# Darkvoice 336 + 336i Tuberolling [ tubes ]



## Superpredator

There are plenty of Darkvoice threads going and some of them even have some decent posts complete with tube impressions; however, I did a fairly exhaustive search and couldn't come up with solid information or consensus. 

 In an effort to get a better sense for whether this amp is a keeper or not, I would like to get all the information we can in one place about the good, bad and ugly regarding what various tubes can do for this amp and the headphone you've got plugged into it.

 Since this amp has achieved something of a cult following among tube noobs and is right at the entry-level price point, it'd be nice if we could get some detailed information helpful to people trying to track down your recommended tubes.

 Let's keep this thread to the Darkvoice and tubes only. There are other threads going where you can let everyone know of when your amp arrived and the more general impressions you have.

 I myself haven't an ass hair's worth of information for anyone. That's why I'm posting this.


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## echo1

Private Message me and I will send you some tubes to start with. 
 Echo1


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## echo1

I have a rca smoke glass 6sn7 or a hytron I will send you and a 6as7g for the back.They are tested and have no problem with the Darkvoice a.c. heaters.(dead quiet) I have read now a lot about tube amps and using a.c. is what most all manufactures use and it can be a hum issue in all amps and tubes.... Its not just the darkvoice.
 Run a search on hum pots,a.c. heaters, d.c. heaters.
 I have done some changes to mine so I have some unused tubes that sound good but I no longer use.


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## SonicDawg

I personally really like the RCA silver laber (6SN7GT): rich mids, smooth highs(slightly rolled off), and GREAT lower resolution!


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## davve

hello

 i have think to use 6ASG7A SYLVANA front tube and back tube 6080/6AS7 RCA. Good match? SYLVANA tubes are made in USA??


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## davve

bump


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## DDQ

I'm quite happy with this combo:


> RCA redbase 5692 (6SN7GT)
> General Electric 6080 (6AS7)


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## raylpc

I just bought a 336i. Can anyone recommend some good tubes for K701 and DT880? I mostly listen to jazz, vocal, new age and pop.


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## abs@nilenet.com

Mikhail recently asked me to bring my THA-336i in to his shop to try out some new output tubes that he got. We listened to tung sol 5998s and that is a decent tube but the bendix 6080wb is an amazing tube! They are built like a tank. Even Mikhail thought the Darkvoice sounded pretty good with the bendix as the output and a sylvania 6sn7w for input. With the other output tubes he said the sound was 'mushy'. If you can find one, I highly recommend the bendix 6080wb.

 Happy Tube Rolling!


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## symbiosis10

Does anyone happen to have a good combo of tubes for the 336i that they would be willing to sell? PM me if you do. I'm looking for a good upgrade set from the included tubes to get me going.


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## Superpredator

So far I have used a handful of 6SN7 tubes with the Darkvoice 336i with good results.

 These were given to me by echo1, and I have only what's written on their boxes to determine what they are:
*
 RCA 6SN7GT clear glass 
 Sylvania 6SN7GT 
 Tung-Sol 6SN7GT mouse ear*

 If I recall correctly, echo1 had an issue with hum with the Tung-Sol (it has a cracked base). He was using a 336, and I have a 336i. I have no hum issues with this tube; it might even be my favorite so far.

 I also bought a NOS (~30 hours) *RCA 6SN7 VT231 grey glass*. While I like this tube for its rich/sweet character, it seems to have a bit of a constricted soundstage to me compared to the Tung-Sol and Sylvania. Others have mentioned that the Darkvoice isn't exactly the greatest amp in terms of soundstage, and it may be that it needs a tube with good soundstage to compensate. This is just my own under-educated speculation though.


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## DennyL

I started by trying different tubes at the front. Some Brimar 6SN7GTs I bought sounded OK but hummed. The hum diminished after 30 hours or so use, but didn't completely go away. Then I got a GEC 6AS7 for the back, and with the GEC in the back the Brimars are dead silent. I still have a few other tubes for the front to try.


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## KT88

Just want to add a little more.

 I have been testing the RCA 6SN7GTB for the last couple of hours (and will be testing it for 2 more days until I decide if I want ot buy it).

 As far as sound is concerned, going from the stock tube to this one is like going from the emu 0404 to the 1212m. the sound is more accurate, flat, detailed. Yet, it is a bit less dynamic (bass is a bit less punchy), and some recordings sound a bit boring compered to the stock tube (yet more realistic).

 I think I'll get the RCA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I'll probably have a chance to test a few more tubes in the next few weeks, so I'll keep you all informed.


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## KT88

some more tubes I have tested:
 Sylvania 6SN7 - ****y tube. Highs and mids are awful. worst tube I have ever heard.
 RCA 6080 - a vit less trebel, a little more bass punch, about the same detail andsound stage.

 For the moment I am leaving the original tubes.


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## Fitz

With the Darkvoice and W5000, there is only one tube that has satisfied me in every aspect: The grey glass RCA 6SN7GT (or VT-231, identical tube). It's the tube I loved with the K501, and I dunno why the hell I didn't try it on the W5000 sooner. I've been going back and forth between it and my other tubes the last few days, and I can't really find any aspects where it doesn't win in my system. It's a little thick in the midbass, with less low end slam, which is the exact opposite of the W5000, so it fills out to the perfect combination of bass slam and warmth. The sound is very lush and smooth, with some kind of almost magical ability to counter the weird frequency response on the W5000. It's great with fast & clear phones like the W5000 and K501, but probably your last choice for any headphone that starts off too warm or recessed (I don't even want to imagine how thick and syrupy this tube would sound with the HD650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). The highs seem to have a bit of a slow rolloff compared to other tubes, so you need a good, strong treble response on your phones to avoid problems there.

 Neither the Darkvoice nor the W5000 have what I would call a big soundstage, so the RCA's smaller, more intimate sound isn't a problem for me, and works great because it doesn't try to make the W5000 do more than it actually can for soundstage.

 It is by far and away the most "musical" tube I've used. I can't even analytically listen to it if I try, I just get lost in the music for several hours at a time, even if I only meant to check how one track sounded. The music just _flows_.

 I've also been using a Svetlana 6H13C for the output tube, which I haven't had any complaints about at all. Both of these tubes are easy to get real cheap, so that makes me even happier about the combo!

 I _really_ wish I could give my thoughts on this tube with more common phones like the K701.


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## KT88

Hey, 1 more update.
 GE 6SN7 GTB - great sound, not one problem. very nice bass,mid, treble.
 6SN7EH Electro-Harmonics - unfortunatley this tube has a little bit of a hum in one channel, so I didn't test it any more.
 6SN7 (dont know the makker - do know it was made in 85 in Russia with military standarts, the logo proves it) - just like the GE, yet a bit different. the diffrence is so small, it took me 4 times of changing between the tubes to find it.

 I think I will stick to the russian made military 6SN7, and will start looking for a power tube. Unfortunatley, the output tube is harder to find withput buying it.


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## jigster

Erm Fitz, can the DV use 6N13S power tubes? I thought only 6AS7s & 6080s? Sorry but pardon my ignorance. Looking for a power tube now, if 6N13s fit then more choice now.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jigster* 
_Erm Fitz, can the DV use 6N13S power tubes? I thought only 6AS7s & 6080s? Sorry but pardon my ignorance. Looking for a power tube now, if 6N13s fit then more choice now._

 

The 6H13C/6N13S is just a Russian equivalent of the 6AS7 with slightly higher limits.


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## KT88

One more update:
 GE 6AS7 with black plates - the greatest difference a tube has ever made. The bass is just unbelivable. My K340's have more bass than I have ever thought they can. A very good tube, clear sound and great bass. Male vocals sound very good. Only weakness is the fact its smaller than the original tube in size, and because of that doesn't look as good.


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## nichifanlema

KT88: Is that results from tuberolling with Darkvoice 336i?


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## KT88

I'm not sure I understand the question, can you please rephrase it?

 Thanks


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## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KT88* 
_I'm not sure I understand the question, can you please rephrase it?

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I meant to ask if you are posting results from tuberolling the 336i...


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## KT88

Yes. as can be seen in my posts I have mentioned in each and every one of them what tube is used, and what's the sound compared to the stock tube.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KT88* 
_One more update:
 GE 6AS7 with black plates - the greatest difference a tube has ever made. The bass is just unbelivable. My K340's have more bass than I have ever thought they can. A very good tube, clear sound and great bass. Male vocals sound very good. Only weakness is the fact its smaller than the original tube in size, and because of that doesn't look as good._

 

You mean the 6AS7GA? I have one but it's on its last limb and arcs over so I can't use it. I'm curious as to how it sounds now since you say that, but I can't possibly imagine getting any more bass than I already have with the W5000 without it turning into a fart cannon.


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## nichifanlema

this is pretty off the original thread, but How do one can distinguish 336 from 336i without just from the appearance, without opening it up?


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nichifanlema* 
_this is pretty off the original thread, but How do one can distinguish 336 from 336i without just from the appearance, without opening it up?_

 

Interesting question. The original 336 and 2nd revision 336 are easily distinguishable by silver vs black, but I'm not specifically aware of any external changes from 336 to 336i.


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## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Interesting question. The original 336 and 2nd revision 336 are easily distinguishable by silver vs black, but I'm not specifically aware of any external changes from 336 to 336i._

 

Hmm .. your Fits Modded 336 is based on the original 336 right?


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nichifanlema* 
_Hmm .. your Fits Modded 336 is based on the original 336 right?_

 

Yup. And AFAIK I *was* the only person on Head-Fi in possession of the original 336. Everybody else seems to have the factory-upgraded 2nd revision.


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## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Yup. And AFAIK I *was* the only person on Head-Fi in possession of the original 336. Everybody else seems to have the factory-upgraded 2nd revision. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well...the 2nd revision looks same comparing to the 336i.. so I was curious


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## DaNuS

I was considering trying a Tube Amp but I had a question: When the Tubes die on this unit can replacement tubes be purchased in the States? Also, is it as simplie and removing the the old tubes and replacing them with new ones (in pairs according to the Sticky FAQ)? Can anyone give me a brief rundown on replacement procedures as I've been looking all over to get a clearer idea of how to replace them. Thanks!


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## echo1

I discovered the Dark glass RCA's were the best for me also. They are just so smooth with the darkvoice.
 My best choice also.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DaNuS* 
_I was considering trying a Tube Amp but I had a question: When the Tubes die on this unit can replacement tubes be purchased in the States? Also, is it as simplie and removing the the old tubes and replacing them with new ones (in pairs according to the Sticky FAQ)? Can anyone give me a brief rundown on replacement procedures as I've been looking all over to get a clearer idea of how to replace them. Thanks!_

 

The Darkvoice is probably one of the easiest amps around to replace the tubes on. The small tube in front can take any 6SN7 variant/substitute, which has versions available in current production, as well as a *vast* array of vintage options. The large tube in back can take any 6AS7 variant/substitute, and is also available in current production, and has a decent set of options for vintage tubes. To replace them, just make sure the amp is off, and take the old one out and put the new one in, no other adjustments are necessary at all, as this amp is self-biasing.


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## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_With the Darkvoice and W5000, there is only one tube that has satisfied me in every aspect: The grey glass RCA 6SN7GT (or VT-231, identical tube). It's the tube I loved with the K501, and I dunno why the hell I didn't try it on the W5000 sooner. I've been going back and forth between it and my other tubes the last few days, and I can't really find any aspects where it doesn't win in my system. It's a little thick in the midbass, with less low end slam, which is the exact opposite of the W5000, so it fills out to the perfect combination of bass slam and warmth. The sound is very lush and smooth, with some kind of almost magical ability to counter the weird frequency response on the W5000. It's great with fast & clear phones like the W5000 and K501, but probably your last choice for any headphone that starts off too warm or recessed (I don't even want to imagine how thick and syrupy this tube would sound with the HD650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). The highs seem to have a bit of a slow rolloff compared to other tubes, so you need a good, strong treble response on your phones to avoid problems there.

 Neither the Darkvoice nor the W5000 have what I would call a big soundstage, so the RCA's smaller, more intimate sound isn't a problem for me, and works great because it doesn't try to make the W5000 do more than it actually can for soundstage.

 It is by far and away the most "musical" tube I've used. I can't even analytically listen to it if I try, I just get lost in the music for several hours at a time, even if I only meant to check how one track sounded. The music just flows.

 I've also been using a Svetlana 6H13C for the output tube, which I haven't had any complaints about at all. Both of these tubes are easy to get real cheap, so that makes me even happier about the combo!

 I really wish I could give my thoughts on this tube with more common phones like the K701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dont forget, I was the *first* to decide that the RCA was a favorite for the darkvoice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .Even before Fitz and the other guy.And with the version 2 Black darkvoice to boot. Gave me less time.


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## nichifanlema

Hmm... how woud Darkvoice 336i compare to Wooaudio 3 / 6?

 I had to make a decision between DV 336i, Woo 6 and PPX3, and I went with Woo6....

 Now I'm curious if the DV 336i is a contender for Woo 6...although Woo6 has higher price


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## echo1

The Darkvoice 337 maybe a contender to the Woo 6. I am trying to get someone to commit.But you know if it doesnt fit,you must...... Oh waite a minute,different decade, Sorry


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Dont forget, I was the *first* to decide that the RCA was a favorite for the darkvoice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .Even before Fitz and the other guy.And with the version 2 Black darkvoice to boot. Gave me less time._

 

Well I'm the first to declare it best with the 336FM, so there!


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## nichifanlema

I just found someone who's selling 336i, 337i, and possibly 332 soon...

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=342802


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## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Interesting question. The original 336 and 2nd revision 336 are easily distinguishable by silver vs black, but I'm not specifically aware of any external changes from 336 to 336i._

 

I was wondering... is it the same for 337? like, original 337, then 2nd revision, and now 337i?


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## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* 
_Well I'm the first to declare it best with the 336FM, so there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 




 Well I'me getting a Paradisea Dac and Fitz dont have one.
 NA NA Na.Stick that in your Darkvoice FM and smoke it.


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## echo1

So what new changes did you come up with for the great sound ?
 Output caps?Or was this an actual design or curcuit change?
 Oh please tell.(I promise not to tease you about my new wonderfull Dac)


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## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Well I'me getting a Paradisea Dac and Fitz dont have one.
 NA NA Na.Stick that in your Darkvoice FM and smoke it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you all think the smoke it in the darkvoiceFM was over the line.


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## echo1

Hay Fitz,if you send me a schematic of your design change or your new parts list,I have a real nice Smoke glass RCA here I could cut you a good deal. ????????????
 I am sorry about the put that in your DarkvoiceFM and smoke it, I should of said"Well put that on your Darkvoice FM tube heaters and smoke it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now the waite.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Hay Fitz,if you send me a schematic of your design change or your new parts list,I have a real nice Smoke glass RCA here I could cut you a good deal. ????????????_

 

I thought you already were pretty much up to date with the mods...


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## echo1

I was mistaken I guess. I thought you said that you had just done something different that improved the sound.
 But Back to the RCA, I just picked up 3 RCA 12sn7gt
 dark glass and with my CBS and Marconi tubes I fell that I can let go now of my remaining 6sn7 stock. I do have a 6sn7 smoke glass,not the heavy dark glass. I will let you have it for the astonishing price of sending some of that spare wire you have.I need some 22,20 gauge wire.And maybe some future advice?I still thank you for helping me.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_I was mistaken I guess. I thought you said that you had just done something different that improved the sound.
 But Back to the RCA, I just picked up 3 RCA 12sn7gt
 dark glass and with my CBS and Marconi tubes I fell that I can let go now of my remaining 6sn7 stock. I do have a 6sn7 smoke glass,not the heavy dark glass. I will let you have it for the astonishing price of sending some of that spare wire you have.I need some 22,20 gauge wire.And maybe some future advice?I still thank you for helping me._

 

Let me know what you need in terms of colour and amount. I got some red, black, blue, green, and purple in 20 gauge, and some red, black, white, orange, yellow, blue, purple, grey and a bunch of white w/ coloured stripes in 22 gauge. If you need longer lengths and not just short pieces for chassis wiring, I'd have to look to see what I have, since most of it is made up of short pieces.


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## jigster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *echo1* 
_Well I'me getting a Paradisea Dac and Fitz dont have one.
 NA NA Na.Stick that in your Darkvoice FM and smoke it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Hey echo1, how is the Paradisea DAC with the DV? Thinking of getting one myself. Is the improvement significant enough to justify its price (being more expensive than the DV itself)? My DV is default version - no mods. Thanks.


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## SonicDawg

Going back to the original topic, personally I really dig the sound of Sylvania Chrome Dome-- not too expensive, very smooth and great speed. The bass is very tight and high end extension is excellent as well. I have tried the Grey Glass RCA. It is very very sweet and smooth, tonally very musical, yet the lower end seems too boomy on my system, not to mention the rolled off top end that doesn't pair too well with my K340s.


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## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* 
_Going back to the original topic, personally I really dig the sound of Sylvania Chrome Dome-- not too expensive, very smooth and great speed. The bass is very tight and high end extension is excellent as well. I have tried the Grey Glass RCA. It is very very sweet and smooth, tonally very musical, yet the lower end seems too boomy on my system, not to mention the rolled off top end that doesn't pair too well with my K340s._

 

I had a few used chrome domes, but sadly they were too heavily used to get good sound quality out of them. From the times I've heard it, the K340 has its own peculiar frequency response that can be a bit tricky to get the right with the rest of the system, just like the W5000. Most tubes sounded "good" with the W5000s, but so far only the grey glass RCA 6SN7GT has sounded "great". I'm still loving it, even with my W5000s now heavily modded.


 And hey, Rod-maestro, you still haven't let me know what all wire you want.


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## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *symbiosis10* 
_Does anyone happen to have a good combo of tubes for the 336i that they would be willing to sell? PM me if you do. I'm looking for a good upgrade set from the included tubes to get me going._

 

I've tried 4 different, "common man's" 6SN7's in the front, together with the RCA 6080w in the back. My findings so far (ranked from most- to least- favored):

 (1) Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top/black, triangular plates, orange print on base. Nice, open, clean, detailed and balanced. Ry Cooder's "Bop Till You Drop" never sounded better. I'm getting just a tad bit of high frequency noise with it.

 (2) RCA 6SN7GT clear glass/copper support rods. Smooth, warm, flowing,though sacrificing just a bit of detail. Nearly dead quiet in the 336i.

 (3) Raytheon 6SN7GTB shortbase. More upfront and slappy (but in a good way). Good high frequency resolution and extension, nice bass, too. Low level hum (more than (1) or (2) above).

 (4) GE 6SN7GTA. Balanced, nice overall performer. Very audible hum, though, the last time I tried it (could be the tube).

 I have a GE 6080 on tap, as well as JAN RCA 6AS7G. Have extras of the NOS RCA 6080, used Sylvania 6SN7GTB and used RCA GT, if you are interested. 

 BTW, I listen with the UE Super.fi 5 Pro. They are sounding great on the 336i with the Sylvania GTB! After about 50 hours, the 336i is really opening up, too. What used to sound congested and glary is starting to separate, open up, smooth out and resolve. The NOS RCA 6080 took about 10-15 hours to really start showing its stuff, too. The Sylvania/RCA pairing is complimentary, I think, giving the listener a nice blend of their repsective strengths.

 Have a host of extra 6SN7 pairs: Westinghouse, Russian Analogue, RCA GTB, GE GTB, etc., that can be broken up into singles for interested 336i owners. My major regret is having sold my Mullard CV-181 (when I sold my MPX3), along with Sylvania 6SN7WGT (metal base), RCA Greyglass, Sylvania Bad Boy and Ken-Rad VT-231. : ) Oh, well . . . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am groovin' with the common man's 6SN7's for the time being.


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## pentagonwizard

I am new to the darkvoice club. It will arrive shortly and I will use it with k501s. I'm wondering about tubes. I'm planning on buying some rca grey glass 6sn7gt tubes on ebay. What is your current combo? What are some of your favorites that you've tried and that would work with my combo? And finally, what are your sources for buying them?


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## pataburd

Dear Mr. Wizard,

 Like so much else in the world of audiophilia, it's subjective and a matter of individual taste. From what I've read on the Darkvoice threads, talked about with other Darkvoice 336i users, and learned experimentally, the RCA 6SN7GT grey glass (with a common street price of $40-$50 NOS) seem to consistently garner top-rankings. Aside from, or rather alongside, the quest for optimal synergy, there's a lot of trial-and-error, getting to know how certain tube "families" (e.g. RCA, Sylvania, Tung-Sol) sound, getting to know what your gear delivers and, finally, getting to know the kind of sound you like best. For me, it's always more fun "along the way" rather than arriving at, as are all too often, our fickle endpoints.

 For me, the RCA "house sound" is rich and tonal, but can be a little tubby in the bass. Sylvanias tend to be clear, neutral, airy and extended, with a controlled bottom end. GEs are nicely balanced and even through the sound spectrum, solid performers, but with nothing jaw dropping along the way. When you get the top-ranked NOS (and appreciably more expensive) RCAs, Sylvanias, Tung-Sols, etc., you get the best, respective house sound. I usually split my rear and front tubes between a rich, warm RCA and a clean, detailed Sylvania. That way you exploit the best of both worlds and enjoy the additive strengths of the tubes.

 I have a decided preference for the openness and detail of Sylvanias, but like the lush midrange of RCAs, too. Put the two together and you get a nice, hybridized dose of both.

 So far, using "common man" tubes (read: can be gotten for less than $20 apiece), I've really liked the following:

 Front, Rear
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB, RCA 6080
 Sylvania 6SN7WGT, JAN RCA black plate 6AS7G
 GE 6SN7GTA, RCA grey plate 6AS7G
 RCA 6SN7GT, GE 6080 or Sylvania 6AS7G

 With four optional fronts and 4 optional rears, you get 4x4=16 unique combinations. While you may not like every one of them, you'll have a lot of fun and gain a lot of knowledge en route to chosing the best one or two.

 I love getting budget tubes to sound great in a budget amp.

 Meanwhile, I have a Sylvania (true) chrome dome on order, and am scouring the countryside for the mythical Bendix 6080.

 Look online: e-Bay, Audiogon, tube dealers. Be patient--especially on e-Bay, and you can often land a good deal.


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## pataburd

With the DT880s there is zero hum. Ditto for the HD580s. The Super.fi 5 Pros are very low impedance and sensitive, not a good match for the Darkvoice. (Although, once you get past the slight hum/whine, they still sound good--just not well impedance-matched with the 336i.)

 Postscript: I've taken the HeadFive/UE Super.fi 5 Pros home, and set up a system with them, the Panasonic S47 DVD player, Bizzy Bee Fro-Zen ICs, and Virtual Mode Clear Power AC conditioners. Am hunting down some Asylum power cords, or considering building some cords from NeoTech OCC copper. Fantastic for late night music listening and/or movie viewing!


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## pataburd

(1) Try an RCA black plate 6AS7G in the back, and National Union 6SN7GT in the front: smooth, nimble, nice sense of space and decent bass. 

 (2) Also, try the RCA gray plate 6AS7G in the back and the GE 6SN7GTA in the front. Wow! Talk about smoothness, air! Highs simply shimmer, and the midrange is warm and moist. Bass suffers a bit (it's loose and diffuse), but who cares? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (3) Try the Sylvania 6AS7G in the back. This tube has paired well with just about every 6SN7 I've had an hand: RCA GT/GTB, Sylvania GTB/WGT, GE GTA/GTB, Westinghouse GTB, National Union GT, etc.: a clean, detailed presentation with pinpoint imaging, just what I like about the Sylvania "house sound"! 

 (4) En route: Tung-Sol 6AS7G and Sylvania 6SN7 (true) "chrome dome." Also, reportedly a Fitz favorite, the Svetlana ECC-230 (rear) is on its way from Lithuania.


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## ysl

got my RCA 6sn7gtb & RCA 6as7g from Fitz this week. I noticed the bass is smoother. Thanks Fitz.


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## arielext

I got some new tubes last week
 - GE 6sn7: nice overall performer, nothing too fancy though.
 - EH 6sn7EH: cheap new Russian tube, with a good overall sound. Ordered two of them and one has a slight hum, the other is dead silent.
 So far my favorite combination is
 - sylvania jan 6sn7gt with a philips jan 6080wc


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## pataburd

Got a pair of Svetlana 6H13C from Lithuania the other day. Put the 6H13C in the rear, with the Ken-Rad VT-231 in the front: clean, expansive, extended, w/deep, foundational, tight bass, delicate highs, "easy" mids and shimmering transients--the most detailed and "musically balanced" presentation I've heard from the Darkvoice 336i so far. 

 Of course the DT880s very faithfully passed on the pleasing sound, and deserve special mention. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus, this is the first time I've listened to the Darkvoice in a few weeks; just swapped out the G&W T2.6F. The 336i is definitely a "very sparkly," musical amp, but with a welcome, neutral balance. Darkvoice, I missed you! Svetlana, you're very welcome to stay!


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## swt61

The Kenrad Black glass vt231 helped turn my K340's into great classic rock headphones. With the deep, controlled bass I get from it and my Zapfiltered Zhaolu I'm wearing the K340's almost all the time. Great with blues too, but when I listen to jazz or great female vocals the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT That I got from Fitz is incredible! Diana Krall and K.D. Lang should hear themselves with this tube.


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## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Kenrad Black glass vt231 helped turn my K340's into great classic rock headphones. With the deep, controlled bass I get from it and my Zapfiltered Zhaolu I'm wearing the K340's almost all the time. Great with blues too, but when I listen to jazz or great female vocals the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT That I got from Fitz is incredible! Diana Krall and K.D. Lang should hear themselves with this tube._

 

swt61,

 May I respectfully ask what you use for a rear tube w/the Ken-Rad VT231 black glass? What rear tubes have you tried? SuperPredator has reported using the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT and RCA 6AS7G gray plate to marvelous effect!

 Alas, I've never heard the famed Tung-Sol "round plate," and seem to surrender any ready cash for good Sylvanias instead. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PatABurd


----------



## swt61

I go back and forth between a Raytheon 6080 and a Sovtek 6AS7G. Not a really big difference between those 2 power tubes to my ears. I haven't tried any others yet. The Tung-Sol round plate is a bit pricey, but it's just incredibly lush sounding. I was lucky to get mine from Fitz at an extremely good price. You gotta love that guy!


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Hey guys, this amp sounds interesting.

 Is there a website of theirs that i can check out?

 TIA.


----------



## KT88

Not as far as I know, what info would you like to know? I think it would be better to open a new thread about it.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Well, actually, never mind. If it costs $270 and then $60 in SHIPPING to get it over to the US, I'm better off saving up for a "M" Hornet.

 Thanks for the concern though.


----------



## jigster

Would the 6336B tubes fit in where the 6AS7 is? Can this tube be used?


----------



## PFKMan23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jigster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the 6336B tubes fit in where the 6AS7 is? Can this tube be used?_

 

I would make sure your transformer can handle that as the 6080 draws 2.75A of heater current and the 6as7 draws 2.5A whereas the 6336 draws 4.75A (and the 6528 draws 5A). That's my major consideration.


----------



## jigster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PFKMan23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would make sure your transformer can handle that as the 6080 draws 2.75A of heater current and the 6as7 draws 2.5A whereas the 6336 draws 4.75A (and the 6528 draws 5A). That's my major consideration._

 

Thanks for the quick response! I was actually asking in context of the Darkvoice... but I got a feeling it cant. But those tubes do look wicked.


----------



## PFKMan23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jigster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the quick response! I was actually asking in context of the Darkvoice... but I got a feeling it cant. But those tubes do look wicked._

 

Honestly it doesn't matter if it's a Darkvoice/SP/Zana Deux, any tube amp has a transformer which has a rating of X amount of amps that it can draw. If you put in a tube that draws too much heater current you can fry the resistors or/and take out the transformer. So while the pin out may be the same, you need to be mindful of that. My view is until you can find the specs of the transformer, confirm that it is safe and that it fits, I'd stay away.


----------



## jigster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PFKMan23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Honestly it doesn't matter if it's a Darkvoice/SP/Zana Deux, any tube amp has a transformer which has a rating of X amount of amps that it can draw. If you put in a tube that draws too much heater current you can fry the resistors or/and take out the transformer. So while the pin out may be the same, you need to be mindful of that. My view is until you can find the specs of the transformer, confirm that it is safe and that it fits, I'd stay away._

 

How do i check? My DV doesnt have a manual.


----------



## sacd lover

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jigster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do i check? My DV doesnt have a manual._

 

I highly doubt the amp can use the 6336/6528. The transformer requirements are much tougher. You are doubling what is a high heater current draw to begin with. Plus, some of the other parts may not be up to handling all the additional current and the case may not be able to dissipate all the extra heat. I would confirm if you can use the 6336/6528 with the manufacturer before I tried these tubes. Remember, a single 6528 is equal to two 6as7/6080's.


----------



## keanej6

so from i've read this amp accepts 6SN7 type tubes in the front and 6AS7 types in the back. I'm very new to the world of tubes but i've done some reading/research to become more familiar with them. from what i understand the 6AS7 tubes are the 'winged' tubes that bulge out in the middle, but from other people's pics i see that many people use different shaped tubes. does the shape have anything to do with the type of tube or are all the tubes i'm seeing still 6AS7 types? i'm pretty sure that's not the case. 

 anyways can you tell me which tubes are compatible with this amp so i can begin tuberolling without the worry of blowing it up. or direct me to a thread/resource i could've missed to answer my question. thanks.


----------



## Mazuki

The winged tubes are 6AS7s and the straight ones are 6080. They are equivalent.


----------



## Fitz

The "winged" tubes are called coke bottle tubes, and those are regular 6AS7s. The straight bottles are usually a 6080, but GE made a straight bottle 6AS7 too (the 6AS7GA). There's also the Russian 6H13C / 6N13S that can be used as well, which has a slightly different curvature on the glass than a normal 6AS7. All of them can be used interchangeably in the Darkvoice.


----------



## keanej6

thank you for the information, sirs.

 i'm having a hard time finding much information/selection of 6080 tubes. 
 right now i'm using thetubestore.com as it easiest for me to look up things and there are pics of most of the tubes. are there better resources for a tube noob?


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

With Singlepower tube adapters you can use quite a few tubes in the front position . I recently tried a NU 7n7 grey glass (thanks to Earl) with the loctal adapter and it sounded great. In addition, I rolled a Japanese Raytheon 6cg7 with the ECC2 adapter and it sounded good. I have some Mazda/Brimar 6cg7s on the way to try. I also tried a 12ax7 with the ECC adapter but it had too much gain and hummed bad. Maybe a 12au7 would work better?

 Happy Tube Rolling!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keanej6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so from i've read this amp accepts 6SN7 type tubes in the front and 6AS7 types in the back. I'm very new to the world of tubes but i've done some reading/research to become more familiar with them. from what i understand the 6AS7 tubes are the 'winged' tubes that bulge out in the middle, but from other people's pics i see that many people use different shaped tubes. does the shape have anything to do with the type of tube or are all the tubes i'm seeing still 6AS7 types? i'm pretty sure that's not the case. 

 anyways can you tell me which tubes are compatible with this amp so i can begin tuberolling without the worry of blowing it up. or direct me to a thread/resource i could've missed to answer my question. thanks._


----------



## Dominat0r

Hey, glad i found this thread....been reading through trying to get some ideas. 

 Right now im using a RCA 6SN7GTB and a GE 6080 (i think its a 6AS7G) in the back. 

 This seems like a really nice combo with my 580s. 

 Anyone got any recommendations for some other tubes?


----------



## KT88

Grom what I remember the 580's have very slow bass and lack detail (to my ears atleast) the RCA 6SN7GTB is a good tube (not the best, but its also very cheap), the back tube is a bit problematic in terms of detail with the 580's. Try getting a RCA 6080 or if you have the $ one of the british tubes, from what I remember from the brief listen I gave to these, they are more detailed.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KT88* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grom what I remember the 580's have very slow bass and lack detail (to my ears atleast) the RCA 6SN7GTB is a good tube (not the best, but its also very cheap), the back tube is a bit problematic in terms of detail with the 580's. Try getting a RCA 6080 or if you have the $ one of the british tubes, from what I remember from the brief listen I gave to these, they are more detailed._

 

What british tubes were you referring to if you dont mine me asking?

 i was hearing Bendix too, said to be very expensive.

 Just wondering my options....never hurts to try new things. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





(omg just noticed we have a 580 smile icon, KICK*****)


----------



## KT88

Indeed it's always good to try many tubes. I have tried about 20 kinds of 6SN7's so far, and still going strong


----------



## pataburd

An RCA 6AS7G gray plate in the rear brings ease, smoothness and expansiveness to the DarkVoice--not as "hard" or "tight" sounding as the GE, and a nice, "relaxing" compliment to 6SN7GTB front tubes. The Svetlana 6H13C and Sylvania 6AS7G are some great rear tubes to have on hand, too: very clean, detailed and neutral.

 The RCA 6AS7G gray plate rear/Westinghouse (similar to GE) 6SN7GTB front gives a nice, full airy sound with decent bass. 

 Remember, the number of 6AS7 tubes on hand x the number of 6SN7 tubes on hand = the total number of rear/front combinations possible with the 336i. For example, 7 different rears and 12 different fronts gives you 84 unique combinations. Wow, this is what I like about the DarkVoice: it's so versatile for relatively minimal expenditures on tubes!


----------



## pataburd

JAN-CRC/RCA 6AS7G black plate in the rear, with the 1952 Sylvania "Bad Boy" up front is a terrific combination. Very dynamic and detailed, with deep, powerful bass. Bob James' "Hi-Fi" SACD (a compilation of his more popular compositions) sounds super through the 336i and Beyer DT880's. [Just got some new PS Audio XStream power cords, too: w/silver coated, solid core copper conductors. They've brought some nice added detail, frequency extension and sense of space to the sound (although sacrificing just a tad of mid/bass weight and warmth), compared with the DIY, ErnieM cords I was using before.] Want to try the RCA 6AS7G gray plate, or possibly the Svetlana 6H13C, in the rear before the end of the day. 

 FYI, there's a British dealer on e-Bay selling NOS Mullard 6080's (for about $25USD/shipped). You bet I'd like to try one. The two, other 6080's I've tried so far (GE and RCA) tend to sound a bit overly "coiled" and either unresolving or unopen with the DarkVoice (although the GE6080/Sylvania 6SN7GTB sounded very nice, as I recall). If these Mullard 6080 tubes offer that rich, pure and tonally textured sound that other Mullards are known for, they're certainly worth a go-round with the 336i!

 One "downside" to owning a nice tube amp like the DarkVoice is that you can spend more on tubes than you spent on the amp. So far, I've spent probably half the purchase price of the 336i on tubes. But, it's been a fun, educational and rewarding experience all-tallied.


----------



## pataburd

Just swapped out the JAN-CRC/RCA 6AS7G black plate in the rear with the *gray* plate version. Unquestionably, the gray plate is my favorite of the two. Very smooth, expansive, "easy"-sounding but still very resolving. With the Sylvania "Bad Boy" up front, the DarkVoice sound is very authoritative. The RCA gray plate adds a nice organic tonality and synergy to the music. This is certainly, so far, the _best_ of both worlds (i.e. RCA and Sylvania). 

 My favorite (Rear/Front) combinations so far, in order of preference:
 (1) RCA 6AS7G gray plate/Sylvania Bad Boy
 (2) Svetlana 6H13C/GE 6SN7GTA
 (3) RCA 6AS7G gray plate/GE 6SN7GTB (w/transverse top filament)
 (4) Sylvania 6AS7G/RCA 6SN7GT
 (5) GE 6080/Sylvania 6SN7GTB.

 Would yet like to order the Mullard 6080 and hear how the DarkVoice responds. Also have the Sony MDR-SA5000 on deck, and hopefully at bat by early next week. Can't wait to hear the 336i and SA5000 together! So far, the DT880 have bested the HD580 and K501 (the latter two were sold to help finance the SA5000).


----------



## Dominat0r

I really like the RCA GTB and RCA 6AS7G combo...been listing to that...however pata was nice enough to send me a GE 6SN7GTB which im going to try later..

 So far i have 4 tubes (2 front and 2 rear) + the stocks

 Btw, thanks Pataburd for the tubes =)


----------



## Dominat0r

Just checking out the GE and the RCA rear....really nice combo...very nice mellow laid back sound.


----------



## pataburd

Glad you like the GE 6SN7GTB up front, Mr. HighLife. The GE's are very versatile and consistent performers up front. The RCA 6AS7G gray plate has wrought the most apparent changes in the rear: very smooth and expansive compared to every other rear tube I've tried to date, and very different from its 6AS7G black plate cousin. The Sylvania 6AS7G is probably the cleanest and most balanced rear tube I've tried so far, with the Svetlana 6H13C following a close second. The GE 6080 and the RCA 6080 provide a bit leaner and tighter sound: I like the GE 6080 (rear)/Sylvania 6SN7GTB combination; the GE provides good dynamics and controlled bass in this application. 

 The Svetlana 6H13C/Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boy" combination has been my favorite pairing so far.

 Right now, I am waiting for a Mullard 6080 from England. : )

 HighLife, you're really racking up the posts! Your reply rate on Head-Fi has surpassed mine by about a factor of three. Don't forget to devote ample time to your studies! : )


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad you like the GE 6SN7GTB up front, Mr. HighLife. The GE's are very versatile and consistent performers up front. The RCA 6AS7G gray plate has wrought the most apparent changes in the rear: very smooth and expansive compared to every other rear tube I've tried to date, and very different from its 6AS7G black plate cousin. The Sylvania 6AS7G is probably the cleanest and most balanced rear tube I've tried so far, with the Svetlana 6H13C following a close second. The GE 6080 and the RCA 6080 provide a bit leaner and tighter sound: I like the GE 6080 (rear)/Sylvania 6SN7GTB combination; the GE provides good dynamics and controlled bass in this application. 

 The Svetlana 6H13C/Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boy" combination has been my favorite pairing so far.

 Right now, I am waiting for a Mullard 6080 from England. : )

 HighLife, you're really racking up the posts! Your reply rate on Head-Fi has surpassed mine by about a factor of three. Don't forget to devote ample time to your studies! : )_

 

AHAH, i know right, i cant stay away from the boards hahaaha....

 thanks a ton for the tubes, having a great time testing them out myself. 

 More thoughts to come when i try my RCA 6080 in the back the GE 6SN7GTB in the front.


----------



## Dominat0r

BTW, whats the " Bad boy " ?


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

AFIAK, that term refers to a Sylvania 6SN7GT with 1952 vintage and has green writing that has a bottom getter and a clear top. Here is a pic of one from the photo galleries: http://photo.head-fi.org/showphoto.p...o=4752&cat=575 .

 Happy Listening!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, whats the " Bad boy " ?_


----------



## pataburd

From Brent Jessie's Website:

 "6SN7GT / G: 
 This is the original version of this tube. It may be found in all three sizes of glass envelope. The Sylvania Tall Boy types have two triangular shaped plates facing each other mounted high in the tube, with either a top or bottom getter. Later GT versions were in a medium glass envelope with a green label and 3-holed, T-shaped blackplates with bottom getter, sometimes called the "Bad Boy" 6SN7, and are sought after for their excellent sonics. The Bad Boy tubes are virtually identical to the military VT-231 from the early 1950s and are currently a less expensive alternative, but this could change as the Bad Boy fad catches on!"


----------



## toanaldino

can anyone suggest which tubes will go well with the W1000? 

 To improve/maximize the sound stage


----------



## pataburd

toanaldino,

 The RCA 6AS7G gray plate--make sure it's the gray plate--will expand the soundstage more than any other rear tube I've tried to date (including the RCA 6AS7G black plate, Sylvania 6AS7G, and RCA, GE or Mullard 6080). Bass control and extension suffer somewhat, although the positive, soundstaging elements of the RCA 6AS7G gray plate more than offset these relatively minor losses. Up front, the Sylvania 6SN7GT will open up and focus the soundstage, too, as well as provide some of the bass extension and control sacrificed as-per the RCA 6AS7G. SuperPredator has had excellent results pairing the (expensive) Tung-Sol 6SN7GT round plate with the RCA 6AS7G gray plate.

 My findings are based on experience w/the ATH-A900LTD.

 PatABurd


----------



## toanaldino

thanks Pataburd,

 most of the RCA 6AS7G on ebay are black plate, where can you I find the grey ones?


----------



## pataburd

Toanaldino,

 With patience and perseverance on ebay, you can find the RCA 6AS7G grey plate. NOS usually go for about $15-$20USD apiece +shipping.

 PatABurd


----------



## pataburd

There is a pair of NOS, 6AS7G grey plates for $29.50 USD shipped, as we speak!


----------



## Ooztuncer

My 336i is on its way from France and i have couple of questions. 

 I pm'ed pataburd couple of times but also wanted to write here for some additional questions.

 I will use 336i for my HD650's and looking for tubes to increase the treble energy and detail, but at the same time open the soundstage.

 After my research, I am thinking to use Sylvania 6ASN7GT as the front tube. However, I have several options for rear:

 1) 6AS7G gray plate (from RCA or Sylvania)
 2) 5998 Tungsol gray plate (or rebranded tungsol)
 3) 6080WB Bendix or Tungsol or Sylvania
 4) 7236 Cetron
 5) 421A Western Electronics

 Any experience with above combo's? Which one is most suitable for my target? Any other combo offerings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks...


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ooztuncer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 336i is on its way from France and i have couple of questions. 

 I pm'ed pataburd couple of times but also wanted to write here for some additional questions.

 I will use 336i for my HD650's and looking for tubes to increase the treble energy and detail, but at the same time opens the soundstage.

 After my research, I am thinking to use Sylvania 6ASN7GT as the front tube. However, I have several options for rear:

 1) 6AS7G gray plate (from RCA or Sylvania)
 2) 5998 Tungsol gray plate (or rebranded tungsol)
 3) 6080WB Bendix or Tungsol or Sylvania
 4) 7236 Cetron
 5) 421A Western Electronics

 Any experience with above combo's? Which one is most suitable for my target? Any other combo offerings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks..._

 

I don't have any experience with the Sylvania and HD650, but I have used the Sylvania with other cans and I think this would make a decent pairing. I used a Tung-Sol 6SN7 round plate/black glass with the HD650 and it sounded pretty incredible. The 650 doesn't necessarily need the bass this tube provides (actually it really doesn't), but it might go some ways towards fleshing it out. Combined with the RCA 6AS7G gray I managed to score the best sound stage the Darkvoice has showed me yet.

 I think you are in for a treat no matter what tubes you use. So far my favorite two cans with the Darkvoice have been the HD650 and HF-1. For reference, I tried the HD580, DT880, DT250-80, W5000, W2002, modded K340 and probably some others. The Darkvoice drives the K340 very well, but I think it goes several steps further by fully commanding and synergizing with the HD650 and HF-1. Best of luck!


----------



## Ooztuncer

thanks predator for the response.

 I went ahead and bought a RCA NOS 6AS7G gray plate from tube world. I might have paid some extra $$ ($26 including shipping for one tube) but wanted to get it as soon as possible (there were none on ebay). 

 I will be eagerly waiting to hear the sylvania 6SN7GT (or GE 6SN7GT) + rca 6AS7G gray plate combo on my HD650's!


----------



## Mrvile

Hey fellow Darkvoicers,

 I got a Sylvania 6SN7GTB in the mail today (thanks Steve!) and finally tried a little tube rolling for myself. I didn't really know what to expect and to be honest, I didn't really expect that big a difference. But as soon as I turned on my favorite song I was blown away. The first thing I noticed was that the bass sounded _great_, tightened up, losing a lot of the unwanted midbass boominess and gaining some deeper bass impact and extension. This adds a lot of texture to the bass, which used to sound a little muddy but now I can almost taste it. The mids gained some more texture and don't sound as smooth anymore, but it still sounds fine. The highs are given a slight bit more detail but don't stand out like I expected (which is a good thing). The next thing I noticed was the soundstage - everything is a bit wider and more pronounced, sound placement is more pinpoint and isn't as congested anymore.

 Overall it's a great tube for opening up the sound of the amp (and my HD580) and I think I'm falling in love with the Sylvania house sound.

 Oh but one thing I forgot to mention - the tube actually has a very audible hum when the volume is turned all the way down, and I can still hear the hum with some of my quieter songs. Yes, this can be a problem, so if anyone has any ideas please let me know.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh but one thing I forgot to mention - the tube actually has a very audible hum when the volume is turned all the way down, and I can still hear the hum with some of my quieter songs. Yes, this can be a problem, so if anyone has any ideas please let me know._

 

I get some very noticeable hum with certain (especially rear) tubes, but only with lower impedance headphones (HF-1, W5000, W2002). With other headphones (HD650 included) I really didn't get any hum at all. I won't say they were dead silent, because honestly I am not sure, but there was no loud hum and no low level hum apparent with quieter passages. Even the W100 seems to do pretty well as far as hum with the Darkvoice (better than the other ATs I've tried with hummier tubes).

 I do have a Sylvania GT (A? B I think), and as far as I can tell it's very quiet. I'll fire it up this weekend and see what I hear.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey fellow Darkvoicers,

 I got a Sylvania 3SN7GTB in the mail today (thanks Steve!) and finally tried a little tube rolling for myself. I didn't really know what to expect and to be honest, I didn't really expect that big a difference. But as soon as I turned on my favorite song I was blown away. The first thing I noticed was that the bass sounded great, tightened up, losing a lot of the unwanted midbass boominess and gaining some deeper bass impact and extension. This adds a lot of texture to the bass, which used to sound a little muddy but now I can almost taste it. The mids gained some more texture and don't sound as smooth anymore, but it still sounds fine. The highs are given a slight bit more detail but don't stand out like I expected (which is a good thing). The next thing I noticed was the soundstage - everything is a bit wider and more pronounced, sound placement is more pinpoint and isn't as congested anymore.

 Overall it's a great tube for opening up the sound of the amp (and my HD580) and I think I'm falling in love with the Sylvania house sound.

 Oh but one thing I forgot to mention - the tube actually has a very audible hum when the volume is turned all the way down, and I can still hear the hum with some of my quieter songs. Yes, this can be a problem, so if anyone has any ideas please let me know._

 

Just so nobody wonders where I found an unheard of 3SN7GTB, let me state what most of you no doubt figured out, that it's a 6SN7GTB.

 MrVile give that tube a little time to settle in before you set out to solve the hum, it may disapear on it's own. My amps now have Fitz' "tube hum be gone mod", but I have no idea how it works. Ask Fitz about any options that may work for you. Also you may want to PM warrior05, as I sent him the other matching Sylvania. See if he has the same problem.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just so nobody wonders where I found an unheard of 3SN7GTB, let me state what most of you no doubt figured out, that it's a 6SN7GTB.

 MrVile give that tube a little time to settle in before you set out to solve the hum, it may disapear on it's own. My amps now have Fitz' "tube hum be gone mod", but I have no idea how it works. Ask Fitz about any options that may work for you. Also you may want to PM warrior05, as I sent him the other matching Sylvania. See if he has the same problem._

 

Ahh...fixed.

 Thus far I've just been ignoring the hum, I'll let it run for a couple days and see what happens.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh...fixed.

 Thus far I've just been ignoring the hum, I'll let it run for a couple days and see what happens._

 

It will usually disapear within hours if it's going to disapear at all.


----------



## Mrvile

I seemed to have fixed most of the humming. First, I wiggled the tube around to try to get a better fit (bad tube fit=humming has been a problem for me in the past). Then I hooked up the EQ, since I was running without the EQ before so I could get accurate impressions. Now the humming has died down a LOT, although I can still hear it with nothing playing, I have to listen very hard for it. Once there's music though, I can't hear it one bit.

 I was going to buy the Sylvania 6AS7G I saw on ebay yesterday but it seems to have been sold. Now the only 6AS7's that I can see is one RCA and a bunch of Svetlana's...I was thinking about the RCA but now I have a feeling I might like the Svetlana a bit better. Any suggestions? Pataburd, you seem to like the Sylvania/Svetlana combo quite a bit, do you have any comments?

 I'd like to make a purchase by tonight, in case all of it is sold by tomorrow


----------



## Mrvile

Ahh screw you guys I went ahead and bought the Svetlanas...I'll let you guys know how they sound when I get them.


----------



## Mrvile

Ok got the Svetlanas today.

 First let's get the bad news out of the way. One of the tubes was broken. There was a little piece of I don't know what rattling around inside, and when I tested it it popped and sparked and scared the hell out of me. I contacted the seller about this, we'll see how he follows through.

 Fortunately, the second tube works, so I do have some impressions. The Svetlana is actually a good bit warmer than the stock tube, which balances nicely with the Sylvania up front. The big thing I noticed was, again, the bass. The Svetlana goes very, very deep, stays tight, and has a lot of impact - which is a good thing. The soundstage continues to grow as I add more aftermarket tubes which also brings about a perceived clarity that doesn't involve an alteration in the tonality, for example it's not brighter or faster. The tube has a bit more emphasis in the lower midrange, though the highs still stand out without being shrill or harsh.

 Overall a good tube. I really want to try more tubes but my Paypal account is running low...hmm, I know there's something around the house I can sell... (curse you Head-Fi!!)


----------



## Fitz

^ See, I was not crazy when I used to say the inexpensive Svetlana is a good tube.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ See, I was not crazy when I used to say the inexpensive Svetlana is a good tube._

 

That particular statement may have been validated, but your sanity is still very much in question. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad to see you're enjoying the amp more now that you've got some good tubes MrVile. Now you see what I meant about the stock tubes.


----------



## Mrvile

Update: They refunded half my total payment, including shipping. Great service


----------



## Superpredator

Hmm. I was looking at some of those Svetlanas, and I want. Just did my taxes though. There's a lot of audio equipment I can legitimately write off, but tubes, I'm sad to say, don't quite qualify. You have no idea how long I stared at the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT last night.


----------



## Ooztuncer

HOhoho, 336i is here after a 15 days waiting game. I didn't put the stock tubes but rather placed my sylvania 6SN7GT and Westinghouse (rebranded RCA) 6AS7G gray plate - thanks to this thread! Burning for last 4 hours and it only gets better while driving my HD650's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My western electric 421A is on its way and I am really curious what that big boy adds into this already great sounded amp...


 edit: i never thought that megadeth will sound this good on the hd650!


----------



## gjkphd

Just purchased a Darkvoice 336i through E-Bay seller Jasmine Chine and wanted to inform all that it was a fine experience. The price was quite good and it came from China to Miami in 3 days. Now through the advice of this thread I just ordered a 1960's RCA 6SN7GTB and 6AS7G RCA branded Westinghouse grey plate so things should get really interesting


----------



## LoweArt

I'm patiently waiting from my 336i to arrive knowing that it had left China's Mail despatch centre means not long until it arrives Down Under !

 Already have my RCA tubes ready to roll so to speak ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My biggest fear is getting "Fitz" fever when it does arrive and I spend 
 the following weeks ordering parts to upgrade it. Do I have the will to 
 only change out the volume pot for an ALPS and leave the rest .........


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ooztuncer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edit: i never thought that megadeth will sound this good on the hd650!_

 

Doesn't the 336i do some crazy things for the HD650?


----------



## laxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LoweArt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm patiently waiting from my 336i to arrive knowing that it had left China's Mail despatch centre means not long until it arrives Down Under !

 Already have my RCA tubes ready to roll so to speak ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My biggest fear is getting "Fitz" fever when it does arrive and I spend 
 the following weeks ordering parts to upgrade it. Do I have the will to 
 only change out the volume pot for an ALPS and leave the rest ........._

 

Yea, I really want to change out the pot on my 332. =T


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LoweArt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm patiently waiting from my 336i to arrive knowing that it had left China's Mail despatch centre means not long until it arrives Down Under !

 Already have my RCA tubes ready to roll so to speak ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My biggest fear is getting "Fitz" fever when it does arrive and I spend 
 the following weeks ordering parts to upgrade it. Do I have the will to 
 only change out the volume pot for an ALPS and leave the rest ........._

 

I wasn't aware that Fitz does any mods to the 336i.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gjkphd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just purchased a Darkvoice 336i through E-Bay seller Jasmine Chine and wanted to inform all that it was a fine experience. The price was quite good and it came from China to Miami in 3 days. Now through the advice of this thread I just ordered a 1960's RCA 6SN7GTB and 6AS7G RCA branded Westinghouse grey plate so things should get really interesting_

 

Doubling up on RCA's, should be pretty interesting. I've wanted to double up on Sylvanias for a while now but I can't see to find any more Sylvania 6AS7G's on ebay, I saw one about a week ago but it was sold the next morning (otherwise it would be in my amp right now).


----------



## andrewrocks

just got my 336i in from jasmine chime on ebay as well, i must say A+ service!

 anyhow, i've read through this thread... it seems no one has tuberolled this amp with the k701s? What tubes would be best for these cans?


----------



## Mrvile

Bah, I just spent $20 on a Sylvania 6AS7G from the tubestore. A bit more than I was prepared to pay but I was tired of waiting for another one to appear on eBay so I just pulled the trigger.

 Needless to say I can't wait to hear it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tubes are much more addictive than headphones IMO.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrewrocks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got my 336i in from jasmine chime on ebay as well, i must say A+ service!

 anyhow, i've read through this thread... it seems no one has tuberolled this amp with the k701s? What tubes would be best for these cans?_

 

Asr's K701 should be en route to me after April 30. I just got dampers in preparation, and I'll probably break out all my tubes for a rolling fest. Hopefully I'll have the answer soon.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah, I just spent $20 on a Sylvania 6AS7G from the tubestore. A bit more than I was prepared to pay but I was tired of waiting for another one to appear on eBay so I just pulled the trigger.

 Needless to say I can't wait to hear it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tubes are much more addictive than headphones IMO._

 

Are you diggity down with that Svetlana? I've spent so damn much in the last month; all that's left in the budget is enough for a glass toslink or some Svetlanas. Decisions decisions.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you diggity down with that Svetlana? I've spent so damn much in the last month; all that's left in the budget is enough for a glass toslink or some Svetlanas. Decisions decisions._

 

The Svetlana is a nice little tube, definitely better than the stock 6AS7 IMO, but I'm going to have to wait for the Sylvania to arrive to do a comparison. You can read the impressions I posted earlier in this thread about the Svetlana.


----------



## Azure

I'm thinking about getting a 336i to tweak the sound a bit to try to tame the SA5000's highs and add a bit more oomph to the bass department. Which budget tubes (<$30) do you guys recommend?


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about getting a 336i to tweak the sound a bit to try to tame the SA5000's highs and add a bit more oomph to the bass department. Which budget tubes (<$30) do you guys recommend?_

 

Most of the tubes mentioned here are pretty cheap.

 6AS7's - RCA, Svetlana, Sylvania, and GE (6080) are all like $12 apiece
 6SN7's - RCA, Sylvania, and GE are all $20-30 each, the Tungsol is like $50 I think.

 However, some of the rarer gray/black plate version of the tubes can go for a lot more. Look around in the thread for general impressions of each of the tubes and various combinations.


----------



## Ooztuncer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Azure* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking about getting a 336i to tweak the sound a bit to try to tame the SA5000's highs and add a bit more oomph to the bass department. Which budget tubes (<$30) do you guys recommend?_

 

For Sa5k, also check out the Bada PH12. My 3910-ph12-sa5k system sounds great! I was trying different tube combo's but finally settled on electro harmonix + 2xraytheons and my lips hit my ears while smiling (sorry listening)...


 Back on-topic > sylvania 6SN7GT + Western Electronic 421A combo sounds damn nice on 336i with my hd650's. if you have a chance, definitely check it out...


----------



## pataburd

I concur with Ooztuncer. In my experience, the Darkvoice 336i was not the best match for the SA5000. I had better success with the G&W T2.6F, another hybrid amp similar to the Bada-PH12.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Svetlana is a nice little tube, definitely better than the stock 6AS7 IMO, but I'm going to have to wait for the Sylvania to arrive to do a comparison. *You can read the impressions I posted earlier in this thread about the Svetlana.*_

 

I did. I just wanted you to tell me what to do.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did. I just wanted you to tell me what to do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, looking at your tube inventory it doesn't look like you have any 6AS7 tubes to complement your collection of 6SN7's. Since you have a couple RCA's, I would probably recommend getting a Sylvania 6AS7 to balance out the sound, but the Sylvanias are a little harder to come by. Pataburd thinks that the Svetlanas are pretty close to Sylvanias...though I can't say anything until I receive my Sylvania in the mail. Svetlanas also tend to be pretty cheap compared to, say, RCAs and Sovteks.


----------



## symbiosis10

sadly although i've enjoyed my 336i very much...funds are a bit tight and the luxuries get to go first 

 if you guys know anyone looking for a 336i..pm me

 it comes with a set of 12 tubes (which includes two pairs) that i used this thread to choose from

 tis a sad day *crys*


----------



## andrewrocks

is ebay the best place to get these tubes from?


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrewrocks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is ebay the best place to get these tubes from?_

 

If you want good prices. You could always go to tubedepot or thetubestore and see what they have in stock (they usually have various brands under "tube replacements," but you have to email them to make sure they have what you want in stock) but you'll still be paying a good amount more than you would on ebay. I spent $20 for a single Sylvania 6AS7G that would've only cost me about $12 on ebay. But on ebay tubes come and go, and a lot of times you have to buy the tubes in pairs or quads, and you can't always trust the shipper to package it securely (I received a broken tube I bought off ebay, though the seller refunded my money). So just shop around, look on ebay of course, but don't be afraid to browse through online retailers too.


----------



## SonicDawg

Wow, it is great to go through the thread again for some great tube recomm. Right now, I am sworn by the RCA black glass and Sylvania Chrome Dome. They work well with my two pairs of phones... But the scary part of tube rolling, *is when you have to get all of them in two, for an unspeakable project that involves two Darkvoice 336i 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, it is great to go through the thread again for some great tube recomm. Right now, I am sworn by the RCA black glass and Sylvania Chrome Dome. They work well with my two pairs of phones... But the scary part of tube rolling, *is when you have to get all of them in two, for an unspeakable project that involves two Darkvoice 336i 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*_

 

I can't tell you how proud I am of you at this moment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're gonna love it! And yeah matched sets of good NOS tubes is a bit of an investment.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, looking at your tube inventory it doesn't look like you have any 6AS7 tubes to complement your collection of 6SN7's. Since you have a couple RCA's, I would probably recommend getting a Sylvania 6AS7 to balance out the sound, but the Sylvanias are a little harder to come by. Pataburd thinks that the Svetlanas are pretty close to Sylvanias...though I can't say anything until I receive my Sylvania in the mail. Svetlanas also tend to be pretty cheap compared to, say, RCAs and Sovteks._

 

I had no idea anyone even looked at my profile to see what tubes I have. What you saw hadn't been updated in many, many months.

 And sorry if I wasn't clear, I wasn't asking for general tube advice (I'm stuck on the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT black glass), I was just asking you to tell me to go ahead and get the Svetlana.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had no idea anyone even looked at my profile to see what tubes I have. What you saw hadn't been updated in many, many months.

 And sorry if I wasn't clear, I wasn't asking for general tube advice (I'm stuck on the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT black glass), I was just asking you to tell me to go ahead and get the Svetlana._

 






 Miscommunication x2.

 You might as well go ahead and get the Svetlana, one only cost me like $12 and who doesn't want more tubes??


----------



## Mrvile

Alright, the Sylvania arrived yesterday, but I didn't have much time to really listen to it until around midnight. So here goes...

 Obviously the 6AS7G boasts that Sylvania house sound, so basically a very detailed yet refined sound, tight and deep bass with some kick behind it, and very precise imaging and soundstage. The Sylvania-on-Sylvania combo is like soundstage heaven, which makes everything sound much more detailed and full. I'm loving this combo!

 Oh and a weird thing...the Sylvania arrived just like my broken Svetlana came. There was a little chip of glass floating around inside the tube. I was pretty disappointed and was afraid it wasn't going to work but it ended up working fine (yeah, I'm dumb enough to put another broken tube into my amp). I let it burn in for a couple hours and nothing has exploded yet. There is slight hum in both channels, similar to the hum of the Sylvania 6SN7 when I first got it, but hopefully it will go away with use.


----------



## Fitz

Are you sure it's actually a chip of glass inside the tube itself? Just making a rattling noise is not an indicator of anything actually broken, it could just as well be some of the glue that attaches the tube to the base that's flaked off.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you sure it's actually a chip of glass inside the tube itself? Just making a rattling noise is not an indicator of anything actually broken, it could just as well be some of the glue that attaches the tube to the base that's flaked off._

 

It definitely looks like a little piece of glass (the size of maybe a grain of rice) and my broken Svetlana had the exact same piece, so I was just sort of worried.


----------



## nalth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Asr's K701 should be en route to me after April 30. I just got dampers in preparation, and I'll probably break out all my tubes for a rolling fest. Hopefully I'll have the answer soon._

 

Nice! Can't wait to hear about your impressions!
 I was waiting for this thread to have more info on good tubes to go with the K701's.


----------



## jondl

Hey, I just ordered a 336i and have been reading through this thread. Can anyone recommend me some tubes for my DT880s? I'm hoping to bring out the low-end, tighten up the bass, and tame the 880s treble. Anything that sounds like it may work? Thanks!


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jondl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I just ordered a 336i and have been reading through this thread. Can anyone recommend me some tubes for my DT880s? I'm hoping to bring out the low-end, tighten up the bass, and tame the 880s treble. Anything that sounds like it may work? Thanks!_

 

The Kenrad Black glass vt231 does exactly what you're asking for, and sounds beautiful as well. Downside is it's not as cheap as some of the others.

http://www.tubeseller.com/catalog/c2_p1.html

 Scroll down on this next site until you see "misc. brands", it's the first listing in there.

http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6sn7.html


----------



## pataburd

Try the Sylvania 6AS7G, Svetlana 6H13C or GE 6080 in the rear. They're all nicely balanced, tight and clean-sounding rear tubes that will compliment the Ken-Rad VT-231 in the front. 

 You can always try a Sylvania, or National Union, 6SN7GT up front as well. If you can afford the Sylvania "Bad Boy" or the Tung-Sol round plate up front, then you're in for a real treat! 

 BTW: with the DT880--which have clear, extended and never harsh highs, I don't exactly agree that you'd want them "tamed." Rather, I'd want tubes that brought "to the next level" the already excellent quality of the upper end. Also, the bass on the DT880 already is, I think, ample and fairly tight. The sonic signature you're apparently trying to extract from the DT880 already exists, I think, in the Sennheiser HD580/600/650.


----------



## laxx

Sorry to chime in on your thread, but I figured I'd ask here as no one on the 332 thread has changed their volume pot out yet.

 I read you guys recommend the Alps RK27 pot. Does the stock volume knob fit onto the RK27? I'm also assuming the 336i and 332 use the same volume pot/knob design.


----------



## SonicDawg

Has anyone tried the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 EH yet? I hope that they don't hum, I just ordered a pair.


----------



## pataburd

Most, if not all, 336i users report a fairly loud and irrepressible hum w/the EH 6SN7. I've had similar problems with other Russian-made 6SN7-type tubes, too. Your best bet is to go to eBay and buy some NOS American- or European-made 6SN7.


----------



## kg21

just got the Darkvoice 336i today to go along with my AKG K340s and I am in love with this setup but I already added this thread to my favorites ahead of time, gotta love head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just bought 2 front tubes, the RCA 6SN7GT and 6SN7GTB what do you guys recommend for the rear, RCA 6AS7G or Phillips Jan 6080, I like the sound as warm/lush/tubey as possible even if some detail is sacrificed.


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW: with the DT880--which have clear, extended and never harsh highs, I don't exactly agree that you'd want them "tamed." Rather, I'd want tubes that brought "to the next level" the already excellent quality of the upper end. Also, the bass on the DT880 already is, I think, ample and fairly tight. The sonic signature you're apparently trying to extract from the DT880 already exists, I think, in the Sennheiser HD580/600/650._

 

I actually think the opposite...I owned the DT880 for a month then promptly sold it because its highs were too shrill. I would personally avoid Sylvania tubes to use with the DT880 as they have a bit more emphasis on the treble (which is great with Senns).


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kg21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just got the Darkvoice 336i today to go along with my AKG K340s and I am in love with this setup but I already added this thread to my favorites ahead of time, gotta love head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just bought 2 front tubes, the RCA 6SN7GT and 6SN7GTB what do you guys recommend for the rear, RCA 6AS7G or Phillips Jan 6080, I like the sound as warm/lush/tubey as possible even if some detail is sacrificed._

 

If you want more of a "tubey" sound, get the RCA 6AS7G gray plate (make sure the plates are gray). The Mullard 6080 is also a nice choice in this regard.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually think the opposite...I owned the DT880 for a month then promptly sold it because its highs were too shrill. I would personally avoid Sylvania tubes to use with the DT880 as they have a bit more emphasis on the treble (which is great with Senns)._

 

It may be strictly due to listening preferences, but I am frequently puzzled when other Head-Fiers call the highs on the DT880 "shrill," or their bass somehow deficient. When you say "shrill" do you mean "harsh" and/or "grating" on the ears? If so, then that was never my experience with the DT880 over an 8-month period. Nor did I ever feel that the DT880 lacked bass. (I did/do, however, think that the DT880 (2003) lacked lower-to-mid midrange body, which was why I eventually sold mine.)

 With respect to Sylvania tubes, I disagree with your statement, too, that "they have a bit more emphasis in the treble." My impressions of Sylvania tubes are that they tend to be pretty even, balanced and "tight" sounding across the frequency spectrum.

 Well, anyway, I realize that my wife is more sensitive to treble than I am, so maybe I can relate to--although never completely understand--a Head-Fier's wincing at the treble response of the DT880.

 Along another vein: for you, the listener, does affinity for a given headphone consist mainly in wanting to hear (a ) the headphones the way they were voiced by the designer/maker, or (b) the way one's listening tastes dictate?

 If one buys cans, like the DT880, whose sonic signature is known _a priori _ to be primarily extended (or, if you will, slightly "forward" in the treble), then why should he immediately set about to "tame" this sonic trait (which is perhaps the capstone of the cans' design)? Rather, why not exploit it, instead? If every headphone must sound, for example, "Sennheiser-ish" in order suit my listening tastes, then why would I wish to stray outside that (self-imposed) listening constraint, acquire another manufacturer's product, then proceed, for instance, to try to make the DT880 sound like the HD600?

 Too, it might boil down to "brand loyalty" or "preferring a brand name 'house sound'" in league with one's listening preferences. I very much enjoyed my listening time with both the HD600 and the DT880--the latter more than the former : ) --but I enjoyed each with respect to its own, unique set of apparent, sonic design parameters. Personally, I've come to decidedly prefer the Ultrasone Proline 2500, but that doesn't diminish the genuine pleasure I derived from either the HD600 or DT880 when given opportunity to audition each of them at length. The SA5000 were headphones that I learned to like over time; the ATH-A900LTD, on the other hand, were headphones I enjoyed rght off the bat, then subsequently enjoyed less and less. 

 It's often a strange sequence of decisions that gets us from here to there in this funny world of audio-/head-philia. I can't be too sure about myself, either: does my preference for the 2500 exist in its own right (i.e., as a pure element), or is it a compound of all the partial preferences I've developed from my exposure to other headphones antecedent to the 2500? Probably a bit of both, and perhaps more due to the latter than the former--at least for me. 

 This discussion also raises the issue of objectivity versus subjectivity: do I like something for what it is in itself, or for what it is to me?


----------



## warrior05

As to the Sylvania tubes - I put one in my DV and it is a wonderful match with my Raytheon - balanced sound and nice bass presence. Dead quiet too!

 As for the DT880s - or really in regards to treble shrillness: Keep in mind, it probably is more a comment about the listeners preference than the Beyers themselves. For instance, I'm very sensitive to treble so I actually prefer my cans not to extend very high. My DT990s are on the cusp. If they went any higher and emphasized treble anymore, I would not like them nearly as much as I do (they are one of my top 2 cans). I remember the first time I listened to the 880s and I did NOT like them at all. I found their bass presence totally lacking and, as mentioned, I found them shrill. But then at the NYC meet, I heard them paired with a Little Dot II+ and it was much more pleasing. I still prefer my 990s but I can certainly understand some of the less enthusiastic reactions to the 880s.


----------



## swt61

Mrvile you certainly have jumped on the tube rolling bandwagon in a big way. Did I create a monster? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 warrior is that the Sylvania I sent? If so it sounds great, and I want it back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But seriously if you ever get the chance to audition a Tung-Sol round plate in your DV I think it would be a great pairing with your DT 990's. I bought one in superb condition from Fitz a while back, and it was so smooth and lush without being too gooey. In the end I prefered the Kenrad with my K340 because it helps with the bass impact, but I wish I had a matched pair to try with my Ortho's. I don't feel like taking out a second mortgage to buy a matched NOS pair though.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 EH yet? I hope that they don't hum, I just ordered a pair._

 

I tried it a while ago. It hums... very, very loudly.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried it a while ago. It hums... very, very loudly._

 

Shucks.... Is there anyway to remedy this? How about your "hum be gone" mod?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shucks.... Is there anyway to remedy this? How about your "hum be gone" mod?_

 

It's possible. I had already gotten rid of the tubes before I found that mod, so I don't have any first hand experience testing it with the EH tubes. If you want to try it I should have some extra good quality caps of the right size that I can give you.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's possible. I had already gotten rid of the tubes before I found that mod, so I don't have any first hand experience testing it with the EH tubes. If you want to try it I should have some extra good quality caps of the right size that I can give you._

 

Pm sent. Thanks a lot


----------



## SonicDawg

Great, I just performed the hum mod on the DV, and now the GE 6SN7GTA's working perfectly without any hum!!! Hopefully this will mean that the 6SN7 EH will also work as well. Thanks a lot, Fitz, for your mod!!


----------



## andrewrocks

any new news on the DV front with the k701s?


----------



## jondl

So.. i just spent $42 on a two pairs (quad) of Svetlana Winged C 6H13C / 6AS7G tubes and am planning on spending another $80 for a pair of Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT-231... it's a sad day for my wallet.......


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jondl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So.. i just spent $42 on a two pairs (quad) of Svetlana Winged C 6H13C / 6AS7G tubes and am planning on spending another $80 for a pair of Ken Rad 6SN7GT VT-231... it's a sad day for my wallet......._

 

$80.00 for a pair of Kenrad VT231's is pretty cheap I'd say. I paid $150.00 for my NOS Black glass matched pair.


----------



## SonicDawg

Let me chime in here as well. For those of you who are a little bit conscious of mindless spending on NOS tubes, you should do the Fitz mod, and get the Electro-Harmonix 6SN7s. They are really great for the price, not to mention that they are new stocks, meaning they will never be price-gouged.


----------



## swt61

Hey was that a jab? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've done a lot of things mindlessly, but spending doesn't fall into that category.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey was that a jab? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've done a lot of things mindlessly, but spending doesn't fall into that category. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No kidding, he won't even pay for the hotel room himself. Cheap person.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No kidding, he won't even pay for the hotel room himself. Cheap person. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Forget your credit card one time and they never let you forget it!


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swt61* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey was that a jab? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've done a lot of things mindlessly, but spending doesn't fall into that category. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Lol, that was totally unintended. I was simply making a general statement about the current skyrocketing prices of NOS 6SN7s. I myself have laid down a handsome amount over them


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lol, that was totally unintended. I was simply making a general statement about the current skyrocketing prices of NOS 6SN7s. I myself have laid down a handsome amount over them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Doesn't have to be expensive. My preferred one was the grey glass RCA 6SN7GT, which can usually be had for about the same price as the Electro-Harmonix.


----------



## SonicDawg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Doesn't have to be expensive. My preferred one was the grey glass RCA 6SN7GT, which can usually be had for about the same price as the Electro-Harmonix._

 

Actually if you have been following the recent 'bay prices of the grey glass, they are getting quite expensive.


----------



## Fitz

Just gotta know how to hunt.


----------



## SonicDawg

care to share 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




?


----------



## Fitz

Not really..


----------



## SonicDawg

meanie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


----------



## laxx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really.._

 

Da Burnnnnnnn!

 I really want to hear a 336i. Hopefully I'll actually spend some time with one at the next NY meet.


----------



## Mrvile

Hey Fitz,

 Just for the record, if it's not too much trouble, can you go ahead and post the anti-hum mod for any of us Darkvoicers who may be experiencing hum?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mrvile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Fitz,

 Just for the record, if it's not too much trouble, can you go ahead and post the anti-hum mod for any of us Darkvoicers who may be experiencing hum?_

 

I've posted it a few times already. I'm too lazy to go find it again.


----------



## Headphony

Incidently, I've been searching for the 336i no hum mod for about 30 minutes to no avail. If somebody could point us slow kids in the right direction that would be nice.


----------



## laxx

It's not too hard to find if you've seen it before.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Cathode Bypass (AKA The original "Fitz mod")*

 This is the mod that started it all. I originally came up with the idea for this while trying to reduce the hum I was getting from a very expensive tube I bought, and was going to be damned if I didn't make it quiet. I tried out several values of capacitors on the input tube's cathode until I found 100uF to be the sweet spot between reducing hum and increasing gain. This was originally on a switch to allow it to be taken out of the circuit (a bypassed bypass...), due to my uncertainty about its effects on sound quality using the cheap caps I had at the time. In the current version, I'm still using 100uF caps, but have upgraded from the cheap ones I had on hand to Nichicon KZ Muse caps.

 This is single-handedly the cheapest and easiest cure for humming tubes on the Darkvoice. I have several tubes that used to have unbearable levels of hum, due to the AC heater supply used in the Darkvoice, but now I have to strain to notice anything even when the music is off._


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incidently, I've been searching for the 336i no hum mod for about 30 minutes to no avail. If somebody could point us slow kids in the right direction that would be nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you searched for 336i, you won't find much, since I've never owned a 336i.


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Incidently, I've been searching for the 336i no hum mod for about 30 minutes to no avail. If somebody could point us slow kids in the right direction that would be nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...=Darkvoice+336

 post #215 I believe.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_meanie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!_

 

He keeps spares in the third drawer of his chest of drawers. Under the thongs. I don't even think he knows how many he has, he won't miss three or four.


----------



## andrewrocks

in regards to tube rolling, i have a few questions

 is it bad to touch the bulbs while their hot? bad to switch them while they're hot? How fragile are the tubes?

 p.s. i am a total newbie


----------



## kg21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want more of a "tubey" sound, get the RCA 6AS7G gray plate (make sure the plates are gray). The Mullard 6080 is also a nice choice in this regard._

 

thanks pataburd your recommendation was spot on. I ordered the RCA 6AS7G gray plate from Tubeworld and got them yesterday. I already loved the synergy between the darkvoice 336i and the K340 but now I love it even more, the darkvoice rocks.

 In the front I got both the RCA 6SN7GT and the RCA 6SN7GTB, the 6SN7GT makes it even warmer but loses some detail from what I could tell, it also has a noticeable hum that I can hear while the music is playing at low volumes. The 6SN7GTB has no hum and has better resolution/detail I will probably use this most of the time since the 6AS7G gray plate adds plenty of warmth/body already.


----------



## kg21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *andrewrocks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in regards to tube rolling, i have a few questions

 is it bad to touch the bulbs while their hot? bad to switch them while they're hot? How fragile are the tubes?

 p.s. i am a total newbie_

 

I don't think they are supposed to be any less durable than a typical light bulb, but waiting till they cool down a little probably isn't a bad idea. I make sure never to touch the glass part with my hands (I use a cloth) but I don't know if that's necessary either I just do it as a precaution.


----------



## pataburd

KG21 offers sound advice. Instead of a cloth, though, I use a rubber glove when exchanging tubes. I've read that residual oils from the skin may get onto the glass surface of the tube and cause "hot spots" once the tube heats up again. Normally, I try to do most of the grabbing around the tube's base, where it's more sturdy and less apt to (literally) slip through my fingers. 

 I've switched tubes, impatiently, while they were still hot to the touch, but I think it's better to wait until the tube equilibrates to ambient temperature to possibly avoid "thermal shock" when cold fingers make contact with hot glass (think of suddenly plunging a cold drinking glass into very hot wash water)--although I think this might be less of an issue than handling the glass with uncovered hands. 

 With hybrid amps (like the G&W T2.6F, FEEL ??? and Bada-PH12) that use tubes and MosETs, it is critical to wait a while (some manufacturers recommend 12-24 hours) before switching tubes due to potential damage to the MosFETs.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kg21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks pataburd your recommendation was spot on. I ordered the RCA 6AS7G gray plate from Tubeworld and got them yesterday. I already loved the synergy between the darkvoice 336i and the K340 but now I love it even more, the darkvoice rocks.

 In the front I got both the RCA 6SN7GT and the RCA 6SN7GTB, the 6SN7GT makes it even warmer but loses some detail from what I could tell, it also has a noticeable hum that I can hear while the music is playing at low volumes. The 6SN7GTB has no hum and has better resolution/detail I will probably use this most of the time since the 6AS7G gray plate adds plenty of warmth/body already._

 

KG21,

 You're quite welcome. If you like the detail and added control of the RCA 6SN7GTB up front, you might want to try a Sylvania 6SN7GTA or even a GE 6SN7GTB up there, as well. Sylvanias tend to be very balanced, neutral and extended: the perfect compliment, I think, to the RCA 6AS7G gray plate. The GE 6SN7GTA/GTB is great, too, but less so than Sylvania (at least to my ears). 

 Right now, I am running the Sylvania 6AS7G in the back with the RCA 6SN7GT up front, with nice synergy.

 Boy, I really like the DarkVoice. I've owned the SinglePower premium-modded MPX3, but for me the DarkVoice has been a much more fun amp that responds more distinctly to tube changes than the MPX3. And at 1/4 the price, the 336i is even more fun!

 PatABurd


----------



## Mrvile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kg21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think they are supposed to be any less durable than a typical light bulb, but waiting till they cool down a little probably isn't a bad idea. I make sure never to touch the glass part with my hands (I use a cloth) but I don't know if that's necessary either I just do it as a precaution._

 

I've found that most of the tubes used with the Darkvoice (6SN7, 6AS7) have a pretty long base part so you don't have to touch the glass when handling the tubes, just the base. Only a few rather uncommon tubes, such as some older Sylvanias and RCAs, don't have a base, but most tubes you will find or be purchasing can be handled quite easily.

 Also, I always wait for the tubes to cool down before switching them. I don't know why, just a precaution.


----------



## kg21

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_KG21,

 You're quite welcome. If you like the detail and added control of the RCA 6SN7GTB up front, you might want to try a Sylvania 6SN7GTA or even a GE 6SN7GTB up there, as well. Sylvanias tend to be very balanced, neutral and extended: the perfect compliment, I think, to the RCA 6AS7G gray plate. The GE 6SN7GTA/GTB is great, too, but less so than Sylvania (at least to my ears). 

 Right now, I am running the Sylvania 6AS7G in the back with the RCA 6SN7GT up front, with nice synergy.

 Boy, I really like the DarkVoice. I've owned the SinglePower premium-modded MPX3, but for me the DarkVoice has been a much more fun amp that responds more distinctly to tube changes than the MPX3. And at 1/4 the price, the 336i is even more fun!

 PatABurd_

 


 ic I will take that into consideration when I have more money, so many tubes to buy/try. I agree the darkvoice is awesome already, and the tube rolling just makes it that much better. I got started rolling tubes on the Little Dot 2++ when I had it and while the selection was limited I saw how fun/easy it was. The darkvoice has a much better selection and the difference is more pronounced, too much fun. (the little dot was more subtle when I swapped tubes)


----------



## cjs

I have had my 336i for a couple of days now and I am impressed! The K701's have finally come alive.

 The original Chinese tubes produced a loud hum in the right channel. Apparently this is a problem others have had. The Sylvania 6SN7GT and the Svetlana 6H13C I had already ordered (thanks to this thread) were at hand, so I lost no time swapping them in:


















 Initially there was a hum with the volume knob past 12 o'clock but, a few hours later, it is completely gone. (I have never needed to set the volume past 10 o'clock with 0404 USB's line out, in any case.)

 This is my first high fidelity setup in general but, for what it is worth, my impression of these tubes with the 336i is completely positive. The difference from the stock tubes is quite apparent.


----------



## Otaku-Cyber

seems like there are many many happy Darkvoice owners out there!


----------



## jondl

So I just received my used Ken Rad VT-231 and theres a slight hum. Now to figure out how to do the no-hum mod o_O


----------



## Brewmaster

My 701's arrived this week and now I'm suffering the painfull waiting game for my DV and tubes. At least the DV shipped last night!

 Sadly the Audigy 2 PEX, just can't drive these phones properly.


----------



## arirug

I wonder where I can buy an adapter so I can use 7n7 tubes on the Darkvoice 336i I have ordered? They must ship international since i am living in Norway. And which of the 7n7 should I look for?


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder where I can buy an adapter so I can use 7n7 tubes on the Darkvoice 336i I have ordered? They must ship international since i am living in Norway. And which of the 7n7 should I look for?_

 

Single Power Audio is the company that made the one that I used and they do ship world-wide. They have a new model of 7N7 adapter that is pretty slick. With the old model they used an old loctal socket which could be noisy with some tubes. The new adapters use a custom socket which make a much better connection. You can reach them at sales@singlepower.com .

 Here is a pic of it in my 336FM:





 Happy Listening!


----------



## arirug

Thank you very much for a fast reply! At ebay I find there is a big competition to get the 6sn7 tubes, so when I saw one mention that you can use 7n7 with an adapter i thought this could be a solution. I will contact Singlepower now.


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arirug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much for a fast reply! At ebay I find there is a big competition to get the 6sn7 tubes, so when I saw one mention that you can use 7n7 with an adapter i thought this could be a solution. I will contact Singlepower now._

 

No problem. You might have to be patient with Single Power Audio as they get a lot of email. Some people say the best way to get in touch with them is by phone so if you have Skype or some other way of making cheap long distance calls, that might be the best way. Their phone number is 303 523-0581. They do have a web site at www.singlepower.com but it is very out of date and doesn't list any of their tube adapters. The Single Power tube rolling threads in this forum have some information on them, however.

 Happy Listening!


----------



## arirug

Thanks again!


----------



## arirug

I want to collect a lot of different tubes to my Darkvoice. I see that there is a lot of tubes at ebay. But I feel that it is more trustworthy to buy from people here on head-Fi. And tomorrow I have been registered here for a month so I guess i can put up an advertisement after tubes in that section then. These tubes are there a big difference in how long time they will last. Will they last for thousands of hours. everey night I fall asleep with my headphones on, and I will not be able to turn the amplifier off before the morning after.


----------



## hansel_ng

I recently purchased a 6sn7GT 'bad boy' from brent jessie but it seems to be having some problems...I have a loud hum on the right channel, and extremely sensitive microphonics. 

 1) is this a bad tube, 2) do I need to leave it on for much longer (I've had it running for 5 hours), or 3) does this tube just not work? 

 can someone let me know if they've got an 6sn7gts from brent jessie's site? Any other models to recommend that had no hum? 

 I'd also like to add that I'm having an amazing experience with the Sylvania 6AS7G with the chinese 6SN7GT. http://www.hificollective.co.uk/valv...mp_valves.html. I must say i think with this amp changing the back tube gives your more distinctive results than the front..

 regardless, if only that 'bad boy' would mend his ways...(sorry I couldn't help it)


 thanks loads

 ps: i have the hum mod already


----------



## gjkphd

I've done quite a bit of tube rolling over the past couple of months since I bought my 336i, using this thread as a guide. I've purchased both from established tube dealers and from E-bay. I have had good experiences with both although deals do crop up on E-bay. I had bought a Ken-Rad VT-231 from E-Bay and it emitted a hum. I thought maybe I had been stuck with a bad tube. I tried another Ken-Rad that I purchased from Parts Connexion with the same results. I know others have commented on this phenomenon so this might not be a good option unless the 'anti-hum' mod fixes it. (If it does, then I can sell the Ken Rad's to interested parties)

 So far my favorite front tubes are== Sylvania GSN7GTA w chrome top and 
 Tung Sol GSN7GTB, chrome top as well.

 For the rears my hands down favorite is a GE 6AS7GA that I picked up on E-Bay for $5. Either of these fronts with this rear tube presents an awesome soundstage with great punch, dynamics and deep bass.

 Have fun rolling


----------



## LoweArt

RCA's all round for me ! RCA 6SN7GTB up front and RCA 6AS7G in the rear. My old late 1980's INXS CDs sound like they were re-recorded yesterday with this combo on the 336i


----------



## LoweArt

Hmmmm, I see from the above photos that abs@nilenet.com is the lucky person who acquired Fitz's DarkVoice 336 !


----------



## Brewmaster

Just have to say this amp pairs phenomenally with the 701's.

 I'm currently running with a JAN 6080WC Sylvania in the back and a Sylvania GTB with red print in the front. The detail is amazing with this combo. The only downside I've found is it's perhaps a bit to revealing with music that incorporates distortion as it reveals it in all it's distorted glory. I've tried a few combos in the back but so far the Sylvania just knocks the others out for detail and soundstage (RCA and GE).

 I've got a few more tubes on the way so we'll see where I end up. 

 I never really appreciated what tuberolling could do until I bought this sucker.


----------



## SonicDawg

If you feel a bit adventurous, you should try to do the Fitz hum mod, and get the 6SN7EH. They are really good modern tubes.


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SonicDawg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you feel a bit adventurous, you should try to do the Fitz hum mod, and get the 6SN7EH. They are really good modern tubes._

 

Does the Fitz hum mod change any of the other sonic characteristics of this amp?


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the Fitz hum mod change any of the other sonic characteristics of this amp?_

 

There's a small increase in gain, but that's all.


----------



## bioport

According to various tube sites who sell this tube, NY based New Sensor Corp. aquired the right to remanufacture these tubes. They do so in a Russian plant. 

 They are supposedly the "best 6SN7 currently manufactured" and selling for the bargain price of roughly $15+. This implies they are better than the Electro Harmonix but to me they look very similar, making it seem likely that they also share their tendency to hum in a Darkvoice HPA.

 So I searched the relevant threads but could not find anything on this reissued one. Anyone had a chance to assess sound quality etc?

 @gjkphd: do you use one of these or is yours NOS?


----------



## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's a small increase in gain, but that's all._

 

Hmmm strange. My Fitz hum mod makes everyone sound like Judy Garland, it's really wierd when you listen to Johnny Cash's "Ring Of Fire" with Judy's voice. I just figured that was Fitz' preference for music so he tuned it to sound that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Of coarse I jest...The Fitz hum mod has no decernable shortcomming to my ears whatsoever, but it's a fantastic mod to alleviate hum.


----------



## arirug

I bought some tubes on ebay tonight: 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk:80/ws/eBayISAP...B:EOIBSA:UK:31

 This hobby drains the money out of my pocket. Now I have nearly 80 tubes for my Darkvoice.


----------



## gjkphd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bioport* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@gjkphd: do you use one of these or is yours NOS?_

 

mine is a NOS Tung-Sol, not the new reissued one


----------



## fallen dragon

I just got my 336i today and even after just a few hours burn in the amp is extraordinary, I'm getting a full, utterly 'musical' sound with the most incerdible sense of pace and timing out of a totally black silent background. Frankly do i even need to *think* of tuberolling?

 Oh and any suggestions for another pair of phones that suit the darkvoice as much as my AKG K340's? I'd like open backed cool and comfortable, I love my AKG's but they dont half make my ears hot...

 Cheers all
 Graham
 UK


----------



## luvdunhill

have you considered switching out the pads on your K340s? I just replaced mine with some velour pads and they are much cooler. Also, I had a pair of ATH-W1000s that were made to be cooler by simply pealing the pleather coating off... maybe this would work with the K340s?


----------



## fallen dragon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *luvdunhill* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have you considered switching out the pads on your K340s? I just replaced mine with some velour pads and they are much cooler. Also, I had a pair of ATH-W1000s that were made to be cooler by simply pealing the pleather coating off... maybe this would work with the K340s?_

 

I'm sure somewhere I saw some replacement pads covered in a knitted fabric which would be a lot cooler, but you think I can find the site again?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You would think the same search would come up with the same results wouldnt you, Where did you get yours?

 Cheers
 Graham
 UK


----------



## foreman

tube's newbie question

 Has anyone tried the tung sol 6sn7 gtb, are they good for general listing for 336i
 what is the different between the gt and gtb models
 best


----------



## nalth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *foreman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tube's newbie question

 Has anyone tried the tung sol 6sn7 gtb, are they good for general listing for 336i
 what is the different between the gt and gtb models
 best_

 

From TubeWorld:

 (6SN7GT and VT-231 have a 300VDC Max Plate Voltage rating, most are 1940's)

 (6SN7GTA is improved, uprated to 7.5 watts plate dissipation, 450VDC Plate Voltage rating, electrically similiar to 6CG7)

 (6SN7GTB is a controlled warm-up version of 6SN7GTA; 11 second heater warmup, 450VDC Plate Voltage rating. It also has 200VDC heater/cathode voltage rating)


----------



## foreman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nalth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From TubeWorld:

 (6SN7GT and VT-231 have a 300VDC Max Plate Voltage rating, most are 1940's)

 (6SN7GTA is improved, uprated to 7.5 watts plate dissipation, 450VDC Plate Voltage rating, electrically similiar to 6CG7)

 (6SN7GTB is a controlled warm-up version of 6SN7GTA; 11 second heater warmup, 450VDC Plate Voltage rating. It also has 200VDC heater/cathode voltage rating)_

 

thank u for the info


----------



## Mrvile

Ok, I switched back to the Svetlana 6H13C today after having used the Sylvania 6AS7G for a while. I have to admit, I like the sound of the Svetlana much better - the sound has much more weight and body behind it compared to the detailed but somewhat thin Sylvania. A much more enjoyable "tube-like" sound while still retaining tightness and refinement.


----------



## pataburd

Right now, I'm enjoying the RCA 6AS7G, gray plate w/Sylvania 6SN7GTB, staggered plates. I usually try to mutually offset RCAs and Sylvania, getting the best of both worlds. I like the Svetlana, too, but it can sound "hard" in less than optimal combinations. 

 My preferences for the rear tube are, in descending order:

 RCA 6AS7G gray plate
 Mullard 6080
 Sylvania 6AS7G
 Svetlana 6H13C
 RCA 6AS7G black plate
 stock Chinese 6N1P.

 Actually, the stock rear tube sounds pretty clean and expansive. With a "soft" front tube, I kind of like the 6N1P.

 My preferences for the front tube are:

 RCA 6SN7GT gray glass
 Sylvania 6SN7W
 RCA 6SN7GT clear
 Ken-Rad VT-231
 Raytheon VT-231
 National Union 6SN7GT.

 The Darkvoice has faithfully served me for 9 months now, and the sense of enjoyment that I derive from it is still very much fresh and alive, so to speak.
 [8 ) <--ersatz Ultrasone Proline 750 smiley


----------



## nalth

The wait... my 336i should be here on Monday, and I hope my tubes will arrive soon after. Based on this thread I decided to go for a RCA 6AS7G gray plate and a Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome top, hoping for some excellent sound!


----------



## Ooztuncer

finally my new tube is here... Actually it was here for last 5 weeks; however I lent my darkvoice for some time but today the trio is completed.

 Listening for last couple of hours with the sylvania 6SN7 GT + bendix 6080WB combo.

 Bass with SACD (journey - best of album) is simply unbelievable. With redbook's I am pretty much settled on the sylvania as the input tube and here are my preferences for my HD650:

 1) sylvania gt + bendix 6080wb
 2) sylvania gt + western electric 421a
 3) sylvania gt + rca gray plate

 I am using the ack! interconnects (silver) between the denon 3910 and the amp & you can't believe how dynamic, open, and full bodied the 650's became with above tube combo's along with the interconnect...

 I like the darkvoice so much that my bada + sa5k is on sale right now. This is really a great amp!


 EDIT:
 I was thinking how megadeth is sounding so good, then switched to herbie han**** quartet with tony williams, ron carter, and wynton marsalis. Piano, bass, trumpet, drums & recording are simply in the 'reference' category...


----------



## Mrvile

Hmm, it looks like the Sylvania 6SN7GT is the most popular of the "mainstream" front tubes, which is nice as it only costs about $25. I do want to try some GE 6080's in the back, they do look interesting.


----------



## pataburd

My experience with the GE and RCA 6080 is that they sound "hard." With the right front tube, they can impart some tightness and control to the sound, but at the expense of sounding, IMHO, narrowish.

 The only 6080 that I've tried, and that I've liked so far, is the Mullard. I'm sure the Bendix sounds very good--but for the price, it had better. I've seen JAN Philips and Sylvania 6080 on eBay, but haven't ventured to try either of them yet.


----------



## rhythmdevils

the pull towards a tube amp...

 all tube experiments and rolling aside, how much does it cost you all to keep the amp running as far as replacement tubes?


----------



## fallen dragon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the pull towards a tube amp...

 all tube experiments and rolling aside, how much does it cost you all to keep the amp running as far as replacement tubes?_

 

Nothing at all! So far I'm using my Darkvoice with the stock tubes it came with and it's exceptional...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Graham
 UK


----------



## dty

Has anyone tried the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 tube?

http://www.thetubestore.com/eh-6sn7g.html


----------



## pataburd

It hums terribly, as do other Russian-made tubes I've tried. There's an "anti-hum" mod for the 336i, but I'm not sure whether that stops the notorious 6SN7EH from audibly humming w/the Darkvoice.


----------



## arielext

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 tube?

http://www.thetubestore.com/eh-6sn7g.html_

 

I got 2, one hummes a lot, the other is dead quiet, sound wise they sound ok, but there are better tubes.


----------



## dty

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *arielext* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got 2, one hummes a lot, the other is dead quiet, sound wise they sound ok, but there are better tubes._

 

Like what other tubes? Does it sound better than the tung-sol 6sn7 gtb?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dty* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like what other tubes?_

 

 . . . Pandora's box awaits you. : )

 See earlier posts along this thread for plenty of 6SN7 and 6AS7G impressions/recommendations. Right now I am using the Sylvania 6SN7GTA and a Mullard 6080 to excellent effect. 

 The "ultimate" front tube might be the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT round plate, which I have yet to try, and which I cannot yet afford. I really like the RCA 6SN7GT grey glass and the Sylvania 6SN7W, too.


----------



## dty

I have a rca 6sn7 grey glass also. Its not as detailed as the tung-sol, but it has a nice warm sound to it. Im just looking for a tube that is better than the tung-sol 6sn7 gtb in the 20-30 dollar range (not looking for a really expensive rare tube). Im also looking for a good back tube (I currently have a sylvania 6080wc and a 6h13c russian tube for the back).


----------



## toanaldino

has anyone tried the RCA 6AS7G fat-glass ?

 It's a little smaller than the regular RCA 6AS7G, but in terms of performance, is there a big difference?


----------



## Brewmaster

I decided to conduct a blind tube test with my AKG 701's.

 I randomized all my 6sn7's in a drawer, grabbed them blind, and inserted into the DV without looking. All tests were conducted with a Sylvania 6080WC JAN tube in the back. I had previously found this was the 6as7 I seem to enjoy the most.

 Below are my comments. After I finished listening to each tube I layed them in order so I could match up with the tubes when I was done my listening tests. Comments are somewhat random as I just jotted down thoughts as I had them and didn't necessarily try to compare individual passages of music.

 There may be contradictory statements about each tube as on some songs my impressions were different. I listened to the same 10 songs with each tube. Testing occurred over several days.

 Tube1: (GE 6sn7gta flat Grey plates, side halo getter and flashing, red print)
 Bad Hum Initially, and throughout. Distracting on quiet passages.
 Good bass
 Full Sound
 Detailed
 Something missing?
 Soundstage a bit compressed.
 Very full sounding.
 Soundstage fine.
 Seems detail a bit missing on some tracks.
 Nothing offensive with this tube.
 Well balanced.


 Tube 2: (Sylvania 6sn7gta Short bottle, black triangular plates, heavy flashing, green print)
 Significant Hum, that went almost completey away.
 Good bass
 Soundstage a bit compressed 
 Balanced.
 Very good male vocals.
 NOthing offensive with this tube.
 More open and detailed.
 A bit bright.
 Tight bass
 Better than Tube1
 Very good detail
 Soundstage great
 Far better than Tube1 for detail
 Great low end
 Great with female vocals.


 Tube 3: (Sylvania 6sn7gtb - Black triangular plates, red print, date AJR)
 Significant hum initially, that remained
 Good detail and impact
 Something missing in bass detail.
 Soundstage and detail better than 2, but something missing from top end.
 Good female vocals
 Soundstage very good.
 No issues with this tube.
 Very nice.
 Not noticing the same brightness as 2.


 Tube 4: (Emerson 6sn7gt Grey T-plates, circular mica supports at top actually a rebranded Tung-Sol Mouse Ear)
 Very mild hum
 Decent impact
 Something not right, soundstage somewhat limited. Some songs seem to lack detail, others are fine.
 A pretty good tube. Quite good on some songs.
 A little harsh and fatiguing.


 Tube 5 (Brown base Sylvania 6sn7WGTA, black triangular plates, halo getter)
 Decent impact
 Soundstage significantly better
 Good detail
 Balanced
 Smooth
 Great detail
 Just a little bright
 Good female vocals
 Good male vocals
 Significantly better than tube 4, no harsh sound.


 Tube 6: (Sylvania 6sn7GTB Grey parallel plates, made in England, strange saucer getter at bottom)
 Bad hum
 Good impact and detail
 Good soundstage
 Good balance
 Good female vocals
 A bit bright
 Nice tube except for hum, and fatigue from brightness.


 Tube 7: (Original tube from amp)
 No hum
 Impact not quite up to snuff
 Detail seems to be a bit lacking
 Soundstage a bit limited
 Not bad
 Female vocals good
 Quite good with some songs. 


 Tube 8: (RCA 6sn7GTB, flat Black Plates)
 No Hum
 Impact a little lacking
 Laid back
 Soundstage a bit lacking
 Highs seem recessed
 Neutral
 Detail ok on some tracks, lacking on others.
 A little harsh on some tracks.


 Tube 9: (Sylvania 6sn7GTB, black triangular plates, green print)
 Significant Hum
 Fairly detailed
 Pretty good impact, a little less than some of the other tubes.
 Soundstage seems slight less than some of the other tubes.
 Balanced.
 Female vocals missing some detail
 Detail good on some tracks, seems to lack on others.
 NOthing offensive other than hum.


 Tube 10: (Motorola 6sn7GT, made in USA, Grey prallel plates, circular mica supports, actually a rebraded TungSol 

 Mouse Ear).
 No hum
 Good impact
 Good soundstage
 Good detail.
 Very nice.
 Good female vocals
 Nice balance. 
 Musical
 Great sound, developed a hum in left side.


 Tube 11: (Sylvania JAN 6SN7WGTA, Brown base, black parallel plates, halo geter)
 No hum
 Good Impact
 Balanecd
 Good detail
 Good soundstage
 Good female vocals
 Good male vocals
 Musical
 NIce.
 Good low end.


 Tube 12: (Sylvania 6sn7GTB, red print, halo getter, black triangular plates)
 No Hum
 Good Impact
 Missing some detail on some tracks, but good on others.
 Soundstage not full on some tracks.
 Good male vocals.
 Good female vocals

 Overall Tube 11 is my favorite and now resides in my DV.
 I've tried this tube with RCA, Sylvania, and Westinghouse in the back but always go back to a Sylvania 6080WC. This combination just sound right to me. How I expect live music to sound. Detailed but not harsh.

 After the blind comparison I have compared Tube 11 with a VT-231 Sylvania with parallel black plates, with the flashing on the bottom, but still slightly prefer Tube 11 although they were sonically very similar.

 I have not tried to go back and relisten to the some of these tubes for further comparison, but I plan to review the two Tung-Sol mouse ears as I'm suprised I found the Motorola much better than the Emerson considering they look virtually identical.


----------



## Superpredator

Nice comparison Brewmaster!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I decided to conduct a blind tube test with my AKG 701's. 
 

Did you write the tube comments after you were unblinded or before? That would make a big difference.


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you write the tube comments after you were unblinded or before? That would make a big difference._

 

Before. Basically I pulled them out of one drawer and put them in another where I couldn't see them when I was done. I had the amp out of sight during listening. There was definately some fumbling as I tried to install them in the amp without looking. Fingerprints all over. Oh well, I cleaned them afterwards.


----------



## tbonner1

Great comparison Brewmaster, thanks for taking the time.


----------



## foreman

Brewmaster, it is a great batch
 thank u


----------



## rhythmdevils

I just got a darkvoice, and so far it sounds absolutely fantastic with my HF1's. It doesn't really seem to give the hf1's soundstage, cause that will never happen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but it seems to extend the "headstage" through both ears, so that it sounds like my whole head is filled with the music. It really removes directionality from the sound, i dont have a sense of music coming from 2 drivers anymore, but instead it is just filling my head with sound. I can definitely forget im wearing headphones.

 But, im getting a lot of *hum*, all with tubes that didnt seem to hum with their previous owners. The sylvania chrome dome gives me a really loud hum, as loud as the music, my bad boy isnt too bad, but bothersome. and i have an rca and it also hums a tiny bit, though i can only hear it without the music playing.

 I tried using some old K140's that are 600 ohms, and this decreased the hum, but it was still there with the sylvania bad boy. 

 So what can i do about this? is there a problem with the amp? Ive read about fitz's mod, but i can't find info about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks everyone

 ps. im using an RCA 6AS7GA in the back


----------



## rhythmdevils

anyone have any ideas about fixing this hum?


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone have any ideas about fixing this hum?_

 

Have you tried letting the tubes run for a couple of hours. I found some of the tubes seemed to have a hum that went away after a short burn in.


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried letting the tubes run for a couple of hours. I found some of the tubes seemed to have a hum that went away after a short burn in._

 

yeah, ive tried this, and they are all slightly used tubes, so this shouldnt be the issue...

 Could this specific back tube be causing hum in the front tubes?


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a darkvoice, and so far it sounds absolutely fantastic with my HF1's. It doesn't really seem to give the hf1's soundstage, cause that will never happen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but it seems to extend the "headstage" through both ears, so that it sounds like my whole head is filled with the music. It really removes directionality from the sound, i dont have a sense of music coming from 2 drivers anymore, but instead it is just filling my head with sound. I can definitely forget im wearing headphones.

 But, im getting a lot of *hum*, all with tubes that didnt seem to hum with their previous owners. The sylvania chrome dome gives me a really loud hum, as loud as the music, my bad boy isnt too bad, but bothersome. and i have an rca and it also hums a tiny bit, though i can only hear it without the music playing.

 I tried using some old K140's that are 600 ohms, and this decreased the hum, but it was still there with the sylvania bad boy. 

 So what can i do about this? is there a problem with the amp? Ive read about fitz's mod, but i can't find info about it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks everyone

 ps. im using an RCA 6AS7GA in the back_

 

I've noted using the RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6080 that I hear intrusive hum using lower impedance cans (HF-1, Audio-Technicas, although less with the W100). From what I gather it's simply a case of hit or miss. I use a United Electron 6AS7G that is very quiet. I haven't noticed any real hum with my collection of 6SN7s. I would try the Svetlana 6AS7G (or whatever it's called) as it's known to be quiet. I doubt there is a problem with the Darkvoice. Perhaps adding some resistance (75 - 150 ohm?) might help.


----------



## toanaldino

has anyone tried the Tung-sol 6SN7GTB brown base (reissue) tube? 

 I want to know if there is any hum or hiss in these tubes?


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Superpredator* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noted using the RCA 6AS7G and RCA 6080 that I hear intrusive hum using lower impedance cans (HF-1, Audio-Technicas, although less with the W100). From what I gather it's simply a case of hit or miss. I use a United Electron 6AS7G that is very quiet. I haven't noticed any real hum with my collection of 6SN7s. I would try the Svetlana 6AS7G (or whatever it's called) as it's known to be quiet. I doubt there is a problem with the Darkvoice. Perhaps adding some resistance (75 - 150 ohm?) might help._

 

So you think that my 6AS7GA in the back could be causing the bad boy and chrome dome to hum? Cause those are both said to be great, quiet tubes. 

 Ive tried 600 ohm cans, and it was better, but not great. Thanks predator!


----------



## Mazuki

Has anyone ever tried a 6336A or 6528 instead of 6AS7/6080?


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone ever tried a 6336A or 6528 instead of 6AS7/6080?_

 

You will cook your Darkvoice and possibly start a fire if you try those tubes in it as the heaters on them draw twice as much current as the 6080/6AS7.

 Happy Listening!


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 You will cook your Darkvoice and possibly start a fire if you try those tubes in it as the heaters on them draw twice as much current as the 6080/6AS7. 
 

I have read that all Darkvoices are built using parts with extremely high tolerances. Are you claiming this based on empirical evidence or just a guess based on the specs?


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

I don't have first-hand experience with this because I am not crazy enough to risk toasting my 336FM. I do have those tubes but only use them with my Extreme Platinum which was specially modified by Mikhail to handle them. You not only have to upgrade the power supply but all the supporting electronics to handle double the current.

 I highly doubt that a cheap Chinese amp will be built with enough tolerance to support a 5 amp output tube when the stocker is 2.5 amps. More than likely the stock transformer is a 5 amp model or less which will be overloaded with those tubes not to mention the supporting resistors, capacitors, etc that will get red hot with the additional current flowing through them.

 It's up to you. Try them in your DV and see how long it lasts and how hot it gets.

 Happy Listening!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have read that all Darkvoices are built using parts with extremely high tolerances. Are you claiming this based on empirical evidence or just a guess based on the specs?_


----------



## AS1

I did some opamp rolling on my soundcard before. I expected to hardly hear a difference. To my surprise I had no trouble hearing obvious differences.
 So with good hopes I did some tube rolling on my Darkvoice.
 This turned out to be a challenge this time. The differences are just soooo small!

 My tubes (all 6SN7GTB):
 rebranded Sylvania's (possibly Tung-sol): IBM, Motorola, Magnavox
 Raytheon and Raytheon uniline (tall tube)
 Westinghouse
 General Electric

 The only ones without a hum are Westinghouse, Raytheon uniline and Magnavox

 After hours of trying I finally found some minute differences.
 The stock tubes seem to be less focused. Guitars sound a bit rounded off. Quite tubey. This doesn't make them bad tubes though! This difference is just too smal. If you can't be bothered rolling tubes, just enjoy the stock tubes.
 I was looking for the tube which sounds fullest and has best soundstage. To me it's the Westinghouse with Raytheon uniline and GE close behind.

 One of the GE's is a coin plate. This is supposed to be the worst 6SN7GTB ever made?? I sounds just fine to me, thank you.


----------



## bobby001

Hi guys,

 Last year I brought back a Darvoice 336 from China for very cheap price and now I'm planning to change Tubes : there is someone who can advise me where I can order new "good" tubes for good price. Please I don't want order on ebay but I prefer pay with Paypal, last request I'm French so I need an international shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for your future answer.

 Regards.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did some opamp rolling on my soundcard before. I expected to hardly hear a difference. To my surprise I had no trouble hearing obvious differences.
 So with good hopes I did some tube rolling on my Darkvoice.
 This turned out to be a challenge this time. The differences are just soooo small!

 My tubes (all 6SN7GTB):
 rebranded Sylvania's (possibly Tung-sol): IBM, Motorola, Magnavox
 Raytheon and Raytheon uniline (tall tube)
 Westinghouse
 General Electric

 The only ones without a hum are Westinghouse, Raytheon uniline and Magnavox

 After hours of trying I finally found some minute differences.
 The stock tubes seem to be less focused. Guitars sound a bit rounded off. Quite tubey. This doesn't make them bad tubes though! This difference is just too smal. If you can't be bothered rolling tubes, just enjoy the stock tubes.
 I was looking for the tube which sounds fullest and has best soundstage. To me it's the Westinghouse with Raytheon uniline and GE close behind.

 One of the GE's is a coin plate. This is supposed to be the worst 6SN7GTB ever made?? I sounds just fine to me, thank you._

 

UPDATE: read this:


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *toanaldino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_has anyone tried the Tung-sol 6SN7GTB brown base (reissue) tube? 

 I want to know if there is any hum or hiss in these tubes?_

 

So far, the quietest 6SN7 I have tried in the 336i, and it sounds VERY good. I was skeptical about a re-issue tube, but this one is a goodie! I will probably stay with it and the RCA 6AS7 as the tube combo for the DV.


----------



## drc73rp

Just got my 336i last week and while i don't want to rush into make any judgments as i tube roll because i don't believe i've fully burnt-in the amp, i'd like to report that with me, the hum came with the chinese stock tubes. With the GE 6080 + RCA Gray Glass/Tungsol 6SN7GT, it was very quiet. Also, with the stock volume control im reaching between 11 to 1 in the dial using my Beyer DT880s. I mention this only because i read before that some complain of it going loud very quickly which is not my experience (might be the 250Ohms). In all, stock and not fully burnt-in, im a happy camper so far with NOS tubes. Great with classical!


----------



## drc73rp

Check that, there is hum after all even with NOS. But its audible only beyond 2 o'clock. JianLiu said it should go away after burn in (30-100hours).


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UPDATE: read this:_

 

AS1, 
 Why not give one of the better rated tubes a chance? I noticed very large differences between the lower end tubes and a few older Sylvania's.

 The power tube also has a large effect. Grab a cheap Sylvania 6080 and see what you think.


----------



## LoweArt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 Last year I brought back a Darvoice 336 from China for very cheap price and now I'm planning to change Tubes : there is someone who can advise me where I can order new "good" tubes for good price. Please I don't want order on ebay but I prefer pay with Paypal, last request I'm French so I need an international shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your future answer.

 Regards._

 

Hey Bobby001, 

 I hate to be the one telling you this, but here goes !

 There are lots of great/bargain tube purchases to be made on ebay and all the tubes ( NOS and otherwise ) that I purchased for my Darkvoice 336i was bought off ebay with ease. Only in one case did I receive a tube that had loose base and a quick email to the seller had a replacement organised for posting to me within 24hrs !

 Remember that many of the reputable tube sellers on eBay accept Paypal and as such, you are covered by eBay's buyer protection policy by making payment through the use of Paypal. 

 Your other option is to buy NEW tubes through a web based company like 
http://thetubestore.com/index.html but they only take credit cards ! I've used them many time in the past with no issues when I've purchased new Electro-Harmonix tubes. 

 If you read some of the previous posts here you will find that some Darkvoice owners had hum or other incompatibility issues with the new Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 tubes in their amps. Also of note is the positive comments about the Winged C or SED made 6H13C tube as alternative to the standard 6AS7G !

 If all else fails, you are more than welcome to PM me and ask me about my excess stock of RCA 6SN7GTB & RCA 6AS7G tubes that I'm selling off.

 Hope this information helps you.


----------



## Skylab

I agree with Loweart. There are LOTS of 6AS7 tubes available on EBAY for silly-low prices, and I have also only gotten one bad one, and the seller sent me another to replace it no charge right away.

 I am head-over heels in love with the 6AS7 right now. It's an awesome sounding tube. My RCA Radiotron 6AS7 GT is so holographic sounding it's hard to stop listening to it. Tomorrow my RCA 6SN7's should finally arrive.

 I have had ZERO hum with any of my tubes, but my 336i has the "Fitz hum mod".


----------



## pataburd

x3


----------



## drc73rp

Hum's all gone with the NOS tubes, around 100 hours burn-in. I've not bothered to put the chinese tubes back in so i dont know if there's hum with those.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Tungsol 6SN7 is now my preferred tube over the RCA grey glass. Also using GE 6080 (not the one in pic). Love the detail, speed and resolution. The RCA is warmer, but there's just more to hear with the Tungsol. Combined with DT880, classical music is so becoming addictive


----------



## Skylab

I'm using an all-RCA tube complement right now, but I think I may also prefer the Tung-Sol 6sn7 over the RCA. However, the RCA Radiotron 6AS7 is here to stay - it's the absolute BOMB, and I prefer it to the 6080 tubes I have tried.

 Overall I am REALLY impressed with the 336i. With the right tubes, it sounds very, very good, especially in light of it's price! Makes me wonder about the 337


----------



## LoweArt

I think you have a GREAT collection of Headphone amps there Skylab, certainly enough to put most of us to shame !


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LoweArt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you have a GREAT collection of Headphone amps there Skylab, certainly enough to put most of us to shame !
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The only thing missing is the Bada PH-12! : )


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only thing missing is the Bada PH-12! : )_

 

I actually looked into it a little after your post, but I don't personally care for hybrid amps. Just a personal thing. I like all SS or all tube. I don't doubt it's good sounding, though.


----------



## pataburd

Then in the interests of science, Skylab, you owe it to yourself to audition the PH-12. : ) 

 Look at tbonner1's 21-amp comparison, where the Bada reigns supreme. In my experience it betters the 336i and MPX3/6SN7. Another Head-Fier has confided that the Bada even betters, IHHO, the mighty Meier Opera.

 The gauntlet has been (congenially) tossed down. : )


----------



## Skylab

LOL! Maybe I can borrow one somewhere


----------



## GoldWarlock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yeah, ive tried this, and they are all slightly used tubes, so this shouldnt be the issue...

 Could this specific back tube be causing hum in the front tubes?_

 

I have the same problem. Any solutions?


----------



## nalth

I want more bass. Can anybody suggest which tube I could replace and with what?

 My current setup:
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB (chrome dome, triangular black plates) 
 RCA 6AS7G (gray plates, Westinghouse)
 + AKG K701's

 I suppose the 6AS7G could be replaced with something giving more bass?


----------



## Skylab

If you want more bass, go for a new-production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB. It has the most bass of any of the 6SN7's I have tried. I prefer the CBS Hytron all around, but my headphones all have lots of bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really like the sound of the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G's.


----------



## kg21

another major tube moment for me: I found that I had gotten very used to (bored by) the sound of my setup: fully modded K340s with 6AS7G Gray Plate (rear) and 6SN7GTB RCA (front) for my 336i. I replaced the 6SN7GTB RCA with my gray glass 6SN7GT RCA and am once again amazed. There was a lot of positive feedback about it in this thread but the reason I didn't try it before was I bought the 6SN7GT and the 6SN7GTB used off ebay and the 6SN7GT gray glass had an unbearable hum when I first tried it. I thought it was a bad tube, but luckily after hundreds of hours of burn in on the darkvoice there is no hum. The 6SN7GTB made the sound more detailed and faster but it was more cold/clinical. The 6sn7gt gray glass just makes it sound so warm/liquid/musical glad I decided to give them one more try.


----------



## drc73rp

Anyone upgraded the volume to an Alps Blue Velvet or even a DACT? Is there any improvement in the SQ aside from the more gradual increase in volume?


----------



## nalth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want more bass, go for a new-production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB. It has the most bass of any of the 6SN7's I have tried. I prefer the CBS Hytron all around, but my headphones all have lots of bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really like the sound of the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G's._

 

Thanks for the tip, need to look into that one. 
 However, does anybody have any suggestions for a rear tube that would give more bass? 

 (Current tube: RCA 6AS7G (gray plates, Westinghouse))


----------



## Dutchess of York

Just ordered the 336i as my first amp (for use with sr225s and hd650s), ive never used tubes before and was curious about where i can get them, or how they swap out of the darkvoice. In the picture or the 336i, it looks like two compleatly different types of tubes are needed, what are the types(?) of tubes for each slot (or does this matter?). Anybody have recomendations for tubes with gardos and senns? thanks
 (sry if this has already been asked, 250 posts looks alittle time consuming to pick through)


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dutchess of York* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered the 336i as my first amp (for use with sr225s and hd650s), ive never used tubes before and was curious about where i can get them, or how they swap out of the darkvoice. In the picture or the 336i, it looks like two compleatly different types of tubes are needed, what are the types(?) of tubes for each slot (or does this matter?). Anybody have recomendations for tubes with gardos and senns? thanks
 (sry if this has already been asked, 250 posts looks alittle time consuming to pick through)_

 

If you get a chance I'd pick through all the pages. Worth it when trying to get the best out of an amp like this, especially given the differing opinions you will see.

 Ebay is a good place for tubes, but there are also some reputable tube sellers on the internet. The big tube in the back is a 6AS7, and the front is a 6SN7. If you use ebay look at the related searches as there are some variants sold under different designations. Probably a good place to start with those cans is a NOS RCA 6AS7 in the back, and a dark/grey glass RCA in the front. Tubes are easy to swap, I think there is a sticky somewhere that explains that amongst other things. I'm a big fan of the older Sylvania tubes, but I haven't heard them with Senn or Grado. Good luck and enjoy a great budget amp.


----------



## Dutchess of York

is there a difference between 6AS7-G and 6AS7


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dutchess of York* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there a difference between 6AS7-G and 6AS7_

 

6AS7 -G, -GT, -GTB, -GA will all work fine, as will any 6080, but I prefer 6AS7's, if for no other reason than they LOOK so much cooler


----------



## nick20

Can anyone comment on the 6AS7 Sovtek? A search within this thread reveled one reply to the Sovtek.

http://store.tubedepot.com/so-6as7g.html


 $25 + shipping is a little pricey, but is it worth it? I plan on trying a new-production Tung-Sol as well (Skylabs recommendation for added bass).




 Thanks,


 -Nick


----------



## ElephantTLK

Ok i have one question. I wan´t to change tubes on my Drakvoice but i really dont know what to choose. For front (small) tube i was already looking at Tung-Sol 6SN7 or NOS RCA 6SN7GT. Wich is better? But i don´t know what tube to buy for one in back (bigger tube). Or is it even worth updating it? So wich pair of tubes is best for Darkvoice?


----------



## Skylab

My personal preference is all RCA NOS tubes. If you wanted to buy non-used tubes, then the Russian tubes (Sovtek 6AS7 and the Tung-Sol 6SN7gtb) are better choices than the stock chinese tubes. But the vintage RCAs sound better still, IMO (although that re-issued Tung-Sol is a fine tube).


----------



## ElephantTLK

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My personal preference is all RCA NOS tubes. If you wanted to buy non-used tubes, then the Russian tubes (Sovtek 6AS7 and the Tung-Sol 6SN7gtb) are better choices than the stock chinese tubes. But the vintage RCAs sound better still, IMO (although that re-issued Tung-Sol is a fine tube)._

 

Thanks. But with what to replace that bigger tube (6N5PJ)?


----------



## evanft

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My personal preference is all RCA NOS tubes. If you wanted to buy non-used tubes, then the Russian tubes (Sovtek 6AS7 and the Tung-Sol 6SN7gtb) are better choices than the stock chinese tubes. But the vintage RCAs sound better still, IMO (although that re-issued Tung-Sol is a fine tube)._

 

Can you point me to the types of tubes your talking about, maybe on eBay somewhere?


----------



## Skylab

The big tube in the back (power tube) is a 6AS7 (6N5PJ is a chinese designation). Any 6AS7 will work, as will any 6080. My preference so far is NOS RCA 6AS7G, although I have tried only about 6 or 7 total different ones. In any case, ALL of the "vintage" USA made 6AS7's I have tried sound better than either the Chinese or Russian equivalents I received with the amp when I got it.

 Just search EBay for 6AS7 and 6AS7G and you will see numerous options. Here is one example of an RCA: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-RCA-6AS7G-t...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## ElephantTLK

Thanks a lot for all information on tubes. You helped me a lot.


----------



## nickknutson

I don't mean to threadjack, but I was wondering what are the dimensions of the DV 336i?


----------



## nalth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nickknutson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mean to threadjack, but I was wondering what are the dimensions of the DV 336i?_

 


 270mm x 150mm x 140mm (not inc. tubes)


----------



## nickknutson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nalth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_270mm x 150mm x 140mm (not inc. tubes)_

 

Thanks!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on the 6AS7 Sovtek? A search within this thread reveled one reply to the Sovtek.

http://store.tubedepot.com/so-6as7g.html


 $25 + shipping is a little pricey, but is it worth it? I plan on trying a new-production Tung-Sol as well (Skylabs recommendation for added bass).




 Thanks,


 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Bump. Anyone have any experience with the Sovtek 6AS7's?


----------



## Skylab

I haven't tried them, but my experience with other Russian 6AS7 equivalents leads me to think that you'd be better off with one of the zillion vintage USA branded real 6AS7's you can score on EBay for under $20.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't tried them, but my experience with other Russian 6AS7 equivalents leads me to think that you'd be better off with one of the zillion vintage USA branded real 6AS7's you can score on EBay for under $20._

 


 Thanks. I bought one used, which included some nice 6AS7 RCA gray plates, and was just wondering on other options out there.


 Quick question:

 When changing a tube out, is it best to wait a certain amount of time before switching out the tube? And would it be bad for the amp to switch the tubes out a few times a day, in the beginning, until I can settle on the tube for me?



 Thanks,


 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Just wait 15 minutes or so after power-off before removing the tube and putting in the new one.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just wait 15 minutes or so after power-off before removing the tube and putting in the new one._

 


 Cool, thanks. I'll wait an hour or so, just to be sure. It's my first tube amp.


----------



## tammolives

I've ordered some tubes for my darkvoice, I'm excited. 
 2 weeks lurking head-fi and I've already bought too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (First Post!)

 (sorry, Skylab, I think I may have outbid you on a couple of tubes)


----------



## Skylab

Welcome to head-fi! Sorry for your wallet. And apparently, you helped keep mine from being even sorrier


----------



## nick20

Anyone have any luck with the RCA 6SN7GTB Coin Base tubes? Searched revealed nothing, and this is a very lightly used tube, close to NOS according to seller, and retails for $25 on tubedepot.






 Thanks,


 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

Nick,
 Haven't tried the RCA 6SN7GTB coin base. I think it was RCA's lastest production GTB. The older silver- or orange-labeled GTBs might be better, and can be found cheaper on eBay.

 Overall, I like the RCA 6SN7GTs better; maybe not quite as tight and controlled as the GTBs, but (IMHO) a bit more liquidy and musical.

 Patrick


----------



## Skylab

x2. I tried a coin-base and wasn't impressed. The orange-labeled RCA "Radiotron" ones sound the best of the RCAs to me. But my favorite is the CBS Hytron.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_x2. I tried a coin-base and wasn't impressed. The orange-labeled RCA "Radiotron" ones sound the best of the RCAs to me. But my favorite is the CBS Hytron._

 

Like one of these:


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-JAN-MILITARY-C...QQcmdZViewItem



 And anyone have experience with the Sylvania 6SN7GTB's (Black Plates)? They go for about $30 on eBay, and from what I'm reading, these are excellent tubes. 



 Thanks,

 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like one of these:


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-JAN-MILITARY-C...QQcmdZViewItem



 And anyone have experience with the Sylvania 6SN7GTB's (Black Plates)? They go for about $30 on eBay, and from what I'm reading, these are excellent tubes. 



 Thanks,

 -Nick_

 

Nick,
 That CBS-Hytron that you queued up is a nice tube, too! Very nimble. 

 The Sylvania 6SN7GTB is also an excellent tube. I just ran one w/the RCA 6AS7G gray plate on my 336i and the synergy was top-notch. Sylvanias as a rule bring detail, speed and extension to the sound. : )

 Right now, I am running a JAN-CRC (RCA) 6AS7G black plate w/the GE 6SN7GTB. Very tight, with nice speed and dynamics.

 Patrick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick,
 That CBS-Hytron that you queued up is a nice tube, too! Very nimble. 

 The Sylvania 6SN7GTB is also an excellent tube. I just ran one w/the RCA 6AS7G gray plate on my 336i and the synergy was top-notch. Sylvanias as a rule bring detail, speed and extension to the sound. : )

 Right now, I am running a JAN-CRC (RCA) 6AS7G black plate w/the GE 6SN7GTB. Very tight, with nice speed and dynamics.

 Patrick_

 



 Thanks. I also have the same RCA 6AS7G running in the back right now. Hopefully I will win the Slyvania, with only 2 hours left, I'm always double checking. I'll post a link when the auction is over (sorry guys, I really want this, and hopefully it "slips" by, and into my hands for extremely cheap [because I'm a cheap college student 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ]). 

 I ALSO found this.. pretty cool read/review of tons of 6SN7 tubes, with lots of pictures too! Not sure if you guys have come upon this, but "I" thought it was pretty cool. Now, I will use this as a "reference point" for future tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7.htm


 I REALLY want one of those Mullard CV181's.. it's like having TWO 6AS7's (except for the Mullard sounding much better [from what I've read]).. and I do enjoy the look of these.. tubedepot has them $50 cheaper (single tube) than tubeworld (above link), but I'm not ready to drop that kind of money..




 Thanks for the advice fellas.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Here's the new addition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=011


 I'm also watching a few other tubes, but not sure if I'll hold onto them, at their current price.

 Price on the box says $20; seller was trying to sell for double that with a BIN price of $40, which is understandable especially for rarer tubes (which I'm not sure how rare, or sought after these are), and I picked this up for $15. Let's hope the tube arrives in perfect condition. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

Just rolled the Mullard 6080. With the GE 6SN7GTB, the sound is wonderfully full, rich and textured. 

 Of all the 6080s I've tried (in lieu of the 6AS7G), the Mullard definitely sounds the best. Haven't tried the Bendix 6080, though; it's allegedly the "cream of the"--6080--"crop".


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just rolled the Mullard 6080. With the GE 6SN7GTB, the sound is wonderfully full, rich and textured. 

 Of all the 6080s I've tried (in lieu of the 6AS7G), the Mullard definitely sounds the best. Haven't tried the Bendix 6080, though; it's allegedly the "cream of the"--6080--"crop"._

 


 If you're interested, I'll give you the e-mail of someone to find them. It's from a vendor here, and he makes amps.


 They start at about $100 for 70-80% tested, and around $200 NOS. There's also a member here who has two Bendix 6080's, one slightly used, one NOS, both for $200 shipped.. These have also caught my attention, however they aren't as physically nice as the 6AS7's.


----------



## nick20

Sorry for all the posts, and I hope you guys don't mind, but I have another question about a tube I own.


 It's a RCA 6SN7GT silver(smoke) glass, and when I first tired it, it had a pretty bad "hum" or "buzz" noise, noticeable in both ears. I have read letting it burn in can fix this, however I wasn't sure this was going to work, but I gave it a shot.


 Come to it, a day later, the "noise" is now completely gone out of the left ear, and isn't very audible in the right side when playing music, however you can/will notice it when you put on the headphones, and after each song. None of the other clear glass RCA's have this problem. Only the silver(smoke) glass RCA. 


 Will further burn-in get rid of this, or is this the best I'm going to get with this tube? If I should keep burning it in, how much longer should I keep it on? A few more days (24/7)?

 I don't like to listen to music with this tube, because of the noise. It annoys me.. however, I can't discover what this tube has to offer because I refuse to sit down and give this tube a solid listen. So essentially, I'm asking is it possible to completely rid this "noise" from tubes (in general), or can you only improve it to a certain extent? 




 Thanks for your help..



 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

What you describe might be symptomatic of a NOS tube ("ya pays your money and ya takes your chance"), and the residual noise may not completely dissipate. I have some Russian tubes that have never stopped humming. Fitz has recommended and documented a mod which entails swapping out the stock output capacitors w/beefier ones which, based on many testimonials, successfully vanquishes any and all hum.

 I've noticed, too, but never formally tested the hypothesis, that hum from the front tube may be dependent on the rear tube. Others have addressed this phenomenon on this thread.

 However, you are advised not/never to leave the 336i (or any other tube amp, for that matter) powered up 24/7.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What you describe might be symptomatic of a NOS tube ("ya pays your money and ya takes your chance"), and the residual noise may not completely dissipate. I have some Russian tubes that have never stopped humming. Fitz has recommended and documented a mod which entails swapping out the stock output capacitors w/beefier ones which, based on many testimonials, successfully vanquishes any and all hum.

 I've noticed, too, but never formally tested the hypothesis, that hum from the front tube may be dependent on the rear tube. Others have addressed this phenomenon on this thread.

 However, you are advised not/never to leave the 336i (or any other tube amp, for that matter) powered up 24/7._

 


 Thanks. I will get in contact with Fitz, and see what other mods he does.


 I would conclude what you said in your second paragraph. I swapped out the RCA 6AS7 for the stock Chinese tube, and the noise is non-existent. (Also using stock power cord)

 I just recently (late yesterday, my Mom "hid" my package and didn't tell me until later last night) received a VH Audio Flavor 1 power-cord. This cord is MUCH beefier, and actually "zapped" the "noise" (if that makes sense) from the two RCA tubes I was using. I'm not sure exactly how, or what could do this, but I can say this PC has helped tremendously. I'm not sure if it's AC noise, or what, but so far, I am impressed early on.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I now understand not power the amp on all-day. Is there a reasoning behind this? I'm completely curious.. Is it something in the amp, or the tubes that shouldn't be on 24/7? No longer will I run it all day/night.. 




 Thanks for your advice.. it's greatly appreciated. 




 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Tubes do have a limited life-span, although many will go 10,000 hours or more. So if you leave it on 24/7, you will burn up that life-span faster. However, for many of us, this is a non-issue - we'll probably change tubes faster than that anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tube amps do produce heat, and tubes have the possibility of blowing, so best not to leave the amp on if you leave the house.

 As for the hum, some NOS tubes can take up to a WEEK to become as quiet as they ultimately can be. That's how long it took my NOS 6SJ7GTB's to become silent, but silent they now are.


----------



## malcolmhead

Hi all, I've just ordered the Darkvoice 336i but couldn't wait to tube roll, after reading this thread. Can anyone recommend any good tubes, both front and back, to pair well with MS2? Sonic preference: deep, detail bass without loss of clarity, warm sounding, etc.

 I understand that the Ken Rad is great for bass, but this is expensive. Is there any alternative, and matching rear tube?

 Thanks all.
 Malcolm


----------



## Skylab

Go with the Tung-sol reissue 6SN7GTB and any brand USA JAN military 6080.


----------



## malcolmhead

Thanks Skylab, can you or anyone recommend any brand of USA JAN military 6080. I'm not familiar with tubes. The 336i is my first headamp.

 Thanks again.


----------



## Brewmaster

Personally I love a Sylvania 6080 JAN in the back and an older Sylvania 6sn7 in the front. The best Sylvania 6SN7's seem to be prior to the GTB's.


----------



## Skylab

Sylvania, GE, Raytheon 6080's are all great.


----------



## Sarchi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just rolled the Mullard 6080. With the GE 6SN7GTB, the sound is wonderfully full, rich and textured. 

 Of all the 6080s I've tried (in lieu of the 6AS7G), the Mullard definitely sounds the best. Haven't tried the Bendix 6080, though; it's allegedly the "cream of the"--6080--"crop"._

 

6080 was the regulator in the psu of my Counterpoint phono stage, I tried a Mullard in it a few years back. Well after a few weeks it shorted... sparks/flames/smoke, a bunch of passive parts, a $380 repair bill. I'm not saying the tube is unreliable, but I'd think twice about trying one again.

 I still have it around here, I'll dig it up to make sure, but I'm 99% sure it was a Mullard.


----------



## nick20

Anyone have any experience with a Raytheon Military Spec'd 6AS7G?

 I can only see some of the label, and it starts with a "J" (could it be JAN?) and CRC on the second line.. Military stock label on original box says Raytheon "2J6AS7G"


 Can't find any information on this...


----------



## Skylab

if "CRC" is on there then yes, the J would be JAN. Raytheon made lots of military spec tubes. But the Raytheon 6AS7 I use in my 336i is not a JAN-CRC, and the JAN-CRC tubes I use in my 337 are RCA's.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if "CRC" is on there then yes, the J would be JAN. Raytheon made lots of military spec tubes. But the Raytheon 6AS7 I use in my 336i is not a JAN-CRC, and the JAN-CRC tubes I use in my 337 are RCA's._

 


 I later found out CRC = JAN = Military Spec'd, correct me if I'm wrong. 

 I also found a LITTLE bit of info on the non-JAN spec'd Raytheon 6AS7, but nothing on the JAN Raytheon. (ie. available from a few online sellers, even the non-JAN is selling more than the JAN version I found.) Could this mean this is a rarer tube, and little (if any) is known about this tube?



 Hopefully the seller has another one, because these come in original box, with (what seems) to be a "glued" (extremely old, I can tell by all the discoloration on the label/box), on military label. However I'm not totally sure if it's "glued" on, it's not the same as other JAN boxes, where the writing is imprinted onto the box. The label is defiantly a different color than the box, but is as old as the box itself. I don't know very much about JAN tubes, except they're usually of a higher build quality, and generally sound better than non-JAN spec'd tubes.

 I found this little guy with keywords NOT relating to the item, and using keywords related to this tube, bring up nothing. Maybe if the seller used better marketing/placed in the correct section, it would get some more action. So again, hopefully my "find" will go un-noticed, and I'll pick this tube up for cheap. 





 Thanks,



 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Here's a picture of the tube I won. 


 $10 gets me this..








 You can clearly see CRC on the tube, but I request additional photos of the whole label as well, but he didn't get back to me soon enough, my bid was in. Oh well..


 Have you seen anything like this Skylab, or anyone else out there? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Looks EXACTLY like my JAN-CRC 6AS7's that are branded RCA.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks EXACTLY like my JAN-CRC 6AS7's that are branded RCA._

 


 Good eye. Now I see the "6AS7G" printed on the tube, is the same as my RCA 6AS7G (regular) 


 Can you comment on how these tubes are sonically? (JAN 6AS7's?)


----------



## Skylab

In a word, awesome. Listening to a pair of them right now as I type this on my DV 337. They sound terrific. They are tubes, but they have amazing bass, great treble extension, and oh my, that sumptuous midrange


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In a word, awesome. Listening to a pair of them right now as I type this on my DV 337. They sound terrific. They are tubes, but they have amazing bass, great treble extension, and oh my, that sumptuous midrange 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Hmm.. sounds like I found a winner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For $10, it's looking like a super-steal.. I cannot find JAN (CRC) 6AS7's anywhere.. I went through 4 pages already on google.. 


 I did find an older eBay auction for two JAN 6AS7's for $35 shipped. That's about $20 a tube, plus being the lucky person to find it. I take it these JAN 6AS7's don't pop up vary rarely?

 I tried the "normal" online tube sellers with no luck either.. 


 Where did you happen to pick up yours?


----------



## Capunk

Does Darkvoice 332 using same tubes (same type) that used by 336i ?


----------



## PFKMan23

No, they use different tube types.


----------



## nick20

Skylab, are you adding to your ever growing stash of tubes? I see you've been pretty active on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 The ECC looks pretty cool. Is that a wood base? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (PS I'm all out of money, so I won't be bidding; now I am patiently wait for the arrival of my 4 tubes, but I'm just keeping an eye out there for those "odd" tubes) 





 Take care and good luck on those tubes & be sure to share your winnings/findings with us!



 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I am a tube junkie


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, I am a tube junkie 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 You guys are turning me into one as well. I just want to own them all! "Gotta collect 'em all..." 


 Just wondering, is that ECC wood based? If so, that's pretty neat..


----------



## Skylab

Nah, that's just brown plastic. Wood would be a fire threat; 6AS7's pump out heat!

 To your earlier question, I got my JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G's on EBay. They come up, you just have to watch and wait...


----------



## Sarchi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sarchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6080 was the regulator in the psu of my Counterpoint phono stage, I tried a Mullard in it a few years back. Well after a few weeks it shorted... sparks/flames/smoke, a bunch of passive parts, a $380 repair bill. I'm not saying the tube is unreliable, but I'd think twice about trying one again.

 I still have it around here, I'll dig it up to make sure, but I'm 99% sure it was a Mullard._

 

Apologies for my post.....I found the fried tube, and it was actually a Telefunken. Memory ain't what it used to be.


----------



## pataburd

The NOS Mullard 6080 comes up from time to time on eBay. For about $20 shipped from Britain, I think they are well worth it. Very rich, liquidy and detailed.

 As we speak, I'm running one w/a GE 6SN7GTA, listening to "Frederica von Stade Sings Brubeck" to largely enjoyable effect. : ) BTW, I now prefer both the GE 6SN7GTA and GTB (and in that order) to the RCA 6SN7GT w/the more translucent gray glass, when paired with the Mullard 6080.

 Here's a picture of the "gentlemanly-looking" Mullard 6080:

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0725.htm


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nah, that's just brown plastic. Wood would be a fire threat; 6AS7's pump out heat!_

 


 DUH! *Smacks head* LOL!


----------



## pataburd

Mullard 6080 + Sylvania 6SN7GTA. Very clean and detailed w/nice extension.


----------



## pataburd

Just swapped out the Mullard 6080 for the Svetlana 6H13C, and must admit that I think the Svetlana sounds fuller, deeper and richer. (I'm listening to vocals/music from Cyprus, from the early 15th century, performed by Ensemble PAN--really lovely stuff!!)


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just swapped out the Mullard 6080 for the Svetlana 6H13C, and must admit that I think the Svetlana sounds fuller, deeper and richer. (I'm listening to vocals/music from Cyprus, from the early 15th century, performed by Ensemble PAN--really lovely stuff!!)_

 


 Interesting comment on the 6H13C.. I've been eyeing these for a while. Was this a eBay bought or from an online tube vendor? Mind if I ask how much you paid?


 This is the same tube, correct? I can't find much regarding the 6H13C, but these tubes clearly state it on the tube. I'm also not too familiar with alternative tube numbers either..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI




 How is it with the other genres you listen to?


----------



## Capunk

Sorry if this might be asked so many times,

 As a starter, I would like to know which combination of tubes,
 suit all rounder, preferable more to slow rock, ballad, jazz & orchestra. Big soundstage, warm and smooth, and also suit low impedance headphone such as my Denon D2000?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting comment on the 6H13C.. I've been eyeing these for a while. Was this a eBay bought or from an online tube vendor? Mind if I ask how much you paid?


 This is the same tube, correct? I can't find much regarding the 6H13C, but these tubes clearly state it on the tube. I'm also not too familiar with alternative tube numbers either..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI

 How is it with the other genres you listen to?_

 

Nick,
 Yes. Those pictured in the eBay ad--you can read it off the sides of the tubes--are the Svetlana 6H13C. $9 shipping is abit steep, but about $15/shipped for one of these tubes is a pretty good price.

 Great with jazz, too (I just put in Spyro Gyra). Deeper, more articulate bass on top of everything noted before (still coupled with the Sylvania 6SN7GTA, mind you). Nice!
 Patrick


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Capunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry if this might be asked so many times,

 As a starter, I would like to know which combination of tubes,
 suit all rounder, preferable more to slow rock, ballad, jazz & orchestra. Big soundstage, warm and smooth, and also suit low impedance headphone such as my Denon D2000?_

 

CAPunk,
 Try the RCA 6AS7G gray plate with an RCA 6SN7GT clear glass to give you "big, warm and smooth." : ) Make sure the RCA 6AS7G is the gray, not the black, plate version. The former is expansive and smooth; the latter a bit tighter and (IMHO) can be slightly harsh.
 PatABurd


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick,
 Yes. Those pictured in the eBay ad--you can read it off the sides of the tubes--are the Svetlana 6H13C. $9 shipping is abit steep, but about $15/shipped for one of these tubes is a pretty good price.

 Great with jazz, too (I just put in Spyro Gyra). Deeper, more articulate bass on top of everything noted before (still coupled with the Sylvania 6SN7GTA, mind you). Nice!
 Patrick_

 


 Yeah, they're coming straight from Russia though. But $17/shipped is still a pretty good deal I think. However, there's only been two users (you and someone a few pages back in this thread), that I know of, that have used this tube.


 What other 6080/6AS7 tubes have you used, and how does this tube compare to those overall?




 Thanks for your time,



 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

The legendary Fitz unequivocally endorsed the Svetlana 6H13C, too. Have tried: 

 6AS7G:
 RCA gray and black plate
 Sylvania
 Svetlana
 Chinese

 6080:
 RCA
 GE
 Mullard.

 With the exception of the Mullard, I have not liked any of the 6080, although I hear the Bendix is the best 6080 available.

 My rank-ordered favorites (but keep in mind the synergy w/the 6SN7 front tube):

 Svetlana 6H13C
 Mullard 6080
 RCA 6AS7G gray plate
 Sylvania 6AS7G
 RCA 6AS7G black plate
 Chinese stock tube.

 Note that I prefer fast, detailed, dynamic and clean sound for the most part, tilted more toward the Sylvania "house sound" than the RCA. Although w/some acoustic stuff the RCA 6AS7G gray plate and the RCA 6SN7GT combo is tough to beat. 

 The Svetlana is probably the most balanced, neutral--but at the same time musical--tube I've auditioned so far.

 Tailoring the sound of the 336i by tube rolling is what makes this little amp very special indeed!






 PatABurd


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The legendary Fitz unequivocally endorsed the Svetlana 6H13C, too. Have tried: 

 6AS7G:
 RCA gray and black plate
 Sylvania
 Svetlana
 Chinese

 6080:
 RCA
 GE
 Mullard.

 With the exception of the Mullard, I have not liked any of the 6080, although I hear the Bendix is the best 6080 available.

 My rank-ordered favorites (but keep in mind the synergy w/the 6SN7 front tube):

 Svetlana 6H13C
 Mullard 6080
 RCA 6AS7G gray plate
 Sylvania 6AS7G
 RCA 6AS7G black plate
 Chinese stock tube.

 Note that I prefer fast, detailed, dynamic and clean sound for the most part, tilted more toward the Sylvania "house sound" than the RCA. Although w/some acoustic stuff the RCA 6AS7G gray plate and the RCA 6SN7GT combo is tough to beat. 

 The Svetlana is probably the most balanced, neutral--but at the same time musical--tube I've auditioned so far.

 Tailoring the sound of the 336i by tube rolling is what makes this little amp very special indeed!






 PatABurd_

 


 Good stuff PAB. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Bendix can be had for/at/around $100-$200 depending on, NOS, or how much it's been used. There's a pair, 1 NOS, 1 about 75% (I think) floating around here for $200 for both. I tried to trade with the seller some car items he was interested in, but I PM'd him a few days to late. 

 Singlepower (amp maker) has the Bendix in stock as well.



 I wish the 336i had a more common tube than the 6AS7, but I won't lie, I LOVE the look of this thing. What I mean is, the 6AS7 isn't as common as the 6SN7.


----------



## nick20

Are the RCA gray plates better than the RCA black plates?

 The black plates are sure more expensive.. just wondering, because I received two (1 NOS) grey plates from tubeworld when I bought my 336i.


----------



## Skylab

I personally preferred the RCA over the Svetlana. But that's JMO, YMMV.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I personally preferred the RCA over the Svetlana. But that's JMO, YMMV._

 


 What does YMMV stand for? I see it pretty frequently, however I've yet to crack the code..


----------



## Skylab

Your Mileage May Vary


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does YMMV stand for? I see it pretty frequently, however I've yet to crack the code.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It stands for your mileage may vary.

 Happy Listening!


----------



## nick20

Thanks guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 But.. how is that abbreviation correlate with that statement?


 "Just my opinion, 'your mileage may vary' "


 Sorry for being so hard headed, but I sometimes don't understand these "easy" things.. *smacks head*


----------



## Skylab

Nick: perhaps you don't watch enough TV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Your Mileage May Vary" is the legal disclaimer in car ads about what your actual gas mileage may be. It's become internet-speak for "your experience may be different from mine".


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick: perhaps you don't watch enough TV 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Your Mileage May Vary" is the legal disclaimer in car ads about what your actual gas mileage may be. It's become internet-speak for "your experience may be different from mine"._

 



 LMAO ROFL.. sometimes, I am a complete idiot. Or maybe it's the medication I was just recently prescribed.. let's blame it on the medication.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I can see the trend starting; just look at the post at the top of this page.. 


 [size=xx-small]
 Dang, I cannot believe this went over and through my head.. like this.. I feel ashamed, and should have my posting privilege stripped from me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [/size]


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the RCA gray plates better than the RCA black plates?

 The black plates are sure more expensive.. just wondering, because I received two (1 NOS) grey plates from tubeworld when I bought my 336i._

 

The RCA 6AS7G gray plate sounds expansive and smooth, whereas the black plate is a bit tighter sounding and (IMHO) can even be slightly hard or harsh. Between the two, I more frequently choose the gray plate version. Reportedly, the RCA 6AS7G gray plate coupled with the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT round plate leaves little to be desired. : )


----------



## nick20

Dear Skylab:


 I thought this auction might be of interest to you.. certainly caught my attention. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





http://cgi.ebay.com/186-pcs-6SN7GT-H...QQcmdZViewItem




 Sincerely,



 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 PS. If you win this auction, please PM me. I will gladly take just two of your 186+ tubes in compensation.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PSS. Could the final ending price break $1,001? ($1,001 sounds better than $1,000) Some of those tubes are MIGHTY expensive..


----------



## Skylab

LOL! That is the LAST thing I need


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL! That is the LAST thing I need 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Awww, come on.. at least bid $250..


----------



## malcolmhead

Hi all

 I know this question has been answered umpteen times, but I just want to know if, given my setup (DV336i + low imp MS2 + Tung Sol 6SN7GTB + stock Chinese back tube), will longer burn-in get rid of the hum sound? I read somewhere in this thread that hum sound may not go off in the case of low impedience headphones. Someone also mentioned before that a matching pair of tube can also solve the problem. In that case, will the RCA 6AS7G or Svetlana 6H13C help in this aspect? I'm ready to get a 6AS7 tube but want to make sure that this can also help get rid of the hum, in addition to improving the sonic quality of the 336i.

 Without doing the Fitz hum mod (as I'm not technically inclined), how can I eliminate the hum?

 Can anyone advise?
 Thanks.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malcolmhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all

 I know this question has been answered umpteen times, but I just want to know if, given my setup (DV336i + low imp MS2 + Tung Sol 6SN7GTB + stock Chinese back tube), will longer burn-in get rid of the hum sound? I read somewhere in this thread that hum sound may not go off in the case of low impedience headphones. Someone also mentioned before that a matching pair of tube can also solve the problem. In that case, will the RCA 6AS7G or Svetlana 6H13C help in this aspect? I'm ready to get a 6AS7 tube but want to make sure that this can also help get rid of the hum, in addition to improving the sonic quality of the 336i.

 Without doing the Fitz hum mod (as I'm not technically inclined), how can I eliminate the hum?

 Can anyone advise?
 Thanks._

 


 This has happened to me, and the hum or noise went away after so many hours. The tube I was using was a RCA 6SN7GT smoked glass..

 Another thing that helped, I am not sure of this totally, but by switching out the power cord, instantly, the hum or "noise" became less apparent and wasn't as bothering as before. I don't know if this can be a true factor, but I would like to throw this out as well.

 I would give it at least another 24 hours total of burn-in and see if that doesn't help. Either you can leave it on for a few hours a day, or you can listen to music and hope it goes away. For me, this "noise" was to harsh for me to listen to music, so I just let the tube burn-in with some pink noise a few hours a day. 





 This is as far as I can comment, because I lack the experience, and knowledge others around here have, and will leave it up to them to finish off your question. I am merely sharing my experience when I had tube "hum". 







 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Some tubes are going to hum and not stop. But mostly if they run in for 24 hours they will quiet down. My DV336i does have the Fitz hum mod, however.


----------



## Skylab

OK, so this thread has gotten so long it's unwieldy. Everyone who currently owns a 336i, please post the tubes you are using, and NOTHING ELSE IN THAT POST PLEASE. I will start:

 Raytheon 6AS7
 Raytheon 6SN7GTB (brown-base)


----------



## Iceroid

Sovtek 6AS7G
 Kenrad vt-231 black glass


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

THA-336FM:

 GE 6414/National Union 7N7/Tung Sol 6SN7GT/Sylvania 6SN7W/Ken Rad VT231 for driver tubes.

 Bendix 6080WB/Tung Sol 2399/Sylvania 7236 for output tubes.

 Happy Tube Rolling!


----------



## Artemio

Sylvania 6SN7GT
 Western Electric 421A


----------



## pataburd

Sylvania 6SN7GTA
 Svetlana 6H13C


----------



## Headphony

Svetlana 6H13C
 GE 6SN7GTB


----------



## nalth

Sylvania 6SN7GTB (chrome dome) 
 RCA 6AS7G (gray plates)


----------



## gnychis

can somebody suggest tubes for electronic music?
 also, tubes for rock music?

 they can be two different sets of tubes... no price limit


----------



## Skylab

Try to score a JAN Hytron Raytheon 6SN7 GTB, and use a black-plate RCA.


----------



## Superpredator

Were I using the 336i:

 Tung Sol 6SN7GT black glass/round plate *+* United Electronics 6AS7G *or* RCA 6AS7G gray plate

 or

 RCA VT-231 gray glass *+* United Electronics 6AS7G


----------



## Brewmaster

Sylvania 6SN7WGTA
 Sylvania JAN 6080

 Rocks


----------



## nick20

6AS7G: JAN-CRC RCA 

 6SN7: RCA 6SN7GT smoked glass, RCA 6SN7GTB, Sylvania (black plates I think)


----------



## nick20

Did anyone here pick up this pair of Tunsol 6AS7's?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI


 I've never seen Tungsol 6AS7's before.. and these went for a hefty price.. I think. I'm not sure how much these normally go for.. 







 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

I wanted them, but was outbid.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wanted them, but was outbid._

 


 Rob, I hope you don't mind me asking what you bid on these. I'm curious as to their value, because they have not once been mentioned in the 18+ pages here, nor have I seen any on eBay until now. 


 Oh, and remember that JAN Raytheon 6AS7 I was asking you about, and you thought it might be a RCA rebranded; it is indeed a Raytheon rebranded RCA. It has the Raytheon logo on the tube base though. (I think that's what it is) However the box says JAN-CRC Raytheon 6AS7, tube base says otherwise.


----------



## Skylab

Tung-sols have a good reputation. For the pair I was willing to go to $50, but no higher. They sold for $54...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tung-sols have a good reputation. For the pair I was willing to go to $50, but no higher. They sold for $54..._

 


 Yeah, I hear the Tung-sols are good 6SN7's, but I have never seen, or read anyone mention their 6AS7's. 

 It's too bad they sold for $4 more, I'm sure they would make a great pair in your 337.


----------



## pataburd

Svetlana 6H13C + Sylvania VT-231 = WOW! : )


----------



## wareagle69

Just got my Darkvoice 336i from a Head-Fi member along with an assortment of tubes. Being very new to the forum and to tube gear, the info on this thread will be of tremendous benefit. What a great resource. This newbie is amazed at the knowledge on display. Many thanks to all who have shared info.


----------



## RogerB

Hey wareagle69!

 You didn't by chance attend Auburn University did you?

 Just wondering,

 Roger


----------



## wareagle69

Yes, I did. Email sent.


----------



## zoomjohn

My experiences with 336i tube-rolling

 Sylvania 1950-60's 6SN7GTB - short tube with yellow label on black bottom: very detailed, good sound over the whole spectrum, bass lacking on stock powertube

 Brimar 6080 powertube - labeled 6080WB BVA foreign, made in USA: dark sounding, as expected from a Brimar, has a very warm sound. Switch from stock tube to this and the whole system suddenly gets all the bass it needs, deep bass tight and plenty (where as before there was like... none)

 Nice combination, although just a little on the dark side for my HD650 on stock cable. So I bought Zu Mobius to 'lite it up' (not here yet).


----------



## pataburd

Never owned the Brimar, but do have the Mullard 6080. Svetlana 6H13C is still my favorite power tube for the Darkvoice 336i.

 I think you mean "bass," not "base," when referring to the low frequencies. : )


----------



## zoomjohn

Yup, bass is what I meant. Whoo... you prefer Svetlana over Mullard eh? I never heard the Mullard 6080, but I'd get my hands on a Mullard that fits the small socket if only I can afford it.


----------



## nick20

Any 5692 owners here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I doubt it, as these tubes are very expensive and generally hard to come by (even on eBay), but thought I'd ask..


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zoomjohn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, bass is what I meant. Whoo... you prefer Svetlana over Mullard eh? I never heard the Mullard 6080, but I'd get my hands on a Mullard that fits the small socket if only I can afford it._

 

Used to run the Mullard CV-181/ECC32 (coke bottle) tube for a 6SN7 replacement in the MPX3--oh, so nice! The Mullard CV-2821/ECC33 (I think) are the direct 6SN7 replacement. The black base version are priced through the roof!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Used to run the Mullard CV-181/ECC32 (coke bottle) tube for a 6SN7 replacement in the MPX3--oh, so nice! The Mullard CV-2821/ECC33 (I think) are the direct 6SN7 replacement. The black base version are priced through the roof!_

 


 This is the one you're talking about, correct?

 There was two on eBay not long ago, I think they sold real close to $180 + like $20 shipping because the seller was located in/near Russia I believe. 


http://tubedepot.com/nos-ecc32.html


----------



## bigman18

What about 5692 red base rca


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigman18* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about 5692 red base rca_

 


 As in... ?

 You own one, or are looking for more information?


----------



## Negatron

After 30 hrs of pink noise I started playing with the Svet OTK 6H13C. Quite a surprise. I had previously settled down with the JAN Blackplate RCA and either the tall triangle plate TungSol GTB's or the tall Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231. That choice is probably due to using rewired 501's with 701 pads rather than using Senns with the DV. The 336i really wakes up the 501's.

 With this setup the 6H13C has the bottom impact of the RCA Jan black and the detail of the GE JAN 6080WC without the sterility. I found the 6080 to be the most detailed of anything yet, but just plain uninspiring, which the amp is not. The Svetlana's are downright panoramic and this combo has a ton of 'air' Sort of reminds me of sitting at the mouth of a 'C' I wouldn't have believed that much change from a cathode follower change if I hadn't heard it. The Jan Hytron is a jewel but I keep going back to the Sylvania or standard TungSol in front with the 501's. Although the Hytron & the 6SN7GT/VT-231 shine beautifully with the Senns..

 I seem to be half a notch off the general consensus about tube choice, yet that's the way my ears work .
 But I'll add my name to the list of those recommending the Svetlana 6H13C's, dirt cheap and worth every penny. It's a very nice tube to plug in once in a while..


----------



## nick20

Thanks for the reply Negatron. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 Where are you getting your 6H13C's from?


----------



## Negatron

Hi Nick, I get them off of ebay. Also the OTK Svetlanas are better tubes. I buy small bulk since they also make great push-Pull triode monoblocks. Paralell both sections (2.5K plate to plate) and its much like having 4 2A3's in an PP amp for a whole lot less money. I have found with Russian tubes, that dealers from the Ukraine rather than the Russian Federation have the fastest shipping and best service for whatever that's worth...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Nick, I get them off of ebay. Also the OTK Svetlanas are better tubes. I buy small bulk since they also make great push-Pull triode monoblocks. Paralell both sections (2.5K plate to plate) and its much like having 4 2A3's in an PP amp for a whole lot less money. I have found with Russian tubes, that dealers from the Ukraine rather than the Russian Federation have the fastest shipping and best service for whatever that's worth..._

 


 I was just going to get them from tubedepot..


 It's like $23 shipped from the US. Since it's like $18 shipped from Russia, I believe, I'll just spend a few more bucks and get it in the US. 


 I thought you found them even cheaper.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I had to ask..


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bigman18* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about 5692 red base rca_

 

They are silly-expensive, if you ask me, especially when you can score a JAN 6SN7 WGTB for under 20 bucks with a little effort. RCA Red Base 5692's sell for around $100 each on EBay. Too rich for my blood for a 6SN7.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was just going to get them from tubedepot..


 It's like $23 shipped from the US. Since it's like $18 shipped from Russia, I believe, I'll just spend a few more bucks and get it in the US. 


 I thought you found them even cheaper.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I had to ask.._

 

I am frequently amazed at what people have the courage to charge for tubes and somewhat surprised that people pay it. I paid $6.50 each for pristine,boxed early '70's Svets. $10 each shipped. I have never paid more than $10 for a 6SN7, that includes BadBoys, VT231's, KenRads and so on. 4 or 5 years ago before everyone jumped on the tube band wagon, NOS 6SN7's could be had for $1-3. New JAN's for 50 cents at Ham meets.
 There are a ton of them out there. I guarantee you, people charging $30 a tube are not paying a fraction of that for them. And there are still honest sellers out there. SEARCH! And please understand, no offense meant.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am frequently amazed at what people have the courage to charge for tubes and somewhat surprised that people pay it. I paid $6.50 each for pristine,boxed early '70's Svets. $10 each shipped. I have never paid more than $10 for a 6SN7, that includes BadBoys, VT231's, KenRads and so on. 4 or 5 years ago before everyone jumped on the tube band wagon, NOS 6SN7's could be had for $1-3. New JAN's for 50 cents at Ham meets.
 There are a ton of them out there. I guarantee you, people charging $30 a tube are not paying a fraction of that for them. And there are still honest sellers out there. SEARCH! And please understand, no offense meant._

 


 Aren't these it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI


 I wish shipping was $2, but it's not. It's $9. Which makes the total $18. I can get these in the US for $2 for more.. 




 No offense taken, but I enjoy searching for these tubes.. and I think you have to understand, supply and demand.


 Sure, you were lucky to find a Kenrad VT231 for $3, but it just won't happen anymore. They are much rarer, and harder to find because there's a lot more users (especially on here with 336i's and PPX3's) who have snatched these up. There's now even less NOS Kenrad tubes, and the price is increased. Like you said, that was 5 years ago. Today, we are in the present, and $30+ for a single VT231 is not uncommon. 

 You paid $1 for a tube that now sells for $20. Or $5 for a tube that sells for $50.. I'm not sure what the big deal is.. A good example is a old vintage car that has 5,000 miles on it, and is fully restored. This $3,000 car back 30 years ago, can now fetch a 6-figure price tag..


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't these it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll....cWAT.m240.lVI


 I wish shipping was $2, but it's not. It's $9. Which makes the total $18. I can get these in the US for $2 for more.. 




 No offense taken, but I enjoy searching for these tubes.. and I think you have to understand, supply and demand.


 Sure, you were lucky to find a Kenrad VT231 for $3, but it just won't happen anymore. They are much rarer, and harder to find because there's a lot more users (especially on here with 336i's and PPX3's) who have snatched these up. There's now even less NOS Kenrad tubes, and the price is increased. Like you said, that was 5 years ago. Today, we are in the present, and $30+ for a single VT231 is not uncommon. 

 You paid $1 for a tube that now sells for $20. Or $5 for a tube that sells for $50.. I'm not sure what the big deal is.. A good example is a old vintage car that has 5,000 miles on it, and is fully restored. This $3,000 car back 30 years ago, can now fetch a 6-figure price tag.._

 

Here is a link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ECC230-6AS7G-6N1...QQcmdZViewItem

 That's $35 total or $8.75 a tube shipped for 4, A deeper search will find them cheaper. There are certainly a few people who woul;d be happy to share the costs. Parcel post is cheap between members. 3 Weeks ago I paid $3 for a Mil boxed JAN KenRad. Brand new. 6SN7's are not rare, 6AS7's are abundant and ther are countless 6080's.

 It is not about supply and demand as much as it is about what the market will bear. I have been building old Harleys for 40+ years. I have small parts I can put on ebay for $50 and have, but if an old riding buddy needs the part he pays $5 because he knows as I do that's what it's worth, since within 2 months if I need to replace it I can get one for that price. and yet ebay will still have them for $50. It's a strange world.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ECC230-6AS7G-6N1...QQcmdZViewItem

 That's $35 total or $8.75 a tube shipped for 4, A deeper search will find them cheaper. There are certainly a few people who woul;d be happy to share the costs. Parcel post is cheap between members. 3 Weeks ago I paid $3 for a Mil boxed JAN KenRad. Brand new. 6SN7's are not rare, 6AS7's are abundant and ther are countless 6080's.

 It is not about supply and demand as much as it is about what the market will bear. I have been building old Harleys for 40+ years. I have small parts I can put on ebay for $50 and have, but if an old riding buddy needs the part he pays $5 because he knows as I do that's what it's worth, since within 2 months if I need to replace it I can get one for that price. and yet ebay will still have them for $50. It's a strange world._

 


 So in order for you to help me out, I need to be your "friend"? Obviously you're not willing to help me out and share your knowledge of where to obtain one of the 6H13C tubes for a cheaper price. I have searched, only 8 pages came up, and I don't know where else to search. Instead of holding back, is it that difficult to share with me "secret" source for a $8 tube?

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?...69837090953494




 Oh well...


----------



## Skylab

Nick, if you want a 6H13C, PM me, I will sell you one for $5 plus the shipping method of your choice.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So in order for you to help me out, I need to be your "friend"? Obviously you're not willing to help me out and share your knowledge of where to obtain one of the 6H13C tubes for a cheaper price. I have searched, only 8 pages came up, and I don't know where else to search. Instead of holding back, is it that difficult to share with me "secret" source for a $8 tube?

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?...69837090953494

 Oh well..._

 

Actually all you would have to do is ask me to mail you one at my cost. Veiled insults over 75 cents are not called for, it was the quickest link I came up with to show you don't need to pay $18 a tube. Also I PM'd you earlier and told you I would dig up a link to a guy with a boatload of NOS tubes selling cheap. 
 Selfish of me to be sure. 

 I suppose I have been put in my place and I will attempt to refrain from trying to help people save $ on tubes so as not to offend those who may spend too much.
 I was not raised in a culture of political correctness and tend to forgert my maners. Appologies.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually all you would have to do is ask me to mail you one at my cost. Veiled insults over 75 cents are not called for, it was the quickest link I came up with to show you don't need to pay $18 a tube. Also I PM'd you earlier and told you I would dig up a link to a guy with a boatload of NOS tubes selling cheap. 
 Selfish of me to be sure. 

 I suppose I have been put in my place and I will attempt to refrain from trying to help people save $ on tubes so as not to offend those who may spend too much.
 I was not raised in a culture of political correctness and tend to forgert my maners. Appologies._

 


 Thank you for your offer and generosity. If all of this is over $.75, then I apologize. I thought _you_ could get them for like a few bucks, so I was anxious to find out more.. but it seemed like you were holding back..


 At this time, I'm not interested in any other tubes. I'm strapped for cash right now, and I'm also trying to build my 8 CD music collection now. I need a lot more music.. buying tubes is addicting, and when I get some extra funds, I'll go on a "tube spree" and pick up a few more. Again, I appreciate your help..

 I hope my attitude won't discourage you from sharing, but it seemed like you were "teasing" me with a few more sentences, one at a time, to getting closer to the "source". I'm not one of the people here who doesn't research, in fact quite the opposite. I may not have discovered the best deals because I have not been around audio for no more than two months, so I'm eager to find out things that can benefit me, and others around me. 



 This is what discourages me.. 

 "...Those of us who have been at it for a long time are not about to post our sources..." 

 I didn't know you had to have an "exclusive membership" to get good deals on tubes. I am sorry for asking, and getting into this.. I am not like this, normally, just ask around.. 


 If you know somebody who's selling 2000 NOS tubes, that can benefit all of us in some way, shape or form, why not let people know here?




 If you are willing to send a 6H13C tube my way for free, I am more than appreciative of your offer, and would welcome the gift with open arms. Just PM me, and I will get my address to you. If not, I totally understand.








 -Nick


----------



## bigman18

I own several 5692 red base they sound great very light hum


----------



## jamesb

Finally upgraded the stock powertube on mine today to a Mullard 6080.
 Though it's only been playing for a few hours so far (was NOS), there is a big difference in the highs - much more sparkle, not in a harsh way though.
 Not sure how much the bass has changed - maybe a little cleaner, i'll have to wait to see if it changes any after longer burn in. (on second thought: there is definitely a bit more bass)
 Also, i've only been listening to my mediocre built in sound card - i'll try the turntable in a while.

 Only downside - doesn't have those sexy curves that the stock tube has.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Only downside - doesn't have those sexy curves that the stock tube has._

 

This is one reason I prefer NOS 6AS7's


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is one reason I prefer NOS 6AS7's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Skylab, Have you noticed any coldness or more specifically a tendency towards extreme accuracy at the expense of 'musicality' with the (GE) 6080WC or is it just my particular combination of gear that gives me that impression?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, Have you noticed any coldness or more specifically a tendency towards extreme accuracy at the expense of 'musicality' with the (GE) 6080WC or is it just my particular combination of gear that gives me that impression?_

 

I agree with you completely, actually. I find almost all 6080's to be far too sterile. The 6AS7 is a much more musical tube, IMO. I have tried GE, RCA and Raytheon 6080's, but none compare to my JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G's. Not even close.


----------



## Negatron

I'm back to running the JAN CRC's also, though blackplate, the jury is still out on the 6H13C's but I'm very impressed by them, I can't wait to build a pair of PP Monoblocks with them. The 6H6P's and the 6H13C's have caused me to re-evaluate previous prejudices regarding the musicality of Russian tubes. Never too old to learn. Thanks for the reply


----------



## AS1

Looks like I'm not the only one impressed by the Svet 6H13C / Sylv 6SN7 combo.
 I was using a Raytheon Uniline GTB in the front. Now with my new DAC2 it became a bit too dark and a bit lacking in air.
 I tried my IBM (made by Sylvania) GTB. I was quickly amazed by the cleanness, veil lifting effect, tight bass, wide and deep soundstage and excellent instrument decay. At the same still enough warmth in there. Very nice.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Until today, I had been fairly satisfied with my GE 6080 rear and RCA 6SN7GBT front. Then, I swapped them both for an RCA 6AS7 rear and Sylvania 6SN7 something-or-other front (chrome-dome) and wow, am I happy I did that...I think I'm gonna stick with this combo...For now...Until someone talks me into a Svtelana and/or Tung-Sol arrangement...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Until today, I had been fairly satisfied with my GE 6080 rear and RCA 6SN7GBT front. Then, I swapped them both for an RCA 6AS7 rear and Sylvania 6SN7 something-or-other front (chrome-dome) and wow, am I happy I did that...I think I'm gonna stick with this combo...For now...Until someone talks me into a Svtelana and/or Tung-Sol arrangement..._

 


 How about trying a RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7... this should top the RCA 6AS7 you currently have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 mMmm.. love this tube..


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about trying a RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7... this should top the RCA 6AS7 you currently have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 mMmm.. love this tube.._

 

If you are lucky, some of the RCA 6AS7's sound the same as the JAN CRC's. Maybe just commercial labled overflow. I've about finished evaluating a Mouse Ear and find it softer and almost difuse compared to the regular TungSol. I didn't pay squat for it, but for those contemplating one, think hard before spending much. But it's a great fix for bad CD's. BTW for those who haven't tried the 1950's tall standard triangular plate TungSols, do so, it's worth it. There are plenty around for cheap. Highly detailed and ambient. And many aren't branded TungSol.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are lucky, some of the RCA 6AS7's sound the same as the JAN CRC's. Maybe just commercial labled overflow. I've about finished evaluating a Mouse Ear and find it softer and almost difuse compared to the regular TungSol. I didn't pay squat for it, but for those contemplating one, think hard before spending much. But it's a great fix for bad CD's. BTW for those who haven't tried the 1950's tall standard triangular plate TungSols, do so, it's worth it. There are plenty around for cheap. Highly detailed and ambient. And many aren't branded TungSol._

 


 I have a RCA 6AS7 gray plate as well, and there's been some audible differene. I havene't been able to pinpoint everything, because I have been limited by my ear ache. 

 Nonetheless, military spec'd tubes generally last a lot longer than normal tubes, because they are usually of better quality (spec'd for military). Right? That in itself would be worthy of chasing one of these down..


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a RCA 6AS7 gray plate as well, and there's been some audible differene. I havene't been able to pinpoint everything, because I have been limited by my ear ache. 

 Nonetheless, military spec'd tubes generally last a lot longer than normal tubes, because they are usually of better quality (spec'd for military). Right? That in itself would be worthy of chasing one of these down.._

 

There is an audible difference between the grey and black plate, Grey seem to be the clear winner but I prefer the black. The JAN tubes are superior without a doubt. But I suspect that more than a few JAN tubes were labeled as the commercial and sold as such simply because of a supply issue with the contractor at the time. I have one standard RCA Electron Tube and one RCA JAN CRC that are identical both in apearance and sound. Just base labeling differences. Learning just who made what tubes for whom and what variations within may be worse than a 2nd year statistics class in clarity.

 The beauty of it all is the sheer abundance of JAN tubes. The Caveat is that there are also warehouses of JAN contractor rejects.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Second day into it and still loving the RCA 6AS7/Sylvania 6SN7 Chrome-Dome combo. BOTH tubes hummed at first, now both are dead silent and singing to me. There is a higher power and it's name is DarkVoice...


----------



## Gollie

My 336i is on the way and I am very green when it comes to this stuff. I have been scouring but I have a headache...please give me a freebee

 The 336i takes 6SN7 (front or back) and what is the other one?

 Will 6SN7G (GT) work in the same location? 

 Thanks,


----------



## Artemio

6SN7 is for the front (the one closer to you with the switch facing you). This is the driver tube.

 6AS7 is the power tube, it is the one in the back. It is bigger as well.

 Yes 6SN7G will work as a driver tube as well (in the front). I'd recommend reading more about both tubes, so you can find out about other ones you can use. For instance instead of the 6AS7 you can use 5998, 421A and 6080.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 336i takes 6SN7 (front or back) and what is the other one?

 Will 6SN7G (GT) work in the same location? 

 Thanks,_

 


 Welcome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 The front tube is a 6SN7 (or 5692) and will accept any tube labeled 6SN7. Either GT, GTA, GTB, or whatever, it will work.

 The rear tube is a 6AS7 (or 6080, 7998). 




 To answer your question, yes. 






 -Nick


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Been waiting for one of those!

 So soooo much to learn...


----------



## nautikal

Without having to read through this entire thread, can anyone recommend me tubes that will make the amp sound more open, lively, and crisp? I know these aren't generally tube characteristics, but I like the tube sound in general. I just want to tone it down a bit and try to negate some of its weaknesses. I'm currently using Slyvania 6SN7GTB and JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G and Skylab had recommended a new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and a 6080 for the power tube. Just wondering if anyone has any other recommendations (not that I doubt Skylab... I just like to do lots of research before I buy something).

 Can't decide between Arietta, Gilmore Lite, and the Darkvoice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Each has their strengths and weaknesses.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautikal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Without having to read through this entire thread, can anyone recommend me tubes that will make the amp sound more open, lively, and crisp? I know these aren't generally tube characteristics, but I like the tube sound in general. I just want to tone it down a bit and try to negate some of its weaknesses. I'm currently using Slyvania 6SN7GTB and JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G and Skylab had recommended a new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and a 6080 for the power tube. Just wondering if anyone has any other recommendations. 

 Can't decide between Arietta, Gilmore Lite, and the Darkvoice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Each has their strengths and weaknesses._

 

His recommendations match my experience. 

 I find the TungSol is similar to the CBS 6SN7GTB and very detailed (I'm saving it for later), but the Hytron brown base 5692 is a little warmer (and more costly) with slightly bigger soundstage. 

 Similarly the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G is warmer and more open than the Raytheon 6080, which is closer to SS sounding. The CBS/Raytheon combo sounded almost like my iBasso D1 with AD797 opamp, when either was driven by my iBasso DAC.

 Both setups sound good, and I started with the cooler CBS 6SN7/Raytheon 6080 (at the time my only black plate RCA 6AS7G was damaged so I switched to the 6080), but I've settled on the warmer Hytron 5692 / JAN CRC 6AS7G in my 336i.


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautikal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Without having to read through this entire thread, can anyone recommend me tubes that will make the amp sound more open, lively, and crisp? I know these aren't generally tube characteristics, but I like the tube sound in general. I just want to tone it down a bit and try to negate some of its weaknesses. I'm currently using Slyvania 6SN7GTB and JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7G and Skylab had recommended a new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB and a 6080 for the power tube. Just wondering if anyone has any other recommendations (not that I doubt Skylab... I just like to do lots of research before I buy something).

 Can't decide between Arietta, Gilmore Lite, and the Darkvoice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Each has their strengths and weaknesses._

 

I am using Marantz CC4001 > Beresford MK6 > Darkvoice 336i (Front: Sylvania 6SN7GTB Rear: Sylvania 6AS7G) > Grado RS-1

 I am still waiting for RCA red base 5692, but I like the current equip/tube setup. The sound is very clean and crisp.

 I have the following rear tubes... sound described by pataburd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 RCA 6AS7G gray plate Smooth, open and spacious sound. <- felt warm and smooth.
 Svetlana 6H13C Very balanced, neutral and musical sound. <- felt somewhere between RAC and Sylv?
 Sylvania 6AS7G Clean, detailed and dynamic sound. <- currently using

 The RAC's sound is too warm/smooth for me PERSONALLY. Sylvania falls in my listening preference. Not sure how I would compare the two... perhaps RCA left like Senn HD-650 while Sylvania felt like Grado RS-1? 

 Does anyone recommand any tube that enhance the characteristic of Sylvania 6As7G even more?


----------



## Skylab

If you want a livelier/crisper sound, use a 6080 tube in back for the power tube instead of the 6AS7. 6080's are also cheap, so playing around with them isn't expensive. Try to get a Raytheon.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Amen, 'lab. I'm currently running a RCA 6SN7 GT - JAN VT231 dark glass / Philips ECG JAN 6080 WC combo. Very nice sound. Warm/crisp/punchy.

 Never crunchy


----------



## Gollie

Decisions...Decisions

 Do you guys buy used tubes off ebay?

 For the untrained eye they all look acceptable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




_Got it thanx_


----------



## Brewmaster

I've got a JAN Sylvania 6080 in the back and it is very detailed sounding with great soundstage.


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want a livelier/crisper sound, use a 6080 tube in back for the power tube instead of the 6AS7. 6080's are also cheap, so playing around with them isn't expensive. Try to get a Raytheon._

 

any recommendation to go with the 6080 for the front driver tube instead of Sylvania 6SN7GTB or RCA 5692 red base?

 P.S. can someone PM me (don't want to derail thread) any link that has information about leading/driver tube and power tube (what they actually do to the sound)? All I know is that (and I don't even think what I know is right.) the front/lead tube acts like a driver (software) while the rear/power tube acts like a actual CPU (Hardware). But it seems that the rear tube plays a bigger role in the result of the sound you hear. (crisp/warm/balanced/textured etc)


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any recommendation to go with the 6080 for the front driver tube instead of Sylvania 6SN7GTB or RCA 5692 red base?

 P.S. can someone PM me (don't want to derail thread) any link that has information about leading/driver tube and power tube (what they actually do to the sound)? All I know is that (and I don't even think what I know is right.) the front/lead tube acts like a driver (software) while the rear/power tube acts like a actual CPU (Hardware). But it seems that the rear tube plays a bigger role in the result of the sound you hear. (crisp/warm/balanced/textured etc)_

 

Whoever sends him this message, please send it to me also.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Decisions...Decisions

 Do you guys buy used tubes off ebay?

 For the untrained eye they all look acceptable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I buy tubes off Ebay all the time, with about 90% good results, but I have a tube tester...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any recommendation to go with the 6080 for the front driver tube instead of Sylvania 6SN7GTB or RCA 5692 red base?

 P.S. can someone PM me (don't want to derail thread) any link that has information about leading/driver tube and power tube (what they actually do to the sound)? All I know is that (and I don't even think what I know is right.) the front/lead tube acts like a driver (software) while the rear/power tube acts like a actual CPU (Hardware). But it seems that the rear tube plays a bigger role in the result of the sound you hear. (crisp/warm/balanced/textured etc)_

 

I am almost 100% sure you CANNOT use a 6080 as the driver tube. Don't try it. Could fry the amp.

 I think both the driver and the power tube effect the sound, BTW.


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I buy tubes off Ebay all the time, with about 90% good results, but I have a tube tester...

 I am almost 100% sure you CANNOT use a 6080 as the driver tube. Don't try it. Could fry the amp.

 I think both the driver and the power tube effect the sound, BTW._

 

a tube tester... *adds to 'To buy list'"
 I meant -> What would be a good driver tube to pair up with the 6080's crisp sound? 

 Most of the time when I read about tube rolling.. I see more comments on the sound produced by the rear/power tube than the front/driver tube while I see more money are spent on the front tube when I shop around.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want a livelier/crisper sound, use a 6080 tube in back for the power tube instead of the 6AS7. 6080's are also cheap, so playing around with them isn't expensive. Try to get a Raytheon._

 

I just said something to that effect in the post right above his


----------



## Skylab

Now I have a question: has anyone ever tried a 6SL7 in the driver position on this amp? It's higher gain than the 6SN7, not sure if it would work. I plunked down $50 for a NOS black-glass Tung Sol JAN-CTL 6SL7GT for the Singlepower Extreme, and WOW - holy poop - beats the pants off the Tung Sol 6SN7GTB. I wonder if a 6SL7 can be used safely in a 336i...


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a tube tester... *adds to 'To buy list'"
 I meant -> What would be a good driver tube to pair up with the 6080's crisp sound? 

 Most of the time when I read about tube rolling.. I see more comments on the sound produced by the rear/power tube than the front/driver tube while I see more money are spent on the front tube when I shop around._

 

Personally I love the old Sylvania's with 6080 in the back.
 Currently using a 6sn7WGTA with a brown base, parallel black triangular plates.


----------



## Gollie

6AS7 must be a popular tube. Demand is driving up the cost. I picked up a Raytheon 6080 WA to try out and from what I see RCA JAN 6AS7G is well recieved (trying to find an afordable one). Anyone have another power tube recomendation?

 Thanks,


----------



## Jo6Pak

Speaking of 6080 'WA'. How much, if any, concern are the suffix letters as long as the base tube numbers are the same (6080 vs 6080WA and 6SN7, 6SN7GT, 6SN7GTB, for examples)?

 THANKS!


----------



## Jo6Pak

Nevermind, I found the answer:

Justin Holton's Vacuum Tube / Valve Amp FAQ


----------



## Skylab

There is no operating difference between the 6SN7GT or GTB (I don't think there actually is a 6SN7 without GT or GTB). Pretty sure there are very slight differences in the 6080 versus WA and WC, but meaningless for the 336i.

 The 6AS7 hasn't gotten that expensive - I have had trouble selling them in my F/S ad in the Tweaks F/S forum for $10!!!


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is no operating difference between the 6SN7GT or GTB (I don't think there actually is a 6SN7 without GT or GTB). Pretty sure there are very slight differences in the 6080 versus WA and WC, but meaningless for the 336i.

 The 6AS7 hasn't gotten that expensive - I have had trouble selling them in my F/S ad in the Tweaks F/S forum for $10!!!_

 

Actually there is a slight difference in operating points between the GT and GTB. The GT has a max plate voltage of 300v where the GTB was increased to 450v as well as increased plate dissipation.

 One other difference that could have an effect in a direct coupled drive is that the B designates controlled heater warm up time (11 sec.) Thus if your output section depends on the front end for bias voltage, with the 'B', the output stage grid will see the front end max supply voltage until it's warmup. 

 There are also GTA's but not as common ( High plate V, fast heater). 
 In the 336i it makes no difference. Ahh! So many combinations, so little time......


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6AS7 must be a popular tube. Demand is driving up the cost. I picked up a Raytheon 6080 WA to try out and from what I see RCA JAN 6AS7G is well recieved (trying to find an afordable one). Anyone have another power tube recomendation?

 Thanks,_

 

The 6AS7 is not really in short supply, the cost has gone up in Head-Fi circles and supply outlets because of the use in 'phone amps but that is a niche market. Also, there are warehouses full of JAN 6080's. There is no shortage of that tube, but it's to sterile for my tastes. The non JAN RCA is a very nice sounding tube, don't sell it short, they are not that expensive and will last years at the point the DV runs it at. That tube can run far more current than it is used at in the 336i.

 As for the 6SN7's, Sylvania, RCA, Tung Sol & GE made tubes for loads of outlets, learn to identify the construction. The chrome top Sylvania, labeled Acme Tube Company is EXACTLY the same tube for $4
 I've bought Tung Sol Mouse ears for $2 with odd names I never heard of.. Sylvania labeled tubes for Magnavox, Philco, Wards,. Sears -on and on. There are a ton of them out there and as long as people insist on Boutique tubes, My supply is secure. Read this whole thread, it is full of valuable info and then SEARCH...


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the clarification on the 6SN7. And I agree, the non-JAN RCA-brand 6AS7's sound excellent, and are easier to find and cheaper than the military versions.


----------



## rivieraranch

I have heard good things about the Russian Military version denoted as 6H8C as a substitute for the 6SN7, and the 6H13C as a replacement for the 6AS7. Who sells these?


----------



## Skylab

Those can easily be bought on EBay. Personally I much prefer the US tubes, though.


----------



## Negatron

It's easiest to find sellers on Ebay. Also search substituting the H for an N, the H is Cyrilic and they are listed both ways. I have found that dealers from the Ukraine have the fastest shipping. I think the Russian Federation tows mail carts behind turtles. You may consider buying in lots of 4 minimum to save shipping, there are bound to be people here who will be interested in the tubes.

 Also just my opinion but the standard 6H8C is pretty un-inspiring. However, the one with the Metal base is a great tube if you can find one at a reasonable price but good luck if it is defective. The 6H13C is also pretty sterile but has a good bottom end. But Skylab about summed it up.


----------



## Jo6Pak

I have a Svetlana on order from the Russian seller. Just had to see (hear) for myself and satisfy my curiosity. At $17 shipped, couldn't resist...


----------



## Gollie

The only tube I have tried so far is the RCA 6SN7 GTB Black base. It sounds amazing while listening to R&B because the bass hits deep. I'm using DT770 80 ohm so that might be why is sounds a BIT like car sub bass (not quite what i'm looking for). I don't like this tube as much as my stock 336i tube for classical music as it puts to much emphasis on the mid's/low's. Might be a good tube to use for gaming. I've only got about 10hours on it so far. The hum has subsided and I think it is starting to reviel its true character. 

 The soundstage is not completly quite quiet as of yet but my DAC won't be here till ~Thursday. I'll start burning my chrome cap Silvertone GTB next. I'd like a more balanced tube that I can enjoy classical as well as R&B. Let the search continue...


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only tube I have tried so far is the RCA 6SN7 GTB Black base. It sounds amazing while listening to R&B because the bass hits deep. I'm using DT770 80 ohm so that might be why is sounds a BIT like car sub bass (not quite what i'm looking for). I don't like this tube as much as my stock 336i tube for classical music as it puts to much emphasis on the mid's/low's. Might be a good tube to use for gaming. I've only got about 10hours on it so far. The hum has subsided and I think it is starting to reviel its true character. 

 The soundstage is not completly quite quiet as of yet but my DAC won't be here till ~Thursday. I'll start burning my chrome cap Silvertone GTB next. I'd like a more balanced tube that I can enjoy classical as well as R&B. Let the search continue..._

 

Gollie, your Silvertone is a Sylvania Chrome top labeled for Montgomery Wards in the 50's. I think you will find it to your liking with classical and vocals once it breaks in, if it isn't already. It does well with the stock tube but really accents the RCA 6AS7. You have a good start.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have heard good things about the Russian Military version denoted as 6H8C as a substitute for the 6SN7, and the 6H13C as a replacement for the 6AS7. Who sells these?_

 

I won an auction for several New Old Stock Russian Tubes 6N8S. The seller says it is direct replacement of 6SN7, 6SN7GT. These Tubes was made by famous "Reflector" military plant in Russia, Saratov City. Date: February/March, 1965. The seller said these were "Good quality, the Sound is nice - authentic vintage tone! "OTK" marking, indicates premium military grade tubes."

 I planned to go ahead and try one of these, but can't see how it could be better than my Hytron 5692 brown base, at 1/10 the cost of the Hytron. I'd be happy to sell you one for $10 shipped us postal to try out.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I won an auction for several New Old Stock Russian Tubes 6N8S. The seller says it is direct replacement of 6SN7, 6SN7GT. These Tubes was made by famous "Reflector" military plant in Russia, Saratov City. Date: February/March, 1965. The seller said these were "Good quality, the Sound is nice - authentic vintage tone! "OTK" marking, indicates premium military grade tubes."

 I planned to go ahead and try one of these, but can't see how it could be better than my Hytron 5692 brown base, at 1/10 the cost of the Hytron. I'd be happy to sell you one for $10 shipped us postal to try out._

 

Thank you for such a generous offer. Could you send me a personal message when you receive these tubes.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a Svetlana on order from the Russian seller. Just had to see (hear) for myself and satisfy my curiosity. At $17 shipped, couldn't resist..._

 

It is evident that the stock of good, clean, decent American NOS tubes have all been bought. What you see on ebay is mostly the drek pulled from old equipment, taken from garages, workshops, attics and other moldy places. Folks are hoarding stuff because there is a finite supply of it. Now these Soviet tubes, while obviously plentiful, if any good their supply will diminish, too. If you like them might as well buy more.


----------



## nautikal

I swapped in the 6080 power tube (a Sylvania) and I just wanted to thank you guys for making my decision on whether to keep the Arietta, Darkvoice, or Gilmore Lite even harder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is evident that the stock of good, clean, decent American NOS tubes have all been bought._

 

Wrong.

  Quote:


 What you see on ebay is mostly the drek pulled from old equipment, taken from garages, workshops, attics and other moldy places. 
 

Wrong. 

  Quote:


 Folks are hoarding stuff because there is a finite supply of it. 
 

Wrong.

  Quote:


 Now these Soviet tubes, while obviously plentiful, if any good their supply will diminish, too. If you like them might as well buy more. 
 

I bought one, because they're cheap and I'm curious, Bro', nothing more. However, if I so choose, I will buy every last one of them on the f'ing planet.

 What, exactly, are you driving at? If I mistakenly took your message to be instigative, lo siento, but it sounds like you're pissed about something and if so, leave me out of it...


----------



## Gollie

Is anyone running a Red Base RCA 5692 Military or non-Military. I'd like to hear an opinion before I drop $60 on one.

 Right now im running a Chrome top Sylvania and it sounds great with the stock power tube. My RCA 6AS7G will be here tomorrow or Wednesday but i've read a lot of information saying the Red Base tubes are in short supply.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wrong.

 Wrong. 

 Wrong.

 I bought one, because they're cheap and I'm curious, Bro', nothing more. However, if I so choose, I will buy every last one of them on the f'ing planet.

 What, exactly, are you driving at? If I mistakenly took your message to be instigative, lo siento, but it sounds like you're pissed about something and if so, leave me out of it..._

 

Joe, the more people who think the tubes are dried up ain't out looking and make it alot easier for you and me searching to get cheaper tubes from the thousands left. Be very glad!


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone running a Red Base RCA 5692 Military or non-Military. I'd like to hear an opinion before I drop $60 on one.

 Right now im running a Chrome top Sylvania and it sounds great with the stock power tube. My RCA 6AS7G will be here tomorrow or Wednesday but i've read a lot of information saying the Red Base tubes are in short supply._

 

If you pay that make sure you get a guarantee. As to the tube being in short supply , they are. Untill you get an old TV repairmans 'tube caddy' full of tubes at a garage sale for $15 and find 2 inside along with more 'goldmine' tubes.

 PS: I new you'd like the chrome top.


----------



## gulice

anyone know of any stores in LA which sell good tubes for the 336?


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you pay that make sure you get a guarantee. As to the tube being in short supply , they are. Untill you get an old TV repairmans 'tube caddy' full of tubes at a garage sale for $15 and find 2 inside along with more 'goldmine' tubes.

 PS: I new you'd like the chrome top._

 

I guess I will continue to hunt. 

 I want back and read through this thread and there seems to be a lot of happy DV users and noone really talks about the Red Base...I think ima get one just cause though. Hopefully I can find a good deal.

 <3 Negatron


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I will continue to hunt. 

 I want back and read through this thread and there seems to be a lot of happy DV users and noone really talks about the Red Base...I think ima get one just cause though. Hopefully I can find a good deal.

 <3 Negatron_

 


 I know Skylab (Rob) owns at least one, and he's very happy with it. It's regarded as "cream of the crop" 6SN7/5692's for sure. 

 I would assume "NOS" RCA 5692's are in short supply. I've seen quite a few used ones.. but the NOS call for a higher price, which is somewhere around $100-$120 a piece. 







 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I will continue to hunt. 

 I want back and read through this thread and there seems to be a lot of happy DV users and noone really talks about the Red Base...I think ima get one just cause though. Hopefully I can find a good deal._

 

Gollie, there are several items often neglected in this forum that have a major impact in what you hear when you are auditioning tubes. First is establishing a baseline. Get to know what your amp sounds like with a range of music and sources. That is to say, use your 6AS7 RCA and the Chrome top or RCA 6SN7 for a while and get to know the sound of the detail, the air around instruments, what reflected sound is like in a given recording. Then you have a solid reference to compare what a tube sounds like to YOU. Not everyone has the same preference. When you go to a live concert, what you hear 6 feet from the stage 6 feet right of center is not what the person 15 feet back 8 feet to the left hears. Neither is 'right' nor is one better than the other, just different. you both heard and enjoyed the same music but your experience was slightly differing.

 The second thing and I can not stress this enough, is power source. The 120v AC that comes from the wall is full of garbage and a cheap filter will not help other than psychologically. As a test, listen to something you are very familiar with at 4PM, listen for a few instances of particular detail, write it down if you want. Then do the same exact thing at 4AM. You may be surprised. If nothing else, if you have a computer plugged into the same outlet as the amp and CD or DAC , get it plugged in to a different circuit. Something on a separate circuit breaker. Use a heavy gauge extension cord if you have to for the computer. The computer switching power supply is kicking back EMI into the power line and it is not good for audio.

 Quality power filters are expensive, used industrial ferro-resonant transformers filters are far cheaper but frequently more expensive to ship (very heavy) than they cost on ebay, but well worth it compared to out-of-the-wall power. 5 to 10 amps should be sufficient, but a minimum of at least twice what your maximum draw is.

 With clean voltage powering your amp and source, you will better hear the subtleties the different tubes impart to the music. Quite a few people are busier swapping tubes than they are listening to music, try to avoid that trap. Know what you have, then tweak it.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wrong.



 Wrong. 



 Wrong.



 I bought one, because they're cheap and I'm curious, Bro', nothing more. However, if I so choose, I will buy every last one of them on the f'ing planet.

 What, exactly, are you driving at? If I mistakenly took your message to be instigative, lo siento, but it sounds like you're pissed about something and if so, leave me out of it..._

 

You _were_ mistaken. I am not pissed, just very dispassionate about these glass bottles. I _could_ be wrong, but you should explain why.


----------



## Skylab

Actually I do not own a RCA Red base 5692. I have bought 2, both were bad, and both were returned for refund. I hope to have one in here soon. 

 I do have a CBS brown-base 5692, and it is the nicest 6SN7 variant I have heard so far. But I have some RCA VT231's on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For now I am using a wonderful Ked-Rad 6SL7GT (L, not N) in my SP Extreme. Not sure if the 336 will tolerate a 6SL7, tho.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You were mistaken. I am not pissed, just very dispassionate about these glass bottles. I could be wrong, but you should explain why._

 

Sorry for mis-interpreting your post. I guess I was the one who was in a pissy mood...


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I do not own a RCA Red base 5692. I have bought 2, both were bad, and both were returned for refund. I hope to have one in here soon. 

 I do have a CBS brown-base 5692, and it is the nicest 6SN7 variant I have heard so far. But I have some RCA VT231's on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_

 


 I'll stay on the lookout for a good deal on one of these.

Electro Harmonix 6SN7 / 6SN7GT Gold Pins tubes, NEW - (eBay item 150190366735 end time Dec-11-07 10:52:21 PST) 

 Looks interesting...anyone tried one of these?


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I do not own a RCA Red base 5692. I have bought 2, both were bad, and both were returned for refund. I hope to have one in here soon._

 

That's very typical of the Red Base. It seems years ago someone came across a warehouse full of un-destroyed rejects and they are still floating around. Anyone getting a Red Base should make sure there is a guarantee.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do have a CBS brown-base 5692, and it is the nicest 6SN7 variant I have heard so far. But I have some RCA VT231's on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's just possible you may be about to discover Audio Nirvana. I prefer them to the Hytron (which I also really like) YMMV

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For now I am using a wonderful Ked-Rad 6SL7GT (L, not N) in my SP Extreme. Not sure if the 336 will tolerate a 6SL7, tho._

 

With the 336i, the increased current through the 6AS7 from the direct coupling may be a bit much for the amp. Caution!


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll stay on the lookout for a good deal on one of these.

Electro Harmonix 6SN7 / 6SN7GT Gold Pins tubes, NEW - (eBay item 150190366735 end time Dec-11-07 10:52:21 PST) 

 Looks interesting...anyone tried one of these?_

 

The EH's may be the one tube on the planet where the Hum will not go away.
 You may want to let someone else be the 'Beta Tester'

 Note: The internal structure looks to be identical to the standard EH's


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for all of that excellent info, Negatron!

 And yes, I have a EH 6SN7, which came with the 336 when I had one, and it's awful.


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The second thing and I can not stress this enough, is power source. The 120v AC that comes from the wall is full of garbage and a cheap filter will not help other than psychologically. As a test, listen to something you are very familiar with at 4PM, listen for a few instances of particular detail, write it down if you want. Then do the same exact thing at 4AM. You may be surprised. If nothing else, if you have a computer plugged into the same outlet as the amp and CD or DAC , get it plugged in to a different circuit. Something on a separate circuit breaker. Use a heavy gauge extension cord if you have to for the computer. The computer switching power supply is kicking back EMI into the power line and it is not good for audio.

 Quality power filters are expensive, used industrial ferro-resonant transformers filters are far cheaper but frequently more expensive to ship (very heavy) than they cost on ebay, but well worth it compared to out-of-the-wall power. 5 to 10 amps should be sufficient, but a minimum of at least twice what your maximum draw is.

 With clean voltage powering your amp and source, you will better hear the subtleties the different tubes impart to the music. Quite a few people are busier swapping tubes than they are listening to music, try to avoid that trap. Know what you have, then tweak it._

 

I learned a long time ago that plugging my high quality electronics directly into the wall is HUGE NO NO! Currently, I have my PC, Amp and some of my other good equipment plugged into my battery backup. I THINK it provides a steady stream of power. I have been on my PC several times during brown-outs and full on power outages and my screen never even flickered. The alarm on my backup starts going crazy but I don't lose power.

FRYS.com*|*APC

 is the link to what I am currently using. 

 Look sufficient?!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I learned a long time ago that plugging my high quality electronics directly into the wall is HUGE NO NO! Currently, I have my PC, Amp and some of my other good equipment plugged into my battery backup. I THINK it provides a steady stream of power. I have been on my PC several times during brown-outs and full on power outages and my screen never even flickered. The alarm on my backup starts going crazy but I don't lose power.

FRYS.com*|*APC

 is the link to what I am currently using. 

 Look sufficient?!_

 



 It seems I have learned just the opposite. I plug my audio equipment (two pieces) directly into the wall. 

 I skipped over the "cheap" UPS/surge protector/line conditioner and I'm waiting for a PS Audio receptacles and PS Audio "Ultimate Outlet"



 I moved my computer into a spare bedroom, and unplugged everything that was where my amp/CDP are now, somewhere else in my room. 




 No "cheapy" surge/UPS/conditioners for me. I've read too many horror stories on these. And how they can actually degrade the SQ.. too risky if you ask me.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I do not own a RCA Red base 5692. I have bought 2, both were bad, and both were returned for refund. I hope to have one in here soon. 

 I do have a CBS brown-base 5692, and it is the nicest 6SN7 variant I have heard so far. But I have some RCA VT231's on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For now I am using a wonderful Ked-Rad 6SL7GT (L, not N) in my SP Extreme. Not sure if the 336 will tolerate a 6SL7, tho._

 


 My apologies Rob. I thought you had at least one on hand...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I do not own a RCA Red base 5692. I have bought 2, both were bad, and both were returned for refund. I hope to have one in here soon. 

 I do have a CBS brown-base 5692, and it is the nicest 6SN7 variant I have heard so far. But I have some RCA VT231's on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For now I am using a wonderful Ked-Rad 6SL7GT (L, not N) in my SP Extreme. Not sure if the 336 will tolerate a 6SL7, tho._

 

I bought that same Hytron (cbs) brown-base 5692 per skylab's recommendation, and it is my favorite and is in my DV336i right now.

 I have it paired with a JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G power tube in the rear, as this combo was warmer and more open than my regular RCA 6AS7G and regular CBS 6SN7GTB - the later sounded very much like my iBasso D1 with AD797 opamps, which is to say excellent, just not quite as warm and open but more poppin and detailed (closer to a good SS).


----------



## Gollie

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 No "cheapy" surge/UPS/conditioners for me. I've read too many horror stories on these. And how they can actually degrade the SQ.. too risky if you ask me._

 


 So what i'm understanding is...you plug your audio equipment directly into the wall?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is better than a UPS? Line from wall > battery > battery provides power usually between 119 and 121. My Asus MB's don't like brown outs or surges. I lost 2 Asus and 2 Gigabyte MB's and after about 6-700 dollars I figured it would save me money to invest in a UPS. I have not had one problem with shorts or damaged parts since (~3 years).

 I would like to hear exactly how you protect your equipment if you don't use a battery backup. It regulates the power and you get a constant voltage...correct? There is absolutely NO WAY you are getting constant voltage out of the wall, especially if you live in a residential area and for sure if you live in an apartment building.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what i'm understanding is...you plug your audio equipment directly into the wall?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is better than a UPS? Line from wall > battery > battery provides power usually between 119 and 121. My Asus MB's don't like brown outs or surges. I lost 2 Asus and 2 Gigabyte MB's and after about 6-700 dollars I figured it would save me money to invest in a UPS. I have not had one problem with shorts or damage parts since (~3 years).

 I would like to hear exactly how you protect your equipment if you don't use a battery backup. It regulates the power and you get a constant voltage...correct? There is absolutely NO WAY you are getting constant voltage out of the wall, especially if you live in a residential area and for sure if you live in an apartment building._

 


 Yes I do, as do many people here. UPS/surge protectors, and cheap line conditioners can and usually degrade the SQ. I think you are the only one who uses a UPS. I know of quite a few people who use surge protectors, and even fewer who use a quality line conditoners. It's often recommended to skip the UPS's all together, and even cheap line conditioners. 


 The only thing you're using the UPS for is battery backup? The model you're using only offers a whopping 320 joules. The one I have on my computer is around 7000 joules. 320 joules isn't going to help against a surge. So I can't see why you're using it for surge protection.. If you're running a full load on your UPS you get a 5 minutes of run-time. I listen to my system mostly at night, and I have no problems at all. 


 The next upgrade I plan on getting is a PS Audio receptacle to replace the one in the wall, a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet for line conditioning, and PS Audio Juice Bar to add additional outlets.



 EDIT: This discussion doesn't really belong here.. if you'd like to further discuss it, create a thread, or search around about UPS's here.

 I don't know too much about this stuff, however I know UPS's aren't recommended around here. I just read, and try to understand.. So far, I have been plugging everything directly into the wall.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You were mistaken. I am not pissed, just very dispassionate about these glass bottles. I could be wrong, but you should explain why._

 

One thing I will say, somewhat on your behalf, is that after having tried a few different tube combos, I really haven't been able to discern an audible difference in any of them (so far anyway, I still have a few more tubes I have not installed yet). The one possible exception might be the stock tubes as I don't think they were anything to write home about. 

 For the past several weeks I've had an RCA 6AS7 (never did determine whether it has grey or black plates) paired with a Sylvania 'chrome dome'. Sounded pretty good that way, but knowing (?) there is always something better, last weekend I swapped out the 6AS7 for a US Navy/Raytheon 6080WA. The most I could say is that it may be _slightly_ brighter, but that may also be my imagination. 

 I have a new-production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB for the front slot that I will try with the Raytheon 6080 next. I still have not tried my RCA 'dark glass' or 'grey glass' (whatever it is, 6SN7xx) in the front with anything. As mentioned in an earlier post, I also have a big Svetlana on order from Russia for the rear slot.

 So, I can't actually say my tube-rolling experiences thus far have been a _total_ disappointment, especially since I have not yet exhausted all the possibilities in my current stash.

*HOWEVER: I fear the reason I have not and may not achieve the WOW! factor that some people on this forum have expressed, is because I only buy the CHEAP TUBES.*

 Does one _really_ need to invest in $50, $100 or more for individual tubes to bring the 336i up to its full potential?

 So far, the most I have spent on any single tube has been $20, including shipping. All tubes have been recommended on this forum, so I wasn't just ordering things randomly.

 On the other hand, the 336i may just not be that great of an amp in the grand scheme of things.

 I enjoy buying and swapping tubes, but I hope it eventually leads to somewhere better than things are at present.

 I'd like to hear some thoughts on high-dollar tubes (some examples, please) and whether or not that is the route I should be taking with this amp or if I might be better off looking at an upgrade (332 or 337 perhaps). For that matter, it has been suggested that my DAC may be holding things back. 

 Lastly, I don't hate this amp, I actually like it alot. I just thought the tube-rolling would have yielded better results.

 THANKS!


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmm...I find the 6AS7 and 6080 sound pretty different. I prefer the 6AS7, but they do sound different to me. Did you listen to each for an extended period of time? Sometimes it takes a while to discern these things.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll stay on the lookout for a good deal on one of these.

Electro Harmonix 6SN7 / 6SN7GT Gold Pins tubes, NEW - (eBay item 150190366735 end time Dec-11-07 10:52:21 PST) 

 Looks interesting...anyone tried one of these?_

 

I read that they hum and buzz . . .


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I will say, somewhat on your behalf, is that after having tried a few different tube combos, I really haven't been able to discern an audible difference in any of them (so far anyway, I still have a few more tubes I have not installed yet). The one possible exception might be the stock tubes as I don't think they were anything to write home about._

 


 Like Skylab mentioned, it will take time, and experience. Give it some more time... it will grow on you. I promise.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the past several weeks I've had an RCA 6AS7 (never did determine whether it has grey or black plates) paired with a Sylvania 'chrome dome'. Sounded pretty good that way, but knowing (?) there is always something better, last weekend I swapped out the 6AS7 for a US Navy/Raytheon 6080WA. The most I could say is that it may be slightly brighter, but that may also be my imagination._

 


 There will ALWAYS be something bigger, and better, but at a cost. Of which most people aren't willing to pay. So they settle for something in the middle. Good price/performance ratio tubes..

 Usually, when you start spending more than $25 a tube, the price/performance ratio starts to deplete. It kind of like having the option of getting cloth seats in your car, or leather seats. To some, the difference to have leather is worth it, and to some, who'd like to save some money, get the cloth seats. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a new-production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB for the front slot that I will try with the Raytheon 6080 next. I still have not tried my RCA 'dark glass' or 'grey glass' (whatever it is, 6SN7xx) in the front with anything. As mentioned in an earlier post, I also have a big Svetlana on order from Russia for the rear slot._

 


 My advice to you, save the gray class RCA. You'll appreciate it after you get used to tubes.. it's really a great sounding tube. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I can't actually say my tube-rolling experiences thus far have been a total disappointment, especially since I have not yet exhausted all the possibilities in my current stash._

 


 I would get a SOLID listen of all the tubes in your current stash before you buy another tube. Maybe listen for a month. Swap out different tubes every few days. For instance, listen to one tube for a few days, then swap it out. Keeping the rear RCA tube you have, in there. When you get done swapping out all the front's, then try swapping out the rear tubes. 

 At least this is how I _would_ have done it when I got mine, however I was spoiled with quite a few tubes when I bought my 336i used. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*HOWEVER: I fear the reason I have not and may not achieve the WOW! factor that some people on this forum have expressed, is because I only buy the CHEAP TUBES.*_

 

Cheap does not always mean "crap". Just because they are cheap doesn't mean they don't sound good, or are an improvement over stock tubes. On the contrary, expensive doesn't always dictate "best sound" either. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does one really need to invest in $50, $100 or more for individual tubes to bring the 336i up to its full potential?_

 


 No. Not IMO. However this amp DOES sound awesome when rolled with some very nice tubes. This does not mean you NEED to spend high-end dollars to achieve high-end results. For instance you can usually find the smoked glass RCA for about $20, which is one of the better 6SN7's out there.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far, the most I have spent on any single tube has been $20, including shipping. All tubes have been recommended on this forum, so I wasn't just ordering things randomly._

 


 Each person is using a different setup, different equipment, different budgets, uses different music, and has different ears. This is all needs to be accounted for when reading "impressions". 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I enjoy buying and swapping tubes, but I hope it eventually leads to somewhere better than things are at present._

 


 Patience is key.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd like to hear some thoughts on high-dollar tubes (some examples, please) and whether or not that is the route I should be taking with this amp or if I might be better off looking at an upgrade (332 or 337 perhaps). For that matter, it has been suggested that my DAC may be holding things back._

 


 This ultimately depends on your budget and how much you're willing to spend. 

 It is up to you if you want to upgrade. I'm likely not going to be able to "tube roll" a more expensive amp because my budget simply won't allow. 


 For instance, I'm willing to bet, a 336i outfitted with some really good tubes is likely on par SQ wise as a stock 332, if not slightly better. I can tell you the 5998 tube I have is just plain AWESOME. I was lucky, and scored one cheaper than the going rate of about $40-60 a tube. I would pay that price in a heartbeat.. this tube is worth it *to me, in my system, and to my ears*. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lastly, I don't hate this amp, I actually like it alot. I just thought the tube-rolling would have yielded better results.
 THANKS!_

 


 I'm glad you like it. It's an excellent amp IMO. Again, I think with time, you will get a better understanding of tubes, and how they sound. They are such an incredible piece of equipment. 



 Good luck on your "tube expedition". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











 -Nick


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing I will say, somewhat on your behalf, is that after having tried a few different tube combos, I really haven't been able to discern an audible difference in any of them (so far anyway, I still have a few more tubes I have not installed yet). The one possible exception might be the stock tubes as I don't think they were anything to write home about. 

 For the past several weeks I've had an RCA 6AS7 (never did determine whether it has grey or black plates) paired with a Sylvania 'chrome dome'. Sounded pretty good that way, but knowing (?) there is always something better, last weekend I swapped out the 6AS7 for a US Navy/Raytheon 6080WA. The most I could say is that it may be slightly brighter, but that may also be my imagination. 

 I have a new-production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB for the front slot that I will try with the Raytheon 6080 next. I still have not tried my RCA 'dark glass' or 'grey glass' (whatever it is, 6SN7xx) in the front with anything. As mentioned in an earlier post, I also have a big Svetlana on order from Russia for the rear slot.

 So, I can't actually say my tube-rolling experiences thus far have been a total disappointment, especially since I have not yet exhausted all the possibilities in my current stash.

*HOWEVER: I fear the reason I have not and may not achieve the WOW! factor that some people on this forum have expressed, is because I only buy the CHEAP TUBES.*

 Does one really need to invest in $50, $100 or more for individual tubes to bring the 336i up to its full potential?

 So far, the most I have spent on any single tube has been $20, including shipping. All tubes have been recommended on this forum, so I wasn't just ordering things randomly.

 On the other hand, the 336i may just not be that great of an amp in the grand scheme of things.

 I enjoy buying and swapping tubes, but I hope it eventually leads to somewhere better than things are at present.

 I'd like to hear some thoughts on high-dollar tubes (some examples, please) and whether or not that is the route I should be taking with this amp or if I might be better off looking at an upgrade (332 or 337 perhaps). For that matter, it has been suggested that my DAC may be holding things back. 

 Lastly, I don't hate this amp, I actually like it alot. I just thought the tube-rolling would have yielded better results.

 THANKS!_

 

The mythical tubes that sell for ridiculous prices are ego buys and could prove only marginally better than their cheaper cousins. Maybe the WOW factor is not worth spending the rent money on. If you roll until you get the right combination that sounds excellent, isn't that enough? Maybe you will never experience the WOW factor. What if you paid $150.00 for one of those mythical tubes and there was no WOW?

 I, too try to seek a reasonable price/quality point without chasing down the expensive tubes. I am comfortable with this and do not lust after the expensive stuff. 

 Valve swapping can become a disease; I have a tube tester, pin straightener, drawer full of 12AX7; 12AT7; EL34; 6N1P; 6922; PCC88; 5Y3 and 5U4 that will attest to that. At least the good NOS tubes are worth money. 

 I predict that someday our Russian and Chinese comrades will improve their vacuum tube industry and probe new highs in quality and value. This will probably coincide with the NOS American tubes further rising in value, which will lead the market to more affordable alternatives. That is why I suggested that if the Russian military tube you are considering is good, that you buy a fist full; if they are cheap now they are sleepers that will be worth money someday, at least the ones you don't use up.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm...I find the 6AS7 and 6080 sound pretty different. I prefer the 6AS7, but they do sound different to me. Did you listen to each for an extended period of time? Sometimes it takes a while to discern these things._

 

Granted, no I have only listened to the 6080 during one 4-5 hour session, so it may need some more burn in or I need to get used to it. I liked the 6AS7 and will go back to it if all else fails. Just looking for something 'better', if that even exists. Perhaps I should concentrate more on the front tube, as it is said by many to have the most affect on sound.

 I'm still wondering if the DAC is my weakest link. No sense, as I see it, to go nutz on an expensive DAC as that would only cause somethng else to be the weakest link and then I would have to upgrade that.

 In any case, I was probably expecting way too much out of this amp from the get-go. After all, its not much more than entry level. I do like it though and plan on keeping it.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just looking for something 'better', if that even exists. Perhaps I should concentrate more on the front tube, as it is said by many to have the most affect on sound._

 


 Something better:


 JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7
 Bendix 6080
 Tung-Sol 5998


 I actually had quite the opposite feeling when I swapped out my JAN-CRC for the 5998. I have never heard SUCH an improvement from a single tube. And I have used a few "good" front tubes as well.. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still wondering if the DAC is my weakest link. No sense, as I see it, to go nutz on an expensive DAC as that would only cause somethng else to be the weakest link and then I would have to upgrade that.

 In any case, I was probably expecting way too much out of this amp from the get-go. After all, its not much more than entry level. I do like it though and plan on keeping it._

 


 I don't think your DAC is the weakest link. It's probably better than the one in my CDP, but I am really enjoying my new CDP/SACD. 


 Maybe your music is your weakest link? I found out that it was in my case. Now, I won't touch any "newly remastered" music. I'm out for the original releases instead. They cost a little more, but are SO worth it. This has been the most significant upgrade in my system. 





 -Nick


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmmm...I find the 6AS7 and 6080 sound pretty different. I prefer the 6AS7, but they do sound different to me. Did you listen to each for an extended period of time? Sometimes it takes a while to discern these things._

 

6080 (ray-JAN-NOS-1hr-into)seems to have stronger bass. while 6AS7 (sylv-80hrs+-into) sounds a little sharper. I just put a TungSol 6SN7GTB in with the raytheon JAN 6080.. getting the buzz hammering. 



 Let's keep this thread on tube rolling. the pathetic or great future of tube can go somewhere else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as for UPS power supply etc. try searching "power-cord" or "power cord" you will see some interesting topics.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6080 (ray-JAN-NOS-1hr-into)seems to have stronger bass. while 6AS7 (sylv-80hrs+-into) sounds a little sharper. I just put a TungSol 6SN7GTB in with the raytheon JAN 6080.. getting the buzz hammering. 



 Let's keep this thread on tube rolling. the pathetic or great future of tube can go somewhere else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as for UPS power supply etc. try searching "power-cord" or "power cord" you will see some interesting topics._

 



 The buzzing generally goes away after 24 hours. Sometimes, and rarely does it take longer. For instance, my smoked glass 6SN7 took about 80 hours to releave a loud hum in the right channel. 


 Not sure what a "power-cord" has to do with UPS's...


----------



## Negatron

Tube rolling with the power out of the wall and what you hear............

 I know this needs it's own thread, but it relates to tube rolling the 336 and a separate thread will be on page 4 in 2 days. I have broached this subject before and gotten no interest. zero.

 I don't have a PHD in education so please excuse the feeble attempt at pointing a few in a direction where some of this makes sense. I was an Art Major for the simple reason that I was older than most students and that was the department where most of the females were. So I create better than I communicate.....

 Ultimately what we listen to is the power supplied by the power company. It is converted from alternating current which in the US is a swing 60 times a second from what passes for zero volts to 120 volts. That power is passed through a transformer and rectified or converted to direct current of what ever voltage is required for the electronics in use. At this point the direct current is not steady, it wavers up and down so it is fed into capacitors which serve as storage tanks to remove the 60 cycle fluctuation from the power. smaller capacitors are usually used along side to further smooth the voltage. (Those of you who understand stop laughing!)

 This process brings us the voltage that is moved up and down as a mirror to the music signal we feed into the amp. That is to say, this is the voltage we hear. OK, down the street up a pole is a big transformer that feeds many houses. Most of those have air conditioners or heat pumps running. Those electric motors are kicking noise back into the power line to all the other houses. BUT WAIT! There's More! Refrigerators are doing the same thing, And some inconsiderate idiot like me, might be running a welder, that really does neat things to the power. (and my neighbors TV)

 Now remember you are trying to decide what tube or amp sounds like what, and the power supply in your Amp, DAC, CD and so on is designed to filter out 60 cycle AC, not very broad spectrum noise and garbage. Also the power coming in to your house has a 'neutral,. the un-insulated silver line that runs in with your power wires. It is supposed to be zero volts. HAH! it ain't most of the time. It is usually grounded to a painted up, corroded or rusty connector that has not been tightened or cleaned in years. So that wire become an antenna for all sorts of radio frequency interference as well as 'singing ' it own tune and moving around in low current voltage that your amp is not in the least filtered against if it cost less than a grand or two.

 All of this is affecting what is amplified. Granted this is way to simplified,. but rest assured, surge protectors and home electronics depot super power protectors are making things worse by adding resistance and resonances to the signal feeding your power transformer. And your computer is really spewing out high frequency garbage into your power outlet. Not to mention those neat little switching supply 'wall warts' that have become so common. Like I mentioned in another post, at least get your computer plugged into an outlet on a separate circuit breaker from your audio gear. UPS's or battery backups are audio poison, as are surge protectors. And a $100 audio power center is no better. Sorry.

 This is a very complex subject and I have probably confused more than I have helped, but if one or two of you get a glimmer, keep searching the subject because it is as important as the tubes or opamps you are rolling. (I can't believe I said op-amp) (Whack!) I've included a few links that are worth your time and hopefully it can be explained better than I can put it. But I am serious in saying what you are listening to is an unbroken chain from the power company. It's just refined. But not near enough for serious audio.

 Links to Articles on conditioners:
eCoustics.com - Power Conditioner Articles

 Some conditioners:
Stereophile: Audio Power Industries Power Wedge Ultra 116 power conditioner
Stereophile: Audience Adept Response power conditioner
Musicdirect - SHUNYATA - HYDRA 8 POWER CONDITIONER
AUDIENCE ADEPT RESPONSE AR1P POWER CONDITIONER (BLACK) - elusivedisc

 Conditioners for the short of cash:
GS SOLA GENERAL SIGNAL POWER CONDITIONER CAT#25-00562 - (eBay item 280149207427 end time Dec-31-07 07:21:35 PST)
hospital grade line conditioner power voltage regulator - (eBay item 250195717219 end time Dec-16-07 19:54:21 PST)
T29659 Topaz 01706-01Q3 Line 1 Power Conditioner - (eBay item 330108542338 end time Jan-06-08 12:33:33 PST)
Single-Phase Power Line Conditioners 20 A 1000-lc - (eBay item 130163086592 end time Jan-10-08 21:44:47 PST)


 I do not specifically recommend or endorse any of these, just maintain that any will be an improvement over what comes out of the wall


----------



## Gollie

Thanks for that valuable info Negatron.

 I'll have to do some more research on this topic. I have been confused for some time now (still am) about noise and trashy electric signal coming from the power company.

 Does expensive wiring with outer shielding help this issue?


----------



## Jo6Pak

I am currently using a Monster HT-1000 Power Conditioner for all of my headphone-related gear. Dunno if those are worth anything, but I got a good deal on one, so I went for it...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Word to the wise on buying tubes: Don't "jump" at anything. I was looking at dark glass 6sn7gt's on ebay but didn't find anything really NOS. So, I reached out in another forum and one guy said that he had them for $55 a throw. Reluctantly, I slammed down the 55 clams and waited on my tube. When It came, I could clearly see the coloration over the emitters indicating that the tube was not NOS. Furthermore, the tube is microphonic as hell. Shame on me.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Word to the wise on buying tubes: Don't "jump" at anything. I was looking at dark glass 6sn7gt's on ebay but didn't find anything really NOS. So, I reached out in another forum and one guy said that he had them for $55 a throw. Reluctantly, I slammed down the 55 clams and waited on my tube. When It came, I could clearly see the coloration over the emitters indicating that the tube was not NOS. Furthermore, the tube is microphonic as hell. Shame on me._

 


 Chris, tube dampers will help, and are recommended. 


 I bought mine used and they are Herbies tube dampers. I paid $15 shipped for both the front and rear tubes. 






 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Thanks, Nick. I ordered a pair from Herbies, last Friday. Should be here soon.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Nick. I ordered a pair from Herbies, last Friday. Should be here soon._

 



 Cool. Post here if they help you. They have been doing well since I got them yesterday.


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The buzzing generally goes away after 24 hours. Sometimes, and rarely does it take longer. For instance, my smoked glass 6SN7 took about 80 hours to releave a loud hum in the right channel. 

 Not sure what a "power-cord" has to do with UPS's..._

 

do you just listen to the music with the buzz on? I just left the amp on with everything else off and headphone unplugged. I found it challenging to listen with the buzz (a loud one >< )

 well. that's why I said search. one or two of the topic that came out I read about talked about UPS. It was just a suggestion. of course.. I suppose one can simply do a search of UPS. *shrug*

 I was looking for power conditioner until I notice my cheap APC surge protector has EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 mHz) so... I kinda just settled with it... *I could hear my wireless home phone that is plugged to the wall directly w/o any surge protector sounding different when I turned my PC on which is in a totally different outlet the phone is plugged into* 


*Tube listenings* (For self and w/o might be internested)
 [size=xx-small]Disclaim: What I wrote are just my opinions. [/size]
*
 RCA 5692 red base (used) + Raytheon JAN 6080 (NOS 10hrs less) *
 => Strong Bass, mid~low range sound stands out more (compare to other tubes) but the sound is still very clean/detailed/crisp

*RCA 5692 red base (used) + Sylvania 6AS7G (used)*
 => light/normal/crisp bass, the mid~low range sound doesn't stand out like 6080's but rather light and crisp. and the mid~high range sounds got spiked up a lot more. (perhaps it's because the mid~low isn't as strong to cover up the high?) clean/detailed/crisp 

 *when I first listened to the Sylvania 6AS7G I like the overall tone, but I did feel the bass can be a little stronger.. the 6080 almost felt like a patch to the thought.*

*RCA 5692 red base (used) + Svetlana 6H13C (used) *
 [so I figured why not just try all the tubes I have again...]
 => >balanced, neutral<(by pataburd :] ) 
 nothing really stands out nor fall short on this tube. sounds warmer/smoother than the 6080 and Syl 6AS7G 
*
 RCA 5692 red base (Used) + RCA 6AS7G gray plate*
 smoothest tube I have/heard with very warm sound. Bass is a little stronger than the Sve 6H13C, the sound is balanced like 6H13C but a lot smoother/warmer compare to the 6H13C

*Sylvania 6NS7GTB (chrome top/black base) + Raytheon 6080 (NOS 10hr)*
 initial impress is how this sounds so similar to RCA 5692 + Sylvania but the bass/ mid~low is a little stronger/livelier (but not as strong as RCA 5692 + 6080)

*Sylvania 6NS7GTB (chrome top/black base) + Sylvania 6ASG (used) *
 the mid~low isn't really that lively/crisp compare having a 6080. everything else compared to a 6080 is very similar to the result of a RCA 5692's 

 ---------------------------------------
 During my listening of 6080 and sylvania 6AS7G I noticed mostly changed in the mid~low sound/tone/pitch, the high seems to maintain. Both tube sounds very clear and detailed.

 The main difference between RCA 5692 red base and Sylvania (to me) is how the mid~low sound and bass from RCA 5692 red base are improved, louder, more clear, liver, crisp, or standout than the Sylvania, but just as clear/detailed.
 ---------------------------------------

 I E-mailed a tube seller.. asking about Sylvania 6AS7G made in England tube and he told me it is a Russian made relabeled. How I am going to find a 2nd tube that will sound the same as the Sylvania 6AS7G. Because Sylvania 6AS7G doesn't seems to exist at places I looked.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Although I am pretty much settled in the sound of 6080 now.

 Sylvania 6AS7G and Svetlana 6H13C are somewhat similar in construction except the lower part inside the tube having some minor difference.... but much how different they sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyone know what other tubes are the same as Sylvania 6AS7G? here are some pictures.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When It came, I could clearly see the coloration over the emitters indicating that the tube was not NOS._

 

Can you describe this process in some detail so I can check my 'NOS' tubes?

 Such as, where are the emitters and what color should they be?

 Pics would be the best thing, if you have any.

 THANKS!


----------



## nick20

Joe, did you see my reply to you? Back a page...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, did you see my reply to you? Back a page..._

 

Just took a look, but didn't see anything about recognizing burned emitters?


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you describe this process in some detail so I can check my 'NOS' tubes?

 Such as, where are the emitters and what color should they be?

 Pics would be the best thing, if you have any.

 THANKS!_

 

First, a correction. I meant heaters, cathodes, or getters opposed to emitters (someone keep me honest on the parts... it's been a loooong time). Metallic splotches above the heater openings are signs that the tube is used. If you look down into the top of a tube, provided that there is no flashing (silver or "chrome dome"), a new tube will present with clear glass over the metal rods that point upward. If there are grey circles or splotches, it's used.

 I'll try to get some photos posted this evening.

 Chris


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just took a look, but didn't see anything about recognizing burned emitters?_

 



 Joe, take a look here..


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dar...ml#post3503269


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, a correction. I meant heaters, cathodes, or getters opposed to emitters (someone keep me honest on the parts... it's been a loooong time). Metallic splotches above the heater openings are signs that the tube is used. If you look down into the top of a tube, provided that there is no flashing (silver or "chrome dome"), a new tube will present with clear glass over the metal rods that point upward. If there are grey circles or splotches, it's used.

 I'll try to get some photos posted this evening.

 Chris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 I had some photos, but I must have deleted them. I no longer own the tubes in the picture either.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, take a look here..


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dar...ml#post3503269_

 

nick-

 I must have missed that response when it was posted. Thanks for all the good advice.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nick-

 I must have missed that response when it was posted. Thanks for all the good advice._

 


 Your welcome. If you, or any one has any questions, let me know. I'll do my best.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you just listen to the music with the buzz on? I just left the amp on with everything else off and headphone unplugged. I found it challenging to listen with the buzz (a loud one >< )

 well. that's why I said search. one or two of the topic that came out I read about talked about UPS. It was just a suggestion. of course.. I suppose one can simply do a search of UPS. *shrug*

 I was looking for power conditioner until I notice my cheap APC surge protector has EMI/RFI Noise rejection (100 kHz to 10 mHz) so... I kinda just settled with it... *I could hear my wireless home phone that is plugged to the wall directly w/o any surge protector sounding different when I turned my PC on which is in a totally different outlet the phone is plugged into*_

 



 I just turn on my CDP, and run pink-noise/white-noise at below normal listening levels. Then when I leave, I turn off the amp, and as soon as I come home, I turn it back on.

 I also don't use good tubes, I use the stock tubes. I also bought an extra set of "junk" used tubes to use for burn-in purposes as well. 



 The buzz/humm I had, was unbearable. I couldn't listen to any music. So I either changed tubes and listened to music, or let the buzz/humm tube burn-in. All the cables I have are triple shielded, and block out roughly 98% of rfi/emi noises. I have no problems with cell-phones, or the house phone, or even the radio. 







 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

Just noticed something:

 I was looking at an ebay auction for a pair of 'grey glass' 6SN7s and noticed that ALL of the glass is grey. On the one I have only the lower 2/3 to 3/4 or so is grey and the upper portion is clear. What do I have? I was told it was a 'grey glass'.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just noticed something:

 I was looking at an ebay auction for a pair of 'grey glass' 6SN7s and noticed that ALL of the glass is grey. On the one I have only the lower 2/3 to 3/4 or so is grey and the upper portion is clear. What do I have? I was told it was a 'grey glass'._

 



 Can you post a picture of yours? It may be that the coating is wearing off? The only 3/4 tubes I know that are colored are the Ken-Rad VT231 black-glass.


----------



## Jo6Pak

sorry, no camera = no pic. Will try to find an image online of something similar...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry, no camera = no pic. Will try to find an image online of something similar..._

 


 This is normal..

RCA 6SN7GT SMOKE GLASS 6SN7 MATCHED PAIR, NOS TUBE - (eBay item 320195331231 end time Dec-16-07 17:30:56 PST)


 I've seen a few smoked glass tubes like "rubbed out" where the smoke glass is coming off and is becoming clear.. or something like that..


----------



## Jo6Pak

Thanks nick. I'll have a closer look when I get home from work, but as I recall, the smoked part on mine is only on the bottom half or more. I just started burning it in this morning before work as when I first installed it there was some hum in the right channel. Was planning to continue the process until the hum ended, but if I find out this tube is used, I probably won't even bother...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks nick. I'll have a closer look when I get home from work, but as I recall, the smoked part on mine is only on the bottom half or more. I just started burning it in this morning before work as when I first installed it there was some hum in the right channel. Was planning to continue the process until the hum ended, but if I find out this tube is used, I probably won't even bother..._

 


 Why? Used tubes sound just as good.. 

 It sounds like you don't even have a smoked glass tube.. ALL of the glass should be gray (or 100% full coverage). I've seen one where the "smoke" was rubbing off around the base, as the user likely kept grabbing the glass, instead of the base. But other than that, I have no idea what you have. 


 Is it a GT,GTA, or GTB?


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? Used tubes sound just as good.. 
 Is it a GT,GTA, or GTB?_

 

Only because if it used, that may be why it is humming, NOT because it is new and needs breaking in. I will check the exact part number when I get home and report back here. 

 It was one of the first tubes I purchased and don't really remember the details. It was actually a _replacement_ tube for one I bought off ebay that the seller said he was unable to locate. He offered my money back or 'this' tube. He said it was even better than the tube I had originally bid on and called it dark glass, grey glass, or something. I don't remember exactly. I never questioned it until now...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only because if it used, that may be why it is humming, NOT because it is new and needs breaking in. I will check the exact part number when I get home and report back here._

 


 Ususally NOS tubes or tubes that haven't been used in a long time have the hum. At least in my findings...


----------



## rivieraranch

The first tube I bought for my Darkvoice 336i, a metal base JAN Sylvania 6080arrived in the mail this afternoon. Embalzoned with a 1965 date code it looks new. On testing, it tests new, nearly burying the needle on emissions test, 4500/4600 (min. 3400) transconductance, strong life, no other problems. 

 I am running this tube in the 'voice right now. There is no hum or no problems of any kind. And it sounds a h - e double hockey sticks of a lot better than the Chinese 6N5PJ did. Something rattled inside that one when I lightly shook it. 

 I am listening to a CD that I like, "Nat King Cole Sings, George Shearing Plays" (1961). Cole's baritone is smooth as a 25 year-old single malt scotch, the Shearing Quintet sounds punchy. This tube puts out a solid bass. 

 I am looking forward to putting a better tube in front.


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just turn on my CDP, and run pink-noise/white-noise at below normal listening levels. Then when I leave, I turn off the amp, and as soon as I come home, I turn it back on.

 I also don't use good tubes, *I use the stock tubes*. I also bought an extra set of "junk" used tubes to use for burn-in purposes as well. _

 

Brilliant! but now you mentioned junk tube.... where do we buy junk tubes.... *panic*

 to Jo6Pak
 most of the used tube are just as good.. on top of that.. you can simply send them back for a refund if they have hum/buzz or doesn't sound good to your ear, don't have to deal with the "it's a NOS tube..so you gonna have to wait and see" 

 I am loving the used tubes I have.


----------



## Jo6Pak

furia-

 I've had tubes that hummed before and it usually dissipated pretty quickly. Much sooner than some the of the wait-time nick has experienced. Mostly I'm curious now as to what exatcly this tube is and why only half (bottom half) is smoked/tinted/grey.

 nick-

 as far as the smoke wearing off, wouldn't that be on the _inside_ of the tube? I always assumed so, anyway. Maybe it 'burns' off over time? Dunno, still very curious about this tube...


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_furia-

 I've had tubes that hummed before and it usually dissipated pretty quickly. Much sooner than some the of the wait-time nick has experienced. Mostly I'm curious now as to what exatcly this tube is and why only half (bottom half) is smoked/tinted/grey.

 nick-

 as far as the smoke wearing off, wouldn't that be on the inside of the tube? I always assumed so, anyway. Maybe it 'burns' off over time? Dunno, still very curious about this tube..._

 

I, too, thought that the "smoke" was on the inside, to do something with the sound. Are people smoking the outside of clear glass RCA's and trying to pass them off as smoked glass?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Brilliant! but now you mentioned junk tube.... where do we buy junk tubes.... *panic*

 to Jo6Pak
 most of the used tube are just as good.. on top of that.. you can simply send them back for a refund if they have hum/buzz or doesn't sound good to your ear, don't have to deal with the "it's a NOS tube..so you gonna have to wait and see" 

 I am loving the used tubes I have._

 


 I don't pay no more than a dollar or two for the "junk" tubes. I don't care the brand, or anything. The cheaper the better, as I will/am using it strickly for burn-in. Either burn-in headphones, cables, etc. etc. these ultra cheap tubes work wonders.. 

 eBay has a ton of them, as do a few people around here.. Also, buying those large eBay lots with "lots of unknown" stuff is a cheap way to go as well. 

 I really don't care if they are NOS, used, cracked base, or anything. As long as it works, I don't care, as the only sound being played is pink and white noise...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nick-

 as far as the smoke wearing off, wouldn't that be on the inside of the tube? I always assumed so, anyway. Maybe it 'burns' off over time? Dunno, still very curious about this tube..._

 


 I don't know honestly, as I sold off all my smoked tubes and bought this very rare guy.. I THINK it might be a Candian made GE.







 The ONLY way to know is to scratch the tube itself, unless someone knows for sure. I thought maybe it would be the outside, as it would be easier to produce than "smoking" the inside, which I would think would take longer to get off the production line.. but I may be wrong.. 






 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are people smoking the outside of clear glass RCA's and trying to pass them off as smoked glass?_

 


 I highly doubt this... as I've never seen any sort of knock off's. The smoked glass RCA's are either 6SN7GT or 6SN7 VT-231. I've had both, and preferred the GT version, which are also just as rare as the VT-231 version.


----------



## Jo6Pak

ok, nick-

 I looked the tube over really good thid time and its definitely an RCA 6SN7GT. I was wrong, however, about the 'smoke'. It goes from the top edges of the crown DOWN to about 1/2 inch aboove the base. But it STILL does not resemble any of the grey glass tubes I've seen on ebay and elsewhere. The very top of the glass is clear. The only 'discoloration I can see on the top (inside) is a small smear of what looks like 'white-out'. But even that is not around/near the 'poles' or whatever they are called coming up thru the top plate. Still mystified. Anyway, I've resumed the burn-in to try and rid it of the hum. I wanna find out what this puppy can do...


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know honestly, as I sold off all my smoked tubes and bought this very rare guy.. I THINK it might be a Candian made GE.








 The ONLY way to know is to scratch the tube itself, unless someone knows for sure. I thought maybe it would be the outside, as it would be easier to produce than "smoking" the inside, which I would think would take longer to get off the production line.. but I may be wrong.. 


 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The 'smoke' is in the glass, 'blowing smoke' to make $ is becoming more common. Sometime plate structure and mica or lack of, are ways to know what a tube is. No further comment from me on that subject.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Sounds "like" it has some sort of RF shielding. That gray stuff, "the smoke" which I think is lead, is put on the glass for shielding.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, nick-

 I looked the tube over really good thid time and its definitely an RCA 6SN7GT. I was wrong, however, about the 'smoke'. It goes from the top edges of the crown DOWN to about 1/2 inch aboove the base. But it STILL does not resemble any of the grey glass tubes I've seen on ebay and elsewhere._


----------



## SoFlaChris

My 336i in the "Man Cave" (a corner in my bedroom).

 Chris


----------



## Jo6Pak

I just purchased a CBS/Hytron 6SN7GT (NOS) off evilbay for $40 plus shipping. In TubeSeller's 6SN7 Ratings, they describe it as 'the best of the non-military tubes'. If I don't hear even the _slightest_ audible difference with it, I'm done with tube rolling...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Before you throw in the towel, can I ask how long you're allowing yourself to listen to each combination? Are you using the same reference, etc.?

_It can be tedious, _but don't let tuberolling spoil your listening time. Regardless of what anybody says about one tube or another, find a combination that works for you and call it a day.

 Hang in there.

 Chris

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased a CBS/Hytron 6SN7GT (NOS) off evilbay for $40 plus shipping. In TubeSeller's 6SN7 Ratings, they describe it as 'the best of the non-military tubes'. If I don't hear even the slightest audible difference with it, I'm done with tube rolling..._


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It can be tedious, but don't let tuberolling spoil your listening time. Regardless of what anybody says about one tube or another, find a combination that works for you and call it a day.

 Hang in there.

 Chris_

 

I'm going to try it with all of my rear tubes (Raytheon 6080, some other 6080, GE, I think it is, the RCA 6AS7 and the Svetlana I still have not yet received). If its going to make any difference, I hope it is with one of those because I'm not in the mood to shop for more rear tubes. I know $40 isn't a lot to spend based on what I've read here, but its more than I wanted to spend. 

 I generally listen to every combo during listening sessions lasting from 3-6 hours, over a period of 2-3 or more consecutive days. I try to burn in all tubes for at least a few hours with pink/white noise before listening. Should I be doing more? 

 Once again, I must say that although I am not _unhappy_ with any of the combos I've tried, I can't say that I am thrilled either. By that, I mean I really don't hear much, if any difference between them...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Sounds like you're spending some good time with them, and there isn't much else that, IMO, feel that you need to do. Again, people (myself included) will give you all kinds of advice, but in the end it's your ears. I think that the 6AS7 and the Svetlana would work well with your preamp (front) tubes. Again, opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one. Not to be patronizing, but you'll eventually find good sound in the 336i.

 Take it slow and enjoy the ride.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased a CBS/Hytron 6SN7GT (NOS) off evilbay for $40 plus shipping. In TubeSeller's 6SN7 Ratings, they describe it as 'the best of the non-military tubes'. If I don't hear even the slightest audible difference with it, I'm done with tube rolling..._

 



 Joe, I hope you got a brown base... especially for that price.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to try it with all of my rear tubes (Raytheon 6080, some other 6080, GE, I think it is, the RCA 6AS7 and the Svetlana I still have not yet received). If its going to make any difference, I hope it is with one of those because I'm not in the mood to shop for more rear tubes. I know $40 isn't a lot to spend based on what I've read here, but its more than I wanted to spend. 

 I generally listen to every combo during listening sessions lasting from 3-6 hours, over a period of 2-3 or more consecutive days. I try to burn in all tubes for at least a few hours with pink/white noise before listening. Should I be doing more? 

 Once again, I must say that although I am not unhappy with any of the combos I've tried, I can't say that I am thrilled either. By that, I mean I really don't hear much, if any difference between them..._

 



 Joe, it sounds like you need to do a little more research on tubes before dropping that kind of money. But that's JMO. 

 The most expensive tube I ever bought was the 5998 for $25. Which I stole at this price. The second most expensive tube I ever bought was $15. And that was the red base GE I posted back in the last page. I couldn't even tell you how many "ear-gasms" I've had since purchasing this amp. 

 I paid $6 for a VT-231 smoked glass RCA... if you look, and are patient, good things will come. 

 Here, have a look...

2 Vintage GE RCA 6SN7 Vacuum Tubes Ham Radio - (eBay item 220165714154 end time Nov-04-07 18:08:34 PST)



 EDIT: can you post a picture of the tube you won?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased a CBS/Hytron 6SN7GT (NOS) off evilbay for $40 plus shipping. In TubeSeller's 6SN7 Ratings, they describe it as 'the best of the non-military tubes'. If I don't hear even the slightest audible difference with it, I'm done with tube rolling..._

 


 Here's a quite auction.. not that it matters now, as you already paid for the item..


Two 6SN7 GT CBS Hytron Black Plate Tubes LQQK! - (eBay item 160189930532 end time Dec-18-07 17:32:22 PST)


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, I hope you got a brown base... especially for that price._

 

Dunno, it didn't say and I didn't know to ask. I did look at a couple other sources and $40 seemed to be about the going rate. The seller said he would ship today via Priority mail, so figured I'd give it a try...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a quite auction.. not that it matters now, as you already paid for the item..


Two 6SN7 GT CBS Hytron Black Plate Tubes LQQK! - (eBay item 160189930532 end time Dec-18-07 17:32:22 PST)_

 

Nope, this one:






 And it appears to have a black base, whatever that means...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dunno, it didn't say and I didn't know to ask. I did look at a couple other sources and $40 seemed to be about the going rate. The seller said he would ship today via Priority mail, so figured I'd give it a try..._

 

For $10 more you could have had a much better tube. 

 A CBS/Hytron brown-base 5692 is regarded as one of the best tubes made..



 I'm sure you could have done a lot better on the CBS/Hytron.. but if you can't wait, I guess that's the price you pay sometimes... Very rarely should BIN be used for tubes unless you are scoring it at an incredible price.


 For instance, there was a RCA red-base 5692 NOS, in original box for $60. It was gone before I could get to my PayPal page. Where-as this tube normally sells for $100+ a tube.

 Buying 6SN7 tubes can/and will be at some point, overwhelming. Just sit back, relax, and read, read read.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The most expensive tube I ever bought was the 5998 for $25. Which I stole at this price. The second most expensive tube I ever bought was $15. And that was the red base GE I posted back in the last page. I couldn't even tell you how many "ear-gasms" I've had since purchasing this amp. 

 I paid $6 for a VT-231 smoked glass RCA... if you look, and are patient, good things will come._

 

Here's my deal: I don't particularly trust evilbay sellers these days. For that reason, I try to stick to those tubes described as NOS and hope they are knowledgeable enuff to know if it is and/or aren't lying. I also don't do auctions. I always sort by BIN and hope I find something to my liking. Perhaps my timing is off in that regard. Again, I really LIKE my amp. At most I'm just a bit disappointed in the results of my tube rolling. I, for whatever reason, thought there would be night and day differences. Unfortunately, I have not experienced anything lie that - YET...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Buying 6SN7 tubes can/and will be at some point, overwhelming._

 

Believe me, I'm already there...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my deal: I don't particularly trust evilbay sellers these days. For that reason, I try to stick to those tubes described as NOS and hope they are knowledgeable enuff to know if it is and/or aren't lying. I also don't do auctions. I always sort by BIN and hope I find something to my liking. Perhaps my timing is off in that regard. Again, I really LIKE my amp. At most I'm just a bit disappointed in the results of my tube rolling. I, for whatever reason, thought there would be night and day differences. Unfortunately, I have not experienced anything lie that - YET..._

 



 Well, then you will pay the premium prices, for a non-premium tube. That is your decision, not mine. I wouldn't pay no more than $10 for that tube..


 And you have to look beyond just "tubeseller.com" for information. There are various posts all over the web about almost ANY tube you want. It just takes time and patience. Like some, who don't have the "time", rely soley on what one person says. 

 In the end, I look here and elsewhere for suggestions, but I refuse to purchase a tube unless I know it is a solid sounding tube. Just because one person says it is good, you have to understand its in *their* system, with *their *music, and to *their* ears. You might not have the same system, music or hearing that others do, or simply like a different sounding tube. You have to find whats right for you.. starting with the cheaper tubes is a good start. 

 Furthermore, you _MUST_ take every comment/suggestion with a grain of salt.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Well nick, I suppose this hobby is much like everything else I do: I buy something and if I don't like it, I try something else. Then I either store, sell or give away the stuff that didn't appeal to me. I am not a patient man, nor do I have anyone (wife) hounding me NOT to, so I just do things like that.

 Thanks for your advice though, it is always welcome...


----------



## Skylab

I actually got one of those *exact* CBS Hytron 6SN7GT tall-bottle clear-top black-plate tubes today, and have been listening to it all day - VERY nice tube. On the warm side, but still plenty of detail. It's a very nice tube - a definite cut above your run of the mill 6SN7. I think you'll be happy with it, Jo.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well nick, I suppose this hobby is much like everything else I do: I buy something and if I don't like it, I try something else. Then I either store, sell or give away the stuff that didn't appeal to me. I am not a patient man, nor do I have anyone (wife) hounding me NOT to, so I just do things like that.

 Thanks for your advice though, it is always welcome..._

 


 That's fine. When you're in the mood to get some good used tubes, contact me. I usually have quite a few for sale.


 Even though I'm 20, and I make a decent living, I do not like throwing my money away, and I'm always a thrifty kind of guy. I work hard for my money, as do you, and I thought maybe offering this kind of help would benefit you. 

 One can also made a very educated purchase by researching the extact tube online and come to a general consensus about how the tube sounds and responds to different genres of music. 


 I don't think it's fair to "exit the game" of tube rolling if this tube isn't a night/day different. For $40 from a auction, you can generally get a much better tube for the same money, but of course, you have to wait until the auction ends. 



 If you want a night/day difference, take that $40 and get a 5998. If you can't hear a night/day difference from this tube, then its not the amp or tubes fault.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually got one of those *exact* CBS Hytron 6SN7GT tall-bottle clear-top black-plate tubes today, and have been listening to it all day - VERY nice tube. On the warm side, but still plenty of detail. It's a very nice tube - a definite cut above your run of the mill 6SN7. I think you'll be happy with it, Jo._

 

Now THAT is some encouraging news!


----------



## Skylab

Using it in my Singlepower Extreme with 5998 output tubes. Very quiet, made no noise at all. Highly enjoyable sound. As long as yours is in good shape, you should be pleased. Not promising night/day, but it's a very nice tube nonetheless.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even though I'm 20, and I make a decent living, I do not like throwing my money away, and I'm always a thrifty kind of guy. I work hard for my money, as do you, and I thought maybe offering this kind of help would benefit you. 

 If you want a night/day difference, take that $40 and get a 5998._

 

nick-

 I _do_ value your opinion an appreciate the input. Its just that I'm much older and have very little patience. I also ride a Harley and every time I get on it could be my last. Ya know, the whole 'Live To Ride - Ride To Live' thing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will keep the 5998 in mind for the rear slot. Thanks...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nick-

 I do value your opinion an appreciate the input. Its just that I'm much older and have very little patience. I also ride a Harley and every time I get on it could be my last. Ya know, the whole 'Live To Ride - Ride To Live' thing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will keep the 5998 in mind for the rear slot. Thanks..._

 


 I would advise you to pick that up as your next tube. Like I said, if you cannot hear a night/day difference its not your amp or the tube.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I also ride a Harley_

 

A little of topic: Joe... Do you wear earplugs when you ride? Also, do you listen to your amp as soon as you come in from a ride if you don't wear plugs?

 Reason why I'm saying this is because I ride a VERY LOUD, stroked, rigid bobber. Before I started wearing plugs and listened after a ride, everything sounded like crap for the first few hours. Now that I wear plugs, life is much better in the music department.

 Not trying to sound like an authority, just sharing my observations.

 Sorry for the OT post... Back to the 336 and tube rolling.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A little of topic: Joe... Do you wear earplugs when you ride? Also, do you listen to your amp as soon as you come in from a ride if you don't wear plugs?
 Sorry for the OT post._

 

No and no. Also, not off topic, so far. 

 I ride an '06 FXDBI with V&H Big Shots Staggered and they are loud and you're right. That combined with the wind noise ruins your hearing for awhile afterwards. Especially in the right ear (where the pipes are)...

_Now_ we're off topic.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No and no. Also, not off topic, so far. 

 I ride an '06 FXDBI with V&H Big Shots Staggered and they are loud and you're right. That combined with the wind noise ruins your hearing for awhile afterwards. Especially in the right ear (where the pipes are)...

Now we're off topic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No ! It's not off topic. Harley V-twins make music, which is just as sweet as a VT-231 in an 336i.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Question for anyone in the know - nick20, skylab?

 I have been researching the 5998 and what I'm seeing is that it is a direct replacement for the 421A, not the 6AS7/6080. Is there any concern with using this tube in the DV336i output position?

 THANKS!


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question for anyone in the know - nick20, skylab?

 I have been researching the 5998 and what I'm seeing is that it is a direct replacement for the 421A, not the 6AS7/6080. Is there any concern with using this tube in the DV336i output position?

 THANKS!_

 

This link may help with some general info. The 5998 will sub just fine. 
Inverted Triodes - The 6AS7/6080 Family
 You may find the sound to be a bit 'analytical' for your tastes, more so than the 6080.

 But with all the available sound signatures available with the 6SN7 you may find a good match.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Neg-

 Thanks for the info. Not too worried about the SQ as I've tried a few other tube combos already with limited results. One more disappointment in that arena wouldn't be a surprise. What concerns me most is will it HARM anything with prolonged use in the DV336i, just in case I DO like it?


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Neg-

 Thanks for the info. Not too worried about the SQ as I've tried a few other tube combos already with limited results. One more disappointment in that arena wouldn't be a surprise. What concerns me most is will it HARM anything with prolonged use in the DV336i, just in case I DO like it?_

 

It absolutely will not harm anything and in some amps it is a great sounding tube. My comments about it being analytical relate to MY preference in the 336i, where I don't care for the 6080 either, but I have used that same tube in other amps where it shines. You may well like it with some of the smoother and warmer front end tubes. YMMV. Also just an FYI, but sometimes an 40+ year old NOS tube takes longer to break in than a newer one.

 Even though auditory memory is short lived, becoming familier with one particular sound signature in an amplifier makes it easier and quicker to identify the qualities a tube is bringing (or not) to an amp. Make sure you have a baseline to fall back on when auditioning tubes. loose that, and it is a 'crap shoot'.

 Jesus, you should be my age and have 'Senior moments' where you can't remember what the heck the tube was you liked so much 3 days ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: Joe, you seem to be having trouble picking out differences in tubes, which bring me to a possible conclusion that something in your system may be adding coloration that swamps the changes. PM me an address and I'll send you a set of interconnects to see if you can tell the difference. If nothing else it will 'rule out' one possibility.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jesus, you should be my age and have 'Senior moments' where you can't remember what the heck the tube was you liked so much 3 days ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Hey Bro', I have my 'senior moments' as well. I can remember, vividly, partying my ass off in Spain 25 years ago, but if someone where I work asks me about something we did a week ago, I'm like What are you talking about?

 Also, good point about the 'base reference'. So far, mine is the RCA 6AS7G and Sylvania 6SN7/whatever (chrome dome). If all else fails, I will go back to that.

 Thanks for your input. Based on yours and others (nick20), I think I should go for a 5998. I found one NOS for $45. The seller (not ebay) says those tubes were ALL manufactured by Tung-Sol/Chatham. Can anyone confirm that?


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Bro', I have my 'senior moments' as well. I can remember, vividly, partying my ass off in Spain 25 years ago, but if someone where I work asks me about something we did a week ago, I'm like What are you talking about?

 Also, good point about the 'base reference'. So far, mine is the RCA 6AS7G and Sylvania 6SN7/whatever (chrome dome). If all else fails, I will go back to that.

 Thanks for your input. Based on yours and others (nick20), I think I should go for a 5998. I found one NOS for $45. The seller (not ebay) says those tubes were ALL manufactured by Tung-Sol/Chatham. Can anyone confirm that?_

 

.
 Same point of reference I use. seems to be the best with the widest range of sources. Like a real good shotgun.

 I've heard the same thing about tung Sol/Chatham being the sole manufacturer but never have seen any hard data, all anecdotal.

 edit: BTW, in the past I have seen NOS 5998's going for $25-30 +ship


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.
 Same point of reference I use. seems to be the best with the widest range of sources. Like a real good shotgun.

 I've heard the same thing about tung Sol/Chatham being the sole manufacturer but never have seen any hard data, all anecdotal.

 edit: BTW, in the past I have seen NOS 5998's going for $25-30 +ship_

 



 Mike, I found a little more info on these. I THINK Western Electric was the sole manufacturer as they produced the 421A, and then is it possible Tung-Sol/Chatham came into the scene with the 5998? Or do I have it flip-flopped?

_"421A=5998 and has slightly higher amplification factor than 6AS7G)
 (5998 Tungsol is the next best to the Western Electric 421A"_

 And now-a-days the 5998 easily sells for $40 a tube. You'd be lucky like me, to score one for $25, but they pop up from time to time.


----------



## Skylab

The Western Electric 421a is a rebranded Tung-Sol 5998. Tung-Sol was the maker.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Western Electric 421a is a rebranded Tung-Sol 5998. Tung-Sol was the maker._

 


 Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure...


----------



## Skylab

My pleasure. I found this out just a little while ago while doing some digging, and it's important to know, because the 421a sells for more than the 5998 usually, and all you are paying for is the branding, which is silly.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My pleasure. I found this out just a little while ago while doing some digging, and it's important to know, because the 421a sells for more than the 5998 usually, and all you are paying for is the branding, which is silly._

 


 May I ask where exactly you "dig" for some of your tube information? I use google extensively..



 EDIT: Or what I should be asking is, is there a solid place for learning about tubes, tube origination, purpose, etc. or is the best way "google'ing" it?




 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Mostly from the "Tubes" asylum on audioasylum.com


----------



## SoFlaChris

I can't find 5998's anywhere except for new Tung Sols. How do they stack-up to NOS soundwise?



 EDIT: I'm a dork. They weren't new 5998's, They were 6SN7.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mostly from the "Tubes" asylum on audioasylum.com_

 


 I research a lot there as well.. or have been recently. My quest to become a "tube geek" is slowly coming along.. 




 Thanks,



 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find 5998's anywhere except for new Tung Sols. How do they stack-up to NOS soundwise?_

 


 I found some 421a's, but like Rob said, they are much more expensive. 


 I don't understand your second question.. Are you asking how a used 5998 stack's up against NOS 5998, SQ wise?






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find 5998's anywhere except for new Tung Sols. How do they stack-up to NOS soundwise?_

 

There are no new-production 5998's. So you either get NOS or used...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I research a lot there as well.. or have been recently. My quest to become a "tube geek" is slowly coming along.. 




 Thanks,



 -Nick_

 

I'd say you are doing a VERY good job! And it's an admirable goal. But to truly become a tube-geek, you have to have a tube-tester


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are no new-production 5998's. So you either get NOS or used...



 I'd say you are doing a VERY good job! And it's an admirable goal. But to truly become a tube-geek, you have to have a tube-tester 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 ...and that was my very next question for you.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 But since I don't have the funds yet, as I have other priorities right now, and in the upcoming months, I was going to get informed about them when I do have the funds. And ask for your advice on buying them used on eBay.







 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Thanks fellas... I wasn't sure how to word that. Sorry, long day.


 EDIT: I'm a dork. They weren't new 5998's, They were 6SN7.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I, too, thought that the "smoke" was on the inside, to do something with the sound. Are people smoking the outside of clear glass RCA's and trying to pass them off as smoked glass?_

 



 I found a few more answers regarding the "smoked glass" 6SN7's...




_"It is common for the coating to flake off. The coating was applied to the glass before the internal elements (anode plates, heaters, etc.) were inserted. Upon insertion, some parts (most notably the micas) may come in contact with the the coating, causing it to scrape off."_

_Originally smoked on the inner surface, I believe to absorb stay electrons._

_The glass is coated on the inside with carbon/graphite. The reported purpose is for RF/EMI shielding._

_The tube will have lower distortion._



 Maybe this will help some people awaiting the answer... 





 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and that was my very next question for you.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 But since I don't have the funds yet, as I have other priorities right now, and in the upcoming months, I was going to get informed about them when I do have the funds. And ask for your advice on buying them used on eBay.







 -Nick_

 

It will be my pleasure to assist...I already did a LOT of research on this as well...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will be my pleasure to assist...I already did a LOT of research on this as well..._

 


 We will be in contact...


----------



## nick20

.


----------



## rivieraranch

My Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top arrived. It had a 1953 date code and looked like it had never been used. Unfortunately on testing, it appeared to have some cathode leakage. I posted over on the antique radio site where they really know testers and was told that it would probably work, that the light on my tester that would not light did not indicate a short. I rattled the tube and heard a little something loose in there. I am not going to use this tube.

 Today I received 2 RCA 6AS7 coke bottle tubes, and 8 various 6SN7 tubes. One of these turned out to be an RCA JAN CRC smoked glass 6SN7 VT-231. This one is in the amp right now, along with one of the coke bottle 6AS7's. The smoked glass tube tested very strong, and the 6AS7 coke bottles tested insanely strong.

 The other 6SN7's are a Tung Sol, 6SN7GT; Sylvania 6SN7GTB with chrome top marked DJ on the base; an RCA clear glass 6SN7GT; Sylvania branded PHILCO 6SN7GT medium bottle with 1950 date code; GE 6SN7. I don't know if I am going to try all of these.

 I am listening to Sam Cooke right now, "Night Beat" (1963); how fitting, hearing an RCA "Living Stereo" recording through RCA tubes. There is quite a difference between the Chinese 6SN7 and the old RCA. There is a lot better tone and no grain in the vocals.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Sylvania 6SN7GT chrome top arrived. It had a 1953 date code and looked like it had never been used. Unfortunately on testing, it appeared to have some cathode leakage. I posted over on the antique radio site where they really know testers and was told that it would probably work, that the light on my tester that would not light did not indicate a short. I rattled the tube and heard a little something loose in there. I am not going to use this tube.

 Today I received 2 RCA 6AS7 coke bottle tubes, and 8 various 6SN7 tubes. One of these turned out to be an RCA JAN CRC smoked glass 6SN7 VT-231. This one is in the amp right now, along with one of the coke bottle 6AS7's. The smoked glass tube tested very strong, and the 6AS7 coke bottles tested insanely strong.

 The other 6SN7's are a Tung Sol, 6SN7GT; Sylvania 6SN7GTB with chrome top marked DJ on the base; an RCA clear glass 6SN7GT; Sylvania branded PHILCO 6SN7GT medium bottle with 1950 date code; GE 6SN7. I don't know if I am going to try all of these.

 I am listening to Sam Cooke right now, "Night Beat" (1963); how fitting, hearing an RCA "Living Stereo" recording through RCA tubes. There is quite a difference between the Chinese 6SN7 and the old RCA. There is a lot better tone and no grain in the vocals._

 



 Sorry to hear about your single lose, but even bigger gain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I actually believe that the most difference in sound is in the rear tube. Contrary to what many think, and read, I've never gotten bigger results than swapping out the rear tube to a TS-5998. I've had my run of decent quality tubes, but nothing really, is on the same level as the performance gained from a 5998. I would advise you to try and get a JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7. These tubes are noticeably better than the RCA's your currently using in the rear. 





 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

nick-

 You just about have me talked into getting a 5998. Its difficult to ignore all the praise you have for it. Before I do so, I'm just waiting for the CBS/Hytron I ordered for the front slot. After that, I think the 5998 will follow...


----------



## Skylab

They key is trying to actually GET 5998's without spending an arm and a leg...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They key is trying to actually GET 5998's without spending an arm and a leg..._

 


 x2


 ...but it's not going to be easy... a little luck, and some patience are key.


----------



## rivieraranch

Has anybody used a 6SL7 in the Darkvoice?

 I acquired 7 6SL7's along with the 6SN7's from a lot. These are all used tubes, but the nicest 6SL7 is probably the KEN-RAD JAN CKR 6SL7GT VT-229. 
 A 6SL7 tube should test at 1000 Micromhos (what did you call me?) and this one was 1300/1250. 

 What equipment uses the 6SL7?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody used a 6SL7 in the Darkvoice?

 I acquired 7 6SL7's along with the 6SN7's from a lot. These are all used tubes, but the nicest 6SL7 is probably the KEN-RAD JAN CKR 6SL7GT VT-229. 
 A 6SL7 tube should test at 1000 Micromhos (what did you call me?) and this one was 1300/1250. 

 What equipment uses the 6SL7?_

 


 Darkvoice 337 uses the 6SL7.



 Also..

_"As for the 6SL7 don't go there, it will bias the 6AS7 too hot for the DV power supply. The 6SN7 and the 6AS7 are direct coupled, so the front end sets bias for the output. There is a 20 watt power supply resistor in there you are *liable* to cook."_


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...but it's not going to be easy... a little luck, and some patience are key._

 

Unfortunately, I have very little of either. I know where I can get one for $45. Will probably just do that. I hate shopping. My main concern was/is whether or not it could cause damage to the amp, since it is not a 6AS7 direct replacement.


----------



## SoFlaChris

I've done lots of looking, and in some cases, ebay is not the way to go. I've seen 5998's and 5692's cheaper in a retail facility than on the 'bay. I've been watching red base 5692's, as I'd like to hear one. As soon as they hit the auction block, some people start hitting 5 & 7 day auctions hard with high bids on the first day. Makes it tough.

 Earlier in my career as a radio technician, I remember being able to go downtown to what was called "Radio Row" in NYC. It was a city block of radio surplus shops with bins and bins of tubes to test and buy for a song. From tiny micro-sized tubes all the way to klystrons, it was all there. Now there is ebay and a vast majority of thieves, peppered with some decent fellas along the way.

 (end off-topic reminiscing/rant)


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've done lots of looking, and in some cases, ebay is not the way to go. I've seen 5998's and 5692's cheaper in a retail facility than on the 'bay. I've been watching red base 5692's, as I'd like to hear one. As soon as they hit the auction block, some people start hitting 5 & 7 day auctions hard with high bids on the first day. Makes it tough.

 Earlier in my career as a radio technician, I remember being able to go downtown to what was called "Radio Row" in NYC. It was a city block of radio surplus shops with bins and bins of tubes to test and buy for a song. From tiny micro-sized tubes all the way to klystrons, it was all there. Now there is ebay and a vast majority of thieves, peppered with some decent fellas along the way.

 (end off-topic reminiscing/rant)




_

 



 Chris, do you have an example of this? I've always found it was just the opposite. eBay being cheaper, and boutique stores costing a lot more...






 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

Chris-

 I agree, sadly, that ebay is not what it once was. Unfortunately, 'people', over time, will ruin every good thing that comes along. Although it is usually my go-to place for things like tubes, I am increasingly looking elsewhere for those and other things that interest me...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chris, do you have an example of this? I've always found it was just the opposite. eBay being cheaper, and boutique stores costing a lot more...

 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 Nickola, my man, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is one example for the 6SN7 variants: https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7.htm

 I want to clarify that other locations aren't better than ebay, just lately for me, some of them are.

 I just scored a slick 6sn7 for $3.50 on the 'bay. Right place, right time, and I didn't have to snipe.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chris-

 I agree, sadly, that ebay is not what it once was. Unfortunately, 'people', over time, will ruin every good thing that comes along. Although it is usually my go-to place for things like tubes, I am increasingly looking elsewhere for those and other things that interest me..._

 

Agreed, Joe. I remember when bike nights were fun. Now with the mainstream influx of "bikers", they're nothing more than sausage-fests. It's all relative, I suppose.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nickola, my man, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here is one example for the 6SN7 variants: https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7.htm

 I want to clarify that other locations aren't better than ebay, just lately for me, some of them are.

 I just scored a slick 6sn7 for $3.50 on the 'bay. Right place, right time, and I didn't have to snipe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Which places have been better for tubes online? For the most part, about 95% of the time, you will pay less than the going rate for most tubes on eBay.


----------



## Skylab

Couple comments:

 1. The Darkvoice 337 uses the 6SJ7 (not the 6SL7) as the driver tube. It _can_ use a 6SL7 as the power tube instead of the 6AS7, or at least it worked for me, although I prefer the 6AS7 in some ways. Not sure that DV would sanction the use of the 6SL7 as the power tube, though. The 336i can almost certainly use the 6SL7 as the POWER tube, but I cannot say for sure, I have not tried it, and it is POSSIBLE it wouldn't work, so proceed at your own risk.

 2. Plentiful tubes are cheaper on EBay. Tubes that are harder to get are often cheaper at places like tubedepot, tubeworld, and Antique Electronic Supply. For example, you can get a TESTED RCA Red Base 5692 (used) from AES for $49. They almost always sell for more that on EBay. The key - do your research both places, and then you know what you should pay.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Couple comments:

 2. Plentiful tubes are cheaper on EBay. Tubes that are harder to get are often cheaper at places like tubedepot, tubeworld, and Antique Electronic Supply. For example, you can get a TESTED RCA Red Base 5692 (used) from AES for $49. They almost always sell for more that on EBay. The key - do your research both places, and then you know what you should pay._

 

Thanks, Rob. The online tube purchasing game has been a difficult one for me. Good to know that I have some good coaches on this forum.

 You and Nick are my sha_men_.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to know that I have some good coaches on this forum._

 

I agree. Even though this thread is approaching 60 pages, there is still much more knowledge to be gained here. Skylab and Nick are two of our best resources. Let's try to keep this thread near the top, gentlemen...


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Anyone think 22 USD for a Tung-Sol 6SN7 is a good deal?

 How does it compare with a Sylvania?


----------



## Jo6Pak

I'm using a Sylvania 'chrome dome' in the front position now and liking it. To which Tung-Sol are you referring? The new production 'Made in Russia' ones? I bought one recently, tried it and soon trashed it. Best not make decisions based on my experience, however, as I have little or no patience with things of this nature. I can, however vouch for the Sylvania. I have been using it paired with an RCA 6AS7G and, so far, it has been the best combo for me...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dr. Strangelove* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone think 22 USD for a Tung-Sol 6SN7 is a good deal?

 How does it compare with a Sylvania?_

 

TS..what? We need more than just 6SN7. Is it a 6SN7GT, 6SN7GTB, etc. 


 and same goes for Sylvania.. Is it a 6SN7GT, 6SN7GTB etc.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. Even though this thread is approaching 60 pages, there is still much more knowledge to be gained here. Skylab and Nick are two of our best resources. Let's try to keep this thread near the top, gentlemen..._

 


 Hey, let's not forget Negatron (Mike) either. He doesn't post as much as I, or Skylab, but he's got TONS of information on tubes, and is a reliable source as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Your comments are much appreciated.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Yes, I forgot to mention Neg and probably others. Thanks to everyone and keep it all coming. Since it is now 'winter' here in Tex-ass (it was 50 here today), i'm spending less time on the scoot and more time indoors, which means more time with cans on my head and more time at the PC in places like this. I'm happy either way...


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TS..what? We need more than just 6SN7. Is it a 6SN7GT, 6SN7GTB, etc. 


 and same goes for Sylvania.. Is it a 6SN7GT, 6SN7GTB etc._

 

Here is the list of tubes I gave him that I have a interest in:

  Quote:


 Here is a list of what I'm interested in:
 -Power
 Red-Base RCA 6AS7/5692
 Brown-Base RCA 6AS7
 Raytheon 6080
 Tung-Sol 5998 

 -Driver
 Tung-Sol 6SN7
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB

 Nos or lightly used are ok, re-brands are ok. 
 

Here was his reply:

  Quote:


 Only tubes I can help you with are the Tungsol and syl
 6sn7's. Have none of the others your looking for. Best
 regards, ______ 
 

When I asked how much they were, here is what he said:

  Quote:


 Both the Syls and T/S both go for about 20-25$ per
 tube plus shipping for this type. . If you want to
 pick them up We can go $22 per tube. These are baby
 sweet and you know where I live. _____ 
 

So I guess the Sylvania is a GTB.


----------



## nick20

I'll give you some help.



 There's no "red-base" 6AS7 anything. The red-base 5692 you mentioned, is a front tube, not a rear tube. Brown-base 6AS7's aren't easy to come by. I think Rob has one, a ECC-something. Because I remember asking about it.



 I still can't give you a fair comparison, because the GT sounds different than the GTB. And so forth. 

 I would ask the seller what type of 6SN7 it is. It's likely a GTB, but let's make sure.






 -Nick


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

I did ask but he replied:

  Quote:


 Well you must understand that I am a business guy. I
 don't have time to answer 1 hour worth of q's for 10$.
 You know what you wantr or you don't. What ever dude.
 Buy wghat you want. 
 

Not very assuring.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dr. Strangelove* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did ask but he replied:



 Not very assuring._

 



 stay away... look elsewhere...


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dr. Strangelove* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone think 22 USD for a Tung-Sol 6SN7 is a good deal?

 How does it compare with a Sylvania?_

 

Dr. Strangelove
 I am pretty sure all of your questions can be answered in this thread.
 I did some reading from page 1 but was not complete and later on I realized this is a 95% worth reading post by post thread. (except those rant posts out of no where) I am going to take notes of this thread from page 1 later.. I would recommend you take a little bit of time and read this post. "I" think it's worth it.

 I recall I got my reissued Tung-Sol 6SN7 off ebay for $15~17 plus shipping and the seller offer 30/45 days return/exchange no question asked. more over.. he pays two way shipping for the return/exchange. 

 I wish I could tell you how the Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB sounds compare to Sylvania, but I can't because the buzz from the Tung-Sol wouldn't stop.. I am waiting for my power-cord to see if it that cuts off the problem. (I been burn in the tube for almost a day now.) Three other used Sylvania 6SN7GTB I got are also giving me the buzz.. only 1 used Sylvania 6SN7GTB and 2 RCA red-base 5692 aren't giving me the buzz.. kinda funny eh? the worst and best in the stock aren't giving me problem. (but maybe it's because the RCA red base is screwed too.. that's why I bought a tube tester today.)

 Skylab recommended reissued Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB for someone who was using Sylvania 6SN7GTB for more live/crisp sound. 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3463088-post404.html

 HeadphoneAddict also mention Tung-Sol being detailed.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3463332-post405.html

 It is true sometimes it is hard for people to put effort in when they only make a few dollars off the item (like a JAN tube I got for 4 dollars mean seller.. but it's DIRT cheap and it works) You can't really blame them? This isn't the "good old" days anymore... well.. for most of the parts......... maybe.... anyway.....let's talk tubes.


----------



## nick20

Furia, in regards to the "buzz" or "hum". 



 Give it some time. When I bought my 336i, used from these forums, it included a NOS smoked-glass RCA 6SN7GT. It buzzed really bad, and I read it could take some time.


 After 24 hours of continuous pink/white-noise combo, the buzz died down, but was still pretty bad.

 Finally, after almost 100 hours, it is buzz/hum free. This is not all so common, but 36-48 hours is when MOST tubes stop buzzing, or the buzz/hum has become much more manageable. 

 I have read that NOS/near NOS that haven't been used since they were issued, have a terrible time getting rid of the buzz/hum.








 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

It's funny that I now have a "real" vintage Tung-Sol brown base 6SN7GTB, and even though that is the exact tube the Russian replica is supposed to be a copy of, the vintage USA made original is much nicer sounding than the copy. Also no buzz at all.

 But it might buzz in the 336i, who knows. The Darkvoice amps (336i and 337) are a little tube-fussy (versus my Singlepower amp which has no issue with any good tube I stick in there). That's why there is the Fitz hum mod for the 336i, which makes it able to accept most 6SN7's with no issues.


----------



## YZHI

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Furia, in regards to the "buzz" or "hum". 



 Give it some time. When I bought my 336i, used from these forums, it included a NOS smoked-glass RCA 6SN7GT. It buzzed really bad, and I read it could take some time.


 After 24 hours of continuous pink/white-noise combo, the buzz died down, but was still pretty bad.

 Finally, after almost 100 hours, it is buzz/hum free. This is not all so common, but 36-48 hours is when MOST tubes stop buzzing, or the buzz/hum has become much more manageable. 

 I have read that NOS/near NOS that haven't been used since they were issued, have a terrible time getting rid of the buzz/hum.








 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Is this the one you sold to me? the pop buzz is still there, I was scared the first time i heard it. But the smoke glass has such a refinement and beautiful sound, it surpasses other 6sn7 I have.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *YZHI* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this the one you sold to me? the pop buzz is still there, I was scared the first time i heard it. But the smoke glass has such a refinement and beautiful sound, it surpasses other 6sn7 I have._

 


 Negative. I had two...


 What sort of "pop buzz" are you hearing? Is it in both channels? I tested the tube before shipping it out to you. I was not aware of any "buzz" sound. It sounded good to me. Thus, it went out for shipment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I would not sell something that is not functional and/or broken in any sort of way. I'm a honest seller, and there's quite a few members just on this thread that have bought from me before and are totally happy.

 ALSO: Is your 336i brand new? Since mine has well over 750 hours on it, all the components are very well burnt-in. Maybe yours is still new and parts are starting to burn-in. Thus you are hearing something I could not.


----------



## Negatron

I have yet to find an 6SN7 that the Hum does not go away with the exception of the Electro Harmonix tubes.

 I have a total of around 30 6SN7's of varied flavors, many have been NOS I have had stashed for 15-20 years and merely tested in a Hickok then a Stereo Amp and set aside. Half the old tubes I have tried in the 336i from recently acquired 40+ year old tubes to old stuff on hand have hummed in the DV. ALL have stopped after a run-in with pink noise or just let it run from USB and forget for awhile.

 I would rather take the time to let the tube 'burn off.' than use a cathode cap. However, the Fitz mod is based on a fairly standard practice in tube amp design, I just hate cathode caps in any amp. If you only have a few tubes and can't wait, the 'Fitz mod' is a very good solution. but at least use a high quality low ESR cap. They are audible.

 Regarding the re-issue Tung-Sols, the old ones were built with tolerances in the 'Tens', that's in ten thousandths of an inch. I sort of doubt the new ones are made that way, nor are the same alloys used.
 There are still a ton of NOS & test as new tubes out there, there are really not that many of us doing this. (Tubes)


----------



## Jo6Pak

Hey Neg-

 I'm curious to hear _your_ opinion of the 5998 in the 336i. It may be my next tube purchase...


----------



## Furia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have yet to find an 6SN7 that the Hum does not go away with the exception of the Electro Harmonix tubes.

 I have a total of around 30 6SN7's of varied flavors, many have been NOS I have had stashed for 15-20 years and merely tested in a Hickok then a Stereo Amp and set aside. Half the old tubes I have tried in the 336i from recently acquired 40+ year old tubes to old stuff on hand have hummed in the DV. ALL have stopped after a run-in with pink noise or just let it run from USB and forget for awhile.

 I would rather take the time to let the tube 'burn off.' than use a cathode cap. However, the Fitz mod is based on a fairly standard practice in tube amp design, I just hate cathode caps in any amp. If you only have a few tubes and can't wait, the 'Fitz mod' is a very good solution. but at least use a high quality low ESR cap. They are audible._

 

I did not want to mod my DV 336i because I thought the mod would effect the sound quality and I guess you confirmed it.

 I can't really wait because I only have 1 tube amp.. that would be all the reason for me not wanting to deal with tubes that buzz. Buzzing tubes burn in = no music >< 

 I recently purchased a Knight tube tester.. can I use the tester to burn in? (if possible and won't kill the tester's life span)

 what do you mean by "run from USB?" is that another way to burn in tubes without using tube amp? or is there another way at all?

 perhaps I am not being aggressive on my burn in.
 my burn-in sound track
 1min pink > 1min silent > 1 min high freq > 10sec silent 
 > 10 sec ultra high freq > 1 min silent > 30sec ultra freq > 5 min silent.. 
 then repeat.. Am I being too "gentle" during the burn in?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Neg-

 I'm curious to hear your opinion of the 5998 in the 336i. It may be my next tube purchase..._

 


 I can't speak for him, but I am the only one who uses a 5998 in the 336i. Rob (Skylab) uses them in his 337 I believe. Which uses the 6AS7/6SL7 combo I believe.

 Mike (Negatron) envy's my sole ownership of the 5998.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not want to mod my DV 336i because I thought the mod would effect the sound quality and I guess you confirmed it.

 I can't really wait because I only have 1 tube amp.. that would be all the reason for me not wanting to deal with tubes that buzz. Buzzing tubes burn in = no music >< 

 I recently purchased a Knight tube tester.. can I use the tester to burn in? (if possible and won't kill the tester's life span)

 what do you mean by "run from USB?" is that another way to burn in tubes without using tube amp? or is there another way at all?

 perhaps I am not being aggressive on my burn in.
 my burn-in sound track
 1min pink > 1min silent > 1 min high freq > 10sec silent 
 > 10 sec ultra high freq > 1 min silent > 30sec ultra freq > 5 min silent.. 
 then repeat.. Am I being too "gentle" during the burn in?_

 


 I can't answer this one honestly, but I'll take a stab. 

 From what little knowledge I have with tube testers, I don't think you can hook up a source to the tube tester to run sounds through it. I believe the sole purpose is to test tubes, that's all.

 I would change your "burn-in" track to something like this.


 20 minutes pink-noise, 10 minutes white noise, 2 minutes of silence. Repeat for tracks four through whatever.. 





 I hope this helps...




 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am the only one who uses a 5998 in the 336i._

 

That changes on Friday...


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Neg-

 I'm curious to hear your opinion of the 5998 in the 336i. It may be my next tube purchase..._

 

Too many brain cells vibrated to death by Knucks, Pans & Shovels. I tend to be a bit off the reservation with my preferences. It depends on my mood at the time but My prefered tube is between the Sylvania and Hytron VT-231, followed by the 40's Sylvania chrome tops and the t-plate Tung-Sols, from there the Grey Glass RCA and the 5998. All of these are of course with the 336i and my are top choices.

 I also like the Side Getter RCA's for some music, a tube I find very under rated (and dirt cheap)

 For most everyday listening with the 336, I usually have a chrome top or flat plate RCA plugged in since I have a bunch of each. Truth be told I'm as likely to change amps as tubes when the mood strikes. (This is really a sickness after all, you do know that I hope 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Swapping tubes is really a trap that has no end. Different does not mean better.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Chris-

 Please post your assessment, once you've had a chance to fire that puppy up. I'm very curious...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That changes on Friday... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I hope so! I'm so lonely... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 we need more 5998 users... who have a deep appreciation for tubes...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Will do... I scored a Tung Sol JAN 5998 and a CBS Hytron Brown Base 5692.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too many brain cells vibrated to death by Knucks, Pans & Shovels._

 

My Dyna has shocks and the TC88 is rubber mounted, so vibration isn't much of a problem for me. However, my right ear sometimes wishes I hadn't installed the V&H.

 Thanks for your input...


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Furia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did not want to mod my DV 336i because I thought the mod would effect the sound quality and I guess you confirmed it.

 I can't really wait because I only have 1 tube amp.. that would be all the reason for me not wanting to deal with tubes that buzz. Buzzing tubes burn in = no music >< 

 I recently purchased a Knight tube tester.. can I use the tester to burn in? (if possible and won't kill the tester's life span)

 what do you mean by "run from USB?" is that another way to burn in tubes without using tube amp? or is there another way at all?

 perhaps I am not being aggressive on my burn in.
 my burn-in sound track
 1min pink > 1min silent > 1 min high freq > 10sec silent 
 > 10 sec ultra high freq > 1 min silent > 30sec ultra freq > 5 min silent.. 
 then repeat.. Am I being too "gentle" during the burn in?_

 

No, a tube tester will not burn in a tube. By USB, I mean load a shoutcast stream from computer and let the amp run while I do more productive things.

 You can use any cd player on repeat and just let it run into the amp with a cheap set of $1 phones plugged in. I let 'em run all day and night if need be. I know there are a bunch of old ladies around who are afraid to leave a tube amp un attended, but I have used tube amps since the 60's and am still here.

 Heck. I've Pi**ed off women more dangerous than tube amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Time will cure the hum. Pink noise is the full audio spectrum in equal levels and is quickest in doing a burn-in.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Dyna has shocks and the TC88 is rubber mounted,_

 

I ride a rigid and pee blood.

 Someday, I'll have a Road King with a Barker Lounger strapped to it.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Dyna has shocks and the TC88 is rubber mounted, so vibration isn't much of a problem for me. However, my right ear sometimes wishes I hadn't installed the V&H.

 Thanks for your input..._

 

Put on a pair of Cycle Shack shorties and, you'll have more lowend torque and about the same top end without ears ringing. And if you want to live dangerously, Marshmallows, cranking ZZ Top or George Thorogood also cuts down the noise and you can still hear the car that is changing lanes on top of you.

 edit: I know it's kinda' OT but the Marshmallows are sort of a 'save'


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ride a rigid and pee blood.

 Someday, I'll have a Road King with a Barker Lounger strapped to it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a rigid Shovel Kicker 10.5:1, and have only had 1 bobber with shocks and never anything newer than a Shovel stroker & everything comes out blood free. I ride daily, not just weekends. (Way OT) I have a couple iRivers.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a rigid Shovel Kicker 10.5:1, and have only had 1 bobber with shocks and never anything newer than a Shovel stroker & everything comes out blood free. I ride daily, not just weekends. (Way OT) I have a couple iRivers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll have to start a motorcycle thread in the general section so that we can chat. My rigid is a bobber with a kick/electric start. Put the electric in after spinal surgery. Screw Jumping with a hot cam.

 Sorry... I digress. Back on-topic.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to start a motorcycle thread in the general section so that we can chat. My rigid is a bobber with a kick/electric start. Put the electric in after spinal surgery. Screw Jumping with a hot cam.

 Sorry... I digress. Back on-topic._

 

I will admit my shovel bobber has a starter button, but I am addicted to rigids, have been since the 60's. Oh Yeah , I ride to trailer week. End of Scooter Mini-thread. Done, fini....


----------



## rivieraranch

I put in a used RCA 6SN7GT black plate that had red print, probably late 1950's manufacture and the left channel began humming. I turned it on after a few hours and the humming is less, but was still there. 

 I am going to swap that tube out for the smoked glass RCA I obtained with this lot. 

 I cleaned off the pins with steel wool and doused them with Bacardi, from a miniature bottle that I found around the house.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ride daily, not just weekends._

 

I guess that makes me the resident poser here, then. I used to ride every day until I was transferred to working the night shift about a year ago. These days I find myself spending WAY too much time in the cage. Got lazy and too comfortable. Plus, after several beers, it holds itself up...

 I never listen to tunes when riding. I need my full, undivided attention to navigate the traffic here in DFW and keep from becoming road kill. Even then, its a toss-up. 

 Plus, my DV won't run on 12 volts and I'm not really into portables...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I put in a used RCA 6SN7GT black plate that had red print, probably late 1950's manufacture and the left channel began humming. I turned it on after a few hours and the humming is less, but was still there. 

 I cleaned off the pins with steel wool and doused them with Bacardi, from a miniature bottle that I found around the house._

 

So now you have a drunk and underused tube. Let them burn... The hum will go away.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cleaned off the pins with steel wool and doused them with Bacardi, from a miniature bottle that I found around the house._

 


 Not good. 


 Alcohol = sugar, sugar = faster corrosion



 Next time, find you some rubbing alcohol, and Caig Dexoit/Gold products.


Home - CAIG Laboratories, Inc.






 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ <snip>

 I cleaned off the pins with steel wool and doused them with Bacardi, from a miniature bottle that I found around the house._

 

That has got to be the only way to listen to old Dean Martin records though.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I put in a used RCA 6SN7GT black plate that had red print, probably late 1950's manufacture and the left channel began humming. I turned it on after a few hours and the humming is less, but was still there. 

 I am going to swap that tube out for the smoked glass RCA I obtained with this lot. 
 ._

 

Give the tube more time, that RCA is a nice sounding tube. The Hum will go away.

 edit: Note for tube cleaning. All you really need to do is use an old tooth brush, brush the pins with rubbing alchohol and rinse with tap water and let dry. Treating with Caig is a real plus but if you don't have any, the brushing will get rid of any pin noise.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That has got to be the only way to listen to old Dean Martin records though._

 

LMAO!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Vooooooo-lare, Whooooa-Oh!


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't speak for him, but I am the only one who uses a 5998 in the 336i. Rob (Skylab) uses them in his 337 I believe. Which uses the 6AS7/6SL7 combo I believe._

 

You might be the only one using a 5998 in a 336i, however, I have used both grey and black plate 5998s in my 336FM and they are great sounding tubes. I find that they work best with higher impedance cans. Another tube very similar to the 5998 is the 2399 but the only source that I have been able to find for them is Single Power Audio.

 Happy Tube Rolling!


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That has got to be the only way to listen to old Dean Martin records though._

 

I have a 1989 CD release of "Winter Romance" from 1959. For some reason they included some studio chatter before a couple of the tracks.


----------



## rivieraranch

The title says it all. And my Girl Diana In that Other Room never sounded better!


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abs@nilenet.com* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might be the only one using a 5998 in a 336i, however, I have used both grey and black plate 5998s in my 336FM and they are great sounding tubes. I find that they work best with higher impedance cans. Another tube very similar to the 5998 is the 2399 but the only source that I have been able to find for them is Single Power Audio.

 Happy Tube Rolling!_

 

After me mixing up 5692 with 5998, and feeling the senile idiot, AES had 5998's awhile back but not now. It might be worth a call to find out if they expect to source more.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Tubeworld has 5998's also.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you for such a generous offer. Could you send me a personal message when you receive these tubes._

 

rivieraranch,

 Earlier in the Dark Voice 336i tube rolling thread, I mentioned I got some extra Russian NOS vintage 1965 6N8S tubes made in the famous "radiator" plant (same as 6H8C that are equivalent to 6SN7 tubes.)

 I was out of town till Sunday for my father's funeral. I just installed one tonight to try out. I get some hum right away, but usually that goes away with burn-in. 

 The tube sounds very nice with my JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G tube in the rear. I put on one of my favorites, Jazz at the Pawnshop. It has the big sound stage but with the forward and intimate saxophone just the way I like it.

 I listened to the new tube for about 10 minutes and then put my used $49 Hytron (CBS) 5692 Brownbase back in the front to listen. The Russian has a little midbass hump that the 5692 doesn't have, but otherwise is just as detailed. It is warmer and less sterile than the Tung Sol 6SN7GT or CBS 6SN7GTB, which is a nice sounding tube itself (but more SS sounding). I still have a Raytheon 6SN7xxx from Skylab to try out after I burn-in this one.

 IF the hum goes away with burn-in like usual, this Russian would be AT least my second choice tube (if not higher) out of 5 or 6 I have tried (including stock chinese and a $49 5692 brownbase), with CBS 6SN7GTB 3rd, and Tung Sol 6SN7GT fourth. The 5692 is starting to sound a little light in the bass now that I have heard this one, so I put it back in to burn-in the tube and enjoy it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can sell you a new one now, or you can wait to hear how it does with burn-in.

 Larry

 PS: The Russian "radiator" tube sounds great with my Denon AH-D2000 and APS V2 cable, but the Darth Beyers just might have too much bass with it (well, they have too much bass right out of my macbook and ipod too). So, I just now grabbed my Grado RS-2 with APS V3 re-cable, and the excessive bass issue is with the Darth Beyers only


----------



## Skylab

I bet nobody here has tried out THESE 6SN7's yet:






 (Yes, these are actually 6SN7 tubes)...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bet nobody here has tried out THESE 6SN7's yet:






 (Yes, these are actually 6SN7 tubes)...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I saw some on eBay go for about $130 a pair. Clear glass however, not blue. I saw some discussion on tube-asylum a while back.




 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

I wish they were cheap, I would get some just for yucks. But at those prices, fughetabotit.


----------



## Gollie

New production tubes?


----------



## SoFlaChris

They look like hooters


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New production tubes?_

 


 I THINK the Chinese made some in the earlier times. Maybe the 30's/40's? However I don't know if these are or aren't. I remember reading something about the "blue globe" 6SN7's, but I wasn't sure what I was reading until now.


----------



## Gollie

As head-fi grows I wonder if we will gobble up all the available tubes. There has to be a finite supply.

 I'm sure most companies would never think to go back and invest in r/d to make a new tube. The future will be interesting I guess...

 I accidentally left my amp on lastnight after I fell asleep. It ran for about 6 hours and this morning it was pretty hot. Not to hot to touch but very hot. Is 6 hours to long?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As head-fi grows I wonder if we will gobble up all the available tubes. There has to be a finite supply.

 I'm sure most companies would never think to go back and invest in r/d to make a new tube. The future will be interesting I guess...

 I accidentally left my amp on lastnight after I fell asleep. It ran for about 6 hours and this morning it was pretty hot. Not to hot to touch but very hot. Is 6 hours to long?_

 



 IMO, no. I have left it on with some "junk" tubes, for more than 8 hours..


 Mike (Negatron) has been using tube's for many, many years, and hasn't had a problem using them for prolong periods. 







 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As head-fi grows I wonder if we will gobble up all the available tubes. There has to be a finite supply.

 I'm sure most companies would never think to go back and invest in r/d to make a new tube. The future will be interesting I guess...

 I accidentally left my amp on lastnight after I fell asleep. It ran for about 6 hours and this morning it was pretty hot. Not to hot to touch but very hot. Is 6 hours to long?_

 

I wouldn't worry about your amp at all. I leave my tube amps on all day.

 W/r/t tubes, at least for now, there isn't a finite supply of 6SN7's since at least the re-issued Russian Tung-sol's are still in production. 6AS7's might eventually become scarce, I suppose, as that tube isn't in production anywhere that I know of. But given how cheap the Russian ones are, I bet there are HUGE warehouses full of them. And NOS 6080's are easy to get, brand new, for under $10 from LOTS of places. So I think the tube faction on head-fi would have to get VERY large indeed for this to become much of a problem...


----------



## nick20

*Woooohooo! *


 I just scored a very nice, almost NOS 1952 Sylvania "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT.


 It's got the green label, chrome bottom/clear top, and 3-holed plates. Tests 75+ where 50 is minimum. 

 Here's the difference between the 1952 "Bad Boys" and other Sylvania 6SN7GT's. 

 ("Bad Boy" left | Earlier/later models right)







_"I've taken apart many tubes before (I'm a curious cat). Abive is a picture of a Bad Boy side-by-side with an earlier Sylvania 6SN7GT. Granted, there were several iterations of the earlier 6SN7GT as well as the Bad Boys, so these samples provide limited insight; Still, it is interesting to visually and clearly see differences in design. And then there's other factors we can't see - such as the quailty of the vacuum - which could very realistically effect sound quality. 

 The tubes needn't be from 1952, as some of this particular design people refer to as "Bad Boys" were made in the last few weeks of 1951 and early 1953. They all have 3 holes on each plate, and some have shinier micas while others are dull (all have serrated edges on the top mica). All Bad Boys employ copper extensively in their construction. 

 I have never seen a Sylvania 6SN7GT tall bottle made past 1953. The Sylvania "Bad Boys" seem to be the very last run of this design from all the hundreds of Sylvania 6SN7GT specimens I've possessed. 

 My hunch is that this particular production of tubes was made in only one factory during the winding down period of this design's production run. Per the date codes I've seen, there only seems to be 5, maybe 6 weeks in which the "Bad Boy" design was issued. Previous Sylvania 6SN7GTs were produced at far greater frequency and quantity."_



*Final Price:* $8.50

*Normal going rate:* $50-$100 a tube, NOS.

 1952 "Bad Boys" aka as "Holy Grail of 6SN7's".. 



 I couldn't resist this purchase.. too good to let go..



 EDIT:

_Sylvania "Bad Boys" 6SN7GT (1951-1953): World class everything. Imagine the Sylvania VT-231. Now imagine it with bass in spades! What you have is Sylvania 6SN7GT from this era, often reverently referred to as "Bad Boys." This tube is often mentioned in "best 6SN7" discussions._

 This is from the same person who wrote the above paragraph. 


 EDIT2: This is my 100th post in this forum... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT3: Here's a link for a nice pair.. cost? $195

PAIR SYLVANIA 6SN7 GT BAD BOYS OF '52 - (eBay item 120198126172 end time Dec-20-07 14:48:31 PST)

 Notice the 3-holed plates..






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Wow, nice Nick! I have to go look at my Sylvania tubes...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Sweet score, dude! *8.50*? Holy smoke.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, nice Nick! I have to go look at my Sylvania tubes..._

 



 I'm sure you might have one, or at least one of the earler/later GT production models. 


 I KNOW you have ton's-o-tubes..


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sweet score, dude! *8.50*? Holy smoke._

 

<--------- El-King-of-deals...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I THINK the Chinese made some in the earlier times. Maybe the 30's/40's? However I don't know if these are or aren't. I remember reading something about the "blue globe" 6SN7's, but I wasn't sure what I was reading until now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 These are the one's I was talking about. I have no idea where/when/who made the "blue globe" 6SN7's.


2 Brand new 6SN7GT (5692 / cv1988 / 6sn7 ) - (eBay item 300181370620 end time Dec-17-07 18:42:01 PST)


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_<--------- El-King-of-deals... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

"Cheap Nick's World of Tubes... That's right tube fans... SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!!!"


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*Woooohooo! *


 I just scored a very nice, almost NOS 1952 Sylvania "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT.


 It's got the green label, chrome bottom/clear top, and 3-holed plates. Tests 75+ where 50 is minimum. 

 Here's the difference between the 1952 "Bad Boys" and other Sylvania 6SN7GT's. 
 <Photo snip>

"I've taken apart many tubes before (I'm a curious cat). Abive is a picture of a Bad Boy side-by-side with an earlier Sylvania 6SN7GT. Granted, there were several iterations of the earlier 6SN7GT as well as the Bad Boys, so these samples provide limited insight; Still, it is interesting to visually and clearly see differences in design. And then there's other factors we can't see - such as the quailty of the vacuum - which could very realistically effect sound quality. 

 The tubes needn't be from 1952, as some of this particular design people refer to as "Bad Boys" were made in the last few weeks of 1951 and early 1953. They all have 3 holes on each plate, and some have shinier micas while others are dull (all have serrated edges on the top mica). All Bad Boys employ copper extensively in their construction. 

 I have never seen a Sylvania 6SN7GT tall bottle made past 1953. The Sylvania "Bad Boys" seem to be the very last run of this design from all the hundreds of Sylvania 6SN7GT specimens I've possessed. 

 My hunch is that this particular production of tubes was made in only one factory during the winding down period of this design's production run. Per the date codes I've seen, there only seems to be 5, maybe 6 weeks in which the "Bad Boy" design was issued. Previous Sylvania 6SN7GTs were produced at far greater frequency and quantity."



*Final Price:* $8.50

*Normal going rate:* $50-$100 a tube, NOS.

 1952 "Bad Boys" aka as "Holy Grail of 6SN7's".. 

 I couldn't resist this purchase.. too good to let go.._

 

Very nice Photos Nick. And be grateful Head-Fi is a relativly small community because "The Cat's out of the Bag" on a super tube. They are still out there cheap. (wanna' bet you just lit up the search engines?)

 note to other Head-Fiers: Study Nick's photos closely because there are tubes being sold as "Bad Boys" that are not. But then that works both ways -
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're Gonna' end up "Nick the Tube Guru" soon. Hafta' change your login.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice Photos Nick. And be grateful Head-Fi is a relativly small community because "The Cat's out of the Bag" on a super tube. They are still out there cheap. (wanna' bet you just lit up the search engines?)

 note to other Head-Fiers: Study Nick's photos closely because there are tubes being sold as "Bad Boys" that are not. But then that works both ways -
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're Gonna' end up "Nick the Tube Guru" soon. Hafta' change your login. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thank you Mike. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The photos aren't mine, I found them via google though. 

 Oh, I bet this discussion lit up the search engines for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 The seller had NO idea what he was selling. And to make sure I was seeing what I saw in the picture, I had him tell me how many holes were in the plates. His reply "three". That's all I needed to seal the deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really enjoy learning and teaching. It goes back to my past, where I had to learn everything first hand.. now, everything I know, I enjoy teaching and sharing with others. It makes me feel "warm and fuzzy" inside when I help someone out. 





 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ <snip>

 I accidentally left my amp on lastnight after I fell asleep. It ran for about 6 hours and this morning it was pretty hot. Not to hot to touch but very hot. Is 6 hours to long?_

 

I have a Modified LD MKIV with freshly installed BlackGates I have had running for 4 days straight with Pink Noise as I write. Be it a new build or a mod, I will run Blackgate caps (or Cerafines & Silmics) a week, running 24/7 and I always burn in any new builds at least 3 days 24/7 with no problems.

 It was very common practice in early Florida because of the high Humidity and no A/C to run old tube recievers and amps in store music and PA systems 24/7 to keep the controls and sockets from becoming noisy. Not to worry about a few hours.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ <snip>
 The seller had NO idea what he was selling. And to make sure I was seeing what I saw in the picture, I had him tell me how many holes were in the plates. His reply "three". That's all I needed to seal the deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 <snip>

 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I love it when it works that way!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love it when it works that way!_

 



 That's how it's been for me lately.. I'll just wait and wait and wait until I find what I'm looking for, for what I can afford to pay. Which isn't usually a lot..


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's how it's been for me lately.. I'll just wait and wait and wait until I find what I'm looking for, for what I can afford to pay. Which isn't usually a lot.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Patience can make life far cheaper to live as well as more rewarding.

 I tended to find working 50 hrs, 4 days a week and searching hard for bargains 3 days netted the greatest gain over working 7 days, paying through the nose and naving no time to enjoy the overpriced purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (A bargain hunters philosophy)


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They look like hooters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the fake kind; implants.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I bet this discussion lit up the search engines for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You have no idea! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm seeing some very familiar names while doing a Sylvania 6SN7 search on ebay.


----------



## Robgo

I just bought one. Hopefully shipping doesn't take excessively long.

 What are some good tubes to go with Beyer DT880s?

 I'm thinking I'd like nice crisp highs but not too shrill or harsh. I guess people refer to that as rolling highs on here. I'd like punchy mid and mid bass. Something to contrast my somewhat lively (organic sounding but not punchy if that makes sense) but very cold and boomy Axiom M3Ti's. Mids are kind of weak with the Axiom M3Ti's. 

 I listen to folk, classical music. Bartok, Shostakovich, Ligetia, Lovely female vocal music but some weird stuff as well (black metal at times which is often terribly produced but I think will still sound nice over a tube) 

 I'm thinking about trying some weird tubes like the Russian tubes people mention or ww2 era tubes but I guess I really need to experiment with things.

 Will I need any sort of tube tester so that I don't accidentally blow out the amp? (I'm a total noob to this obviously)


----------



## Skylab

You don't *need* a tube tester if you buy tubes from someone who for sure tests them (like tubedepot, tubeworld, or AES), but even then it's a pretty good idea. I think if you're going to do much tube buying off EBay, a tube tester is pretty critical, even just a basic one that will show the tube has no shorts or leaks, like a Sencore Mighty Mite or the like. I eventually went with a full mutual transconductance tester (a B&K), but that was more when I wanted to start SELLING tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for what tubes to use with DT880's, you want SMOOTH, man. Go for all RCA Grey-plates.


----------



## Gollie

I finally got my RCA 6AS7G. It does liven up my bass! I have to say, it was definately a good thing that my tube took a little while to get here. I got some good hours on my DV and really listened to the sound with the stock power tube. The the over all sound is better now that I have the RCA instead of the stock but my low range in particular does not seem to "quit" like it did before. 

 As soon as I get this hiss to go away I think I can chill with this set up for a bit.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice Photos Nick. And be grateful Head-Fi is a relativly small community because "The Cat's out of the Bag" on a super tube. They are still out there cheap. (wanna' bet you just lit up the search engines?)

 note to other Head-Fiers: Study Nick's photos closely because there are tubes being sold as "Bad Boys" that are not. But then that works both ways -
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You're Gonna' end up "Nick the Tube Guru" soon. Hafta' change your login. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Somebody had to come up with a name for the post-1952 Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys", so I thought if they were the "Bad Boys" then the later 1950's Sylvania's were Good Boys, Good Ole Boys in fact. They still sound better than a lot of others out there.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somebody had to come up with a name for the post-1952 Sylvania 6SN7 "Bad Boys", so I thought if they were the "Bad Boys" then the later 1950's Sylvania's were Good Boys, Good Ole Boys in fact. They still sound better than a lot of others out there._

 

There is also pre/post 1951/late 1953 Sylvania 6SN7GT's with green lettering. But the difference is the materials used, vacuum tube, and the extensive amount of copper used in the "Bad Boys".

 If you didn't read all of my post, the true "Bad Boys" were only made from a certain period, in limited productions. They produced them for about a year and a half. That's it.


 You also don't want to pay the going rate for a "fake" Bad Boy (or mislabled). 

 I can't comment on the second part, however my Sylvania 6SN7GTB's sound pretty good. 






 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Ahhhh! Please don't click this link... I have to vent.. 


Western Electric 421A tube in box. - (eBay item 140188355066 end time Dec-18-07 18:56:24 PST)



 I just had to post for those curious.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I HOPE no one here won/paid for this item.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahhhh! Please don't click this link... I have to vent.. 


Western Electric 421A tube in box. - (eBay item 140188355066 end time Dec-18-07 18:56:24 PST)



 I just had to post for those curious.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I HOPE no one here won/paid for this item._

 

I did notice one local luminary who knows what a tube is worth and has 'auctionary' restraint.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did notice one local luminary who knows what a tube is worth and has 'auctionary' restraint. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah. After I saw this, I feel a lot better for paying $25 for mine.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which is the most expensive tube I've paid for...



 AHH! It get's worse.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A Triodes NOS Tested - (eBay item 270194637571 end time Dec-07-07 15:58:31 PST)
 (This one's $340 for a pair!!)

 and

WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A Triodes NOS Tested - (eBay item 270194637571 end time Dec-07-07 15:58:31 PST)


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did notice one local luminary who knows what a tube is worth and has 'auctionary' restraint. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I got out at $39.99 on that one. The "hooligan" knows when to walk away


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got out at $39.99 on that one. The "hooligan" knows when to walk away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are a wise man, indeed. One has to wonder whether some of these auctions are shill bidded in the first place.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did notice one local luminary who knows what a tube is worth and has 'auctionary' restraint. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, those of us who know what one should and shouldn't pay for these simply try to hope they might score one on the cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But paying $94 for a used one of these is pretty silly, when you can get a BRAND NEW 5998a from tubedepot.com for $27.95. Yes, what you get is the somewhat silly looking GE Pink Base, but it's still the exact same tube sonically.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, those of us who know what one should and shouldn't pay for these simply try to hope they might score one on the cheap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But paying $94 for a used one of these is pretty silly, when you can get a BRAND NEW 5998a from tubedepot.com for $27.95. Yes, what you get is the somewhat silly looking GE Pink Base, but it's still the exact same tube sonically._

 

If P.T. Barnum were alive today, he would happily be selling tubes.
 (But maybe multiple re-incarnation exists?)


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But paying $94 for a used one of these is pretty silly, when you can get a BRAND NEW 5998a from tubedepot.com for $27.95. Yes, what you get is the somewhat silly looking GE Pink Base, but it's still the exact same tube sonically._

 


 Skylab-

 Would you recommend one of those pink base 5998As in place of my current RCA 6AS7G? I'm curious about all 5998 hype. Still waiting for my CBS/Hytron for the front slot to arrive. Should be here any day now...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab-

 Would you recommend one of those pink base 5998As in place of my current RCA 6AS7G? I'm curious about all 5998 hype. Still waiting for my CBS/Hytron for the front slot to arrive. Should be here any day now..._

 

I'm not sure. I ordered a pair, as I was really curious about these specific tubes. They just arrived a few minutes ago. I won't get to listen to them until maybe tomorrow, but they do NOT have the exact same internals as the "regular" Tung-Sol 5998. The internals look almost like a cross between the 6AS7 and the 5998. Also, like GE's 6AS7's, these 5998's are not coke-bottle shaped. And the base is indeed pink. But as for how they sound, that answer will have to wait a few days.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not sure. I ordered a pair, as I was really curious about these specific tubes. They just arrived a few minutes ago. I won't get to listen to them until maybe tomorrow, but they do NOT have the exact same internals as the "regular" Tung-Sol 5998. The internals look almost like a cross between the 6AS7 and the 5998. Also, like GE's 6AS7's, these 5998's are not coke-bottle shaped. And the base is indeed pink. But as for how they sound, that answer will have to wait a few days._

 


 I remember reading the 5998a's aren't the "same" as the 5998, and I THINK the same goes for the 421a. I think a 421 isn't the same as a 421a. But I don't remember where or when I read this.


 I saw the 5998a's, and they kind of look like a girls tube. A mixture of a 6080 look and 6AS7, with a true "pink" base.


----------



## Skylab

No, the 421a is the same exact tube as the Tung-Sol 5998. They have the EXACT same internals. 100% identical.

 The 5998a, clearly, is different.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, the 421a is the same exact tube as the Tung-Sol 5998. They have the EXACT same internals. 100% identical.

 The 5998a, clearly, is different._

 


 I meant something different. I thought I remember seeing a 421 tube, and 421a tube. 

 Is there such a tube? A 421 tube, which is similar to the 421a tube? 



 Where as a 421 = 5998a 
 and 421a = 5998



 Is this possible, or did I just read the webpage wrong?


----------



## Skylab

I *really* do not think there is a WE 421. WE used it's own numbering scheme, but I have never ever seen a 421 with no A, and some searching the usual suspect web resources doesn't show one. 

 And there is NO DOUBT that the 421a and the 5998 are 100% identical except for branding. Whereas the 5998A is as different from the 5998 as a 6AS7GA is from a 6AS7G (and in many of the same ways, like not being in an ST shaped bottle).


----------



## Skylab

On another topic, I think, at long last, I have finally found the perfect 6SN7 variant for me - an RCA grey-glass JAN-CRC-VT231. Man, oh man - liquid, lush, and great bass. Detailed enough, but unfailingly pretty sounding. It wasn't cheap, since I wanted true NOS (was $40), but worth every penny IMO.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On another topic, I think, at long last, I have finally found the perfect 6SN7 variant for me - an RCA grey-glass JAN-CRC-VT231. Man, oh man - liquid, lush, and great bass. Detailed enough, but unfailingly pretty sounding. It wasn't cheap, since I wanted true NOS (was $40), but worth every penny IMO._

 


 They are nice tubes. I actually preferred the 6SN7GT version to the VT231 version. However, it is very likely that they came off the same production line, I have a feeling my 6SN7GT didn't. It sounded similar to the VT231, but not the same. Both my tubes tested "like NOS" so were close to true NOS. 

 I felt the 6SN7GT was more detailed, a little more airy as well. Along with the liquidity, lushness and bass. 


 Sadly, I passed one on to another member here, as I want to hear the other premium tubes out there. I won't forget this tube though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 Rob, I take it you didn't happen to have a 3-hole Sylvania laying around, did you? 

 IF, this Sylvania I receive sounds as good as everyone's comments on this ("world class everything"), I will send it to you for a listen, Rob. The "Bad Boy" should be arriving Saturday, or Monday at the latest.






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Funny, mine are labeled BOTH 6SN7GT and VT231. The key I think is JAN Grey Glass. Regardless, it's really terrific sounding, and SUPER quiet, with great dynamics..

 And no, my lone remaining Sylvania is not a "bad boy" - bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But thanks for the kind offer!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny, mine are labeled BOTH 6SN7GT and VT231. The key I think is JAN Grey Glass. Regardless, it's really terrific sounding, and SUPER quiet, with great dynamics..

 And no, my lone remaining Sylvania is not a "bad boy" - bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But thanks for the kind offer!_

 


 No problem. I'm still getting used to my brown-base GE. And I LOVE the airyness, soundstage and lushness. It's a step above any tube I've heard in these departments. It's not the most detailed, or best tube for bass, but man the soundstange get's REALLLLLLY wide on some songs/albulms. 


 I'll PM you with more information if the tube is worthy of sending to you. 





 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So, what are these?

NOS TUBES PR RCA 1950's 6SN7 6SN7GT grey glass NIB - (eBay item 220184559842 end time Dec-21-07 16:53:23 PST)

 Too ugly, unless they sound like gold.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, what are these?

NOS TUBES PR RCA 1950's 6SN7 6SN7GT grey glass NIB - (eBay item 220184559842 end time Dec-21-07 16:53:23 PST)

 Too ugly, unless they sound like gold._

 


 Those are RCA 6SN7GT smoked glass tubes. It is VERY likely these came off the same production line as the RCA VT-231 smoked glass, which sell for a little more. 


 And since when were tubes produced to win a beauty contest? We're talking music here, not beauty. I could care less what they look like, as long as they sound good. And these tubes sound very good. 






 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm giving up on the "radiator" 6SN7GT because of the hum - it sounds great above the hum, but I am too impatient to run it for 100 hours to see if the hum goes away. 

 Unfortunately, I am getting hum (although a lesser amount) with the Raytheon 6SN7GT I got from Skylab too. But, I'll run that one for a day too, and see what happens...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm giving up on the "radiator" 6SN7GT because of the hum - it sounds great above the hum, but I am too impatient to run it for 100 hours to see if the hum goes away. 

 Unfortunately, I am getting hum (although a lesser amount) with the Raytheon 6SN7GT I got from Skylab too. But, I'll run that one for a day too, and see what happens..._

 



 It will go away, likely quicker than that. I had a hum in one of my tubes, that took almost 100 hours to completely get rid of. This is not common, and usually even after 12 hours, it's significantly better than it started. Usually after 24 hours the "noise" is gone. 


 Please don't give up. You don't know if any tube is going to hum, so the best thing to do is strap on the patience cap and wait it out. It will be worth it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

PS: I still have a pair of CBS Hytron 6SN7GT to try (one says Traveler on it but is the same as the one that says CBS Hytron on it.) I also have a JAN CRC RCA 6SN7GT I am saving for later. The CBS 6SN7GT I have is closer to SS, as is my TungSol re-issue.

 So, my every day tube for the past month has been the Hytron Brown-base 5692 that was $49 used (NOS are almost $100, like the VT231, and they sound the same as a red-base). Since I pulled out the Raytheon 6080 as the rear tube, I have had an RCA JAN CRC 6AS7GT black plate in the rear most of the time (I have a regular RCA black plate that sounds the same, haven't tried the grey plate)..

 The Raytheon 6SN7GT from Skylab is in the 336i right now and sounds very good, with just a small bit of hum on the left. It has the same increased bass impact of the "radiator" 6SN7GT > the 5692, with the ability to bring the vocals forward like the 5692, even with Darth Beyers. I am not sure the sound stage is as wide as the 5692.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The hum in the Raytheon 6SN7GT is almost totally gone already. 

 It was actually a buzz in the left ear on top of a mild hum. The left ear buzz is totally gone. The hum is so quiet it is not close to as loud as my right ear chronic tinnitus, and can't be heard above listening to my TV quietly.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The hum in the Raytheon 6SN7GT is almost totally gone already. 

 It was actually a buzz in the left ear on top of a mild hum. The left ear buzz is totally gone. The hum is so quiet it is not close to as loud as my right ear chronic tinnitus, and can't be heard above listening to my TV quietly._

 



 Glad to hear it's working out. Time will usually fix everything... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

I have a query for other users about a seldom mentioned tube. The Mouse Ear. For several days I have put more hours on one that I had set aside after a short burn-in and audition. I had used Mouse ears in the past with Stereo Power amps with enjoyment but in the DV they were not as I had remembered. Both are old NOS and after hum relief one was put back in the sacred case and the other listened to with the RCA Black in the rear for a bit and then forgotten. I have just discovered the stage getting much, much wider and the bottom becoming more detailed after what I guess is about 200 hours. (I need to take notes more often) Anyone else had any longer experience with this tube?

 Edit for detail: These are the clear glass black plate


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a query for other users about a seldom mentioned tube. The Mouse Ear. For several days I have put more hours on one that I had set aside after a short burn-in and audition. I had used Mouse ears in the past with Stereo Power amps with enjoyment but in the DV they were not as I had remembered. Both are old NOS and after hum relief one was put back in the sacred case and the other listened to with the RCA Black in the rear for a bit and then forgotten. I have just discovered the stage getting much, much wider and the bottom becoming more detailed after what I guess is about 200 hours. (I need to take notes more often) Anyone else had any longer experience with this tube?

 Edit for detail: These are the clear glass black plate_

 

I don't have a longer experience with that tube, but I do have 2 used tubes I bought. One is labeled Emerson, and the other Motorola, identical construction. When I did blind testing several months ago I found:
 -----------------------------------
 Tube 4: (Emerson 6sn7gt Grey T-plates, circular mica supports at top actually a rebranded Tung-Sol Mouse Ear)
 Very mild hum
 Decent impact
 Something not right, soundstage somewhat limited. Some songs seem to lack detail, others are fine.
 A pretty good tube. Quite good on some songs.
 A little harsh and fatiguing.

 Tube 10: (Motorola 6sn7GT, made in USA, Grey prallel plates, circular mica supports, actually a rebranded TungSol Mouse Ear).
 No hum
 Good impact
 Good soundstage
 Good detail.
 Very nice.
 Good female vocals
 Nice balance.
 Musical
 Great sound, developed a hum in left side.
 ---------------------------------------------------

 Perhaps I should try and burn in the Emerson to see if it get's any better.


----------



## Skylab

Larry, I knew that Raytheon tube would quiet down. It was totally silent in my 336i when I had it. Mine did have the Fitz hum mod, but I knew that was a good tube since not only did I test it with a tube tester, I also actually listened to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm still all smiles on the RCA grey (smoked) glass JAN-CRC VT231. Best 6SN7 variant I have heard. I like it better than the (excellent) CBS 5692.


----------



## Gollie

Skylab's comments have a direct influence on the eBay tube market.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab's comments have a direct influence on the eBay tube market._

 


 Well, it IS known that the smoked glass RCA's are fabulous tubes. 

 It's not like these tubes are a secret by any means. People have been paying premium prices for these tubes for some time.






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab's comments have a direct influence on the eBay tube market._

 

SURELY you are joking. If you were not, then I respectfully but completely disagree. The global market for tubes DWARFS the tiny part that has to do with their use in headphone amps, and even that tiny fraction I only have a small influence on.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Rob,

 The JAN-CRC VT231 is still best in my system, as well. I can't wait for my CBS 5692 to arrive. Nor can I wait for the 5998 either... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Chris

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still all smiles on the RCA grey (smoked) glass JAN-CRC VT231. Best 6SN7 variant I have heard. I like it better than the (excellent) CBS 5692._


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have a longer experience with that tube, but I do have 2 used tubes I bought. One is labeled Emerson, and the other Motorola, identical construction. When I did blind testing several months ago I found:
 -----------------------------------
 Tube 4: (Emerson 6sn7gt Grey T-plates, circular mica supports at top actually a rebranded Tung-Sol Mouse Ear)
 Very mild hum
 Decent impact
 Something not right, soundstage somewhat limited. Some songs seem to lack detail, others are fine.
 A pretty good tube. Quite good on some songs.
 A little harsh and fatiguing.

 Tube 10: (Motorola 6sn7GT, made in USA, Grey prallel plates, circular mica supports, actually a rebranded TungSol Mouse Ear).
 No hum
 Good impact
 Good soundstage
 Good detail.
 Very nice.
 Good female vocals
 Nice balance.
 Musical
 Great sound, developed a hum in left side.
 ---------------------------------------------------

 Perhaps I should try and burn in the Emerson to see if it get's any better._

 

Thanks, Your comments on tube #10 is where this tube is settling down to. Oddly it did start out as a cousin to your #4. I dug out the 2nd tube I had not given any real audition too. I just broke it in on a new amp as I was burning in the caps then stashed it. It is also a black plate with no sign of gettering at the base of the glass, completely clear also. It is fine, and as is the one that caught my attention, the soundstage is extremely wide with great detail and bass impact. Female vocals with both tubes want you to reach out and grab them. (the singers, not the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

 I now have noticed a slight Hum in one channel with the Senns that is inaudible with the 501's. That is going to be a shame if it doesn't go away. And it should have by now. Long ago in fact. I have 2 homebrew amps with 6SN7 fronts that have no hum issues, so not all is lost. This is a strangely cranky tube. Most every Tung Sol I have listened to has settled into it's final sound in around 40 hours or less. Very high on my list for what it does right. though.


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ <clip>
 I'm still all smiles on the RCA grey (smoked) glass JAN-CRC VT231. Best 6SN7 variant I have heard. I like it better than the (excellent) CBS 5692._

 

That's the same tube I keep coming back to, regardlass of what amp. That falls right next to the clear Sylvania black plate and the Hytron VT-231's. But the Sylvanias seem, for me at least, to be the most "cross platform" tube. They keep creeping to the top in any amp I listen to them in. The "cross platform" comments seems to hold for the 'chrome tops also. (a Sun 'Java' tube line? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) I might toss in, that though the 'chrome tops' are not a perfect tube, they do absolutely nothing that bothers me.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ though the 'chrome tops' are not a perfect tube, they do absolutely nothing that bothers me._

 

I have 29 of them! Mid- '50's Sylvania chrome dome "Good Ole Boys.'


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 29 of them! Mid- '50's Sylvania chrome dome "Good Ole Boys.'_

 

"Good Ole Boys" fits the 'Chrome Top' pretty well, Smooth like good Kentucky Whiskey, and warms ya' like slow cooked Grits and Red Eye gravy on a cool mornin'.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, I knew that Raytheon tube would quiet down. It was totally silent in my 336i when I had it. Mine did have the Fitz hum mod, but I knew that was a good tube since not only did I test it with a tube tester, I also actually listened to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still all smiles on the RCA grey (smoked) glass JAN-CRC VT231. Best 6SN7 variant I have heard. I like it better than the (excellent) CBS 5692._

 

I went to sleep with music, and woke up this AM the tube was 100% silent.

 I did go ahead and buy the eBay grey glass RCA 6SN7GT that should be from the same production line as the the VT-231 variant.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went to sleep with music, and woke up this AM the tube was 100% silent.

 I did go ahead and buy the eBay grey glass RCA 6SN7GT that should be from the same production line as the the VT-231 variant._

 


 SHOULD be, is the key word. 


 Since I don't know for sure why my 6SN7GT sounded different than the VT-231 varient, I will go out on a limb and say it was either produced eariler/later than when the VT-231's were produced. 

 The only way to know for sure, is to own both. I have, and that's why I'll assume my 6SN7GT wasn't made during the same time as my VT-231 version.






 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 29 of them! Mid- '50's Sylvania chrome dome "Good Ole Boys.'_

 

So are you passing some out to the bros, or what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 J/K

 Chris


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SHOULD be, is the key word. 


 Since I don't know for sure why my 6SN7GT sounded different than the VT-231 varient, I will go out on a limb and say it was either produced eariler/later than when the VT-231's were produced. 

 The only way to know for sure, is to own both. I have, and that's why I'll assume my 6SN7GT wasn't made during the same time as my VT-231 version.


 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just plan on comparing it to my other 6SN7GT (actually I got two in the deal).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Here is an extra plus about the Raytheon 6SN7GT from Skylab - the 125Hz midbass hump is tamed in the Darth Beyers, although the total level of bass is still too powerful. (Fortunately the Meier Headsix is perfect for the Darths).


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just plan on comparing it to my other 6SN7GT (actually I got two in the deal)._

 


 But you're missing the point.

 The point is to compare your smoked glass 6SN7GT, to a smoked glass VT-231. Not to the same tube included in that auction. Because it's the same tube.



 It's said, most smoked glass 6SN7GT's came off the same production line as the VT231 labeled tubes. However, in my case I do doubt they came off the same line, as they don't sound the same. The smoked glass 6SN7GT *sounded better to me, to my ears, with my music, in my system*. 





 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But you're missing the point.

 The point is to compare your smoked glass 6SN7GT, to a smoked glass VT-231. Not to the same tube included in that auction. Because it's the same tube.

 It's said, most smoked glass 6SN7GT's came off the same production line as the VT231 labeled tubes. However, in my case I do doubt they came off the same line, as they don't sound the same. The smoked glass 6SN7GT *sounded better to me, to my ears, with my music, in my system*. 

 -Nick_

 

No, No, No. You misunderstand. One of the hazards of posting from a PDA phone is one tries to keep the post short, and intent gets muddled as the post gets shorter. I didn't realize that what I typed implied that I was talking about comparing the other smoked grey glass, until you replied and I looked again. Whoops, I left out a lot of words and it came out looking completely different.

 I am only planning to compare it to ALL my other tubes, and ranking them relative to each other and to how I like the sound. So, my Raytheon 6SN7GT and 5692 are tied, the "radiator" tube is third if I can burn the hum out of it, etc... So, we'll see if the grey glass takes the #1 or some other spot, _relative to the tubes I have_, not vs VT231 or to the other grey glass.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So are you passing some out to the bros, or what? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 J/K

 Chris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The 1955 Sylvania "Good Ole Boys" are 6SN7GTA. I have a few others such as a Tung Sol, GE 6SN7GTB's and a 1950 6SN7G Sylvania tall bottle marked Philco. Feel free to send me a personal message and let me know if anything interests you.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, No, No. You misunderstand. One of the hazards of posting from a PDA phone is one tries to keep the post short, and intent gets muddled as the post gets shorter. I didn't realize that what I typed implied that I was talking about comparing the other smoked grey glass, until you replied and I looked again. Whoops, I left out a lot of words and it came out looking completely different.

 I am only planning to compare it to ALL my other tubes, and ranking them relative to each other and to how I like the sound. So, my Raytheon 6SN7GT and 5692 are tied, the "radiator" tube is third if I can burn the hum out of it, etc... So, we'll see if the grey glass takes the #1 or some other spot, relative to the tubes I have, not vs VT231 or to the other grey glass._

 



 It takes communication on both parts to to come to a understanding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand now.


----------



## nick20

Update... for those of you interested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I received my "Bad Boy" Sylvania tube today. Looks to be in mint condition, and according to the sellers testing results, test's VERY strong, very close to NOS. 


 Anyway's, this is the EXACT same tube as the trio sold last night on eBay for over $200. I have included some pictures as well. For those wondering what I _really_, got, I got the real deal. I listened shortly, because I am buring in some new AKG 240M, and just tried it to see if it works, so I can leave the seller feedback. I will give this tube a further listen in a few hours, for some critical listening.


 And onto the pictures.. (the other tube pictured is the "other" tube I won with the "Bad Boy". It's a "International Servicemaster" German made 6SN7GTB, and resembles the plate structure of the pre/post "Bad Boy" years.)


 (And yes, I am into high-dollar autograph cards [aka - another form of liquidity])







 (for some reason the flash didn't come out very well, and had to compensate for with "artifical" light)













 It's a very nice green label Sylvania "Bad Boy". It's date code is 25 week, of 1952. Pins look mint, base is tight, and tube looks good. 





 Thanks for looking..



 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Nick: You suck. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats and enjoy the sound of your new valve.

 Chris


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick: You suck. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congrats and enjoy the sound of your new valve.

 Chris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 It's too bad the trio last night sold for sooo much! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd hate to be the buyer of those.. I'll be on the lookout for my $8 "Bad Boy's".


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be on the lookout for my $8 "Bad Boy's". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Who's yer buddy?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Who's yer buddy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 My "Bad Boy"... we're buddies for life! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Hey, if I can get em cheap, I'm'a going to share em with you guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No sense in having 10 for no reason.. at least you guys will put them to good use. 





 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update... for those of you interested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I received my "Bad Boy" Sylvania tube today. Looks to be in mint condition, and according to the sellers testing results, test's VERY strong, very close to NOS. 

 Anyway's, this is the EXACT same tube as the trio sold last night on eBay for over $200. I have included some pictures as well. For those wondering what I really, got, I got the real deal. I listened shortly, because I am buring in some new AKG 240M, and just tried it to see if it works, so I can leave the seller feedback. I will give this tube a further listen in a few hours, for some critical listening.

 And onto the pictures.. (the other tube pictured is the "other" tube I won with the "Bad Boy". It's a "International Servicemaster" German made 6SN7GTB, and resembles the plate structure of the pre/post "Bad Boy" years.)

 (And yes, I am into high-dollar autograph cards [aka - another form of liquidity])

 <Img Snip>

 (for some reason the flash didn't come out very well, and had to compensate for with "artifical" light)

 <Img snip>

 It's a very nice green label Sylvania "Bad Boy". It's date code is 25 week, of 1952. Pins look mint, base is tight, and tube looks good. 

 Thanks for looking..
 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Dang Nick, I'm real sorry to see those are the 25th week, you know, the ones that sound real bad. Since it's Christmas and all I will open my heart and trade you EVEN for a BRAND NEW EH and 2 Blackgates for a 'Fitz Mod'. (Where is the 'Evil' icon when you need it?)

 Merry Christmas to yourself ! 
 And continued good hunting....


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dang Nick, I'm real sorry to see those are the 25th week, you know, the ones that sound real bad. Since it's Christmas and all I will open my heart and trade you EVEN for a BRAND NEW EH and 2 Blackgates for a 'Fitz Mod'. (Where is the 'Evil' icon when you need it?)

 Merry Christmas to yourself ! 
 And continued good hunting...._

 



 Yeah, me too. I wish they were week 1, or week 52. That makes them _real _special. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

So...ummm...Nick...how does is SOUND????


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So...ummm...Nick...how does is SOUND????_

 


 Well.. I'll give you my honest opinion. I'm not trying to "hype up" this tube, or any other tube, but to say the least I am absolutely stunned, and unfortunately had another "ear-gasm". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before I go on, I must tell you this:

*[size=x-small]This is in my system with my equipment, with my music, and to my ears.[/size]*


 Now that I have that out of the way, I would like to further comment on the 5998, first.



 I have read that the 5998 responds better to higher impedance phones. To me, I feel like my 600 Ohm's AKG's sound and scale better than my Goldring DR150's at 32 Ohm's. I received the AKG's from a trade, plus a decent chunk of cash, which I used to purchase two more MFSL CD's, but that's besides the point.

 This is my first time hearing any AKG product, and I like what I'm hearing. I traded my Goldring's for the AKG 240M's + $35. So I "paid" $60 for the AKG's. Anyway's, after about a hours listening, back and forth between the Goldring's and AKG's, I feel with this tube combination (5998 [herbies tube damper] + "Bad Boy" [herbies tube damper) pairs MUCH better with the AKG's than the Goldring's. Maybe because the AKG's are higher impedance, I'm not totally sure. 

 Furthermore this is how I would rate the two headphones with this tube combination (see above).


 AKG 7/10
 Goldring's 8/10


 Neither are perfect, but I have yet to pay for a headphone costing more than $80. So far, all the headphones I've had, scale and sound better with the 336i. But for $60 (what original owner was asking) these are a STEAL. 

 I feel the AKG's are much better with drums, and stringed instruments (the most important sounds to me) and are slightly better with female vocals. The bass isn't bad either. HOWEVER, I have not, and won't likely try any other combination with this these headphones for a while. I am truly in audio-heaven.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Enough about the headphones, and let me finish talking about the tube.


 I personally feel these are the "real deal". I'm not sure about classifying them as "world class" anything, because I haven't even begun to venture into better headphones, but even with budget headphones, these tubes are fabulous! And since I have a some-what limited experience with tubes, I've owned and listened to about 20 tubes. About half are "premium" quality if you will, so that's really about 10 good quality tubes. IMO, and solely that, these better everything I've tried. These top the smoked glass RCA's, other Sylvania's, my brown base GE, and a few others. I believe these are, or are very close to the "cream of the crop" (aka elite).

 This tube excels in these areas (to me and my equipment):

 Detail/Clarity
 Speed/Dynamics
 Highs/treble/Sparkle
 and a little touch to the bass (tighter and deeper). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I cannot point out anything negative. It either has changed for the better (most everything), or remained the same (mids, soundstange). 

 Sooo... since I do not have "good enough" or better quality headphones, I cannot do this tube justice, sonically, really. So, they will be passed around to two people. Rob, and Mike. I feel these two members posses lots of knowledge of tubes, and extensive experience using them, and listening to them. And I would expect them to add their honest opinion of this tube, to this thread. I will PM you two after this writing.




 Thanks for reading... Now, any questions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Very cool, Nick! I'm glad you are digging it.

 It will be interesting to hear this tube. For the time being, I have stopped my 6SN7 search - I am very happy with the JAN-CRC smoked-glass RCA VT-231. But I suppose after hearing the "Bad Boy" I might change my mind, you never know


----------



## SoFlaChris

If all goes well... I'll have a new source to go with my new tubes. A Shanling PCD3000A.

 What would you guys recommend for an interconnect cable that won't cripple my wallet?

 Sorry for O/T... Just had to share with my tubehead bros.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If all goes well... I'll have a new source to go with my new tubes. A Shanling PCD3000A.

 What would you guys recommend for an interconnect cable that won't cripple my wallet?

 Sorry for O/T... Just had to share with my tubehead bros._

 



 How much is too much? I paid $40 for my pure silver IC... 


 Joe (Jo6pack) also owns one per my recommendation. There's a few users here with this cable.. very nice for the money..



 EDIT: BTW, here's the link. I forgot it. You need two (stereo) for $34.95, plus shipping, it's around $40.

Pure silver audio video cables at TweekGeek.com


----------



## Negatron

I'm going to kick in as 'Odd Man Out' as usual. I do NOT like silver as an IC, especially with a digital source. I have used small lengths for many years to tune amps during voicing. I have also used it with success in moderation to compliment the midrange bloom of AuriCaps, a cap I very much like. But silver is too hot up top for MY tastes. I find it additive, not neutral. But I'm in a minority. The stuff reminds me of re-mastered CD's- hot on top.

 It is not possible to remove all the oxygen from the process and Silver oxidizes fast and the signal travels on the surface. That is in my opinion the 'detail' people rave about.

 With tube gear I much prefer Mogami Nyglex 2534 with Cardas or even Neutric Jacks. And I need to qualify that with saying the soldering is critical and a quality Eutectic solder is necessary with proper technique as it is applied. Same with any IC for that matter. Just my $0.02 worth. Heck someone should toss in at least one dissenting vote.


----------



## nick20

Mike, I am hoping to get some good copper (6N, 7N) IC's down the line, but for $40, it's not a bad product. I wouldn't pay any more for it, as I would prefer copper, but in this price range, there wasn't much.







 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mike, I am hoping to get some good copper (6N, 7N) IC's down the line, but for $40, it's not a bad product. I wouldn't pay any more for it, as I would prefer copper, but in this price range, there wasn't much.

 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll knock you together a pair with mid-grade jacks after the holidays to give you a taste, let me know the length to your source. (If you say 20Ft it's gonna' take a long time) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've had favorites come and then go over time but the 2534's keep sticking around and getting replenished.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the input. I too, like copper over silver.

 CDP will be here on Monday.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll knock you together a pair with mid-grade jacks after the holidays to give you a taste, let me know the length to your source. (If you say 20Ft it's gonna' take a long time) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've had favorites come and then go over time but the 2534's keep sticking around and getting replenished._

 



 Gee thanks Mike! Man, we are a bunch in the spirit this year! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 A .5M pair, or anything around 1 foot is all I need. The 1.0M I have is way too long. 


 BTW, for those other members out there, dieing to try this "Bad Boy" tube, but can't really afford the "going rate", I will see how this "trade off" goes, and will likely offer it to two more members after it returns back to me. And maybe we can get a list going, and I'll just purchase another "Bad Boy" for myself, while you guys can get a taste of one of the best tubes made. 






 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS If anyone need's or knows someone who would like an excellent digital camera, please PM me. The sale is to upgrade my headphones, I so desperately need.


----------



## Skylab

FWIW, I also avoid silver interconnects. I prefer high-purity copper.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I was a "copper only" person till I heard my first APureSound cable on HD600, which is a silver cable with copper core. Prior to that, I was using a Black Dragon copper cable which is now on my HD25-1. Since then I have gotten APS V3 cable installed on my RS-2 as well, with noticable improvement, and my Denon D2000 have the APS V2 cable and sound EVERY bit as good as the D5000 IMHO. 

 My ALO Jumbo Cryo Silver X LOD is a copper silver mix, and so is my "barqy" mini to RCA interconnect from my DAC to DarkVoice 336i. These also do not lack in warmth and punch and are similar to the APS cables but not.

 I have a barqy silver silk insulated LOD and interconnect, with NO copper, that IS brighter than it is warm, but either one works great to tone down the Darth Beyers into sounding fantastic instead of boomy. This means I don't have to always change a tube just for the Darths, but can change the source or interconnect to suit them.


----------



## SoFlaChris

I scored a pair of Audioquest Copperheads in .5m. Thanks for everyone's input.

 Now back to our regularly scheduled tube thread...


----------



## davve

Darkvoice amp but from some posts it seems to have
 very low voltage gain from a 6AS7 in OTL circuit. This may be an
 issue with any standard source, because the HD650 requires about
 3 or 4 volts RMS for peak power.


 i have read that, is that true? is the orginal tube 6N5PJ?


----------



## SoFlaChris

Dayve... Not sure if I can help you with the first part of your question, but the original preamp tube that came with *my* 336 from China was a 6N8P. That's just another 6SN7 variant. The power tube, from the factory, was a 71P. That's just a 6AS7 variant.

 Sorry if this isn't what what you were seeking


----------



## nick20

Wooohoo! I scored a brand new pair of AKG 701's for $230.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, I can even FURTHER appreciate my tube setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Merry X-Mas & happy Holidays fella's! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Did anyone receive any "new" tubes recently, for the "holiday". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I recently received a "Akrad" brown base 6SN7WGT, which turns out to be a rebranded Tung-sol 6SN7WGT. 


 Cool sounding tube.. very well made, and sounds pretty damn good. IMO, not on par with my "Bad Boy" I have, but for the price, I won't argue. Probably the 3rd best tube I've heard to date, behind the smoked glass 6SN7GT/VT-231. 





 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Hey Nick, glad that's a good sounding tube! Not too surprised, but glad to hear it!


----------



## SoFlaChris

Got 2 NOS tubes on Christmas Eve; CBS JAN 5692 and a Tung Sol 5998.

 All that I can say is that I have a new amp. Bass is wildly tight, way open soundstage, highs are crystalline. I put on Rush Hemispheres as my first listen. Hearing the pop of the drum skins was amazing.

 The 5998 had a fair amount of hum to it and has reduced significantly after some 15 hours of burn. I suspect that this one is going to take some time. Listening to Donald Fagen, The Nightfly, right now. Still some right channel hum.

 Also adding to the circuit is a new Shanling PCD 3000A CDP and a pair of Audioquest Copperhead ICs.

 At some point, I'm going to go back to my original source to see how much better the Shanling made the system as I made one wholesale swap of tubes, cables, and source.

 Happy Holidays!

 Chris


----------



## SoFlaChris

We should call this the "Tube Head" forum.


----------



## nick20

Chris, was the 5998 a night/day difference? And/or was it worth the price you paid?

 Or are Rob and I's ears more sensitive than others?


----------



## SoFlaChris

Day and night. Totally different and improved.

 Yes, it was worth the price paid for the gains delivered.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Day and night. Totally different and improved.

 Yes, it was worth the price paid for the gains delivered._

 



 Hmm.. glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Now imagine this with a Sylvania 6SN7 VT-231 or Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boy".. Oh Boy!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Chris, I sent you a new PM.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Very cool


----------



## Jo6Pak

If I were to try these, one at a time, which one should I get first? The 5998 or 5692? Also, does the 5692 necessarily HAVE to be a red base? How good are the brown ones? THANKS!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to try these, one at a time, which one should I get first? The 5998 or 5692? Also, does the 5692 necessarily HAVE to be a red base? How good are the brown ones? THANKS!_

 


 Hands down, the 5998. For those people who say "upgrade the 6SN7, because it's the most noticeable improvement", obviously haven't heard a 5998. 

 If you can't notice a significant difference when swapping out the 6AS7 for the 5998, it's not the tubes fault. 



 In regards to the second question, it all depends on the tube. The most commonly used 5692's are the red-base RCA and brown base CBS. 




 The 5692 is supposedly very similar to it's 6SN7 counterpart, just better built for industrial use, and is rated for 10,000 hours. However then there's this problem..


_5692 - 275 Volts maximum & maximum 1.75 Watts per section
 6SN7GT/WGT -- 300 Volts maximum & maximum 3.5 Watts per section
 6SN7GTA/GTB - 450 Volts maximum & maximum 5.0 Watts per section 


 Where, using the general audio application of 250 plate volts, a bias of 8 volts results in 9ma of current and a plate dissipation of 2.25 Watts, we find: 

 5692 - runs 43 % over maximum rating – It isn’t a 10,000 hour tube when you run it this HOT!
 6SN7GT - runs 64% of maximum – coasting and liking it
 6SN7GTA/GTB - runs 45% of maximum – Hardly turned on, may outlast you._




 Hope this helps..



 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

_5692 - 275 Volts maximum & maximum 1.75 Watts per section
 6SN7GT/WGT -- 300 Volts maximum & maximum 3.5 Watts per section
 6SN7GTA/GTB - 450 Volts maximum & maximum 5.0 Watts per section

 Where, using the general audio application of 250 plate volts, a bias of 8 volts results in 9ma of current and a plate dissipation of 2.25 Watts, we find:

 5692 - runs 43 % over maximum rating – It isn’t a 10,000 hour tube when you run it this HOT!
 6SN7GT - runs 64% of maximum – coasting and liking it
 6SN7GTA/GTB - runs 45% of maximum – Hardly turned on, may outlast you._

 Thanks Nick - I remember reading that elsewhere and was somewhat concerned about it, but no one here seems to be. Per your advice, I will start with the 5998 first and then proceed from there...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5692 - 275 Volts maximum & maximum 1.75 Watts per section
 6SN7GT/WGT -- 300 Volts maximum & maximum 3.5 Watts per section
 6SN7GTA/GTB - 450 Volts maximum & maximum 5.0 Watts per section

 Where, using the general audio application of 250 plate volts, a bias of 8 volts results in 9ma of current and a plate dissipation of 2.25 Watts, we find:

 5692 - runs 43 % over maximum rating – It isn’t a 10,000 hour tube when you run it this HOT!
 6SN7GT - runs 64% of maximum – coasting and liking it
 6SN7GTA/GTB - runs 45% of maximum – Hardly turned on, may outlast you.

 Thanks Nick - I remember reading that elsewhere and was somewhat concerned about it, but no one here seems to be. Per your advice, I will start with the 5998 first and then proceed from there..._

 



 Yeah, there's quite some talk about the longevity of the 5692's.. I don't know how true this is, or isn't, but I wouldn't expect any tube to last 10,000 hours..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm.. glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Now imagine this with a Sylvania 6SN7 VT-231 or Sylvania 6SN7GT "Bad Boy".. Oh Boy!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Chris, I sent you a new PM._

 

My Sylvania 6SN7 VT-231 just arrived today, but I haven't had a chance to listen to it - right after I opened the box I had to take my 10yr old to the hospital for 6 stitches in his left hand - he decided to use his new cub scout knife to open the plastic box for some new sony ear-clip-on headphones (similar to Koss ksc-75).

 I threatened to make him turn in his earned scout badge for knife safety that he earned last year, then I realized he was willing to lose a finger to listen to new headphones, and I had to pat him on the back instead...


----------



## SoFlaChris

Hope that the little fella heals real soon.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I put on Rush Hemispheres as my first listen. Hearing the pop of the drum skins was amazing._

 

Yes! I'm so glad I'm not the only Rush fan here!! Enjoy!


----------



## SoFlaChris

Right on! I think that you may have a few in this thread.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Penchum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes! I'm so glad I'm not the only Rush fan here!! Enjoy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 MmMm.. Rush on MFSL


----------



## SoFlaChris

Can't wait for the hum to go away on the new tubes. Looking at approximately 20 hours of music, white & pink noise, and freq runs so far. The loudness of the hum has subsided, but it's still there.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't wait for the hum to go away on the new tubes. Looking at approximately 20 hours of music, white & pink noise, and freq runs so far. The loudness of the hum has subsided, but it's still there._

 


 It should go away.. hopefully another 24 hours and you'll be good.


----------



## SoFlaChris

It's funny, as I have provided that advice to others... Waiting for your _own_ stuff to burn-in *bites*.


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right on! I think that you may have a few in this thread._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MmMm.. Rush on MFSL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd settle for new sealed English cuts if they could be found!! I used to play the drums and have a real love for ultra dynamic music like Rush. Neal Peart is perhaps the best drummer (overall) still living.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's funny, as I have provided that advice to others... Waiting for your own stuff to burn-in *bites*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 It happens...


----------



## rivieraranch

What are the differences between the various Sylvania 6SN7; the pre-1952staggered plate, the 1951-1953 Bad Boy and Good Ole Boy (chrome top short bottle post 1952)?

 I scored a pair of staggered plates so I wanted to hear if their sound was in debate. They use copper rods and are a tall bottle style. One is a Sylvania branded J Meck from the 52nd week of 1951 and the other is a green print Sylvania from the 26th week of 1951. 

 I have not tried either of these staggered plates or any of the Good Ole Boys in my Darkvoice. I have the RCA smoked glass VT-231 in there and it sounds fine. I just want to know, in the opinions of others, if it is worth bothering with. 

 I am using a JAN Sylvania 6080 in the rear position. I tried an RCA 6AS7 coke bottle in that position but these rattle when you shake them. This does not inspire confidence.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are the differences between the various Sylvania 6SN7; the pre-1952staggered plate, the 1951-1953 Bad Boy and Good Ole Boy (chrome top short bottle post 1952)?

 I scored a pair of staggered plates so I wanted to hear if their sound was in debate. They use copper rods and are a tall bottle style. One is a Sylvania branded J Meck from the 52nd week of 1951 and the other is a green print Sylvania from the 26th week of 1951. 

 I have not tried either of these staggered plates or any of the Good Ole Boys in my Darkvoice. I have the RCA smoked glass VT-231 in there and it sounds fine. I just want to know, in the opinions of others, if it is worth bothering with. 

 I am using a JAN Sylvania 6080 in the rear position. I tried an RCA 6AS7 coke bottle in that position but these rattle when you shake them. This does not inspire confidence._

 


 What Slyvania model is it? Is it a GT, GTA, or GTB? The difference between the chrome top and "Bay Body" is significant. 


 It's worth bothering if you want to try all the different tubes out there. 


 In regards to the RCA 6AS7, you should be fine. I own a few tubes that rattle, and perform flawlessly. You should be aware of cracked bases though. 







 -Nick


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What Slyvania model is it? Is it a GT, GTA, or GTB? The difference between the chrome top and "Bay Body" is significant. 


 It's worth bothering if you want to try all the different tubes out there. 


 In regards to the RCA 6AS7, you should be fine. I own a few tubes that rattle, and perform flawlessly. You should be aware of cracked bases though. 







 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have all 3 Sylvania versions, GT, GTA and GTB, but no Bad Boy yet.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have all 3 Sylvania versions, GT, GTA and GTB, but no Bad Boy yet._

 


 So why don't you tell us the difference.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So why don't you tell us the difference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Because I have not plugged any of them in yet. I am not as good at comparing tubes as some others here are. Furthermore, I am willing to accept the judgment of somebody else who has more critical skill at tube comparisions.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because I have not plugged any of them in yet. I am not as good at comparing tubes as some others here are. Furthermore, I am willing to accept the judgment of somebody else who has more critical skill at tube comparisions._

 


 IMO, and just that, I would take everything you read about tubes with an ultra-fine grain of salt. 

 The ONLY way to know for yourself, is to try them out first hand.



 Things vary such as:

 "the" system; IC's, PC's, recable, CD/SACD/DVD-A, vinyl, headphones, listening experience, ear drum sensitivity, etc. etc.

 I could go on and on, and this is why you should not and can not take what you read on the Internet as "the final word". That needs to be found out first hand. The Internet only provides "leads" to good tubes. It's ultimately up to you, your system, your music and most importantly, YOUR ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Maybe this helps..


 Also, can you notice any audible difference between the GT, GTA and GTB tubes? 






 -Nick


----------



## rivieraranch

Ebay seller gsbrva has listed a large number of 6SN7 tubes all in multiple, numbered tube lots. This includes RCA smoked glass 6SN7's and VT-231's, Sylvania Bad Boys, Good Ole Boys, Ken Rad VT-231's, National Union smoked glass 6SN7's, Sylvania 6SN7WGT's. He has 100% positive feedback with nearly 500 transactions. Has anybody who posts here bought from him before?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ebay seller gsbrva has listed a large number of 6SN7 tubes all in multiple, numbered tube lots. This includes RCA smoked glass 6SN7's and VT-231's, Sylvania Bad Boys, Good Ole Boys, Ken Rad VT-231's, National Union smoked glass 6SN7's, Sylvania 6SN7WGT's. He has 100% positive feedback with nearly 500 transactions. Has anybody who posts here bought from him before?_

 


 I haven't, but I bet you're in good hands with him.


----------



## jona.p

Hello,

 Could someone please tell me what the front and rear tubes are for? eg imbalance in channels etc, would that be likely the rear or the front?

 I read somewhere that the back tube would be the power tube, and alot of issues not affected by the volume controle seem to come from there. is this correct?

 Right now Im looking for a replacement for the rear tube, I had some issues at first I thought it was the front tube, but after changing that I still had some/same issues (Cracks).

 Any recommendations for the rear tube?


----------



## Skylab

If what you want is the most RELIABLE tube, get a JAN-WC 6080. These can be ordered on tubedepot.com for $10.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jona.p* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 Could someone please tell me what the front and rear tubes are for? eg imbalance in channels etc, would that be likely the rear or the front?

 I read somewhere that the back tube would be the power tube, and alot of issues not affected by the volume controle seem to come from there. is this correct?

 Right now Im looking for a replacement for the rear tube, I had some issues at first I thought it was the front tube, but after changing that I still had some/same issues (Cracks).

 Any recommendations for the rear tube?_

 

I sent you a personal message on your post.


----------



## SoFlaChris

I just Fitz-modded my DV. Took me 10 minutes and hum-be-gone.

 Niiiiice.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just Fitz-modded my DV. Took me 10 minutes and hum-be-gone.

 Niiiiice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When did yours start humming? Mine doesn't hum. Is changing all these tubes causing the hum?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did yours start humming? Mine doesn't hum. Is changing all these tubes causing the hum?_

 


 My theory on this..



 NOS and tubes that haven't been used for MANY years, usually have some sort of "noise" when you first turn them on. (on new 336i's)

 I also believe that the more "burn-in" your components in the 336i get, the less likely the chance of any "noise". 



 For instance, I've probably swapped different tubes in my amp numerous times, and not once did one of them have any "noise". I had "noise" in some tubes at the beginning, but now, my amp has about 1,000+ hours, and I've yet to encounter the problem. I've had everything from NOS, to tubes not used in 20 years, to used tubes, and everything in between. 

 It's been about 4 months since I last came across a tube with some irregular "noise". So I am starting to wonder if all the burn-in on my amp has something to do with me not hearing the "noise" anymore. 





 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Tube rolling won't cause anything to hum. If your's is quiet, be happy and let it be.

 Some tubes will hum in my unit and some are dead quiet. The current pair that I'm running had considerable hum, and burn-in time, pink noise, white noise, and freq runs weren't doing the normal trick of eradicating it. I'd be damned if my favorite combo wasn't going to be quiet, so out came the soldering iron.

 Now the SOB is dead quiet with no deficit to the quality.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube rolling won't cause anything to hum. If your's is quiet, be happy and let it be.

 Some tubes will hum in my unit and some are dead quiet. The current pair that I'm running had considerable hum, and burn-in time, pink noise, white noise, and freq runs weren't doing the normal trick of eradicating it. I'd be damned if my favorite combo wasn't going to be quiet, so out came the soldering iron.

 Now the SOB is dead quiet with no deficit to the quality._

 

I am happy with mine, I'll admit. However, as to the Decware MLB, one of Steve's articles suggested that swapping a lot of tubes in that could cause it to develop hum. Hmmmmm.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My theory on this..

 NOS and tubes that haven't been used for MANY years, usually have some sort of "noise" when you first turn them on. (on new 336i's)

 I also believe that the more "burn-in" your components in the 336i get, the less likely the chance of any "noise". _

 

To some extent, I believe this to be true. Everything audio-related, IMO, always sounds better with some time on it. In this case, by putting some caps across the cathodes of the preamp tube, you essentially filter any AC that's coming across.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd be damned if my favorite combo wasn't going to be quiet, so out came the soldering iron.

 Now the SOB is dead quiet with no deficit to the quality._

 

Heheh, that was the _exact_ same reason why I modded mine in the first place. Glad it worked out for ya.


----------



## jona.p

Hey,

 Stores are open again tomorrow so ill go into town and see if I can grab a 6080 WC tube somewhere for the rear, if not ill fall back on the internet stores/headfi people;p.

 *edit
 Seems all audio stores I can go to are closed on monday ;(.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heheh, that was the exact same reason why I modded mine in the first place. Glad it worked out for ya. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks again, bud. I split the difference between 100 and 300 and went with 220uF. Put an o-scope on the leads before and after and saw the 60 cycles take a hike!


----------



## Jo6Pak

Chris-

 Can you possibly post some pics of the mod, or at least explain in detail exactly where to place those caps? Also, did you use electrolytic/paper/foil type and what is the voltage rating on them (caps). 

 THANKS!


----------



## SoFlaChris

Info PM'd


----------



## Jo6Pak

Thank you...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Info PM'd_

 

OK. I got the necessary caps to do the 'Fitz Mod'. $3.00 out the door from Radio Shack. 

 Think I might also order a 5998. Nick has made me very curious about those...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Hey Nick-

 I just went back and looked at the pics of your bad boy to compare them with my Sylvania 6SN7GTB. Mine looks like a cross between the two you illustrated. Whereas the two shown in your post have 3+3 holes and 2+2 holes. Mine has 3+2 holes (3 left, 2 right). It doesn't appear to be a bad boy or a good boy. Perhaps its a Good 'Ol Boy. Do you know anything about this particular tube? Oh yeh, it has a chrome top, but only over the dome. The chrome doesn't extend down the sides like some I have seen. THANKS!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Nick-

 I just went back and looked at the pics of your bad boy to compare them with my Sylvania 6SN7GTB. Mine looks like a cross between the two you illustrated. Whereas the two shown in your post have 3+3 holes and 2+2 holes. Mine has 3+2 holes (3 left, 2 right). It doesn't appear to be a bad boy or a good boy. Perhaps its a Good 'Ol Boy. Do you know anything about this particular tube? Oh yeh, it has a chrome top, but only over the dome. The chrome doesn't extend down the sides like some I have seen. THANKS!_

 

Is it a "chrome dome" 






 or "chrome top"








 Also, if you can, include a picture of your plates.



 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Think I might also order a 5998. Nick has made me very curious about those..._

 


 It's the best place to start in "high-end" tubes. If you can't hear a night/day difference between the 5998 and any 6AS7/6080, then you probably shouldn't spend any more money on "premium tubes".


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK. I got the necessary caps to do the 'Fitz Mod'. $3.00 out the door from Radio Shack. 

 Think I might also order a 5998. Nick has made me very curious about those..._

 

Good deal. Let me know how it goes. I have a Tung Sol JAN 5998. Sounds sweet.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can't hear a night/day difference between the 5998 and any 6AS7/6080, then you probably shouldn't spend any more money on "premium tubes"._

 

Exactly why I want one...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it a "chrome dome" 







 or "chrome top"








 Also, if you can, include a picture of your plates.



 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It looks more like the second picture, in that the plate hole config is 3+2. However, the chrome on mine is only on the dome. It does not extend down onto the tube sides at all...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks more like the second picture, in that the plate hole config is 3+2. However, the chrome on mine is only on the dome. It does not extend down onto the tube sides at all..._

 


 Like this..?


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like this..?




_

 

Thats it!


----------



## nick20

Joe, I owned one, the same as what you've got, and it was a real good tube for the money. There's better, but these are solid "entry level" tubes for sure.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Nick-

 How do you think it would pair up with a 5998? It is currently in use with an RCA 6AS7 with acceptable results.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good deal. Let me know how it goes._

 

Chris-

 The tubes I have in there now are dead quiet, so probably won't do the mod until it becomes necessary. Thanks for helping me get it all sorted out. Looks like a piece-o-cake...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick-

 How do you think it would pair up with a 5998? It is currently in use with an RCA 6AS7 with acceptable results._

 


 I was using "normal" tubes with my 5998. I wasn't using anything premium, and the sound was immediately changed for the better. Paired with "premium" tubes, the sound get's better and better.

 The 5998 can be paired with anything, I guess. Since the 5998/Bendix 6080 are the "best of the best" for the rear tube, there's not a lot of rear tube movement. I leave my 5998 in, and swap the front's.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was using "normal" tubes with my 5998. I wasn't using anything premium, and the sound was immediately changed for the better. Paired with "premium" tubes, the sound get's better and better._

 

What 'premium' tube would you recommend to park up front? I've been looking at the red base RCAs, but they are not cheap, by any means. Anything else out there of a 'premium' nature that I should be on the lookout for?

 THANKS!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What 'premium' tube would you recommend to park up front? I've been looking at the red base RCAs, but they are not cheap, by any means. Anything else out there of a 'premium' nature that I should be on the lookout for?

 THANKS!_

 


 Joe, this is the list I have stapled. I will be slowly, one at a time, buying each one and marking them off, until I have all ten. This fella Len, who wrote this is an extremely respectable "tube guru". 


 And his list:

_Disclaimer: This is not a top ten list. There are many other excellent performers that missed the cut for various reasons. You may very well prefer a 6SN7 that is not on this list. And of course, this is all just my personal opinion. My goal is to provide a list of 6SN7 recommendations that provide excellent sonics but sound significantly different. Tubes are listed in alphabetical order (not by ranking). 

 Brimar 6SN7GT/6SN7GTY: Lush. This is arguably the warmest, most "round" sounding 6SN7 produced. While in some systems, it may sound slow and bloated, in other systems, it sounds lush and wonderfully bloomy. 

 Ken Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231: Bass champs. The treble may not be the most refined, but both the clear and black glass versions provide world-class bass performance married with a sweet and seductive midrange. 

 Hytron 6SN7GT: Neutral and fast. Need speed and clarity? Hytrons are very hard to top. This is definitely my personal tube of choice for detail and neutrality. I liken Hytrons to crystal clear streams. 

 National Union gray glass 6SN7GT: Liquid and mellow. This tube is perfect to tame harsh systems or if you are looking for more open ambience from your 6SN7. NU GG is like floating on cloud nine. 

 Raytheon 6SN7GT/VT-231 type II flat plates: Sweet PRAT. This tube is much like the Hytron 6SN7GT, but with a sweeter tone. Not quite as detailed or neutral as the Hytron, but arguably more seductive. 

 RCA gray glass 6SN7GT/VT-231: Romanticism and warmth. The RCA gray glass possesses a full midbass and gorgeous harmonic richness, but yet delicate and detailed. When I crave the quintessential tube sound, the RCA gray glass is the first tube I plug in. 

 Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231: Heavenly from the belt up. I call this tube the anti-thesis of the Ken Rad 6SN7GT/VT-231. While somewhat lacking in bass impact, the Sylvania 6SN7GT/VT-231 arguably produces the most beautiful midrange and top end in this family of tubes. Its midrange is clear and open, and the treble is smooth as butter yet unrivaled in its detail and spatial separation. Zero listener fatigue is guaranteed. 

 Sylvania "Bad Boys" 6SN7GT (1951-1953): World class everything. Imagine the Sylvania VT-231. Now imagine it with bass in spades! What you have is Sylvania 6SN7GT from this era, often reverently referred to as "Bad Boys." This tube is often mentioned in "best 6SN7" discussions. 

 Sylvania 6SN7W: Dynamics and slam. I can think of no other 6SN7 with more visceral energy then the Sylvania 6SN7W. From earth-shattering bass to the sparkling treble, all three versions of the 6SN7Ws provide a full throttle musical experience. The Sylvania 6SN7W certainly earns its place as a legendary 6SN7. 

 Tung Sol 6SN7GT/VT-231 round plates: Absolute silk. This tube needs no introduction. The Tung Sol round plates are arguably the most sought after 6SN7 for its "organic rightness." _





 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

Thanks, Bro'...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Bro'..._

 


 Welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 You can probably pick up two or three of these for the price of a RCA 5692.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Just checked my stash and I actually have one of these:

_Hytron 6SN7GT: Neutral and fast. Need speed and clarity? Hytrons are very hard to top. This is definitely my personal tube of choice for detail and neutrality. I liken Hytrons to crystal clear streams._


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will be slowly, one at a time, buying each one and marking them off, until I have all ten._

 

Looks like a "life list", Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked my stash and I actually have one of these:

Hytron 6SN7GT: Neutral and fast. Need speed and clarity? Hytrons are very hard to top. This is definitely my personal tube of choice for detail and neutrality. I liken Hytrons to crystal clear streams._

 


 Are you sure? These have white lettering, not the red lettering.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Yep, white lettering. Is that good?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, white lettering. Is that good?_

 



 Yep.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Its actually a 'CBS Hytron'. Is that the same thing?


----------



## Jo6Pak




----------



## SoFlaChris

That is a great tube, which I'm using right now with the 5998. I have the JAN (Joint Army Navy) version.

 Sorry if I stepped-in before Nick.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a great tube, which I'm using right now with the 5998. I have the JAN (Joint Army Navy) version.

 Sorry if I stepped-in before Nick._

 


 Chris, you have a JAN-Hytron? Like a Hytron VT231?


----------



## rivieraranch

Will the circuit be harmed by using a 5998.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 


 That's it Joe. I remember you asking about that a few pages back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I saw two of them sell for $24 on eBay. A steal if you ask me.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will the circuit be harmed by using a 5998._

 


 No. I've been using one for a month now, I think, not a single problem. Except much better performance..


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is a great tube, which I'm using right now with the 5998. I have the JAN (Joint Army Navy) version.

 Sorry if I stepped-in before Nick._

 

No problem Chris, you and Nick have both been great sources of info and advice. I'll probably order the 5998 when I go back to work on Wednesday (I like to do my online shopping from there, it helps kill time). That should put in my hands sometime next week. Will pair it up with the CBS/Hytron and go from there. Might also be a good time to pop in those shunt caps.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chris, you have a JAN-Hytron? Like a Hytron VT231?_

 

Yes I do. In my 336 right now.

 Also, here are some JAN Tube Designators:

 CHS = Sylvania
 CHY = Hytron/CBS
 CRP = Raytheon
 CTL = Tung Sol
 CRC = RCA
 CNU = National Union
 CKR = Ken-Rad or (later) GE
 CG = GE

 Chris


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's it Joe. I remember you asking about that a few pages back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I saw two of them sell for $24 on eBay. A steal if you ask me._

 

Yeh. I paid $40 + shipping.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Might also be a good time to pop in those shunt caps._

 

Only if your amp hums.


----------



## nick20

Chris, mind me asking what you paid for it?


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only if your amp hums._

 

As I recall, this one does hum. I didn't have the patience to burn it in, so I put the Sylvania back in.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chris, mind me asking what you paid for it?_

 

No prob... Around 60 clams for NOS, 1957.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I recall, this one does hum. I didn't have the patience to burn it in, so I put the Sylvania back in._

 

Those have been reported to hum in the 336. Try letting it burn past the normal time that it took for most of your other humming tubes to subside. No dice, then "put 2 caps in the amp's azz"


----------



## rivieraranch

I have had mine on for 14 hours straight today, with the new CBS 5692 tube I bought from a forum member. 

 At first, yesterday the tube hummed and buzzed a little in the left channel. I changed out the RCA 6AS7 from the back and installed a 1965 JAN Sylvania 6080, still some buzz/hum this morning, then later this afternoon/evening it subsided. 

 You are all so right that you need to run these old tubes to let them clean themselves out.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are all so right that you need to run these old tubes to let them clean themselves out._

 


 x2


 Mine has been on for 4 days straight (24 hours a day) burning in my new IC's PC, and new headphones (K701's), using the stock tubes. Not a problem at all, except the amp runs hot, and an extra fan is needed to move the air around. I plan on going 7-days on, 1 day off, kind of cycle, while burning in my headphones/IC/PC. 


 I am loving this amp + tube + headphone combo...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No prob... Around 60 clams for NOS, 1957._

 


 This is an excellent tube Chris. Mike lent me his for a few days, and all I can say is WOW! I'd pay $60, but 

 A) I hope my luck will bring me a NOS one..

 B) ..and for cheaper than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Good score Chris. 



 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

I have one just like that, saving it for a rainy day...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

This was a good deal I think - $23.50 shipped NEW BOXED JAN MILITARY CBS 6SN7 TWIN TRIODE AUDIO TUBE. NEW OLD STOCK IN THE ORIGINAL CARTON. TESTED - 1955 MANUFACTURE DATE.

NEW BOXED JAN MILITARY CBS 6SN7 TWIN TRIODE AUDIO TUBE - eBay (item 120197715777 end time Dec-19-07 19:05:36 PST)

 Here is another deal I got - two tubes, $15 each = $38.99 shipped CBS/Hytron 6SN7.

6SN7 CBS HYTRON~BLACK PLATE~BOTTOM D GET~TUBE AMPLIFIER - eBay (item 180184631329 end time Nov-27-07 18:08:02 PST)

 I will try to take a listen soon, and I also have a Sylvania VT231 to listen to.


----------



## Skylab

Of that list of tubes Nick posted, I have the Hytron, RCA, Tung-Sol, and Sylvania 6SN7W. When I get the loaner "Bad Boy" from Nick, I plan to do a little comparison, including the RCA red-base 5692 and the CBS Brown-base 5692.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an excellent tube Chris. Mike lent me his for a few days, and all I can say is WOW! I'd pay $60, but 

 A) I hope my luck will bring me a NOS one..

 B) ..and for cheaper than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Good score Chris. 



 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I paid more than I wanted to, but after getting burned a few times, I figured that I'd get one from a source that I knew and trusted.

 Remember the smoke glass 6sn7 that I paid a ridiculous 55 clams for? Was supposed to be NOS. Wasn't. It is also microphonic as all get out. I've asked the guy whom I purchased it from if he'll swap it for a 'true' NOS. He won't return my emails. I also got burned with some low price scores on eBarf.

 With your luck, you'll get a pair of NOS valves for free!


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have one just like that, saving it for a rainy day..._

 

That's not the same one. Splitting hairs here, but mine is the brown base with orange lettering.

 I suspect that they'd sound the same.

 BTW, Happy New Year fellas.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not the same one. Splitting hairs here, but mine is the brown base with orange lettering.

 I suspect that they'd sound the same.

 BTW, Happy New Year fellas._

 

Sorry, I was referring to the CBS Hytron white lettering that "Jo6Pak" posted a photo.

 Right now I am listening with my RS-2 to my new Sylvania VT-231. It is fuller than the Raytheon 6SN7GT (which is good with Darth Beyer), and closer to my Hytron 5692 Brown-Base (which is good with Grado RS-2). But, I am having to burn some hum out of it, like I had to with the Raytheon...

 So far the Hytron 5692 brown-base is a top "all rounder", but I always use the Raytheon 6SN7GT for the Darth Beyers to tame the midbass hump. This VT231 sounds promising, and I will use it more to see how I like it once the hum is burned out. I will probably try the "radiator" 6SN7GT again and burn the hum out of that too, after this one, since it sounded good too above the hum. 

 I still don't have those grey glass from Canada yet. I do have several more flavors of 6SN7 tubes - CBS 6SN7GTB, JAN CRC RCA 6SN7GT, and CBS Hytron 6SN7GT, Tung Sol re-issue, etc. I am close to having tried many the good ones, except the chrome top sylvania, bad boys and good boys and good ol boys.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's not the same one. Splitting hairs here, but mine is the brown base with orange lettering.._

 


 Chris, are you referring to a RCA 5692?


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, Happy New Year fellas._

 


 Same to you buddy!!


----------



## nick20

Larry, I know you will be impressed by the Hytron VT-231. It's an EXCELLENT tube. It also couldn't hurt to get one of those "Bad Boy's" either.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a short clipping from Mike (Negatron), who's had my "Bad Boy" for 5 days..

_"Your BB is a world class tube."_



 It's not only I, who thinks this tube is spectacular. Rob (Skylab) will be receiving the "BB" next. 




 -Nick


----------



## Negatron

Just a quick jump in from a hectic holiday week, I auditioned the 'BB' of Nick's and compared it to several others on hand and will in a few days get around to condensing my notes and jotting down a few words on the impressions. Skylab should have the soon to be airways 'Cryo'd' tube in a couple of days. Just a quick note in that the 'BB' is a very close relative to the Syl VT-231 family.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Negatron* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick jump in from a hectic holiday week, I auditioned the 'BB' of Nick's and compared it to several others on hand and will in a few days get around to condensing my notes and jotting down a few words on the impressions. Skylab should have the soon to be airways 'Cryo'd' tube in a couple of days. Just a quick note in that the 'BB' is a very close relative to the Syl VT-231 family._

 

Well, hear's to hoping my Syl VT-231 has the hum burned out of it by morning... 


 ...get it, hear's, not here's...


----------



## Jo6Pak

Just placed the order for a 5998. Got it from a dude in Missouri, so shouldn't take long to get to me down here in Tex-Ass, once it ships (UPS). Paid $45 +$9 for NOS, ST. Planning to pair it up with the CBS/Hytron that was recently discussed here until I can get my hands on something 'better'.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just placed the order for a 5998. Got it from a dude in Missouri, so shouldn't take long to get to me down here in Tex-Ass, once it ships (UPS). Paid $45 +$9 for NOS, ST. Planning to pair it up with the CBS/Hytron that was recently discussed here until I can get my hands on something 'better'._

 



 Congrat's Joe. Enjoy the special tube.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just placed the order for a 5998._

 

Which one did you get?


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one did you get?_

 

Dunno. All I know is that it is a 'coke bottle' (ST) and this from the seller:

 All 5998's were made by Tung Sol / Chatham. 
 Dates range from the 50's through the 60's.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dunno. All I know is that it is a 'coke bottle' (ST) and this from the seller:

 All 5998's were made by Tung Sol / Chatham. 
 Dates range from the 50's through the 60's._

 


 All of them are coke bottle shapped. Nonetheless, you got one of the best tubes for this amp, period.





 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

I was only asking because I've seen some WE 421A (rebranded Tung Sol 5998) go for ridiculous prices.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was only asking because I've seen some WE 421A (rebranded Tung Sol 5998) go for ridiculous prices._

 



 Yep. The WE 421a's call for a higher price, for some reason. I also think they are a bit rarer than the 5998's, or at least it seems like less of the 421a's are for sale/available. Not that either one is readily available...





 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

All 5998's were made by Tung-Sol, and are coke-bottle shaped. Some were branded for other companies, including the WE421. 

 However, the 5998a, which is similar, was made by GE, and isn't coke bottle shaped. Still a nice tube, though.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well at 36 hours this morning, my Sylvania VT-231 was still humming as loud and clear as when I first fired it up. I was prepared for big disappointment.

 But, at 42 hours this afternoon it was half as loud. At almost 48 hours now the hum is about 80-85% quieter. So, I am hoping it will be gone by morning.

 I still can't understand how they could make these tubes sound so good 60 years ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, it's a good thing they didn't have the Edition 9 back then, or all development in Hi-Fi would have ceased due to no need to make things better


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well at 36 hours this morning, my Sylvania VT-231 was still humming as loud and clear as when I first fired it up. I was prepared for big disappointment.

 But, at 42 hours this afternoon it was half as loud. At almost 48 hours now the hum is about 80-85% quieter. So, I am hoping it will be gone by morning.

 I still can't understand how they could make these tubes sound so good 60 years ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, it's a good thing they didn't have the Edition 9 back then, or all development in Hi-Fi would have ceased due to no need to make things better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 I'm glad things are clearing up for you.

 I've read, the normal "build" time, from start to finish, for most tubes in that era was about 24 hours. In the same article, I also read that some tubes took up to 3-7 days to build a single one, and were often rejected due to strict quality control. I would assume these are the Military versions. Most tubes were often built by hand (usually women). My Mom used to build these back in the day, and instantly recognized the tubes when I showed her.




 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

My new 5998 shipped yesterday via UPS. I should have it in hand by next Wednesday. First audition will be the following Friday nite (assuming it arrives in one piece)...


----------



## nick20

Woohoo! I just scored my second best, if not tied for first, best score on eBay. I bought all three from the same seller. He uses a Hickock 800 tube tester.


 I got the following tubes for $60 shipped...


 1 RCA 6SN7GT NOS (original box) [$42] I know, I know, but these NOS including the ORIGINAL box are extremely rare. I found a few bordering $75-$100+! a piece including original box. I got a good deal here, IMO. Essentially, in my eyes, I paid $25 for the tube, and $17 for the box. Therefor, to me, this tube will get very little use, as it's valued much higher than normal smoked glass tubes. I'll pick up another smoked glass for normal use. 








 1 Sylvania 6SN7WGTA NOS. [$5] Great deal on a good tube..








 1 Raytheon 6SN7GTB NOS (includes original box) [$9]









 Plus S&H comes to a grand total of $60. IMO, the best $60 I've ever spent on tubes... 





 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

hey nick-

 i just got a raytheon 6sn7gtb with a chrome top that says 'japan' on it. are they any good???

 EDIT: all yellow lettering on the glass only, nothing on the base.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey nick-

 i just got a raytheon 6sn7gtb with a chrome top that says 'japan' on it. are they any good???

 EDIT: all yellow lettering on the glass only, nothing on the base._

 


 Hmm.. that's odd.

 Can you post a picture possibly, or find one? Usually japenese/chinese variants are labeled different tubes (6N8). In all honesty, I have no idea, but I do remember seeing a tube with the writing on the glass and not the base.




 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 PS. Does it sound any good?


----------



## nick20

And to make matters worse guys, I picked up ANOTHER pair of "Bad Boy's" The seller had NO idea what they were, when I asked if each side had three holes, he said, "yes, for a total of 6 per tube". The next day, he confirms this, to me with another e-mail, because he's wondering why I asked specifically about the hole's. 

 His response:

*There are three small rectangular holes per vertical metal tower inside the glass....two towers x 3 holes/tower = 6 per tube. Each tower is shaped like a "T". I hope that helps*



 Needless to say guys, this one cost even less than my other $8 "BB". How about $7 a pop! I paid like $20 including S&H

 I'll post pictures when they arrive. Obviously he doesn't have the right camera angle to show the correct holes.

 I instantly knew by these pictures it was a "3-holer", simply because the top hole is much higher than a standard two-hole version. Which was a simple give away, but just to confirm my findings, I e-mailed him. 



 I also noticed all the ones labeled "Bad Boy" in the title, sell for a hell of a lot of money.. If you have lots of patience, you will find them at the stupid low prices I am paying.



 Man, I am ON FIRE! tonight... I wish I had more money.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Mwuahh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woohoo! I just scored my second best, if not tied for first, best score on eBay. I bought all three from the same seller. He uses a Hickock 800 tube tester.

 ...snip...

 1 Raytheon 6SN7GTB NOS (includes original box) [$9]








 ..snip...

 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That looks like the same Raytheon I am using that I got from Skylab that took less than a day to burn out the hum. Very nice tube, and pairs well with Darth Beyer to knock out the mid-bass hump. Skylab gavwe me a good deal at $15 shipped.


----------



## Skylab

Nick, those are some nice tube scores. You will find that the 6SN7WGTA brown base (assuming yours is OK) is an exceptionally fine sounding tube - surprisingly these can often be had at a reasonable cost.

 Jo6Pak, tubes made in post-war Japan were not very highly regarded. Japan used the same tube numbering system as the US during this time (as opposed to China, which did not of course). But in general I would not expect much from a US branded but Japan-made tube.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick, those are some nice tube scores. You will find that the 6SN7WGTA brown base (assuming yours is OK) is an exceptionally fine sounding tube - surprisingly these can often be had at a reasonable cost._

 


 Yeah they were. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 AND, I decided to test my luck last night.. I went out and bought a $1 scratch off from the gas station, and won $50! 


 IMO, yesterday was one of the better days of my life.. nothing went wrong, and everything went right. I couldn't be happier.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks like the same Raytheon I am using that I got from Skylab that took less than a day to burn out the hum. Very nice tube, and pairs well with Darth Beyer to knock out the mid-bass hump. Skylab gavwe me a good deal at $15 shipped._

 


 Rob's a good source for tubes.. but from time to time, I check and see what's going on with eBay's tube source. Most of the time, they go to expensive, except in my case.


 A little tid bit about me.. 

 I prize and collect original boxes. I just feel incomplete if I don't have the original box. It's like buying a bottle of fine liquor for full price, and only getting half a bottle.. (maybe that makes sense, LOL)




 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jo6Pak, tubes made in post-war Japan were not very highly regarded. Japan used the same tube numbering system as the US during this time (as opposed to China, which did not of course). But in general I would not expect much from a US branded but Japan-made tube._

 

Skylab-

 Thanks for the info. The MIJ Raytheon was more or less a 'freebie'. It was thrown into the deal when I bought an RCA 6SN7GT. 

 Nick-

 I'll try to snap of a pic with the little camera I bought a couple weeks ago. I believe it has macro setting. Congrats on the lucky streak!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab-

 Thanks for the info. The MIJ Raytheon was more or less a 'freebie'. It was thrown into the deal when I bought an RCA 6SN7GT. 

 Nick-

 I'll try to snap of a pic with the little camera I bought a couple weeks ago. I believe it has macro setting. Congrats on the lucky streak!_

 



 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Macro will do, but it takes a real steady hand, which I don't have, usually. So I just use the "image stabalization" and sacrafice some image quality.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_AND, I decided to test my luck last night.. I went out and bought a $1 scratch off from the gas station, and won $50! 

 IMO, yesterday was one of the better days of my life.. nothing went wrong, and everything went right. I couldn't be happier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm elated that you're happy, but you still suck. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ANNNNNND.... I didn't even get one friggin number in Saturday's lottery.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm elated that you're happy, but you still suck. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ANNNNNND.... I didn't even get one friggin number in Saturday's lottery._

 


 LOL Chris! You and Mike are the "clowns" around here.. and are such awesome people. (no offense intended) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both of you have a great sense of humor. 

 I sold Rob my first BB as he was floored by it's performance when he first heard it. I still have two more coming, and I will be keeping my eye out for more. If you WANT a BB and don't want to pay "market" price for them, contact me, and I'll see what can be done.





 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 PS Go *LSU!! * Buckeyes suuuuuuck..


----------



## nick20

Anyone up for a 9-tube RCA smoked glass "group-buy"? My guess easily over $175, may go for much more though, depending on how "valuable" they are in the eyes of the bidder. 

 I think $20/tube is pretty fair for a lot of 9. 


NINE RCA SMOKE GLASS 6SN7 AMPLIFIER TUBE - eBay (item 350012365279 end time Jan-10-08 13:15:00 PST)


----------



## nick20

Also, I'd like to start "storing" my valuable tubes in some sort of box.

 This is the best thing I've seen that will suit the job. I'm just wondering if you guys had any other ideas?

Cabela's -- Plano Hard Case




 Thanks,


 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Nick, I think that kind of case would be hard on your nice vintage tube boxes. You need something with a flat bottom.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick, I think that kind of case would be hard on your nice vintage tube boxes. You need something with a flat bottom._

 


 What if I just flipped-flopped the foam? I messed with the item in the store.. both pieces are removeable...

 To make egg-crate on top, flat on bottom; or flat on top, or flat on bottom?


----------



## jona.p

What about you just take a drawer or something put some soft cloth on the floor and you got yourself a place to store tubes ;p.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jona.p* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about you just take a drawer or something put some soft cloth on the floor and you got yourself a place to store tubes ;p._

 


 I don't have much storage space, especially enough to take apart a drawer. I need something like a "box" with foam in it in which I can display and show people who are interested. Plus I like the fact it locks (with a real lock) as well.





 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Why not take a look at an old tube box, like the TV/Radio Techs carried? Adds to the whole vintage box thing. One of mine has 'RCA' printed on the side.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL Chris! You and Mike are the "clowns" around here.. and are such awesome people. (no offense intended) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Both of you have a great sense of humor. 
 PS Go *LSU!! * Buckeyes suuuuuuck.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, we're a bunch of funny bastards, alright 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Go New York Rangers!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why not take a look at an old tube box, like the TV/Radio Techs carried? Adds to the whole vintage box thing. One of mine has 'RCA' printed on the side._

 


 Any pictures of your's? 

 I found the above Plano foam box, on eBay for $6.99 + shipping. For that price, I dobt I'll pass it up, unless your tube box looks good..



 EDIT: Chris, I have no idea where to look for one of these.. any advice?


 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

How about a fishing tackle-box, filled up with tubes instead of fishing lures and floats?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about a fishing tackle-box, lines with tubes instead of fishing lures and floats? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 That's what the above link is for.. a Plano "reel box/case".


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone up for a 9-tube RCA smoked glass "group-buy"? My guess easily over $175, may go for much more though, depending on how "valuable" they are in the eyes of the bidder. 

 I think $20/tube is pretty fair for a lot of 9. 


NINE RCA SMOKE GLASS 6SN7 AMPLIFIER TUBE - eBay (item 350012365279 end time Jan-10-08 13:15:00 PST)_

 

The test results on the first one show that it is a dog, not strong at all.


----------



## Jo6Pak

My new 5998 arrived yesterday. Got my hands on it briefly this morning, just before leaving for work. It is a Tung-Sol with green lettering on the base, if that means anything. Will fire it up in the next day or two.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My new 5998 arrived yesterday. Got my hands on it briefly this morning, just before leaving for work. It is a Tung-Sol with green lettering on the base, if that means anything. Will fire it up in the next day or two._

 


 These are the 1967 versions. I have never read any differences between white/green lettering.

 As long as it says TS-5998, you're good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 For heavens sake, fire that bad boy up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT: I see you listened briefly this morning; was it a night/day experience for you? It won't take but 15 seconds to realize the difference.. a big on at that..


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: I see you listened briefly this morning; was it a night/day experience for you? It won't take but 15 seconds to realize the difference.. a big on at that.._

 

Actually I didn't listen to it, just got my hands on it. Was delivered yesterday by UPS and my apt mgr signed forr it. Wasn't able to retrieve it from them until this morning. I only opened the box (white), looked it over briefly and cleaned the pins, then put it back in the box. I'm off Friday, so will attend to it further then.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I didn't listen to it, just got my hands on it. Was delivered yesterday by UPS and my apt mgr signed forr it. Wasn't able to retrieve it from them until this morning. I only opened the box (white), looked it over briefly and cleaned the pins, then put it back in the box. I'm off Friday, so will attend to it further then._

 


 I thought you listened to music more frequently than that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, as soon as my 5998 arrived, I HAD to listen to it.. come on Joe, make some "special" time for this true "Bad Boy". You'll wish you had done it earlier.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's what the above link is for.. a Plano "reel box/case". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No, a tackle box has little shelves in it with sections for different lures and weights and floats, etc... It looks more like a tool box, and when you open it the shelves raise and spread out to display everything.

Cabela's -- Plano Flipsider™ 3-Tray 7603 Tackle Box






 What you showed was a "reel" box that looks more like a gun case.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

PS: can't say the slots are big enough for tubes, but they have a return policy.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought you listened to music more frequently than that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I only listen to music on my days off so that I may dedicate myself entirely to the process...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only listen to music on my days off so that I may dedicate myself entirely to the process..._

 


 I'm sad to hear that... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anywho, hopefully come Friday, you'll be a very pleased 5998 owner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Larry, we have about 6 of those here (we fish A LOT!) and only a one or two has wide enough slots for only a few tubes.


 I'm going to get the "reel"/"gun" case, and see if I can mod it slightly to accept the tubes the proper way. 

 ie. flip and trim the foam, and maybe make some sort of "groove" in the foam so the boxes sit flush. We'll see..





 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, we have about 6 of those here (we fish A LOT!) and only a one or two has wide enough slots for only a few tubes.


 I'm going to get the "reel"/"gun" case, and see if I can mod it slightly to accept the tubes the proper way. 

 ie. flip and trim the foam, and maybe make some sort of "groove" in the foam so the boxes sit flush. We'll see..





 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You mean the way that I did my 3 caliber glock kit with suppressor, cutting out foam to make slots for different mags, barrels and slides?


----------



## SoFlaChris

Nice can on the Glock, Larry.

 Go Class 3 or go home


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any pictures of your's? 
 EDIT: Chris, I have no idea where to look for one of these.. any advice?

 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Right HERE at the place where you love to shop.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sad to hear that... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anywho, hopefully come Friday, you'll be a very pleased 5998 owner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -Nick_

 

Generally, I spend the week researching/buying music/movies and then listen/watch on the weekend with a few glasses of wine/beer while there is nothing to interrupt/piss me off. So far that routine has been working for me. If the weather is nice, I'll also try to make time for a joyride on the Dyna...


----------



## Dominat0r

well guys, been a while since i posted...just came back from a break for my wallet....well 1 day back i decided to pick up some K701s. Ya, 1 day back....gawd i hate this place. 

 Anyway...been swapping tubes all day on my DV, having a time trying to come up with a good combo for my 701s. Granted they need some more break in time...got about 210 hours through them...pretty much had em on all day, took a nap...ran some pink noise for like 3-4 hours and came back. So far im liking the Valvo 6080 and Sylvania 6SN7GTB.

 So my next question...for people with the K701's...what combos are you using?

 I got a Kenrad black glass 6SN7GT i got, but its got a hum to it...however, if i turn it up loud enough, i can tune it out. Also have a GE 6SN7GTB...for backs i have the RCA 6AS7G gray plate...the valvo...a GE 6080. 

 So ya, chime in with some thoughts of your tubes and your k701s.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I find the 6080's are a little colder than an RCA 6AS7G, so I would try the RCA with the 701's - I switched from the RCA grey plate to a JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G black plate with a slight improvement in open-ness and warmth.

 I found the the CBS 6SN7GTB and Tung Sol re-issue 6SN7GT were also a little colder up front. In trying to find a warmer front tube for my RS-2, I found the Sylvania VT-231 and Hytron brownbase 5692 improve the bass and mids, but the VT-231 has more extension in the highs, but is a little sharper there too. One of those two might work for you, but unfortunately they are both in the $50+ range, depending on used or new, and can go as high as $99 for a new Hytron 5692 brownbase.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dar...ml#post3463332


----------



## Skylab

If what you want is to warm up the K701's a little (which would be undderstandable), then yeah, all RCA would be the way to go, grey-plate 6AS7G and an RCA 6SN7 - the VT-231 is best, but about $50; the 6SN7GTB's are not as detailed, but still nice, and definitely on the lush side.


----------



## scchai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Toanaldino,

 With patience and perseverance on ebay, you can find the RCA 6AS7G grey plate. NOS usually go for about $15-$20USD apiece +shipping.

 PatABurd_

 

PatABurd,

 I also own the DV 336i and found that is topic is very helpful for me. I have question about the RCA 6AS7G grey plate. Beside the physical look, which i am not sure since many seller on Ebay tell that it is black or gray, do you have any other thing that we can use to check if it is real gray plate?

 Thank in advance

 Scchai


----------



## Dominat0r

im going to look for a RCA front 6SN7GTB, i have the 6AS7G Gray ...

 anyone got one laying around, send me a PM. 

 PS, anyone try the Valvo 6080 types? I have one, sounds kinda nice...controlled deep bass...not as loose as the RCA Gray.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Well, this morning I installed my new T-S 5998 and it appears to be pretty quiet. That is, no audible hum. I removed the Sylvania from the front slot (had been paired with an RCA 6AS7G in rear) and installed the CBS-Hytron, as planned. That thing not only hums but hisses. Can't deal with that, so I removed it. Have an RCA 6SN7GTB in the front slot now and, even though it also appears quiet, am running some alternating pink/white noise thru both. I need to find a DECENT front tube to pair up with the 5998.

 Nick-

 If you find yourself over-run with bad boys and want to thin the herd, PM me with options...


----------



## Skylab

The good news is that there are a zillion good types of 6SN7's...


----------



## Dominat0r

guys should really try this valvo 6080 in the back...i find it alittle less warm then my RCA 6AS7 in the back....very subtle change though.

 Still doing some break in with my new K701....i dont why people say they are bass shy...i guess you guys must REALLY like the bass in your music. I like more even sound, which is why i really like the 701s. To much bass takes away from other parts of the music imo..


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ installed the CBS-Hytron, as planned. That thing not only hums but hisses. Can't deal with that, so I removed it. I need to find a DECENT front tube to pair up with the 5998._

 

Before you step on the CBS-Hytron, run it at the very least 24 hours before dismissing it, bro.

 I have the Tungsol JAN-5998 in the rear with the CBS-Hytron JAN 5692 up front and it the best combo, for my amp anyway. Night and day difference. As always, they're your ears and only you know what sounds good. At least try to work out the hum/hiss issue.

 I'll go back to my nap now.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guys should really try this valvo 6080 in the back...i find it alittle less warm then my RCA 6AS7 in the back....very subtle change though._

 

This Valvo?:






 Looks alot like a pair of JAN-Philips that I have. For me, 6080's are a tad "sterile", almost too _solid-state sounding_ for a tube amp, IMO.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before you step on the CBS-Hytron, run it at the very least 24 hours before dismissing it, bro._

 

Thanks man, I'll take that under advisement...


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This Valvo?:







 Looks alot like a pair of JAN-Philips that I have. For me, 6080's are a tad "sterile", almost too solid-state sounding for a tube amp, IMO._

 


 Kinda similar , cept the markings are a tad different....my have the code AJ.1 R2E2. However, just heard something loose inside of the tube.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ heard something loose inside of the tube._

 

That usually doesn't mean much. I have a few that rattle and work just fine.


----------



## Skylab

All 6AS7 tubes rattle slightly. It's (usually) not that anything is actually loose.


----------



## Dominat0r

good, i kinda liked that combo...however, im going to give the RCA another listen. I cant see anything inside thats moving so i think its in between the metal case and the plastic bottem.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Hey Skylab/Nick/Chris/Anyone Else -

 I've noticed the Red Base RCAs for the front slot on our amps go for relatively high dollar amounts on evilbay and I am wondering:

 What's the deal with those particular tubes?
 Are they worth the high prices they fetch?
 What makes them so special?
 Should I get one?

 It is my understanding they run hot in the DV336i and for that reason I question whether or not it would be a good idea to invest in something with a reduced life span (or is that even an issue?).

 Curious...

 THANKS!


----------



## Skylab

I have a red-base RCA 5692 and while it does indeed sound quite good, there are lots of equal or better sounding and cheaper tubes, including but not limited to the Tung Sol brown-base 6SN7GTB, Sylvania 6SN7WGT, CBS 5692, and RCA VT-231.

 The Sylvania "Bad-Boy" also sounds better, but it can be hard to get cheap.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before you step on the CBS-Hytron, run it at the very least 24 hours before dismissing it, bro.

 I have the Tungsol JAN-5998 in the rear with the CBS-Hytron JAN 5692 up front and it the best combo, for my amp anyway. Night and day difference. As always, they're your ears and only you know what sounds good. At least try to work out the hum/hiss issue.

 I'll go back to my nap now._

 

The Sylvia ania VT231 in my 336i right now took 36 hours to get quiet.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right HERE at the place where you love to shop._

 

WOW! Expensiveeee... 

 I paid $7.50 for the Plano hard case on eBay... it should be here Monday. 






 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a red-base RCA 5692 and while it does indeed sound quite good, there are lots of equal or better sounding and cheaper tubes, including but not limited to the Tung Sol brown-base 6SN7GTB, Sylvania 6SN7WGT, CBS 5692, and RCA VT-231.

 The Sylvania "Bad-Boy" also sounds better, but it can be hard to get cheap._

 


 Rob, and Mike, would you two gentlemen mind posting your results you found while using the "Bad-Boy"? 


 Moreso, for the use of the members here.. Heck, I can't stop buying these tubes (Bad-Boy) it's like an addiction.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Before you know it, I'll have 99% of them.. I love these dearly.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 Thanks guys,


 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Skylab/Nick/Chris/Anyone Else -

 I've noticed the Red Base RCAs for the front slot on our amps go for relatively high dollar amounts on evilbay and I am wondering:

 What's the deal with those particular tubes?
 Are they worth the high prices they fetch?
 What makes them so special?
 Should I get one?

 It is my understanding they run hot in the DV336i and for that reason I question whether or not it would be a good idea to invest in something with a reduced life span (or is that even an issue?).

 Curious...

 THANKS!_

 

Joe, I feel the red-base, white lettering (50's) (not red lettering; 60's)mint NOS tubes are more a collectors tube, than a listening tube, because there are better tubes out there for the money. However, if you feel the need to purchase one, they are not bad tubes. I won't get one until I have my collection of "top 10" tubes completed; which BTW I'm only 5 more away from completing it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Anywho, there is much debate on the 5692's, hell, even 6SN7's, on how long they last. A GOOD generalization, is about 2000 hours, but of course this depends on if you have a TRUE NOS, not almost NOS, or like new, which will likely decrease the hours, but then again, it all depends on the tube, and how it's built. 


 I can't comment if they last 10,000 hours, or 5,000 hours, or how long they last, but the debate will go on...






 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sylvia ania VT231 in my 336i right now took 36 hours to get quiet._

 


 Not uncommon. However most tubes are "burnt-in" before even 24 hours sometimes.


 I had a smoked glass RCA go for almost 100 hours before loosing it's "noise". So if you stick with it, you can get rid of that noise..


 FYI, I ran my amp for 8 straight days while I had my K701's and stock tubes of course. These amps can handle 24/7, trust me.




 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

The Sylvania "Bad Boy" is a great tube, no doubt. I actually conned Nick into selling it to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's among my favorite 6SN7's. Nice and dynamic, good detail and air, while still lush enough to deserve to be called a tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only 6SN7 variant I have that is CLEARLY better than the bad boy is the (crazy-expensive) JAN-Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base. The Bad Boy ir right up there with the other REALLY good 6SN7 types I have (the 5692's, the VT231's). Outstanding tube. Thanks to Nick for turning me onto it.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sylvania "Bad Boy" is a great tube, no doubt. I actually conned Nick into selling it to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's among my favorite 6SN7's. Nice and dynamic, good detail and air, while still lush enough to deserve to be called a tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only 6SN7 variant I have that is CLEARLY better than the bad boy is the (crazy-expensive) JAN-Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base. The Bad Boy ir right up there with the other REALLY good 6SN7 types I have (the 5692's, the VT231's). Outstanding tube. Thanks to Nick for turning me onto it._

 



 Excellent, & you're welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have also read, as good as the metal base is, it is also a risky pick, because of the (build) quality (I think) of the tube, and lots of arching (I don't remember) is some-what common with this tube, from what I read. [I apologize, I loss some of my memory due to the medications I'm on]

 Is this pretty true? I've been eyeing one from time to time (until they sell for more than I have).



 For those wondering where I've been, I was hospitalized Wednesday, for 4-days, and released this afternoon. I checked myself into the hospital when I had thoughts of suicide (un-like me). Now, I'm perfectly stable, and the Doc sent me home today. I had some partial memory loss, ie. things that happened last week, what medication I was using, where I was, etc. But Doc quickly switched medication, and I became like I was, normally, and functional. 

 I'm open to talk about it, if you'd like to PM me. I feel good when I talk about it, so it doesn't bother me. I just don't want to flood the thread with lots of information about me..




 -Nick


----------



## nick20

I was just wondering if anyone was interested in any Tung-Sol JAN 5998's. I have two left, in the below picture, plus my original TS 5998 I bought 2 months ago.
 For those of you who might not be familiar with this tube, it is hands-down the best tube under $100. Let this tube take your music to a new level. And improve everything your previous tubes were lacking, I'm serious. I promise, this is an absolute winner. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




First tube: SOLD!
 My original TS 5998 [white lettering], in 8.5/10 condition wise, with a few of the letters starting to rub off. No lettering is completely missing, but the ends of the "A" in JAN are rubbing off, along with 2 numbers, and one more letter. The tube has been used by me, is "hum" or "noise" free. I found a source for 3 of these, and I'd like to keep them around here, instead of hitting them up on eBay. I'm not trying to make money, instead I'd rather sacrifice a few dollars, and KNOW they will be used by a member here.
*Price:* $35 shipped, PayPal'd. PERFECT for someone wanting to hear about all the "rave" of this tube.


Third tube:
 An ABSOLUTE "true" NOS testing single or pair TS-5998. One white lettering, one green lettering. The green lettering tube was made only a few years after the white lettering onces came out. In fact, the green-lettering yields no audible difference, and was made in 1967. 
 True NOS tubes of this caliber don't come up often, and when they do, they call for "extreme" prices.

*Left and Middle tubes spoken for. All that's left is the far right, white lettering, original box TS-5998.*

 See below:

Western Electric 421A dual triode NOS new in box - eBay (item 170184277232 end time Jan-16-08 09:24:42 PST)
 (WE rebranded TS, TS made these tubes for WE, which is the same tube as a5998, except it has a WE brand and they change some number, to 421a. 







 The middle tube is taken. Just the far left, and fat right tubes are available now. 

 Recently there's been a surge in prices, and these tubes are creeping up towards $70-$80 and into the hundreds with original boxes. 


*Price:* $65 a piece, shipped, PayPal'd. 


 PM me for more information, or have any questions, or if you'd like to purchase. 



 Thank you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent, & you're welcome. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have also read, as good as the metal base is, it is also a risky pick, because of the (build) quality (I think) of the tube, and lots of arching (I don't remember) is some-what common with this tube, from what I read. [I apologize, I loss some of my memory due to the medications I'm on]

 Is this pretty true? I've been eyeing one from time to time (until they sell for more than I have).



 For those wondering where I've been, I was hospitalized Wednesday, for 4-days, and released this afternoon. I checked myself into the hospital when I had thoughts of suicide (un-like me). Now, I'm perfectly stable, and the Doc sent me home today. I had some partial memory loss, ie. things that happened last week, what medication I was using, where I was, etc. But Doc quickly switched medication, and I became like I was, normally, and functional. 

 I'm open to talk about it, if you'd like to PM me. I feel good when I talk about it, so it doesn't bother me. I just don't want to flood the thread with lots of information about me..




 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nick:

 First and foremost, I'm glad you're feeling better, and wish you all the best. Your presence on this forum is a benefit to head-fi!

 Second, the 6SN7W I have has certainly had no problems. I think the issues you raised are very small in number, but have been brought up in relation to how expensive metal-bas 6SN7's have become. I was lucky enough to get a used one for $65; they often for well over $150.

 Third, very cool of you to offer to sell some of your 5998's, but probably best to take that post to the F/S forums 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick:

 First and foremost, I'm glad you're feeling better, and wish you all the best. Your presence on this forum is a benefit to head-fi!

 Second, the 6SN7W I have has certainly had no problems. I think the issues you raised are very small in number, but have been brought up in relation to how expensive metal-bas 6SN7's have become. I was lucky enough to get a used one for $65; they often for well over $150.

 Third, very cool of you to offer to sell some of your 5998's, but probably best to take that post to the F/S forums 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers._

 



 Thank you for your kind words Rob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's much appreciated. I feel open to talk about my problems (because it's good for me), however I just limited it to a fine line in case anyone wanted to talk about it in PM. 


 In regards to the tube, that's what I was thinking, however I thought (it WAS a good idea) I could try here first, to offer those 336i owners the chance first. I know some of the Woo's use the 5998's as well, and while I wont have a problem selling them, I thought I'd try here first. I apologize if it's against the rules or anything.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Thank you once again, Rob, you're comments is what fuels me, and keeps me going. I'm glad to see that I'm appreciated here, and have been missed. I've missed this "family" as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Dom, my best bet would be to get in contact with SoFlaChris (Chris) and see if he's willing to sell you his RCA-JAN 6AS7. It's a step better than anything you've used so far, and will be a good upgrade.

 I sold Chris my JAN-CRC 6AS7, so he may still have it, as he now uses the TS-5998. 


 Also, put that Ken Rad in, and run it with pink-noise (that I gave you) 24/7 for two days. Then inspect it. It's likely it's either GONE completely, or about 90+% gone. If the tube still has "noise" after 48 hours, burn it in for another 48 hours. The amp can handle 24/7 operation, trust me. I did it for 8.5 days on my amp.. No problems at all. 


 EDIT: Rob (Skylab) has two for sale as well. PM either person..




 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Anyone need a new headphone stand? 

 Check out the link below:


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/ne...ap-too-285105/



 I bought one, and I'm EXTREMELY pleased with it. Awesome looking stand, with awesome build quality. It's really a top-notch stand, at an affordable price. Just click the link for more info..

 I thought I'd pass this along to my fellow 336i owners. 





 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Here's one for the hardcore tubeheads... Make your own Triode tube: Video Fabrication d'une lampe triode


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dom, my best bet would be to get in contact with SoFlaChris (Chris) and see if he's willing to sell you his RCA-JAN 6AS7. It's a step better than anything you've used so far, and will be a good upgrade.

 I sold Chris my JAN-CRC 6AS7, so he may still have it, as he now uses the TS-5998. 


 Also, put that Ken Rad in, and run it with pink-noise (that I gave you) 24/7 for two days. Then inspect it. It's likely it's either GONE completely, or about 90+% gone. If the tube still has "noise" after 48 hours, burn it in for another 48 hours. The amp can handle 24/7 operation, trust me. I did it for 8.5 days on my amp.. No problems at all. 


 EDIT: Rob (Skylab) has two for sale as well. PM either person..




 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I was thinking about trying and burn in that kenrad alittle....maybe i will give it a go and see...i gave it a cleaning last night and was still humming. 

 I swapped last night to a GE (white lettering, newer GE logo) 6SN7GTB which is frosted on the glass, its got gray plates and a black base. Its pretty nice actually, not as bright as my sylvania 6SN7GTB..but fits nicely with my 701s. Alittle warmth is what they need for sure.


----------



## kelim

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's one for the hardcore tubeheads... Make your own Triode tube: Video Fabrication d'une lampe triode_

 

Wow, that was a great video. Thanks, manx.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Nick: Glad that you're back and feeling better. Good to have you "home".

 Chris


----------



## SoFlaChris

Dom: I'm in Boynton Beach. If you want to check out the tube that Nick sold me, I still have it.


----------



## Dominat0r

hey man, thanks...BB isnt that far i guess ehehe...im in Broward county. Let me know if you ever going to be in the area. 

 I found this tube in my tube box and didnt even know i had it. I remember getting a few tubes from jp0141 from a while ago. I completely forgot about them. Here is a pic...i dunno what it is actually.


----------



## nick20

Hey Dom, can you resize the picture please?


 It looks like a "Telefunken" tube.. BTW. And I never knew they made 6080's before.


----------



## Dominat0r

you want it smaller or larger?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you want it smaller or larger?_

 


 Small, LOL.


----------



## Dominat0r




----------



## nick20

Here you go:

6080 ¡oNO:6003 Telefunken 6080(6AS7) Âù¤T·¥¥\²vºÞ ¤@¼Ð¤@¹ï(¥þ·s«~) - ÅS¤Ñ©ç½æ--Â²³æ¡B¦nª±¡B§K¶O¡B¦w¥þ


 They were made in 1972, and seem to be a Japenese company, as that's the only language I find them in. 




 -Nick


----------



## Vaughn

I have been using the DV336i for a few months with my HD650's and love 
 the sound I am getting. 

 However, I will soon be receiving a pair of RS1's and am wondering if there is
 a tube combination that would work well with both of these very different sounding headphones.

 I am currently using a GE 6080 and Sylvania "chrome dome" 6SN7GT, which 
 sound infinitely better than the stock tubes.

 Any suggestions?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vaughn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been using the DV336i for a few months with my HD650's and love 
 the sound I am getting. 

 However, I will soon be receiving a pair of RS1's and am wondering if there is
 a tube combination that would work well with both of these very different sounding headphones.

 I am currently using a GE 6080 and Sylvania "chrome dome" 6SN7GT, which 
 sound infinitely better than the stock tubes.

 Any suggestions?_

 


 There are just too many variables to give you a "strict" guideline. However, I would recommend any of the tubes on this list + a RCA-JAN 6AS7 or a 5998 for the rear.


 Here's a "do-able" list to complete. Nothing to extreme in the price range, and they give extremely musical sound's.

Disclaimer: This is not a top ten lis...


 There's variables such as hearing sensitivity, cables, CDP, music, etc. etc. so there's "no must have" tube combinations for you, or anyone. "You 'gotta try 'em all..."

 I would suggest investing in a Tung-Sol 5998 or RCA-JAN 6AS7 for the rear tube, and one of the above ten as the front tube..



 Good luck,


 -Nick


----------



## Vaughn

thanks Nick,

 I will see what I can find. I tried to access the link you gave but
 it told me I don't have access.

 I mostly use an Ipod as a source but will be using a NAD 542 cdp once
 I get it repaired.

 Interconnects are all Blue jeans.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vaughn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks Nick,

 I will see what I can find. I tried to access the link you gave but
 it told me I don't have access.

 I mostly use an Ipod as a source but will be using a NAD 542 cdp once
 I get it repaired.

 Interconnects are all Blue jeans._

 



 Matt, I changed it to open access. See link below:


Disclaimer: This is not a top ten lis...


 Sorry about that..


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

Those appear to be re-badged GE tubes. You can tell by the pics that show a dot pattern and 'USA'.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here you go:

6080 ¡oNO:6003 Telefunken 6080(6AS7) Âù¤T·¥¥\²vºÞ ¤@¼Ð¤@¹ï(¥þ·s«~) - ÅS¤Ñ©ç½æ--Â²³æ¡B¦nª±¡B§K¶O¡B¦w¥þ


 They were made in 1972, and seem to be a Japenese company, as that's the only language I find them in._

 

Happy Listening!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *abs@nilenet.com* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those appear to be re-badged GE tubes. You can tell by the pics that show a dot pattern and 'USA'.



 Happy Listening!_

 


 Good observation! I only managed to get to the first picture, I never bothered to scroll any further down.


 They are likely a reissued GE, and if that's the case, are nothing to drool over, that's for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And they make for good "burn-in" tubes as well..


----------



## Skylab

Agreed, I have just never been able to appreciate the sound of the 6080. 

 I think the best starting place for 6AS7's is the RCA. They are cheap and plentiful, and sound great. Then people can branch out from there, or not, as desired 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually keep coming back to the RCA grey-plate halo-getter 6AS7g's...that's what I am using in my Darkvoice 337 -- so nice and lush sounding, but still with good bass and treble extension and detail. There are more detailed tubes, but I am not sure there are tubes that actually make music better


----------



## scchai

Hi, I am quite new to tube headphone amp. DV336i is the first tube amp i brought. But, look when i read through this topic, my 336i is very good amp! I still use the default tube that come with it and want to change to new tube. 

 1. I am not sure that are the difference between RCA 6SN7GT and RCA JAN 6SN7GT. 
 2. These are the picture that I got from ebay. Can anyone help me to confirm which one is the gray RCA 6SN7GT?









 Thank you,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Either tube will be loads better than what the 336i came with.

 The one on the bottom is a military issue JAN CRC 6SN7GT should be nice, sometimes more sought after than non-JAN CRC in the top photo. But, I have the JAN CRC CBS 6SN7GT which seems a little more clinical sounding based on how mine sounds (more like SS). I understand there are also JAN CRC RCA 6SN7GT that are not described as clinical or SS sounding here.

 Until I know from someone else, I would suspect the RCA on the top is more lush sounding. That is what Skylab recommends to people, in combo with an RCA 6AS7G in the rear, as a start.

 The thing is that both are a grey glass/smoked glass, and I think I read that they sound better than non-smoked? TIME FOR NICK TO STEP UP AND DECLARE ITS WORTHYNESS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I currently have a Sylvania clear VT-231 in the front, and it is very nice. Warm and lush, but with a more sharp high end than my Hytron 5692 Brownbase that is my second favorite.

 I have some grey glass sylvania 6SN7GT on the way and should be here this week, and I can compare them. We are hoping mine came off the same production line as the VT-231. I also have a pair of Hytron CBS 6SN7GT that are supposed to be really nice but I haven't listened yet.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Oh, and there is "grey glass" and "grey plates" out there. Initially everyone was recommending black plates on RCA tubes, but I am not sure there is a difference between black plate and grey plate.

 Anyone?


----------



## nick20

To me, both look the same (smoked glass RCA 6SN7). If you can confirm the top tube IS indeed smoked (gray) glass, that would be great.


 Larry, the "smoked glass" RCA 6SN7's have that "gray coloring" on the tube to shield EMI/RFI. See link:

EMI RFI Shielding Overview - Engineers Edge



 Rob recommends the basic black base (gray plate, I think) RCA 6SN7, not the smoked glass, as a *true* NOS sells for over $40 a piece, and up to $75 a piece.

 The smoked glass RCA 6SN7GT and smoked glass RCA VT-231 (military issued) are VERY likely to have come off the same production line at RCA, when I had both, I seemed to prefer the smoked glass RCA 6SN7GT over the smoked glass RCA VT-231; yes, there was a difference (for the better) in the 6SN7GT smoked glass. 

 Indeed, the smoked glass tubes, sound a hell of a lot better than the "basic" black base, gray plate (about $10 a piece) tubes, that's just my opinion. 

 Larry, in response to your last paragraph, do you mean "RCA" smoked glass, and not "Slyvania"? That's what I think you meant.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 And in response to your second reply, I _think_ you may be getting those mixed up. I am thinking you are getting confused with the gray/black plate RCA 6AS7's that have a good debate on them as well. It's more common for the gray plates to sound better, but the black plates cost more in the case of the RCA 6AS7G's..





 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Ooops, I had Sylvania on my mind after talking about my VT-231.

 I have two RCA 1950's grey glass 6SN7GT, same date codes, original boxes. on the way. Seller says they they were shipped from Canada right after "the Christmas holiday" and they said they'd get me tracking but that they should be here by this week.


----------



## scchai

Thank both of you. 
 It is getting more fun now.

 I think I will try to get them both and listen to it. In fact, the lower one is more expensive than the upper one.

 One more thing, what does JAN means?
 JAN is a brand of tube or it has other meaning? 
 What is difference between RCA JAN and RCA "non JAN"?

 Scchai.


----------



## nick20

JAN = Joint Army/Navy (aka Military issued)


----------



## Vaughn

to echo Nick20 a bit JAN or "joint Army/Navy" is a generally referred to
 as a milspec, or "military specification". In the electronic world, and elsewhere, this would signify a much more rugged device suitable to situations that might be life or death in nature(like listening to an excellent recording).


----------



## nick20

To add to the discussion, here's a little more info on them..


AudiogoN Forums: Tube myths Joint Army Navy vs Non Joint Army Navy


 11. What does "JAN" in a tube name mean?
 The JAN designation is found on many American made new old stock tubes, and stands for "Joint Army Navy". It means they were originally built for the military, often with improvements in their construction and quality control.





 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Also, here are some JAN Tube Designators:

 CHS = Sylvania
 CHY = Hytron/CBS
 CRP = Raytheon
 CTL = Tung Sol
 CRC = RCA
 CNU = National Union
 CKR = Ken-Rad or (later) GE
 CG = GE

 Chris


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vaughn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the electronic world, and elsewhere, this would signify a much more rugged device suitable to situations that might be life or death in nature(like listening to an excellent recording)._

 

So JAN tubes are the clear winner when you're listening to your 336 in an Abrams tank. Weaker tubes would soil their grids in battle. The JAN just keeps on grooving while that 155 is hammering the enemy to kingdom come.

_"When you absolutely, positively must enjoy your 336 in the heat of battle, specify JAN tubes"_





 Chris


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So JAN tubes are the clear winner when you're listening to your 336 in an Abrams tank. Weaker tubes would soil their grids in battle. The JAN just keeps on grooving while that 155 is hammering the enemy to kingdom come.

"When you absolutely, positively must enjoy your 336 in the heat of battle, specify JAN tubes"





 Chris_

 

haha...in the heat of battle always reach for the tube thats best.....Jan Tube, best dam war tube there is.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_haha...in the heat of battle always reach for the tube thats best.....Jan Tube, best dam war tube there is._

 

That's right, Dom. I see that you're down with it.


----------



## nick20

Hey guys, I picked up some really nice tubes lately. 


 Included, but not limited to:

 Sylvania 6SN7WGTA [NOS]

 Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231 [original box, NOS, matched pair]

 Raytheon 6SN7GT (almost identical to VT-231 version) [original box, NOS]

 Raytheon 6SN7GTB [original box, NOS]

 Ken Rad black-glass 6SN7GT VT-231 [original box, NOS]

 Ken Rad clear glass 6SN7GT [NOS]

 RCA smoked glass 6SN7GT [original box, NOS]



 I'll be posting some more impressions over the next few days..


 The one I'm most anxious to listen to is the Ken Rad black-glass VT-231. I've heard it's on par (or very close, with better bass) to the "Bad Boy", and National Union black-glass 6SN7GT.





 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

im curious to hear the ken rad clear glass over the black glass. Also the Sylvania 6SN7WGTA over my GTB. I have a black glass and really like it. Minus the hum of course, i got some of it gone....only really hear it when it warms up and even then my normal playing volume completely covers it. I still like the GE 6SN7GTB (white lettering) i have over them all. Its not as bright which is just what i want for my K701s. 

 I still need to get a new back tube, been using the RCA 6AS7G for a while now. I have a GE 6080, but its a tad to sterile to my ears. Might just be me though, to each his own.

 Nick, you coming to the meet here in may?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im curious to hear the ken rad clear glass over the black glass. Also the Sylvania 6SN7WGTA over my GTB. I have a black glass and really like it. Minus the hum of course, i got some of it gone....only really hear it when it warms up and even then my normal playing volume completely covers it. I still like the GE 6SN7GTB (white lettering) i have over them all. Its night as bright which is just what i want for my K701s. 

 I still need to get a new back tube, been using the RCA 6AS7G for a while now. I have a GE 6080, but its a tad to sterile to my ears. Might just be me though, to each his own.

 Nick, you coming to the meet here in may?_

 


 Dom, I'd like to go. However spending $150 to spend the night is a little costly. I may just drive up/drive down when it's done. However, it says May 3-4, so I'm wondering if there will be more stuff on the 4th.

 And by "night as bright", what exactly do you mean by this? I would put that Ken Rad black glass in, and throw that GE 6080 in the rear, and play your amp with that pink-noise I gave you 24/7 for 2 straight days. Then check on it after 48 hours. I'm willing to bet the "noise" is very close, if not completely gone. MY KR black-glass, is such an awesome tube, I couldn't imagine being without it. It's close, IMO to the performance of the "Bad-Boy", generally at a fraction of the cost (around $30-$40 a piece). These tubes also have very nice bass; by which I mean quantity AND quality are improved. It's a very detailed, and "airy" tube as well. This one is definitely a keeper..



 Dom, in regards to a better rear tube, contact Chris (SoFlaChris), or Rob (Skylab) and see if either is willing to sell their JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7, it's better than what you're using right now, I promise. 






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Nick, I too will be interested to hear your impressions of both Ken-Rad tubes. I would like to score one of each of those (clear and black glass). I have a black-glass and clear glass Ken Rad 6SL7 (VT229) and they both sound terrific.

 And HighLife, I do happen to have JAN-CRC 6AS7G's for sale right now, FWIW.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick, I too will be interested to hear your impressions of both Ken-Rad tubes. I would like to score one of each of those (clear and black glass). I have a black-glass and clear glass Ken Rad 6SL7 (VT229) and they both sound terrific.

 And HighLife, I do happen to have JAN-CRC 6AS7G's for sale right now, FWIW._

 


 Rob, I'll be doing more listening next week, as I just ordered 4 new MFSL CD's (Santana, Rush, Natalie Merchant, Allman Brothers) and they will be here Monday.

 This is what one wrote about the Ken Rad's:

_*Bass champs.* The treble may not be the most refined, but both the clear and black glass versions provide world-class bass performance married with a sweet and seductive midrange. _

 I can echo this, but I've only heard the black-glass, ATM. I'll be doing 2-3-4 days stints per tube, so I can listen to various albums. I can say, if you would like to improve your bass on any headphone, this tube is a MUST-HAVE! IMO, the bass is slightly more detailed, crisp, and tight. It has better bass quantity AND quality. However one's mileage may vary, as we all know..





 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Here's a quick picture of my current setup.. I was taking a few pictures of tubes and CD's I'm selling, so I thought I'd snap a quick photo of my "rig". It's well over $1000 all together, and is my prize and joy, obviously.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's not the best photo, but you get the idea.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

MoFi rules!

 I cant wait for Santana Abraxas.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MoFi rules!

 I cant wait for Santana Abraxas._

 

Hellz ya they do.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Chris, would you like to sample my "Bad-Boy" tube? If so, please PM me.


----------



## nick20

Joe, I have not heard from you about the TS-5998. How do you like it, now that you've had it for some time..





 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dom, I'd like to go. However spending $150 to spend the night is a little costly. I may just drive up/drive down when it's done. However, it says May 3-4, so I'm wondering if there will be more stuff on the 4th.

 And by "night as bright", what exactly do you mean by this? I would put that Ken Rad black glass in, and throw that GE 6080 in the rear, and play your amp with that pink-noise I gave you 24/7 for 2 straight days. Then check on it after 48 hours. I'm willing to bet the "noise" is very close, if not completely gone. MY KR black-glass, is such an awesome tube, I couldn't imagine being without it. It's close, IMO to the performance of the "Bad-Boy", generally at a fraction of the cost (around $30-$40 a piece). These tubes also have very nice bass; by which I mean quantity AND quality are improved. It's a very detailed, and "airy" tube as well. This one is definitely a keeper..



 Dom, in regards to a better rear tube, contact Chris (SoFlaChris), or Rob (Skylab) and see if either is willing to sell their JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7, it's better than what you're using right now, I promise. 






 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I meant, not as bright....the Sylvania i have is very sharp sounding...too much for the 701s. However, really nice for my 580s. Ill have to get some new tubes soon.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's a quick picture of my current setup.. I was taking a few pictures of tubes and CD's I'm selling, so I thought I'd snap a quick photo of my "rig". It's well over $1000 all together, and is my prize and joy, obviously.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's not the best photo, but you get the idea.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	













 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I demand that you take a better pic of that....you just not doing all that sound goodness justice by showing them all blurry. Try more light, try a flash....try a new camera =) Never put baby in the corner.!!!

 BTW, i dont stay at the hotel myself since im about 25mins from the place itself. However, you can drive up in the morning and we dont normally break till like 12-1am, somtimes even later. If you want to get here REALLY early that day, ill meet you for breakfast around that area and show you were it is.


----------



## xchagg

Wow.... got the JAN-CTL 5998 today and popped them in... sounded like the time I tried a Millet Hybrid Portable with my Ety-4's

 The seperation and layering of instruments, and the texture is amazing - E.g. the fugues in the last mvt. of Mozart's 41st symphony never sounded so distinct. Also, there is a bite to bass notes that is very addictive.

 And as a bonus, the 5998 was dead quiet from the start, no burn in required.

 Even bigger bonus, it only cost $25 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 5998 was paired up with a 1940s Raytheon 6SN7GT. 

 On a side note, is it just me or does the DV run a little cooler with a 5998?


----------



## nick20

Dom, here you go..






 (tape mod; I can't STAND the blue LED light; and no, the cones are straight, the volume knob is not centered, and the cones look off centered, however they are not.)






 (It's difficult to snap photos of the chrome, and LCD..)


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xchagg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow.... got the JAN-CTL 5998 today and popped them in... sounded like the time I tried a Millet Hybrid Portable with my Ety-4's

 The seperation and layering of instruments, and the texture is amazing - E.g. the fugues in the last mvt. of Mozart's 41st symphony never sounded so distinct. Also, there is a bite to bass notes that is very addictive.

 And as a bonus, the 5998 was dead quiet from the start, no burn in required.

 Even bigger bonus, it only cost $25 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 5998 was paired up with a 1940s Raytheon 6SN7GT. 

 On a side note, is it just me or does the DV run a little cooler with a 5998?_

 


 Mmm.. 5998's.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad you're satisfied.. I am not "hyping" up this tube. There is no "hype", all one has to do is TRY this tube for the first time.. and the rest is history. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 5998 can be paired with anything.. but I am enjoying my "Bad-Boy" and KR black-glass a LOT! I have new tubes, but it's hard to let go.. 


 In regards to the DV running cooler, I doubt it. I think the 5998 runs a little hotter, however I never touch them anyways, so I wouldn't know..






 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dom, here you go..
_

 



 There you go...HAWTNESS....get a tripod or a table-chair-stand at eye level and take a nice night shot with the lights off and the lights on the devices on. Do a nice long shutter time....like over 5 second. 

 you have stabilizers on your DV? i can see it for your CDP...but just curious as to why you have them under you amp? 

 Really nice setup btw....those 225 look like they enjoying their new home hehe.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There you go...HAWTNESS....get a tripod or a table-chair-stand at eye level and take a nice night shot with the lights off and the lights on the devices on. Do a nice long shutter time....like over 5 second. 

 you have stabilizers on your DV? i can see it for your CDP...but just curious as to why you have them under you amp? 

 Really nice setup btw....those 225 look like they enjoying their new home hehe._

 


 I'm not into photography.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a cheap $50 digital camera.. I don't take pictures of much anymore, except tubes, CD's, and headphones. 


 By stabilizers, what do you mean? I'm not sure I understand.. 

 It's a beautiful setup. Extremely detailed, airy and warm setup. I am digging it.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now, I need better headphones to compliment my new addition (CDP) I got last week. 





 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

the stands you have your amp on...then they on the wood blocks.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the stands you have your amp on...then they on the wood blocks._

 


 Sorry Dom, I'm still not following.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can you be a little more specific?



 The "things" you see on my CDP, are actually metal feet, that the amp normally sits on, but I've placed some very large brass cones underneath each component. 

 I have small myrtlewood blocks under the cones, because myrtlewood is a good wood to absorb vibrations and excess energy.


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, I have not heard from you about the TS-5998. How do you like it, now that you've had it for some time...-Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Nick - 

 I was able to audition the 5998 with my Sylvania SN7GTB in the front for a few hours last weekend. I liked what I heard. Both tubes are dead quiet. Sunday I came down with the flu and have been trying to recover from that ever since. Hopefully I will be feeling better and can give it another try this weekend.

 I'm still in the market for a killer tube for the front slot. I am pretty happy with the Sylvania but would like something more 'premium'.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Here's my humble little setup:






 I know, I know... But I didn't want to break out the tripod. This coming from a freelance photographer.


----------



## nick20

Very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How's that Shanling treating you?






 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Thanks. I love it. Very quiet and crispy clear.

 I'll reach out to you soon on the tube audition offer. Too much travel, right now.

 Chris


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I love it. Very quiet and crispy clear.

 I'll reach out to you soon on the tube audition offer. Too much travel, right now.

 Chris_

 


 Gotcha Chris. I'm glad you like it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks pretty interesting, however I'm extremely pleased with E5. 

 I wasn't sure if you still were traveling.. so I'd thought I'd ask.





 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

dam you both better be coming to the meet...i want to hear both your CDPs haha.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dam you both better be coming to the meet...i want to hear both your CDPs haha._

 


 If you click the link in my signature; Eastsound E5, you can read a little bit about it. 

 They're some-what rare in the US, and rarely come up for sale. An extremely solid CDP for the money, that's for sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

if you guys want to share a room....ill hang out saturday night all night. I dunno if you can afford it or not, i guess it would help if you want to try and make it down nick. I live like 25mins from the place, but dont mind hanging out ....spare me the trouble of packing and moving in 1 night hehee.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you guys want to share a room....ill hang out saturday night all night. I dunno if you can afford it or not, i guess it would help if you want to try and make it down nick. I live like 25mins from the place, but dont mind hanging out ....spare me the trouble of packing and moving in 1 night hehee._

 


 I've considered it. Before making a committment, I'll have to think about it, and get off of work. 

 I'll PM you sometime next month or so, if I decide to go. Do you know if the "Can Jam" is 2 days long? I know a lot of stuff is going down on the 3rd, but how about the 4th? I'd only be able to afford one night, as I have a V8 in my car, and it's going to cost me a pretty penny to drive up there. It's about 250 miles from here, each way, if I remember the mapquest correctly.






 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

ya, you close to Disney? takes me about 3 hours to make it from here....im just a tad farther north of where we meeting. 

 Up to you, thought i would offer to at least let you be able to make it. Its going to be awesome man, check out the pics of the florida meet in Fort Lauderdale....i went to that and hung out all day and night....went to sushi place that Tyrion and i both LOVE. Im for sure going to get dinner there on this meet...im sure Ty will be down.

 Soflachris can get into it to, make it even cheaper =)


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Soflachris can get into it to, make it even cheaper =)_

 

I'm down for the show all day on Saturday, then sushi afterwards. After that, I'm heading back up to Boynton.

 I can do all that I need to do in only one day. Besides, I can only spend one day staring at a bunch of dudes.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm down for the show all day on Saturday, then sushi afterwards. After that, I'm heading back up to Boynton.

 I can do all that I need to do in only one day. Besides, I can only spend one day staring at a bunch of dudes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Well then, are you down for some stripper hunting? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 -Nick


----------



## SoFlaChris

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well then, are you down for some stripper hunting? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'll pass. Strippers don't do it for me... Always felt like a chump when I left the club. Hell, when you reach my age, you'll find that 25-30 of those singles pay better dividends from a new MoFi CD than some skank swinging on a pole.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SoFlaChris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll pass. Strippers don't do it for me... Always felt like a chump when I left the club. Hell, when you reach my age, you'll find that 25-30 of those singles pay better dividends from a new MoFi CD than some skank swinging on a pole.




_

 


 It's a joke Chris.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not even old enough to go to a strip club..





 -Nick


----------



## Dominat0r

haha....nice


----------



## SoFlaChris

No prob... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's a joke Chris.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not even old enough to go to a strip club..

 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Nick, the bad boy and 5998 arrived today.

 I know I was supposed to rush to my 336i and try them right away, but I'll have to do it tomorrow when I have time. I'm like the other 45 year old gezers here that are patient and can wait a day, unlike you young whipper snappers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Okay, I broke down after I typed that, and popped in the 5998 after listening to the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G that was in there. 

 I'm using my APS recabled D2000 and Sony D-303 CDP optical out into iBasso D1 as DAC only, then into 336i. I left the Sylvania VT-231 in the front so the only change was the 5998 at first. I am using my Tsuyoshi Yamamoto "autumn in seattle" hybrid SACD "direct to DSD two track recording" as program material, but in my regular CD player.

 Initial impression was 5998 is 3-4db louder than the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G, and seemed to get a little muddy with the piano music I had running. After 15 minutes of warmup it had cleared up. So, it seems more sensitive to running cold than the JAN which can sound good cold, and even better warm. Other than the greater gain/volume, it wasn't a whole lot different from the JAN - but that is just from trying 1-2 songs late at night before bed. 

 I then left the warm 5998 in the 336i to then see what changing the front tube did. I popped in the "bad boy" after listening to the Sylvania VT-231 that I had in there. Soundstage immediately opened up a lot, and detail became finer. Almost like there is more "separation of different instruments into individual instruments rather than a conglomeration of sounds" being the best way for me to describe the change. It didn't get too distant sounding like some wide soundstage opamps do in my other amps. Bass isn't pounding but rather has more texture and definition. As it warms up there is a slight increase in bass and spaciousness or air.

 However, I do have a hum when I installed the bad boy, R > L. I don't know if it is from traveling from sea-level Florida to 6,600 feet with 10-30 degree weather and snow. Disconnecting the amp from the DAC makes no change in hum. I am going to let it run-in overnight and listen again in the morning. In the 15-20 additional minutes that I have been listening, the hum has already dropped 2-3db or so.

 The Hytron 5692 brown-base has always been totally silent. The Raytheon 6SN7xxx became totally black-silent with <24 hours burn-in, while the Sylvania VT-231 has never gone totally silent - although VT-231 took 36 hours to get 98% quiet and is now 99% quiet after a week or two (I forget without looking at my postings here).

 If this quiets up like I expect, I will be leaving these tubes in the 336i.

 Thanks Nick!


----------



## nick20

Larry, I double checked the "noise" before shipping it to you, and if there is any noise, I let you know before hand, and I take care of it before shipping tubes. I never ship a tube that has "noise". If it's "noiseless" when I test it, I go ahead and ship it, if it HAS "noise", I tell you before hand, and take care of it before shipping. I know many, don't have the patience to "burn-in" the problems, so I double check always, before sending anything out. 

 I'd advise to you let the 5998 warmup for 15-20 minutes before giving a good listen. It really sounds significantly better after it warms up. 

 Larry, if anything, just play some pink-noise 24/7 for a day or two. I know it will clear up. Again, I apologize for this, but if I can hear ANY "noise" I let the buyer know before shipping, and offer to rid the "noise" before shipping. If there's anything else I can do for you, PLEASE let me know. 

 I hope you really get a chance to do some critical listening, and get to hear what the 5998's REALLY have to offer. Rob and I swear by these tubes, as do the few owners who own them here, and _I_ personally wouldn't put anything else in the back. I'm set, and now I can focus on the front tubes.




 Talk to you soon..



 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Larry, I sent a PM to you in regards to the issue. 





 -Nick


----------



## Jo6Pak

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Larry, I'd advise to you let the 5998 warmup for 15-20 minutes before giving a good listen. It really sounds significantly better after it warms up._

 

Personally, I let my junk warm up for at least an hour before listening...


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, even known quiet tubes will sometimes hum slightly in my DV amp for about 10 minutes before they quiet back down.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jo6Pak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Personally, I let my junk warm up for at least an hour before listening..._

 

My post said that my testing included cold and then warm listening, and I did post about the improvement when warm. I just wanted to point out that the JAN CRC RCA will sound better cold than the 5998, but both sound good warm. In case anyone has gotten used to listening to the amp cold, and then gets a surprise when it sounds worse for the first 15 minutes.

 Once the 5998 was warmed up, then I was ready to test the Bad Boy. One change at a time. The Bad Boy made a much bigger improvement in the sound, as detailed above.

 The Bad Boy hum is 40-50% better already. Like I said, "if this quiets up, this will remain in the 336i" = that means I like it enough to make it my everyday tube selection if it gets quiet. I still have a nice Hytron 5692 brownbase and a nice Sylvania VT-231 to fall back on, but neither one is this open and detailed, with such separation of individual instruments in 3D space.

 (Interestingly, this is what my RSA Predator is sounding like this morning with somewhere near 400 hours on it, and that is with both using line out from my H140 and apple lossless AAC).

 Once the Bad Boy is silent, then I will try the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G with it, and see how it compares to the 5998. The front tube may impact how the rear sounds when trying different rears, and I haven't tried the RCA rear with the BB yet.


----------



## rivieraranch

With prices for the 6SN7 and its variants going insane, has anybody gone down the 7N7 or 12SN7 road?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With prices for the 6SN7 and its variants going insane, has anybody gone down the 7N7 or 12SN7 road?_

 


 Not all 6SN7's are "insanely" priced. There's only a handful I know that go over $100 a piece, and slightly more, hovering at $75-ish. MOST solid tubes are at/below $50 a piece. 

 I believe Skylab has tried the 7N7's, maybe he will pop in with a further comment. Member "Mazuki" sells the adapters for about $30 a piece. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of 7N7's for sale. I found about 15 on eBay..

 And maybe Mike (Negatron) will pop in to give us more insightful info on how the tubes will work in our amps.


_The 6SN7 has a 6.3 V 600mA heater/filament. The 12 volt filament equivalent is the 12SN7GT or 12SN7GTA. (12.6V 300mA filament) There was also a comparatively rare 8SN7 (8.4V@450mA filament intended for 450mA series string TV sets)

 Numerous other variations on the 6SN7 type have been offered over the years, including 7N7 (Sylvania 1940, loktal-base version), 5692 (RCA 1948, a super-premium version with guaranteed 10,000 hour lifetime), 12SX7 (RCA 1946, intended for use in 26-volt aircraft electronics), 1633 (RCA 1941, also for 26-v radios), 6042 (1951, another 1633 type), and 6180 (1952). American military designator for the 6SN7GA was VT-231, and the British called it CV1986 or CV1988. European designators include ECC32, 13D2 and B65. Each of the giant SAGE computer systems used hundreds of 5692s as flip-flops._


 I would think these tubes don't respond well in our amps, because a normal 6SN7 is 6V, and a 12SN7 is 12V. However, I don't know a whole lot about how voltage effects tubes.. But the PPX3 Slam (I think) uses 6SN7's, and a few have tried the 7N7's in their amps.. Honestly, I would wait for someone like Mike or Rob to comment any further..



 -Nick


----------



## evanft

I just bought a set of RCA tubes from Skylab for $25. I'm eagerly anticipating their arrival.


----------



## nick20

I also forgot to mention, if you actually have time, and patience, you can get ANY tube for less than $75. 

 Of the 95% of the tubes I have, I didn't pay no more than $10 a piece for. But I have the time and patience to wait for the right deal. Most people don't.

 The ONLY tubes I have, that I paid more than $10 a piece for is:


*true* NOS, original mint box, TS-5998 $55

*true* NOS, original mint box, Ken Rad 6SN7GT black glass $37 (can be had for less)
*true* NOS, original mint box, RCA 6SN7GT smoked glass $42 (can be had for less)
*true* NOS, original mint box, Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231 $35 a piece [I have two] (can be had for less)

 brown-base GE 6SN7GTB $15, very rare tube, no one know's what it is..


 As you can see, I am a collector of original boxes, and I value them highly. It makes tube "collecting", fun. IMO. I love hunting down tubes with original mint boxes. Again, IMO, no tube "collection" is complete without the original boxes. That's just my opinion.

 If you'd like to enjoy premium tubes, without such the premium price, PM me, and I'll see what I can do.


 This is the collection, in which I'm trying to complete. 

Disclaimer: This is not a top ten lis...

 I have completed half of it (5/10), and it's becoming more difficult to find the remaining tubes, in true NOS/like new condition, with original boxes, with a reasonable price tag, but it can be done, with time. I know it can.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 If I had to list all the deals I've scored under $10 a piece, it would take a whole 'nother reply.. And we're not talking junk here.. I'm talking about $75 a piece tubes, for $8.. etc. 


*Moral of the story:*

 Pay "market" price, if you must have now, or don't have the time/patience. Or, if you're willing to pay me for my time to look for "deals" for you (very resonable).

 Pay a much, much more resonable amount if you have time/patience. 




 Talk to you later..


 -Nick


----------



## abs@nilenet.com

The 7N7 and 7AF7 sound great in my 336FM. My favorite is the National Union 7N7 which is the equivalent of a Tung Sol 6SN7GT/VT231 with round plates. Any of the others would also be a good choice.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With prices for the 6SN7 and its variants going insane, has anybody gone down the 7N7 or 12SN7 road?_

 


 Happy Tube Rolling!


----------



## fallen dragon

What I'm using now wont win any prizes for novelty I guess, but this is really just to encourage the faint hearts like I was a few weeks ago.
 I was really happy with my 336i straight out of the box, stock tubes, with my venerable AKG 340's, everything was there, neutral and silent, sounded wider, deeper and more euphonic then the (surprisingly good) headphone socket on my Audiolab 8000Q pre, so I was happy.
 Then for Christmas came my new AKG 701's and the Darkvoice sounded lacklusture, nothing wrong, just very very ordinary, in fact now the Audiolab sounded better, way more control and delicacy.
 Some research and hunting on E Bay and for my first roll I came up with NOS's RCA 6AS7G, (black base, red printing), and Sylvania 6SN7GTB chrome tops.
 First reaction on the RCA (with stock front tube) was hugely more detailed, vast deep bass, but also very bright. This wore off after maybe 10 hours but left all the good points!
 Then with the Sylvania, again even more detail, but fabulous delicacy, incredible wide deep soundstage, initially though a fair amount of midrange glare but this lasted not more then an hour.
 What both also seem to have straight out of the box is inky blackness, they are utterly silent.
 With the 701's they make a killer combination and just make you want to listen all the time, The amp is improved out of all recognition (makes you realise just how good it is) and probably the best upgrade for the last cash I have ever had, but I have a Westinghouse Chatham 6AS7G arriving shortly..... oh dear....
 Cheers Guys
 Graham
 UK


----------



## Skylab

6SN7's are no longer $5 each, like many tubes are, to be sure. But I have scored terrific 6SN7's on EBay for less than $10. You just have to be patient, poke around, and do a little research.

 Recent awesome EBay score: I bought a mixed lot of 20 Sylvania tubes for $9.99, entirely because I wanted the vintage tube boxes. Most of the tubes were really odd types, which I just gave to my kids to play with. However, there were two 6SN7GTB Chrome Domes in there, which test better than NOS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . So I got those for $5 each, and the the boxes were free!

 Further, I regularly have tried to sell 6SN7's on head-fi for $10 each with no takers, so the prices are not that sky-high.

 W/r/t 7N7's, the issue there is you have to get or name loctal to octal adapters. Mazuki made me a nice pair, but that cost $65. And 7N7's are not better sounding, and while cheap, there are only a few kinds. So I'm not sure how much sense this route makes unless one is confident in making one's own adapters.


----------



## nick20

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs...7/#post3708049


----------



## rivieraranch

I am trying out a JAN HYTRON VT-231 and it is humming a little. These are supposed to be the unsung heros of the 6SN7 family. I suppose it will burn off after a while.


----------



## SoFlaChris

Yep... Just keep on using it. They tend to, IMO, take a little longer to lose the hum than most.


----------



## jona.p

Hey!

 I just got a Sylvania JAN 6080 WC and a Sylvania 6as7g from tubedepot.com. Got rid of the cracking noise I had with the stock chinese tube, both work fine. I feel that the 6as7g sounds slightly better then the 6080. The 6080 gets really really *hot* ! 
 Guess thats normal as I seem to recall someone mentioned they run really hot.

 My first 6sn7 replacement took almost a whole week to completely get rid of the hum with about 6 hours of daily use.


----------



## SoFlaChris

I too have seen the 6080 get very warm!


----------



## Skylab

You got a Sylvania 6AS7G from tube depot? Nice! I didn't think they carries US NOS 6AS7's.

 By the way, you can indeed get NOS Tung-Sol 5998's from AES (Antique Electronic Supply) for $29 - less than half of what used ones often sell for on EBay.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have a 336i that is prone to hum easily I guess. I have tubes that are clean to someone else that hum for me, maybe 25% of my tubes hummed when they didn't for someone else. This is with about 700 hours on the 336i.

*I have a Bad Boy, practically new, that hums for me but not for Nick20. If anyone is interested in buying it, PM me.* I am back to using an RCA grey glass in front, which sounds better than my Sylvania VT-231 or Hytron 5692, but not as good as the Bad Boy. I have a total of about $50 invested in the Bad Boy after shipping, and will listen to reasonable offers. I can not guarantee it wont hum, so bid accordingly because it will be yours once you buy it.


----------



## xchagg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, you can indeed get NOS Tung-Sol 5998's from AES (Antique Electronic Supply) for $29 - less than half of what used ones often sell for on EBay._

 

Hmm, I emailed them on Jan 15 asking if they had any TS 5598's and was told they had no stock.

 But since all 5998's were made by Tung-Sol (I think), they probably have TS made but not TS labelled 5998's.


----------



## Skylab

Well, they told me that's what they are sending me, and I asked specifically, so let's see...I should know in a few days...


----------



## xchagg

O.o, i think it is time to procure a spare/backup 5998


----------



## rivieraranch

Finally procured an RCA JAN CRC 6AS7, along with a lot of 3 civilian RCA 6AS7G coke bottles and 6 GE 6AS7G regular bottles. 

 The JAN tube is an oldie, silver print, from the early '50's. I put it in the amplifier last night and it added to the hum from the JAN HYTRON 6SN7 that was already in the front. I left this combo on for a few hours and when I returned the hum was greatly diminished.


----------



## Brewmaster

I picked up a pair of RCA Smoked/Grey glass VT-231's recently.

 Overall a fantastic sounding tube. I had previously written off RCA from some GTB's I had that just didn't do it for me. The smoked glass tubes have significantly better highs and just feel more musical and more balanced than the GTB's I had.

 I think this may replace my previous favorite tube which was a brown base Sylvania JAN 6SN7WGTA with black parallel plates with 3 holes similar to what the Bad Boys have. In general I actually prefer the Sylvania as the high's just seem more natural especially with vocals. What I like about the RCA is the lower frequencies are a bit fuller and the slightly rolled off highs are a bit more forgiving than the Sylvania with some tracks. The Sylvania is very revealing which can manifest as fatiguing brightness on some tracks that are poorly recorded/mastered. I'll probably keep the RCA in as my day to day tube, and pop in the Sylvania when I just need to hear well recorded vocals as they should be.

 TS5998 in the back for all tests.

 P.S. It took about 36 hours to burn the hum out of these tubes.


----------



## jona.p

I'd like to go in on that offer HeadphoneAddict, but I'm moving soon and I need all the cash I can find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 6as7g still sounds great, didn't change really that much after time, maybe slightly. Sounded pretty much great right from the start :>.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs...7/#post3708049_

 

I sent you a personal message; I have not received the tubes yet. Pls. advise.


----------



## fl00r

Sorry for bumping in to this thread, but since you guys are the Darkvoice-tube-rolling-guru's I have a question: for my K701's I sort-of decided to go for the Darkvoice amp. The only question left is which one to choose: DV332 or DV336? From what I read the 332 is more analytical while the 336 has a warmer sound. Would you think that the 336 is the better choice if I want some more and extended bass coming out of the K701's? Or can I tweak the sound on both the 332 and 336 to my liking with tube-rolling?

 Thanks!

 Ben


----------



## jona.p

I think Darkvoice will release new versions of their amps soon.

 Judging from things I've read about the 332 I think you can tweak both pretty much to your liking. I have never heard the 332 though, so not talking out of experience.


----------



## Wil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for bumping in to this thread, but since you guys are the Darkvoice-tube-rolling-guru's I have a question: for my K701's I sort-of decided to go for the Darkvoice amp. The only question left is which one to choose: DV332 or DV336? From what I read the 332 is more analytical while the 336 has a warmer sound. Would you think that the 336 is the better choice if I want some more and extended bass coming out of the K701's? Or can I tweak the sound on both the 332 and 336 to my liking with tube-rolling?

 Thanks!

 Ben_

 

I have heard the 332 and 336 and while both of them have the same sonic signature, the 336 is distinctly "lusher", i.e. more "tubish" as compared to the 332 which is cleaner sounding and perhaps a tad more solid-state-esque. I like the 336 because there are tons of 6sn7/6as7 tubes out there to change the sound to your liking. The 332 is perhaps more limited in tube choices, but both of them are nice amps.

 I would think that the warm tone of the 336+ the K701s would be a nice match, but YYMV.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_......

 I would think that the warm tone of the 336+ the K701s would be a nice match, but YYMV._

 

Do you mean right out of the box? Or do I need to get some warm tubes as well?


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean right out of the box? Or do I need to get some warm tubes as well?_

 

I would replace the stock tubes right away, they are ok, but that is it.


----------



## howlndog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...the only question left is which one to choose: DV332 or DV336?_

 

Ben,

 I have the 336i and the AKG 701. IMHO, I think the pairing sounds very good. As others have already said, replacing the factory tubes can make a significant improvement (although it's still wonderful right out of the box)... good luck.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *howlndog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ben,

 I have the 336i and the AKG 701. IMHO, I think the pairing sounds very good. As others have already said, replacing the factory tubes can make a significant improvement (although it's still wonderful right out of the box)... good luck._

 

Aaahh! At last, a K701 owner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks man!
 Tell me all about the 336i and AKG synergy and win me over


----------



## howlndog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tell me all about the 336i and AKG synergy and win me over_

 

I wouldn't want to embarrass myself trying to describe the sound. But what I will say is that there are details in the music I had never heard before now... even the bass has impact, when appropriate. If I had to sum it up in just a few words... it would be: smooth, spacious, and detailed. If you like jazz... wow!


----------



## Skylab

I got my 5998 tube order from Antique Electronic Supply today. I ordered 2 tubes. I got a JAN-CTL Tung-Sol 5998, and a Chatham 5998 (which were made by Tung-Sol). They have the identical plate structure, but the Chatham is bottom-getter, and the Tung-Sol is top-getter. Still, these are true NOS Tung Dol 5998's for $29 each! Get 'em while you can...


----------



## xchagg

Picked this tube up used on Ebay for $5.50 (+shipping). 

 Although it doesn't have any markings on the base, it should be the same as other WGTA's with labels on the base but no etch markings on the glass itself, right?

 As for the sound, I'm already preferring it compared to the Raytheon 6SN7GT. The highs are a bit more extended and the detail retrieval of this tube is excellent- nice lively tube. I suspect the Raytheon is softer/warmer than the Sylvania WGTA, which made the Senn 650 sound too euphonic. Imo, a very nice tube to pair with the Senn 650s. 

 Compared with a Sylvania 6SN7GTB with triangular plates, the GTB has rather strident highs, which was very apparent on bright recordings. The WGTA doesn't have this issue apparently 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rear tube is a TS JAN 5998.


----------



## Skylab

That is a VERY nice tube! Almost 100% sure it's a Sylvania.


----------



## rivieraranch

You can see the Sylvania "S" on the tube. Possibly could have been rejected by the military, no markings on base.


----------



## Brewmaster

Great find. Those tubes usually go for a good chunk more.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

No takers on my Bad Boy yet?


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No takers on my Bad Boy yet?_

 

Lare:

 Did it have any hum or was that one that was burned off good. How much were you asking for it?


----------



## rivieraranch

I am settling on, at least for me, the best tube combination; a JAN SYLVANIA 6080 in the rear and either an RCA smoked glass VT-231, RCA 5692 or early SYLVANIA (6SN7G; GTA) in front. 

 The 6080 has a higher _moo_ than the 6AS7G. I hear that in the bass and the music has a good punch. 

 Moreover, the 6080 tubes are cheap as spit and plentiful. I only regret that they don't have that Coca Cola bottle look.

 The 6SN7 Sylvanias, too are plentiful.


----------



## Skylab

6080 tubes do represent a tremendous value. While I prefer the other dual-triode power tubes sonically, and I also prefer the "ST" (coke bottle) shape, the 6080 will clearly be preferable for people with warmer headphones, and since you can buy them easily for $5 each, they are THE way to go for the budget conscious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kinda like the CBS 6SN7GT - much cheaper than the "sexier" brands, and darn fine sounding.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lare:

 Did it have any hum or was that one that was burned off good. How much were you asking for it?_

 

I sent Nick the one I burned off, because it was only 95% quiet, while silent for him. He sent me another, but it is harder to burn off than the first. I wanted to use my amp so I stopped burning off the second Bad Boy and contacted Nick. But, he did say he would be unavailable for a while, so I haven't heard back from him in a week. Both tubes were quiet for him, and I would take $30 shipped for this one.


----------



## Brewmaster

I also really like the JAN Sylvania 6080. I do miss the ST shape, but it is a great tube.

 I'm going to throw mine back in once I'm sure I've given the TS 5998 a good run and can go back and give them a fair comparison.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am settling on, at least for me, the best tube combination; a JAN SYLVANIA 6080 in the rear and either an RCA smoked glass VT-231, RCA 5692 or early SYLVANIA (6SN7G; GTA) in front. 

 The 6080 has a higher moo than the 6AS7G. I hear that in the bass and the music has a good punch. 

 Moreover, the 6080 tubes are cheap as spit and plentiful. I only regret that they don't have that Coca Cola bottle look.

 The 6SN7 Sylvanias, too are plentiful._


----------



## rivieraranch

For tonight it is JAN SYLVANIA 6080 & RCA VT-231 smoked glass.


----------



## jona.p

Heh, yeah it's a nice tube however I prefer the 6AS7G Sylvania over the JAN 6080 WC.

 I wish I had better phones and a better source;p.


----------



## mmuse

Ok. Finally got a decent headamp for my collections of Cans. 

 For those still using the original tubes that came with DV336i, you are missing out a ton. Any untrained ears can hear the difference when you change the originals out. I have mine with "Bad Boy" 6SN7GT + 5998 (the Nick20 setup), and I was clearly blown away. 

 It brightens the mid/low heavy (dark~) HD650 10 fold, and widen the sound stage. HD650 is a completely different beast with the "Bad Boy" and 5998 compared to the original tubes. 

 It didn't do too much to the SR325 though. I was a little disappointed by that. Maybe SR325 is bright already, and really didn't need any help to shown that.

 I haven't try it with the king of high/mid K701 yet (I'll do that next week). Can't wait to see what these tubes will transform the K701.

 For those who have been reading this thread and haven't act on it, do yourself a favor. Go to ebay and spend $50 on tubes. You will be surprised!!!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Anyone need a Bad Boy? PM me...


----------



## scchai

Hi Larry,

 I really need a bad boy. How much you will ask for, including shipment to Thailand? Please Email me the answer.

 My Email address is lek.surachai@gmail.com

 If you have the picture of the tube, please also Email me. After reading many article, I am quite confuse that is the real Bad Boy looked like.

 Thank.

 Scchai


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have someone else interested (fallen dragon) in the tube in the UK, who is in the hospital after an accidient. I am waiting for him to get back to me about it.

 I wish him all the best in a speedy recovery! His user name certainly is appropriate at this time.


----------



## scchai

Hi Larry,

 High quality tube is alway wanted! Anyway, I will wait. Please spare this one for me if fallen dragon do not want it.

 I also wish him back as normal a.s.a.p. All audiophiles are friend!


----------



## Brewmaster

Hi,
 I just recieved a couple of Sylvania 6AS7G's, and noticed that both had a somewhat smoky appearance to the glass, more pronounced towards the bottom.

 Is this normal for these tubes, or a sign of age?


----------



## Skylab

If that Sylvania has bottom-getters, then flashing at the bottom would be normal.


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If that Sylvania has bottom-getters, then flashing at the bottom would be normal._

 

I don't see any getters at the bottom. It's a very light smoke colour, almost like the glass has a mild tint to it.


----------



## Skylab

I've never seen that in the several dozen 6AS7G's I have.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Skylab, I like that you still frequent this thread, having sold your DV336i out from under me a while back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seriously though - what were your impressions of the 336i sound with good high-end tubes installed, right up to the point you decided to sell it?

 I am still impressed by what this amp delivers, for under $400 after shipping and some nice tubes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *scchai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Larry,

 High quality tube is alway wanted! Anyway, I will wait. Please spare this one for me if fallen dragon do not want it.

 I also wish him back as normal a.s.a.p. All audiophiles are friend!_

 

If you still want the Bad Boy, at your own risk in case it hums for you, it is yours for $55 total via paypal if shipped to a confirmed paypal address. This includes Priority Mail International shipping and insured for $55. PM me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, I like that you still frequent this thread, having sold your DV336i out from under me a while back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though - what were your impressions of the 336i sound with good high-end tubes installed, right up to the point you decided to sell it?

 I am still impressed by what this amp delivers, for under $400 after shipping and some nice tubes._

 

The 336i is a great amp for the money. So good, in fact, that it makes one really take pause in spending any more money. While I think the DV337 is quite noticably better, it's 2x the price. I would still unhesitatingly recommend the 336i to anyone.

 I mainly follow this thread still because I use another amp that uses the same tubes, and I like to read other people's experiences with them.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

See, it's the "quite noticably better" statement that makes me "really take pause" in my idea that I don't need to spend any more money. The opposite of intended may happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, now (either here or in PM) please tell me what makes the 337 better? Bass/Mids/Highs? Soundstage? Driving Power? No, better yet, I know you have it in you to do a NEW REVIEW THREAD on the 337 vs Single Power vs WA2 vs Ming Da. If you don't do a new thread, you have to send me that London Souvenir, or at least sew up my little red predator bag that came apart while you had it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No wait, I don't know what will happen to my wallet after I read all that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just tell me I don't need nothing but 336i and you are off the hook.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No wait, I don't know what will happen to my wallet after I read all that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just tell me I don't need nothing but 336i and you are off the hook._

 

Very wise, you are a strong man


----------



## Skylab

Be happy with the 336i. To start down the 337 path is to go crazy


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be happy with the 336i. To start down the 337 path is to go crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, I needed that.

 Oh. Did I tell you I bought an Apogee mini-DAC with balanced outputs last week, and Alex is sending me an 8 foot APS v3 balanced cable for the HD600 to run right from the Apogee XLR? Maybe I already went crazy.


----------



## rivieraranch

I was grazing around on Ebay the other night when I noticed a listing for a sole Sylvania 6SN7GT, But It Now for $8.98. The fuzzy photograph revealed a long bottle Sylvania with 3-hole T plates. I compared the photo to the photograph of a Sylvania "Bad Boy" from page 62 of this thread and it appeared to be one. I decided to go ahead and buy it. 

 The tube arrived this afternoon. Besides the guide pin being broken off, it is in decent conditon. It has faded green print, but the date 52nd week of 1951 is still readable. It tested out at 2750/2800 of 3000. I popped it into the Darkvoice to try it out. Other than a mild right channel hum that subsided completely within an hour it performed fine. 

 This has proven a good way for a good boy like me to try an infamous 1952 Sylvania "Bad Boy" tube. The sound is right on par with the CBS 5692 I have used in there.


----------



## Brewmaster

Damn, I now have too many variables to deal with.

 I recently upgraded my soundcard from an AV-710 to an Auzentch Prelude. At first I thought I liked the Auzentech better, more transparent, better detail... however recently I've started to find the combo with the AKG 701's a bit too detailed and harsh. Sounds great on well recorded music, but no forgiveness on poorly recorded songs.

 I've been running either a TS 5998 or Sylvania 6AS7G in the back and either the Sylvania 6sn7wgta or RCA VT-231 in the front.

 Swapped in an RCA 6AS7 (which had never done it for me previously) in the back tonight and the balance seems much better with the new soundcard. Not quite as detailed, but overall a more balanced and listenable sound over a variety of music.

 Now if I could just get my Opus DAC finished I would have another variable to play with.


----------



## ElephantTLK

So i have Darkvoice 336i & want to change stock tubes. What is best combination? Wich tube for back & wich tube for front one? And where in the Europe can i get them?


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElephantTLK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i have Darkvoice 336i & want to change stock tubes. What is best combination? Wich tube for back & wich tube for front one? And where in the Europe can i get them?_

 

We can't tell you which tubes *are* the best because it's a matter of personal taste and budget. But start by reading this thread for some guidelines.


----------



## magnetiq

@brewmaster

 that's the only problem with high-end soundcards, they tend to make most compressed music sound like poo lol.

 nice thread guys keep it up, going to get a 332 soon


----------



## Brewmaster

I think it's also a lack of synergy with the 701's. I just built an Opus DAC, and wow it just sounds amazing. None of the harshness and fatigue I was noticing with the Auzentech Prelude. I think in hindsight when I was running everything from my AV710 it was even better to my ears than the Prelude. I was really suprised to notice that much of a difference when changing source from a good quality soundcard.

 I'm not sure if it's actually the difference in the DAC chips (AK4396VF vs WM8740), or in the overall implementation, but the synergy with the 701's is amazing. I spent a fair bit of time tube rolling to try and find a happy place with the 701's and the Prelude, but the DAC upgrade made all the world of difference.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@brewmaster

 that's the only problem with high-end soundcards, they tend to make most compressed music sound like poo lol.

 nice thread guys keep it up, going to get a 332 soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## magnetiq

yeah it could be, my chose the xonar because from a numerous reviews it seemed it was the most musical, it has burr-browns dacs so I think i know what you mean.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElephantTLK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i have Darkvoice 336i & want to change stock tubes. What is best combination? Wich tube for back & wich tube for front one? And where in the Europe can i get them?_

 

eBay has been my main source.

 I will typically use either a JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G, or Tung Sol 5998 in the rear, unless I need a more SS sound and less bass, then a Raytheon 6080 in the rear (but I don't use the 6080 anymore). The Tung Sol is just a little fuller and more efficient than the RCA, which is still quite good. These run $25-$50 depending on new vs used (usually NOS = New Old Stock).

 For the front I will rotate between an RCA Grey Glass VT-231 or a Sylvania VT-231, since my Sylvania Bad Boy hums. I found the Sylvania VT-231 to be less edgy with stock Ultrasone HFI-780, and just left it in there. My other top choice for the front is a Hytron Brown-base 5692. All the front tubes I mentioned run between $40-100 depending on used or new (usually NOS). Sometimes you find a deal for $10-20 from someone who doesn't know what they are selling.

 If you are looking to tame the bass a Raytheon 6SN7GT in the front might do the trick as well. For about $10.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eBay has been my main source.

 I will typically use either a JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G, or Tung Sol 5998 in the rear, unless I need a more SS sound and less bass, then a Raytheon 6080 in the rear (but I don't use the 6080 anymore). The Tung Sol is just a little fuller and more efficient than the RCA, which is still quite good. These run $25-$50 depending on new vs used (usually NOS = New Old Stock).

 For the front I will rotate between an RCA Grey Glass VT-231 or a Sylvania VT-231, since my Sylvania Bad Boy hums. I found the Sylvania VT-231 to be less edgy with stock Ultrasone HFI-780, and just left it in there. My other top choice for the front is a Hytron Brown-base 5692. All the front tubes I mentioned run between $40-100 depending on used or new (usually NOS). Sometimes you find a deal for $10-20 from someone who doesn't know what they are selling.

 If you are looking to tame the bass a Raytheon 6SN7GT in the front might do the trick as well. For about $10._

 

Is this the Bad Boy you are talking about?

 And is this a good deal?

 Thanks

 P.s.: on this page they are talking about the Bad Boy as well but which is the one to get?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fl00r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this the Bad Boy you are talking about?
_

 

NO! That auction is for a 6V6 - totally different tube.


----------



## fl00r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NO! That auction is for a 6V6 - totally different tube._

 

Any suggestions where to get a Bad Boy?


----------



## Skylab

Well, if you search "6SN7GT Bad Boy" you will see some on EBay. 

 The Bad Boy tends to be very expensive. Some people love them. I personally think there are a bunch of 6SN7 types that sound as good or better, and are much cheaper. The Ken-Rad VT-231 black glass, the RCA VT-231 grey glass, the Raytheon, CBS, Tung-Sol and Sylvania 6SN7WGT (all brown base) all sound at least as good, and are cheaper. The Bad Boy, the RCA Red Base 5692, and the Sylvania 6SN7W metal base are all very expensive, and all sound great, but aren't worth the extra jack, IMHO.


----------



## fl00r

Thank you very much for your answer Skylab!

 Gives me some food for thought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a couple of tubes marked WGTA and WGTB. What's the difference between the A and B type?


----------



## AS1

I found someone who was selling a huge list of tubes for little money. I picked a Sylvania, RCA and Tung-Sol, all 6SN7GT.
 I used a Sylvania 6SN7GTB for quite a while, to get a good impression of its sound. I'm convinced long term listening is the key to hearing differences.

 Last week, I changed it to the Sylvania 6SN7GT I bought.
 I'm impressed! The difference is bigger than I expected.
 The GTB was suffering a bit from thin sound, sometimes harsh. The GT brings refinement. Sounds fuller and more natural. Voices are even more stunning, which were already so good.
 The only minus is that highs are slightly recessed but for now I'm not bothered that much with it. Maybe the GTB is too bright, who knows.

 I was secretly hoping that it would be a 'Bad boy' but it has only two holes.
 Nevertheless, I'm very pleased with it. I'll use it for a few months and then try the RCA and TS.


----------



## Dominat0r

still going through the process of finding a good combo for my new 650s...what are you 650s/DV336i people using?

 I have a kenrad black glass, which has a slight hum to it...however, with enough volume you can cover it up. 

 I also have GE 6SN7GTB (gray plates, mirrored frosted on side)which sounded great with my 701s. It actually gave it a tad more bass..however with my 650s the bass sound bloated. 

 So now im using RCA 6SN7GTB which gives it a tad more richer sound without the bass bloat...but since the 650s are dark to begin with, im looking for something to brighten it up for my jazz listening needs.

 As for the back, i have RCA 6AS7G Gray plate and a assortment of 6080s...1 Valco, 1 GE, 1 Telefunkin.....however, i know there isnt much difference with the sound with the rear tube...however...anything with alittle less bass and more mid-high?


----------



## Skylab

A 5998 in the back would give you a bit more of what you are looking for. For the front, try a Raytheon VT-231.


----------



## Dominat0r

Thanks sky...let me ask you...how does the VT231 and the Kenrad Blackglass compare...from what i understand they are pretty mucht the same thing, different maker?

 The 5998 is a JAN?

 You know what...i cant even really notice the hum in my Kenrad black glass, i guess the cans impedance is alot higher on the 650s then the K701s and it creates a louder hum on the 701s. I really love the way the kenrad sounds....its almost perfect...much less bass then the GE or RCA i have..yet it extends deep enough to give you that extra bump in some songs...very nice.

 Also, the difference is pretty much night and day in terms of soundstage...with my GE and RCA, the sound seems to be right in front of your face...like if you were to close your eyes and i asked you which part of the music you hear as up front or in the back. You couldnt really tell at all. 

 With the Kenrad, you can easily tell which part of the music is up front and which is behind that and so on. It really seems to bring the a seperation of sound.


----------



## Brewmaster

Have you tried a Sylvania for the 6sn7? That should brighten things up some vs. the RCA GTB's. See if you can grab one of the older brown base WGT's or WGTA's. Usually the price is reasonable vs. something like the bad-boys.

 I personally thought the back tube made a significant difference. I settled on a 5998 in the back, but a Sylvania 6080 in the back would be much brighter than the RCA 6as7.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_still going through the process of finding a good combo for my new 650s...what are you 650s/DV336i people using?

 I have a kenrad black glass, which has a slight hum to it...however, with enough volume you can cover it up. 

 I also have GE 6SN7GTB (gray plates, mirrored frosted on side)which sounded great with my 701s. It actually gave it a tad more bass..however with my 650s the bass sound bloated. 

 So now im using RCA 6SN7GTB which gives it a tad more richer sound without the bass bloat...but since the 650s are dark to begin with, im looking for something to brighten it up for my jazz listening needs.

 As for the back, i have RCA 6AS7G Gray plate and a assortment of 6080s...1 Valco, 1 GE, 1 Telefunkin.....however, i know there isnt much difference with the sound with the rear tube...however...anything with alittle less bass and more mid-high?_


----------



## Dominat0r

The GE 6080 and the Sylvania are pretty similar i think, i remember testing a Sylvania 6080...might have to try my GE...hmmm


----------



## Skylab

The bigger difference definitely would be in getting a 5998. No matter what brand, these were all made by Tung-Sol.


----------



## Dominat0r

Well, its funny....

 My Kenrad hums much LOUDER with the GE 6080 in the back and then the 6AS7G...in fact i cant even come close to noticing it. I really do like this combo...i mean, even with rock, the bass is a tad bloated at times...however its not to bad. 

 How would you compared the 5998s to the 6AS7Gs?


----------



## Dominat0r

Surprising ....it started to hum...

 So...now im using a Sylvania 6SN7GTB (green writing) and a GE 6080...its not a bad combo...a tad less extension to the bass, which is just what i asked for. I have the GE 6SN7GTB (white lettering) which i believe to be alittle high-mid shy...i will have to test it out. 

 OMG..i havent really put down the 650s since 1pm this afternoon....going on 13 hours ....


----------



## Skylab

The 5998 has a little tighter bass, a little more treble sparkle, and is a little more transparent than the 6AS7G, IMO. But I think the 6AS7G is a terrific sounding tube. I don't really like 6080's.


----------



## Dominat0r

thanks for the info...i like the 6080 cause it wont bloat the bass like the 6AS7 seems to. I will have to try it with the GE 6SN7GTB and GE 6080 in the back. I had this combo in the beginning when i had my 580s. Maybe be a good combo for the 650s as well. 

 GOD im stuck running around all day today and all i have is my ZEN and my E4C's...want my 650s soo badly right now hehe.


----------



## Dominat0r

hmm which you think would be a better upgrade...keep the RCA 6AS7G in the back and get a VT-231 for the front...or keep the RCA/GE 6SN7GTB for the fronts and get a 5998 for the back...

 hmmmmm....wow im typing all this from my blackjack2...pretty speedy =)


----------



## nalth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 5998 has a little tighter bass, a little more treble sparkle, and is a little more transparent than the 6AS7G, IMO. But I think the 6AS7G is a terrific sounding tube. I don't really like 6080's._

 

tighter bass = more bass?


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nalth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tighter bass = more bass?_

 


 I would say he is referring to tight controlled bass....i dont think its more bass, in fact its less overall bass...however it doesnt bloat like over bass'ed music sounds these days. 

 I much rather nice controlled bass then loose floopy bloated bass =)


----------



## Skylab

That is correct - tighter bass means better controlled, and generally means less APPARENT bass.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The VT-231 will make a bigger difference than the 5998 I think.

 Also, the only time I would pull out my 6080 is when I needed less bass for Darth Beyer midbass hump. I have 3 other 6080 that are NOS that I haven't ever tried because I sold the Darths.

 An example of recent tuning by tubes that I had to make. I was using the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G and RCA grey glass 6SN7GT and while it was great with my Grados I found the stock HFI-780 were too shrill with flabby bass with that.

 I switched to the 5998 and the bass was more controlled, and the gain was about 3db louder. But the treble was still a problem, so I switched to a Sylvania "Bad Boy" and the highs were still an issue. Next I put a Sylvania VT-231 up front and the highs were smoother and more transparent, without the edge I heard before. I left this combo in the 336i ever since then (02/25/08 I think), and it also seems to work well with everything, including my RS-1/RS-2, Edition 9 and D2000, and even my Livewires IEM.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

PS: when I would go back and forth between the RCA 6AS7G and 5998, while the Sylvania VT-231 was in place, none of the old problems with the stock 780's would come back. It was just a little more controlled with more gain when I used the 5998, but the JAN CRC 6AS7G sounded good with the 780's and the Sylvania VT-231 (but not with the other 2 tubes). 

 Also, I had tried the Hytron brown-base 5692 before I tried the VT-231, and it didn't make the 780 sound right with either rear tube. This is why I think the VT-231 was more important. I think I posted these findings in Skylab's HFI-780 thread back in February.


----------



## Dominat0r

ya, thats why i pulled out my RCA 6AS7G from the back...was GREAT for my K701s or my SR225s...but on my 580s it was flabby bass. I switched to the 6080 in the back and the back tighten up and dropped...nice its just where i like it. I got a Sylvania in there from last night...seems like the old combo that was great with my 580s are pretty nice with my 650s. 

 i think im going to try for a VT-231 first....trying to find one on ebay....

 If anyone has one they would like to part with let me know..


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

You could probably find a Sylvania VT-231 for about $40-70, while the Tung Sol 5998 will be about $30 or so. Later you might want the 5998 to go with the VT-231, if you want more bass but with the same control as the 6080.

 I found the Raytheon 6080 with a CBS 6SN7GT in front sounded more like a SS amp than a tube amp, but I never tried a 6080 with the VT-231 (which has better bass and transparency than the CBS)


----------



## Dominat0r

I hear alot of people noticing hums in there VT-231...my Kenrad hums like a champ on my DV...anyone know if there is a certain VT-231 that does not hum?

 Im really starting to enjoy the RCA 6SN7GTB Chrome top and the GE 6080 in the back. This solves my over bass problem...however, im feeling im missing some detail that the my Kenrad had.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I just think it is luck whether it hums or not, but all my hummers have cleared up with 12-100 hours of burn-in, except for a pair of "bad boys" and some russian 6SN7G that were good sounding but never got quiet with time on them.


----------



## Dominat0r

i have well over that on my Kenrad black glass and its still hums like a champ...I got it from Boomana, she gave it to me when i bought her DV (god bless her). I know she used it for a while also, so i know its well over 200-250hours on it at the least.


----------



## evanft

I plan on upgrading my headphones soon, probably to some K701s. I currently have RCA 6SN7GTB and 6AS7G, both black bases. Would these work well with the K701s, or should I think about an upgrade? I probably wouldn't want to spend more than $50 per tube, if possible.

 I may go with some HD650s, though, as I keep hearing that they work really well with the 336i. Any opinions on this combo?

 EDIT: I just got offered a Sylvania 6SN7WGT brown base and a Tung-sol (labeled Chatham) 5998 for $60 total plus shipping. Good deal? I have RCA 6SN7GTB and 6AS7G in right now.


----------



## nalth

Can someone please suggest what new tubes I could try? What tube would give me a tad more *bass*?

 My current setup:
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB (chrome dome, triangular black plates)
 RCA 6AS7G (gray plates, Westinghouse)
 + AKG K701's


 I suppose the 6AS7G could be replaced with something new?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Find a Tung Sol 5998 for the rear. I also got a slight bump in bass with a Sylvania VT-231 instead of my RCA grey glass, but I don't know anything about your Sylvania.


----------



## Dominat0r

i tried alot of rear tubes (Not a 5998) with the 701s and the truth of the matter is NONE of them gave them heavy bass. This is really not a bass headphone. The 701 is MUCH more controlled in the low department. What makes the 701 is the clean high and mids. 

 If you after heavy bass you going to need to EQ your music or get another pair of cans like the HD600 or HD650s.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nalth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone please suggest what new tubes I could try? What tube would give me a tad more *bass*?

 My current setup:
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB (chrome dome, triangular black plates)
 RCA 6AS7G (gray plates, Westinghouse)
 + AKG K701's


 I suppose the 6AS7G could be replaced with something new?_

 

If you want more bass get an RCA, Sylvania, or Ken-Rad VT-231. They will have more bass than that Sylvania.

 I think the RCA 6AS7G is the bassiest power tube one can get for the DV.


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want more bass get an RCA, Sylvania, or Ken-Rad VT-231. They will have more bass than that Sylvania.

 I think the RCA 6AS7G is the bassiest power tube one can get for the DV._

 


 Completely agree with the RCA 6AS7G being a bassey tube...sounded great with the 701s...with the 650s its a different story...would want something less bassey for the 650s for sure.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want more bass get an RCA, Sylvania, or Ken-Rad VT-231. They will have more bass than that Sylvania.

 I think the RCA 6AS7G is the bassiest power tube one can get for the DV._

 

So, that's two votes for Sylvania VT-231 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a couple of RCA 6AS7G and the bass is great, but it seemed to me like the 5998 gave me just a little more.


----------



## Skylab

I think of the 5998's as having tighter bass, and maybe just a little deeper, but not quite as much overall bass as the RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## Dominat0r

Has anyone tried a Valvo 6080? Im actually giving it a try...its really nice bad for a bassey can like the 650s. Really clean bass, not head pounding...

 I never gave it a chance on the 650s till now.....its really not bad at all. I would prob describe same as the GE 6080 however just a tad less bass. 

 I also have a telefunken 6080 thats laying around...might have to give it its day in court with my 650s.

 I have a RCA 6AS7G and its a very bassey tube with the 650s....worked great with the 701s though.

 EDIT--- after alittle Miles and some Toad i think this might be my setup. I really enjoy less bass on the 650s compared the GE6080 and the 6AS7G. I am completely blown away with this tube atm. How the sound differs from the other tubes its just amazing. I almost as amazed as when i tried the stock tubes that the DV comes with vs the RCA front and rear. 

 As i said, the 650s really needs a none bassey tube to my ears...something bright to give the already dark 650 a boost. I cannot recommend this tube enough if you can find it. I have to thank jp11808 for giving it to me when he decide to sell off his tube amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I found a better solution for the HD650 - I sold them, and kept my HD600


----------



## Dominat0r

HAHA...i guess thats a solution...

 Or maybe go Balanced ......*wallet drops dead in fear"


----------



## Dominat0r

well, went ahead and bought a upgrade zhaolu 2.5A..will see if it tightens up the bass a tad...which would be perfect. 

 Will post thoughts with different tubes when it gets here.


----------



## nalth

A quick question, is this equation true: 6SN7GT = VT-231. Or, should I be looking for some specific types (year, design etc.) of 6SN7GT's to find VT-231 equivalents.

 I'm looking for an RCA, Sylvania or Ken-Rad VT-231...


----------



## Skylab

Yes, the VT-231 is the US Military designation for the 6SN7GT.


----------



## ElephantTLK

Where to get tubes in Europe? Does anybody know (online) store in Europe for tubes?


----------



## nalth

@Skylab: Thanks!
 @ElephantTLK: Try ebay.de/co.uk, there should be a few European sellers/shops


----------



## ElephantTLK

So this tube is good RCA 6SN7-GT? What about back one (bigger) tube?


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElephantTLK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where to get tubes in Europe? Does anybody know (online) store in Europe for tubes?_

 

Avoid Ebay if you can. Try Google of your country first. I found a local guy who is selling all sorts of tubes. I bought 6SN7GT's from him for only 8 Euros per tube.


----------



## nalth

So, if I buy a VT-231, will it hum? And if it does, will it go away?


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nalth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, if I buy a VT-231, will it hum? And if it does, will it go away?_

 

The VT-231's I've bought have ranged from no hum, to 30 hours for the hum to go away.


----------



## Dominat0r

I traded my Kenrad for a Sylvania JAN-CHS 6SN7GT VT-231. It sounds as good if not better then my kenrad black glass. This has to be the best tube for this amp. 

 I was hoping to find a bendix for the back at Canjam, however i didnt see anyone with any. I should of asked Mikhail, which i got the Sylvania from. 

 I got a tube dampener finally, thanks to Nate for that...I also burrowed a nice tube from him to AB vs the Vt-231 i got from Mikhail. I got a 6SN7GT Sylvania Tall boy...they actually both the same tube if im not mistaken?

 I will let you know how that sounds soon. However the JAN-CHS VT-231 is the best tube ive heard so far. Anyone with this tube, what rear tube do you find pairs up nicely with the VT-231?


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I traded my Kenrad for a Sylvania JAN-CHS 6SN7GT VT-231. It sounds as good if not better then my kenrad black glass. This has to be the best tube for this amp. 

 I was hoping to find a bendix for the back at Canjam, however i didnt see anyone with any. I should of asked Mikhail, which i got the Sylvania from. 

 I got a tube dampener finally, thanks to Nate for that...I also burrowed a nice tube from him to AB vs the Vt-231 i got from Mikhail. I got a 6SN7GT Sylvania Tall boy...they actually both the same tube if im not mistaken?

 I will let you know how that sounds soon. However the JAN-CHS VT-231 is the best tube ive heard so far. Anyone with this tube, what rear tube do you find pairs up nicely with the VT-231?_

 

I'm running a similar tube, a WGTA with the same construction as the VT-231 Sylvanias. The WGTA sounded slightly better to me, but it was close.

 I have a TungSol 5998 in the back which really shines with the Sylvania in the front. Clear, good impact, and very balanced.


----------



## Dominat0r

do you have any other back tubes to compare it to?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I traded my Kenrad for a Sylvania JAN-CHS 6SN7GT VT-231. It sounds as good if not better then my kenrad black glass. This has to be the best tube for this amp. 

 I was hoping to find a bendix for the back at Canjam, however i didnt see anyone with any. I should of asked Mikhail, which i got the Sylvania from. 

 I got a tube dampener finally, thanks to Nate for that...I also burrowed a nice tube from him to AB vs the Vt-231 i got from Mikhail. I got a 6SN7GT Sylvania Tall boy...they actually both the same tube if im not mistaken?

 I will let you know how that sounds soon. However the JAN-CHS VT-231 is the best tube ive heard so far. Anyone with this tube, what rear tube do you find pairs up nicely with the VT-231?_

 

That Sylvania VT-231 is the one I've been raving about for the past several months as my favorite (RCA grey glass 2nd).

 I've for for most everything it is great with a Jan CRC RCA 6AS7G or a Tung Sol 5998.

 With Darth Beyer I would have to switch the rear to a Raytheon 6080 (eBay), or the front to a Raytheon 6SN7GT that I bought off skylab.


----------



## Dominat0r

how would the Jan CRC compare to the RCA 6AS7G? 

 Im guessing you use the 6080 to bring the bass down on your Darths?


----------



## Dominat0r

Just switched out the valvo in the back for the RCA 6AS7G and wow, very nice difference. I thought i hated this tube, however the new VT-231 really loving the combo it seems. The bass seems to be a tad over at some times. However its pretty clear, also its clear. The soundstage seem to shifted...also noticed that the level of volume has gone down with the tube. I switched my tube after listening to the volume at about 10 o'clock, turned off my amp for 5 mins, swapped tube, turned it on, let it warm up like 10mins and came back to listen. I could barely hear the music...so i went up to about 11 o'clock and it was the same level as before, give or take 1dB. 

 So thinking it was just something else in the line, i decided to take out the VT-231 and put in a RCA GTB, yep, as i noticed before...bass was completely uncontrolled..very sloppy, bloated...smear all fast bass lines....It seems the VT-231 brings my 6AS7G into check.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how would the Jan CRC compare to the RCA 6AS7G? 

 Im guessing you use the 6080 to bring the bass down on your Darths?_

 

The difference in the JAN CRC and non JAN CRC is not huge, but I haven't used the non-JAN CRC since last year, so I don't recall exactly - but I may have posted the differences in this thread of you search for my posts.

 The Raytheon 6080 was taming and tightening the bass of the Darths, which was way too sloppy with most of my 6AS7G tubes. The Raytheon 6SN7GT in the front had a similar effect, making the 336i sound more SS than Tube.

 I was happy with how well the Sylvania VT-231 and JAN RC RCA 6AS7G worked together, so I'm glad it is working for you as well. I liked it so much that I have 3 different brand NOS 6080's in a box that I have never tried because I found a good tube combo already.

 The Tung Sol 5998 that I mentioned should give you some of that volume back if you swap one into the rear.


----------



## Dominat0r

how much does a tungsol 5998 go for? Just curious...

 anyone have any experience with Bendix? JAN-CEA 6080WB is the model, wondering how it sounds compared to other 6080s?

 I was just really enjoying the RCA i have, its rather nice. if i could change something it would be to lessen the bass just a hair. Not so much boom.

 Thanks for the input headphone addict.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how much does a tungsol 5998 go for? Just curious...

$30 or so.

 anyone have any experience with Bendix? JAN-CEA 6080WB is the model, wondering how it sounds compared to other 6080s?

I have an Raytheon, RCA and Sylvania 6080, and I forget the last one. But I've only listened to the Raytheon.

 I was just really enjoying the RCA i have, its rather nice. if i could change something it would be to lessen the bass just a hair. Not so much boom.

 Thanks for the input headphone addict._

 

What headphones are your primary phones that have to much bass?


----------



## Dominat0r

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What headphones are your primary phones that have to much bass?_

 

the 650s


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how would the Jan CRC compare to the RCA 6AS7G? 
_

 

If you are comparing tubes of the same construction, there should be no difference that is attributable to the tube being JAN or not. RCA made grey plates and black plates, top halo getter and bottom d getter 6AS7G's. Some were commercial logo'd, and some sold to the military, but a black plate halo getter 6AS7G should not differ regardless of whether it is JAN or not. Of course, given the age of these tubes, almost all samples _slightly_ differ from one another even if they are identical tubes.


----------



## Dominat0r

i know i have the black plates in mine...what is the top halo and bottem D getting look like? What is the getting anyway?


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_do you have any other back tubes to compare it to?_

 

I have RCA 6080 and 6AS7
 Sylvania 6AS7 and 6080
 GE 6080

 The 5998 is my favorite, with the Sylvania 6AS7 coming in second. I just don't like the RCA sound.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i know i have the black plates in mine...what is the top halo and bottem D getting look like? What is the getting anyway?_

 

The tube will have flashing around where the getter is. So 6AS7's who have a "clear top" have a BOTTOM getter (and the flashing will be at the base of the tube). Ones that have a top getter will have a "chrome top" (although it certainly isn't actual chrome - see below). 

  Quote:


 *The getter*

 We want a good, hard vacuum inside a tube, or it will not work properly. And we want that vacuum to last as long as possible. Sometimes, very small leaks can appear in a tube envelope (often around the electrical connections in the bottom). Or, the tube may not have been fully "degassed" on the vacuum pump at the factory, so there may be some stray air inside. The "getter" is designed to remove some stray gas.

 The getter in most glass tubes is a small cup or holder, containing a bit of a metal that reacts with oxygen strongly and absorbs it. (In most modern glass tubes, the getter metal is barium, which oxidizes VERY easily when it is pure.) When the tube is pumped out and sealed, the last step in processing is to "fire" the getter, producing a "getter flash" inside the tube envelope. That is the silvery patch you see on the inside of a glass tube. It is a guarantee that the tube has good vacuum. If the seal on the tube fails, the getter flash will turn white (because it turns into barium oxide).

 There have been rumors that dark spots on getters indicate a tube which is used. This is NOT TRUE. Sometimes, the getter flash is not perfectly uniform, and a discolored or clear spot can occur. The tube is still good and will give full lifetime. THE ONLY RELIABLE WAY TO DETERMINE THE HEALTH OF A TUBE IS TO TEST IT ELECTRICALLY.

 

Taken from this very informative site: How Vacuum Tubes Work


----------



## Dominat0r

Here is a pic i found off the web...my tube is exactly the same thing..with the chrome on top. So the getter is on top where the flash is. Thanks for the info. Im guessing they dont differ that much then?


----------



## Skylab

I have NO idea if the location of the getter has an impact on the sonics. I do think the black-plates sound better than the Grey plates.

 The quietest 6AS7G's I have ever used are the Chatham and Tung-Sols, which I think are actually the same tube made by Tung-Sol. They are really great. Almost as good as the Tung-Sol 5998.

 Also, FWIW, all 5998's are made by Tung-Sol, regardless of brand, including the ridiculously overpriced Western Electric 421a. The GE 5998A is the only exception, which is not ST shaped, and has plate constriction like a 6AS7 rather than a 5998. GE should be spanked for trying to pass it off as a 5998 - it's really just a re-labeled 6AS7GA.


----------



## Dominat0r

selling off my VT-231 if anyone is interested....most agree the best tube for this amp. It DOES NOT hum either....shoot me a PM.


----------



## Von Soundcard

How good are General Electric 6080s ?
 Are there big differences between different production periods ?


----------



## Dominat0r

there are subtle differences between the tubes of the same style, different brands. 

 The GE i had is pretty nice, it meshed with the 580s and the 650s nicely.


----------



## Von Soundcard

I was curious to hear impressions of these (GE) versus other brands of 6080. Where do they stand, what are their weak and strong points ?


----------



## Dominat0r

The 6080 is a nice tube, bass is tight, soundstage seems to be alittle smaller then others. 

 The 6AS7G is a better tube imo, its got a nice bassey sound to it, a tad bigger soundstage it seems. 

 If you have a really bassey can, get a 6080, if you have a non bassey can, get the 6AS7G. 

 I would get both (and did) just to have it. I have a Telefunkin, Valvo and GE 6080...the Valvo seems to be alittle brighter, more detail, less bass compared to the others.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Thanks for the info.
 If anyone else has other comments on the GE 6080 vs other brands or about it's quality / signature in general, I'd also like to hear them.


----------



## malldian

Would anyone be willing to sell me a couple sets of tubes to try out on my 336i which will be here in a few days?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would anyone be willing to sell me a couple sets of tubes to try out on my 336i which will be here in a few days?_

 

Hey, I'll try digging through my collection and see what I have that I don't need, once I know what I have I'll send you a private message. I have the box with tubes buried in my closet somewhere (I think).

 I think I have a spare CBS 6SN7 type tube for the front tube socket, and maybe a TungSol brown base re-issue for the front as well (good). I also might have a couple of good Sylvanias for the front. And for the rear a spare RCA 6AS7G, Svetlana 6AS7G, and 2 or 3 6080 tubes like GE or Sylvania (also good).

 I also have several new old stock Russian military 6SN7 from the "Radiator" plant that hummed for me that you can have 1 or 2 for free if I sell you any tubes, just in case they don't hum for you (because the music I hear above of the hum is nice). I also have a Sylvania Bad Boy that is highly sought after but it hummed a little for me, but it might not hum for you - these sell for $50-80, so I was a bit depressed about this one. I can't "give away" the bad boy, but I wont be asking a lot either - Nick 20 says it sounds good on his system.

 My favorites that I'm keeping for the front socket are a Jan CRC red base 5692, a Hytron brown-base 5692, a couple of Sylvania VT-231, an RCA grey glass VT-231, Raytheon 6SN7GT, a new Bad Boy, a KenRad VT-231, Raytheon 6SN7GT - For the rear I am keeping a Tung Sol 5998, JAN CRC 6AS7G, Raytheon 6080.


----------



## malldian

I have a RCA combo coming from skylab, let me know about which you are letting go.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would anyone be willing to sell me a couple sets of tubes to try out on my 336i which will be here in a few days?_

 

Best affordable drivers I tried:
 RCA 6SN7GT smoke glass,

 RCA 6SN7GT clear glass,

 Sylvania 6SN7GTB/short base, green print.

Best affordable power tubes I tried:
 Mullard 6080--The only 6080 tube I really liked: rich, detailed and balanced. The GE and RCA 6080s always sounded hard to me.

 Svetlana 6N13C--Clean, detailed, balanced and extended. My favorite.

 Sylvania 6AS7/made in Britain--A rarity, but this tube offers great neutrality; everything you've come to expect from a Sylvania, in spades! : )

 RCA 6AS7G gray plates--A lush-sounding tube with very open mids and highs, but slightly wooly bass. Big soundstage. The black plate version of this tube always sounded harsh to me.

 Sylvanias and RCAs pair and compliment each other well. For example, if you run the RCA 6SN7GT up front, the Sylvania 6AS7 would do well in the back; a Sylvania 6SN7GTB up front would go well with the RCA 6AS7G/gray plate in the back. This way, you capitalize on the relative strengths of the two tubes and get the "best of both worlds," so to speak.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a Sylvania 6SN7GTB up front would go well with the RCA 6AS7G/gray plate in the back._

 

I'd recommend a GT over a GTB. The GT sounds noticable more refined to me.
 You can find GT's for low prices (avoid Ebay).


----------



## bobby001

Where can get good tubes for cheap ? What is a normal price for a good tube ?


----------



## Skylab

You can get a nice set of NOS (New Old Stock) tubes from Antique Electronic Supply for under $50 - Brown Base 6SN7GT for $31 and 6AS7G for $10.


----------



## bobby001

talk about this one ? : 6SN7GT - TRIODE, DUAL, MEDIUM MU, BROWN BASE ONLY 

 They don't mention the brand :'(


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, that is the one. You can email them to ask them the brand


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_talk about this one ? : 6SN7GT - TRIODE, DUAL, MEDIUM MU, BROWN BASE ONLY 

 They don't mention the brand :'(_

 

Any pictures of the base? 


 Sylvania, Raytheon, GE, Mullard, and Tungsol come to mind. I'm not sure of any other brown based GT's.





 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 I was hoping to find a bendix for the back at Canjam, however i didnt see anyone with any. I should of asked Mikhail, which i got the Sylvania from._

 

Mikhail has the Bendix for $200. The 5998 is the best thing you can get, within a reasonable price. Unless of course you have $200 for a rear tube... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a tube dampener finally, thanks to Nate for that...I also burrowed a nice tube from him to AB vs the Vt-231 i got from Mikhail. I got a 6SN7GT Sylvania Tall boy...they actually both the same tube if im not mistaken?_

 

_"Sylvania Tall Boy types have two triangular shaped plates facing each other mounted high in the tube, with either a top or bottom getter. Later GT versions were in a medium glass envelope with a green label and blackplates with bottom getter, sometimes called the "Bad Boy" 6SN7, and are sought after for their excellent sonics. The Bad Boy tubes are virtually identical to the military VT-231 from the early 1950s"_

 However the VT-231 and "Bad Boy" are not sonically the same.. YMMV. I had both at the same time, and to me, the VT-231 had much of the same sound of the "BB", but was a little tighter in all areas. Sometimes the "BB" was more fluid in everything it did. 

 Also, there are some "Tall Boy' - 'Bad Boy's' " but remember, BB's have 3 holes per plate. If you have two it's a VT-231. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will let you know how that sounds soon. However the JAN-CHS VT-231 is the best tube ive heard so far. Anyone with this tube, what rear tube do you find pairs up nicely with the VT-231?_

 

Tung Sol 5998
 JAN-CRC RCA 6AS7

 ...match up well with any tube.





 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how would the Jan CRC compare to the RCA 6AS7G? 

 Im guessing you use the 6080 to bring the bass down on your Darths?_

 


 IMO, the JAN-CRC's a significantly different from the standard RCA 6AS7. The JAN-CRC is better across the board, and is worth the $10-$15 difference it calls for. YMMV, as always.





 -Nick


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how much does a tungsol 5998 go for? Just curious..._

 

$30-$75 a piece. Depends on condition (new or used) and if original box is included (new or used). 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HighLife* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone have any experience with Bendix? JAN-CEA 6080WB is the model, wondering how it sounds compared to other 6080s?_

 

_Mikhail recently asked me to bring my THA-336i in to his shop to try out some new output tubes that he got. We listened to tung sol 5998s and that is a decent tube but the bendix 6080wb is an amazing tube! They are built like a tank. Even Mikhail thought the Darkvoice sounded pretty good with the bendix as the output and a sylvania 6sn7w for input. With the other output tubes he said the sound was 'mushy'. If you can find one, I highly recommend the bendix 6080wb._

 I don't know is "mushy" is good, but.. very few have heard them, and even fewer own them. 

 The 5998's are the next best thing to the Bendix. I can't say I totally agree with this comment, because the 5998 is better than "decent" IMO, but then again I haven't heard a Bendix, to be able to call the 5998 "decent". 




 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

Contact Skylab. He knows of a source for the Tung-Sol 5998 at $22 apiece. 

 The Svetlana 6N13S is a worthy 6AS7 substitute; and I don't think it sounds "mushy" either! : ) Best 6080 I've tried, short of the Bendix, was the Mullard.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, the JAN-CRC's a significantly different from the standard RCA 6AS7. The JAN-CRC is better across the board, and is worth the $10-$15 difference it calls for. YMMV, as always._

 

I actually don't agree that the JAN versions sound different IF we are comparing the same exact construction tubes. RCA made black plate and grey plate, and they DO sound different, and there are JAN versions of both.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 5998's are the next best thing to the Bendix. I can't say I totally agree with this comment, because the 5998 is better than "decent" IMO, but then again I haven't heard a Bendix, to be able to call the 5998 "decent". 


 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I totally agree, the 5998's are indeed fantastic sounding tubes, and are great in DV amps, much better than any 6AS7. I have never heard a Bendix 6080 either, but if it is ANYTHING like the other 6080's I have heard, I wouldn't care for it. But we all do hear differently.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Contact Skylab. He knows of a source for the Tung-Sol 5998 at $22 apiece. 

 The Svetlana 6N13S is a worthy 6AS7 substitute; and I don't think it sounds "mushy" either! : ) Best 6080 I've tried, short of the Bendix, was the Mullard._

 

Yep, $22 NOS 5998s at Antique Electronic Supply. Get them while you can!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually don't agree that the JAN versions sound different IF we are comparing the same exact construction tubes. RCA made black plate and grey plate, and they DO sound different, and there are JAN versions of both._

 

I didn't know there were two versions. I do know that the JAC-CRC Raytheon I had, remember, I was asking about it a long time ago, was a lot better than both the RCA 6AS7's I had. 

 I don't remember if it had grey/black plates or not, but it sounded good, IMO. 



 Does anyone here actually own a WE 421a?






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_


 Does anyone here actually own a WE 421a?






 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I actually hope not, since the 421a is just a re-branded 5998 selling for 5-10x the price


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I actually hope not, since the 421a is just a re-branded 5998 selling for 5-10x the price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I didn't think so, but a recent search and I found some for $30-$40, tested strong. 

 Just wondering.. of course. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

That's cheap for 421a's, but still, why bother - you're just paying for the WE logo.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's cheap for 421a's, but still, why bother - you're just paying for the WE logo._

 

Well of course I'm all about saving money, but once in a while I splurge a little bit. I will take a stab at one of the 5998's from AES. I'll call and see if they have any original boxes too. You know me, collector of original tube boxes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 -Nick


----------



## nick20

bump.. where's the activity fellas? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone with new tubes, or would like to share a new experience with their recently acquired tubes?






 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bump.. where's the activity fellas? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone with new tubes, or would like to share a new experience with their recently acquired tubes?






 -Nick_

 

Maybe we're all happily listening to our DV336i because we found the right tubes through this thread. We could have it renamed "DV336i appreciation thread", and then keep going


----------



## druelle

I've pretty much settled on my Mullard 6080 & Sylvania 6SN7WGTA combo. Sonic bliss to my ears!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *druelle* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've pretty much settled on my Mullard 6080 & Sylvania 6SN7WGTA combo. Sonic bliss to my ears!_

 


 Very nice. What other rear tubes have you tried? Have you considered the Sylvania 6SN7WGT? They're considerably better, however they are considerably more expensive. Worth the going price on eBay which is about $40-$50 a piece, or less if you can find one with no action. 


 I'm watching two rare tubes, I'll let you know about them when it's over, in about 5 days. Heck, there's not a whole lot of published information on them, however in England, these are highly considered as top tier tubes, so we'll see. I'll post pictures and going price when the auction is over. 




 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

The new 336SE is sounding quite good with my Tung-Sol set - black plate 6AS7G in the back and 6SN7GTB tall-bottle in the front. So far only the 6SN7GTB's I have used don't hum - the 6SN7GT's and VT-231's I tried all do. This weekend I plan to try a few more 6SN7's to see what the result is.


----------



## nick20

Keep us posted Rob.

 How does the TS 6SN7GTB compare to the TS 6SN7GT? 






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep us posted Rob.

 How does the TS 6SN7GTB compare to the TS 6SN7GT? 






 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have TS 6SN7GTB's, and 6SN7WGT's (brown base, JAN military issue). I prefer the slightly cleaner sound of the WGT's. I haven't tried the WGT's yet in the 336SE.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have TS 6SN7GTB's, and 6SN7WGT's (brown base, JAN military issue). I prefer the slightly cleaner sound of the WGT's. I haven't tried the WGT's yet in the 336SE._

 

Rob, have you heard the Hytron VT-231?

 This one..


----------



## Brewmaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The new 336SE is sounding quite good with my Tung-Sol set - black plate 6AS7G in the back and 6SN7GTB tall-bottle in the front. So far only the 6SN7GTB's I have used don't hum - the 6SN7GT's and VT-231's I tried all do. This weekend I plan to try a few more 6SN7's to see what the result is._

 

I found with this amp that the older VT231's and GT's need to burn in to get rid of the hum. Anywhere from an hour up to about 30 hours for an RCA gray glass tube I had.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found with this amp that the older VT231's and GT's need to burn in to get rid of the hum. Anywhere from an hour up to about 30 hours for an RCA gray glass tube I had._

 

I agree to a point. SOME tubes haven't been used in 50 years, so there is an increasing chance that it will have some "noise". However in my experience with VT-231's, only one hummed, out of about 6 or so that I had. YMMV. Smoked glass tubes tend to take longer to rid the "noise", than any other tube. I don't know if it's the RFI coating on the inside, or what.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob, have you heard the Hytron VT-231?

 This one..
_

 

Looks exactly like my tall-bottle Hytron 6SN7GT, but mine are not JAN.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Brewmaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found with this amp that the older VT231's and GT's need to burn in to get rid of the hum. Anywhere from an hour up to about 30 hours for an RCA gray glass tube I had._

 

With the 336SE specifically? I confess I only gave one of them a few hours to burn in, and the hum did not go away, and so the other GT's I tried I only gave about 30 minutes to. I will try a few of my favorites and see how they do, but the really bad news was I put an RCA VT-231 into the 336SE and it hummed, where it had been totally silent in my SP Extreme.

 But again, the GTB's are all totally (and I mean TOTALLY) quiet.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks exactly like my tall-bottle Hytron 6SN7GT, but mine are not JAN._

 

I think Mike (Negatron) said there was a slight difference (for the better) between the 6SN7GT and the VT-231 version. 

 He loaned me that tube, and I must confess it is one of the cleanest sounding tubes I've tried. I liked EVERYTHING about it. Bass was also noticeably better too.

 When I get my hands on when, I'll send it to you for an evaluation.






 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Cool, thanks! Love to compare them. No doubt that the internal construction is 100% identical, though.


----------



## Brewmaster

With the first generation 336i.

 I'd say my Sylvania VT-231 lost the hum in about an hour, same for a Ken Rad black glass, RCA for some reason took a long time.

 I've had a couple of Sylvania GTB's that hummed for a little while, then settled down.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks exactly like my tall-bottle Hytron 6SN7GT, but mine are not JAN.



 With the 336SE specifically? I confess I only gave one of them a few hours to burn in, and the hum did not go away, and so the other GT's I tried I only gave about 30 minutes to. I will try a few of my favorites and see how they do, but the really bad news was I put an RCA VT-231 into the 336SE and it hummed, where it had been totally silent in my SP Extreme.

 But again, the GTB's are all totally (and I mean TOTALLY) quiet._


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool, thanks! Love to compare them. No doubt that the internal construction is 100% identical, though._

 

The same as the red label CBS's?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The same as the red label CBS's?_

 

Yes. I have 2 white-label Hytrons and one Red-label CBS. As long as we are talking about the tall-bottle tubes, the black-plate construction internally is identical to what is in that photo - getter, plates, and all.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. I have 2 white-label Hytrons and one Red-label CBS. As long as we are talking about the tall-bottle tubes, the black-plate construction internally is identical to what is in that photo - getter, plates, and all._

 

Nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This isn't a tall bottle, is it? It doesn't look like it is to me...


----------



## Skylab

Nope. There were short, medium, and tall bottle CBS 6SN7 types. Best I can tell from the photo, that is a short-bottle, but it might be a medium - hard to tell by itself.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope. There were short, medium, and tall bottle CBS 6SN7 types. Best I can tell from the photo, that is a short-bottle, but it might be a medium - hard to tell by itself._

 


 Thanks.


----------



## el_monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The new 336SE is sounding quite good with my Tung-Sol set - black plate 6AS7G in the back and 6SN7GTB tall-bottle in the front. So far only the 6SN7GTB's I have used don't hum - the 6SN7GT's and VT-231's I tried all do. This weekend I plan to try a few more 6SN7's to see what the result is._

 

Skylab, what back tube are you using? The reason that I ask is that I have both a 336i and a 336se and find that changing the back tube can sometimes eliminate or greatly reduce the humming. I am currently using a Bendix 6080 and Tung Sol 6SN7GT (round-plates) with great success (no humming) on the 336se. With the 336i, I found that using a GE 6080 WC gives me significantly less hum than using a Tung Sol 5998, RCA 6AS7Gs (black and grey plates), and other 6080s (Tung Sol, Mullard) with some of my front tubes--Raytheon 6SNGT and 6SNWGT, Tung Sol 6SNGT (non-round plates), and Sylvania 6SN7W. However, with some tubes I experience a hum on both the Darkvoices irrespective of the back tube (e.g., RCA VT-231). Also, I found that any humming is much more noticeable with my Grado RS1s than my AKG 701s. I guess due to the difference in impedence.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *el_monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab, what back tube are you using? The reason that I ask is that I have both a 336i and a 336se and find that changing the back tube can sometimes eliminate or greatly reduce the humming. I am currently using a Bendix 6080 and Tung Sol 6SN7GT (round-plates) with great success (no humming) on the 336se. With the 336i, I found that using a GE 6080 WS gives me significantly less hum than using a Tung Sol 5998, RCA 6AS7Gs (black and grey plates), and other 6080s (Tung Sol, Mullard) with some of my front tubes--Raytheon 6SNGT and 6SNWGT, Tung Sol 6SNGT (non-round plates), and Sylvania 6SN7W. However, with some tubes I experience a hum on both the Darkvoices irrespective of the back tube (e.g., RCA VT-231). Also, I found that any humming is much more noticeable with my Grado RS1s than my AKG 701s. I guess due to the difference in impedence._

 


 Pink noise repairs "noise". Have you tried it?


----------



## el_monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pink noise repairs "noise". Have you tried it?_

 

No, this is the first time that I heard about pink noise repairing "noise." Can you provide additional details and possibly a link to where I can download some pink noise? Thanks!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *el_monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, this is the first time that I heard about pink noise repairing "noise." Can you provide additional details and possibly a link to where I can download some pink noise? Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Michael Knowles: Extras

 Track 58. Play at a low level all day. Check for "noise" after a few hours. If it has gotten better, but is still there, just repeat. 





 -Nick


----------



## el_monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Michael Knowles: Extras

 Track 58. Play at a low level all day. Check for "noise" after a few hours. If it has gotten better, but is still there, just repeat. 





 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Muchas Gracias! I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.


----------



## Skylab

I am currently using a Tungsram 6AS7G (British-made A1834 type) and a Tung-Sol 6SN7WGT in the DV336SE. No hum, or ANY noise for that matter, and sounds excellent.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Because of how well the DV336i does with my Edition 9, I just moved it back up from the basement to my bedside rig, feeding it from my HR Micro DAC and iRiver H140, D-303 or Macbook via optical.

 The 336i with the right tubes sounds like a amp twice it's price, and I love it. I have the 336i tuned to sound very good with my D2000 and Edition 9 and HD600 and Yamaha HP-1, using (JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G and Sylvania VT-231). With those tubes it is not as great for my Grado RS-1 and HF-1, making them a little too bright and thin, but I can use a Tung Sol 5998 with Hytron 5692 brown-base and it is great with the Grados. 

 I just got a couple more pairs of 6DE7 for my WA6, so it may end up being better for my Edition 9 than the 336i with 4 pair of driver tubes to try out (and several GZ34, 5U4G, SAR4), but for now the 336i is still a fantastic amp. Sadly for me the 336i is still very nice, because when I bought my Woo WA6 (maxed with pseudo dual power supply) the plan was that it would replace the 336i, but I can't bring myself to sell it. 

 As a matter of fact, I have 7 new 6SN7 tubes to try in it now - if I recall I have a new 1965 tube with light brown base that appears to be a three-hole Bad Boy and tests at 102%, a new JAN CRC RCA 5692 red-base tests at 101%, a tall Sylvania green type from the 1950's at 102%, a Sylvania yellow print type 6SN7GTB that tested at 96%, a ken-rad VT-231, and 2 other that I forget what they are (on mini-vacation, not at home to check). One I think is a 6SN7WGTA.

 Basically, the way it is set up, the WA6 "excels" with everything except the Edition 9 which sound only "fair" with the WA6 (Ed 9 too dark with the WA6), and the 336i "excels" with the Edition 9 and D2000 and sounds "great" with everything else except being just "fair" with my Grados (unless I roll tubes as above).


----------



## Skylab

I've never been too impressed with the RCA 5692, but will love to hear your impressions. I do like the Ken-Rad black-glass VT-231 a LOT though.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I do like the Ken-Rad black-glass VT-231 a LOT though._

 

Those Ken Rad's are the bomb. Excellent BASS tubes.. that's for sure. Well worth their going price.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never been too impressed with the RCA 5692, but will love to hear your impressions. I do like the Ken-Rad black-glass VT-231 a LOT though._

 

So how much different will it sound vs my Hytron 5692?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how much different will it sound vs my Hytron 5692?_

 

If I remember correctly, the Hytron 5692 is the best overall sounding 5692, but you'd be better off spending the money on a true 6SN7. 

 Don't get me wrong, they're nice tubes, but not worth what they're going for today. 




 -Nick


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how much different will it sound vs my Hytron 5692?_

 

My experience was the Hytron 5692 was quite a bit better. But I do prefer 6SN7WGT's and VT-231's over 5692's, generally.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I only use the Hytron 5692 with my APS re-cabled RS-1 and HF-1, or when I had a pair of stock HFI-780. 

 I use the VT-231 for everything else. The grey-glass RCA and Sylvania VT-231 sound very similar to me as a brighter crisper sound with punchy bass. The Bad Boy was closer to the VT-231 than the 5692, although it could be a little too airy or etherial at times.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I did some brief listening to my new batch of 6SN7 type tubes and equivalents. Using a JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G in the back and listening with my Denon D2000, RS-1 and Yamaha HP-1 orthos, I ranked the 6SN7 types in order of preference. 

 The last three tubes in my list probably wont get used much, not because they are bad but because I have so many that are better. I decided to save the two Sylvania VT-231 as a backup pair in case I get an amp that uses a pair. I plan to get to know the other tubes like JAN CRC RCA 5692 red-base a little more, and see just how good or bad they really are.

 1. The new Bad Boy (3 holes) sounds similar to my other Bad Boy and both of my Sylvania VT-231 and my RCA grey glass VT-231, and is quite nice. They are all open and airy, with crisp highs, warm mids and tight bass. The other Bad Boy I have is the one I posted in February as being a loud hummer after 125 hours of burn-in with slight improvement.
 2. The JAN CRC 5692 red base actually sounds pretty nice too, maybe very slightly darker than the Sylvanias, but good bass control and smooth rich mids. I am enjoying this one as I type, and only wish it was a little more transparent like the Sylvanias.
 3. The Jan CRC 6SN7WGTA sounds very nice too. Had a hard time deciding between 2nd and 3rd, with slightly less bass control but crisper highs.
 4. The tall green print Sylvania 6SN7 sounds good but not as good as the others. Does nothing wrong but also nothing special.
 5. The new JAN CKR 6SN7GT VT-231 Ken Rad side getter (not black glass) sounds very nice too, clear and open sounding like my Sylvanias. There seems to be a peak at 250-1000Hz with that I don't like and need to try with more phones, and there is a loud hum in the left channel (maybe why I got this one free). If the hum doesn't go away with burn-in it moves to 7th, and if hum and low mids peak does go away it moves to 4th.
 6. The RCA 6SN7 with faded print is nice but nothing special, and mids are a bit too prominent. I got this one free too, as a bonus with the first 4.
 7. the GE 6SN7GTB side getter, same as the RCA 6SN7 above. I got this one for free too, as a bonus with the first 4.


----------



## Skylab

Great post, Larry, and some nice tubes!


----------



## nick20

I know there's more 336i owners out there!! Come on, don't be shy. Let's discuss tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 -Nick


----------



## pataburd

O.K. Let's hear it for the Mullard 6080! : ) Anyone else tried and liked these power tubes?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_O.K. Let's hear it for the Mullard 6080! : ) Anyone else tried and liked these power tubes?_

 

I have not, nor do I think many people have. How do they sound in regards to a TS5998?




 -Nick


----------



## bobby001

I ordered a Mullard 6080 but still waiting for it


----------



## bobby001

Can I use RCA 5691 6SL7G in the DV336i ?


----------



## Skylab

I wouldn't. Putting aside for a moment the issue of whether the 336i can handle the 6SL7, which I think I have read it can but I wouldn't guarantee it, the 6SL7 doesn't pair all that well with the 6AS7. It will not sound as good as a 6SN7, even if it will work without damage (again, no guarantee of that).


----------



## pataburd

Has anyone tried the Chelmer or Mullard CV-181 with the DV336i? It was a super driver for the MPX3, IMHE. I would also like to try the CV-181 in the Bada, but there is no information along these lines that I can find right now. : )


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the Chelmer or Mullard CV-181 with the DV336i? It was a super driver for the MPX3, IMHE. I would also like to try the CV-181 in the Bada, but there is no information along these lines that I can find right now. : )_

 

Rob and I are going to split a pair here shortly. We will post our findings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Found a super deal on the smoked glass ones.. which are from the 50's, just rebranded Haltron. ALL CV1988's made by Brimar. 

 Rob, has first hand experience with the older 70's CV1988 in the MPX I believe as well. 





 -Nick


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rob and I are going to split a pair here shortly. We will post our findings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Found a super deal on the smoked glass ones.. which are from the 50's, just rebranded Haltron. ALL CV1988's made by Brimar. 

 Rob, has first hand experience with the older 70's CV1988 in the MPX I believe as well. 





 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You should get that bad boy sometime between monday and wednesday...


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should get that bad boy sometime between monday and wednesday..._

 

Sounds good. I'll get a partial refund to you ASAP. And the rest at the conclusion of next week. 




 -Nick


----------



## bobby001

anyone has a bad boy to sell for a reasonnable price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## bobby001

I'm also looking for a great rear tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Send me PM if you have something for me


----------



## paul_lindemann

Some great recommendations and some very generous folks hang out here!

 The bias of a listener has much to do with the tube preferance. For example, the RCA VT231 has incredible midrange ambiance and smooth highs. On some amps the bass is too bloomy. The CBS Hydron is a great smooth tube - very non-fatiguing, but lacks dynamics.

 I have a bit of experience with the 6SN7 and can match the listeners bias to the right tubes. Feel free to e mail me. Good Luck!


----------



## nick20

Welcome aboard Paul! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 -Nick


----------



## bobby001

Anyone already tried this tube : Jan 6080WC Sylvania ?

 What do you think about it ?


----------



## el_monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pink noise repairs "noise". Have you tried it?_

 

Using "pink noise" did not result in a noticeable change the humming that I was getting from my various tubes. However, I tried the "Fritz-mod" and it worked great. Many of the tubes that I had a loud hum on the left channel cleared-up. As a result, I now use a number of tubes that I had given up on. I am currently using a RCA JAN VT-231 in the front with a Tung Sol JAN 5998 in the back. No hum to speak of, nice bass, and wide soundstage using my Grado RS1s.


----------



## bobby001

I ordered a couple of tubes :

 One Mullard 6080 and another one was supposed to be a Sylvania (according the pic) but in fact on the invoice it's just wrote : USA TUBE. So I received this tube :

 JAN CRC-6SN7-GT VT-231 branded by RCA and with a smoke/grey glass

 Is it a nice tube ?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered a couple of tubes :

 One Mullard 6080 and another one was supposed to be a Sylvania (according the pic) but in fact on the invoice it's just wrote : USA TUBE. So I received this tube :

 JAN CRC-6SN7-GT VT-231 branded by RCA and with a smoke/grey glass

 Is it a nice tube ?_

 

Bobby,
 Just listen to it. You don't need us to tell you how your tube sounds! : ) 
 BTW, the RCA VT-231 are a revered 6SN7 tube. : )
 PAB


----------



## bobby001

I just received it so I asked because it wasn't the one I was expected 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It sounds really nice, I perhaps prefer my sylvania as front tube because the high and medium are little much brighter but the rca is really good balanced tube


----------



## Skylab

Where are you guys buying the Mullard 6080's? EBay?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you guys buying the Mullard 6080's? EBay?_

 

Rob, PAB is getting them from a European source. I asked him how they fair against the 5998 for Rock, and he said to stick with the 5998. 

 I know a few members who picked up some Bendix 6080's, which I'm dieing to hear..


----------



## bobby001

nope

 I bought it on a uk website : here

 Can you tell me where to find the TS 5988, you already gave a link, but seems not available anymore


----------



## bobby001

pretty cheap : 20$ not including shipping

 if the shop doesn't send overseas I could help you for buy it and then send to you.

 edit : it's even cheaper when you add it to cart it's only 15$.


----------



## Skylab

That is good to know since the 6080 is not usually an expensive tube (you can get NOS USA ones for around $5). I will try that site, thanks!


----------



## bobby001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is good to know since the 6080 is not usually an expensive tube (you can get NOS USA ones for around $5). I will try that site, thanks!_

 

Do you know where I ca find a TS 5988 ? not available anymore in the first link you gave some times ago.

 Thanks.


----------



## malldian

Bump!

 I have been trying several combos, any idea of a combo that would give me the tight controlled bass I am looking for (not quantity) for MP Sextetts?


----------



## Skylab

Tight controlled bass = Tung-sol 5998 power tube


----------



## bobby001

I'm still looking for a Tung-sol 5998


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still looking for a Tung-sol 5998 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 All 336i owners are, unfortunately.


----------



## malldian

Any idea on the differences between the years? For the 5998 should I be looking for something specifically?

 I found a 6AS7G Tungsol black plates NOS 1961, yay or nay?


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, too bad AES sold out - for a while they were just $22 NOS!

 Matt, all 5998's were made by Tung-sol, and they are all the same (do NOT get a 5998A however, which was a GE relabled 6080)


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any idea on the differences between the years? For the 5998 should I be looking for something specifically?_

 


 All years sound the same. Refer back to that thread you PM'd me about. There's pictures of different years, but they all sound the same. Which is surprising, because most tubes don't sound the same even a decade apart.


----------



## nick20

This is the most action this thread has got in a week.. we must keep this one active guys.


----------



## malldian

Yeah I am going to start taking notes on different combination I try and post them here.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I am going to start taking notes on different combination I try and post them here._

 

I look forward to reading them. I finally found the thread on "sounds". It's been difficult for to write down what I hear, because I'm still new with writing about "sounds". 

 If anyone is interested:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/des...ossary-220770/





 -Nick


----------



## nick20

The average price for 5998's now, are between $35-$60. It all depends on timing. Often the 5998's resurface as a large lot, and there's periods where no one has them, which temporarily causes them to sky rocket in price. But when available, they're as cheap as $20.

 Right now, it's a little slow in regards to the TS-5998.

 EDIT: I just inquired about getting a hold of some more. I know a few tube wholesale guys by me in Orlando.


----------



## malldian

I found a pair at tubeworld, I guess I will wait and see what you find before I jump the gun. Hopefully a $20 set will jump out in the next couple days.


----------



## nick20

A cheaper alternative is the Svetlana tubes.. I liked them a lot, not as good as a 5998, but very clean, clear and crisp. Not a bad tube at all.. 

ECC230 = 6AS7G = 6N13S Svetlana Tubes. Lot of 4 - eBay (item 350081792659 end time Jul-28-08 14:39:26 PDT)


 If someone buys one lot, he can then sell the other 3 here.. makes for $9 a tube.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found a pair at tubeworld, I guess I will wait and see what you find before I jump the gun. Hopefully a $20 set will jump out in the next couple days._

 


 Not for a set.. $20 a tube, and that has only happened once, I believe. $30-$40 isn't bad. These tubes are worth more.. they're damn fine tubes.


----------



## malldian

I will buy the Svetlana and wait on the Tung-Sol, thanks a lot!


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will buy the Svetlana and wait on the Tung-Sol, thanks a lot!_

 

Their really not bad tubes.. except the 5998 is a lot better in pretty much all aspects, but for the price, those are hard to beat.

 When you receive them, let members, here, know that you have 3 for sale, for $10 or $12 shipped.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Their really not bad tubes.. except the 5998 is a lot better in pretty much all aspects, but for the price, those are hard to beat.

 When you receive them, let members, here, know that you have 3 for sale, for $10 or $12 shipped._

 

I have discovered that I am an anti-bass head. Once I realized why I didn't like the Denon 2000's at all I started pursuing the opposite effect with my sextetts. Only time will tell but I think this was a good discovery.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have discovered that I am an anti-bass head. Once I realized why I didn't like the Denon 2000's at all I started pursuing the opposite effect with my sextetts. Only time will tell but I think this was a good discovery._

 

Which Sextett's do you have? EP,MP,LP?


----------



## bobby001

nick20 : did you compare the TS and the mullard as rear tube ?


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which Sextett's do you have? EP,MP,LP?_

 

MP, I tried the LP but decided that I am looking for a bit more bass then they had, just with more control and tightness than I have heard as of yet. Hopefully the meet I am going to this Saturday can help me set some goals.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobby001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nick20 : did you compare the TS and the mullard as rear tube ?_

 

No Mullards for me. I spoke with Pataburd, who has both, and told him what music I listen to, and he concurred that the 5998 was best for me, and rock. So I didn't bother ordering one. Sorry.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MP, I tried the LP but decided that I am looking for a bit more bass then they had, just with more control and tightness than I have heard as of yet. Hopefully the meet I am going to this Saturday can help me set some goals._

 


 From my understanding, the Sextett's are pretty bassy. I may try them if the D2000's I ordered are too bassy. I too love tight, crisp detailed bass, almost like the Grado's. I may have to consider the Sextett's, and Sony SA5000. 


 How are the Sextetts, detail and soundstage wise?




 -Nick


----------



## nick20

.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my understanding, the Sextett's are pretty bassy. I may try them if the D2000's I ordered are too bassy. I too love tight, crisp detailed bass, almost like the Grado's. I may have to consider the Sextett's, and Sony SA5000. 


 How are the Sextetts, detail and soundstage wise?




 -Nick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If I had to guess, I will be going back to Grado fairly soon, they are what I have in mind when I asked about the controlled bass. Although I don't have too much to compare too (read: take everything I say with plenty of salt), I would say that the Denon's would have out trumped the Sextett in detail if it weren't for the overpowering bass for sure. Sound stage goes to the Sextett by a slim, slim margin. Even after saying that, I still prefer the Sextett over Denon even if they were comparably priced.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I had to guess, I will be going back to Grado fairly soon, they are what I have in mind when I asked about the controlled bass. Although I don't have too much to compare too (read: take everything I say with plenty of salt), I would say that the Denon's would have out trumped the Sextett in detail if it weren't for the overpowering bass for sure. Sound stage goes to the Sextett by a slim, slim margin. Even after saying that, I still prefer the Sextett over Denon even if they were comparably priced._

 


 Thanks. I wish the Sextett's were more detailed... otherwise I might be all over them.


----------



## Skylab

Just to provide an alternate opinion, I don't like the sound of the Svetlanas. They just aren't pretty to listen to IMO.

 If you want a leaner sound than a 6AS7, go for a nice JAN 6080. They are good sounding, just not as warm as a 6AS7, and they are cheaper than dirt.


----------



## Turgidson

What are the differences between a Tung-Sol 7236 and 5998 ? From what I've read, the 7236 is said to be a replacement for the 5998, but that doesn't mean they'd sound the same...


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of Tung-sol 7236's. They sound quite good, but I prefer the 5998, and the 7236es are harder to find and are even more expensive. The 7236's are leaner than the 5998, but less so than the 6080.

 IMO:

 WARM/LUSH - 6AS7G - 5998 - 7236 - 6080 - LEAN/BRIGHT

 EDIT: I see www.tubesandmore.com has 7236's on sale for $30 each...


----------



## nick20

FYI, 4 5998 tubes remaining. I sold 6 tonight.


----------



## malldian

Wow those went fast.


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow those went fast._

 

A few left. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 8 more posts to 1,500.


----------



## Skylab

Nick, how have you liked the CV1988 in your 336i?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick, how have you liked the CV1988 in your 336i?_

 

Headphones should be arriving tomorrow. The Denon D2000's, which may be too much, bass wise, as I'm looking for something along the lines of the Sony SA5000, K340, etc. I like detailed phones, with decent bass, which I've yet to find. 

 I had the AT:A2000's, and didn't like them at all. They had tight bass, but IMO comparable to the K701's, which I hate.


 Rob, what phones in your opinion are more detailed than the D2000's, and offer a generous amount of bass?




 -Nick


----------



## malldian

Nick whats the story, did you get my PM?


----------



## nick20

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nick whats the story, did you get my PM?_

 

Can you resend please?


----------



## keanej6

so for like the last year i've been messing around with cheap tubes and found that i liked my tung sol the most. so recently i bought a 1960's 6sn7gtb from tube world and it was like i got my amp new all over again. so a few days ago i ordered the 5998 tung -sol in the back, and WOWWW!!! my set up has never sounded so good. the tone and instrument separation and everything just sounds amazing. thought i'd put in my 2 cents here as i have always come here to see what combo others are enjoying with this fantastic amp.

 also tube world is an amazing place to purchase tubes. both times i received the tubes within 2 days of ordering.


----------



## Skylab

I also have gotten good service ordering tubes from Tubeworld.


----------



## malldian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nick20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Their really not bad tubes.. except the 5998 is a lot better in pretty much all aspects, but for the price, those are hard to beat.

 When you receive them, let members, here, know that you have 3 for sale, for $10 or $12 shipped._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs...ot-4-a-350757/


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs...ot-4-a-350757/_

 

Highly recommended. I've got this one combined with a RCA VT-231. I'm amazed.
 Looks like I'm not the only one:
Darkvoice 336 + 336i Tuberolling [ tubes ] - Page 37 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
  Quote:


 Svetlana 6H13C + Sylvania VT-231 = WOW! : ) 
 

Darkvoice 336 + 336i Tuberolling [ tubes ] - Page 38 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## pataburd

I never ran the 5998 in the 336i, but I actually prefer the Svetlanas to the Tung-Sol in the 337 (paired with the 6SJ7GT). 

 Coupled with the 6SN7 (in the 336i), I can only imagine how good the 5998 sounds! : )


----------



## cjs

After trying the tubes I will list below, the best combination was the Western Electric 421A with a Sylvania 6SN7WGT. [size=xx-small](Note that the WE 421A is identical to the less expensive Tung-Sol 5998, but not to the Tung-Sol 5998A. I got lucky on ebay with the 421A, otherwise I would have looked for a 5998).[/size]

Disclaimer: I am not an expert in tubes, or music, and I have not tried all possible combinations of the front and back tubes listed below. I am sharing impressions, in an effort to contribute to this excellent thread. Don't rush to buy or sell anything based on my opinions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Also note that I have a 336i, an EMU 0404 USB, and the AKG 701's. With another pair of headphones, a different combination of tubes may be better.


 So, I had been listening with a Sylvania 6SN7GT and a Svetlana 6H13C - an inexpensive but decent setup that I had found on this forum. I thought this was great, until a couple of months ago when I proudly asked a friend to listen to my setup. This guy is a musician and has experience with recording studios, etc. He thought the sound was good and detailed, but lacked midrange!

The situation called for immediate action so, after some research, I was off to ebay. When I returned from holidays last week, it was nice to find several packages waiting.

I started with the back tube, and replaced the Svetlana with a General Electric 5-star (military spec) 6080. This combo sounded relatively bad. No sound stage, no bass, no dynamic range, dry and flat. I concluded, mistakenly, that the GE6080 is a useless tube which turns the 336i into a solid-state radio. 





The RCA 6AS7G was an improvement, a lot of bass, mellow sound, power. I soon found, however, that the bass was too much: "blooming" overtly and with no detail.

 At this point, I decided to get rid of the Sylvania GT. The Brimar 6SN7GT proved an excellent tube - especially considering the price. More instrument separation and generally more "exciting" compared to the Sylvania it replaced. This was the UK Brimar I have, not the Brimar USA which looks and sounds just like the Sylvania GT. But the bass from the RCA remained unrealistic, even when I tried the two other Sylvanias with it: the 6SN7W and the 6SN7WGT.

Trying the supposedly great WE 421A with the Brimar in the front removed the bass but introduced confusion. Midrange was too much and too slow, making it difficult to separate instruments. The sound became "muddled". I thought: the 421A is not that great. 

So I tried the GE6080 again, this time with the 6SN7W: A totally different sound from when it was paired with the original Sylvania GT! Bass low but OK, soundstage OK, midrange OK, but incredible clarity! I could hear everything that was going on in _Handel's La Rejouissance_ from _Hifi News' Test Disk III_. And the acoustic guitar of _Robert Lockwood, Jr_, from his TELARC CD _Delta Crossroads_, sounded real too. Vocals is where I realized that something was seriously missing.

 I kept the 6SN7W and tried to mellow the sound with the RCA 6080. I thought: if the RCA 6AS7G is bassy and mellow, then maybe RCA did the same with their 6080s. (This should remove all doubt as to how much of an expert I am 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). In fact, the bass was a little stronger and the sound was softer. 

 I took out the 6SN7W and tried the 6SN7WGT with the RCA6080: Even more clarity and dynamics! This was a surprise because, from searching the net, I had thought the 6SN7W was the best front tube I bought. Granted, I got mine cheaply because of a cracked base, but it sounds strong and the slight hum on the left channel disappeared after 30 minutes of pink noise. With several pages on the net praising both the metal and the black base 6SN7W, I had expected it to be the best. I looked at the 6SN7WGT and realized that the plates have three holes (like the famous "bad-boy"). My 6SN7W has two holes and a short bottle. The difference in the sound is not too obvious but, with high quality sources, the WGT wins.

 Having realized by now that you cannot discount a single tube - only a combination of front and back - I decided to try the WE 421A with the Sylvania 6SN7WGT. And this is where I have stopped "rolling" for now (with the exception of also trying the 6SN7W with the 421A - to check that the 6SN7WGT still wins). There is detail, soundstage, separation, enough softness, dynamic range and, on top of it all, the midrange is fixed. There is realistic midrange but also clarity and quick dynamic response. Every source I have tried sounds fantastic with this combination. I never expected the 336i to improve so much.

Here are all the tubes used (click for larger photos):
 
[size=medium]Front[/size]

 Sylvania 6SN7GT VT-231




 Sylvania 6SN7GTB




 Sylvania 6SN7W, black base








 Sylvania 6SN7WGT






 Brimar 6SN7GT (UK)




 Brimar 6SN7GT (USA - a Sylvania?)





[size=medium]Back[/size]

 Svetlana 6H13C




 GE 6080




 RCA 6AS7G




 RCA 6080




 WE 421A





You will notice that I did not mention the 6SN7GTB. I tried it, but the volume was very low. I gave it 5 minutes to warm up, and although there was some improvement, the volume was still too low. Tried the pencil test and it is not microphonic. Perhaps this $0.99 tube is way past its better days. Or the GTB's "controlled warm-up" time is longer than I am willing to wait. I realize all tubes require from 10 minutes to half an hour to warm up to full potential, but volume should have risen fairly quickly?


----------------------------
Update:

Several months later, I have tried two more tubes:

 The *Bendix 6080WB* in the back:












 And the *RCA 5692 red-base* up front:










 The 5692, combined with the WE 421A, was an improvement over the 6SN7WGT. It seemed more responsive and clearer.

 For a few months I had been using this combination - 421A with the RCA red-base. Until a few days ago, when I found a pair of -very reasonably priced- Bendix 6080WB. In this thread, and elsewhere, I had read nothing but high praise for this tube so I was anxious to try it.

 Swapping it for the 421A, and leaving the red-base 5692, was rather disappointing. I tried to give this, theoretically superior combination, the best chance to prove itself but it clearly was a step down. It sounded "flatter", a little muddled at times, and too "solid-state". Where there was clarity, it was without as much "life": a lot of spatial positioning and transient impressions were lost. Of course, all this was in comparison to the previous setup.

 I left the bendix in place and replaced the red-base with the trusted 6SN7WGT. The change was striking! It was like my previous best combination, 421A with the red-base, only more "honest". The bass was equally present but even "tighter", the mid range was accurate but also colorful, perfectly separated, and responsive. The highs were impressive - almost got me worried that they were a bit too much until I realized that this is what they were supposed to have sounded like in the first place!

 So, to conclude my (subjective, untrained, and by no means "professional") roll, these are my best tubes for the 336i and the AKG 701s:


*Second place:*



> Western Electric 421A and RCA 5692 red-base


 
*First place:*



> Bendix 6080WB and Sylvania 6SN7WGT:


----------



## Skylab

CJS, what a great post! Truly excellent.

 The Sylvania 6SN7WGT is a terrific tube. Unfortunately, people are starting to discover this, and prices are going up. Not that long ago I could buy these easily for less than $50/pair. Now you have to work hard to get them for less than $100/pair. Still, they cost less than the 6SN7W, or something like the Brimar or (heaven forbid) the Tung-Sol round-plates which now go for $500/pair!

 In any case, again, excellent post.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cjs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So, I had been listening with a Sylvania 6SN7GT and a Svetlana 6H13C - an inexpensive but decent setup that I had found on this forum. I thought this was great, until a couple of months ago when I proudly asked a friend to listen to my setup. This guy is a musician and has experience with recording studios, etc. He thought the sound was good and detailed, but lacked midrange!_

 

Interesting observation. I have been running that exact combination and I think you are spot on about the midrange.
 I actually noticed a reduction in midrange when I upgraded to my current DAC and at the same time changed to a Sylvania tube (from Raytheon which was too dark with the new DAC). Since there were so many other improvements, I didn't really care.
 I recently tried a Tung-Sol instead of a Sylvania GT. I had a hard time telling those apart. Then I tried an RCA VT-231. WOW! There's the midrange back!
 That midrange is *so* important. I gives life to the music which I was missing a bit but no longer. I feared this would come at a price of more congestion, but guess what the congestion is virtually gone now. Heard the word 'panoramic' before.
 Moral of the story, keep trying until you're (even more) amazed.

 If you have the chance to try an RCA together with your Svetlana, that would be interesting how it compares to your Sylvania/WE setup.


----------



## musicmind

Awesome post CJS, thanks for taking the time to write up your tube rolling experiments with pics of the tubes.


----------



## malldian

Looking for a front tube to go with my driver tube (Tung Sol 5998). I use 325i's and Sextetts, any ideas?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *malldian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking for a front tube to go with my driver tube (Tung Sol 5998). I use 325i's and Sextetts, any ideas?_

 

Not everyone will agree with this, but a Hytron 5692 or JAN CRC RCA 5692 could work and avoid making the treble too bright with those headphones, while the Sylvania Badboy, Sylvania VT-231 and RCA grey glass VT-231 that I have are brighter and crisper treble but might be to much with 325i or sextett.


----------



## cjs

Thanks guys, I am glad you liked the post.

 AS1, I will keep an eye out for an RCA to try. Truth is, I forgot all about the Svetlana. At some point I should try it with my new front tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not everyone will agree with this, but a Hytron 5692 or JAN CRC RCA 5692 could work and avoid making the treble too bright with those headphones, while the Sylvania Badboy, Sylvania VT-231 and RCA grey glass VT-231 that I have are brighter and crisper treble but might be to much with 325i or sextett._

 

I partly agree. The CBS/Hytron 5692 is an excellent tube, if a bit mellow, but pairs very well with a 5998 with headphones that have a lot of treble energy. I like the RCA 5692 better than some - the issue is it isn't worth the asking price, IMO. Also I find the RCA grey-glass VT231 to be more on the lush/warm/slightly mellow side, whereas I agree about how you describe the Sylvania Bad Boy and VT231 (for those newer to tube rolling, the RCA VT231 and Sylvania VT231 have totally different construction, and they sound different).


----------



## malldian

The treble spark never bothered me and I think that might be why I am always rocking out with them on! I don't want to kill that sound too much. I will start looking into those tubes though, thanks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I partly agree. The CBS/Hytron 5692 is an excellent tube, if a bit mellow, but pairs very well with a 5998 with headphones that have a lot of treble energy. I like the RCA 5692 better than some - the issue is it isn't worth the asking price, IMO. Also I find the RCA grey-glass VT231 to be more on the lush/warm/slightly mellow side, whereas I agree about how you describe the Sylvania Bad Boy and VT231 (for those newer to tube rolling, the RCA VT231 and Sylvania VT231 have totally different construction, and they sound different)._

 

I haven't listened to the RCA grey glass is a while, as I have a matched pair and have been saving them in case I get an amp that needs a pair. Same with the Sylvania VT-231 and RCA grey glass which I have a pair of. But, I need to go back and look at my tube rolling comments in your HFI-780 thread where I was trying to find tubes to tame the sibilance. I used the RCA and 5692 and both Sylvanias then, I think.

 I believe I paid $50 for the brown-base Hytron 5692, and $70 for the Jan CRC RCA red-base 5692, so they are not cheap - but my Sylvania VT-231 cost me $60 shipped each, and the Sylvania Bad Boy was $70. I had a $40 Bad Boy that hummed and I returned it, but now that I have the Fitz Mod I could have used it. My RCA grey glass were closer to $40 each. None of my rear tubes were over $30 or $35 + shipping (Tung Sol 5998 and JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G).

 These tubes all make a big difference, and are much cheaper than trying to find a metal base GZ34 for my Woo WA6 ($400) or a Sophia Princess or Emission Labs rectifier for it at $150-200.

*[PS: cjs - nice post!]*


----------



## Brewmaster

Nice post cjs.

 I have ended up at basically the same point.

 A 5998 in the back and a WGTA with identical construction in the front.


----------



## cjs

Just a quick note to tell you that the RCA red base 5692, that arrived today, has displaced the Sylvania - for good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What can I say? This 412A/5692 combo is "full range"! Clear-cut, complete, and effortless everywhere. The "really being there" feeling!


----------



## malldian

Would anyone want to split this?

Hytron 5692 items on eBay.com


----------



## Skylab

I can sell you one of those tall-bottle CBS Hytron 6SN7GT's for 50% of that price if you want. PM me.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cjs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a quick note to tell you that the RCA red base 5692, that arrived today, has displaced the Sylvania - for good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What can I say? This 412A/5692 combo is "full range"! Clear-cut, complete, and effortless everywhere. The "really being there" feeling!

_

 

I still have the RCA 5692 in my 336i for my RS-1 and Edition 9.


----------



## notoriousmatty

Im just about ready to purchase my beyer dt880s and a darkvoice 336i for my starter rig. Since Ive read the 880s lack midrange im gonna need some tubes that give it a jolt. What are the highest regarded tubes in this category?


----------



## Skylab

One of the lushest midbands of a 6SN7 is the RCA grey-glass VT-231. And the RCA grey-plate 6AS7G for the back is also on the lush side - those two would make a nice combo for DT880's.


----------



## pataburd

x2 on Skylab's endorsement of the RCA 6AS7 gray plates. The Mullard ECC33 driver has beautiful midrange, too. 

 Has anyone successfully tried the Mullard or Chelmar CV-181 in the 336i? While not a direct replacement for the 6SN7, in applications that will admit the CV-181/ECC32(?), THIS tube has given me the best midrange I've ever heard. : )

 [I removed the erroneous reference to the 337.]


----------



## Skylab

I adore the ECC32/CV181 as well, but never tried it in the 336i (and of course it will not work in the 337 without significant modification to the amp).


----------



## leothan

Hi ,can help me chose which one is good for HD600,i like abit brighter and more bass for hd600 :
 1/Chatham 6AS7G
 2/RCA 6AS7G
 3/SVETLANA6AS7G
 4/ General Electric 6080
 thank alot


----------



## Skylab

If you want to brighten things up a bit, go for the GE 6080.


----------



## pataburd

I found the Svetlana 6H13C more balanced than the GE6080, for a "brightener-upper." Also, a Sylvania 6SN7GTB up front might help, too. : )


----------



## Skylab

And like the 6080 the Svetlanas are cheap as dirt.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the Svetlana 6H13C more balanced than the GE6080, for a "brightener-upper." Also, a Sylvania 6SN7GTB up front might help, too. : )_

 

I found a Sylvania 6SN7GT a bit more refined than a GTB.
 But I tried an RCA instead of Sylvania and never looked back...
 The midrange is stunning.


----------



## Skylab

The RCA gray-glass 6SN7GT is super-rich in the mids, no doubt.


----------



## Gollie

In this amp I loved the black base RCA 6AS7 in the back and Brimar CV1988 in the front. Great soundstage and detail although the Brimar is not that cheap...


----------



## Skylab

The Brimar CV1988 is a WONDERFUL tube. I use them in my MPX3. Expensive, but terrific.


----------



## paara

I recently ordered this selection of tubes for tuberolling with the DV336:
 1) 6AS7G - RCA 1950's black base
 1) 6080WC -Sylvania JAN 
 1) 5998 -Tungsol early 1950's
 1) 7236 -Cetron 1983 nos 
 and
 1) 6SN7WGTA - JAN-CHS-SYLVANIA 6SN7WGTA 1950's-1960's 
 1) 6SN7GTB - RCA 6SN7GTB 1950's 
 1) 6SN7WGTA -JAN-CTL-6SN7WGTA Tungsol NOS tall bottle "U" getter halo 1956

 I am thinking of getting a couple more preamp tubes to the DV336
 Anyone care to comment my purchase and suggest some other tubes which would make a good contribution to my small collection? 

 Thanks,
 Stian


----------



## Skylab

Nice tubes. You might want to look into a gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT, or a Sylvania VT-231, or both, since they are quite different sounding - the RCA very warm and lush, the Sylvania VT-231 being more bold and forward.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice tubes. You might want to look into a gray-glass RCA 6SN7GT, or a Sylvania VT-231, or both, since they are quite different sounding - the RCA very warm and lush, the Sylvania VT-231 being more bold and forward._

 

Thank you,
 I will add them to my list.
 Where do you buy tubes from? I orderd those tubes from tubeworld, Mr. Biever was very helpful and recommended them to the DV336. I think he did a very decent job. 

 Stian


----------



## Skylab

I have bought from tubeworld, Antique Electronic Supply , Welcome to TubeDepot.com! , Radio Electric Supply, from Audiogon seller Paul Lindeman, from people here on Head-fi, and yes, from EBay, since I own a tube tester.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I adore the ECC32/CV181 as well, but never tried it in the 336i (and of course it will not work in the 337 without significant modification to the amp)._

 

Just for curiosity: Will the CV181 work in the DarkVoice, at least in theory?
 And if it works will it operate on a voltage that alow for durability?


----------



## Skylab

Not sure - I have never tried it. I don't know if the DV can handle the higher current draw from the CV181.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just for curiosity: Will the CV181 work in the DarkVoice, at least in theory?
 And if it works will it operate on a voltage that alow for durability?_

 

I've read that in a majority of pre-amp applications the CV181 can replace the 6SN7, but it's always best to check with the amp manufacturer before trying anything. 

 I used the Mullard CV181 in my SinglePower MPX-3 with absolutely stunning results. It makes me want to try the CV181 with the Bada--once the Fitz-Max PH-12 "ULTRA" mods are completed!! : )


----------



## paara

I mailed the producers and asked, got this back: Äã·¢µÄÐÅÎÒÒÑÊÕµ½£¬ÄÚÈÝ¾¡Öª£¬Çë·ÅÐÄ£¡
 ×£Äã¿ìÀÖ£¡

 I dont understand the last part...

 Edit: apperently it was an automatic reply (Net easy mailbox automatic reply)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read that in a majority of pre-amp applications the CV181 can replace the 6SN7, but it's always best to check with the amp manufacturer before trying anything. 

 I used the Mullard CV181 in my SinglePower MPX-3 with absolutely stunning results. It makes me want to try the CV181 in Bada--once the Fitz PH-12 "ULTRA" mods are completed!! : )_

 

Same - the CV181/ECC32 sounds *awesome* in the MPX3. It's what I use as the driver tube. I bet 3 of them in your hot-rodded Bada would be awesome!


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same - the CV181/ECC32 sounds *awesome* in the MPX3. It's what I use as the driver tube. I bet 3 of them in your hot-rodded Bada would be awesome!_

 

Sky,
 Don't tempt me! I'm still licking my wounds from selling the Darkvoice 337 and absorbing the monetary concussion of upgrading the PH-12. : )

 I'd settle for one--just one--ECC32/CV181 (preferrably a Chelmer blackbase) when the Bada returns!

 If someone has tried the CV181 in the Darkvoice 336i/336SE, I'd be very interested in your impressions! 
 PAB


----------



## Skylab

You like the Chelmer black-base better than the Mullard Brown base? I have a pair of Chelmer black-base CV181's that I bought as a back-up pair since they are a little cheaper than the Mullards, but I have not used them.


----------



## pataburd

Lash me to the mast, like Odysseus sailing past the island of the Sirens! : )


----------



## ElephantTLK

What about this combination? http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=365 & http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=687. Would be this good?


----------



## Skylab

Both of those tubes are for the power (rear) tube. The second one (the 6AS7G "ST" shape") is the better tube IMHO.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElephantTLK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about this combination? http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=365 & http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=687. Would be this good?_

 

Those are both for the rear socket, and I prefer the JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G ($30) or Tung Sold 5998 ($40) for the rear - they are about the best you can get.

 I had a GE, Sylvania, RCA and Raytheon 6080 and most sounded more SS than tube. So, they may be good for tuning the amp to certain phones.


----------



## ElephantTLK

Ok thanks. What would you recommend for front tube from that store?

 Edit: could someone help me with good combination from that store?


----------



## Skylab

That store has a lot of nice tubes, but their prices are high.

 You might try this one, though:

http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=317


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ElephantTLK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks. What would you recommend for front tube from that store?

 Edit: could someone help me with good combination from that store?_

 

I had the most experience with the Raytheon 6080 they have, which was not bad, but not as lush as the two I recommended and slightly less bass than the RCA 6AS7G (the 5998 has mucho bass). Those 6080 may not pair well with a nice VT-231 in the front (too bright?).

 Of the 6SN7 type tubes they have, the cheap 6J5 tubes I have never tried, but they have many good Sylvania VT-231 that are one of my favorites, one of the best for the front. Open, airy spacious, detailed crisp, refined. I dont know which of the many to choose. I have kept one or two of these http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=819 that I will not sell, in case I need it again, it was that good. (I believe I kept one Sylvania bad boy and two Sylvania VT-231 in case I ever got a used Single Power tube amp).

 The RCA grey glass VT-231 is also excellent http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=316

 I heard many recommendations to get get a Ken Rad "black glass" VT-231, but theirs are clear, so I don't know how good theirs are.

 So, the choices they have for front tube are excellent.


----------



## ElephantTLK

Thanks guys! I thin k i know what to order. So sq should be improved over stock tubes?


----------



## Skylab

OH YEAH. The stock tubes are not very good.


----------



## skindog

I just aqquired a THA 336 with several front tubes yesterday.. Quite frankly i'm loving it, it's my first venture into tubes..

 After a few hours playing around with it I found the Brimar 6SN7GT brown plate to be the best sounding to my ears.. The rear tube is stock and want to know what would be the ideal match for the Brimar..

 Been looking at some suggestions in this thread but my brain is getting frazzled..


----------



## lnhd_113

i want some suggestion about tubes for 336 SE.


----------



## musicmind

Well, you found the right thread. If you dont feel up to reading through the whole thread, then this post is a pretty nice summary :

Darkvoice 336 + 336i Tuberolling [ tubes ] - Page 81 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## cjs

I have updated my original post with two more tubes: The Bendix 6080wb and the RCA 5692 red-base.

 Don't take it as authoritative please - there are many people here with much more experience than me. To decide which tubes to hunt for, I would leisurely read through this and other threads on head-fi


----------



## BIG POPPA

So I have a couple sets tubes ordered for the 336se on the way to play with. A Sylvania 6sn7gtb and a Jan 6080 made by GE from Ebay. And a Electro Harmanix 6sn7 and a Winged C 6as7g. I've seen some really expensive tubes for the amp. WOW. I will be playing with cheap tubes for a while I hope.


----------



## Skylab

Those all sound like nice choices except, IMO, the E-H 6SN7. That's actually a pretty awful sounding tube. But it's cheap so it makes a good emergency tube. Start with the Sylvania 6SN7GTB and the Svetlana 6AS7G, and then roll away from there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 6SN7's can get pricey. Look for a CBS/Hytron tall bottle 6SN7GTB - they are usually pretty cheap and sound REALLY good.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Rob, I have hit the search button pretty hard today and have not stopped buying tubes. Have another set in mind. At least tubes are cheaper than power cables. And I have several power cables. The CBS/Hytron is a little spendy right now online and so is the Bendix 6080. Have not been real serious with the tubes since I have not heard the amp yet. Yes I know there is an elusive Mullard ECC34. And those Russian tubes for around 100 bucks a pop. I should have about a dozen tubes to try by the time the Amp comes.


----------



## Skylab

yeah, tube buying can be super addictive - trust me, I know


----------



## babbu

Hi Guys. I am planning to buy a DV 336 E and would like to change tubes. Can someone pls recommend two reasonable prices and good sounding back and front new tubes? My budget is 100 USD. Also, could you please advice on where I should buy them? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Skylab

No offense, but I strongly suggest to actually read this thread first


----------



## babbu

Thank you Skylab but there are so many posts and I got somewhat confused. Can someone give some guidance to a newbie please? My headphones are senn hd650s and, as I said, I am planning to amp them with a dv336e, on which I would like to change tubes. Thanks!!


----------



## pataburd

How about an RCA 6SN7GT (about $30) and a Sylvania 6SN7GTB (about $20) for two reasonably priced front tubes and an RCA 6AS7G (grey plate--about $15) and a Sylvania 6AS7G (about $15) for rear tubes? This way, you get these 4 combinations: RCA(F)+RCA(R), RCA(F)+SYL(R), SYL(F)+RCA(R), SYL(F)+SYL(R). This way, you can get an "all RCA" (rich and warm) or "all Sylvania" (detailed, extended and neutral) flavor, or a nice complimentary combination of the two. 

 Go to Brent Jessie's website: 6SN7 TUBES IN STOCK to look at the 6SN7.

 Brent also has 6AS7 tubes, mostly RCAs. I've really enjoyed the Mullard 6080 in the 336i (about $20, but you have to order from England) and the Svetlana 6H13C/6N13S (about $10 apiece from Russia, the latter being easily found on eBay, for rear tubes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/6N13S-ECC230-6AS...3A1%7C294%3A50


----------



## babbu

Thank you very much!! Since I am based in Italy a European seller would be perfect. Do you know any good ones?


----------



## pataburd

The only European tube seller I've ever dealt with has been Langrex, UK, and various private sellers on eBay (e.g. for Russian tubes).


----------



## Skylab

Langrex in the UK is a very good tube seller.


----------



## SmallWalrus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tubes do have a limited life-span, although many will go 10,000 hours or more. So if you leave it on 24/7, you will burn up that life-span faster. However, for many of us, this is a non-issue - we'll probably change tubes faster than that anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Tube amps do produce heat, and tubes have the possibility of blowing, so best not to leave the amp on if you leave the house.

 As for the hum, some NOS tubes can take up to a WEEK to become as quiet as they ultimately can be. That's how long it took my NOS 6SJ7GTB's to become silent, but silent they now are._

 

Hi,

 What'd generally happen when a tube blow? Would it start a fire or something?

 Which leads to my other question... how do you know if a tube is about to blow? What if the tube blows while you are listening to a pair of headphones connected to the amp?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Have had a few tubes blow. I had a one spark internally, another had a channel go out, one that just turned off like a light bulb. Just par with the course with stuff that is older than you.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmallWalrus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 What'd generally happen when a tube blow? Would it start a fire or something?

 Which leads to my other question... how do you know if a tube is about to blow? What if the tube blows while you are listening to a pair of headphones connected to the amp?_

 

In some tubes the plates themselves (not the filament) will glow cherry red. But sometimes there isn't much warning. I too have had some just suddenly not come to life.


----------



## xchagg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmallWalrus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 What'd generally happen when a tube blow? Would it start a fire or something?_

 

I had a Sylvannia 6AS7G arc and give off a very loud pop during power-on. Quickly turned the amp (DV 336i) off in a hurry heh. The glass envelope did not break though.

 I swapped out the tube and the amp has been working fine since then.

 Did not have headphones connected at that time, so I don't know if a blown tube will damage them.


----------



## shiaokun

newbie here...

 got a used 336i and just started rolling tubes. spent a few days with the stock "plain Jane" Shuguang to have a base for future comparisons. btw, it's shu-guang. two Chinese characters. the phrase means the sunlight that breaks the dark night. 

 curious what their factory looks like? here's a tour:
¶V¨Ó¶V¦~»´ªºÀÆ¥ú¯uªÅºÞ¼t
 it's a Chinese audio magazine's article. if you're curious about a particular caption i can help with the translation...here's just some bits:
 the young guy is the third-generation. not even 30 and he's running the factory. 
 the older gentleman holding a 6AS7 (?) used to run the factory in the 60s. now he is the treasure of Shuguang.
 it all started in 1958. (They released some 50-year anniversary special editions of their tubes.) 

 Shuguang also makes some (expensive) tubes for other audio shops. for example, the Ming Da 6SN7:
Ming Da "Globe Trotter" 6SN7, priced per tube
ÃÀÐÇµç×Ó

 i'll stick with used U.S. vintage. 

 my current tubes:
 Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7GT
 RCA 6080 

 this combo costs me less than $5 and i am rather happy with the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still going thru this long thread and have yet to learn more about all the techanical things like getters, etc. i usually just stick the tubes on and enjoy the music.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Yeah, I have that combo and like it a lot. You can get a cbs hytron 6sn7gt dirt cheap also. That is a good score too.


----------



## pataburd

shiaokun,
 Have you tried the RCA 6AS7 w/grey plates? It would compliment the Sylvania very well, IMHO. Dr. Wells claims that the Shuguang works very well in the Bada PH-12, but I have yet to try the tube.

 With the 336i, I preferred the Mullard 6080 or the Svetlana 6H13C in the rear. The Tung-Sol 5998 comes highly recommended, too, although I've only heard them in the DV337.

 PAB


----------



## shiaokun

B.P.

 glad to hear you have, and like, the same combo. i do have a Hytron 6SN7GT. i'll bump it up on my to-try list. also got GE, RCA, Sylvania, etc. the usualy (cheap) suspects. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PAB,

 i have a RCA JAN 6AS7G and a bunch of 6080s. was going to try a GE or a RCA JAN 6080 but now i think i'll go for the RCA JAN 6AS7G in the next round. i am making slow progress as i'd like to spend at least a few days with a particular combo before i move on to the next. i also got Shelly's PF-mod MF x-can and i am alternating b/t it and the DV336i. it's going to take me a while before i go through the tubes i got. (Shelly already put in Russian tubes for the x-can. i'm concentrating on tube-rolling for the DV336i now.) 

 i thought anything Mullard made commands a high price? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shuguang makes quite a few 6SN7 types. i am still browsing the net to figure them out myself. so far there's the "plain Jane" (like $2 a bulb) and then there's an export version (sorry, i don't know what's the difference b/t the domestic and the export version). 

 there are at least two versions of their 50-year anniversary special editions: 
ÌÔ±¦Íø - Êï¹âÕäÆ·¹ÜÅçÌ¿¹ÜCV181-Z ºÚ²£ ÕäÆ·µç×Ó¹ÜÓù²Ø°æÒ²ÓÐ»õ ³§¼ÒÖ±Ïú
 $750 for a "normal" pair; $1180 for a collector's edition pair. 
 that's about USD$110 and 173. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shuguang also makes other CV-181 types. other than the Ming Da i mentioned, there's also another one for a Chinese audio shop:
Ö¾Æ½¸Ä½ø°æCV181,È«Ãæ³¬Ô½6N8P,ºÅ³Æ&ldquo;ÍòÓÃ¹ÜÖ®Íõ &rdquo;-Ó°ÒôµçÆ÷ - ÌÔ±¦Íø

 i wouldn't be surprised if there are more out there...so many tubes, so little time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you're curious, google 曙光 (that's Shu-guang in Chinese) followed by the tube model. you'll get lots of hits on the Chinese websites. 

 now, is there someone on this thread curious enough, and also with a deep pocket, to try any of these expensive Chinese tubes and share the experience with us?


----------



## Skylab

Someone was trying to sell those Shuguang CV181's on Audiogon for $250/pair, and for that price, I really doubt they will get many people to try them. NOS real Mullard CV181/ECC32's can be had for $350/pair - Chinese tubes don;t have a good enough reputation to warrant $250/pair for a re-issue like that. Plus the white base looks awful


----------



## shiaokun

i suppose you know that awful looking white base is clay.


----------



## greenarrow

Just received my DV 336SE. Since this is my very first tube amp, need some recommendations for some good tubes which can give me a SQ. Generally, my music is from the late 50's to the 90's.

 That's my DV 336SE with the Compass.


----------



## pataburd

My stock recommendation is: get an RCA 6SN7GT (~$20) and a Sylvania 6SN7GTB (~$20) as alternate front tubes, and an RCA 6AS7 grey plate (~$20) and a Sylvania 6AS7G (~$15-$20)--or Svetlana 6H13C (~$10) or Mullard 6080 (~$20)--as alternate rear tubes. That way you get the warm, rich sound of RCA and the neutral, detailed sound of Sylvania to either reinforce (RCA front/RCA rear, Sylvania front/Sylvania rear) or to compliment (RCA front/Sylvania rear, Sylvania front/RCA rear) one another; that's four different sonic pictures.

 There are "cost-no-object" versions of RCA and Sylvania, too, but my usual recommendation is what I've already written above.


----------



## Skylab

I think those are great recommendations. I like the idea of getting an RCA pair and Sylvania pair and then playing around with combinations. 

 I also think it's worth mentioning that a Tung-Sol tall-bottle 6SN7GTB (original USA made, not re-issue) and a Tung-Sol 5998 (rear) is a GREAT combination - that is what I use in mine.


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Sylvania 6sn7 and RCA 6080 is what I'm listening to at the moment. Easy combo to get used to for cheap. Maybe 15 bucks for both of them?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sylvania 6sn7 and RCA 6080 is what I'm listening to at the moment. Easy combo to get used to for cheap. Maybe 15 bucks for both of them?_

 

For a 6080, I liked the Mullard best with the DV336i, although I never had the opportunity to hear the famed and pricey Benidix 6080.


----------



## shiaokun

was going to stay with the Sylvania JAN-CHS-6SN7GT + RCA 6080 combo, but cannot resist B.P.'s suggestion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 my HYTRON doesn't say CBS. also it's a 6SN7 GT. what does the "FW" stand for?


----------



## Skylab

CBS bought Hytron at one point, but certainly there were many years where Hytron made tubes before the acquisition by CBS that would be branded only Hytron. I believe the fw indicates where the tube was made. In any case, that is a very nice tube


----------



## shiaokun

thanks, Skylab.

 i poked around the internet a bit...it was 1951 Hytron Radio and Electronics Company merged with CBS.

 here's a scanned 1954 pamphlet:
CBS Hytron tubes - a set on Flickr

 guess mine (13th week of 1951) was a stock before they changed the label. 

 it is a very nice tube indeed. no hum. sounds very "clean"...


----------



## shiaokun

new tube combo:

 Svetlana 6H13C, freshly arrived from pataburd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Raytheon 6SN7 GTA 280 6-17

 alright, how to decode the numbers with the Raytheon? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 don't have the camera with me. it is rather short; black base with yellow text.

 first impressioon: fuller voicing. like there's "more" on everything...


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ...
 I also think it's worth mentioning that a Tung-Sol tall-bottle 6SN7GTB (original USA made, not re-issue) and a Tung-Sol 5998 (rear) is a GREAT combination - that is what I use in mine._

 

Can I use the above combo for my 336SE? What kind of SQ can I have? I'm a tube noob here


----------



## tako_tsubo

Can I join in on this thread? I have an Eddie Current HD-300 amp which uses the same power and driver tubes. I want to thank all the contributors over the past 86 pages because the information has been excellent!

 I am currently using the HD 300 as a preamp into my Stax srm717 amp and find the combo very good to my ears. Subtle, but definitely there. I have gone from a Sylvania 6AS7G grey plate power tube (lush and balanced) to the TS 5998 and find it adds some needed dynamic punch to the bass of the Omega 2 that I have...and still maintains the great electrostatic mids and PRAT.
 Am still rolling in a few 6SN7's to get a sound with more detail in the upper mids and treble...which tube to get a more bold and forward sound in the highs?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greenarrow* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I use the above combo for my 336SE? What kind of SQ can I have? I'm a tube noob here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes. Skylab's recommendation was for the DV336, i or SE.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tako_tsubo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I join in on this thread? I have an Eddie Current HD-300 amp which uses the same power and driver tubes. I want to thank all the contributors over the past 86 pages because the information has been excellent!

 I am currently using the HD 300 as a preamp into my Stax srm717 amp and find the combo very good to my ears. Subtle, but definitely there. I have gone from a Sylvania 6AS7G grey plate power tube (lush and balanced) to the TS 5998 and find it adds some needed dynamic punch to the bass of the Omega 2 that I have...and still maintains the great electrostatic mids and PRAT.
 Am still rolling in a few 6SN7's to get a sound with more detail in the upper mids and treble...which tube to get a more bold and forward sound in the highs?_

 

I always thought that EC was a cool looking amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you want more extended highs, try a Tung-Sol tall-bottle 6SN7WGTA - this tube will have black offset plates and a brown base, and is almost always labeled with the JAN-CTL or USN-CTL military designation.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Raytheon 6SN7 GTA 280 6-17

 alright, how to decode the numbers with the Raytheon?_

 

280 = Raytheon manufacturer code
 6-17 = Y-WW date code


----------



## tako_tsubo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I always thought that EC was a cool looking amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you want more extended highs, try a Tung-Sol tall-bottle 6SN7WGTA - this tube will have black offset plates and a brown base, and is almost always labeled with the JAN-CTL or USN-CTL military designation._

 

Thanks Sky...will give it a try once I find one. It was one that was not on the list. Matching up the tung sols might be great.

 I have read too that the Raytheon vt-231 and possibly a Sylvania brown base ( not sure on designated number) would be good to try also.


----------



## shiaokun

Oskari,
 thanks for the info. i sort of guessed the 6-17 is the production year-week code. too bad it's not a complete year, or maybe you (or someone on this thread) can tell that by looking at the tube? i am attaching a picture. that's a quarter next to it. this is so far the shortest 6SN7 i have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 shiaokun


----------



## Oskari

Based on the looks and the one-digit year my guess is 1956. It can't be 1946 because the 6SN7GT*A* did not exist until 1950.


----------



## shiaokun

thanks!


----------



## greenarrow

OT here. I'v problem with opening up the bottom panel of the 336SE. I have loosen all the bottom screws and still cannot lift it up. Looks like there're some hidden screws which I've missed.


----------



## BIG POPPA

What about the screws under the stickers?


----------



## greenarrow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the screws under the stickers?_

 

sheessh ... missed that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks. I'm going to change the power switch and led and that's why I need to open the casing.


----------



## shiaokun

this week...

 Svetlana 6H13C
 Sylvania 6SN7 GTB E6B (on top)
 black base, green text: Sylvania/Made in U.S.A.
 mystery (again to me) code: 
 96
 83
 19

 very neutral as pataburd pointed out, this Sylvania + Svetlana combo.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mystery (again to me) code: 
 96
 83
 19_

 

This could be

 981 manufacturer code
 639 date code

 but the 981 is a dead end.

 Are you sure about those numbers? Photo?


----------



## shiaokun

Oskari,

 please check out the attached pictures...

 the first one shows the numbers.

 the second and the third are from differernt angle to show the inner works of the tube. hopefully that will help decoding this Sylvania.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hopefully that will help decoding_

 

Nope. Sorry.


----------



## FloydCouncil

Say fellas, I've found the "RCA 6SN7GT 6SN7 GT Amp Radio Vacuum Tube GREY GLASS '57" on eBay. I assume this will work with the DV 336? I know the DV takes all variants of the 6SN7, I just wanted to make sure that this is it.

 Shall I pull the trigger?

 I've ordered the 6H13C/6AS7G Svetlana tubes for the back.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I just bought these from ebay 




 I say buy the tubes. This is the fun part. Trying out different tubes. I have the Svetlana and like it. Like the RCA 6080 more. Don't know about the RCA 6sn7's though. Never listened to a RCA I didn't like. Loved them on my Figaro


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FloydCouncil* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Say fellas, I've found the "RCA 6SN7GT 6SN7 GT Amp Radio Vacuum Tube GREY GLASS '57" on eBay. I assume this will work with the DV 336? I know the DV takes all variants of the 6SN7, I just wanted to make sure that this is it.

 Shall I pull the trigger?

 I've ordered the 6H13C/6AS7G Svetlana tubes for the back._

 

These tubes sound very good with the Darkvoice 336. : )


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I found the grey glass RCA to sound very good, similar to the Sylvania VT-231.


----------



## shiaokun

another "mystery" Sylvania 6SN7 GTB this week...still paired with Svetlana 6H13C.

 not even numbers but codes. looks like "jd" or "id" and "BGB". it'd be nice to know what these mean...

 like the previous Sylvania, this combo has a "clean" sound.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_another "mystery" Sylvania 6SN7 GTB this week...still paired with Svetlana 6H13C.

 not even numbers but codes. looks like "jd" or "id" and "BGB". it'd be nice to know what these mean...

 like the previous Sylvania, this combo has a "clean" sound._

 

a lot of those are actually the same as a Sylvania 6SN7 GTB


----------



## FloydCouncil

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pataburd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These tubes sound very good with the Darkvoice 336. : )_

 

Yes, I made my decision based on recommendations in this thread. Now I just hope the ebay sellers send my shipments quickly. I paid on the 25th and I'm awaiting confirmation of shipping!


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_another "mystery" Sylvania 6SN7 GTB this week...still paired with Svetlana 6H13C.

 not even numbers but codes. looks like "jd" or "id" and "BGB". it'd be nice to know what these mean...

 like the previous Sylvania, this combo has a "clean" sound._

 

This is a later version of your previous specimen (in fact, the 639 could still be a date code for week 39 in 1956, even with that weird manufacturer code). I haven't seen these letter codes explained but you won't be far off guessing 1960s. I've got some Sylvania 6SN7GTBs which are very similar. These have green print on the glass and codes like ANU. They are probably even later than your red-print tube. I agree with the "clean" description. They are also perfectly quiet in the 336SE.


----------



## Skylab

Those short-bottle, halo-getter, offset T-plates are generally indicative of much later than 1956, aren't they? I have some like that I'm pretty sure are from the late 60's or early 70's. They sound pretty good, yes, although I prefer the earlier Sylvanias that are tall-bottle, bottom getter, and have the regular t-plates (not offset).


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those short-bottle, halo-getter, offset T-plates are generally indicative of much later than 1956, aren't they?_

 

That 1956 was in reference to this. Don't you agree?


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I was talking about the tubes in the post immediately above mine.


----------



## shiaokun

Oskari & Skylab,

 thanks for the posts. that's very interesting! i didn't think the numbers would go from top to bottom on a U.S. product.

 attached is a picture of the rest of my Sylvania collection. you can see the variations of the code formats. i've also tried to photograph the codes on the chrome tops, but it's just difficult with the reflections.

 (from left to right)

 the first one is a 6SN7 GT H2B; 313 (top-down). 13th week of 53? notice this one has almost half of the glass covered. 

 the second one is a 6SN7 GTB E6B. 981/639 (top-down). 

 the third one is a 6SN7 GTA E3B. 339 (left-right). 39th week of 53. notice this one has a taller bottom/base. 

 the last one is 6SN7 GTB H6B. "CM" as the code on the base. the text is yellow.

 both Sylvania tubes that have been used are perfectly quiet in my 336i as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 will start a GE run next week.


----------



## Oskari

Here are two younger Sylvanias for comparison. The left one is a 6SN7GTB (code ANU) and the right one is a GB-6SN7WGT (codes HF and SBV). The gold brand tube may look dirty but it is actually covered in a thin layer of storage grease!


----------



## Skylab

Right - those are more recent vintage.


----------



## jfourc

Wow, I can't believe I actually finished reading this thread finally. Thanks for all the input everyone. I got my DV 336se a couple months ago, and I haven't really had that much time to do research on tuberolling, but it's time to replace these stock tubes.

 I like Pataburds's and Skylab's suggestions of getting the following tubes:
 • RCA 6SN7GT gray
 • Sylvania 6SN7GTB
 • RCA 6AS7G gray
 • Sylvania 6AS7G
 • Tung-sol 5998 with Tung-sol tall-bottle 6SN7GTB

 I don't need to get all of them right away, but I was wondering if I could get some advice on buying these tubes or if some members are willing to sell me any of these tubes. Are there any good sites I should monitor for competitive prices besides ebay? Tubeworld looks promising since it has a huge stock, but I'm not sure about its prices; thetubestore looks good too. Also, is it safe to buy used for these tubes, or is it better to go with NOS?


----------



## Skylab

Tubeworld tends to be on the VERY high side for tubes. Some I have bought from with great success are Antique Electronic Supply and Vacuum Tubes Radio Tubes - 5,000 different tubes in stock - Over 10 million tubes! . AES has GREAT prices on 6AS7G's, and they sell pretty much exclusively RCA's. If you call you can usually get them to tell you brand and type available, and then it might make sense to get the 6SN7 from them too. I have been able to do the same via email from the vacuumtubes.net guys.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tubeworld tends to be on the VERY high side for tubes. Some I have bought from with great success are Antique Electronic Supply and Vacuum Tubes Radio Tubes - 5,000 different tubes in stock - Over 10 million tubes! . AES has GREAT prices on 6AS7G's, and they sell pretty much exclusively RCA's. If you call you can usually get them to tell you brand and type available, and then it might make sense to get the 6SN7 from them too. I have been able to do the same via email from the vacuumtubes.net guys._

 

Thanks Skylab, I had a suspicion that Tubeworld's prices were a bit inflated. I'll check with those two dealers that you mentioned.


----------



## glitch39

a few comments on gray glass bottles:

 It's commonly called smoked glass which is a graphite coating on the inside surface of the glass bulb. Its purpose was to "drain excess accumulations of electrons that could affect the operation of the tube". It is said that the later iterations used a different type of glass that was not prone to electron accumulation. 

 I have used RCA gray and clear glass tubes with identical plate construction. The sound is identical. Save some $$ by grabbing the clear glass type if you find those.

 The Sylv 6SN7's are also great sounding


----------



## BIG POPPA

I need some really thick syrupy tubes for my 336se. Have RCA 6080's and 6as7's and sylvania silver top 6sn7gta's, and hytron 6sn7gta's. I have my rig hooked up to a Synergistic Research QLS 9 powerstrip. The strip sounds great but lost the bass somewhere? We can talk how great this thing is another day. I'm hoping it is just a passing phase with break-in? Anyhow what direction should I go in with the tubes?


----------



## Skylab

OK what you need is an RCA grey-glass 6SN7GT. Use that with a grey-plate RCA 6AS7G, and that is as syrupy as you can get with the 336SE, IMO/E.


----------



## shiaokun

Oskari,
 your Sylvanias do look younger. mine have that 50's feel.

 this week, starting the GE run. the first one is a 6SN7GTA (the first one from the left.) i suppose the "188-5" is a factory code? three of them have it. the other one says 188-4.

 that leaves "4-09" as the date code? the 9th week of 54?

 oh, this one hums in the beginning. after about 45 minutes it went away.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Thanks for the heads up Skylab. Yeah I noticed a little more bass and that warm tube sound when I got the RCA 6AS7 today. Just wanted to make sure before buying more tubes. You can never have too many tubes Right?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 oh, this one hums in the beginning. after about 45 minutes it went away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is not so unusual for NOS tubes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ You can never have too many tubes Right?_

 

THAT'S for sure.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK what you need is an RCA grey-glass 6SN7GT. Use that with a grey-plate RCA 6AS7G, and that is as syrupy as you can get with the 336SE, IMO/E._

 

What he said! Double up on the RCA, and make sure the rear tube is the 6AS7G grey-plate, NOT black-plate. You do pay, though, with a bit of a softer presentation, very midrange rich, but a little hazy in the bass, too.


----------



## BIG POPPA

It won't have a softer presentation. I forgot to mention that the wall receptacle is an Oyaide R1 and with the SR it fixes the decadent sound of that. The sound I have with my 336se is pretty awesome. Just have to tweek the last 1% with some tubes. Tube roll, fuse roll, powercable roll. What next?


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oskari,
 your Sylvanias do look younger. mine have that 50's feel._

 

Yep. Your youngest one, I think, is later than 50s, though.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this week, starting the GE run. the first one is a 6SN7GTA (the first one from the left.) i suppose the "188-5" is a factory code? three of them have it. the other one says 188-4._

 

188 = GE
 5 = Owensboro, Kentucky (Ken-Rad) plant
 4 = maybe Owensboro as well

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that leaves "4-09" as the date code? the 9th week of 54?_

 

Yes. The 6SN7GTB was introduced in 54, and probably soon replaced the GTA introduced in 50.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oh, this one hums in the beginning. after about 45 minutes it went away. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

By the way, I Fitz-modded my 336SE with 220uF/25V Elna Silmic II caps but I haven't properly listenned to it yet.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It won't have a softer presentation. I forgot to mention that the wall receptacle is an Oyaide R1 and with the SR it fixes the decadent sound of that. The sound I have with my 336se is pretty awesome. Just have to tweek the last 1% with some tubes. Tube roll, fuse roll, powercable roll. What next?_

 

Maybe "softer" wasn't the best adjective to use. The RCA 6AS7G grey plate will bring expansiveness and a nice, open midrange, but bass will not be as prominent or punchy. 

 Try taking the power strip out and see if the bass comes back. Some (active) power conditioners can rob your system of dynamics.

 What next? 

 (1) Try some tube dampers. Herbies damping rings work well; the Duende titanium/teflon rings work even better, I think. You can get heat resistant "o-ring"-type dampers cheaply on e-Bay, and they work fine, too, for the price. Some damping, I think, can be beneficial; but you can overdamp tubes and deaden the sound, too.

 (2) Try isolation/vibration control under the amp. I used the Herbies gabon ebony Domes to good effect, or DH Labs cones. 

 (3) You can make a platform with five Vibrapods, five racquet balls and a piece of 3/4 inch MDF board on which to place the amp. I call it the "Cloud Nine-to-Five" DIY platform. 

 (4) I've also made small wooden boxes, about 2 inches deep, open at the top, and filled and levelled them to about 1.25 inches with fine sand. Cut a piece of 3/4 inch MDF to fit inside the inside dimensions of the box (offset about 1/8 inch in from all sides) and place over the sand. Put the amp on top of the MDF. This is one of the most effective and least expensive isolation platforms I've ever used.

 If you have a CD/DVD player as a source, then isolate it first, since it should benefit most from isolation/vibration damping.

 PAB


----------



## shiaokun

no kidding! just received a package of 4 6AS7G tubes:

 1. GE JAN-CG-6ASTG 5-39 188-5 (Oskari, thanks for decoding the factory code.) (P1440570)
 2. RCA JAN CRC-6AS7-G 3-04 then a mark S-C 177 (see the zoom-in pic.)
 3. RCA 6AS7 G 8-26 (P1440569)
 4. RCA JAN 6AS7G 69-39 (red text) (P1440571)

 i see there are grey-plate and blcak-plate RCA. can someone tell me which plate exactly am i looking at? the plates all look grey/black-ish to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 am thinking to have a GE combo next week.


----------



## Skylab

Little hard to tell but those all look like black-plate to me. The black plates sometimes look very dark grey; the grey plates are light grey and are unmistakeable.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Little hard to tell but those all look like black-plate to me. The black plates sometimes look very dark grey; the grey plates are light grey and are unmistakeable._

 

I agree that the gray is really quite light but it can look darker in photos. The attached photo gives one example. The plates look lighter than this in real life.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_4. RCA JAN 6AS7G 69-39 (red text) (P1440571)_

 

Based on the photo (and date) this could be a gray-plate tube but it is indeed difficult to tell.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2. RCA JAN CRC-6AS7-G 3-04 then a mark S-C 177 (see the zoom-in pic.)_

 

I've seen this mark before but I don't know the significance of it. The letters could be SAC.


----------



## shiaokun

my curiosity got the better of me and i replaced the Svetlana 6H13C yesterday, which had been running since May 11. 

 now using a GE combo. 
 6SN7GTA 4-09
 6AS7G 5-39
 both have the same factory code: 188-5

 that mark does look like SAC. i overlooked the A. 

 SAC = Strategic Air Command?!


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no kidding! just received a package of 4 6AS7G tubes:

 1. GE JAN-CG-6ASTG 5-39 188-5 (Oskari, thanks for decoding the factory code.) (P1440570)
 2. RCA JAN CRC-6AS7-G 3-04 then a mark S-C 177 (see the zoom-in pic.)
 3. RCA 6AS7 G 8-26 (P1440569)
 4. RCA JAN 6AS7G 69-39 (red text) (P1440571)

 i see there are grey-plate and blcak-plate RCA. can someone tell me which plate exactly am i looking at? the plates all look grey/black-ish to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 am thinking to have a GE combo next week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

#4 with red text is gray plate. the first three are all black plates


----------



## pataburd

Is that GE a rebranded RCA? I've never seen/owned one like that.


----------



## Skylab

It is an RCA - later production. I have a few like that. Mine are all gray-plate - they look MUCH lighter than that picture, but it must just be the light. 

 It does seem that the black-plates were all earlier production except for the shiny black plates like the ones in the GE tube above (the first in the picture) which I have somewhat recent (late 60's at least) Tung-Sol production.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is an RCA - later production. I have a few like that. Mine are all gray-plate - they look MUCH lighter than that picture, but it must just be the light._

 

Sorry, Skylab, what was this in reference to?


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, Skylab, what was this in reference to?_

 

I think he's answering my question about tube #1 on shiaokun's tube/picture list (the GE-branded RCA 6AS7). He mentions that he has a few 6AS7 like that (i.e., GE-branded RCA), but that his are all gray-plate types, then how easily distinguishable a gray-plate should be from a black-plate 6AS7.


----------



## Skylab

LOL - sorry - my first comment was in reference to the tube on the far RIGHT of the four original pictures, in response to the post by Glitch. 


 The second part of my post about the shiny black plates (with no shielding below the plates) is the GE tube in the "#1" left position.

 Sorry for the confusion.

 I have about 40-50 6AS7G tubes currently, and they do come in a variety of subtly different flavors:

 > Black vs. Gray Plates

 > Top vs. Bottom Getter

 > metal "shield" below the plates, vs. not

 There can be any combination of these things.

 And the 5998 and the GEC 6AS7G have completely different structures.


----------



## shiaokun

so i do have a gray-plate: the number 4 RCA JAN 6AS7G 69-39 (red text) (P1440571)! yeah! 

 will try that in the next round.


----------



## Koolind

Having listened to two RCA 6as7g's; one grey-plate with top-getter and one black-plate with bottom-getter i dont hear that much of a difference i must admit. At least the difference is very subtle i think ?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, that has always been my opinion. The difference between ANY of the RCA 6AS7G's is very, very subtle. What I call the shiny black plate Tung-Sol 6AS7G sounds a little more distinct, IMO. And the GEC UK made 6AS7G sound quite different, but they are physically very different as well. And then of course the 5998 sounds even more different, as it is, in fact, a different tube.


----------



## pataburd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koolind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Having listened to two RCA 6as7g's; one grey-plate with top-getter and one black-plate with bottom-getter i dont hear that much of a difference i must admit. At least the difference is very subtle i think ?_

 

FWIW, I found the grey plates airier, more expansive, more midrange rich and softer/more diffuse in the bass compared to the black plates. The latter, to me, sounded harder with the 336i. I thought the RCA 6AS7G black plates suited the DV337 better. With the 336i, I liked the Sylvania 6AS7, Svetlana 6H13C and Mullard 6080 much better than the RCA 6AS7G black plates, albeit, I never heard the 5998 with the 336i, though. : )


----------



## shiaokun

this week...interrupting the GE run for:

 RCA JAN 6AS7G 69-39 (red text) a grey-plate (thanks to all for identifying it!)
 RCA JAN CRC-6SN7-GT (used previously)

 just notice there are text etched on the 6SN7 glass:
 SPERRY No. 
 718115

 i am guessing these are some sort of supply no. since this is a JAN tube?


----------



## Skylab

Sperry was a computer maker (among other things). Apparently they had that tube in stock at some point.


----------



## shiaokun

thanks for the info. skylab. 

 i agree with pataburd re: the gray-plate sounds "expansive"...listening to a piano solo CD and it sounds like i am in a music hall.


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i agree with pataburd re: the gray-plate sounds "expansive"...listening to a piano solo CD and it sounds like i am in a music hall._

 

Depends ont the circuit. for this DV336, I think the gray plate is better. for the DV337, I'd go with the black plate.

 YMMV, of course. the difference may be subtle, huge or even zero. it all depends on how good your cans, DAC and transport are in discerning those differences.


----------



## shiaokun

received a new package with more tubes! yeah!

 since the RCA gray-plate RCA JAN 6AS7G was just put in last week, i am pairing it with a RCA 6SN7 GTB. 

 there's no date code, so once again go to the pcitures and see for yourselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i'd appreciate if someone can tell me more about it.

 "LQ"?


----------



## glitch39

that's an RCA 6SN7GT(B) with staggered flat plates and bottome getter (I am guessing D or square-shaped). It's a nice tube for the 336. nice extended highs from this tube.


----------



## pataburd

RCA made a later version, I think, of the 6SN7GTB with orange-ish print. I like the ones with the silverish print better. The RCA 6SN7GT gray glass was one of my favorite tubes for the Darkvoice 336.


----------



## Skylab

That's a pretty typical (relatively) early RCA GTB with flat black "ladder" plates. The GTB was introduced in 1950 I believe. In general, GTB's are considered to be not as good sounding as GTA's, or the older GT's, and of course the GTA and GTB are slightly different from a GT, which can handle less plate current than a GTA or GTB (the latter of which can be used completely interchangeably).

 RCA did indeed make several later versions of the 6SN7GTB - that is a very early GTB.


----------



## shiaokun

wow! thanks to all for the info.

 just took two more shots for the inner works...


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The GTB was introduced in 1950 I believe._

 

GT 1941, GTA 1950, GTB 1954.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"LQ"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Jan 60 shipment date. See RCA DATE CODES.pdf.


----------



## shiaokun

thanks! Oskari.

 now here are some off-topic pics.

 these are the boxes the latest batch of 6SN7 tubes came in with. i am not so sure that they are the "correct" packaging though. for one, i bought them as used tubes, not NOS. plus, 6SN7 was written on tapes attached to the sides and not printed on the boxes. anyway, some nice vintage tube boxes.


----------



## Skylab

Just "6SN7" would almost never even be printed on the box - it would say 6SN7GT, or 6SN7GTB, etc. So likely the boxes were for other tubes. But vintage boxes are very cool


----------



## shiaokun

back to the GE run this week...

 6SN7 GTB 60-09 188-5
 6080 62-09 188-21 from a differenct factory.
 do those stars mean anything?


----------



## Skylab

GE had a "line" of tubes call "5-Star". They were supposed to be premium selected. I have some 5-star 5751's, but have never seen a 5-star 6080. Cool!


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_188-21_

 

Schenectady, New York


----------



## shiaokun

SWEET! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i have a pair.

 it certainly sounds "different" from last week's gray-plate RCA 6AS7. slightly more forward would be my 5-hour only impression.


----------



## glitch39

5-star 6080's - that's a pair I have not seen before. Nice!


----------



## shiaokun

this week...

 GE 6SN7 GTA 3-52 188-4 what factory is that? Oskari. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 GE JAN-CG-6AS7G 5-39 188-5

 first impression? the sound seems lighter and faster than the last week's 6080/6SN7GTB. 

 speaking of the 6080...took a picture of the pair of the GE 5-star.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_188-4 what factory is that?_

 

Not sure. Probably Owensboro but could be elsewhere in Kentucky.


----------



## shiaokun

79 39 

 would that be the 39th week of 79? the RCA logo and the box design certainly have that 70's feeling.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would be be the 39th week of 79? the RCA logo and the box design certainly have that 70's feeling._

 

Agreed. Those markings with the dots are typical to GE.


----------



## shiaokun

received 2 SYLVANIA 6080WA. the text on the top one is rather worn; the bottom on has 6822. would that be the date code for the 22nd week of 1968? it also has etched text on the glass.

 also 2 PHILCO 6SN7 GTB tubes. the seller said the 312 make them SYLVANIA. that true?

 put one of each into the DV336i. very slight hum at the beginning. before the end of the first CD it's gone.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6822. would that be the date code for the 22nd week of 1968?_

 

It would.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shiaokun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_312 make them SYLVANIA. that true?_

 

Sure is.


----------



## shiaokun

was enjoying the last combo so much...(Russian 6H13C + Sylvania 6SN7 GTB) but it's tiime to try something different:

 Chatham Electronics 6080WA
 Du Mont 6SN7 GTB

 both came as part of mixed bag tube purchase. would appreciate any info.


----------



## Skylab

Those Dumonts are almost certainly Sylvanias. And as you can see, they were made in 1964 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure of the exact vintage on the Chathams, whether that is before or after Chatham was acquired by Tung-Sol.


----------



## shiaokun

been listening with Musical Fidelity X-can v3 (with Pink Floyd mod + Pinkie power supply) in the past weeks. 

 picked these for next week:

 RCA JAN CRC-6SN7-GT SPERRY No. 718115 (used previously)
 RCA JAN CRC-6080 56-52


----------



## Skylab

Today I tried the new Sophia Electric 6SN7 in the 336SE. The sound was very good; unfortunately, it hums/buzzes, as some tubes do in that amp, and it did not go away with break in. A pity - the Sophia Electric seems promising.


----------



## BobinNJ

Well, it's be a fun first month with the amp. I've been doing some tuberolling, with combinations of mostly RCA and Tung-Sols. Following Skylab's lead, my latest combo is a TS 5998 for power & an RCA 6F8G input on a 6SN7 adaptor. This is, unfortunately, the first tube to hum. The tube's been running for about 5 hours, and it's about half as loud as it was originally. I'll leave the amp on tonight & see what happens tomorrow. So far, I like the sound, even with the hum. Lot's of detail, nice soundstage, and some reduction in the overall brightness that the Grados tend to have.
 All in all, having lots of fun.


----------



## Skylab

One note about 6F8G's - I have found that, when used with a 5998, had the wire that runs to the grid cap can pick up a buzz. Make sure that this wire is "dressed" so that it's opposite the 5998 if at all possible.


----------



## BobinNJ

Thanks for the advice. This morning, most of the hum was gone, and in turning the wire away from the power tube, the hum is now barely audible. I'm really pleased NOW!
 Thanks again.


----------



## shiaokun

Skylab,

 thanks for sharing that! was rather curious myself. sophiaelectric lists three different grades of their 6SN7 tubes. did you go for the top 10%?

 my vintage RCA tubes are dead quiet. after spending some time with the x-can v3 i now appreciate my 336i more. their voicing is just different. am so glad i can switch between these two.


----------



## Skylab

No, I went for the mid-grade. I don't like the whole 'grade" thing. That was not why it hummed in the 336, though - they were quiet in another amp I have.


----------



## Oskari

Any listening impressions, shiaokun? Are you still rolling?


----------



## dunski

Hey guys, anyone have the Bendix 6080WB for sale? Skylab? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 PM me if you do.

 Thanks,
 Steve.


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of these, but they aren't for sale


----------



## dunski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of these, but they aren't for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 How does it compared to the Tung Sol 5998 when matched with the Tung Sol brown-base up front? I'm looking for a bit more *sparkle* in the highs and overall detail.

 -Steve.


----------



## Skylab

If you want more sparkle, this it will provide. Detail...not so sure. I think the 5998 is the detail king (understanding detail is not just in the treble).


----------



## dunski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want more sparkle, this it will provide. Detail...not so sure. I think the 5998 is the detail king (understanding detail is not just in the treble)._

 

Ahhh, now I gotta have it.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of these, but they aren't for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That sounds like me with my pair of Sylvania VT-231 or my Sylvania "Bad Boy", and I don't even have an amp for them anymore/yet.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed it is basically the same - I am not actually using the Bendix tubes - but I want to have a pair, in case I ever _want_ to use them


----------



## dunski

Just picked up an RCA 5692 red-base to match with my Tung Sol 5998. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dunski* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just picked up an RCA 5692 red-base to match with my Tung Sol 5998. We'll see how that goes._

 

That's a good match with Grados and Ultrasones, and then I would swap in a Sylvania VT-231 or RCA grey glass 6SN7 in place of the 5692 when I wanted to use HD600.


----------



## dunski

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a good match with Grados and Ultrasones, and then I would swap in a Sylvania VT-231 or RCA grey glass 6SN7 in place of the 5692 when I wanted to use HD600._

 

Nice. I have the HD600s and the K702s. I heard that the 5998 and 5692 is a great match for the K701/2s.


----------



## taskerc

Hi all,

 Working through this thread has been interesting and a bit exhausting 

 Does anyone have a 6H13C they are selling? I am interested in trying it and can't seem to find one on eBay now.

 PM me.

 Chris


----------



## BIG POPPA

Check it out. 2 SVETLANA 6N13S/ECC230/6AS7G BLACK PLATE! 1970!! - eBay (item 250538480228 end time Dec-27-09 10:25:54 PST) I saw this in ebay


----------



## Oskari

Svetlanas are not uncommon on eBay: 6n13s, 6h13c, 6n5s, 6h5c.


----------



## pataburd

6N13S = ECC230=6AS7G Svetlana Tubes Lot of 24 IN BOXES - eBay (item 370229975949 end time Dec-12-09 01:27:17 PST)


----------



## taskerc

So now I know 6H1C3 = 6N13S 

 I guess it helps when you know what you are looking for.

 And one is now on the way to me - thanks !

 Chris


----------



## Nooc

Thought I would check in:

 Someone mentioned that Sylvania 6N7GTB green print chrome top buzz a lot. There is no buzzing at all unlike the stock tubes which buzzed a lot. I'm using TS 5998 for the rear tube.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Hi, 

 I ordered a La Figaro 336. I will read all pages in my spare time but I'd appreciate if you give me answer now.

 What is the best tubes (power and driver) for DT880 2005EDT? I want more punchy bass and dont want rolled off highs. (I like their sharpness)

 Thanks...


----------



## BIG POPPA

Bendix 6080WB, it will kick you in the pants


----------



## Skylab

And use a Ken-Rad black-glass VT231 for the gain tube.


----------



## hasanyuceer

Thanks for suggestions..


----------



## RTF

While the thread is alive... I've skimmed through both 336 threads(getting a 336se) for good tubes for Grado sr80's and rs2's and found: 5692 brown-base, 5692 red-base, and a 5998 for the power tube. are there some other ones I might want to consider? Thanks for any help!


----------



## Skylab

Given the low impedance of the Grados, the 7236 is a good choice.


----------



## RTF

ty


----------



## leothan

Sylvania BADBOY 6SN7GT ,not so much in bass quantity BUT best in quality ,very nice bass control


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leothan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sylvania BADBOY 6SN7GT ,not so much in bass quantity BUT best in quality ,very nice bass control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My "Bad Boy" had good bass quantity when paired with a tung sol 5998. The detail and holographic soundstage were the best part of it to me. I liked it so much that even though I sold my 336i a year ago I wont sell my Bad Boy just in case I need it later.


----------



## leothan

yeb ,no need comment on detail of the BADBOY ,best of the best however for me ,the bass quantity is not much as the Kenrad vt131


----------



## freakydrew

95 pages is a lot to go through!
 Is there a specific tube number for the front and for the back for the darkvoice 336i? There are a tonne of tubes for auction on ebay and apart from 6080 6snt etc I have no clue.

 what happens if I buy a wrong tube? will it not fir or poke a whole in the universe?


----------



## BIG POPPA

What tubes were you looking at?


----------



## freakydrew

well there are a lot so I don't really know what I should be looking at. What I am doing is finding one, copy the number and then search this thread to see if it is mentioned.

 I figured if there was a specific number or numbers it would be easier.

 for example there is a FS right now here where the seller's wife is going to throw out his tubes...sounds like an opportunity but no clue which ones would work with the DVi

 thanks!


----------



## Skylab

Stick to the basics:

 Front tube is a 6SN7: 6SN7GT, 6SN6GTB, 6SN7GTA, 6SN7WGT, 5692, VT231.

 Back tube is 6AS7: 6AS7G, 6AS7GA, 6080 - and acceptable subs are 5998 and 7236, although those are much harder to find.

 Start with an RCA pair - 6SN7GT and 6AS7G. These are easy to get, and relatively cheap. Then you can upgrade from there is you are so inclined.


----------



## freakydrew

I bought these yesterday and now realize some may not work on the DV

 VTG Electron tube _ 6080 (T_262)
 VTG Radiocoin vacuum tube _ 6SA7 (488)
 VTG Radiocoin vacuum tube _ 6SD7 GT (497)
 VTG Raytheon vacuum tube _ 6SA7 (446)
 VTG TRAV-LER tube _ 6SN7 GTA (T_060)
 VTG electron tube _ 6AS7 (T_145)

 so much to learn! (first thing I learned, don't go on ebay while under the influence of neo-citran and cough syrup!)

 p.s. thanks skylab sorry to be a pest!


----------



## Skylab

6SA7 (S first, then A) will definitely NOT work. totally different tube from 6AS7 (A first, then S).

 6SD7 - also not usable.

 The first one and the last two on your list seem to be good, although it doesn't say what brand they are (no clue what "TRAV-LER" is - maybe some kind of rebrander - there were a lot of rebranders back in the day - in the USA, almost all tubes were made by GE, RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon, Tung-Sol, Western Electric, and Ken-Rad. Even "big names" like Westinghouse were 100% rebranders of the others' tubes.


----------



## freakydrew

I think they are all Raytheon
 are the non usable ones for me good for any other headphone amp? I would give them to anyone who could use them as they are no good for me!


----------



## Skylab

I have never seen an amp that uses a 6SA7 - it's said to be a "Pentagrid Converter" type - I don't even really know what that means - but it isn't a dual-triode like the 6AS7, or even a pentode, or rectifier tube...

 The 6SD7 is a pentode, slightly (but not usably) similar to the 6SJ7 used in the DV337 - but again, not possible to use in the 337. 

 So no - I would say those tubes are headed for the trash heap.


----------



## freakydrew

okay I just won these two on ebay:
 Ham Radio 6SN7 plus 12SN7 Vacuum Tubes
 Ham Radio 6080 Vacuum Tube

 they both are very shiny and are the colour of copper or brass.

 $9.00 for the pair, plus shipping

 will these work?

 no name on them


----------



## leothan

never try it before but as long as they are 6SN7 and 6080 type ,think they will work fine if I am not wrong


----------



## pataburd

6SN7, or equivalent, up front and 6AS7/6080, or equivalent, in the rear.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freakydrew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay I just won these two on ebay:
 Ham Radio 6SN7 plus 12SN7 Vacuum Tubes
 Ham Radio 6080 Vacuum Tube

 they both are very shiny and are the colour of copper or brass.

 $9.00 for the pair, plus shipping

 will these work?

 no name on them_

 

The 6SN7 and 6080 should be fine - you CANNOT use the 12SN7. 12SN7 is a 12-volt version of the 6SN7 (which is 6-volt - that's what the first digit in the tube type indicates).


----------



## freakydrew

thanks again Skylab..owe you a coffee too!
 just received the tubes I purchased from you, not had whole lot of time to listen but could tell a difference right away from what I had in there. amazing how much tubes effect (affect?) the sound! thanks!


----------



## freakydrew

Date code question:
 just received a Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB harp getter with the date: 322522-3
 my 336i cam with a Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB dated 08 09...
 anyway I am currently listening to the Electron 6080 with the new Tung-sol. really like the sound so far.
 Listening to vinyl, only concern is when the singer sings an "S" sound, there is a bit of a hiss, almost like a lisp. not sure where on the chain to correct this problem


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *freakydrew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my 336i cam with a Tung-Sol 6SN7 GTB dated 08 09..._

 

Pretty sure that is the current production Russian-made "Tung-Sol" - not really a Tung-Sol at all, other than in name. Does it say "Made In Russia" on it?


----------



## freakydrew

the one with the long string of numbers says made in USA
 the one with 08 09 is made in russia
 ?
 the 6080 is an RCA, made in USA 6-13, or maybe 6-I3?


----------



## Skylab

If I have it right, 322522-3 is 1952, second week, third shift. "322" is the EIA code for Tung-Sol for sure (and that is definitely a US made tube, yes).

 "6-13" on the RCA tube is probably the 13th week of 19X6, but it's hard to tell what the "X" is without knowing more. RCA has a bunch of different date-code methods, and while I have the "book" on their date codes, they weren't always consistent.

 RCA tubes are all "vintage" - no one has tried to "revive" that tube brand the way Russia's New Sensor Corp has tried to "revive" the Tung-Sol brand. Some RCA tubes were OEM'd from companies in UK, Holland and Germany, but all from the tube heyday.


----------



## freakydrew

I am amazed that the Tung sol is so old and sounds so nice.

 I also tried looking at a PDF version of the RCA book and found nothing. I guess it has to be before a certain date when RCA stopped making the 6080.

 Thanks


----------



## Skylab

I actually think the 6080 was made more toward the end of the tube era than the beginning.

 But I am use a pair of 1945 Tung-Sol 6SN7GT's in my Cary preamp - and they sound wonderful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Some of the best tubes ever made were WWII era and post-war era.


----------



## autosound

Hi guys, hoping you guys might be able to chime in on this one. I've had my 336i for almost a year now and have been somewhat avoiding the tube rolling threads because, first of all, it's confusing as hell, and second, I don't really want to get pulled into another wallet shrinking hobby. Well, the time has finally come for change and I would love some assistance. I hear that sylvania tubes are pretty good so I ordered these. They are supposedly SYLVANIA 6SN7GTBs. Are these any good? 

 I am using the amp with HD650s and K601+K701. I also have some Grados but I'm not worried about them too much. 

ebay - 1956 Sylvania 6SN7GTB

 Thanks


----------



## Skylab

Yes, that is a Sylvania, with the staggered T plates. For $5 it was a steal. I think they sound very good - not the world's best 6SN7, but far better than any current production Russian or Chinese equivalent.


----------



## autosound

Thanks Skylab, that's just what I wanted to hear. I'll have to grab a new power tube as well. Any particular tubes that will match my tube well?


----------



## Skylab

Start with an RCA 6AS7G. Good tube, easy to get, cheap. Then go from there.


----------



## KeeChoon

Anyone can help with deciphering these date codes from Tungsol 6SN7GTBs?

 322DH3
 322MW3
 322KN3

 And are there any sonic differences between the different brands of 6080 power tubes like RCA, GE, Sylvania?


----------



## Skylab

When tube makers started using letters, the date codes were "encrypted". I don't have the decoder ring for those


----------



## autosound

Hi Skylab, 

 I ran into some of your old posts and found that you liked the Jan 6AS7G Chatham Electronic tube which is actually the one I received with the amp when I bought it second hand. It does have alot of small fragments bouncing around in it, but it still works. I think I'll just wait until my driver tube comes in and see how they pair up.


----------



## Skylab

Yup - nice tube. A few glass fragments are no issue as long as the tube tests/works OK.


----------



## glitch39

For the power tubes, start with a 6AS7G. There are posts here about black and gray plate preferences. I'm sure it has to do with component synergy, but they sound the same to me. 5998's sound lush but at a premium price. and sometimes it can sound thin with the wrong driver tube. The Bendix is the only 6080 that really worked well for me. But it's darn expensive. 6AS7G's are the best all-rounder with great bang-for-buck IMO.

 For the driver, Raytheon VT-231 worked best. 

 If you are brave enough to roll, try the 6F8G, 7N7, 6CG7 - all needing adapters though. I settled on the 7N7 way back when I did this.


----------



## autosound

Wow, what a difference a tube makes. I now can clearly tell the difference between my ss amps and my 336i. The tube has added the warmth I always expected out of it and now I'm disappointed that I have waited so long. I simply love the new sound. 

 Now, after a bit more reading, a question has arisen. Is my Chatham 6AS7G simply a rebranded Tung Sol, and would buying a TS5998 be an improvement? Also, is GE 5998a for a power tube any good? Thanks


----------



## Skylab

Again, Tung-Sol *owned* Chatham for much of Chatham's tube days. So yes, they are likely the same tube.

 The GE 5998A is NOT a 5998, really. More like a relabeled 6AS7GA. Not worth more than $10 each IMO.


----------



## nsx_23

So I'm buying my first tube amp (La Figaro 336) soon, and can I take it all the tube rolling stuff in this thread will apply to my amp?

 Any "must-get" tubes I should look out for? Will be using with my HD650.


----------



## Skylab

The most important thing is to replace the stock Chinese tubes with some NOS/Vintage tubes. Even a pretty basic set of RCA 6SN7GTB and 6AS7G, which should cost no more than $30 USD total, will hugely improve the sound over the stock tubes.


----------



## Schoenberg

My collection of tubes!


----------



## nsx_23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The most important thing is to replace the stock Chinese tubes with some NOS/Vintage tubes. Even a pretty basic set of RCA 6SN7GTB and 6AS7G, which should cost no more than $30 USD total, will hugely improve the sound over the stock tubes._

 

How does the sound in general change? I was already quiet impressed with the stock tubes.


----------



## Skylab

It's hard to describe, but the sound will be less grainy, and it will be more transparent while also being prettier.


----------



## gordonshowers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's hard to describe, but the sound will be less grainy, and it will be more transparent while also being prettier._

 

LOL that's a great way of describing the difference!

 I wouldn't have had a clue how to put it into words that eloquently.

 Which is why you write such great reviews, of course.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I have it right, 322522-3 is 1952, second week, third shift._

 

The GTB did not exist before 1954. I would vote for week 22 of 1955.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The GTB did not exist before 1954. I would vote for week 22 of 1955._

 

Right - good point. Tung-Sol seems to use a bunch of different coding schemes.


----------



## nsx_23

Any good recommended sellers?


----------



## autosound

Well, I bought the Tung Sol 5998 with the green label to roll with my 336i. It sounds pretty good at high volumes but the hum at low volumes is unbearable with my Syl 6sn7gtb. Used this combo for at least 30 hours and the hum is still just as loud. The TS 5998 tubes were kind of expensive so I really would like them to work. So I'm hoping to get some advice on the "FITZ" mod as I am considering trying it.

 I am a finance guy with a soldering gun so I don't really understand all the terminology and parts but I have a simple understanding of it. Apparently I need to buy CATHODE BYPASS CAPACITORS. 100uF is recommended by Fitz, but others have suggesteded 220uF. I hear good ones should be used, but I have no idea what a good one actually is so I'd love some advice. Also, I can't get a low listening volume without one side of the volume cutting out. My understanding is that I would need to replace the volume pot to fix this. Is this a very difficult mod? 

 And finally, it may be a stupid question, but using a multimeter, how do I check if there are lethal charges remaining in the components. 

 Thanks for any help.


----------



## glitch39

@autosound - please do that Fitz mod. you won't regret it. if you need assistance, there may be some local members here who'd be willing to assist. It's not that hard.

 The hum WILL go away. Mine is soooo quiet - 5998, 7236, 6AS7G, VT-231, 7N7, 6F8G - you name it. any combo using these always result in NO HUM.


----------



## glitch39

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *autosound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is my Chatham 6AS7G simply a rebranded Tung Sol, and would buying a TS5998 be an improvement? Also, is GE 5998a for a power tube any good? Thanks_

 

forget the 5998A. not worth it. All 5998 tubes (not the 5998A) are made by TS, regardless of brand. Chatham 6AS7G is TS (like Slylab said). 

*RCA 6AS7G + Raytheon VT-231* will do wonders. Add the Fitz mod to quiet down the hum (if you have any). 

 Then enjoy the music.


----------



## autosound

I did the Fitz mod a couple of days ago and the hum is gone. Now I can finally enjoy my TS 5998. Thanks for all of the great advice guys.


----------



## nsx_23

Fitz mod?


----------



## Oskari

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dv-...tz-mod-353079/


----------



## gordonshowers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/dv-...tz-mod-353079/_

 

I wonder if that would help the new 332S owners that are experiencing hum?


----------



## glitch39

one thing I've noticed is that the amp seems louder than a non-modded unit. placebo, perhaps....


----------



## Just Julian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gordonshowers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if that would help the new 332S owners that are experiencing hum?_

 

nope, that didn´t work on the 332s.

 La figaro revised the 332s, and the newer version has no hum at all. it took some time, but they fixed the hum issues.


----------



## svfoo123

My 336i does not hum at all but did with certain tubes. Stay clear of the cheap chinese tubes.


----------



## pataburd

Mine hums with almost all Russian tubes, with my 6F8G and with an RCA 6SN7GTB.  Definitely want to do the Fitz mod.  Just ordered a pair of Nichocon 35v/100uF "Fine Gold" capacitors off eBay.
   
  (The 336SE is currently tubed with a 1960's Svetlana 6H13C and a Philco-branded Sylvania 6SN7GTB w/orange lettering.  This combination is dead quiet and sounds wonderful: clean, detailed, balanced and dimensional.)


----------



## shiaokun

hi, gang,
   
  it's been a while since i was here.  glad to see this thread is still going, going, and going...
   
  right now my 336i has RCA JAN-CRC-6AS7-G and GE 6SN7 GTA. earlier it had 6H13C and Sylvania 6SN7 GT. really enjoyed 6H13C so when a chance presented itself i bought like 20 of them for about $2.5 apiece. 
   
  recently i 'accidentally' (if there was ever such a thing) bought a WA3+ from a fellow head-fier. having them side-by-side sure calls for a comparison: they both use 6AS7 (although a 5998 came as part of the WA3+ package) but WA3+ uses two 6922/6DJ8 at the front. i am still alternating among the growing number of amps. it is 'true' that 5998 shows more details and the sound is more clear/clean, but this is really not a better/worse comparision. it depends on your headphone of choice and the music you listen to.
   
  no, i am not selling my 336i.  meanwhile don't have funding for more tubes.  instead of last year's one-set-up-a-week rotation i am adapting a longer listening period before rolling.
   
  happy listening and tube rolling!


----------



## cal8949

i just bought my darkvoice 336se amp and i'm all ready looking to get some nos tubes, i don't really know where to start and looking at this 97 page forum makes my head spin lol. could somebody please recommend me some tubes. I'm not looking to break the bank but i could spend up to $50 on a tube


----------



## Skylab

Cal -
   
  I would look in the "FS" forums here to see what tubes other head-fiers are selling.  That might be easiest.  What you want is one 6AS7G or 5998, and one 6SN7GT, -GTB, -GTA, or -WGT.


----------



## shiaokun

Cal, welcome to the 336 (i/se) tube-rolling thread. the great thing about the 336 is that it uses tubes that are easy to find and they are not expensive. of course if you want some fancy tubes there are out there...
   
  on my 336i right now are two GE tubes: 6SNT GTB, 56-13, 188-5 and 6AS7 GA, 61-04, 188-5. the 6AS7 GA is a bit odd for me. this is the only 6AS7 in my collection that has a 6080 tube shape and not the usual 6AS7 bottle shape. any idea?

  the sound is on the lean side. has a crispy feel. no hiss at all.


----------



## shiaokun

ended up spending three weeks with the GE 6AS7 GA. the first impression actually lasted. it's not exactly lean but just rather clean.
   
  starting today: a Raytheon JAN6080WB. still the GE 6SNT GTB on the front.
   
  the sound? the bass is clearly stronger. think this works better with Jazz/Rock/Blues.


----------



## shiaokun

'new' 6SN7 GT from RCA:
   


  there's low humming noise, but just on the 2nd CD. hopefully it will go away...can anyone decoe the "6-17"?


----------



## shiaokun

the humming is all gone...


----------



## Skylab

That's good news about the hum.  I have never seen a pair of RCA tubes with black glass before.  I'm thinking those are not RCA made - probably National Union?  or maybe Ken-Rad?  In any case, RCA date codes can be hard to figure, but I am guessing that yours are made in the 17th week of 1956,  based on this from the RCA Date Code guide I have:
   
   
  Quote: 





> From 1-46 to 8-56: For all tubes, the code was the last digit of the year) plus a
> month indicator comprising the RMNEIh week code, quantized to 04 (Jan.), 08
> (Feb.), 52 (Dec.), etc. Included is a "sales basis" code: a dash between year and month
> indicated tubes sold on an adjustment basis; no dash indicates sale on an allowance-inlieu-
> ...


----------



## shiaokun

hi, Skylab, thanks for the info. actually i only have one, not a pair. it's the same tube shot twice in different angles. cannot see thru the black glass so no way of telling the construction. the only transparent bit is the top. will post a picture later this week and hope that will help you solving the mystery.  shiaokun


----------



## shiaokun

the top view of the mystery black-glass RCA 6SN7 GT. hope this will help identifying which company made this...


----------



## shiaokun

installed a Sylvania GTB. yellow label. i suppose that 'CC' is a date/facory code? came with a box. you can see the hand-written price: 2.15.


----------



## shiaokun

back to GE tubes. think it has been more than a year since...


  this is a 'new' 5-star 6080 i got recently. it's not in the same nice cosmetic condition as last year's pair. sounds good nevertheless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i suppose somewhere down the road i might get a tube tester...


----------



## shiaokun

switched on a 6AS7G from Chatham. the front is still the GE. no hissing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  listened to 'Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff' from RCA, done by the Zenph Studios. the second half of the CD is the 'Binaural Stereo Version' of the first half, recorded with microphones placed on a dummy head. they claim this to be 'the ultimate headphone experience.' i think i need to listen to it a few more times to decide...


----------



## cal8949

I'm so jealous right now!!! i still haven't started tube rolling my amp after having it for 3 months but it looks like ill have some cash this weekend to buy tubes, hit me up if any of u guys got some to sell


----------



## shiaokun

switched on a 6SN7WGTA from TUNG-SOL. probably the most 'exotic' 6SN7GT in my collection. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  i've guessed USN = U.S. Navy. what about CTL? and does 739 mean anything? production year-week?
   
  it hissed a little in the beginning, but then quieted down before the first CD finished.


----------



## Skylab

CTL is the 3 letter Military code for Tung Sol.  Sylvania is CHS, RCA is CRC, Hytron was CHY, Raytheon was CRP, National Union was CNU, and GE was CG.


----------



## shiaokun

thanks!


----------



## shiaokun

this week's new combo:
 Westinghouse 6080 with a date code 70-17
 Raytheon 6SN7 GTB with a code C18
   


  the sound is more 'forward' than the previous set-up, feeling like sitting close to the stage.


----------



## Katun

Hmm, this thread is quite interesting.
   
  Tube rolling seems a bit complex though.


----------



## Jo6Pak

refresh my memory, please...
   
  after not having listened to my 336i in about a year, i have a newly regenerated interest in it.  one thing i don't remember is whether or not i should keep a load connected while it warms up.  what is the recommended procedure for warm-up these days?  keep cans connected or does it make any difference (to the amplifier output stage)?
   
  THANKS!
   
  Also:  I'm considering moving away from the Senns and perhaps try some Beyers.  I'm specifically interested in the 600 ohm versions of either the dt-880 or 990.  Will the 336i drive them suckers?  I believe my HD650s are of the older, 300 ohm variety, but can't recall for certain.  The DV has no problem driving those...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





jo6pak said:


> refresh my memory, please...
> 
> after not having listened to my 336i in about a year, i have a newly regenerated interest in it.  one thing i don't remember is whether or not i should keep a load connected while it warms up.  what is the recommended procedure for warm-up these days?  keep cans connected or does it make any difference (to the amplifier output stage)?
> 
> ...


 

 Rollin', Rollin', Rollin'....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I always have a load on the DV when I power up, whether I'm using headphones or as a pre.


----------



## Jo6Pak

thanks for that.  i remember doing it routinely before, but then i recall at some point someone saying it wasn't necessary.  guess i'll continue to do it...


----------



## shiaokun

a new set: NU 6SN7 GT (with a chipped base) + GE 6080 (not a 5-star and a bit cosmetic-challenged).
   



  remember the mystery black glass RCA? (see above and previous page for pictures). i see two things differernt: this NU has a clear bottom (no chrome coating); the top plate is round. does this mean the mystery black glass RCA is not from NU but Ken-Rad?
   
  hummed about two hours. quiet now.


----------



## rontruong

hi everyone, just bought the la figaro 336c.  I'm really excited to receive it soon.  So I'm new to this tube rolling thing and I will be spending time to read this thread and figure it out.  This 99 page thing is really daunting haha.  Anyways, are there any MUST get tubes, sorta like the standard typical good upgrade.
   
  If this helps, I like listening to electronic music and rock from 5-10 years ago and I will be using a dt880 250 ohm 2005 version.
   
  Any recommendations for the price ranges of
   
  <30 dollars
  30-50 dollars
  50-70 dollars
   
  for both tubes?
   
  THANK YOU EVERYONE!
   
  edit: oh just noticed the part 2 thread.. even more reading to be done  it has a nice first post
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/348833/darkvoice-336i-336se-tuberolling-partii


----------



## vintage64

Did the fitz mod on my Darkvoice 336SE - 220 uF output caps - to fit my HE-400. It is a dream come true ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 For me, the Shuguang 6N13P sounds best and beats the best 6AS7 and 6080 from US and russian origin (did not expect that). Well, the HE-400 is dark, so I guess the NOS bp 6AS7 is kind of an overkill, leading to a dull presentation. The Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z is unbelievable nice sounding. Beats every NOS 6SN7 from US and russian origin. For my ears only ?!


----------



## dhaninugraha

reading the first 15 or so pages from this thread made me pull the trigger on two 6AS7s; a grayplate Sylvania 6AS7G and a RCA 6080.
  I'm searching for 6SN7(s) as I'm typing this post.
   
  and I haven't even owned the amp.


----------



## tszazados

Quote: 





vintage64 said:


> Did the fitz mod on my Darkvoice 336SE - 220 uF output caps - to fit my HE-400. It is a dream come true !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Personally - my favourite is also the Shuguang treasure cv181 for my DV336se. Not too expensive and sounds magical. ...I have a Jadis cv181, too. I can tell you, it's also sounds great...
   
  But I never tried that 6n13p yet.... hm... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have only tungsol 5998,7236 and rca 6as7 tubes. Unfortunately I never  tried the legendary A1834 gec either.. Did you compared this Shu 6n13p to these or some of these?


----------



## vintage64

I dont use the shu 6n13p any longer. At the moment, the Sylvania 6AS7G is my favorite. Havent tried the tubes you mentioned, still a lot to tube roll ...


----------



## scottosan

I recommend that before spenging alot on boutique NOS tubes, get some sylvania 6sn7s as they seem to have the best chance is not humming. I have noisy tubes in about every brand that are noisy except the sylvanias. I am 5 for 5 with those and 2 for 3 with tung sols


----------



## hifimanrookie

A bit oftopic..but i have a good deal for u guys if u wanna upgrade to a better darkvoice

..as i know the 337 is not wellknown (a big disgrace!) its not easily sold...
So i decided to sell the TS tubes seperately and sell the 337 (last model 2010) with the svetlana's (rare vintage 70ties) and the rca 5693 red hot in it.

And now the interesting part for u guys:

My MATCHED pair of 5998 (chatham) and my super rare TS 6sg7gt mesh plates (totally silent!!!!) tubes i will be selling seperately..both are MATCHED pairs and were NOS when i bought them (5988 has 200hours, mesh plates 250)

For the 5998 i want 200usd and for the meshplates 60usd

And sell my (modded) 337 for the rediculously low price of 450 euro!

This is a great deal guys..this amp is very very very good as u guys maybe know...especially with the senheiser hd650/600, the hifiman he400/500 and grados! And the tubes..well..no words needed!


----------



## Beef Anus

Can someone recommend tubes that are widely viewed as being a step up from the stock ones (like how everyone agrees that mullards are usually the go to tubes on the little dot mk3)
  
 (and from what I understand, the bigger tube in the back is the power tube, does that have to be replaced?)
  
 Pretty clueless..
  
 just want to buy a toob amp and have it make beautiful music for me :3


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I'm trying to find power ratings for the DarkVoice 336SE, all I can find was Amazon showing 1W. Anyone know if that's per channel or total? And is there a Darkvoice website?


----------



## Rinx7

soundsgoodtome said:


> I'm trying to find power ratings for the DarkVoice 336SE, all I can find was Amazon showing 1W. Anyone know if that's per channel or total? And is there a Darkvoice website?


 
 Me too I think it might be good with the HE-4s.


----------



## dguitarnut

Couldn't resist pigeon drop and ordered a Darkvoice 336se . Does anyone know if the new units have been redesigned so that the capacitor fix is not needed?
Website for darkvoice http://darkvoice.net/en/intro.asp?loca=173&tlb=3
Power is rated at MORE than 2 watts. :rolleyes:
I corrected original post!!!!!of less than 2 watts


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

According to that link it's greater than 2w... 





dguitarnut said:


> Couldn't resist pigeon drop and ordered a Darkvoice 336se . Does anyone know if the new units have been redesigned so that the capacitor fix is not needed?
> Website for darkvoice http://darkvoice.net/en/intro.asp?loca=173&tlb=3
> Power is rated at less than 2 watts. :rolleyes:


----------



## doco

dguitarnut said:


> Couldn't resist pigeon drop and ordered a Darkvoice 336se . Does anyone know if the new units have been redesigned so that the capacitor fix is not needed?
> Website for darkvoice http://darkvoice.net/en/intro.asp?loca=173&tlb=3
> Power is rated at less than 2 watts.


 
 
 Characteristic parameters:
 Driven Resistance Range:          32 ～ 600
 Frequency Response:           10Hz ～ 30kHz (-1db)
 Signal and Noise Ratio:              > 100db
*Output Power:                       > 2W*
 Alternating Current Power:          220V/50Hz
  
 ???????


----------



## dguitarnut

Sorry a dyslexic moment!


----------



## MrEleventy

beef anus said:


> Can someone recommend tubes that are widely viewed as being a step up from the stock ones (like how everyone agrees that mullards are usually the go to tubes on the little dot mk3)
> 
> (and from what I understand, the bigger tube in the back is the power tube, does that have to be replaced?)
> 
> ...


Both tubes should be replaced from the stock. A good starter set is a RCA 6sn7 and RCA 6as7. Should be able to get both tubes for around $40 on eBay. "Best" tubes will vary depending on what you want 



rinx7 said:


> Me too I think it might be good with the HE-4s.


OTL amps typically don't work well with low imp/ohm HPs. HE-4 is rated at 38 so I don't know if they'll play well. I think you'll lose out on the bass end unless you do the mod.



dguitarnut said:


> Couldn't resist pigeon drop and ordered a Darkvoice 336se . Does anyone know if the new units have been redesigned so that the capacitor fix is not needed?


I have a 336 w/o the mods and I don't need to cap fix. It's only required if you hear a buzzing. Get it first and see if it's required.


----------



## happy5930

mreleventy said:


> Both tubes should be replaced from the stock. A good starter set is a RCA 6sn7 and RCA 6as7. Should be able to get both tubes for around $40 on eBay. "Best" tubes will vary depending on what you want
> OTL amps typically don't work well with low imp/ohm HPs. HE-4 is rated at 38 so I don't know if they'll play well. I think you'll lose out on the bass end unless you do the mod.
> I have a 336 w/o the mods and I don't need to cap fix. It's only required if you hear a buzzing. Get it first and see if it's required.


 
 I agree on both fronts. I replace with NOS RCA's. Both tubes cost me under 100$, and the difference was night and day.
  
 I found the 336 to be winy, and gritty at first, but the tubes surely opened things up warmly.


----------



## happy5930

HE-4 + 336 = a money setup IMO. Make sure to pickup a sold DAC, and interconnects I use Yacco's. For 50$ they can't be beat. http://www.audioreview.com/cat/cables/interconnect-cables/yacco/whirly-wisp/prd_446064_5827crx.aspx


----------



## cakebreaker

Just received DV336se with stock tubes. Left channel has a low buzzing. Is this matter of burning in or I have some sort of problem? I know that stock tubes is probably not the best option however, I'm worrying that there is a problem with the unit. It actually sounds pretty good so far but that hum drives me crazy. Any advise?


----------



## Aintin

Not exactly tube rolling, but i don't see to many other popular threads about my amp specifically. My 336SE has a hum that is barely detectable at low volume, and fairly noticeable when no sound is playing, gets louder as i turn up the volume, still there with nothing but a power cord in it, have a good cord on the way btw. I have kept the stock tubes, but plan to upgrade. so do you think its ground loop hum? and could i fix it with a power conditioner or something along those lines?
  
 PS. when you set this up as a preamp with some Cary CAD 805 mono blocks it just begs you to sit and listen for hours, so gentile and easy to listen, yet punchy bass and clear mids and highs, really has a certain magic to it. It gave my audio valve preamp a run for its four thousand dollar price tag. So, am i going to "upgrade" the tubes and go 0_0?(mainly use this with grado 325IS but just had to test it with carys and MY GOD this has to be the best preamp/headphone amp i have heard anywhere under the 1000 dollar range. To nitpick, the audio valve has slightly wider sound stage, and less bass, but i cant complain, i got it for about 110 dollars on mass drop after a late shipment reimbursement. (recommended general upgrade tubes that are not to expensive)?
  
 Thanks for any good help?
  
 WELL, that was longer winded than i had intended.....
  
 Again sorry for going off topic.
  
 *moved to a different electrical circuit did the same thing, and i do have a lot of dimmers in my house, pulled out the manual shut off switch on every one, makes no difference, tried a Pangea AC-9 power cable and no difference. I heard of a mod to stop other tubes from humming, where you solder in 2 220 uf caps at ~3 and 9 o'clock on the input tube socket and then to to a common rail? might this help?*


----------



## dguitarnut

I would try moving it to another room/electric circuit and see if that makes a difference. Sometimes a ceiling fan or even a rheostat can create noise.
 I would unplug and replug the tubes.      Also I have read burning in the tubes may cure it.    In the mean time get a set of tubes off of fleabay.


----------



## JohnBal

I have a 336i. Not too sure if there are any significant changes inside the amp (compared to the SE version), but with mine, some tubes will hum, others will not. Sometimes the hum will fade away as the hours pass. Sometimes not. So, in mine, the tubes are the culprit of any hum and a quick swap to another tube can make it go away... or get worse. (Usually the 6sn7) This was obviously more of a concern while I was tube rolling. I have since settled on a nice Bendix 6080 and Tung Sol tall bottle 6sn7 and havn't had any issues for a seriously long time.
 However, like the previous post said, the electrical conditions in the room can have some say in the amp humming as well.


----------



## Aintin

Are there a lot of tubes that go by different name than what mine is labeled on the front, (6sn7/6as7) or should i just stick to some RCA,s or something.


----------



## MrEleventy

The back one (6as7) can also take 5998, 2399, 6080 and 7236s as direct drop ins.


----------



## Aintin

thanks for the info


----------



## Nympho

Should I get a warm syrupy sound while not losing alot of detail and sound stage if I went with a 
 RCA 6AS7G gray plate
 and 
 RCA 6SN7GT black plate greyed out ?
  
 I am using DT990/250 which i would love to warm up and I later on intend on getting HD650 with a Brimar 6080.
  
 Sound like a plan?


----------



## Oskari

That is certainly worth trying.


----------



## Shaffer

I'm a new DV336SE owner. Hard to believe that I'm posting to a thread started in '06.

Like many, I found that some drivers cause a hum. Thankfully, 7N7s with Raytheon 6080 don't. Nor do the 7N7 with Russian 6AS7G. CBS 6SN7 (1959) tubes don't hum, nor do Bladwin 6SN7 bottles. All of the 6SN7s I have do.

Still going through the thread. About 2/3 through.


----------



## Oskari

Yeah, some tubes hum, some don't, and it can be loud! In many cases, (extended) burn-in helps. If not, there's always the Fitz mod.


----------



## Shaffer

oskari said:


> Yeah, some tubes hum, some don't, and it can be loud! In many cases, (extended) burn-in helps. If not, there's always the Fitz mod.




I've read about the Fitz mod. I'll look into it. Thanks.

Approximately, how long did it take your 336 to burnin?


----------



## Oskari

I don't quite remember anymore. Originally, with the Chinese tubes that the amp arrived with, it took at least several hours if not one or two days for the hum to disappear.


----------



## MrEleventy

I had a noisy selectron (6sn7) that calmed down after I left it on overnight, about 12 hours.


----------



## darksound

Who's using socket savers on their Darkvoice 336 and how do you like them? Please share which socket you're using them on (front only, or back and front both), and where you bought them from. I'd like to be able to roll tubes often without having to worry about loosening up or wearing out the built-in sockets!


----------



## beepover

I am a newbie, just got my darkvoice from Massdrop. The manual is in chinese of course and my wife does not want to translate for me. I was thinking of the rca grey glass 6sn7gt. From the Forums this seems to be the tube to get. That 6sn7gt seems to be only for the front tube. Do I have to change or recommended to change out the back tube if I change out the front tube?
  
Also any recommendations where to get tubes? 
  
I am using mainly a HD600. I use on occasion the HD650 and I do have an AKG 701 but almost never use it. So the target tubes are for the HD600 and somewhat the HD650.


----------



## JohnBal

beepover said:


> I am a newbie, just got my darkvoice from Massdrop. The manual is in chinese of course and my wife does not want to translate for me. I was thinking of the rca grey glass 6sn7gt. From the Forums this seems to be the tube to get. That 6sn7gt seems to be only for the front tube. Do I have to change or recommended to change out the back tube if I change out the front tube?
> 
> Also any recommendations where to get tubes?
> 
> I am using mainly a HD600. I use on occasion the HD650 and I do have an AKG 701 but almost never use it. So the target tubes are for the HD600 and somewhat the HD650.


 
 Hi, the front tube is the 6SN7, yes, the larger tube behind it is the 6AS7G (AKA the power tube). You can change either one without the need to change the other. But do not put the smaller 6SN7 in the rear position that the power tube would normally go. Or Vice Versa. That would be bad. The stock tubes that came with the amp are usually considered to be pretty poor sounding. You can find better ones cheapest on that auction site. Just watch the sellers feedback and cross your fingers when buying. Feel free to ask questions here.


----------



## listenothear

beepover said:


> I am a newbie, just got my darkvoice from Massdrop. The manual is in chinese of course and my wife does not want to translate for me. I was thinking of the rca grey glass 6sn7gt. From the Forums this seems to be the tube to get. That 6sn7gt seems to be only for the front tube. Do I have to change or recommended to change out the back tube if I change out the front tube?
> 
> Also any recommendations where to get tubes?
> 
> I am using mainly a HD600. I use on occasion the HD650 and I do have an AKG 701 but almost never use it. So the target tubes are for the HD600 and somewhat the HD650.




Hi, is it have enough power to drive them? I have similar phones, Im thinking on buying it.


----------



## donato

listenothear said:


> Hi, is it have enough power to drive them? I have similar phones, Im thinking on buying it.


 
 Way more than enough power to drive an HD650 which is what I'm currently using mine with.  I can't even turn up the volume up a quarter of a turn before it's way too loud.  I believe HD650 only needs 167mw per this thread and the DV is rated for over 2W (i.e. 2000mw).


----------



## rudra

donato said:


> Way more than enough power to drive an HD650 which is what I'm currently using mine with.  I can't even turn up the volume up a quarter of a turn before it's way too loud.  I believe HD650 only needs 167mw per this thread and the DV is rated for over 2W (i.e. 2000mw).


 
 Is the 2000mW at 32 ohms


----------



## JazzVinyl

rudra said:


> Is the 2000mW at 32 ohms




I don't know how many mw's it has, but agree that it is a very powerful amp. With 600 ohm Beyer's you can only go about 10 o'clock on the dial, before it's too loud...


----------



## cgouy

I have a shuguang cv181-z as the input, and a mullard 6080/cv2984 as the output. I'm really new to this. Can anyone suggest any other tubes to match these, or any other combinations? Using it with my Sennheiser HD600, and looking for warm and lush sound.


----------



## smy1

Anybody know if the darkvoice is good for the he560,lcd2 or hd600?

Trying to upgrade from the magni 2


----------



## circlecrystal

I don't like La Figaro like before I do.

From what I found, the capitalist of the company pushed their designer out of the company, then rebrand the product with a new name.

What worse is that, the design of their new products truly are terrible.

Please take a look at #23-#25:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/463488/the-darkvoice-la-figaro-332c-and-332s-impressions-discussion-thread/15


----------



## atarione

Hi... Tube Noob here.. got my DarkVoice 336SE yesterday..  been trying it out with the stock tubes.. 
  
 couple questions.. I've tried reading through this but I'll just admit I'm confused seems to be multiple model numbers that fit the same socket.. and then more that work if you get adapters??    I'll have to look through this more carefully.. because I'm lost.
  
 looking at ebay ... seeing everything for $5 to $500 tubes???   and then my head started to hurt...  I had been looking at some Slyvania 6SN7 GTB tubes.. seem to be fairly inexpensive.
  
 so:  with this.. I do not currently want to invest unlimited funds in just buying a bunch of tubes..  looking for bang / buck tube replacement recommendations for pairing w/ beyerdynamic DT880.
  
 also ? would I be correct in thinking that the preamp tube 6SN7 would have greater impact on sound quality w/ rolling than the power tube  .. I may want to just upgrade one tube for now and after xmas getting something for the other?
  
 I'd probably like to be in the $30~ (per tube) or less tube cost spot .      Alternately I've been liking this thing as it is... (never had tube amp before) I guess according to most stuff I've read the tubes generally get nicer sounding once they burn in some?.. I could just leave it alone for awhile also I guess?


----------



## tej789

Hello all, first post here.
  
 I just received my Darkvoice from Massdrop. I have noticed that when turning it up past 50% volume I start to get distortion and not much increase in volume. I have been trying to track it down to see if I can find a definite cause of it. I have tried using a Fiio E17K as an amp with both the headphone and output ports to see if it might be my headphones. With the E17K and turning the volume up on the darkvoice amp I can still notice some distortion, however, it is most noticeable when connecting headphones directly to the headphone port. Source is a turntable running through a phono preamp then into the Darkvoice. Headphones tested with are Klipsch Mode M40 and Audeze EL-8 Closed-back. My primaries are the EL-8s and I have to believe this thing should have no problem powering them and I shouldn't have any distortion. I am also thinking I shouldn't have to turn the volume up as much as I am having to.
  
 I have read some things about the tubes being bad from the factory and I'm wondering if that could be it. If anyone else has any other ideas it would be greatly appreciated. 
  
 Thank You.


----------



## PeteBrooks

I've had one of these amps (the 336i) for many years, for use with my HD650s my sweet spot is:
  
 Front: Sylvania 6SN7GT 1-52(1951 week 52)
 Rear: RCA JAN 6AS7G 2-39 (1952 week 39)
  
 Both were sourced NOS. Hummed a bit when first installed but very little, then disappeared. 
  
 After fitting these I've not felt the need to swap them out, very very happy.


----------



## PeteBrooks

listenothear said:


> Hi, is it have enough power to drive them? I have similar phones, Im thinking on buying it.


 
  
 With my setup (see my other post re my tube choices) it has no problem driving my HD650s, the volume knob rarely goes past a quarter turn.


----------



## Jim Spec

echo1 said:


> I was mistaken I guess. I thought you said that you had just done something different that improved the sound.
> But Back to the RCA, I just picked up 3 RCA 12sn7gt
> dark glass and with my CBS and Marconi tubes I fell that I can let go now of my remaining 6sn7 stock. I do have a 6sn7 smoke glass,not the heavy dark glass. I will let you have it for the astonishing price of sending some of that spare wire you have.I need some 22,20 gauge wire.And maybe some future advice?I still thank you for helping me.



How did the 12sn7gt work in the Darkvoice.  Did you find that the reduced voltage had any sonic impact?  Thanks in advance, JS


----------



## LinuxmasterD

Did anyone tried 6sl7 tube on DarkVoice 336se? Bought one by mistake(), is there any danger for the amp?


----------



## gibby

Has anyone had a problem with the 6AS7 tube no lighting up and no sound coming out.  I replaced mine and it still does occasionally.  I might go back to solid state.


----------



## LinuxmasterD

I would clean all eight contacts on the tube prongs and recepticle. Use sand paper, I have a Dremmel kit with different grinding tips, ussualy use the stone one, gently though. Than use any electrical contact spray. Wipe off the excess fluid to prevent a short.
Also, the tube has to be inserted under straight 45 degrees, not to lean on any side. After rhat, I'd check the 8 lines in the amp, coming of the base for loosenes. And their respective connectors on the other end. If the problem persists, it's beyound what you can do, short of diagnosing and replacing a condenser. Good luck, and don't give up the tube sound that easily, what cans do you use btw with the DV?


----------



## gibby

LinuxmasterD said:


> I would clean all eight contacts on the tube prongs and recepticle. Use sand paper, I have a Dremmel kit with different grinding tips, ussualy use the stone one, gently though. Than use any electrical contact spray. Wipe off the excess fluid to prevent a short.
> Also, the tube has to be inserted under straight 45 degrees, not to lean on any side. After rhat, I'd check the 8 lines in the amp, coming of the base for loosenes. And their respective connectors on the other end. If the problem persists, it's beyound what you can do, short of diagnosing and replacing a condenser. Good luck, and don't give up the tube sound that easily, what cans do you use btw with the DV?



Thanks.  I ordered some deoxit and will clean the contacts of the tubes and sockets.  I'll open it up too and check for loose connections.  I use the HD600, HD6xx, and TH-X00 with my 336se.


----------



## LinuxmasterD

Still hoping that somebody will answer my question about using a 6SL7 tube in DV, bought one by mistake, would reeealy like to try it on DV, but don't wanna burn the amp in the process


----------



## LinuxmasterD

gibby said:


> Thanks.  I ordered some deoxit and will clean the contacts of the tubes and sockets.  I'll open it up too and check for loose connections.  I use the HD600, HD6xx, and TH-X00 with my 336se.



These are all VERY good on 336se. I use AT ATH-W5000 on the 336se, and love the sound. If you pair the 336se with the right cans, you won't be able to beat that sound this side of $1k. Also, I noticed that a power cable is very important to 336se. I got the best results,low end authority and lushest midrange with Pangea AC9 MkII.


----------



## gibby

LinuxmasterD said:


> These are all VERY good on 336se. I use AT ATH-W5000 on the 336se, and love the sound. If you pair the 336se with the right cans, you won't be able to beat that sound this side of $1k. Also, I noticed that a power cable is very important to 336se. I got the best results,low end authority and lushest midrange with Pangea AC9 MkII.


  Oh, I bought a bunch of snake oil and pour that on everything to make it sound better.  It coats the copper for a perfect 115 volt supply of power.


----------



## atarione

LinuxmasterD said:


> Still hoping that somebody will answer my question about using a 6SL7 tube in DV, bought one by mistake, would reeealy like to try it on DV, but don't wanna burn the amp in the process




I was hoping someone would answer because I was curious... I googled it a bit.. and it sounds like if it would work it isn't a good idea...to use them instead of the 6SN7

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/11981-is-there-a-difference-between-6sn7-and-6sl7-tubes/

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/difference-between-6sn7-and-6sl7-tubes.653447/


----------



## diphaloraptor

Recently purchase the Darkvoice 336SE and HD6xx from massdrop. Ive been looking around for tubes that would pair well with the headphones. Ive done some digging and it seems that the Sylvania 6SN7GT (bad boy) and a TungSol 5998 are a great pairing. What other good pairings exist out there or is that version (bad boy + something) the agreed upon meta? Any help is appreciated.


----------



## LasherV

I've also recently purchased the Darkvoice 336se and will be recieving my HD6xx's in march. I've been going after some tubes on eBay and have found that they all are quite different. I have been using a Ratheon CK 6080 with a Admiral (G.E.) 6SN7GT and it sounded very good. I just recieved a new tube 15min ago, Best I've heard yet. A Tung-Sol 6AS7GT Black Glass Round Plate. Cost and Arm and a Leg but man what a sweet tube. I'm listening to it now and as it warms up it keeps getting richer and fuller. I have a 5998 on the way to put with it next week. Also not cheap but from what I've read here one of the best Tubes you can buy for the DV. Tubes cost more than the Amp lol. Oh well its all about the music right. This is my current setup: iMac-OL DAC (usb version)-Darkvoice 336se (Ratheon CK6080/Tung-Sol 6AS7GT Round Plate)- Monolith M1060 Headphones. Listening to Linsey Sterling "Shatter Me" album as I type and am loving it!


----------



## Jim Spec

I have used many tubes in my DV amp.  If you really like bass I find that most 6080 tubes will provide that amply.  I would suggest that you give the 6F8G a try.  I prefer the dark shaded RCA that can be seen in the attached photo.  You will notice that there is an adapter plug in the photo - you will need that adapter plug to make the 6F8G work in the dark voice.  In addition, I find the 6080 tube will normally run hot - hot enough to heat up the chassis of the amp.  The 6F8G runs considerably cooler and has a really sweet sound.  I have recently given up my DV for a Bottlehead.  I believe the Bottlehead is a better sounding amp, although, not by much.
Best, JS


----------



## LinuxmasterD

atarione said:


> I was hoping someone would answer because I was curious... I googled it a bit.. and it sounds like if it would work it isn't a good idea...to use them instead of the 6SN7
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/11981-is-there-a-difference-between-6sn7-and-6sl7-tubes/
> 
> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/difference-between-6sn7-and-6sl7-tubes.653447/



Finally get the courage to plug in the 6SL7 in my DV. It wormed up nicely, nothing happened, but the sound was heavily distorted, si I took it out fast, to prevent possible damage to the amp. So, nothing there. Ordered EH gold pins, can't wait. Last 3 weeks got stuck to GE 6080, wonder how it will pair with EH Gold. Anyone tried the Psvanes' UK, are they worth the asking price on Amazon? They do look impressive, though


----------



## atarione

LinuxmasterD said:


> Finally get the courage to plug in the 6SL7 in my DV. It wormed up nicely, nothing happened, but the sound was heavily distorted, si I took it out fast, to prevent possible damage to the amp. So, nothing there. Ordered EH gold pins, can't wait. Last 3 weeks got stuck to GE 6080, wonder how it will pair with EH Gold. Anyone tried the Psvanes' UK, are they worth the asking price on Amazon? They do look impressive, though



Yeah.. that is about what I expected.. at least it didn't blow the amp up =p  ... pretty different tubes I didn't think it was going to work well.


----------



## LinuxmasterD

Anyone on Psvanes UK? Amazon has them for around $60 each, or $99 matched pair, the latter with Prime. It says Hi-Fi series, I'm very tempted


----------



## diphaloraptor

LasherV said:


> I've also recently purchased the Darkvoice 336se and will be recieving my HD6xx's in march. I've been going after some tubes on eBay and have found that they all are quite different. I have been using a Ratheon CK 6080 with a Admiral (G.E.) 6SN7GT and it sounded very good. I just recieved a new tube 15min ago, Best I've heard yet. A Tung-Sol 6AS7GT Black Glass Round Plate. Cost and Arm and a Leg but man what a sweet tube. I'm listening to it now and as it warms up it keeps getting richer and fuller. I have a 5998 on the way to put with it next week. Also not cheap but from what I've read here one of the best Tubes you can buy for the DV. Tubes cost more than the Amp lol. Oh well its all about the music right. This is my current setup: iMac-OL DAC (usb version)-Darkvoice 336se (Ratheon CK6080/Tung-Sol 6AS7GT Round Plate)- Monolith M1060 Headphones. Listening to Linsey Sterling "Shatter Me" album as I type and am loving it!




Went dark for a while because my HD6xx arrived only a week ago, so I'm on the prowl for a good tube pairing again. Since you're one of two people to actually give a suggestion, figure I'd check in and see how your tubes were working out. Anything interesting? Did you find other good pairings?


----------



## diphaloraptor

Jim Spec said:


> I have used many tubes in my DV amp.  If you really like bass I find that most 6080 tubes will provide that amply.  I would suggest that you give the 6F8G a try.  I prefer the dark shaded RCA that can be seen in the attached photo.  You will notice that there is an adapter plug in the photo - you will need that adapter plug to make the 6F8G work in the dark voice.  In addition, I find the 6080 tube will normally run hot - hot enough to heat up the chassis of the amp.  The 6F8G runs considerably cooler and has a really sweet sound.  I have recently given up my DV for a Bottlehead.  I believe the Bottlehead is a better sounding amp, although, not by much.
> Best, JS



Thanks for the recommendations. Any good suggestions on the specific 6080 tubes that you have  used personally? Also, you mentioned you just ditched your DV, did you also let go of all of the tubes?


----------



## Hazi59 (Jun 12, 2018)

I recently joined the drop for the Darkvoice 336se on massdrop.  A buddy of mine gave me a lot of 9 tubes and I was unsure of how good or bad these tubes may be.  Any insight on these tubes would be appreciated (forgive me for I am a noob to tubes).

GE JAN 6AS7GA, Mullard 6080, Sylvania JAN 6080WC, Sovtek 6SN7GT, Electro Harmonix 6SN7EH, KenRad Black Glass 6SN7GT and Sylvania JAN-CHS 6SN7WGTA.  He also gave me a Chatham Tung-Sol 6336A, but I read in this thread not to ever use this model of tube as it will fry the thing...so that tube is a no go.

Thanks,

Nick


----------



## Jim Spec

You have a very good friend.  They should all work in the Darkvoice - in either the front or rear positions.  Best, JS


----------



## Jim Spec

diphaloraptor said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. Any good suggestions on the specific 6080 tubes that you have  used personally? Also, you mentioned you just ditched your DV, did you also let go of all of the tubes?


I still have many - about 50 - tubes.  Many will work in the Crack.  Most will work with an adapter.  There are some that I would sell if you have interest.  Best, JS


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## Jamie G (Jul 21, 2018)

So the thread's been quiet for a while, hope some of you guys are still about. Firstly, thanks to everyone that's contributed in this thread. I've been slowly working my way through since i first ordered by 336SE and you guys (especially the tube guru's...you know who you are) have the addictive world of tubes _slightly_ less intimidating.

So i'm currently still on my first run of replacements from stock, a GE 6SN7GTB paired with a Svetlana 6H13C and am really enjoying the upgrade from the Chinese placeholders it came with. This is my first tube amp but even I, with no experience thought it sounded almost SS as standard. I've also got a Sylvania JAN VT-231 (not a bad boy sadly) sitting patiently waiting its turn...i want to get a real feel for the current setup before switching, plus the Svet is a recent addition so am still learning how it sounds. I already have a list of tubes to hunt down and try...feels like i've opened pandora's box getting into tubes!

Anyway, enough rambling and back story. I've got a two part question. I'm close to picking up a dirt cheap RCA 6SN7GT but can't work out the code on it. See pic below




Does the 35 represent the third week of 1950?
Also, is this a grey glass 6SN7?

Lastly, the reason its going dirt cheap is that its untested. I know that's probably a bit of a no no, but could it hurt the amp or is the worst that can happen that it's simply a dud?

Thanks again for a great and informative thread people


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## yrun26

*Looking for some suggestions.*
Currently running my Darkvoice 336se with a Sylvania Jan 6SN7WGTA up front and a black base GE 6AS7G in the rear and listen exclusively with my Beyerdynamic T1v2's. While I enjoy the sound, the bass tends to feel inside my head and can be fatiguing particularly with music that has synth in it. Any suggestions with tubes that may open up the sound, especially with respect with the bass?


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## JKDJedi

So I really don't know what NOS 6SN7 tubes are considered le creme de le creme, but I kind of have an idea what new stock tubes might be, Sophiahttps://www.ebay.com/i/163472178030?chn=psand Black Treasure https://www.ebay.com/itm/CV181-Z-Sh...-6SN7-6N8P-6H8C/223139362664?var=521952360483 Or should I just go keep my sights on NOS tubes?


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## JKDJedi

yrun26 said:


> *Looking for some suggestions.*
> Currently running my Darkvoice 336se with a Sylvania Jan 6SN7WGTA up front and a black base GE 6AS7G in the rear and listen exclusively with my Beyerdynamic T1v2's. While I enjoy the sound, the bass tends to feel inside my head and can be fatiguing particularly with music that has synth in it. Any suggestions with tubes that may open up the sound, especially with respect with the bass?


I read 6080 tubes have a wide soundstage. Me personally found GE tubes to have narrow soundstage, at least in the rear slot, driver/power tube? And as of now my widest is a NOS Sylvania Philco 6AS7G (mid to late 50's). I have a cheap JAN NOS Sylvania Philips 6080 ($15)coming in end of this week, so hoping the reports are true. Might have to grab the Mullard made ones if this tube doesnt do it, but cheapest one I've found so far go for $100.


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## Mashi-Maro

Hi everyone,

I am late to the scene of the DV 336SE which I just picked up yesterday. Stock tubes sound pretty good but I am none the wiser coming from solid state. My headphones are Sony Z1R, AKG 802 and Senn x Massdrop 6XX. 

Could I please get some recommendations regarding what tubes would be best for these headphones (preference to the Sony and Senn).

Thank you so much in advance!!!!

Cheers,
MM.


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## Keno18

My new home for my 6sn7 mouse ears collection arrived today, but I need a recommendation for a replacement for the stock 6as7. So far love the sound though.


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## JKDJedi

Keno18 said:


> My new home for my 6sn7 mouse ears collection arrived today, but I need a recommendation for a replacement for the stock 6as7. So far love the sound though.


Everybody here loves the Tung Sol 7236.


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## Keno18

JKDJedi said:


> Everybody here loves the Tung Sol 7236.


Thanks for the tip, will be on the lookout. BTW, how's the 6sn7 hunting going?


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## JKDJedi

Keno18 said:


> Thanks for the tip, will be on the lookout. BTW, how's the 6sn7 hunting going?


Very good thanks, have a Westinghouse 6SN7GTB upper D getter (50's) coming in, highly recommended by a member here. Have a Shuguang CV181-Z (Mint condition) I'll let go for the right price if anyone is interested.  PM me.


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## dolgen

I just bought a used DV 336SE, and it sounds quite good with my HD6XX phones. But when I looked closely at the tubes, I realized that the seller made a mistake and I have 6AS7 variants in both sockets!
It has a RCA 6080 in the front, and a Shuguang 6N5PJ in the back.
  It surprises me that not only didn't it blow up (!), but it sounds quite good, even compared to some far more expensive headphone amps I have. Less air and treble than my "better" amps, but I'm enjoying listening to the DV, even with the wrong tube. 
  I've got a vintage 6SN7 on the way. I'm really interested in seeing the improvement (if any?).


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## JKDJedi

dolgen said:


> I just bought a used DV 336SE, and it sounds quite good with my HD6XX phones. But when I looked closely at the tubes, I realized that the seller made a mistake and I have 6AS7 variants in both sockets!
> It has a RCA 6080 in the front, and a Shuguang 6N5PJ in the back.
> It surprises me that not only didn't it blow up (!), but it sounds quite good, even compared to some far more expensive headphone amps I have. Less air and treble than my "better" amps, but I'm enjoying listening to the DV, even with the wrong tube.
> I've got a vintage 6SN7 on the way. I'm really interested in seeing the improvement (if any?).


Surprised less air and treble is more enjoyable for you. And yeah, crazy how that combo works! When you get your driver roll the ShuGuang and the RCA (with the new driver) for us with some impressions on sound please!


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## dolgen

JKDJedi said:


> Surprised less air and treble is more enjoyable for you. And yeah, crazy how that combo works! When you get your driver roll the ShuGuang and the RCA (with the new driver) for us with some impressions on sound please!


Forgive my poorly worded note... I actually prefer more treble and air, and the DV is perhaps too dark for me at this point. But it seems to work for rock music, which sometimes is a bit of an overload for my ears on my more transparent Auralic Taurus II. 
  I will definitely get back to this thread when I get the correct tube.


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## JKDJedi

dolgen said:


> Forgive my poorly worded note... I actually prefer more treble and air, and the DV is perhaps too dark for me at this point. But it seems to work for rock music, which sometimes is a bit of an overload for my ears on my more transparent Auralic Taurus II.
> I will definitely get back to this thread when I get the correct tube.


Lol..I knew what you meant.  Could be that tube combo you have right now, which tube did you order? And the 6080 might be your preferred tube for power, just a guess of mine. We have a lot of "experts" here that can help you find the right tube. Welcome!


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## searchingtom

The DarkVoice is a nice starting point for someone to play with the tube impact on sound.  Low cost of entry and plenty of tubes available to roll.  The problem is it will whet your appetite for more expensive gear


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## JKDJedi

searchingtom said:


> The DarkVoice is a nice starting point for someone to play with the tube impact on sound.  Low cost of entry and plenty of tubes available to roll.  The problem is it will whet your appetite for more expensive gear


I concur .. Im looking at it's big brother La Figaro .. just within reach.


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## searchingtom

JKDJedi said:


> I concur .. Im looking at it's big brother La Figaro .. just within reach.


There is a used one on eBay for a good price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/La-Figaro-...765104?hash=item48fb0fd8f0:g:yqQAAOSwK61gSSVn
$599 or best offer.


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## jpearson

Hey all, enjoying the collective wisdom here... About to dive into the Darkvoice club myself! I'm going this way because I want a warm sound with laid back upper-mids/lower treble that is a problem area for me - even in my HD series cans. (Sibilance is the enemy!)

I'm leaning towards Mullard 6080, but which driver tubes (to keep with the max warmth angle)? RCA JAN-CRC VT-231 or Ken Rad VT-231 are some options that seem to come up?

Thanks in advance!


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## JKDJedi

jpearson said:


> Hey all, enjoying the collective wisdom here... About to dive into the Darkvoice club myself! I'm going this way because I want a warm sound with laid back upper-mids/lower treble that is a problem area for me - even in my HD series cans. (Sibilance is the enemy!)
> 
> I'm leaning towards Mullard 6080, but which driver tubes (to keep with the max warmth angle)? RCA JAN-CRC VT-231 or Ken Rad VT-231 are some options that seem to come up?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Ken Rad


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## jpearson (Mar 15, 2022)

jpearson said:


> Hey all, enjoying the collective wisdom here... About to dive into the Darkvoice club myself! I'm going this way because I want a warm sound with laid back upper-mids/lower treble that is a problem area for me - even in my HD series cans. (Sibilance is the enemy!)
> 
> I'm leaning towards Mullard 6080, but which driver tubes (to keep with the max warmth angle)? RCA JAN-CRC VT-231 or Ken Rad VT-231 are some options that seem to come up?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I've done a bit more reading around this and it seems to me from various discussions that getting good synergy between the power and drive tubes is as important as selecting tubes based on their individual qualities! Does anyone here feel there's a better power tube pairing for the Ken Rad VT-231 dark glass than the Mullard 6080? RCA? Tung Sol? *Key point: this is not for soundstage/resolution but for relaxed listen - reigning in the Sennheiser upper-mids in particular* (I'm really sensitive to this region and lower treble). If I get a thicker sound generally/more low end that would be a nice bonus!


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## JKDJedi

jpearson said:


> I've done a bit more reading around this and it seems to me from various discussions that getting good synergy between the power and drive tubes is as important as selecting tubes based on their individual qualities! Does anyone here feel there's a better power tube pairing for the Ken Rad VT-231 dark glass than the Mullard 6080? RCA? Tung Sol? *Key point: this is not for soundstage/resolution but for relaxed listen - reigning in the Sennheiser upper-mids in particular* (I'm really sensitive to this region and lower treble). If I get a thicker sound generally/more low end that would be a nice bonus!


Mullard is your Huckleberry


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