# Audio-gd Compass 2 amp/DAC Impressions thread



## franmon83

I received my Audio-gd Compass 2 yesterday (default build with the 2 free TCXOs... not sure what those are supposed to change to the sound, but hey: they were free!), and I thought I would publish a summary of first impressions I got with the unit.
   
  While reading this post, keep in mind that I am still a neophyte audiophile and as such, I will try to do my best to describe what I hear in my own words. I am looking forward to reading about what other owners think about this unit (or comparable Audio-gd units) and suggestions as of things to try to improve the sound experience I am getting. Also, feel free to correct me if what I describe is inaccurate or if some of my manipulations don't make sense (still learning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  I upgraded from my first amp and DAC, which were the Fiio E9 and E7 and I am doing all of my listening with Sennheiser HD650s, which I love. It is also important to note that while I enjoy all kinds of music, I mostly listen to electronic based music. My music source is my Macbook Pro Early 2011, which sports an optical output on top of the usual USB and headphone out connectors.
   
  I did my first listening of the new Deadmau5 album downloaded from iTunes (256 kbps AAC, 44.1 kHz) through the optical output. I tried listening to the tracks through iTunes and Audirvana Free and did not hear noticeable difference between the two. I was somewhat shocked as to the extra details I was hearing that I never realized were there before. I am hearing subtle reverberation in between the kicks that I never heard before, which is great. Higher frequency details are clearer than what I'm used to while not being piercing at all. I am usually quite sensible to high frequencies and hate it when they are too loud and this is not the case with this unit. One thing that I find weird though is it seems to me that Mid-higher range seems to be overwhelming compared to the bass, which is normally the most present frequency range of this kind of music. The level of this frequency range seems too loud and it makes details not as clear in this frequency range as with the rest of the spectrum. Not sure I like that too much, but I should continue my listening experience to see if this is track related or not. Finally, the bass seems to be a bit lacking for my taste. Upper bass range is really detailed, but I miss the lower part of the bass range, maybe sub-bass. This becomes more obvious when I listen to some dubstep. As I start to play the first Rusko album, which has some of the bassiest content I know, I am a little disappointed as the mid section again seems to overshadow the bass section. Changing to USB, I did not notice a lot of sound quality difference, but I sometimes hear pops when doing the slightest bit of work on the computer (scrolling up and down on a webpage seems enough to trigger them) which I do not like at all. Maybe it could be because of the cable they packaged with the unit, or maybe it comes from the laptop itself. I should try to play from another USB source (either a Windows PC or maybe the iPad with the camera connection kit, if it's compatible... I have to verify). 
   
  The first time I tried the unit (yesterday), I was noticing a lot of digital artefacts while listening to my tracks compared to what I was used to (only in subtle, low-level details though). Maybe it has to do with the quality of my tracks, which mostly are iTunes 256kbps AAC, but some are lower bitrates MP3s (nothing below 160 kbps, some 192 kbps and some ~256 kbps variable bitrate). The more I listen though, the less I get this feeling. Maybe the unit has started to "open up" like I am getting used to read in this forum... or  maybe my ears are getting used to it...?
   
  Finally, I tried listening to tracks by connecting the unit through the headphone out of the laptop in the line in of the unit. In this case, the bass seem a little bit more present, the highs a little bit less clear, and the mids still a little overpowered, but the whole seem a little more balanced (in my opinion).
   
  I am going to let them warm up 24/7 and continue my listening experience for the next days/weeks and post back if my experience with the Compass 2 change. Right now, I am impressed with some aspects of it (the level of details of the playback, the clarity of the highs), but quite underwhelmed by some other aspects of it (popping sounds with USB, overpowering mid section).
   
  If any of you have suggestions as to some things I could try to fix the issues I'm hearing with the unit, please don't hesitate.

 Would changing the ES9018 for the dual WM8741 help improve the sound I get from the DAC?
 Should I fiddle with the sampling rate and bit per sample in OS X Audio and Midi settings?
 Should I use a third party software sound processing application (I own Joesoft Hear, but I did not use it for those listening tests)?
 What unit input/laptop output should have the best quality?
 Should I use low/high gain setting on the unit? Does it make a difference?
   
  All suggestions or comments are welcome, good or bad (suggestions must be good... only comments can be bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)! 
   
  Thank you for reading this.
   
  EDIT: I just installed the Moon OPA that I had ordered with the unit and now, I find the sound when connecting the headphone out of my laptop to the line in of the Compass 2 much better! The bass really come out, everything is still really clear, yet warmer and more pleasant to listen to. Less analytical I would say. The only problem is that OPA only affects the line input, not the DAC signal paths. This is a bummer, since I bought this unit over a standalone headphone amp because I wanted to bypass the DAC of my laptop, thinking I would get better sound. I will continue my listening and report any changes later on.


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## franmon83

Comments anyone? (Bump)


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## Clemmaster

> EDIT: I just installed the Moon OPA that I had ordered with the unit and now, I find the sound when connecting the headphone out of my laptop to the line in of the Compass 2 much better! The bass really come out, everything is still really clear, yet warmer and more pleasant to listen to. Less analytical I would say. The only problem is that OPA only affects the line input, not the DAC signal paths. This is a bummer, since I bought this unit over a standalone headphone amp because I wanted to bypass the DAC of my laptop, thinking I would get better sound. I will continue my listening and report any changes later on.


 
   
  Connect the line out to line in if you want to use the OPA 
   
  Edit: that's a joke


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## Painterspal

I've read several times that AGD DACs take a while to burn in and that was certainly true of mine, so I've give it a minimum of 50hrs before worrying too much. I'd also recommend using lossless files to evaluate it properly. The choice of gain options depend on how easy your headphones are to drive and how powerful the amp is. Higher impedence cans like Senn 650s generally respond better on the high gain setting.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Connect the line out to line in if you want to use the OPA
> 
> 
> Edit: that's a joke


 
   
  Is there any obvious reason why that wouldn't work? I thought about doing that yesterday, but I couldn't think of a way to configure the unit to do that... Input selection is either line in or DAC...


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## franmon83

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> I've read several times that AGD DACs take a while to burn in and that was certainly true of mine, so I've give it a minimum of 50hrs before worrying too much. I'd also recommend using lossless files to evaluate it properly. The choice of gain options depend on how easy your headphones are to drive and how powerful the amp is. Higher impedence cans like Senn 650s generally respond better on the high gain setting.


 
  Thanks for the info about your DAC! I figured that would be the case... I'm already starting to see a difference, but I was wondering if it was not my mind/ears playing tricks on me (to alleviate the pain of a potentially wasted investment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)... I'll keep going for at least a couple of weeks before making up my mind... That's why I labeled the thread as an impressions thread, not a review thread.


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## Clemmaster

franmon83 said:


> Is there any obvious reason why that wouldn't work? I thought about doing that yesterday, but I couldn't think of a way to configure the unit to do that... Input selection is either line in or DAC...




You cannot do that for 2 reasons:
- Input selection: you cannot use 2 inputs at the same time. The same goes for the headphone and pre outputs. I can't think of any device that can let you use 2 signal paths (DAC-> pre out + line in-> headphone out) at the same time.
- The volume control would be VERY tricky unless the line out can work at a fixed level (DAC out). You might blow the device/headphones if the gain is > 0dB.

Are you sure you cannot use the OPA with the DAC input? I know ACSS connections bypass the OPA in other units but I don't know for the integrated ones.


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## Hooster

Yikes, reading all this makes my head spin.... The Compass does not have ACSS.
   

 "Would changing the ES9018 for the dual WM8741 help improve the sound I get from the DAC?"
  It will make it different, but will it help? I have no idea.
   

 "Should I fiddle with the sampling rate and bit per sample in OS X Audio and Midi settings?"
  Sounds Greek to me.
   

 "Should I use a third party software sound processing application (I own Joesoft Hear, but I did not use it for those listening tests)?"
  Dunno, try it if you like. I would not touch the stuff.
   

 "What unit input/laptop output should have the best quality?"
  USB. If you are using the headphone output to the line in you are bypassing the DAC in the Compass. I very much doubt that the DAC in your laptop is better than the Compass DAC, but if you think so, fine. It is your equipment.
   

 "Should I use low/high gain setting on the unit? Does it make a difference?"
  High is supposed to be better, but if you hear no difference, who cares...


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## Kaptiva

I have a Compass2 on order as well. Planning to use it on AKG Q701. Having read this post makes me worried about the synergy since bass shy DAC/AMP sounds like a BIG NO NO for Q701. Anyway too late for the worries, I'll wait to try it out.
   
  I'd ask KingWa about the sound different between the DAC before. According to KingWa:
  ES9018 - more details, speed, tighter bass
  Dual WM8741 - warmer, heavier bass
   
  So if you find the bass lacking, maybe Dual WM8741 will suit you better.


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## Painterspal

Quote: 





kaptiva said:


> I have a Compass2 on order as well. Planning to use it on AKG Q701. Having read this post makes me worried about the synergy since bass shy DAC/AMP sounds like a BIG NO NO for Q701. Anyway too late for the worries, I'll wait to try it out.
> 
> I'd ask KingWa about the sound different between the DAC before. According to KingWa:
> ES9018 - more details, speed, tighter bass
> ...


 

 I wouldn't rush into this. The difference isn't likely to be night and day. Both versions will be designed to be neutral, so the different flavour will be quite subtle. More likely other factors are involved.


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## Currawong

FYI, especially with the HDAMs, the sound only settles down after 350 hours (100 hours at the factory during testing + 250 or about two weeks of being left on continuously). We had weird issues when we first were playing with HDAMs in various DACs, such as the treble disappearing for 50 hours. Overall though, I found that with use some harshness in the sound tends to disappear.


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## franmon83

Quote:  





> You cannot do that for 2 reasons:
> - Input selection: you cannot use 2 inputs at the same time. The same goes for the headphone and pre outputs. I can't think of any device that can let you use 2 signal paths (DAC-> pre out + line in-> headphone out) at the same time.
> - The volume control would be VERY tricky unless the line out can work at a fixed level (DAC out). You might blow the device/headphones if the gain is > 0dB.
> 
> Are you sure you cannot use the OPA with the DAC input? I know ACSS connections bypass the OPA in other units but I don't know for the integrated ones.


 
   
  From audio-gd website: "[size=small]The OPA only effect the sound flavor of line in . The built in DAC have not OPA in the signal channels . If users want to change the sound flavors , can exchange the DA modules." [/size]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But in any case, I've read more and more posts mentioning this kind of unit might take 200-300 hours burn-in before stabilizing, so I'll continue using the digital path and try to notice the differences as they go. If I experience noticeable changes with time, I'll report back.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





hooster said:


> Yikes, reading all this makes my head spin.... The Compass does not have ACSS.
> 
> 
> "Would changing the ES9018 for the dual WM8741 help improve the sound I get from the DAC?"
> ...


 
   
  I know the laptop does not have a "better" DAC than the Compass one, that is not the question. Right now, I experience issues of popping with the USB and I find musically smoother the headphone output at the moment (before significant burn-in) because of the sound characteristics that I enumerated in my first post. Now, I have already seen an improvement with the optical input sound, but my question's goal was to know what to expect from the unit. If USB should be the best, as you say, then I will have to determine, maybe with the help of Kingwa, why I am hearing these pops and how to fix it. Also, if one of the input is "supposed" to be of better quality than the other, I'm guessing (maybe I'm wrong) that if I burn-in the other signal paths, maybe that one will not improve.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





painterspal said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Don't worry, I won't rush into anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'll give it a good couple of weeks before making up my mind on what I like and dislike with the Compass. Then, I might decide to order the WM8741, even if it's just to try it out and measure myself the difference between the two (it is not that expensive after all).


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## HeatFan12

Congratz on your purchase franmon83...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These all-in-one devices are a lot of fun and various configurations can be had.
   
  I still own the FUN(A) (successor to the original Compass) and have tried it out with various sources, outputs, inputs etc....Lots of FUN..lol....Currently I am running optical from FUN ---> Pure i-20 dock (iPod Classic) ---> a tube buffer --> powered speakers.
   
  Good times..
   
  Cheers!!!


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## franmon83

Quote: 





currawong said:


> FYI, especially with the HDAMs, the sound only settles down after 350 hours (100 hours at the factory during testing + 250 or about two weeks of being left on continuously). We had weird issues when we first were playing with HDAMs in various DACs, such as the treble disappearing for 50 hours. Overall though, I found that with use some harshness in the sound tends to disappear.


 
  Hi Currawong,
   
  I had to look into the site's glossary to learn what a HDAM was, but now I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I learn stuff every time I visit this forum). Now, am I right in concluding that in the Compass 2, the HDAM is what is referred to as the Earth/Sun/Moon OPA on Audio-gd, and that as such, it should not be used when the signal passes through the DAC (only the via the line in)? Is there other(s) HDAM(s) already wired in the DAC signal path that I should know about? Finally, if there is indeed no HDAM in the DAC->amp signal path, does your comment regarding settling down of the sound still apply?
   
  Thanks to you and to all the others for answering my questions! I try as best as I can to figure most answers myself, but some information is harder to find out than others.
   
  Cheers


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## franmon83

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Congratz on your purchase franmon83...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks HeatFan12,
   
  Your helpful information and threads on the 11.32 and 15.1 gave me a lot of insight regarding Audio-gd and amps/DACs in general. I guess I will have to upgrade my recordings quality though in order to get the best out of this beauty! I keep discovering nice (and sometimes less nice) details in my collection which I never knew were there in the first place!


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## franmon83

Must say right now that Pink Floyd's "Have a Cigar" synths never sounded so good in my ears... Starting to like it


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## Hooster

This is the problem with hi fi. It is high fidelity to the source. Some sources might actually sound better with low fi gear. Nice to see you are discovering this.
   
  Regarding popping from your usb, It sounds like your computer has issues with keeping the data streaming.


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## franmon83

It is now 5 days that I have the Compass 2 and I must say it really starts to shine! I do not feel the bass lacking at all anymore (@Kaptiva you can relax, I'm sure you'll enjoy your purchase as much as I do now) and the details are so sharp, the voices so clear, its stunning. I am nearly always using the optical input now, so I cannot give an update as to the quality of the USB input. My initial observations relative to the sound being unbalanced with a strong bias towards the upper mids are not accurate anymore. Everything is at its place, instrument separation is really good, bass is deep, rich, yet bouncy. I threw lots of different music styles at the unit, and it now plays them equally well. I will continue listening to different stuff for some time, so I can be sure about what the definitive sound qualities of the Compass 2, but if it only manages to stay as good as it is now, I'll already be more than happy about my purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  I'm really curious though as to what explains this long burn-in time with solid state amps and DACs. I can understand that headphones, with all their mechanical parts, need some burn-in time, but I since everything in a solid state amp/DACs is static, I wonder what explains witnessing such a difference in sound after tens of hours of burn-in. If any of you guys know it or have a link to some documentation about it, I'd be grateful to learn about it. 
   
  Have a good one


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## Hooster

Quote 





> I'm really curious though as to what explains this long burn-in time with solid state amps and DACs. I can understand that headphones, with all their mechanical parts, need some burn-in time, but I since everything in a solid state amp/DACs is static, I wonder what explains witnessing such a difference in sound after tens of hours of burn-in. If any of you guys know it or have a link to some documentation about it, I'd be grateful to learn about it.
> 
> Have a good one


 
   
  Your brain is not static. it is an amazing machine that is constantly learning and adapting on a conscious and unconscious level. Your brain is getting used to assimilate the sound of the component. Put simply, you are getting used to it and learning to appreciate it. Call it burn in if you like.


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## Currawong

Quote: 





franmon83 said:


> I'm really curious though as to what explains this long burn-in time with solid state amps and DACs. I can understand that headphones, with all their mechanical parts, need some burn-in time, but I since everything in a solid state amp/DACs is static, I wonder what explains witnessing such a difference in sound after tens of hours of burn-in. If any of you guys know it or have a link to some documentation about it, I'd be grateful to learn about it.


 
   
  Heat I reckon. I ran the OPAs in a DAC/amp without any music playing as a test and they get quite warm. Exactly the same things happened to the sound over 250 hours as occurred with another set that had been running with music playing.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Questions...

I'd possibly get the Compass 2, as I was in love with my NFB-5 but let it go mainly because I wanted an amp with a line in.

1st:



This wasn't explained on the AGD website, but that is how I'd get the digital filter I used with my NFB5. Linear phase brickwall (up to 96khz).

However, in the NFB5, it was a simple touch of a button. Here... I don't understand that image at all. Can someone clearly explain where I'd do this, and if possible take a picture of it?

*edit: I see it now. The website has the WRONG pictures when you click.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass2moduleWM.JPG

THAT'S where you change the filters...*

Wait, the ES9018 doesn't have adjustable digital filters, right?


2nd

I'd obviously be using the line in, and would like to know if the line in is always going to have the op-amp in the signal path, and not ACSS, and if so, is it worth getting Earth over the stock op-amp? I had Moon on the NFB-5, and I couldn't tell between it and the stock op-amp... and barely thought ACSS was better than both op-amps by maybe 1%.

Right now, it's between the Compass-2, or the SA-31 and ODAC. I prefer the simplicity of the Compass 2 (as well as having a volume knob, and not buttons for volume control), and I'd be using either of these for the DT990/600.


3rd:

3600mW / 25 ohm (150mW class A)
2000mW / 50 ohm (300mW class A)
1100mW / 100 ohm (600mW class A)
400mW / 300 ohm (Full class A)
200mW / 600 ohm (Full class A)

I see that 25/50/100ohm show class A specs. How is it switched from class A to non-Class A? I don't quite get that, and I'd prefer to have the higher power specs.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





hooster said:


> Quote
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You're probably right up to a certain point, because I know the brain definitely has the power to modify your perceptions, hell it can even cure diseases! But, I doubt it is the only factor. To be certain (more certain), one should buy two units of the same model, burn one in for 250 hours and not touch the other one, then perform A/B testing on them with the same source material. Now, don't ask me to do that, unless you pay for the amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## franmon83

> Wait, the ES9018 doesn't have adjustable digital filters, right?


 
  Indeed, I was myself unsure when I got the unit, since the website is less than obvious about it, but the filter adjustments are only available with the Dual WM8741 upgrade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll let someone else answer your other questions though, as for #2, I only tried the stock OPA and the Moon one. I hear a little (not night and day for sure) difference between the two, but I cannot comment for the other two available ones. I have no clue what is your question for #3...


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## WizardKnight

In the future am wanting to buy a home DAC AMP. The Compass 2 has both USB and Optical inputs I am needing. Franmon83 have you tried the USB input anymore to see if you are still hearing popping sounds? I hope can see a lot more impressions here about the Compass 2. Please keep them coming in.


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## pb21cyclist

Hmm I like the sound of this. Can anyone explain, or point me in the direction, of what all the upgrades that seem to be available do?! Also would these be suitable for HE400s, I suspect they would but just want to make sure not being too au fait with amps.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Having owned the NFB5, which is a amp/dac with similar characteristics (and the Compass 2 improves further upon it), the HE400 would probably love the Compass 2.


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## Kaptiva

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 3rd:
> 3600mW / 25 ohm (150mW class A)
> 2000mW / 50 ohm (300mW class A)
> 1100mW / 100 ohm (600mW class A)
> ...


 
  I am guessing it will automatically switch between Class depending on power requirement of your load (headphone) just like some Class A/AB amplifier does. Looking at the output power of Class A, that will also means it will be running Class A for most headphones in the market...IMHO 
   
  I'd got my Compass2 yesterday. So far liking the detailed sound it produce very much. I'll let it burn in more to see if other sound characteristic changes. I am feeding it from MacBook Air USB output and heard some random "ticking" sound. Is that what franmon83 described as popping sound as well?? From Audio-gd web, it says that TXCO requires burn in time... hopefully after long period of burning in this will diminished. Will report back on this if it improves.


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## WizardKnight

I have been looking at pics of the Compass 2 and the USB input looks much taller than the USB ports on my laptop. Do you need some special type of USB cable for this DAC AMP? Also am curious if anyone has chosen any of the upgrades for the Compass 2 such as the DIR9001 SPDIF interface or the OCC wires upgrade? Does anyone think this would improve the sound quality?


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## franmon83

Quote: 





wizardknight said:


> In the future am wanting to buy a home DAC AMP. The Compass 2 has both USB and Optical inputs I am needing. Franmon83 have you tried the USB input anymore to see if you are still hearing popping sounds? I hope can see a lot more impressions here about the Compass 2. Please keep them coming in.


 
  Hi WizardKnight,
   
  I did not do further tests with the USB input, but I will soon. I'll update you once I get have results.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





kaptiva said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hi Kaptiva,
   
  It seems indeed to be the same issue. I will try this week-end to see if the issue is still present. If it is, I will proceed with some more testing to try and diagnose what is the source of this problem. It could be the USB port, the OS, the cable, the Compass itself (which I hope it's not). We'll see...


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## franmon83

Quote: 





wizardknight said:


> I have been looking at pics of the Compass 2 and the USB input looks much taller than the USB ports on my laptop. Do you need some special type of USB cable for this DAC AMP? Also am curious if anyone has chosen any of the upgrades for the Compass 2 such as the DIR9001 SPDIF interface or the OCC wires upgrade? Does anyone think this would improve the sound quality?


 
  A USB cable has 2 ends. The end that goes into your computer Type A and the end attached to the device is of Type B. There are also mini and micro variations of both types. What you have on the Compass 2 is a standard USB Type A to Type B, which by the way is the same cable as the one you would use for a printer.


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## WizardKnight

Thanks franmon83 for the info about USB cables. Hope the ticking or popping sound you and Kaptiva have with the USB goes away. Would love to hear more impressions of the Compass 2. Am curious how much an improvement in sound quality you get from it versus your stock equipment like iPhone 4S and Mac laptop because I have both.


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## Kaptiva

Quote: 





wizardknight said:


> Thanks franmon83 for the info about USB cables. Hope the ticking or popping sound you and Kaptiva have with the USB goes away. Would love to hear more impressions of the Compass 2. Am curious how much an improvement in sound quality you get from it versus your stock equipment like iPhone 4S and Mac laptop because I have both.


 
  To me the sound improvement compares to direct pairing with laptop n iPod/iphone is night and days for AKG Q701 Everything is improved! That said, AKG Q701 is known to be needing good amping to sound good. On the other hand my ATH-ES7 doesn't seems to get as much benefit from it...there's improvement but not as obvious as Q701 did. So depending on your headphone the improvement will varies.


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## Kaptiva

Quote: 





franmon83 said:


> Hi Kaptiva,
> 
> It seems indeed to be the same issue. I will try this week-end to see if the issue is still present. If it is, I will proceed with some more testing to try and diagnose what is the source of this problem. It could be the USB port, the OS, the cable, the Compass itself (which I hope it's not). We'll see...


 
  Hi franmon83,
   
  I'd tried using Window 7 system with foobar player on the same laptop ie MacAir. It didn't have such problem. So I'm guessing it is firmware/OS related. May I know what Mac OS version you using? Mine is 10.75. According to KingWa, some user have no problem while using the latest MAC OS X Mountain Lion.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Couldn't it be the problem with using SPDIF direct?




> Users can choice the SPDIF signal feed to either ES9018 direct and through DIR module with 3 jumpers setting , which is simply for users choice different sound flavors .
> * If match with low end PC sound card have large jitter cause the sound interrupt by feed to ES9018 direct, users can setting through DIR module for help* . In default SPDIF feed to ES9018 direct




This is what may be causing your issues. I'd try to switch to sending the signal through the DIR, as I'm sure you're probably doing it directly to the ES9018 and it may not be the best for your setup and causing issues.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





kaptiva said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hi Kaptiva,
   
  Since yesterday, I'm testing the USB input of the Compass, but from the back USB port of the Macbook Pro (The one right beside the Thunderbolt port on the MBP early 2011). I read on different websites that for some reason (which were detailed but I did not pay too much attention to it), the back USB port of MBPs can provide a lot more bandwidth than the front one, which makes it more suitable for audio purposes. 98% of the dropping are now gone. I at most get 1 drop every 20-30 minutes now, compared to every minute before. Also, I realized that the sampling rate settings that I chose in my player changed that behaviour a little bit. For instance, I'm using Audirvana Free right now, which exposes different upsampling options. I realized that the less demanding the options, the less drops I had. FYI, I have the latest Mountain Lion (10.8.2). I still find it weird though because I previously used an Apogee ONE USB audio interface and I never noticed any dropping at all, and I had it connected on my USB hub. When I tried to connect the Compass to the USB hub, it would not even get detected by the Mac... It is probably a mix of the OS and the Compass input being picky. 
   
  But, in my case I cannot tell any difference between the optical and USB inputs in terms of quality and I do not experience any drops with the optical input, so I will probably just stick with that one once my testing is done.
   
  I am curious though, do you detect differences in quality between the different digital inputs? I only tested optical and USB, since I do not have a SPDIF source, but they seemed pretty much of similar quality to me.


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## franmon83

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Couldn't it be the problem with using SPDIF direct?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  I'm not sure I understand correctly, I'm not using the SPDIF (which unless I'm wrong is the coax input), so why would it matter? Are you telling me that the USB input uses the same signal path of the SPDIF?


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## Mad Lust Envy

SPDIF is both coaxial and optical. I'd change the internal settings to go through the DIR as mentioned on the A-GD's Compass 2 page and see if the drops cease. Right now doing direct feed may not be compatible with your computer, which may be cuasing all these dropouts.

I'm surprised you didn't try this before. I would assume people had read this prior to buying it. I say that because that could very well be the reason why your optical is acting up.


----------



## franmon83

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SPDIF is both coaxial and optical. I'd change the internal settings to go through the DIR as mentioned on the A-GD's Compass 2 page and see if the drops cease. Right now doing direct feed may not be compatible with your computer, which may be cuasing all these dropouts.
> 
> I'm surprised you didn't try this before. I would assume people had read this prior to buying it. I say that because that could very well be the reason why your optical is acting up.


 
  My optical is not the one acting up, it's the USB... I tried the other jumper setting just in case, but did not see any difference. The USB is still dropping a sample or two once in a while, but really not that often since I switched USB port on my laptop. It's hardly noticeable anymore, but I work in realtime video and audio, so when a sample drop, I hear it... it's my job.
   
  But thanks for the info, I read it, but didn't pay too much attention to it since I had a little trouble understanding what was meant in the description of this setting (English is not my mother language, and obviously is not Kingwa's... so I had a little trouble with the 2 layers of translation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Also, I was thinking that was only affecting the coax input, not the others. I will still try and see if I notice any difference in sound when I switch back to optical.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah SPDIF is both, and the DIR chip affects both.


----------



## Kaptiva

Quote: 





franmon83 said:


> Hi Kaptiva,
> 
> Since yesterday, I'm testing the USB input of the Compass, but from the back USB port of the Macbook Pro (The one right beside the Thunderbolt port on the MBP early 2011). I read on different websites that for some reason (which were detailed but I did not pay too much attention to it), the back USB port of MBPs can provide a lot more bandwidth than the front one, which makes it more suitable for audio purposes. 98% of the dropping are now gone. I at most get 1 drop every 20-30 minutes now, compared to every minute before. Also, I realized that the sampling rate settings that I chose in my player changed that behaviour a little bit. For instance, I'm using Audirvana Free right now, which exposes different upsampling options. I realized that the less demanding the options, the less drops I had. FYI, I have the latest Mountain Lion (10.8.2). I still find it weird though because I previously used an Apogee ONE USB audio interface and I never noticed any dropping at all, and I had it connected on my USB hub. When I tried to connect the Compass to the USB hub, it would not even get detected by the Mac... It is probably a mix of the OS and the Compass input being picky.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info franmon83. Seems like 10.8.2 does have good improvement of 10.75 on this issue. I have about 1 drop every 3mins on both USB port...which is pretty annoying! I tried setting the output to 24bit and 16bit but still having some drop. I guess I'll just use another PC based laptop for it at the moment.. though i'll miss the sound n flexibility of Amarra+iTunes. Yes i think you're right about the OS n Compass being picky gotta do with this.
   
  At the moment my only input option is via USB so I can't tell the difference between inputs. However from my previous experience i do prefer Coax over toslink. It was with a marantz cd player feed to xindak DAC...so might be totally different case here.


----------



## Kingwa

I was got some  feedbacks from user , some users replace the USB cable, some users change to different USB ports, and one user feedback install the KS plugs for Foobar 2000, they fix the drop off .


----------



## Kaptiva

Quote: 





kingwa said:


> I was got some  feedbacks from user , some users replace the USB cable, some users change to different USB ports, and one user feedback install the KS plugs for Foobar 2000, they fix the drop off .


 
  Hi Kingwa,
   
  Foobar2000 only available for Windows OS. I find it work perfectly on Windows. The problem is only on my MAC OS. Changing USB port does not fix the problem for my case. Anyway, I'll try get a better USB cable and see how it goes. I hope Audio-gd will also look into this issue and do some testing on MAC OS to see if this issue can be resolve via firmware updates.


----------



## WizardKnight

Kaptiva and franmon83, have you been able to fix your USB problems? At www.audio-gd.com on the Compass 2 page under Summarize at the very bottom it talks about the ES9018 and sound drop off. Do you think getting the dual wm8741 could fix your sound drop off problem?


----------



## franmon83

Quote: 





wizardknight said:


> Kaptiva and franmon83, have you been able to fix your USB problems? At www.audio-gd.com on the Compass 2 page under Summarize at the very bottom it talks about the ES9018 and sound drop off. Do you think getting the dual wm8741 could fix your sound drop off problem?


 
  Hi WizardKnight,
   
  I really couldn't say, as I don't have the dual WM8741 myself, but I read the same section of the website and it only talks about issues with coax and optical inputs, not USB. In my case, optical input is perfect, and I didn't have a chance to try coax, due to a lack of source connectivity. Since for me, the USB input was more of a nice add-on than a necessity, I only use the optical input for now. But to answer your question, I never could resolve the drop out issues completely on USB, though I was able to reduce it greatly using the back USB port on my Macbook Pro. I did not try to use another USB cable yet, so I guess I could try that (I might do it this week-end). Finally, changing audio playing software did not seem to change anything, though playing with the resampling settings of certain audio players seemed to have some impact on the drop out occurrences, with more demanding resampling settings resulting in more drop outs.


----------



## Kaptiva

Hi WizardKnight ,
  I'm using it with Windows 7 now. So far I have not much problem in windows. I did encounter some drops in windows too after these few days of listening. However with a tweak of USB cable connection and sometimes reseting Compass2 or changing USB port  solves that.
   
  Unfortunately the issue still remains the same on my MAC system (OS 10.7). Tried changing to another USB cable (not "audiophile" grade) but still didn't help. According to Kingwa some user solve it by upgrading to OS 10.8 or prehaps at least lessen it (base on franmon83's drop being much lesser than mine). The only problem for me is my favourite player Amarra doesn't work well with OS 10.8. So there's no point for me to upgrade. Your case may be different.
   
  Not sure about the WM8741. Kingwa should have a better answer on this.


----------



## WizardKnight

Thanks for the replies franmon83 and Kaptiva. Hope you can get the USB problem sorted out. Am curious has the sound quality improved any with burn in on the Compass 2?


----------



## WizardKnight

Just thought would post have looked at the end of the NFB-2 & NFB-3 thread that someone states the USB32 chip handles the USB input. The Compass 2 has that chip too. But also have seen on the Audio-gd site of the Compass 2 in the summarize section about sound cards, optical and coaxial having occasional drop offs with the ES9018. Is only reported by about 1% of the users feedback.


----------



## franmon83

FYI, I just ordered the Dual WM8741 module for the fun of comparing with the ES9018 and learning by myself what the differences sound like


----------



## WizardKnight

Wow franmon83, will be very interested in hearing what you have to say about the differences of the dual wm8741. Also would like to know have you heard any sound improvements with more burn in time with the Compass 2?


----------



## Kaptiva

I'd upgraded the firmware chip to firmware no.3 and guess what?!? problem solved!!! It works well with my MAC without any drop/pop/tick now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  wizardknight, to answer your question regarding burn in, I did hear some improvement after about 80hours. Sounds seems to open up more with better clarity, edginess smoothen out and slightly better bass. Overall sound signature remains the same as good detail, very clean with very low noise floor, tight bass but not as heavy as some others like matrix m-stage. 
   
  frammon83 I'll be interested in your comparison on Dual WM8741 too especially on the bass. Looking forward to hear your findings.


----------



## WizardKnight

Am happy you got the USB working Kaptiva. Thanks for the info about burn in. Am also curious about the soundstage and instrument separation of the Compass 2. Is there a wide and deep soundstage? I know it can also have a lot to do with what headphones you are using. Hope you and franmon83 can share your findings.


----------



## Kaptiva

Quote: 





wizardknight said:


> Am happy you got the USB working Kaptiva. Thanks for the info about burn in. Am also curious about the soundstage and instrument separation of the Compass 2. Is there a wide and deep soundstage? I know it can also have a lot to do with what headphones you are using. Hope you and franmon83 can share your findings.


 
  IMHO, I find the soundstage is very good. Deep and instruments well defined. I think music doesn't sounds too wide or narrow, just neutral. Another findings is that it is very picky on the recordings too. Bad recordings will sound bad especially on the treble while good one you will be rewarded. Hope this helps.


----------



## WizardKnight

Thanks Kaptiva for sharing your findings. I have noticed on the home page of www.audio-gd.com that as of October 25th all products with USB 32 input have firmware #3 installed. That is comforting to know. Hope you and franmon83 will continue sharing your findings about the Compass 2. Have also been reading about the more expensive Reference 10.32 because it has a lot more power and am looking to maybe buying the Hifiman HE-500 which perform good with normal powered amps but scale up to very powerful amps. They are ranked #16 on the "Battle Of The Flagships" thread and get an A+ for the price.


----------



## Nidhogg40

Any comparisons between the Compass 1 and 2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone interested in swapping their Compass 2 for the SA-31? I miss having a volume knob, and wouldnt mind losing the power for the versatility. PM me if interested.

The SA-31 is the same price as the Compass 2, so its an equal trade.


----------



## franmon83

Quote: 





kaptiva said:


> I'd upgraded the firmware chip to firmware no.3 and guess what?!? problem solved!!! It works well with my MAC without any drop/pop/tick now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I upgraded to the firmware no.3 and it also solved my dropping issues completely... BUT I now have trouble having the Compass detected via the USB connection only in Mac OS X. Using the same configuration in Windows 7 plugging in the Compass in the same USB port, it gets detected without any problem. In Mac OS X, though, it seems after a reboot it will never get detected automatically. I realized after a while that starting Audirvana Free would make it work again. Before that, any number of unplugging, replugging, swapping of USB port would make no change...
   
  I tried to analyze the logs in the console, but most of the times, nothings gets added to it when I connect the Compass, even if the device gets detected in Audirvana... weird 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Anyways, I'll try to report soon on the differences I hear with the Dual WM8741, maybe after going back to the ES9018 to confirm my findings. I can already tell you that the description made on the Audio-GD website is pretty much on spot. It is warmer, maybe slightly less detailed than the ES9018, which makes it more forgiving on lesser quality material, but I was starting to love the detail level of the ES9018... So my mind isn't made up about it. It seems they both are "better" for some of my material... If only we could trigger between them with a switch! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll be back!


----------



## Kaptiva

Quote: 





franmon83 said:


> I upgraded to the firmware no.3 and it also solved my dropping issues completely... BUT I now have trouble having the Compass detected via the USB connection only in Mac OS X. Using the same configuration in Windows 7 plugging in the Compass in the same USB port, it gets detected without any problem. In Mac OS X, though, it seems after a reboot it will never get detected automatically. I realized after a while that starting Audirvana Free would make it work again. Before that, any number of unplugging, replugging, swapping of USB port would make no change...
> 
> I tried to analyze the logs in the console, but most of the times, nothings gets added to it when I connect the Compass, even if the device gets detected in Audirvana... weird
> 
> ...


 
   
  On my MAC system I'll sometimes have to switch the audio output to Compass2 manually in Audio Midi setup after reboot/unplugged the usb. But it always get detected as it always appears in Audio MIDI setup windows when connected and power on. Not sure if you are mean the same thing here. 
   
  Thanks for the initial impression. Sounds like Dual WM8741 have the sound i prefer. I'll wait for your full review before I jump in though as I do like the details too...yes a trigger switch sounds cool!!


----------



## steveting99

I've noticed on Audio-GD's website for the Compass 2 that it states both the Sabre ES9018 DAC as well as the Wolfson dual WM8741 DAC. Wasn't sure when purchasing the unit, it comes with both ES9018 and dual WM8741 DAC?
  franmon83 indicates that the dual WM8741 is a separate purchase - question for franmon83 is how did you select between the two different DACs? Did you have to physically swap the ES9018 out and put in the dual WM8741? Or is there a switch within the unit that allows you to select the type of DAC you'd like to use? There doesn't appear to be a physical switch at the front/back of the unit that allows the user to easily select.
   
  I'm interested in either the Compass 2 or NFB 11.32 because of the ES9018 DAC. Can't tell much of a difference between the Compass 2 and NFB 11.32, except for a larger power output on the headphone.


----------



## franmon83

Quote: 





steveting99 said:


> I've noticed on Audio-GD's website for the Compass 2 that it states both the Sabre ES9018 DAC as well as the Wolfson dual WM8741 DAC. Wasn't sure when purchasing the unit, it comes with both ES9018 and dual WM8741 DAC?
> franmon83 indicates that the dual WM8741 is a separate purchase - question for franmon83 is how did you select between the two different DACs? Did you have to physically swap the ES9018 out and put in the dual WM8741? Or is there a switch within the unit that allows you to select the type of DAC you'd like to use? There doesn't appear to be a physical switch at the front/back of the unit that allows the user to easily select.
> 
> I'm interested in either the Compass 2 or NFB 11.32 because of the ES9018 DAC. Can't tell much of a difference between the Compass 2 and NFB 11.32, except for a larger power output on the headphone.


 
  Hi Steve,
   
  The two DACs are separate purchases. The ES9018 comes by default with the unit, and I purchased the WM8741 afterwards and had to physically swap out the ES9018 module and insert the WM8741 instead. The whole process (what to remove, where to insert the new module and what jumper settings to select) is very easy to do and documented on audio-gd's website. (I just visited audio-gd's website and realized they greatly changed the Compass 2 page and removed a lot of customization options. I don't know why they did it and if they still offer the WM8741 option. It was 50$ extra when I ordered it and there were detailed instructions on the website explaining how to perform the modification. You would have to talk to Kingwa to have more details about this if you are interested in the modification).


----------



## SolidSlug

So...I got this today and I can't get it to produce any sound at all, which is a bit of a bother for a sound amplifier.
   
  The source is my Mac Mini, connected via USB. The Compass 2 shows up as Line 1 (USB) in both the Sound preference panel and the Audi MIDI Setup applet.
  When I select it as my output device, internal speakers go quiet, so I guess the Compass 2 gets fed the signal, but when I plug my headphones into the Compass 2, it's total silence.
  (and yes, the blue LED lights up above the power button)
   
  The product came with a bunch of jumpers, a small cable and a chip in styrofoam. I assume that's to try the alternate set-up options.
   
  The Compass 2 should be usable right out of the box right?
   
  Is there something obvious I am doing wrong?


----------



## SolidSlug

Kingwa got me set-up and everything works great now. The Compass 2 sounds really really nice!


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





franmon83 said:


> FYI, I just ordered the Dual WM8741 module for the fun of comparing with the ES9018 and learning by myself what the differences sound like


 
   
  Hi franmon83, would like to know if the dual WM8741 are worth purchasing to get a different sound flavor. I currently have the WM8805 feeding the WM8740 and like the sound coming out of the HA INFO DA1 DAC. I'm thinking the Compass 2 ability to swap out the DAC is unique and may tip me over to buying it compared to the NFB 11.32.
   
  Steve


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone wanna swap my SA-31 for your Compass 2? I'll even thrown in the ODAC!

I must have it! 

BTW:



> 3, Upgrade TCXO for USB chip and ES9018.
> There are two TCXO can for upgrade, one is the 12MHz for the USB interface, another is 80MHz for the ES9018 .
> Cost is USD20 / per without shipping delay .
> 
> ...




Can someone please explain these to me, and if it's even necessary?


Also another question, the default is the ES9018. Considering that using the ES9018 direct is very neutral, would it make more sense to have the WM8805 chip as the alternative method? It's warmer, and having the DIR9001 wouldn't as it's neutral, which is moot since the ES9018 direct method is already neutral, right?

So if I order it, I'd basically just order it fully on default, right?

Also, the ES9018 doesn't use digital filters like the Dual WM8741, right? I have no need for digital filters anyways, so if indeed it lacks that, I'm good with it.


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Also another question, the default is the ES9018. Considering that using the ES9018 direct is very neutral, would it make more sense to have the WM8805 chip as the alternative method? It's warmer, and having the DIR9001 wouldn't as it's neutral, which is moot since the ES9018 direct method is already neutral, right?


 
   
  My understanding is that the stock unit has the WM8805 and you'll have to pay an extra USD$22.5 for the DIR9001 chip. Note that the DIR9001 only supports up to 96kHz, while the WM8805 can go higher up to 192kHz.
   
   


> So if I order it, I'd basically just order it fully on default, right?


   
  Yes.
   

  Also, the ES9018 doesn't use digital filters like the Dual WM8741, right? I have no need for digital filters anyways, so if indeed it lacks that, I'm good with it.
   
  Yes. To enable the digital filters means getting the dual WM8741 card. There are jumper settings to enable the various filters.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually, you can get the DIR9001 for no extra cash. You just ask them to have it installed at default. Its only extra if you order it alongside the default chip. Did the same thing with my NFB5.


----------



## steveting99

Hi Mad Lust Envy,
   
  I didn't know you can get the DIR9001 for no extra if you specify it upfront - thanks for the info. I like the warm sound of the WM8805 and the ability to go to 192kHz, so will be sticking with the standard chip. Looks like I'll be going for the Compass 2 with custom options 2 & 4. Audio-gd doesn't accept credit card payment so I'm trying to figure out how to get the funds across to their bank account in Hong Kong.
   
  Steve


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





steveting99 said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> I didn't know you can get the DIR9001 for no extra if you specify it upfront - thanks for the info. I like the warm sound of the WM8805 and the ability to go to 192kHz, so will be sticking with the standard chip. Looks like I'll be going for the Compass 2 with custom options 2 & 4. Audio-gd doesn't accept credit card payment so I'm trying to figure out how to get the funds across to their bank account in Hong Kong.
> 
> Steve


 
  Why not Paypal? it very easy to create an account, and you have total control of how you transfer your funds in case something goes wrong with any seller.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just placed an order for the Compass 2, with upgraded TXCOs and OCC wiring. DIR9001 (in case ES9018 direct doesn't play nice with my PC). I prefer having as close to neutral in case the direct feed doesn't work.

This will hopefully compete with the SA-31 when paired with the K702 Anniversary, which is absolutely amazing. I know the Compass 2 will make the HE400 sound great (just as the NFB5 and SA-31 did).


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just placed an order for the Compass 2, with upgraded TXCOs and OCC wiring. DIR9001 (in case ES9018 direct doesn't play nice with my PC). I prefer having as close to neutral in case the direct feed doesn't work.
> This will hopefully compete with the SA-31 when paired with the K702 Anniversary, which is absolutely amazing. I know the Compass 2 will make the HE400 sound great (just as the NFB5 and SA-31 did).


 
  So Dir9001 will replace the default.....?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, the DIR9001 will come installed, not the WM8805. You ask this as you send the first email to AGD. Would have bought the Earth op-amp but when I owned the NFB5, I couldn't tell the diff between the stock opamp and MOON, so I figured I'd save the money. That's only for the Line In anyways, which is gonna be for my Mixamp.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, the DIR9001 will come installed, not the WM8805. You ask this as you send the first email to AGD. Would have bought the Earth op-amp but when I owned the NFB5, I couldn't tell the diff between the stock opamp and MOON, so I figured I'd save the money. That's only for the Line In anyways, which is gonna be for my Mixamp.


 
  The compas 2 is so tempting, one thing missing is the XLR output (Solely will be used with my amped Emotiva Speakers).
  Do you think XLR would make that difference ? as to get the NFB-27 (+$1000 with shipping!!!)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I cant say, though if youre gonna spend double just for XLR... lol, I dunno.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I cant say, though if youre gonna spend double just for XLR... lol, I dunno.


 
  I know what you mean, too much for ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I think I might be happy with the Compas 2.
  Any impressions for the compass 2 and the HE-500?


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Why not Paypal? it very easy to create an account, and you have total control of how you transfer your funds in case something goes wrong with any seller.


 
   
  Hi turkorocks,
   
  I have a Hong Kong dollar account (I reside in Hong Kong) and Audio-gd also has a Hong Kong dollar account. The simple thing for me to do would be to waltz on over to their Mong Kok branch (Bank of China) this weekend and deposit the funds. My complication is that I'm on assignment in Beijing, China and it's a long walk to Hong Kong, besides it's really cold over here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've decided to get the Compass 2 and will be looking into seeing how to setup a Paypal account. Don't know how successful it'll be while in China as there might be some complications due to local regulations.
   
  Steve


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





steveting99 said:


> Hi turkorocks,
> 
> I have a Hong Kong dollar account (I reside in Hong Kong) and Audio-gd also has a Hong Kong dollar account. The simple thing for me to do would be to waltz on over to their Mong Kok branch (Bank of China) this weekend and deposit the funds. My complication is that I'm on assignment in Beijing, China and it's a long walk to Hong Kong, besides it's really cold over here...
> 
> ...


 
  I see, please update us how it goes and what are your impressions when you get it.


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> I see, please update us how it goes and what are your impressions when you get it.


 
   
  Recently placed an order with Audio-GD for the Compass 2, will be getting the customized 2xTXCO, the OCC wire treatment and OPA-SUN, don't know if this makes much of an improvement to sound quality.
   
  So the waiting game begins.
   
  Think MLE will get his unit before me - so will be interested to read about his impressions. MLE's setup and customization will be different to mine so there'll be some differences in the sound quality.
   
  Steve


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't get an Op-amp because that will only be for the Line In, which I plan to use only for my Mixamp, which won't benefit much from op-amp rolling. I will to test out the ODAC vs internal Compass 2 DAC, but only temporarily.

At least we'll have the same headphone.

EDIT: It's in Ohio right now. Come on baby!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alright, got the Compass 2 in.

First things first...



I assume this piecve, that wasn't connected at all, belongs here, and is for the Fixed level output (which I want)? Where does the other end go, if it even goes anywhere?

Also...



This came in the package, but I have no idea what it is...

I do see an identical one on the USB chip...

I did order the TXCO upgrade, but I assumed it's already be installed. So what is it?

OH, it's the firmware chip...it seems. Wonder if I need to change it now, or if the one that is on is the newest one...


----------



## Kingwa

The fixed output setting is wrong, not the LED, but the jumper, the black, very small box in a plastic bag shipping with the unit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, a regular jumper. Thanks. Needed to use a tweezer to be able to place it in.

So what is the LED for? I assume it's a replacement for the power LED... 

Also, the firmware chip that was in the package, is it a new one to replace the one currently installed?

BTW, the Compass 2 sounds absolutely amazing. Both SPDIF and USB...


----------



## Clemmaster

What about the volume knob? :-D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wanna make love to the knob...


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wanna make love to the knob...


 
  What!!!????
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and I am/was thinking to buy it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In all seriousness, I was missing the volume knob when I used the SA-31. It's so hard to go to digital buttons.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In all seriousness, I was missing the volume knob when I used the SA-31. It's so hard to go to digital buttons.


 
  I know what you mean , as the NFB-27 was on my list but having no knob , killed it for me.


----------



## Restless-

MLE waiting for your review! Or more impressions!  Seems like a good amp to get. Thinking of getting either this or the modi/magni or the o2/odac for my HE-400 that's shipping soon! Btw how does it work since it's a DAC+Pre-amp+Amp? Because I'm not too familiar if it's all in one package, I only know a bit about separate DACs and Amps like the modi/magni or o2/odac. Is it considered better to have them in one package or do u still use an external DAC with the Compass 2 and only use it as an amp? Pardon for my questions and lack of knowledge on this. Kinda just starting to get into the whole audiophile thing. Hope u can explain further, thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having owned the Modi/Magni as well as the ODAC (which I also used with the Magni and SA-31), I would TOTALLY go straight for the Compass 2. The Magni/Modi was slightly treble oriented (just a hint). The ODAC is wonderful, but comparing it to the inner DAC on the Compass 2, it sounded pretty identical, and you get the 32 bit options on the Compass 2, whereas the ODAC stops at 24/96.

I love the simplicity of having everything in one package. Less clutter, and cables. Yes, you can use your own DAC with the Compass 2 if you want (like testing the ODAC with the Compass 2's amp), and it has a fixed line out (for using as a DAC only for another amp which I find unnecessary unless you wanna try tube amps) or variable line out for something like speakers that don't have their own volume control (I hooked up my cheap desktop speakers to it which don't have their own volume control). In default, it's variable, so if you want fixed, you'll have to add a jumper (as mentioned on A-GD's website.) I say that unless you plan on using another amp, I'd leave it at variable.

The Compass 2 is full of energy and clarity. I honestly think it pairs up better with the HE-400 than the SA-31 did (I could swear the mids are clearer with the Compass 2). Of course, changes are subtle, but I really love the Compass 2 so far. The Magni and O2 are very neutral amps, while the Compass 2 is neutral with a hint of musicality/warmth. I much prefer to have some warmth. Trust me.

The initial setup (on the computer) is a bit of a pain, but not too hard.

This is my 3rd Audio-GD device, and I'm a true fan of Kingwa's stuff. I don't see myself getting another main amp/dac in the future, instead probably just getting a portable one for a laptop or something (like the E17...for the 3rd time, lol).

*edit: Hmm, I may have to change from ES9018 direct to using the DIR module, as I'm getting some crackles here and there. It's a very rare occurence, but it did happen. Had a feeling my PC's sound card was gonna be a piece of crap. :rolleyes: *



> Setting the Compass 2 SPDIF input through DIR module or feed to ES9018 direct :
> The Compass 2 have built in DIR module (Users can choice either DIR9001 and WM8805 install while place the order, in default install WM8805 and SPDIF feed to ES9018 direct ) .
> * Users can choice the SPDIF signal feed to either ES9018 direct and through DIR module with 3 jumpers setting , which is simply for users choice different sound flavors .
> If match with low end PC sound card have large jitter cause the sound interrupt by feed to ES9018 direct, users can setting through DIR module for help . In default SPDIF feed to ES9018 direct*
> ...




I specifically asked for the DIR9001 as it's more neutral than the stock DIR chip. I guess I'll change it when I come home from shipping out the SA-31.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Having owned the Modi/Magni as well as the ODAC (which I also used with the Magni and SA-31), I would TOTALLY go straight for the Compass 2. The Magni/Modi was slightly treble oriented (just a hint). The ODAC is wonderful, but comparing it to the inner DAC on the Compass 2, it sounded pretty identical, and you get the 32 bit options on the Compass 2, whereas the ODAC stops at 24/96.
> 
> I love the simplicity of having everything in one package. Less clutter, and cables. Yes, you can use your own DAC with the Compass 2 if you want (like testing the ODAC with the Compass 2's amp), and it has a fixed line out (for using as a DAC only for another amp which I find unnecessary unless you wanna try tube amps) or variable line out for something like speakers that don't have their own volume control (I hooked up my cheap desktop speakers to it which don't have their own volume control). In default, it's variable, so if you want fixed, you'll have to add a jumper (as mentioned on A-GD's website.) I say that unless you plan on using another amp, I'd leave it at variable.
> 
> ...


 
  Congratulations on your new addition, I hate "Fixing/replacing" and opening my new purchases (or maybe I am lazy). 
  Can Audio-gd (Kingwa), replace these items before shipping? even if it took more time to ship, I prefer it being replaced by some pro, other than myself....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the DIR9001 doesn't come at default. You can ask them to place it in.

There's not much to do yourself here that you really need to do except adding the jumpers for extra warmth for the line in (assuming you want more warmth or are even gonna use the line in), changing the line out to fixed or variable (fixed = not being controlled by the Compass 2 volume knob, variable = volume knob alters volume), and changing the SPDIF from direct to passing through the DIR chip, in my case, the DIR9001.

Everything else is like changing from ES9018 to the wolfon dac chip, or firmware chips. I got an extra USB module chip and I'm uncertain why I have it. I sent them an email asking what it's for, and if I should swap it out.


----------



## Restless-

Awesome impressions, thanks man! It turns out that Compass 2 should be the one I'm looking for after all this while. But first I need to figure out which DIR/DA module that I need? Kinda a bit technical for me, but I guess I'm still learning. So do you reckon that your DIR9001 + ES9018 is optimal?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I went for. The DIR9001 won't be used unless you change from ES9018 Direct to DIR Module passthrough. The ES9018 is neutral, as is the DIR9001. I could have went for the WM default chip, since it's warmer and smoother, but I figured I'd only use the DIR module if ES9018 wouldn't work properly.

So far, ES9018 direct works fine 99.9999% of the time, but very rarely get some distortion. Not sure what causes it. I'm not even sure if it's that or something else. I asked Kingwa, since I get the distortion off both the USB and SPDIF, and ES9018 direct seems to only be an option for SPDIF. 

It might be something else entirely that's causing my issue. In any case, I've only gotten distortion 3 times, out of 24 hours, so far. Definitely not worried about it.

edit: Also added the warmth jumpers for the line in. Can't say I hear much of a difference, but because the ODAC has less voltage than the Compass 2's internal dac, I can't properly match decibel levels, so I'm not sure if it's warmer or not. If the line in was made warmer, it sure as hell is a very minimal effect.


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I got an extra USB module chip and I'm uncertain why I have it. I sent them an email asking what it's for, and if I should swap it out.


 
   
  Recently received the Compass 2 from Audio-GD. Got a similar IC wrapped in foam packaging and asked Kingwa what's it for. The answer is pretty simple, this is for the older firmware #3 to use with the older USB drivers v1.1. The older chip and USB driver is meant to have a slightly smoother sound character compared to the current firmware (#4) and USB driver (v.1.22) which has a neutral sound character. So it depends on what your musical taste is going to be. I'll have to try it out once I through getting things warmed up (cough-cough..burned in).
   
  Steve


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I got his email telling me it was the older firmware chip, though he didn't mention it being smoother/warmer. Hmm, may have to try that. Warmth/smoothness is good.

I'm loving the hell out of the Compass 2 with my HE400 and K702 Anniversary...


----------



## Restless-

I'm just curious, if u like it warm, why u never get either one of the Wolfson modules? Seems like that's what they said about the Wolfson modules, "slightly warmer".
   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I got his email telling me it was the older firmware chip, though he didn't mention it being smoother/warmer. Hmm, may have to try that. Warmth/smoothness is good.
> 
> I'm loving the hell out of the Compass 2 with my HE400 and K702 Anniversary...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like warmth, but prefer to have it neutral at default with an option to go warm via op-amp or jumpers. Probably should have gotten the default spdif chip, and not the DIR9001, though im using ES9018 direct anyways, so the DIR module isn't being used...


----------



## Restless-

Ahh I see. Fair enough. I guess the default option is not so bad either since it gives both a neutral option and warmth.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I like warmth, but prefer to have it neutral at default with an option to go warm via op-amp or jumpers. Probably should have gotten the default spdif chip, and not the DIR9001, though im using ES9018 direct anyways, so the DIR module isn't being used...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Someone know how to be able to switch from ES9018 direct to the DIR Modue passthrough? It's a very tight fit, and I can't squeeze my fingers in there to swap them out. Everything around the jumpers is soldered in...

edit: Hmm... it seems the ES9018 Direct is not playing nice with my PC, as I was getting the crackling through optical (SDIF direct), and the problem went away went I went to USB. However, I went back to SPDIF direct, and it works fine again. Like it resets the connection when I change inputs, and it fixes itself. Odd.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I've noticed that in USB 32 bit mode, I get a click-like distortion on certain sounds, for example, a click sound right before the actual windows clicking when you browse folders in windows. Or like when doing a sound test in playback devices (left side only).

This distortion goes away if I go down to 24-bit.

Any thoughts?

A total non-issue as I don't see any real reason to be in 32-bit mode, but I'd still like the Compass 2 to work at it's best.

I was finally able to move the 3 jumpers from ES9018 Direct to DIR passthrough. We'll see if it fixed my issue with my optical input having distortion and crackling, etc.

*BTW, one of the jumpers (closest to the nears side of the Compass 2's wall) is glued to a 'string' so be careful in not snapping it off. Just gently move it from Direct to DIR pass through.*


----------



## steveting99

Thought I'd post some impressions and some opinions of using the Compass 2. A bit of a preface in that I'm very new to the world of headphones and have only started to get involved with head gear just this year.
   
  I acquired the Compass 2 about two weeks ago and went through some initial testing to make sure it was working. I.e. could play music through the laptop via foobar2000 application. Once that was settled, I then went through a period of playing music and pink noise through the Compass 2 for at least 100 hours (over a week) to burn-in the device and minimize the psychological impact of having a new item.
   
  Prior to testing, pink noise was played and the  the volume raised for both the Compass 2 and HA-INFO DA1 to about 66dBA using the sound meter app of the Samsung Note 2 phone and level matched the volume on the right cup of the headpone. I didn't have a calibrated meter with me.
   
  Primary listening was using the Hifiman HE-400 headphones. Music source is FLAC files in both 24bit/96Hz (downloaded from HD Tracks) and 16bit/44.1kHz format(ripped from original CDs) on playlists by foobar2000 by USB output using Kernel Streaming (KS). I set the bit depth to 24 bits in the output data format - even though the Compass 2 can accept 32 bits. The buffer length was set to 5010ms to minimize sound clicks when changing between music files.
   
  The following is a comparison between the Compass 2 and HA-INFO DA1. I don't have any other DAC + amp unit around that can be compared with.
   
  The first thing I noticed was that the Compass 2 did not have any of sound clicks when going from 16bit/44.1kHz to 24bit/96kHz or in reverse order. The sound clicks were quite evident in the HA-INFO DA1 and not matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get rid of the annoying clicks. A worse problem for the HA-INFO DA1 is the inability to play 88.2kHz. So the Compass 2 wins out on the feature stand point.
   
  The second thing I noticed was that the Compass 2 had more details in the music. It was a joy to focus on certain instruments or background vocals at will on the Compass 2, while I struggled to get the same level of details from the HA-INFO DA1. A side benefit of the increased details is the wider sound stage of the Compass 2 - very evident on well recorded music files.
   
  The third impression is that the base impact is more detailed and forceful on the Compass 2 compared to the HA-INFO DA1. When playing certain bass heavy music, it was much more enjoyable listening on the Compass 2.
   
  It took a lot longer for me to understand the smoothness of the Compass 2 compared to the HA-INFO DA1, but it was there. Once I found this out, it was much more enjoyable listening to my favorite jazz music and soft rock. 
   
  The DA1 is a fun device to listen to with the Wolfson DAC - it was my first serious headphone amp compared to listening to the laptop output and there was a noticeable improvement. At times the DA1 can be harsh when the volume is up, not sure why - possibly the source wasn't recorded right.
   
  I'll conclude is that the Compass 2 is a better device, but its not such an obvious difference that I would have imagined. The cost difference between the two is about 5x, but I can't honestly say that one gets 5x improvement in the sound quality. I quickly found out what the law of diminishing returns mean now.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Once I return back home, will be using the Oppo as the transport to either the optical or coax inputs to compare the USB.
   
  That's all for now.
   
  Steve


----------



## Restless-

Nice to know that your Compass 2 really doing better , and thanks for the impressions.
   
  Anyway, I'm still a bit torn between O2+ODAC or M/M or this. Anyway, @MLE any thorough review on the Compass 2 soon?  How's the burning-in going for u?


----------



## jalva

Thread bump - I am in the market for an amp/dac combo that could drive my active speakers and let me add some good headphones (HE-500, LCD2) later on. Would this be the device to go for in the $500 range? Other options are GF Tubedac 11, Yulong D100 mk2, NFB-10 etc.
   
  Or should I just buy a $1000-1500 device and be done with it?
   
  Sorry for digressing...


----------



## Clemmaster

Well, how much you're willing to spend solely depends on you 
   
  From what I read (and by extrapolation of the experience I have with other A-GD gears) the Compass-2 is a top performer in the $500 range.
  It's modular (line in), has a very good USB input and you can tune the sound signature.
   
  If you want to go balanced, then the 3x R-core integrated (Reference 10, NFB-27, NFB-20) are on a different level (audio & price).


----------



## yfei

Me too, looking forward to see a proper review of compass 2, vs real contenders like yulong d100, audiolab m dac, benchmark dac1, minimax dac. They are all in $300 ~ $600 range (used), well reviewed.
Without any detailed review I dont see why should I buy compass 2




jalva said:


> Thread bump - I am in the market for an amp/dac combo that could drive my active speakers and let me add some good headphones (HE-500, LCD2) later on. Would this be the device to go for in the $500 range? Other options are GF Tubedac 11, Yulong D100 mk2, NFB-10 etc.
> 
> Or should I just buy a $1000-1500 device and be done with it?
> 
> Sorry for digressing...


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





yfei said:


> Me too, looking forward to see a proper review of compass 2, vs real contenders like yulong d100, audiolab m dac, benchmark dac1, minimax dac. They are all in $300 ~ $600 range (used), well reviewed.
> Without any detailed review I dont see why should I buy compass 2


 
  As far as I can tell this amp and the Maverick D1+ are the only ones under 600 with rca and digital inputs. That is the major reason it was on my list, except the Maverick had a lot more input and readable info even if it was from the previous D1. And it was 200-300 less then the Audio-GD. (The money part is a pain always.) 
   
  But yes I agree with both of you. A great review would have probably pushed me to spend the extra money.


----------



## jalva

Quote: 





hailin said:


> As far as I can tell this amp and the Maverick D1+ are the only ones under 600 with rca and digital inputs. That is the major reason it was on my list, except the Maverick had a lot more input and readable info even if it was from the previous D1.


 
   
  Lots of connectivity options here as well:
  http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html
   
  But a comparative review of Compass 2 would be good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jalva said:


> Lots of connectivity options here as well:
> http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html
> 
> But a comparative review of Compass 2 would be good.




Considerably weaker than the Compass 2...


----------



## jalva

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Considerably weaker than the Compass 2...


 
   
  Thanks! I am ready to pull the trigger on Compass 2. Let me restate my assumptions for your very valuable inputs:
  - The DAC is excellent and can drive active speakers and provide volume control for them
  - The DAC/Amp combo is good enough for the likes for HD650, 800, HE-500, LCD2, custom IEMs etc. HE-6 could use Compass's DAC connected to an external amp
   
  Right? My intent is to have a largely future-proof, compact device around which I could build my system. Am I getting too ambitious to be realistic?


----------



## lawrywild

Got a couple of questions for Compass 2 owners:
   
  -When using it on DAC out only through RCA outs to an amp, does the gain switch affect the level out?
   
  -When using HP out, is there still a very very faint signal coming from the RCA outs?
   
  These are both flaws in the design of the NFB-12, so I was wondering if the Compass 2 has them as well.
   
  Cheers


----------



## ninjikiran

How is the dac portion(sabre primarily) compared with the BiFrost?  I won't even ask about my amp as its probably better by default.
   
  Seriously contemplating an all in one unit.  Downsizing and change in needs~


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





lawrywild said:


> Got a couple of questions for Compass 2 owners:
> 
> -When using it on DAC out only through RCA outs to an amp, does the gain switch affect the level out?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi lawrywild,
   
  I'll soon be heading back home with the Compass 2. Will connect the Compass 2 with the main amp + speaker system to test out how good the Sabre DAC is with the transports I've got.
   
  For the first question, I believe there's no affect by the gain switch to the level output when using the RCA outs. Logically the gain switch should only affect the headphone output. I can test for this.
   
  Will be able to answer the second question easy enough.
   
  Steve


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The gain switch affects everything. Had some speakers attached, and it does affect them.


----------



## WatCult

Anyone did a comparison between D100 mkii, Compass 2 and Bitfrost + Asgard combo? I am thinking of an upgrade from Audinst HUD-MX1.


----------



## lawrywild

Quote: 





watcult said:


> Anyone did a comparison between D100 mkii, Compass 2 and Bitfrost + Asgard combo? I am thinking of an upgrade from Audinst HUD-MX1.


 

 I'm in a similar position, and leaning toward the D100 MKII. It has so many positive reviews and is cheaper than the bifrost+asgard, especially if want USB + you live outside the US. I plan to use it just as a DAC rather than use the amp in it though. I think the only problem with it could be reliability and getting returns/support, but considering you live in singapore that's probably not as much of an issue for you.


----------



## WatCult

Quote: 





lawrywild said:


> I'm in a similar position, and leaning toward the D100 MKII. It has so many positive reviews and is cheaper than the bifrost+asgard, especially if want USB + you live outside the US. I plan to use it just as a DAC rather than use the amp in it though. I think the only problem with it could be reliability and getting returns/support, but considering you live in singapore that's probably not as much of an issue for you.


 
   
  Yes, I am also leaning toward D100 MKII because there are more review on it. However, I am interested to try out the Sabre ES9018. Maybe I should just go for the cheaper NFB-11.32 first and see how it goes with my headphones.


----------



## ninjikiran

Just on specs alone it all depends on the headphones your gonna use on it.  The compass 2 has a good voltage output for headphones that want a little more(LCD-2), it also outputs a ton of power for any headphone from orthos to 600ohm Beyers.
   
  In short the compass 2 should theoretically function well with everything you throw at it.
   
  That doesn't say anything for how good it sounds... but I only take subjective reviews with a grain of sugar so I don't become a diabetic. King-wa's analysis of sound profile at least for the base dac is rather accurate.  For instance the wolfson in the NFB 2 really was more forgiving without loosing too much neutrality(hence neutral with a tinge of warmth).


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





steveting99 said:


> Hi lawrywild,
> 
> I'll soon be heading back home with the Compass 2. Will connect the Compass 2 with the main amp + speaker system to test out how good the Sabre DAC is with the transports I've got.


 
   
  I'm back home and digging the Compass 2 + HE400 connected various equipment lying around. Really enjoying the music for hours without having to worry about the neighbors complaining its too loud.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway, connected the Compass 2 with the Oppo BDP-93 transport. Tried both the coax and optical connections - both sound the same. Oppo makes awesome universal players. When comparing to the USB input of the laptop and using the same music tracks, there is a noticeable improvement in sound quality with the BDP-93. It's more louder (by about 1dB) and music contains more details is the best way to describe it. I've also tried connecting the Compass 2  to another transport - the WD Live TV using optical. Listening to the same music tracks, the WD Live TV is much softer (by about -1.5dB) compared to the laptop.
   
  I'm going to try foobar again with replay gain off to see if it makes any difference.
   
  Will also connect the desktop PC via optical and USB to the Compass 2 and compare with the USB input of the laptop. I'm thinking it should be identical results - will soon find out.
   
  Steve


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone using the dual WM8741 set instead of the Sabre ES9018? I wanna know how much warmer the wolfson dac chip is compared to the Sabre. My LCD2 sounds almost perfect off the Compass 2, but I would love just that extra bit of warmth if it was worth it. I don't wanna pay $75 to get it shipped to me, only to find that it's so subtle, it'd be a waste of money.


----------



## franmon83

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone using the dual WM8741 set instead of the Sabre ES9018? I wanna know how much warmer the wolfson dac chip is compared to the Sabre. My LCD2 sounds almost perfect off the Compass 2, but I would love just that extra bit of warmth if it was worth it. I don't wanna pay $75 to get it shipped to me, only to find that it's so subtle, it'd be a waste of money.



Hey Mad Lust,

I bought the Wolfson chip and it is definitely noticeable. It is warmer, but at the cost of loosing some detail at quite high frequencies. Personnaly, for the kind of music that I listen to (electronic music), I prefer it like that, because I found the Sabre a little too bright for my taste, with the highs sometimes shadowing the lows details a bit (not sure I explain it correctly, but it's like some high peaks were "numbing" my hears for a really brief amount of time, preventing me to hear the lows details as much as I would want). I have to say however that when I listen to more instrumental music (Pink Floyd for instance), I notice the lack of detail a bit more (but don't worry, there's still plenty to enjoy!). 
Overall, the ideal for me would have been to switch between the 2 with a button, but since I can't do that, I leave the Wolfson in there all the time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I owned the NFB-5 which had a similar Wolfson chip, and I distinctly remember that it was on the warm side, I was just wondering how warm it'd be compared to the ES9018. It's been awhile since I've had the NFB5.

The high frequency isn't that much of an importance to me anymore. The vegan LCD2 I have has treble almost linear with the bass and lower mids, so I want additional smoothness in that range. It's one thing I preferred off the leather LCD2 I demoed a few weeks ago, though it did sound slightly congested and closed in comparison to the one I own now.

Funny, the LCD2 I have with the sabre sounds super refined. But for some reason I just want more roll off.


----------



## steveting99

MLE,
   
  I'm in a similar boat with you regarding how good the Compass 2 would sound with the dual WM8741. I've played around with various transports and discovered there is noticeable difference in sound quality when using the same music source files and same headphone (HE-400).
   
  May think about getting the dual WM8741 down the road after mods to the headphones have been exhausted out and get bored with the sound of the ES9018. 
   
  Steve


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My three main issues with the Compass2 are that I can't do ES9018 direct with my PC. I get pops and noise/distortion at random times. So I had to use the switch to make the signal go through the DIR chip (DIR9001 in my case). That fixed the problem. No biggie. A-GD mentioned this could be a potential issue with certain PCs.

My other was that my USB settings only go up to 24/192, because setting it to 32bit causes noise/distortion as well. I blame my PC though. 

3rd is that if I'm using the line in with something connected to the USB input, I get low hum mixed in to the Line In's signal. If I unplug the USB, the hum goes away. Again, I'm almost 100% positive that's my PC's fault, but it's irksome that I have to unplug the USB whenever I use the Line In.

As for the dual wolfson chipset, I may order that sooner than later. Looking at the graphs on the site, it looks like certain filters have a big drop off on the audible partt of the frequency...

Two of the 4x oversampling filters (24bit/48khz) have -3db at 17khz. That's an audible part of the spectrum for me (my hearing drops off just a little after 17khz), so that may alleviate all upper end tizz. Hell, at 44.1khz, it drops off at 15khz, which sould be even more audible. I just don't wanna set my DAC to 24/44.1. 

*OS: 4 Filter: 1 and 2*


----------



## lawrywild

Quote: 





steveting99 said:


> I'm back home and digging the Compass 2 + HE400 connected various equipment lying around. Really enjoying the music for hours without having to worry about the neighbors complaining its too loud.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the reply.
   
  I ended up going with a Yulong D100-II instead. I think the Compass is a great option for DAC+Amp but I don't like the implementation of the DAC only, which is the same as the NFB-12 my D100 is replacing.


----------



## ninjikiran

Hmm nots not bad thus far, by USB(finally got it installed) theres no hum or anything.  Everything is really clean.  (Have a pretty top end motherboard I guess)
   
  Only thing I miss is Lucid mode =( didn't know i would miss it so much.  But tbh tubes were a bit of a pain sometimes feels good to be on solid state again and in my comfort zone. 
   
  It is a little sibilant compared to my BiFrost/Taboo combo, less punchy to.  But those two together are about 3x the price of the A-GD stuff.


----------



## rexirius

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Just on specs alone it all depends on the headphones your gonna use on it.  The compass 2 has a good voltage output for headphones that want a little more(LCD-2), it also outputs a ton of power for any headphone from orthos to 600ohm Beyers.
> 
> In short the compass 2 should theoretically function well with everything you throw at it.


 
   
  My concern is the opposite, that it might be too powerful for my headphones and destroy them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  My Audio Technica ATH-AD2000X is only 40 ohms, while my HD598 is 50 ohms.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've used the KSC35/75 on the Lyr and SA-31 (10 watts at 40ohm, 700mw at 600ohm). They did fine.

Been using other easy to drive headphones with my Compass 2 without any issues.


----------



## rexirius

Thanks, that's nice to know!  Initially I was leaning toward the NFB11.32 over the 15.32, but more and more it's looking like the Compass2 is what I should get. Incidentally the 15.32 is marked "out of stock" in the Audio-dg website.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There's also the NFB 5.32 and 11.32 as cheaper alternatives to the Compass 2. The NFB-5.32 is better than the 15.32 with digital front plate and better power supply/internals (hence why it's more expensive), and the NFB 11.32 uses the more neutral Sabre ES9018 dac chip which is highly regarded and used in super high end dacs. The 15.32 is the easiest to use as it has no digital flavors to mess with. The NFB 5.32 has the same functionality as the 15.32, but easier due to the digital buttons, instead of manual jumpers.

The Compass 2 has better specs than all three of those, more power, and a lot of customization, allowing you to use either the Wolfson or Sabre dac chip, analog line inputs to allow for external sources/dacs. I actually prefer simplicity, and if the 11.32 had analog inputs for cheaper than the Compass 2, I would have went for that, personally.

I owned the NFB-5 before, and I absolutely loved it. Just no analog inputs, which I need for my Mixamp.


----------



## ninjikiran

I might be getting the wolfson dac, from my time with the NFB-2 I remember it sounding smooth and non-sibilant but I wanna give my ears, the unit, and USB clock some time to warm up before I go too crazy.  Still sounds pretty good thus far.
   
  Not that I am home putting it through the paces of the LCD-2 R1, the sibilance is pretty much gone.  Has alot of authority over them as well~  Might not pair as well with my 770pro/32 LE, have not tried them with the slighter darker pro/80


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





lawrywild said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I ended up going with a Yulong D100-II instead. I think the Compass is a great option for DAC+Amp but I don't like the implementation of the DAC only, which is the same as the NFB-12 my D100 is replacing.


 
   
  Not sure if you know that the Sabre DAC can be replaced with a dual Wolfson chip to give a more musical sound (quoting from Audio-GD himself). There is also an analogue input with various opamps configurations to suite your taste - I got the SUN omamp  and will soon try it out. This way one can have a favorite / separate DAC feeding the Compass 2 and use it purely as an amp to the headphone. I like this flexibility.
   
  Steve


----------



## ninjikiran

What was originally less punchy with the right headphones on the compass is significantly more so.  Seriously, solid state is awesome and the convenience of this unit makes it doubly so since it sounds really good.  My original analysis of it was way off base.
   
  I cant wait to try them with my new closed headphones, which I finally have a closed pair on more equal ground with the LCD-2


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What headphone would that be?


----------



## ninjikiran

Ultrasone Signature DJ
   
  It pairs fairly well with it but I find any headphone with even borderline sibilance to be a big nono.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

This product looks good from the info I have gathered so far but a few of questions if anyone can help answer.
   
  From the site:
   
  [size=small]"1, The Compass 2  had infinite upgrade possible in future , the USB , DIR, DA, ACSS modules can exchange without solder . ( All analog signal transfer in current model for avoid the sound degrade by the modules sockets . Digital signal have the impedance match for avoid sound degrade by the modules sockets . )[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]    [/size]*[size=small]USB module:[/size]*[size=small]  USB-32 sound characteristic is very neutral and a ton of details without harsh .  It can cooperation with any DA modules. Up to 32bit / 384K support.[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]    [/size][size=small]*DA modules : *[/size][size=small] ES9018 sound characteristic is very neutral and a ton of details without harsh .  [/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]                          Dual WM8741 sound characteristic is neutral but slight on the warm side and smooth . Users can setting the digital filter characteristic with two jumpers.[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]    [/size][size=small]*DIR modules :*[/size][size=small] Users  can choice the SPDIF signal feed to either ES9018 direct and through DIR module with 3 jumpers setting , which is simply for users choice different sound flavors . Other DA modules must setting with DIR active model .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]                          WM8805 sound slight warmer , support up to 192KHz . [/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]                          DIR9001 sound quite neutral, support up to 96KHz .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]    [/size][size=small]*OPAs :*[/size][size=small] Users can exchange the OPA chips and discrete OPA modules for Line in without solder . [/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]                          OPA-SUN sound dynamic ,detail and speed .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]                          OPA-EARTH sound is neutral but slight warmer . [/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]                          OPA-MOON sound is a bit warm and smooth .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]2, The Compass 2 have Line in,  users can use it as a dedicate head amp / preamp .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]3, The Compass 2 have Line out , users can use it as variable level as DAC with preamp combo or fixed output level as dedicated DAC .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]4, Users can setting the neutral or warmer sound for Line in with two jumpers pull / push .[/size][size=small][/size]
 [size=small]5, Strong power output :  2000mW / 50 ohm (300mW class A)    ,  1100mW / 100 ohm (600mW class A)    ,  400mW / 300 ohm (Full class A)"[/size]
   
  Questions:
  [size=small]1) I plan to use this through USB, should I worry about the DIR module at all?[/size]
  [size=small]2) [/size][size=small]I like the line-in/line-out options but [/size][size=small]what is up with the OPA(opamps?) stuff?  Do I need to install one of those if I want to use the compass 2's line-in?[/size]
  [size=small]3)Lastly, I am a little confused about the power output, I have the HE-500 atm, will it be fed the 2+ watts or the lower rated power output?[/size]
   
  [size=small]ATM, I am ready to purchase it in a default version but those questions are bugging me[/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

1. Some computers don't work well with the SPDIF direct signal. I have a pretty decent computer, and I get sporadic noise/distortion if I use SPDIF direct, as stated. Once I changed it to make the signal go through the DIR module, I no longer got any distortion. So, yes, if you want a neutral sound, go for the DIR9001, if not, the other might be a hint warmer. I don't know as the two A-GD devices I've owned with dacs, I've used the DIR9001 on both.

2. No. The op-amps slightly alter SQ for more neutrality, more warmth, or more dynamics. I personally stick to the stock op-amp which is just fine. I tried the Moon op-amp on my NFB-5, and I honestly couldn't tell the difference between it and the stock op-amp. Don't expect anything more than a very subtle change, if that. I've even added the jumpers for more warmth on the line in signal, and I didn't hear an appreciable difference with that as well.

3. I'm still not sure on this myself. All I know is that the Compass 2 has a lot of power. I've even used it with the HE-4 which needs a ton (much more than the HE-500), and it sounded great off the Compass 2.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Great, thanks a bunch


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> [size=small]1) I plan to use this through USB, should I worry about the DIR module at all?[/size]
> [size=small]2) [/size][size=small]I like the line-in/line-out options but [/size][size=small]what is up with the OPA(opamps?) stuff?  Do I need to install one of those if I want to use the compass 2's line-in?[/size]
> [size=small]3)Lastly, I am a little confused about the power output, I have the HE-500 atm, will it be fed the 2+ watts or the lower rated power output?[/size]


 
   
  Hi KamijolsMyHero,
   
  Believe MLE has answered your questions.
   
  For question (3), my understanding is that the technical specs list the maximum available power before distortion occurs at a given impedance. So for instance if your HE-500 has a nominal impedance of 50 ohms, the Compass 2 maximum output power is 2W. Note that some headphones have an impedance graph that shows changes with frequency. For the HE-400, Inner Fidelity has produced a graph here (I trust Tyll doesn't mind me posting something that is already public information)
   
   
     
   
   
  Steve


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Its actually 38 ohms, so I expect 2+ watts, I figured the bracketed output power is the rated power for low gain, since its too low for a 12 DB gain


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kamijoismyhero said:


> Its actually 38 ohms, so I expect 2+ watts, I figured the bracketed output power is the rated power for low gain, since its too low for a 12 DB gain




That was my assumption too. I still don't have a definite answer as to when EXACTLY the Compass 2 drives headphones in Class A...


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

I shot em an email about this, I can update if they reply
   
  here is the reply:
   
  
 The Compass 2 can't built the full class A on 25 to 50 ohm, this is need quite high based current, we are based on technology, we can't lie on the technology.
 Some brands products may declare their products work on full class A without very hot but we can't.
 The class A power is enough for most headphone, like 300MW on 50 ohm , usually 80MW have boost the 50 ohm headphone very loud even the ears can't accept.
 Kingwa
   
   
  I guess they are using high voltage instead of current, so its not a full class A because of that...pretty fast reply, cool stuff


----------



## RESEARCHBEFBUY

Hey, I have been looking for a DAC/AMP for ages that is affordable, great sounding, bit perfect, 24/192 capable with optical inputs. audio gds compass 2, 11.32 and 1.32 were almost my final options. Now I hear these things cause popping (or ticking) and distortion? Please give me the best alternative to audio-gd then. Been looking far too long always something wrong.


----------



## wje

I currently have an Audio-GD "Fun" (2nd time being purchased) awaiting me at home on my doorstep.  I'm looking for the *"Sun" Op-AMP* if someone has one within the U.S. that they'd be willing to part with?  My "Fun" is shipping with the "Earth" module, so I wanted to pick up from where I last left off with the Fun that I owned about 10 months ago.
   
  I do realize this is the Compass 2 forum, so please excuse my interruption here.  I wasn't sure how to get someone's attention regarding the module as normally the "WTB" posts in the F/S section often get overlooked.
   
  Meanwhile, I will keep my eyes peeled on the Compass 2 thread.  I'm sure at some point, I will be moving towards a Compass 2 at some point when I get bored of what I have.
   
  Also, If I could ask, which Op-Amp does the Compass 2 currently ship with?  Does Audio-GD provide the Earth, Moon or Sun for the buyer?  Or, is there just a chip that is placed in the socket for the Op-Amp and the buyer of the Compass 2 have to chase down the modules if they want to try them out, or upgrade?
   
  Thank you,


----------



## steveting99

Quote: 





wje said:


> I currently have an Audio-GD "Fun" (2nd time being purchased) awaiting me at home on my doorstep.  I'm looking for the *"Sun" Op-AMP* if someone has one within the U.S. that they'd be willing to part with?  My "Fun" is shipping with the "Earth" module, so I wanted to pick up from where I last left off with the Fun that I owned about 10 months ago.
> 
> I do realize this is the Compass 2 forum, so please excuse my interruption here.  I wasn't sure how to get someone's attention regarding the module as normally the "WTB" posts in the F/S section often get overlooked.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi wje,
   
  I do have the SUN op-amp, but unfortunately living in Hong Kong so getting it across to you might be a problem
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. When I purchased the the Compass 2, it came with a standard op-amp and I bought the SUN as an extra.
   
  Steve


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





researchbefbuy said:


> Hey, I have been looking for a DAC/AMP for ages that is affordable, great sounding, bit perfect, 24/192 capable with optical inputs. audio gds compass 2, 11.32 and 1.32 were almost my final options. Now I hear these things cause popping (or ticking) and distortion? Please give me the best alternative to audio-gd then. Been looking far too long always something wrong.


 

 No popping, no distortion, perhaps the unit clicks when locking in a new sample rate but I never noticed it with headphones on nor do I have a huge selection of music with varying sample rates.
   
  The unit handles both of my headphones like a champ, but it pairs better with a warmer headphone like the LCD-2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The pops/distortion are only a thing with Spdif direct on certain sources, like bad soundcards on pcs. All you have to do is change from direct to dir passthrough. It was mentioned on the product listing on A-GDs website. Nothing new. As for sample rate hiccups, yes, I only get that if I set my usb to 32 bit mode on my desktop. I went to 24 bit, and absolutely no problems. 

I wouldn't give up my Compass 2 for any other amp/dac in their price range. Hell, I downgraded from the SA-31, and I'm perfectly content with the Compass 2.

Wje, it comes with a stock op-amp which does just fine.


----------



## ninjikiran

mmm, I might swap to the WM chip I remember it having a more pleasant sound.


----------



## RESEARCHBEFBUY

Thanx for the help, 
   
  I am still deciding for the best usb DAC as this is my primary goal. Any headphone amp or other features are bonus.
  I can't decide between the compass 2, NFB 1.32, Ressonessence labs concero, Micromega mydac, Musical fidelity M1, shiit bifrost or for a higher price and more features wadia 121, Pioneer N-50, Cambridge audio stream magic 6, shiit gugnir. And if it is said that it's a major quality leap then even benchmark DAC1 usb or Chord Electronics QuteHD.
  I am merely looking to have the best audio from my computer. Can someone with experience point out the best sound quality DAC of all these options? I know sound quality is subjective but we can all agree that there's a certain quality that pertains to all of us most thus delivering the title of "best" dac. Please make a top 5 with only sound quality as a usb dac in mind (not price or features).
   
  Cheers, Laurens


----------



## RESEARCHBEFBUY

Throw in the parasound zdac for comparison.


----------



## Clemmaster

Do the USB-SPDIF + DAC count too?
   
  If yes, the Concero + Metrum Quad is, to my ears, better than the Concero in standalone.
   
  My ranking (quick):
*#1 - Audio-GD NFB-27:* Has it all (details/definition, separation, authority/impact, big soundstage, organic tone) and offers something really special: excellent extension in the treble without a hint of harshness! It features an excellent amp and preamp too.
*#2 - Concero + Metrum Quad:* Less technical but has a different presentation that is equally enjoyable (crystal clear, natural tone of R2R DACs). The technicalities are that of the Concero, actually. It even gets its sound signature (that's how transparent the Metrum DACs are) but removes the (slight) hardness and adds the R2R magic.
*#3 - Concero standalone: *For the size, a killer DAC. It's less refined than the NFB-27, brighter and harder sounding (w/ the HE-5LE + SA-31) but it will fit in your back pocket (don't sit on it, you'd break your pocket!) when the NFB-27 needs a truck.
*#4 - Stello U3 + Metrum Quad*: Warmer and more romantic, but less technical than with the Concero.
*#5 - Audio-GD Ref-5.32:* Mine was faulty so I couldn't really enjoy it but I could discern a similar level of technicalities than the U3 + Quad. Sound was too dark for me though (w/ the 500s back then)
  #6 - Fostex HP-A3
  #7 - Audio-GD NFB-3.1
  #8 - Emotiva XDA-1
  ...


----------



## yfei

How about Compass 2?
  Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Do the USB-SPDIF + DAC count too?
> 
> If yes, the Concero + Metrum Quad is, to my ears, better than the Concero in standalone.
> 
> ...


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





yfei said:


> How about Compass 2?


 
   
  Never heard it.
   
  From experience and by interpolation, it would sit at either #6 or even steal the #5 to the Ref 5.32 (but I doubt it).


----------



## ninjikiran

My ranking in SQ
   
  1. Bifrost, perfect dac imo.  It doesnt add, doesn't subtract.  Its not sibilant, its not anything bad.
  2. NFB-2 - Basically the bifrost, but warmer cutting off some higher registers. 
  3. Compass 2  -  In the sabre config it is slightly sibilant.  Pairs well with my LCD-2 but has trouble with my less warm headphones.
   
  But the Compass 2 still sounds good, and has utility,  Its a damn powerful headphone amp, has a robust USB input and options to change things around. Its hard to find such a robust Dac/Amp that functions so well, only other real options is to buy multiple boxes.
  
  My days of Summit-Fi have ended though, I have grown a little and my tastes have change.  Spending top dime for very little is not a prospect for me anymore.


----------



## DanPluck

[size=10pt]Just received my Compass 2, Sabre with TXCO upgrade.  Fast delivery, great packaging and wonderful bit of kit.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I initially had some troubles with 32bit mode not being available and "device not recognised" messages on booting up.  After faffing about for an hour or so I switched the Compass over to a USB2 connection and everything has been perfect since.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Wonderful sounding device especially with the HE-400.[/size]


----------



## RESEARCHBEFBUY

I bought a very obscure, unknown around head-fi Lindemann dac. It cost me 600 euros and does it's job great. I was told at the local hifi store that this was the best possible buy. The problem i only that I have nothing to compare it to. Maybe it isn't at all as good as I want it to be. I placed my trust in the expertise of a bloke that works at the store and was reassured by another one that it's a great bit of technology. It dates from the end of 2010 and is capable of 192 kHZ data handling. Thanx for the help anyways. If anyone has any experience in comparing this dac to others I am very interested. The dac was apparently derived from the 12000 euro lindemann CD player that originated around the 2000s. I really am unaware of where I stand quality wise, would be great to have an experienced users feedback.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





researchbefbuy said:


> I bought a very obscure, unknown around head-fi Lindemann dac. It cost me 600 euros and does it's job great. I was told at the local hifi store that this was the best possible buy. The problem i only that I have nothing to compare it to. *Maybe it isn't at all as good as I want it to be*. I placed my trust in the expertise of a bloke that works at the store and was reassured by another one that it's a great bit of technology. It dates from the end of 2010 and is capable of 192 kHZ data handling. Thanx for the help anyways. If anyone has any experience in comparing this dac to others I am very interested. The dac was apparently derived from the 12000 euro lindemann CD player that originated around the 2000s. I really am unaware of where I stand quality wise, would be great to have an experienced users feedback.


 
   
  How do you like it?
   
  If you like it why would you not like it anymore if the Compass-2 happen to be a "better" DAC?


----------



## Poetik

Since this thread is going completely off topic..
   
  Does anymore have any impressions of the compass 2?


----------



## DanPluck

Posting from my phone, so in short:

It's great!


----------



## akll

I bought compass2 for around two months. It impressed me a lot even it was not burnt-in.
  As others said it's gonna better and better for hundred hrs of warmup.
  I do not like some minor blemishes like the chassis, unfitted hole for the USB receptacle, and the size of the case.
  Be a caviler, i decided to modify the whole DAC. Base on both interior and exterior dressings, i'd changed the metal case, the USB receptacle, most of the electrolyse capcitors and seperate OCC toroidal transformers.
  I am not good at describing the changes of sound in English, anyway i had the cap-mod for fews days b4 the transformers. After few days of cap-modded, I just felt the sound was much more clear, just like had few quantity of mid-low range, but actually it still had better quality of bass. Better of dynamic too. I would count 15% level-up on the changes.
  About the transformers, that was quite amazing. Firstly i thought the DAC would be much better with seperate transformers, one for analogue and other for digital processing. While i was ready to buy two toroidals from online stores, I saw a guy who sold his modded transformers with OCC wires, prices are high (around 6X higher than others traditions) but i decided to buy two 30 Watts to get a test. Ofcoz the results were good enough...may be psychological... i was quite sure the sound stage was wider and accurate than ever, the bass dived deeper, definiton of small details impressed me the most, like the era of the black plastics > CDs. i would count another 20% level-up of this change.
  I love my modded Compass2 now... how much did i pay? haha, i would say it's now a Compass4.


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





akll said:


> I bought compass2 for around two months. It impressed me a lot even it was not burnt-in.
> As others said it's gonna better and better for hundred hrs of warmup.
> I do not like some minor blemishes like the chassis, unfitted hole for the USB receptacle, and the size of the case.
> Be a caviler, i decided to modify the whole DAC. Base on both interior and exterior dressings, i'd changed the metal case, the USB receptacle, most of the electrolyse capcitors and seperate OCC toroidal transformers.
> ...


 
  Any pictures?


----------



## akll

Quote: 





turokrocks said:


> Any pictures?


 
  Just got some with my mobilephone...


----------



## Clemmaster

Very nice work!
  Did you replace the Nover caps with new ones? I thought these were pretty good already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Next step: the balanced 3x r-core version (NFB-27)


----------



## turokrocks

Quote: 





akll said:


> Just got some with my mobilephone...


 
  Thank you.
  Please update us esp. about the enclosure.
  Nice pictures...I see you got the Sony Z..hmmm...Maybe I will get it instead of the S4/HTC one.
  Any advise? (yes I know I do not want to derail the thread!..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## akll

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Very nice work!
> Did you replace the Nover caps with new ones? I thought these were pretty good already
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, i really did replaced all of the caps with TK and Nichicon Muse, yeah, i agreed with Nover caps was quite good enough for a mass production DAC.
  But since i've been told that rumors of the background of Nover, then i decided to get back to the Japanese products. Moreover i dont really like the black color of caps sitting on a black color of PCB... 
  i think my compass 4 is my last step, i cant find any cons of it if i dont have any balanced equiptments (power amps nor headphones)
  About R core transformers...hmm....they are honestly the best choice for audio, but it's a pity that nowsadays you cant find good quality of cores from Japan, even from Taiwan. So i got the toroidals from Noratel for modding. At least the cores are still within quality standard.
   
   
  Turokrocks: I will update my last finished enclosure. HEeee... i wont derail teh topic...I just have an advice for Sony XZ , As far as i know, no other phones (S4 and HTC new one are too new ) that have the most compatiable to DAC with just a OTG cable like Sony . I had tested  with my XZ that CM, TI, TE and VIA (compass2) USB chips are all working without any problems. Maybe i will borrow S4 and HTC later for further confirmation.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

edit: nvrmind I think I installed it properly, now I dont get sound -.-
   
  well after a few more buttons pushed I got it working lol
   
  it seems Gain and Line In must be pushed for Max gain and for use as amp/dac
   
  2 hour operation smh


----------



## Zoom25

Just a quick question, how would the original Compass work with planars (LCD-2, HE-500) and dynamics (D2000, KNS 8400, IEMs?), especially with different gain settings. Also any comments on how the DAC sections stacks up?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jesus Christ, can someone who speaks ENGLISH do a step by step guide on how to install the Compass 2's USB drivers to actually make the ***damn thing work? The instructions on the A-GD site is... well, it's impossible to read.

I'm fortunate that my laptop has an optical out, because I would have flung the Compass 2 against the wall by now.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

mad lust envy said:


> Jesus Christ, can someone who speaks ENGLISH do a step by step guide on how to install the Compass 2's USB drivers to actually make the ***damn thing work? The instructions on the A-GD site is... well, it's impossible to read.
> 
> I'm fortunate that my laptop has an optical out, because I would have flung the Compass 2 against the wall by now.




What guide are you following and how far? I might be able to help, as installed mine just over a week ago


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The one posted on the USB32 page on Audio-GD's website. Followed it, and all it does is make my computer hang when I try to test the dac in the sound devices. I'm unsure which version I'm supposed to download, but I assume it's the first version, since I bought the Compass 2 a while ago.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The one posted on the USB32 page on Audio-GD's website. Followed it, and all it does is make my computer hang when I try to test the dac in the sound devices. I'm unsure which version I'm supposed to download, but I assume it's the first version, since I bought the Compass 2 a while ago.


 
  so you downloaded v1.22, are you sure the buttons are set for DAC only? I know the instructions don't say anything about which buttons to press or to turn on


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Everything on the physical end is set up properly. My computer locks up when trying to get audio to play through the usb. I have to switch to another device so it works again. 

End result: no audio through usb 

I've had the Compass 2 for awhile. Didnt have any issues installing the usb the first time, but every time after that (different computers), I have been unsuccessful, and have had to use the optical connection.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

mad lust envy said:


> Everything on the physical end is set up properly. My computer locks up when trying to get audio to play through the usb. I have to switch to another device so it works again.
> 
> End result: no audio through usb
> 
> I've had the Compass 2 for awhile. Didnt have any issues installing the usb the first time, but every time after that (different computers), I have been unsuccessful, and have had to use the optical connection.




How long is a while ago, does it have a USB32? Maybe the driver is not being compatible with non USB32

Well there is also a few mysteries with mine lol I guess it just comes with the language barrier, else a Chinese friend that can read Chinese is the best way to go


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe all Compass 2s come with USB32.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I believe all Compass 2s come with USB32.


 
   
  You need to check the firmware version, or flash a known firmware with the upgrade toolkit that is provided on the website.
   
  From there, once you're sure which version you have, you should install:
  -1.1 for firmware #3
  - 1.22 for firmware #4 & 5
  - 2.0 for firmwares 7 & 8
   
  The procedure is quite simple:
  - Remove the old driver that might be present on your computer (go Panel Control -> Devices Manager -> Audio, video controllers -> Uninstall your "audio-gd" (firmware>3) or "SVB202" (firmware = 3) device and check "remove driver".
  - Then you should delete from the VIA folder located in Program Files (x86) the following sub-folders: _VIAudUsb _& _Setup_.
  - If you've got firmware #3, you should delete the _HIEND_ folder in Program Files (x86).
  - If you've got firmware >3, you should delete the folder in which you extracted the USB-32 drivers (from the rar package. If you followed Audio-GD installation procedure, it should be located in c: with a folder name that match the drivers (e.g _AudiogdUSB32v2.0forwin_)
   
  - Extract the new drivers in c:
  - Connect your DAC and power it on.
  - Launch the installer and enjoy.
   
  Note: the installation won't succeed if the DAC is off


----------



## lesda

I just got the Compass 2 today and it wont work for me.. I have the compass 2 plug in to my imac via USB. I did change the sound output to Audio Gd and checked the audio midi setup. I tried it with Itunes + Audirvana Plus but no sound is coming out of the headphones. Am I doing something wrong? Can someone help me out. Thanks.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Did you follow driver install instructions? 



lesda said:


> I just got the Compass 2 today and it wont work for me.. I have the compass 2 plug in to my imac via USB. I did change the sound output to Audio Gd and checked the audio midi setup. I tried it with Itunes + Audirvana Plus but no sound is coming out of the headphones. Am I doing something wrong? Can someone help me out. Thanks.


----------



## lesda

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> Did you follow driver install instructions?


 
   


 Hi KamijolsMyHero,
   
  I was under the impression that I didn't need to install any drivers for Mac? I'm going to take a look at the links at the audio-gd site and try it out. Thank you.


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





lesda said:


> Hi KamijolsMyHero,
> 
> I was under the impression that I didn't need to install any drivers for Mac? I'm going to take a look at the links at the audio-gd site and try it out. Thank you.


 
  oh right drivers are only for windows but this "[size=x-small]*Mac OSX , Linux (MMX)  and SPDIF inputs without driver install necessary . *[/size]" is a little ambigious so I am not 100% sure about that
   
  If you haven't already, push in the right most button in the front plate if you are going to use it as an amp and dac


----------



## lesda

Quote: 





kamijoismyhero said:


> oh right drivers are only for windows but this "[size=x-small]*Mac OSX , Linux (MMX)  and SPDIF inputs without driver install necessary . *[/size]" is a little ambigious so I am not 100% sure about that
> 
> If you haven't already, push in the right most button in the front plate if you are going to use it as an amp and dac


 

 It finally worked! I don't know what happened when I first tried it but after retoggle-ing between internal speakers and audio-gd to setting the preferences at audirvana, when i pressed line in button sound suddenly came out! (odd when I did try the line in button previously it wasn't working) Thank you! really appreciate the help!


----------



## DanPluck

I have had the Compass 2 for a month or so now and wondering what the general consensus is on the best quality input.  Given the same output/settings do you prefer USB or SPDIF?


----------



## Dafo

My mac uses osx 10.5.8. Will there be any issues with the usb connection or is it plug and play with the compass2 ?


----------



## bruiselee

hey guys, just to check,
  Is compass 2 a integrated amplifier/dac? so meaning it is capable of powering up passive speakers and feeding analog signals too?


----------



## DanPluck

Quote: 





bruiselee said:


> hey guys, just to check,
> Is compass 2 a integrated amplifier/dac? so meaning it is capable of powering up passive speakers and feeding analog signals too?


 
  Nope im afraid not.
   
  It is a combined DAC/Headphone amplifier and i guess a single source pre-amplifier.


----------



## pongagt

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> You need to check the firmware version, or flash a known firmware with the upgrade toolkit that is provided on the website.
> 
> From there, once you're sure which version you have, you should install:
> -1.1 for firmware #3
> ...


 

 I got my Compass 2 working after quite a few hours trying thanks to your much clearer instruction then Audio-gd. How tough would it have been for Audio-gd to spend a little more time having someone write more detailed instructions in better english. Just think of how many customers they have that would be just as thrilled by how easy it should be to install the drivers as they are with the sound of their equipment.  Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





pongagt said:


> I got my Compass 2 working after quite a few hours trying thanks to your much clearer instruction then Audio-gd. How tough would it have been for Audio-gd to spend a little more time having someone write more detailed instructions in better english. Just think of how many customers they have that would be just as thrilled by how easy it should be to install the drivers as they are with the sound of their equipment.  Thanks for the clarification.


 
   
  My pleasure.
   
  I already suggested Kingwa to put a version in the name of the package that contains the firmware upgrade tool. It's always "USB32Firmware.rar". It contains all the firmwares that were released to *date*.
  He should also make a driers version history and allow people to download older versions easily.
   
  I much prefere firmware #3 over the newer ones with my NFB-27.


----------



## pongagt

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> I already suggested Kingwa to put a version in the name of the package that contains the firmware upgrade tool. It's always "USB32Firmware.rar". It contains all the firmwares that were released to *date*.
> He should also make a driers version history and allow people to download older versions easily.
> ...


 

 I'm very happy just to have my Compass 2 working with my computer for now. It came with the newest firmware. I have a extra chip so i guess i could have a different version of the firmware on each chip. Mine is not even broken in and i still have the Earth board to install and i want to do some recapping with Silmics wherever i can fit them. Are you switching chips to be able to ab the firmware without reflashing?


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





pongagt said:


> I'm very happy just to have my Compass 2 working with my computer for now. It came with the newest firmware. I have a extra chip so i guess i could have a different version of the firmware on each chip. Mine is not even broken in and i still have the Earth board to install and i want to do some recapping with Silmics wherever i can fit them. Are you switching chips to be able to ab the firmware without reflashing?


 
   
  No I use the flashing tool, it's much faster and safe if you're careful enough.
  In all cases, you have to uninstall and reinstall drivers, which may take some times since the computer needs to reboot 2-3 times in the process.
   
  I stick with firmware #3 anyway and it also works with the Squeezebox Touch - albeit in Adaptive mode - which I rarely use these days anyway.


----------



## pongagt

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> No I use the flashing tool, it's much faster and safe if you're careful enough.
> In all cases, you have to uninstall and reinstall drivers, which may take some times since the computer needs to reboot 2-3 times in the process.
> 
> I stick with firmware #3 anyway and it also works with the Squeezebox Touch - albeit in Adaptive mode - which I rarely use these days anyway.


 

 I use my Squeezebox Touch streaming from a NAS exclusively at home and my laptop on the road. I am probably better off leaving the firmware optimized for my Touch running the Enhanced Digital Output app.
   
  I'm finding there isn't any room for most premium caps in the Compass 2. No way can i fit Silmic II's. The top line of caps in all the major brands are all too large around. It looks like the Nichicon FG series is the best i can do for the 100uf/100V and 100uf/63V caps. About the only decent cap i can find to fit the 1500uf/35V caps are Panasonic FC or FM series. I am not sure what would be a good replacement for the 3300uf/63V power supply caps. I believe there are some Nichicon 3300 and 6800 that will fit but i haven't really concluded if they are good for the power supply. I have read audio rated caps are not good when replacing the power supply caps. I'd love to here from someone who is also replacing the Nover caps.


----------



## Clemmaster

Quote: 





pongagt said:


> I use my Squeezebox Touch streaming from a NAS exclusively at home and my laptop on the road. I am probably better off leaving the firmware optimized for my Touch running the Enhanced Digital Output app.
> 
> I'm finding there isn't any room for most premium caps in the Compass 2. No way can i fit Silmic II's. The top line of caps in all the major brands are all too large around. It looks like the Nichicon FG series is the best i can do for the 100uf/100V and 100uf/63V caps. About the only decent cap i can find to fit the 1500uf/35V caps are Panasonic FC or FM series. I am not sure what would be a good replacement for the 3300uf/63V power supply caps. I believe there are some Nichicon 3300 and 6800 that will fit but i haven't really concluded if they are good for the power supply. I have read audio rated caps are not good when replacing the power supply caps. I'd love to here from someone who is also replacing the Nover caps.


 
   
  Don't you like the Novers that come with it?


----------



## pongagt

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> Don't you like the Novers that come with it?


 

 I would prefer Elna, Nichicon, or Panasonic Audio capacitors with a track record like the Wima caps and Dale resistors used. Someone here has already confirmed improved sound quality after recapping.


----------



## Uri Cohen

I went ahead and ordered the Compass 2 8741 due to the fact that I enjoy using the NFB 15.32 on my computer more than using my Cyrus CD6S CD player with the vintage Kenwood KA-3500 int amp!  I really love the warmness that the 15.32 provided, also it makes almost all my CDs sound close to analog as possible.  I'm one of those types who willing to lose the high details in order to get the warmth/musicality.  *Cross my fingers.*  
   
  Also I like that I can use the device as an amp only.  It is going to be interested to see what the Cyruss CD player will be, a CD player or a CD transport....


----------



## Uri Cohen

For the record I received the Compass 2 8741.
  
 Setup:
  
 Cyrus CD6S CD Player [Transport only outputting TOSLINK] > Wired World Super Nova 6 TOSLINK cable > Compass 2 8741 TOSLINK input.  
  
  
  
 For the record I opened up the unit and I adjusted the digital filer on the DAC board so it does 2x oversampling, linear-phase, and soft-knee highs roll off.  I'm using the default WM8805 DIR module.  
  
 The reason why I purchased this unit because I enjoyed the sound signature of the NFB-15.32.  I currently use the 15.32 on my computer setup and there were times I enjoy using the 15.32 more than my main setup.  Before the Compass 2 I was using the Cyrus CD6S with DH Labs White Lightning RCA cables to a vintage Kenwood KA-3500 amp.  With this old setup the music at times were on the bright end.  By getting rid of the Kenwood and use the Cyrus as a transport while the Compass 2 does the DAC/Amp duties. 
  
 The Grado line of headphones are to me amazing.  They aren't the most detailed or has the most soundstage comparing to other headphones in the market.  But what the Grado does to my ears is making good music and making music FUN.  The Grado's needs to be hold back at times.  If you don't hold back the Grado then the sound will become bright quickly.  This is true from my experience with Grado cans + digital sources.  
  
 The Compass 2 is a very musical but very warm component.  The low-end is very pleasant but not overpowering, the mid-range is fantastic but not bright, and the highs are lovely without being too overpowering.  Even the worse digital recordings sounded ok on the Compass 2.  
  
 I think for the price I paid for the unit I think it is one of the best buys for an excellent high-end DAC/Amp setup.  If you are only looking for a single-end DAC/Amp setup then I really consider looking at the Compass 2.  I have no need in buying the higher end DAC/Amp setup from Audio-GD where they are using balance inputs while I only need singe-ended.  Quite frankly I found the Compass 2 8741 to be an excellent match for the Grados.
  
 I will admit my review isn't the more detailed but I can pretty much say this:

 If you don't mind detail loss but the music is very warm/musical then get the Compass 2 with the WM8741 DAC,
 If you want netural and more details in the music then get the Compass 2 with the Sabre DAC.


----------



## i019791

How close is sonically the NFB-15.32 to the Compass 2 (8741) ?


----------



## Uri Cohen

Sonic-wise both units area really close.  They both share the same sound signature but the Compass does have more refinement


----------



## seaninbrisbane

I'm just about to order the Sabre version of this DAC - just wondering if anyone is looking to sell theirs?  I'm in Australia.


----------



## uncola

Anyone using this amp with planars like t50rp or he500/lcd-2?  This amp outputs 2000 mW at 50 ohm, is that right?  Would love to hear your experiences with those headphones.  Also how is the pcm5102 version of this amp, seems like a nice budget option


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

uncola said:


> Anyone using this amp with planars like t50rp or he500/lcd-2?  This amp outputs 2000 mW at 50 ohm, is that right?  Would love to hear your experiences with those headphones.  Also how is the pcm5102 version of this amp, seems like a nice budget option


 
 I use Compass 384 which has the PCM5102 with HE-500 daily, sounds really good and transparent IMO. I briefly auditioned the original compass at a meet and decided on my current one. It can output 2 W at 50 ohm or 2.2 W at 38 ohm (HE-500 impedance) at high gain but I keep it at low gain which is more than enough already to get loud IMO. I didn't find too much difference between low and high gain. Really great for the price.


----------



## pongagt

uncola said:


> Anyone using this amp with planars like t50rp or he500/lcd-2?  This amp outputs 2000 mW at 50 ohm, is that right?  Would love to hear your experiences with those headphones.  Also how is the pcm5102 version of this amp, seems like a nice budget option


 

 I have a Compass 2 that i use with a HE-500 occasionally. All i can say is that it sounds great and has plenty of power. I stream music from a NAS into a Squeezebox Touch.


----------



## Dafo

I have the compass 2 with all three dac modules. Of course I've done some dac-rolling to figure out which one I like the best and for the fun of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 
The es9018 pushes detail and can seem a bit bright. The bass is neutral and it has a deep soundstage. The wm8741 has more bass, same deep soundstage and you can tune it with the filters to sound warm and fast at the same time if you like (8x oversampling, minimum phase, apodising filter), or more neutral and fast without getting too bright (8x oversampling, liniear phase, apodising filter) and so on... The pcm5102 also has more bass than the es9018, on the same level as the wm8741, but it is over all more forward and engaging than the wm8741 and the es9018 and this means the bass becomes more punchy and seems even more powerful than the wm8741. The soundstage is not as deep on the pcm5102 as the other two dacs, but it sounds more intimate and fun perhaps. There are two filters on the pcm5102. The FIR-filter is fast and powerful, good for details and fast paced music as you will be abled to hear everything separated and clear all the way down to lowest of low bass. The IIR filter sounds softer, the sound rings more out and with fast music this means the individual notes seem more together and not as clearly separated, and it also means that the bass doesn't hit as clearly and hard as with the FIR-filter. 
 
If you're considering the compass 2, get all the dac modules to go with it. It's the only way to find out what you actually prefer.
The compass 2 is a strange and anonymous amp, it hasn't got a sound of its own, it's all up to you to choose what you want and the compass 2 will deliver in a most convincing manner I can tell you. It becomes a very personal product in the end when you're done finding out what your personal preferences are and have _set the compass to point in your direction_.
So don't ask what the compass 2 sounds like, the question is: what do you want it to sound like?
 
 
Someone questioned the amp design further back in this thread, so just to clear things up: the amp is acss, non-feedback, discrete, the works, on the headphone out.
 
Oh, by the way it has more than ample power for the he-500, k701 and the likes, I used both and power is not an issue, only flavor is


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

dafo said:


> I have the compass 2 with all three dac modules. Of course I've done some dac-rolling to figure out which one I like the best and for the fun of it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 were you able to return the modules after or did you have to keep it?


----------



## Dafo

kamijoismyhero said:


> were you able to return the modules after or did you have to keep it?




I want to keep the modules!
The are two main reasons for that. What if I buy another headphone in the future? Which dac will I prefer then to use with this new headphone? What if my preferences in sound character should change? If I didn't have the different dacs to choose from, I wouldn't be abled to go with the changes in myself, and that's perhaps the best reason for being abled to change the signature in the amp. With the different dacs at hand I never have to think about what may come, if my preferences in sound change I will change the dac to accomodate me. 
It's the other way around with the compass, as to what we're used to, you don't have to accomodate to your new amp, you make it accomodate to you.


----------



## Clemmaster

Excellent comparion here Dafo, thanks a lot


----------



## doodlyd

what is the best value with denon d7000 go to Sabre dac or wm8741 ? compass 2 or 11.32 and 15.32  i just need USB...
 thx


----------



## steveting99

I have the Compass 2 and wished it incorporated a balanced DAC/amp design with mini-XLR and SE output. Maybe this is something for the future - Compass 3? 
  
 It means I have to look for something in between.
  
 Steve


----------



## i019791

steveting99 said:


> I have the Compass 2 and wished it incorporated a balanced DAC/amp design with mini-XLR and SE output. Maybe this is something for the future - Compass 3?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


The corresponding Audio gd balanced unit has been the NFB-10 for years. Recently the NFB-28 was added.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's awesome. A valid comparison of the dac modules. I did find the ES9018 to be quite fast and very neutral. Perhaps a bit faster/dryer/more neutral than I would've personally liked for my headphones. I'm thinking I should've bought it with the warmer Wolfson dac.

I wish A-GD still sold the NFB-5. I kind of want it back.


----------



## steveting99

i019791 said:


> steveting99 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Compass 2 and wished it incorporated a balanced DAC/amp design with mini-XLR and SE output. Maybe this is something for the future - Compass 3?
> ...


 
 I did a quick check on Audio-GD website on the ES9018 products - surprised to see that the Compass 2 is "Balanced DAC + Amp + Preamp" sub-section. The headphone amp is single ended (SE) so there's no possibility of getting mini XLR to drive balanced headsets. Wonder if there's an error in the website, suspect so.
  
 Steve


----------



## i019791

It is indeed a mistake in their site


----------



## john57

I wish that the  AUDIO-GD website is better organized for ordering. There is no real ordering form anywhere on the web site for English. Information is kind of all over the place.


----------



## i019791

There is no ordering form.
You send them an email and ask them to propose for the gear you want.
They usually reply within 24 hours at most.


----------



## SaLX

> *Upgrade TCXO:*
> 
> Compass 9018 : There are two TCXO can for upgrade, one is the 12MHz for the USB interface, another is 80MHz for the ES9018 . Cost is USD20 / per without shipping delay .
> 
> Compass 8741 and Compass 384 : Upgrade the 12MHz for the USB interface clock. Cost is USD20 / per without shipping delay .


 
 How does this work? Is there three, two, or how many variations of TXCO upgrades to be concerned about? What TXCO upgrade is exclusive to what chip?  What if, at a future date, I order the Wolfson module while currently using the Sabre chip - would the existing TXCO's in the unit work with it and vice versa? 
  
 Many thanks - am truly confused by this.
  
_One last annoying question _- if I order future TXCO upgrades from Kingwa, how easy is it to fit these? My brother is a sound engineer and knows his stuff soldering wise etc - just hoping that any instructions I get from Kingwa will help in in fitting without confusion.


----------



## i019791

There are 3 versions of Compass 2, differing in the Dac chip.
 In all versions you can upgrade the usb TXCO. It is the same upgrated chip for all 3 versions.
 In the Sabre 9018 version you can also upgrade the TXCO of the dac chip.
 To change the TXCOs, you pull out the old one and push in the new one. No tools or soldering are required.


----------



## SaLX

Many thanks for the reply I0


----------



## kebbgolive

Having read this post makes me worried about the synergy since bass shy DAC/AMP sounds like a BIG NO NO for Q701. Anyway too late for the worries, I'll wait to try it out.


----------



## DanPluck

kebbgolive said:


> Having read this post makes me worried about the synergy since bass shy DAC/AMP sounds like a BIG NO NO for Q701. Anyway too late for the worries, I'll wait to try it out.




I have had mine for about a year now and do not have any bass issues. I remember it filling out a bit after 100 hours though.


----------



## SaLX

Just ordered a Compass 2 (Sabre) from a private seller in Europe .. fingers crossed. I was alternating between the 11.32 and the 15.32.... at least with the Compass I can side-grade (or down-grade) between the Sabre, Wolfson or the even the PCM5102 so to speak. How many other DAC/Amps offer this flexibility? Er none that I can think of.
  
 It'll come with the DIR9001 SPDIF interface...any opinions on it?


----------



## Dafo

kebbgolive said:


> Having read this post makes me worried about the synergy since bass shy DAC/AMP sounds like a BIG NO NO for Q701. Anyway too late for the worries, I'll wait to try it out.




The compass is in no way bass shy, don't worry about that. For best bass response choose the 8741 or the 5102 dac as mentioned earlier in this thread.
To secure the best bass response in the q701, check this simple mod: http://www.head-fi.org/t/660408/reversible-akg-k701-bass-mod


----------



## Dafo

salx said:


> Just ordered a Compass 2 (Sabre) from a private seller in Europe .. fingers crossed. I was alternating between the 11.32 and the 15.32.... at least with the Compass I can side-grade (or down-grade) between the Sabre, Wolfson or the even the PCM5102 so to speak. How many other DAC/Amps offer this flexibility? Er none that I can think of.
> 
> It'll come with the DIR9001 SPDIF interface...any opinions on it?




Congratulations on choosing the compass  
As you say, given the flexibility of the compass along with all the other features, it is nothing short of a real best buy.


----------



## SaLX

FYI: I found this thread on a Danish thread re: the Compass 2. http://hoved-fi.dk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2862  ***It's been moved / gone**.*
  
*Dafo *> I _have to assume _it's you who wrote it (OP Daf 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!!)  however, it's a more expansive read compared to your great previous post on this thread (a page back): You summed up your experience with all the optional DACs very well indeed. Appreciated.
  
 Microsoft / Bing translate seems to work better. Thanks mate. _PS.. really hope you don't mind me posting this - knowledge is power AND it's Xmas _


----------



## Dafo

salx said:


> FYI: I found this thread on a Danish thread re: the Compass 2. http://hoved-fi.dk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2862
> 
> *Dafo *> I _have to assume _it's you who wrote it (OP Daf
> 
> ...



That is me and I don't mind you posting it 
 
A little info on the compass powering the hifiman he-5le in the spirit of "knowledge is power" 
 
Some time ago bought a used Rotel RB-870BX power amplifier and connected it with the compass 2. I wanted to see if the compass in any way was under-powering my delicious he-5le, just to be sure you know  With all the writing about how the hifimans suddenly "come alive" with extreme power resources, I had to check it out. 
 
To make a long story short, the compass has more than ample power for the he-5le. The rotel amp put out well over 10 watts in 50 ohm, but there was no gain in audio quality, bass extension or whatever, compared to the compass, actually it was the other way around. Both amps were able to play the 5le violently loud, to levels I under no circumstances will ever listen at. The compass showed no weaknesses at all, on the contrary it sounded over all more calm, together, detailed and superior no matter the volume compared to the compass+rotel combo. Conclusion: The compass has more than enough power to drive the hifiman he-5le. 
The 5-le is one of the few orthos that are considered "very hard to drive properly". The compass more than proved itself in this context. So here is another point for the versatile and competent audio-gd compass.


----------



## SaLX

Dafo/IO - 2 quick questions please (or any other C2 users):
  

The DIR modules exist solely to smooth out any jitter via SPDIF as opposed to direct to the Sabre chip - is this a correct assumption? What about the other chips (Wolfson and PCM1502)?
  

The other modules are easy to swap, but is it the same with these DIR modules ie: if I decide I want replace the DIR9001 with the WM8805 would I need to solder it or would it just slot into place?
  
 Many thanks


----------



## cute

Anyone on this thread have an Audio GD WM8805 SPDIF module they would be willing to sell?   Send me a PM!


----------



## Dafo

salx said:


> Dafo/IO - 2 quick questions please (or any other C2 users):
> 
> 
> The DIR modules exist solely to smooth out any jitter via SPDIF as opposed to direct to the Sabre chip - is this a correct assumption? What about the other chips (Wolfson and PCM1502)?
> ...




I'm sorry but I have no experience with the DIR modules and haven't really looked into how they work. But I am pretty sure they are slots and no soldering needed.


----------



## sayh

salx said:


> Dafo/IO - 2 quick questions please (or any other C2 users):
> 
> The DIR modules exist solely to smooth out any jitter via SPDIF as opposed to direct to the Sabre chip - is this a correct assumption? What about the other chips (Wolfson and PCM1502)?
> The other modules are easy to swap, but is it the same with these DIR modules ie: if I decide I want replace the DIR9001 with the WM8805 would I need to solder it or would it just slot into place?



From the product page:
~DIR modules : Users can choice the SPDIF signal feed to either ES9018 direct and through DIR module with 3 jumpers setting , which is simply for users choice different sound flavors . Other DA modules must setting with DIR active model . WM8805 sound slight warmer , support up to 192KHz . DIR9001 sound quite neutral, support up to 96KHz .
 
~You could see all 3 models uses either of the DIR modules, easily exchangeable by removing a screw and unplugged from its slot. It is likely glued on, so just apply a little force in a wriggle fashion.
 
The DIR modules just behind the DA modules:


----------



## DanPluck

I have the WM8741 and PCM5102 modules on the way from China, will be interesting to see how they compare to the ESS


----------



## DanPluck

The good news is that I received the WM8741 and PCM5102 modules today from Kingwa.  As always the service was great and delivery fast.
  
 The bad news is that when removing the Sabre 9018 DAC board from the socket, 3 of the pins detached from the board and had to be removed with needle nose pliers, rendering the Sabre board broken.  Needless to say im absolutely gutted, so please be careful when switching the DAC boards over.


----------



## SaLX

Dan.. that's brutal news. You should email Kingwa (with photographs) to complain. This IS meant to be a modular amp and swapping out various modules is meant to be easy. You've got me worried too, and now I'd be reticent about ordering any new modules from him.
  
 I really don't know if this is possible, but you might want to take the broken board + loose pins to an electronic repair shop and see if they can do resolder.
  
 Keep us updated please. Also point out that you've posted to this board.


----------



## DanPluck

salx said:


> Dan.. that's brutal news. You should email Kingwa (with photographs) to complain. This IS meant to be a modular amp and swapping out various modules is meant to be easy. You've got me worried too, and now I'd be reticent about ordering any new modules from him.
> 
> I really don't know if this is possible, but you might want to take the broken board + loose pins to an electronic repair shop and see if they can do resolder.
> 
> Keep us updated please. Also point out that you've posted to this board.


 
  
 I have emailed Kingwa but I don't want to make a massive deal out of it at this point as these things can happen, not everything is created equal.  The pins are long gone, I would need to get the whole bank of pins replaced.  I just have my fingers crossed for Kingwa's response, I have worked in IT for 20 years so I know what im doing around electronics.


----------



## DanPluck

Well I have spoken to Kingwa and he was sympathetic.  He has offered to repair the DAC board for free as long as I pay all postage fees, which will amount to somewhere in the $60 range if I send it insured and not on a prayer.  Otherwise he is willing to send me some free pins to be re-soldered locally.  
  
 I must admit that I am a little disappointed that I would be asked to pay both inbound and outbound postage for the repair given that I have spent nearly $700 on the Compass 2, shipping and additional DAC modules.


----------



## SaLX

$60!! Did you ask how much a replacement board would cost.. seems like it work out about the same? Mind you I wouldn't bother with insurance, but yeah that sounds a little tight fisted if you ask me, seeing as you've given him so much custom.
  
 What if the problem wasn't the actual module but the female connectors on the main electrical board being too tight and pulling off the pins? Have to tried swapping your new modules? 
  
 Just had a look at Audio-GD's website - their DIY kits / modules etc cost roughly $20 to ship - you get them fast but boy is it expensive. In those terms, he's only charging you $20 to fix it.  My bad.. at least he's doing it for free which seems fair.


----------



## DanPluck

salx said:


> $60!! Did you ask how much a replacement board would cost.. seems like it work out about the same? Mind you I wouldn't bother with insurance, but yeah that sounds a little tight fisted if you ask me, seeing as you've given him so much custom.
> 
> What if the problem wasn't the actual module but the female connectors on the main electrical board being too tight and pulling off the pins? Have to tried swapping your new modules?
> 
> Just had a look at Audio-GD's website - their DIY kits / modules etc cost roughly $20 to ship - you get them fast but boy is it expensive. In those terms, he's only charging you $20 to fix it.


 
 Shipping from china is only $18, its getting it out there that is the problem and that is not really his fault.
  
 Yeah they socket was very very tight.
  
 I always insure my items as id imagine the DAC module will cost about $80 but im waiting for Kingwa to get back to me as its the middle of the night out there now.
 I'm currently running the WM module and I'm really impressed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is why I don't DIY. Always afraid of breaking something, with my huge, clumsy hands.


----------



## Dafo

danpluck said:


> I'm currently running the WM module and I'm really impressed.




Yes, thank goodness it was not the wm8741 that broke 

I have changed between my modules severel times and had no problem. The modules seem pretty strong to me. 
I think it is obvious that the broken module was defective and it would be a shame to write of such a good product as the compass based on this unfortunate incident.


----------



## GigArt

Please share your impressions about sonic differences of modules!


----------



## Dafo

gigart said:


> Please share your impressions about sonic differences of modules!




My impressions are on p14 #200

Edit: here is a little more, but it is in danish http://www.hoved-fi.dk/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3324


----------



## GigArt

dafo said:


> My impressions are on p14 #200


 
 Thanks, I've already read it. Wanna see more opinions!


----------



## DanPluck

dafo said:


> Yes, thank goodness it was not the wm8741 that broke
> 
> I have changed between my modules severel times and had no problem. The modules seem pretty strong to me.
> I think it is obvious that the broken module was defective and it would be a shame to write of such a good product as the compass based on this unfortunate incident.


 
 I agree that the module must have been defective as I have had no issue with any electronics in the past.  I understand that its not a perfect world, not everything is created equal and these things will happen.  There is no doubt the Compass 2 is a great bit of kit, its a good amplifier, great DAC and a decent pre-amp.  I am a little disappointed how Kingwa seems to have taken the stance that it was my fault (though he has not said this directly, its assumed due to his response) and that I will be liable for outgoing and return postage.  Regardless, it is winging its way back to Kingwa for repair and I had a nice surprise at the Post Office as there was no que and it ended up being £4 cheaper than I expected.
  


gigart said:


> Please share your impressions about sonic differences of modules!


 
 The Sabre is exactly what everyone states.  Very detailed, almost clinical and a tiny bit bright.
  
 I have only been using the WM8741 module for a few days now but it is very nice.  Warm, involving and musical, with decent detail.  Its definitely the module I would pick if I wanted to listen to the music and not the hardware.


----------



## mfortpied

Hi Guys,
  
 just placed an order for the Compass 2 (2XW8741) with TXCO option,
  
 I currently use my K601 (better for me  (more linear, more homogeneous), that my previous K701 o Q701) and Etymotic ER4PT with Matrix Mstage and a brand new JDS Odac. Fantastic combination although quite analytical and I have decided to go for the Wolfson version to add a different "flavour" and test different combinations (MStage + Compass2 as DAC, or JDS Odac with Compass2 as Amp, so 4 combinations all in all). I have not asked for the ES9018 chip so far unless I feel that we the Wolfson is too dark for my tastes. 
  
 One question I have though. Would you consider that the Wolfson has a larger soundstage that the SabreES9018? Generally speaking I would tend to think that a "creamier" sound reduces the soundstage. Can anybody confirm this, regarless they own or use the Compass2?
  
 Will keep you posted on my impressions. 
  
 Best regards from Spain.


----------



## SaLX

Read Dafo's link a few posts up
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  He states that the soundstage is the same on both those chips.


----------



## mfortpied

salx said:


> Read Dafo's link a few posts up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks SaLX. I actually wanted some more details about the  sounstage, depth is one thing... but positionning...width..."soundstage" impressions, etc... but thks anyway!
  
 regards


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the ODAC to be smoother, and more dimensional than the ES9018 on the Compass 2. It's subtle, but yeah. The ODAC to me is marginally better. Not worth it over the convenience of the Compass 2s amp/dac simplicity.


----------



## mfortpied

mad lust envy said:


> I find the ODAC to be smoother, and more dimensional than the ES9018 on the Compass 2. It's subtle, but yeah. The ODAC to me is marginally better. Not worth it over the convenience of the Compass 2s amp/dac simplicity.




I find the Odac to be very detailed and clean sounding, a little bit on the cold side although no harshness whatsoever. ...therefore my choice for the Compass2 with Wm8741.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sure I'd prefer the woflson dac chip over the ES9018, which is even colder than the ODAC.


----------



## Dafo

mfortpied said:


> Thanks SaLX. I actually wanted some more details about the  sounstage, depth is one thing... but positionning...width..."soundstage" impressions, etc... but thks anyway!
> 
> regards




I have a little more information regarding the soundstage on the wolfson.
Right now I use my compass as a dac only, bypassing the volume with the 2,5 volt fixed output. 
The soundstage can be both wide and more shallow depending on what recording you are listening to. The positioning is flawless, nothing falls apart, the coherence between left and right is allways there and sometimes the room is more spread out than other times, but it is as I stated before a matter of how the music was intended to sound or how it was recorded. With some recordings I swear it sometimes sounds like someone sneaked a little crossfeed in somewhere between the compass and my headspeaker. I have tested for this of course and there is none  

Hope this answeres some of your questions even though it is not compared to the es9018.


----------



## mfortpied

Thanks a lot for your clear explanation Dafo!
  
 I see that the Wolfson WM8741 tends to be in the long run  the preferred chip for this compass2. Probably the best compromise between detail, softness and overall musicality. As indicated earlier, I am absolutely delighted with the Jds Lab Odac for its transparency and clear presentation. I believe the Compass2 with WM8741 will be an interesting alternative to the Odac. 
  
 having said this, are there somewhere clear instructions on how to modify the jumpers configuration and what effect are to be expected on the resutling sound? I mean where are they physically located on the mother board, how to proceed to change them and what results can we expect if it is in position a or b. Basically a tutorial.  
  
 Best regards


----------



## Dafo

mfortpied said:


> Thanks a lot for your clear explanation Dafo!
> 
> I see that the Wolfson WM8741 tends to be in the long run  the preferred chip for this compass2. Probably the best compromise between detail, softness and overall musicality. As indicated earlier, I am absolutely delighted with the Jds Lab Odac for its transparency and clear presentation. I believe the Compass2 with WM8741 will be an interesting alternative to the Odac.
> 
> ...


 
 There are some basic differences between the filters.
 First two major groups are the minimum phase- and the linear phase filters.
  
 The advantage of the minimum phase is no pre-ringing and more post-ringing(more post-ringing could be listed as a disadvantage though). This sounds more natural to the human ear. Pre-ringing is sound building up before the actual sound impulse.
 The disadvantage is a bit of roll-off in the top frequency.
  
 The advantage of the linear phase filter is… well a linear frequency response.
 The disadvantage is pre-ringing.
  
 You can add either "soft knee" or "brick wall" to the above. Soft knee is a slow roll-off in the treble, brick wall is as little roll-off as possible.
  
 You process the signal more times over with your filter effects with the higher oversampling rate. So a high sampling rate will give you a very exact result given the properties of the filter you've chosen.
  
 The "apodising" is a newer kind of filter where the pre-ringing and post-ringing is dealt with. This is a clear advantage. 
 The disadvantage is small issues with the fase in most of the frequency spectrum. But the audible consequences are inaudible, so it can be argued as irrelevant given the advantages which are indeed audible.
  
 There are pro's and con's to each filter, so it is not a matter of better or worse or right or wrong.
 The question is: Which filter do you think sounds the best. It is all up to you, there's is no reference to hold on to, only your own subjective taste in how you like your digital sound.
  
 Some might say: just go with nos-dac's then, which do not use these digital filters at all. True, but the disadvantage is distortion, noise, bad measurings(not that I personally care about this) and in many cases frequency roll-off in both the treble and bass. I am sure good nos-dacs have been made, even audio-gd has a few on their program, but they're expensive and soon to be rare as the pcm1704 dac is taken out of production.


----------



## mfortpied

Thanks a lot Dafo.
  
 It is becoming very technical for me. Only my ears will be able to "judge" those nuances!
  
 However I believe it is for most of us  interesting to know how do we set this filters (on/off?) on the compass2 or the filters come along the WM8741 chip board as a package?
  
 Simple question but I need to solve "simple" issues to get into "trickier" matters...
  
 Best regards


----------



## SaLX

I've had my Compass 2 (Sabre) for roughly 100 hours of either playing constantly, or just being powered on. It sounded superb a while ago, but now it's developed a strange problem: the bass has lowered a bit and it's now sounding a little shrill, most noticeably with vocals on lower quality files, but it's evident on high quality files but less pronounced.
  
 The worst case is when I watch YouTube or Twitch for instance (using a computer you can't really avoid them): voices are raspy and sharp on both SPDIF and USB. I know the quality is bargain basement with the above sound sources, however they sounded _perfectly pleasant to listen to just a week ago_. Anybody else had this development with the Compass evolving (or devolving)? I saw Currawong's comments on this thread outlining the burn in on these units.. ...I am however a bit concerned. Caveat is.. I don't think anything is wrong with the Compass... no crackling, drop offs or other stuff with HQ files.
  
 I didn't get this unit directly from China, otherwise I would've got both TXCO's - I will get a quote from Kingwa very soon


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Try lowerin the bit rate and frequency response.

Mine worked best at 24/96. When I raised the bit rate to the higher levels, I 1ould get weird distortions myself.

Also, make SURE to NOT bypass the dir chip. The spdif direct setting would also cause distortion problems. The website even stated some sources can't handle spdif direct properly.

I believe the jumpers are set to spdif direct at default, so you'll have to go in and switch them to go through the dir chip. Mine had the DIR9001 chip and worked perfectly. The process to switch the setting is on the compass 2 page. Very simple. Just a pita to grab the jumpers to switch, lol.

I'm almost positive this will fix your issue.


----------



## SaLX

Will try out the DIR9001 module and try out smaple rates, so ty ML. Why though: last week sweet - this week totally crap? Mind you, the same thing is happening in USB mode (to a lesser degree, but still noticeable). I may well just reinstall Windows as it's been it's been a year, and any excuse is a good one. Have another 100 hours to go on the recommended burn in period...... dunno about you lot, but _I have_ noticed this amp changing over time. I remain optimistic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One question: _would it be correct to assume that the DIR modules purpose in life is to A: smooth out a bad optical source? Or B: do they exist as an optional flavour to the sound (just like the Wolfson/Sabre or PCM5102 modules), but solely for optical?_


----------



## Dafo

DIR is short for Digital audio Interface Reciever. Its main purpose here is to reduce jitter and I would also not recommend bypassing the module. Apparently the two different dir-modules offered with the compass also sound a bit different. 

I think soundstage and texture has improved some with burn-in, but I can't say I've detected any major changes in sound as such.

I hope you are abled to solve this issue by using the dir-module.


----------



## SaLX

I'm pretty sure my Compass came with bypass as the default configuration Dafo (for some strange reason), but I will most certainly open it up and check after I fix the _real problem: _
  
 It would appear that for some reason ALL the sounds coming out of my PC are tinny and sibilant, so basically I've pointed the finger in the wrong place (it must be some drivers or codecs that I can't fix). Tested the Compass on my GF's laptop... and it sounds great. What a wild goosechase and sorry for blaming it on my Audio_gd!!!! Windows.... sigh.  Reinstall here we come....... _groan. _ 
  
 I think I will order up the WM8805 receiver along with the TXCO's as I seem to be using SPDIF far more than the USB. BTW: looks like Audio_gd's gone on holiday for a week.
  
 Thank you both for you help


----------



## Dafo

Good 
Sorry about your computer though 
Mine also came with the bypass as default btw. Good thing that it's so easy to fix


----------



## SaLX

I'm going to be ordering up the TXCO's soon. I don't really_ really _need the Wolfson module right now; but mind you, I'd like to get an AKG 7 series at some point soonish and I'm told they benefit from a warmer setup.
  
 Question is this: Imagine 6 months down the line and Audio_gd decides to discontinue the Compass 2. Will they in turn discontinue the other modules like the Wolfson replacement board etc and also the SPDIF DIR modules too? I think I ought to purchase the whole caboodle out of fear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Anybody here know how Audio_gd works in terms of legacy support? Many thanks.
  
  
 **** BTW: That problem I had that I blamed on the amp, my soundcard, the USB connection and computer: it was a hearing infection (no pain whatsoever) that makes everything sound tinny and robotic..... sheesh **** (Sorry everybody)


----------



## mfortpied

Anybody knows why audio gd has stopped producing the compass2 with wolfson 2xWm8741? 

Best regards


----------



## SaLX

The 15.32 (Wolfson) is out of stock - looks like supply issues.


----------



## mfortpied

Thank you Salx biy but one thing is "out of stock" clearly written on their website and another that thw compass2 with wolfson 2xWm8741 doesn’t appear anymore! 

Just sent an email to mr. KINGWA asking him.

Will keep you posted upon reply.


----------



## SaLX

Perhaps the manufacturer of their Wolfson chips or parts was having trouble supplying them, also their 11.32 is out of stock too for whatever reason. They do half mention on the Compass webpage that the Wolfson is still sort of available. But yes, it is worrying. If it does come back I'm ordering immediately.
  
 Thank you for sending an email to Kingwa - hopefully we'll hear back soon


----------



## mfortpied

Hi guys

This is Mr Kingwa's answer to my question regarding wm8741 based products.

I quote: 

dear Marc,The WM8741 board have out of stock, we want to order from the factory to have the stock.It need some few months.KingwaAt 2014-02-09 00:48:16,"Marc FORTPIED"  wrote:Hi Mr. Kingwa! How are you?I received the compass2 with wolfson 2xWm8741 and I am very happy with it.A friend of mine would like to.buy one. But on your website it is no longer available with wolfson. Only pcm and Es9018.You will not produce more compass2 with wolfson?Thanks


----------



## Dafo

That is good news indeed, thanks for posting. I also noticed that the wolfson module wasn't available anymore and I actually thought you mfortpied was lucky and got the last one 
 But I also feared maybe King Wa was phasing out the wolfsons completely. I almost panicked and ordered the nfb-2.32 before it would disappear. Now I can relax, take my own pace and save up for the 2.32. I am keeping the compass btw, I think I will use it for movies in my living room, I can't get myself to sell it, it is such an unusual product and I just want to own it, that's all 
 Another thing, the difference between the compass 8741 dac fixed output and the 2.32 dac is small, I asked King Wa about this and he answered: "_Not much different, but the NFB2.32 a little better if the amp enough good for show the different. The NFB2.32 is better black background, extend on both end and more smooth_". 
 They both share the same high grade components, no smd-stuff, so this makes sense. So congrats fellow compass owners, you also got yourself a hell of a stand alone dac 
 But still I'm going to get a 2.32 for my stax and I really don't care if I won't be able to hear any difference compared to the compass, I actually wish the difference is minimal, as the compass sounds really really good... but still... "_a little better_"... well you know how it is


----------



## Dafo

...aaand it's gone... (nfb-2.32) 

I guess it wasn't meant to be. I had been thinking that buying the 2.32 was a bit silly, since I probably wouldn't be able to hear any difference between it and the compass 8741 dac-only anyway.


----------



## SaLX

Sorry your 2.32 has gone Dafo. Maybe you can pick one up 2nd hand with a bit of luck, or even put a post in 2.32 thread (if there is one and it's allowed). What about the new Wolfson NFB-2 (2014)?
  
 He's certainly pared down the range over the past 3 months or so. Mind you he doesn't seem keen to spend much on the heating bills by the looks of it  http://www.audio-gd.com/Baby-EN.htm


----------



## jodgey4

dafo said:


> ...aaand it's gone... (nfb-2.32)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/NFB22014/NFB2.33EN.htm he just updated the 2.32 to 2.33 (2.33 in url, on site it's called the *NFB-2** (2014)*). Same chip, updated chassis, and not sure what else is different, but dang it looks good! Looks like you're not out of luck.


----------



## Dafo

Yes, it looks to be a bit chilly at audio gd 

About the nfb2(2014), there does not seem to be a choice of digital filters. I have been looking closely at the pictures of the insides, I can't find any pins ready for jumpers and there are no buttons on the front for filters  This is the only reason why I immediately wrote it of, I want to be able to choose my own filter. Also I am going to need an explanation as to how it works with the oversampling, does it adjust automatically or is it set for one optimum performance with either low-, mid- or high sampling rate? And which filter does it use?
I'm taking this slow, there is no hurry, I love the compass as dac, it suits me perfectly, besides the fact that it looks like an amp that is not being used as such. But soundwise with my stax it is actually better than I ever thought it could get and it's the best I have heard to date, no doubt about that. And since I really don't want anything to change, why change anything then? Also let's not forget that _if_ I should want a change in sound, there are other filters available, not to mention the other dac modules


----------



## DanPluck

Well the seemingly simple task of returning my damaged Sabre DAC module has been unnecessarily complicated.
  
 07/01/2014 – Kingwa being helpful and offering to repair the item if I paid for outgoing and return shipping.
  
 10/01/2014 – Item posted via Royal Mail International signed for.
  
 10/01/2014 – Emailed Audio-GD to inform them it was on its way – No response.
  
 17/01/2014 – Emailed Audio-GD to ask if it had arrived. – No response.
  
 23/01/2014 – Emailed Audio-GD to inform them that the Chinese Postal Service attempted to deliver the item . – No response.
             A delivery was attempted for your item with reference XXX in CHINA before 16:38 on 21/01/14.
  
 27/01/2014 – Emailed Audio-GD to follow up on my previous email – Response on the 29th asking for the tracking number
  
 29/01/2014 – Provided tracking number – Response on 31st saying that they will check on the 7th February due to Chinese New Year.
  
 07/02/2014 – Audio-GD stating that they cannot track the number. – I provided a tracking link and restated the tracking number.
  
 11/02/2014 – Audio-GD with the single line of:
 “We locals post officec reply to us , this package has already sent back to England on January 26.”
  
 11/02/2014 – Email to Audio-GD asking how I was disappointed with the service given the number of unanswered emails I sent advising them of the package status. – No response.
  
 So now my Sabre DAC module is on its way back from China, untracked, uninsured, with no response from Audio-GD.
  
 Needless I’m very disappointed with the support i have received (or not).  I have a 40% change of retrieving my Sabre DAC module and even if I do I will have to pay for more shipping charges to get it repaired.


----------



## Dafo

I am sorry you have to go through all that trouble. 
This really should be a simple procedure for you, but it sure has changed and become what I would consider the absolute worst case scenario with shipment worldwide.


----------



## SaLX

Could you have not used Audio_gd's approved carriers? Whatever, this is hugely disappointing. Thing is though, Kingwa really does come over as somebody who cares a lot about his products and aftermarket service. I'm really sorry you went through this ****.


----------



## DanPluck

dafo said:


> I am sorry you have to go through all that trouble.
> This really should be a simple procedure for you, but it sure has changed and become what I would consider the absolute worst case scenario with shipment worldwide.


 
  
 Thanks, i agree this is pretty much the worse case scenario!


salx said:


> Could you have not used Audio_gd's approved carriers? Whatever, this is hugely disappointing. Thing is though, Kingwa really does come over as somebody who cares a lot about his products and aftermarket service. I'm really sorry you went through this ****.


 
 I spoke to Kingwa about this before i sent the item, to send it via DHL it would have cost me nearly $100 and Kingwa was advocating the use of standard airmail as other customers had previously done.  I went a step further for my own assurance and it didnt do me much good!
  
 Im still waiting for a response from Audio-GD, i really hope we can come to an amicable solution,  as it stands im currently out of pocket to the tune of $120.


----------



## gapson

danpluck said:


> Well the seemingly simple task of returning my damaged Sabre DAC module has been unnecessarily complicated.
> 
> 07/01/2014 – Kingwa being helpful and offering to repair the item if I paid for outgoing and return shipping.
> 
> ...




I am sorry to hear, but you shall be aware that the most factories / stores in China would be closed and empty for a long period of time during Lunar New Year. The time u had delivered your parcel was exactly their holiday period as stated perviously in their web site, so be sure to contact Kingwa or any salesman in China before if he could make any arrangement on your delivery / purchase or anything


----------



## DanPluck

gapson said:


> I am sorry to hear, but you shall be aware that the most factories / stores in China would be closed and empty for a long period of time during Lunar New Year. The time u had delivered your parcel was exactly their holiday period as stated perviously in their web site, so be sure to contact Kingwa or any salesman in China before if he could make any arrangement on your delivery / purchase or anything


 
 As far as I was aware the attempted delivery of the package was before Audio-GD’s shutdown for Chinese New Year.  I had sent several emails to Kingwa before I sent it and several once delivery was attempted which were responded to by Audio-GD representatives, so in short they were well aware that the package was on its way.
  
 Since then I have sent several emails to Audio-GD asking that we can discuss an amicable solution to this difficult issue.  None of which have been responded to, in fact my last email was 5 days ago to which I have yet to receive a response.
  
 Having a background in IT I understand that there can be issues with email services etc., so I setup an additional email account asking for a quote on a new piece of Audio-GD equipment, to which I received a formal quote in less than 6 hours. 
  
 So it’s getting pretty clear that Audio-GD is either considering how to respond or completely ignoring my emails.  I wouldn’t like to guess which. 
  
 I can understand the difficulties around the delivery of my package; it’s the lack of response that is driving me mad at the moment.  It’s a pretty poor show from a historically very customer focused company.  I have no issue eating a little humble pie if Audio-GD are able to atleast respond to my emails, but i will not simply forget about the issue.


----------



## Dafo

Aargh! It's allmost aching me to read this. I so much want gd to just send you a new module.... please!


----------



## Kingwa

I can't reply any words by the Micsoft IE, just setup the firefox for reply you.
  
 I don't think this this is had fault by us.
 We have try some times contact the post office but never have find your pack's inform. You must know the post office not under our control.
  
 If you shipping with EMS or DHL or other express, they will call us and delivery the pack,so there will have not any issues.
  
  
 I just check the email, and find the matter.
 I was ask you shipping to this the address detail as follow:
 2nd industrial park, Fulu , Leliu ,Shunde Distric,
 City: Foshan
 Province: Guangdong
 Country: China
 Postal code: 528322
 TEL:
 0086 757 25636128  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





0086 757 25636128 
 0086 757 25636118  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




0086 757 25636118 
 Name : Zhong Xing Hua
  
 But you inform me you shipping the detail as follow:
 Kingwa
 2nd industrial park, Fulu , Leliu ,Shunde Distric, 
 City: Foshan 
 Province: Guangdong 
 Country: China
  
 Without the Chinese name (Zhong Xing Hua) and without the telephone number, even you shipping a lot times but the post office still will return to you.


----------



## mowglycdb

Postal Code is mandatory too, I've learned


----------



## DanPluck

kingwa said:


> Informative post.


 
 Thank you for the response Kingwa, a little information goes a long way!
 It looks like a bit of a communication breakdown.  Kingwa had sent the full return address to me in an earlier email (which was truncated by Gmail) and we had the following exchange:
  
  

  




 I understood the “OK” as confirmation that the address I was sending it to was correct.  The Chinese postal service state they attempted delivery on the 21st January, to which we will never know what they meant!  The subsequent lack of response from Audio-GD over an extended period was unfortunate.
  
 On the basis of the above email exchange and communication breakdown I can only offer my apologies to Audio-GD and Kingwa.  On this basis I’m happy to either delete my previous posts or leave them here (and this apology) to serve as a lesson for people in the future.  In the meantime I will get back under my rock and hope that I do not take a $100 hit as a result of this process.
  
 Thanks again for the response Kingwa.


----------



## Dafo

What a relief


----------



## SaLX

If anybody's in the UK.. have you seen the exchange rate?? .. it's almost 1USD = 1.7GBP! (ie.... really good and may get even better). Going to be buying some upgrades from Audio-gd, shame the Wolfson module won't be around till mid March.
  
 @Danpluck... that's a serious bummer, and I'm sure we all here feel for you and what happened.


----------



## SaLX

I sent an email off a few days ago asking for a quote about upgrades. Is audio-gd@126.com the correct email address for this? I bought my Compass 2nd hand/new, therefore I have no idea how it all works. Thought they would've got back to me by now, or am I being unreasonable?
  
 Any help would be appreciated


----------



## sayh

salx said:


> I sent an email off a few days ago asking for a quote about upgrades. Is audio-gd@126.com the correct email address for this? I bought my Compass 2nd hand/new, therefore I have no idea how it all works. Thought they would've got back to me by now, or am I being unreasonable?
> 
> Any help would be appreciated


 
 Did you get an auto reply confirming they got your email?
 If not, try using an alternate email address.


----------



## SaLX

Good point sayh and thanks... no I didn't get an automated reply. The only other email address on the site is king-wa@hotmail.com but you seem to be discouraged from using it. Will try sending it again. 
  
 *** Edit: Got an auto reply! ***


----------



## SaLX

K.. got the quote.. was surprised to see this: "The TCXOs upgrade want to solder for take off the old clock and install the TCXOs , do you confirm you can solder?".
  
 I thought the TXCO modules just slotted in on all the Audio_gd models? Fair enough, I can get my brother (sound engineer) to solder, but there are no instructions on the site.


----------



## sayh

salx said:


> K.. got the quote.. was surprised to see this: "The TCXOs upgrade want to solder for take off the old clock and install the TCXOs , do you confirm you can solder?".
> 
> I thought the TXCO modules just slotted in on all the Audio_gd models? Fair enough, I can get my brother (sound engineer) to solder, but there are no instructions on the site.




Both the tcxo will look similar to the existing 2 already soldered on the es9018 and the usb32 pcbs.
Make sure to take note of the correct position with the white dot placement and the frequency written on the old oscillators.
Unscrew and take out both pcbs lightly by wiggling them.
Then just desolder the old, and solder in the new ones, making sure the frequency and positioning are in their correct location.


----------



## SaLX

@sayh. Thank you very much for that! I can only assume I've circled the TCXO's correctly **Edit: yeah pretty sure **


----------



## katariat

Hi Guys, i am new to the forum but have benefited a lot by reading your inputs. I bought a used Compass 2 from ebay with the sabre chip. I really liked the overall DAC section and its implementation. I had an old NFB 12 (adaptive USB) and i think the new implementation has come a long way. However i did some A/B testing with the analog line in, i was appalled at how bad it was. Direct output from headphone socket was better than thru the compass. I was little disappointed and wasnt sure if i had to change some settings/ filters. I was wondering if any of you have compared the analog line in section of Compass 2 and if you have similar experience. I thought this was one of the advantages of the compass as it gave an option of a analog line input


----------



## i019791

"Direct output from headphone socket" - which socket ? Is it an already amplified signal ?
  
 Do you have another standalone headphone amp ?
  
Can you rank::
 NFB-12 dac + NFB-12 amp 
 NFB-12 dac + Compass 2 amp
 Compass 2 dac + Compass 2 amp
 "Headphone socket" + Compass 2 amp
 "Headphone socket" ?
  
 And are you sure that your interconnects are decent ?


----------



## katariat

My apologies, you are correct, my post is little confusing. The socket i meant was direct analog output from headphone jack on the laptop. I also did some other comparisions and this is the ranking (best to worst)
  
 a) laptop usb + compass 2 dac/ amp : best output in terms of separation, bass, dynamics, sound staging etc
 b) laptop usb + nfb 12 dac/ amp:  second best but the sound staging and the separation of instruments is not that great. The highs can be a bit harsh and lacks bass
 c) laptop analog out + tandberg 3002a preamp: this preamp has a headphone out. Muddy output, vocals are laid back compared to (a) and (b) above. I guess this combo doesnt use any dedicated DAC as its relying on the laptops conversion
 d) direct laptop analog out
 e) compass 2 analog input


----------



## i019791

I suggest you forget your laptop analog out, as it could well be garbage in - garbage out.
  
 So your tandberg 3002a preamp is also a standalone head amp, meaning that you can directly compare it with the Compass 2 amp part.
  
I would try and rank all possible combinations to clarify things:
 NFB-12 + tandberg
 Compass 2 + tandberg
 NFB-12 + Compass 2
 Compass 2
 NFB-12


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I'm possibly looking at an upgrade for my Audioquest Dragonfly and JDS Labs O2, which are used with my HE-400. I was wondering how much of an upgrade a Sabre or Wolfson Compass 2 would be? Could someone please make a quick comparison for me?


----------



## katariat

i dont have audioquest dragonfly but i had to buy a reasonable dac for a friend in India and went for schiit modi, which i would put in the same league as audioquest. After listening through multiple tracks over a period of time my observations were that modi is a good starter dac but compass 2 is way better on probably all fronts. Where Compass outshines modi by a huge scale is the air in the vocals, timbre and the instrument separation. After some time, i didn't enjoy the music as much as i do when listening thru Compass, i felt that modi was a bit sterile.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

katariat said:


> i dont have audioquest dragonfly but i had to buy a reasonable dac for a friend in India and went for schiit modi, which i would put in the same league as audioquest. After listening through multiple tracks over a period of time my observations were that modi is a good starter dac but compass 2 is way better on probably all fronts. Where Compass outshines modi by a huge scale is the air in the vocals, timbre and the instrument separation. After some time, i didn't enjoy the music as much as i do when listening thru Compass, i felt that modi was a bit sterile.


Thanks for the help . The Dragonfly I find is a bit warm and overly smooth, it seems to cover up detail a bit. Would you say that upgrading headphones or getting a Compass 2 would be more worth my while? I was thinking a Pandora Hope VI, since nothing is really interesting me in the ~$700 headphone market.


----------



## katariat

Based on my experience if I had the extra dollar, I would invest in a better DAC. The rationale is getting a better/ cleaner output closer to the source. The DAC section of compass vs NFB 11 ($299) should be pretty comparable if u are looking at cheaper alternatives. With compass u get lot of customization and a line input. Look out for used ones, I had better luck on ebay


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

katariat said:


> Based on my experience if I had the extra dollar, I would invest in a better DAC. The rationale is getting a better/ cleaner output closer to the source. The DAC section of compass vs NFB 11 ($299) should be pretty comparable if u are looking at cheaper alternatives. With compass u get lot of customization and a line input. Look out for used ones, I had better luck on ebay


Thanks for the advice, I'll keep my eyes opened.


----------



## DMax99

Is this dac/Amp worth getting for around 450?


----------



## sayh

dmax99 said:


> Is this dac/Amp worth getting for around 450?


 
 Worthy or not depends on what you are looking at. Tell us about your collection of gears, someone might be of help to your queries.


----------



## DMax99

I like transparent, clean and detailed sound with good soundstage. 

Atm I'm using the Asus xonar essence one muse. I've a burson soloist coming soon too. I will be pairing it with my new hd800. 

So just wondering if it will sound better than my Asus xonar essence one muse. 

Thanks


----------



## sayh

dmax99 said:


> I like transparent, clean and detailed sound with good soundstage.
> Atm I'm using the Asus xonar essence one muse. I've a burson soloist coming soon too. I will be pairing it with my new hd800.
> So just wondering if it will sound better than my Asus xonar essence one muse.
> Thanks




You will likely hear what you like with the compass 2 es9018.and it will outdo the xonar muse like it do with my previous stx. My POV, hd800 sounds too bright to my ears, pairing with soloist seems to make it brighter and sounds flat. If you have an intention to pair compass2 with hd800, i will recommend going with compass wm8741 or pcm5102 version.


----------



## DMax99

sayh said:


> You will likely hear what you like with the compass 2 es9018.and it will outdo the xonar muse like it do with my previous stx. My POV, hd800 sounds too bright to my ears, pairing with soloist seems to make it brighter and sounds flat. If you have an intention to pair compass2 with hd800, i will recommend going with compass wm8741 or pcm5102 version.


 

 Have you heard the E1 Muse before? I was thinking of getting a compass 2 and all of its possible swappable components so I can have some fun rolling them


----------



## sayh

dmax99 said:


> Have you heard the E1 Muse before? I was thinking of getting a compass 2 and all of its possible swappable components so I can have some fun rolling them



Did Not hear the muse but cant be far off my previous st. Go on help yourself with all the fun, there is a post somewhere here with the impressions on components rollings.


----------



## conquerator2

NFB 28 is 680 now a future proof balanced and single ended setup... On the other hand, the compass is 499, 429 for double WMs and 399 for PCMs... 
What's the consensus on the WM8741 vs PCM5102? I take it the 5102 is the least detailed/most musical, WM is the middle ground and ESS is the least musical most detailed...
Decisions, decisions...


----------



## Clemmaster

For the HE-560, I would get the Wolfson.


----------



## conquerator2

clemmaster said:


> For the HE-560, I would get the Wolfson.




Thing is, I had the WM with the 6s (3.32) and wasn't particularly impressed... Might have been the 6s fault though...
I am just planning ahead in case of Mstage not being up to snuff


----------



## Clemmaster

conquerator2 said:


> Thing is, I had the WM with the 6s (3.32) and wasn't particularly impressed... Might have been the 6s fault though...
> I am just planning ahead in case of Mstage not being up to snuff


 
  
 Do you plan on keeping the M-Stage?
 I would suggest going All-in-one to get a more powerful amp.
  
 Going from the M-Stage to the SA-31 was a substantial change with my planars (HE-4 & HE-500 back then). The 560 still has a quite low efficiency @90dB.


----------



## conquerator2

clemmaster said:


> Do you plan on keeping the M-Stage?
> I would suggest going All-in-one to get a more powerful amp.
> 
> Going from the M-Stage to the SA-31 was a substantial change with my planars (HE-4 & HE-500 back then). The 560 still has a quite low efficiency @90dB.


 
 That I don't know yet. If I am to upgrade, I'd probably ditch the Mstage and get the Compass 2/ NFB 28...
 If I don't stumble across even better, similarly priced combos...
 Speaking of which, the Mstage w/ DAC module is very stellar so far... So I'd really have to feel that the 560 is underperforming... I don't wanna throw quids around for subtle improvements


----------



## sayh

conquerator2 said:


> Thing is, I had the WM with the 6s (3.32) and wasn't particularly impressed... Might have been the 6s fault though...
> I am just planning ahead in case of Mstage not being up to snuff




Isnt an agd 3.32 just an dac? Which amp did you pair them with?


----------



## conquerator2

sayh said:


> Isnt an agd 3.32 just an dac? Which amp did you pair them with?




Emo Mini-X a-100 but you bring a good point...
Could have been synergy or something else, I am certainly not gonna blame the WM DAC.


----------



## sayh

conquerator2 said:


> Emo Mini-X a-100 but you bring a good point...
> Could have been synergy or something else, I am certainly not gonna blame the WM DAC.


 
 Blame the mini x 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the 6 should at least go with the 28 back then.
  
 560 with compass 2 will be ok, and which implementation ?
 Your ears will decide !


----------



## conquerator2

Indeed, my ears will decide if an upgrade is necessary


----------



## Mad Max

Still no M-Stage (or SA-31) vs. Compass 2 feedback?  I'm not finding the other impressions terribly useful.


----------



## DanPluck

I'm on my mobile so I can't give you a detailed rundown but I owned the matrix and then upgraded to the compass 2 when I had the HE400. I now own the HE500 and the C2, while the matrix is a fine amp, the compass 2 is in a different class, especially when it comes to orthos.


----------



## Utopia

mad max said:


> Still no M-Stage (or SA-31) vs. Compass 2 feedback?  I'm not finding the other impressions terribly useful.


 
 I think head-fier Mad Lust Envy has had both.


----------



## conquerator2

Compass 2 or NFB 28... Ahhh, my brain hurts... Anyone? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Ordered the Compass 9018 to replace the Mstage.


----------



## DanPluck

conquerator2 said:


> Compass 2 or NFB 28... Ahhh, my brain hurts... Anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Nice, try and pick up the alternative DAC modules with your order too, well worth the cash.


----------



## conquerator2

danpluck said:


> conquerator2 said:
> 
> 
> > Compass 2 or NFB 28... Ahhh, my brain hurts... Anyone?
> ...


 
 Or maybe not... I might spring for the NFB28, I am undecided yet.


----------



## sayh

conquerator2 said:


> Or maybe not... I might spring for the NFB28, I am undecided yet.



Great choice i say


----------



## conquerator2

sayh said:


> Great choice i say


 
 Yeah for 680 I think I gotta 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 [also fixed your post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]
  
 EDIT: But 'tis a different decision :/
  
 EDIT2: Bought the Compass 2 w/ ESS9018! HYPE!
  
 How'd you describe the ESS Compass 2's signature? It's neutral, right?


----------



## pearljam50000

Does it pair ok with HD800 as DAC/amp?
And if so, which version should i get?


----------



## conquerator2

FYI, I've been contemplating whether to go with the Compass2 or NFB28 and I've discussed this with Kingwa to a great length (much kudos to him). I've come to the following conclusions:

- In single-ended use they're very similar
- The NFB28 has the benefit of a balanced design, enabling one to use balanced inputs (RCA vs XLR related differences) and balanced output (which in theory should make the headphone sound a bit better and more controlled + the balanced design of the amp, which should make the amp section a bit better)
- The balanced output is basically the one thing that makes the NFB28 better (single ended vs balanced termination)
- NFB28 uses digital relay controls and digital volume control, which he says is better even sonically, I personally like ALPS analogue volume pots just as much and not really sure about sonic merits 
- NFB28 uses an R-core transformer while the C2 uses a smaller 'high quality' 45W transformer. No idea if that makes a difference 
- DAC section is identical 
C2 has a line in through an op-amp, NFB28 has a direct input. 
- With the stock op-amp, difference [line-in vs direct] should be small if any (my guess) 
- C2 can roll DACs, and op-amps for line in, NFB28 cannot 
- Both have plenty of power to drive everything short of the HE-6

In the end I went with the Compass because going balanced would mean further investments (cables or even sources or converters) and without using the balanced output the difference is 'slight' since the DAC and single-ended amp sections are almost identical. (C2 is slightly more powerful even).

In conclusion if you are ready for balanced get the NFB28 (or upper models), if you roll single-ended (I only utilize the USB in and line in and a SE output is more viable for me cause most headphones come like that... Reterminatiom or balanced cables = money over budget...) spring for the C2.

Both amazing units for the price


----------



## sayh

conquerator2 said:


> EDIT: But 'tis a different decision :/
> EDIT2: Bought the Compass 2 w/ ESS9018! HYPE!
> How'd you describe the ESS Compass 2's signature? It's neutral, right?




Agd has got a house sound of its own, never sound harsh or digital to me. Even though there are different implementation, ess will sound specifically most neutral, no emphasize on a certain band. Different implementation gives you slightly more to the neutral side of forwardness or warmness, making certain bands go ever so slightly fuller dependent on the cans you use with it.
Just remember to give it a few hundred hours of usage to really make an impression, though it might already sound good enough out of the box ,and they matches well with most full size cans, no disappointment with your new cans as well.
Enjoy!


----------



## conquerator2

sayh said:


> Agd has got a house sound of its own, never sound harsh or digital to me. Even though there are different implementation, ess will sound specifically most neutral, no emphasize on a certain band. Different implementation gives you slightly more to the neutral side of forwardness or warmness, making certain bands go ever so slightly fuller dependent on the cans you use with it.
> Just remember to give it a few hundred hours of usage to really make an impression, though it might already sound good enough out of the box ,and they matches well with most full size cans, no disappointment with your new cans as well.
> Enjoy!




Nice to hear, thanks


----------



## conquerator2

Ok, Just received the Compass 2 ESS9018, going through USB32 [ASIO] - amp part - K612s
 And wow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Loving it, even with the Ks, Mstage is no contest, it's a different sound but it's smoother and so faaaaaaast and tiiiiiiiiiiight but still so dynamic. Damn, hats off to Kingwa.
 Mstage sounds slow and romantic in comparison... but different strokes for different people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is pre-burned in, so I'll receive my final judgment for after that [it's a bit sibilant, but I blame the K612 too as it has more or less sibilance with anything]
  
 Also, the knobs - not working as I expected... The other way around they work, it turns out.
  
 But so happy so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [EDIT: Clinical? Nope... Very neutral & transparent, tons of details... Gives you exactly what's in the recording IMO]
  
 EDIT: So far C2 - very good center stage, left and right panning, good holographic soundstage - defines a good very good amp/DAC/headphone. MStage did not exhibit such refinement, but it was more musical and 1/2 price. K612 never sounded better, but it also reveals a headphone's shortcomings.
  
 [FYI, line in and USB [selector 1] can't be used at the same time. It just won't work so to use line in, you have to switch the selector to 2 or 3]. I suspect it has to do with the relay muting but it's only a minor hassle. Plus, the USB hum through line in.


----------



## SaLX

Glad to hear you're liking it Conquerator - yeah it's most certainly _not_ cold and clinical as you point out  You'll need a lot of burn in to get the sound to mature btw, exactly as Kingwa recommends!
  
 I've got to step up and seriously get better headphones to match this amp, but my eyes are on the AKG 712's which people say would suit the warmer Wolfson addon board for the C2 (which I haven't got yet).


----------



## conquerator2

salx said:


> Glad to hear you're liking it Conquerator - yeah it's most certainly _not_ cold and clinical as you point out  You'll need a lot of burn in to get the sound to mature btw, exactly as Kingwa recommends!
> 
> I've got to step up and seriously get better headphones to match this amp, but my eyes are on the AKG 712's which people say would suit the warmer Wolfson addon board for the C2 (which I haven't got yet).


 
 Yeah, thanks Sal,
 The C2 certainly sounds better each day.
 Also, FYI, the K712 [K612s higher brother], that is if it's signature is like the K612s, but perhaps even more musical, might not benefit so much from the Wolfsons IMO...
 Certainly would first try the K712 with the Sabre and only then think about the WMs.
  
 I thought about getting the WM chip right away when I heard the C2 with the K612 but with time [and burn in] that notion is fading away :]


----------



## Clemmaster

Take some times for your brain to adjust.
 As long as it's not hard or glary (as in lack of refinement), a brighter sound is not a bad thing per se.


----------



## conquerator2

clemmaster said:


> Take some times for your brain to adjust.
> As long as it's not hard or glary (as in lack of refinement), a brighter sound is not a bad thing per se.


 
 Not even bright, just very neutral & revealing.
 Possibly the most revealing piece of kit I've ever owned.
 Makes distinguishing between different music genres & quality so easy for better or worse, but it's quite amazing.
 I am thinking this is the brink of diminishing returns as there's not much more improvement I could imagine, at least now.
 Things sound just so clear and easy to pinpoint, it's mental!


----------



## sayh

conquerator2 said:


> Not even bright, just very neutral & revealing.
> Possibly the most revealing piece of kit I've ever owned.
> Makes distinguishing between different music genres & quality so easy for better or worse, but it's quite amazing.
> I am thinking this is the brink of diminishing returns as there's not much more improvement I could imagine, at least now.
> Things sound just so clear and easy to pinpoint, it's mental!





Great, now that it is turning out to be amazing.
Not trying to tempt you, but wait you hear its upper tier siblings and has an intention to go balanced some day. 
Keep reporting back till you hit the 300hr mark then.


----------



## conquerator2

sayh said:


> Great, now that it is turning out to be amazing.
> Not trying to tempt you, but wait you hear its upper tier siblings and has an intention to go balanced some day.
> Keep reporting back till you hit the 300hr mark then.


 
 That's something I am always ready for, provided I have funds to spare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am sure it gets a little better with each tier but right now I am not feeling like I am missing anything with the C2 and I really know that feeling very well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll be reporting back :]


----------



## SSandDigital

Maybe it's in this thread already, apologize if not searched well enough.
  
 Has anyone compared the Compass 2 to the NFB-11 with SABRE?  I'm curious if there are any sonic differences.


----------



## conquerator2

ssanddigital said:


> Maybe it's in this thread already, apologize if not searched well enough.
> 
> Has anyone compared the Compass 2 to the NFB-11 with SABRE?  I'm curious if there are any sonic differences.


 
 I'd imagine the C2 is quite a bit better.
 - The amp part is more powerful [and I think I remember reading somewhere NFB11 being worse in this regard]
 - C2 is twice as heavy and eats twice as much power
 - DAC part should be similar
 - C2 uses higher quality parts [better potentiometer, higher grade transformer, better resistors, etc] but no idea if that actually affects things much
  
 On the outside the NFB11 looks like a poor man's C2 but the insides leave me a bit dubious... You can always ask Kingwa, he's honest about this stuff.


----------



## Mad Max

It will get confusing if you guys starting calling the Compass2 "C2" like the series of A-gd amplifiers of the same designation.

Kingwa might not have any C2 variants for sale right now, but I wouldn't bet that he has discontinued them permanently.


----------



## SSandDigital

conquerator2 said:


> I'd imagine the C2 is quite a bit better.
> - The amp part is more powerful [and I think I remember reading somewhere NFB11 being worse in this regard]
> - C2 is twice as heavy and eats twice as much power
> - DAC part should be similar
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, it's questionable if the parts are higher quality or not other than maybe potentiometer since even Bryston doesn't use the discrete resistors Kingwa likes to use.  And it's also questionable if those "higher" grade parts would provide better sound which is why I was asking.  I know there have been complaints about the previous NFB-11/12 for the amp.  
  
 I have the NFB-12 I believe, dual WM8741 and I use the 8x minimal phase, 24/48 with all my music, movies and games.  I have a DIY modded Tripath chip amp, converted to power amp, the NFB has been great functioning as a pre-amp.  So that's where I am right now.
  
 I'm looking to create a second system with possibly a Compass/NFB-11 (Sabre), a better Tripath Amp.  Also considering getting the Oppo PM-2 when it's released, so looking for a Amp/DAC worthy of it without upsetting the significant other :/


----------



## conquerator2

ssanddigital said:


> Yeah, it's questionable if the parts are higher quality or not other than maybe potentiometer since even Bryston doesn't use the discrete resistors Kingwa likes to use.  And it's also questionable if those "higher" grade parts would provide better sound which is why I was asking.  I know there have been complaints about the previous NFB-11/12 for the amp.
> 
> I have the NFB-12 I believe, dual WM8741 and I use the 8x minimal phase, 24/48 with all my music, movies and games.  I have a DIY modded Tripath chip amp, converted to power amp, the NFB has been great functioning as a pre-amp.  So that's where I am right now.
> 
> I'm looking to create a second system with possibly a Compass/NFB-11 (Sabre), a better Tripath Amp.  Also considering getting the Oppo PM-2 when it's released, so looking for a Amp/DAC worthy of it without upsetting the significant other :/


 
 Well, I needed the RCA input so had to go for the C2 [or NFB28].
 The C2 does sound better every day though :}


----------



## SaLX

conquerator2 - thanks for the insights on the AKG's - very much appreciated. Basically buy the headphones first, then check out if the other boards are required or not. I guess that's the beauty of the Compass: it's totally configurable.
  
 I seriously doubt I'll be buying another amp/dac combo ever again, or at least for the foreseeable future. All I want now is better headphones.. and that'll be me totally happy   The K712's are where I'm heading I think.
  
 One satisfied customer.


----------



## SSandDigital

salx said:


> conquerator2 - thanks for the insights on the AKG's - very much appreciated. Basically buy the headphones first, then check out if the other boards are required or not. I guess that's the beauty of the Compass: it's totally configurable.
> 
> I seriously doubt I'll be buying another amp/dac combo ever again, or at least for the foreseeable future. All I want now is better headphones.. and that'll be me totally happy   The K712's are where I'm heading I think.
> 
> One satisfied customer.


 
  
 Bought the K712 today, contemplating upgrading the dual WM8741 NFB-11 to Compass.  Haven't decided yet.  Wish the Compass didn't use an OpAmp and direct like the NFB-28.  Bummer.


----------



## i019791

There is no WM8741 NFB-11, you probably meant NFB-12 or 15
 And the opamp of Compass 2 is relevant only when not using the Compass 2 dac section, which is not the common way to operate the unit


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah the op amp in the section sucks but I seriously doubt anyone could tell a difference with or without it. It's a neutral op amp like the rest of the unit.
The NFB28 main advantage is the balanced increase of power and a possibility to bump the RCA input by 6db.
The op amp is a minor thing IMO... 

Still, I might upgrade from the C2 to the NFB28 if I am not happy and should money allow...


----------



## conquerator2

Very transparent... Enough said. Every track and album sounds so bloody different it drives me crazy sometimes -_-


----------



## pearljam50000

How is the Sabre 9018 version with HD800 as DAC/amp?


----------



## WillMase

Received mine today. Paired with HD650s playing CD Rips and some tracks from Spotify Premium (320kbps ogg vorbis).
  
 I only got to play it for about an hour before work and it sounds very detailed especially noticeable in the wash of cymbals and in the bass. HD650 mids are always good and they just sound better with this. The build quality is of a reasonable standard.
  
 I got mine with the 9018 chip and upgraded TCXOs.
  
 I'll post more impressions after I get home and use it again for a few hours.
  
 Was recommended to look at the NFB-11 in this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/727202/upgrade-my-hd650-setup
  
 but decided to go with the compass 2.


----------



## conquerator2

willmase said:


> Received mine today. Paired with HD650s playing CD Rips and some tracks from Spotify Premium (320kbps ogg vorbis).
> 
> I only got to play it for about an hour before work and it sounds very detailed especially noticeable in the wash of cymbals and in the bass. HD650 mids are always good and they just sound better with this. The build quality is of a reasonable standard.
> 
> ...




Good choice.
Compass2 is great. Solid DAC and amp.


----------



## WillMase

After a good few hours use and listening I have one word to say about this product: amazing.


----------



## pearljam50000

willmase said:


> After a good few hours use and listening I have one word to say about this product: amazing.



Could you elaborate please?
How is the DAC section, and how is the amp section?
Thanks!


----------



## WillMase

pearljam50000 said:


> Could you elaborate please?
> How is the DAC section, and how is the amp section?
> Thanks!


 
 I've never really done reviews of audio products but I'll try.
  
 Build:
 I personally don't like the silver buttons/dials with black brushed metal as I think it looks bad but that's personal opinion. The quality of the buttons/dials however is very good. The volume knob is very good it has just enough friction, however I do prefer the volume knob on my NAD C316BEE which is a relatively cheap stereo integrated amplifier. I've never had a headphone jack like the one on the Compass but it's very good you can't pull your headphones out unless you push the red tab in. I like that. 
 6/10 (I feel as though I'm being harsh here but I can't bring myself to give more)
  
 Sound:
 Well in a nutshell it's just more detailed to what I'm used to (Music Fidelity V-DAC into my speaker amplifier NAD C316BEE then headphone out of that).
  
 The sabre chip is meant to be precise and analytic. In that case with the HD650s it takes nothing way from their charm. The mids are as good as ever with the HD650 but what it does do is give more detail in the low frequencies and especially in the highs, more so than the lows. Things like the wash of cymbals are just so much more shimmery, not in a harsh way, in a perfect way dare I say it. I feel as though it takes nothing away from the HD650 it only improves it.
  
 In terms of power, it has plenty. On High Gain I can go up to about 12 o clock and that's almost unbearable for me. 
 9/10
  
  
 Just an extra thing. The delivery time was insane. I ordered on Friday evening (UK) which is saturday morning in China, they said 2 working days lead time then they dispatch. I get an email on Tuesday evening in the UK saying it's dispatched it arrived on Thursday morning. Turn around time is insane.
 Anything else I can help you with just ask.


----------



## pearljam50000

Thanks


----------



## cel4145

Are any of you guys former Compass 1 owners? There's a used one on Ebay, and I'm just trying to figure out how it might compare (in general) to newer Audio-GD offerings like the NFB-15. 

Thanks


----------



## conquerator2

cel4145 said:


> Are any of you guys former Compass 1 owners? There's a used one on Ebay, and I'm just trying to figure out how it might compare (in general) to newer Audio-GD offerings like the NFB-15.
> 
> Thanks




I'd expect a slight improvement overall and a significant improvement when using USB input.


----------



## cel4145

conquerator2 said:


> I'd expect a slight improvement overall and a significant improvement when using USB input.




That's good to know. Sounds like it might be worth buying then


----------



## cel4145

Oopps. I just realized that you might have talking about the NFB-11 being better given the comment about USB. Which is it?


----------



## conquerator2

cel4145 said:


> Oopps. I just realized that you might have talking about the NFB-11 being better given the comment about USB. Which is it?




It also applies to the NFB11.
So NFB11 will be a bit better overall and significantly better over USB than Compass1. Compass2 is a slight improvement over NFB11.


----------



## cel4145

conquerator2 said:


> It also applies to the NFB11.
> So NFB11 will be a bit better overall and significantly better over USB than Compass1. Compass2 is a slight improvement over NFB11.




That makes it harder. I don't really need USB. I recently got an NFB-11. Sounds so great, I was thinking I should watch for a used Audio-GD unit for use with my DX50 for a 2nd headphone station in my living room. Perhaps I should hold out for a used NFB-15. Someone will probably get the upgrade bug to a Compass 2 at some point. 

Thanks for the help


----------



## conquerator2

cel4145 said:


> That makes it harder. I don't really need USB. I recently got an NFB-11. Sounds so great, I was thinking I should watch for a used Audio-GD unit for use with my DX50 for a 2nd headphone station in my living room. Perhaps I should hold out for a used NFB-15. Someone will probably get the upgrade bug to a Compass 2 at some point.
> 
> Thanks for the help


 
 If it makes it anz easier, I think Compass2 as a DAC and amp is an amazing value... I have not heard better from other sub-500USD products... I confess that my gear experience is limited, but I have a pretty good idea of what to expect and C2 is certainly not a disappointment


----------



## cel4145

conquerator2 said:


> If it makes it anz easier, I think Compass2 as a DAC and amp is an amazing value... I have not heard better from other sub-500USD products... I confess that my gear experience is limited, but I have a pretty good idea of what to expect and C2 is certainly not a disappointment




NOOOO it doesn't help! That just makes me want a Compass 2 (LOL)


----------



## conquerator2

cel4145 said:


> NOOOO it doesn't help! That just makes me want a Compass 2 (LOL)


 
 I knew that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still, if you dont need balanced and are looking into the 500USD range of neutral and transparent products, I would stop here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




¨¨
  
 Very good value


----------



## cel4145

conquerator2 said:


> I knew that :veryevil:
> 
> Still, if you dont need balanced and are looking into the 500USD range of neutral and transparent products, I would stop here  ¨¨
> 
> Very good value




The NFB-11 is so good, I have no doubt. Maybe I just need to eat peanut butter and jelly everyday for a few months so I can justify to myself getting it


----------



## conquerator2

cel4145 said:


> The NFB-11 is so good, I have no doubt. Maybe I just need to eat peanut butter and jelly everyday for a few months so I can justify to myself getting it


 
 Oh you already have the NFB11. Dont bother with the Compass2 then, the difference wouldnt be big most likely, just subtle.


----------



## cel4145

conquerator2 said:


> Oh you already have the NFB11. Dont bother with the Compass2 then, the difference wouldnt be big most likely, just subtle.




That's why I think my best bet is to hold out for a used NFB-15 for a 2nd unit. That way I get to experience the Sabre vs. the Wolfson chips without having to change them out, like in the Compass 2. 

Still, someone may get themselves a good deal on an AGD dac/amp off ebay. That Compass is apparently not even broken in yet.


----------



## RedBull

Does anybody have sound comparison of Compass 2 vs Asgard 2 or Lyr 2? Amp section only, forget about the price.
Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Had the Compass 2 and I borrowed the Asgard 2 for a little bit. Definitely prefer the Compass 2. Larger range, more body, and sounded more dynamic to me. I didn't compare directly though. The Asgard 2 is a great amp however, just a bit leaner than I'd like. I think the Compass 2 would've been better to me had i went with the warmer Wolfson dacs. Mine had the Sabre ES9018 which is sharper and more neutral.


----------



## RedBull

Thanks MLE, which headphone do you use with each?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I owned the Compass 2 for awhile... and owned quite a few (as you may know... I go through a LOT of headphones). Can't remember which, but from memory:

HD650
Mad Dogs
LCD2
HE-400
K702 Anniversary
Q701
DT990
Fidelio X1
MA900
KSC75, 35
Yuin G1A
M50LE
CAL!
Nuforce HP800


And various others. I honestly can't remember all that I have at various times of different amps/dacs.


----------



## RedBull

I see. In terms of detail and smoothness, Compass 2 is still better than A2?


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

I recently came into some extra money and was able to afford to order a pair of Sennheiser HD800 . I'll eventually want to upgrade from my Audioquest Dragonfly and JDS Labs O2 for those, so I'm thinking about purchasing a Compass 2.

Which DAC implementation would perform best in the Compass 2 for the frequency response of the HD800, the Sabre 9018 with TXCO upgrade or the dual WM8741 with USB upgrade? From what I've read the Wolfson will add a bit of bass response and smoothness, which should correct some of the HD800's sterile response. But, the Sabre will have more detail and likely image better. I know the difference will barely be noticeable, but I still need to decide .

I'd appreciate if someone could help me decide. Thanks.


----------



## conquerator2

toddthemetalgod said:


> I recently came into some extra money and was able to afford to order a pair of Sennheiser HD800 . I'll eventually want to upgrade from my Audioquest Dragonfly and JDS Labs O2 for those, so I'm thinking about purchasing a Compass 2.
> 
> Which DAC implementation would perform best in the Compass 2 for the frequency response of the HD800, the Sabre 9018 with TXCO upgrade or the dual WM8741 with USB upgrade? From what I've read the Wolfson will add a bit of bass response and smoothness, which should correct some of the HD800's sterile response. But, the Sabre will have more detail and likely image better. I know the difference will barely be noticeable, but I still need to decide .
> 
> I'd appreciate if someone could help me decide. Thanks.




I'd say the Wolfson if you want a smooth and pleasing experience. 
The Sabre is the more detailed chip (hyperdetailed) but the treble would most likely be too much for the HD800.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

conquerator2 said:


> I'd say the Wolfson if you want a smooth and pleasing experience.
> The Sabre is the more detailed chip (hyperdetailed) but the treble would most likely be too much for the HD800.


Since the HD800 is already so detailed on it's own, I think the Wolfson option would be better because I don't want the HD800 to sound too lifeless. Musical enjoyment is more important than sound quality to me. Thanks for the help .


----------



## conquerator2

toddthemetalgod said:


> Since the HD800 is already so detailed on it's own, I think the Wolfson option would be better because I don't want the HD800 to sound too lifeless. Musical enjoyment is more important than sound quality to me. Thanks for the help .




No problem 
You can always buy the Sabre separately or with it. Swapping the boards is easy, just unscrew a few screws and then it's push pull 
As far as the cheapest PCM5102, that one is by my understanding the most dynamic and fun but you'd be sacrificing a noticeable amount of detail and imaging/staging with that one... But if you're into that, you could give it a try


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dammit Conquer, you make me wanna rebuy a Compass 2... :'(


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Dammit Conquer, you make me wanna rebuy a Compass 2... :'(




Man, once you're back on track you will 
On the contrary, I just sold mine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What? Why?


----------



## conquerator2

It was just too neutral for me...
At first, I bought the SA31SE which was noticeably smoother and a bit warmer and the Compass2 staid as an awesome DAC... But then I got a good deal on a TOTL Audio-gd DAC and that was that ;/
For the money though, C2 is very hard to beat.


----------



## Clemmaster

Haha Luke, you'll change your tune once you get the NFB-7


----------



## conquerator2

clemmaster said:


> Haha Luke, you'll change your tune once you get the NFB-7




I'll come back at you with pitchforks and torches if you're wrong


----------



## Clemmaster

I got to listen to ohhgourami's NFB-7 a the L.A meet this weekend: this is good stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I got to listen to a X-Sabre + Bakoon HPA-01 setup: it was clearly inferior and I would blame the DAC more than the amp if I had to guess.
  
 Was running from the built-in USB input with a Schiit Wyrd in the way.


----------



## auvgeek

Quote:


cel4145 said:


> Are any of you guys former Compass 1 owners? There's a used one on Ebay, and I'm just trying to figure out how it might compare (in general) to newer Audio-GD offerings like the NFB-15.
> 
> Thanks


 


conquerator2 said:


> I'd expect a slight improvement overall and a significant improvement when using USB input.


 
  
 Well, shoot. I was worried something like this would happen. I just bought an OG Compass (after missing a D100 on eBay) thinking it was a great unit for the price, and I was WAY too excited for it to arrive tonight. I was planning to use the USB input with a 2012 Macbook Pro retina as the source and DT88 cans, but it sounds like that will limit the unit's full potential. I'm a little new to this stuff, so maybe this isn't the right place to ask, but is there another way to drive a DAC from a laptop? Would I have better luck with some sort of adapter from the USB or headphone jack to optical or coax?
  
 TIA.
  
 Edit: It sounds like the 2012 MBPr's headphone jack is also an mini-optical port. So I should be able to use a cable like this, right? http://www.amazon.com/C2G-27016-Velocity-Toslink---Optical/dp/B0002JFN1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=undefined&sr=8-1&keywords=mini-optical+to+optical+cable


----------



## Mad Max

auvgeek said:


> Quote:
> 
> Well, shoot. I was worried something like this would happen. I just bought an OG Compass (after missing a D100 on eBay) thinking it was a great unit for the price, and I was WAY too excited for it to arrive tonight. I was planning to use the USB input with a 2012 Macbook Pro retina as the source and DT88 cans, but it sounds like that will limit the unit's full potential. I'm a little new to this stuff, so maybe this isn't the right place to ask, but is there another way to drive a DAC from a laptop? Would I have better luck with some sort of adapter from the USB or headphone jack to optical or coax?
> 
> TIA.


 
  
 Get an XMOS-based USB-to-S/PDIF converter, then hook up the converter to the Compass with a male-male RCA coupler et voila.  I use an iBasso D7 with mine.
 Kingwa could also walk you through a Tenor USB board installation (same as his recent products, he sells the upgrade kit on the site), although that's not a beginner's DIY job.


----------



## auvgeek

^^Thanks for the response! It appears I edited my response right as you were posting: as I understand it, apple's laptop headphone jack is also a mini-optical port. I'll look into said converter, but it seems like a straight cable like I mentioned might be cheaper without any loss in quality? I'm always wary of adding more converters to the mix; quality converters tend to get expensive...


----------



## Mad Max

auvgeek said:


> ^^Thanks for the response! It appears I edited my response right as you were posting: as I understand it, apple's laptop headphone jack is also a mini-optical port. I'll look into said converter, but it seems like a straight cable like I mentioned might be cheaper without any loss in quality? I'm always wary of adding more converters to the mix; quality converters tend to get expensive...


 
  
 USB and optical are practically the same, ultra-high jitter.  This is taking into account that the USB receiver is PCM270x, the Compass uses PCM2707.  The solution I mentioned takes advantage of DIR9001's ultra-low jitter through coaxial.  XMOS is also low jitter, unrivaled for USB.
 No need to rush, though.  You'll be fine with USB or optical, then an upgrade converter will breathe new life into your unit.


----------



## auvgeek

Okay, learning more and more here. Thanks for edjumicating me. Little confused, though: isn't the Compass supposed to be a high-end DAC with a decent amp? What's the point of adding a cheaper DAC like an iBasso in front of the Compass? I mean, you're still going over USB at some point. If I were to do that, would I have better luck pairing something like the iBasso with a dedicated amp like the Bottlehead Crack?
  
 I'll probably just order the Tenor USB upgrade at some point (provided shipping is reasonable).


----------



## FangJoker

What are the differences between this and the NFB-11 and do people have less usb issues with it?


----------



## Mad Max

auvgeek said:


> Okay, learning more and more here. Thanks for edjumicating me. Little confused, though: isn't the Compass supposed to be a high-end DAC with a decent amp? What's the point of adding a cheaper DAC like an iBasso in front of the Compass? I mean, you're still going over USB at some point. If I were to do that, would I have better luck pairing something like the iBasso with a dedicated amp like the Bottlehead Crack?
> 
> I'll probably just order the Tenor USB upgrade at some point (provided shipping is reasonable).


 
  
 I don't use the D7's DAC, just its SPDIF output.  It is a USB-to-SPDIF converter and can double as a simple USB DAC with headphone amplifier.
 Compass, even the Compass 2, isn't truly high-end, but it is good enough to show you what you've been missing out on versus soundcards and portable media players.
 I bypass the Compass' amp with a KICAS headamp (discontinued).
  
 On an unrelated note, I don't want vacuum tubes in my equipment again.  Cute gimmick, but not my cup of tea, unless we're talking about a hardware VA synth - tube distortion is best done by a real tube.


----------



## jodgey4

Kingwa's USB implementation since he started to do 32/384 is pretty killer, I wouldn't call it 'limited' by most means. On a related note, http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DI2014/DI2014EN.htm just appeared on the products page (perhaps I'm late to the game on this)... but I don't think you'd want to or need to spend that much.


----------



## auvgeek

Yeah, but that's more than I paid for the DAC itself! I'll probably upgrade to one of his or Yulong's higher-end DACs (with USB anti-jitter) when I finish grad school in 3-4 years.
  
 The Compass sounds noticeably better (warmer) with a mini-optical to optical connection than with the USB. Pairs very nicely with the DT880, which sounded a little too bright/treble-heavy with the USB. Total system cost (excluding the laptop) was $380. Not sure I could have done much better for the money.


----------



## SSandDigital

Has anyone heard the Compass with dual PCM1502?


----------



## richbass

The WM8741 and ES9018 add on options have disappeared from the compass2 page.  If we buy Wolfson based then there is no custom option for Sabre add on card and if we buy Sabre based then there is no custom option for Wolfson add on card.
 Has anyone else noticed ?


----------



## SaLX

Maybe there are supply issues atm? I would hope they're not being phased out richbass - you could always drop them an email as they will respond without a doubt.


----------



## richbass

salx said:


> Maybe there are supply issues atm? I would hope they're not being phased out richbass - you could always drop them an email as they will respond without a doubt.


 

 i dropped an e-mail to audio-gd@126.com
 but it seems that they don't understand English well


----------



## Falconetti

Planning to buy T70 or T90 headphones paired with the Compass 2.
  
 Go with the *ES9018 *version and try *WM8741 *later, or vice versa ?


----------



## conquerator2

falconetti said:


> Planning to buy T70 or T90 headphones paired with the Compass 2.
> 
> Go with the *ES9018* version and try *WM8741* later, or vice versa ?



If they are a warmer sounding headphone, then the ESS chip. If they are bright then the WM.
If they are neutral, then the ESS will make them slightly brighter while the WM chip will make them slightly warmer.


----------



## Falconetti

conquerator2 said:


> If they are a warmer sounding headphone, then the ESS chip. If they are bright then the WM.
> If they are neutral, then the ESS will make them slightly brighter while the WM chip will make them slightly warmer.


 
  
  
 Anyone know the cost for the DA modules if you buy them separately? I'm mainly interested in the cost for the ESS and WM modules.


----------



## conquerator2

falconetti said:


> Anyone know the cost for the DA modules if you buy them separately? I'm mainly interested in the cost for the ESS and WM modules.


 
 http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass2EN.htm
  
 I believe they're all 25$ + shipping.


----------



## Falconetti

conquerator2 said:


> http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass%202/Compass2EN.htm
> 
> I believe they're all 25$ + shipping.


 
  
 So what is the point of buying the Compass 9018 for *USD499*, when you can buy the Compass 384 for *USD399* and then add both the ESS and WM for 25USD/each for a grand total of *449 USD*, and have all swapable DA modules?


----------



## conquerator2

falconetti said:


> So what is the point of buying the Compass 9018 for *USD499*, when you can buy the Compass 384 for *USD399* and then add both the ESS and WM for 25USD/each for a grand total of *449 USD*, and have all swapable DA modules?


 
 I believe the cheapest $399 PCM5102 does not allow for swapping, or at least it didn't initially. The 449$ WM4841 doesn't seem to be available anymore, so the $499 ES9018 is the one that certainly allows it... Not sure about the PCM one but I really do believe that there's a slightly different design and thereby does not allow DAC swapping... But I may be wrong.


----------



## Falconetti

conquerator2 said:


> I believe the cheapest $399 PCM5102 does not allow for swapping, or at least it didn't initially. The 449$ WM4841 doesn't seem to be available anymore, so the $499 ES9018 is the one that certainly allows it... Not sure about the PCM one but I really do believe that there's a slightly different design and thereby does not allow DAC swapping... But I may be wrong.


 

 Ok thank you for your input!


----------



## conquerator2

falconetti said:


> Ok thank you for your input!


 
 Sure, no problem!
 Best to directly ask Kingwa about it.
 He's very friendly and responds fast, even if his English is a bit basic. The important always gets through


----------



## PurpleAngel

falconetti said:


> Planning to buy T70 or T90 headphones paired with the Compass 2.
> 
> Go with the *ES9018 *version and try *WM8741 *later, or vice versa ?


 
  
 I've all ways understood the dual WM8741s DAC to be a little more musical and the Sabre DAC a little more detailed.
 But I've only listened to the dual WM8741 (in my NFB-15.32).


----------



## Falconetti

purpleangel said:


> I've all ways understood the dual WM8741s DAC to be a little more musical and the Sabre DAC a little more detailed.
> But I've only listened to the dual WM8741 (in my NFB-15.32).


 
  
 Yup, that what I've been told. But I think the advice *cel4145* gave pretty much hit the nail on the head for me.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/737734/soundcard-dac-headphones-for-pc-gaming-and-movies/90#post_10972594


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

You can swap the dac in the 384, it was marketed that way


----------



## Falconetti

kamijoismyhero said:


> You can swap the dac in the 384, it was marketed that way


 

 So are there any other differences between the two except for the DA modules?


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Maybe some slight differences in sound, I concluded there wasn't much when I asked the same question myself before choosing the 384


----------



## Falconetti

kamijoismyhero said:


> Maybe some slight differences in sound, I concluded there wasn't much when I asked the same question myself before choosing the 384


 
  
 Then it would seem to be pretty pointless to pay 499 USD for the 9018 and only get the ESS module, when you could get the 384 including all modules for 449 USD, if additional DA modules go for 25 USD that is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would err on the side of caution and choose the warmer flavors, since I felt the Sabre to be a bit lean and analytical. I prefer musical and thicker. Too bad about wolfson versions no longer being sold.


----------



## Falconetti

mad lust envy said:


> I would err on the side of caution and choose the warmer flavors, since I felt the Sabre to be a bit lean and analytical. I prefer musical and thicker. Too bad about wolfson versions no longer being sold.


 
  
 Im kinda aiming for the NFB-11 right now, you think I would be better of going for NFB-15 paired with the T70 headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Beyers tend to be bright, so yes. The warmer NFB15 should be a better match, IMHO.


----------



## Falconetti

mad lust envy said:


> Beyers tend to be bright, so yes. The warmer NFB15 should be a better match, IMHO.


 
  
 But isn't it better to have an amp that is more accurate and then try to find a headphone that matches it? The NFB-11 is supposed to be more detailed and accurate then the NFB-15, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had a Compass 2 with sabre es9018 dac. Yes, it was neutral, but it lacked musicality. I still preferred my much older NFB5. To me, I would prefer things stay on the warm side rather than dealing with dry, analytical sound. So even if a headphone is warm, adding warmth is fine for me. But when you have a dry headphone with something as dry and analytical as the Sabre equipped Compass 2, it feels lacking for my tastes. 

I spent $600+ for my Compass 2 with all the bells and whistles, and I was still missing the slight warmth of the NFB5.


----------



## Falconetti

mad lust envy said:


> I had a Compass 2 with sabre es9018 dac. Yes, it was neutral, but it lacked musicality. I still preferred my much older NFB5. To me, I would prefer things stay on the warm side rather than dealing with dry, analytical sound. So even if a headphone is warm, adding warmth is fine for me. But when you have a dry headphone with something as dry and analytical as the Sabre equipped Compass 2, it feels lacking for my tastes.
> 
> I spent $600+ for my Compass 2 with all the bells and whistles, and I was still missing the slight warmth of the NFB5.


 
  
 Maybe I should get a STXII instead and call it a day?


----------



## jodgey4

I like the Sabre sound, it adds nothing nor takes away anything from the music, you hear it as the producer intended. The STX might be a good value and give you more time to decide what you want.


----------



## Falconetti

jodgey4 said:


> I like the Sabre sound, it adds nothing nor takes away anything from the music, you hear it as the producer intended. The STX might be a good value and give you more time to decide what you want.


 
  
 Have you tried it with headphones similar to the Beyers that are more bright ?


----------



## richbass

STX has BB dac. its very bassy and musical.


----------



## jodgey4

My AKG Q701's have incredible detail and neutrality with the Sabre sound. You could go for the NFB-15 which is the same as the NFB-11 but with a more musical DAC chip (dual WM8741). It's also quite a bit cheaper. That might be a really safe option.


----------



## Falconetti

richbass said:


> STX has BB dac. its very bassy and musical.


 
  
  


jodgey4 said:


> My AKG Q701's have incredible detail and neutrality with the Sabre sound. You could go for the NFB-15 which is the same as the NFB-11 but with a more musical DAC chip (dual WM8741). It's also quite a bit cheaper. That might be a really safe option.


 
  
 It's either the NFB-11 or a STXII for me, just have to make up my mind if I gonna gamble on ordering a NFB-11 and pair it with the T70's. I actually like it to be very high detail and neutrality, but im afraid it's gonna be so bright that it's gonna sound harsh/sharp together with the T70's. I mostly gonna play games and watch movies/series with it, but also some music like classical, 80's pop/rock, ambient and some modern Pop/R&B.


----------



## jodgey4

The NFB-11 won't make anything brighter than it is naturally. It is not a thin sounding DAC/amp. It's just that relative to the warmer NFB-15, one might possibly call it 'bright', when in reality it's not.


----------



## Clemmaster

If anything, all audio-gd gears learn towards warmth. The Sabre DACs are the least warm, but still ever so slightly warm.


----------



## Falconetti

jodgey4 said:


> The NFB-11 won't make anything brighter than it is naturally. It is not a thin sounding DAC/amp. It's just that relative to the warmer NFB-15, one might possibly call it 'bright', when in reality it's not.


 
  
  


clemmaster said:


> If anything, all audio-gd gears learn towards warmth. The Sabre DACs are the least warm, but still ever so slightly warm.


 
  
 I have no problems with that as long as the DAC/amp isn't sharp/harsh sounding together with the T70's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Warm sources will pair up better with a lot more than neutral/dry ones which will make brighter headphones, and/or neutral ones sound a little lifeless. I prefer having a small margin of error where everything will still sound a little more musical.

The Compass 2 with ES9018 just made certain headphones sound...lacking.

Had the NFB5, as well as SA-31. Both were more suited for me and made headphones sound better than the Sabre equipped Compass 2, IMHO.


----------



## Falconetti

mad lust envy said:


> Warm sources will pair up better with a lot more than neutral/dry ones which will make brighter headphones, and/or neutral ones sound a little lifeless. I prefer having a small margin of error where everything will still sound a little more musical.
> 
> The Compass 2 with ES9018 just made certain headphones sound...lacking.
> 
> Had the NFB5, as well as SA-31. Both were more suited for me and made headphones sound better than the Sabre equipped Compass 2, IMHO.


 
  
 Well it can't be worse then the combo I have right now. I got a HDA X-plosion soundcard from 2005 paired together right now with cheap Creative Fatal1ty headphones.
  
 Btw, _*genclaymore*_ in the dedicated NFB-11 thread found the 15.32 to be too warm for his T90's. As they are pretty similair to the T70's, might be worth to take a chance on the NFB-11 after all?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/624517/audio-gd-nfb-11-32-nfb-11-2014-delivery-impression-thread/1245#post_10583567


----------



## richbass

Generally, Burr Brown, Wolfson and AKM are musical/warm dacs


----------



## Ron12

For those interested in WM8741 + ES9018 Compass2 within EU: http://www.head-fi.org/t/739434/fs-ft-audio-gd-compass2-2x-tcxo-bnc-wm8741-es9018-dac-boards-eu-only


----------



## SaLX

Looks like the Compass 2 has gone from the line-up: http://www.audio-gd.com/Products-EN.htm. I'll still be using this thing for many years to come so **** it.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello everyone, I'm hoping someone can give me some quick advice about the Audio-gd Compass 2 (amp/DAC).
  
 What I'm looking for in a DAC is a good flat / neutral FR, good soundstage / instrument placement, textured / detailed highs yet not overly harsh.
  
 The DACs I'm considering are the *HRT microStreamer* or *HRT Music Streamer III*, *the Peachtree Audio DAC-iT, or the * *Audio-gd Compass 2.* There are all approx. $200 (give or take), and somebody recommended the Compass 2 as better than the NFB 15 I believe. So would anybody care to elaborate on why the Compass 2 is better, or would recommend another of these DACs, or even another one altogether? Thanks much in advance!


----------



## jodgey4

Better power supply over the 15, IIRC. It's a whole new DAC section, actually, IIRC. Those would all be good, but I think only the Compass 2 if it has the ES9018 chip. The WM8741 might be too warm/musical.


----------



## Luckbad

I wish I knew about this unit when it was available. Anyone want to sell one?


----------



## Mad Max

No worries, you can count on Kingwa to replace it with something newer and better, eventually.


----------



## jodgey4

I'm guessing there'll be something new, considering all of his WM8741 products are on the way out. He needs a cheap dedicated DAC to pair with the NFB-3AMP at ~$250 shipped IMHO. Like a DAC-only NFB-11.


----------



## JoeDoe

Hello gentlemen, 

I've just come into a secondhand compass 2 and I'm unable to get audio from the USB on my 2012 MacBook pro. Anyone else out there able to offer advice?


----------



## jodgey4

Do you know which year your model is? The old drivers should be on the site, once you identify the right ones. Kingwa is pretty helpful with that stuff.


----------



## JoeDoe

jodgey4 said:


> Do you know which year your model is? The old drivers should be on the site, once you identify the right ones. Kingwa is pretty helpful with that stuff.




Mine is a 2012. Problem is installing drivers in the apple ecosystem.


----------



## jodgey4

I thought Apple didn't even need drivers? I should stay out, this isn't my area. Sowwy.


----------



## JoeDoe

jodgey4 said:


> I thought Apple didn't even need drivers? I should stay out, this isn't my area. Sowwy.




Well that's what I thought but so far I can't get any audio through USB. Kingwa suggested installing new firmware but I'm not sure he completely understood my issue.


----------



## jodgey4

Is your laptop recognizing that you even have something plugged in? If you can't get it to recognize the device, flashing firmware could fix that.


----------



## JoeDoe

jodgey4 said:


> Is your laptop recognizing that you even have something plugged in? If you can't get it to recognize the device, flashing firmware could fix that.




It does recognize it. Both in system preferences and in JRMC


----------



## JoeDoe

So here's a weird one. I updated to El Capitan on the MBP just to see if that'd change anything. (Don't worry, I have Mountain Lion on my backup HD).
  
 USB is working fine _except_ that the only way I get audio out of the Compass is if the Line-in button is pressed! Luckily, I'm probably never going to use the 'real' line-in function, but still, this is a little weird.


----------



## Luckbad

joedoe said:


> So here's a weird one. I updated to El Capitan on the MBP just to see if that'd change anything. (Don't worry, I have Mountain Lion on my backup HD).
> 
> USB is working fine _except_ that the only way I get audio out of the Compass is if the Line-in button is pressed! Luckily, I'm probably never going to use the 'real' line-in function, but still, this is a little weird.




The button could be inverse of what you think. My C-2 Class A had a button that was in for off as well. Or it might have been the Ref 5. Either way, some of the older Audio-GD stuff was weird like that.


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## JoeDoe

luckbad said:


> The button could be inverse of what you think. My C-2 Class A had a button that was in for off as well. Or it might have been the Ref 5. Either way, some of the older Audio-GD stuff was weird like that.




I gotcha. That makes me feel better. Thanks for the heads up! 

By the way, back when they were being sold, how much did the other DAC modules cost?


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## Luckbad

joedoe said:


> I gotcha. That makes me feel better. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> By the way, back when they were being sold, how much did the other DAC modules cost?




Around $1000. He stopped making standalone 4x PCM1704UK balanced dacs shortly after the price on the chip went up.


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## JoeDoe

luckbad said:


> Around $1000. He stopped making standalone 4x PCM1704UK balanced dacs shortly after the price on the chip went up.




Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant the swappable DAC boards for the Compass 2.


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## Bananiq

is this dac/amp still comparable to newer ones? nfb-11?


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## greenarrow

I've a first version of this dac/amp. Have been in storage after I've upgraded my system. Recently, just took this out from storage and try this on my Edifier R2000DB speaker. Which connectors should I use to connect it to the speaker?


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## Gun21 (Feb 15, 2020)

This thing has been in a box for 4 years. Hauled it out to try on my new headphones but couldn't find the Compass 2 on the Audio God website, not even on the discontinued page. Kingwa sent me this link so I thought I'd leave it here: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass2

I got the HD 800S and it sounds great, however I'm wondering if I should upgrade seeing as this amp is from 2012. mmmm....


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## Gun21

The link for this unit is up again, as it had been taken down from Audio_gd's site for some reason. http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Compass 2/Compass2EN.htm


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