# Schiit Decrapifier released - USB power isolator



## ckyr

http://schiit.com/products/wyrd-usb-decrapifier


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## HiFiAudio

It cleans a *digital* signal of noise and glitches, oh my they do really try to sell you anything these days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 From one online poster:


> They brought out a device that does nothing else than taking USB input, 'cleaning' it and putting it out again.


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## ckyr

I wonder what difference it might make...


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## HiFiAudio

I laughed at John H. Darko take on this news from this Five new pieces of Schiit drop at T.H.E. Show Newport Beach 2014 article.
  



 arctle
 Next up there’s Wyrd. It looks a lot like the Modi DAC but it’s anything but. Common decency had Schiit revise the working title of De****ifier to Descrewifier. Its purpose? To hoover up host PC noise. USB input –> reclock, rejuice –> USB out. Power comes from a low-noise, external linear brick (not switching). Keeping expectations appropriately low, Stoddard refuses to make wild claims about what the Wyrd will do to your system.
  
_“We’re not going to make any claims about sonics, but it’ll definitely stop USB noise and power problems in their tracks. Some people say Wyrd makes everything sound better. We don’t know how it can possibly do so, so we’re going to stay Swiss on the subject.”_
 A sticker of US$99 means you can easily find out for yourself.


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## Currawong

I talked to Jason about this a bit and the basic story that I recall was that it was an experiment they didn't think would do anything but turned out to have some positive effects on some USB DACs. I don't know exactly what is in it, but it probably does something like reduce RF noise travelling over the USB cable, which reportedly can have a negative effect on DAC electronics.


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## pixelcity

Honestly, the only useful thing this _could _have had was galvanic (including ground) isolation, but it doesn't; it favors usb 2.0 instead.


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## jdpark

It looks like a cool product.  As an owner of and HRT HD, I do notice high frequency energy, which is highly audible an extremely distracting in my Beyer 990s.  I've checked and it's not my Schiit Magni making the noise, even though I know it's not completely black silent, either.  
  
 I've been looking into getting an iUSB power supply for a while, and this is half the price.  Unfortunately I live in Israel, where we have 220v, and this Decrapifier only comes in 125v now.  I suppose I could use it with a step down converter, but by then the price is going to be similar to the iUSB.  
  
 One thing I've found is that if I turn my volume down by 15-20db on Foobar2000 and crank my Magni up to 12-2 o'clock depending on the song, I don't hear any of the high frequency buzz.
  
 Is that a simple low-fi solution?  Does anyone know the science behind why it seems to work?
  
 Thnx,
  
 Joel


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## saxelrod92

This decrapifier isn't as "snake oily" as it seems, as far as I understand its purpose. It's meant for usb powered dacs, where if the power coming out of the usb port isnt perfect, clean, and constant, it can and will cause some serious sound issues, because you would essentially not be getting correct power to make the dac work. And I'm sure on some computers depending on where the port is located or if anything else is on the internal hub other than the dac, then something like this device can come in handy by simply providing a constant power supply through the usb cable for the dac, and keeping the signal alone from the internals of the computer, so its as uninterrupted as possible. If you have a powered dac, that just has a usb input option, like the bifrost for example, then this device is basically useless. unless you have some serious usb port issues/noisey internals in your computer or something. but this yould make a good alternative over a powered usb hub for a usb powered dac.


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## darinf

saxelrod92 said:


> This decrapifier isn't as "snake oily" as it seems, as far as I understand its purpose. It's meant for usb powered dacs, where if the power coming out of the usb port isnt perfect, clean, and constant, it can and will cause some serious sound issues, because you would essentially not be getting correct power to make the dac work. And I'm sure on some computers depending on where the port is located or if anything else is on the internal hub other than the dac, then something like this device can come in handy by simply providing a constant power supply through the usb cable for the dac, and keeping the signal alone from the internals of the computer, so its as uninterrupted as possible. If you have a powered dac, that just has a usb input option, like the bifrost for example, then this device is basically useless. unless you have some serious usb port issues/noisey internals in your computer or something. but this yould make a good alternative over a powered usb hub for a usb powered dac.


 
 According to Purin, the Wyrd also reclocks the data, so it's not just power related. It also affects the data. Even with USB DAC's that have separate power supplies, the Wyrd may still affect the sound.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/721201/schiit-hits-the-fan-valhalla-2-lyr-2-announced-wyrd-and-mani-previewed/150#post_10678739
  
 I found that the sound is affected even on a powered DAC like the Hugo.


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## saxelrod92

Yea it could help out powered dacs, especially if you dont have the best usb ports ever or something. or just to satisfy that ocd to make sure theres definitely nothing in the usb signal path that is messing with the sound other than the dac, amp, and headphones lol. I know this because I just tried my other usb port, and got a super subtle different sound, just a super tiny change in imaging, the other port was super slightly less able to layer sounds right, compared to the usual port I use. Its still very very small differences, but its just like that sensation that something is off, but its too small to exactly pinpoint right away. so I figure if someone gets really annoyed about that, the wyrd will help solve any such difference by acting as a perfect usb port.
  
  
 (if I had a spare 100 bucks to spend on something like this, I would totally get it, but thankfully nothing in my system is really breaking that ocd annoyance barrier that would make me go for this, at least for now lol)


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## mwillits

In my particular situation (YMMV), the Wyrd seems to work as promised. Nothing less, and nothing magical. 

My MacBook Pro Retina Late 2013 has a slight issue in that I can hear the electrical activity of the processor as intermittent static coming through the USB port and into my Schiit stack (Gungnir to Mjolnir and onto my headphones / speakers). By process of elimination, I discovered that if I removed the MBP power supply connection the noise went away slightly, but not completely. And, it wasn't a ground loop issue as I would hear the noise only when clicking on windows and opening applications, basically anything that would require some increased work by the processor (or something related electrically). Otherwise no background hum characteristic of a ground loop. Hooking up my DAC via optical solved the issue but I prefer using USB. 

Thus, the Wyrd seems to accomplish its simple mission of interrupting the transmission of this electrical activity noise. That's all I wanted it to do, so it was $99 well spent. I was also considering the iFi Purifier but decided on the Wyrd simply because it was made by Schiit.

*EDIT 6.6.14* - Correction, I'm still experiencing the same issue. However, having the Wyrd connected doesn't seem to introduce any additional noise. Hopefully I can troubleshoot and report on progress later.


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## ieee754

darinf said:


> According to Purin, the Wyrd also reclocks the data, so it's not just power related. It also affects the data. Even with USB DAC's that have separate power supplies, the Wyrd may still affect the sound.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/721201/schiit-hits-the-fan-valhalla-2-lyr-2-announced-wyrd-and-mani-previewed/150#post_10678739
> 
> I found that the sound is affected even on a powered DAC like the Hugo.


 
 Aren't data packets received from USB buffered in the DAC anyway? So reclocking the data shouldn't make any difference.
  
 EDIT: I see now that it works this way only in USB asynchronous. Possibly in USB adaptive mode this could make a difference, if there is something wrong with the source.


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## superjawes

darinf said:


> According to Purin, the Wyrd also reclocks the data, so it's not just power related. It also affects the data. Even with USB DAC's that have separate power supplies, the Wyrd may still affect the sound.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/721201/schiit-hits-the-fan-valhalla-2-lyr-2-announced-wyrd-and-mani-previewed/150#post_10678739
> 
> I found that the sound is affected even on a powered DAC like the Hugo.


Noise in the power of your USB port can show up as noise on your signal. You want that signal to be as clean as possible because you're going to turn it into something audible (and I'd bet that signal noise on the digital side would still show up in the analog parts of the DAC). My understanding is that Wyrd would basically grab the 1's and 0's and retransmit them with cleaner power (less noise).

So yeah, Wyrd could still help out powered USB DACs if it provides a cleaner signal than the original USB port. Putting it in a separate chassis further isolates noise from the analog parts, too.


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## mcandmar

Having built and used various USB isolators i am glad to see somebody like Schiit releasing a product of this nature.  I would love to see a pic of the internals if anybody can dig one up?


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## ProtegeManiac

It's an expensive powered USB "hub" (since it only has one input and output), _but_ it has its market beyond those who squeeze every last (perceived) improvement by tossing money at it. Those following the iOS and Android DAC threads would be familiar with how many inexpensive hubs didn't work with DACs, and it's happened before that the specific models known to work went out of production (or for those who have to buy them online might find the return process prohibitive depending on their location), or didn't work with some devices on either end. For those who want to skip the guesswork in the possibility of going through several powered hubs, paying $99 in one go would seem like a good option. If anything, those who have a huge music collection on a portable HDD will not be able to use it as with the other hubs, but some would likely have an NAS or wireless HDD instead as even Neutron Media Player and MediaMonkey for Android have UPnP now (and presumably, so would the upcoming Foobar player).


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## AUserName501

I think a lot of you are missing the point. It's not about whether it is hypothetically better but whether you would even be able to tell the difference. If you don't hear noise with your DAC already then it is pointless to get this.


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## mwillits

ausername501 said:


> I think a lot of you are missing the point. It's not about whether it is hypothetically better but whether you would even be able to tell the difference. If you don't hear noise with your DAC already then it is pointless to get this.


 
 +1


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## bonesnv

I hear noise with my DAC due to my PC's poor USB implementation and an external USB hub didn't solve it entirely, although did help partially.  
 Ordered mine yesterday, so will see if it resolves the issues when it arrives early next week.  This seemed a much more cost effective solution than the iFi one for like $300.


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## ProtegeManiac

ausername501 said:


> I think a lot of you are missing the point. It's not about whether it is hypothetically better but whether you would even be able to tell the difference. If you don't hear noise with your DAC already then it is pointless to get this.


 
  
 Yep, that and if you want to use a tablet or phone and don't want to fuss around with USB hubs whose wirings go every which way that some don't work (on the upside, some have used Androids that can access a 2.5 ext HDD along with a DAC on the same hub). I'm just waiting for confirmation on the Android and iOS DAC threads before I pull the trigger on this and a Modi USB.


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## VeerK

This sort of reminds what Gigabyte is doing with their motherboards, having a dedicated USB port for DACs in an effort to transmit clean sound.


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## ProtegeManiac

veerk said:


> This sort of reminds what Gigabyte is doing with their motherboards, having a dedicated USB port for DACs in an effort to transmit clean sound.


 
  
 MSI also has USB ports designed to deliver consistent, clean 5v - the difference between them is that Gigabyte has it in the outline of the blurb, but MSI has it in the lower section with the longer explanation and accompanying graphic.
  
 The really neat feature on Gigabyte boards is the swappable headpone driver opamps. When it comes time to replace my current gaming PC I'll use that sort of motherboard and Beyer DT770s (for the isolation and low price, not so much the soundstage) so I wouldn't need to use my Xonar U7 out of a USB port with an IEM.


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## bonesnv

Got mine today and, well, it appears to do exactly what it is supposed to do, like most of Schiit's products.  
  
 The background noise on my USB connection caused by the very poor USB implementation on my motherboard has been "de-crapified".  I no longer have the scratchy/popping sounds coming through the silence.  
  
 Was it worth $100, don't know if it will be for everyone but for me it solved the issue the $20 Belkin hub didn't fix entirely (although that hub helped a good amount) and isn't $200+ like other brands of these devices.  If you have USB issues and $100, give it a go, may be worth it.
  
 EDIT:  For info purposes, I use Schiit's PYST cables, so basic Straight Wire.


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## sludgeogre

With the Modi and Magni stack, will the Wyrd fix issues with noise from phones? Every time my phone is close and I get a text or any kind of transmission, I can hear some buzzing. I have to take it out of my pocket and put it on the other side of the desk and when I'm going in and out of my office a lot its a huge pain in the ass.


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## blades

Next will be a deSchiitifier.


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## bonesnv

sludgeogre said:


> With the Modi and Magni stack, will the Wyrd fix issues with noise from phones? Every time my phone is close and I get a text or any kind of transmission, I can hear some buzzing. I have to take it out of my pocket and put it on the other side of the desk and when I'm going in and out of my office a lot its a huge pain in the ass.


 
  
  
 Believe that is more of an issue with the phone.  Not all phones produce this kind of electronic noise/interference, it will most frequently occur when you are utilizing the data services.  My iPhone 4 does this bad, however, my S4 doesn't do it at all around any speakers, headphones, alarm clocks, etc.


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## sludgeogre

bonesnv said:


> Believe that is more of an issue with the phone.  Not all phones produce this kind of electronic noise/interference, it will most frequently occur when you are utilizing the data services.  My iPhone 4 does this bad, however, my S4 doesn't do it at all around any speakers, headphones, alarm clocks, etc.


 
  
 Interesting. I know that some speakers are way more susceptible to it (I've definitely had a lot of crappy speakers that would go berserk around any phone), but my headphones don't seem to pick it up through other sources, just Modi/Magni.


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## ProtegeManiac

sludgeogre said:


> Interesting. I know that some speakers are way more susceptible to it (I've definitely had a lot of crappy speakers that would go berserk around any phone), but my headphones don't seem to pick it up through other sources, just Modi/Magni.


 
  
 It depends on the shielding and how sensitive the components are - that's why all speaker series that have a center channel at least are very likely shielded, since there's reasonable expectation that they will be used near a display that might introduce that kind of noise (IIRC it has something to do with the magnet, so in some cases it's not actually the cabinet that's shielded but the rear end of the woofers and/or tweeters). There's a chance that some expensive speakers out there might still go berserk around some other electronic device, for example if they were built without consideration to their use next to a TV. In yourt case it may be the Magni, because the reason why Schiit hasn't come up with a DAC-HPamp in one box is because the amp components they use are very, very sensitive to noise.
  
 I wouldn't bet on the Decrapifier to take that noise out though - it's designed to filter out noise going through the USB signal, not to filter out airborne interference, which again is likely going in through the Magni.


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## sludgeogre

protegemaniac said:


> It depends on the shielding and how sensitive the components are - that's why all speaker series that have a center channel at least are very likely shielded, since there's reasonable expectation that they will be used near a display that might introduce that kind of noise (IIRC it has something to do with the magnet, so in some cases it's not actually the cabinet that's shielded but the rear end of the woofers and/or tweeters). There's a chance that some expensive speakers out there might still go berserk around some other electronic device, for example if they were built without consideration to their use next to a TV. In yourt case it may be the Magni, because the reason why Schiit hasn't come up with a DAC-HPamp in one box is because the amp components they use are very, very sensitive to noise.
> 
> I wouldn't bet on the Decrapifier to take that noise out though - it's designed to filter out noise going through the USB signal, not to filter out airborne interference, which again is likely going in through the Magni.


 
 Makes total sense. Darn. I was hoping it would alleviate some of those issues, but, the place where I work has its own power plant that puts out pretty crappy power. It even screws with my laptop dock and output to my monitor sometimes, so hopefully there will be some kind of sonic improvement. My Bifrost and the computer that feeds it are both on a power conditioner that seems to do an awesome job of giving ultra clean power to everything.


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## goodvibes

saxelrod92 said:


> This decrapifier isn't as "snake oily" as it seems, as far as I understand its purpose. It's meant for usb powered dacs, where if the power coming out of the usb port isnt perfect, clean, and constant, it can and will cause some serious sound issues, because you would essentially not be getting correct power to make the dac work. And I'm sure on some computers depending on where the port is located or if anything else is on the internal hub other than the dac, then something like this device can come in handy by simply providing a constant power supply through the usb cable for the dac, and keeping the signal alone from the internals of the computer, so its as uninterrupted as possible. If you have a powered dac, that just has a usb input option, like the bifrost for example, then this device is basically useless. unless you have some serious usb port issues/noisey internals in your computer or something. but this yould make a good alternative over a powered usb hub for a usb powered dac.


 

 This. If it's a usb powered DAC, using a linear supply is a good thing in my book. Of course, I'm still not a fan of usb digital.
 Ducks.


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## tuamtuem

I'm getting confused about this Schiit. I'm planning of upgrading to Bifrost and I think Wyrd probably helps improve the USB signal from my MacBook Air. It seems like I have two options now.
  
 1. Getting a better USB cable. I heard from my friend that the good USB cable can decrease the error of data transferring.
 2. Getting Wyrd Schiit.
  
 Which one is the best option for better accuracy of data transfer?


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## bonesnv

tuamtuem said:


> I'm getting confused about this Schiit. I'm planning of upgrading to Bifrost and I think Wyrd probably helps improve the USB signal from my MacBook Air. It seems like I have two options now.
> 
> 1. Getting a better USB cable. I heard from my friend that the good USB cable can decrease the error of data transferring.
> 2. Getting Wyrd Schiit.
> ...


 
  
 You only need it if you are experiencing issues with your USB connection.  Would wait and see if you experience problems before ordering one.
  
 I plead the 5th on any cable questions, monsters come out.


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## ogodei

sludgeogre said:


> *With the Modi and Magni stack, will the Wyrd fix issues with noise from phones? *Every time my phone is close and I get a text or any kind of transmission, I can hear some buzzing. I have to take it out of my pocket and put it on the other side of the desk and when I'm going in and out of my office a lot its a huge pain in the ass.


 
  
 Try a USB cable with ferrite chokes, they work well to reject that type of interference.  I've also used them to get rid of "pops" I was getting in DACs, presumably from having a poorly shielded USB cable running through a rats nest of power cords.
  


protegemaniac said:


> I wouldn't bet on the Decrapifier to take that noise out though - it's designed to filter out noise going through the USB signal, not to filter out airborne interference, which again is likely going in through the Magni.


 
  
 Have a decrapifier on the way and should be able to do a practical test of this soon, but I agree in theory.  You presumably have the same cable length between the Schiit DC and the DAC that you had before between the PC and the DAC, so it could pick up the same interference as before.


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## sludgeogre

ogodei said:


> Try a USB cable with ferrite chokes, they work well to reject that type of interference.  I've also used them to get rid of "pops" I was getting in DACs, presumably from having a poorly shielded USB cable running through a rats nest of power cords.


 
 I had a cord with a big ferrite block on it and I still got the noise. My computer is also on a really bad power grid that has a lot of voltage swings, plus the laptop dock is a piece of crap.
  
 So, I put the Wyrd to the test and everything sounded much better. I kept my phone next to the stack and text messages did not cause noise anymore. It seemed like there was a little noise at one point from my phone but I'm not sure. I'll keep testing it next week and we'll see what happens.


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## ogodei

Excellent.  Cant wait to try this out and get into huge arguments with people as to whether it actually does something.
  
 That entertainment should be worth $99 by itself.


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## ProtegeManiac

tuamtuem said:


> I'm getting confused about this Schiit. I'm planning of upgrading to Bifrost and I think Wyrd probably helps improve the USB signal from my MacBook Air. It seems like I have two options now.
> 
> 1. Getting a better USB cable. I heard from my friend that the good USB cable can decrease the error of data transferring.
> 2. Getting Wyrd Schiit.
> ...


 
  
 If you can't hear any obvious issues any improvement you might hear is just placebo. Note that when it comes to "better" cables you might end up with more problems. I remember a thread post before where an "audiophile grade" USB cable whose main selling point was not having any conductors on the power leads actually introduced some noise as the manufacturer whoever it was just twisted up a bunch of conductors and put them in some jacket, neither the geometry nor the jacket material being compliant with USB standard. If you are getting noise off the computer you can just hack up a cable by cutting up its power connectors, but then that depends on whether your DAC needs power through USB or not.
  
 IIRC I think the person who posted that eventually removed the noise by getting a quality cable with ferrite on either end. Just go to a computer store and get the one that looks like the build quality is decent enough to last (and that the manufacturer will reliably comply with USB specs). No need for USB cables that cost as much or more than a decent headphone.


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## sludgeogre

Still getting some cellphone noise with the Wyrd, so people were correct, it doesn't fix that. It still makes the Modi sound better, though. It fixed the problems I was having with my laptop dock.


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## darinf

Tried Wyrd with the AK120 in USB DAC mode. Maybe my Lenovo Yoga 13 laptop has bad USB ports or maybe it's just a placebo effect, but the Wyrd definitely changes the sound for the better and it's not subtle. Call me crazy, it's OK.


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## RadioWonder737

Sounds like an interesting product...


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## aamer23

I have tried audiophile grade USB cable from Audiomica and it did not work very well with my Bifrost (not very musical) but the PYST USB does and thats only 20 USD and the Audiomica was 180 USD lucky for me the Audiomica USB cable was a loaner and I was able to return it for a refund. However, that does not mean that you cannot get a great result out of better cables it just means in my system I did not for a high end USB cable. But I do have Audiomica speaker cables and have ordered analog interconnects from Audiomica too as they work very well in my system.


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## ogodei

Well there's nothing surprising in here. It appears to be exactly as Schiit indicates:  USB repeater chip (SMSC USB2412) with internal crystal oscillator for timing (24MHz, +- 350ppm), and a voltage regulator (UA723C, aka LM723) with a low tested output noise voltage (2.5uV).  See the circled items in the image above.
  
 So...  It repeats the signal and gives you clean power.
  
 Audio testing to follow at some point.
  
 edit: gammar


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## MustelaNivalis

Did anyone run this device on 9V DC already (1.41 x 6V AC)? I see a rectifier bridge on the PCB, D3, so it should be okay. I live in The Netherlands, we have 230 V AC coming from the power outlets so I cannot use the Wall-Wart from Schiit. My AudioQuest DragonFly will benefit from Wyrds cleaner power I think.


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## firev1

Timing is externally provided, see U8. Them lytics look like the good kind. I would love to see the sort of improvements it makes on FFT, I have seen some good with USB isolators, I expect this to be somewhat similar or with high hopes, better.


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## jexby

I mainly bought Schiit Wyrd to see if it will eliminate a cyclical hum/buzz out of my iMac USB, when iPhone 5S is on same desk. 
 happens at regular intervals through Concero HD into Vali and right channel of my headphones.
 as others of stated, Wyrd doesn't fix this.
  
  
  
 Having spent a few days with the Wyrd, here are quick findings you can accept or dismiss at will:
  
 source:
 macbook pro 13” retina—>24/96 and DSD files—>Aurdirvana+—> usb chain —>  GeekOut450 0.47ohm jack to Heir Audio 4.AiS
  
  
 Config #1:
 GO450 directly in macbook USB port
 my base config.  on stage presence of music, very balanced and detailed.  bass/mid/trebles all clear, precise.
 black background (oh teeny tiniest amount of air) with no music playing.  even with Audirvana volume at maxed at 0dB.
 listening level of -38db is comfortable for testing/detailed listening.
 cymbals have a shimmer and sparkle to them, bass guitar lines extend nice and low.
 drum skins have a (realistic) hollow echo at certain times.
  
 Config #2:
 macbook pro connected to Apple Thunderbird monitor
 GO450 plugged into USB at back of monitor
 changes detected:  nothing obvious.  volume levels stayed the same, bass and treble characteristics unchanged.
 soundstage, black levels unchanged.
  
 Config #4:
 macbook pro USB connected to Wyrd.
 GO450 straight into Wyrd.
 changes detected:
 soundstage, black levels unchanged.
 drums:  that “drum skim hollow” and quiet cymbal taps are still present but oh so very tiny slightly recessed.
  
 Wyrd + GeekOut Summary:
 for this laptop with Audirvana+ and IEMs- Wyrd doesn’t really add or detract to GO450 sound qualities or dynamics.
 appreciable difference or improvement, none I could tell.
  
  
 Config #5:
  macbook pro USB (Virtue Audio USB cable) connected to Wyrd.
 Wyrd to iFi nano iDSD using a Wireworld Starlight 7 0.5m USB cable  (nano iDSD powered up after USB cable/power connected. ie. not on battery power.)
 Heir Audio 4.AiS
 vs.
  Config #6:
  macbook pro USB (Wireworld cable) connected to iFi nano iDSD (nano iDSD powered up after USB cable/power connected. ie. not on battery power.)
 Heir Audio 4.AiS
  
 Findings after much cable back n forth:
  
 Config #6 had a slightly wider and taller sound field.
 guitars that felt "in my ear" on config #5, felt slightly outside my ears a bit in config #6.
 bass drum hits that were wide and deep in config #5, also seemed a bit "taller" in config #6.
 as if the "window frame" of the sound got a bit wider and a taller, without walking closer to the window.
 guitar string decays seemed a bit more real (less fuzzy in the final, quiet trail off) in Config #6.
  
  
 Note:
 turning on nano iDSD BEFORE connecting USB cable in Config #6 (thus running off battery)
 did not slightly widen/heighten the soundstage as in Config #5.
  
 Wyrd + nano iDSD Summary:
  might be keeping the Wyrd in this nano iDSD desk set up, it widens some of the "in the head soundstage" with IEMs and nano iDSD.
 hm, wondering if this is what the micro iDSD will sound like?   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 maybe something to be said for the combo of USB re-clocking AND clean power.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 plus Wyrd can be relocated to other USB DACs should they ever benefit, or for those DACs/Amp without a battery for iPad/iPhone usability at the desk.
  
 Discerning Wyrd differences in these setups was harder, took longer to recognize than comparing between DACs themselves (GO vs. nano iDSD, for example.)
 no surprise there I guess.


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## john57

I thought that config 6 without the Wyrd has the wider and taller sound field. My impression was config 6 seems to be better.


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## ogodei

firev1 said:


> Timing is externally provided, see U8. Them lytics look like the good kind. I would love to see the sort of improvements it makes on FFT, I have seen some good with USB isolators, I expect this to be somewhat similar or with high hopes, better.


 
  
 External to the repeater chip you mean?  That would be to get tighter clock stability than whats available in the repeater?


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## firev1

Yea, master clock is an external crystal oscillator. Lower phase noise I reckon, and of course less drifting since the clock is 20ppm.


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## leeperry

Any chance for a 230V version?


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## jcwc

leeperry said:


> Any chance for a 230V version?


 
  
 It's coming within a few weeks. I'm also waiting for one.


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## jcwc

mwillits said:


> In my particular situation (YMMV), the Wyrd seems to work as promised. Nothing less, and nothing magical.
> 
> My MacBook Pro Retina Late 2013 has a slight issue in that I can hear the electrical activity of the processor as intermittent static coming through the USB port and into my Schiit stack (Gungnir to Mjolnir and onto my headphones / speakers). By process of elimination, I discovered that if I removed the MBP power supply connection the noise went away slightly, but not completely. And, it wasn't a ground loop issue as I would hear the noise only when clicking on windows and opening applications, basically anything that would require some increased work by the processor (or something related electrically). Otherwise no background hum characteristic of a ground loop. Hooking up my DAC via optical solved the issue but I prefer using USB.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did you manage to troubleshoot your issue?
  
 I'm also facing a problem of hearing my HDD activity noise over my active speakers (this is especially apparent when using an external HDD via USB) which is connected to my GO 450 which is connected to my PC. I'm hoping the Wyrd can clean this up.


----------



## jcwc

ogodei said:


> USB repeater chip (SMSC USB2412) with internal crystal oscillator for timing (24MHz, +- 350ppm)


 
  
 I thought the specs say the crystal oscillator is 20ppm??


----------



## ogodei

jcwc said:


> I thought the specs say the crystal oscillator is 20ppm??


 
  
 Yes, I was incorrect as firev1 pointed out.
  
 The USB repeater chip has an _internal_ spec of 350ppm (as far as I can tell), but Schitt is not using the internal oscillator.  Instead it is using an external source (ASV chip) with the tighter clock spec.


----------



## Maelob

I currently use an IFI purifier connected to my Belcanto M-link USB/spidif converter feeding a benchmark dac1. I was considering getting an IFI power. Do you think adding a Wyrd will help get better sound?


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

I'm planning to order an external USB power supply for my V-Link 192 USB - S/PDIF converter and my Audio-GD NFB7 DAC soon. After lots of reading and research, I've finally come up with the final 2 options: the Schiit Lyr and the iFi USB power supply.
  
 Has anyone had a chance to own/compare these two equipments? I've read that the iFi is just a power supply, it doesn't 'change' or 'affect' the data signal transferred in the USB cable, whereas the Schiit Wyrd somewhat re-clock the data signal as well as provide a clean power for USB.
  
 Which one should I go for? And what are the sonic differences ( if have ) between the iFi and Wyrd?
  
 Thanks in advance,
 Kratos.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Kratos,

I can not speak to the iFi Unit, but I own the Wyrd and have found it greatly reduces background noise/"hash" from the poorly executed USB ports. It provided an inky, black, very quiet background from which the music emerges, providing the impression of greater dynamics, tonality, imaging and sound stage. I am using the following configuration: Computer>Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

wildcatsare1 said:


> Kratos,
> 
> I can not speak to the iFi Unit, but I own the Wyrd and have found it greatly reduces background noise/"hash" from the poorly executed USB ports. It provided an inky, black, very quiet background from which the music emerges, providing the impression of greater dynamics, tonality, imaging and sound stage. I am using the following configuration: Computer>Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2.


 

 Wow! Thank you very much!
  
 I guess I know what I'm gonna do


----------



## leeperry

jcwc said:


> It's coming within a few weeks. I'm also waiting for one.


 
 Can't wait


----------



## kodger

With the gungnir do I need the decrapifier?

Anybody tried this combination?

Many thanks


----------



## castleofargh

does it come with shorter usb cables or do we actually double the length of something that should never get extended(said the noobs who determined what USB specs should be, so they might know something)?
  
 what about "event" choice in wasapi? wouldn't that be much better than to add another reclock in the middle for no reason and pray that it does good? if you have an asynchro dac what is the point?
  
 now noise: if there is noise from your dac, get a good one instead? the only time I got computer noise passing a dac it was a 20$ hifimediy without an amp. be it my odac/o2 or my leckerton uha760 they have a perfectly clean background(and I mean perfectly clean, a dx50 hisses, a f886 does a "tac" noise every 2 seconds... I'm picky on that subject) and that whatever the crap I plug them into. laptop/tablet/phone.


----------



## ogodei

kodger said:


> With the gungnir do I need the decrapifier?
> 
> Anybody tried this combination?
> 
> Many thanks


 
  
 Purrin has stated several places that it greatly enhanced his experience with the gungnir.
  
 Schiit Audio has stated that they make no claim to the decrapifier making any difference.
  
 In my testing so far I have heard no discernible difference, testing continues with multiple PCs.
  
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
Speak of the devil


----------



## kodger

Many thanks


----------



## MustelaNivalis

Running the Wyrd now on 9 VDC for some time (230 VAC -> 9 VDC adapter) and no issues encountered. I use the Wyrd mainly to power my DragonFly so it becomes independent from the computer's noisy power-supply. The DragonFly only consumes little power however...


----------



## leeperry

BTW, can you break the +5V pin of the USB cable going between the PC and the decrapifier? An easy test would be to mask the +5V pin at the back of the schitt with electrician tape, less inteferences in the cable never hurt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I plan on using an über short cable for this purpose:


----------



## ogodei

leeperry said:


> BTW, can you break the +5V pin of the USB cable going between the PC and the decrapifier?


 
  
 Probably not as the PC often requires the +5V pin to be live in order to recognize the DAC.
  
 This does not work on Schiit Gungnir, which is expected because it requires the +5V pin at all time.  But it also does not work on my Mytek or  Questyle DACs, neither of which requires the +5V pin to be live when connected directly to the PC's USB port.
  
 Even if it did work I can't imagine any benefit to performance with the Wyrd in the chain.


----------



## leeperry

Many self-powered DAC's work fine with the +5V pin of their USB cable broken, Asus and Amimusik come to mind. The computer uses the ground for hot-plug detection IME and AFAIK.
  
 Breaking the pin on the PC side of the cable supposedly lowers the rate of interferences in the cable, at least that's why the USB controllers from SoTM come with a switch to disable it.
  
 Funnily enough, the iFi iUSB did require the +5V line to the PC to be intact.....I found it pretty ironic as the job of this unit is to replace it by a supposedly cleaner 5V signal.


----------



## mcandmar

Usually you need to present some load to the PC so it knows a device has been connected, you can easily accomplish this by disconnecting the 5v rail from the DAC and wiring an LED/resistor across the supply from the USB cable.


----------



## leeperry

Yep, like this guy did: 2channelaudio.blogspot.com/2013/01/audiophile-usb-yes-your-cable-makes.html
  
 But I never needed it myself as all Asus/Amimusik DAC's do work just fine with the +5V pin of the cable broken, and not just on my PC.


----------



## ogodei

leeperry said:


> Funnily enough, the iFi iUSB did require the +5V line to the PC to be intact.....I found it pretty ironic as the job of this unit is to replace it by a supposedly cleaner 5V signal.


 
  
 It could be the same with the Wyrd.  As I noted above my two DACs that generally work without the line intact don't when plugged into the Wyrd with the Wyrd's +5V line cut.


leeperry said:


> Yep, like this guy did: 2channelaudio.blogspot.com/2013/01/audiophile-usb-yes-your-cable-makes.html


 
  
 I built and used his "simplified" version of the cable but I like the LED load idea.


----------



## Sonido

I got the Wyrd as an attempt to fix the skipping problem I had with my Emotiva DC-1 DAC. I think the problem is my computer, but sometimes it would skip for a split second and it was very annoying. This didn't happen always and I'm sure it had to do with the load the computer was running at the time. Also, it seemed to only happen with USB 2.0 mode, and not 1.1, but Emotiva recommends running 2.0. I was skeptical at first about this product since the DC-1 doesn't draw power from the USB port, but so far with the Wyrd the skipping has been gone! Fingers crossed it's actually the Wyrd and not just getting lucky so far.


----------



## ogodei

sonido said:


> I got the Wyrd as an attempt to fix the skipping problem I had with my Emotiva DC-1 DAC. I think the problem is my computer, but sometimes it would skip for a split second and it was very annoying. This didn't happen always and I'm sure it had to do with the load the computer was running at the time. Also, it seemed to only happen with USB 2.0 mode, and not 1.1, but Emotiva recommends running 2.0. I was skeptical at first about this product since the DC-1 doesn't draw power from the USB port, but so far with the Wyrd the skipping has been gone! Fingers crossed it's actually the Wyrd and not just getting lucky so far.


 
  
 I have had the same "skipping" problem on my machine, on multiple DACs.  For me it is definitely caused by apps on the PC even though the overall load is relatively light.  I can in fact cause the problem at will now by turning certain apps on and off.
  
 If you have a PC I suggest you try this tool to see if you have the same issue. Free, very light weight, no install required. (And although the notes state it does not work on Windows 8, it does for me.)
  

  
 In the image above each red bar corresponds exactly with a sound drop out.  You can turn apps and drivers on and off to see exactly what's causing the spikes.

 And unfortunately, no, the Wyrd does not fix this issue.


----------



## castleofargh

try changing the buffer on your audio player?
 you can try to update your usb drivers. you can try to change the priority of some process and make your music player one step higher. or use some software if that still exists to force a given process onto a specified core of the cpu. making sure that the music stays alone on one and doesn't lack anything(I used that on XP for games, but that was the old days).
 it could be a sign for a bunch of viruses or spywares(not a great news but it's really a possibility).
  
 those should be the main reasons, but sometimes a problem on a computer can go very far away from the supposed problem. maybe some settings that allow to disable usb to save energy? your hard drive that stops? maybe some gamers mouse with high rate usb forces usb ports to work at 500 or 1000hz (default is 125hz).
  
 and if you're on mac most of what I said made no sens at all sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Sonido

I have tried various buffer and process priority settings and it doesn't seem to help. So far with the Wyrd the problem hasn't come back, so I think it's fixing the problem.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

sonido said:


> I have tried various buffer and process priority settings and it doesn't seem to help. So far with the Wyrd the problem hasn't come back, so I think it's fixing the problem.


 

 Besides fixing the 'skipping' problem, are there any sonic improvement that you noticed with the Wyrd in place?
  
 Thanks,
 Kratos.


----------



## Sonido

aeolus kratos said:


> Besides fixing the 'skipping' problem, are there any sonic improvement that you noticed with the Wyrd in place?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kratos.



Perhaps a quieter background, but that's likely imaginary so take that with a heavy serving of salt. Fixing the skipping issue alone for me is well worth the money.


----------



## KLJTech

I think I'm going to order the Wyrd in the next few days to try with the Gungnir Gen 2 USB. The DAC sounds great, as a matter of fact it replaced my Bryston BDA-1 but every now and then (maybe one or twice a week) I'll get a little burp/odd noise coming from my speakers (with no music playing) and I'm wondering if this is due to the USB connection. I have a very good quality, name brand power supply in tower PC (running Windows 7 x64) but it a good power supply for a PC...doesn't mean that the USB output is clean. Who knows? I've had this same minor issue with the every USB DAC I've used in my office system so I'm curious to see if the Wyrd takes care of the problem. 
  
 If the Wyrd fixes the issue I'll make sure to post it here and report back if I hear any differences in sound quality, be they good or bad changes. I primarily listen to speakers (B&W 805's or CDM-1NT's with a sub...bought both pair new and have had them for years) in the office and I'm VERY familiar with how the system sounds so if anything sounds different I'm sure I'll pick up on it over time. I don't like to sit back and "listen for changes" (good or bad) as I'd much rather just relax and listen to my music and if something stands out so be.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

kljtech said:


> I think I'm going to order the Wyrd in the next few days to try with the Gungnir Gen 2 USB. The DAC sounds great, as a matter of fact it replaced my Bryston BDA-1 but every now and then (maybe one or twice a week) I'll get a little burp/odd noise coming from my speakers (with no music playing) and I'm wondering if this is due to the USB connection. I have a very good quality, name brand power supply in tower PC (running Windows 7 x64) but it a good power supply for a PC...doesn't mean that the USB output is clean. Who knows? I've had this same minor issue with the every USB DAC I've used in my office system so I'm curious to see if the Wyrd takes care of the problem.
> 
> If the Wyrd fixes the issue I'll make sure to post it here and report back if I hear any differences in sound quality, be they good or bad changes. I primarily listen to speakers (B&W 805's or CDM-1NT's with a sub...bought both pair new and have had them for years) in the office and I'm VERY familiar with how the system sounds so if anything sounds different I'm sure I'll pick up on it over time. I don't like to sit back and "listen for changes" (good or bad) as I'd much rather just relax and listen to my music and if something stands out so be.


 

 Great! Can't wait for your impressions


----------



## MacedonianHero

sonido said:


> I got the Wyrd as an attempt to fix the skipping problem I had with my Emotiva DC-1 DAC. I think the problem is my computer, but sometimes it would skip for a split second and it was very annoying. This didn't happen always and I'm sure it had to do with the load the computer was running at the time. Also, it seemed to only happen with USB 2.0 mode, and not 1.1, but Emotiva recommends running 2.0. I was skeptical at first about this product since the DC-1 doesn't draw power from the USB port, but so far with the Wyrd the skipping has been gone! Fingers crossed it's actually the Wyrd and not just getting lucky so far.


 
 Good to hear...I've had intermittent issues with my iMac not recognizing my DAC (new and old one). So I picked one up yesterday...should be here in a week or two.


----------



## KLJTech

I bought the Wyrd Saturday and it'll arrive today, the extra USB cable won't be here until Wednesday and that's when I'll hook it all up. I was already using a Pangea USB cable to the Gungnir so I thought I may as well use the same type/brand cable going in and out of the Wyrd. I haven't had any dropout issues, but I do get odd noises now and then and my hope is that the Wyrd will take care of that small issue. We'll see... intermittent issues (however small) can be a pain.


----------



## saxelrod92

kljtech said:


> I bought the Wyrd Saturday and it'll arrive today, the extra USB cable won't be here until Wednesday and that's when I'll hook it all up. I was already using a Pangea USB cable to the Gungnir so I thought I may as well use the same type/brand cable going in and out of the Wyrd. I haven't had any dropout issues, but I do get odd noises now and then and my hope is that the Wyrd will take care of that small issue. We'll see... intermittent issues (however small) can be a pain.


 

 I'm curious to hear your experience when you have everything hooked up and running. I have a similar set up right now, I also use the pangea usb cable and going into a bifrost uber, but I have a feeling the usb ports/internal hubs are not that great on my laptop because when switching between the three of them (two of them are usb 3.0, and the one I use is usb 2.0/esata) I hear slight changes in the imaging and tone. enough for it to be annoying. and when comparing how those internal hubs are setup in device manager compared to "ideal" setups I can see theres some stuff I can't remove which could possibly be causing the not so ideal issues I hear. So I'm thinking of getting wyrd just so I have a nice clean external usb port to plug the uberfrost into so that I avoid all the internal ports/hubs. I dont expect any major change to the sound at all, but in my case I do expect to notice something different and for the better subtly. So I'm curious how this will work out for you too.


----------



## KLJTech

I believe my USB cable will arrive tomorrow or Thursday at the latest and then I'll set it up and we'll see if it takes care of the intermittent noise issue. I'm using a tower PC with Windows 7 x64 and the computer has a very good, Corsair 850 watt power supply but I have no idea how noisy or clean the power is via the USB. I should know soon if the Wyrd helps.


----------



## saxelrod92

kljtech said:


> I believe my USB cable will arrive tomorrow or Thursday at the latest and then I'll set it up and we'll see if it takes care of the intermittent noise issue. I'm using a tower PC with Windows 7 x64 and the computer has a very good, Corsair 850 watt power supply but I have no idea how noisy or clean the power is via the USB. I should know soon if the Wyrd helps.


 

 I think if anything, something to consider about the wyrd is that it technically an ideal usb port. Which makes me think about how many laptops/desktops on average would have perfect usb ports/internal implementation? So as long as wyrd is a better usb port than those that exist on the computer, it should in theory provide some kind of improvement. Of course depending on how bad/close to perfect the computer's usb ports are determines how much improvement the wyrd will bring. and I'm sure there is a definite line where it doesn't bring a noticeable enough improvement to need it. But, technically, you can always feel good knowing it is bringing improvement over whatever is on your computer, no matter what.


----------



## castleofargh

saxelrod92 said:


> I think if anything, something to consider about the wyrd is that it technically an ideal usb port. Which makes me think about how many laptops/desktops on average would have perfect usb ports/internal implementation? So as long as wyrd is a better usb port than those that exist on the computer, it should in theory provide some kind of improvement. Of course depending on how bad/close to perfect the computer's usb ports are determines how much improvement the wyrd will bring. and I'm sure there is a definite line where it doesn't bring a noticeable enough improvement to need it. But, technically, you can always feel good knowing it is bringing improvement over whatever is on your computer, no matter what.


 

  it might reduce some problems that you shouldn't have. but it's certainly not the kind of stuff you want to add thinking "it's making things better anyway so it doesn't hurt getting one". because that's false and even schiit doesn't say that.
 don't see this as a way to improve sound, see this as a possible patch when you refuse to change something wrong in your audio system. because there are plenty of DACs with independant power supply and a great clock.


----------



## saxelrod92

castleofargh said:


> it might reduce some problems that you shouldn't have. but it's certainly not the kind of stuff you want to add thinking "it's making things better anyway so it doesn't hurt getting one". because that's false and even schiit doesn't say that.
> don't see this as a way to improve sound, see this as a possible patch when you refuse to change something wrong in your audio system. because there are plenty of DACs with independant power supply and a great clock.


 

 That's all definitely true, and this product should not be looked at as making major changes in anything, so within the context of subtleties I can say that with my laptop each of the three usb ports causes a different sound, mainly with the imaging/clarity. I spent a lot of time testing to confirm. again all within the context of subtlety. So because of this, and the fact I use a bifrost uber with usb, I know for sure that using something other than the usb ports on my laptop will do something of benefit to the sound, as a "floating" 4th usb port away from the internals of my laptop. I think the idea for me here is not that it will make the sound better, but more that it will bring the sound back up to how it is supposed to be out of usb. Taking away the variables that are causing the very subtley, but noticeable to be annoying, differences in ports. If your usb ports already sound in a way that you simply don't notice any difference between them, and nothing stands out as slightly off in the sound, then your ports are already at the point of how usb is supposed to be, and with a powered dac wyrd would not be useful. For me I am considering to try it because I feel my usb ports have something off with them, and it would be nice to have a 4th port that is for sure unaffected by anything. If I do get wyrd and nothing AT ALL changes, then for me it becomes an entirely different situation.


----------



## KLJTech

I'm not sure why it would be beyond the realm of possibility that a device that delivers a cleaner signal to your source component could improve sound quality. 
  
 Back in the day we used to buy better CD transports to send the digital signal to our DAC's...it's true that most of us are buying the Wyrd because of either intermittent drop outs or odd noises yet the device is still meant to provide a better signal to your DAC.


----------



## saxelrod92

kljtech said:


> I'm not sure why it would be beyond the realm of possibility that a device that delivers a cleaner signal to your source component could improve sound quality.
> 
> Back in the day we used to buy better CD transports to send the digital signal to our DAC's...it's true that most of us are buying the Wyrd because of either intermittent drop outs or odd noises yet the device is still meant to provide a better signal to your DAC.


 

 yea that pretty much sums it up for me right there. Like I said above it acts as a "floating" usb port, and unless the ones on the computer are somehow more isolated, have repeater's, and individual power supplies, then this will send the signal without flaw. the normal ports could cause flaw, and hence a worse sound, with wyrd making it better. I dont see why it's so hard to believe, because if different ports/digital is all the same were 100% true then I could just swap between all my ports and no matter what not hear any change at all, yet I do, and I tested it blindly. So obviously getting a "perfect" port, by using wyrd, you solve whatever causes those problems.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

Does anyone recently get a Wyrd? If so, did you guys notice any SONIC improvements it brought?
  
 I'm asking because I'm planning to order a Wyrd, but I've never had any 'skipping' issues or 'noise' problems with my USB Port from my HP Probook laptop. I was just about to buy a Wyrd just to get a darker background, greater dynamic or more extension to both ends.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## castleofargh

kljtech said:


> I'm not sure why it would be beyond the realm of possibility that a device that delivers a cleaner signal to your source component could improve sound quality.
> 
> Back in the day we used to buy better CD transports to send the digital signal to our DAC's...it's true that most of us are buying the Wyrd because of either intermittent drop outs or odd noises yet the device is still meant to provide a better signal to your DAC.


 
 anything the wyrd can do could be done by a DAC, be it buffering, reclocking, or use an external power supply. that means that any problem you have that is effectively solved by the wyrd, could be avoided if you didn't have the DAC you actually use. that is a very basic assertion nobody can deny. so for me it's obvious that another DAC would be the real solution, not a magic box.
 and that's why I said this:


> > Originally Posted by *castleofargh*
> >
> >
> > see this as a possible patch when you refuse to change something wrong in your audio system.


  
  
  


aeolus kratos said:


> I was just about to buy a Wyrd just to get a darker background, greater dynamic or more extension to both ends.


----------



## Currawong

Well, Schiit could build the Wyrd into a better USB board for the Bifrost I suppose (you'd have ask them) and charge the extra for that board instead. Same difference?


----------



## ogodei

aeolus kratos said:


> Does anyone recently get a Wyrd? If so, did you guys notice any SONIC improvements it brought?
> 
> I'm asking because I'm planning to order a Wyrd, but I've never had any 'skipping' issues or 'noise' problems with my USB Port from my HP Probook laptop. I was just about to buy a Wyrd just to get a darker background, greater dynamic or more extension to both ends.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I have used it for about 4 weeks with 3 different powered DACs (including Gungnir) and 2 different amps.  In casual listening so far, no sonic differences.  It certainly it does not, and I quote, "work magic" as has been claimed elsewhere around here.
  
 I picked up a Modi to try it with an un-powered DAC but no chance to test this out yet.
  
 And for me it does not fix 'skipping,' as on my machine the skipping is not caused by power or USB issues.  I'm interested to hear details on other people's results on fixing skips.


----------



## KLJTech

castleofargh said:


> anything the wyrd can do could be done by a DAC, be it buffering, reclocking, or use an external power supply. that means that any problem you have that is effectively solved by the wyrd, could be avoided if you didn't have the DAC you actually use. that is a very basic assertion nobody can deny. so for me it's obvious that another DAC would be the real solution, not a magic box.
> and that's why I said this:
> 
> 
> >


 
  
 I'll be sure to sell my Gungnir USB 2 right away!
  
 I'm not sure why some have an issue with a $99 device that provides a better signal to your DAC. The intermittent problem I'm having with the odd noises only happens once or twice a day and I had the same issue with my other USB DAC's. Sure, Schiit Audio and the companies that made my other DAC's could have built-in something like the Wyrd but _keep in mind the relatively short period of time we've been using asynchronous USB DAC's_. In the 90's many of us were buying stand alone CD transports (they're still sold today) to provide our DAC's with a better signal and they could run just a tad more than $99. Actually most probably spent more than $99 on their digital audio cable that ran from the Transport to the DAC. 
  
 As an aside, the Wyrd isn't touted as a "magic box" by anyone, we're told what it does and what it contains on the Schiit Audio website.
  
 This is a GREAT time to be a music lover as wonderful sounding digital gear is now available at extremely low prices as compared to what the same level of sound would have cost just 6-8 years ago. Be glad that great sound can be had for far less now rather than being worried a very consumer friendly audio gear company is offering a $99 component to provide a cleaner/better signal to a DAC.


----------



## CharlesC

The fact that the Wyrd exists suggests that USB audio may be overrated.  Perhaps we should be pushing for more computer SPDIF solutions.


----------



## ogodei

charlesc said:


> The fact that the Wyrd exists suggests that USB audio may be overrated.  Perhaps we should be pushing for more computer SPDIF solutions.


 
  
 That is a very insightful point.


----------



## KLJTech

ogodei said:


> I have used it for about 4 weeks with 3 different powered DACs (including Gungnir) and 2 different amps.  In casual listening so far, no sonic differences.  It certainly it does not, and I quote, "work magic" as has been claimed elsewhere around here.
> 
> I picked up a Modi to try it with an un-powered DAC but no chance to test this out yet.
> 
> And for me it does not fix 'skipping,' as on my machine the skipping is not caused by power or USB issues.  I'm interested to hear details on other people's results on fixing skips.


 
  
 What OS are you using? Which audio player are you using for music playback? Are you using USB 2.0 or 3.0?
 Have you tried something like J.River Media Center and had it set for bit perfect output? http://www.jriver.com/audiophile.html


----------



## castleofargh

currawong said:


> Well, Schiit could build the Wyrd into a better USB board for the Bifrost I suppose (you'd have ask them) and charge the extra for that board instead. Same difference?


 
 that would make perfect sense to me. something optimally done for specified product, and no risk of redundancy
  


ogodei said:


> I have used it for about 4 weeks with 3 different powered DACs (including Gungnir) and 2 different amps.  In casual listening so far, no sonic differences.  It certainly it does not, and I quote, "work magic" as has been claimed elsewhere around here.
> I picked up a Modi to try it with an un-powered DAC but no chance to test this out yet.
> 
> And for me it does not fix 'skipping,' as on my machine the skipping is not caused by power or USB issues.  I'm interested to hear details on other people's results on fixing skips.


 
 what OS and what audio player do you use? maybe a few settings values to? do your skips have a pattern(timing, length, linked to a hard disc stopping...)?
 I'm guessing to solve skipping that came from the computer, the DAC(if asynchronous) or wyrd has to take command, if you're using wasapi in push mode that would probably forbid it from happening(but I'm guessing, I'm no wasapi expert).
 did you try a few different buffer value?


----------



## KLJTech

charlesc said:


> The fact that the Wyrd exists suggests that USB audio may be overrated.  Perhaps we should be pushing for more computer SPDIF solutions.


 
  
 Or just maybe since guys like Mike Moffat are still working to make it even better. Asynchronous USB DAC's haven't been around that long and they're getting better and less expensive all the time. 
  
 What I don't understand is spending time speaking out against a product or device that I don't want or need. If someone thinks the Wyrd is silly/snake oil/Voodoo then don't buy one. 
  
 Regarding S/PDIF, if your computer has a S/PDIF output go ahead and use it and if you prefer it to USB keep using it...problem solved.


----------



## ogodei

Skipping on my box is caused by virtual machines sending out deferred procedure calls that screw with the buffers.  I know what causes it and and how to fix it generally; turn off the VMs or fiddle with buffers.
  
 My point is that the Wyrd has no effect on anything that happens inside the machine PC besides droopy or saggy power, and so it can't fix any of those issues.  If it is fixing drops for some people I'm interested in what caused the drop outs in the first place.


----------



## Sonido

It seems the drops returned last night , though it does seem more infrequent or that could just be wishful thinking. YMMV for sure.


----------



## CharlesC

kljtech said:


> Or just maybe since guys like Mike Moffat are still working to make it even better. Asynchronous USB DAC's haven't been around that long and they're getting better and less expensive all the time.
> 
> What I don't understand is spending time speaking out against a product or device that I don't want or need. If someone thinks the Wyrd is silly/snake oil/Voodoo then don't buy one.
> 
> Regarding S/PDIF, if your computer has a S/PDIF output go ahead and use it and if you prefer it to USB keep using it...problem solved.


 

 I suspect the problem is with the computer USB implementations more than the audio devices themselves.  Anyway, just trying to provide a different perspective. 
  
 So how did your test go last night?


----------



## KLJTech

Wyrd arrived a couple days ago, but the USB cable won't be here until today. I could have hooked it up but have been too busy and decided to wait for the cable to arrive before trying it out.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kljtech said:


> Wyrd arrived a couple days ago, but the USB cable won't be here until today. I could have hooked it up but have been too busy and decided to wait for the cable to arrive before trying it out.




Now that your USB Cable is there, how is your test drive going?


----------



## ProtegeManiac

kljtech said:


> What I don't understand is spending time speaking out against a product or device that I don't want or need. If someone thinks the Wyrd is silly/snake oil/Voodoo then don't buy one.


 
  
 Much less a product where the manufacturer pokes fun at the snake oil angle of it and basically says it's only for fixing obvious problems.
  
 Anyone tried this out with an Android USB OTG device yet? I'm curious if it can help power a USB DAC that needs 5v power. The powered hubs that are known to work aren't available locally, save for the locally overpriced Belkin.


----------



## KLJTech

wildcatsare1 said:


> Now that your USB Cable is there, how is your test drive going?


 
  
 My .5m USB cable did arrive this afternoon but with my youngest son going back to school on Monday things have been a bit too busy to mess with setting it up. I thought I may have time this evening but his school had a conference/get-together this evening to meet the new teacher (get our new I.D's & parking passes) and look around the classroom so I haven't had time to mess with it. 
  
 I was a little surprised how small the Wyrd is...if I'd paid any attention to the posted specs on the website I would have known. So this is the same chassis used by the Modi and Magni? I wonder if this device sells very well for Schiit if they'd consider another version with an aluminum case that better matches the Gungnir, Asgard 2 and so on. Regardless, it looks very nice and well built. I'll be sure to give it a try as soon as possible...hopefully tomorrow at some point. 
 Take care.


----------



## saxelrod92

kljtech said:


> My .5m USB cable did arrive this afternoon but with my youngest son going back to school on Monday things have been a bit too busy to mess with setting it up. I thought I may have time this evening but his school had a conference/get-together this evening to meet the new teacher (get our new I.D's & parking passes) and look around the classroom so I haven't had time to mess with it.
> 
> I was a little surprised how small the Wyrd is...if I'd paid any attention to the posted specs on the website I would have known. So this is the same chassis used by the Modi and Magni? I wonder if this device sells very well for Schiit if they'd consider another version with an aluminum case that better matches the Gungnir, Asgard 2 and so on. Regardless, it looks very nice and well built. I'll be sure to give it a try as soon as possible...hopefully tomorrow at some point.
> Take care.


 

 I would say they wont be changing the chassis it is in simply because it saves them and, as an extension us, some money by only having a small selection of chassis for the metal shop to make, and then just change what they put inside of it. If you start making a bunch of different chassis types, then you start paying more for everything. I think they are going with the idea that everything 120 dollars and under (or so) will be this small chassis, and anything 200 and up will be the larger ones. And if you have not heard yet, in the latest post by schiit they plan to release 6 new products by the end of this year, 3 of them we know of, 3 of them we dont know. So theres quite a bit more stuff coming over the next few months.


----------



## aamer23

saxelrod92 said:


> I would say they wont be changing the chassis it is in simply because it saves them and, as an extension us, some money by only having a small selection of chassis for the metal shop to make, and then just change what they put inside of it. If you start making a bunch of different chassis types, then you start paying more for everything. I think they are going with the idea that everything 120 dollars and under (or so) will be this small chassis, and anything 200 and up will be the larger ones. And if you have not heard yet, in the latest post by schiit they plan to release 6 new products by the end of this year, 3 of them we know of, 3 of them we dont know. So theres quite a bit more stuff coming over the next few months.


 
 totally agree with you


----------



## KLJTech

I'm sure you're right about the chassis. Six new products by the end of this year?!...my poor wallet. I may have too many hobbies.


----------



## saxelrod92

kljtech said:


> I'm sure you're right about the chassis. Six new products by the end of this year?!...my poor wallet. I may have too many hobbies.


 

 lol thats what Jason said. the first 3 we know of though: ragnarok, yggdrasil, and mani. The other 3 are totally unknown.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Has anyone tried powering a USB to SPDIF convertor through the Wyrd? I have a Hiface 2 and am curious if powering it through the Schiit will make a difference vs the computer.


----------



## Thad-E-Ginathom

charlesc said:


> The fact that the Wyrd exists suggests that USB audio may be overrated.  Perhaps we should be pushing for more computer SPDIF solutions.


 
  
 In the days before google there used to be medical dictionaries and we all knew that they were bad for our health. You pick one up and start leafing through it; some long word catches the eye, and you start reading. Before you know where you are you you are convinced you have the disease!
  
 (not "you" you, of course: all of us)
  
 Now we have audiophiles and the process goes on in much the same way.  I had _practical_ problems with my PC dropping its recognition of the ODAC when I turn on the powered speakers. A simple power glitch no doubt: the PC is fine in every other respect. I connected the ODAC via a powered hub and the problem is gone.
  
 Next thing is that I find myself worrying about this whole _USB Power_ thing, which I had never given any thought to before. I can turn the volume up to full on silence, and there is no sound, so I don't think any background can be quieter (blacker?) than that. There is no interference from any other hardware. None of this mouse-moving, graphics-updating, etc etc interference that people have reported.
  
 I have, therefore, no evidence whatsoever that the power supply to my ODAC is _dirty, _yet still I wonder _if it could be cleaner! _I am not in the least concerned about the _data:   _If there is a problem with any cable costing more than 5c/p/paise/etc then there is something else wrong. USB1.0 had its problems with audio, but those days are long gone. I don't believe there is anything _inherently  _wrong with USB2.0 audio data transmission over normal to-spec cables.
  
 But _somehow_ I feel oh-so-tempted to give this thing a try. It is within my budget for occasional just-for-fun experiments, and it does not come in any area I reject on principle like expensive "audio" computer cables.
  
 But wait... Saved by the bell. Or, at least, for now, saved by the fact that it is for US voltage only. _How can they do this to us?_
  
 I guess I just have to wait and see if I am still having  a shopoholic-audiophilic attack when they do come out with that 230v adaptor.
  
 PS... About clicks, pops and dropouts connected with DPC latency (mentioned in a previous post): this is like a cancer to an audio PC and is very often terminal.


----------



## CharlesC

thad-e-ginathom said:


> But _somehow_ I feel oh-so-tempted to give this thing a try.


 
  
 So true.  I've convinced myself that the wyrd has to improve the output voltage on the DAC. How could it not?


----------



## leeperry

charlesc said:


> The fact that the Wyrd exists suggests that USB audio may be overrated.  Perhaps we should be pushing for more computer SPDIF solutions.


 
  
 S/PDIF is a crappy hifi protocol from the 70's, let it die already: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1788545-post2.html
  
 I can't wait for 230V decrapifier PSU's to be avalable, hopefully soon


----------



## Thad-E-Ginathom

thad-e-ginathom said:


> I guess I just have to wait and see if I am still having  a shopoholic-audiophilic attack when they do come out with that 230v adaptor.


 
  
_This just in ..._ From Schiit, by amazingly-prompt email response to my enquiry about 230v...
  


> ```
> Not yet, we’re still waiting for 230V wall-warts. We should have them in a couple of weeks.
> ```


----------



## leeperry

thad-e-ginathom said:


> _This just in ..._ From Schiit, by amazingly-prompt email response to my enquiry about 230v...


 
  
 Got the exact same email a few weeks ago heh, It'll be in when it'll be in I guess


----------



## Thad-E-Ginathom

Maybe it's an automatic answer!
  
 Hey-ho, what's a week or six between friends?  Especially when it comes to solving a problem we probably don't have anyway!


----------



## CharlesC

leeperry said:


> S/PDIF is a crappy hifi protocol from the 70's, let it die already: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1788545-post2.html


 
  
 Duly noted.  I'll order the USB Modi tomorrow then I'll have to get the Wyrd next month.


----------



## ogodei

I am doing some testing on the Wyrd today for a review, wanted to post some initial findings here as the thread might be interested. Please let me know if my findings are wrong somewhere.
  
 I am fully aware that I haven't talked about sound quality or jitter here, I am just starting that testing now.
  
  
*Why not just prevent all USB power from going into the DAC?*
  
 Obviously USB _powered_ DACs require power over the USB cable, but not so obvious is why AC powered DACS wouldn’t work with the +-5V USB lines cut.  The DAC doesn’t need the power, and wouldn’t that be the “cleanest” signal?  Just two wires, data only?  Since we are worried about ‘crapified’ power let’s remove it from the USB line entirely and save ourselves the cost of the Wyrd !  Right?
  
 To test whether this could be done I used the following USB cable configurations with various DACs I have available right now:
  

Standard USB cable – control to make sure the DAC works
USB cable with +5V USB line cut – removes the power from the line
USB cable with both + & -5V USB lines cut and a phantom load to PC – removes power & presents a load to the PC.  I built this cable as a few commenters indicated that this ‘tricks’ the PC into seeing a device & thus sending\accepting data from the USB port.  As it turns out, results were the same for both ‘powerline cut’ cables, regardless of the phantom load.
  
 I tried the cables both with and without an external power source feeding USB power to the DACs.  And I also tried cables with the Wyrd, since this is a Wyrd review after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

 Device works with...
 +5V USB line cut​  +-5V USB lines cut Phantom Load to PC​  +5V USB line cut​ External USB power to Device​  +-5V USB lines​ Phantom Load to PC​ External USB power to device​  Findings​  Schiit Wyrd (USB Repeater)
 No​  No​  Yes​  Yes​  Wyrd requires power input from the USB line at all times, you can’t cut the power lines leading into it.
 Schiit Modi
 No​ (USB Powered DAC)​  No​ (USB Powered DAC)​  Yes​  Yes​  Modi should work with any third-party power source via USB (not just Wyrd)
 Schiit Gungnir
 No​  No​  Yes​  Yes​  Gungnir should work with any third-party power source via USB (not just Wyrd), but it does need power via USB at all times
 Schiit Loki
 No​ (USB Powered DAC)​  No​ (USB Powered DAC)​  Yes​  Yes​  Loki should work with any third-party power source via USB (not just Wyrd)
 Questyle DSD
 Yes​  Yes​  Yes​  Yes​  Questyle DAC needs only the two data lines functional to work – technically the “cleanest” USB input tested. No power handshake needed.
 Mytek
 Yes*​  Yes*​  Yes​  Yes​  Mytek functions with both +-5V USB lines cut & no external power, but it did require USB power for the PC to initially register the DAC.  “Phantom Load” on the USB cable did not correct that.
 OPPO HA1
 Yes*​  Yes*​  Yes​  Yes​  OPPO HA1 functions with both +-5V USB lines cut & no external power, but it did require USB power for the PC to initially register the DAC.  “Phantom Load” on the USB cable did not correct that.

  
 Summarizing my findings, the three non-Schiit brand DACs worked with data only being fed via USB, although Questyle was the only DAC to allow you to do this without the initial power-handshake to the PC.  Therefore you could spend $6.99 on a Y split USB cable and 15 mins with an exacto knife to get a data-only connection for all these DACs.  No ‘dirty’ power transmission, no power conditioner needed.
  
 All the Schiit products require constant power.  Two are USB powered, yes, but the Gungnir and the externally powered USB repeater Wyrd also need a constant +5V on USB to function.    Maybe we need to get another clean third party power source to feed the Wyrd? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   In any case, any third party power USB power source would work for all the Schiit DACs.
  
*What don’t all vendors just make their AC powered DACs work with no power over the USB line?*
  
 No idea.  I presume because 1) the USB spec indicates the power will be there and it is useful for making the initial USB handshake, and 2) no one has been crazy enough to care about it.  A DAC obviously can be designed to reject and isolate the USB power and for all I know some already do, but since there has been no specific demand vendors don’t see a need to do so.
  
*What are my conclusions for people who want a resolution to ‘dirty’ USB power issues?*
  

The “cleanest” USB power is no power at all.  For non-Schiit DACs you could easily make a cable with data-lines only & an external power feed and test that before trying the Wyrd or another third party power supply.
  

For Schiit DACs or others that require constant power you could try a less expensive third party power source to power your DAC, or you could get the Wyrd.  For its price, availability and simplicity it’s a very sensible option.
  

Some company will soon be offering audiophile “Clean Power” USB cables that remove the power lines.  If theyr'e not already. I didn’t bother to look.


----------



## leeperry

Nice, you did keep the ground intact in all cases right? Only the +5V pin must be disconnected as the PC will use the ground in order to detect USB hotplug AFAIK.
  
 I guess both the iFi iUSB and decrapifier use the +5V signal coming from the PC in order to detect it.
  
 The PCI/PCI-E USB controllers from SoTM both come with a switch to disable the +5V line, many people confirmed that it gave them a free-lunch SQ upgrade due to the fact that the power line wasn't "polluting" the data lines anymore. Placebo or not, I've always enjoyed data-only cables with DAC's from Asus & Ami Musik or when feeding my own linear PSU on the DAC side of the USB cable. Several friends of mine also gave positive feedback after breaking the pin on the PC side.
  
 After all, Wireworld's USB cables sales pitch is that their data and power lines are physically separated.
  
 Oh well, I was just told that the 230V wallwarts might not even be available by the end of this month.


----------



## KLJTech

Are most of you guys that use the Bifrost of Gungnir sitting the Wyrd on top of your DAC (or DAC and headphone amp stack) or just sitting the Wyrd behind your gear out of sight?
  
 Yes, I know it doesn't matter, simply got used to the look of the Gungnir with the Lyr or Asgard 2 sitting on top of it. A first world problem at best...


----------



## ogodei

leeperry said:


> Nice, you did keep the ground intact in all cases right? Only the +5V pin must be disconnected as the PC will use the ground in order to detect USB hotplug AFAIK.


 
  
 On the "+5V USB line cut" cable, pin 4 was cut.  On the "phantom power" cable, both power and ground pins (1&4) were cut & a resistor and LED shunted across them. I left the shield ground intact in both cables.


----------



## ogodei

More findings for an eventual review.   Tests are ongoing.
  
*Can I hear a difference when I use the Wyrd?*
  
 To determine if Wyrd made an audible difference, I added the Wyrd into my signal chain in three different configurations:
  

 Power & Data from Wyrd
 Standard USB cable into Wyrd, standard USB cable out.  This is the way it’s designed to be used, both providing USB power to the end device and re-clocking the data.
 Data Only from Wyrd to DAC
 This was to test the data re-clocking feature of the Wyrd separate from its power function.  A standard USB cable is connected from the PC to the Wyrd.  A split USB cable with data-only from the Wyrd (only pins 2&3 connected ) and power only from a port on the same PC USB bus (only pins 1&4 connected) is connected between the Wyrd and the DAC.  End result: DAC gets Same ‘dirty’ laptop power and a Wyrd re-clocked data signal.
 Power Only from Wyrd to DAC
 This tested the ‘clean power’ feature of the Wyrd separate from the re-clocking feature.  No USB signal was fed into the Wyrd.  A split USB cable with data-only from the PC (only pins 2&3 connected) and power only from the Wyrd (only pins 1&4 connected) is connected to the DAC.  End result:  DAC gets “Clean” power from the Wyrd and the un-retouched data signal from the PC.

  
 Since many people seem to be interested in using Wyrd with Schiit Modi or Gungnir I tested using those two DACs. Perhaps since Modi is a USB powered DAC a larger difference could be heard?  The Gungnir tested is the recent USB2 version and uses AC power.
  
 The amp was an audio-gd Master 8, headphones were Sennheiser HD800s, player is Jriver19.  Tracks were a mixture of bit rate FLAC and DSD (see elsewhere in this review for details).
  
 For testing I did an A/B between the Wyrd scenario under test and the control (no Wyrd in the chain).  I listened to various parts of the tracks, at various volumes, for various lengths of time, usually going back and forth 3 or times times.  Testing often became blind as the identical USB cables were routed behind the laptop and I frequently lost track of which configuration was playing.
  
*Wyrd with Schiit Modi (WASAPI)*

 Scenario​  Results​  Control (no Wyrd in chain)​  N/A
 Power & Data through Wyrd​  ​  ​  Track: “Smother” – possibly louder in control?
 Track: “Just Like A Woman” - no discernible difference
 Track: “War” – Thought footsteps at beginning were louder, transients possibly louder in control?
 Track: “Got My Mojo Workin” - no discernible difference
 Track: “One More Cup of Coffee” - no discernible difference
 Track: “My Rival” - no discernible difference
 Data Only from Wyrd to DAC​  Track: “Smother” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Just Like A Woman.”  Hiss equal in both control and this scenario.
 Track: “War” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Got My Mojo Workin” - no discernible difference
 Track: “One More Cup of Coffee” - no discernible difference
 Track: “My Rival” - no discernible difference
 Power Only from Wyrd to DAC​  Track: “Smother” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Just Like A Woman” - no discernible difference
 Track: “War” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Got My Mojo Workin” - no discernible difference
 Track: “One More Cup of Coffee” - no discernible difference
 Track: “My Rival” - no discernible difference

  
 During music playback in the first scenario (standard Wyrd usage) I thought I heard a volume difference on two of the first three tracks I tested (“Smother”, “War”).  Specifically I thought the level might be 3 to 4 dB louder when the Wyrd was out of the chain.  Not the background noise in particular but the overall level based on vocals in “Smother” and transient peaks (drum crashes) in “War”.  Note both that 3dB is miniscule to the point of you may or may not be able to discern it, and that I went on I didn’t notice any more volume mismatches through the next 15 test samples. Was the difference actually there? Did my ears just get fatigued really fast?
  
 After completing all the tests with Modi I went back with the SPL and measured with power & data both going through the Wyrd.  Playing pink noise at approximately 65dB, 75dB, and 85dB showed no differences in levels between when Wyrd was in or out of the chain.  So is something going on?  Testing continued with Gungnir.
  
*Schiit Wyrd with Schiit Gungnir (with Schiit ASIO driver from C-Media)*

 Scenario​  Results​  Control (no Wyrd in chain)​  N/A
 Power & Data through Wyrd​  Track: “Thriller” - no discernible difference
 Track: “You Don’t Have To Say You Love Me” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Got My Mojo Workin” - no discernible difference
 Track: “One More Cup of Coffee” - no discernible difference
 Track: “My Rival” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Just Like A Woman” - no discernible difference
 Data Only from Wyrd to DAC​  Track: “Thriller” - no discernible difference
 Track: “You Don’t Have To Say You Love Me” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Got My Mojo Workin” - no discernible difference
 Track: “One More Cup of Coffee” –heard one “click” in the tune while playing it VERY loud but it was present on both Wyrd and control scenarios
 Track: “My Rival” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Just Like A Woman” - no discernible difference
 Power Only from Wyrd to DAC​  Track: “Thriller” - no discernible difference
 Track: “You Don’t Have To Say You Love Me” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Got My Mojo Workin” - no discernible difference
 Track: “One More Cup of Coffee” - no discernible difference
 Track: “My Rival” - no discernible difference
 Track: “Just Like A Woman” - no discernible difference

  
 No beating around the bush here, I can’t claim I actually heard a difference in any scenario with either DAC with Wyrd in the chain.  The volume difference I thought I may have heard?  It was on two of the first three tracks I tested and that belief went away long before I used the SPL meter which showed no measurable differences.
  
*What are my conclusions about audible differences when using Wyrd with Schiit Modi or Gungnir?*
  

I didn’t hear any.
  

Swapping out USB cable continuously is a PITA, testing would be much easier with duplicate DACs.
  

These tests were done on my system with my dirty-ish power and my cables. You are free to disregard my findings and test for yourself, and I encourage you to do just that.
  

I am still in love with Frazey Ford after hearing her track an umpteen-bazillion times and I think that says a lot about the strength of our relationship in the future.


----------



## CharlesC

Thanks for all the work you put into this. In case you aren't completely sick of this project, I would love to know your impressions of going from iDecice to Modi both with and without Wyrd. You da man!


----------



## ogodei

I'm not sure what iDecice is.  Typo?


----------



## CharlesC

Sorry about that. I meant it as a generic term for iPhone or iPad.


----------



## leeperry

I guess it would make the most sense to review the decrapifier with USB powered audio devices, the whole point of the unit is to inject a low ripple linear PSU IMHO.......the reclocking should only help if your PC is lagged badly or extremely noisy.


----------



## KLJTech

Well, I've been using the Wyrd almost 4 days now and thus far it has eliminated the odd burping-like noises I was getting a couple times a day. I haven't had time to simply sit back, relax and listen to music (only have in playing while I work) so I can't speak to any changes in sound quality (already sounds stellar to me). I'm not into the sit down and critically listen for changes thing. I know my setup well enough that if anything sounds better or worse I'll be aware of it before too long.


----------



## Windsor

I just got the Sennheiser HDVD 800 and balanced Sennheiser cable for my HD 800 which I'm using with a 2008 MacBook Pro connected to a surge protected power extension bar with a Wireworld Status 7 power cable and a Starlight 7 USB cable and am enjoying it a lot so far, when I've listened. Getting a Wyrd has crossed my mind too and the obvious thing that comes up is that the USB cable of the Wyrd will probably affect the sound and upgrading the stock Wyrd cable may be necessary for optimum results. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with the Wyrd and different USB cables (and with the HDVD 800/HD 800 combo too)?


----------



## aamer23

better usb made things worse for me, Schiits Pyst cables worked well. however try and get the cables on loan so you can return them if they don't work


----------



## jdpark

I would think that if the Starlight 7 USB makes a change/difference in the sound for the DAC you'll need to get two of them, one from PC to Wyrd and one from Wyrd to DAC in order to maintain the sound. 
  
 I have found after a couple weeks of listening that the Chord SilverPlus USB cable is a significant change/improvement over the stock monoprice USB cable I got with my HRT HD Streamer. 
  
 I would note, however, that I had a weird noise in my Beyerdynamic Dt990s coming from the HD streamer and my Schiit, that wasn't fixed by the Chord cable. It was like a high pitched electricity noise. I thought it was USB power, and it might be, but there are other ways to fix it than going out and getting the Wyrd and another high end cable.
  
 Now I'm listening to a Lehmann Rhinelander and the noise is all gone, so I'm thinking there just was some kind of synergy problem with the HRT, the Schiit Magni, and the super-sensitive Beyers (probably less so than the HD 800s though, of course).  
  
 People should perhaps consider synergy issues with equipment before getting the Wyrd, and especially consider the fact that many good amps clean the signal up a bit before getting to your headphones/speakers.


----------



## Krutsch

jdpark said:


> <snip, snip>
> 
> 
> *Now I'm listening to a Lehmann Rhinelander and the noise is all gone*, so I'm thinking there just was some kind of synergy problem with the HRT, the Schiit Magni, and the super-sensitive Beyers (probably less so than the HD 800s though, of course).
> ...


 
  
 Slightly OT, but do you like your Rhinelander?  Would you recommend it?  I continue to agonize over a replacement head/amp and there are just too many good choices.  But, I am a fan of clean, noise free amplification.  Thanks, in advance.


----------



## saxelrod92

windsor said:


> I just got the Sennheiser HDVD 800 and balanced Sennheiser cable for my HD 800 which I'm using with a 2008 MacBook Pro connected to a surge protected power extension bar with a Wireworld Status 7 power cable and a Starlight 7 USB cable and am enjoying it a lot so far, when I've listened. Getting a Wyrd has crossed my mind too and the obvious thing that comes up is that the USB cable of the Wyrd will probably affect the sound and upgrading the stock Wyrd cable may be necessary for optimum results. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience with the Wyrd and different USB cables (and with the HDVD 800/HD 800 combo too)?


 

 My initial reaction was the same as yours about, if I get wyrd now I need to buy a duplicate of the cable going to the dac. but technically you dont. Sure make it decent enough if you want, but the wyrd is essentially a floating usb port with its own power supply and repeater chip. meaning the cable that feeds it, is no more important than the internal wiring of your computer feeding it's ports. Just the fact all this takes place externally, solves interference issue on this cable, and once it gets to the wyrd the whole signal gets repeated and powered and cleaned, so only the cable going from the wyrd to the dac would matter, just like how it is going straight out of your computer to a dac. No need to spend tons of money on a cable that wont even affect the sound in the chain. Like I have a shorter audioquest forest cable, and a pangea cable. same price for both but the pangea cable is built with the same materials and specs as a 120 dollar audioquest carbon. either way, if I got wyrd I would use the audioquest forest cable from my laptop to wyrd, and then the pangea cable from wyrd to my dac. It doesnt make sense to me how a cable feeding something that completely reconstructs and cleans the signal could possibly change the signal. Once the data/signal hits the wyrd its basically now starting over brand new and fresh from there, and only components after the wyrd matter.


----------



## Windsor

saxelrod92 said:


> My initial reaction was the same as yours about, if I get wyrd now I need to buy a duplicate of the cable going to the dac. but technically you dont. Sure make it decent enough if you want, but the wyrd is essentially a floating usb port with its own power supply and repeater chip. meaning the cable that feeds it, is no more important than the internal wiring of your computer feeding it's ports. Just the fact all this takes place externally, solves interference issue on this cable, and once it gets to the wyrd the whole signal gets repeated and powered and cleaned, so only the cable going from the wyrd to the dac would matter, just like how it is going straight out of your computer to a dac. No need to spend tons of money on a cable that wont even affect the sound in the chain. Like I have a shorter audioquest forest cable, and a pangea cable. same price for both but the pangea cable is built with the same materials and specs as a 120 dollar audioquest carbon. either way, if I got wyrd I would use the audioquest forest cable from my laptop to wyrd, and then the pangea cable from wyrd to my dac. It doesnt make sense to me how a cable feeding something that completely reconstructs and cleans the signal could possibly change the signal. Once the data/signal hits the wyrd its basically now starting over brand new and fresh from there, and only components after the wyrd matter.




Thanks for your thoughtful response - like I'm sure the Wyrd will, it's really cleared things up!

Oh, and I love the beautiful pictures you linked to in your signature. Right up my street!


----------



## sludgeogre

Honestly you all need to try wyrd with Monoprice cables and compare it to your current fancy ones. I have Monoprice cables into and out of my Wyrd and it sounds absolutely beautiful.
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030310


----------



## Windsor

sludgeogre said:


> Honestly you all need to try wyrd with Monoprice cables and compare it to your current fancy ones. I have Monoprice cables into and out of my Wyrd and it sounds absolutely beautiful.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030310


 
  
 Another top tip - thanks!


----------



## saxelrod92

windsor said:


> Thanks for your thoughtful response - like I'm sure the Wyrd will, it's really cleared things up!
> 
> Oh, and I love the beautiful pictures you linked to in your signature. Right up my street!


 

 No problem! 
  
 and I'm glad you enjoyed the pictures, I follow some nice facebook pages that post those pics, and when one catches my eye I download it and save it. Figured I'd leave it in my signature for people to also enjoy. They are great to look at when listening to music too, if you like having a visual beauty to go with your audio beauty lol. I need to add a few more pics soon though...


----------



## aamer23

sludgeogre said:


> Honestly you all need to try wyrd with Monoprice cables and compare it to your current fancy ones. I have Monoprice cables into and out of my Wyrd and it sounds absolutely beautiful.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030310


 
 and Schiits recommend the monoprice cables too thats what I understood from the blurb on their web page


----------



## Slowfade

I had this issue where quite often I could not send signal out through to my DAC. My iMac knew the DAC was there, but it just would not work. For the longest I thought it was Audirvana crapping out - but I read this post someplace that recommended trying the Wyrd.......  It fixed it!!!!  Sounds great and now it all works every time. Completely solid now.
  
 In hindsight, a powered USB hub might work too, but hey, they Wyrd works great for me now, so I'm sold.
  
 iMac w/Audirvana 1.5.12 >Wyrd>Bifrost>Lyr>Hifiman HE-500's
  
 For me, I believe I hear a sonic improvement, but I also changed out USB cables too at the same time, so I can't say exactly how much the Wyrd has to do with it. Quieter/darker backgrounds and a better sense of space, clarity and air between voices and instruments. Tighter bass. Perhaps a wider, or at least different soundstage from before. Perhaps a slightly more creamy top end? - Nothing life changing, just a bit here and a bit there.......Then again it could just be this porter I'm drinking tonight.


----------



## LC3

veerk said:


> This sort of reminds what Gigabyte is doing with their motherboards, having a dedicated USB port for DACs in an effort to transmit clean sound.


 
 Quote:


protegemaniac said:


> MSI also has USB ports designed to deliver consistent, clean 5v - the difference between them is that Gigabyte has it in the outline of the blurb, but MSI has it in the lower section with the longer explanation and accompanying graphic.


 
  
 Thanks for posting about this.  If I decide on a desktop for my next computer, I'll get one of these motherboards.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

windsor said:


> Another top tip - thanks!


 
  


slowfade said:


> I had this issue where quite often I could not send signal out through to my DAC. My iMac knew the DAC was there, but it just would not work. For the longest I thought it was Audirvana crapping out - but I read this post someplace that recommended trying the Wyrd.......  It fixed it!!!!  Sounds great and now it all works every time. Completely solid now.
> 
> In hindsight, a powered USB hub might work too, but hey, they Wyrd works great for me now, so I'm sold.
> 
> ...


 
 Similar findings first with this setup, Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2>HE560/Alpha Dogs, similar results changing out the Modi with a Bifrost, quieter, which contributed to improved tonality, imaging,soundstage, a bit deeper bass, and smoother top end. More pronounced with the Modi, but clearly there with the Bifrost in the chain.


----------



## saxelrod92

Hey guys so I have a quick question about wyrd. I see that it has a power switch, which is nice, but I'm curious if you guys leave it on all the time, or turn it off when you turn off your other components (dac, amp)? And if turning it off disconnects the dac from the computer? Like as is, with the bifrost it doesnt matter if it is on or off, the computer still sees it attached, which is really nice so that it isn't just connecting and disconnecting from the computer every time. So I wanted to know if wyrd works the same way, or changes that. Thanks!


----------



## KLJTech

I leave all my gear on all the time unless a heavy storm with lightning (live in Florida) is moving in the area. I'm pretty sure that unplugging the Wyrd disconnects the computer from the DAC but honestly I've never tried it. Shoot an email to Schiit Audio and they'll let you know ASAP. They have outstanding customer service. 
  
 In my office, I use two Furman PST-8D's, one for my audio gear and the other for computer, cable modem and printer with both Furman's plugged into the same wall outlet top and bottom. I don't want to take any chances with the amount of lightning we get here so when the storms get near I turn off everything and unplug both Furman's from the wall. 
  
 Good luck!


----------



## RickB

saxelrod92 said:


> Hey guys so I have a quick question about wyrd. I see that it has a power switch, which is nice, but I'm curious if you guys leave it on all the time, or turn it off when you turn off your other components (dac, amp)? And if turning it off disconnects the dac from the computer? Like as is, with the bifrost it doesnt matter if it is on or off, the computer still sees it attached, which is really nice so that it isn't just connecting and disconnecting from the computer every time. So I wanted to know if wyrd works the same way, or changes that. Thanks!


 

 Just got my Wyrd today, but I asked Nick at Schiit Audio if I should turn it off when not in use and he said yes.
  
 Also, when you turn off Wyrd, the DAC is disconnected from the computer (at least on my system).


----------



## saxelrod92

kljtech said:


> I leave all my gear on all the time unless a heavy storm with lightning (live in Florida) is moving in the area. I'm pretty sure that unplugging the Wyrd disconnects the computer from the DAC but honestly I've never tried it. Shoot an email to Schiit Audio and they'll let you know ASAP. They have outstanding customer service.
> 
> In my office, I use two Furman PST-8D's, one for my audio gear and the other for computer, cable modem and printer with both Furman's plugged into the same wall outlet top and bottom. I don't want to take any chances with the amount of lightning we get here so when the storms get near I turn off everything and unplug both Furman's from the wall.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 Yea the Florida storms can get real crazy, I live in Palm Beach Gardens so I'm about the same way up the state as you just on the other side. I have all my stuff plugged into an APC surge protector that is rated at like 3400 joules. And if a surge exceeds that it basically self destructs the internal wiring (its only a 30 dollar device from like 6 years ago, but its super heavy duty). So I dont turn off stuff during storms, just at night/when I wont be using it.
  


rickb said:


> Just got my Wyrd today, but I asked Nick at Schiit Audio if I should turn it off when not in use and he said yes.
> 
> Also, when you turn off Wyrd, the DAC is disconnected from the computer (at least on my system).


 
 Good to know, thank you! I usually turn off all my gear when I got to bed or am not using it for a while, but leave my laptop on all the time.


----------



## BeatsWork

Definitely not "snake oil"  IF you have USB noise issues.  I've been using an isolator meant for sensitive scientific equipment for years which helped greatly with several DACs I've owned that had bad USB implementation and the isloator worked wonders.  I did purchase the Wyrd and a little disappointed. Eliminated an odd "burp" I would occasionally get  on my Maverick D2 but still getting a bit of noise when moving mouse around screen which my other isolator removed completely.  Only an issue when nothing is playing but still for $100 I had hoped for complete silence. Schitt is "Swiss" on whether Wyrd has any impact on SQ and after a highly non-rigorous A/B I can't detect any difference (aside from noise elimination).


----------



## atraf

For those who waited, WYRD is finally available in 230v Version.


----------



## ogodei

beatswork said:


> ... I've been using an isolator meant for sensitive scientific equipment for years which helped greatly with several DACs I've owned that had bad USB implementation and the isloator worked wonders.  ...


 
  
 Lab Brick?


----------



## BeatsWork

ogodei said:


> Lab Brick?


 
 Had to search my email.  Was originally intended to isolate PC from devices with high voltage.  I was close 
  
 Butt ugly but cheap and it works well.  Still using on secondary setup just put the Wyrd on my primary. 
  
 https://www.olimex.com/Products/USB-Modules/USB-ISO/
  
 From there site:
  

Can I use USB-ISO for removing the ground loops between my computer and my Audio HIFI equipment?
Yes, USB-ISO isolates the grounds and according to some Audiophile customers of ours there is a significant improvement in their USB DAC sound after using the USB-ISO as an isolation for the ground loops between their computers and audio equipment. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496735


----------



## leeperry

atraf said:


> For those who waited, WYRD is finally available in 230v Version.



 

Yeah great, they sent me a 16V wallwart duh, it was meant for Magni I guess: 



And it measures 19.75V with no load, hopefully they'll soon have the right wallwart headed my way 

Also, are the USB connectors supposed to wiggle so much? I briefly owned a MODI and the enclosure was keeping the plugs in place but they wiggle quite a bit on my decrapifier, I could see it going bananas after extensive plugging.


----------



## ogodei

leeperry said:


> Also, are the USB connectors supposed to wiggle so much? I briefly owned a MODI and the enclosure was keeping the plugs in place but they wiggle quite a bit on my decrapifier, I could see it going bananas after extensive plugging.


 

 My output is a _little_ loose, I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it.  I don't see anything to worry about on my unit & I have done a lot of cable changes already.


----------



## hekeli

> Yeah great, they sent me a 16V wallwart duh, it was meant for Magni I guess


 
  
 Hahah same here... damn I have to wait again atleast a week for The Better Sound (tm)...


----------



## nilov

get own wyrd on monday,but also with other AC adapter.Today get normal 6 vac.Thanks for fast reply Schiit and FedEx delivery 
 IMHO with wyrd my sound system sounds better


----------



## hekeli

Lol Fedex just called and dropped something in my mailbox? I guess new AC waiting... few hours from email. D Yeah I guess they already realized everyone in EU got wrong adapter..


----------



## Rudiger

Same here, I received (in France) my Wyrd with bad Wallwart (16 VAC). (Fortunately it does not fit in the Wyrd...)
  Yep like heyeli said it looks like they have a general problem here.
  

 And I received... a 2m long USB Pyst cable !! Apparently all their new stock was like that and I was the first to inform them.
 Schiit responded quickly. Sad they have not agreed to give me a bonus cable for my double misfortune. (They told me that I have already the chance to have a very good 2m cable for my printer, I suppose it's a joke).
  
 Regarding the Wyrd, it seems nice but I still hear an interference when my computer screen goes to sleep, which was my main problem. Hmm ....


----------



## ogodei

beatswork said:


> Had to search my email.  Was originally intended to isolate PC from devices with high voltage.  I was close
> 
> Butt ugly but cheap and it works well.  Still using on secondary setup just put the Wyrd on my primary.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Picked one of these up to play with.  It seems to be limited to 48kHz sample rate, higher bit rates throw an error when its in the chain. I presume this is the galvanic isolation speed limitation mentioned by Jason Stoddard in the Wyrd FAQ and at other places here on Head-Fi.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Do you have it working at a higher bit rate?
  
 I've been using the Vaunix Lab Brick which functions similarly to the Wyrd but with 4 outputs.  I frequently have more than one DAC on at a time, the lab brick frees up ports on my PC.


----------



## BeatsWork

ogodei said:


> Picked one of these up to play with.  It seems to be limited to 48kHz sample rate, higher bit rates throw an error when its in the chain. I presume this is the galvanic isolation speed limitation mentioned by Jason Stoddard in the Wyrd FAQ and at other places here on Head-Fi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just switched it out for Wyrd and not having issue.  Jriver>Output Format>  No resampling up to 96khz > WASAPI to my Maverick D2.  No issues.


----------



## cooperpwc

I just ordered the Wyrd and Modi. Nice to finally have the 230 volt option!


----------



## jcwc

Received my Wyrd today with the 230V UK adapter. I was looking forward to it curing some of the dirty noise from my PC's USB bus.
  
 Hooked it up, booted my PC, then turned it on... and I get this horrible static noise coming out. I've put a video up below:
  
 /img/vimeo_logo.png
  
 Second problem is that my Geek Out is no longer recognized by my PC. Normally once connected the GO will light up and shows up in the control panel - doesn't happen now after I connect it to the Wyrd.
  
 Can anyone help to troubleshoot? Or is my Wyrd defective?


----------



## Rudiger

Your Wyrd is probably defective. You should tell the problem to Schiit support, they are very reactive and are the more able to inform you about this.


----------



## jcwc

rudiger said:


> Your Wyrd is probably defective. You should tell the problem to Schiit support, they are very reactive and are the more able to inform you about this.


 
  
 I have emailed Schiit a few hours back and am awaiting their reply.
  
 I hope there's a fix that doesn't require me to post the unit back to the USA (the international postage isn't cheap).


----------



## ogodei

jcwc said:


> Received my Wyrd today with the 230V UK adapter. I was looking forward to it curing some of the dirty noise from my PC's USB bus.
> 
> Hooked it up, booted my PC, then turned it on... and I get this horrible static noise coming out. I've put a video up here: http://videobam.com/JrNpd
> 
> ...


 
  
 Boot order matters to recognition for some DACS, the Wyrd may need to be on first for the PC to see the DAC.  In this case though sounds like a defective/damaged unit.


----------



## jcwc

ogodei said:


> Boot order matters to recognition for some DACS, the Wyrd may need to be on first for the PC to see the DAC.  In this case though sounds like a defective/damaged unit.


 
  
 I've tried that too. DAC still not recognized. And of course all the while during the boot up that annoying noise is heard.


----------



## leeperry

For the record it doesn't work with WaveIO, no idea why as the front led shows that it's detected but Windows can't see it.


----------



## BeatsWork

leeperry said:


> For the record it doesn't work with WaveIO, no idea why as the front led shows that it's detected but Windows can't see it.


 
  
 Starting to see a trend here with certain DACs not playing nice with USB isolators.   Might be helpful for people to post:
  
  
 -Isolator used
 -DAC used
 -USB chip in DAC
 -USB chip in PC
 -OS on PC
 -Driver version of USB chip in PC 
 -Worked/Didn't work:  Describe issue
  
 Better ideas on how to find common thread?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jcwc said:


> Received my Wyrd today with the 230V UK adapter. I was looking forward to it curing some of the dirty noise from my PC's USB bus.
> 
> Hooked it up, booted my PC, then turned it on... and I get this horrible static noise coming out. I've put a video up below:
> 
> ...




I just had something similar happen on my ASUS with JRiver 20. Had a bit of surgery last week, used my iFi iDSD while in the hospital. When I returned, I selected the wrong "Schiit USB 2.0" Device, I have both the Modi and Bifrost, and heard a similar cacophony! Once, I switched over to the appropriate USB "Device". And matched it to the appropriate Schiit on JRiver, the music was once again beautiful!


----------



## hekeli

beatswork said:


> Starting to see a trend here with certain DACs not playing nice with USB isolators.


 
  
 Could we just agree to not call Wyrd an "isolator"?
  
 Usage wise it's identical to a $10 USB hub with external power supply. Wyrd is a 1-port USB hub, just with better power brick and fancy clocking. The chip is a hub controller chip (yeah "repeater" sounds more fancy marketing), you can even see it in Windows device manager etc (my Win7 says "USB 2.0 Hub").
  
 So normal troubleshooting applies, go disable power saving features etc on BOTH the hub and device etc... (Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power, etc on windows device manager). Also download USBView.exe..


----------



## leeperry

Wyred is a USB hub running off a linear regulated PSU, a complete different story from a SMPS powered cheapo hub. It "isolates" the +5V pin of the USB cable but it doesn't provide galvanic isolation.


----------



## jcwc

wildcatsare1 said:


> I just had something similar happen on my ASUS with JRiver 20. Had a bit of surgery last week, used my iFi iDSD while in the hospital. When I returned, I selected the wrong "Schiit USB 2.0" Device, I have both the Modi and Bifrost, and heard a similar cacophony! Once, I switched over to the appropriate USB "Device". And matched it to the appropriate Schiit on JRiver, the music was once again beautiful!


 
  
 This wrong selection of USB device was inside your JRiver software? Or some other application?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

It was in the Windows App, I had two "devices" from which to make the default. When the incorrect one was selected, I think it's a safe guess because of the noise, also played through the computer speakers occurred. Once I switched to the other Schiit USB Device, all began working beautifully.

My apologies for the extremely low-tech explanation.


----------



## sludgeogre

Search for "Sound" in the control panel. It'll bring up a bunch of tabs, the first one being "Playback." Try the different devices until you get the best results.


----------



## hekeli

leeperry said:


> Wyred is a USB hub running off a linear regulated PSU, a complete different story from a SMPS powered cheapo hub. It "isolates" the +5V pin of the USB cable but it doesn't provide galvanic isolation.


 
  
 Um are you saying that a cheapo hub does not "isolate" the +5V pin? How exactly is hub vs hub a "complete different story" given what I wrote earlier?
  
 To clarify, I'm pretty much talking about compatibility (let's leave the hifi stuff out of this). There should be no difference with some device working hub vs hub (assuming both are high-speed etc). If the other hub doesn't work, then it's implemented (very) poorly andor out of USB spec. Or the device just doesn't like hubs generally.
  
 Obviously the "real isolators" are a different thing, and limited to full-speed. I don't know if they generate any incompatibilities on their own, shouldn't they be pretty "pass-through"?


----------



## jcwc

wildcatsare1 said:


> It was in the Windows App, I had two "devices" from which to make the default. When the incorrect one was selected, I think it's a safe guess because of the noise, also played through the computer speakers occurred. Once I switched to the other Schiit USB Device, all began working beautifully.
> 
> My apologies for the extremely low-tech explanation.


 
  
 Ok I know what you mean. In my case I do not have multiple devices, just the Geek Out. So not much chance of selecting the incorrect device.
  
 Besides, I did another test whereby I disconnected the Wyrd from my PC. I also plugged the Geek Out directly to the Wyrd (w/o any USB cable). So there is no possibility of cable problem or interference from the PC. I get the same noise when powering up the Wyrd. Video below:
  
 /img/vimeo_logo.png


----------



## Wildcatsare1

James,

That's the sound it makes when it's not "locking in", for want of a better term. The Atom Bomb would be erasing the Schiit Drivers, downloading them again, repeating the installation process. 

I can guarantee it sounds wonderful, once set-up. Have you contacted Nick yet at tech@schiit.com?


----------



## jcwc

Just updating that Schiit is replacing my Wyrd. Kudos to their great customer service.


----------



## Krutsch

So, finally got my Wyrd installed on my 2-channel system.  My 2009 Mac Mini was having USB issues and they seem to be gone now (no more pops or screeches during playback).  I'm impressed, I wasn't really expecting the Wyrd to actually do anything, but there you go.
  
 One comment though: wow, those LEDs are insanely bright - like flashlights in my living room.  The Wyrd is sitting next to the '09 Mac Mini and it's interesting to see the difference in the LEDs (they are so bright, they wash out on the camera):


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jcwc said:


> Just updating that Schiit is replacing my Wyrd. Kudos to their great customer service.




Great, the Guys at Schiit are awesome! I look forward to you getting a working unit, and your report on how it sounds (or doesn't sound ).


----------



## commtrd

ckyr said:


> I wonder what difference it might make...


 

 Well I am hearing a marked difference in staging, clean and crisp highs, more timbre and tonality, and cleaner bass. I think the Wyrd has made more difference than did the Silver Widow cable personally. Not to say the cable has not been an improvement, but rather the Wyrd has had more effect on the overall SQ than has the cable. Needless to say, very happy with the addition of the Wyrd in the chain. When I get my Ragnarok should be some very enjoyable listening indeed... Using the Wyrd with my laptop has definitely helped with the occasional dropouts which really did not seem to happen with my desktop system at all. Consider this: if the Wyrd does nothing more than clean up the USB transmission to the dac, helping eliminate dropouts, then it is money well spent IMHO. Fortunately I feel there are tangible benefits heard in my system. Plus it can help make recordings that may be less than perfect quality a bit more listenable. YMMV of course...


----------



## cooperpwc

Two days in and I am very pleased with my Wyrd + Modi stack. It is tighter, cleaner, more resolving than the UD120 (which is a nice little DAC). It is difficult to say though how much of the improvement is attributable to the Wyrd and how much to the Modi. Eventually I will do some comparisons to isolate the influences.
  
 Meanwhile the stack looks great, it is inexpensive  outright cheap, and it sounds very good.


----------



## jcwc

I received my replacement Wyrd and got it working with my Geek Out (had to uninstall and reinstall the drivers to get it to work).
  
 My main purpose in getting the Wyrd is to try to eliminate (a) some hi frequency noise coming from the usb when my PC has lot of hard disk activity and (b) some occasional pop or glitch when playing music. Good news is (a) is gone, but (b) does still happen.
  
 As for sonic improvements, I didn't expect any but hoped for some. I do feel that the SQ has improved - blacker background so the music seems to float out more; smoother and richer mids/highs. So this is welcomed.
  
 On the usability side, my only gripe is that the Geek Out doesn't automatically initialize every time I turn on the Wyrd. To get my Geek Out working I have to unplug/replug it from the Wyrd and then it will initialize and work properly with my PC. Another user of the Geek Out has also experienced the same issue.
  
 I wonder if other DACs face this issue? Or is it just the way the Wyrd works with all DACs?
  
 Anyway, I'm glad I spent $99 for it.


----------



## commtrd

First time trying to hook up thru the Wyrd my wireless mouse quit working after the initialization but a puter reboot later all was well. No problems with the dac functioning as before so seems to have been a useful addition to the chain. The M/G stack with the USB Gen II/Wyrd and laptop as source is sounding really good.


----------



## BeatsWork

commtrd said:


> First time trying to hook up thru the Wyrd my wireless mouse quit working after the initialization but a puter reboot later all was well. No problems with the dac functioning as before so seems to have been a useful addition to the chain. The M/G stack with the USB Gen II/Wyrd and laptop as source is sounding really good.


 

 You didn't connect mouse and DAC to Wyrd with another hub did you?  Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of filtering noise potentially generated by mouse???


----------



## sludgeogre

jcwc said:


> some occasional pop or glitch when playing music.


 
 I had the same problem, but it turned out to be my hard drive. When I put my music on my SSD, it doesn't do it, ever. With the old hard drive, it pops every hour or so. I'm going to replace it soon and pull my stuff off the SSD. It makes me wonder if an old 5400 RPM hard drive just can't keep up with caching a lot of hi-res music. I have no idea, though.


----------



## ogodei

jcwc said:


> My main purpose in getting the Wyrd is to try to eliminate (a) some hi frequency noise coming from the usb when my PC has lot of hard disk activity and (b) some occasional pop or glitch when playing music. Good news is (a) is gone, but (*b) does still happen*.


 
  
 Could be deferred procedure calls (poorly behaving software) on the PC, Wyrd wont fix that, try this tool to find out.
  
  Quote:


> On the usability side, my only gripe is that the Geek Out doesn't automatically initialize every time I turn on the Wyrd. To get my Geek Out working I have to unplug/replug it from the Wyrd and then it will initialize and work properly with my PC. Another user of the Geek Out has also experienced the same issue.
> 
> I wonder if other DACs face this issue? Or is it just the way the Wyrd works with all DACs?


  
 The Wyrd usually needs to be on _before_ you plug in the DAC, to allow the handshake with the PC.


----------



## cooperpwc

ogodei said:


> The Wyrd usually needs to be on _before_ you plug in the DAC, to allow the handshake with the PC.


 
  
 I leave my Surface Pro 2, Wyrd and Modi connected. Turning Wyrd on and off also turns Modi on and off as it relies on Wyrd for power. So far Modi handshaking with my SP2 has been immediate whenever I turn Wyrd back on.


----------



## StefanJK

ogodei said:


> Could be deferred procedure calls (poorly behaving software) on the PC, Wyrd wont fix that, try this tool to find out.


 
 I've found that turning off Wyrd at all when my computer is on causes problems (all the way to complete hangs for the computer, forcing a hard reboot).  So I just leave it on.


----------



## wolfwalker78

Might be worth having this thing just for the on/off switch.  I can't find a USB port that isn't always powered on my PC when it's sleeping.


----------



## ogodei

wolfwalker78 said:


> Might be worth having this thing just for the on/off switch.  I can't find a USB port that isn't always powered on my PC when it's sleeping.


 
  
 Several solutions to that but the Wyrd may indeed be the best choice, looks good, works well.
  
This is an interesting beast, you can turn power on and off to the individual ports.   Works but kind of cheap quality.  There are also those "green" power bars that turn on extra outlets when the main device is turned on.


----------



## jcwc

sludgeogre said:


> I had the same problem, but it turned out to be my hard drive. When I put my music on my SSD, it doesn't do it, ever. With the old hard drive, it pops every hour or so. I'm going to replace it soon and pull my stuff off the SSD. It makes me wonder if an old 5400 RPM hard drive just can't keep up with caching a lot of hi-res music. I have no idea, though.


 
  
 I also have my music on a SSD.


----------



## jcwc

wolfwalker78 said:


> Might be worth having this thing just for the on/off switch.  I can't find a USB port that isn't always powered on my PC when it's sleeping.


 
  
 There might be a BIOS setting in your PC that can power off the USB port when your PC is sleeping.


----------



## jcwc

ogodei said:


> Could be deferred procedure calls (poorly behaving software) on the PC, Wyrd wont fix that, try this tool to find out.
> 
> The Wyrd usually needs to be on _before_ you plug in the DAC, to allow the handshake with the PC.


 
  
 Thanks. Nifty tool.
  
 There's no issue with having the Wyrd on before plugging in the DAC. The issue is that I can't keep the DAC permanently connected to the Wyrd and have it auto handshake with the PC when I turn on the Wyrd. What I have to do each time is turn on the Wyrd first, then unplug and replug the DAC then only will the DAC handshake with the PC; wish I could skip this step of having to unplug/replug the DAC.


----------



## castleofargh

any USB tool from windows takes a lot more time than unplugging replugging and most of the times don't even "wake up/make the computer recognize" the external gear. I'm talking in general here, I wish there was a simple and fast software action to simulate a unplug/replug physical action real fast. I sure would have a use for that and not only for audio.


----------



## commtrd

beatswork said:


> commtrd said:
> 
> 
> > First time trying to hook up thru the Wyrd my wireless mouse quit working after the initialization but a puter reboot later all was well. No problems with the dac functioning as before so seems to have been a useful addition to the chain. The M/G stack with the USB Gen II/Wyrd and laptop as source is sounding really good.
> ...


 

 No the mouse is a wireless Logitech with a little deal that sticks into a USB port. I also have an external HD attached via USB since I installed a SSD in the laptop plus the outgoing USB connection to the Wyrd. Everything works just fine after the initial setup issue.


----------



## leeperry

So I take it that if you don't plug anything to Wyred apart from its PSU, neither of the front LED's should be on, right? 

Because the right one remains on as soon as I plug its wallwart and when I plug my W7SP1/H87 box onto it, Wyred is recognized as an "unknown USB device" and that's all folks, plugging any USB device or restarting the PC don't change anything. Will whine to Schiit for support :evil:


----------



## ogodei

The right LED turns on when you power on the Wyrd, whether it is connected via USB to anything or not.  The left LED turns on when the Wyrd is successfully connected to devices on BOTH the incoming and outgoing USB ports.
  
 With no DAC attached & the Wyrd powered on, the Wyrd should show up in Win7 computer management as a 'generic USB hub' and 'USB Composite device'.  When a DAC is attached & the Wyrd powered on the DAC should show up as an audio device (provided you previously loaded the drivers).
  
 Test the DAC without the Wyrd in the chain. Make sure you are using quality USB 2.0 cables to do the testing,  I have seen the Wyrd get finicky with some short no-name cables I have tried to use.  And if your DAC has separate ports for USB1 and USB2, use the USB 2.0 port.


----------



## leeperry

OK, thanks a lot for the infos! That doesn't match what the user manual says: 

 

anyway, it's recognized as an unknown USB device, its ID in the device manager is "USB\VID_0424&PID_2412&REV_0BB2" and W7SP1 has no idea what driver to use. I'm overseas so I'd rather avoid RMA =i

so the Wyred needs a Windows driver after all, I thought it'd be just as transparent as ADuM4160 bleh...wth can't Windows find this driver is beyond me: http://www.driveridentifier.com/scan/usb-20-hub/driver-detail/6ACF24468081400A8CA0EBE15A6F2386/1986732/dab06b9b67891d9b29d66bb4e88c0845/1465300327/IUSB3%5CCLASS_09%26SUBCLASS_00%26PROT_01

" Device Name
 USB 2.0 Hub
Hardware ID
 USB\VID_0424&PID_2412&REV_0BB2"

I only tried the USB3 ports of the H87 chipset, I tried several USB3 and Monster USB2 cables to no available....unknown device either way.

Murphy's law yada yada :evil:


----------



## BeatsWork

leeperry said:


> OK, thanks a lot for the infos! That doesn't match what the user manual says:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you go to Driver>update driver>Browse My Computer>Let Me Pick -   can you then select "USB Root Hub (xHCI)?  That's the driver I have on Win 8 - Dated 7/23/2014 Ver 6.3.9600.17238


----------



## hekeli

Fix your windows, install chipset drivers etc. USB3 ports almost always require some special drivers but it has nothing to do with Wyrd. It's a generic hub which windows will support just fine if everything else is in order. (Maybe your Windows has disable online driver search, wrong drivers are forcefully installed etc, there's so many ways one can crapify windows that it's not funny..)


----------



## leeperry

OMG, it's alive 

I upgraded the W7SP1 Intel H87 USB3 drivers from 2.5.3.34 to 3.0.1.41 and bam, one reboot later the Wyred drivers installed instantly! I believe I read that USB3 was a giant kludge on W7 which was fixed with W8 considering that it supports USB3 OOTB.

6 months in the computer world is a lifetime as it would appear 

Either way, the PDF user manual on their website has the LEDs inverted, the power led is the right one and not the left one.


----------



## jcwc

leeperry said:


> OMG, it's alive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you got the Wyrd working. What sort of USB issues were you hoping to cure with the Wyrd and did it cure them?


----------



## leeperry

Didn't have any problem at all, my only goal was to benefit from the LM723 linear PSU......so far I let it run for one day with the Audioengine D3 @24/44.1 and all went fine but right now while streaming a 24/88.2 tune to the D3, playback suddenly stopped and foobar froze. I unplugged the D3, killed foobar, fit it back in and it was started playing white noise, I tried another PCM2704 dongle I keep around for tests and music was getting through but with a lot of loud clicks covering it huh.

I tried to restart Wyred, unplug its PSU for 30 secs together with the USB cables but it took a reboot to fix it. Hopefully I don't have a dud coz I was really enjoying it..

PS: and it just happened again with 24/88.2 fed to the D3 after 5 mins, the latter seems to work just fine off the mobo. I love troubleshooting.


----------



## BeatsWork

leeperry said:


> Didn't have any problem at all, my only goal was to benefit from the LM723 linear PSU......


 
 So you bought a $100 Wyrd to improve the power on a $150 DAC?


----------



## cooperpwc

beatswork said:


> So you bought a $100 Wyrd to improve the power on a $150 DAC?


 
  
 Wyrd is a lovely match with the $100 Modi.


----------



## leeperry

We are plain and simply listening to the PSU, most ppl seem to overlook that apparently.

I got half a dozen USB DAC's around, I just really like the design of the D3(AK4396>headamp output stage with hardware accelerated volume attenuation and 88.2 support).

The D3 sounds like crap off the mobo and pretty amazing off the Wyred, the AK4396 "miracle DAC" & LM723 myths are very real to my ears 

Anyway, I let it run overnight streaming 24/44.1 and it worked just fine......not sure wth is going on here, I'll try other DAC's today.

Still, WaveIO doesn't work through Wyred as Windows doesn't see it(tested on a USB2 controller) so this is not a transparent solution and can be a hit & miss.....no 88.2 off the D3 apparently (H87 chipset/W7SP1), I'll try other SR's


----------



## jcwc

beatswork said:


> So you bought a $100 Wyrd to improve the power on a $150 DAC?


 
  
 Though it might seem like a strange way to spend money, I'd say the $99 spent on the Wyrd is worth it. Consider that now you have a combo at $249 that would probably outperform any other standalone DAC similarly priced.


----------



## BeatsWork

jcwc said:


> Though it might seem like a strange way to spend money, I'd say the $99 spent on the Wyrd is worth it. Consider that now you have a combo at $249 that would probably outperform any other standalone DAC similarly priced.


 
  
  


leeperry said:


> We are plain and simply listening to the PSU, most ppl seem to overlook that apparently.
> 
> I got half a dozen USB DAC's around, I just really like the design of the D3(AK4396>headamp output stage with hardware accelerated volume attenuation and 88.2 support).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Valid point - and I was in no way criticizing just got a chuckle out of the cost of Wyrd relative to DAC but was not thinking in terms of Wyrd being a high quality power supply vs. "USB noise eliminator". So no more obsessive than a separate torroidal transformer  for non-USB powered DAC


----------



## jazzminded

There is nothing weird about WYRD. I received mine on Monday and did a few experiments with it. I hooked a y-cable between my amp and the 'audio' out on my pc, I did not play anything throught the computer, just the noise of the computer itself, after powering up the amp, the SNAPS, CRACKLES, POPS and HISSES filled the room and I quickly had to turn everything off. I then hooked everything up to the WYRD's input and output and powered up the amp, turned the volume to max and heard absolutely nothing, black background, nada, nothing, niente. I hit firefox to start it, still I heard nothing. I then opened my favourite media player and started up Tsuyoshi Yamamoto's, Midnight Sugar album and all I could hear, or perceive, was that talented gentleman sitting before me with his group performing in the soundstage that my speakers are capable of producing.

$99. it would be an audio bargain at quadruple the price. Yeah, and that ain't no Schiit!


----------



## wolfwalker78

Some of you guys have the worst luck with USB audio.  The only two probs I've had with mine are pops when seeking and manually changing track position in some audio software(which I suspect turning off power management would fix but that isn't happening on a 200+ watt CPU), and occasionally corrupted audio coming out of suspend which I suspect is just Windows being silly.
 I don't doubt a bit it helps and I'm glad it does, but darn what kind of boards are you folks running?  I've had a few that had some really bad implementations of USB, most recently was an Asrock Extreme 9 990FX unit that refused to have functional USB3 due to really, really bad drivers.  I'd think there would be a list of problematic USB(audio) motherboards by now.


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Has anyone tried using the Wyrd to power a usb to spdif convertor?  I assume it would work but the driver issues with a few dacs makes me nervous.  I have the M2Tech Hiface 2 if anyone has that or something similar and wants to give it a go.


----------



## leeperry

So I tried a few other DAC's and upsampling youtube video to 24/96 DS would always brick the schiit after a few mins, I remembered the owner of m2tech recommending USB2 NEC chipsets as a fix for funky USB problems so I installed one of those boards and so far so good!
  
 It's all using vanilla m$ drivers now and I would appear to be able to play 88.2/96 all I want, this said W7 is obsolete and my problem might also have to do with the XHCI/EHCI setting in the mobo BIOS bleh, IIRC I left it on the default "Smart Auto" setting, maybe not that smart after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll try to break the +5V pin of the USB cable going to the PC, it was reported to not work but ya never know ^^
  
 I've also never really bought the "AC phase" story over 230V where there would supposedly be a shriller sounding polarity but I'll try that too.


----------



## ogodei

> Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'll try to break the +5V pin of the USB cable going to the PC, it was reported to not work but ya never know ^^


 
  
 Wyrd requires power input from the USB line at all times, you can’t cut the power lines leading into it.


----------



## leeperry

Fair enough, I'm using a standalone USB2 NEC controller so we'll see whether that'd change anything.
  
 BTW, I haven't run extensive testing yet but when turning Wyred on I have to unplug and replug the D3 otherwise its internal relay keeps ticking and it doesn't mount. Is this a known issue? Not sure how it behaves after a reboot, will have to try that as I don't plan on ever turning Wyred off anyway.


----------



## jcwc

leeperry said:


> BTW, I haven't run extensive testing yet but when turning Wyred on I have to unplug and replug the D3 otherwise its internal relay keeps ticking and it doesn't mount. Is this a known issue? Not sure how it behaves after a reboot, will have to try that as I don't plan on ever turning Wyred off anyway.


 
  
 It might have to do with the Wyrd's design. With my Geek Out, whenever I turn on the Wyrd I too have to unplug and replug the GO in order to get it to initialize.


----------



## cooperpwc

^ I am guessing that the issue may be older computers. I am using Wyrd with a Surface Pro 2 running Windows 8.1. It works immediately with any DAC that I throw at it.


----------



## cooperpwc

Hmmm... my brief love affair with Modi is ending. Not that I am complaining; it is good value for $100. Tonally it sounds good, a tad mushy, a bit light on detail, but solid for its price.
  
 But... and the reason I am posting in this thread... my love affair with Wyrd burns strong. I am now using it with my old 2006 MicroDAC and it has made a material difference. I am firmly in the camp now that Wyrd does improve DAC sound quality by reducing jitter.
  
 Interestingly, I tried it with the Calyx M and it did reduce the substantial gap between the M's performance as a DAP and its poorer performance as a USB DAC/amp - reduced a fair bit actually but not completely eliminated, I am afraid. That is still impressive though. Kudos to the Wyrd.
  
 (And again... zero connectivity problems with any of the above. So I think that connectivity is not an issue with the Wyrd and a fully current PC.)


----------



## kodger

I have had no issues using Linux Mint operating system (instead of windows)using the Wyrd


----------



## ogodei

leeperry said:


> BTW, I haven't run extensive testing yet but when turning Wyred on I have to unplug and replug the D3 otherwise its internal relay keeps ticking and it doesn't mount. Is this a known issue? Not sure how it behaves after a reboot, will have to try that as I don't plan on ever turning Wyred off anyway.


 
  


jcwc said:


> It might have to do with the Wyrd's design. With my Geek Out, whenever I turn on the Wyrd I too have to unplug and replug the GO in order to get it to initialize.


 
  
 I think this has to do with the DACs design, not the Wyrd.  I've used it with 6 different DACs at this point.  A couple require the Wyrd to be already on and connected to the PC when the DAC boots up to register (show up in the PC sound options). One requires only the Wyrd be on and will register when you plug it into the PC afterward.  One doesn't care and will register itself once everything is connected.
  
 Pretty sure this is to do with power and data requirements in the DACSs.  The engineers never planned for people to place additional powered devices in the chain.


----------



## ogodei

cooperpwc said:


> Hmmm... *my brief love affair with Modi is ending. Not that I am complaining; it is good value for $100. Tonally it sounds good, a tad mushy, a bit light on detail, but solid for its price.*
> 
> But... and the reason I am posting in this thread... my love affair with Wyrd burns strong. I am now using it with my old 2006 MicroDAC and it has made a material difference. I am firmly in the camp now that Wyrd does improve DAC sound quality by reducing jitter.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have actually been grooving on the Modi \ Wyrd stack for a week or so.  Bought it mainly to play with, not seriously listen to but its a lot of fun with the right tracks.  Your description above is right on target for my experience.


----------



## cooperpwc

^ I agree that it is a fun DAC. My goal was to get Wyrd in house. Once I was spending all that money on shipping to China, I had to give Modi a spin. (I also got a couple of the PYST USB cables which I like.)
  
 No regrets at all.


----------



## BleaK

Got the Wyrd in today and set it up to try it with my Matrix x-sabre. And it won't connect with the x-sabre while I use a usb cable without ground/power lines. The X-sabre works directly in the PC with only signal USB cable, any idea why it won't work with the wyrd?
 Just tested it with my 5m printer cable, now it works. Still no idea why it won't work with the 5V cut. Others have been using the 5V cut usb cable from Wyrd to DAC. And the X-sabre clearly works with signal only. I am very confused right now
  
 PC -> Normal USB cable -> Wyrd -> Normal USB cable -> X-Sabre. Working as intented.
 PC -> Normal USB cable -> Wyrd -> 5V cut USB cable -> X-Sabre. Not working.
 PC -> 5V cut USB cable -> X-Sabre. Working.
  
 Any ideas?


----------



## ogodei

No idea particularly why, guess is the extra device ID in the chain prevents the PC from immediately recognizing what the DAC is? 

I got two DACs work in your second scenario by providing USB power to the DAC during the "handshake" then removing it immediately afterwards. The DACs could not be recognized with if the +5v line was cut but continued to work if I disconnected the line afterwards.


----------



## BleaK

ogodei said:


> I got two DACs work in your second scenario by providing USB power to the DAC during the "handshake" then removing it immediately afterwards. The DACs could not be recognized with if the +5v line was cut but continued to work if I disconnected the line afterwards.


 
 I see, any ideas how I can easy accomplish this? A friend made the cable for me and I don't have any particular skills in electronics


----------



## mcandmar

It may be the case the Wyrd isn't detecting a device being connected, you could try a resistor/LED across the +/- to see if that load will coax it into life.
  
 Or try connecting the - side only as it may need a ground reference.


----------



## ogodei

I used this cable and cut the +5v pin on the black PC lead.  You can simply pull out the +5v  lead with a pair of needle nose pliers (the cable costs $7 so who cares?). Other people have suggested placing tape over the pin but I could not get that to work & I would not trust the outcome much.  Plug in both cable ends, then once the handshake is done pull out the red one.
  
 Again just guessing this will work but its a cheap experiment.


----------



## BleaK

Alright I see what I can do, thanks for the help guys!


----------



## ogodei

mcandmar said:


> It may be the case the Wyrd isn't detecting a device being connected, you could try a resistor/LED across the +/- to see if that load will coax it into life.
> 
> *Or try connecting the - side only as it may need a ground reference.*


 
  
 Yes to this.  I was presuming BleaK was referring to cutting the +5v line only and leaving the - line in tact but I see he does not specify.  To try that, pull the +5v volt connector ONLY on an extra USB cable you have lying around and see if it works.
  
 The phantom load idea is valid but will require acquiring a transistor somewhere.


----------



## leeperry

You need to keep the ground intact in all cases IMHO, this is how a USB controller detects hotplug AFAIK. Otherwise yeah, you might need to put a dummy load on the schiit end: http://2channelaudio.blogspot.com/2013/01/audiophile-usb-yes-your-cable-makes.html


----------



## BleaK

I wrote some impressions over at the x-sabre thread, cross posting it here.
  


bleak said:


> Hehe I know that feeling! It might be the new toy effect or some sorts of bias (or my USB ports being horrible bad), but after some hours on this thing these is the _small_ changes I hear:
> 
> Bass: I always felt that the x-sabre had great impact and good timbre, but a sort of "blurpy" bass. Wyrd fixes some of that, leaving the good impact, but now with a bit more tone (e.x. you can hear better what a bass player plays).
> 
> ...


----------



## smileallways

Dear Head-Fi Gurus,
        I have Schitt Gungnir with USB input that works well with the Windows XP PC and foobar2000 software that I have. I have recently bought a Lenovo 64 bit I3 Flex 15.2 laptop.  This laptop does not recognize the Schitt Gungnir from the foobar after I install the Schitt USB drivers.  Schitt Technical support recommended getting external powered USB Hub. Will the Wyrd device help in this case?  Any advice is appreciated.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^+1, had a Modi/Wyrd combo, it was fantastic, the Wyrd lowered the noise floor, opened up the soundstage, improved imaging and tonality. Now use the Wyrd with an Üner Bifrost, the improvements are not as dramatic but stil easily discernible.


----------



## sludgeogre

Wyrd will fix the problem if that is indeed the issue. Be sure to double check that the device is selected properly in your sound settings before you purchase the Wyrd, though.


----------



## cooperpwc

@ckyr: Can you please edit the title of this thread to add "Wyrd". The Wyrd is a fine product and this has become the default thread for discussing it. It deserves better.
  
 How about: *Schiit Wyrd released - USB power isolator*.  (Saying both Decrapifier and isolator is redundant)
  
 Alternatively: *Schiit Wyrd released - USB power decrapifier*


----------



## ogodei

smileallways said:


> Dear Head-Fi Gurus,
> I have Schitt Gungnir with USB input that works well with the Windows XP PC and foobar2000 software that I have. I have recently bought a Lenovo 64 bit I3 Flex 15.2 laptop.  This laptop does not recognize the Schitt Gungnir from the foobar after I install the Schitt USB drivers.  Schitt Technical support recommended getting external powered USB Hub. Will the Wyrd device help in this case?  Any advice is appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,


 
  
 Hi smilealways:
  
 What operating system is on your new laptop, and does the laptop OS (not Foobar) recognize the Gungnir as a device after you install the drivers?  That's the first thing to get working.
  
 And while Wyrd may fix your issue you could always try a cheaper powered USB hub first.


----------



## smileallways

Hi Ogodei,
       OS is windows 8.1.When I install the Schitt USB driver, the installation program does not recognize the Gungnir as a DAC and the installation program terminates because it does not see the Gungnir on the USB port.   Any ideas are appreciated.
  
 I was told by Schitt support that Windows 8.1  has problem with USB port power management.  They recommended an external powered USB hub.  .
  
 Thanks,


----------



## ogodei

smileallways said:


> Hi Ogodei,
> OS is windows 8.1.When I install the Schitt USB driver, the installation program does not recognize the Gungnir as a DAC and the installation program terminates because it does not see the Gungnir on the USB port.   Any ideas are appreciated.
> 
> I was told by Schitt support that Windows 8.1  has problem with USB port power management.  They recommended an external powered USB hub.  .
> ...


 
  
 This doesn't sound like a power management issue but they could be correct, they have probably seen this more than me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Stupid stuff first: Make sure the Gungnir is powered on; Try a different USB cable and a different port on your machine if you haven't already (Make sure the cable is USB 2.0 compliant); Try adding the Gungnir to a different machine to see if that one recognizes it; Re-download the Gungnir driver (to make sure it isn't corrupted) and Uninstall \ reinstall it on your machine.
  
 Slightly more complicated stuff second: Update your chipset drivers from Dell (or verify that you already have the latest drivers installed); Follow the instructions at these sites to turn power management off:
  
              http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/how-fix-annoying-windows-usb-problem.htm

              http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1885037/windows-usb-devices-disconnect-reconnect-power-saving.html
  
 Most complicated stuff last:   Try the registry hack that Schiit provides here.
  
 If you want to try a powered USB hub be aware Schiit states that ANY powered USB hub will work, not just Wyrd, so save some $$ unless you want the extra features in the Wyrd. Make sure anything you get is USB 2.0 compliant but pretty much everything is these days.
  
 Much luck.


----------



## BeatsWork

smileallways said:


> Hi Ogodei,
> OS is windows 8.1.When I install the Schitt USB driver, the installation program does not recognize the Gungnir as a DAC and the installation program terminates because it does not see the Gungnir on the USB port.   Any ideas are appreciated.
> 
> I was told by Schitt support that Windows 8.1  has problem with USB port power management.  They recommended an external powered USB hub.  .
> ...


 

 Echo ogedei's comments with the caveat that I've found the vendor provided drivers are not always the fix. I.e. try latest provided Dell driver, chipset mfg provided, and default Windows drivers.  Also when you plug in Gungir and go to device manager do you see a ? with unrecognized device at least?


----------



## dmbr

My Xonar Essence One has intermittent crackling when using USB input (none via spdif so USB has to be the culprit), so I'm eyeing this....

However, the Xonar U7 has spdif out I believe, and runs for $100, too.

Would running my laptops audio through the U7 to the One via spdif make sense?


----------



## castleofargh

dmbr said:


> My Xonar Essence One has intermittent crackling when using USB input (none via spdif so USB has to be the culprit), so I'm eyeing this....
> 
> However, the Xonar U7 has spdif out I believe, and runs for $100, too.
> 
> Would running my laptops audio through the U7 to the One via spdif make sense?


 

 what kind of crackling? does it seem related to your hard drive working harder or your mouse moving or your fridge turning ON
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? is the music cutting out for an instant or is the crackling unrelated? did you try playing with the buffer length on foobar?
  
 using a 100$ card as a spdif converter seems like a stretch.


smileallways said:


> Hi Ogodei,
> OS is windows 8.1.When I install the Schitt USB driver, the installation program does not recognize the Gungnir as a DAC and the installation program terminates because it does not see the Gungnir on the USB port.   Any ideas are appreciated.
> 
> I was told by Schitt support that Windows 8.1  has problem with USB port power management.  They recommended an external powered USB hub.  .
> ...


 

 wow so the "solution", is usb hub+wyrd+DAC ...
 why not a powered hub and remove the wyrd? the result would be the same on most DACs.


----------



## dmbr

Thanks for the reply. I'll have to do some investigating, but the crackling occurs when no audio is playing too, and seems unrelated to any activity. Why do you ask?


----------



## castleofargh

dmbr said:


> Thanks for the reply. I'll have to do some investigating, but the crackling occurs when no audio is playing too, and seems unrelated to any activity. Why do you ask?


 

 to try and find out if it's some electrical stuff from the motherboard bleeding into the sound signal, or something plugged into the computer, or more of a setting/software/driver problem. if that happens without any music playing then my buffer idea is a fail
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## StefanJK

castleofargh said:


> wow so the "solution", is usb hub+wyrd+DAC ...
> why not a powered hub and remove the wyrd? the result would be the same on most DACs.


 
 I don't think anybody is suggesting usb hub+wyrd.  I think the question is some version of 'generic usb hub' or 'wyrd' or something else.


----------



## cooperpwc

I have had zero problems with Windows 8.1 and Wyrd. Wyrd is invisible to the OS with every DAC that I have tried it with. FYI YMMV.


----------



## cooperpwc

castleofargh said:


> why not a powered hub and remove the wyrd? the result would be the same on most DACs.


 
  
 I think that you should try the Wyrd before jumping to such conclusions. In my experience the USB isolation, linear power supply and reclocking can bring material, even significant, improvements.


----------



## thegunner100

Wyrd works fine with my desktop running windows 7 and my surface pro 1 with windows 8.1.


----------



## castleofargh

cooperpwc said:


> castleofargh said:
> 
> 
> > why not a powered hub and remove the wyrd? the result would be the same on most DACs.
> ...


 

 I'm all for trying new stuff, but put yourself in my shoes, I'm not gonna spend 100$ on something I think I don't need. it's a problem fixer for people who think they have one. I can understand the desire to get it as usb isn't the optimum audio stream and the hope of improving anything in it can be tempting. and I'm sure it is actually really useful to some people with some specific equipment who were having a hard time.
 but I don't feel like I'm one of those, I don't believe jitter matters much in today's systems, and when it does, it's most likely to be below -80db in the audible range and maybe start affecting some high trebles more(as obviously jitter will affect shorter waves more). but those are low level signals in my music, I never have any loud 18khz for example. it's always a good 25 to 50db lower than the mids, then you count my equal loudness contour making me a lot less sensitive to trebles than I am to mids, and my headphones finish the job of putting them down with another roll off. so we're most likely back to something well below -80db(and I really don't pretend that I can hear that low when music is playing between 0 and -10db).
  
 about noise coming from the usb power or the power itself not being 5V, well I guess there is some luck involved here sadly, as it's hard to guess if a computer will be fine just by looking at the specs. but if I was concerned about that, I wouldn't have bought a usb powered DAC. it's as simple as that.
 just like people who are paranoid about jitter should get a real asynchronous DAC, or simply a good soundcard with a nice optical out. those are real concrete solutions to real concrete "possible" problems. I would think that people concerned by those stuff would have already done all that.


----------



## hekeli

cooperpwc said:


> In my experience the USB isolation


 
  
 How exactly has this anything to do USB isolation? What you are possibly referering to as "isolation" works exactly the same with ANY HUB. There is still a ground connection to the computer, even with Wyrd.


----------



## firev1

dmdr Stereophile's review indicated already that your best bet would be to get a low jitter SPDIF solution if you would wish to get the most out of your Essence One since the USB input measurements looks to me like crap altogether, even $49 usb DACs do better than that.
  
 To the rest,I really don't understand the need to sh1t all over the Schiit. If it works than great for you, if it does not get a refund or troubleshoot what went wrong first. There is no need for trolls to be around the thread, take that attitude somewhere else. 
  
 Anyways, I have been using the product for a while and yes it works, it does improve the performance of some stuff you plug it into. The ODAC receives some improvement subjective and in measurements. To the """"objective"""" crowd I doubt it would even matter since said improvements are under the -120dbFS line.

  
  
 My only quibble, I know it full well before buying it, that it is NOT an isolator(Schiit's product page still puts a 1 liner with the word "Isolator" in it" and does next to nothing to improve a ground loop situation. But the part of lower jitter reclocking and better PSU, I think it does the job.


----------



## dmbr

firev1 said:


> dmdr Stereophile's review indicated already that your best bet would be to get a low jitter SPDIF solution if you would wish to get the most out of your Essence One since the USB input measurements looks to me like crap altogether, even $49 usb DACs do better than that.
> 
> To the rest,I really don't understand the need to sh1t all over the Schiit. If it works than great for you, if it does not get a refund or troubleshoot what went wrong first. There is no need for trolls to be around the thread, take that attitude somewhere else.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the reply.

Pardon my noobishness, but what might be an example of a "low jitter spdif solution"?


----------



## smileallways

Hi, 
    Thanks for the suggestions.  I get a USB device not recognized when I plug in  the DAC to the USB port. I don't want to touch the registry.  Is getting the external powered DAC, the best option?


----------



## BeatsWork

smileallways said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the suggestions.  I get a USB device not recognized when I plug in  the DAC to the USB port. I don't want to touch the registry.  Is getting the external powered DAC, the best option?


 

 One other suggestion. Download Schiit USB driver file. Unzip it. Go to unrecognized device in Device manager. Right click and there should be option to install driver. Select "Choose my own" not automatically search for best driver. Point towards directory where you unzipped driver. May need to drill down to folder containing   xxxxx.inf file. Sorry not in front of PC so directions are off the top of my head. If that fails then yeah I'd try cheap powered USB hub 1st to see if this resolves (and yes I do own a Wyrd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## ogodei

dmbr said:


> Thanks so much for the reply.
> 
> Pardon my noobishness, but what might be an example of a "low jitter spdif solution"?


 
  
 Something like the Off Ramp.
  
 You're willing to pay twice the cost of your DAC for a converter to feed it the signal, right?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

castleofargh said:


> I'm all for trying new stuff, but put yourself in my shoes, I'm not gonna spend 100$ on something I think I don't need. it's a problem fixer for people who think they have one. I can understand the desire to get it as usb isn't the optimum audio stream and the hope of improving anything in it can be tempting. and I'm sure it is actually really useful to some people with some specific equipment who were having a hard time.
> but I don't feel like I'm one of those, I don't believe jitter matters much in today's systems, and when it does, it's most likely to be below -80db in the audible range and maybe start affecting some high trebles more(as obviously jitter will affect shorter waves more). but those are low level signals in my music, I never have any loud 18khz for example. it's always a good 25 to 50db lower than the mids, then you count my equal loudness contour making me a lot less sensitive to trebles than I am to mids, and my headphones finish the job of putting them down with another roll off. so we're most likely back to something well below -80db(and I really don't pretend that I can hear that low when music is playing between 0 and -10db).
> 
> about noise coming from the usb power or the power itself not being 5V, well I guess there is some luck involved here sadly, as it's hard to guess if a computer will be fine just by looking at the specs. but if I was concerned about that, I wouldn't have bought a usb powered DAC. it's as simple as that.
> just like people who are paranoid about jitter should get a real asynchronous DAC, or simply a good soundcard with a nice optical out. those are real concrete solutions to real concrete "possible" problems. I would think that people concerned by those stuff would have already done all that.




If you have no interest in the Wyrd, trying the Wyrd, confirming the findings of several others on this Thread that the Wyrd does have a positive sonic impact, then why are you here?


----------



## firev1

dmbr said:


> Thanks so much for the reply.
> 
> Pardon my noobishness, but what might be an example of a "low jitter spdif solution"?




EBay up "cm6631a SPDIF" and check out the stuff offered. Low jitter does not really have to break the bank.There are a couple of offerings that would be pretty good.


----------



## dmbr

firev1 said:


> EBay up "cm6631a SPDIF" and check out the stuff offered. Low jitter does not really have to break the bank.There are a couple of offerings that would be pretty good.


 Thank you!

Would you guys think this would be an ok buy?

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151169884325


----------



## castleofargh

wildcatsare1 said:


> If you have no interest in the Wyrd, trying the Wyrd, confirming the findings of several others on this Thread that the Wyrd does have a positive sonic impact, then why are you here?


 
 well I never tried a SR-009 and never plan to buy one, never heard how jitter sounds like, don't really believe in aliens fighting zombies...  doesn't stop me from being interested/curious about those.
  
 I find strange how I seem to be the bad guy here. do all topic discussions need to be about one happy guy that congratulates an other happy guy for becoming a member of the "I own that stuff" family? aren't you curious about what it does, how it does it, what that changes for the DAC components that most likely were supposed to do the exact same thing later in the chain?
  
 and as a pure philosophical question, would me getting one and then crap all over it in the topic, be a more acceptable situation than me having doubts while not owning one? because I don't find interesting to pay 100$ for a usb clock, but 100$ for freedom of speech is something I might consider worthwhile. how does it work? do I have to make a selfie with the wyrd and the newspaper of the day when I receive it, and then I get a free pass on anything I want to say?
 on some topics we can discuss pros and cons, try to understand things, have people who explain why they think a product isn't good a and another makes more sense. and people don't burn them. we all talk for a few pages, give opinions, and that's all there is to it. sometimes we learn a few stuff on the road, sometimes we don't. but some other topics have to turn into good vs evil, side taking and hate of the "enemy" for some reasons.
  
  if reclocking 2times is better than 1, or 3 times better than 2 when using asynchronous DAC, would 4times make it even better? would having one good clock at the computer side make it all meaningless? are the effect the same on an asynchronous and predictive USB DAC? and of course does any of this really matter in the 0 to -80db of music? I'm having loads of questions about that thing. yes I find this topic interesting and not so much the wyrd itself.
 I could probably take this to the science section topic or even hydrogen, but there it would probably be labeled as a useless thing in the first 5answers. so I stick around here and hope for someone with both the wyrd and some technical background, or tools for analysis or just someone with a hypothesis on what it does and how that affects the signal.


----------



## ogodei

I started looking at these last night, seems like performance and OS compatibility will be somewhat driver specific for these.  There is undoubtedly another thread around here discussing the best hardware for this purpose.
  
 And BTW that same hardware can be had for cheaper (with shipping ) from Amazon here if you are located in the U.S.


----------



## BeatsWork

dmbr said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Would you guys think this would be an ok buy?
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151169884325


 

 No experience with Topping or how much support you can obtain but just pointing out that this particular seller is a Trading Company selling everything from audio gear to women's lingerie so I would anticipate zero technical support on back end. For that reason alone might be worth looking at vendor focused on audio. Very quick search pulled up this DIY version which looks pretty slick 32-isolated-32bit-384khz-usb-to-i2sspdif-cm6631a-pcb-for-es9018-ak4399-pcm1794 just as an example.


----------



## BeatsWork

castleofargh said:


> well I never tried a SR-009 and never plan to buy one, never heard how jitter sounds like, don't really believe in aliens fighting zombies...  doesn't stop me from being interested/curious about those.
> 
> I find strange how I seem to be the bad guy here. do all topic discussions need to be about one happy guy that congratulates an other happy guy for becoming a member of the "I own that stuff" family? aren't you curious about what it does, how it does it, what that changes for the DAC components that most likely were supposed to do the exact same thing later in the chain?
> 
> ...


 
 Please take this in the spirit of constructive feedback not attempt to start flame war 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Personally I greatly appreciate anyone who approaches investments with a healthy dose of skepticism and asks probative questions, seeks to add to discussion with salient research and experience, and does so in the spirit of furthering the hobby.  I am turned off by anyone trying to "push" an agenda whether that's promoting or bashing a particular product, tweak, format etc. etc.
  
 What I believe other posters are trying to tell you is that intended or not you're coming across as very confrontational and tending towards the latter.  It's not that you are skeptic but rather how you're choosing to present your doubts.
  
 Bear in mind we're all at different points in our journey and ability to budget for tweaks.  In context of my overall investment the cost of Wyrd was trivial and I bought it out of curiosity not expectation. Same reason I bought a Stoner UD120. Absolutely no use for it; it just piqued my curiosity.  So if you feel someone is trying to "push" the Wyrd on anyone with a modest budget then by all means I would call them on that but I haven't seen anyone doing that here.
  
 Again, I'm just trying to give you candid and constructive feedback not pick a fight


----------



## BeatsWork

ogodei said:


> I started looking at these last night, seems like performance and OS compatibility will be somewhat driver specific for these.  There is undoubtedly another thread around here discussing the best hardware for this purpose.
> 
> And BTW that same hardware can be had for cheaper (with shipping ) from Amazon here if you are located in the U.S.


 
  
 Good lord yes.  In theory USB is a closely defined standard and everything should play nice together but it doesn't. Let's look at the variables:
  

Chipset in PC
Chipset in DAC
OS
Power saving features
Driver (OEM, PC maker, Windows)
Firmware updates for dedicated USB cards
Choice of media player
WASAPI, ASIO ....
(not even going to touch cables)
  
 Jplay is just a tad too minimalistic for my taste but it even has a mode which basically shuts down all PC functions not essential to audio playback which might affect audio quality. Jplay site is an interesting read if you have the time. This is an extreme product but they go down to level of explaining that even while USB is capable of bit perfect transmission that there is a practical limitation on minimum number of bytes that can be sent in real time hence at least at theoretical level always potential for jitter. Like I said too extreme a solution for me but interesting ....


----------



## castleofargh

> Originally Posted by *BeatsWork* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Please take this in the spirit of constructive feedback not attempt to start flame war
> 
> ...


 
 no problem, I take criticism very well, more so when I know it's true. I never really mean to antagonize anybody, but I've been known to have that effect sometimes on forums. IRL I never have a serious argument with someone, it must have to do with the way I write.
 in fact my overly long posts are usually me trying to be very thorough as a mean to avoid being misunderstood. but that doesn't seem to work all that well
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 so if people felt hurt by what I wrote before, I apologies. be sure that I have no more taste for e-fights than I have for celine dion.
 that being said I hope people make a clear difference between what they are and what they own, and don't take as a personal attack any criticism about any product they ever owned. because that would make talking about gears really complicated.
 and I'm still looking for anybody who can to tell me more about what effects the wyrd has on different types of USB DACs(predictive/asynchronous/usb powered/or not).


----------



## smileallways

Hi,
    Thanks for your suggestion. I tried it.  The driver in the driver directory is called "CMUACWO.sys".   I couldn't find any file called .inf in the directory. I tried install this driver using the option you mentioned.  I got the message  the correct driver is already installed.  Error for the USB device states that "Port Reset Failed". Any thoughts are appreciated.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## firev1

castleofargh said:


> TL


 
 You could start with a better tone first rather than call us out as circle jerks while pooing all over the thread. Well yeah it seems you should go back to SS or Hydrogenaudio since it seems you are little up for discussion given your "objective" predisposition. Schiit for one never marketed the device with any promises on whether it actually does anything at all. Besides, this is the wrong avenue to bring up philosophical BS, there are other avenues for that. So what would getting the Wyrd get you? If you had a problem and it does sh1t for it, say it here so others would know, "Hey, I have the same problem and the Wyrd does not seem like it would do anything for it."
  
 As for objective data on the Wyrd, it certainly works on whatever TE7022 based implementation I have tested it on in terms of measurements. The reclocking and extra clean power does help to bring down jitter and in an AudioGD DAC, changed the distortion spectrum(without lowering the value) altogether. I suspect some asynchronous implementations might benefit in jitter but then again, we are talking below -120dbFS. As for where I felt subjectively it did next to nothing, it was with the EMU0404 but while testing it with the ODAC, I heard a sense of quicker transients and less muddiness overall. 
  
 Coming up, I'm gonna see what I can get to see with the Wyrd and the UD120. Their async implementation on the UD110 ain't the most solid with relatively higher low freq jitter and also the DAC itself is not completely stable at low signal levels.
  
 On that CM6631A, Archimago has a fantastic article on the product and its use, read it thoroughly. http://archimago.blogspot.sg/2013/03/measurements-adaptive-aune-x1.html


----------



## castleofargh

thanks


----------



## cooperpwc

firev1 said:


> Coming up, I'm gonna see what I can get to see with the Wyrd and the UD120.


 
  
 I thought that there was a noticeable improvement with the UD120. It was not as great however as with USB Monica, a TDA1545A based NOS DAC. That has returned to life and is now my default DAC with the GS-X mk2 and HD800. (Actually with all my headphones at home.) I think it is fair to say that the worse your DAC handles USB jitter, the greater the potential improvement from putting Wyrd in the chain. (The clean power almost certainly helps too; I cannot say how much of the improvement is attributable to which influence.)


----------



## Matias

Also having an Aqvox USB power supply I can guess that the major improvement is by removing the high frequency noise out. Also because in theory USB is currently transmitted in async mode, meaning it is received in the DAC, stored in a buffer, reclocked and sent to the DAC section, so that the jitter on the USB interface itself shouldn't matter much IMO. Would be interesting to have measurements of both.


----------



## BeatsWork

matias said:


> Also having an Aqvox USB power supply I can guess that the major improvement is by removing the high frequency noise out. Also because in theory USB is currently transmitted in async mode, meaning it is received in the DAC, stored in a buffer, reclocked and sent to the DAC section, so that the jitter on the USB interface itself shouldn't matter much IMO. Would be interesting to have measurements of both.


 
 The Wyrd is really doing two distinct things. Providing clean power and re clocking. The former is of clear value if you are having issues with USB noise. And I mean noise as in - you move the mouse and can hear strange noises. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the 2nd benefit is that even if DAC plugs in to the wall some USB card implementations still use power from USB cable to power USB interface. Pretty sure the Gunghir falls in that category. So even if not a "USB Powered DAC" crappy power from PC could still be a factor.


----------



## Matias

The thing is that, in my experience, even DACs with independent power supply and in a system without mouse noises still benefit from receiving clean USB power.


----------



## smileallways

Hi USB gurus,
    Any suggestions for me about Schitt DAC not being recognized as a USB device on a 64 bit I3 based windows 8.1 lenovo laptop ? I had given the error message in the previous post. I have tried to force it to take the new driver. That also does not seem to work.   Any suggestions are appreciated.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## firev1

Try uninstalling other audio drivers and even your usb root hub via Device manager if possible.


----------



## FraGGleR

Got a Wyrd in between my Win 8.1 tablet and my Nuforce HDP.  Cleared up the occasional mouse noise, and seems to have blackened the background and focused the sound a bit better.  Then again I recently cleaned the wax out of my ears, so it could all be imagined (except the mouse noise, I am sure that it is better now).


----------



## ogodei

fraggler said:


> Got a Wyrd in between my Win 8.1 tablet and my Nuforce HDP.  Cleared up the occasional mouse noise, and seems to have blackened the background and focused the sound a bit better.  Then again I recently cleaned the wax out of my ears, so it could all be imagined (except the mouse noise, I am sure that it is better now).


 
  
 Mouse noise, yes.
  
 Blackened background...   Hmmm.


----------



## john57

Has anyone noticed if this will work up to DSD256 for sure?


----------



## ogodei

If you can actually point me to a DSD256 track I will try it.


----------



## john57

https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation
  
 You just may have to sigh up with a free account otherwise all the samples are free.


----------



## fabiobueno

I got a Wyrd to see if it would have any effect on my odac... I always thought the odac sounded almost the same as my laptop onboard realtek, despite people telling me it should be a lot better...
  
 So I put the Wyrd between the odac and the laptop... and how it sounded?
  
 TERRIBLE.
  
 Lots of static noise over the sounds. It was awful. Made music unlistenable,
  
 So I tried another USB port. NOW the sound was very clean! And guess what... It really sounded like the treble was smoother and imaging was better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It was a good step up in my opinion!
  
 It's weird because my laptop have 3 usb ports, and without the Wyrd all of them sound just the same. With the Wyrd, one specific port sounds awesome, and the other 2 sounds likes crap, with lots of noise over the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Being a programmer with a degree in computer engineering, I'd say... this little box really puzzles me.
  
 Maybe the usb ports are so crap that Wyrd in fact intensifies their crappiness? Also, with the wyrd the music skips more often if the computer is too busy. It's as if the odac suddenly became over-sensitive. Maybe it is just pissed off because I'm hooking it to Schiit products 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But it made the odac sound better (or at least was a very effective placebo lol), so I don't really care. Even if it didn't, I'd still use it, as it also works as a handy on/off switch for the odac.


----------



## ogodei

john57 said:


> https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation
> 
> You just may have to sigh up with a free account otherwise all the samples are free.


 
  
 Oops!  I don't have a quad-rate DSD DAC anymore, the Oppo HA 1 could do it, all the ones I have now are double rate.
  
 I can tell you that if I try to stream two DSD 128 streams simultaneously over USB it starts cutting out, but that is with or without the Wyrd in the chain.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Are people having more success with Wyrd when used with Windows rather than Mac (OS X)? Seems like that's the case, but too little data for me.


----------



## firev1

Re: Noticeable improvement with the UD120, seems like not all Async applications are created equal. The Wyrd does not do sh1t with the Geek IEM but does some voodoo with the UD120


----------



## conquerator2

The Wyrd is a god send to my sometimes noisy and hummy USB power. Dead silent background now. Thank you Schiit


----------



## Wildcatsare1

birdmanofct said:


> Are people having more success with Wyrd when used with Windows rather than Mac (OS X)? Seems like that's the case, but too little data for me.




I now have both a MacBook Pro and an ASUS, the difference is much more aparent with the ASUS than the Apple, though it's still there.


----------



## kman1211

I just ordered the Wyrd. I've been having issues with sudden cutting out of sound at times, the occasional crackle or pop, and some reason when I set my HRT Music Streamer II+ to 24/96k a loud shrieking can happen on playback on rare occasions. These issues vary in how common they are dependent on the computer(less common on laptop than desktop), so it seems like a power issue. I'm hoping all these issues will be fixed and if the sound quality manages to improve all the better.


----------



## Xoen

kman1211 said:


> I just ordered the Wyrd. I've been having issues with sudden cutting out of sound at times, the occasional crackle or pop, and some reason when I set my HRT Music Streamer II+ to 24/96k a loud shrieking can happen on playback on rare occasions. These issues vary in how common they are dependent on the computer(less common on laptop than desktop), so it seems like a power issue. I'm hoping all these issues will be fixed and if the sound quality manages to improve all the better.


 
 I'm having that problem, too, with my Schiit Bifrost.  I was a little concerned about it so I went and bought me the Wyrd as well in hopes it'll remedy this issue.   I highly doubt that it'll improve sound quality at all.


----------



## kman1211

xoen said:


> I'm having that problem, too, with my Schiit Bifrost.  I was a little concerned about it so I went and bought me the Wyrd as well in hopes it'll remedy this issue.   I highly doubt that it'll improve sound quality at all.


 
 USB audio and USB in general is definitely fickle, the shrieking doesn't happen when set at 24/48k and below thankfully so I have it set there for now. I was told by someone I really trust when it comes high fidelity audio that it makes some sound quality improvement, hopefully I find it to be true. Let's hope it fixes the USB issues as that's the main reason I got the device.


----------



## DejanM

I bought one and I was happy with the improvement on my Win7 desktop system. Then I bought another one for my Mac Mini source.
  
 By the way - try Shiit USB cable ... it is also excellent value.


----------



## Xoen

Yeah. I bought the Schiit USB cables along with the Wyrd as well. Really great value.  I highly doubt it'll improve sound quality at all but it'll look great with the setup.


----------



## kman1211

Well I got the Wyrd today. I noticed an immediate sound quality improvement, it became cleaner, more spacious, smoother, and less grainy are the first things I noticed. No more irritated ears on the HD 600 or K712.


----------



## Krutsch

xoen said:


> Yeah. I bought the Schiit USB cables along with the Wyrd as well. Really great value.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Watch out for the LEDs ... they are like Xenon searchlights. I ended up putting round pieces of semi-opaque tape over them, it was that bright.


----------



## Xoen

Nah lol.  Bright LED's never bothered me that much.  In fact, I always liked it when they were bright.  Makes it look pretty cool with my setup.


----------



## Kiwikat

I've spent the evening listening to the Wyrd I got for Christmas and I've not gotten any USB weirdness from my Macbook Pro, so it seems it is doing its intended job. (woohoo!)  I am trying to convince myself that it isn't making any noticeable changes to the sound, but as several others have reported, I've noticed slightly "boomier" and harder hitting bass coming from my LCD-X's.  I don't know if there's really any other change at this point.  I will give myself a few more days listening with the Wyrd and then I'll take it out and see if I notice any other differences in the sound signature.
  
 Aside: The tiny thing looks kind of ridiculous sitting on top of the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack...


----------



## Xoen

kiwikat said:


> I've spent the evening listening to the Wyrd I got for Christmas and I've not gotten any USB weirdness from my Macbook Pro, so it seems it is doing its intended job. (woohoo!)  I am trying to convince myself that it isn't making any noticeable changes to the sound, but as several others have reported, I've noticed slightly "boomier" and harder hitting bass coming from my LCD-X's.  I don't know if there's really any other change at this point.  I will give myself a few more days listening with the Wyrd and then I'll take it out and see if I notice any other differences in the sound signature.
> 
> *Aside: The tiny thing looks kind of ridiculous sitting on top of the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack...*


 
 Lol is that a bad thing?    
  
 Mine's supposed to come in tomorrow.  You're not the first person claiming that you're noticing an 'improve' sound quality from the Wyrd linked with your setup.  It's starting to make me curious.  I only needed it because I have 'hiccuping' issues with my Bifrost, like it would cut off for about 1 second and then come back on.  Sometimes it would just cut off overall.  So I figured the Wyrd would help remedy this problem.  Rare occurence though but would be nice to have.


----------



## kman1211

xoen said:


> Lol is that a bad thing?
> 
> Mine's supposed to come in tomorrow.  You're not the first person claiming that you're noticing an 'improve' sound quality from the Wyrd linked with your setup.  It's starting to make me curious.  I only needed it because I have 'hiccuping' issues with my Bifrost, like it would cut off for about 1 second and then come back on.  Sometimes it would just cut off overall.  So I figured the Wyrd would help remedy this problem.  Rare occurence though but would be nice to have.




It did fix my issues with the sound skipping, crackling, popping, etc. so it should fix those issues. Not sure if the sound quality differences will be as drastic as they are on a usb powered dac though. Makes me curious what other power related components may do to my system.


----------



## Xoen

kman1211 said:


> It did fix my issues with the sound skipping, crackling, popping, etc. so it should fix those issues. Not sure if the sound quality differences will be as drastic as they are on a usb powered dac though. Makes me curious what other power related components may do to my system.


 
 That's good to know!  Thanks!  
  
 Sound-wise, I think it's good not to expect much difference, if any at all though not trying to doubt those that claim they do, but I guess personally I'll have to hear it for myself.


----------



## Audiotic

mustelanivalis said:


> Running the Wyrd now on 9 VDC for some time (230 VAC -> 9 VDC adapter) and no issues encountered. I use the Wyrd mainly to power my DragonFly so it becomes independent from the computer's noisy power-supply. The DragonFly only consumes little power however...


 

 9VDC? But the Wyrd uses an AC adapter. How you do that?


----------



## Krutsch

kman1211 said:


> *It did fix my issues with the sound skipping, crackling, popping, etc. so it should fix those issues*. Not sure if the sound quality differences will be as drastic as they are on a usb powered dac though. Makes me curious what other power related components may do to my system.


 
  
 Maybe... for me, fixing these issues had a lot more to do with understanding what devices are on each USB controller and then ensuring that my DAC was on a dedicated controller. Computers vary quite a bit, but in my case I am using a headless 2009 Mac Mini as a dedicated music server; that machine has three separate USB controllers and they support internal devices (e.g. bluetooth, IR receiver), as well as an external USB hard drive.
  
 I had periodic pops/crackles/screeches that only came to end when I rearranged the connected USB devices to ensure that the DAC was on a dedicated controller, as well as ensuring that the USB HDD was also on a dedicated controller.
  
 After I did all of that, naturally, UPS got around to delivering the Wyrd I had ordered. I plugged it in, and still use it, but the jury is out for me on whether it's doing anything to improve my system. I am into the whole clean power thing, however, and the engineering seems reasonable (i.e. replacing the computer's 5V USB lead with a regulated, linear supply provided by the Wyrd), so why not?


----------



## Xoen

My Schiit Wyrd finally came in. The 'hiccuping' issues has finally been fixed even though it was a rare occurrence.  As for sound quality improvements, I'll get back to that.


----------



## Krutsch

xoen said:


> My Schiit Wyrd finally came in. The 'hiccuping' issues has finally been fixed even though it was a rare occurrence.  As for sound quality improvements, I'll get back to that.


 
  
 Nice looking rig (although the glass does expose more cable mess  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) what's that box on top of what looks like a USB hub?


----------



## Xoen

krutsch said:


> Nice looking rig (although the glass does expose more cable mess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks!  Lol please excuse the cable mess!  Haven't got around to fixing it ever since the Wyrd came in.  I was pretty excited with receiving the Wyrd lol.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Anyways, that 'little' box is actually my DTS decoder device that's not really plugged into anything at the moment.  It was normally used to convert the DTS signal from my TV/PS4 into the RCA outs to my old DAC (Aune T1 with Amperex 7308 tube) before I had my Bifrost.  Now it's just kinda sitting there collecting dust.  lol


----------



## MustelaNivalis

audiotic said:


> 9VDC? But the Wyrd uses an AC adapter. How you do that?


 
 Just use a plug that fits and connect it.
  
 The Wyrd has a bridge rectifier at its power input. Normally there will be a 6 V RMS sine wave feeding the Wyrd. This sine wave has a peak value of approx 9 V. So by applying 9 VDC, only one path of the rectifier will conduct and charge the capacitor behind it to about the same voltage. The only possible issue is the power dissipation in the rectifier. In the original situation there are 60 Hz pulses divided over the 2 rectifier paths but when you apply 9 VDC there is a constant current through only one path. Like I said before, my DragonFly does not need a lot of current. The rectifier seems to be a bit overdimensioned too. Maybe this helps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge.


----------



## Audiotic

mustelanivalis said:


> Just use a plug that fits and connect it.
> 
> The Wyrd has a bridge rectifier at its power input. Normally there will be a 6 V RMS sine wave feeding the Wyrd. This sine wave has a peak value of approx 9 V. So by applying 9 VDC, only one path of the rectifier will conduct and charge the capacitor behind it to about the same voltage. The only possible issue is the power dissipation in the rectifier. In the original situation there are 60 Hz pulses divided over the 2 rectifier paths but when you apply 9 VDC there is a constant current through only one path. Like I said before, my DragonFly does not need a lot of current. The rectifier seems to be a bit overdimensioned too. Maybe this helps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge.


 

 Wow, that means I can further improve as I have an unused (!) 9V KingRex PS Mk2 !! I'll order this little magic box now (luckily we have Schiit-Europe nowadays!)


----------



## Angelbelow

kman1211 said:


> It did fix my issues with the sound skipping, crackling, popping, etc. so it should fix those issues. Not sure if the sound quality differences will be as drastic as they are on a usb powered dac though. Makes me curious what other power related components may do to my system.


 
  
 Good to know, looking into this product because I get skipping and cracking once in a while.


----------



## FredrikT92

Will this fix problems for people with possibly ground loop problems?
 I have a noise when playing a little higher volumes, and it changes when using the keyboard or mice.
 Its kinda annyoing with ambient music...


----------



## conquerator2

fredrikt92 said:


> Will this fix problems for people with possibly ground loop problems?
> I have a noise when playing a little higher volumes, and it changes when using the keyboard or mice.
> Its kinda annyoing with ambient music...


 
 I had the exact same issue and that was why I bought the Wyrd in part.
 In theory, it should not help much with that but in practice [and my case] it reduced the noise significantly.
 Say, before I could hear it clearly most of the time when my PC was doing something, from browsing mail, to HDD work and mouse scrolling. With the Wyrd, I have to strain really hard to hear it so it went from a 'sorta annoying' to 'very faint/hardly hearable'
 Not sure why or how it helps nor can I guarantee you it mirror my success but if you can get it around MSRP, I think it would be worth a shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It is small, non-obtrusive and I also find it to enhance bass response and improve SQ slightly [which I suspect has to do with the much lessened noise loop]


----------



## BeatsWork

fredrikt92 said:


> Will this fix problems for people with possibly ground loop problems?
> I have a noise when playing a little higher volumes, and it changes when using the keyboard or mice.
> Its kinda annyoing with ambient music...


 

 Did for me. Mouse issue was very specific. Moving cursor across blank space on desktop caused no issue. Moving cursor over icon created a weird little blurping noise.  WYRD resolved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Overall SQ improvement? Not that I noticed but already running PC and audio gear through separate power conditioners as my AC is crap. I can literally watch all the lights in my house dim for minutes at a time.


----------



## Zojokkeli

I also didn't notice any SQ improvements, but Wyrd did fix the odd cracks and blurbs my custom built gaming monster added to music.


----------



## lamode

> A sticker of US$99 means you can easily find out for yourself.


 
  
 Or you could just send me a check for $89 and save yourself $10


----------



## plonter

I am considering getting this just so I can sleep at night   .  If I understand correclty, it supplies its own power to the dac (e.g totally ignoring the pc's own usb power)  just like an ac powered hub?


----------



## Xoen

plonter said:


> I am considering getting this just so I can sleep at night   .  If I understand correclty, it supplies its own power to the dac (e.g totally ignoring the pc's own usb power)  just like an ac powered hub?


 Yes, and cleans that signal to a DAC.


----------



## Pedro83

Anyone using the Wyrd with either of the Meridian Explorers? 
  
 I should have the combo by late next week and will post my findings but would like to hear from any current owners. 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## plonter

pedro83 said:


> Anyone using the Wyrd with either of the Meridian Explorers?
> 
> I should have the combo by late next week and will post my findings but would like to hear from any current owners.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Exactly the setup I am planning


----------



## plonter

Hey guys, aren't you afraid that the wyrd will "mess" with the sound?  e.g add coloration?    Should I worry about that?


----------



## Pedro83

plonter said:


> Hey guys, aren't you afraid that the wyrd will "mess" with the sound?  e.g add coloration?    Should I worry about that?


 
 There are a surprising number of reviews online, including on amazing.co.uk stating the explorer 1 with the iFi USB power is transformed into a 2k DAC. better separation, more defined bass and more darkness in the background, also voices having more presence. I haven't read any negative reviews whatsoever. 
  
 I wouldn't worry, my plan is to use the Explorer 2 for a week, then introduce the Wyrd for a week, then take it away and see how I feel about it. 
  
 In the unlikely event the wyrd for whatever reason makes my system sound worse, i'll sell it on at a small loss. But I cannot see this being the case. In which case i'd take a punt on the iFi USB power. 
  
 I believe the only difference between the Schiit Wyrd and the iFi USB power is that the iFi doesn't re-clock the data. Although I could be wrong. 
  
 I will report how I get on here. 
  
 My system when everything arrives next week - FYI MBA, Audirvana, Explorer2, Wyrd into IE800's.


----------



## Xoen

plonter said:


> Hey guys, aren't you afraid that the wyrd will "mess" with the sound?  e.g add coloration?    Should I worry about that?


 
 Nope.  The Wyrd did not "improve" or change anything in the sound quality in my system.  All it did was prevent the "hiccuping" issues I've had with my laptop source to my DAC where the sound would cut off for one second then come back on.  Also made my amp even quieter, too, so no noise artifacts of any sort.  Just clean smooth sound.
  
  If it were to add coloration, I can imagine Schiit would have a mention about that somewhere in the description.  Though others have claimed that the Wyrd improved the sound, I won't doubt them about that.  I personally didn't hear a change in SQ at all in my system.  Just an overall quieter setup.


----------



## Pedro83

If your DAC is USB BUS powered, you may get an audible improvement, there is good grounds why a better 5v supply would yield better sounds than a noisy 5v USB computer supply. There are however many factors involved, not to mention how revealing your system is.


----------



## Pedro83

http://www.amazon.co.uk/iFi-Micro-iUSB-Power-Supply/dp/B00AU07NZA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1421002017&sr=8-3&keywords=ifi+audio+usb
  
 2nd review down.


----------



## plonter

Ordered!  why not..  clean power is important, and it is not expensive.


----------



## BeatsWork

plonter said:


> Hey guys, aren't you afraid that the wyrd will "mess" with the sound?  e.g add coloration?    Should I worry about that?


 
  
 Could color the sound in the same way as an 'audiophile' USB cable (pulls pin on grenade and tosses).


----------



## Xoen

beatswork said:


> Could color the sound in the same way as an 'audiophile' USB cable (pulls pin on grenade and tosses).


 
 Lol they actually make those?


----------



## firev1

The Wyrd might not help/make worse a system if your system is plague by ground loops. Or else it colors about as much as a laptop pc port lol. For poorly designed/ normal design usb implementations not limited to bus powered DACs/devices, the Wyrd might help.


----------



## plonter

I don't notice any noises or glitches in my system,but still prefer that my usb dac gets the best power possible. The Wyrd is similar to usb hub but better with "audiophile" design in mind. regular usb hub doesn't reclock (or is it) and also shared with other devices (if not than it is just a waiste of available ports). Wyrd have better parts inside than a cheapo usb hub, it's more of a dedicated power supply rarther than a hub.

Am I wrong here ??


----------



## conquerator2

plonter said:


> I don't notice any noises or glitches in my system,but still prefer that my usb dac gets the best power possible. The Wyrd is similar to usb hub but better with "audiophile" design in mind. regular usb hub doesn't reclock (or is it) and also shared with other devices (if not than it is just a waiste of available ports). Wyrd have better parts inside.
> 
> Am I wrong here ??




Nope. You are correct.


----------



## castleofargh

how is the


plonter said:


> I don't notice any noises or glitches in my system,but still prefer that my usb dac gets the best power possible. The Wyrd is similar to usb hub but better with "audiophile" design in mind. regular usb hub doesn't reclock (or is it) and also shared with other devices (if not than it is just a waiste of available ports). Wyrd have better parts inside than a cheapo usb hub, it's more of a dedicated power supply rarther than a hub.
> 
> Am I wrong here ??


 

 so you're planning to get one to try and solve problems you don't have? ^_^
 the reclocking is already happening in the DAC (with upsampling if asynchronous USB).


----------



## Hansotek

Wyrd arrived in the mail today. Here's a mini review.
 My chain is: Macbook Pro > Wyrd > ODAC > Lyr > HE500.
  
*INITIAL IMPRESSIONS:*
 My initial impression is somewhat mixed. Wyrd _clearly_ has an impact on the sound. But that impact can be a good or bad thing, based on the recording.
  
*THE POSITIVE: *
 The background seems to get blacker, adding quite a bit of depth to the music and making ODAC noticeably more resolving. Each note seems to have a clear beginning and end. There also seems to be more headroom with some louder sounds, adding a bit of top end definition and resolution where it was missing before. Some instruments gain a sort of naturalness and realism in a way that's not necessarily better or worse, just different.
  
*THE NEGATIVE:*
 The Wyrd definitely brings out the ODAC's clinical side. On some songs, this can be a great thing, revealing gobs of texture and detail. On others, it can turn into too much of a good thing and become quite fatiguing. While each note is brought into clear focus, the effect becomes "subtraction by addition" in some ways. While the individual notes gain focus, it becomes harder to focus on the song as a whole, and you start being overwhelmed by all these notes. Depending on the track, the combined sound can easily become devoid of musicality. It also seems to bring up a bit of a fatiguing treble frequency that I worked tune out through lots of careful modding... so this is obviously a bit frustrating, too.
  
*OVERALL:*
 A/Bing, I found myself enjoying some tracks with it and some tracks _much_ more without it. Whenever I plugged it in, the jump in technicality felt shocking... but after 5 or 10 minutes, I'd feel bored and plug the ODAC back into the USB directly, which felt more musical... allowing the song to focus itself more naturally. It would be nice to have an A/B switcher for this thing, so you could apply it whenever you want. It's a cool effect sometimes, but might be a little too clinical to live with all the time.


----------



## plonter

castleofargh said:


> so you're planning to get one to try and solve problems you don't have? ^_^
> the reclocking is already happening in the DAC (with upsampling if asynchronous USB).


 

 I am not trying to solve anything.. just to maximize the performance.  I don't count on the computer usb port in 100%.


----------



## crazychile

Has anyone tried the WYRD with a Bifrost Uber USB? I don't have any issues with mine, and maybe they already implemented a bit of the WYRDness into the Bifrost Uber USB option. I'm just curious if anyone has tried it and found any sonic benefit.
  
 I'm currently using a 2010 Macbook Pro to the Bifrost.


----------



## sludgeogre

crazychile said:


> Has anyone tried the WYRD with a Bifrost Uber USB? I don't have any issues with mine, and maybe they already implemented a bit of the WYRDness into the Bifrost Uber USB option. I'm just curious if anyone has tried it and found any sonic benefit.
> 
> I'm currently using a 2010 Macbook Pro to the Bifrost.


 
 I've used my Wyrd with my Bifrost a few times and I really didn't notice a difference. It may have been a bit more detailed and spacious, but it was so minor I couldn't really say if it was true or not. I find that the improvement to the Modi is pretty drastic, though, especially when using my crappy laptop at work. It brings the Modi a lot closer to the Bifrost, but still lacks the superb clarity, soundstaging, and depth of the Bifrost.
  
 Also, the Wyrd came out way after the Bifrost, so the crazy discoveries that Dave made in the Wyrd were not implemented in the Bifrost.


----------



## Pedro83

sludgeogre said:


> I've used my Wyrd with my Bifrost a few times and I really didn't notice a difference. It may have been a bit more detailed and spacious, but it was so minor I couldn't really say if it was true or not. I find that the improvement to the Modi is pretty drastic, though, especially when using my crappy laptop at work. It brings the Modi a lot closer to the Bifrost, but still lacks the superb clarity, soundstaging, and depth of the Bifrost.
> 
> Also, the Wyrd came out way after the Bifrost, so the crazy discoveries that Dave made in the Wyrd were not implemented in the Bifrost.


 
 Isn't the Bitfrost a DAC which isn't USB BUS powered, also acronymous (making the re-clocking redundant). If so, the WYRD, IMO is not built for DACs such as the bitfrost, more like the Meridian Explorer, which rely on a noisy 5v supply from the USB BUS. 
  
 I could be wrong, but this is my opinion.


----------



## conquerator2

pedro83 said:


> Isn't the Bitfrost a DAC which isn't USB BUS powered, also acronymous (making the re-clocking redundant). If so, the WYRD, IMO is not built for DACs such as the bitfrost, more like the Meridian Explorer, which rely on a noisy 5v supply from the USB BUS.
> 
> I could be wrong, but this is my opinion.


 
 Unless, you cut the power wires inside the USB cable manually, it is still transmitting the voltage.
 Even though a DAC doesn't 'use' this voltage, it still sorta 'receives' it and with it some possible USB noise.
 At least that's my understanding, as even though my DAC does not use USB power, it greatly reduced the noise I was getting at times.
 I did not cut the power wires inside my USB cables. If you cut them, then the Wyrd should be completely redundant [but then some DACs that require the voltage won't work with it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





].


----------



## BeatsWork

pedro83 said:


> Isn't the Bitfrost a DAC which isn't USB BUS powered, also acronymous (making the re-clocking redundant). If so, the WYRD, IMO is not built for DACs such as the bitfrost, more like the Meridian Explorer, which rely on a noisy 5v supply from the USB BUS.
> 
> I could be wrong, but this is my opinion.


 
  
 One clarification. Just because a DAC is plugged in to the wall does not mean it has no dependency on USB power as I pretty sure some powered DACs still use the USB power for the USB chipset. You can search the forum but I recall people finding that out after trying to cut or tape over the power connectors on the USB cable. Hence powered hub helps some people having issue with DAC not being recognized or losing connection due to poor USB power management.


----------



## Pedro83

beatswork said:


> One clarification. Just because a DAC is plugged in to the wall does not mean it has no dependency on USB power as I pretty sure some powered DACs still use the USB power for the USB chipset. You can search the forum but I recall people finding that out after trying to cut or tape over the power connectors on the USB cable. Hence powered hub helps some people having issue with DAC not being recognized or losing connection due to poor USB power management.


 
  
 Ok, apologies - my bad. I thought DACs derived their power from one source or the other, be it USB BUS (most unfavourable, given documented noise) or the wall.


----------



## MrEleventy

pedro83 said:


> Isn't the Bitfrost a DAC which isn't USB BUS powered, also acronymous (making the re-clocking redundant). If so, the WYRD, IMO is not built for DACs such as the bitfrost, more like the Meridian Explorer, which rely on a noisy 5v supply from the USB BUS.
> 
> I could be wrong, but this is my opinion.


The USB Receiver on the Bifrost is usb powered. The transformer part powers the coax, toslink, and analog section.

E : Modi 2 Uber is the same way btw.


----------



## plonter

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think the wyrd is a nice product..just what I have been looking for since I got the Dragonfly usb dac (now I consider getting the Meridian Explorer2..really fell in love with those tiny toys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 A good power supply is well known to be an important factor for audio gear (amps,dacs..), and an addicted (and paranoid) audiophile as I am,I wanted the ultimate power for my usb dac.   At first, I got a powered usb hub with 7 ports,which one of them was used by the dac and another one for my external hard drive (also usb powered) containing all my music , But it was rather cheap ,and sharing a hub with other devices didn't apeal to me,(and it also had a really cheap,thin usb cable..go count on this for optimal performance). also,the waiste of 5 more available ports felt waistful to me.  So I have decided to just use the dac straight from the usb port of my laptop, and while I don't notice any usb problems at all,I still feel like this is not adequate. wyrd is exactly what I need.
  
 Like schiit say in their website:  it uses a low noise linear power supply with precision regulators rated at 2.5 uV rms noise (TI LM723 ,which from what I understand are very good and designed for high performance products).  It also uses a crystal oscillator with its own filtered power supply (nice!) for the usb repeater chip.   what other usb hub have that stuff?!   And not even talking of the wyrd's nice external appealing look.. For me,it is well worth the 99 bucks.
 Mine is on its way,should arrive in two days. Really looking farward to start using it in my home rig.
  
 EDIT:  Another benefits the wyrd has over a normal usb hub is an on/off switch, and it has only usb ports without any attached cables so you can choose whatever usb cable you want to use with it..again,unlike some usb hubs.


----------



## Pedro83

On a slightly separate note, if one had what was considered a "better" USB cable, I presume this cable should be used to connect the DAC from the Wyrd. 
  
 Personally I do not believe in these high end priced cables but have several at my disposal; wireworld chroma, and AQ carbon.
  
 I'd be interested to know what USB cables people are using with their Schiit Wyrds. 
  
 TIA.


----------



## Pedro83

plonter said:


> Like I said earlier in this thread, I think the wyrd is a nice product..just what I have been looking for since I got the Dragonfly usb dac (now I consider getting the Meridian Explorer2..really fell in love with those tiny toys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not sure whether you caught my brief review of the Explorer 2 but I am very very happy it. It's a plug in and forget type item. For the money it is probably the best audio product I have bought to date. Ok, I use it with a pair of Senn IE800 which one would expect to sound good but having compared other DACs and Amps, meridian have done a fine job with the E2.


----------



## BeatsWork

pedro83 said:


> On a slightly separate note, if one had what was considered a "better" USB cable, I presume this cable should be used to connect the DAC from the Wyrd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Belkin Gold: PC>Wyrd
Pangea: WYRD>Gugnir (It was $20 for .5m so I figured what the hell)


----------



## Pedro83

mreleventy said:


> The USB Receiver on the Bifrost is usb powered. The transformer part powers the coax, toslink, and analog section.
> 
> E : Modi 2 Uber is the same way btw.


 
 My bad, interesting design. Given i'm from the UK and currently live in Portugal, demoing schiit products is virtually impossible without buying. quite annoying as it's well respected audio gear. i'd love to hear the DACs. and the Amps as i'll soon be in the market for a suitable amp to push my HD800's.


----------



## jaboki

sludgeogre said:


> I've used my Wyrd with my Bifrost a few times and I really didn't notice a difference. It may have been a bit more detailed and spacious, but it was so minor I couldn't really say if it was true or not. I find that the improvement to the Modi is pretty drastic, though, especially when using my crappy laptop at work. It brings the Modi a lot closer to the Bifrost, but still lacks the superb clarity, soundstaging, and depth of the Bifrost.
> 
> Also, the Wyrd came out way after the Bifrost, so the crazy discoveries that Dave made in the Wyrd were not implemented in the Bifrost.


 
 Interesting... I assumed Bifrost would have the same technology as Wyrd.


----------



## plonter

Just got the wyrd, "burning it in".  can't tell for sure if there is a difference in sound comparing to using the Dragonfly straight from the pc, Maybe the sound is sharper and cleaner.
 Overall I am very pleased with the wyrd,doing its job devotedly. Now the DF is maximized to its best.


----------



## Xoen

plonter said:


> Just got the wyrd, "burning it in".  can't tell for sure if there is a difference in sound comparing to using the Dragonfly straight from the pc, Maybe the sound is sharper and cleaner.
> Overall I am very pleased with the wyrd,doing its job devotedly. Now the DF is maximized to its best.


 
 I don't think you have to "burn in" the Wyrd.  It's just a USB power isolator.


----------



## plonter

xoen said:


> I don't think you have to "burn in" the Wyrd.  It's just a USB power isolator.


 
 Yeah,I know..I was half kidding.  The wyrd is probably burnt in after the first 5 seconds it was on.  (probably other gear too of you're asking me  )
 Anyway..after a couple of hours with the wyrd,I can definitely tell that the sound became sharper,cleaner..slightly brighter, and tighter.   my HD800 is brighter even more than before.  As a result of this change I am getting a little less warmth and bass quantity, But my guess is that now the sound is more accurate.  The extra warmth I got before was probably due to less adequate power,"dirt" if you wish.   The sound has more air now.
 I also changed the usb cable (between the laptop and the wyrd) to 1 meter Monster Cable so maybe this got something to do with the change..I don't know. But I believe that the wyrd has more effect than a usb cable.


----------



## Hansotek

plonter said:


> Yeah,I know..I was half kidding.  The wyrd is probably burnt in after the first 5 seconds it was on.  (probably other gear too of you're asking me  )
> Anyway..after a couple of hours with the wyrd,I can definitely tell that the sound became sharper,cleaner..slightly brighter, and tighter.   my HD800 is brighter even more than before.  As a result of this change I am getting a little less warmth and bass quantity, But my guess is that now the sound is more accurate.  The extra warmth I got before was probably due to less adequate power,"dirt" if you wish.   The sound has more air now.
> I also changed the usb cable (between the laptop and the wyrd) to 1 meter Monster Cable so maybe this got something to do with the change..I don't know. But I believe that the wyrd has more effect than a usb cable.


 
 Your findings seem to be pretty consistent with my experience (using ODAC>Lyr>HE500).
  
 I've actually found the bass quantity difference changes from track to track a little. Some tracks seem to have a touch more than they used to, but more often then not, they have a touch less.


----------



## plonter

After two days with the wyrd I realize that perhaps I was wrong, the sound is not brighter than before..maybe even warmer.  It probably took some burn in time and synergy with the rest of the system to show the wyrd real character.
 Nevertheless it sounds good,no reduction is soung quality for sure.
  
 EDIT: For some strange reason the Dragonfly dac became much warmer sounding..This is the main reason for my confusion in the last two days.  This is not the wyrd's fault as I checked the Dragonfly straight from the pc usb port and the sound is the same.   It is now muddy in comparison to the bright,aggressive and detailed sound I was getting...very very strange


----------



## conquerator2

^ Burn-in?


----------



## plonter

conquerator2 said:


> ^ Burn-in?


 
 The first time I plugged the wyrd the sound was bright and thin for some reason..can't explain it.  now it is stabilized again.  maybe burn in..maybe not.


----------



## castleofargh

plonter said:


> After two days with the wyrd I realize that perhaps I was wrong, the sound is not brighter than before..maybe even warmer.  It probably took some burn in time and synergy with the rest of the system to show the wyrd real character.
> Nevertheless it sounds good,no reduction is soung quality for sure.
> 
> EDIT: For some strange reason the Dragonfly dac became much warmer sounding..This is the main reason for my confusion in the last two days.  This is not the wyrd's fault as I checked the Dragonfly straight from the pc usb port and the sound is the same.   It is now muddy in comparison to the bright,aggressive and detailed sound I was getting...very very strange


 

 how about the option where nothing changed and you got tricked by some expectations bias the first days(like anybody would)? because the burn in/synergy thing ... we're talking about a piece of electronic, not a morphing virus.


----------



## plonter

castleofargh said:


> how about the option where nothing changed and you got tricked by some expectations bias the first days(like anybody would)? because the burn in/synergy thing ... we're talking about a piece of electronic, not a morphing virus.


 
 It may be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you are probably right.  Althoug I did come without any expectation al all!  Probably my mind plays tricks on me     
 Anyway..Listetning right now to the wyrd->Dragonfly->headroom ultra micro->HD800 ...sounds amazing!   I really don't feel any need to upgrade/sidegrade my system right now...But I will! LOL


----------



## castleofargh

plonter said:


> castleofargh said:
> 
> 
> > how about the option where nothing changed and you got tricked by some expectations bias the first days(like anybody would)? because the burn in/synergy thing ... we're talking about a piece of electronic, not a morphing virus.
> ...


 

 ahah. that's another audio sickness. upgradatis is hard to eradicate.
 -need something?
 -no
 -want something?
 -hell yeah!


----------



## plonter

castleofargh said:


> ahah. that's another audio sickness. upgradatis is hard to eradicate.
> -need something?
> -no
> -want something?
> -hell yeah!


 
 LOL dude!   This is spot on!   (and schiit guys aren't helping also..)


----------



## firev1

plonter said:


> The first time I plugged the wyrd the sound was bright and thin for some reason..can't explain it.  now it is stabilized again.  maybe burn in..maybe not.


 
 It sounds like a clock or warm-up related issue. I'm not kidding. Hard to catch on static measurements sometimes but it can show up as an increase in low level jitter or poor handling of full scale signals. Try letting the unit completely cool off and try it again cold and fully warmed up.


----------



## Hansotek

plonter said:


> castleofargh said:
> 
> 
> > how about the option where nothing changed and you got tricked by some expectations bias the first days(like anybody would)? because the burn in/synergy thing ... we're talking about a piece of electronic, not a morphing virus.
> ...



I don't think it's your mind playing tricks on you, because your impressions have been pretty much exactly the same as mine all week long. Furthermore, we're both running from USB powered DACs, so I think there is something to it. 

My guess is that it's about 80% brain burn-in, but there is a little bit of burn-in going on with the DAC itself, as it adjusts to having 3x more power than before. It doesn't take long to adjust, but it sounds a little bit bright and harsh for the first day or so after you plug it in.


----------



## plonter

hansotek said:


> I don't think it's your mind playing tricks on you, because your impressions have been pretty much exactly the same as mine all week long. Furthermore, we're both running from USB powered DACs, so I think there is something to it.
> 
> My guess is that it's about 80% brain burn-in, but there is a little bit of burn-in going on with the DAC itself, as it adjusts to having 3x more power than before. It doesn't take long to adjust, but it sounds a little bit bright and harsh for the first day or so after you plug it in.


 
 Thanks Hansotek..good to know I am not the only one LOL.


----------



## Pedro83

Hoping to get mine tomorrow.... initially got sent to Finland. 
  
 Will post a review of my thoughts. MBA-External SSD-Explorer2-IE800.
 Then soon Genelec 8040.


----------



## leeperry

I'll soon try a second gen Explorer1, sounds like fun 
  
 BTW my 230V Wyrd wallwart emits quite a loud buzzing noise when my ear is like 50cm from it, anyone else hears the same?


----------



## conquerator2

leeperry said:


> I'll soon try a second gen Explorer1, sounds like fun
> 
> *BTW my 230V Wyrd wallwart emits quite a loud buzzing noise when my ear is like 50cm from it, anyone else hears the same?*


 
 Mine does the some... Was wondering too, but since the unit is working perfectly, I figured it could be normal.


----------



## evillamer

Seems like there's another product that is similar to wyrd, but at USD$399
  
 http://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies/teddyusb.html


----------



## Pedro83

The Schiit Wyrd finally arrived. 

 I'm very used to my low end portable system having had it for some time, the only change recently was moving from a meridian explorer DAC 1 to their latest version, the Explorer2. 

 First of all I am nicely surprised by the quality of this Schiit audio gear, it feels very nice and seems of good quality from what I can see from the outside at least. 

 System concerned here is a MBA-External SSD Thunderbolt-Wyrd-Explorer2-IE800 IEMs.

 From the off, it was very apparent this device was going to stay with me. I listened to Paul Simon's '50 ways to leave your lover' - my jaw almost dropped. The sound of Steve Gadd on the drums hit me immediately. The soundstage is a little wider, vocals are slightly better, bass is more defined and just better. 

 I subsequently (feeling like a ****) asked my partner to help me do 5 blindfolded A-B comparisons. I got all of them, easily i add. 

 To conclude, the meridian explorer is dramatically improved with a linear 5v supply. I appreciate a computer hub may well yield the same, but the quality of the chassis, and the fact it cost me just over a £100, i'm very very happy. 

 I very much look forward to putting this combo against my fathers young dac and avondale PSU. Avondale Amps into Wilson Audio Sophia, so a very revealing system.


----------



## Pedro83

evillamer said:


> Seems like there's another product that is similar to wyrd, but at USD$399
> 
> http://www.teddypardo.com/powersupplies/teddyusb.html


 
 I would put my money on it having no sonic difference from any other USB isolator, or computer HUB. They all produce the same effect IMO (certainly when a USB BUS powered DAC is concerned). Teddy knows what he's doing but in this instance, the extra outlay isn't worth it. You're paying for a slightly better, perhaps only different chassis, and no external wall wart plug. Not exactly sure about the internals, I might drop Teddy an email about it, he's a very open/transparent guy. 
  
 There are a handful of reviews stating there is no discernible difference between the iFi USB Power and the Wyrd, hence I bought the Wyrd. Whilst the Teddy PSU looks nice, I won't be parting with my Wyrd for one.


----------



## rschoi75

I just started using the Schiit Wyrd a few days ago with my office set up, and the improvement is dramatic... much more dramatic vs spending $100+ on a better usb cable. Like others have been saying, the sound is cleaner and sharper, with a lower noise floor. 
  
 Office Set up: iMac + MIT Stylelink usb + Schiit Wyrd + Geek Out 450 + B&W C5S2
  
 I have to say the little GO450 sounds much, much better than it did before. I think this is what LH was shooting for when they released their own LPS on indiegogo this year. I have one on order, but I have no clue when that's going to ship. In the mean time the Wyrd is pretty awesome. I might have to get another for my home set up.


----------



## Pedro83

rschoi75 said:


> I just started using the Schiit Wyrd a few days ago with my office set up, and the improvement is dramatic... much more dramatic vs spending $100+ on a better usb cable. Like others have been saying, the sound is cleaner and sharper, with a lower noise floor.
> 
> Office Set up: iMac + MIT Stylelink usb + Schiit Wyrd + Geek Out 450 + B&W C5S2
> 
> I have to say the little GO450 sounds much, much better than it did before. I think this is what LH was shooting for when they released their own LPS on indiegogo this year. I have one on order, but I have no clue when that's going to ship. In the mean time the Wyrd is pretty awesome. I might have to get another for my home set up.


 
 Do you really think USB cables make a difference, I did a blind test in a very revealing system which consisted of Wilson Audio Sophia on the end, I could not tell between a $50 cable and a $500 one. Binary is binary, surely. 
  
 I do however agree that the Wyrd provides a dramatic sonic improvement. In my case, for a BUS powered DAC, which IMO makes sense.


----------



## Pedro83

leeperry said:


> I'll soon try a second gen Explorer1, sounds like fun
> 
> BTW my 230V Wyrd wallwart emits quite a loud buzzing noise when my ear is like 50cm from it, anyone else hears the same?


 
 Not with mine, silent as can be. i'd shoot an email to Schiit about it. Is this the first time you've had such a problem concerning noise?


----------



## rschoi75

pedro83 said:


> Do you really think USB cables make a difference, I did a blind test in a very revealing system which consisted of Wilson Audio Sophia on the end, I could not tell between a $50 cable and a $500 one. Binary is binary, surely.
> 
> I do however agree that the Wyrd provides a dramatic sonic improvement. In my case, for a BUS powered DAC, which IMO makes sense.


 
 I do think they make a difference from my personal experience with $5 cables up to $300+ cables. I personally found that you don't really get much more improvement after you pass the $100-150 mark.
  
 Now, I'm not here to debate digital cables. There's plenty of threads that support both sides of the argument, and if you want to get into a debate, please take it there. My point was merely that the Wyrd is a much more efficient use of $100 than a cable is. I'm sure we can both agree on that.


----------



## Pedro83

rschoi75 said:


> I do think they make a difference from my personal experience with $5 cables up to $300+ cables. I personally found that you don't really get much more improvement after you pass the $100-150 mark.
> 
> Now, I'm not here to debate digital cables. There's plenty of threads that support both sides of the argument, and if you want to get into a debate, please take it there. My point was merely that the Wyrd is a much more efficient use of $100 than a cable is. I'm sure we can both agree on that.


 
 I totally respect your opinion, may I ask the brand of USB cables concerned ?
  
 I agree, the Wyrd has significantly enhanced my Meridian Explorer2 so much I won't be sleeping much tonight. It is a lovely unit, for the outlay  - kudos to Schiit Audio. I would never expect any cable, be it digital or analogue to have such an effect like I am currently experiencing.


----------



## Krutsch

pedro83 said:


> Do you really think USB cables make a difference, I did a blind test in a very revealing system which consisted of Wilson Audio Sophia on the end, I could not tell between a $50 cable and a $500 one. Binary is binary, surely.


 
  
  


pedro83 said:


> I totally respect your opinion, may I ask the brand of USB cables concerned ?


 
  
 +1 ... I am also curious which $50 and $500 cable you blind tested.


----------



## Pedro83

krutsch said:


> +1 ... I am also curious which $50 and $500 cable you blind tested.


 
 AQ Carbon and Diamond. 
  
 Note I can tell late on a night/early hours that my system sounds better when electricity is more constant or whatever. Despite having dedicated spurs 10mm etc. Roy K Riches approach if you've heard of it.


----------



## Krutsch

pedro83 said:


> AQ Carbon and Diamond.
> 
> Note I can tell late on a night/early hours that my system sounds better when electricity is more constant or whatever. Despite having dedicated spurs 10mm etc. Roy K Riches approach if you've heard of it.


 

 Well, the AQ Carbon a bit more than $50 US - even for the short ones. It would've been interesting if you'd compared the AQ Diamond with a Belkin printer cable.
  
 On the electricity thing, I've read that more than a few times, but am not sure I've experienced it. It's made me wonder about the need for a voltage regulated power manager.


----------



## Pedro83

krutsch said:


> Well, the AQ Carbon a bit more than $50 US - even for the short ones. It would've been interesting if you'd compared the AQ Diamond with a Belkin printer cable.
> 
> On the electricity thing, I've read that more than a few times, but am not sure I've experienced it. It's made me wonder about the need for a voltage regulated power manager.


 
 Perhaps with regards to the belkin this is going a bit too low. If the belkin cost £5.0, the law of diminishing returns would kick in rather substantially should there be a difference. I currently use WireWorld Chroma, I plan on demoing their *Silver Starlight* in a week or so as my system has since changed.  I am a member of a "UK" based forum and by majority they don't buy into these expensive cables whatsoever, there's a handful of people using weiss 202 DACs with effectively printer USB cables, again, claiming no difference. It seems to be more of an american thing IME. Americans claim to hear differences more so than us over the other side of the pond. I'm not suggesting they're wrong but i've noticed this for quite a few years. It also evident looking at classified Sales threads for instance, rarely do you get people selling and upgrading USB cables in the UK, contrary to the USA.  
  
 There's some info here regarding the RKR method:
  
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-34991.html
  
 If you are interested, I can probably obtain the full details of it, it's quite a large number of pages from memory. 
  
 A friend of mine was ready to buy the nordost thor mains distributor for around $4000 several years ago, it yielded more detail but killed the musicality completely. Sucked the life out of his system. It subsequently went back to the dealers. I'm on the fence about these things, it can often be kit dependent. As I have heard positive demos at exhibitions and shows etc. Voltage regulated power management isn't too far from the RKR approach, I appreciate it's not as such but for the money, I know which i'd try first.


----------



## rschoi75

pedro83 said:


> may I ask the brand of USB cables concerned ?


 
  
  


krutsch said:


> +1 ... I am also curious which $50 and $500 cable you blind tested.


 
  
  
 I've tried: 
 - OEM/generic office depot cable: ~$5 usd. Base cable. gets the job done. 
 - Belkin Gold Series 2.0: ~$10 usd. Better cable w/ gold plated connectors. I don't really notice a sound difference but the connections are more secure. 
 - Pangea Audio 4% silver usb:~$30 usd: Sound is sharper and brighter. 
 - MIT Stylelink: ~$60-100 usd depending on where you buy it. This is the first cable I noticed a richer sound vs oem cables. 
 - AQ Carbon: ~$120 - $170 usd. Definitely cleaner, richer sound vs oem. Not a big difference from the MIT stylelink, but the cable itself looks much nicer... so there's that. 
 - Wireworld Starlight 7: ~$100 usd. Awesome cable. Sounds the best of the $100 bunch. 
 - Wireworld Silver Starlight 7: $300+ usd. Sounds almost the same as the Starlight 7, but slightly brighter and more airy. Returned to amazon since I couldn't justify the price for my equipment. 
  
 For the $300 range, the Wyrd + any "nicer" usb cable is much better use of money vs a Silver Starlight 7.  
 For the $100-150 range, the Wyrd + a belkin gold cable is a better use of money vs any $150 cable. 
  
 *My amateur opinion only. I'm not an engineer, nor do I have sound analyzing software/equipment, so I can't really quantify my opinions. Please take them with a grain of salt.


----------



## Pedro83

rschoi75 said:


> I've tried:
> - OEM/generic office depot cable: ~$5 usd. Base cable. gets the job done.
> - Belkin Gold Series 2.0: ~$10 usd. Better cable w/ gold plated connectors. I don't really notice a sound difference but the connections are more secure.
> - Pangea Audio 4% silver usb:~$30 usd: Sound is sharper and brighter.
> ...


 
 Thank you for that. Interesting. I was going to take a look at the startlight platinum buy you've prompted me to focus more on the starlight 7 which is much cheaper,as you know.


----------



## hekeli

But does it get even better if you replace _both_ USB cables? Or is this the same as in power cables that only the last meter matters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 How about two Wyrds chained together? Does it achieve double the filtering?


----------



## Krutsch

hekeli said:


> But does it get even better if you replace _both_ USB cables? *Or is this the same as in power cables that only the last meter matters.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That made me laugh out loud... nice one.


----------



## Xoen

rschoi75 said:


> I've tried:
> - OEM/generic office depot cable: ~$5 usd. Base cable. gets the job done.
> - Belkin Gold Series 2.0: ~$10 usd. Better cable w/ gold plated connectors. I don't really notice a sound difference but the connections are more secure.
> - Pangea Audio 4% silver usb:~$30 usd: Sound is sharper and brighter.
> ...




I've been pretty skeptical about those expensive "audiophile" USB cables but after reading your experiences with each one kind of sparked my curiosity. Probably will be the last thing I'll upgrade on my setup however. But thanks for posting this.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'll take an inexpensive audibly transparent run of the mill usb 2.0 cable any day, and spend my money where it counts.  The music that is.


----------



## rschoi75

hekeli said:


> But does it get even better if you replace _both_ USB cables? Or is this the same as in power cables that only the last meter matters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Someone sounds jaded... lol. 
  
 Aside from being an obvious dick, you are right. You do have to replace both cables.


----------



## gfmucci

Bones: 
  
 Its great to hear of your success with the Wyrd. 
  
 I have very similar issues with my newly purchased Outlaw integrated amp running USB from my desktop computer into the amp's built-in DAC. 
  
 I get bubbling static on top of a low level hum.  I've tried every USB port on the computer and on my $30 powered USB hub.  I've tried unplugging everything else from the computer.  The quietest, but still noisy, is through my powered hub.  My wireless mouse generates additional layers of noise with either the track ball or scroll wheel.
  
 I am about to purchase the Wyrd.  It makes sense to mount the Decrapifier closest to the amp vs. closest to the computer to avoid noises the computer and associated wiring generates.  Do you concur?


----------



## firev1

The Wyrd has a small emi footprint but nevertheless its best to place it further away from the amp. Its really very small compared to say the regular Audio GD R-cores/ chinese toroidal linear supplies.


----------



## Pedro83

xoen said:


> I've been pretty skeptical about those expensive "audiophile" USB cables but after reading your experiences with each one kind of sparked my curiosity. Probably will be the last thing I'll upgrade on my setup however. But thanks for posting this.


 
 No, i'd save your time. 
  
 Remember, there are people WANTING to buy them, WANTING to believe as it makes them feel better, superior etc etc, as such, there's a market for them. Spend it on music instead. If you do insist, find a dealer who will loan you one, do some blindfolded testing and move forward from there.


----------



## Krutsch

firev1 said:


> The Wyrd has a small emi footprint but nevertheless its best to place it further away from the amp. Its really very small compared to say the regular Audio GD R-cores/ chinese toroidal linear supplies.


 

 How do you know that; have you measured it and/or read something from someone who has?


----------



## firev1

Measured it, it mostly appears as common mode noise on short RCA runs. Nothing advanced like emi field visualizers just moving the cable and eyeballing the distance lol.


----------



## mordante

I recieved my Schiit Wyrd last weekend. Since I celibate my birthday party Saturday I enjoyed a hangover Sunday. Which means I haven't done any serious listening yet. But as far as I could tell in the few minutes between headaches that I did listen the Wyrd did indeed improve the SQ. Less grainy, less background noise. Maybe I'll do a more thorough review later.

 My setup:
 Synology NAS
 Laptop in docking station, windows XP
 Foobar using M2tech Hiface kernel streaming
 Schiit PYST
 Schiit Wyrd
 M2tech hiface (directly into the Wyrd)
 pro audio DIN 75 Ohm cable
 Wadia 12
 Pink Faun 5th anniversary interlink
 Symphonic Line La Musica
 Audio Quest rocket 88
 Master One speaker by Rick Paap


----------



## gfmucci

USB Noise Update:

I received and connected the Schiit Wyrd decrapifier. The verdict...

It's a keeper. Prior to connecting, the USB noise was first noticed with the volume control set at 25% on up. Now the volume has to be cranked beyond 65% to first notice the noise. Listening through headphones I will rarely have the volume approach 50% and most often around 25% with the headphone level control set at 50%. So for all practical purposes, my problem is solved. Not being proficient at estimating db, but I'll gander a guess that I gained about 10db to 15db of USB distortion-free volume (added S/N ratio).


----------



## conquerator2

I asked Schiit and apparently some hum is normal. I think mine is about that. Inaudible when more secondary, background noises are present [PC fans, TV, etc.] but somewhat audible when it's silent [evening]. Since it is in the same room where I sleep, I just disconnect it overnight, cause it is annoying. Since it does not seem to affect the Wyrd's function in any way, I'll leave it be.


----------



## mordante

mordante said:


> I recieved my Schiit Wyrd last weekend. Since I celibate my birthday party Saturday I enjoyed a hangover Sunday. Which means I haven't done any serious listening yet. But as far as I could tell in the few minutes between headaches that I did listen the Wyrd did indeed improve the SQ. Less grainy, less background noise. Maybe I'll do a more thorough review later.
> 
> My setup:
> Synology NAS
> ...


 
  
 Did some more listening (Mozart requiem, by Carl Bohm, by far the best version IMHO).
  
 Too be honest the change in SQ is minor, could even be zero. I think that the music sound more coherent better flow, for lack of words. What I nocticed most that its less tiring to listen to the music. When I play LP's I can listen for hours. With streaming after about an hour I stop.


----------



## plonter

darinf said:


> According to Purin, the Wyrd also reclocks the data, so it's not just power related. It also affects the data. Even with USB DAC's that have separate power supplies, the Wyrd may still affect the sound.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/721201/schiit-hits-the-fan-valhalla-2-lyr-2-announced-wyrd-and-mani-previewed/150#post_10678739
> 
> I found that the sound is affected even on a powered DAC like the Hugo.


 
  
 I have the modi2/magni2 uber stack  + wyrd.  first I got the wyrd for using with the Dragonfly which is fully usb powered, imo the wyrd is a must in this case.  With the modi uber I still have decided to use the wyrd to get the best possible usb signal although it is powered from linear power supply of its own,
 but as I understood the usb recieving chip is still fed from the power coming from the usb. 
  


saxelrod92 said:


> Yea it could help out powered dacs, especially if you dont have the best usb ports ever or something. or just to satisfy that ocd to make sure theres definitely nothing in the usb signal path that is messing with the sound other than the dac, amp, and headphones lol. I know this because I just tried my other usb port, and got a super subtle different sound, just a super tiny change in imaging, the other port was super slightly less able to layer sounds right, compared to the usual port I use. Its still very very small differences, but its just like that sensation that something is off, but its too small to exactly pinpoint right away. so I figure if someone gets really annoyed about that, the wyrd will help solve any such difference by acting as a perfect usb port.
> 
> 
> (if I had a spare 100 bucks to spend on something like this, I would totally get it, but thankfully nothing in my system is really breaking that ocd annoyance barrier that would make me go for this, at least for now lol)


 
 I personally got the wyrd for the reasons you mentioned. Imo 100$ for assuring that the usb signal is adequate is really not a lot, and even necessary if you are asking me.
 I simply don't trust my cheap laptop's usb.


----------



## plonter

I have another question: in case I decide to invest in a better usb cable ,I assume it is pointless to put it between the pc and the wyrd? instead using it between the wyrd and the dac..  or else get two usb cables and use them both, but if it is totally pointless to have good usb cable between the pc and wyrd than it is just a waste of money.


----------



## Hansotek

plonter said:


> I have another question: in case I decide to invest in a better usb cable ,I assume it is pointless to put it between the pc and the wyrd? instead using it between the wyrd and the dac..  or else get two usb cables and use them both, but if it is totally pointless to have good usb cable between the pc and wyrd than it is just a waste of money.



That's what I would think. I don't know, maybe there's some benefit to having a better cable between the source and wyrd, but it seems a safe bet that you'd see the most benefit between the wyrd and the DAC.


----------



## kodger

I ended up buying a better cable for both sides


----------



## freedom01

Just received my wryd + pyst usb and extra valhalla2 tubes today.
 Can attest to that subtle yet noticeable difference on wryd. Definitely no placebo.
 The leds seemed much brighter.


----------



## Krutsch

freedom01 said:


> Just received my wryd + pyst usb and extra valhalla2 tubes today.
> Can attest to that subtle yet noticeable difference on wryd. Definitely no placebo.
> *The leds seemed much brighter.*


 
  
 The LEDs are insanely bright... you need these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CM10AD2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Mojo777

Hey my Wyrd arrives today. Are you guys putting it at the beginning or end of the chain? I have to run a 15ft USB cable between the  DAC and the Mac. I guess I can experiment but was wondering...


----------



## RickB

mojo777 said:


> Hey my Wyrd arrives today. Are you guys putting it at the beginning or end of the chain? I have to run a 15ft USB cable between the  DAC and the Mac. I guess I can experiment but was wondering...


 
  
 Goes between computer and DAC.
  
 MAC/PC>Wyrd>DAC>AMP
  
 ETA: You might have problems with such a long USB cable. Schiit recommends two meters or less (shorter is better). They say you should run long RCA cables between the DAC and amp preferably over using a long USB.


----------



## Mojo777

Cool - I agree on a long run RCA cable but I don't want my OPPO on my desk but rather on the audio rack.


----------



## plonter

15ft is really long!  not recommended.  The ideal is 3ft or less imo (this is what I am using - two identical 0.9M cables) and not more than 2M if you don't have a choice.
 Long rca cables beween the dac and amp will just unpure the signal,the shorter the better, schiit PYST 6" rca is ideal, but if you don't have a choice I wouldn't go for more than 1M interconnect myself.


----------



## Mojo777

Agreed.
  
 My desk with my mac is on the opposite side of the room and I don't want to have the OPPO sitting there when everything else is on the audio cabinet. You can see the USB cable running towards my desk on the left. The Wyrd so far has solved my biggest problem and that is connecting when woken up from sleep. recognizes it every time. I use the GO 1000 for moving around the house listening.


----------



## takato14

hifiaudio said:


> It cleans a *digital* signal of noise and glitches, oh my they do really try to sell you anything these days.


 
 no, it reclocks the digital to get rid of the (frequent) issues that happen with USB audio (random cut-outs, pops, timing issues, etc)
  
 it cleans the power input, its secondary function is basically being a miniature power conditioner for USB powered devices, which can improve noise floor and sometimes performance when the DAC in question doesn't have a PSU that is up to the task on it's own (lots of cheap USB sources are this way)


----------



## plonter

Wyrd is probably the most efficient product I have ever got. IMO it is a must for a usb powered DAC to get the maximum out of it.


----------



## Armaegis

I've had this really strange behaviour from my Wyrd and was wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar or has an idea what might be going on.
  
 My dac: Echo2usb, it's a 2in/4out device, usb-powered but does also have an external psu that can be used
  
 I got the wyrd and put it between my laptop and dac (feeding monoblocks), external psu was not used as I figured the power from wyrd would be better. Everything runs fine for a week, the whole time I'm only using the balanced outputs to my monoblocks.
  
 Then one day I try plugging into the headphone jack on the Echo and poof the whole thing goes down. Wyrd lights are on, but the dac is dead. I unplug the headphone but the echo doesn't boot up, it only blinks intermittently. Plug the headphones in, lights go out. Unplug, lights blink but doesn't boot fully.
  
 I try the wyrd with a couple other usb-powered dacs and they are fine (Nuforce uDac3, Focusrite Saffire 6 (another prosumer device)).
 I try the Echo on its own and it works fine (using both the balanced outputs and headphone jack).
 Echo + external psu is good.
 Echo + external psu + wyrd is good.
 Echo + wyrd again... nope, still weird blinky lights.
  
 I contacted Schiit but they aren't sure what it could be.
  
 I feel it's likely a problem wth the dac... but then why does the dac still work on its own without issue?


----------



## BeatsWork

armaegis said:


> I've had this really strange behaviour from my Wyrd and was wondering if anyone else has experienced anything similar or has an idea what might be going on.
> 
> My dac: Echo2usb, it's a 2in/4out device, usb-powered but does also have an external psu that can be used
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like it needs more power than USB can provide even from Wyrd. Note the * where they describe USB power and/or external PSU.
  
 *USB 3.0 or Mac, AC adapter may be needed for +48V with PC USB 2.0 ports
  
 But that may only apply when Mic needing phantom power attached?????


----------



## Armaegis

But I never use phantom power, and it works just fine from the laptop. Plus it _used to_ work, so why not now?


----------



## BeatsWork

Sorry - got nothing


----------



## Xoen

armaegis said:


> But I never use phantom power, and it works just fine from the laptop. Plus it _used to_ work, so why not now?


 
 May not help but I'll give it a shot.  Have you tried deleting the Schiit USB driver software and re-installing?


----------



## Armaegis

I never had any drivers installed in the first place. I thought those were only for the dacs... ?


----------



## oletuv

I received my new Wyrd today, plugged it in to my MM2U chain and burned it in for the better part of a minute. Reading this thread I understand that some believe the Wyrd improves the sound quality, while others do not. Well, I´m a believer and I definitely love the sound coming out of my MM2U+Wyrd stack. I´ve never before heard my German Oompah-Oompah music collection sound this good with my stock iPhone 6 EarPods. Also, my double-sided tinnitus seems to have come more to live with a broader soundstage and crystal clear treble hiss. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Jokes aside, I´m not sure I can hear any difference, but at least I have a clean USB path between the Modi and the source, which is also working with my iPhone and iPad.


----------



## Armaegis

Hmm, it seems the Wyrd also does not like the Centrance Dacmini. So that rules out the power draw theory since the Dacmini is powered from a wallwart. On the dacmini it freezes the system as soon as I plug into the Wyrd and I have to power down to reset it (even if I'm not on the usb setting).
  
 So far of the dacs I've tried...
  
 works:
 Nuforce HDP (wallwart)
 Nuforce uDac3 (usb powered)
 Saffire 6 usb (usb powered)
 Traktor Audio 2 (usb powered)
 PerfectwaveDAC mk2
 Yulong DA8
  
  
 does not work (computer does not detect and the dac fails to power on or freezes)
 Echo 2 USB (usb powered, but does work when used with optional walwart)
 Centrance Dacmini (walwart)


----------



## jcwc

leeperry said:


> BTW my 230V Wyrd wallwart emits quite a loud buzzing noise when my ear is like 50cm from it, anyone else hears the same?


 
  
 Just put my ear next to my 230V wallwart - it's silent.


----------



## leeperry

armaegis said:


> Hmm, it seems the Wyrd also does not like the Centrance Dacmini. So that rules out the power draw theory since the Dacmini is powered from a wallwart.


 
  
 When I mentioned that WaveIO wasn't detected through Wyrd, its designer told me:


> I doubt there could be any firmware patches since the USB communication is handled by an ULPI chip (VERY, VERY similar to that squared one, on the bottom of Schiit product) which does have internal state machines - impossible to alter from XMOS firmware. So, if that USB communication between ULPI and the PC/MAC/Android/whatever is troubled then it could be a hardware problem or Schiit product is not as "transparent" as it should be for WaveIO to work properly.
> 
> I doubt it is a hardware issue because WaveIO would run worse regardless of the host/connection. Practically it would be useless!
> 
> Ah, now I see... it's controlled by an USB repeater! I doubt WaveIO's drivers will see WaveIO through an USB repeater but if it does, the data bandwidth would be limited to some extent and USB communication timings altered... which is counting a lot (at least for low latency - BTW)


 
  
 Long story short, most USB PSU's on the market simply replace the +5V bus power line in a somewhat dirty way but Wyrd uses a USB repeater chip...which wouldn't appear to be 100% transparent in all cases. Either you get proper reclocking or you get nothing.
  


jcwc said:


> Just put my ear next to my 230V wallwart - it's silent.


 
  
 Their tech support told me that I got a slightly noisy tranny and that this is as good as it's gonna get, they prolly get them for dirt cheap and QA is kind of an afterthought. I can't hear it from 50cm so nevermind.
  
 BTW many audiophiles claim that 230V comes with a polarity and that one position always sound better than the other, there are even solutions to detect/measure it so flip it if you dare


----------



## Armaegis

Hmm, tried the Wyrd and it works with my friend's PWDmk2 and DA8. Still no go with my Echo though.


----------



## Kyno

Could someone here from Europe/230v countries help me with the transformer? I just need to know how much VAC and mA is the 230v (I got the 110v one, 6VAC & 1500mA, but need to buy a 220v one, just checking if I should take the same numbers).
  
 Thanks a lot!


----------



## conquerator2

kyno said:


> Could someone here from Europe/230v countries help me with the transformer? I just need to know how much VAC and mA is the 230v (I got the 110v one, 6VAC & 1500mA, but need to buy a 220v one, just checking if I should take the same numbers).
> 
> Thanks a lot!




Order one directly from Schiit. It can be requested by mail. They recommend not to use anything else.


----------



## FredrikT92

I get a buzzingish noise from the USB on my stationary PC. Its like a FM radio at bad frequency. 
 Will the Schiit Wyrd get rid of this? 
 Anyone experienced the Schiit Wyrd not fixing their noise issue?


----------



## Krutsch

fredrikt92 said:


> I get a buzzingish noise from the USB on my stationary PC. Its like a FM radio at bad frequency.
> Will the Schiit Wyrd get rid of this?
> *Anyone experienced the Schiit Wyrd not fixing their noise issue?*


 
  
 Yes, that was my experience with the Wyrd. Not saying it doesn't work magic for others...but for me, it was all about moving devices onto different ports.


----------



## FredrikT92

I only get noise from my stationary PC. Ive tried getting new PSU, changing ports etc, no success...
 Laptops doesnt give me any noise with USB tho...


----------



## Krutsch

fredrikt92 said:


> I only get noise from my stationary PC. Ive tried getting new PSU, changing ports etc, no success...
> Laptops doesnt give me any noise with USB tho...


 
  
 That could be so many different things; hard to know where to start. Could be a bad ground, a bad motherboard, a defective USB port, interference from a video GPU, who knows.
  
 One thing you could try, if you want to stick it out with the same PC: try a USB-to-S/PDIF converter (a quality one) that will provide true galvanic isolation from the computer. Then, run the coax out from the converter into your DAC and you might to good-to-go.
  
 Does your PC have a sound card with optical out? That would work, as well.


----------



## Kyno

conquerator2 said:


> Order one directly from Schiit. It can be requested by mail. They recommend not to use anything else.


 
 I might need to go this way indeed, even though I'm in Europe with the high delivery cost associated. But well, it should be safer. Schiit is also very prompt to reply 
  
 Thanks for the answer.


----------



## sludgeogre

fredrikt92 said:


> I only get noise from my stationary PC. Ive tried getting new PSU, changing ports etc, no success...
> Laptops doesnt give me any noise with USB tho...


 
 I had a similar issue and the Wyrd did not fix it, nor did an APC power filter. It was fixed once I moved all of my devices onto one power strip with everything plugged in as close together as possible. After that, the noise issue went away. I highly suggest you try it, you have nothing to lose. I spent a couple hundred bucks trying to fix my issue. I thought I was going to go insane until I finally found the fix.


----------



## FredrikT92

sludgeogre said:


> I had a similar issue and the Wyrd did not fix it, nor did an APC power filter. It was fixed once I moved all of my devices onto one power strip with everything plugged in as close together as possible. After that, the noise issue went away. I highly suggest you try it, you have nothing to lose. I spent a couple hundred bucks trying to fix my issue. I thought I was going to go insane until I finally found the fix.


 
 I have 3 USB devices, a mouse, keyboard & the DAC. All as close togheter as possible.
 Ive also tried getting a new PSU, a Evga SuperNova G2 850W. 
 Also tried to re-mount the whole PC, including the motherboard  
 None has fixed it, im not sure what to do anymore tbh


----------



## Krutsch

sludgeogre said:


> I had a similar issue and the Wyrd did not fix it, nor did an APC power filter. *It was fixed once I moved all of my devices onto one power strip with everything plugged in as close together as possible.* After that, the noise issue went away. I highly suggest you try it, you have nothing to lose. I spent a couple hundred bucks trying to fix my issue. I thought I was going to go insane until I finally found the fix.


 
  
  


fredrikt92 said:


> I have 3 USB devices, a mouse, keyboard & the DAC. All as close togheter as possible.
> Ive also tried getting a new PSU, a Evga SuperNova G2 850W.
> Also tried to re-mount the whole PC, including the motherboard
> None has fixed it,* im not sure what to do anymore tbh*


 
  
 Re-read the previous post - he is referring to external devices and their power connections, not USB devices.


----------



## sludgeogre

krutsch said:


> Re-read the previous post - he is referring to external devices and their power connections, not USB devices.


 
 That is correct.


----------



## FredrikT92

Oh haha, sry!
  
 So if I start to experiment with the power strip I might get rid of it?
 What about getting those expensive hifi power strips?


----------



## Tom Yum Goong

fredrikt92 said:


> What about getting those expensive hifi power strips?


----------



## FredrikT92

I tried swapping around on the powerstrip, but no results...
 Could the fact that my DAC's cable is not grounded, while all the other power cables I have connected are grounded? 
  
 Should I try havin the PC on its own power strip or is there any logical thing to do?


----------



## conquerator2

Mine issue was twofold - a ground loop issue and a USB noise issue.
The first one would require me to plug my PC into a different power circuit, which I could not do without running cables throughout the house... The USB issue was fixed by the Wyrd. This reduced the overall noise/hum to inaudible for the most part, so... The Wyrd did help me...


----------



## FredrikT92

I plugged the PC's power connection directly into the outlet. It helped alot, but theres still some.
 I'm not sure how to get rid of the last bit...


----------



## sludgeogre

fredrikt92 said:


> I plugged the PC's power connection directly into the outlet. It helped alot, but theres still some.
> I'm not sure how to get rid of the last bit...


 
  
 You can try a cheap power conditioner, like the Furman M-8X2. I have one on my home system and it seems to help. Only 55 bucks on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Furman-Series-Outlet-Conditioner-Protector/dp/B003BQ91Y6

 It might not fix your noise issues, but it will give you a better level of protection for your equipment.
  
 it could also be that the last little bit of noise is your computer's USB power management. Since you got the biggest effect from moving your computer to a different outlet, it might be that the power is very noisy into that computer. The Wyrd may fix that. I have no idea, though, these are just theories. Someone with actual knowledge might be able to say for certain.


----------



## bixby

Wyrd on my linux box takes the HRT Music Streamer II+ (new oval model) to an even higher level.  Competes with very well regarded $500 and up dacs.  Quieter, more black space around instruments, smooth organic mids, less compressed more extended highs, and a bit better bass.  No special USB cables used just keep them really short for best sound.  YMMV


----------



## takato14

Is it pronounced "Word" or "Weird"?


----------



## RickB

takato14 said:


> Is it pronounced "Word" or "Weird"?


 
  
 Weird.


----------



## kman1211

bixby said:


> Wyrd on my linux box takes the HRT Music Streamer II+ (new oval model) to an even higher level.  Competes with very well regarded $500 and up dacs.  Quieter, more black space around instruments, smooth organic mids, less compressed more extended highs, and a bit better bass.  No special USB cables used just keep them really short for best sound.  YMMV


 
 I had the HRT Music Streamer II+ newer model as well, it did improve greatly with the Wyrd became so much smoother, effortless, and spacious. I since moved to the HRT Music Streamer HD hooked up to the Wyrd which took everything to another level. What well regarded DACs did you find it to compete with?


----------



## bixby

I also have the Music Streamer HD ansd while I can appreciate the increase in treble clarity and bass resolution, observe that the midrange is quite recessed in comparison to the II+.
  
 Does this change after longer burn in?  I only have about 50 -75 hours or thereabouts.  
  
 The recessed mids are not a good match for the Mad Dogs and one of the dacs will be sold and right now it is the HD.
  
 thoughts?


----------



## kman1211

bixby said:


> I also have the Music Streamer HD ansd while I can appreciate the increase in treble clarity and bass resolution, observe that the midrange is quite recessed in comparison to the II+.
> 
> Does this change after longer burn in?  I only have about 50 -75 hours or thereabouts.
> 
> ...


 
 I did find the midrange not as forward on the HD compared to the II+ when I first got the HD, but right now all my headphones come across quite neutral and somewhat forward midrange wise even with the DT 150 and K712 which both can have a slight tendency to have recessed sounding mids on some systems. There was some changes with burn-in as I found the sound to become richer and smoother with more use, sadly I don't have the ii+ anymore so I can't compare them. I have roughly 300-400 hours on the HD. Though some may be my amp, I found my system too forward with the II+ overall likely due to my amp is a bit on the forward side especially with certain tubes.


----------



## bixby

kman1211 said:


> I did find the midrange not as forward on the HD compared to the II+ when I first got the HD, but right now all my headphones come across quite neutral and somewhat forward midrange wise even with the DT 150 and K712 which both can have a slight tendency to have recessed sounding mids on some systems. There was some changes with burn-in as I found the sound to become richer and smoother with more use, sadly I don't have the ii+ anymore so I can't compare them. I have roughly 300-400 hours on the HD. Though some may be my amp, I found my system too forward with the II+ overall likely due to my amp is a bit on the forward side especially with certain tubes.


 
 If I understand your comment, you did notice a difference between the two that I am also hearing.  I think the AKGs that I have heard have a more prominent midrange than the Mad Dogs so maybe it just comes down to synergy.  I guess I'll have to burn in and listen more and make a decision.
  
 Right now on my main speaker system, the nod goes to the II+ but I will continue burn in on the HD and switch back to the headphone system and see what flavor floats my boat.


----------



## kman1211

bixby said:


> If I understand your comment, you did notice a difference between the two that I am also hearing.  I think the AKGs that I have heard have a more prominent midrange than the Mad Dogs so maybe it just comes down to synergy.  I guess I'll have to burn in and listen more and make a decision.
> 
> Right now on my main speaker system, the nod goes to the II+ but I will continue burn in on the HD and switch back to the headphone system and see what flavor floats my boat.


 
 Basically I did notice a difference. Basically the HD has better synergy with my amp than the II+. I found after a certain point the HD changed a bit. It may become more to your liking. It could simply be the II+ has better synergy with your gear. The K712 has only a slight tendency to be like that. The DT 150 has a greater tendency to sound recessed in the mids, they sound their best on my most forward sounding tubes otherwise the dynamics are too laid-back and just don't sound quite right, so maybe it's more akin to what you are experiencing.


----------



## Pedro83

I use a Meridian Explorer2, I had read reviews that adding the more expensive iFi USB power dramatically ups the sonics. I took the punt on the Wyrd and now will not listen to the Explorer without it. It is very apparent USB powered DACs benefit a lot from a linear 5v supply not from a noisy computer. Note i tried a basic USB hub after purchasing the Wyrd, the affects were the same to my ears. 
  
 But at $99, is is a steal and a great performer in the right system. I would put my explorer/wyrd next to DACs double the price, which I plan to do.


----------



## castleofargh

pedro83 said:


> I use a Meridian Explorer2, I had read reviews that adding the more expensive iFi USB power dramatically ups the sonics. I took the punt on the Wyrd and now will not listen to the Explorer without it. It is very apparent USB powered DACs benefit a lot from a linear 5v supply not from a noisy computer. Note i tried a basic USB hub after purchasing the Wyrd, the affects were the same to my ears.
> 
> But at $99, is is a steal and a great performer in the right system. I would put my explorer/wyrd next to DACs double the price, which I plan to do.


 

  that ends up at 400$!!! for a DAC/amp desktop system that loses the portability and usb powered feature of the meridian. and 400$ opens quite a few other options in both portable and desktop solutions.


----------



## sheldaze

A couple of things...
  
 First you'll have to bear with me, as I must state my opinions up front.
  
 I own the Wyrd. I use the Wyrd. I am in the camp that the Wyrd does improve the sonics, for both portable and some A/C powered DACs. However I do not feel that I cannot live without the Wyrd, such as to connect Explorer2 directly between my laptop and headphones. As with everything, your personal setup (and ears) will vary. For example, your headphones may be more sensitive - in this case I would suggest a better balance between the fidelity of the headphones and the fidelity of the DAC/AMP. I have no expectation that my portable DACs, at the Explorer level of performance, are competitive with any of my dedicated A/C powered DACs.
  
 If you read a thread I started, the closest I came to crossover between portable and dedicated was to use Meridian Explorer to bypass the USB input on a Peachtree DAC-iTx, thus feeding the optical digital from the Meridian into the Peachtree. When I tried the same experiment on an Oppo BDP-105 or Schiit Bifrost, the Meridian became the weak link in the chain. I paid $150 for the Meridian and $300 for the Peachtree. However my $450 experiment failed to produce results as good as the roughly $530 Schiit Bifrost with Uber upgrades - in my opinion.
  
 My questions...
  


> Note i tried a basic USB hub after purchasing the Wyrd, the affects were the same to my ears.


 
  
 What brand USB hub did you use? I might like to experiment with this, cheaply. But I've read that some USB hubs don't improve the sound and others flat out don't work. If you have a known working brand, please share 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


> that ends up at 400$!!! for a DAC/amp desktop system that loses the portability and usb powered feature of the meridian. and 400$ opens quite a few other options in both portable and desktop solutions.


 
  
 I'd like to know what options you suggest at the $400 price range. I'm reading through a couple of other threads comparing DACs. However my conclusion is that the $500 price hurdle is still difficult to beat. The Emotiva Stealth DC-1 was listed as an option in one comparison. And the Schiit Bifrost with Uber appears to be a competitive option in another thread (I've yet to read through this second thread completely, and I am basing my conclusion on the summary page listing). I would love to collect more data points on the topic. And I have to apologize if I've gone too far off the topic of the original thread


----------



## bixby

kman1211 said:


> Basically I did notice a difference. Basically the HD has better synergy with my amp than the II+. I found after a certain point the HD changed a bit. It may become more to your liking. It could simply be the II+ has better synergy with your gear. The K712 has only a slight tendency to be like that. The DT 150 has a greater tendency to sound recessed in the mids, they sound their best on my most forward sounding tubes otherwise the dynamics are too laid-back and just don't sound quite right, so maybe it's more akin to what you are experiencing.


 
 well , the Hd is sold.  It sure is interesting in how things integrate with certain  systems.


----------



## Currawong

FWIW, I grabbed a Wyrd while I was in LA and it does a lovely job with the Hugo, negating the need for an expensive USB to S/PDIF converter.


----------



## sheldaze

I've posted in a few threads now, various newbie questions about DAC, AMP, and in particular questions about people's results with USB cleanup devices. My basic take is some electronics are more sensitive to USB power. The Schitt stuff is not so much. The Meridian stuff is very sensitive, and I noted benefits connecting the Wyrd in my dedicated stereo system to an Oppo BDP-105.
  
 I'm right this moment listening to the benefits of an Amazon Basics 4-port powered USB hub with Meridian Explorer2 for playback, kinda answering my own question earlier about alternatives on the cheap. My Wyrd will very happily stay in my dedicated system connected to a Meridian Director.


----------



## firev1

Hey guys, I wanted to try something stupid a couple of weekends back and plug the wyrd into my EMU0404 power for lols. During this experiment I ripped the Wyrd out from its case and took some measurements with a multimeter. During this process, it occurred to me why there are some people with problems with the Wyrd. With some devices, the load maybe too much for the Wyrd there might be a voltage drop. Got the same symptoms as a few others, flickering of lights and no audio output.
  
 With my Fluke, I measured around 4.8-4.9V instead of 5.0 or more volts. This maybe a small drop but could be more than enough to cause problems with more demanding equipment or loads like maybe certain ADCs. Hopefully Schiit can work on it on a later revision of the Wyrd, mine is the 1.0 pcb. I understand @Armaegis has this problem too.


----------



## Armaegis

firev1 said:


> Hey guys, I wanted to try something stupid a couple of weekends back and plug the wyrd into my EMU0404 power for lols. During this experiment I ripped the Wyrd out from its case and took some measurements with a multimeter. During this process, it occurred to me why there are some people with problems with the Wyrd. With some devices, the load maybe too much for the Wyrd there might be a voltage drop. Got the same symptoms as a few others, flickering of lights and no audio output.
> 
> With my Fluke, I measured around 4.8-4.9V instead of 5.0 or more volts. This maybe a small drop but could be more than enough to cause problems with more demanding equipment or loads like maybe certain ADCs. Hopefully Schiit can work on it on a later revision of the Wyrd, mine is the 1.0 pcb. I understand @Armaegis has this problem too.


 
  
 Huh, that's interesting. Glad to see it's not just me.
  
 Though I don't think that explains why it doesn't work with my Centrance Dacmini, who's dac board should be internally powered (I think).


----------



## uncola

Just picked up a wyrd..  using it with geek out 450 successfully.. I couldn't use the short usb extension cable that came with my geek out.. when I did the pc didn't recognize the geek out.  I had to plug the geek out directly into the wyrd to get it recognized.. anyway I suggest schiit make the usb in/out ports further apart in future versions.. geek out dongle had some fit issues where it hit the usb cable plug barrel/jacket
  
 sound is better so I'm happy with it


----------



## abvolt

Well I got my first piece of schiit gear (wyrd) and I see now why they have such a following the build quality is very good, had a little noise using usb with my wa7/tp it has eliminated that issue and it looks really cool also very happy..


----------



## karlsonklam

has anyone "here" tried or seen a real test of the Elfidelity external USB isolator? - it appears to use a small switching supply and passive filtering  - I got a Behringer interface which has a 15KHx low level (~20dB above the noise floor) spike on my old laptop and its suggested the USB power is noisy (my old Xitel INport looks fine with RightMark)


----------



## dooste-man83

is there any usb canble in the box of wyrd ? 
  
 and next question
  
 whats your idea about the usb cable have to Impact on sound quality of headphone ? 
 is it important or not ?


----------



## sludgeogre

dooste-man83 said:


> is there any usb canble in the box of wyrd ?
> 
> and next question
> 
> whats your idea about the usb cable have to Impact on sound quality of headphone ?


 
 The Wyrd does not come with any USB cables.
  
 I don't think USB cables do anything to impact sound quality. As long as the USB cable is shorter than a few feet, they all sound exactly the same.


----------



## Baxide

sludgeogre said:


> The Wyrd does not come with any USB cables.
> 
> I don't think USB cables do anything to impact sound quality. As long as the USB cable is shorter than a few feet, they all sound exactly the same.


 

 You don't thank that they do? Try a USB1.0 and a USB2.0 cable with some complex 24/192 audio files. That's an extreme case, but if you happen to stumble on a poorly made USB2.0 cable that's on the lower edge of the USB2.0 specification, the problem can be quite obvious.


----------



## sludgeogre

baxide said:


> You don't thank that they do? Try a USB1.0 and a USB2.0 cable with some complex 24/192 audio files. That's an extreme case, but if you happen to stumble on a poorly made USB2.0 cable that's on the lower edge of the USB2.0 specification, the problem can be quite obvious.


 
 I don't think you can even buy 1.0 cables anymore, but yeah I wouldn't use that since it isn't rated for the bandwidth (I think) I should have clarified. I meant USB 2.0 and above cables, which Schiit does say the Wyrd is made for USB 2.0 and backwards compatible to 1.1, so 1.0 isn't even supported.
  
 Anyhow, I have $1 or so USB 2.0 cables from Monoprice that I use with my rig at work and the $20 Schiit cables at home. I've interchanged both and there is no difference that I can hear.


----------



## Mediahound

Do you turn off the Wyrd when you sleep the computer or leave it on?
  
 Interestingly, I notice the AC Adapter itself has a 2 watt vampire draw. This is the same wether or not the Wyrd is on or off.


----------



## DejanM

I am not turning off Wyrd when I am not using comp. But you can if you want - it is only a matter of convinience.
  
 Talking about USB cables - yes they make a difference but Wyrd reduces the influence of USB cables. Shiit has a very good USB cable for 20 USD and I can highly recommend it. It stands proudly against some very expencieve and very good USB cables. It is really a great value USB cable.
  
 PSU of Wyrd is not switching. It is linear supply based on LM723, which is according to Mr. Moffat, even better than the old LM317 reg. LM317 is a very good reg (used in such units like Naim and many others) and if the statement of Mr. Moffat is correct than there is no much to complain about. Of course that it is possible to make better linear PSU, using for example descrete shunt reg, but that will cost probably more than Wyrd itself.
  
 I think Wyrd has a lot of sense for units like Shiit own Modi or Loki or if you are using something like Audioquest Dragonfly. I am not sure about more complex DACs, which usually already have a decent filtering at the USB input. That has to be checked first I guess ...
  
 I have two pieces of Wyrd: one is connected to Win 7 machine driving Shiit Loki and the other is connected to Mac Mini driving M2Tech hiFace Two. I have them for about a year now and I can say that they are reliable units, producing no problems.


----------



## Mediahound

dejanm said:


> I am not turning off Wyrd when I am not using comp. But you can if you want - it is only a matter of convinience.
> 
> Talking about USB cables - yes they make a difference but Wyrd reduces the influence of USB cables. Shiit has a very good USB cable for 20 USD and I can highly recommend it. It stands proudly against some very expencieve and very good USB cables. It is really a great value USB cable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree on the PYST USB cables. Nice cables for the price.


----------



## Mediahound

I wonder, should the Wyrd go closer to the computer or closer to the DAC? I have one short USB cable and one longer one. I can either put the Wyrd by the computer, or by the DAC, not sure which is better?


----------



## uncola

Since it re locks the signal from the computer I'd use the short cable to connect the day to the wyrd


----------



## Mediahound

uncola said:


> Since it re locks the signal from the computer I'd use the short cable to connect the day to the wyrd


 

 Thanks.


----------



## leeperry

These work finely for this purpose IME:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Lindy-0-2m-USB-Cable-Transparent/dp/B004CDVOOC/
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Lindy-0-2m-Cable-Transparent-31688/dp/B004CDXGBG/


----------



## Mediahound

So, is the ~ 2w of vampire draw on the AC wall wort normal? It draws that much even of the Wyrd and all devices are off.


----------



## Oklahoma

mediahound said:


> So, is the ~ 2w of vampire draw on the AC wall wort normal? It draws that much even of the Wyrd and all devices are off.


 
 Yes. It is a non switching power supply so that means it is always on and the only way to turn it off is to unplug it.


----------



## Mediahound

oklahoma said:


> Yes. It is a non switching power supply so that means it is always on and the only way to turn it off is to unplug it.




 I wonder if there's any harm in putting it on a switch and cutting it off when not in use?


----------



## leeperry

Personally I have to reboot my W7 box for it to work again if I turn off Wyrd IIRC.


----------



## Mediahound

leeperry said:


> Personally I have to reboot my W7 box for it to work again if I turn off Wyrd IIRC.


 

 Not me. I'm on Mac and I can just have Amarra re-scan for devices. Works pretty well.


----------



## Luckbad

It turns out if you have ultra terrible USB, even the Wyrd can't fix it (my work computer's USB is super bad). That said, I took measurements with it at home and it objectively improved the Dragonfly 1.2.
  
 Chart below! This was the Schiit Wyrd -> AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2 going into a DBpro for measurements in RMAA.
  

*Test**Dragonfly + Wyrd**Dragonfly (No Wyrd)**Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB:*-0.02, -0.09-0.02, -0.09*Noise level, dB (A):*-101.2-96.7*Dynamic range, dB (A):*102.797.2*THD, %:*0.0130.033*IMD + Noise, %:*0.0250.043*Stereo crosstalk, dB:*-71.5-71.5


----------



## Mediahound

luckbad said:


> It turns out if you have ultra terrible USB, even the Wyrd can't fix it (my work computer's USB is super bad). That said, I took measurements with it at home and it objectively improved the Dragonfly 1.2.
> 
> Chart below! This was the Schiit Wyrd -> AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2 going into a DBpro for measurements in RMAA.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for posting. The better dyamic range and lower THD I think are going to be the most noticeable . I definitely notice improvement in my sound quality with it


----------



## leeperry

Very nice, it makes even less sense to me for the manufacturer to "remain swiss" on the potential SQ improvement it could make duh, of course its low ripple linear PSU will improve the SQ of any USB-powered audio device huh.
  
 Either way, hopefully they got the memo that they should do their homework on sales pitches next time: http://www.audiostream.com/content/manufacturers-comment-26
  
 A bigger better badder Wyrd MK2 would be full of win ^^


----------



## castleofargh

mediahound said:


> luckbad said:
> 
> 
> > It turns out if you have ultra terrible USB, even the Wyrd can't fix it (my work computer's USB is super bad). That said, I took measurements with it at home and it objectively improved the Dragonfly 1.2.
> ...


 
 yeah because clearly stuff below -60db will make a night and day difference.
 said nobody ever. ^_^
  
 seriously though, it's good that the wyrd does indeed improve fidelity on some configs.


----------



## conquerator2

If anyone is interested in the Wyrd, I might let mine go...
 I currently have no use for it :/ It did serve me well for the few months I had it though!


----------



## Luckbad

castleofargh said:


> yeah because clearly stuff below -60db will make a night and day difference.
> said nobody ever. ^_^
> 
> seriously though, it's good that the wyrd does indeed improve fidelity on some configs.


 
  
 The real point is that it's not snake oil. I was able to objectively measure improvements with the use of the Wyrd, which is awesome. Yeah, it didn't make a night a day difference, but it _did _make a difference, which means this product isn't just a $100 piece of audiophile mumbo jumbo.


----------



## castleofargh

never thought it was. only that most systems didn't need it because the signal was already good enough to sound transparent(as in cleaner than the amp+headphone's signal destruction derby^_^), or simply because it would be redundant with what was already done on board the DAC. 
 but of course there would also be situations where it could save a crap DAC from shame, or the very very poor and noisy usb output of a computer.


----------



## sheldaze

I only wish people would stop linking the audio "advantage" of putting a device, such as the Schiit Wyrd or iFi iUSB, into one's USB chain along with other such devices, specifically the AudioQuest JitterBug. I feel a little safer in this thread stating that the JitterBug changes the sound - and it should not do that! The Wyrd, however, does no such thing. You might call what the Wyrd does boosting the sound, or strengthening the sound. But key is that it does not change the sound.
  
 Anything that makes an obvious change to the sound is doing something wrong. Adding a more constant electrical source and ensuring a consistent clock rate does not change the sound. It may clean up the sound, depending on the USB/DAC implementation. But it does not change the sound.
  
 I will continue to _use_ the Wyrd. I will continue to _bring_ the JitterBug to headphone meets, for anyone else who would like to hear the change for themselves


----------



## Mediahound

sheldaze said:


> I only wish people would stop linking the audio "advantage" of putting a device, such as the Schiit Wyrd or iFi iUSB, into one's USB chain along with other such devices, specifically the AudioQuest JitterBug. I feel a little safer in this thread stating that the JitterBug changes the sound - and it should not do that! The Wyrd, however, does no such thing. You might call what the Wyrd does boosting the sound, or strengthening the sound. But key is that it does not change the sound.
> 
> Anything that makes an obvious change to the sound is doing something wrong. Adding a more constant electrical source and ensuring a consistent clock rate does not change the sound. It may clean up the sound, depending on the USB/DAC implementation. But it does not change the sound.
> 
> I will continue to _use_ the Wyrd. I will continue to _bring_ the JitterBug to headphone meets, for anyone else who would like to hear the change for themselves


 

 If it's improves the signal to noise ratio and total harmonic distortion, it is actually changing the sound though. If you hear less distortion, the sound is in fact changed is it not?


----------



## sheldaze

mediahound said:


> If it's improves the signal to noise ratio and total harmonic distortion, it is actually changing the sound though. If you hear less distortion, the sound is in fact changed is it not?




I suppose what I'm trying to describe is subtle. Improved power, lower noise floor, less distortion - yes, this is a different sound. The change I am hearing from the JitterBug is more like equalization. That's why I prefer people hear it, and not automatically link it with other devices, like the Wyrd. 

I am a fan of the Wyrd. I've heard the JitterBug, and I am not a fan. And I have found too many threads, in my opinion, which link the two.


----------



## TubemanRQ

Hi everyone! thought I'd copy for this thread what I wrote in the Schiit Gungnir thread because this is more on topic with this thread.
  
 I use three WYRDs in series. One WYRD sounded GREAT!! Lower noise floor, improved soundstaging and imaging, and a MUCH more emotional, musical presentation with a sweeter top-end. I then tried the next WYRD in series and it was even better.
  
 My thinking is that being a consumer-grade PC I am using, with a standard PC switching power supply which is VERY NOISY, the WYRD is OBVIOUSLY addressing the dirty USB power, and I would imagine is reducing data jitter also as it reclocks the USB signal. So if one WYRD is dramatically cleaning up the USB signal, two are cleaning it up even more. My experiment indeed shows that two in series sounds better than one. Jitter can dramatically affect and degrade the sound quality of your system, as long as the resolution of your system is capable of conveying thee changes.
  
 So, then I tried a third WYRD and the improvement was actually a teeny weeny bit better, but because it was better, in my system, I choose to keep it in. A fourth one actually didn't sound as good, so I keep it to three.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Luckbad

tubemanrq said:


> Hi everyone! thought I'd copy for this thread what I wrote in the Schiit Gungnir thread because this is more on topic with this thread.
> 
> I use three WYRDs in series. One WYRD sounded GREAT!! Lower noise floor, improved soundstaging and imaging, and a MUCH more emotional, musical presentation with a sweeter top-end. I then tried the next WYRD in series and it was even better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is... crazy? Yes, that is the word. Would love to see objective measurements of Wyrds in a series.


----------



## kman1211

tubemanrq said:


> Hi everyone! thought I'd copy for this thread what I wrote in the Schiit Gungnir thread because this is more on topic with this thread.
> 
> I use three WYRDs in series. One WYRD sounded GREAT!! Lower noise floor, improved soundstaging and imaging, and a MUCH more emotional, musical presentation with a sweeter top-end. I then tried the next WYRD in series and it was even better.
> 
> ...


 
 Some reason that doesn't surprise me much. The cleaner the power the better in my experience as clean power whether from the Wyrd or elsewhere really cleans things up. I just use one Wyrd and a cheap $50 furman power conditioner. Oddly I found a $30 audiophile power cable going directly to my desktop computer to make some of the biggest difference, especially in terms of bass which is very big and powerful sounding now, it's silky smooth with great dynamics and everything is very fleshed out and clear. I think cleaning up the power going to the computer itself really helped clean up dirty USB ports. Maybe another Wyrd or something will improve things more.


----------



## TubemanRQ

kman1211 said:


> Some reason that doesn't surprise me much. The cleaner the power the better in my experience as clean power whether from the Wyrd or elsewhere really cleans things up. I just use one Wyrd and a cheap $50 furman power conditioner. Oddly I found a $30 audiophile power cable going directly to my desktop computer to make some of the biggest difference, especially in terms of bass which is very big and powerful sounding now, it's silky smooth with great dynamics and everything is very fleshed out and clear. I think cleaning up the power going to the computer itself really helped clean up dirty USB ports. Maybe another Wyrd or something will improve things more.


 

 Yes, clean power is SOOOOO important. My system uses 4 Powervar power conditioners. 2 of them are 20-amp rated units, 2 of them are 16-amp rated units. The Powervar conditioners have incredibly LOW output impedance, and excel at bringing noise on the neutral leg to ground, and dissipate it.
  
 I also use a WYRD to feed an outboard USB SATA drive case holding an SSD that I rip CD's to using DBPoweramp. I can tell the difference between using a WYRD to feed the ripped CDs to the SSD vs. not using a WYRD and just using the stock USB bus on the PC that I use to do the ripping!
  
 My theory is that even though the data is digital, the noise on the analog waveform carrying the digital data, can negatively affect the sound quality of the data being ripped to the SSD. If I take the same SSD that I ripped the same CD to, I can hear the difference between a track ripped being fed to the drive from the WYRD vs the same track being fed to the same drive over the standard USB bus. The track being routed through the WYRD sounds more open, holographic, and better!!
  
 I know I know, "But it's DIGITAL, and DIGITAL is the same 1s and 0s." Well, apparently my ears are telling me otherwise! LOL
  
 -TRQ


----------



## cdsa35000

Its very simple to explain why, as the digital data are still variable analog voltages to represent 0 or 1 are stable noisefree powersupply:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signal


----------



## cdsa35000

Its very simple to explain why, as the digital data are still variable analog voltages to represent 0 or 1, so stable noisefree powersupply are still needed to improve quality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signal


----------



## Deftone

my pc usbs are noisy *really* noisy, some of my dacs are unusable without using something like a wyrd, the static nastiness just injects itself in to the music.


----------



## castleofargh

deftone said:


> my pc usbs are noisy *really* noisy, some of my dacs are unusable without using something like a wyrd, the static nastiness just injects itself in to the music.


 

 maybe try to buy some cheap usb card instead of using what's probably integrated to the motherboard? chances are that would at least reduce the problem.


----------



## conquerator2

Or an isolator. It limits playback to 32/92. Doesn't have to be an issue for everyone. I'll make that sacrifice in return for a dead silent background.
 Running PC - isolator - Wyrd - DAC.


----------



## frodeni

deftone said:


> my pc usbs are noisy *really* noisy, some of my dacs are unusable without using something like a wyrd, the static nastiness just injects itself in to the music.


 
  
 Disabling power savings often work. Typically just disabling any power savings, and see what happens. Laptops throttle all the way down to effective 400MHz. Just a heads heads-up.


----------



## hekeli

frodeni said:


> Disabling power savings often work. Typically just disabling any power savings, and see what happens. Laptops throttle all the way down to effective 400MHz. Just a heads heads-up.


 
  
 Well disabling power saving probably means your CPU fans are shouting full blast non-stop. Which noise does one prefer? Doesn't help laptops longevity much either..


----------



## yangian

Is there anyone can tell how much the Schiit Wyrd imporved Meridian Explorer? I use ME line out to amplifier to drive HD600. Thanks!


----------



## sheldaze

yangian said:


> Is there anyone can tell how much the Schiit Wyrd imporved Meridian Explorer? I use ME line out to amplifier to drive HD600. Thanks!


 
 Not much,
  
 In my experience, you can use the line-output from the Meridian Explorer without much concern for the USB power source. The headphone amplifier output, however, had considerably better sound, and was an improvement from a better power source.


----------



## yangian

sheldaze said:


> Not much,
> 
> In my experience, you can use the line-output from the Meridian Explorer without much concern for the USB power source. The headphone amplifier output, however, had considerably better sound, and was an improvement from a better power source.


 
 Oh. I see. Thank you very muh,Sheldaze!


----------



## artur9

Ordered one of these to power a Wyred4Sound uLink.
  
 It was either this or pay more for just a 9V "audiophile" linear power supply.  The Wyrd seemed like a better option.
  
 I'll let you know how it works out.


----------



## artur9

I plugged in the Wyrd and connected it up with some cables I had laying around while I wait for the PYST cables.
  
 Right off the bat, the noise floor is much improved.  My son kicked me off the system so that's all I can report for now.
  
 He's addicted to Rainbox Six Siege....


----------



## dmbr

Would the Wyrd be redundant if paired with an iUSB Power Supply and/or Uptone Regen?

Pondering selling mine now that I have the other two, but want to make sure it has nothing to provide that the Regen/iUSB don't first....


----------



## castleofargh

dmbr said:


> Would the Wyrd be redundant if paired with an iUSB Power Supply and/or Uptone Regen?
> 
> Pondering selling mine now that I have the other two, but want to make sure it has nothing to provide that the Regen/iUSB don't first....


 

 on principle any one of those could be redundant with everything. those stuff have nothing a DAC couldn't have on it's own, that's why we call them "magic boxes".
 so if there really is some audible improvement, it might suggest there is a problem somewhere in the signal chain that needs fixing. until you know what "the problem" is, or even if you have one, there is no principle to say what device will do what and in which quantity.
 stacking up random components isn't really the leading method to build great electronic systems with high signal fidelity, but who knows ^_^.


----------



## artur9

K, listened for an hour last night.
  
 As I said the noise floor is much improved.  Previously there was some noise coming from my integrated amp when the volume reached 90 on the dial.  Now I can turn it all the way up to 150 with dead silence.  That of itself will bring in some nice benefits when listening at lower levels.
  
 Right after I put in the uLink, I found the sound to seem a little rough but not with loud clicks and pops that one would be conscious of.  Made it less pleasant to listen to and seemed to impart a bit of brightness to the music.  Fatiguing after a little while.
  
 With the Wyrd that's gone away.  I kept wanting to finish my test tracks rather than move on the next one, like before-Wyrd.
  
 So the Wyrd is a keeper for me.  Although it seems too small to actually contain anything!
  
 I'd say the uLink USB is not as good as the USB in the Bifrost because I don't recall these effects through that signal chain.  But I wanted to play laptop-to-receiver and the receiver has no USB input, sadly.
  
 Forgot to mention.  Does seem to be one downside.  With the Wyrd the first few notes of music is being dropped.  I need to get to the bottom of that.


----------



## sheldaze

artur9 said:


> Forgot to mention.  Does seem to be one downside.  With the Wyrd the *first few notes of music is being dropped*.  I need to get to the bottom of that.


 
 That's Wyrd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have noticed no differences in software/hardware behavior with the Wyrd in the chain. You might try just recycling everything - DAC, Wyrd, computer. I have seen things get out of sync - meaning to disconnect, dependent on the power-on ordering. But once Wyrd and DAC are on, I've not had issues on the computer side.


----------



## artur9

My wife, who has the hearing of a bat, has weighed in.  On the song she had previously commented on as being "too noisy" she now says that the "highs are less fizzy, smoother."
  
 So, the Wyrd is definitely a keeper.


----------



## oAmadeuso

My Wyrd just arrived half an hour ago.
 Never thought I had a noise issue but already i'm hearing an improvement.
  
 Using <I°_°I> by Caravan Palace as a test album because it has a lot of detail in it.
 It's taken away some upper harshness and can move volume from 11 to 12 now so I get more bass.
  
 Some of it may be in my mind by it's nice to know any noise i'm hearing now is noise i'm supposed to be hearing.


----------



## Jimmy101

Does anyone use iPhone 6s with Wyrd with any success? The Wyrd does not like to connect with my phone. I use Tidal the majority of the time in offline mode so I would like to find a solution for this. Phone to wyrd to Bifrost MB to Lyr2 is the setup


----------



## spaceace1014

Make sure that the Bifrost can actually connect to your phone. My Metrum Musette basically just errors out but when I use the Schiit Fulla through the Wyrd it works fine. The Fulla is advertised to work with the iphone provided its connecting though a powered hub I don't know that the Bifrost is.


----------



## spaceace1014

A quick google search seems to show that it probably has everything to do with the iphone actually not liking your bifrost.


----------



## CFGamescape

Yup, you need a powered hub or this thing connected to a portable battery.
  
 iPhone > Lightning to USB > powered hub using USB A to B > Bifrost. You can also add the Wyrd to this chain, but it won't do anything about the error you're having as far as I know.


----------



## spaceace1014

The Wyrd is a powered single port hub. My point was that the issue is software related and that the Wyrd is irrelevant to the issue. Put another way the iPhone doesn't have a driver that works with the Bifrost. You will need a DAC that the iPhone does have a compatible driver for like a Fulla.


----------



## sheldaze

jimmy101 said:


> Does anyone use iPhone 6s with Wyrd with any success? The Wyrd does not like to connect with my phone. I use Tidal the majority of the time in offline mode so I would like to find a solution for this. Phone to wyrd to Bifrost MB to Lyr2 is the setup


 
 Do you have the latest version of iOS on your phone?
 Are you using specialized software for playback, such as Tidal or Onkyo HiFi?
 Is your Bifrost upgraded (from Uber or earlier) or did it come from factory as Multibit? If upgraded, does it have USB gen 2?
  
 I can test either USB gen 1 or USB gen 2, but I can only test lightning with my iPhone 6+ running the latest release iOS.


----------



## CFGamescape

spaceace1014 said:


> The Wyrd is a powered single port hub. My point was that the issue is software related and that the Wyrd is irrelevant to the issue. Put another way the iPhone doesn't have a driver that works with the Bifrost. You will need a DAC that the iPhone does have a compatible driver for like a Fulla.


 

 Makes sense, but if the iPhone is connected to the Wyrd first, wouldn't the issue be with the Wyrd, not the Bifrost or whatever DAC is being used?


----------



## spaceace1014

Think of the Wyrd as a cable or better yet a telephone. If you don't speak Japanese and that's all the other guy speaks It doesn't matter that the telephone works.


----------



## spaceace1014

Alright this is getting a bit off topic but you could go the long way around. You could use airplay to stream music from your iPhone to an airport express which has TOSLINK and requires no driver. Just hook the airport up to the Bifrost using an optical cable and you're in business.


----------



## CFGamescape

spaceace1014 said:


> Think of the Wyrd as a cable or better yet a telephone. If you don't speak Japanese and that's all the other guy speaks It doesn't matter that the telephone works.


 

 I don't understand this analogy. Ironically, I speak Japanese. LOL.
  
 Edit: I understand what you mean. Basically, any hardware recognition would be with the DAC, not the Wyrd. I just found the telephone analogy confusing at first.


----------



## Jimmy101

Latest version of ios, multibit from factory, tidal app. I may have found the problem though. Apple has released a new adapter that supports the 6 and 6s. I will update here when I try the nee one


----------



## spaceace1014

The iPhone can probably electrically see the Bifrost just fine but the Bifrost probably has its own machine language.  
  
 Say you were calling someone to order a pizza Your Iphone is you and the italian guy in the dirty little pizza parlor is your Bifrost. This guy who is fresh from italy(your Bifrost) gets your call and you say hello and he thinks maybe your his cheese supplier and he starts gibbering at you in italian and you try to stop him but he doesn't understand a word your saying so finally you hang up (that's an error). Your Wyrd or a direct cable are analogous to the phone. The phone made a perfect call but you weren't able to order a pizza because your phone and your Bifrost speak different languages which in computer terms is called a driver.
  
 I can confirm that the Wyrd in general will work with an iPhone and if you can confirm that the actual Wryd you've got on hand is actually functioning in a simple scenario by connecting your Bifrost through it to your computer than the problem most likely lies not with the iPhone and not with the Wryd and if that's the case the most likely culprit is the Bifrost.


----------



## Jimmy101

In other words I suspect the problem is with the lighting to usb adapter.


----------



## sheldaze

A single cable or 2 cables? I use a CCK and a standard USB.


----------



## Jimmy101

Computer works fine with Wyrd.


----------



## Jimmy101

What gen iPhone are you using?


----------



## spaceace1014

Can you connect the lightning to USB adapter to anything at all like a keyboard or a digital camera?


----------



## Jimmy101

sheldaze said:


> A single cable or 2 cables? I use a CCK and a standard USB.



CCK and standard 2.0 usb


----------



## sheldaze

jimmy101 said:


> What gen iPhone are you using?


 
 If that was to me, I said in post #490 an iPhone 6+.
  
 I know there was a recent security update, not advertised. I can test both USB ver 1 and USB ver 2.


----------



## Jimmy101

sheldaze said:


> If that was to me, I said in post #490 an iPhone 6+.
> 
> I know there was a recent security update, not advertised. I can test both USB ver 1 and USB ver 2.



Much appreciated


----------



## Jimmy101

OK, tried one sequence that seems to work. Connect phone to Wyrd, power on Wyrd. Phone is recognized immediately. Then power on BF. All is well. Makes no sense to me but I am electronically illiterate


----------



## Jimmy101

Scratch that. Worked 4 times in a row. Now nothing


----------



## sheldaze

I keep all my DACs running all the time. The Wyrd, I do power on and off, but it is on second. Then I plug in the phone and go.
 There have been many iOS updates since the last time I tried this, so perhaps something went wrong there. But it usually works if not on the first plug-in, at least the second.
  
 Will try of course once I get home...


----------



## sheldaze

...and until I got home, I forgot that I have all three generations of USB.
  
 USB ver 1 - plugged iPhone directly into the DAC. I heard an audible pop through my headphones. I hit play on the iPhone and there was no sound through ether the headphones or iPhone. Through the Wyrd, it was identical. It took an unplug and replug to get the pop sound from the DAC. But then there was still no sound. Both lights on the Wyrd were on, indicating I had a connection, but there was no sound. And I next plugged directly into my laptop (did not unplug anything but the CCK) and there was sound through the same chain of USB cables and Wyrd.
  
 USB ver 2 - plugged iPhone directly into DAC, and it reported too much power draw. Plugged iPhone through Wyrd into DAC. I heard the normal click sounds as I started to scroll through my music. And once I hit play, there was sound through the headphones.
  
 USB ver 3 - identical to above. When I plugged my iPhone directly into DAC, it reported too much power draw. Plugged in through the Wyrd, and there was sound.


----------



## Jimmy101

Forgive my ignorance but am I correct in assuming that by different gens you are referring to the lightning USB adapter or am I incorrect?


----------



## sheldaze

jimmy101 said:


> Forgive my ignorance but am I correct in assuming that by different gens you are referring to the lightning USB adapter or am I incorrect?


 
 No, there are different generations of the USB card inside the Schiit DACs.
  
 The first two Schiit DACs I purchased both came with USB gen 2. I purchased a Bifrost in February and a Gungnir in August of last year. These both came with *USB gen 2*. I purchased a Yggdrasil, and this is the only DAC from Schiit that comes with *USB gen 3*. I sold my Bifrost (Uber upgraded to Multibit) and recently purchased an original Bifrost (4399 upgraded to 4490 - sorry, I'm a bit of a collector) and it came with the older *USB gen 1*.
  
 That's why I asked the question - which generation of USB card do you have in your Schiit DAC? Unless you see the too much power issue when plugged directly into the DAC, my guess is you have USB gen 1. I heard it click, but I never got sound to come through the DAC.


----------



## Jimmy101

sheldaze said:


> No, there are different generations of the USB card inside the Schiit DACs.
> 
> The first two Schiit DACs I purchased both came with USB gen 2. I purchased a Bifrost in February and a Gungnir in August of last year. These both came with *USB gen 2*. I purchased a Yggdrasil, and this is the only DAC from Schiit that comes with *USB gen 3*. I sold my Bifrost (Uber upgraded to Multibit) and recently purchased an original Bifrost (4399 upgraded to 4490 - sorry, I'm a bit of a collector) and it came with the older *USB gen 1*.
> 
> That's why I asked the question - which generation of USB card do you have in your Schiit DAC? Unless you see the too much power issue when plugged directly into the DAC, my guess is you have USB gen 1. I heard it click, but I never got sound to come through the DAC.


I get the too much power. I really think it's the adapter. I do get connection sometimes but it's less and less now. I woggled it around a little bit while it did have a connection and it cut out. Plus I get the message "this accessory is not supported by this iPhone " even when the adapter is not plugged into anything. New adapter will be here tomorrow so I'll know then.


----------



## sheldaze

jimmy101 said:


> I get the too much power. I really think it's the adapter. I do get connection sometimes but it's less and less now. I woggled it around a little bit while it did have a connection and it cut out. Plus I get the message "this accessory is not supported by this iPhone " even when the adapter is not plugged into anything. New adapter will be here tomorrow so I'll know then.


 
 Dang - I forgot to look at my Amazon account to tell you which cable it was. Hopefully your new cable does solve the issue!


----------



## Jimmy101

Mystery solved. It was the adapter. Nee one makes immediate connection


----------



## spaceace1014

Nice! congratulations on finding the problem. I'm glad it was just an adapter.


----------



## Jimmy101

spaceace1014 said:


> Nice! congratulations on finding the problem. I'm glad it was just an adapter.



Thnx.Plug and play is quite niice


----------



## mocenigo

Ok, silly question. Could not I just use the standard lightning to USB cable and then a USB female-to-female adapter like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-3-0-Type-A-Female-to-Female-Adapter-Coupler-Gender-Changer-Connector-NEW-/331719054401 ?
  
 Or that specific adapter is necessary to output the digital audio from the iPhone?
  
  Roberto


----------



## sheldaze

mocenigo said:


> Ok, silly question. Could not I just use the standard lightning to USB cable and then a USB female-to-female adapter like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-3-0-Type-A-Female-to-Female-Adapter-Coupler-Gender-Changer-Connector-NEW-/331719054401 ?
> 
> Or that specific adapter is necessary to output the digital audio from the iPhone?
> 
> Roberto


 
 TL;DR - I think the answer is no.
  
 While I cannot find anything to validate, my basic understanding (from trial and error) is the CCK basically instructs the iDevice to start sending data (video, audio) out through the USB connection. While a USB hub (and gender bender) would in essence connect a bunch of devices, I have not, without CCK, been able to establish a connection between any iDevice and any DAC.
  
 So I think CCK instructs iPhone to bypass internal speaker/DAC and send audio out instead via the USB connection. Without CCK, iPhone will not try to push A/V data through the digital USB connection.


----------



## mocenigo

sheldaze said:


> TL;DR - I think the answer is no.
> 
> While I cannot find anything to validate, my basic understanding (from trial and error) is the CCK basically instructs the iDevice to start sending data (video, audio) out through the USB connection. While a USB hub (and gender bender) would in essence connect a bunch of devices, I have not, without CCK, been able to establish a connection between any iDevice and any DAC.
> 
> So I think CCK instructs iPhone to bypass internal speaker/DAC and send audio out instead via the USB connection. Without CCK, iPhone will not try to push A/V data through the digital USB connection.


 

 Thank you very much. So this is the way to tell the iPhone to push the samples to the DAC. And this would work also from the stock music app? Great!


----------



## sheldaze

mocenigo said:


> Thank you very much. So this is the way to tell the iPhone to push the samples to the DAC. And this would work also from the stock music app? Great!


 
 Yes - stock music app sounds fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I also use Tidal, and plan to try Onkyo HF for higher resolution music (i.e. paid-for downloads).


----------



## mocenigo

sheldaze said:


> Yes - stock music app sounds fantastic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Also great news. My wife wanted to know how to feed the iPhone music directly to my new Gustard X20U. Which model of CCK do you use?
  
  Roberto


----------



## sheldaze

mocenigo said:


> Also great news. My wife wanted to know how to feed the iPhone music directly to my new Gustard X20U. Which model of CCK do you use?
> 
> Roberto


 
 Not sure - whatever was recommended on Amazon. I did see someone in a thread recently who bought a cheap CCK and was having issues. It's probably worth the extra couple of dollars to just get the standard CCK.
  
 I have a really old iPad, so it has the older CCK. My newer iPhone6+ works just fine too. The only time I have an issue (and the Wyrd comes in handy) is when the DAC draws too much power. All the Schiit DACs do this. But I have no such issues with Chord Mojo. Best of luck!


----------



## pavement714

I know this thread hasn't been updated in a bit, but I have a question about USB cables with the Wyrd. I have a PYST cable going to my Gumby, but a pretty standard no-name USB cable going from my source into the Wyrd. That cable matters less, right? It's more important to have a nice cable take the Wyrd's output to my DAC. At least, that's what I'm thinking to save myself from buying another cable haha. What do you think?


----------



## oAmadeuso

That's what I did and seems fine. Better to use the best cable for after the signals been cleaned.


----------



## Joel Peterson

I'm assuming this is for USB powered only DACs? Would the Modi 2 not see any benefit from this because it is mostly powered by its own personal power supply?


----------



## pavement714

joel peterson said:


> I'm assuming this is for USB powered only DACs? Would the Modi 2 not see any benefit from this because it is mostly powered by its own personal power supply?


 

 No, there is still a benefit to using the Wyrd with powered DACs. I've used it with the Bifrost Multibit and Gungnir Multibit.


----------



## oAmadeuso

joel peterson said:


> I'm assuming this is for USB powered only DACs? Would the Modi 2 not see any benefit from this because it is mostly powered by its own personal power supply?


 
 I noticed an improvement with the Bimby.
  
 Also i've seen it said here that some mains powered DAC's still need a proper powered USB port.


----------



## bboris77

I got the Wyrd last week and installed it in between my PC and the Modi 2 Uber which has its own power supply. The changes have been more significant than I expected actually. It definitely helped tame the upper range harshness. However, the most dramatic improvement is to the vocals, both male and female. They sound more natural and nuanced, especially when playing high bitrate FLAC recordings. I can hear subtleties that were not as apparent without the Wyrd in the loop. The bass is not as boomy and is tighter and better defined. It is almost as if the Wyrd alleviated the digital approximation that the DAC has to perform when receiving a less than ideal signal. Ultimately, that led to more of the original recording coming through.


----------



## CFGamescape

Has anyone tried using the Wyrd exclusively as a power source? Technically, is it the same as or similar to using a linear power supply that has a 5V USB output option?


----------



## sheldaze

cfgamescape said:


> Has anyone tried using the Wyrd exclusively as a power source? Technically, is it the same as or similar to using a linear power supply that has a 5V USB output option?


 
 I have, but it was a specific application.
  
 I used it to power on/off a Meridian Director. The Director was powered by USB from the Wyrd, while the music data was fed via optical digital input from a disc transport.


----------



## CFGamescape

sheldaze said:


> I have, but it was a specific application.
> 
> I used it to power on/off a Meridian Director. The Director was powered by USB from the Wyrd, while the music data was fed via optical digital input from a disc transport.


 

 I'm currently using it with an iFi Gemini cable. iFi Gemini cable plugged into PC (data) and Wyrd (power) > Gustard U12 > Schiit Bifrost MB > Lyr 2. I'm also running Fidelizer 7.0 Pro on my PC. Everything sounds pretty good, but I can't really figure out if one thing is making it sound better over another.


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## sheldaze

cfgamescape said:


> I'm currently using it with an iFi Gemini cable. iFi Gemini cable plugged into PC (data) and Wyrd (power) > Gustard U12 > Schiit Bifrost MB > Lyr 2. I'm also running Fidelizer 7.0 Pro on my PC. Everything sounds pretty good, but I can't really figure out if one thing is making it sound better over another.


 
 Sometimes it is the whole of the audio system... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I don't generally believe that about DACs. I will most often tell a person to get the best DAC they can, and play with the rest of the system. But even regarding DACs, there is the transport or digital audio source, digital cable, quality of the interface on both ends. And as you mentioned, how you are sending the bits from your computer source. There are so many rules I follow, I should probably write myself a cookbook.
  
 Is the DAC powered by USB? Or is the USB interface to the DAC powered by USB? Or is nothing in the DAC dependent on USB, other than the digital bits? Anyways...glad you're liking it. And though I know it to be a competing product, you may want to pop into the REGEN thread. They truly do some mystical experimental things there!


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## CFGamescape

sheldaze said:


> Sometimes it is the whole of the audio system...
> 
> I don't generally believe that about DACs. I will most often tell a person to get the best DAC they can, and play with the rest of the system. But even regarding DACs, there is the transport or digital audio source, digital cable, quality of the interface on both ends. And as you mentioned, how you are sending the bits from your computer source. There are so many rules I follow, I should probably write myself a cookbook.
> 
> Is the DAC powered by USB? Or is the USB interface to the DAC powered by USB? Or is nothing in the DAC dependent on USB, other than the digital bits? Anyways...glad you're liking it. And though I know it to be a competing product, you may want to pop into the REGEN thread. They truly do some mystical experimental things there!




Yeah, I follow the Regen thread pretty closely. My DAC and USB interface are not dependent on USB power. They each have their own power supply. I'm using a coax to connect them to each other. I have an iFi nano iUSB3.0 on the way, the new iFi product that is supposed to be their "econo" version of a similar product; both doing the same thing as the Regen. I got it because I had Amazon credits. Otherwise, I would have picked up the Regen. I may still do it eventually. Anyway, thanks for reply!


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## Thenazgul

Could someone make a picture of the way that this Shiit device is connected to the DAC and PC. Thank you in advance.


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## ginetto61

thenazgul said:


> Could someone make a picture of the way that this Shiit device is connected to the DAC and PC. Thank you in advance.


 
  
 Hi     if you mean this product here
  

  
 you have to connect the pc to the Input and the Output to a usb dac/converter.
 And of course the power adapter to the AC socket on the right.
 Nice little unit indeed.
 Regards, gino


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## Thenazgul

ginetto61 said:


> Hi     if you mean this product here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 So technically. There goes a USB A > B 2.0 from the DAC to the Shiit-Wyrd Output (a short one preferred). And another USB A > B 2.0 cable from the Schiit Wyrd-Input to the computer (this one could be longer, less than 2m preferred. Is this correct?


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## ginetto61

thenazgul said:


> So technically. There goes a USB A > B 2.0 from the DAC to the Shiit-Wyrd Output (a short one preferred). And another USB A > B 2.0 cable from the Schiit Wyrd-Input to the computer (this one could be longer, less than 2m preferred. Is this correct?


 
  
 Hi !  you are starting from the end of the chain ... start from the source that is the PC.
 You need a USB cable to connect the usb port on the PC to the input of the Schiit and
 another usb cable to connect the output of the Schiit to the dac.
 The signal is sourced at the pc and goes down to the dac.  Not viceversa.
 Yes i would keep the Schiit as close as possible to the dac.
 Regards,  gino


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## Thenazgul

ginetto61 said:


> Hi !  you are starting from the end of the chain ... start from the source that is the PC.
> You need a USB cable to connect the usb port on the PC to the input of the Schiit and
> another usb cable to connect the output of the Schiit to the dac.
> The signal is sourced at the pc and goes down to the dac.  Not viceversa.
> ...


 
 Alright I make the start chain

*PC/Computer*-USB-cable A>B(2.0) to *Shiit Wyrd* Input. This one could be up to 2-meters in length. 
*Shiit Wyrd* Output USB-cable A>B(2.0) (short cable) to *Shiit DAC- *Input
*Shiit DAC *Output L/R RCA-cable (short) to *Shiit AMP* Input L/R
*Shiit AMP* Output L/R RCA-cable = for Speakers. Front Headphone jack-output is used for headphones obviously.

 Chain : PC to Shiit Wyrd | Shiit Wyrd to Shiit DAC | Shiit DAC to Shiit AMP | Shiit AMP to Speakers/Headphone

 (All three need power-Adapter 230VAC Europlug for Europe aka the Netherlands.)

 Is this right?


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## RickB

thenazgul said:


> Alright I make the start chain
> 
> *PC/Computer*-USB-cable A>B(2.0) to *Shiit Wyrd* Input. This one could be up to 2-meters in length.
> *Shiit Wyrd* Output USB-cable A>B(2.0) (short cable) to *Shiit DAC- *Input
> ...


 

 Yes.


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## Thenazgul

rickb said:


> Yes.


 
 Thank you. Do you know if USB 3.0 A>B cables are compatible as well?


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## RickB

thenazgul said:


> Thank you. Do you know if USB 3.0 A>B cables are compatible as well?


 

 Schiit recommends USB 2.0. Don't know if the 3.0 would work.


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## jimdandy

I got the Wyrd to "even" out my system. OCD that way. It seems it made things more silent. I think it helped the sound a little. I'm using HE-400i with new 2.5mm connectors for the cable. Seems it does more for the sound when using the Vali 2. I'm using a National tube I got from Upscale. 7DJ8 PCC88.


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## jimdandy

Using all PYST cables just FYI.


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## Thenazgul

Could you guys tell me the order of turning off and on Shiit devices? Do you guys leave it all on 24/7 (multidac).
 I guess turning on is = Wyrd > DAC > Amp.


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## RickB

thenazgul said:


> Could you guys tell me the order of turning off and on Shiit devices? Do you guys leave it all on 24/7 (multidac).
> I guess turning on is = Wyrd > DAC > Amp.


 

 You can leave the Wyrd and DAC on (Schiit recommends leaving DACs on) and amps are generally turned off. If you have solid state, you could leave the amp on too if you chose, but definitely turn off tube amps when not in use.


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## ginetto61

Hi and sorry if i jump in with a question.
 I did read most of this very interesting thread but did not find a straight answer.

Does the Wyrd provide *galvanic isolation ?*
Does it *decrease the jitter ?*
 From what i understand these are the two main issues with usb signal transmission.
 Thanks a lot
 Bye, gino


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## RickB

ginetto61 said:


> Hi and sorry if i jump in with a question.
> I did read most of this very interesting thread but did not find a straight answer.
> 
> Does the Wyrd provide *galvanic isolation ?*
> ...


 
 It doesn't provide galvanic isolation.


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## ginetto61

rickb said:


> It doesn't provide galvanic isolation.


 
  
 Hi thanks !
 To be perfectly honest i do not even know what galvanic isolation really means,
 But i like this device a lot indeed even just as an external USB power supply.
 Morevoer* i see some circuit inside that should decrease the signal jitter.*

  
 Unfortunately i have not been able to find *any lab reports showing the effects of this device on a jittery signal *... that would be interesting.
 Thanks a lot again
 gino


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## RickB

ginetto61 said:


> Hi thanks !
> To be perfectly honest i do not even know what galvanic isolation really means,
> But i like this device a lot indeed even just as an external USB power supply.
> Morevoer* i see some circuit inside that should decrease the signal jitter.*
> ...


 
  
 Galvanic isolation means that it would prevent ground loops-- a humming or buzzing sound you would hear in the amp.


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## ginetto61

rickb said:


>





> Galvanic isolation means that it would prevent ground loops-- a humming or buzzing sound you would hear in the amp.


 
  
 Hi and thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable reply.
 This is unfortunate because i like the idea of galvanic isolation between pc and dac a lot.  
 Still i love this device.  I have a nice little Magni 2 that i love as well. 
 Problem is that here in Europe the cost is double.
 Thanks again,   gino


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## RickB

ginetto61 said:


> Hi and thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable reply.
> This is unfortunate because i like the idea of galvanic isolation between pc and dac a lot.
> Still i love this device.  I have a nice little Magni 2 that i love as well.
> Problem is that here in Europe the cost is double.
> Thanks again,   gino


 
  
 You're welcome.


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## maul

It really is interesting what the Wyrd does to the sound, there is absolutely a difference, although it is on a smaller scale obviously. Thing is, I'm not entirely sure if it's positive at this point, it's just different. It certainly affects the treble, and it's hard to explain how - it takes the edge off, but at the same time doesn't make things sound darker exactly. At first I thought it was removing detail, but I don't believe that's the case anymore. Things do seem to be more open/deeper with a bit more space around the instruments. (These observations were made before looking at other opinions, seems they match up for the most part)
  
 It makes you wonder if the Wyrd is cleaning up the signal to be more accurate, or if it is coloring the sound. Whatever it is doing, there is a difference, and I've went back and forth so many times to try to determine if I prefer it or not. Haven't made up my mind yet, but I would definitely like to get the USB Regen to compare. My instincts kind of tell me that the Bifrost might be doing a better job than the $99 Wyrd at processing the signal, it sounds a bit more clear and sharp without the Wyrd. I don't know enough about the technical aspects however, I'd be curious to hear from someone who does.
  
 Edit: I also want to note that it did not fix the static pop sounds when playing/pausing the Bifrost using Wasapi/ASIO (problem is mainly with Wasapi though).


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## Thenazgul

maul said:


> It really is interesting what the Wyrd does to the sound, there is absolutely a difference, although it is on a smaller scale obviously. Thing is, I'm not entirely sure if it's positive at this point, it's just different. It certainly affects the treble, and it's hard to explain how - it takes the edge off, but at the same time doesn't make things sound darker exactly. At first I thought it was removing detail, but I don't believe that's the case anymore. Things do seem to be more open/deeper with a bit more space around the instruments. (These observations were made before looking at other opinions, seems they match up for the most part)
> 
> It makes you wonder if the Wyrd is cleaning up the signal to be more accurate, or if it is coloring the sound. Whatever it is doing, there is a difference, and I've went back and forth so many times to try to determine if I prefer it or not. Haven't made up my mind yet, but I would definitely like to get the USB Regen to compare. My instincts kind of tell me that the Bifrost might be doing a better job than the $99 Wyrd at processing the signal, it sounds a bit more clear and sharp without the Wyrd. I don't know enough about the technical aspects however, I'd be curious to hear from someone who does.
> 
> Edit: I also want to note that it did not fix the static pop sounds when playing/pausing the Bifrost using Wasapi/ASIO (problem is mainly with Wasapi though).


 
 You mean a clicking sound while pausing and playing? That is normal. I have no issues with my BiFrost multibit using Wasapi using Tidal and HQplayer.


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## maul

thenazgul said:


> You mean a clicking sound while pausing and playing? That is normal. I have no issues with my BiFrost multibit using Wasapi using Tidal and HQplayer.


 
  
 No, an actual static audio sound, also when plugging/unplugging usb and starting the computer. With wasapi it's the worst, having some static popping for a few seconds after starting each song - only in event mode though, interestingly. No issues with other dacs. Other people have reported it as well, I believe it's specific to the 4490, not the multibit. It's manageable however using wasapi push or ASIO (not nearly as bad, still have the static when connecting/disconnecting usb or starting the computer though obviously). Someone said the 4490 is very touchy when it comes to usb ports, and changing them might solve the problem - although I haven't that success.


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## castleofargh

I was under the impression that unless the DAC manufacturer clearly stated the DAC was made to support event mode, push should be used instead.


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## maul

castleofargh said:


> I was under the impression that unless the DAC manufacturer clearly stated the DAC was made to support event mode, push should be used instead.


 
  
 Modern dacs should have no problem with event mode, and as I said I've never had any issues with dacs doing this before (other people have had the 4490 do the same thing)... and it doesn't just happen in event mode, that's just the worst out of all the instances. Sigh


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## artur9

maul said:


> It makes you wonder if the Wyrd is cleaning up the signal to be more accurate, or if it is coloring the sound. Whatever it is doing, there is a difference, and I've went back and forth so many times to try to determine if I prefer it or not.


 
 In my system it seems to clear away a bit of hash that overlays the music.  My wife noticed it so I got the Wyrd and it cleaned it up nicely.
  
 By hash, it's like a very low level of static that you can't really hear but makes the music sound a bit irritating.  Now I can listen all night - which brings its own problems  !


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## Bob A (SD)

I like it in my system.  Seems to allow me to hear certain things better: for example when evaluating various crossfeed plugins in foobar2000.
  
 Desktop > WASAPI Event > foobar2000 > Wyrd > Modi 2 > Polaris > HD580 or HD600


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## koven

has anyone tried the revive? http://lightharmonic.com/revive/
  
 have the wyrd but thinking if i should "upgrade"


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## grrorr76

Help needed.
  
 I have a stoner acoustics EGD and I have just bought a Schiit WYRD
 When plugged into my chain my Dac isn't getting any power as its a USB powered DAC.
  
 Does anyone have any ideas how I can get them to work together . Do I need an extra gadget to get the power flowing through to the Stoner DAC as its usb powered.. Any advice would be most appreciated.


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## DejanM

You do not need extra gadgets. The connections should look like this: from your source you go with the USB cable to Shiit Wyrd. From Shiit Wyrd you go with another USB cable to your DAC. Shiit Wyrd hat its own power supply and you have the possibility to switch Wyrd on and off with the switch on the back of the unit. It should work - I have two Wyrds at home and both of them are working without problems.
  
 If it still doesn't work, first thing that you have to check is the power supply for Wyrd - whether it delivers DC power to the unit.


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## grrorr76

dejanm said:


> You do not need extra gadgets. The connections should look like this: from your source you go with the USB cable to Shiit Wyrd. From Shiit Wyrd you go with another USB cable to your DAC. Shiit Wyrd hat its own power supply and you have the possibility to switch Wyrd on and off with the switch on the back of the unit. It should work - I have two Wyrds at home and both of them are working without problems.
> 
> If it still doesn't work, first thing that you have to check is the power supply for Wyrd - whether it delivers DC power to the unit.


 
 yeah I have tried all that. The Wyrd works fine when plugged into my dragonfly dac . But my stoner acoustics EGD dac which runs off usb power works fine when plugged directly into my computer, just not when plugged in via the WYRD. I have swapped a few emails with Nick at Schiit and he cant work it out either. I am really stuck


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## IndieGradoFan

Has anyone used a Wyrd to power a Yellowtec PUC2 Lite? The PUC2 draws about 800ma but the Wyrd is only specified at 500ma. I just ordered a PUC2 Lite and I'm wondering if I can use my existing Wyrd or whether I should order a separate power supply.


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## artur9

indiegradofan said:


> Has anyone used a Wyrd to power a Yellowtec PUC2 Lite? The PUC2 draws about 800ma but the Wyrd is only specified at 500ma. I just ordered a PUC2 Lite and I'm wondering if I can use my existing Wyrd or whether I should order a separate power supply.


 

 I have a Wyrd that I used in front of my W4S uLink.  It was fine but the uLink was much better with its own power supply.  And that was with a no-name LPS from China so I can only imagine what a more audiophile-like LPS would do for it.
  
  
 If you have the option of separate power I would go that route.


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## rigo

grrorr76 said:


> yeah I have tried all that. The Wyrd works fine when plugged into my dragonfly dac . But my stoner acoustics EGD dac which runs off usb power works fine when plugged directly into my computer, just not when plugged in via the WYRD. I have swapped a few emails with Nick at Schiit and he cant work it out either. I am really stuck




I had an EGD and the Wyrd never worked for me.


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## inanevoyage

I picked up a Wyrd to go with my Jotunheim + LCD-2s. 
  
 For those of you who have used Flux (or night mode now, on Apple mobile devices) - this is my best analogy. In the same way you can feel the stress come off of your eyes as flux tints your screen, the Wyrd relaxes my ears from noise that you don't realize is that aggravating...until it's gone.


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## ginetto61

Hi ! i have a question.  
 Does the Schiit Wyrd provide galvanic isolation between USB in and USB out ?
 Thanks and regards,  gino


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## movax

It doesn't do galvanic isolation for USB -- it's actually fairly tricky for USB 2.0 @ 480Mbps. You can get ICs from Analog Devices that will isolate USB 2.0, up to 12Mbps. This is mostly due to the physical layer of USB -- it was developed at a time where a single differential-pair was used for bi-directional data transmission, meaning that you need some amount of intelligence on both ends to figure out when it's your turn to transmit.
  
 USB 3.0 adopts a more PCI Express-like style based on SerDes, where there's a dedicated Tx and Rx pair. From my POV, it's actually simpler to build a galvanicall isolated USB 3.0 system than it is a USB 2.0 system, at the full rated speed.
  
*tl;dr* -- not galvanically isolated


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## overhaze

Outside of the digital signal cleaning voodoo does this thing provide a separate ground for DACs plugged into it?


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## draytonklammer

Just bought one of these. Hoping for the best with my setup.


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## ScareDe2

Not sure to understand what the Wyrd does, but I have a question: Is it possible that a USB port create problem with the sound, like a small subtil change in rythm that leave the impression the music is slightly offbeat? And if that can be the case, will the Wyrd fix that? I use bimby as my DAC.


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## ScareDe2

What is a $30 audiophile power cable and where can I find one?


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## ProtegeManiac

ScareDe2 said:


> Not sure to understand what the Wyrd does, but I have a question: Is it possible that a USB port create problem with the sound, like a small subtil change in rythm that leave the impression the music is slightly offbeat? And if that can be the case, will the Wyrd fix that? I use bimby as my DAC.



That can be due to a software issue or the USB power is affecting how well the DAC - particularly the analogue output stage - performs. The Wyrd might fix the latter, but not the former.


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## ScareDe2

Could be the computer being too loaded and slow,  therefor affecting foobar2000. I have tried a second computer and I am even less satisfied with the sound. I am starting to hate PC.


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## ScareDe2 (May 20, 2017)

I opened Device Manager and I disabled all USB ports I don't use. It's free. Among other things I am trying, this seems to improve clarity.

EDIT: I went further and I disabled everything I don't use from top to botton. Now it's clear the signal is better. 100% audible. Great improvement.

Also using Foobar2000 I have set the buffer lenght in output to 500ms and the same in WASAPI event hardware mode: 500. Much clearer sound.



I have tried an optical cable and although it did almost completely fix the noises I hear when I turn the volume all the way up, the music was quite lifeless and boring compared to USB.


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## alpovs

Anyone who has a Wyrd, can you try the following and post the results? Connect the Wyrd to a computer and your DAC to the Wyrd as you would normally do to listen to music. I presume the Wyrd shows up in the system (Device Manager in Windows) as a Generic Hub and the DAC as whatever DAC you have. Now turn off the Wyrd but not your DAC. Can you post here if they are both still visible in the system, only one of them or none? Try unplugging the power cord from the Wyrd and see if it changes anything (unlikely).


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## simoneratti

Hello, how did you manage to register Oppo HA-1? I am having the issue that my Oppo HA-1 cannot be seen by the Mac when plugged through the USB isolator. What procedure should I follow to register it?





ogodei said:


> I am doing some testing on the Wyrd today for a review, wanted to post some initial findings here as the thread might be interested. Please let me know if my findings are wrong somewhere.
> 
> I am fully aware that I haven't talked about sound quality or jitter here, I am just starting that testing now.
> 
> ...


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## ogodei

simoneratti said:


> Hello, how did you manage to register Oppo HA-1? I am having the issue that my Oppo HA-1 cannot be seen by the Mac when plugged through the USB isolator. What procedure should I follow to register it?




Wow... Long time since I've been in this thread  

To recap:   The HA-1 requires a power 'handshake' with the computer to be recognized but does not require power to be present on the USB line to work after that.

I customized this cable by cutting the power lead to the main (black) connector.  This means 5v power flows only through the auxillary (red) connector.  To connect the HA-1:  Plug in both connectors to the Mac; turn on the HA-1; unplug the auxillary connector.  The HA-1 is now working with no power flowing over the USB.

I haven't tried this with the MAC so YMMV.  There is no longer a need for the USB isolator when you use this cable (no power to isolate) unless you are trying to reclock the signal.


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## simoneratti

Thank you ogodei, my issue was with the Ciunas ISO-Hub and John, who designed it, recommended me to put the voltage into any of its USB port through a USB male/male cable, to kickstart the HA-1, and then unplug it. It worked. As you say the HA-1 handshakes with the Mac, and once registered it remains visible. The only problem is that the power handshake must be done each time any equipment in the chain is powered-off. Thank you again!


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