If balanced headphones are the bees knees, is there any point searching beyond this amp?

 I also notice that it's a very reasonable $475 to purchse. So why would I go searching for an amp more expensive than this, isn't this as good as it gets?

 They say there are no stupid questions, but I feel like I just asked one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Not a stupid question at all but I think it should be noted that the real cost to most people that I read about here is $775, i.e. the Protector plus the TWag recabling. I have no reason to suggest that the money is ill-spent but that is a lot of scratch.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed - in that case it seems to be the best option for sure._

 

Rob, since you have only heard the Protector with dynamic 'full-sized' cans, can you really conclude that this is "for sure" with IEMs? (I do however recognise your qualifier "seems to be".) 

 I am more focused on HPA's decision to use the Protector for large cans and the smaller Pico Slim for his IEMs. No doubt the Protector is a fine amp but is it really another universe with IEMs or rather... a fine amp?

 (I am contesting hyperbole and superlatives, not trashing the Protector. I have not heard it and the feedback on here suggests that it is at least rather good.)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_


 Rob, since you have only heard the Protector with dynamic 'full-sized' cans, can you really conclude that this is "for sure" with IEMs? (I do however recognise your qualifier "seems to be".) 
_

 

His question, to which I was replying, was is there a better portable amp to used with a balanced IEM. Since I am not aware of ANY other balanced portable amps, I thought my answer was fair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The amp sounds good, and there aren't other portable balanced choices. 

 But as with every opinion I offer, you can automatically add "In My Opinion" to the end


----------



## OPTiK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am more focused on HPA's decision to use the Protector for large cans and the smaller Pico Slim for his IEMs. No doubt the Protector is a fine amp but is it really another universe with IEMs or rather... a fine amp?_

 

I was given the impression that HPA (and friends he tested the slim/protector with) liked the slim with their ES3X's and the protector with their 13's?

 EDIT: In terms of the cost, find a friend/forum member that's handy with a soldering iron and you can save a bunch of money re terminating


----------



## tjumper78

i was not able to read every single post in this thread, and this question/request might have been asked already. if so, i apologize.

 how is protector's single-ended mode compared to other high-end portable amps like pico, predator, 3move, etc? please do not say "the balanced mode is so much better" because i've read/heard it about 5000 times already. i am asking about the amp quality in the single-ended mode only. 
 i currently have pico but protector's input/output jacks' positions will be so much more convenient for my setup. and i've been wanting to try ray's product for a long long long time. and eventually down the road, i will be going balanced. just not yet tho.
 thank you in advance.


----------



## warp08

Although I sold it last week, I would say the Protector S/E mode resembles the Predator's sound signature so it is very decent, IMHO. I don't use full-size cans at all, so the power limitations of the Protector in S/E mode don't apply in my setup.

 For S/E listening, I do prefer the TTVJ Slim over the Protector.

 Hope this helps.


----------



## nc8000

The Protector is indeed very decent as single ended but I'm pretty sure that if that is all it is to be used as other options will be as good at a lower price. Only reason to buy a Predator in that case would be if one expects at some point in the future to use it balanced and just want to buy one amp now and be done with it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cooperpwc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am more focused on HPA's decision to use the Protector for large cans and the smaller Pico Slim for his IEMs. No doubt the Protector is a fine amp but is it really another universe with IEMs or rather... a fine amp?

 (I am contesting hyperbole and superlatives, not trashing the Protector. I have not heard it and the feedback on here suggests that it is at least rather good.)_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OPTiK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was given the impression that HPA (and friends he tested the slim/protector with) liked the slim with their ES3X's and the protector with their 13's?

 EDIT: In terms of the cost, find a friend/forum member that's handy with a soldering iron and you can save a bunch of money re terminating 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I am using the Protector balanced in my bedroom laptop rig with HD600 and JH13Pro on a regular basis. My source is the Pico DAC-only and DACport. I did like the Pico Slim a little better with ES3X, so the 5G Nano/Slim/ES3X will be my portable rig.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using the Protector balanced in my bedroom laptop rig with HD600 and JH13Pro on a regular basis. My source is the Pico DAC-only and DACport. I did like the Pico Slim a little better with ES3X, so the 5G Nano/Slim/ES3X will be my portable rig._

 

Thanks for clarifying (correcting me on) that. It sounds like the ES3X ramps up nicely with a crisp detailed SE amp.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_His question, to which I was replying, was is there a better portable amp to used with a balanced IEM. Since I am not aware of ANY other balanced portable amps, I thought my answer was fair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The amp sounds good, and there aren't other portable balanced choices. 

 But as with every opinion I offer, you can automatically add "In My Opinion" to the end 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Fair indeed.


----------



## jc9394

Woohoo, I just received pics of my custom HD800/Protector cable from Drew @ Moon-Audio. I will post impression once I have time to play with it.


----------



## nc8000

Looking very good indeed


----------



## jc9394

Indeed, it does looks very good. I always want to see how the Protector compare to my desktop amps.


----------



## Xan7hos

as do I  haha...jc what is that the clear/white aluminum color?


----------



## nc8000

Yes that is the clear/white/natural aluminium version of the Protector


----------



## kunalraiker

nice cables from Moon audio, must be costing a fortune


----------



## jamato8

I put the stock ear pads on the balanced Grado HF2 and they sound much better integrated now in the frequency range. With the large ear pads there was too much upper frequency energy leading to a strident quality. With stock pads the stage is nice and large with decent depth and width and a believable audience distance on live recordings.

 I still prefer the HD650, Ultrasone Ed. 9 or the JH13's in balanced but the HF2 is another presentation of the sound and they are better, to my ear, balanced than not.


----------



## FRGus723

Could someone help me out with the "technical" side of this. I have this interface at home hooked to my Macbook Pro via Firewire and it has a nice 24/192 DAC in it and I am trying to figure out the ideal way to hook this up to the Protector>TWag balanced>JH16PRo. 

 I am so new to the balanced thing that I have no idea whether there is a way to send the signal balanced or not from this DAC. Also what cables might I need for this. You can see in my sig what cables I will have. Currently I have been listening to this through the headphone out with a 1/4 to 1/8 inch adapter to the protector input and then to JH16 single ended as my TWag balanced cables have not arrived yet.

M-AUDIO - ProFire 610 - High-Definition 6-in/10-out FireWire Audio Interface with Octane Preamp Technology

 Thanks in advance
 FRGus723


----------



## nc8000

The Protector only accepts a single ended input signal via a male 1/8" trs plug


----------



## FRGus723

OK, Thanks for the quick reply. 

 So no way to get a balanced signal in and all balancing is done with the phase splitter then.


----------



## nc8000

Yep


----------



## jc9394

Well, I spent a good hour to two with Protector and HD800 using the Blue Dragon cable. I have to say, it can certainly drives the HD800 in balanced mode with plenty of power on reserve. If I don't have HA5000 and WA6, I will more than happy with just the Protector driving my HD800. It is slightly bright, not sure I need some burn in time with Blue Dragon. It does not brother me a bit as I do like more natural sound plus I love the JH13/Protector combo. 

 Thanks Ray and Drew.


----------



## nc8000

I could live with the Protector plus JH13 and get rid of everything else I have (except HF2 for the iPhone) and live very happily if I really had to but fortunately I don't have to


----------



## LeeMark

I have been listening to the Protector in balanced mode for the last few days with the JH13/iMod/TWag  and as compared to the other amps I own, TTVJ slim and the Headstage Arrow, there is no comparison, it is a different league.  Fuller sound, bass like I never heard before, speed, and dynamics are awesome and for you midrange voice freaks, I feel that the singer is whispering in my ears alone.  However, I will keep these amps as backups, but like nc8000, I can be happy with this setup alone (of course until the next best thing comes along!).  It's like every time I think the sound out of these little portable gadgets can t get better, someone comes along and improves them.  Watch out wallet!


----------



## jc9394

It is a very sweet setup, I'm loving mines every minute.  I never heard Diana Krall and Norah Jones so real in a portable setup.


----------



## jelt2359

Agreed. I haven't listened to anything else since. I tried listening to my Hifiman headphone out (Game amp enhanced). The sound was obviously less refined, the soundstage smaller, the 3D effect disappeared, and the bass became more anemic.
   
  It was immediately back to the Protector


----------



## Skylab

I have posted my impressions here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-37-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared/2685#post_6614209


----------



## FRGus723

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have posted my impressions here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-37-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared/2685#post_6614209


 

 Great review Skylab, my sentiments almost exactly.  I do find the mids on some recordings a tad bit too forward but not really enough to complain, just more so than other amps I've tried.


----------



## jamato8

I have been listening with my Ultrasone Ed. 9 today, in balanced of course (something I thought I would never do -convert them). But what a sound. Fast, open, detailed and uncongested with a great bass line. I have Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood live that I did not like when I got it but running it balanced, thank the audio gods because this makes the recording great, great fun and such stunning imaging.


----------



## Robertl594

You probably already know this, Whiplash Audio. Craig Sanborn.  A helluva lot cheaper, great cables and a great guy.
  RL


----------



## Robertl594

Quote: 





dc5zilla said:


> Just got an invoice from SAA regarding ED8 balanced protector cable 4FT..... $749!!!
> 
> Should I just reterminate the stock cable? $700 is bit steep


 


 You probably already know this, try Whiplash Audio, helluva lot cheaper, great cables and a great guy.
  RL


----------



## jamato8

Yes, he makes great cables and I use them but cheaper than what?


----------



## FRGus723

To those that are using the Protector ONLY in balanced mode tell me where "volume wise" on the pot you are mostly listening.  I'm just curious what volume level most people using this amp listen at.  I find I don't ever go past 10:00 on the dial.  Usually between 9 and 10.
   
  I am new to portable headphone amps and find that I am usually most comfortable listening at the 7-8 o'clock level but then it is hard for me to discern all the different sounds/instruments in the track.  To hear everything in the track I usually need to up the volume.  Just curious what everyone else's preferences are with regard to volume.
   
  Using this with JH16.


----------



## Matthew.C

Quote: 





frgus723 said:


> To those that are using the Protector ONLY in balanced mode tell me where "volume wise" on the pot you are mostly listening.  I'm just curious what volume level most people using this amp listen at.  I find I don't ever go past 10:00 on the dial.  Usually between 9 and 10.
> 
> I am new to portable headphone amps and find that I am usually most comfortable listening at the 7-8 o'clock level but then it is hard for me to discern all the different sounds/instruments in the track.  To hear everything in the track I usually need to up the volume.  Just curious what everyone else's preferences are with regard to volume.
> 
> Using this with JH16.


 

 Im using the Protector with my triple fis and I never go past 10:00. Usually between 8 -9 ( Low gain)


----------



## boomy3555

32 ohm Hammacher Schlemmer Zebrawoods, Low Gain 11:00
  16 ohm Hearyourself C-3 IEM's low Gain 6-8 O'Clock
   
  All Balanced !!
   
    I have no High Impedence Cans to reference.


----------



## nc8000

With my JH13 I'm usually around 10 +- depending on the recording, never above 11 and never below 9


----------



## Sonic 748i

I'm usually around 10:00. 11 o' clock max, 9:30 min.


----------



## jc9394

I'm same as nc8000 with my JH13...


----------



## FRGus723

Thanks everyone for chiming in.
   
  One last question.  After some burn in what area in the spectrum are you all noticing the most difference, i.e. highs, mids etc. or all around improvement.  I tend to prefer things brighter but with these 16's my "taste" for brightness is fading.  Now when I listen to things with the treble boosted a touch it starts to cause fatigue after a while. 
   
  I would have to say that has been my biggest discovery with high end monitors.  I always loved my Grado 225i's because they were just happier.  Now they are starting to sound a little too high in comparison and I seem to be now preferring a mellower tone.  I do feel like I can hear more things with a treble boost like fingers sliding across strings which I tend to like.
   
  Thanks again
  FRGus723


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote: 





frgus723 said:


> Thanks everyone for chiming in.
> 
> One last question.  After some burn in what area in the spectrum are you all noticing the most difference, i.e. highs, mids etc. or all around improvement.  I tend to prefer things brighter but with these 16's my "taste" for brightness is fading.  Now when I listen to things with the treble boosted a touch it starts to cause fatigue after a while.
> 
> ...


 
  Yep, you seem to hear more detail from that frequency when it is boosted but you'll grow to really appreciate a neutral tone because details will come out at you naturally.


----------



## Audio-Omega

I use balanced Sennheiser HD650 with the amp set to mid gain.  My listening level is around 9 to 9:30 clock depending on the music.  Anything beyond 10 is too loud.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





audio-omega said:


> I use balanced Sennheiser HD650 with the amp set to mid gain.  My listening level is around 9 to 9:30 clock depending on the music.  Anything beyond 10 is too loud.


 

 Humm, I wonder is the HD800 is hard to drive?  I use high gain and the volume pot around 9-10.


----------



## FRGus723

N00b question alert!!!
   
  I have a Denon AVR484 receiver.  This is no audiophile receiver by any means but I was curious if people listen/watch movies with the Protector amp.  I'm not talking about using this amp in HT scenario, just the occasional 3 month old sleeping and I wanna watch a movie scenario.  I am thinking about trying to watch a DVD with my JH16 Pros and this Denon receiver.  Will this be too much for the Protector?
   
  Here are the specs on the receiver, I assume I would either go RCA - 3.5mm into the back of the Protector or go AVR Headphone out - 3.5 into Protector. 
   
  Is it better to go out of RCA vs Headphone Out usually?
   
  http://www.buy.com/prod/denon-avr-484-a-v-receiver-dolby-digital-dolby-pro-logic-ii-dtsfm-am/q/loc/111/203324691.html
   
  Anyway, thanks for all the help.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





frgus723 said:


> N00b question alert!!!
> 
> I have a Denon AVR484 receiver.  This is no audiophile receiver by any means but I was curious if people listen/watch movies with the Protector amp.  I'm not talking about using this amp in HT scenario, just the occasional 3 month old sleeping and I wanna watch a movie scenario.  I am thinking about trying to watch a DVD with my JH16 Pros and this Denon receiver.  Will this be too much for the Protector?
> 
> ...


 

 Using the RCA audio outs from your Denon would give you a safer and better-sounding source.  Tape-outs to the Protector input would also work, as they are line-level outputs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Last time I used my JH13Pro with balanced protector fed by Pico DAC-only I had the volume at 9:30.  If I use the quieter iBasso D4 line-out I have to turn it up to 10 or 10:30.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Last time I used my JH13Pro with balanced protector fed by Pico DAC-only I had the volume at 9:30.  If I use the quieter iBasso D4 line-out I have to turn it up to 10 or 10:30.


 

 Wow, Skylab was right - the HE-5 do sound good balanced off the Protector!  Previously I found that when driving the HE-5 single ended the Protector was underpowered, thin and bright sounding.  I was quite skeptical that it could properly drive them when balanced.  But I now have a balanced HE-5 LE on hand, and for some strange reason I waited 11 days before it occurred to me to plug them into my Protector with TWag 4-pin adapter tonight.  The bass impact is there, and the sound is nice and warm as I've come to expect from these phones, as well as having great imaging and detail.  All I can say is wow, I was surprised, because these seem about as hard to drive as the original HE-5.  But boy do they sound good with the right amp.
   
  This is with the same Macbook > Pico DAC-only as in my JH13Pro and HD600 testing.  I found normal listening volume with HE-5 LE was at 11 o'clock, and it is pretty loud by 12-1 o'clock and very loud by 2 o'clock right before clipping occurs.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Wow, Skylab was right - the HE-5 do sound good balanced off the Protector!  Previously I found that when driving the HE-5 single ended the Protector was underpowered, thin and bright sounding.  I was quite skeptical that it could properly drive them when balanced.  But I now have a balanced HE-5 LE on hand, and for some strange reason I waited 11 days before it occurred to me to plug them into my Protector with TWag 4-pin adapter tonight.  The bass impact is there, and the sound is nice and warm as I've come to expect from these phones, as well as having great imaging and detail.  All I can say is wow, I was surprised, because these seem about as hard to drive as the original HE-5.  But boy do they sound good with the right amp.
> 
> This is with the same Macbook > Pico DAC-only as in my JH13Pro and HD600 testing.  I found normal listening volume with HE-5 LE was at 11 o'clock, and it is pretty loud by 12-1 o'clock and very loud by 2 o'clock right before clipping occurs.


 
  How those this little mighty wonder drive say...the HD800's?


----------



## FRGus723

"This is with the same Macbook > Pico DAC-only as in my JH13Pro and HD600 testing.  I found normal listening volume with HE-5 LE was at 11 o'clock, and it is pretty loud by 12-1 o'clock and very loud by 2 o'clock right before clipping occurs."
   
  Larry is that on low, medium or high?


----------



## Audio-Omega

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Humm, I wonder is the HD800 is hard to drive?  I use high gain and the volume pot around 9-10.


 
   
   
  I would be able to tell if I had HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  May be I should set to low gain to give better volume control.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sonic 748i said:


> How those this little mighty wonder drive say...the HD800's?


 

 They drives the HD800 very well, which I'm very surprise by that.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





sonic 748i said:


> How those this little mighty wonder drive say...the HD800's?


 
   
  Quote: 





frgus723 said:


> "This is with the same Macbook > Pico DAC-only as in my JH13Pro and HD600 testing.  I found normal listening volume with HE-5 LE was at 11 o'clock, and it is pretty loud by 12-1 o'clock and very loud by 2 o'clock right before clipping occurs."
> 
> Larry is that on low, medium or high?


 
   
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> They drives the HD800 very well, which I'm very surprise by that.


 

 I have the Protector set for hi gain since I got it, and haven't needed to change it to low for my Custom IEM.  The gain only changes where I end up with the volume knob for listening, but it doesn't increase or decrease max power output.  The volume pot is precise enough that even with high gain and custom IEM I don't end up low enough to encounter channel imbalance at ultra low volume knob positions.  It's the same pot RSA uses in the SR-71, but shaved down by hand to fit the smaller amp case.
   
  The Protector will drive the HD800 fine  in terms of power, but it's sometimes a little brighter or more aggressive sounding with them than I would like, kinda like what I get with the ES3X.  It's very useable and enjoyable with either of those phones, but it's not my preferred amp for them.  However, the HD600 are a perfect match for the balanced Protector, as are the HE-5 LE, JH13Pro or UE11Pro.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I have the Protector set for hi gain since I got it, and haven't needed to change it to low for my Custom IEM.  The gain only changes where I end up with the volume knob for listening, but it doesn't increase or decrease max power output.  The volume pot is precise enough that even with high gain and custom IEM I don't end up low enough to encounter channel imbalance at ultra low volume knob positions.  It's the same pot RSA uses in the SR-71, but shaved down by hand to fit the smaller amp case.
> 
> The Protector will drive the HD800 fine  in terms of power, but it's sometimes a little brighter or more aggressive sounding with them than I would like, kinda like what I get with the ES3X.  It's very useable and enjoyable with either of those phones, but it's not my preferred amp for them.  However, the HD600 are a perfect match for the balanced Protector, as are the HE-5 LE, JH13Pro or UE11Pro.


 

 Thanks for the response.


----------



## cooperpwc

(NM. Too off-topic)


----------



## edwardsean

Hi, 
   
  I've really been enjoying my Protector balanced with JH13s. I switched back and forth between low and mid gain and settled on low gain. However, as someone on this thread indicated he was using the Protector on hi gain even with IEMs I gave it a try. Strangely, the volume is much lower than the mid gain level, close to the low gain level. Can someone tell me if there is something wrong with my Protector or if is this normal. Thanks.


----------



## nc8000

Just a stupid question, but you have noticed that hi gain is the middle setting and mid gain is the top setting ? It sure fooled me initially


----------



## edwardsean

The stupid question was mine it seems. I was just adjusting the gain settings by feel and not reading the imprinting. Thanks! Which gain setting do you use with your JH13s?


----------



## jamato8

I use the mid setting for everything. That is medium gain. :^)


----------



## Sonic 748i

I think it's to prevent you from flicking it all the way up and blowing your eardrums out by accident, lol.


----------



## nc8000

>


 
  Quote: 





edwardsean said:


> The stupid question was mine it seems. I was just adjusting the gain settings by feel and not reading the imprinting. Thanks! Which gain setting do you use with your JH13s?


 


 I use low


----------



## High_Q

Would amping my Sony x1051 with this make any difference in quality?  Would it help me drive my 600ohm Beyer?


----------



## punkaroo

I wish I hadn't started reading this thread!
   
  I have a balanced (single 4-pin XLR) pair of HE-5s on their way to me. I like using my iPod as a source around the house when I'm not in front of my computer. This could be bad for me!
   
  BTW and sorry if this has been mentioned...but is there such an adapter going from the input on the Protector to a 4-pin XLR?


----------



## jamato8

I think Whiplash Audio makes them. You could email them to find out.


----------



## punkaroo

Crap. Now I'll have to look and pretend not to care.
   
  DAMMIT!
   
  (Thanks!)


----------



## FRGus723

Can someone post their impressions about the following. 
   
  I am using the JH16's through the Protector balanced and I find that with the setting on Mid instead of Low that the sound stage seems to REALLY open up on the 16's.  Has anyone else noticed that listening with IEM's on Mid instead of Low produces a more pleasing sound.  After going back to Low it sounds dull to me comparatively.
   
  Look forward to your thoughts.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote: 





frgus723 said:


> Can someone post their impressions about the following.
> 
> I am using the JH16's through the Protector balanced and I find that with the setting on Med instead of Low that the soundstage seems to REALLY open up on the 16's.  Has anyone else noticed that listening with IEM's on Med instead of Low produces a more pleasing sound.  After going back to Low it sounds dull to me comparatively.
> 
> Look forward to your thoughts.


 
  Make sure you're matching the volumes. All gain does is increase or decrease the amount of db's added or taken away for each volume step. Correct me if I'm wrong...


----------



## FRGus723

Yeah I'm matching volumes, it just sounds wider even at similar listening levels.


----------



## warp08

I haven't even thought of it, since the JH16s have only 18 Ohms of impedance and so far that translated approx. a 10 o'clock setting on the Protector volume control and about 11 o'clock using my JH13s in LOW-gain mode.  It could be--and Ray would have to answer authoritatively--the op-amps would operate at lower THD/higher efficiency.  I'll try it this afternoon and post my impressions whether mine does the same thing.
   
  It would be nice if it did.


----------



## Sonic 748i

I don't hear a difference in anything. Same soundstage width, size and depth. Just more volume at the same dial as if I had it on low gain.


----------



## warp08

No discernable difference here.  Remember, you've got to precisely level the volume, because louder music always "sounds better."  The other possibility is that Ray built a special Protector just for you...


----------



## The Rino

I just received my Protector from Ray 15 min ago.  I've been using the Hornet M for 5 years and I must say it sounds nice.  I have a balanced TWag cable for my IE8's on order from Craig and am only listening to the Protector single ended with my IE8's and is a marked improvement from the Hornet.  I'll report back as changes happen to the sound and when I get the cable form Craig. Craig if you read this, please hurry, the suspense is...not good.


----------



## FRGus723

Quote: 





warp08 said:


> The other possibility is that Ray built a special Protector just for you...


 

 Well I didn't want to rub it in, but he did   It's the RSA SUPER Protector


----------



## MuuMuu

Just got my Protector today.  Hella fast arrival for putting an order in on Friday.  He shipped me a two-tone protector instead of the black I ordered, would have been nice to know beforehand and I was slightly bummed as I wanted the full black, but no sooner than I thought that I realized it was an exact match in looks with my Zero DAC.  I guess things sometimes just work out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Balanced cables I've ordered for my HD650s haven't come in yet but they sound plenty good via stock cables -- I'm impressed that such a little thing can power big headphones.  By the way, is it safe to use the protector while it's charging?  I assume it'd be fine but I'm still in the 'be careful with this stuff it's BRAND NEW' phase.


----------



## mesasone

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MuuMuu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> By the way, is it safe to use the protector while it's charging?  I assume it'd be fine but I'm still in the 'be careful with this stuff it's BRAND NEW' phase.
> 
> ---


 

 Yes


----------



## The Rino

Balanced IE8's with TWag cable  Well, after what seemed to be forever, I just received my balanced TWag cable for my IE8's from Craig today.  These are the first balanced phones/IEM that I've heard and it truely is an amazing experience.  There is so much more emotion portrayed in the music it seems. Separation and imaging are much greater even with close to no burn-in time on the Protector.  I hear new and different things in songs that I've played many times before.  I'll report back as needed.


----------



## FRGus723

Just wait til you get about 30-40 hours out of the way.  I found that was when I really started to dig it and it just keeps getting better and better after that.


----------



## Matthew.C

Am i just the one hearing a "zzz" noise from the Protector when my phone rings / text message.


----------



## Sonic 748i

Quote: 





matthew.c said:


> Am i just the one hearing a "zzz" noise from the Protector when my phone rings / text message.


 

 I do too.


----------



## High_Q

Quote: 





matthew.c said:


> Am i just the one hearing a "zzz" noise from the Protector when my phone rings / text message.


 
  Thats probably cables picking up RFI from the phone.  The amp is shielded(metal casing).


----------



## cooperpwc

No. Metal case does not equal shielding. That sound, which is a problem with most portable amps when used with phones, is the amplifier picking up the EM (Electro-Magnetic) pulses when the phone receives data.


----------



## Skylab

That sound also is caused by GSM.  3G phones do not do that.


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote:


skylab said:


> That sound also is caused by GSM.  3G phones do not do that.


 

 Unfortunately my iPhone 3GS is being used on the China Mobile network with its proprietary non-compatible Chinese 3G data system so I have to access data with Edge (the older GSM system). And yes, I do have some problems with noise using my Headsix. However it seems that people on here with iPhones who have 3G access are also having noise problems with their portable amps.


----------



## warp08

Quote: 





matthew.c said:


> Am i just the one hearing a "zzz" noise from the Protector when my phone rings / text message.


 

 The Protector is a lot less sensitive to interference when set to Low-gain mode.  In fact, when used with a TWag LOD with my iMod, in that setting, there is no interference even when my iPhone placed directly on top of the amp while transmitting.  In Medium gain setting it'll pickup some.


----------



## High_Q

Quote:


cooperpwc said:


> No. Metal case does not equal shielding.


 
  Can you explain why?  This is the reason why I think metal casing shields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage  I hope you don't disagree with Farady.


----------



## cooperpwc

There is a product out there that shields. I haven't tried it yet but have it on order. Not just any metal enclosure will do. From your article..
  
  Quote: 





> The effectiveness of a Faraday cage or shield is dependent upon the wavelength of the electric or electromagnetic fields it is intended to shield. Effectiveness of shielding also depends upon the types of metals used in the cages as well as their thicknesses.


----------



## cooperpwc

(BTW quite an interesting article!)


----------



## High_Q

Yeah, but for RF waves, it should be sufficient. They are talking about the extremes of the EM spectrum(very high frequencies).


----------



## MuuMuu

Just got cables from Moon Audio for my HD650s w/ the protector plug.
   
  Comparing ZeroDAC -> Balanced Protector to ZeroDAC/AMP HP out w/ stock cables, to me the balanced out seems to have a wider soundstage, at the expense of some of the 'dark' color that I feel HD650s have.  In a way it's admitting that these cables/amps really do aid in revealing the source, but I can't say that it really matches my tastes.  Since a lot of the stuff I listen to are poorly recorded, having that veil lifted apparently doesn't do you any good.
   
  I'm sure my ears could acclimate ('burn in' if you will) itself to the new sound, but that does seem a lot like forcing myself to like it after all the money spent.  Guess I'll have to think about it over this weekend.


----------



## DC5Zilla

Finally got my E-Series cable terminated in protector balanced end from SAA.  iPod Touch 3g > Whiplash TWaG LOD > Protector > balanced E-Series > ED 8
   
  Burning in right now.... so far so good 
   
  will post review after few hundred hours of burn in!


----------



## grance

I use balanced Sennheiser HD650 with the amp set to high gain. I have to turn the level to at leat  2 clock depending on the music.


----------



## r31t0

anyone knows if the white protector gets dirty easily?


----------



## jamato8

I have a white Predator, which would be the same finish and if it does get anything on it, it cleans right off but I have never had a real problem with it getting dirty, even when hauling it around.


----------



## r31t0

thanks! great was thinking to get white or black..


----------



## thread

I wrote a little piece on my blog on the Protector since I've got one on loan for a bit. Thought you guys might be interested.
   
   
  Quote: 





> I had the opportunity to borrow a Ray Samuels Audio “The Protector” headphone amp, and I thought I could say a few things before returning it.
> 
> The amp has the same great build as always from Ray. The size is the same as the Predator. It has an unbalanced input on the rear, with balanced AND unbalanced headphone outputs on the front. This amp has the ability to split the unbalanced input signal and turn it into a balanced one.
> 
> ...


----------



## hvu

great read


----------



## jamato8

Listening balanced that sounds as big as the sunset here from my back porch. 
   
   

   
  Click on image if you want to see a larger size.


----------



## cooperpwc

That is spectacular.


----------



## hvu

Amazing view


----------



## MuuMuu

I was talking to Ken @ ALO Audio last weekend at a Seattle Head-fi meet, when he mentioned that a customer of his had him make some Protector 4-pin plug to _female_ 1/4" plug adapters.  I presume this is to use regular headphones on the balanced side; this should negate the 'balanced' advantage, but I'm curious if the other sonic improvements (the soundstage expansion, etc) remain intact.  For larger headphones that you would use this kind of thing in there's usually no issue w/ background noise anyway, so I am quite interested in this if it works as I think it does.  Has anyone here tried this, or a similar idea, with their Protector?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





muumuu said:


> I was talking to Ken @ ALO Audio last weekend at a Seattle Head-fi meet, when he mentioned that a customer of his had him make some Protector 4-pin plug to _female_ 1/4" plug adapters.  I presume this is to use regular headphones on the balanced side; this should negate the 'balanced' advantage, but I'm curious if the other sonic improvements (the soundstage expansion, etc) remain intact.  For larger headphones that you would use this kind of thing in there's usually no issue w/ background noise anyway, so I am quite interested in this if it works as I think it does.  Has anyone here tried this, or a similar idea, with their Protector?


 

 i do not even know how such a cable would work, where would you get the ground from? you cant just combine the two negative leads to make the ground, im pretty sure that in one of the threads that ray specifically said not to do this...


----------



## Paul777

Anybody else have a problem with their Protector experiencing interference from a base station/wireless home phone set?
   
  My Protector makes interference noise like what happens with many other audio devices when a cell signal is being received close by to the device.  It doesn't seem to have a problem with my 3G cell phone but goes nuts when the home phone rings. 
   
  The base station was in very close proximately to my listening seat, so I moved it 5-6 feet and it seems to have alleviated the problem.
   
  I have had a Tomahawk and Shadow from RSA and neither one of them had ever exhibited this problem.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





paul777 said:


> Anybody else have a problem with their Protector experiencing interference from a base station/wireless home phone set?
> 
> My Protector makes interference noise like what happens with many other audio devices when a cell signal is being received close by to the device.  It doesn't seem to have a problem with my 3G cell phone but goes nuts when the home phone rings.
> 
> ...


 

 My iBasso D3 used to do that, but not my Protector.  
   
  If I listen with Protector plugged in to charge, using my Macbook > Pico DAC as source, I do get a ground loop noise from my power strip.  This is a minor issue when I can unplug either the amp or laptop from wall power and make it go away.  My powered iPod dock has the same problem out of this power strip, and I either have to remove power from the dock or the Protector to make the noise go away.


----------



## i_djoel2000

anybody knows how to do the connections from protector balanced connector to 4 pole xlr plug?
   
  the xlr plug looks like this: http://www.google.com.my/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.fascinationproductions.com/ebayimages/productimages/ntrk_nc4mxb_hi.jpg&sa=X&ei=5gICTcGfIIPOrQfjt8yTDw&ved=0CAUQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEX_i00qUs2NPDvCbhKw-Ur-pJBtw


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





muumuu said:


> I was talking to Ken @ ALO Audio last weekend at a Seattle Head-fi meet, when he mentioned that a customer of his had him make some Protector 4-pin plug to _female_ 1/4" plug adapters.  I presume this is to use regular headphones on the balanced side; this should negate the 'balanced' advantage, but I'm curious if the other sonic improvements (the soundstage expansion, etc) remain intact.  For larger headphones that you would use this kind of thing in there's usually no issue w/ background noise anyway, so I am quite interested in this if it works as I think it does.  Has anyone here tried this, or a similar idea, with their Protector?


 


  i'm interested on how to do the connections of this converter..
   
  R- & L- is connected together as one stereo ground?
   
  btw, i'm curious with the rsa protector balanced mode..how does the output have 4 pins for stereo? i thought balanced mode needs 3 pole per channel?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  nope, balanced only needs two wires per channel, once each for the positive and negative phase. hence why you can use a 4 pin XLR for balanced as well as 2 x 3 pin XLR's


----------



## i_djoel2000

@soup: that's interesting..i thought 1 single channel of balanced mode needs +ve, -ve, and ground


----------



## SoupRKnowva

i_djoel2000 said:


> @soup: that's interesting..i thought 1 single channel of balanced mode needs +ve, -ve, and ground







Yeah common misconception, I think some people connect the shield to the third pin, but in balanced operation there's no need for a ground reference, the hot and cold are referenced to each other. The thing is that most xlr plugs have a spot for ground on the side so you don't have to use the third pin anyways.


----------



## i_djoel2000

@soup: in case i want to connect the balanced output to single ended load. i just put R- & L- together and connect it to single ended ground?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

i_djoel2000 said:


> @soup: in case i want to connect the balanced output to single ended load. i just put R- & L- together and connect it to single ended ground?






Uh no, that would definitely not work, if you want to run single ended you should plug into the single ended output on the protector, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the balanced out does, it was designed to be used balanced


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> Uh no, that would definitely not work, if you want to run single ended you should plug into the single ended output on the protector, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as the balanced out does, it was designed to be used balanced


 

 so, how do you think ken from ALO did the wiring to single ended??


----------



## HiFlight

Yes....the following will be correct:
   
  Pin 1 of Protector to Pin 1 of XLR = L+
  Pin 2 of Protector to Pin 3 of XLR = R+
  Pin 3 of Protector to Pin 2 of XLR = L-
  Pin 4 of Protector to Pin 4 of XLR = R-
   
  Hope this helps!
  Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> anybody knows how to do the connections from protector balanced connector to 4 pole xlr plug?
> 
> the xlr plug looks like this: http://www.google.com.my/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.fascinationproductions.com/ebayimages/productimages/ntrk_nc4mxb_hi.jpg&sa=X&ei=5gICTcGfIIPOrQfjt8yTDw&ved=0CAUQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEX_i00qUs2NPDvCbhKw-Ur-pJBtw


----------



## i_djoel2000

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Yes....the following will be correct:
> 
> Pin 1 of Protector to Pin 1 of XLR = L+
> Pin 2 of Protector to Pin 3 of XLR = R+
> ...


 
   
  yeah, thanx man..appreciate your help


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





i_djoel2000 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  you cant, if you have a balanced headphone cable, you can make an adaptor to use them with a single ended source, but you cant use a single ended headphone with a balanced source like that. ground is a zero volt reference for the other two channels in a standard single ended set up, where as in balanced they are two channels with the same signal just 180 degrees out of phase, combining the two negative channels will obviously not create a zero volt reference, it just wont work. 
   
  Yes you could physically wire up the cable adaptor, you just shouldnt.


----------



## Naim.F.C

As an amp n00b, out of curiosity do you have to use balanced? How does it sound through the regular 3.5mm port? Am I right in thinking I could plug my Westone 4's straight in to them? Would they still sound good despite not being balanced? See only reason I'd prefer to get balanced is for custom IEM use later down the line.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> As an amp n00b, out of curiosity do you have to use balanced? How does it sound through the regular 3.5mm port? Am I right in thinking I could plug my Westone 4's straight in to them? Would they still sound good despite not being balanced? See only reason I'd prefer to get balanced is for custom IEM use later down the line.


 


  you would be better off getting something like a p-51 or stepdance if you want to go single ended, the protector i meant to be used balanced, but it is pretty amazing balanced.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> you would be better off getting something like a p-51 or stepdance if you want to go single ended, the protector i meant to be used balanced, but it is pretty amazing balanced.


 

 Thing is, I plan to buy customs in the next few weeks/months (1964-Q, JH13, JH16, UE18 or Westone ES5) so I'd rather not have to sell it and then buy another in a month or two. The idea is to upgrade to balanced cables for the customs. But in the mean time I need to use single ended.


----------



## Jazzyfi

Well, the single ended sucks in my opinion. No improvement or maybe really slight improvement from the headphone out (YMMV). But the balance mode is awesome. One of the best I've heard until now.
  
  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> Thing is, I plan to buy customs in the next few weeks/months (1964-Q, JH13, JH16, UE18 or Westone ES5) so I'd rather not have to sell it and then buy another in a month or two. The idea is to upgrade to balanced cables for the customs. But in the mean time I need to use single ended.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Quote: 





jazzyfi said:


> Well, the single ended sucks in my opinion. No improvement or maybe really slight improvement from the headphone out (YMMV). But the balance mode is awesome. One of the best I've heard until now.


 

 So if I'm going to be using single ended for now, what would you guys recommend? And how would a Protector single ended sound compared to say, the SR-71A, Pico, P-51, Stepdance etc.
   
  Many thanks
  Naim


----------



## Jazzyfi

All of them are better. I had pico slim, pico, and iQube. All of them are better single ended than Protector.
  
  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> So if I'm going to be using single ended for now, what would you guys recommend? And how would a Protector single ended sound compared to say, the SR-71A, Pico, P-51, Stepdance etc.
> 
> Many thanks
> Naim


----------



## cooperpwc

Quote: 





jazzyfi said:


> Alll of them are better. I had pico slim, pico, and iQube. All of them are better single ended than Protector.


 

 In fairness, those are three very good amps. 
   
  (I haven't heard the Protector.)


----------



## Naim.F.C

Oh well that's a shame. I guess it might be better for me to just purchase a more single end orientated portable amp first then, at least till I get my in ear customs and or balanced cables for whatever headphone I decide on later (currently sporting a lower end HD555 but was thinking of going either LCD-2 or HD650 which might both be a bit too much for any portable amp to manage).


----------



## Jazzyfi

Or you can get the SR-71B. A lot of people said that the single ended also sounds awesome. Can't confirm to that but you can ask around.


----------



## Stevtt

I've listened to both through the sr-71B and it can handle them. While I prefer balanced, it does a good job SE also. Not too sure about the protector.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

My SR-71b single ended is better than Protector single ended, and maybe even better than Protector balanced (with IEM only).  I hated to sell my Protector with serial number PR-000 but after owning the SR-71b there was no reason to keep it.  
   
  I also thought the P-51 single ended is better than Protector single ended, and balanced the Protector was maybe only slightly better (it was a bit better than Predator though).  For me the main benefit of the balanced Protector was it had a lot more power than other portables for full-size balanced phones like HD600 and HE-5 LE.  The P-51 couldn't match the Protector with those when balanced.  It still couldn't drive the HE-6 at all, while the SR-71b does a very nice job with those.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My SR-71b single ended is better than Protector single ended, and maybe even better than Protector balanced (with IEM only).  I hated to sell my Protector with serial number PR-000 but after owning the SR-71b there was no reason to keep it.
> 
> I also thought the P-51 single ended is better than Protector single ended, and balanced the Protector was maybe only slightly better (it was a bit better than Predator though).  For me the main benefit of the balanced Protector was it had a lot more power than other portables for full-size balanced phones like HD600 and HE-5 LE.  The P-51 couldn't match the Protector with those when balanced.  It still couldn't drive the HE-6 at all, while the SR-71b does a very nice job with those.


 


  I've ordered a cMoyBB for the time being. Will use that with my W4's/SE535's till I order my customs/new headphones (JH16, ES5, 1964-Q, LCD-2 etc) with balanced cables. After that I'll look in to the SR-71B, though I'm also really liking the look of the ALO RX II despite not being balanced.


----------



## Jazzyfi

Have you consider iQube? One of the best single ended amp I've heard and the battery life is crazy long. I really regret selling my iQube..
  
  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> I've ordered a cMoyBB for the time being. Will use that with my W4's/SE535's till I order my customs/new headphones (JH16, ES5, 1964-Q, LCD-2 etc) with balanced cables. After that I'll look in to the SR-71B, though I'm also really liking the look of the ALO RX II despite not being balanced.


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## tranhieu

anyone knows where I  can get a replacement for the charger unit? Mine is broken


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





tranhieu said:


> anyone knows where I  can get a replacement for the charger unit? Mine is broken


 

 Yeah, email Ray Samuel Audio and maybe they'll replace it or sell you one.


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## techadd

hi guys i lost my protector charger, would a aftermarket 9V-1A charger do instead??


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## nc8000

Just contact Ray and get a new from him


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## techadd

send a couple emails and no response from him this few days


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## Ray Samuels

Quote: 





techadd said:


> send a couple emails and no response from him this few days


 
  I did answer both of your e-mail my friend.
  I never ever neglect answering e-mails.
  I did mention that you can't buy just any 9 volts adapter to charge a Lithium Ion battery as you might cause the battery to over heat & explode, specially if the polarity of the adapter's plug does not match that of the amp.


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## IamChinese

seems pretty good


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## NorthernAvengeR

Sorry if it's a little off-topic, but I recently got a new fancy-ass balanced 4pin terminated cable and was wondering if anyone makes regular-ass single ended adapters for those times when you want to plug it into more pedestrian sources with the same cable. Thanks!
   
  Female balanced to male 3.5mm.


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## Ray Samuels

Quote: 





northernavenger said:


> Sorry if it's a little off-topic, but I recently got a new fancy-ass balanced 4pin terminated cable and was wondering if anyone makes regular-ass single ended adapters for those times when you want to plug it into more pedestrian sources with the same cable. Thanks!
> 
> Female balanced to male 3.5mm.


 
  You will never ever need a cable like that. You use SE cable when your source is SE & balanced to 4 pin balanced if your source is balanced.
  No other way is right.


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## jamato8

Ray, I think what he wants to do is be able to convert the balanced termination done in a 4 pin for headphones to a SE for an SE amp by running both negative signal sides to ground and of course the positive to the corresponding right and left channel for SE. That way the headphones can be used with the balanced amp or with an SE amp.


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## nc8000

Whiplash amongst others make such a pigtail. I have all my phones terminated in the 4-pin Kobicon connector and then have various pigtails to 1/8" trs, 1/4" trrs and 2 x 3-pin xlr. All is Whiplash TWag V2


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## NorthernAvengeR

Ah. Thanks. I cant find anything on Whiplash store. I guess they need to be custom ordered. And yes I'm looking for a kobicon female to male trs adapter, sorry for being cryptic.


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## cooperpwc

Quote: 





northernavenger said:


> Female balanced to male 3.5mm.


 
   
  Quote: 





northernavenger said:


> And yes I'm looking for a kobicon female to male trs adapter, sorry for being cryptic.


 
   
  There was nothing cryptic or confusing about your post.


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## Makiah S

Dead thread :O


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