# Schiit Audio Bifrost 2



## starence (Aug 30, 2019)

Bifrost 2 is nothing less than a complete re-invention of the affordable DAC. Compared to the outgoing Bifrost Multibit, Bifrost 2 offers:


Balanced output: Bifrost 2 now has balanced output, as well as single-ended output, to simplify its integration with any system
Remote control: Bifrost 2 now has a remote control for input select, mute, and phase invert
Better DACs: Bifrost 2 now uses the 18-bit Analog Devices AD5781ARUZ D/A converter, rather than the 16-bit AD5547
Better USB: Bifrost 2 introduces our Unison USB—a complete elevation of the USB input
Easier updates: Bifrost 2’s Autonomy architecture means that both cards are replaceable from the back of the product for easy hardware updates, and firmware changes are handled with an external MicroSD card slot
Improved power supply: Bifrost 2’s transformer is larger, and the power supply has more stages of local regulation, for insanely great low-noise performance
Bifrost 2's Unison USB input is the first appearance of Schiit's proprietary USB solution. Not based on C-Media or XMOS, Unison USB is the result of nearly 2 years of development and testing of a fully UAC2 compliant digital input based on a general-purpose Microchip micro controller. This allows us to focus specifically on optimizing the performance of USB for PCM audio.

"As a result, Unison USB is now our preferred input over SPDIF," said Mike Moffat, Schiit's Co-Founder. "It's not 'just as good,' or 'close.' It's really better than SPDIF. And yes, that's me saying this, not an alien pod person."

The Autonomy platform is also the result of extended R&D, and a response to customer requests.

"Our customers were saying, loud and clear, that they liked the upgradability of our DACs, but they also didn't like sending them in for upgrade," said Mike. "And yeah, I get it, being without a DAC for a couple weeks really sucks. So we decided to do a platform where they won't have to send it in for USB, analog, or firmware upgrades."

In Autonomy, the USB and firmware upgrades slide in from the back, making user-installed upgrades possible. Also, firmware changes are done via microSD card, so the chassis does not have to be opened or sent back to us for code changes. The goal is an upgradable product that gives the owner all the benefits of upgradability, with none of the downsides. As far as Schiit knows, this is the lowest-cost, completely upgradable DAC (hardware and firmware) in existence.

Since Bifrost 2 is a new platform, Schiit is addressing current Bifrost owners with a reassurance that Bifrost will continue to be supported and upgradable. As an example, the Unison USB card for current DACs, expected in January, will be available for Bifrost, and Bifrost does not have to come back to the Schiit factory for upgrade.

In addition, current Bifrost owners or upgraders receive $100 off the price of a Bifrost 2, if they want to move to the new platform. Current Bifrost owners or upgraders are anyone who purchased a Bifrost or Bifrost upgrade from Schiit or an authorized reseller, at any time. Current owners and upgraders will be asked for a proof of purchase.

Bifrost 2 is available at schiit.com now at the following pricing:


$599 for current Bifrost owners and upgraders
$699 for all-new owners


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## starence

More info at https://www.schiit.com/products/bifrost-1


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## theveterans

Bifrost 2 with my Schiit Saga (Original)


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## theveterans (Aug 31, 2019)

@Jason Stoddard

I don't hear any difference if at all between the LED light ON and LED Light OFF? Is this like a phase switch or something?

Edit: Nevermind. It's the phase switch. So if the LED is off, the phase is 0 degrees and if on, it's 180 degrees correct?


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## Alcophone (Aug 31, 2019)

Bifrost 2 in the house! Woohoo!

The LEDs are less bright than the Silver LightDims covered one of the Jotunheim:



The metal work looks smoother than the Jotunheim's and Mimby's, with a slightly different tint, and the print is darker and thicker. I don't know whether that just faded over time or came like that, though.



While hooking it up, I realized that the XLR jacks are upside down. I know the cards are mounted upside down, and maybe this is the only way you can attach the jacks to the card. It threw me off when I was trying to insert XLR cables though, because I was doing it without seeing the jacks.

Jotunheim vs. Bifrost 2, crops of images from schiit.com:

 

With the Ragnarok 2, muting turns off the speaker and/or headphone LED instantly, and it stays off. With the Bifrost 2, muting is a bit more playful:



I'll save sound impressions for later.

*Edit:* Another little side note, unlike Mimby, Bifrost 2 does not have an "Enhancement" tab in the Windows control panel. I only looked for that to check "Disable all enhancements", but if you rely on the EQ features normally available there, they won't be available with Unison.
The "Spatial sound" tab, however, is still available.


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## Balthazar B

Alcophone said:


> Bifrost 2 in the house! Woohoo!
> 
> While hooking it up, I realized that the XLR jacks are upside down. I know the cards are mounted upside down, and maybe this is the only way you can attach the jacks to the card. It threw me off when I was trying to insert XLR cables though, because I was doing it without seeing the jacks.



Can see how you go into an altered state of mind when your jacks are off...


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## tafens

Aargh.. must.. resist.. ..

Nope. Didn't work. Just ordered the Bifrost2.

Seriously though, the Bifrost2 was exactly what I had waited for. I had thoughts about ordering the original Bifrost, but I was reluctant to because it uses the same multibit tech as the Modi multibit I already have. I also thought about the Gungnir, but it is too big and costs a wee bit much with multibit. Enter Bifrost2. The right size at the right price between Modi and Gungnir, better tech than Modi but a bit lesser than Gungnir. And will stack beautifully with my Lyr3


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## Alcophone

Had some fun with it last night. Balanced into the Jotunheim, Ether Flow 1.1 with balanced DUM cable, very nice. Thick and creamy comes to mind, with a firm grip on the low end and a smooth, non-fatiguing presentation. The bass had so much more heft than Modi Multibit single ended, it sometimes sounded a bit darker than it should, but very enjoyable. Whether that's because of Bifrost 2 or because I'm back to Jotunheim balanced, I don't know yet.

When I got the Yggy, cymbals were the first thing that stood out to me. Cymbals are nice with the Bifrost 2 as well, but bass and drums stand out even more to me. I have not done a direct comparison with the Yggdrasil and haven't used it (or any other balanced DAC) with the Jotunheim in a long time, so please don't consider this a comparison.


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## theveterans (Sep 1, 2019)

One main difference aside from the sound between the Bifrost MB and the Bifrost 2 is that the Bifrost 2 definitely runs much warmer than the original. Maybe it has to do with balanced output running simultaneously with SE though I haven't tried the Balanced output since my Saga is only SE.

Anyways, I'm loving how Bifrost 2 sounds with SPDIF Coax. It's just so frigging musical with no sibilance while giving off that "Chord signature micro level detail and timing retrieval" that I enjoy with their Hugo/Hugo2 DACs when I demoed them


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## kdoof (Sep 1, 2019)

I had the chance to listen to this (as well as the Asgard 3) at the Schiitr today and it was really excellent. Detail retrieval is through the roof -- I was noticing details I'd never heard before through my Bimby, they were just 'there'. It wasn't too different from the upgrade to Asgard 2 > THX 789 -- it was just so easy to pick apart the layering and production and effortlessly detect little details that slipped under the radar before. The background was blacker and cleaner and the sound was just overall more pristine than Bimby without leaning towards being cold or clinical in any fashion. It went from a big 'eh, maybe someday eventually' for me to a 'damn it, I have to upgrade'. I really only listened for maybe 10 minutes and had to leave because I was just getting too hyped and I may have made a bad decision if I'd stuck around too much longer. But the difference was so immediately apparently and palpable I kind of didn't need to hear any longer to know that it was a must for me.

(As an aside -- I found the Asgard 2 and Bifrost 2 have a really special parity together -- the A2, being a little 'shoutier' than the more relaxed A3, seemed to bring a little extra force to the B2's newfound clarity and resolution, and there was really amazing stuff going on in the bass-and-midbass-synergy of things.)

I can't afford to pull the trigger just now on a Bifrost 2, even with the $100 credit (which is an amazing gesture by Schiit, in my opinion) so I may just wait until they release the Unison expansion and see how much closer that brings Bimby to Bifrost 2 levels (another demo'er at the Schiitr said he'd gone to a meet-up where they compared Gen 5 to Unison and said it was night and day between the two when they were A/B'ed) -- but then again for that same approximate $100 (after reselling my Bimby and the $100 credit) I'd then have a balanced DAC plus a nifty remote and the new upgradable software platform...

I also really commend Schiit for listening to customers on a wide variety of levels: easy upgradability, balanced output, and even something as little as the more-subtle, dimmer LED lights up front demonstrate that Schiit are hearing us and improving their products beyond merely updating measurements or specs.


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## theveterans

kdoof said:


> I had the chance to listen to this (as well as the Asgard 3) at the Schiitr today and it was really excellent. Detail retrieval is through the roof -- I was noticing details I'd never heard before through my Bimby, they were just 'there'. It wasn't too different from the upgrade to Asgard 2 > THX 789 -- it was just so easy to pick apart the layering and production and effortlessly detect little details that slipped under the radar before. The background was blacker and cleaner and the sound was just overall more pristine than Bimby without leaning towards being cold or clinical in any fashion. It went from a big 'eh, maybe someday eventually' for me to a 'damn it, I have to upgrade'. I really only listened for maybe 10 minutes and had to leave because I was just getting too hyped and I may have made a bad decision if I'd stuck around too much longer. But the difference was so immediately apparently and palpable I kind of didn't need to hear any longer to know that it was a must for me.
> 
> (As an aside -- I found the Asgard 2 and Bifrost 2 have a really special parity together -- the A2, being a little 'shoutier' than the more relaxed A3, seemed to bring a little extra force to the B2's newfound clarity and resolution, and there was really amazing stuff going on in the bass-and-midbass-synergy of things.)
> 
> ...



I really don't know how much of the Unison impacts these differences because what you described is everything of what I noticed upon A/Bing with my Bifrost MB both on Coax (same transport) so it's the actual DAC implementation that's really making the difference in my experience. I have never used the Unison USB as my input for both Bifrost 2 and Bifrost MB. The improvement at least with coax as input is most significant in bass department but everything else is also taken much closer to Yggdrasil A2 levels


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## starence

I wonder why there’s no DS option like there was with the old Bifrost. It would be cool if you could just switch modules when you wanted to go from Multibit to DS.


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## Allanmarcus

Maybe I shouldn't have ordered a Bifrost 2 right before Schiit announced the Sol and is on their way to RMAF. Oh well, I'll eventually get it


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## ColtMrFire

Alcophone said:


> Had some fun with it last night. Balanced into the Jotunheim, Ether Flow 1.1 with balanced DUM cable, very nice. Thick and creamy comes to mind, with a firm grip on the low end and a smooth, non-fatiguing presentation. The bass had so much more heft than Modi Multibit single ended, it sometimes sounded a bit darker than it should, but very enjoyable. Whether that's because of Bifrost 2 or because I'm back to Jotunheim balanced, I don't know yet.
> 
> When I got the Yggy, cymbals were the first thing that stood out to me. Cymbals are nice with the Bifrost 2 as well, but bass and drums stand out even more to me. I have not done a direct comparison with the Yggdrasil and haven't used it (or any other balanced DAC) with the Jotunheim in a long time, so please don't consider this a comparison.



Definitely interested in hearing the Yggy comparison when you have time.


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## mvn1

I have a MB card in my Lyr3. I'd love to know peoples thoughts who have both the MB Lyr3 and Bifrost 2 - if there is a big difference?


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## JWahl (Sep 6, 2019)

Two questions for any Schiit personnel who may be reading.  Is the two-tone black limited to when the case supplier has minor defects or is this a standard option for Bifrost 2?  Also, is there the possibility of providing the discount from customers who bought a more expensive DAC than Bifrost?  For instance, I bought a new Yggdrasil direct from Schiit a few years back.  If not, that's understandable.  It still seems like a reasonable value and will likely be my next purchase regardless.

I think this could satisfy my ideal balance between price, performance, and physical size.  I think the black would look nice next to the black Gilmore Lite Mk. 2.  Lately, I've been trying to maximize performance in the ~$500 price region.  This could be it.  Funny thing is that I've been inactive for awhile and this brought me back.


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## Wes S

JWahl said:


> Two questions for any Schiit personnel who may be reading.  Is the two-tone black limited to when the case supplier has minor defects or is this a standard option for Bifrost 2?  Also, is there the possibility of providing the discount from customers who bought a more expensive DAC than Bifrost?  For instance, I bought a new Yggdrasil direct from Schiit a few years back.  If not, that's understandable.  It still seems like a reasonable value and will likely be my next purchase regardless.
> 
> I think this could satisfy my ideal balance between price, performance, and physical size.  I think the black would look nice next to the black Gilmore Lite Mk. 2.  Lately, I've been trying to maximize performance in the ~$500 price region.  This could be it.  Funny thing is that I've been inactive for awhile and this brought me back.


Not totally sure on the black case, but I did notice that their Sol turn table has a black color scheme and I am thinking they are going to start producing black components to match, but I am just guessing. . .


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## tafens

Wes S said:


> Not totally sure on the black case, but I did notice that their Sol turn table has a black color scheme and I am thinking they are going to start producing black components to match, but I am just guessing. . .



Currently they have introduced black as an option for the new Asgard and Bifrost and also the Mani (to go with Sol). In the Schiit Happened thread Jason said that black is selling well, about 1 unit in 3 is sold in black. If it continues like that I think that not only will the option for black continue but also be expanded.

Now if the buttons/volume knob could also be black, it would look really good...


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## Alcophone

I think Schiit has never before shown pictures of their stuff in black, so that's a sign for it being a permanent option as well.


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## Wes S

tafens said:


> Currently they have introduced black as an option for the new Asgard and Bifrost and also the Mani (to go with Sol). In the Schiit Happened thread Jason said that black is selling well, about 1 unit in 3 is sold in black. If it continues like that I think that not only will the option for black continue but also be expanded.
> 
> Now if the buttons/volume knob could also be black, it would look really good...


Hmm . . ., so I was right.  Thanks for confirming.  I actually love the contrasting matte silver knob.


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## Jason Stoddard

JWahl said:


> Two questions for any Schiit personnel who may be reading.  Is the two-tone black limited to when the case supplier has minor defects or is this a standard option for Bifrost 2?  Also, is there the possibility of providing the discount from customers who bought a more expensive DAC than Bifrost?  For instance, I bought a new Yggdrasil direct from Schiit a few years back.  If not, that's understandable.  It still seems like a reasonable value and will likely be my next purchase regardless.
> 
> I think this could satisfy my ideal balance between price, performance, and physical size.  I think the black would look nice next to the black Gilmore Lite Mk. 2.  Lately, I've been trying to maximize performance in the ~$500 price region.  This could be it.  Funny thing is that I've been inactive for awhile and this brought me back.



Black is a standard option on both Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2. I suspect black will be a standard option for most products going forward.


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## Wes S

Jason Stoddard said:


> Black is a standard option on both Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2. I suspect black will be a standard option for most products going forward.


Awesome!!!!


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## kdoof

Makes business sense if 1/3 of sales really are black. Why make less only offering it as b-stock?


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## CaveManta

So I kinda upgraded from a Modi 2 to a Bifrost 2, and now my Magni 2 looks really tiny. Heck, there's enough room on the Bifrost 2 for my old DAC and amp to hang out together! (So why not).


It's a really small detail, but I like that the Bifrost comes with pre-attached feet. I don't have to worry about doing a sloppy foot job again. Yeah... And the 'click' it emits when changing audio sources is really cute. And let's not forget that the Bifrost 2 even comes with a steel remote, which could come in handy for self defense!


Guess I've gotta get a Jotunheim now, naturally. I've always wanted to hear a balanced audio setup. Schiit had better not be doing any funny business, like making a Jotunheim 2 with Autonomy and Unison.


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## XERO1 (Sep 8, 2019)

CaveManta said:


> So I kinda upgraded from a Modi 2 to a Bifrost 2, and now my Magni 2 looks really tiny. Heck, there's enough room on the Bifrost 2 for my old DAC and amp to hang out together! (So why not).
> 
> Guess I've gotta get a Jotunheim now, naturally. I've always wanted to hear a balanced audio setup. Schiit had better not be doing any funny business, like making a Jotunheim 2 with Autonomy and Unison.


Or maybe even the new Asgard 3, if you want something that's 99.9% as transparent, but not as 'analytical' sounding as the Jot.

I absolutely *love* mine!


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## RestoredSparda

JWahl said:


> ...Funny thing is that I've been inactive for awhile and this brought me back...



Same here. I've been plenty happy with my OG Bifrost for a number of years. Granted I've upgraded it right and left over that time when upgrades were there to be had... but, Bifrost 2 seems like such a large leap forward that I'm selling old gear and hopping on board the train to the new and shiny soon.


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## humblesquad

How about Bifrost 2 vs MD Airist R2R?


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## Jimmy24 (Sep 9, 2019)

Been looking for a DAC to replace my Modi Multibit for a while but a lot of the ones I like are too expensive (Audio Gen R7 R2R or Holo Level 3) at the moment. This being the newest tech out, can the Bifrost 2 rival these DACs?


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## Baten

Jimmy24 said:


> Been looking for a DAC to replace my Modi Multibit for a while but a lot of the ones I like are too expensive (Audio Gen R7 R2R or Holo Level 3) at the moment. This being the newest tech out, can the Bifrost 2 rival these DACs?


It will compare better to Gungnir or Yggdrasil than those two you mentioned..


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## schneller

Jason Stoddard said:


> Black is a standard option on both Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2. I suspect black will be a standard option for most products going forward.



Hallelujah screwing Halleluja


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## schneller

So I'm confused.

On paper this thing seems to be "better" than both Yiggy and Gumby. Yiggy got its A2 treatment and I assume Unison is coming. Why all the silence on Gumby? I mean you'd be a fool to buy it after Bimby2 has been announced.

Has anyone compared Bimby2 vs. Y2? Gumby? Impressions?

Does Unison require Win10 or better as we were told?


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## i20bot

CaveManta said:


> Guess I've gotta get a Jotunheim now, naturally. I've always wanted to hear a balanced audio setup. Schiit had better not be doing any funny business, like making a Jotunheim 2 with Autonomy and Unison.


I hear people talking about a Jotunheim revision, I think.  So you might want to hold onto that thought.


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## Maishar

A recent reply from Jason regarding a possible upgrade to Jotunheim:



i20bot said:


> We're always working on something new, but upgrading Jotunheim in any meaningful way is very difficult. The Jotunheim R that we're doing for Raal headphones (direct drive for ultra-low-impedance ribbon headphones) uses the Nexus™ topology, but also ends up costing a lot more due to matched parts, heatsinks, current sensing and thermal shutdown (stuff really only needed for this insane application), and shorter runs. If we can figure out how to do a Nexus Jotunheim 2 in the future and hold the price, sure, but it ain't gonna happen overnight.
> 
> Bottom line, Jotunheim already provides insane, insane performance (have you seen the 170+ pages of AP reports we have on it on the site?)


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## i20bot

Maishar said:


> A recent reply from Jason regarding a possible upgrade to Jotunheim:


Ah, I kept seeing people talk about a Jot R thinking it's a Revision.


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## Alcophone

i20bot said:


> Ah, I kept seeing people talk about a Jot R thinking it's a Revision.


A good reason why Schiit should revert to the name Weldenheim.


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## CaveManta

Linear amplifiers seem to be the new best thing as far as amplification tech goes. I don't think I can hold off and wait, though. Gyah! I'm getting a Jotunheim and sticking with it, dang it.

Bifrost 2 has a lot of the features that Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit have, except it doesn't seem to feature Adapticlock. I wonder how much of a difference that makes.


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## TazedMarquis

Upgraded from a Modi Multibit being fed with Eitr (due to the somewhat luckluster USB implementation on the Modi) because I'd been curious to do a balanced connection into my THX AAA 789 amplifier. Switching back and forth, noticing increased bass slam and blacker background with Bifrost 2. Just a cleaner, more precise sound. Plus I prefer the black finish which better suits my setup. Very happy thus far!


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## kumar402

schneller said:


> So I'm confused.
> 
> On paper this thing seems to be "better" than both Yiggy and Gumby. Yiggy got its A2 treatment and I assume Unison is coming. Why all the silence on Gumby? I mean you'd be a fool to buy it after Bimby2 has been announced.
> 
> ...


I guess Unison upgrade for Gumby will be available from Jan 2020. However we have to send it back to Schiit.


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## knivek

So Unison is better than S/PDIF?  Also... can you put a Mjolnir2 on top of the Bifrost centered on it?  I really don't want insane amount of clutter from XLR cables.  Or even better, can the Bifrost sit on the leftern most side of the Mjolnir?


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## schneller

kumar402 said:


> I guess Unison upgrade for Gumby will be available from Jan 2020. However we have to send it back to Schiit.



Sorry but I think Gumby is long in the tooth. It needs a G2 version IMO. A Bifrost 2 but with a more advanced DAC setup and more advanced balanced output stage.


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## kumar402 (Sep 12, 2019)

schneller said:


> Sorry but I think Gumby is long in the tooth. It needs a G2 version IMO. A Bifrost 2 but with a more advanced DAC setup and more advanced balanced output stage.


I don't see how it has advanced balanced output stage and advanced dac then Gumby . Only thing is it has better USB


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## CaveManta (Sep 12, 2019)

TazedMarquis said:


> Upgraded from a Modi Multibit being fed with Eitr (due to the somewhat luckluster USB implementation on the Modi) because I'd been curious to do a balanced connection into my THX AAA 789 amplifier. Switching back and forth, noticing increased bass slam and blacker background with Bifrost 2. Just a cleaner, more precise sound. Plus I prefer the black finish which better suits my setup. Very happy thus far!
> [Clipped pic]


Coming from a Modi (albeit non multibit), your impressions match mine exactly. Everything sounds cleaner, and yet there is more impact in the bass. It hits hard and deep, especially in music that never seemed to have a lot of bass emphasis before. Very strange, yet satisfying.

PS: It looks pretty nice in black, especially with that PC build.


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## Wes S (Sep 13, 2019)

schneller said:


> Sorry but I think Gumby is long in the tooth. It needs a G2 version IMO. A Bifrost 2 but with a more advanced DAC setup and more advanced balanced output stage.


A well known and trusted reviewer on the other site has compared the Gumby, Yggy, and Bifrost 2.  He said that the Bifrost 2 is really good and perhaps a bit more darker and tame, than the Gumby and that if you like a little more excitement, or have built a system around the Gumby and are using balanced, then don't bother with the Bifrost 2.  So don't fret Gumby owners, unless you need more desk space and a safer sound.  He also said if you are using balanced with the Gumby, then the Bifrost 2 is a step down.  It seems the Bifrost 2 is a safer bet for matching up a new system.


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## TazedMarquis

kumar402 said:


> I don't see how it has advanced balanced output stage and advanced dac then Gumby . Only thing is it has better USB



I believe he was saying that a potential "Gungnir 2" should continue to utilize both a higher quality of DAC chip over the Bifrost 2 as well as use a discrete balanced output stage, while Bifrost 2 uses opamps due to space limitations in the chassis, to keep its status over the new Bifrost.


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## kumar402

TazedMarquis said:


> I believe he was saying that a potential "Gungnir 2" should continue to utilize both a higher quality of DAC chip over the Bifrost 2 as well as use a discrete balanced output stage, while Bifrost 2 uses opamps due to space limitations in the chassis, to keep its status over the new Bifrost.


Oh ok ya sorry I misunderstood.


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## knivek

@Jason Stoddard can you stack a Mjolnir2 on top of the Bifrost2?  

Putting in an order for a Bifrost2 shortly if so


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## XERO1 (Sep 13, 2019)

knivek said:


> @Jason Stoddard can you stack a Mjolnir2 on top of the Bifrost2?
> 
> Putting in an order for a Bifrost2 shortly if so


Not by itself, but I'm pretty sure with one of these you could. 

They're $30 bucks on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076HY53F2


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## Rensek

XERO1 said:


> Not by itself, but I'm pretty sure with one of these you could.
> 
> They're $30 bucks on Amazon.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076HY53F2



Ooooo I like that.


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## knivek

Welp, I ordered one with the 9" XLR cables too.  I hope I don't get any buzz noise like I am currently getting from my PC SoundblasterX AE-5 -> Mjolnir2 by going USB->Bifrost2.  Here's hoping!


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## Rensek

Good luck mate, let us know how it turns out.


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## Baten

knivek said:


> Welp, I ordered one with the 9" XLR cables too.  I hope I don't get any buzz noise like I am currently getting from my PC SoundblasterX AE-5 -> Mjolnir2 by going USB->Bifrost2.  Here's hoping!


With XLR that shouldn't happen


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## Allanmarcus (Sep 14, 2019)

I've done a lot more listening between the original multibit/gen 5 USB and the version 2/Unison. My set up is:

Hackintosh -> both DACs (USB) -> Mainline. The Mainline has two inputs, and the Mac can output to both DACs at the same time, so it's as simple as flicking the input switch to A/B test. I also tried having the Mac output to one DAC at a time, and switched DACs in the control panel at the same time flicking the input switch. I also switched the USB cables at one point to see if anything was related to the cables or the ports. I used the Fostex TH900 (with MrSpeaker doggie treats and hybrid velour/leather pads) and a utopia for the listening.

I let the DAC warm up for a few days. It sounded muffled the first hour or two. After that, it seemed to have stabilized.

I also closed my eyes while listening, concentrated, and looked as much as I could like an audiophile (holding my chin and bouncing my head to the music, maybe even a little swaying back and forth).

I listen to jazz, classical, and rock, instumentals, male and female vocalists.

I then switched to my SS amp, a DIY WHAMMY. I used a DIY switch box, so both DACs into the switch box, then into the WHAMMY.

All RCA cables are bluejeans.

My conclusion: I cannot hear a difference. YMMV based on many factors, but take all the reviews that hear "night and day" differences with a grain of hype-salt. Sure, it's possible there are differences in certain systems, but it's also possible they sound exactly the same.

I did notice a difference when I upgraded the Bifrost to Gen 5 USB. I used to have some USB issues, but they went away with Gen 5.

Note, I could barely hear differences between other DAC comparisons I've done in the past, but I could usually hear something. Between these two Bifrosts: nada.

That all said, the Bifrost is a great DAC, and I certainly recommend either version.

My rig:


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## Rensek

Allanmarcus said:


> I've done a lot more listening between the version 1/gen 5 USB and the version 2/Unison. My set up is:
> 
> Hackintosh -> both DACs (USB) -> Mainline. The Mainline has two inputs, and the Mac can output to both DACs at the same time, so it's as simple as flicking the input switch to A/B test. I also tried having the Mac output to one DAC at a time, and switched DACs in the control panel at the same time flicking the input switch. I also switched the USB cables at one point to see if anything was related to the cables or the ports. I used the Fostex TH900 (with MrSpeaker doggie treats and hybrid velour/leather pads) and a utopia for the listening.
> 
> ...



Is your version 1 a multibit or 4490, Uber 4399, or original 4399


----------



## Allanmarcus

Rensek said:


> Is your version 1 a multibit or 4490, Uber 4399, or original 4399


multibit. I will update the post.


----------



## Maishar

Could you please tell us how it is stacked against the RME ADI2?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Maishar said:


> Could you please tell us how it is stacked against the RME ADI2?


It stacks just to the right same self! 

I’ve only compared the Bifrost Multibit (not 2) to the RME. The RME is a very good DAC with lots of features. It compares very well against the Bifrost, sounds very similar.  There are filters and a ton of ways to adjust the sound on the RME. It also lists for $300 more than the Schiit. It’s amp section is meh, but it’s there if you want/need it. The RME has more features on the remote.

For a good, simple DAC, the Bifrost is great. If you want a lot of customization or volume on the remote, the RME is great.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Can anyone compare the new bifrost 2 vs the new denafrips ares 2 ?

I want to add one of these to my set-up

Thanks


----------



## knivek

Reeeee it's on the way


----------



## nahpungnome (Sep 17, 2019)

Allanmarcus, Thanks for your honest assessment.  I bought my original Gen5 Bifrost MB with the expectation that if an upgrade was available, I'd be able to do so if i chose to.  When I heard about the Bifrost 2, I was kinda disappointed since the whole description about not leaving us behind and no dumpster fodder just went into the trash bin.  Oh well, at least there's no significant difference between the two.


----------



## knivek

I think the biggest difference you would see between the 2 is the bifrost2 being a balanced output..


----------



## Wes S (Sep 17, 2019)

JerryLeeds said:


> Can anyone compare the new bifrost 2 vs the new denafrips ares 2 ?
> 
> I want to add one of these to my set-up
> 
> Thanks


There's the question!  Seems like direct competition (both are balanced), and they both are getting killer reviews.  I will say, that if you live in the U.S, I would assume warranty issues, will get handled easier, with the Schiit.


----------



## tafens

My Bifrost2 arrived today, having a quick listen..
using Lyr3 with multibit card installed, reissue Tung-Sol tube and HD6XX headphones. Initial impressions against the multibit card are.. favourable. More on that below.

Unfortunately the Bifrost2 is louder than the card so volume needs to be adjusted when changing between them. I hooked up both the BF2 and the card via USB to the computer and flip the input switch on the Lyr3 as well as changing output device on the computer to change between them (takes about 1-2 seconds).

The BF2 is clearly better in all regards I can think of, including soundstage, holography, realism, separation, transparency, effortlessness, vocals (that can be hauntingly realistic). Changing to the card and all “falls flat” (in comparison mind you, the card is really good too).

In short; the card is magic, the BF2 is (a lot) more magic!

WOW!-moment: Enigma - The platinum collection, song Voyageur (club mix)

Shivers down my spine-moment: Michael Jackson - Thriller, song Thriller (especially just before and when Vincent Price starts saying “darkness falls across the land...”)

I’m sure there will be more moments as the listen continues..


----------



## kumar402 (Sep 17, 2019)

Wes S said:


> There's the question!  Seems like direct competition (both are balanced), and they both are getting killer reviews.  I will say, that if you live in the U.S, I would assume warranty issues, will get handled easier, with the Schiit.


If I generalize based on my experience with NOS DAC then expect NOS DAC to have Thick, bassy sound with very organic and forward midrange and relaxed treble. This is based on my experience with Metrum Onyx. I don’t have 2ch setup right now so can’t comment on soundstaging. On my headphone setup I don’t feel any difference in soundstage of my Gungnir and Onyx.

Also Metrum/ Denafrips have better AES/ Coax input so if you are planning to use USB better use Schiit.


----------



## Allanmarcus

nahpungnome said:


> Allanmarcus, Thanks for your honest assessment.  I bought my original Gen5 Bifrost MB with the expectation that if an upgrade was available, I'd be able to do so if i chose to.  When I heard about the Bifrost 2, I was kinda disappointed since the whole description about not leaving us behind and no dumpster fodder just went into the trash bin.  Oh well, at least there's no significant difference between the two.


Your Bifrost will be upgradable to unison in January, from what I understand.


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> If I generalize based on my experience with NOS DAC then expect NOS DAC to have Thick, bassy sound with very organic and forward midrange and relaxed treble. This is based on my experience with Metrum Onyx. I don’t have 2ch setup right now so can’t comment on soundstaging. On my headphone setup I don’t feel any difference in soundstage of my Gungnir and Onyx.
> 
> Also Metrum/ Denafrips have better AES/ Coax input so if you are planning to use USB better use Schiit.


Well, I have to say, your description of an NOS dac, is my ideal sound sig.  I do plan to get either the Denafrips or Metrum NOS dac, one of these days, but for now my Gumby is doing the trick.


----------



## Baten

Wes S said:


> Well, I have to say, your description of an NOS dac, is my ideal sound sig.  I do plan to get either the Denafrips or Metrum NOS dac, one of these days, but for now my Gumby is doing the trick.


Consider TDA1541 DAC like audial or diy builds, very good bang for Buck!

Imo holo spring is best NOS DAC but $$$$ pricy


----------



## Wes S

Baten said:


> Consider TDA1541 DAC like audial or diy builds, very good bang for Buck!
> 
> Imo holo spring is best NOS DAC but $$$$ pricy


Thanks!  I will look into those.  The Holo Spring, is and has been on my wish list, for a while.


----------



## nahpungnome

Allanmarcus said:


> Your Bifrost will be upgradable to unison in January, from what I understand.


Yeah I think I read that somewhere, but what does going from Gen5 to that really do?  I have no issues with the current USB interface.  The upgradable part that I'd be interested would be the DAC portion itself, ie going from the 4490 to the AD.  Doesn't seem that option is available or they would've made that as the next step up....but who knows, maybe they have that on the back burner or not even possible.

If there's no difference then there's no point it seems to upgrade anyway.  I'm not unhappy with the sound of my current setup at all, but I guess GAS gets me at times


----------



## tcellguy

Mine just arrived 

I'll post more once it's stabilized and I've formed more impressions. That said, cold and out of the box it is a dramatic improvement over Eitr > Modi Multibit. 

The overall impression is greater detail retrieval and bass definition with reduced digital glare and an overall smoother presentation. The decay on notes is very detailed and treble is much clearer with minimal fatiguing hash. I'm currently listening balanced with the Jotunheim. 

This is really impressive.


----------



## knivek

I am hoping mine shows up today..  based on reading everyone's initial thoughts, I am getting so hyped!


----------



## Allanmarcus

nahpungnome said:


> Yeah I think I read that somewhere, but what does going from Gen5 to that really do?  I have no issues with the current USB interface.  The upgradable part that I'd be interested would be the DAC portion itself, ie going from the 4490 to the AD.  Doesn't seem that option is available or they would've made that as the next step up....but who knows, maybe they have that on the back burner or not even possible.
> 
> If there's no difference then there's no point it seems to upgrade anyway.  I'm not unhappy with the sound of my current setup at all, but I guess GAS gets me at times



If you have the 4490 version, you can upgrade to MultiBit now. 



tcellguy said:


> Mine just arrived
> 
> I'll post more once it's stabilized and I've formed more impressions. That said, cold and out of the box it is a dramatic improvement over Eitr > Modi Multibit.
> 
> ...



wow. Mine sounds like shiit (the bead, smelly kind) out of the box. Mine took a few hours to warm up. OOTB, it sounds muffled, with very undefined bass. Once wormed up, it would great (exactly like the Bifrost Multibit version 1).


----------



## nahpungnome

Allanmarcus said:


> If you have the 4490 version, you can upgrade to MultiBit now..



I have a Gen5 MultiBit, I was just using the DAC upgrade portion as an example of an upgrade that I'd actually be interested in. ie going to the Bifrost 2's DAC portion.


----------



## rkw

nahpungnome said:


> I have a Gen5 MultiBit, I was just using the DAC upgrade portion as an example of an upgrade that I'd actually be interested in. ie going to the Bifrost 2's DAC portion.


There will be no upgrade for the DAC portion of the original Bifrost. Instead, Schiit is offering original Bifrost owners a $100 discount on purchase of Bifrost 2.
Explained here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3313#post-15152491


----------



## nahpungnome

rkw said:


> There will be no upgrade for the DAC portion of the original Bifrost. Instead, Schiit is offering original Bifrost owners a $100 discount on purchase of Bifrost 2.
> Explained here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3313#post-15152491



The way I see that is it's a $600 upgrade instead of $700 new lol.

I'm fine with my Bifrost mb, but I'll not look at a DAC or head amp and see the upgradability as a huge feature anymore.


----------



## tcellguy

Allanmarcus said:


> If you have the 4490 version, you can upgrade to MultiBit now.
> 
> 
> 
> wow. Mine sounds like shiit (the bead, smelly kind) out of the box. Mine took a few hours to warm up. OOTB, it sounds muffled, with very undefined bass. Once wormed up, it would great (exactly like the Bifrost Multibit version 1).



Yeah the bass quantity increased throughout the day and mids opened up a bit. To me, however, it still sounded great cold  

What amp were you using? I've been using the Jot balanced all day, which has pretty tight defined bass and forward mids so maybe that helped. The Bifrost 2 + Jot balanced really sounds great.


----------



## Allanmarcus

tcellguy said:


> Yeah the bass quantity increased throughout the day and mids opened up a bit. To me, however, it still sounded great cold
> 
> What amp were you using? I've been using the Jot balanced all day, which has pretty tight defined bass and forward mids so maybe that helped. The Bifrost 2 + Jot balanced really sounds great.


I use a mainline and a whammy. My set up allows me to directly A/B between the old and new bifrost. There was no comparison when the new one was cold. It sounded like crap cold compared to the old one (warm). Once the new one warmed up for an hour, it was fine. 

I realize this nears close to audio science, but I just don’t see how a person can compare something as subtle as a DAC with out instant A/B testing. That’s just me.


----------



## tcellguy

I see, that makes sense. I might try A/Bing the SE vs. balanced on the Jot with the Bifrost vs. Modi Multibit for fun.


----------



## Allanmarcus

tcellguy said:


> I see, that makes sense. I might try A/Bing the SE vs. balanced on the Jot with the Bifrost vs. Modi Multibit for fun.


The challenge there is the volume. The balanced output of the Bifrost will be much higher than the SE output of the Modi.


----------



## tcellguy

Ah right. Well my Gillmore Lite Mk2 has two SE inputs. I'll give that a try at some point.


----------



## udntcme

tafens said:


> My Bifrost2 arrived today, having a quick listen..
> using Lyr3 with multibit card installed, reissue Tung-Sol tube and HD6XX headphones. Initial impressions against the multibit card are.. favourable. More on that below.
> 
> Unfortunately the Bifrost2 is louder than the card so volume needs to be adjusted when changing between them. I hooked up both the BF2 and the card via USB to the computer and flip the input switch on the Lyr3 as well as changing output device on the computer to change between them (takes about 1-2 seconds).
> ...


Sounds good, thanks for sharing.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Here is a stupid question ... 

The schiit website shows a pic of the new bifrost 2 in black ... The side panel shown appears to be silver ... Is that due to lighting and shadows? Is the whole unit black (top and both sides) ... Again sorry for the stupid question


----------



## rascalion

JerryLeeds said:


> Here is a stupid question ...
> 
> The schiit website shows a pic of the new bifrost 2 in black ... The side panel shown appears to be silver ... Is that due to lighting and shadows? Is the whole unit black (top and both sides) ... Again sorry for the stupid question



The side panel, actually it's part of the inner/bottom chassis, on the majority of their products is a gray steel. I have the Asgard 3 in black and can confirm the bottom chassis including the sides is not black.


----------



## schneller

Has anyone compared: 
Unison > Bifrost2 > SE 
versus 
Gen5/Eitr > Gumby > SE?


----------



## Mkoll

Got my Bifrost yesterday and initial impressions are very positive. It's a big step up in every respect from the SMSL SU-8, as it should be considering the massive price difference. What strikes me most is the bass improvement: extension, slam, rumble, everything about the bass is better. My TH-900 rattles my skull on certain tracks where it didn't before. Resolution, dynamics, and separation are noticeably improved as well. Very happy with the purchase.

PC running Tidal > USB -> Bifrost -> XLR -> Massdrop THX 789


----------



## JoeKickass

I noticed the default bitrate for my Bifrost 2 was set at 32/192 out of the box, which is odd because I thought the max supported was 24/192
Anyone else try it on the higher bitrate? Not sure if I can tell a difference to be honest, but I don't have the best ears...


----------



## tcellguy

Interesting, on my Mac it was also defaulting to 32/192. I changed it to 16/44.1 (it clicks when you change it), which I think enables it to use its own filter for oversampling (please someone correct me if I'm wrong). I use Audirvana with it set to no additional oversampling. I read somewhere Bifrost will 4x oversample based on its own filter.


----------



## Baten

tcellguy said:


> Interesting, on my Mac it was also defaulting to 32/192. I changed it to 16/44.1 (it clicks when you change it), which I think enables it to use its own filter for oversampling (please someone correct me if I'm wrong). I use Audirvana with it set to no additional oversampling. I read somewhere Bifrost will 4x oversample based on its own filter.


Correct. New bifrost is 8x, even. 4x OS was old bifrost.


----------



## humblesquad

Mkoll said:


> Got my Bifrost yesterday and initial impressions are very positive. It's a big step up in every respect from the SMSL SU-8, as it should be considering the massive price difference. What strikes me most is the bass improvement: extension, slam, rumble, everything about the bass is better. My TH-900 rattles my skull on certain tracks where it didn't before. Resolution, dynamics, and separation are noticeably improved as well. Very happy with the purchase.
> 
> PC running Tidal > USB -> Bifrost -> XLR -> Massdrop THX 789



How good is Bifrost 2 at soundstage in comparison to SU-8? I prefer SU-8 to Mimby because of large soundstage.


----------



## Mkoll

Baten said:


> Correct. New bifrost is 8x, even. 4x OS was old bifrost.


Can you please tell us the source of this info?



humblesquad said:


> How good is Bifrost 2 at soundstage in comparison to SU-8? I prefer SU-8 to Mimby because of large soundstage.


It's better than the SU-8 though not as big of a gain as bass and detail retrieval IMO


----------



## rkw

Mkoll said:


> Can you please tell us the source of this info?


For Bifrost 2:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3323#post-15154666
Bifrost 1 was non-oversampling for 172/196 streams, hence 4x.


----------



## Baten

rkw said:


> For Bifrost 2:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3323#post-15154666
> Bifrost 1 was non-oversampling for 172/196 streams, hence 4x.


Yep thanks for the reference


----------



## tafens

humblesquad said:


> How good is Bifrost 2 at soundstage in comparison to SU-8? I prefer SU-8 to Mimby because of large soundstage.



Compared to the multibit card, which is the same tech as Modi multibit, the Bifrost2 definitely has the better soundstage. The difference is not subtle; the BF2 is on another level completely, in every regard.

I don’t know how the SU-8 performs, though.


----------



## Rensek

Jason confirmed elsewhere that Bifrost 2 gets 8x sampling. Which I believe is the megacomboburrito filter that yggdrasil and Gungnir MB both have. To me this is one of the largest improvements made to the Bifrost 2, at least on paper.


----------



## JoeKickass

Is the filter in use for all bitrates, or do we have to set the Bifrost 2 to 16/44.1 in order to get the benefits of the filter?


----------



## Rensek (Sep 20, 2019)

JoeKickass said:


> Is the filter in use for all bitrates, or do we have to set the Bifrost 2 to 16/44.1 in order to get the benefits of the filter?



My understanding is the filter is in play, but the higher the native resolution, the less it samples..

The yggy faq talks a about 8,4,2, and 1x sampling depending upon incoming resolution.

https://www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil

I believe 16/44.1 gets us to 8x with 4x,2x1xthe higher up we go in quality of source material.


----------



## aumont00

Open question about schiit bifrost 2:
If you could have a used gungnir mb gen5 A2 for about the same price as a brand new bifrost 2, what would you choose?
From what I have read, the gungnir is still a little bit better right?


----------



## JoeKickass

aumont00 said:


> Open question about schiit bifrost 2:
> If you could have a used gungnir mb gen5 A2 for about the same price as a brand new bifrost 2, what would you choose?
> From what I have read, the gungnir is still a little bit better right?


Bifrost 2 definitely!

It has the new "Autonomy" design where the whole usb and dac circuit boards can be removed and swapped out, plus a sd card slot for firmware upgrades, definitely more future-proof.


----------



## Rensek

I'd take Gungnir 2, but I like the design, and it's got 4 DAC chips vs 2.

But you also lose the remote, and user upgradeability. Tough call. Gungnir is likely to be updated at some point (my speculative opinion), so maybe see if you can get the price down more.


----------



## knivek

So finally got the DAC after a bloody NIGHTMARE with FedEx.

Needless to say.  I am BLOWN away by the difference in going from a SoundblasterX AE-5 -> Aeon Flow Closed to PC-USB Unison->Bifrost2->Mjolnir2 XLR->AFC XLR.

It is worth every penny spent.


----------



## theveterans

Not gonna lie but the Bifrost 2 to my nearfield speakers pretty much killed my listening time with my portable IEMs ever since I received it. A good DAC with a decent entry level nearfield bookshelf speaker setup just blows away my Mojo -> Andromeda portable setup. Can't justify spending multikilobucks on IEMs that still sound worse than a common nearfield speaker found in a home studio


----------



## Rensek

I use nearfields in my office. Def tech 350's powered by a Emotiva A-100 gen 1 Bifrost, Loki. It's pretty stellar. 

I'd imagine a Bifrost 2 would be a nice improvement in my setup.


----------



## bigbenrfan99

Reading through this thread, it seems to be the consensus that the Bifrost 2 is a significant upgrade from the Modi Multibit.  In my system, I would be using the coaxial input and the SE output to a Lyr 3.  Should I expect a clear improvement, or is that mostly related to the balanced output/upgraded USB input?


----------



## tafens

bigbenrfan99 said:


> Reading through this thread, it seems to be the consensus that the Bifrost 2 is a significant upgrade from the Modi Multibit.  In my system, I would be using the coaxial input and the SE output to a Lyr 3.  Should I expect a clear improvement, or is that mostly related to the balanced output/upgraded USB input?



In short: I most definitely think so.
In a few more words: The improvement going from Lyr3 multibit card via USB to instead Bifrost2 via USB and on to Lyr3 by RCA is significant. I don’t know how much of the improvement is due to Unison USB vs gen2 and how much is the better multibit tech, but I suspect the better multibit capability of the BF2 is the most contributing factor.


----------



## knivek

Is Bifrost supposed to run as hot as the Mjolnir?


----------



## kumar402

knivek said:


> Is Bifrost supposed to run as hot as the Mjolnir?


well Multibit runs a bit warm. My Gungnir gets warm, won't say hot.


----------



## tcellguy

knivek said:


> Is Bifrost supposed to run as hot as the Mjolnir?


I had it under my Jotunheim, but both got pretty hot. Now I have it next to it, and both are just warm.


----------



## Rensek

It is Class A output, so it's going to be warm to a point. Plus it's a sealed design. All of my schiit runs warm, including the original Bifrost.


----------



## JoeKickass (Sep 22, 2019)

Rensek said:


> My understanding is the filter is in play, but the higher the native resolution, the less it samples..
> 
> The yggy faq talks a about 8,4,2, and 1x sampling depending upon incoming resolution.
> 
> ...



Ok I think I figured it out:

When I was listening to Amazon HD music I couldn't hear any difference between the bitrate settings, so I left it at 24/192.
But when I put on a video file with low quality audio it sounded like crap with the Bifrost set to 24/192, so I changed it to 16/44 and there was a very noticeable improvement!

It looks like the bitrate setting in the properties determines what is sent to the Bifrost, and if you play crap audio with the setting at 24/192, the Bifrost can't use it's filter.
At the same time, if you have good 24/192 music and have the setting on 16/44, then I think you are losing some information from the file, but the Bifrost filter is actually filling it back in.

What would be nice if there was a way to have it auto-adjust to whatever audio quality you are playing...


----------



## tcellguy

JoeKickass said:


> Ok I think I figured it out:
> 
> When I was listening to Amazon HD music I couldn't hear any difference between the bitrate settings, so I left it at 24/192.
> But when I put on a video file with low quality audio it sounded like crap with the Bifrost set to 24/192, so I changed it to 16/44 and there was a very noticeable improvement!
> ...



If you are using a bit-perfect solution like Audirvana you can specify no forced oversampling. In that case the Bifrost automatically adjusts (clicks) when the file bit-rate changes.


----------



## Baten

JoeKickass said:


> Ok I think I figured it out:
> 
> When I was listening to Amazon HD music I couldn't hear any difference between the bitrate settings, so I left it at 24/192.
> But when I put on a video file with low quality audio it sounded like crap with the Bifrost set to 24/192, so I changed it to 16/44 and there was a very noticeable improvement!
> ...


So basically you need exclusive mode


----------



## rudibe (Sep 23, 2019)

My experience with Bifrost 2 (230V version) has been very disappointing. I had to return two units.

The first unit exhibited random issues somewhere within the DAC where the audio output would appear as if a very strong low pass or a comb-like filter was applied to the output. The issue would get triggered every so often whenever the audio stream was being locked on, either when seeking thru a song or when toggling the muting using the remote control. I could replicate this on the USB and optical inputs, so the new Unison receiver was not to be blamed. Every once in awhile the right channel would also get extreme quantization-like noise on the right channel, I managed to get a song to play like that and I have a recording of it. RMA'd.

The second unit had an extremely loud transformer hum and no sound output, essentially DOA. The enclosure and even the power cable would vibrate to a point where it functioned more like an electric razor than a DAC.

The audio recordings of the first issue (white noise test while triggering the muting and/or toggling the source and the distorted right channel) and the video of the transformer humming away are available here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/m8mobxy0073k09e/AADh-8lNffpEZCHZr2Mv56fda?dl=0

I've read some reviews that noted that the playback seemed to be "muted" in the first couple of hours of playing back, that might be related to the issue that I had with the first unit. Hopefully, I'll get some feedback from Schiit on what went wrong with these two units, as I quite liked the sound when compared to Jotunheim's MB DAC card. Looks like their new platform isn't quite there yet and I wouldn't feel confident with yet another replacement from the same production run.


----------



## aumont00

Ho my, its unfortunate, since everybody seems to like the sound. Hope they will manage to ship you a good unit.


----------



## knivek

Schiit is an amazing company so far with my limited dealings with them. I am sure they will do whatever they can!


----------



## JoeKickass

rudibe said:


> My experience with Bifrost 2 (230V version) has been very disappointing. I had to return two units... Looks like their new platform isn't quite there yet and I wouldn't feel confident with yet another replacement from the same production run.


How unfortunate! It's always annoying when things don't work...

However, all electronics have DOA units, even Apple and Samsung. And while other companies might give up on you after 2 rotten eggs, Schiit is not one of those companies.
If you give them a chance they will make sure you end up with a working Bifrost, and after you listen to it and live with it I think you will quickly forget the rocky start you had!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

rudibe said:


> My experience with Bifrost 2 (230V version) has been very disappointing. I had to return two units.
> 
> The first unit exhibited random issues somewhere within the DAC where the audio output would appear as if a very strong low pass or a comb-like filter was applied to the output. The issue would get triggered every so often whenever the audio stream was being locked on, either when seeking thru a song or when toggling the muting using the remote control. I could replicate this on the USB and optical inputs, so the new Unison receiver was not to be blamed. Every once in awhile the right channel would also get extreme quantization-like noise on the right channel, I managed to get a song to play like that and I have a recording of it. RMA'd.
> 
> ...



Sorry for the trouble. We've been chasing down a problem that was finally identified--a bad batch of surface-mount capacitors. If you're having trouble with your Bifrost 2, let us know, and we'll either swap it out (rapid replace/return, no need to wait for it to come back to us) or, if you just want to move on, we'll issue a full refund, including all shipping.


----------



## jcn3

nahpungnome said:


> The way I see that is it's a $600 upgrade instead of $700 new lol.
> 
> I'm fine with my Bifrost mb, but I'll not look at a DAC or head amp and see the upgradability as a huge feature anymore.



AND you also get to keep your current bf multibit and/or sell it.


----------



## jcn3

JoeKickass said:


> I noticed the default bitrate for my Bifrost 2 was set at 32/192 out of the box, which is odd because I thought the max supported was 24/192
> Anyone else try it on the higher bitrate? Not sure if I can tell a difference to be honest, but I don't have the best ears...



make sure you also enable "exclusive mode" -- it's in the box below that drop down (covered in your pic).


----------



## jcn3 (Sep 23, 2019)

theveterans said:


> Not gonna lie but the Bifrost 2 to my nearfield speakers pretty much killed my listening time with my portable IEMs ever since I received it. A good DAC with a decent entry level nearfield bookshelf speaker setup just blows away my Mojo -> Andromeda portable setup. Can't justify spending multikilobucks on IEMs that still sound worse than a common nearfield speaker found in a home studio



i agree -- my desktop system completely blows away my headphone setup.  not even close.  i even downgraded from stax sr-l700 and a mjolnir audio kgsshv -- just couldn't justify the cost.


----------



## Mkoll

Gotta say I love the magnetic remote, a nice touch. Just stuck it to the side of the Bifrost.


----------



## knivek

Didn't even know it was magnetic lol


----------



## Currawong

When I was looking at the remote, I couldn't work out why the heck it was a: magnetic, and b: seemed to be screw-less and the battery not replaceable. Then I pried at the black button surface with a fingernail, and it came up!  It is held in place with magnets!

I forgot to add that to the review, as it is pretty clever I reckon.


----------



## mrip541

How, exactly, do I get the $100 bifrost owner discount?


----------



## knivek

Its on their FAQ page. You provide proof of purchase.


Every Bifrost owner or upgrader gets $100 off? What does that mean?
It means that if you bought a Bifrost from us or an authorized reseller, or if you purchased a Bifrost upgrade from us—basically, if you've given us any money at all towards a Bifrost at any time—you get Bifrost 2 for $599, not $699.

How do I get this $100 off?
Put a note on your order with proof of purchase of a Bifrost or Bifrost upgrade (like an order number). If necessary, we'll contact you to verify this.


----------



## StageOne

Had a chance to hear a Bifrost 2 last weekend and it compared very well to the Gungnir.  Biggest difference for me was the depth and seperation of instruments the Gungnir had.  But I feel the BF2 had a touch more bass.  Both were fed via USB and balanced out to a Mjolnir 2.  Really impressed Schiit was able to create this at the price point!


----------



## aumont00

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Im really torn whether to get a used Gungnir MB A2 Gen5 or the new bifrost 2... so close in price


----------



## bboris77

I think I will be sticking with my Bifrost Multibit for now mainly because I have no use for the balanced outputs and because of the 22ms audio latency that the 8x oversampling brings. Jason, would it be possible to bring back the 4x oversampling option as a "gaming mode" to the Bifrost 2 via a firmware update? It would be awesome to have the option to switch to a lower latency mode when you are gaming and go back to the full oversampling mode for music listening. 

I also think that there definitely is a space for a regular non-upgradable DAC that matches the new Asgard or Lyr form factor with an AKM4490 chip and discrete analog stage. Bifrost 2 price point is quite steep and there is a huge price gap between it and the Modi 3 (which I own and love as well!).


----------



## motberg

Is anyone running Windows with Kernel Streaming yet?


----------



## Randonneur

knivek said:


> Is Bifrost supposed to run as hot as the Mjolnir?



I wouldn't call my Bifrost hot at all. It's a bit warm, but I can comfortably keep my hand on it. I was expecting it to run hot.


----------



## schneller

StageOne said:


> Had a chance to hear a Bifrost 2 last weekend and it compared very well to the Gungnir.  Biggest difference for me was the depth and seperation of instruments the Gungnir had.  But I feel the BF2 had a touch more bass.  Both were fed via USB and balanced out to a Mjolnir 2.  Really impressed Schiit was able to create this at the price point!



It's safe to say that Gungnir will get a real "2" version or something and it too will be special. Will it stay the same price? Will it be even closer to Yiggy in performance? Better in some ways? Different? 

I'm sure we'll know in the next few months.


----------



## marsza11

it's offered in black. resist...


----------



## Inoculator

Jason Stoddard said:


> Sorry for the trouble. We've been chasing down a problem that was finally identified--a bad batch of surface-mount capacitors. If you're having trouble with your Bifrost 2, let us know, and we'll either swap it out (rapid replace/return, no need to wait for it to come back to us) or, if you just want to move on, we'll issue a full refund, including all shipping.



Mine has been working great so far, but was ordered the first day from the initial batch. Symptoms of the bad capacitors we should be looking out for?


----------



## Currawong

The symptoms I saw people write about who had the bad caps were of very obvious distortion.


----------



## Alcophone

Inoculator said:


> Mine has been working great so far, but was ordered the first day from the initial batch. Symptoms of the bad capacitors we should be looking out for?


First day order here as well, received in the afternoon, worked until the early morning hours, left it on, when I came back: dead. Don't know whether the bad caps were the cause, though.
Replacement is working great, running 24/7. Getting pretty hot during days like this.


----------



## Inoculator

Alcophone said:


> First day order here as well, received in the afternoon, worked until the early morning hours, left it on, when I came back: dead. Don't know whether the bad caps were the cause, though.
> Replacement is working great, running 24/7. Getting pretty hot during days like this.



Well, sounds like it would be obvious at least. Interesting about the heat. I notice it certainly doesn't run cool, but has not been getting to any levels of heat that concern me. Using in stack with a Jotunheim at work, both on 24/7.


----------



## Alcophone

Inoculator said:


> Well, sounds like it would be obvious at least. Interesting about the heat. I notice it certainly doesn't run cool, but has not been getting to any levels of heat that concern me. Using in stack with a Jotunheim at work, both on 24/7.


I had a Jotunheim (off when not in use) on top as well. Briefly had this setup with the new one:




Both seemed to run a bit cooler this way.

Now the Bifrost 2 is under a glass monitor riser and the Jotunheim is on top of the riser. We're having a heatwave in San Francisco right now and the Bifrost 2 is unpleasantly hot just idling. About as hot as the Yggdrasil in a cabinet with a door (but no rear walls), which I've been using all day. Meanwhile, the Ragnarok 2 on top of the cabinet is merely handwarm while powering my speakers. Those heatsinks are very effective.


----------



## quimbo

Alcophone said:


> I had a Jotunheim (off when not in use) on top as well. Briefly had this setup with the new one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I bought these anti-vibrations pads - https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 - mentioned in one of the threads.  I placed them between the Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3.  The heat around the Lyr3 is not as hot as it used to be


----------



## Rapid7

Just a quick question for Bifrost 2 owners, when first switching the unit on the front source and inverter lights flash for around 10 seconds then go out then start flashing again & then finally the unit clicks?

Thanks.


----------



## tafens

Rapid7 said:


> Just a quick question for Bifrost 2 owners, when first switching the unit on the front source and inverter lights flash for around 10 seconds then go out then start flashing again & then finally the unit clicks?
> 
> Thanks.



Yes.
When the lights stop flashing the USB input light is on, but there is no click until I connect the USB to the laptop later.
I usually turn it and the amp on one hour or so before listening to warm up while I have other things to tend to.


----------



## Rapid7 (Sep 26, 2019)

Thanks, mines connected via usb to a desktop pc so that would be why mine clicks straight after the lights stop flashing and the usb input light is illuminated.

Just a heads up that there is a new filmware update available.

*Bifrost 2 Current Firmware:* Bifrost 2 C0088, D0105
*Release Date: *9/26/2019

*Release notes:* This maintenance release eliminates USB lockout and solves incompatibility with some third party remote controls. No sound changes. Recommended for all Bifrost 2 owners.

https://www.schiit.com/firmware


----------



## Rensek

I think their new autonomy platform is already showing its value. Pretty cool to push this out as quickly as they have.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Rensek said:


> I think their new autonomy platform is already showing its value. Pretty cool to push this out as quickly as they have.



We'll also be sending new firmware on MicroSD cards out next week to all owners. The firmware is available now on the site, but if you hold on till next week, you won't have to write your own SD card.


----------



## Alcophone

Jason Stoddard said:


> We'll also be sending new firmware on MicroSD cards out next week to all owners. The firmware is available now on the site, but if you hold on till next week, you won't have to write your own SD card.


That's a nice service, but I for one have plenty of micro SD cards flying around. I'm wondering how many of the users would prefer you spending money on a (presumably cheap, thus kind of throw away) card and postage over using what they may already have.


----------



## Alcophone

Taking a closer look, the firmware website specifically suggests formatting the SD card with "32KB cluster/allocation unit size", which a random SD card may not already have, and maybe you don't want to reformat it because it has data on it. To find out the cluster size on Windows, hit Win+R, type cmd, hit Enter, type "wmic volume get driveletter,blocksize" (without the quotes), hit enter. The SD card I had was in D:, so "32768      D:" told me it had the specified cluster size (1 KB = 1024 Bytes, so 32 x 1024 = 32768).

I installed the firmware update, and it looks like it worked! I can cycle through all three inputs even with the USB cord disconnected. Thanks, Jason!

Is that something you would tell people about via the Newsletter ("Spam" link on Schiit?)


----------



## knivek

Best company i have ever dealt with. @Jason Stoddard You are a legend.


----------



## nerone

Jason Stoddard said:


> We'll also be sending new firmware on MicroSD cards out next week to all owners. The firmware is available now on the site, but if you hold on till next week, you won't have to write your own SD card.


Hey @Jason Stoddard 
As a future improvement for the autonomy platform you could have the option to allow the end user to make some minor customization, like disable some of the inputs if not needed. Something similar to what Devialet makes, a webpage where you click some options and download the firmware. Then those who only need two won't have to go through the one unused. I don't know what else could be firmware dependent, but this is a start.


----------



## Baten

nerone said:


> Hey @Jason Stoddard
> As a future improvement for the autonomy platform you could have the option to allow the end user to make some minor customization, like disable some of the inputs if not needed. Something similar to what Devialet makes, a webpage where you click some options and download the firmware. Then those who only need two won't have to go through the one unused. I don't know what else could be firmware dependent, but this is a start.


Sounds largely unnecessary..


----------



## tincanear

nerone said:


> Hey @Jason Stoddard
> As a future improvement for the autonomy platform you could have the option to allow the end user to make some minor customization, like disable some of the inputs if not needed. Something similar to what Devialet makes, a webpage where you click some options and download the firmware. Then those who only need two won't have to go through the one unused. I don't know what else could be firmware dependent, but this is a start.


and then what happens some time in the future when you forget about the customized lockout and add more inputs, or worse, re-sell the unit to someone else  
more customization = more that can go wrong.  remember Honda motor company's slogan "we make it simple"


----------



## nerone

Baten said:


> Sounds largely unnecessary..



I didn't say it was necessary, it is optional, like upgrading the USB card in the future. It will work as is, but can be more suited to your needs.



tincanear said:


> and then what happens some time in the future when you forget about the customized lockout and add more inputs, or worse, re-sell the unit to someone else
> more customization = more that can go wrong.  remember Honda motor company's slogan "we make it simple"



Sure, simple is reliable. But if a person has a problem in the future, he can do as anyone should: read the manual and follow the instructions or contact tech support at Schiit. 
It is likely that we will have to update the firmware to use new boards anyway, I guess this is the reason why the end user can update the firmware on his own, considering that to upgrade to new USB boards people had to send units back to Schiit to update the firmware for some of the products.


----------



## kdoof

I wonder if this bad batch of components will result in some b-stock Bifrost 2's. I'd be on board for that


----------



## Rensek

kdoof said:


> I wonder if this bad batch of components will result in some b-stock Bifrost 2's. I'd be on board for that



Methinks it will be awhile before we see b stock on Bifrost. Has anyone noticed b stock on Aegir, Ragnarok 2, or the new Sagas & Freyas yet? I haven't, and I'm a serial b stock checker.


----------



## kdoof

Rensek said:


> Methinks it will be awhile before we see b stock on Bifrost. Has anyone noticed b stock on Aegir, Ragnarok 2, or the new Sagas & Freyas yet? I haven't, and I'm a serial b stock checker.


I just figured if they had installed a bad batch of components and needed to reconfigure those that were already assembled that might constitute b-stock. I ordered a Bifrost 2 and the order won't be ready until next week so I think they're ironing out their supply issues before sending out any more BF2's.


----------



## Rensek

kdoof said:


> I just figured if they had installed a bad batch of components and needed to reconfigure those that were already assembled that might constitute b-stock. I ordered a Bifrost 2 and the order won't be ready until next week so I think they're ironing out their supply issues before sending out any more BF2's.



I'm not saying they don't have b stock, I'm just speculating it might be awhile before we see b stock offered for sale


----------



## Alcophone (Sep 27, 2019)

Inoculator said:


> Symptoms of the bad capacitors we should be looking out for?





Currawong said:


> The symptoms I saw people write about who had the bad caps were of very obvious distortion.


My replacement unit (after running fine 24/7 for over two weeks, and receiving the new firmware yesterday) also flashed all three LEDs just now. Power cycling brought it back to life, though - and I can't detect any distortion, either. So I guess the symptoms vary.
I sent an email to orders@schiit.com.


----------



## liquidsmote

Alcophone said:


> My replacement unit (after running fine 24/7 for over two weeks, and receiving the new firmware yesterday) also flashed all three LEDs just now. Power cycling brought it back to life, though - and I can't detect any distortion, either. So I guess the symptoms vary.
> I sent an email to orders@schiit.com.



Same here. My initial unit did the 3 LED flash after 3 hours of use, sound cut out completely, but no distortion. Functionality resumed after a restart of the DAC. I sent my unit in for replacement on last Monday and waiting on a new unit to be shipped.


----------



## Ripper2860

Jason has stated that the 'board not recognized / 3-flashing lights' issue has been identified as a bad capacitor and are now out of the system w/ currently shipping units not having those pesky bad caps.  He has also stated that the aliasing/distortion issue has been identified and resolved with new firmware and all currently shipping units have been updated. 

Thanks for your effort and communication, @Jason Stoddard .   I have placed my order and am giddy at the prospect of pairing it with my Lyr 3!!!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Great to hear because my bifrost was shipped today at 2:20pm est


----------



## RestoredSparda

Mine shipped today as well. Glad they are getting a handle on the small issues.  I know they put a ton of work into them and always make things right. Happy to support them with my cash.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Jason has stated that the 'board not recognized / 3-flashing lights' issue has been identified as a bad capacitor and are now out of the system w/ currently shipping units not having those pesky bad caps. He has also stated that the aliasing/distortion issue has been identified and resolved with new firmware and all currently shipping units have been updated.



I got mine before the bad caps were discovered, but it’s still working fine and I haven’t experienced the USB lockout either.

@Jason Stoddard were all caps sub par in the bad batch, or are only some units in risk of failing?
If the cap/caps fail, will it go blinky-blinky immediately or could there be more subtle issues first? Also, is it possible to check by serial number if an unit has caps from that batch?



Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks for your effort and communication, @Jason Stoddard . I have placed my order and am giddy at the prospect of pairing it with my Lyr 3!!!



It is a very, very nice pairing indeed 
I don’t think you will be disappointed, the Bifrost2 is a significant step up, from the multibit dac card, and Modi multibit, in every regard I can think of - and the Lyr3 responds beautifully to it.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I need to go back to enjoy the music


----------



## Jason Stoddard

tafens said:


> I got mine before the bad caps were discovered, but it’s still working fine and I haven’t experienced the USB lockout either.
> 
> @Jason Stoddard were all caps sub par in the bad batch, or are only some units in risk of failing?
> If the cap/caps fail, will it go blinky-blinky immediately or could there be more subtle issues first? Also, is it possible to check by serial number if an unit has caps from that batch?



Not all caps are bad, and the fails are obvious--as in, the product stops working, period, deader, toast, finis. 

Mine has been working fine on my desk since launch, no bad caps, no firmware issues, which is the case for about 93% of all Bifrost 2s out there, according to our data. However, the difference between 93% and 99.5% (a typical launch) is night and day. Due to this, everyone in customer service knows that Bifrost 2s get an expanded rapid return/exchange window to catch any other problems, and we have sent new firmware to every Bifrost 2 owner on microSD card. If you're having problems, update your firmware and then contact us if that doesn't solve it.


----------



## tafens

Jason Stoddard said:


> Not all caps are bad, and the fails are obvious--as in, the product stops working, period, deader, toast, finis.
> 
> Mine has been working fine on my desk since launch, no bad caps, no firmware issues, which is the case for about 93% of all Bifrost 2s out there, according to our data. However, the difference between 93% and 99.5% (a typical launch) is night and day. Due to this, everyone in customer service knows that Bifrost 2s get an expanded rapid return/exchange window to catch any other problems, and we have sent new firmware to every Bifrost 2 owner on microSD card. If you're having problems, update your firmware and then contact us if that doesn't solve it.



Thanks for the info and clarification on this. Looks like I’m in the 93% with no issues still, and I’ve been using it daily for the past two weeks since I got it (and loving every minute of it).

I’ll be sure to install the new firmware as soon as it gets here anyway, but I guess it needs a few more days to get over the big pond


----------



## kdoof

BF3 arrived today, and I've had it plugged in since this morning for some warm-up. Initial impressions (with the Asgard 3) are that it is more laid-back than my BFM -- but in a potentially positive way. It's more gently resolving, much more open and spacious, which allows a lot of extra detail and layering to reveal itself. Reverb and delay effects are almost overwhelming compared to what I'm used to. I'm going to give myself time to acclimate and then do some A/Bing but honestly, I may just return it and stick with the Bimby based on my initial opinion -- I may just kind of prefer the BFM's more mid-forward sound, even if it is somewhat less resolving... but who knows, maybe I'll switch back and wonder how I ever tolerated the BFM, haha.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 1, 2019)

kdoof said:


> BF3 arrived today...




*OMG!! BF3 is out already!?* 

I guess I better cancel my BF2 order since it hasn't shipped yet.


----------



## kdoof

Ripper2860 said:


> *OMG!! BF3 is out already!?*
> 
> I guess I better cancel my BF2 order since it hasn't shipped yet.



Hahaha, yes. Confusing my acronyms here I guess.

To continue my impressions: I know burn-in is a controversial subject in our circles but god damn if BF2 couldn't make for a good study subject on the matter; I swear to God, the BF2's changed after leaving it on overnight. Mids are much more present, the highs have mellowed very nicely, and bass has deepened. All that resolution is still there. All my misgivings that had me thinking I may stick with the BFM are kind of melting away. This is just _so_ clean, and _so_ detailed, yet _so _musical.


----------



## Rensek

I've read elsewhere by other folks that they thought it sounded much better after some burn in time. Interesting topic. I wonder how much is actual burn in, and how much is our ears/brain adjusting to what we are hearing.


----------



## kdoof

Rensek said:


> I've read elsewhere by other folks that they thought it sounded much better after some burn in time. Interesting topic. I wonder how much is actual burn in, and how much is our ears/brain adjusting to what we are hearing.



On Steve Hoffman was a post by a guy who used a BFM demo unit for awhile and then got a brand-new one and he even noticed the sound was different between the "burnt-in" unit and the brand new one. I don't personally subscribe to the idea of units needing 500 hours to sound their best but it doesn't seem completely unfeasible to me that straight from the assembly line their components might change slightly with use.


----------



## motberg

kdoof said:


> Hahaha, yes. Confusing my acronyms here I guess.
> 
> To continue my impressions: I know burn-in is a controversial subject in our circles but god damn if BF2 couldn't make for a good study subject on the matter; I swear to God, the BF2's changed after leaving it on overnight. Mids are much more present, the highs have mellowed very nicely, and bass has deepened. All that resolution is still there. All my misgivings that had me thinking I may stick with the BFM are kind of melting away. This is just _so_ clean, and _so_ detailed, yet _so _musical.


Thanks - which input are you using ?


----------



## Ripper2860

kdoof said:


> Hahaha, yes. Confusing my acronyms here I guess.
> 
> To continue my impressions: I know burn-in is a controversial subject in our circles but god damn if BF2 couldn't make for a good study subject on the matter; I swear to God, the BF2's changed after leaving it on overnight. Mids are much more present, the highs have mellowed very nicely, and bass has deepened. All that resolution is still there. All my misgivings that had me thinking I may stick with the BFM are kind of melting away. This is just _so_ clean, and _so_ detailed, yet _so _musical.



I am a firm believer in electronics burn-in and am anxious to see if I experience the same.  (My BF2 shipped today, so hopefully soon!  Woohoo!!!).


----------



## bigbenrfan99

2 days until my Bifrost 2 arrives


----------



## tincanear (Oct 2, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> I am a firm believer in electronics burn-in and am anxious to see if I experience the same.  (My BF2 shipped today, so hopefully soon!  Woohoo!!!).


Overnight burn-in probably makes a difference for the electrolytic capacitors.  Capacitor manufacturer's data sheets spec the leakage current, ESR, etc after 100 hours applied working (DC) voltage.  If you measure brand-new caps often they have a small negative voltage (~100mV) across the terminals.  the oxide layer needs some time with operating voltage applied to properly form.

Would be curious to know not only the input used (e.g. USB, coaxial SPDIF), but also the raw data rate (e.g. 16/44 or 24/96) supplied by the source.  Bifrost 2 has 8x oversampling comboburrito filter vs the 4x on original Bifrost.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 2, 2019)

kdoof said:


> On Steve Hoffman was a post by a guy who used a BFM demo unit for awhile and then got a brand-new one and he even noticed the sound was different between the "burnt-in" unit and the brand new one. I don't personally subscribe to the idea of units needing 500 hours to sound their best but it doesn't seem completely unfeasible to me that straight from the assembly line their components might change slightly with use.


On another forum it's not just considered established fact that the Gungnir Multibit has received a silent Analog 2 update, but that the Bifrost Multibit also has seen a change that supposedly makes it sound significantly closer to a Gungnir Multibit (Analog 1, presumably).

Call me extreme, but to confirm burn-in as the reason for sound differences, I would buy two new units at the same time, open them up to confirm there are absolutely no visible differences (Schiit silently sold a few Yggdrasil Analog 2s at the old price before announcing the change, so it's conceivable that someone ordering two units may receive one older and one newer revision), confirm that the sound is the same initially (to account for good parts/bad parts, differences in the burn-in time at Schiit HQ, etc.), then use one for, say, 200+ hours with the other one sitting in a box, then turn the new one off and let it cool down for, say 4+ hours, then turn both units on at the same time, ideally with a Y splitter for power and identical power cables. If I then hear profound differences, going back and forth with the exact same cables, transducers, etc., I would be relatively certain it's burn-in (vs. warm up, silent revisions, parts differences, etc.)


----------



## Rensek

Alcophone said:


> On another forum it's not just considered established fact that the Gungnir Multibit has received a silent Analog 2 update, but that the Bifrost Multibit also has seen a change that supposedly makes it sound significantly closer to a Gungnir Multibit (Analog 1, presumably).
> 
> Call me extreme, but to confirm burn-in as the reason for sound differences, I would buy two new units at the same time, open them up to confirm there are absolutely no visible differences (Schiit silently sold a few Yggdrasil Analog 2s at the old price before announcing the change, so it's conceivable that someone ordering two units may receive one older and one newer revision), confirm that the sound is the same initially (to account for good parts/bad parts, differences in the burn-in time at Schiit HQ, etc.), then use one for, say, 200+ hours with the other one sitting in a box, then turn the new one off and let it cool down for, say 4+ hours, then turn both units on at the same time, ideally with a Y splitter for power and identical power cables. If I then hear profound differences, going back and forth with the exact same cables, transducers, etc., I would be relatively certain it's burn-in (vs. warm up, silent revisions, parts differences, etc.)



I believe there is only one version of Bifrost 2 sold and out in the wild. I believe you are referring to the posts that said Bifrost 2 sounds very close to Gungnir Multibit analogue 1 (Gungnir analogue 2 is an unconfirmed rumor, but taken as gospel elsewhere). Bifrost 2 is apparently a huge change from bimby (Bifrost multibit v1). Relatively speaking in audio terms, of course.


----------



## tincanear (Oct 2, 2019)

On the main Schiit thread here on head-Fi, Jason talked about the design discussion he had with Mike, and the following items were detailed about Bifrost 2 (using some tech borrowed from gungnir) :
uses 18-bit AD converters AD5781A (spec'd linearity to 4 LSB, typ 2 LSB) vs 16-bit parts used on Bifrost Multibit (1st gen)
uses differential amp LME49724 for both SE and XLR outputs (Bifrost Multibit OG uses AD8512 amp chip or something like that),
uses one 18-bit converter per channel (gungnir uses two of higher-linearity-spec AD5781 parts per channel)
uses 8X oversampling digital filter on SHARC DSP (OG Bifrost Multibit is 4X)
Unison USB chip with added electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 2, 2019)

Rensek said:


> I believe there is only one version of Bifrost 2 sold and out in the wild. I believe you are referring to the posts that said Bifrost 2 sounds very close to Gungnir Multibit analogue 1 (Gungnir analogue 2 is an unconfirmed rumor, but taken as gospel elsewhere). Bifrost 2 is apparently a huge change from bimby (Bifrost multibit v1). Relatively speaking in audio terms, of course.


I understood the post I was quoting to mean that someone bought a demo Bifrost Multibit (Bifrost 1) and compared it to a brand new Bifrost Multibit (also Bifrost 1).
I didn't mean to suggest there's more than one (working) version of the Bifrost 2 out there.

Edit: And the comparisons to Gungnir Multibit I saw long before Bifrost 2 was out.


----------



## Rensek

Alcophone said:


> I understood the post I was quoting to mean that someone bought a demo Bifrost Multibit (Bifrost 1) and compared it to a brand new Bifrost Multibit (also Bifrost 1).
> I didn't mean to suggest there's more than one (working) version of the Bifrost 2 out there.
> 
> Edit: And the comparisons to Gungnir Multibit I saw long before Bifrost 2 was out.



Ahh I guess I don't know about that. I haven't followed Bifrost 1 multibit very closely. Schiit has been known to do silent revisions previously, see Jason's slouching towards kaizen chapter. It's also entirely possible the threads talking about a Bifrost 1 being close to Gungnir were Bifrost 2 beta testers having private conversations in public, and not being able to talk about it. Or maybe the DAC/output stages used in Bifrost 2 was originally slated as Bifrost 1 upgrade, before it became the first autonomy product. Someone knows, but I doubt we will ever find out. 

Has Anyone purchased a Bifrost multibit upgrade recently, that would be willing to open the case up and take a look? Probably the only way to find out.


----------



## Currawong

Alcophone said:


> On another forum it's not just considered established fact that the Gungnir Multibit has received a silent Analog 2 update, but that the Bifrost Multibit also has seen a change that supposedly makes it sound significantly closer to a Gungnir Multibit (Analog 1, presumably).



I've not asked, but it wouldn't surprise me, considering that the original Gungnir MB would have had the same glitch error as the Yggdrasil. 



> Call me extreme, but to confirm burn-in as the reason for sound differences, I would buy two new units at the same time, open them up to confirm there are absolutely no visible differences (Schiit silently sold a few Yggdrasil Analog 2s at the old price before announcing the change, so it's conceivable that someone ordering two units may receive one older and one newer revision), confirm that the sound is the same initially (to account for good parts/bad parts, differences in the burn-in time at Schiit HQ, etc.), then use one for, say, 200+ hours with the other one sitting in a box, then turn the new one off and let it cool down for, say 4+ hours, then turn both units on at the same time, ideally with a Y splitter for power and identical power cables. If I then hear profound differences, going back and forth with the exact same cables, transducers, etc., I would be relatively certain it's burn-in (vs. warm up, silent revisions, parts differences, etc.)



I was A/B'ing the Yggdrasil (V1) against a Chord Mojo when I first bought mine. At the very start, they sounded about the same, but the Yggdrasil, over the period of about a week, definitely pulled ahead. Given that resistors measurably change with use, as a result of heat, enough to cause audible changes in an analog circuit, and that the DAC chips are ultra-precise resistor arrays that are known to be affected by use, something similar isn't so surprising to me at least.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 3, 2019)

Currawong said:


> I was A/B'ing the Yggdrasil (V1) against a Chord Mojo when I first bought mine. At the very start, they sounded about the same, but the Yggdrasil, over the period of about a week, definitely pulled ahead. Given that resistors measurably change with use, as a result of heat, enough to cause audible changes in an analog circuit, and that the DAC chips are ultra-precise resistor arrays that are known to be affected by use, something similar isn't so surprising to me at least.


Definitely possible. Still, did you leave the Yggdrasil on continuously? If not, and it still pulled ahead, then burn-in is definitely a strong contender (as is you getting accustomed to the differences), otherwise it may just be the known needed warmup time (which I have experienced as well with the A2).

Both Bifrost 2s I've had (third replacement due today as of 25 minutes ago) definitely sounded noticeably better after the first few hours or so, but since the first one didn't survive the first night and since I only turned off the second one for the firmware update and it started showing issues the next day, I can't say whether that's burn-in or warmup time.

I'm not ruling out burn-in as the reason for the new Bifrost Multibit sounding different than the older demo unit. Just saying that it could be burn-in, warmup, silent revisions, different quality parts, etc. We can't be sure burn-in of the existing unit is the (only) reason unless we learn a whole lot more about the units at hand. It's just an easy guess if you assume a unit built much later is identical, which is definitely something I naively assumed when I got into the hobby.

But given what I learned in the meantime, I would hesitate to get a second Vidar for monoblock use, for instance. I'd probably get two new ones instead and repurpose or sell the two year old one. I even asked Schiit whether I should expect a new one to sound the same given that silent revisions are (were) a thing, and was told "I cannot speculate on differences between products or product runs", followed by a pointer to the "Slouching Towards Kaizen" chapter.


----------



## Currawong

I left the Yggdrasil on continuously. I've just switched the Bifrost 2 on again now and had a bit of a listen. I'll see if I notice anything after a few hours.  It's plugged into an amp though that is also affected by being left on a few hours though.


----------



## schneller

So Bifrost2 sounds like Gungnir Multibit (v1). The unofficial Gungnir Multibit v2 sounds like Yiggy v1. Yiggy A2 has evolved beyond v1. What will the real Gungnir2 sound like? You know it's coming...


----------



## knivek

So I am just curious, maybe it's just me... but I was watching the Transformers movies again now that my daughters being really into it lately.  When the orchestra and the strings pick up in some of the sappy areas of the movies, it sounds really really artificial.  So I tested my headphones (AFC's) on another source. Sounds totally different.  

This made me try some classical music..  same kind of thing.  I have 0 EQ settings.  Windows settings are set to 24 bit/48000.

Is this something I should worry about?


----------



## Rensek

It's all one big circle of dogs chasing their tail. I read that Gungnir Multibit v1 sounded so good they made yggy A2 sound like gumby A1, and Gumby A2 sounds closer to yggy A1, which would mean Bifrost 2 is close to Gumby A1 and Yggy A2??? I'm sure they all sound great. Buy the DAC you want/can afford, and if you like how it sounds, be happy!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Anyone do any comparisons between the BF2 vs RME ADI-2 DAC?

I know the feature set on the RME is huge.


----------



## Alcophone

Bifrost 2 #3 in the house! Curiously, with a lower serial number than #2. Working so far, came with new firmware.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 3, 2019)

Schiit published a video showing what the LEDs look like during a firmware update:


That was helpful. In hindsight, when I attempted the update with unit #2, the LEDs just showed the normal boot sequence for me. Since I was able to select the USB input without the USB cable plugged in (same on unit #3), I assumed the update was successful. Checking again, the micro SD card I used was formatted with FAT, not FAT32. When I first tried it, I saw "FAT" and figured "great, not exFAT", but forgot about the the old FAT16.
Windows did not allow me to format that card with FAT32 and 32 kB cluster size because it's a 2 GB card (16 kB was the highest offered). With a 4 GB card that I tried, Windows would have allowed formatting with FAT32 and 32 kB cluster size, but it already used that, so I didn't reformat.
I copied the two firmware files onto that card (which still had other files on it), tried again, now the LEDs flashed like in Schiit's video, and everything's still working.

So, if you do the firmware update yourself using Windows 10, you'll need a micro SD card with at least 4 GB capacity (though third party formatting tools might allow 32 kB cluster size with less capacity), it needs to use FAT32 (not FAT/FAT16/exFAT), and 32 kB cluster size (didn't try a different one, but that's what Schiit says on the website).


----------



## Alcophone

Is anyone using WASAPI (event) mode in foobar2000? My unit seems super picky about the buffer length settings, the default 25ms results in only 44.1 and 88.2 kHz sounding fine, while 48/96/176.4/192 kHz are choppy/distorted. With 200ms all sample rates sound that way, with 0/10/20ms all sample rates sound okay. 21/22/23/24/25ms all result in some (but different) sample rates not working. Adobe Audition with WASAPI or ASIO4all habe the same issue, and changing the buffer offset in ASIO4all also breaks different sample rates depending on the setting.
What are your experiences? I think I checked that with the first unit and didn't have issues.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 4, 2019)

Any of you fine folks know if the Bifrost 2 Unison USB chip is USB bus powered or is it powered via the main power circuitry?  Can I use a USB cable with no 5v+ line?


----------



## JerryLeeds

Question ... How do you determine the firmware version present on the BF2?


----------



## tincanear

Ripper2860 said:


> Any of you fine folks know if the Bifrost 2 Unison USB chip is USB bus powered or is it powered via the main power circuitry?  Can I use a USB cable with no 5v+ line?


for Bifrost 2, assume powered by the USB cable. to confirm, try unplugging the usb, power off Bifrost 2, then plug usb back in and see if host device sees the turned-off Bifrost 2.


----------



## JoeKickass

tincanear said:


> for Bifrost 2, assume powered by the USB cable. to confirm, try unplugging the usb, power off Bifrost 2, then plug usb back in and see if host device sees the turned-off Bifrost 2.


Confirmed it does not show up on the PC until you flick the on switch


----------



## Ripper2860

tincanear said:


> for Bifrost 2, assume powered by the USB cable. to confirm, try unplugging the usb, power off Bifrost 2, then plug usb back in and see if host device sees the turned-off Bifrost 2.





JoeKickass said:


> Confirmed it does not show up on the PC until you flick the on switch



So if the host PC does not see the USB connected BF2 until the BF2 is switched on, then that indicates that the Unison USB chip is powered by the BF2 power supply and not powered via USB 5v+ from  the PC.  That makes sense as that is likely one of the design features that contributes to the lower noise attributes of Unison USB.  It also means I can use my custom HQ USB cables that have the 5V+ line neutered.  

(And confirms that the USB controller chip in EITR and Modi MB are powered by the PC USB 5v+ as neither worked with the neutered cable, while my Topping D50 DAC does work with the neutered cable. )

Thanks!!!


----------



## internethandle (Oct 5, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> So if the host PC does not see the USB connected BF2 until the BF2 is switched on, then that indicates that the Unison USB chip is powered by the BF2 power supply and not powered via USB 5v+ from  the PC.  That makes sense as that is likely one of the design features that contributes to the lower noise attributes of Unison USB.  It also means I can use my custom HQ USB cables that have the 5V+ line neutered.
> 
> (And confirms that the USB controller chip in EITR and Modi MB are powered by the PC USB 5v+ as neither worked with the neutered cable, while my Topping D50 DAC does work with the neutered cable. )
> 
> Thanks!!!



Gen 5 USB (so, also the Eitr), if I'm recalling correctly, was powered by the DAC/device's power supply, but still needed 3V (not sure where I got this from, could be a little less) or so to complete a handshake/power some handshake circuitry on the Gen 5 board. Jason explained as much back when. Unsure if that's still the case on the Unison board, but the only way to tell for sure would be to tape over the 5v+ pin on a USB cable's B connector, plug it into a BF2, and try and play some music (or use a data-only cable).

edit: well, or have Jason/someone from Schiit tell us as much


----------



## Ripper2860

Interesting.  That might explain the EITR, but not Modi MB (no Gen 5 variation), but it is a rather unorthodox unit using non-audio DAC chip that may require special handling.  Thanks!!


----------



## bigbenrfan99

My unit arrived yesterday.  After a few hours of warmup time, I have very favorable initial impressions.  I definitely _think_ I'm hearing a fuller sound with more details and more bass impact compared to what I'm used to with my Modi Multibit with both coaxial and USB inputs.  I will spend more time with the Bifrost 2 before directly comparing them.  I'm using a Lyr 3 and a Grado GH4.  Just when I thought out, Schiit pulls me back in.


----------



## BringingthePhunk

Excuse my ignorance, especially if I'm about to ask a very stupid question. I am a happy owner of a Jotunheim with Multibit DAC added.
So on the Schiit website, it states the that the Jotunheim Multibit DAC module is "Schiit’s unique digital filter and multibit DAC architecture, as used in Modi Multibit..."
And then on the Modi page, it states the DAC module is "Schiit’s unique digital filter, and using the same Analog Devices AD5547 multibit DAC as Bifrost."
The Bifrost page then states it has the same chips as the Gungnir which has the same chips as the Yggdrasil.

Does that mean by getting the Jotunheim Multibit DAC, it's the same DAC as inside the Yggdrasil? I feel like I'm misunderstanding something basic here...


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 6, 2019)

BringingthePhunk said:


> Excuse my ignorance, especially if I'm about to ask a very stupid question. I am a happy owner of a Jotunheim with Multibit DAC added.
> So on the Schiit website, it states the that the Jotunheim Multibit DAC module is "Schiit’s unique digital filter and multibit DAC architecture, as used in Modi Multibit..."
> And then on the Modi page, it states the DAC module is "Schiit’s unique digital filter, and using the same Analog Devices AD5547 multibit DAC as Bifrost."
> The Bifrost page then states it has the same chips as the Gungnir which has the same chips as the Yggdrasil.
> ...


That was true for Bifrost Multibit (Multibit version of Bifrost 1), which uses the same 16 bit chips as Modi Multibit and the multibit module, but Bifrost 2 (which only comes as Multibit) uses better chips now, though still a lower grade of the 18 bit chips that Gungnir Multibit uses (AD5781ARUZ vs. AD5781BRUZ), and two instead of four (since Bifrost 2 is "cheap ass balanced" while Gungnir Multibit uses two chips per channel in order to be hardware balanced).
Oh, and Yggdrasil uses 4x AD5791BRUZ, which are 20 bit chips.


----------



## kumar402

Alcophone said:


> On another forum it's not just considered established fact that the Gungnir Multibit has received a silent Analog 2 update, but that the Bifrost Multibit also has seen a change that supposedly makes it sound significantly closer to a Gungnir Multibit (Analog 1, presumably).
> 
> Call me extreme, but to confirm burn-in as the reason for sound differences, I would buy two new units at the same time, open them up to confirm there are absolutely no visible differences (Schiit silently sold a few Yggdrasil Analog 2s at the old price before announcing the change, so it's conceivable that someone ordering two units may receive one older and one newer revision), confirm that the sound is the same initially (to account for good parts/bad parts, differences in the burn-in time at Schiit HQ, etc.), then use one for, say, 200+ hours with the other one sitting in a box, then turn the new one off and let it cool down for, say 4+ hours, then turn both units on at the same time, ideally with a Y splitter for power and identical power cables. If I then hear profound differences, going back and forth with the exact same cables, transducers, etc., I would be relatively certain it's burn-in (vs. warm up, silent revisions, parts differences, etc.)


Well as an owner of Gungnir MB, I can say with confidence that Gungnir sounds different 3 to 4 days after being on then on very first day. On first day it sounded cold and bright. I left it on for few days and then compared against Qutest and to my surprise I experienced dense tonality of Multibit for first time with better treble. I never switched it off after that and got better surge protector to protect it.


----------



## Ripper2860

As a matter of habit, I do not turn power off my DACs and most electronics (except tube gear, of course).  My thoughts are the inrush surge and stress of power-on would contribute more to electronics detriment than leaving it on (assuming a good power suppressor / filter).  It doesn't hurt that I believe gear sounds better when warmed up.


----------



## XERO1

kumar402 said:


> Well as an owner of Gungnir MB, I can say with confidence that Gungnir sounds different 3 to 4 days after being on then on very first day. On first day it sounded cold and bright. I left it on for few days and then compared against Qutest and to my surprise I experienced dense tonality of Multibit for first time with better treble. I never switched it off after that and got better surge protector to protect it.


This is pretty typical of most R2R-type DACs.

The Yggy is notorious for requiring 3-4 days of continuous on-time before it sounds it's best, which is why it's recommended to just leave Schiit's multibit DACs on 24/7 while you are actively using it.


----------



## Ripper2860

Bifrost 2 -- In Da House!!!

Letting her warm-up a day before getting serious, but so far ...


----------



## Rensek

Oooooo, I want to throw fiscal responsibility to the wind!!! New tires for the family ride or a Bifrost 2. Decisions Decisions......


----------



## Ripper2860

Retreads and a Bifrost 2 sounds like a good compromise to me.


----------



## tincanear

Rensek said:


> Oooooo, I want to throw fiscal responsibility to the wind!!! New tires for the family ride or a Bifrost 2. Decisions Decisions......


or sell some of your old gear...


----------



## Rensek

Ripper2860 said:


> Retreads and a Bifrost 2 sounds like a good compromise to me.



Yeah... I get basically 5-6 months of winter up here. Don't want to cheap out on tires.



tincanear said:


> or sell some of your old gear...



Relatively new to this hobby, nothing worth selling yet.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 8, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Retreads and a Bifrost 2 sounds like a good compromise to me.





Rensek said:


> Yeah... I get basically 5-6 months of winter up here. Don't want to cheap out on tires.



Dammit forgot to use tags.  Misunderstood sarcasm rears its ugly head once more ...    



Move to Texas.  We get 10 mos. of Summer!!


----------



## Ripper2860

OK.  After one day with thr Bifrost 2, I'm really finding it to be a very nice DAC representing a very worthwhile upgrade from my Modi MB and Topping D50.   I'll give some more listening over the next few days before saying anything more than that.  

Quick questions for Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 owners:  Do any of you folks stack your Lyr 3 on top of the Bifrost 2?  If so, how do you feel about the temps?  When I do, it Seems VERY toasty -- not just for Lyr 3, but also for Bifrost 2.  I use a tube-saver to lift my 6SN7 tubes at top case level and the unstacked Lyr 3 gets just slightly warm to the touch.  If I set the Bifrost 2 to the side, it also gets barely warm to the touch.  If I stack the 2  -- HOLY COW!!!  The Lyr 3 gets UNCOMFORTABLY warm/hot and the Bifrost 2 gets VERY warm/hot -- especially on the left-side where the power circuitry and transformer is located.  Any of y'all get the same results?  Do you folks think it's a bad idea to stack them?  Some say a toasty Schiit stack is a happy Schiit stack and others say Heat is the enemy of all electronics.  Your thoughts, please.

Thanks!!!


----------



## tcellguy

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  After one day with thr Bifrost 2, I'm really finding it to be a very nice DAC representing a very worthwhile upgrade from my Modi MB and Topping D50.   I'll give some more listening over the next few days before saying anything more than that.
> 
> Quick questions for Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 owners:  Do any of you folks stack your Lyr 3 on top of the Bifrost 2?  If so, how do you feel about the temps?  When I do, it Seems VERY toasty -- not just for Lyr 3, but also for Bifrost 2.  I use a tube-saver to lift my 6SN7 tubes at top case level and the unstacked Lyr 3 gets just slightly warm to the touch.  If I set the Bifrost 2 to the side, it also gets barely warm to the touch.  If I stack the 2  -- HOLY COW!!!  The Lyr 3 gets UNCOMFORTABLY warm/hot and the Bifrost 2 gets VERY warm/hot -- especially on the left-side where the power circuitry and transformer is located.  Any of y'all get the same results?  Do you folks think it's a bad idea to stack them?  Some say a toasty Schiit stack is a happy Schiit stack and others say Heat is the enemy of all electronics.  Your thoughts, please.
> 
> Thanks!!!



I had a Lyr 3 / Jotunheim / Bifrost triple stack and the bottom Jot and Bifrost got very hot (even with the Lyr 3 off). I moved the bifrost over the left and brought the Jot down to desk level and the temps went back to normal.


----------



## RestoredSparda

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  After one day with thr Bifrost 2, I'm really finding it to be a very nice DAC representing a very worthwhile upgrade from my Modi MB and Topping D50.   I'll give some more listening over the next few days before saying anything more than that.
> 
> Quick questions for Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 owners:  Do any of you folks stack your Lyr 3 on top of the Bifrost 2?  If so, how do you feel about the temps?  When I do, it Seems VERY toasty -- not just for Lyr 3, but also for Bifrost 2.  I use a tube-saver to lift my 6SN7 tubes at top case level and the unstacked Lyr 3 gets just slightly warm to the touch.  If I set the Bifrost 2 to the side, it also gets barely warm to the touch.  If I stack the 2  -- HOLY COW!!!  The Lyr 3 gets UNCOMFORTABLY warm/hot and the Bifrost 2 gets VERY warm/hot -- especially on the left-side where the power circuitry and transformer is located.  Any of y'all get the same results?  Do you folks think it's a bad idea to stack them?  Some say a toasty Schiit stack is a happy Schiit stack and others say Heat is the enemy of all electronics.  Your thoughts, please.
> 
> Thanks!!!



I have the same stack and haven't really much worried about heat to be honest. They have a lot of room on the sides. I do know the bifrost 2 runs a lot hotter than bifrost "1" even if not stacked. Lyr 3 isn't all that hot to me compared to my previous Lyr 2. I guess I haven't noticed any alarming temps with the two stacked.  I'm sure some taller risers under Ly 3 like you mentioned would drop temps quite a bit if you are worried about longevity.


----------



## JoeKickass

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  After one day with thr Bifrost 2, I'm really finding it to be a very nice DAC representing a very worthwhile upgrade from my Modi MB and Topping D50.   I'll give some more listening over the next few days before saying anything more than that.
> 
> Quick questions for Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 owners:  Do any of you folks stack your Lyr 3 on top of the Bifrost 2?  If so, how do you feel about the temps?  When I do, it Seems VERY toasty -- not just for Lyr 3, but also for Bifrost 2.  I use a tube-saver to lift my 6SN7 tubes at top case level and the unstacked Lyr 3 gets just slightly warm to the touch.  If I set the Bifrost 2 to the side, it also gets barely warm to the touch.  If I stack the 2  -- HOLY COW!!!  The Lyr 3 gets UNCOMFORTABLY warm/hot and the Bifrost 2 gets VERY warm/hot -- especially on the left-side where the power circuitry and transformer is located.  Any of y'all get the same results?  Do you folks think it's a bad idea to stack them?  Some say a toasty Schiit stack is a happy Schiit stack and others say Heat is the enemy of all electronics.  Your thoughts, please.
> 
> Thanks!!!



I keep a Lyr 3 on a Bifrost 2 in an enclosed area, when I turn on the Lyr 3 for a few hours it does get pretty warm but I can still keep my hand on it comfortably, and the Bifrost 2 is noticeably not as hot as the Lyr 3.

As long as you don't keep the Lyr 3 on 24/7 there shouldn't be any longevity issues with a stack, and it looks quite nice too:


----------



## quimbo

Ripper2860 said:


> OK.  After one day with thr Bifrost 2, I'm really finding it to be a very nice DAC representing a very worthwhile upgrade from my Modi MB and Topping D50.   I'll give some more listening over the next few days before saying anything more than that.
> 
> Quick questions for Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 owners:  Do any of you folks stack your Lyr 3 on top of the Bifrost 2?  If so, how do you feel about the temps?  When I do, it Seems VERY toasty -- not just for Lyr 3, but also for Bifrost 2.  I use a tube-saver to lift my 6SN7 tubes at top case level and the unstacked Lyr 3 gets just slightly warm to the touch.  If I set the Bifrost 2 to the side, it also gets barely warm to the touch.  If I stack the 2  -- HOLY COW!!!  The Lyr 3 gets UNCOMFORTABLY warm/hot and the Bifrost 2 gets VERY warm/hot -- especially on the left-side where the power circuitry and transformer is located.  Any of y'all get the same results?  Do you folks think it's a bad idea to stack them?  Some say a toasty Schiit stack is a happy Schiit stack and others say Heat is the enemy of all electronics.  Your thoughts, please.
> 
> Thanks!!!


I bought some of these https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 and placed them between my Bifrost 1 and Lyr 3.  This has reduced the heat emanating from the stack


----------



## internethandle

Yeah if you're really concerned, just get feet that are taller than the stock feet for the Lyr 3 (or, if you want even more room for the Bifrost 2 to breathe, for both). I use Herbie's Tenderfeet. Taking off the stock feet is very easy (as is putting them back on, just pull/press from/into the chassis holes on the bottom).

People hand wringing about Schiit stack heat has been a thing for as long as I can remember, and I'm of the opinion that it's a non-issue. Schiit gear is supposed to get hot, their chassis designs double as their components' heastinks, much of the time. I kept an OG Bifrost 1 (pre-Multibit, a pre-order model so it got a lot hotter than later revisions) stacked with a very hot Little Dot MK III for years, the Bifrost 1 on 24/7, and the Bifrost 1 never skipped a beat.


----------



## Jason Stoddard (Oct 8, 2019)

I stack my Asgard 3 on top of my Bifrost 2. They get warm. It's fine. We wouldn't have a 5-year warranty if we didn't think they wouldn't last 10 when stacked like that. Remember, we've been around for 9.5 years now, building products that ran a LOT hotter than Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 (looking at you, previous Asgards and Lyrs), without thermal failures.

Before I stacked the Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2, I stacked my Lyr 3 on top of my Bifrost 2 prototype (which was in a 3D printed plastic chassis.) The plastic chassis melted a bit, but it worked fine for about a year otherwise.

However...stacking things on top of the amp (Jotunheim, Asgard 3, etc) is not such a great idea--which is why the manuals say you shouldn't block the vent holes.


----------



## theveterans

As seen on my the first page of this thread, I don't stack my bifrost 2 and not put it on an enclosed cabinet as well since it runs much hotter than bifrost MB that I have which is room temp to touch. I can imagine Bifrost 2 getting over 140 degrees F when stacked with any Schiit amp (even the original Saga which runs very cool BTW) and placed on an enclosed cabinet. I only put my W4S uLink SPDIF stacked on top which doesn't generate much heat at all.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 8, 2019)

Thanks everyone.  I have no concerns with the temp of either unit individually, I was just a bit nervous about them stacked.  I'm glad that it seems to be more a case of my being a Nervous Nellie. I have some nice 1' RCA cables like those used with the Schittr tube blind test on their way, so the pair will be stacked once more by the end of the week. What the heck, it may be nice to sit next to a toasty Schiit stack come late Fall and Winter.  

It does look so nice when stacked!!






quimbo said:


> I bought some of these https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 and placed them between my Bifrost 1 and Lyr 3. This has reduced the heat emanating from the stack



Thanks @quimbo.  I'll probably be getting these, even if just to I placate my OCD self!!


----------



## tincanear (Oct 9, 2019)

Jason Stoddard said:


> I stack my Asgard 3 on top of my Bifrost 2. They get warm. It's fine. We wouldn't have a 5-year warranty if we didn't think they wouldn't last 10 when stacked like that. Remember, we've been around for 9.5 years now, building products that ran a LOT hotter than Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 (looking at you, previous Asgards and Lyrs), without thermal failures.
> 
> Before I stacked the Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2, I stacked my Lyr 3 on top of my Bifrost 2 prototype (which was in a 3D printed plastic chassis.) The plastic chassis melted a bit, but it worked fine for about a year otherwise.
> 
> However...stacking things on top of the amp (Jotunheim, Asgard 3, etc) is not such a great idea--which is why the manuals say you shouldn't block the vent holes.



@Jason Stoddard  Is Asgard 3 capable of running standing on it's left end (transformer side) like Asgard 2 was?  And if a module is added will it block off the vent holes on the right end (now top)?

any pics of the plastic Bifrost 2?  we understand that was just an engineering sample


----------



## tincanear

quimbo said:


> I bought some of these https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 and placed them between my Bifrost 1 and Lyr 3.  This has reduced the heat emanating from the stack


 @quimbo  do these come in smaller (like 1" x 1" size, or can they be easily cut without falling apart? )


----------



## JerryLeeds (Oct 9, 2019)

Got my BF2 on Saturday and using with a new xduoo TA-20 (replaced Chinese tubes with matched new Mullard (Russian) for now)
Headphones massdrop DT-177X GO balanced cable and Pads swapped to brainwavz xl perforated

For a completely brand new system seems pretty sweet ... I put this together for possible office duty but I like it alot

No heat issues with BF2 just slightly warm to touch then again my BF2 is on top of everything and completely open the air


----------



## quimbo

tincanear said:


> @quimbo  do these come in smaller (like 1" x 1" size, or can they be easily cut without falling apart? )



going here - https://www.supplyhouse.com/Pads-11752000 - looks like 2 x 2 is the smallest.   They probably could be cut carefully with a sharp razor.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

tincanear said:


> @Jason Stoddard  Is Asgard 3 capable of running standing on it's left end (transformer side) like Asgard 2 was?  And if a module is added will it block off the vent holes on the right end (now top)?
> 
> any pics of the plastic Bifrost 2?  we understand that was just an engineering sample



You can run anything we make standing on end, but it's not very stable. The newer amps are slimmer than the old ones, and more likely to fall over. I personally wouldn't do it.

Here's a Bifrost 2 prototype:


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 9, 2019)

Prototype for a Bifrost 2 GT Carbon Fiber edition, maybe?


----------



## tafens (Oct 10, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> Quick questions for Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 owners: Do any of you folks stack your Lyr 3 on top of the Bifrost 2? If so, how do you feel about the temps? When I do, it Seems VERY toasty -- not just for Lyr 3, but also for Bifrost 2. I use a tube-saver to lift my 6SN7 tubes at top case level and the unstacked Lyr 3 gets just slightly warm to the touch. If I set the Bifrost 2 to the side, it also gets barely warm to the touch. If I stack the 2 -- HOLY COW!!! The Lyr 3 gets UNCOMFORTABLY warm/hot and the Bifrost 2 gets VERY warm/hot -- especially on the left-side where the power circuitry and transformer is located. Any of y'all get the same results?



I stack them, the temps seem fine though.
Ambient temperature is about 25°C (77°F). I measured with an IR-thermometer, and the top plate of Lyr3 is about 40°C (104°F), and so is the top plate of Bifrost2. Warm, but not toasty.

I too use a socket saver so the tube is elevated with its base just over the top plate. I also use small rubber pads under the built-in feet of Lyr3, making the clearance between them about 1cm (2/5 inch).

Edit: Temps measured about four hours after startup, but they don’t seem to get any hotter that when left on for longer either.


----------



## zztopps

Great information about heat @Jason Stoddard and others. 

Any concerns about noise or interference?

I stack a Loki Mini on top of a Modi Multibit and a Sys on top of the Loki (and a Mani on top of the Sys).  This stack sounds great.

Would it sound better if arranged differently?

Would I have any issues if I replaced the Modi with a Bitfrost 2?


----------



## kdoof (Oct 11, 2019)

Well, after nearly two weeks I think I'm gonna call it -- I simply prefer the Bifrost Multibit w/ the A3. BF2/A3 seems almost like too much of a good thing -- the BF2 is definitely moderately more resolving and clear, but I think that comes at the cost of overall dynamicism and engagement (for me). The A3 nicely compliments the Bimby's more muscular and aggressive sound signature, whereas BF2/A3 is a bit _too_ laid back a combination for my tastes, it simply wasn't scratching the itch for me.

I bet the BF2 is a joy with Schiit's other amps though, like Jotunheim (with balanced outs that's probably the best combo logistically, as well) and Lyr 3. (I'd spent a tiny amount of time with the A2/BF2 combo at Schiitr and even that seemed like an awesome pairing.) But the A3/Bimby combo is really special and I urge anyone with a Bimby to try it out before upgrading to BF2, it may be all you were looking for, as it turns out was the case for me.

That said, I'll be jumping on the Unison upgrade whenever that's available.


----------



## kdoof

kdoof said:


> Well, after nearly two weeks I think I'm gonna call it -- I simply prefer the Bifrost Multibit w/ the A3. BF2/A3 seems almost like too much of a good thing -- the BF2 is definitely moderately more resolving and clear, but I think that comes at the cost of overall dynamicism and engagement (for me). The A3 nicely compliments the Bimby's more muscular and aggressive sound signature, whereas BF2/A3 is a bit _too_ laid back a combination for my tastes, it simply wasn't scratching the itch for me.
> 
> I bet the BF2 is a joy with Schiit's other amps though, like Jotunheim (with balanced outs that's probably the best combo logistically, as well) and Lyr 3. (I'd spent a tiny amount of time with the A2/BF2 combo at Schiitr and even that seemed like an awesome pairing.) But the A3/Bimby combo is really special and I urge anyone with a Bimby to try it out before upgrading to BF2, it may be all you were looking for, as it turns out was the case for me.
> 
> That said, I'll be jumping on the Unison upgrade whenever that's available.


----------



## CasualListener8

kdoof said:


> Well, after nearly two weeks I think I'm gonna call it -- I simply prefer the Bifrost Multibit w/ the A3. BF2/A3 seems almost like too much of a good thing -- the BF2 is definitely moderately more resolving and clear, but I think that comes at the cost of overall dynamicism and engagement (for me). The A3 nicely compliments the Bimby's more muscular and aggressive sound signature, whereas BF2/A3 is a bit _too_ laid back a combination for my tastes, it simply wasn't scratching the itch for me.



That's actually kind of my impression as well between the Modi Multibit and Bifrost 2 on a speaker rig. I wouldn't say the Bifrost 2 is more laid back necessarily, but to my ears the BF2 is less neutral and adds a layer of color to the sound that ends up being over the top (for me anyway). It's fun and really impresses when you first fire it up, but over time it's just too much. I'm not sure it's even more resolving all of the time... there are definitely cases where I notice more details with the BF2, but when musical passages get more involved, it's a toss up or even slightly in favor of the MM.


----------



## tafens (Oct 11, 2019)

kdoof said:


> I bet the BF2 is a joy with Schiit's other amps though, like Jotunheim (with balanced outs that's probably the best combo logistically, as well) and Lyr 3.



It is great with the Lyr3. I also have the multibit card, and to my ears the Bifrost2 is definitely the better sounding DAC. In fact, was surprised that a DAC could make such a big difference.

Edit: And they stack very nicely as well


----------



## Ripper2860

^^  I absolutely agree!!


----------



## kwatch

How do you get $100 back? Did you pay $699 and received $100 rebate from Schiit?


----------



## bigbenrfan99

kwatch said:


> How do you get $100 back? Did you pay $699 and received $100 rebate from Schiit?


Yes.  When I purchased the Bifrost 2, I put a note in the order including my previous order number for a Bifrost multibit upgrade.  I paid the $700 + tax and shipping.  Schiit sent me a $100 refund when the Bifrost 2 shipped.


----------



## Maishar

I just purchased the Bifrost 2, but couldn't find any USB-C to USB-B cable in the site.
@Jason Stoddard, IMHO you should add a USB-C PYST cable. 2018+ MacBooks (and probably other brands) have only USB-C ports...

Any recommendation for a good PYST-level/price cable?


----------



## Alcophone

Maishar said:


> I just purchased the Bifrost 2, but couldn't find any USB-C to USB-B cable in the site.
> @Jason Stoddard, IMHO you should add a USB-C PYST cable. 2018+ MacBooks (and probably other brands) have only USB-C ports...
> 
> Any recommendation for a good PYST-level/price cable?


The Anker OTG adapter cable always worked well for me: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-Technology-Compatible/dp/B01COOQIKU/
If you want something more "audiophile", iFi and Audioquest have you covered:
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Android-Phones-Digital-Players/dp/B07DWFHPBN/
https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-DragonTail-Type-C-Extender/dp/B07GXXDM16/

There are also cable-less adapters (including from Audioquest), but they seem risky to me, coming out of a mobile device.

If you want a straight USB-C to B cable without an adapter, I have used this in the past: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Printer-USB-C-Black/dp/B00VKSF39O/ref=mp_s_a_1_6. Feels flimsy, though.

Amazon lists some other companies making USB-C to B cables. I see UGREEN also makes cables like that, but I'd avoid that company like the plague. Had three products from them and they all sucked.

Audioquest has a range of USB-C to B cables: https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-b-to-c. The cheapest one starts at $40: https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Forest-USB-Cable-0-75m/dp/B07KRP2NX1/. Too bad it's an ugly green. :-D
Moon Audio offers their Blue Dragon and Silver dragon in a USB-C to B version, but those start at $85.
Wireworld makes USC-C to C cables, but no USB-C to B for whatever reason.


----------



## Smasher

Is bifrost 2 a definite upgrade over modi multibit A2?


----------



## tafens

Smasher said:


> Is bifrost 2 a definite upgrade over modi multibit A2?



I’d say yes, to my ears it is a definite upgrade over the multibit card, which is basically the same dac as Modi multibit. I don’t know what you mean by A2 though? Modi multibit hasn’t had any upgrades to it that I know of, except a firmware update.


----------



## Smasher

tafens said:


> I’d say yes, to my ears it is a definite upgrade over the multibit card, which is basically the same dac as Modi multibit. I don’t know what you mean by A2 though? Modi multibit hasn’t had any upgrades to it that I know of, except a firmware update.



Yeah I was referring to the firmware update. I am actually planning on getting a desktop amp dac stack for driving IEMs only. Since it won't require much power, I was wondering whether to allocate majority of my budget for a DAC like Bifrost 2 or an AMP like Lyr 3/ Asgard 3 with the newer modi multibit?


----------



## CasualListener8

Smasher said:


> Is bifrost 2 a definite upgrade over modi multibit A2?



My Modi Multibit is the revised firmware version (bought mid-2019). I posted some brief comments earlier, but IMHO to my ears the Bifrost 2 is _not_ a definite upgrade in every sense. It does some things better and some things worse. On a first listening session the BF2 sounded a lot better, but after I swapped back and forth I kind of got a sense that some of the characteristics that seem so impressive at first blush are added color. The best way I can describe it is it’s a bit like having an EL84 tube amp in the DAC somewhere. If this is the sound you want, you’ll love the BF2. If not, you might find the MM is more to your liking.


----------



## tafens

CasualListener8 said:


> My Modi Multibit is the revised firmware version (bought mid-2019). I posted some brief comments earlier, but IMHO to my ears the Bifrost 2 is _not_ a definite upgrade in every sense. It does some things better and some things worse. On a first listening session the BF2 sounded a lot better, but after I swapped back and forth I kind of got a sense that some of the characteristics that seem so impressive at first blush are added color. The best way I can describe it is it’s a bit like having an EL84 tube amp in the DAC somewhere. If this is the sound you want, you’ll love the BF2. If not, you might find the MM is more to your liking.



I’m not familiar with the EL84, could you please try to describe the nature of the coloration in other words?


----------



## tafens

Smasher said:


> Yeah I was referring to the firmware update. I am actually planning on getting a desktop amp dac stack for driving IEMs only. Since it won't require much power, I was wondering whether to allocate majority of my budget for a DAC like Bifrost 2 or an AMP like Lyr 3/ Asgard 3 with the newer modi multibit?



I’m not familiar with IEMs, I use the HD6XX as my daily driver which is anything but. So I can’t really say about IEMs, but with HD6XX and my ears though, the Lyr3+Bifrost2 combo is a great one, definitely better than the smaller and lower priced Modi multibit+Magni3 combo, and also better than the Lyr3+multibit card.

But getting back to IEMs, I have read that both the Asgard3 and Lyr3 can handle them (as can Magni3), but as said I have no personal experience. However, IEMs are easier to drive than HD6XX and similar, I’d venture a guess that putting more money towards a dac is more important than an amp with tons of power.


----------



## Smasher

tafens said:


> I’m not familiar with IEMs, I use the HD6XX as my daily driver which is anything but. So I can’t really say about IEMs, but with HD6XX and my ears though, the Lyr3+Bifrost2 combo is a great one, definitely better than the smaller and lower priced Modi multibit+Magni3 combo, and also better than the Lyr3+multibit card.
> 
> But getting back to IEMs, I have read that both the Asgard3 and Lyr3 can handle them (as can Magni3), but as said I have no personal experience. However, IEMs are easier to drive than HD6XX and similar, I’d venture a guess that putting more money towards a dac is more important than an amp with tons of power.



Thank you, I am leaning toward the Bifrost 2 and Asgard 3 combo now. Time to wait for some more impressions.


----------



## CasualListener8

tafens said:


> I’m not familiar with the EL84, could you please try to describe the nature of the coloration in other words?



It adds a layer of punch/dynamism but also roundedness/artificial richness, particularly to instruments in acoustic recordings (especially classical solo). At first blush it's an impressive effect, but the problem for me is that the BF2 also tends to make quiet, contemplative recordings sound artificially pumped up/over-energetic/unreal, which obscures the performance itself in a sense. To my ear, the BF2 also has more "greyness" between notes in music with complicated passages, like it's having more trouble sorting things out. This latter point is also somewhat audible when listening to movies -- there are times when I find it's harder to understand dialogue in movies with the BF2 in comparison to the MM. My wife noticed this too.

I love the MM a lot because I feel it does almost everything better than most other DACs I've heard, except for a few minor quibbles (low-level detail could be better, bass is just a little loose, and the top end is not quite as pristine as you'd get from an average delta-sigma DAC but there is a better sense of realism). The BF2 is quite a different sounding beast to my ear. I can see why some people would absolutely dig the way it sounds, but to me I just found myself gravitating back to the MM every time I'd swap it back in. (The BF2 did make me more curious about one day getting the Yggdrasil though; hopefully that will be an across-the-board, no drawbacks upgrade.)


----------



## purehifi192

Does the new Bifrost 2 have 17.5 bits of resolution?  I can't find anything about it on this forum or on the website other than the FAQ stating it's a sub 18 bit DAC.  @Baldr?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

purehifi192 said:


> Does the new Bifrost 2 have 17.5 bits of resolution?  I can't find anything about it on this forum or on the website other than the FAQ stating it's a sub 18 bit DAC.  @Baldr?



See the extensive APx555 test results on our site, in the Specifications tab, showing the Bifrost 2 clearly resolving even a -144dB sine--that's 24 bits. There's also a linearity plot.


----------



## purehifi192

Thank you @Jason Stoddard 

I'm not hyper focused on the bits of some theoretical unlistenable 24 or 32 bits of resolution.  Simply trying to better understand, with the chip upgrade, how the bits of resolution stacks to the rest of the Schiit DAC lineup.

Yggdrasil is 21 bits per the description page
Gungir MB is 19 bits per description page
Bifrost 2 is ?
Modi MB I believe is 16 bits


----------



## Jason Stoddard

purehifi192 said:


> Thank you @Jason Stoddard
> 
> I'm not hyper focused on the bits of some theoretical unlistenable 24 or 32 bits of resolution.  Simply trying to better understand, with the chip upgrade, how the bits of resolution stacks to the rest of the Schiit DAC lineup.
> 
> ...



Bifrost 2 uses 18 bit DACs, same as Gungnir. However, it only uses 2 of them, not 4, and they are of lesser spec (AD5781ARUZ vs AD5781BRUZ). The D/A converters used, including the spec level, are listed in the Specs tab of every DAC.


----------



## tafens

European Bifrost2 owners; have any of you received the firmware sd-card that Schiit were mailing out to every owner with the first update?

I haven’t received anything yet, but I thought it best to wait for it anyway so I know I get a card that is correctly formatted and known to work for the purpose.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

tafens said:


> European Bifrost2 owners; have any of you received the firmware sd-card that Schiit were mailing out to every owner with the first update?
> 
> I haven’t received anything yet, but I thought it best to wait for it anyway so I know I get a card that is correctly formatted and known to work for the purpose.



If you haven't gotten your card, contact orders@schiit.com.


----------



## tafens

Jason Stoddard said:


> If you haven't gotten your card, contact orders@schiit.com.



I’ll do that, thanks!


----------



## Dana Reed

Jason Stoddard said:


> Bifrost 2 uses 18 bit DACs, same as Gungnir. However, it only uses 2 of them, not 4, and they are of lesser spec (AD5781ARUZ vs AD5781BRUZ). The D/A converters used, including the spec level, are listed in the Specs tab of every DAC.


How does the spec differences in INL (0.5 vs 4) and whether it's in HW balanced affect end performance?  Seems like for traditional measurements like THD+N it doesn't matter too much, but I can't recall what you mentioned were the advantages of using HW balanced DAC vs not.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Dana Reed said:


> How does the spec differences in INL (0.5 vs 4) and whether it's in HW balanced affect end performance?  Seems like for traditional measurements like THD+N it doesn't matter too much, but I can't recall what you mentioned were the advantages of using HW balanced DAC vs not.



Based on our measurements, the INL spec doesn't seem to correlate with measured performance.


----------



## tafens

Jason Stoddard said:


> If you haven't gotten your card, contact orders@schiit.com.



I just mailed and within 5 minutes got a reply with a tracking number


----------



## Allan Probin (Oct 16, 2019)

Did anyone in the EU (I’m UK based) receive a $100 rebate for being an owner of the former Bifrost?

I’m almost embarrassed asking for this as I do already have a Bifrost 2 (and supplied previous Bifrost order number when ordered) and consider it at normal retail price to be a ridiculously good value for money DAC, in fact, ridiculously good full stop.


----------



## Dana Reed

Jason Stoddard said:


> Based on our measurements, the INL spec doesn't seem to correlate with measured performance.


How about hardware balanced vs cheap-ass balanced?  If the analog signal is truly balanced, does it matter how it got there?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Dana Reed said:


> How about hardware balanced vs cheap-ass balanced?  If the analog signal is truly balanced, does it matter how it got there?



Not to the APx555. Bifrost 2 measures better than Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil, but mostly in terms of noise floor. The THD performance is similar.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Allan Probin said:


> Did anyone in the EU (I’m UK based) receive a $100 rebate for being an owner of the former Bifrost?
> 
> I’m almost embarrassed asking for this as I do already have a Bifrost 2 (and supplied previous Bifrost order number when ordered) and consider it at normal retail price to be a ridiculously good value for money DAC, in fact, ridiculously good full stop.



If you bought direct from us, contact orders@schiit.com -- they can help you out.


----------



## Dana Reed

Jason Stoddard said:


> Not to the APx555. Bifrost 2 measures better than Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil, but mostly in terms of noise floor. The THD performance is similar.


Then I guess there’s no reason to be jealous of the Bifrost 2 vs my Gungnir multibit, since I can’t hear the noise floor with my Maggies anyway


----------



## Allan Probin

Jason Stoddard said:


> If you bought direct from us, contact orders@schiit.com -- they can help you out.



Thanks Jason. It was from the UK distributor. I think I’ll contact Mark there and just confirm the situation for UK customers


----------



## Doom0

Allan Probin said:


> Did anyone in the EU (I’m UK based) receive a $100 rebate for being an owner of the former Bifrost?
> 
> I’m almost embarrassed asking for this as I do already have a Bifrost 2 (and supplied previous Bifrost order number when ordered) and consider it at normal retail price to be a ridiculously good value for money DAC, in fact, ridiculously good full stop.



Schiit distributors are not Schiit. This means that despite selling their products, they don't have to do same thing as Schiit. I asked one of European distributor, schiit-europe.com few questions and here is the response I got:




			
				schiit-europe.com said:
			
		

> We dont offer the 100 USD discount, that is only done by schiit.com but we have choosen to offer an attractive price for all our customers. We are still in discussion if we can offer some discount to Bifrost 1 owners that bought from us, but our margin is very small to offer discounts.   Unfortunately USA and Europe is not the same, for example, if you return a product within the 14 day return policy to USA there will be a restocking fee between 5-15% where we dont charge anything. The same for warranty...we supply the 5 year warranty on parts, but labour is for 2 years..I dont know about UK, but they also offer normally a warranty on 2-3 years on labour as well. You can read this on Lyr 3 for example, but perhaps they choose to set the price 40 euro higher price on Bifrost 2 and than there is also more margin to offer a longer period on labour warranty. But we always offer very low prices on labour in case there is repair needed after 2 years, most of time not more than 40 euro and in most cases also after 2 years we offer free labour cost in case its easy repair...that is something our regular customer knows from us
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Allan Probin

Thanks @Doom0. I expect something along those lines will apply in the UK also.


----------



## quimbo (Oct 17, 2019)

quimbo said:


> going here - https://www.supplyhouse.com/Pads-11752000 - looks like 2 x 2 is the smallest.   They probably could be cut carefully with a sharp razor.



I recently purchased the 6x6 to place between small IsoAcoustics and JBL 104's.  The JBLs have a rounded bottom and would not sit nice in the stands.  Here is a picture


----------



## Allan Probin

I’ve been doing some careful comparisons between the USB and SPDIF inputs to the Bifrost 2 recently. As part of the comparison I wanted to give the SPDIF a listen to with the USB module removed, just to see if doing that gave a slight lift to performance, e.g. through reduced loading and processor noise. Unfortunately, with the USB card removed I couldn’t hear anything from the SPDIF input. I’m running the v2 updated firmware.

@Jason Stoddard is this intended behaviour? and possibly something that could be updated in a future firmware release to still allow the remaining two inputs to be used if the USB card has been removed?


----------



## RestoredSparda

Allan Probin said:


> I’ve been doing some careful comparisons between the USB and SPDIF inputs to the Bifrost 2 recently. As part of the comparison I wanted to give the SPDIF a listen to with the USB module removed, just to see if doing that gave a slight lift to performance, e.g. through reduced loading and processor noise. Unfortunately, with the USB card removed I couldn’t hear anything from the SPDIF input. I’m running the v2 updated firmware.
> 
> @Jason Stoddard is this intended behaviour? and possibly something that could be updated in a future firmware release to still allow the remaining two inputs to be used if the USB card has been removed?



Just...like, leave it in?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Correct, Bifrost 2 will not function unless all the cards are in for safety.


----------



## Fegefeuer

tafens said:


> European Bifrost2 owners; have any of you received the firmware sd-card that Schiit were mailing out to every owner with the first update?
> 
> I haven’t received anything yet, but I thought it best to wait for it anyway so I know I get a card that is correctly formatted and known to work for the purpose.



Mine arrived 2 days ago and I updated its firmware the first time it went on. Went along just fine like the youtube video Jason posted. I don't know how the system of sending out those cards works since I bought it from Sonority, but I'd like to avoid
receiving mine if it makes you save shipping costs.

Having had the Gungnir Multibit for quite a while, the always-on approach is given and I know not to expect its best sound right from the start but it was already better than the "for a few weeks" interim Bifrost Multibit (2.0 board) from the get go. Perhaps a bit hazy, aggressive.

Hopefully I can have a good first proper listen this evening after I've done housework . Looking so forward to it. BF2 will accompany me until the day I can afford the next gen Yggdrasil.


----------



## tafens

Fegefeuer said:


> Mine arrived 2 days ago and I updated its firmware the first time it went on. Went along just fine like the youtube video Jason posted. I don't know how the system of sending out those cards works since I bought it from Sonority, but I'd like to avoid
> receiving mine if it makes you save shipping costs.



Mine just arrived today, I’m picking it up tomorrow as I didn’t have time today. Interestingly, although free of charge from Schiit, our local postal service provider PostNord views it as an import and will have me pay import and handling fees as well as taxes to collect it.  It’s not the end of the world as it’s only about $8, but this delayed it as well.



Fegefeuer said:


> Hopefully I can have a good first proper listen this evening after I've done housework



Believe me, I know the feeling. Wouldn’t it be nice if the housework could have the courtesy to wait until I’m done listening to music? No? I thought so..



Fegefeuer said:


> BF2 will accompany me until the day I can afford the next gen Yggdrasil.



That’s my plan also. The Yggdrasil GS is tempting, but currently I don’t have room for one and the upgrade costs with shipping would far exceed the cost of waiting for and buying the next gen.

Also, I’m very happy with the BF2 + Lyr3 I have now, so the upgradeitis is not itching too much..


----------



## sehnsucht (Dec 30, 2019)




----------



## tafens

sehnsucht said:


> Not sure if the situation is the same but sometimes Fedex invoices me for £12 for stuff I've received the the States or Hong Kong.  I just tell them I'm not going to pay it, as their contract is with the sender, not me, and that's the end of it.



Interesting. I’ll have to pay up at the counter for them to give it out to me though.


----------



## tafens

Firmware arrived and installed! 

The firmware update went along great, and thanks to the video by Schiit on YouTube I knew what to expect.

That said, had I not known how it was supposed to blink the lights, I would have thought the update had completed but not actually have got the firmware updated at all. As it turns out the SD-card was not inserted all the way and the Bifrost2 just started up normally. After a few attempts to insert the card it came in all the way (I had to push it a little bit more than I dared the first times) and the update proceeded.

@Jason Stoddard a suggestion for the firmware update page: Add a “make sure the SD-card is fully inserted” to the checklist and also link the video showing the Bifrost2 performing the firmware update. That would be great.


----------



## theveterans

Has anyone ever got the Bifrost 2 USB to work with WASAPI Event on higher sample rates (96 KHz for example)? I can only make it work with WASAPI Push unfortunately. Also, is there an ASIO driver like the Gen 2 USB from the original Bifrost?


----------



## Alcophone

theveterans said:


> Has anyone ever got the Bifrost 2 USB to work with WASAPI Event on higher sample rates (96 KHz for example)? I can only make it work with WASAPI Push unfortunately.


I have, but you really need to fiddle with the buffer values. Too small or too large of a buffer and things break, in the sense that some sample rates work, but others don't - with no apparent rhyme or reason. Different buffer values break or restore different sample rates, but inconsistently between computers.

I noticed that issue with foobar2000 and WASAPI Event, but also with Adobe Audition and ASIO4ALL. No other DAC required me to change the default WASAPI Event buffer settings in foobar2000, normally it just works.

When I contacted Schiitt, they recommended just using Push, and even disabling exclusive mode. As far as I know, WASAPI Event in exclusive mode is needed for asynchronous USB Audio. Very bizarre. But supposedly expected for Unison.



theveterans said:


> Also, is there an ASIO driver like the Gen 2 USB from the original Bifrost?


No, it's just USB 2 Audio now. Schiit themselves use ASIO4WASAPI for their measurements.


----------



## theveterans

Alcophone said:


> I have, but you really need to fiddle with the buffer values. Too small or too large of a buffer and things break, in the sense that some sample rates work, but others don't - with no apparent rhyme or reason. Different buffer values break or restore different sample rates, but inconsistently between computers.
> 
> I noticed that issue with foobar2000 and WASAPI Event, but also with Adobe Audition and ASIO4ALL. No other DAC required me to change the default WASAPI Event buffer settings in foobar2000, normally it just works.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. In any case, I'm assured that if sample rates are matching with the relay clicks on push mode, I'll let the unison do its reclocking or whatever pixie stuff it has to sound great. Unison is a tiny bit less "glary" than the SPDIF coax without exhibiting veil or smoothing effect (that's also dry sounding) which I used to hate with USB Gen 2 before at least with Schiit Bimby. Really impressed with the Unison after using SPDIF coax for a month since it's like SPDIF coax level of technicality that doesn't have that "dry" character on some tracks!


----------



## Stirrio

I'm a currrent Modi Multibit owner and love it. I listen to only CDs--a Rotel transport via SPDIF. I've been planning to buy the Gungnir (or maybe Yggy, if I'm patient enough), but the new Bifrost 2 is tempting. I read Jason's note that the Bifrost measures better, but I'm most interested in how it sounds. Do any folks with the Gungnir or Yggy have a point of comparison?


----------



## theveterans

Stirrio said:


> I'm a currrent Modi Multibit owner and love it. I listen to only CDs--a Rotel transport via SPDIF. I've been planning to buy the Gungnir (or maybe Yggy, if I'm patient enough), but the new Bifrost 2 is tempting. I read Jason's note that the Bifrost measures better, but I'm most interested in how it sounds. Do any folks with the Gungnir or Yggy have a point of comparison?



I've demoed Yggdrasil A2, Gungnir A2 and Bifrost 2 at Schiitr. Put it simply, imagine an Yggdrasil that has a tube output. You're trading the most minute microdetails and micro dynamics for a smoother/easier sound. If I put it on a scale of 10, it goes like this:

Microdetail Resolution: Yggdrasil - 10, Gungnir - 9, Bifrost 2 - 9, Modi MB - 7
Microdetail Dynamics: Yggdrasil - 10, Gungnir - 9.5, Bifrost 2 - 9, Modi MB - 7
Tonality - Yggdrasil - neutral, Gungnir - same as Yggdrasil, Bifrost 2 - neutral but with very slight mid forwardness, Modi MB - neutral but with very slight bass emphasis
Soundstage and layering: Yggdrasil - 10, Gungnir 9.5, Bifrost 2 - 9, Modi MB - 8

Keep in mind that the differences are still very exaggerated even with this scale. You would absolutely need a well mastered recording and a dead quiet room to barely hear the differences. But the jump from Modi MB to Bifrost 2 should be noticeable without critically listening unlike the jump from Bifrost 2 to Yggdrasil. Between Gungnir and Bifrost 2, it's all about the trade from the smoother Bifrost 2 to a tinny bit more neutral Gungnir. Yggdrasil is like Gungnir perfected for me


----------



## Stirrio

theveterans said:


> I've demoed Yggdrasil A2, Gungnir A2 and Bifrost 2 at Schiitr. Put it simply, imagine an Yggdrasil that has a tube output. You're trading the most minute microdetails and micro dynamics for a smoother/easier sound. If I put it on a scale of 10, it goes like this:
> 
> Microdetail Resolution: Yggdrasil - 10, Gungnir - 9, Bifrost 2 - 9, Modi MB - 7
> Microdetail Dynamics: Yggdrasil - 10, Gungnir - 9.5, Bifrost 2 - 9, Modi MB - 7
> ...



Thanks for this detailed response. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. It seems like I could be very happy with anything from the Bifrost 2 on up (the bit of warmth appeals to me, though I'd love the resolution of the bigger DACs), and I just get to decide where to draw my cost/benefit line in the sand. The Yggy might be a bit out of reach, and by your reconing the Gungnir and Bifrost 2 are very close. Hmmmm...

Anecdotally (which ain't worth much), I've loved the Mimby so much that I sold my turntable, phono pre, and all my records (300-400 of them) about two months after I got it. I do not miss them. Ever. I'm hoping my next piece of Schiit will be my endgame (with updates as Schiit releases them) for the next decade or so.


----------



## theveterans

Stirrio said:


> Thanks for this detailed response. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. It seems like I could be very happy with anything from the Bifrost 2 on up (the bit of warmth appeals to me, though I'd love the resolution of the bigger DACs), and I just get to decide where to draw my cost/benefit line in the sand. The Yggy might be a bit out of reach, and by your reconing the Gungnir and Bifrost 2 are very close. Hmmmm...
> 
> Anecdotally (which ain't worth much), I've loved the Mimby so much that I sold my turntable, phono pre, and all my records (300-400 of them) about two months after I got it. I do not miss them. Ever. I'm hoping my next piece of Schiit will be my endgame (with updates as Schiit releases them) for the next decade or so.



You definitely won't be disappointed with Bifrost 2. When you get it, I suggest to focus on the bass and treble to easily hear the improvements from Modi MB. Then as you listen for a while, you'll notice the subtle difference in their presentation where Bifrost 2 is a tiny bit more forward and micro dynamics and resolution on those frequencies start to show.


----------



## schneller

Definitely helpful comparisons. Schiit doesn't make it easy these days. First, you got the Yiggy GS, which seems like such a tempting deal. Then you have the Bifrost2, which is their latest DAC. Then you have the prospect of the Gungnir 2 Multibit with Unison and Autonomy, probably coming earlyish in 2020, much less a Yiggy with similar upgrades? 

I think a Gumby2 is what has my interest piqued the most right now, despite it probably costing 2x a Bifrost2 and a little less than a Yiggy GS...


----------



## theveterans

schneller said:


> Definitely helpful comparisons. Schiit doesn't make it easy these days. First, you got the Yiggy GS, which seems like such a tempting deal. Then you have the Bifrost2, which is their latest DAC. Then you have the prospect of the Gungnir 2 Multibit with Unison and Autonomy, probably coming earlyish in 2020, much less a Yiggy with similar upgrades?
> 
> I think a Gumby2 is what has my interest piqued the most right now, despite it probably costing 2x a Bifrost2 and a little less than a Yiggy GS...



I'm pretty sure Gumby2 would widen the gap when Unison starts rolling out. Then again, the biggest difference in their implementation is the discrete analog stage against op-amp. For me though, I'm really impressed on how much fidelity these op-amps are pumping out these days.


----------



## MarkF786

I read Allanmarcus' review in the thread, that he couldn't hear a difference between the Bifrost Multibit and Bifrost 2.  I've have some similar experiences comparing DACs in the past.

Have others compared the two and been able to more definitely hear a difference?  How would you describe the difference?


----------



## Anouk

Choices, Choices, In Janujary my birthday rolls around and its time for a new desktop rig. The only thing that I will be keeping are my active audioengine a5+ speakers.
I am pretty sure that for a headphone i will get the dca afc2 and the bifrost 2 looks really good as usbdac to connect to my laptop so that i can connect an amp and the speakers to the dac and still control volume on speakers.
But now for the amp: jotunheim balanced would be nice butthat would mean 2 cables for the headphone. The asgard 3 is cheaper and I think would also work well with my choice of headphone but then I would need xlr to rca cables for my speakers.
I cant really listen to them before ordering which setup would give the best synergy?
I also thought about the lyr 3 but dont really like tube rolling.
thanks in advance for any info/advice,
Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Ripper2860

Think of Asgard 3 as a solid state version of Lyr 3.  It uses the same 'Continuity' technology.  

That would be my choice.


----------



## jnak00

Anouk said:


> Choices, Choices, In Janujary my birthday rolls around and its time for a new desktop rig. The only thing that I will be keeping are my active audioengine a5+ speakers.
> I am pretty sure that for a headphone i will get the dca afc2 and the bifrost 2 looks really good as usbdac to connect to my laptop so that i can connect an amp and the speakers to the dac and still control volume on speakers.
> But now for the amp: jotunheim balanced would be nice butthat would mean 2 cables for the headphone. The asgard 3 is cheaper and I think would also work well with my choice of headphone but then I would need xlr to rca cables for my speakers.
> I cant really listen to them before ordering which setup would give the best synergy?
> ...



Why do you need XLR to RCA cables with the Asgard 3?  It only has single-ended outs and the A5+ has single-ended ins.  Use the volume on the Asgard to control the volume on the A5s.  Don't bother with the XLRs on the Bifrost if nothing else is balanced.


----------



## ohcrapgorillas (Nov 22, 2019)

Placed my order yesterday. I will soon be the owner of both Bifrost Multibit 1 (last revision said to be closer to Gungnir than Modi MB; I also own a Modi Multibit v2) AND a Bifrost 2.

I'm considering selling the Bifrost MB 1 and using the XLR output of B2 to run balanced cables from my speaker rig through my living room (~20ft) to my desk with my headphones, rather than having two DACs. I'd then use some kind of method to convert balanced to single-ended for my Crack. I'm on the fence about this plan, I would never run a single-ended cable longer than 9-10 ft, but balanced cables shouldn't be too negatively affected by long runs. I can also make my own XLR cables, using Mogami four core OFC, which would cut down on the cost. Unsure if things would sound better with Bifrost Multibit 1 sitting at the desk, or Bifrost 2 from across the room.


----------



## MarkF786

I just placed my order as well.  I currently have a Bifrost Multibit from early 2017, with the Gen 5 USB upgrade.  I will be curious to see if I can hear the difference between the two.  Having the XLR outs might be handy though, to use with my Jotunheim amp - though I also have a Lyr 3 amp and a Saga preamp (for remote control of volume), so I'll be using the RCA outs as well.


----------



## supervisor

received my Bifrost 2 last week for my work desktop rig, to replace Bifrost MB. balanced XLR to Jotunheim to powered ELAC NAVIS ARB-41s

i haven’t listened to the Bifrost MB for a long while, as I had been using my Hugo 2 as the desktop DAC directly into the ELACs

really enjoying being back between a Schiit rig. it sounds really special and i look forward to going to work and listening more!


----------



## Anouk

MarkF786 said:


> I just placed my order as well.  I currently have a Bifrost Multibit from early 2017, with the Gen 5 USB upgrade.  I will be curious to see if I can hear the difference between the two.  Having the XLR outs might be handy though, to use with my Jotunheim amp - though I also have a Lyr 3 amp and a Saga preamp (for remote control of volume), so I'll be using the RCA outs as well.


Hi Mark, 
Really curious to hear your evaluation of the bifrost 2 with lyr 3 and with jotunheim. What the differences are in sq and synergy.
Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## nahpungnome

MarkF786 said:


> I just placed my order as well.  I currently have a Bifrost Multibit from early 2017, with the Gen 5 USB upgrade.  I will be curious to see if I can hear the difference between the two.  Having the XLR outs might be handy though, to use with my Jotunheim amp - though I also have a Lyr 3 amp and a Saga preamp (for remote control of volume), so I'll be using the RCA outs as well.


Please let us know your comparison between the two Bifrosts.  I'm actually glad that AllanMarcus said he couldn't hear a difference as I have the Gen 5 MB myself.  Nothing about my MB sounds weird or lacking, so I don't have a real desire to upgrade...aside from GAS of course


----------



## tcellguy

Anouk said:


> Hi Mark,
> Really curious to hear your evaluation of the bifrost 2 with lyr 3 and with jotunheim. What the differences are in sq and synergy.
> Greetings, Anouk,



I have both Lyr 3 and Jotunheim. I think both are great amps and pair well with Bifrost 2. Both are great with planars such as the Aeon Flows. Both are somewhat warm amps. 

I'll describe what I hear, but it's hard for me to be super descriptive about amp / DAC differences. 

The Jotunheim has narrower sound stage and not very holographic. However, it has a really meaty bass response and does well with bassy dynamic headphones like Atticus and Emu Teak, but also adds some kick to the Aeons and ETHER headphones. Prior to getting the Bifrost 2 I was listening to the Lyr 3 more. However, I really like the Bifrost 2 / Jotunheim pairing. I think some of the hardness in the treble I was hearing in the past was related to the DAC / USB implementation rather than the amp. All that cleared up with the Bifrost 2. 

Lyr 3 has great soundstage and still very good bass (may be tube dependent; I've only used the Tung Sol - haven't had much time to tube roll). Transients are fast, but slower vs. Jotuneim. Mids are very smooth and forward with Lyr 3. Treble is non-fatiguing, but very detailed. Lyr 3 benefits from the bass response of the Bifrost and the combination has significant holographic effects where instruments start to sound delineated in space. 

Both have ample power planar headphones. 

Overall, the simplest differentiation is that Jotunheim has faster transients and more bass slam, while Lyr 3 has larger sound stage and overall smoother mids and treble. 

More relevant to this thread, the Bifrost 2 is my first higher end DAC and the improvements in sound are really noticeable vs. Modi Multibit and Modi 3. Again it's hard for me to describe, but the Bifrost 2 adds increased resolution between instruments and seems to have a quieter background, which likely is related to the Unison USB. 

vs. Modi 3, Bifrost 2 adds more detailed and noticeable bass response and clearer and more extended treble. Modi 3 does string instruments very well, but there is a bit of a digital sound at times. With Bifrost 2 everything sounds more natural and "live" to me. 

vs. Modi Multibit, Bifrost 2 adds more clarity in the treble while retaining the aggressive bass response. 

The biggest thing I noticed moving up to Bifrost 2 was layering of complex sounds. For example guitar chords gain what sound like reverberating harmonics that decay naturally and sound very much like live guitar. I didn't get this clarity to the same extent with Modi Multibit and much less with Modi 3.


----------



## theveterans

tcellguy said:


> I have both Lyr 3 and Jotunheim. I think both are great amps and pair well with Bifrost 2. Both are great with planars such as the Aeon Flows. Both are somewhat warm amps.
> 
> I'll describe what I hear, but it's hard for me to be super descriptive about amp / DAC differences.
> 
> ...



Yep. Pretty much support the differences I find with Modi Multibit and Bifrost 2. One doesn’t need to critically listen to find the improvements. IMO, you’re already experiencing a taste of high end DAC experience by getting a Bifrost 2. Beyond it is a matter of personal taste in tonality and stage presentation rather than sheer resolution and dynamics


----------



## tafens

tcellguy said:


> I have both Lyr 3 and Jotunheim. I think both are great amps and pair well with Bifrost 2. Both are great with planars such as the Aeon Flows. Both are somewhat warm amps.
> 
> I'll describe what I hear, but it's hard for me to be super descriptive about amp / DAC differences.
> 
> ...



Very nice description of the amps and DACs. I haven’t heard the Modi3, and Jotunheim only very briefly, but your description matches pretty much exactly what I hear between them too 

Let me just add something with regard to the Bifrost2 and Lyr3, which is my main rig now. Before getting the Bifrost2 I used the Lyr3 with the multibit DAC card and I the Tung-Sol reissue 6SN7. A great sounding combo for sure, but I felt that the Tung-Sol lacked a little in clarity and sounded a bit muddy at times. So I tried to tube roll a bit but didn’t really find anything better. A tube that improved clarity lacked in bass instead, was less euphonic/musical, had less sound stage, etc.

Enter the Bifrost2.
It fixed everything that I felt was lacking with the Tung-Sol and tried to fix with tube rolling (but failed), and it kept everything that was good! Which of course means that the things I found lacking were really not from the tube, but the multibit card... I was surprised that a DAC could make such a large difference as it did.

So, I still use the Tung-Sol and have acquired a quad of spares, too


----------



## MarkF786

To add a different spin on Lyr 3 vs Jotunheim:

I'm driving both amps from the Bifrost MB to the Saga to the two amps.  When I then volume match them using a multi-meter, and switch between them (which granted, is a manual process of unplugging my headphones from one, and plugging them into the other - which only take a couple seconds) I can't hear a difference.  I repeated the same test with the Valhalla 2 (using a set of headphones with appropriate impedance, in this case HD800S) and again couldn't hear a difference.

I've been an "audiophile" since the mid-80s, and back then I believed I could even hear the difference when I colored my CD edges with a green marker (for anyone who wasn't around for that fad, see https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bewaring-of-the-green/ which some people still believe works).  Nowadays, I tend to be more aware of the psychological bias that goes into hearing these differences.  I'm certainly open to the possibility that some people have more discerning ears (though it seems most scientific evidence points to the contrary).  

That's not to say that if I listen to a piece of gear over time, I believe I hear a difference, but it quickly goes away if I do a direct A-B comparison with volume precisely matched.  And it doesn't stop me from trying new gear, in hopes of finding something "better".

Hearing differences between headphones, IEMs, speakers, etc - that's obviously an easy feat.


----------



## sifulee

Hey Schiit

Are you guys having any Black Friday or Cyber Monday sales?


----------



## nerone

sifulee said:


> Hey Schiit
> 
> Are you guys having any Black Friday or Cyber Monday sales?


Don’t count on that. I guess this is the only certain thing @Jason Stoddard  is never gonna change his mind about.


----------



## sifulee

Never say never


----------



## adydula

The only sale per say are in the "deals" section of Schitt's website...B-stock and there are the usual end of life sales....

Thats it..

Alex


----------



## JerryLeeds

Question:

Is the SQ the same between the balanced and unbalanced outputs? I mean other than the power/loudness.

Has anyone heard a difference between the two outputs?

Thanks


----------



## nerone

I didn’t test both in the same setup, but in my experience the difference is negligible. 
I also read the same impressions in other places.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Thks .... RCA will go to an SMSL SP200 THX amp and the XLR will go to a liquid platinum hybrid tube amp


----------



## ohcrapgorillas

JerryLeeds said:


> Question:
> 
> Is the SQ the same between the balanced and unbalanced outputs? I mean other than the power/loudness.
> 
> ...



I'm no engineer, so I'm quoting them secondhand, but I recall reading that Schiit had "gimped" the SE outputs of Gungnir and Yggdrasil, so they didn't perform as well as the balanced outputs. With Bifrost 2, they decided not to "gimp" the SE outputs and so they are effectively identical to the balanced outputs. Any difference you hear between the two is more likely due to running the amp/headphones as balanced, rather than being a difference between the DAC's outputs. You can read about it in Schiit's own words on the Bifrost 2 thread.


----------



## theveterans

ohcrapgorillas said:


> With Bifrost 2, they decided not to "gimp" the SE outputs and so they are effectively identical to the balanced outputs. Any difference you hear between the two is more likely due to running the amp/headphones as balanced, rather than being a difference between the DAC's outputs. You can read about it in Schiit's own words on the Bifrost 2 thread.



Bifrost 2's output stage is opamp based. Can't really see how they would "gimp" it given that it's not a discrete output stage where careful implementations are needed for it to sound identical to balanced and single ended output. Unless Schiit deliberately use different opamp chip for SE and balanced out that is


----------



## Jason Stoddard

ohcrapgorillas said:


> I'm no engineer, so I'm quoting them secondhand, but I recall reading that Schiit had "gimped" the SE outputs of Gungnir and Yggdrasil, so they didn't perform as well as the balanced outputs. With Bifrost 2, they decided not to "gimp" the SE outputs and so they are effectively identical to the balanced outputs. Any difference you hear between the two is more likely due to running the amp/headphones as balanced, rather than being a difference between the DAC's outputs. You can read about it in Schiit's own words on the Bifrost 2 thread.



If you go back to the chapters that explain the products, here's what we said: Yggdrasil and Gungnir have summed single-ended outputs _to retain the benefits of their hardware-balanced configuration_ (2 DACs per channel). Bifrost does not need summed outputs SE outputs, because it is not hardware balanced (a significantly less expensive approach).

Due to this summing, the SE outputs measure differently, but if you go through all the nervosa where people tried balanced out from Gungnir and Yggdrasil though transformers, or used only a single phase, the results were inferior (or at least not superior) to summing.

We didn't add the summing in to "gimp" the output. We added it to improve the output.

Believe me, at the cost of producing Yggdrasil and Gungnir, if we didn't need to add it, we wouldn't have. So, seriously, let's stop this talk of "gimping." Repeating hearsay is never good. Especially when it's an opinion based on a misconception.


----------



## ohcrapgorillas

Jason Stoddard said:


> If you go back to the chapters that explain the products, here's what we said: Yggdrasil and Gungnir have summed single-ended outputs _to retain the benefits of their hardware-balanced configuration_ (2 DACs per channel). Bifrost does not need summed outputs SE outputs, because it is not hardware balanced (a significantly less expensive approach).
> 
> Due to this summing, the SE outputs measure differently, but if you go through all the nervosa where people tried balanced out from Gungnir and Yggdrasil though transformers, or used only a single phase, the results were inferior (or at least not superior) to summing.
> 
> ...



That all makes sense, thanks for clearing this up and my apologies for getting it so wrong. Bifrost 2 is seriously an excellent DAC and y'all have done amazing work.


----------



## dglow

I have a Yggdrasil, and suspect a good deal of the _perceived_ inferiority of the SE outputs lies in their levels being so much lower than the balanced outs. This can be compensated for, of course, but we're talking about perception. 

Yggy's balanced output is very hot. It's also very, very delicious.


----------



## adydula

No real world discernable difference in SQ.....

Alex


----------



## axlic0

Should Bitrost 2 start to support 384/24 bit now?


----------



## Currawong

axlic0 said:


> Should Bitrost 2 start to support 384/24 bit now?



I thought about suggesting this for the Yggdrasil, but in the end, I reckon the answer is "no". The only reason for 384k support is so that you can experiment with different digital filters, and the reason you buy a DAC from Schiit is so that you get Mike Moffat's lifetime of work with digital filters.


----------



## adydula

I have the original Bifrost here and its become my standard reference, goto Dac.....and with the advent of the Bifrost 2 I like many others are once again drooling and wondering
whether to update or not...

One person has done some listening tests between the first and now second generation and has not been able to discern any real work differences between the two...

I am fortunate to have a Beta Unison board in my Bifrost "1" and its working very well.

The new chips, and over-sampling, new power supply circuitry, the ability to update is nice....but to me its all about the sound...

So here we go again, to update or not.....

Its a great pastime!

Alex
:>)


----------



## ohcrapgorillas (Dec 7, 2019)

I own the Bifrost 2 and the Bifrost Multibit (never heard the D/S Bifrosts except briefly at a meet with other unfamiliar gear). Whether to upgrade or not is a personal choice based on your budget and what you want out of your system, but here's what I find the differences to be, in order of magnitude of difference. ymmv based on all the other variables in your own setup of course:

* Staging is the big one. Soundstage is bigger, deeper, and imaging/separation  are more coherent. Renders spatial cues better. Unison USB (source: xDuoo X10TII) takes on a slightly tubey sense of space.

* Tonality is still on the warm, dark side but way way closer to neutral than Bifrost Multibit. BMB leans harder into the warm/full/dark tuning, B2 is more neutral. Keep in mind I mostly use super warm DACs so my definition of neutral is a bit off. I actually prefer the BMB tuning, but B2 is superior in just about every other way.

* Bass extension, slam, texture, and dynamics are better.

* Blacker background yields better microdetail and dynamics.

Using Oppo BDP-103 as a SPDIF source and xDuoo X10TII as a USB source. I actually find the Oppo's SPDIF to be slightly more focused and snappy with percussion in particular than Unison. I had really high hopes for Unison but I still prefer coax.

I am really enjoying this DAC and it's probably too soon to say for sure, but right now I don't see myself upgrading from it (especially since I'm pretty sure I couldn't even afford anything competitive). I feel like this could easily be end-game for all but the most discerning (or wealthy) audiophiles.


----------



## Alcophone

Currawong said:


> I thought about suggesting this for the Yggdrasil, but in the end, I reckon the answer is "no". The only reason for 384k support is so that you can experiment with different digital filters, and the reason you buy a DAC from Schiit is so that you get Mike Moffat's lifetime of work with digital filters.


Well, as far as I know the Modi Multibit still works at 192 kHz internally, acting as a NOS DAC if you feed it 192 kHz.

Also there's this x8 LED on the Yggdrasil just in case the unlikely happens


----------



## ev666il

Pulled the trigger on a black Bifrost 2. Hopefully it'll be here by next weekend along with a pair of PYST RCA to hook it up with my Asgard 3.

Time to upgrade to Windows 10, then...


----------



## exdmd

axlic0 said:


> Should Bitrost 2 start to support 384/24 bit now?


Not according to the published specs up to 24/192 for all inputs. Even Yggdrasil only supports up to 24/192.


----------



## 441879

This thread is exactly why I need to stop visiting Head-Fi.  I ordered a Bifrost 2 today to replace my Topping D50. On the bright side, if I can’t hear any difference, I have 15 days to send it back.

will


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 8, 2019)

Bifrost 2 replaced my Topping D50 into Lyr 3.  I do not think you will be disappointed.


----------



## 441879

Ripper2860 said:


> Bifrost 2 replaced my Topping D50 into Lyr 3.  I do not think you will be disappointed.



Now that you mention it, I remember your signature included a D50 for some time. I didn’t realize you upgraded. Anyway, thanks for saying so. It makes the departure of $699 a little less painful.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 8, 2019)

I replaced Modi MB with the Topping D50 in my HP rig and then moved Modi MB to my 2-channel rig.  I got the Bifrost 2 for the HP rig and moved the Topping D50 to my 2-channel rig, replacing Modi MB.  I liked Bifrost 2 on my HP rig so much that I got a 2nd Bifrost 2 for the 2-channel rig, replacing the Topping D50 again.

I have 2 of them, so I'm pretty invested in Bifrost 2.  

I have this problem with selling gear, so Modi will be a Christmas gift along with a Magni 3 I had prior to Lyr 3.  Topping D50 will be used in another room with my Valhalla 2.


----------



## theveterans

will f said:


> This thread is exactly why I need to stop visiting Head-Fi.  I ordered a Bifrost 2 today to replace my Topping D50. On the bright side, if I can’t hear any difference, I have 15 days to send it back.
> 
> will



 You probably will notice the difference especially in the mids and bass impact


----------



## 441879

theveterans said:


> You probably will notice the difference especially in the mids and bass impact



That should be interesting. From what I’ve read it’s a very musical DAC so I’m looking forward to hearing what that means for this particular piece of gear.


----------



## AlanU

theveterans said:


> One main difference aside from the sound between the Bifrost MB and the Bifrost 2 is that the Bifrost 2 definitely runs much warmer than the original. Maybe it has to do with balanced output running simultaneously with SE though I haven't tried the Balanced output since my Saga is only SE.
> 
> Anyways, I'm loving how Bifrost 2 sounds with SPDIF Coax. It's just so frigging musical with no sibilance while giving off that "Chord signature micro level detail and timing retrieval" that I enjoy with their Hugo/Hugo2 DACs when I demoed them



Try looking for an old  pre owned Stello U3 usb to spdif converter. I have no documentation on specs but it simply changes the solid state dac to something more tolerable eliminating shear highs and creates an almost vinyl presentation (for digital files/streaming). I recently purchased a topping D10 for the purpose of DDC (usb to spdif). I still would like the D10 to settle in before I get very critical.  Even though it's quite fluid with slight analog characteristics taking away digititis from solid state dacs, it's no comparison to the April Music Stello u3. Easy listening presentation but this still has not create "even" pleasant  harmonics and "air" surrounding instruments like Vacuum tube gear. 

Oddly it seems even with the newest USB implementations,  having  24bit digital information fed via coax input creates pleasant presentation in solid state dacs.


----------



## theveterans (Dec 9, 2019)

.





AlanU said:


> Try looking for an old pre owned Stello U3 usb to spdif converter. I have no documentation on specs but it simply changes the solid state dac to something more tolerable eliminating shear highs and creates an almost vinyl presentation (for digital files/streaming). I recently purchased a topping D10 for the purpose of DDC (usb to spdif). I still would like the D10 to settle in before I get very critical. Even though it's quite fluid with slight analog characteristics taking away digititis from solid state dacs, it's no comparison to the April Music Stello u3. Easy listening presentation but this still has not create "even" pleasant harmonics and "air" surrounding instruments like Vacuum tube gear.



Interesting that you have that kind of synergy using usb to spdif coax on your system. Actually, I use to have my W4S uLink fed to the original Bifrost MB that I have since the USB implementation didn't reproduce microdetails such as the overtones of common instruments as well as coax and it also gets congested in the bass region. Now with Bifrost 2, I find that the synergy with my W4S USB to coax solution sounded a tinny bit analytical/slightly edgier on the overtones nevertheless far less straining than hyperclean/hypermeasuring DS DACs. With Unison, it retained the same overtones and microdetails that I crave with the coax input but this time the sound is a tiny bit more relaxed in presentation. The bass region and staging + layering between Unison and Coax are indistinguishable to me though, but the hi-hats and other mid to mid-high frequency overtones with Unison sounded a bit more relaxed to me yet retaining that delicate overtones with "lifelike" presentation while hyper-measuring DS DACs reproduce the overtones (omitting some as well) without sounding "lifelike".


----------



## AlanU

theveterans said:


> .
> 
> Interesting that you have that kind of synergy using usb to spdif coax on your system. Actually, I use to have my W4S uLink fed to the original Bifrost MB that I have since the USB implementation didn't reproduce microdetails such as the overtones of common instruments as well as coax and it also gets congested in the bass region. Now with Bifrost 2, I find that the synergy with my W4S USB to coax solution sounded a tinny bit analytical/slightly edgier on the overtones nevertheless far less straining than hyperclean/hypermeasuring DS DACs. With Unison, it retained the same overtones and microdetails that I crave with the coax input but this time the sound is a tiny bit more relaxed in presentation. The bass region and staging + layering between Unison and Coax are indistinguishable to me though, but the hi-hats and other mid to mid-high frequency overtones with Unison sounded a bit more relaxed to me yet retaining that delicate overtones with "lifelike" presentation while hyper-measuring DS DACs reproduce the overtones (omitting some as well) without sounding "lifelike".



Have you put many hours on the DAC? I can say in theory speakers requires "break in" period due to the woofer suspension causing congestion. For electronics I even consider break in period to be questionable but I do feel it can be a potential change in SQ.

As this is much of a casual hobby pastime,  I have noticed that DDC can have quite a different sound signature. When i used my concero HD as a USB/Spdif converter it was just as digititis as you can get. The Stello U3 has been raved about back in the day in UHF magazine with great musical qualities. I just installed the Topping D10 yesterday as a DDC to coax input to my preamp. The Topping DAC/DDC sounds great making the SQ more pleasant but not in the same league as the stello u3. When I do a/b comparison with my solid state dac to Tube dac it's quite a drastic jump. 

Time and time again I've purchased, tested and auditioned gear. The more I discuss tube gear with a designer he warned me that it's really hard to walk away from Vacuum tube gear once you've experienced it. The life like presentation you speak of has been a quest for me to find with holographic sound coming from solid state gear. I love reading about brand new gear.......

Nice to read that you also experience pleasant improvements from Digital to digital conversion.......


----------



## adydula (Dec 9, 2019)

Back several months ago I tested all the digital inputs from a PC to the Bifrost 1. Coax, Optical against the USB Gen 5 and now the Unison USB ( I have a beta Unison board from Schitt that will be available sometime in early 2020)....I also compared with a good CD player or transport...

I can honestly say there was NO real discernible difference in sound quality if you play the same material, level matched etc...whether it was blind or simple AB testing....if you can keep your fingers off the volume pot its really hard to hear sonic differences with a good set of cans....IMO of course...

Now if you talk to the interface being reliable, pops and tics, noise from PC or other sources this cab be an issue...but take that away, the sound is pretty much the same.

The real differences is in the headphones, a piece of gears ability to drive a load ( impedance matching)....

The Bifrost 2, with its new chips, and power supply updates, and unison usb along with upgrade ability makes a really nice package....it should be the sonic equivalent to the B1 or better ..but
doing an real AB I will bet they are really close.

Alex


----------



## theveterans

AlanU said:


> The more I discuss tube gear with a designer he warned me that it's really hard to walk away from Vacuum tube gear once you've experienced it. The life like presentation you speak of has been a quest for me to find with holographic sound coming from solid state gear.



Adding Schiit Saga as my preamp enhanced that holographic sound that Schiit Bifrost 2 provides. To me, I prefer the tube preamp that solely enhance the soundstage and layering rather than add tonality to the sound provided by the DAC. Contrary to many tube amps or tube preamps, Schiit Saga (OG) does not sound like a tube preamp in my near field listening system but very linear and background noise free just like a jfet active preamp. In this sense, the system sounded more "lifelike" to my tonality preferences. It would be shocking for many people who think active near field monitors (only near field monitors without built-in DSP as the analog signal is converted back to digital for DSP) sound too analytical for music listening when they hear the same speaker setup fed with audiophile gears.


----------



## erics75

If anyone has the Bifrost 2 and Metrum Amethyst, would love to hear a comparison. I know it's a long shot, but worth asking.


----------



## Baten

erics75 said:


> If anyone has the Bifrost 2 and Metrum Amethyst, would love to hear a comparison. I know it's a long shot, but worth asking.


Metrum is a NOS DAC, right? Will have smoother treble and can never sound as wide. Bifrost will have more detailed hights due to OS, better sense of space.

Depends on taste, smoother sound or more resolving/detailed? I personally love NOS DACs but have personally heard the Bifrost.


----------



## AlanU

adydula said:


> Back several months ago I tested all the digital inputs from a PC to the Bifrost 1. Coax, Optical against the USB Gen 5 and now the Unison USB ( I have a beta Unison board from Schitt that will be available sometime in early 2020)....I also compared with a good CD player or transport...
> 
> I can honestly say there was NO real discernible difference in sound quality if you play the same material, level matched etc...whether it was blind or simple AB testing....if you can keep your fingers off the volume pot its really hard to hear sonic differences with a good set of cans....IMO of course...
> 
> ...



Interesting test...….

Every DAC/usb input I've compared  with my Stello U3 has had a very noticeable difference in sound character. Using an Atlas Opus 1.5m cable and even a blue jeans cheapy there's some differences that is rather audible while using the Stello u3 or even the Toppings D10 used as a usb to spdif converter.

I suppose this all comes down to the combination of components.






adydula said:


> Back several months ago I tested all the digital inputs from a PC to the Bifrost 1. Coax, Optical against the USB Gen 5 and now the Unison USB ( I have a beta Unison board from Schitt that will be available sometime in early 2020)....I also compared with a good CD player or transport...
> 
> I can honestly say there was NO real discernible difference in sound quality if you play the same material, level matched etc...whether it was blind or simple AB testing....if you can keep your fingers off the volume pot its really hard to hear sonic differences with a good set of cans....IMO of course...
> 
> ...


----------



## AlanU

theveterans said:


> Adding Schiit Saga as my preamp enhanced that holographic sound that Schiit Bifrost 2 provides. To me, I prefer the tube preamp that solely enhance the soundstage and layering rather than add tonality to the sound provided by the DAC. Contrary to many tube amps or tube preamps, Schiit Saga (OG) does not sound like a tube preamp in my near field listening system but very linear and background noise free just like a jfet active preamp. In this sense, the system sounded more "lifelike" to my tonality preferences. It would be shocking for many people who think active near field monitors (only near field monitors without built-in DSP as the analog signal is converted back to digital for DSP) sound too analytical for music listening when they hear the same speaker setup fed with audiophile gears.



I used a pair of Kef R100's as my near field setup on my desktop for a while. I decided I appreciate desk space so I ended up going with inexpensive audioengine A2 with an ancient 8" energy sub.

So many ways to skin a cat in terms of preference of sound. My Tube dac I recently installed two Kt88 buffer tubes (odd isn't it....many people use it for amplification!!) This is where my Space tech Labs dac has jaw dropping organic analog sound that is so far from digital. The higher DSD tube dac model I'm considering can easily drive Kt150 vacuum tubes as a buffer!! This is where my current dac I get excellent detail while I can actually control the high and low frequency roll off using different tubes. This is where a friend of mine shakes his head amazed in the SQ vs his $6000+ Blue circle dac. I can change my Tube dac's buffer tubes from a 5881 to KT88 and change my entire system's sound signature. Changing the super rectifier tubes feeding my Tube dac and change the dynamics as well going from mercury blue vapour tubes to a 300B. If I want to have a sold state sound (ewwwww) I can literally remove the rectifier tube and put in a full bridge diode rectifier cct (modified on a vacuum tube base) and get the typical solid state sound with the flavours provided simply from the buffer tubes.

This is where I can make a dark,  warm speaker/headphone to wake up in more dynamics or make it dreadfully warmer and syrupy. This is something I've yet to even do with any solid state setup. I can make my tube dac like a solid state dac by removing the tube bloom by changing to different tubes.

I will look into the schiit saga. I'm changing things around at home so I'm always exploring new ideas.....


----------



## 441879

Well my Bifrost 2 arrived today and I just plugged it in. 

My initial impression is that it’s a very obvious improvement over my Topping D50. I’m actually surprised how obvious the difference is. When I switched from my Modi 2U the difference was small and I could see why some people would prefer the Modi over the D50. That’s not the case at all when going to the Bifrost 2.

It is very smooth yet more detailed and quite euphonic compared to the D50. That’s not even the best part: Spatial imaging is like nothing I’ve heard before. Some posters have described it as holographic and it definitely is a big step up from anything I’ve experienced prior to the Bifrost 2. I suspect what I am perceiving as more detail is actually enhanced imaging, which seems to take full advantage of the great imaging capabilities of the Clear.

Anyway, I can confirm that the Bifrost 2 -> Lyr 3 -> Focal Clear is an awesome combination.


----------



## theveterans (Dec 12, 2019)

[edit: post deleted]


----------



## adydula

will f,

I have basically the same chain as you and agree 100% this combination is spectacular!!

Enjoy
Alex


----------



## Ripper2860

will f said:


> Well my Bifrost 2 arrived today and I just plugged it in.
> 
> My initial impression is that it’s a very obvious improvement over my Topping D50. I’m actually surprised how obvious the difference is. When I switched from my Modi 2U to the D50, the difference was small and I could see why some people would prefer the Modi over the D50. That’s not the case at all when going from the D50 to the Bifrost 2.
> 
> ...




Give it a day or two and it will improve a tad more...


----------



## AlanU

will f said:


> Well my Bifrost 2 arrived today and I just plugged it in.
> 
> My initial impression is that it’s a very obvious improvement over my Topping D50. I’m actually surprised how obvious the difference is. When I switched from my Modi 2U to the D50, the difference was small and I could see why some people would prefer the Modi over the D50. That’s not the case at all when going from the D50 to the Bifrost 2.
> 
> ...





I would suggest testing your Bitfrost 2  dac and feed it with the Topping D50 (used as usb to spdif) via coaxial .

I am guessing you will hear a different presentation. Possibly bigger sound stage or smaller. The vocals will either become more forward or recessed. The music may blend more with more air around the instruments.

I definitely do not ever do any critical listening until I put a good 50-200  hours on the unit.

Your setup has some resolving capabilities to hear a difference. I take "holographic sound" by reducing detail to a degree but providing the impression of true realism in life. The more detail I hear in some combos it can potentially reduce the "real to life" sound and get more into the artificially reproduced hyper detail that we have been forced to believe as "better".

For example analyze note decay and cymbals or strumming of strings. In some cases you can hear more detail but it's just hyper detail. In some cases a hair more air surrounding the instruments/vocals can provide an airy sound, blending the music with less pin point location. This is what resembles more of a live performance.  Keep that in the back of your mind and then listen to your headphones/stereo.

I bank on your Topping D50 used as a DDC feeding coax to the Bitfrost 2 will sound better or at least different in a pleasant way. I am using a Topping D10 as a DDC to feed my Sabre dac and the sound is much more analog, smoother in detail that is more tolerable. The way the D50 converts usb to spdif will be different in how schiit approaches conversion via USB connection. There should be an audible difference. In my particular situation I've always heard a difference when a dac is fed via coax "in" vs USB.


----------



## 441879

AlanU said:


> I would suggest testing your Bitfrost 2  dac and feed it with the Topping D50 (used as usb to spdif) via coaxial .
> 
> I am guessing you will hear a different presentation. Possibly bigger sound stage or smaller. The vocals will either become more forward or recessed. The music may blend more with more air around the instruments.
> 
> ...


Interesting idea, but I’m not seeing how to feed the BF2 with the D50. The D50 has 3 digital ins and one analog out. How would I feed a digital into the BF2?


----------



## AlanU

will f said:


> Interesting idea, but I’m not seeing how to feed the BF2 with the D50. The D50 has 3 digital ins and one analog out. How would I feed a digital into the BF2?



You can feed usb to the topping D50 and use the Coax "out" to feed the Bitfrost.

Even very good USB implementation I've heard sonic differences using a usb to spdif converter. You cannot go beyond 24 bit but in almost every case I've found a smoother presentation.

Since you own the D50 already this is a no brainer "fun" test. In my case I purchased the Topping D50 strictly to us only for usb to spdif conversion. In fact I have not even tested or heard the DAC in that unit as I  have no interest in the sabre dac application.

I love buying and testing tweaks to see if they make a difference. In my case I will have fun and "never" justify my purchases. If I hear no difference I will admit to it. When my "perception" (want to sound open minded to non believers) hears a difference I will really just enjoy...….

You will never know till you try. Folks that scream some tweaks are nonsense......it's fine as they should understand "individuals" have control of their personal wallets


----------



## adydula

I agree its your wallet....I have gone thru this and tested all the interfaces to my dac. USB 1, USB2, USB 3, Gen 5, Unison, and coax and optical.
None of these IMO make a real difference to get excited about....

The only one of these that did make a difference positively was the Unison USB interface from Schitt Audio...

Most USB "improvements" seem to be in relation to connectivity, noise reduction etc....but sonically side by side with my AB testing its no where near
the differences you can get with different headphones etc...

But gadgets are neat and you can afford them and its your thing....spend, spend, spend!!!

lol

Alex


----------



## AlanU

adydula said:


> I agree its your wallet....I have gone thru this and tested all the interfaces to my dac. USB 1, USB2, USB 3, Gen 5, Unison, and coax and optical.
> None of these IMO make a real difference to get excited about....
> 
> The only one of these that did make a difference positively was the Unison USB interface from Schitt Audio...
> ...



Adding a USB to spdif converter has just as much impact in potential change. DDC conversion is a different conversion step that will then be converted from digital to analog.

what miraculous change  can a USB interface change to source music? Does it add stuff?  There are plenty of engineers capable of creating ccts for USB interface.  The change you are hearing can also be improvements in the electronics supporting the DAC chipset.  

In your case improvements can be obtained by moving up the tier in the DAC lineup. That is where DAC  all sound different to a certain extent.

when you state “connectivity” you also imply the cabling as that is the means of transportation of data.  You see the validity in the collective combo is what you are listening too.

Are  all ddc equivalent and all identical?  In other words is USB to SPDIF all created equal? If you answer yes that is absolutely incorrect. This is where you would sonically hear a difference. USB interfaces are not created equal either so this is another reason why there’s potential for different sonic differences which can be drastic or minimal.

Using my April music Stello u3 As a USB to SPDIF converter it sounds substantially different than the topping D10.

if you think you have holographic and transparent music with your current set up there is always a lot more room to move in sound quality.  This is where even the semi affordable price of the Yggy Is just a different taste of digital to analogue conversion but not endgame for many.

This is where having a very transparent system you can truly entertain yourself to see if a tweak makes a difference.


----------



## adydula

Please define what a truly transparent system is in objective terms?


----------



## genck

adydula said:


> Please define what a truly transparent system is in objective terms?


one that you can see through, duh


----------



## adydula

Ok, Thats a great answer and really explains alot.....

"one that you can see through, duh"


----------



## Dana Reed

adydula said:


> Please define what a truly transparent system is in objective terms?


Since all that really matters is audibly transparent, that’s probably going to vary from person to person. Objectively transparent in measured performance would just mean you have reached the limit of your measurement system


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## adydula

Well Dana, 

Thats a better answer to my question.....but how do "You" know what is an audibly transparent system is? 

Vary from person to person, agree, we all have opinions.

Your objectively transparent statement is very interesting....


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## Ripper2860 (Dec 12, 2019)

I tried USB -> EITR -> Bifrost 2 and found that I preferred USB -> Bifrost 2.  Unison has a wee bit more dynamic range, timbre, and detail than EITR -> SPDIF on Bifrost 2.

I have a Topping D50 laying about so I may give it a try, but then again, I'm pretty freaking happy with the sound of Bifrost 2 USB.


----------



## 441879

adydula said:


> Ok, Thats a great answer and really explains alot.....
> 
> "one that you can see through, duh"



I thought it was funny.


----------



## theveterans

Ripper2860 said:


> I tried USB -> EITR -> Bifrost 2 and found that I preferred USB -> Bifrost 2.  Unison has a wee bit more dynamic range, timbre, and detail than EITR -> SPDIF on Bifrost 2.
> 
> I have a Topping D50 laying about so I may give it a try, but then again, I'm pretty freaking happy with the sound of Bifrost 2 USB.



Not surprised BTW. Eitr is based on Gen 5 USB so Unison beats it. IMO, Unison doesn’t have glaring faults that I find with Schiit C-Media USBs of the past where my iFi iUSB 3.0 + Wyred 4 Sound uLink SPDIF combo is audibly superior. Now, I only have the iUSB to Unison where that combo is better on the micro dynamics (with equal amount of micro detail) than my iUSB with uLink SPDIF transport. You would probably need Dante interface AoIP to coax (or AES/EBU) to beat Unison IMO.


----------



## adydula (Dec 13, 2019)

Lots and lots of opinions on this...

On the Unison USB topic I have been using a Beta Unison board for a few months and subjectively listening to it compared to coax or optical I much prefer Unison over those connection and over the older Gen 5.

Balanced is nice for those that want that in their chain.

The really nice upgrade for me is the improvement in the power supplies, its regulation for different parts of the circuits. Great design improvement to me from an electrical engineering standpoint, couple this with its ability to resolve a -144dB signal. 24 bits makes this mid priced dac one that will make most people very happy for a long time.

Alex


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## darylobert

Hello,  I am thinking of upgrading to a Bifrost2 for my LYR3 that has a built-in Multibit driving Either 2's.  My question is, will I notice any improvement if my source audio is not that great.  I principally listen to live DJ sets, and it is mostly streamed at 192 to 320kbps.

Thanks for any thoughts!
Daryl


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## Ripper2860

Welcome, Daryl!!  I cannot speak authoritatively re: your source and how BF will perform, but we have a lot of great folks here that can likely help.  I will tell you that BF2 is AWESOME!!


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## adydula

If your Lyr 3 has the Schitt MB adapter in it, I wouldnt think it would be that much better.....fwiw....my opinion.

I dont think spending $600 would give you a great improvement...

Alex


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## Ripper2860

OK, Alex.  WTH are you doing!?  We've gone over this time and time again -- *LOGIC HAS NO PLACE IN AUDIO!!*


----------



## adydula

Yeah but the guy has a new Lyr3 with multibit...

Logic yup your right, spend, spend, spend!!!

I know your kidding, and yes the B2 would work well, but honestly you and I know its probably not going to work any better in this situation that the Lyr3 MB combo.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it......

Dr. Spock Audio....


----------



## tincanear (Dec 13, 2019)

darylobert said:


> Hello,  I am thinking of upgrading to a Bifrost2 for my LYR3 that has a built-in Multibit driving Either 2's.  My question is, will I notice any improvement if my source audio is not that great.  I principally listen to live DJ sets, and it is mostly streamed at 192 to 320kbps.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts!
> Daryl



for 192 to 320kbps streamed mp3, I don't think moving to Bifrost 2 will make a noticeable difference (I can clearly hear artifacts of the lossy algorithms, particularly on the decay of notes and loss of ambience).  if source is using flac or alac coding with really good (expensive) mics and limited processing, then differences are more likely to be audible.   YMMV.  other way is to try it and see (using 15-day money back, but you lose shipping costs & re-stock fee).

i'm interested in your opinion about the ether 2's.  what over-the-ear headphones have you used prior to those, and how do those compare?  using Bifrost Multibit (original gen 1) / Asgard / AKG K702 currently.  thx.


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## Ripper2860 (Dec 14, 2019)

adydula said:


> I know your kidding, and yes the B2 would work well, but honestly you and I know its probably not going to work any better in this situation that the Lyr3 MB combo.



I will not let you lure me into your dastardly 'web of truth' !!!


----------



## Rensek (Dec 13, 2019)

darylobert said:


> Hello,  I am thinking of upgrading to a Bifrost2 for my LYR3 that has a built-in Multibit driving Either 2's.  My question is, will I notice any improvement if my source audio is not that great.  I principally listen to live DJ sets, and it is mostly streamed at 192 to 320kbps.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts!
> Daryl



The Lyr 3 multibit card is USB only.

@Ripper2860 has TWO Bifrost 2s, and I believe he is using USB almost exclusively.

I have a modi 3 and modi multibit, which has a similar USB implementation to the cards. In my opinion the USB on my modi 3 and modi multibit is the weakest of the three digital inputs. It is, to me, a night and day difference compared to coaxial and optical.  But we all focus on different things when we listen.

Unison USB is supposed to be as good as if not better then optical or coaxial on Bifrost 2. Maybe you want more then USB.

Ripper has a modi multibit, and an eitr, and he liked Bifrost 2 USB so much he bought a second Bifrost 2 about a month later.

If you can afford the Bifrost 2 and want to take a chance I say give it a go.

Also, I didn't even talk about the better DAC chips, full megacomboburrito filter, better output stage, better power supply, better signal separation (separate components), etc.

It is both objectively and subjectively better.

Remote! Phase Control!

Also, it has a 15 day return window. ( I wish this was 30, or 60 on higher priced item.)

Or you could always take a non returnable leap of faith and buy a Bifrost 4490 or Bifrost Multibit (Long Live Bimby).


----------



## AlanU

darylobert said:


> Hello,  I am thinking of upgrading to a Bifrost2 for my LYR3 that has a built-in Multibit driving Either 2's.  My question is, will I notice any improvement if my source audio is not that great.  I principally listen to live DJ sets, and it is mostly streamed at 192 to 320kbps.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts!
> Daryl



More like a lateral move......

You're better off rolling vacuum tube (singular)  with the Lyr3 and benefit from either a modern day Reissue 6sn7 28buck Tungsol or a vintage Sylvania 1950's equivalence or others. The optional  Schiit multibit card you have can be sold off  or bypassed. Getting a higher performing dac will prevent  upgraditis or delay future temptations. You will be better off skipping the Bitfrost2 and painfully move up the chain or other much better performing dacs compared to your current. Use the Lyr3 to drive your Cans and benefit across the board with a better source.

Your streamed resolution at 320kbps will still sound great upgrading to a better DAC. If do your research you will find that you're better off saving more money and benefit in the long run. Your current standalone solution is a good desktop.

What genre do you listen too? Spending some money on a new pair of cans (transducer)  with a different sound signature WOULD BE MORE of a drastic change going the lateral route vs optional Schiit multibit vs bitfrost2. 

My suggestion...... stick with your Lyr3 for now and swap tubes to "taste". Cry and spend copious amounts of money on a higher end DAC. Jumping up a level or two  is always better than minimal baby steps doing the lateral route. You will spend more money in the long run taking smaller steps...been there , done that.....


----------



## tincanear

AlanU said:


> More like a lateral move......
> 
> You're better off rolling vacuum tube (singular)  with the Lyr3 and benefit from either a modern day Reissue 6sn7 28buck Tungsol or a vintage Sylvania 1950's equivalence or others. The optional  Schiit multibit card you have can be sold off  or bypassed. Getting a higher performing dac will prevent  upgraditis or delay future temptations. You will be better off skipping the Bitfrost2 and painfully move up the chain or other much better performing dacs compared to your current. Use the Lyr3 to drive your Cans and benefit across the board with a better source.
> 
> ...



good points about multiple side-grades or slight upgrades costing more in the long run.  for instance, when upgrading computers, I typically keep them for three or more generations of CPU.


----------



## darylobert

Thanks for all of the replies!  I just started a new role and will now be working out of an office.  With this change I want to build a second system that uses closed back cans. To minimize cost I was thinking of pulling the Multibit card out of the lyr3 and putting it in a used Asgard2 or Jotunheim, then use the Bifrost2 with the LYR3.  I have rolled a few tubs in the LYR3, it was fun, I ended up on Psvane UK-6SN7.


----------



## genck

darylobert said:


> Thanks for all of the replies!  I just started a new role and will now be working out of an office.  With this change I want to build a second system that uses closed back cans. To minimize cost I was thinking of pulling the Multibit card out of the lyr3 and putting it in a used Asgard2 or Jotunheim, then use the Bifrost2 with the LYR3.  I have rolled a few tubs in the LYR3, it was fun, I ended up on Psvane UK-6SN7.


You can't put any card into an Asgard 2, it's an amp only.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yep -- you'd need to go with Asgard 3 or Jotunheim.


----------



## darylobert

genck said:


> You can't put any card into an Asgard 2, it's an amp only.


Cool, thanks for the info.


----------



## ev666il

Interestingly, in the Asgard 3 thread people say the Modi MB is audibly superior to the MB card—therefore, more so should be the Bifrost 2. Granted, they’re probably talking about lossless sources.


----------



## tafens

darylobert said:


> Hello,  I am thinking of upgrading to a Bifrost2 for my LYR3 that has a built-in Multibit driving Either 2's.  My question is, will I notice any improvement if my source audio is not that great.  I principally listen to live DJ sets, and it is mostly streamed at 192 to 320kbps.
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts!
> Daryl



I thought I’d add my 5 cents to the discussion as I come from roughly the same place as you; perhaps not geographically, but sonically as I listen a lot to my library of 256kbit AAC (yes, yes I know, pretty close to sonic heresy ).

I recently upgraded to a Bifrost2 from the multibit card in my Lyr3 (yes I specifically say upgraded, _not_ side-graded). Because in my ears it is definitely an upgrade. Switching between Bifrost2 and multibit card is immediately noticeable (still have the multibit card in the Lyr3, so I just switch the usb cable between them).
Moving to the Bifrost2, from the multibit card, I hear improvements in just about every regard, including but not limited to: larger soundstage and greater sense of space, better definition and separation, more clarity, and in places where the multibit card can sometimes sound congested (constipated?) the Bifrost2 does not.

So the short answer to your question (with the usual you have your ears and I have mine paragraph) is yes, yes you most probably will, also with mp3, aac and such source material (but you’ll also hear the compression artifacts better, too).

Aside: When I get my butt out of the listening chair and a correct size Allen wrench I’ll move the multibit card to an Asgard3 as an alternate setup.


----------



## tafens

ev666il said:


> Interestingly, in the Asgard 3 thread people say the Modi MB is audibly superior to the MB card—therefore, more so should be the Bifrost 2. Granted, they’re probably talking about lossless sources.



I know, but I can’t imagine the Modi multibit is more than marginally better than the multibit card as they are built on the same tech (AD5547 multibit dac chip). As I understand it, he multibit card is more or less a Modi multibit on a card, minus the coax and optical inputs. The Modi does have the benefit of being enclosed in its own metal chassis though.

The Bifrost2 however is another beast altogether, being built around the sister chip that is in Gungnir multibit (AD5781BRUZ x4 in Gungnir and AD5781ARUZ x2 in Bifrost2). The difference to my ears between the multibit dac card and the Bifrost2 is clear, real, and immediately noticeable; and with Bifrost2 at $700 and Modi multibit at $250 it dang well should be..


----------



## theveterans

tafens said:


> The Bifrost2 however is another beast altogether, being built around the sister chip that is in Gungnir multibit (AD5781BRUZ x4 in Gungnir and AD5781ARUZ x2 in Bifrost2). The difference to my ears between the multibit dac card and the Bifrost2 is clear, real, and immediately noticeable; and with Bifrost2 at $700 and Modi multibit at $250 it dang well should be..



Agree. As you step up from Bifrost 2, you'll need to critically listen on a quiet room to find the clear "improvements" of Gungnir Multibit though the improvements gets slightly easier to detect when comparing the Bifrost 2 to the Yggdrasil A2. On Schiit's DAC lineup, I completely believe Bifrost 2 is where the diminishing returns actually start where the Gungnir and Yggdrasil are only viable if you need to "fine tune" your system IMO


----------



## adydula

So this tells me I need to critically listen to my system in a quiet room to find the clear improvements....so i am thinking these step up in improvements require I critically listen all the time in a quiet room or all these improvements will be lost or not found?

Its funny to me that we often equate improvements with more costly equipment...

That said I am a staunch Schitt supporter and love my Bifrost 1 dac, its my standard and I am not doubting their are improvements as you move up the food chain in Schitt Dacs....but like Jason the man has said many times "this may be all you need, really!!"...

A refreshing viewpoint from a vendor....

Most of our listening is done in the real world and most any of these dacs from Schitt will do just fine for most of us.

But my engineering background is looking at the Bifrost 2 with its improved design points and am lamenting on spending $600 for its improvements..

Alex


----------



## AlanU

tafens said:


> I know, but I can’t imagine the Modi multibit is more than marginally better than the multibit card as they are built on the same tech (AD5547 multibit dac chip). As I understand it, he multibit card is more or less a Modi multibit on a card, minus the coax and optical inputs. The Modi does have the benefit of being enclosed in its own metal chassis though.
> 
> The Bifrost2 however is another beast altogether, being built around the sister chip that is in Gungnir multibit (AD5781BRUZ x4 in Gungnir and AD5781ARUZ x2 in Bifrost2). The difference to my ears between the multibit dac card and the Bifrost2 is clear, real, and immediately noticeable; and with Bifrost2 at $700 and Modi multibit at $250 it dang well should be..



There is always a benefit in separates. The Bitfrost2 has isolation with no parasitic draw from an amplifier section from from it's power supply. In other words the Dac has it's own power supply and no interference of other components but the dac cct itself.  

My suggestion to Daryl is to move up the ladder and minimize "chasing".  The modular "upgrade swapping"  approach schiit takes moving up a tier will always benefit the customer.  Gunngir and Yggy will always be better regardless of the Bitfrost getting updates. The hierarchy is set in the lineup and there are a tonne a companies "better" as well. The fact is all of the schiit products will have the modular upgrade route. When Bitfrost gets an update...no worries the others will too.  

Pay now and cry now....you will be ahead of the buyers remorse mind games. In audio it's extremely difficult to remain happy and seldom reach the "end game" state. Bitfrost "3" will VERY unlikely NOT match  the current gungnir Gen5 a2. Purchasing the next Schiit upper tier level will minimize jumping marginally in a lateral move. The influx of Bitfrost gen1 in the pre owned market Buy/sell is a perfect example of small steps instead of jumping up a tier level and reduce the chances of quick short lived "upgraditis".  

I'm not following the general consensus here. I'm suggesting to think out of the box and giving a different view of the importance of source.  This is not going against the grain.....just raw reality in suggesting real "first world" problems in selecting a DAC in the audio hobby world   Save and go up a level and you will without a doubt be more happy.


----------



## AlanU (Dec 14, 2019)

adydula said:


> So this tells me I need to critically listen to my system in a quiet room to find the clear improvements....so i am thinking these step up in improvements require I critically listen all the time in a quiet room or all these improvements will be lost or not found?
> 
> Its funny to me that we often equate improvements with more costly equipment...
> 
> ...


 
Our perception is our reality. Personal ears will be the judge. So yes your comments of "most of us" applies to a degree.

I know so many "real world people" that care less of specs or the understanding of how things work. If it pleases their ears that's all that counts. However I know many that do not ever approach audio in a lateral manner. This is where my piece of advice is to move up the tier. "Typically" their will be significant improvements and not based on "cash outlay justification".

My comments are not really "Go big or go home" but it is a true reality. There is a difference in "settling" and "acceptance" of the upgrade offerings. Reality is that there will always better hardware and it must meet and satisfy  personal preference. However "settling" is a different topic all together in the baby steps of BF1 vs BF2. We are not discussing the level of "$$$$ and diminishing returns" the BF2 is not remotely in that category. This is the topic of "bang for buck" and not endgame gear.

The "this may be all you need, really!!" is a very wise choice of words. This is due to having a large lineup of products based on potential customer base. This is all due to $$ budgets and demands. Not everyone will accept BF2 but find the yggy affordable and meets their needs. This is about marketing and retail......


----------



## tafens

theveterans said:


> Agree. As you step up from Bifrost 2, you'll need to critically listen on a quiet room to find the clear "improvements" of Gungnir Multibit though the improvements gets slightly easier to detect when comparing the Bifrost 2 to the Yggdrasil A2. On Schiit's DAC lineup, I completely believe Bifrost 2 is where the diminishing returns actually start where the Gungnir and Yggdrasil are only viable if you need to "fine tune" your system IMO



I thought that might be the case, and that’s why I consider my Lyr3+Bifrost2 my end game..
(for now, never know what the future might bring..
Bifrost3? Lyr4? )


----------



## adydula

I would argue that the steps from B1 to B2 are not baby steps at all from a engineering design perspective and the price is basically the same...thats a really good thing for those that will upgrade or purchase...

Many real world folks probably dont frequent this website and probably wouldnt buy a seperate high dollar dac...but those that do frequent here care alot about the specs, listening experience etc....and rightly so.

IMO the B2 is an excellent improvement over the B1, but it may not be give you as good of a sonic improvement, especially if you have to critically listen in a quiet room.

Alex


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 14, 2019)

adydula said:


> I would argue that the steps from B1 to B2 are not baby steps at all from a engineering design perspective and the price is basically the same...thats a really good thing for those that will upgrade or purchase...
> 
> Many real world folks probably dont frequent this website and probably wouldnt buy a seperate high dollar dac...but those that do frequent here care alot about the specs, listening experience etc....and rightly so.
> 
> ...



Wait!!  You mean BF2 would sound EVEN BETTER in a quiet room???!!!  

That's it -- the wife, dogs, and kids are out on the street effective immediately!!!


----------



## theveterans

adydula said:


> I would argue that the steps from B1 to B2 are not baby steps at all from a engineering design perspective and the price is basically the same...thats a really good thing for those that will upgrade or purchase...
> 
> Many real world folks probably dont frequent this website and probably wouldnt buy a seperate high dollar dac...but those that do frequent here care alot about the specs, listening experience etc....and rightly so.
> 
> ...



I assure you that you won’t need to critically listen to hear the improvements from B1 MB to B2. Sounds like I’m hyping B2 a lot (this is a B2 thread anyway) but it should be clear upon listening to B2 in probably less than a minute IMO.


----------



## AlanU

adydula said:


> I would argue that the steps from B1 to B2 are not baby steps at all from a engineering design perspective and the price is basically the same...thats a really good thing for those that will upgrade or purchase...
> 
> Many real world folks probably dont frequent this website and probably wouldnt buy a seperate high dollar dac...but those that do frequent here care alot about the specs, listening experience etc....and rightly so.
> 
> ...


 
Due to the moderators request on staying on point. I will simply say the value of the BF2 appears to be improved in the engineering aspect. Good to see the R&D investment has not reflected in an increase in price. 

BF2, Bang for buck this is a great digital to analog converter for the money. Not to romanticize here...... the reality is moving up a tier warrants a reason. A person owning a YGGY will very likely not downgrade in the Schiit DAC lineup. A purchase is based on Budget. meeting one's standards/needs  and personal satisfaction. 

Unlikely a person buys blind. Audition is typically a given or taking advantage of the return/audition policy (at a cost). The beauty of audio is "specs wise" does not carry 100% of the weight due to other factors such as amplification and transducers (speakers/headphones) used in the chain of events.   

BF2 has great  common features and performs digital to analog conversion. Source is extremely important and it must make the customer's ears happy. We all have our perception and standards. We are only discussing 1 part of the puzzle in the music reproduction chain.


----------



## adydula

AlanU,

Agree....and its a good part of the chain!

Alex


----------



## sifulee (Dec 17, 2019)

I should be getting mine this Thursday and will post some impressions. I will be pairing the BF2 with my Jotunheim. I'm hoping for a warmer and more musical sound through my E-MU Teak headphones and Fiio FH7 IEMs. I find the balanced DAC in the Jotunheim to be overly bright. I also have some JBL LSR305 desktop speakers that will be connected to this so I'm very excited to say the least!


----------



## Ripper2860

Welcome.  Be prepared for the likelihood of spending hours with HPs on your head and a smile on your face.


----------



## ev666il

sifulee said:


> I should be getting mine this Thursday and will post some impressions. I will be pairing the BF2 with my Jotunheim.



I look forward to your impressions. I’m waiting for the black Bifrost 2 to be back in stock in Europe, and I was planning to pair it with a Jotunheim next year.

I assume you will be using the balanced inputs and balanced output on the Jot?


----------



## sifulee

ev666il said:


> I look forward to your impressions. I’m waiting for the black Bifrost 2 to be back in stock in Europe, and I was planning to pair it with a Jotunheim next year.
> 
> I assume you will be using the balanced inputs and balanced output on the Jot?



Yes I will be using the balanced inputs!  I'm probably not gonna do any listening for the first 24 hours or so. Best to let it get nice and toasty


----------



## sifulee

She has arrived 

Connected everything to make sure it works and my very first impressions is that Schiit Audio makes some really high quality products. It looks beautiful IMO and feels very solid. The remote it comes with is also very nice and has a good amount of weight to it. I was only able to have a brief listen and can confidently say it's a major upgrade over the balanced DAC in the Jotunheim. I will do some more listening this weekend!


----------



## Ripper2860

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Wes S

sifulee said:


> She has arrived
> 
> Connected everything to make sure it works and my very first impressions is that Schiit Audio makes some really high quality products. It looks beautiful IMO and feels very solid. The remote it comes with is also very nice and has a good amount of weight to it. I was only able to have a brief listen and can confidently say it's a major upgrade over the balanced DAC in the Jotunheim. I will do some more listening this weekend!


Schiit Audio is awesome and is one of my favorite companies in the business!  I spy an Impact Audio cable, hooked up to the Jotunheim.   I have one hooked up to my Alpha Prime and love it.  Really clean and cool looking system.


----------



## sifulee

Guys I had a chance to sit down and listen for a few hours now, please forgive me if I sound like a 12 year old little boy but I'm BLOWN away by what I'm hearing. Wowzers!!! 

Let me start by going over the gear I'm using. I have a Plex media server running windows 10 and stream all my music via my Tidal high fidelity subscription. All of my cables are from Schiit so I'm running the USB PYST to the BF2 and balanced XLR PYST to my Jotunheim. From there I use the XLR outs on to my LSR305s and balanced outs to my FH7s and E-MU Teaks. 

I don't have a lot of experience with HP amps/dacs so again please forgive my elementary impressions. So how do I put into words what I'm hearing?  It's like I'm putting on some VR goggles and all of a sudden I'm  no longer in my home but instead I'm right there! Everyone is playing right in front of me. Depending on what I'm listening to I might be in a studio, hall, pub, live acoustic concert but my point is it's like I'm really there. Like their all playing just for me. It was an intimate and at times very emotional experience. Yeah that's it! Before I was just listening to my music but now I'm experiencing it, meeting the musicians, seeing their instruments, feeling there emotion! 

I had the biggest smile on my face the whole time and I just couldn't stop shaking my head in disbelief but at the same time thinking about how beautiful it sounded. Everything was liquid smooth and blended together perfectly, full of body/depth. 

A quick note about the FH7s and LSR305. First the FH7s. Guys I'm not kidding you when I say they are very very very special IEMs. Either I got incredibly lucky with my sample but they have BLOWN ME AWAY. The sound they are producing with the BF2 is magical. My above impressions are while listening to them. They blow away my E-MU Teaks and my E-mu's sound amazing. I'm also extremely impressed with my LSR305 monitors. They are hands down best bookshelf speakers I've ever heard in my life. The best part about them is the imaging and sound stage. It's freaky had good they sound and I HIGHLY recommend them both! IMO both the FH7s and LSR305 are must owns.

Okay well that's about it, thanks everyone here in this sub!


----------



## theveterans

^ Have a Merry sleepless nights with your BF2


----------



## XERO1

sifulee said:


> Before I was just listening to my music, but now I'm experiencing it....


Well said.


----------



## schneller

So what's the verdict on the BF2 vs. Gumby? And do we have an ETA on Gumby 2?


----------



## kumar402

schneller said:


> So what's the verdict on the BF2 vs. Gumby? And do we have an ETA on Gumby 2?


There is no Gumby 2 AFAIK. Original Gungnir needs to be sent to Schiit in January timeframe if you wish to update the usb card. However if you use Coax or Spdif then no need to send it back


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 22, 2019)

Apologies if this has been asked and answered previously, but here goes ...

Are the Balanced XLR and Single-ended RCA outputs on BF2 both active at the same time?  Could I feed Bifrost 2 XLR out into a Ragnarok 1 into a balanced input and also feed the single-ended output for Bifrost 2 into my Valhalla 2 or some other device at the same time?

Thanks!!


----------



## kumar402

Ripper2860 said:


> Apologies if this has been asked and answered previously, but here goes ...
> 
> Are the Balanced XLR and Single-ended RCA outputs on BF2 both active at the same time?  Could I feed Bifrost 2 XLR out into a Ragnarok 1 into a balanced input and also feed the single-ended output for Bifrost 2 into my Valhalla 2 or some other device at the same time?
> 
> Thanks!!


Yes, Both are active at the same time


----------



## Ripper2860

Excellent!! Thanks for the quick reply!!


----------



## schneller

kumar402 said:


> There is no Gumby 2 AFAIK. Original Gungnir needs to be sent to Schiit in January timeframe if you wish to update the usb card. However if you use Coax or Spdif then no need to send it back



That's if you have a Gumby 1. I think it's reasonable to assume that we'll see a completely overhauled Gungnir with Unison and Autonomy, which will become the Gungnir 2. I have no proof of course.

What are sonic differences you all are hearing between Gumby and BF2?


----------



## Rensek

A collection of Bifrost 2 thoughts I shared with friends as I was listening to it for the first time. This was after I left it running for 9 ish hours while at a family gathering.

There is something to this DAC. As I write this blurb I'm only one song of semi serious listening in, with Spotify, and a heater running in the background....and it sounds different....But a good different.

So I'm thinking the schiit dacs I have already perform at pretty high cost to performance value. I'm not hearing any new parts, instruments, or sounds, but I am hearing LOTS of things differently.

On Do It Again by Steely Dan (Qobuz from now in my). I'm hearing more detail and texture in the parts that are there. The intro sounds particularly more detailed. Reminded me of the shaker test on the chesky ultimate test disc.

Fast guitar and bass guitar parts are coming through quite clearly.

You can almost see the fingers on the guitar moving 100 times faster then I can type. This is in reference to Gordon Lightfoot "If you could read my mind"

This DAC seems to combine what I like about the Bifrost 4490, and what I like about the modi multibit.I felt like bifrost 4490 was more detailed then mimby. But mimby had this fullness to it that the the 4490 didn't.

I'm not sure the phase switch button does anything for me. I'm listening to Fancy by Reba now. Sounds like the phase button adds and unwelcome fullness or harshness to Reba's voice. But it's really really subtle.

If I get a chance on Saturday or Sunday I'm going to A/B/C/D Sol, mimby, 4490 and bif 2. Going to use side 1 of Dire Straits Brothers in Arms.

From Now On, Super Tramp, Even In the Quietest Moments, is a piano heavy tune. Rolloff ( or is it decay?) on bifrost 2 seems more extended then Bifrost 4490. The piano on Bifrost 2 doesn't stop reverberating before the next notes are played. It seemed to hit silence on the 4490 before the next note was hit.

Early impressions seems like the bass might have a lot more definition and texture. Aside from the bass, it's almost like a new seasoning in a favorite dish that you can't quite put your finger on. It seems like it just has something more over the bifrost 4490, in terms of body and fullness, but as much detail ( or more). It seems like it has way more detail then the modi multibit, and a good deal more of that real, visceral, analogue fullness that modi multibit has. To my ears the Bifrost 2 sounds like it takes the best parts of Bifrost 4490 and modi multibit, and surpasses them.

Now I've only used the optical input so far. My system is Qobuz > Chromecast Audio > Bifrost 2 > OG Saga > Vidar > Zu Omen DW. I've been busy with the holidays and am typing this up from my phone while holding a sleeping baby at celebration 6 of 6. Unison will hopefully be tried out this weekend.

It's early yet and while many of the changes have been subtle, they still felt very powerful. This is likely an end game DAC for me. I can't imagine spending cash on a Gungnir Multibit for roughly twice the price. I don't think I'll need to flavor my sound with a different DAC.

This whole setup makes the Zu DW sound even more magical to me then they did before. The tone, separation, detail, depth, imaging, etc that I hear are pretty awesome. I love a good wall of sound. This setup sounds big to me. My triangle is about 8 x 8 x 8 ft. Speakers are about 10 inches from the back shelving/cabinets, 16 in from the side walls. Toed in to meet 1-2 feet behind my head. From what I hear in this setup the sounds just seems to emanate from the air. The Bifrost 2 definitely enhanced this feeling.

Apologies if this was long and rambling. Takes way longer to try and type out what a person hears, and moments to hear it.

Great first impressions. I'm no longer wondering what I'm missing.


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## Ripper2860 (Dec 30, 2019)

mvn1 said:


> I have a MB card in my Lyr3. I'd love to know peoples thoughts who have both the MB Lyr3 and Bifrost 2 - if there is a big difference?



I don't have experience with the MB DAC card, but the general consensus is the Modi MB stand-alone is better than the MB DAC option card.  I can tell you from experience that Bifrost 2 with Lyr 3 is a significant upgrade to a stand-alone Modi MB on a Lyr 3.  Bifrost is an exemplary pairing with Lyr 3.


----------



## Ripper2860

A Bifrost 2 question for you fine folks.  

I assume Bifrost 2 uses 'cheap-ass balanced (Mike's description), so does that mean it is OK to use a balanced / XLR to SE / RCA adapter to feed Bifrost 2 into a 2nd SE HP amp?  I'd like to have Bifrost 2 feed Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2.

Thanks


----------



## Baten

Ripper2860 said:


> A Bifrost 2 question for you fine folks.
> 
> I assume Bifrost 2 uses 'cheap-ass balanced (Mike's description), so does that mean it is OK to use a balanced / XLR to SE / RCA adapter to feed Bifrost 2 into a 2nd SE HP amp?  I'd like to have Bifrost 2 feed Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2.
> 
> Thanks


You should make sure it is an RCA to XLR cable in floating configuration. Then yes, sure. Otherwise it might cause a lot of additional distortion when going XLR to RCA.

Example of such a cable: https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-xlrfm-to-rca-adapter-cable-pin-3-floating


----------



## kumar402

Ripper2860 said:


> A Bifrost 2 question for you fine folks.
> 
> I assume Bifrost 2 uses 'cheap-ass balanced (Mike's description), so does that mean it is OK to use a balanced / XLR to SE / RCA adapter to feed Bifrost 2 into a 2nd SE HP amp?  I'd like to have Bifrost 2 feed Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2.
> 
> Thanks


Why not get a schiit SYS as switcher to have 2 RCA out to Lyr and Valhalla.


----------



## Ripper2860

I could and actually have a Sys in my 2-channel setup, but my desktop space config would just make placement a bit awkward. I'd like to connect BF2 to the HP amps directly if possible and not have to stack stuff on my Lyr 3.*   

* Cause then it would put it up against my computer monitor and make very difficult to reach between the monitor and stack to turn Lyr 3 on and off.  (Damn you, rear mounted power switch!!)  

FYI -- No way to stack on top of VH2 due to tubes and I ain't putting BF2 under that SFF pizza oven!!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 30, 2019)

Baten said:


> You should make sure it is an RCA to XLR cable in floating configuration. Then yes, sure. Otherwise it might cause a lot of additional distortion when going XLR to RCA.
> 
> Example of such a cable: https://benchmarkmedia.com/products/benchmark-xlrfm-to-rca-adapter-cable-pin-3-floating



A bit of a balanced/XLR noob, so if you don't mind -- will this work?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GXF132--hosa-gxf-132-xlr-female-to-rca-female-adapter


----------



## MarkF786

Ripper2860 said:


> A Bifrost 2 question for you fine folks.
> 
> I assume Bifrost 2 uses 'cheap-ass balanced (Mike's description), so does that mean it is OK to use a balanced / XLR to SE / RCA adapter to feed Bifrost 2 into a 2nd SE HP amp?  I'd like to have Bifrost 2 feed Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2.
> 
> Thanks



With my old Bifrost MB, I was looking for a way to connect it to two headphone amps (before the Sys and Saga were released) and came across a statement from Jason Stoddard that using a Y splitter worked fine without any degradation in sound.  I then bought the Audioquest RCA splitters (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MFRW0) and indeed it introduced no audible difference (which is easy to tell by just unplugging the 2nd amp).

Later, I bough the Saga S, mainly for the remote volume control, which stacks nicely with the other Schiit components I have (Bifrost MB (now Bifrost 2), Jotunheim, Lyr 3, and Valhalla 2). I  just wish where was a way to stack the Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2, so instead I swap them from time to time.


----------



## Dana Reed

MarkF786 said:


> With my old Bifrost MB, I was looking for a way to connect it to two headphone amps (before the Sys and Saga were released) and came across a statement from Jason Stoddard that using a Y splitter worked fine without any degradation in sound.  I then bought the Audioquest RCA splitters (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MFRW0) and indeed it introduced no audible difference (which is easy to tell by just unplugging the 2nd amp).
> 
> Later, I bough the Saga S, mainly for the remote volume control, which stacks nicely with the other Schiit components I have (Bifrost MB (now Bifrost 2), Jotunheim, Lyr 3, and Valhalla 2). I  just wish where was a way to stack the Lyr 3 and Valhalla 2, so instead I swap them from time to time.


Can confirm the audioquest splitters work great with any of the amps/preamps I’ve used them with.
The only time I’ve noted an issue with splitting was when I split the Gumby XLR output between Jotunheim and Freya.  If Freya was active, I would notice a significant drop in output from the Jotunheim.  I assume due to impedance differences.
Using the same XLR splitter to feed a pair of Vidars and a sub from the Freya showed no degradation.


----------



## Baten

Ripper2860 said:


> A bit of a balanced/XLR noob, so if you don't mind -- will this work?
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GXF132--hosa-gxf-132-xlr-female-to-rca-female-adapter


It says pin 1 & 3 are tied together :/


----------



## Alcophone

Dana Reed said:


> Can confirm the audioquest splitters work great with any of the amps/preamps I’ve used them with.


Same. Used them for A/B comparisons and to feed both a power amp and a subwoofer.
They even work with digital audio in a pinch. I've fed four DACs at the same time this way just for kicks (Coax out > Splitter > 2x Splitter > 4x DAC).

When you're not too concerned about the cables and the target devices are close together, the Kabeldirekt RCA Y cables also work well.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> I don't have experience with the MB DAC card, but the general consensus is the Modi MB stand-alone is better than the MB DAC option card.  I can tell you from experience that Bifrost 2 with Lyr 3 is a significant upgrade to a stand-alone Modi MB on a Lyr 3.  Bifrost is an exemplary pairing with Lyr 3.



I have the multibit DAC card and also the Bifrost2.
In my ears the Bifrost2 is way better than the card, in just about every regard. The card may be more smooth sounding in a way that some might like, but I’d write that up to it being less detailed.

Key points: Bifrost2 has a larger soundstage and greater sense of space, better definition/detail and separation, more clarity; also, while the multibit card in some busy passages can sound congested (constipated? ), the BF2 does not.


----------



## Ripper2860

Baten said:


> It says pin 1 & 3 are tied together :/



OK.  So by "floating" one means 2 and 3 NOT tied then.  

I'll just go with the AQ RCA splitters.  No fuss.  No muss.


----------



## tincanear (Dec 31, 2019)

Ripper2860 said:


> A bit of a balanced/XLR noob, so if you don't mind -- will this work?
> 
> https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GXF132--hosa-gxf-132-xlr-female-to-rca-female-adapter



tying 1 and 3 together bad for this application.

instead of worrying about how specific xlr to rca adapters are wired, just use an rca 'y' splitter


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 31, 2019)

Yeah -- in a prior post I stated that I'll be going with AQ RCA splitters.  Always been paranoid about using splitters, but it seems to have been unfounded.


----------



## tincanear

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah -- in a prior post I stared that I'll be going with AQ RCA splitters.  Always been paranoid about using splitters, but it seems to have been unfounded.



sorry, I replied when seeing your post, instead of reading the entire thread.


----------



## Ripper2860

No problem.  I appreciate your willingness to help me find a solution!!  Happy New Year!!!


----------



## Baten

Ripper2860 said:


> No problem.  I appreciate your willingness to help me find a solution!!  Happy New Year!!!


Happy new year, guys


----------



## craymore (Jan 1, 2020)

Hi Guys ( and happy new year btw ! )  

I previously had a Biforst 1 ( Multibit ) and recently purchased a Bifrost 2 : here are my personal thoughts on this new DAC

*+ pros
*

Less harsh on the trebbles compared to the Bimby
Less fatigue over listening time
XLR connections ( I now here no buzzing noise whatsoever when maxing out the volume on my Jotunheim, whereas it was the case when using RCA )
New chassis ( aluminimum is now polished, engraving is far more readable )
Unison USB ( had a Gen 2 board in my Bimby )
Modular design, swappable cards for future upgrades
*+ cons
*

The remote feels unpleasant to the touch ( yurk ! ). I actually prefer to touch the chassis of the DAC -- since it has that nice polished finish -- rather the remote with this raw aluminium case
Schiit apparently switched to surface-mounted LEDs for the Bifrost 2 ( I assume this was done to simplify the assembly process as the previous design required the LEDS terminals to be bent manually ), but this results in an awful backlight bleeding ( especially in darker rooms ), almost like there's a second LED lit up along with the main one. Same goes for the phase invert indicator : light is coming out of the remote sensor when it's on ! They could have applied some sort of matte varnish on the light rails in order to prevent that ..

Great DAC overall, fair quality / price ratio


----------



## JerryLeeds

Here is cheap 3 way RCA switch box .. in case anyone is interested

https://www.amazon.com/rolls-SS32-3...5?keywords=rolls+switch&qid=1577888205&sr=8-5


----------



## MarkF786

craymore said:


> The remote feels unpleasant to the touch ( yurk ! ). I actually prefer to touch the chassis of the DAC -- since it has that nice polished finish -- rather the remote with this raw aluminium case.



I agree about the remote.  I also have a Saga S and it's remote is essentially the same, except the metal looks slightly different and feels much nicer.


----------



## adydula

Been using the RCAY splitters off the Bifrost 1 here for many months. The ones Jason Stoddard mentioned that he uses etc....no discernable difference in outout that I have ever heard.

Alex


----------



## adydula

I think  paid about 50 cents apiece for these!! Really High Tech!!


----------



## adydula

Just be careful with the weight of the cables!!

Alex


----------



## nasty nate

Hi All, and Happy New Year 

Can someone who has both the modi 3 (or similar) and the Bifrost 2 help me understand some of the differences I can expect? I've been following this thread for months now and have seen comparisons like this but I wanted some second opinions. I've read that the Unison USB is a great improvement over the other standards, especially since I'll be using entirely USB as my source (MacBook Pro and Amazon HD Music). 

For reference, I use the Asgard 2 as my amp, and I have a pair of HD600s that I love. 

Would the Bifrost 2 be a good investment or should I look to upgrade the amp / headphones first if I am looking for improvement? 

Any and all impressions / recommendations would be greatly appreciated! 

-Nate


----------



## kumar402

nasty nate said:


> Hi All, and Happy New Year
> 
> Can someone who has both the modi 3 (or similar) and the Bifrost 2 help me understand some of the differences I can expect? I've been following this thread for months now and have seen comparisons like this but I wanted some second opinions. I've read that the Unison USB is a great improvement over the other standards, especially since I'll be using entirely USB as my source (MacBook Pro and Amazon HD Music).
> 
> ...


HD6X0 series scale like crazy with good amp and DAC and are good enough to benefit from amp and DAC upgrade. If you are using DS DAC then moving to Multibit DAC will bring a lot of change in sound signature for good. Deep stage, dense vocals and non fatiguing treble are key highlights. You can go to Lyr 3 with Bifrost without upgrading your headphone.


----------



## nasty nate

kumar402 said:


> HD6X0 series scale like crazy with good amp and DAC and are good enough to benefit from amp and DAC upgrade. If you are using DS DAC then moving to Multibit DAC will bring a lot of change in sound signature for good. Deep stage, dense vocals and non fatiguing treble are key highlights. You can go to Lyr 3 with Bifrost without upgrading your headphone.



Lyr 3 or the Valhalla were my next potential upgrades; I've read that the HD600s do well with a set of tubes. Thank you for the input! I think Bifrost 2 is the way to go for now.


----------



## kumar402

nasty nate said:


> Lyr 3 or the Valhalla were my next potential upgrades; I've read that the HD600s do well with a set of tubes. Thank you for the input! I think Bifrost 2 is the way to go for now.


If you have 600 then go with Lyr3. It tones down the upper mid and lower treble of 600. Don't use Valhalla2 with 600.


----------



## Dana Reed

kumar402 said:


> If you have 600 then go with Lyr3. It tones down the upper mid and lower treble of 600. Don't use Valhalla2 with 600.


What about the 6xx?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 2, 2020)

I use the HD6XX with Valhalla 2 and in my opinion it is an excellent pairing. It also sounds quite nice with Lyr 3.

If you cannot afford Lyr 3, I do not think you will be unhappy with a VH2 and HD6XX pairing.


----------



## kumar402

Ripper2860 said:


> I use the HD6XX with Valhalla 2 and in my opinion it is an excellent pairing. It also sounds quite nice with Lyr 3.
> 
> If you cannot afford Lyr 3, I do not think you will be unhappy with a VH2 and HD600 pairing.


I didn’t like 600 with Valhalla2 as I found it too bright for my taste. 650 doesn’t have the peak at upper mid and lower treble like 600 so it may pair well with Valhalla. Also during my time with V2 and 600 I didn’t have NOS or Multibit DAC which would have helped. I rolled in some cheap JJ Gold pin in Valhalla but that brightness didn’t go away.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 2, 2020)

Throw in a pair of 12A*7 adapters and Brimar CV4033s and it is SUBLIME!

Oops!  I caught a typo in my response.  I meant one won't be disappointed with VH2 and HD6XX.  I have no experience with the HD600.

Corrected


----------



## Wes S (Jan 3, 2020)

kumar402 said:


> I didn’t like 600 with Valhalla2 as I found it too bright for my taste. 650 doesn’t have the peak at upper mid and lower treble like 600 so it may pair well with Valhalla. Also during my time with V2 and 600 I didn’t have NOS or Multibit DAC which would have helped. I rolled in some cheap JJ Gold pin in Valhalla but that brightness didn’t go away.


Valhalla 2 and Modi Multibit with good NOS warm tubes sounds killer with both HD600 and HD650.  This was my first setup, and I enjoyed the heck out of it, with both HD’s.  Tube rolling, something like a WE396a with adapters completely transforms the performance of the V2.  Sorry man, but the JJ’s are terrible tubes if you ask me.


----------



## Alexnova

Valhalla + HD650 FTW! Superb pairing for cheap. Tubes are a better way to go with Senns than solid state.


----------



## adydula (Jan 3, 2020)

One of the best HD600 pairings I have heard is with the Vahalla2 and these cans....the other is with a BH Crack with CCS mod.

I also played with the output tubes and didnt find any discernable difference with changing tubes....even from the stockers...

Maybe its my ears, but it was and still is superb...

Alex


----------



## Dana Reed

Ripper2860 said:


> I use the HD6XX with Valhalla 2 and in my opinion it is an excellent pairing. It also sounds quite nice with Lyr 3.
> 
> If you cannot afford Lyr 3, I do not think you will be unhappy with a VH2 and HD6XX pairing.


If I already have a Lyr2, would the Lyr3 or VH2 be much of an upgrade for T1.2 and HD6xx?  I originally got the Lyr2 as a compromise for both High Impedance dynamics and planars. But lately, I've been favoring the Jot for planars.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 3, 2020)

I've never owned or heard a Lyr 2 so I'll defer to someone that has and can possibly compare/contrast against Lyr 3 and VH2. While both Lyr 3 and VH2 sound fabulous with the HD6XX, how much better they are compared to Lyr 2 is the big question.

** My personal experience is that I like VH2 a tiny-bit better with the HD6XX.  Maybe it's the fact that VH2 is an OTL tube amp (not hybrid) and pure Class A.  It's not a night and day diff, but to me it is just a more relaxed and enjoyable sound with HD6XX and VH2.  One that mysteriously draws me deeper into the music.


----------



## adydula

Interesting that you have a Lyr 3 and V2 and prefer the 600's with the V2.

The Lyr3 is so much a different design compared to Lyr2 for sure...just read the description at Schitt's site.

I know this is a Bifrost2 thread and dont want to derail this discussing amps!

I am seriously debating on buying the Bifrost 2 to replace my Bifrost 1 which has the new Unison USB board in it (thanks to Jason!, I got a beta board to try). 
So the dilemma here is it worth the $599 for the change!

Alex


----------



## Dana Reed

adydula said:


> Interesting that you have a Lyr 3 and V2 and prefer the 600's with the V2.
> 
> The Lyr3 is so much a different design compared to Lyr2 for sure...just read the description at Schitt's site.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't want to go on about amps, I could ask that elsewhere.  I think I was only looking at this forum, since I had bought a Gungnir Multibit not too long before Bifrost 2 came out.  Of course it's much cheaper than the Gumby, but no reason for me to sidegrade since desk space and a remote aren't an issue for the DAC I already have.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 3, 2020)

adydula said:


> Interesting that you have a Lyr 3 and V2 and prefer the 600's with the V2.



Just for clarification, it's the HD6XX headphones not the HD600s.  I have zero experience with the HD600s.


Anyhow -- both VH2 and Lyr 3 ROCK with Bifrost 2.  While I cannot compare to Gumby, I can say that it is a very noticeable upgrade to my Cambridge Audio DacMagic, Schiit Modi Multibit, and Topping D50 DACs.


----------



## Alexnova

Ripper2860 said:


> ** My personal experience is that I like VH2 a tiny-bit better with the HD6XX.  Maybe it's the fact that VH2 is an OTL tube (not hybrid) and Class A.  It's not a night and day diff, but to me it is just a more relaxed and enjoyable sound with VH2.  One that mysteriously draws me deeper into the music.



Completely agree. There's a magical synergy with HD650 and Valhalla 2. It absorbs me in the music.


----------



## rkw

Dana Reed said:


> If I already have a Lyr2, would the Lyr3 or VH2 be much of an upgrade for T1.2 and HD6xx?  I originally got the Lyr2 as a compromise for both High Impedance dynamics and planars. But lately, I've been favoring the Jot for planars.


Jot also pairs well with HD6XX/HD650, which are on the warm side and balanced by the neutral clarity of the Jot, although this may not be your first choice if you prefer tube sound. The combination is further enhanced with a balanced cable.


----------



## MarkF786

Owning the Jotunheim, Valhalla 2, and Lyr 3 (purchased in that order), I think people make a bigger deal about the differences than really exist.

When I got the Lyr 3, I decided to do a blind comparison of it with the Jotunheim, with them volume matched using a multimeter.  Somewhat surprisingly, I couldn't hear any discernible difference.  Next, I thought I'd compare the Lyr 3 to the Valhalla 2 in a blind test - surely I'd hear a difference - but again couldn't.  BTW, I was using the HD800S and HD650.

I still own all three and switch between them based on subjective taste, even believing they sound different at times - though I remain a bit grounded in reality by my prior blind comparisons.

Since getting the Bifrost 2, I haven't yet done a blind comparison to the Bifrost MB.  I'm almost afraid to since I can guess the likely results.


----------



## Dana Reed

MarkF786 said:


> Owning the Jotunheim, Valhalla 2, and Lyr 3 (purchased in that order), I think people make a bigger deal about the differences than really exist.
> 
> When I got the Lyr 3, I decided to do a blind comparison of it with the Jotunheim, with them volume matched using a multimeter.  Somewhat surprisingly, I couldn't hear any discernible difference.  Next, I thought I'd compare the Lyr 3 to the Valhalla 2 in a blind test - surely I'd hear a difference - but again couldn't.  BTW, I was using the HD800S and HD650.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I’ve tried some blind testing using the Jot, feeding it with the Bifrost Multibit on SE and Gungnir Multibit on XLR.  With “normal” headphones and listening conditions, I couldn’t discern.  If I crank up the volume with no input, of course i can hear noise floor differences with IEMs, and with the the HE6SE, it seems like getting the extra input voltage from balanced seems to help.  
But they’re both really good, and the Modi 3 as my third option is also really nice.


----------



## Ripper2860

At his level of game, it's small nuances.  You're not gonna find a dramatic diff between any of them unless one is defective.


----------



## bboris77

To be fair, Jason has been saying from the beginning that transducers are the most important, then amps then dacs. That is why I am now down to only Modi 3 and Magni 3+, having sold my Bifrost Multibit and Lyr 3.  I used the money to finance my purchase of the HD800s.

Sonically, the Modi 3/ Magni 3+ combo is very difficult to beat. I think that the main advantage to the bigger units is the warranty, some functionality (remote and balanced out on the Bifrost 2) and that great potentiometer on their amps. There is also the form factor which I do miss - the solidity that those units possess is wonderful and it is nice not to have wall warts. The flip side is that I had to put Hum-X on any 3-prong amp I have owned to avoid ground loops from my PC. Wall-wart units do not have the ground plug, so they automatically avoid ground loops.


----------



## adydula

I agree with your assesment....but many will disagree....the original Magni 3 is a great little amp! For the price of admission thats a wonderful setup and spending your money on headphones is indeed the place to spend it!!

enjoy the music!
Alex


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 4, 2020)

I hardily agree.  The Focal Utopias on my Samsung Galaxy S9+ are the bom-diggity!!!  

(I couldn't resist)

Ok seriously, I agree to the extent that the HPs are the biggest contributor to a good sound (assuming a reasonable and capable amp pairing -- unlike my example).  I also firmly believe that once you have the perfect set of HPs with the sound signature you feel is sublime, that upgrading amp and source can bring out even more of that goodness and even reveal goodness you didn't know existed.  If one can only do one, then by all means focus on the HPs, however if one is fortunate enough to be able to own their 'end game' HPs AND scale the gear up to the HPs fullest capabilities -- why not?


----------



## bboris77

Ripper2860 said:


> I hardily agree.  The Focal Utopias on my Samsung Galaxy S9+ are the bom-diggity!!!
> 
> (I couldn't resist)
> 
> Ok seriously, I agree to the extent that the HPs are the biggest contributor to a good sound (assuming a reasonable and capable amp pairing -- unlike my example).  I also firmly believe that once you have the perfect set of HPs with the sound signature you feel is sublime, that upgrading amp and source can bring out even more of that goodness and even reveal goodness you didn't know existed.  If one can only do one, then by all means focus on the HPs, hoever if one is fortunate enough to be able to own their 'end game' HPs AND scale the gear up to the HPs fullest capabilities -- why not?



Well that is the thing, a lot of people EQ their headphones instead of finding an amp with a good synergy. I have tried using all kinds of software-based EQ and it always sounds fake and metallic to me. In terms of amps, I find that the Magni 3+ is a great compromise between a traditional solid state sound (clean, fast, good transients, neutral) and a slight hint of tube amp quality (3D soundstage, holographic, slightly wet). I loved my Lyr 3 which the Magni 3+ reminds me of - the Lyr 3 had even more emphasized low end and thump. The issue that I have with tube amps is that their sound changes depending on the tube - this way you are never truly sure if the sound you are getting is what the designer really intended. The only thing I may try in future would be something like the Asgard 3 which appears to be similar to the Magni 3+, just a little more tubey.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 3, 2020)

Ah, yes.  Tubes and their affect on the intended sound.  Not to mention the cursed affliction called  TUBE ROLLING!!

_"No -- can't just can't stop at that 100th tube, the next one may be the one that blows them all away.  Just one more.  That's it.  Yeah -- then I'll stop!!"  _

Both a Curse and a Blessing I suppose depending on ones objective when listening to music.

I don't disagree with you -- just playing devil's advocate.  I'll be getting a Ragnarok v1 soon and will delve back into Solid State for HPs and Speakers on my 2-channel rig.  I like tubes, but I'm not a SS bigot. With tubes, I'm focused on getting the sound to how I like it -- artist be damned!!    (J/K)

Magni 3 got me started on this and now I can't stop...




** Sorry, I keep forgetting that this is the Bifrost 2 thread and not amps or tubes vs SS.


----------



## bboris77

To go back to the original topic - I am considering getting the Bifrost 2 but it is hard to drop $599 (I owned the Bimby before so I am eligible for that price) without hearing it first and knowing what exactly it improves upon compared to the amazing Modi 3. I had the Bifrost Multibit and the Modi 3 for almost 3 months and I really compared them. While I could hear the difference between them it was not like one was superior to another, just different.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 6, 2020)

I know one of the members here, @Rensek has a Modi 3 and just recently purchased a Bifrost 2.  He is always willing to help and is a straight shooter.  If you do not get a post here, you may want to reach out to him via PM.  Good luck with your journey.


----------



## nasty nate

Can anyone attest to the use of Bifrost 2 with a MacBook Pro? I see on the website: "From 10.10 on up, Macs are good to go " but then I also read "Sometimes you’ll run into power management problems that will require you to turn off App Nap."

What are the implications of turning off App Nap? Is it a global setting, and will it affect the performance of other programs / root processes? I've never had to change this setting, nor have I heard of it before, it looks like a developer runtime option. From the developer website:  "App Nap is automatic in OS X"


----------



## Rensek (Jan 3, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> I use the HD6XX with Valhalla 2 and in my opinion it is an excellent pairing. It also sounds quite nice with Lyr 3.
> 
> If you cannot afford Lyr 3, I do not think you will be unhappy with a VH2 and HD6XX pairing.



I received an Asgard 2 last week. It is very revealing when paired with better DACS.



bboris77 said:


> To go back to the original topic - I am considering getting the Bifrost 2 but it is hard to drop $599 (I owned the Bimby before so I am eligible for that price) without hearing it first and knowing what exactly it improves upon compared to the amazing Modi 3. I had the Bifrost Multibit and the Modi 3 for almost 3 months and I really compared them. While I could hear the difference between them it was not like one was superior to another, just different.



I will try and give you a direct comparison this weekend. But life gets busy so it may not happen until next work week.. I listen to music about 4 hours a day at work. When the Vikings lose it on Sunday that will climb to 9 hours a day of music. ( I listen to a ton of KFAN during the NFL season)

I did an A B C comparison of modi 3, modi Multibit and Bifrost 4490 back in September or October and posted about it on the main Schiit thread.

I can't recall all of the specifics on that post but I remember modi 3 didn't really best the others in any area.

I am hearing slightly more subtle detail with Bifrost 2 put into my Asgard 2 & Sennheiser chain then I am in my chain of Bifrost 2, Saga, Vidar, Zu Omen DW.

Not sure yet if that is room related or having to do with the nature of HP vs speakers, or a gear deal.

I will say this. Don't expect earth shattering changes. The changes are subtle, but to me they are real and powerful and give more depth, realism, and soul to the music then what you got before. I can hear deeper into the music with bifrost 2 then I could before. The background & supporting sounds and vocals get more separated and defined by Bifrost 2.

I have also been using optical almost exclusively. I just determined tonight that the USB output of my fire HD 10 tablet is far superior to that of the USB output on my pixel 2 phone. I am in the process of getting a PC setup to test unison, but that will be a ways out yet...

I will give an example that I shared with @Ripper2860

On the track Moondance, on the Van Morrison album Moondance, there is a part starting about 2:00 minutes in that revealed to me the detail capabilities of Bifrost 2. Left channel. Something squeaky, intermittent between 2:00 and about 2:23, with the loudest portion coming at 2:21-2:22

I thought it was a flute or sax valve being fluttered and squeaky, Ripper thought it was fingers grazing a guitar string.

At any rate this example is very deep into the blackness of the track. I couldn't hear it using my pixel phone and unison, only via optical. Ripper heard it via USB, unison, Bifrost 2, Lyr 3.

I can hear this better with HPs then with my home or office 2ch but it's there. It's much less pronounced and harder to hear with modi multibit. With modi multibit I could only hear a small portion of it at the 2:21-2:22 mark.

So, long story longer, everything matters. Output device type, streaming service vs CD vs DVD vs tv etc. Will you feel Bifrost 2 is enough of an improvement to be worth it? Tough to say. What kind of interconnects are you using? I had some cheap assed ones from Amazon but they were like a few 30 gauge strands wrapped in 8 gauge vinyl so they appeared thick. A few months ago, I found some 75 ohm RG6 ICs (solid 18 ga copper) online for dirt cheap. They made a massive improvement to the details I was able to hear via modi 3, modi Multibit, Bifrost 4490. I use Qobuz almost exclusively right now. 

Anyway Bifrost 2 is a nice upgrade, performance wise to schiits lesser offerings. Its probably end game for me as I feel like I'm at the beginning of diminishing returns at this level. I'm not comfortable at this stage in life spending more on a DAC to get miniscule changes. This is a selling point from my point of view.... Diminishing returns start at 599 if spent coin on a OG Bifrost? Yes please! Ripper has 2 for a reason. I likely will as well in a year or two.


----------



## rkw

nasty nate said:


> Can anyone attest to the use of Bifrost 2 with a MacBook Pro? I see on the website: "From 10.10 on up, Macs are good to go " but then I also read "Sometimes you’ll run into power management problems that will require you to turn off App Nap."
> 
> What are the implications of turning off App Nap? Is it a global setting, and will it affect the performance of other programs / root processes? I've never had to change this setting, nor have I heard of it before, it looks like a developer runtime option. From the developer website:  "App Nap is automatic in OS X"


Google returned this: https://www.lifewire.com/control-how-mac-applications-use-app-nap-2260788


----------



## nasty nate (Jan 3, 2020)

rkw said:


> Google returned this: https://www.lifewire.com/control-how-mac-applications-use-app-nap-2260788



Yea I saw that, the problem is that the Bifrost 2 is not an application. The Modi 3 is represented in Audio MIDI, but only as an audio device, I don't believe the term application applies here.

Thank you for the help, I really do appreciate it.


----------



## Dana Reed

Rensek said:


> When the Vikings lose it on Sunday


Come on, have a little faith!  They could lose anytime between this weekend and the NFC championship.  I remember 87-88 when they beat both the Saints and Niners on the road, before blowing it the week after.  In fact I recall many NFC championship games they have choked in.


----------



## Rensek

Dana Reed said:


> Come on, have a little faith!  They could lose anytime between this weekend and the NFC championship.  I remember 87-88 when they beat both the Saints and Niners on the road, before blowing it the week after.  In fact I recall many NFC championship games they have choked in.



I am the prototypical vikes fan. I'd rather expect a loss, be resigned to our fate and  then be elated when they win, then expect a win and have my heart ripped out when they choke. Minneapolis Miracle was pure elation. Going from no expectations to happy is the only way to survive as a vikes fan.

Thank God for PJ Fleck. I should send that guy a Schiit Stack. BIFROST 2 IS ELITE!! Ski-U-Mah, Row the Boat, Go Gophers.


----------



## Dana Reed

Rensek said:


> I am the prototypical vikes fan. I'd rather expect a loss, be resigned to our fate and  then be elated when they win, then expect a win and have my heart ripped out when they choke. Minneapolis Miracle was pure elation. Going from no expectations to happy is the only way to survive as a vikes fan.
> 
> Thank God for PJ Fleck. I should send that guy a Schiit Stack. BIFROST 2 IS ELITE!! Ski-U-Mah, Row the Boat, Go Gophers.


Heart was ripped out when Darrin Nelson dropped it on the goal line, when Gary Anderson missed the kick, when Favre threw the pick after getting ripped off by the refs all day.  Then the tanks vs the Giants and Eagles.  I may have missed some


----------



## rkw

nasty nate said:


> Yea I saw that, the problem is that the Bifrost 2 is not an application. The Modi 3 is represented in Audio MIDI, but only as an audio device, I don't believe the term application applies here.


I think they mean your music player application. However, the statement is certainly vague and I don't see App Nap implemented for any of the music applications I use. It would be best to contact Schiit for clarification.


----------



## tafens

nasty nate said:


> Can anyone attest to the use of Bifrost 2 with a MacBook Pro? I see on the website: "From 10.10 on up, Macs are good to go " but then I also read "Sometimes you’ll run into power management problems that will require you to turn off App Nap."
> 
> What are the implications of turning off App Nap? Is it a global setting, and will it affect the performance of other programs / root processes? I've never had to change this setting, nor have I heard of it before, it looks like a developer runtime option. From the developer website:  "App Nap is automatic in OS X"



I have a MacBook Pro and have used it with Modi2Uber, Modi Multibit and now Bifrost2 without issue. Never looked into or changed settings regarding AppNap.


----------



## craymore

MarkF786 said:


> Since getting the Bifrost 2, I haven't yet done a blind comparison to the Bifrost MB.  I'm almost afraid to since I can guess the likely results.



While I am certainly not a professional audiophile, I was immediately able to spot the differences between the Bifrost 1 MB and the Bifrost 2

*NB* : My setup includes the same amp. ( Jotunheim )  & headphones ( Fostex TH-X00 ), so the differences were solely due to the DAC ( if you exclude the fact that the Bifrost 2 is connected via XLR, and the Bifrost 1 was connected via RCA )

Among other differences, the Bifrost 2 sounds less harsh on the trebbles and is less prone to induce listening fatigue over time



bboris77 said:


> To go back to the original topic - I am considering getting the Bifrost 2 but it is hard to drop $599 (I owned the Bimby before so I am eligible for that price) without hearing it first



Can't say how the Modi 3 compares to the Bifrost 2 since I've never owned it nor heard it, but as for the Bifrost 2 upgrade, I mostly did it for the following aspects :


XLR connections ( no background / buzzing noise whatsoever , of course only useful if you got an XLR amp as well )
Unison USB


----------



## nasty nate

tafens said:


> I have a MacBook Pro and have used it with Modi2Uber, Modi Multibit and now Bifrost2 without issue. Never looked into or changed settings regarding AppNap.



That's very good to hear!  I assumed that would be the case considering its full UAC2 compliance. Thank you for the input.


----------



## tafens

MarkF786 said:


> Since getting the Bifrost 2, I haven't yet done a blind comparison to the Bifrost MB. I'm almost afraid to since I can guess the likely results.





craymore said:


> While I am certainly not a professional audiophile, I was immediately able to spot the differences between the Bifrost 1 MB and the Bifrost 2



My experience going from multibit DAC card to Bifrost2 is likewise, the difference was immediately noticeable to me (and in favour of the Bifrost2).


----------



## adydula (Jan 8, 2020)

Ok going to take the plunge!!

Sold my T1's and my Bifrost 1 is up for sale....so hopefully by the end of the month !!

"Ripper2860" this had better be good!!

:>)

Alex


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 8, 2020)

I am not responsible for any posts made after drinking excessively.



Seriously -- I think you will be quite happy.  Heck, Jason Stoddard stated in another post he preferred BF2 over YGGY!!   If that is not a resounding endorsement, then what is?


----------



## adydula

Well you cant take it with you and I am 70 years young...

:>)


----------



## Rensek (Jan 8, 2020)

Bifrost 2 is good enough with relation to the rest of my gear, as to cause my non audiophile wife to message me at work with a list of songs she wants to listen to with the system.......


----------



## adydula

Will mate it with my new THX AAA 887 and use the balanced outs etc...should work very well from what I have read etc...Jason's the "man" AND Mike as well!!

Alex


----------



## Rensek

adydula said:


> Will mate it with my new THX AAA 887 and use the balanced outs etc...should work very well from what I have read etc...Jason's the "man" AND Mike as well!!
> 
> Alex



Sounds like you will have a nice mix of music with lots of detail and weight/fullness


----------



## adydula

My B1 with a beta Unison board (thanks to Jason) works soooo very well....and with this new amp its really close to my TOTL system....absolutely wonderful.
Hoping the B2 will indeed be an upgrade somewhat sonically.


----------



## HeadStrong

ev666il said:


> Pulled the trigger on a black Bifrost 2. Hopefully it'll be here by next weekend along with a pair of PYST RCA to hook it up with my Asgard 3.
> 
> Time to upgrade to Windows 10, then...


PYST cables should be renamed to GYST (Get Your Schiit Together).  You get the gist of it...


----------



## tafens

adydula said:


> My B1 with a beta Unison board (thanks to Jason) works soooo very well....and with this new amp its really close to my TOTL system....absolutely wonderful.
> Hoping the B2 will indeed be an upgrade somewhat sonically.



It would be very interesting to hear how you would
compare Bifrost1 with Unison and Bifrost2 when you get it. All comparisons so far leaves the question of how much of the difference is due to Unison and how much is the dacs themselves.


----------



## Rensek (Jan 8, 2020)

tafens said:


> It would be very interesting to hear how you would
> compare Bifrost1 with Unison and Bifrost2 when you get it. All comparisons so far leaves the question of how much of the difference is due to Unison and how much is the dacs themselves.



All of my limited comparisons the past two weeks are toslink DAC vs DAC. I've only used Unison for a few songs so far.

My OG Bifrost 4490 doesn't have a USB card in it at all


----------



## adydula

If my B1 MB doenst sell before I get the B2 I will let you know any differences that I can discern for sure!

Alex


----------



## Rensek (Jan 8, 2020)

adydula said:


> If my B1 MB doenst sell before I get the B2 I will let you know any differences that I can discern for sure!
> 
> Alex



Oh you are doing that wrong.  Get a SYS sent over with the Bifrost 2. Don't sell the Bifrost 1 yet and A/B to your hearts content. I'm really wishing I had a SYS for my work desk. 

If only I had told myself this when I ordered Bifrost 2 before Christmas.


----------



## adydula

Rensek...

Are u saying the B1 is as good as the B2 sonically??? 

Alex


----------



## Rensek (Jan 8, 2020)

adydula said:


> Rensek...
> 
> Are u saying the B1 is as good as the B2 sonically???
> 
> Alex



No, I'm just saying it's fun to compare your old gear to your new gear.

Well it's fun to me.

I can see where the nervosa of is it or isn't better might take some of the fun out of the new gear.

Good better best is so damn subjective, and we all hear differently.

Guess it depends on your personality.

I like both of my Bifrosts.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 8, 2020)

@adydula  -- If you enjoy A/B'ing, keep the BF1 with BF2 and get a SYS to A/B.  If you enjoy listening to music, just get the BF2 and enjoy. 

FYI -- @Rensek is a wee bit OCD and the poster-child for audio-nervosa!! **  


** I can say that because - 1) It's TRUE and 2) We're friends!!


----------



## Rensek

Yes, yes I am.

It's either endearing or annoying, to everyone, myself included, depending on the day.


----------



## adydula

Ha! You guys make a great tag team!!

Seeing how I want $10,000 for my B1 theres a chance it will still be around!!!

:>)


----------



## jcn3

HeadStrong said:


> PYST cables should be renamed to GYST (Get Your Schiit Together).  You get the gist of it...



Isn't PYST already covering it -- Put Your Schiit Together?


----------



## ev666il

jcn3 said:


> Isn't PYST already covering it -- Put Your Schiit Together?



I think he meant if you name them GYST, it also sounds like the English word "gist" so it's, like, twice the pun XD


----------



## tafens

ev666il said:


> I think he meant if you name them GYST, it also sounds like the English word "gist" so it's, like, twice the pun XD



Well, PYST does sound like the word “pissed”, doesn’t it?


----------



## Wes S

tafens said:


> Well, PYST does sound like the word “pissed”, doesn’t it?


It does now.


----------



## ev666il

tafens said:


> Well, PYST does sound like the word “pissed”, doesn’t it?



Well, it only took me three years and this post to connect the dots between "PYST" and _"the god of drinking in Norse mythology. He’d be much better-known if he wasn’t getting schiit-faced all the time." _XD


----------



## ohcrapgorillas (Jan 14, 2020)

tafens said:


> It would be very interesting to hear how you would
> compare Bifrost1 with Unison and Bifrost2 when you get it. All comparisons so far leaves the question of how much of the difference is due to Unison and how much is the dacs themselves.



I have a BMB (last revision) and B2, and primarily use coaxial SPDIF for both. I rarely use USB, even with my xDuoo X10TII as a transport (and it is a very good transport), Unison loses out to coaxial SPDIF from my Oppo BDP103 in PureAudio mode... by just a hair.

Comparing the two side by side, it's no competition. The B2 paints with a finer brush, aka more details, depth, clarity, and better bass extension/quality. Also, BMB has a thicker, warmer, darker sound. B2 is more neutral, just slightly on the warm side of neutral. Not a massive difference, but it's pretty clear that B2 is superior. I personally prefer the darker warmer sound of BMB, but B2 is superior in just about every other way.

I use B2 with my headphones and BMB with my speakers.

Edit: Early impressions but... I never actually bothered hooking Bifrost 2/Unison up to my laptop after the xDuoo X10TII (portable digital transport) + Unison lost out to SPDIF coax, and besides, I'd been used to not having my computer be a part of my audio chain for a while now so I hadn't given it a second thought until tonight, and... I am a little blown away. I am sure that this is as good as I have ever heard these songs sound. The finesse and clarity with which it renders textures and subtleties and captures the sense of space is very compelling. In particular, the depth, separation, imaging, staging, the overall way that the stereo image is rendered is stunning. I would be more upset that I didn't try this sooner if I wasn't enjoying myself so damn much. I wonder if the xDuoo's USB output was under-performing due to having to power the receiver, or the receiver was slightly underpowered? I can't imagine that xDuoo had in mind this little device having to charge anything so I'm not sure what its maximum output would be, but I have a USB cable that separates power and data at work, I'll bring it home on Thursday and give it another run.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Does anyone know where I can get a 3 way digital splitter? Right now I'm using two of the below and a few gender convertors plus wires.

I want one digital source to feed 2 DACs and one set powered speakers 

The current way I have it setup is working but messy wires with a bit of strain on the RCA connections


----------



## theveterans

ohcrapgorillas said:


> . I wonder if the xDuoo's USB output was under-performing due to having to power the receiver, or the receiver was slightly underpowered?



That's my issue with Unison USB. Despite Schiit's claim that it uses the least amount of power, it cannot be powered by just my iPod Touch alone. With the a good power feed to Unison such as the iUSB 3.0 Micro (fed with Wireworld Starlight 8 USB 3.0 from my Surface Pro) and Gemini 2.0 cable, I preferred the Unison over the SPDIF input as it's ultra revealing without being sharp on the edges during transients. SPDIF fed using W4S uLink is also excellent, but Unison sounded more natural in its delivery while the SPDIF is a bit more etched in its transients.


----------



## adydula

Ok, just ordered one....will compare with my B1 and see if I keep it or not..

Alex


----------



## adydula

I ordered the black one after years of silver from Schit! 
Think it will sound better than the silver!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ohcrapgorillas (Jan 16, 2020)

A quick follow-up... I had originally thought that the coax SPDIF output of my Oppo BDP-103 bested Unison USB. For those impressions, I was using an xDuoo X10TII (portable digital transport), however, I now think that it was having a hard time powering the receiver or something because, plugging the Oppo into Bifrost 2 alongside my laptop (Unison has an isolated bus all to itself) and playing the same tracks while switching back and forth, it's pretty obvious that Unison is superior. The dead giveaway is the way that Unison renders drums and cymbals, which is clearly more detailed/textured and natural sounding. Subtle details like textures and spatial cues are better resolved.... everything just sounds cleaner and more focused. Is it night and day? No, but it's still plainly obvious. Coax sounds a tad hazy and unfocused in comparison.

This is a good thing, because the Oppo takes up quite a bit of my desk space and is a bit of an overkill solution just for a digital transport for some FLAC files. I'll still grab a dedicated USB transport at some point in the future, but I'm not in any hurry and also feel like they're just starting to get really good, so I'm content to let manufacturers duke it out. I also have more important things on the list (anyone wanna trade me an Airist R2RDAC for my Oppo? LOL) Actually, the laptop sounds pretty damn good as a source.... something I never thought I'd ever say...  I did try the xDuoo as a USB source into Unison with a split signal/power USB cable, and used a portable USB battery for the power, but I kept getting this horrible popping/clipping with low bass on some tracks. Will figure out what the deal with that is at some point, but not tonight... I'm enjoying listening much to be bothered).


----------



## tincanear (Jan 17, 2020)

ohcrapgorillas said:


> A quick follow-up... I had originally thought that the coax SPDIF output of my Oppo BDP-103 bested Unison USB. For those impressions, I was using an xDuoo X10TII (portable digital transport), however, I now think that it was having a hard time powering the receiver or something because, plugging the Oppo into Bifrost 2 alongside my laptop (Unison has an isolated bus all to itself) and playing the same tracks while switching back and forth, it's pretty obvious that Unison is superior. The dead giveaway is the way that Unison renders drums and cymbals, which is clearly more detailed/textured and natural sounding. Subtle details like textures and spatial cues are better resolved.... everything just sounds cleaner and more focused. Is it night and day? No, but it's still plainly obvious. Coax sounds a tad hazy and unfocused in comparison.
> 
> This is a good thing, because the Oppo takes up quite a bit of my desk space and is a bit of an overkill solution just for a digital transport for some FLAC files. I'll still grab a dedicated USB transport at some point in the future, but I'm not in any hurry and also feel like they're just starting to get really good, so I'm content to let manufacturers duke it out. I also have more important things on the list (anyone wanna trade me an Airist R2RDAC for my Oppo? LOL) Actually, the laptop sounds pretty damn good as a source.... something I never thought I'd ever say...  I did try the xDuoo as a USB source into Unison with a split signal/power USB cable, and used a portable USB battery for the power, but I kept getting this horrible popping/clipping with low bass on some tracks. Will figure out what the deal with that is at some point, but not tonight... I'm enjoying listening much to be bothered).



I suggest using an old USB 5V (700mA to 1 amp rated) adapter instead of the USB battery.  The USB battery, like many of the newer high-power wall adapters, communicates over the signal lines with the attached device.


----------



## tafens

adydula said:


> I ordered the black one after years of silver from Schit!
> Think it will sound better than the silver!!!!!!!!!



Of course. Color the amp, color the sound!
Black for a blacker background.
Red for a warmer presentation.
Blue for a more watery, liquid sound.


By that reasoning, silver would give more glare..


----------



## ev666il

tafens said:


> By that reasoning, silver would give more glare..



You say it like it didn't...!


----------



## bboris77

Hi everyone, 

I wanted to run this by anyone who owns one of these marvels just to satisfy my curiosity and help deal with my paranoia  Because they had that bad run of capacitors with the launch units, I decided to really test out my Bifrost 2 and found some quirky things.

Basically, it appears that the right channel only is picking up some minor digital interference from within the unit. I can only hear it very faintly when I turn up my receiver all the way up without anything playing. At this point, I am at 127dB SPL. Obviously, I would never listen at that volume. The only reason why I tested it at that volume was to ensure the Bifrost 2 was not picking up my local airport's radar which a lot of units do. Happy to report it does not seem to pick up any outside RFI. 

What I do hear, only in the right channel, is a very faint rustling sound that is rhythmic in nature and definitely seems digital in origin. The left channel is interference free. Obviously, I ruled out all the usual suspects, such as cellphones, WiFi, USB, power adapters, ground loops etc. It does it also when only Toslink is connected. As soon as I switch to an unused output or press the mute switch on the Bifrost 2, the faint rustling sound is gone.

What I am suspecting is that the LME49724 opamp, known to be sensitive to EMI, is picking up interference from some of the microprocessor-based digital circuitry, either the Unison receiver or the SHARC DSP processor.

Keep in mind, this is all very academic because this stuff is all buried deep within the noise floor and is audible only because the noise floor is so damn low and I turned up the volume WAY past the normal. I just wanted to see whether you or anyone else with the Bifrost 2 has experienced anything similar. If you do test it, PLEASE make sure that your computer is not playing anything at these volume levels. I am not responsible for any hearing/equipment damage.


----------



## theveterans

You might wanna shoot a PM to @Jason Stoddard for what you’re experiencing. At sane listening volumes I hear no such quirks or concerns.


----------



## bboris77

theveterans said:


> You might wanna shoot a PM to @Jason Stoddard for what you’re experiencing. At sane listening volumes I hear no such quirks or concerns.


I don't necessarily wanna bother him directly about this as it really is a minor thing. Plus, this is Mike's domain anyway. I emailed their support just to let them know under which circumstances it happens. Does not hurt for them to be aware of it.
Keep in mind, we are fully in the realm of measurebation when it comes to this issue since it really has zero impact for non-insane volumes. My post was mostly intended to help alleviate any concerns that a future super-picky user like myself may have if they come across the same quirk.


----------



## Currawong

Catching up with the thread after a while of not reading it...



nasty nate said:


> Can anyone attest to the use of Bifrost 2 with a MacBook Pro? I see on the website: "From 10.10 on up, Macs are good to go " but then I also read "Sometimes you’ll run into power management problems that will require you to turn off App Nap."



I recommend using Audirvana for direct playback (or Roon, though that is way more expensive now) so as to avoid USB or other issues anyway.



Ripper2860 said:


> Jason Stoddard stated in another post he preferred BF2 over YGGY!!   If that is not a resounding endorsement, then what is?



I can't remember if it was Mike or Jason who was using the Gumby/Mjolnir stack rather than Rag/Yggy a while back. The way the Bifrost takes the edge off the music slightly is definitely very pleasant.



ev666il said:


> Well, it only took me three years and this post to connect the dots between "PYST" and _"the god of drinking in Norse mythology. He’d be much better-known if he wasn’t getting schiit-faced all the time." _XD



Could be worse. When I bought my very first vinyl back in the late '80s, Van Halen's OU812, it was some years before I got the joke.



JerryLeeds said:


> Does anyone know where I can get a 3 way digital splitter? Right now I'm using two of the below and a few gender convertors plus wires.



I haven't managed to find one. I use multiple splitters to daisy-chain DAC-amp-amp.

The other day, incidentally, I decided to try Yggy to THX AAA 789 using different cables. The first was an inexpensive XLR pair using Japanese Nanotec wire (DIY for about $50, assembled retail for about $200), and the second a pair of Van Den Hul The Mountain (Retail $1500 -- secondhand for way, way less than that). Annoyingly there was a significant and unmistakeable difference. I have no idea what would be a good bargain in between those (i.e.: closer to the price of the Nanotec) unfortunately. I did notice that sometimes a brand-name cable that was $500-1000 retail can show up on Audiogon for $250, making it a (relative!) bargain, but that is very arguably too much to spend for a Bifrost rig. I don't want to devolve the discussion into cables, but I thought I'd throw that in there.

I wonder if I should hook up different amps to the Bifrost and do a "Bifrost with a bunch of amps" video?


----------



## tincanear

Currawong said:


> Catching up with the thread after a while of not reading it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am curious about the interconnects making such a difference.  I looked at the Nanotec web page, and they have several grades (models) of interconnect wire.   do you remember the model number of the wire used?  Also, how long are the interconnects?


----------



## Currawong

tincanear said:


> I am curious about the interconnects making such a difference.  I looked at the Nanotec web page, and they have several grades (models) of interconnect wire.   do you remember the model number of the wire used?  Also, how long are the interconnects?



I made them with the #208 wire just using regular Canare plugs, though Nanotec uses the nice Furutech gold or Rhodium plugs (which are about $50/set of 4).   At some point I will get around to trying the #211 though. 

While a slightly odd-looking stack (I would have sat them side-by-side, but there isn't enough room) this pair made for a nice, slightly mellow listening session once I had gotten the Bifrost 2 warmed up again. The amp is the Soundaware P1.


----------



## tesarpa

Once I was testing various DACs and because I didn't have identical interconnects, I used one AQ Earth (RRP $900) and one QED Reference (RRP $150). After long listening, input switching, volume matching, I found any of those DACs wins when connected by AudioQuest Earth. So, at the end, I was practically testing cables instead of DACs.


----------



## bboris77

I have spent most of the weekend listening to the Bifrost 2/ Asgard 3 combo. I listened to a lot of music of different genres and did a significant amount of FPS gaming on my PS4 Pro using the Toslink input. My gaming consisted of exclusively Modern Warfare. Here are some thoughts.

Gaming is spectacular on this combo. There are absolutely no concerns about the 23ms latency. I mentioned this before, but my monitor's video latency is 11ms, so effectively this means that I only get 12ms of audio latency which is well within the imperceptible range. In fact, it sounds more natural than with my old Modi 3 which had no latency, meaning that the sound was _ahead _of the video, which is definitely more jarring than vice versa. The holographic soundstage quality that the Bifrost 2 exhibits is good for gaming, especially for games where positional audio matters. The natural timbre of the Bifrost 2 also helped with the immersion factor. With D/S DACs, I found FPS shooters to sound quite harsh and etched, and ended up turning the volume down to compensate. I always thought that it was a result of the sound design of the game, but it appears that these type of sounds really exacerbate the downfalls of the D/S technology.

Music listening is very enjoyable and effortless. I can literally listen to this combo with my HD800s for hours without any listening fatigue. I can now understand why Jason has the Bifrost 2/ Asgard 3 combo on his desk. The closest I got to this level of enjoyment was with my old Bimby/Lyr 3 combo, but I just did not like the unpredictability of tubes and simply had to jump on the new Bifrost once it came out. The Lyr 3 is also a bit more aggressive sounding than the Asgard 3 which is extremely balanced and smooth amp. I always found the Lyr 3 to sound a bit bass-boosted with the Tung-Sol tubes and a bit too lean with the stock Russian tube.

I have tested the unit thoroughly and have experienced no weird audible pops or clicks when switching sampling rates, which did happen with my old A2 Bimby. There have been no interruptions or relay click during gaming or listening to songs. The temperature of the Bifrost 2 with the Asgard 3 stacked on top of it was 40C, and the Asgard was about 38C.

In conclusion, if you have a truly revealing transducer, the Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 combo is worth it without a question. I have the HD800s for headphones and Klipsch R-15m speakers. Both of these are treble-monsters and this combo has managed to extract the most of them while taming the treble in a very natural way. The Modi 3/ Magni 3+ combo still presents spectacular value and will get you 90% of the way there with most headphones, but the B2/A3 combo does make a profound difference compared to its little siblings.


----------



## tafens

bboris77 said:


> I always found the Lyr 3 to sound a bit bass-boosted with the Tung-Sol tubes and a bit too lean with the stock Russian tube.



I har kinda sorta the same experience with the Lyr3(Tung-Sol)+multibit card, and tried rolling some tubes to compensate. Not bass boosted per se, but felt that the Tung-Sol lacked a little in clarity and sounded a bit muddy at times. Well, the Bifrost2 fixed all that and I’m thoroughly enjoying the combo with the Tung-Sol.

As you mention having the Lyr3 as well as Th Asgard3, Bifrost2 and old Bifrost, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Bifrost2+Lyr3(Tung-Sol) vs old Bifrost multibit+Lyr3(Tung-Sol) and Lyr3(Tung-Sol) vs Asgard3 both on Bifrost2 



bboris77 said:


> I have tested the unit thoroughly and have experienced no weird audible pops or clicks when switching sampling rates, which did happen with my old A2 Bimby. There have been no interruptions or relay click during gaming or listening to songs. The temperature of the Bifrost 2 with the Asgard 3 stacked on top of it was 40C, and the Asgard was about 38C.



For me, connected to a MacBookPro, Bifrost2 clicks when sample rate changes. That is, a relay click from the unit itself, nothing in the headphones.

Also, the Bifrost2 is about 40C for me too, but with Lyr3 on top. Lyr3 isn’t really much warmer either, a few degrees tops (measuring the top chassis on both, tube itself is of course hotter than that).


----------



## bboris77

tafens said:


> I har kinda sorta the same experience with the Lyr3(Tung-Sol)+multibit card, and tried rolling some tubes to compensate. Not bass boosted per se, but felt that the Tung-Sol lacked a little in clarity and sounded a bit muddy at times. Well, the Bifrost2 fixed all that and I’m thoroughly enjoying the combo with the Tung-Sol.
> 
> As you mention having the Lyr3 as well as Th Asgard3, Bifrost2 and old Bifrost, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Bifrost2+Lyr3(Tung-Sol) vs old Bifrost multibit+Lyr3(Tung-Sol) and Lyr3(Tung-Sol) vs Asgard3 both on Bifrost2
> 
> ...



I wish I could compare but, I sold both the Lyr 3 and Bifrost Multibit A2  Needed the funds to get the HD800s.

As for the relay clicks, my first Bifrost Multibit A1 did not have any audible clicks/pops through the headphones/speakers. The A2 revision had them only when switching from 44kHz to 96kHz and higher if my memory serves me. The Bifrost 2 is dead quiet through the speakers/headphones when switching. Of course, you can still hear relay clicking but nothing through the speakers/headphones.

In terms of temperature, the Bifrost 2 runs at least 10C hotter than the Bifrost Multibit A2. They crammed it full of goodness  Still, this is absolutely nothing compared to tube amps. I actually leave both the Bifrost 2 and Asgard 3 on 24/7 as I do believe the sound improves after a few minutes of warm up. Not as dramatically as a tube amp, but it is still audible. Multibit DACs always benefit from being left on 24/7, which keeps them operating at optimal temperatures.


----------



## Rensek

I was surprised at how cool Bifrost 2 runs. I expected it to be warmer for some reason. I feel like my modi multibit definitely runs warmer. I have a heat gun, I ought to check both units. 

I'm listening to the Jackson Browne album Running on Empty with Bifrost 2 and my 2 channel rig. I've probably listened to this album 30-40 times over the last 12-13 years. Combination of vinyl and digital. 

Man it is a revelation listening to it on the Bifrost system. Detail, imaging, separation, instrument placement are all on point. Like I've never heard it before. Ill have to get my vinyl version cleaned up and give it a spin on Sol to see what the vinyl version sounds like on this rig. 

Bifrost 2 does such a great job of revealing, presenting, and making you aware of stuff you haven't caught before. If I switch to modi 3 or modi multibit, I know I will hear the majority of what I hear on Bifrost 2, but I never paid attention to it before focusing on it with Bifrost 2. 

I'm a relative noob to HiFi Is that the sign of a good DAC? 

Or am I just getting better at my hobby as I go?


----------



## ev666il

Just got my Bifrost 2 and I'm listening to it warm up with my Asgard 3.

All I can say is,


----------



## adydula

out for delivery!


----------



## bboris77

ev666il said:


> Just got my Bifrost 2 and I'm listening to it warm up with my Asgard 3.
> 
> All I can say is,



I know - I keep saying that every day when I get back home from work and start listening to it. It really is a great combo, especially with the HD800s. Never say never but I am thinking this combination may cure my chronic upgraditis.

Just for the hell of it, I compared the Bifrost 2 to the Steinberg UR12 which has a Cirrus Logic CS4270 DAC chip inside, which is actually pretty good for a D/S design. I level matched them and ran them both through the Asgard 3 using a TC-7240 switcher. I listened to 3-4 songs while doing A/B switching and the difference was subtle but there - the UR12 had more mid-bass which at first instance gave it a bit more slam, but actually made the lower mids sound congested and compressed. The soundstage on the UR12 was more narrow with less air. The biggest difference once again was the treble - I was listening to Guns N' Roses Sweet Child o' Mine and Axl Rose's voice was very unpleasant to listen to on the UR12 - it had a glare about it which was piercing. With the Bifrost 2, it sounded much closer to how it sounds on the original vinyl recording (which I also have hooked up through the same switcher, but cannot level match). Sure, Axl's voice was still piercing and shrieky, but in a more natural and pleasing way, without the artificial digital edge to the sound.


----------



## adydula (Jan 21, 2020)

Just got here, its ice cold!! FEDEX truck was obviously not heated!!!

Will wait for a few hours to let it get to room temp...

B2 on top of B1.....ok comparisons later today....

...and the B1 is still FOR SALE for some lucky person out there!!! (its in the for sale forum thread, with the Unison Interface board)....


----------



## ohcrapgorillas (Jan 21, 2020)

Using a simple USB battery (two outputs, one smart capable of 2A, and one dumb capable of 1A, I used the latter) and a split data/power USB cable, I'm able to get the xDuoo X10T II (portable digital transport)  to get a clean USB signal to the Bifrost 2 without clipping, and man, it's even better than with my PC. The laptop was doing a great job with resolution, textures, and staging but had a drop of thinness/hardness to it. Using the xDuoo, there is no sign of thinness/harshness, but rather the meatiness and fullness that R2R is known for with great timbre and an even blacker background. I can definitely live with this until I can afford to snag a dedicated USB transport like Pi2AES.

Oh, and Schiit weren't kidding when they said that Unison draws very little power. Left the battery plugged in for five or six hours and it was _still at 100% by the end of the listening session. _


----------



## tafens

Rensek said:


> Bifrost 2 does such a great job of revealing, presenting, and making you aware of stuff you haven't caught before. If I switch to modi 3 or modi multibit, I know I will hear the majority of what I hear on Bifrost 2, but I never paid attention to it before focusing on it with Bifrost 2.



This is my experience as well, for me vs the multibit card. As well as other things like, wow, I never notived how that guitar string faded out for so long after being struck 



Rensek said:


> I'm a relative noob to HiFi Is that the sign of a good DAC?



So am I, but yes, I think it is.
This goes for great amps, as well. 



Rensek said:


> Or am I just getting better at my hobby as I go?



Certainly. I feel that I have learned quite a lot over the 5+ years (I know, next to nothing compared to others here) that I’ve been at it. Still learning a lot. Now I’m even messing with tubes (and loving it )



bboris77 said:


> I know - I keep saying that every day when I get back home from work and start listening to it. It really is a great combo, especially with the HD800s. Never say never but I am thinking this combination may cure my chronic upgraditis.



I just love the Bifrost2+Lyr3+HD6XX combo here. Would be interesting to try it with the HD800S of course, but that will be farther ahead in the future when I can get them.. I have the HD660S on that list, as well.


----------



## adydula (Jun 8, 2020)

Ok, I have been doing this stuff for many years and I think I know when I hear something thats really good and really bad or really mediocre.

It doesnt make take days and days of listening to tell if there is a dramatic or stark improvement in things.
At least if there really is some delta.

So only after a few hours using the new Schiit Bifrost 2 I have already formed an opinion.

So one of the reasons I bought this new dac was because of the Bifrost 1 which for a few years has worked wonderfully and provided me with many happy hours of listening with many different sets of amps and headphones. The other reason was to compliment by being able to use the balanced outs of the Monoprice THX AAA 887 amp I got a few months back, which I still think is absolutely stellar for its price point.

So you add up the new chips, power supply improvements, the Unison USB, balanced oututs, True MB, a remote (?), the new Autonomy Architecture (field upgradeable for future adapters and firmare vis micro memory card), and this statement from Jason in his FAQ "Well, leaving aside the fact that there probably ain’t nowhere near 24 usable bits in any recorded music, no matter the audiophile cred, if you’re looking for resolution below the 18-bit level, take a look at our measurements, showing Bifrost 2 clearly resolving a -144dB signal. That’s -24 bits. Boom. "

Boom! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




All this for $699, well $599 for previous owners of Bifrost 1…not too shabby if its really a world class DAC.

I mentally debated over spending the coin on this or another set of headphones and was hoping my recent Ananda experience would have swayed me back into the planar headphones, but alas it did not,

So, here I am with a B1 and B2.

So was it worth it.

One word: YES.

We all want new stuff to really WOW us and sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt, and sometimes we have a hard time admitting that that new toy is not as good as I thought it might be, especially after a few days and the new “toy” syndrome wears off.

So how can I say “YES” in just a few hours? Well because I have done this for years and at my age lying to myself is not a good thing mentally to me…each day, each hour I am able to listen at this ripe old age of 70 is well, important and quality really counts to me.

I have been blessed with really good hearing and still can hear up to 14Khz!!

Ok, the first time I turned the dac and amp I heard nothing!! zip, zero, nada!! OMG I got a dud!! So what was it, the W10 OS? the balanced outs of the THX AAA amp? or the DAC itself, so unplug the balanced cables, try the RCA inputs on the dac, voila music!! Ha!

Go back to the balanced setu[, double check conncections, right, left etc…still no music.

Hmmmm, Oh! whats that little black pushbutton switch on the right side of the THX AAA amp, it says
“INPUT”??? Now at least I had the common sense to turn DOWN the volume control and depressed the INPUT button!!

Voila !! As I cranked up the volume : MUSIC!!! Hahahahaha!!! Why did I go through this lesson…well we all can do stupid things in the heat of the battle especially when we are in a hurry etc…

Ok…so the first song I listened to was Preston Reed’s Instrument Landing “Inside A Face”, totally instrumental. I was floored.

Holographic imaging, beautiful depth and wide soundstage…the tone and realism was so, so nice.
Smiling immediatley.

Going back and forth between the B1 and B2 I could detect a difference in clarity and resolution of most everything, the live presentations with the B2 using the balanced connections is so much real IMO, its like your sitting in the audience and the hand claps listening to Bill Whiters Live at Carnegie Hall is Sublime…

I cant say specifically what particular frequency ranges are better its the overall “enchilada” thats improved…everthing is better defined, more “musical”…sounds closer to the real thing.

That said medicore stuff now sounds even worse!!

Earl Klugh’s acoustic guitar in Whispers and Promises, “Fall In Love” is to die for nice, the tone of his guitar strings are so natural. The metal stringed guitars for the Acoustic Alchemy group’s Blue Chios bright and stattaco like…I know this well because I sat next to them in a live concert and I mean right next to them (couldnt hear well for a few days!!)…Female voice like Anne McCue’s Roll and singing “50 Dollar Whore”…OMG good, bass drum, drum swishes, and her voice altogether so well articulated, lucious sounding. Ben Harpers, Fight For Your Mind…Drum whacks, stacotto like !!

The volume cranked up FULL tiilt at any gain on the THX AAA amp with music of pause is dead silent with the clears. I use gain 2 most of the time with the Clears.

So the trait using this dac with this amp and heaphones IMO is well “everything is so open, clear and transparent as the material is recorded” when recorded well this setup is close to a TOTL for me.

Swithcing back to B1 its still great, but like maybe 10% less overall great…you dont know what your missing until you compare. Its like I got a bottle of Discwasher for my Clears with this new toy.

Now this is a totally subjective experience, not going into measurement land and languish there…the only number I mention is that 144dB resolution thing above…

So as listen and type I can honestly say, this dac is indeed a winner to me, well worth the expense. It may not work any better for you and what your setups have today, or it may. The only way for you to know is to try one.

I whole heartedly would recomend this dac to anyone, especially if you have a balanced input amp…a marraige made in heaven!!



Pardon any mis-spellings!

Alex

Note: The remote!! It mutes and selects the different inputs, and has a mute of phase button. Havent really played with the phase yet.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 21, 2020)

As a BF2 owner, I'm glad that BF2 has met and possibly exceeded your expectations.  As a former Ananda owner (loved it, but I've moved up to Arya), I'm sorry it was not your cup of tea.


----------



## adydula (Jan 21, 2020)

Np, The Anandas were ok, but they were too big for my head, and I have a big head, felt like they were too loose and the overall sound quality was just too thin and brittle for me...like towards the Beyer treble.

The Focal Clears have really spoilt me in the "tone" they have...just so realistic...

I hope to in the next few weeks to review a set of Arya's they might be more to my liking...

Just goes to show we all hear things a bit differently and all is good!

Alex

Note: we have alot on commom! Vahalla2, AthM50's and the B2.


----------



## adydula

Golly gee does this thing allow for things to really open up!

Diane Krall never sounded so good!!

ha!


----------



## theveterans

adydula said:


> Golly gee does this thing allow for things to really open up!
> 
> Diane Krall never sounded so good!!
> 
> ha!



sounds like you’re in for a long sleepless night ​


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 21, 2020)

adydula said:


> Np, The Anandas were ok, but they were too big for my head, and I have a big head, felt like they were too loose and the overall sound quality was just too thin and brittle for me...like towards the Beyer treble.
> 
> The Focal Clears have really spoilt me in the "tone" they have...just so realistic...
> 
> ...



I'm right there with you on Ananda fit.  If it weren't for Dekoni nuggets, they would have sat on my lower jaw bone. And they felt loose. Arya fit is much better.  Ananda vs Arya differences will likely be like BF1 vs BF2.  I was pretty shocked at the diff.

As far as gear goes - great minds think alike!


----------



## kman1211 (Jan 21, 2020)

Ordered the Bifrost 2 in black to match my Asgard 3. After owning the multibit module on the Asgard 3 I realized I wanted to scale up to a nicer multibit dac. Also ordered a STAX SRM-353X for my Kaldas RR 1 Conquest, really looking forward to finally listening to the headphone. Hoping the Bifrost 2 brings things to another level with my current headphones, especially the Beyer DT 480 and Beyer T1.2. Maybe the HD 6XX will finally come to life as well.


----------



## sifulee

Hey guys I'm still blown away by my BF2 but now I need some recommendations for some new over the ear HPs. I prefer something on the more warmer darker side, something with a lot of slam, and very good bass. Something that sounds really good with Rap/EDM/Rock. Budget under 600, Thanks in advance!


----------



## tincanear (Jan 22, 2020)

tafens said:


> This is my experience as well, for me vs the multibit card. As well as other things like, wow, I never notived how that guitar string faded out for so long after being struck
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Having done a lot of side-grades or minor upgrades over the years, I find that the old adage "the poor man pays twice" applies to audio.   I recommend skipping the HD660S and saving up for the HD800 series, and buying the second-to-the-newest model at that time.  TOTL newest model always goes for a premium price, and the older model it "replaces" is often better bang for the buck


----------



## adydula

My 2 cents after years and countless dollars thrown over the side:

1. Bifrost 2 DAC
2. Asgard3, or THX AAA 887
3. Focal Clears.

The end...


----------



## ev666il

Very close to my current setup


----------



## AlanU

tincanear said:


> Having done a lot of side-grades or minor upgrades over the years, I find that the old adage "the poor man pays twice" applies to audio.   I recommend skipping the HD660S and saving up for the HD800 series, and buying the second-to-the-newest model at that time.  TOTL newest model always goes for a premium price, and the older model it "replaces" is often better bang for the buck



I think sonically everyone has a preference. I own the HD800 and I think it's a great set of headphones if you like that type of output. I would listen to my pair of modified HD800 when I'm in the mood for clarity, fake exaggerated large soundstage and hyper detail. Those pair of headphones do not present realism or holographic imaging like my cheap pair of Hifiman HE560 or the older and just as affordable Edition X v2. I even find the new Hifiman Ananda has lost the organic holographic sound signature as it presents more of a crisp clarity digital sound unless  you feed it vacuum tubes.

Do I enjoy my HD800? yes!!  I will admit I'd be very disappointed if I only owned the HD800. I also would struggle with a single DAC as I feel many have different sound signature's that work better with certain types of genre's of music.


----------



## adydula (Jan 22, 2020)

Thats an interesting take on the HD 800's....thats why I like the Focal Clears so much they done have an exaggerated soundstage with the B2 they now are allowed to be really an exceptional headphone. As far as struggling with a single dac, well at my age I have been there done that!! :>)

Seriously the B2 is really very, very competant!

Alex


----------



## ev666il (Jan 22, 2020)

Second day of listening to my Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 combo, and many audiophile buzzwords are taking place between my ears.

A few observations:


I no longer need the ifi Defender 3.0 to get rid of the ground loop that used to plague the Asgard 3's internal Multibit card. Interestingly, the ifi Defender 3.0 also made it hard for Windows 10 to recognize the Bifrost 2.
Based on feedback in this and other threads, I was expecting Bifrost 2 to be noticeably louder (i.e. higher gain) than the Multibit card. I did not perceive that at all; if anything, I find myself turning the volume knob higher—but that might as well be due to the fact that I really like what I hear.
Noise floor is much lower on the Bifrost 2, as is to be expected when comparing 18 bits to 16.
I can't stress enough how glad I am that Schiit are now selling their gear in black. The black Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 stack looks really good (linking the picture cause it is pretty big.)
I'm also enjoying the looks of the PYST RCA cables more than I thought I would.
In terms of how it sounds, well ... I'm just not very good at putting what I hear into words. I'm also reticent to use most of the aforementioned audiophile buzzwords (I actually go a little cross-eyed whenever I read the word "plankton" referred to how something sounds), and I'm not used to pay much attention to stuff most audiophiles die for, like imaging and sound stage. Here's an awkward attempt at putting together something that approximates coherence:


Sound is very detailed and—I loathe to use the expression—textured.
I can more easily place instruments and vocals in space.
I _think_ sound stage is slightly wider/deeper, but with closed-back headphones there's only so much that can be done there. Also I'm not used to pay much attention to it.
Bass sounds really, really good. It's very easy to follow bass lines and it's very engaging.
Albums recorded on Mike's GAIN system (which is the ADC equivalent of his True Multibit DACs) have a very _analog_ touch to them when played back through the Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 combo. Very, very pleasant. Like, _very_.
All this verbose semi-nonesense to say that I'm really happy with the Bifrost 2


----------



## MrPanda

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm right there with you on Ananda fit.  If it weren't for Dekoni nuggets, they would have sat on my lower jaw bone. And they felt loose. Arya fit is much better.  Ananda vs Arya differences will likely be like BF1 vs BF2.  I was pretty shocked at the diff.
> 
> As far as gear goes - great minds think alike!



Dekoni Nuggets are one of the most important audio innovations in years!


----------



## adydula (Jan 22, 2020)

ev666il!

I can tell you really like this dac!!!

I do as well, and I can tell in your responses that you want to share this good experience with us folks!!

Sort of birds of a feather....

Sometimes after I get a new toy....I am listening and a tune comes up in my random rotations I havent heard in awhile or its a familiar tune that just sounds soooo good....and you start smiling and wonder if anyone out there is experiencing the same thing...

The answer here is yes!! Yes indeed....as you said "very, very....pleasant...

:>)

Alex

Note: I am having one of those experiences right now!!!! ha!!


----------



## adydula (Jan 23, 2020)

Question is it ok to attach outputs to 2 amps, one from the balanced and one from the SE outs?
I think the answer is yes, I used a two way splitter on the back of the B1...

Alex


----------



## Rensek

If I recall correctly Jason has previously said both outputs are always active. You should be fine.


----------



## adydula

Did u see this !!

From the FAQ for the Jot R:

What if other companies do ribbon headphones?

What if the sun turns into a hot dog?

Huh? What was that?

Our light-hearted answer was a way of saying, “You can’t predict the future, can you?” What we can say, to be a bit more serious, is that if other companies start doing ribbon headphones, and if they use the same connector andpinout as Raal/Requisite, you’ll be able to plug them into Jotunheim R.

*You guys are weird!

Yes, yes, we are.

I would by stuff from Schiit just for comments like this…made me LOFL !!!

Alex


----------



## tincanear (Jan 23, 2020)

adydula said:


> Question is it ok to attach outputs to 2 amos, one from the balanced and one from the SE outs?
> I think the answer is yes, I used a two way splitter on the back of the B1...
> 
> Alex



yes, it should work just fine.  the caveat is that if the INPUT IMPEDANCE of the balanced amp is 600 OHMS (aside, the 600 OHM input impedance is more common with pro audio equipment, not home audio gear), then the SE outs may be a bit reduced in volume compared to the balanced.


----------



## adydula

Thanks for the input, will play later today...want to test the Monprice THX AAA 887 amp against others with the B2.

Alex


----------



## kman1211

Got the Bifrost 2 in a couple days ago. Pairing with the Asgard 3. The Asgard 3 is held back by the multibit module I had included, the Bifrost 2 gets louder, has notably more body, detail, solidity, space, refinement, etc. to the sound. The hint of brightness with long term listening is gone now. All my headphones notably improved on it, with the T1.2 and DT 480 - 25 Ohm (modded) being the biggest improvements.


----------



## adydula

The Bifrost 2 worked well with balanced and SE outs connected to two amps....great!!
So I can test the balanced and compare with the SE inputs into amps like the THX AAA 887 with a simple button push!!!
Voila!

Awesome IMO.

Alex


----------



## Baten

adydula said:


> The Bifrost 2 worked well with balanced and SE outs connected to two amps....great!!



Basically any product should allow this though


----------



## adydula (Jan 27, 2020)

Basically your correct!!

I still appreciate the simple things in life...like cold beer....

:>)


----------



## adydula

So simple things!!

Did you know the Bifrost 2 remote can attach to the side of the Bifrost 2 magnetically!!!

AWESOME!!!

:>)


----------



## Ripper2860

Interesting.  I knew I could magnetically stick my Bifrost 2 to the remote, but had no idea it also worked the other way around.


----------



## adydula

Ha! Your just looking for an all time LIKE record!!!

Then again some of us are slow learners!!


----------



## supersergios (Feb 8, 2020)

Hello good night, greetings to all to start

I was thinking of buying a D90 Topping or a Gustard A22, or a Gustard X26, but they have recommended Bifrost2.

I have recommended this model (Bifrost_2) due to my equipment and my Maggies speakers with low dynamics, but with an excellent “medium”

Here I explain my equipment, in order of output of the music:

Music player, I have everything in Flac: Oppo 203 (coaxial output), ApleTV (for AirPlay, optical output / for Tidal Masters) and the PC with Windows 10
Dac pending purchase (I now use an Anthem of cinema) (future: ToppingD90 - GustardA22 - GustardX26 - Bifrost2 ??? )
Power amplifier: Audio Research SD135
Speakers: Magneplanar LRS
Two SVS_2000 500w subwoofers

My intention is to connect the AudioResearch to the Dac (for the balanced output) and use the RCA outputs (unbalanced) for each of the subwoofers (it would be stereo subw)

I need a remote control since the Dac will be the one I do in advance (removing the Anthem and leave it exclusive for cinema with other speakers: B&W 705 range)

Well, I wanted to ask how this Bifrost_2 will go for my system:
-Better than the D90 Topping?  ... which in graphics is only one point below the $ 2500 Matrix
- Should I take the Gungnir model?  (It's only $ 200 more, I could reach)


----------



## Licht

supersergios said:


> Hello good night, greetings to all to start
> 
> I was thinking of buying a D90 Topping or a Gustard X26, but they have recommended Bifrost 2.
> 
> ...



Bifrost doesn't have volume control.


----------



## supersergios (Feb 8, 2020)

Licht said:


> Bifrost doesn't have volume control.



Hi, yes, look
https://www.schiit.com/products/remote-controls (Bifrost 2)

telling if it has volume control, you think it's better than the others for my speakers ..

I have been told that if I take for example the ToppingD90, I will have more 3D music space, but I will not have dynamics and especially nothing serious, even having both subwoofers.

What do you think?  thanks for your help￼


----------



## supersergios (Feb 8, 2020)

supersergios said:


> I was thinking of buying a D90 Topping or a Gustard A22, or a Gustard X26, but they have recommended Bifrost2.



This is the recommendation they have given me to enter to ask here:

I think you should consider other DACs:

Bifrost 2 might synergize well with the Maggies. Good strong heft in the lows and warm tonality. Very resolving of fine detail and ambient cues.
Convert-2. Even stronger heft and strong attacks without being edgy. Great natural timbre. Wrap around soundstage might play very well with the imaging particularities of the Maggies. 
 $ 2400 is very expensive for me now
Both above DACs will have more natural highs than the Gustard A22, A27, and Topping, which could be a blessing with the Maggies depending upon other components. Their strong bass kick will serve the Maggies well.

With the above two DACs, you are more likely be assured that you are not sending money to an evil empire (the quarrel is not with the people, but with the government and its Emperor named Xi) which will probably one day want to own Europe, that is after they have conquered the rest of the Pacific Rim (Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam) and then moved on to India.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with any of that Topping or Gustard garbage, except the A22 does seem interesting with the dual AKM4499. The thing with most Chi-Fi crap, especially those two brands, is that they lose their value quickly. You can't sell it for half the price if you change your mind later. These brands have a strong history of FOTM, when people hop on, or buy because the specs look great at the right price. They then silently get rid of them. New and latest and greatest or bestest measuring doesn't mean anything. Unless you have a Benchmark AHB2, I bet your power amp produces x100 more distortion than those best DACs, and your speakers x10000 more.

P.S. Look what the original poster who reviewed the X26 is using as a DAC now. That will be most telling of everything. I'm just giving you good solid advice and telling you exactly what I would spend MY money on. I'm hitting you with the hammer over the head here because it really does seem you want some sort of validation with your decisions, of which you will get none. You mentioned three DACs. Noneof them is my direct and honest answer to you.

And the same person answers me:

Gungnir Multibit original version (not current A2 one) using only balanced outs. A2 version is cleaner, denser timbre, more resolving, but may be tonally too cool for the Maggies.

Otherwise Bifrost 2 using balanced outs into your AR. If you happen to use SE preamp, then Bifrost SE outputs also sound just as good.

But he has never heard a ToppingD90 that says they already have a good blow under, a lot of sound spatiality.  That is why I have some doubts and I appreciate any information and opinion.  Thank you very much￼


----------



## supersergios (Feb 8, 2020)

I update my question, because I just saw that with “Gungnir_ multibit“ it is worth $ 1300 but it has no possibility of having a remote control of volume, so it is no longer useful to me ..

Now my question remains that of the beginning:
ToopingD90 - Gustard A20 or X22 ￼, or Bifrost_2 ?

Thank you


----------



## Licht

supersergios said:


> Hi, yes, look
> https://www.schiit.com/products/remote-controls (Bifrost 2)
> 
> telling if it has volume control, you think it's better than the others for my speakers ..
> ...



No, that remote you are showing is a remote for amps.
You can see remote for Bifrost 2 on the Bifrost product photo.

Button for volumes in amp is replaced by source selection (you can select direction you move) in Bifrost.
And yes, I own Bifrost 2.


----------



## supersergios

Well, then it does not help me to use it directly, I would need an audio preview.  what do you recomend?  
I still think of the ToppingD90?

https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/topping-d90-review-a-genre-master/

Matrix Audio Element X ($3000) VS Topping D90 ($700)

Besides being a DAC, Element X is also a full-blown streamer, preamp, balanced headphone amp, it is Roon enabled, it has its own MA app on Android and iOS and you can stream your music via Wi-Fi, it has also an internal music player that plays any music format from an external USB drive connected to it. Feature wise, Element X is something else and its much more advanced than anything I’ve tried.

D90 can be also a preamp and has a powerful Bluetooth receiver, its smaller and way cheaper too.

When it comes to music reproduction, they both are more alike than different. Topping worked a lot in making D90 sounding faster, slamming harder and having a wider frequency response. On the other hand, Matrix Audio worked a lot into making their ESS Sabre design natural, musical and full bodied. Both companies knew the shortcomings of their platform and worked hard on improving them to a point of solving those flaws. When an audio source is developed, you have simple targets: make it as resolving as possible and sounding as real as possible and I think that both achieved that.

Besides that, I still feel that D90 has a better depth and holography, I can see deeper into the mix, I can walk by easier around my favorite musicians. I feel an additional layer of air around every note. If I’m switching to speakers the difference becomes even bigger as somehow with D90 I’m listening to music in a bigger hall and everything is just floating easily around me.

Only sometimes I felt that maybe Element X offered a tiny bit more resolution especially in the highest registers but only when listening to high-end material and top-notch recordings. Otherwise, that thought will never appear in my mind.

I was quite stunned to find that D90 has such a clean and detailed performance, from the lowest bass to the highest treble, everything was there in spades and nothing would hide away from it.


----------



## Licht

How about Bifrost 2 AND Freya S (or Freya + if you prefer option for tubes) preamp?


----------



## Licht

I am now using Schiit Yggdrasil + Schiit Freya + Schiit Vidars (two) + Magnepan 1.7 in main system,
and Bifrost 2 + Yamaha A-S2100 + Magnepan MMG for living room and love both.


----------



## supersergios

eps, the new remote control for Bifrost 2 is diferent, 
control for volume:


----------



## Licht

supersergios said:


> eps, the new remote control for Bifrost 2 is diferent,
> control for volume:



Have you seen this?
And I've ordered Bifrost 2 last month and it was the same as the product photo and the photo of my remote I uploaded above.


----------



## supersergios (Feb 8, 2020)

Ok
Freya S preamplifier (or Freya + if Iprefer the option for tubes), more money, ufffff
  OK, I will study it.  Thank you.

  But what results do you think I will have with the ToppingD90?  According to that review, it surpasses the Matrix.  Can I trust it will sound good (for the Maggies)?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 8, 2020)

[edit]  Ooops.  I see the BF2 remote pic has already been posted ...


Arrrgh.  ASR.


----------



## MrPretty (Feb 9, 2020)

supersergios said:


> Hi, yes, look
> https://www.schiit.com/products/remote-controls (Bifrost 2)
> 
> telling if it has volume control, you think it's better than the others for my speakers ..
> ...



Edit: you guys beat me to it.


----------



## supersergios

Ripper2860 said:


> [edit]  Ooops.  I see the BF2 remote pic has already been posted ...
> Arrrgh.  ASR.



Yes, no have a volume:


----------



## supersergios

MrPretty said:


> Edit: you guys beat me to it.


I don't understand, all help is welcome


----------



## Licht

Don’t you believe me?
The photo on the remote page is for preamp.
Can’t you see the option for the type?

There are three different remote for preamp/integrated-amp/DAC.

They have different buttons for different functions.
See the pictographs in the remote with Bifrost.


----------



## motberg

supersergios said:


> I don't understand, all help is welcome



Note that some DAC's volume controls are software based... iiuc the original digital signal is usually oversampled, then the modified signal is adjusted to lower the volume. It seems the D90 may be software volume control. I had a Topping D70, which I think was software vol. control, and I considered the vol. control pretty weak.. I preferred any of my preamps (including a SAGA+) to the D70 internal vol. control. D70 had a nice sound, good tonality, space and very black background - -  but very limited dynamics, things like piano key strikes and snare hits did not translate well, to me the entire sound-field sounded like it was run through a nice soft-knee compressor..

I also have a Topping D50 - (I think it is on your ASR list), D50 I thought had very nice vocals but acoustic guitar had a plastic sheen and electric bass lacked tone, form and dynamics. Cymbals were OK, detailed but kind of artificial. Altogether I guess OK for the money. I use the D50 for my 2 cheap subs, vol. control with Schiit Sys and 45hz low pass filter with MiniDSP-HD.

I also had a Gustard A20H - pretty nice all around and this has a standard relay vol. control which I though was very good (tried XLR out to power amp for speakers), though not as refined as my Audio-GD C-2 preamp or detailed as my Lightspeed passive preamp... but it was good enough that I think many people would find it more than acceptable. The digital filters did not have a very wide range to my ears, but iirc you could select the filters from the remote while the music is playing. The default filter worked best in my setup.

The D90 review looks interesting and the reviewer noted the dynamics is greatly improved over the D70... You may be able to find some comparisons of the AK44xx house sound to the Schiit Multibit - my guess from what I am reading is the Multibit Bifrost may be more organic compared to a standard AK (smooth?) presentation. Maybe a more important consideration is the Schiit Unison USB vs. XMOS in the D90. Unison is getting good reviews from what I read so far.

I am not sure, but my guess is Maggies could possibly benefit from a standard active preamp with gain (depends on your amp) or a well made integrated amp in the chain (DAC-> Integrated Amp, vol. control at the amp). 

Anyway, hope that info helps a bit... I am thinking Maggies are fairly particular to matching equipment, so probably a good idea to purchase with the option to easily return the piece if it turns out to be a very bad match for your preferences.


----------



## adydula

No that is NOT a volume control!!

Read the manual.

Its a REMOTE, no volume function!!

Alex


----------



## theveterans

Just my 2 cents. Comparing DACs especially at mid to top level isn't as simple as one being objectively better than the other. As always, it's system dependent. Bifrost 2 can sound slightly thick on some speaker/HP + amp combo where the Topping D90 should sound more balanced and spacious with that specific system and vice versa. My best advice and it'll always be my primary advice is to buy all three DACs, demo them on your setup and return the ones you don't prefer. If you don't have that option, only advice I can say is that Bifrost 2 sounds incredible to us and as to how it'll sound to your system, YMMV.


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## Ripper2860 (Feb 9, 2020)

theveterans said:


> only advice I can say is that Bifrost 2 sounds incredible to us



That's a wee bit understated.  It's abso-freaking-lutely awesomely incredible x1000!! ** Come on -- you know it's true!!  

** my opinion is to be taken with a grain of salt as I own 2 Bifrost 2s and for me to admit they were anything other than awesome would be silly, wouldn't it?


----------



## theveterans

Ripper2860 said:


> That's a wee bit understated.  It's abso-freaking-lutely awesomely incredible x1000!! ** Come on -- you know it's true!!
> 
> ** my opinion is to be taken with a grain of salt as I own 2 Bifrost 2s and to admit they were anything other than awesome would be silly now, wouldn't it?



It's what cause me to have sleepless night every fricking day and cause me to be groggy at work


----------



## supersergios

I'm almost decided to go for the Bifrost2 and "Freya S" or "Freya + of tube".  And leave 4499 aside.  but it's twice as much money, I have to study it.  What improvement will I notice with Freya + tubes?  more dynamic?  sharpness?  musical cleaning?  absolute silence?  greater opening of the musical image?  In case I decide to be informed to know what to take.  Thanks a lot .  Greetings


----------



## adydula

Congrats on your decision and all the best!!
Enjoy your music!

Alex


----------



## Licht

supersergios said:


> I'm almost decided to go for the Bifrost2 and "Freya S" or "Freya + of tube".  And leave 4499 aside.  but it's twice as much money, I have to study it.  What improvement will I notice with Freya + tubes?  more dynamic?  sharpness?  musical cleaning?  absolute silence?  greater opening of the musical image?  In case I decide to be informed to know what to take.  Thanks a lot .  Greetings



Tube makes it punchy fluid alive sound, in my opinion, while Solid State being more flat and wide frequency range, but could be bland compared to tube. 
If you want measurement, tube is waaay worse than solid state or passive.
But in Freya +, you can select Tube gain, JFET buffer, or passive depending on your mood or preference.


----------



## motberg

sorry for the off-topic but I just like to add that with the Freya + (and also Saga +) the ability to switch back and forth with the remote between tube and no-tube works as a great reference while you are evaluating different tube models... having that standard no-tube reference always available helps provide a convenient reality check as to what is happening in the sound field using the different tubes..


----------



## 2ndWedge

adydula said:


> Congrats on your decision and all the best!!
> Enjoy your music!
> 
> Alex


I'm new here and we are getting close to decision day (March 31) for existing Bifrost owners.  I have owned a Bifrost since the year it was released and have performed all the upgrades with the exception of the last one in which I opted for Etir.  I have 2 questions.  Using the USB in and RCA out what is the difference in sound (if any) of the Bifrost with the $200 Unison USB upgrade board vs. the sound of the Bifrost 2.  The 2nd question (which may be dumb) is if I go with the upgrade board do I end up with a Bifrost with 2 separate power supplies or is that only designed into a Bifrost 2?  I'm hoping Alex can help here.


----------



## adydula

Hello 2ndWedge!

The difference is slight, but better IMO.
I had the B1 with a special early Beta Unison Interface Adapter so I got t hear the difference in Unison in the B1 for a few months...

I would highly recommend doing the upgrade to the Bifrost 2 if you can afford it....its that good and will last you as a great dac for years to come.

Just by buying the B1 Unison upgrade wont make your B1 into a B2.

The B2 has better power regulation, a better filter and better dac chips....and Unison....

I went thru the same thought process and with the $100 discount and selling the B1 it made more sense in the long term to upgrade...

Good luck with your choice!
Alex


----------



## Rensek

I'm currently debating a second Bifrost 2 or the unison board for my old Bifrost 1. 150 for USB capabilities on a 4490 DAC vs putting 150 towards a second Bifrost 2. 

Decisions decisions.


----------



## chanman96

I just read through this entire thread... so much content!  Dangerous really. Have a modi 3 and I’m fearing just subtle incremental improvement for multiple amounts more $$$ but it looks like everyone has been happy with the bifrost 2 so far. May have to take Schiit up on their 15 day trial period.


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## adydula (Feb 13, 2020)

This will eat at you!!! Ha!!

Sell the modi 3 and get the Biforst 2!! Ha!!
Then you will have a great dac that will last you for many years!!

I just got a Jotenhiem to pair with the Bifrost 2 to use the balanced connections!
Another really nice match.....

Alex


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## Sean H (Feb 13, 2020)

I just received a Bifrost 2 yesterday and so far it really is a phenomenal DAC. It's my first R2R DAC and I'm definitely hearing that more natural, non-fatiguing tonality and engaging quality. I'm struck by the well defined images and deep soundstage which is better than my other DAC which is no slouch. @2ndWedge If you can find the specs/features of the Bifrost 1 and compare it to the Bifrost 2 you'll find there are a number of important upgrades besides the Unison USB feature. For what it's worth, while I have not heard the previous Schiit USB 5 implementation I will say the USB input sounds great but it does not sound as good as the way I've had my digital chain set up which is SPDIF Toslink out of a Macbook Pro into a Musiland SRC10 upsampler/reclocker and then coaxial out to the Bifrost 2 where it's notably better sounding than the straight USB connection.

Hoping to share some more impressions as it breaks in and I get more familiar with the sound which again is really, really good.


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## ssmith3046 (Feb 13, 2020)

chanman96 said:


> I just read through this entire thread... so much content!  Dangerous really. Have a modi 3 and I’m fearing just subtle incremental improvement for multiple amounts more $$$ but it looks like everyone has been happy with the bifrost 2 so far. May have to take Schiit up on their 15 day trial period.


I had a Modi 3 and bought a Modi multibit and I'm absolutely floored in the improvement in the sound quality that I'm hearing from the Modi multibit.  I thought that the Modi 3 was a great little DAC, and for hundred bucks it is, but I love my Modi multibit.  I might go with a Bifrost 2 someday but I'm more than happy with the Modi multibit for now.


----------



## supersergios

good good (or no good), 
after making the right decision: choose the Bifroost2 h the Froya +,
But for personal work issues (the cancellation of the mobile fair in Barcelona that will make me lose a lot of money, specifically the recovery of January and February / I am taxi driver in BCN and Cabify is hitting my economy hard). 
 The thing is, I can't afford what I had thought now, so my MagnetoPlanars will have to settle for the ToppingD90.  But I will be attentive to the news, like seeing if the top of MultiBit range is put the AK9944.  I hope then to be recovered and go directly to that without going through the Bifrost2 (it's dreaming and it's free).

  Greetings to all friends,
and thanks for all that you have informed me


----------



## Sean H (Feb 13, 2020)

Oh. My. God. Are you Schiiting me?!?!? Wow. This thing sounds absolutely fantastic! I got home from work this evening and the Bifrost 2 had been burning in for about 24 hours and I sat down to listen and haven't hardly moved except to eat quick. I'm floored by how natural and huge it sounds. I was a little concerned when I listened to it for a bit straight out of the box yesterday noting a little bit of a lack of refinement, bass felt a touch lacking, there was a subtle grayness throughout and it felt like there was a touch of air missing (soundstage height/spatial cues/decay). That said the natural tonality was quite engaging and the soundstage depth was quite nice indeed. Well, after 24 hours this thing has rectified all of that in every way! The soundstage and dimensionality absolutely opened up in every direction, lots of air, space and decay, impactful and very deep bass, very black background and overall much more refined. The resolution and window into the recording and space within the soundstage is phenomenal. Imaging is excellent and the sense of layering within the soundstage is easily discernible. I can't get over it. Guys, 15-20 years ago you could only get this kind of resolution, resolving quality and musical essence in really high priced DAC's and CD players. This thing is $700? That's nuts. Everything just sounds so good and you feel engaged to just listen. I'm not skipping around and listening to my usual audiophile fare, I'm just listening. The analog-like quality makes music just a joy to listen to and there is no listening fatigue whatsoever. There's nothing syrupy here, it's not overly warm, not boring, there's no wet blanket over the music. It's just very much tonally accurate and natural sounding - but everything is there. The dimensional soundscape, it's nuts!

Anyhow, there's some more impressions. I know this thread has been going for a while now and the hype has leveled off a little but there you go. This is a fantastic DAC indeed.


----------



## theveterans

Now you know we and especially @Ripper2860 are not exaggerating on how much awesomesauce this DAC can be.


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## Leviathant (Feb 14, 2020)

Hello, just been reading through the thread and I thought I’d get a few views on my current dilemma.

Been downsizing/downgrading my gear a bit recently and am wanted a setup a more affordable setup. I’m looking at the Bifrost 2 or Modi Multibit for that system.

Setup will be Tidal > Oppo UDP 203 (transport) > Bifrost 2/Modi MB > EC ZDT Jr > HD6xx.

I wonder whether the Bifrost 2 will be leaps and bounds ahead in this chain for well over twice the price of the Modi or not? I won’t be utilising Unison or Balanced outs so would Bifrost 2 be overkill? In the UK Bifrost is £730 and Modi MB is £280, which is a huge gap in price.

I am attracted the idea that the B2 gets close to the sound of the original Gumby too as I owned that for a time and really loved the sound.

Any thoughts that might help me here? Thanks


----------



## ssmith3046

W


Leviathant said:


> Hello, just been reading through the thread and I thought I’d get a few views on my current dilemma.
> 
> Been downsizing/downgrading my gear a bit recently and am wanted a setup a more affordable setup. I’m looking at the Bifrost 2 or Modi Multibit for that system.
> 
> ...


I'm very happy my Modi multibit but I've wondered the same thing.  I've read that there's not that big of difference between the Bifrost 2 and the Modi multibit.  I'll be looking forward to hearing the answers to your question. Considerable price difference.


----------



## theveterans

ssmith3046 said:


> W
> 
> I'm very happy my Modi multibit but I've wondered the same thing.  I've read that there's not that big of difference between the Bifrost 2 and the Modi multibit.  I'll be looking forward to hearing the answers to your question. Considerable price difference.



I'd say if one perceives little difference between Bifrost 2 and Modi Multibit, their system doesn't pair well with Bifrost 2. It should be noticeable immediately that Bifrost 2 is a lot better, as in ten seconds or less after pressing play, at least that's what I perceived when I demoed the whole Schiit MB lineup at Schiitr


----------



## ssmith3046

theveterans said:


> I'd say if one perceives little difference between Bifrost 2 and Modi Multibit, their system doesn't pair well with Bifrost 2. It should be noticeable immediately that Bifrost 2 is a lot better, as in ten seconds or less after pressing play, at least that's what I perceived when I demoed the whole Schiit MB lineup at Schiitr


Good to know.  I believed it was bound to be a step up.  Have you heard the Bifrost 4490?


----------



## Sean H (Feb 14, 2020)

theveterans said:


> I'd say if one perceives little difference between Bifrost 2 and Modi Multibit, their system doesn't pair well with Bifrost 2. It should be noticeable immediately that Bifrost 2 is a lot better, as in ten seconds or less after pressing play, at least that's what I perceived when I demoed the whole Schiit MB lineup at Schiitr



If the BF2 is in fact close the level of the Gumby now, as many are reporting, then I agree and would be led to believe that the BF2 should be noticeably better than the Modi Multibit. In addition to your thought about whether the BF2 pairs well or not with their system, I would add it could also be that the amp and/or headphones/speakers aren't _allowing_ them to hear as much of a difference.


----------



## Shotland

I had a Mimby and then upgraded to an older Bifrost Uber. I did a few AB's. Both myself, my friend, and my non-audio-enthusiastic sister all blindly chose the Bifrost every time. I can't speak about the BF2, but a non multibit, older bifrost clearly out did the modi multibit... soo.....


----------



## tafens

Leviathant said:


> I wonder whether the Bifrost 2 will be leaps and bounds ahead in this chain for well over twice the price of the Modi or not? I won’t be utilising Unison or Balanced outs so would Bifrost 2 be overkill? In the UK Bifrost is £730 and Modi MB is £280, which is a huge gap in price.
> 
> I am attracted the idea that the B2 gets close to the sound of the original Gumby too as I owned that for a time and really loved the sound.
> 
> Any thoughts that might help me here? Thanks



In my experience with the multibit card (which uses the same tech as Modi multibit) vs the Bifrost2, the difference is substantial. It has been called the mini Yggdrasil, and although I haven’t heard the Yggdrasil nor the Gugnir myself, I’ve read that it is well deserved


----------



## tafens

theveterans said:


> I'd say if one perceives little difference between Bifrost 2 and Modi Multibit, their system doesn't pair well with Bifrost 2. It should be noticeable immediately that Bifrost 2 is a lot better, as in ten seconds or less after pressing play, at least that's what I perceived when I demoed the whole Schiit MB lineup at Schiitr



Yes, It was kind of a “Holy Schiit”-moment


----------



## chanman96

You guys are the worst. Time to sell some stuff to offset the dollars I’m going to spend on the bifrost. There’s a used Gumby floating around in the fs section that looks tempting but a new bifrost with a full 5 year warranty, unison, user upgradable firmware and upgradable internals May be the play.


----------



## Wes S

chanman96 said:


> You guys are the worst. Time to sell some stuff to offset the dollars I’m going to spend on the bifrost. There’s a used Gumby floating around in the fs section that looks tempting but a new bifrost with a full 5 year warranty, unison, user upgradable firmware and upgradable internals May be the play.


As a Gumby (A1) owner, I have to say if I was in the market for a DAC, and did not already have the Gumby, I would go for the Bifrost 2 because of the stuff you mentioned.  They are supposed to be close in sound, and the Bifrost 2 is future proof.  I am happy as heck with my Gumby, but sure do wish I would have waited and got the Bifrost 2.  The smaller size is a big plus, for desk space as well.


----------



## tafens

chanman96 said:


> You guys are the worst. Time to sell some stuff to offset the dollars I’m going to spend on the bifrost. There’s a used Gumby floating around in the fs section that looks tempting but a new bifrost with a full 5 year warranty, unison, user upgradable firmware and upgradable internals May be the play.



That ultimate upgradability is great, especially when living a fair distance away that makes cost of shipping significant.

Were I to get the Yggdrasil I’d wait and hope for a next gen with the same field-upgradability as the Bifrost2. As tempting as the Yggdrasil is, the cost and other pains of shipping that colossus back and forth is not.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 15, 2020)

Ive got a modi 3, modi multibit, bifrost 4490, and a Bifrost 2.

short version, I thought that Bifrost 4490 was more revealing and detailed then the modi multibit with better transparency and longer decay, but the modi multibit had a fuller/heavier sound. All of those differences were impactful to MY enjoyment, but slight in the grand scheme of things. My wife is only around the bifrost 2 occasionally but usually remarks that she is hearing something new while listening to favourites.

Bifrost 2 had all of the detail of the 4490, plus a tad bit more....

Bifrost 2 had that multibit meatiness/fullness that modi Multibit has.

Rest of the equipment matters alot. Bifrost 2 really sounds special with my HD600s and Asgard 2. I love the Bifrost 2 in my 2ch rig.

The vast vast majority of these impressions were made with toslink/optical

I am just getting into USB now.

I tell you what, having that remote is handy.....


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 15, 2020)

I went from Modi Mutlibit to Bifrost 2 and believe me the difference is significant and for the better.  There's no comparison, IMHO. Bifrost 2 win hands-down.  There's much more to the Bifrost 2 than just Unison and Balanced Outs.  It's a completely different power and analog section, filter, and DAC chip than either Modi Multibit or the original Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## Currawong

I reckon how much of a difference each person notices depends very much on the rest of the system, headphones, and, I have to say it, cables as well. Most importantly though, the music. So rather than "I read somewhere..." I would more say "Person X felt that with his system of Y amp and Z headphones, there was a lot of/wasn't much difference over the Modi Multibit listening to [certain music]."


----------



## ssmith3046

Ripper2860 said:


> I went from Modi Mutlibit to Bifrost 2 and believe me the difference is significant and for the better.  There's no comparison, IMHO. Bifrost 2 win hands-down.  There's much more to the Bifrost 2 than just Unison and Balanced Outs.  It's a completely different power and analog section, filter, and DAC chip than either Modi Multibit or the original Bifrost Multibit.


Does sending in your Bifrost 4490 to shiit for the $250 upgrade to a multibit put it on the the same level as a Bifrost 2?


----------



## rkw

ssmith3046 said:


> Does sending in your Bifrost 4490 to shiit for the $250 upgrade to a multibit put it on the the same level as a Bifrost 2?


No. Bifrost 2 is a major overhaul of the orginal Bifrost Multibit.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-15152491

From the Bifrost product page FAQ:

*So how is the Bifrost 2 different than Bifrost?*
_It’s entirely different:_

_*Balanced output:* Bifrost 2 now has balanced output, as well as single-ended output, to simplify its integration with your system_
_*Remote control:* Bifrost 2 now has a remote control for input select, mute, and phase invert._
_*Better DACs:* Bifrost 2 now uses the 18-bit Analog Devices AD5781ARUZ D/A converter, rather than the 16-bit AD5547._
_*Better USB: *Bifrost 2 introduces our Unison USB—a complete elevation of the USB input._
_*Easier updates:* Bifrost 2’s Autonomy architecture means that both cards are replaceable from the back of the product for easy hardware updates, and firmware changes are handled with an external MicroSD card slot._
_*Improved power supply:* Bifrost 2’s transformer is larger, and the power supply has more stages of local regulation, for insanely great low-noise performance._


----------



## ssmith3046

rkw said:


> No. Bifrost 2 is a major overhaul of the orginal Bifrost Multibit.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-15152491
> 
> From the Bifrost product page FAQ:
> ...


OK, thanks for your reply.  So if you send in your Bifrost 4490 for the multibit upgrade the AD5547 is still used.  Not the _AD5781ARUZ D/A._


----------



## theveterans (Feb 15, 2020)

Currawong said:


> I reckon how much of a difference each person notices depends very much on the rest of the system, headphones, and, I have to say it, cables as well. Most importantly though, the music. So rather than "I read somewhere..." I would more say "Person X felt that with his system of Y amp and Z headphones, there was a lot of/wasn't much difference over the Modi Multibit listening to [certain music]."



Completely agree with this. It's cliché in this hobby, but component synergy is still a huge factor when upgrading DACs and preamps. I have tried Bifrost 2 on my Asgard 2 amp and my Campfire IEMs, but I ultimately find the best synergy with Schiit Saga preamp and Yamaha HS7 speakers. With my CA Andromeda, the Bifrost 2 and Asgard 2 chain is sonically inferior to my Chord Mojo alone, but Bifrost 2 stomps on Mojo when both are A/Bed through Saga + HS7 speakers.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 16, 2020)

ssmith3046 said:


> OK, thanks for your reply.  So if you send in your Bifrost 4490 for the multibit upgrade the AD5547 is still used.  Not the _AD5781ARUZ D/A._



Correct. There have been rumors about the old Bifrost Multibit getting a silent revision somewhere in late 2018 to 2019 but they have never been confirmed by anyone at Schiit. Even if there was a silent revision it was done using the AD5547, if you order a Bifrost Multibit upgrade, you are getting an AD5547 based upgrade card. If you paid money to schiit for some portion of that Bifrost you own, you get 100 dollars off Bifrost 2  until the end of March.

I have a 4490 Bifrost and a Bifrost 2.

Given everything else that Bifrost 2 has compared to Bifrost Multibit upgrade, I would try and find another 350 (plus the 250 you already have for the upgrade) and buy a Bifrost 2. If you don't like the Bifrost 2 or feel it's not a big enough increase you can return it...... If you send in your 4490 DAC for upgrade you are stuck with the Bimby upgrade.....


----------



## ssmith3046

Rensek said:


> Correct. There have been rumors about the old Bifrost Multibit getting a silent revision somewhere in late 2018 to 2019 but they have never been confirmed by anyone at Schiit. Even if there was a silent revision, if you order a Bifrost Multibit upgrade, you are getting an AD5547 based upgrade card. If you paid money to schiit for some portion of that Bifrost you own, you get 100 dollars off Bifrost 2  until the end of March.
> 
> I have a 4490 Bifrost and a Bifrost 2.
> 
> Given everything else that Bifrost 2 has compared to Bifrost Multibit upgrade, I would try and find another 350 (plus the 250 you already have for the upgrade) and buy a Bifrost 2. If you don't like the Bifrost 2 or feel it's not a big enough increase you can return it...... If you send in your 4490 DAC for upgrade you are stuck with the Bimby upgrade.....


Ok thanks again.  I'm actually looking to buy a used Bifrost 4490 because I want a delta sigma DAC.  I had a Modi 3 that I liked but after buying a Modi multibit, which I really like, I sold the Modi 3 and I miss having a delta sigma DAC.  From what I've read the Bifrost 4490 is a step up from the Modi 3.  But, I was just curious about the Bifrost 4490 switch to a multibit.  I'm sure somewhere down the line I'll eventually go with a Bifrost 2. Thanks again for providing all the useful information.  Lucky for me there's a Bifrost 4490 currently for sale here.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 16, 2020)

ssmith3046 said:


> Ok thanks again.  I'm actually looking to buy a used Bifrost 4490 because I want a delta sigma DAC.  I had a Modi 3 that I liked but after buying a Modi multibit, which I really like, I sold the Modi 3 and I miss having a delta sigma DAC.  From what I've read the Bifrost 4490 is a step up from the Modi 3.  But, I was just curious about the Bifrost 4490 switch to a multibit.  I'm sure somewhere down the line I'll eventually go with a Bifrost 2. Thanks again for providing all the useful information.  Lucky for me there's a Bifrost 4490 currently for sale here.



I really like my Bifrost 4490. I also really like my Bifrost 2. I am fully on board with the benefits the Bifrost chassis give over the modi chassis..

Power supply, output stages, etc etc. Bigger is better.

Just my opinion, but I think it's only a matter of time before we see a new D/S DAC from Schiit in the Bifrost chassis.


----------



## Sean H (Feb 16, 2020)

Rensek said:


> Just my opinion, but I think it's only a matter of time before we see a new D/S DAC from Schiit in the Bifrost chassis.



Hmm, I’ve got the impression that they might be done with making D/S DAC’s and are going to eventually go ALL multibit throughout the line. Almost sure I saw them say this in an interview? Maybe it was in regard to everything but the Modi. Maybe they will continue to make a D/S version in the Modi to hit that $99 mark. Hmm. Not sure. Anyone?


----------



## ssmith3046 (Feb 16, 2020)

I wonder if it will ever be possible for Schiit to produce a multibit DAC in the 150 to 200 dollar price range?


----------



## LeMoviedave

Sean H said:


> Hmm, I’ve got the impression that they might be done with making D/S DAC’s and are going to eventually go ALL multibit throughout the line. Almost sure I saw them say this in an interview? Maybe it was in regard to everything but the Modi. Maybe they will continue to make a D/S version in the Modi to hit that $99 mark. Hmm. Not sure. Anyone?



I have no proof, but I was thinking along those lines as well.  I can see people either going for the Bifrost 2 for less, or going all in for the Gumby.  I think the will keep the Modi where it's at, a D/S for $99.  There IS still room for another D/S between $400 - $600, but the fact they didn't release a Bifrost d/s at $500 or so makes me think they might not fill it.


----------



## Rensek

It was only about 6 months ago that Mike commented on 3 new D/S dac prototypes that had no business sounding as good as they did. Bifrost 2 took 2 years of development. I'm sure they aren't done with D/S dacs. But in what chassis with what style of output stage? Who knows, not I, that's for sure.


----------



## LeMoviedave

Rensek said:


> It was only about 6 months ago that Mike commented on 3 new D/S dac prototypes that had no business sounding as good as they did. Bifrost 2 took 2 years of development. I'm sure they aren't done with D/S dacs. But in what chassis with what style of output stage? Who knows, not I, that's for sure.


Well then!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2020)

Currawong said:


> I reckon how much of a difference each person notices depends very much on the rest of the system, headphones, and, I have to say it, cables as well. Most importantly though, the music. So rather than "I read somewhere..." I would more say "Person X felt that with his system of Y amp and Z headphones, there was a lot of/wasn't much difference over the Modi Multibit listening to [certain music]."



True.  I neglected to state that my improvement was IMHO and with my ears, my gear, and my music preferences.


----------



## blacklava

theveterans said:


> Completely agree with this. It's cliché in this hobby, but component synergy is still a huge factor when upgrading DACs and preamps. I have tried Bifrost 2 on my Asgard 2 amp and my Campfire IEMs, but I ultimately find the best synergy with Schiit Saga preamp and Yamaha HS7 speakers. With my CA Andromeda, the Bifrost 2 and Asgard 2 chain is sonically inferior to my Chord Mojo alone, but Bifrost 2 stomps on Mojo when both are A/Bed through Saga + HS7 speakers.



Hi I'm new to the forum, I have a similar setup as yours (Modi Multibit--->Saga+--->HS7 speakers). I would like to ask you if the upgrade from the modi MB to bifrost 2 is clearly udible using the HS7. Also, how do you connect the saga with the hs7? I have a cheap (10€) rca - TS 1/4 cable and I'm considering to upgrade, but there aren't many quality cables with TS 1/4 male. Thanks in advance!


----------



## theveterans (Feb 19, 2020)

blacklava said:


> Hi I'm new to the forum, I have a similar setup as yours (Modi Multibit--->Saga+--->HS7 speakers). I would like to ask you if the upgrade from the modi MB to bifrost 2 is clearly udible using the HS7. Also, how do you connect the saga with the hs7? I have a cheap (10€) rca - TS 1/4 cable and I'm considering to upgrade, but there aren't many quality cables with TS 1/4 male. Thanks in advance!



Definitely audible, heck I should say it's a clear and definite jump over my old Bifrost Multibit as well as the Freya+, Aegir and KEF LS50 + KEF R400b setup from Schiitr. I use the Mogami Gold RCA to 1/4 TS male from Saga v1 to HS8S then that is fed to the HS7 using Mogami Gold XLR female to 1/4 TRS male. As for BF2 and Saga, I use the Violectric Premium RCA cables


----------



## blacklava

theveterans said:


> Definitely audible, heck I should say it's a clear and definite jump over my old Bifrost Multibit as well as the Freya+, Aegir and KEF LS50 + KEF R400b setup from Schiitr. I use the Mogami Gold RCA to 1/4 TS male from Saga v1 to HS8S then that is fed to the HS7 using Mogami Gold XLR female to 1/4 TRS male. As for BF2 and Saga, I use the Violectric Premium RCA cables



Thank you for your feedback, I'm looking forward to do the upgrade to BF2 as soon as money can permit 

A bit off topic question, do you think LS50s (and of course an amp, maybe a schiit vidar) would be a substantial upgrade from the HS7? I've learned to love the HS7s but I know that the yamaha are more of musicians monitors for mixing / mastering instead of "audiophile" listening...


----------



## theveterans

blacklava said:


> Thank you for your feedback, I'm looking forward to do the upgrade to BF2 as soon as money can permit
> 
> A bit off topic question, do you think LS50s (and of course an amp, maybe a schiit vidar) would be a substantial upgrade from the HS7? I've learned to love the HS7s but I know that the yamaha are more of musicians monitors for mixing / mastering instead of "audiophile" listening...



To me, the LS50 is better sounding for mid to room filling listening than near field. The HS7’s sound dispersion is a lot more directional than the LS50 so it has a much tighter listening window (sweet spot). When both are used for near field, I prefer the more even treble response of the HS7 than the LS50 on axis listening


----------



## ohcrapgorillas

I have Bifrost 2 and am very impressed with Unison, however, I just want to make sure this knowledge is out there: I use an xDuoo X10TII digital transport with mine over USB and I frequently get a loud popping sound from the music if it is too loud/compressed. I think this is due to the 32 bit output of the xDuoo whereas Unison is limited to 24 bit. On the other hand, my SDAC at the office doesn't have this issue. The xDuoo is a fantastic little transport but afaik there is no way to force 24 bit output. Just in case anyone is planning on using these two together.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

ohcrapgorillas said:


> I have Bifrost 2 and am very impressed with Unison, however, I just want to make sure this knowledge is out there: I use an xDuoo X10TII digital transport with mine over USB and I frequently get a loud popping sound from the music if it is too loud/compressed. I think this is due to the 32 bit output of the xDuoo whereas Unison is limited to 24 bit. On the other hand, my SDAC at the office doesn't have this issue. The xDuoo is a fantastic little transport but afaik there is no way to force 24 bit output. Just in case anyone is planning on using these two together.




That’s weird. Streaming via microRendu into Bifrost 2 /Unison, I get a brief buzzing tone when I switch tracks. If I pause the track and then select a new track, no buzz. This does not happen with Yggdrasil with Gen 5 USB.


----------



## wgallupe

I had no problem with ultraRendu into the Bifrost 2. What are you using to control the microRendu?


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Was using either Linn or Lumin iOS app. Today I upgraded microRendu to 2.8 and those apps no longer work. Had to switch to mConnect app, but I don’t have the buzz problem anymore.


----------



## jean-luc

I'm listening the bifrost true 2 for 4 days now, really clean and involving liquid sound. I think it's an excellent value, compact and no brainer.


----------



## tafens

I can happily report that my iPhone11 works with Bifrost2/Unison with the lightning-to-usb adapter (CCK). Thought I’d give it a try and it works! 

I mean this one:
https://www.apple.com/us/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter


----------



## ohcrapgorillas

This last weekend I realized that the popping sound from the xDuoo was also an issue on Gen5 USB as well. It seems, without having too many more DACs to try, that the issue is exclusive to Schiit's latest USB implementations. I thought it was the 32 bit output into a 24 bit DAC that was the issue, but as it turns out, my SDAC at work doesn't have any issues at all (24/96 max). Weird.

I have been meaning to grab a Pi2AES or USBridge Sig sooner than later... and also an AES to RCA converter and some bulk coax wire/connectors, to try the xDuoo AES output. this is probably going to be the final push I need. The xDuoo is stunningly good with Chord Mojo, but seems to be incompatible with Schiit USB for whatever reason. Sad, because Schiit has done such amazing work with their USB implementations and the xDuoo USB output is pretty damn nice as well. They're a great combo when they do work together with music that has decent dynamic range.


----------



## chanman96

tafens said:


> I can happily report that my iPhone11 works with Bifrost2/Unison with the lightning-to-usb adapter (CCK). Thought I’d give it a try and it works!



Nice. I currently have the usb plugged from my Mac mini to the bifrost. I’ll have to buy a usb hub to see if I can use it for both the Mac and an iOS device. Type B usb hubs are not as easy to find as type A.


----------



## tafens

chanman96 said:


> Nice. I currently have the usb plugged from my Mac mini to the bifrost. I’ll have to buy a usb hub to see if I can use it for both the Mac and an iOS device. Type B usb hubs are not as easy to find as type A.



No hub needed to connect the iPhone11 to the Bifrost2. I connected it with USB B->A cable (same cable as I use to the MacBook), then to the lightning CCK, and to the phone.


----------



## Sean H

tafens said:


> No hub needed to connect the iPhone11 to the Bifrost2. I connected it with USB B->A cable (same cable as I use to the MacBook), then to the lightning CCK, and to the phone.



I looked into this once and I believe it will successfully pass up to 24/96 via this connection, is that correct? It’s intriguing because theoretically there should be less noise compared to usb out of a computer as well, correct?


----------



## chanman96

tafens said:


> No hub needed to connect the iPhone11 to the Bifrost2. I connected it with USB B->A cable (same cable as I use to the MacBook), then to the lightning CCK, and to the phone.


My post wasn’t clear. I’d want a hub so I don’t have to unplug the Mac mini every time I connect my phone or iPad. Not sure if that works but worth a try. Having an iPad permanently connected might be nice.


----------



## tesarpa (Feb 25, 2020)

chanman96 said:


> My post wasn’t clear. I’d want a hub so I don’t have to unplug the Mac mini every time I connect my phone or iPad. Not sure if that works but worth a try. Having an iPad permanently connected might be nice.


But what would be re rationale behind this? Usually people use iPad w/CCK to isolate the end point from the network, the power etc. In your case, you connect end point to USB hub, which still can bring all possible noise from other devices connected to it. I doubt there are any advantages in terms of SQ then.


----------



## ev666il

Last weekend I traveled back to Italy for a surprise visit to the family.

My father's into audio as much as I am, and he owns a very respectable home theater setup, so I decided to bring by my Bifrost 2 to try it out in his system.

There wasn't too much time for it, so we couldn't really run any comparisons between the Bifrost 2 and his heavily modded OPPO BDP-105EU—but we did go through a number of my albums in FLAC and there were a few surprises.

First thing's first, the audio chain.

We used the *OPPO BDP-105EU* as a digital transport, feeding the *Bifrost 2* via SPDIF.

The *Bifrost 2* was hooked to dad's heavily modded *Krell HTS 7.1* via balanced interconnects, and from there to a *Krell TAS* amplifier also via balanced interconnects. For those of you into cables, the interconnects were all van den Hul Thunderline, and speaker cables were van den Hul The Nova. Speakers were a pair of *Dynaudio Confidence C2* (the older, better-looking series shown in this video.)

The room is relatively large (about 40 square meters) with some room treatments. Going by memory from when the room treatments were made, deep bass response was much better than average but the rest of the spectrum could use additional correction. Regardless, the whole setup is very satisfying to listen to.

So how did it go?


It had been a long time since I last listened to proper speakers and holy cow, is it vastly superior to headphones. Yeah, I know what you're thinking: This should go without saying. I still dropped my jaw and wished I didn't live in a small apartment with thin walls...
The albums I thought would sound the best, didn't.
I own three *Guns N' Roses* albums in their Mobile Fidelity incarnation, whose analog-to-digital conversion was handled by Mike's GAIN system. Because the GAIN system is essentially a True Multibit product in reverse, I was expecting these albums to blow everything else out of the water when played back through a True Multibit DAC. However, while they did sound pretty good, they weren't the best of the best.

Albums I thought sounded very good were just good.
I'm talking *Avenged Sevenfold*'s *"The Stage"* (2016), *Carcass*'s "*Heartwork*" (Full Dynamic Range edition; 2013), and *Omnium Gatherum*'s "*The Burning Cold*" (HDTracks; 2018)

Albums I thought sounded good weren't that good in the end.
Especially the HDTracks release of *Insomnium*'s "*Heart Like A Grave*" (2019). Having a higher DR score couldn't save this one.

Albums I thought were good turned out to be jaw-dropping.
I'm talking top of the class: *Iron Maiden*'s "*Fear of the Dark*" (Australasian digipack) slayed everything else with its perfect clarity, amazing drum sound, punch, and sound stage. A veritable demo disc. Runner-up was the recent re-release of *Avenged Sevenfold*'s "*Diamonds in the Rough*" I purchased on HDTracks. Really good punch and clarity on this one—much more than I perceived through my cans. My DVD-Audio rip of *Deep Purple*'s "*Machine Head*" also sounded much better through speakers than it did through headphones, and was up there with these two and the GNR albums.

All in all, I was surprised not only by how big a difference it makes to listen through floorstanders, but also by how differently I perceived the sound quality of various albums compared to headphones. I can tell the difference between a good and a bad recording on my chain (Bifrost 2 -> Asgard 3 -> Focal Elegia equalized to the Harman Target Curve), but it's never quite as apparent as it was through my father's setup using the same files and DAC. I used to like the sound on *Avenged Sevenfold*'s "*The Stage*" better than on "*Diamonds in the Rough*", but it was the complete opposite on my father's chain.

I wish we could have spent more time listening to different albums and even comparing the same album on the Bifrost 2 vs the OPPO. Maybe next time. Until then, I hope this was an entertaining read


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Does Tidal play via exclusive mode when using the Bifrost 2 via usb? I don’t wanna deal with drivers that are not already present in Windows 10. The built in AK4490 module on the Asgard 3 won’t allow Tidal to use it via exclusive mode.

Also, doesn’t the controller control volume?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 26, 2020)

Yes.  Unison USB in BF2 allows exclusive mode WASAPI with Windows 10 via a native Windows driver.

DAC and therefore Remote has no volume control function.  You can switch inputs, mute and change phase with remote -- nothing more.


----------



## jnak00

You can use remote to control volume, but only to mute or unmute


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes.  Unison USB in BF2 allows exclusive mode WASAPI with Windows 10 via a native Windows driver.
> 
> DAC and therefore Remote has no volume control function.  You can switch inputs, mute and change phase with remote -- nothing more.



So Tidal can use exclusive mode. That's good  It's very weird that Schiit didn't implement volume control for a unit at this price point. I'm still considering a couple other dacs aside from the Bifrost 2; the new revision of the RME ADI-2 and the Denafrips Ares II. If I'm buying an expensive dac, I might as well get a very decent one.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes - Tidal definitely supports exclusive mode.

Looks like you have your work cut out for you with selecting between Bifrost 2 and the others.  They are all excellent DACs.


----------



## adydula

Wow thats a real testament for the Bifrost 2 !!


----------



## rkw

HumdrumPenguin said:


> So Tidal can use exclusive mode. That's good  It's very weird that Schiit didn't implement volume control for a unit at this price point. I'm still considering a couple other dacs aside from the Bifrost 2; the new revision of the RME ADI-2 and the Denafrips Ares II.


Not weird at all that Bifrost doesn't have volume control. It is a DAC-only, not a combined DAC+preamp. Denafrips Ares II is also only a DAC and doesn't have volume control either. On the other hand, RME ADI-2 is an all-in-one unit combining DAC, preamp, and headphone amplifier.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

rkw said:


> Not weird at all that Bifrost doesn't have volume control. It is a DAC-only, not a combined DAC+preamp. Denafrips Ares II is also only a DAC and doesn't have volume control either. On the other hand, RME ADI-2 is an all-in-one unit combining DAC, preamp, and headphone amplifier.



I wanted an R2R dac with the functionality of the ADI2. Any suggestions up to usd1300?


----------



## Baten

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I wanted an R2R dac with the functionality of the ADI2. Any suggestions up to usd1300?


Lol so basically Adi2 price? Doesn't exist man,

Just get the RME, you won't find Pro features in audiophile R2R DACs


----------



## Sean H

Baten said:


> Lol so basically Adi2 price? Doesn't exist man,



I'm struggling to think of an R2R DAC with volume in this price range as well. I don't think there is. From my viewpoint - which I'm more of a purist and is likely shared by most people here - thank god the Bifrost 2 does NOT have a volume control.


----------



## MrPanda

My Bifrost 2 is arriving tomorrow, replacing Bifrost 1 Gen 3 ... wondering if it will really be "night and day", or if the 'blind test" will be inconclusive?!?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 26, 2020)

Well, according to Jason's post - Night and day? No.  But according to Mike, it'll grow on you over time.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> I'm struggling to think of an R2R DAC with volume in this price range as well. I don't think there is. From my viewpoint - which I'm more of a purist and is likely shared by most people here - thank god the Bifrost 2 does NOT have a volume control.



I didn’t know it was the pre amp on dacs that did the volume control. I just went into Schiit’s website and saw all their pre amps carrying controllers with volume control. I also wrongly thought that the Bifrost 2 used the R2R ladder design. The ADI2 looks cool and all, but won’t differ much in sound from other dacs with a good implementation of delta sigma chips. Hummmmmm, I don’t like making decisions for myself.


----------



## Sean H

MrPanda said:


> My Bifrost 2 is arriving tomorrow, replacing Bifrost 1 Gen 3 ... wondering if it will really be "night and day", or if the 'blind test" will be inconclusive?!?



I've had one for two weeks now and I noted a large change in the sound after it had been on for 24 hours and am still noticing some subtle changes in the sound even now. Out of the box it was thick, a little gray and lacked some air but after a day it was fantastic. Give it a few days of being on/break in before making any big conclusions. Don't turn it off. I am absolutely thrilled with this DAC! Love it.


----------



## Sean H

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I didn’t know it was the pre amp on dacs that did the volume control. I just went into Schiit’s website and saw all their pre amps carrying controllers with volume control. I also wrongly thought that the Bifrost 2 used the R2R ladder design. The ADI2 looks cool and all, but won’t differ much in sound from other dacs with a good implementation of delta sigma chips. Hummmmmm, I don’t like making decisions for myself.



The Schiit multibit DAC's are in fact R2R ladder DAC's. They use R2R ladder DAC chips. You may be talking about "discrete" R2R ladder DAC's like the Denafrips Ares II? Schiit uses an R2R ladder DAC chipset where the Denafrips DAC's use fully discreet components in place of chipsets.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> The Schiit multibit DAC's are in fact R2R ladder DAC's. They use R2R ladder DAC chips. You may be talking about "discrete" R2R ladder DAC's like the Denafrips Ares II? Schiit uses an R2R ladder DAC chipset where the Denafrips DAC's use fully discreet components in place of chipsets.



Wouldn't that make the Denafrips be more expensive to make? And yet both sell at the same price. I suppose that's because one is made in America and the other is not.


----------



## Sean H (Feb 26, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Wouldn't that make the Denafrips be more expensive to make? And yet both sell at the same price. I suppose that's because one is made in America and the other is not.



Yep. That's definitely partly why. But like everything, just because the Ares II uses discrete components doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than the Bifrost 2 because it uses chips as it depends on implementation and parts quality. Of course it seems pretty clear that the Ares II is a great DAC and has great implementation. And then there is the huge importance of the analog section but that's a whole other discussion. I've just got to wonder how close the Ares II and Bifrost 2 are and while I haven't heard the Ares II I'm speculating they are probably close in performance and even carry a similar sound envelope. The changes they have made to the Bifrost have apparently made a huge impact and I've got to say I am completely blown away at the natural, analog-like tone and the insane amount of resolving detail and scale. I want to try the Ares II myself but who knows when new units will be available.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 26, 2020)

And do not underestimate the importance of the digital filter.


----------



## wenbinbin2010

Sean H said:


> I'm struggling to think of an R2R DAC with volume in this price range as well. I don't think there is. From my viewpoint - which I'm more of a purist and is likely shared by most people here - thank god the Bifrost 2 does NOT have a volume control.



Holo Audio Cyan is R2R NOS with volume control since it has a built-in amp too.


----------



## rkw (Feb 26, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I wanted an R2R dac with the functionality of the ADI2. Any suggestions up to usd1300?


Holo Audio Cyan
Soekris dac1541
Metrum Acoustics (several models)
Audio GD (several models)
Massdrop Airist



HumdrumPenguin said:


> I also wrongly thought that the Bifrost 2 used the R2R ladder design.


It is R2R, but like other Schiit multibit DACs it is implemented in IC chips rather than discrete components. Explained here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-572#post-14334167


----------



## Sean H

rkw said:


> Holo Audio Cyan
> Soekris dac1541
> Metrum Acoustics (several models)
> Audio GD (several models)
> Massdrop Airist



My bad, guys. I forgot about the Airist but could have swore all the others were over $1300.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

rkw said:


> Holo Audio Cyan
> Soekris dac1541
> Metrum Acoustics (several models)
> Audio GD (several models)
> ...



Thanks for pointing these out for me.


----------



## adydula (Feb 26, 2020)

That Mike Moffat explantion really makes sense in that post....monolithic sounds the way to go to be able to make many MB dacs that perform very much alike with all the variables and the cost down so they are affordable....also the digital filter that was mentioned is a Schiit exclusive...good or bad...to me its EXCELLENT.....even when comparing to much higher cost dacs....the Bifrost 2 is indeed a world class dac.


----------



## blacklava

MrPanda said:


> My Bifrost 2 is arriving tomorrow, replacing Bifrost 1 Gen 3 ... wondering if it will really be "night and day", or if the 'blind test" will be inconclusive?!?


Give us your feedback ASAP dude!


----------



## headsman

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Thanks for pointing these out for me.



The BF2 is head and shoulders above these DACs, regardless of price. Probably the biggest bargain in audio.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Well, according to Jason's post - Night and day? No.  But according to Mike, it'll grow on you over time.



Me when unpacking the Bifrost2:
Well this is the most expensive DAC I’ve ever bought.. unauditioned, too. I hope it is better than the multibit card (in the Lyr3) and that I can hear the difference..

Me after first listen: 
    


I’m convinced I can pick it out blind against the multibit card anytime. If I ever get by the Schiitr I’d be happy to pop in and give it a try!


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Do we have the option to chose NOS or OS on the Bifrost 2 by any chance? I'm still banging my head on what to get. I've ruled the ADI2, so it's either Bifrost 2, the Ares 2, or a used Gungnir multibit (bought from Schiit in Dec 2018 according to the seller). The 3 at pretty much the same price really.


----------



## Ripper2860

No.  It is 8x oversampling with no NOS capability.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Ripper2860 said:


> No.  It is 8x oversampling with no NOS capability.



Would that defeat the purpose of an R2R implementation? This way the sound will be very similar to a delta sigma chip, right?


----------



## Sean H (Feb 29, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Do we have the option to chose NOS or OS on the Bifrost 2 by any chance? I'm still banging my head on what to get. I've ruled the ADI2, so it's either Bifrost 2, the Ares 2, or a used Gungnir multibit (bought from Schiit in Dec 2018 according to the seller). The 3 at pretty much the same price really.



Here's some random thoughts. Regarding the Ares, nobody seems to know when they will even be available as new production units are always delayed and now with the Coronoavirus it may be even longer still (that's not a joke - there are reports already of some Chi-Fi products being delayed due to this). I'm not sure if I have ever seen one used? Can't recall. Not the Ares II. One thing to keep in mind is discrete R2R DAC's pretty much have to stay on all the time and it's reported it can take weeks for them to sound their best coming up from a cold start. Just something to consider.

Regarding the Gungnir MB, the used unit won't have the current Unison USB and it's rumored they are working on a new Gungnir that will feature the Unison USB, the Autonomy modular architecture that the Bifrost 2 has which will allow for future USB and analog stage upgrades and it will likely have an SD card slot for firmware updates like the Bifrost 2, among other new tweaks or changes. All that said it does sound like the current Gungnir is a tad better than the Bifrost 2 but it sounds like it's very, very close.

Regarding the Bifrost 2, it's more compact (if that matters), has about the same performance as the current Gungnir, you'll have a brand new unit with a five year warranty, it has all the latest features, it's now balanced, has a remote AND has the 15-day return policy if you don't like it.

You may have already been thinking about all these things but just trying to help. What is the rest of the system you will be using it with?


----------



## Sean H (Feb 29, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Would that defeat the purpose of an R2R implementation? This way the sound will be very similar to a delta sigma chip, right?



Not at all. Do some searches on how DS and multibit chips perform their functions. Schiit has views about NOS and they have their own proprietary oversampling filter they have developed that they say is superior to others in how it performs.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> Here's some random thoughts. Regarding the Ares, nobody seems to know when they will even be available as new production units are always delayed and now with the Coronoavirus it may be even longer still (that's not a joke - there are reports already of some Chi-Fi products being delayed due to this). I'm not sure if I have ever seen one used? Can't recall. Not the Ares II. One thing to keep in mind is discrete DAC's pretty much have to stay on all the time and it's reported it can take weeks for them to sound their best coming up from a cold start. Just something to consider.
> 
> Regarding the Gungnir MB, the used unit won't have the current Unison USB and it's rumored they are working on a new Gungnir that will feature the Unison USB, the Autonomy modular architecture that the Bifrost 2 has which will allow for future USB and analog stage upgrades and it will likely have an SD card slot for firmware updates like the Bifrost 2, among other new tweaks or changes. All that said it does sound like the current Gungnir is a tad better than the Bifrost 2 but it sounds like it's very, very close.
> 
> ...



My amps are the Asgard 3 and Drop THX 789. For now I’ve been using the Asgard with an internal dac module (AKM AK4490) at home and the 789 with and SMSL M100 at the office. A couple months ago when I bought the M100, I tried it with the Asgard and it was clearly superior to me than the internal dac, therefore triggering me into saving a bit for a better home dac.

I’ve indeed considered everything you have mentioned. The guy from Denafrips said that production is back at full speed for now.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> Not at all. Do some searches on how DS and multibit chips perform their functions. Schiit has views about NOS and they have their own proprietary oversampling filter they have developed that they say is superior to others in how it performs.



Could you point me out to any link were Jason or any Schiit rep talks on what they think about NOS? I’m legit interested.


----------



## Sean H (Feb 29, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Could you point me out to any link were Jason or any Schiit rep talks on what they think about NOS? I’m legit interested.



Ah, crap, I've seen and read so many of their interviews and posts that I can't recall. I'll try to find it.

One interesting thing is the Schiit multibit DAC's are in fact NOS with digital inputs of 176 and 192khz:

_Bifrost Multibit features an NOS (non-oversampling) mode for inputs with sample rates of 176.4kHz and 192kHz, where there is no digital filter applied. _

In my case I use a reclocker/upsampler to 192khz and so I'm listening to my Bifrost 2, in theory, in NOS mode. Might be partly why it sounds so damn natural to me and why the soundstage is so huge. As I've reported before, using my upsampler setup (coaxial SPDIF) it beats a direct USB connection to the Bifrost 2.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> Ah, crap, I've seen and read so many of their interviews and posts that I can't recall. I'll try to find it.
> 
> One interesting thing is the Schiit multibit DAC's are in fact NOS with digital inputs of 176 and 192khz:
> 
> ...



If I don’t need any extra gear for the reclocking, I’d be interested to know how you do it. I’ll go with the Bifrost and will order it any day this week. Hopefully I’ll wet my pants.


----------



## rkw

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Could you point me out to any link were Jason or any Schiit rep talks on what they think about NOS? I’m legit interested.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-12232121


Baldr said:


> _I do not believe in making non oversampling (NOS) converters. The required NOS analog “brick wall” filter has multiple poles and is very prone to ringing and horrendous phase shift._


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

rkw said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-12232121
> ​



Many thanks.


----------



## adydula

Bifrost 2 and dont look back!!!

Its that good....mini-Yggy!!


----------



## Sean H

HumdrumPenguin said:


> If I don’t need any extra gear for the reclocking, I’d be interested to know how you do it. I’ll go with the Bifrost and will order it any day this week. Hopefully I’ll wet my pants.



Awesome. Like you, I was heavily considering the Ares II as well and would still love to hear it. Who knows maybe I'll pick one up one day as well. If they are back to full production now it's still a very viable option you should consider. But if you go with the Bifrost 2 I think you will be quite pleased (especially if you let it break in for some days and leave it on). I'm blown away.

I'm still a little fuzzy about how one can upsample with software as opposed to a dedicated upsampling unit, maybe others can chime in. I use a Musiland SRC-10 that I got a while back. I run optical toslink out of a Macbook Pro to the Musiland, which then reclocks (reduces jitter) and upsamples to 192khz and then coaxial output to the Bifrost 2.

Thanks @rkw


----------



## Currawong

Up-sampling software will come with special algorithms, of which there are a variety available. SoX and iZotope are common. There is HQPlayer that has a variety of proprietary algorithms, some based on common methods and some unique.  It's expensive, but has a server/client system, so that some software can stream to it (eg: Roon). I think that the Mike's digital filter is pretty optimised as it is. He obviously designed it specifically for ladder DACs, for which it works well.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 29, 2020)

Sean H said:


> Bifrost Multibit features an NOS (non-oversampling) mode for inputs with sample rates of 176.4kHz and 192kHz, where there is no digital filter applied.



This applies only to 4x oversampling DACs like Modi Multibit and original Bifrost Multibit.  At 8x oversampling the bitrate would have to be at least 352.8 to be NOS which is higher than the supported max of 192 on BF2 (or any other Schiit DAC).  Jason has stated in an earlier post that Bifrost 2 does not support NOS due to the 8x oversampling rate, however a quick e-mail to support@schiit.com should clear up any confusion.


----------



## Sean H (Feb 29, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> This applies only to 4x oversampling DACs like Modi Multibit and original Bifrost Multibit.  At 8x oversampling the bitrate would have to be higher than the supported max of 192 to be NOS.  Jason has stated in an earlier post that Bifrost 2 does not support NOS due to the 8x oversampling rate.  A quick e-mail to support@schiit.com should clear up any confusion.



Ah, ok. Yeah, that original quote came from the first Bifrost MB, figured it wouldn't have changed in the newest version but I guess if you do the math with the 8x oversampling that makes sense. Well, as Currawong said, their digital filter sounds like it's very optimized.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> Awesome. Like you, I was heavily considering the Ares II as well and would still love to hear it. Who knows maybe I'll pick one up one day as well. If they are back to full production now it's still a very viable option you should consider. But if you go with the Bifrost 2 I think you will be quite pleased (especially if you let it break in for some days and leave it on). I'm blown away.
> 
> I'm still a little fuzzy about how one can upsample with software as opposed to a dedicated upsampling unit, maybe others can chime in. I use a Musiland SRC-10 that I got a while back. I run optical toslink out of a Macbook Pro to the Musiland, which then reclocks (reduces jitter) and upsamples to 192khz and then coaxial output to the Bifrost 2.
> 
> Thanks @rkw



I see, I didn't know about gear that does specifically upsampling. USB Unison it is then... But yeah, I'm set on the Bifrost now. Once I get it and listen for a few days I may leave my impressions here, with some comparisons with the SMSL M100 dac I have. I don't really care much about the price difference because SMSL did something incredible with this unit. So damn close in sound to the Geshelli ENOG 2 Pro.


----------



## LeMoviedave

Just thought I would share some quick... thoughts.  I recently had the chance to compare the Bifrost 2 with the Topping D90, and it was interesting.  Both were given some warmup time, and both were fed from my music server via USB.  Both used balanced out to my SP200.  There is plenty to recommend both of them.  The Bifrost is the warmer of the two, but not unpleasantly so.  It was't as warm as I was expecting, actually.  The topping was a touch more neutral with a bit more sparkle up top.  I also think it had the firmer bottom.  It was close for me, but ultimately, I went with the Topping for the fact that most of the music I listen to is classical, and the D90 had a noticabley more airy and 3d soundstage.  Even with rock music and closed heaadphones, you could hear the larger soundstage.  If that wasn't the case, I might have gone with the Bifrost as the warranty and modular design are awesome.


----------



## Sean H

LeMoviedave said:


> Just thought I would share some quick... thoughts.  I recently had the chance to compare the Bifrost 2 with the Topping D90, and it was interesting.  Both were given some warmup time...



Thanks for the impressions! I had the D90 on my short list initially and there isn't much out there as far as impressions. When you mentioned both were given some warm up time, were these brand new units with very few hours on them? The comment about lack of air and bass firmness in the Bifrost 2 reminds me of how it sounded brand new but a day or two later it completely opened up with a lot of air and deep, firm bass. As I'm sure you have read, R2R DAC's do benefit from being on for a while (many hours or days) and quite warmed up aside from normal break in. I've had mine for 2.5 weeks now, on non-stop and the soundstage/air is huge. I listen to quite a bit of classical as well. If you had a brand new unit that's cool but it would help in understanding what you are hearing.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

LeMoviedave said:


> Just thought I would share some quick... thoughts.  I recently had the chance to compare the Bifrost 2 with the Topping D90, and it was interesting.  Both were given some warmup time, and both were fed from my music server via USB.  Both used balanced out to my SP200.  There is plenty to recommend both of them.  The Bifrost is the warmer of the two, but not unpleasantly so.  It was't as warm as I was expecting, actually.  The topping was a touch more neutral with a bit more sparkle up top.  I also think it had the firmer bottom.  It was close for me, but ultimately, I went with the Topping for the fact that most of the music I listen to is classical, and the D90 had a noticabley more airy and 3d soundstage.  Even with rock music and closed heaadphones, you could hear the larger soundstage.  If that wasn't the case, I might have gone with the Bifrost as the warranty and modular design are awesome.



I was looking into R2R dacs mostly because of the sound difference they provide, and I wanted that. The only one with a DS chip I’d consider now is the ADI-2, but for the billion stuff it can do. Thanks for your thoughts on the 2 units though, always appreciate opinion from people that actually heard for themselves the gear they are talking about.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

What does the button invert phase in the controller does to the sound exactly?


----------



## theveterans

HumdrumPenguin said:


> What does the button invert phase in the controller does to the sound exactly?



To align the phase to be the same phase as the original recording. Bifrost 2 and Yggdrasil offer them for those recordings that are made with inverted phase. Some software like Audirvana can automatically invert the phase if the music has "invertpolarity" flag on its metadata


----------



## LeMoviedave

Sean H said:


> Thanks for the impressions! I had the D90 on my short list initially and there isn't much out there as far as impressions. When you mentioned both were given some warm up time, were these brand new units with very few hours on them? The comment about lack of air and bass firmness in the Bifrost 2 reminds me of how it sounded brand new but a day or two later it completely opened up with a lot of air and deep, firm bass. As I'm sure you have read, R2R DAC's do benefit from being on for a while (many hours or days) and quite warmed up aside from normal break in. I've had mine for 2.5 weeks now, on non-stop and the soundstage/air is huge. I listen to quite a bit of classical as well. If you had a brand new unit that's cool but it would help in understanding what you are hearing.



It was brand new,  but I left it on for about a week, before making any hard choices.  It is a great DAC.  Maybe at some junction in the future, there will be a rematch.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

theveterans said:


> To align the phase to be the same phase as the original recording. Bifrost 2 and Yggdrasil offer them for those recordings that are made with inverted phase. Some software like Audirvana can automatically invert the phase if the music has "invertpolarity" flag on its metadata



So the button is pointless if I don't know how the music was recorded?


----------



## Sean H

HumdrumPenguin said:


> So the button is pointless if I don't know how the music was recorded?



Ha ha. Kind of. I mean, it's there so you have the option to flip the phase back and forth to see if the sound is better one way or the other with the recording you are listening to. I have tried it many times and it's so subtle that I have a hell of a time hearing the difference. I hear some kind of change to the sound but then I struggle to figure out what changed it's so subtle. At least in my experience. It's a common feature in some higher end DAC's. Most of the time absolute phase sounds best to me, something in the clarity and separation but it's tough to discern.


----------



## LeMoviedave

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I was looking into R2R dacs mostly because of the sound difference they provide, and I wanted that. The only one with a DS chip I’d consider now is the ADI-2, but for the billion stuff it can do. Thanks for your thoughts on the 2 units though, always appreciate opinion from people that actually heard for themselves the gear they are talking about.


I doubt you will be sorry with the Bifrost 2.  I tried to rationalize keeping both of them, but I guess my rationalization skills have grown rusty.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

LeMoviedave said:


> I doubt you will be sorry with the Bifrost 2.  I tried to rationalize keeping both of them, but I guess my rationalization skills have grown rusty.



Here is one for your. It is totally fine to have 2 DACs based on 2 different architectures in order to experience both worlds with current and future gear. The same goes for pure tube amps, hybrids, and solid state. If your partner ever fight you over stuff you NEED! to have, just present my rationale and it will all be fine in the end. I have spoken.


----------



## MrPanda

Sean H said:


> Thanks for the impressions! I had the D90 on my short list initially and there isn't much out there as far as impressions. When you mentioned both were given some warm up time, were these brand new units with very few hours on them? The comment about lack of air and bass firmness in the Bifrost 2 reminds me of how it sounded brand new but a day or two later it completely opened up with a lot of air and deep, firm bass. As I'm sure you have read, R2R DAC's do benefit from being on for a while (many hours or days) and quite warmed up aside from normal break in. I've had mine for 2.5 weeks now, on non-stop and the soundstage/air is huge. I listen to quite a bit of classical as well. If you had a brand new unit that's cool but it would help in understanding what you are hearing.


I'm mostly a classical listener also - but just have a D5O to compare.  I really agree with Sean H after a few days with the BF2, one of the advantages of BF2 for me is more 'body' to the sound and more natural placement of instruments.  D50 to me is brighter, but it's also, to me, more fatiguing because I guess I'm treble sensitive.  Vocal ensemble Stile Antico is a little sibilant on the D50, not at all on the BF2.   So far, I'm very impressed with BF2 - I don't find myself getting fatigued, or really driven to go back to the D50 or my Chord mojo....


----------



## LeMoviedave

MrPanda said:


> I'm mostly a classical listener also - but just have a D5O to compare.  I really agree with Sean H after a few days with the BF2, one of the advantages of BF2 for me is more 'body' to the sound and more natural placement of instruments.  D50 to me is brighter, but it's also, to me, more fatiguing because I guess I'm treble sensitive.  Vocal ensemble Stile Antico is a little sibilant on the D50, not at all on the BF2.   So far, I'm very impressed with BF2 - I don't find myself getting fatigued, or really driven to go back to the D50 or my Chord mojo....


Stile Antico, nice choice!


----------



## genck

HumdrumPenguin said:


> The built in AK4490 module on the Asgard 3 won’t allow Tidal to use it via exclusive mode.


This is absolutely not true, I'm doing it right now.
Note that exclusive mode in Tidal only works on Hifi and Master tracks


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

genck said:


> This is absolutely not true, I'm doing it right now.
> Note that exclusive mode in Tidal only works on Hifi and Master tracks



Are you using Windows 10 drivers like me? I have the highest plan on Tidal, so the problem is not that. It works ok with my SMSL M100 with W10 drivers.


----------



## genck

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Are you using Windows 10 drivers like me? I have the highest plan on Tidal, so the problem is not that. It works ok with my SMSL M100 with W10 drivers.


I'm not sure what you mean by "drivers" because I've never had to install drivers in Windows 10 for anything. Yes I know everything you plug in uses a driver but I mean I didn't download a driver specifically if that's what you're saying. 
Yes, I'm using Windows 10. It shows up as Schiit 4490 G2 in device manager.


----------



## genck

see there, works fine for me. Not sure what your issue is.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

genck said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "drivers" because I've never had to install drivers in Windows 10 for anything. Yes I know everything you plug in uses a driver but I mean I didn't download a driver specifically if that's what you're saying.
> Yes, I'm using Windows 10. It shows up as Schiit 4490 G2 in device manager.



That's exactly what I get. It's weird that I can't get exclusive mode to work then.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

genck said:


> see there, works fine for me. Not sure what your issue is.



Can't find this screen on settings. What are the steps please?


----------



## genck

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Can't find this screen on settings. What are the steps please?





This is in the bottom right corner, Click on that and then "More Settings" under the appropriate DAC (if you have multiple)


----------



## HumdrumPenguin (Mar 1, 2020)

genck said:


> This is in the bottom right corner, Click on that and then "More Settings" under the appropriate DAC (if you have multiple)



Yeah, I have it marked but when I try playing a song I get "Exclusive mode not allowed". Oh well, as long as the Bifrost works without a problem when it arrives, I'm fine with it.

Edit: I found the problem. On Speakers properties I had unchecked "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device". I think I was messing with it when got the M100 a few months ago on my pc before taking it to the office. Working now


----------



## genck (Mar 1, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Yeah, I have it marked but when I try playing a song I get "Exclusive mode not allowed". Oh well, as long as the Bifrost works without a problem when it arrives, I'm fine with it.


I think this is your problem, go here in the control panel for sound (in windows)



edit: check both of those
edit 2: I see I was right lol


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

genck said:


> I think this is your problem, go here in the control panel for sound (in windows)
> 
> edit: check both of those



Yep, I just edited my previous comment saying that I found the problem. Exactly what you're pointing out. Thanks for the help.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Well, the order for the B2 has been placed. Let's see now how this game plays out.


----------



## dpump

On Schiit website: New Bifrost 2 $699. B-Stock Bifrost 2 $689. A $10 discount for B-stock? I sent Schiit an email and asked if the pricing on the B-stock was correct; their reply was that it is correct. What am I missing here? I purchased several Schitt B-stock items in the past and the discount was at least 10% off retail. I'm scratching my head as to the logic of this.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

dpump said:


> On Schiit website: New Bifrost 2 $699. B-Stock Bifrost 2 $689. A $10 discount for B-stock? I sent Schiit an email and asked if the pricing on the B-stock was correct; their reply was that it is correct. What am I missing here? I purchased several Schitt B-stock items in the past and the discount was at least 10% off retail. I'm scratching my head as to the logic of this.



I tried to get the discount that people with the original Bifrost get, but to no avail


----------



## Ripper2860

dpump said:


> On Schiit website: New Bifrost 2 $699. B-Stock Bifrost 2 $689. A $10 discount for B-stock? I sent Schiit an email and asked if the pricing on the B-stock was correct; their reply was that it is correct. What am I missing here? I purchased several Schitt B-stock items in the past and the discount was at least 10% off retail. I'm scratching my head as to the logic of this.



I saw that and was a bit surprised.  I don't really understand the incentive in buying 'B' stock over new for a whopping  $10 savings, but who knows.  $10 savings + free CONUS shipping might be compelling, though.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

I noticed this too. I feel like the B stock prices used to be more of a discount. $10 off Bifrost or Freya isn’t very much. I’ve purchased a lot of B stock Schiit, but for only $10 savings I’d probably just buy new and take advantage of the trial/ return period.


----------



## dpump

The $100 discount for previous Bifrost purchasers has been repeatedly stated, even by Jason, to be in effect until March 31. I don't see how they can't be honoring it. If that's the case, I am probably done with Schiit. They seem to be getting a little arrogant since they are now so successful.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

dpump said:


> The $100 discount for previous Bifrost purchasers has been repeatedly stated, even by Jason, to be in effect until March 31. I don't see how they can't be honoring it. If that's the case, I am probably done with Schiit. They seem to be getting a little arrogant since they are now so successful.



Oh the way I put it does make sound like I had the original Bifrost. I didn't. I got the Asgard 3 with the AK4490 module last year and I asked if they could add me in to the deal, which they didn't. I ordered it anyway.


----------



## Sean H

@HumdrumPenguin Congrats and hope you like it! Looking forward to hearing about it.

For anyone who cares, I had mentioned I had found using my upsampler/reclocker to sound best ahead of the Bifrost 2 as opposed to going direct and came to that conclusion early on after getting the Bifrost. But after some A/B comparisons today, 2.5 weeks since receiving it, things have changed. Initially I found going Macbook > Toslink > Musiland upsampler > Coaxial > Bifrost 2 sounded better than Macbook > Toslink or USB > Bifrost 2. But today, I did a ton of A/B comparisons and I am definitely now preferring the direct connection and not using the upsampler. And with that the USB connection just edges the Toslink connection. Maybe it was further break in, I don't know. So, the upsampler is out of my system. By the way I primarily listen to Tidal HiFi/MQA in Exclusive Mode. Such a great DAC, I'm blown away every day!


----------



## theveterans

Sean H said:


> @HumdrumPenguin Congrats and hope you like it! Looking forward to hearing about it.
> 
> For anyone who cares, I had mentioned I had found using my upsampler/reclocker to sound best ahead of the Bifrost 2 as opposed to going direct and came to that conclusion early on after getting the Bifrost. But after some A/B comparisons today, 2.5 weeks since receiving it, things have changed. Initially I found going Macbook > Toslink > Musiland upsampler > Coaxial > Bifrost 2 sounded better than Macbook > Toslink or USB > Bifrost 2. But today, I did a ton of A/B comparisons and I am definitely now preferring the direct connection and not using the upsampler. And with that the USB connection just edges the Toslink connection. Maybe it was further break in, I don't know. So, the upsampler is out of my system. By the way I primarily listen to Tidal HiFi/MQA in Exclusive Mode. Such a great DAC, I'm blown away every day!



You pretty much mirror my experience sans the upsampler part. My original post (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/#post-15159626) is that I use the W4S uLink USB to SPDIF (which I was using with the original Bifrost MB) and found that eliminating the W4S and going straight to Unison gives the best overall tonality while retaining the micro dynamics that I enjoy with the Coax input


----------



## Sean H (Mar 2, 2020)

theveterans said:


> You pretty much mirror my experience sans the upsampler part. My original post (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/#post-15159626) is that I use the W4S uLink USB to SPDIF (which I was using with the original Bifrost MB) and found that eliminating the W4S and going straight to Unison gives the best overall tonality while retaining the micro dynamics that I enjoy with the Coax input



Yep, very similar. In fact, I even tried turning off the upsampling feature which would make it somewhat similar to the W4S uLink and either way still sounded best going direct. Soundstage is bigger and more air, among other differences, compared to having the upsampler in. About the only thing I liked as much as the USB connection was coax had equal bass, maybe even a smidge more. Really digging the USB connection but due to convenience in my speaker system I'll likely use Toslink at times which to my ears still sounds fantastic despite many people not digging Toslink much anymore and, while appreciable, there's simply not a night and day difference between it and USB.


----------



## theveterans

Sean H said:


> Yep, very similar. In fact, I even tried turned off the upsampling feature which would make it somewhat similar to the W4S uLink and either way still sounded best going direct. Soundstage is bigger and more air, among other differences, compared to having the upsampler in. About the only thing I liked as much as the USB connection was coax had equal bass, maybe even a smidge more. Really digging the USB connection but due to convenience in my speaker system I'll likely use Toslink at times which to my ears still sounds fantastic despite many people not digging Toslink much anymore and, while appreciable, there's simply not a night and day difference between it and USB.



IMO, Toslink is a hit or miss on Schiit DACs. Maybe the SPDIF receiver isn't on par with Unison's decrapifying tech, but one certain difference between USB and toslink/coax is that the clock is dependent on the source instead of the internal clocking system from Unison and the Bifrost 2 itself. USB is asynchronous while Toslink and Coax aren't so the quality from both Toslink and coax is dependent on how good the word clock from those sources


----------



## caLeonard

Has anyone tried connecting an iphone or ipad directly to the Bifrost using the CCK from Apple? I use my iphone to stream Tidal, that's why I'm asking. Do you have to charge the iDevice at the same time or can you use the "simple" CCK adapter that doesn't have the extra lightning port?


----------



## tafens

caLeonard said:


> Has anyone tried connecting an iphone or ipad directly to the Bifrost using the CCK from Apple? I use my iphone to stream Tidal, that's why I'm asking. Do you have to charge the iDevice at the same time or can you use the "simple" CCK adapter that doesn't have the extra lightning port?



Yes, I have tried and it works. I didn’t notice any serious battery draw on my iPhone11.


----------



## Sean H

tafens said:


> Yes, I have tried and it works. I didn’t notice any serious battery draw on my iPhone11.



Any chance you have confirmed it is sending higher res audio, above 16/48?


----------



## tafens

Sean H said:


> Any chance you have confirmed it is sending higher res audio, above 16/48?



I don’t really have much any higher res than 16/48, but even if I dig up some how would I confirm what the Bifrost2 is receiving when connected to my phone?


----------



## Sean H

tafens said:


> I don’t really have much any higher res than 16/48, but even if I dig up some how would I confirm what the Bifrost2 is receiving when connected to my phone?



Yeah, exactly. Didn't know if maybe you had another DAC that displays what sampling rate it's receiving. I've seen it somewhere that the iphone with the simple CCK will pass high res, and even asked John Darko to confirm (he had an article that touched on this) and he said it "should" be able to. Just haven't found anything concrete in this regard.


----------



## caLeonard

Sean H said:


> Yeah, exactly. Didn't know if maybe you had another DAC that displays what sampling rate it's receiving. I've seen it somewhere that the iphone with the simple CCK will pass high res, and even asked John Darko to confirm (he had an article that touched on this) and he said it "should" be able to. Just haven't found anything concrete in this regard.



MQA via CCK works just fine with my ifi micro idsd BL (indicated by the purple LED). So I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work with high-res FLAC


----------



## Sean H

caLeonard said:


> MQA via CCK works just fine with my ifi micro idsd BL (indicated by the purple LED). So I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work with high-res FLAC



Great, thank you!


----------



## Sean H

theveterans said:


> IMO, Toslink is a hit or miss on Schiit DACs. Maybe the SPDIF receiver isn't on par with Unison's decrapifying tech, but one certain difference between USB and toslink/coax is that the clock is dependent on the source instead of the internal clocking system from Unison and the Bifrost 2 itself. USB is asynchronous while Toslink and Coax aren't so the quality from both Toslink and coax is dependent on how good the word clock from those sources



That's a good point I hadn't thought of. After reading this I tried it again and going straight from my Macbook Pro to the Bifrost 2 via Toslink and it again beat out going through the Musiland unit. Either the Macbook has a better clock than the Musiland, which is odd, or the Musiland is actually degrading the signal in some way, I don't know. I'll probably switch over to using USB all the time at some point.


----------



## jean-luc

Hi guys, I have a problem with mine. 
My bifrost 2 is ON all the time, sometimes the three LEDs start to flash continuously and I have to turn it off and then on again. Do many of you have this problem too?


----------



## xcom

jean-luc said:


> Hi guys, I have a problem with mine.
> My bifrost 2 is ON all the time, sometimes the three LEDs start to flash continuously and I have to turn it off and then on again. Do many of you have this problem too?



That sounds like you are loosing your source. This happens if you are using USB... (It shouldn't but I seen it happen with gen 1)


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0 (Mar 3, 2020)

Redacted


----------



## Jason Stoddard

jean-luc said:


> Hi guys, I have a problem with mine.
> My bifrost 2 is ON all the time, sometimes the three LEDs start to flash continuously and I have to turn it off and then on again. Do many of you have this problem too?



You need the new firmware. It's available on the site at schiit.com/firmware

This is not related to capacitors. That was incorrect information.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Jason Stoddard said:


> You need the new firmware. It's available on the site at schiit.com/firmware
> 
> This is not related to capacitors. That was incorrect information.




Sorry


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

dpump said:


> On Schiit website: New Bifrost 2 $699. B-Stock Bifrost 2 $689. A $10 discount for B-stock? I sent Schiit an email and asked if the pricing on the B-stock was correct; their reply was that it is correct. What am I missing here? I purchased several Schitt B-stock items in the past and the discount was at least 10% off retail. I'm scratching my head as to the logic of this.



B-stock Bifrost 2 is now $639


----------



## xcom

I have a Gen 1 with updated Unison USB and Multibit. Is it worth upgrading to Gen 2?


----------



## jean-luc

Jason Stoddard said:


> You need the new firmware. It's available on the site at schiit.com/firmware
> 
> This is not related to capacitors. That was incorrect information.


Thanks for the reply.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Any way to stop the mad clicking when changing songs? It's the only problem I've got with the Bifrost 2 so far, but God, this is an annoying one.


----------



## jnak00

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Any way to stop the mad clicking when changing songs? It's the only problem I've got with the Bifrost 2 so far, but God, this is an annoying one.



I think that clicking happens when the Bifrost switches bitrates.  So, you could make all your music the same bitrate.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

jnak00 said:


> I think that clicking happens when the Bifrost switches bitrates.  So, you could make all your music the same bitrate.



I wanted to allow Tidal full control over it, but not allowing it and setting the sound output to 16/44 is the only way as far as I can tell. That's why I'd like someone else's input in case they know of a fix that would allow me to listen to different sample rates without going through the mad clicking. There are so many dacs that don't click, how come Schiit has never taken care of it. If others can do, so can they.


----------



## Sean H (Mar 4, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I wanted to allow Tidal full control over it, but not allowing it and setting the sound output to 16/44 is the only way as far as I can tell. That's why I'd like someone else's input in case they know of a fix that would allow me to listen to different sample rates without going through the mad clicking. There are so many dacs that don't click, how come Schiit has never taken care of it. If others can do, so can they.



You have it right. It's unlocking and then relocking if the sampling rate if the recording changes. No clicking occurs if the current track you are listening to is the same as the next track when the new track starts. Turning off exclusive mode does fix this as you said. Sorry, dude. There are other DAC's that do click when relocking the signal as well. I own three DAC's and two of the three click. I personally don't even notice anymore but I understand your frustration. Why it has to be this way, I am not sure to be honest.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2020)

Complete wild-ass guess alert:

I'm not home right now to try, but have you tried just setting Tidal to HiFi (CD quality) level (as opposed to MQA) and also setting the max bit rate in Windows sound properties to 16/44.1 CD bitrate?  If you use Hifi level in Tidal, all should be 16/44.1 playback and if the Tidal is relinquishing exclusive-mode control back to Windows in-between tracks, it may be clocking at the Windows set bit-rate and then clocking again back at the Tidal song's bitrate.  Give it a try and report back or I'll try it when I get home.

** Closed back HPs work a treat at minimizing the clicking.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Ripper2860 said:


> Complete wild-ass guess alert:
> 
> I'm not home right now to try, but have you tired just setting Tidal to HiFi level (as opposed to MQA) and also setting the max bit rate in Windows sound properties to 16/44.1.  If you use Hifi in Tidal, all should be 16/44.1 playback and if the playback is relinquishing exclusive-mode control back to Windows in-between tracks, it may be re-clocking at the Windows set bit-rate and then clocking again back at the Tidal song's bitrate.  Give it a try and report back or I'll try it when I get home.



I’m not home either. It arrived at my office and I put it up with the Drop 789 that I have here just because I wanted to have an idea of this pairing capability. Here I have a mac, but the Bifrost will stay at home being used 100% of the time with the Asgard 3 on a Windows 10 platform. I’ll see how it goes when I get there. I managed to stop the clicking here, but I have to relinquish the option to hear higher sample rates. Not sure if I can hear the difference though...


----------



## xcom

Unlike others I like to know my dac is doing its job  

It did annoyed me in the beginning, but than I looked at the positive side. That was 4yrs ago  and to this day, I love my Schiiti ass setup


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2020)

I'll try it when I get home, as well.  I typically listen to complete albums, but I agree that the clicking between songs on Playlists can get a bit annoying at first, but one does get used to it. If that's the worst thing I can say about my DAC...  

Note:  My preference is not to use MQA for several reasons, but foremost is the fact that it is a lossy protocol and I don't like that.


----------



## Ripper2860

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> B-stock Bifrost 2 is now $639



Hmmmm.  Was $689 and is now $639.  @Jason Stoddard really has to work on his penmanship and quit making his 3s look like 8s .


----------



## Sean H (Mar 4, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> Note:  My preference is not to use MQA for several reasons, but foremost the fact that it is a lossy protocol and I don't like that.



I know there is a debate about this. I personally like the MQA a lot regardless of the lossy protocol. If I assign exclusive mode to my Mac's built in output (Audio Midi Setup), instead of the Bifrost 2, I can see Tidal changing the sample rate in the Midi app which is usually 44.1, 88.2 or 96. Personally I can usually tell right away if a track is 96 or 44.1 and tend to play a little game when listening to a random mix and peak over at the Midi app to see if I'm right and I am 9 out of 10 times. To my ears MQA sounds noticeably better with a more laid back, realistic, natural, fleshier quality with more air and res.


----------



## jnak00

I will admit, the clicking was a bit off-putting at first but now I only notice it when I plug my Surface dock connector in, which causes it to click.  You might get used to it over time.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

jnak00 said:


> I will admit, the clicking was a bit off-putting at first but now I only notice it when I plug my Surface dock connector in, which causes it to click.  You might get used to it over time.



Tell that to my girl.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin (Mar 4, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> Complete wild-ass guess alert:
> 
> I'm not home right now to try, but have you tried just setting Tidal to HiFi (CD quality) level (as opposed to MQA) and also setting the max bit rate in Windows sound properties to 16/44.1 CD bitrate?  If you use Hifi level in Tidal, all should be 16/44.1 playback and if the Tidal is relinquishing exclusive-mode control back to Windows in-between tracks, it may be clocking at the Windows set bit-rate and then clocking again back at the Tidal song's bitrate.  Give it a try and report back or I'll try it when I get home.
> 
> ** Closed back HPs work a treat at minimizing the clicking.



Your way work here at my home computer. Using hifi only and setting the Windows output sound to 16/44 does the trick, at the cost of the first MQA unfold by Tidal . At work I was having it click in between songs of the same album (only on MQA albums). I don't know if that was a MacOS thing or the internet at the office being crappy and playing tricks on me. Now I can listen to the same full MQA album without the clicks, but it's still annoying to have it click once in a while. That aside, the sound is lovely. And I just had it turned on. I expect more out of it within the next 5 days.

@Jason Stoddard says in his site that Schiit is good at saying no, and focusing on what matters only. For the sanity of people like me, please say no to these clicks on future units. Please. Get. Rid. Of. It.


----------



## Rattle

LOL. tidal and MQA what a waste of a bifrost 2.....


----------



## xcom

HumdrumPenguin said:


> For the sanity of people like me, please get rid of these clicks on future units. Please. Get. Rid. Of. It.



Nobody cares for sanity LOL.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Rattle said:


> LOL. tidal and MQA what a waste of a bifrost 2.....



Streaming allows me to discover new music every day with zero effort. Nothing beats that in my book.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 4, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Your way work here at my home computer. Using hifi only and setting the Windows output sound to 16/44 does the trick, at the cost of the first MQA unfold by Tidal . At work I was having it click in between songs of the same album (only on MQA albums). I don't know if that was a MacOS thing or the internet at the office being crappy and playing tricks on me. Now I can listen to the same full MQA album without the clicks, but it's still annoying to have it click once in a while. That aside, the sound is lovely. And I just had it turned on. I expect more out of it within the next 5 days.
> 
> @Jason Stoddard says in his site that Schiit is good at saying no, and focusing on what matters only. For the sanity of people like me, please say no to these clicks on future units. Please. Get. Rid. Of. It.



Worked for me at home, as well!!   No more clicking between different cuts on a playlist.  Woohoo.  A blind squirrel does find an acorn every now and then.  

Honestly, I never really bought into the whole 1st unfold thing with MQA.  All it is doing is using a lossy compression to allow a higher bitrate to be transmitted at the bandwidth cost of a lower bitrate on 1st level.  Now if I had an MQA DAC and could take advantage of 2nd level MQA benefits, I might feel differently, but since I do not have one and since I am not a music provider delivering music to 10s of 1000s or millions of folks, transmitting 96 or 192 bitrate files at the bandwidth used to deliver 44.1 files doesn't really benefit me.  I know others feel differently, but to me HiFi 44.1 is more than enough.  I leave the Hi-Res stuff to Qobuz or to my local streaming server.  To each their own.  



HumdrumPenguin said:


> Streaming allows me to discover new music every day with zero effort. Nothing beats that in my book.



I'm right there with you on the MQA part, but the Tidal part -- not so much.  Sure Qobuz sounds better, but their catalog is not as extensive (at least for the US) and until Amazon HD supports WASAPI Exclusive Mode for bit-perfect playback, it's not truly catering to the serious audio listening community.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Ripper2860 said:


> Worked for me at home, as well!!   No more clicking between different cuts on a playlist.  Woohoo.  A blind squirrel does find an acorn every now and then.
> 
> Honestly, I never really bought into the whole 1st unfold thing with MQA.  All it is doing is using a lossy compression to allow a higher bitrate to be transmitted at the bandwidth cost of a lower bitrate on 1st level.  Now if I had an MQA DAC and could take advantage of 2nd level MQA benefits, I might feel differently, but since I do not have one and since I am not a music provider delivering music to 10s of 1000s or millions of folks, transmitting 96 or 192 bitrate files at the bandwidth used to deliver 44.1 files doesn't really benefit me.  I know others feel differently, but to me HiFi 44.1 is more than enough.  I leave the Hi-Res stuff to Qobuz or to my local streaming server.  To each their own.
> 
> ...



There's this guy from another forum that I talk to once in a while, and according to him and his gear list, he owns audio equipment that totals about USD650,000.00. He has a mastering studio at his home. Anyway, he claims to not hear barely any difference between only the first fold from Tidal, and a complete unfold with an MQA capable DAC. If you are happy with what you get on HiFi and don't care about the first fold done by Tidal, than MQA is a thought that you don't need to have on your mind ever again, no matter what gear you have.


----------



## blacklava

Is the mimby supposed to click as bifrost? Never heard any clicks with my unit, but I'm planning a bifrost2 upgrade so...


----------



## antdroid

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> B-stock Bifrost 2 is now $639



Oh hmm I just bought one at new price because B-Stock was 689 when I looked. Oh well. Would have been nice to save a few bucks, but no biggie i guess.


----------



## Baten

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> B-stock Bifrost 2 is now $639


That's cool! 689 made no sense


----------



## xcom

xcom said:


> I have a Gen 1 with updated Unison USB and Multibit. Is it worth upgrading to Gen 2?



BumP to this question


----------



## jnak00

blacklava said:


> Is the mimby supposed to click as bifrost? Never heard any clicks with my unit, but I'm planning a bifrost2 upgrade so...



No the Modi Multibit does not click like the Bifrost 2.


----------



## Bastianpp

Ripper2860 said:


> Worked for me at home, as well!!   No more clicking between different cuts on a playlist.  Woohoo.  A blind squirrel does find an acorn every now and then.
> 
> Honestly, I never really bought into the whole 1st unfold thing with MQA.  All it is doing is using a lossy compression to allow a higher bitrate to be transmitted at the bandwidth cost of a lower bitrate on 1st level.  Now if I had an MQA DAC and could take advantage of 2nd level MQA benefits, I might feel differently, but since I do not have one and since I am not a music provider delivering music to 10s of 1000s or millions of folks, transmitting 96 or 192 bitrate files at the bandwidth used to deliver 44.1 files doesn't really benefit me.  I know others feel differently, but to me HiFi 44.1 is more than enough.  I leave the Hi-Res stuff to Qobuz or to my local streaming server.  To each their own.
> 
> ...


????


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Rattle said:


> LOL. tidal and MQA what a waste of a bifrost 2.....



Care to elaborate?


----------



## Ripper2860

Bastianpp said:


> ????



Oooops.  Quoted the wrong post, I guess.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

xcom said:


> BumP to this question



I’m always hesitant to answer these types of recommendation questions, but I used to have a Bifrost MB with Gen 5 USB and now have a Bifrost 2 that I’ve owned for about 1 month. 
Since you’ve already installed Unison, I don’t think I would really feel the need to upgrade unless you need the balanced output and/or remote control. 
That’s just my opinion, I’m sure there are those who would advocate for the upgrade. 

If you do upgrade, hurry up and do it soon to take advantage of the $100 discount


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> I’m always hesitant to answer these types of recommendation questions, but I used to have a Bifrost MB with Gen 5 USB and now have a Bifrost 2 that I’ve owned for about 1 month.
> Since you’ve already installed Unison, I don’t think I would really feel the need to upgrade unless you need the balanced output and/or remote control.
> That’s just my opinion, I’m sure there are those who would advocate for the upgrade.
> 
> If you do upgrade, hurry up and do it soon to take advantage of the $100 discount



I've read somewhere that people had trouble listening to any differences between the Bifrost and Modi Multibit, but the difference was substantial once the Bifrost 2 came out. The upgrade may be well worth it really. I've never heard the original, but the second one is so good. 

On a side note... what surprises me even more is the HD6XX I have. This thing scaling capability is insane. Every time I upgrade my gear I have the same feeling with these cans.


----------



## Sean H

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I've never heard the original, but the second one is so good.



Glad to hear that! It really is, isn't it? It's incredibly good. Fantastic tone and can't believe the resolution and gigantic soundstage. Most of my comments are from two-channel speaker listening but it sounds great with my tube headphone amp as well. It just crushes my previous DAC.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> Glad to hear that! It really is, isn't it? It's incredibly good. Fantastic tone and can't believe the resolution and gigantic soundstage. Most of my comments are from two-channel speaker listening but it sounds great with my tube headphone amp as well. It just crushes my previous DAC.



Yeah. I normally form a final opinion over a product only after a month of use, but this buddy here is looking promising. The stack has better synergy than with the Drop THX 789.


----------



## adamos

I bought a Bifrost 2 about six weeks ago and I’m really happy with it so far. Going through this thread was very helpful in making the decision so I just wanted to say thanks to all. I was initially using it with a THX AAA 789 and HD 6XX which definitely sounds good but I just got a Liquid Platinum and I’m even happier with that combination. Excellent DAC.

Also @HumdrumPenguin ’s photo looked cool so I thought I’d share one too.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

adamos said:


> I bought a Bifrost 2 about six weeks ago and I’m really happy with it so far. Going through this thread was very helpful in making the decision so I just wanted to say thanks to all. I was initially using it with a THX AAA 789 and HD 6XX which definitely sounds good but I just got a Liquid Platinum and I’m even happier with that combination. Excellent DAC.
> 
> Also @HumdrumPenguin ’s photo looked cool so I thought I’d share one too.



I don't like the sound of the HD6XX with the 789 (I also have one). It's kinda funny that you have exactly the same gear as me aside from the Liquid Platinum, which by another coincidence I've also been looking into for a while.


----------



## adamos

HumdrumPenguin said:


> I don't like the sound of the HD6XX with the 789 (I also have one). It's kinda funny that you have exactly the same gear as me aside from the Liquid Platinum, which by another coincidence I've also been looking into for a while.



I was also very curious about the Lyr 3 but I’d been reading a lot of good things about the LP with Schiit Multibit DACs and since I’d gotten a balanced HD 6XX cable to use with the 789 I preferred going with a balanced tube hybrid.


----------



## Mkoll

The Bifrost 2 + Liquid Platinum is my current combo as well. Great synergy and my endgame for now. I think I'd have to spend twice as much or more to get any real improvement, and even then you're heavily into the law of diminishing returns at this level.


----------



## magi44ken

LeMoviedave said:


> Just thought I would share some quick... thoughts.  I recently had the chance to compare the Bifrost 2 with the Topping D90, and it was interesting.  Both were given some warmup time, and both were fed from my music server via USB.  Both used balanced out to my SP200.  There is plenty to recommend both of them.  The Bifrost is the warmer of the two, but not unpleasantly so.  It was't as warm as I was expecting, actually.  The topping was a touch more neutral with a bit more sparkle up top.  I also think it had the firmer bottom.  It was close for me, but ultimately, I went with the Topping for the fact that most of the music I listen to is classical, and the D90 had a noticabley more airy and 3d soundstage.  Even with rock music and closed heaadphones, you could hear the larger soundstage.  If that wasn't the case, I might have gone with the Bifrost as the warranty and modular design are awesome.



Thanks for the comparison. Can you describe how natural and real are the timbre on D90 with the new AK4499 chip when listening to your classical music? Does it sound real enough? How close it is to the Bifrost 2? One thing that I don't like about the Sabre chip is the timbre sounds more digital or artificial to me.


----------



## blacklava

adamos said:


> I bought a Bifrost 2 about six weeks ago and I’m really happy with it so far. Going through this thread was very helpful in making the decision so I just wanted to say thanks to all. I was initially using it with a THX AAA 789 and HD 6XX which definitely sounds good but I just got a Liquid Platinum and I’m even happier with that combination. Excellent DAC.
> 
> Also @HumdrumPenguin ’s photo looked cool so I thought I’d share one too.


Can i ask what's the model/brand of that tiny cute speaker?


----------



## 478773

Jason Stoddard said:


> You need the new firmware. It's available on the site at schiit.com/firmware
> 
> This is not related to capacitors. That was incorrect information.



Hi @Jason Stoddard  -  about two weeks in of receiving my Bifrost 2 - enjoying it  so much, it even has me playing less vinyl! 

I do have a question - Are there any utilities that can be used to check the FW version? or maybe even check the status of the device? ( I mean something like, when playing using TOSLink or Coax as source, would love to be able to go the my computer and thru USB query what is the sample rate and bit depth at the active inputs) 

You have something like that? And follow up - if you decide to support inputs higher than 192/24 - would that be FW update or would the DAC have to be sent back?

Thnx!

v


----------



## tafens

Sean H said:


> Glad to hear that! It really is, isn't it? It's incredibly good. Fantastic tone and can't believe the resolution and gigantic soundstage. Most of my comments are from two-channel speaker listening but it sounds great with my tube headphone amp as well. It just crushes my previous DAC.



I’ve had my Bifrost2 for half a year now, and I’m still amazed how good it sounds, especially the spaciousness, but also the clarity and separation.
Using it with Lyr3 and HD6XX headphones.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

blacklava said:


> Can i ask what's the model/brand of that tiny cute speaker?



Audioengine A2+. The same as mine. Quite popular a few years ago.


----------



## Wes S

adamos said:


> I bought a Bifrost 2 about six weeks ago and I’m really happy with it so far. Going through this thread was very helpful in making the decision so I just wanted to say thanks to all. I was initially using it with a THX AAA 789 and HD 6XX which definitely sounds good but I just got a Liquid Platinum and I’m even happier with that combination. Excellent DAC.
> 
> Also @HumdrumPenguin ’s photo looked cool so I thought I’d share one too.


Nice combo!


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Could someone with a black Bifrost 2 please confirm that the black model comes with a silver remote controller, and not a black one? My unit didn’t come with a controller, and I requested one in black from Schiit, but I received it in silver. I just wanted to know for sure if silver is the only option.


----------



## Sean H (Mar 6, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Could someone with a black Bifrost 2 please confirm that the black model comes with a silver remote controller, and not a black one? My unit didn’t come with a controller, and I requested one in black from Schiit, but I received it in silver. I just wanted to know for sure if silver is the only option.



I've got a black model and the remote is silver. I don't think they have a black version. Would be awesome if they did. Your unit didn't ship with a remote??


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> I've got a black model and the remote is silver. I don't think they have a black version. Would be awesome if they did. Your unit didn't ship with a remote??



Nope. My unit arrived Wednesday with just the Bifrost and the PYST interconnect cable. I contacted them and they shipped one to me without any extra costs, so it was fine. I got it today.


----------



## antdroid

The Bifrost 2 just arrived this morning and I've had a few hours with it now using it versus the RME ADI-2 DAC v1.

*Setup for A-B testing.*
Both use the same Monoprice USB cables to my Intel NUC PC directly. I used the Schiit Asgard 3 as my headphone amp, and on the input, I used RCA Y-Adapters to let both inputs feed into the amp from the two DACs at the same time.

I then volume matched, by ear (though I guess I could have just used my measurement rigs, but lazy) the RME output to the Bifrost 2 output.

Then I listened using the ZMF Verite open-back and the Hidition Viento-R IEMs.

*First impressions:*

There is very little differences between the two was my first impression. And then I listened to a bit more songs and rewinded and re-started between tracks. Quickly switching between USB outputs in Windows 10 and I noticed very subtle differences between the two DACs.






The RME sounded just slightly more aggressive in the way the qdc Anole VX sounds a tad aggressive compared to something like the 64 Audio U12T though not as discernable as those two are.

The RME just sounded more forward, especially in the upper-midrange or lower treble areas. The Bifrost 2 has just a slightly more deeper soundstage, which put Stevie Nick's voice just slightly fainter and deeper than the RME on "Dreams."

On Tool's Pneuma, I found the differences of how cymbals and hats and other random things Dany Carey clacks on to sound discernibly different between the two DACs. The Bifrost 2 sounded more natural in those hits -- with more natural decay and timbre at least to me. The RME sounded fine, but just a little more edgy, which may be the best word to describe it.

On many songs, I couldnt determine any differences between the two. They sound quite similar. I tried to find differences on Radiohead's Paranoid Android, but didn't hear anything absolute, for example, besides the slightly different intimacy -- with the Bifrost being less forward.

Of course, the RME has some really nice features and fancy visualizers and screen, as well as volume control on the remote, so there's definitely a place for it -- not to mention it has an amp stage for both headphones and IEMs -- but for the very short few hours I've had both, I think the Bifrost 2 is more natural sounding in the ever so small amounts (the last few % that we talk about).


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

antdroid said:


> The Bifrost 2 just arrived this morning and I've had a few hours with it now using it versus the RME ADI-2 DAC v1.
> 
> *Setup for A-B testing.*
> Both use the same Monoprice USB cables to my Intel NUC PC directly. I used the Schiit Asgard 3 as my headphone amp, and on the input, I used RCA Y-Adapters to let both inputs feed into the amp from the two DACs at the same time.
> ...



I've had mine since Wednesday. I feel like it sounds less dark now from when I first turned it on. I preferred the darker tone tough. Try comparing them again in 5 days and see if your thoughts change. I'd be very interested to hear your comments on that since my amp is also the Asgard 3, and my second dac option was the new version of the ADI-2, which many claim to not hear any differences between it and the first version.


----------



## Currawong

For something different, I've done a Modi Multibit + Magni 3 vs. Bifrost 2 + Asgard 3 comparison.


----------



## genck

Currawong said:


> For something different, I've done a Modi Multibit + Magni 3 vs. Bifrost 2 + Asgard 3 comparison.



You called the Asgard 3 and Bifrost2 a $550 setup, wrong. lol try $899.


----------



## antdroid

genck said:


> You called the Asgard 3 and Bifrost2 a $550 setup, wrong. lol try $899.



He said $550 more expensive.


----------



## genck

antdroid said:


> He said $550 more expensive.


Oh, he did. haha


----------



## caLeonard

@Currawong how does the sound of the Bifrost 2 + Asgard 3 combo differ from Bifrost 2 + Lyr 3? Which one did you prefer?


----------



## tafens

caLeonard said:


> @Currawong how does the sound of the Bifrost 2 + Asgard 3 combo differ from Bifrost 2 + Lyr 3? Which one did you prefer?



That would be very interesting to see or read about. I wrote about my own experience a bit back in the Asgard3 thread, as I have the Bifrost2 as well as Lyr3 and Asgard3, but other views would certainly be interesting and I probably didn’t find all differences either


----------



## Currawong

I think it's somewhat dependant on the tube. Mine came with the Tung Sol upgrade. More or less the Lyr 3 has better depth whereas the Asgard 3 sounds a bit flatter. The Bifrost doesn't sound quite as wide and open as the Yggy, but is a touch smooth, which makes it easy to listen with. For me, the Bifrost with either amp is a pleasant touch on the smooth side.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

genck said:


> Oh, he did. haha



I understood the same as you when I first listened to it. I'd just say total price for both to avoid confusion.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Can confirm the remote silver.

Edit: Should have continued the thread instead of replying to the latest update in my inbox.


----------



## Robosculpts

Would y'all recommend a Lyr 3 with a Bifrost for a LCD2 pre fazor?


----------



## StormMeows

Hi everyone,

New user here and pretty new to amps/DACs, etc (I am an avid home theater watcher though).

I just received the Bifrost 2 and have a few questions that I hope you guys can answer.

For comparsion, I have had the SU-8, RME ADI-2 DAC, and Topping D70. They have all been ran to the Monoprice THX AAA 887 Amp.

*The other DACs that I have had typically go up much higher (32 bit/768 in Windows 10). This one goes up to 32/192 via USB. Does this really matter? I figured for $699 that this one would also go up higher when I am under "Sound Settings" in Windows 10. I have also read that many of you select 24 Bit/192hz or 24 Bit/44.1 in Windows 10. Which is the best to set this to in the drop down menu?*

*The other Windows 10 question I have revolves around the USB, in particular when powering on my PC or waking it up from Sleep Mode. Every time I power on my PC or wake it up, there is no sound coming out to my headphones. The only way to fix it is to either unplug the USB from the Bifrost 2 or cycle between the inputs back to USB and then sound works again. Is there a setting within Windows that will fix this? I have my PC set on High Performance mode so this usually isn't an issue.* 

I want to point out that I mainly PC game/listen to music on Spotify/YouTube using HD700 headphones (I have had the HD 800S as well, but liked the HD700, especially for gaming).

Compared to the other DACs that I have had, I feel like this Bitfrost 2 has a deeper/wider soundstage and just as much detail as the RME ADI-2 DAC. I was originally using that DAC as an all in one, but I prefer to have the THX amp + a dedicated DAC (peace of mind).

Finally, does anyone know if using my SE out on my THX amp and balanced cables to connect the amp to DAC is OK? I just don't want to damage anything while my balanced custom cable is made for the HD700 headphones. 

Overall, I am very impressed with this THX 887 + Bifrost 2 and do not feel like it is as bright as something like the SU-8 DAC I had. I am sure I need time to break this DAC in though since I just received it today. I hope you guys can help with the few questions I asked. 

Thanks for your input!


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Currawong said:


> I think it's somewhat dependant on the tube. Mine came with the Tung Sol upgrade. More or less the Lyr 3 has better depth whereas the Asgard 3 sounds a bit flatter. The Bifrost doesn't sound quite as wide and open as the Yggy, but is a touch smooth, which makes it easy to listen with. For me, the Bifrost with either amp is a pleasant touch on the smooth side.



What are the chances of you coming up with another video comparing this time the Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2 against the Mjolnir and Gungnir multibit with Unison USB? I was curious to know how much I'd be losing for not had gone all the way in.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

StormMeows said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> New user here and pretty new to amps/DACs, etc (I am an avid home theater watcher though).
> 
> ...



R2R dacs go up to 24/192 as I recall, be those based on discrete components or chips (like the Bifrost 2). You really don't need any sample rate beyond this. Even this much is silly in my opinion (and I'll say "my opinion" so to not get into a never ending debacle that can overtake the thread). To help support it, and quoting direct from Schiit's website: "...leaving aside the fact that there probably ain’t nowhere near 24 usable bits in any recorded music, no matter the audiophile cred...". Don't worry, your music is safe. And more on the subject, Spotify has only lossless music that is, to my ears, far from the quality I get from 320kbps converted from my CDs. In other words, you feed bad music to your dac and no matter how good your gear may be, it won't do miracles.

I was going to point you out to power management issues on the fact that the Bifrost 2 is going into sleep and not coming back. Seeing that you use it on High Performance already, I'd tinker with the advanced settings for High Performance. My computer never sleeps, I just set to turn off the display at 15 min without usage. This will likely solve the problem for you. Computers are very power efficient nowadays, especially if you have a high end PSU (80+ Platinum / Titanium). Your bills won't go up like crazy.

The amp on the ADI2 is very meh for inefficient or high impedance cans , so use a proper amp if you can.

Just like the Drop 789 I have, your Monoprice 887 is not fully balanced. You still benefit from balanced interconnects anyway by lowering the floor, but in this case it is kinda pointless due to the THX tech inside, since the floor is already very ultra super duper low. You can use balanced interconnects and the single ended output without any damage to this amp or headphones.

PS.: leave the Bifrost 2 always on.


----------



## StormMeows (Mar 9, 2020)

HumdrumPenguin said:


> R2R dacs go up to 24/192 as I recall, be those based on discrete components or chips (like the Bifrost 2). You really don't need any sample rate beyond this. Even this much is silly in my opinion (and I'll say "my opinion" so to not get into a never ending debacle that can overtake the thread). To help support it, and quoting direct from Schiit's website: "...leaving aside the fact that there probably ain’t nowhere near 24 usable bits in any recorded music, no matter the audiophile cred...". Don't worry, your music is safe. And more on the subject, Spotify has only lossless music that is, to my ears, far from the quality I get from 320kbps converted from my CDs. In other words, you feed bad music to your dac and no matter how good your gear may be, it won't do miracles.
> 
> I was going to point you out to power management issues on the fact that the Bifrost 2 is going into sleep and not coming back. Seeing that you use it on High Performance already, I'd tinker with the advanced settings for High Performance. My computer never sleeps, I just set to turn off the display at 15 min without usage. This will likely solve the problem for you. Computers are very power efficient nowadays, especially if you have a high end PSU (80+ Platinum / Titanium). Your bills won't go up like crazy.
> 
> ...


Hi there!

Thanks for taking time to reply to my post and explaining the bitrate in depth. So it sounds like in Windows 10 I need to select 24 bit/192 for the audio on the drop down menu?

As for leaving the PC on all of the time and not shutting it down or putting it to sleep. I can't do this because my PC is in my movie room so the bright LEDS will blind me while watching movies, lol. Is there not a fix for the Bifrost2 being able to stay on all of the time but not have to switch the inputs to get sound out of it? This is after I put the computer to sleep or shut down the computer and keep the Bifrost2 on.

Do you stack your THX 789 with the Bifrost2? I'm thinking I should probably put my THX amp on top of the Bifrost, even though it is longer so that the feet create a separation between the 2 units for less heat?

Thanks again for replying and hopefully I can get to the bottom of how to turn off my pc and not have to "reset" the DAC every time.


----------



## Sean H

HumdrumPenguin said:


> R2R dacs go up to 24/192 as I recall, be those based on discrete components or chips (like the Bifrost 2).



The R2R chipsets that Schiit uses in their DAC's do up to 24/192. Many other discrete or chip based R2R DAC's go even higher via USB, like the Denafrips Ares II for example can go up to 24/1536, the Airist does 24/384, Soekris DAC1541 does 24/384, etc, etc. Just FYI.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

StormMeows said:


> Hi there!
> 
> Thanks for taking time to reply to my post and explaining the bitrate in depth. So it sounds like in Windows 10 I need to select 24 bit/192 for the audio on the drop down menu?
> 
> ...



That wasn't really any in depth explanation on bit rate. Other's here can go on and on if you really want the ins and outs of it. I personally set my sound output on Windows at 16/44. Whenever I'm not listening via Tidal stream, I play some of my flac files, which are 16/44. As far as I know, there will always be re sampling if your music file and Windows output sample rate are not exactly the same. In Tidal at least, you can set the software to take full control over your DAC. That makes Tidal set the correct output sample on your Bifrost 2 without you touching a finger, for every song you play. The annoying part is that the relay will click every time there's a switch in sample rate.

I don't use the THX 789 with the Bifrost 2, it stays in my office. My home headphone setup consists of a stack of Asgard 3 (top) and Bifrost 2 (bottom).

Mess around with the advanced settings on high performance and see if you find something that may work for you. I really don't know that one aside from my already given suggestion (leave the PC on whenever using it, and turn it off whenever not, instead of leaving on sleep mode).


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Sean H said:


> The R2R chipsets that Schiit uses in their DAC's do up to 24/192. Many other discrete or chip based R2R DAC's go even higher via USB, like the Denafrips Ares II for example can go up to 24/1536, the Airist does 24/384, Soekris DAC1541 does 24/384, etc, etc. Just FYI.



Lol, yeah. I must be eating rocks. Don't know why I said that after hours of research on R2R gear. I stand by what I said that I think it will make literally zero difference though.


----------



## StormMeows

HumdrumPenguin said:


> R2R dacs go up to 24/192 as I recall, be those based on discrete components or chips (like the Bifrost 2). You really don't need any sample rate beyond this. Even this much is silly in my opinion (and I'll say "my opinion" so to not get into a never ending debacle that can overtake the thread). To help support it, and quoting direct from Schiit's website: "...leaving aside the fact that there probably ain’t nowhere near 24 usable bits in any recorded music, no matter the audiophile cred...". Don't worry, your music is safe. And more on the subject, Spotify has only lossless music that is, to my ears, far from the quality I get from 320kbps converted from my CDs. In other words, you feed bad music to your dac and no matter how good your gear may be, it won't do miracles.
> 
> I was going to point you out to power management issues on the fact that the Bifrost 2 is going into sleep and not coming back. Seeing that you use it on High Performance already, I'd tinker with the advanced settings for High Performance. My computer never sleeps, I just set to turn off the display at 15 min without usage. This will likely solve the problem for you. Computers are very power efficient nowadays, especially if you have a high end PSU (80+ Platinum / Titanium). Your bills won't go up like crazy.
> 
> ...





HumdrumPenguin said:


> That wasn't really any in depth explanation on bit rate. Other's here can go on and on if you really want the ins and outs of it. I personally set my sound output on Windows at 16/44. Whenever I'm not listening via Tidal stream, I play some of my flac files, which are 16/44. As far as I know, there will always be re sampling if your music file and Windows output sample rate are not exactly the same. In Tidal at least, you can set the software to take full control over your DAC. That makes Tidal set the correct output sample on your Bifrost 2 without you touching a finger, for every song you play. The annoying part is that the relay will click every time there's a switch in sample rate.
> 
> I don't use the THX 789 with the Bifrost 2, it stays in my office. My home headphone setup consists of a stack of Asgard 3 (top) and Bifrost 2 (bottom).
> 
> Mess around with the advanced settings on high performance and see if you find something that may work for you. I really don't know that one aside from my already given suggestion (leave the PC on whenever using it, and turn it off whenever not, instead of leaving on sleep mode).


I just meant that you explained the bitrate enough for me to understand easily. So you set yours to 24/44.1 in Windows 10 and then if you play a song that's a higher mix (24/192) for example, then the Bifrost2 will click and adjust to the higher mix? Why not just set Windows to the highest the Bifrost2 outputs 24/192? I'm confused, lol sorry. 

Thanks


----------



## theveterans

StormMeows said:


> I just meant that you explained the bitrate enough for me to understand easily. So you set yours to 24/44.1 in Windows 10 and then if you play a song that's a higher mix (24/192) for example, then the Bifrost2 will click and adjust to the higher mix? Why not just set Windows to the highest the Bifrost2 outputs 24/192? I'm confused, lol sorry.
> 
> Thanks



Unless you're okay with a bunch of relay clicks when you play music to an app that uses WASAPI interface, you can set it to 24/192 KHz. I myself just utilize Schiit's burrito filter to the max utilization by setting the Windows output to 16/44.1 KHz for shared output and WASAPI for Hi-Res files


----------



## StormMeows

theveterans said:


> Unless you're okay with a bunch of relay clicks when you play music to an app that uses WASAPI interface, you can set it to 24/192 KHz. I myself just utilize Schiit's burrito filter to the max utilization by setting the Windows output to 16/44.1 KHz for shared output and WASAPI for Hi-Res files


Hi there, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what WASAPI is. Is that something I need to download? It sounds like some type of Windows 10 interface? I mainly listen to music files on my PC, use Spotify and YouTube. So you're saying I will have much more relay clicks with 24/192 vs 16/44.1? What's Schiits burrito filter without going into too much detail? I just want the widest most accurate soundstage that I can get out of my headphones for gaming, lol. Sorry for the newb questions.


----------



## theveterans

StormMeows said:


> Hi there, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what WASAPI is. Is that something I need to download? It sounds like some type of Windows 10 interface? I mainly listen to music files on my PC, use Spotify and YouTube. So you're saying I will have much more relay clicks with 24/192 vs 16/44.1? What's Schiits burrito filter without going into too much detail? I just want the widest most accurate soundstage that I can get out of my headphones for gaming, lol. Sorry for the newb questions.



WASAPI is a component of windows that lets the sample rate of the music file that is being played match the output to the DAC. The point is that the music stream bypasses the Windows mixer so that the files are sent bit-perfect. If you're not using a program that has WASAPI feature then no relay clicks should happen as all of the music files are upsampled by Windows mixer to 24/192. Schiit MB DACs are oversampling DACs and Schiit has their own custom made oversampling filter which takes the original 16/44.1 or 16/44.8 samples to 8x oversampling without "throwing away" the original samples (DS DACs are noise shaping DACs for comparison https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-017.pdf). For Schiit MB DACs, it's best to have the full 8x oversampling rather than letting Windows mixer oversample to 192 KHz (prior to the DAC) and Schiit's filter will only do 2x oversampling (since it's receiving 4x the original sample rate from Windows mixer already) https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Bit-perfect_Audio

I prefer to go to detail rather than a wishy washy response. TLDR. You can set the output to 24/192, but you won't take advantage of the full benefits of the Schiit's digital filter in this manner. As for relay, it'll only click if the music you're playing through WASAPI is different than your windows sample rate that is indicated on your sound settings.


----------



## StormMeows

theveterans said:


> WASAPI is a component of windows that lets the sample rate of the music file that is being played match the output to the DAC. The point is that the music stream bypasses the Windows mixer so that the files are sent bit-perfect. If you're not using a program that has WASAPI feature then no relay clicks should happen as all of the music files are upsampled by Windows mixer to 24/192. Schiit MB DACs are oversampling DACs and Schiit has their own custom made oversampling filter which takes the original 16/44.1 or 16/44.8 samples to 8x oversampling without "throwing away" the original samples (DS DACs are noise shaping DACs for comparison https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-017.pdf). For Schiit MB DACs, it's best to have the full 8x oversampling rather than letting Windows mixer oversample to 192 KHz (prior to the DAC) and Schiit's filter will only do 2x oversampling (since it's receiving 4x the original sample rate from Windows mixer already) https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Bit-perfect_Audio
> 
> I prefer to go to detail rather than a wishy washy response. TLDR. You can set the output to 24/192, but you won't take advantage of the full benefits of the Schiit's digital filter in this manner. As for relay, it'll only click if the music you're playing through WASAPI is different than your windows sample rate that is indicated on your sound settings.


Thank you for taking the time to go into detail!

So for things like PC gaming, YouTube, Spotify and music files on my computer, should I just set Windows to 16/44.1? I want the sound that the Bifrost2 outputs to be as natural as possible that schiit intended. There is also a 32/44.1 option in Windows 10. Please advise. Thanks again for your expertise on the matter. I do not currently use a program that uses WASAPI.


----------



## theveterans

Either 24/44.1 or 24/48 (you need to do research if most games have 48 KHz sample rate) is what I would recommend, and the choice is more dependent on the media you use. Both options will fully take advantage of Schiit's burrito filter. If you like a lot of YouTube listening, I'd recommend to set the audio to 24/48 KHz instead since YouTube streams at 48 KHz sample rate:









Hope that helps, but my opinion is that you're not making anything worse by setting the sound output to either 24/44.1 or 24/48


----------



## StormMeows

theveterans said:


> Either 24/44.1 or 24/48 (you need to do research if most games have 48 KHz sample rate) is what I would recommend, and the choice is more dependent on the media you use. Both options will fully take advantage of Schiit's burrito filter. If you like a lot of YouTube listening, I'd recommend to set the audio to 24/48 KHz instead since YouTube streams at 48 KHz sample rate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your help and expertise!


----------



## Reputator

StormMeows said:


> As for leaving the PC on all of the time and not shutting it down or putting it to sleep. I can't do this because my PC is in my movie room so the bright LEDS will blind me while watching movies, lol. Is there not a fix for the Bifrost2 being able to stay on all of the time but not have to switch the inputs to get sound out of it? This is after I put the computer to sleep or shut down the computer and keep the Bifrost2 on.



I don't own a Bifrost 2 and have not had this problem, but try this:

Open up the start menu and type 'power sleep settings'
Click 'Power & Sleep Settings'
On the right side of the settings window, click 'Additional power settings'
Next to whatever power setting you've chosen, click 'Change plan settings'
Then click 'Change advanced power settings'
You should see a list of expandable menus, so look for 'USB settings'
Under 'USB selective suspend setting', change it to Disabled
Restart your computer just to be sure

Let me know if that helps.


----------



## Sean H

theveterans said:


> I prefer to go to detail rather than a wishy washy response. TLDR. You can set the output to 24/192, but you won't take advantage of the full benefits of the Schiit's digital filter in this manner. As for relay, it'll only click if the music you're playing through WASAPI is different than your windows sample rate that is indicated on your sound settings.



I can't recall from that discussion the other day about Tidal, do you stream Tidal? If so, based on what you are saying here, do you then have your Tidal preferences set to stream HiFi only and not Master?


----------



## theveterans

Sean H said:


> I can't recall from that discussion the other day about Tidal, do you stream Tidal? If so, based on what you are saying here, do you then have your Tidal preferences set to stream HiFi only and not Master?



If you're using Tidal or MQA, you're still using the 1st unfold (still true to the source) so no foul no harm. The main goal is still bit-perfect so if you have Tidal Masters then set it as Master quality since the 1st unfold will still be either 88.2 or 96 KHz (still bit perfect as the unfold is of MQA algorithm and NOT from windows upsampler as it is not bit-perfect). What they meant by "studio quality" and hi-res is that the original master bit and sample rate (from the mastering studio ADC) is preserved to the original output file rather than downsampled to 16/44.1 KHz for CD copy. Schiit's burrito filter preserves original samples so all of the information from 24/192 is retained when that gets 2x oversampled to 384 KHz (using the burrito filter from the Analog Devices SHARC DSP processor)


----------



## StormMeows

Reputator said:


> I don't own a Bifrost 2 and have not had this problem, but try this:
> 
> Open up the start menu and type 'power sleep settings'
> Click 'Power & Sleep Settings'
> ...


Hey, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I actually have this feature disabled and it still doesn't fix the issue unfortunately with Windows 10. I just got the Bifrost 2 today and haven't been able to fix this. I restarted my PC a bit ago and I cant even get audio to play upon startup without turning off the Bifrost 2 completely. It's very odd. I really hope there is a fix for it. The only thing I can think of is that I'm using a 10ft USB cable and the manual states to use 2M or less. I have never had problems with longer cables so I'm not sure why it would NEED to be 2M or less. Does anyone know?

Also, does anyone PC GAME on the Bifrost2? When comparing gaming specifically so far to other DACS like the RME ADI-2, SMLSU8, Topping D70, Gaming seems to be very weak sound wise. I have the same settings that I use with these other DACS and the audio just seems really low and like I am unable to locate enemies as much compared to other DACs listed. Even if I crank up the volume, then it just gets too loud and I have to turn the volume back down. Thoughts? Is break in a real thing with this Bifrost2? I have had it for less than 24 hours so far and have kept it on this entire time. 

Thanks for any help guys!


----------



## AudioProm (Mar 10, 2020)

StormMeows said:


> Hey, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. I actually have this feature disabled and it still doesn't fix the issue unfortunately with Windows 10. I just got the Bifrost 2 today and haven't been able to fix this. I restarted my PC a bit ago and I cant even get audio to play upon startup without turning off the Bifrost 2 completely. It's very odd. I really hope there is a fix for it. The only thing I can think of is that I'm using a 10ft USB cable and the manual states to use 2M or less. I have never had problems with longer cables so I'm not sure why it would NEED to be 2M or less. Does anyone know?
> 
> Also, does anyone PC GAME on the Bifrost2? When comparing gaming specifically so far to other DACS like the RME ADI-2, SMLSU8, Topping D70, Gaming seems to be very weak sound wise. I have the same settings that I use with these other DACS and the audio just seems really low and like I am unable to locate enemies as much compared to other DACs listed. Even if I crank up the volume, then it just gets too loud and I have to turn the volume back down. Thoughts? Is break in a real thing with this Bifrost2? I have had it for less than 24 hours so far and have kept it on this entire time.
> 
> Thanks for any help guys!



Let's back up a little bit before you mess around with Windows power settings.
1. Make sure you're using the same USB port where you normally use for your other DACs. This will eliminate the possibility of you using a different USB controller in your system.
2. If you have a different system you can use to try this (notebook is ok, borrow one if you have to), give it a try and see if you can replicate the issue. This will narrow down the issue to that particular system only or it's the DAC that behaving differently from others.
3. If no 1 and 2 failed (same USB port and different system are still having the same issue), then try a different USB port. Like the one in a front of your system.
4. If no. 3 fail, go check if your motherboard has a newer BIOS revision available. Please only do this if you have previous experience with updating system BIOS or comfortable doing so. If not, grab someone who knows how to do such or skip this step.

Windows sometimes fail to recognize USB device after a cold/warm boot. This happens but not every single time.
If you did step 1-3 (at least) and you end up with the same result, then it's probably a defective unit. The chance of having this happened when your other DACs don't, using the same USB port and a different system to top it off, is very close to none.

I'm using Bifrost 2 for gaming as well. It was an upgrade from SMSL SU-8 and I have no issue with in-game volume. Just make sure Windows volume mixer is all maxed out and there's no change in your in-game volume settings.
As far as your concern on using a longer USB cable and break in, they're not a factor for the type of issues you're having. Unless it's a bad USB cable but if it works with other DACs, then you shouldn't have any issue suing the same cable. I used a 10ft USB cable with this DAC before with no issue.

Good luck!


----------



## tafens

StormMeows said:


> Do you stack your THX 789 with the Bifrost2? I'm thinking I should probably put my THX amp on top of the Bifrost, even though it is longer so that the feet create a separation between the 2 units for less heat?



The amp is probably the one generating more heat so I’d put that on top. As long as enough feet are on the Bifrost2 to make it steady. If the amp gets very hot some extra spacers are probably a good idea. That said, I have my Lyr3 tube hybrid on top with some extra spacers and that works fine.


----------



## tafens

theveterans said:


> Hope that helps, but my opinion is that you're not making anything worse by setting the sound output to either 24/44.1 or 24/48



I have my Windows machine at the office set to 24/44.1 but I worry a little that resampling down from 48 won’t be optimal as they are not multiples of each other. Most of my tracks are 16/44.1 though.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

tafens said:


> I have my Windows machine at the office set to 24/44.1 but I worry a little that resampling down from 48 won’t be optimal as they are not multiples of each other. Most of my tracks are 16/44.1 though.



By the looks of your signature, you do like Schiit stuff. How would you compare the Asgard 3 with the Lyr3, both fed from the Bifrost 2?


----------



## tafens

HumdrumPenguin said:


> By the looks of your signature, you do like Schiit stuff.



And my avatar, which is a Lyr3 with aTung-Sol reissue 6SN7GTB (that I also do like) 



HumdrumPenguin said:


> How would you compare the Asgard 3 with the Lyr3, both fed from the Bifrost 2?



Personally, I prefer the Lyr3 of the two.
The complete chain is MacBook Pro/iTunes to Bifrost2 over USB (PYST) to Lyr3/Asgard3 (also over PYST cables) to HD6XX headphones.

Using Lyr3 as the reference, I feel that the Asgard3: Has less wide/deep soundstage (more in your head). Is less engaging, less dynamic. Has less low end bass/more upper mids emphasis and is perhaps a bit more dry sounding. As usual it’s not night and day, but the differences do matter to me in the long term. Of course it is also worth mentioning that the tube used in the Lyr3 also influences the sound to some extent.

Also, before I got the Bifrost2 I used the multibit card in the Lyr3 (now in the Asgard3), and to my ears the Bifrost2 is a significant step up from the multibit card.


----------



## StormMeows

AudioProm said:


> Let's back up a little bit before you mess around with Windows power settings.
> 1. Make sure you're using the same USB port where you normally use for your other DACs. This will eliminate the possibility of you using a different USB controller in your system.
> 2. If you have a different system you can use to try this (notebook is ok, borrow one if you have to), give it a try and see if you can replicate the issue. This will narrow down the issue to that particular system only or it's the DAC that behaving differently from others.
> 3. If no 1 and 2 failed (same USB port and different system are still having the same issue), then try a different USB port. Like the one in a front of your system.
> ...



Hey there! Thanks for taking the time to respond to my concern.

I have now had the Bifrost2 for 3 days and have been trying to get to the bottom of this issue with the Bifrost not playing audio when it is left turned on and I shut down, put the computer to sleep, or restart the computer.

So I have been testing it over the last couple of days. I am able to get the Bifrost 2 to work pretty well on another Windows 10 laptop so it is something with my custom built Windows 10 i7 8700k PC.

These are the things that I have tried to resolve the issue where when I shut down, restart, or put the PC to sleep, this DAC does not play audio. 

I will note the very strange thing is that if I have my PC on for awhile after booting it up, the Bifrost 2 will EVENTUALLY start playing audio but it could be 10 minutes or 15 or 30 minutes and it will randomly start playing audio. The issue is that when you first boot up the PC after being shut down, restarted, or put into sleep, it will not play Audio out UNLESS I power off the Bifrost 2 and then power it back on. Switching inputs back to USB sometime allow Windows 10 to play audio. Again, this all worked pretty well on the other Windows 10 laptop I have.

Going back to the things I have tried. I have done all Windows 10 updates. I have uninstalled the Bifrost 2 and then reinstalled it. I have uninstalled the Windows driver for Bifrost 2 and reinstalled it by restarting the PC. I have tried USB 2.0 ports and 3.0 and 3.1 ports on my custom built Windows Professional 64 bit PC. I have removed the Bifrost 2 from Sound and then added it back. You name it, I have probably done it. The one thing I notice on the laptop that it does is when it shuts down, the Bifrost 2 clicks to symbolize that it is not connected to USB anymore. Then when the PC boots up again, it clicks to connect back to the PC. On my Windows 10 custom built PC, it does not click when I restart it, put it sleep, or shut down the PC. It just stays ON and active. 

Any other suggestions, I'm all ears. It is pretty frustrating that I can get this DAC to work with a Microsoft Surface Pro running Windows 10 ($800) but cannot get it to work with a $2500 custom built PC. I have also tried reinstalling the motherboard drivers and also have the latest BIOS update on my custom built PC from ASUS. 

The only way I can get this DAC to work after shutting down the PC is turning it off and on each time. The only small issue it has on the laptop is that YouTube will spin for a few seconds until it plays the audio. On my custom built machine, Youtube will just spin on start up and then won't play anything or any audio. Then it will play the Youtube video eventually but with no audio. 

I found this thing called "Driver Easy" that is supposed to tell you if you are missing any key drivers on your PC, but it wants me to pay for the PRO version to install the drivers altogether so I'm not really trying to do that.

Any other help would be awesome. I am stuck. I really don't want to have to power off the DAC each time, but I can do that and everything would work pretty well, but it is just so weird and I have even tried google searching this issue and there are other people out there with other DACs who have this issue as well.

Thanks for any insight .


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

StormMeows said:


> Hey there! Thanks for taking the time to respond to my concern.
> 
> I have now had the Bifrost2 for 3 days and have been trying to get to the bottom of this issue with the Bifrost not playing audio when it is left turned on and I shut down, put the computer to sleep, or restart the computer.
> 
> ...



You now know the problem is something with your pc, not the dac. Have you tried disabling on the bios usb power for when the pc is off? I remember doing it before when I the rgb of my ducky keyboard wouldn’t turn of with the pc.


----------



## StormMeows

HumdrumPenguin said:


> You now know the problem is something with your pc, not the dac. Have you tried disabling on the bios usb power for when the pc is off? I remember doing it before when I the rgb of my ducky keyboard wouldn’t turn of with the pc.


You're right that at least we know it is my PC and not the DAC. It is just very weird that when I boot up there is no audio and it takes forever to work without completely shutting off the DAC and back on. Do you know what the setting is called in BIOS? I just went through the BIOS thoroughly and do not see anything like this. There is a "turn off RGB" when not on, but that's for my motherboard. When I go into USB related BIOS settings, they are more for enable USB ports etc.


----------



## tafens

StormMeows said:


> You're right that at least we know it is my PC and not the DAC. It is just very weird that when I boot up there is no audio and it takes forever to work without completely shutting off the DAC and back on. Do you know what the setting is called in BIOS? I just went through the BIOS thoroughly and do not see anything like this. There is a "turn off RGB" when not on, but that's for my motherboard. When I go into USB related BIOS settings, they are more for enable USB ports etc.



You probably tried this already, but I haven’t seen it mentioned; did you try just unplugging the usb from the computer and replugging? Without turning off the dac.


----------



## Ripper2860

I would also try placing a powered USB hub between the PC and DAC to see if the issue persists.  Perhaps re-clocking and re-generating the signal after the PC will mitigate the issue.  If it works, it may be a cheap work-around, at least.


----------



## StormMeows

Ripper2860 said:


> I would also try placing a powered USB hub between the PC and DAC to see if the issue persists.  Perhaps re-clocking and re-generating the signal after the PC will mitigate the issue.  If it works, it may be a cheap work-around, at least.



Unfortunately I do not have a USB hub to test this. Doesn't that just connect to my PC though and would be the same experience?
The crazy thing is that I am able to use optical and it has no issues what so ever. So it is something with the USB functionality. I also just bought a gold plated USB 6 foot cable and no change at all compared to my 10 ft gold cable .


tafens said:


> You probably tried this already, but I haven’t seen it mentioned; did you try just unplugging the usb from the computer and replugging? Without turning off the dac.



Hey, yeah if I do this every time then it will work, but I would have to unplug it every time. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose and I could just switch it off instead? 

I also want to point out for any of you who have this and use it with USB, on both of my Windows 10 systems, it says "Device not migrated" when I click on "Events" under the properties of the device. "Device not migrated due to partial or ambiguous match." If you go into the speaker properties, then click on "Change Settings." It is under the Events tab. I would be interested to see if others have this Device not migrated issue as well. That seems to be something worth pointing out and could be the cause of this issue. I have tried uninstalling the driver for this Bifrost 2 as well but it doesn't fix this sound issue either. 

Finally, I want to point out that if I leave my amp and Bifrost 2 ON and restart my computer (connected via USB), there will be no sound, then sound for 1 second and then it will abruptly cut out and then the Bifrost 2 doesn't output audio. Again, the only fix is to either use Optical, which has no issues or unplug and replug it in or turn it off then turn it back on each time. 

I wonder if there is any sound differences between Optical and USB? I know Schiit recommends to use USB but this is becoming a headache and I have spent hours trying to diagnose and fix. It seems like USB works pretty well on my laptop, but it is still buggy. 

Thanks for anyone who is willing to reply or test their Bifrost 2 via USB and keeping the amp and Bifrost 2 on while restarting their PC, shutting it down, or putting it to sleep then waking it back up.


----------



## AudioProm (Mar 12, 2020)

StormMeows said:


> Unfortunately I do not have a USB hub to test this. Doesn't that just connect to my PC though and would be the same experience?
> The crazy thing is that I am able to use optical and it has no issues what so ever. So it is something with the USB functionality. I also just bought a gold plated USB 6 foot cable and no change at all compared to my 10 ft gold cable .



Optical is completely different type of implementation. It's not related to the context of issue you're having here.



StormMeows said:


> I also want to point out for any of you who have this and use it with USB, on both of my Windows 10 systems, it says "Device not migrated" when I click on "Events" under the properties of the device. "Device not migrated due to partial or ambiguous match." If you go into the speaker properties, then click on "Change Settings." It is under the Events tab. I would be interested to see if others have this Device not migrated issue as well. That seems to be something worth pointing out and could be the cause of this issue. I have tried uninstalling the driver for this Bifrost 2 as well but it doesn't fix this sound issue either.



I checked mine, the only two things listed right next to the time stamps are:
- Device configured (audioendpoint.inf)
- Device started



StormMeows said:


> I wonder if there is any sound differences between Optical and USB? I know Schiit recommends to use USB but this is becoming a headache and I have spent hours trying to diagnose and fix. It seems like USB works pretty well on my laptop, but it is still buggy.



There should be a difference but I haven't try the optical myself. One of the main point of getting Bifrost 2 is the new Unison USB which Schiit claims better than the optical and also the older USB implementation.

Check your BIOS again and look for Erp/EUP setting. Turn it on/off and see if there's any difference. Try disabling USB legacy support on/off as well.

Edit: Please do the change one at a time. If one failed, revert it back to what it was and then change the other one.


----------



## StormMeows

AudioProm said:


> Optical is completely different type of implementation. It's not related to the context of issue you're having here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for checking this for me. I have been in contact with Schiit as well. They are thinking there may be a power issue with the Bifrost 2 I have. Since you do not have that USB error, that I get on both of my PCs, it may be the Bifrost 2. I hope not though. I will try these things as well. Thanks for helping!


----------



## Rattle

Are you on 1903 or 1909 version of Windows 10 ? There was some issues until recently that these updates cleared up.


----------



## Currawong

Sean H said:


> I can't recall from that discussion the other day about Tidal, do you stream Tidal? If so, based on what you are saying here, do you then have your Tidal preferences set to stream HiFi only and not Master?



I would personally recommend setting TIDAL to HiFi, rather than Master. The MQA versions of many albums have very clear distortion versus the non-MQA ones, even before we consider some older albums that come from different, and sometimes radically different-sounding masters.


----------



## StormMeows

Rattle said:


> Are you on 1903 or 1909 version of Windows 10 ? There was some issues until recently that these updates cleared up.


Hey thanks for asking. I was on 1903 I believe but I did an update to the latest 1909 and nothing changed unfortunately. I'm currently doing a clean Windows 10 install and going to see if anything changes. Thanks


----------



## tincanear

he


Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmmm.  Was $689 and is now $639.  @Jason Stoddard really has to work on his penmanship and quit making his 3s look like 8s .



forget about making better 3's-- Jason really needs to make his 8's look like 3's


----------



## XERO1 (Mar 13, 2020)

Currawong said:


> I would personally recommend setting TIDAL to HiFi, rather than Master. The MQA versions of many albums have very clear distortion versus the non-MQA ones, even before we consider some older albums that come from different, and sometimes radically different-sounding masters.


Hey Currawong.

What kind of distortion(s) are you referring to?  Is it clearly audible or only measureable?  Could you provide an example or two.

The different sounding masters I can see happening but I'm curious about the distortion issue.

Thanks


----------



## Currawong

XERO1 said:


> What kind of distortion(s) are you referring to? Is it clearly audible or only measureable? Could you provide an example or two.



Whenever someone recommends a more recent album which is in MQA, I try and compare both. An album mentioned by someone who is a fan of MQA on another forum was Driftglass by the SEED Ensemble. I listened to both versions, and while the regular 16/44.1 version (which incidentally, has a frequency cut-off at 20 kHz for unknown reasons) had an audible sense of depth, the MQA version (confirmed to have audio data out to 88.2 kHz after unfolding, except for the "hole" in the middle of the frequency spectrum where the MQA data was kept) had everything pushed forward and sounded compressed, with the instruments sounding harsh.


----------



## ev666il (Mar 14, 2020)

It says here that MQA is a lossy process/algorithm—that's enough for me to know I don't want it in my music.


----------



## Currawong

Regardless, MQA is intended to be "rendered" using the very short MQA filters. The closed-form filter in Schiit DACs is considerably different from what I understand, so it wouldn't be an ideal match anyway.


----------



## StormMeows

I installed a 100% clean Windows 10 installation on my PC and the issue with USB cutting out audio/having no audio after restarting, shutting down, or waking up the PC persists. I have contacted Schiit and their support team is recommending a replacement unit. I am using optical on the Bifrost 2 for now until I get another unit. I will update the thread to see if a replacement issue fixes these weird audio issues I'm having with the Bifrost 2 connected via USB. Thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## MrPanda

Is anyone else finding the BF2 a big improvement?  I've experimented with quite a few recordings over the last couple of weeks, and BF2 sounds great.   It's detailed, dynamic and smooth and sounds terrific.  Notoriously difficult choral and orchestral recordings sound clear and very deep, with nice layering and separation.  Source is generally Qobuz hi-res, particularly the new releases in classical and jazz.  The rest of the chain is a THX789 and a pair of Focal Stellia's.   I'm getting fine results with both USB and Toslink (streaming Roon over a Hifiberry Digi + Pro...   I never found the BF1 this engaging -


----------



## tafens

MrPanda said:


> Is anyone else finding the BF2 a big improvement?  I've experimented with quite a few recordings over the last couple of weeks, and BF2 sounds great.   It's detailed, dynamic and smooth and sounds terrific.  Notoriously difficult choral and orchestral recordings sound clear and very deep, with nice layering and separation.  Source is generally Qobuz hi-res, particularly the new releases in classical and jazz.  The rest of the chain is a THX789 and a pair of Focal Stellia's.   I'm getting fine results with both USB and Toslink (streaming Roon over a Hifiberry Digi + Pro...   I never found the BF1 this engaging -



Yep, Bifrost2 and Lyr3 here, much improved over internal multibit card (which in itself is not bad either). The Lyr3 really opened up with the Bifrost2


----------



## caLeonard

Dang, you all want to make me buy one, especially since I'm expecting my Lyr 3 for next week. If you know anyone who would like to sell his/her unit (European version/230 V), please drop me a message.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Working from home gave me enough time to compare all the audio crap that I have both from my home and office setups. The bottom line is that the Bifrost 2 is outstanding. I'm happy I took the plunge. It's been 3 to 4 weeks since I got it. There's no syndrome of new toy, placebo, or anything of the sorts. The difference is quite clear. I so very wish I had the Matrix X-Sabre Pro and RME ADI-2 v2 to compare, since I expect them to be among the best DA dacs. If I were to make a Bifrost 2.2, I 'd do whatever possible to get rid of the relay clicking noise (if it needs to be there, make a sound proof chamber around it), and add a screen somewhere telling me what output signal the dac is sending. Sound wise, it's a beauty. I can't fault the unit in this regard, no matter how picky I find myself being. I do have to state that I haven't heard any dac that is more expensive than the Bifrost 2, but knowing about laws of diminishing return, I wonder how much exactly I'm losing from, let's say, a US10,000 dac. My opinion is that you only know how good your stuff truly is after trying better stuff, but that ain't happening anytime soon for me. Would I still recommend this little Schiit? Absolutely. It's a shame many would avoid R2R ladder designs because the numbers are not there to match DA chips.


----------



## AudioProm

HumdrumPenguin said:


> It's a shame many would avoid R2R ladder designs because the numbers are not there to match DA chips.



I think many started their audio journey based on these measuring/numbers (including myself) because we didn't know or not sure what the purchase should be based on. Some ended up with delta-sigma DAC and never bother to try different type of DAC. Which is ok, whatever works for their personal taste because there's also no guarantee if they would like how R2R type sounds. So it could go either way.

I agree with the screen suggestion. I don't think it'll ruin the overall looks but as long as it doesn't jack up the price too much


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Just a little extra to my previous post... The Bifrost 2 has shown me the Asgard 3 is not quite as good as I thought it was, but the Drop 789 is better than I thought it was. And as most of the time, this is all subjective.


----------



## genck

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Just a little extra to my previous post... The Bifrost 2 has shown me the Asgard 3 is not quite as good as I thought it was, but the Drop 789 is better than I thought it was. And as most of the time, this is all subjective.


Can you elaborate?


----------



## theveterans

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Just a little extra to my previous post... The Bifrost 2 has shown me the Asgard 3 is not quite as good as I thought it was, but the Drop 789 is better than I thought it was. And as most of the time, this is all subjective.



Component synergy in play. If you put a brighter DAC with Asgard 3 such as Topping D90 for example, Asgard 3 would have a more neutral timbre than when it’s paired with the Bifrost 2. That’s why I would prefer to use the Bifrost 2 with a more resolving or brighter sounding amp and let Bifrost 2’s strengths be multiplied even more. I’ve heard Bifrost 2 with the BHSE e-stat amp (which can sound bright with some DACs particularly Hugo 2 that I’ve demoed) and I can hear every goodness of the Bifrost 2 more than any Schiit amps I’ve demoed before. Then again, that BHSE costs many times more than Ragnarok so I can’t fault Schiit for its shortcomings compared to BHSE


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

genck said:


> Can you elaborate?



I thought that the Asgard was not playing to it's full potential, so I expected  something more when paired with a good dac. Once done, the Bifrost showed the Asgard's shortcomings. The 789 didn't play well with my other dacs. I think it strips the dac clean and show the source as pure as possible. Once paired with the Bifrost, I could hear how good it really is. Hopefully this made some sense to you.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

theveterans said:


> Component synergy in play. If you put a brighter DAC with Asgard 3 such as Topping D90 for example, Asgard 3 would have a more neutral timbre than when it’s paired with the Bifrost 2. That’s why I would prefer to use the Bifrost 2 with a more resolving or brighter sounding amp and let Bifrost 2’s strengths be multiplied even more. I’ve heard Bifrost 2 with the BHSE e-stat amp (which can sound bright with some DACs particularly Hugo 2 that I’ve demoed) and I can hear every goodness of the Bifrost 2 more than any Schiit amps I’ve demoed before. Then again, that BHSE costs many times more than Ragnarok so I can’t fault Schiit for its shortcomings compared to BHSE



It's not that. I don't think the non bright sound is a bad thing. I do like neutral-warm. I just expected an even overall better sound out of the amp once I could hear all it could give me.


----------



## Reputator

HumdrumPenguin said:


> Just a little extra to my previous post... The Bifrost 2 has shown me the Asgard 3 is not quite as good as I thought it was, but the Drop 789 is better than I thought it was. And as most of the time, this is all subjective.



I liked the Asgard 3. But I didn't find it to be a very highend amp even with the humble Modi MB. A better amp revealed even more potential from the Modi MB, leading me to conclude that Asgard 3 is good...not great.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 22, 2020)

Context: Asgard 3 is $199.  I don't know about others, but I don't expect 'high-end' at $199.  It fares VERY well in its price-point.


----------



## Rattle

I think synergy is a thing. I have a couple other more expensive amps and the Asgard 3 is always making me smile when I hear it. So much amp for the money.


----------



## StormMeows

I had an Asgard 3 amp but upgraded to a THX AAA 887 and it blew it away for me. I was getting a lot of noise on the Asgard 3. I really enjoy the pairing of the THX AAA 887 + Bifrost 2.  I have been having the USB connectivity troubles with the Bifrost 2 so hopefully my replacement unit solves those issues. I should know tomorrow!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 22, 2020)

StormMeows said:


> I had an Asgard 3 amp but upgraded to a THX AAA 887 and it blew it away for me.



The THX a nice amp and sounds like it may be a very nice pairing with BF2.  I would certainly hope it was better at 2x the price of Asgard 3.


----------



## StormMeows

Ripper2860 said:


> The THX a nice amp.  I would certainly hope it was better at 2x the price of Asgard 3.


I would say it is about 100x the amp for the $200 higher price though lol.


----------



## antdroid

I actually prefer the Asgard 3 over the THX amps (I've own 3 or 4 of them) and that's not to say the THX are probably technically better in many aspects. The Asgard 3 just works better for my setup. It's an extremely wonderful value in my opinion. I find it is somewhere between a SS and Tube amp in terms of qualities, and that's why I really appreciate it for extended listening sessions.


----------



## adydula

I have the Monoprice THX AAA 887 here for a few months and 13 other amps and the Bifrost 2.

For $199 the Asgard 3 is an exceptional, well built amp. Period IMO.

The build quality in the THX amp for $400 should be a 100x better than what it comes with...the switches work, but are soft, plasticy and I hope last a few years....reminds me of the el cheopo low mtbf push button switches used in the O2 amps of the past.

Also the 5 year warranty of the Asgard 3 far exceeds the THX warranties on the $400 and less cost versions.....3 yrs for the Monoprice one.

There are often many sides to the story when looking at gear...but the Asgard 3 with a Bifrost 2 (this is a Bifrost 2 thread?) can produce a very nice
listening experience...as does the THX amps...

Alex


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

adydula said:


> I have the Monoprice THX AAA 887 here for a few months and 13 other amps and the Bifrost 2.
> 
> For $199 the Asgard 3 is an exceptional, well built amp. Period IMO.
> 
> ...



I agree that Schiit builds stuff very well.


----------



## StormMeows

adydula said:


> I have the Monoprice THX AAA 887 here for a few months and 13 other amps and the Bifrost 2.
> 
> For $199 the Asgard 3 is an exceptional, well built amp. Period IMO.
> 
> ...


Of course I would want to have an American product with a 5 year warranty over a Chinese built 3 year "replacement" option. But to my ears, the THX AAA 887 sounds dang good and that's all that matters. I spent $700 on the Bifrost 2 because I go with the American built companies as much as I can and I do think the Bifrost 2 sounds awesome. I just hope my replacement unit works properly with USB functionality. Hopefully we can get back on topic of the Bifrost 2 now.


----------



## xcom

on a positive note.... My Bifrost 2 should be here tomorrow. Yea... Fk u COVID-19, I got me a Bifrost 2. Now I am ready to bunker down.


----------



## genck

xcom said:


> on a positive note.... My Bifrost 2 should be here tomorrow. Yea... Fk u COVID-19, I got me a Bifrost 2. Now I am ready to bunker down.


don't forget the toilet paper


----------



## xcom

genck said:


> toilet paper


----------



## Reputator

Ripper2860 said:


> Context: Asgard 3 is $199.  I don't know about others, but I don't expect 'high-end' at $199.  It fares VERY well in its price-point.



I don't think that's in dispute. But those pairing a $200 amp with a $700 DAC probably have their priorities crossed.


----------



## xcom

Reputator said:


> I don't think that's in dispute. But those pairing a $200 amp with a $700 DAC probably have their priorities crossed.


Just curious... What amp would you recommend for a Bifrost 2?


----------



## Reputator

xcom said:


> Just curious... What amp would you recommend for a Bifrost 2?



I don't own one. But others have offered good suggestions here already.


----------



## antdroid

Reputator said:


> I don't think that's in dispute. But those pairing a $200 amp with a $700 DAC probably have their priorities crossed.



Maybe? I have amps of all price ranges. I just prefer the Asgard 3 over higher price amps for my current headphone setup (Utopia on loan, Verite and Arya). The fact that it costs less is a bonus. 

I like the Bifrost 2 over my RME ADI-2-DAC too because it presents music more like how I like it. It's in the minuscule percents of differences but I'll take it, and I do hear differences, even with the Asgard 3 to make it satisfying for me, however so slightly it is.

I'll give this DAC a try with the Jot next.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

xcom said:


> Just curious... What amp would you recommend for a Bifrost 2?



I have really enjoyed the LYR3 pairing with the Bifrost2.


----------



## Mkoll

xcom said:


> Just curious... What amp would you recommend for a Bifrost 2?


I'd recommend the Monoprice Liquid Platinum. It's my current setup and I immediately preferred it over my THX AAA 789.


----------



## xcom

Mkoll said:


> I'd recommend the Monoprice Liquid Platinum. It's my current setup and I immediately preferred it over my THX AAA 789.



This is what I had in mind. I am a bit of a bass head and I heard the LP does great in that section.


----------



## xcom

MRphotography said:


> I have really enjoyed the LYR3 pairing with the Bifrost2.



The Joutunheim is not too far from the Lyr3 and is what I am using. The only thing it lacks is the low freq.


----------



## ActuallySparky (Mar 23, 2020)

xcom said:


> on a positive note.... My Bifrost 2 should be here tomorrow. Yea... Fk u COVID-19, I got me a Bifrost 2. Now I am ready to bunker down.


LOL, that's why I got myself as Asgard3 earlier this week. I figure if I'm going to be working from home for months on end I might as well have a desktop amp for my home office


----------



## ActuallySparky

Reputator said:


> I don't think that's in dispute. But those pairing a $200 amp with a $700 DAC probably have their priorities crossed.


Depends on the AMP and the DAC. The Bifrost would certainly get the best possible sound you could get out of the Asgard, no?


----------



## Mkoll

xcom said:


> This is what I had in mind. I am a bit of a bass head and I heard the LP does great in that section.


It definitely does. Was the first thing I noticed going from the 789 to the LP.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Reputator said:


> I don't think that's in dispute. But those pairing a $200 amp with a $700 DAC probably have their priorities crossed.



I disagree vastly. Not about the pairing you've mentioned, but to the fact that the amp and the dac should be in a similar price range (or the amp should be more expensive) for a good pairing. As I've seen in many audio companies, the dac is normally the more expensive item when compared to their amplifier offering in the same tier. Price not always tell the whole tale (most of the times it is quite the opposite). I'd say that prices are likely attached to build quality though. For instance, I've heard from a few people that have tried both the Asgard 3 and the Jot that they prefer the Asgard 3 for the most of it. To me, the Asgard 3 is priced in a very weird category. Most people that want just the bang for the buck audiophile deal would go for Atom, Heresy, Magni 3+, Liquid Spark, Archel 2.5 Pro, or whatever they can get in the 100-170 bucks category. The Asgard 3 would make more sense to have substituted the Jot (keep the Jot's special edition for that headphone I forgot the name), with added balanced ins and outs, and even better engineering (assuming Schiit is capable of doing so if price is not such a compromise). Do it for 349 bucks without a preamp function or 499 with preamp + remote controller and call it a day. It would be the better pairing for the Bifrost 2 in my opinion, and I would certainly get one myself (after the whole ordeal of a certain virus threatening everyone's life style has been dealt with). The Lyr 3 is the other card on the table, but I purposefully avoided it because of the reports of it frying headphones.


----------



## xcom

HumdrumPenguin said:


> but I purposefully avoided it because of the reports of it frying headphones.



Whaaaat? Did not know this.


----------



## Reputator

xcom said:


> Whaaaat? Did not know this.



I believe that was only on the earliest examples, but I could be wrong.


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Reputator said:


> I believe that was only on the earliest examples, but I could be wrong.



As far as I know, Schiit never acknowledged anything. Assuming that's right, they wouldn't release any statement saying that the alleged problem has been fixed.


----------



## tafens

HumdrumPenguin said:


> As far as I know, Schiit never acknowledged anything. Assuming that's right, they wouldn't release any statement saying that the alleged problem has been fixed.



They have has addressed the issue a few times when it has popped up (and it seems to pop up now and then when people find past mentions of it threads and other forums). I found this post on a quick search of the forums:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lyr...ession-discussion-thread.875185/post-15235094


----------



## tafens

MRphotography said:


> I have really enjoyed the LYR3 pairing with the Bifrost2.



As have I 



HumdrumPenguin said:


> To me, the Asgard 3 is priced in a very weird category. Most people that want just the bang for the buck audiophile deal would go for Atom, Heresy, Magni 3+, Liquid Spark, Archel 2.5 Pro, or whatever they can get in the 100-170 bucks category.



Originally it was meant to be priced at $249, but they introduced it at $199 and said they would keep it there as long as possible. And it’s still there


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

tafens said:


> As have I
> 
> 
> 
> Originally it was meant to be priced at $249, but they introduced it at $199 and said they would keep it there as long as possible. And it’s still there



Still a small jump from the Heresy and Magni 3+. Considering all I’ve said, I think scratching off the Jot and making a much better Asgard 3 would be a better proposition, especially when you have the Bifrost using the same body size.


----------



## Reputator

If the US ever gets around to sending out those checks I know what I'm doing to help stimulate the economy!


----------



## Rattle

Yeah I dunno what others are hearing but Asgard 3 is a crazy good sounding amp. Liquid Platinum is one of my other amps. Asgard 3 is a solid state amp that doesn't sound like a POS solid state amp like most other SS amps.

If I get a stimulus check Bifrost 2 will be mine.


----------



## xcom

Rattle said:


> If I get a stimulus check Bifrost 2 will be mine.



Go spend that gov check on that!, You wont regret it!.


----------



## Rattle (Mar 24, 2020)

Either way I'll be getting one. Modi multibit serving me well. I'm employed in a machine shop we are considered critical manufacturing/defense base industry ... So I got a official letter saying I'm an essential worker. Can't see how I'll get a check or deserve one I guess. So contradictory... Everything says stay home ! They issued a stay at home advisory in the state and closed everything but I still have to go to work ! I guess there's worse things and at least I still have a job.


----------



## Ripper2860

Rattle said:


> They issued a stay at home advisory in the state and closed everything but I still have to go to work ! I guess there's worse things and at least I still have a job.



I bet traffic is far better.


----------



## Rattle

Ripper2860 said:


> I bet traffic is far better.



It is for people driving in the morning especially to Boston. I work nights though so traffic is always better.


----------



## KLJTech

My Bifrost 2 arrived yesterday, it's the first multibit DAC I've had since my Monarchy 22A back in the '90s. It's very impressive. Schiit obviously put a lot of thought and work into Unison USB, have they made any statements regarding what you should have your Sound/Speaker Properties set to (bitrate/frequency) in Windows 10? I've got almost 2TB of music (ripped lossless 16 bit FLAC) and about 50/60 albums purchased from HDTracks, most of which is supposed to be 24/96. Lately, I've been listening primarily to Tidal (HiFi). I'm not sure if that setting in Windows even matters when you use JRiver MC or Tidal and have them set for Exclusive Mode but I'd love to know if they've had anything to say about it.


----------



## ev666il

If you're running an application in Exclusive Mode, Windows sound settings don't have any impact as Windows Mixer is bypassed altogether (which is the point of Exclusive Mode.)

When going through the Windows Mixer, it is ideal to set it to the same bit depth and sampling frequency as the material you're listening to (and possibly disable system sounds.)


----------



## XERO1 (Mar 27, 2020)

Reputator said:


> If the US ever gets around to sending out those checks I know what I'm doing to help stimulate the economy!


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/news...for-more-economic-pain/ar-BB11NlNe?li=BBnb7Kz


----------



## ActuallySparky

My Bifrost arrived yesterday! Out of the box (before any significant burn in), I can immediately affirm Currawong's video - the Bifrost is a huge, obvious difference from the multibit card in the Asgard. In the coming weeks I'll be comparing the Bifrost and Mojo in more detail when I get the chance.

A question: is there any easy way to trim down the volume a bit? The Bifrost is outputting a pretty hot RCA signal, and on the Asgard on low gain, I can use less than 10% of the volume knob with sensitive IEMs. Can I configure the Bifrost to reduce its output voltage a hint?

It's a pretty stack!


----------



## AudioProm

ActuallySparky said:


> is there any easy way to trim down the volume a bit?



Reduce the system volume or run Equalizer APO to reduce gain level.


----------



## ActuallySparky

AudioProm said:


> Reduce the system volume or run Equalizer APO to reduce gain level.


Sadly (at least on Mac OS), the Unison USB adapter shows up as not supporting system volume, so my computer disables volume controls. Same thing when I select the DAC as exclusive use in Tidal - it detects that it doesn't support volume and disables Tidal's volume control as well.


----------



## ev666il

ActuallySparky said:


> Sadly (at least on Mac OS), the Unison USB adapter shows up as not supporting system volume, so my computer disables volume controls. Same thing when I select the DAC as exclusive use in Tidal - it detects that it doesn't support volume and disables Tidal's volume control as well.



On Windows 10 this is definitely not the case, and I can't but wonder whether the behavior you describe on MacOS is actually intended.


----------



## AudioProm

ActuallySparky said:


> Sadly (at least on Mac OS), the Unison USB adapter shows up as not supporting system volume, so my computer disables volume controls. Same thing when I select the DAC as exclusive use in Tidal - it detects that it doesn't support volume and disables Tidal's volume control as well.



You should write to Schiit support and find out if this behavior is normal. They probably want to know which MacOS version you have and any lighting / USB dock if you're using one.


----------



## rkw

ActuallySparky said:


> Sadly (at least on Mac OS), the Unison USB adapter shows up as not supporting system volume, so my computer disables volume controls. Same thing when I select the DAC as exclusive use in Tidal - it detects that it doesn't support volume and disables Tidal's volume control as well.





AudioProm said:


> You should write to Schiit support and find out if this behavior is normal. They probably want to know which MacOS version you have and any lighting / USB dock if you're using one.


Not a Unison USB issue. It is what Tidal does and the same thing happens with any other DAC. Turn exclusive mode off so you can turn down the volume, or use something like iFi IEMatch which is designed exactly for this situation.


----------



## ActuallySparky

rkw said:


> Not a Unison USB issue. It is what Tidal does and the same thing happens with any other DAC. Turn exclusive mode off so you can turn down the volume, or use something like iFi IEMatch which is designed exactly for this situation.


Ah, interesting - it's both a Unison and a Tidal issue. Setting it to not use exclusive mode does indeed let me turn down Tidal's volume independently which is useful. Alas the system volume is still set static, so for apps without their own in-app volume control, I'm stuck with the really, really high volume. Thank you for the fix on Tidal at least 

Per the suggestion from @AudioProm I'll contact Schiit to see if they have any suggestions for the OS-wide volume control.


----------



## ActuallySparky

Schiit replied and confirmed this is expected:

"Properly implemented audio drivers that take over mac core audio will all work like this."

For now I'll just reduce the volume in Tidal and be happy. I might also experiment with SoundSource which someone else mentioned as a potential way to control different devices/apps volumes on a Mac, although I have no idea if it reduces sound quality or not.


----------



## ev666il

If you want volume control in exclusive mode (which IIRC the Tidal application already enabled on Windows, but it's been a while), Audirvana does provide it. They have a trial period so it might be worth a shot?


----------



## ActuallySparky (Apr 2, 2020)

ActuallySparky said:


> ...I might also experiment with SoundSource which someone else mentioned as a potential way to control different devices/apps volumes on a Mac, although I have no idea if it reduces sound quality or not.


Update: SoundSource is perfection! It allows system-wide, and per-app volume control, as well as routing different apps to different sound devices if they don't support it natively like Tidal or Audirvana does. I can't hear any degradation in quality, and now that I've set the master volume for the Bifrost 2 device to ~50% volume in SoundSource, I can take full advantage of the Asgard 2's volume controls. You can also set per-app effects and EQ, although I haven't messed with that stuff much as I usually prefer flat EQ.




Highly recommended for anyone facing the same problem I am with sensitive IEMs on a Mac!


----------



## Monahans67

I have a question I hope all you experts can answer for me.  I have a bifrost 2 coming and I will connect it by spdf to my computer. I have another bifrost multibit that i want to run beside it.  Can I connect the second dac with xlr to rca cables.Both will have a Lyr 3 on top of them. Is it ok to chain them together like that?


----------



## LeMoviedave

Monahans67 said:


> I have a question I hope all you experts can answer for me.  I have a bifrost 2 coming and I will connect it by spdf to my computer. I have another bifrost multibit that i want to run beside it.  Can I connect the second dac with xlr to rca cables.Both will have a Lyr 3 on top of them. Is it ok to chain them together like that?


If you are talking about connecting the DACs to each other, no that won't work.  Neither of them have analog inputs.  Only outputs.


----------



## genck

Monahans67 said:


> I have a question I hope all you experts can answer for me.  I have a bifrost 2 coming and I will connect it by spdf to my computer. I have another bifrost multibit that i want to run beside it.  Can I connect the second dac with xlr to rca cables.Both will have a Lyr 3 on top of them. Is it ok to chain them together like that?


You can use two DAC's with one amp using something like the Schiit SYS


----------



## Monahans67

What I am trying to do is get the coaxial spdf from the computer to both dacs with the same sound signal from the computer coax.


----------



## Ripper2860

Assuming RCA S/PDIF coax out, have you tried RCA splitter cables to Y off of the computer to the 2x DACs?  A Schiit SYS switch will also work as 1-to-2 or 2-to-1 switcher since it is fully passive.


----------



## Monahans67

Ripper2860 said:


> Assuming RCA S/PDIF coax out, have you tried RCA splitter cables to Y off of the computer to the 2x DACs?  A Schiit SYS switch will also work as 1-to-2 or 2-to-1 switcher since it is fully passive.


That is the way I'll go I guess.  Just need the 2and lyr 3 and then I can have the input to both to do some testing fun.  By the way been having fun listening to some British Big Band stuff.. Quality on them are special.


----------



## NigelJ

Monahans67 said:


> ...By the way been having fun listening to some British Big Band stuff.. Quality on them are special.



Any details?


----------



## Monahans67 (May 18, 2020)

NigelJ said:


> Any details?


Yeah there is alot of British Big Band cd's on Amazon music HD.  Any of those you find there are excellent sound wise.  If your into the Diana Krall sound check out Carol Welsman born in Canada.


----------



## LeMoviedave

Just as a quick follow up to my posts from a while ago.  I returned the Topping D90, and re-bought the Bifrost 2 .  Just to make this clear, it is in no way a slur on the D90, but my ears have been getting progressively more sensitive to treble, and in the long run, needed the slightly darker DAC.  Both are terrific, and I can easily recommend either of them for the price they are going for.


----------



## theveterans (Apr 18, 2020)

LeMoviedave said:


> Just as a quick follow up to my posts from a while ago.  I returned the Topping D90, and re-bought the Bifrost 2 .  Just to make this clear, it is in no way a slur on the D90, but my ears have been getting progressively more sensitive to treble, and in the long run, needed the slightly darker DAC.  Both are terrific, and I can easily recommend either of them for the price they are going for.



IMO, it's not that the treble in the D90 is bright while the treble in the Bifrost 2 is not. Measurements would show both have ruler flat response and inaudible harmonics in the 1 KHz tone SINAD graph. It's the resolving ability of the Bifrost 2 to extract the most nuanced overtones in the treble that make it sound more "natural" and "void of digititus". I seriously doubt that a cymbal crash is just monotonic, but composed of multiple overtones and if those overtones aren't resolved properly, they can cause "ear fatigue". Bifrost 2 is resolving enough to reproduce the music with its complex harmonics that the sound it produces is non-fatiguing to our ears. Many other DACs that are not as resolving sounding as Bifrost 2 or better try to reduce fatigue that by sounding overly smooth. It's an amazing experience to hear music as crystal clear as possible yet never feel ear fatigue whatsoever


----------



## Sean H

theveterans said:


> IMO, it's not that the treble in the D90 is bright while the treble in the Bifrost 2 is not. Measurements would show both have ruler flat response and inaudible harmonics in the 1 KHz tone SINAD graph. It's the resolving ability of the Bifrost 2 to extract the most nuanced overtones in the treble that make it sound more "natural" and "void of digititus". I seriously doubt that a cymbal crash is just monotonic, but composed of multiple overtones and if those overtones aren't resolved properly, they can cause "ear fatigue". Bifrost 2 is resolving enough to reproduce the music with its complex harmonics that the sound it produces is non-fatiguing to our ears. Many other DACs that are not as resolving sounding as Bifrost 2 or better try to reduce fatigue that by sounding overly smooth. It's an amazing experience to hear music as crystal clear as possible yet never feel ear fatigue whatsoever



That is very interesting. Brilliant response and explanation. Thank you!


----------



## Monahans67

Geez I can't wait for mine to get here.  Backordered until 4-23 but probably be a week after that that they ship.  Who knows.  At least it is paid for and something to look forward to.  I will just have to struggle along with the Bifrost multibit I have and am keeping, with the two Lyr 3's.  Think I like the Schiit product?  Price, value and enjoyment all rolled into one.


----------



## Rattle

Monahans67 said:


> Geez I can't wait for mine to get here.  Backordered until 4-23 but probably be a week after that that they ship.  Who knows.  At least it is paid for and something to look forward to.  I will just have to struggle along with the Bifrost multibit I have and am keeping, with the two Lyr 3's.  Think I like the Schiit product?  Price, value and enjoyment all rolled into one.



Not shipping until week after next ? Did you ask them by chance ? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger myself.


----------



## XERO1 (Apr 18, 2020)

Monahans67 said:


> What I am trying to do is get the coaxial spdf from the computer to both dacs with the same sound signal from the computer coax.


A professional SDI video splitter should work for this, but it uses BNC connectors, so you will also need to gets some BNC-to-RCA adapters.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IKAFEQM/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VUG00FI/


----------



## Monahans67

Rattle said:


> Not shipping until week after next ? Did you ask them by chance ? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger myself.


Yes I did ask.  I see on the site they say will ship 4-23.  When I talked to Laura yesterday she did say it may be  two weeks but I see the ship date on the site has not changed so maybe she is just being safe, LOL.  Regardless with al the positive feedback I am stoked to get this DAC so I will be patient.  I would bet money they ship on 4-23.


----------



## Monahans67

XERO1 said:


> A professional SDI video splitter should work for this, but it uses BNC connectors, so you will also need to gets some BNC-to-RCA adapters.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IKAFEQM/
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VUG00FI/


Thanks so much for the info and effort to help me.  I used a SPDIF cable and put a 1-female/2 male y splitter on it and have one hooked up now and I cannot tell the difference in the sound.  Once the other Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 gets here I will hook up the other male and I bet it works fine.  If not I will look further.  Thanks for the help though.


----------



## rkw

Monahans67 said:


> When I talked to Laura yesterday she did say it may be  two weeks but I see the ship date on the site has not changed so maybe she is just being safe


Jason has said that the website is not always up to date and to contact Schiit directly to get the latest status, which you have done.


----------



## Monahans67

rkw said:


> Jason has said that the website is not always up to date and to contact Schiit directly to get the latest status, which you have done.


I am going to be patient and would rather they take there time and get me a good one.  It's not the end of the world and not near as serious as what some people are enduring.


----------



## Currawong

HumdrumPenguin said:


> The Lyr 3 is the other card on the table, but I purposefully avoided it because of the reports of it frying headphones.



The tube socket in the Lyr 3 has a large center-pin section, making it easy to put some tubes in the wrong way. This caused people to accidentally fry their headphones. 



Monahans67 said:


> What I am trying to do is get the coaxial spdf from the computer to both dacs with the same sound signal from the computer coax.



Why not use USB? Or are you trying to compare both DACs once they arrive?



theveterans said:


> IMO, it's not that the treble in the D90 is bright while the treble in the Bifrost 2 is not. Measurements would show both have ruler flat response and inaudible harmonics in the 1 KHz tone SINAD graph. It's the resolving ability of the Bifrost 2 to extract the most nuanced overtones in the treble that make it sound more "natural" and "void of digititus". I seriously doubt that a cymbal crash is just monotonic, but composed of multiple overtones and if those overtones aren't resolved properly, they can cause "ear fatigue". Bifrost 2 is resolving enough to reproduce the music with its complex harmonics that the sound it produces is non-fatiguing to our ears. Many other DACs that are not as resolving sounding as Bifrost 2 or better try to reduce fatigue that by sounding overly smooth. It's an amazing experience to hear music as crystal clear as possible yet never feel ear fatigue whatsoever



I have the D90 here, and while I don't find it fatiguing (I guess a noisy USB set-up might cause that) I do find even the better AKM DAC set-ups to a be a tad flat-sounding. The Bifrost definitely brings out the nuances better.



XERO1 said:


> A professional SDI video splitter should work for this, but it uses BNC connectors, so you will also need to gets some BNC-to-RCA adapters.



It'll probably work, but video uses 50 Ohm impedance connections, while S/PDIF is 75 Ohms, so the signal reflections that'll cause may degrade sound quality. Or it may not.


----------



## genck

Currawong said:


> The tube socket in the Lyr 3 has a large center-pin section, making it easy to put some tubes in the wrong way. This caused people to accidentally fry their headphones.


No, that was because the original Lyr didn't have a mute relay. Excess current flowed through the drivers and damaged them (dynamic, typically).


----------



## ev666il

Monahans67 said:


> I am going to be patient and would rather they take there time and get me a good one.



The Bifrost 2 is 100% worth the wait in my opinion. I ordered mine in early December and got it in late January because the black finish was out of stock at the European dealer at the time of my ordering. It was a long wait but boy am I glad I stuck with it!I love this DAC


----------



## LeMoviedave

I wonder what upgrades to the unit might be in-store over the coming years?


----------



## ev666il

LeMoviedave said:


> I wonder what upgrades to the unit might be in-store over the coming years?



Jason mentioned in his year-end post that the golden age of True Multibit is still ahead of us, so there might be a new DAC module on the horizon which, I'd expect, would also be available as an upgrade option for the Bifrost 2. The Unison USB board is also upgradable, should they ever change or revise anything from that interface.


----------



## LeMoviedave

I didn't think you could switch the DAC.  I figured it would be an upgrade to the analog stage.


----------



## Sean H

*Brand new review (4/13/20) of the Bifrost 2 and Ragnarok 2 posted on Positive Feedback here:*

https://positive-feedback.com/revie...ac-and-ragnarok-2-nexus-integrated-amplifier/


----------



## Monahans67

Currawong said:


> The tube socket in the Lyr 3 has a large center-pin section, making it easy to put some tubes in the wrong way. This caused people to accidentally fry their headphones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Monahans67

Yeah I plan to compare a little and just goof around actually.  Sorry for the delay but my keyboard stopped and I had to go get a new one.


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

rkw said:


> Jason has said that the website is not always up to date and to contact Schiit directly to get the latest status, which you have done.



Removed


----------



## scottcw (Apr 21, 2020)

I contacted Schiit a couple of weeks ago for guidance on which DAC would best fit my use case and chain. Important to note, I made it clear that my source was AmazonHD via Windows 10 USB port. I ordered the B2 after a couple of emails and a lot of research here.

I am getting regular clicks, pops, crackling in my headphones while music is playing. This is NOT the B2 clicking when the sample rate changes from track to track. That click distinctly comes from the Bifrost, this is in my headphones. It sounds like an old record that hasn't been cleaned.

I thought this was a sample rate issue at first because there seemed to be less noise when I set Windows to16/48 than 24/48 or 24/192. But changing the sample rate didn't completely eliminate it.

I researched this and found some info that it may be system sounds and other devices interfering with the music. I routed all other devices to my internal speakers, with AmazonHD only routed to the Bifrost. I even went so far as to mute system sounds. I still get noise in my headphones, though much improved like I cleaned the record.

I emailed Schiit yesterday and got this response, "_Amazon wrote their drivers like idiots and the sample rate defers to the computer drivers, so they do not 'set' themselves automatically. This means that anytime you want to play an amazon track of a different sample rate than a previous one, you have to go into the windows sound settings and change the bitrate and sample rate to whatever that particular track is natively._"

I confirmed that the sample rate is changing for each track by clicking the “HD” or “Ultra HD” icon next to the song title. It shows the native sample rate for the current track, the max sample rate for the Bifrost, and the ”playing at” sample rate for the track. The native and ”playing at” rates always change together and are always the same. All tracks show B2 capability as 24/192, and all tracks play at their native rate of 16/44, 24/48, or 24/192.

My response to Schiit was, "_Let’s say you are correct that this is a sample rate issue in Amazon HD. In my very first email inquiring about the Yggdrasil, Gungnir, or Bifrost, I was very clear that my ONLY source is streaming AmazonHD. If there is a known issue with popping because of AmazonHD sample rates, why would you not tell me from the start instead of recommending the Bifrost???_"

Does anyone have suggestions on how to eliminate this noise in my headphones? I don't get it with any other DAC.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## jean-luc

Jason Stoddard said:


> You need the new firmware. It's available on the site at schiit.com/firmware
> 
> This is not related to capacitors. That was incorrect information.



Hi sir,
The problem persists,  sometimes the three LEDs flash together and the music is stopped. I have to turn off the device and turn it back on.


----------



## jnak00

scottcw said:


> I contacted Schiit a couple of weeks ago for guidance on which DAC would best fit my use case and chain. Important to note, I made it clear that my source was AmazonHD via Windows 10 USB port. I ordered the B2 after a couple of emails and a lot of research here.
> 
> I am getting regular clicks, pops, crackling in my headphones while music is playing. This is NOT the B2 clicking when the sample rate changes from track to track. That click distinctly comes from the Bifrost, this is in my headphones. It sounds like an old record that hasn't been cleaned.
> 
> ...



I am not sure if you can do anything with the Bifrost to fix it.  You could use something other than Amazon HD.  No clicking issues with Spotify or Tidal.


----------



## scottcw (Apr 21, 2020)

jnak00 said:


> I am not sure if you can do anything with the Bifrost to fix it.  You could use something other than Amazon HD.  No clicking issues with Spotify or Tidal.



I chose Amazon HD because they offer higher resolution tracks, up to 24/192. I'm not going to downgrade my source for the DAC. I'd rather get a DAC that doesn't have these issues.

Also, I still don't think this is a sample rate issue. The click from the B2 when sample rate changes clearly comes from the unit, not through my headphones. I would expect the sample rate change to only happen when the track changes. The noise I am hearing is through my headphones AND happens throughout the track.

Sending all other devices to internal speakers reduced the noise significantly so I think that is the right track. The remaining noise makes me think that I missed some option that would eliminate it.


----------



## Ripper2860

Odd.  I use Amazon HD Music with my BF2 and have not experienced the issue you've described.  I'm curious to see what you find is the cause.  I prefer services that support bit perfect EXCLUSIVE mode, but never hand an issue with AZHD playback.

Wild-ass guess - could be latency.  Google 'Fidelizer' and try their free version to see if it helps.


----------



## Wes S

scottcw said:


> I chose Amazon HD because they offer higher resolution tracks, up to 24/192. I'm not going to downgrade my source for the DAC. I'd rather get a DAC that doesn't have these issues.
> 
> Also, I still don't think this is a sample rate issue. The click from the B2 when sample rate changes clearly comes from the unit, not through my headphones. I would expect the sample rate change to only happen when the track changes. The noise I am hearing is through my headphones AND happens throughout the track.
> 
> Sending all other devices to internal speakers reduced the noise significantly so I think that is the right track. The remaining noise makes me think that I missed some option that would eliminate it.


Have you tried Qobuz Hi-Res, for streaming?  They have 24/192, and sound better to me and many others on this forum, than Tidal and Amazon.


----------



## scottcw (Apr 21, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> I prefer services that support bit perfect EXCLUSIVE mode, but never hand an issue with AZHD playback.



Forgot to mention that I have the B2 set to "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device" and "Give exclusive mode applications priority." I'm not understanding what Schiit customer service meant about having to change sample rate manually for each individual track. As I mentioned, I can see that the native and ”playing at” rates always change together and are always the same. All tracks show B2 capability as 24/192, and all tracks play at their native rate of 16/44, 24/48, or 24/192. Unless I am missing something, it looks to me that Amazon is automatically changing the rate on per track basis.




Wes S said:


> Have you tried Qobuz Hi-Res, for streaming?  They have 24/192, and sound better to me and many others on this forum, than Tidal and Amazon.



I have not looked at Qobuz. As an existing Prime member, HD music is only $12.99/month. I'm not going to spend more money to chase down issues that appear to be with one specific DAC.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 21, 2020)

scottcw said:


> Forgot to mention that I have the B2 set to "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device" and "Give exclusive mode applications priority." I'm not understanding what Schiit customer service meant about having to change sample rate manually for each individual track. As I mentioned, I can see that the native and ”playing at” rates always change together and are always the same. All tracks show B2 capability as 24/192, and all tracks play at their native rate of 16/44, 24/48, or 24/192. Unless I am missing something, it looks to me that Amazon is automatically changing the rate on per track basis.



That only works with applications that are designed to work with Windows WASAPI and request exclusive mode access.  Amazon HD player does not support that capability.  I've put in a few requests for them to add that, but no luck yet.

BTW -- if you have not tried Fidelizer, give it a try.  It really could be DPC latency causing the clicks/pops.  https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/

Theyscon has a free DPC latency checker util for Windows: https://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml


----------



## quimbo

Plenty of known issues with Amazon so-called HD.  Forum here - amazon-launches-music-hd-with-lossless-streaming


----------



## rkw

Ripper2860 said:


> That only works with applications that are designed to work with Windows WASAPI and request exclusive mode access.  Amazon HD player does not support that capability.


Some users are seeing their Amazon player updated with an exclusive mode option, but it hasn't rolled out to all users and there is some question about whether it is actually implemented.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ama...-with-lossless-streaming.905493/post-15569343


----------



## scottcw

Ripper2860 said:


> BTW -- if you have not tried Fidelizer, give it a try.  It really could be DPC latency causing the clicks/pops.  https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/



I tried this and set for "consumer" since this is a work computer. I'm still hearing intermittent clicks/pops during almost every track.

I'm pretty close to returning for a refund and looking for another DAC. I've had 3 other DACs hooked up to this laptop with no issues.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

scottcw said:


> I contacted Schiit a couple of weeks ago for guidance on which DAC would best fit my use case and chain. Important to note, I made it clear that my source was AmazonHD via Windows 10 USB port. I ordered the B2 after a couple of emails and a lot of research here.
> 
> I am getting regular clicks, pops, crackling in my headphones while music is playing. This is NOT the B2 clicking when the sample rate changes from track to track. That click distinctly comes from the Bifrost, this is in my headphones. It sounds like an old record that hasn't been cleaned.
> 
> ...



Please let me know who answered your inquiry. We should not be calling other companies idiots. Also, contact orders@schiit.com and have them swap the Bifrost just in case. 



jean-luc said:


> Hi sir,
> The problem persists,  sometimes the three LEDs flash together and the music is stopped. I have to turn off the device and turn it back on.



Sounds like the update didn't work, because after the update, Bifrost 2 cannot triple flash. You do need an SD card with the formatting specified, in the size range specified. If we didn't send you a formatted SD card with the new firmware on it, contact orders@schiit.com and have us send you one. When updating, the LEDs will flash in a totally different sequence, like this:


----------



## LeMoviedave

Honestly, I think there are some minor compatability issues with the Unison USB.  My Xduoo x10TII (digital turntable) struggled with it, and had similar issues, as did my Cayin N5ii.  My Euphony server does occasionally have an issue as well, I think when switching file formats, where it gives me piercing static until I unplug and replug in the USB cable.  I love the sound of the Bifrost 2, but it stands to reason that a new USB receiver like this might hit some compatibility issues here and there.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

LeMoviedave said:


> Honestly, I think there are some minor compatability issues with the Unison USB.  My Xduoo x10TII (digital turntable) struggled with it, and had similar issues, as did my Cayin N5ii.  My Euphony server does occasionally have an issue as well, I think when switching file formats, where it gives me piercing static until I unplug and replug in the USB cable.  I love the sound of the Bifrost 2, but it stands to reason that a new USB receiver like this might hit some compatibility issues here and there.



Please contact us and let us know which platforms you are having trouble with. Although we tested extensively with Linux, Windows, MacOS, Android, and iOS, and ensured that most of the popular streaming hardware is covered, as well as ensuring Room compatibility, we'd be interested to see where things are stumbling. 

One important point: Unison USB will require some power to run the receiver side, so if the device can't provide 100mA reliably (the limit for iOS devices), it may have problems.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 21, 2020)

scottcw said:


> I tried this and set for "consumer" since this is a work computer. I'm still hearing intermittent clicks/pops during almost every track.
> 
> I'm pretty close to returning for a refund and looking for another DAC. I've had 3 other DACs hooked up to this laptop with no issues.



Well, you can check that off the list as possible issues, then.  

Looks like Jason posted up about a return, so hopefully you'll give it another try.  Bifrost 2 really is a stellar DAC and to give-up w/o trying a new replacement unit first would be a real shame, IMHO.  Good luck!!


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Jason Stoddard said:


> Please contact us and let us know which platforms you are having trouble with. Although we tested extensively with Linux, Windows, MacOS, Android, and iOS, and ensured that most of the popular streaming hardware is covered, as well as ensuring Room compatibility, we'd be interested to see where things are stumbling.
> 
> One important point: Unison USB will require some power to run the receiver side, so if the device can't provide 100mA reliably (the limit for iOS devices), it may have problems.



Removed


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Monahans67 said:


> Hey Jason any idea when the Bifrost 2 is going to be available again.  I ordered and the site still says will ship 4-23 but after text to confirm was told yall are waiting for parts and no firm date can be given.



Best to ask orders@schiit.com


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Removed


----------



## Rattle

Monahans67 said:


> Is there anybody else waiting for a Bifrost 2 to ship?



no more like waiting for stock so I can order one....


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Rattle said:


> no more like waiting for stock so I can order one....



Removed


----------



## Rattle

Monahans67 said:


> I just sent another message.  I'll let you know what they say.



I actually asked myself. We are a pain in the ass


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Rattle said:


> I actually asked myself. We are a pain in the ass
> 
> Removed


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Monahans67 said:


> The only complaint I really have is that they post for the last two weeks that they will ship on 4-23.  It also still says that on their site.  I went ahead and ordered it and then they tell me in a text waiting for parts and it may be a few weeks.  If that is the case then change the site so we don't expect it .  I still will wait for it but it is a little frustrating.  I guess the isolation of the virus has some of us impatient, LOL.



Removed


----------



## Rattle

Monahans67 said:


> Same answer, have not received the parts yet, might be a couple weeks.  I told her "Good things come to those who wait".



Yeah Laura said maybe a couple weeks. Everyone always answers quickly there. I understand your frustrations, that's why I'm waiting. I don't have an issue with ordering and even paying in advance as long as I know. I don't take issue with their site saying 4/23 I just waited for today and then asked. They'll probably update it soon so people don't order not knowing it might be a couple weeks. I can understand that being frustrating. I would always email first in that situation and they probably prefer that also so people don't get pissed when it's out of their control.


----------



## scottcw

Your excruciating wait is a classic example of a first world problem.


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

scottcw said:


> Your excruciating wait is a classic example of a first world problem.



Removed


----------



## scottcw (Apr 27, 2020)

I sent (past tense, I don't have it, don't ask) my B2 back for a refund.

I certainly can hear why the Bifrost 2 has so much positive feedback, but it came down to sounding more impressive than natural to me. The sense of space, placement, details, and the huge stage are not what I hear in real life and it bugged me. As someone else wrote on here, a grand piano is 5 ft. wide, not 12 ft. wide.

I put my Red Wine Isabella NOS DAC/pre/headphone amp in place of the B2 and everything sounds much more natural. The B2 was comparatively exaggerating a lot of information that the Isabella lets flow. I'm sure the Isabella is not as impressive as the B2 in a technical sense, I just prefer how it presents the music.

All in all, the B2 is a high quality DAC from a great company with amazing customer service. I would not hesitate to recommend it to someone depending on their listening preferences.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

scottcw said:


> I'm sending my B2 back for a refund.
> 
> I certainly can hear why the Bifrost 2 has so much positive feedback, but it came down to sounding more impressive than natural to me. The sense of space, placement, details, and the huge stage are not what I hear in real life and it bugged me. As someone else wrote on here, a grand piano is 5 ft. wide, not 12 ft. wide.
> 
> ...




Any chance you're willing to sell? Is it black?


----------



## Sean H

scottcw said:


> I'm sending my B2 back for a refund.
> 
> I certainly can hear why the Bifrost 2 has so much positive feedback, but it came down to sounding more impressive than natural to me. The sense of space, placement, details, and the huge stage are not what I hear in real life and it bugged me. As someone else wrote on here, a grand piano is 5 ft. wide, not 12 ft. wide.
> 
> ...



The Red Wine Isabella NOS DAC/pre/headphone amp is $5,000, correct? I would hope it sounds even better, more natural than the B2. I'd probably return it as well if I had the Red Wine DAC. Maybe you should be looking at the Yggy as a better comparison?


----------



## scottcw

Sean H said:


> The Red Wine Isabella NOS DAC/pre/headphone amp is $5,000, correct? I would hope it sounds even better, more natural than the B2. I'd probably return it as well if I had the Red Wine DAC. Maybe you should be looking at the Yggy as a better comparison?



The Isabella was $5K and maybe TOTL in 2012, but I thought maybe there have been improvements. I thought wrong for my ears.

I can't imagine the Yggy is going to have less of the qualities of the B2 that sound unnatural to me.


----------



## Jon L

scottcw said:


> I put my Red Wine Isabella NOS DAC/pre/headphone amp in place of the B2 and everything sounds much more natural.



Isabella uses 16-bit NOS DAC chip, 6922 tubes, SLA battery power, and Paper-in-oil capacitors, and as such, I would expect Bifrost 2, and most other DAC's, to sound completely different from it.  
Did you try the B2 into the Isabella acting as tube preamp vs. B2 direct without Isabella in chain?  Curious re results..


----------



## scottcw

Jon L said:


> Did you try the B2 into the Isabella acting as tube preamp vs. B2 direct without Isabella in chain?  Curious re results..



I did not. I ran the B2 into my Coffman GA-1. I prefer the Isabella as a DAC into the GA-1.


----------



## rkw (Apr 24, 2020)

scottcw said:


> I did not. I ran the B2 into my Coffman GA-1. I prefer the Isabella as a DAC into the GA-1.


Does the Isabella DAC have a separate output, or does it run through the Isabella preamp?



scottcw said:


> The Isabella was $5K and maybe TOTL in 2012, but I thought maybe there have been improvements. I thought wrong for my ears.


NOS (non-oversampling) DACs have a particular type of sound, and people who prefer NOS over delta-sigma and R2R describe it exactly as you did (more natural). If you want to stay with the NOS sound, try newer NOS DACs such as Holo Spring.


----------



## Sean H

Jon L said:


> Isabella uses 16-bit NOS DAC chip, 6922 tubes, SLA battery power, and Paper-in-oil capacitors, and as such, I would expect Bifrost 2, and most other DAC's, to sound completely different from it.
> Did you try the B2 into the Isabella acting as tube preamp vs. B2 direct without Isabella in chain?  Curious re results..



Oh, wow. NOS DAC chip - tubes - battery power - paper in oil caps, that has got to be about the most natural, smoothest sounding DAC ever! Wow, holy crap. Sounds amazing. Yeah, I would bet just about any other DAC on the planet would sound quite contrived. I'm going to have to check that thing out.


----------



## theveterans (Apr 24, 2020)

Sean H said:


> Oh, wow. NOS DAC chip - tubes - battery power - paper in oil caps, that has got to be about the most natural, smoothest sounding DAC ever! Wow, holy crap. Sounds amazing. Yeah, I would bet just about any other DAC on the planet would sound quite contrived. I'm going to have to check that thing out.



The cream of the crop with this implementation IMO is the Aries Cerat Kassandra II Signature LE DAC well at the cost of multiple Yggdrasils.


----------



## scottcw

Sean H said:


> Oh, wow. NOS DAC chip - tubes - battery power - paper in oil caps, that has got to be about the most natural, smoothest sounding DAC ever! Wow, holy crap. Sounds amazing. Yeah, I would bet just about any other DAC on the planet would sound quite contrived. I'm going to have to check that thing out.



There's an Isabellina on the 'bay right now.


----------



## AlexanderM

Monahans67 said:


> Is there anybody else waiting for a Bifrost 2 to ship?


I ordered Bifrost 2 on April 20 assuming they will ship it on April 23 as website says. Wrote them on 24 and asked for order status update. Laura replied: "Unfortunately it could be a few more weeks.  We haven't received the parts yet that we were waiting for."


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Removed


----------



## ActuallySparky

Monahans67 said:


> Yeah I ordered on the 13th and have been being told almost everytime I've asked that it would be a week or two.  Now they are telling you a few more weeks.  I asked Jason on the thread and he said to ask the orders people.  Only thing I can assume is some of the parts come from two different companies in California and one of those is hampered by the virus.  Good thing I've got a bifrost multibit here to tide me over.  I am sure they are doing all THEY can and want to ship them as bad as we want to receive them.  "GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WAIT".


Yeah, it's challenging to run a business right now. I feel for them with their suppliers being impacted, and the extra effort they have to go through to keep their employees safe. It's also rough being trapped at home waiting on a new toy to keep us distracted. I guess everyone loses when a pandemic happens.

Good things do indeed come to those who wait though - the Bifrost 2 is worthy of a delay!


----------



## Andrew Rieger

I'm in the same boat. I ordered mine a few days ago hoping they'd get the parts in stock. I sold my other DAC to cover the cost so now I have nothing to listen to.


----------



## warp2600

Andrew Rieger said:


> I'm in the same boat. I ordered mine a few days ago hoping they'd get the parts in stock. I sold my other DAC to cover the cost so now I have nothing to listen to.


A bummer.


----------



## jean-luc

Jason Stoddard said:


> Please let me know who answered your inquiry. We should not be calling other companies idiots. Also, contact orders@schiit.com and have them swap the Bifrost just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like the update didn't work, because after the update, Bifrost 2 cannot triple flash. You do need an SD card with the formatting specified, in the size range specified. If we didn't send you a formatted SD card with the new firmware on it, contact orders@schiit.com and have us send you one. When updating, the LEDs will flash in a totally different sequence, like this:



You're right, the firmware is correctly installed now. 
Thanks for your time.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Schiit told me the same thing today. No parts, not sure when they will have them. Possibly several weeks. Sucks but it is what it is. I think maybe they should just remove the option to purchase them on their site. It sounds like it will be a while before we get them.


----------



## Rattle

It's been a week since the 23rd and I bet there's dozens ordered. Probably fat chance of getting one if you are not willing to order in advance.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

@Jason Stoddard 

I'm curious if Schiit has had to substitute any PCB parts for the Bifrost due to covid supply shortages.


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

Rattle said:


> It's been a week since the 23rd and I bet there's dozens ordered. Probably fat chance of getting one if you are not willing to order in advance.
> 
> Removed


----------



## jnak00

I think if they knew for sure, they would say so.  Sounds like they are waiting on parts and aren't exactly sure when they will arrive. Vendors might tell them "two weeks" and it actually turns out to be six.


----------



## scottcw

If it's anything like the one I ordered and returned, they don't charge your card until it ships, so it's not like you are actually out any money.


----------



## Monahans67

scottcw said:


> If it's anything like the one I ordered and returned, they don't charge your card until it ships, so it's not like you are actually out any money.


Sort of but responsible people put the money up to immediately pay off the card once it is charged.  I did and will pay the 785.00 once the card shows the charge.  So yeah we are actually out the money once ordered unless we cancel the order.


----------



## Andrew Rieger (May 1, 2020)

I'm fine waiting as long as they don't cut any corners to get them out. I don't want some Corona special where they changed out parts since they couldn't get what they needed. I'm only thinking about this because, in my line of work, there are certain electronic components that are almost impossible to get at the moment due to factory closures.

It would be nice if Schiit commented on this and the delay in a more detailed manner.


----------



## scottcw

Monahans67 said:


> Sort of but responsible people put the money up to immediately pay off the card once it is charged.  I did and will pay the 785.00 once the card shows the charge.  So yeah we are actually out the money once ordered unless we cancel the order.



Whether you pay off immediately or not is irrelevant. My point is that you have yet to be charged for the product. They didn't take your money and then ask you to wait on shipping delays.


----------



## Monahans67

scottcw said:


> Whether you pay off immediately or not is irrelevant. My point is that you have yet to be charged for the product. They didn't take your money and then ask you to wait on shipping delays.


It is not irrelevant at all.  You have to put the money up to pay it when due. Nobody said they took money but with an existing order they will.  I'm done with this conversation and will leave it alone. Still can't wait to get it.....lol.


----------



## rkw

Monahans67 said:


> It is not irrelevant at all.  You have to put the money up to pay it when due. Nobody said they took money but with an existing order they will.


I'm confused about what you're saying. Are you prepaying to the credit card for a charge that hasn't been posted to the account yet? I can understand that it is one way to set aside money for an expected charge to come, but that is not the best practice for online purchases. I've ordered things from Amazon that became backordered and subsequently canceled because the item became unavailable. You can come up with other ways that you can set aside money for impending charges.


----------



## Monahans67 (May 6, 2020)

rkw said:


> I'm confused about what you're saying. Are you prepaying to the credit card for a charge that hasn't been posted to the account yet? I can understand that it is one way to set aside money for an expected charge to come, but that is not the best practice for online purchases. I've ordered things from Amazon that became backordered and subsequently canceled because the item became unavailable. You can come up with other ways that you can set aside money for impending charges.
> Removed


----------



## Jason Stoddard

With respect to Bifrost 2, we have been waiting on analog PCBs. These are very special for a variety of reasons and are not produced at the PCB provider who does most of our boards. They are long lead time in the best of times. Now, the date promised slipped...and slipped again...and slipped again. Once we have those boards, we're set to go. All other boards have been produced. Metal is in-house. Just waiting on analog output boards.

And, as far as our supply chain goes, we long ago started making changes to ensure availability, and we have no issues with parts. In fact, we stock several months ahead with dedicated stock at our purchasing partner in Utah.


----------



## Monahans67

Jason Stoddard said:


> With respect to Bifrost 2, we have been waiting on analog PCBs. These are very special for a variety of reasons and are not produced at the PCB provider who does most of our boards. They are long lead time in the best of times. Now, the date promised slipped...and slipped again...and slipped again. Once we have those boards, we're set to go. All other boards have been produced. Metal is in-house. Just waiting on analog output boards.
> 
> And, as far as our supply chain goes, we long ago started making changes to ensure availability, and we have no issues with parts. In fact, we stock several months ahead with dedicated stock at our purchasing partner in Utah.


I figured it was something with a provider.  Thank you for clearing it up for us.  I love Schiit products and appreciate your always professional response to inquiries.


----------



## Shane D

Hello folks. Thinking about perhaps getting a Bifrost 2, but wondering if the expenditure would worth it. $699.00 sounds very good! However I come from a far away land called Canada and the landed cost would be Very close to $1,200.00.
I know dollar amounts and improvements are all relative, but I wanted to lay out my situation and get some feedback:

Say a guy is running a DAP (Sony NW-ZX300) to feed an SMSL SU-8 DAC to feed a Liquid Platinum amp, an SMSL SP200 amp and a MAD Ear+ HD II tube amp.

Headphones are Grado GH2's, Meze 99 Classic's, HiFiman Sundara's, Focal Elex's and Koss E95X's

Music being Rock, pop, blues and horn jazz.

Media being 40% ALAC, 30% MP3 (320Kbps) and 30% AAC (260Kbps).
No streaming at all.

With the items listed and my choice of media would I see much of a quality upgrade by changing the SU-8 to a Bifrost 2?

Opinions seem to range from an incremental improvement to Holy crap, it's end game!
I am guessing the reaction will depend on what you are used to, which is why I listed Everything. 

Appreciate any input.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi (May 6, 2020)

Elex and koss for sure. I say find one used. It's incremental from su-8, but everything is improved. The sound is less in your face with headphones, stage will be wider/deeper, and it will sound a bit more euphoric. 

Unison usb sounds better with bigger Soundstage. I can't use unison with my bright CTH/hd600 and badly recorded music, it's a bit painful. 

I dunno what Alac is, imo if you aren't getting flac files you're missing out on how great it can sound. (edit: I see Alac is 16 bits, think bifrost is only 18bits so probably ain't that different). 

I don't have any complaints using it purely for HD650 hd600. If you insist on spending more money on a dac it'll probably be for a different presentation. Your music will sound great, whether you can live with that is up to you lol.


----------



## Shane D (May 6, 2020)

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Elex and koss for sure. I say find one used. It's incremental from su-8, but everything is improved. The sound is less in your face with headphones, stage will be wider/deeper, and it will sound a bit more euphoric.
> 
> I dunno what Alac is, but imo if you aren't getting flac files you're missing out on how great it can sound. Comparing spotify HQ streaming to the same music flac is quite different. Do yourself that favor if you want to hear what your gear can really do.
> 
> I don't have any complaints using it purely for HD650 hd600. If you insist on spending more money on a dac it'll probably be for a different presentation. Your music will sound great, whether you can live with that is up to you lol.


ALAC is just Apple's version of FLAC
I am not going to spend thousands of dollars to replace my lossy files and I have no interest in streaming.

I am just wondering with my gear and my media would I notice much of a difference.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

Shane D said:


> ALAC is just Apple's version of FLAC
> I am not going to spend thousands of dollars to replace my lossy files and I have no interest in streaming.
> 
> I am just wondering with my gear and my media would I notice much of a difference.



Wasn't being malicious, just stating my experience. You will notice a difference, especially since you seem to want to hear one. It's worth having.


----------



## cgb3

Shane D said:


> ALAC is just Apple's version of FLAC
> I am not going to spend thousands of dollars to replace my lossy files and I have no interest in streaming.
> 
> I am just wondering with my gear and my media would I notice much of a difference.


Haven't you answered your own question, or is this one of those Canuk mind games?


----------



## Dana Reed

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> edit: I see Alac is 16 bits, think bifrost is only 18bits so probably ain't that different


ALAC can be the same bit depth as FLAC.  On HDtracks, for instance, it's just another option for how to download your purchase, whether you get 44/16, 88/24, 96/24 or 192/24.
Apple released the codec as open source under Apache license in 2011, and there are numerous free converters to transcode between FLAC and ALAC.  The big advantage of ALAC for me, is that you can play those lossless files on my iPod classic 160GB, where it won't play FLAC.  Otherwise, my Pono, Hiby, Fiio, and Sony players all play both, and Roon also plays both.


----------



## schneller

So what are the going thoughts on BF2 as a little Yiggy A2? I'd be using USB and the SE outputs. I had my heart set on Y2 but... yeah...Covid. Even $699 would be an insane splurge. Is the BF2 king of the bank/buck hill?


----------



## ThanatosVI

schneller said:


> So what are the going thoughts on BF2 as a little Yiggy A2? I'd be using USB and the SE outputs. I had my heart set on Y2 but... yeah...Covid. Even $699 would be an insane splurge. Is the BF2 king of the bank/buck hill?



Bifrost2 is amazing bang for the Bucks.
However when your initial plan was an Yggdrasil I am not sure how long you will be happy before you're tempted to upgrade again.

In this price range the Bifrost2 is probably unbeatable.

King of the Bang/Buck Hill is still a regular Modi for 99$ - it's just so cheap that it's hard to Argue otherwise.

I personally will buy a Gungnir Multibit just as I initially planned. Knowing me, I'd je initially happy with the Bifrost but then still interested in the upgrade after some time.
So I will go directly to what I want which is overall cheaper than several smaller steps in between.


----------



## Byronb

ThanatosVI said:


> Bifrost2 is amazing bang for the Bucks.
> However when your initial plan was an Yggdrasil I am not sure how long you will be happy before you're tempted to upgrade again.
> 
> In this price range the Bifrost2 is probably unbeatable.
> ...


This was my thought as well; I have an original Bifrost that was upgraded to Multibit and I love it. But I really want a fully balanced system.


----------



## ActuallySparky

schneller said:


> So what are the going thoughts on BF2 as a little Yiggy A2? I'd be using USB and the SE outputs. I had my heart set on Y2 but... yeah...Covid. Even $699 would be an insane splurge. Is the BF2 king of the bank/buck hill?


As with all things sound, if you can find one locally to audition (might be tricky with the pandemic ) listening to a bifrost will answer your question better than I can.

That being said, I'm very impressed with my Bifrost 2. It's got a warm, relaxed sound that renders incredible detail. FLAC files have never sounded so... good! It and the Mojo have pretty much eliminated delta sigma DACs from my home listening.

I've never heard a Yiggy A2 though, so I can't comment on better/worse/different there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Has anyone had a chance to compare the BF2 to the Denafrips Ares?


----------



## kumar402

Shane D said:


> Hello folks. Thinking about perhaps getting a Bifrost 2, but wondering if the expenditure would worth it. $699.00 sounds very good! However I come from a far away land called Canada and the landed cost would be Very close to $1,200.00.
> I know dollar amounts and improvements are all relative, but I wanted to lay out my situation and get some feedback:
> 
> Say a guy is running a DAP (Sony NW-ZX300) to feed an SMSL SU-8 DAC to feed a Liquid Platinum amp, an SMSL SP200 amp and a MAD Ear+ HD II tube amp.
> ...



If you haven’t heard Multibit DAC or NOS DAC you are in for a surprise. You will notice major change in tonality and Timbre out of box.
Bifrost2 is a major upgrade from SMSL SU-8, mark my words. It’s worth the upgrade just for the tonality and timber that you will get out of it.
If you are someone who like little warm sound with very natural vocals then go for it.

PS: I was not at all aware that we can take digital out of Sony ZX300, can we?


----------



## Shane D

kumar402 said:


> If you haven’t heard Multibit DAC or NOS DAC you are in for a surprise. You will notice major change in tonality and Timbre out of box.
> Bifrost2 is a major upgrade from SMSL SU-8, mark my words. It’s worth the upgrade just for the tonality and timber that you will get out of it.
> If you are someone who like little warm sound with very natural vocals then go for it.
> 
> PS: I was not at all aware that we can take digital out of Sony ZX300, can we?



Thanks for the reply! It does sound interesting.

Yes, on the line out, but you have to buy a cable from Japan. I bought it through amazon.com or amazon.ca


----------



## AppleheadMay (May 12, 2020)

Searched this thread but still got some firmware update questions as I formatted the card corrrectly but when I put it in the Bifrost starts normally instead of flashing the lights for a longer period like in the video. I have an 8GB card though, not sure if that's a problem?

- if your unit already has the newest firmware then does it write over the firmware again or does it start normally?
- do you insert the card with the copper contacts facing up or down? I managed to insert it both ways and hope I didn't damage the slot.
- I read here you have to push the card all the way in but I can't get it more than halfway in no matter what side is up.
- is there any way to check in Windows what firmware you have?


----------



## XERO1 (May 12, 2020)

kumar402 said:


> If you haven’t heard Multibit DAC or NOS DAC you are in for a surprise. You will notice major change in tonality and Timbre out of box.
> Bifrost2 is a major upgrade from SMSL SU-8, mark my words. It’s worth the upgrade just for the tonality and timber that you will get out of it.


Even a Mimby is a major upgrade over the SU-8.

I owned both together. Sold the SU-8, kept the Mimby.


----------



## tafens

AppleheadMay said:


> Searched this thread but still got some firmware update questions as I formatted the card corrrectly but when I put it in the Bifrost starts normally instead of flashing the lights for a longer period like in the video. I have an 8GB card though, not sure if that's a problem?
> 
> - if your unit already has the newest firmware then does it write over the firmware again or does it start normally?
> - do you insert the card with the copper contacts facing up or down? I managed to insert it both ways and hope I didn't damage the slot.
> ...



I got my update card from Schiit, and it is an 8GB SanDisk MicroSD HC I. Copper contacts down IIRC. It was a bit fiddly to get it inserted properly, and the update only starts when the card is fully inserted.


----------



## AppleheadMay (May 12, 2020)

tafens said:


> I got my update card from Schiit, and it is an 8GB SanDisk MicroSD HC I. Copper contacts down IIRC. It was a bit fiddly to get it inserted properly, and the update only starts when the card is fully inserted.




I managed to get the card in contacts down and contacts up, looks and feels the same but thanks for letting me know it's contacts down.
Weird it can go in both ways since it has a pretty explicit notch.

Do you mean the card has to go all the way into the amp so only 1mm or so sticks out?
I push as hard as I can but it only gets halfway in (half of the card that is), I' think I'd need a hammer to get it in more.
Or the thing is damaged from pushing it halfway in upside-down.
I contacted support.

No update is starting but maybe I already have the latest firmware and then the update doesn't start?


----------



## Relaxasaurus (May 12, 2020)

Any kind soul willing to let me borrow their Bifrost 2 or Gungnir multibit for a big DAC shootout review? Currently comparing the ARES II, ADI-2, Chord Qutest, and probably a Denafrips Pontus. Wanted to get Multibit in the mix.

I'll buy you a beer, or a nice scotch


----------



## Gregg

Any news yet about Bifrost ship dates? 
Is May 22 still the target ship date, or will this slip again?


----------



## mykeldg

XERO1 said:


> Even a Mimby is a major upgrade over the SU-8.
> 
> I owned both together. Sold the SU-8, kept the Mimby.


ditto.

I had d50s compare dto the mimby and it was no comparison. Now I have the E30 (which is better measuring than the d50s) and its still behind the mimby


----------



## blackdragon87

Gregg said:


> Any news yet about Bifrost ship dates?
> Is May 22 still the target ship date, or will this slip again?



would really like to know as well. seriously considering ordering one


----------



## rkw

Gregg said:


> Any news yet about Bifrost ship dates?
> Is May 22 still the target ship date, or will this slip again?





blackdragon87 said:


> would really like to know as well. seriously considering ordering one


@Jason Stoddard has said repeatedly to contact Schiit (info@schiit.com) for latest information.


----------



## tafens

AppleheadMay said:


> I managed to get the card in contacts down and contacts up, looks and feels the same but thanks for letting me know it's contacts down.
> Weird it can go in both ways since it has a pretty explicit notch.
> 
> Do you mean the card has to go all the way into the amp so only 1mm or so sticks out?
> ...



As far as I recall there was more than 1 mm sticking out also when it was fully inserted, but it was a while ago, so I’m not sure how much it was.

It would be great if the video of the blinkenlights updating Bifrost could be amended with some footage of the back of the Bifrost with the SD-card inserted in the slot.


----------



## ksb643

tafens said:


> As far as I recall there was more than 1 mm sticking out also when it was fully inserted, but it was a while ago, so I’m not sure how much it was.
> 
> It would be great if the video of the blinkenlights updating Bifrost could be amended with some footage of the back of the Bifrost with the SD-card inserted in the slot.


Try using a flashlight and seeing if you can see the contacts.


----------



## AppleheadMay

tafens said:


> As far as I recall there was more than 1 mm sticking out also when it was fully inserted, but it was a while ago, so I’m not sure how much it was.
> It would be great if the video of the blinkenlights updating Bifrost could be amended with some footage of the back of the Bifrost with the SD-card inserted in the slot.


Yes, if I look at the pictures of the innards there's no way a whole card can go in, only about half of it.




ksb643 said:


> Try using a flashlight and seeing if you can see the contacts.


I did try that but it's hard to see.

I contacted Schiit and they think the card sticks out a bit, contacts of the card should be facing down, inserting upside down does no damage and if you already have the latest firmware it probably doesn't get overwritten but reboots normally.


----------



## h.rav

Guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare the BF2 to the Denafrips Ares?



I have both Ares II and BF2. IMHO, BF2 sounds better: better staging, easy on the ears, and at the same time very detailed.
I have not spent more time comparing the two since my initial comparison, my Ares II will definitely go for sale soon.


----------



## jaboki

blackdragon87 said:


> would really like to know as well. seriously considering ordering one



Response I got today: "Unfortunately it is going to be longer than originally anticipated.  We haven’t yet received the parts we are waiting on.  It could be a couple weeks before it is able to ship.  I’m sorry for the wait."


----------



## Shane D

jaboki said:


> Response I got today: "Unfortunately it is going to be longer than originally anticipated.  We haven’t yet received the parts we are waiting on.  It could be a couple weeks before it is able to ship.  I’m sorry for the wait."



Wow! That is a VERY long wait.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

jaboki said:


> Response I got today: "Unfortunately it is going to be longer than originally anticipated.  We haven’t yet received the parts we are waiting on.  It could be a couple weeks before it is able to ship.  I’m sorry for the wait."


Schiiiiiiiiieeeet


----------



## jaboki

Relaxasaurus said:


> Schiiiiiiiiieeeet


Don't like your RME anymore?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

jaboki said:


> Don't like your RME anymore?


I still love it  I'm a reviewer and was going to make a DAC shootout with a number of units but that idea is shot for now.

Currawong loves Schiit DACs and says they are a great in-between for standard delta sigma implementations and the more musical R2R options. I was hoping to add it to my little setup but maybe another time.


----------



## Voxata

kumar402 said:


> If you haven’t heard Multibit DAC or NOS DAC you are in for a surprise. You will notice major change in tonality and Timbre out of box.
> Bifrost2 is a major upgrade from SMSL SU-8, mark my words. It’s worth the upgrade just for the tonality and timber that you will get out of it.
> If you are someone who like little warm sound with very natural vocals then go for it.
> 
> PS: I was not at all aware that we can take digital out of Sony ZX300, can we?



There is a cable for digital out. I've got one, used to be hard to track down.


----------



## blackdragon87

jaboki said:


> Response I got today: "Unfortunately it is going to be longer than originally anticipated.  We haven’t yet received the parts we are waiting on.  It could be a couple weeks before it is able to ship.  I’m sorry for the wait."



Thanks for the update


----------



## aGloveSupreme

Oh what the Scheeiiiiiiiitt. I've got one pre-ordered as well. I know it's not their fault, far from it. My only issue is that the longer I wait, the more I have to consider cancelling and ordering an yggdrasil GS. Not sure that would make sense if only using the SE outputs.. but I'm considering. Ahhhhhh!!!!


----------



## tafens

aGloveSupreme said:


> Oh what the Scheeiiiiiiiitt. I've got one pre-ordered as well. I know it's not their fault, far from it. My only issue is that the longer I wait, the more I have to consider cancelling and ordering an yggdrasil GS. Not sure that would make sense if only using the SE outputs.. but I'm considering. Ahhhhhh!!!!



It would actually be very interesting to know how the Bifrost2 compares to the YggdrasilGS, especially single-ended outputs


----------



## kumar402 (May 22, 2020)

tafens said:


> It would actually be very interesting to know how the Bifrost2 compares to the YggdrasilGS, especially single-ended outputs


Bifrost is better if the intended use is thru single ended output. Also Bifrost has more agreeable sound and hence is easier to be put in any setup.
Yggdrasil like any other high end DAC needs careful selection of downstream gear.
The DAC is worth the wait.


----------



## kumar402

I see someone is selling Gungnir. If you use balanced out then you can get Gungnir. Slightly colder sound as compared to Bifrost but technically an upgrade 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-schiit-gungnir-multibit-gen-5-usb.932923/


----------



## aGloveSupreme

kumar402 said:


> Bifrost is better if the intended use is thru single ended output. Also Bifrost has more agreeable sound and hence is easier to be put in any setup.
> Yggdrasil like any other high end DAC needs careful selection of downstream gear.
> The DAC is worth the wait.


Thank you good sir. One day, if I’m lucky, I will have another setup in another room of which I will perhaps attempt to build a different style of amp, maybe something solid state class a. I wonder if balance inputs can be implemented into a pass labs first watt design. Anyways maybe that is the time for an Yggy. I shall wait for the bifrost 2 with baited breath. You’ve done us a great service.


----------



## rsnblmn

Me, reading this thread update.



Ah well, it is what it is.


----------



## aGloveSupreme

rsnblmn said:


> Me, reading this thread update.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well, it is what it is.



The one and only scheeeeeiiiiiiiiitttttt


----------



## Andrew Rieger (May 23, 2020)

Post redacted.


----------



## tafens

Andrew Rieger said:


> I think I'm gonna pull the plug on my order and go with something else. I just can't wait any longer. I stupidly sold my DAC to fund the Bifrost, not knowing about the parts delay. I haven't been able to listen to any music for about a month now. I'm sure it's a great unit but these delays are getting a little ridiculous. I heard they are waiting on one supplier for the PCB's. It might be time to find another supplier.



The $99 Modi comes to mind as a nice filler-in while waiting. Plus it’s great to have as a backup or in a second system when the Bifrost2 arrives.
Unless the Modi is also on backorder, that is


----------



## barbz127

I see the website says 6-9, is this week's? It's not showing anything more for me.

And would anyone have any issues buying a second hand bifrost 2 in lieu of available new stock?

Thankyou


----------



## rkw

barbz127 said:


> I see the website says 6-9, is this week's? It's not showing anything more for me.


I think they made a mistake while updating the website. You should email info@schiit.com and ask for a clarification.


----------



## rsnblmn

barbz127 said:


> I see the website says 6-9, is this week's? It's not showing anything more for me.



I'm pretty sure this means that they hope to have Bifrost 2 in stock by June 9th, so about three weeks from now, I guess.

Fingers crossed that it can be a Father's Day present to myself, depending on how many backorders deep I am.


----------



## Sean_MR

Trying to understand the technology a little better!  Since this has 18 bits of converting power, does that mean it “works best” with 16-bit songs?  When you play a 24-bit song, what “happens” to the other 6 bits?  Probably dumb questions but trying to learn


----------



## XERO1 (Jun 18, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> Trying to understand the technology a little better!  Since this has 18 bits of converting power, does that mean it “works best” with 16-bit songs?  When you play a 24-bit song, what “happens” to the other 6 bits?  Probably dumb questions but trying to learn


Bit depth is a very misunderstood part of digital encoding/decoding.  The primary reason for needing more than 16-bit word-lengths was that professional recording studios often use dozens of (sometimes well over 100) individual tracks to create a mix, and as those tracks begin to be layered on top of each other, the combined quantization noise of all of the individual 16-bit tracks becomes more and more audible. With 24-bit depth, the quatization noise floor is reduced by 48 dBs, so this gives a huge improvement in the noise floor of the final mix if the track count is really high. But once the final mix has been created, it can then be truncated down to 16 bits with almost zero audible loss when compared to the original 24-bit master.

Between sample rate and bit depth, sample rate has _*by far*_ the most siginicant impact on overall SQ.

Here is a great, easy to understand video that helps explain the audible significance of bit depth.



As far as what happens to the extra bits, IIRC, Make Moffat was asked this same question on Head-Fi and I believe he said that the lowest LSB’s (Least Significant Bit) of a 24-bit track were not just thrown away, but were averaged together.  I'm fuzzy on the details about how this is done, so maybe someone else can comment about this.


----------



## Sean_MR

XERO1 said:


> Bit depth is a very misunderstood part of digital encoding/decoding.  The main reason for needing more than 16 bits was that professional recording studios often use dozens (sometimes well over 100) of individual tracks to create a mix, and as those tracks begin to be layered on top of each other, the quantization noise floor of each of the 16-bit tracks becomes more and more audible. With 24-bit depth, the quatization noise floor is reduced by 48 dBs, so this gives a huge improvement in the noise floor of the final mix if the track count is really high. But once the final mix has been created, it can be down-sampled to 16 bits with almost zero audible loss when compared to the 24-bit master mix.
> 
> Between sample rate and bit depth, sample rate has _*by far*_ the most siginicant impact on overall SQ.
> 
> ...



Thank you for all the information!  I’ve added that video to my watch list and am definitely interested in getting to it.  So if I interpreted correctly, the Bifrost 2 won’t necessarily “work better” with 16-bit songs, since 24-bits is hardly audibly better anyways?


----------



## XERO1 (May 30, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> Thank you for all the information!  I’ve added that video to my watch list and am definitely interested in getting to it.  So if I interpreted correctly, the Bifrost 2 won’t necessarily “work better” with 16-bit songs, since 24-bits is hardly audibly better anyways?


Pretty much.


----------



## ev666il (May 30, 2020)

XERO1 said:


> Bit depth is a very misunderstood part of digital encoding/decoding.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Between sample rate and bit depth, sample rate has _*by far*_ the most siginicant impact on overall SQ.



I agree 100% about bit depth. When it comes to digital audio, the word "resolution" is not a synonym to—nor does it imply the concept of—"definition" in the same way it does in the video world. This is a common misconception, and one "high-resolution" music vendors are happy to perpetuate and exploit.

Here's another easy-to-understand video that explains bit depth and performs a classic null test between the 24-bit and 16-bit version of the same audio file:



I do not, however, fully agree with your sentiment on sample rate. 44.1Khz is more than enough to capture the full band of frequencies the human ear can perceive—and indeed more, depending on your age and general hearing. I, for example, can't hear beyond 16Khz (and my hearing between 15.5Khz and 16Khz is such that those frequencies are easily masked in the presence of literally any other sound.) Higher sampling rates can be useful during mixing and mastering, but they won't make an audible difference when it comes to playback. Here's a video that explores the subject:




Either way, I own 24-bit FLAC files and the Bifrost 2 handles them with ease


----------



## XERO1 (May 30, 2020)

The reason why I said that sample rate is far more important than bit depth was not because of it's effect on a recording's frequency response (although this is important too, but to a much lesser degree).  The main benefit of a higher sample rate is that it can track an acoustic waveform's *impulse response* much more accurately than a lower sample rate can.






This is the main reason why 2.82MHz DSD is considered to sound closer to the sound of analog tape than 192KHz PCM (DSD has a nearly 15x higher SR than 192K PCM), and why DSD is often considered the most 'analog sounding' of the popular digital recording formats. The human ear (and analog tape) effectively has a near infinite impluse response capacity, and the closer a digital format can come to emulating that, the more natural it will sound to us.

And the higher frequency response capability that you *also* get with a higher sample rate, I see as just a 'bonus feature' that you get *in addition* to the main benefit of having a high impulse response.

But I agree with you, that having a FR higher than 20kHz has much less audible impact than all of the marking fluff would have us believe.


----------



## jkpenrose

Sean_MR said:


> Thank you for all the information!  I’ve added that video to my watch list and am definitely interested in getting to it.  So if I interpreted correctly, the Bifrost 2 won’t necessarily “work better” with 16-bit songs, since 24-bits is hardly audibly better anyways?



I am not an audio engineer and may not understand this fully, and this is from many years ago, but my understanding is that greater bit depth translates to greater dynamic range. With digital volume control the signals dynamic range is compressed in the digital domain (effectively reducing the bit depth of the source) and brings the audible information closer to the noise floor - when you run this signal to an amplifier after the conversion the noise is also amplified and can become audible. 

This is why, as I understand it, that doing digital volume control (back in the day) could degrade the sound and that you should do volume control with high quality analog gain after the signal was converted, and why you should feed your pre-amp/amp at full line level. 

One way around this, is for the dac to upsamole the incoming signal to a higher bit rate before applying digital volume control and converting the signal to analog - this helps preserve the separation of the sound we want (music) from the noise we don't want - when processing in the digital domain. 

But if you are not doing digital volume control - the extra bits don't matter (at least for this reason) because 16 bits provides plenty of dynamic range to cover what we can hear, while keeping the noise below audible levels. 

If I've got this wrong, someone with more knowledge and understanding please clarify!


----------



## rkw

jkpenrose said:


> my understanding is that greater bit depth translates to greater dynamic range


No, that is not correct. Greater bit depth translates to higher resolution of dynamic level, but the dynamic range is the same. As an analogy, imagine a 1 foot ruler. One ruler is marked only in inches, and another ruler has 1/16 inch markings. They both measure the same minimum to maximum (1 foot) which is like dynamic range, but the one with 1/16 markings can measure more accurately, which is like having greater bit depth.


----------



## roskodan

I always wondered how would a discussion about audio, between beings from different universes, look like. This must be it!


----------



## aGloveSupreme

roskodan said:


> I always wondered how would a discussion about audio, between beings from different universes, look like. This must be it!


Audio is a bit more difficult to get a handle on for folks that anything visual. We experience things through our vision first and foremost IMO. 

I find it interesting that if you are to do a blind tasting or say, jolly ranchers, it would be very difficult to actually pick out what flavour is what, but if you see them first it’s very obvious. It’s the same with great food, say Michelin star restaurant food. If you see it first, then eat it, well.. you can taste the nuances. If you were to go blindfolded that wouldn’t be the case.
I
I don’t think that it’s the case or seeing is believing, I think it’s a case of the brain knowing what to focus on. Take wine or scotch tasting for example.. if the tasting notes are given to you it gives you the ability to concentrate on trying to taste those notes yourself. Without such guidance you may very well miss out.

it’s not placebo, and it’s not BS. people actually need a heads up on what to pay attention to in order to fully appreciate what it has to offer.

still waiting on my Bifrost 2. Hopefully just another couple of weeks.


----------



## jkpenrose

rkw said:


> No, that is not correct. Greater bit depth translates to higher resolution of dynamic level, but the dynamic range is the same. As an analogy, imagine a 1 foot ruler. One ruler is marked only in inches, and another ruler has 1/16 inch markings. They both measure the same minimum to maximum (1 foot) which is like dynamic range, but the one with 1/16 markings can measure more accurately, which is like having greater bit depth.


 





rkw said:


> No, that is not correct. Greater bit depth translates to higher resolution of dynamic level, but the dynamic range is the same. As an analogy, imagine a 1 foot ruler. One ruler is marked only in inches, and another ruler has 1/16 inch markings. They both measure the same minimum to maximum (1 foot) which is like dynamic range, but the one with 1/16 markings can measure more accurately, which is like having greater bit depth.



Thanks rkw... I didn't mean to imply that upspampling to more bits for playback adds dynamic range to the original signal. 

Though as I understand it, recording at higher bit rates could capture a greater dynamic range - which at 16 bits already covers the difference between the loudest and softest passages of almost all music. The benefit of doing so would be, as you say, smaller, more precise detail of volume differences (whether we can discern those differences is a different question  but also more discrete steps between the noise we don't want and the sound we do - which is beneficial in mixing, mastering and filtering - as I understand it - which granted, could be wrong 😂

But for playback, discerning the volume differences between 16bit and 24bit is theoretically beyond our ability to hear - certainly it is beyond mine - or at least I think so! 

I think it was an old article on ESS Sabre 32 chip that described the benefits of bit rate upspampling for digital volume control (but this was many, many years ago) and while it made sense to me, maybe was just marketing propaganda. 

I use to be more concerned about the technical stuff, which is still interesting, but now it is way more about enjoying the experience - even if what I hear is placebo or snake oil - if I LIKE it better - that's enough these days. 

For example, last night I listened to flac files from Amazon hd vs the same files on YouTube music... And despite the blind tests I have seen that demonstrate our (or most people's) inability to distinguish between lossy and lossless formats - the flac files were a little more precise in imaging, a little clearer on vocal reproduction, a little more enjoyable and I liked them better - even though not a night and day difference on my es100 and meze 99s - nice, but certainly not top end. 

All that said and to stay on topic, I'm inclined to trust Jason and torq and many others that the Bifrost 2 sounds great and is technically competent - whether I like it better than what I have, I'll only know for sure when I get one


----------



## Sean_MR

XERO1 said:


> Pretty much.


Wow this sparked a lot more than I was intending.  But I did watch the video, and wow it was fascinating!  It honestly blew my mind it was really interesting to me to learn that adding bits doesn’t actually increase detail or resolution.  I definitely learned something new  thanks for the link!


----------



## Sean_MR

jkpenrose said:


> I am not an audio engineer and may not understand this fully, and this is from many years ago, but my understanding is that greater bit depth translates to greater dynamic range. With digital volume control the signals dynamic range is compressed in the digital domain (effectively reducing the bit depth of the source) and brings the audible information closer to the noise floor - when you run this signal to an amplifier after the conversion the noise is also amplified and can become audible.
> 
> This is why, as I understand it, that doing digital volume control (back in the day) could degrade the sound and that you should do volume control with high quality analog gain after the signal was converted, and why you should feed your pre-amp/amp at full line level.
> 
> ...


So is that why people usually give the rule of thumb of maxing out your digital source, then making adjustments on your amp?  Or is that unrelated?


----------



## jkpenrose

Sean_MR said:


> So is that why people usually give the rule of thumb of maxing out your digital source, then making adjustments on your amp?  Or is that unrelated?



Thats where I first came across that... But that was way back when we still bought CD players! 

Now that dsp chips are more powerful, you can adjust volume in the digital domain without issue


----------



## jkpenrose

Sean_MR said:


> Wow this sparked a lot more than I was intending.  But I did watch the video, and wow it was fascinating!  It honestly blew my mind it was really interesting to me to learn that adding bits doesn’t actually increase detail or resolution.  I definitely learned something new  thanks for the link!



Definitely sent me down the research path instead of the other things I was supposed to do today  

Came across a very interesting interview with Rob Watts - designer of chord products... And why he believes in oversampling. 

He talks a lot about our sensitivity to timing and transients in music and how there is much we don't understand about how our brains perceive/translate audio signals... He says we are much more sensitive to those cues than to frequency or bit depth - for things like imaging, soundstage, etc.

Also said measurement is important because we can hear what we measure BUT that we can't measure everything that we hear - so measurements only tell you if something sounds bad, not if it sounds good


----------



## XERO1 (May 31, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> Wow this sparked a lot more than I was intending.  But I did watch the video, and wow it was fascinating!  It honestly blew my mind it was really interesting to me to learn that adding bits doesn’t actually increase detail or resolution.  I definitely learned something new  thanks for the link!






*Knowing Is Half The Battle!*


----------



## XERO1 (May 31, 2020)

jkpenrose said:


> Also said measurement is important because we can hear what we measure BUT that we can't measure everything that we hear - so measurements only tell you if something sounds bad, not if it sounds good


Brilliantlly put!


----------



## XERO1 (May 31, 2020)

Sean_MR said:


> So is that why people usually give the rule of thumb of maxing out your digital source, then making adjustments on your amp?  Or is that unrelated?


That is one of the reasons, but the main reason you should do it is because you always want to have your DAC outputing at it's highest voltage level so that you maximize the DAC's SNR (Signal-to-Noise Ratio).

This can be controlled by your DAC (if it has a digital volume control), or your PC (via it's digial volume control), or both.

Doing this insures that the noisefloor coming from the DAC (that is created by it's analog circuits) will be as low as it possibly can be.


----------



## rsnblmn

😭


----------



## jaboki

rsnblmn said:


> 😭


i feel like they push it back 3 weeks every update. =/


----------



## jkpenrose

jaboki said:


> i feel like they push it back 3 weeks every update. =/



I'm waiting to order one too. Currently have a vali-2 and have had great experience with Schiit as a company. 

I'm sure they are frustrated too!  LOL


----------



## rsnblmn

jkpenrose said:


> I'm waiting to order one too. Currently have a vali-2 and have had great experience with Schiit as a company.
> 
> I'm sure they are frustrated too!  LOL



Yup. While I totally get that circumstances are outside their control and "it is what it is", I would prefer there was just a bit more transparency with this delay. Maybe I'm spoiled since Schiit is normally crazily transparent about almost everything else, and in this case maybe they're just being overly optimistic and keep missing their dates, but I'd rather them under-promise and over-deliver on the delay rather than keep getting my hopes up. Just tell us straight up if it'll be another two months, or whatever the worst case scenario is. Then, if I get a surprise shipping notice, I'll be overjoyed instead of disappointed repeatedly.  (Maybe that is what they're doing with the June 30 update? Fingers crossed...)


----------



## ThanatosVI

rsnblmn said:


> Yup. While I totally get that circumstances are outside their control and "it is what it is", I would prefer there was just a bit more transparency with this delay. Maybe I'm spoiled since Schiit is normally crazily transparent about almost everything else, and in this case maybe they're just being overly optimistic and keep missing their dates, but I'd rather them under-promise and over-deliver on the delay rather than keep getting my hopes up. Just tell us straight up if it'll be another two months, or whatever the worst case scenario is. Then, if I get a surprise shipping notice, I'll be overjoyed instead of disappointed repeatedly.  (Maybe that is what they're doing with the June 30 update? Fingers crossed...)


My guess is, that they thenselves don't know, maybe their supplier is giving those dates and cant deliver on time.

It's ugly for all involved, however Schiit products are usually worth the wait.


----------



## aGloveSupreme

They really should be communicating this with their customers via email letting them know why there are further delays. Right now it’s anybody’s guess if the preorders up to this point are shipping tomorrow and if new orders will ship June 30th or of all orders will ship June 30th. No clue.


----------



## XERO1 (Jun 8, 2020)

rsnblmn said:


> 😭






I hate it when this kinda schiit happens! 

In order to keep my sanity, I just look at it like the product has been put on indefinite hold until further notice. That way, I can mentally get off the ship date rollercoaster.


----------



## sfoclt

Jesus


----------



## theveterans

You guys should fly to LA now since Schiitr has them in-stock last time I checked last Saturday 6/6/20


----------



## jaboki

rsnblmn said:


> Yup. While I totally get that circumstances are outside their control and "it is what it is", I would prefer there was just a bit more transparency with this delay. Maybe I'm spoiled since Schiit is normally crazily transparent about almost everything else, and in this case maybe they're just being overly optimistic and keep missing their dates, but I'd rather them under-promise and over-deliver on the delay rather than keep getting my hopes up. Just tell us straight up if it'll be another two months, or whatever the worst case scenario is. Then, if I get a surprise shipping notice, I'll be overjoyed instead of disappointed repeatedly.  (Maybe that is what they're doing with the June 30 update? Fingers crossed...)


Honestly, I think it's the supplier who is not being frank with Schiit and making them look bad. I'm sure they are being transparent as they can be at a professional level. I've only had great experiences with Schiit's customer service end to end.


----------



## MrPanda

jaboki said:


> Honestly, I think it's the supplier who is not being frank with Schiit and making them look bad. I'm sure they are being transparent as they can be at a professional level. I've only had great experiences with Schiit's customer service end to end.


I'm sure they have plenty of challenges these days, but, on the bright side, the Bifrost 2 is worth waiting for....


----------



## rsnblmn

theveterans said:


> You guys should fly to LA now since Schiitr has them in-stock last time I checked last Saturday 6/6/20



Lol...My sister just moved to Colorado from LA a couple of weeks ago. That would have been convenient.


----------



## rsnblmn

jaboki said:


> Honestly, I think it's the supplier who is not being frank with Schiit and making them look bad. I'm sure they are being transparent as they can be at a professional level. I've only had great experiences with Schiit's customer service end to end.



For sure, last I recall, it was the analog PCB supplier causing the delays from what I heard.

I have had nothing but stellar support from Schiit customer service as well and I have nothing bad to say about them whatsoever. 

I think I'll just take @XERO1 's advice and stop looking at the updates so I stop getting excited and then subsequently bummed out.


----------



## jkpenrose (Jun 9, 2020)

rsnblmn said:


> For sure, last I recall, it was the analog PCB supplier causing the delays from what I heard.
> 
> I have had nothing but stellar support from Schiit customer service as well and I have nothing bad to say about them whatsoever.
> 
> I think I'll just take @XERO1 's advice and stop looking at the updates so I stop getting excited and then subsequently bummed out.



From all the posts I've seen on this and other forums, they do a great job taking responsibility and owning their' schitt' - actually find that very refreshing. Both Jason and Mike are exactly the kind of people I prefer to deal with.

Not once have I seen them blame somebody else for their *** ups - or not do what they can to make things right for their customers.

I love what they have done and are doing in this product space - as much for their approach as for the actual products!


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Today, on another forum I can't name for ... reasons, Jason mentioned that they did get some boards in and some of the backorder Bifrost's will start shipping later in the week. Fingers crossed I'm not too far down on the list.


----------



## johnnyEars

This is a bummer. I was moving my Schiit stack to my bedroom for my self-isolation (since I’m a healthcare provider and I have vulnerable family members in my house, I’m keeping separate in the master bedroom) and I dropped my Modi 2. I spent two weeks figuring out what to get — I really wanted something between the Modi and the BiFrost, say a $200 Modi Super— and decided to splurge on the Bifrost2. I put my order in hours before the first delay notice... And of course, in the meantime, the Modius gets announced. Argh... gotta make that decision over again.

I think I will keep the Bifrost 2 in the end, because I’m think the balanced will work well with my next 2-channel upgrade (monoblock Aegirs). Hope it ships soon... I’m getting a little tired of using my portable DAC/Amp instead of my real amp


----------



## Gregg (Jun 9, 2020)

I see that the new "ship" date for Bifrost 2 is June 30.
By the time I order, maybe they'll have Bifrost 3.
Love my Lyr 3, but I'm getting tried of this delay schiit, and I'll bet that they are too.


----------



## Ninadada

theveterans said:


> You guys should fly to LA now since Schiitr has them in-stock last time I checked last Saturday 6/6/20


lol, I bought 1 of the remaining 3 after chatting with you Saturday!  Sounds amazing with my Lyr 3!


----------



## MrPanda

johnnyEars said:


> This is a bummer. I was moving my Schiit stack to my bedroom for my self-isolation (since I’m a healthcare provider and I have vulnerable family members in my house, I’m keeping separate in the master bedroom) and I dropped my Modi 2. I spent two weeks figuring out what to get — I really wanted something between the Modi and the BiFrost, say a $200 Modi Super— and decided to splurge on the Bifrost2. I put my order in hours before the first delay notice... And of course, in the meantime, the Modius gets announced. Argh... gotta make that decision over again.
> 
> I think I will keep the Bifrost 2 in the end, because I’m think the balanced will work well with my next 2-channel upgrade (monoblock Aegirs). Hope it ships soon... I’m getting a little tired of using my portable DAC/Amp instead of my real amp


Hope it arrives soon, but having received a BF2 a while back, I think you're going to find it well worth the wait!


----------



## theveterans

Ninadada said:


> lol, I bought 1 of the remaining 3 after chatting with you Saturday!  Sounds amazing with my Lyr 3!



Nice to meet you there too! Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 are an awesomesauce combination and Bifrost 2 is resolving enough to make the Lyr 3 sound incredibly dynamic and holographic. I wanted to hear the Lyr 3 coupled with HEDDphone as I've heard the HEDDphone with the Headamp GSX MK2 fed with Blu-DAVE only but wanted to hear if Lyr 3 will add an interesting flavor to it like more macrodynamics as we know Bifrost 2 slams with authority (Blu-DAVE with GSX MK2 sounds incredibly refined and ethereal, but having lighter macrodynamics out of the HEDDphone to my tastes)


----------



## MrPanda

theveterans said:


> Nice to meet you there too! Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 are an awesomesauce combination and Bifrost 2 is resolving enough to make the Lyr 3 sound incredibly dynamic and holographic. I wanted to hear the Lyr 3 coupled with HEDDphone as I've heard the HEDDphone with the Headamp GSX MK2 fed with Blu-DAVE only but wanted to hear if Lyr 3 will add an interesting flavor to it like more macrodynamics as we know Bifrost 2 slams with authority (Blu-DAVE with GSX MK2 sounds incredibly refined and ethereal, but having lighter macrodynamics out of the HEDDphone to my tastes)


That's interesting... I heard the HEDDphone at CanJam NYC, but not really with any music that really had much slam potential...   I've been running Bifrost 2 with a variety of amps, mostly Valhalla 2 with some phones, and THX 789 with my Focals...   I'd love to try BF2 and GSX MK2 with my Stellia's...


----------



## Marlowe (Jun 10, 2020)

I'm planning to get a new DAC next week and, according to Jason Stoddard's post yesterday on another site, the Bifrost 2 may be shipping by then. (Though even if he is correct, and he does acknowledge that nothing is really certain ATM, it is unclear when they will done clearing backorders and fulfilling new orders.) I'm still leaning towards putting in an order since I really want the Bifrost. At $770 including shipping and NJ sales tax, the Bifrost represents about the limit of my budget and the only DAC that seems to be a comparable alternative is the R-2R Denafrips Ares II (with free shipping and no tax, it is $2 cheaper) and that currently has a 2-3 week delay until it even ships from Singapore. I'd just as soon go with the US made Schiit for numerous reasons. (I guess I sound as impatient as I am. I'm currently five weeks into what appears to be a very long wait for a ZMF Aeolus which has sapped the little patience I normally have.)


----------



## LeMoviedave

So, my desire to upgrade never seems to be sated.  With the Headamp GS-X mini, and the Hifiman Arya (and other headphones in the future), what kind of difference would one find bumping up to the Yggdrasil GS?


----------



## BubbaJay

I'm using my Mimby again after not using it for over 6 months and I'm loving it but I want to know just how much better the Bifrost 2 is in comparison?  For me $699 is a big jump since I've never spent over $300 for a dac so it has to be a noticable improvement over the Mimby.  I'm sure it would be but I'd like to here what people think that have used both.


----------



## Ninadada

BubbaJay said:


> I'm using my Mimby again after not using it for over 6 months and I'm loving it but I want to know just how much better the Bifrost 2 is in comparison?  For me $699 is a big jump since I've never spent over $300 for a dac so it has to be a noticable improvement over the Mimby.  I'm sure it would be but I'd like to here what people think that have used both.


I have Mimby, Bimby, and BF2.  For me, BF2 had more noticeable improvement from Bimby than Bimby did from Mimby.


----------



## Ninadada

Marlowe said:


> I'm planning to get a new DAC next week and, according to Jason Stoddard's post yesterday on another site, the Bifrost 2 may be shipping by then. (Though even if he is correct, and he does acknowledge that nothing is really certain ATM, it is unclear when they will done clearing backorders and fulfilling new orders.) I'm still leaning towards putting in an order since I really want the Bifrost. At $770 including shipping and NJ sales tax, the Bifrost represents about the limit of my budget and the only DAC that seems to be a comparable alternative is the R-2R Denafrips Ares II (with free shipping and no tax, it is $2 cheaper) and that currently has a 2-3 week delay until it even ships from Singapore. I'd just as soon go with the US made Schiit for numerous reasons. (I guess I sound as impatient as I am. I'm currently five weeks into what appears to be a very long wait for a ZMF Aeolus which has sapped the little patience I normally have.)


Bifrost 2 is worth the wait.  I was skeptical it would be more of a side-grade from the original MB Bifrost but the improvements were quickly noticed.  I hear you on the patience part.  I ordered the Focal Elex from Drop on 4/28.  Ship date is 8/31!


----------



## ev666il

I echo the sentiment that Bifrost 2 is worth the wait. It is really good, plus it’s got the whole Autonomy thing going on that makes it easily upgradable without shipping it back to Schiit. I’m having a great time with it.


----------



## BubbaJay (Jun 11, 2020)

I'm leaning toward getting the BF2 because not only for the SQ but the fact it's easily upgradeable and I hope they do come out with upgraded modules in the future so you can do so.  Also, being able to use a micro sd card to update the firmware is really nice to.  All in all I think it would be worth the extra money it costs to get it.  I've been a Schiit customer for a few years now and have yet to be disappointed with one of their products.


----------



## Ninadada

BubbaJay said:


> I'm leaning toward getting the BF2 because not only for the SQ but the fact it's easily upgradeable and I hope they do come out with upgraded modules in the future so you can do so.  Also, being able to use a micro sd card to update the firmware is really nice to.  All in all I think it would be worth the extra money it costs to get it.  I've been a Schiit customer for a few years now and have yet to be disappointed with one of their products.


An amazing company indeed.  The upgradeable design is smart, but the irony is...I can't imagine any meaningful improvements on what is already an exceptionally high bar for this platform.  The black background can't get any blacker, and timbre, imaging, staging, clarity is already top notch.  As it stands, I imagine BF2 will eat into Gungnir sales as the delta has now become so small.


----------



## schneller

Has anyone spent time comparing BF2 and Yiggy A2 in a 2.0 speaker setup? Fed by USB using SE output?


----------



## LeMoviedave

Ninadada said:


> An amazing company indeed.  The upgradeable design is smart, but the irony is...I can't imagine any meaningful improvements on what is already an exceptionally high bar for this platform.  The black background can't get any blacker, and timbre, imaging, staging, clarity is already top notch.  As it stands, I imagine BF2 will eat into Gungnir sales as the delta has now become so small.


Well, they could add a module for AES connection.  They could add their Adapticlcok thingy to that.  They could create a module that would use 2 of the AD5791 chips, and literally make it a single ended Yggdrasil.  I am really hoping for that last one!  Looking at your signature, we have quite a bit in common.  Besides the Bifrost, I also have the Arya, AFC and HD650.  I am about to throw a GS-X Mini in the middle there.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Couldn't wait any longer and picked up a used Gumby










So far I *really* like this Schiit   Waiting on a Qutest to get here for the full review


----------



## Shane D

Relaxasaurus said:


> Couldn't wait any longer and picked up a used Gumby
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What are your thoughts on the Denafrips Ares II?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Shane D said:


> What are your thoughts on the Denafrips Ares II?


Initial impression is it's super smooth, I can see why it's so popular. Still trying to decide if what I'm hearing is actually more "natural" or not like R2R fans tout.


----------



## Shane D

Relaxasaurus said:


> Initial impression is it's super smooth, I can see why it's so popular. Still trying to decide if what I'm hearing is actually more "natural" or not like R2R fans tout.


I have been looking at it hard. $68.00 more than the BF2, but free shipping makes it almost a wash.


----------



## Marlowe (Jun 12, 2020)

Shane D said:


> I have been looking at it hard. $68.00 more than the BF2, but free shipping makes it almost a wash.


I've been looking at these two also. Schiit charges shipping (the Denafrips ships free) and US sales tax (I don't believe the Denafrips distributor in Singapore does). These items makes the Ares II not quite two dollars cheaper in New Jersey. I've pretty much decided to go with the Bifrost 2 though. FWIW (and it may not be worth much) Jason Stoddard claimed the other day its shipping was "imminent." Be aware that the Ares II is back to a 2-3 week delay before shipping.


----------



## rsnblmn

Marlowe said:


> I've been looking at these two also. Schiit charges shipping (the Denafrips ships free) and US sales tax (I don't believe the Denafrips distributor in Singapore does). These items makes the Ares II not quite two dollars cheaper in New Jersey. I've pretty much decided to go with the Bifrost 2 though. FWIW (and it may not be worth much) Jason Stoddard claimed the other day its shipping was "imminent." Be aware that the Ares II is back to a 2-3 week delay before shipping.



Plus there's the added bonus that the BF2 is upgradeable for future possible enhancements which will likely also make it retain better resale value in case you don't decide to keep it.


----------



## schneller

Relaxasaurus said:


> Couldn't wait any longer and picked up a used Gumby
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Will you be comparing Gumby and BF2? Gumby and Qutest? All three?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

schneller said:


> Will you be comparing Gumby and BF2? Gumby and Qutest? All three?


Will probably be a high level "What are the major differences & sound signatures between all these different types of DACs?" review (r2r, multibit, chip, fpga). Would love to compare to a BF2 but I can't seem to find one


----------



## Mkoll

rsnblmn said:


> Plus there's the added bonus that the BF2 is upgradeable for future possible enhancements which will likely also make it retain better resale value in case you don't decide to keep it.


And warranty issues are probably smoother with Schiit and almost certainly faster. My BF2 wouldn't power on (problem with power plug port) and from my shipping it out from halfway across the country to receiving it back fixed only took 13 days total.


----------



## rsnblmn

Mkoll said:


> And warranty issues are probably smoother with Schiit and almost certainly faster. My BF2 wouldn't power on (problem with power plug port) and from my shipping it out from halfway across the country to receiving it back fixed only took 13 days total.



For sure, Schiit customer service has been outstanding in my experience. Even through this super long, super annoying backorder delay, they've been very responsive, patient, and polite answering my status inquiries. Under normal non-pandemic circumstances, upgrade turnaround has always been quick for me in the past as well. I have not had any warranty issues with the gear I've owned so far, but I feel confident they will make things right if I do.


----------



## ev666il

Just chiming in to confirm that I too have had positive experiences with Schiit’s customer service. They replied to my emails very quickly even on Saturdays.


----------



## kumar402

Relaxasaurus said:


> Will probably be a high level "What are the major differences & sound signatures between all these different types of DACs?" review (r2r, multibit, chip, fpga). Would love to compare to a BF2 but I can't seem to find one


I have owned DS DAC, R2R OS, R2R NOS,Multibit, FPGA. I prefer Multibit and R2R NOS for headphone listening. Multibit a little more for speakers. Please do note even in MULTIBIT, Gungnir and Bifrost sound different. Bifrost is warmer comoared to Gungnir and is closer to NOS DAC like from Metrum.


----------



## kumar402

I remember before owning Metrum Onyx, I always had issue with headphone listening. I love warm and laid back sound. More like HD650 compared to HD600 and if you have sound preference like me then definitely you will prefer BF2 over Delta sigma or Chord atleast for headphone listening.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

kumar402 said:


> I have owned DS DAC, R2R OS, R2R NOS,Multibit, FPGA. I prefer Multibit and R2R NOS for headphone listening. Multibit a little more for speakers. Please do note even in MULTIBIT, Gungnir and Bifrost sound different. Bifrost is warmer comoared to Gungnir and is closer to NOS DAC like from Metrum.


So lend me your BF2 for the review  We're local!

Another review released last week says the Gumby is "richer, more revealing, and a livelier performer" compared to the Bifrost 2. Would be fun to compare directly.


----------



## kumar402

Relaxasaurus said:


> So lend me your BF2 for the review  We're local!
> 
> Another review released last week says the Gumby is "richer, more revealing, and a livelier performer" compared to the Bifrost 2. Would be fun to compare directly.


I would have but I'm not in US right now due to Covid lockdown. But even with Gungnir and Qutest you will see the clear difference between 2 completely different approach. I had both last year and compared them and preferred Gungnir over qutest.


----------



## rsnblmn

kumar402 said:


> I remember before owning Metrum Onyx, I always had issue with headphone listening. I love warm and laid back sound. More like HD650 compared to HD600 and if you have sound preference like me then definitely you will prefer BF2 over Delta sigma or Chord atleast for headphone listening.



Good to hear. That's exactly what I am hoping for. Hopefully I am not too much further down the backorder list!


----------



## ev666il

I know it has been said already, but I can’t stress enough how much the Bifrost 2 is worth the wait. Trust me on this one. Your patience shall be abundantly rewarded.


----------



## AlexanderM

My Bifrost 2 finally shipped!


----------



## rsnblmn

AlexanderM said:


> My Bifrost 2 finally shipped!



Congrats! I've been waiting for somebody to post that. It lives!!


----------



## AlexanderM

rsnblmn said:


> Congrats! I've been waiting for somebody to post that. It lives!!


I put my order on April 20


----------



## rsnblmn

AlexanderM said:


> I put my order on April 20



Thanks, that's within a few days of my order, so I hope I'm close!


----------



## johnnyEars

Mine too!!!


----------



## HumdrumPenguin

Had I not ordered mine earlier this year, I’d be waiting months like a duck on two audio products, with all sorts of thoughts going through my head in the mean time....

Hope you all on the waiting list all can enjoy it soon. It’s that good of a dac. Now I really really really really wanted and Yggy just to see what exactly I’m missing...


----------



## LeMoviedave

I was actually able to snag a Bifrost 2 b-stock monrhs ago.  I wonder what those odds were.


----------



## DougD

AlexanderM said:


> My Bifrost 2 finally shipped!


They're dancing in the streets of Schiitville today!!!


----------



## Marlowe (Jun 16, 2020)

I'm planning to buy a DAC this week. If the Bifrost was available, or I had a reasonable expectation that it would ship around the 6/30 date on Schiit's website (or even by, say, Bastille Day), I'd buy it. But I am currently six weeks into a wait for a ZMF Aeolus that looks nowhere near to ready and I really don't feel like investing almost $800 (with sales tax and shipping, which is a lot for me--I'm retired) into another piece of gear whose shipping date is even more mysterious. I bet they have a _lot_ of backorders to fulfill before they get to new orders and the parts delay may clang down once again. I'm inclined to go with the Topping D90 MQA, especially since it is on sale this week and virtually all my music listening is from Tidal. Reviewers who I respect have given it very good or better reviews. One spent a lot of time comparing it to the Bifrost; he gave the edge to the Bifrost, but found it quite close. I'm still pondering, but that's my inclination ATM. 

And TBH, I feel that Schiit has been less than candid about the situation, moving back the ship date multiple times without providing more information. I realize that the current situation is tough for everyone, but I'd feel more charitable if Schiit had just admitted that the situation was unpredictable and it would ship when it would ship. By doing what they did, it's impossible to trust anything they say now on the situation.


----------



## jnak00

Marlowe said:


> I'm planning to buy a DAC this week. If the Bifrost was available, or I had a reasonable expectation that it would ship around the 6/30 date on Schiit's website (or even by, say, Bastille Day), I'd buy it. But I am currently six weeks into a wait for a ZMF Aeolus that looks nowhere near to ready and I really don't feel like investing almost $800 (with sales tax and shipping, which is a lot for me--I'm retired) into another piece of gear whose shipping date is even more mysterious. I bet they have a _lot_ of backorders to fulfill before they get to new orders and the parts delay may clang down once again. I'm inclined to go with the Topping D90 MQA, especially since it is on sale this week and virtually all my music listening is from Tidal. Reviewers who I respect have given it very good or better reviews. One spent a lot of time comparing it to the Bifrost; he gave the edge to the Bifrost, but found it quite close. I'm still pondering, but that's my inclination ATM.
> 
> And TBH, I feel that Schiit has been less than candid about the situation, moving back the ship date multiple times without providing more information. I realize that the current situation is tough for everyone, but I'd feel more charitable if Schiit had just admitted that the situation was unpredictable and it would ship when it would ship. By doing what they did, it's impossible to trust anything they say now on the situation.



Waiting sucks, no question. And not knowing what's happening sucks too. But I am certain Schiit has never screwed over a customer's order and you would be safe placing an order...as long as you are OK waiting. Saying you can't trust Schiit because of the ship date slipping is a little extreme, IMO.


----------



## Currawong

Marlowe said:


> I feel that Schiit has been less than candid about the situation, moving back the ship date multiple times without providing more information.



Jason posted elsewhere that they are waiting on specific parts. What they are telling you is likely based on the same things their suppliers are saying, which can be equally unreliable.  Something to be happy for is that we have the internet and the ability to quickly communicate and find out what is going on. Better than a few decades ago!


----------



## Marlowe

jnak00 said:


> Waiting sucks, no question. And not knowing what's happening sucks too. But I am certain Schiit has never screwed over a customer's order and you would be safe placing an order...as long as you are OK waiting. Saying you can't trust Schiit because of the ship date slipping is a little extreme, IMO.


Boy, how in the world did you come up with that? I've made multiple purchases from Schiit, their CS has always been great, and it would never enter my mind not to trust them to fulfill my order. What I thought I clearly said was that I didn't trust what they said what they say about the Bifrost shipping date. I realize that they may well be getting bad estimates from their supplier, but whatever the reason, if I place an order now I have no idea when it will ship. I am absolutely confident that Schiit will ship it to me when they can but it could well be months. Or only weeks. My point is nobody knows and I don't feel like placing an order under those circumstances.


----------



## jnak00

Marlowe said:


> Boy, how in the world did you come up with that? I've made multiple purchases from Schiit, their CS has always been great, and it would never enter my mind not to trust them to fulfill my order. What I thought I clearly said was that I didn't trust what they said what they say about the Bifrost shipping date. I realize that they may well be getting bad estimates from their supplier, but whatever the reason, if I place an order now I have no idea when it will ship. I am absolutely confident that Schiit will ship it to me when they can but it could well be months. Or only weeks. My point is nobody knows and I don't feel like placing an order under those circumstances.



Sorry, misread that part. On first read it looked like you were saying you can't trust them but i misunderstood your meaning.


----------



## EagleWings

Hey guys, when the Bifrost 2 is shipped domestically, is there an invoice included in the box either outside or inside?

I am asking because, import duty that Indian Customs charges is high (~75%) and I am trying to use a shipping forwarding service. If there is no invoice included in the box, I will be able to provide an invoice showing a lower value, to avoid the high import duty.


----------



## ev666il

@Marlowe I can relate to your predicament. However, knowing myself I can tell you that in your place, were I to buy the Topping, I would then spend my time wondering whether I’d have been happier with the Bifrost 2 instead. That is, of course, entirely based on my own experience and personality; if you don’t have audio nervosa to the same extent that I have, you might indeed be better served purchasing the product that is available right now.


----------



## Rebel Chris

Take time out of the equation...why always the hurry? 

Give it 4 or 5 weeks, hopefully Covid and the riots are gone and everything will be back to normal.


----------



## rsnblmn

Got my shipping notice today as well, so they're definitely starting to work their way through the backorders by the looks of it. Have faith, everybody!


----------



## jaboki

rsnblmn said:


> Got my shipping notice today as well, so they're definitely starting to work their way through the backorders by the looks of it. Have faith, everybody!


I didn't get my shipping notice yet but they just charged by card!


----------



## j0val

jaboki said:


> I didn't get my shipping notice yet but they just charged by card!


When did you place your order? I just placed mine less than 2 weeks ago. I guess I probably shouldn't expect it until August/September based on what's been going on.


----------



## rsnblmn

j0val said:


> When did you place your order? I just placed mine less than 2 weeks ago. I guess I probably shouldn't expect it until August/September based on what's been going on.



Nah, I'm guessing yours will ship by sometime next week, assuming they have enough parts in stock to fill all the backorders. I placed my order on 4/27 and it shipped today. No guarantees, but I doubt current orders will be delayed much past the 6/30 estimate they currently have up as long as they don't run out of parts again.


----------



## jaboki

j0val said:


> When did you place your order? I just placed mine less than 2 weeks ago. I guess I probably shouldn't expect it until August/September based on what's been going on.



I ordered in May


----------



## j0val

rsnblmn said:


> Nah, I'm guessing yours will ship by sometime next week, assuming they have enough parts in stock to fill all the backorders. I placed my order on 4/27 and it shipped today. No guarantees, but I doubt current orders will be delayed much past the 6/30 estimate they currently have up as long as they don't run out of parts again.



Thanks for the optimism. I imagine they have a decent sized backlog of orders, so I won't get my hopes up. Looking forward to it though!


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

LeMoviedave said:


> I was actually able to snag a Bifrost 2 b-stock monrhs ago.  I wonder what those odds were.


Nice, how much was that if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## LeMoviedave

6





pinkfloyd4ever said:


> Nice, how much was that if you don't mind me asking?


640, maybe.  They just disappear. So quickly.


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

LeMoviedave said:


> 6
> 640, maybe.  They just disappear. So quickly.


How noticable is the cosmetic blemish?


----------



## LeMoviedave

pinkfloyd4ever said:


> How noticable is the cosmetic blemish?


I never looked that carefully.  A couple minor scratches.


----------



## Gregg

I ordered the Bf2 last night. With a little luck, the parts won't run out so soon that I don't have to wait weeks or months.
Thanks for everyone's input here.


----------



## jaboki

Yay my order shipped!


----------



## mab1376

My Bifrost 2 is on order and hopefully shipping soon, the first DAC upgrade since installing the uber analog card in 2015, bought the original unit in 2012.

Now the question is Unison USB or keep using my Eitr?


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

mab1376 said:


> Now the question is Unison USB or keep using my Eitr?


I'd say try it both ways, and let us know your thoughts!


----------



## TS0711

At best your Eitr is Schiit's gen 5 USB, so unless it is for an older (non-usb) dac I would go Unison.
But that's just my 2 cents.


----------



## Wes S

TS0711 said:


> At best your Eitr is Schiit's gen 5 USB, so unless it is for an older (non-usb) dac I would go Unison.
> But that's just my 2 cents.


Agreed.  Unison is the upgrade from Gen 5 (Eitr), so I would go with Unison.


----------



## mab1376

TS0711 said:


> At best your Eitr is Schiit's gen 5 USB, so unless it is for an older (non-usb) dac I would go Unison.
> But that's just my 2 cents.



Good point!


----------



## MrPanda

BubbaJay said:


> I'm using my Mimby again after not using it for over 6 months and I'm loving it but I want to know just how much better the Bifrost 2 is in comparison?  For me $699 is a big jump since I've never spent over $300 for a dac so it has to be a noticable improvement over the Mimby.  I'm sure it would be but I'd like to here what people think that have used both.


It's noticeable in some key areas.  Bass is better, spatial resolution is better.  There's more depth and better imaging.  For me though, the biggest difference has been the USB improvement.   I used to have a lot of gremlins in the sound from nearby electronics, motors, etc.  Not at all with the Unison USB...


----------



## mab1376

with Unison, has anyone compared WASAPI with ASIO4all?


----------



## jaboki

MrPanda said:


> It's noticeable in some key areas.  Bass is better, spatial resolution is better.  There's more depth and better imaging.  For me though, the biggest difference has been the USB improvement.   I used to have a lot of gremlins in the sound from nearby electronics, motors, etc.  Not at all with the Unison USB...



I've been using the Lyr Multibit Dac Module, and my Bifrost 2 just arrived. I hooked it up and I can tell you one thing that's super obvious: the sound is CRISP! Since the sound is so clean, everything sounds better: Bass, depth, imaging, etc. Worth every penny for anyone using the built-in add-on modules.


----------



## XERO1 (Jun 20, 2020)

Schiit just updated their B-Stock & Closeout page with a *Schiit-ton* of stuff, including 5 black Bifrost 2's for $649.  

So if you just can't wait another 10 days (or possibly even longer), here ya go!

I grabbed a (now discontinued) Eitr for $99! 

But remember, with B-stock and close-outs, all sales are final.

https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks

6-20-20 Edit - Nevermind, they're all gone now.


----------



## MtnMan307

XERO1 said:


> Schiit just updated their B-Stock & Closeout page with a Schiit-ton of stuff, including 5 black Bifrost 2's for $649.
> 
> So if you just can't wait another 10 days (or possibly even longer), here ya go!
> 
> ...


Yes they did.  Craaaaap.   I keep thinking, wow, if I like the Modius as well as I do, after having the Modi Multibit for a long time, the BF2 could be the one.  It could be an incredible DAC and an insane combination with Lyr 3.  Probably also very good with Jot and Vali 2.  Schiit!  I'm tempted bro!


----------



## j0val

MtnMan307 said:


> Yes they did.  Craaaaap.   I keep thinking, wow, if I like the Modius as well as I do, after having the Modi Multibit for a long time, the BF2 could be the one.  It could be an incredible DAC and an insane combination with Lyr 3.  Probably also very good with Jot and Vali 2.  Schiit!  I'm tempted bro!



This is what happened to me. I enjoyed the Modius upgrade so much that I ordered the BF2.


----------



## MtnMan307

j0val said:


> This is what happened to me. I enjoyed the Modius upgrade so much that I ordered the BF2.


I do love the Modius. It's so, so resolving.  So clean and razor sharp in a good way.  I think it's probably going to stay if I get the BF2.  

Modi Multibit is a beautiful DAC and, IMO, a very fine match for the Vali 2 and Lyr 3.  A real thing of beauty for $250.  Yet I'm thinking it's time to go to the BF2.  I'm on my second beer tonight and it's a kickass IPA, might be enough to convince me to do it.


----------



## j0val

MtnMan307 said:


> I do love the Modius. It's so, so resolving.  So clean and razor sharp in a good way.  I think it's probably going to stay if I get the BF2.
> 
> Modi Multibit is a beautiful DAC and, IMO, a very fine match for the Vali 2 and Lyr 3.  A real thing of beauty for $250.  Yet I'm thinking it's time to go to the BF2.  I'm on my second beer tonight and it's a kickass IPA, might be enough to convince me to do it.



Personally, I thought I should order it and just be done with it. Yes it's way more money, but I think I'd spend more in the long run if I didn't get it now.


----------



## MtnMan307

j0val said:


> Personally, I thought I should order it and just be done with it. Yes it's way more money, but I think I'd spend more in the long run if I didn't get it now.


I know that's how life tends to be.  Sometimes you have to bite the bullet.


----------



## j0val

MtnMan307 said:


> I know that's how life tends to be.  Sometimes you have to bite the bullet.



Yeah. It's dangerous. I also ordered an LCD2 to go along with the Asgard 3/BF2 stack. Hope it pairs well. Do people still listen to Audeze?


----------



## MtnMan307

I actually bought a used LCD2 on eBay once.  The right driver went out on them and I'm not sure what to do. Send back to Audeze? 

That is a very good headphone.  I know it does very well with the Lyr 3 and Jotunheim.


----------



## XERO1

MtnMan307 said:


> Yet I'm thinking it's time to go to the BF2.  I'm on my second beer tonight and it's a kickass IPA, might be enough to convince me to do it.


Third beer's the charm!


----------



## MtnMan307

Definitely enjoying the Jot/Modius with 650s and the IPA as we speak.


----------



## MtnMan307

Man.... $649 though for a B-stock BF2.

By way of comparison, I bought a .30-06 rifle back in 2006, when I was 22 and fresh out of the Army.  I still have that rifle and have taken several animals with it.  One of the best purchases I have ever made in my life.  Accurate, powerful, and a very versatile setup.  I paid $657 for it.  

Now I'm looking at a DAC that, while less expensive than some of my guns, costs nearly as much as my all-purpose utility hunting rifle.


----------



## ev666il

It’s a pretty good DAC though, so there’s that


----------



## MtnMan307

Knowing the value Schiit delivers for the money, I have no doubt it is a very fine DAC.


----------



## Ripper2860

Go ahead and buy it, already!!  I keep checking-in and it's past my bed time!!


----------



## MtnMan307

Ripper2860 said:


> Go ahead and buy it, already!!  I keep checking-in and it's past my bed time!!


I just did!  I've waited long enough.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thank you.  Now I can go to sleep!!  

You won't regret it.


----------



## ev666il

Ripper2860 said:


> You won't regret it.



+1

It’s so good it should be illegal


----------



## Ninadada

+2, no regerts!


----------



## XERO1 (Jun 25, 2020)

MtnMan307 said:


> I just did!  I've waited long enough.





*Congrats!!*


----------



## Rattle

j0val said:


> Yeah. It's dangerous. I also ordered an LCD2 to go along with the Asgard 3/BF2 stack. Hope it pairs well. Do people still listen to Audeze?



You'll be happy, I don't have BF2 but I have modi multibit and modius and Asgard 3. LCD2F pairs awesome with one of my favorite combos out of all my amps and cans.


----------



## MtnMan307

I think my best headphone listening experience ever was at a dealer in Bozeman, Montana. I got to try a pair of LCD-X. Listened to Forty Six and 2 by Tool.

It was absolutely incredible. The speed, realism, sense of an enveloping soundstage. I haven’t been able to duplicate it ever since.


----------



## theveterans

I don’t know how Schiit can still price this DAC at $699 but I’m now even more impressed with this Schiit after extensive A/B listening with my AK SP2000 DAP in lineout mode through Schiit Saga preamp. While the AK can match the Bifrost 2 in sheer resolution and transients and maybe a tiny bit blacker background with the SP2000, the SP2000 just pales in painting the sound image that Bifrost 2 can portray with the SP2000 having less holographic soundstage presentation in all axis. Bifrost 2 can easily make your speakers sound even wider, deeper and more holographic than other DACs that cost many times than the Bifrost 2. It’s the only DAC other than Gungnir Multibit A2 and Yggdrasil A2 that made the illusion that the sound that came out of the Yamaha HS7 that’s even wider and deeper than their physical distance


----------



## AlexanderM

Hi guys,
I had Synology DS115 NAS as my music server connected to Cambridge Audio DACMagic 100 DAC via USB for a long time. It worked perfectly, I was controlling it through DS Audio app on my iPhone as a remote. Recently I got Schiit Bifrost 2 with Unison USB. I still want to use my Synology DS but when I connected it to Bifrost there is no any sound. Optical and coax connections from other sources work fine. Does anyone experienced problems with Synology DS and Unision USB DAC?


----------



## tafens

AlexanderM said:


> Hi guys,
> I had Synology DS115 NAS as my music server connected to Cambridge Audio DACMagic 100 DAC via USB for a long time. It worked perfectly, I was controlling it through DS Audio app on my iPhone as a remote. Recently I got Schiit Bifrost 2 with Unison USB. I still want to use my Synology DS but when I connected it to Bifrost there is no any sound. Optical and coax connections from other sources work fine. Does anyone experienced problems with Synology DS and Unision USB DAC?



Does the Bifrost2 work when connected via USB to a computer running Windows10, MacOS X or any recent Linux distribution? If so I’d suspect that the Synology DS only supports USB Audio class 1, but the Bifrost2 requires USB Audio class 2.


----------



## AlexanderM

tafens said:


> Does the Bifrost2 work when connected via USB to a computer running Windows10, MacOS X or any recent Linux distribution? If so I’d suspect that the Synology DS only supports USB Audio class 1, but the Bifrost2 requires USB Audio class 2.


It does work when connected to MacOSX


----------



## monkey5949

MtnMan307 said:


> I think my best headphone listening experience ever was at a dealer in Bozeman, Montana. I got to try a pair of LCD-X. Listened to Forty Six and 2 by Tool.
> 
> It was absolutely incredible. The speed, realism, sense of an enveloping sound stage. I haven’t been able to duplicate it ever since.



Super stoked to read this.....just getting into Schiit and solid audio as a whole......went from Fulla->SMSL SP200->Asgard 3 & Bifrost 2........next upgrade is gonna be a set of LCD 2 or LCD -X. Tool is the right music for me as well
Right now running Schiit stack on  DT770's 80 Ohm and Meze Noirs and occasionally HarmonicDyne Helios. The switch from SP200 to Schiit stack convinced me to keep the DT 770's - amazing how the shift in audio chain can influence cans.


----------



## hiImGrant

My backordered BF2 showed up this weekend. I’m impressed. It’s interesting to have ease of listening (smooth sound) without losing any detail. I would assume smoothing sound might have that kind of trade off but this has every bit of detail I would get from an ADI2 but the sound I’m hearing is so much less fatiguing.

I got a similar feeling moving from the ADI2 (which to me was indistinguishable from the modi3) to the modius. And this feels like an equal improvement from there.


----------



## rsnblmn

hiImGrant said:


> My backordered BF2 showed up this weekend. I’m impressed. It’s interesting to have ease of listening (smooth sound) without losing any detail. I would assume smoothing sound might have that kind of trade off but this has every bit of detail I would get from an ADI2 but the sound I’m hearing is so much less fatiguing.



I just got mine today as well - took FedEx almost a week to get it to Colorado for some reason, which felt almost as long as the backorder wait - but it was definitely worth it. My impressions so far are exactly as you described, MUCH less fatiguing than the D/S DAC I was using previously, but somehow seems even more resolving and detailed. I'm really enjoying it immensely.


----------



## j0val

rsnblmn said:


> I just got mine today as well - took FedEx almost a week to get it to Colorado for some reason, which felt almost as long as the backorder wait - but it was definitely worth it. My impressions so far are exactly as you described, MUCH less fatiguing than the D/S DAC I was using previously, but somehow seems even more resolving and detailed. I'm really enjoying it immensely.



Reading all of these is making it harder to wait!


----------



## theveterans (Jun 24, 2020)

rsnblmn said:


> I just got mine today as well - took FedEx almost a week to get it to Colorado for some reason, which felt almost as long as the backorder wait - but it was definitely worth it. My impressions so far are exactly as you described, MUCH less fatiguing than the D/S DAC I was using previously, but somehow seems even more resolving and detailed. I'm really enjoying it immensely.



The value proposition of BF2 is just revolutionary IMO. Well implemented D/S DACs can also portray a similar feeling of resolving ability without ever causing fatigue, and I'd even go as far as ultra-smooth (even much smoother than BF2/GMB A2 and Yggdrasil A2) that flows effortlessly, but they would cost at least 2-5x more than BF2. One downside that I always note with those D/S DACs and this includes the well regarded Chord DAVE with Blu-MK2 that I've demoed a number of times is the D/S DAC's (well implemented only) "hyper-realistic" sound (they do give awesome wow factor in the beginning) that can sometimes sound "too hi-fi or ethereal/refined" for my taste (or like electrostats vs dynamics as an analogy). I'd trade the utmost refined sound of those D/S DACs for some "live rawness (other forums calls this plankton)" signature that BF2, GMB A2 and Yggdrasil A2 have in their presentation especially the vocals and piano rendition that sounds more realistic than the uberclean well implemented D/S and upper/summit tier Chord DACs. The Schiit MB is not for everyone but it's an acquired taste of you're into "raw vintage sound" with modern technicalities.


----------



## jkpenrose

theveterans said:


> The value proposition of BF2 is just revolutionary IMO. Well implemented D/S DACs can also portray a similar feeling of resolving ability without ever causing fatigue, and I'd even go as far as ultra-smooth (even much smoother than BF2/GMB A2 and Yggdrasil A2) that flows effortlessly, but they would cost at least 2-5x more than BF2. One downside that I always note with those D/S DACs and this includes the well regarded Chord DAVE with Blu-MK2 that I've demoed a number of times is the D/S DAC's (well implemented only) "hyper-realistic" sound (they do give awesome wow factor in the beginning) that can sometimes sound "too hi-fi or ethereal/refined" for my taste (or like electrostats vs dynamics as an analogy). I'd trade the utmost refined sound of those D/S DACs for some "live rawness (other forums calls this plankton)" signature that BF2, GMB A2 and Yggdrasil A2 have in their presentation especially the vocals and piano rendition that sounds more realistic than the uberclean well implemented D/S and upper/summit tier Chord DACs. The Schiit MB is not for everyone but it's an acquired taste of you're into "raw vintage sound" with modern technicalities.



I have a similar experience on a different scale with the KEF LSX... They sound amazing and huge bass from a tiny speaker... Smooth, clean sound... But they sound almost 'too' clean and processed and not very natural or real to me... 

Great size for office and near field use, but haven't decided if I'm going to keep them yet or go back to cans.


----------



## theveterans

jkpenrose said:


> I have a similar experience on a different scale with the KEF LSX... They sound amazing and huge bass from a tiny speaker... Smooth, clean sound... But they sound almost 'too' clean and processed and not very natural or real to me...
> 
> Great size for office and near field use, but haven't decided if I'm going to keep them yet or go back to cans.



Yep. That's the trademark of the D/S DAC that's inside the LSX that you're hearing. I do enjoy that punchy and refined D/S sound with the IEMs as they're brutally picky with sources, and somehow I find that desktop amps don't drive balanced armature IEMs as well as DAPs (at least with the Andromeda as reference), but with speakers, I'd take the BF2 or GMB A2 (The choice between the two DACs depends on the preamp/power/integrated amp and speaker synergy) over any "refined D/S sound" IMO.


----------



## cuiter23

Anyone using the BF/BF2 with their 2-channel hifi system?


----------



## ev666il

cuiter23 said:


> Anyone using the BF/BF2 with their 2-channel hifi system?



I tried it in my father’s system and it was absolutely fantastic.


----------



## taranfx (Jun 24, 2020)

I just bought a new modi Multibit and coming from Topping E30, it sounds better (holographic, smoother).
I miss remote and wondering what Bifrost 2 will bring sonically to the table? How much better does it sound?

I read couple of replies in the thread that only highs resolution is better.
Is it really worth extra $450?
Wanted to get more opinions before I run out of my 14 days.


----------



## jkpenrose

taranfx said:


> I just bought a new modi Multibit and coming from Topping E30, it sounds better (holographic, smoother).
> I miss remote and wondering what Bifrost 2 will bring sonically to the table? How much better does it sound?
> 
> I read couple of replies in the thread that only highs resolution is better.
> ...



I'm planning to order Bifrost 2 shortly and haven't heard modi
... But from my research what I hear is that it does depend somewhat on how revealing the rest of your chain is. 

Bifrost 2 is said by many to sound more like Gugnir Rev 1 or Yggy Rev A than it does the modi. Whereas the modi and original BF were closer in sound. 

For SE some call the BF2 a mini Yggy - which is high praise indeed. 

@Torq has a review of BF2 on the headphones.com forum which I found helpful

Overall BF2 is receiving almost universal praise from those that like the multibit sound. 

The remote for BF2 only changes sources and phase, I believe... There is no digital or analog volume control, so you would need to handle volume with Amp or source


----------



## Ripper2860

cuiter23 said:


> Anyone using the BF/BF2 with their 2-channel hifi system?



Does a fabulous job on my 2-channel rig.  (see my signature)


----------



## theveterans (Jun 24, 2020)

jkpenrose said:


> I'm planning to order Bifrost 2 shortly and haven't heard modi
> ... But from my research what I hear is that it does depend somewhat on how revealing the rest of your chain is.
> 
> Bifrost 2 is said by many to sound more like Gugnir Rev 1 or Yggy Rev A than it does the modi. Whereas the modi and original BF were closer in sound.
> ...



BF2 actually made the Torq's top 10 favorite DAC list and it's the only DAC that doesn't cost more than 3 digits in the price tag, let alone costing more than 2x less than the next cheapest DAC on his list . I do agree with Torq that the BluMK2/M-Scaler is a must with Chord DAVE and Hugo 2 TT as it elevates the sense of depth in the music from my demo which is what I really like with the Schiit MB DACs.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

My Bifrost 2 arrived today and I've started warming it up for its first test.

Anyways, I'm super OCD so I was hoping Bifrost 2 owners could comment on the remote sensor hole on the front panel. I can see the remote sensor through the hole but it is positioned significantly lower than the hole itself. I can see over the sensor into the PCB and the top of the sensor barely touches the bottom of the sensor window. Does anyone else have a Bifrost like this or is the sensor supposed to line up with the hole in the front panel?


----------



## bboris77

Andrew Rieger said:


> My Bifrost 2 arrived today and I've started warming it up for its first test.
> 
> Anyways, I'm super OCD so I was hoping Bifrost 2 owners could comment on the remote sensor hole on the front panel. I can see the remote sensor through the hole but it is positioned significantly lower than the hole itself. I can see over the sensor into the PCB and the top of the sensor barely touches the bottom of the sensor window. Does anyone else have a Bifrost like this or is the sensor supposed to line up with the hole in the front panel?


As a fellow OCD guy, mine was exactly like that. I could see the led light leaking through the hole at some angles.


----------



## rsnblmn

bboris77 said:


> As a fellow OCD guy, mine was exactly like that. I could see the led light leaking through the hole at some angles.



Mine as well. I may be in the minority judging by the number of complaints I've seen about the super-bright LEDs on previous models, but I am actually not a big fan of the new light-piped LEDs for this reason. I would rather have the old crisp, but scorching lights than light bleed if I had my choice. 

That said, it's a pretty minor nitpick as the build quality is great on mine in every other aspect, and the sonic performance is exactly what I was hoping for.


----------



## XERO1 (Jun 25, 2020)

theveterans said:


> BF2 actually made the Torq's top 10 favorite DAC list and it's the only DAC that doesn't cost more than 3 digits in the price tag, let alone costing more than 2x less than the next cheapest DAC on his list . I do agree with Torq that the BluMK2/M-Scaler is a must with Chord DAVE and Hugo 2 TT as it elevates the sense of depth in the music from my demo which is what I really like with the Schiit MB DACs.


That's pretty crazy that he put the *$699* Bifrost 2 on the same Top 10 list as the *$68,500* dCS Vivaldi (w/ Upsampler and Master Clock) and the *$114,400* MSB Select DAC (w/ FEMTO 33 Clock and 2x Mono Powerbases)!! 

Can't wait for mine to finally get here!!


----------



## jnak00

It boggles my mind that there are DACs out there that cost as much as a very nice car or a small house.


----------



## XERO1

jnak00 said:


> It boggles my mind that there are DACs out there that cost as much as a very nice car or a small house.


If you think that's crazy, check these bad boys out! 

https://www.magicoaudio.com/news/m9


----------



## jkpenrose

XERO1 said:


> If you think that's crazy, check these bad boys out!
> 
> https://www.magicoaudio.com/news/m9


Yikes!  Law of diminishing returns kicks in a WHOLE lot earlier for me... Like 2-3 0's 🤣


----------



## Ninadada

XERO1 said:


> That's pretty crazy that he put the *$699* Bifrost 2 on the same Top 10 list as the *$68,500* dCS Vivaldi (w/ Upsampler and Master Clock) and the *$114,400* MSB Select DAC (w/ FEMTO 33 Clock and 2x Mono Powerbases)!!
> 
> Can't wait for mine to finally get here!!


And MB Gungnir A2 didn't make the list.  I've been wondering where BF2 falls relative to MB Gungnir A2.


----------



## XERO1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Ninadada said:


> And MB Gungnir A2 didn't make the list.  I've been wondering where BF2 falls relative to MB Gungnir A2.


I noticed that too, and I think the main reason it didn't make his list is not that it isn't a great sounding DAC, but because  the Bifrost 2 represents the biggest bang-for-your-buck value in Schiit's DAC lineup and the Yggy obviously represents their top-of-the-line DAC. Since there were only 10 spots on the list, the fact that Schiit got *two* of them is pretty damn impressive on it's own.  And any owner of the Gungnir Multibit already knows that it's every bit as great sounding of a DAC as the Bifrost 2 and Yggdrasil.


----------



## theveterans

I have a different view why GMB A2 didn’t make his list. The only downside with using a GMB A2 is that IMO, you have less choices of downstream gears since it has a leaner tonality in the bass region than both Yggdrasil A2 and BF2 thus can sound overly thin with certain amp and speaker combination in the chain. I would kinda want to pair speakers with a mid-bass emphasis in the 100-250 Hz to extract the micro-details and micro-dynamics that is unique to GMB A2’s sonic presentation in the bass region


----------



## MtnMan307

I just set up my Bifrost 2.  Black unit on B-stock, looks really nice like my silver Schiit.  

Just playing Tool on Spotify, out to Jot, to my cheap speaker amp and desktop speakers.  It sounds quite good so far.  I'm not doing critical listening right away but I think it's going to be impressive.


----------



## ev666il

Now you need a lossless streaming service to do your chain justice


----------



## Andrew Rieger

I know it's just an aesthetic thing but the remote sensor being so far below the opening does drive me a little nuts. Does anyone else have a remote sensor like this?


----------



## Gregg

Andrew Rieger said:


> I know it's just an aesthetic thing but the remote sensor being so far below the opening does drive me a little nuts. Does anyone else have a remote sensor like this?


That's terrible. Send it back right away!
Then after they fix it, I'll buy it as B-stock.


----------



## Ninadada

Andrew Rieger said:


> I know it's just an aesthetic thing but the remote sensor being so far below the opening does drive me a little nuts. Does anyone else have a remote sensor like this?


Mine looks the same and I've heard others report theirs is the same too.


----------



## Andrew Rieger

Ninadada said:


> Mine looks the same and I've heard others report theirs is the same too.



Well, the remote works perfectly so I can't complain. The exceptional sound makes up for the less than perfect build quality.


----------



## MtnMan307

I really like the Bifrost 2 so far, after 2 nights of listening.


----------



## Mark-sf

Andrew Rieger said:


> Well, the remote works perfectly so I can't complain. The exceptional sound makes up for the less than perfect build quality.


This looks like a part change after the design of the front panel. If you look closely at the circuit board picture, you’ll see the IR module they are using has a cylindrical front with rounded top instead of the normal LED profile which could fill the hole. Having said that, could they have mounted it a bit higher so that the hole is covered? Quite likely, but it will never fit in the hole.


----------



## TheTechQ

I'm new to Bifrost 2. I'm curious if any of you are using your Bifrost 2 with a balanced mixer and what cabling you are using.


----------



## rmsanger (Jun 28, 2020)

howdy... I'm interested in the Bifrost 2 and currently have the BF1.  I'm considering the following Dac upgrades from the BF1:

rme adi-2 dac
denafrips ares ii
topping d90
holoaudio spring 2 lvl 2 or spring 1 KTE
bryston bda-2
mhdt orchid
bel canto dac 3.5vb mk2


Essentially in the $700 - $1400 range looking for a DAC that is near "end-game" which I understand is completely subjective.  Does the BF2 hold up to some of the more expensive options on this list or should I just bit the bullet and go for quality at the higher price point?

I use USB like .05% of the time but DAP -> Coax like 99.5% of the time so the USB improvements mean near 0 for me.

I prefer a warmer sound signature and am extremely sensitive to sibilance/harsh highs.  Looking for something that will scale nicely with higher end gear that I can throw at it in the future (e.g. Nimbus, xi audio formula s).


----------



## theveterans (Jun 28, 2020)

Cross off RME, D90 on your list since those are thin sounding in the mids and upper mids. Not sure about the bryston-bda 2, MHDT and Holo Audio. With Denafrips, just use NOS mode only as NOS normally rolls off in the top-most range. I consider BF2 as neutral DAC (not necessarily warm) since it does not tame the highs rather if your source is just bright, BF2 will sound bright and would present treble in a crappy way, but should not sound aggressive or fatiguing. To have the least amount of sibilance/harsh highs, definitely go with something like Chord Mojo since it's the smoothest sounding DAC I've heard in your price range. Normally high end DACs DO NOT try to hide flaws in recording and will sound more open, refined and engaging. I'd suggest trying the Schiit Modius first as I've read impressions that it's a warm and smooth sounding DAC. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...-199-balanced-ak4493-dac.933895/post-15699142


----------



## ssmith3046

theveterans said:


> Cross off RME, D90 on your list since those are thin sounding in the mids and upper mids. Not sure about the bryston-bda 2, MHDT and Holo Audio. With Denafrips, just use NOS mode only as NOS normally rolls off in the top-most range. I consider BF2 as neutral DAC (not necessarily warm) since it does not tame the highs rather if your source is just bright, BF2 will sound bright and would present treble in a crappy way, but should not sound aggressive or fatiguing. To have the least amount of sibilance/harsh highs, definitely go with something like Chord Mojo since it's the smoothest sounding DAC I've heard in your price range. Normally high end DACs DO NOT try to hide flaws in recording and will sound more open, refined and engaging. I'd suggest trying the Schiit Modius first as I've read impressions that it's a warm and smooth sounding DAC. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...-199-balanced-ak4493-dac.933895/post-15699142


Second the Modius. I usually go for multibit DACs but the Modius is something special. I'm using the balanced outputs with a Rupert Neve headphone amp and I'm done buying DACs. Schiit has a 15 day return policy or you can flip it


----------



## j0val

ssmith3046 said:


> Second the Modius. I usually go for multibit DACs but the Modius is something special. I'm using the balanced outputs with a Rupert Neve headphone amp and I'm done buying DACs. Schiit has a 15 day return policy or you can flip it



Do you have any experience with the Bifrost 2? I have the Modius now and wondering if the upgrade is worth it.


----------



## rmsanger

Yeah I'm not sure the Modius will be an upgrade from the BF1?!?  My goal is a great DAC on a budget so that I can splurge on a high end SS amp to push my Abyss 1266 Phi TC.   I was thinking the BF2 was as low as I could go on the DAC side.


----------



## theveterans

rmsanger said:


> Yeah I'm not sure the Modius will be an upgrade from the BF1?!?  My goal is a great DAC on a budget so that I can splurge on a high end SS amp to push my Abyss 1266 Phi TC.   I was thinking the BF2 was as low as I could go on the DAC side.



What kind of SS amp would you want to pair with the DAC?


----------



## ssmith3046

j0val said:


> Do you have any experience with the Bifrost 2? I have the Modius now and wondering if the upgrade is worth it.


No, I've own a Modi multibit and Bifrost multibit.  I know that the Bifrost 2 is all new though and is very popular.  Do you like the Modius?  I was using it with a Magni 3+ and thought it sounded great but I bought the Neve headphone amp and started using the balanced output. I've never been a big fan of delta sigma DACs, I've owned the Modi 3 and Bifrost 4490, but the Modius has changed my mind.


----------



## j0val (Jun 28, 2020)

ssmith3046 said:


> No, I've own a Modi multibit and Bifrost multibit.  I know that the Bifrost 2 is all new though and is very popular.  Do you like the Modius?  I was using it with a Magni 3+ and thought it sounded great but I bought the Neve headphone amp and started using the balanced output. I've never been a big fan of delta sigma DACs, I've owned the Modi 3 and Bifrost 4490, but the Modius has changed my mind.



I've only had the Modi 3 and Modius. The Modius has been a great DAC so far and a noticeable improvement from the Modi. However, working from home is making me restless and wanting to upgrade. So I ordered the BF2 with hopes that I won't want to upgrade from that for a very long while. I've never heard a multibit DAC before though.


----------



## hiImGrant

j0val said:


> I've only had the Modi 3 and Modius. The Modius has been a great DAC so far and a noticeable improvement from the Modi. However, working from home is making me restless and wanting to upgrade. So I ordered the BF2 with hopes that I won't want to upgrade from that for a very long while. I've never heard a multibit DAC before though.


I more or less did the same thing. You won’t be disappointed. I think it’s reasonable to use both if you have room on your desk.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Jun 28, 2020)

j0val said:


> I've only had the Modi 3 and Modius. The Modius has been a great DAC so far and a noticeable improvement from the Modi. However, working from home is making me restless and wanting to upgrade. So I ordered the BF2 with hopes that I won't want to upgrade from that for a very long while. I've never heard a multibit DAC before though.


I'm sure you're going to be really happy with the BF2.


----------



## rmsanger

theveterans said:


> What kind of SS amp would you want to pair with the DAC?


Nimbus in 2 years when I can afford it

this
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-xi-formula-s-and-powerman.924533/

or Flux Fa-10
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flu...-people-impressions-discussion-thread.930883/


----------



## theveterans

Reading Nimbus impressions, I would predict that Bifrost 2 should definitely pair up really well with it. If the other two amps you noted are on the warmer side of things, definitely go with Gungnir MB A2 instead as it will balanced the warmth to something more open without compromising dynamics.


----------



## jkpenrose (Jun 28, 2020)

rmsanger said:


> howdy... I'm interested in the Bifrost 2 and currently have the BF1.  I'm considering the following Dac upgrades from the BF1:
> 
> rme adi-2 dac
> denafrips ares ii
> ...



Is your BF1 multibit or DS?

I haven't heard the modius yet, but I think this is the DS design that Mike commented on last year that 'sounded way better than it should'... As we know, Mike doesn't typically like the sound of DS saying they 'sound like ass' so I'm inclined to believe this is something special in the DS space...

Ive heard it compared favorably to the ADI-2 without all the other features...

Ive been researching several of the same dacs you are looking at and have settled on the BF2 which I plan to order soon... From what I've read it hits way above its price point, especially for SE... In that usage I've heard several people compare it quite favorably to the Yggy.

One of the deciding factors for me has been looking at DAC design and implementation theory. I do think measurements are important, but that there is more going on than what we know how to measure (or at least interpret)... The upshot being that I believe that phase/time domain reproduction is important to our perception and that most DS designs lose some of this in their filter implementation.

Ive seen evidence that some of this is learned and people are more (or less) sensitive to this based on experience.

So personally, I think there is sound science )) to the aporoach schiit and chord use to design their filters to better reproduce the time domain in addition to the frequency domain (and yes, I know in theory, that DS can do the same IF it doesn't mess with phase) - if you want to get super techy, check out the science on sinc functions and taps 

How much difference will this make to me? I haven't heard enough different dac designs personally to tell yet - but given that after tone and timbre, I particularly appreciate staging, imaging and depth from my speaker days (which I know is tied to the time domain) , and the GREAT reviews by well respected listeners, I've decided to go with BF2..

Plus, I love the new modular design for future upgrades.

@Torq review of the BF2, I found particularly helpful... He has WAY more experience than I do!  LOL


----------



## rmsanger

jkpenrose said:


> Is your BF1 multibit or DS?



multibit... it’s clear the bf1 is the weak part in my current chain so would like a clear step up. My concern is that I give 0 fugs about the usb improvement do not sure BF2 is that much of an upgrade.   Everything I read about the mhdt  orchid is that is punches above it’s weight too.


----------



## theveterans

rmsanger said:


> multibit... it’s clear the bf1 is the weak part in my current chain so would like a clear step up. My concern is that I give 0 fugs about the usb improvement do not sure BF2 is that much of an upgrade.   Everything I read about the mhdt  orchid is that is punches above it’s weight too.



All I can tell you is that if you don't like the presentation of Schiit Multibit, you have to move on to a different DAC. Bifrost 2 would still have the Schiit Multibit sound with just the technicalities such as depth, microdynamics and resolution elevated to what I would consider worthy of being considered as a high end DAC.


----------



## rmsanger

theveterans said:


> All I can tell you is that if you don't like the presentation of Schiit Multibit, you have to move on to a different DAC. Bifrost 2 would still have the Schiit Multibit sound with just the technicalities such as depth, microdynamics and resolution elevated to what I would consider worthy of being considered as a high end DAC.


Thanks I think you helped answering question!  Schiit multibit is great for enter level to midfi hence per $ punches about its weight.  But if BF2 isn’t leagues ahead then likely I need to look elsewhere for hifi option.


----------



## 2ndWedge

rmsanger said:


> Thanks I think you helped answering question!  Schiit multibit is great for enter level to midfi hence per $ punches about its weight.  But if BF2 isn’t leagues ahead then likely I need to look elsewhere for hifi option.


Seen this?   https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/schiit-audio-bifrost-2-dac/


----------



## taranfx

2ndWedge said:


> Seen this?   https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/schiit-audio-bifrost-2-dac/


Feels like a post created by schiit itself


----------



## taranfx

cuiter23 said:


> Anyone using the BF/BF2 with their 2-channel hifi system?


Just ordered it. Upgrading from Modi MB. Let's see


----------



## Ninadada

taranfx said:


> Just ordered it. Upgrading from Modi MB. Let's see


I did compare Modi MB and BF2 in my 2-channel "low-fi" system and the improvement characteristics and magnitude was on par with my headphone rig.  Let us know your thoughts after you've had a chance to compare.


----------



## taranfx

Relaxasaurus said:


> Couldn't wait any longer and picked up a used Gumby
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any update on review? Looking forward to it


----------



## mbritt

taranfx said:


> Just ordered it. Upgrading from Modi MB. Let's see


Love to hear your thoughts when you receive your BF2.  I have the Eitr to the Modi MB to a Peachtree hybrid tube amp and it made me stop using headphones for a lot of my music listening.  My system has great synergy but I can't help wanting to hear the BF2 in my system.  Then I could move my Modi MB into the living room for my ALLO DigiOne streamer going into my HT receiver. I'm also kind of hoping that the new Schiit Transport is the same case size as the BF2 so that they can stack neatly on my desktop.  I don't usually succumb to upgraditis but I'm feeling the slow burn of anticipation for this pairing.


----------



## maheeinfy

How does BF2 compare to Bimby


----------



## jkpenrose

taranfx said:


> Feels like a post created by schiit itself



 

BF2 seems to be well liked by most reviewers... Haven't heard it yet, so no personal comments on sound, but I don't think all the reviewers I've read work for Schiit 😂


----------



## j0val

Just got a shipping notification today. Ordered on 06/07. Going to compare to the Modius when it gets here.


----------



## taranfx

j0val said:


> Just got a shipping notification today. Ordered on 06/07. Going to compare to the Modius when it gets here.


same here. shipped this morning


----------



## Mark-sf

Looks like they are caught up. Mine was ordered on the weekend and shipped today as well!


----------



## ssmith3046

j0val said:


> Just got a shipping notification today. Ordered on 06/07. Going to compare to the Modius when it gets here.


Looking forward to it.


----------



## TheTechQ

jkpenrose said:


> BF2 seems to be well liked by most reviewers... Haven't heard it yet, so no personal comments on sound, but I don't think all the reviewers I've read work for Schiit 😂


I have one and like how it sounds. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## DougD

Mark-sf said:


> Looks like they are caught up. Mine was ordered on the weekend and shipped today as well!


Kudos on that to the hard-working Schiit team ! We hear a good amount from Jason, and some from Mike, but there's a crew of other unsung people there doing good work, putting schiit together and keeping all the parts moving.


----------



## Gregg

My new Bimby is set to arrive in the next few days. Can't wait.


----------



## Ripper2860

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## j0val (Jul 2, 2020)

Mine just came earlier this afternoon. Had a little bit of time to do a comparison against the Modius.

Initially, I upgraded from the Magni/Modi stack to the Asgard/Modius stack. The step up was a big difference to me. Things were more defined, bigger soundstage, better imaging, etc (Although, I do think the Asgard 3 had a big part in the SQ leap). As a result, I wanted to see what the upgrade to the Bifrost offered, so I ordered one a few weeks ago.

I'll preface by saying I don't have a lot of experience with various DACs. Basically, it's been a Schiit journey (Fulla->Modi->Modius->Bifrost).

To me, the Bifrost does sound better than the Modius, as expected. The sound is a bit smoother, better bass extension, and an overall slightly fuller sound. When I switched back to the Modius, the soundstage felt like it was a little more front loaded and just a bit narrower. The Bifrost is actually having me reconsider selling my Grado GH4s since the highs on them were just a little hot for me on the Modius. I'm really enjoying the BF2 so far.

I will also say that the Modius seems even more so like a very capable DAC at $200. Does the BF2 sound more than three times better than the Modius as the price would imply? Personally, I don't think so. This is in no way a knock on the performance of the BF2 since it's obviously an amazing DAC, but rather a nod to another Schiit product with extreme value. The difference between the two is definitely noticeable and if you are looking for a DAC that will last a very long time, then the BF2 is it.

I don't have any plans to upgrade and I know that the BF2 will be very capable in bringing out the best in any headphones that I may get in the future.


----------



## taranfx

Received my BF2. Out of the box BF2 is significantly more detailed. Also it's more dynamic with bass and highs. Guitar sounds come from outside my HiFi a lot more than before. Still trying songs. Initial impressions are nice. Time will tell if it's worth $700 vs $250 mimby


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

taranfx said:


> Received my BF2. Out of the box BF2 is significantly more detailed. Also it's more dynamic with bass and highs. Guitar sounds come from outside my HiFi a lot more than before. Still trying songs. Initial impressions are nice. Time will tell if it's worth $700 vs $250 mimby


IMO the bigger question now is if it’s worth $700 vs $200 for the Modius


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 2, 2020)

Or the $99 Modi 3.


----------



## j0val

pinkfloyd4ever said:


> IMO the bigger question now is if it’s worth $700 vs $200 for the Modius



Personally, I think the Modius is a very capable DAC, especially at only $200. However, I also ended up with the Bifrost to scratch that "what if" itch and just be done with it. I'm pretty happy with it.


----------



## taranfx

j0val said:


> Personally, I think the Modius is a very capable DAC, especially at only $200. However, I also ended up with the Bifrost to scratch that "what if" itch and just be done with it. I'm pretty happy with it.


I'm curious if you tried mimby. Mimby is same smooth treble in cheaper package.


----------



## taranfx (Jul 3, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> Or the $99 Modi 3.


for me, modi 3 just doesnt make the cut.
I bought modi 3, didnt find it improve the sound over my CXA80 amplifier's inbuilt DAC (Hifi), then bought Topping E90. It is vastly better than Modi3. Then I went Modi multibit route, found it much smoother and holographic. (Yes I returned others)

Now I'm still debating BF2 or modi multibit. The extra bass is simply filled by Loki. Is the wider soundstage and more detailed highs alone worth the extra $450? Or is it better spent upgrading power amp to Schiit Vidar or XTZ edge?


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 3, 2020)

@taranfx , one of the differences I hear between an entry level DAC and a good, more expensive DAC is, the sense of realism in the mid-range. Does the Bf2 not offer a noticeable improvement in realism over the Mimby?


----------



## j0val

taranfx said:


> I'm curious if you tried mimby. Mimby is same smooth treble in cheaper package.



I haven't, unfortunately. BF2 is my first experience with multibit.


----------



## taranfx

EagleWings said:


> @taranfx , one of the differences I hear between an entry level DAC and a good, more expensive DAC is, the sense of realism in the mid-range. Does the Bf2 not offer a noticeable improvement in realism over the Mimby?


Yep there's more realism in mid-range on lossless good quality tracks. Difference narrows on not so great recordings


----------



## hiImGrant

Ripper2860 said:


> Or the $99 Modi 3.


This does not belong in any comparison. I have all three and the modi3 is woefully anemic by comparison. Uh, shrill comes to mind in thinking if it’s overall rendering. While modius and BF2 could never be described that way.


----------



## theveterans

taranfx said:


> Yep there's more realism in mid-range on lossless good quality tracks. Difference narrows on not so great recordings



Depends on how much importance that quality is to you. Bear in mind though that DACs at Bifrost 2 SQ level or higher will always have that realism quality and just varies on how they present their tonality and staging. There are lots of less expensive DACs out there that will sound technically well, but won't have this low-level feeling of realism in their presentation.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 3, 2020)

taranfx said:


> for me, modi 3 just doesnt make the cut.
> I bought modi 3, didnt find it improve the sound over my CXA80 amplifier's inbuilt DAC (Hifi), then bought Topping E90. It is vastly better than Modi3. Then I went Modi multibit route, found it much smoother and holographic. (Yes I returned others)
> 
> Now I'm still debating BF2 or modi multibit. The extra bass is simply filled by Loki. Is the wider soundstage and more detailed highs alone worth the extra $450? Or is it better spent upgrading power amp to Schiit Vidar or XTZ edge?





hiImGrant said:


> This does not belong in any comparison. I have all three and the modi3 is woefully anemic by comparison. Uh, shrill comes to mind in thinking if it’s overall rendering. While modius and BF2 could never be described that way.



While I was kidding about Modi 3, I do think the Modi 3 has its place and is certainly not going to cannibalize sales from Schiit's othe DAC offerings for those wanting a mid-to-TOTL DAC.  I have not heard Modius, but it really seems to be owning that price-point.  My DAC entry into the Schiit storm was Modi Multibit and now I've settled on Bifrost 2.  I've not wanted a DS DAC since.  Not to say that there aren't really good ones out there -- just don't feel the need.  So many good choices!


----------



## hiImGrant

Ripper2860 said:


> While I was kidding about Modi 3, I do think the Modi 3 has its place and is certainly not going to cannibalize sales from SChiit's othe DAC offerings for those wanting a mid-to-TOTL DAC.  I have not heard Modius, but it really seems to be owning that price-point by storm.  My DAC entry into the Schiit storm was Modi Multibit and now I've settled on Bifrost 2.  I've not wanted a DS DAC since.  Not to say that there aren't really good ones out there -- just don't feel the need.  So many good choices!


Ok. True the modi3 at half the cost of modius is really attractive. But if they make a Multibit modius theyll for sure lose sales on the bifrost2. I do think an updated Jotunheim is going to drop


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 4, 2020)

hiImGrant said:


> But if they make a Multibit modius theyll for sure lose sales on the bifrost2.



Agreed.  That's why I think we will not see a Multibit Modius.  Could we see an update to Modi Multibit in the current small form-factor?  Sure, but I think Modius was more to provide a lower price mid-size form-factor DAC for those owning an Asgard, Jot, or even Lyr 3 that wanted a lower than BF2 priced DAC and would match and stack.  It seems they WAY OVER DELIVERED with Modius!!


----------



## Mark-sf

taranfx said:


> I'm curious if you tried mimby. Mimby is same smooth treble in cheaper package.


I have am using Mimby w Vali 2 for my office and bf2 w/ Jot for serious listening and while there is a loss of some resolution and dimensionality it is not night and day IMHO. Definitely a great value


----------



## taranfx

from what I read Mimby's primary issue is USB noise. Will USB to coax conversion help?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 3, 2020)

I would say Mimby's USB noise is no worse than other USB-based DAC in the price range, however...

Absolutely!!  A Schiit EITR (on B stock now, so pounce) is a wonderful pairing with Mimby. Prior to my move to Bifrost 2, that pairing served me admirably as well as many others here.


----------



## Ninadada

taranfx said:


> for me, modi 3 just doesnt make the cut.
> I bought modi 3, didnt find it improve the sound over my CXA80 amplifier's inbuilt DAC (Hifi), then bought Topping E90. It is vastly better than Modi3. Then I went Modi multibit route, found it much smoother and holographic. (Yes I returned others)
> 
> Now I'm still debating BF2 or modi multibit. The extra bass is simply filled by Loki. Is the wider soundstage and more detailed highs alone worth the extra $450? Or is it better spent upgrading power amp to Schiit Vidar or XTZ edge?


Loki will only increase bass amplitude but not detail, quality, and texture.  Bass quality is one of the key areas that BF2 really shines.


----------



## taranfx

Ninadada said:


> Loki will only increase bass amplitude but not detail, quality, and texture.  Bass quality is one of the key areas that BF2 really shines.


I agree. More tracks I use, more I'm convinced it's hard to go back to Mimby 😛


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 3, 2020)

BF2 is so good, I've removed my Loki from my primary HP rig and moved it to my 2-channel rig to help with poorly mastered LPs.


----------



## taranfx

Ripper2860 said:


> BF2 is so good, I've removed my Loki from my primary HP rig and moved it to my 2-channel rig to help with poorly mastered LPs.


I'll agree with you. I no longer engage Loki with bimby


----------



## Rebel Chris

How does the bifrost 2 compare to the yggdrasil soundwise?


----------



## j0val

taranfx said:


> I'll agree with you. I no longer engage Loki with bimby



For some reason, I feel like my headphones respond a little better to the Loki with my BF2. Really brings out the best. 

I'm enjoying the BF2 more and more as I continue to listen to it. Watching movies with it is also a great experience. Such great imaging, smoothness, and bass detail.


----------



## Wes S

Ripper2860 said:


> I would say Mimby's USB noise is no worse than other USB-based DAC in the price range, however...
> 
> Absolutely!!  A Schiit EITR (on B stock now, so pounce) is a wonderful pairing with Mimby. Prior to my move to Bifrost 2, that pairing served me admirably as well as many others here.


Been there and done that, and completely agree.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Agreed.  That's why I think we will not see a Multibit Modius.  Could we see an update to Modi Multibit in the current small form-factor?  Sure, but I think Modius was more to provide a lower price mid-size form-factor DAC for those owning an Asgard, Jot, or even Lyr 3 that wanted a lower than BF2 priced DAC and would match and stack.  It seems they WAY OVER DELIVERED with Modius!!



If there’s something I’ve seen during my time as Schiit-head, it’s that if they can do something to challenge the market and deliver amazing value for the dollar, they will. This was probably planned all the way


----------



## MrPanda

tafens said:


> If there’s something I’ve seen during my time as Schiit-head, it’s that if they can do something to challenge the market and deliver amazing value for the dollar, they will. This was probably planned all the way


They make some really high value products - I don't think I've heard a tube amp even close to Valhalla 2 near that price point for example...


----------



## mab1376 (Jul 5, 2020)

pinkfloyd4ever said:


> I'd say try it both ways, and let us know your thoughts!



With this track, the mid-range is much more fuller and forward and the soundstage is much larger with Unison.



With Roon, I grouped the zones of the Eitr and Unison USB and used the front panel button to switch back and forth while the track played. The source was FLAC from my own library, not Tidal or some other web-based streaming.

It ran for 6 hours before attempting to compare.

Both were plugged into my Gigabyte motherboard's designated DAC-UP ports which have supposedly lower noise and more linear power to deliver for audio equipment.

https://www.gigabyte.com/mb/100-gaming/Audio


> Clean, low-noise power for your Digital-to-Analog Audio converter


----------



## schneller

mab1376 said:


> With this track, the mid-range is much more fuller and forward and the soundstage is much larger with Unison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have the same motherboard for my HTPC. What is your conclusion?


----------



## schneller

Rebel Chris said:


> How does the bifrost 2 compare to the yggdrasil soundwise?



Seems to be a question no one wants to answer? I would love a comparison of Yggdrasil A2 vs. BF2, both fed by Unison USB, both using SE outputs.


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

schneller said:


> Seems to be a question no one wants to answer? I would love a comparison of Yggdrasil A2 vs. BF2, both fed by Unison USB, both using SE outputs.


Probably because no one owns both a Yggy A2 and a BF2


----------



## Ripper2860

Or maybe some do and prefer not to say...


----------



## mab1376

schneller said:


> I have the same motherboard for my HTPC. What is your conclusion?



I prefer the Unison input over the Eitr to Coax input personally.


----------



## jkpenrose

Rebel Chris said:


> How does the bifrost 2 compare to the yggdrasil soundwise?



Ive seen reviews that call the BF2 a mini yggy with very comparable sound... Especially single ended... More similar to the yggy than to the gugnir in sound. 

Torq says that if a Dave fed by mscaler is 100,, the yggy is a 98 and the BF2 is a 95/96, if I remember correctly. He says the BF1 is about a 90 on the same scale. 

Both make his top 10 list, even compared to 5 figure dacs... Pretty high praise. 

Another comparison I've seen also describes them as very similar with the differences being subtle... The example used being the BF2 is like a single high definition screen and the yggy being multiple smaller panels assembled together - making it slightly easier to identify the individual 'space' of each instrument, whereas the BF2 provides a little more blended sound - but overall tone and presentation almost the same.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Rebel Chris said:


> How does the bifrost 2 compare to the yggdrasil soundwise?


One could say they have the same Sound signature, while the Yggdrasil offers more detail and refinement.


----------



## theveterans

jkpenrose said:


> Ive seen reviews that call the BF2 a mini yggy with very comparable sound... Especially single ended... More similar to the yggy than to the gugnir in sound.



Yep. Gungnir MB A2 is a lot leaner in the mid-bass with a slightly more expanded staging in terms of depth than BF2 or maybe Yggdrasil A2 (I do need to A/B the Yggdrasil A2 and GMB A2 again to know the staging difference more clearly hence the maybe). From my listening experience you would need to hunt a limited and careful chain after the GMB A2 to maximize its potential while BF2 and Yggdrasil A2 are pretty much play along really well with many amps and transducers out there.


----------



## johnnyEars

I’ve been listening to my new BF2 every night for two weeks. Love it. So engaging. I can’t really compare it to anything in its class since the only DACs I really know are the DragonFly Red and my now-deceased Modi 2, but it is definitely another league from those. I will say that it needed about 48 hours of burn in to reach it’s potential. Fresh out of the box (I know, I know) I listened for a few minutes and was feeling buyers’ remorse. Left it on for two days and decided to run through my test tracks... when I realized I just...couldn’t...stop...listening... That first night was at the pinnacle of my experiences with recorded music. I’ve been elated every time I get to play with my system!


----------



## j0val

johnnyEars said:


> I’ve been listening to my new BF2 every night for two weeks. Love it. So engaging. I can’t really compare it to anything in its class since the only DACs I really know are the DragonFly Red and my now-deceased Modi 2, but it is definitely another league from those. I will say that it needed about 48 hours of burn in to reach it’s potential. Fresh out of the box (I know, I know) I listened for a few minutes and was feeling buyers’ remorse. Left it on for two days and decided to run through my test tracks... when I realized I just...couldn’t...stop...listening... That first night was at the pinnacle of my experiences with recorded music. I’ve been elated every time I get to play with my system!



I think I felt similar to you. Maybe not buyer's remorse, but a slight feeling of it not exceeding the expectations of what I thought it would do for SQ (it's my first serious DAC). However, after having it for a week, I can't get enough of it. I think the sound is addicting and I find myself trying to sneak in chances to listen to my system. It's really amazing how great the Bifrost is.


----------



## Gregg (Jul 10, 2020)

j0val said:


> I think I felt similar to you. Maybe not buyer's remorse, but a slight feeling of it not exceeding the expectations of what I thought it would do for SQ (it's my first serious DAC). However, after having it for a week, I can't get enough of it. I think the sound is addicting and I find myself trying to sneak in chances to listen to my system. It's really amazing how great the Bifrost is.


Yeah, I feel the same the same as you folks. I just got mine 48 hours ago, but I don't have 48 hours of playing time on it yet. I noticed the abundant detail from the get-go though. At first it seemed a little rough in the upper mids and slightly too much in the mid-bass. It is getting a little better now. How long will this take to fully break in?


----------



## j0val

Gregg said:


> Yeah, I feel the same the same as you folks. I just got mine 48 hours ago, but I don't have 48 hourds of playing time on it yet. I noticed the abundant detail from the get-go though. At first it seemed a little rough in the upper mids and slightly too much in the mid-bass. It is getting a little better now. How long will this take to fully break in?



I probably have about 20ish hours on it. Also might come down to what headphones you're running on it. The BF2 has upped the game of my Grados tremendously (as well as my other headphones of course). I'm really happy with it.


----------



## johnnyEars

Gregg said:


> Yeah, I feel the same the same as you folks. I just got mine 48 hours ago, but I don't have 48 hours of playing time on it yet. I noticed the abundant detail from the get-go though. At first it seemed a little rough in the upper mids and slightly too much in the mid-bass. It is getting a little better now. How long will this take to fully break in?


I left it on for 48 hours to break it in...but then it was liquid magic


----------



## DowdyPrime

Hi All, sorry for the slightly off-topic, noob question, but this is where people who know their Bifrost hang out.... Can anyone identify this Bifrost? It is clearly pre-2, but then I'm lost. The stickers indicate USB5 and 4490, but other versions of this combo I've found all have a more extended description directly on the metal chasis (where is says "Upgradeable, Discrete,...etc." Still, I thought 4490 was the latest chip used in Bifrost1, but the product model is sch-04 not 04E. Anyway... I can't find anywhere a geneology of Bifrosts, so I wonder if any of you can help. Do you know what year span this would be? What it's relation to uber? Sorry, noob trying to figure things out...


----------



## G0rt

DowdyPrime said:


> Hi All, sorry for the slightly off-topic, noob question, but this is where people who know their Bifrost hang out.... Can anyone identify this Bifrost? It is clearly pre-2, but then I'm lost. The stickers indicate USB5 and 4490, but other versions of this combo I've found all have a more extended description directly on the metal chasis (where is says "Upgradeable, Discrete,...etc." Still, I thought 4490 was the latest chip used in Bifrost1, but the product model is sch-04 not 04E. Anyway... I can't find anywhere a geneology of Bifrosts, so I wonder if any of you can help. Do you know what year span this would be? What it's relation to uber? Sorry, noob trying to figure things out...



Looks just like the back of my late model Bifrost 4490, although yours has a slightly later SN.


----------



## DowdyPrime

G0rt said:


> Looks just like the back of my late model Bifrost 4490, although yours has a slightly later SN.



Thanks for looking! Interesting... so probably 2017-18?


----------



## G0rt

DowdyPrime said:


> Thanks for looking! Interesting... so probably 2017-18?


I only bought mine last year, mid April, direct from Schiit.


----------



## DowdyPrime

G0rt said:


> I only bought mine last year, mid April, direct from Schiit.


Wow. Interesting. Thanks for checking it out.


----------



## Currawong

Very roughly, the Bifrost 2 is only a bit behind Yggy. Slightly more closed-in sounding with less bite in the treble. One might consider it a very slight touch warm and euphonic, but I consider it to sit at the perfect mid-point between sounding "dry" and "liquid", ie: musical without having to revert to adding even-order harmonic distortion or the like. The difference is maybe more noticeable on speakers than on headphones. Since you're always going to be passing the signal through an amp (and cables) a bit of the difference will be lost between both DACs with any amp, so my thinking is that the jump up to Yggy might be more "worth it" if you have a correspondingly high-end set-up (and like listening to excellent-quality recordings) where you'll notice the difference.


----------



## Rensek (Jul 18, 2020)

cuiter23 said:


> Anyone using the BF/BF2 with their 2-channel hifi system?



I use Bifrost 2 almost exclusively for 2 ch. It's quite excellent.

A majority of my Bifrost 2 comments come from 2 ch.



rmsanger said:


> multibit... it’s clear the bf1 is the weak part in my current chain so would like a clear step up. My concern is that I give 0 fugs about the usb improvement do not sure BF2 is that much of an upgrade.   Everything I read about the mhdt  orchid is that is punches above it’s weight too.



I put a long write up a ways back on this very thread, regarding what I thought about Bifrost 2 compared to Bifrost 4490, and modi multibit.

Those thoughts were primarily attained from Toslink listening. I had a really crappy USB source at the time (Google pixels) and even Unison couldn't save the soundstage/depth/imaging from those phones....

So if you search back to December 2019/Jan 2020 on this thread you will find my thoughts.

Bifrost 2 is very nice, in my opinion. Everyones personal opinion of what constitues a night and day difference is highly subjective.

I think Bifrost 2 is very nice and is a definite improvement over modi multibit, Bifrost 4490 and modi 3.

Bifrost 2 beats the best of each of those dacs, and has no faults or weaknesses as far as I can tell.

Is it worth the price difference? To me, yes it's very much worth the extra sheckels. But only you, your ears, & your financial sensibilities can make that decision for yourself.


----------



## malocadi

Has anyone tried using this with USB Audio Player Pro on Android? When I try to play something it cuts out after about 5 seconds and the bifrost sounds like it switches back on. This happening to anyone?

I have it attached to a USB hub which is connected to a Galaxy S10.


----------



## TheTechQ

malocadi said:


> Has anyone tried using this with USB Audio Player Pro on Android? When I try to play something it cuts out after about 5 seconds and the bifrost sounds like it switches back on. This happening to anyone?
> 
> I have it attached to a USB hub which is connected to a Galaxy S10.


The click might be the muting relay. Normally it would click when switching sampling rates.


----------



## malocadi

TheTechQ said:


> The click might be the muting relay. Normally it would click when switching sampling rates.


Thanks, I just isolated it to the USB hub that I was using. If I connect the bifrost directly to a computer it plays fine. If I try connecting through the hub, the audio cuts out after a few seconds of playing, similar to what I was seeing when playing through my phone.

Now to find a USB hub that works with this.


----------



## bigjako

malocadi said:


> Thanks, I just isolated it to the USB hub that I was using. If I connect the bifrost directly to a computer it plays fine. If I try connecting through the hub, the audio cuts out after a few seconds of playing, similar to what I was seeing when playing through my phone.
> 
> Now to find a USB hub that works with this.


Try to use a powered USB Hub, it’s helped me a bunch.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Anyone else have issues with Windows forgetting Bifrost 2? More often than not, when I turn on Bifrost 2, Windows can't find it. When I plug out the USB cable and plug it back in, everything is normal again.


----------



## genck

Zojokkeli said:


> Anyone else have issues with Windows forgetting Bifrost 2? More often than not, when I turn on Bifrost 2, Windows can't find it. When I plug out the USB cable and plug it back in, everything is normal again.


Solution: Never turn it off


----------



## hiImGrant

Zojokkeli said:


> Anyone else have issues with Windows forgetting Bifrost 2? More often than not, when I turn on Bifrost 2, Windows can't find it. When I plug out the USB cable and plug it back in, everything is normal again.


This hasn’t happened with mine. But I also don’t turn it off.
USB issues are really strange because there are quite a few points of failure and most have nothing to do with the end device.


----------



## Ripper2860

*GEEK ALERT!!!!*

Interesting.  If it continues to be an issue, this might be a work-around.

https://knowledge.ni.com/KnowledgeArticleDetails?id=kA00Z000000P7bZSAS


----------



## pinkfloyd4ever

genck said:


> Solution: Never turn it off


This. Doesn't Schitt strongly recommend leaving their multibit DACs on all the time? I believe this is because it takes them several hours to warm up to thermal equilibrium, and they sound their best when they are at thermal equilibrium.


----------



## rkw

Ripper2860 said:


> *GEEK ALERT!!!!*
> 
> Interesting.  If it continues to be an issue, this might be a work-around.
> 
> https://knowledge.ni.com/KnowledgeArticleDetails?id=kA00Z000000P7bZSAS


As a geek, I actually found that interesting. I didn't know about DevCon (not to be confused with ComicCon, SantaCon, etc. ). Unfortunately, it isn't something that automatically keeps a device connected. It's more like you notice something is disconnected and you can manually run a command to restart the connection (without unplugging the cable).


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes, but if your layout is anything like mine, reaching either USB cable end to unplug is a pain.  I keep mine powered on 24x7, so never experienced the issue.


----------



## emilsal

Anyone have the Bifrost 2 paired with the THX AA 789?  What are your impressions?


----------



## LeMoviedave

emilsal said:


> Anyone have the Bifrost 2 paired with the THX AA 789?  What are your impressions?


I haven't heard it with the THX AA 789.  It does work well the THX AAA 789, or the SP200 for that matter.  The sound is pretty neutral.  The 789 adds no coloration, so just that touch of warmth the BF2 adds.


----------



## hiImGrant

emilsal said:


> Anyone have the Bifrost 2 paired with the THX AA 789?  What are your impressions?


The 789 to me wasn’t up to the task of handling what detail the bifrost is capable of producing gracefully. The pairing had a distinct sense of being sharp. The schiit modius on the other hand was an excellent pairing and complements the 789 very well. It makes up for it’s flaws and has a real synergy together imo.


----------



## ThanatosVI

hiImGrant said:


> The 789 to me wasn’t up to the task of handling what detail the bifrost is capable of producing gracefully. The pairing had a distinct sense of being sharp. The schiit modius on the other hand was an excellent pairing and complements the 789 very well. It makes up for it’s flaws and has a real synergy together imo.



Could you test the Jotunheim with the Bifrost as direct comparison?


----------



## emilsal

hiImGrant said:


> The 789 to me wasn’t up to the task of handling what detail the bifrost is capable of producing gracefully. The pairing had a distinct sense of being sharp. The schiit modius on the other hand was an excellent pairing and complements the 789 very well. It makes up for it’s flaws and has a real synergy together imo.


Are you using another amp besides the 789?


----------



## hiImGrant

ThanatosVI said:


> Could you test the Jotunheim with the Bifrost as direct comparison?


I don’t have a jotenheim


----------



## hiImGrant

emilsal said:


> Are you using another amp besides the 789?


I have had several other amps but currently use the GS-X mini and V280. Have used the rnhp, liquid platinum, Asgard 2, and CTH.


----------



## Zojokkeli

genck said:


> Solution: Never turn it off





hiImGrant said:


> This hasn’t happened with mine. But I also don’t turn it off.
> USB issues are really strange because there are quite a few points of failure and most have nothing to do with the end device.





Ripper2860 said:


> *GEEK ALERT!!!!*
> 
> Interesting.  If it continues to be an issue, this might be a work-around.
> 
> https://knowledge.ni.com/KnowledgeArticleDetails?id=kA00Z000000P7bZSAS



I compromised and now turn on B2 before my PC. Seems to work so far.


----------



## j0val

Had a strange issue tonight. Was going to listen to some music when I noticed that I was only getting sound out of the right channel from my headphones. I thought it might have been a loose connection so I adjusted the 1/4" adapter plug, which led to me pulling it completely out to inspect. When I pulled it out, I noticed that the tip of the connector was still inside the Asgard. 

After about 45 minutes or so of trying to figure out how to get the piece out, I eventually pulled it out and plugged in a new adapter. However, when I tried listening to something to test it out, the left side was still out. I tried different cables and even a different amp, but still no luck. This led me down to the last piece of gear I hadn't tried testing, the Bifrost (only have had it for a few weeks). 

I just simply cycled through the inputs back to USB and the left channel was back. So far, everything sounds normal. Has this happened to anyone? I've had the Bifrost on for about 3 days straight.


----------



## LeMoviedave

j0val said:


> Had a strange issue tonight. Was going to listen to some music when I noticed that I was only getting sound out of the right channel from my headphones. I thought it might have been a loose connection so I adjusted the 1/4" adapter plug, which led to me pulling it completely out to inspect. When I pulled it out, I noticed that the tip of the connector was still inside the Asgard.
> 
> After about 45 minutes or so of trying to figure out how to get the piece out, I eventually pulled it out and plugged in a new adapter. However, when I tried listening to something to test it out, the left side was still out. I tried different cables and even a different amp, but still no luck. This led me down to the last piece of gear I hadn't tried testing, the Bifrost (only have had it for a few weeks).
> 
> I just simply cycled through the inputs back to USB and the left channel was back. So far, everything sounds normal. Has this happened to anyone? I've had the Bifrost on for about 3 days straight.


I am about to return my BF2 for repair as I think my left RCA input on the unit is loose.  My left channel was cutting out too.  Stuff happens.


----------



## Currawong

emilsal said:


> Anyone have the Bifrost 2 paired with the THX AA 789?  What are your impressions?



With what headphones? I haven't tried that combination for a while, but I do remember that with a good set of cables that I use (yeah, yeah, I know) I was happy with the combination with my headphones.



hiImGrant said:


> The 789 to me wasn’t up to the task of handling what detail the bifrost is capable of producing gracefully. The pairing had a distinct sense of being sharp. The schiit modius on the other hand was an excellent pairing and complements the 789 very well. It makes up for it’s flaws and has a real synergy together imo.



Interesting. I might have to give the combo another go. Were you using the RCA or XLR connection?


----------



## emilsal

Currawong said:


> With what headphones? I haven't tried that combination for a while, but I do remember that with a good set of cables that I use (yeah, yeah, I know) I was happy with the combination with my headphones.


Using Arya and Ether CX.


----------



## Jigetz

I am currently using a Drop 789 and have been quite pleased with the BiFrost 2. That said, I may want to try a different amp to see what else this thing can do. Anyone have any recommendations in the sub $500 range that would pair well?


----------



## emilsal

Jigetz said:


> I am currently using a Drop 789 and have been quite pleased with the BiFrost 2. That said, I may want to try a different amp to see what else this thing can do. Anyone have any recommendations in the sub $500 range that would pair well?


The only thing I can think of is the topping A90 or lyr 3 for that price.


----------



## Jigetz

emilsal said:


> The only thing I can think of is the topping A90 or lyr 3 for that price.


Ok, lets say sub $1k...


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

emilsal said:


> The only thing I can think of is the topping A90 or lyr 3 for that price.



Agree with the Lyr 3 recommendation. I currently use Gilmore Lite Mk2 with Bifrost 2 Sounds great.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Jigetz said:


> I am currently using a Drop 789 and have been quite pleased with the BiFrost 2. That said, I may want to try a different amp to see what else this thing can do. Anyone have any recommendations in the sub $500 range that would pair well?


Jotunheim 
Lyr 3
Topping A90

Those are known to pair well


----------



## j0val

I have an Asgard 3 (which sounds great) and I would love to get a Lyr 3. Too bad it doesn't come in black.


----------



## Jigetz

j0val said:


> I have an Asgard 3 (which sounds great) and I would love to get a Lyr 3. Too bad it doesn't come in black.


I was just noticing that. The Lyr 3 isnt balanced either. I wonder how big of a difference that would make. The lyr is also a tube and the 789 is not... decisions....


----------



## j0val

Jigetz said:


> I was just noticing that. The Lyr 3 isnt balanced either. I wonder how big of a difference that would make. The lyr is also a tube and the 789 is not... decisions....



I might have to hold out for a Lyr 4 or Valhalla 3 to get them in a black color and match my BF2.


----------



## DowdyPrime

j0val said:


> I might have to hold out for a Lyr 4 or Valhalla 3 to get them in a black color and match my BF2.



Liquid platinum is balanced and currently $550. And black.


----------



## Jigetz

Can anyone comment on the differences between the Bifrost 2 w/ 789 and The Jotunheim? Has anyone tried those two combos?


----------



## emilsal

Jigetz said:


> Can anyone comment on the differences between the Bifrost 2 w/ 789 and The Jotunheim? Has anyone tried those two combos?


I’ve had that both amps and the bifrost 2 for a while. The thx to me sounds cleaner and wider. The Jotunheim has always sounded more intimate to me. I give the low end edge to the Jotunheim but mids and highs to the thx.


----------



## emilsal (Aug 25, 2020)

My bifrost 2 died after 3 weeks of ownership. Like suggested by a few here I left it on 24/7 and had no issues with it. I like that it’s already at its optimal temp when I find time to listen to my set up.

One day I wasn’t getting any sound out my setup. I thought it was a setting on my Mac but didn’t have time at the moment to investigate. When I came back to it I noticed that the power indicator was turned off. Cycled the power switch and other outlets. No joy.

I contacted Schiit and they responded to me same day. They emailed me a return label and assured me that the replacement will be sent as soon as the label get scanned and the shipment is active. After I sent the defective unit back I got an email from them that my replacement was on the way using 1 day priority shipping. I expect delivery today. 

It was a good experience dealing with Schiit’s customer service. I am/was concerned that my unit just died all of a sudden. Hopefully I’ll have better luck with the new one.


----------



## jnak00

emilsal said:


> My bifrost 2 died after 3 weeks of ownership. Like suggested by a few here I left it on 24/7 and had no issues with it. I like that it’s already at its optimal temp when I find time to listen to my set up.
> 
> One day I wasn’t getting any sound out my setup. I thought it was a setting on my Mac but didn’t have time at the moment to investigate. When I came back to it I noticed that the power indicator was turned off. Cycled the power switch and other outlets. No joy.
> 
> ...



I had a similar experience with a Modi Multibit years ago, when it first came out.  It died after one day in the same way - no power, and Schiit replaced it just like they are doing with yours.  The replacement Modi is still in use today, 4 years or so later, left on for probably 80-90% of that time, with no issues.  I think you'll be OK with the replacement (which has a five year warranty anyway).


----------



## emilsal (Aug 25, 2020)

jnak00 said:


> I had a similar experience with a Modi Multibit years ago, when it first came out.  It died after one day in the same way - no power, and Schiit replaced it just like they are doing with yours.  The replacement Modi is still in use today, 4 years or so later, left on for probably 80-90% of that time, with no issues.  I think you'll be OK with the replacement (which has a five year warranty anyway).


Yeah I’m optimistic. I owned a Jotunheim with multibit for a couple years with no worries issues.


----------



## Rensek

Ive had my Bifrost 2 powered on almost 24/7 since mid December 2019, without much issue..

A friend of mine has 2 Bifrost 2s and has been happy with them. 

Always a lemon or two out there. Schiits customer service will take care of you.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yep.  My two BF2s have been powered on 24x7 since I bought them.  Never a problem or concern.


----------



## Sean H

Same here as well. My BF2 has been on 24/7 since mid-February when I bought it.


----------



## emilsal

Day 1 of the replacement. We’ll see how long this one lasts. Hopefully no issues with this one.


----------



## Sean H (Aug 26, 2020)

I thought I would report that I recently picked up an iFi Purifier 3 USB and use it between my BF2 and Macbook Pro. Wow, quite an amazing difference, I'm quite surprised and find this little thing is worth every penny. Improvements across the board with no tradeoffs whatsoever. The sound is noticeably cleaner with more resolution of fine detail and better dynamics. Soundstage has grown quite noticeably in all directions. Bass has firmed up with more texture and most of all much more punch. I could hear an improvement the minute I hooked it up but after a few days of playing music through it's really started to shine and all improvements noted above became very clear especially soundstage size which was almost shocking in how much bigger it is now. If you plan to try one of these make sure to let it run in for some time before making any final judgements. Zero tradeoffs, only improvements.


----------



## bigjako (Aug 27, 2020)

Sean H said:


> I thought I would report that I recently picked up an iFi Purifier 3 USB and use it between my BF2 and Macbook Pro. Wow, quite an amazing difference, I'm quite surprised and find this little thing is worth every penny. Improvements across the board with no tradeoffs whatsoever. The sound is noticeably cleaner with more resolution of fine detail and better dynamics. Soundstage has grown quite noticeably in all directions. Bass has firmed up with more texture and most of all much more punch. I could hear an improvement the minute I hooked it up but after a few days of playing music through it's really started to shine and all improvements noted above became very clear especially soundstage size which was almost shocking in how much bigger it is now. If you plan to try one of these make sure to let it run in for some time before making any final judgements. Zero tradeoffs, only improvements.



If you have any experience with it, could you compare the iFi Purifier to the Schiit Eitr?  I'm using an Eitr with my Mimby right now.


----------



## iFi audio

bigjako said:


> If you have any experience with it, could you compare the iFi Purifier to the Schiit Eitr?



Yup, would be nice to know


----------



## xkamran

j0val said:


> Personally, I think the Modius is a very capable DAC, especially at only $200. However, I also ended up with the Bifrost to scratch that "what if" itch and just be done with it. I'm pretty happy with it.


Now i am getting that itch. I got the modius and love it. Is it worth motr than 2 times price of modius?


----------



## emilsal

xkamran said:


> Now i am getting that itch. I got the modius and love it. Is it worth motr than 2 times price of modius?


It’s incrementally better but exponentially more expensive. For my peace of mind yes it’s worth it. I had the Modius then demoed the Bifrost at the Shitt’r. I ordered one same night and returned the Modius.


----------



## j0val

emilsal said:


> It’s incrementally better but exponentially more expensive. For my peace of mind yes it’s worth it. I had the Modius then demoed the Bifrost at the Shitt’r. I ordered one same night and returned the Modius.



I agree with this. I have no regrets on returning the Modius for the Bifrost. For me, it's worth the peace of mind knowing that I have what's considered one of the best DACs out there. It was also a noticeable improvement over the Modius and I still look forward to listening to it each day.


----------



## Sean H

bigjako said:


> If you have any experience with it, could you compare the iFi Purifier to the Schiit Eitr?  I'm using an Eitr with my Mimby right now.



Unfortunately, no, I do not. Sorry. The more I listen and the more this thing settles in, I can't believe the difference it's made. Before I found it to be one heck of a tweak but now its inching toward a component upgrade. Keep in mind most of my observations are in my two-channel system. I'm hearing the improvement in my headphone rig no doubt but in my two-channel system it's very, very noticeable. The impact on the soundstage alone is insane. The music just floats more freely of the speakers in a huge soundstage.


----------



## rkw

j0val said:


> I agree with this. I have no regrets on returning the Modius for the Bifrost. For me, it's worth the peace of mind


Audiophiles never achieve "peace of mind". There is always a nagging feeling that something could be better.


----------



## theveterans

rkw said:


> Audiophiles never achieve "peace of mind". There is always a nagging feeling that something could be better.


 
Just one advice: Don’t ever fall into audio nervosa


----------



## Ripper2860

I rush into it headlong and willingly. 😄


----------



## Rensek

Ripper2860 said:


> I rush into it headlong and willingly. 😄



ahhhh that's where I learned it from.....


----------



## jkpenrose

Pulled the trigger and ordered the BF2 on Thursday!


----------



## markkr

I would like to use both outputs of the BF2 to switch between 2 of my amps. Unfortunately both of my amps are single ended, Can i simply buy XLR to RCA adapters and use both outputs?


----------



## Mark-sf

markkr said:


> I would like to use both outputs of the BF2 to switch between 2 of my amps. Unfortunately both of my amps are single ended, Can i simply buy XLR to RCA adapters and use both outputs?


There is no output switch on the BF2 to select between the two outputs. You can simply use an pair of RCA Y-connectors on the outputs.


----------



## Ripper2860

With BF2 XLR (balanced) and RCA (SE) are both outputting signal simultaneously.  Y-adapters or a Schiit SYS switch will do just fine.


----------



## rkw (Aug 30, 2020)

markkr said:


> Can i simply buy XLR to RCA adapters and use both outputs?


No, don't do that. The XLR negative signals on left and right side will become tied together and potentially damage something. Use the RCA outputs with Y splitters as others have suggested.


----------



## Sschaffer24

markkr said:


> I would like to use both outputs of the BF2 to switch between 2 of my amps. Unfortunately both of my amps are single ended, Can i simply buy XLR to RCA adapters and use both outputs?



This is a question I have as well. Planning on buying a Bifrost 2 soon (hoping to find one used) and want to use this to source my PC speakers as well as my RSA Raptor. Am I able to have both of these connected (my speakers can accept a balanced signal and amp accepts RCA) so I plan on connecting the speakers via XLR output and amp via RCA. Is this going to work as I expect?

Also, if anyone has a line on a used bifrost 2, I would love to know.


----------



## RyanJ

Sschaffer24 said:


> This is a question I have as well. Planning on buying a Bifrost 2 soon (hoping to find one used) and want to use this to source my PC speakers as well as my RSA Raptor. Am I able to have both of these connected (my speakers can accept a balanced signal and amp accepts RCA) so I plan on connecting the speakers via XLR output and amp via RCA. Is this going to work as I expect?
> 
> Also, if anyone has a line on a used bifrost 2, I would love to know.


I did something very similar with my modius, and had zero issues. Xlr outputs went to my magnius, rca to my valhalla 2. Both dac outputs were active simultaneously. I had emailed schiit to make sure it wasn't an issue, and they confirmed it was fine


----------



## Sschaffer24

RyanJ said:


> I did something very similar with my modius, and had zero issues. Xlr outputs went to my magnius, rca to my valhalla 2. Both dac outputs were active simultaneously. I had emailed schiit to make sure it wasn't an issue, and they confirmed it was fine



So am I correct that in this situation my speakers and headphones would essentially be receiving audio signals at the same time? Which means I would just simply need to turn them off/lower the volume on them and then simply turn them back up when I want to use the speakers. Does this sound correct? It's difficult not having the device in front of me to test! Haha.


----------



## jnak00

@Sschaffer24 Yes, that is correct.  Both amps would receive the signal from the Bifrost and you just power/volume control the amps to get sound where you want


----------



## Sschaffer24

jnak00 said:


> @Sschaffer24 Yes, that is correct.  Both amps would receive the signal from the Bifrost and you just power/volume control the amps to get sound where you want



Awesome! Thanks for the info.


----------



## Arcayne

Sschaffer24 said:


> This is a question I have as well. Planning on buying a Bifrost 2 soon (hoping to find one used) and want to use this to source my PC speakers as well as my RSA Raptor. Am I able to have both of these connected (my speakers can accept a balanced signal and amp accepts RCA) so I plan on connecting the speakers via XLR output and amp via RCA. Is this going to work as I expect?


There are rumors of a Saga 2 potentially being on the horizon, which will include balanced I/O like the Freya, just at cost of some RCA inputs. This is what I'm patiently waiting for to accomplish roughly the same thing you're describing.


----------



## NigelJ

Arcayne said:


> There are rumors of a Saga 2 potentially being on the horizon, which will include balanced I/O like the Freya, just at cost of some RCA inputs. This is what I'm patiently waiting for to accomplish roughly the same thing you're describing.



Whilst one can never be sure of what Schiit will do, I believe that this is highly unlikely.

They launched the previous models of Saga and Freya only 16 months ago, in May 2019, and have recently discontinued the solid state versions, Saga S and Freya S, as their sales were much lower than the tube versions, Saga + and Freya +.. Production of a new solid state Saga is therefore extremely unlikely and a balanced tube version would not fit in a Saga sized case; in addition, such a case size with only two balanced inputs and a single balanced output would not have enough space for even a single RCA input and an RCA output, thus would be balanced only. Moving up to the Freya size case, the savings from a reduced number of inputs would provide minimal cost savings and thus a product with little differentiation from the existing Freya +; it would also potentially make both the new preamp and the Freya + more expensive due to splitting sales across two models.

Whilst I would also like a solid state, Saga sized, balanced and single ended I/O preamp I just don't think it will happen anytime soon. I can't help thinking that any such rumour is simply wishful thinking.


----------



## Arcayne

NigelJ said:


> Whilst one can never be sure of what Schiit will do, I believe that this is highly unlikely.
> 
> They launched the previous models of Saga and Freya only 16 months ago, in May 2019, and have recently discontinued the solid state versions, Saga S and Freya S, as their sales were much lower than the tube versions, Saga + and Freya +.. Production of a new solid state Saga is therefore extremely unlikely and a balanced tube version would not fit in a Saga sized case; in addition, such a case size with only two balanced inputs and a single balanced output would not have enough space for even a single RCA input and an RCA output, thus would be balanced only. Moving up to the Freya size case, the savings from a reduced number of inputs would provide minimal cost savings and thus a product with little differentiation from the existing Freya +; it would also potentially make both the new preamp and the Freya + more expensive due to splitting sales across two models.
> 
> Whilst I would also like a solid state, Saga sized, balanced and single ended I/O preamp I just don't think it will happen anytime soon. I can't help thinking that any such rumour is simply wishful thinking.


Here's a link: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/saga-2-ideas-from-freya-s.9735/


----------



## NigelJ (Sep 6, 2020)

Arcayne said:


> Here's a link:



Thanks for the link, good to know that it was a suggestion from Jason.

FYI Links to that site, and its predecessor, are generally not liked on this site by the moderators, so you may find your post deleted and receivje a warning from a moderator. There are historical reasons for this although enforcement does not seem to always happen recently.

Edited to correct error in position of f sub clause.


----------



## Neweymatt

Been stalking this and other Schiit DAC threads for a few months, noticed a B Stock 230v BF2 on the website this morning and pounced.

Many thanks for the thoughts impressions, I’m sure I won’t be disappointed listening with the Asgard3 I received a couple weeks ago!


----------



## johnnyEars

Neweymatt said:


> Been stalking this and other Schiit DAC threads for a few months, noticed a B Stock 230v BF2 on the website this morning and pounced.
> 
> Many thanks for the thoughts impressions, I’m sure I won’t be disappointed listening with the Asgard3 I received a couple weeks ago!



ive been enjoying that combo for a few months! Good choice!


----------



## tafens

Neweymatt said:


> Been stalking this and other Schiit DAC threads for a few months, noticed a B Stock 230v BF2 on the website this morning and pounced.
> 
> Many thanks for the thoughts impressions, I’m sure I won’t be disappointed listening with the Asgard3 I received a couple weeks ago!



Congrats on the find! 230V units are quite a bit more rare in the B stock page than 115V, at least when I’ve looked 

Thoroughly enjoying my BF2 here, in my case with a Lyr3. It is a great upgrade from the internal multibit card


----------



## gahan

Neweymatt said:


> Been stalking this and other Schiit DAC threads for a few months, noticed a B Stock 230v BF2 on the website this morning and pounced.
> 
> Many thanks for the thoughts impressions, I’m sure I won’t be disappointed listening with the Asgard3 I received a couple weeks ago!



My BF2 B-Stock 230V died yesterday... Buyed last July, worked fine two months. No sound, no clicking relay muting... I hope good service from Schiit.


----------



## joshua9061

Are there any plans to expand the colors available?


----------



## johnnyEars

joshua9061 said:


> Are there any plans to expand the colors available?


It took years for Schiit to have anything besides silver (although now it looks like they are leaning more strongly into black over silver, alas). So I don’t think it’s likely. Unless someone has heard some whispers...


----------



## GumbyDammit223

johnnyEars said:


> It took years for Schiit to have anything besides silver (although now it looks like they are leaning more strongly into black over silver, alas). So I don’t think it’s likely. Unless someone has heard some whispers...


You can always buy one, take the shell off and have it powder coated in whatever color floats your boat.


----------



## LeMoviedave

I know it has only been a little over a year, but I am really curious what upgrades might come down the pipe.  Schiit, if you are listening, dual AD5791BRUZ chips.  Keep the timbre and bump the already impressive technicalities!


----------



## Neweymatt

So I've now had the Bifrost2 for about 5 days, left it on since powering it up out of the box.

I'm using Tidal on MacBook Pro->USB to the Bifrost->Asgard3-> CA Cascade.  Sounds brilliant, definitely not as harsh, esp in the treble, as day one. I've also invested in SoundSource, great EQ and audio management for the Mac.

So do I just leave it on 24/7 from now on?  If I turn it off will it have to 'burn-in' again?

Also what's the consensus on using UnisonUSB input vs SPDIF?  
Can I expect better SQ if I use a dedicated streamer like a DigiOne or Pi2AES?


----------



## kumar402

Neweymatt said:


> So I've now had the Bifrost2 for about 5 days, left it on since powering it up out of the box.
> 
> I'm using Tidal on MacBook Pro->USB to the Bifrost->Asgard3-> CA Cascade.  Sounds brilliant, definitely not as harsh, esp in the treble, as day one. I've also invested in SoundSource, great EQ and audio management for the Mac.
> 
> ...


They do need to reach a particular thermal stability to perform at their best but with Bifrost you don't have to wait like Yagg or Gungnir. It will sound at its best within 2-3 hrs.
Yes, Digione or Pi2AES will give you definite improvement. But do note Digione will need LPS or 18650 battery for tighter bass and improved sound.


----------



## ev666il

FWIW, I keep mine on 24/7 (except when I leave the house for extended periods of time, like when I go on vacation) and use Unison USB exclusively.


----------



## Acapella48

Hello,

I'm new, just joined today.  Not new to audio but new to headphones, at least for serious listening on a regular basis and I've never owned a headphone amp.  
Ordered my first, I guess what might be considered entry-level headphones from Drop the other day.  Maybe I'm taking a backwards approach but I'm looking at DACs first (Bifrost) and considering what amp to pair it with.  This rig would be for desktop not part of my main system.  The 9 x 6ish x 2 ish footprint is ideal for my desktop area.  My desk area could accommodate a larger footprint but I'm still in evaluation/decision mode.

I'm not very familiar with the forum at this point, so I thought I'd start here to get some ideas on how others are configuring their Schiit.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Acapella48 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new, just joined today.  Not new to audio but new to headphones, at least for serious listening on a regular basis and I've never owned a headphone amp.
> Ordered my first, I guess what might be considered entry-level headphones from Drop the other day.  Maybe I'm taking a backwards approach but I'm looking at DACs first (Bifrost) and considering what amp to pair it with.  This rig would be for desktop not part of my main system.  The 9 x 6ish x 2 ish footprint is ideal for my desktop area.  My desk area could accommodate a larger footprint but I'm still in evaluation/decision mode.
> ...



First of all, welcome!  You'll find schiitloads of good information, opinion, and everything in between.  To help give recommendations, what type of headphones did you get?  That will play a huge role in what amp will work well with them.  I would recommend perusing Jason Stoddard's thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/ for some good reading!

Have fun!


----------



## Acapella48

GumbyDammit223 said:


> First of all, welcome! You'll find schiitloads of good information, opinion, and everything in between. To help give recommendations, what type of headphones did you get? That will play a huge role in what amp will work well with them. I would recommend perusing Jason Stoddard's thread https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/ for some good reading!
> 
> Have fun!



Thanks for the welcome.  I ordered a pair of Sennheiser HD 6XX's.  I also posted in the Schiit Owners Unite thread but I will definitely check out Jason's thread.

Thanks again.


----------



## RastaDolphin

Acapella48 said:


> Thanks for the welcome.  I ordered a pair of Sennheiser HD 6XX's.  I also posted in the Schiit Owners Unite thread but I will definitely check out Jason's thread.
> 
> Thanks again.


Welcome! Almost unanimously, people recommend tube amps for the HD 6__ line. So, probably the easiest recommendation would be a Schiit Valhalla(?) if you're like me and into keeping your desk looking nice and clean with all your Schiit and also, like me, love the company. I had a Lyr 2 for a long time but that's a hybrid and wouldn't give you as much tuby-ness. If you wanna go solid state, I've been drooling over the new Asgard. My 2 cents.


----------



## johnnyEars

RastaDolphin said:


> Welcome! Almost unanimously, people recommend tube amps for the HD 6__ line. So, probably the easiest recommendation would be a Schiit Valhalla(?) if you're like me and into keeping your desk looking nice and clean with all your Schiit and also, like me, love the company. I had a Lyr 2 for a long time but that's a hybrid and wouldn't give you as much tuby-ness. If you wanna go solid state, I've been drooling over the new Asgard. My 2 cents.


I can recommend the BiFrost 2 > Asgard 3 > HD6xx chain! I love the combo, although I’m really curious about trying an OTL tube amp with these someday


----------



## Rattle (Oct 7, 2020)

johnnyEars said:


> I can recommend the BiFrost 2 > Asgard 3 > HD6xx chain! I love the combo, although I’m really curious about trying an OTL tube amp with these someday



This is indeed a beast of a setup. Bifrost 2 gives Asgard 3 that extra kick to really be synergistic with HD650/HD600 

It might seem weird to pair a $700 dac that has xlr to a 199.99 SE amp.. but it's not


----------



## Neweymatt

Rattle said:


> This is indeed a beast of a setup. Bifrost 2 gives Asgard 3 that extra kick to really be synergistic with HD650/HD600
> 
> It might seem weird to pair a $700 dac that has xlr to a 199.99 SE amp.. but it's not


Not so weird, actually, although I did spend an almost agonising amount of time studying this before settling on BF2->A3 stack for my first desktop setup.  

For me, I  just wanted to keep this first purchase a bit simple, and avoid the distraction and $$ of XLR cables and Tubes.  Again, I'm still kinda new to this, so those $$ are better spent on headphones in my case..

Also both are fairly young in their release cycle, and while there is always something 'better' you can chase, I feel this is a system I can get quite a lot of enjoyment out of before feeling any desire to upgrade (famous last words, i know..)


----------



## ev666il

I too can attest to the sonic pleasantness of the Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 combination—although I’m sure you’ll find just as many users ready to swear by the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 setup.

I ended up replacing the Asgard 3 with a Jotunheim to satisfy my long-standing craving for a balanced chain, and it turned out the Jotunheim better aligns to my preferred sound signature. I’m surprised, however, to see so few users singing the praise of this combination—and to think they wanted “cheap-ass balanced” on the Bifrost 2 specifically to have a Jotunheim-sized balanced DAC to stack on top of it!


----------



## Rattle

ev666il said:


> I too can attest to the sonic pleasantness of the Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 combination—although I’m sure you’ll find just as many users ready to swear by the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 setup.
> 
> I ended up replacing the Asgard 3 with a Jotunheim to satisfy my long-standing craving for a balanced chain, and it turned out the Jotunheim better aligns to my preferred sound signature. I’m surprised, however, to see so few users singing the praise of this combination—and to think they wanted “cheap-ass balanced” on the Bifrost 2 specifically to have a Jotunheim-sized balanced DAC to stack on top of it!



Any chance you have some impressions on Jot vs Asgard 3 with 650? I've toyed with getting a JOT as my other 2 amps are tube amps and like to have a good SS around.


----------



## ev666il (Oct 8, 2020)

Alas, I haven’t really used the HD650 with either amp—been running Focal cans ever since I bought the Asgard 3.

Asgard 3 is closer to the archetypical “audiophile” sound signature, warm and laid back. Jotunheim is colder and more in-your-face, with IMHO better instrument separation than Asgard 3, but I get why some would prefer the warmer presentation of the latter.


----------



## tafens

ev666il said:


> I too can attest to the sonic pleasantness of the Bifrost 2 / Asgard 3 combination—although I’m sure you’ll find just as many users ready to swear by the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 setup.



I was just about to write exactly that 
That BF2/Lyr3 is a great combo too, I mean


----------



## SnowRang3r

New here. I recently got a pair of Focal Clear’s but now thinking about upgrading my front end.

I’ve pretty much decided on the Bifrost 2 but not really sure what amp to pair it with. Asgard 3, Jot, or Lyr 3 are on the mind. I like the matching case and integrated power transformer.

Asgard 3 seems like an insane bargain at $199. Jot interest me as I have balanced cables already, I’ve heard some call the Jot long in the tooth but others seem to really enjoy it. I’ve never used tubes so both curious and scared of the Lyr 3 haha...

I listen to a lot of genres. But lately been rediscovering classic rock. I grew up listening to a lot with my parents but already hearing more than I did before. Hearing those tracks I know but more is very exciting and I guess why I’m hunting for more.

When I started down this rabbit hole I thought all I cared about was detail. Just give me more detail! But now I realize how much I care about soundstage, tone and timbre as well. I used to play piano and guitar so hearing them accurately reproduced is very satisfying.

If anyone has any advice I’d appreciate it!


----------



## nasty nate

SnowRang3r said:


> New here. I recently got a pair of Focal Clear’s but now thinking about upgrading my front end.
> 
> I’ve pretty much decided on the Bifrost 2 but not really sure what amp to pair it with. Asgard 3, Jot, or Lyr 3 are on the mind. I like the matching case and integrated power transformer.
> 
> ...



If you don't mind sacrificing the balanced aspect - I recommend the Lyr 3 - tube rolling is much easier than it seems, and 6SN7 is just about the most popular / most produced pre-amp tube type - so no shortage of options and information available. 

Sonically - the Lyr 3 blew my Asgard 2 out of the water (not to knock the Asgard, it is one of the best sub 300 dollar class A amps ever made imo) - I can listen at higher volumes, and to a greater variety of music. Detail retrieval is improved, and soundstage is larger imo. All the audiophile tropes proved relevant in this case. 

I hear something new every day in music I _thought _I knew... My current chain is Bifrost 2 (USB)  --> Lyr 3 --> HD800S 

Hope this helps


----------



## johnnyEars

Rattle said:


> This is indeed a beast of a setup. Bifrost 2 gives Asgard 3 that extra kick to really be synergistic with HD650/HD600
> 
> It might seem weird to pair a $700 dac that has xlr to a 199.99 SE amp.. but it's not



I agree it’s great. But I see why it might seem strange. In my case I bought it incorporate it into my future balanced 2-channel set-up (which is currently being assembled slowly). It is definitely a step up from Modi 3 in this chain. I was surprised how many people have the same set-up as us, though!


----------



## SnowRang3r

nasty nate said:


> If you don't mind sacrificing the balanced aspect - I recommend the Lyr 3 - tube rolling is much easier than it seems, and 6SN7 is just about the most popular / most produced pre-amp tube type - so no shortage of options and information available.
> 
> Sonically - the Lyr 3 blew my Asgard 2 out of the water (not to knock the Asgard, it is one of the best sub 300 dollar class A amps ever made imo) - I can listen at higher volumes, and to a greater variety of music. Detail retrieval is improved, and soundstage is larger imo. All the audiophile tropes proved relevant in this case.
> 
> ...



It does help, thank you. I don't think it's changing the tubes that scares me it's the fact that it's a whole new rabbit hole to dive down. Can be fun but also time consuming!


----------



## cebuboy

Hi all, just got the Bifrost 2 and the Macbook can't detect it when connected to USB. Macbook running OS X 10.11.6 using PYST USB cable, so it meets the minimum requirements. Amp is a BH Crack. Macbook USB works perfectly with Modi MB and with Eitr + Modi MB. Bifrost 2 also works when using Eitr in between. Bifrost 2 also works when connected to Iphone 8 via CCK and PYST USB cable... I'm done racking my brains as to why it wont work with the Macbook via USB...

Any of you encounter this? Already turned off app nap, maybe an external powered hub perhaps? But it kinda defeats the purpose of unison.


----------



## bmn1251

I have the bf2 paired with the MZ2 and was floored by this combo. Solid pairing. Would anyone have a goid upgrade to the bf2 with this pairing for me down the road?


----------



## ozz

cebuboy said:


> Hi all, just got the Bifrost 2 and the Macbook can't detect it when connected to USB. Macbook running OS X 10.11.6 using PYST USB cable, so it meets the minimum requirements. Amp is a BH Crack. Macbook USB works perfectly with Modi MB and with Eitr + Modi MB. Bifrost 2 also works when using Eitr in between. Bifrost 2 also works when connected to Iphone 8 via CCK and PYST USB cable... I'm done racking my brains as to why it wont work with the Macbook via USB...
> 
> Any of you encounter this? Already turned off app nap, maybe an external powered hub perhaps? But it kinda defeats the purpose of unison.


In the tool bar at the top when you tap on the speaker icon does it show Shiit Multibit as one of your options and it should gray out the speaker icon when selected had the issue once a simple reconect of the usb fixed it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 10, 2020)

Not a Mac owner, but I found these two links on Schiit's site...

https://www.schiit.com/guides/dac-problems

https://www.schiit.com/guides/usb-problems

They have a few Mac related pointers.


----------



## cebuboy

Ripper2860 said:


> Not a Mac owner, but I found these to links on Schiit's site...
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/guides/dac-problems
> 
> ...



Thanks, tried them including turning off app nap. no bueno. Can't seem to get unison detected by the mac. but the Iphone can connect fine. Weird problem, as it should work. No problems using is with Eitr...



ozz said:


> In the tool bar at the top when you tap on the speaker icon does it show Shiit Multibit as one of your options and it should gray out the speaker icon when selected had the issue once a simple reconect of the usb fixed it.



The Bifrost 2 wont show in the options, unlike the Eitr and Modi MB.


----------



## TheTechQ

cebuboy said:


> Hi all, just got the Bifrost 2 and the Macbook can't detect it when connected to USB. Macbook running OS X 10.11.6 using PYST USB cable, so it meets the minimum requirements. Amp is a BH Crack. Macbook USB works perfectly with Modi MB and with Eitr + Modi MB. Bifrost 2 also works when using Eitr in between. Bifrost 2 also works when connected to Iphone 8 via CCK and PYST USB cable... I'm done racking my brains as to why it wont work with the Macbook via USB...
> 
> Any of you encounter this? Already turned off app nap, maybe an external powered hub perhaps? But it kinda defeats the purpose of unison.


Try a different USB cable. I had trouble with the first one. If you have multiple available USB ports on the conputer, try another port.


----------



## cebuboy

TheTechQ said:


> Try a different USB cable. I had trouble with the first one. If you have multiple available USB ports on the conputer, try another port.



did that already, looks like it just does not want to jive with this old macbook. switching ports and cables.. but it does work with an iphone via cck adapter and a windows computer...


----------



## ev666il

Can it be that Unison requires a newer version of MacOS than you are running?

Since in the Windows world it only supports 10, maybe something similar occurs on the Mac side.


----------



## cebuboy

ev666il said:


> Can it be that Unison requires a newer version of MacOS than you are running?
> 
> Since in the Windows world it only supports 10, maybe something similar occurs on the Mac side.



That is what I'm thinking, their site says OS X 10.10, I'm running 10.11... but anyways, still sounds great with the Eitr


----------



## ozz

I am running 10.15.7 on a 2019 MacBook Pro with USB ver 2.01 and as was said it may require a newer version .


----------



## cebuboy

Welp, this is the end of the road for this macbook, this is a 2008 model... Can't upgrade the OS anymore. 10.11.6 is the latest for this mac, but is just refuses to die.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I have a bottlehead crack and I needed a DAC, so I bought the Modi Multibit.   I love the sound.   But, I was wondering, how much improvement to the sound does a DAC upgrade make like to the Schiit Bifrost or Gungnir?


----------



## cebuboy

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I have a bottlehead crack and I needed a DAC, so I bought the Modi Multibit.   I love the sound.   But, I was wondering, how much improvement to the sound does a DAC upgrade make like to the Schiit Bifrost or Gungnir?


I also use a BH Crack with HD650 and Modi MB before springing for the Bifrost 2. If you have the money, get one. If you like the multibit sound, you will like the Bifrost 2.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

cebuboy said:


> I also use a BH Crack with HD650 and Modi MB before springing for the Bifrost 2. If you have the money, get one. If you like the multibit sound, you will like the Bifrost 2.


What type of improvements to Sound Quality will such an upgrade get?


----------



## ozz

cebuboy said:


> Welp, this is the end of the road for this macbook, this is a 2008 model... Can't upgrade the OS anymore. 10.11.6 is the latest for this mac, but is just refuses to die.


I gave my 2009 away for that same reason but still works for the person I gave to just can not upgrade it.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 13, 2020)

For USB on BF2 the computer or device connecting must be USB UAC 2 compliant.  If it is an older USB UAC 1 MacBook, it won't work with Unison.


----------



## ozz

But o n a 2008 MacBook Pro the headphone jack doubles as SPDIF you just have to get the right cable and it could feed the B2. Monoprice has all lengths and the right cable interface.


----------



## rkw

ozz said:


> But o n a 2008 MacBook Pro the headphone jack doubles as SPDIF you just have to get the right cable and it could feed the B2. Monoprice has all lengths and the right cable interface.


This is true. The headphone jack on older MacBook Pro doubles as an optical Toslink connector. You would need an optical cable with 3.5mm mini Toslink at one end, and standard Toslink on the other end. However, @cebuboy is already using USB+Eitr and it may not be an improvement.


----------



## NigelJ (Oct 10, 2020)

ev666il said:


> ...I ended up replacing the Asgard 3 with a Jotunheim to satisfy my long-standing craving for a balanced chain, and it turned out the Jotunheim better aligns to my preferred sound signature. I’m surprised, however, to see so few users singing the praise of this combination—and to think they wanted “cheap-ass balanced” on the Bifrost 2 specifically to have a Jotunheim-sized balanced DAC to stack on top of it!


 (red highlight added)

Don't stack the Bifrost on top of the Jotunheim, stack the amplifier on top of the DAC, see:


Jason Stoddard said:


> I stack my Asgard 3 on top of my Bifrost 2. They get warm. It's fine. We wouldn't have a 5-year warranty if we didn't think they wouldn't last 10 when stacked like that. Remember, we've been around for 9.5 years now, building products that ran a LOT hotter than Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 (looking at you, previous Asgards and Lyrs), without thermal failures.
> 
> Before I stacked the Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2, I stacked my Lyr 3 on top of my Bifrost 2 prototype (which was in a 3D printed plastic chassis.) The plastic chassis melted a bit, but it worked fine for about a year otherwise.
> 
> However...stacking things on top of the amp (Jotunheim, Asgard 3, etc) is not such a great idea--which is why the manuals say you shouldn't block the vent holes.


 (red highlights added)


----------



## Rattle

I don't stack my Asgard 3 and Bifrost2. They both run much cooler without being stacked. It looks cool stacked but way hotter. Way less heat if not stacked. Probably doesn't matter but the difference is huge.


----------



## bboris77

Rattle said:


> I don't stack my Asgard 3 and Bifrost2. They both run much cooler without being stacked. It looks cool stacked but way hotter. Way less heat if not stacked. Probably doesn't matter but the difference is huge.



I felt the same way. I am sure that it was 100% safe and within the spec, but the Asgard 3 gets very hot on the bottom, and the Bifrost 2 gets warm all around, much more so than the Bifrost 1. That made me slightly uncomfortable mainly because the Bifrost 2 ran at least 5C warmer with the toasty Asgard 3 on top of it than it did on its own. Whether it impacted the performance or longevity, it is hard to tell.


----------



## Rattle

bboris77 said:


> I felt the same way. I am sure that it was 100% safe and within the spec, but the Asgard 3 gets very hot on the bottom, and the Bifrost 2 gets warm all around, much more so than the Bifrost 1. That made me slightly uncomfortable mainly because the Bifrost 2 ran at least 5C warmer with the toasty Asgard 3 on top of it than it did on its own. Whether it impacted the performance or longevity, it is hard to tell.



My stack got significantly toasty stacked. I didn't measure it but it was pretty damn hot, especially BF2 which never gets north of warm in my headphone rack. It almost acted as an addition heatsink to the A3. A3 was hotter than it's ever got on top of BF2 as well. I don't need it stacked as I have a small metal headphone rack that keeps things very cool and I have more than one amp and dac.


----------



## cebuboy

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> What type of improvements to Sound Quality will such an upgrade get?



the first thing I noticed is that there is better separation and air, top end is smoother analog like, details are great but not harsh anymore. Will listen to it more.


----------



## NigelJ (Oct 11, 2020)

bboris77 said:


> ...Whether it impacted the performance or longevity, it is hard to tell.



I am not certain if you realise that the Jason Stoddard I quoted in my post is the co-owner and founder of Schiit Audio, the designer of their amplifiers, and has input to their DAC designs. As he clearly stated that there "it's fine", I do not think that anyone need have any concern about stacking with the amplifier on top:


Jason Stoddard said:


> I stack my Asgard 3 on top of my Bifrost 2. They get warm. It's fine. We wouldn't have a 5-year warranty if we didn't think they wouldn't last 10 when stacked like that. Remember, we've been around for 9.5 years now, building products that ran a LOT hotter than Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 (looking at you, previous Asgards and Lyrs), without thermal failures. ...



*Edit:*

I did not intend to imply that they will not run cooler when not directly stacked: either placed next to each other (but remember to allow space between them for ventilation through the Asgard's side vents); or on racking. Nor did I intend to imply that cooler running would be an issue. However, remember they are intended to be reasonably compact desktop components and not full size components, that would be more expected to be placed on a rack. I would not like to discourage possible future owners, by giving them the erroneous idea that they cannot be safely stacked and require extra space or dedicated racking.

PS I am currently happily using an Asguard 3 and Bifrost 2 stack as a living room system, but am in the course of planning a new setup in which they may well end up not stacked and placed on racking along with my AV equipment.


----------



## bboris77

NigelJ said:


> I am not certain if you realise that the Jason Stoddard I quoted in my post is the co-owner and founder of Schiit Audio, the designer of their amplifiers, and has input to their DAC designs. As he clearly stated that there "it's fine", I do not think that anyone need have any concern about stacking with the amplifier on top:
> 
> 
> *Edit:*
> ...



It is good that Jason confirmed that it should not impact the longevity of these components. My only question would be whether the fluctuations in temperature caused by turning the Asgard 3 on and off while it is on top of the Bifrost 2 could potentially affect the performance of the DAC in any way. Remember, the Yggdrasil is famous for requiring an extended warm up time to sound its best. I know that there has been a lot of debate whether this is placebo or not, but let's assume for a second that it is real. Since the Bifrost 2 is also a resistor-based DAC, it is plausible to assume that it has a temperature range in which it operates most efficiently. Since turning on the Asgard 3 changes the operating temperature of the Bifrost 2 by at least 5 degrees Celsius, it would be interesting to know how that affects the performance of the DAC. Perhaps people who stack these 2 should keep the Asgard 3 on all the time to eliminate temperature fluctuations. 

Or maybe it's just all audiophilia nervosa, and it makes exactly zero difference


----------



## quimbo

I placed these between my BiFrost 1 and Lyr 3 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081KVKCZ9/ - and the temperature is lower based on feel.  I also put a set between my desktop and BiFrost 1


----------



## tafens

NigelJ said:


> PS I am currently happily using an Asguard 3 and Bifrost 2 stack as a living room system, but am in the course of planning a new setup in which they may well end up not stacked and placed on racking along with my AV equipment.



I’m using Lyr3 stacked on top of Bifrost2 with no issues at all, although I have some extra spacing between them in the form of larger rubber feet giving about 1 cm clearance between them.






Placing these with the flat side down on the Bifrost2, the original rubber feet of the Lyr3 fits right into the hole in them so it stands steadily on top of them and on the Bifrost2.


----------



## NigelJ

bboris77 said:


> Or maybe it's just all audiophilia nervosa, and it makes exactly zero difference





bboris77 said:


> ...Remember, the Yggdrasil is famous for requiring an extended warm up time to sound its best. I know that there has been a lot of debate whether this is placebo or not, but let's assume for a second that it is real. Since the Bifrost 2 is also a resistor-based DAC, it is plausible to assume that it has a temperature range in which it operates most efficiently. ...


Mike Moffat (@Baldr), Schiit Audio's co-owner, founder and DAC guru, has previously indicated that the warm up time is directly related to equivalent bit depth and also DAC chip size. Yggdrasil has an equivalent bit depth of 21 bits (two 20 bit chips per channel) whilst Brifrost 2 has a depth of 18 bit, the Bifrost 2 DAC is also smaller so warm up should be more than eight times faster (eight times for 18 bits versus 21 bits plus the effect of smaller chip).


bboris77 said:


> ...Since turning on the Asgard 3 changes the operating temperature of the Bifrost 2 by at least 5 degrees Celsius, it would be interesting to know how that affects the performance of the DAC. ...


5 degrees Celcius is significantly less than the likely difference between the temperature of the DAC chip when powered off and powered on, indeed it is also likely to be les than the difference in room temperature over the course of a year, unless you have tightly controlled air conditioning. (Living in the UK, where domestic air conditioning is not common and older heating systems tend to rely on a single thermostat for the house, I see my room temperature falling in a range of around 10 degrees C over most of the year but peaking at around 20 degrees C when the most extreme temperatures are taken into account.) Consequently the effect of 5 degrees C is probably not significant. Further, with most headphones, it is likely that Asguard 3 generates most heat when idle and less heat when driving headphones; as it operates in class A up to 500 mW, so produces less heat as more power goes to the headphones until sometime after it goes out of class A.


----------



## SnowRang3r

Alright Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2 on the way (should be here tomorrow!) A number of people recommended Lyr 3 but I could already see myself ordering all of the tubes so held off for now... Excited to try the new stack!


----------



## Rattle

Asgard 3 doesn't sound like a SS amp so no worries !


----------



## cebuboy (Oct 13, 2020)

Ripper2860 said:


> For USB on BF2 the computer or device connecting must be USB UAC 2 complaint.  If it is an older USB UAC 1 MacBook, it won't work with Unison.



Yahoo! It is working now, MAC just needed a PRAM and SMC reset.

Welp, I spoke too soon, after selecting Bigrost as the output device, it froze when I played music. Reinserted the usb cable and it came back to not selectable as an audio device again. Must be something with this mac and osx 10.11.6. Will just use this with the Eitr.


----------



## SnowRang3r (Oct 15, 2020)

Alright... Asgard 3 and Bifrost 2 in the house. Most of my listening was with the Focal Clear Pro's (except for gaming I use a AKG K702. Focal's are too nice to put a mod mic on imo)

Unboxing Bifrost 2 definitively feels more substantial than the Modius. I enjoy that it's USB B and that it has it's own power. Even the button to change sources is more solid. Similar look but more solid all around.

Upon first listening I didn't notice huge differences but I know a lot of people here mention mutli-bit DACs take a while to warm up. I think it was 2-3 hours in where I really started to notice changes. Bass has more texture and was less one note (not any more bass output but easier to tell what instrument made the sound. No real advantage here with EDM but I listen to a bit of everything), this already had me checking out a number of tracks I know well.

Other fine details that I had to focus on in Modius seem to jump out at me more with Bifrost 2. It's like 2 photos but one the auto focus overshot where the other one is tack sharp (not sure how many people are also into photography but when you nail focus it's very rewarding). Even hearing things in the background that aren't intended to be part of the recording "did he just hit a button on his shirt?" type moments

Soundstage is a bit more 3D but is really dependent on the track. Some tracks just sound left to right, others I can hear all around. Which lead to me trying this stack for gaming. WOW I can tell distance so well now, I felt like I could see through walls. This actually has lead to me dying more in the past few days (knowing where guys, leads to me pushing but I keep getting outnumbered). I'm too in shock with how well I can tell where people are that I'm forgetting to communicate with my team (my own fault). Tonight going to play again and try and tell them "Hey I know where they are, follow me".

Overall Bifrost 2 seems like a great upgrade from Modius. A lot of my friends likely would never justify a DAC that costs this much and that's okay, but for me I 100% appreciate what it offers. If anything it makes my want to try the Yggdrasil one day...


Probably going to keep the Modius and use it in my parents stereo I'm helping them build in the next few months. Schiit everywhere


----------



## blackdragon87

Just ordered the BF2 b stock in silver after selling my black mimby . Excited to try this out as ive wanted one for more than 6 months lol.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

blackdragon87 said:


> Just ordered the BF2 b stock in silver after selling my black mimby . Excited to try this out as ive wanted one for more than 6 months lol.


I have been thinking about upgrading my modi multibit for a bifrost 2 multibit.   I am sure that it will be a nice upgrade to my system.   I will be pairing it with my Bottlehead Crack.   
Have also been considering using a Bluesound Node 2i streamer.   Since it has an embedded DAC that supports MQA and I only use Tidal for my source music, would I be better of holding off on the Bimby purchase and get the Node 2i instead?   Ultimately, I will be upgrading my entire system to support loud speakers, so I was wondering if people had an opinion on this choice.


----------



## blackdragon87

I plan on using it first singled ended with my Asgard 3 and Valhalla 2. Then later on I will try it with my Multibit jot with the balanced xlr cables i ordered from them as well.


----------



## blackdragon87

Sean H said:


> I thought I would report that I recently picked up an iFi Purifier 3 USB and use it between my BF2 and Macbook Pro. Wow, quite an amazing difference, I'm quite surprised and find this little thing is worth every penny. Improvements across the board with no tradeoffs whatsoever. The sound is noticeably cleaner with more resolution of fine detail and better dynamics. Soundstage has grown quite noticeably in all directions. Bass has firmed up with more texture and most of all much more punch. I could hear an improvement the minute I hooked it up but after a few days of playing music through it's really started to shine and all improvements noted above became very clear especially soundstage size which was almost shocking in how much bigger it is now. If you plan to try one of these make sure to let it run in for some time before making any final judgements. Zero tradeoffs, only improvements.



Good to know, i also own a purifier and look forward to using it with my incoming bifrost 2


----------



## blackdragon87 (Oct 20, 2020)

bifrost 2 just arrived three hours ago. really like it so far and know it will only get better


----------



## SnowRang3r

Bifrost 2 update... it's addicting. The free time I do have I find less of an urge to play video games and more of an urge to listen to music. Which isn't a bad thing.

My parents had a listen while they were over for dinner. All my dad could say was "whoa" as he kept clicking on tracks to play next. My mother probably 2 minutes in said "I need speakers that sound like these headphones". Needless to say we're looking at options...


----------



## tamtrum

Ive been enjoying my bifrost 2 ever since I got it a month ago. Well worth the upgrade over the iFi Zen Dac.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

tamtrum said:


> Ive been enjoying my bifrost 2 ever since I got it a month ago. Well worth the upgrade over the iFi Zen Dac.


HOW did you get a black Val 2????  Did I miss the boat somewhere where they offered black?


----------



## tamtrum

I found the Val2 due to pure luck when I was browsing usaudiomart one day. Schiit might be upgrading it soon so that might be why they’re not restocking black Valhallas.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

tamtrum said:


> I found the Val2 due to pure luck when I was browsing usaudiomart one day. Schiit might be upgrading it soon so that might be why they’re not restocking black Valhallas.


Nice!  Don't get me wrong, I love my silver V2, but the 80's rocker in me loves black stereo gear.


----------



## blackdragon87

im going to get a either a liquid platinum or monoprice 887 soon to use with my new bifrost 2.  which one do you guys think would be a better choice?

im currently leaning towards the lp more at the moment tbh. any adivces appreciated.


----------



## blackdragon87 (Oct 23, 2020)

,


----------



## Baten (Oct 25, 2020)

blackdragon87 said:


> im going to get a either a liquid platinum or monoprice 887 soon to use with my new bifrost 2.  which one do you guys think would be a better choice?
> 
> im currently leaning towards the lp more at the moment tbh. any adivces appreciated.


I like the 887 or Topping A90 to go with a good multibit DAC.


----------



## blackdragon87 (Oct 27, 2020)

Baten said:


> I like the 887 or Topping A90 to to with a good multibit DAC.



thanks,.


----------



## RastaDolphin

Rattle said:


> Any chance you have some impressions on Jot vs Asgard 3 with 650? I've toyed with getting a JOT as my other 2 amps are tube amps and like to have a good SS around.


I can't compare with Asgard but I can say the XLR out on the Bifrost 2 gives a pretty big (to huge) bump in clarity, separation, and life versus the RCA even when using single ended out on the Jotunheim. So I'd vote for the Jot, but again I haven't tried the Asgard at all.


----------



## RastaDolphin

blackdragon87 said:


> im going to get a either a liquid platinum or monoprice 887 soon to use with my new bifrost 2.  which one do you guys think would be a better choice?
> 
> im currently leaning towards the lp more at the moment tbh. any adivces appreciated.


I really didn't care for the 887 at all. It was super fast and clear but had no life ... or physicality. Stage was super tight too. The design didn't appeal to me either. Not a fan of black boxes, especially with screens.


----------



## blackdragon87

would the liquid carbon x from drop be good with this. might pick it up for cheap, the other two main amps i use are the jot and asgard 3 

thx


----------



## Rattle

RastaDolphin said:


> I can't compare with Asgard but I can say the XLR out on the Bifrost 2 gives a pretty big (to huge) bump in clarity, separation, and life versus the RCA even when using single ended out on the Jotunheim. So I'd vote for the Jot, but again I haven't tried the Asgard at all.



Well that may be down to the inputs on the JOT, on liquid platinum using XLR or SE input and balanced XLR to headphone I can't tell the difference.


----------



## JoeDoe

Any BF2 users prefer using a DDC like the Eitr to Unison USB? To these ears, I've found myself preferring the Eitr to the onboard USB board...


----------



## scottshields (Oct 26, 2020)

RastaDolphin said:


> I can't compare with Asgard but I can say the XLR out on the Bifrost 2 gives a pretty big (to huge) bump in clarity, separation, and life versus the RCA even when using single ended out on the Jotunheim. So I'd vote for the Jot, but again I haven't tried the Asgard at all.


While it may be mentioned earlier in this thread I hadn't seen this assertion prior, thanks for sharing you experience on balanced vs. SE output from the BF2.  I'm currently running though a Lyr3 amp but this as me curious on the sonic differences between a Lry3 and Jot considering the balanced experiences descried here.  Does anyone have both (Jot and Lyr3) that could provide some description on the differences they hear with BF2 as a source?


----------



## dermott

Thinking about picking up a Bifrost 2 but want to know if it is better than what I have. I am running a Bluesound Node 2i (Tidal and my redbook CD files via network) > Yulong DA8 Mrk 1 Sabre DAC (DAC mode only) > THX AAA 789 > Audeze LCD2 (pre-fazor) . I was running Jotunheim before the AAA 789, but I think I like the clarity I get from the AAA 789 over the Jotunheim. Will taking out the Yulong and inserting the Bifrost 2 (using the balanced inputs) bring anything noticeable to the table?


----------



## blackdragon87

RastaDolphin said:


> I really didn't care for the 887 at all. It was super fast and clear but had no life ... or physicality. Stage was super tight too. The design didn't appeal to me either. Not a fan of black boxes, especially with screens.



Thx,

I like my amps to have life to them and musical. The Jot is prettty good for that, after thinking im going to pass on the 887 and also the a90 as I dont like a sterile sound.


----------



## cebuboy

JoeDoe said:


> Any BF2 users prefer using a DDC like the Eitr to Unison USB? To these ears, I've found myself preferring the Eitr to the onboard USB board...


I can’t say I prefer the Eitr as that is what I use when connecting it to the old macbook that wont work with unison, but using the iphone as transport and going back and forth using Eitr and Unison, I do find unison to sound somewhat softer.


----------



## cebuboy

scottshields said:


> While it may be mentioned earlier in this thread I hadn't seen this assertion prior, thanks for sharing you experience on balanced vs. SE output from the BF2.  I'm currently running though a Lyr3 amp but this as me curious on the sonic differences between a Lry3 and Jot considering the balanced experiences descried here.  Does anyone have both (Jot and Lyr3) that could provide some description on the differences they hear with BF2 as a source?


I have both, let me start with the Jot, it just shines when fed via xlr, everything seems to sound clearer, and more volume too. With the Lyr, the tube you use also plays a role on the sound. But coming from a modi mb, I do appreciate the improvement the BF2 brought, detail and clarity, and that bass too.


----------



## nicknack40 (Nov 2, 2020)

Just got the Asgard 3 and the Modius. So im within my 15 day testing. Im in the UK and now looking at maybe i should of gone for the Bifrost 2. Anybody got the Modius and Bifrost 2 to do any comparisons if its worth the £500 more thanks


----------



## cgb3 (Nov 3, 2020)

nicknack40 said:


> Just got the Asgard 3 and the Modius. So im within my 15 day testing. Im in the UK and now looking at maybe i should of gone for the Bifrost 2. Anybody got the Modius and Bifrost 2 to do any comparisons if its worth the £500 more thanks


I've been well pleased with my Modius feeding my Asgard 3/Lyr 3.

I too am intrigued with multibit. I'm thinking more Gungnir than Bifrost, but whatever I choose, I'll buy 2nd hand.

Returning my Modius (new from Schiit) here in the States would include a 15% restock fee, and shipping. $30 (restock) + $20 (return shipping/insurance) +the $20 I payed to have Schiit send the unit to me (not refundable). I'd loose 35% returning the Modius.

A higher dollar unit makes sense to return if one isn't happy.

The Modius is a great DAC. It's better after 3 weeks, but a good sound from the beginning. I suggest If you're not happy after break-in, sell locally, and purchase what's next.

Edit:

Schiit will waive the restock fee on a higher level model. You'd only be out initial shipping and return shipping.

I won't change my suggestion to sell locally. I'd give the Modius a full 3 weeks, and longer. Listen to your music. Don't think about upgrades.

If, after 90 days, you're not happy, sell the Modius locally (for little loss), and purchase what you will.


----------



## blackdragon87 (Nov 15, 2020)

,


----------



## blackdragon87 (Nov 15, 2020)

,


----------



## hikaru12

Mkoll said:


> The Bifrost 2 + Liquid Platinum is my current combo as well. Great synergy and my endgame for now. I think I'd have to spend twice as much or more to get any real improvement, and even then you're heavily into the law of diminishing returns at this level.



As someone who's had a Yggy GS with Liquid Platinum - you definingly really get into diminishing returns. I would have had to spend another $800 for the Analog 2 upgrade to get a 10-20% increase in detail and impact.


----------



## Voxata

blackdragon87 said:


> would the liquid carbon x from drop be good with this. might pick it up for cheap, the other two main amps i use are the jot and asgard 3
> 
> thx


I'd recommend the LP, especially at current price.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Our Bifrost 2 review was posted today. Feel free to ask @Mightygrey about it!


----------



## Neweymatt

Ultrainferno said:


> Our Bifrost 2 review was posted today. Feel free to ask @Mightygrey about it!


Great overview of both DACs! Although, this would have been a little more useful to me a few weeks ago before I made my final decision between the 2...  

One thing it did remind me of, and one reason I was keen on the Bifrost, is future upgradability, in both hardware and firmware.  I'm wondering what kinds of updates we can expect for the BF2?  

There were firmware-related issues reported in this thread just after launch, and having the firmware update feature seems like it helped a lot to address these.  What functionality could be changed in future firmware updates?

As far as hardware, Schiit seem to have delivered the goods with Unison USB already.  What new cards could they come up with for upgrades?


----------



## blackdragon87

Voxata said:


> I'd recommend the LP, especially at current price.



yeah, the lp and bifrost 2 is great. its my main dac and amp atm


----------



## Voxata

If you weren't so far away I'd offer to do the cap mod for you


----------



## blackdragon87

Voxata said:


> If you weren't so far away I'd offer to do the cap mod for you



appreciate the offer


----------



## Louisiana (Dec 5, 2020)

New Bifrost User arrived 
I start with a question.
In specifications, Schiit say:  *Input Capability: *up to 24/192 for all inputs.
When i listen from my Raspberry PI4 with Volumio, 24/192 works fine, but when i listen from my Windows PC over optical Cable, with Qobouz App, 24/192 don't work!
I have to reduce it to 24/192, when everything is well.

Somebody here with same problem, or maybe can proof it for me?
On the other side, i'm fine with 24/96, but if BF2 should work with higher input, i except he should do.


----------



## jnak00

Louisiana said:


> New Bifrost User arrived
> I start with a question.
> In specifications, Schiit say:  *Input Capability: *up to 24/192 for all inputs.
> When i listen from my Raspberry PI4 with Volumio, 24/192 works fine, but when i listen from my Windows PC over optical Cable, with Qobouz App, 24/192 don't work!
> ...



I believe optical is spotty at 192. I don't know the actual specs but there is a limit there.


----------



## TheTechQ

jnak00 said:


> I believe optical is spotty at 192. I don't know the actual specs but there is a limit there.


Correct. Try a different cable. There could also be something funny with the timing coming from the PC. Try it with Qobuz as the only open app and see if anything is different.


----------



## Louisiana

TheTechQ said:


> Correct. Try a different cable. There could also be something funny with the timing coming from the PC. Try it with Qobuz as the only open app and see if anything is different.


That's what i did!
The AudioQuest Carbon Toslink cable, for 129€ don't work, the AmazonBasic cable for 10€ works fine!
Unbelievable.


----------



## Ripper2860

Maybe that's Schiit's way of telling you that you should lower your 'Carbon' footprint.


----------



## catscratch

BF2 early impressions: very nice. Mids are the standout, resolving and harmonically saturated, with a bit of warmth. Bass is warm but not the cleanest, and the highs are smooth and lack any real edge or sharpness but are also slightly unrefined. Soundstage is not the biggest but imaging has a nice sense of 3D space to it. Dynamics are solid. Overall seems like a very good dac for the price, clean power and a warm presentation with a focus on the mids, but lacking a bit in stage and refinement next to something more TOTL.

In fact I bought 2 of these. First I got one as a gift, trying to build a rig for my mom (she's happy) and then I just had to get one for my own system, which I've been trying to downscale recently. Definitely recommended.


----------



## Gregg

catscratch said:


> BF2 early impressions: very nice. Mids are the standout, resolving and harmonically saturated, with a bit of warmth. Bass is warm but not the cleanest, and the highs are smooth and lack any real edge or sharpness but are also slightly unrefined. Soundstage is not the biggest but imaging has a nice sense of 3D space to it. Dynamics are solid. Overall seems like a very good dac for the price, clean power and a warm presentation with a focus on the mids, but lacking a bit in stage and refinement next to something more TOTL.
> 
> In fact I bought 2 of these. First I got one as a gift, trying to build a rig for my mom (she's happy) and then I just had to get one for my own system, which I've been trying to downscale recently. Definitely recommended.


Great post!


----------



## DeafAudiophile

Ultrainferno said:


> Our Bifrost 2 review was posted today. Feel free to ask @Mightygrey about it!


"...than the dual AK4499-equipped D90 MQA "
Oddly I am seeing this mistake in multiple different reviews saying the D90 has two AK4499 chips.


----------



## bigjako

This may be a strange place to put it, but here goes.  I got a Modius as a Father's Day gift early on in COVID and it was the first step in my audiophile adventure.  I've loved it, but never really had a point of reference to compare it to.  Fast forward 5 months and I also have a Bifrost 2, and I will just say that there's a clear difference between the two, though there's still a lot of similarities - let's call it the Schiit House Sound.  I'm sticking with the BF2 but I would like to have a second DAC to go between - particularly for electrostatics.  I am pot-committed to the BF2, so I'm not really interested in other R2R-style DACs to replace the Modius. I want something that would give me a nice counterpoint to switch from the BF2.  Topping D90 springs to mind as the most different from the BF2, yet still balanced and 'good'. 

Any suggestions for the upside-down version of the BF2, the Bizarro Bifrost?


----------



## TheTechQ

bigjako said:


> This may be a strange place to put it, but here goes.  I got a Modius as a Father's Day gift early on in COVID and it was the first step in my audiophile adventure.  I've loved it, but never really had a point of reference to compare it to.  Fast forward 5 months and I also have a Bifrost 2, and I will just say that there's a clear difference between the two, though there's still a lot of similarities - let's call it the Schiit House Sound.  I'm sticking with the BF2 but I would like to have a second DAC to go between - particularly for electrostatics.  I am pot-committed to the BF2, so I'm not really interested in other R2R-style DACs to replace the Modius. I want something that would give me a nice counterpoint to switch from the BF2.  Topping D90 springs to mind as the most different from the BF2, yet still balanced and 'good'.
> 
> Any suggestions for the upside-down version of the BF2, the Bizarro Bifrost?


https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir


----------



## bigjako (Dec 23, 2020)

TheTechQ said:


> https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir


Do you really think it's a counterpoint to the BF2, or is it more (and better) of the same?  I intend to keep the BF2 but want something equally great, just different.  Aside from the Khadas Toneboard, every DAC I've ever heard has been a Schiit DAC, and for electrostat usage, I am open to something that sounds natural, but maybe plays up the upper mids and highs, since Stax (and others) represent that so well, without sibilance.


----------



## kumar402

bigjako said:


> Do you really think it's a counterpoint to the BF2, or is it more (and better) of the same?  I intend to keep the BF2 but want something equally great, just different.  Aside from the Khadas Toneboard, every DAC I've ever heard has been a Schiit DAC, and for electrostat usage, I am open to something that sounds natural, but maybe plays up the upper mids and highs, since Stax (and others) represent that so well, without sibilance.


What’s your budget? You can try out Dangerous Music Convert 2 - very dynamic DAC and a good counter to BF2 or Chord Qutest


----------



## TheTechQ

bigjako said:


> Do you really think it's a counterpoint to the BF2, or is it more (and better) of the same?  I intend to keep the BF2 but want something equally great, just different.  Aside from the Khadas Toneboard, every DAC I've ever heard has been a Schiit DAC, and for electrostat usage, I am open to something that sounds natural, but maybe plays up the upper mids and highs, since Stax (and others) represent that so well, without sibilance.


Gungnir is available as both multibit or delta-sigma. I have heard the multibit version at the Schiitr, and it has a bit of a unique sound. People describe it as a bit darker than the Bifrost 2. They both sound good, but have a bit of a different feel. Think of your music in a suit. If you are looking for more emphasis on the highs, the Gungnir may not be for you, but I consider it a worthy listen if you have the chance.


----------



## blackdragon87

wow, these are backordered until jan 15. glad i have mine, love it


----------



## haasaaroni

bigjako said:


> This may be a strange place to put it, but here goes.  I got a Modius as a Father's Day gift early on in COVID and it was the first step in my audiophile adventure.  I've loved it, but never really had a point of reference to compare it to.  Fast forward 5 months and I also have a Bifrost 2, and I will just say that there's a clear difference between the two, though there's still a lot of similarities - let's call it the Schiit House Sound.  I'm sticking with the BF2 but I would like to have a second DAC to go between - particularly for electrostatics.  I am pot-committed to the BF2, so I'm not really interested in other R2R-style DACs to replace the Modius. I want something that would give me a nice counterpoint to switch from the BF2.  Topping D90 springs to mind as the most different from the BF2, yet still balanced and 'good'.
> 
> Any suggestions for the upside-down version of the BF2, the Bizarro Bifrost?


I only have personal experience with the BF2, as you know, but if you haven't already seen it, this video seems really helpful when talking about some of the most popular dacs in this price category: 

If you're looking for a more analytical option, you might be right about the D90. Seems like it just has the upper hand in detail.


----------



## CinciJeff

I'm a long-time music lover and headphone listener, but since I've been stuck working from home I've started down the slippery slope of TOTL gear. When I purchased a pair of ZMF Verite Open headphones about a month ago I was using an Asgard 3 w/Multibit for its DAC and a Drop AAA 789 as my amp. I also had a Bottlehead Crack + Speedball but I wanted to dig into the '789 first so I set it aside. The sound was incredible, but forum "enablers" convinced me that an upgraded DAC was in order, so I bought a Bifrost2. I've been listening to it for a few weeks and while I don't have the ears (or vocabulary) of a reviewer, I can say that the Bifrost 2 + THX789 seemed to have an even "cleaner" sound than the Asgard, but overall the change was subtle.

So today I decided to switch to the Crack and two things jumped out at me right away. First, I had to turn my amp volume WAY down from where I had it set with the Asgard. _Can anyone explain why this is so?_ I don't have any concerns, I'm just interested from a technical standpoint. The second change I noticed (after getting the volume set properly!) was the additional depth and clarity I heard - especially in the midtones. The vocals seem to float in front of the instruments - they seem more separated than before. It's really a fantastic combination, at least for the music I listen to (mostly alt & prog rock, folk, bluegrass, and some pop).

Again, I really don't have the chops to adequately describe what I'm hearing but I really love the combination of the BF2 and the BH Crack with these 'phones. My next move is some tube rolling with the Crack, and I'm considering trying out a Liquid Platinum to see what a hybrid sounds like. I'm not quite to my "endgame" system yet (yeah, I know it's just a ghost that everyone chases) but I have a hard time imagining using any DAC beside the BF2 going forward. Count me in as a Schiit fan!


----------



## tafens

CinciJeff said:


> So today I decided to switch to the Crack and two things jumped out at me right away. First, I had to turn my amp volume WAY down from where I had it set with the Asgard. _Can anyone explain why this is so?_ I don't have any concerns, I'm just interested from a technical standpoint.



The gain may be different on the Asgard, THX, and Crack respectively, and their high/low gain switches (those that have ‘em) may be in different positions.

However, I also noticed a boost in volume going from the internal multibit card in Lyr3 to the Bifrost2. This is due to Bifrost2 outputting 2V RMS, while the card (I think) outputs only 1.5V RMS into the amp.


----------



## Voxata (Dec 30, 2020)

bigjako said:


> Do you really think it's a counterpoint to the BF2, or is it more (and better) of the same?  I intend to keep the BF2 but want something equally great, just different.  Aside from the Khadas Toneboard, every DAC I've ever heard has been a Schiit DAC, and for electrostat usage, I am open to something that sounds natural, but maybe plays up the upper mids and highs, since Stax (and others) represent that so well, without sibilance.



Gungnir (at least my version) has more detail/focus down low and the Bifrost 2 has a more linear focus so in comparison has more energy and detail up top. Compared to D90 the Bifrost 2 was a good amount more realistic but not as fast. It was also more engaging. However, aside from these differences they were more similar than not to me. Gungnir has a more.. classic thicker sound to it. Still really good, in some brighter systems I'd argue even better than Bifrost 2. In some areas it is more capable than Bifrost 2, and vice versa. It was interesting comparing the two in my system. I have a brighter setup so, Gungnir seemed the better fit. Still do miss some of the things Bifrost 2 did well though.


----------



## shafat777

I recently watched a stream created by i believe @MRphotography (sorry if its not you bro) about the Pendant vs Elise and he talks about how the D90 holds back the Elise when it comes to soundstage and tubey goodness and he actually recommended a Bifrost 2 instead of the D90. Can someone plz help shed some light between the two dacs. I ve been running my D90 for about 7 months now and so far ive been really happy. However I do know that my Elise doesn't sound as tubey as some claim it to be despite using same tubes. I would like to know what kind of sound signature can i expect from the BF2 as opposed to the D90. 

Thanks for your time.


----------



## supersonic395

I see these are back ordered until the 15th but does anyone know if this date might be pushed back? 

I've just ordered one so hopefully it is shipped this month but has there been a recent trend of the Bifrost 2 selling out resulting in (long?) back order waiting times? 

Frustratingly the Lyr 3 230V part is also out of stock 🙈


----------



## kkrazik2008

supersonic395 said:


> I see these are back ordered until the 15th but does anyone know if this date might be pushed back?
> 
> I've just ordered one so hopefully it is shipped this month but has there been a recent trend of the Bifrost 2 selling out resulting in (long?) back order waiting times?
> 
> Frustratingly the Lyr 3 230V part is also out of stock 🙈



I was able to pick one up about 3 weeks ago, they showed as in stock for the last few months. They probably hit a holiday spike with orders, and/or holiday between Christmas/NYE break. The 15th is not too far off, you have waited this long, what’s another 10 days?


----------



## supersonic395

Yup not long to go now, I was just curious if there's a possibility of the date being pushed further back but hopefully it will ship by 15th 🤞😁


----------



## Tralfaz

You people are horrible enablers - I just ordered one!


----------



## schneller

Has anyone pitted BF2 versus Yiggy A2 and picked the former for single-ended? I so want the YA2 but so don't want to spend $2500.


----------



## kumar402

schneller said:


> Has anyone pitted BF2 versus Yiggy A2 and picked the former for single-ended? I so want the YA2 but so don't want to spend $2500.


For headphone use and for using single ended you can pick BF2. However Yaggy really shines in speaker setup and balanced config.


----------



## AudioDuck

kumar402 said:


> For headphone use and for using single ended you can pick BF2. However Yaggy really shines in speaker setup and balanced config.


...or you could take the middle ground and get a Gumby! 😝 There are many happy owners, me included- I use one of the SE outs for my integrated/speakers and the balanced out for my headphone amp (the integrated doesn’t have balanced inputs). Good luck- lots of good Schiit to pick from.


----------



## schneller

kumar402 said:


> For headphone use and for using single ended you can pick BF2. However Yaggy really shines in speaker setup and balanced config.



For me it is speakers + single-ended haha.


----------



## Tralfaz

I just received word that my Bifrost 2 shipped today, hopefully that means that others will be hearing something soon.


----------



## supersonic395

Tralfaz said:


> I just received word that my Bifrost 2 shipped today, hopefully that means that others will be hearing something soon.



Oh niiiice 😁 

Whereabouts are you based, I wonder if I will receive the dispatch today too or in next few days 😁


----------



## Tralfaz

supersonic395 said:


> Oh niiiice 😁
> 
> Whereabouts are you based, I wonder if I will receive the dispatch today too or in next few days 😁



I'm in Philadelphia - I hope you hear soon!


----------



## supersonic395

Tralfaz said:


> I'm in Philadelphia - I hope you hear soon!



I'm in the UK so maybe the 230V ones will ship bit later 😅


----------



## sennfan83261 (Jan 9, 2021)

Tralfaz said:


> I just received word that my Bifrost 2 shipped today, hopefully that means that others will be hearing something soon.


I ordered mine on last Sunday despite the 1/15 backorder notice and received a shipping notice today. I live down I-5 from Newhall, CA.

UPDATE (1/8/21): And... USPS misdelivered my Bifrost 2 to the wrong house, wonderful. Someone else other than me signed off on the package. I think it could be one of the random hands working on my neighbor's property two miles away who signed off on it. C'mon USPS, I'm living in the countryside, it isn't that hard!

UPDATE 2 (1/9/21): That neighbor got back to me around noon today (his address is 1000 numbers off mine) and I picked it up. The package remained unopened. I'm still going to make a complaint against USPS for the signature fiasco (my address was scrawled on the signature block).


----------



## Arcayne

shafat777 said:


> I recently watched a stream created by i believe @MRphotography (sorry if its not you bro) about the Pendant vs Elise and he talks about how the D90 holds back the Elise when it comes to soundstage and tubey goodness and he actually recommended a Bifrost 2 instead of the D90. Can someone plz help shed some light between the two dacs. I ve been running my D90 for about 7 months now and so far ive been really happy. However I do know that my Elise doesn't sound as tubey as some claim it to be despite using same tubes. I would like to know what kind of sound signature can i expect from the BF2 as opposed to the D90.
> 
> Thanks for your time.


I found the same thing to happen with the Euforia. I have tried a few DACs with it, and the AKM and ESS based DACs seemed to compress the soundstage in comparison to the Bifrost 2. The BF2 does a rather significantly better job at 3-dimensionality, microdynamics and realism in the soundstage presentation. The Euforia (and probably the Elise as well) enhances/enriches what the DAC feeds into it, so the difference between the staging and dynamic behavior of the DACs is even more apparent through the Euforia than through solid-state amps.


----------



## Louisiana

Arcayne said:


> I found the same thing to happen with the Euforia.


Good to know!
The Euforia is at the top of my wish list


----------



## scottshields (Jan 9, 2021)

Arcayne said:


> I found the same thing to happen with the Euforia. I have tried a few DACs with it, and the AKM and ESS based DACs seemed to compress the soundstage in comparison to the Bifrost 2. The BF2 does a rather significantly better job at 3-dimensionality, microdynamics and realism in the soundstage presentation. The Euforia (and probably the Elise as well) enhances/enriches what the DAC feeds into it, so the difference between the staging and dynamic behavior of the DACs is even more apparent through the Euforia than through solid-state amps.



+1 here.  I have the Bifrost2 feeding both an A90 and a Euforia.  The A90 via balanced outs as well but the Euforia presents a more holographic sound stage and just sounds noticeably better.  The A90 is no slouch but it's certainly no Euforia.  The Bifrost2 + Euforia is a winner.


----------



## theveterans

Arcayne said:


> I found the same thing to happen with the Euforia. I have tried a few DACs with it, and the AKM and ESS based DACs seemed to compress the soundstage in comparison to the Bifrost 2. The BF2 does a rather significantly better job at 3-dimensionality, microdynamics and realism in the soundstage presentation. The Euforia (and probably the Elise as well) enhances/enriches what the DAC feeds into it, so the difference between the staging and dynamic behavior of the DACs is even more apparent through the Euforia than through solid-state amps.



Cookie cutter DS DAC designs do sound like compressed wall. The well implemented AKM DS-DAC one's that cost at around 4x or more than Bifrost 2 do have that depth, holographic presentation present on Schiit MB DACs but yeah they cost way more. Best one I've heard is the Linn Klimax DSM (AKM 4497), but then again Linn had to custom implement the whole design just to make DS DAC sound correct


----------



## supersonic395

Was wondering if anyone else received any shipping notification for the Bifrost 2 in last few days? 

Hopefully the orders start shipping towards end of this week/early next week 😁🤞


----------



## Shane D

supersonic395 said:


> Was wondering if anyone else received any shipping notification for the Bifrost 2 in last few days?
> 
> Hopefully the orders start shipping towards end of this week/early next week 😁🤞



Website says the 15th. I am hopeful.


----------



## supersonic395

Bifrost 2 just shipped 😆😁 

Can't wait to get my hands on this thick black DAC


----------



## tafens

supersonic395 said:


> Bifrost 2 just shipped 😆😁
> 
> Can't wait to get my hands on this thick black DAC



It’ll be worth the wait. Even though we all hear differently the Bifrost2 is such a big step up from the lower tier DACs (in my ears at least) that I’m certain of it


----------



## supersonic395

tafens said:


> It’ll be worth the wait. Even though we all hear differently the Bifrost2 is such a big step up from the lower tier DACs (in my ears at least) that I’m certain of it



Well I will need to use a very modest amp as the Lyr 3 isn't ready with 230V part yet so it might be a while until I can hear it in all its heavenly glory 😁


----------



## tafens

supersonic395 said:


> Well I will need to use a very modest amp as the Lyr 3 isn't ready with 230V part yet so it might be a while until I can hear it in all its heavenly glory 😁



I have the Lyr3 + Bifrost2 combo and it has some serious magic. Compared to with the Bifrost2, the Lyr3 was held back by the internal multibit (which in and of itself is a great DAC too, for sure) as it opened up beautifully with the Bifrost2.

I also have the Vali2+ and out of curiosity I tested it on the Bifrost2 too (compared to with the Modi Multibit) and although there was an improvement it wasn’t nearly as big as with the Lyr3.

So it seems you have two things well worth waiting for


----------



## supersonic395

tafens said:


> I have the Lyr3 + Bifrost2 combo and it has some serious magic. Compared to with the Bifrost2, the Lyr3 was held back by the internal multibit (which in and of itself is a great DAC too, for sure) as it opened up beautifully with the Bifrost2.
> 
> I also have the Vali2+ and out of curiosity I tested it on the Bifrost2 too (compared to with the Modi Multibit) and although there was an improvement it wasn’t nearly as big as with the Lyr3.
> 
> So it seems you have two things well worth waiting for



Definitely, cannot wait to get the Lyr 3 but I'm also curious about that Valhalla 2 😆


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I’m going insane, I can’t decided between the Bifrost 2 and an Ares II. Send help


----------



## Shane D

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I’m going insane, I can’t decided between the Bifrost 2 and an Ares II. Send help



Warranty and user upgradability did it for me.


----------



## Louisiana

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I’m going insane, I can’t decided between the Bifrost 2 and an Ares II. Send help



Order both of them, and compare?


----------



## Neweymatt

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I’m going insane, I can’t decided between the Bifrost 2 and an Ares II. Send help


MidFi Guy did a pretty good comparison roundup of Bifrost2 vs Ares II vs Topping D90, RME ADI-2, a couple Chords and maybe some others I'm forgetting.

I think this was just after I got my BF2, and confirmed for me that I'd made a solid blind-buy choice.   Schiit's return policy,  5-year warranty, along with future upgradability of the BF2 were all other factors that swayed me.  Second-hand market is also strong for these, esp here in Australia, so I didn't think I could go too far wrong.


----------



## SnowRang3r

Shane D said:


> Warranty and user upgradability did it for me.



That was it for me too. I was worried about making the wrong choice but with 5 year warranty, hardware and firmware upgrades possible it was clearly the best choice.



Neweymatt said:


> MidFi Guy did a pretty good comparison roundup of Bifrost2 vs Ares II vs Topping D90, RME ADI-2, a couple Chords and maybe some others I'm forgetting.
> 
> I think this was just after I got my BF2, and confirmed for me that I'd made a solid blind-buy choice.   Schiit's return policy,  5-year warranty, along with future upgradability of the BF2 were all other factors that swayed me.  Second-hand market is also strong for these, esp here in Australia, so I didn't think I could go too far wrong.


Passion for Sound also compared Bifrost2 to Ares II and D90 in his review:


----------



## Tralfaz

My Bifrost 2 has arrived!  I plugged it in this morning and it's just getting settled in to its new home.  Early impressions are _very_ positive though I think I miss the searchlight-bright LED from my Bifrost Multibit...maybe they'll fix this in a future firmware update 

Seriously, this is a terrific DAC that I'm liking a lot, it's a great companion to my Lyr 3.


----------



## Midnight12

supersonic395 said:


> Bifrost 2 just shipped 😆😁
> 
> Can't wait to get my hands on this thick black DAC


Hey, when did you order yours?


----------



## supersonic395

Midnight12 said:


> Hey, when did you order yours?



4th Jan! (Black finish, 230 V)


----------



## Shane D

supersonic395 said:


> 4th Jan! (Black finish, 230 V)



That's not bad at all. I ordered mine last Saturday. The website said the 15th, but I will be happy if it ships Tuesday or Wednesday.


----------



## Rensek (Jan 16, 2021)

I hope the lot of you enjoy the Bifrost 2 as much as I do. Ive had mine since late Dec 2019. Use it many hours a day. Lovin every minute of it... Need a 2nd one.


----------



## supersonic395

FedEx got my Bifrost 2 at the London depot - I'm hoping they deliver on Sunday otherwise gonna have to wait until Monday 😅


----------



## Midnight12

Shane D said:


> That's not bad at all. I ordered mine last Saturday. The website said the 15th, but I will be happy if it ships Tuesday or Wednesday.





supersonic395 said:


> 4th Jan! (Black finish, 230 V)


bought mine on the 6th. Nothing so far


----------



## supersonic395

Does the Bifrost 2 output simultaneously from the Balanced output and the RCA outputs? (Without any degradation of sound quality?


----------



## adamos (Jan 16, 2021)

supersonic395 said:


> Does the Bifrost 2 output simultaneously from the Balanced output and the RCA outputs? (Without any degradation of sound quality?



Yes, there is simultaneous output and at least based on what I’ve read here and my own experiences with it there isn’t a degradation of sound quality.


----------



## supersonic395

adamos said:


> Yes, there is simultaneous output and based on what I’ve read and my own experiences with it there isn’t a degradation of sound quality.



This is excellent news!!


----------



## Shane D

supersonic395 said:


> Does the Bifrost 2 output simultaneously from the Balanced output and the RCA outputs? (Without any degradation of sound quality?



Purists will say no. I split the signal in current DAC up to four times and it sounds fine to me. But a Purist will say you can't even use SE and XLR at the same time.


----------



## supersonic395 (Jan 16, 2021)

Shane D said:


> Purists will say no. I split the signal in current DAC up to four times and it sounds fine to me. But a Purist will say you can't even use SE and XLR at the same time.



I think the purist you refer to is what I'd refer to as an a______ 

😅

I will try the set up I mentioned earlier in the thread but the Jot 2 will probably reach me by end of month depending on Schiit's backlog and the Lyr 3 is unknown as there's no ETA on the 230 V part yet


----------



## shafat777

Is there any sound quality degradation if both the rca and xlr output is used simutaneously?


----------



## nickv

Currently weighing up a purchase of the BF2 to replace my Modi 3. It will sit between an Allo Digione and a Hegel H360 powering a set of Maggie LRS'. I prefer the Modi 3 to the internal dac on the Hegel! It has more acoustic mass to my ears, more heft! I'm hopeful that the step up between the Modi3 and the BF2 will take my system up another level. I've never heard a multibit dac but was so impressed with the Modi that my gut feel is to stick with Schiit. 

One slight downside is that I'm in the UK and the local distro is estimating not much stock of anything until the late spring so it will be a purchase from schiit.com.


----------



## caLeonard

Have any of you ever experienced any buzz or hum coming from the Bifrost 2 when turned on? I use the Unison input with my MacBook air. It's already audible (but very mild) when the bifrost isn't connected to anything but gets even worse once the USB connection is established...


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

caLeonard said:


> Have any of you ever experienced any buzz or hum coming from the Bifrost 2 when turned on? I use the Unison input with my MacBook air. It's already audible (but very mild) when the bifrost isn't connected to anything but gets even worse once the USB connection is established...



Do you hear the buzz only through headphones or from the unit itself? Either way I don’t think it is normal. My Bifrost 2 is dead quiet.


----------



## caLeonard

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> Do you hear the buzz only through headphones or from the unit itself? Either way I don’t think it is normal. My Bifrost 2 is dead quiet.



It's definitely from the unit.


----------



## kkrazik2008

caLeonard said:


> It's definitely from the unit.



Have you done some basic troubleshooting, like change USB cable or port being used? I had an issue one time where a Thunderbolt 3 monitor added a weird noise when it was connected to the Mac. Also, Schiit indicates to not use a USB cable longer than 2M so consider that too.


----------



## caLeonard (Jan 17, 2021)

kkrazik2008 said:


> Have you done some basic troubleshooting, like change USB cable or port being used? I had an issue one time where a Thunderbolt 3 monitor added a weird noise when it was connected to the Mac. Also, Schiit indicates to not use a USB cable longer than 2M so consider that too.



Thanks for your suggestions. I've tried a different port, no change. The cable I use is exactly 2m. It's a really cheap one though. I've already ordered one that's double shielded and only 1m in length. Maybe an ipurifier / idefender is worth considering, too. But if it comes from the transformer, these things won't do anything.


----------



## tafens

caLeonard said:


> Have any of you ever experienced any buzz or hum coming from the Bifrost 2 when turned on? I use the Unison input with my MacBook air. It's already audible (but very mild) when the bifrost isn't connected to anything but gets even worse once the USB connection is established...



If it comes from the unit itself it is likely transformer hum, caused by the ac transformer vibrating at the power line frequency. A little bit is normal, as in you can hear it faintly when holding your ear very close to the unit. It shouldn’t really be much louder than that, but it can happen sometimes.

On the plus side, it doesn’t affect the functionality of the unit, but it can be quite annoying if loud enough.

I’d say contact Schiit about it and let them sort it out for you.


----------



## caLeonard

tafens said:


> If it comes from the unit itself it is likely transformer hum, caused by the ac transformer vibrating at the power line frequency. A little bit is normal, as in you can hear it faintly when holding your ear very close to the unit. It shouldn’t really be much louder than that, but it can happen sometimes.
> 
> On the plus side, it doesn’t affect the functionality of the unit, but it can be quite annoying if loud enough.
> 
> I’d say contact Schiit about it and let them sort it out for you.



Thanks for your insights. The weird thing is that I only start to really notice the hum/vibration once the USB input is active... When the device is on but idle, it's completely fine. Is that because the unit draws more power once it's fed data?


----------



## ksb643

caLeonard said:


> Thanks for your insights. The weird thing is that I only start to really notice the hum/vibration once the USB input is active... When the device is on but idle, it's completely fine. Is that because the unit draws more power once it's fed data?


Just a thought... if your MacBook is plugged in and charging, try unplugging it and see if it goes away.


----------



## shafat777 (Jan 18, 2021)

Just ordered myself a Bifrost 2 to go along with my Ares 2. NOt being able to use two amps (rca + xlr) with the ares 2 is a huge inconvenience for me since i like to runs two amps simultaneously. My D90 did this with flying colors in addition to being able to select which output or both. I am thinking about running the Ares 2 and Elise combo while use the more curate and detailed Bifrost 2 with my GSX-mini via xlr and Cap modded Liquid platinum via rca.

Waht do you guys think?


----------



## supersonic395

Bifrost 2 has arrived so early at 8.20am!! Just unboxed it and man is it weighty!! (I'm reminded of Jurassic Park's dialogue of "If it's heavy, it means it's expensive, put it back kid!!" 😁🤣 

Unboxed it now and letting it acclimatise to the room temperature before plugging it in. 

Going to have to ashamedly admit that I'll be initially pairing this with an amp that I had to get as an "emergency" while waiting on my Jot 2 to ship. The amp shall go unnamed.


----------



## tafens

caLeonard said:


> Thanks for your insights. The weird thing is that I only start to really notice the hum/vibration once the USB input is active... When the device is on but idle, it's completely fine. Is that because the unit draws more power once it's fed data?



Yes I think so. I have checked and confirmed with my Bifrost2 that the hum gets louder when USB is connected compared to when it is not.
On my unit the hum is so faint though, that I had to bring my ear within an inch of the front panel (the side where the logo and text is printed) to hear it at all and even closer to verify that the hum actually gets a bit louder when I plug in USB to the computer.


----------



## supersonic395

Even without being fully warmed up yet (& meager amp), the Bifrost 2 is really sounding immense 🤩 (also no hum or anything from my unit).


----------



## supersonic395

Whilst it sounds amazing, how long on average do people let the B2 run at first to get to it's optimal sonic quality? 

I can wait to plug the Jot 2 into it


----------



## Arcayne

supersonic395 said:


> Whilst it sounds amazing, how long on average do people let the B2 run at first to get to it's optimal sonic quality?
> 
> I can wait to plug the Jot 2 into it


B2 doesn't need any warmup time. You're good to go.


----------



## Shane D

Just got notice that my BF2 is shipping today. I am all excited. I am waiting until it gets here to do detailed listening sessions with all my headphones.
Pretty pumped!


----------



## nasty nate

Since Bifrost is Multi-bit - some mechanical engineers smarter than I have suggested it takes a few hours to reach a stable temperature...

I have noticed after a few power-outages near my home that the Bifrost can sound _thin _when first turned on once it has been turned off - this goes away after a few hours. This may also be a perceived effect, and not even exist; I haven't done sufficient testing. YMMV - I personally never turn the thing off


----------



## shafat777

Shane D said:


> Just got notice that my BF2 is shipping today. I am all excited. I am waiting until it gets here to do detailed listening sessions with all my headphones.
> Pretty pumped!


I orderyrd mine this past weekend so hopefully I receive the shipping notification soon


----------



## Shane D

shafat777 said:


> I orderyrd mine this past weekend so hopefully I receive the shipping notification soon



Hopefully!

When I checked the website out yesterday, it said "in-stock", but not shipping for 7-10 days?

Just happy mine is moving. Now, getting it to Canada can take a while.


----------



## Midnight12

Shane D said:


> Just got notice that my BF2 is shipping today. I am all excited. I am waiting until it gets here to do detailed listening sessions with all my headphones.
> Pretty pumped!


hey When did you order yours? I ordered mine on the 6th along with a Jotunhiem 2. After a status check email, I was told that it would be shipped 7 to 10 days from today.


----------



## Shane D

Midnight12 said:


> hey When did you order yours? I ordered mine on the 6th along with a Jotunhiem 2. After a status check email, I was told that it would be shipped 7 to 10 days from today.



I ordered my BF2 Jan.9th. Maybe your amp slowed the order?


----------



## Midnight12

It wasnt backordered or anything based on the website. It seems like Schiit don't hold onto inventory for you if you buy multiple things all in one order. Sigh


----------



## supersonic395

Midnight12 said:


> It wasnt backordered or anything based on the website. It seems like Schiit don't hold onto inventory for you if you buy multiple things all in one order. Sigh



I believe if you order stuff together they will wait to ship the entire order in one go. 

I've ordered an Asgard 3 & Jot 2 separately (paid shipping for both as well) so I'm guessing these will shipped separately.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Shane D said:


> I am waiting until it gets here to do detailed listening sessions



It’s hard to do a detailed listening session BEFORE it gets there!!


----------



## Shane D

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> It’s hard to do a detailed listening session BEFORE it gets there!!



Well I spend every day doing Long listening sessions! 

But before I start cutting back the headphone collection, I want to hear what the big, fancy DAC does for them.


----------



## Neweymatt

nasty nate said:


> Since Bifrost is Multi-bit - some mechanical engineers smarter than I have suggested it takes a few hours to reach a stable temperature...
> 
> I have noticed after a few power-outages near my home that the Bifrost can sound _thin _when first turned on once it has been turned off - this goes away after a few hours. This may also be a perceived effect, and not even exist; I haven't done sufficient testing. YMMV - I personally never turn the thing off



Agree, I do notice that BF2 definitely is a bit thin and grainy the first few minutes after I turn it on, although I wouldn't say it takes hours to warm up.  I try to turn mine on about 5-10 minutes before I want to use it, and then turn it off if I'm going to leave it for a few hours. Something about leaving it on 24x7 kind of bugs me, but we all have our own nervosa to deal with.


----------



## Arcayne

nasty nate said:


> Since Bifrost is Multi-bit - some mechanical engineers smarter than I have suggested it takes a few hours to reach a stable temperature...
> 
> I have noticed after a few power-outages near my home that the Bifrost can sound _thin _when first turned on once it has been turned off - this goes away after a few hours. This may also be a perceived effect, and not even exist; I haven't done sufficient testing. YMMV - I personally never turn the thing off


Schiit themselves have stated that this is no longer the case with the Bifrost 2, whereas this used to be the case with the older Multibit DACs from Schiit like the Gumby, Yggy, Bimby etc.


----------



## tafens

Listening with the Bifrost2 through Lyr3 and HD6XX headphones. I have had this setup for over a year now, truly amazing. It still wows me to this day and makes me think “this sounds soooo good” when listening to music, both new and old.
Toe-tapping goodness!


----------



## Tralfaz

Now that I've used the Bifrost 2 for a while I can say that it takes everything I loved about the Bifrost Multibit and improves on it: it's quiet, detailed, dynamic, rhythmic, and tonally "right" to my ears.

Since it's part of my desktop system it gets used at least 10 hours a day (I'm working from home), listening to music (mostly) as well as the occasional TV broadcast on my iMac (Grand Sumo highlights, anyone?) and Zoom meetings (which sound fantastic).  Whether I'm listening through headphones or using my speakers, the Bifrost 2 is a winner.

I think the biggest compliment I can offer the Bifrost 2/Lyr 3 combo is that I have stopped scanning eBay and the classifieds for other gear (I'm always looking for the next component upgrade) because the system I have is so enjoyable.  It's amazing that I now have a desktop system that gives me so much pleasure and allows me to listen and enjoy my music collection in such a compelling way.


----------



## caLeonard

tafens said:


> Yes I think so. I have checked and confirmed with my Bifrost2 that the hum gets louder when USB is connected compared to when it is not.
> On my unit the hum is so faint though, that I had to bring my ear within an inch of the front panel (the side where the logo and text is printed) to hear it at all and even closer to verify that the hum actually gets a bit louder when I plug in USB to the computer.



Okay, so I realized I can't stack Lyr 3 on top of Bifrost 2, because it acts as a resonating body for the hum. Once both units are side by side, it's a lot better! Maybe I should get a DC blocker, though I don't know for certain if the (transformer) hum is created by a DC offset in the power line (just a theory). Sending the BF 2 to the States for repair would be a costly and lengthy process (I live in Germany) since my unit is second-hand (although purchased by the original owner last July)...sigh.


----------



## tafens

caLeonard said:


> Okay, so I realized I can't stack Lyr 3 on top of Bifrost 2, because it acts as a resonating body for the hum. Once both units are side by side, it's a lot better! Maybe I should get a DC blocker, though I don't know for certain if the (transformer) hum is created by a DC offset in the power line (just a theory). Sending the BF 2 to the States for repair would be a costly and lengthy process (I live in Germany) since my unit is second-hand (although purchased by the original owner last July)...sigh.



I have the Lyr3 on top of the Bifrost2 without issue. I do have extra rubber feet between them though, to get some extra airflow, but hum-wise it was fine when I had them stacked with only the built-in feet too (at least, I didn’t notice any).

DC offset on the power line sounds like a plausible explanation. Perhaps you could try to plug it into another outlet in the house that is on another circuit to see if the hum gets lower.


----------



## Smoothstereo

caLeonard said:


> Okay, so I realized I can't stack Lyr 3 on top of Bifrost 2, because it acts as a resonating body for the hum. Once both units are side by side, it's a lot better! Maybe I should get a DC blocker, though I don't know for certain if the (transformer) hum is created by a DC offset in the power line (just a theory). Sending the BF 2 to the States for repair would be a costly and lengthy process (I live in Germany) since my unit is second-hand (although purchased by the original owner last July)...sigh.


I had a hum on my power amp in the past, and once I plugged the amp into a PS Audio Humbuster 3, it eliminated my hum noise from the amp. Not sure if PS Audio still sells this product or not, but worth looking in to or some similar product.


----------



## Rensek

caLeonard said:


> Okay, so I realized I can't stack Lyr 3 on top of Bifrost 2, because it acts as a resonating body for the hum. Once both units are side by side, it's a lot better! Maybe I should get a DC blocker, though I don't know for certain if the (transformer) hum is created by a DC offset in the power line (just a theory). Sending the BF 2 to the States for repair would be a costly and lengthy process (I live in Germany) since my unit is second-hand (although purchased by the original owner last July)...sigh.



So the hum is USB only? 
And the hum is a physical hum?
Does the humm get transferred through the speakers or HPs?

If you havent already, I would for sure email Schiit, perhaps they have some ideas that you can try to resolve the problem yourself.


----------



## caLeonard

Rensek said:


> So the hum is USB only?
> And the hum is a physical hum?
> Does the humm get transferred through the speakers or HPs?
> 
> If you havent already, I would for sure email Schiit, perhaps they have some ideas that you can try to resolve the problem yourself.



No, it's not USB only. It's already audible once turned on but gets worse (stronger, deeper vibrations) when the USB input is active. It's also not crazy loud but loud enough to bug me (especially with Lyr 3 on top!). I am able to record the noise with my phone. It's a physical hum that's not transferred to my HPs. Changing the power outlet didn't help. I already emailed Schiit. They offered out of warranty service only and said that they would have to look at the transformer inside. Shipping costs plus repair would cost me about 190 bucks.. Kind of frustrating for a device that's only 6 months old. Learned my lesson on buying used Schiit the hard way I guess.. I'm gonna try anti vibration spikes between Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 next week. Maybe they can help with the stacking.


----------



## Rensek

caLeonard said:


> No, it's not USB only. It's already audible once turned on but gets worse (stronger, deeper vibrations) when the USB input is active. It's also not crazy loud but loud enough to bug me (especially with Lyr 3 on top!). I am able to record the noise with my phone. It's a physical hum that's not transferred to my HPs. Changing the power outlet didn't help. I already emailed Schiit. They offered out of warranty service only and said that they would have to look at the transformer inside. Shipping costs plus repair would cost me about 190 bucks.. Kind of frustrating for a device that's only 6 months old. Learned my lesson on buying used Schiit the hard way I guess.. I'm gonna try anti vibration spikes between Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 next week. Maybe they can help with the stacking.



Aye, yeah thats rough.

Isn't there a place in the UK and mainland Europe that services Schiit stuff? I dont know your hands on experience with electronics, but if it was me id play around with it and see if I could fix it myself.

Maybe take out the unison USB card and reseat it. Take the top cover off & make sure all the screws are tightened properly, that kind of thing.

I havent opened my bifrost 2, but ive tore apart my OG bifrost a couple of times. Once for cleaning, once to install the 4490 card. The Bifrost 2 is supposed to be easier to get into then the OG bifrost chassis.


----------



## caLeonard (Jan 22, 2021)

Rensek said:


> Aye, yeah thats rough.
> 
> Isn't there a place in the UK and mainland Europe that services Schiit stuff? I dont know your hands on experience with electronics, but if it was me id play around with it and see if I could fix it myself.
> 
> ...



Schiit-europe.com doesn't do repairs for equipment bought from Schiit USA. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with opening/fixing electronic devices. I attached a photo that shows where I suspect the noise is coming from.


----------



## caLeonard

caLeonard said:


> No, it's not USB only. It's already audible once turned on but gets worse (stronger, deeper vibrations) when the USB input is active. It's also not crazy loud but loud enough to bug me (especially with Lyr 3 on top!). I am able to record the noise with my phone. It's a physical hum that's not transferred to my HPs. Changing the power outlet didn't help. I already emailed Schiit. They offered out of warranty service only and said that they would have to look at the transformer inside. Shipping costs plus repair would cost me about 190 bucks.. Kind of frustrating for a device that's only 6 months old. Learned my lesson on buying used Schiit the hard way I guess.. I'm gonna try anti vibration spikes between Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2 next week. Maybe they can help with the stacking.



Ok, so I know that this looks ridiculous BUT these anti vibration spikes actually did the trick. So, if anyone else out there has problems with stacking Lyr 3 and Bifrost 2, I can't recommend these enough. They cost me 10€. Relieved and happy. Now back to enjoying the music


----------



## wailord

can anyone give me some amp recs that pair well with the bifrost and are also good with iems
thanks


----------



## supersonic395

wailord said:


> can anyone give me some amp recs that pair well with the bifrost and are also good with iems
> thanks



Asgard 3 will do it - I'm using it at the moment with a Bifrost 2 - sounds awesome


----------



## nasty nate

wailord said:


> can anyone give me some amp recs that pair well with the bifrost and are also good with iems
> thanks



I use the Lyr 3 and the sound is amazing


----------



## Tralfaz

nasty nate said:


> I use the Lyr 3 and the sound is amazing



This is my setup as well and I love it.


----------



## Neweymatt

supersonic395 said:


> Asgard 3 will do it - I'm using it at the moment with a Bifrost 2 - sounds awesome


Totally agree, Asgard3 is a great pairing with BF2, and at 200 bucks it’s almost a no brainer.  If you want a future upgrade, you can get good resale value on A3, or add a DAC module to it and use it somewhere else..


----------



## Shane D

I got my BF2 today, but it was a no-go. They are going to replace it. A little frustrating, but Schiit happens.


----------



## shafat777

Shane D said:


> I got my BF2 today, but it was a no-go. They are going to replace it. A little frustrating, but Schiit happens.


Oh no what happened? I m supposed to take delivery of mine on Wednesday and hopefully it works out well.


----------



## Shane D

shafat777 said:


> Oh no what happened? I m supposed to take delivery of mine on Wednesday and hopefully it works out well.


It seems to power up and work, but does not pass sound. I tried it on my computer also and Windows recognized it and even re-named the output Speakers (Schiit Bifrost 2 unison USB), but no sound escapes. So I guess it will be another few weeks waiting. I would love to know what happened.


----------



## nasty nate

Tralfaz said:


> This is my setup as well and I love it.



What tube you using?


----------



## supersonic395

Shane D said:


> It seems to power up and work, but does not pass sound. I tried it on my computer also and Windows recognized it and even re-named the output Speakers (Schiit Bifrost 2 unison USB), but no sound escapes. So I guess it will be another few weeks waiting. I would love to know what happened.



Unfortunate to hear but Schiit will put things right and the B2 is definitely worth it 💪


----------



## Shane D

supersonic395 said:


> Unfortunate to hear but Schiit will put things right and the B2 is definitely worth it 💪



That is my plan and hope.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Shane D said:


> That is my plan and hope.


Just to rule out it's your computer, do you have an Android or iPhone to connect to Bifrost2 and try out ?


----------



## Shane D

Smoothstereo said:


> Just to rule out it's your computer, do you have an Android or iPhone to connect to Bifrost2 and try out ?


I use my DAP to feed my system. I also tested the computer as another source.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Shane D said:


> I use my DAP to feed my system. I also tested the computer as another source.


Ok, I feel your pain. All the anticipation and waiting to get that new toy and it arrives defective. Not the best feeling. Hopefully you can get a replacement unit soon.


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought a Bifrost2 in black. I have a schiit load of Schiit now.

Yggdrasil, Mjolnir 2, Bifrost2.


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> Asgard 3 will do it - I'm using it at the moment with a Bifrost 2 - sounds awesome



Supersonic, where have you been ? Long time no see and now I join you in Bifrost2.


----------



## UntilThen

Question for anyone with a Bifrost2 and a Yggdrasil 2. Do they have similar tonality?  

My Yggdrasil is unblemished and un-upgraded. Bought new in 2017 and have so far resisted upgrading it. Using a Schiit Eitr with it. Kind of like it as it is but if the Bifrost2 is much warmer, I wouldn't mind too - for a bit of contrast.........


----------



## supersonic395

UntilThen said:


> Supersonic, where have you been ? Long time no see and now I join you in Bifrost2.



I focused on speakers for a while but the work from home situated gave the perfect "excuse" to get a desktop set up 😁


----------



## UntilThen

supersonic395 said:


> I focused on speakers for a while but the work from home situated gave the perfect "excuse" to get a desktop set up 😁



 I have speakers all right. Big floor standers and super monitors but I spend more time with my headphone setup which is 5 amps and 4 headphones and now 2 dacs.


----------



## mammal

To add to reports, ordered Bifrost 2 in black (230VAC EUR version) on 16th and they just sent me a tracking number.


----------



## Tralfaz

nasty nate said:


> What tube you using?


For the answer to this (and other burning questions of vital import) you'll have to check my posts on the Lyr 3 tube rolling thread - I don't want to hijack this thread.


----------



## shafat777

Received my BF2 this morning. Plugged it in my pc and Xlr out to GSX-mini and so far it sounds great. Clean, wide soundstage with a hint of warmth. 

However, i do hear a click whenver i switch songs or the bit rate changes..is this normal?


----------



## jnak00

shafat777 said:


> However, i do hear a click whenver i switch songs or the bit rate changes..is this normal?



Yes, that's normal


----------



## Shane D

shafat777 said:


> Received my BF2 this morning. Plugged it in my pc and Xlr out to GSX-mini and so far it sounds great. Clean, wide soundstage with a hint of warmth.
> 
> However, i do hear a click whenver i switch songs or the bit rate changes..is this normal?



Good to hear!


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 27, 2021)

My BF2 came today as well but there's no clicks when I change songs on Tidal HiFi to Master or whatever


----------



## supersonic395 (Jan 27, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> My BF2 came today as well but there's no clicks when I change songs on Tidal HiFi to Master or whatever



There should be a click* when the file bit depth & khz change. Maybe Tidal is pulling a fast one?

* It's a click within the hardware itself so if you're using closed back headphones you may not hear it


----------



## SnowRang3r

UntilThen said:


> My BF2 came today as well but there's no clicks when I change songs on Tidal HiFi to Master or whatever


I don’t know on Mac, but on Windows you can tell Tidal to use “exclusive mode” on the output device.


----------



## UntilThen

SnowRang3r said:


> I don’t know on Mac, but on Windows you can tell Tidal to use “exclusive mode” on the output device.



I have bought PC and Mac, so will do more testing later. Going out now to grab my floor standers speakers !


----------



## shafat777

jnak00 said:


> Yes, that's normal


That makes me happy. This thing is excellent. Sound quality is superb with soundstage a lot wider than D90 and slightly narrower than the Ares 2. However, the BF2 excels in soundstage as it is a little more 3d/holographic than the Ares 2. ThE ares 2 is clean and crisper but the Bf2 is smooth and musical. Overall very happy with the purchase. Right now I have the Ares 2 hooked up to the Elise while the GSX-mini is being fed by the Bifrost 2. LEt me know if you guys think i should swap the dacs with the amps.


----------



## Shane D

Got my replacement unit and it will not work either. The USB port is not picking up my DAP at all. I went into the office and plugged into my computer. Same as last time. The computer sees and recognizes the DAC. It even renames the USB output to Bifrost 2, but again no sound.
I decided to try something different this time and I pulled out a S/PDIF cable and plugged it in. It works fine and sound comes from the DAC fine.
I have several USB cables. I am not sure if they are all 2.0 or not. However, the shortest is five feet. Schiit recommends two feet, but that would be tricky with my set-ups.
Should I bite the bullet and Amazon up a 2ft. USB 2.0 cable? My other DAC’s (Topping D30 and SMSL SU-8) work fine with these cables. Is the Schiit super fussy?
Or am I missing something else?


----------



## GDuss

Shane D said:


> Got my replacement unit and it will not work either. The USB port is not picking up my DAP at all. I went into the office and plugged into my computer. Same as last time. The computer sees and recognizes the DAC. It even renames the USB output to Bifrost 2, but again no sound.
> I decided to try something different this time and I pulled out a S/PDIF cable and plugged it in. It works fine and sound comes from the DAC fine.
> I have several USB cables. I am not sure if they are all 2.0 or not. However, the shortest is five feet. Schiit recommends two feet, but that would be tricky with my set-ups.
> Should I bite the bullet and Amazon up a 2ft. USB 2.0 cable? My other DAC’s (Topping D30 and SMSL SU-8) work fine with these cables. Is the Schiit super fussy?
> Or am I missing something else?



I have had the Bifrost 2 for maybe 6 months or so, and have used 2 different USB cables that are 6 ft each.  The first one was an inexpensive cable from Monoprice (I think it was from them) and the current one is a Wireworld Chroma 8 USB 2.0.  Both work fine.  So I would guess that the problem is something else, although I can't say I know what it is.


----------



## Shane D

GDuss said:


> I have had the Bifrost 2 for maybe 6 months or so, and have used 2 different USB cables that are 6 ft each.  The first one was an inexpensive cable from Monoprice (I think it was from them) and the current one is a Wireworld Chroma 8 USB 2.0.  Both work fine.  So I would guess that the problem is something else, although I can't say I know what it is.



Thanks for the reply. Do you only use it with a computer?


----------



## GDuss (Jan 30, 2021)

Shane D said:


> Thanks for the reply. Do you only use it with a computer?



Yes.  Almost always a laptop.  I haven't tried with a DAP,  that's a good point.

I have also run it from an iPhone, but that was using the camera connection kit that had power plugged into it at the same time.


----------



## Shane D

GDuss said:


> Yes.  Almost always a laptop.  I haven't tried with a DAP,  that's a good point.
> 
> I have also run it from an iPhone, but that was using the camera connection kit that had power plugged into it at the same time.



I haven't tried the laptop. I might do that before the weekend is over.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 30, 2021)

Try plugging the DAP and BF2 into a powered USB hub.  Try it with the computer, too.

(I assume your computer is Win10 or Mac OS and the DAC supports UAC 2.0?)


----------



## Shane D

Ripper2860 said:


> Try plugging the DAP and BF2 into a powered USB hub.  Try it with the computer, too.
> 
> (I assume your computer is Win10 or Mac OS and the DAC supports UAC 2.0?)



Not sure I get you? The BF2 is plugged into a power strip. The DAP has a line out on the bottom. The line out cable goes to a USB cable which plugs into the DAC. You cannot power the DAP While it is feeding the DAC. A pic:


I don't use the DAP with my computer. It is a Windows 10 computer.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 30, 2021)

I was just concerned that the DAP did not supply enough power to BF2 as Unison still does require power via USB -- it's not signal only.  A Powered USB HUB should provide enough power and would be a quick way (assuming you have one) to rule out a USB power related issue.  And since you said your computer did not produce sound either, I thought why not try it on a powered USB hub as well to rule it out for both the DAP and computer.

I've never tried a DAP, but I do run a Win10 computer via USB to BF2 using a 12' USB cable.


----------



## GDuss

Ripper2860 said:


> I was just concerned that the DAP did not supply enough power to BF2 as Unison still does require power via USB -- it's not signal only.  A Powered USB HUB should provide enough power and would be a quick way (assuming you have one) to rule out a USB power related issue.  And since you said your computer did not produce sound either, I thought why not try it on a powered USB hub as well to rule it out for both the DAP and computer.
> 
> I've never tried a DAP, but I do run a Win10 computer via USB to BF2 using a 12' USB cable.



I was thinking something similar to this as well, but it's confusing since the computer USB output should have enough power.  Maybe not in this case, or not enough to run the BF2 on a 6 ft cable.  Some USB cables separate out the signal wires and power wires, which is how the Chroma 8 is designed if you look at the structure of it (image below).  I have no idea whether this makes any difference at all, whether it might matter for longer cables, or whether it's just pure marketing.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 30, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I was just concerned that the DAP did not supply enough power to BF2 as Unison still does require power via USB -- it's not signal only.  A Powered USB HUB should provide enough power and would be a quick way (assuming you have one) to rule out a USB power related issue.  And since you said your computer did not produce sound either, I thought why not try it on a powered USB hub as well to rule it out for both the DAP and computer.
> 
> I've never tried a DAP, but I do run a Win10 computer via USB to BF2 using a 12' USB cable.



I am trying to think how that would even work my my DAP.
My DAP has a line out cable from the bottom leading to a female USB. Then I have a USB "printer cable" to feed the BF2.
Not sure how I could introduce a powered USB Hub into the chain?
I have USB charging ports on every power bar and my computer has 5 or 6 USB ports so I never thought of a power hub.
I guess I would only need something like that if I used my laptop that only one had one USB out?

I am surprised that the thick power cord with the BF2 could not supply enough power to run the USB pirt?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 30, 2021)

GDuss said:


> I was thinking something similar to this as well, but it's confusing since the computer USB output should have enough power.



I suspect 2 different issues.  Getting one to work would definitely rule out the BF2.


----------



## GDuss

Shane D said:


> I am trying to think how that would even work my my DAP.
> My DAP has line out cable from the bottom leading a female USB. Then I have a USB "printer cable" to feed the BF2.
> Not sure how I could introduce a powered USB Hub into the chain?
> I have USB charging ports on every power bar and my computer has 5 or 6 USB ports so I never thought of a power hub.
> I guess I would only need something like that if I used my laptop that only one had one USB out?



I'm not sure whether this option exists for the DAP you have, but the iPhone line out I use is like the one on the right, where you get both a line out and a power in.  The one on the left is only line out with no power.  In many cases, if you use the one on the left, there is not enough power from the phone to power the USB device.  With the one on the right, if you plug it into power, then it provides enough to run a USB device.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 30, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I suspect you may have 2 different issues.  Getting one to work would definitely rule out the BF2.



I agree.
The DAP does not appear to even be talking to the DAC.
The DAC seems to communicate fine with the computer, but will not pass sound through USB (but will with S/SPIDF).
Hmmmm.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jan 30, 2021)

What I'm proposing may not be possible, as I've never used my DAP to drive anything other than headphones, but I would imagine from the phone (using a Apple camera adapter or a USB2Go adapter) and then USB B Male to USB B Male into a hub then out from the hub to BF2 via USB B Male to USB A Male cable -- if that's even doable.


----------



## Shane D

GDuss said:


> I'm not sure whether this option exists for the DAP you have, but the iPhone line out I use is like the one on the right, where you get both a line out and a power in.  The one on the left is only line out with no power.  In many cases, if you use the one on the left, there is not enough power from the phone to power the USB device.  With the one on the right, if you plug it into power, then it provides enough to run a USB device.


Kinda makes sense, but it works fine with my other DAC's.


Ripper2860 said:


> What I'm propisng may not be possible, as I've never used my DAP to drive anything other than headphones, but I would imagine from the phone (using a Apple camera adapter or a USB2Go adapter) and then USB B Male to USB B Male into a hub then out form the hub to BF2 via USB B Male to USB A Male cable -- if that's even doable.



No, the only line out is a proprietary cable from Sony.

And I don't have a powered USB hub.


----------



## kkrazik2008

Shane D said:


> I agree.
> The DAP does not appear to even be talking to the DAC.
> The DAC seems to communicate fine with the computer, but will not pass sound through USB (but will with S/SPIDF).
> Hmmmm.


I was looking at the manual for your DAP, it doesn’t appear to support using an external DAC to feed via USB. That may be why you are facing this issue, when connected to the computer the DAP will act as an external DAC for what the computer feeds it. 
As to why the computer does not play through USB on the Bifrost, that may have more to do with the computer settings and drivers.


----------



## Shane D (Jan 30, 2021)

kkrazik2008 said:


> I was looking at the manual for your DAP, it doesn’t appear to support using an external DAC to feed via USB. That may be why you are facing this issue, when connected to the computer the DAP will act as an external DAC for what the computer feeds it.
> As to why the computer does not play through USB on the Bifrost, that may have more to do with the computer settings and drivers.



I am aware of the line-out "issue".
Sony Canada told me it was not possible and they do not sell any such cable.
I did some digging on Head-Fi and found out about a Sony line-out cable sold in Japan and I ordered it through Amazon. I knew it was a crap shoot, but I tried it. It works fine with my first two DAC's. For some reason (licensing? Copying music?) They will not acknowledge it in North America.

I do not use the DAP with my computer as the computer has my whole library in iTunes.


----------



## kkrazik2008

Shane D said:


> I am aware of the line-out "issue".
> Sony Canada told me it was not possible and they do not sell any such cable.
> I did some digging on Head-Fi and found out about a Sony line-out cable sold in Japan and I ordered it through Amazon. I knew it was a crap shoot, but I tried it. It works fine with my first two DAC's. For some reason (licensing? Copying music?) They will not acknowledge it in North America.
> 
> I do not use the DAP with my computer as the computer has my whole library in iTunes.



I was not suggesting using your DAP with your computer, only attempting to help you troubleshoot shoot the issues with your Bifrost.


----------



## rkw

Shane D said:


> I have several USB cables. I am not sure if they are all 2.0 or not. However, the shortest is five feet. Schiit recommends two feet


You didn't say whether you tried your other USB cables. You should definitely do that if you haven't, and also using different ports on your computer. The USB 2.0 standard specifies up to 5 meters and you shouldn't need to worry about length unless it's 10 ft or more.


----------



## Shane D

rkw said:


> You didn't say whether you tried your other USB cables. You should definitely do that if you haven't, and also using different ports on your computer. The USB 2.0 standard specifies up to 5 meters and you shouldn't need to worry about length unless it's 10 ft or more.


I did try all three. That port is fine for my other DAC's. I will tinker more tonight or tomorrow. Enough hours wasted today. Do more tomorrow and then talk to Schiit on Monday.


----------



## Neweymatt

GDuss said:


> I'm not sure whether this option exists for the DAP you have, but the iPhone line out I use is like the one on the right, where you get both a line out and a power in.  The one on the left is only line out with no power.  In many cases, if you use the one on the left, there is not enough power from the phone to power the USB device.  With the one on the right, if you plug it into power, then it provides enough to run a USB device.


I use the older CCK, the one on the left, with iPhone/iPad no problem, using schiit's own PYST USB A-B cable to the Bifrost.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think Bifrost uses any USB power, unlike Modius/Modi which can use USB power or wall wart.

I might play around with my DAP later, but I recall the AudioQuest USB C dragontail OTG cable also worked fine for me to Bifrost.


----------



## Midnight12

Just got my Bifrost 2 yesterday. I notice that it gets pretty hot, especially after being turned on for over 4hours. Not so hot that you cant touch it but its definitely very hot. is this normal?


----------



## UntilThen

Midnight12 said:


> Just got my Bifrost 2 yesterday. I notice that it gets pretty hot, especially after being turned on for over 4hours. Not so hot that you cant touch it but its definitely very hot. is this normal?



It's not that hot even after several hours. I don't turn off my BF2. It's been 1 or 2 weeks now since I bought a 3 months old unit. As good as new. What did I think of it? Simply marvellous. I have live with my Yggdrasil 1 for about 3.5 years now and love it for it's clarity, details and life like presentation. Bifrost 2 sounds even more life like in being more organic and yet very clear. I have heard my son's Topping D90 which has a lot more details at the top end but I prefer Bifrost 2 because it's more real and organic.

I also just pick up a Elekit TU-8200 headphone / speaker amp that uses EL34, KT88 and 6L6GC tubes. This pairing is so good and so cost effective that it rivals my more expensive setup in the past.


----------



## Midnight12

Midnight12 said:


> Just got my Bifrost 2 yesterday. I notice that it gets pretty hot, especially after being turned on for over 4hours. Not so hot that you cant touch it but its definitely very hot. is this normal?


Okay I think I know why its heating up. I am stacking Jotunheim 2 on top of the Bifrost 2. Jotunheim 2 doesn't feel very warm on the top and sides but the bottom is very hot. The Jotunheim is making the entire Bifrost 2 hot. I placed them side by side now instead of stacking them. My Bifrost 2 is now just slightly warm.


----------



## Shane D (Feb 1, 2021)

So, the Bifrost 2, for my situation, is a no-go. It will not talk to my DAP. It does work fine with the computer, but that is not why I bought it. Techie said, "We can't guarantee compatibility with everything". Very disappointing as I just got it Friday. I am guessing that even if I could return it, it will cost the 15% re-stocking fee and shipping back to California. Plus, I already paid the tax at the border so that is not getting refunded. Sucks to be Shane day.
On the upside, I don't dislike my SMSL SU-8 DAC. I was just looking at an upgrade.


----------



## jnak00

Shane D said:


> So, the Bifrost 2, for my situation, is a no-go. It will not talk to my DAP. It does work fine with the computer, but that is not why I bought it. Techie said, "We can't guarantee compatibility with everything". Very disappointing as I just got it Friday. I am guessing that even if I could return it, it will cost the 15% re-stocking fee and shipping back to California. Plus, I already paid the tax at the border so that is not getting refunded. Sucks to be Shane day.
> On the upside, I don't dislike my SMSL SU-8 DAC. I was just looking at an upgrade.



That sucks.  My Pixel 4XL works with my Bifrost 2.  Tough to make everything compatible with the 10,000 versions of Android out there though.

I think if you choose to sell the Bifrost you would get better value than shipping it back.


----------



## bigjako

Shane D said:


> So, the Bifrost 2, for my situation, is a no-go. It will not talk to my DAP. It does work fine with the computer, but that is not why I bought it. Techie said, "We can't guarantee compatibility with everything". Very disappointing as I just got it Friday. I am guessing that even if I could return it, it will cost the 15% re-stocking fee and shipping back to California. Plus, I already paid the tax at the border so that is not getting refunded. Sucks to be Shane day.
> On the upside, I don't dislike my SMSL SU-8 DAC. I was just looking at an upgrade.


I saw that it had been suggested above, but I'm not sure if you tried it and failed.  Whenever I had to connect a DAC to a low-power device (basically an iPad or iPhone), I would have to use a powered USB or the DAC would not recognize/connect to the device.  It's how I would connect my BF2 to my iPad or iPhone (or my Modius or xDuoo DAC, too for that matter).


----------



## UntilThen

bigjako said:


> I saw that it had been suggested above, but I'm not sure if you tried it and failed.  Whenever I had to connect a DAC to a low-power device (basically an iPad or iPhone), I would have to use a powered USB or the DAC would not recognize/connect to the device.  It's how I would connect my BF2 to my iPad or iPhone (or my Modius or xDuoo DAC, too for that matter).



^^ makes sense. I use a powered USB too.


----------



## supersonic395

Shane D said:


> So, the Bifrost 2, for my situation, is a no-go. It will not talk to my DAP. It does work fine with the computer, but that is not why I bought it. Techie said, "We can't guarantee compatibility with everything". Very disappointing as I just got it Friday. I am guessing that even if I could return it, it will cost the 15% re-stocking fee and shipping back to California. Plus, I already paid the tax at the border so that is not getting refunded. Sucks to be Shane day.
> On the upside, I don't dislike my SMSL SU-8 DAC. I was just looking at an upgrade.



You'd be better off selling it locally as you'll at least cover your costs if not sell it for higher than you paid. I've noticed Schiit equipment sells very quickly outside the US due to the sheer unavailability of it (& fear of import/customs fees).


----------



## GDuss

supersonic395 said:


> You'd be better off selling it locally as you'll at least cover your costs if not sell it for higher than you paid. I've noticed Schiit equipment sells very quickly outside the US due to the sheer unavailability of it (& fear of import/customs fees).



The Bifrost2 sells quickly even in the US.  They typically only last a few hours in the sales forums.  It's impressive actually, given how long it's been out now.


----------



## supersonic395

GDuss said:


> The Bifrost2 sells quickly even in the US.  They typically only last a few hours in the sales forums.  It's impressive actually, given how long it's been out now.



Oh wow didn't realise that either but it's good to hear! 

I think Schiit is very safe investment wise as the resale value remains incredibly high.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Shane D said:


> So, the Bifrost 2, for my situation, is a no-go. It will not talk to my DAP. It does work fine with the computer, but that is not why I bought it. Techie said, "We can't guarantee compatibility with everything". Very disappointing as I just got it Friday. I am guessing that even if I could return it, it will cost the 15% re-stocking fee and shipping back to California. Plus, I already paid the tax at the border so that is not getting refunded. Sucks to be Shane day.
> On the upside, I don't dislike my SMSL SU-8 DAC. I was just looking at an upgrade.


Does your DAP have digital coaxial or optical out? Can you connect it that way to the Bifrost2?


----------



## UntilThen

When looking for a backup dac for my Yggdrasil, I look at Topping D90, Bifrost 2 and Denafrips Ares II. I chose Bifrost 2 after listening to my son’s Topping D90. Ares II would be too warm and less details for my liking.

I’ve not regretted buying Bifrost 2. Very good tone with any of my amps.


----------



## Shane D

Smoothstereo said:


> Does your DAP have digital coaxial or optical out? Can you connect it that way to the Bifrost2?


No, it does not.


----------



## Shane D

Is there any difference on how you choose to feed a DAC?

Specifically, would you notice any difference between using a laptop to DAC set-up vs using a DAP as a transport to pass music to the DAC?
The files would be exactly the same for both.


----------



## jnak00

Shane D said:


> Is there any difference on how you choose to feed a DAC?
> 
> Specifically, would you notice any difference between using a laptop to DAC set-up vs using a DAP as a transport to pass music to the DAC?
> The files would be exactly the same for both.



You might notice a difference.  The USB on a laptop may be better or worse than from your DAP.  I can't say I've ever noticed a difference comparing laptop to phone over USB.


----------



## TheRealDz

Sorry to hear about your troubles. 

Were you able to compare the BF2 to the SU-8 by any chance?  Is it a a "v2" model?  (I have a v2, and am curious about how much of an improvement a BF2 would be). 



Shane D said:


> So, the Bifrost 2, for my situation, is a no-go. It will not talk to my DAP. It does work fine with the computer, but that is not why I bought it. Techie said, "We can't guarantee compatibility with everything". Very disappointing as I just got it Friday. I am guessing that even if I could return it, it will cost the 15% re-stocking fee and shipping back to California. Plus, I already paid the tax at the border so that is not getting refunded. Sucks to be Shane day.
> On the upside, I don't dislike my SMSL SU-8 DAC. I was just looking at an upgrade.


----------



## Shane D

Is there any difference on how you choose to feed a DAC?

Specifically, would you notice any difference between using a laptop to DAC set-up vs using a DAP as a transport to pass music to the DAC?
The files would be exactly the same for both.



TheRealDz said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubles.
> 
> Were you able to compare the BF2 to the SU-8 by any chance?  Is it a a "v2" model?  (I have a v2, and am curious about how much of an improvement a BF2 would be).



I do indeed have a V2. I have not compared them yet as I am waiting for a digital splitter (USB to S/PDIF).
I kyst started thinking tidat about a laptop I bought two and a half years ago for a project, but never use.
I will load it up with music tonight and hook it up to the BF2 tomorrow.


----------



## Shane D

jnak00 said:


> You might notice a difference.  The USB on a laptop may be better or worse than from your DAP.  I can't say I've ever noticed a difference comparing laptop to phone over USB.



My DAP can't talk to the DAC, so I am waiting on a digital splitter/converter.


----------



## Sean_MR

If anyone is interested, I posted my review of the Bifrost 2.  I know it's far from a new product anymore, but if anyone was still deciding and wanted another perspective, maybe mine can help.  Disclaimer though, it is a _very_ non-conventional review.  But there were no reviews for the product on the site yet so I figured what the heck.  Anyways, it's not for everyone but I think for a few select people it might be very helpful 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews


----------



## adamos

Sean_MR said:


> If anyone is interested, I posted my review of the Bifrost 2.  I know it's far from a new product anymore, but if anyone was still deciding and wanted another perspective, maybe mine can help.  Disclaimer though, it is a _very_ non-conventional review.  But there were no reviews for the product on the site yet so I figured what the heck.  Anyways, it's not for everyone but I think for a few select people it might be very helpful
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews



I enjoyed reading your review. Sorry that after all that you ended up having to sell your setup. I hope you’ll be able to get another one in the future.


----------



## Sean_MR

adamos said:


> I enjoyed reading your review. Sorry that after all that you ended up having to sell your setup. I hope you’ll be able to get another one in the future.


Thank you!  Being my first audio review ever, that makes me happy to hear.  And yea I miss it, but at least by the time I get back hopefully there’ll be a whole bunch of new stuff to try out


----------



## Guidostrunk

So you have no gear at all now Sean? Great review btw!


Sean_MR said:


> Thank you!  Being my first audio review ever, that makes me happy to hear.  And yea I miss it, but at least by the time I get back hopefully there’ll be a whole bunch of new stuff to try out


----------



## XERO1

UntilThen said:


> It's not that hot even after several hours. I don't turn off my BF2. It's been 1 or 2 weeks now since I bought a 3 months old unit. As good as new. What did I think of it? Simply marvellous. I have live with my Yggdrasil 1 for about 3.5 years now and love it for it's clarity, details and life like presentation. Bifrost 2 sounds even more life like in being more organic and yet very clear. I have heard my son's Topping D90 which has a lot more details at the top end but I prefer Bifrost 2 because it's more real and organic.
> 
> I also just pick up a Elekit TU-8200 headphone / speaker amp that uses EL34, KT88 and 6L6GC tubes. This pairing is so good and so cost effective that it rivals my more expensive setup in the past.


----------



## XERO1 (Feb 3, 2021)

Sean_MR said:


> If anyone is interested, I posted my review of the Bifrost 2.  I know it's far from a new product anymore, but if anyone was still deciding and wanted another perspective, maybe mine can help.  Disclaimer though, it is a _very_ non-conventional review.  But there were no reviews for the product on the site yet so I figured what the heck.  Anyways, it's not for everyone but I think for a few select people it might be very helpful
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews





Sean_MR said:


> Thank you!  Being my first audio review ever, that makes me happy to hear.  And yea I miss it, but at least by the time I get back hopefully there’ll be a whole bunch of new stuff to try out



Nice review!

As you begin to rebuild your system with a smaller budget, you should seriously consider getting the Modi Multibit next time.  I was able to compare the ModiMB and the BF2 side-by-side, and I thought the ModiMB gave me around 95% of the tone and 85% of the resolution and texture of what the BF2 offered. It's only real downsides are it only has a RCA output and it's normal operating temperature is quite high, so it's case gets pretty hot. But IMHO, it's the best value going in DACs, if you prize tone and texture over pure technicalities.


----------



## Delta9K

Sean_MR said:


> If anyone is interested, I posted my review of the Bifrost 2.  I know it's far from a new product anymore, but if anyone was still deciding and wanted another perspective, maybe mine can help.  Disclaimer though, it is a _very_ non-conventional review.  But there were no reviews for the product on the site yet so I figured what the heck.  Anyways, it's not for everyone but I think for a few select people it might be very helpful
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews


Nice write-up. It was a fun read. OK, maybe not the last bit about being forced out temporarily by the covid... I hope things turn around quickly for you.


----------



## Sean_MR

Guidostrunk said:


> So you have no gear at all now Sean? Great review btw!


I managed to save up enough to get a super budget mini setup to hold me over.  Just a pair of Meze 99 Neo’s with the Earmen Eagle, coming from my phone.  It’s surprisingly good for a $300 setup!  And @XERO1 I've thought about that actually!  But knowing myself, if I allowed myself to spend a little more money than my current setup, I’d convince myself it’s ok to just spend a little more, and then a little more... and you guys know the rest  My brain works black and white, there’s no middle ground haha. I have to be firm and stay super budget, or I’ll just slowly go down the rabbit hole all over again  So I’m restraining, but I know it’ll be worth the wait!


----------



## Shane D

I revamped my system to incorporate and compare my new BF2.

I am running two systems into my Violectric V220:

Laptop to BF2 to V220 via XLR
DAP to SMSL SU-8 to V220 via SE
Volume matching is Very close.

I have a test list of 44 songs, including Dave Matthews, Adele, Led Zeppelin, Head of the Herd, Counting Crows, etc. All songs I know very, very well.


I was led to believe that I would be “blown away” with the upgrade to BF2. My initial reaction is that I hear little to no difference between the two. Using my V220 remote and synching the sources I can go between the two devices in real time as the music is playing. I don’t hear any new depth or texture or anything else when switching to the BF2.

My landed cost on a BF2 in Canada was $1,135.00. Would I do it again? Nope!
Hopefully I will come to appreciate it more over time.


I should also mention that I do not consider myself an audiophile, do not have golden ears and am 60 years old.


Just my first thoughts. I will keep the DAC’s side by side for at least a week or two to do a longer comparison.


I am not shocked. I am also the guy that thinks the HD600’s/HD650’s suck, so I obviously march to the sound of my own drummer.


----------



## Delta9K (Feb 5, 2021)

Shane D said:


> Hopefully I will come to appreciate it more over time.


It took me a couple days honestly to really begin to hear the differences. I came direct from the Modius to the Bf2, and had even commented to some the same as you, that I was not being blown away. But then one night in a listening session it just hit me and I was like WOW.

The Bf2 does like to be warm. I have not turned mine off since I got it. Also, and I say this hoping to not be flamed - the Bf2 also appeared as if it needed some "burn in" to jump start the electrons flowing through it. So do give it a week or so just using it as you normally would - perhaps not so much trying to A/B. Then after a week or so go back to the other set up and see if there is anything you miss or pops out that was missing.

I wish you the best of luck but also realize we are all different, and that is OK. When spending the kind of money we do in this hobby you need to feel like you are getting your monies worth, and that the satisfaction derived is commensurate to the expense.


----------



## Shane D

Delta9K said:


> It took me a couple days honestly to really begin to hear the differences. I came direct from the Modius to the Bf2, and had even commented to some the same as you, that I was not being blown away. But then one night in a listening session it just hit me and I was like WOW.  The Bf2 does like to be warm I have not turned mine of since I got it. Also, and I say this hoping to not be flamed - the Bf2 also appeared as if it needed some "burn in" to jump start the electrons flowing through it.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck but also realize we are all different, and that is OK. When spending the kind of money we do in this hobby you need to feel like you are getting your monies worth, and that the satisfaction derived is commensurate to the expense.



My opinion may well change over time, but there was no "Oh yeah!" moment initially.

I already have it and returning it is not an option, so I will using it for the long term.

I don't dislike it, just not wowed.


----------



## jnak00

Shane D said:


> My opinion may well change over time, but there was no "Oh yeah!" moment initially.
> 
> I already have it and returning it is not an option, so I will using it for the long term.
> 
> I don't dislike it, just not wowed.



It took a while to grow on me too.  Couple things - I find it hard to discern differences in DACs by quick A/B switching.  If I listen to one for a longer period of time, and then switch and listen to the same tracks again, I find it easier to hear differences.  The differences are likely pretty subtle.

Second, I find it easier to hear DAC differences on speakers vs headphones.


----------



## bigjako

I also came from the Modius to the BF2 and I’m fortunate enough to live near the Schiitr. I spent a couple hours there, all alone, swapping back and forth between their setups and the BF2 really stood out there to me, compared to the Modius and even the Modi MB. I also had a Mimby at the time.  Maybe the ones at the Schiitr were burned in and warmed up and so I heard them at their best but the experience made me want the BF2. At the time I couldn’t justify paying $700 for a DAC but, uh, times change.


----------



## UntilThen

Shane D said:


> I am not shocked. I am also the guy that thinks the HD600’s/HD650’s suck, so I obviously march to the sound of my own drummer.



A matter of preference really. I compared my son's Topping D90 and my BF2 and prefer the more organic and natural sounding BF2. However don't expect BF2 to change your world. There are far better dac than that and it's certainly not SMSL SU-8.

I do agree with you on HD600’s/HD650 - they don't suck to me but I have experience much better headphones and my HD650 is now in the closet.


----------



## sennfan83261

Hmm, interesting. I immediately took to the BF2 after upgrading from the SDAC-B and Mimby. The tactility of the BF2 reminded me of the time when I auditioned a Chord Hugo TT2 for a week (courtesy of TTVJ's loaner tour). In comparison, the SDAC-B and Mimby lacked this tactility that I thought I would have pony up a few thousand dollars to experience again. Thankfully not. I'm not saying that the BF2 is equal to that of the TT2, but it gets close to one of the more noticeable and memorable qualities of the latter. I cannot really compare the sound between the BF2 and TT2, as the loaner tour was over a year ago.


----------



## Zachik

Shane D said:


> I am not shocked. I am also the guy that thinks the HD600’s/HD650’s suck, so I obviously march to the sound of my own drummer.


Respect.  
When I auditioned the Focal Utopia at 2 or 3 different CanJams, on different super-high-end DACs and Amps, and never ever liked them - people told me I am crazy (or deaf). I do like the MUCH cheaper Focal Clear... so go figure 



Shane D said:


> I don't dislike it, just not wowed.


Yeah - many times when I audition new gear, I am not wow'd initially. Sometimes, however, after spending several more hours - the new headphone / amp / DAC just starts to grow on you!  
I would say give it more time...


----------



## Zachik

bigjako said:


> I’m fortunate enough to live near the Schiitr.


Hmmm... where do I even start?!


----------



## GDuss

Shane D said:


> was led to believe that I would be “blown away” with the upgrade to BF2.



I'm certainly not the first to be making this kind of comment, but in audio terms, "blown away" = maybe 7% different.  "Night and day" = maybe 10% different.  In reality, most changes that are made are relatively subtle in the grand scheme of things (with the exception of changing the transducer).  Differences between DACs may be be super obvious to the professional audio reviewer or to the person with decades of listening experience, but neither of those are me.  They're probably also not most people on this forum.

The other thing is that I think you had a fair amount of frustration getting the BF2 to work in your system and it sounds like it's not working for what you intended to use it for.  This is almost certainly going to influence your impressions of it once you got it working.  It certainly would for me.  Any time I've gotten frustrated with something in the system, or am simply frustrated with something that is unrelated to audio, my critical listening experience is generally not positive.  Once you get past the frustration, you may start to better appreciate what the BF2 is really doing, especially if you just listen to it exclusively for a few weeks.  As above, this is still likely to be single-digit % differences in reality.  But they may still be positive.

In my case, I switched to the BF2 after using the Hugo 2 as a DAC almost exclusively for about a year.  I was so used to the sound of the Hugo 2, that the difference with the BF2 was noticeable (and positive).  This was keeping all other components the same.  If I were relatively new to either DAC, or had changed something else in the chain at the same time, I'm not sure the differences would have been clear.  And either way, they're not "night and day" and I wasn't "blown away".

The point of all this is that I think what you are describing is actually quite normal.  It's definitely happened to me, and other responses to your posts suggest that I'm not unusual.


----------



## Smoothstereo

I think a lot of the time when we get a new component or headphone, we expect to be wowed. Perhaps reading other's glowing review/feedback might add to the excitement and expectations. I agree with GDuss, in the grand scheme of things, the delta between components of already good stature are very close, in some cases maybe more similar than different or just a different flavor. 

But since you have the BF2 on hand, listen to it exclusively for the time being, you might be surprised of the little nuances it does vs your other DAC. That's when you might discover its special qualities if there are any.

I am waiting for my BF2 to ship and will probably go through the same experience.


----------



## MrPanda

Smoothstereo said:


> I think a lot of the time when we get a new component or headphone, we expect to be wowed. Perhaps reading other's glowing review/feedback might add to the excitement and expectations. I agree with GDuss, in the grand scheme of things, the delta between components of already good stature are very close, in some cases maybe more similar than different or just a different flavor.
> 
> But since you have the BF2 on hand, listen to it exclusively for the time being, you might be surprised of the little nuances it does vs your other DAC. That's when you might discover its special qualities if there are any.
> 
> I am waiting for my BF2 to ship and will probably go through the same experience.


I have had BF1 and BF2, and to me, BF2 is quite a bit better in soundstage - but the really important difference for me was the better USB implementation.  Much better!


----------



## sennfan83261

MrPanda said:


> I have had BF1 and BF2, and to me, BF2 is quite a bit better in soundstage - but the really important difference for me was the better USB implementation.  Much better!


BF2 has a much better USB implementation than my old SDAC-B and Mimby. No more skipping of audio tracks compared to before. The past audio skipping came up rarely, but it was annoying when it did and required me to cycle-through/reset my sources in my WASAPI config.


----------



## Louisiana (Feb 6, 2021)

I have a question about DSD with the Bifrost 2.
I have a couple of albums in the DSD format, and the BF2 also plays them wonderfully up to DSD64 - but I heard today that the BF2 cannot decode DSD?
Can someone tell me more about this?










It works only with "DSD Direct", if i change to "DSD over PCM", it don't work, i hear just "hummm".


----------



## rkw

Louisiana said:


> I have a question about DSD with the Bifrost 2.
> I have a couple of albums in the DSD format, and the BF2 also plays them wonderfully up to DSD64 - but I heard today that the BF2 cannot decode DSD?
> Can someone tell me more about this?
> 
> ...


Click on the DSD Playback Mode "i" (info) icon. Volumio says in DSD Direct mode it will convert to PCM if DSD is not supported by the DAC.


----------



## Louisiana

Thx!


----------



## Arcayne

Louisiana said:


> I have a question about DSD with the Bifrost 2.
> I have a couple of albums in the DSD format, and the BF2 also plays them wonderfully up to DSD64 - but I heard today that the BF2 cannot decode DSD?
> Can someone tell me more about this?


Yep, the BF2 cannot decode DSD, but with a player that can convert it to PCM (which your player does, as answered above) it can still sound wonderful. My DSD albums sound better from the Bifrost 2 then they do from my DACs that decode DSD natively. What that tells me is just that the Bifrost 2 does more to improve my listening experience compared to my other DACs then DSD does compared to PCM.


----------



## Shane D

I have been using the BF2 non-stop all weekend. It required changing my system and introducing a laptop as my feed vs the old DAP. I had to shuffle some furniture around try to make it less cumbersome. I think I found a good layout (pic attached).

I am not going back and forth between DAC's as I want to give the BF2 time to establish itself. It sounds great and I am very curious to see my reaction to returning to the SMSL SU-8, which I am leaving on the table for a quick switchover towards next weekend.

It is kind of cool to find a use for my almost new (2.5 year old) laptop. I bought it for a project which didn't last long and I haven't been using it for the last two years. It does save running into the office for the "big screen" experience with the desktop.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

What do you think is a fair price for Bifrost 1 w/ Gen 5 USB? Just seeing what my options are for someone who's balling on a budget. $300? I think Gen 5 USB might solve my grounding issue, so somehow weird me things $300 for a new DAC versus paying $60 for a USB dongle is a better investment.


----------



## GoldenOne

Why have neutral when you can have fun?

*Pros: Warm and engaging presentation, forceful and well-presented lowend, convincing timbre, never fatiguing, isolated USB*
*Cons: resolution is 'good' but not amazing, blackground could be better, no DSD or high sample-rate support*

Video review has been posted here: 

The bifrost 2 is schiit's midrange multibit (R2R) dac offering.
It is an interesting dac for a few reasons, the primary one being that it offers an exceptionally warm and 'thick' presentation that will go a long way to satisfying rock and EDM lovers, as well as those that seek to ensure they will have an engaging and never fatiguing listen no matter what they're playing.

*Build and features:*
The build on the bifrost 2 is fantastic. Schiit's typical sleek design, a nice, matte finish metal sheet with sharp, clean text, and a simple front interface.
The build is overall fantastic and stacks perfectly with other schiit products. The only real gripe is that I do wish the power switch was accessible from the front of the unit (or that the input select switch doubled as a power button if you held it for example.)

Internally there are some fantastic things to see. A linear PSU, true balanced output stage, and perhaps my favourite of all, genuine, fully galvanically isolated USB. Its fantastic to see that on a DAC under 1k and is all too uncommon on alternative products.
Worth noting though, the SPDIF input does sound a touch different to the USB, even when fed from a schiit eitr or chord mscaler (upsampling off).
The USB input sounded a touch better to my ear, but the difference was subtle.

This is a no frills or gimmicks dac with some features that are very nice to see.

*Overall sound signature:*
This is a very warm sounding dac, its not a dac that is seeking outright performance in resolution and technicalities. Instead it seeks to draw you in with thunderous engagement, texture and a sound that invokes a desire to just get up and dance.
Even with dacs on my desk that were unquestionably more resolving, the Bifrost often ended up being my choice simply because it was just more FUN to listen to.

*Bass:*
Bass is particularly forceful and 'weighty'. Its not the fastest or most snappy, but retains excellent texture and timbre.
Genres such as rock, or tracks like "Pan" by plini sound fantastic, thumping, convincing and just all round fantastic on this dac. There is a sense of tactile imaging that many other dacs don't provide
The bass is really the defining characteristic of this dac. And there will be people who don't like it, it will certainly be a bit much for classical perhaps, but for many genres it really is just damn good fun.

*Midrange:*
Midrange is again, warm, engaging, forward and with a textured presentation that puts a smile on your face.
This is NOT a neutral dac, but I could not care less, because its just too much fun. Sometimes a little added colour and emotion goes a long way.
If you're a fan of something such as ZMF headphones, you'll be a fan of this DAC.

Timbre of both male and female vocals are invitingly real, with precise imaging and depth that leaves little to the imagination.
There are other dacs that outresolve the bifrost 2 for sure, but regardless the bifrost 2 is a more convincing presentation in several ways and I found myself switching back to it more often than other choices.

*Treble:*
The treble presentation on the bifrost 2 is 'good'. There's not a huge amount to write home about but nothing done wrong either.
Its not a hyper-resolving dac but never feels lacking.
The only real criticism is that I do wish 'air' on the bifrost 2 was a little more present. Switching from the Bifrost 2 to the slightly cheaper Soncoz SGD1 the SGD1 definitely won in terms of the presentation of more delicate upper treble elements and air.
Its good though, and there's really nothing to complain about. The other areas of this dac are what really sell it and the treble is done plenty well enough to keep everything sounding great.

*Conclusion:*
The Bifrost 2 is a flavoured (in a delicious way) and warm dac with a lot to love. Its not going to suit all tastes but if you're wanting more emotion, force, and THUNDER from your music then the bifrost 2 will provide.
The addition of extra features like galvanic isolation on the USB, and the linear PSU mean that its hard to find a reason NOT to recommend this dac unless the flavour simply isn't to your tastes.

My only issue now is It's left me eager to try it's big brother the yggdrasil!


----------



## SolaVirtus

GoldenOne said:


> Why have neutral when you can have fun?
> 
> *Pros: Warm and engaging presentation, forceful and well-presented lowend, convincing timbre, never fatiguing, isolated USB*
> *Cons: resolution is 'good' but not amazing, blackground could be better, no DSD or high sample-rate support*
> ...



Good review. This pretty closely reflects my experience with Bifrost 2 for the last few weeks, though admittedly without a higher end or even equivalent to compare.


----------



## RenEh

Shane D said:


> My landed cost on a BF2 in Canada was $1,135.00. Would I do it again? Nope!
> Hopefully I will come to appreciate it more over time.
> 
> I am not shocked. I am also the guy that thinks the HD600’s/HD650’s suck, so I obviously march to the sound of my own drummer.



Wow, that landed price. I'm really glad I bought the Ares 2 instead now. I'm also in Canada, and I also think the HD6xx sucks.


----------



## Shane D

RenEh said:


> Wow, that landed price. I'm really glad I bought the Ares 2 instead now. I'm also in Canada, and I also think the HD6xx sucks.


The Ares II was even more. It was working out to about $750.00US with current exchange rates.


----------



## RenEh

Shane D said:


> The Ares II was even more. It was working out to about $750.00US with current exchange rates.



Ares 2 was $970 cad after exchange + $40 for DHL.


----------



## Shane D

RenEh said:


> Ares 2 was $970 cad after exchange + $40 for DHL.



How long ago? Our dollar is up against the US$, but I think it is down against the Singapore dollar. I bought about three weeks ago.
I paid $989.00, including shipping. Shipping was about $62.00US. Or maybe shipping was $55.00?


----------



## RenEh

Shane D said:


> How long ago? Our dollar is up against the US$, but I think it is down against the Singapore dollar. I bought about three weeks ago.
> I paid $989.00, including shipping. Shipping was about $62.00US. Or maybe shipping was $55.00?


End of January. I also used a credit card with zero foreign exchange charges (rogers). Shipping was free and brokerage was fairly low at $40.


----------



## Shane D

RenEh said:


> End of January. I also used a credit card with zero foreign exchange charges (rogers). Shipping was free and brokerage was fairly low at $40.



I didn't pay any brokerage fees, just 15% sales tax. Did they under report the value for you? I have ordered from Shenzhen a few times and it is definitely cheaper. I liked the longer warranty and that it is upgradeable at home with Schiit. I did go back forth a lot though.


----------



## RenEh

Shane D said:


> I didn't pay any brokerage fees, just 15% sales tax. Did they under report the value for you? I have ordered from Shenzhen a few times and it is definitely cheaper. I liked the longer warranty and that it is upgradeable at home with Schiit. I did go back forth a lot though.



No, I think the customs fee was pre-paid. I also went back and forth between these two, and since I can't audition them it was very hard. Ultimately, I hooked up an old and cheap 90's CD player with a r2r dac to my speakers and loved the sound. R2R won.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. Didn't realize that this dac doesn't run on win 7. What a bummer. I totally regret this purchase. Should have stayed with my Denafrips.


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow. Didn't realize that this dac doesn't run on win 7. What a bummer. I totally regret this purchase. Should have stayed with my Denafrips.



I hear you! It won't work with my DAP for the same reason.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They screwed the pooch on this one. Really pisses me off. I hate windows 8 and 10. It makes no sense that they would do away with win7.


Shane D said:


> I hear you! It won't work with my DAP for the same reason.


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> They screwed the pooch on this one. Really pisses me off. I hate windows 8 and 10. It makes no sense that they would do away with win7.



In my case, I like Windows 10 and I had a laptop sitting around. Annoying though.


----------



## Ripper2860

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow. Didn't realize that this dac doesn't run on win 7. What a bummer. I totally regret this purchase. Should have stayed with my Denafrips.



The good news is that Schiit products hold a high resale value.  Should be no problem selling it quickly and getting back a good chunk of what you paid.


----------



## jnak00

Guidostrunk said:


> Wow. Didn't realize that this dac doesn't run on win 7. What a bummer. I totally regret this purchase. Should have stayed with my Denafrips.



It says "Windows 10 only" on the Bifrost 2 FAQ page.  Granted, it's kind of buried near the bottom of the page, but still there.


----------



## Neweymatt

Guidostrunk said:


> They screwed the pooch on this one. Really pisses me off. I hate windows 8 and 10. It makes no sense that they would do away with win7.



https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information

Win7 is EOL by Microsoft, just sayin'


----------



## Guidostrunk

I bought it from the forums here from Matt tgc lol. I really want to give it a try. I suppose I can get over the win10 ordeal and just get a laptop with it.  


jnak00 said:


> It says "Windows 10 only" on the Bifrost 2 FAQ page.  Granted, it's kind of buried near the bottom of the page, but still there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I get it. I'm not going to throw the towel in lol. I can use my note 9 until I source a win10 unit.


----------



## Ripper2860

I believe Linux is supported if that is something you're keen to try.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Even more interesting. I can't even get my Note 9 via OTG using UAPP to even work with this dac. I'm pretty sure my phone isn't obsolete like win7. Lol. 
I read on the site that android is supposed to work.


----------



## jnak00

My Pixel 4XL works with the Bifrost 2 over USB. Android can be funny about what works and what doesn't, depending on the device.  Does your Note work with other DACs?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Worked perfectly with every previous dac since I've had the phone. Mimby., Airist r2r, Denafrips Ares. 


jnak00 said:


> My Pixel 4XL works with the Bifrost 2 over USB. Android can be funny about what works and what doesn't, depending on the device.  Does your Note work with other DACs?


----------



## Smoothstereo

Guidostrunk said:


> Worked perfectly with every previous dac since I've had the phone. Mimby., Airist r2r, Denafrips Ares.


Now you got me worried. I am awaiting my Bifrost 2 to arrive which I was planning on pairing it with my Samsung S7 edge phone.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's really strange. Android otg has always worked for me with any dac. Even my old note 3 worked lol. 
I can tell you this. I just bought a new laptop with windows 10 and if there's any connection issues I'll totally be done with schiit dacs. I'm already regretting making the move from my Ares. 
The unison usb has more cons than pros so far imo. 


Smoothstereo said:


> Now you got me worried. I am awaiting my Bifrost 2 to arrive which I was planning on pairing it with my Samsung S7 edge phone.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 13, 2021)

Don't know if this is related, but Unison USB requires power over USB so if your Android device cannot deliver +5v power over USB or if the USB cable has +5v line neutered, it will not work.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Pretty spooky you posted this. I was looking into a powered hub just to see if that was the culprit lol. It could very well be that my phone isn't delivering the needed 5v. 
I'm just impatient and really want to hear this dac. Lol. 
Phone won't work. Current laptop won't work. New laptop won't be here until Monday. 😂 
Even if I did get it working I couldn't even properly judge is coz Mjolnir 2 is being cap modded and I was going to use my Loxjie P20 to hold me over. 
Now I'm reduced to the phone jack on my phone 😓



Ripper2860 said:


> Don't know if this is related, but Unison USB requires power over USB so if your Andoid device cannot deliver +5v power over USB or if the USB cable has +5v line neutered, it will not work.


----------



## scottshields

Guidostrunk said:


> Pretty spooky you posted this. I was looking into a powered hub just to see if that was the culprit lol. It could very well be that my phone isn't delivering the needed 5v.
> I'm just impatient and really want to hear this dac. Lol.
> Phone won't work. Current laptop won't work. New laptop won't be here until Monday. 😂
> Even if I did get it working I couldn't even properly judge is coz Mjolnir 2 is being cap modded and I was going to use my Loxjie P20 to hold me over.
> Now I'm reduced to the phone jack on my phone 😓


Be confident it will work with Windows 10, and it does not require a driver which is awesome.  No fuss just plug it in and it works just fine.  I'm not had a single issue with mine.  I also just confirmed that my Galaxy Note 10 will not power the BF2's usb card that this won't work from my phone either.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the reply bro. I've settled myself down. Waiting is the worst part of this hobby. Lol.
I did try my wife's S10 and it wouldn't work either. So , Monday will be the day the laptop arrives and I'll finally get to hear it. Knowing my luck something will happen in shipping to delay it 😂


scottshields said:


> Be confident it will work with Windows 10, and it does not require a driver which is awesome.  No fuss just plug it in and it works just fine.  I'm not had a single issue with mine.  I also just confirmed that my Galaxy Note 10 will not power the BF2's usb card that this won't work from my phone either.


----------



## bigjako

I had similar situations but solved it ultimately with a powered USB, but just in case - is it possible you’re using a power-only cable (for charging) rather than a data and power cable?


----------



## Shane D

bigjako said:


> I had similar situations but solved it ultimately with a powered USB, but just in case - is it possible you’re using a power-only cable (for charging) rather than a data and power cable?



Interesting as I thought all the "printer cables" were data only.


----------



## Shane D

Well I used my BF2 for a week with a few different headphones. After a week I was enjoying my music as usual.

Yesterday I went back to my SMSL SU-8. It did sound a little thinner, a little less full. It really depended on the music. Bassier stuff sounded fuller/thicker.
One specific example was a Dido song called White Flag. With the BF2 you could her drawing breath between the verses.

Overall, the difference between the two DAC’s is subtle, to me. Is it an improvement? Yes. It it worth $1,135.00Cdn? Not to me.
For that kind of money, I am used to having my world rocked. As in Grado GH2, Focal Elex, CFA Cascade, Liquid Platinum and a used Vio V220.

Since Schiit is in a foreign country and has a restocking fee, return is not an option. I could sell it privately, but why throw away two hundred bucks.

In closing, it is an improvement, but a very subtle one. It will NOT give you the rush or ear to ear grin of discovering a very good new amp or HP. But over time you will notice an improvement.

It was a good time for me to do this as I am pretty content with the rest of my gear right now. I personally wouldn’t stretch my budget for a DAC upgrade.

Next week I will start running all my headphones through the new system. Looking forward to it.


----------



## JWahl (Feb 14, 2021)

Sean_MR said:


> If anyone is interested, I posted my review of the Bifrost 2.  I know it's far from a new product anymore, but if anyone was still deciding and wanted another perspective, maybe mine can help.  Disclaimer though, it is a _very_ non-conventional review. But there were no reviews for the product on the site yet so I figured what the heck. Anyways, it's not for everyone but I think for a few select people it might be very helpful
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews



Hi.  I received a Bifrost 2 and I think I am experiencing the same problem.  No sound at first and couldn't figure out why after some troubleshooting steps.  Left for about 10 minutes and came back and heard a crackling/arcing sound coming from it with the chassis very warm to the touch, warmer than my Soloist 3X at full warm-up.  FWIW, I was a military electronics technician for 10 years and I'm in my senior year of an electrical engineering degree, so I opened the chassis to investigate.  The heat and smell seems to be originating from the power transformer.  The transformer (especially the core) was painfully hot to the touch and smelled like burning plastic.  My immediate suspicion is a transformer insulation failure that's causing windings to short and arc internally.  I'm going to notify Schiit immediately to they can hopefully narrow down the problem further and contact their supplier if it is indeed a transformer fault.  Alternatively, there could be something else shorted and causing the transformer to draw too much current, but the heat and smell is definitely coming from the power transformer.  It's really a bummer because the Modius worked flawlessly for me and I was really looking forward to trying the Bifrost 2.  The fact that Modius worked so well (from USB power) also makes me further suspect a power transformer QC issue.  Just glancing at what I'm able to see, I don't see any glaring solder-quality issue from the board assembler.


----------



## theveterans

Shane D said:


> Well I used my BF2 for a week with a few different headphones. After a week I was enjoying my music as usual.
> 
> Yesterday I went back to my SMSL SU-8. It did sound a little thinner, a little less full. It really depended on the music. Bassier stuff sounded fuller/thicker.
> One specific example was a Dido song called White Flag. With the BF2 you could her drawing breath between the verses.
> ...



The delta in sound will always follow that HP > Amp > DAC. What makes a DAC upgrade worth it in the long run is the enjoyment factor that slowly grows over time despite changing the sound ever so slightly. What's interesting is that even if you have a TOTL headphone and a great amp, a proper DAC upgrade helps cure that "I'm still missing something feeling" during extended listening sessions. IMO A DAC can sometimes make or break your "one more song before I go to bed" feeling even if the actual change in sound is very subtle from another DAC


----------



## Shane D

Not sure how BF2 related it is but today was a great music day with: Laptop to BF2 to MAD Ear+ HDII tube amp to Grado GH2's.

Sweet, sweet music.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So my laptop arrived today and I'm finally able to hear the BF2. My Mjolnir 2 is out being cap modded so I'm using my completely underrated modded Loxjie P20. I've used this with my Denafrips Ares before so just a quick and dirty on the difference. 

I'm extremely happy at this point with the BF2. The Ares sounds sleepy/hazy in comparison. The imaging and blackground on the BF2 is ridiculous! The pause between songs has me staring at my rig wondering if it is even playing lol. There's other reviews and whatnot that stated that you sacrifice soundstage and layering from the Ares. I'm not hearing that at all. The BF2 starts and stops on a dime. There's no smear or decay clutter. 

Bass on the BF2 is leagues above the Ares. It's tight, accurate, and properly placed in the stage. 

I'll follow up when I get the Mule back. Lol.


----------



## Shane D

Guidostrunk said:


> So my laptop arrived today and I'm finally able to hear the BF2. My Mjolnir 2 is out being cap modded so I'm using my completely underrated modded Loxjie P20. I've used this with my Denafrips Ares before so just a quick and dirty on the difference.
> 
> I'm extremely happy at this point with the BF2. The Ares sounds sleepy/hazy in comparison. The imaging and blackground on the BF2 is ridiculous! The pause between songs has me staring at my rig wondering if it is even playing lol. There's other reviews and whatnot that stated that you sacrifice soundstage and layering from the Ares. I'm not hearing that at all. The BF2 starts and stops on a dime. There's no smear or decay clutter.
> 
> ...



Glad it's working out for you. I hooked mine up to my tube amp yesterday and it sounded really good. Today I inserted the Schiit Loki into the chain. I wanted to get a little more bass into my Grado's.


----------



## Ripper2860

Guidostrunk said:


> So my laptop arrived today and I'm finally able to hear the BF2. My Mjolnir 2 is out being cap modded so I'm using my completely underrated modded Loxjie P20. I've used this with my Denafrips Ares before so just a quick and dirty on the difference.
> 
> I'm extremely happy at this point with the BF2. The Ares sounds sleepy/hazy in comparison. The imaging and blackground on the BF2 is ridiculous! The pause between songs has me staring at my rig wondering if it is even playing lol. There's other reviews and whatnot that stated that you sacrifice soundstage and layering from the Ares. I'm not hearing that at all. The BF2 starts and stops on a dime. There's no smear or decay clutter.
> 
> ...



So it was worth it and you're keeping it or are you pumping it up ahead of selling it?


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's not going anywhere! Lol. This thing f.k.n glows😂😂😂


Ripper2860 said:


> So it was worth it and you're keeping it or are you pumping it up ahead of selling it?


----------



## hikaru12

Hi guys,

Trying to decide what my next logical upgrade is from the BF2. I've had the Yggy GS and Gumby and the BF2 is detailed, very smooth but they sound rather flat. Not D/S flat but not as dynamic as I'd hoped. I'm wondering if the issue is because I'm running them from SE. I plan on pairing my next DAC with a tube amp so having SE outputs that are gimped is going to be a problem. I'm thinking of getting the Topping D90 as it's said to be very detailed and pairing it with a nice tube amp like the DecWare or BHC would allow me to circumvent it's downfalls (small soundstage, flat sound, brighter leanings, etc.) Does anyone want to chime in? At this point pairing a R2R or multibit DAC with a tube amp that I plan to tune warm doesn't seem to make much sense to me as it's be overly congested. Yggy A2 is tuned like the BF2, the Gumby was nice but seems to only sound its best from balanced, and the Amethyst/Metrum offerings might be too warm to mix with a warm amp.


----------



## bigjako

D90 seems to the high-quality polar opposite of the BF2, so it's going from dark to light.  I'm tempted to do that because I've heard the D90 plays well with the Staxen's strengths but I'm afraid to go too much in that direction.  I've been hearing a lot of good talk about the new Soekris 2541 on the other forum, that it is still R2R but has filters and doesn't feel heavy (ie, it could still pair well with tube amps).  RME ADI may also give you a more balanced sound.


----------



## hikaru12

bigjako said:


> D90 seems to the high-quality polar opposite of the BF2, so it's going from dark to light.  I'm tempted to do that because I've heard the D90 plays well with the Staxen's strengths but I'm afraid to go too much in that direction.  I've been hearing a lot of good talk about the new Soekris 2541 on the other forum, that it is still R2R but has filters and doesn't feel heavy (ie, it could still pair well with tube amps).  RME ADI may also give you a more balanced sound.



My local dealer carries RME but it's usage seems very complicated and I feel like I wouldn't gain any benefit from upgrading from the BF2 other than it's equalizer. I'll look into the Soekris - heard great things about them, very detailed well priced DACs. I'll also look into Chord since they seem to prefer SE. 

I figure a bright/neutral DAC with a warm tube amp would be the most balanced setup so far.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Just got my BF2 and can confirm that it doesn't work well with my Android phones like Samsung S7 edge and S10+. These same phones work flawlessly with Marantz DAC1 and Ifi micro idsd Black Label. However, I was able to make it work if I plug my cell phone into a usb hub switch/adapter with power plug to outlet.

Anyone using similar phones as source  with powered USB hub switch? Wondering if a nicer one will be better or not for sound quality.


----------



## Shane D

Smoothstereo said:


> Just got my BF2 and can confirm that it doesn't work well with my Android phones like Samsung S7 edge and S10+. These same phones work flawlessly with Marantz DAC1 and Ifi micro idsd Black Label. However, I was able to make it work if I plug my cell phone into a usb hub switch/adapter with power plug to outlet.
> 
> Anyone using similar phones as source  with powered USB hub switch? Wondering if a nicer one will be better or not for sound quality.



The BF2 wants some power behind its USB. My Sony DAP didn't cut it either. Had to input a laptop into my living room system. It does give me more flexibility with playback though, but takes up a lot of space.


----------



## Sean_MR

JWahl said:


> Hi.  I received a Bifrost 2 and I think I am experiencing the same problem.  No sound at first and couldn't figure out why after some troubleshooting steps.  Left for about 10 minutes and came back and heard a crackling/arcing sound coming from it with the chassis very warm to the touch, warmer than my Soloist 3X at full warm-up.  FWIW, I was a military electronics technician for 10 years and I'm in my senior year of an electrical engineering degree, so I opened the chassis to investigate.  The heat and smell seems to be originating from the power transformer.  The transformer (especially the core) was painfully hot to the touch and smelled like burning plastic.  My immediate suspicion is a transformer insulation failure that's causing windings to short and arc internally.  I'm going to notify Schiit immediately to they can hopefully narrow down the problem further and contact their supplier if it is indeed a transformer fault.  Alternatively, there could be something else shorted and causing the transformer to draw too much current, but the heat and smell is definitely coming from the power transformer.  It's really a bummer because the Modius worked flawlessly for me and I was really looking forward to trying the Bifrost 2.  The fact that Modius worked so well (from USB power) also makes me further suspect a power transformer QC issue.  Just glancing at what I'm able to see, I don't see any glaring solder-quality issue from the board assembler.



That’s such a shame   It sounds so good, but I honestly don’t think I’ll ever buy one again (or maybe even any Schiit product) because of these problems.  Some of that technical jargon flew over my head haha, but I think we had similar problems.  Mine was also scorching hot to the touch (just feeling the outside), and the location of my smoke/burning smell also seemed to originate from the power plug area.  I had a friend who’s much more knowledgeable than me check mine out, and he said he was thought it was a defective analog board though.  Schiit also wrote “replaced analog board” on my repair note when they shipped it back.  But your symptoms sound so identical, maybe the 2 problems are related/co-inducing?  I’m not sure, but either way it stinks.


----------



## JWahl

Sean_MR said:


> That’s such a shame   It sounds so good, but I honestly don’t think I’ll ever buy one again (or maybe even any Schiit product) because of these problems.  Some of that technical jargon flew over my head haha, but I think we had similar problems.  Mine was also scorching hot to the touch (just feeling the outside), and the location of my smoke/burning smell also seemed to originate from the power plug area.  I had a friend who’s much more knowledgeable than me check mine out, and he said he was thought it was a defective analog board though.  Schiit also wrote “replaced analog board” on my repair note when they shipped it back.  But your symptoms sound so identical, maybe the 2 problems are related/co-inducing?  I’m not sure, but either way it stinks.



It could very well be another issue (like the analog board) that's causing an excessive power draw through the transformer.  One thing I did notice is that the computer would recognize the Unison USB while it was on, but there was no sound output.  I'm guessing the protection circuitry (properly) detected a fault condition since I never heard any relay clicking to indicate that the output was engaged.  I'm going to have them replace it just because I at least want to try it out and hear it to satiate my curiousity, and I'll cross my fingers on this next one. I've owned several Schiit products in the past and, until now, I've thankfully never run into any QC issues. We'll see how the next one goes.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Smoothstereo said:


> Just got my BF2 and can confirm that it doesn't work well with my Android phones like Samsung S7 edge and S10+. These same phones work flawlessly with Marantz DAC1 and Ifi micro idsd Black Label. However, I was able to make it work if I plug my cell phone into a usb hub switch/adapter with power plug to outlet.
> 
> Anyone using similar phones as source  with powered USB hub switch? Wondering if a nicer one will be better or not for sound quality.


Wanted to reply to my own post. After fiddling around with my Samsung S7 edge, I changed the music app USB Audio Player Pro settings to NOT upsample and just play my ripped CD wav files in 44.1khz, I was able to get the Bifrost2 work. No more static or intermittent cut outs. So all good now. Hopefully this might help others in the same boat as me.


----------



## cgb3

hikaru12 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Trying to decide what my next logical upgrade is from the BF2. I've had the Yggy GS and Gumby and the BF2 is detailed, very smooth but they sound rather flat. Not D/S flat but not as dynamic as I'd hoped. I'm wondering if the issue is because I'm running them from SE. I plan on pairing my next DAC with a tube amp so having SE outputs that are gimped is going to be a problem. I'm thinking of getting the Topping D90 as it's said to be very detailed and pairing it with a nice tube amp like the DecWare or BHC would allow me to circumvent it's downfalls (small soundstage, flat sound, brighter leanings, etc.) Does anyone want to chime in? At this point pairing a R2R or multibit DAC with a tube amp that I plan to tune warm doesn't seem to make much sense to me as it's be overly congested. Yggy A2 is tuned like the BF2, the Gumby was nice but seems to only sound its best from balanced, and the Amethyst/Metrum offerings might be too warm to mix with a warm amp.


I expected to purchase a Bifrost 2 to replace my Modius in the near therm, but I'm holding off.

The Modius>Jot 2/Lyr 3 I'm listening to now sound fantastic.

I expect Schiit to either renew Bifrost 2, or create a new DAC in the 4-7 hundred range, in the near future.

I'm waiting 'till July to choose.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Does BF2 benefit from being left on for 2 days like the Gumby or Yggy?


----------



## Shane D

cgb3 said:


> I expected to purchase a Bifrost 2 to replace my Modius in the near therm, but I'm holding off.
> 
> The Modius>Jot 2/Lyr 3 I'm listening to now sound fantastic.
> 
> ...



Can't see the BF2 being updated or replaced any time soon. And $400 to $700 is death valley for DAC's.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mine has been on 24/7. I leave all my dacs on. I even leave my amps on lol. 
Seems they take a bit to get rolling to there potential when starting from off and cold.  


Smoothstereo said:


> Does BF2 benefit from being left on for 2 days like the Gumby or Yggy?


----------



## cgb3

Shane D said:


> Can't see the BF2 being updated or replaced any time soon. And $400 to $700 is death valley for DAC's.


See (one of the first) QA videos from Schiit in 2021 featuring Mike Moffat. Jason Stoddard describes 2021 as being a "golden age of digital electronics".

New DAC's? Maybe, maybe not. I can wait till mid summer, and probably longer. I won't predict at what price point, but I guarantee Schiit introduces a new/refreshed DAC this year.

You may be interested: Schiit Bifrost 2 (at $700) is one of the best selling DAC's in it's price range.


----------



## Shane D

cgb3 said:


> See (one of the first) QA videos from Schiit in 2021 featuring Mike Moffat. Jason Stoddard describes 2021 as being a "golden age of digital electronics".
> 
> New DAC's? Maybe, maybe not. I can wait till mid summer, and probably longer. I won't predict at what price point, but I guarantee Schiit introduces a new/refreshed DAC this year.
> 
> You may be interested: Schiit Bifrost 2 (at $700) is one of the best selling DAC's in it's price range.



I know it is. I bought one a few weeks ago.

They will not replace the BF2 this quick.

There may well be a new DAC introduced this year between the Modius and the BF2. The $300 to $700 market is wide open.
There are lots of great cheap DAC's and lots of great expensive DAC's, but not much in the middle.

Happy hunting.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 16, 2021)

If I had to guess, it would be a new Gungnir (Gumby).


----------



## Odin412

Smoothstereo said:


> Does BF2 benefit from being left on for 2 days like the Gumby or Yggy?



Yes. I would argue that the Schiit multibit DACs sound better if left on all the time.


----------



## Shane D

Ripper2860 said:


> If I had to guess, it would be a new Gungnir (Gumby).


Makes sense. Probably due for an update.


----------



## Ripper2860

If the AKM chipset availability becomes an issue - then a new DS DAC could be rolled into the line-up or just a retrofit to existing DS line.


----------



## Neweymatt

Shane D said:


> I know it is. I bought one a few weeks ago.
> 
> They will not replace the BF2 this quick.
> 
> ...


Agree 100%, BF2 is still very young in its product lifecycle, no chance of a BF3 for many years to come if ever.  Look at the start date of this thread, it’s only 18 months ago...
Like it’s predecessor, BF2 is a modular DAC that you can upgrade in the future, but so far Schiit haven’t released any new cards for it.

I recall from my research before buying BF2, that BF1 was also meant to be an 'evergreen' chassis that you could continue to upgrade, but got to a point where that was no longer possible with the innovations Schiit wanted to add, so that’s why BF2 exists.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Smoothstereo said:


> Wanted to reply to my own post. After fiddling around with my Samsung S7 edge, I changed the music app USB Audio Player Pro settings to NOT upsample and just play my ripped CD wav files in 44.1khz, I was able to get the Bifrost2 work. No more static or intermittent cut outs. So all good now. Hopefully this might help others in the same boat as me.


So I went back to my original upsampling setting on USB Audio Player Pro at 176.4 khz and the BF2 is playing nice this time. So not sure what happened when I first tried this pairing. But all is good in the hood.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Is everyone else getting relay clicking when songs change. I'm streaming Tidal and every 2 to 4 songs i hear the relay click inside the BF2. 
Makes me nervous lol. Hopefully the relays are resilient and won't fail.


----------



## shafat777

Guidostrunk said:


> Is everyone else getting relay clicking when songs change. I'm streaming Tidal and every 2 to 4 songs i hear the relay click inside the BF2.
> Makes me nervous lol. Hopefully the relays are resilient and won't fail.


Yessir. I get it too. I think it's when it switches from 44khz to 48khz and vice versa and so on. I asked around in this forum and one member said it's perfectly normal


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2021)

Happens when bitrate and sample rate change. To me it's only annoying on playlists, etc, where varying songs /tracks can change bitrate and  sample rate frequently.  I set Tidal (and Qobuz) to CD quality only (HiFi?) and also adjust my Windows sound settings to 44.1/16 and the switching stops.

As designed and wouldn't have a 5 year warranty if it wasn't designed to be reliable.


----------



## Shane D

I have read about this lots, but it is not happening with my music? My source is from iTunes on my laptop. It is a mix of ALAC, AAC and MP3 files.


----------



## Neweymatt (Feb 17, 2021)

Shane D said:


> I have read about this lots, but it is not happening with my music? My source is from iTunes on my laptop. It is a mix of ALAC, AAC and MP3 files.


Yeah, it never happens for me with Apple Music either, just Tidal, and when Tidal's System Output is set to "Schiit Bifrost 2 Unison USB". 

The clicking is Tidal and the BF2 negotiating changes in bitrate.  A bit disconcerting when you first hear it, but completely normal and something you soon forget about.

Sometimes I'll switch Tidal Sound Output to "System Controlled", which allows the excellent SoundSource app to merge two or more apps' sound into the sound output, handy for Zoom meetings, Videos etc. when you want to hear your tunes in the background.  I don't hear the BF2 clicking when set this way, I assume because SoundSource is not changing bitrate output.

Edit: Actually, @Shane D , if you want to hear this on your Mac with iTunes/Apple Music, open Audio Midi Setup, select the Bifrost, and change the bitrates.  If you're using your Cascade, you might not hear it, but you will with the LCD-2C..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Are you using exclusive mode by chance? When I hit that option I was shocked by how open the music became. Lol. 


Ripper2860 said:


> Happens when bitrate and sample rate change. To me it's only annoying on playlists, etc, where varying songs /tracks can change bitrate and  sample rate frequently.  I set Tidal (and Qobuz) to CD quality only (HiFi?) and also adjust my Windows sound settings to 44.1/16 and the switching stops.
> 
> As designed and wouldn't have a 5 year warranty if it wasn't designed to be reliable.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes.  WASAPI Exclusive mode.  It's bitperfect. That's why BF2 is switching, otherwise Windows would resample to the preset bitrate/depth and there would be no switching with Tidal or other sources..


----------



## Guidostrunk

Now don't laugh. WASAPI? Yeah really lol. I only hit the exclusive mode in the Tidal app. 
Should I download WASAPI?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Oh boy. 🤦‍♂️ never mind.


----------



## Shane D (Feb 17, 2021)

Neweymatt said:


> Yeah, it never happens for me with Apple Music either, just Tidal, and when Tidal's System Output is set to "Schiit Bifrost 2 Unison USB".
> 
> The clicking is Tidal and the BF2 negotiating changes in bitrate.  A bit disconcerting when you first hear it, but completely normal and something you soon forget about.
> 
> ...



I recently changed the bit rate to 24bit at 192,000Hz. I don't hear any sounds with any headphones or any amp.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Oh boy. 🤦‍♂️ never mind.



Lol!  

That's the new bitperfect Win10 audio engine.  Built-in.  Windows Audio Sound API.  No need to download, if you've selected exclusive mode in your app, it is using it.


----------



## Neweymatt

Shane D said:


> I gently changed the bit rate to 24bit at 192,000Hz. I don't hear any sounds with any headphones or any amp.


Hmmm, maybe SoundSource was doing more than I thought.  I quit the app, and sound disappeared from the BF2 as well, coming from MBP speakers instead.  In Audio Midi setup, right click on the Schiit Bifrost 2 Unison USB and select Use this Device for Sound Output, sound is now coming through BF2/Amp again...


----------



## kkrazik2008

Neweymatt said:


> Hmmm, maybe SoundSource was doing more than I thought.  I quit the app, and sound disappeared from the BF2 as well, coming from MBP speakers instead.  In Audio Midi setup, right click on the Schiit Bifrost 2 Unison USB and select Use this Device for Sound Output, sound is now coming through BF2/Amp again...


@Shane D it only clicks when the bit rate changes, changing your audio output in Audio/MIDI will not demonstrate the clocks as you will have a;l your audio output at 24 bit, rather than 16 bit.


----------



## Shane D

kkrazik2008 said:


> @Shane D it only clicks when the bit rate changes, changing your audio output in Audio/MIDI will not demonstrate the clocks as you will have a;l your audio output at 24 bit, rather than 16 bit.



Cool. I have no interest in hearing clicks every time it goes from ALAC to AAC.


----------



## Guidostrunk

So... should I switch WASAPI to 16/44.1(cd quality)? Even if I'm using exclusive mode in Tidal?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 17, 2021)

Personal preference.  I did it because when Tidal released control, Windows would reset the bitrate and BF2 would click. When Tidal retakes control it would click again if track's bitrate was different than Windows bitrate.  I just set both Tidal and Windows  to play 44.1 so they always match.


----------



## cgb3

Shane D said:


> I recently changed the bit rate to 24bit at 192,000Hz. I don't hear any sounds with any headphones or any amp.


I've used this setting for several years, for the same reason. No noise.

As an aside: There's damn few tunes that exceed that quality, and no (0) human ears that can hear a difference.


----------



## kkrazik2008

cgb3 said:


> I've used this setting for several years, for the same reason. No noise.
> 
> As an aside: There's damn few tunes that exceed that quality, and no (0) human ears that can hear a difference.


The click occurs when the track changes from say 16 bit to 24 bit, if there is no change in bit rate there will be no click.  So if your files are all 16 bit, doesn’t matter if they are ALAC, AAC, or FLAC, there will be no clicking sound.
https://www.schiit.com/guides/dac-problems


----------



## ckhirnigs113

With Unison, has anyone noticed a difference using their iPhone with the CCK adapter as the source vs a computer? I really like the convenience of the phone as a source, but I could dust off my old laptop if it would improve the sound in any way.

I assume something equivalent to “exclusive mode” doesn’t exist on the iOS Tidal app, but is there anything I can do to improve the sound quality? Right now I just flip the “silent mode” switch on my iPhone to prevent notifications interrupting the music playback.


----------



## Neweymatt

ckhirnigs113 said:


> With Unison, has anyone noticed a difference using their iPhone with the CCK adapter as the source vs a computer? I really like the convenience of the phone as a source, but I could dust off my old laptop if it would improve the sound in any way.
> 
> I assume something equivalent to “exclusive mode” doesn’t exist on the iOS Tidal app, but is there anything I can do to improve the sound quality? Right now I just flip the “silent mode” switch on my iPhone to prevent notifications interrupting the music playback.


I don’t think there’s much in it between using iPhone as source vs. MBP, but then again I haven’t really used the phone much. One huge advantage of using just about anything other than an iPhone is the ability to EQ, which is fairly gimped on iOS. 

I do plan to test out a new pair of IEMs this weekend with my BF2/Asgard3, iPhone as a source will be interesting to compare.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Neweymatt said:


> I don’t think there’s much in it between using iPhone as source vs. MBP, but then again I haven’t really used the phone much. One huge advantage of using just about anything other than an iPhone is the ability to EQ, which is fairly gimped on iOS.
> 
> I do plan to test out a new pair of IEMs this weekend with my BF2/Asgard3, iPhone as a source will be interesting to compare.


I personally don't really ever use software EQ, so this is not a big deal to me. I do have a Schiit Loki that I use with certain headphones to make some small tweaks.


----------



## mbritt (Feb 20, 2021)

ckhirnigs113 said:


> With Unison, has anyone noticed a difference using their iPhone with the CCK adapter as the source vs a computer? I really like the convenience of the phone as a source, but I could dust off my old laptop if it would improve the sound in any way.
> 
> I assume something equivalent to “exclusive mode” doesn’t exist on the iOS Tidal app, but is there anything I can do to improve the sound quality? Right now I just flip the “silent mode” switch on my iPhone to prevent notifications interrupting the music playback.


I use an iPhone 6s+ via CCK to Bifrost 2/Asgard 3 and its a great digital transport.  I mostly use it as a Roon endpoint with lots of options for EQ if needed.  During a recent internet outage I fell back to playing local through the Onkyo HF player.  It will send FLAC and high resolution files out the iPhone usb and it's a better sounding player than iTunes.  I often put the phone into Airplane mode but then switch WiFi on.  Post pandemic I'll update my phone and make this one a stripped down iPod.  Oh, and you can EQ from Onkyo HF as well.


----------



## TheRealDz

I really like the Onkyo player - it definitely sounds better than iTunes through an old iPhone that I use as my desktop source.  It is one of the few apps that I have ever spent money on, for premium features.  I also use the Onkyo player on my main phone - an android (Xperia 1mk2).  From what I can tell, the upscaling sounds better.  That said:

1) I can't get the Onkyo player via the iPhone to pass EQ settings through to my DACs 

2) I realized that although digital bits are digital and all, my music sounds way better through my main Windows pc rig vs iPhone 

3) So I have now moved to an old Surface tablet, and it sounds better than the iPhone too.  More detailed and more body - night and day difference, and I don't know why 

4) Since there is no Onkyo player for windows, I used iTunes.  But then I tried Sony Music Center app, and it sounded better still.  I swear the upscaling plus Sony's DSEE algorithm sounds even better yet - it is subtle, but brings back just a touch more atmosphere without any harshness. 

5)  My Chord Hugo does not have any adjustable filter settings, but my Smsl su-8v2 does.  My homework is to see how the different filters may interact with Sony DSEE... 



mbritt said:


> I use an iPhone 6s+ via CCK to Bifrost 2/Asgard 3 and its a great digital transport.  I mostly use it as a Roon endpoint with lots of options for EQ if needed.  During a recent internet outage I fell back to playing local through the Onkyo HF player.  It will send FLAC and high resolution files out the iPhone usb and it's a better sounding player than iTunes.  I often put the phone into Airplane mode but then switch WiFi on.  Post pandemic I'll update my phone and make this one a stripped down iPod.  Oh, and you can EQ from Onkyo HF as well.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

I'm using the Tidal app on my iPhone for all my music streaming. I have the Tidal Desktop App on my Windows PC. I'm going to try and do some comparisons using some music I'm very familiar with to see if I can notice a difference. 

And now back on topic!


----------



## MRHiFiReviews (Feb 21, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Trying to decide what my next logical upgrade is from the BF2. I've had the Yggy GS and Gumby and the BF2 is detailed, very smooth but they sound rather flat. Not D/S flat but not as dynamic as I'd hoped. I'm wondering if the issue is because I'm running them from SE. I plan on pairing my next DAC with a tube amp so having SE outputs that are gimped is going to be a problem. I'm thinking of getting the Topping D90 as it's said to be very detailed and pairing it with a nice tube amp like the DecWare or BHC would allow me to circumvent it's downfalls (small soundstage, flat sound, brighter leanings, etc.) Does anyone want to chime in? At this point pairing a R2R or multibit DAC with a tube amp that I plan to tune warm doesn't seem to make much sense to me as it's be overly congested. Yggy A2 is tuned like the BF2, the Gumby was nice but seems to only sound its best from balanced, and the Amethyst/Metrum offerings might be too warm to mix with a warm amp.


I can give you some impressions this week I have the BF2, D90, BHC, MOGWAI OG, Pendant and a Matrix i3Pro incoming...


----------



## scottshields (Feb 21, 2021)

Curious about how many leave their BF2 on all the time?  I'm sure many have likely seen this:



For any who've tried turning the BF2 on/off vs leaving on I'd love to hear thoughts you'd be willing to share around if and what the sonic differences may be?  I won't lead the witness with my thoughts here first.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 21, 2021)

I leave my 2 BF2s on 24x7, Texas power grid permitting.  Honestly, I think a 20 minute warmup is all that is required to get the BF2 electronics nice and toasty for optimal performance.  In my case, it's how my gear is situated making the rear power switch difficult to access that causes me to leave it on at all times.

Schiit has stated previously that Gumby and Yggy are their only DACs that benefit sonically from extended power on / warmup.

(I'm not gonna beat the power switch location dead horse.)


----------



## Guidostrunk

24/7 here. I even leave my amps on 24/7. The Mjolnir 2 takes forever to get to optimal performance.


----------



## Tralfaz

Another owner who leaves the BF2 on all the time.  Sometimes I think it makes a difference sonically but mostly I do it because it's a pain to shut off and turn on because of the location of the power switch.


----------



## scottshields

Tralfaz said:


> Another owner who leaves the BF2 on all the time.  Sometimes I think it makes a difference sonically but mostly I do it because it's a pain to shut off and turn on because of the location of the power switch.


I've started leaving mine all all the time too and It seems like the bass has improved to my ears.  I have a Eurforia but the tubes should already have burned in.  Perhaps it's just my looking for a difference.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tubes?


----------



## scottshields

Guidostrunk said:


> Tubes?


Sorry I meant to convey that while I have a tube amp that is sourced from a BF2 that the tubes should be fully burned it at this point to minimize that as the factor for the change in sonics I felt I observed from the BF2


----------



## Neweymatt

scottshields said:


> Curious about how many leave their BF2 on all the time?  I'm sure many have likely seen this:
> 
> 
> 
> For any who've tried turning the BF2 on/off vs leaving on I'd love to hear thoughts you'd be willing to share around if and what the sonic differences may be?  I won't lead the witness with my thoughts here first.



Hmmm, well I've been switching the BF2 on each morning, and then off at the end of the day, where it is on my desk its no problem to reach the switch.  I don't think it needs much "warm up time", maybe 5-10 minutes?  if I do listen to it immediately, it can sometimes sound a bit "glassy" or "grainy".

Might just leave it on 24/7 for now, after hearing PS Audio thoughts and recommendations.  Will keep an eye on the electricity bill...


----------



## Neweymatt

TheRealDz said:


> 2) I realized that although digital bits are digital and all, my music sounds way better through my main Windows pc rig vs iPhone


Weird, I noticed similar comparing iPhone->CCK->BF2 playing the same Tidal tracks as MBP->BF2.  

No idea why the laptop sounds better, more detailed, and with deeper bass, but it definitely does.  Is the CCK at fault here maybe?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Neweymatt said:


> Weird, I noticed similar comparing iPhone->CCK->BF2 playing the same Tidal tracks as MBP->BF2.
> 
> No idea why the laptop sounds better, more detailed, and with deeper bass, but it definitely does.  Is the CCK at fault here maybe?


I use android and for me my laptop sounds better. For the longest time I used a phone and tried a laptop we had laying around a few years ago. Never looked back. 
It was and still is always said that pc/laptop is too noisy via USB. 
Regardless, it still sounds better than my phone no matter what app I use or bit perfect player.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Sounds like the consensus is that phones are not as good as computers as a source. I wonder how much improvement comes with going to a dedicated streamer.


----------



## Smoothstereo

What audio player are folks using on their Windows 10 pc/laptop with BF2? If pc/laptops are better than using Android phone, i might need to switch to my laptop. 

Just thought it was more convenient with Android phones and thought sound was on par compared to pcs/laptops.


----------



## Neweymatt

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Sounds like the consensus is that phones are not as good as computers as a source. I wonder how much improvement comes with going to a dedicated streamer.


Yes, that is a very good question, wonder if anyone is using a dedicated streamer like Allo DigiOne or pi2AES with Bifrost?  

Darko seems to rate the former, and the latter gets raves on A Nother Forum....

I'd be quite happy to tinker with an RPi based box like this, but only if it's going to deliver noticeable SQ improvement over what I have already with Unison USB from the MacBookPro.


----------



## nasty nate

Neweymatt said:


> Yes, that is a very good question, wonder if anyone is using a dedicated streamer like Allo DigiOne or pi2AES with Bifrost?
> 
> Darko seems to rate the former, and the latter gets raves on A Nother Forum....
> 
> I'd be quite happy to tinker with an RPi based box like this, but only if it's going to deliver noticeable SQ improvement over what I have already with Unison USB from the MacBookPro.



I was curious about this as well since I use my MBP as my source - although I'm holding out for the Urd - which as I understand it, closes the Unison USB Loop; could mean improvements in SQ...


----------



## Tralfaz

Neweymatt said:


> Yes, that is a very good question, wonder if anyone is using a dedicated streamer like Allo DigiOne or pi2AES with Bifrost?
> 
> Darko seems to rate the former, and the latter gets raves on A Nother Forum....
> 
> I'd be quite happy to tinker with an RPi based box like this, but only if it's going to deliver noticeable SQ improvement over what I have already with Unison USB from the MacBookPro.



I'm feeding my BF2 from the USB output of my 2017 iMac and found that my choice of playback software made a big difference.  I originally used iTunes/Apple Music but am now using Audirvana and vastly prefer it to the app that comes with MacOS.  I think they still offer a free 30 day trial so you might want to try it.

An observation on the BF2: One of its strengths is its  ability to let me follow individual instruments and voices in complex music while keeping the overall scale of the piece intact.  My Bimby with Gen 5 was good at this but the BF2 is even better.  While it may not be to everyone's taste, the combination of the Lyr 3 and the Bifrost 2 really works for me.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tralfaz said:


> I'm feeding my BF2 from the USB output of my 2017 iMac and found that my choice of playback software made a big difference.  I originally used iTunes/Apple Music but am now using Audirvana and vastly prefer it to the app that comes with MacOS.  I think they still offer a free 30 day trial so you might want to try it.
> 
> An observation on the BF2: One of its strengths is its  ability to let me follow individual instruments and voices in complex music while keeping the overall scale of the piece intact.  My Bimby with Gen 5 was good at this but the BF2 is even better.  While it may not be to everyone's taste, the combination of the Lyr 3 and the Bifrost 2 really works for me.


Can you stream Tidal through it? Thanks!


----------



## Tralfaz

Guidostrunk said:


> Can you stream Tidal through it? Thanks!


I don't use Tidal or other streaming services but I checked the app and it looks like Tidal is one of the streaming services supported (along with Qobuz and HRA).


----------



## rkw

Guidostrunk said:


> Can you stream Tidal through it?


Yes. https://tidal.com/audirvana


----------



## mbritt (Feb 27, 2021)

Neweymatt said:


> Yes, that is a very good question, wonder if anyone is using a dedicated streamer like Allo DigiOne or pi2AES with Bifrost?
> 
> Darko seems to rate the former, and the latter gets raves on A Nother Forum....
> 
> I'd be quite happy to tinker with an RPi based box like this, but only if it's going to deliver noticeable SQ improvement over what I have already with Unison USB from the MacBookPro.


I have and use Allo DigiOne on ethernet connected via coax to Schiit Modi Multibit/Vali 2+.  In a direct comparison to iPhone 6S+ via Apple CCK to USB the DigiOne and the iPhone sound identical - both great.  iPhone via CCK/USB into unison USB on Bifrost 2 sounds awesome direct from Onkyo HF Player App and as a Roon endpoint.  I've ordered a  RaspberryPi 4 to try out the Vitos Silent Angel software and using the Pi4 USB out to the Bifrost 2.  Due to the weather it's still not here.  The Pi4 has better USB than the Pi3 and the Silent Angel software strips everything away except for Roon operations over USB and ethernet so you no longer require a HAT like the DigiOne to isolate the power from the audio data.  I expect this to equal the iPhone on the Bifrost but you never know until you try.

One interesting thing about iPhone 6s+ and DigiOne was a comparison on my Marantz HT rig.  I had been using the DigiOne to stream to the Marantz for several months when I decided to dig out the HDMI adapter and compare the iPhone as an endpoint.  The DigiOne was connected via Coax (like it is on the ModiMulti) and the iPhone used the Apple DV HDMI adapter.  The iPhone blew the DigiOne out of the water as a Roon Endpoint on the Marantz.  I was shocked.  The Marantz must have an apptitude/preference for HDMI inputs because as I stated earlier on the Schiit Stack they are dead even in SQ.  I've been using the iPhone as my HT Roon endpoint ever since, that's why the DigiOne is on my desk where it replaced a failed Schiit Eitr to cleanup the terrible USB on my iMac.  I'm ordering a Bluesound Node 2i to see if it can equal the iPhone on the Marantz and I have high hopes, especially for when playing Tidal MQA.  I wouldn't mind a set it and forget it system since I'm still using my phone as a phone and my iPad to read.  I'll also test the Node 2i on my Bifrost 2 headphone rig and report back if anyone is interested.

EDIT:  I changed my mind about getting the Bluesound Node 2i but I did do a write up comparing a RaspberryPi 4 USB to a RaspberryPi 3 with Allo DigiOne Coax HAT to Bifrost 2 and ModiMulti.  I posted it in the Computer Audio Forum here.


----------



## tafens (Feb 24, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> I leave my 2 BF2s on 24x7, Texas power grid permitting. Honestly, I think a 20 minute warmup is all that is required to get the BF2 electronics nice and toasty for optimal performance. In my case, it's how my gear is situated making the rear power switch difficult to access that causes me to leave it on at all times.


I also leave mine on 24/7 for the same reason.
Before I usually turned it on some time before listening and let it warm up for half an hour to an hour or so. If there is an improvement leaving it on all the time vs turning it off but letting it warm up for an hour before listening I’m not really detecting it with my ears.



Ripper2860 said:


> (I'm not gonna beat the power switch location dead horse.)



What does _this_ have in common with the Bifrost2?





Answer: 



Spoiler: Guess first :)



Yep, power switch is on the back 
(lovely computer by the way, I have one myself)


----------



## rbreakiron

Just ordered my Bitfrost 2!


----------



## Ripper2860

Congrats!!!!


----------



## YtseJamer

BF2 @ $669
https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## Delta9K

YtseJamer said:


> BF2 @ $669
> https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


For only a $30.00 USD savings - doesn't make a whole lot of cents...   I guess unless one absolutely wanted it "now" and did not want to wait 7-10 days lead time to shipping etc.


----------



## sennfan83261

Delta9K said:


> For only a $30.00 USD savings - doesn't make a whole lot of cents...   I guess unless one absolutely wanted it "now" and did not want to wait 7-10 days lead time to shipping etc.


Furthermore, you have to keep it if you don't like it since their 15-day money back guarantee is not applicable to B-stock items.


----------



## Zachik

Delta9K said:


> For only a $30.00 USD savings - doesn't make a whole lot of cents...   I guess unless one absolutely wanted it "now" and did not want to wait 7-10 days lead time to shipping etc.





sennfan83261 said:


> Furthermore, you have to keep it if you don't like it since their 15-day money back guarantee is not applicable to B-stock items.


...and the worst problem:
Not available in black!!


----------



## Delta9K

Nawww - a can of Krylon is pretty inexpensive and easy to obtain....


----------



## rbreakiron

Just ordered my Bitfrost 2! Big change expected from my iFi Zen DAC


----------



## George Hincapie

Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of comparisons between the BF2 and the more expensive Schiit offerings? I am particularly keen to learn how it compares to the Yggdrasil.


----------



## Guidostrunk

George Hincapie said:


> Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of comparisons between the BF2 and the more expensive Schiit offerings? I am particularly keen to learn how it compares to the Yggdrasil.


Scroll down to 8 of 339. Review from @Torq 
https://forum.headphones.com/t/schiit-bifrost-2-dac-official-thread/4074


----------



## George Hincapie

Guidostrunk said:


> Scroll down to 8 of 339. Review from @Torq
> https://forum.headphones.com/t/schiit-bifrost-2-dac-official-thread/4074



Thank you.


----------



## schneller

George Hincapie said:


> Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of comparisons between the BF2 and the more expensive Schiit offerings? I am particularly keen to learn how it compares to the Yggdrasil.



I wish there were more comparisons, YouTube videos, etc. between Yiggy A2 and BF2. 

I feel BF2 is newer with Unison and Autonomy and a remote.
I feel Yiggy A2 (and especially Gungnir MB) are "long-in-the-tooth" products at this point. A bit stale. As soon as I buy YA2, Schiit will introduce the A3. I just know it.
Yiggy A2 SE outputs are not as good as BF2 SE outputs from what I keep reading. This is a deal breaker for me as my NAIM amp accepts RCA and DIN only. 
Balanced XLR outputs mean schiit to me.
I prefer the BF2 form factor.
But I want the best DAC implementation Schiit can make.
Hence, I want a SE only (best SE outputs Schiit can make) DAC, similar in footprint to BF2, with a DAC setup that is better than Yiggy A2. I think this would be amazing at Chord Qutest prices between $1700-$2000.


----------



## Tralfaz

I haven't play with the ability to invert phase via the remote too much.  What does everyone think about this feature?


----------



## rkw

Tralfaz said:


> I haven't play with the ability to invert phase via the remote too much.  What does everyone think about this feature?


There is a discussion here (read the 10-20 posts that follow):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3587#post-15321256


----------



## George Hincapie (Mar 2, 2021)

schneller said:


> I wish there were more comparisons, YouTube videos, etc. between Yiggy A2 and BF2.
> 
> I feel BF2 is newer with Unison and Autonomy and a remote.
> I feel Yiggy A2 (and especially Gungnir MB) are "long-in-the-tooth" products at this point. A bit stale. As soon as I buy YA2, Schiit will introduce the A3. I just know it.
> ...



At least you get your money's worth with the Yggy; instead of a tiny metal block with the Qutest 

I'm in the same boat as you. I want to replace the DAC in my headphone system, but feel sure the Yggy is due a refresh. I suspect at whatever time they do it, they'll make it modular. Crazy that cheaper DACs are and their flagship is not...


----------



## Jigetz

George Hincapie said:


> At least you get your money's worth with the Yggy; instead of a tiny metal block with the Qutest
> 
> I'm in the same boat as you. I want to replace the DAC in my headphone system, but feel sure the Yggy is due a refresh. I suspect at whatever time they do it, they'll make it modular. Crazy that cheaper DACs are and their flagship is not...



The Yggy is modular. They are on rev 2 of the modular boards aka Analog 2.


----------



## schneller

I think he means Autonomy. The Gungnir is truly long in the tooth. I would love to consider it for its price point and form factor but they don't even make it in a black finish. I would it's scheduled for a refresh before Yiggy.


----------



## George Hincapie

Jigetz said:


> The Yggy is modular. They are on rev 2 of the modular boards aka Analog 2.



My apologies, I meant modular in the sense of boards sliding out the back like the BF2 and Jotenheim.


----------



## JWahl (Mar 4, 2021)

I received my replacement Bifrost 2 earlier today (working properly this time, thankfully) and I've been listening for awhile.  So far....it's interesting.  In some ways it's exceeded my expectations in areas that I already expected it to excel, yet there's some small weaknesses relative to the Modius.  The biggest positive thing that jumps out at me is the way that it tracks the shaping of musical transients.  Things like guitar plucks, quickly bowed strings, trumpet articulations, and vocal flourishes are done amazingly well.  Like freakishly well, with the HE-6se easily being able to track those subtle modulations.  It adds a lot of palpable realism to the music  By that same token, micro and macro dynamics are also exceptional.

Now the criticisms.  It does seem like there's this sort of grayish haze to everything, like you're listening through some kind of vinyl simulation filter.  It's almost as if there is a low level steady-state distortion which is just barely audible.  Sometimes I find it distracting.  It seems like it lessens (maybe) on high-res tracks versus 16/44.1k, and I usually can't tell any difference with high-res tracks.  None of this is present with the Modius.  I suspect this is part of the full-R2R tradeoff.  Although I have owned the Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil before, it's been over 5 years, so my memory is probably not very precise.  It kind of seems like the polar opposite to the RME when I had it.  The RME measured incredibly well, and was smooth, pure, and free of any audible steady-state distortion, but I thought it was poor at tracking the subtle shaping of transient passages.  That gave music a bit of a dull and lifeless sound, although it was clean and smooth sounding.  The Modius sits somewhere in the middle of the two in this regard.  Not as clean as the RME, but also not as dead.  The Bifrost 2 brings believable life and realism to the music, but just sounds a little dirty, if that makes sense.  Right now, I'm mostly likely going to keep it.  Despite the kind of hazy sound, the transient-shaping is really out of this world.

This comparison made me think of something, though.  I wonder why nobody has tried to make something that sits between full R2R (or other multibit) and the typical ~6 bit delta-sigma?  Maybe 12-14 bits multibit, then DS modulation for the rest?   Something that balances the pros and cons of the architectures a little better. I think this might be the next frontier for DACs in the future, albeit probably not consumer chips.

Also, I found a nice link that I think more accurately describes what I'm calling "transient shaping".  Now I just need to figure out what it is about the DAC that makes it excel so well in that property.

https://maplelab.net/overview/amplitude-envelope/

Edit: I should clarify that I don't think the slight "haziness" has anything to do with aliasing/distortion issues that had been reported a long time ago and since fixed.  I ran some test-tones and didn't find anything abnormal aside from the HE6se's lumpy upper-midrange and high frequencies.  I also used the Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit with various tube and tube-hybrid amps, which may have masked this subtle effect in the past.  Overall, I'm really pleased with it so far.


----------



## hikaru12

MRphotography said:


> I can give you some impressions this week I have the BF2, D90, BHC, MOGWAI OG, Pendant and a Matrix i3Pro incoming...



Any update on your review? I ended up with the Chord Qutest currently but still interested in your impressions with the BF2/BHC pairing.


----------



## dougq

I'm curious if this is expected, I just got my Bifrost 2.  Upgrading from a normal Modi 3.  Being driven by a Asgard 3 to a pair of VC....
On the Modi 3 - Asgard 3 high gain max volume I get a ticking static noise.
On the Bifrost 2 - same high gain max volume it's not just a static noise, no ticking.  
(Both scenarios I'm not playing anything, obviously to save my hearing)

My main question is, is this noise being amplified by the Asgard 3 impacting the quality of sound at actual listening levels?

Other observations are I really don't hear any difference.  I feel like half the people will say "duh", and the other half will say I have awful hearing.  I'm going to give it some warm up time before I make a formal declaration that I hear any difference between the 2.  I'll try to A/B it, my main testing album will be RAM from Daft punk through FLAC.


----------



## MRHiFiReviews

hikaru12 said:


> Any update on your review? I ended up with the Chord Qutest currently but still interested in your impressions with the BF2/BHC pairing.


Hey!  It was an enjoyable pairing.  I ended up trading it and getting a more neutral detailed Dac in the matrix Element X.  I prefer to have more neutral DACs with wide stage and choose amps or tubes to add the flavor. I am finishing up my review and comparisons of the D90 to a few other DACs then I will be listing that one up for sale most likely too.


----------



## hikaru12

MRphotography said:


> Hey!  It was an enjoyable pairing.  I ended up trading it and getting a more neutral detailed Dac in the matrix Element X.  I prefer to have more neutral DACs with wide stage and choose amps or tubes to add the flavor. I am finishing up my review and comparisons of the D90 to a few other DACs then I will be listing that one up for sale most likely too.



While totally not neutral I'm currently looking at getting rid of my Qutest in favor of a NOS DAC such as the Morpheus myself. Like you said, its nice to have neutral sound with more detail and space. I think the NOS Dacs excel in the latter.


----------



## TheRealDz

Me too.  I am thinking about ditching my Hugo for a NOS/ladder DAC... 



hikaru12 said:


> While totally not neutral I'm currently looking at getting rid of my Qutest in favor of a NOS DAC such as the Morpheus myself. Like you said, its nice to have neutral sound with more detail and space. I think the NOS Dacs excel in the latter.


----------



## hikaru12

TheRealDz said:


> Me too.  I am thinking about ditching my Hugo for a NOS/ladder DAC...



Keep me posted! After I list my Qutest for sale I’ll probably be getting a Morpheus and can do brief comparisons here between it and the BF2/Gumby/Yggy.


----------



## theveterans

TheRealDz said:


> Me too.  I am thinking about ditching my Hugo for a NOS/ladder DAC...



IME, NOS R2R stages closer than OS ladder DAC like the Schiit MB DACs and offer more depth in return. The good thing about NOS R2R DACs is that you can plug in whatever OS filter you want to suit your tonality, depth and staging preferences ala MScaler but on the software/PC side


----------



## TheRealDz

Thank you - good advice! 

(at minimum, I would have "liked" your reply, but that feature seems to have disappeared from this site a week or two ago... 🤔🤔) 

I am leaning towards a BF2 or Ares 2...



theveterans said:


> IME, NOS R2R stages closer than OS ladder DAC like the Schiit MB DACs and offer more depth in return. The good thing about NOS R2R DACs is that you can plug in whatever OS filter you want to suit your tonality, depth and staging preferences ala MScaler but on the software/PC side


----------



## rkw

TheRealDz said:


> (at minimum, I would have "liked" your reply, but that feature seems to have disappeared from this site a week or two ago... 🤔🤔)


See this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...orts-and-feedback-thread.845502/post-16196918


----------



## TheRealDz

Thanks for the the link.  

(Fwiw, AdGuard content blocker via Samsung browser kept the page from loading correctly. ) 



rkw said:


> See this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new...orts-and-feedback-thread.845502/post-16196918


----------



## hikaru12

theveterans said:


> IME, NOS R2R stages closer than OS ladder DAC like the Schiit MB DACs and offer more depth in return. The good thing about NOS R2R DACs is that you can plug in whatever OS filter you want to suit your tonality, depth and staging preferences ala MScaler but on the software/PC side



I just scored an amazing deal on a Pavane L3! At first I was going to go for the Morpheus as the Yggy was good but just didn’t do it for me (GS model, I know the A2 is supposed to sound warm like the Bifrost but wanted to stick with NOS). I was then looking at the Morpheus when I got mixed impressions at the other site that said it might sound similar to the Yggy. Doing a little more research I was lucky enough to scrape enough money to get a Pavane L3 for what I would have paid for the Morpheus. It should get here by next week. Cant wait to compare it to the Bifrost. Super excited.


----------



## kumar402

hikaru12 said:


> I just scored an amazing deal on a Pavane L3! At first I was going to go for the Morpheus as the Yggy was good but just didn’t do it for me (GS model, I know the A2 is supposed to sound warm like the Bifrost but wanted to stick with NOS). I was then looking at the Morpheus when I got mixed impressions at the other site that said it might sound similar to the Yggy. Doing a little more research I was lucky enough to scrape enough money to get a Pavane L3 for what I would have paid for the Morpheus. It should get here by next week. Cant wait to compare it to the Bifrost. Super excited.


Bifrost is good for money but just can’t compete with Morpheus or Pavane. I know for sure that you will have a good time with Pavane. Do keep us posted with your finding.


----------



## Ripper2860

Not really a fair fight comparing BF2 with DACs at 5+ times the price.  I'm sure they are fabulous and should be!!


----------



## hikaru12

Ripper2860 said:


> Not really a fair fight comparing BF2 with DACs at 5+ times the price.  I'm sure they are fabulous and should be!!



Haha well in my mind it’s more about what kind of value the BF2 holds in its segment than an all outright comparison.  I think the BF2 really hits a lot of points with a great out of the box USB implementation. It’s the best middle ground detailed DAC over the Denafrips and better tonality with things like a better sense of space over the ADI-2. It made jumping down from the Yggy GS feel like it was no big deal. Yes it was more detailed and had better slam in the bass but the BF2 really holds its own especially out of balanced. I really enjoyed my time with it and people who heard the original Gumby will have no issue adjusting to its sound at all.


----------



## 2ndWedge (Mar 9, 2021)

Ripper2860 said:


> Not really a fair fight comparing BF2 with DACs at 5+ times the price.  I'm sure they are fabulous and should be!!





Ripper2860 said:


> Not really a fair fight comparing BF2 with DACs at 5+ times the price.  I'm sure they are fabulous and should be!!


----------



## 2ndWedge

I follow 4 head fi forums involving Bifrost and I have made the following assumptions:
- unlike years ago where a computer was frowned upon as a streamer due to noise and alternate activity the new DACS ability to isolate noise and reclock bits means that a MAC mini with Audirvana connected to a Schiit Eitr USB to SPDIF converter into a Bifrost or directly into a Bifrost 2 USB is as good a choice now as a dedicated streamer sound wise.
- that the opinions of the sound quality of the Bifrost 2 are opinions comparing it for the most part to the Bifrost USB or to the Bifrost with Eitr or to another Schiit model.  As a result I will definitely mail in my Bifrost for the $200 Unison upgrade.  It should be good for my solid state preamp and amp.  And when I insert my integrated tube amp for a month or 2 I can experiment with going back to the Eitr for a slightly different sound.  Makes the Bifrost very versatile.  Too bad the Eitr is out of production.
I should therefore not fret over the use of a MAC mini as a streamer and should my late 2012 pack it in I would be well served by replacing it with a new one?


----------



## Gorillaphant (Mar 9, 2021)

Was looking into upgrading my DAC from a Topping D50S and was considering the following. I will be pairing it with my Topping A90:

Bifrost 2
Denafrips Ares II
Gungnir Multibit
Currently leaning toward the Bifrost 2 mostly for the price to performance ratio. Is there a clear best option among these, or something else I should be considering?


----------



## hikaru12

Gorillaphant said:


> Was looking into upgrading my DAC from a Topping D50S and was considering the following. I will be pairing it with my Topping A90:
> 
> Bifrost 2
> Denafrips Ares II
> ...



Price to performance the BF2 will give you the best balance of detail to tonality. The Denafrips takes longer to ship and it’s a more softer sound. Very different sound coming from the Topping. The bass is better on the BF2.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Thanks. To be honest my only reservation about the Bifrost 2 is that it doesn't match up with the A90 closely in terms of physical size, but that's not really a big deal.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I came from the Ares and can confirm what @hikaru12  described. BF2 bests it imo. Unless you like soft and sleepy.


----------



## Neweymatt

Gorillaphant said:


> Was looking into upgrading my DAC from a Topping D50S and was considering the following. I will be pairing it with my Topping A90:
> 
> Bifrost 2
> Denafrips Ares II
> ...


Hard to say if there is a clear best option, all are good DACs.

Best way is to listen yourself, but failing that, this is a pretty good roundup of those and a few others there or thereabouts


If the $$ are at all a concern for you, then BF2 is a damn good choice.  I couldnt justify something like qutest at 2x the price, but someday who knows...


----------



## YtseJamer (Mar 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> I came from the Ares and can confirm what @hikaru12  described. BF2 bests it imo. Unless you like soft and sleepy.



Humm, I have both the Bifrost 2/Ares II, and sleepy is not a word I would use to describe the Ares II.  With my headphones and my speakers the sound is fun and punchy with the Ares II.


----------



## Tsunzo

I received my Jot 2 today! its a great Amp! I cant wait till my Bi-frost 2 to come in to pair them together


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

YtseJamer said:


> Humm, I have both the Bifrost 2/Ares II, and sleepy is not a word I would use to describe the Ares II.  With my headphones and my speakers the sound is more fun and punchy with the Ares II.


Are you using balanced or SE outputs?


----------



## Guidostrunk

YtseJamer said:


> Humm, I have both the Bifrost 2/Ares II, and sleepy is not a word I would use to describe the Ares II.  With my headphones and my speakers the sound is more fun and punchy with the Ares II.


In comparison to my ears the BF2 has better dynamics, clarity, imaging and bass impact/slam. Everything just sounds more real and coherent. 

All subjective though.


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## YtseJamer (Mar 9, 2021)

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Are you using balanced or SE outputs?



Balanced


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## YtseJamer (Mar 16, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> In comparison to my ears the BF2 has better dynamics, clarity, imaging and bass impact/slam. Everything just sounds more real and coherent.
> 
> All subjective though.



It's all subjective since we all have different ears and different preferences.  I don't consider myself a true audiophile person, and as long as a minimum ability is reached, then I'm happy.  To my ears, the Ares II is every bit as good as the BF2.  Both DACs are amazing at their respective price points.


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## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

2ndWedge said:


> Too bad the Eitr is out of production.


Check the b-stock quick -4 in stock right now


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## 2ndWedge

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> Check the b-stock quick -4 in stock right now


Thanks, will do


----------



## Minkypou

ordered my bitfrost 2 last day  its gonna join my jotunheim 2 with my Zmf Atticus . cant wait to try it !


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## TheRealDz (Mar 12, 2021)

Quite the glowing review by a pretty respectfed review website. 

However the reviewer loses quite a bit of credibility when he admits this is the first and only DAC he's ever heard.... 

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/schiit-audio-bifrost-2-dac-review/


----------



## theveterans

TheRealDz said:


> Quite the glowing review by a pretty respectfed review website.
> 
> However the reviewer loses quite a bit of credibility when he admits this is the first and only DAC he's ever heard....
> 
> https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/schiit-audio-bifrost-2-dac-review/



Glad that HT enthusiasts are embracing high quality stereo processors than just sticking with AVRs (which has IMO rarely have novelties in their DAC implementation)


----------



## Tsunzo

I received my Bi-frost 2 yesterday, pairing it with Jot 2 and so far I am happy with it. I hope for it to get even better with break in!


----------



## LittleJoe919

Tsunzo said:


> I received my Bi-frost 2 yesterday, pairing it with Jot 2 and so far I am happy with it. I hope for it to get even better with break in!


It should. I know mine did and I have the same stack.


----------



## Tsunzo

LittleJoe919 said:


> It should. I know mine did and I have the same stack.


How long did it take for you to notice a difference for the break in?


----------



## hikaru12

So here's my brief impressions of the Pavane and Bifrost (keeping in mind their enormous price difference and one being multibit and the other NOS)

Even though the Pavane is NOS (and admittedly one of the warmer ones) it tends to have more clarity than the Bifrost. The Bifrost actually seems warmer in some regards. The Pavane can be described as a more neutral to warmish version of NOS. At first during the first three hours of warmup I thought it sounded overly warm and rolled off. Now after three days the mid range detail is coming back that I know from my Eikons. The slam and the detailed bass notes is incredible, it slammed harder than my Yggy GS which is quite a feat. The Bifrost has great slam as well too but it can kind of sound one notish at times during busy passages.

Layering is excellent, imaging is really good as well. I actually find the Bifrost almost as detailed as the Pavane. The microdetails are more buried but more nuanced with the Pavane. The Morpheus would be a better comparison if detail was my be all, end all and more direct of a comparison against the Bifrost.

Where does that leave the Bifrost? The BF2 actually has more treble bite and a more thicker, wall of sound kind of slam. It actually paired really well with my Eikons in this regard as it could help out their slam. It's only till I transitioned to the Pavane that I noticed I was missing out on some soundstage and instruments could breathe more. I think the Bifrost works well either with amps that slam or for a more balanced sound, something more relaxed and laid back. For me, I think the Pavane does well with either but I suspect I will enjoy it a bit more with an amp that leans neutral/warm.

Ultimately, I think what the BF2 and Pavane share are excellent, real to life tonality and great dynamics. The BF2 is more in your face while the Pavane is a bit more symphonic in that it gives you a lot more space to breathe and the smoothing affect is a little less fatiguing than the Bifrost despite the BF2 still being an easy all day listen. NOS isn't for everyone, I really wasn't convinced. I tried HQPlayer and while it gave me more detail and air, it sounded artificial. To my ears, NOS sounds like real life and the closest I've heard to vinyl. My Pavane is still warming up and I still have some work to do to bring it to it's best form but it goes a long way to say that Schiit can still hang in there, possibly as a secondary system. Schiit's warmer DACs (BF2/Yggy A2) actually give me a sense of listening to NOS with more air and forefront detail. 

You really can't go wrong with either system and there's a huge loss of dollar to performance as you go up even in Schiits lineup. The Bifrost is an incredible value, brand new or used. I would be happy to put it in both a speaker or headphone system. It's possibly my most favorite DAC I've heard - there's nothing it really does wrong. The main caveat for most folks is you have to be willing to like it's tonality - if you're a detail above all or D/S fan than you probably won't like it. I suspect you would hate the Pavane as well. I have always enjoyed a more warmer tone and have steered myself towards warmer cans (LCD 2, Stellia, Atticus, Eikon, Aeolus) so pairing it with the BF2 was only a natural fit. 

If you have the money, highly suggest you look at Metrum or Sonnet especially in the used market otherwise just get the Bifrost. It's a no brainer. It sells like hotcakes in the Classifieds too if you're ever worried about losing value during an upgrade.


----------



## dougq

Tsunzo said:


> I received my Bi-frost 2 yesterday, pairing it with Jot 2 and so far I am happy with it. I hope for it to get even better with break in!


I did not find there to be any break in differences.  It sounded the same cold as it did sitting on over a weekend.


----------



## hikaru12

dougq said:


> I did not find there to be any break in differences.  It sounded the same cold as it did sitting on over a weekend.



I disagree even though it's not a huge change. The Yggy is an enormous change from cold to on for a few days to on for a few weeks but it still benefits from some warm up. It's actually one of the fastest warm up times for a mid range R2R DAC - only a day/two days tops (similar to Soekris's DACs).


----------



## LittleJoe919

Tsunzo said:


> How long did it take for you to notice a difference for the break in?





Tsunzo said:


> How long did it take for you to notice a difference for the break in?


I had my Bifrost for a couple of weeks before my Jot showed up, so it was settled. The Jot, maybe a week? Depends on how much time you can get a chance to listen to it. I get to listen 2-3 hrs. a day. But, I never turn anything off. ymmv


----------



## WhiteFox01

How do people like this when paired with a utopia?


----------



## schneiderdn1974 (Mar 14, 2021)

WhiteFox01 said:


> How do people like this when paired with a utopia?


I noticed you asked this same question on the Jot2 thread. I haven't had a chance to listen to Utopias yet; however, my Focal Clears paired with BF2+Jot2 are a really solid/enjoyable match. If you haven't already seen them, the following reviews may provide some additional insight into what you can expect:


----------



## theveterans

WhiteFox01 said:


> How do people like this when paired with a utopia?



Depends on the amp chain more than the BF2 itself. One pairing that I wouldn't recommend with Utopia if BF2 is the DAC would be the GS X mini. Too laid-back for my taste. Utopia sings with SET amps that I've demoed (Mogwai SE, Stellaris), and BF2 + SET amp + Utopia =  IMHO


----------



## singularitykid (Apr 16, 2021)

(deleted)


----------



## kumar402

singularitykid said:


> Long time lurker here. Also the owner of a new Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 stack. I bought both to power my most recent purchase, the HEDDphone. I'm pretty happy with the result but I feel something is lacking. One the one hand, I absolutely love the smooth, natural, organic nature of the sound I'm getting. I didn't know I had digital glare until I got this combo. On the other hand, I feel I've had to sacrifice more detail than I was expecting based on the reviews, separation is not as good as I would have liked, there's a bloominess I'm not crazy about, and in music where lots is going on everything gets smushed together somewhat (I guess that's also separation).
> 
> With the right music the BF2 sounds ridiculously good. But too often I feel like it's taking too much away from the gorgeous sound and resolution the HEDDphone can offer. Before this stack I was using a JDS Labs Element II dac/amp. While not powerful enough to take proper command of the HEDDphone, it was still surprisingly good at driving them, and it was actually better at detail, air and separation than the Schiit stack.
> 
> ...


If detail and separation is top priority for you then get a used Chord qutest and you won't be disappointed. However its only single ended but offer the sound signature that you are looking for.


----------



## 2ndWedge

singularitykid said:


> Long time lurker here. Also the owner of a new Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 stack. I bought both to power my most recent purchase, the HEDDphone. I'm pretty happy with the result but I feel something is lacking. One the one hand, I absolutely love the smooth, natural, organic nature of the sound I'm getting. I didn't know I had digital glare until I got this combo. On the other hand, I feel I've had to sacrifice more detail than I was expecting based on the reviews, separation is not as good as I would have liked, there's a bloominess I'm not crazy about, and in music where lots is going on everything gets smushed together somewhat (I guess that's also separation).
> 
> With the right music the BF2 sounds ridiculously good. But too often I feel like it's taking too much away from the gorgeous sound and resolution the HEDDphone can offer. Before this stack I was using a JDS Labs Element II dac/amp. While not powerful enough to take proper command of the HEDDphone, it was still surprisingly good at driving them, and it was actually better at detail, air and separation than the Schiit stack.
> 
> ...


If you can obtain an Eitr for the spdif input this might Give you the alternative sound you are looking for.  Then switch back to the Unison for super smooth depending on the music.


----------



## Smoothstereo

singularitykid said:


> Long time lurker here. Also the owner of a new Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 stack. I bought both to power my most recent purchase, the HEDDphone. I'm pretty happy with the result but I feel something is lacking. One the one hand, I absolutely love the smooth, natural, organic nature of the sound I'm getting. I didn't know I had digital glare until I got this combo. On the other hand, I feel I've had to sacrifice more detail than I was expecting based on the reviews, separation is not as good as I would have liked, there's a bloominess I'm not crazy about, and in music where lots is going on everything gets smushed together somewhat (I guess that's also separation).
> 
> With the right music the BF2 sounds ridiculously good. But too often I feel like it's taking too much away from the gorgeous sound and resolution the HEDDphone can offer. Before this stack I was using a JDS Labs Element II dac/amp. While not powerful enough to take proper command of the HEDDphone, it was still surprisingly good at driving them, and it was actually better at detail, air and separation than the Schiit stack.
> 
> ...


I have the same Jot2/BF2 combo, but different hp. On my Denon D5200 and Sundara, detail and separation are not lacking, actually find these attributes to be stunning. Are you using Balance input and output on the Jot2/BF2 combo? That will give you maximum detail and separation vs using SE input and output (least detail and separation in this manner). If using SE input with Bal output or Bal input with SE output, takes the middle ground on detail and separation. At least that's how I hear it on my set up.


----------



## singularitykid (Apr 16, 2021)

kumar402 said:


> If detail and separation is top priority for you then get a used Chord qutest and you won't be disappointed. However its only single ended but offer the sound signature that you are looking for.


----------



## singularitykid (Apr 16, 2021)

2ndWedge said:


> If you can obtain an Eitr for the spdif input this might Give you the alternative sound you are looking for.  Then switch back to the Unison for super smooth depending on the music.


----------



## singularitykid (Apr 16, 2021)

Smoothstereo said:


> I have the same Jot2/BF2 combo, but different hp. On my Denon D5200 and Sundara, detail and separation are not lacking, actually find these attributes to be stunning. Are you using Balance input and output on the Jot2/BF2 combo? That will give you maximum detail and separation vs using SE input and output (least detail and separation in this manner). If using SE input with Bal output or Bal input with SE output, takes the middle ground on detail and separation. At least that's how I hear it on my set up.


----------



## Smoothstereo

singularitykid said:


> I'm using all balanced in/outputs. I did compare to SE; balanced is definitely a step up (and it's especially recommended with the HEDDphone).
> 
> To be clear, I'm not saying the sound I'm getting from the Jot2/BF2 combo is bad in any way, far from it. I don't want to overstate the negatives. But here's my experience: I started with a pair of LCD-2's. I quite enjoyed them but they couldn't fully convince me because of similar issues: not enough separation, a bit muffled, not enough air -- even after EQ. So I went to the HEDDphone and it just blew me away on my little Element II. That amp clearly needed upgrading to get the most out of the headphones, so I settled on the balanced Jot2/BF2 combo. Now that I have it, it's a big improvement in a lot of ways (heft, control, dynamics, timbre) but when it comes to separation, air, etc, it's almost like I went back to the LCD-2. Well, a massively improved LCD-2, but still. For all of the improvements, there's also a marked regression in some aspects. And seeing as I really enjoyed the sound of the HEDDphone on a more revealing amp, I'm hoping to find the best of both worlds.


Ok I see. If your Jot2/BF2 are new, maybe let them settle in and see if it opens up and improve. I noticed when new, the Jot2 was peaky bright and a bit muddled too at the same time. I now have about 115 hours of use on the Jot2 and a little less on the BF2 and not noticing these attributes, unless its a crappy recording. I use CD ripped 44.1khz wav format for my music by the way.

Hope the Jot2/BF2 improves for you as it did for me. At first I was not blown away, but I find it a very special combo now. Perhaps its both gear and brain burn in. But give it time before making a quick decision to buy or change things.


----------



## singularitykid (Apr 16, 2021)

Smoothstereo said:


> Ok I see. If your Jot2/BF2 are new, maybe let them settle in and see if it opens up and improve. I noticed when new, the Jot2 was peaky bright and a bit muddled too at the same time. I now have about 115 hours of use on the Jot2 and a little less on the BF2 and not noticing these attributes, unless its a crappy recording. I use CD ripped 44.1khz wav format for my music by the way.
> 
> Hope the Jot2/BF2 improves for you as it did for me. At first I was not blown away, but I find it a very special combo now. Perhaps its both gear and brain burn in. But give it time before making a quick decision to buy or change things.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Just had caps upgraded in my MJ2 and it took about 3 days of constant running to get the amp to settle in. I do believe gear needs a period to burn in to sound its best when new. 
The MJ2 was strident and glaring out of the box after mods. 

Really digging the MJ2/BF2 combo with my Clears.


----------



## WhiteFox01

theveterans said:


> Depends on the amp chain more than the BF2 itself. One pairing that I wouldn't recommend with Utopia if BF2 is the DAC would be the GS X mini. Too laid-back for my taste. Utopia sings with SET amps that I've demoed (Mogwai SE, Stellaris), and BF2 + SET amp + Utopia =  IMHO


I'm thinking of combining it with a JOT2 + BF2 chain along with a 4 pin XLR balanced cable.


----------



## SnowRang3r

Guidostrunk said:


> Just had caps upgraded in my MJ2 and it took about 3 days of constant running to get the amp to settle in. I do believe gear needs a period to burn in to sound its best when new.
> The MJ2 was strident and glaring out of the box after mods.
> 
> Really digging the MJ2/BF2 combo with my Clears.


That’s pretty cool, got any pictures of the upgrades?


----------



## 2ndWedge

singularitykid said:


> Hadn't come across the Eitr before. I'm not sure how it'd help me. If I were to add a second DAC or replace the BF2, I'd just use its USB input directly. Am I missing something?


The schiit Eitr converts USB to SPDIF and is externally powered so it also isolates noise and reclocks data.  Its discontinued but shows up on Schiits closeout site from time to time.  If youcan buy one its like having 2 usb dacs in one soundwise.


----------



## Guidostrunk

SnowRang3r said:


> That’s pretty cool, got any pictures of the upgrades?


Before 



After. Not a lot of room in there lol.


----------



## dougq

I actually bought an Eitr on the last wave thinking I was going to use it but I am not so if someone wants to buy it from me at cost just send me a message.


----------



## Minkypou

i was planning on using the optical input on the bitfrost 2 , did anybody compared to usb ? on my cyan i prefer the optical , has less glare in the top end with same details .


----------



## singularitykid (Apr 16, 2021)

2ndWedge said:


> The schiit Eitr converts USB to SPDIF and is externally powered so it also isolates noise and reclocks data.  Its discontinued but shows up on Schiits closeout site from time to time.  If youcan buy one its like having 2 usb dacs in one soundwise.


----------



## hikaru12

theveterans said:


> Depends on the amp chain more than the BF2 itself. One pairing that I wouldn't recommend with Utopia if BF2 is the DAC would be the GS X mini. Too laid-back for my taste. Utopia sings with SET amps that I've demoed (Mogwai SE, Stellaris), and BF2 + SET amp + Utopia =  IMHO



Do you find the BF2 pairs better with amps that are more forward, say the Liquid Platinum? The reason why I ask is I’m running into the same issue myself with a laid back/warmer DAC being a bad pairing with a laid back or neutral amp. BHC so far doesn’t seem to be cutting the mustard.


----------



## rkw

Minkypou said:


> i was planning on using the optical input on the bitfrost 2 , did anybody compared to usb ? on my cyan i prefer the optical , has less glare in the top end with same details .


Try both and see if you prefer one over the other. Bifrost 2 has Unison USB which many find to be better than optical.


----------



## theveterans (Mar 16, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> Do you find the BF2 pairs better with amps that are more forward, say the Liquid Platinum? The reason why I ask is I’m running into the same issue myself with a laid back/warmer DAC being a bad pairing with a laid back or neutral amp. BHC so far doesn’t seem to be cutting the mustard.



IMO, pairing a laid back amp with BF2 can cause blurring of the transients which can make the system lacking enough bite when the recording calls for it. Haven't heard the liquid platinum, but if the note edges are not too sharp nor too slow, BF2 would pair up really well with it


----------



## theveterans

WhiteFox01 said:


> I'm thinking of combining it with a JOT2 + BF2 chain along with a 4 pin XLR balanced cable.



Could be a sound that you like if Utopia's treble is too sharp for you as I've heard the Jot 2, but not with Utopia. I believe it should make the Utopia sound wider, but it won't maximize Utopia's resolution capabilities.


----------



## wantan

singularitykid said:


> Long time lurker here. Also the owner of a new Jotunheim 2 + Bifrost 2 stack. I bought both to power my most recent purchase, the HEDDphone. I'm pretty happy with the result but I feel something is lacking. One the one hand, I absolutely love the smooth, natural, organic nature of the sound I'm getting. I didn't know I had digital glare until I got this combo. On the other hand, I feel I've had to sacrifice more detail than I was expecting based on the reviews, separation is not as good as I would have liked, there's a bloominess I'm not crazy about, and in music where lots is going on everything gets smushed together somewhat (I guess that's also separation).
> 
> With the right music the BF2 sounds ridiculously good. But too often I feel like it's taking too much away from the gorgeous sound and resolution the HEDDphone can offer. Before this stack I was using a JDS Labs Element II dac/amp. While not powerful enough to take proper command of the HEDDphone, it was still surprisingly good at driving them, and it was actually better at detail, air and separation than the Schiit stack.
> 
> ...



Bifrost 2 needs a few days running 24/7, at least that was my impression when I had it new for the first few days. 

I've recently directly compared Bifrost 2 and the RME ADI 2 DAC FS and Modi 3+ using a Meier Corda Classic AMP, which allows me to switch between two DACs. The DACs sound very simillar, the difference is realy tiny, they're much closer than I would have expected. Jot 2 is also part of my collections, as well as a Phonitor e and some others.

If you want to compare stuff and hear how your BF2/Jot2 sounds compared to something else I'd recommend Modi 3+ and eventually a Magni. These give you 100% soundquality and they can be sold without much loss. And you can use Modi 3 with Jot2, too. Input doesn't matter for Jot2 so no need to worry about balanced/SE input.


----------



## joseG86

Just received the Bifrost 2 and paired with Jotunheim 2 and Valhalla 2, first impressions:

*Finally reached end-game* after the trap of measurements with soulless devices...

I'll update after 1 week but so far, *amazing*.


----------



## singularitykid

wantan said:


> Bifrost 2 needs a few days running 24/7, at least that was my impression when I had it new for the first few days.
> 
> I've recently directly compared Bifrost 2 and the RME ADI 2 DAC FS and Modi 3+ using a Meier Corda Classic AMP, which allows me to switch between two DACs. The DACs sound very simillar, the difference is realy tiny, they're much closer than I would have expected. Jot 2 is also part of my collections, as well as a Phonitor e and some others.
> 
> If you want to compare stuff and hear how your BF2/Jot2 sounds compared to something else I'd recommend Modi 3+ and eventually a Magni. These give you 100% soundquality and they can be sold without much loss. And you can use Modi 3 with Jot2, too. Input doesn't matter for Jot2 so no need to worry about balanced/SE input.


Interesting to hear that the BF2 is so close to the ADI 2 when you compared them. So far I've been assuming that it's the BF2 that's causing the perceived lack of detail and slight wooliness. Tonight I'll plug in the BF2 to my old Element II amp and see how much of the Jot2 is a factor, rather than the DAC.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

wantan said:


> Bifrost 2 needs a few days running 24/7, at least that was my impression when I had it new for the first few days.
> 
> I've recently directly compared Bifrost 2 and the RME ADI 2 DAC FS and Modi 3+ using a Meier Corda Classic AMP, which allows me to switch between two DACs. The DACs sound very simillar, the difference is realy tiny, they're much closer than I would have expected. Jot 2 is also part of my collections, as well as a Phonitor e and some others.
> 
> If you want to compare stuff and hear how your BF2/Jot2 sounds compared to something else I'd recommend Modi 3+ and eventually a Magni. These give you 100% soundquality and they can be sold without much loss. And you can use Modi 3 with Jot2, too. Input doesn't matter for Jot2 so no need to worry about balanced/SE input.


How would you say the Bifrost pairs with your Phonitor?  I have an earlier version Bifrost MB that I use with my Phonitor x and Dan Clark Ether 2's that I like really well.


----------



## Ken G

wantan said:


> Jot 2 is also part of my collections, as well as a Phonitor e and some others.



How would you compare the Jot2 and Phonitor?


----------



## adydula

Had both the phonitor and Jot 1 and Jot 2 here with Bifrost 1 and Bifrost 2.

I preferred the combination of the Bifrost 2 with the Jot 2 over the phonitor here with Hedds, Empyreans, Focal Clears and HD600 and Hd650.
I actually had a $5495 Chord Hugo TT2 here and the Jot 2 was as good as the amp and the B2 as good as the dac in the Chord.

We all here differently for sure, but tbh its not worth $5495 for a just as good experience with a $699 Bifost 2 + $399 Jot2 = $1100 compared to a TT2 or even a phonitor amd/dac.

The Jot2 has more than enough power and SE + Balanced for most any headphone.


----------



## cgb3

singularitykid said:


> But too often I feel like it's taking too much away from the gorgeous sound and resolution the HEDDphone can offer.


I suggest you ask your HEDDphone handlers advisors experts what amp works best with their headphone.

Come on, it's at least a little bit funny?


----------



## astropalace

joseG86 said:


> Just received the Bifrost 2 and paired with Jotunheim 2 and Valhalla 2, first impressions:
> 
> *Finally reached end-game* after the trap of measurements with soulless devices...
> 
> I'll update after 1 week but so far, *amazing*.



Worth upgrading from a Topping D90?


----------



## singularitykid

Did a lot of comparing the Jot2/BF2 combo with my old Element II. The Schiit stack is superior in every way. The detail is definitely there, it's just smoother and more natural sounding on the BF2. That makes the Element sound more resolving at first glance, but really it's just a bit harsher. Glad to be wrong there. The (very) slight wooliness is a thing, though. Everything from the mids on down is not as sharply delineated as it is on the Element. Instead of a crisp edge there's a bit of a halo around everything, and that makes sounds blend together ever so slightly. It removes a bit of air and makes you work harder to spot the details. I don't think it's a shortcoming, it's just the nature of the beast, a matter of presentation. It's not 100% what I want, but I can see why it works so well in creating an engaging, natural sounding listening experience. In the long run I'll probably want to switch to something that combines the best of this Jot2/BF2 combo (timbre, smoothness, natural sound, dynamics, punch) with a bit more resolution and separation. I'm thinking along the lines of a Chord Qutest + Burson Soloist 3X right now, but that's a lot of money, so who knows. For now I'm just going to enjoy this new stack for what it is. It really is quite special.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

singularitykid said:


> Did a lot of comparing the Jot2/BF2 combo with my old Element II. The Schiit stack is superior in every way. The detail is definitely there, it's just smoother and more natural sounding on the BF2. That makes the Element sound more resolving at first glance, but really it's just a bit harsher. Glad to be wrong there. The (very) slight wooliness is a thing, though. Everything from the mids on down is not as sharply delineated as it is on the Element. Instead of a crisp edge there's a bit of a halo around everything, and that makes sounds blend together ever so slightly. It removes a bit of air and makes you work harder to spot the details. I don't think it's a shortcoming, it's just the nature of the beast, a matter of presentation. It's not 100% what I want, but I can see why it works so well in creating an engaging, natural sounding listening experience. In the long run I'll probably want to switch to something that combines the best of this Jot2/BF2 combo (timbre, smoothness, natural sound, dynamics, punch) with a bit more resolution and separation. I'm thinking along the lines of a Chord Qutest + Burson Soloist 3X right now, but that's a lot of money, so who knows. For now I'm just going to enjoy this new stack for what it is. It really is quite special.


Did you happen to try feeding the Bifrost 2 to the amp section of the Element II? I currently use the BF2 with an EL Amp II, and I’d like to know how it compares to the BF2/Jot2 combo.


----------



## singularitykid

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Did you happen to try feeding the Bifrost 2 to the amp section of the Element II? I currently use the BF2 with an EL Amp II, and I’d like to know how it compares to the BF2/Jot2 combo.


I did briefly but gave up because it was too much cable swapping to allow for fast(ish) A/B source switching. But I'll spend some time with that combo tomorrow and let you know.


----------



## joseG86

astropalace said:


> Worth upgrading from a Topping D90?


Honest opinion, not really. Differences are there, minor but there. So far after 1 day I can feel Bf2 more natural with some instruments and finally I don't get metallic voices of women, with Gustard X16 (2x ESS ES9068AS) It has little bit more (tiny) of detail and I come from D90 as well.

Maybe with speakers the differences would be notorious but with HPs I don't really think so


----------



## adydula

The differences that people hear or "think" they hear are often "difficult" to really discern. People spend big bucks for a supposed TOTL experience and often they strain to
hear anything at all....but many think that spending more bucks will definitley make things sound much much better....we all hear differently.

A Schitt Bifrost 2 is a really decent amp that for many is indeed a TOTL DAC...no need to spend more...at least not here.


----------



## singularitykid (Mar 18, 2021)

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Did you happen to try feeding the Bifrost 2 to the amp section of the Element II? I currently use the BF2 with an EL Amp II, and I’d like to know how it compares to the BF2/Jot2 combo.


Just compared the BF2/Jot2 combo to the BF2/Element II one. I used single-ended for both. It's the only option available on the Element, and the HEDDphone is also known to sound somewhat different over balanced and I didn't want to muddy the waters.

They're very close when fed by the Bifrost 2. The main difference is in the treble. It's a bit harsher on the Element. The Jotunheim smooths it out more. Not in a bad way. It's not muffled or less revealing in any way. Just less edgy and sharp. I prefer the smoother, more natural sound of the Jot2. Nothing wrong with what the Element is doing though. In direct comparison I did find it slightly grating, but I wouldn't have known without the A/B. And I wouldn't even call it 'grating' if I hadn't had the Jot2 to compare to.

Apart from that I sometimes thought I heard slight differences in the bass but I may have been imaging things. The 1-2 seconds needed to unplug/replug the headphones made it very hard to be sure, both amps are that close. This goes for bass, slam, soundstage, anything but treble. Really hard to tell them apart.  I'm sure there are more differences but they'd be slight, and without a switch to allow me to flip back and forth instantaneously, it's all guesswork. (Not so with the treble, that difference is subtle but distinct.)

It's quite clear the Bifrost 2 is the main driver of the sound signature you're getting with both these dac/amp combos. And seeing as you already own a BF2 and presumably like its sound, I don't think you're missing out on much with the Element. And you get that lovely Big Volume Knob (infinitely better than the puny one on the Jot2, which isn't even particularly smooth).

I was quite surprised how well the Element drives my headphones. It needs high gain to match what the Jot2 can do single-ended in low gain, but even so, that's pretty impressive.

I did switch to balanced in the end and that's when the Jot2 came into its own, but that has more to do with my headphones, less so the amp. As long as you don't need balanced, and the Element has enough power to drive your headphones, you're getting a slightly less natural sounding, less smooth Jot2.


----------



## adydula

With my Hedds the Jot 2 the best combination for me is HIGH gain with balanced outs.
Absolutely superb.

The only dac I use is the Schiit Bifrost 2 and it stood up to the Chord Hugo TT2 for a LOT LESS $$$.

Never had any JDS labs stuff...except for an O2 DIY several years ago.


----------



## singularitykid

adydula said:


> With my Hedds the Jot 2 the best combination for me is HIGH gain with balanced outs.
> Absolutely superb.
> 
> The only dac I use is the Schiit Bifrost 2 and it stood up to the Chord Hugo TT2 for a LOT LESS $$$.
> ...


Well sure, I agree about Jot2 + balanced + high gain for the HEDDphone.

I was replying to someone who asked to compare BF2/Jot2 to BF2/Element, since I own both. Made more sense in the context to go SE + low gain to even the playing field somewhat.


----------



## Ripper2860

Quit playing these HEDD games, dammit!  They are definitely on my wish list.  😄


----------



## adydula

Remember the Schiit Jot2 has low and high gain with both the SE and Balanced circuits...and the feedback used is different...

So there could be differences in how well it sounds and would drive various headphones based on their efficiency

Glad u like yours, I had and still have the OG Jot 1 and had the Bifrost 1 and now the B2.

Both stellar amps and dacs....


----------



## adydula

Ripper2860 said:


> Quit playing these HEDD games, dammit!  They are definitely on my wish list.  😄


Ha!

They are big, they are heavy, they are superb headphones at a cost that competes with cans that cost a ton more of $$$.

I am down to the Hedds, Empyreans, Clear MG Pros, HD 650..and a bunch of lesser cans...

Its possible Hedd might come out with another headphone, but the OC Hedd is a classic.


----------



## singularitykid

adydula said:


> Remember the Schiit Jot2 has low and high gain with both the SE and Balanced circuits...and the feedback used is different...
> 
> So there could be differences in how well it sounds and would drive various headphones based on their efficiency
> 
> ...


Yeah I get it, and my method of 'balancing out' the amps is obviously flawed, but the other poster wasn't asking which of the two amps drives the HEDDphone the best, he was asking about the sound difference between both combo's. So by using SE and low gain on the Jot2 I may not have been driving my headphones optimally, but I was underserving them in a somewhat comparable way to how the Element II underserves them (although, really, it doesn't fare all that badly). I think the differences I could spot that way largely match up with what you'd expect going by other reviews of the Jot2, so I'm hopefully not too far off, and my comparison is useful to the poster asking for it.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

I was the one asking for the comparison. I really appreciate you taking the time to compare the two amps and posting your impressions.

I’ve always assumed my EL Amp II was pretty good with the BF2, but it’s helpful to know the Jot2 wasn’t head and shoulders better. I’m patiently awaiting my first tube amp to match up with my BF2 and Verite Closed. I’m hoping it’s quite the upgrade from my JDS amp. Only time will tell.


----------



## joseG86

After a few days, I almost didn't believe it..... I had a problem with Delta-Sigma *Gustard X16*: *Female voices were sounding metalic in the edges*, I really hated that and I was crazy about it because no matter what I did it was always this metallic wet tube like sound with female singers....

*That is no longer happening with the Bifrost 2. *

It's been almost a week and while I didn't find any sonic differences with the X16 and I no longer have MQA or DSD but I'm not missing delta-sigma at all. (MQA hhahhah)

I'll post soon when I compare them in a serious A/B test.


----------



## theveterans

joseG86 said:


> After a few days, I almost didn't believe it..... I had a problem with Delta-Sigma *Gustard X16*: *Female voices were sounding metalic in the edges*, I really hated that and I was crazy about it because no matter what I did it was always this metallic wet tube like sound with female singers....
> 
> *That is no longer happening with the Bifrost 2. *
> 
> ...



It's a tell tale sign of a cookie cutter DS DAC design. The well implemented ones sound like R2R OS timbre, but with more resolution and incisiveness where if I didn't look at that its specs, I wouldn't even thought it was DS in the first place though they cost many more times than BF2


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Just wanted to say thanks for all the valuable information in this thread! I am on the fence as far as getting a BF2, I have many dacs, Gustard x16, Schiit Modius, ifi Zen, Xduoo TA-10R, and was thinking about just trying a Modi Multibit to see what it did for me. After reading all your impressions I am closer to a BF2...

Thanks again!


----------



## erroneous

Perhaps my ears are full of lead, but I've been A/Bing Bifrost2 vs Yggdrasil A2 using Verite Closed and Aeolus through an EC Aficionado amp and there's really not much of a difference.
The Bifrost 2 has a tiny veil compared to Ygg, the Ygg has longer decay. I'll have to do more comparison to determine stage depth/size, but they're really not far apart. 

There was actually a more noticeable difference between Bifrost 2 and Gungnir Multibit A2. There's the obvious tonal difference (Gungnir is pretty darn neutral), but it's immediately evident when A/Bing them that Gungnir pushes the stage back, has longer decay and more texture in the bass notes. I still preferred Bifrost 2 to Gungnir (even though I loved the positive attributes of the Gungnir).

I'm getting pretty close to being ready to sell Ygg because Bifrost 2 is just so close to it and with the Autonomy feature I won't have to pay $200 in round trip shipping to get my DAC upgraded again.


----------



## theveterans

erroneous said:


> Perhaps my ears are full of lead, but I've been A/Bing Bifrost2 vs Yggdrasil A2 using Verite Closed and Aeolus through an EC Aficionado amp and there's really not much of a difference.
> The Bifrost 2 has a tiny veil compared to Ygg, the Ygg has longer decay. I'll have to do more comparison to determine stage depth/size, but they're really not far apart.
> 
> There was actually a more noticeable difference between Bifrost 2 and Gungnir Multibit A2. There's the obvious tonal difference (Gungnir is pretty darn neutral), but it's immediately evident when A/Bing them that Gungnir pushes the stage back, has longer decay and more texture in the bass notes. I still preferred Bifrost 2 to Gungnir (even though I loved the positive attributes of the Gungnir).
> ...



You're dead accurate. BF2 is that close to Yggdrasil A2 in sheer resolution and almost the same tonality. Gungnir A2 has a leaner tonality but have better bass definition (due to its leaner tonality) as I've also heard them during my visit at Schiitr.


----------



## Neweymatt

erroneous said:


> Perhaps my ears are full of lead, but I've been A/Bing Bifrost2 vs Yggdrasil A2 using Verite Closed and Aeolus through an EC Aficionado amp and there's really not much of a difference.
> The Bifrost 2 has a tiny veil compared to Ygg, the Ygg has longer decay. I'll have to do more comparison to determine stage depth/size, but they're really not far apart.
> 
> There was actually a more noticeable difference between Bifrost 2 and Gungnir Multibit A2. There's the obvious tonal difference (Gungnir is pretty darn neutral), but it's immediately evident when A/Bing them that Gungnir pushes the stage back, has longer decay and more texture in the bass notes. I still preferred Bifrost 2 to Gungnir (even though I loved the positive attributes of the Gungnir).
> ...


Yeah, it was impressions like this vs the higher-end DACs, and the fact it is field-upgradable that convinced me BF2 was the sweet spot for me.  

It was a bit more expensive than I had initially wanted to spend, esp vs ModiMB or Modius, but I have absolutely zero regrets, and I'm even more convinced now of it's long-term place either on my desk or in some other future system.


----------



## erroneous

Putting my money where my mouth is, just sold my Ygg A2. Now will proceed with Bifrost2 for both systems but also wish I had Gungnir A2 back just as a neutral A/B again.


----------



## joseG86

*New discover and fix (video related):

Bifrost 2 USB causes very high DPC latency and crackling/noise/stuttering sound artifacts* with some *new encoded movies in MKV and audio E-AC-3 JOC when using NVIDIA Cuvid or DVXA (copy-back) as decoder*, *this also happens with Gustard X16 using USB*. (Windows 10 x64)

This is the first time something like this happened to me, not also this movie but many I have. The one causing trouble was Zack Snyder's Justice League 2021 2160p HDR with K-Lite codec pack (MPC-HC, LAV filters for audio/video and MadVR for directshow with exclusive mode and bitstreaming set @ audio renderer. This problem was also experienced using PotPlayer


*Fix 1:*
Use DVXA Native if you have LAV filters






*Fix 2:*
Connect Bifrost 2 using optical cable to TV and set NVIDIA High Definition Audio as primary audio device for the movie if you have this problem (don't forget to switch Bifrost 2 to optical)





If you are experiencing this crackling/popping issue give it a try and use your TV as optical streamer or just switch hardware decoder.


----------



## tameral

So is it somewhat contraindicated to use Reveal+ with Bifrost2?

I read a post that said that doing EQ before the multibit dac was - while not quite contraindicated - less optimal than with non-multibit dacs

Curious for opinions on this opinion.


----------



## Raptor34

erroneous said:


> Putting my money where my mouth is, just sold my Ygg A2. Now will proceed with Bifrost2 for both systems but also wish I had Gungnir A2 back just as a neutral A/B again.


Tell me, do you actually listen to music or just A/B music.


----------



## Ripper2860

Somebody get a rope.


----------



## RickB

People who have ordered and received a Bifrost recently, is the 7-10 day shipping time accurate? How long did yours take to ship?

Thanks.


----------



## Minkypou

Raptor34 said:


> Tell me, do you actually listen to music or just A/B music.


if you have the possibility to compare , its a nice way to know the device you prefer so you can proceed to enjoy the music knowing you made the right choice..


----------



## Aerocraft67

RickB said:


> People who have ordered and received a Bifrost recently, is the 7-10 day shipping time accurate? How long did yours take to ship?
> 
> Thanks.



Mine took four days earlier this month. Best I can tell, they drove it across the country, switching trucks seven times. Worth the wait, though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What's wrong with A/B'ing music? 😂


----------



## Ripper2860

Absolutely nothing wrong with A/B ing music.

Anyone have any tips on how I can double blind A/B test  when by myself?  I've heard that double blind is the only valid method and the wife won't help.  😒


----------



## Aerocraft67

Right after I got my first real-ish job in the mid 90s, I bought a stereo. The NAD 705 was pretty much the best receiver worth getting before jumping up to separates (the entry level Adcom components were nearly the same price each). The 705 was about $450, about the same as the Bifrost 2 in today's dollars. 

I guess I never graduated from mid fi. The Bifrost 2 is the most I've ever spent on a single component. A very worthy upgrade over the Modi Multibit. Totally renewed my enthusiasm for listening. 

I like the DAC-heavy allocation to my system. I figure the cost is shared between two chains, monitors and headphones. I considered a pairing with Jotunheim 2, but opted to stick with the MCTH and feed the Tannoy 802s directly from the DAC (well, via a balanced passive volume control). I'm confident I'm getting the most out of the downstream components, but I don't think the DAC outclasses either chain. 

Oddly hard to find a good balanced passive volume control. I got a Palmer Monicon, which I like a lot. Real solid. Turns out I must have had a ground loop problem, because switching to balanced cables stopped humming in one of my monitors. 

After a lifetime of horizontal investments (home theater, Bluesound speakers around the house, several desktop sidegrades), the Bifrost 2 might be the most significant upgrade I've made. 

I figure you don't need another take on the sound. Suffice to say it does nothing wrong, and that I attribute most artifacts and anomalies to my downstream gear. Really happy with this thing.


----------



## erroneous

Raptor34 said:


> Tell me, do you actually listen to music or just A/B music.


I've been refining headphone system #1 and putting together headphone system #2. I want to make sure synergy is on point and have them both exactly where I want them to be. Gotta put in the work. Thankfully the "work" just involves listening to headphones 🙂.


----------



## joseG86

One question if I may: Does anyone set bitrate to 16/44.1 for the super mega burrito spicy sauce to work or it is always enabled no matter the bits and bitrate?

Thanks!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 24, 2021)

Always in play.  BF2 oversamples (8x) and uses MCB at all input bitrates, unlike BF MB v1 and Modi Multibit which did not oversample at 192KHz (4x only) and was essentially a NOS DAC at that bitrate.


----------



## kumar402

Ripper2860 said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with A/B ing music.
> 
> Anyone have any tips on how I can double blind A/B test  when by myself?  I've heard that double blind is the only valid method and the wife won't help.  😒


Use some switcher like Sys and change the input using knob multiple time and its a matter of time before you forget which is which and then take notes.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 24, 2021)

So then if I REALLY like one how do I know which one I liked.  

(JK -- I can look around back and see which is connected where.)


----------



## theveterans

joseG86 said:


> One question if I may: Does anyone set bitrate to 16/44.1 for the super mega burrito spicy sauce to work or it is always enabled no matter the bits and bitrate?
> 
> Thanks!



I always use WASAPI exclusive to keep the bits and sample rate bit-perfect. The more Hi-res the sample, the less of the burrito filter is being used, but everything PCM will be oversampled to either 352.8 KHz or 384 KHz in the SHARC DSP chip before going to the AD5781ARUZ DAC chip.


----------



## joseG86

theveterans said:


> I always use WASAPI exclusive to keep the bits and sample rate bit-perfect. The more Hi-res the sample, the less of the burrito filter is being used, but everything PCM will be oversampled to either 352.8 KHz or 384 KHz in the SHARC DSP chip before going to the AD5781ARUZ DAC chip.


I use ASIO for bit-perfect and WASAPI shared for when I want EQ, I guess it is the same ASIO and WASAPI Exclusive (event)  as long as it is bit-perfect right?


----------



## chillaxing

Probably asked already but has anyone compared the bifrost2 multibit jot2 stacked with just the jot2 with multibit module?


----------



## theveterans

joseG86 said:


> I use ASIO for bit-perfect and WASAPI shared for when I want EQ, I guess it is the same ASIO and WASAPI Exclusive (event)  as long as it is bit-perfect right?



Yes. ASIO is not available with Unison USB though so you have to use ASIO4All instead. WASAPI exclusive does not allow EQ as far as I know and is bit perfect unlike the WASAPI shared option


----------



## joseG86

I am experiencing Audio Nirvana with Bf2/Jot2 and Focal Clear.... Impressive, did I reach the point where I don't spend more money? Did I really get it?...


----------



## emorrison33

RickB said:


> People who have ordered and received a Bifrost recently, is the 7-10 day shipping time accurate? How long did yours take to ship?
> 
> Thanks.


I ordered mine 10 days ago, and it has not shipped yet.


----------



## joseG86

emorrison33 said:


> I ordered mine 10 days ago, and it has not shipped yet.


Patience, it is not going to be just the fact of receiving it.

You'll need a few days, at first it will let you taste a bit of its enchantment but after 1 or 2 weeks with it powered on 24/7 then one day the real magic will happen, it's gonna be worth it!


----------



## 2ndWedge

joseG86 said:


> I am experiencing Audio Nirvana with Bf2/Jot2 and Focal Clear.... Impressive, did I reach the point where I don't spend more money? Did I really get it?...


So you think you've reached the end point, lets try a few tests.  We will start with what is supposed to be a reference recoeding for setting up room acoustics, search 'Tears of Stone' by 'The Chieftans'; go to track 2 and see if Bonny Raits voice has any unwanted digital artifacts when she sings 'A Stor Mo Chroi'.  Hopefully you passed that one OK, (I did 4 months ago, but now I can't).  Next search 'Roseanne Cash - Carrie'.  This song is off a nice Lullaby album and maybe its not recorded correctly but when she sings "oh My Carrie' for the 1st time its loaded with unwanted digital artifacts (at least for me). And finally the torture test, search for 'Label Focus 2L', 3rd track is Ralph Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis', between minute 2 and minute 3 the violins will get screechy and muddled (at least for me).  If you hear all this clearly, congrats, you have truly made it.  As for me I am in queue with my Bifrost for the Unison upgrade board but I feel the real culprit may be using a Mac mini with Audirvana as a streamer or maybe its my router, etc, etc. or maybe its Elon's satellites (LOL).


----------



## 2ndWedge

2ndWedge said:


> So you think you've reached the end point, lets try a few tests.  We will start with what is supposed to be a reference recoeding for setting up room acoustics, search 'Tears of Stone' by 'The Chieftans'; go to track 2 and see if Bonny Raits voice has any unwanted digital artifacts when she sings 'A Stor Mo Chroi'.  Hopefully you passed that one OK, (I did 4 months ago, but now I can't).  Next search 'Roseanne Cash - Carrie'.  This song is off a nice Lullaby album and maybe its not recorded correctly but when she sings "oh My Carrie' for the 1st time its loaded with unwanted digital artifacts (at least for me). And finally the torture test, search for 'Label Focus 2L', 3rd track is Ralph Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis', between minute 2 and minute 3 the violins will get screechy and muddled (at least for me).  If you hear all this clearly, congrats, you have truly made it.  As for me I am in queue with my Bifrost for the Unison upgrade board but I feel the real culprit may be using a Mac mini with Audirvana as a streamer or maybe its my router, etc, etc. or maybe its Elon's satellites (LOL).


P.S. I used Tidal for the above tests.


----------



## emorrison33

joseG86 said:


> Patience, it is not going to be just the fact of receiving it.
> 
> You'll need a few days, at first it will let you taste a bit of its enchantment but after 1 or 2 weeks with it powered on 24/7 then one day the real magic will happen, it's gonna be worth it!


Wasn't being impatient, just giving RickB an idea of shipping time to answer his question.  But yes, I can hardly wait for it to ship! LOL


----------



## RickB

emorrison33 said:


> I ordered mine 10 days ago, and it has not shipped yet.


I ordered on the 17th and still waiting for it to ship.

Almost all of their stuff is slow ship or backordered, maybe they should stop taking new orders until they get caught up?


----------



## Tralfaz

joseG86 said:


> I am experiencing Audio Nirvana with Bf2/Jot2 and Focal Clear.... Impressive, did I reach the point where I don't spend more money? Did I really get it?...


I agree completely!  I have a very similar setup (Lyr 3 rather than Jot 2 with my BF 2 and Focal Clears) which I'm really loving these days, to the point where I've stopped scanning the classifieds.  The BF2 makes even poorly-recorded music compelling, which is a terrific feat.


----------



## joseG86

Tralfaz said:


> to the point where I've stopped scanning the classifieds.


Hahahahahahahah I feel you!!


----------



## RickB

While I'm waiting for my Bifrost 2, I should say that the Modi Multibit w/ Eitr is absolutely amazing with the Asgard 3 (which I received early this month). So many wow moments. I have questioned my Bifrost order, but the problem is I am greedy and want to see how much better it can get.


----------



## sennfan83261 (Mar 29, 2021)

RickB said:


> While I'm waiting for my Bifrost 2, I should say that the Modi Multibit w/ Eitr is absolutely amazing with the Asgard 3 (which I received early this month). So many wow moments. I have questioned my Bifrost order, but the problem is I am greedy and want to see how much better it can get.


I ran the Modi Multibit v2 w/ the Eitr for awhile and let me just say that the BF2 is on another level IMO.


----------



## Guidostrunk

sennfan83261 said:


> I ran the Modi Multibit v2 w/ the Eitr for the awhile and let me just say that the BF2 is on another level IMO.


Absolutely agree. Went from the same combo to the Airist r2r to Denafrips Ares and now BF2. BF2 bests them all to my ears.


----------



## Neweymatt

2ndWedge said:


> So you think you've reached the end point, lets try a few tests.  We will start with what is supposed to be a reference recoeding for setting up room acoustics, search 'Tears of Stone' by 'The Chieftans'; go to track 2 and see if Bonny Raits voice has any unwanted digital artifacts when she sings 'A Stor Mo Chroi'.  Hopefully you passed that one OK, (I did 4 months ago, but now I can't).  Next search 'Roseanne Cash - Carrie'.  This song is off a nice Lullaby album and maybe its not recorded correctly but when she sings "oh My Carrie' for the 1st time its loaded with unwanted digital artifacts (at least for me). And finally the torture test, search for 'Label Focus 2L', 3rd track is Ralph Vaughan Williams: Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis', between minute 2 and minute 3 the violins will get screechy and muddled (at least for me).  If you hear all this clearly, congrats, you have truly made it.  As for me I am in queue with my Bifrost for the Unison upgrade board but I feel the real culprit may be using a Mac mini with Audirvana as a streamer or maybe its my router, etc, etc. or maybe its Elon's satellites (LOL).


What will these digital artefacts sound like?  All I hear with my BF2 through Asgard3 in high-gain with either LCD2-C or IER-Z1R is really great.  Especially the 2L compilation, thanks for that!


----------



## 2ndWedge

Neweymatt said:


> What will these digital artefacts sound like?  All I hear with my BF2 through Asgard3 in high-gain with either LCD2-C or IER-Z1R is really great.  Especially the 2L compilation, thanks for that!


Aha, well I have a lot of work to do on my system then since you hear these tracks clearly, especially bad on speakers for me, tolerable with headphones.  I am # 71 for the Bifrost unison upgrade, still curious about a pi based streamer resolving some of my problems but it really does sound like I have a problem with jitter.  Will wait for the Bifrost upgrade though before another move on anything else.


----------



## schneller

erroneous said:


> Putting my money where my mouth is, just sold my Ygg A2. Now will proceed with Bifrost2 for both systems but also wish I had Gungnir A2 back just as a neutral A/B again.



I am impressed!


----------



## MrPanda (Mar 29, 2021)

Tralfaz said:


> I agree completely!  I have a very similar setup (Lyr 3 rather than Jot 2 with my BF 2 and Focal Clears) which I'm really loving these days, to the point where I've stopped scanning the classifieds.  The BF2 makes even poorly-recorded music compelling, which is a terrific feat.


I have the same setup but with the new Focal Clear MG's.   So much better!    -- Actually, they're a bit more refined in the treble, and even better with subtle dynamics.  All the great stuff from the original with a little extra of all the right stuff, and much improved stock cables.  That is, BF2, Jot2, and Clear MG's.  Stellia still outperform the Clears in most areas.


----------



## TheRealDz

I am somewhat torn between getting the BF2 or Ares 2.  I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the two...




Guidostrunk said:


> Absolutely agree. Went from the same combo to the Airist r2r to Denafrips Ares and now BF2. BF2 bests them all to my ears.


----------



## erroneous

Read reviews here and there. They favor the Bifrost 2 by far, but do your own research if you don't have the opportunity to A/B them yourself.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TheRealDz said:


> I am somewhat torn between getting the BF2 or Ares 2.  I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the two...


Between the two it really comes down to preference. The Ares is warmer, less dynamic, airier with a wide stage but lacks depth and layering in the image. BF2 sounds more natural to me. The stage is just as wide but the height and depth are equal to the width. The imaging/ layering on the BF2 is insane! It's a very holographic portrayal of the music in an inky black background. Then add in the dynamics and reverb trails and I literally live on the edge of my seat while listening lol. Bass impact and slam is where things really separate. The BF2 is on another level. Everything is so visceral through the whole frequency response on the BF2 which delivers such an emotional connection to what you're listening to. Vocals are spooky real sounding on BF2. 

To me the Ares sounded more relaxed and laid back. Don't get me wrong now. The Ares is a great dac. It just lacked the intensity and engagement factor that met my needs. 

With that said there's the usual disclaimer that I always finish with. 

It's all subjective and it's just another opinion from another user. Lol.


----------



## joseG86

Guidostrunk said:


> Between the two it really comes down to preference. The Ares is warmer, less dynamic, airier with a wide stage but lacks depth and layering in the image. BF2 sounds more natural to me. The stage is just as wide but the height and depth are equal to the width. The imaging/ layering on the BF2 is insane! It's a very holographic portrayal of the music in an inky black background. Then add in the dynamics and reverb trails and I literally live on the edge of my seat while listening lol. Bass impact and slam is where things really separate. The BF2 is on another level. Everything is so visceral through the whole frequency response on the BF2 which delivers such an emotional connection to what you're listening to. Vocals are spooky real sounding on BF2.
> 
> To me the Ares sounded more relaxed and laid back. Don't get me wrong now. The Ares is a great dac. It just lacked the intensity and engagement factor that met my needs.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the information, I was between BF2 and Ares after getting rid of D90, I am very glad I decided to go BF2 so far and even more now after reading people like you.


----------



## tameral

Can't get enough of the bifrost 2 out of my near-field monitors.  Hard to beat the clarity, dynamics and soundstage that the bifrost 2 has particularly enabled.  Headphones are a nice change of pace though


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Guidostrunk said:


> Between the two it really comes down to preference. The Ares is warmer, less dynamic, airier with a wide stage but lacks depth and layering in the image. BF2 sounds more natural to me. The stage is just as wide but the height and depth are equal to the width. The imaging/ layering on the BF2 is insane! It's a very holographic portrayal of the music in an inky black background. Then add in the dynamics and reverb trails and I literally live on the edge of my seat while listening lol. Bass impact and slam is where things really separate. The BF2 is on another level. Everything is so visceral through the whole frequency response on the BF2 which delivers such an emotional connection to what you're listening to. Vocals are spooky real sounding on BF2.
> 
> To me the Ares sounded more relaxed and laid back. Don't get me wrong now. The Ares is a great dac. It just lacked the intensity and engagement factor that met my needs.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this! I have been following this thread closely, and my decision is almost at the BF2 over the RME.

It's impressions like this that are invaluable, even though I am more a speaker than headphone guy I appreciate both equally. Some personal issues prevent me from enjoying headphones to their potential. 

Descriptions like this make me want to buy it now! thanks again!

Cheers


----------



## kumar402

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Thank you so much for this! I have been following this thread closely, and my decision is almost at the BF2 over the RME.
> 
> It's impressions like this that are invaluable, even though I am more a speaker than headphone guy I appreciate both equally. Some personal issues prevent me from enjoying headphones to their potential.
> 
> ...


Schiit has decent return policy so you can try out for almost 2 weeks and then make an informed decision.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

kumar402 said:


> Schiit has decent return policy so you can try out for almost 2 weeks and then make an informed decision.


Yes they do, Thanks for that.

Have many pieces of Schiit and haven't returned any yet, so I'm guessing this will be no different...


----------



## Ripper2860 (Mar 30, 2021)

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> even though I am more a speaker than headphone guy I appreciate both equally.



Many say that the benefits of BF2 are actually equally or sometimes more evident in 2ch speaker setups.  That's why I have 2 of them -- 1x for the speaker rig and one for my HP rig.


----------



## Zachik

Ripper2860 said:


> Many say that the benefits of BF2 are actually equally or sometimes more evident in 2ch speaker setups.  That's why I have 2 of them -- 1x for the speaker rig and one for my HP rig.


So would it be reasonable to say that you have BF4?


----------



## joseG86

Another beautiful experience today with BF2 and this song Evangelion - Hedgehong's Dilemma

Feeling yourself in front of musicians while being lockdown....


----------



## 2ndWedge

Neweymatt said:


> What will these digital artefacts sound like?  All I hear with my BF2 through Asgard3 in high-gain with either LCD2-C or IER-Z1R is really great.  Especially the 2L compilation, thanks for that!


Yeah, I like the Tidal Masters playlists, I just ignore that its MQA.  Key in Tidal Masters, then 'see all' and there are dozens, my fav is 'Folk and Americana', and the Mercury label.  though I do use a Dragonfly Red from time to time with Audirvana set to auto detect MQA but it turns pink from red not purple on these playlists - another mystery for me.


----------



## 2ndWedge

2ndWedge said:


> Yeah, I like the Tidal Masters playlists, I just ignore that its MQA.  Key in Tidal Masters, then 'see all' and there are dozens, my fav is 'Folk and Americana', and the Mercury label.  though I do use a Dragonfly Red from time to time with Audirvana set to auto detect MQA but it turns pink from red not purple on these playlists - another mystery for me.


On the ‘label focus, Mercury - tidal masters, track 6 ‘War of 1812’ track uses the real cannons used in the war (check the cover art) but watch your eardrums.  On speakers it might get you thrown out of the house.


----------



## Neweymatt

tameral said:


> Can't get enough of the bifrost 2 out of my near-field monitors.  Hard to beat the clarity, dynamics and soundstage that the bifrost 2 has particularly enabled.  Headphones are a nice change of pace though


Been thinking about getting a pair of monitors, what are you using?


----------



## tameral

What works in some rooms will work less well in others.  Spend 800$ total and you are far outclassing any 800$ headphone in soundstage, punch and slam.  The main advantage for me is you get that fullness in the sound without needing to turn it up very loud.  No fun when you are turning it up to get a nice rich sound on headphones and the treble monster comes and takes a big bite out of your ear.


----------



## nasty nate

Spending time with the BF2 every day - today the Skyrim Soundtrack - specifically: _Ancient Stones _has me almost in tears. This game was a huge part of my childhood and this setup takes me right back. 

Nothing like some orchestral soundtracks, the BF2, and HD800S


----------



## Coran

Well schiit...looks like my Bifrost 2 is overheating. Turned it on and got no audio, after 15 minutes started to smell some uh...very hot electronics. Infrared thermometer read the surface temp at 122 before I turned it off. I normally never shut the Bifrost off, so I'd hate to have this happen while I'm sleeping or something.

Has anyone had this issue? How long is the turnaround when Schiit might be able to get me a replacement? I sent them an email, hope they get back to me soon.


----------



## kumar402

Coran said:


> Well schiit...looks like my Bifrost 2 is overheating. Turned it on and got no audio, after 15 minutes started to smell some uh...very hot electronics. Infrared thermometer read the surface temp at 122 before I turned it off. I normally never shut the Bifrost off, so I'd hate to have this happen while I'm sleeping or something.
> 
> Has anyone had this issue? How long is the turnaround when Schiit might be able to get me a replacement? I sent them an email, hope they get back to me soon.


dont worry they will take care of you. they are pretty fast.
i hope you connect all your electronics to a good surge protector and the mains have earthing.
In case you don’t then get a good surge protector for future.


----------



## Coran

kumar402 said:


> dont worry they will take care of you. they are pretty fast.
> i hope you connect all your electronics to a good surge protector and the mains have earthing.
> In case you don’t then get a good surge protector for future.



Oh yeah, everything of mine is on a great surge protector/UPS. I'm just glad this happened when I was awake and actively troubleshooting the unit. 

Schiit already replied and said they would set up an exchange right away. So that's really good at least.


----------



## erroneous

Has anyone done testing of Bifrost 2 against Gungnir A1 with both running balanced out? If so, how did the Bifrost hold up against its bigger, older brother?


----------



## Smoothstereo

Coran said:


> Well schiit...looks like my Bifrost 2 is overheating. Turned it on and got no audio, after 15 minutes started to smell some uh...very hot electronics. Infrared thermometer read the surface temp at 122 before I turned it off. I normally never shut the Bifrost off, so I'd hate to have this happen while I'm sleeping or something.
> 
> Has anyone had this issue? How long is the turnaround when Schiit might be able to get me a replacement? I sent them an email, hope they get back to me soon.


How long did you have your BF2 before this happened?


----------



## Coran

Smoothstereo said:


> How long did you have your BF2 before this happened?


It was delivered on March 6th of this year. It functioned pretty perfectly the whole time. I left it on since I got it (which should be ok, according to Schiit). I only turned it off last because there is a bit of a heat wave and really didn't need anything else producing heat in my office. The next morning, I flipped the switch, and no sound. It didn't do its normal 'click' when the USB engages. After 20 minutes (of me mostly looking for answers online), I noticed the smell. Got out the infrared thermometer and the top of the unit was at 122F. Shut it off and unplugged it in a hurry. Schiit will send me a replacement as soon as I drop this one at FedEx, thankfully.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Coran said:


> It was delivered on March 6th of this year. It functioned pretty perfectly the whole time. I left it on since I got it (which should be ok, according to Schiit). I only turned it off last because there is a bit of a heat wave and really didn't need anything else producing heat in my office. The next morning, I flipped the switch, and no sound. It didn't do its normal 'click' when the USB engages. After 20 minutes (of me mostly looking for answers online), I noticed the smell. Got out the infrared thermometer and the top of the unit was at 122F. Shut it off and unplugged it in a hurry. Schiit will send me a replacement as soon as I drop this one at FedEx, thankfully.


Ok I see. Hopefully your replacement unit is trouble free. I had my BF2 about over 2 months, so far so good. I don't leave it on all the time though due to habit of turning all my stuff off if I am not using it.


----------



## kumar402

Coran said:


> It was delivered on March 6th of this year. It functioned pretty perfectly the whole time. I left it on since I got it (which should be ok, according to Schiit). I only turned it off last because there is a bit of a heat wave and really didn't need anything else producing heat in my office. The next morning, I flipped the switch, and no sound. It didn't do its normal 'click' when the USB engages. After 20 minutes (of me mostly looking for answers online), I noticed the smell. Got out the infrared thermometer and the top of the unit was at 122F. Shut it off and unplugged it in a hurry. Schiit will send me a replacement as soon as I drop this one at FedEx, thankfully.


I can see the temptation of keeping multibit DAC on all the time. I also keep it on. Could you please follow up with Schiit on what happened and how can it be avoided


----------



## Ripper2860

I've had my 1st BF2 powered on practically the entire time since installing it on 10/7/2019.  My 2nd BF2 the same since early 2020.  Neither have had any issues, so I feel pretty confident in saying the issue described above is not related to leaving the unit powered on and likely very isolated given the lack of issues reported like this in this thread.

Sorry for your bad luck.  I'm sure your replacement will be trouble free!


----------



## Coran

Ripper2860 said:


> I've had my 1st BF2 powered on practically the entire time since installing it on 10/7/2019.  My 2nd BF2 the same since early 2020.  Neither have had any issues, so I feel pretty confident in saying the issue described above is not related to leaving the unit powered on and likely very isolated given the lack of issues reported like this in this thread.
> 
> Sorry for your bad luck.  I'm sure your replacement will be trouble free!


Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances. Thankfully Schiit customer service is pretty on top of it and I'll have my replacement in no time. I'm also glad I have a small cheap DAC around as a backup.


----------



## mab1376

Coran said:


> Oh yeah, I'm sure it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances. Thankfully Schiit customer service is pretty on top of it and I'll have my replacement in no time. I'm also glad I have a small cheap DAC around as a backup.



That's good you caught it while awake, mine was delivered 7/5 and has only been turned off long enough a few times to move to another room. It's really warm under my Jot2; don't have an exact temp, but it seems ok to the touch in a 77F room, and no burning smell. It seems to have gotten warmer after connecting the Jot2 with XLR, previously it was a Lyr2 with SE only. I wasn't really concerned until seeing your post. 😨


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 3, 2021)

This solved any concerns of heat when stacking gear and related heat on my BF2.  The addtional air between the stacked components really helped and they also provide very good vibration absorption.

https://amazon.com/Platinum-Silicon...ywords=hudson+hifi+feet&qid=1617428539&sr=8-3

BTW -- Jason has stated that stacking Schiit amps on BF2 will not present an issue.  It was designed so one can have Jot, Lyr3, etc., stacked.  He stated BF2 would not have a 5 year warranty if they thought heat would be an issue heat with stacking.  I have one of my BF2 under a Valhalla 2 and I cannot imagine a hotter HP amp!


----------



## cgb3

joseG86 said:


> I am experiencing Audio Nirvana with Bf2/Jot2 and Focal Clear.... Impressive, did I reach the point where I don't spend more money? Did I really get it?...


"did I reach the point where I don't spend more money? Did I really get it?..."

No more crazy-talk. Money follows dreams, and we always dream.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I ordered mine a while ago. “In stock” is a bit misleading on the website


----------



## RickB (Apr 4, 2021)

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I ordered mine a while ago. “In stock” is a bit misleading on the website


Mine took 11 days to ship. I think demand is so high they build them as they get orders and can’t keep up.


----------



## emorrison33

RickB said:


> Mine took 11 days to ship. I think demand is so high they build them as they get orders and can’t keep up.


Mine took 14 days IIRC.  I think I read somewhere, in one of Jason's posts, or maybe one of his YouTube videos, that there is only one guy who assembles the Bifrost.


----------



## Crowbar44

Does anyone know if you can switch between the balanced and single ended outputs on Bifrost 2?  Specifically - I'd like to send the balanced output to my headphone amp and the unbalanced output to my powered speakers that have their own volume control...


----------



## joseG86

Crowbar44 said:


> Does anyone know if you can switch between the balanced and single ended outputs on Bifrost 2?  Specifically - I'd like to send the balanced output to my headphone amp and the unbalanced output to my powered speakers that have their own volume control...


Both at the same time


----------



## Crowbar44

joseG86 said:


> Both at the same time


Ah - so not switchable...I guess I could turn off the powered monitors when listening to headphones...


----------



## kumar402

Crowbar44 said:


> Ah - so not switchable...I guess I could turn off the powered monitors when listening to headphones...


Yes, both output are active all the time. So you have to switch off one of the downstream device when not in use.


----------



## Mightygrey

I've just had a phono-equipped Jotunheim 2 arrive, which is now happily parked on top of my Bifrost 2. 

I must say that this combo is a pretty formidable pairing. It has no less than six inputs...

- Phono
- XLR
- RCA
- USB
- Coaxial
- Optical

...and I seriously need every single one of them for use in my system. Oh, and it sounds absolutely terrific playing out of my OG Clears via Roon/USB via the balanced output. Highly recommended.


----------



## stuck limo

Do people recommend a darker amp with the BF2 or is a more neutral amp (like SPL Phonitor XE or THX amp) OK?


----------



## stuck limo

Guidostrunk said:


> Just had caps upgraded in my MJ2 and it took about 3 days of constant running to get the amp to settle in. I do believe gear needs a period to burn in to sound its best when new.
> The MJ2 was strident and glaring out of the box after mods.
> 
> Really digging the MJ2/BF2 combo with my Clears.



Why did you decide to upgrade the caps and what did it change on the amp?


----------



## nasty nate

stuck limo said:


> Do people recommend a darker amp with the BF2 or is a more neutral amp (like SPL Phonitor XE or THX amp) OK?


Depends on your headphones... I use a tube amp with BF2 for my Senns.


----------



## NCPat

Hello, 
Will return to work in Mid may. My office has a door and co-workers won't hear noise leak from open back head phones. New to headphone game, currently have Sony XM3 wireless and Apple Air Pods. First experience with headphone amp and external dac. Iphone 8plus source. Probably downloaded Quobuz and Amazon HD content - work prohibits streaming on company wifi, my phone signal weak.

Leaning towards first system similar to *JoseG86*
Focal MG Headphones, Schiit Jotunheim 2 amp, Schiit BiFrost 2 Dac.
Newbie connections - please confirm

1. Pair Balanced Pyst 10 inch from Jot Amp to Bifrost Dac.
2. Iphone8 plus to Bifrost Dac. Older phone. a)Apple Lightning Camera adapter from phone b)2m or less USB 2.0 cable from camera adapter to USB input on back of BiFrost (6 in manual). Assume this will give me "digital out" from phone into BiFrost dac USB input
3. Focal Clear MG to phone. Replace Focal clear stock xlr cable with something from from Moon Audio or Helix. Moon Dragon black 6 foot 395, 10 450. Expensive. Asked Clear Forum any cheaper option, excluding DIY.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Neweymatt

NCPat said:


> Hello,
> Will return to work in Mid may. My office has a door and co-workers won't hear noise leak from open back head phones. New to headphone game, currently have Sony XM3 wireless and Apple Air Pods. First experience with headphone amp and external dac. Iphone 8plus source. Probably downloaded Quobuz and Amazon HD content - work prohibits streaming on company wifi, my phone signal weak.
> 
> Leaning towards first system similar to *JoseG86*
> ...


Sounds like your putting together a killer system, great that your office has a door, hope it also has a heavy lock!

Balanced PYST should work fine from the BF2 to the Jot.
You will need that CCK for the iphone, Schiit also have a good USB A-B PYST cable for 20 bucks if you don’t already have one.
Cant comment on a balanced cable for your Clears, but at this point you might as well go the full measure and get a good one.

Good luck!


----------



## NCPat

Neweymatt said:


> Sounds like your putting together a killer system, great that your office has a door, hope it also has a heavy lock!
> 
> Balanced PYST should work fine from the BF2 to the Jot.
> You will need that CCK for the iphone, Schiit also have a good USB A-B PYST cable for 20 bucks if you don’t already have one.
> ...


Thanks for feedback, Neweymatt.
Looking at the USB A-B PYST cable on Schiit site. So would connect his to Apple CCK cable to back of Bifrost2 - got it.

Re my work set up. In finance/accounting without much foot traffic. Have cleaning company clean office nightly. Cleaners known to have sticky fingers - stuff disappears. Considering repurposing a camera gear bag to tote the headphones, dac and amp back and forth to work. That amp and dac are about 9x6x2 so not huge. Work has switched to Microsoft Teams phone so all calls coming to cell phone - the Cisco desk phone going away. So when call comes in, need to disconnect phone from CCK cable and pick up call. Looking to get new phone, may get latest Iphone 12 and use current IPhone 8plus for music, 64 Gig.


----------



## sp33ls

NCPat said:


> Thanks for feedback, Neweymatt.
> Looking at the USB A-B PYST cable on Schiit site. So would connect his to Apple CCK cable to back of Bifrost2 - got it.
> 
> Re my work set up. In finance/accounting without much foot traffic. Have cleaning company clean office nightly. Cleaners known to have sticky fingers - stuff disappears. Considering repurposing a camera gear bag to tote the headphones, dac and amp back and forth to work. That amp and dac are about 9x6x2 so not huge. Work has switched to Microsoft Teams phone so all calls coming to cell phone - the Cisco desk phone going away. So when call comes in, need to disconnect phone from CCK cable and pick up call. Looking to get new phone, may get latest Iphone 12 and use current IPhone 8plus for music, 64 Gig.


If I were in your shoes, I'd be seriously considering a USB dongle DAC. Something that just gets me 80% of the way there for decently driving my cans at work, without a worry of wear and tear, and having to pack them up every trip to and from the office. I've been down that road before, and it got old.


----------



## sp33ls

I just had to send my BF2 back to Schiit. Heard a loud "pop" in my right ear when using RCA output. Then, the right channel was *crazy *distorted (left channel seemed fine).

Swapping to XLR, all is normal there. When swapping inputs on the BF2 while in RCA, I heard a 'pop' everytime the relay kicked in from source to source. Didn't hear that with the XLR output either.

Not sure what happened, but it wasn't great. Fortunately, I don't think my headphone driver was damaged. I'm guessing my headamp coupling caps probably blocked any potential harmful DC from reaching the driver.

Never experienced something like this from one of their DACs before. Curious to hear what they say during the repair. I'm also curious how long it'll take for them to get around to it, given how insanely busy they've been recently.

I don't feel like lugging my Yggy GS to my desktop from my 2 channel setup, so whipping out my Dragonfly Red for backup duty. It's actually quite decent as a standalone DAC.


----------



## kumar402

sp33ls said:


> I just had to send my BF2 back to Schiit. Heard a loud "pop" in my right ear when using RCA output. Then, the right channel was *crazy *distorted (left channel seemed fine).
> 
> Swapping to XLR, all is normal there. When swapping inputs on the BF2 while in RCA, I heard a 'pop' everytime the relay kicked in from source to source. Didn't hear that with the XLR output either.
> 
> ...


This sounds scary. Did it happen during the listening session or when you turned it on? I don’t want to damage my expensive headphones due to DAC


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Well after much debate I decided to join the BF2 lovers club,   

Placed my order on the 6th, got my shipping notice today!! So 7 total days including a weekend! Must be getting caught up on their orders. Very excited to see how this compares to all my other dac's, and also enjoy a new experience with another great Schiit product!

Cheers


----------



## sp33ls

kumar402 said:


> This sounds scary. Did it happen during the listening session or when you turned it on? I don’t want to damage my expensive headphones due to DAC


Everything was already powered on and listening. I was testing some RCA cables (with XLR also inserted). Maybe something didn't like me swapping between the two every 10 seconds? Lol either way, I've had three DAC for over a year now with no issues. I'm guessing it was a pretty unique issue. Maybe I had a static discharge when adjusting the switch on my head amp? Not sure.


----------



## bboris77

I am back in the owner club as well! Ordered one yesterday, hoping to get it soon. My launch unit had some minor cosmetic/noise issues so I ended up returning for a refund. Have regretted not simply getting a replacement ever since. I remember the differences between it and a delta-sigma DAC not being earth-shattering BUT significant enough to be audible. The Bifrost 2 had better drum (cymbal, hi-hat) transients and slightly less 2-dimensional soundstage.

I also have to admit that I went through a temporary phase where I got swayed by the measurement fad and wanted to have the best measuring DAC possible. I will still be keeping my Atom DAC for when I am in the mood for a great sounding D/S AKM velvet sound DAC.

Despite the recent measurement-group propaganda that all DACs sound exactly the same, there are subtle differences in sound between AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic and Schiit Multibit chips. The differences _are _measurable as well if you know what to measure, mainly the DAC reconstruction filter response.


----------



## kumar402

sp33ls said:


> Everything was already powered on and listening. I was testing some RCA cables (with XLR also inserted). Maybe something didn't like me swapping between the two every 10 seconds? Lol either way, I've had three DAC for over a year now with no issues. I'm guessing it was a pretty unique issue. Maybe I had a static discharge when adjusting the switch on my head amp? Not sure.


May be removing or inserting RCA plus with DAC AND amp connected and powered on did something


----------



## kumar402

bboris77 said:


> I am back in the owner club as well! Ordered one yesterday, hoping to get it soon. My launch unit had some minor cosmetic/noise issues so I ended up returning for a refund. Have regretted not simply getting a replacement ever since. I remember the differences between it and a delta-sigma DAC not being earth-shattering BUT significant enough to be audible. The Bifrost 2 had better drum (cymbal, hi-hat) transients and slightly less 2-dimensional soundstage.
> 
> I also have to admit that I went through a temporary phase where I got swayed by the measurement fad and wanted to have the best measuring DAC possible. I will still be keeping my Atom DAC for when I am in the mood for a great sounding D/S AKM velvet sound DAC.
> 
> Despite the recent measurement-group propaganda that all DACs sound exactly the same, there are subtle differences in sound between AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic and Schiit Multibit chips. The differences _are _measurable as well if you know what to measure, mainly the DAC reconstruction filter response.


Welcome back to the club. We all go thru this phase and then come back. It's all part of learning and enjoying music along the way.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

bboris77 said:


> I am back in the owner club as well! Ordered one yesterday, hoping to get it soon. My launch unit had some minor cosmetic/noise issues so I ended up returning for a refund. Have regretted not simply getting a replacement ever since. I remember the differences between it and a delta-sigma DAC not being earth-shattering BUT significant enough to be audible. The Bifrost 2 had better drum (cymbal, hi-hat) transients and slightly less 2-dimensional soundstage.
> 
> I also have to admit that I went through a temporary phase where I got swayed by the measurement fad and wanted to have the best measuring DAC possible. I will still be keeping my Atom DAC for when I am in the mood for a great sounding D/S AKM velvet sound DAC.
> 
> Despite the recent measurement-group propaganda that all DACs sound exactly the same, there are subtle differences in sound between AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic and Schiit Multibit chips. The differences _are _measurable as well if you know what to measure, mainly the DAC reconstruction filter response.


Completely agree with you, and I think I've been down the same path! Maybe more than once!! Somehow I keep finding my passion for adding some type of Tube into the mix told me that instead of going the RME route, and rather go down the Schittr!!

I myself have had similar thoughts regarding different chips, and the chips are transparent yada yada talk, However...

I have this one dac from Xduoo, a TA10 R that has an AKM with what they called "Velvet" forgive me as it escapes me right now. And I love the sound of that one. When using headphones it runs thru the tube buffer, but using analog out it doesn't.

So I'm relieved I'm not the only one thats been down that road... Hopefully this will be my last dac for awhile, getting crowded up in here..


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I’m not really sure what is going on. I ordered mine almost a month ago. Product page said and still says In Stock 7-10 days. I’ve sent an email asking politely for an update 5 days ago and no one has responded to me. What’s the deal?

I don’t care if there are delays let’s just be up front about it and maybe answer customer emails. Also it’s not that hard to update the website. “In Stock” is clearly misleading


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I’m not really sure what is going on. I ordered mine almost a month ago. Product page said and still says In Stock 7-10 days. I’ve sent an email asking politely for an update 5 days ago and no one has responded to me. What’s the deal?
> 
> I don’t care if there are delays let’s just be up front about it and maybe answer customer emails. Also it’s not that hard to update the website. “In Stock” is clearly misleading


There's a phone number to call if you'd like to try, just click on the directions to us link in the contact page


----------



## soundchaos

Yeah I’d definitely give them a call if you haven’t heard back...I ordered a BF2 on April 3rd and just got a shipping notification today.


----------



## bboris77

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Completely agree with you, and I think I've been down the same path! Maybe more than once!! Somehow I keep finding my passion for adding some type of Tube into the mix told me that instead of going the RME route, and rather go down the Schittr!!
> 
> I myself have had similar thoughts regarding different chips, and the chips are transparent yada yada talk, However...
> 
> ...


Don't even get me started with the tube-rolling. I have been there and done that multiple times. I am not willing to go back there since I realized that there is too much that depends on any specific tube, so you never know if you are actually getting the sound that the designer intended. If I do go down that road ever again it would be just for schiits and giggles - something totally over the top like the upcoming Schiit 10-tube amp. In addition to this, I absolutely love my Asgard 3 and I honestly have no reason to even consider changing it.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

bboris77 said:


> Don't even get me started with the tube-rolling. I have been there and done that multiple times. I am not willing to go back there since I realized that there is too much that depends on any specific tube, so you never know if you are actually getting the sound that the designer intended. If I do go down that road ever again it would be just for schiits and giggles - something totally over the top like the upcoming Schiit 10-tube amp. In addition to this, I absolutely love my Asgard 3 and I honestly have no reason to even consider changing it.


Once again, 100 percent correct! Thankfully I have a few tube based products I'm completely happy with, and add them in as I feel like it. I know what to expect from them, and have found a few new production tubes that fit what I like so as I will try some tubes here and there, I can always drag myself back from the edge of Tube insanity..LMAO


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

phoenixbt said:


> Yeah I’d definitely give them a call if you haven’t heard back...I ordered a BF2 on April 3rd and just got a shipping notification today.


Of course no one picked up lol. Store hours are Thurs-Sun... May I ask what finish you got? I ordered a couple pyst cables with mine. That would make me really angry if a cheap cable held up my $850 order. I’d obviously rather have the DAC immediately and worry about some crappy cables later


----------



## soundchaos

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Of course no one picked up lol. Store hours are Thurs-Sun... May I ask what finish you got? I ordered a couple pyst cables with mine. That would make me really angry if a cheap cable held up my $850 order. I’d obviously rather have the DAC immediately and worry about some crappy cables later


Haha of course. I got a black one and it was the only thing in my order, so I’m not sure if that made a difference.


----------



## ThanatosVI

bboris77 said:


> the upcoming Schiit 10-tube amp.


I'm out of the loop,  whats this one about?


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Of course no one picked up lol. Store hours are Thurs-Sun... May I ask what finish you got? I ordered a couple pyst cables with mine. That would make me really angry if a cheap cable held up my $850 order. I’d obviously rather have the DAC immediately and worry about some crappy cables later


I ordered Black, most of my other pieces of schiit are Black.


----------



## bboris77

ThanatosVI said:


> I'm out of the loop,  whats this one about?


https://www.head-fi.org/goto/post?id=16164084


----------



## RickB

bboris77 said:


> I am back in the owner club as well! Ordered one yesterday, hoping to get it soon. My launch unit had some minor cosmetic/noise issues so I ended up returning for a refund. Have regretted not simply getting a replacement ever since. I remember the differences between it and a delta-sigma DAC not being earth-shattering BUT significant enough to be audible. The Bifrost 2 had better drum (cymbal, hi-hat) transients and slightly less 2-dimensional soundstage.
> 
> I also have to admit that I went through a temporary phase where I got swayed by the measurement fad and wanted to have the best measuring DAC possible. I will still be keeping my Atom DAC for when I am in the mood for a great sounding D/S AKM velvet sound DAC.
> 
> Despite the recent measurement-group propaganda that all DACs sound exactly the same, there are subtle differences in sound between AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic and Schiit Multibit chips. The differences _are _measurable as well if you know what to measure, mainly the DAC reconstruction filter response.


My Bifrost also had a slight cosmetic issue, they offered an exchange or B-stock discount, I took the discount. With the way the shipping industry is right now, it did not seem worth it doing an exchange.


----------



## tjdub

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> I ordered Black, most of my other pieces of schiit are Black.


We have the same taste


----------



## NCPat

sp33ls said:


> If I were in your shoes, I'd be seriously considering a USB dongle DAC. Something that just gets me 80% of the way there for decently driving my cans at work, without a worry of wear and tear, and having to pack them up every trip to and from the office. I've been down that road before, and it got old.


You got me to thinking...
I found a Sentry Safe Desktop Safe for about 60. 13 inches Deep by 17 wide by 5.8 height. Enough room for amp, dac and cables will take headphones home/leave in car. Still have to unpack and put away each day- with that wear and tear. so dongle may be reality. Thanks for heads up.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

tjdub said:


> We have the same taste


Yes sir! Seems we do!


----------



## 2ndWedge

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Yes sir! Seems we do!


I see you have a pi with volumio and a Mac mini with Audirvana (which is what I have).  Is the sound off the end of a Bifrost 2 really that much better with the Pi and Volumio or does the Bifrost2 somehow take care of a lot of source streamer anomalies?


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

2ndWedge said:


> I see you have a pi with volumio and a Mac mini with Audirvana (which is what I have).  Is the sound off the end of a Bifrost 2 really that much better with the Pi and Volumio or does the Bifrost2 somehow take care of a lot of source streamer anomalies?


My BF2 is not here yet, only ordered last week, should be here soon, I can answer that in due course though. As an update I have been using Roon almost exclusively now as it seemed to solve quite a few of the non sound related issues I was running into with so many pieces of equipment,lol

I brought it on myself....


----------



## Neweymatt

NCPat said:


> You got me to thinking...
> I found a Sentry Safe Desktop Safe for about 60. 13 inches Deep by 17 wide by 5.8 height. Enough room for amp, dac and cables will take headphones home/leave in car. Still have to unpack and put away each day- with that wear and tear. so dongle may be reality. Thanks for heads up.


Yeah, it would be a bit of a pain to have to unpack and pack up the larger Schiit stack every day.   Maybe instead of the separate BF2, you could get one of the DAC cards for the Jot?  Then it's just the one device to mess around with.

A dongle-DAC like AQ Dragonfly or EarMen would be the ultimate portable solution for you, but may not drive all headphones that well.

Maybe a better option to consider is the transportable-type devices from iFi like their iDSD Black Label or Diablo.


----------



## RickB

The head honcho on the site that shall not be named pretty much stated that the Bifrost only required 24 hours of warm-up to sound its best, but I had a different experience. Though my new Bifrost still sounded amazing (compared to Modi Multibit) after 24 hours, after 5 days of being powered on and listening to music with it for roughly 6 hours each day, I had an experience where the sound became very "focused" and dialed in. After 24 hours, listening to Radiohead's Amnesiac (an album I'm very familiar with), it sounded like it was missing air and the imaging was blurry. After 5 days, I listened to the album again and the air was present and the trippy awesome imaging that I associate with Amnesiac was back in all its glory. 

As always, how much of this was hardware burn-in and how much was mental burn-in, I'm not sure. All I can say is my experience of the sound definitely changed after 5 days.


----------



## cgb3 (Apr 13, 2021)

sp33ls said:


> I just had to send my BF2 back to Schiit. Heard a loud "pop" in my right ear when using RCA output. Then, the right channel was *crazy *distorted (left channel seemed fine).
> 
> Swapping to XLR, all is normal there. When swapping inputs on the BF2 while in RCA, I heard a 'pop' everytime the relay kicked in from source to source. Didn't hear that with the XLR output either.
> 
> ...


.


----------



## tjdub

RickB said:


> The head honcho on the site that shall not be named pretty much stated that the Bifrost only required 24 hours of warm-up to sound its best, but I had a different experience. Though my new Bifrost still sounded amazing (compared to Modi Multibit) after 24 hours, after 5 days of being powered on and listening to music with it for roughly 6 hours each day, I had an experience where the sound became very "focused" and dialed in. After 24 hours, listening to Radiohead's Amnesiac (an album I'm very familiar with), it sounded like it was missing air and the imaging was blurry. After 5 days, I listened to the album again and the air was present and the trippy awesome imaging that I associate with Amnesiac was back in all its glory.
> 
> As always, how much of this was hardware burn-in and how much was mental burn-in, I'm not sure. All I can say is my experience of the sound definitely changed after 5 days.


I had the same experience with both the bifrost2 and jot2


----------



## Neweymatt

2ndWedge said:


> I see you have a pi with volumio and a Mac mini with Audirvana (which is what I have).  Is the sound off the end of a Bifrost 2 really that much better with the Pi and Volumio or does the Bifrost2 somehow take care of a lot of source streamer anomalies?


Yeah, I'm keen to understand if a dedicated RPi streamer to the Bifrost2 would be better than USB from my Mac?

I had some concerns about this before getting the BF2, but thought I'd just wait and see/hear for myself.  

I've been very happy with USB from my mac and/or iPhone to the BF2, but now that it's been 6 months, I'm again curious if there is any upgrade to be had with a dedicated Pi streamer using Coax to the BF2...


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Neweymatt said:


> Yeah, I'm keen to understand if a dedicated RPi streamer to the Bifrost2 would be better than USB from my Mac?
> 
> I had some concerns about this before getting the BF2, but thought I'd just wait and see/hear for myself.
> 
> I've been very happy with USB from my mac and/or iPhone to the BF2, but now that it's been 6 months, I'm again curious if there is any upgrade to be had with a dedicated Pi streamer using Coax to the BF2...


That is certainly one of the things I am going to be testing out as I have just spent time putting together two new pi's just for this purpose. Will also be finding out about LPS vs. SMPS advantages or disadvantages. hope to be reporting in on those things soon.


----------



## Delta9K

I've been considering a DDC for the Bf2 chain but, that Unison USB is really nice and makes it tough to want to spend another $500.00 just to "see" if its better.


----------



## kumar402

Delta9K said:


> I've been considering a DDC for the Bf2 chain but, that Unison USB is really nice and makes it tough to want to spend another $500.00 just to "see" if its better.


Apart from sonic improvement, DDC is to cut the clutter and keep your laptop or desktop free of USB cable that connects it to DAC.


----------



## 2ndWedge

Delta9K said:


> I've been considering a DDC for the Bf2 chain but, that Unison USB is really nice and makes it tough to want to spend another $500.00 just to "see" if its better.


That would be the Denafrips IRIS reviewed over at Audiophilia?  Looks a lot more substantial than my Schiit Eitr.


----------



## Delta9K

2ndWedge said:


> That would be the Denafrips IRIS reviewed over at Audiophilia?  Looks a lot more substantial than my Schiit Eitr.


I was actually thinking the Matrix Audio Xspidif 2 <https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/314.html>
​


----------



## tafens

bboris77 said:


> Don't even get me started with the tube-rolling. I have been there and done that multiple times. I am not willing to go back there since I realized that there is too much that depends on any specific tube, so you never know if you are actually getting the sound that the designer intended. If I do go down that road ever again it would be just for schiits and giggles - something totally over the top like the upcoming Schiit 10-tube amp. In addition to this, I absolutely love my Asgard 3 and I honestly have no reason to even consider changing it.



I also have Asgard3 and agree it sounds great.
I also have a Lyr3 which I like even more, both together with the BF2 

I have rolled a few tubes in the Lyr and found one that I like. I don’t care if I get the sound the designer intended or not, as long as I get a sound that I like


----------



## RickB

I have a complaint. The headphone jack on my Bifrost 2 doesn't work.


----------



## ThanatosVI

RickB said:


> I have a complaint. The headphone jack on my Bifrost 2 doesn't work.


Headphone Jack?! 
Whatever hole you Think is a headphone Jack, it's not...


----------



## RickB

ThanatosVI said:


> Headphone Jack?!
> Whatever hole you Think is a headphone Jack, it's not...



Lol, I was making a joke about the remote control port.


----------



## ThanatosVI

RickB said:


> Lol, I was making a joke about the remote control port.


Thought so much


----------



## joseG86

lmao


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Welcome to the family!          And, yes I must dust...


----------



## jamesofla80

Anxiously waiting on my Bifrost 2 to arrive and compare against my existing Bifrost MB. Was wondering does anyone use any USB filters? I currently have a ifi iPurifier3 and iSilencer on my Pi4 (VitOS) --> Bifrost MB. Wondering if it will give any advantage, now that there is Unison on the Bifrost 2. I will test when it arrives but wanted to see if anyone has done comparisons.


----------



## kumar402

jamesofla80 said:


> Anxiously waiting on my Bifrost 2 to arrive and compare against my existing Bifrost MB. Was wondering does anyone use any USB filters? I currently have a ifi iPurifier3 and iSilencer on my Pi4 (VitOS) --> Bifrost MB. Wondering if it will give any advantage, now that there is Unison on the Bifrost 2. I will test when it arrives but wanted to see if anyone has done comparisons.


Unison is designed for the use in DAC and is designed to filter out the noise and is well isolated. I don't think you need to fret over bringing more in the chain if you have decent USB source. But since you are using Pi4, which may have noisy USB, using them won't hurt.


----------



## jamesofla80

kumar402 said:


> Unison is designed for the use in DAC and is designed to filter out the noise and is well isolated. I don't think you need to fret over bringing more in the chain if you have decent USB source. But since you are using Pi4, which may have noisy USB, using them won't hurt.


What would you recommend to use instead of Pi4 with VitOS that isn't a super pricey streamer? I have an older Macbook and Windows laptops, do you think they would be less noisy than a Pi? I run Roon on a NAS and have the PI4 as my Roon bridge.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

jamesofla80 said:


> What would you recommend to use instead of Pi4 with VitOS that isn't a super pricey streamer? I have an older Macbook and Windows laptops, do you think they would be less noisy than a Pi? I run Roon on a NAS and have the PI4 as my Roon bridge.


I am using 2 Pi4's one with an Allo Digione configuration, the other straight USB to the BF2 and have no nose issues. I thought they improved the noise issue with the 4 having separated the USB Fromm the other parts.

Always try something before buying equipment to fix a problem that might not be present. Lol


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

By the way I'm also running Roon.


----------



## Mightygrey

jamesofla80 said:


> What would you recommend to use instead of Pi4 with VitOS that isn't a super pricey streamer? I have an older Macbook and Windows laptops, do you think they would be less noisy than a Pi? I run Roon on a NAS and have the PI4 as my Roon bridge.


I plug a Chromecast Audio into the optical input on my Bifrost 2. It works perfectly as a Roon endpoint and for streaming straight from the Tidal app.


----------



## theveterans

bboris77 said:


> I am back in the owner club as well! Ordered one yesterday, hoping to get it soon. My launch unit had some minor cosmetic/noise issues so I ended up returning for a refund. Have regretted not simply getting a replacement ever since. I remember the differences between it and a delta-sigma DAC not being earth-shattering BUT significant enough to be audible. The Bifrost 2 had better drum (cymbal, hi-hat) transients and slightly less 2-dimensional soundstage.
> 
> I also have to admit that I went through a temporary phase where I got swayed by the measurement fad and wanted to have the best measuring DAC possible. I will still be keeping my Atom DAC for when I am in the mood for a great sounding D/S AKM velvet sound DAC.
> 
> Despite the recent measurement-group propaganda that all DACs sound exactly the same, there are subtle differences in sound between AKM, ESS, Cirrus Logic and Schiit Multibit chips. The differences _are _measurable as well if you know what to measure, mainly the DAC reconstruction filter response.



Just wanted to add that the analog stage and digital signal filtering (before it goes to DSP for oversampling) matters a lot. You can have the same AKM DAC chip set to the same reconstruction filter (linear phase fast roll-off as an example) but the analog stage, USB decrapifying stage and other methods that are much improved on the latter, there would be sonic differences in terms of how "etched" the timbre as well as soundstage, micro-detail and micro-dynamics


----------



## dwakefield

kumar402 said:


> Unison is designed for the use in DAC and is designed to filter out the noise and is well isolated. I don't think you need to fret over bringing more in the chain if you have decent USB source. But since you are using Pi4, which may have noisy USB, using them won't hurt.


My Pi4 -> USB Supra cable -> unison Yggy is great.  Roon Rock on Nuc fed to my PC -> Supra cable -> Bifrost2 fabulous.  Apparently Pi4 better than previous pi3 USB. But I haven't tried a filter. Would love to know if others have done that comparison. When I sent Yggy back for unison upgrade it was weeks gone, but the difference was so noticeable even before Yggy warmed up, I was stunned. The cable upgrade to Supra was not as dramatic, but quite detectable. I would say about 30% better for unison and 5% better for cable upgrade. Cable is not crazy expensive either--about $50.
As usual YMMV.


----------



## kumar402

dwakefield said:


> My Pi4 -> USB Supra cable -> unison Yggy is great.  Roon Rock on Nuc fed to my PC -> Supra cable -> Bifrost2 fabulous.  Apparently Pi4 better than previous pi3 USB. But I haven't tried a filter. Would love to know if others have done that comparison. When I sent Yggy back for unison upgrade it was weeks gone, but the difference was so noticeable even before Yggy warmed up, I was stunned. The cable upgrade to Supra was not as dramatic, but quite detectable. I would say about 30% better for unison and 5% better for cable upgrade. Cable is not crazy expensive either--about $50.
> As usual YMMV


I have Pi3 with Digione and Pi2AES HAT and not Pi4 but since Pi4 has better implemented USB so I may be wrong in my initial assesment.


----------



## EagleWings

Supra USB cable gets a thumbs up from me. Slightly large stage, smoother highs but slightly more details, mode body mids and yet better separation. Don't recall what it did to the bass though. I preferred the Supra over the AQ Cinnamon. Well made, flexible/pliable, sounds good and doesn't cost a lot. All these make it an easy recommendation. But people looking for leaner and hyper detailed sound might want to look elsewhere.


----------



## tafens

EagleWings said:


> Supra USB cable gets a thumbs up from me. Slightly large stage, smoother highs but slightly more details, mode body mids and yet better separation. Don't recall what it did to the bass though. I preferred the Supra over the AQ Cinnamon. Well made, flexible/pliable, sounds good and doesn't cost a lot. All these make it an easy recommendation. But people looking for leaner and hyper detailed sound might want to look elsewhere.


I have good experience with the AQ Pearl which was a good improvement vs generic, and AQ Carbon which improves even more over the Pearl. However the largest step up was from generic to the Pearl.


----------



## jamesofla80

How about Schiits own PYST USB cable, anyone compare it to some of the higher end cables?


----------



## tafens

jamesofla80 said:


> How about Schiits own PYST USB cable, anyone compare it to some of the higher end cables?


Yes, in my ears (YMMV of course) the AQ Pearl bests it. I think they are similarly priced, so in my opinion, the AQ Pearl is well worth a try without breaking the bank.

Funnily enough, I wasn’t on any quest to better the sound or anything when I got the Pearl, I already had the PYST at that point but it was too stiff and I just wanted to get something more bendable and “higher end” than generic. As a bonus, it sounded better to me as well. That is, for me, in my chain. Other people’s experiences may differ from mine of course


----------



## Mightygrey

My Epson ET-4750 USB cable really brings out the mids, it probably makes them about 5% middier.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Mightygrey said:


> My Epson ET-4750 USB cable really brings out the mids, it probably makes them about 5% middier.


I saw that coming from somewhere!!🤣🤣🤣


----------



## RickB

Mightygrey said:


> My Epson ET-4750 USB cable really brings out the mids, it probably makes them about 5% middier.


And it makes black print 5% blacker from your laser printer.


----------



## cgb3

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Always try something before buying equipment to fix a problem that might not be present.


Sage advice.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 25, 2021)

But that contradicts the audiophile rule...

'Fix everything even if you can't hear it just in case someone can measure it.'


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Ripper2860 said:


> But that contradicts the audiophile rule...
> 
> Fix everything even if you can't hear it just in case someone can measure it.


I'm sorry, am moment of weakness and #CFS!

Please forgive me!  😂😂


----------



## bigjako (Apr 24, 2021)

I really like the Shunyata Venom USB, which can be found for $99 on Amazon.  It was definitely a step up from my Epson.  Really, for real.


----------



## Mightygrey

RickB said:


> And it makes black print 5% blacker from your laser printer.


It really does help create a sense of an inky black background.


----------



## Mightygrey

Mightygrey said:


> It really does help create a sense of an inky black background.


It also helps you visualise the details...


----------



## RickB

Quick question, what are others' experience with how long the BF2 takes to warm up again into an optimum state after being turned off for a short period of time. Say, like 10 minutes?


----------



## erroneous

It's already there at that point. Just let it ride.


----------



## Ripper2860

RickB said:


> Quick question, what are others' experience with how long the BF2 takes to warm up again into an optimum state after being turned off for a short period of time. Say, like 10 minutes?


I think 10-20 minutes is more than enough.  I leave mine on 24x7 due to the power switch being inconvenient to reach, however.


----------



## RickB

I swapped the Schiit Pyst USB cable (made by Straight Wire) for an Audioquest Pearl USB.

Now this is weird. It makes the sound brighter and noticeably more detailed. It has that crystalline sound I associate with Sony CD players. The more detailed aspect is great, the brightness, less so. However, the brightness is not sharp or unpleasant at all. I always expect that with brightness, so the fact that it's missing confuses my brain. Brightness without being sharp or harsh, what?

The Bifrost is a warm DAC. It doesn't sound like that nearly as much with the Audioquest cable. I'm not sure I like that yet.


----------



## RickB (Apr 30, 2021)

RickB said:


> I swapped the Schiit Pyst USB cable (made by Straight Wire) for an Audioquest Pearl USB.
> 
> Now this is weird. It makes the sound brighter and noticeably more detailed. It has that crystalline sound I associate with Sony CD players. The more detailed aspect is great, the brightness, less so. However, the brightness is not sharp or unpleasant at all. I always expect that with brightness, so the fact that it's missing confuses my brain. Brightness without being sharp or harsh, what?
> 
> The Bifrost is a warm DAC. It doesn't sound like that nearly as much with the Audioquest cable. I'm not sure I like that yet.



I've decided to return the Audioquest cable and stick with the Pyst. The Audioquest just sounds too unnatural to me.

Never mind. The cable seems to have settled down or I got used to it.


----------



## Marutks

RickB said:


> I've decided to return the Audioquest cable and stick with the Pyst. The Audioquest just sounds too unnatural to me.
> 
> Never mind. The cable seems to have settled down or I got used to it.



Maybe it was just a placebo effect and it weared off after a while?
I have Audioquest Forest USB cable but it sounds no different than stock USB cable.
I tried Topping D90 and RME ADI 2 DAC.  USB cable didn't change anything.


----------



## RickB

Marutks said:


> Maybe it was just a placebo effect and it weared off after a while?
> I have Audioquest Forest USB cable but it sounds no different than stock USB cable.
> I tried Topping D90 and RME ADI 2 DAC.  USB cable didn't change anything.



I wasn't going to post about it anymore (boring topic), but I eventually decided that I didn't like the AudioQuest cable and returned it today. It definitely sounds brighter to me than the PYST USB cable. With some of my more poorly recorded music, it took on a brittle quality that I hated.

Blows my mind that a digital cable can sound different.


----------



## Tsunzo (Apr 30, 2021)

My Bifrost 2 burnt up on me today after owning it for a month and half. There's no audio signal coming out of the balanced and single ended output. Now everytime I turn it on it gets extremely hot on the left side and smells like burnt. Thankfully schiit is going to send me a replacement as soon as I send mine back to them. Has this happen to anyone else?


----------



## davidfrance

Tsunzo said:


> My Bifrost 2 burnt up on me today after owning it for a month and half. There's no audio signal coming out of the balanced and single ended output. Now everytime I turn it on it gets extremely hot on the left side and smells like burnt. Thankfully schiit is going to send me a replacement as soon as I send mine back to them. Has this happen to anyone else?


I vaguely recall reading another story like this. Both parts, the bad part that it happened, and the good part that Schiit took care of the situation.


----------



## davidfrance

davidfrance said:


> I vaguely recall reading another story like this. Both parts, the bad part that it happened, and the good part that Schiit took care of the situation.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/page-123

Yeah, page 123, April 1st, 2021, Coran ... same story, pretty much.


----------



## tafens

RickB said:


> I wasn't going to post about it anymore (boring topic), but I eventually decided that I didn't like the AudioQuest cable and returned it today. It definitely sounds brighter to me than the PYST USB cable. With some of my more poorly recorded music, it took on a brittle quality that I hated.





RickB said:


> Blows my mind that a digital cable can sound different.


Me too. I mean, I wasn’t totally against the idea either. After all, although it is a digital cable the signal through it still relies on voltage levels. The voltages in turn are dependent on physics, and physics ain’t  digital.. 

It is also important to remember that audio over USB is a real-time protocol with no room for error detection, error correction, or resending of bad packets. The DAC is completely subject to what pops out the other end of the cable, whatever it is, and has to deal with it, as is. A resend would most probably result in an immediate and likely apparent stutter or glitch in the sound, anyway.

That is unlike communication with other USB devices like printers and hard disks, which can detect bad data transmission and have it resent until it comes through correctly.

I think this might be the most common reason why people dismiss the thought of digital cables possibly making a difference, because, well, they’re all just digital anyway, and if it works well with the printer it should work just as well with the DAC. And hey, that is what I thought too. Until..

Ok, rewinding a bit in time. I was using a generic printer cable for a long time (albeit a “HQ” one, shielded and gold plated with ferrite cores on the ends), perfectly happy with it. When it broke I got a PYST. It worked well, didn’t think much of it and didn’t really listen for any differences in sound. Then I moved my equipment and the PYST was a bit short and too stiff to work well so I looked for a longer more easy to route cable still of good quality. So I tried an entry level Audio Quest one (the Pearl). This time I thought I’d listen carefully if I could hear any difference between them, and it turned out that I could, and to me the Pearl sounded better (not night and day of course, far from it, but a little more “clear” and “open”).

And, really, why not? If everything else can make a difference, the amp, the tube, the DAC, the source.. why not the cables that connect them all?


----------



## rkw

tafens said:


> It is also important to remember that audio over USB is a real-time protocol with no room for error detection, error correction, or resending of bad packets.


USB audio does have CRC in the data packet for error detection. It's up to the DAC how to handle a detected USB data error (typically would mute/dropout). The reality is that the maximum allowed error rate in the USB specification is extremely low, and transmission errors are really not a factor for audio.


----------



## RickB (May 1, 2021)

tafens said:


> Me too. I mean, I wasn’t totally against the idea either. After all, although it is a digital cable the signal through it still relies on voltage levels. The voltages in turn are dependent on physics, and physics ain’t  digital..
> 
> It is also important to remember that audio over USB is a real-time protocol with no room for error detection, error correction, or resending of bad packets. The DAC is completely subject to what pops out the other end of the cable, whatever it is, and has to deal with it, as is. A resend would most probably result in an immediate and likely apparent stutter or glitch in the sound, anyway.
> 
> ...



I do miss the level of detail that the AQ Pearl seemed to bring out of the Bifrost 2. I think the detail was already there, but the presentation with the AQ cable made it very easy to hear.

Edit: As a matter of fact, if anyone knows of a USB cable that presents as much detail as the AQ cable, but isn't as bright and brittle sounding, please share.


----------



## dwakefield

This is an interesting analysis of 3 different USB cables. Using audacity he inverts the music to compare and the end result is the difference which is quite audible.

I'd love wiser folk than me to take a listen/watch and tell me what he's missing. It is because if this that I bought Supra USB cable and felt like I heard a 5% improvement.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

dwakefield said:


> This is an interesting analysis of 3 different USB cables. Using audacity he inverts the music to compare and the end result is the difference which is quite audible.
> 
> I'd love wiser folk than me to take a listen/watch and tell me what he's missing. It is because if this that I bought Supra USB cable and felt like I heard a 5% improvement.



I watched that video as well, I'm a subscriber to "Passion For Sound" as I find him to be a very honest reviewer, As a side, he is a huge fan of the BF2, and thru a brief conversation with him is part of the reason I now own my BF2. I cannot comment on the scientific part of three review, other than I would say it would be a reliable study to evaluate, and I'm sure his thinking is sound.

Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

dwakefield said:


> This is an interesting analysis of 3 different USB cables. Using audacity he inverts the music to compare and the end result is the difference which is quite audible.
> 
> I'd love wiser folk than me to take a listen/watch and tell me what he's missing. It is because if this that I bought Supra USB cable and felt like I heard a 5% improvement.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm also subscribed. I just bought a AQ carbon 😂 

I'm really going down the cable rabbit hole. I also just bought a Norne Solvine cable for my Clear Pro. Waiting for both. 

I've been a cable skeptic forever. This is my first endeavor into it. Will report back after the madness lol.


----------



## tafens

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm also subscribed. I just bought a AQ carbon 😂
> 
> I'm really going down the cable rabbit hole. I also just bought a Norne Solvine cable for my Clear Pro. Waiting for both.
> 
> I've been a cable skeptic forever. This is my first endeavor into it. Will report back after the madness lol.



He did a separate writeup of USB cables a few years ago, including a lot of AudioQuest cables:

http://passionforsound.lachlanfennen.com/massive-usb-comparison-test/

I’m also subscribed to him, I think I found out about the channel when someone posted about his interview series with Jason.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tafens said:


> He did a separate writeup of USB cables a few years ago, including a lot of AudioQuest cables:
> 
> http://passionforsound.lachlanfennen.com/massive-usb-comparison-test/
> 
> I’m also subscribed to him, I think I found out about the channel when someone posted about his interview series with Jason.


I found that dude a few months ago when he did the dac shootout. Part of the reason I picked up a BF2. A week later I agreed with his findings and sold the Ares.


----------



## RickB

Something I've noticed about the BF2 is that it makes it incredibly easy to tell if an album was originally recorded to analog. The air and the 3-D sound around vocals is unmistakeable. Bifrost really, really likes analog recordings.


----------



## cgb3 (May 2, 2021)

I use this USB cable with my Bifrost 2, sounds great (note, my Gigabyte motherboard offers an audio only output, which I use for my USB output. Your mileage may vary). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCPHQ6D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

One reason Bifrost 2 is more expensive than some DAC's... Galvanic isolation. One should be able to plug a USB cable from Bifrost 2, to source (PC, Mac, or other), and have only music transmitted (to the final Bifrost 2 output).


----------



## dwakefield

mvn1 said:


> I have a MB card in my Lyr3. I'd love to know peoples thoughts who have both the MB Lyr3 and Bifrost 2 - if there is a big difference?


I have both and I find the Bifrost2 is significantly better. The convenience of the all in one box at the time I thought would be useful. But turns out I haven't used it since the first week or so. But I do have Yggy, GungnirMB, and Bifrost2 so don't need it. So I haven't done a comparison in months.


----------



## Tralfaz

Some recent posts got me wondering whether there was any value in trying a different USB cable from my iMac to my BF2 as I'd been using a generic cable and it seemed to work fine.  Just for grins I tried an Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable because I had set an arbitrary budget of $100 and I've had good luck with AQ products in the past (plus I could return it if I didn't like it).

I plugged it in a couple of nights ago and let things settle in before doing any critical listening but I will say I heard an immediate difference.  Having now listened to my system for a couple of days I can say that the difference I hear is an improvement in air, clarity, image definition, and (possibly) extended frequency response.  None of these on their own are that significant but cumulatively I like and appreciate what the new cable brings to my system and my musical enjoyment.  It's somewhat akin to replacing the tube in my Lyr 3 in terms of the scale of the improvement.

I'm surprised by this as I've generally assumed that bits are bits and that a data cable shouldn't matter, and for some people this will still be the case.  All I can say is that while I don't understand why, I do hear a different and it's a difference that's an improvement to me.

And I still think the Bifrost 2 is an amazing DAC.


----------



## markishwong

I'm using the ifi mercury usb 3.0 cable.
wonder anyone used/compared the ifi mercury usb 3.0 cable to curious evolved usb for sound?


----------



## Delta9K (May 6, 2021)

I too have recently had my eyes (ears) opened to the differences cables can make both with interconnects between gear, and headphones cables. Like @Tralfaz mentioned, the individual differences are often subtle but when combined there is a definite detectable improvement. Even if that improvement is only perception or "brain" burn in.  It sucks in a way. I was happy thinking cables didn't matter and using that budget to further enhance signal chain components or add to headphone collections etc.  My wallet hates me...

RE: Bifrost 2 being an amazing DAC - I am with you there. For its price point it is IMO the best. It's fun, enjoyable and versatile.


----------



## EagleWings

markishwong said:


> I'm using the ifi mercury usb 3.0 cable.
> wonder anyone used/compared the ifi mercury usb 3.0 cable to curious evolved usb for sound?



Never tried the iFi cable. The curious cable brought about improvements in many aspects (stage, resolution, detail, airiness, imaging, smoothness) over a generic cable, and those improvement were easier to pick out than the improvements on AQ Cinnamon or even the Supra. But the midrange sounded withdrawn and lacking body. So it was a no go for me.


----------



## Crowbar44

So my Bifrost 2 is on extreme 4-6 week backorder at Schiit (the global chip shortage seems to have affected their MB offerings now...which is funny as their AKM DACs are still shipping even though the fab burned down!)

Does anyone have a rec for a DAC that sounds similar to the Bifrost 2 with balanced outs?

I was thinking Chord Qutest...but it's not balanced...anything else out there?


----------



## kumar402

Crowbar44 said:


> So my Bifrost 2 is on extreme 4-6 week backorder at Schiit (the global chip shortage seems to have affected their MB offerings now...which is funny as their AKM DACs are still shipping even though the fab burned down!)
> 
> Does anyone have a rec for a DAC that sounds similar to the Bifrost 2 with balanced outs?
> 
> I was thinking Chord Qutest...but it's not balanced...anything else out there?


And Qutest doesn’t sound anything like BF2
May be check out old gen Gungnir in used market or Ares2. Haven’t heard Ares personally but may be somewhere close to BF2


----------



## RickB

Sorry if this has already been posted, but this video resolved all doubt in my mind that USB cables can sound different.


----------



## Crowbar44

kumar402 said:


> And Qutest doesn’t sound anything like BF2
> May be check out old gen Gungnir in used market or Ares2. Haven’t heard Ares personally but may be somewhere close to BF2


I'm assuming Qutest has that dry DS sound?  If you've heard it I'd love some specifics on how it differs from BF2...


----------



## Jon L

RickB said:


> this video resolved all doubt in my mind that USB cables can sound different.


This sentence can be ambiguous.  Do you believe USB cables CAN sound different or CANNOT sound different?


----------



## RickB

Jon L said:


> This sentence can be ambiguous.  Do you believe USB cables CAN sound different or CANNOT sound different?



I meant, that video convinced me that USB cables CAN sound different.


----------



## Tralfaz

Hooray for grammar!


----------



## Ripper2860

RickB said:


> I meant, that video convinced me that USB cables CAN sound different.



And this video convinced me that the Earth IS Flat!


----------



## RickB

Ripper2860 said:


> And this video convinced me that the Earth IS Flat!




The earth cannot be flat, because cats would've pushed everything off it by now.


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, hell!!  That makes perfect sense.  Gotta say that I'm feeling a bit foolish for ever thinking it was flat.


----------



## Smoothstereo

I personally believe digital, analog, speaker, and power cables do sound different. Whether that difference is an improvement depends on the system synergy and one's preference and hearing. 

I also believe not all high priced cables are good nor all lower priced cables are bad. It's the crazy overpriced 4 or 5 digit cables that make the nonbelievers against the idea of cables matter. 

I had positive results using AQ USB Carbon cable, not night and day difference, but noticeable enough for me to keep it. Otherwise, it would have been returned. Trust your ears, if you like what you hear and if the price is not outrageous, no shame in believing in cables matter is what I say to folks. YMMV.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Smoothstereo said:


> I personally believe digital, analog, speaker, and power cables do sound different. Whether that difference is an improvement depends on the system synergy and one's preference and hearing.
> 
> I also believe not all high priced cables are good nor all lower priced cables are bad. It's the crazy overpriced 4 or 5 digit cables that make the nonbelievers against the idea of cables matter.
> 
> I had positive results using AQ USB Carbon cable, not night and day difference, but noticeable enough for me to keep it. Otherwise, it would have been returned. Trust your ears, if you like what you hear and if the price is not outrageous, no shame in believing in cables matter is what I say to folks. YMMV.


I have a carbon on the way. Do you still use yours or have you moved on? If so what are you using now. 

Cheers!


----------



## Smoothstereo

Guidostrunk said:


> I have a carbon on the way. Do you still use yours or have you moved on? If so what are you using now.
> 
> Cheers!


I still use my AQ Carbon usb cable. Been very satisfied with it for the past 3 years and only minor gripe is its a little stiff vs the freebie stock usb cables. But not a deal breaker for me. Hope it works out for you.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Crowbar44 said:


> So my Bifrost 2 is on extreme 4-6 week backorder at Schiit (the global chip shortage seems to have affected their MB offerings now...which is funny as their AKM DACs are still shipping even though the fab burned down!)
> 
> Does anyone have a rec for a DAC that sounds similar to the Bifrost 2 with balanced outs?
> 
> I was thinking Chord Qutest...but it's not balanced...anything else out there?



What do you mean the 'extreme' 4-6 week back order? I ordered mine a few weeks ago and now wondering if it will be longer of a wait.


----------



## Arcayne

RickB said:


> Sorry if this has already been posted, but this video resolved all doubt in my mind that USB cables can sound different.



There are some issues with this test, like the absence of control groups to verify if randomized noise shaping/dither isn't responsible for differences between each recording.


----------



## Crowbar44

ColdsnapBry said:


> What do you mean the 'extreme' 4-6 week back order? I ordered mine a few weeks ago and now wondering if it will be longer of a wait.


I've reached out to Schiit and they're not giving any estimates on ship dates now...afraid it's going to be a while...seems like all MB products are on serious backorder due to the global chip shortage


----------



## blackdragon87

Shoot, my bifrost 2 died yesterday. Have to send it in to schiit 😟


----------



## Tsunzo

blackdragon87 said:


> Shoot, my bifrost 2 died yesterday. Have to send it in to schiit 😟


That happened to me just last week too 😔


----------



## blackdragon87

Tsunzo said:


> That happened to me just last week too 😔



Yeah, its my only dac atm too


----------



## Crowbar44 (May 8, 2021)

blackdragon87 said:


> Yeah, its my only dac atm too


Anyone have any intelligence as to when Bifrosts will start shipping again?  Website says 4-6 weeks, but inquiries to Schiit are being answered very cryptically...sounds like they're waiting for components, like most of the world, and just can't comment....seems like a bad sign.  What's the longest backorder Schiit has had?


----------



## erroneous

Schiit is probably tired of catching hell for continually pushing back expected shipping dates, so they finally just started saying "LOL man I dunno."


----------



## Crowbar44

erroneous said:


> Schiit is probably tired of catching hell for continually pushing back expected shipping dates, so they finally just started saying "LOL man I dunno."


Probably...I'm sympathetic though - this is an unprecedented event.  Car companies are losing billions because they can't get chips...

Funny though...the Schiit AKM DACs are shipping in 2-3 days - and the AKM fab burned down!


----------



## erroneous

Crowbar44 said:


> Probably...I'm sympathetic though - this is an unprecedented event.  Car companies are losing billions because they can't get chips...
> 
> Funny though...the Schiit AKM DACs are shipping in 2-3 days - and the AKM fab burned down!


I'm totally sympathetic too. It's smart of them to not give dates now. At least people aren't being drug along.


----------



## tafens

Crowbar44 said:


> Funny though...the Schiit AKM DACs are shipping in 2-3 days - and the AKM fab burned down!



They have no shortage of AKM parts because they had happened to (over)buy so much of them that even after the fire they would have enough to the end of the year (depending on sales), according to a post from Jason over in the Schiit Happened thread.


----------



## blackdragon87

Tsunzo said:


> That happened to me just last week too 😔



Did you send it in for repair. I wonder how long it takes them to fix the item and send it back


----------



## Tsunzo

blackdragon87 said:


> Did you send it in for repair. I wonder how long it takes them to fix the item and send it back


I sent mine back last Saturday and they have already shipped out a replacement for me, according to tracking it should arrive Monday. I guess I got lucky I was expecting at least a 3 weeks wait and bought another dac since it was my only dac I had too. I hope they will ship out your replacement soon!


----------



## blackdragon87

Tsunzo said:


> I sent mine back last Saturday and they have already shipped out a replacement for me, according to tracking it should arrive Monday. I guess I got lucky I was expecting at least a 3 weeks wait and bought another dac since it was my only dac I had too. I hope they will ship out your replacement soon!



Thx, planning to ship it out tmr


----------



## Crowbar44 (May 8, 2021)

Tsunzo said:


> I sent mine back last Saturday and they have already shipped out a replacement for me, according to tracking it should arrive Monday. I guess I got lucky I was expecting at least a 3 weeks wait and bought another dac since it was my only dac I had too. I hope they will ship out your replacement soon!


Well this is good news (I guess).  It means that they're shipping units...just slowly.  Makes sense, and shows great customer service that they would prioritize an existing customer with a bad unit over a new order.  A crappier company would screw the guy with the bad unit as they already have his money.  Typical classy Schiit behavior - though I'd really like to get mine soon.


----------



## Crowbar44

Tsunzo said:


> That happened to me just last week too 😔


I'm curious - how long did both of you own your Bifrost's before they died?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man... these Bifrost disasters have me nervous. I love this dac but I'm getting antsy.


----------



## Rattle

I've had mine for 9 months. Been flawless, hopefully stays that way.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 8, 2021)

I have 2 since 2019 and both have been flawless.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok. I can breathe a little bit 😂


----------



## Tsunzo

Crowbar44 said:


> I'm curious - how long did both of you own your Bifrost's before they died?


I've had it for about a month and half. It was a great dac when everything worked.


----------



## Tsunzo

It might have been just a bad batch but their customer service is definitely superb.


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 8, 2021)

Maybe a bad lot of components.  Component supply and mfg has been stretched so quality of the components may have been impacted -- much to Schiit's dismay, I bet.

Edit: Jinx!  😄


----------



## theveterans

Ripper2860 said:


> I have 2 since 2019 and both have been flawless.



Same. Launch day Bifrost 2 back in early August 2019 for me and ZERO issues whatsoever. One thing is that I still have the OG firmware and never updated to the current version since to me if it ain't broke, don't fix it


----------



## Rattle

theveterans said:


> Same. Launch day Bifrost 2 back in early August 2019 for me and ZERO issues whatsoever. One thing is that I still have the OG firmware and never updated to the current version since to me if it ain't broke, don't fix it


Any chance you have any info on when that new firmware came out ? I remember hearing about it. Bought mine in August 2020


----------



## joseG86

Bought mine used in Jan 2020, been using it since March 13th 2021 24/7, 0 issues so far, flawless behavior xlr and rca.


----------



## theveterans

Rattle said:


> Any chance you have any info on when that new firmware came out ? I remember hearing about it. Bought mine in August 2020


https://www.schiit.com/firmware
Here you go:


> *Bifrost 2 Current Firmware:* Bifrost 2 C0088, D0105
> *Release Date: *9/26/2019


----------



## Rattle (May 8, 2021)

theveterans said:


> https://www.schiit.com/firmware
> Here you go:


Thanks ! Appreciate you linking the info. I guess I could have looked myself ! I assumed it was like a silent rev thing like modi multibit. Forgot they made it easy with bifrost 2


----------



## Neweymatt

Guidostrunk said:


> Man... these Bifrost disasters have me nervous. I love this dac but I'm getting antsy.


Got mine B Stock October last year. 
I'm trying to convince myself that means Schiit would have put it through a second QA cycle, and I’ll have no issues, right? Right?


----------



## tafens

Guidostrunk said:


> Man... these Bifrost disasters have me nervous. I love this dac but I'm getting antsy.



I don’t think there’s any need to worry. They’re shifting a lot of units and the majority of course works flawlessly.

That said, I felt in a similar way shortly after I got mine, too.. I bought it when it first came out and that feeling came when they reported that they found that they had gotten a bad batch of capacitors. And that those caps were used in the first run of the Bifrost2 before they found out about it. The cap, if it failed, would short out the power supply rendering the unit dead. So I was a bit worried about that for a while, but, long story short, my unit still runs great, and if for some reason it would fail in the future there’s still the five year warranty.

I don’t know how many units that failed due to this, but I don’t remember reading about very many here or other places so it appears that there were fairly few. Given that, I’d definitely expect the failure rate of current units to be minimal.


----------



## blackdragon87

Crowbar44 said:


> I'm curious - how long did both of you own your Bifrost's before they died?



Oct 2020


----------



## shafat777

To all the peeps that had BIfrost 2 die on them, did you leave yours on 24/7. How often did you turn yours off?


----------



## blackdragon87

Neweymatt said:


> Got mine B Stock October last year.
> I'm trying to convince myself that means Schiit would have put it through a second QA cycle, and I’ll have no issues, right? Right?



my was bstock from oct 2020 and died on me😔


----------



## blackdragon87

shafat777 said:


> To all the peeps that had BIfrost 2 die on them, did you leave yours on 24/7. How often did you turn yours off?



It was on 24/7 with my Jot. Never turned off


----------



## SnowRang3r

I’ve had zero issues with my BF2. Have had it since October, I leave mine on most of the time unless I’m gone for 3-4 days. 

A shame some people are having issues, hopefully Schiit resolves them quickly!


----------



## RickB

shafat777 said:


> To all the peeps that had BIfrost 2 die on them, did you leave yours on 24/7. How often did you turn yours off?



Seriously, I wonder if the heat from having an Asgard 3 stacked on top of it will eventually prove too much (the Asgard radiates heat from the bottom).


----------



## shafat777

RickB said:


> Seriously, I wonder if the heat from having an Asgard 3 stacked on top of it will eventually prove too much (the Asgard radiates heat from the bottom).


Absolutely. I wonder if thats the culprit here. NO matter what schiit says, its never wise to leave a electrical component capable of generating so much on all the time without giving any kind of break. IMO, it should be common sense. I tunr mine off each night when i m done using it. Knock on wood, none of my audio equipments have ever given me any kind of heat issues or have failed.


----------



## Crowbar44

Ripper2860 said:


> Maybe a bad lot of components.  Component supply and mfg has been stretched so quality of the components may have been impacted -- much to Schiit's dismay, I bet.
> 
> Edit: Jinx!  😄


My concerns exactly...great company, but the world has gotten a little less reliable


----------



## Rattle

shafat777 said:


> To all the peeps that had BIfrost 2 die on them, did you leave yours on 24/7. How often did you turn yours off?


I do 12 hour cycles but leave it on all weekend if I am home. Mine has not died yet.


----------



## Tsunzo

I left mine on 24/7 and I also stacked the Jot2 below it.


----------



## blackdragon87

Tsunzo said:


> I left mine on 24/7 and I also stacked the Jot2 below it.



same as me . will probaly turn off the jot on top of it frkm.now on once i get it back


----------



## davidfrance

I look at these Bifrost 2 problems and they make me hesitant too, but I wouldn't be if I was living in the U.S. Most units are probably quite fine. 

For Europe though, the day that "Schiit Europe" will have some in stock, I don't think that will be anytime soon. It's not just shipping charges back to the U.S. for repair, it's the tax people that may not understand that your repaired unit is something you already paid tax on once, etc. 

Outside of the U.S., a repair is a much bigger hassle. If you buy it from "Schiit Europe", they either fix it or get you a unit that does work, but if you buy it direct from Schiit in the U.S. it's yourself that deals with all the hassles. 

I am still thinking I will get a Valhalla 2 from Schiit U.S., but that is , essentially, a 75 year old design ( ? ), and no "op-amps" ( ? ) ... chips that can get too hot and burn out, or have manufacturing defects, etc.

For a Bifrost 2, I still might get one, but it worries me a lot more.


----------



## arar

davidfrance said:


> For a Bifrost 2, I still might get one, but it worries me a lot more.


Yeah, I'm hoping to get a Jot 2 + Bifrost 2 stack some day, but as an another European, the reports are certainly a bit worrying. Like yeah, obviously _most _of them are just fine, but going purely by these threads, it certainly seems like those two are more prone to failures than most other amps/DACs.

I'm super happy with my current setup, though, so I'll just wait patiently and see if Schiit can iron out the kinks.


----------



## Neweymatt

blackdragon87 said:


> my was bstock from oct 2020 and died on me😔


Yikes.


blackdragon87 said:


> It was on 24/7 with my Jot. Never turned off


Double yikes, maybe I'll turn my Schiit off overnight when not in use.  I really don’t think it takes any more than 5 minutes for the bifrost to 'wam up' anyways…


----------



## kumar402

Schiit customer care is fantastic and hence not a big issue for US based customer but for outside US it can be pretty daunting and expensive to send the DAC all over to US for repair . Finger crossed for my BF2


----------



## tafens

SnowRang3r said:


> I’ve had zero issues with my BF2. Have had it since October, I leave mine on most of the time unless I’m gone for 3-4 days.
> 
> A shame some people are having issues, hopefully Schiit resolves them quickly!


Same here. I used to turn mine on/off daily for evening listening sessions, but since this work from home business started I began leaving it on 24/7. No problems.


----------



## tafens

RickB said:


> Seriously, I wonder if the heat from having an Asgard 3 stacked on top of it will eventually prove too much (the Asgard radiates heat from the bottom).


I have Lyr3 on top of my Bifrost2, no problems. I do have some extra rubber feet between them though, giving about 1 cm of clearance total.


----------



## tafens

davidfrance said:


> Outside of the U.S., a repair is a much bigger hassle. If you buy it from "Schiit Europe", they either fix it or get you a unit that does work, but if you buy it direct from Schiit in the U.S. it's yourself that deals with all the hassles.





kumar402 said:


> Schiit customer care is fantastic and hence not a big issue for US based customer but for outside US it can be pretty daunting and expensive to send the DAC all over to US for repair . Finger crossed for my BF2



It probably is a bit of a bigger hassle to send back for warranty repair than sending within US, but what it boils down to is (except the usual stuff of getting an RMA, pack it up and walk/drive to the post office):

1. Find the appropriate customs declarations codes for the type of unit it is and the purpose of sending it (the customs office should be able to help with that if one gives them a call).
2. Fill out the customs form and enclose a printout of the invoice as proof of declared value.
3. Send it (preferably insured). 
4. Nervously follow tracking info until it gets there (optional).

That’s it. They fix it free of charge and send it back free of charge (assuming the repair is covered under warranty of course). The cost of sending it should be in the ballpark of the shipping when originally purchased, depending on insurance costs.


----------



## omniweltall (May 9, 2021)

blackdragon87 said:


> It was on 24/7 with my Jot. Never turned off


Did you stack them? Jot 2 on top of Bifrost 2?

I know Schiit said it is ok to stack them like this. But from my own experience, when I stacked them like that, the Jot 2 runs a lot hotter than the usual. Normally when alone, the Jot 2 runs really really cool. But it got hot when stacked on top of Bifrost 2. The same with Bifrost 2 as well. It ran much hotter when under the Jot 2. There really isn't much space between them. 

So, I bought a lot of different feet and found the perfect match. I added the feet in between the Jot 2 and Bifrost 2, to maximize the air flow. Both run much cooler as if they are separate.


----------



## adamos (May 9, 2021)

omniweltall said:


> Did you stack them? Jot 2 on top of Bifrost 2?
> 
> I know Schiit said it is ok to stack them like this. But from my own experience, when I stacked them like that, the Jot 2 runs a lot hotter than the usual. Normally when alone, the Jot 2 runs really really cool. But it got hot when stacked on top of Bifrost 2. The same with Bifrost 2 as well. It ran much hotter when under the Jot 2. There really isn't much space between them.
> 
> So, I bought a lot of different feet and found the perfect match. I added the feet in between the Jot 2 and Bifrost 2, to maximize the air flow. Both run much cooler as if they are separate.



I had a similar experience with my Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack. I’d read in multiple places here that it’s fine to stack them directly but I didn’t like how warm they’d get, even when the Lyr 3 was off (I keep the Bifrost 2 on 24/7). So I put some feet between them and it’s much better now. I wasn’t sure about how it looked at first but I got used to it and I’m happy with the results:


----------



## omniweltall

adamos said:


> I had a similar experience with my Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack. I’d read in multiple places here that it’s fine to stack them directly but I didn’t like how warm they’d get, even when the Lyr 3 was off (I keep the Bifrost 2 on 24/7). So I put some feet between them and it’s much better now. I wasn’t sure about how it looked at first but I got used to it and I’m happy with the results:


It looks really nice. It's harder to find silver feet to match silver Schiits. Mine are blacks; much easier to find matching feets. 

That's how you're supposed to stack 'em. Btw, if your feet are metal, careful not to scratch the Bifrost. Mine are rubber.


----------



## adamos (May 9, 2021)

omniweltall said:


> It looks really nice. It's harder to find silver feet to match silver Schiits. Mine are blacks; much easier to find matching feets.
> 
> That's how you're supposed to stack 'em. Btw, if your feet are metal, careful not to scratch the Bifrost. Mine are rubber.



Thanks - they are metal but there is a rubber ring on the bottom that prevents the metal from touching the top of the Bifrost 2: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CRH17B8/


----------



## RickB

tafens said:


> I have Lyr3 on top of my Bifrost2, no problems. I do have some extra rubber feet between them though, giving about 1 cm of clearance total.


Can you explain how you attached the feet? Are they stick on feet? Did you just put them on the bottom of the existing feet, or besides them?


----------



## Guidostrunk

adamos said:


> Thanks - they are metal but there is a rubber ring on the bottom that prevents the metal from touching the top of the Bifrost 2: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CRH17B8/


Those are nice bro. I may get a set. Couldn't hurt lol.


----------



## RickB

adamos said:


> I had a similar experience with my Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack. I’d read in multiple places here that it’s fine to stack them directly but I didn’t like how warm they’d get, even when the Lyr 3 was off (I keep the Bifrost 2 on 24/7). So I put some feet between them and it’s much better now. I wasn’t sure about how it looked at first but I got used to it and I’m happy with the results:


Would you have link where those feet can be bought? Thanks.

Edit: never mind. I saw your later post.


----------



## blackdragon87

omniweltall said:


> Did you stack them? Jot 2 on top of Bifrost 2?
> 
> I know Schiit said it is ok to stack them like this. But from my own experience, when I stacked them like that, the Jot 2 runs a lot hotter than the usual. Normally when alone, the Jot 2 runs really really cool. But it got hot when stacked on top of Bifrost 2. The same with Bifrost 2 as well. It ran much hotter when under the Jot 2. There really isn't much space between them.
> 
> So, I bought a lot of different feet and found the perfect match. I added the feet in between the Jot 2 and Bifrost 2, to maximize the air flow. Both run much cooler as if they are separate.



yes stacked jot on top


----------



## omniweltall (May 9, 2021)

RickB said:


> Can you explain how you attached the feet? Are they stick on feet? Did you just put them on the bottom of the existing feet, or besides them?


Feet that has hole that just fits the Jot 2's feet, so that it can't move around.

And not too tall. His is just nice. And looks great too. Get his feet for silver Bifrost 2/Jot 2/Lyr 3, guys.

Mine is shorter than his and not really visible.


----------



## RickB

adamos said:


> Thanks - they are metal but there is a rubber ring on the bottom that prevents the metal from touching the top of the Bifrost 2: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CRH17B8/


Your post caused the feet to go out of stock, lol.


----------



## omniweltall (May 9, 2021)

RickB said:


> Your post caused the feet to go out of stock, lol.


Lol. Stylish feet, right?


----------



## omniweltall (May 9, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> Absolutely. I wonder if thats the culprit here. NO matter what schiit says, its never wise to leave a electrical component capable of generating so much on all the time without giving any kind of break. IMO, it should be common sense. I tunr mine off each night when i m done using it. Knock on wood, none of my audio equipments have ever given me any kind of heat issues or have failed.


I turn on my DAC and SS amps all the time for months and probably more than a year. No issue.

If the dac/amp is properly designed (which Schiits are), I don't see an issue. But if we stack them, and they get hotter than their natural state, could be because of that.


----------



## tameral

What about Target - super cheap option - for reducing heat between Bifrost 2 and Jot 2?

https://www.target.com/p/scotch-4pk-caster-cups-clear/-/A-79391794#lnk=sametab

Any contraindications?  Interesting turn in the thread


----------



## omniweltall

tameral said:


> What about Target - super cheap option - for reducing heat between Bifrost 2 and Jot 2?
> 
> https://www.target.com/p/scotch-4pk-caster-cups-clear/-/A-79391794#lnk=sametab
> 
> Any contraindications?  Interesting turn in the thread


I dont think they are tall enough. Doesn't look very sturdy too. 

I dont have measurements of the feet. Not sure if this one fits exactly or not.


----------



## Ken G

omniweltall said:


> Feet that has hole that just fits the Jot 2's feet, so that it can't move around.
> 
> And not too tall. His is just nice. And looks great too. Get his feet for silver Bifrost 2/Jot 2/Lyr 3, guys.
> 
> Mine is shorter than his and not really visible.


Could you please post a link to the ones you purchased if possible?


----------



## omniweltall

Ken G said:


> Could you please post a link to the ones you purchased if possible?


I don't live in the U.S. But below is the pics.


----------



## RickB

To give Schiit's POV on this issue, here's what @Jason Stoddard has stated.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/page-14#post-15234974

It would be great if he would comment if the recent failures of Bifrost 2's are or are not heat related.


----------



## tafens

RickB said:


> Can you explain how you attached the feet? Are they stick on feet? Did you just put them on the bottom of the existing feet, or besides them?



I just put them on top of the Bifrost2 exactly where the feet of the Lyr3 is.They’re some sort of non-sticky rubber feet for furniture that I found at the store, but turned upside-down the built-in feet of the Lyr3 fit right in to the center hole.


----------



## blackdragon87

RickB said:


> To give Schiit's POV on this issue, here's what @Jason Stoddard has stated.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/page-14#post-15234974
> 
> It would be great if he would comment if the recent failures of Bifrost 2's are or are not heat related.



yes, that would be useful


----------



## emorrison33

I bought these feet, recommended by another member.  I removed the pre-installed feet from the Asgard 3 and put these where the holes were.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GNV4BV1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

emorrison33 said:


> I bought these feet, recommended by another member.  I removed the pre-installed feet from the Asgard 3 and put these where the holes were.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GNV4BV1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I love the Hudson Hifi Feet, "I put that @$/% on everything"!!

Seriously have bought many different feet and lover those!!


----------



## Tsunzo

I received my replacement on Monday and have left it on to burn in, no problems so far. *fingers cross* The Bi-frost 2 made me realize how much the unison usb had improved my audio from background hizz and hums from my Cayin tube amp.


----------



## cgb3

Crowbar44 said:


> Probably...I'm sympathetic though - this is an unprecedented event.  Car companies are losing billions because they can't get chips...
> 
> Funny though...the Schiit AKM DACs are shipping in 2-3 days - and the AKM fab burned down!


But... Schiit purchased a years supply of AKM DACs in advance.

What Schiit didn't purchase... Everything; both what they needed, and what their suppliers needed (how could they have known?).

With an extra topping of no labor "closed because of COVID".


----------



## rkw

cgb3 said:


> But... Schiit purchased a years supply of AKM DACs in advance.


A thought occurred to me... Schiit can resell those chips for a tidy profit


----------



## omniweltall

rkw said:


> A thought occurred to me... Schiit can resell those chips for a tidy profit


Knowing them, they wont do that


----------



## RickB

My add-on feet came in. Unfortunately, the Asgard 3's original feet are too big to fit in the holes on the tops of the add-on feet, but there is a kind of circular depression where the original feet can sit. It's fairly secure and unless you bump it very hard, I don't think the amp is going to move. There are rubber bases on the bottoms of the add-on feet. 

Thanks to all who posted about add-on feet and spurred me into ordering some. I like the results. My Bifrost already feels much cooler to the touch.


----------



## omniweltall (May 14, 2021)

RickB said:


> My add-on feet came in. Unfortunately, the Asgard 3's original feet are too big to fit in the holes on the tops of the add-on feet, but there is a kind of circular depression where the original feet can sit. It's fairly secure and unless you bump it very hard, I don't think the amp is going to move. There are rubber bases on the bottoms of the add-on feet.
> 
> Thanks to all who posted about add-on feet and spurred me into ordering some. I like the results. My Bifrost already feels much cooler to the touch.


That is one good lookin' silver schiit stack.


----------



## Delta9K

RickB said:


> My add-on feet came in. Unfortunately, the Asgard 3's original feet are too big to fit in the holes on the tops of the add-on feet, but there is a kind of circular depression where the original feet can sit. It's fairly secure and unless you bump it very hard, I don't think the amp is going to move. There are rubber bases on the bottoms of the add-on feet.


Looking good. Are those the BLUECELL feet?


----------



## RickB

Delta9K said:


> Looking good. Are those the BLUECELL feet?



Thanks. Yes they are.


----------



## RickB

omniweltall said:


> That is one good lookin' silver schiit stack.


Thanks. It looks better than I thought it would.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

I found these spikes in a drawer, I know I got them for something, Honestly can't remember as soon as I decide if I like it I will put them in the right spot, more towards the ends. I didn't remove the original feet because I wasn't sure. I know one thing it makes it very easy to Swiffer dust!!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can you believe this guy? What?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schiit-Bifrost-2-/294167040927?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> I found these spikes in a drawer, I know I got them for something, Honestly can't remember as soon as I decide if I like it I will put them in the right spot, more towards the ends. I didn't remove the original feet because I wasn't sure. I know one thing it makes it very easy to Swiffer dust!!!


Those look fantastic! Can you remember where you got them? Lol


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Guidostrunk said:


> Can you believe this guy? What?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schiit-Bifrost-2-/294167040927?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


😮😮😮

I wonder if they have any of the new Xbox consoles... Just wondering 😂


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> 😮😮😮
> 
> I wonder if they have any of the new Xbox consoles... Just wondering 😂


😂


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Guidostrunk said:


> Those look fantastic! Can you remember where you got them? Lol


I do like the black and gold look with the black, still undecided lol

Probably Amazon I'll look they my history and post them if I find them.

Thanks


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> I do like the black and gold look with the black, still undecided lol
> 
> Probably Amazon I'll look they my history and post them if I find them.
> 
> Thanks


Thanks bro!


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Guidostrunk said:


> Thanks bro!


Found them, Still a good price too, lol

They are nice and heavy, very well built.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MZJMZSR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ripper2860

I found the sound of my BF2 / VH2 stack to be too sharp with a peaky top-end when using these feet. 😏


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Ripper2860 said:


> I found the sound of my BF2 / VH2 stack to be too sharp with a peaky top-end when using these feet. 😏


😂 😂 😂


----------



## Mightygrey

Ripper2860 said:


> I found the sound of my BF2 / VH2 stack to be too sharp with a peaky top-end when using these feet. 😏


I found that there is too much separation.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

I finally decided to put my Feet/Spikes on the right way and put it where I "think" might be their permanent home, This week at least   !
After all it's not like I can't take them off and put other/or the original feet back on.

Here's a couple pics for those that might be thinking about these.









Cheers


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man that looks fantastic!


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Guidostrunk said:


> Man that looks fantastic!


Thanks very Much Bro, Sitting here looking at it, looks very clean...And I think the Bass is just a tad more pointed now!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Thanks very Much Bro, Sitting here looking at it, looks very clean...And I think the Bass is just a tad more pointed now!!


🤣🤣🤣


----------



## WaveTheory

For any interested, I just posted a review of the BF2:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews#review-25866


----------



## Guidostrunk

WaveTheory said:


> For any interested, I just posted a review of the BF2:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews#review-25866


I absolutely agree with your review. One of the best I've read so far.


----------



## WaveTheory

Guidostrunk said:


> I absolutely agree with your review. One of the best I've read so far.


Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## erroneous

Ripper2860 said:


> I found the sound of my BF2 / VH2 stack to be too sharp with a peaky top-end when using these feet. 😏


Sorbothane, my friend. It's the jam.


----------



## Ripper2860

My choice in foot attire for my audio gear...


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

WaveTheory said:


> For any interested, I just posted a review of the BF2:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews#review-25866


Awesome review, Thank you for posting it!

I knew I had finally found the DAC I was longing for 18 seconds into my first song! A song I knew very well and had heard a 1000 times, and I literally sat up in my chair and said, Wait, what, that's not right...What is going on here...🤣


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Ripper2860 said:


> My choice in foot attire for my audio gear...


Think I bought a case of those last year!! Love them, just wanted to do something a little different for the BF2 this week anyway...lol

Or at least until my audiophile certified, Mr. Darkooo approved "special compound, cylindrical dac stabilizer arrives next week...🤣🤣🤣


----------



## WaveTheory

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Awesome review, Thank you for posting it!
> 
> I knew I had finally found the DAC I was longing for 18 seconds into my first song! A song I knew very well and had heard a 1000 times, and I literally sat up in my chair and said, Wait, what, that's not right...What is going on here...🤣


Thanks for the kind words! BF2 will hold a special place in my heart for some time. It sets the standard at $700 IMO and I keep it around as my mid-fi reference dac. It's timbre is outstanding. That and it's bass punch are competitive with dacs in much higher price tiers. For me it was a gateway drug, too. It said "here's what you've been missing" and then sent me even deeper into the rabbit hole that is this hobby, lol.


----------



## Neweymatt

WaveTheory said:


> For any interested, I just posted a review of the BF2:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews#review-25866


yeah mate, you've summed it up well with that review.  

Not having a chance to audition anything last year, it was a bit of a leap of faith to spend roundabout AU$1k on a DAC.  But now I realise BF2 will be a staple of my audio experience for many years to come, and almost seems a bargain for the enjoyment factor since..


----------



## Lolito

Question to the experts, using USB, what will perform nicer, ARES 2 or Bifrost 2? what would the differences be? I heard Schiit makes very good usb filtering.


----------



## WaveTheory

Lolito said:


> Question to the experts, using USB, what will perform nicer, ARES 2 or Bifrost 2? what would the differences be? I heard Schiit makes very good usb filtering.


I had both for awhile and TBH this is a case where "better" doesn't really apply but "different" does. BF2 and Ares II are essentially technical equals that have different strengths. Ares II has awesome staging and overall spatial re-creation with a more energetic, engaging presentation. BF2 is a little warmer with amazing timbre and punchier, more dynamic low end. I give the slightest edge in resolution to BF2. Ares II has more native decoding options (BF2 does not do DSD, for example). I used both connected via USB for critical listening. IMO the decision will come down to what your sound signature preferences are.


----------



## Lolito

Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it. I am interested on the ARES2, but then if it will not sound well due to USB contamination... I guess a DDC will improve that, and in a bifrost 2, a ddc will not be so mch needed or improve that much, again, these are all just my guesses.


----------



## WaveTheory

Lolito said:


> Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it. I am interested on the ARES2, but then if it will not sound well due to USB contamination... I guess a DDC will improve that, and in a bifrost 2, a ddc will not be so mch needed or improve that much, again, these are all just my guesses.


That's an interesting point. If you're comparing within the units, the BF2 sounds noticeably better from its USB input than its spdif inputs - that's without a DDC. The Ares II has less of a performance gap - that I can remember anyway - between its USB and spdif inputs. The comparison I gave above was USB vs USB for the two models. I have a DDC now that I didn't have when I had those two in house at the same time. I still have the BF2 but it's boxed up right now as I have a move impending, otherwise I'd give it a try with the DDC.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I had both as well. My thoughts on the 2 are the exact opposite on the post above regarding the Ares. The Ares was warmer, less dynamic, nice soundstage but lacked the depth of the BF2. The BF2 is fantastic at layering and imaging with robust dynamic swings and a very visceral bass presence. The BF2 is very holographic while the Ares pushed everything in front and to the sides in the image. More like a wall of sound vs a globe of sound. 
That's how my ears heard it.


----------



## WaveTheory

Guidostrunk said:


> I had both as well. My thoughts on the 2 are the exact opposite on the post above regarding the Ares. The Ares was warmer, less dynamic, nice soundstage but lacked the depth of the BF2. The BF2 is fantastic at layering and imaging with robust dynamic swings and a very visceral bass presence. The BF2 is very holographic while the Ares pushed everything in front and to the sides in the image. More like a wall of sound vs a globe of sound.
> That's how my ears heard it.



Interesting. I found NOS mode really helped the Ares and that's where it's staging really came to life. Most of the comparisons I did between the two would have been with Liquid Platinum and Lake People G111 amps with HiFiMan Edition X V2, LCD-2 prefazor, DT880 600 ohm, and HD6XX, if that helps with context. Also, I meant to add above that to say one of these DACs did one thing well in no way means the other one isn't good at it; they're both very, very good DACs across the board.


----------



## Guidostrunk

WaveTheory said:


> Interesting. I found NOS mode really helped the Ares and that's where it's staging really came to life. Most of the comparisons I did between the two would have been with Liquid Platinum and Lake People G111 amps with HiFiMan Edition X V2, LCD-2 prefazor, DT880 600 ohm, and HD6XX, if that helps with context. Also, I meant to add above that to say one of these DACs did one thing well in no way means the other one isn't good at it; they're both very, very good DACs across the board.


Absolutely agree. They're both great dacs. I suppose synergy is the key as well. 

Cheers.


----------



## UntilThen

I have Bifrost 2, Topping D90, NAD M51 and Yggdrasil. The reason I keep them is because IMO they are good sounding dac.


----------



## cgb3

WaveTheory said:


> I had both for awhile and TBH this is a case where "better" doesn't really apply but "different" does. BF2 and Ares II are essentially technical equals that have different strengths. Ares II has awesome staging and overall spatial re-creation with a more energetic, engaging presentation. BF2 is a little warmer with amazing timbre and punchier, more dynamic low end. I give the slightest edge in resolution to BF2. Ares II has more native decoding options (BF2 does not do DSD, for example). I used both connected via USB for critical listening. IMO the decision will come down to what your sound signature preferences are.


Depending on where you live, one may prefer one over the other.

Ares II is from China.

BF2 is made in America.


----------



## WaveTheory

cgb3 said:


> Depending on where you live, one may prefer one over the other.
> 
> Ares II is from China.
> 
> BF2 is made in America.



This is true. And last I knew they are both very hard to get right now. Schiit is having supply issues like crazy and I believe Vinshine (Denafrips' distributor) is also experiencing significant delays. Might be worth it to create a WTB post for either if anyone is interested.


----------



## Lolito

vinshine are fine, talked to them recently and I have friends with their denafrips dacs shipped from stock immediately.


----------



## UntilThen

Lolito said:


> vinshine are fine, talked to them recently and I have friends with their denafrips dacs shipped from stock immediately.



Alvin of Vinshine gets my top recommendation and I didn't even buy a dac from him.  Well I almost did when Denafrips Ares was in it's infancy and Alvin is super nice. I end up buying Yggdrasil then. That was 2017.


----------



## WaveTheory

Lolito said:


> vinshine are fine, talked to them recently and I have friends with their denafrips dacs shipped from stock immediately.


Sweet! Thanks for the update.


----------



## jdaeira (May 21, 2021)

I have a JOT 2 with a Modius right now. Loving it! Would it upgrading to a Bifrost 2 be a worthwhile upgrade over the Modius? I've heard that the JOT 2 sounds amazing with the BF 2.


----------



## WaveTheory

jdaeira said:


> I have a JOT 2 with a Modius right now. Loving it! Would it upgrading to a Bifrost 2 be a worthwhile upgrade over the Modius? I've heard that the JOT 2 sounds amazing with the BF 2.


BF2 will sound a bit less neutral, leaning a bit to warm, thick, and fun. Outside of that, literally everything is an upgrade. Better spatial presentation, detail retrieval, timbre, etc. The BF2 is also punchier and more dynamic in the bass. I recommend using BF2's usb connection because that's where the biggest gap between it and Modius shows up. BF2 has some galvanic isolation in its USB connection and Modius does not. BF2's spdif inputs are kinda meh, tbh.


----------



## jdaeira

WaveTheory said:


> BF2 will sound a bit less neutral, leaning a bit to warm, thick, and fun. Outside of that, literally everything is an upgrade. Better spatial presentation, detail retrieval, timbre, etc. The BF2 is also punchier and more dynamic in the bass. I recommend using BF2's usb connection because that's where the biggest gap between it and Modius shows up. BF2 has some galvanic isolation in its USB connection and Modius does not. BF2's spdif inputs are kinda meh, tbh.


Thank you very much for your input. Have a pair of Aeolus on order. Want to get the best possible sound out of them


----------



## WaveTheory

jdaeira said:


> Thank you very much for your input. Have a pair of Aeolus on order. Want to get the best possible sound out of them


Nice! Nothing wrong with a BF2. You may also consider a Soekris dac1321 paired with a Violectric HPA-V200. On the used market you can score that stack in the $800-900 range. I say this because the Aeolus is a bit on the smoother side. The Soekris in particular is a bit more analytical and will tighten that up some. The V200 will have all the quality power you need. Food for thought. Happy hunting!


----------



## UntilThen

I've been through quite a few setups and this with Bifrost 2, v280, Taurus, He1000se and LCD3f is pretty good combination.


----------



## ctrlm

I've decided to get a Bifrost 2 to compliment my current "better measuring" and more analytical DACs, I think I crave some euphoric multibit distortion for a change of flavour. I think it will pair well with my Topping A90.

Too bad I can't get one anywhere in OZ and I see the lead time is 4 to 6 weeks on the Schiit site - yikes!


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

ctrlm said:


> I've decided to get a Bifrost 2 to compliment my current "better measuring" and more analytical DACs, I think I crave some euphoric multibit distortion for a change of flavour. I think it will pair well with my Topping A90.
> 
> Too bad I can't get one anywhere in OZ and I see the lead time is 4 to 6 weeks on the Schiit site - yikes!


Exactly why I got my BF2, I have more than enough of the so called “better” DACs, funny I rarely find myself craving those lol!!


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Ok, so here goes...

First off I am not in either camp that cables sound different or not, I believe some make a difference, I believe some are just truly snake oil, and I also believe that the people that believe cables are cables are a bit off the mark in the way they judge it by measurements. I am a firm believer in Worlds best cables, and some audioquest, why? Build quality and yes I have heard differences with them so I continue to use them. Nothing to crazy, and no that's not a knock to those that pay hundreds of dollars on cables. My personal feeling is I do not have equipment worthy of that level of spoiling, lol

Now onto the point,

There's been a few posts here regarding USB cables and if it matters..Today I became a believer in they can, and to be honest I'm looking for some answers, and possibly for some to try this cable. A friend of mine who has way, way more expensive equipment than I, told me to order this cable and just give it a chance. So i'm going to share my brief experience with it and hopefully a few of you will grab one and tell me I'm nuts. By the way I am ordering 2 more after I'm done here, lol

So here's the cable...






It's from Monosaudio, and I got it off Amazon. I am currently using it on my BF2 and all I can say is...

It's awesome! I immediately noticed a difference in the bass being stronger, or tighter, not sure which. The midrange is pretty much what it was. The highs are not as sharp as the were with the other USB, they are very present just not as harsh. And here's the kicker I was listening to a song I have heard a million times and I went wait, huh??

I'm hearing tiny details in the music I did not or did not notice before! Help!! Someone get this cable and tell me I F'n crazy please, I'm begging, lol

It's a beautiful well built quality cable, just the feel of it speaks to it. Finally I have no earthly idea what the sliding metal band is for so if someone can help me out there as well. Also I do not work for this company nor do I in any way get paid for this. Never even heard the name before my friend told me.

I'll give you guys the link, and if anyone tries one, please come back here and reply to my post. I am patiently waiting for the, this cable sucks and you're out of your damn mind Bubba!!   

Cheers!!

Link...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H8SMTYV?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details


----------



## Delta9K (May 28, 2021)

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Ok, so here goes...
> 
> First off I am not in either camp that cables sound different or not, I believe some make a difference, I believe some are just truly snake oil, and I also believe that the people that believe cables are cables are a bit off the mark in the way they judge it by measurements. I am a firm believer in
> 
> ...


Appears to be the same cable here, maybe?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MZ2TZ1S/ref=emc_b_5_t

Either way - I have recently become enlightened to "Cables" matter. Started off with headphone cables, and though I did not want to hear a difference I did, even with $200-400 cables. I haven't gone over the edge (yet) with $700+ cables but who knows...

Point is I have been picking out some USB cables in the same manner starting off with <$125 first - to see if I can hear a difference (with my luck I probably will - RIP wallet...) So, I ordered a Pangea Premier and a Audioquest Forest cable - And the cable that you linked - not the other I found.

Well that Monosaudio branded cable arrived first. I'm going to wait a week or so before swapping it in because I also in the last week added a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 into my primary signal chain. I am already hearing improvements from that addition so need to give my head and ears sometime to recalculate a baseline before introducing another variable.  I will be sure to let you know how it goes.

Oh as far as I can figure, that collar (has three arrows) is just to indicate direction (though USB is bi-di?), just like on the worlds best cables, only they use a tag.

Cheers!


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Delta9K said:


> Appears to be the same cable here, maybe?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MZ2TZ1S/ref=emc_b_5_t
> 
> Either way - I have recently become enlightened to "Cables" matter. Started off with headphone cables, and though I did not want to hear a difference I did, even with $200-400 cables. I haven't gone over the edge (yet) with $700+ cables but who knows...
> ...


Best of luck to you, I completely agree with the break I do that also. I’m waiting on my AQ Cinnamon to see between the two, it becomes an arduous task to try to point out what is different, when you hear it you know but to translate that to someone is extremely hard, so I tried to be honest and fair to everyone. Looking forward to your thoughts on that cable, going to check out the one you linked when I get home!

Cheers!!


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Finally decided on some feet for my gear, I think they look pretty good. I shall call it, "The Majestic Tower".  LMAO


----------



## Guidostrunk

Looks fantastic bro! Which ones did you get? Possible link? Thanks


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Guidostrunk said:


> Looks fantastic bro! Which ones did you get? Possible link? Thanks


Thanks man, Appreciate it! I settled on the Monosaudio "gold feet" the others will go in a drawer for me to find years from now and put on something...lol

2 Links, 1 for the feet and one for the pads I use to stick them on, easy to change them later if I feel like it, lol...Cheers!!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0819GD9JC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QHX6TV8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Enjoy!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hell yeah! Thanks man!


----------



## yagislav (Jun 3, 2021)

Hi guys, just picked up a Bifrost 2 today. Since there are no drivers to install on my windows 10 machine, in Roon, the only option is to use as WASAPI.  I will attach some screenshots of my setup in Roon. Could someone help me out and let me know if I have the proper / optimal setup for the BF2? All my other DAC's that I have used previously came with drivers that I had to install and then I could select the ASIO driver for the particular DAC. This is my first time using a Schiit DAC.

Thanks!


----------



## Delta9K (Jun 3, 2021)

WASAPI is fine, and is bit perfect - and is your only option with the BF2. I actually use WASAPI even when ASIO is an option, this is a matter of personal choice though and I'm not wanting to argue which is better. IMO as long as the correct data gets to the DAC in a timely matter it will be fine.

Regarding your roon settings, they look good to me. I don't use Tidal so I have the MQA settings disabled but other than that they are pretty much the same.
I'm sure you have already seen this but sharing anyway incase it helps. https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/audio-setup-basics  Also, near the end of the "Advanced" settings there are additional audio notes related to your specific device OS discussing WASAPI /ASIO etc., and options you may find interesting,


----------



## yagislav

Delta9K said:


> WASAPI is fine, and is bit perfect - and is your only option with the BF2. I actually use WASAPI even when ASIO is an option, this is a matter of personal choice though and I'm not wanting to argue which is better. IMO as long as the correct data gets to the DAC in a timely matter it will be fine.
> 
> Regarding your roon settings, they look good to me. I don't use Tidal so I have the MQA settings disabled but other than that they are pretty much the same.
> I'm sure you have already seen this but sharing anyway incase it helps. https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/audio-setup-basics  Also, near the end of the "Advanced" settings there are additional audio notes related to your specific device OS discussing WASAPI /ASIO etc., and options you may find interesting,


Thank you! very helpful.


----------



## lexx510

Delta9K said:


> WASAPI is fine, and is bit perfect - and is your only option with the BF2. I actually use WASAPI even when ASIO is an option, this is a matter of personal choice though and I'm not wanting to argue which is better. IMO as long as the correct data gets to the DAC in a timely matter it will be fine.
> 
> Regarding your roon settings, they look good to me. I don't use Tidal so I have the MQA settings disabled but other than that they are pretty much the same.
> I'm sure you have already seen this but sharing anyway incase it helps. https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/audio-setup-basics  Also, near the end of the "Advanced" settings there are additional audio notes related to your specific device OS discussing WASAPI /ASIO etc., and options you may find interesting,


I can't seem to tell the difference between WASAPI and ASIO, but tend to use WASAPI as well.


----------



## 2ndWedge

lexx510 said:


> I can't seem to tell the difference between WASAPI and ASIO, but tend to use WASAPI as well.


I noticed in the manual for the new Bluesound Node that they are reversing the usb A port to be outgoing.  Might make a good streamer now for $550 US.  Connected to a Bifrost 2 of course.


----------



## Mightygrey

2ndWedge said:


> I noticed in the manual for the new Bluesound Node that they are reversing the usb A port to be outgoing.  Might make a good streamer now for $550 US.  Connected to a Bifrost 2 of course.


A Chromecast Audio feeding the Bifrost 2 makes for a super convenient, and super affordable streamer. It's Roon ready too, which is so bloody helpful.


----------



## 2ndWedge

Mightygrey said:


> A Chromecast Audio feeding the Bifrost 2 makes for a super convenient, and super affordable streamer. It's Roon ready too, which is so bloody helpful.


Been noise about DDC’s such as the Denafrips Iris helping sub $1,000 dacs but it makes no difference connected to the Bifrost 2.  It is that well designed. Amazing usb implementation.


----------



## lexx510

Mightygrey said:


> A Chromecast Audio feeding the Bifrost 2 makes for a super convenient, and super affordable streamer. It's Roon ready too, which is so bloody helpful.


IF I recall correctly, I remember Chromecast Audio limiting to 256kbps  on Spotify. I'm not sure if it also has the same limits on other hi res platforms?


----------



## duranxv

Now that people have been using the BF2 for a few months now, how do you think it compares with the Gungnir Multibit and the Yggdrasil?

Also, has there been any issues with latency with any of the multibits when using them for gaming or HD movies?


----------



## rkw (Jun 5, 2021)

lexx510 said:


> IF I recall correctly, I remember Chromecast Audio limiting to 256kbps  on Spotify. I'm not sure if it also has the same limits on other hi res platforms?


Currently, Spotify's maximum resolution is 320 kbps using Ogg Vorbis codec, but Spotify sends 256 kbps AAC to Chromecast Audio endpoints. Spotify will offer CD quality (16-bit/44.1 kHz) lossless streaming later this year.

Tidal and Qobuz can stream at CD quality 16/44 to Chromecast Audio. In theory, Chromecast Audio supports up to 24/96 but the audio stutters occasionally if you try to stream Qobuz at that rate.


----------



## Mightygrey

lexx510 said:


> IF I recall correctly, I remember Chromecast Audio limiting to 256kbps  on Spotify. I'm not sure if it also has the same limits on other hi res platforms?


It goes up to 24-bit/96khz.


----------



## rkw (Jun 5, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Now that people have been using the BF2 for a few months now, how do you think it compares with the Gungnir Multibit and the Yggdrasil?
> 
> Also, has there been any issues with latency with any of the multibits when using them for gaming or HD movies?


A few months? Bifrost 2 was released almost 2 years ago! If you search, there are many comparisons on this forum and the web.

In general, there is no perceptible latency in DACs. Latency issues are caused by delays elsewhere, such as wireless connections or other audio stream processing.


----------



## duranxv (Jun 5, 2021)

rkw said:


> A few months? Bifrost 2 was released almost 2 years ago! If you search, there are many comparisons on this forum and the web.
> 
> In general, there is no perceptible latency in DACs. Latency issues are caused by delays elsewhere, such as wireless connections or other audio stream processing.



My bad, I meant the upgraded BF2


----------



## cgb3 (Jun 7, 2021)

Interesting anomaly.

My chain: Bifrost 2 > Jotunheim 2/Lyr 3.

Last night, listening via the Jot with the Lyr3 as a pre-amp, I overextended (placed stress) on my balanced headphone cable (senn. HD800s), looking for an album. I never separated the hp cord to amp, but my right channel went mute.

Change cable to the HD800S no joy. Change cable to SE, no joy.

Change headphones to DC Aeon 2 open. No joy. Switch source to Lyr3, muted channel switches to left.

I re-booted my PC, no joy.

Re-booted Bifrost 2 (via power switch on back). Light show, then, a squelching sound (if you've ever heard RF inter channel-radio interference, that was close) but I've never heard that sound from the Bifrost2.

Joy. Everything seems back to normal. All devices appear to function as normal today.

I'm curious, what happened?


----------



## Tralfaz

For everyone in the Apple ecosystem, Apple Hi-Res Lossless is now live on Apple Music if you're subscribed.  I've been listening to a selection of tunes this morning and the Bifrost 2 has had no issues with playback so far (though not everything has been Hi-Res, everything had been ALAC).


----------



## RickB

Tralfaz said:


> For everyone in the Apple ecosystem, Apple Hi-Res Lossless is now live on Apple Music if you're subscribed.  I've been listening to a selection of tunes this morning and the Bifrost 2 has had no issues with playback so far (though not everything has been Hi-Res, everything had been ALAC).


Does the Apple Music player do automatic sample rate switching (exclusive mode)?


----------



## Tralfaz

RickB said:


> Does the Apple Music player do automatic sample rate switching (exclusive mode)?


I'm not certain about this since I haven't looked under the hood.

This morning I launched Apple Music, went to Preferences and then Playback where I chose "High Resolution Lossless (ALAC up to 24-bit/192kHz)", hit Save, and started listening.

You might find more info about this online but for now, this is all I have.


----------



## Ken G

RickB said:


> Does the Apple Music player do automatic sample rate switching (exclusive mode)?


No. It defaults to the Midi setting on a MAC. I've tried the apps "Soundsource" and "Bit Perfect" and neither work in automatically switching sample rate based on the song.


----------



## RickB

Ken G said:


> No. It defaults to the Midi setting on a MAC. I've tried the apps "Soundsource" and "Bit Perfect" and neither work in automatically switching sample rate based on the song.


That sucks. That's the main problem I see with lossless streaming. Amazon doesn't do it, either. It does happen in Tidal and Qobuz at least when using Audirvana.


----------



## RickB

Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res Mess

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits-and-bytes/apple-musics-lossless-and-hi-res-mess-r1022/


----------



## Ken G

RickB said:


> That sucks. That's the main problem I see with lossless streaming. Amazon doesn't do it, either. It does happen in Tidal and Qobuz at least when using Audirvana.



Audirvana is worth every penny and has great functionality but you don't even need it for bit perfect streaming of Tidal or Qobuz. Both of them have exclusive mode for audio (which bypasses the OS X Midi) in their native music Apps.


----------



## Tralfaz

Ken G said:


> Audirvana is worth every penny and has great functionality but you don't even need it for bit perfect streaming of Tidal or Qobuz. Both of them have exclusive mode for audio (which bypasses the OS X Midi) in their native music Apps.


I've used Audirvana for a while now and it's terrific.  I noted the Apple Hi-Res Lossless because it's the only streaming service I subscribe to and the Lossless/Hi=Res upgrade doesn't cost me anything more while allowing m to enjoy what I stream a little bit more.


----------



## cgb3 (Jun 12, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> Appears to be the same cable here, maybe?
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MZ2TZ1S/ref=emc_b_5_t
> 
> Either way - I have recently become enlightened to "Cables" matter. Started off with headphone cables, and though I did not want to hear a difference I did, even with $200-400 cables. I haven't gone over the edge (yet) with $700+ cables but who knows...
> ...


I purchased the Viborg 2M USB-A > USB-B this past week. Nothing wrong with my current USB cable, but, you know, no cost to ship, no cost to return.

Maybe in a parallel Universe, USB cables actually make a difference. In this case, intermittent signal loss to my Bifrost 2.

I returned to my https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCNPQL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

cgb3 said:


> I purchased the Viborg 2M USB-A > USB-B this past week. Nothing wrong with my current USB cable, but, you know, no cost to ship, no cost to return.
> 
> Maybe in a parallel Universe, USB cables actually make a difference. In this case, intermittent signal loss to my Bifrost 2.
> 
> I returned to my https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCNPQL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1.


That's too bad but good to know! Thank you!

I have had no issues with mine too any of my dacs, I now have 3 😂!!

Good to have spares!!!


----------



## Delta9K

cgb3 said:


> I purchased the Viborg 2M USB-A > USB-B this past week. Nothing wrong with my current USB cable, but, you know, no cost to ship, no cost to return.
> 
> Maybe in a parallel Universe, USB cables actually make a difference. In this case, intermittent signal loss to my Bifrost 2.
> 
> I returned to my https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCNPQL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1.


I have not experienced any drop outs etc., but I've swapped out for a DH Labs cable. I was picking up one of their AES/EBU digital XLR cables for another chain, and thought what the hell, let's get a couple USB cables too. https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/usb/


----------



## Lvivske

cgb3 said:


> I purchased the Viborg 2M USB-A > USB-B this past week. Nothing wrong with my current USB cable, but, you know, no cost to ship, no cost to return.
> 
> Maybe in a parallel Universe, USB cables actually make a difference. In this case, intermittent signal loss to my Bifrost 2.
> 
> I returned to my https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DCNPQL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1.



nice, actually using the exact same cable and find it just as terrific as a usb-c cable can be


----------



## Lvivske

I have a question about the Bifrost v Bifrost 2

Basically, is the 'galvanic isolation' of the modern Unison USB port worth it? Like above about the cable, I dont notice any signal noise from my computer at all, so is this something one would benefit from over the 5th gen on the B1?

Was also contemplating hooking this up to an Pi2AES or Apple Airport Express in which case I'd be using Toslink into a DAC....is the Tos input on the B1 worse or is everything equal if the source component is clean?

And this, the actual internal Audio Devices chip, is the upgraded 18 bit chip what makes the Bifrost 2 so good, or is it the power supply; basically, are there other factors to the B2 that makes it _gooder_ outside of the USB input?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Are the other PI2AES outputs reserved for other devices that you are planning to use TOSLINK? I'd always choose the Pi2AES over the Unison USB but only in the case of using XLR, BNC and SPDIF.

Most resolve, attack, cleanliness, best "dimensionality" vs. slight wetness, warmth, less depth and more rounded attacks (still pretty good, no doubt). I actually still used my Lynx to the BF2 over the Unison in the end.
Good to have Unison over any other USB solution though, especially when no streamers are around.

BF2 is the sum of all parts except it doesn't have the fancy reclocking of the bigger DACs.
And of course the closed form filter which is basically what makes these DACs so special. Thus for Schiit DACs I limit streaming to 44,1/48khz.

Nobody needs 814592khz/444096 bit anyway.


----------



## 2ndWedge

Fegefeuer said:


> Are the other PI2AES outputs reserved for other devices that you are planning to use TOSLINK? I'd always choose the Pi2AES over the Unison USB but only in the case of using XLR, BNC and SPDIF.
> 
> Most resolve, attack, cleanliness, best "dimensionality" vs. slight wetness, warmth, less depth and more rounded attacks (still pretty good, no doubt). I actually still used my Lynx to the BF2 over the Unison in the end.
> Good to have Unison over any other USB solution though, especially when no streamers are around.
> ...


Check out ifi’s new Zen Streamer


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

2ndWedge said:


> Check out ifi’s new Zen Streamer


Must Have one now!!! Dammit not available...Yet, love my original Zen


----------



## duranxv

For those who have owned both a Gumby and a BF2, how close in terms of overall sound are they?  Should I even bother paying almost double for the Gumby or just settle with the Bifrost?  This would mainly be a headphone setup, and paired with a single ended amp.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Anyone had luck with their BF2 shipping? I ordered mine a bit over 8 weeks ago.


----------



## quimbo

ColdsnapBry said:


> Anyone had luck with their BF2 shipping? I ordered mine a bit over 8 weeks ago.


Ordered 4/23, arrived today.  Replaced a BiFrosy multi bit gen 5 usb.


----------



## omniweltall

quimbo said:


> Ordered 4/23, arrived today.  Replaced a BiFrosy multi bit gen 5 usb.


You're in for a treat...enjoy mate.


----------



## Lvivske

quimbo said:


> Ordered 4/23, arrived today.  Replaced a BiFrosy multi bit gen 5 usb.



would love to hear your early impressions going directly from 1 to 2


----------



## ColdsnapBry (Jun 26, 2021)

quimbo said:


> Ordered 4/23, arrived today.  Replaced a BiFrosy multi bit gen 5 usb.



Ah, ok. Mine should ship soonish then.

I've been using the AK DAC inside my Asgard 3 since I started this hobby couple years ago. Maybe I'll notice a difference upgrading!


----------



## mammal

Fegefeuer said:


> Are the other PI2AES outputs reserved for other devices that you are planning to use TOSLINK? I'd always choose the Pi2AES over the Unison USB but only in the case of using XLR, BNC and SPDIF.


My experience with Pi2AES was a bit different than yours - Bifrost 2 sounded best with Unison USB, where as other DACs (like Chord Hugo TT 2) sounded better off Pi2AES' toslink.


----------



## Lvivske

Noticed the product page doesnt have the S logo on the chassis like the physical ones ive seen in this thread, did they change the design or is that just a placeholder image?


----------



## jnak00

Lvivske said:


> Noticed the product page doesnt have the S logo on the chassis like the physical ones ive seen in this thread, did they change the design or is that just a placeholder image?



Mine doesn’t have an S. It’s from shortly after release


----------



## omniweltall

I think the recent units should have the Schiit Logo.


----------



## Neweymatt

Lvivske said:


> Noticed the product page doesnt have the S logo on the chassis like the physical ones ive seen in this thread, did they change the design or is that just a placeholder image?


My Silver one has the logo on the top, but it's the only one I've seen IRL, dunno what they do with the black ones?

Either way, I'm pretty sure it will sound the same


----------



## Lvivske

Neweymatt said:


> My Silver one has the logo on the top, but it's the only one I've seen IRL, dunno what they do with the black ones?


black ones had the logo as well recently in this thread, just like the silver ones on the product page no longer have it

just a curiosity


----------



## RickB

omniweltall said:


> I think the recent units should have the Schiit Logo.


Mine does, almost 3 months old.


----------



## Rattle

August 2020 for me and logo is there.


----------



## Lvivske

Schiit informed me there is no difference in the units

Didnt bother to ask when the change happened, not sure if its even consistent


----------



## Neweymatt

Lvivske said:


> Schiit informed me there is no difference in the units
> 
> Didnt bother to ask when the change happened, not sure if its even consistent


Did you actually email them to ask this??  You must be really bored!!


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 28, 2021)

Neweymatt said:


> Did you actually email them to ask this??  You must be really bored!!



Incredibly.

(I haven't bought mine yet so wanted to make sure there weren't 2 versions, just found out the other day my headphones came in 2 versions with the same name)


----------



## omniweltall

No doubt there is only one version. We were only talking about the logo. Earlier units didn't seem to have the logo.


----------



## Lvivske

Yeah but I'm _really _bored.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Lvivske said:


> Yeah but I'm _really _bored.


See now you have to order! Trust me you won't be bored once you get yours! 😂😂


----------



## RickB

omniweltall said:


> No doubt there is only one version. We were only talking about the logo. Earlier units didn't seem to have the logo.


Yes, but the extra silkscreen subtly alters how vibrations affect the sound of the unit.


----------



## Neweymatt

Lvivske said:


> Incredibly.
> 
> (I haven't bought mine yet so wanted to make sure there weren't 2 versions, just found out the other day my headphones came in 2 versions with the same name)


Fair enough mate!  People obsess over the smallest things in this hobby, but I get you want to be sure you’re getting the real deal with BF2.


----------



## omniweltall

RickB said:


> Yes, but the extra silkscreen subtly alters how vibrations affect the sound of the unit.


You have a point there, mate LoL.


----------



## schneiderdn1974

Lvivske said:


> Incredibly.
> 
> (I haven't bought mine yet so wanted to make sure there weren't 2 versions, just found out the other day my headphones came in 2 versions with the same name)


If you're still on the fence about the Bifrost 2, below is a video that provides a really good review of the unit, including the sound signature. I purchased my Bifrost 2 this past January (an upgrade from the Modi) and can't say enough good things about it. I also appreciate that Schiit made the Bifrost 2 upgradable via their "Autonomy™" modular design, so you're good to go if they decide to update anything in the future.


----------



## Lvivske (Jun 29, 2021)

schneiderdn1974 said:


> If you're still on the fence about the Bifrost 2, below is a video that provides a really good review of the unit



Trust me when I say, I've watched every video on youtube at this point

that one maybe 3 times

very, very bored lol



Mr BubbaHyde said:


> See now you have to order! Trust me you won't be bored once you get yours! 😂😂


Yeah, just 6-8 weeks of excitement!


----------



## mammal

Lvivske said:


> Yeah, just 6-8 weeks of excitement!


Just to comfort you, in other threads, the are folks that have been waiting on items anywhere from 15 weeks to 15 months, due to parts shortage and all.


----------



## Mightygrey

mammal said:


> Just to comfort you, in other threads, the are folks that have been waiting on items anywhere from 15 weeks to 15 months, due to parts shortage and all.


Sitting here listening to this combination, I can promise you that it's well worth the wait. Hang in there.


----------



## omniweltall

Mightygrey said:


> Sitting here listening to this combination, I can promise you that it's well worth the wait. Hang in there.


Bifrost 2 + Crack + HD600 = Audio Nirvana. You got really great taste there, mate. I would classify that as end-game setup. 



Lvivske said:


> Trust me when I say, I've watched every video on youtube at this point
> 
> that one maybe 3 times
> 
> ...


I know how it feels. Hang in there, buddy. Like others said, it is definitely worth the wait. The Bifrost 2 is really something. 

Look at the positive side. When it does arrive, you'll see. It's a great feeling


----------



## kumar402

Somehow I don’t like HD6X0 series out of this DAC but it just may be me.


----------



## gdwallasign

kumar402 said:


> Somehow I don’t like HD6X0 series out of this DAC but it just may be me.


What's bugging you about it?


----------



## Lvivske

Now I want some Crack maybe...damn this forum...


----------



## mab1376

kumar402 said:


> Somehow I don’t like HD6X0 series out of this DAC but it just may be me.



My HD650 sounds amazing with it paired with my Little Dot MK IV SE or the Jotunheim 2, I use Dekoni elite hybrid pads with them though which adds a bit more bass weight.


----------



## cgb3

Lvivske said:


> Trust me when I say, I've watched every video on youtube at this point
> 
> that one maybe 3 times
> 
> ...


So, stop watching. Problem solved.


----------



## Lvivske

cgb3 said:


> So, stop watching. Problem solved.



Why would I still be watching old reviews? :/


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 8, 2021)

A dirty little secret:  I like to re-watch positive reviews of products I own so I can sit there shaking my head and whole-heartedly agree with the reviewer while admiring their reviewing prowess.


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> A dirty little secret:  I like to re-watch positive reviews of products I own so I can sit there shaking my head and whole-heartedly agree with the reviewer while admiring their reviewing prowess.



_This is the way._


----------



## RickB

Ripper2860 said:


> A dirty little secret:  I like to re-watch positive reviews of products I own so I can sit there shaking my head and whole-heartedly agree with the reviewer while admiring their reviewing prowess.


I like to watch negative reviews of products I own so I can get angry.

(Not really.)


----------



## Neweymatt

Ripper2860 said:


> A dirty little secret:  I like to re-watch positive reviews of products I own so I can sit there shaking my head and whole-heartedly agree with the reviewer while admiring their reviewing prowess.


I may still be a little new around here, but I'm pretty sure this is why Head-Fi exists


----------



## omniweltall (Jul 2, 2021)

I find reviews quite useless, or completely misleading.


----------



## Neweymatt

omniweltall said:


> I find reviews quite useless, or compeltely misleading.


This depends entirely on the reviewer. I bought both the Asgard3 and Bifrost2 blind after spending quite a lot of time reading and watching tons of reviews. After a while you can figure out who to trust. Very happy I did


----------



## DTgill

Ripper2860 said:


> A dirty little secret:  I like to re-watch positive reviews of products I own so I can sit there shaking my head and whole-heartedly agreeing with the reviewer while admiring their reviewing prowess.


Good thing I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read this, I might have drowned


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Is it because I ordered the Black one that I got mine while everyone was waiting or just dumb luck? I'm inclined to the latter, lol


----------



## cgb3

Lvivske said:


> Why would I still be watching old reviews? :/


To cure your boredom?


----------



## Smoothstereo

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Finally decided on some feet for my gear, I think they look pretty good. I shall call it, "The Majestic Tower".  LMAO


Nice stack and feet. Did you had to remove the original black rubber feet on the Bifrost2 before sticking on the new silver feet with double sided tape? I'm planning to get the feet you have and want to check how you swapped the feet without scratching the units.


----------



## Maelob (Jul 3, 2021)

I just saw wait time of 6-8 weeks, i ordered my on 1 June, so will see how much longer


----------



## ecapsretliab (Jul 9, 2021)

Maelob said:


> I just saw wait time of 6-8 weeks, i ordered my on 1 June, so will see how much longer


May 7th for me...  Hoping they don't just send me this in a box.




Shipped


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 4, 2021)

Just to put these wait times into perspective...

I placed an order for LRS speakers directly with Magnepan on 3/15.  The wait was 15 weeks at that time with an ETA of late June. Called to check on the ETA and it is now likely mid to late August.  Folks that placed their orders in January and February should receive them sometime in July.

It ain't just Schiit.  😒


----------



## Maelob

Bitfrost coming yeahhh, around 4 weeks since I ordered.


----------



## omniweltall

Maelob said:


> Bitfrost coming yeahhh, around 4 weeks since I ordered.


Feeling anxious? Trouble breathing?


----------



## Gorillaphant

Hey folks, dumb question but is there a painless way to remove the rubber feet from the Jotunheim 2? I bought these to create a bigger gap between my Jot2 and Bifrost 2 but I don't want to scratch up the surface of either unit. Otherwise the BF2 tends to get really hot.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CRK31S2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Don't know about the Jot, but both my Modius and BF2 had pop off rubber feet. I just used a tiny eyeglass screwdriver to pry a side up then pulled them off.

I have pretty much the same feet as you, just in gold. I used pop socket stickys to put them on. That way I can change them easy, when the mood strikes me,...🤣🤣🤣


----------



## RogerHuston

The BF2 is a fantastic little DAC.  I only had mine of a couple of weeks before upgrading to the Gumby.  The only reason I upgraded was that I got an MJ2 after visiting the Schiitr in Newhall so I wanted a DAC to match.  Funny, once people in my Audio chat's knew I got the Gumby, I had 3 people offering to buy the BF2.  I didn't even have to list it, that's how popular it is.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Don't know about the Jot, but both my Modius and BF2 had pop off rubber feet. I just used a tiny eyeglass screwdriver to pry a side up then pulled them off.
> 
> I have pretty much the same feet as you, just in gold. I used pop socket stickys to put them on. That way I can change them easy, when the mood strikes me,...🤣🤣🤣


Thanks! This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for - it looks like the Jot 2 feet are the same as the BF2 feet and the eyeglass screwdriver did the trick.


----------



## Maelob

Question for Tidal users, I just connected my BF2 for the first time on my MAC.  just noticed after initially setting the BF2 in tidal to Exclusive mode and force volume,  the settings are not saving and i have to do it every time i use Tidal. Not a big deal but trying to figure out if its a DAC issue or a Tidal issue.


----------



## rkw

Maelob said:


> Question for Tidal users, I just connected my BF2 for the first time on my MAC.  just noticed after initially setting the BF2 in tidal to Exclusive mode and force volume,  the settings are not saving and i have to do it every time i use Tidal. Not a big deal but trying to figure out if its a DAC issue or a Tidal issue.


It's a Tidal issue that is being discussed on the Tidal thread and elsewhere on the web.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tidal-lossless-streaming.733233/post-16454587


----------



## Maelob

rkw said:


> It's a Tidal issue that is being discussed on the Tidal thread and elsewhere on the web.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tidal-lossless-streaming.733233/post-16454587


Thanks


----------



## Neweymatt

rkw said:


> It's a Tidal issue that is being discussed on the Tidal thread and elsewhere on the web.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tidal-lossless-streaming.733233/post-16454587


Hunh.  I never have this problem, Tidal app on my Mac always stays in Exclusive mode unless I switch it.

My problem is that I forget to switch it to "System Controlled" when I join a Zoom meeting, and all I can hear is my music LOL.


----------



## Flashbolt

Gorillaphant said:


> Thanks! This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for - it looks like the Jot 2 feet are the same as the BF2 feet and the eyeglass screwdriver did the trick.


Thank you both for posting this.  I know what I'm doing tomorrow!


----------



## Gorillaphant

Flashbolt said:


> Thank you both for posting this.  I know what I'm doing tomorrow!


For what it's worth, adding new feet didn't really do much to change the temps as far as I can tell, but the setup does look a little nicer now haha.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Maelob said:


> Question for Tidal users, I just connected my BF2 for the first time on my MAC.  just noticed after initially setting the BF2 in tidal to Exclusive mode and force volume,  the settings are not saving and i have to do it every time i use Tidal. Not a big deal but trying to figure out if its a DAC issue or a Tidal issue.


Happened with the BF2 when I had it and it also happens with my Gumby gen5/A2 as well. I'm thinking Tidal issue.


----------



## basstrombone80

Does anyone know where I can find an exact replacement RCA jack for my Bifrost 2?  Not having any luck getting a response from the guys at Schiit or in my google searches.  The tab inside of the RCA jack has jammed somehow and won't depress when I insert the cable. Tried bending it back to normal, but no luck.  Any help is appreciated!


----------



## jnak00

basstrombone80 said:


> Does anyone know where I can find an exact replacement RCA jack for my Bifrost 2?  Not having any luck getting a response from the guys at Schiit or in my google searches.  The tab inside of the RCA jack has jammed somehow and won't depress when I insert the cable. Tried bending it back to normal, but no luck.  Any help is appreciated!


Bifrost 2 has a 5 year warranty. I would go that route rather than self repair.


----------



## basstrombone80

jnak00 said:


> Bifrost 2 has a 5 year warranty. I would go that route rather than self repair.


That is probably smartest.  I bought it secondhand here on Head-Fi, so I'll see if a warranty is valid for me.


----------



## Voxata

basstrombone80 said:


> That is probably smartest.  I bought it secondhand here on Head-Fi, so I'll see if a warranty is valid for me.


It isn't but contact Schiit and they'll likely take care of you. The customer service is amazing.


----------



## basstrombone80

Voxata said:


> It isn't but contact Schiit and they'll likely take care of you. The customer service is amazing.


That is good to know, thank you!


----------



## Ripper2860

They will charge a very reasonable bench fee to handle it out of warranty due to not being the original buyer.


----------



## nasty nate

Anyone here add the Lokius into their BF2 stack yet? If so - where did you place it and did you notice any hum? 🤔


----------



## Ripper2860

A user here (@prof.utonium , I believe) has Lokius stacked atop of BF2 and a JOT2 atop of the Lokius and he reports no audible hum.  Looks promising.  Perhaps the warning was geared more towards other (non-Schiit) gear that is not as well engineered and shielded.


----------



## nasty nate

Ripper2860 said:


> A user here (@prof.utonium , I believe) has Lokius stacked atop of BF2 and a JOT2 atop of the Lokius and he reports no audible hum.  Looks promising.  Perhaps the warning was geared more towards other (non-Schiit) gear that is not as well engineered and shielded.



I did see that! Trying to cast a wide net - although I agree, it does look promising. Thank you


----------



## ctrlm (Jul 23, 2021)

I ordered my black BF2 direct from Schiit on May 23 and it was delivered to me in OZ on July 15 via Fedex, so about 7 weeks from door to door.

I have it hooked up to my Violectric HPA V281 via XLR and my Qutest is also hooked up via RCA. These two DACs really do compliment each other through the Violectric and I'm getting the hang of which one I prefer with which genre, mastering, particular album or headphone.

I'm having fun and it's hard to tear myself away right now


----------



## Lvivske

omg thats about 6-8 weeks  they werent kidding


----------



## omniweltall

Ripper2860 said:


> A user here (@prof.utonium , I believe) has Lokius stacked atop of BF2 and a JOT2 atop of the Lokius and he reports no audible hum.  Looks promising.  Perhaps the warning was geared more towards other (non-Schiit) gear that is not as well engineered and shielded.


Schiit mentioned specifically gears that have internal transformer lile Asgard or Jot 2.


----------



## Ripper2860

Oh, yeah.  Forgot that.  It seems that it is more of a MIGHT as opposed to WILL, then.


----------



## prof.utonium (Aug 4, 2021)

nasty nate said:


> Anyone here add the Lokius into their BF2 stack yet? If so - where did you place it and did you notice any hum? 🤔


I have my Lokius sandwiched between my BF2 (bottom) and Jot2 (top) with no problems.

Update: I recently modified my Schiit stack. If I listen 4 or more hours the Schiit stack was getting bloody hot so I added ½” rubber feet between each piece of Schiit and temps came way down. Oddly enough the biggest heat contributor is the Lokius.


----------



## omniweltall

My Lokius is also on the way, and I have been wondering the same thing. Where do I stack this thing with Bifrost 2 and Jot 2. Or do I stack it at all? 

Thanks for sharing, all. I will try Lokius in between the Bifrost 2 and Jot 2.


----------



## Lvivske

still curious how much interference the lokius will drive into my valhalla...only one way to find out


----------



## Arcayne

nasty nate said:


> Anyone here add the Lokius into their BF2 stack yet? If so - where did you place it and did you notice any hum? 🤔


No audible hum here whatsoever.


----------



## omniweltall

Arcayne said:


> No audible hum here whatsoever.


That is beautiful. Just love how it looks. I can imagine how many people have the exact same stacks haha.


----------



## Mozbach (Jul 24, 2021)

Hi,

Not sure if this questions already been answered - im getting a great deal on a Bifrost MB (v1) whereas the v2 will cost more by 2x!

Looking to upgrade from a Modi MB (v2) for an entirely single ended stereo set up (no balanced equip).  Wondering what more/better can be had from Bifrost 2 in comparison to Bifrost MB (v1), esp. in stereo setup, all things remaining same. Also how true is the view that BF2 is close to Gungnir?

Whoever's heard both, happy to take your thoughts!


----------



## tjdub

Arcayne said:


> No audible hum here whatsoever.


That is a great looking stack, how do you like the lokius?


----------



## omniweltall (Jul 25, 2021)

Mozbach said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure if this questions already been answered - im getting a great deal on a Bifrost MB (v1) whereas the v2 will cost more by 2x!
> 
> ...


I tried these DACs at different times, so take this with a grain of salt.

I agree that Bifrost 2 is more comparable (and slightly better) to Gumby A1, with more clarity, less warmth, and more heft imo. Slight difference. But Bifrost 2 is quite an improvement from Bifrost 1, sounding altogether like two different levels of DACs.

In terms of tonality, Bifrost 2 still sound very much like the original Bifrost. When you listen only briefly, they sound similar. But two areas stand out the most to my ears: bass quality and overall dynamics. The bass is more detailed and cohesive. I can hear details and textures easier. Secondly, Bifrost 2 is also more dynamic and livelier sounding the the original. There are other improvements as well, but not as stark as these two. Overall, it is simply a better (and more musical) DAC.

Bifrost 1 is closer to Mimby level. So I don't see really much upgrade from there. Might as well keep the Mimby till you get the Bifrost 2. But if you're only using SE out with Bifrost 2, you're leaving a little bit on the table. Not huge, but it's there nevetheless.


----------



## Arcayne

tjdub said:


> That is a great looking stack, how do you like the lokius?


I like it a lot! Having it in the chain doesn't seem to introduce any kind of compression as far as I can tell, and it's fun fiddling around with it on the fly.


----------



## tjdub

Thanks, I can't wait to get mine


----------



## nasty nate

Looks like Lokius is going between my Lyr and Bifrost  can't wait for it to arrive - thank you Arcayne and prof🙏


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 26, 2021)

WAYYYYYY AHEAD OF SCHEDULE (Lokius too). 






July 15 order, so 1.5 weeks instead of 8....


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 27, 2021)

aaaand now I get to sit around and try and decipher what sounds different  

bass is definitely more resolved vs. the E30, at least that stood out versus what I was used to, and this was going from my mega-bass Pioneer combo I set up last night (thats still king of oomf though)


----------



## Lvivske

Anyone have a clue why volume keeps artificially going to zero with the bifrost on mac? it doesnt matter much practically, volume is always 100% unless i actually mute it, just.....pissing me off


----------



## ctrlm

Lvivske said:


> Anyone have a clue why volume keeps artificially going to zero with the bifrost on mac? it doesnt matter much practically, volume is always 100% unless i actually mute it, just.....pissing me off


Yeah, it happens to me every now and then as well, I go to play something after a break and there is no sound. When it first happened I thought the DAC had Schiited itself but discovered that it was on mute. I use Audivarna with sysopt so I have to go into audio Midi settings and unmute it each time.

It only happens with this particular DAC in my setup......somewhat annoying.


----------



## Lvivske

ctrlm said:


> Yeah, it happens to me every now and then as well, I go to play something after a break and there is no sound. When it first happened I thought the DAC had Schiited itself but discovered that it was on mute. I use Audivarna with sysopt so I have to go into audio Midi settings and unmute it each time.
> 
> It only happens with this particular DAC in my setup......somewhat annoying.


oh sorry i guess just to clarify, its not muted, there IS volume, its just.....displays as 0 but I'm assuming is full volume out regardless? basically the ability to control volume is gone, its either 100 or 0, and the slider always says 0/mute

meanwhile, MIDI shows it has to be on mute for it to play audio (and theres no ability to control master level, so im assuming its just 1/1 value)

its like the bifrost is backwards


----------



## Neweymatt

Lvivske said:


> oh sorry i guess just to clarify, its not muted, there IS volume, its just.....displays as 0 but I'm assuming is full volume out regardless? basically the ability to control volume is gone, its either 100 or 0, and the slider always says 0/mute


Tidal has always been like this for me when set to Exclusive Mode for the Bifrost.

I just use the amp to control volume.


----------



## Alcophone

Lvivske said:


> oh sorry i guess just to clarify, its not muted, there IS volume, its just.....displays as 0 but I'm assuming is full volume out regardless? basically the ability to control volume is gone, its either 100 or 0, and the slider always says 0/mute
> 
> meanwhile, MIDI shows it has to be on mute for it to play audio (and theres no ability to control master level, so im assuming its just 1/1 value)
> 
> its like the bifrost is backwards


Actually, I had that, too, a few times, muting was suddenly reversed. I think that was under Windows even, not sure. Haven't used the Bifrost 2 in that setup in a while. I think unplugging it and plugging it back in or turning it off and on again helped, but it's been a while. You're not the only one, though.


----------



## OldBeep

My new Bifrost 2 should be here in a couple of days.  I've been using a Dell Laptop with an I5 and a USB into a Bifrost Uber into a Liquid Platinum amp with a Corpse Grave Digger balanced cable and  Ananda's.  I recently started a 90 day free trial to Quboz and am wondering, do I need to change any settings on my Dell Laptop I am streaming from into the Bifrost to get the high res sound?


----------



## Lvivske

OldBeep said:


> My new Bifrost 2 should be here in a couple of days.  I've been using a Dell Laptop with an I5 and a USB into a Bifrost Uber into a Liquid Platinum amp with a Corpse Grave Digger balanced cable and  Ananda's.  I recently started a 90 day free trial to Quboz and am wondering, do I need to change any settings on my Dell Laptop I am streaming from into the Bifrost to get the high res sound?



if its not already, make adjust audio device bitrate in windows settings


----------



## reuben3

ctrlm said:


> I ordered my black BF2 direct from Schiit on May 23 and it was delivered to me in OZ on July 15 via Fedex, so about 7 weeks from door to door.
> 
> I have it hooked up to my Violectric HPA V281 via XLR and my Qutest is also hooked up via RCA. These two DACs really do compliment each other through the Violectric and I'm getting the hang of which one I prefer with which genre, mastering, particular album or headphone.
> 
> I'm having fun and it's hard to tear myself away right now


Interesting, is there really that much of a difference? Do you mind sharing a bit more of your experience between your 2 combos?


----------



## ctrlm

reuben3 said:


> Interesting, is there really that much of a difference? Do you mind sharing a bit more of your experience between your 2 combos?


Sure, I'll try not to ramble.

The biggest difference to me is the bass as this is something I tend to focus on, unlike my youngest son who tends to focus on voices when comparing presentations. 

The Qutest separates the mid-bass better so there is a clearer definition between instruments such as bass guitar and kick drum etc. compared to my other DACs such as the RME ADI-2 & Topping D70 that are both AKM DACs and have that touch of bloom in the mid-bass area that tends to give a warmer sort of mid-bass presentation. Some people would describe the Qutest as sounding leaner, so it depends on your preferences but I think it is a good match with the V281 which gravitates to the warmer side of neutral. The issue with the Qutest then is a lack of sub-bass rumble compared to those other DACs, so there is no free lunch.

To my ears the BF2 sits between these and I wouldn't call it warm by any means but it is not as revealing in that mid-bass region as the Qutest and doesn't have the same level of bloom as the RME & D70, I was quite surprised at how neutral it was for a multibit DAC. I tend to prefer the BF2 with material with decent sub-bass or poor mastering that that tends to be on the thinner side. There are other slight presentation differences in the rest of the frequency range but I would suck at trying to describe them.

Now to put these differences into context....I'd still be happy if one or the other was taken away, I'd just enjoy whichever one was left. So I do hear differences but there is no "better" here, just different. I'm considering keeping the Qutest in my headphone setup and putting the BF2 in my speaker setup.


----------



## cgb3

omniweltall said:


> My Lokius is also on the way, and I have been wondering the same thing. Where do I stack this thing with Bifrost 2 and Jot 2. Or do I stack it at all?
> 
> Thanks for sharing, all. I will try Lokius in between the Bifrost 2 and Jot 2.


I'm curious. Have you ever tried Peace EQ? Assuming you use the Windows OS -https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/?source=directory

Obvisously, if one prefers "mechanical" EQ over software EQ, bully for Lokius. My question, were you aware there was good software EQ?


----------



## Lvivske

fwiw I find analog EQ sounds better, significantly so


----------



## RickB

Lvivske said:


> fwiw I find analog EQ sounds better, significantly so


I haven't tried analog EQ in decades, but software-based EQ always sounds "off" to me. IDK, maybe it's nocebo.


----------



## jdaeira

Just received my Bifrost 2 on Wednesday. Upgrading from the Modius I didn't notice much difference at first. Fast forward 2 days now and the Bifrost 2 has really kicked in. Everything is just so much more spacious, clear and detailed. Loving the Bifrost 2 with my Jotunheim 2 and ZMF Aeolus. I'm done for a while


----------



## Lvivske

jdaeira said:


> Just received my Bifrost 2 on Wednesday. Upgrading from the Modius I didn't notice much difference at first. Fast forward 2 days now and the Bifrost 2 has really kicked in. Everything is just so much more spacious, clear and detailed. Loving the Bifrost 2 with my Jotunheim 2 and ZMF Aeolus. I'm done for a while



why did your opinion change after 2 days?


----------



## jdaeira

Lvivske said:


> why did your opinion change after 2 days?


Leaving it on constantly for about 48 hours changed the sound. Burn in.


----------



## Lvivske

jdaeira said:


> Leaving it on constantly for about 48 hours changed the sound. Burn in.



Ive read so much lately about burn in being fake I dont know what to believe anymore

I did read someone on a discord the other day swearing by unit temperature helping it a lot though, fwiw

I think mine is around the 48 hour mark now, but burning in some tubes at the same time so not sure which is doing what at this point lol


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Lvivske said:


> fwiw I find analog EQ sounds better, significantly so


💯 percent correct! While software is certainly convenient, analog is better. Speaking solely from the experience end of being born into Analog, growing into digital, and reverting back to analog in my old age! 😂😂😂


----------



## Rattle

Multi bit dacs take a bit to warm up and settle. The schiit dacs have lots of users reporting this. I find BF2 I only need about 4 hours maybe ? Also it's hard to tell the difference immediately swapping dacs, you have to live with it a while until the differences are more easily heard/noticed


----------



## omniweltall

cgb3 said:


> I'm curious. Have you ever tried Peace EQ? Assuming you use the Windows OS -https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/?source=directory
> 
> Obvisously, if one prefers "mechanical" EQ over software EQ, bully for Lokius. My question, were you aware there was good software EQ?


Yes. I used it years ago actually. I prefer analog EQ.


----------



## ttocs

I just received my BF2 and I have to say that the difference I hear is far more than expected.  Going from an SMSL M300 to the Bifrost I expected to have to really try to hear a change and that most of it would be subtle with an A-B test being necessary to produce results.
I'm pleasantly surprised that's not the case.


----------



## Neweymatt

Lvivske said:


> Ive read so much lately about burn in being fake I dont know what to believe anymore
> 
> I did read someone on a discord the other day swearing by unit temperature helping it a lot though, fwiw
> 
> I think mine is around the 48 hour mark now, but burning in some tubes at the same time so not sure which is doing what at this point lol


Yeah, I was a burn-in sceptic as well, but with BF2 it is defo a real thing.  I can still notice it in the first 10-15 minutes after turning it on from cold, it has an off-putting glassy edge to it that makes me cringe, but always goes away so I just leave it on 24x7.


----------



## Neweymatt

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> 💯 percent correct! While software is certainly convenient, analog is better. Speaking solely from the experience end of being born into Analog, growing into digital, and reverting back to analog in my old age! 😂😂😂


Hmmmmm, so this is not the lokius thread or anything, but I'd appreciate if you could dig a little deeper into what the real differences are between software and analog EQ??  I've been pretty happy with SoundSource on my Mac so far as it gives me very precise control. But if I can do better, maybe there's a decision point to be made...


----------



## theveterans

Neweymatt said:


> Hmmmmm, so this is not the lokius thread or anything, but I'd appreciate if you could dig a little deeper into what the real differences are between software and analog EQ??  I've been pretty happy with SoundSource on my Mac so far as it gives me very precise control. But if I can do better, maybe there's a decision point to be made...



Digital EQ can mess with timing information and other digital distortion (non-linear) which can result to less optimal SQ while analog EQ are dependent on how good its implementation. The digital signal is converted to analog without being altered prior to Schiit's burrito filter hence the generally superior SQ with setups that have analog EQ as preamp


----------



## Lvivske

Neweymatt said:


> Hmmmmm, so this is not the lokius thread or anything, but I'd appreciate if you could dig a little deeper into what the real differences are between software and analog EQ??  I've been pretty happy with SoundSource on my Mac so far as it gives me very precise control. But if I can do better, maybe there's a decision point to be made...





Mr BubbaHyde said:


> 💯 percent correct! While software is certainly convenient, analog is better. Speaking solely from the experience end of being born into Analog, growing into digital, and reverting back to analog in my old age! 😂😂😂



Personally if I could make things sound how I want with software, I absolutely would - more precise control of bands, no dealing with interference noise, and save myself hundreds of dollars 

In my experience I tried this. I really did. I sat around and fiddled with knobs on my Loki+ until it got where I was happy, then bypassed it and tried to fiddle with EQ sliders until I was happy. Hours later, A/B tested and there was no comparison, my "best results" on software (that I thought sounded good for hours) sounded awful and hollow compared to the Loki. I tried to re-create the settings on the Loki but with different Q-factors it would never be identical so settled for doing what sounded best to my ears. (eqMac on MacOS allows control of q-factor and every band you can think of, but its a monthly subscription so hard pass for me)

I still use software to fine tune things +/- 2db to hammer down some nails in the curve, for this I think software is great. Is it lacking for broader sweeps because of compression / distortion of the digital audio? I dunno

I had a similar situation with my secondary setup now that the Lokius is on my desk (2nd rig in my sig). Loki+ fixed the treble problems the amp and headphones gave me and my original intent was to finally be able to turn the tone controls on my amp off (capacitors might be failing, noticing bad sounds at low volumes, and on their own those 2 knobs dont do enough). While I was happy with the result I thought hey, lets flip the bass switch....*holy hell.* The knob says 400HZ but pushing that up a notch or two adds tremendous, dynamic bass; drums and bass guitar sound incredibly lifelike now. What happens if I push up 400hz on my software? Hollow, tin sounding ass. On the Lokiis? It helps the sound of mids but not the bass. I can crank all the bass knobs I want on the Loki and software to 11 and not get this effect.

So I have no idea why things sound better. Analog capacitors improving non-brick-walled sound sources with old school magic to give them better dynamic range? All I know is it sounds better and if I could replicate it with an app I would, but so far, can't.


----------



## arar

Dang, Lokius sounds pretty neat for sure. I was initially thinking I'd never ditch my iFi Black Label since the XBass toggle is just too juicy, but now I'm wondering if Bifrost-Lokius-Jotenheim really would be the perfect affordable end-game solid state stack. No idea if the Lokius can truly replicate the XBass effect, but I'm sure it'll get close enough, plus having the rest of the knobs would be awesome too.

I need to start saving up some money.


----------



## Lvivske

Question about bitrate, but does everyone here just set their audio to 192k with the Bifrost, or is there anything else to consider? Read a thread on another forum about certain DACs having better filters for lower rates

or do you guys just shoot for bit perfect and lock out at 44.1?


----------



## Rattle

With wasapi there's no need if there is a "direct connection" to the dac. Whatever source material I play it auto switches. If I play a 16/44 file then a 24/96 it auto switches and can hear the dac "clicking" over.


----------



## Lvivske

Rattle said:


> With wasapi there's no need if there is a "direct connection" to the dac. Whatever source material I play it auto switches. If I play a 16/44 file then a 24/96 it auto switches and can hear the dac "clicking" over.



I use Apple Music so I'm bound to whatever the system output is, no isolated mode or whatever, so have to pick a one size fits all


----------



## Rattle

Yeah well I would probably set it to whatever source material is manually. I guess you could try upsampling... The BF2 basically does that anyway with red book quality material. I use Jriver and my own lossless file rips.


----------



## SnowRang3r (Jul 31, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> I use Apple Music so I'm bound to whatever the system output is, no isolated mode or whatever, so have to pick a one size fits all


On MacOS this is true. But on iOS or iPadOS it automatically switches. The new iPad Air (or any iPad Pro) with USB-C is a great way to get Apple Music directly to a DAC bit perfect.

Can use an iPhone too but then you need the Camera connector kit… wish everything was just USB-C.


----------



## Rattle

Bit perfect is always the way to go IMO. If it can be done. I don't use apple or stream so I don't know lol


----------



## Smoothstereo

Lvivske said:


> Question about bitrate, but does everyone here just set their audio to 192k with the Bifrost, or is there anything else to consider? Read a thread on another forum about certain DACs having better filters for lower rates
> 
> or do you guys just shoot for bit perfect and lock out at 44.1?


I use Android phone for source via usb to BF2 and I use USB Audio Player Pro app to play my cd ripped 44.1khz 16 bit wav files. I let BF2 upsample music to 8x rate with good results. Less fuss for me since all my music files are the same format and quality.


----------



## Lvivske

Smoothstereo said:


> I use Android phone for source via usb to BF2 and I use USB Audio Player Pro app to play my cd ripped 44.1khz 16 bit wav files. I let BF2 upsample music to 8x rate with good results. Less fuss for me since all my music files are the same format and quality.



how do you mean, BF2 upsampling 8x? BF does 24/192 max


----------



## Smoothstereo

Lvivske said:


> how do you mean, BF2 upsampling 8x? BF does 24/192 max


If you feed a 44.1khz music file to BF2, the dac will inherently upsample/oversample it 8 times, in this case 352.8khz. This is what I gathered from the forums.


----------



## Lvivske

Smoothstereo said:


> If you feed a 44.1khz music file to BF2, the dac will inherently upsample/oversample it 8 times, in this case 352.8khz. This is what I gathered from the forums.



This actually is good info for my question, started searching and read:

> _Bifrost Multibit features an NOS (non-oversampling) mode for inputs with sample rates of 176.4kHz and 192kHz, where there is no digital filter applied._

So in my position where I have to set system audio, 176/192 would give me NOS on the DAC, and other options below would have the DAC upsampling the remainder (through a filter)?

I could have sworn 96 sounded better than 176/192 to me earlier, which I found very weird because if it was placebo I figure my brain would convince myself that the higher number is better and I'm awesome and can hear the better, higher number; but I couldn't figure out why the less sexy number that was messing with my OCD was telling me to stick with it lol. _Maybe it was the internal filter & hardware upsampling._


----------



## SnowRang3r

Lvivske said:


> This actually is good info for my question, started searching and read:
> 
> > _Bifrost Multibit features an NOS (non-oversampling) mode for inputs with sample rates of 176.4kHz and 192kHz, where there is no digital filter applied._
> 
> ...


That’s just for Bifrost Multibit.

Bifrost 2 does 8x oversampling (aka 352.8 or 384khz). So since it only takes 176.4 or 192 in everything in is oversampled.


----------



## RickB

SnowRang3r said:


> That’s just for Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> Bifrost 2 does 8x oversampling (aka 352.8 or 384khz). So since it only takes 176.4 or 192 in everything in is oversampled.



This is why the rBrain filter in Audirvāna Studio does not sound good (to me) with the BF2.


----------



## Lvivske

SnowRang3r said:


> That’s just for Bifrost Multibit.
> 
> Bifrost 2 does 8x oversampling (aka 352.8 or 384khz). So since it only takes 176.4 or 192 in everything in is oversampled.



right, so anything below 192 is oversampled to some stupid high number through their hardware / filter?


----------



## Alcophone (Jul 31, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> right, so anything below 192 is oversampled to some stupid high number through their hardware / filter?


No, anything, including 192.

Edit: for Bifrost 2, everything is upsampled to 352.8 (from 44.1/88.2/176.4) or 384 kHz (from 48/96/192).
For Bifrost Multibit, everything below 176.4 kHz is upsampled to 176.4 (from 44.1/88.2) or 192 kHz (from 48/96).


----------



## Lvivske

Alcophone said:


> No, anything, including 192.



then what was meant by "it only takes 176.4 or 192 in"


----------



## Alcophone (Aug 1, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> then what was meant by "it only takes 176.4 or 192 in"


That the input sample rate is limited to 192 kHz and lower, even though internally it supports twice that.
The same is true for Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil. Kind of funny that the Yggdrasil has an unused 8x LED that would be quite useful if it suddenly supported 352.8 / 384 kHz input signals.


----------



## Neweymatt

theveterans said:


> Digital EQ can mess with timing information and other digital distortion (non-linear) which can result to less optimal SQ while analog EQ are dependent on how good its implementation. The digital signal is converted to analog without being altered prior to Schiit's burrito filter hence the generally superior SQ with setups that have analog EQ as preamp





Lvivske said:


> Personally if I could make things sound how I want with software, I absolutely would - more precise control of bands, no dealing with interference noise, and save myself hundreds of dollars
> 
> In my experience I tried this. I really did. I sat around and fiddled with knobs on my Loki+ until it got where I was happy, then bypassed it and tried to fiddle with EQ sliders until I was happy. Hours later, A/B tested and there was no comparison, my "best results" on software (that I thought sounded good for hours) sounded awful and hollow compared to the Loki. I tried to re-create the settings on the Loki but with different Q-factors it would never be identical so settled for doing what sounded best to my ears. (eqMac on MacOS allows control of q-factor and every band you can think of, but its a monthly subscription so hard pass for me)


Thanks to you both for commenting on AnalogEQ vs software, this has led to an afternoon of playing around with both my Mac and iPhone as sources to the BF2, and trying to A/B the Mac with and without SoundSource EQ app running.  In every case, I'm using Tidal in exclusive mode (and really enjoying Primal Scream's _Vanishing Point_)

End of the day, I can't hear any difference with or without SoundSource in the chain on the Mac, except of course if SoundSource has any EQ's enabled, in which case I get whatever 'colour' I'm after.  I didn't actually purchase SoundSource for EQ, rather I find it really useful as a switch for multiple audio inputs into whatever outputs I like.  I'm working at home a lot these days, and likely for as long as I can foresee, so being able to have find control of source audio from Tidal, Apple Music, bandcamp, browsers, or whatever along with Zoom, Teams, Meet etc is very very handy.  Anything I want to hear in my IEMs/HP, I just set the output to Bifrost2 Unison USB and all is Good in the World.

Maybe I need to get a hardware analog EQ like a lokius at some stage to really test it out, but for now I'm not sure I need to spend those $$ there...


----------



## duranxv

Neweymatt said:


> Thanks to you both for commenting on AnalogEQ vs software, this has led to an afternoon of playing around with both my Mac and iPhone as sources to the BF2, and trying to A/B the Mac with and without SoundSource EQ app running.  In every case, I'm using Tidal in exclusive mode (and really enjoying Primal Scream's _Vanishing Point_)
> 
> End of the day, I can't hear any difference with or without SoundSource in the chain on the Mac, except of course if SoundSource has any EQ's enabled, in which case I get whatever 'colour' I'm after.  I didn't actually purchase SoundSource for EQ, rather I find it really useful as a switch for multiple audio inputs into whatever outputs I like.  I'm working at home a lot these days, and likely for as long as I can foresee, so being able to have find control of source audio from Tidal, Apple Music, bandcamp, browsers, or whatever along with Zoom, Teams, Meet etc is very very handy.  Anything I want to hear in my IEMs/HP, I just set the output to Bifrost2 Unison USB and all is Good in the World.
> 
> Maybe I need to get a hardware analog EQ like a lokius at some stage to really test it out, but for now I'm not sure I need to spend those $$ there...



Funny enough, I actually read the opposite when it comes to analog EQ and software EQ - that software is actually better since you can be much more precise in your frequency tweaks than analog.


----------



## omniweltall

duranxv said:


> Funny enough, I actually read the opposite when it comes to analog EQ and software EQ - that software is actually better since you can be much more precise in your frequency tweaks than analog.


Pros and cons.


----------



## Lvivske

yeah thats why I said I like using software for precise, lower db tweaks. It's better as a scalpel.

Bifrost question though: On the GoldenSound review on youtube, the dude says that the balanced outputs sound better than single ended - true or BS?


----------



## Ripper2860

It tried connecting BF2 simultaneously via SE and BAL into my Rag v1 and by switching inputs between SE and BAL inputs could hear no difference.  But then again, my interconnects were pretty short (12" length) for both SE and BAL


----------



## Arcayne

Lvivske said:


> Bifrost question though: On the GoldenSound review on youtube, the dude says that the balanced outputs sound better than single ended - true or BS?


I think it depends on the amp used. Some amps perform better with a stronger input signal, in which case it'll sound better using XLR outs from the BF2. I personally don't find that there's much of a difference (if any at all) between the outputs, but for amps with both balanced and unbalanced inputs I'd always be using balanced anyways.


----------



## omniweltall (Aug 2, 2021)

The dynamics of SE out is slightly below the balanced out. Not a major difference, but it is there, to my ears.

Another point of interest, I also find the Bifrost 2 quite sensitive to source. Usually I don't find too much difference between USB cables with my previous DACs. But it does with the Bifrost 2. And the difference was quite perceivable. I didn't expect that.


----------



## Smoothstereo

To my ears after level matching and using the same brand/model interconnects, the Balance outputs sound a tad more separated, cleaner, and distinct than the SE outputs. Its easier to hear into the music and the suble details. Not night and day different, but noticeable. YMMV.


----------



## ttocs

I did my best to do an AB test of the single ended and balanced outputs this weekend and was unsuccessful in hearing any difference.  My test was not even close to scientific as the only way I could level match with my current gear is to set volume levels and switch manually back and forth with relatively large gaps in playback.  That said after playing six songs on both outputs I came away with the conclusion that any difference was not noticeable through my MHA200/LCD2F combo.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Smoothstereo said:


> To my ears after level matching and using the same brand/model interconnects, the Balance outputs sound a tad more separated, cleaner, and distinct than the SE outputs. Its easier to hear into the music and the suble details. Not night and day different, but noticeable. YMMV.


Absolutely agree with your findings


----------



## Alcophone

Smoothstereo said:


> To my ears after level matching and using the same brand/model interconnects, the Balance outputs sound a tad more separated, cleaner, and distinct than the SE outputs. Its easier to hear into the music and the suble details. Not night and day different, but noticeable. YMMV.


Into what device? If it's an internally balanced device, then maybe Schiit's "cheap ass balanced" conversion is better than what the target device does for its single ended inputs.
If it's an internally single ended device and very short interconnects, I'd expect single ended to sound better since you're avoiding the needless conversion to balanced and back.
Or maybe it works out better in terms of impedance this way, who knows.


----------



## Rattle

I will try and see if there's a difference for me... I've been listening to my Jot 2 SE from BF2 since I went balanced to my LP last time I listened to it. 

The last 3 listening sessions were with JoT2 fed SE from Bifrost 2. I'll swap back and see if balanced makes an audible difference for me. Volume levels are the same on both amps with either connections anyway.


----------



## Lvivske

Everything in my chain is internally SE but if there's some truth to the BF2 Balanced out doing something better somehow, very tempted to order a pair for science


----------



## Rattle

It's good to have a pair of XLR cables around anyway and no need to spend a lot.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Alcophone said:


> Into what device? If it's an internally balanced device, then maybe Schiit's "cheap ass balanced" conversion is better than what the target device does for its single ended inputs.
> If it's an internally single ended device and very short interconnects, I'd expect single ended to sound better since you're avoiding the needless conversion to balanced and back.
> Or maybe it works out better in terms of impedance this way, who knows.


I feed both the BF2 outputs to a Jot2 and use the 4pin xlr headphone out to headphones, currently using Denon D5200 and  Hifiman Sundara.


----------



## Lvivske

Rattle said:


> It's good to have a pair of XLR cables around anyway and no need to spend a lot.



i can tie them into pigtails, for show


----------



## Alcophone

Smoothstereo said:


> I feed both the BF2 outputs to a Jot2 and use the 4pin xlr headphone out to headphones, currently using Denon D5200 and  Hifiman Sundara.


So the "cheap ass" balanced conversion in the Bifrost 2 does a better job than Nexus in the Jotunheim 2? Surprising. Thanks for your feedback!


----------



## omniweltall

The difference is very slight, to my ear. I don't think it's worth much investigating, to be honest. 

It is smaller than the difference between Jot 2 SE out vs Balanced out. 

Or Jot 2 Low Gain vs High Gain.


----------



## SolaVirtus

omniweltall said:


> The difference is very slight, to my ear. I don't think it's worth much investigating, to be honest.
> 
> It is smaller than the difference between Jot 2 SE out vs Balanced out.
> 
> Or Jot 2 Low Gain vs High Gain.


This was my experience too. I like being able to put a Loki in the SE path and not feel like I'm losing much, and still have the balanced path all the way through.


----------



## Smoothstereo

I agree that the difference between SE and BAL input to the Jot2 is not as huge as the difference between SE and BAL headphone output on the Jot2. But for folks who want to maximize the potential of the Jot2/BF2 combo, going Balance all the way has its place. I have both SE and XLR inputs being used and I choose my flavor based on mood and song selection. Can't go wrong with either to be honest.


----------



## Mozbach (Aug 3, 2021)

Deleted post... found an earlier post answering the query posted..
(Apologies)


----------



## Friskyseal

If the SE out gives more usable volume range, that to me seems to be a far greater benefit than the minute differences in sound quality, if there are indeed any.


----------



## buson160man

well just got my bifrost 2 delivered today. Hooked it up balanced to my Jottenheim 2 which is a couple of weeks old now. Things are sounding better than the internal multibit card dac in the Jottenheim 2. Not worldly better so far but got to get time on the bifrost 2 before I can make any sound observations on the differences. The bifrost 2 seems pretty solidly constructed. It does seem to be better at drawing out the details than the captive multibit dac in the jottenheim 2.


----------



## buson160man (Aug 4, 2021)

Well been burning in my new BF2 on my desk top all day since 8 am this morning with my three week old Jottenheim 2 . It is 11 and a half hours now . Wow so musical is the pairing it is mesmerizing. Very little if any digititis none that I can hear. And I am using akg 712 pro headphones which can sound kind of analytical(not as analytical as the akg 701s though) at times. They have never sounded this musical before. The tonality of this pairing is gorgeous. It is going to be interesting to see how much better the schiit stack gets . Time will tell do not know how much better it will get but it sounds promising already. I am going to listening to this pair for hours at a time when it fully fleshes in.


----------



## cgb3

Lvivske said:


> yeah thats why I said I like using software for precise, lower db tweaks. It's better as a scalpel.
> 
> Bifrost question though: On the GoldenSound review on youtube, the dude says that the balanced outputs sound better than single ended - true or BS?


I watched a recent GoldenSound video. The subject was the


buson160man said:


> Well been burning in my new BF2 on my desk top all day since 8 am this morning with my three week old Jottenheim 2 . It is 11 and a half hours now . Wow so musical is the pairing it is mesmerizing. Very little if any digititis none that I can hear. And I am using akg 712 pro headphones which can sound kind of analytical(not as analytical as the akg 701s though) at times. They have never sounded this musical before. The tonality of this pairing is gorgeous. It is going to be interesting to see how much better the schiit stack gets . Time will tell do not know how much better it will get but it sounds promising already. I am going to listening to this pair for hours at a time when it fully fleshes in.


For a truly epic experience, purchase a Schitt Lyr 3. Install a decent tube, and route the pre-amp of the Lyr 3 to the input of your jottenheim 2.


----------



## Alcophone

buson160man said:


> my three week old Jottenheim 2


----------



## Lvivske

cgb3 said:


> I watched a recent GoldenSound video. The subject was the


 The suspense is killing me


----------



## omniweltall

Lvivske said:


> The suspense is killing me


LoL.


----------



## buson160man (Aug 6, 2021)

cgb3 said:


> I watched a recent GoldenSound video. The subject was the
> 
> For a truly epic experience, purchase a Schitt Lyr 3. Install a decent tube, and route the pre-amp of the Lyr 3 to the input of your jottenheim 2.


you want to talk epic. When the Bifrost 2 is broken in I am going hook it up balanced to my Rogue RH-5 headphone amp preamp that should be really epic. The Rogue is a pretty awesome headphone amp. The rogue RH-5 is in a different universe.


----------



## Lvivske

Bought some XLRs and can now say on balanced:

1. Zero volume change between the outputs

2. I can't hear any difference. I toggle inputs and can basically flutter it back & forth with no distortion of a frequency. If there's a difference, it's specific and I haven't found an example track to pull it out yet.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 5, 2021)

Well, maybe you should clean your ears out.  It's obvious that the difference is SIGNIFICANT based on the THD+N numbers published by Schitt.  

*BF2 Balanced THD+N*
Ch1 0.002610 %
Ch2 0.002642 %

*BF2 Single-ended THD+N*
Ch1 0.002786 %
Ch2 0.002774 %

Balanced represents a clear and audible win (for bats)!!  

** Granted it is just one measurement from their extensive APx555 results


----------



## Lvivske

My ears are just too damaged to appreciate that 0.0001% and it frustrates me


----------



## darylobert (Aug 5, 2021)

I think my Bifrost2/LYR3 combo just blew up my Campfire Altas.  It powered off with a pop, and now the headphones will not make any sound.  So upset


----------



## Ripper2860

Sorry about that. I fully understand your frustration and anger.  Obviously something went wrong as Lyr 3 has a mute relay that is supposed to engage and disable output to the headphone jack at power-off in order to prevent this sort of thing from happening.  Perhaps engaging support at Schiit will get the ball rolling on repair and identifying what actually happened.  CA seems like a pretty good company and may very well repair your Atlas at N/C.


----------



## darylobert (Aug 5, 2021)

I am hoping so, and I just found the receipt, and they are still under warranty, so fingers crossed.  Power stip was turned off, so the pop could have been from the Bifrost. It was powered down at the same time.


----------



## EagleWings

Damn, another Lyr3 blowing up headphones incident. Contact Schiit immediately and let them know.


----------



## Smoothstereo

Lvivske said:


> Bought some XLRs and can now say on balanced:
> 
> 1. Zero volume change between the outputs
> 
> 2. I can't hear any difference. I toggle inputs and can basically flutter it back & forth with no distortion of a frequency. If there's a difference, it's specific and I haven't found an example track to pull it out yet.


Just curious what amp are you using? Are both the RCA and XLR cables the same brand and model? With Jot2, if I toggle to Balance inputs, its louder at the same volume dial position vs the RCA input switch. Once I volume matched the two inputs, I can hear sonic differences like I mentioned in my previous post. Not huge difference, but noticeable. But if you don't hear any differences, I wouldn't go crazy looking for it and save some money and return the XLR cables if possible. You can achieve sonic differences somewhere else in the set up.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 5, 2021)

EagleWings said:


> Damn, another Lyr3 blowing up headphones incident. Contact Schiit immediately and let them know.



As far as I know, the other incidents happened while Lyr 3 was in operation or powered on, not the result of a pop while 'powering off'.  I know because I was one of that had a Lyr 3 fail in dramatic fashion.  I happened to be there when it happened and immediately unplugged my HPs before the damage was done.  Smoke and very loud HUM and pops as the left channel servo and resistor went out.  As the OP stated, it could have been related to a signal coming in from Bifrost.  If the Lyr 3 did not let the magic smoke out and is still operational, I do not believe that it was the root cause.  The OP only states his HPs no longer worked. 

Not sure if this happened, but if the gear was switched off via a power-strip as opposed to the actual on/off switch, it may not allow the muting relay to engage or adequately engage in sufficient time,  but Schiit can provide more clarity on whether this could be a possible scenario.


----------



## darylobert

It was the power strip switch, so both the LYR3 and Bifrost came down and went back on simultaneously.  Not sure if the damage happened when going on or off.  I should also mention that the LYR3 always has a little pop when powering up about a few seconds after turning it on when the tube kicks in.


----------



## Rensek

Lvivske said:


> yeah thats why I said I like using software for precise, lower db tweaks. It's better as a scalpel.
> 
> Bifrost question though: On the GoldenSound review on youtube, the dude says that the balanced outputs sound better than single ended - true or BS?


I often think my  Ragnarok 2 sounds a tiny bit better with SE in from Bifrost 2 then via balanced. I always attribute the difference to my SE cables being silver coated copper and my balanced being straight copper. Better being highly subjective and meaning a tiny bit fuller with more body.


----------



## Neweymatt

cgb3 said:


> For a truly epic experience, purchase a Schitt Lyr 3. Install a decent tube, and route the pre-amp of the Lyr 3 to the input of your jottenheim 2.


Ok, so this has me intrigued, to the extent I’ve got a Vali2+ in my cart, yeah I’m a cheapskate, for now anyways..

Just to be clear, this config will provide tubey goodness from the preamp of the first amp as input to the second amp?
I'm assuming the first amp would have to be powered on to get a signal to the second, right? Might not always want to use the tube is what I'm thinking, would be a pain to switch cables out of the BF2…


----------



## ctrlm

It's been about 3 weeks with the BF2 now. 

I pitted it against my Qutest in my desktop headphone setup for a week or so but in the end I settled on the Qutest in that application as it just seems to pair so nicely with the Violectric amp.

It's now in my speaker setup where I'm really enjoying it feeding my Musical Fidelity M6 500i integrated. I suck at describing the way things sound but the layering and placement of instruments is really very good compared to what was there before.

The only con I have is that it hums, you can just hear it when nothing is playing & the room is dead quiet when standing right next to it. I have a DC blocker that I don't use so I tried putting that in the chain but no difference. Not a big deal as it's not an issue when in use, just mildly annoying as none of my other DACs do it.


----------



## tafens

Neweymatt said:


> Ok, so this has me intrigued, to the extent I’ve got a Vali2+ in my cart, yeah I’m a cheapskate, for now anyways..
> 
> Just to be clear, this config will provide tubey goodness from the preamp of the first amp as input to the second amp?
> I'm assuming the first amp would have to be powered on to get a signal to the second, right? Might not always want to use the tube is what I'm thinking, would be a pain to switch cables out of the BF2…


You could connect both a Jotunheim and a Lyr3 to the Bifrost2 at the same time: Bifrost2 (balanced out) to Jotunheim and Bifrost2 (SE out) to Lyr3. Both outputs are always active on the BF2. Then you can listen to either amp without having to switch any interconnect cables. Only downside being that Lyr3 only has SE out and obviously won’t connect to a balanced headphone cable..


----------



## Alcophone

tafens said:


> You could connect both a Jotunheim and a Lyr3 to the Bifrost2 at the same time: Bifrost2 (balanced out) to Jotunheim and Bifrost2 (SE out) to Lyr3. Both outputs are always active on the BF2. Then you can listen to either amp without having to switch any interconnect cables. Only downside being that Lyr3 only has SE out and obviously won’t connect to a balanced headphone cable..


With an adapter like this you can at least make it easy to switch between them while still using a balanced cable. You'll get the best each amp can to, provided the adapter is transparent (I have it, but did not use it much).


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 7, 2021)

Neweymatt said:


> Ok, so this has me intrigued, to the extent I’ve got a Vali2+ in my cart, yeah I’m a cheapskate, for now anyways..
> 
> Just to be clear, this config will provide tubey goodness from the preamp of the first amp as input to the second amp?
> I'm assuming the first amp would have to be powered on to get a signal to the second, right? Might not always want to use the tube is what I'm thinking, would be a pain to switch cables out of the BF2…


I find the Lyr 3 is a fantastic pre-amp to the the Jot 2, for my music.

Before I purchased my Jot 2, the Lyr 3 was my main amp. Purchased second hand (from another Head-Fi member), the Lyr3 came with the stock JJ 6SN7, and a NOS Sylvania 6SN7. I purchased a new manufacture Tung Sol 6SN7, that I perceived as superior to the JJ and Sylvania.

The rabbit beckoned, and I followed. 2 6F8G>6SN7 adapters from Poland (better plastic and wire than China, don't you know). 6 6F8G tubes, all supposedly NOS (one, an RCA VT99 I was assured was originally installed on the Enola Gay, just kidding). $450 worth of tubes later, I'm pretty pleased with my headphone rig.

Enter Jot 2. I purchased this on introduction, as I'd been curious about balanced, and I wanted a solid state amp for the summer. From the beginning, I liked the slam the Jot had over my Lyr 3 for classic rock, but I preferred the Lyr for Jazz, Blues, Female vocals. Somewhere, maybe here at head-fi, I read that someone was using the Lyr3 as a pre-amp.

I configured my Jot2 to take the pre-amp from the Lyr3, and started trying tubes (as a pre-amp). I found several of my more expensive 6F8G/VT99 tubes very nice, but the heat transfer isn't great in the summer. I tried the 6SN7 tubes. The Tung Sol was mediocre. The NOS Sylvania was a hit. The equal of several of my much more expensive 6F8G/VT99 valves.

I don't know if my explanation helps you in any way. Even if one uses the exact same equipment, and listens to the same music, we all have different ears, and different expectations.

I'm very pleased with the Jot2/Lyr3 combo. The best I've ever heard, to this point.

A strange observance. I've recently found Woo Audio adverts littered around my home.

Be careful. The rabbit is always there.


----------



## Neweymatt

cgb3 said:


> I find the Lyr 3 is a fantastic pre-amp to the the Jot 2, for my music.
> 
> Before I purchased my Jot 2, the Lyr 3 was my main amp. Purchased second hand (from another Head-Fi member), the Lyr3 came with the stock JJ 6SN7, and a NOS Sylvania 6SN7. I purchased a new manufacture Tung Sol 6SN7, that I perceived as superior to the JJ and Sylvania.
> 
> ...


Mate, thanks much for this.  

I've resisted tubes for a while, as I can tell from the various tube-rolling threads they are highly engaging/addictive.

Vali2+ it is then for now, you know, just for a taste, I'm sure it will stop there..


----------



## UntilThen

Neweymatt said:


> I've resisted tubes for a while, as I can tell from the various tube-rolling threads they are highly engaging/addictive.


It’s never addictive. To roll or not to roll, that is the question.


----------



## shafat777

Hey fellas,

I need some suggestion regarding my next dac purchase. Im in the market for a non delta sigma high end dac. Just you give you guys a little bit of context, i m gonna briefly explain my situation. I basically have two setups. On one side, I have my Pontus 2 feed by a Hermes DDC, and the pontus 2 supplying my Feliks OTL amp. I consider this setup complete as I see no reason to change anything in the chain. I use this setup for my ZMF cans exclusively. 

Now my other chain is my Bifrost 2 supplying the GSX mini via XLR and the Liquid Platinum via SE. I am satisfied with the performance of the BF2 but i feel like there's room for improvement. I think my pontus 2 provides more fuller sound, but unfortunately it can only run one set of output at a time. Other wise i would use that to supply both my mini and the Elise. Now i am itching for a new dac that can simultaneously power both xlr and SE. 

I am torn between the Gungnir and Yggdrasil. I am also looking at Audio GD R8 MK2 but i have no idea about Audio GD products. Ive looked into Holo Audio products but they are a little bit out of my price range. 

Any help would be appreciated. 

Thank you


----------



## UntilThen

Go Yggdrasil and never look back.


----------



## theveterans

shafat777 said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I need some suggestion regarding my next dac purchase. Im in the market for a non delta sigma high end dac. Just you give you guys a little bit of context, i m gonna briefly explain my situation. I basically have two setups. On one side, I have my Pontus 2 feed by a Hermes DDC, and the pontus 2 supplying my Feliks OTL amp. I consider this setup complete as I see no reason to change anything in the chain. I use this setup for my ZMF cans exclusively.
> 
> ...



IMO, the GSX mini with BF2 is pretty warm combo which probably what makes you think that it's not as open/full sounding. A GMB A2 would suit the mini better or upgrade the mini to the GSX MK2 which is more neutral / open in the mids and treble than the GSX mini. IMO, BF2 with GSX MK2 should fill that improvement


----------



## shafat777 (Aug 8, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> Go Yggdrasil and never look back.


You sir, are a terrible influence.

With that being said, Would you care to share your thoughts between the Gumby and the Yggy, if you have experience with both? How does the Yggy differ from the BF2?


----------



## UntilThen

shafat777 said:


> You sir, are a terrible influence.
> 
> With that being said, Would you care to share your thoughts between the Gumby and the Yggy, if you have experience with both? How does the Yggy differ from the BF2?



In 2017, I set out to buy the Gumby but they didn't have it at the shop. So I audition Yggdrasil, Ragnarok and HD800. I bought all 3 that day and return 2 weeks later to buy the LCD-2f. I never did get a chance to hear Gumby but I don't think I need to. I also didn't have a chance to hear Yggdrasil upgrade and I didn't need to as I like how it sound ... as it is. In my world of tube amps, a more neutral sounding dac such as the Yggdrasil v1 makes sense.

In a nutshell, BF2 is warmer, more closed in soundstage compared to Yggdrasil v1. I use both accordingly but I use Yggdrasil mostly. I like Bf2 for it's slight warmth and relaxing manner in portraying music. I love Yggdrasil for the details and clarity and yet it's not tiring to listen to.

I've heard my friend's Terminator but I felt Yggdrasil held it's own and I never felt the need to change the dac in the 4 years plus since I've it. It's almost as good as the Rega Rp8 with Apheta mc cartridge and that's high praise from me.


----------



## theveterans

Yggdrasil A2 is closer to BF2’s signature than A1 whereas GMB A2 is closer to Yggdrasil A1’s tonality than Yggdrasil A2. Yggdrasil GS is A1 but without the Unison USB so you need a good transport/streamer prior to Yggdrasil GS in order to maximize its potential


----------



## tafens

UntilThen said:


> In a nutshell, BF2 is warmer, more closed in soundstage compared to Yggdrasil v1. I use both accordingly but I use Yggdrasil mostly. I like Bf2 for it's slight warmth and relaxing manner in portraying music. I love Yggdrasil for the details and clarity and yet it's not tiring to listen to.


That sounds really good for the Yggdrasil, as the Bifrost2 has a very good and expansive soundstage of its own to my ears.


----------



## UntilThen

tafens said:


> That sounds really good for the Yggdrasil, as the Bifrost2 has a very good and expansive soundstage of its own to my ears.



You're right. BF2 is no dud when it comes to soundstage but Yggdrasil is in a class of it's own.


----------



## buson160man

Well this is crazy I am using a harmonic tech ac-10 power cord on my jottenheim 2 and I swapped in my older harmonic tech ac-11 on my new bifrost 2 . The set up is sounding quite a bit better. And my Elac Naviis speakers are now sounding much better as well. What is wrong with us audiophiles using a thousand dollars plus of power cords on 2 schiit pieces that would have cost 1100 USD if I did not opt the JOT 2 with the multibit dac.


----------



## buson160man

But to its credit the Schiit stack with the addition of the harmonic tech cords are singing together very nicely.


----------



## hodgjy

Neweymatt said:


> Mate, thanks much for this.
> 
> I've resisted tubes for a while, as I can tell from the various tube-rolling threads they are highly engaging/addictive.
> 
> Vali2+ it is then for now, you know, just for a taste, I'm sure it will stop there..


The Vali 2+ is really an excellent amp and it seems better every time I use it. I'm not sure how Jason pulled that all off for $149, but he did. You don't have to roll many tubes. Get a Voskhod rocket 6N1P-EV and call it a day. It has the most richness and warmth of all the tubes I've tried. If you're a detail and sound stage freak, go the 6CG7 route. Don't go the 6922/6DJ8/E88CC route as those tubes are too thin and splashy in the Vali 2+.


----------



## buson160man (Aug 10, 2021)

Well got my new silnote  Morpheus Ref Classic  11 XLR cable  today popped it in and it seems to have made a noticeable improvement up and down over my old cable pro ( no longer in business) XLR cable. Loving the schiit stack even more and my ELAC Naviis speakers are sounding a lot better as well . So the break in process on my schiit stack keeps progressing in a positive direction.


----------



## john2000

UntilThen said:


> You're right. BF2 is no dud when it comes to soundstage but Yggdrasil is in a class of it's own.


yggy a1 or a2?


----------



## UntilThen

john2000 said:


> yggy a1 or a2?



Yggy 1, that's what I said.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/post-16495938


----------



## john2000

Sorry didn't see. Are you using yggy balanced or single ended?


----------



## UntilThen

john2000 said:


> Sorry didn't see. Are you using yggy balanced or single ended?


I use all 3 outputs to my 3 tube amps. One xlr and 2 RCAs. When I had Ragnarok, it’s always the balanced xlr connection because that sound best.


----------



## 2ndWedge (Aug 12, 2021)

cgb3 said:


> I find the Lyr 3 is a fantastic pre-amp to the the Jot 2, for my music.
> 
> Before I purchased my Jot 2, the Lyr 3 was my main amp. Purchased second hand (from another Head-Fi member), the Lyr3 came with the stock JJ 6SN7, and a NOS Sylvania 6SN7. I purchased a new manufacture Tung Sol 6SN7, that I perceived as superior to the JJ and Sylvania.
> 
> ...


Of all the preamps that Schiit offers and not being able to afford the $950 Freya +, would you recommend the Lyr3 as a preamp to be connected to a solid state power amp and floor standing speakers.  I don't need Saga's 5 inputs or remote control and it is too much like a SYS (which I use now).  It would also give me a great headphone amp and I would add the MM stage for my turntable.  One tube only and 3 devices in one it looks hard to beat but would it blow up my speakers if there is a power outage or would I be keeping it on low voltage to safeguard against this.  Does low voltage affect both the RCA outs and headphone outs or just the latter.  Or is voltage spikes on shut off an anomaly for some production Lyr3's and something I don't have to worry about.

P.S. I didn't realize the Schiit upgrade queue was for all Schiit products.  I just dropped from position 45 to zero in a week, so off my Bifrost goes for the $200 upgrade.  Hope it sounds as good as the reviews here for the Bifrost 2.


----------



## buson160man

2ndWedge said:


> Of all the preamps that Schiit offers and not being able to afford the $950 Freya +, would you recommend the Lyr3 as a preamp to be connected to a solid state power amp and floor standing speakers.  I don't need Saga's 5 inputs or remote control and it is too much like a SYS (which I use now).  It would also give me a great headphone amp and I would add the MM stage for my turntable.  One tube only and 3 devices in one it looks hard to beat but would it blow up my speakers if there is a power outage or would I be keeping it on low voltage to safeguard against this.  Does low voltage affect both the RCA outs and headphone outs or just the latter.  Or is voltage spikes on shut off an anomaly for some production Lyr3's and something I don't have to worry about.
> 
> P.S. I didn't realize the Schiit upgrade queue was for all Schiit products.  I just dropped from position 45 to zero in a week, so off my Bifrost goes for the $200 upgrade.  Hope it sounds as good as the reviews here for the Bifrost 2.


 Do you have an original bifrost? the bifrost 2 is a new design with interchangeable boards . There are updates available for the original but there are some that look to be unavailable on the original bifrost.


----------



## 2ndWedge

buson160man said:


> Do you have an original bifrost? the bifrost 2 is a new design with interchangeable boards . There are updates available for the original but there are some that look to be unavailable on the original bifrost.


Yes, my order history shows I purchased it in 2012 or 2013 and have made 14 Schiit purchases overall incl all the upgrades for the Bifrost and now I am getting the UNison USB card installed.  I realize that the power supply may not be as good as the Bifrost 2 and I only need RCA out, besides the Canadian price with shipping on the Bifrost 2 is $950 vs the $380 round trip all in cost of the upgrade,  Money saved can buy me a preamp.  Besides I'm 'attached' to the original and its upgradeability.


----------



## Bimbleton

I realize that traditionally a BF2 is paired with a Jot2, but I’m a little concerned about usable volume range with my efficient LCD-X’s. Singxer’s amp has much more usable volume range, I believe.

Has anyone paired the Bifrost 2 with a Singxer SA-1?


----------



## tjdub

I am using my bifrost with a gsx mini that is very similar to the SA1 and can run the lcdx with no issues


----------



## Blacksun (Aug 20, 2021)

Thinking of upgrading my DAC to a new Yggy.  Read through the past 50 pages....  I have a BiFrost II paired with a Mjolnir 2 w/Matched Pair Amperex JAN 7308/E188CC Gold Pins pushing through either 650's or most of the time 800S's.

Thoughts from those of you that have had the BF2 going to the Yggy with a similar setup if it is worth it or just keep what I have.

Thanks for any insight...


----------



## hodgjy

Blacksun said:


> Thinking of upgrading my DAC to a new Yggy.  Read through the past 50 pages....  I have a BiFrost II paired with a Mjolnir 2 w/Matched Pair Amperex JAN 7308/E188CC Gold Pins pushing through either 650's or most of the time 800S's.
> 
> Thoughts from those of you that have had the BF2 going to the Yggy with a similar setup if it is worth it or just keep what I have.
> 
> Thanks for any insight...


Everything I've read is the HD 650s aren't enough headphone to make use of all the extra detail the Yggy provides. If you plan on using a speaker system or the 800S exclusively, then the differences are quite audible.


----------



## ohmy

prof.utonium said:


> I have my Lokius sandwiched between my BF2 (bottom) and Jot2 (top) with no problems.
> 
> Update: I recently modified my Schiit stack. If I listen 4 or more hours the Schiit stack was getting bloody hot so I added ½” rubber feet between each piece of Schiit and temps came way down. Oddly enough the biggest heat contributor is the Lokius.


Do you recall what store you purchased these rubber feet from?


----------



## prof.utonium (Aug 25, 2021)

ohmy said:


> Do you recall what store you purchased these rubber feet from?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S47D52G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
No need to remove the OEM feet they fit inside these when flipped up-side-down like I did. Note: the Lokius front feet are very close to the front edge, so the new feet are directly behind them.


----------



## ohmy

prof.utonium said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S47D52G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> No need to remove the OEM feet they fit inside these when flipped up-side-down like I did. Note: the Lokius front feet are very close to the front edge, so the new feet are directly behind them.


Thank you, and for the heads up. I have the same stack and I was having trouble finding something with an opening large enough to cover the existing feet. I didn’t want to remove them.


----------



## ToxicRisk

There is a way to see the sample rate on the Bifrost? 

✌️


----------



## tafens

ToxicRisk said:


> There is a way to see the sample rate on the Bifrost?
> 
> ✌️


Unfortunately no, there are no sample rate indicators on the Bifrost.


----------



## ToxicRisk

And on Windows?


----------



## davidfrance

ToxicRisk said:


> And on Windows?


The software you are using to send the data to the DAC certainly can tell you what the sample rate is of the file it is reading.


----------



## prof.utonium




----------



## Lvivske

not all software says, but if you went into device properties you'd set the output rate


----------



## ToxicRisk

prof.utonium said:


>


Great, is from Roon software ?


----------



## prof.utonium

ToxicRisk said:


> Great, is from Roon software ?


Yes


----------



## Nebula769

How does the Bifrost 2 stack up against the gungnir multibit?


----------



## PopZeus

Any chance Schiit would ever make a coax card to replace the USB input? If I was to use this in a living room, having 2 coax inputs would allow me to use it with a streamer and a CD transport at the same time.


----------



## tmac17

TheRealDz said:


> I am somewhat torn between getting the BF2 or Ares 2.  I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the two...


I'd suggest Ares 2 for 2channel system...Schiit for headphone set up. Though the bitfrost will work great in 2 ch system... can't say the same for the Ares in regards to headphone set up.


----------



## tjdub

I cant comment on a speaker system but I did tried the aries 2 and bifrost 2 head to head with my headphones and to me the bifrost had better soundstage and instrument separation wile still keeping that r2r warm goodness, the aries sounded muddied against the bifrost


----------



## EagleWings

@tmac17 curious why you aren’t a fan of AresII for headphones. Is it the same reason that @tjdub mentioned?


----------



## tmac17

I have to search and see his reply but full disclosure... Im basing my opinion solely on the zillion forums and conversations that I've scrolled through from people who seemingly know what they like. Just seems like Denaphrips makes their products for mid to high fi speaker systems 1st.  Schiit as many of the other companies that make DAC equipment tend to cater to headphones 1st. I honestly haven't come across anyone who prefers Denaphrips over Schiit for headphones but I'm sure they are out there.


----------



## hodgjy

tmac17 said:


> I have to search and see his reply but full disclosure... Im basing my opinion solely on the zillion forums and conversations that I've scrolled through from people who seemingly know what they like. Just seems like Denaphrips makes their products for mid to high fi speaker systems 1st.  Schiit as many of the other companies that make DAC equipment tend to cater to headphones 1st. I honestly haven't come across anyone who prefers Denaphrips over Schiit for headphones but I'm sure they are out there.


But also consider that Mike Moffat goes to the opera to hear how music truly sounds. I'm sure he uses a good dose of speakers when tuning his DACs.


----------



## Tralfaz

While I can't speak to the Denafrips Ares, I use my BF2 mostly through speakers (Genelec studio monitors set up for near field listening) and can say the BF2 sounds excellent through this setup, presenting music in a way that works for me.  The BF2 delivers detail, accurate timbre, note attack and decay, an appropriate sense of scale, rhythmic drive, soundstage width and depth, image solidity, etc.  While my setup may only work for me, it's what I like and I like it a lot.  If there's a Schiit "house sound" it's one I like and I appreciate the excellent customer support I've received from the company, the 5-year warranty, and the overall value of Schiit products.

Good luck with your search!


----------



## tmac17

hodgjy said:


> But also consider that Mike Moffat goes to the opera to hear how music truly sounds. I'm sure he uses a good dose of speakers when tuning his DACs.


That's interesting.  Didn't know that. Just seems vast majority of conversations


----------



## tmac17

In regards to the Gungnir multibit.. I'm seeing a lot of people saying there are two versions floating around. The 1st being more analog and warm sounding while the 2nd and assuming the one Schiit provides now is more cold. Almost bought the gungir multibit for that warm side of neutral sound until I came across forums saying how much it has changed. Anyone have recent experiences with this? If it's indeed fact that Schiitt for whatever reasons changed the sound signature of the gungir...then I may just get the bitfrost. Really was looking to stack though and I'm not putting anything on top of the freya +. 🥵


----------



## hodgjy

tmac17 said:


> In regards to the Gungnir multibit.. I'm seeing a lot of people saying there are two versions floating around. The 1st being more analog and warm sounding while the 2nd and assuming the one Schiit provides now is more cold. Almost bought the gungir multibit for that warm side of neutral sound until I came across forums saying how much it has changed. Anyone have recent experiences with this? If it's indeed fact that Schiitt for whatever reasons changed the sound signature of the gungir...then I may just get the bitfrost. Really was looking to stack though and I'm not putting anything on top of the freya +. 🥵


IMHO, the decision is easier than that.

If you have a fully balanced system and want to get the last drop of quality out of it, go Gungnir.

If you have a single-ended system, go Bifrost.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

hodgjy said:


> IMHO, the decision is easier than that.
> 
> If you have a fully balanced system and want to get the last drop of quality out of it, go Gungnir.
> 
> If you have a single-ended system, go Bifrost.



Do you say that because Bifrost 2 is “cheap-assed balanced”?


----------



## hodgjy

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> Do you say that because Bifrost 2 is “cheap-assed balanced”?


Yes, and my Gungnir has a very high noise floor in single ended.


----------



## tmac17 (Sep 7, 2021)

Right on. Assuming the freya + is truly balanced then I just have to find out if the Acoustic Energy AE1s Active speakers are truly balanced or not. They have xlr but it may be just a convenience thing.


----------



## tjdub (Sep 7, 2021)

There is discernable difference in audio quality between single and balanced on bifrost2 to my ears and with my system  the later being the better. But if the amp, headphones or speakers aren't  resolving and sensitive enough it really wont matter.


----------



## tjdub

I just got delivery of a Yggdrasil and even do its still warming up, holly crap its such a big difference between the gumby and bifrost.


----------



## Lvivske (Sep 8, 2021)

Noticed this problem with my Bifrost 2 yesterday and cant account for it

I was trying the balanced out for fun to the Lokius/Rebel (and yes, again, it has zero affect on sound at all) and I dont know what happened but when I sat down again there was no sound coming out of my system. I reset my Mac to make sure it wasnt software related or something frozen, but audio was coming out of my system speakers fine. I checked all connections, it was all fine. The Bifrost was powered on, I could select it as an audio option, and if I changed the bitrate in MIDI control the B2 would respond and click, interacting with the Mac. So the Mac could see the Bifrost, and the Bifrost could receive the source....but no audio came out.

I tried unplugging it, letting it discharge for an hour, used a ouija board and hoped that would just restart it back to normal - nope

I then unplugged it from my system and put it on my alternate, using the optical in from my Apple TV....audio worked again. So at that point I assumed the USB input was problematic

I plugged it back into my system like before and it magically worked again with USB

*Is there any reason this should ever happen?*


----------



## ohmy

Lvivske said:


> Noticed this problem with my Bifrost 2 yesterday and cant account for it
> 
> I was trying the balanced out for fun to the Lokius/Rebel (and yes, again, it has zero affect on sound at all) and I dont know what happened but when I sat down again there was no sound coming out of my system. I reset my Mac to make sure it wasnt software related or something frozen, but audio was coming out of my system speakers fine. I checked all connections, it was all fine. The Bifrost was powered on, I could select it as an audio option, and if I changed the bitrate in MIDI control the B2 would respond and click, interacting with the Mac. So the Mac could see the Bifrost, and the Bifrost could receive the source....but no audio came out.
> 
> ...


I would consider sending it back for repair if you can repeat the issue. I just recently lost all audio output on mine. didn't matter if it was Windows, MacOS, USB, optical, different cables. The Bifrost 2 just powered on with no output.


----------



## hodgjy

ohmy said:


> I would consider sending it back for repair if you can repeat the issue. I just recently lost all audio output on mine. didn't matter if it was Windows, MacOS, USB, optical, different cables. The Bifrost 2 just powered on with no output.


I'm really starting to question Schiit's QC and reliability. I just had to send back my 2-month old Vali 2+ because it had static in the pot, crackly treble, and would totally lose bass at times, sounding thin and bright. If I power cycled it, it would be warm and euphonic in comparison. At first I thought it was the tube, but I could replicate this on all my tubes.


----------



## Tralfaz

Lvivske said:


> Noticed this problem with my Bifrost 2 yesterday and cant account for it
> 
> I was trying the balanced out for fun to the Lokius/Rebel (and yes, again, it has zero affect on sound at all) and I dont know what happened but when I sat down again there was no sound coming out of my system. I reset my Mac to make sure it wasnt software related or something frozen, but audio was coming out of my system speakers fine. I checked all connections, it was all fine. The Bifrost was powered on, I could select it as an audio option, and if I changed the bitrate in MIDI control the B2 would respond and click, interacting with the Mac. So the Mac could see the Bifrost, and the Bifrost could receive the source....but no audio came out.
> 
> ...


MacOS will occasionally mute the BF2 in my system.  I have no idea what causes it to do this but going into "Sound" in the System Preferences and checking the devices under the "Output" tab you may see that the Mute box has been checked; just uncheck it and you should be good to go.  I freaked out the first time it happened (after I changed the USB cable connecting the BF2 to my iMac) but figured it out the second time it happened.  I can't explain it but hope the next big MacOS update (which should be coming soon) will sort out this issue.


----------



## Lvivske

ohmy said:


> I would consider sending it back for repair if you can repeat the issue. I just recently lost all audio output on mine. didn't matter if it was Windows, MacOS, USB, optical, different cables. The Bifrost 2 just powered on with no output.



in your case, did your computer still recognize the device, or was it just a brick?


----------



## Tralfaz

Lvivske said:


> in your case, did your computer still recognize the device, or was it just a brick?


The BF2 showed as a device, I just didn't get any output.  The solution wasn't obvious but I would have gone nuts if I hadn't figured it out.  (I'm running the most current version of MacOS Big Sur.)


----------



## ohmy

Lvivske said:


> in your case, did your computer still recognize the device, or was it just a brick?


It did, but no sound would come out. I even A/B tested with another DAC to check on the cables and all. Same result across two PCs and two OSes.


----------



## Lvivske

Tralfaz said:


> MacOS will occasionally mute the BF2 in my system.  I have no idea what causes it to do this but going into "Sound" in the System Preferences and checking the devices under the "Output" tab you may see that the Mute box has been checked; just uncheck it and you should be good to go.  I freaked out the first time it happened (after I changed the USB cable connecting the BF2 to my iMac) but figured it out the second time it happened.  I can't explain it but hope the next big MacOS update (which should be coming soon) will sort out this issue.



I actually didnt think to look at that, thanks for reminding me. (no reason for it to have been triggered at random but who knows now)



hodgjy said:


> I'm really starting to question Schiit's QC and reliability. I just had to send back my 2-month old Vali 2+ because it had static in the pot, crackly treble, and would totally lose bass at times, sounding thin and bright. If I power cycled it, it would be warm and euphonic in comparison. At first I thought it was the tube, but I could replicate this on all my tubes.



After having noise issues on my first Lokius (not to mention the crappy pots) I'm definitely on edge now that this scare happened on the more expensive item...


----------



## Lvivske

ohmy said:


> It did, but no sound would come out. I even A/B tested with another DAC to check on the cables and all. Same result across two PCs and two OSes.



Great...


----------



## Smoothstereo

Lvivske said:


> Noticed this problem with my Bifrost 2 yesterday and cant account for it
> 
> I was trying the balanced out for fun to the Lokius/Rebel (and yes, again, it has zero affect on sound at all) and I dont know what happened but when I sat down again there was no sound coming out of my system. I reset my Mac to make sure it wasnt software related or something frozen, but audio was coming out of my system speakers fine. I checked all connections, it was all fine. The Bifrost was powered on, I could select it as an audio option, and if I changed the bitrate in MIDI control the B2 would respond and click, interacting with the Mac. So the Mac could see the Bifrost, and the Bifrost could receive the source....but no audio came out.
> 
> ...


Did you check your power cord on the Bifrost2 when you experienced the issue? When I first got my BF2, I didn't plug the power cord tight enough and it didn't output audio. I powered it off and then I plugged the power cord tighter and turned back on and it has worked flawlessly ever since.


----------



## Lvivske

Smoothstereo said:


> Did you check your power cord on the Bifrost2 when you experienced the issue? When I first got my BF2, I didn't plug the power cord tight enough and it didn't output audio. I powered it off and then I plugged the power cord tighter and turned back on and it has worked flawlessly ever since.



You're saying it was already on, but wasn't outputting sound until jimmying the power cord?


----------



## ohmy

hodgjy said:


> I'm really starting to question Schiit's QC and reliability. I just had to send back my 2-month old Vali 2+ because it had static in the pot, crackly treble, and would totally lose bass at times, sounding thin and bright. If I power cycled it, it would be warm and euphonic in comparison. At first I thought it was the tube, but I could replicate this on all my tubes.



I honestly think it would be beneficial for them to release any data they have on the percentage of each product that is returned as (and proven to be) defective. My guess is that the numbers are pretty average. It‘s just that the hifi audio community, by definition, is a nit-picky bunch. Plus, bad news is more likely and quicker to spread. I mean, what percentage of people take the time to post when the thing they bought is working as intended vs. not working as intended? If the defective numbers are close to the industry average, I’m totally fine with that. 

I like supporting Schiit because they are providing USA jobs, they create a high-value product, and they have a sense of humor and candor that seems rare. I also understand they are small, growing quickly, and trying to survive the supply chain nightmare that the pandemic has created. So, I’m willing to give them a pass on some things, like really slow and somewhat sub-standard customer service (i.e. response time and quality of said responses). All that being said, a poor product will not survive my (and I would wager, most customer’s) good graces.


----------



## Crowbar44 (Sep 8, 2021)

NCPat said:


> Hello,
> Will return to work in Mid may. My office has a door and co-workers won't hear noise leak from open back head phones. New to headphone game, currently have Sony XM3 wireless and Apple Air Pods. First experience with headphone amp and external dac. Iphone 8plus source. Probably downloaded Quobuz and Amazon HD content - work prohibits streaming on company wifi, my phone signal weak.
> 
> Leaning towards first system similar to *JoseG86*
> ...



I'm a bit allergic to expensive cables, and I'd rather get another set of cans before I spent 4-figues on a cable!.  I got a fantastic XLR cable for my OG Focal Clear's from Norne Audio, custom made with a ton of options, very, very reasonable prices and a complete upgrade from the stock cables, amazing build quality.

If you're in the office, I'd recommend using your computer as a source as it allows for exclusive mode and lets your get the highest bitrate you can from Tidal/Quobuz/Amazon/Apple Music, probably doesn't matter with Spotify.  You shelled out for a Bifrost 2, make sure it gets the highest bitrate you can give it!


----------



## Smoothstereo

Lvivske said:


> You're saying it was already on, but wasn't outputting sound until jimmying the power cord?


Yes, the loose connection of the power cord provided the BF2 to power on, but somehow not able to function audio output. By tightening it, I was able to hear audio come out. I have since used aftermarket power cord on the BF2 for a tighter fit and for what it's worth sounded better. But that's another can of worms for debate 🙂.


----------



## Lvivske

Smoothstereo said:


> Yes, the loose connection of the power cord provided the BF2 to power on, but somehow not able to function audio output. By tightening it, I was able to hear audio come out. I have since used aftermarket power cord on the BF2 for a tighter fit and for what it's worth sounded better. But that's another can of worms for debate 🙂.



Interesting. I vaguely remember issues where I needed to reseat the power but I forget the symptoms now (just the memory of being annoyed over it). That said, I did re plug everything twice to no avail in this instance, unless I was just more frustrated and firmer on the 3rd attempt.

if its powering on, responsive, but not playing audio based on a loose connection....that doesnt sound good. Either current is flowing or not. Weird.


----------



## rkw

ohmy said:


> I honestly think it would be beneficial for them to release any data they have on the percentage of each product that is returned as (and proven to be) defective.


It is very unusual for any business to release such data. Businesses in any industry would certainly like to have this information about their competitors.


----------



## ToxicRisk

hodgjy said:


> IMHO, the decision is easier than that.
> 
> If you have a fully balanced system and want to get the last drop of quality out of it, go Gungnir.
> 
> If you have a single-ended system, go Bifrost.



Why  ? Bifrost is a balanced DAC


----------



## hodgjy

ToxicRisk said:


> Why  ? Bifrost is a balanced DAC


Mike Moffat himself called it cheap assed balanced. Gungnir balanced is on another level.


----------



## ToxicRisk

hodgjy said:


> Mike Moffat himself called it cheap assed balanced. Gungnir balanced is on another level.


A 700$ DAC, cheap?


----------



## Alcophone (Sep 8, 2021)

ToxicRisk said:


> A 700$ DAC, cheap?


It's internally single ended, and then an opposite signal is generated from the analog output to produce a differential signal at the XLR outs.

Which is much cheaper than what Gungnir does, where a DSP sends an inverted digital signal for each channel to a separate DAC chip*, and then those separate outputs make up the two halves of a differential signal. Much more expensive because you need twice the amount of DAC chips (one per phase per channel instead of one per channel), analog filters, etc.

* Or maybe it gets the same signal but runs with the current flow reversed, assuming that's even possible. But you get the idea.


----------



## prof.utonium

Tralfaz said:


> The BF2 showed as a device, I just didn't get any output.  The solution wasn't obvious but I would have gone nuts if I hadn't figured it out.  (I'm running the most current version of MacOS Big Sur.)


I am running macOS Catalina and this has happened to me as well. I have checked the "Show Volume in the Menu Bar" so I can see when it happens, but it has not happed again.


----------



## Lvivske

prof.utonium said:


> I am running macOS Catalina and this has happened to me as well. I have checked the "Show Volume in the Menu Bar" so I can see when it happens, but it has not happed again.



huh? Volume in the menu bar is always on the "mute" icon when using the Bifrost because volume controls are disabled


----------



## prof.utonium

Lvivske said:


> huh? Volume in the menu bar is always on the "mute" icon when using the Bifrost because volume controls are disabled


That is correct. When not playing music it will show your volume setting, if it is still muted this is the tell.


----------



## markkr

Mine also lost all output recently, purchased about a year ago. 

I sent it back to Schiit, they repaired for free and shipped it back to me. I was very pleased with their customer service.


----------



## ohmy

markkr said:


> Mine also lost all output recently, purchased about a year ago.
> 
> I sent it back to Schiit, they repaired for free and shipped it back to me. I was very pleased with their customer service.


Did you have to pay for the shipping to them? I found it a bit surprising that they didn't cover that for a covered warranty fix.


----------



## Sean H

ToxicRisk said:


> Why  ? Bifrost is a balanced DAC


The Bifrost has balanced outputs essentially derived from the single ended circuit but does not have a true balanced circuit like the Gungnir or Yggdrasil.


----------



## tafens

ohmy said:


> I honestly think it would be beneficial for them to release any data they have on the percentage of each product that is returned as (and proven to be) defective. My guess is that the numbers are pretty average. It‘s just that the hifi audio community, by definition, is a nit-picky bunch. Plus, bad news is more likely and quicker to spread. I mean, what percentage of people take the time to post when the thing they bought is working as intended vs. not working as intended? If the defective numbers are close to the industry average, I’m totally fine with that.





rkw said:


> It is very unusual for any business to release such data. Businesses in any industry would certainly like to have this information about their competitors.



In the last live live stream they showed the Valencia premises and also went by the repairs department, which, if I understood things correctly, interestingly enough consisted of only one desk and one person. Apparently, that was enough to manage all repairs just fine. Of course there are lemons, and some slip out, but if the quality and QC were bad, I wouldn’t think just one repair person would be enough, especially considering the 5 year warranty on the larger gear.


----------



## ohmy

tafens said:


> In the last live live stream they showed the Valencia premises and also went by the repairs department, which, if I understood things correctly, interestingly enough consisted of only one desk and one person. Apparently, that was enough to manage all repairs just fine. Of course there are lemons, and some slip out, but if the quality and QC were bad, I wouldn’t think just one repair person would be enough, especially considering the 5 year warranty on the larger gear.


I watched that as well. They run a lean machine. It would be tough, as a business owner, to predict ROI on every little thing you do. I stand by my original sentiment. If any CEO/company would do such a thing, it seems it would be Jason/Schiit. Could it hurt their business? Maybe, but I doubt it. Part of the appeal is their upfront, candid, snarky approach. It draws some people in. It makes you feel like your part of something rather than dealing with a cold, lifeless, capitalistic entity.


----------



## Neweymatt

ohmy said:


> Could it hurt their business?


Sure, if they had great numbers to brag about they could do this in their typical goofy brash manner.  But if you do something like that, it's the kind of thing that could really come back to bite you in the future, so I'm not sure there's much advantage.

I reckon their current approach is just fine, Schiit is a clear price/performance leader in this market.  With the growing Schiit-pile I have on my desk, and plans for additional bits around the house, I accept that if I have any problem with one of the boxes, I'll have to send it back to the US.  That would be annoying, and a little bit expensive, but I figure I'm already ahead on the deal considering the value I perceive in the products, so I'll just roll with it if it happens.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

As a BF2 owner I follow this thread regularly, and I now have a question for the BF2 owners.

I am also very active in the iFI audio Zen Stream thread and a few people are having issues with the BF2 and three iFi, I'll be brief.

The situation is specifically when using Tidal Connect to the ZS and USB to three BF2. Some are getting very unstable connections, connections disappearing, and a few are having what I can only call a digital noise when pausing Tidal, it's almost like digital signal breakup, but starts constant.

This problem is Not Happening with my setup so it's hard to help them.

Are any of you guys expending any issues with Tidal Connect and the BF2 using USB?

Thanks in advance!!

Cheers!!!


----------



## Alcophone

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> The situation is specifically when using Tidal Connect to the ZS and USB to three BF2. Some are getting very unstable connections, connections disappearing, and a few are having what I can only call a digital noise when pausing Tidal, it's almost like digital signal breakup, but starts constant.


Unstable connections between the app and the streamer, or the streamer and the DAC? Connections disappearing = the streamer doesn't show up in Tidal Connect? Are there recordings of that breakup noise?


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde (Sep 10, 2021)

Alcophone said:


> Unstable connections between the app and the streamer, or the streamer and the DAC? Connections disappearing = the streamer doesn't show up in Tidal Connect? Are there recordings



Yes there are reports of both in terms of connection, I myself believe it something funky with Tidal Conn. But obviously I'm not sure.

The steamer disappears from the Tidal App as well. I did make a video that includes the original "digital" nose on pause at the beginning. I have done everything I can to try and assist in this, but I'm kinda at the end of what I can do.  Here's the video...


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Yes there are reports of both in terms of connection, I myself believe it something funky with Tidal Conn. But obviously I'm not sure.
> 
> The steamer disappears from the Tidal App as well. I did make a video that includes the original "digital" nose on pause at the beginning. I have done everything I can to try and assist in this, but I'm kinda at the end of what I can do.  Here's the video...




I used to get that noise with Tidal through microRendu into Yggy. I switched to Qobuz earlier this year and it hasn’t happened since.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> I used to get that noise with Tidal through microRendu into Yggy. I switched to Qobuz earlier this year and it hasn’t happened since.


Thanks appreciate it!!


----------



## Alcophone

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Yes there are reports of both in terms of connection, I myself believe it something funky with Tidal Conn. But obviously I'm not sure.
> 
> The steamer disappears from the Tidal App as well. I did make a video that includes the original "digital" nose on pause at the beginning. I have done everything I can to try and assist in this, but I'm kinda at the end of what I can do.  Here's the video...



Eek. Okay, that's not the buffer size issue I had with foobar2000, WASAPI event mode, and Bifrost 2. Schiit's DACs are pretty eager to disconnect when the signal gets funky, so combined with what @Zer0.p0int.Zer0 is saying, my hunch is that it's a Tidal Connect issue. Sounds like the streamer continues to send from the same buffer, and that buffer isn't getting refilled, so maybe the Tidal Connect half crashed and there's a separate streamer component that just shuffles bits from a buffer to the outputs. Would make sense from a noise isolation point of view.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Thanks appreciate it!!



Sure. I realize it’s a much different set up. I wasn’t using the Tidal app directly. I use Audirvāna to microRendu connected via Ethernet cable.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> Sure. I realize it’s a much different set up. I wasn’t using the Tidal app directly. I use Audirvāna to microRendu connected via Ethernet cable.


This seems to be pretty confined to the Tidal app itself, and only Tidal thru the connect app. All others like Roon are good!

Appreciate the info very much!!


----------



## markkr

ohmy said:


> Did you have to pay for the shipping to them? I found it a bit surprising that they didn't cover that for a covered warranty fix.


I had to pay for shipping back to them, honestly that seems quite fair to me.


----------



## cwoo (Sep 13, 2021)

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> This seems to be pretty confined to the Tidal app itself, and only Tidal thru the connect app. All others like Roon are good!
> 
> Appreciate the info very much!!


I get issues every time I have to do a Roon update.  I lose like 5 listening zones (my denon receiver usually tends to remain after the upgrade, but via airplay only).  It's really annoying.  I have a bifrost2 in my office, 2 monitors with speakers, a set of kanto desktop speakers, a USB headset, and a ropieeexl to a bifrost2 in the living room.

I spent hours researching the issue, messing with windows audio settings, rebooting my computer, unplugging the USB cables from the bifrost, rebooting the bifrost (which i hate turning them off), restarting the roon server, etc... nothing!

After a few hours, I would come back to my computer, and would find that all zones and devices are back up.  I'm not sure if this is a bifrost issue or not.  It really seems to be Roon related and its really frustrating.

I have even restored to a Roon backup and that does not help.

Now before an upgrade of Roon, I make sure that I am not sitting down for a listening session.  I'll make a note to upgrade like 8 hours before I plan on using the Roon software again.  The forums say this has been an issue in the past and was resolved.  I can confirm that there is still something not right, and I am certainly not going to blame the bifrosts for the fact that I lose like 5 other listening zones after a Roon software upgrade.

Oddly, the bifrosts will still show up as devices under the audio settings in Roon after the upgrade, but they will never be available as a listening zone.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

cwoo said:


> I get issues every time I have to do a Roon update.  I lose like 5 listening zones (my denon receiver usually tends to remain after the upgrade, but via airplay only).  It's really annoying.  I have a bifrost2 in my office, 2 monitors with speakers, a set of kanto desktop speakers, a USB headset, and a ropieeexl to a bifrost2 in the living room.
> 
> I spent hours researching the issue, messing with windows audio settings, rebooting my computer, unplugging the USB cables from the bifrost, rebooting the bifrost (which i hate turning them off), restarting the roon server, etc... nothing!
> 
> ...


I too have had that issue, I believed it's a prominent topic over at the Roon community as well.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Now being a proud owner of a BF2 I can actually post here instead of just lurking.  Placed my order for a Bifrost 2 and Jotunheim 2 on 11 August and received both last Tuesday (7 September).  Unpacked them and got them set up on Saturday.  No sound coming out of the BF2.  No clicking of relays when I use the Win10 device properties window to change and test sample rate and bit depth.  Shiit...it's DOA!  Fired off an email to Schiit customer service and got a response _early_ Sunday morning.  First thing that was asked was did I check out their DAC troubleshooting page.  I did, but decided to humor him and go look at it again later in the morning after my brain was firing on more than a single neuron.

Since I have only the USB input plugged in, checking inputs should be easy.  The one thing they didn't say in their guide was RTFM.  Well, I _looked_ at it. That's good enough, right?

Ok, I'm the first to admit I'm an idiot. I messed up on which LED corresponded to which input, and if I had a coax signal, I would have seen the BF working correctly. When I finally figured out which LED lights up when USB is selected, and tried the various bitrate tests, lo and behold, clicking relays and sound!!! Oh, and the Jot 2 gets LOUD!

Hello.  My name is Gumby and I'm an idiot.


----------



## prof.utonium

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> I too have had that issue, I believed it's a prominent topic over at the Roon community as well.


Are you running a Windows OS as well? Only reason I asked is that I have been running Roon on an Apple desktop for years and have never had this happen to my four zones.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

prof.utonium said:


> Are you running a Windows OS as well? Only reason I asked is that I have been running Roon on an Apple desktop for years and have never had this happen to my four zones



Initially I was strictly on MAC, then I moved my core to a windows PC, then Back to MAC, now on the ROCK platform with a NUC, lol

I would really have to think about where it happened the most, but it has been more since the new update that's for sure.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Sep 13, 2021)

Odd.  I run Roon core on a Win10 computer feeding a Pi 4 running Ropieee XL, a Pi3B+ running piCorePlayer, as well another Win10 PC.  No issues like you've described on the current 814 build.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Question for the Collective - Up until Sunday, I was using a Bifrost MB with USB Gen 5 I got from B-stock.  No problems at all.  However, whenever I powered the computer up or down, the BF would always click a few times as the USB was in and out of active.  It is connected to the computer through a USB 3.0 powered hub.  With the BF2, I don't hear it clicking unless it's switching bitrate or depth.  Is this normal with Unison?  The DAC is performing as expected, so no worries.  I'm just curious about the different behavior.  Thanks!


----------



## Tralfaz

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Question for the Collective - Up until Sunday, I was using a Bifrost MB with USB Gen 5 I got from B-stock.  No problems at all.  However, whenever I powered the computer up or down, the BF would always click a few times as the USB was in and out of active.  It is connected to the computer through a USB 3.0 powered hub.  With the BF2, I don't hear it clicking unless it's switching bitrate or depth.  Is this normal with Unison?  The DAC is performing as expected, so no worries.  I'm just curious about the different behavior.  Thanks!


I made the same transition from a Bimby with Gen 5 to a BF2 and while it's been a while, what you describe sounds right to me.  The BF2 is an entirely different product and does behave differently than the Bimby.


----------



## SolaVirtus

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Question for the Collective - Up until Sunday, I was using a Bifrost MB with USB Gen 5 I got from B-stock.  No problems at all.  However, whenever I powered the computer up or down, the BF would always click a few times as the USB was in and out of active.  It is connected to the computer through a USB 3.0 powered hub.  With the BF2, I don't hear it clicking unless it's switching bitrate or depth.  Is this normal with Unison?  The DAC is performing as expected, so no worries.  I'm just curious about the different behavior.  Thanks!


I'll add that this is the normal behavior and similar setup as I have with my BF2. I can't help with comparison to older schiit gear, though.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

I'm so used to hearing the relays click when I power up the computer that now I have to catch myself because I'm still thinking something locked up.


----------



## cgb3

Lvivske said:


> Noticed this problem with my Bifrost 2 yesterday and cant account for it
> 
> I was trying the balanced out for fun to the Lokius/Rebel (and yes, again, it has zero affect on sound at all) and I dont know what happened but when I sat down again there was no sound coming out of my system. I reset my Mac to make sure it wasnt software related or something frozen, but audio was coming out of my system speakers fine. I checked all connections, it was all fine. The Bifrost was powered on, I could select it as an audio option, and if I changed the bitrate in MIDI control the B2 would respond and click, interacting with the Mac. So the Mac could see the Bifrost, and the Bifrost could receive the source....but no audio came out.
> 
> ...


I'm no theologian, but I'm pretty sure God hates Mac.


----------



## Alcophone

cgb3 said:


> I'm no theologian, but I'm pretty sure God hates Mac.


A few weeks ago I tried the SMSL AD18, a cheap do-it-all device with a USB input and more. After a few minutes the sound would stop until I switched audio output devices to something else and back. I tried different outlets, a USB isolator, replacing the USB power, all to no avail. Then I tried a Topping D10, converting USB to TOSLINK, feeding the AD18 indirectly. And... the same issue.

So I restarted the Mac and everything was good after.

In the kitchen I have an old iPad as a TV/streamer combo. It fed a Modi Multibit at the time. After a few weeks it gets into a funky state and sends broken audio to the DAC.

After a restart it's good for some more weeks.

Combined with the lack of exclusive/direct mode (apparently there used to be such a thing), the removal of TOSLINK support in the MacBook Pros, and the removal of the headphone jack on phones, it's clear that Apple has a... unique perspective on where computer audio should go.

But I was very pleasantly surprised that Mac OS supports audio device groups. This allowed me to send audio to three USB DACs simultaneously, without requiring any special software. Very convenient when comparing DACs. Check the Audio MIDI Setup tool (Applications > Utilities) if that is of interest.


----------



## Bassic Needs

I seem to have a USB problem with a new Bifrost 2.
 The set up is at my office. Each morning I power on the BF2, Lokius, and Vali 2, and connect my Samsung Galaxy Fold 3 phone as the source via USB-C to USB-B cable to the BF2.  It works fine. However, if I disconnect my phone to walk away from my desk, when I come back and reconnect the phone the BF2 never detects a USB connection and wont play music. The BF2 doesnt do any clicking or anything,  like it normally does when it initially detects a USB connection. I have to unplug the BF2's AC power cable, and switch the power on/off many times before  it willl detect the USB/phone again. Its a real pain in the ass. The Modi 3/Loki Mini stack at my desk does not have this problem.
Have others had problems with BF2 detecting USB?


----------



## Bassic Needs

The problem seems to be worse than stated. Its been 30 minutes of power cycling the phone ad BF2 and it still wont detect USB.  
Yesterday I contacted Schiit (no response yet) and ordered a new USB cable just in case. But unless there is a clear user error here I'll probably be asking for a replacement or a refund.


----------



## jnak00

Bassic Needs said:


> The problem seems to be worse than stated. Its been 30 minutes of power cycling the phone ad BF2 and it still wont detect USB.
> Yesterday I contacted Schiit (no response yet) and ordered a new USB cable just in case. But unless there is a clear user error here I'll probably be asking for a replacement or a refund.



In Android, you can select the USB behaviour when you plug something in.  Did you check that setting on your phone?  Probably a long shot but you never know.


----------



## SolaVirtus

Have you observe it working differently with a different source? A computer or iOS device, maybe?


----------



## Bassic Needs

SolaVirtus said:


> Have you observe it working differently with a different source? A computer or iOS device, maybe?


The day I received it, at home I did a couple hours of breakin and function tests and I had no problems with 1. USB:  Laptop USB-A out to Bifrost USB-B input; nor 2. Optical: Chromecast Audio Dongle output to Bifrost optical input.
Now that the BF2 is at my workplace,  I can only troubleshoot on business days but that is a good idea: I'll take a laptop and tablet in and test those on USB as well as a process of elimination to see if its my phone.


----------



## Bassic Needs

jnak00 said:


> In Android, you can select the USB behaviour when you plug something in.  Did you check that setting on your phone?  Probably a long shot but you never know.


I did check the Android audio settings,  and when the problems were occuring, the BF2 wasn't showing up as a connected device at all from the phone's point of view. Not sure though if the phone is to blame or the BF2.


----------



## Alcophone

@Bassic Needs Are you simply using Android, or also USB Audio Player Pro?

It's been a while since I tested it, but I definitely had issues with an Android phone and the Bifrost 2.



> *Samsung Galaxy S10 Plus (Android 9, Kernel 4.14.78)*
> 
> _Player: USB Audio Player Pro (5.2.8)_
> 
> ...


----------



## Smoothstereo (Sep 17, 2021)

Just providing my experiences with an older Android phone (Samsung S7 edge) using USB Audio Player Pro with BF2. No issues whatsoever. All my files are wav 44.1khz. I do not have issues if I unplug my phone from the usb cable and then plug it back again it will recognize the connection and play music without issue. I have also played music on my phone, stopped the song then unplug and re-plug it into another dac and that other dac recognizes the connection and plays without issue. Then I go back to BF2 and picks up seamlessly.


----------



## Coran

I'm looking to upgrade from the cheapo Amazon Basics USB cable I have for my Bifrost. I'm re-arranging my desk, so I'll need something a bit longer, maybe around 4-6 feet. What nicer cables have some of you folks tried and liked? I might want something with better shielding as I have a lot going on cable wise as I clean stuff up.


----------



## Alcophone

Coran said:


> I'm looking to upgrade from the cheapo Amazon Basics USB cable I have for my Bifrost. I'm re-arranging my desk, so I'll need something a bit longer, maybe around 4-6 feet. What nicer cables have some of you folks tried and liked? I might want something with better shielding as I have a lot going on cable wise as I clean stuff up.


I've grown fond of Wireworld in general and the Chroma 8 USB cables are my go to cables now, even though I wish I could pick a different color for the same price. And while there are numerous cables that I believe to have heard differences with, USB cables aren't among them (though I haven't tried hard, either). I have used the Amazon Basics ones as well, they appear to work just fine. The fanciest one I have is an iFi Mercury that I won. It is short, yet has three heavy "metal oxide ceramic filters" that just randomly slide around and I had some trouble with it staying connected, so... great success.


----------



## tafens

Coran said:


> I'm looking to upgrade from the cheapo Amazon Basics USB cable I have for my Bifrost. I'm re-arranging my desk, so I'll need something a bit longer, maybe around 4-6 feet. What nicer cables have some of you folks tried and liked? I might want something with better shielding as I have a lot going on cable wise as I clean stuff up.


I have tried the low to mid tier Audioquest cables and am quite happy with them. Currently running a Carbon A-B between my MacBook and Bifrost2, it is however less “bendy” than most generic ones so I wouldn’t recommend it if one needs to route it around tight corners.


----------



## Lichi

My Bifrost was bought 5 years ago. Consider buying an upgrade DAC with a balanced output which compatibles with Mjolnir 2. Is there any difference between the new Bifrost and Gungnir(either the old Ver. or the new Ver.)?


----------



## Flak

I received a Bifrost 2 today that is currently paired with an Asgard 3...  Would going Bifrost 2 > Jotunheim 2 Balanced or Bifrost 2 > Lyr 3 give anything over the Bifrost 2 > Asgard 3?  If I went balanced with the Jotunheim 2 I'd also go balanced with the headphones (Nighthawk, SR2, OG Clear Pro).


----------



## Tralfaz

Flak said:


> I received a Bifrost 2 today that is currently paired with an Asgard 3...  Would going Bifrost 2 > Jotunheim 2 Balanced or Bifrost 2 > Lyr 3 give anything over the Bifrost 2 > Asgard 3?  If I went balanced with the Jotunheim 2 I'd also go balanced with the headphones (Nighthawk, SR2, OG Clear Pro).


I imagine this would come down to which headphone amp sounds best to you.  I can't speak to the Asgard 3 or the Jotunheim 2 as I've always been partial to having a tube somewhere in the signal path, which is why I'm using the Lyr 3 and also own a Valhalla 2 and a Saga (non-Plus version).  I'm interested to hear others' take on your question, especially whether going all-balanced makes more of a difference than changing amps.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Coran said:


> I'm looking to upgrade from the cheapo Amazon Basics USB cable I have for my Bifrost. I'm re-arranging my desk, so I'll need something a bit longer, maybe around 4-6 feet. What nicer cables have some of you folks tried and liked? I might want something with better shielding as I have a lot going on cable wise as I clean stuff up.


I don't think you could go wrong with a Pyst cable from Schiit...assuming they're in stock.


----------



## Flak

Coran said:


> I'm looking to upgrade from the cheapo Amazon Basics USB cable I have for my Bifrost. I'm re-arranging my desk, so I'll need something a bit longer, maybe around 4-6 feet. What nicer cables have some of you folks tried and liked? I might want something with better shielding as I have a lot going on cable wise as I clean stuff up.


The monoprice monolith USB b cable is extremely good... Especially once you factor in price.
https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-USB...nolith+usb+b&qid=1632145410&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Bassic Needs

Bassic Needs said:


> I did check the Android audio settings,  and when the problems were occuring, the BF2 wasn't showing up as a connected device at all from the phone's point of view. Not sure though if the phone is to blame or the BF2.


Additional testing today showed me when the BF2 has just been powered on and is still cool, it will reliably detect my phone disconnecting and reconnecting via USB. However after about an hour, once the BF2 heats up it will no longer detect a USB device has been reconnected. I have tried two different USB cables as well.
The Modi 3 also on my desk has no such problem.


----------



## prof.utonium

Bassic Needs said:


> Additional testing today showed me when the BF2 has just been powered on and is still cool, it will reliably detect my phone disconnecting and reconnecting via USB. However after about an hour, once the BF2 heats up it will no longer detect a USB device has been reconnected. I have tried two different USB cables as well.
> The Modi 3 also on my desk has no such problem.


cut and paste that in your service request for Schiit


----------



## Bassic Needs

prof.utonium said:


> cut and paste that in your service request for Schiit


Unfortunately that's not how Schiit's site works. There is no Service Request displayed to the user.

I am postimg my issue and the eventual resolution here. This will allow the community to better understand if a trend exists or if mine was an isolated incident.


----------



## Flak

Bassic Needs said:


> Unfortunately that's not how Schiit's site works. There is no Service Request displayed to the user.
> 
> I am postimg my issue and the eventual resolution here. This will allow the community to better understand if a trend exists or if mine was an isolated incident.


Emailing them works.....


----------



## Bassic Needs

Flak said:


> Emailing them works.....


Which I did, on Thursday.


----------



## Coran

Flak said:


> The monoprice monolith USB b cable is extremely good... Especially once you factor in price.
> https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-USB-Digital-Audio-Cable/dp/B07Q8X5H5T/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=monolith+usb+b&qid=1632145410&sr=8-3&th=1&psc=1



I had no idea Monoprice made a cable like this (although I shouldn't be surprised). If this is as good as advertised, this is perfect. And I was almost considering an Audioquest Cinnamon cable too...Thanks!


----------



## Alcophone

Coran said:


> I had no idea Monoprice made a cable like this (although I shouldn't be surprised).


The Monolith brand seems to be an attempt by Monoprice to cover every aspect of audio, they have speakers, headphones, subwoofers, amplifiers, portable amps, donge DACs, cables, even furniture.

And looking at the furniture... the finish of the Monolith 4 Tier/Shelf Audio Stand matches what Pangea does, and the posts seem exactly the same.

For the USB cable, one reviewer who cut it open says "It appears to be a very similar design to Belkins usb cable and pangea audios usb cable."

So I'm not sure who actually makes these cables, there seem to be a lot of licensing deals going on.

Of course that's not a judgment of the quality of the cable, I have never used either a Monolith, Pangea or Belkin USB cable.


----------



## Ripper2860

Alcophone said:


> So I'm not sure who actually makes these cables, there seem to be a lot of licensing deals going on.
> 
> Of course that's not a judgment of the quality of the cable, I have never used either a Monolith, Pangea or Belkin USB cable.


That you know of.


----------



## ToxicRisk

Since I understand that the bifrost 2 isn't a "real" balanced DAD. What about the Modius ?


----------



## Blacksun (Sep 21, 2021)

I see Yggdrasil is available in 3 versions.....  I'm even more confused as what to order to upgrade from bifrost2 ........

*Now Available in Three Flavors*
Yes. Now, Yggdrasil is available in three different “flavors,” including two that (gasp) cost less than the original, and provide higher performance! Yes, we know. We’re super weird.


*Yggdrasil Less is More. *Even better performance for lower cost. The most affordable Yggdrasil uses four TI DAC8812 16-bit D/A converters. Many think this is the best sounding flavor, hence less bits, more better…less is more.
*Yggdrasil More is Less. *The best-measuring integrated multibit DAC, ever. This Yggy uses four TI DAC11001 20-bit D/A converters. If you’re one who thinks multibit DACs can’t measure well, this one’s for you—approaching -120dB THD+N.
*Yggdrasil OG. *The Yggdrasil you’ve loved for years, same as it ever was. The original Yggdrasil with four AD5791 20-bit D/A converters remains in the line, because it provides an exceptionally engaging performance.


----------



## tafens

Me too. Now we just need someone that has all three versions of Yggdrasil and a Bifrost2 that can tell us how each compare against the Bifrost2 and the others..


----------



## tjdub

There are comparisons over on the yggi thread, I am waiting on the LiM card myself but it might be a long wait


----------



## UntilThen

You only need the original Yggdrasil and Bifrost 2.


----------



## theveterans

Based on what I read, LiM is the closest to BF2 though I would want something more different than than just get BF2’s signature on a larger case (soundstage and tonality wise). OG Yggdrasil would still be that DAC directly as an upgrade for BF2 (superior depth and micro dynamics and a slightly more incisive tone) while LiM is for those who are switching from typical DS sound and want the full flavor of R2R (minimum amount of digital hash/etch in the timbre and most natural sounding Yggdrasil flavor)


----------



## Alcophone

Turns out the issue I had with USB Audio Player PRO and Unison USB (no sound after a sample rate change) can be fixed by enabling the "Free USB bandwidth after playback" USB audio tweak.


----------



## cgb3

Flak said:


> I received a Bifrost 2 today that is currently paired with an Asgard 3...  Would going Bifrost 2 > Jotunheim 2 Balanced or Bifrost 2 > Lyr 3 give anything over the Bifrost 2 > Asgard 3?  If I went balanced with the Jotunheim 2 I'd also go balanced with the headphones (Nighthawk, SR2, OG Clear Pro).


First rule. Know one's equipment.

I suggest you listen to your current setup (with your new Bifrost), and identify shortcomings in your listening.

Balanced isn't always the "best". What are you trying to hear that you're not? What's missing?

As soon as you can identify, and articulate, your aspirations, you'll be ahead of the game.


----------



## tkddans (Sep 25, 2021)

I've been unable to get my Schiit stack working 

All my devices are plugged in, turned on, and cables plugged in exactly as they were the last time they were working for me. Has anyone had an issue with their Bifrost 2? That seems to be the start of the problem, as neither my THX 789 amp nor my Xduoo TA-30 tube amp are working off of the Bifrost 2 DAC.

Help please if possible! I'm running a YouTube channel for reviews and I can't review my new HD8XX headphones 



Bassic Needs said:


> The problem seems to be worse than stated. Its been 30 minutes of power cycling the phone ad BF2 and it still wont detect USB.
> Yesterday I contacted Schiit (no response yet) and ordered a new USB cable just in case. But unless there is a clear user error here I'll probably be asking for a replacement or a refund.


It seems possible I have an issue with connecting as well. My MacBook Pro detects the Schiit system though, but no sound is coming out of my headphones.


----------



## RickB

tkddans said:


> I've been unable to get my Schiit stack working
> 
> All my devices are plugged in, turned on, and cables plugged in exactly as they were the last time they were working for me. Has anyone had an issue with their Bifrost 2? That seems to be the start of the problem, as neither my THX 789 amp nor my Xduoo TA-30 tube amp are working off of the Bifrost 2 DAC.
> 
> ...


One thing to look at is to go to System Preferences/Sound and select the Bifrost. In the bottom right make sure Mute is not checked.


----------



## tkddans

RickB said:


> One thing to look at is to go to System Preferences/Sound and select the Bifrost. In the bottom right make sure Mute is not checked.


Did that too :/


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Make sure the BF2's input is set to where you think it should be.


----------



## tkddans

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Make sure the BF2's input is set to where you think it should be.


Tried all input settings using the button on the front. Double checked wires connecting from inputs to outputs. Not that I changed anything since it was working anyway. One day working….next day not.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Do the BF2's relays click at all if you change the bit rate and/or depth?  That was my clue my BF wasn't set to the correct input.  If you're sure your input is correct and you can't hear any relays, the BF either isn't responding or your source isn't transmitting.  Good luck!


----------



## tkddans

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Do the BF2's relays click at all if you change the bit rate and/or depth?  That was my clue my BF wasn't set to the correct input.  If you're sure your input is correct and you can't hear any relays, the BF either isn't responding or your source isn't transmitting.  Good luck!


I’ll try adjusting that in the system when I get home. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## tkddans

So silly. I went into Audio Midi Setup on the Mac...and the freakin mute box was checked. How does that even happen? 

And I just ordered a Topping DAC and it's already shipped! So silly.

I guess I'll just have to do a video comparing DAC's now! lol That could be interesting I suppose...


----------



## ssmith3046

I'm ready to upgrade from my entry level Schiit DACs.  My Modi multibit has been a favorite for a long time but I also like the Modius and Modi 3.  The Bifrost 2 is as high as I can go in price, I'm retired,  but now the Denafrips Ares II has piqued my interest.  If you were in my shoes what do you think you'd do?  I use an Asgard 3 amp and Focal Clear Pro headphones.  No streaming,  CD playback on an Audiolab transport.


----------



## shafat777

ssmith3046 said:


> I'm ready to upgrade from my entry level Schiit DACs.  My Modi multibit has been a favorite for a long time but I also like the Modius and Modi 3.  The Bifrost 2 is as high as I can go in price, I'm retired,  but now the Denafrips Ares II has piqued my interest.  If you were in my shoes what do you think you'd do?  I use an Asgard 3 amp and Focal Clear Pro headphones.  No streaming,  CD playback on an Audiolab transport.


I honestly would pick BF2. The main reason being you can hook up two amps simultaneously with the BF2 (XLR + RCA) while the Ares 2 only supports one at a time (XLR or RCA). Also, if you are gonna use the USB input, the BF2 because the unison is a better usb implementation. I use to own both and now I have the BF2. But i eventually bought a Denafrips Pontus 2. I dont think you can go wrong with the BF2.


----------



## ssmith3046

shafat777 said:


> I honestly would pick BF2. The main reason being you can hook up two amps simultaneously with the BF2 (XLR + RCA) while the Ares 2 only supports one at a time (XLR or RCA). Also, if you are gonna use the USB input, the BF2 because the unison is a better usb implementation. I use to own both and now I have the BF2. But i eventually bought a Denafrips Pontus 2. I dont think you can go wrong with the BF2.


Coax only. I'm leaning towards the Bifrost 2 because I own and have owned Schiit gear and have always been impressed with their equipment.  Thanks for your input.


----------



## Tralfaz

tkddans said:


> So silly. I went into Audio Midi Setup on the Mac...and the freakin mute box was checked. How does that even happen?
> 
> And I just ordered a Topping DAC and it's already shipped! So silly.
> 
> I guess I'll just have to do a video comparing DAC's now! lol That could be interesting I suppose...


This seems to be a somewhat common occurrence on Macs though I have no idea why it happens (I'm a victim of this, too).  It's frustrating and the fix isn't exactly intuitive but I'm glad to hear you've sorted it out and can start to enjoy your BF2.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

tkddans said:


> So silly. I went into Audio Midi Setup on the Mac...and the freakin mute box was checked. How does that even happen?
> 
> And I just ordered a Topping DAC and it's already shipped! So silly.
> 
> I guess I'll just have to do a video comparing DAC's now! lol That could be interesting I suppose...


It's good we can admit to being an idiot at times.  In my case, it's more like 99.9% of the time.  Prime example - I thought my brand new BF2 was DOA right out of the box because I couldn't hear anything whatsoever.  I _swore_ I had the input source selected correctly, but after Schiit's customer service told me to RTFM...again, I did. Well, um...why is this LED on and not _that_ one? After selecting the correct input, lo and behold wondrous sound! Hello, my name is Gumby. I'm an idiot.


----------



## tafens

Tralfaz said:


> This seems to be a somewhat common occurrence on Macs though I have no idea why it happens (I'm a victim of this, too).  It's frustrating and the fix isn't exactly intuitive but I'm glad to hear you've sorted it out and can start to enjoy your BF2.


I have never experienced this muself as far as I can remember (which, admittedly, may not be long) but I’ll definitely try to remember this. It’ll sure save me some frustration and nervosa when it happens


----------



## ssmith3046

shafat777 said:


> I honestly would pick BF2. The main reason being you can hook up two amps simultaneously with the BF2 (XLR + RCA) while the Ares 2 only supports one at a time (XLR or RCA). Also, if you are gonna use the USB input, the BF2 because the unison is a better usb implementation. I use to own both and now I have the BF2. But i eventually bought a Denafrips Pontus 2. I dont think you can go wrong with the BF2.


No XLR, just straight RCA to my Asgard 3.  Would you still go Bifrost 2 over the Ares II just based on sound quality.  Since I love what the Modi multibit does I think that the Bifrost 2 would be the next step.


----------



## shafat777

ssmith3046 said:


> No XLR, just straight RCA to my Asgard 3.  Would you still go Bifrost 2 over the Ares II just based on sound quality.  Since I love what the Modi multibit does I think that the Bifrost 2 would be the next step.


If you want to know about the sound, i think BF2 is dynamic and punchy while the Ares 2 is warm and gooey with a very laid back presentation. Since you have a SS amp, i think bf2 would suit you better as well. If you ever consider a tube amp, then the Ares 2 would sound pair better.


----------



## Alcophone (Oct 1, 2021)

GumbyDammit223 said:


> It's good we can admit to being an idiot at times.  In my case, it's more like 99.9% of the time.  Prime example - I thought my brand new BF2 was DOA right out of the box because I couldn't hear anything whatsoever.  I _swore_ I had the input source selected correctly, but after Schiit's customer service told me to RTFM...again, I did. Well, um...why is this LED on and not _that_ one? After selecting the correct input, lo and behold wondrous sound! Hello, my name is Gumby. I'm an idiot.


One thing that both the Modi Multibit and Bifrost 2 do (and not the Yggdrasil, I think, but I have to double check) is to move to the next input when losing the USB input. So if USB is the correct input in your case, it's quite possible that you had indeed USB selected, but maybe swapped cables or did something else that interrupted connectivity and *click* it's TOSLINK time.

*Edit:* I'm wrong, it's just that you can't select USB as the source on the Modi Multibit until there's a connection, but it stays on it even when removing the cable.


----------



## ssmith3046

shafat777 said:


> If you want to know about the sound, i think BF2 is dynamic and punchy while the Ares 2 is warm and gooey with a very laid back presentation. Since you have a SS amp, i think bf2 would suit you better as well. If you ever consider a tube amp, then the Ares 2 would sound pair better.


Thank you for your input. It sounds like the Bifrost 2 would be a good fit.  I find the Modi multibit to be pretty dynamic and punchy so the BF2 would probably just take everything up a few notches.


----------



## Neweymatt

GumbyDammit223 said:


> It's good we can admit to being an idiot at times.  In my case, it's more like 99.9% of the time.  Prime example - I thought my brand new BF2 was DOA right out of the box because I couldn't hear anything whatsoever.  I _swore_ I had the input source selected correctly, but after Schiit's customer service told me to RTFM...again, I did. Well, um...why is this LED on and not _that_ one? After selecting the correct input, lo and behold wondrous sound! Hello, my name is Gumby. I'm an idiot.


Ha Ha, I've freaked myself out a few times with one channel in a headphone or IEM 'OMG not working!!!', only to realise I hadn't plugged a cable in all the way somewhere...


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Alcophone said:


> One thing that both the Modi Multibit and Bifrost 2 do (and not the Yggdrasil, I think, but I have to double check) is to move to the next input when losing the USB input. So if USB is the correct input in your case, it's quite possible that you had indeed USB selected, but maybe swapped cables or did something else that interrupted connectivity and *click* it's TOSLINK time.


No.  For me, I really was an idiot.  Everything was plugged in correctly and powered up.  The computer recognized the DAC and was spitting out bits, but they weren't being converted to pressure waves.  For some reason I thought that after powering up, the BF would automatically select whichever source was connected to it, if there were only one.  Nope.  After RTFM...again I recognized my error in reasoning along with the incorrect input selection.  Once resolved, life was again gooder!


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Neweymatt said:


> Ha Ha, I've freaked myself out a few times with one channel in a headphone or IEM 'OMG not working!!!', only to realise I hadn't plugged a cable in all the way somewhere...


Been there, done that.  And when I tried to "fix" the problem by unplugging the cables and firmly reseating everything, I wondered why the channels were swapped when powered back up.  Well, Right = Red, Left = White.  I'm apparently an idiot, dyslexic, AND colorblind!


----------



## Alcophone

GumbyDammit223 said:


> No.  For me, I really was an idiot. [...] For some reason I thought that after powering up, the BF would automatically select whichever source was connected to it, if there were only one.





Just kidding, glad you got it working despite being challenged.


----------



## Alcophone

Correcting my previous statement, you can't select USB as the source on the Modi Multibit until there's a connection, but it stays on it even when removing the cable. For Bifrost 2 and Yggdrasil, you can always select USB as the source even without an active connection, and it stays on USB when removing the cable.


----------



## WaveTheory

I just put up a video review of the Bifrost 2 on my new YouTube channel:



Enjoy!


----------



## ssmith3046

WaveTheory said:


> I just put up a video review of the Bifrost 2 on my new YouTube channel:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!




I enjoyed your review.  I've own and have owned a lot of Shiit gear and think they are a top notch company.  The little Modi multibit is a favorite and I really couldn't discern a difference between the Bifrost multibit and the Modi multibit.  I'm ready to make the jump up to a better DAC and the Bifrost 2 has always been a DAC that I've wanted. The Denafrips Ares II has my interest now too but I think I'd be more comfortable buying from Schiit because I'm familiar with their products and customer service. 
I hate to put you on the spot but if you had to choose between the Bifrost 2 and Ares II which way would you go?  I'm a CD spinner and use an Audiolab 6000CDT transport and Asgard 3. The Focal Clear Pro headphones are my go to headphones.  I appreciate your input.


----------



## sp33ls

ssmith3046 said:


> I enjoyed your review.  I've own and have owned a lot of Shiit gear and think they are a top notch company.  The little Modi multibit is a favorite and I really couldn't discern a difference between the Bifrost multibit and the Modi multibit.  I'm ready to make the jump up to a better DAC and the Bifrost 2 has always been a DAC that I've wanted. The Denafrips Ares II has my interest now too but I think I'd be more comfortable buying from Schiit because I'm familiar with their products and customer service.
> I hate to put you on the spot but if you had to choose between the Bifrost 2 and Ares II which way would you go?  I'm a CD spinner and use an Audiolab 6000CDT transport and Asgard 3. The Focal Clear Pro headphones are my go to headphones.  I appreciate your input.


Honestly, I couldn't really tell a real difference in DACs until I got to Yggy. The BF2 was a subtle improvement to my ears compared to the Mimby (I immediately noticed a bit more sense of space and separation).

After going through this journey, I've come to the realization that if you really want to have a noticeable improvement with DACs and amps, you're better off saving your money for awhile longer and going with the level of gear that the TOTL Schiit stuff competes with.

The Yggy LiM may pair really nicely with your Focal Clear Pro cans. 
I know it's pricey, but I'm just telling you my experience. I know the law of diminishing returns is very real, but to my ears, most things in the mid-fi DAC/amp realm all kind of sound the same

I will say, the BF2 footprint is much more appropriate for my desk setup than the Yggy.


----------



## ssmith3046

sp33ls said:


> Honestly, I couldn't really tell a real difference in DACs until I got to Yggy. The BF2 was a subtle improvement to my ears compared to the Mimby (I immediately noticed a bit more sense of space and separation).
> 
> After going through this journey, I've come to the realization that if you really want to have a noticeable improvement with DACs and amps, you're better off saving your money for awhile longer and going with the level of gear that the TOTL Schiit stuff competes with.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input.  I'm retired so $700 to $800 is tops for me. WaveTheory seemed to think that was a noticeable difference in a $250 DAC, say a Modi Multibit, and the Bifrost 2.  It's too bad I'm not able to audition one like we did with stereo equipment 50 years ago but at least with Schiit if didn't care for the Bifrost 2 I could return it with a cost though.
I could tell a big improvement going from the Modi 3 to the Modi multibit but that's going from DS to multibit.  Also the Modius with the 4493 was an improvement in performance from the Modi 3.  I'll probably go with the Bifrost 2 and if I'm not happy I'll return it and go with the Ares II.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

ssmith3046 said:


> Thanks for your input.  I'm retired so $700 to $800 is tops for me. WaveTheory seemed to think that was a noticeable difference in a $250 DAC, say a Modi Multibit, and the Bifrost 2.  It's too bad I'm not able to audition one like we did with stereo equipment 50 years ago but at least with Schiit if didn't care for the Bifrost 2 I could return it with a cost though.
> I could tell a big improvement going from the Modi 3 to the Modi multibit but that's going from DS to multibit.  Also the Modius with the 4493 was an improvement in performance from the Modi 3.  I'll probably go with the Bifrost 2 and if I'm not happy I'll return it and go with the Ares II.



I don’t think you’ll be returning it


----------



## ssmith3046

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> I don’t think you’ll be returning it


You're probably right!


----------



## sp33ls

Yeah, if $700 is your budget, then the BF2 is a great option.

I didn't mean to deter you, only sharing my experiences  The biggest difference to my ears is indeed jumping between topologies (DS and R2R). When I compared a $1500 and $300 DS, I could by no means honestly recommend the $1500.

I did indeed notice an improvement with BF2 over my Modi Multibit. It was an "Okay, yeah, this is _niiice_."
But, when I first tried the Yggy, it was more of a "Wow!" However, you're paying over double for that slight (relative) improvement.

I could happily live with the BF2 as my end-game DAC. The upgradeability is a huge selling point, IMO, in terms of the total cost of ownership over the years. It does everything I'd want, and without costing a kidney to do so.

I also don't think you'll be returning it.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Oct 4, 2021)

sp33ls said:


> Yeah, if $700 is your budget, then the BF2 is a great option.
> 
> I didn't mean to deter you, only sharing my experiences  The biggest difference to my ears is indeed jumping between topologies (DS and R2R). When I compared a $1500 and $300 DS, I could by no means honestly recommend the $1500.
> 
> ...


I didn't think you were trying to deter me and I really appreciate your feedback. If I was still working the Yggy would be MINE!
Having less disposable income is still better than working  plus there's always new music to buy.


----------



## WaveTheory

ssmith3046 said:


> I enjoyed your review.  I've own and have owned a lot of Shiit gear and think they are a top notch company.  The little Modi multibit is a favorite and I really couldn't discern a difference between the Bifrost multibit and the Modi multibit.  I'm ready to make the jump up to a better DAC and the Bifrost 2 has always been a DAC that I've wanted. The Denafrips Ares II has my interest now too but I think I'd be more comfortable buying from Schiit because I'm familiar with their products and customer service.
> I hate to put you on the spot but if you had to choose between the Bifrost 2 and Ares II which way would you go?  I'm a CD spinner and use an Audiolab 6000CDT transport and Asgard 3. The Focal Clear Pro headphones are my go to headphones.  I appreciate your input.



Thanks! In my written review (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews) I did a compare b/w the 2 dacs. The BF2 was the winner in my use case, but just barely. Ares II is a fine DAC and I fault no one for picking it over BF2 either. My one hesitation is that I found the BF2 to be better performing via its USB input than SPDIF. However, that was using my motherboard's SPDIF output which is surely noisy and jitter-laden. I briefly tried BF2's coax input using a Singxer SU-2 as the USB interface (report here) and found that with a higher quality SPDIF output, the BF2 can sound amazing again. My guess is the SPDIF output on your 6000CDT is pretty good and connecting it to BF2 via SPDIF is likely at least equal to the BF2's performance when using USB and a computer. I know that's not an answer to your question, but just some things to think about. Good luck!


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Just curious if the transformer hums on anyone's Bifrost 2? Mine is very loud. My Asgard 3 transformer also hums, but I can't hear it from my computer chair like I can with my Bifrost 2..


----------



## ssmith3046

WaveTheory said:


> Thanks! In my written review (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.24927/reviews) I did a compare b/w the 2 dacs. The BF2 was the winner in my use case, but just barely. Ares II is a fine DAC and I fault no one for picking it over BF2 either. My one hesitation is that I found the BF2 to be better performing via its USB input than SPDIF. However, that was using my motherboard's SPDIF output which is surely noisy and jitter-laden. I briefly tried BF2's coax input using a Singxer SU-2 as the USB interface (report here) and found that with a higher quality SPDIF output, the BF2 can sound amazing again. My guess is the SPDIF output on your 6000CDT is pretty good and connecting it to BF2 via SPDIF is likely at least equal to the BF2's performance when using USB and a computer. I know that's not an answer to your question, but just some things to think about. Good luck!


Thank you, there's no correct answer to my questions really and I appreciate your input very much because that's as close to an answer I'll find.  Also thanks for the link to your written review. I'll read it now. I guess you did answer one question that I had and your answer is, yes, there is a noticable difference in performance between a $250 DAC and a $700 one. It sounds like the BF2 does everything that I like about my Modi multibit just much better.  Thanks again!


----------



## Alcophone

ColdsnapBry said:


> Just curious if the transformer hums on anyone's Bifrost 2? Mine is very loud. My Asgard 3 transformer also hums, but I can't hear it from my computer chair like I can with my Bifrost 2..


Never heard it make a sound except for relay clicks.
The Ragnarok 2 and Vidar up close have a bit of transformer hum, but not the Freya S, Jotunheim 1, Modi Multibit, Bifrost 2 or Yggdrasil, in my experience.

Can you measure your line voltage? Might be interesting.

According to the iFi DC blocker page, a DC offset in your AC mains can cause transformer hum, which the DC blocker is supposed to fix. I have no experience with it.


----------



## shafat777

I am going to post my imperssions of the BF2 vs Yggydrasil later in the week. Just received my Yggy and i think i m gonna have to part ways with my Bf2 but i can honestly say, for the price, you cant beat this dac. Period.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Alcophone said:


> Never heard it make a sound except for relay clicks.
> The Ragnarok 2 and Vidar up close have a bit of transformer hum, but not the Freya S, Jotunheim 1, Modi Multibit, Bifrost 2 or Yggdrasil, in my experience.
> 
> Can you measure your line voltage? Might be interesting.
> ...



Ok, yea I bought a DC blocker. Just waiting on delivery. That would be great if it fixes that.


----------



## Smoothstereo

ColdsnapBry said:


> Just curious if the transformer hums on anyone's Bifrost 2? Mine is very loud. My Asgard 3 transformer also hums, but I can't hear it from my computer chair like I can with my Bifrost 2..


No hum on my BF2 (and my Jot2 if that matters). Dead silent in my set up. Hope the DC Blocker works out.


----------



## tafens

ColdsnapBry said:


> Just curious if the transformer hums on anyone's Bifrost 2? Mine is very loud. My Asgard 3 transformer also hums, but I can't hear it from my computer chair like I can with my Bifrost 2..


I can hear a faint hum putting my ear within two inches from the front plate of the BF2 where the Schiit logo is, so very faint but it is there. My Lyr3 that is plugged in to the same outlet has no hum.


----------



## ctrlm

tafens said:


> I can hear a faint hum putting my ear within two inches from the front plate of the BF2 where the Schiit logo is



Same here - there is a definite hum in the BF2, I have a few other DACs and get no noise from them at all. It's not a big deal but it is there.

I also have a DC blocker and tried that with it - no difference.


----------



## Alcophone

Okay, when I get super close, I can hear a hum as well. I don't think that's an issue at all. But if I could hear it from 2+ ft away, I wouldn't like that either when using it as a desktop DAC.

I'd experiment with pushing hard on the case, putting something heavy on it, putting it on isolation feet, holding it in the ear from each of the corners, etc. etc. to see if it's maybe some sort of resonance. Maybe the cover screws aren't tight enough, maybe the transformer needs to be tightened down more. I don't know how easy it is to open up. Probably not hard since there is no volume knob or hidden screws.

But no harm in reaching out to Schiit and asking them what they suggest.


----------



## tafens

ctrlm said:


> Same here - there is a definite hum in the BF2, I have a few other DACs and get no noise from them at all. It's not a big deal but it is there.
> 
> I also have a DC blocker and tried that with it - no difference.


I think the amount of hum we have is in the normal range for the kind of build it is (heavy transformer bolted to metal chassis).
I usually sit just over one foot away from it and don’t hear the hum at all (even in a silent room), only when putting my ear really close can I hear it, so I have no problems with it at all.

That said, if the hum is excessive, one can always contact Schiit about it. They have been known by accounts here in the forums to have replaced units with loud transformer hum before.


----------



## Rattle

I never noticed any hum from my BF2. 1.5 years old.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

Thanks for the input all


----------



## chrisnyc75

Fellow Schiitheads, why does my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra) not recognize Bifrost 2?  It recognizes various dongle dacs immediately, but when I connect to Bifrost 2, nothing.


----------



## Smoothstereo

chrisnyc75 said:


> Fellow Schiitheads, why does my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra) not recognize Bifrost 2?  It recognizes various dongle dacs immediately, but when I connect to Bifrost 2, nothing.


What audio app you using? Maybe that app needs update from Google store? I use USB Audio Player Pro and BF2 works well with both of my phones, Samsung S7 edge and S10+.


----------



## theveterans

chrisnyc75 said:


> Fellow Schiitheads, why does my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra) not recognize Bifrost 2?  It recognizes various dongle dacs immediately, but when I connect to Bifrost 2, nothing.



Unison does not have the "low power flag" that lets low power devices pass through data and power. To circumvent this, get a self-powered USB hub and you should be good to go


----------



## chrisnyc75

Smoothstereo said:


> What audio app you using? Maybe that app needs update from Google store? I use USB Audio Player Pro and BF2 works well with both of my phones, Samsung S7 edge and S10+.


I use UAPP, too.  No luck getting the phone to recognize BF2 with or without the app - it generally recognizes USB dongle dacs immediately either way.



theveterans said:


> Unison does not have the "low power flag" that lets low power devices pass through data and power. To circumvent this, get a self-powered USB hub and you should be good to go


Interesting.  If this was the problem, though, wouldn't this prohibit everyone from connecting a phone directly to Bifrost 2?  Is this a known thing and I just somehow missed it?


----------



## theveterans

chrisnyc75 said:


> Interesting. If this was the problem, though, wouldn't this prohibit everyone from connecting a phone directly to Bifrost 2? Is this a known thing and I just somehow missed it?



Happens to my iPhone 12 when connected directly but with iUSB 3.0 hub, iPhone recognizes Bifrost 2 without issues whatsoever


----------



## chrisnyc75

theveterans said:


> Happens to my iPhone 12 when connected directly but with iUSB 3.0 hub, iPhone recognizes Bifrost 2 without issues whatsoever


Interesting, thanks.


----------



## Alcophone

I have used the Bifrost 2 with a Samsung Galaxy S10+ (with UAPP, use the "Free USB bandwidth after playback" to prevent issues once you switch to a different sample rate) and with an iPad with the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter. Worked just like a Modi Multibit and iFi ZEN DAC Signature. A Creative Sound Blaster E5 did not work without using a powered hub inbetween, but that one has an internal battery it tries to charge.


----------



## Alcophone

chrisnyc75 said:


> Fellow Schiitheads, why does my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy Note 20 Ultra) not recognize Bifrost 2?  It recognizes various dongle dacs immediately, but when I connect to Bifrost 2, nothing.


Do any of the dongle DACs support sample rates beyond 96 kHz? If not it's possible that they all use USB 1 audio instead of USB 2, maybe USB 2 Audio (UAC-2) does not work on the Note 20 Ultra somehow?

There's also this UAPP setting under USB audio tweaks.


----------



## valkyrieorion

Thinking of getting the BF2 to pair with Adam A5x speakers on my desk. Can I control the volume though windows for now until I can also get a Jot 2 to use as a pre amp (I guess I could also use the Adam speaker volume dial now that I think of it) I’ve thought of just getting the Jot 2 with a dac module but I think I like the option of having USB or optical inputs long term.


----------



## Ripper2860

You can control volume via Windows if you do not set the DAC for EXCLUSIVE MODE in Windows.  That would mean your music playback will not be bit perfect.   I'd use the volume on the speakers and set the DAC for exclusive mode.  Why run your music though the whole Windows music stack and resample, etc.


----------



## shafat777 (Oct 11, 2021)

I have a black color bf2 in excellent condition for sale in the classified section. Plz pm if anyone is interested


----------



## Maelob

For any future buyers with an older IMAC out there, so far I've owned the bit frost for about 5 months, no issues with connectivity or stability, powering on and of the computer no issues with detecting it, i have an IFI nano usb device between the IMAC and BITFROST and in the past with previous DACs i would loose detection and i would have to unplug and plug the usb cable. But with the bit frost think i have done it only once. Very stable. For those considering the Denafrips DACs those things are a nightmare with a MAC, my computer would freeze all the time, and it was a pain. There was a workaround with some software update but i had to be done with a PC. Long story short, i got fed up with the Aries and just sold it. The BITFROST has been fire an forget its there, not issues. And i already got used to the little clicking when changing sample rates. I highly recommend this dac with a mac. just my two cents.


----------



## 2ndWedge

Maelob said:


> For any future buyers with an older IMAC out there, so far I've owned the bit frost for about 5 months, no issues with connectivity or stability, powering on and of the computer no issues with detecting it, i have an IFI nano usb device between the IMAC and BITFROST and in the past with previous DACs i would loose detection and i would have to unplug and plug the usb cable. But with the bit frost think i have done it only once. Very stable. For those considering the Denafrips DACs those things are a nightmare with a MAC, my computer would freeze all the time, and it was a pain. There was a workaround with some software update but i had to be done with a PC. Long story short, i got fed up with the Aries and just sold it. The BITFROST has been fire an forget its there, not issues. And i already got used to the little clicking when changing sample rates. I highly recommend this dac with a mac. just my two cents.


Thanks for the advice, just reaffirms my decision to upgrade my old Bifrost with the $200 Unison USB board for my 2012 mac mini running Audirvans (Ok, so there was shipping from Toronto to LA, insuring the shipping, shipping it back, duty, Ontario taxes and the tolls to drive to FEDEX distribution centre because they said I wasn't home - which I was. So with the exchange rate about $420 Canadian) and worth every penny.  The sound signature is exactly what our members here said it would be.  What I like about upgrading a DAC is that it improves everything downstream.  My integrated PrimaLuna sounds better, my Totem Sttaf floorstanders sound better, my Schiit Magni sounds better and so do my headphones. This freed up some Schiit which I moved upstairs to create a simple but good system for the family - Spotify fans.  Using a Xaomi Mi-Box-S ($89) as a streamer and cleaning up its USB (upscaled to 96) output with my Schiit Eitr and adding a Sys as my volume limiter (they use the volume on the Mi-Box remote and connected to an IOTA refurbished PA3 power amp (sorry Schiit, couldn't wait for your entry level power amp and this one is really quite good - better than my PrimaLuna in many ways) and connecting the Mi-Box HDMI to the TV (family likes to see Spotify album covers, etc.) this is a good way to use up my Schiit made surplus by this Unison upgrade.  And the Loki mini is no longer needed with the Bifrost due to the new sound signature so it went between the phono preamp and Primaluna.  I am so totally pleased.


----------



## ssmith3046

I was going to order a Bifrost 2 today but they're back to a four to six week wait.  I should have ordered yesterday.  Now I'm leaning towards the Ares II.


----------



## shafat777

ssmith3046 said:


> I was going to order a Bifrost 2 today but they're back to a four to six week wait.  I should have ordered yesterday.  Now I'm leaning towards the Ares II.


I have a bf2 for sale in excellent condition if you're interested. Black. 4 months old.


----------



## ssmith3046

shafat777 said:


> I have a bf2 for sale in excellent condition if you're interested. Black. 4 months old.


Thank you for letting me know but I ordered the Ares II.  Now that the wait is back on yours should sell quickly.


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> You can control volume via Windows if you do not set the DAC for EXCLUSIVE MODE in Windows.  That would mean your music playback will not be bit perfect.   I'd use the volume on the speakers and set the DAC for exclusive mode.  Why run your music though the whole Windows music stack and resample, etc.


Why?

Wouldn't that preclude one using a software EQ? (I love my soft EQ).

Front end to the APO EQ (Windows): https://sourceforge.net/projects/peace-equalizer-apo-extension/

Windows APO EQ: https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/


----------



## Alcophone

cgb3 said:


> Why?
> 
> Wouldn't that preclude one using a software EQ? (I love my soft EQ).
> 
> ...


True.



> - the application must not bypass the system effect infrastructure
> (APIs like ASIO or WASAPI exclusive mode can not be used)


(https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/)


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 15, 2021)

cgb3 said:


> Why?
> 
> Wouldn't that preclude one using a software EQ? (I love my soft EQ).
> 
> ...


Yes, it would.   I'm not a fan of SW EQ.  No compelling argument against it.  It's just not my thing.  😀

And yes, I've tried APO EQ. I'm an old school purist. Got my 2 channel and HP rigs dialed in to my liking and even retired my Loki.


----------



## valkyrieorion

Received my BF2 today and couldn't be happier so far getting to listen this evening. Can't wait to get the Jot 2 whenever it finally ships.


----------



## WaveTheory

valkyrieorion said:


> Received my BF2 today and couldn't be happier so far getting to listen this evening. Can't wait to get the Jot 2 whenever it finally ships.


Very nice! Glad you're enjoying. What dac(s) are you coming from? (apologies if that's been answered...long thread)


----------



## valkyrieorion

WaveTheory said:


> Very nice! Glad you're enjoying. What dac(s) are you coming from? (apologies if that's been answered...long thread)


I had a JDS element II for a bit and then had bounced between a Quad Vena, NAD D 3045 and Yamaha WXA50 integrated amps in my setups before deciding to go with active speakers. This is my first real separate DAC( I guess I also had creative sound blaster cards over the years also)


----------



## davidfrance (Oct 22, 2021)

My real desire was to buy the Bifrost 2 after the end of October, and I saw the delivery dates were "4 to 6 weeks" (or something like that, maybe 2 to 4), so I figured, "order it now" ... so I ordered it yesterday. But then I got an email last night, ... it will arrive on Monday, the 25th, FedEx says.

No big problem, even good news, in a way.


----------



## ShenaRingo326

similar for me, website said 4-6 weeks when i ordered on Fri Oct 15 and it was shipped next day and arrived on Mon Oct 18


----------



## valkyrieorion

Sadly had to ship it back. Kept dropping a signal and not being detected even after unplugging it. Tried a few USB cables and ports but no joy. I dunno every other DAC I’ve had on same rig never had an issue so maybe it was a conflict with other gear.


----------



## cgb3 (Oct 23, 2021)

ShenaRingo326 said:


> similar for me, website said 4-6 weeks when i ordered on Fri Oct 15 and it was shipped next day and arrived on Mon Oct 18


I ordered my Bifrost 2 early Jan. /21. Listed as back ordered, with several weeks wait. Yea, get my order in the queue! Shipped within the week.

My speculation (not really, it's the way any mail order/internet business works). Schiit receives many orders, from all parts of the world. The computer generated delivery estimate is based on all incoming orders in the queue being genuine. It's also a sales gimmick. "You can't buy X product at any price... it's unavailable. Better get that order in... first come, first served."

Secondary inspection, of methods of payment, delivery addresses, etc., probably knocks out many orders. A valid order moves up rapidly.


----------



## davidfrance

Well, it arrived fine, and it works fine.  I am happy that I got it. At least now I can really participate in the conversation.


----------



## Tralfaz

Since when did not owning a piece of gear prevent an audiophile from having an opinion about it?


----------



## davidfrance

Tralfaz said:


> Since when did not owning a piece of gear prevent an audiophile from having an opinion about it?


Everyone was saying my Modi 3+ was not as great as the Bifrost 2, and only having heard the Modi 3+, I wasn’t well positioned to talk about what I heard with my own ears.


----------



## Friskyseal

davidfrance said:


> Everyone was saying my Modi 3+ was not as great as the Bifrost 2, and only having heard the Modi 3+, I wasn’t well positioned to talk about what I heard with my own ears.



Well, start by telling us how it compares to Modi 3+ so far!


----------



## ssmith3046

I hope it's better.  Cost 600 more.


----------



## davidfrance (Oct 26, 2021)

Friskyseal said:


> Well, start by telling us how it compares to Modi 3+ so far!


Part of me is reluctant to quantify it, but yet numbers are so much more precise than words. With hesitation, after less than one day, not too sure, I would say that 4 to 6 percent of what the Modi 3+ renders as "mush", a mush of noise, is rendered as "detail" by the Bifrost 2.

Obviously, the Modi 3+ is the bargain, and the Bifrost 2 is the better performing DAC.

Maybe the dynamic range (the ability to jump from soft to loud) is better from the Bifrost 2 than from the Modi 3+.

To really do this right, one needs an A/B switch, then the differences are easier to hear. Our memories of sound quality are weak. And I don't have an A/B switch, and I don't want to get one. But, as the Modi 3+ did when it arrived, the Bifrost 2 is giving me moments when I hear new details that I didn't hear with the Modi 3+. Not constantly, but from time to time.

The Bifrost 2 is better, but the Modi 3+ is not a bad DAC.

I am testing with a Lyr 3 and Sennheiser HD660S headphones.


----------



## ssmith3046

For a hundred bucks the Modi 3 is a bargain. In my opinion the Modius is much better for a hundred more.  The Mimby is still my favorite.  I was going to order a Bifrost 2 for my birthday last week but saw the wait list and didn't do it. I'm thinking about the Ares II but I own and have owned a lot of Schiit.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

Anyone that owned the Modius that upgraded to BF2 willing to share their thoughts? Few months ago I told myself I wouldn't go crazy on $$$ for a DAC yet here I am curious


----------



## chrisnyc75

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Few months ago I told myself I wouldn't go crazy on $$$ for a DAC yet here I am curious


Oh, we've all been there.  Famous last words. lol


----------



## carbonF1

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Anyone that owned the Modius that upgraded to BF2 willing to share their thoughts? Few months ago I told myself I wouldn't go crazy on $$$ for a DAC yet here I am curious



Well worth the money. I did not think a DAC would make such a noticeable difference, but then I had never heard the BF2 nor a multibit DAC before. My main reason for getting a Modius in the first place was primarily form factor and also because I too had sticker shock at the Bifrost price . I have followed the conventional wisdom of headphones > amp > DAC > everything else including power > cables as far as order of importance, and while I still think that's mostly true, being that I stream exclusively from my PC using Amazon Music HD I think the DAC is worth some extra consideration, doing the heavy lifting and all. Looking back I either should have bought a Modi 3+ instead of Modius, or just gone right for BF2.

No ragrats.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

carbonF1 said:


> Well worth the money. I did not think a DAC would make such a noticeable difference, but then I had never heard the BF2 nor a multibit DAC before. My main reason for getting a Modius in the first place was primarily form factor and also because I too had sticker shock at the Bifrost price . I have followed the conventional wisdom of headphones > amp > DAC > everything else including power > cables as far as order of importance, and while I still think that's mostly true, being that I stream exclusively from my PC using Amazon Music HD I think the DAC is worth some extra consideration, doing the heavy lifting and all. Looking back I either should have bought a Modi 3+ instead of Modius, or just gone right for BF2.
> 
> No ragrats.


Crap, not what my wallet wanted to hear haha. Thanks for the info. I've been in the hobby about a year and a half and have gone through a fairly quick transition from heresy/modi3+  -> magnius/modius -> singxer/modius. Love my lcd2's so luckily no burning itch for new headphones yet. BF2 was on the radar but it always seemed like a stretch. I've gone through several reviews and have read what others experiences are with this DAC and by all accounts it seems like a winner. Might bite the bullet and just be "done" with the upgradeitis.


----------



## Btarr

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Crap, not what my wallet wanted to hear haha. Thanks for the info. I've been in the hobby about a year and a half and have gone through a fairly quick transition from heresy/modi3+  -> magnius/modius -> singxer/modius. Love my lcd2's so luckily no burning itch for new headphones yet. BF2 was on the radar but it always seemed like a stretch. I've gone through several reviews and have read what others experiences are with this DAC and by all accounts it seems like a winner. Might bite the bullet and just be "done" with the upgradeitis.


I went from the Mac usb---> Schiit WYRD (USB "De-Crapifier")--->Modi Multi Bit (Balanced)---> Freya+ ---> active speakers.  
SOLD ALL THE Schiit, because of the COVID Economy - had to make rent.   Regretted the sale, got my $hit back together and bought some better Schiit along the way: 
The BiFrost2 --->(new replacement) Freya+--->(same old CHI-FI Swann M300) Active speakers....and its completely worth it!  
If you can utilize the balanced outs on the Bifrost2 do that!  
Is too late for you, you are already wondering about the Bifrost2, now NEED to know.  Don't worry its a proper and in this world, modest step up.


----------



## prymortal

Just got my Bifrost 2 today, 2 weeks total to arrive from order. Actually my 3rd time comparing to D90 & D90se, I still think they sound similar "enough" in many ways. Definitely not a upgrade from the Topping D90, but I would recommend the bifrost over the D90 unless you only listen to electronic music.
The D90 does have some more sub-bass if you have the right headphones (Arya shows you it more than the HE6se for example). But the presentation of the Bifrost is just enjoyable & smooth, voices very natural & true, without the treble glare in cymabls or picky quality source issues (although that bass [punch] boost is something i'm still adjusting to).


----------



## Clairezy

I enjoyed the sound at the time but then jumped to a different dac as I found it too warm for my preferences


----------



## buson160man (Nov 6, 2021)

I have a Bifrost 2 I was using on my computer set up and I recently purchased a Sonnet Morpheus Dac/ Preamp for my main rig in the living room. I boxed up and traded my Burson conductor 3 ref dac/amp/preamp in on it. So temporarily I moved my Bifrost 2 to the Burson Ha-160 headphone amp ( sounds more analog like and musical than the newer burson Conductor 3 Ref as a headphone amp) in my main rig main rig and warmed it up for 24 hours. Listened yesterday to it and I have to say the Bifrost 2 hits way above its price in performance. It sounds wonderfully musical has pretty respectable weight and tonality while it might not be the detail master the Burson conductor 3 ref is the Bifrost 2 is a very engaging listen. It has a really nicely balanced musicality to it that makes for engagingly long listening sessions. It is pretty dynamic as well. I have received my Sonnet Moropheus dac but the Bifrost 2 is so engaging I am still enjoying it.


----------



## PoloJCP

prymortal said:


> Just got my Bifrost 2 today, 2 weeks total to arrive from order. Actually my 3rd time comparing to D90 & D90se, I still think they sound similar "enough" in many ways. Definitely not a upgrade from the Topping D90, but I would recommend the bifrost over the D90 unless you only listen to electronic music.
> The D90 does have some more sub-bass if you have the right headphones (Arya shows you it more than the HE6se for example). But the presentation of the Bifrost is just enjoyable & smooth, voices very natural & true, without the treble glare in cymabls or picky quality source issues (although that bass [punch] boost is something i'm still adjusting to).


I agree with you completely, I have the BF2 and RME ADI-2 FS. The differences are minor, but for "certain" songs I like the BF2 just slightly more, especially vocal / jazz. For popular pop songs, I cannot tell the difference too much. But, if I were to ask again, I would still buy the BF2, having 2DACs > 1DAC


----------



## prymortal (Nov 11, 2021)

Breaking it in for a review later on this week.


----------



## buson160man (Nov 7, 2021)

I have been enjoying the bifrost 2 in my main rig for a few days. I tried a couple of different isolation feet under it yesterday but I found some of the magic that made the listening so engaging seemed to vanish. Most of the time isolation feet do have a positive effect on the sound but at least in my set up the use of isolation feet seemed to detract from the engagingly musical production of the Bifrost 2. I just bought the sonnet digital Morpheus dac. After hearing how engaging the Bifrost 2 is maybe I should have considered the big boy Schiit dac.


----------



## Tralfaz (Nov 7, 2021)

buson160man said:


> I have been enjoying the bifrost 2 in my main rig for a few days. I tried a couple of different isolation feet under it yesterday but I found some of the magic that made the listening so engaging seemed to vanish. Most of the time isolation feet do have a positive effect on the sound but at least in my set up the use of isolation feet seemed to detract from the engagingly musical production of the Bifrost 2. I just bought the sonnet digital Morpheus dac. After hearing how engaging the Bifrost 2 is maybe I should have considered the big boy Schiit dac.


If you think isolation feet make a difference, wait until you start swapping USB cables.  I have found they have a significant effect on the sound of the Bifrost 2.


----------



## MacMan31

Tralfaz said:


> If you think isolation feet make a difference, wait until you start swapping USB cables.  I have found they have a significant effect on the sound of the Bifrost 2.



Don't get me curious about swapping cables. I don't want to end up paying $100 or more for a cable. 

Also I feel like I have asked this before. Maybe I did somewhere else. But has anyone here compared the Bifrost II with the Denafrips Ares II?


----------



## MacMan31

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> I finally decided to put my Feet/Spikes on the right way and put it where I "think" might be their permanent home, This week at least   !
> After all it's not like I can't take them off and put other/or the original feet back on.
> 
> Here's a couple pics for those that might be thinking about these.
> ...



That is quite the awesome looking stack. Do you think the component separation helps with heat? My BF2 gets quite warm. It's stacked under a Valhalla II.


----------



## davidfrance

MacMan31 said:


> That is quite the awesome looking stack. Do you think the component separation helps with heat? My BF2 gets quite warm. It's stacked under a Valhalla II.


My guess is that your BF2 would not get quite warm if it wasn’t stacked under the Valhalla II.


----------



## MacMan31

davidfrance said:


> My guess is that your BF2 would not get quite warm if it wasn’t stacked under the Valhalla II.



Possibly true. I did put aftermarket feet under each component. But perhaps I should somehow place them further apart. Given space constraints I would still want them stacked. Even if I had a shelf or taller "feet" between them.


----------



## Neweymatt

MacMan31 said:


> Don't get me curious about swapping cables. I don't want to end up paying $100 or more for a cable.
> 
> Also I feel like I have asked this before. Maybe I did somewhere else. But has anyone here compared the Bifrost II with the Denafrips Ares II?


I haven't but MidFiGuy did, including ADI2, Gumby, Qutest, Topping and maybe a few more...  



My takeaways from this:
-I'd be very happy with any of them
-BF2 is best fit for me for now, based on its price/performance and my preference for a somewhat warmer signature.
-I'm very Chord-curious, having had a quick demo of a Qutest I will almost certainly get one of their DACs at some stage..


----------



## MacMan31

Neweymatt said:


> I haven't but MidFiGuy did, including ADI2, Gumby, Qutest, Topping and maybe a few more...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I currently have the BF2 but I'm still curious about the Ares II. I've had a few other DACs in the past such as the Drop SDAC-B, Topping D70 and Drop Airist R2R. One of my reason (and I'm sure true for many others as well) for getting the BF2 is that it stacks perfectly with my Valhalla II. I have never had any Chord products. Aside from the Mojo their other DACs seem pretty expensive. The "law of diminishing return" comes to mind.


----------



## prymortal

MacMan31 said:


> Don't get me curious about swapping cables. I don't want to end up paying $100 or more for a cable.
> 
> Also I feel like I have asked this before. Maybe I did somewhere else. But has anyone here compared the Bifrost II with the Denafrips Ares II?


----------



## ColdsnapBry

I was first stratled by this when turning on my Bifrst 2 (from the switch in th eback), it shunts a little and makes a noise that sounds like a vibration / electrical noise? Anyone elses? The Schiit stuff I tried just turns on silently.


----------



## MacMan31

prymortal said:


>




I think I have seen that review before. However I was not asking if there was reviews on YT or other places. I was asking if anyone here in this thread have done the comparison. But I guess none of you have.


----------



## ColdsnapBry

MacMan31 said:


> I think I have seen that review before. However I was not asking if there was reviews on YT or other places. I was asking if anyone here in this thread have done the comparison. But I guess none of you have.



I've never heard the Ares, so I shouldn't even be commenting on it. But I just feel like those sort of super smooth R2R DACs are best used in speaker setups since you have a subwoofer. I get the impression that something like that would be too smooth for headphones, but what do I know!


----------



## RickB

ColdsnapBry said:


> I was first stratled by this when turning on my Bifrst 2 (from the switch in th eback), it shunts a little and makes a noise that sounds like a vibration / electrical noise? Anyone elses? The Schiit stuff I tried just turns on silently.


This is normal. It is a muting relay.


----------



## prymortal (Nov 11, 2021)

The Jot2 arrived & they pair very well together.


----------



## blackdragon87

prymortal said:


> The Jot2 arrived & they pair very well together.



i agree, has been my main dac and amp now for about a year


----------



## SlothRock

Anyone here using a Verite Closed w/ Bifrost 2? If so, what amp are you pairing with the Bifrost and how are you liking it? Just ordered the Verite Closed today on the B-stock sale and only have a magni/modi stack right now so looking to upgrade


----------



## shafat777 (Nov 27, 2021)

SlothRock said:


> Anyone here using a Verite Closed w/ Bifrost 2? If so, what amp are you pairing with the Bifrost and how are you liking it? Just ordered the Verite Closed today on the B-stock sale and only have a magni/modi stack right now so looking to upgrade


I used to have a BF2 dac that i used with my VC before i upgraded to the Yggy. At that time, i was using my GSX-mini for SS and Liquid Platinum for tube amp. Both of these synergize with the VC really well. ZMF cans love OTL amp to sound their best, but my cap modded LP was no slouch. The mini is a wamer laid back SS amp while the LP was really dynamic and punchy


----------



## automojo (Nov 27, 2021)

A former owner of a BFMB1-Modi-plus more then a few R2r-R2R NOS. Great dac's-but was looking for a better fit.
Recently purchased a BF2-along with a Modi3+ for my newly combined 1.5 system
The BF2 is exactly what I was looking for
Reminds me of a well broken in A/T 120E/T-engaging, detailed- easy to listen to-with pretty much zero fatigue!
The Unison USB is better then GEN 5 IMHO. No apparent artifacts.
Not trying to influence anyone-but a good USB cable is a plus-I hear the difference as added smoothness-and much easier to hear details.
Don't ask me why-it just works!
Run my XM tuner through the optical-XM sounds better then I have ever heard XM. Same thing a good optical cable improves the experience-why-who knows? Ask the guy that makes it!!
IMHO Schiit has done a excellent job of refining this DAC-and really a bargain IMHO given the performance I'm hearing.
The Modi3+ certainly is as well (are you kidding me still $99!?) -and provides a similar smooth-but different sound. Certainly, would not be out of place in any system including a high end-IMHO.
Also worthy of good cables.
They both make it easy to forget about them-and make it about the music.
Always been a DIY'r. Modded AMT3's Infinity RSiiia's-etc.
Schiit IMHO get's this-providing great sound for the dollar ratio.
A rarity in the US manufactured audio market-but even the imports as well.
Being self employed for 25+ years-I have to admire, and agree with their obvious philosophy of providing exceptional products that feature way above the norm performance/per dollar spent ratio. Even if they aren't a good fit for me-you can see and hear it.
That's a very big deal IMHO-as it's a continuous goal/way of thinking that keeps your business sustainable-among a million other things of course!
Very cool stuff-and I'm glad they made a few things I really really enjoy now-and are keepers!


----------



## ckhirnigs113 (Dec 3, 2021)

SlothRock said:


> Anyone here using a Verite Closed w/ Bifrost 2? If so, what amp are you pairing with the Bifrost and how are you liking it? Just ordered the Verite Closed today on the B-stock sale and only have a magni/modi stack right now so looking to upgrade


I’m on my second VC now (just recently switched from Ash to Olive) and have used both with a BF2 exclusively. My two amps are the Quicksilver Headphone Amp and the SW51+. I can heartily recommend either with your VC/BF2.


----------



## duranxv

SlothRock said:


> Anyone here using a Verite Closed w/ Bifrost 2? If so, what amp are you pairing with the Bifrost and how are you liking it? Just ordered the Verite Closed today on the B-stock sale and only have a magni/modi stack right now so looking to upgrade



Yes.  I pair it with a Woo Audio WA22 tube amp and a Sparkos Aries SS amp.  The BF2 pairs well!

I'll actually be selling my BF2 soon since I'm upgrading to a Holo Spring 3 DAC.


----------



## 529128

buson160man said:


> I have a Bifrost 2 I was using on my computer set up and I recently purchased a Sonnet Morpheus Dac/ Preamp for my main rig in the living room. I boxed up and traded my Burson conductor 3 ref dac/amp/preamp in on it. So temporarily I moved my Bifrost 2 to the Burson Ha-160 headphone amp ( sounds more analog like and musical than the newer burson Conductor 3 Ref as a headphone amp) in my main rig main rig and warmed it up for 24 hours. Listened yesterday to it and I have to say the Bifrost 2 hits way above its price in performance. It sounds wonderfully musical has pretty respectable weight and tonality while it might not be the detail master the Burson conductor 3 ref is the Bifrost 2 is a very engaging listen. It has a really nicely balanced musicality to it that makes for engagingly long listening sessions. It is pretty dynamic as well. I have received my Sonnet Moropheus dac but the Bifrost 2 is so engaging I am still enjoying it.


I just bought the BF2 to serve as dac in my rig with a modded Burson HA-160ds: the internal dac is bypassed which essentially makes it a ha-160. I am upgrading from the IFI Hip Dac which I definitely enjoyed due to its warm tonality but I was longing for the real deal...


----------



## buson160man (Dec 3, 2021)

henrikgadegaard said:


> I just bought the BF2 to serve as dac in my rig with a modded Burson HA-160ds: the internal dac is bypassed which essentially makes it a ha-160. I am upgrading from the IFI Hip Dac which I definitely enjoyed due to its warm tonality but I was longing for the real deal...


I do not know if you are into audiophile fuses but if you have the stock fuse in the 160 you might try upgrading it. I have on my ha-160 and I got a pretty nice improvement in the sound quality. I used a hifi tuning supreme fuse in mine and I like the results very much. Much quieter for one and much better sound. The hifi tuning fuses are directional so make sure you install it correctly.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 3, 2021)

I prefer the sonic enhancing benefits of Tequila over fuses.  😏

**I have Hifi tuning in my Lyr3 and VH2.
Link for the appropriate fuses for BF2, please.  😄


----------



## 529128

buson160man said:


> I do not know if you are into audiophile fuses but if you have the stock fuse in the 160 you might try upgrading it. I have on my ha-160 and I got a pretty nice improvement in the sound quality. I used a hifi tuning supreme fuse in mine and I like the results very much. Much quieter for one and much better sound. The hifi tuning fuses are directional so make sure you install it correctly.


Thanks! How on earth is this done?


----------



## tylercarrRTR

After reading through this thread for a while I was persuaded into purchasing a BF2. I can officially say that after a few weeks of taking it all in, I can now see the hype. 

No disrespect but my Modius feels like a paper weight now lol I had no idea that the BF2 was going to be able to go punch for punch with the Modius when it came to performance per dollar. Worth every penny


----------



## akelew (Dec 12, 2021)

I'm looking for a DAC to pair with 2021 LCD-X. I will be using it through a Burson Soloist amp.
I was thinking about the Bifrost 2. I have heard it has good depth to soundstage which the LCD-X may not be the strongest at, so i thought it could help balance it a bit?
I primarily listen to EDM with lots of deep textured bass and impacts. I listen to a bit obscure edm that has lots of detailed and fast stuff going on at once panning around the place which i thought bifrost could be strong at imaging wise, as i think i would really appreciate having a more 3d presentation, but i also really value that weight to bass, the impact and depth, and i felt that perhaps if the stage was deeper, i could lose some of that due to things being 'further away'?

Thoughts?


----------



## chrisnyc75

akelew said:


> I'm looking for a DAC to pair with 2021 LCD-X. I will be using it through a Burson Soloist amp.
> I was thinking about the Bifrost 2. I have heard it has good depth to soundstage which the LCD-X may not be the strongest at, so i thought it could help balance it a bit?
> I primarily listen to EDM with lots of deep textured bass and impacts. I listen to a bit obscure edm that has lots of stuff going on at once panning around the place which i thought bifrost could be strong at, but i also really value that weight to bass, the impact and depth, and i felt that perhaps if the stage was deeper, i could lose some of that due to things being 'further away'?
> 
> Thoughts?


Bifrost 2 is a great choice, it is known for having a slightly warm punchy presentation, which I can tell you subjectively pairs very well with that kind of music.


----------



## 529128

I have an old Burson HA-160DS. Great pairing with the B2!


----------



## akelew

In my research one thing I keep coming back to with the Bifrost 2 is that some people feel it might be a bit 'slow' with transients? One of the reasons i really liked the Audeze LCD's when I auditioned them was their fast transients. Can anyone comment on this?


----------



## darylobert (Dec 13, 2021)

darylobert said:


> I think my Bifrost2/LYR3 combo just blew up my Campfire Altas. It powered off with a pop, and now the headphones will not make any sound. So upset





darylobert said:


> It was the power strip switch, so both the LYR3 and Bifrost came down and went back on simultaneously.  Not sure if the damage happened when going on or off.  I should also mention that the LYR3 always has a little pop when powering up about a few seconds after turning it on when the tube kicks in.


I finally got around to sending the ATLAS back to Campfire, and they replaced them with new Headphones.  What a fantastic company!


----------



## darylobert

Also, I played around with a couple of other tubes, and the turn-on pop is always there; it's small, but I do hear the amp click on after the tube warms up.


----------



## tafens

darylobert said:


> Also, I played around with a couple of other tubes, and the turn-on pop is always there; it's small, but I do hear the amp click on after the tube warms up.


The audible click (from the amp itself) is the muting relay connecting the output of the amp to the headphone jack/pre outs. When the power goes on it waits for the tube stage to stabilise before connecting the output to headphone jack. When power goes off the relay disconnects the output immediately. The muting relay may also disconnect while the amp is on if there’s a DC offset detected.

The Bifrost2 also has a muting relay, as do all their amps and DACs, even the DAC cards internal to Jot/Lyr/Asgard (don’t know about the DAC/amp combos though, like Fulla and Hel, but I don’t think they have one). On the Bifrost2 DAC and up, the relay also clicks/mutes the output when the sample rate changes on the input.


----------



## darylobert

tafens said:


> The audible click (from the amp itself) is the muting relay connecting the output of the amp to the headphone jack/pre outs. When the power goes on it waits for the tube stage to stabilise before connecting the output to headphone jack. When power goes off the relay disconnects the output immediately. The muting relay may also disconnect while the amp is on if there’s a DC offset detected.
> 
> The Bifrost2 also has a muting relay, as do all their amps and DACs, even the DAC cards internal to Jot/Lyr/Asgard (don’t know about the DAC/amp combos though, like Fulla and Hel, but I don’t think they have one). On the Bifrost2 DAC and up, the relay also clicks/mutes the output when the sample rate changes on the input.


Thanks for the info; great to know!


----------



## Smoothstereo

darylobert said:


> Thanks for the info; great to know!


If I am reading your story correctly, you have both Lyr3 and BF2 plugged into a power strip and you are using the power strip main on/off button to turn on and off your gear, is probably not a good idea. To me that's like your gear is on while you suddenly turn everything off that is plugged into the power strip with the main switch, that's like losing electric power during a blackout. 

I am not an electrician or audio expert, but I would rather individually turn on/off each gear via its own power switch so that it comes down or up as intended. Even though these headphone electronics are low powered equipment compared to home stereo, probably not good idea to power all thngs On at the same time or Off at the same time. Based on my home stereo experience, I always turn stuff on and off one at a time.


----------



## darylobert (Dec 13, 2021)

Smoothstereo said:


> If I am reading your story correctly, you have both Lyr3 and BF2 plugged into a power strip and you are using the power strip main on/off button to turn on and off your gear, is probably not a good idea. To me that's like your gear is on while you suddenly turn everything off that is plugged into the power strip with the main switch, that's like losing electric power during a blackout.
> 
> I am not an electrician or audio expert, but I would rather individually turn on/off each gear via its own power switch so that it comes down or up as intended. Even though these headphone electronics are low powered equipment compared to home stereo, probably not good idea to power all thngs On at the same time or Off at the same time. Based on my home stereo experience, I always turn stuff on and off one at a time.


No, it was an accident; the switch got stepped on and flickered.  I usually leave the BF2 on 24/7 and power off the LYR3 when not in use.


----------



## Smoothstereo

darylobert said:


> No, it was an accident; the stitch got stepped on and flickered.  I usually leave the BF2 on 24/7 and power off the LYR3 when not in use.


Oh I see, gotcha. Cool that Campfire came thru for you.


----------



## darylobert

Smoothstereo said:


> Oh I see, gotcha. Cool that Campfire came thru for you.


Yes, 100%, great company, I will buy more from them in the future.


----------



## Dawgfish

Got a Bifrost 2 in today.  Sounds really good.  It definitely has a solid low end on it.  Soundstage is pretty spacious also.  So far so good.


----------



## tafens

Dawgfish said:


> Got a Bifrost 2 in today.  Sounds really good.  It definitely has a solid low end on it.  Soundstage is pretty spacious also.  So far so good.


I quite agree. I’ve had the Bifrost2 almost since launch. It pairs very well with Lyr3 and gave it a boost in just about every aspect including low end, detail, and soundstage as compared to the internal multibit card


----------



## kumar402

tafens said:


> I quite agree. I’ve had the Bifrost2 almost since launch. It pairs very well with Lyr3 and gave it a boost in just about every aspect including low end, detail, and soundstage as compared to the internal multibit card


Lyr3 +BF2 is one of the best stack at its price point. I had this combo and enjoyed it a lot.


----------



## DeweyCH

Wow, I didn't really know what to expect going up to a BF2, but right out of the gate that's one spacious soundstage.


----------



## DeweyCH

And I love the remote. I'm gonna carry it with me everywhere I go in case I ever need to bludgeon a rabid wolverine to death.


----------



## nasty nate

Adding to the endorsements for the Lyr3 / Bif2 stack - the only way I could think to improve it was the Lokius - which I ordered a few weeks ago


----------



## Dawgfish

DeweyCH said:


> And I love the remote. I'm gonna carry it with me everywhere I go in case I ever need to bludgeon a rabid wolverine to death.


Thank you for the great advice.  I'll have mine handy for the Orange Bowl! Lol!😃


----------



## DeweyCH

Anyone able to give me a rundown on the difference between the balanced and RCA outputs running into a Liquid Platinum? I’ve read the LP doesn’t particularly care about balanced vs not for inputs, but the BF2 outputs twice the voltage via XLR. Should I care?


----------



## shafat777

DeweyCH said:


> Anyone able to give me a rundown on the difference between the balanced and RCA outputs running into a Liquid Platinum? I’ve read the LP doesn’t particularly care about balanced vs not for inputs, but the BF2 outputs twice the voltage via XLR. Should I care?


You said it right, the LP topology converts se signals coming via rca input into balanced for the balanced HP output. The HP has to be plugged in the balanced 4 pin XLR though. For the BF2, which i exclusively used with the LP, i used the rca outs in to my LP. Reason being, some LPs have minor channel imbalance in low volume. since the xlr out of the bf2 is 4 vlt and is louder, that gave LP much control for the pot. RCA input reduces the volume so you ll have better control over your pot incase you run into any channel imbalance issue.


----------



## kumar402 (Dec 17, 2021)

DeweyCH said:


> Anyone able to give me a rundown on the difference between the balanced and RCA outputs running into a Liquid Platinum? I’ve read the LP doesn’t particularly care about balanced vs not for inputs, but the BF2 outputs twice the voltage via XLR. Should I care?


The balanced out of LP is much better but for input it doesn’t matter. Also unlike Gungnir and Yagg, BF2 has good performance out of SE so SE should work well. Also unless you have a balanced pre amp, using balanced input won’t give you too much play on volume knob as there is no gain setting in amp. If you have balanced preamp then go balanced for sure. I’m using Schiit Sys for preamp duty for SE


----------



## davidfrance

Some things are so obvious that there is no point in even saying them, but then if you do say them, instead of looking stupid, you learn something. 

Looking at my "remote control" that came with my Bifrost 2, I see no battery cover. So the energy that powers it must come from the energy produced by pressing the buttons ? Otherwise, what ?


----------



## JohnnyOps

davidfrance said:


> Some things are so obvious that there is no point in even saying them, but then if you do say them, instead of looking stupid, you learn something.
> 
> Looking at my "remote control" that came with my Bifrost 2, I see no battery cover. So the energy that powers it must come from the energy produced by pressing the buttons ? Otherwise, what ?


So I can only comment on the remote that came with my Freya + which looks like a solid piece of milled aluminum. Turns out the grey piece where the buttons are is actually the battery cover, and is held on by several strong magnets. So pressing around the edges will make the cover lift up. Not sure if BF2 remote is the same.


----------



## davidfrance (Dec 20, 2021)

JohnnyOps said:


> So I can only comment on the remote that came with my Freya + which looks like a solid piece of milled aluminum. Turns out the grey piece where the buttons are is actually the battery cover, and is held on by several strong magnets. So pressing around the edges will make the cover lift up. Not sure if BF2 remote is the same.


Ah, thanks ! I see there is a whole on the back side, maybe (probably) that pushes the button cover off, if you push something in there.


----------



## tafens

JohnnyOps said:


> So I can only comment on the remote that came with my Freya + which looks like a solid piece of milled aluminum. Turns out the grey piece where the buttons are is actually the battery cover, and is held on by several strong magnets. So pressing around the edges will make the cover lift up. Not sure if BF2 remote is the same.


It is. As a bonus, thanks to the magnets, you can stick the remote to the side of the Bifrost when not in use (or any other steel/iron surface)


----------



## elementze

Just started sourcing my BF2 with an Intona Galvanic Isolator.  Paired with a Raspbery Pi steamer, this has seemed to pair really nicely with the Bifrost.  Anyone else experiment with the Intona on a BF2?  Curious your experience.


----------



## Ripper2860

Hmmm.  I thought Unison USB in the BF2 already provides Galvanic Isolation.


----------



## tafens

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.  I thought Unison USB in the BF2 already provides Galvanic Isolation.


So did I, but you just can’t isolate enough, can you?


----------



## elementze

Ripper2860 said:


> Hmmm.  I thought Unison USB in the BF2 already provides Galvanic Isolation.


It does, but no isolation is perfect.  It has some level of isolation / rejection, which is much better than nothing.  With the Intona I guess it's two stages of isolation :-D  It would be interesting to see the specs on the Galvanic isolation used in the BF2.  And I should setup a blind a/b test and see if I really can pickout the difference...


----------



## DeweyCH

My BF2 is doing something odd. Whenever I start Tidal playing, it clicks (I know the click is protection by design), but there's no sound. I have to pause, and then hit play again, then everything works fine. This somewhat normal?


----------



## tafens

DeweyCH said:


> My BF2 is doing something odd. Whenever I start Tidal playing, it clicks (I know the click is protection by design), but there's no sound. I have to pause, and then hit play again, then everything works fine. This somewhat normal?


Bifrost2 mutes (click is the muting relay) the output when the sample rate is changed. That’s probably why it clicks, as for the missing sound I don’t know, but as it works after a pause/play maybe some player/usb driver/port issue perhaps? Have you tried restarting the computer, turning it off and on again, change usb port etc?


----------



## JohnnyOps

Afaik every single Schiit DAC clicks audibly when the input format changes. 16/44 to 24/48 to  24/192 to 24/196. 

You shouldn’t hear a click between two tracks that are the exact same format, but there could be some “no format” time between two tracks of the exact same format, so in that situation (depending on streamer/player/content) you might hear a click between two tracks on the same album. 

So everything is acting as expected.


----------



## nasty nate

more knobs = more enjoyment, that's just science


----------



## Neweymatt

nasty nate said:


> more knobs = more enjoyment, that's just science


Ooooh yeah, has to be!!  

I've been holding out as I've got software EQ on my Mac already, so I've been diverting Lokius $$ toward headphones & IEMs, but I'm sure it will happen eventually.

At the moment I've got balanced from BF2 to the Jot2, but on the SE path I've got a SYS to the Vali2+ and then to the Jot2.  This lets me switch in tube-ness if I like, and also use a second DAC on the SE input to the Vali.  Adding Lokius to this mix would give me 2x more paths to mess around with along with all those knobs, and I'm not sure my brain could handle it...


----------



## RickB

If you use a Mac and you want to hear how much detail a B2 can pull out, check out the simple music player Colibri (in the Mac App Store, $4.99 when I bought it). Go into its settings and make sure you're using exclusive mode and the RAM disk. It's a little harsher than Audirvāna, but noticeably more detailed.


----------



## Lovebox

In the hope that someone can help me with a quick question:
I currently have a choice to make between a BF 2 and a Gumby (from 2017 used) for the same price.
My current amp is a Singxer SA-1. Which of the two would be the better choice?


----------



## nasty nate

Neweymatt said:


> Ooooh yeah, has to be!!
> 
> I've been holding out as I've got software EQ on my Mac already, so I've been diverting Lokius $$ toward headphones & IEMs, but I'm sure it will happen eventually.
> 
> At the moment I've got balanced from BF2 to the Jot2, but on the SE path I've got a SYS to the Vali2+ and then to the Jot2.  This lets me switch in tube-ness if I like, and also use a second DAC on the SE input to the Vali.  Adding Lokius to this mix would give me 2x more paths to mess around with along with all those knobs, and I'm not sure my brain could handle it...



That would be a ton of options to play with; I suppose a Lokius could eliminate the need for the Vali2 path, since you can introduce some tube flavor / characteristics with the knobs... all a matter of preference!

Your setup sounds ideal to me - maybe a Lyr 4 eventually to replace that Vali2 😏


----------



## HeyWaj10

Hi all - could use some input on my potential upgrade path centered around the Bifrost 2.  My goal is simplicity, as I'm turning to 100% Tidal streaming. The chain would be as follows:

2021 MacBook Air > Tidal via Roon > USB-C to USB-B cable > Schiit Bifrost 2 (Unison USB) > Schiit Lyr 3 > Audeze LCD-X (2020)

My main concern is whether I will have any handover issues from the iMac Air directly to the Bifrost 2?  My 2011 iMac is useless into my ES9028 USB-C input of my Lyr3, as it requires too much hardware via powered USB hub. I'm trying to keep the simplicity both in terms of the signal chain and the wire array at my listening chair. The aesthetic is very clean, and I intend to keep it that way.  Having to use the Apple CCK adapter for my iPhone 11 into the Lyr3 (ES9028) drives me nuts as it is. 

Thoughts/confirmations are greatly appreciated!


----------



## Neweymatt

HeyWaj10 said:


> Hi all - could use some input on my potential upgrade path centered around the Bifrost 2.  My goal is simplicity, as I'm turning to 100% Tidal streaming. The chain would be as follows:
> 
> 2021 MacBook Air > Tidal via Roon > USB-C to USB-B cable > Schiit Bifrost 2 (Unison USB) > Schiit Lyr 3 > Audeze LCD-X (2020)
> 
> ...


Looks like a winner to me.  I use the USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter out of my MacBook Pro, and a USB-A to USB-B cable to the Bifrost2 instead, as I also have an external HDMI monitor.  But a USB-C to USB-B should work fine I believe.

The Tidal app on your Mac will let you select "Schiit Bifrost 2 Unison USB" in Exclusive mode, so there should be no issues other than the 'click' the BF2 makes when it negotiates a different bitrate with Tidal.

I sometimes use the old CCK adapter with the same USB-A to USB-B cable from my iPhone to the BF2, and this also works well if I don't want to be bothered with the MBP.

Should be an awesome listen once you get it going!!


----------



## Roses54

Should I be scared of dropping big bucks on this when Modius exist? Please say yes..


----------



## Neweymatt (Jan 6, 2022)

Roses54 said:


> Should I be scared of dropping big bucks on this when Modius exist? Please say yes..


No

edit: If you have the $$ for Bifrost then you won’t regret it.


----------



## ssmith3046

Roses54 said:


> Should I be scared of dropping big bucks on this when Modius exist? Please say yes..


I use a Modius and Modi multibit. I switch them out to change things up. I have had a Bifrost 2 in my shopping cart several times and get to the checkout part but never complete the purchase.  My little Modi multibit makes happy.  I know the Bifrost 2 would be great and I'm sure I'll get one in the future but once I lose myself in the music with the help of the Modi Multibit I forget about the Bifrost 2.  The Modius is a steal at $200 and the Modi multibit is a huge bargain for $250.


----------



## davidfrance

Roses54 said:


> Should I be scared of dropping big bucks on this when Modius exist? Please say yes..


I don't have any definitive advice that you really must follow, but just to ask the question, why not just get the Bifrost 2 and be done with the issue ? 

I am 60 and maybe my ears are getting old, but I bought the Bifrost 2, and I adore it, but even better, I have closed the door on the idea of any further DAC upgrades. If I had gotten a Modius, the door would still be open.


----------



## Neweymatt

davidfrance said:


> I don't have any definitive advice that you really must follow, but just to ask the question, why not just get the Bifrost 2 and be done with the issue ?
> 
> I am 60 and maybe my ears are getting old, but I bought the Bifrost 2, and I adore it, but even better, I have closed the door on the idea of any further DAC upgrades. If I had gotten a Modius, the door would still be open.


This. 
And don’t forget the idea of the Bifrost platform is that it is field upgradable, so it should last you for a long many years into the future.


----------



## emorrison33

HeyWaj10 said:


> Hi all - could use some input on my potential upgrade path centered around the Bifrost 2.  My goal is simplicity, as I'm turning to 100% Tidal streaming. The chain would be as follows:
> 
> 2021 MacBook Air > Tidal via Roon > USB-C to USB-B cable > Schiit Bifrost 2 (Unison USB) > Schiit Lyr 3 > Audeze LCD-X (2020)
> 
> ...


My concern would be with Tidal.  Bifrost 2 does not do MQA.  So you would never get the complete unfold from the Masters tracks.  Tidal software would do the first unfold (96Khz max, if I recall correctly).  Ive never used Roon (or a MAC), so I'm not sure if that does the complete unfold before sending to the DAC.


----------



## Ripper2860

Roon will do only the 1st level unfold w/ a non-MQA DAC.  Here's some more info...

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en...at_does_MQA_192kHz_and_MQA_Studio_192kHz_mean


----------



## JohnnyOps

Ripper2860 said:


> Roon will do only the 1st level unfold w/ a non-MQA DAC.  Here's some more info...
> 
> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en...at_does_MQA_192kHz_and_MQA_Studio_192kHz_mean


A lot of people in RoonWorld(tm) have turned to Qobuz out of a hate for Tidal.  I have both Qobuz and Tidal, and I have exclusively non-MQA DACs.  I’m very happy with 1-unfold MQA via Roon -> Yggy/Gumby on those occasions when I don’t own the CD and Qobuz doesn’t have it.  I honestly wouldn’t keep Tidal except for the fact that Tesla now has Tidal as a built-in app, and the quality is way better than Spotify.


----------



## MardukSonofEa

Just pulled the trigger on the Bifrost 2! People seem to be getting them faster than the stated 6-8 weeks, so hope that's the case for me. They'll be completing my Burson Soloist 3 XP -> Arya v3 setup. I've seen quite a few other people in forums with this "beginning of the endgame" combo - maybe I'm basic, but it must be common for a good reason!


----------



## Barnstormer13 (Jan 9, 2022)

MardukSonofEa said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the Bifrost 2! People seem to be getting them faster than the stated 6-8 weeks, so hope that's the case for me. They'll be completing my Burson Soloist 3 XP -> Arya v3 setup. I've seen quite a few other people in forums with this "beginning of the endgame" combo - maybe I'm basic, but it must be common for a good reason!


Depends on what end game looks like to you, but whatever that is, IMHO the Bifrost 2 will carry you a fair distance down the road. It’s the one competent in my chain I never think about upgrading because it’s never the weak point.  For me, a BF2 and quality tube amp are the perfect combination.

IMHO it has a bit of spooky magic in its imaging and bass. On top of that it’s extremely good at rejecting noise, jitter, and anything else that would degrade the sound. it’s dead silent, super detailed, crystal clear and has fantastic microdynamics. Any improvement would be small and come at a high price.


----------



## Xerosnake90 (Jan 22, 2022)

Managed to snag one second hand, can't wait to pair it with my Jotunheim!


----------



## Ripper2860

Roses54 said:


> Should I be scared of dropping big bucks on this when Modius exist? Please say yes..


Fortune favors the Brave.


----------



## elementze

Last night I did some experimenting on the BF2 with HQPlayer.  Has anyone else here tried this?  Opinions on HQPlayer filter settings for BF2?  

Another thing I noticed in HQPlayer is that the BF2 does accept 32-bit data (even though only specified 24/192).  Does anyone know what the BF2 does with 32-bit data?  Truncate?  Dither?  It sounds good...    maybe that's all that counts.


----------



## Lvivske

so anyone notice a difference when flipping the polarity/phase button? i sometimes leave it on because i like the light....but today on some new stuff noticed a difference when flipping on/off (on a bass frequency, definitely shifted). was wondering if anyone else inverts or even hears a change?


----------



## akelew

Does Bifrost 2 unison usb require power be supplied over the usb line?
My motherboard has a feature that allows me to disable just the power on one of its usb ports and im wondering if that would work here.


----------



## Ripper2860

Yes.  It is required.


----------



## akelew

Ripper2860 said:


> Yes.  It is required.


Bum. Thanks


----------



## kumar402

akelew said:


> Does Bifrost 2 unison usb require power be supplied over the usb line?
> My motherboard has a feature that allows me to disable just the power on one of its usb ports and im wondering if that would work here.


I think it is required for handshake


----------



## akelew

kumar402 said:


> I think it is required for handshake


Huh, interesting. The driver included with my motherboard allows me to turn the power on and off through windows, so perhaps i can just disable it after the Bifrost is connected.. I will give it a shot when it arrives.


----------



## kumar402

akelew said:


> Huh, interesting. The driver included with my motherboard allows me to turn the power on and off through windows, so perhaps i can just disable it after the Bifrost is connected.. I will give it a shot when it arrives.


Ya do let us. Interested to know


----------



## Tralfaz

A random Monday morning thought:

I recently replaced my Lyr 3 with a Linear Tube Audio MZ2-R and was worried that the increase in detail and transparency would mean I'd need to move on from my Bifrost 2 to something else in order to keep up.  As things have turned out, the BF2 can more than keep up to the point that while I'm sure there are better/more expensive DACs out there, the biggest issue I now face is software-rated: there's a lot of great music out there that's indifferently recorded (to be charitable).  The BF2 makes well-recorded music sound terrific and exposes the flaws in lesser recording while still letting the music through to be enjoyed in spite of how it was recorded.

The Bifrost 2 continues to demonstrate to me why it's such a great DAC and has to be one of the greatest bargains out there.


----------



## Lvivske

akelew said:


> Does Bifrost 2 unison usb require power be supplied over the usb line?
> My motherboard has a feature that allows me to disable just the power on one of its usb ports and im wondering if that would work here.



its powered from a power cord, not USB


----------



## Voxata

Lvivske said:


> its powered from a power cord, not USB



The 5v line is still active on the USB module I believe. Would be interesting to sever the 5v pin on a cable and see if it still functions.


----------



## Lvivske

Voxata said:


> The 5v line is still active on the USB module I believe. Would be interesting to sever the 5v pin on a cable and see if it still functions.


but why?


----------



## Voxata

Lvivske said:


> but why?


Less power sources connected the better, supposedly. If I've got time I'll give it a shot later.


----------



## Ripper2860

I have a power line neutered USB cable and assure you BF2 does not work with it.

As to why?  I already had it used with another DAC that was not galvanically isolated / Unison.  Besides who can dare call themself an Audiophile if they had the means to try it and didn't.   😀


----------



## akelew (Jan 29, 2022)

Yeah the USB port i'm talking about is called DAC-UP2. According to the manufacturer, it provides "clean, isolated and low-noise power". It also comes with a driver that allows you to (from within windows), disable the power to the port all together, leaving just the data line active for even less noise. The last feature it has is it allows you to increase voltage to account for drop over long cable distances. It's a feature on my Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master motherboard. I'm looking to run my Bifrost 2 off of it when it arrives using a 1 meter Supra cable. I'd imagine the galvanic isolation should protect against most noise anyway but this will take it just a bit further hopefully. I will test if the bifrost 2 only needs usb power for initial handshake, but i wonder if switching the usb power off manual would really be worth it each time i turn my pc on for the impact on sound. I'd imagine the galvanic isolation is more about protecting dirty power input as opposed to cleaning up the data signal that may be impacted by the noise, so i think there could still be a benefit to not running the data line with power along side it.


----------



## hikaru12

Does anyone have personal impressions with the BF2 and LCD-2F? Are they a good match? I figure because the Bifrost is warm but has great bass it would compliment the LCDs well. Also, does anyone find the bass on the BF2 is a bit ‘boomy’ compared to the Yggy? I actually need a little bit of that quantity regarding the LCD-4s which have a more neutral but very extended bass. Thanks!


----------



## Xerosnake90

Hey guys, 



Just got my Bifrost 2. For whatever reason the USB doesn't get recognized on my fold 3 but works on my laptop. I had no issue with this on the Hel 2, am I missing something? 



I also can't seem to get wavelet to work even in legacy mode. EQ does nothing it seems with other apps, I'm on Chrome OS


----------



## hikaru12

Xerosnake90 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that - just wanted to go slightly off topic; do you know how long it took you to get the BF2 from the date of purchase?


----------



## Ripper2860 (Feb 1, 2022)

Xerosnake90 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you tried using a powered USB hub to see if power to the Unison USB controller may be the issue?  It may be your device does not output sufficient power to BF2 via USB.


----------



## Xerosnake90

Ripper2860 said:


> Have you tried using a powered USB hub to see if power to the Unison USB controller may be the issue?  It may be your device dies not output sufficient power to BF2 via USB.



I will give that a shot. Someone suggested an OTG cable so I ordered an adapter on Amazon that I'll have tomorrow. If no go I'll try that



hikaru12 said:


> Sorry to hear that - just wanted to go slightly off topic; do you know how long it took you to get the BF2 from the date of purchase?


I bought it used


----------



## Ripper2860

Yeah.  An OTG cable is a must with a mobile device.


----------



## Xerosnake90

Ripper2860 said:


> Yeah.  An OTG cable is a must with a mobile device.


I appreciate the help!


----------



## Xerosnake90

Also... 

Sweet Jesus. This thing is amazing. I now understand what holographic sound, excellent staging and imaging sound like.


----------



## Smoothstereo

BF2 should work with Android phones via OTG usb cable. Even my old Samsung S7 edge works. Try to look at your usb settings on the Fold3.


----------



## Xerosnake90

Smoothstereo said:


> BF2 should work with Android phones via OTG usb cable. Even my old Samsung S7 edge works. Try to look at your usb settings on the Fold3.


I didn't have an OTG adapter. Got one on the way now


----------



## Xerosnake90 (Feb 2, 2022)

Smoothstereo said:


> BF2 should work with Android phones via OTG usb cable. Even my old Samsung S7 edge works. Try to look at your usb settings on the Fold3.


Well the adapter didn't work. I'm not sure what settings I could look at, usb settings doesn't give me anything

Got a powered usb hub otw


----------



## Smoothstereo

Some newer Android phones will let you decide how you want your usb OTG connected device to operate like which device does the controlling, this device or the connected device. Also what the usb should do like transferring files, charging phone only, etc. Try choosing this device be controller, and transferring files.


----------



## Xerosnake90 (Feb 2, 2022)

Smoothstereo said:


> Some newer Android phones will let you decide how you want your usb OTG connected device to operate like which device does the controlling, this device or the connected device. Also what the usb should do like transferring files, charging phone only, etc. Try choosing this device be controller, and transferring files.


I had to enable Dev mode in order to choose those options but it did not fix the issue. I have a powered USB on the way since that was another recommendation

Whenever I connect the cable the phone does not even recognize that anything is plugged in


----------



## Smoothstereo

Xerosnake90 said:


> I had to enable Dev mode in order to choose those options but it did not fix the issue. I have a powered USB on the way since that was another recommendation
> 
> Whenever I connect the cable the phone does not even recognize that anything is plugged in


Ok, that is quite odd. I use both Samsung S10+ and S7 Edge with the BF2 with no issues. I use the Samsung OTG adapter that came with the phones respectively and plug my Audioquest Carbon usb cable into that adapter and BF2 and it works.

Let us know how it goes with the usb powered hub.


----------



## Xerosnake90

Smoothstereo said:


> Ok, that is quite odd. I use both Samsung S10+ and S7 Edge with the BF2 with no issues. I use the Samsung OTG adapter that came with the phones respectively and plug my Audioquest Carbon usb cable into that adapter and BF2 and it works.
> 
> Let us know how it goes with the usb powered hub.


It's frustrating that it's anything but plug in and good to go. I've had to spend $30 so far to fix the issue so hopefully this is it. Won't know until I get home and they deliver it but I'll keep everyone updated

If I could get EQ to work on my laptop I would just use that as my means of connection but I can't get that to work either.


----------



## Xerosnake90 (Feb 3, 2022)

Powered USB hub did the trick 😁

Edit: I like using my laptop better. I'll just grab a Lokius for EQ


----------



## nasty nate

Xerosnake90 said:


> Powered USB hub did the trick 😁
> 
> Edit: I like using my laptop better. I'll just grab a Lokius for EQ



Glad you got it working  I think you'll like the look of the stack with Lokius added (I also use my laptop - I enjoy the simplicity):


----------



## Xerosnake90

nasty nate said:


> Glad you got it working  I think you'll like the look of the stack with Lokius added (I also use my laptop - I enjoy the simplicity):


Put in my order for Lokius yesterday! 1-3 day shipping so it'll be here quick. Looks great!


----------



## MardukSonofEa

In case anyone finds this helpful: I ordered a silver Bifrost 2 from Schiit on Jan 8 and got a notification today that it's shipping. Not bad all in all!


----------



## Xerosnake90

MardukSonofEa said:


> In case anyone finds this helpful: I ordered a silver Bifrost 2 from Schiit on Jan 8 and got a notification today that it's shipping. Not bad all in all!


Yea 4 weeks isn't terrible. I kinda wish I'd bought it new cuz I like that new item feeling you know


----------



## Nothatso

MardukSonofEa said:


> In case anyone finds this helpful: I ordered a silver Bifrost 2 from Schiit on Jan 8 and got a notification today that it's shipping. Not bad all in all!


Good to hear. I ordered one in black on Jan 6, but still no such luck.


----------



## MardukSonofEa

Nothatso said:


> Good to hear. I ordered one in black on Jan 6, but still no such luck.



Their website's estimate is also down to 2-4 weeks, so it seems like wait times should be getting better overall. Hope yours ships soon - good luck!


----------



## akelew

Yeah my Jan 15 silver just shipped a couple hours ago


----------



## Xerosnake90

akelew said:


> Yeah my Jan 15 silver just shipped a couple hours ago


Oh man that wait is excruciating. Especially when you hear it for the first time


----------



## akelew

Xerosnake90 said:


> Oh man that wait is excruciating. Especially when you hear it for the first time


It's my first everything, and im waiting for the rest. LCD-3 and Burson Soloist 3x also at least maybe a month away.. Well not completely first, ive been rocking some Fidelio X2's off of onboard sound for the last 5 years so theres that.


----------



## Nothatso

MardukSonofEa said:


> Their website's estimate is also down to 2-4 weeks, so it seems like wait times should be getting better overall. Hope yours ships soon - good luck!


Turns out they sent me an email earlier this evening saying my order was ready to ship after I pay my invoice (payment authorization expired) so I guess it was a month wait for me as well!


----------



## Xerosnake90

akelew said:


> It's my first everything, and im waiting for the rest. LCD-3 and Burson Soloist 3x also at least maybe a month away.. Well not completely first, ive been rocking some Fidelio X2's off of onboard sound for the last 5 years so theres that.


That is some killer gear you've got coming in, I can't even imagine how good it'll all sound together! I'm gonna jump on my first $1000+ pair with the Aryas. I haven't heard audeze yet but LCD X are on the list too.


----------



## MardukSonofEa

akelew said:


> It's my first everything, and im waiting for the rest. LCD-3 and Burson Soloist 3x also at least maybe a month away.. Well not completely first, ive been rocking some Fidelio X2's off of onboard sound for the last 5 years so theres that.



Lmao, what an upgrade! Cheers


----------



## akelew (Feb 8, 2022)

MardukSonofEa said:


> Lmao, what an upgrade! Cheers


Yeah lol, i decided to jump straight into the deep end. Did half a year of research leading up to it. I've only auditioned the LCD-3 not the soloist or bifrost, but from what i've gathered i think it should be a good mix. What sparked this venture actually was the imminent release of the Subpac X1 bass transducer. The Subpac isn't a toy either, its audiophile grade with balanced io and even built in sonarworks support, it does flat from 1-250hz. I'm looking to combine it all for a really immersive electronic music listening experience. Won't only be using it for that though, i do like a bit of everything! I've been spending my spare time putting together two playlists, one for Subpac stuff, and another for LCD stuff. I'm quickly finding theres a lot of music i like other than EDM and im really looking forward to sinking my teeth into it all once its up and running.


----------



## MardukSonofEa

akelew said:


> Yeah lol, i decided to jump straight into the deep end. Did half a year of research leading up to it. I've only auditioned the LCD-3 not the soloist or bifrost, but from what i've gathered i think it should be a good mix. What sparked this venture actually was the imminent release of the Subpac X1 bass transducer. The Subpac isn't a toy either, its audiophile grade with balanced io and even built in sonarworks support, it does flat from 1-250hz. I'm looking to combine it all for a really immersive electronic music listening experience. Won't only be using it for that though, i do like a bit of everything! I've been spending my spare time putting together two playlists, one for Subpac stuff, and another for LCD stuff. I'm quickly finding theres a lot of music i like other than EDM and im really looking forward to sinking my teeth into it all once its up and running.



Nice! I've been seeing more and more hype for the Subpac so definitely would love to hear how you like it once your system's all together. Blasting speakers is not gonna be an option for me for the time being with a new baby in the house but I'd love to get a bit of the Burning Man dance floor feeling again using headphones, rather than actually schlepping my old man ass to Burning Man.


----------



## akelew

MardukSonofEa said:


> Nice! I've been seeing more and more hype for the Subpac so definitely would love to hear how you like it once your system's all together. Blasting speakers is not gonna be an option for me for the time being with a new baby in the house but I'd love to get a bit of the Burning Man dance floor feeling again using headphones, rather than actually schlepping my old man ass to Burning Man.


That's it! I'm trying to recreate that Funktion One festival speaker stack sound and sensations, but at home with headphones lol which is a big ask. I think LCD-3 and subpac X1 are probably the closest i can get for my budget.


----------



## Xerosnake90

I saw someone mention you could add a bass speaker to your rig while wearing headphones. I haven't tried it but it seemed like a cool idea


----------



## carbonF1

I have a bone to pick with the Bifrost 2. Allow me to explain...

I've been moving some gear around my house, and relocated the BF2 to my office, leaving my DVD player/transport in the living room connected to my HDV 820 (via coax). Thankfully the 3m cables that come with the HD800S make listening in any seat not much of an issue. Last night while I was hanging out in the living room, I decided to pop in a CD and finish listening to the Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker soundtrack. As I was listening, something felt off, but I couldn't figure out what. I kept skipping through songs, just wondering when the heck this was going to be over. Got to the end and on a whim, decided to move the Bifrost back to the living room. I'm guessing you know where this is headed. As soon as I hooked everything back up to the BF2 and put on a song...*bam!* The magic immediately came back. I even put on an old Conway Twitty CD I found on the sidewalk one day just to enjoy how the Bifrost could make it sound...

TL;DR - my bone to pick? Now I want a Bifrost in every room of the house...gonna have to leave it in the living room for now though. The office desk is too cluttered as it is. Sometimes, you don't know what you have until it's gone.


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## akelew (Feb 9, 2022)

I found a really cool little device that you can use with Bifrost if your using XLR for your amp. It's a little OLED spectrum analyzer that you can connect to the single ended connections (with an rca-3.5mm adapter). Since bifrost 2 sends out signal on both at the same time, you can listen to your amp through XLR while the device shows some pretty cool spectrum analysis in real time through single ended. The device lets you select between 0-8khz, 0-16khz or 0-20khz analysis, and also allows you to adjust the gain. Watching the video here on Alibaba it looks like it has a really fast update rate and seems to be quite accurate. It has english mode too and a few other settings. I'm thinking of ordering one to set on top of my bifrost and i reckon the white OLED would go great with the Bifrost silver. Anyone using anything similar?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001178614031.html
This link has a different video showing better how acurate it is, the video in the link above shows all the different modes
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33004773999.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.1.2d3e2a8f9R3izM

Also wondering, would running single ended at the same time affect sound quality through the balanced out?


----------



## kumar402

akelew said:


> I found a really cool little device that you can use with Bifrost if your using XLR for your amp. It's a little OLED spectrum analyzer that you can connect to the single ended connections (with an rca-3.5mm adapter). Since bifrost 2 sends out signal on both at the same time, you can listen to your amp through XLR while the device shows some pretty cool spectrum analysis in real time through single ended. The device lets you select between 0-8khz, 0-16khz or 0-20khz analysis, and also allows you to adjust the gain. Watching the video here on Alibaba it looks like it has a really fast update rate and seems to be quite accurate. It has english mode too and a few other settings. I'm thinking of ordering one to set on top of my bifrost and i reckon the white OLED would go great with the Bifrost silver. Anyone using anything similar?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001178614031.html
> This link has a different video showing better how acurate it is, the video in the link above shows all the different modes
> ...


If you are using Roon and streamer connected to DAC then you don’t need to connect it to same DAC. I am someone who likes to keep DAC away from unnecessary devices. I would rather get Aux to RCA adapter and connect this device to the headphone out of laptop and will group laptop headphone out and streamer connected to main DAC, BF2 in your case, in same group. So the music out of headphone out of laptop and DAC is same. In case you don’t want to add such device to DAC directly


----------



## Neweymatt

akelew said:


> Also wondering, would running single ended at the same time affect sound quality through the balanced out?


Nope, you can use both at the same time.  I’ve got XLR out to the Jot2, and SE out to the Vali2+.  Works just fine, I really like to have the option of one amp or the other, depending on which headphone or IEM I want to use


----------



## hikaru12

I just got my BF2 in and I'm very amazed how the coax sounds out of the Pi2AES with a Shanti LPS. I had reserved the Pi2AES for the living room 'big brother' system but very impressed with the results. I used to use this thing with the Unison and the improvement in details with the Pi2AES is really nice. Now I just need a nice upgrade coax cable.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice. A friend of mine built me a custom dual PSU for the PI2AES back then. I remember how good the upgrade was from the default Meanwell supply. I absolutely love it.


----------



## hikaru12

Fegefeuer said:


> Nice. A friend of mine built me a custom dual PSU for the PI2AES back then. I remember how good the upgrade was from the default Meanwell supply. I absolutely love it.


If the SOTM SPS-500 output 5V I would totally go for it. I'm using the internal jumper to power the board and the Pi at the same time but it's limited to 5V (lowest the SOTM goes is 7V). If there's any other better LPS in the 1-2k range please let me know! I still need to upgrade the power cable for the LPS.


----------



## Fegefeuer

No idea about retail PSUs to be honest. There's too much weaselwording anyway in their marketing. Same with power cables. 

I find active parts more important in terms of power delivery than cables themselves or let's say secondary to them.
Personally I use two Airlink Balanced Power Supplies for audio stuff and played around with DC blockers. Those helped most depending on where stuff had to be connected to or how gear reacted.

Power cables I use are mostly DIY too, some use the Viablue X-60 as a base, some Lapp Ölflex and for noisy stuff I use Supra cables (e.g.) PC. All very well crafted.
The market is big and full of crap and everyone will have his own recommendation. Just loan and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## Neweymatt

hikaru12 said:


> I just got my BF2 in and I'm very amazed how the coax sounds out of the Pi2AES with a Shanti LPS. I had reserved the Pi2AES for the living room 'big brother' system but very impressed with the results. I used to use this thing with the Unison and the improvement in details with the Pi2AES is really nice. Now I just need a nice upgrade coax cable.


I’m curious, how is a Pi2AES going to change my life vs using USB from my iphone or MacBook Pro/Air into the bifrost2?  I have always assumed UnisonUSB would solve any noise/jitter issues.

I pretty much only use streaming, either Tidal or AppleMusic

Tx.


----------



## kumar402

Neweymatt said:


> I’m curious, how is a Pi2AES going to change my life vs using USB from my iphone or MacBook Pro/Air into the bifrost2?  I have always assumed UnisonUSB would solve any noise/jitter issues.
> 
> I pretty much only use streaming, either Tidal or AppleMusic
> 
> Tx.


Well for starter your laptop or phone won't be connected with DAC with any cord and hence you can take it where ever you want while working. Also with Spdif the clock in the PI2AES will reclock and send over the digital signal which may be better then USB.


----------



## akelew

Neweymatt said:


> I’m curious, how is a Pi2AES going to change my life vs using USB from my iphone or MacBook Pro/Air into the bifrost2?  I have always assumed UnisonUSB would solve any noise/jitter issues.
> 
> I pretty much only use streaming, either Tidal or AppleMusic
> 
> Tx.


From my understanding, UnisonUSB on the Bifrost 2 does not address jitter, because it does not have 'Schiit Adapticlock' built in. Only galvanic isolation. You need to step up to the Gungnir to get Adapticlock/clock regen.

I suggest you read through the SuperBestAudioFriends Bifrost 2 thread, there is where you will find extensive discussion on the differences between unison and spdif on the Bifrost 2.


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## kumar402 (Feb 10, 2022)

akelew said:


> From my understanding, UnisonUSB on the Bifrost 2 does not address jitter, because it does not have 'Schiit Adapticlock' built in. Only galvanic isolation. You need to step up to the Gungnir to get Adapticlock/clock regen.
> 
> I suggest you read through the SuperBestAudioFriends Bifrost 2 thread, there is where you will find extensive discussion on the differences between unison and spdif on the Bifrost 2.


It does say in the Schiit website that they use high quality clock for unison now I'm not sure how good it is
“Unison USB is special because it was developed for a single purpose: to provide the highest performance input for PCM digital, period. It doesn’t have ten thousand un-used functions, nor is it trying to optimize for five different unicorn formats that will probably be gone tomorrow. *It also uses very high-quality local clocks* and offers complete electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation from the source. It also provides lower power draw and complete UAC2 compatibility. “

But ya it doesn't have Adapticlock.
However does it matter a lot if Unison has good quality local clock? That's the question.


----------



## kumar402

Correct me if I'm wrong but if someone has very good DDC then do we need Adapticlock? However if we are using some normal SPDIF source then I feel Adapticlock makes more sense and in that regard to use BF2 with SPDIF input we need better source then say with Gungnir. But with USB input since DAC USB chip is the master so does Adapticlock makes any difference if Unison has good clock?


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## akelew (Feb 10, 2022)

From my understanding, for USB signal you need clock on both ends, send and recieve, and then the clocks sync the two up like a metronome on each end clicking at the exact same time, but if the sending end jitters, the recieving clock doesnt magically buffer the jittered signals and process it at the correct clock rate.. I think Adapticlock works like a buffer that recieves the signal, and then passes it on the final hop at a constant rate, so if the sending side jitters, it doesnt matter because it just resends it along at the proper clock rate, and adding a tiny bit of latency in the process as its always playing a signal that was recieved just a brief moment ago in the buffer.

So i believe with Schiit saying it contains a 'high quality clock', that just means, if all is going well, the timing is aligned very well. Because it needs a clock to function at all, it just so happens the one they include is high quality.

But i may be completely wrong.


----------



## MardukSonofEa

Plugged the Bifrost 2 in last night for the first time and listened for a couple of hours on my Arya V3 driven by Soloist 3XP. First impressions, coming from the Modius:

- I was expecting it to sound slightly darker at the top end based on reviews, but I actually noticed more treble detail on cymbal resonance. Polyphia - Loud surprised me with how much brighter the cymbals sounded. It's very smooth, just a lot of energy and not as pulled back as I expected. Cymbals are very present all the time on this DAC. Loved it on everything else I listened to, but on this track it was honestly a little too much. I'll have to go back to this track after a few days after more brain burn-in.

- The soundstage - I'm not sure if it's wider, maybe a little, but it is noticeably deeper, and center image depth and imaging is vastly improved with a track like Tool's Chocolate Chip Trip. The Modius + Arya sounded like an oval that was wide on the sides but shallow in the center. The Bifrost made that a perfect circle and pushed out the closer boundary a little so that vocals are more clearly in front of me. It's also much easier to tell when sounds are coming from behind me.

- Punch and slam - slightly more of this on already-slammy tracks, plus noticeably more thump in the bass on mellower tracks, which adds nice rhythm and body to the music.

- "Details" - I hate the vagueness of this word but it feels appropriate here. I'm hearing more resonance and air in the reverb around midrange instrumental notes (acoustic guitar, electric guitar, even harpsichord synth) on tracks I've listened to 100 times. It really adds some soul and richness to the Arya and complements the fast attack.

I'm mindful that these impressions will probably evolve as I listen more over the next couple of weeks, but so far the Bifrost is sounding like a really synergistic addition to my setup. The improvements are subtle but probably worth it to me.


----------



## RickB

Something I'm very curious about is, if the Bifrost 2 is galvanically isolated, why does plugging other things into my Mac mini's USB ports degrade the sound quality? I say this because I was using an Apple brand USB-C to USB-A adapter which I used to make backups to an external HD. I started making backups another way and removed the adapter from the Mac. I immediately noticed that the sound quality had more air with better imaging. With the adapter plugged in, the sound reminds me of entry-level vinyl in that it's rolled off.

It's nice that I got a sound quality boost, but it perplexes me as to why.


----------



## akelew

RickB said:


> Something I'm very curious about is, if the Bifrost 2 is galvanically isolated, why does plugging other things into my Mac mini's USB ports degrade the sound quality? I say this because I was using an Apple brand USB-C to USB-A adapter which I used to make backups to an external HD. I started making backups another way and removed the adapter from the Mac. I immediately noticed that the sound quality had more air with better imaging. With the adapter plugged in, the sound reminds me of entry-level vinyl in that it's rolled off.
> 
> It's nice that I got a sound quality boost, but it perplexes me as to why.


The most possible reason i can think of, is that the two usb ports share the same bus within your computer. What that means is, that multiple usb ports might share the same 'link' back to the cpu/main chipset, and so when your doing a backup transfer which is a continuous high bandwidth thing, it could induce jitter in the bifrost 2 because the bus link is being saturated.

So you may have better luck on a different USB port which doesnt share the bus. Another solution could be a PCI USB expansion card which would be more likely to use a different bus.


----------



## RickB

akelew said:


> The most possible reason i can think of, is that the two usb ports share the same bus within your computer. What that means is, that multiple usb ports might share the same 'link' back to the cpu/main chipset, and so when your doing a backup transfer which is a continuous high bandwidth thing, it could induce jitter in the bifrost 2 because the bus link is being saturated.
> 
> So you may have better luck on a different USB port which doesnt share the bus. Another solution could be a PCI USB expansion card which would be more likely to use a different bus.


Thanks. No way to upgrade a Mac mini like that, lol.


----------



## akelew (Feb 15, 2022)

RickB said:


> Thanks. No way to upgrade a Mac mini like that, lol.


Bummer. Well yeah try different usb ports (front/back too) and see how that goes.

Otherwise, the next best solution i can think of would be setting up a streamer seperate from the Mac. So like buying a Raspberry Pi 4, putting it in a case, and installing something like RoPieeeXL or Volumio on it (Which is very easy and there are guides available). That way you will always get maximum sound quality out of it, and possibly even a base line better sound overall with a dedicated device. You could also listen to it with your Mac off, and control it all from your phone (Or your mac!). Then, you could possibly still use your Bifrost to give your Mac sound, if your Mac has a toslink port you could connect the bifrost to both devices at once and switch between them.


----------



## akelew (Feb 16, 2022)

Just received my Silver Bifrost 2. It feels so much more substantial then I was expecting. It weights 2-3 times as much as I thought it would. Certainly not complaining it feels great.
Unfortunately won't be able to listen to it for a bit as still waiting for my amp(Soloist 3x) and headphones(lcd-3) to arrive which could be up to a month still. Rough.
-edit- just realised i could go straight from DAC xlr to my powered Adam monitors, so ill give that a go. Will need to control volume in windows but thats okay for now.


----------



## Xerosnake90

akelew said:


> Just received my Silver Bifrost 2. It feels so much more substantial then I was expecting. It weights 2-3 times as much as I thought it would. Certainly not complaining it feels great.
> Unfortunately won't be able to listen to it for a bit as still waiting for my amp(Soloist 3x) and headphones(lcd-3) to arrive which could be up to a month still. Rough.
> -edit- just realised i could go straight from DAC xlr to my powered Adam monitors, so ill give that a go. Will need to control volume in windows but thats okay for now.


The Soloist might be my next substantial upgrade, it seems to pair really well with the Arya that I have arriving on Friday! Cant wait to get them in and see what the Bifrost can do with it.


----------



## prismstorm

New owner of BF2 / Jot2 stack here. What is the consensus on burn-in time on the BF2 vs the warm-up time (from a fresh reboot)? After watching the recent Passion For Sound YT review of Yggy OG, he mentioned that there was practically no difference in measurement and in subjective hearing: 

 12:31 Warm-up requirements

BF2 gets extremely toasty (much more than the Jot2) after just a few hours, and I have no idea how much power it is draining if I leave it permanently on. I did leave it on overnight for the first 12 hours of ownership, only to wake up  the next morning and find out that I did not notice much difference (short-term memory is all but gone after a whole night's sleep). I also figure out that the constant heat must be detrimental to the lifespan of any electronics, so I now I switch both off before going to bed. Do the units get better with accumulative use (overall hours of usage) but not warm-up / temperature time? My ownership is less than a week so would welcome any advice from long-term owners here ~


----------



## akelew

prismstorm said:


> New owner of BF2 / Jot2 stack here. What is the consensus on burn-in time on the BF2 vs the warm-up time (from a fresh reboot)? After watching the recent Passion For Sound YT review of Yggy OG, he mentioned that there was practically no difference in measurement and in subjective hearing:
> 
> 12:31 Warm-up requirements
> 
> BF2 gets extremely toasty (much more than the Jot2) after just a few hours, and I have no idea how much power it is draining if I leave it permanently on. I did leave it on overnight for the first 12 hours of ownership, only to wake up  the next morning and find out that I did not notice much difference (short-term memory is all but gone after a whole night's sleep). I also figure out that the constant heat must be detrimental to the lifespan of any electronics, so I now I switch both off before going to bed. Do the units get better with accumulative use (overall hours of usage) but not warm-up / temperature time? My ownership is less than a week so would welcome any advice from long-term owners here ~



Can't advise on performance related to warm up, as im only half an hour in on mine, but i can say that Schiit has advised that theres no reason not to keep it on 24/7, and have seen others commenting that the idle power draw is very low.


----------



## akelew (Feb 16, 2022)

(Very initial) first impressions!

Windows 11 -> Roon -> Supra USB -> Bifrost 2 (Unison exclusive mode, with dsp volume) -> Bluejeans XLR -> Adam F7 nearfield monitors

I really thought I had kept my expectations in check on this one.. I wasn't anticipating some revolutionary improvement over my (already apparently by measurements a pretty good implementation of a) ESS Sabre dac built into my motherboard. 'All dacs sound the same yada yada'. I kind of viewed Dacs as a means to an end.

But this is a transformation. The clarity, speed, body, soundstage, dynamics, have all really swept me off my feet.

Needless to say i'm pretty happy. Very keen to see how it goes with the lcd3/soloist 3x when they arrive.

-edit-
I am having an issue though  Roon keeps crashing on me when playing through the bifrost in exclusive mode.. Havent had this happen before. Did a reinstall, same thing.. Happens every few songs midway..


----------



## Xerosnake90

akelew said:


> (Very initial) first impressions!
> 
> Windows 11 -> Roon -> Supra USB -> Bifrost 2 (Unison exclusive mode, with dsp volume) -> Bluejeans XLR -> Adam F7 nearfield monitors
> 
> ...


Kinda makes you realize how measurements don't mean much of anything and that folks telling you all DACs sound the same have no idea what they're on about. Glad you're enjoying it

Sorry about the Roon issue I'm not sure on that. Search the forum I'm sure there's an answer


----------



## kumar402

akelew said:


> (Very initial) first impressions!
> 
> Windows 11 -> Roon -> Supra USB -> Bifrost 2 (Unison exclusive mode, with dsp volume) -> Bluejeans XLR -> Adam F7 nearfield monitors
> 
> ...


I don't think we need to install any driver for it as it's UAC2 complaint. Could you check if other players like Audirvana or Qobuz or Tidal are working fine? If other are working fine then we may have issue with Roon. 
PS- I'm not Windows user myself but just curious.


----------



## akelew (Feb 16, 2022)

Xerosnake90 said:


> Kinda makes you realize how measurements don't mean much of anything and that folks telling you all DACs sound the same have no idea what they're on about. Glad you're enjoying it
> 
> Sorry about the Roon issue I'm not sure on that. Search the forum I'm sure there's an answer


I keep looking across my room randomly towards my speakers as they grab my attention because of how realistic it sounds and the speed of the sound. Like transients seem to just come in and out of existence with an authority and speed and naturalness that's unlike anything ive heard before. I feel like i can crank up the volume to levels previously uncomfortable without it becoming unbearable. It feels like a whole new layer of music is uncovered, everything is so effortless!

Roon seems to be doing a bit better now. I did a reboot, played around with some settings, and changed windows output to a different device then the bifrost in exclusive mode. All windows sound came through all glitchy through my secondary speaker when set to the bifrost while in exclusive mode, weird.

-edit- Roon issue is a known problem with latest update on windows 11, is being worked on by team


----------



## carbonF1

prismstorm said:


> New owner of BF2 / Jot2 stack here. What is the consensus on burn-in time on the BF2 vs the warm-up time (from a fresh reboot)?


For me, maybe 2-8 hours max (or overnight if I am away for a few days)



prismstorm said:


> BF2 gets extremely toasty (much more than the Jot2) after just a few hours, and I have no idea how much power it is draining if I leave it permanently on. I did leave it on overnight for the first 12 hours of ownership, only to wake up  the next morning and find out that I did not notice much difference (short-term memory is all but gone after a whole night's sleep). I also figure out that the constant heat must be detrimental to the lifespan of any electronics, so I now I switch both off before going to bed. Do the units get better with accumulative use (overall hours of usage) but not warm-up / temperature time? My ownership is less than a week so would welcome any advice from long-term owners here ~


Not sure what the reference point for Jot 2 is (if it runs cold) but "extremely toasty" does not sound normal. Mine is generally warm to the touch, but "extremely toasty" for me is Valhalla 2 w/o socket savers after running for an hour. If my Bifrost 2 started running as hot as Valhalla I'd be very concerned.

I do not think leaving it on 24/7 is detrimental to its lifespan. Multiple on/off cycles maybe moreso, kind of like how a car engine goes through most of its wear starting up.

I would like to think that as the capacitors "burn in" the sound improves, but that might be a bit subjective and don't know enough to make a solid argument one way or the other. I just enjoy it for what it is 



prismstorm said:


> After watching the recent Passion For Sound YT review of Yggy OG, he mentioned that there was practically no difference in measurement and in subjective hearing:
> 
> 12:31 Warm-up requirements




Thanks for sharing, I will admit I have a bit of nervosa right now since I switched to running the BF2 using balanced out exclusively and am thinking of upgrading to Gungnir or Yggy. This might help cull some of that (ok, my wallet being empty is going to cull all of it, but still).


----------



## MardukSonofEa

Have other fellow Bifrost 2 owners played with the invert phase button much? I randomly used it on a couple of songs and didn't notice a difference. Curious if anyone has found a track it really makes a positive impact on - or how one might judge which tracks it might work well on.


----------



## Luckyleo

MardukSonofEa said:


> Have other fellow Bifrost 2 owners played with the invert phase button much? I randomly used it on a couple of songs and didn't notice a difference. Curious if anyone has found a track it really makes a positive impact on - or how one might judge which tracks it might work well on.


Hey now!  I've played around with it as well.  I can't hear a difference.  Also, FYI, the invert lite has never come on.  So at this point I don't even think about it.  I suppose if the warning light ever comes on I'll use it and see if it makes any difference to me.


----------



## Xerosnake90

I find my Bifrost 2 to be much warmer (temp wise) than the Jot 2. I was concerned about it at first but it never seems to get warmer than it usually is. I added a Lokius to the stack as well and with 1/2 tall feet for some venting they stay the same


----------



## prismstorm

carbonF1 said:


> For me, maybe 2-8 hours max (or overnight if I am away for a few days)
> 
> 
> Not sure what the reference point for Jot 2 is (if it runs cold) but "extremely toasty" does not sound normal. Mine is generally warm to the touch, but "extremely toasty" for me is Valhalla 2 w/o socket savers after running for an hour. If my Bifrost 2 started running as hot as Valhalla I'd be very concerned.
> ...


I have no experience with Valhalla but my Bifrost 2 just seems to get hotter and hotter with use. I do not know whether leaving it on 24/7 or starting it up whenever I use it do more damage, will have to investigate ... I just do not want a giant electricity bill. Are you getting rid of your BF2 soon to go up to an Yggy? Which 'flavor' are you going for?


Xerosnake90 said:


> I find my Bifrost 2 to be much warmer (temp wise) than the Jot 2. I was concerned about it at first but it never seems to get warmer than it usually is. I added a Lokius to the stack as well and with 1/2 tall feet for some venting they stay the same


Same, BF2 much warmer (even hot to touch) than Jot 2, funnily enough as Jot 2 is the one amplifying and pushing power ... I want to enquire how you add the Lokius to the stack? Is it Source > Bifrost 2 > XLR > Lokius > XLR > Jot 2? Do you have three sockets for each of the units or do you run them off a power strip extender?


----------



## RickB

prismstorm said:


> I have no experience with Valhalla but my Bifrost 2 just seems to get hotter and hotter with use. I do not know whether leaving it on 24/7 or starting it up whenever I use it do more damage, will have to investigate ... I just do not want a giant electricity bill. Are you getting rid of your BF2 soon to go up to an Yggy? Which 'flavor' are you going for?
> 
> Same, BF2 much warmer (even hot to touch) than Jot 2, funnily enough as Jot 2 is the one amplifying and pushing power ... I want to enquire how you add the Lokius to the stack? Is it Source > Bifrost 2 > XLR > Lokius > XLR > Jot 2? Do you have three sockets for each of the units or do you run them off a power strip extender?


I bought some add-on rubber feet to increase the gap under my Bifrost and between the Bifrost and Jotunheim. Now my Bifrost only gets slightly warm, and I live in S. Florida. 

There are many on Amazon, but this is what I ended up settling on:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B87SRRG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Xerosnake90

prismstorm said:


> I have no experience with Valhalla but my Bifrost 2 just seems to get hotter and hotter with use. I do not know whether leaving it on 24/7 or starting it up whenever I use it do more damage, will have to investigate ... I just do not want a giant electricity bill. Are you getting rid of your BF2 soon to go up to an Yggy? Which 'flavor' are you going for?
> 
> Same, BF2 much warmer (even hot to touch) than Jot 2, funnily enough as Jot 2 is the one amplifying and pushing power ... I want to enquire how you add the Lokius to the stack? Is it Source > Bifrost 2 > XLR > Lokius > XLR > Jot 2? Do you have three sockets for each of the units or do you run them off a power strip extender?


Lokius is warmest of all, followed by BF2 and then Jot. Yea I go into BF2 using optical, XLR to Lokius, Lokius XLR to Jot 2. Xlr to headphones. I run them off a single power strip


----------



## prismstorm

Xerosnake90 said:


> Lokius is warmest of all, followed by BF2 and then Jot. Yea I go into BF2 using optical, XLR to Lokius, Lokius XLR to Jot 2. Xlr to headphones. I run them off a single power strip


Thanks, I am deciding whether to add a Lokius to my BF2 / Jot2 chain, I also don't understand why the Loki Max is several times the price of the Lokius, whereas even the Lokius at its price point is already balanced. Does the Lokius make any appreciable difference to your stack? Does running all 3 units off a single power strip cause any power deficiency or negative sound changes or heat issues?


----------



## Xerosnake90

prismstorm said:


> Thanks, I am deciding whether to add a Lokius to my BF2 / Jot2 chain, I also don't understand why the Loki Max is several times the price of the Lokius, whereas even the Lokius at its price point is already balanced. Does the Lokius make any appreciable difference to your stack? Does running all 3 units off a single power strip cause any power deficiency or negative sound changes or heat issues?


Have you gotten into digital EQ already? I'd suggest starting there before jumping onto the Lokius. That being said I find having a physical EQ device like the Lokius to be superior. Digital EQ tends to have a noticeable degradation in sound quality where the Lokius does not have this issue. I find it quite fun to use, it has taught me even better what I'm listening for in those frequency ranges and I can quickly change a song to sound more along the lines of what I think will sound better. 

I don't think much of having everything plugged into the same power strip. I could calculate the current load of all devices but since it's not tripping any breakers I don't believe it to be an issue.


----------



## akelew (Feb 17, 2022)

So i just noticed some odd behaviour with the Bifrost 2.
They are connected to my Adam F7 powered monitors via balanced XLR. These speakers go into a sleep mode if they dont get any input for a while and will wake up after a moment of loud enough sound input. When they power back up, roon suddenly drops the connection to the Bifrost 2 and requires me to restart Roon for it to show back up as an available device.

I do remember in the past sometimes when the speakers would go out of standby my old monitor would briefly flicker black and then come back on. So I'm guessing this is power surge related somehow.

Any ideas?


----------



## prismstorm

Xerosnake90 said:


> Have you gotten into digital EQ already? I'd suggest starting there before jumping onto the Lokius. That being said I find having a physical EQ device like the Lokius to be superior. Digital EQ tends to have a noticeable degradation in sound quality where the Lokius does not have this issue. I find it quite fun to use, it has taught me even better what I'm listening for in those frequency ranges and I can quickly change a song to sound more along the lines of what I think will sound better.
> 
> I don't think much of having everything plugged into the same power strip. I could calculate the current load of all devices but since it's not tripping any breakers I don't believe it to be an issue.


I don't like EQ as I prefer to hear gear in their native state, but why I'm thinking to get a Lokius is because it would teach me more about what each frequency is doing to the music and I can learn more about my own tastes in the process. And if I still dislike it I can always just put it in bypass mode.

 Glad to know that BF2 / Lokius / Jot2 can all work from a single power strip, since my listening corner doesn't have three individual wall sockets.


----------



## akelew

prismstorm said:


> I'm thinking to get a Lokius is because it would teach me more about what each frequency is doing to the music and I can learn more about my own tastes in the process. And if I still dislike it I can always just put it in bypass mode.


Probably better to play with APO/Peace rather then buy a lokius. Because if your planning on possibly just not using it and leaving it in the chain doing nothing if you dont like it, that wouldnt be good because its just an unnecessary extra step in your signal chain. You can setup apo/peace to do exactly the same as lokius just in software, and if you like it, you could then buy lokius if you want the physical control.


----------



## Xerosnake90

prismstorm said:


> I don't like EQ as I prefer to hear gear in their native state, but why I'm thinking to get a Lokius is because it would teach me more about what each frequency is doing to the music and I can learn more about my own tastes in the process. And if I still dislike it I can always just put it in bypass mode.
> 
> Glad to know that BF2 / Lokius / Jot2 can all work from a single power strip, since my listening corner doesn't have three individual wall sockets.


Save yourself $300 and use a digital EQ instead to get a feel for frequencies and how they change the sound to your liking


----------



## Smoothstereo

Chiming in with my experience about leaving BF2 on all the time vs on when needed for listening, I did not notice any significant differences in sound performance when I left it on all week vs 1 hour. If there was a difference, it might be so subtle its negligible for me.


----------



## emorrison33 (Feb 18, 2022)

Smoothstereo said:


> Chiming in with my experience about leaving BF2 on all the time vs on when needed for listening, I did not notice any significant differences in sound performance when I left it on all week vs 1 hour. If there was a difference, it might be so subtle its negligible for me.


I recall reading on here, quite a few posts, that Schiit recommends keeping their multibit DAC's on all the time.  In an interview with Mike M. he says something about it too. Sorry can't find the interview online.  This is an excerpt from the Yggy manual:





Doesn't necessarily say you should leave them on for better sound, just that you can.  I find my Bifrost 2 sounds better (cleaner, more space maybe), from a cold start, after about 4 to 6 hours.  Really small differences though.  But I do leave it on all the time with an occasional shut down every week or two overnight.
Chiming in on the heat topic, when I had my Bifrost 2 stacked underneath the Lokius and then the Jot 2 on top, the Bifrost was the hottest piece of equipment in the stack.

Edit to add:  Bifrost 2 power consumption is 12W.  That's nothing in my book.  An iPad charger is 5W I think.


----------



## mab1376

emorrison33 said:


> I recall reading on here, quite a few posts, that Schiit recommends keeping their multibit DAC's on all the time.  In an interview with Mike M. he says something about it too. Sorry can't find the interview online.  This is an excerpt from the Yggy manual:
> 
> 
> Doesn't necessarily say you should leave them on for better sound, just that you can.  I find my Bifrost 2 sounds better (cleaner, more space maybe), from a cold start, after about 4 to 6 hours.  Really small differences though.  But I do leave it on all the time with an occasional shut down every week or two overnight.
> ...


I recall that as well, for yggy I seem to recall him saying 3 days for the unit to settle down.

however: https://goldensound.audio/2021/11/29/schiit-yggdrasil-og-measurements-one-month-warmup-test/


----------



## Xerosnake90

mab1376 said:


> I recall that as well, for yggy I seem to recall him saying 3 days for the unit to settle down.
> 
> however: https://goldensound.audio/2021/11/29/schiit-yggdrasil-og-measurements-one-month-warmup-test/


Measurements? Booooo


----------



## Smoothstereo

I have read most Yggy and Gumby owners swear by leaving the dac on all the time cause it sounds better to them. However, for Bifrost 2, its not that universally viewed that way from what I gathered and my own experience.

No right or wrong here, people should do what's best for them.


----------



## DenverW

I have one at work and one at home, and I leave them both on.  No issues whatsoever.  I had a gumby before that I also left on all the time without issue.


----------



## DenverW

So I previously had a Gumby and "downgraded" to a bifrost 2.  I'm curious to all the current and former BF2 owners:  how far up the ladder do you need to go to find a noticable improvement in sound to the bifrost 2?  Previously I didn't mind the downgrade because my amp may not have been as revealing.  

I've been looking into chord, denafrips, and other brands.  Anyone feel that it was worth it, or stick with the BF2, which is excellent?


----------



## mab1376

DenverW said:


> So I previously had a Gumby and "downgraded" to a bifrost 2.  I'm curious to all the current and former BF2 owners:  how far up the ladder do you need to go to find a noticable improvement in sound to the bifrost 2?  Previously I didn't mind the downgrade because my amp may not have been as revealing.
> 
> I've been looking into chord, denafrips, and other brands.  Anyone feel that it was worth it, or stick with the BF2, which is excellent?


My only real comparison is my ps audio nuwave dac, and the bf2 definately is my preference between the 2. The Ares II is appealing to me but i want to audition it before making the leap since i like the bf2 so much.


----------



## Xerosnake90 (Feb 20, 2022)

DenverW said:


> So I previously had a Gumby and "downgraded" to a bifrost 2.  I'm curious to all the current and former BF2 owners:  how far up the ladder do you need to go to find a noticable improvement in sound to the bifrost 2?  Previously I didn't mind the downgrade because my amp may not have been as revealing.
> 
> I've been looking into chord, denafrips, and other brands.  Anyone feel that it was worth it, or stick with the BF2, which is excellent?


I feel like you'd need to jump into that 1k+ category to get a noticeable upgrade as opposed to a side grade like the Ares II. I don't know if I'll upgrade DAC until I can spring for an Yggy

I'm more interested in upgrading my Amp at this point. I'm very satisfied with the BF2


----------



## carbonF1

DenverW said:


> So I previously had a Gumby and "downgraded" to a bifrost 2.  I'm curious to all the current and former BF2 owners:  how far up the ladder do you need to go to find a noticable improvement in sound to the bifrost 2?  Previously I didn't mind the downgrade because my amp may not have been as revealing.
> 
> I've been looking into chord, denafrips, and other brands.  Anyone feel that it was worth it, or stick with the BF2, which is excellent?



Funny you say that, as I'm planning on purchasing a Gumby as a replacement for my Bifrost 2, mostly so I can take advantage of a fully balanced hardware design and built-in clock management. With what I've been looking at, any true upgrade would be at least $1k+ USD, and the "wow! improvement!" factor starting well into the $2k+ USD range (Holo Audio Spring, Yggdrasil for new, Luxman DA-06 and PS Audio Directstream for used). To me all of those options seem overkill for a headphone rig. I will most likely repurpose the Bifrost for whenever the time comes to dive into speakers.


----------



## RickB

Has anyone here heard Spoon's album Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga as rendered by B2? It's incredible...


----------



## Tralfaz

DenverW said:


> So I previously had a Gumby and "downgraded" to a bifrost 2.  I'm curious to all the current and former BF2 owners:  how far up the ladder do you need to go to find a noticable improvement in sound to the bifrost 2?  Previously I didn't mind the downgrade because my amp may not have been as revealing.
> 
> I've been looking into chord, denafrips, and other brands.  Anyone feel that it was worth it, or stick with the BF2, which is excellent?


I've had this same thought but have so far held off because I don't think I've gotten the best out of the BF2 yet.

Previously I've posted about the surprising improvements I realized by using a quality USB cable between my iMac and BF2, first an AQ Cinnamon and then an AQ Carbon.

I recently replaced the Mogami interconnects I was using between my BF2 and the Linear Tube Audio MZ2-S with a pair of Discovery Signature interconnects I "borrowed" from my main system and was (once again) impressed by the improvements: greater soundstage depth, more solid images, more open presentation with instrumental and vocal lines easier to follow.

There may be performance yet to be wrung out of the BF2 though it's also possible it's now as good as it will get (or at least close to it), we'll see.  Regardless, I'm a good place with the BF2 and am holding off replacing it for foreseeable future.

Good luck with your search, wherever it takes you!


----------



## Guipnox

Rice pudding + Schiit Bifrost 2 + Little Dot Mkii with Voskhod Rocket 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-E + Crown D75-A + Hifiman HE6seV2 = *FeelsAmazingMan*


----------



## sennfan83261 (Feb 21, 2022)

Guipnox said:


> Rice pudding + Schiit Bifrost 2 + Little Dot Mkii with Voskhod Rocket 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-E + Crown D75-A + Hifiman HE6seV2 = *FeelsAmazingMan*


A good thing about those old workhorse Crowns is that the SE out does not have resistors in series, so technically one should get the same power output from the SE out and the rear speaker taps. In other words, one doesn't need to get a adapter (speaker taps to 4pin xlr) for those amps.

Dude why so many of them? Thinking about running two of them as monoblocks?


----------



## Guipnox

sennfan83261 said:


> A good thing about those old workhorse Crowns is that the SE out does not have resistors in series, so technically one should get the same power output from the SE out and the rear speaker taps. In other words, one doesn't need to get a adapter (speaker taps to 4pin xlr) for those amps.
> 
> Dude why so many of them? Thinking about running two of them as monoblocks?


Yeah, they are pretty straight forward to use. Just plug your headphones.
With a preamp, you can even use them to power dynamic/sensible headphones.

I bought the first one after we talked, remember? I liked it a lot, then bought 2 other ones to resell and keep one for me.
Too bad the middle one in the pic (the first one I bought) is defective. Me and my wife tried them all and there are sound differences between them.
We are going to blind test a lot during the following days in order to verify that and to compare Bifrost 2 with my interface's (Audient iD4 mkii) DAC.
Unfortunately, the usb cable I'm using isn't the original provided by Schiit. It's a printer one my dad has here lol
But I bought a Oyaide NEO d+ Class A USB Cable from Amazon US. It should arrive here in Brazil in 15-20 days.
I still need XLR interconnects, replaceable grills and a cable for my HE6seV2. 

I don't know how to run two of them as monoblocks. But maybe I can do it.


----------



## sennfan83261

Guipnox said:


> I don't know how to run two of them as monoblocks. But maybe I can do it.


I remember our exchanges. My post was just am FYI to everyone else. As for running two of them in mono mode (Google Crown D75a manual, manuallibs website has it), that manual says that it must be set internally by the factory. I forgot about that part. Glad to see that you are enjoying that amp. It also works well with more sensitive planars like my LCD-3, HEKv1, and HE500. Nice macrodynamics.


----------



## akelew

Guipnox said:


> Rice pudding + Schiit Bifrost 2 + Little Dot Mkii with Voskhod Rocket 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-E + Crown D75-A + Hifiman HE6seV2 = *FeelsAmazingMan*



How does the rice pudding affect it? Is it cold, warm? And how textured is it? Looks pretty full bodied, coming from an open back! Is that an equalizer you have on it? Did you use that to scoop anything?


----------



## Luckyleo

DenverW said:


> So I previously had a Gumby and "downgraded" to a bifrost 2.  I'm curious to all the current and former BF2 owners:  how far up the ladder do you need to go to find a noticable improvement in sound to the bifrost 2?  Previously I didn't mind the downgrade because my amp may not have been as revealing.
> 
> I've been looking into chord, denafrips, and other brands.  Anyone feel that it was worth it, or stick with the BF2, which is excellent?


Good question!  However, the people in this thread may have a bias towards BF2..... Just guessing though


----------



## DenverW

Luckyleo said:


> Good question!  However, the people in this thread may have a bias towards BF2..... Just guessing though


I do too!  If I didn’t like the B2 so much I wouldn’t be struggling to find an upgrade under 2k .


----------



## theveterans

Luckyleo said:


> Good question!  However, the people in this thread may have a bias towards BF2..... Just guessing though



Agreed. Unless you prefer a leaner signature but with more resolution in the bass, a GMB A2 would suffice. However, a true step up to me is Yggdrasil LIM. Pretty much take BF2's strengths (e.g. black background), add that TOTL tonality to it and further refine the soundstage depth (BF2 tends to stage slightly further back while LIM expands that evenly from front to back)


----------



## Lovebox

Guipnox said:


> Rice pudding + Schiit Bifrost 2 + Little Dot Mkii with Voskhod Rocket 6J1P-EV / 6ZH1P-E + Crown D75-A + Hifiman HE6seV2 = *FeelsAmazingMan*


Didn't know Casio doing DAPs now, awesome!


----------



## adydula

adydula said:


> Had both the phonitor and Jot 1 and Jot 2 here with Bifrost 1 and Bifrost 2.
> 
> I preferred the combination of the Bifrost 2 with the Jot 2 over the phonitor here with Hedds, Empyreans, Focal Clears and HD600 and Hd650.
> I actually had a $5495 Chord Hugo TT2 here and the Jot 2 was as good as the amp and the B2 as good as the dac in the Chord.
> ...


The Hedds, Focals and Meze are gone, replaced with Final Audio D8000 Pros, ADX 5000 and HD 650 (still) and I still stand by these comments for the Schiit Bifrost 2 and the Jot 2. Superb setup..

Alex


----------



## lolhahaha

Ordered on Tuesday. Schitt says 2-4 weeks wait for shipping. I expected to possibly have to wait a month.

My silver Bifrost2 shipped the next day and almost got here today!


----------



## mab1376

Any idea they're they're going to release new DAC modules that make use of the new TI chips they're using on the Yggdrasil nowadays? 

e.g. TI DAC8812 and TI DAC11001


----------



## emorrison33

mab1376 said:


> Any idea they're they're going to release new DAC modules that make use of the new TI chips they're using on the Yggdrasil nowadays?
> 
> e.g. TI DAC8812 and TI DAC11001


I haven't seen or heard anything myself. But you never know !


----------



## carbonF1

Anyone have success in rolling in/upgrading power cables on the BF2? I recently put in a silver monosaudio 14AWG cord (this one) and didn't think much in terms of sound quality differences, until I took it out and put the "courtesy" cord back in. At least between those two, I think I prefer the sound of the stock cable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , which is too bad, the silver power cord looks really, really good hooked up to the BF2. I have an audioquest NRG-Y3 en route but that probably won't be hooked up for long either.


----------



## adydula

carbonF1 said:


> Anyone have success in rolling in/upgrading power cables on the BF2? I recently put in a silver monosaudio 14AWG cord (this one) and didn't think much in terms of sound quality differences, until I took it out and put the "courtesy" cord back in. At least between those two, I think I prefer the sound of the stock cable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ , which is too bad, the silver power cord looks really, really good hooked up to the BF2. I have an audioquest NRG-Y3 en route but that probably won't be hooked up for long either.


Seriously ?
Wow...


----------



## mab1376

adydula said:


> Seriously ?
> Wow...


If the power supply is designed well, it really shouldn't make a difference unless the stock one has some defect imo.


----------



## adydula

mab1376 said:


> If the power supply is designed well, it really shouldn't make a difference unless the stock one has some defect imo.


What exactly does designed well mean?
And its relationship to the power cord?

Inquiring minds want to know ?


----------



## carbonF1

adydula said:


> Seriously ?
> Wow...



Care to elaborate? I've heard improvements to my ears replacing USB, Coax, XLRs, but not yet with power cables. I was simply wondering if I was missing something. If I'm not, then great.


----------



## mab1376

adydula said:


> What exactly does designed well mean?
> And its relationship to the power cord?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know ?


Take a read through this

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/power-cables


----------



## adydula

mab1376 said:


> Take a read through this
> 
> https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/power-cables


Power cables are a different matter.  At no point in use do they carry signals--they simply convey power from your home's main supply to your devices' power supplies.  This is important, to be sure, and without a power cable your system isn't going to do very much at all, but the question of course is not whether the cable is essential but whether there are differences in performance between reasonably-well-constructed power cords, and on that question we have to say that the answer is simply "*NO*."

So what device does not have a reasonably well- constructed power cord?


----------



## mab1376

adydula said:


> Power cables are a different matter.  At no point in use do they carry signals--they simply convey power from your home's main supply to your devices' power supplies.  This is important, to be sure, and without a power cable your system isn't going to do very much at all, but the question of course is not whether the cable is essential but whether there are differences in performance between reasonably-well-constructed power cords, and on that question we have to say that the answer is simply "*NO*."
> 
> So what device does not have a reasonably well- constructed power cord?


I haven't come across one and would most likely expect poor performance to be a defect in most cases.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Apr 17, 2022)

I use Pangea AC-14 power cables on my BF2s and all my audio gear where applicable.  Can't say I hear a notable difference, but they seem better shielded than typical power cables and my objective was to minimize potential EMI being picked up by my interconnects.  Cable tidiness is an area which needs more of my attention.  😄


----------



## mab1376 (Mar 20, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> I use Pangea AC-14 power cables on my BF2s and all my audio hear where applicable.  Can't say I hear and audible difference, but  they seem better shielded than typical power cables and my objective was to minimize potential EMI being picked up by my interconnects.  Cable tidiness is an area which needs more of my attention.  😄


Those cables are reasonably priced and I'm mostly opposed to things in the hundreds of dollars range.

In most cases where there is an improvement, a surge protector with EMI shielding and the stock cable would have done the same job IMO. Cable routing can also fix EMI to interconnects rather than expensive shielded cables, but your environment and needs may vary there, so it's use-case based and understandable.

I use stock cables on everything and with cyber power UPS' (surge output only on audio gear), or Furman power strips both with EMI/RFI filtering.

https://www.amazon.com/Furman-SS6B-Power-Conditioner/dp/B0002D017M?th=1

in scenarios with atrocious wall power, an isolation transformer/regenerator may be needed. but it's fixing a problem, and bringing performance up to baseline, not improving anything beyond that, and the cables from that device to the audio gear shouldn't make a huge difference.

I'm a firm believer in the theory of diminishing returns. As you spend more and more, sure you're Improving things, but for an imperceptible audible benefit.


----------



## adydula

I didnt want to get into a power cables are a great way to improve your sound etc....system or experience.
Whether replacing a power cord with a different one improves anything has been debated for years....

IMO....you just throwing your money down the toilet.

But there are some really nice toilets out there! 
LOL!


----------



## kumar402

Well if we take the OP comments, he did hear a difference between the silver power cable and stock one, just that he liked the stock one but  having a preference over another cable proves that he heard a difference. 

I do feel a good power cable make a difference and more so in apartments then in individual houses.


----------



## adydula

We all hear differences or we think we do...
This subjective opinion proves nothing concrete.

If you think it makes a difference well that's great...
Many do not....

So many other things to spend your dollars on that really do make a much discernible difference....
We are really in the mud here....


----------



## Smoothstereo

I learned not to talk about "after market cables or burn in" in these headfi threads, as this will lead to moderators deleting such posts. Just stick to what makes you happy.😁


----------



## adydula

Agree.....there are other threads that you can opine on the value of power cables and the like....best to take these discussions over there!

:>)


----------



## Ripper2860

Is it just me or is anyone hoping Schiit will introduce new firmwares for BF2.  Now that I'm on a tube rolling hiatus with my amps, I'd like to roll firmware with my BF2.  😄


----------



## Smoothstereo

I always wished for Schiit to provide user selectable digital filter options on their DACs. That would be nice to have to change things up sonically once in a while.


----------



## mab1376

adydula said:


> Agree.....there are other threads that you can opine on the value of power cables and the like....best to take these discussions over there!
> 
> :>)


At a certain point, I start calling it audio jewelry.   

Like with cars you can spend $100k to go 200MPH or a few million to go 262MPH. The price to performance curve gets way too steep at a certain point and returns exponentially diminishing.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Bassic Needs said:


> I seem to have a USB problem with a new Bifrost 2.
> The set up is at my office. Each morning I power on the BF2, Lokius, and Vali 2, and connect my Samsung Galaxy Fold 3 phone as the source via USB-C to USB-B cable to the BF2.  It works fine. However, if I disconnect my phone to walk away from my desk, when I come back and reconnect the phone the BF2 never detects a USB connection and wont play music. The BF2 doesnt do any clicking or anything,  like it normally does when it initially detects a USB connection. I have to unplug the BF2's AC power cable, and switch the power on/off many times before  it willl detect the USB/phone again. Its a real pain in the ass. The Modi 3/Loki Mini stack at my desk does not have this problem.
> Have others had problems with BF2 detecting USB?


Hey all. An update is overdue but in case anyone learns from my experience:
1. Schiit sent a replacement BF2, but the problem persisted.
2. Further research on Schiits website led to me finding a FAQ to try a USB powered hub.
3. Problem solved,  the connection between my phone and BF2 is no longer an issue.
4. I wish Schiit support had suggested that. It would have saved both parties time and effort.

I've been loving the BF2. Its made me itch for a Yggy. Even if I do upgrade my headfi stack, I'll still probably happily reallocate the BF2 to a 2-ch speaker setup elsewhere in my home.


----------



## Bassic Needs (Apr 6, 2022)

Bassic Needs said:


> I seem to have a USB problem with a new Bifrost 2.
> The set up is at my office. Each morning I power on the BF2, Lokius, and Vali 2, and connect my Samsung Galaxy Fold 3 phone as the source via USB-C to USB-B cable to the BF2.  It works fine. However, if I disconnect my phone to walk away from my desk, when I come back and reconnect the phone the BF2 never detects a USB connection and wont play music. The BF2 doesnt do any clicking or anything,  like it normally does when it initially detects a USB connection. I have to unplug the BF2's AC power cable, and switch the power on/off many times before  it willl detect the USB/phone again. Its a real pain in the ass. The Modi 3/Loki Mini stack at my desk does not have this problem.
> Have others had problems with BF2 detecting USB?





theveterans said:


> Unison does not have the "low power flag" that lets low power devices pass through data and power. To circumvent this, get a self-powered USB hub and you should be good to go


This one sentence ...! I wish Schiit had this on their site or in their manuals.
Seems like a design oversight, unless they had a good performance reason to go that route.


----------



## Neweymatt

Bassic Needs said:


> Hey all. An update is overdue but in case anyone learns from my experience:
> 1. Schiit sent a replacement BF2, but the problem persisted.
> 2. Further research on Schiits website led to me finding a FAQ to try a USB powered hub.
> 3. Problem solved,  the connection between my phone and BF2 is no longer an issue.
> ...


Huh, that's weird.  I've never had to use a powered USB adapter with BF2, but I pretty much always do with the ESS card in the Asgard3, even when using my MacBook Air as a source.

Both are UnisonUSB, but they seem to power their USB interfaces differently...or the same in your case?  That's what I don't understand.


----------



## akelew

Neweymatt said:


> Huh, that's weird.  I've never had to use a powered USB adapter with BF2, but I pretty much always do with the ESS card in the Asgard3, even when using my MacBook Air as a source.
> 
> Both are UnisonUSB, but they seem to power their USB interfaces differently...or the same in your case?  That's what I don't understand.


I think its something to do with the USB-OTG on the phone


----------



## Bassic Needs

akelew said:


> I think its something to do with the USB-OTG on the phone


In my unqualified opinion it is a Bifrost2 implementation problem not a cell phone problem. This never happened with my Modi 3, Modius, Dragonfly Red, or dongle dacs.


----------



## KrauserX91

Hello guys,

I have a Jot2 with ES9028 module and I will upgrade DAC sometime.

My first option is Bifrost 2, but other two in mind are Ares II and ADI-2:
- Bifrost 2, 800€, and I have the Jot2 to stack with it, I guess is the best afordable stack
- Ares II, 900€, people say only amazing things about this and the toroid inside (even I have read some people saying the toroid became an essential component of modern DACs, and without that is not a DAC because affects negatively to sound), dont have controller
- ADI-2, 1000€, the most expensive, but all those features are amazing, you have always an EQ with you , complete contoller, which makes it more capable for TV or consoles.

The thing is when I search comparisons people saying this is warmer, that has more soundstage and 3D sound, that other is flat, blah blah, and makes me not to decide.

But as far I understand:
- Bifrost 2 has the more natural sound
- Ares II has the best resolution, soundstage, 3D space, etc
- ADI-2 is flat but has the interface with all the features compensate it

Bifrost, with more natural sound comparing to Ares, means that Bifrost reproduces the music as it is and the Ares make upsampling to get that sharpness sound?

Another thing is I dont listen DSD, too lazy to search for it, I am ok with streaming services 

But what are your personal thoughts? Have you the chance to compared some of them?


----------



## Mightygrey

The Bifrost sounds great, it's the cheapest, and matches perfectly with your Jot when stacked. If you don't listen to DSD it's a pretty safe pick.


----------



## KrauserX91 (Apr 22, 2022)

Mightygrey said:


> The Bifrost sounds great, it's the cheapest, and matches perfectly with your Jot when stacked. If you don't listen to DSD it's a pretty safe pick.


Thank you! Suddenly after 2 month  new stock for EU plug appeared and I ordered it . I can replace the ADI-2 EQ feature with Lokius later, mostly to use it when playing some console like Switch or PS5. For PC will still using the APO ofc, far better.


----------



## lostrockets

whats  the difference between the multibit of bifrost 2 vs the other multibit dacs like asgard or modi? is the sound pretty similar?


----------



## davidfrance

lostrockets said:


> whats  the difference between the multibit of bifrost 2 vs the other multibit dacs like asgard or modi? is the sound pretty similar?


I have a multibit card in my Asgard 3, and I also have a Bifrost 2.

Your question, well yes, the sound is "pretty similar". The multibit card is not bad. But you can also say that the sound from the Bifrost 2 is "noticeably better". How much better ? Enough that you can notice it. But they are also "pretty similar".


----------



## KrauserX91 (Apr 27, 2022)

I cannot compare multibit, but I am listening my new Bifrost 2 delivered today and I can tell right now the sound changed from the Jot2 with ES9028  module.

I can feel the difference, but I could not tell yet differences in detail, my ear is not enough trained in hifi.

What I could notice in terms of quality, with the Edition XS, which is a bit bright and sometimes in the high can crunch a bit my ears, specially with agressive violins or female vocals, and that does not happen in Bifrost. I think bifrost softened the high a bit. With the LCD-X is simply flawless and clean.


----------



## LowBeat

theveterans said:


> Unison does not have the "low power flag" that lets low power devices pass through data and power. To circumvent this, get a self-powered USB hub and you should be good to go



Thanks for the tip. Can you explain how the connection works? If I connect the Bitfrost 2 to the HUB via USB, how do I connect the mobile phone to the Bitfrost 2 to use the mobile phone as the music output source? or where does the USB hub have to be connected


----------



## theveterans

LowBeat said:


> Thanks for the tip. Can you explain how the connection works? If I connect the Bitfrost 2 to the HUB via USB, how do I connect the mobile phone to the Bitfrost 2 to use the mobile phone as the music output source? or where does the USB hub have to be connected



USB Input hub is connected to the phone then another USB cable from the hub to BF2. Your phone should recognize the BF2 as long as the USB ports in the hub is self-powered


----------



## kith86

Does anyone here use Bifrost 2 with windows 11, any quirk with new OS ?!


----------



## mab1376

kith86 said:


> Does anyone here use Bifrost 2 with windows 11, any quirk with new OS ?!


No problems so far after about a month.


----------



## kith86

mab1376 said:


> No problems so far after about a month.


Just plug and play as usual right, no need additional driver ?!


----------



## KrauserX91

kith86 said:


> Just plug and play as usual right, no need additional driver ?!


For me is working, just plug & play
Check if windows doesnt detect the generic drivers, normally will appear a warning in device manager:










If you get the warning, right click, search for drivers.


----------



## mab1376

kith86 said:


> Just plug and play as usual right, no need additional driver ?!


correct


----------



## Ripper2860 (May 28, 2022)

Just make sure you set Windows for EXCLUSIVE mode audio. 

https://allthings.how/how-to-improve-audio-sound-quality-on-a-windows-11-pc/#:~:text=To enable the exclusive mode,to the exclusive mode applications.

 It's almost 1/2-way down the page.


----------



## Ufanco

Considering the Bitfrost 2, currently using a Shanling M6 pro 21 that has dual ES9068AS DAC. That’s running into Oriolus BA300S (used a preamp) into Xduoo ta20. Using mest mkii iem. 

With this setup and using Bitfrost 2 to replace the Shanling I’m concerned with the Bitfrost and tubes that it be to warm. 
The dac in the Shanling isn’t bad sounding and wondering if switching the the Bitfrost 2 would be a worthwhile upgrade?


----------



## Neweymatt

Ufanco said:


> Considering the Bitfrost 2, currently using a Shanling M6 pro 21 that has dual ES9068AS DAC. That’s running into Oriolus BA300S (used a preamp) into Xduoo ta20. Using mest mkii iem.
> 
> With this setup and using Bitfrost 2 to replace the Shanling I’m concerned with the Bitfrost and tubes that it be to warm.
> The dac in the Shanling isn’t bad sounding and wondering if switching the the Bitfrost 2 would be a worthwhile upgrade?


I don't know the M6Pro specifically, but in general you'll find the Bifrost multibit DAC to be more natural and organic vs most D/S DACs like the ESS.  I do have the ESS9028 DAC Card in my Asgard3, and I find it to be just a tad brighter and just a little less "lifelike" vs the Bifrost; mind you, not bad at all, just different.

As far as using a tube amp, I use the Vali2+ with my BF2, depending on the headphone or IEM.  This is a fantastic pairing, either on it's own or as a pre-amp to the Jot2.  I never find it "too warm" at all, although I do generally prefer a warmer kind of signature.

Ultimately, the Bifrost or other R2R DAC will give you something different than what you have in the Shanling.  Hard to say which might be "better", but they are definitely complementary, and you may prefer one or the other depending on matching your music, amp, IEM/headphone etc.


----------



## Hotdoggn

Ufanco said:


> Considering the Bitfrost 2, currently using a Shanling M6 pro 21 that has dual ES9068AS DAC. That’s running into Oriolus BA300S (used a preamp) into Xduoo ta20. Using mest mkii iem.
> 
> With this setup and using Bitfrost 2 to replace the Shanling I’m concerned with the Bitfrost and tubes that it be to warm.
> The dac in the Shanling isn’t bad sounding and wondering if switching the the Bitfrost 2 would be a worthwhile upgrade?


I have the Bifrost 2 paired with a Mjolnir 2 with Gold Lions and the pairing is actually amazing. I was a bit concerned that it would be too warm tilted too, but it certainly doesn’t feel that way. It’s important to note that I have Aryas and Monarch MKIIs, so much more neutral-bright sounding headphones/IEMs. I have no complaints or regrets so far.


----------



## RickB

Hotdoggn said:


> I have the Bifrost 2 paired with a Mjolnir 2 with Gold Lions and the pairing is actually amazing. I was a bit concerned that it would be too warm tilted too, but it certainly doesn’t feel that way. It’s important to note that I have Aryas and Monarch MKIIs, so much more neutral-bright sounding headphones/IEMs. I have no complaints or regrets so far.


Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!


----------



## Hotdoggn

RickB said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!


Thanks! I gave up hope for my wallet ages ago. It should be numb to the punishments by now.


----------



## Ufanco

Wondering if it is ok to place Bitfrost 2 vertically? With outputs on back it fit better in the area I like to use it in.


----------



## raindownthunda

Ufanco said:


> Wondering if it is ok to place Bitfrost 2 vertically? With outputs on back it fit better in the area I like to use it in.


Yes


----------



## NightFlight (Jun 5, 2022)

RickB said:


> The earth cannot be flat, because cats would've pushed everything off it by now.


I'm not worthy. That's most awesome line I've read in a long long time.

... sorry to bring up a post from 50 or so pages back. I'm just catching up...


----------



## Ufanco

I notice the Bitfrost 2 comes with a usb b to usb a I was wondering what was the best option to hook it up to usb c? Should I buy a new cable or would a otg adapter work? I have a nice usb c to c cable would a usd c to usb b work. Also what is quality of included usb cable and would it be better to instead use it with a usb a to usb c adapter.  My source is a iPad 4 air.


----------



## jnak00

I just use a plain USB B to USB C cable


----------



## Neweymatt

Ufanco said:


> I notice the Bitfrost 2 comes with a usb b to usb a I was wondering what was the best option to hook it up to usb c? Should I buy a new cable or would a otg adapter work? I have a nice usb c to c cable would a usd c to usb b work. Also what is quality of included usb cable and would it be better to instead use it with a usb a to usb c adapter.  My source is a iPad 4 air.


Bf2 doesn't ship with a USB cable:




I bought one of their cheap PYST USB-A -> USB-B cables with the BF2, and use it with the Apple "USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter" that I already had with my MacBook Pro.  

Same adapter works fine wth my M1 iPad Pro, except that if I've got the HDMI connected to an external display, that grabs the audio, not sure if/how you can redirect audio out the USB-A instead.  But at least you can charge the iPad at the same time as listening to music.

I suspect that Apple USB-C to USB Adapter would also work with a USB-C iPad, but you might want to test it first, or buy it from somewhere you can return it if it doesn't.


----------



## KrauserX91

Dont know about iPad Air 4, but this is the cable I am using from BF2 to iPad Pro and MacBook pro both M1 gen and working without problem:

https://www.amazon.com/impresora-tr...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

However, iPad Air 4 doesnt have thunderbolt, so dont know if need additional power hub.


----------



## jnak00 (Jun 7, 2022)

My iPad Air 4 works fine with the plain USB B->C cable.  I wish my stupid iPhone had USB-C instead of lightning, since virtually every other device I have is USB-C..

This is the cable I use:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0769DMN7R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ufanco

Thanks for all the helpful comments concerning cable. I guess I was mistaken on it including cable. I’m considering a used Bitfrost 2 and picture included a usb B to usb A cable so I assumed it came with unit. 
Thinking of using a adapter so glad they work.


----------



## sayitaintsoap

What is a good XLR cable for use with the Bifrost 2 and Monoprice THX amplifier? I’ve only used RCA and unbalanced before so this is my first step into balanced. I was looking at the blue jeans XLR cable. You can get the lengths custom on their website. 3ft is the cheapest. That’s not too short is it?


----------



## TheFrator

sayitaintsoap said:


> What is a good XLR cable for use with the Bifrost 2 and Monoprice THX amplifier? I’ve only used RCA and unbalanced before so this is my first step into balanced. I was looking at the blue jeans XLR cable. You can get the lengths custom on their website. 3ft is the cheapest. That’s not too short is it?


Monoprice makes solid cables. I've been using a pair of 3 FT cables for awhile now with my Bifrost.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003L18XKE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Neweymatt

sayitaintsoap said:


> What is a good XLR cable for use with the Bifrost 2 and Monoprice THX amplifier? I’ve only used RCA and unbalanced before so this is my first step into balanced. I was looking at the blue jeans XLR cable. You can get the lengths custom on their website. 3ft is the cheapest. That’s not too short is it?


I bought a pair of Schiit’s PYST XLR cables when I got the Jot2. If they’re good enough for Schiit to sell them, they’re good enough for me. 😉


----------



## sayitaintsoap

Thanks guys. I ended up going with World’s Best Cables on Amazon. Hope they’re good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00WU1ECJC?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


----------



## Mink

Well they ought to be, they are World's best cables after all....


----------



## ssmith3046

sayitaintsoap said:


> Thanks guys. I ended up going with World’s Best Cables on Amazon. Hope they’re good.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00WU1ECJC?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image


I use them but with the 2549 cable. Solid construction.


----------



## shafat777

ssmith3046 said:


> I use them but with the 2549 cable. Solid construction.


why the 2549 over the 2534? Last i heard the 2534 is quad + shielded. any reason why you chose that?


----------



## ssmith3046 (Jun 13, 2022)

shafat777 said:


> why the 2549 over the 2534? Last i heard the 2534 is quad + shielded. any reason why you chose that?


Nope. I have a pair with RCA plugs that I use so I  just stuck with the 2549 for XLR. My interconnects are short so I'm not to worried about picking up any interference.


----------



## Shane D

Has Schiit actually sent out any updates for the BF2? I have had it for about a year and a half and am curious.


----------



## Ripper2860

None other than the one they rolled out very shortly after BF2 was released.


----------



## Shane D

Ripper2860 said:


> None other than the one they rolled out very shortly after BF2 was released.


Thank you! I must admit that I never read this thread as, to me, a DAC is set and forget.


----------



## GumbyDammit223 (Jun 14, 2022)

shafat777 said:


> why the 2549 over the 2534? Last i heard the 2534 is quad + shielded. any reason why you chose that?


The 2549 has a lower capacitance per ft, lower DC resistance, and lower "microphonics" to just pick a couple numbers from the spec sheets.  Whether or not any of them makes a difference in short interconnects, God only knows and he ain't talkin'.  I did just pick up a couple pair of https://smile.amazon.com/Units-Balanced-Microphone-NC3MXX-B-NC3FXX-B/dp/B09799FTJH to set up my BF MB and Phonitor x in my office at work seeing as I'm using my Straight Wire PYSTs with my BF2, Lokius and Jot 2 at home.


----------



## HeyWaj10

For anyone with a Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 combo - would you mind sharing your thoughts on the combo?  Do they synergize especially well, or is there an overly warm-leaning signature? Any notable characteristics that one should consider when going with this combo?


----------



## tafens

HeyWaj10 said:


> For anyone with a Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 combo - would you mind sharing your thoughts on the combo?  Do they synergize especially well, or is there an overly warm-leaning signature? Any notable characteristics that one should consider when going with this combo?


Lyr3 with new production Tung-Sol 6SN7 + Bifrost2 and loving it with my HD6XX 
I don’t think it’s overly warm to my ears, but preferences and opinions may differ of course.

I think they synergize very well, especially compared to the built-in multibit card of the Lyr3, it is much better IMO (on another level kind of better). They just give a clear, open, and very enjoyable sound together, both for listening to music as well as watching movies and tv-series.


----------



## davidfrance

HeyWaj10 said:


> For anyone with a Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 combo - would you mind sharing your thoughts on the combo?  Do they synergize especially well, or is there an overly warm-leaning signature? Any notable characteristics that one should consider when going with this combo?


As always, I am not the world’s greatest expert on this stuff. But I do have the Bifrost 2 and the Lyr 3.

But I think, perhaps, the subject of « overly warm-leaning » has other variables in the mix. My Sennheiser 600S do not sound « overly warm » on the Bifrost / Lyr combo. I would describe the 600S as sounding, maybe a bit « bright » on the system. But then there is the tube too. Somebody said somewhere that these sort of subjects have numerous players in the equation, and the actual devices that create the sound, the headphones or speakers, have importance top level in the topic.


----------



## Ufanco

Been reading up on the bitfrost 2 and concern is QC looks like early on there where some issues with this device. Was considering a used one but little concerned now if that’s a good ideal. Has there been anyone that’s had to return theres recently or have most issues been fixed? 
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated moneys tight and hate to buy one and have problems with it.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

I had to return mine under warranty last year, but I had no issues getting a replacement from Schiit. Getting a B-stock is a safe bet because you still get the warranty.


----------



## Hotdoggn

Ufanco said:


> Been reading up on the bitfrost 2 and concern is QC looks like early on there where some issues with this device. Was considering a used one but little concerned now if that’s a good ideal. Has there been anyone that’s had to return theres recently or have most issues been fixed?
> Any thoughts on this would be appreciated moneys tight and hate to buy one and have problems with it.


I have had my BF2 since March 2021 with no issues whatsoever. And that's with it having been on continuously, except for a few days when I was moving back in December. It comes with a 5 year warranty if bought new, so if it did come with any defects or issues you'd more than likely be taken care of. I've had to RMA a couple of Asgard 3s, and I had no issues working with Schiit on getting those products shipped and fixed/replaced. I know there are other horror stories out there with some of Schiit's products/their service department, but I personally can't speak to experiencing any myself. I'm currently a happy owner of their Mjolnir 2 and Mani 1 as well. So far no issues with those either.


----------



## jnak00

There was a firmware issue very early on that was fixed.  Mine has been on almost constantly since November 2019, no problems.


----------



## Ripper2860

I have 2 purchased shortly after their introduction.  On 24x7 with  both going strong.  Neither have ever required a trip back to the mothership.


----------



## tafens

I purchased min shortly after the introduction too. It has been on most of the time since then with zero issues.

There was a firmware update they sent out early on to fix some problem or another that I personally didn’t experience. I installed the update anyway though because why not. Great piece of kit (or, indeed, Schiit).


----------



## RickB

The album "How Will The Wolf Survive?" by Los Lobos sounds astonishing on the Bifrost 2. It's almost like a hallucination. This is what I imagine most well-recorded music sounds like on the Yggdrasil.


----------



## jimbop54

RickB said:


> The album "How Will The Wolf Survive?" by Los Lobos sounds astonishing on the Bifrost 2. It's almost like a hallucination. This is what I imagine most well-recorded music sounds like on the Yggdrasil.


Most albums by Los Lobos have exceptional sound quality


----------



## blackdragon87

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I had to return mine under warranty last year, but I had no issues getting a replacement from Schiit. Getting a B-stock is a safe bet because you still get the warranty.



same here


----------



## kashmiami

Recently got the BF2, had the Ares2 before. Miss the soundstage of Ares, but tonality of BF2 is so spot on & the base is absoluletly brilliant. Totally worth the price of admission. Question for folks who have used both, will moving up to Iggy retain the tonality, base & increase soundstage?
Cheers!


----------



## wonderbrah

So I have a new Bifrost 2 that has a problem. When I first turn my computer on or wake it up from sleep, there's no sound. I found that simply unplugging and plugged back in the USB cable will get the Bifrost 2 to click, and there's sound. I also found that if I start Quboz, play a song, it will get the Bifrost 2 to click and then there's sound. I can then exit out of Quboz and I will get sound in Windows again. Anyone experience this problem before? I'm using low power mode in Windows 10 desktop but I've already disabled the USB setting: "USB selective suspend" and the problem still persists.


----------



## Luckyleo

wonderbrah said:


> So I have a new Bifrost 2 that has a problem. When I first turn my computer on or wake it up from sleep, there's no sound. I found that simply unplugging and plugged back in the USB cable will get the Bifrost 2 to click, and there's sound. I also found that if I start Quboz, play a song, it will get the Bifrost 2 to click and then there's sound. I can then exit out of Quboz and I will get sound in Windows again. Anyone experience this problem before? I'm using low power mode in Windows 10 desktop but I've already disabled the USB setting: "USB selective suspend" and the problem still persists.


I believe Jason says that this is normal operating procedures.  I believe I recall him mentioning a built in delay.  Not sure why.  I never turn my Bifrost2 off, but I do have Qobuz and can report the same thing.  I kinda like it to be honest........


----------



## wonderbrah

Luckyleo said:


> I believe Jason says that this is normal operating procedures.  I believe I recall him mentioning a built in delay.  Not sure why.  I never turn my Bifrost2 off, but I do have Qobuz and can report the same thing.  I kinda like it to be honest........



Lol, why do you like it? So you have to do the same thing as me? Unplug and plug the USB cable back in to get it to activate? I never turn my Bifrost 2 off either. I even uninstalled Qobuz to see if maybe that was causing it. But still get the issue when waking the computer up, etc.


----------



## Luckyleo

wonderbrah said:


> Lol, why do you like it? So you have to do the same thing as me? Unplug and plug the USB cable back in to get it to activate? I never turn my Bifrost 2 off either. I even uninstalled Qobuz to see if maybe that was causing it. But still get the issue when waking the computer up, etc.


No.  Maybe I mis understood.  I thought you did the plug in and plug out after turning it on after having previously shut it down.  I hear the clicks when I put a new song or radio stream on via Qobuz.  That this the clicking I'm speaking of.  I never have to unplug the USB from the Bifrost........  Sorry!  I would call or email Schiit customer service on Tuesday.  I would expect that they would give you accurate info. about trouble shooting.......

Leo


----------



## carbonF1

wonderbrah said:


> So I have a new Bifrost 2 that has a problem. When I first turn my computer on or wake it up from sleep, there's no sound. I found that simply unplugging and plugged back in the USB cable will get the Bifrost 2 to click, and there's sound. I also found that if I start Quboz, play a song, it will get the Bifrost 2 to click and then there's sound. I can then exit out of Quboz and I will get sound in Windows again. Anyone experience this problem before? I'm using low power mode in Windows 10 desktop but I've already disabled the USB setting: "USB selective suspend" and the problem still persists.



I’ve had this happen, it’s a weird Windows quirk, possibly with Exclusive mode. Something, likely a program is using your Bifrost exclusively before the Windows audio service can recognize it. In my case I had a secondary monitor connected to my GPU via HDMI, when I unplugged it and went back to a single monitor I stopped having this issue. More likely than not a coincidence.

You may also want to look at the “Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device” checkbox in the audio device properties in Windows. That and make sure you’re closing out any music apps completely before letting the computer go to sleep, or don’t launch any music apps when at startup. This helped me a bit when I was using Amazon Music. In Qobuz, you can also select a different audio device and go back to your Bifrost and you should get sound again without needing to unplug/reconnect the USB cable.


----------



## davidfrance

Yes, I would think it is a « Windows configuration » subject much, much more likely than a « send it to Schiit for servicing » issue.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Check your Windoze settings to make sure nothing is funky.  My Win10 box has been behaving with my setup since I got everything set up and haven't had any glitches like this.  The clicking you hear is also when the BF senses a different bitrate/word size and changes to accommodate.  If for example, Windoze is set to 24/96k and Quobuz is set to 16/44.1 exclusive, the BF will click because of the stream rate change.


----------



## wonderbrah

carbonF1 said:


> I’ve had this happen, it’s a weird Windows quirk, possibly with Exclusive mode. Something, likely a program is using your Bifrost exclusively before the Windows audio service can recognize it. In my case I had a secondary monitor connected to my GPU via HDMI, when I unplugged it and went back to a single monitor I stopped having this issue. More likely than not a coincidence.
> 
> You may also want to look at the “Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device” checkbox in the audio device properties in Windows. That and make sure you’re closing out any music apps completely before letting the computer go to sleep, or don’t launch any music apps when at startup. This helped me a bit when I was using Amazon Music. In Qobuz, you can also select a different audio device and go back to your Bifrost and you should get sound again without needing to unplug/reconnect the USB cable.



So I emailed Schiit and the first thing they said was: did you try a different USB port or computer? 

Duh. 

I tried a different USB port and viola, issue hasn't happened once in days. 

My desktop is an old build from like 2009. X58 motherboard with the first gen Intel Core I7's. 

So I bet some of the USB ports are just wonky.


----------



## Bitsir

Just an observation...

Been using my BF2 with USB cable from my computer for a good while now, A MacBook Air M1..  I've decided to play from Spotify on my new TV  but it lacks USB output for external DAC which got me a bit grumpy. It forces me to use Optical Toslink.

So I got it setup and I was not expecting greatness... But that is what I got!

Optical was a non-insignificantly amount superior to USB, most evident in the bass and highs. Isn't USB supposed to be the best on the BF2? The cables themselves are of comparable length so it has to do with implementation? Now I plan on getting the iFi Zen Stream to use as source with its coax output into my BF2. Very exciting.


----------



## mintshows

ICYMI a Bifrost 2 upgrade/revision is out: the *Bifrost 2/64*... 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-17061189



> *Bifrost 2/64 is now a hardware-balanced DAC.* The original Bifrost 2 used two Analog Devices AD5781 D/A converters in a single-ended configuration, with the balanced outputs derived from the single-ended ones. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but Mike sayeth “hardware balanced is the True and Proper way to do a Multibit DAC,” so Bifrost 2/64 now uses four Texas Instruments DAC8812s for true balanced output, as well as single-ended.
> *It measures better.* In fact, Bifrost 2/64 is the first of our True Multibit DACs to achieve THD+N levels lower than -100dB (-102dB typical). I know this doesn’t sound like much in the world of delta-sigma steady-state measurement champions (heck, like Modi 3E), but it’s like 15dB better than the original Bifrost 2. And yeah, I know, lots of you aren’t interested in measurements but in sound, so yeah, read on…
> *You get more flexibility.* Bifrost 2/64 now includes *NOS*, or non-oversampling, mode. Now, in addition to our “megacomboburrito” filter, you can run your high-rate audio with no digital filter, if that’s the way you wanna roll. And yeah, we know, this is controversial—some people love it, others don’t. But choices are cool, right?
> *Everyone who’s heard it says it sounds better.* I know that the subjective side is gonna be discounted by a whole buncha folk, no matter how big and double-blind our comparisons are. But this is wayyyyyyy different than the Yggdrasil flavors, where we couldn’t even get a consensus between me, Dave, and Mike. This one is far clearer. If you believe in subjective stuff. If you believe we aren’t fooling ourselves.



*Product page* ($799): https://www.schiit.com/products/bifrost-1
*Upgrade *($300): https://www.schiit.com/products/bifrost-264


----------



## SolaVirtus

mintshows said:


> ICYMI a Bifrost 2 upgrade/revision is out: the *Bifrost 2/64*...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-17061189
> 
> ...


Thanks for pointing it out! It snuck under the radar behind the Lyr update post. Now to decide if it's worth $300 for the upgrade...


----------



## Neweymatt

mintshows said:


> ICYMI a Bifrost 2 upgrade/revision is out: the *Bifrost 2/64*...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-17061189
> 
> ...


Fantastic, this is one reason why I bought a Bf2.  While I've never thought it needed any kind of upgrade, this seems like a no-brainer.


----------



## Luckyleo

SolaVirtus said:


> Thanks for pointing it out! It snuck under the radar behind the Lyr update post. Now to decide if it's worth $300 for the upgrade...


ordered my upgrade right after the announcement.  In Mike/Jason we trust!


----------



## ksb643

Luckyleo said:


> ordered my upgrade right after the announcement.  In Mike/Jason we trust!


I've been thinking about getting one for 2 months. I kept telling myself the multibit card in my Jot 2 was good enough. Glad I waited!!! Time to pull the trigger...


----------



## AnalogEuphoria

interesting NOS mode that's the first time on any schiit dac.


----------



## kumar402

AnalogEuphoria said:


> interesting NOS mode that's the first time on any schiit dac.


With external upsampling we could run Yaggy LIM in NOS i guess but ya it was not possible in Bifrost2


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 23, 2022)

IIRC, with external upsampling you can with Modi Mutibit as well, since it is only 4x oversampling.  Feed it 192 sample rate in and it was essentially a NOS DAC


----------



## JerryLeeds

I was thinking about trying out the Pontus 2 … I don’t know if I should divert $300 for the Bifrost upgrade or just continue to save up for the Pontus


----------



## schneller

This latest news leaves me even more confused about the status of Gungnir MB in the lineup. It has received no official upgrades in years. Yet why keep it? Either upgrade it or kill it. Between BF2/64 and LIM, how much room is there for Gungnir? My only thought is that maybe a hypothetical Gungnir 2 could be released to specifically pair with Urd in some way...


----------



## supersonic395

The Bifrost 2/64 might retire the Gungnir product line.


----------



## ssmith3046 (Jul 23, 2022)

The new Bifrost 2 sounds like it would be a fantastic DAC but unfortunately the price increase will most likely move out of my fixed income retired budget once taxes and shipping are added on, close to $900.  I'll stick with my Modi multibit and Modius for now.  How about a new and improved modi multibit for us poor folk?


----------



## blackdragon87

Just oredered the 2/64  upgrade for my current bifrost 2, thx


----------



## XERO1

schneller said:


> This latest news leaves me even more confused about the status of Gungnir MB in the lineup. It has received no official upgrades in years. Yet why keep it? Either upgrade it or kill it. Between BF2/64 and LIM, how much room is there for Gungnir? My only thought is that maybe a hypothetical Gungnir 2 could be released to specifically pair with Urd in some way...



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6327#post-17019072

They are just keeping it available until their current stock is sold through. Then it will be gone for good.


----------



## tafens

XERO1 said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6327#post-17019072
> 
> They are just keeping it available until their current stock is sold through. Then it will be gone for good.


Not necessarily gone for good, he did say “indefinite hold”. But yeah, I realise that the likelihood of its return is kind of slim.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 23, 2022)

so if I dont care about balanced (only thing balanced I have is my Lokius, which goes out single ended) whether 4(?) 16bit TI chips is better than the 2 18bit chips - that sound right?

so sound unheard....is upgrading worth it or is it more of a lateral move just to accomplish balanced? or are we going to be wishing for 'old school' Analog Devices bifrost 2's in a few years? On face value, the AD chips cost more than the TI...


----------



## AnalogEuphoria

Lvivske said:


> 4(?) 16bit TI chips is better than the 2 18bit chips - that sound right?
> 
> so sound unheard....is upgrading worth it or is it more of a lateral move just to accomplish balanced? or are we going to be wishing for 'old school' Analog Devices bifrost 2's in a few years? On face value, the AD chips cost more than the TI...



Honestly I think its something that they had to do more than they wanted to do, Jason explains how hard it is to get parts if at all. I say hang on to that AD version BF2 if you enjoy the sound.


----------



## cgb3

Schiit is asking  $300 for the upgrade board, but only $100 extra for the new model.

It seems to me Schiit is screwing it's loyal customers. I'd spring for $150, maybe $200.

My next amp won't be Schiit.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 23, 2022)

AnalogEuphoria said:


> Honestly I think its something that they had to do more than they wanted to do, Jason explains how hard it is to get parts if at all. I say hang on to that AD version BF2 if you enjoy the sound.



yeah i got the necessity part, easier to deal with 1 chip across 2 SKUs even if there wasn't a long backorder

still curious if 4 is better than 2; enough people do seem to like that combo on the LiM over the OG...Jason in his interview said B264 has more mid-range detail


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 24, 2022)

Lvivske said:


> Jason in his interview said B264 has more mid-range detail


Hi, could you please link me to this interview?

Nevermind, I found it. At 13:00 in the video:


----------



## duncan4791 (Jul 25, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Schiit is asking  $300 for the upgrade board, but only $100 extra for the new model.
> 
> It seems to me Schiit is screwing it's loyal customers. I'd spring for $150, maybe $200.
> 
> My next amp won't be Schiit.


The cheapest price I could find for the TI8812IBPWR from Mouser on a reel of 2000 for $14.18 each. Times 4 is $56.72 plus the cost of all the other parts. Common pricing is 5 times the parts cost which easily reaches $300. As a standalone product you will pay the total cost of manufacture.

For the whole Bifrost 2 consider that the old price already includes the cost of the old analog card. Subtract the parts cost of the old card from the new one gives the delta change for the analog cards contribution to the final price. Add in increased costs for the transformer and metal and you can maybe justify the new $800 price. Question is how much margin will Schiit sacrifice to keep the sales of the Bifrost up verses Dennafrips Ares II or a Topping?


----------



## Lvivske

duncan4791 said:


> For the whole Bifrost 2 consider that the old price already includes the cost of the old analog card. Subtract the parts cost of the old card from the new one gives the delta change for the analog cards contribution to the final price.



well technically the cost went down because the bulk price on AD5781 is $30-40 per (assuming they stocked)


----------



## duncan4791

Lvivske said:


> well technically the cost went down because the bulk price on AD5781 is $30-40 per (assuming they stocked)


Isn't $60-80 the pair slightly more the $56 for 4? The price difference isn't much in our calculations, so call it break even, the extra $100 may reflect other increased costs or some really expensive opamps.

Best.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Whoever gets the first upgrade audition   just let the rest of us know the possible % SQ increase


----------



## MacMan31

I'll wait for others to do the upgrade and give their impressions before I decide to upgrade or not.


----------



## Lvivske

the NOS firmware is all the way live:

https://www.schiit.com/firmware


----------



## Neweymatt

JerryLeeds said:


> Whoever gets the first upgrade audition   just let the rest of us know the possible % SQ increase


Yeah, looking forward to impressions from the early adopters. 
Although from Jason's comments there seemed to be unanimous agreement among Schiit's own test group that the improvement is noticeable so I may wind up getting this sooner than later.  Just need the $AU to recover a bit vs $US...


----------



## cgb3

duncan4791 said:


> The cheapest price I could find for the TI8812IBPWR from Mouser on a reel of 2000 for $14.18 each. Times 4 is $56.72 plus the cost of all the other parts. Common pricing is 5 times the parts cost which easily reaches $300. As a standalone product you will pay the total cost of manufacture.
> 
> For the whole Bifrost 2 consider that the old price already includes the cost of the old analog card. Subtract the parts cost of the old card from the new one gives the delta change for the analog cards contribution to the final price. Add in increased costs for the transformer and metal and you can maybe justify the new $800 price. Question is how much margin will Schiit sacrifice to keep the sales of the Bifrost up verses Dennafrips Ares II or a Topping?


A very interesting cost analysis.

What I see is my Bifrost purchase of 2/19/21, for $771.55 (including shipping and state tax), will become a ~$1,200 DAC with the upgrade.

Worth it? I don't know. I'll listen to the golden ears comments, and decide.

For a price of $200, I'd have an order in.


----------



## theveterans

Waiting for impressions from NOS mode on the AD5781


----------



## Lvivske

I'm going to use the moment to test out NOS without any distractions, then once I get bored (and if the reviews from others are good) I'll hop on

I'll probably crack in a week


----------



## Ripper2860 (Jul 26, 2022)

I just hope all this NOS talk doesn't make me NOSeous.


----------



## duncan4791 (Jul 26, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> A very interesting cost analysis.
> 
> What I see is my Bifrost purchase of 2/19/21, for $771.55 (including shipping and state tax), will become a ~$1,200 DAC with the upgrade.
> 
> ...


I agree that the upgrade cost is a personal decision. I can't afford the thing at the present time so will also be waiting. For others it's a no brainer and they ordered right away. The price, however, is whatever Schiit deems appropriate whether you or I think it's worth the money. For the old Bifrost the AKM 2018 price was $399 and the Multibit version was $600. The multibit upgrade was $250 and the Gen 5 upgrade was $150 making a complete update $400, same as the base price. Compared to buying it complete to begin with is the Multibit/Gen 5 upgrade worth $800? To many people it was. To others, who are still using the old AKM version, not so much. The Bifrost 2 at $700 in 2020 dollars reflects the inflation that occurred between the old Bifrost's release price and the next revision. That's $800 in todays money. Explains why they just increased the price.

Can GoldenSound or another reviewer, other than the CheapAudioMan, get a review out by the end of the year?

I find it interesting that the wait time for the card started out 2-3 weeks and is now, the maybe never, 4-6 weeks. Possibly Christmas along with the new Modi Multibit.

Edit: The Firmware is up for download and adds NOS to the Bifrost. It works for me.
Best


----------



## RickB

I use Audirvaña Studio, and running the Bifrost 2 in NOS mode and using the r8Brain setting, set to upsample by power of two and linear phase, produces a pleasing sound quality. However, the Bifrost still sounds more natural/analog using its own filter.


----------



## ssmith3046

I gotta get off this thread and get back to the Modi Multibit one where I belong!


----------



## 2ndWedge

RickB said:


> I use Audirvaña Studio, and running the Bifrost 2 in NOS mode and using the r8Brain setting, set to upsample by power of two and linear phase, produces a pleasing sound quality. However, the Bifrost still sounds more natural/analog using its own filter.


So you will be setting Audirvana back to 'No Upsampling' for most of your listening to get maximum benefit of the ComboBurrito filter?  I have the original Audirvana which no longer works very well with Tidal but use it for my internal library.  Here in canada we have no access yet to Quobuz.  Wish they would hurry up.


----------



## RickB

2ndWedge said:


> So you will be setting Audirvana back to 'No Upsampling' for most of your listening to get maximum benefit of the ComboBurrito filter?  I have the original Audirvana which no longer works very well with Tidal but use it for my internal library.  Here in canada we have no access yet to Quobuz.  Wish they would hurry up.


Yes. The DAC's filter is very obviously better to me than using Audirvaña's upsampling. Might switch it on every once in awhile for something different.


----------



## cgb3

I hope it's worth it. I bit the apple tonight. The 2/64 card is coming my way.

In the end, it doesn't matter what one spends, but the enjoyment of one's toys.

Hopefully, the rejuvenated Bifrost will be a stud.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 29, 2022)

I'm so f'n NOS'd right now 🥴

(cant immediately tell the difference on the desktop setup, its pretty forgiving on dac stuff....but the pulsing LED is neat!)

update: okay i may agree with someone on HFG that NOS is brighter and OS is smoother. I was using my desktop setup which is a bit forgiving on dac differences, but I did feel less harshness with the burrito filter on so just sticking with it by default still


----------



## cgb3

JerryLeeds said:


> I was thinking about trying out the Pontus 2 … I don’t know if I should divert $300 for the Bifrost upgrade or just continue to save up for the Pontus


The Pontus 2 looks to be a fantastic DAC. My only objection is it's Chinese manufacturer. It's an ideological thing, and really has no business in a purely sound obsessed culture (or forum). For the record, I have an iBasso DAP.

If you have no objection to that, I'd probably save a little more for the Pontus 2.


----------



## cgb3

I haven't seen a review of the Schiit 2/64 card/Bifrost 2 from anyone not associated with Schiit.

Mine won't be on hand for 4-6 weeks (according to Schiit).

I'd love to see impressions from HF'ers who have changed cards in their BF2's. Surely Schiit had a few on hand (and shipping now) before announcing the card.


----------



## Luckyleo

cgb3 said:


> I haven't seen a review of the Schiit 2/64 card/Bifrost 2 from anyone not associated with Schiit.
> 
> Mine won't be on hand for 4-6 weeks (according to Schiit).
> 
> I'd love to see impressions from HF'ers who have changed cards in their BF2's. Surely Schiit had a few on hand (and shipping now) before announcing the card.


My card will be here next week


----------



## ksb643

SHIPS IN 10-12 WEEKS


----------



## Lvivske

ksb643 said:


> SHIPS IN 10-12 WEEKS



JUST IN TIME FOR HALLOWEEN


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

ksb643 said:


> SHIPS IN 10-12 WEEKS


I think they forgot to build any bifrost 2/64s before the big announcement.


----------



## Luckyleo

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> I think they forgot to build any bifrost 2/64s before the big announcement.


actually, if you watch some of the vids from last week's gathering in Austin you will see that they announced without any units available to ship.  timing is everything!

LOL

Leo


----------



## kumar402

ksb643 said:


> SHIPS IN 10-12 WEEKS


What about those who placed an early order ?  No one got till now ?


----------



## Friskyseal

I ordered on the announcement date when the estimate was 2-3 weeks and received my shipping confirmation today. I'm local so I should have it in a few days.


----------



## theveterans

Currently listening to NOS mode on 44.1 KHz without any OS involved on the AD5781ARUZ DAC. A tiny bit little more laid-back with a slightly less controlled bass (less defined than the Megacomboburrito filter), but overall just as resolving as the burrito filter. If you love listening to brickwalled modern pop, definitely use this to further lessen the listening fatigue, but definitely prefer the burrito filter for the well mastered tracks (NOS becomes too laid back for them)


----------



## Friskyseal (Jul 30, 2022)

I was surprised to see that my old card was green! It's a relatively new Bifrost 2; I bought it September of last year.

Installation was a little trickier than I expected. Still easy! It just wasn't clear which direction the SD card was to go in and how far. And it was a little difficult to aim the analog card in the interior slot when you can't see it as you slide it in.

Be back in a few hours with some initial impressions.

Edit after 2 seconds: Wow it is quite different.

Edit after ~2 hours:

I've listened out of HD650 single-ended and HD560S + Elex balanced. I didn't test NOS because I don't really care about that.

The first impression is simply "it's brighter." Last night I tried to think of what the weaknesses of the Bifrost 2 were and how it would be made better. The main issue I could come up with is that the treble is too soft. I wanted slightly brighter treble and more of it. The Bifrost 2/64 tackles this but it encompasses the entire sound. The treble is brighter but the bass is too—tighter, with more impact and definition. It's an overall increase in excitement and vividness. Because both the bass and treble have greater emphasis, there is the sense that the sound extends further in both directions of the frequency spectrum.

I hear improvements in microdetail, imaging, and soundstage width (depth is about the same as far as I can tell). It's a clear step in overall "sharpness" of clarity of sound, where the old version had softer edges and the new version draws sharper lines. There is still no trace of any harshness.

My only question is does the new card lose any of the magic midrange of the old card. It still retains some "wetness" but it might not be quite _as_ wet. There might be a small minority of listeners that prefer the old card if what is desired is the wettest, softest, most midrange-focused sound. But the new version is a far more complete package. I had planned to A-B them but I don't see any point in putting in the old card to test because it's so obvious to me that I'm keeping the new one in permanently.


----------



## supersonic395

Friskyseal said:


> I was surprised to see that my old card was green! It's a relatively new Bifrost 2; I bought it September of last year.
> 
> Installation was a little trickier than I expected. Still easy! It just wasn't clear which direction the SD card was to go in and how far. And it was a little difficult to aim the analog card in the interior slot when you can't see it as you slide it in.
> 
> ...



How is the blackground with the new card?


----------



## j0val

Friskyseal said:


> I was surprised to see that my old card was green! It's a relatively new Bifrost 2; I bought it September of last year.
> 
> Installation was a little trickier than I expected. Still easy! It just wasn't clear which direction the SD card was to go in and how far. And it was a little difficult to aim the analog card in the interior slot when you can't see it as you slide it in.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the impressions. Would you say it’s still a warm-sounding DAC? I worry for my Grado RS1x, but I’m sure they’ll still sou good. I find out tomorrow when my card arrives.


----------



## schneller

What's keeping me from the LIM is a lack of sparkle in the treble (compared to OG). I wonder if the BF2/64 addresses this to some extent?


----------



## elementze

2/64 card arrived today!  OG card on the left, 2/64 on the right.


----------



## elementze

Installation was easier than upgrading the DAC in an A3 or Jot2.  I think opening the lid to the DAC makes the process even easier, since you can't really miss on how to plug the card in.


----------



## elementze

Need to keep listening, but first thing to jump out to me is better controlled treble.  Some tracks that would get a little too bright or sharp now seem more controlled (less harsh).  Classic bf2 punch/slam definitely still there.  I'm also noticing better detail on trailing edge decay.  But much more listening to do


----------



## elementze

Detail retrieval is definitely a step up. I don't have much experience with higher end DACs, so not sure what to compare it to. But I'm getting more subtle background detail and textures than I did before. Instrument layering is also a step up, everything is more separated.


----------



## supersonic395

How is the blackground? I had a BF2 for a while and it was more a greyground


----------



## elementze

supersonic395 said:


> How is the blackground? I had a BF2 for a while and it was more a greyground


Improved.  Not as pitch black as others. But improved for sure.


----------



## Friskyseal

j0val said:


> Thanks for the impressions. Would you say it’s still a warm-sounding DAC? I worry for my Grado RS1x, but I’m sure they’ll still sou good. I find out tomorrow when my card arrives.



Honestly, I'm not sure. I think the more uncharitable way to frame my impressions is that it does in fact sound more digital. But I still prefer it. Maybe it just has to break in more. I look forward to reading what you think.


----------



## Friskyseal

supersonic395 said:


> How is the blackground? I had a BF2 for a while and it was more a greyground



For me it was always black so I don't hear any difference. Upgrading the power cables on my amp + dac made the biggest difference for me in improving blackground.


----------



## theveterans

Friskyseal said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure. I think the more uncharitable way to frame my impressions is that it does in fact sound more digital. But I still prefer it. Maybe it just has to break in more. I look forward to reading what you think.



NOS mode should alleviate that sense of "digital-ness" for most tracks while well mastered ones benefit greatly from increased sense of refinement and presence of the 8x burrito filter. Break them in for at least a week though before experimenting with filters


----------



## theeclone

Hey, newb here. Been lurking and have owned many a Schiit DAC. More of a speaker listener these days, FWIW, but I do still love my Grados.

My Bifrost 2 still has the AD chips but I flashed the new firmware. With all the raving out there about the holo audio stuff I was excited to hear the BF2 in NOS mode. 1st impressions are that I never, ever, like NOS mode better than megacomboburritowhatever mode. The thing that perplexes me is that I used to love the way the Modi Multibit and O.G. Bifrost multibit sounded when I played 192KHz vinyl rips. At that sample rate, they're effectively NOS dacs. Maybe all this time with the Bifrost 2 has just spoiled me since then, bc I'm only going off memory from a few years back, but those exact same 192K rips are not so great in NOS with those rips on BF2. Maybe it's also related to the fact that I was using spdif with an eitr back then whereas I use Unison USB now (I love Unison. It's been a game changer).

Really curious if there's a significantly different filter in place in NOS mode on BF2 than the ones found in the modi multibit and O.G. bifrost multibit. In NOS mode on BF2, the bass feels less solid, less authoritative. To me there is a slight harshness as well in the upper mids that gives me a headache after long sessions, though there is also an engaging quality to it, which sometimes lends itself well to certain electronic music. Overall it's just a less euphonic experience.


----------



## Friskyseal

I tested the NOS mode on the new card briefly and my impression is similar—it sounds worse. A lot worse. The stage collapses and the bass deflates. It's like all the life is sucked out of the sound. Either the unit is heavily designed around the filter or the filter itself is just incredible. Whatever, I switched back to standard and will never bother with NOS again.


----------



## kumar402

theeclone said:


> Hey, newb here. Been lurking and have owned many a Schiit DAC. More of a speaker listener these days, FWIW, but I do still love my Grados.
> 
> My Bifrost 2 still has the AD chips but I flashed the new firmware. With all the raving out there about the holo audio stuff I was excited to hear the BF2 in NOS mode. 1st impressions are that I never, ever, like NOS mode better than megacomboburritowhatever mode. The thing that perplexes me is that I used to love the way the Modi Multibit and O.G. Bifrost multibit sounded when I played 192KHz vinyl rips. At that sample rate, they're effectively NOS dacs. Maybe all this time with the Bifrost 2 has just spoiled me since then, bc I'm only going off memory from a few years back, but those exact same 192K rips are not so great in NOS with those rips on BF2. Maybe it's also related to the fact that I was using spdif with an eitr back then whereas I use Unison USB now (I love Unison. It's been a game changer).
> 
> Really curious if there's a significantly different filter in place in NOS mode on BF2 than the ones found in the modi multibit and O.G. bifrost multibit. In NOS mode on BF2, the bass feels less solid, less authoritative. To me there is a slight harshness as well in the upper mids that gives me a headache after long sessions, though there is also an engaging quality to it, which sometimes lends itself well to certain electronic music. Overall it's just a less euphonic experience.


If you don’t like NOS in BF2 that doesn’t mean you won’t like it in well implemented R2R DACs like Holo May or Pavane etc. Just that BF2 is better in OS mode


----------



## theeclone

kumar402 said:


> If you don’t like NOS in BF2 that doesn’t mean you won’t like it in well implemented R2R DACs like Holo May or Pavane etc. Just that BF2 is better in OS mode


I suspect that's true, but to me Moffat knows what he's doing, and I agree with pretty much every subjective impression he's shared about his own products (for example he didn't like the delta sigma modi and neither did I). And like I said, I do remember liking those other Schiit products at 192K, when they were effectively in NOS mode.

But then again I also love DSD, and I get the sense he and some of the schiit fans disagree on that one. I actually thought the original loki sounded great. Pretty impressive for the price. Speaking of which, one thing I've found when converting dsd to pcm is that the choice of filter seems to matter in the final result (like how many taps does it have and what are they).


----------



## rodel808

Is there a way to verify what firmware is currently installed or verify if an update firmware installed successfully? I'm afraid my bf2\64 board that I just received is doa. The sketchy part was that it came in an est bag and it was not sealed. Installed the board into the unit but no sound comes out.


----------



## theveterans

rodel808 said:


> Is there a way to verify what firmware is currently installed or verify if an update firmware installed successfully? I'm afraid my bf2\64 board that I just received is doa. The sketchy part was that it came in an est bag and it was not sealed. Installed the board into the unit but no sound comes out.



Insert the old board back and reflash firmware. You can check if BF2 goes into NOS mode and play some tunes. If it does, you can then put the new board and check


----------



## rodel808

theveterans said:


> Insert the old board back and reflash firmware. You can check if BF2 goes into NOS mode and play some tunes. If it does, you can then put the new board and check



Put back old board in. It works...sound comes out.  Holding the input down does not put it into NOS mode. It just cycles through the three inputs. I'm guessing the firmware update failed. I used a 64GB sdcard (smallest size I currently have) and ensured it's formated as fat32 and 32KB cluster. Booting the unit up with the sdcard inserted goes through the whole led light cycles (2 times to be exact).


----------



## theveterans

rodel808 said:


> Put back old board in. It works...sound comes out.  Holding the input down does not put it into NOS mode. It just cycles through the three inputs. I'm guessing the firmware update failed. I used a 64GB sdcard (smallest size I currently have) and ensured it's formated as fat32 and 32KB cluster. Booting the unit up with the sdcard inserted goes through the whole led light cycles (2 times to be exact).



You must be able to access the NOS mode on the old board for the new card to work. Try again with a 32 GB SD card which I used and worked fine for my unit


----------



## TheTechQ

theveterans said:


> You must be able to access the NOS mode on the old board for the new card to work. Try again with a 32 GB SD card which I used and worked fine for my unit


That's exactly what happened on mine. It didn't try to upgrade the firmware. In my case it was due to cluster size, so I used a 256 GB card and it worked. Keep in mind that the files need to be in the root directory of the card, and the card should be inserted into the Bifrost 2 label side up. Once I did that, the firmware update worked.


----------



## elementze

Does anyone have experience with any of the Schiit Yggy DACs that can compare it to the 2/64 upgrade on the BF2?  It would be very interesting to understand how close the BF2/64 gets to the Less is More Yggy.  I'm certain it's got a significant gap, but is it moving in that direction?  or going off sonically on it's own way?


----------



## j0val

Upgrade card came today.


----------



## elementze

Looking forward to hearing your opinion of it


----------



## cgb3

rodel808 said:


> Put back old board in. It works...sound comes out.  Holding the input down does not put it into NOS mode. It just cycles through the three inputs. I'm guessing the firmware update failed. I used a 64GB sdcard (smallest size I currently have) and ensured it's formated as fat32 and 32KB cluster. Booting the unit up with the sdcard inserted goes through the whole led light cycles (2 times to be exact).


Why didn't use the SD card Schiit sent with the card?



TheTechQ said:


> That's exactly what happened on mine. It didn't try to upgrade the firmware. In my case it was due to cluster size, so I used a 256 GB card and it worked. Keep in mind that the files need to be in the root directory of the card, and the card should be inserted into the Bifrost 2 label side up. Once I did that, the firmware update worked.


The unzipped files total 259KB. There's no reason to use a 256GB card. A 512K card (if one could find one), would work well.


----------



## j0val

elementze said:


> Looking forward to hearing your opinion of it



I think my impressions so far mirror yours. The most noticeable benefit to me is the increase in bass texture. I feel like there’s a little more impact in sub-bass, which gives it a slightly more euphonic/holographic sound than before the upgrade. My chain is BF2–> Lokius-> Lyr 3 -> Grado RS1x.


----------



## elementze

It's great that a $300 upgrade can make this DAC feel new again.


----------



## TheTechQ

It is not a game changer, but the NOS with the new firmware gives you another knob to play with when the sound is good but not great.


----------



## Neweymatt

elementze said:


> It's great that a $300 upgrade can make this DAC feel new again.


Yah, I’m waiting for a few more impressions, but so far it seems like a no-brainer, and a very cost-effective way to upgrade all of your IEMs and Headphones at one go.


----------



## mekap

I watched the Bifrost2 for a long time, looked at the reviews and read the reviews of the owners and did not dare to buy it, but recently I saw that Schiit released the Bifrost2/64 upgrade. I could not resist and pressed the button - Buy. I hope Bifrost 2/64 will not disappoint me.
I received a letter from Schiit that my Bifrost will be ready in 4-6 weeks. Why so long?


----------



## elementze

mekap said:


> I watched the Bifrost2 for a long time, looked at the reviews and read the reviews of the owners and did not dare to buy it, but recently I saw that Schiit released the Bifrost2/64 upgrade. I could not resist and pressed the button - Buy. I hope Bifrost 2/64 will not disappoint me.
> I received a letter from Schiit that my Bifrost will be ready in 4-6 weeks. Why so long?


Popular DAC with a cost effective upgrade.  The upgrade cards are on the same lead time.


----------



## j0val

mekap said:


> I watched the Bifrost2 for a long time, looked at the reviews and read the reviews of the owners and did not dare to buy it, but recently I saw that Schiit released the Bifrost2/64 upgrade. I could not resist and pressed the button - Buy. I hope Bifrost 2/64 will not disappoint me.
> I received a letter from Schiit that my Bifrost will be ready in 4-6 weeks. Why so long?



Congrats. I’ve had the BF2 for almost 2 years now. It’s an awesome DAC. As for the delays, it’s likely due to the BF2’s popularity (especially with the upgrade) as well as hardware shortages. It’ll be a thought wait, but well worth it.


----------



## Lvivske

theeclone said:


> I actually thought the original loki sounded great. Pretty impressive for the price



Is there something wrong with it? Is the second version supposed to be actually better?


----------



## mekap

I wanted to say that I did not buy an upgrade card, but I bought a DAC with a new card.
This is my first multibit DAC. I chose between Bifrost2/64 and Musician Audio Pegasus R2R DAC, I chose Bifrost, I hope I didn't make a mistake and made the right choice.


----------



## theeclone (Aug 2, 2022)

Lvivske said:


> Is there something wrong with it? Is the second version supposed to be actually better?


I just mean the original loki was a dsd dac and it's interesting to hear Schiit's take on dsd in general, and also that of the bigwigs in a certain other schiit friendly forum. They tend to think it's a waste of time. I think it can actually sound amazing. Great bass and soundstage depth.

Part of my rambling was just to point out that maybe I don't ways agree with schiit's taste, though in general I love their multibit dacs and headamps. And also to point out how something as simple as the filter you use can greatly affect the end result. Like when I convert from dsd to pcm I notice the differences in quality between different FIR filters.

I was almost tempted to think they just didn't care enough about NOS mode to make it sound great, on some kind of philosophical grounds, but I doubt that. But heck, if they could make a super gentle antialiasing filter in NOS mode on BF2 that attenuated a lot of ultrasonic frequencies, even well below the nyquist frequency for high sample rates, I'd be all for it if it sounded better than what I'm hearing now.


----------



## theeclone

mekap said:


> I wanted to say that I did not buy an upgrade card, but I bought a DAC with a new card.
> This is my first multibit DAC. I chose between Bifrost2/64 and Musician Audio Pegasus R2R DAC, I chose Bifrost, I hope I didn't make a mistake and made the right choice.


I used to have a gungnir multibit. I was excited about unison usb so when the BF2 came out I bought it on a lark, and it didn't hurt that Schiit gave a discount to previous bifrost owners, which I was at the time.

As soon as I got the BF2 I sold the gungnir. That's how good it is. Unison usb makes a huge difference in my setup. I believe Mike Moffat likes it better than spdif and aes.

I don't think you'll be disappointed. I doubt that other dac has as good a usb implementation. And if you like a warm, euphonic sound with good slam you'll like BF2.


----------



## Lvivske

theeclone said:


> I just mean the original loki was a dsd dac


ohhhh thought you were talking about the EQ


----------



## theveterans

theeclone said:


> I was almost tempted to think they just didn't care enough about NOS mode to make it sound great, on some kind of philosophical grounds, but I doubt that. But heck, if they could make a super gentle antialiasing filter in NOS mode on BF2 that cut out a lot of ultrasonic frequencies, even well below the nyquist frequency for high sample rates, I'd be all for it if it sounded better than what I'm hearing now.



The analog stage of BF2 wasn’t designed to filter out ultrasonics incredibly well unlike those DACs with NOS as their primary mode of signal processing e.g. Metrum DACs, Aqua Formula xHD, Holo Audio, Abbas DACs, Aries Cerat Kassandra, etc.

Schiit designed their DACs to run their custom closed form 8x digital filter and let their proprietary noise shaper do its job instead of the analog stage where designers carefully select their components to maximize NOS sound


----------



## mekap

I have read that many Bifrost owners recommend not turning off the Bifrost during downtime. Is Bifrost designed for such a long work without a break?


----------



## theeclone

Lvivske said:


> ohhhh thought you were talking about the EQ


He's a trickster, that loki!


----------



## Btarr

mekap said:


> I have read that many Bifrost owners recommend not turning off the Bifrost during downtime. Is Bifrost designed for such a long work without a break?


My understanding is that the R2R or Multibit DACs sound better when "Warmed up".  I can't imagine it working very hard when just "ON" just idling.  Mine stays on all the time.


----------



## mekap

Btarr said:


> My understanding is that the R2R or Multibit DACs sound better when "Warmed up".  I can't imagine it working very hard when just "ON" just idling.  Mine stays on all the time.


Will this damage the power transformer inside the Bifrost?


----------



## Farrellc

Placed my order for the upgrade card on 7/25 and was told it would take 4-6 weeks to ship. Looks like they've been ramping up production because I got an email today telling me it shipped . Definitely looking forward to what I'll hear once installed!


----------



## elementze

mekap said:


> Will this damage the power transformer inside the Bifrost?


According to Schiit website, it's fine to leave on 24/7. That's what I do. Just leave a little space around it for heat dissipation.


----------



## elementze

Farrellc said:


> Placed my order for the upgrade card on 7/25 and was told it would take 4-6 weeks to ship. Looks like they've been ramping up production because I got an email today telling me it shipped . Definitely looking forward to what I'll hear once installed!


Yeah, Schiit really got it in a pile for these DAC cards. Shipping is way better than their average on these.


----------



## tafens

mekap said:


> I have read that many Bifrost owners recommend not turning off the Bifrost during downtime. Is Bifrost designed for such a long work without a break?


Yes. All Schiit gear is designed to be able to be on constantly as well as being turned on and off with use. That question is in most of the FAQs on the product pages. Those are a very fun and enjoyable read too, I recommend reading them, also on products you don’t (yet) own 

Even their tube amps can be left on, also the crazy ten tube Folkvangr, but as tubes have a finite lifespan of about 5000 hours you would burn through a set of tubes in less than a year if you do. But you can. You only need to buy new tubes more often. And pay more on the electricity bill, of course 

The recommendation to leave the Bifrost on is because we who recommend it feel that it sounds even better warm than cold. So we just leave it on instead of waiting an hour or so after turn-on for optimal sound. YMMV on that of course.



mekap said:


> Will this damage the power transformer inside the Bifrost?


Nope.


----------



## Btarr (Aug 2, 2022)

mekap said:


> Will this damage the power transformer inside the Bifrost?


The Guys at Schiit say no.   At least, from what I've read/seen from Schiit answering this kind of question.  The real danger is in the turning the Bifrost 2/64 or any electronics ON and OFF.  The way I remember it explained was: the "rush" of power is when the stress occurs on electronics.


----------



## Ripper2860

I sure hope not.  Mine has been on since I took delivery shortly after it was announced.


----------



## rodel808

cgb3 said:


> Why didn't use the SD card Schiit sent with the card?



Haha, didn't realize one was included in the box. Mines was hiding behind the 2nd layer of foam. I was too excited to thoroughly check all the contents. Anyways, I was able to flash the firmware with a 16GB card. 

My first impressions are positive with NOS turned off. Mostly listened to jazz on a pair of small near fields + sub. Card64 seems to have bit more clarity and snap in the treble region. Not sure how to describe it other than saying it sounds like it extends out further. I'm just glad that it still keeps the warmish full bodied sound in the bass and mids section. I tried NOS for about 30 min but really couldn't stand listening to it. The sound was just too "boring".

Anyone know what the power draw is when the BF2 is idle? Trying to decide if it's worth it to leave it powered on.


----------



## JS27

So.....I'm very sad to be this guy......but does the card Schiit sends have the firmware loaded, or is it just a blank card you need to load?  I _assumed_ the firmware was pre-loaded, but cannot get my BF2 to interact with that card at all.  Swapped back the old AD internal and worked fine....tried flashing with the old card in and no-go either.  That little card only fits one way so don't believe I'm boogering that part......but for sure not getting hot, hot firmware action going with either card.

 Going to have to fish out my old card-reader from the parts graveyard drawer.


----------



## elementze

JS27 said:


> So.....I'm very sad to be this guy......but does the card Schiit sends have the firmware loaded, or is it just a blank card you need to load?  I _assumed_ the firmware was pre-loaded, but cannot get my BF2 to interact with that card at all.  Swapped back the old AD internal and worked fine....tried flashing with the old card in and no-go either.  That little card only fits one way so don't believe I'm boogering that part......but for sure not getting hot, hot firmware action going with either card.
> 
> Going to have to fish out my old card-reader from the parts graveyard drawer.


My card came pre-loaded.  it took me a minute to figure out orientation into the slot.  But the following worked for me:

1. power down DAC
2. unplug DAC
3. remove OG card (I opened the lid to my BF2, it made the process a little easier, but isn't necessary)
4. install 2/64 card (put the lid back on the BF2)
5. insert SD card included with 2/64 card
6. plug in power
7. turn on DAC
8. watch the lights blink on the front panel for ~30 seconds
9. turn off DAC
10. remove SD card
11. turn on DAC
12. profit!


----------



## theeclone

JS27 said:


> So.....I'm very sad to be this guy......but does the card Schiit sends have the firmware loaded, or is it just a blank card you need to load?  I _assumed_ the firmware was pre-loaded, but cannot get my BF2 to interact with that card at all.  Swapped back the old AD internal and worked fine....tried flashing with the old card in and no-go either.  That little card only fits one way so don't believe I'm boogering that part......but for sure not getting hot, hot firmware action going with either card.
> 
> Going to have to fish out my old card-reader from the parts graveyard drawer.


I believe you still have to flash the firmware 

Contrary to what other ppl experienced, I actually had better luck with a large sd card (200GB) than a small one (2GB). I think it's mostly about card quality, so don't be afraid to try a few cards.

The 32KB cluster size is important, as is using FAT format. The card should go label up in the bifrost slot, and when it powers on the lights should eventually start blinking in a very different pattern than normally. If that doesn't happen, it didn't flash.

There's a youtube video of how the lights are supposed to blink linked somewhere on this thread.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 2, 2022)

The Schiit-proivided SD should come with the FW on it.  The slot is a bit finnicky, so make sure it is in the reader slot (not over it) and press somewhat firmly to ensure it is well seated w/ label up.  Also -- I would flash with the ORIGINAL card in it and THEN switch out cards for the new upgraded one.  

BTW -- I posted that video of the flash light sequence, so you can look at my posts or search on Youtube, which is where I linked it from.

Here it is...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6493#post-17075405


----------



## JS27

Thanks gents.  I'm able to pop the top and swap the hardware cards no issue.  I actually re-poped the top off so I could visually confirm the SD card was seated fully in the little reader slot.  No dice when turning on (in terms of getting the BF2 to pick up the firmware).  Ordered a cheap card reader/writer off Amazon to double check there's firmware on it/flash my own if needed.  Hope it's not the reader on the BF2.  

 On the + side, pretty darn easy to get in/out of the DAC!


----------



## Luckyleo

mekap said:


> I watched the Bifrost2 for a long time, looked at the reviews and read the reviews of the owners and did not dare to buy it, but recently I saw that Schiit released the Bifrost2/64 upgrade. I could not resist and pressed the button - Buy. I hope Bifrost 2/64 will not disappoint me.
> I received a letter from Schiit that my Bifrost will be ready in 4-6 weeks. Why so long?


Well, Jason said they only announced it for the Texas round-up.  They weren't prepared to actually ship them.  The note on the website is accurate.


----------



## Btarr

mekap said:


> Will this damage the power transformer inside the Bifrost?


No just let her RUN😜👍


----------



## Luckyleo

Btarr said:


> No just let her RUN😜👍


I've had mine going virtually 24/7 since I bought it when it was just released.  No worries..... FYI Jason has mentioned in one of his vids that Mike M. fought with him.... Mike didn't want an on-off switch at all!

Leo


----------



## Lvivske

mine is one 24/7

as they say, there's a reason Schiit puts their power switches on the back


----------



## raindownthunda

2/64 installed after a bit of a headache troubleshooting. Originally I installed the new 2/64 card and flashed firmware after using Schiit provided microSD. No sound. Swapped back old card - works fine. NOS mode is working now, so new firmware installed correctly?? Weird. Put back in original card and tried flashing firmware again. Still working. Put in new card and it's finally working... so at least on my unit, the new card wouldn't work unless the original card was installed during the firmware update.

After all that, sounding pretty great with my tube amp. Definitely the same flavor, but deeper reaching bass is immediately noticeable. Maybe a bit more texture and snappier transients? Electronic music sounding pretty fantastic. Going to be a late night trying to form impressions...


----------



## mekap

Ripper2860 said:


> The Schiit-proivided SD should come with the FW on it.  The slot is a bit finnicky, so make sure it is in the reader slot (not over it) and press somewhat firmly to ensure it is well seated w/ label up.  Also -- I would flash with the ORIGINAL card in it and THEN switch out cards for the new upgraded one.
> 
> BTW -- I posted that video of the flash light sequence, so you can look at my posts or search on Youtube, which is where I linked it from.
> 
> ...


Will these blinking LEDs stop and this will mean that the update is installed?


----------



## mekap (Aug 3, 2022)

Luckyleo said:


> Well, Jason said they only announced it for the Texas round-up. They weren't prepared to actually ship them. The note on the website is accurate.


in fact, only 3-4 days have passed since my order and Shiit has already sent me Bifrost 2/64, now it is on its way)


----------



## Ripper2860

mekap said:


> Will these blinking LEDs stop and this will mean that the update is installed?


Yes.  They will stop blinking and in my case (and in the case of the video), only the input light will remain lit.  In my case it was USB.  Do note that in the last phase all lights will go off for a second or 2 and then the lights will come back, scan and settle on the input.  If one is not sure, give the entire process 5 minutes to complete.  That's more than enough time to ensure you do not interrupt the flash process.


----------



## Lvivske

I went to the bathroom while my firmware installed to avoid any mishaps


----------



## Ripper2860

So you install firmware in order to avoid bathroom mishaps?


----------



## RickB

Ripper2860 said:


> I sure hope not.  Mine has been on since I took delivery shortly after it was announced.


And you live in Texas? I find that hard to believe!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 3, 2022)

My home is on the same grid as a nearby hospital so I never had an issue related to rolling power outages.


----------



## Luckyleo

Received my new 2/64 board.  Took advice of others and removed the lid and installing the board was a snap.  I see why it is harder if you don't remove the lid.  Also, put the SIM card in with the lid off.  Also a snap.  Plugged the unit in watched the lights change and then it appeared to stop processing and the single white light came on.  Made all the connections to my amps, and ..... IT WORKED.  I am not handy at all.  Generally speaking I screw most things up that I work on.  Not this time!  I'm shocked!  One note to @Jason Stoddard, it would help someone like me to have a single piece of paper explaining how to make the change.  I'll give my thoughts/impressions after I've had a chance to listen more.  So far, I can tell that it's a noticeable difference.

Leo


----------



## Btarr

OK.  Regarding the sound of the 2/64 vs Bifrost 2:  
I don't have a very high end set up...: Swann (chi-fi) M300 active speakers fed by the Bifrost 2/64 single end.  
There is just more body, more density to the sound.  Highs are crisp and clear not gritty. Bifrost 2 was a bit dull on the high end.  
Lows are controlled and everything has a pleasant texture. 
These are the same types of notes I experienced when I had my Freya+ w/ tubes engaged - sadly had to sell that wonderful box to make rent, thanks to the COVID economy.  But the Bifrost 2/64 has given me SOME of that WOMP, weight, texture.... back. Saving up for a Freya+ replacement - What a combo that would be to my otherwise untrained ears.


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> So you install firmware in order to avoid bathroom mishaps?



It worked, didn't it?


----------



## Ripper2860

Well, you're still posting so I can only guess everything went OK.


----------



## Luckyleo

Btarr said:


> OK.  Regarding the sound of the 2/64 vs Bifrost 2:
> I don't have a very high end set up...: Swann (chi-fi) M300 active speakers fed by the Bifrost 2/64 single end.
> There is just more body, more density to the sound.  Highs are crisp and clear not gritty. Bifrost 2 was a bit dull on the high end.
> Lows are controlled and everything has a pleasant texture.
> These are the same types of notes I experienced when I had my Freya+ w/ tubes engaged - sadly had to sell that wonderful box to make rent, thanks to the COVID economy.  But the Bifrost 2/64 has given me SOME of that WOMP, weight, texture.... back. Saving up for a Freya+ replacement - What a combo that would be to my otherwise untrained ears.


Having just received my Board, I've been listening for a couple hours.  I was wondering how to describe the differences between the BF2 and the BF2/64.  It is definitely more than a mini/incremental difference.  I read your thoughts above, and couldn't have described the differences better than you.  Good job!

Leo


----------



## Lvivske

ah crap guys, does this mean I have to buy one now? It's actually a no brainer to upgrade?


----------



## JerryLeeds

Wow … I ordered my upgrade board early this morning and now 12 hours later it has already shipped … Holy Schiit


----------



## TheTechQ

cgb3 said:


> Why didn't use the SD card Schiit sent with the card?
> 
> 
> The unzipped files total 259KB. There's no reason to use a 256GB card. A 512K card (if one could find one), would work well.


It requires 32 K cluster size. I tried a 2 GB card and it didn't work due to the wrong cluster size first. As for 256, I wanted a card I could use for other stuff after the upgrade.


----------



## Btarr

Luckyleo said:


> Having just received my Board, I've been listening for a couple hours.  I was wondering how to describe the differences between the BF2 and the BF2/64.  It is definitely more than a mini/incremental difference.  I read your thoughts above, and couldn't have described the differences better than you.  Good job!
> 
> Leo


Thanks!   Nice Avatar BTW.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Btw … I never got a SD card with my Bifrost …


----------



## Aquileolus

JerryLeeds said:


> Wow … I ordered my upgrade board early this morning and now 12 hours later it has already shipped … Holy Schiit


What!? I saw it has 10-12 weeks lead time, that's what stop me from ordering it...


----------



## JerryLeeds

Aquileolus said:


> What!? I saw it has 10-12 weeks lead time, that's what stop me from ordering it...


Okay … I was lying ..😁
It was really 12 hours and 11 minutes… using the time stamp from the order confirmation email to the time stamp on the shipping email 

FedEx expected delivery date is Tuesday 

Order while supplies last


----------



## ckhirnigs113

The update reinstates the warranty for 2 years if you are out of warranty. Out of curiosity, I looked up when the Bifrost 2 was released and saw the original announcement from Schiit was on August 28th, 2019.

That means everyone that bought their BF2 from Schiit has more than 2 years left on their warranty. Even if you bought your BF2 on 8/28/19, you’re still covered until 8/28/24!

At this point, the 2-year warranty on the upgrade really only helps folks that bought their BF2 used. If I can be patient, I think I might wait until my original 5-year warranty is about to expire before I do the upgrade. The OG BF2 sounds great already, so I’m going to try to exercise some self control!


----------



## Neweymatt

ckhirnigs113 said:


> At this point, the 2-year warranty on the upgrade really only helps folks that bought their BF2 used. If I can be patient, I think I might wait until my original 5-year warranty is about to expire before I do the upgrade. The OG BF2 sounds great already, so I’m going to try to exercise some self control!


Ha Ha, I thought about that at first, but with all these positive impressions coming in I don't think I'm going to last very long.


----------



## jonathan c

ckhirnigs113 said:


> The update reinstates the warranty for 2 years if you are out of warranty. Out of curiosity, I looked up when the Bifrost 2 was released and saw the original announcement from Schiit was on August 28th, 2019.
> 
> That means everyone that bought their BF2 from Schiit has more than 2 years left on their warranty. Even if you bought your BF2 on 8/28/19, you’re still covered until 8/28/24!
> 
> At this point, the 2-year warranty on the upgrade really only helps folks that bought their BF2 used. If I can be patient, I think I might wait until my original 5-year warranty is about to expire before I do the upgrade. The OG BF2 sounds great already, so I’m going to try to exercise some self control!


•  Interesting, but consider the ‘opportunity cost’ incurred between now and your warranty expiration.
•  An opportunity cost is the cost of an alternative. That alternative is acquiring the update. The ‘cost’ or ‘utility function’ of this alternative is the musical enjoyment net of the monetary outlay between now and your warranty expiration.
•  This state is to be compared, ideally in ‘present value terms’, with potentially lower musical enjoyment and no monetary outlay until your warranty expiration.
•  Have at it !! 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## theveterans

ckhirnigs113 said:


> The update reinstates the warranty for 2 years if you are out of warranty. Out of curiosity, I looked up when the Bifrost 2 was released and saw the original announcement from Schiit was on August 28th, 2019.
> 
> That means everyone that bought their BF2 from Schiit has more than 2 years left on their warranty. Even if you bought your BF2 on 8/28/19, you’re still covered until 8/28/24!
> 
> At this point, the 2-year warranty on the upgrade really only helps folks that bought their BF2 used. If I can be patient, I think I might wait until my original 5-year warranty is about to expire before I do the upgrade. The OG BF2 sounds great already, so I’m going to try to exercise some self control!



Same here. I like the way the NOS mode sounds with the old card that I use that more than the OS due to better synergy in tonality and staging with my system, but NOS impressions with the new card might be too laid back/boring compared to the old card from what I gather so far


----------



## wonderbrah

ckhirnigs113 said:


> The update reinstates the warranty for 2 years if you are out of warranty. Out of curiosity, I looked up when the Bifrost 2 was released and saw the original announcement from Schiit was on August 28th, 2019.
> 
> That means everyone that bought their BF2 from Schiit has more than 2 years left on their warranty. Even if you bought your BF2 on 8/28/19, you’re still covered until 8/28/24!
> 
> At this point, the 2-year warranty on the upgrade really only helps folks that bought their BF2 used. If I can be patient, I think I might wait until my original 5-year warranty is about to expire before I do the upgrade. The OG BF2 sounds great already, so I’m going to try to exercise some self control!



By that time, the Bifrost 3 may be right around the corner!


----------



## ckhirnigs113

wonderbrah said:


> By that time, the Bifrost 3 may be right around the corner!


Haha, that would be my luck!


----------



## wonderbrah

Sooo those who've upgraded to the new 2/64 chip...what are you doing with your old chips? Keeping em in a drawer in case you want to swap out and do a comparison? Throwing em away? Don't think you could sell them because who would want to buy them? If you 100% think the new 2/64 chip sounds better and don't want to do comparisons, are you throwing it away? Seems like kind of a waste but what's the point in holding onto it?


----------



## Luckyleo

wonderbrah said:


> Sooo those who've upgraded to the new 2/64 chip...what are you doing with your old chips? Keeping em in a drawer in case you want to swap out and do a comparison? Throwing em away? Don't think you could sell them because who would want to buy them? If you 100% think the new 2/64 chip sounds better and don't want to do comparisons, are you throwing it away? Seems like kind of a waste but what's the point in holding onto it?


I'm holding on to it for now.  I don't plan on switching back or a/b ing anytime soon. Maybe in a year or so, some owners of the Bifrost 2/64 may want to purchase a used Bifrost 2 card just to hear the difference in sound between the two.  Or, maybe one day in the future I will want to switch back just for fun.

Leo


----------



## ckhirnigs113

wonderbrah said:


> Sooo those who've upgraded to the new 2/64 chip...what are you doing with your old chips? Keeping em in a drawer in case you want to swap out and do a comparison? Throwing em away? Don't think you could sell them because who would want to buy them? If you 100% think the new 2/64 chip sounds better and don't want to do comparisons, are you throwing it away? Seems like kind of a waste but what's the point in holding onto it?


Someone that buys a BF2/64 new might be curious to compare it to the OG BF2. That person might look for a used OG board to swap in, so I would suggest holding onto your old board.

Edit: Haha, @Luckyleo beat me to it!


----------



## elementze

wonderbrah said:


> Sooo those who've upgraded to the new 2/64 chip...what are you doing with your old chips? Keeping em in a drawer in case you want to swap out and do a comparison? Throwing em away? Don't think you could sell them because who would want to buy them? If you 100% think the new 2/64 chip sounds better and don't want to do comparisons, are you throwing it away? Seems like kind of a waste but what's the point in holding onto it?



hold for now.  maybe swap back later for an A/B comparison.  Maybe sell it.  no idea to be honest.  Maybe when BF3 comes out there will be a market for a "complete set" of Bifrost 2 + 2/64 :-D


----------



## elementze

This new NOS mode has me curious about running HQPlayer with the BF2/64.

So after ~1hr of moving things around and playing with settings, I’ve got HQPlayer up and running with my BF2/64. The setup I'm running is:
  M1 Mac Mini running HQPlayer (controlled via Roon)
  RPi4 w/ NAA image as network audio end point
  USB from RPi4 to BF2/64 (with Singxer UIP-1 in between)
  BF2/64 running NOS mode

It works and sounds pretty good. Definitely better than running stock NOS mode w/o HQPlayer upsampling. Like anything with HQPlayer, it’s all about settings. It’ll take some time to find “optimal” settings. But for now I’m running:
  sinc-L
  NS9
  PCM
  24-bit
  4x rate (192kHz)

This config is pulling out more low-level detail than the stock setup. But need to do a lot more listening to have much of an opinion.

But FWIW - if you have HQPlayer, it’s worth trying on NOS mode.


----------



## elementze

After a couple hours playing with HQPlayer on the BF2/64 in NOS mode, I think this is a real winner.  If for no other reason, the sonic impact of the various filters is clearly audible.  

When running some of the higher order resampling filters, such as sinc-L or poly-sinc-gauss-long (or longer versions) there is a very noticeable pickup in low level detail and space.


----------



## Smoothstereo (Aug 4, 2022)

elementze said:


> After a couple hours playing with HQPlayer on the BF2/64 in NOS mode, I think this is a real winner.  If for no other reason, the sonic impact of the various filters is clearly audible.
> 
> When running some of the higher order resampling filters, such as sinc-L or poly-sinc-gauss-long (or longer versions) there is a very noticeable pickup in low level detail and space.


I'm wondering will you get the same results with a normal BF2 but with the new firmware to do NOS? Or does the new TI chips have the more influence.


----------



## elementze

Smoothstereo said:


> I'm wondering will you get the same results with a normal BF2 but with the new firmware to do NOS? Or does the new TI chips have the more influence.


Good question. Probably similar response, since you are essentially turning off the internal reconstruction filter and using an external reconstruction filter.  But we won't know till we try 🙃


----------



## jester115

elementze said:


> After a couple hours playing with HQPlayer on the BF2/64 in NOS mode, I think this is a real winner.  If for no other reason, the sonic impact of the various filters is clearly audible.
> 
> When running some of the higher order resampling filters, such as sinc-L or poly-sinc-gauss-long (or longer versions) there is a very noticeable pickup in low level detail and space.


Excuse the probably basic question, but what is the point of having a DAC like the BF2 if you just bypass the internal filter in NOS mode and use your own? Would there be any benefit of using one NOS DAC over another in this situation?


----------



## elementze

jester115 said:


> Excuse the probably basic question, but what is the point of having a DAC like the BF2 if you just bypass the internal filter in NOS mode and use your own? Would there be any benefit of using one NOS DAC over another in this situation?


you still get the flavor of the analog section, the conversion method (sigma-delta or R-2R style), the output buffer stage, power supplies, etc.  The different filters interact differently with different dac architectures.  the trick is getting a DAC that lets you bypass as much of the internal DSP as possible, letting you directly drive the A2D conversion stage as much as possible.  BF2/64 seems to let you get pretty close, given how much of a sonic difference i'm hearing.


----------



## ksb643

Ordered at 9:00 am, shipped at 11:15!


----------



## jester115

elementze said:


> you still get the flavor of the analog section, the conversion method (sigma-delta or R-2R style), the output buffer stage, power supplies, etc.  The different filters interact differently with different dac architectures.  the trick is getting a DAC that lets you bypass as much of the internal DSP as possible, letting you directly drive the A2D conversion stage as much as possible.  BF2/64 seems to let you get pretty close, given how much of a sonic difference i'm hearing.


Thanks!


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 4, 2022)

elementze said:


> After a couple hours playing with HQPlayer on the BF2/64 in NOS mode, I think this is a real winner.  If for no other reason, the sonic impact of the various filters is clearly audible.
> 
> When running some of the higher order resampling filters, such as sinc-L or poly-sinc-gauss-long (or longer versions) there is a very noticeable pickup in low level detail and space.


I'd love to hear your reflections on the the HQPlayer interaction with the new 64 card. I was unfamiliar with this software, but at $225 it's an attainable upgrade.

This is a funny thread. I've been very happy with the performance of my Bifrost 2 for the past 1.5 years. Fantastic sound. Well satisfied with the performance with my several phones, especially after dialing in EQ (over literally many hours) to my tastes.

A new board appears (hopefully to be delivered Sat.), and one (me) is ready to throw more money at better sound. Better software? What's another $225?

Sickness or hobby?


----------



## Jigetz (Aug 4, 2022)

Has anyone had issues with "pixelated" sound after the 2/64 upgrade? After the first flash some songs when playing through Roon would be garbled and sound pixelated. I flashed a second time and it may be resolved but we shall see.

Initial impressions:

The base extension on this upgrade is very noticeable. So much so that I have had to turn down the gain on my sub a bit it hits that hard. Perhaps that is how it was supposed to sound all along?

Like others have said overall there is more clarity, a wider sound stage by quite a bit and larger bass extension. It digs deep. Not sure if I like it more yet since I am so accustomed to the OG BF2. There is definitely a noticeable change, as to be expected.

*Update*: Put the old card back in and no issues with pixilation or distortion. When I turned NOS on the new card the issue went away. Not sure what that means but either way... off to support I go. It kept doing it after a few tracks while using SE out on the new card. I may have been unlucky and got a bad card.


----------



## Ripper2860

Thanks for the post.  As tempted as I was to pull the trigger, it seems waiting a bit may be in order.  Maybe a fluke, but I'm in no hurry and knowing it is fully baked would be nice.  Please post up on your comms with support.


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks for the post.  As tempted as I was to pull the trigger, it seems waiting a bit may be in order.  Maybe a fluke, but I'm in no hurry and knowing it is fully baked would be nice.  Please post up on your comms with support.


My justification: Like it, keep it.

Don't like it, send it back. My cost: (5% restock fee ($15) +$15 return shipping).

My curiosity is worth $30 to me.


----------



## Ripper2860

Oh, I'll likely get it.  Just trying to figure out where it sits in the things to purchase queue.


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> Oh, I'll likely get it.  Just trying to figure out where it sits in the things to purchase queue.


I put my order in this past weekend, expecting it to be filled in the stated 4-6 weeks. I was surprised to find a shipment email on Tuesday. Had I known it was readily available, I may have waited.

In this world we live in, it may be prudent to acquire when available, and expel at one's leisure. What's the right answer? Who knows?

I'm with you that acquisition or not, the current Bifrost (non 2/64) is an endgame DAC.


----------



## Jigetz

Ripper2860 said:


> Thanks for the post.  As tempted as I was to pull the trigger, it seems waiting a bit may be in order.  Maybe a fluke, but I'm in no hurry and knowing it is fully baked would be nice.  Please post up on your comms with support.


Will do. Hopefully they respond quickly. They haven't been the very fast lately but it was the end of the day when I sent my email....

I did not test the balanced out so not sure if its my SE out or both but the pixilation/digitization of the music is just not right. I tried flashing a few times too and still it happened. Turned NOS on and no issue. Put in the old card, no issue so I may just have a DOA card. 

I hope they respond quickly. I think I may have just gotten a bad card but we will see. Schiit always comes through with support but just somewhat slow and i may have just gotten unlucky as I haven't seen others with the same problem yet on here or other forums.


----------



## DaBlakPill

Jigetz said:


> Has anyone had issues with "pixelated" sound after the 2/64 upgrade? After the first flash some songs when playing through Roon would be garbled and sound pixelated. I flashed a second time and it may be resolved but we shall see.


I’m having the same issue. After installing the 2/64 card and updating the firmware, my songs would sometimes sound distorted and fuzzy. I can temporary fix the issue by entering nos mode or cycling through the inputs. 

The fuzzy distorted sound tends to occur when I play audio from different programs like if I launch a game right after listening to a song on Tidal. Or playing a song from my FLAC library and then playing a song on Spotify. I’m guessing the change in sampling or bit rate is causing a glitch on my Bifrost 2/64. I can force the glitchy sound when I change the sampling rate under sound properties (windows) during a song. Usually there would be a click when the sampling rate changes, but it doesn’t happen sometimes with 2/64 card and consequently causes the distorted sound.

I’m not sure if this is just defective card and I should get a replacement or if there is a fix.


----------



## Jigetz (Aug 5, 2022)

Sounds like the exact issue I am having. Interesting that I’m not the only one. I wonder if it is firmware issue of if it is a hardware issue. My card looks prestine to the eye. Sounds like we’re both unlucky.

It definitely seems to be something with when changing sample rates.

Maybe the firmware on our cards is bad? I wonder if that is a possibility? Maybe a corrupt file?


----------



## mekap

Jigetz said:


> Sounds like the exact issue I am having. Interesting that I’m not the only one. I wonder if it is firmware issue of if it is a hardware issue. My card looks prestine to the eye. Sounds like we’re both unlucky.
> 
> It definitely seems to be something with when changing sample rates.


did you get a reply from Schiit about this issue?


----------



## Jigetz

mekap said:


> did you get a reply from Schiit about this issue?


No not yet. I’m still waiting for a reply.


----------



## mekap

Jigetz said:


> No not yet. I’m still waiting for a reply.


I ordered Bifrost 2/64, it is on its way to me and I am worried that my Bifrost will have such problems.


----------



## Jigetz

mekap said:


> I ordered Bifrost 2/64, it is on its way to me and I am worried that my Bifrost will have such problems.


Others have reported no such issues. You’re likely fine.


----------



## Friskyseal

I'm not sure this is related, but it seems fairly obvious to me that people should be upgrading the firmware _before _installing the card. Since the firmware works with the old card, best to update the Bifrost, test that NOS works to confirm it was successful, then shut it off and switch out the card. That's what I did and haven't had any issues, although now that I think about it I've only listened to it using exclusive mode on my audio player.

Just another interesting thing I wanted to share: I feel like my Bifrost 2 is now running hotter to the touch with the new card installed. It's still perfectly acceptable, but when I touch it I feel like there is a noticeable difference in temperature. Anyone else?


----------



## DaBlakPill

Friskyseal said:


> I'm not sure this is related, but it seems fairly obvious to me that people should be upgrading the firmware _before _installing the card. Since the firmware works with the old card, best to update the Bifrost, test that NOS works to confirm it was successful, then shut it off and switch out the card.


This is actually what I did. I tested NOS with the og card before switching to the 2/64.


----------



## cgb3

Friskyseal said:


> I'm not sure this is related, but it seems fairly obvious to me that people should be upgrading the firmware _before _installing the card. Since the firmware works with the old card, best to update the Bifrost, test that NOS works to confirm it was successful, then shut it off and switch out the card. That's what I did and haven't had any issues, although now that I think about it I've only listened to it using exclusive mode on my audio player.
> 
> Just another interesting thing I wanted to share: I feel like my Bifrost 2 is now running hotter to the touch with the new card installed. It's still perfectly acceptable, but when I touch it I feel like there is a noticeable difference in temperature. Anyone else?


Purchase a cheap IR temp gun and satisfy your curiosity. https://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Las...742844&sprefix=ir+temp+gun,aps,95&sr=8-3&th=1

As an aside: I use this type device for so many things. No one should be without. (I don't personally recommend this specific gun, it's a recommended product on the website I listed).


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 5, 2022)

DaBlakPill said:


> I’m having the same issue. After installing the 2/64 card and updating the firmware, my songs would sometimes sound distorted and fuzzy. I can temporary fix the issue by entering nos mode or cycling through the inputs.
> 
> The fuzzy distorted sound tends to occur when I play audio from different programs like if I launch a game right after listening to a song on Tidal. Or playing a song from my FLAC library and then playing a song on Spotify. I’m guessing the change in sampling or bit rate is causing a glitch on my Bifrost 2/64. I can force the glitchy sound when I change the sampling rate under sound properties (windows) during a song. Usually there would be a click when the sampling rate changes, but it doesn’t happen sometimes with 2/64 card and consequently causes the distorted sound.
> 
> I’m not sure if this is just defective card and I should get a replacement or if there is a fix.


I spent a few years as a tech for Uncle Sugar, working on what would now seem as stone age equipment (how many of you have switched out Magnetic Core Memory modules)?

I suggest you start backtracking your installation. Cables, connections, source. Switch out and compare.

It may well be in the new card, or not.


----------



## theeclone (Aug 6, 2022)

Picked up the 2/64 card from the Schiitr today! Had to listen to the O.G. Yggy through the Tyrs while I was at it.





Got to see an Urd (edit: Folkvangr, doh!) in the wild too. They were about to close up by the time I was done w the Yggy so didn't get to try it out.




Note to self: you only have to remove the bottom two screws  Did I learn that the hard way? Nope, not me!




The card came in a tube box! Good for keeping track of screws.




Back in the stack!




Back of the rack getting ridic. That PS Audio power cable goes great w the BF2




Just turned on my stack and am taking it for a whirl with some 24/96 vinyl rips. Very early 1st impressions:

Holy moly! Even without being warmed up I noticed the difference immediately. But I've put many hours in on this system w the old BF2 card. The comments about bass extension are right on. The bass feels more textured too. And I think I heard the word "sparkly" to describe the highs. That's a good way to put it. Sounds less tilted/dark than the old card. And the sound seems to wrap around me more, like it does when listening to vinyl.

I think this thing will have great synergy with my system, which can be a bit mellow. Will report back if any of these impressions change. Let the weekend begin!


----------



## tameral

Jigetz said:


> Sounds like the exact issue I am having. Interesting that I’m not the only one. I wonder if it is firmware issue of if it is a hardware issue. My card looks prestine to the eye. Sounds like we’re both unlucky.
> 
> It definitely seems to be something with when changing sample rates.
> 
> Maybe the firmware on our cards is bad? I wonder if that is a possibility? Maybe a corrupt file?



This happened to me as well.  I had many successful sample rate changes - but then the noisy, distorted sound commenced.

Overall - a more detailed DAC top to bottom, worth an upgrade (super easy to install), but there seems to be an issue that needs working out somewhere here.  My setup is perfect and the card is the only thing that changed.


----------



## Orange5o

I went through two Gungnirs due to similar issues first one would be fine until I went FROM anything with 96k sample rate to 44 and sound terrible until I went back or rebooted. Second one made weird squelching noises when I went back in forth and cleared up after 5 seconds. Are either of these sounding like that?


----------



## mekap

It seems that all owners of the new card have problems with sound. Is it so? What does the Sсhiit say about this?
I started thinking about returning the recently purchased updated Bifrost 2/64


----------



## Luckyleo

mekap said:


> It seems that all owners of the new card have problems with sound. Is it so? What does the Sсhiit say about this?
> I started thinking about returning the recently purchased updated Bifrost 2/64


I've put approx. 50 hours on my BF2/64 card.  Absolutely wonderful.  *Zero* issues whatsoever.


----------



## Hotdoggn

mekap said:


> It seems that all owners of the new card have problems with sound. Is it so? What does the Sсhiit say about this?
> I started thinking about returning the recently purchased updated Bifrost 2/64


I was able to install the card and update the firmware, and I have not had any issues when the sample rate changes. So no, it's not every owner that has these issues.


----------



## mekap

Thank you for answering and reassuring me, otherwise I began to worry. But now I'm calm. I hope my Bifrost will not have such problems with sound.


----------



## kumar402

No issues for me so far but I got new one and didn’t install the new card on old BF2 if that matters


----------



## mightytison

Just thought I would add that I updated before switching cards and I've also had no issues. I have 50+ hours on mine now. I'm loving the upgrade so far.


----------



## kumar402 (Aug 6, 2022)

Well take it with grain of salt as I have a new amp and it’s been long time since I spent time with BF2 but new card seems be have a more even frequency response I.e not as warm sounding as old card and but bass is deep and seems to have more dynamic range. Clarity is good overall. Good amount of information. I don’t see anyone getting upset or underwhelmed with BF2 unless you are coming to it from Wavedream.
Throw in a tube amp like Bottlehead Mainline and a pair of ZMF with this DAC and enjoy the music


----------



## WaveTheory

mekap said:


> It seems that all owners of the new card have problems with sound. Is it so? What does the Sсhiit say about this?
> I started thinking about returning the recently purchased updated Bifrost 2/64


No issues here either. Enjoying it a lot so far.


----------



## kumar402 (Aug 6, 2022)

Stage width and height remains same. I don’t see any improvement in that regard and well it’s still BF2 but I think clarity is better for sure and hence easier to pick details. A step in right direction towards modern R2R sound. Stage width and height are not expansive like Sonnet but still good with no vacuum or 3 blob effect


----------



## Friskyseal

WaveTheory said:


> No issues here either. Enjoying it a lot so far.



Hello WaveTheory, this is audiophiles.


----------



## tameral (Aug 6, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> Well take it with grain of salt as I have a new amp and it’s been long time since I spent time with BF2 but new card seems be have a more even frequency response I.e not as warm sounding as old card and but bass is deep and seems to have more dynamic range. Clarity is good overall. Good amount of information. I don’t see anyone getting upset or underwhelmed with BF2 unless you are coming to it from Wavedream.
> Throw in a tube amp like Bottlehead Mainline and a pair of ZMF with this DAC and enjoy the music


Yes it seems to be a different DAC.  I wouldn't say that it sounds all that similar to the Bifrost 2 OG - of course such a comparison is subjective.  I'm happy to own both cards, for sure.  I can see myself putting the old card back in from time to time for a smoother, warmer, more relaxed experience.  This one for sure is more detailed which often means more treble, but the bass is more detailed as well.  There are definite pros to the old Bifrost 2, but this is lovely to have as well.


----------



## kumar402

tameral said:


> Yes it seems to be a different DAC.  I wouldn't say that it sounds all that similar to the Bifrost 2 OG - of course such a comparison is subjective.  I'm happy to own both cards, for sure.  I can see myself putting the old card back in from time to time for a smoother, warmer, more relaxed experience.  This one for sure is more detailed which often means more treble, but the bass is more detailed as well.  There are definite pros to the old Bifrost 2, but this is lovely to have as well.  Mine has glitched a couple of times with the pixellated, noisy, distorted weird sound but nothing that isn't easily fixed by stopping the DAC, starting a different track and circling back around so far.


Well that’s the benefit of modular design. I like this approach. Getting new card from time to time without breaking the bank. Metrum and Sonnet also have modular R2R card approach but they are not cheap by any means.


----------



## theeclone

kumar402 said:


> Stage width and height remains same. I don’t see any improvement in that regard and well it’s still BF2 but I think clarity is better for sure and hence easier to pick details. A step in right direction towards modern R2R sound. Stage width and height are not expansive like Sonnet but still good with no vacuum or 3 blob effect


FWIW - The stage feels wider to me, tho that could be down to better synergy with my system than the old card. Maybe the cues come through better allowing better location across the stereo field.


----------



## Farrellc

Finally got my card and installed it today. I got that digital sound that some people were complaining about so I cycled the NOS on which fixed it then switched it back and the problem stayed gone. Definitely noticing more bass and more details. I'm most impressed with the improved separation between the instruments and vocals, it's a great improvement to me. I'm still happy to have the old card though because, as others have said, it's nice to have different "flavors" to choose from. Overall, well worth the cost of admission


----------



## Jigetz

I can’t seem to fix the issue with my card. I did the NOS on/off. Then put the OG card in. Reflashed. Popped the new card in and still same issues. I also reflashed the SD card as well. Issues persisted with the distortion. Still waiting for a response from Schiit.


----------



## kumar402

Ok so even I got that fuzzy sound when my sample rate changed to 192Khz. Switching thru various input and playing other songs and coming back to 192Khz version resolved it. Looks like some common issue.But I can’t reproduce it now.


----------



## Btarr

Are all you folks having issues with a PC as your source?  Or on a dedicated streamer, or a Mac?   
My Mac laptop is the source and I’m not having any issues at all.


----------



## kumar402

Btarr said:


> Are all you folks having issues with a PC as your source?  Or on a dedicated streamer, or a Mac?
> My Mac laptop is the source and I’m not having any issues at all.


I’m using Mac and never encountered it till just now and now I’m unable to reproduce it while going thru same set of songs. I’m not sure what caused it. It was not distorted but fuzzy


----------



## Orange5o

For those not having the issue, is your source upsampling? I'm thinking it's more likely to replicate the issue when you have the clicks for sample rate change, which is what I saw on newest vco iteration of the Gungnir...


----------



## Friskyseal (Aug 6, 2022)

Yup, I just tested it too. I am typically listening to 48khz out of Foobar2000 exclusive mode. I have a few 24bit/96khz files, so I tried playing one of those. I hear the unit click to indicate the sample rate change (as was normal before), and then the sound gets tizzy and distorted. It doesn't sound right. When I switch back to 48khz, it seems to fix itself (?)* Hmph, that's disappointing.

*(?) because it's actually hard to tell if it goes back to how it should. It's hard to tell.
Edit: I feel like it doesn't sound correct again until I cycle power off/on via the rear switch.


----------



## Orange5o

I had a perfectly working BF2 in my setup that I wanted to move to my secondary setup so got a Gungnir, right after they made the vco revision and both units I tried had issues going _to and then back from _higher sample rates. One sounded atrocious and the second made some weird digital squeals for 5 seconds. Wondering if something in the architecture for the new boards is struggling with sample rate changes...


----------



## kumar402

My library has various sample rate and it’s been playing for last few hrs but this fuzzy thing never happened till that one song and then I just cycled thru the input and it started working fine and now I’m unable to replicate it so it’s not consistent in my case at least and has just happened once. Will see if it happens again.


----------



## Jigetz (Aug 6, 2022)

Ok, I swapped my USB cable.

The one that has worked perfectly fine with the OG card for the last 3+ years and it seems like it may have resolved the issue. Maybe its something to do with Unison and the new card or... I just had a cable it didn't like? I also connected directly to my PC and also through my hub and it seems to be working. Holding my breath. I probably should have done this sooner but since the OG worked fine I ruled it out. I was using an amazon basics cable and moved over to a spare one I had lying around.

Will continue testing.


----------



## Friskyseal

It's something with the card or the firmware. I can't play 24bit/96khz files anymore, and I never had an issue before playing these files.


----------



## Alcophone

I had some issues with the original Bifrost 2 (not 2/64) and WASAPI in event mode, depending on the buffer length. I recorded the audio.

20 ms is fine
21 ms messes up all sample rates
23 ms only gets 88.2 and 176.4 kHz right
Does the 2/64 problem sound like that or different?


----------



## Reputator

Jigetz said:


> Ok, I swapped my USB cable.
> 
> The one that has worked perfectly fine with the OG card for the last 3+ years and it seems like it may have resolved the issue. Maybe its something to do with Unison and the new card or... I just had a cable it didn't like? I also connected directly to my PC and also through my hub and it seems to be working. Holding my breath. I probably should have done this sooner but since the OG worked fine I ruled it out. I was using an amazon basics cable and moved over to a spare one I had lying around.
> 
> Will continue testing.



IMO it's worth spending even just $30-40 for a higher quality USB cable, even if you don't believe it makes a sonic difference, at least then you can trust the signal coming through and you know it will last a long time. Considering the DAC itself is $700-800, it's really not a costly investment.


----------



## cgb3

Hotdoggn said:


> I was able to install the card and update the firmware, and I have not had any issues when the sample rate changes. So no, it's not every owner that has these issues.


One


Jigetz said:


> I can’t seem to fix the issue with my card. I did the NOS on/off. Then put the OG card in. Reflashed. Popped the new card in and still same issues. I also reflashed the SD card as well. Issues persisted with the distortion. Still waiting for a response from Schiit.


I've read more than a few reports, from several forums, of the new card being difficult to seat.

If you're having problems, pull the top cover off (the 4 screws on the top cover), and slide the cover forward.

Install the card with line of sight. One should be able to install the screws to secure the card with the cover off.

Plug in one's cables, and give the unit a test.

Assuming all is well, re-install the semi-clamshell top (first turning off power).


----------



## Jigetz

Reputator said:


> IMO it's worth spending even just $30-40 for a higher quality USB cable, even if you don't believe it makes a sonic difference, at least then you can trust the signal coming through and you know it will last a long time. Considering the DAC itself is $700-800, it's really not a costly investment.


Yea I was using the basics one to no issue though. I have a mono price I swapped to that I use a lot for other devices and it seems to be working now. 

I’m not a huge cables guy. That said this one seems to of made a difference on the USB side of things.


----------



## Reputator

Jigetz said:


> Yea I was using the basics one to no issue though. I have a mono price I swapped to that I use a lot for other devices and it seems to be working now.
> 
> I’m not a huge cables guy. That said this one seems to of made a difference on the USB side of things.



I'm definitely not a cable guy either. I just spend the minimum possible on cables that aren't trash, and call it a day. Most recently I bought my own USB cable from cablesforless.com, and before that I got my Arya cable from Hart Cables, and I've shopped at Blue Jeans Cables before as well... so yeah. I'm a big proponent of getting the most for the most reasonable dollar when it comes to cables.


----------



## j0val

I haven’t had any issues with my BF2/64 upgrade . Easy setup and no strange sound anomalies. 

After having it for a few days, I’ve come to enjoy it more with each listen. 

With my Grado RS1x, there’s more detail and bass extension. It is a bit “brighter” in comparison to the old card, which is something I’ve tried not to add with Grados. However, it’s not enough to make it fatiguing in any way and is very much a welcome addition. I have noticed though that the bass can be a little boomy now using the G cushion on the Grado (have an F cushion on the way to hopefully remedy that).  

With my Genelec G Two desktop speakers, this is really where the upgrade shines. It’s been a real pleasure listening to these speakers now. I’ve always liked them, but there’s more “magic” to them now. Detail, imaging, and bass have all been enhanced. Movies and music sound awesome on these speakers with the upgrade. There’s also a plentiful amount of bass, so I actually turned down the adjustment on my Lokius. I’m very happy with this setup. 

I will consider my setup as complete (for awhile) once the Lyr+ is released.


----------



## Voxata (Aug 7, 2022)

I've been enjoying the BF2/64 - I primarily use speakers with it. I like it less so with headphones. It's a bit aggressive now for my tastes - thankfully I own both cards so it is EASY to swap back. However, as a 2ch the BF2/64 is REALLY good.


----------



## tmac17

Disappointed to see many of you guys experiencing problems with the upgraded Bitfrost. Seems more than just a few bad units. I'm not very familiar with many other forums so not sure how wide spread this is but I'm going to assume it's not good. Hard to believe Schiit would put something out without running it through a gauntlet of test. But...guess I'm just naive.  I don't doubt it sounds wonderful...but no one should have to worry about how they use it or what bit rate a track is...or cycle through everything or stress about anything. Wither you paid for the upgrade or buying new for $829...it should be good to go.


----------



## mekap (Aug 7, 2022)

My Bifrost is on its way to me now and I'm worried that I'll run into the same problems and annoyances as some. Is this not an isolated case and is this an oversight on the part of the Schiit?   
Has anyone received a response from Schiit?


----------



## Friskyseal (Aug 7, 2022)

Just to provide some clarity to those that think their card doesn't have the problem and so we can have more people test for it:

The issue only will happen it your Bifrost "clicks" to indicate that it has changed sample rates. But this will never happen for you if you only use your Bifrost in shared mode. So for instance, if you are listening out of Windows in shared mode (you're using the volume control on Windows to switch to/control your Bifrost), and Windows is set to output 48khz—your Bifrost will only receive 48khz data no matter what files you play. Even if you play a 192khz file, Windows will resample it down and output 48khz because in shared mode it is only going to output a uniform sample rate. This is why it is bad to use shared mode generally because it is adding a layer of digital signal processing that can degrade sound quality.

If you have an audio player that can utilize exclusive mode, you can output to your Bifrost directly and bypass this "Windows layer." I use foobar2000. So now when I play a 44.1khz file, the Bifrost receives 44.1khz. When I play a 96khz file, the Bifrost audibly clicks to indicate a sample rate change and is now receiving 96khz. This is where the problem occurs and the sound becomes distorted, something that never happened with the previous firmware and/or analog card.

Therefore, don't assume your card is working properly unless you have tested actual sample rate changes. I thought my card was fine because the vast majority of my library is 44.1, but Bifrost is supposed to be able to play up to 24/192 so this is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.


----------



## kumar402

I feel the problem happens when we are in 44 kHz[44.1, 88.2,176.4)cycle and move to 48Khz cycle(48,96,192) then sometimes the sound gets fuzzy as if long trailing edge behind each instruments and some noise. So far I have only used Unison USB and will try out Coax to see if this happens with other input as well. May be new firmware will fix it and we don’t need to replace it.


----------



## Friskyseal

kumar402 said:


> I feel the problem happens when we are in 44 kHz[44.1, 88.2,176.4)cycle and move to 48Khz cycle(48,96,192)



I get it consistently when I switch from 48khz to 96khz. I actually have my foobar setup to resample all my 44.1 CDs to 48, but if I play higher than 48 the resampler shuts off.


----------



## SLC1966

I am running Bifrost 2/64 in Exclusive mode with Tidal.  I am also using Qobuz.  Both with MacBook Pro and also using Jot 2.  I had the odd noises for about 5 seconds the first couple times I played music after I put the card in my Bifrost OG.  I put the 2/64 card in Bifrost and then did the flash update with the SD card it came with.  

After the first 5 seconds of odd sounds it has been sounding great and I am hearing the clicks in-between songs when needed.  I have about 20 hours on the new card and have kept Bifrost on until going home Friday.  I will report back tomorrow if something happens tomorrow when I turn it back on when I get to work.


----------



## tameral (Aug 9, 2022)

Anyone tried putting back in the old card to see if it has these issues?


----------



## mekap

Friskyseal said:


> Just to provide some clarity to those that think their card doesn't have the problem and so we can have more people test for it:
> 
> The issue only will happen it your Bifrost "clicks" to indicate that it has changed sample rates. But this will never happen for you if you only use your Bifrost in shared mode. So for instance, if you are listening out of Windows in shared mode (you're using the volume control on Windows to switch to/control your Bifrost), and Windows is set to output 48khz—your Bifrost will only receive 48khz data no matter what files you play. Even if you play a 192khz file, Windows will resample it down and output 48khz because in shared mode it is only going to output a uniform sample rate. This is why it is bad to use shared mode generally because it is adding a layer of digital signal processing that can degrade sound quality.
> 
> ...


If I use WINDOWS and turn on Qobuz with USB exclusive access, will there also be such artifacts in the sound?


----------



## Ripper2860

I've flashed the new firmware on my 2x OG Bifrost and have not experienced any of these issues, but I have not purchased the new card -- running new firmware with the old card.  Is there any general consensus as to whether this is a new card issue or a new firmware issue?  Has anyone that just flashed their OG Bifrost 2 and only using the OG card reported this issue?


----------



## jester115

Ripper2860 said:


> I've flashed the new firmware on my 2x OG Bifrost and have not experienced any of these issues, but I have not purchased the new card -- running new firmware with the old card.  Is there any general consensus as to whether this is a new card issue or a new firmware issue?  Has anyone that just flashed their OG Bifrost 2 and only using the OG card reported this issue?


I’ll try updating my Bifrost 2 today with the new firmware and see if I can recreate the issues without the new card in. Other than NOS mode, there shouldn’t be any changes without a new card right?


----------



## quimbo

My experience has not been the best,  Swapped out cards, tried to flash and it only went thru the normal sequence when turning it on. Tried multiple times and eventually this piece that must stop card when being entered fell off





I have tried getting it back in but cannot figure out how it is supposed to go.  If someone that takes the top off can let me know how it goes in, I can try but I probably still won't be able to fix it

I more than likely will purchase a BiFrost 2/64 and use this in another location. If I do, I will have a brand new 2/64 card to sell, taking off in the morning for a week, will post here in 8 to 10 days if I am selling the card


----------



## Hotdoggn

I have a BF2 that I upgraded with the firmware and analog card I received Monday. I have had it on since I swapped out the card. I was just bouncing around playing different music files using Musicbee with WASAPI exclusive enabled. Jumped between files that were 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96 khz. The BF2 clicked in between every single file, and just played the recording without any digital artifacts or distortion. Just wanted to throw in my experience, since I find that the upgraded analog card makes the BF2 much more enjoyable and I hope that other people aren't totally dissuaded from upgrading. I just hope that this holds true and I don't run into any issues later on!


----------



## Orange5o

What's interesting is in the same setup I had a pre-update BF2 with no problems, then the new Gungnir had the same problems described above, now I've upgraded to 2/64 with the BF2 and had no issues as described. Yet, at least.


----------



## Farrellc

So an update from yesterday, after cycling the NOS on and off to fix the digital sound I started to get a 1s long, high-pitched error noise randomly every time I played a song. Eventually it caused visual artifacts on my monitor and then blared the error noise before crashing my computer. Booted everything back up and the digital sound was back so I cycled NOS again which relieved the issue. No more error noises which was good. I reinstalled the firmware today and all of the issues are now gone! No more digital sounding music on start-up and no need to cycle NOS.


----------



## Jigetz (Aug 7, 2022)

Hotdoggn said:


> I have a BF2 that I upgraded with the firmware and analog card I received Monday. I have had it on since I swapped out the card. I was just bouncing around playing different music files using Musicbee with WASAPI exclusive enabled. Jumped between files that were 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96 khz. The BF2 clicked in between every single file, and just played the recording without any digital artifacts or distortion. Just wanted to throw in my experience, since I find that the upgraded analog card makes the BF2 much more enjoyable and I hope that other people aren't totally dissuaded from upgrading. I just hope that this holds true and I don't run into any issues later on!



When I first noticed this happening to me there wasn't the usual clicking that you outline here and that I was accustomed to with the old card.  So, no click and then the distortion would occur. I have to say that since I reinserted the card for the 5th or so time and swapped the USB cable I haven't had the issue come up again. Also, since the bitrate's switching is a mechanical relay switch, is it possible that the switch is getting stuck? Grasping at straws here but why is it that swapping my USB cable would fix this issue for me? The USB signal wasn't strong/clean enough or were the relays stuck?


----------



## tmac17

@Jason Stoddard
More and more people are discovering issues when sample rate changes. Reference previous post starting at..I think...thread page 196.


----------



## theveterans

Ripper2860 said:


> I've flashed the new firmware on my 2x OG Bifrost and have not experienced any of these issues, but I have not purchased the new card -- running new firmware with the old card.  Is there any general consensus as to whether this is a new card issue or a new firmware issue?  Has anyone that just flashed their OG Bifrost 2 and only using the OG card reported this issue?



OG card here. No issues . Though I've switched to NOS mode almost all the time as it sounds better to my system. No issues with rate change across all 3 inputs and 44.1 to 48 / 88.2 / 96 / 176.4 / 192 with NOS mode


----------



## WaveTheory

Friskyseal said:


> Just to provide some clarity to those that think their card doesn't have the problem and so we can have more people test for it:
> 
> The issue only will happen it your Bifrost "clicks" to indicate that it has changed sample rates. But this will never happen for you if you only use your Bifrost in shared mode. So for instance, if you are listening out of Windows in shared mode (you're using the volume control on Windows to switch to/control your Bifrost), and Windows is set to output 48khz—your Bifrost will only receive 48khz data no matter what files you play. Even if you play a 192khz file, Windows will resample it down and output 48khz because in shared mode it is only going to output a uniform sample rate. This is why it is bad to use shared mode generally because it is adding a layer of digital signal processing that can degrade sound quality.
> 
> ...



I just stepped through a sequence playing a full track each at 16/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 (a conversion from a DSD64), and 24/192. I used exclusive mode on Audirvana 3.5 and USB connection on a Windows 10 PC. I heard the clicking relays each time. I experienced no issues. 

I agree that the number of reports is a bit concerning. I took the liberty of creating an editable Google spreadsheet to try to gather [what I think is] useful information for Schiit. Please, ALL - whether your BF2/64 is working well or not - take a moment to fill out the spreadsheet. It should only take a moment. You will need to look up your software music player version/build number and your device OS build number. There are color coded instructions for working or not working. Hopefully this will compile enough info on what works and what doesn't work in one spot that Schiit, among others, can figure out what's going on. 

Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hsnAilq2EunjA4RXMyhJI7mkbPirbYGFN6v3L460UQU/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## theeclone (Aug 7, 2022)

Still no issues here, using kodi with alsa for exclusive mode over usb. One interesting thing to note about my experience is that in my blind excitement to get this upgrade in place, I accidentally removed the usb module, forgetting it's separate from the analog section. Wonder if that had the benefit of discharging some capacitors and resetting the usb module, as it were, before I put it back in place.

I hear the relay engage when changing formats. I also never used the sd card provided by schiit. I had upgraded using the firmware downloaded from the website while I still had the old card in.

Edit: using SE outputs only so far.


----------



## Btarr

How are folks feeding their preamps or active speakers?  single ended or Balanced.   SE for me and no issue.  Could this be where the issue lives?


----------



## Friskyseal

Btarr said:


> How are folks feeding their preamps or active speakers?  single ended or Balanced.   SE for me and no issue.  Could this be where the issue lives?



I thought of this variable. I use some headphones SE in/out and some XLR in/out, so I do use both. I thought, "Hmm, maybe it's only happening to SE and others are only testing balanced?" But then I played the 96khz album again and it happened exactly the same.

If it truly isn't happening for everybody, then it probably isn't the firmware. It feels like some of us just got boards with a faulty component? I would be loathe to send mine back because it just sounds so good! (When it works)


----------



## Friskyseal

On an unrelated note, hey @WaveTheory can I flag something for your review (and others, too, but you're pretty good at investigating this stuff) —

If you recall, Modius used different opamps for its SE and XLR output. Bifrost previously used identical ones, LME49724 for both outputs. But now it is "LME49724 and OPA1656", and if you look on the card you see 1 OPA1656 in front of the SE-outs and 2 LME49724 in front of the XLR-outs.

I'm wondering it there is a difference in sound signatures between the two outputs now? I feel like my subjective impressions are that there is, with the results being somewhat similar to what it was for Modius. The SE-outs seem a little bit warmer and bassier with the XLR-outs being a little more "studio neutral" as you would say.


----------



## WaveTheory

Friskyseal said:


> On an unrelated note, hey @WaveTheory can I flag something for your review (and others, too, but you're pretty good at investigating this stuff) —
> 
> If you recall, Modius used different opamps for its SE and XLR output. Bifrost previously used identical ones, LME49724 for both outputs. But now it is "LME49724 and OPA1656", and if you look on the card you see 1 OPA1656 in front of the SE-outs and 2 LME49724 in front of the XLR-outs.
> 
> I'm wondering it there is a difference in sound signatures between the two outputs now? I feel like my subjective impressions are that there is, with the results being somewhat similar to what it was for Modius. The SE-outs seem a little bit warmer and bassier with the XLR-outs being a little more "studio neutral" as you would say.



I haven't noticed that yet but I usually use the balanced out into a solid-state amp and the SE out into a tube amp. I'll be sure to do a more direct compare for the full review. The SE performance was a mild concern of mine. The OG BF2 was one of the few DACs in its class that was almost as good from SE as balanced, which I think is important, but unfortunately rare. So yes, I will give it a thorough checking.


----------



## bevanc

I'm not having any issues so far with mine.


----------



## erwinjaquez

Hi, I’m having the same distortion when changing from 16/44 to 24/96 as well. 

I received my new card 2 days ago. I first updated the firmware on the old card. I tested the new NOS feature back and forth, everything worked as it should be. I then installed the new card. I started listening an album 16/44 everything was fine. But then I change to a 24/96 and heard for the first time that distortion, specially on the highs. 

To make the story short. I’m able to replicate the problem 100% of the time. I swapped the cards multiple times and the problem occurs only on the new one. 

So when listening to a 16/44 and change to a 24/96 the distortion starts. I did this back and forth several times to the point that the music sounded like a 8 bit video game. 

My source is a Mac Mini using Audirvāna studio. My bifrost is 2 years old and I’ve never had a problem before. 

Mac>bifrost2>freyaS>2aegirs monoblock


----------



## tmac17

I have no doubts everyone here who is having distortion issues knows what they are doing. This isn't anyone's first go around with this hobby. I hope enough people send their dacs back so Schiit can diagnose their problem. Sooner the better. Sorry to everyone who is dealing with this.


----------



## Reputator (Aug 11, 2022)

By the way, *just in case* for whatever reason, if anyone needs to reinstall the old firmware, I saved a copy and put it up on my Google Drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s_E-LT742hYUdJClxgFs1qTwXrxyYIGv/view?usp=sharing

EDIT: Update, the firmware page on Schiit's website now says you can't install older firmware. So, nevermind!


----------



## tmac17

WaveTheory said:


> I just stepped through a sequence playing a full track each at 16/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 (a conversion from a DSD64), and 24/192. I used exclusive mode on Audirvana 3.5 and USB connection on a Windows 10 PC. I heard the clicking relays each time. I experienced no issues.
> 
> I agree that the number of reports is a bit concerning. I took the liberty of creating an editable Google spreadsheet to try to gather [what I think is] useful information for Schiit. Please, ALL - whether your BF2/64 is working well or not - take a moment to fill out the spreadsheet. It should only take a moment. You will need to look up your software music player version/build number and your device OS build number. There are color coded instructions for working or not working. Hopefully this will compile enough info on what works and what doesn't work in one spot that Schiit, among others, can figure out what's going on.
> 
> Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hsnAilq2EunjA4RXMyhJI7mkbPirbYGFN6v3L460UQU/edit?usp=sharing


This is legit. Thanks man.


----------



## inmytaxi

Send one to me for testing. I have all kinds of ways to torture anything that comes near me.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Alcophone said:


> I had some issues with the original Bifrost 2 (not 2/64) and WASAPI in event mode, depending on the buffer length. I recorded the audio.
> 
> 20 ms is fine
> 21 ms messes up all sample rates
> ...


While I still have the original BF2, there are times when I get garbled output with high sample rate, large bit count files.  I use Foobar2k and would get this behavior using WASAPI event mode.  Going to WASAPI push mode and those files play without issue.  My 2¢


----------



## Orange5o

Anyone using coax? Wondering if all the issues so far are via usb...


----------



## WaveTheory

Orange5o said:


> Anyone using coax? Wondering if all the issues so far are via usb...



I just checked the coax input sourced from a Singxer SU-2 DDC. I played a 16/44.1 file then a 24/96 file, hearing the relay click before the start of each track. I had no issues. I also have the BF2 connected to my PC mobo's TosLink output using el-cheapo Amazon Basics optical cables and a dirt-cheap powered TosLink splitter [being a reviewer means there are multiple DACs on my desk at any given time, lol]. I have Windows 10's audio mixer set to output everything 24/96 and have no issues there either. I've been trying to replicate what has been described here and in the spreadsheet I created and I cannot get the BF2/64 to misbehave. This is not to say that those reporting problems are wrong, just that I can't trigger those faults in my system.


----------



## Archerlink3

FYI I just got my new Bifrost 2/64 in and I am having the same distortion issues.  I am using USB with Amazon Music and I am able to reproduce the issue by toggling exclusive mode or switching between my Jot2 DAC module for A/B testing.  When switching the issue seems to reproduce about 50% of the time and will affect all apps.  When I switch, I do not get the "clicking" noise and it should also be the same sample rate unlike what others are reporting.


----------



## mintshows

Archerlink3 said:


> FYI I just got my new Bifrost 2/64 in and I am having the same distortion issues.  I am using USB with Amazon Music and I am able to reproduce the issue by toggling exclusive mode or switching between my Jot2 DAC module for A/B testing.  When switching the issue seems to reproduce about 50% of the time and will affect all apps.  When I switch, I do not get the "clicking" noise and it should also be the same sample rate unlike what others are reporting.


Seems like for the people with this issue it's pretty consistent that when the sample rate changes, they don't get the 'click' from the relay and can hear some of the digital distortion. 

Has anyone with this issue been able to fix it by re-seating the board? Wondering if it's an alignment issue that can be fixed by taking it out and re-aligning it.


----------



## karlmizak

WaveTheory said:


> I just checked the coax input sourced from a Singxer SU-2 DDC. I played a 16/44.1 file then a 24/96 file, hearing the relay click before the start of each track. I had no issues. I also have the BF2 connected to my PC mobo's TosLink output using el-cheapo Amazon Basics optical cables and a dirt-cheap powered TosLink splitter [being a reviewer means there are multiple DACs on my desk at any given time, lol]. I have Windows 10's audio mixer set to output everything 24/96 and have no issues there either. I've been trying to replicate what has been described here and in the spreadsheet I created and I cannot get the BF2/64 to misbehave. This is not to say that those reporting problems are wrong, just that I can't trigger those faults in my system.


Just received Bifrost 2 64 upgrade yesterday. 4-5 hours on it so far with no issues. More detail throughout, but not harsh. Very happy with it so far. Board a little tricky to seat (no rails) but other than that easy. Running Tidal > Node 2i > Bifrost > Freya S. Coax into Bifrost from Node 2i. XLR out to Freya S.


----------



## kumar402

72 hrs since my new BF2 is connected to power and I perceive more thickness/Meat to sound as compared to day 1


----------



## erwinjaquez

Jigetz said:


> No not yet. I’m still waiting for a reply.


Hi. Just wondering if schiit has contacted you yet. I’m having same problem and no answer from schiit.


----------



## ksb643

Just got mine and hooked it up. Initial impression is quite positive. The break in has started.


----------



## JerryLeeds

My new board has been breaking in for about a day .. I’m using usb from a topping M50 … all my music has been burned from cd’s .. everything I have is flac 44/16 bit … no need for relay to click 

Need to find a few different files to determine if I have the same issue


----------



## Mike-WI

To understand consumer electronics problems you ideally would know the numerator, denominator, and social media forum posting % of users. We don’t know that. I have lost track in this thread, but are all of the problems reported only for the upgrade board or also for the new Bifrost 2/64?


----------



## streaml1ne

GumbyDammit223 said:


> While I still have the original BF2, there are times when I get garbled output with high sample rate, large bit count files.  I use Foobar2k and would get this behavior using WASAPI event mode.  Going to WASAPI push mode and those files play without issue.  My 2¢


Concur with this, event mode gave me issues pre-upgrade on the higher sample rate tracks so I just switched it back to push and everything was fine.

Here I was blissfully ignorant of this new problem til someone on reddit pointed out it was an issue and sure enough I'm affected. Steps to reproduce:

1. Play a 44.1 track (plays fine and has done for days since the upgrade)
2. Play a 96k track, relay clicks and the track plays fine.
3. While playing said 96k track seek or start another 96k track and the output goes metallic.
4. Play another 44.1 track, relay clicks and it plays fine. This resets the system as it were and you can start another 96k track without distortion.


----------



## Friskyseal

Mike-WI said:


> I have lost track in this thread, but are all of the problems reported only for the upgrade board or also for the new Bifrost 2/64?



The Bifrost 2/64 is the same Bifrost as before but with the new upgrade card, so it wouldn't be any different. It's probably just that there are way more upgraders so far than people that have bought a whole new DAC.


----------



## streaml1ne

streaml1ne said:


> Concur with this, event mode gave me issues pre-upgrade on the higher sample rate tracks so I just switched it back to push and everything was fine.
> 
> Here I was blissfully ignorant of this new problem til someone on reddit pointed out it was an issue and sure enough I'm affected. Steps to reproduce:
> 
> ...



If I turn on NOS mode none of this happens with 96k tracks.


----------



## Friskyseal

streaml1ne said:


> If I turn on NOS mode none of this happens with 96k tracks.



Okay, very interesting. I made some progress. The issue doesn't happen if the DAC is in NOS mode. The problem is that NOS mode sounds terrible, but okay. Separate issue.

Standard mode:
48khz >  96khz, relay clicks, seek track > sound goes distorted.

NOS mode:
48khz > 96khz, relay clicks, seek track > sound remains normal. It sounds way worse (because of the lack of filter), but there is none of that tizzy distortion.

Maybe this gives some hope that the issue can be resolved via firmware?


----------



## Mike-WI

Friskyseal said:


> The Bifrost 2/64 is the same Bifrost as before but with the new upgrade card, so it wouldn't be any different. It's probably just that there are way more upgraders so far than people that have bought a whole new DAC.


Maybe. 
That is a hypothesis not a fact. 
We will see. 
I’m holding off on a Bifrost 2/64 purchase for now.


----------



## Neweymatt

Mike-WI said:


> I’m holding off on a Bifrost 2/64 purchase for now.


Pains me to have to agree, I really hope Schiit figure this out for all of you intrepid early-adopters. 

I will have to import mine from the US, so I will wait until this issue is sorted.


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 8, 2022)

tmac17 said:


> Disappointed to see many of you guys experiencing problems with the upgraded Bitfrost. Seems more than just a few bad units. I'm not very familiar with many other forums so not sure how wide spread this is but I'm going to assume it's not good. Hard to believe Schiit would put something out without running it through a gauntlet of test. But...guess I'm just naive.  I don't doubt it sounds wonderful...but no one should have to worry about how they use it or what bit rate a track is...or cycle through everything or stress about anything. Wither you paid for the upgrade or buying new for $829...it should be good to go.


My unit was delivered today.

SD card updated the unit without issue.

Attempted to install the new card from the back. After 4-5 minutes, I went with the cover off installation. No problems. Card was seated easily, and I replaced the top. What's that nice shiny little "turned" SS button doing on my desk?

The source selection button isn't affixed to the front of the top cover. Remove cover, place button, cover the front of the cover and button with tape (I actually used blu tack to avoid residue). Unit is back in one piece.

Really enjoying the sound. I know that Jason S. and many others claim there's no burn in. I'm at about 4 hours. The sound seems to be improving (maybe my ears are adjusting .

More Impressions to follow after a week or so of listening.


----------



## cgb3

mintshows said:


> Seems like for the people with this issue it's pretty consistent that when the sample rate changes, they don't get the 'click' from the relay and can hear some of the digital distortion.
> 
> Has anyone with this issue been able to fix it by re-seating the board? Wondering if it's an alignment issue that can be fixed by taking it out and re-aligning it.


Who knows without trying? It's the first thing I'd try.

I suggest anyone with problems, take the top cover off (securing the front selection button while doing so), and re-seat the card.


----------



## Reputator

streaml1ne said:


> Concur with this, event mode gave me issues pre-upgrade on the higher sample rate tracks so I just switched it back to push and everything was fine.
> 
> Here I was blissfully ignorant of this new problem til someone on reddit pointed out it was an issue and sure enough I'm affected. Steps to reproduce:
> 
> ...



Yes, I have to use WASAPI in push mode as well.


----------



## tameral (Aug 9, 2022)

I've been using just the Qobuz App without issues.  For what it's worth.


----------



## erwinjaquez

cgb3 said:


> Who knows without trying? It's the first thing I'd try.
> 
> I suggest anyone with problems, take the top cover off (securing the front selection button while doing so), and re-seat the card.


I've done that multiple times. The problem remains and I can replicate it every time with the new card. The old one stills work perfectly all the time.


----------



## kumar402

I moved to Coax and so far it’s working fine. Anyways I’m not USB user so fingers crossed with coax.


----------



## theeclone

Friskyseal said:


> The problem is that NOS mode sounds terrible


lol. Schiit NOS mode: It sounds terrible™️


----------



## theveterans (Aug 8, 2022)

theeclone said:


> lol. Schiit NOS mode: It sounds terrible™️



I'm a bit lonely in the NOS camp lol. NOS saved me from the 2/64 GAS since OG card in NOS sounds more natural/analog without the NOS roll-off traits to me than the OS mode (I'm referring to 44.1 KHz NOS specifically)


----------



## theeclone

theveterans said:


> I'm a bit lonely in the NOS camp lol. NOS saved me from the 2/64 GAS since OG card in NOS sounds more natural/analog without the NOS roll-off traits to me than the OS mode (I'm referring to 44.1 KHz NOS specifically)


Hey, different strokes for different folks. And I should qualify this by saying that I obviously love Schiit.

But yeah, I hate the way NOS mode sounds, both with the old card and the new. 🤷‍♂️

Kind of hoping they tweak the NOS filter with a future firmware update personally. I find it hard to believe that just because things are designed around their proprietary filter they can't also make NOS sound better.


----------



## theeclone

kumar402 said:


> I moved to Coax and so far it’s working fine. Anyways I’m not USB user so fingers crossed with coax.


So it's sounding like the problem is isolated to usb input?

Ok, now who's gonna try unseating the usb card for a minute and putting it back in to see if it solves their issue? That's what I accidentally did while upgrading and have no issues over usb.


----------



## tmac17

Friskyseal said:


> Okay, very interesting. I made some progress. The issue doesn't happen if the DAC is in NOS mode. The problem is that NOS mode sounds terrible, but okay. Separate issue.
> 
> Standard mode:
> 48khz >  96khz, relay clicks, seek track > sound goes distorted.
> ...


How do you turn off NOS once it's engaged? Do you have to turn the DAC off and back on again?


----------



## theveterans

theeclone said:


> Hey, different strokes for different folks. And I should qualify this by saying that I obviously love Schiit.
> 
> But yeah, I hate the way NOS mode sounds, both with the old card and the new. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> Kind of hoping they tweak the NOS filter with a future firmware update personally. I find it hard to believe that just because things are designed around their proprietary filter they can't also make NOS sound better.



NOS is not noised shaped (dithered) and is heavily dependent on ultrasonic analog filtering hence you see heavy aliasing on the output. NOS DACs on the upper end of scale optimizes their analog filtering (some use tube stage to do this) so that you won't hear unnatural sonic byproduct of running NOS. No way that I see Mike Moffat abandoning his principles of optimizing closed-loop filter oversampling for a DAC to sound exemplary with NOS. Also, NOS truly needs exceptionally designed ladder DACs to sound good while the Ti chips and the AD chips that are used in Schiit aren't even for audio applications. The Analog Devices AD1865N-K DAC chip from what many NOS designers claim is the best chip for the purpose.


----------



## erwinjaquez

tmac17 said:


> How do you turn off NOS once it's engaged? Do you have to turn the DAC off and back on again?


Just keep the button pushed for 2 seconds.


----------



## theeclone (Aug 8, 2022)

theveterans said:


> NOS is not noised shaped (dithered) and is heavily dependent on ultrasonic analog filtering hence you see heavy aliasing on the output. NOS DACs on the upper end of scale optimizes their analog filtering (some use tube stage to do this) so that you won't hear unnatural sonic byproduct of running NOS. No way that I see Mike Moffat abandoning his principles of optimizing closed-loop filter oversampling for a DAC to sound exemplary with NOS. Also, NOS truly needs exceptionally designed ladder DACs to sound good while the Ti chips and the AD chips that are used in Schiit aren't even for audio applications. The Analog Devices AD1865N-K DAC chip from what many NOS designers claim is the best chip for the purpose.


Have you heard the modi multibit or the O.G. Bifrost multibit at 192K (effectively NOS)? They sounded great to me, and I thought they were using AD chips.

My understanding of oversampling as it's applied here is that it allows the antialiasing filter to be relaxed. When I hear noise shaping I think delta sigma. Noise shaped dither on the other hand I thought was distinct from that, and I'm not sure I follow how NOS would preclude dither.


----------



## TheFrator

Received a new BF2 / 64 on Saturday and have had it on since then. I haven't experienced any of the distortion issues when switching sample rates. Main audible difference I've noticed is some extra sparkle in the treble compared to the OG BF2.


----------



## cgb3

theeclone said:


> Hey, different strokes for different folks. And I should qualify this by saying that I obviously love Schiit.
> 
> But yeah, I hate the way NOS mode sounds, both with the old card and the new. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> Kind of hoping they tweak the NOS filter with a future firmware update personally. I find it hard to believe that just because things are designed around their proprietary filter they can't also make NOS sound better.


NOS is without filter. Listen without filter, or include a filter of your choosing.


----------



## theveterans (Aug 8, 2022)

theeclone said:


> Have you heard the modi multibit or the O.G. Bifrost multibit at 192K (effectively NOS)? They sounded great to me, and they were using AD chips.
> 
> My understanding of oversampling as it's applied here is that it allows the antialiasing filter to be relaxed. When I hear noise shaping I think delta sigma. Noise shaped dither on the other hand I thought was distinct from that, and I'm not sure I follow how NOS would preclude dither.



I used to have the OG Bifrost MB and have played with 192 KHz HD tracks on it, and yes they do sound great, but the source file already has an industry standard FIR filter with TPDF dither from the 192 KHz source file, not truly a 44.1 KHz NOS optimized DAC topology

Noise shaping is applied oversampling before the actual DA conversion and the analog stage is just doing a simple I/V conversion which is then raised to line levels by op-amps. The analog filter still applies, but due to sophisticated oversampling and noise shaping techniques, the analog filter hardly plays in the effect if at all. For NOS, the noise shaping comes from the source file which is TPDF industry standard dither or some source files don't even have dither and the DAC solely 100% relies on analog filtering in that case. That's where careful analog stage designs, select DAC chips (Audio Note, Aries Cerat) or even in house DAC modules (Metrum/Sonnet Audio, Aqua Acoustic) or discrete ladders implementation (Holo Audio, Denafrips) have a large impact on the final NOS sound output

For more info see here: https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/nos-dac


----------



## theeclone

cgb3 said:


> NOS is without filter. Listen without filter, or include a filter of your choosing.


I believe NOS is exactly what it stands for, nothing more. It just means that you're not oversampling. It doesn't mean you don't need an antialiasing filter.


----------



## SolaVirtus

I got the upgrade card today. Installed the firmware with no issues. Sounded good after a half hour so I installed the card, no issue. I have the BF2 set up on my work computer, which I have limited control over so I have to use the Windows audio stack. 

Clicking through the different bit depth and sample rates for a half hour I found with different source files, the metallic scratchiness comes up on my unit only when switching between different bit depths with the same sampling frequency. like when going from 16/48 to 24/48.

I'll do some more testing on my PC where I can use WASAPI exclusive/push and bypass windows. I also still need to try an iOS source.

For what it's worth, when working properly, it's a noticeable upgrade. 

I'll fill this in the spreadsheet after some more fiddling.


----------



## theeclone

theveterans said:


> I used to have the OG Bifrost MB and have played with 192 KHz HD tracks on it, and yes they do sound great, but the source file already has an industry standard FIR filter with TPDF dither from the 192 KHz source file, not truly a 44.1 KHz NOS optimized DAC topology



Ok, but then why do those exact same 192K files sound terrible to me on BF2 NOS mode?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

We're looking into it, even though we haven't caught anything in standard testing (and all Bifrosts, and all cards, are tested on all inputs, for all typical systems, before shipping.)

If it's a glitch that's fixable, and not system-dependent, then I'm sure it's just a firmware update to take care of it.

To determine system-dependency, check with a different computer/streamer/tablet. Does the problem go away? Then it's system-dependent. Those kind of glitches can be difficult to nail down, especially if they're related to non-well-supported players outside the Roon/Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify/Apple/Amazon ecosystems.


----------



## streaml1ne

Jason Stoddard said:


> We're looking into it, even though we haven't caught anything in standard testing (and all Bifrosts, and all cards, are tested on all inputs, for all typical systems, before shipping.)
> 
> If it's a glitch that's fixable, and not system-dependent, then I'm sure it's just a firmware update to take care of it.
> 
> To determine system-dependency, check with a different computer/streamer/tablet. Does the problem go away? Then it's system-dependent. Those kind of glitches can be difficult to nail down, especially if they're related to non-well-supported players outside the Roon/Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify/Apple/Amazon ecosystems.


Tested with my laptop which is also Windows 10 with foobar2k and wasapi push. Same problem.


----------



## cgb3

theeclone said:


> I believe NOS is exactly what it stands for, nothing more. It just means that you're not oversampling. It doesn't mean you don't need an antialiasing filter.


I didn't intend to imply that one needed a filter, simply that a filter wasn't included with that setting.


----------



## HanselPA

Just got my 2/64 today, no issues so far.
My upgrade is from the original Bifrost from three years ago( never had the 2). Love it!!!!


----------



## theeclone (Aug 9, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I didn't intend to imply that one needed a filter, simply that a filter wasn't included with that setting.


I gotcha, but there's no way there's not an antialiasing filter on that setting. It would sound much worse if there wasn't.

Edit: this may technically more accurately be called a reconstruction filter, but pretty sure it sometimes gets called an antialiasing filter. It may be in the analog domain.


----------



## blackdragon87

Nice black stack of schiit you got there


----------



## WaveTheory (Aug 8, 2022)

HanselPA said:


> Just got my 2/64 today, no issues so far.
> My upgrade is from the original Bifrost from three years ago( never had the 2). Love it!!!!


----------



## theveterans

Just streamed the whole American Idiot Qobuz 192 KHz and compared it to the 44.1 KHz FLAC that I have locally. The 192 KHz sounded smoother and more laid back while the FLAC is more forward but a bit more raw on the leading edge of notes (more grit). The high rez clearly is a more relaxing experience which is somewhat closer to the Schiit default OS filter sound. The same file played back on burrito filter mode (2x OS in this case) sounded closer to the 44.1 NOS with smoother edges and slightly wider sounding though still a bit tamed compared to NOS. IMHO, the high res version is inferior sounding compared to the OS mode and NOS 44.1 KHz.

I might visit schiitr at some point in time to hear the 2/64 in its OS mode but so far the NOS 44.1 KHz is sounding very engaging with plenty of drive and forward-center imaging to me.



theeclone said:


> Ok, but then why do those exact same 192K files sound terrible to me on BF2 NOS mode?


----------



## Btarr

Another variable "thing" to consider:   

I've had no issues (MacBook Pro (Apple Music) USB-> Bifrost 2/64 SE-> Swann (chi-fi) M300 active speakers).  

BUT Then!

I had only pulled out the old card WITHOUT any FW update and inserted the new 2/64 card. THEN I did the FW update with the mini SD card to the Bifrost with new 2/64 card.  I also removed the mini SD card when I was done.  
Maybe this helps.... maybe not.


----------



## Luckyleo

I've had my 2/64 card for almost a week.  No issues at all.  I'm listening to Roon on my Mac out to the BF2/64.  Last night I used the Roon app to stream live radio.  Listened first  to a Flac 44/16 stream and then switched stations and was listening to 256 Kbs.  Kept flipping back and forth.  Heard the delay kick in and then perfect reproduction.  No distortions at all.  

Leo


----------



## Friskyseal (Aug 9, 2022)

The issue is the analog card, it's not system or program dependant. Some more testing—

To confirm that it isn't my music player, I tested the problem using shared mode. I set my Bifrost to 24/48 in Windows device settings and played a Youtube video in Chrome. It sounded fine. I then went back to the settings and changed it to 24/96, heard the relay click, and then opened up the Youtube video again. Distorted.

To confirm that it isn't my desktop PC, I pulled out my Lenovo Thinkpad (still Win 10) and plugged my Bifrost into that. Same testing, switching between 48khz and 96khz in device settings. Same result. 48khz sounds fine, 96khz is distorted.

Again, none of this occurred using the previous analog card under the exact same conditions.


----------



## erwinjaquez

Friskyseal said:


> The issue is the analog card, it's not system or program dependant. Some more testing—
> 
> To confirm that it isn't my music player, I tested the problem using shared mode. I set my Bifrost to 24/48 in Windows device settings and played a Youtube video in Chrome. It sounded fine. I then went back to the settings and changed it to 24/96, heard the relay click, and then opened up the Youtube video again. Distorted.
> 
> ...


I agree. It’s not system dependent. I always use Mac mini with Audirvāna. Never had any problem using original bifrost 2 for 2 years until now. I tested the new card using a windows pc via foobar same distortion happened from 16/44 to 24/96


----------



## theeclone

Friskyseal said:


> The issue is the analog card


There are at least 2 reports now of the issue going away when using an input other than usb with the new card. Being that even the DAC itself can be considered a complex system in its own right, I wonder if it's more about the combination of the new card and other components, such as the usb card.


----------



## Alcophone

erwinjaquez said:


> I agree. It’s not system dependent. I always use Mac mini with Audirvāna. Never had any problem using original bifrost 2 for 2 years until now. I tested the new card using a windows pc via foobar same distortion happened from 16/44 to 24/96


Can you play with the WASAPI buffer settings in foobar2000 to see whether there's a setting that fixes it? Note that to fix my problems with WASAPI event mode I had to reduce the buffer to 20 ms, not increase it as one might expect.


----------



## inmytaxi

erwinjaquez said:


> I agree. It’s not system dependent. I always use Mac mini with Audirvāna. Never had any problem using original bifrost 2 for 2 years until now. I tested the new card using a windows pc via foobar same distortion happened from 16/44 to 24/96


So, what do you do to eliminate the distortion? Reboot dac? PC? Close program and reopen?


----------



## erwinjaquez

Alcophone said:


> Can you play with the WASAPI buffer settings in foobar2000 to see whether there's a setting that fixes it? Note that to fix my problems with WASAPI event mode I had to reduce the buffer to 20 ms, not increase it as one might expect.


I just tried both increasing and decreasing. Sometimes it worked. But I couldn’t make it work all the times, some other times made the distortion even worse. 



inmytaxi said:


> So, what do you do to eliminate the distortion? Reboot dac? PC? Close program and reopen?



Actually it’s pretty simple. Just change the input selection on the bifrost and go back. That’s it. But I think that’s just a terrible solution for a 300 bucks upgrade card.


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 9, 2022)

I did the FW update using the old card only. I tested NOS mode with the new card, to insure the FW updated. No issues on a home-built Athalon 7 Win 10 computer.  Amazon unlimited mostly, although I have ~2,500 ripped CD's I use with Foobar. 6M USB input, using both phones and powered speakers.


----------



## cgb3

Friskyseal said:


> The issue is the analog card, it's not system or program dependant. Some more testing—
> 
> To confirm that it isn't my music player, I tested the problem using shared mode. I set my Bifrost to 24/48 in Windows device settings and played a Youtube video in Chrome. It sounded fine. I then went back to the settings and changed it to 24/96, heard the relay click, and then opened up the Youtube video again. Distorted.
> 
> ...


My output (win10) is set to 24 bit, 192,000 Hz. No problems.

I don't have "exclusive mode" selected, as I use Peace EQ.


----------



## cgb3

theeclone said:


> There are at least 2 reports now of the issue going away when using an input other than usb with the new card. Being that even the DAC itself can be considered a complex system in its own right, I wonder if it's more about the combination of the new card and other components, such as the usb card.


I use USB with no issues.


----------



## theeclone

cgb3 said:


> I use USB with no issues.


So do I.


----------



## Orange5o (Aug 10, 2022)

Mine does it for 4-5 seconds when I change bitrate, mirroring my Gungnir vco experience. From PC and raspberry pi, using wireworld and audioquest usb cords. Will try to up a small video.

Edit: easier just to link the Gungnir video as it sounds the same as this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc4rko2c4bcveql/Snapchat-2060312008.mp4?dl=0


----------



## erwinjaquez

Hi. I kept trying different things. Today I’ve been playing with Roon hoping a change in software would do the trick. But unfortunately the distortion happened the same way as it did with Audirvāna on Mac and foobar on pc.


----------



## cgb3

Friskyseal said:


> Yup, I just tested it too. I am typically listening to 48khz out of Foobar2000 exclusive mode. I have a few 24bit/96khz files, so I tried playing one of those. I hear the unit click to indicate the sample rate change (as was normal before), and then the sound gets tizzy and distorted. It doesn't sound right. When I switch back to 48khz, it seems to fix itself (?)* Hmph, that's disappointing.
> 
> *(?) because it's actually hard to tell if it goes back to how it should. It's hard to tell.
> Edit: I feel like it doesn't sound correct again until I cycle power off/on via the rear switch.


I'm curious. I've never heard a "clicking" sound (that I've noticed) when switching  between sampling rates with the Bifrost. Not the original card, or the new 64 card.

Can you point me to some music that will exhibit this trait?


----------



## TheTechQ

cgb3 said:


> I'm curious. I've never heard a "clicking" sound (that I've noticed) when switching  between sampling rates with the Bifrost. Not the original card, or the new 64 card.
> 
> Can you point me to some music that will exhibit this trait?


Make sure your audio device is in exclusive mode. If it is not, your OS might be resampling it so the Bifrost is staying at the same sample rate.


----------



## Darae (Aug 10, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I'm curious. I've never heard a "clicking" sound (that I've noticed) when switching  between sampling rates with the Bifrost. Not the original card, or the new 64 card.
> 
> Can you point me to some music that will exhibit this trait?



This is likely because you have your Win output set to 24 bit, 192,000 Hz, and you don't use Exclusive (which bypasses Win settings).

This is also (potentially) why you're not having issues, because you're not letting the Bifrost resample. If you set Win to 24/44.1 or 24/48 depending on your use case, you will hear the Bifrost doing its thing and relay clicking between sample rates when it needs to. I used to run those (24/192) settings until someone smacked me for it.


----------



## cgb3

Reputator said:


> IMO it's worth spending even just $30-40 for a higher quality USB cable, even if you don't believe it makes a sonic difference, at least then you can trust the signal coming through and you know it will last a long time. Considering the DAC itself is $700-800, it's really not a costly investment.


This works for me with the Bifrost for the past several years. I had trouble with USB, this cable solved it.

If you don't need 2M, go shorter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MZ2JRK7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## Alcophone (Aug 10, 2022)

Darae said:


> This is likely because you have your Win output set to 24 bit, 192,000 Hz, and you don't use Exclusive (which bypasses Win settings).


While true (if configured) for Qobuz, Tidal, foobar2000 and some other apps, Amazon Music HD even in exclusive mode will just keep the sample rate configured on the Windows level, rather than adjust it to the current track's. Just an FYI for those who want to test exclusive mode and don't get clicks despite switching between tracks with different sample rates, the app also has to use it accordingly.


----------



## cgb3

tmac17 said:


> Disappointed to see many of you guys experiencing problems with the upgraded Bitfrost. Seems more than just a few bad units. I'm not very familiar with many other forums so not sure how wide spread this is but I'm going to assume it's not good. Hard to believe Schiit would put something out without running it through a gauntlet of test. But...guess I'm just naive.  I don't doubt it sounds wonderful...but no one should have to worry about how they use it or what bit rate a track is...or cycle through everything or stress about anything. Wither you paid for the upgrade or buying new for $829...it should be good to go.





Hotdoggn said:


> I have a BF2 that I upgraded with the firmware and analog card I received Monday. I have had it on since I swapped out the card. I was just bouncing around playing different music files using Musicbee with WASAPI exclusive enabled. Jumped between files that were 44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96 khz. The BF2 clicked in between every single file, and just played the recording without any digital artifacts or distortion. Just wanted to throw in my experience, since I find that the upgraded analog card makes the BF2 much more enjoyable and I hope that other people aren't totally dissuaded from upgrading. I just hope that this holds true and I don't run into any issues later on!


I suggest you select your Win "control panel" (type in "control panel) in the search location on the bottom right side of your window, then "sound". My Bifrost out is labeled speakers "Schiit Bifrost 2, Unison USB"

Select that device (the Unison USB) by clicking on the icon, select "properties".  Select "advanced". Under "default format, select "24 bit, 192,000HZ (Studio Quality).

Click "OK" at the bottom of the dialog box. Find yourself out of the remaining boxes.


----------



## Alcophone (Aug 10, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I suggest you select your Win "control panel" (type in "control panel) in the search location on the bottom right side of your window, then "sound". My Bifrost out is labeled speakers "Schiit Bifrost 2, Unison USB"
> 
> Select that device (the Unison USB) by clicking on the icon, select "properties".  Select "advanced". Under "default format, select "24 bit, 192,000HZ (Studio Quality).
> 
> Click "OK" at the bottom of the dialog box. Find yourself out of the remaining boxes.


This is how you lose most of the benefits of Schiit's filter (for anything that doesn't use exclusive mode and overrides that sample rate).
For music, 24/44.1 kHz should be the default setting, for videos 24/48 kHz might be more suitable. 16 bits can be transferred as 24 bits without any losses, 44.1 kHz transferred as 192 kHz means Windows does (most of) the upsampling, not the DAC.

[Edit] Exception: Amazon Music HD, which won't even bother with hi-res unless the audio device is set to a sample rate equal to or higher than a given track's sample rate. So if you don't want to do the dirty work for Amazon, always using 192 might be a good compromise, or maybe 96 kHz if most of what you listen to uses that or less.


----------



## cgb3

WaveTheory said:


> I just stepped through a sequence playing a full track each at 16/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 (a conversion from a DSD64), and 24/192. I used exclusive mode on Audirvana 3.5 and USB connection on a Windows 10 PC. I heard the clicking relays each time. I experienced no issues.
> 
> I agree that the number of reports is a bit concerning. I took the liberty of creating an editable Google spreadsheet to try to gather [what I think is] useful information for Schiit. Please, ALL - whether your BF2/64 is working well or not - take a moment to fill out the spreadsheet. It should only take a moment. You will need to look up your software music player version/build number and your device OS build number. There are color coded instructions for working or not working. Hopefully this will compile enough info on what works and what doesn't work in one spot that Schiit, among others, can figure out what's going on.
> 
> Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hsnAilq2EunjA4RXMyhJI7mkbPirbYGFN6v3L460UQU/edit?usp=sharing


I don't hear clicking. Is it because I've set an output value (24bit/192Hz) (Bifrost maximum) as a minimum?


----------



## Alcophone (Aug 10, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I don't hear clicking. Is it because I've set an output value (24bit/192Hz) (Bifrost maximum) as a minimum?


You need to use an app that 1) is configured to use exclusive mode and 2) uses that to change the sample rate of the audio device to whatever the current track uses (note that you cannot verify this in the Windows settings since that only shows the global default, not whatever an app in exclusive mode is currently using).
Only then, and only when switching between tracks with different sample rates, would clicks between track changes be expected.


----------



## tmac17 (Aug 10, 2022)

Been listening to music with the BF 2/64 since Monday. I haven't had any issues as of yet. Pretty straight fwd set up. New BF 2/64(bought whole unit new)---Freya+ ---- Node N130--- going into Active speakers.
Supra Excalibur USB. Running everything balanced(excpet the Node of course). Been just using the bluos app for Qobuz and Tidel app for connect. I get the clicking between tracks.
I'm assuming the issue that a lot of you guys are experiencing should be clear and evident..so I assume as of tonight I'm in good shape. 🤷
I don't even notice much or any difference when I mess with NOS mode...which is odd.


----------



## Alcophone

tmac17 said:


> Been listening to music with the BF 2/64 since Monday. I haven't had any issues as of yet. Pretty straight fwd set up. New BF 2/64(bought whole unit new)---Freya+ ---- Node N130--- going into Active speakers.
> Supra Excalibur USB. Running everything balanced. Been just using the bluos app for Qubuz and Tidel app for connect. I get the clicking between tracks.


Just to clarify, you're using the latest Bluesound Node and feeding the Bifrost 2 via its USB out? Nice to hear that that's working, actually.


----------



## cgb3

Alcophone said:


> This is how you lose most of the benefits of Schiit's filter (for anything that doesn't use exclusive mode and overrides that sample rate).
> For music, 24/44.1 kHz should be the default setting, for videos 24/48 kHz might be more suitable. 16 bits can be transferred as 24 bits without any losses, 44.1 kHz transferred as 192 kHz means Windows does (most of) the upsampling, not the DAC.
> 
> [Edit] Exception: Amazon Music HD, which won't even bother with hi-res unless the audio device is set to a sample rate equal to or higher than a given track's sample rate. So if you don't want to do the dirty work for Amazon, always using 192 might be a good compromise, or maybe 96 kHz if most of what you listen to uses that or less.


Interesting. I'm not buying unless you can present a compelling argument.

Why would giving a device (the Bifrost 2 in this case), it's maximum stream  be a bad thing?


----------



## cgb3

Alcophone said:


> You need to use an app that 1) is configured to use exclusive mode and 2) uses that to change the sample rate of the audio device to whatever the current track uses (note that you cannot verify this in the Windows settings since that only shows the global default, not whatever an app in exclusive mode is currently using).
> Only then, and only when switching between tracks with different sample rates, would clicks between track changes be expected.


Why would one want to use "exclusive mode", with it's apparent drawbacks?


----------



## ckhirnigs113 (Aug 10, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Interesting. I'm not buying unless you can present a compelling argument.
> 
> Why would giving a device (the Bifrost 2 in this case), it's maximum stream  be a bad thing?


You want to play each track at its native sapling rate and bit depth. It’s not a good idea to let Windows convert everything to 24bit/192Hz.


----------



## tmac17

Alcophone said:


> Just to clarify, you're using the latest Bluesound Node and feeding the Bifrost 2 via its USB out? Nice to hear that that's working, actually.


Yes. I have been using the USB from the N130 since the firmware update. Has there been many here having issues with the N130s USB? Haven't really come across many Node users in these post.


----------



## cgb3

Btarr said:


> How are folks feeding their preamps or active speakers?  single ended or Balanced.   SE for me and no issue.  Could this be where the issue lives?


Both single ended (to Lyr 2) as a preamp, and balanced to Jot 2. No issues.


----------



## cgb3

Orange5o said:


> Anyone using coax? Wondering if all the issues so far are via usb...


USB here, no issues.


----------



## Alcophone

cgb3 said:


> Interesting. I'm not buying unless you can present a compelling argument.
> 
> Why would giving a device (the Bifrost 2 in this case), it's maximum stream  be a bad thing?


If you give it a 44.1 kHz file as is (and don't use NOS mode), the DAC will upsample it to its highest internal sample rate (352.8 kHz for multiples of 44.1 kHz or 384 kHz for multiples of 48 kHz) using its own filter, i.e. Schiit's Megacomboburrito filter, i.e. 87.5% of the samples used will come from the filter you paid good money for and 12.5% come from the original file (since it's a closed form filter).

If you feed it 192 kHz unconditionally, Windows will compute 100% of the samples itself using whatever basic upsampling algorithm it has (presumably not closed form, especially when converting 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 kHz to 192 kHz), and Schiit's filter can only double that.

It's like you letting McDonald's season raw meat before giving it to a high end restaurant to cook. There's only so much they can do at that point.


----------



## cgb3

Jason Stoddard said:


> We're looking into it, even though we haven't caught anything in standard testing (and all Bifrosts, and all cards, are tested on all inputs, for all typical systems, before shipping.)
> 
> If it's a glitch that's fixable, and not system-dependent, then I'm sure it's just a firmware update to take care of it.
> 
> To determine system-dependency, check with a different computer/streamer/tablet. Does the problem go away? Then it's system-dependent. Those kind of glitches can be difficult to nail down, especially if they're related to non-well-supported players outside the Roon/Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify/Apple/Amazon ecosystems.


Put a tech in an airplane seat (or car seat closer to home), and go to a complainant.

Can you think of a better QC than a Schiit employee showing up at your door?

There's a reason (obviously) theses faults are happening to some but not all.


----------



## cgb3

Alcophone said:


> If you give it a 44.1 kHz file as is (and don't use NOS mode), the DAC will upsample it to its highest internal sample rate (352.8 kHz for multiples of 44.1 kHz or 384 kHz for multiples of 48 kHz) using its own filter, i.e. Schiit's Megacomboburrito filter, i.e. 87.5% of the samples used will come from the filter you paid good money for and 12.5% come from the original file (since it's a closed form filter).
> 
> If you feed it 192 kHz unconditionally, Windows will compute 100% of the samples itself using whatever basic upsampling algorithm it has (presumably not closed form, especially when converting 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 kHz to 192 kHz), and Schiit's filter can only double that.
> 
> It's like you letting McDonald's season raw meat before giving it to a high end restaurant to cook. There's only so much they can do at that point.


Thanks, for nothing. Gave your theory a try. Under the Control panel/ Sound, then the selection for my Bifrost 2 unison USB output, I selected the device exclusive option twice.

Rebooted. Amazon music reported my devices capability as 24bit/48kHz, when the stream was available at 24bit/192Hz.

I'm back to my original settings. Sounds great, and my analytics confirm what I think I'm paying for.


----------



## Alcophone

cgb3 said:


> Thanks, for nothing. Gave your theory a try. Under the Control panel/ Sound, then the selection for my Bifrost 2 unison USB output, I selected the device exclusive option twice.
> 
> Rebooted. Amazon music reported my devices capability as 24bit/48kHz, when the stream was available at 24bit/192Hz.
> 
> I'm back to my original settings. Sounds great, and my analytics confirm what I think I'm paying for.


Hence this:


Alcophone said:


> [Edit] Exception: Amazon Music HD, which won't even bother with hi-res unless the audio device is set to a sample rate equal to or higher than a given track's sample rate. So if you don't want to do the dirty work for Amazon, always using 192 might be a good compromise, or maybe 96 kHz if most of what you listen to uses that or less.


Didn't know you're using Amazon Music HD until now. It's... special. The only consistently bitperfect way of using it that I'm aware of is through a Bluesound Node type streamer. Which can't be remote controlled from the Amazon app the way Spotify or Tidal would allow, so you'd have to use the BluOS app, which is... suboptimal.

I suspect Amazon does this intentionally to avoid clicks or DACs skipping the beginning of tracks as they adjust to a sample rate change. It's a compromise I don't like.

But indeed, if a high end restaurant cooks meat you had seasoned by McDonald's, it's still the quality meat you bought, professionally prepared, so it's pretty close to what it could have been. And maybe you just prefer McDonald's seasoning.


----------



## cgb3

Alcophone said:


> Hence this:
> 
> Didn't know you're using Amazon Music HD until now. It's... special. The only consistently bitperfect way of using it that I'm aware of is through a Bluesound Node type streamer. Which can't be remote controlled from the Amazon app the way Spotify or Tidal would allow, so you'd have to use the BluOS app, which is... suboptimal.
> 
> ...


I owe you an apology. I changed my sound defaults to my output (Bifrost 2) capabilities 24/192, but selected device exclusivity.

I haven't listened enough to determine a preference (my first impression is very good), but at least the software reporting satisfies my AR side.

Thanks.


----------



## Alcophone (Aug 10, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I owe you an apology. I changed my sound defaults to my output (Bifrost 2) capabilities 24/192, but selected device exclusivity.
> 
> I haven't listened enough to determine a preference (my first impression is very good), but at least the software reporting satisfies my AR side.
> 
> Thanks.


Yeah, with the DAC set to 24/192, using exclusive mode in the Amazon app is probably better than not, but based on my testing without exclusive mode it largely produces the same bits so long as the volume is at 100% in the app and in Windows. If I remember correctly, the few times where the bits differed without exclusive mode were when the track's volume approached the limit, probably to leave some headroom for mixing other app's audio in, which it doesn't need to do in exclusive mode. So the difference should be modest with Amazon, while with Qobuz, Tidal, etc. it bypasses Windows's potential sample rate conversion.

As a consequence you might prefer to leave it off since then you won't run into audio issues with other apps while the Amazon app is running (like YouTube videos not loading or producing error messages until you quit the Amazon app and reload).
But it would be sufficient to leave exclusive mode off in the Amazon app, turning it off in the Windows settings has no consequence unless an app tries to use it, which would produce an error message.


----------



## cgb3

cgb3 said:


> I owe you an apology. I changed my sound defaults to my output (Bifrost 2) capabilities 24/192, but selected device exclusivity.
> 
> I haven't listened enough to determine a preference (my first impression is very good), but at least the software reporting satisfies my AR side.
> 
> Thanks.


There's a setting in Amazon Music to allow exclusivity.

I'm really liking what I'm hearing. This awakening won't go unrewarded.


----------



## theveterans

tmac17 said:


> Been listening to music with the BF 2/64 since Monday. I haven't had any issues as of yet. Pretty straight fwd set up. New BF 2/64(bought whole unit new)---Freya+ ---- Node N130--- going into Active speakers.
> Supra Excalibur USB. Running everything balanced(excpet the Node of course). Been just using the bluos app for Qobuz and Tidel app for connect. I get the clicking between tracks.
> I'm assuming the issue that a lot of you guys are experiencing should be clear and evident..so I assume as of tonight I'm in good shape. 🤷
> _I don't even notice much or any difference when I mess with NOS mode...which is odd._



It shouldn't be odd IMO though that's a first with the new card. Could be that NOS synergizes really well with your system like it does on mine with the old card.


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 11, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> There's a setting in Amazon Music to allow exclusivity.
> 
> I'm really liking what I'm hearing. This awakening won't go unrewarded.


Remove please


----------



## tmac17

theveterans said:


> It shouldn't be odd IMO though that's a first with the new card. Could be that NOS synergizes really well with your system like it does on mine with the old card.


Possibly. I know the system it's in is not the most revealing in the world. Curious if I'll hear a difference once my main system is complete and I move the BF2 in there. I know they said hold the button in for 2 sec to switch back but I ended up just powering it off / on real quick to reset it  because I just didn't hear the differences and had no idea what it was on lol. Either way. I didn't buy for NOS. I wanted a Schiit dac. Wanted truly balanced and didn't have room for a Gungnir. I'm very content.


----------



## WaveTheory

My first impressions are up. Also included an installation guide for any readers wondering how difficult it is (it's not) or to entertain the rest of you (a pretty funny moment happens). Enjoy!


----------



## BShaw (Aug 11, 2022)

Hello to everyone here, this is my first post, though I've been a reader of the Schiit Happened thread off and on for a time. I've been a happy Schiit owner of several of their components including Asgard3, Modius, Jot2, Saga, Aegir, and of course, BF2. I'm chiming in because I wanted to give a brief commentary on my experience with the new card and firmware update.
I was really surprised to get the card so quickly, thinking it was going to take at least another month, but I received mine about a week ago, and swapped it without hesitation (or a single syllable of instruction, ahem). I've now got at least 10 hours on it, and I'm interested to know if others are hearing anything like I am. No hangups here by the way.
First off, I have two sources into the BF, a Zen Stream connected via Curious Cable USB, and my Audiolab CD player connected via Requisite copper/silver coax, custom terminated (by me) with KLEI Silver Harmony connectors. It runs into a modded Willsenton R8, and out to a pair of Jeff Bagby designed Auricles, with RAAL 70/20xr tweets, Satori 6.5s, and maxed out xovers. From the balanced side, it runs to my Jotunheim2 and Senn 650s, Sundaras, and Grado 325x.
For starters, I absolutely loved the flavor and performance of the BF2, with it's muscular, musical presentation. Where I wondered it might be lacking was in revealing treble details to my 58 year old carpenter's ears - I felt like I was always leaning in to try to drag out brush work on the cymbals, and softer details like that. I knew it was only a matter of time before Mike either updated the board, or Schiit released a new DAC altogether (there were rumors!). Besides the treble thing though, the BF2 just sounded so damned good it wasn't the end of the world, and although I considered MHDT, Soekris, Denafrips Pontus, and Musician DACs, I really didn't want to go to all the trouble of looking elsewhere.
Sorry for all the gab. Now onto my impressions of the BF2/64.
Immediately I heard the increase in the upper end and my butt was wagging in my seat to be able to sit back and hear so much more detail, wow! This is really an impressive change and exactly what I'd hoped for, all those lovely tinkly bits now crossing the room and reaching my ears!
As I've continued to listen though, there are some tradeoffs that I'm not so sure I'm delighted about: The bass is leaner, no doubt about it. Not a huge deal, but I miss that meatiness of the former version, which sounded organic and full, emotional if that's not too un-audiophile an adjective. I feel that this leaner presentation carries up into the mids as well, with vocals being less weighty, as well as horns and instruments like clarinets (and er, duduk). In a word, the new version is notably brighter and maybe even slightly glaring at times.
I'm surprised to be in a position to actually be wondering if I'm going to stick it out with the update, or pack it in and wait a bit longer to see if Mike rolls something else out. There's no free lunch in audio as I've heard a million times, but I was hoping the new version would be the old BF2 PLUS treble. To my ears though, there's been a tradeoff.
I'm blaming the TI chips even though I'm not qualified to make that judgment. Yeah now we have four chips and definitely more resolution, but the sound of those chips just doesn't compare to the ADs that Mike and Jason were so enamored of. In my imagination, the process went something like: Can't get preferred AD chips - try next best thing - NBT not so amazing - well then let's at least throw more of them in there and call it an upgrade!  Basically, it seems like there never would have been an "upgrade" if Schiit wasn't forced to come up with a solution for their lack of AD chips.
Apologies for the long post, but any thoughts on these ramblings?


----------



## Mike-WI

What do people see on Roon when using the Bifrost 2/64 in NOS mode?

Eg for Qobuz source through Jotunheim MB DAC/Amp on 24/44.1...


----------



## theveterans

Mike-WI said:


> What do people see on Roon when using the Bifrost 2/64 in NOS mode?
> 
> Eg for Qobuz source through Jotunheim MB DAC/Amp on 24/44.1...



FIrst you must get Lossless on the signal path. I don't use my PC directly to BF2 but use a WiFi Streamer like my SP2000 streaming bitperfect 16 bits 44.1 KHz to BF2 NOS


----------



## j0val

BShaw said:


> Hello to everyone here, this is my first post, though I've been a reader of the Schiit Happened thread off and on for a time. I've been a happy Schiit owner of several of their components including Asgard3, Modius, Jot2, Saga, Aegir, and of course, BF2. I'm chiming in because I wanted to give a brief commentary on my experience with the new card and firmware update.
> I was really surprised to get the card so quickly, thinking it was going to take at least another month, but I received mine about a week ago, and swapped it without hesitation (or a single syllable of instruction, ahem). I've now got at least 10 hours on it, and I'm interested to know if others are hearing anything like I am. No hangups here by the way.
> First off, I have two sources into the BF, a Zen Stream connected via Curious Cable USB, and my Audiolab CD player connected via Requisite copper/silver coax, custom terminated (by me) with KLEI Silver Harmony connectors. It runs into a modded Willsenton R8, and out to a pair of Jeff Bagby designed Auricles, with RAAL 70/20xr tweets, Satori 6.5s, and maxed out xovers. From the balanced side, it runs to my Jotunheim2 and Senn 650s, Sundaras, and Grado 325x.
> For starters, I absolutely loved the flavor and performance of the BF2, with it's muscular, musical presentation. Where I wondered it might be lacking was in revealing treble details to my 58 year old carpenter's ears - I felt like I was always leaning in to try to drag out brush work on the cymbals, and softer details like that. I knew it was only a matter of time before Mike either updated the board, or Schiit released a new DAC altogether (there were rumors!). Besides the treble thing though, the BF2 just sounded so damned good it wasn't the end of the world, and although I considered MHDT, Soekris, Denafrips Pontus, and Musician DACs, I really didn't want to go to all the trouble of looking elsewhere.
> ...



I also wondered if this was truly an “upgrade”. I guess it is if you consider it’s now hardware balanced. However, it does seem like more of a solution since the AD chips are scarce. I do enjoy the new card, but I think we should all consider more of a “different flavor”. Would be awesome if there was a easy way to swap between the cards.


----------



## Friskyseal

Our auditory memories are notoriously bad. I did swap back in the old card because I was curious and had a little bit of "FOMO" in regards to the old midrange. What I found was that it was an across-the-board downgrade. The midrange on the new card is just as good—rich, full. organic, etc., it just doesn't stand out as much because the bass and treble are brought more in line with it. The only downside I would say comparitively is if you are looking for a more relaxed listen. The new card defintely shoves more details in your face.

Also, if burn-in is a thing, consider that you are comparing a card with potentially 100s of hours on it against a brand-new one.


----------



## BShaw

Friskyseal said:


> Our auditory memories are notoriously bad. I did swap back in the old card because I was curious and had a little bit of "FOMO" in regards to the old midrange. What I found was that it was an across-the-board downgrade. The midrange on the new card is just as good—rich, full. organic, etc., it just doesn't stand out as much because the bass and treble are brought more in line with it. The only downside I would say comparitively is if you are looking for a more relaxed listen. The new card defintely shoves more details in your face.
> 
> Also, if burn-in is a thing, consider that you are comparing a card with potentially 100s of hours on it against a brand-new one.


It's good to hear a more positive view Frisky, buuuut, is it possible that in the time you took to swap things out and reboot, you also might be prone to the auditory memory problem? 
I'm hoping you are right though. Although I don't trust my auditory recall full on, there are things that make sense to me, like the visceral reaction to brightness that seems a bit grating which I never had in hundreds of hours of listening to the BF2, or scrambling around readjusting my sub because I can't seem to fill the gap I'm hearing in the bass. It's a bit like pitch recognition if you're a musician, where we may not all have perfect pitch, but we still know when a string on the guitar has strayed too far off and makes us scrunch up our shoulders a bit!
Still, not disagreeing one bit with what you're hearing, and I do believe in burn in for sure, and hope things will settle down.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Regarding Bifrost 2/64 and the sample rate glitches noted in some systems: we have new firmware to address it.

https://www.schiit.com/firmware

If you purchased a Bifrost 2/64 or Bifrost 2/64 upgrade and need an SDcard with the firmware on it, let us know and we'll get it out to you.


----------



## theveterans

Jason Stoddard said:


> Regarding Bifrost 2/64 and the sample rate glitches noted in some systems: we have new firmware to address it.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/firmware
> 
> If you purchased a Bifrost 2/64 or Bifrost 2/64 upgrade and need an SDcard with the firmware on it, let us know and we'll get it out to you.



Insanely quick I gotta tell ya! 😃


----------



## Btarr

Jason Stoddard said:


> Regarding Bifrost 2/64 and the sample rate glitches noted in some systems: we have new firmware to address it.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/firmware
> 
> If you purchased a Bifrost 2/64 or Bifrost 2/64 upgrade and need an SDcard with the firmware on it, let us know and we'll get it out to you.


If I'm Not having any issues with 2/64 upgrade, should I just leave well enough alone and NOT install the latest FW ( Bifrost 2 C0094, D0109)?


----------



## Friskyseal

I installed the new firmware on my Bifrost 2 and the problem is fixed. I can switch between 48khz and 96khz without issue. Well done, Schiit.


----------



## Orange5o

Jason Stoddard said:


> Regarding Bifrost 2/64 and the sample rate glitches noted in some systems: we have new firmware to address it.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/firmware
> 
> If you purchased a Bifrost 2/64 or Bifrost 2/64 upgrade and need an SDcard with the firmware on it, let us know and we'll get it out to you.


Thank you! Anything you can allude to as to what the issue was?


----------



## erwinjaquez

Jason Stoddard said:


> Regarding Bifrost 2/64 and the sample rate glitches noted in some systems: we have new firmware to address it.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/firmware
> 
> If you purchased a Bifrost 2/64 or Bifrost 2/64 upgrade and need an SDcard with the firmware on it, let us know and we'll get it out to you.


I can happily report the new firmware did indeed corrected the distortions when changing from 16/44 to 24/96. I was so frustrated that I was only listening to cds from an audiolab 6000 transport just to enjoy the new sound.

Thanks! 😊


----------



## mintshows

Orange5o said:


> Thank you! Anything you can allude to as to what the issue was?


They reported that this code was found inserted by a topping engineer


> if(sampleRate.isChanged() && sampleRate.equals(96000)) {
> causeDistortion();
> }


----------



## theeclone

mintshows said:


> They reported that this code was found inserted by a topping engineer


Also 


```
if (resampler.mode == NOS) {
    soundLikeAss();
}
```


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Btarr said:


> If I'm Not having any issues with 2/64 upgrade, should I just leave well enough alone and NOT install the latest FW ( Bifrost 2 C0094, D0109)?



Either/or. It can't hurt to have the latest firmware, though.



Orange5o said:


> Thank you! Anything you can allude to as to what the issue was?



I'm actually not sure. Dave noticed a glitch at 192K with some players (oddly enough, not really much reported at 192). That glitch caused the rate to change to 24K/12K, which of course ain't great. He was complaining about eye diagrams and such, which leads me to believe it was a timing issue on the DAC8812, but not the original AD5781.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

theeclone said:


> Also
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



Mike must have put that one in!


----------



## theeclone (Aug 11, 2022)

Jason Stoddard said:


> Mike must have put that one in!


Haha, I love you guys.

I think the 2/64 is a home run and knew you'd have a quick fix for the issue, which I fortunately never had.

There was a discussion earlier in this thread as to whether there is a reconstruction/smoothing filter applied when in NOS mode. Doesn't seem too trade-secrety, so I wonder if you can settle our curiosity?


----------



## erwinjaquez

Mike-WI said:


> What do people see on Roon when using the Bifrost 2/64 in NOS mode?
> 
> Eg for Qobuz source through Jotunheim MB DAC/Amp on 24/44.1...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

theeclone said:


> Haha, I love you guys.
> 
> I think the 2/64 is a home run and knew you'd have a quick fix for the issue, which I fortunately never had.
> 
> There was a discussion earlier in this thread as to whether there is a reconstruction/smoothing filter applied when in NOS mode. Doesn't seem too trade-secrety, so I wonder if you can settle our curiosity?


Argh, I should run some APx tests on the NOS. Short answer: NOS is NOS. Stairstep heaven. Please use the upsampler of your choice, or enjoy real NOS, no interpolation, no reconstruction, no brickwall analog filter.


----------



## theeclone

Jason Stoddard said:


> Argh, I should run some APx tests on the NOS. Short answer: NOS is NOS. Stairstep heaven. Please use the upsampler of your choice, or enjoy real NOS, no interpolation, no reconstruction, no brickwall analog filter.


Oof, gotcha. That settles that. I would guess the ultrasonics are behind my dislike of NOS mode. Wonder if they're getting folded down into the band of interest on my system.

Anyway, thank you sir!


----------



## theveterans

Jason Stoddard said:


> Argh, I should run some APx tests on the NOS. Short answer: NOS is NOS. Stairstep heaven. Please use the upsampler of your choice, or enjoy real NOS, no interpolation, no reconstruction, no brickwall analog filter.



I’m loving NOS on my system 😃


----------



## inmytaxi

Jason Stoddard said:


> Argh, I should run some APx tests on the NOS. Short answer: NOS is NOS. Stairstep heaven. Please use the upsampler of your choice, or enjoy real NOS, no interpolation, no reconstruction, no brickwall analog filter.


Many of us appreciate the time you and many others at Schiit take to address the kind of quirky questions, wishes, etc we always have.


----------



## SolaVirtus

Happy to report my 2/64 card issue fixed with an easy flash of the new firmware, as many are saying. Appreciate the speed and responsiveness from Schiit!


----------



## Jigetz

Thank you @Jason Stoddard and Schiit team for the fix. I updated the firmware as well this morning and haven't had any issues with sample rate since! Really enjoying the new card.


----------



## WaveTheory

Jason Stoddard said:


> Mike must have put that one in!



Are you uphill from Mike? You must be given the direction Schiit rolls...


----------



## twigfarm

BShaw said:


> Hello to everyone here, this is my first post, though I've been a reader of the Schiit Happened thread off and on for a time. I've been a happy Schiit owner of several of their components including Asgard3, Modius, Jot2, Saga, Aegir, and of course, BF2. I'm chiming in because I wanted to give a brief commentary on my experience with the new card and firmware update.
> I was really surprised to get the card so quickly, thinking it was going to take at least another month, but I received mine about a week ago, and swapped it without hesitation (or a single syllable of instruction, ahem). I've now got at least 10 hours on it, and I'm interested to know if others are hearing anything like I am. No hangups here by the way.
> First off, I have two sources into the BF, a Zen Stream connected via Curious Cable USB, and my Audiolab CD player connected via Requisite copper/silver coax, custom terminated (by me) with KLEI Silver Harmony connectors. It runs into a modded Willsenton R8, and out to a pair of Jeff Bagby designed Auricles, with RAAL 70/20xr tweets, Satori 6.5s, and maxed out xovers. From the balanced side, it runs to my Jotunheim2 and Senn 650s, Sundaras, and Grado 325x.
> For starters, I absolutely loved the flavor and performance of the BF2, with it's muscular, musical presentation. Where I wondered it might be lacking was in revealing treble details to my 58 year old carpenter's ears - I felt like I was always leaning in to try to drag out brush work on the cymbals, and softer details like that. I knew it was only a matter of time before Mike either updated the board, or Schiit released a new DAC altogether (there were rumors!). Besides the treble thing though, the BF2 just sounded so damned good it wasn't the end of the world, and although I considered MHDT, Soekris, Denafrips Pontus, and Musician DACs, I really didn't want to go to all the trouble of looking elsewhere.
> ...


Too bad you're not using speakers but I'd still like to know if your impressions of the new board change after a week or so of use (and do keep it on).

Thanks!


----------



## BShaw (Aug 11, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> Too bad you're not using speakers but I'd still like to know if your impressions of the new board change after a week or so of use (and do keep it on).
> 
> Thanks!


Actually most of my listening is through my speakers, which I called out in the post, and I really love them, a true labor of audiophool down-the-rabbit-hole love I built a year ago.
I took the day off today, and put another 8 hours on the new board. 7 or so earlier, then left and came back.  If things keep going the way they have been today, I may have to put my tail between my legs and retract some of what I said, in degree at least. The glare seems to have receded, but most of all what I'm hearing now is the DETAIL and the timbre, which is all of what the BF2 had. It seems to be settling in. Listening to Anouar Brahem right now and man it sounds crushing. Of course there's neural burn-in too.......
I don't care what people say about "aural memory", mostly at this point (while still probably more or less true) it's just another internet trope barfed around so we sound smart. I'll bet there are a lot of people around here who may or may not hear like a 15 year old, but LISTEN skillfully.
Oh, and as you suggest, I have always left my BF on, 24/7, unless I'm working under the hood!


----------



## Orange5o

BShaw said:


> Actually most of my listening is through my speakers, which I called out in the post, and I really love them, a true labor of audiophool down-the-rabbit-hole love I built a year ago.
> I took the day off today, and put another 8 hours on the new board. 7 or so earlier, then left and came back.  If things keep going the way they have been today, I may have to put my tail between my legs and retract some of what I said, in degree at least. The glare seems to have receded, but most of all what I'm hearing now is the DETAIL and the timbre, which is all of what the BF2 had. It seems to be settling in. Listening to Anouar Brahem right now and man it sounds crushing. Of course there's neural burn-in too.......
> I don't care what people say about "aural memory", mostly at this point (while still probably more or less true) it's just another internet trope barfed around so we sound smart. I'll bet there are a lot of people around here who may or may not hear like a 15 year old, but LISTEN skillfully.
> Oh, and as you suggest, I have always left my BF on, 24/7, unless I'm working under the hood!


Love Brahem, Blue Maqams is outstanding


----------



## tmac17

What size microsd card is recommended for Schiits firmware update? I'm going to have to buy one new.


----------



## theeclone

tmac17 said:


> What size microsd card is recommended for Schiits firmware update? I'm going to have to buy one new.


I believe you want at least 8GB


----------



## Alcophone

theeclone said:


> I believe you want at least 8GB


4 GB worked for me.


----------



## Ripper2860

Used a 32GB.  The trick is to format using FAT32 as specified.


----------



## theeclone

Alcophone said:


> 4 GB worked for me.


Cool, I just know 2GB didn't work for me, and couldn't remember the minimum actually needed. Thanks!


----------



## tmac17

Ripper2860 said:


> Used a 32GB.  The trick is to format using FAT32 as specified.


Is that easier to do with a 32gb card?


----------



## theeclone

tmac17 said:


> Is that easier to do with a 32gb card?


Not really. I think it's just that woth a 2GB card, the 32K cluster size doesn't work so well. 4GB and up should be good.


----------



## GoldenOne

Jason Stoddard said:


> Argh, I should run some APx tests on the NOS. Short answer: NOS is NOS. Stairstep heaven. Please use the upsampler of your choice, or enjoy real NOS, no interpolation, no reconstruction, no brickwall analog filter.


Really cool to see a true NOS DAC at this pricepoint!
(There are some others like the Ares 2 and Musician Pegasus that advertise NOS but don't actually do NOS, though they're good sounding DACs.)

Thank you for constantly putting out unique and exciting products. I always get excited when I see a new update from you guys!

Now I need to see about getting a BF2!


----------



## theveterans

GoldenOne said:


> Really cool to see a true NOS DAC at this pricepoint!
> (There are some others like the Ares 2 and Musician Pegasus that advertise NOS but don't actually do NOS, though they're good sounding DACs.)
> 
> Thank you for constantly putting out unique and exciting products. I always get excited when I see a new update from you guys!
> ...



Would love to see your measurements! Truly curious of the output of the NOS on the AP analyzer and how NOS mode sounds on your system


----------



## Hotdoggn

GoldenOne said:


> Really cool to see a true NOS DAC at this pricepoint!
> (There are some others like the Ares 2 and Musician Pegasus that advertise NOS but don't actually do NOS, though they're good sounding DACs.)
> 
> Thank you for constantly putting out unique and exciting products. I always get excited when I see a new update from you guys!
> ...


I’m honestly surprised you didn’t keep the BF2 when you reviewed it. Seemed like you truly enjoyed it. Your take on it was one that made me take the plunge and grab one from Schiit. 

Hope you get a taste of it again! After more than a year of using the BF2 as my primary DAC, I still haven’t gotten sick of it. And the upgraded card made me fall in love all over again.


----------



## erwinjaquez

GoldenOne said:


> Really cool to see a true NOS DAC at this pricepoint!
> (There are some others like the Ares 2 and Musician Pegasus that advertise NOS but don't actually do NOS, though they're good sounding DACs.)
> 
> Thank you for constantly putting out unique and exciting products. I always get excited when I see a new update from you guys!
> ...


Will you make a video about Yggdrasil Less is more?

I really enjoyed the one about bifrost 2


----------



## kumar402

Just had wonderful 1hr of music with Mercury Streamer -> Bifrost2 -> Bottlehead Mainline -> ZMF VC
One of the Best DAC at this price point.


----------



## velemar1

Tried the new Bifrost 2/64 upgrade card and sadly I will be returning it. The original Bifrost 2 is just too perfect, and I appreciate it a lot more now. Schiit swapped out the AD chips for Texas Instrument chips and for me it's a downgrade. If you love the Bifrost 2 and are considering the new upgrade, be prepared for a completely different sound. What it gains in soundstage width, treble/air extension, and detail it loses in its magic and its musical character. The original I would characterize as smooth, lifelike, warm, fun, punchy, dynamic-sounding yet also relaxing. The 2/64 trades away that warmth and that smooth lifelike sound for an increase in grainy detail that is grating to my ears and more digital sounding than I am used to hearing in a Schiit DAC. It also trades away the perfectly calibrated dynamics of the original in favor of a wider soundstage that just makes everything sound stretched and further away with less full-bodiness. I will say that the 2/64 does sound better for orchestral tracks, which is the one genre that the Bifrost 2 never excelled in. But for nearly everything else, I prefer the OG.


----------



## kumar402

velemar1 said:


> Tried the new Bifrost 2/64 upgrade card and sadly I will be returning it. The original Bifrost 2 is just too perfect, and I appreciate it a lot more now. Schiit swapped out the AD chips for Texas Instrument chips and for me it's a downgrade. If you love the Bifrost 2 and are considering the new upgrade, be prepared for a completely different sound. What it gains in soundstage width, treble/air extension, and detail it loses in its magic and its musical character. The original I would characterize as smooth, lifelike, warm, fun, punchy, dynamic-sounding yet also relaxing. The 2/64 trades away that warmth and that smooth lifelike sound for an increase in grainy detail that is grating to my ears and more digital sounding than I am used to hearing in a Schiit DAC. It also trades away the perfectly calibrated dynamics of the original in favor of a wider soundstage that just makes everything sound stretched and further away with less full-bodiness. I will say that the 2/64 does sound better for orchestral tracks, which is the one genre that the Bifrost 2 never excelled in. But for nearly everything else, I prefer the OG.


How long did you have it in the system. Give it 4-5 days and you won’t look back.
I have heard new one with ZMF cans and with ZMF this new card has better synergy
Finally it all comes down to chain that we have and music we listen to


----------



## schneller

Any update on a Yggdrasil LIM/Gungnir MB/BF2/64 blind test?


----------



## Neweymatt

Jason Stoddard said:


> Regarding Bifrost 2/64 and the sample rate glitches noted in some systems: we have new firmware to address it.
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/firmware
> 
> If you purchased a Bifrost 2/64 or Bifrost 2/64 upgrade and need an SDcard with the firmware on it, let us know and we'll get it out to you.


Fantastic news for the early adopters, less fantastic news for my wallet…


----------



## GoldenOne

theveterans said:


> Would love to see your measurements! Truly curious of the output of the NOS on the AP analyzer and how NOS mode sounds on your system


Im curious about it too.
NOS often measures a bit worse than oversampling (and has some behaviour like aliasing and rolloff which is technically incorrect) but a lot of people really like the sound.

Im a fan of NOS and use it about 40-50% of the time in my main system.


Hotdoggn said:


> I’m honestly surprised you didn’t keep the BF2 when you reviewed it. Seemed like you truly enjoyed it. Your take on it was one that made me take the plunge and grab one from Schiit.
> 
> Hope you get a taste of it again! After more than a year of using the BF2 as my primary DAC, I still haven’t gotten sick of it. And the upgraded card made me fall in love all over again.


The BF2 was loaned to me by a friend so didn't have the opportunity to keep/buy it unfortunately.

It is a great DAC though and I would like to buy one myself at somepoint


erwinjaquez said:


> Will you make a video about Yggdrasil Less is more?
> 
> I really enjoyed the one about bifrost 2


Yep! Just waiting for boards at the moment (supply issues are a limitation) but I have an MIL here and have had an OG A2 in the past.
Will be doing a video talking about all three 

Not sure what LIM will be like but I loved OG


----------



## Luckyleo

velemar1 said:


> Tried the new Bifrost 2/64 upgrade card and sadly I will be returning it. The original Bifrost 2 is just too perfect, and I appreciate it a lot more now. Schiit swapped out the AD chips for Texas Instrument chips and for me it's a downgrade. If you love the Bifrost 2 and are considering the new upgrade, be prepared for a completely different sound. What it gains in soundstage width, treble/air extension, and detail it loses in its magic and its musical character. The original I would characterize as smooth, lifelike, warm, fun, punchy, dynamic-sounding yet also relaxing. The 2/64 trades away that warmth and that smooth lifelike sound for an increase in grainy detail that is grating to my ears and more digital sounding than I am used to hearing in a Schiit DAC. It also trades away the perfectly calibrated dynamics of the original in favor of a wider soundstage that just makes everything sound stretched and further away with less full-bodiness. I will say that the 2/64 does sound better for orchestral tracks, which is the one genre that the Bifrost 2 never excelled in. But for nearly everything else, I prefer the OG.


Glad you enjoy the original.  It's cool that you were able to try the 2/64 board, decide for yourself whether or not it was great, and if it wasn't to your liking, being able to return to Schiit.  Great company for sure!

Leo


----------



## twigfarm

BShaw said:


> Actually most of my listening is through my speakers, which I called out in the post, and I really love them, a true labor of audiophool down-the-rabbit-hole love I built a year ago.
> I took the day off today, and put another 8 hours on the new board. 7 or so earlier, then left and came back.  If things keep going the way they have been today, I may have to put my tail between my legs and retract some of what I said, in degree at least. The glare seems to have receded, but most of all what I'm hearing now is the DETAIL and the timbre, which is all of what the BF2 had. It seems to be settling in. Listening to Anouar Brahem right now and man it sounds crushing. Of course there's neural burn-in too.......
> I don't care what people say about "aural memory", mostly at this point (while still probably more or less true) it's just another internet trope barfed around so we sound smart. I'll bet there are a lot of people around here who may or may not hear like a 15 year old, but LISTEN skillfully.
> Oh, and as you suggest, I have always left my BF on, 24/7, unless I'm working under the hood!


Thanks for your update.  Sorry that I didn't pick up on the fact that the Auricles were speakers while quickly reading your post. Name was unfamiliar to me.  How ARE the Auricles?  I'm always interested in a good sounding monitor speaker (especially mini-monitors for my smallish listening area.).


----------



## TheTechQ

theeclone said:


> Not really. I think it's just that woth a 2GB card, the 32K cluster size doesn't work so well. 4GB and up should be good.


Yep. I had a 2 GB that didn't work, so I got a 256 GB. That is overkill but works fine. Given Schiit's history of not releasing firmware updates very often I'll reuse this card for another project. It's nice to know that the Bifrost works with larger cards as well.


----------



## SirIppo

I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?


----------



## kumar402

SirIppo said:


> I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?


Yes, you can


----------



## velemar1

SirIppo said:


> I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?





SirIppo said:


> I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?





SirIppo said:


> I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Is the Bifrost 2/64 version direct coupled like the Bifrost 2 was? The spec page for the Bifrost 2 mentioned it was "direct coupled throughout", while the spec page for the Bifrost 2/64 does not have such words.


----------



## RickB

SirIppo said:


> I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?


Yes, you should be able to.


----------



## BShaw

twigfarm said:


> Thanks for your update.  Sorry that I didn't pick up on the fact that the Auricles were speakers while quickly reading your post. Name was unfamiliar to me.  How ARE the Auricles?  I'm always interested in a good sounding monitor speaker (especially mini-monitors for my smallish listening area.).


I love the Auricles, I think Jeff Bagby really dialed it in with this design - the 6.5" Satori and the RAAL integrate beautifully, pretty simple first and second order crossovers, and a simple, elegant design. Both drivers do what they do beautifully, the Satori is super musical with outstanding timbre, and the RAALs, well you either love them or not I guess, but to me they present music in a really natural and effortless way. Some people have compared them to the Salk Silks, which isn't surprising given the similarities and the fact that Mr. Salk and Mr. Bagby were friends and worked together I believe. It doesn't hurt that I maxed out the internals either  Not cheap for a DIY 2 way, but it was worth it to me. With tubes and the Bifrost, jazz, vocals, guitar, even piano if the recording is good, sound as if the musicians are in the room, to (not) coin a phrase!


----------



## duncan4791 (Aug 12, 2022)

Ham Sandwich said:


> Is the Bifrost 2/64 version direct coupled like the Bifrost 2 was? The spec page for the Bifrost 2 mentioned it was "direct coupled throughout", while the spec page for the Bifrost 2/64 does not have such words.


Direct coupled in other Schiit products refers to the absence of capacitors in the signal path, resulting in a DC coupled output. I'm betting the 2/64 card is the same. It's almost a trademark. I suspect Jason just forgot to mention it. I'd like to know how their getting -134db crosstalk. Every other product is <70 or 90db.


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 12, 2022)

Btarr said:


> If I'm Not having any issues with 2/64 upgrade, should I just leave well enough alone and NOT install the latest FW ( Bifrost 2 C0094, D0109)?


I don't know the answer. I'm falling back on the old adage "if it's not broke, don't fix it".

Without an immediate need, I'm going to listen to the community's anecdotes regarding the new firmware.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Is there a consensus on whether or not the new firmware has any effect on the sound of the OG BF2 when in the normal OS mode, not the new NOS mode?


----------



## TheTechQ

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Is there a consensus on whether or not the new firmware has any effect on the sound of the OG BF2 when in the normal OS mode, not the new NOS mode?


I'm running the latest firmware on the OG Bifrost 2 and have not noticed any difference.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

TheTechQ said:


> I'm running the latest firmware on the OG Bifrost 2 and have not noticed any difference.


I didn’t expect there to be a difference, but I read one user’s opinion on another forum that said he noticed small improvements on his OG with the new firmware.


----------



## TheTechQ

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I didn’t expect there to be a difference, but I read one user’s opinion on another forum that said he noticed small improvements on his OG with the new firmware.


I did as well, but it does not appear to be related to the firmware update. I first tried to upgrade with a 2 GB card which of course failed due to the cluster size issue. When I restarted the DAC, I was surprised to hear the original (slightly better) audio quality. I tried NOS mode which didn't work. I then tried with the 256 GB card and the upgrade succeeded. The audio quality was the same as after the initial reset. I'm not sure if it was audionervosa, reseating all the cable connectors, or a software issue, but the "improvement" occurred after powering down the DAC, disconnecting the cables, and reconnecting the cables, but before successfully flashing the firmware.


----------



## Luckyleo

SirIppo said:


> I'm looking to get this new bifrost 2/64 or a old bifrost 2 with the Analog Devices chip. Just have a quick question, would I be able to put the old Analog devices card in the new bifrost 2/64 if I wanted to?


yes


----------



## Luckyleo

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I didn’t expect there to be a difference, but I read one user’s opinion on another forum that said he noticed small improvements on his OG with the new firmware.


Jason said that the only change to the go was NOS mode


----------



## RickB

Is the general consensus that the Bifrost 2 with the NOS enabling firmware sounds the same when NOS is not enabled?

It's probably just my imagination, but I keep thinking that I'm hearing sharper treble. I have a Bifrost 2 that is updated to the very latest firmware.


----------



## Alcophone

I was curious to see whether the firmware update fixes the issues I had with WASAPI in event mode and hardware buffer lengths > 20 ms, but nothing appears to have changed on that front. Curious that one of the two firmware files increased 23% in size for this fix.

I also checked whether NOS mode can be toggled with a remote and it does not appear so.


----------



## tmac17

RickB said:


> Is the general consensus that the Bifrost 2 with the NOS enabling firmware sounds the same when NOS is not enabled?
> 
> It's probably just my imagination, but I keep thinking that I'm hearing sharper treble. I have a Bifrost 2 that is updated to the very latest firmware.


I've noticed no difference.  
Strange how some hear it and others don't. Strange that some had firmware issues and others didn't. 
Figure everyone that bought BF new or bought the upgrade would have started out with the same thing.


----------



## inmytaxi

Alcophone said:


> I was curious to see whether the firmware update fixes the issues I had with WASAPI in event mode and hardware buffer lengths > 20 ms, but nothing appears to have changed on that front. Curious that one of the two firmware files increased 23% in size for this fix.


That's to communicate with the servers in Italy ... no need for you to worry about such things.


----------



## Balthazar B (Aug 13, 2022)

BShaw said:


> I love the Auricles, I think Jeff Bagby really dialed it in with this design - the 6.5" Satori and the RAAL integrate beautifully, pretty simple first and second order crossovers, and a simple, elegant design. Both drivers do what they do beautifully, the Satori is super musical with outstanding timbre, and the RAALs, well you either love them or not I guess, but to me they present music in a really natural and effortless way. Some people have compared them to the Salk Silks, which isn't surprising given the similarities and the fact that Mr. Salk and Mr. Bagby were friends and worked together I believe. It doesn't hurt that I maxed out the internals either  Not cheap for a DIY 2 way, but it was worth it to me. With tubes and the Bifrost, jazz, vocals, guitar, even piano if the recording is good, sound as if the musicians are in the room, to (not) coin a phrase!


Hmmm...maybe a new project for @Paladin79 ...?


----------



## inmytaxi (Aug 13, 2022)

You guys are freaking me out, man.

I'm having measurement anxiety.

Modius to the rescue.  Kick my BF2's ass all over the place with all that SINAD!

God help me ... listening to poorly sourced recordings made in the 3rd world 45 years ago, which sound like they've been stored in a backwoods grow. And my dac is the problem ...

haha. hahahaha.  Modius is not the answer I am looking for ...


----------



## Paladin79 (Aug 13, 2022)

Balthazar B said:


> Hmmm...maybe a new project for @Paladin79 ...?


Now there's a bad idea lol. I am already ten sets of speakers behind that I need to build for local friends who want tiny radials.


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm waiting for the tiny 'Bias Ply' model.


----------



## De7mi

Hay guys, would you say that the new bifrost 64 is an upgrade to the topping d90se ?


----------



## inmytaxi

De7mi said:


> Hay guys, would you say that the new bifrost 64 is an upgrade to the topping d90se ?


Wait, are you seriously wondering if the Schiit fan boys in the Schiit history forum are going to think their Schiit sounds better than the other guys Schiit?


----------



## Ripper2860

I suspect we will be equally as fanatic about our choice while likely being far more polite than some Topping fan sites.


----------



## Luckyleo

inmytaxi said:


> Wait, are you seriously wondering if the Schiit fan boys in the Schiit history forum are going to think their Schiit sounds better than the other guys Schiit?


Personally, I thought the Topping was a great value.  However, for MY TASTES, it was too clinical sounding.  Too sterile, and not fun.  Again, FOR ME.  YMMV

Leo


----------



## De7mi

inmytaxi said:


> Wait, are you seriously wondering if the Schiit fan boys in the Schiit history forum are going to think their Schiit sounds better than the other guys Schiit?


I mean is it technically a side grade or an upgrade because they are in the same price range, but yet again what was I expecting right ?


----------



## De7mi

Luckyleo said:


> Personally, I thought the Topping was a great value.  However, for MY TASTES, it was too clinical sounding.  Too sterile, and not fun.  Again, FOR ME.  YMMV
> 
> Leo


Thank you, from technical point of view, do you find the bifrost 64 has a higher resolution?


----------



## erwinjaquez

De7mi said:


> Hay guys, would you say that the new bifrost 64 is an upgrade to the topping d90se ?


I don’t know about that one. But when the 2/64 upgrade card was misbehaving I bought the smsl d300 just in case. 

It’s been returned already. I think the 2/64 upgrade it’s a better product.


----------



## Lvivske (Aug 13, 2022)

fwiw I thought the Topping e50 (which I think has been called a stripped down d90se?) held its own to the B2, but depends on the synergy with the rest of your system. With one (very detail oriented) amp I preferred the Topping because it's smoother and the Bifrost is a bit artificially bright by comparison in the way it handles certain things. On the other hand, the B2 meshed better with my tube amp / Rebel because those details were more of a shine than the _Photoshop Sharpness Enhancer Tool _it was on the other.

But the B2 is a permanent fixture on my desk now and the Topping is in a drawer, so if we go by last man standing rules...


----------



## De7mi

Lvivske said:


> fwiw I thought the Topping e50 (which I think has been called a stripped down d90se?) held its own to the B2, but depends on the synergy with the rest of your system. With one (very detail oriented) amp I preferred the Topping because it's smoother and the Bifrost is a bit artificially bright by comparison in the way it handles certain things. On the other hand, the B2 meshed better with my tube amp / Rebel because those details were more of a shine than the _Photoshop Sharpness Enhancer Tool _it was on the other.
> 
> But the B2 is a permanent fixture on my desk now and the Topping is in a drawer, so if we go by last man standing rules...


I don’t know why but Schiit products always feels natural and you feel compelled to listen to them more. 

I still have the magnius modius and love them both. 

Thank you for your feedback


----------



## inmytaxi

De7mi said:


> I mean is it technically a side grade or an upgrade because they are in the same price range, but yet again what was I expecting right ?


I think you're probably correct if you think it's an side grade more than an upgrade.  I have neither, from the reading I've done they seem similar so far as overall quality goes.  Does the Topping have a vol control? That'd be nice if you don't have a preamp!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 13, 2022)

Call me a sucker, but I could not hold back any longer.  Placed my order for the 2/64 upgrade card today and I'm hoping the 10-12 weeks is a VERY conservative timeframe with next Monday being a more realistic shipping ship date.


----------



## Btarr

Ripper2860 said:


> Call me a sucker, but I could not hold back any longer.  Placed my order for the 2/64 upgrade card today and I'm hoping the 10-12 weeks is a VERY conservative timeframe with next Monday being a more realistic shipping ship date.


$5 says you get it delivered a bit early.  Schiit is good like that.


----------



## Ripper2860

Schiit is the BEST!!


----------



## Luckyleo

De7mi said:


> I mean is it technically a side grade or an upgrade because they are in the same price range, but yet again what was I expecting right ?


I disagree.  It's all about a person's sonic preferences and their hearing.  I'm 68 and my hearing is not the same as a 20 year old.  For me, this is an obvious and non-incremental upgrade.  To my old ears, this is a significant improvement.  YMMV

Leo


----------



## cgb3

Paladin79 said:


> Now there's a bad idea lol. I am already ten sets of speakers behind that I need to build for local friends who want tiny radials.


How does one man tell another man "beautiful wood", and remain completely heterosexual?


----------



## tedacura1

cgb3 said:


> How does one man tell another man "beautiful wood", and remain completely heterosexual?


lol


----------



## cgb3

Ripper2860 said:


> Call me a sucker, but I could not hold back any longer.  Placed my order for the 2/64 upgrade card today and I'm hoping the 10-12 weeks is a VERY conservative timeframe with next Monday being a more realistic shipping ship date.


Nice. I think you'll really enjoy it. Couldn't be a better reward to a great guy.


----------



## Paladin79

Luckyleo said:


> I disagree.  It's all about a person's sonic preferences and their hearing.  I'm 68 and my hearing is not the same as a 20 year old.  For me, this is an obvious and non-incremental upgrade.  To my old ears, this is a significant improvement.  YMMV
> 
> Leo


Age is one of the reasons I like to get opinions from younger ears. We  had a large group doing a 20 DAC comparison but the Bifrost was not around then. I own one but do not use it much as it sits, maybe the upgrade will help a bit.


----------



## Alcophone

cgb3 said:


> How does one man tell another man "beautiful wood", and remain completely heterosexual?


"Beautiful specimen, bro. The best tree is a dead tree made useful. You're an A+ tree taxidermist."


----------



## inmytaxi

cgb3 said:


> How does one man tell another man "beautiful wood", and remain completely heterosexual?


Why would you want to do something like that?


----------



## Balthazar B (Aug 13, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> How does one man tell another man "beautiful wood", and remain completely heterosexual?


I don't know, but if @Paladin79 is flattered, he might send you the most amazingly lifelike birdseye maple prosthetic, well beyond anything you could have imagined.


----------



## cgb3

Paladin79 said:


> Age is one of the reasons I like to get opinions from younger ears. We  had a large group doing a 20 DAC comparison but the Bifrost was not around then. I own one but do not use it much as it sits, maybe the upgrade will help a bit.


One looses hearing range with age, but also gains knowledge.

Anyone remember the scene in "Ray" (great movie, Jamie Fox did a fantastic job) when he's having lunch with his future wife? The window is open in the restaurant, and he asks his date if she can hear the hummingbird outside the window. "Close your eyes, and listen".


----------



## Paladin79

Balthazar B said:


> I don't know, but if @Paladin79 is flattered, he might send you the most amazing birdseye maple prosthetic beyond your imagination.


I draw the line at headphone racks. I do have a wood lathe that allowed me to put round corners on the @bcowen amp.




I was thinking Art Deco but that style was probably less obvious to Mr. Cowen. Pearls before bar b cued swine I suppose.😜


----------



## regaet

Ripper2860 said:


> Call me a sucker, but I could not hold back any longer.  Placed my order for the 2/64 upgrade card today and I'm hoping the 10-12 weeks is a VERY conservative timeframe with next Monday being a more realistic shipping ship date.


I was going to wait too but caved, I thought I could always send it back if I didn't like it. At 24 hrs I thought I might be sending it back, at 36 hrs the warmth and image that was missing was there and now at a little over a week I love it. Worth every penny to me!


----------



## bcowen

Paladin79 said:


> I draw the line at headphone racks. I do have a wood lathe that allowed me to put round corners on the @bcowen amp.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking Art Deco but that style was probably less obvious to Mr. Cowen.* Pearls before bar b cued swine I suppose.*😜


----------



## tincanear (Aug 14, 2022)

Any ideas about  break-in and warm-up times for BF2/64?   Also sound quality  vs BF1 multibit?  Is BF2/64 brighter?


----------



## tmac17 (Aug 14, 2022)

tincanear said:


> Any ideas about  break-in and warm-up times for BF2/64?   Also sound quality  vs BF1 multibit?  Is BF2/64 brighter?


I posted a break in time question on schiits fan page on Facebook. It opened up a can of worms... petty arguments about it. Such a silly thing to have an argument about.

But I personally found the sound did change. I bought the bf2 /64 brand new...and when I plugged it in my system it sounded a little flat/veiled  compared to the Ares 2 tht I had in prior. I let it play music for a few days(with active speakers off) & it did open up quite a bit. I obviously didn't listen  to music 72hrs straight but I did/do listen everyday when I can. I feel it'll open up for ya...but others didn't notice and the guys at Schiit say there is zero break in time. I don't mind giving something a few days though...but generally if it's not good fit in my system straight out the box then no break in will matter. Bf 2/64 is a great fit for the system of mine that it currently sits in. I also never turn it off...its always warmed up 
Can't comment on ur 2nd question. Sorry


----------



## mekap

Ripper2860 said:


> Call me a sucker, but I could not hold back any longer.  Placed my order for the 2/64 upgrade card today and I'm hoping the 10-12 weeks is a VERY conservative timeframe with next Monday being a more realistic shipping ship date.


Delivery will not take 10-12 weeks, it will take literally 1 week, at least for me it was.


----------



## theeclone (Aug 14, 2022)

tincanear said:


> Any ideas about  break-in and warm-up times for BF2/64?   Also sound quality  vs BF1 multibit?  Is BF2/64 brighter?


If memory serves, the 2/64 started opening up a bit after about 24 hrs of being on. The tonal balance didn't change much, but it felt more solid, euphonic, with a taller soundstage.

It's been a lonnng time since I listened to the original bimby, but I recall it being a whole nother animal, like a bigger sounding mimby.

The other day I listened to the newest rev O.G. Yggy at the Schiitr, then came home and popped the 2/64 card in and after the aforementioned 24 hrs, I was surprised to find that I felt like the BF2 was doing a lot of things I liked about the Yggy, maybe to a lesser extent.

Both times I've listened to the Yggy I was impressed with how big the soundstage was (tall, deep, and wide), and the dynamic control. The 2/64 brings the BF2 closer to that experience than the original card, in my opinion.

I do think the 2/64 is brighter, but with the extra bass extension, it still feels really balanced tonally, while being less veiled than with the original card.

Edit: I'm not being very scientific about this, and it's totally possible that I'd been turning off my amp and preamp more leading up to the BF2 upgrade, and then left the whole system on for 24 hrs. Can't recall for sure. Maybe it was more about my system needing to warm up. My adcom receiver is huge and probably takes a while to reach stability.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I'm also kind of a believer in the effects of power cables. I have a really fat, sheilded PS Audio power cable on the BF2. I sometimes wonder if this helps compensate for less beefy transformers & capacitors found in smaller components like the BF2.


----------



## cgb3

Still enjoying the music.

I have to control (adjust) what I'm hearing. The Schiit Lokius looks to be a near future pick=-up.


----------



## SirIppo

Anyone going to be selling their old analog devices card?


----------



## theeclone

SirIppo said:


> Anyone going to be selling their old analog devices card?


I'd probably sell mine for a hundo + shipping


----------



## twigfarm

SirIppo said:


> Anyone going to be selling their old analog devices card?


Maybe.  Ordered the new card last week & we'll see how it goes.  BTW, is there any "recommended" sequence to doing the update/upgrade, i.e. update firmware first then install card or vice versa?

Thanks!


----------



## BShaw

twigfarm said:


> Maybe.  Ordered the new card last week & we'll see how it goes.  BTW, is there any "recommended" sequence to doing the update/upgrade, i.e. update firmware first then install card or vice versa?
> 
> Thanks!


It seems most people are updating first, then doing the card swap. I swapped cards first, and didn't have a problem.


----------



## BShaw

Several pages back, I posted my first impressions of the new 2/64 card, and I'd like to update on my experience now after over 20 hours of listening, because I was hasty in posting early impressions and things have changed.

First a disclaimer - I think aural memory is a mixed bag and very complex, also involving emotion, prejudice, etc. Memory is also very plastic and very creative. So please take anything I say with that in mind. Even so, I still believe we can compare cues and landmarks in the music, and also emotional responses connected to what we're hearing. For instance, if I'm now wincing through a passage, or thinking "ouch" when a female vocalist lays a heavy "S" on the mike, I take it as proof enough. On the contrary, there can be a "ew hell yeah" feeling that goes up my spine hearing a drummer ride a cymbal and driving a song, that was out of reach of my ears before. That's telling me something too.

Early on my complaints were that basically the new card sounded light in the bass, even the mids to a degree and there was a bit of glare or brightness that sounded off. Let's not even talk about NOS, was and is still a definite no to me, sounds like what it is, an infinite bunch of square steps. I'll take the MCB filter thank you.

The new card is without a doubt more resolving and presenting noticeably more information from the upper mids to the upper treble, but no longer sounds at all harsh to me, whether that's my brain or the Bifrost I can't tell, but I'd venture most of the credit goes to the BF. People have said the slightly reined in bass and lower mids was an illusion, and only seems to be so because things are now more balanced. I disagree, and maintain that the bass ans lower mids are less juicy and thick than they were before, but it's not at all bad, just a little different. I had gotten used to the badass tone of the original card, and miss it a bit, but the gains in the 2/64 card are way more than worth any slight perceived tradeoffs. 

To sum it up, to my ears and in my system (tubes and RAAL ribbons), the new card has given me the DAC I always wanted, with fantastic clarity and detail up top, and plenty of resolution in the middle, and articulate, fast bass, even with tubes. I owned the original BF2 for a bit over a year, and was always feeling like something was holding back the treble, it made me work harder to try to hear things like brushes than I was happy with. No more, it's all there, and I just sit back and listen, with a lot of smiles.


----------



## twigfarm

BShaw said:


> Several pages back, I posted my first impressions of the new 2/64 card, and I'd like to update on my experience now after over 20 hours of listening, because I was hasty in posting early impressions and things have changed.
> 
> First a disclaimer - I think aural memory is a mixed bag and very complex, also involving emotion, prejudice, etc. Memory is also very plastic and very creative. So please take anything I say with that in mind. Even so, I still believe we can compare cues and landmarks in the music, and also emotional responses connected to what we're hearing. For instance, if I'm now wincing through a passage, or thinking "ouch" when a female vocalist lays a heavy "S" on the mike, I take it as proof enough. On the contrary, there can be a "ew hell yeah" feeling that goes up my spine hearing a drummer ride a cymbal and driving a song, that was out of reach of my ears before. That's telling me something too.
> 
> ...


Nice follow-up.  Thanks!


----------



## Lvivske

Ripper2860 said:


> Call me a sucker, but I could not hold back any longer.  Placed my order for the 2/64 upgrade card today and I'm hoping the 10-12 weeks is a VERY conservative timeframe with next Monday being a more realistic shipping ship date.



You're a sucker.


----------



## Lvivske

BShaw said:


> First a disclaimer - I think aural memory is a mixed bag and very complex, also involving emotion, prejudice, etc. Memory is also very plastic and very creative. So please take anything I say with that in mind. Even so, I still believe we can compare cues and landmarks in the music, and also emotional responses connected to what we're hearing. For instance, if I'm now wincing through a passage, or thinking "ouch" when a female vocalist lays a heavy "S" on the mike, I take it as proof enough. On the contrary, there can be a "ew hell yeah" feeling that goes up my spine hearing a drummer ride a cymbal and driving a song, that was out of reach of my ears before. That's telling me something too.



I think a factor that is often forgotten is just having bad day. Sometimes I want to crank my stuff, others I feel a bit sensitive to certain frequencies. Today I put one amp on and though wow, it's bit harsh now? Started fiddling with the EQ knobs to see if the mids were off....Then swapped to my desktop (with B2) and had the same discomfort / wincing.

Probably didn't get enough sleep, and things are just irritating me today. Not the gear's fault.


----------



## theeclone

Lvivske said:


> I think a factor that is often forgotten is just having bad day. Sometimes I want to crank my stuff, others I feel a bit sensitive to certain frequencies. Today I put one amp on and though wow, it's bit harsh now? Started fiddling with the EQ knobs to see if the mids were off....Then swapped to my desktop (with B2) and had the same discomfort / wincing.
> 
> Probably didn't get enough sleep, and things are just irritating me today. Not the gear's fault.


This. Usually the first question I ask myself is, "How much am I enjoying this?" All of the analysis and descriptors come afterwards to help explain the answer to that question. And sometimes it definitely is just a bad day. Extra tinnitus, etc.

This is also why I think conducting studies to figure out what people can and can't hear in laboratory conditions is so limiting. Music is life. Life doesn't exist in laboratory conditions. Humans are complex.


----------



## automojo (Aug 16, 2022)

Thanks for the 2/64 updates!
Myself, for now I’m more then happy with the balance and resolving prowness of the BF2
It fits my system and ears perfectly.
Never a need to “wince”.
Unless of course that’s in the recording?
Regardless it doesn’t sound like a pleasant listening experience regardless of the improved resolution.
That in itself is kind of a nonstarter for me.
At the very least I’m gonna wait for a professional review like Darko etc to get a good handle on what this change really involves sonically.
Or at least someone that’s very familiar with the original BF2  versus the 2/64.
The stock BF2 is very resolving and well balanced compared to the BFMB.
Anything that effects that balance to improve perceived resolution… just in my opinion would be a step backwards.


----------



## automojo

Just a FYI
I don’t mean to sound disregarding of anyone’s reviews here.
It’s a difficult thing I hundred percent agree.
Myself I take notes… and use a half a dozen or 10 songs I’m really familiar with  to get a handle.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Thanks for the 2/64 updates!
> Myself, for now I’m more then happy with the balance and resolving prowness of the BF2
> It fits my system and ears perfectly.
> Never a need to “wince”.
> ...



I agree with you that tonality > technicality. If technicalities are elevated higher, tonality shouldn't be sacrificed. Yggdrasil has lots of technicalities yet does not make listener feel more listening fatigue from the increased resolution due to the tonality being preserved faithfully


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> Just a FYI
> I don’t mean to sound disregarding of anyone’s reviews here.
> It’s a difficult thing I hundred percent agree.
> Myself I take notes… and use a half a dozen or 10 songs I’m really familiar with  to get a handle.


It didn't seem disregarding to me, just straightforward. I appreciate what you said. In spite of my positive follow up review a while back, I still have moments where I feel like things are slanting a bit bright for my taste. I was totally smitten with the old board, and I'm afraid the timbre of the TI chips is just never going to be quite the same. But it's not a case of one being better, as others have stated. I really appreciate the opening up of the top end here, and I can find ways to tame the bit of glare if it still gets on my nerves in the coming months. I love having an R2R that has such organic tone, the new board more neutral to my ears, and can resolve detail like a good DS. Best of both worlds


----------



## theeclone

automojo said:


> Thanks for the 2/64 updates!
> Myself, for now I’m more then happy with the balance and resolving prowness of the BF2
> It fits my system and ears perfectly.
> Never a need to “wince”.
> ...


FWIW, I've listened extensively on the original BF2 card and personally would never go back since upgrading. Never once winced, except maybe in NOS mode, but that happened even with the old card in NOS mode.

I think the new card has excellent tonal balance and never sounds harsh when using Schiit's filter.


----------



## Lvivske

automojo said:


> Just a FYI
> I don’t mean to sound disregarding of anyone’s reviews here.
> It’s a difficult thing I hundred percent agree.
> Myself I take notes… and use a half a dozen or 10 songs I’m really familiar with  to get a handle.



wait till you have over 100 testing songs


----------



## automojo (Aug 17, 2022)

Lvivske said:


> wait till you have over 100 testing songs


??
I easily could if I wanted to
it’s a matter of convenience.
100 vs 10 doesn’t necessarily make anything better or worse
It’s about really listening.
Usually a good thing to not make assumptions IMHO


----------



## automojo (Aug 17, 2022)

theeclone said:


> FWIW, I've listened extensively on the original BF2 card and personally would never go back since upgrading. Never once winced, except maybe in NOS mode, but that happened even with the old card in NOS mode.
> 
> I think the new card has excellent tonal balance and never sounds harsh when using Schiit's filter.


Thanks, I appreciate it.


----------



## automojo (Aug 17, 2022)

BShaw said:


> It didn't seem disregarding to me, just straightforward. I appreciate what you said. In spite of my positive follow up review a while back, I still have moments where I feel like things are slanting a bit bright for my taste. I was totally smitten with the old board, and I'm afraid the timbre of the TI chips is just never going to be quite the same. But it's not a case of one being better, as others have stated. I really appreciate the opening up of the top end here, and I can find ways to tame the bit of glare if it still gets on my nerves in the coming months. I love having an R2R that has such organic tone, the new board more neutral to my ears, and can resolve detail like a good DS. Best of both worlds


Thanks for the thoughtful reply it sure is appreciated!
The 1 Gen BF2 is pretty much an end game for me.. so I’ll have to put some serious thought into deciding on the upgrade.
I play mine main through a set of highly modified ESS AMT3's, or a set of stock Infinity RSiiia's  soon to be recapped with Jatzen Superior Z's.
90% through the Infinity's-the AMT's through a competing system.
Both sealed bass cabs.
The stock BF with it's organic and textured bass is a perfect match.
The Great Heil, and Emit extract plenty of detail in the mids/highs.
I never had the feeling anything here was veiled or smoothed over, or lacking resolve.
Maybe the shift upwards is directing attention to itself vs the bass?
Changing what I feel is a more then reasonable balance in the BF2 would not be ideal in my setup.
Maybe this thread sums it up for myself.....
[URL="https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-bifrost-2.8226/page-3#post-269879"]Schiit Bifrost 2[/URL]
"It's tonal balance makes it easy to match. I'd say the Yggdrasil and Gungnir have more character which make it more difficult to get the best results and synergy if you are nitpicking.
Most evaluation was mostly done with this setup (except not with the XA25, but with the Aegir as the power amp). Note Bifrost 2 not pictured. It's been returned to Schiit."

"One major weakness of the Bifrost series throughout was the bass. Depending upon the model: not enough heft, maybe too much mid-bass bloat, lacking ultimately extension, mushy and muddy, etc. The bass power and quality are one of the most surprising aspects of Bifrost 2. I don't know WTH they did to finally fix this."


----------



## automojo

automojo said:


> Thanks for the thoughtful reply it sure is appreciated!
> The 1 Gen BF2 is pretty much an end game for me.. so I’ll have to put some serious thought into deciding on the upgrade.
> I play mine main through a set of highly modified ESS AMT3's, or a set of stock Infinity RSiiia's  soon to be recapped with Jatzen Superior Z's.
> Both sealed bass cabs.
> ...


----------



## Ripper2860

I'm of the mindset that if one is happy with what they have, then they should stick with it.  If one is unhappy with their current sitch or are 'audio-curious', then they should purchase the BF2/64 upgrade card and try it out.  If it is not to one's liking, they can avail themselves of the return policy or the wonderful secondary market that exists for Schiit's products. A small price to pay to remove all doubt.


----------



## automojo (Aug 17, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> I'm of the mindset that if one is happy with what they have, then they should stick with it.  If one is unhappy with their current sitch or are 'audio-curious', then they should purchase the BF2/64 upgrade card and try it out.  If it is not to one's liking, they can avail themselves of the return policy or the wonderful secondary market that exists for Schiit's products. A small price to pay to remove all doubt.


100% agree.
My purpose was to get a take on what it sounded like by those that already made the switch.
Myself don't have a problem with the $ if it's worthwhile.
I suppose I was thinking too much aloud here for some taste-I apologize.
The expansion of the soundstage is intriguing, and something I just ran across.
By it's own nature could be the cause of some perceived imbalance.
So the 64 board is sounding like it will be worth experimenting with.
Thanks guys-I appreciate the help and bearing with me!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 17, 2022)

In my case it is curiosity.  I'm very happy with my 2x OG BF2s and while I know that I can get general opinions on BF2/64, the only way to know how it will resonate with me is to try it on my gear, with my ears, and my music.  I pulled the trigger (or shall I say my wife gifted me one as a belated father's day).  Anxious to see how well it plays in my 2-channel setup with the Tekton Lore reference speakers.


----------



## automojo (Aug 17, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> In my case it is curiosity.  I'm very happy with my 2x OG BF2s and while I know that while I can get general opinions on BF2/64, the only way to know how it will resonate with me is to try it on my gear, with my ears, and my music.  I pulled the trigger (or shall I say my wife gifted me one as a belated father's day).  Anxious to see how well it plays in my 2-channel setup with the Tekton Lore reference speakers.


Yep I agree…thanks
And I’ve come to the same conclusion.
Sorry about thinking ‘out loud’ here…


----------



## Ripper2860

No need to apologize, really.  We all work through these processes in different ways.  😀


----------



## tameral

I agree that it's best to find out for yourself if the 2/64 is an upgrade or not. 

I found out that in my setup (LCD-X 2021, Atticus - through Jot 2) - I strongly preferred the OG Bifrost 2.   (The new card has its strengths and a majority may come to prefer it...it's very different)

Regardless of burn in time, I too found the 2/64 a bit sharp / bright, less musical.   Overall, the more I listened the more the more I was getting fatigued quickly in a listening session.

The OG Bifrost 2 seems to be the positive culmination of a lot of Schiit and I'm not rushing to change it out after this experiment.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 17, 2022)

I'm sitting pat with OG on my HP rig -- it really is dialed in to my liking.  The upgrade will be for my 2-channel rig to see if it can bring out a tad more detail and soundstage.  Counting the weeks until it arrives.  Perhaps it can be an early Christmas present! 😀


----------



## cgb3

There seems to a lot of personal opinion absolutes regarding this card.

I'm into day 9 of my 14 day try period.

Still sounds good to me, after multiple tube changes (with my Lyr 3, acting as preamp) and various headphones.

I changed a day or so into my trial to "exclusive mode (with Schiit Bifrost)".

I intend to install the original card on Friday. I'm betting the old card will be replaced within 2 hours?


----------



## Friskyseal (Aug 17, 2022)

Something to consider when you try and A/B the cards is that you are taking out a hot card and replacing it with a cold card. It's been reported extensively that Bifrost sounds best after some warm-up time, so it might not be a fair comparison. We kind of have to wait an hour or so before we can listen fairly, and by then our memory of the first card will be even worse. I think those that have two units side-by-side will be in a much better position to compare the two cards fairly.

I myself am having some minor trepidation regarding the new card. I think it is all a question of synergy. I never before thought the Focal Elex was harsh, but now I am getting some winces here and there. But maybe when I am able to save up for the smoother Utopia, I will appreciate the better resolution and soundstage of the new card. So even if I put back in the old card, it doesn't mean I would intend to return or sell the other.


----------



## WaveTheory

I've been fortunate to have an OG BF2 on loan from a friend so I could do direct A/B with my personal upgraded unit. I'll flesh this out more in my upcoming review but the results have been fascinating. I think I agree with Stoddard that the 2/64 is an unambiguous upgrade. So far I have found it technically superior on every signal chain I have tried, but every signal chain reacts differently. The patterns of change are mostly the same but the magnitudes of the reactions isn't correlated with price of gear either. My 6xx + Cayin HA-1AMK2, curiously, has revealed the largest difference so far. The V281 + HekV2 reveals the same differences, but not to the same extent. I definitely can see why some who have built a signal chain around OG BF2 and its sound might have gear that experiences differences in the right (wrong?) areas with their gear that make the 2/64 less enjoyable. Again, I'll flesh this out much more in my upcoming full review.


----------



## tinariwen

Are there any reviews out for the new card yet? I held off ordering one when I saw the firmware issues and now the wait time is pretty lengthy.

Also, from what I’m seeing it sounds like a Hugo 2 / Qutest. Brighter, more detailed, bigger stage, less musical…
Does that sound right?


----------



## theveterans

tinariwen said:


> Are there any reviews out for the new card yet? I held off ordering one when I saw the firmware issues and now the wait time is pretty lengthy.
> 
> Also, from what I’m seeing it sounds like a Hugo 2 / Qutest. Brighter, more detailed, bigger stage, less musical…
> Does that sound right?



Only Hugo 2 that’s brighter. Qutest is definitely warmer than Hugo 2 with just as much resolution from my A/B a month ago. Both still have the Chord transient signature around the note edges that highlights their detail retrieval and that accurate tonality. I prefer Schiit’s staging and that smooth tonality though compared to the more vivid Chord signature


----------



## tinariwen

theveterans said:


> Only Hugo 2 that’s brighter. Qutest is definitely warmer than Hugo 2 with just as much resolution from my A/B a month ago. Both still have the Chord transient signature around the note edges that highlights their detail retrieval and that accurate tonality. I prefer Schiit’s staging and that smooth tonality though compared to the more vivid Chord signature


Is that still the case with the new card in the BF2? It sounds as though it’s being described as brighter and less smooth, with more detail emphasis.


----------



## theveterans

tinariwen said:


> Is that still the case with the new card in the BF2? It sounds as though it’s being described as brighter and less smooth, with more detail emphasis.



I haven’t demoed the 2/64 card and only run the OG. To me though I’m thoroughly happy with the way my audio chain sounds even after hearing higher end gears (a lot of them aren’t being utilized to their fullest in the demo shows since the tonality felt off to my tastes IMO). I just believe that a synergistic system should not sacrifice the tonality that I find lifelike sounding for that extra resolution. If I upgrade my DAC, now I have to update my other chain, find that combination that would work for my tonality tastes without taking away the extra resolution and that’s a lot of punching holes on my wallet. My biggest issue with Yggdrasil is that I felt I’ll have that GAS OCD of going fully balanced especially after A/Bing Gungnir MB’s Bal and SE out at Schiitr and of course to utilize the best analog stage of the DAC, but my chain is 100% SE after the DAC unfortunately


----------



## WaveTheory (Aug 18, 2022)

tinariwen said:


> Is that still the case with the new card in the BF2? It sounds as though it’s being described as brighter and less smooth, with more detail emphasis.



To my ear the 2/64 is slightly brighter than the OG BF2 but as compared to other DACs I would not classify it as bright. I think its signature has basically become closer to true neutral rather than the neutral-warm sig the OG has. To my ear it has not become detail-forward. The improved resolution is still presented in a smooth, laidback way. I haven't A/B'd it against my Hugo 2 and honestly didn't plan to because I don't think there will be very many trying to decide between those 2 given their differences in price and approach. My educated guess is the H2 is still going to be more resolving with more accurate spatial imaging & separation than the BF2/64. I say this because the H2 was the first DAC where I noticed that recreating the space surrounding the soundstage was possible. For live recordings in concert halls in particular, the Hugo 2 can present the music on the stage in a spatially convincing way, then it can recreate a sense that the stage is existing within a larger space. There is just enough room reverb and such resolved that gives it a more 'your-butt-is-in-the-seating-area' kind of feel that I have yet to notice with the BF2/64. IME, it's not realistic to expect an <$1k DAC to do that and the Chords have been the entry point for hearing that. From a preference standpoint though, the Chord sound, especially with their cheaper units (which yeah, it's crazy but the $2k Qutest and $2.5k Hugo 2 are the cheaper Chords), is a bit tonally lean. The BF2/64 mostly maintains the OG BF2's thicker 'meat on the bone' kind of sound.


----------



## SirIppo

Just got my new bifrost 2/64 unit today, first time using a dac over $250, only other experience is with the topping e30,e50 and the creative g6. It sounds really good so far. Just got my monolith amt headphone as well and first tired them with the e50. It didn't sound good at all and sounded off, then I opened up the bifrost 2/64 box and tried that and it actually made those headphones sound pretty good. Its like it brought life into it. I was kind of neutral in the whole measurements vs measurements don't tell the whole story, since I really only used delta sigma dacs and I don't know anything else. It wasn't as subtle change, I mean the sound sounded off with the e50 and I simply changed to the bifrost 2 dac and it sounded alot better not just a little better. If I only used the monolith amt's with the e50 I would of just had a bad impression.


----------



## theveterans

WaveTheory said:


> To my ear the 2/64 is slightly brighter than the OG BF2 but as compared to other DACs I would not classify it as bright. I think its signature has basically become closer to true neutral rather than the neutral-warm sig the OG has. To my ear it has not become detail-forward. The improved resolution is still presented in a smooth, laidback way. I haven't A/B'd it against my Hugo 2 and honestly didn't plan to because I don't think there will be very many trying to decide between those 2 given their differences in price and approach. My educated guess is the H2 is still going to be more resolving with more accurate spatial imaging & separation than the BF2/64. I say this because the H2 was the first DAC where I noticed that recreating the space surrounding the soundstage was possible. For live recordings in concert halls in particular, the Hugo 2 can present the music on the stage in a spatially convincing way, then it can recreate a sense that the stage is existing within a larger space. There is just enough room reverb and such resolved that gives it a more 'your-butt-is-in-the-seating-area' kind of feel that I have yet to notice with the BF2/64. IME, it's not realistic to expect an <$1k DAC to do that and the Chords have been the entry point for hearing that. From a preference standpoint though, the Chord sound, especially with their cheaper units (which yeah, it's crazy but the $2k Qutest and $2.5k Hugo 2 are the cheaper Chords), is a bit tonally lean. The BF2/64 mostly maintains the OG BF2's thicker 'meat on the bone' kind of sound.



This is my opinion but after watching Rob Watts presentation, I would say that his very high oversampling approach to counter jitter effects that Bifrost 2 lacks. Schiit’s approach is with the use of VCXO reclocker as reference clock for Yggdrasil (this is different than the reclocker from Unison USB) since PCM can only be up to 24/192 across all inputs for Schiit while Rob watts WTA’s final stages runs at 104MHz PWM.

For BF2, its clock is dependent on the Unison USB (asynchronous, but the old gen5 card is isochronous) and the SPDIF’s clock is dependent on the source (synchronous) thus you need a good source/streamer with femtosecond clocks on top of BF2 if you want to elevate its resolution via SPDIF. The SP2000 DAP that I use as transport for BF2 at home via Toslink (it has 200 femtosecond oscillator) elevates BF2’s sense of space (pretty noticeable improvement) and arguably better resolution compared to Unison USB. Tonality remains the same of course across USB and Toslink.


----------



## WaveTheory

theveterans said:


> This is my opinion but after watching Rob Watts presentation, I would say that his very high oversampling approach to counter jitter effects that Bifrost 2 lacks. Schiit’s approach is with the use of VCXO reclocker as reference clock for Yggdrasil (this is different than the reclocker from Unison USB) since PCM can only be up to 24/192 across all inputs for Schiit while Rob watts WTA’s final stages runs at 104MHz PWM.
> 
> For BF2, its clock is dependent on the Unison USB (asynchronous, but the old gen5 card is isochronous) and the SPDIF’s clock is dependent on the source (synchronous) thus you need a good source/streamer with femtosecond clocks on top of BF2 if you want to elevate its resolution via SPDIF. The SP2000 DAP that I use as transport for BF2 at home via Toslink (it has 200 femtosecond oscillator) elevates BF2’s sense of space (pretty noticeable improvement) and arguably better resolution compared to Unison USB. Tonality remains the same of course across USB and Toslink.



Gotcha. The comparisons of which I spoke of H2 v OG BF2 would have happened using USB v USB or coax v coax with a Singxer SU-2 DDC. The H2 outperforms BF2 across the board but its USB implementation is the thing that needs the most work for the next generation. The use of the SU-2 should have removed any clock handling differences between the 2 units.


----------



## Alcophone

theveterans said:


> This is my opinion but after watching Rob Watts presentation, I would say that his very high oversampling approach to counter jitter effects that Bifrost 2 lacks. Schiit’s approach is with the use of VCXO reclocker as reference clock for Yggdrasil (this is different than the reclocker from Unison USB) since PCM can only be up to 24/192 across all inputs for Schiit while Rob watts WTA’s final stages runs at 104MHz PWM.


You can feed 16/44.1 to a Chord DAC as well, the input sample rate isn't really an issue. Internally, the Yggdrasil resamples everything to 352.8/384 kHz, that would be the rate to compare, if anything.



theveterans said:


> For BF2, its clock is dependent on the Unison USB (asynchronous, but the old gen5 card is isochronous)


USB gen 5 is also asynchronous:


Source


----------



## theveterans

Alcophone said:


> You can feed 16/44.1 to a Chord DAC as well, the input sample rate isn't really an issue. Internally, the Yggdrasil resamples everything to 352.8/384 kHz, that would be the rate to compare, if anything.
> 
> 
> USB gen 5 is also asynchronous:
> ...



Agreed. PCM oversampling with the Yggdrasil is still far lower than the PWM sampling rate of the Chord DAC hence the help of a better internal reference oscillator/wordclock that's common across all inputs that's lacking on middle line to lowest end of Schiit DACs. Chord DACs always produce exceptional jitter performance despite lacking an oscillator in their DACs and purely relying on the WTA filter and PWM with the Pulse Array discrete DAC. On the other end of the scale, we have NOS DACs like the MSB Select DAC with their Femto33 reclocker approach to reduce jitter to lowest possible level


----------



## twigfarm

Hey folks!

Sorry if I've missed it somewhere but have any sonic differences been observed or noted with just the firmware update without the new card?  Or does it solely give you the opportunity to use it in NOS mode?  And what does having NOS do for someone like me who is only using a CD transport?


----------



## theveterans

twigfarm said:


> Hey folks!
> 
> Sorry if I've missed it somewhere but have any sonic differences been observed or noted with just the firmware update without the new card?  Or does it solely give you the opportunity to use it in NOS mode?  And what does having NOS do for someone like me who is only using a CD transport?



I didn't notice a sonic difference between the firmware with the default mode on the OG card. The NOS definitely makes very noticeable difference and its signature will either be good for your tastes or not. If you use a CD transport, the bits and sample rate will directly be converted to analog without any further processing on the digital side (aka oversampling)


----------



## cgb3

DaBlakPill said:


> I’m having the same issue. After installing the 2/64 card and updating the firmware, my songs would sometimes sound distorted and fuzzy. I can temporary fix the issue by entering nos mode or cycling through the inputs.
> 
> The fuzzy distorted sound tends to occur when I play audio from different programs like if I launch a game right after listening to a song on Tidal. Or playing a song from my FLAC library and then playing a song on Spotify. I’m guessing the change in sampling or bit rate is causing a glitch on my Bifrost 2/64. I can force the glitchy sound when I change the sampling rate under sound properties (windows) during a song. Usually there would be a click when the sampling rate changes, but it doesn’t happen sometimes with 2/64 card and consequently causes the distorted sound.
> 
> I’m not sure if this is just defective card and I should get a replacement or if there is a fix.


Don't know why nobody has answered you with suggestions.

I'd first try the new firmware. If you have trouble installing, or are still having trouble, please repost. Remember, a micro SD card between 8-32GB, formated with FAT32, and 32kb clusters. (As recounted here).


----------



## cgb3

cgb3 said:


> There seems to a lot of personal opinion absolutes regarding this card.
> 
> I'm into day 9 of my 14 day try period.
> 
> ...


New plan. This card is so superior to the original, why would I change it out, just to change it back in.

Enjoy superiority.


----------



## DaBlakPill

cgb3 said:


> Don't know why nobody has answered you with suggestions.
> 
> I'd first try the new firmware. If you have trouble installing, or are still having trouble, please repost. Remember, a micro SD card between 8-32GB, formated with FAT32, and 32kb clusters. (As recounted here).


Oh, it was an older post but all my problems were resolved with the new firmware. Thanks for checking up on me.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Aug 21, 2022)

Off topic .. but does anyone have any links or suggestions for a small set of shelves for use with the bifrost and other items of the same size? To make a stack (keeping the equipment with some space between)


----------



## kumar402

JerryLeeds said:


> Off topic .. but does anyone have any links or suggestions for a small set of shelves for use with the bifrost and other items of the same size? To make a stack (keeping the equipment with some space between)


Some monitor risers with 2 shelves for cheap from Amazon is good staring point.


----------



## Orange5o

There are some neat 3d printed ones on Etsy called Schelfius if you search. They come apart easy and leave a little wiggle but may be what you are seeking


----------



## quimbo

JerryLeeds said:


> Off topic .. but does anyone have any links or suggestions for a small set of shelves for use with the bifrost and other items of the same size? To make a stack (keeping the equipment with some space between)


I purchased the rack I posted here


----------



## schneller

Any updates about there being a "blind" comparison of BF2/64, Gungnir A2/MB, and Yggdrasil LIM?
Tagging @Jason Stoddard as I believe he mentioned it as a possibility.


----------



## cgb3

Does Head-Fi award annual trophies for audio excellence?

I nominate the Schiit Bifrost 2/64 for the FU it's a great DAC award.


----------



## MacMan31

Anyone here with a Mac do the firmware update on their Bifrost 2?


----------



## theeclone

MacMan31 said:


> Anyone here with a Mac do the firmware update on their Bifrost 2?


As in, listens through a mac, or used the mac to flash the firmware? I did the latter (and it can be tough to be sure macos isn't dumping extraneous files on the sd card)


----------



## MacMan31

theeclone said:


> As in, listens through a mac, or used the mac to flash the firmware? I did the latter (and it can be tough to be sure macos isn't dumping extraneous files on the sd card)



I mean install the firmware update to the Bifrost 2.


----------



## RickB

MacMan31 said:


> I mean install the firmware update to the Bifrost 2.


Yes, I did. On an Intel Mac mini.


----------



## BShaw

I know this is a left field question, and apologies to @Jason Stoddard, but here goes:
I really enjoyed my OG BF2, just the timbre and heft of the sound, the excellent transient response.....but always felt it was holding back up top. The new board definitely resolved (haha) the top end, but I still have some reservations about the "musicality" compared to the old board. Before the surprise release of the new board 
I was looking at other options, including MHDT, Soekris, and the Musician Pegasus. I just wonder if anyone here has compared any of them, especially the Pegasus, to the Bifrost? 
I'm going to keep listening, and soon will swap the old board in, just for a reality check.


----------



## tinariwen

BShaw said:


> I know this is a left field question, and apologies to @Jason Stoddard, but here goes:
> I really enjoyed my OG BF2, just the timbre and heft of the sound, the excellent transient response.....but always felt it was holding back up top. The new board definitely resolved (haha) the top end, but I still have some reservations about the "musicality" compared to the old board. Before the surprise release of the new board
> I was looking at other options, including MHDT, Soekris, and the Musician Pegasus. I just wonder if anyone here has compared any of them, especially the Pegasus, to the Bifrost?
> I'm going to keep listening, and soon will swap the old board in, just for a reality check.


I’ve just recently found the exact same thing with the Bifrost 2 OG. I actually just bought a Chord Qutest to compare, and thanks to the amp I can volume match and quickly cut between the two. The Qutest definitely has more going on up top, which is the main thing I notice. Details might be a notch better, but not much. I’d say the 4th filter on the Qutest is closest to the Bifrost in general - more rolled off up top, maybe denser mids.

Whether I prefer it or not? The jury’s still out. I’m definitely enjoying the more neutral presentation, but I don’t know yet if I’ll find it grating after a while.

I’ve thought about getting the new board to balance the sound of the Bifrost a bit more, but it’s a heck of a wait. I was hoping some detailed reviews would be out by now.


----------



## theveterans

tinariwen said:


> I’ve just recently found the exact same thing with the Bifrost 2 OG. I actually just bought a Chord Qutest to compare, and thanks to the amp I can volume match and quickly cut between the two. The Qutest definitely has more going on up top, which is the main thing I notice. Details might be a notch better, but not much. I’d say the 4th filter on the Qutest is closest to the Bifrost in general - more rolled off up top, maybe denser mids.
> 
> Whether I prefer it or not? The jury’s still out. I’m definitely enjoying the more neutral presentation, but I don’t know yet if I’ll find it grating after a while.
> 
> I’ve thought about getting the new board to balance the sound of the Bifrost a bit more, but it’s a heck of a wait. I was hoping some detailed reviews would be out by now.



It would depend on the your preferred music and how badly mastered the tracks are. If you're listening to well mastered jazz/classical/rarely well mastered electronic music (e.g. daftpunk), I find Chord DACs rewarding sounding while I get a more engaging sound from BF2 from most music that I listen to since they're either mastered brightly (some 80's music, the cure, billy idol) or compressed to oblivion (modern pop/rock/jpop/kpop etc like RHCP, twentyonepilots, etc)


----------



## KrauserX91

I am not sure if upgrade the BF2 if it really improves the up top in exchange of losing musicality. I want still enjoying this funny unique DAC. I was thinking instead of upgrade the board, maybe I can wait for a possible rethinking of the Gungnir, do you think this could be coming soon? If I upgrade the Bifrost I want something like Bifrost with steroids.


----------



## MacMan31

RickB said:


> Yes, I did. On an Intel Mac mini.


So how did you do it? I have a MBP which has an SD card reader.


----------



## RickB (Aug 22, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> So how did you do it? I have a MBP which has an SD card reader.


I used Disk Utility or Terminal to format it using a 32KB cluster size. I forget exactly how, but I used this post as a guide.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/que...rd-to-fat32-with-custom-allocation-block-size

Edit: maybe this will be slightly easier to understand:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/nhlht7/how_to_change_allocation_unit_size_to_32_kb_for/


----------



## BShaw (Aug 22, 2022)

KrauserX91 said:


> I am not sure if upgrade the BF2 if it really improves the up top in exchange of losing musicality. I want still enjoying this funny unique DAC. I was thinking instead of upgrade the board, maybe I can wait for a possible rethinking of the Gungnir, do you think this could be coming soon? If I upgrade the Bifrost I want something like Bifrost with steroids.


My assessment is just one of many, so take it with a grain of salt. As I've been upgrading over the last year (ICs, re-capping my tweeters), everything has been done in part with an ear toward elevating the treble detail, with the BF2 in place. I wanted to get all I could out of it, and also my very capable RAAL tweets. I'm not saying my system is now overly bright, as my amp is all tubes and full of copper caps to boot, but it's definitely brighter than it was. This, and my own sensitivity to brassiness and squawkiness, is part of forming my opinion. I think if I still had the Mundorf caps in my speakers, I might feel a little differently, for example. Even so, I'm not being kept awake at night ruminating over how awful and tinny the new card is, not even close. It's a great DAC, just a slightly different flavor. I don't understand people who say they can't hear much or any difference, but that just goes to show you how varied perceptions can be.
I just love R2R DACs on a "philosophical" level, and until recently had Mike Moffat to lean on! Hence the interest in comparisons to the Pegasus and other sub-$1500 R2R units.

Just another little aside - I threw on some of my favorite Radiohead tracks this afternoon, along with Tsuyoshi Yamamoto's Midnight Sugar (fantastic piano recording), and with good recordings like these, this thing really kicked some good ole Bifrost butt. Maybe it's the less stellar masterings that suffer more with the new card, that could very well be. For sure, the more uppity my system has gotten, the less tolerant I've become of how shyte some of my old faves really are sonically. I don't mind being a snob if it's in my own house I suppose.


----------



## schneller

Rolled off highs/treble would not be good for my setup. I too wonder if BF2/64 has added more sparkle? The same "rolled off" comments have kept me hesitant about Yggdrasil LIM as well.


----------



## quimbo

quimbo said:


> I purchased the rack I posted here


At the time the rack was item B, it is now item K


----------



## TheFrator

Posting this over from another thread about DACs in general but figured y'all in the BF2 thread would like to read too. In essence, the BF2/64 is doing something great to the music especially to the imaging: 


After listening to the Sennheiser IE600 for a week and running it exclusively off the Apple dongle, I took away an impression that this IEM had no imaging whatsoever (I even made a post on r/headphones about it). The song I was using was _Reflection _by Tool where in the intro, every piece of the drum kit is in a different spot. I came to expect this imaging because my LCD-5 paired with Oor and Bifrost 2 rendered the song so. So on a whim this past weekend I hooked up the IE600 to my desktop chain, and bam! The imaging was back. I then tried the Apple dongle to Orr via a 3.5mm to RCA cable (i.e. dongle is only a DAC now) and again the imaging was non-existent and all the drums are in one overlapping blob in front of me. So it wasn't the Orr adding the imaging- it's something the Bifrost 2 is doing.


Imaging to me seems like a binary criteria- either it's there or it isn't. Not something subjective like bass texture or treble airiness. So my conclusion is that the Bifrost 2 is doing something to the digital signal that the DAC in the Apple dongle isn't. I want to believe all DACs are the same... I really wanted to but this to me has been a major revelation.


----------



## theveterans (Aug 23, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> Posting this over from another thread about DACs in general but figured y'all in the BF2 thread would like to read too. In essence, the BF2/64 is doing something great to the music especially to the imaging:
> 
> 
> After listening to the Sennheiser IE600 for a week and running it exclusively off the Apple dongle, I took away an impression that this IEM had no imaging whatsoever (I even made a post on r/headphones about it). The song I was using was _Reflection _by Tool where in the intro, every piece of the drum kit is in a different spot. I came to expect this imaging because my LCD-5 paired with Oor and Bifrost 2 rendered the song so. So on a whim this past weekend I hooked up the IE600 to my desktop chain, and bam! The imaging was back. I then tried the Apple dongle to Orr via a 3.5mm to RCA cable (i.e. dongle is only a DAC now) and again the imaging was non-existent and all the drums are in one overlapping blob in front of me. So it wasn't the Orr adding the imaging- it's something the Bifrost 2 is doing.
> ...



At least you've been awaked from the mass formation psychosis of basing every aspect of music reproduction with simple metrics such as graphs of FFT at 1KHz, crosstalk, etc spitted out by an analyzer. There are lots of DACs out there with interesting sound signatures and staging/imaging qualities but BF2 is very well balanced in this regard IMHO


----------



## automojo (Aug 24, 2022)

BShaw said:


> My assessment is just one of many, so take it with a grain of salt. As I've been upgrading over the last year (ICs, re-capping my tweeters), everything has been done in part with an ear toward elevating the treble detail, with the BF2 in place. I wanted to get all I could out of it, and also my very capable RAAL tweets. I'm not saying my system is now overly bright, as my amp is all tubes and full of copper caps to boot, but it's definitely brighter than it was. This, and my own sensitivity to brassiness and squawkiness, is part of forming my opinion. I think if I still had the Mundorf caps in my speakers, I might feel a little differently, for example. Even so, I'm not being kept awake at night ruminating over how awful and tinny the new card is, not even close. It's a great DAC, just a slightly different flavor. I don't understand people who say they can't hear much or any difference, but that just goes to show you how varied perceptions can be.
> I just love R2R DACs on a "philosophical" level, and until recently had Mike Moffat to lean on! Hence the interest in comparisons to the Pegasus and other sub-$1500 R2R units.
> 
> Just another little aside - I threw on some of my favorite Radiohead tracks this afternoon, along with Tsuyoshi Yamamoto's Midnight Sugar (fantastic piano recording), and with good recordings like these, this thing really kicked some good ole Bifrost butt. Maybe it's the less stellar masterings that suffer more with the new card, that could very well be. For sure, the more uppity my system has gotten, the less tolerant I've become of how shyte some of my old faves really are sonically. I don't mind being a snob if it's in my own house I suppose.


Curious what caps did you use on your tweets?
Ribbons?
I have alot of experience with ribbons particularly the Great  Heil, but the Emits as well.
In fact OG BF 2 gets mainly played through a set of yet to be recapped Infinity RS iiia, Van Alstine Trancedence tube preamp and PA2400 amp.
All my experiments with caps on the Great Heil ( lots of mixes) I have settled on the Jantzen Aluminum Z cap.
You get detail with out brightness/sheen.
The Superior Z cap is a close second.
And very budget friendly.
Both are very natural sounding with out the euphorics of say a Mundorf Mcap
Supreme.
My point is…you want to be careful tailoring you caps to your gear too much in one direction.


----------



## theveterans

House of the Dragon with just PC browser streaming sounding like Dolby Atmos imaging quality on a good HT setup with BF2 NOS through ASIO


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> Curious what caps did you use on your tweets?
> Ribbons?
> I have alot of experience with ribbons particularly the Great  Heil, but the Emits as well.
> In fact OG BF 2 gets mainly played through a set of yet to be recapped Infinity RS iiia, Van Alstine Trancedence tube preamp and PA2400 amp.
> ...


Using VCap ODAMs on the Raals. Like you said I think less colored than the Mundorfs, but really really transparent and open. They take forever to run in, so I’m hoping in another couple of months they’ll really deliver!
I’ve heard that aluminum z is very good, I have a pair of superior z in my amp in bypass positions, and also on my woofers to ground, great bang-for-buck.
The mcap supremes have a warm and yummy sound that I really do enjoy, but the Vcaps are delivering more music without the lush veil, to my ears. They just don’t seem to impose much and get out of the way if that makes sense. Fantastic caps!


----------



## automojo

BShaw said:


> Using VCap ODAMs on the Raals. Like you said I think less colored than the Mundorfs, but really really transparent and open. They take forever to run in, so I’m hoping in another couple of months they’ll really deliver!
> I’ve heard that aluminum z is very good, I have a pair of superior z in my amp in bypass positions, and also on my woofers to ground, great bang-for-buck.
> The mcap supremes have a warm and yummy sound that I really do enjoy, but the Vcaps are delivering more music without the lush veil, to my ears. They just don’t seem to impose much and get out of the way if that makes sense. Fantastic caps!


Sweet!


----------



## quimbo (Aug 24, 2022)

Schiit Bifrost 2 Vs. Bifrost 2/64 – A Schiit Shootout!


----------



## KrauserX91

quimbo said:


> Schiit Bifrost 2 Vs. Bifrost 2/64 – A Schiit Shootout!


Is a review? the link is wrong pasted I think.


----------



## ssmith3046

quimbo said:


> Schiit Bifrost 2 Vs. Bifrost 2/64 – A Schiit Shootout!


I can't access it.


----------



## quimbo

sorry, try this Link original post updated as well


----------



## Luckyleo

quimbo said:


> Schiit Bifrost 2 Vs. Bifrost 2/64 – A Schiit Shootout!


Nice review!  Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

Leo


----------



## quimbo

Luckyleo said:


> Nice review!  Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.
> 
> Leo


not my review, someone posted the link on the FaceBook page for group Schiit Heads, just passing it on


----------



## automojo

Wow!
What a Schitt Show!


----------



## theeclone

quimbo said:


> Schiit Bifrost 2 Vs. Bifrost 2/64 – A Schiit Shootout!


FTA: "If I were to interject my own opinion to the mix here, I would offer up just a small smidge of advice that might provide some comfort to new buyers of the Bifrost 2/64. More detail over fullness is best sought at the digital input level. If you would like more thickness in the tonality, play with that variable at the amp or transducer level for fine tuning. Once it is in the chain, it is much harder to try to work it out than in."


This 💯. I think part of why I like the new card so much is that my system already adds a lot of fullness, partly since I'm always listening thru a lyr 3 in high gain mode.


----------



## cgb3 (Aug 24, 2022)

theeclone said:


> FTA: "If I were to interject my own opinion to the mix here, I would offer up just a small smidge of advice that might provide some comfort to new buyers of the Bifrost 2/64. More detail over fullness is best sought at the digital input level. If you would like more thickness in the tonality, play with that variable at the amp or transducer level for fine tuning. Once it is in the chain, it is much harder to try to work it out than in."
> 
> 
> This 💯. I think part of why I like the new card so much is that my system already adds a lot of fullness, partly since I'm always listening thru a lyr 3 in high gain mode.


Is my new Bifrost 2/64 card, or my discovery of "exclusive mode" powering my current delight in my music?

I have no care in discovery. If it works (and well), don't try to fix it, or find the answer.


----------



## Ripper2860

Wow.  So, I guess the Yggy LIM is grainy and a tad smeared.  Good thing I bought the BF2/64 upgrade as it seems that my disappointment will come at a much lower cost.  


Just kidding, folks.  Looking forward to hearing the level of synergy it has with my 2-channel rig.


----------



## automojo (Aug 24, 2022)

It’s a cool review but seems a bit incomplete or is it just me?
Graininess I mean let’s face it it can be really system AND source dependent.
From what I’ve read so far


----------



## Mike-WI

automojo said:


> It’s a cool review but seems a bit incomplete or is it just me?
> Graininess I mean let’s face it it can be really system AND source dependent.
> From what I’ve read so far is
> 
> ...


If you are talking about:
https://audio-head.com/schiit-bifrost-2-vs-bifrost-2-64-a-schiit-shootout/

...then it just the collected impression of a bunch of people -- albeit with A/B testing.


----------



## Ripper2860

automojo said:


> It’s a cool review but seems a bit incomplete or is it just me?
> Graininess I mean let’s face it it can be really system AND source dependent.
> From what I’ve read so far is
> 
> ...


I don't have either, although the BF2/64 card is ordered.  The A/B test article states that BF2/64 is very similar in design to the Yggy LIM,  and it says some testers stated that BF2/64 was a bit grainy and smeared.  Using the transitive law of audio, I applied the same opinions to Yggy LIM card since it shares a similar architecture.

** I was kidding.  My comment was tongue-in-cheek.


----------



## BShaw (Aug 24, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> I don't have either, although the BF2/64 card is ordered.  The A/B test article states that BF2/64 is very similar in design to the Yggy LIM,  and it says some testers stated that BF2/64 was a bit grainy and smeared.  Using the transitive law of audio, I applied the same opinions to Yggy LIM card since it shares a similar architecture.
> 
> ** I was kidding.  My comment was tongue-in-cheek.


I thought he was referring to the OG as "slightly smeared", maybe I read it wrong?

Edit -  ja, here's the paragraph:
Listeners described the overall difference between the two digital feeds as both subtle and offering only a very slight change in tone, like “the difference between a Gala or a Fuji apple”. While the sound of the original Bifrost 2 was articulated as more “full” or warmer, many people described it as just a little less crisp, and perhaps a little more smeared compared to the Bifrost 2/64.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 24, 2022)

BShaw said:


> I thought he was referring to the OG as "slightly smeared", maybe I read it wrong?
> 
> Edit -  ja, here's the paragraph:
> Listeners described the overall difference between the two digital feeds as both subtle and offering only a very slight change in tone, like “the difference between a Gala or a Fuji apple”. While the sound of the original Bifrost 2 was articulated as more “full” or warmer, many people described it as just a little less crisp, and perhaps a little more smeared compared to the Bifrost 2/64.


Yes.  My point was that my level of disappointment in comparing the new card to OG would be far less financially devestating than if I'd bought an Yggy LIM and compared it to my OG BF2 only to find out the BF2 OG was less grainy and smeared .**

** Like my dad would say - if ya gotta explain the joke it wasn't funny.  😒


----------



## automojo

Ripper2860 said:


> I don't have either, although the BF2/64 card is ordered.  The A/B test article states that BF2/64 is very similar in design to the Yggy LIM,  and it says some testers stated that BF2/64 was a bit grainy and smeared.  Using the transitive law of audio, I applied the same opinions to Yggy LIM card since it shares a similar architecture.
> 
> ** I was kidding.  My comment was tongue-in-cheek.


Gottcha-NP


----------



## cgb3

BShaw said:


> I thought he was referring to the OG as "slightly smeared", maybe I read it wrong?
> 
> Edit -  ja, here's the paragraph:
> Listeners described the overall difference between the two digital feeds as both subtle and offering only a very slight change in tone, like “the difference between a Gala or a Fuji apple”. While the sound of the original Bifrost 2 was articulated as more “full” or warmer, many people described it as just a little less crisp, and perhaps a little more smeared compared to the Bifrost 2/64.


I'm suspect of any "listeners" opinions who haven't spent some amount of time with the equipment.

Personally, I don't form (firm) opinions without at least 5 days (at least 2 hrs. per day).

There's also the dual question of ears and equipment.

I've spent years listening to pretty good audio equipment. Not top notch, but pretty good. My current main rig consists of the Bifrost 2/64>Jotumheim 2/Lyr 3 (Lyr 3 acting as preamp)>Senn. HD 850s/HiFiman Arya v2 (I have more phones, but these 2 are 99% for me).

Ears: I'm on the back 9 of my life. That said, my ears are still very good. Hearing test biannually. The main thing, I have trained ears. I can identify low range, mid range, high range. I'm a former (school) musician. I know from where and how instruments should sound.

I'm not a perfect equipment reviewer, but I may know a thing or 2 more than the casual attendee who saddles up for a listen, and then lends his opinion.


----------



## regaet

Ripper2860 said:


> I don't have either, although the BF2/64 card is ordered.  The A/B test article states that BF2/64 is very similar in design to the Yggy LIM,  and it says some testers stated that BF2/64 was a bit grainy and smeared.  Using the transitive law of audio, I applied the same opinions to Yggy LIM card since it shares a similar architecture.
> 
> ** I was kidding.  My comment was tongue-in-cheek.


Well, you got a chuckle out of me, I'm looking forward to your impressions of the upgrade. I don't think you'll be disappointed at all. I was unsure at first but after 36 hours it has continued to fluctuate but improve and after a couple of weeks, I am very pleased with the upgrade and think it is worth every penny and more.


----------



## automojo (Aug 24, 2022)

theveterans said:


> It would depend on the your preferred music and how badly mastered the tracks are. If you're listening to well mastered jazz/classical/rarely well mastered electronic music (e.g. daftpunk), I find Chord DACs rewarding sounding while I get a more engaging sound from BF2 from most music that I listen to since they're either mastered brightly (some 80's music, the cure, billy idol) or compressed to oblivion (modern pop/rock/jpop/kpop etc like RHCP, twentyonepilots, etc)


I think you really pointed out the reason many of us find  the OG BF2 such a awesome and musical DAC.
Guy's like my self-listen to alot of XM radio-(running a Polk tuner thorough the BF/2)-Amazon Music and the like-You Tube-I Heart-and cd's last for the most part.
Not 'perfect" sources.
It really improves your listening enjoyment immensely, even with sketchy sources.
Myself-could not wrap my ears around the original BF MB-nor the Modi MB. But love the Modi 3+, and run a old Sony CD changer through it in my 1/2 of my 1.5 system.
With the BF2, the 'classic' MB sound of the affordable DAC's-became more then listenable.
Colored? Maybe.
Maybe a bit of the 'ripe' NOS/TDA sound.
But what component isn't colored if want to be honest.
Smearing/timing issues/space/depth.
I think if a change makes you listen less to your system-it clearly wasn't a upgrade-the whole point-the end game-is musical enjoyment-not the gear.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> I think you really pointed out the reason many of us find  the OG BF2 such a awesome and musical DAC.
> Guy's like my self-listen to alot of XM radio-(running a Polk tuner thorough the BF/2)-Amazon Music and the like-You Tube-I Heart-and cd's last for the most part.
> Not 'perfect" sources.
> It really improves your listening enjoyment immensely, even with sketchy sources.
> ...



Agreed. You know you got the system that's best for your needs if it keeps pulling you in and you're being forced to listen to one more song, one more album, and it's already past 12am. Still couldn't fathom that we can have that kind of system without spending a college savings plan these days


----------



## bmanone

What about the guys that are still running the original Bifrost Multibit with Unison, does anyone have a comparison between it and the new Bifrost 2/64?


----------



## automojo

Isn't it amazing? Mine is a mix of vintage and modern new used, and in between.
Besides settling in ESS and Infinity Emits, my biggest and best change was getting a  Van Alstine Transcendence tube preamp.
everything I’ve been trying to do finally came in to focus synergistically and musically.
Clearly my choices of preamps were holding my system back.
Good sounding, powerful amplifiers  are plentiful and easy to find (H/K amp fan here)) IMHO
Preamps, not so much.


----------



## automojo (Aug 25, 2022)

bmanone said:


> What about the guys that are still running the original Bifrost Multibit with Unison, does anyone have a comparison between it and the new Bifrost 2/64?


Sure.
The original BF MB-even with a newer USB card-at least IMHO-isn't close to the BF2.
The original BF MB to me-was more or less a Modi MB.
Unison is much better-no need to isolate the 5 volt power
To me-the OG BF2 was what I imagined a good Schiit MB DAC should sound like.
Make all your digital music organic/analog and enjoyable.
Not perfect but enjoyable.
SO you get listen to music-forget about your system/dac fiddleing.
Thats what the OF BF2 did to my system.
Decent transducers can extract the last bits of details-IMHO.


----------



## automojo

bmanone said:


> What about the guys that are still running the original Bifrost Multibit with Unison, does anyone have a comparison between it and the new Bifros


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Isn't it amazing? Mine is a mix of vintage and modern new used, and in between.
> Besides settling in ESS and Infinity Emits, my biggest and best change was getting a  Van Alstine Transcendence tube preamp.
> everything I’ve been trying to do finally came in to focus synergistically and musically.
> Clearly my choices of preamps were holding my system back.
> ...



I also run the Schiit Saga OG to my nearfield speakers and I certainly feel that I’m truly not holding back Bifrost 2. For my headphone amp, I use the Forge 32/300 ohm, and that tube amp made me realize that BF2 with even the OG card is revealing even more “plankton” than I ever thought it could


----------



## FellowTraveller

Ripper2860 said:


> I don't have either, although the BF2/64 card is ordered.  The A/B test article states that BF2/64 is very similar in design to the Yggy LIM,  and it says some testers stated that BF2/64 was a bit grainy and smeared.  Using the transitive law of audio, I applied the same opinions to Yggy LIM card since it shares a similar architecture.
> 
> ** I was kidding.  My comment was tongue-in-cheek.


I too have ordered the BF2/64 card


Ripper2860 said:


> Wow.  So, I guess the Yggy LIM is grainy and a tad smeared.  Good thing I bought the BF2/64 upgrade as it seems that my disappointment will come at a much lower cost.
> 
> 
> Just kidding, folks.  Looking forward to hearing the level of synergy it has with my 2-channel rig.


I too have ordered the BF2/64 and look forward to hearing it myself. I do understand that you were writing tongue in cheek here. But just in case some readers get the wrong idea about BF 2/64, the "more grain" comment in this review was about BF 2/64, while the "perhaps a little more smeared" comment was about the OG BF2 when comparing it with 2/64.


----------



## automojo

I had a card ordered-but canceled.
I got caught up in the upgrade fevor-but then recalled  my dac search before the OGBF2.
And my experiences with earlier Schiit MB's
And recalling why I like the OG BF2 so much.
Frankly I had forgotten-because it's all about the music with my current system synergy.
I have other things on my mind-not upgrading my system.
Except for a recap of my RSiiia's-I'm pretty much good.
Yes there are much better components then what I currently have.
But plugging one in won't make anything better-and most certainly would require some other changes to compliment
AT this point I'm fine


----------



## automojo (Aug 25, 2022)

Edit-plugging the new card-probably would be better-more resolution etc-but not ideal with my current system, with out some requisite changes 
Great Heils and Emit's don't hide much.

I take Schiit word when they say it is better-it's a positive progression from the OG.
Many look for spec's-and this version has it.
Nothing wrong with that-IMHO.

Schiit needs to do what they see fit for their company.
As they should be able to with out hassle.
I'm just happy they made the OGBF2


----------



## KrauserX91

I also canceled the card as I like the current MB experience and I was thinking on buy the Gungnir instead as an upgrade because seems it will vanish soon due they cannot get the chips anymore.


----------



## twigfarm

KrauserX91 said:


> I also canceled the card as I like the current MB experience and I was thinking on buy the Gungnir instead as an upgrade because seems it will vanish soon due they cannot get the chips anymore.


Yup!  Me too. And then selling my Bifrost 2.  But if I DO buy a Gungnir, it will probably be used.  Based on what I've read I think any generation of the MB version would be an upgrade.


----------



## theeclone

twigfarm said:


> Yup!  Me too. And then selling my Bifrost 2.  But if I DO buy a Gungnir, it will probably be used.  Based on what I've read I think any generation of the MB version would be an upgrade.


Some ppl think the bass isn't quite controlled enough on the gumby. I actually had but sold it after getting the BF2. In fairness, I never heard the gumby with unison usb. At the time it didn't exist for the gumby. But once I heard the BF2 with Unison I felt I genuinely had an upgrade at that point.


----------



## KrauserX91

theeclone said:


> Some ppl think the bass isn't quite controlled enough on the gumby. I actually had but sold it after getting the BF2. In fairness, I never heard the gumby with unison usb. At the time it didn't exist for the gumby. But once I heard the BF2 with Unison I felt I genuinely had an upgrade at that point.


I will get it and do comparisons. Does the unison really makes magic? I thought it was just to get a cleaner sound that is unnoticeable unless you start to do A/B comparisons


----------



## automojo

KrauserX91 said:


> I also canceled the card as I like the current MB experience and I was thinking on buy the Gungnir instead as an upgrade because seems it will vanish soon due they cannot get the chips anymore.





twigfarm said:


> Yup!  Me too. And then selling my Bifrost 2.  But if I DO buy a Gungnir, it will probably be used.  Based on what I've read I think any generation of the MB version would be an upgrade.


From what I recall the Gungnir MB and BF2 OG are fairly close.


----------



## automojo (Aug 25, 2022)

If your looking for something-used-different-but close-maybe a Chord 2Qute.
Not trying to Schiit on Schiit.
But those who really like the OG BF2-and the Modi3+...you will like this dac. Alot
Like the BF2-everything you play through it sounds awesome.
They can be had for less then $500.


----------



## KrauserX91

Hard decision , I stick with BF2 OG, the difference is not worth, is so close like you say reading comparisons. Maybe better to wait what new thing has schiit under the rug.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

automojo said:


> From what I recall the Gungnir MB and BF2 OG are fairly close.



Depends on how you define close. I have a Gungnir MB A1 (early version Gungnir MB) and I prefer it to my Bifrost 2. The Gungnir has more resolution in the sense that I can hear further into the recording and a more fleshed out midrange that pairs better with some of my amps like the Liquid Gold X. The Gungnir is enough better that I would consider the difference in cost to get a Gungnir instead of a Bifrost 2 to be worth it. But other people with different gear and different headphones might not notice as much or care as much about such differences.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0

KrauserX91 said:


> Hard decision , I stick with BF2 OG, the difference is not worth, is so close like you say reading comparisons. Maybe better to wait what new thing has schiit under the rug.



You don’t want Schiit from under the rug. And what is this Schiit smear everyone is talking about? Never heard it.


----------



## theeclone

KrauserX91 said:


> I will get it and do comparisons. Does the unison really makes magic? I thought it was just to get a cleaner sound that is unnoticeable unless you start to do A/B comparisons


Unison was huge for me. USB is typically a pretty terrible way to move audio around, and Unison kind of solves that problem as well as it can be solved. When Unison came out, I believe Mike Moffat said he preferred it to spdif or aes.

Jitter is the enemy!


----------



## theveterans

KrauserX91 said:


> I will get it and do comparisons. Does the unison really makes magic? I thought it was just to get a cleaner sound that is unnoticeable unless you start to do A/B comparisons





theeclone said:


> Unison was huge for me. USB is typically a pretty terrible way to move audio around, and Unison kind of solves that problem as well as it can be solved. When Unison came out, I believe Mike Moffat said he preferred it to spdif or aes.
> 
> Jitter is the enemy!



I believe I wrote about reclocking mechanism here before, but only Gungnir MB (used to have VXCO but only VCO now) and Yggdrasil (VXCO) have a reclocker inside that's active across all inputs. Bifrost and lower models rely on the wordclock of the incoming stream on all inputs. Unison has a much better reclocker than Gen5 USB while the SPDIF inputs on BF2 relies on the upstream jitter quality. Back during the Bifrost 1 MB days, people always recommend the coax out due to the clock source of the CD transports or Raspberry Pi2AES were fantastic while the Gen2 USB reclocker is clearly inferior. Unison pretty much elimated that gap hence all inputs are good with BF2. With higher Schiit DACs you get a high quality VXCO reclocker for a more consistent low jitter performance. The basis for the ultra-high end R2R DACs is pretty much this femto-clock principle right next to the ladder DAC modules for best performance and most resolute sound possible.


----------



## nishan99

theveterans said:


> The basis for the ultra-high end R2R DACs is pretty much this femto-clock principle right next to the ladder DAC modules for best performance and most resolute sound possible.


Plus the more robust and sophisticated power supply on each price point spike.


----------



## automojo

Ham Sandwich said:


> Depends on how you define close. I have a Gungnir MB A1 (early version Gungnir MB) and I prefer it to my Bifrost 2. The Gungnir has more resolution in the sense that I can hear further into the recording and a more fleshed out midrange that pairs better with some of my amps like the Liquid Gold X. The Gungnir is enough better that I would consider the difference in cost to get a Gungnir instead of a Bifrost 2 to be worth it. But other people with different gear and different headphones might not notice as much or care as much about such differences.


Thanks I appreciate that
I had borrowed one similar to that in my system but it didn’t have the latest USB.
And your conclusions now that I recall (roughly) seem similar.
I liked it a lot at the time I wasn’t ready to shell out $1200.. not that I couldn’t afford it just one of those things.
But when I demoed the BF2, at the time I it had a very similar qualities, very unlike the BF1qualities-at what seem like a bargain price so I bought it, seem like a complete no-brainer at the price.
Frankly I couldn’t tell you if it was worth the extra amount in my system or not because I have an a/b the two.
But I’ll certainly take your word for it
Thanks for the clarification


----------



## cgb3

KrauserX91 said:


> I also canceled the card as I like the current MB experience and I was thinking on buy the Gungnir instead as an upgrade because seems it will vanish soon due they cannot get the chips anymore.


I suspect the Gungnir will "vanish", not for lack of chips, but lack of buyers.

The Bifrost 2/64 supplants the Gungnir in most respects. Maybe Schiit creates a new upper mid-range, full format DAC. I suspect not.

It makes sense to me to offer various levels, and prices for an Yggdrasil variant.


----------



## automojo

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-bifrost-2.8226/page-48#post-335230


----------



## theeclone

automojo said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-bifrost-2.8226/page-48#post-335230


And that was just the OG BF2! A lot of what he comments on, in my opinion the 2/64 does even better, e.g. bass quality (detail? texture?), etc.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-bifrost-2.8226/page-48#post-335230



That comment about vocals, it's pretty much confirming why I really love the marriage between BF2 and tubes! I also experience the same thing with the poster.


----------



## omniweltall

Bifrost 2 and tubes really do make a special listening treat. The mids...ahhh.


----------



## KrauserX91 (Aug 26, 2022)

So, for the moment I stick with BF2 OG 

I really dont trust on all R2R expensive dacs that needs hours to warm before get optimal and be 24/7 on, some of them with sound delays problem on gaming, like Denafrips or Holo Audio so expensive I dont think the sound improvements justify the price. For this I like Schiit, their DACs just work and they do streaming while drinking wine. Lets see what they bring us in a future.

Maybe I should save for a SS  instead as I am playing with the tube Amp and probably I am wasting the tubes lifetime.


----------



## jclyle

If you've ordered the 2/64 upgrade card in the last few days, have you received a shipment notification?
Schiit.com shows 10-12 week shipping timeframe.

New 2/64 models are in stock for shipping. I can't decide if I should wait for a card upgrade, or just buy a new one and sell my OG BF2.


----------



## nishan99

jclyle said:


> If you've ordered the 2/64 upgrade card in the last few days, have you received a shipment notification?
> Schiit.com shows 10-12 week shipping timeframe.
> 
> New 2/64 models are in stock for shipping. I can't decide if I should wait for a card upgrade, or just buy a new one and sell my OG BF2.


Iirc they both ship in days, they just forgot to update the upgrade page.


----------



## TheTechQ

jclyle said:


> If you've ordered the 2/64 upgrade card in the last few days, have you received a shipment notification?
> Schiit.com shows 10-12 week shipping timeframe.
> 
> New 2/64 models are in stock for shipping. I can't decide if I should wait for a card upgrade, or just buy a new one and sell my OG BF2.


I placed an order for the upgrade card on 8/22 and have not received a shipment notification. On 8/23 I got an email restating the 10-12 weeks ship time. That's cool. I love the sound of the original Bifrost 2 and am in no hurry given that Schiit doesn't keep your money until they ship a product. Knowing that there will be a box of Schiit arriving some time is a happy surprise. @Jason Stoddard could make a program: Make a Schiit list and get Schiit delivered when they have inventory...


----------



## automojo (Aug 26, 2022)

KrauserX91 said:


> So, for the moment I stick with BF2 OG
> 
> I really dont trust on all R2R expensive dacs that needs hours to warm before get optimal and be 24/7 on, some of them with sound delays problem on gaming, like Denafrips or Holo Audio so expensive I dont think the sound improvements justify the price. For this I like Schiit, their DACs just work and they do streaming while drinking wine. Lets see what they bring us in a future.
> 
> Maybe I should save for a SS  instead as I am playing with the tube Amp and probably I am wasting the tubes lifetime.


I know I mentioned this before… if you’re looking to experiment for a little bit different sound…on a similar path… look out for a Chord 2quet.
They both have the same uncanny ability to make less than ideal digital music song more than listenable.
Pretty cool stuf IMHO.
I know this is a Schiit thread..not trying to throw Schiit on Schiit.
I think the loyalty to Schiit products is awesome
I feel the same thing with just 2 products.
And I thoroughly enjoyed the book  “Schiit Happened”.
Highly recommended reading.
Even if you’re not a small business man like myself.

You can kinda see it on the surface in this thread people are torn between the new board and the OG BF2.
Nothing wrong with that, and it’s a pretty awesome thing for many perspectives including Schiit’s.
But sometimes loyalty can be misguided…ha!! ( just ask my ex wife!!!!)
Kidding….
At least when it comes to a change/upgrade in a model/product line.
An evolution of a product doesnt mean each step is what you need.
A spouse… well you can figure that out!! 
It’s all good stuff!!


----------



## automojo

theveterans said:


> That comment about vocals, it's pretty much confirming why I really love the marriage between BF2 and tubes! I also experience the same thing with the poster.


Curious what tube set up are you referring to in your case?
Myself  Van Alstine Transcendence 10RB
H/K amps-PA2400& Sig 1.5.
Heck Franks place us down road 10 miles… 
Kind of like Schiit is becoming- a legend in  audio (IMHO).
Another preamp I would certainly recommend if you can find one
For those that don’t really like the thought of tubes a Proton  AP1000.
In many ways it reminds me of the 10RB
It’s not tubey sounding- it just sounds damn good!


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Curious what tube set up are you referring to in your case?
> Myself  Van Alstine Transcendence 10RB
> H/K amps-PA2400& Sig 1.5.
> Heck Franks place us down road 10 miles…
> ...



I’m primary a headphone guy so I like the tube headphone amps that leans slightly to more technical sound with a small tube euphony in the tone (that doesn't overpower the DAC's signature) as well as compatibility with efficient planars and high impedance headphones. My goal is to find a reasonably priced amp without breaking the bank (on tube selection as well). After demoing some tube amps, I settled with the ampsandsound Forge 32/300 ohm configuration (solid-state rectifier and KT88/6SL7) and it IMHO it brings the best out of my AKG K712 headphones and DCA Aeon X Open without sounding overly tubey and rolled-off in the treble. If you go to CanJam SoCal, you can demo their Red October amp to get an idea of their product's sound signature


----------



## automojo (Aug 26, 2022)

theveterans said:


> I’m primary a headphone guy so I like the tube headphone amps that leans slightly to more technical sound with a small tube euphony in the tone (that doesn't overpower the DAC's signature) as well as compatibility with efficient planars and high impedance headphones. My goal is to find a reasonably priced amp without breaking the bank (on tube selection as well). After demoing some tube amps, I settled with the ampsandsound Forge 32/300 ohm configuration (solid-state rectifier and KT88/6SL7) and it IMHO it brings the best out of my AKG K712 headphones and DCA Aeon X Open without sounding overly tubey and rolled-off in the treble. If you go to CanJam SoCal, you can demo their Red October amp to get an idea of their product's sound signature


Interesting!
Myself primarily speakers-the headphones days where in the 70's when I was a kid-Koss ProAAA to keep my parents/sisters happy late night.
 Man I used to love DXing my hopped up tube  tuner and homemade antennas @ late nights. The Koss came in handy-as the Wharfedale was a bit too loud!!
That was my music education-still dig most generes. Although props to local legend dj Freddie Bell...
I like this site as people are pleasant , knowledgeable, and like to learn it seems. SBAF is pretty cool as well, and A/K-but has some characters for sure. It's all good!


----------



## Ripper2860

10-12 weeks ETA when I ordered the BF2/64 upgrade card on 8/13?  I think not!!  I just received a shipping confirmation. Talk about under-promising and over-delivering!!


----------



## automojo (Aug 26, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> 10-12 weeks ETA when I ordered the BF2/64 upgrade card on 8/13?  I think not!!  I just received a shipping confirmation. Talk about under-promising and over-delivering!!


As I recall, I read that ‘saying’ in some Schiity  book…


----------



## XylefMTG

General PSA. Ordered 8/5 and got a shipping notice 8/26.

Have a good week-end!


----------



## Neweymatt

automojo said:


> I know I mentioned this before… if you’re looking to experiment for a little bit different sound…on a similar path… look out for a Chord 2quet.


You mean like the Qutest, right?  I've been curious about those for a while, and I think it would probably be a good complement to the BF2.  
But Chord's pricing is putting me off a little bit, and since getting my BF2 I've spent those $$ building out my headphone and IEM collection instead.  Maybe on that magical day when I say 'enough' to new headphones/IEMs I'll look for a second-hand qutest


----------



## Btarr

Ripper2860 said:


> 10-12 weeks ETA when I ordered the BF2/64 upgrade card on 8/13?  I think not!!  I just received a shipping confirmation. Talk about under-promising and over-delivering!!


This is what I’ve experience EVERY TIME I order from Schiit. Every time.


----------



## automojo

Neweymatt said:


> You mean like the Qutest, right?  I've been curious about those for a while, and I think it would probably be a good complement to the BF2.
> But Chord's pricing is putting me off a little bit, and since getting my BF2 I've spent those $$ building out my headphone and IEM collection instead.  Maybe on that magical day when I say 'enough' to new headphones/IEMs I'll look for a second-hand qutest


Yep-I agree the OG BF2 offers above and beyond excellent value for the sound produced.
At least with this 2Qute of mine-it was well worth the $300.
https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/2qute


----------



## The Hawk

jclyle said:


> If you've ordered the 2/64 upgrade card in the last few days, have you received a shipment notification?
> Schiit.com shows 10-12 week shipping timeframe.
> 
> New 2/64 models are in stock for shipping. I can't decide if I should wait for a card upgrade, or just buy a new one and sell my OG BF2.


I didn’t order the upgrade card but I did order a Bifrost 2/64 this morning. I got a ship notification and tracking number about 4 hrs later 👍🏼


----------



## cgb3

To those waiting for your 64 card. Anticipate. The happiest times are waiting for a thing. It's never the reality of the thing, but the anticipation of the thing.

In this case, the 64 card wait is worth it.


----------



## TheTechQ

cgb3 said:


> To those waiting for your 64 card. Anticipate. The happiest times are waiting for a thing. It's never the reality of the thing, but the anticipation of the thing.
> 
> In this case, the 64 card wait is worth it.


That’s the plan. I like waiting for Schiit.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Aug 27, 2022)

Have a setup using either the topping M50 or the SMSL SD-9 as a source… FLAC music library is on a SSD drive .. DAC’s being used Schiit Bifrost 2/64, SMSL DO200 and Topping D70s … balanced into a Schiit Lokius .. balanced into a Rotel RA-1572 MKII … speakers Wharfedale Diamond 225 & Aperion MKII Planar—Magnetic Ribbon Super Tweeters … older version of SVS SB-1000 without separate tuning app

I’m trying to figure out which DAC and digital input to use???

So far I’m leaning towards the I2S from M50 into D70s and I2S from SD-9 into DO200

At least to my ears

I tried using USB into Bifrost but SQ just seems better using I2S on the other DACs


----------



## theveterans

I think you found your own preferred sound signature which is delta sigma preference! That’s a good thing since it’ll you from chasing DACs


----------



## automojo (Aug 27, 2022)

theveterans said:


> I think you found your own preferred sound signature which is delta sigma preference! That’s a good thing since it’ll you from chasing DACs


That may be- for myself why I like the BF2… to me… it doesn’t have that typical signature Schiit MB sound.
Frankly I’ve been enjoying it as well as the Modi 3+, and now a Chord 2Qute  ( all 3  in a 1.5 system) so much… when I heard about the upgrade, I neglected to think about my journey getting there at first.
And that’s not meant to take anything away from the MB’s.
Frankly to tell you the truth I could be completely happy with that Modi 3+…
And I have a very revealing system with heavily modded ESS AMT3’s with Great Heils, and soon to be modded/ recapped original pair of Infinity RSiiia’s with Emits.
The synergy of the Modi( as well as the other 2) is amazing IMHO.
A $90 DAC.
Pretty cool stuff!
To me that says a lot about the humble Modi- as well as Schiit
Its probably wise to get a handle on what you prefer, DS, MB- NOS, if you’re trying to save any type of hassle as well as $.
If its part of the hobby for you and that doesn’t bother you I’d say have a it!!.
To me the strengths of the MB , are textures, layering  rhythm/drive and a solid image.


----------



## XylefMTG (Aug 29, 2022)

Wow. This Schiit (sorry) gets better after burn-in?!

Not great at describing sound, but what I'm hearing is much more detail. Everything has more impact. Female vocals are much softer. Not detecting a big difference in sound stage, but instrument separation is more defined. I can hear where bass notes begin and end where I normally can't (if that makes any sense). Drums sound HUGE now. Kind of like the old BF2 was a little under water in comparison. Hope that's in some way helpful to anyone who is undecided.

Awesome. I was a little worried if the upgrade would be worth it. So glad I took the BF2/64 leap. Won't be going back. An instant and noticeable upgrade. I'm pretty pleased.

Amp is Burson Soloist 3X
Headphones Abyss AB-1266


----------



## mekap (Aug 29, 2022)

XylefMTG said:


> Wow. This Schiit (sorry) gets better after burn-in?!
> 
> Not great at describing sound, but what I'm hearing is much more detail. Everything has more impact. Female vocals are much softer. Not detecting a big difference in sound stage, but instrument separation is more defined. I can hear where bass notes begin and end where I normally can't (if that makes any sense). Drums sound HUGE now. Kind of like the old BF2 was a little under water in comparison. Hope that's in some way helpful to anyone who is undecided.
> 
> ...


Wow, I also have a BURSON Soloist and I'm waiting for my Schiit 2/64
There were a lot of statements not in favor of 2/64, I even got worried and thought that I bought Schiit in vain, but now I see that it was not in vain.


----------



## automojo (Aug 29, 2022)

mekap said:


> Wow, I also have a BURSON Soloist and I'm waiting for my Schiit 2/64
> There were a lot of statements not in favor of 2/64, I even got worried and thought that I bought Schiit in vain, but now I see that it was not in vain.


I think you’re pointing out the prevailing trend in audio.
Not everything, including for myself, changes in a product that it’s more than satisfactory, is a step forward or a positive addition to one’s  system.
What works for one person doesn’t work for another.
If this wasn’t the case there wouldn’t be so many alternatives available on the free market.
I love Schiit products, but some times it becomes on “us against them” type of proposal.
Definitely isn’t helpful in real life nor is it in audio.
Jason and Mike have a great company-
It’s a great story and the proof is in the products -but they certainly don’t rule my audio system, or my choices.
You’re not obligated to like everything they do-it doesn’t have to change your appreciation of the company, products or its founders.
There’s lots of good information, but as it was pointed out to me a couple weeks ago you have to figure out what’s good for yourself, in your system, By relying on your own personal experiences.. along with the helpful mix of the cool reviews here.
I wouldn’t worry about the upgrade if it doesn’t work you can easily sell the board.
But please fill us in on your comparisons because all that information is great and helpful To build a database of sorts other people can use going foward.


----------



## sup27606

Those that have the new Bifrost 2/64, how does it compare with the Gumby? Do the comparison notes from the previous Bifrost 2 still hold, i.e. Gumby being more neutral, better bass texture and wider soundstage, or does the 64 upgrade bring it closer to Gumby?

Thanks!


----------



## TheFrator

XylefMTG said:


> but instrument separation is more defined. I can hear where bass notes begin and end where I normally can't (if that makes any sense). Drums sound HUGE now.


This has been my experience so far. Every piece of the drum kit are in distinct spot. Makes listening to Tool and jazz a delight. Listen to the song One Word by Mahavishnu Orchestra and enjoy my favorite drum solo.


----------



## theveterans

Currently listening to this Roon created electronic music playlist at club level SPL with BF2 on my Dan Clark Aeon Open X (no filter, no EQ). I'm thoroughly impressed with the lack of digital sound etch/fatigue without sacrificing transients or sounding blurred/smeared on the edges whereas listening to this on AKM 4499 delta sigma DAP would give me an uneasy feeling after some few minutes of loud listening sessions


----------



## cgb3

JerryLeeds said:


> Btw … I never got a SD card with my Bifrost …


Give the package another look. Schiit is pretty consistent, at being consistent.

My SD card was in a
 card case (translucent)


----------



## WaveTheory

Full review of 2/64 is up. Lots of ground to cover. Use timestamps to watch parts relevant to you:



Enjoy!


----------



## mekap

automojo said:


> I think you’re pointing out the prevailing trend in audio.
> Not everything, including for myself, changes in a product that it’s more than satisfactory, is a step forward or a positive addition to one’s  system.
> What works for one person doesn’t work for another.
> If this wasn’t the case there wouldn’t be so many alternatives available on the free market.
> ...


I can't say anything about Bifrost 2 and 2/64 because I decided to buy Bifrost 2/64 based on the reviews. I needed a DAC for my BURSON Soloist and based on the reviews I decided to buy a Schiit 2/64


----------



## automojo (Aug 30, 2022)

Awesome review!
And I think it confirmed to me, and a few  the other lite reviews have as well.
The OG BF2, in my system, is unique in character in that  that really doesn’t draw attention to itself, or it’s shortcomings..without apparent masking of detail.
Well balanced.
For myself anyhow that’s a hard thing to find in most Dacs i’ve encountered so far.
YMMV, as it’s just as much about synergy as the product itself.


----------



## Ripper2860 (Aug 30, 2022)

My quick assessment of BF2 vs BF2/64 upgrade after a 2 hour warm-up and 2 hours of listening on my 2-channel rig...

BF2/64 impressions.

1. More holographic (3D) with a tad wider soundstage and a noticeably deeper soundstage.
2. Seems FASTER.  To me attacks seems quicker and more precise, but not at the expense of decay.
3. Notably deeper bass -- not louder but more extended and with more authority in the lower registers.
4. A bit more open and airy at the top frequencies.
5. Excellent instrument placement and space.
6. More overall detail without sounding grainy or etched.
7. A higher level of PRaT that had me tapping my toe and nodding my head on tracks that while engaging never engaged me to that level.

Was it worth it?  It most definitely was for me.


----------



## quimbo

quimbo said:


> My experience has not been the best,  Swapped out cards, tried to flash and it only went thru the normal sequence when turning it on. Tried multiple times and eventually this piece that must stop card when being entered fell off
> 
> 
> I have tried getting it back in but cannot figure out how it is supposed to go.  If someone that takes the top off can let me know how it goes in, I can try but I probably still won't be able to fix it
> ...


What a fast turn around.  I sent my BiFrost from Connecticut to CA on Saturday August 20th and it just arrived back in CT on August 30th.  Put it back into my system (Allo UsBridge Sig --> BiFrost 2 --> Lokius --> Lyr 3 --> JBL 308P MkII, started a show I am very familiar with (Dead 01/26/69).  Very nice improvement at first listen.  Tonight is bocce night so i won't get a chance to really start listening until tomorrow

Kudos to Schiit (and FedEx, initial target date was Thursday 9/1)


----------



## automojo (Aug 30, 2022)

omniweltall said:


> Bifrost 2 and tubes really do make a special listening treat. The mids...ahhh.


Agreed!


----------



## Smoothstereo

Ripper2860 said:


> My quick assessment of BF2 vs BF2/64 upgrade after a 2 hour warm-up and 2 hours of listening on my 2-channel rig...
> 
> BF2/64 impressions.
> 
> ...


Nice write up. How does the BF 2/64 compare to the Gumby in balance output?


----------



## Ripper2860

Whenever I get a Gumby, I'll let you know.


----------



## TheTechQ (Aug 30, 2022)

There are silver and black Bifrost 2 units on the B-Stock page in case anyone is interested:
https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## Smoothstereo

Ripper2860 said:


> Whenever I get a Gumby, I'll let you know.


Apologies, somehow I thought you had both. I must be thinking of someone else.


----------



## carbonF1

Ripper2860 said:


> My quick assessment of BF2 vs BF2/64 upgrade after a 2 hour warm-up and 2 hours of listening on my 2-channel rig...
> 
> BF2/64 impressions.
> 
> ...



Well, dang. These were some of the reasons I sold the OG BF2. I wonder if I'll be saying I want a BF2 back once my Asgard arrives...



I'm also curious for anyone who upgraded to 2/64, any change in preference over coax or Unison USB? I remember preferring the coax a bit on the BF2 but Unison was quite good. Not sure if an analog card would make a difference on that front but thought I'd ask.


----------



## jonathan c

Ripper2860 said:


> My quick assessment of BF2 vs BF2/64 upgrade after a 2 hour warm-up and 2 hours of listening on my 2-channel rig...
> 
> BF2/64 impressions.
> 
> ...


Very informative, well done!  Did 7. apply to Captain & Tenille tracks…?😜


----------



## Ripper2860

'Muskrat Love' never sounded better.


----------



## automojo

https://headphone.guru/the-schiit-bifrost-2-review-its-the-schiit/


----------



## Mike-WI

automojo said:


> https://headphone.guru/the-schiit-bifrost-2-review-its-the-schiit/


November 18, 2019


----------



## automojo (Aug 30, 2022)

Mike-WI said:


> November 18, 2019


Yep
The BF2 OG has not  changed….
Unless of course you decide to do the aforementioned upgrade card.
I posted it as a point of reference


----------



## mekap (Aug 31, 2022)

carbonF1 said:


> I'm also curious for anyone who upgraded to 2/64, any change in preference over coax or Unison USB? I remember preferring the coax a bit on the BF2 but Unison was quite good. Not sure if an analog card would make a difference on that front but thought I'd ask.


I would like to join the question and ask. Does it make sense to connect Bifrost via WIREWORLD SUPERNOVA 7 GLASS TOSLINK OPTICAL DIGITAL CABLE? Will the sound quality be good?

https://www.theaudiolegacy.com/collections/audio-cable/products/wireworld-supernova-7-toslink-cable


----------



## automojo

mekap said:


> I would like to join the question and ask. Does it make sense to connect Bifrost via WIREWORLD SUPERNOVA 7 GLASS TOSLINK OPTICAL DIGITAL CABLE? Will the sound quality be good?
> 
> https://www.theaudiolegacy.com/collections/audio-cable/products/wireworld-supernova-7-toslink-cable


Sure, why not?
Wireworld makes excellent products that make a positive difference.
I use their interconnects and USB cables with excellent results.
At some point I may swap out my Pangea Toslink for a Wireworld.
It’s between a Polk XM tuner and  my BF2 OG ( or Chord DAC).. which ever in rotation.


----------



## theveterans

mekap said:


> I would like to join the question and ask. Does it make sense to connect Bifrost via WIREWORLD SUPERNOVA 7 GLASS TOSLINK OPTICAL DIGITAL CABLE? Will the sound quality be good?
> 
> https://www.theaudiolegacy.com/collections/audio-cable/products/wireworld-supernova-7-toslink-cable



I use that exact optical cable from my DAP/source to BF2


----------



## twigfarm

mekap said:


> I would like to join the question and ask. Does it make sense to connect Bifrost via WIREWORLD SUPERNOVA 7 GLASS TOSLINK OPTICAL DIGITAL CABLE? Will the sound quality be good?
> 
> https://www.theaudiolegacy.com/collections/audio-cable/products/wireworld-supernova-7-toslink-cable


Anyone know how the WireWorld toslink compares to more "budget-priced" toslink cables, like the DH Labs Silver Sonic, JIB Boacoustic or even the Lifatec?  Any thoughts on any of those or others?  I'm getting in another CDT that has to go to my Bifrost via toslink and $260 for the length I'd need is a little "dear" right now.


----------



## automojo

theveterans said:


> I use that exact optical cable from my DAP/source to BF2





twigfarm said:


> Anyone know how the WireWorld toslink compares to more "budget-priced" toslink cables, like the DH Labs Silver Sonic, JIB Boacoustic or even the Lifatec?  Any thoughts on any of those or others?  I'm getting in another CDT that has to go to my Bifrost via toslink and $260 for the length I'd need is a little "dear" right now.


A lot of retailers have a 30 day or so return policy you could try a budget one and try one of those if you didn’t like it all you’re out is probably shipping.
I think there’s probably something to be said for having a true glass conductor.
Some like analysis plus use a medical grade type fiber.


----------



## mekap

twigfarm said:


> Anyone know how the WireWorld toslink compares to more "budget-priced" toslink cables, like the DH Labs Silver Sonic, JIB Boacoustic or even the Lifatec?  Any thoughts on any of those or others?  I'm getting in another CDT that has to go to my Bifrost via toslink and $260 for the length I'd need is a little "dear" right now.


I read that WireWorld uses borosilicate glass in its cable with many individual strands and a glass magnifier that is located at the ends of the cable has a high-quality polish. There is an opinion of some people who doubt the quality of the decoder that converts light into an electrical impulse in the Schiit itself and the source. That's what my question was, not about the quality of the WireWorld cable.


----------



## Btarr

omniweltall said:


> Bifrost 2 and tubes really do make a special listening treat. The mids...ahhh.


Just added the Freya+ to my BF 2/64, and YES WOW.


----------



## automojo (Aug 31, 2022)

mekap said:


> I read that WireWorld uses borosilicate glass in its cable with many individual strands and a glass magnifier that is located at the ends of the cable has a high-quality polish. There is an opinion of some people who doubt the quality of the decoder that converts light into an electrical impulse in the Schiit itself and the source. That's what my question was, not about the quality of the WireWorld cable.


Well I couldn’t tell you about the quality of the decoder
What I do know is that it works very well within its capability and sounds excellent
That probably should be directed towards Schiit IMHO.
Maybe someone knows the converter type?
From what I know it’s a pretty well known concept I imagine Schiit  isn’t going to short change the optical decoder to save a few cents, but I don’t know for sure
The issue that I always heard about was the transmission issues through the cable
The good news you don’t have to worry about interference so much from the cable
And frankly you didn’t specify any information about the quality of the decoder in the Schiit  in original post-that would’ve been helpful… myself I never heard about any issues with the quality of the decoder in the Scihiit.
Maybe I’m not in the know…


----------



## mekap (Aug 31, 2022)

automojo said:


> Well I couldn’t tell you about the quality of the decoder
> What I do know is that it works very well within its capability and sounds excellent
> That probably should be directed towards Schiit IMHO.
> Maybe someone knows the converter type?
> ...


unfortunately, I don’t know anything what kind of decoder it is and whether it is of high quality or not, I just wrote that I heard that it depends on the decoder whether the light is converted into an electrical signal well. It is likely that expensive DACs use such high-quality decoders, and it is possible that they are all on the same level, I do not know this, so I asked about it.

I'll reformulate my question. Is it worth buying a cable for $200+, or is it better to buy a cable for less than $50+(https://www.sysconcept.ca/index.php) if the decoder is the same everywhere?


what affects the signal quality more cable or decoder?


----------



## automojo (Aug 31, 2022)

mekap said:


> unfortunately, I don’t know anything what kind of decoder it is and whether it is of high quality or not, I just wrote that I heard that it depends on the decoder whether the light is converted into an electrical signal well. It is likely that expensive DACs use such high-quality decoders, and it is possible that they are all on the same level, I do not know this, so I asked about it.
> 
> I'll reformulate my question. Is it worth buying a cable for $200+, or is it better to buy a cable for less than $50+ if the decoder is the same everywhere?
> 
> what affects the signal quality more cable or decoder?


Sure.. makes sense
I’m going to defer cause I don’t have enough experience with optical cables …
But if it was me I would take advantage of the return policy and hear for yourself..
With XM radio I don’t think I’d realize the benefits as it’s a compressed media to begin with…
But I’m still amazed how good it can sound nevertheless… through the OG BF2… through a decent quality cable.


----------



## theveterans

mekap said:


> I read that WireWorld uses borosilicate glass in its cable with many individual strands and a glass magnifier that is located at the ends of the cable has a high-quality polish. There is an opinion of some people who doubt the quality of the decoder that converts light into an electrical impulse in the Schiit itself and the source. That's what my question was, not about the quality of the WireWorld cable.



I can give you an anecdotal impressions that the Supernova 7 optical does not cause digital sound fatigue after 2 hour nonstop listening sessions unlike the Unison USB from my Surface Pro. I suspect it’s the combination of better jitter clock source from my SP2000 DAP (200 femtoseconds) and the inherent galvanic isolation of optical transmission from the source


----------



## mekap (Aug 31, 2022)

theveterans said:


> I can give you an anecdotal impressions that the Supernova 7 optical does not cause digital sound fatigue after 2 hour nonstop listening sessions unlike the Unison USB from my Surface Pro. I suspect it’s the combination of better jitter clock source from my SP2000 DAP (200 femtoseconds) and the inherent galvanic isolation of optical transmission from the source


Advise me which is better, TOSLINK or COAXIAL
https://www.analogueseduction.net/oyaide/OYAIDEDR510.html
or
https://www.analogueseduction.net/d...upernova-7-digital-optical-toslink-cable.html


----------



## theveterans

mekap said:


> Advise me which is better, TOSLINK or COAXIAL
> https://www.analogueseduction.net/oyaide/OYAIDEDR510.html
> or
> https://www.analogueseduction.net/d...upernova-7-digital-optical-toslink-cable.html



Both are SPDIF so they get the clock from the source. Ensure your source have excellent clocks (femtosecond level oscillator for best results but picoseconds are very good already) and you can use either ports. With coax, you won’t have jitter degradation but noise can pass through while a poor optical cable can degrade jitter but the supernova is excellent for preserving that level of transmission.

IMO source jitter and power filtering gives the most important difference in sound as long as the toslink is extremely well made and SPDIF coax cable is of high conductance and shielded (usually twisted cores inside in a Litz wiring). What I notice with excellent source feeding BF2 is that the music flows so naturally without a hint of hardness in the notes even at loud listening levels (that’s the main culprit for hyperacusis/listening fatigue) without sacrificing microdynamic resolution and macrodynamics attack and decay

An example of excellence source is below:


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> A lot of retailers have a 30 day or so return policy you could try a budget one and try one of those if you didn’t like it all you’re out is probably shipping.
> I think there’s probably something to be said for having a true glass conductor.
> Some like analysis plus use a medical grade type fiber.


Thanks! I think I've read enough about optical cables to know to stay away from "basic" plastic cables.  Also, I've been told by someone who does R&D in fiberoptics that the use of a multi-strand (the more the better) is much preferred over a solid core cable.  Seems to jive with what the better cables offer.


mekap said:


> Advise me which is better, TOSLINK or COAXIAL
> https://www.analogueseduction.net/oyaide/OYAIDEDR510.html
> or
> https://www.analogueseduction.net/d...upernova-7-digital-optical-toslink-cable.html


I personally stay FAR away from silver cables in my digital chain (CDT-Bifrost-amp).  To me they can sound a little overly "etched" in the HFs.

For the time being I think I'll go ahead and pick up a DH Labs Silver Sonic. I've read enough good things about it to give it a try and maybe upgrade later on.


----------



## mekap

twigfarm said:


> Thanks! I think I've read enough about optical cables to know to stay away from "basic" plastic cables.  Also, I've been told by someone who does R&D in fiberoptics that the use of a multi-strand (the more the better) is much preferred over a solid core cable.  Seems to jive with what the better cables offer.
> 
> I personally stay FAR away from silver cables in my digital chain (CDT-Bifrost-amp).  To me they can sound a little overly "etched" in the HFs.
> 
> For the time being I think I'll go ahead and pick up a DH Labs Silver Sonic. I've read enough good things about it to give it a try and maybe upgrade later on.


https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/glass-master-toslink/
this ?


----------



## twigfarm

mekap said:


> https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/glass-master-toslink/
> this ?


No. Their less expensive one.
https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/toslink-optical/

Probably plastic but at least it's rated & it's what I can afford right now.


----------



## tmac17

These have a 30day return policy 
http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


----------



## mekap

twigfarm said:


> No. Their less expensive one.
> https://silversonic.com/products/digital-cables/toslink-optical/
> 
> Probably plastic but at least it's rated & it's what I can afford right now.


This one is also plastic, but it has a lot of fiber optic strands inside, which should be better than one strand.
https://www.sysconcept.ca/index.php


----------



## TheTechQ

My 2/64 upgrade kit arrived yesterday. Order placed 8/22, shipped 8/28, delivered 8/31. It looks like the estimated shipping time is just a safety for Schiit given unknown demand.


----------



## Kohonski

WaveTheory said:


> Full review of 2/64 is up. Lots of ground to cover. Use timestamps to watch parts relevant to you:
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



Very in-depth!

Had a couple questions as I have the OG BF2.

Setup:
- Jotenheim amp
- OG BF2
- Aeon RT

It's my first foray into anything past headphones and a portable amp. It's ruined everything else for me. Since it's my first/only setup, I don't have very much to compare it to.

I was reading around and it seems the amp is probably the way to go to keep/add warmth if I went for the 2/64. Does the Jotenheim still work for that or would another (similarly priced) amp be better?


----------



## Balthazar B

Kohonski said:


> Very in-depth!
> 
> Had a couple questions as I have the OG BF2.
> 
> ...


The Jout will probably be fine, but if you don't need the preamp stage and want to save some $$, people seem to like the Aeon RT/Vali 2 combination. The tube stage will definitely add warmth to the sound, and let you tweak what you hear via tube rolling. Or if you want a preamp stage and a lot more power, the new Lyr+ will do the same, but for more $$ than the Jout. What kind of music do you listen to most, and why do you think you suspect you'll need more warmth than the Jout provides?


----------



## theveterans

Kohonski said:


> Very in-depth!
> 
> Had a couple questions as I have the OG BF2.
> 
> ...


Demoed the Aeon Flow OG with the Jot 2 at Schiitr about 2 months ago right before it was replaced by the Folk. From my memory, it’s not too bright but it definitely reveals Jot’s brighter nature in the treble region. Where I truly like the Aeons is with Mjolnir2. Treble is now more extended without sounding aggressive and that planar slam is well executed! It’s not a warm sounding amp, but it’s less fatiguing sounding than Jot 2


----------



## altecboy

Ripper2860 said:


> My quick assessment of BF2 vs BF2/64 upgrade after a 2 hour warm-up and 2 hours of listening on my 2-channel rig...
> 
> BF2/64 impressions.
> 
> ...


Everything Ripper just said.  I'm listening to opera on a pair of Altec Model 19 clones and Bottlehead Monamour SET amps.  Long time original Bifrost 2 owner.  The listening space got deeper.  The details are clearer.  This is not a minor change.  In my system, it's major and most welcome.


----------



## theeclone

altecboy said:


> Everything Ripper just said.  I'm listening to opera on a pair of Altec Model 19 clones and Bottlehead Monamour SET amps.  Long time original Bifrost 2 owner.  The listening space got deeper.  The details are clearer.  This is not a minor change.  In my system, it's major and most welcome.


+1


----------



## chrismoyer

Just received my Bifrost 2/64 card. Slapped the SD card in the Bifrost 2... got the normal boot lights, not the firmware upgrade lightshow. Made sure it was seated well, tried again a half dozen times... stuck it in my computer and verified the firmware on the card is the latest by downloading the latest firmware

Formatted a new card (FAT32 w/ 32k clusters), copied the firmware over... put it in the Bifrost... same thing.

Could the card reader in my Bifrost be borked? Anyone else run into this?


----------



## theeclone

chrismoyer said:


> Just received my Bifrost 2/64 card. Slapped the SD card in the Bifrost 2... got the normal boot lights, not the firmware upgrade lightshow. Made sure it was seated well, tried again a half dozen times... stuck it in my computer and verified the firmware on the card is the latest by downloading the latest firmware
> 
> Formatted a new card (FAT32 w/ 32k clusters), copied the firmware over... put it in the Bifrost... same thing.
> 
> Could the card reader in my Bifrost be borked? Anyone else run into this?


So the card Schiit gave you didn't work? Was it inserted label up? What size card was the other one you formatted? Should be at least 4GB.

Also, was it by chance formatted on a mac? If so watch out for extraneous macos files on the card.


----------



## chrismoyer

The card Schiit gave me did not work... but prior to me trying it I did put it in a Mac. Which might have dumped extra stuff on the card. Ugh.

The replacement card I prepared... I also prepared on a Mac. Extra junk. Going to try my best to strip it out and try again. There's a .Spotlight-V100 directory I'm having trouble getting rid of. Blech.


----------



## theeclone

chrismoyer said:


> The card Schiit gave me did not work... but prior to me trying it I did put it in a Mac. Which might have dumped extra stuff on the card. Ugh.
> 
> The replacement card I prepared... I also prepared on a Mac. Extra junk. Going to try my best to strip it out and try again. There's a .Spotlight-V100 directory I'm having trouble getting rid of. Blech.


I did mine on a mac but completely in the terminal without ever opening it in the finder, and then making sure to delete all the mac junk in the terminal after flashing, then ejecting from the terminal. Then it worked. Also I ended up using a 200GB card that worked great, so don't be afraid to go bigger!


----------



## altecboy

chrismoyer said:


> Just received my Bifrost 2/64 card. Slapped the SD card in the Bifrost 2... got the normal boot lights, not the firmware upgrade lightshow. Made sure it was seated well, tried again a half dozen times... stuck it in my computer and verified the firmware on the card is the latest by downloading the latest firmware
> 
> Formatted a new card (FAT32 w/ 32k clusters), copied the firmware over... put it in the Bifrost... same thing.
> 
> Could the card reader in my Bifrost be borked? Anyone else run into this?


I had the same problem.  I wiped the card and re-formatted it.  My Windows 11 won't do it.  I used AOMEI (freeware).  Then I copied over the files and put the card into the Bifrost.  Done.


----------



## Luckyleo

chrismoyer said:


> Just received my Bifrost 2/64 card. Slapped the SD card in the Bifrost 2... got the normal boot lights, not the firmware upgrade lightshow. Made sure it was seated well, tried again a half dozen times... stuck it in my computer and verified the firmware on the card is the latest by downloading the latest firmware
> 
> Formatted a new card (FAT32 w/ 32k clusters), copied the firmware over... put it in the Bifrost... same thing.
> 
> Could the card reader in my Bifrost be borked? Anyone else run into this?


When I got the card, I couldn't seat the card or the firmware card easily.  I took the lid off and had absolutely no problems.  It was hard for me to determine whether or not both were placed properly until I took that lid off.

Leo


----------



## bcowen

Ripper2860 said:


> 'Muskrat Love' never sounded better.


What about "Love is All" from your other most favorite artist?


----------



## XylefMTG

Ripper2860 said:


> My quick assessment of BF2 vs BF2/64 upgrade after a 2 hour warm-up and 2 hours of listening on my 2-channel rig...
> 
> BF2/64 impressions.
> 
> ...


This sums up my experience and puts it into words better than I was able to. In addition to Wavetheory's review, this is a perfect summary IMHO.


----------



## theveterans

I rarely try DSD playback to BF2 well duh it can only convert PCM, but pretty impressed with Roon's DSD to PCM DSP capability. Much better conversion than using Foobar2000's SACD plug-in.


----------



## chrismoyer

Finally got access to Windows and made a proper firmware update card (FAT32, 32k clusters, just files from the firmware zip). Bifrost 2 does normal boot dance, not the upgrade light show, with the card inserted firmly label up. I guess it's time to contact support, I hate to send it back.


----------



## RickB

chrismoyer said:


> Finally got access to Windows and made a proper firmware update card (FAT32, 32k clusters, just files from the firmware zip). Bifrost 2 does normal boot dance, not the upgrade light show, with the card inserted firmly label up. I guess it's time to contact support, I hate to send it back.


Have you checked to see if you somehow have the latest firmware? Press the input/source button in for 3 seconds and let go. See if you're in NOS mode by whether the LED subtly dims and brightens.


----------



## Friskyseal

From my experience even if you have the latest firmware and you insert the SD card, the lightshow will commence and it will go through the updating process again.


----------



## Ripper2860

chrismoyer said:


> Finally got access to Windows and made a proper firmware update card (FAT32, 32k clusters, just files from the firmware zip). Bifrost 2 does normal boot dance, not the upgrade light show, with the card inserted firmly label up. I guess it's time to contact support, I hate to send it back.


The files are in the root of the SDcard and not in a folder, right?


----------



## chrismoyer

Ripper2860 said:


> The files are in the root of the SDcard and not in a folder, right?


Yes. These are all great questions, thanks for all the advice everyone. Both files are in the root. Latest firmware is not installed, holding the button does not initiate the NOS throbber. 

I had taken the case off on the first attempt to make sure I understood how to insert the card correctly. 

Tried 3 different 8gb SD cards, formatted to 32kb clusters with FAT32. Tried a quick format, tried a not quick format. Confirmed there were no hidden files by running dir /ah... also showing hidden file in Windows explorer. I've tried putting a little pressure on the card to try make sure the contacts were making contact. Looked in the slot with a flashlight, appears all clear.

Nothing has made the boot light sequence do anything other than what it normally does with no card inserted. Feeling like a newb here.

I've sent a message through https://www.schiit.com/contact/help-support, is that the best way to engage Schiit support?


----------



## Ripper2860

Sorry to hear about your difficulty flashing the firmware.  Hopefully Schiit support will provide assistance needed and a return will not be required.


----------



## cgb3 (Sep 2, 2022)

chrismoyer said:


> Yes. These are all great questions, thanks for all the advice everyone. Both files are in the root. Latest firmware is not installed, holding the button does not initiate the NOS throbber.
> 
> I had taken the case off on the first attempt to make sure I understood how to insert the card correctly.
> 
> ...


the micro SD card is fully seated, with about half protruding from the back. I suspect you're pushing the card too far into the unit, to achieve a flush fit, as in a phone.


----------



## Alcophone (Sep 3, 2022)

tmac17 said:


> These have a 30day return policy
> http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


Had one of these, and while it was the most gorgeous TOSLINK cable I have ever seen (though some of that scratches off quickly with use), it quickly stopped supporting 192 kHz somehow (while other cables in the same spot continued to support it) and so I had to send it back. While they couldn't confirm the issue, they did give me a refund, so I can vouch for their service.



mekap said:


> This one is also plastic, but it has a lot of fiber optic strands inside, which should be better than one strand.
> https://www.sysconcept.ca/index.php


Have quite a few of these, some with only TOSLINK connectors, some with TOSLINK and mini TOSLINK connectors, and they have all worked flawlessly. However, none of mine are longer than 6 ft, and even cheap, thin cables tend to support 192 kHz just fine at that distance. I'm not prepared to claim they sound better due to lack of deliberate comparisons (I use TOSLINK into a reclocker anyway, and then Coax or BNC), but this is my current go-to cable.

That said, the affordable Kabeldirekt TOSLINK cables have treated me well, too, though the longest one I have (25 ft) occasionally messes up some bits at 192 kHz sample rate.


----------



## mekap

Please advise which TOSLINK to TOSLINK cable to choose. Which one to choose plastic or glass? Which manufacturer's cable is better? I'm completely confused about the choice. I do not want to take an expensive cable and have the same result as with a cheaper one.


----------



## automojo (Sep 3, 2022)

If you’re going to go NOS
You better resurrect that old tube buffer…


mekap said:


> Please advise which TOSLINK to TOSLINK cable to choose. Which one to choose plastic or glass? Which manufacturer's cable is better? I'm completely confused about the choice. I do not want to take an expensive cable and have the same result as with a cheaper one.


Just a FIY
In my experience cables, it’s a trial and error thing.
However… my recommendation would be to stick with the name brand.
They generally don’t go south and if they do that will be covered by the manufactures warranty
Maybe start out with a more modest cable so you’re not out a lot of money.
That’s generally the way most people get into cables they don’t buy the most expensive ones first.
Pangea, The cable I’m using (SE version) the designer puts a lot of thought into the cable and frankly it works well and they always have pretty darn good reviews.
Conversely-you can’t really go wrong with Wireworld.
Give him my experience with her other cables, I can imagine the starlight 7 hits way above its price of admission.
If you buy it from a reputable retailer they have a return policy.
Maybe you have to pay a little return shipping but you get to use a cool cable for 30 days minimum-seems like a fair trade off


----------



## mekap

automojo said:


> If you’re going to go NOS
> You better resurrect that old tube buffer…
> 
> Just a FIY
> ...


https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGOPSE&variation=1.0
is this cable you are using?


----------



## automojo (Sep 3, 2022)

Opps
Sorry about the tube buffer thing.
Yes the Pangea.
Being it’s connecting a Polk XM tuner to the BF2 OG… it seemed an appropriate cable.
If I was dealing with CDs or a transport I might look at the Wireworld.
It’s hard to say it sounds darn good.
Getting back to NOS… kind of matter of taste.
The OG  BF2 has so much midrange/ midbass detail and texture.
This DAC is about as analog sounding as your going to get-regardless of price.
Kinda the point of NOS too.
Sound analog.
But NOS doesn’t sound analog- regardless of the DAC.
The most tolerable simple ones are the Muse TDAx4, and the DAC BOX S Fl- IMHO.
But they all wear thin after awhile- why? Frankly they make some recordings sound horrible.
The OG BF2 is just the opposite…it makes everything sound good to great…even 1st gen’s XM radio, crappy YouTube stuff whatever.
And this ain’t a common  trait in DAC’s I assure you.
The aforementioned Chord 2Quete is another one.
And given the reviews…from what I’m deciphering, it appears the 2/64 moves away from this.
Nice it closer to the Gumby and Yiggy.
While I can appreciate the sound of each one of those.
I simply like the first generation Bifrost 2, better the the Gumby MB or the several variations of Yiggys I’ve tried.

Nothing wrong with the 2/64  change, the reasoning makes sense.
Just not what I look for in a DAC.
Good to have options!!


----------



## MacMan31

Has anyone here compared the BF2 with the Musical Fidelity MX-DAC? I have the BF2 but I'm curious to try the MX-DAC. There is one up for sale on CAM.


----------



## automojo

MacMan31 said:


> MacMan31 said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone here compared the BF2 with the Musical Fidelity MX-DAC? I have the BF2 but I'm curious to try the MX-DAC. There is one up for sale on CAM.
> ...


My point would be what are you looking for that the BF2 isn’t giving you?


----------



## MacMan31

automojo said:


> Opps
> Sorry about the tube buffer thing.
> Yes the Pangea.
> Being it’s connecting a Polk XM tuner to the BF2 OG… it seemed an appropriate cable.
> ...



I have not done the latest firmware update on my BF2. Doesn't the update make the BF2 a 2/64?


----------



## RickB

MacMan31 said:


> I have not done the latest firmware update on my BF2. Doesn't the update make the BF2 a 2/64?


No. The 2/64 has different DAC chips on the hardware card.


----------



## automojo

MacMan31 said:


> I have not done the latest firmware update on my BF2. Doesn't the update make the BF2 a 2/64?


All it does is makes it ready for the card, and gives you the NOS option.
The 2/64 card is $300 + shipping


----------



## MacMan31

RickB said:


> No. The 2/64 has different DAC chips on the hardware card.





automojo said:


> All it does is makes it ready for the card, and gives you the NOS option.
> The 2/64 card is $300 + shipping



Oh okay. What does the NOS option do? Is it worth doing the update even if I don't get the 2/64 card?


----------



## theveterans

MacMan31 said:


> Oh okay. What does the NOS option do? Is it worth doing the update even if I don't get the 2/64 card?



In my system, NOS makes the sound more relaxed similar to how Sonnet, Metrum DACs sound (i.e. it removes the harsh edges on notes so even the crappiest master you can find will sound non-fatiguing at loud volumes). With NOS, it's crucial to have a really good upstream source or you'll lose resolution, spatial imaging, macrodynamics, slam as well as extension from both top and bottom octaves that the default OS filter provides. This is where I find my SP2000 source on Toslink sounding better than Unison USB on NOS mode


----------



## MacMan31

theveterans said:


> In my system, NOS makes the sound more relaxed similar to how Sonnet, Metrum DACs sound (i.e. it removes the harsh edges on notes so even the crappiest master you can find will sound non-fatiguing at loud volumes). With NOS, it's crucial to have a really good upstream source or you'll lose resolution, spatial imaging, macrodynamics, slam as well as extension from both top and bottom octaves that the default OS filter provides. This is where I find my SP2000 source on Toslink sounding better than Unison USB on NOS mode



Well my source is either from my Mac or directly from a CD.


----------



## theveterans (Sep 4, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> Well my source is either from my Mac or directly from a CD.



You can always press and hold the inputs to switch. If you notice NOS sounding low-res to on your Mac or CD, then just switch back to the default OS mode.

The reason why a great sounding NOS R2R DAC cost many times BF2’s price and is typically a lot more expensive than an Yggdrasil is because of its demanding nature for extremely precise clocks, extremely stable power and thermal management and sophisticated analog stage for filtering. OS tremendously helps to compensate for those parts and if you go extremes on OS ala Chord DACs, you won’t even find oscillator in their DACs and the analog stage is extremely simple (that’s where the marketing “directly connected to the DAC” comes from). All DAC types still need ultra clean power source though to sound best and that’s where I disagree with Rob Watts on his philosophy that a switching power supply on his DAVE DAC extracts the best sound out of it.


----------



## automojo (Sep 7, 2022)

I do agree that the more expensive NOS can sound better.
I’ve had more than a few demoing in my system.
A long term Metrum
They are susceptible to dynamic range issues, but of course they aren’t the only ones
Like any other component… a balance and synergy (Including cables) of  your system is way more important the the cost/ quality/high endness of your components.
A clean stable power is beneficial, and a certainly a audible benefit in any system.
But just don’t automatically think a linear power supply is the hot ticket.
Large transformers create large magnetic fields as well as hum.
I think a number more willing to spend money on the visual bling-DAC/ upgrade whatever… when they are very possibly not even maximizing what they currently have because of power/interference vibration issues etc.
Although my experience with  Chord 2Quet you’re probably better off sticking with the stock power supply.
Unless someone can chime in with a better linear power supply than the UK one currently offered.
Switching power supplies even cheap little walwarts-this simply don’t have to be noisy-and they can be tuned to a frequency that doesn’t cause any audible interference or interference of any other type in a audio/video/ computer system.
It’s really on how they are designed… there’s nothing earth shattering complicated about them a few simple tricks and they’re more than adequate.
Not to mention internal modifications to the Dac as well.


----------



## sahmen

Greetings to everyone:  Thinking of adding a BF-2 2/64 to a Singxer sa-1 in my office to create a modest rig for HPs and my Powered studio Speakers.  If anyone has ever auditioned a BF/2 (OG or 2/64) + Singxer SA-1 pairing, could you kindly give me your impressions?

Also, with so much talk in the last few pages about Toslink and Coaxial cables for the BF/2, I beginning to wonder what people think of the Unison USB input option on the BF/2.  Is Unison USB very popular as compared to the others AES, Toslink, coaxial as inputs for the BF-2?  I did purchase a Unison USB module for my Yggy A2 quite a while back, but I haven't installed (talk less of auditioning) it, because my Yggy A2 is currently hooked up to a network of interfaces that require that I use the AES input on the Yggy. I can also use the Schiit Eitr + Coaxial cable route when other circumstances call for it, so I have never been motivated to install the Unison USB module.

I have not found a lot to read about the performance of the Unison USB on the BF/2 in the few pages I have read on this forum but I need to know how well it performs, because I shall need to use the USB option for the BF/2 2/64 + Singxer SA-1 rig I am planning for my office.  Thanks.


----------



## automojo (Sep 7, 2022)

Speaking of noise….
If you think your powerlines are clean… get or borrow a Audio Prism Noise Sniffer, there are a few other similar products with displays as well.
A great diagnostic tool for audio, computers, video etc.
You can use it also the test switching power supplies- both ways… as some are perfectly adequate with their output, some interject noise into the AC powerline. Or both.
Quiet Lines absorb this nicely and inexpensively.
You may  be surprised how many high priced audio power conditioners leak a lot of noise!
It’s a real ear opener!


----------



## automojo

sahmen said:


> Greetings to everyone:  Thinking of adding a BF-2 2/64 to a Singxer sa-1 in my office to create a modest rig for HPs and my Powered studio Speakers.  If anyone has ever auditioned a BF/2 (OG or 2/64) + Singxer SA-1 pairing, could you kindly give me your impressions?
> 
> Also, with so much talk in the last few pages about Toslink and Coaxial cables for the BF/2, I beginning to wonder what people think of the Unison USB input option on the BF/2.  Is Unison USB very popular as compared to the others AES, Toslink, coaxial as inputs for the BF-2?  I did purchase a Unison USB module for my Yggy A2 quite a while back, but I haven't installed (talk less of auditioning) it, because my Yggy A2 is currently hooked up to a network of interfaces that require that I use the AES input on the Yggy. I can also use the Schiit Eitr + Coaxial cable route when other circumstances call for it, so I have never been motivated to install the Unison USB module.
> 
> I have not found a lot to read about the performance of the Unison USB on the BF/2 in the few pages I have read on this forum but I need to know how well it performs, because I shall need to use the USB option for the BF/2 2/64 + Singxer SA-1 rig I am planning for my office.  Thanks.


I couldn’t tell you with the current 2/64 it’s unique sound
But Unison works well and sounds excellent.… being it’s a carryover


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> I couldn’t tell you with the current 2/64 it’s unique sound
> But Unison works well and sounds excellent.… being it’s a carryover


+1 for Unison, and I also use a Curious USB cable which was a worthwhile investment and a step up even from my previous Audioquest Carbon cable.


----------



## automojo

BShaw said:


> +1 for Unison, and I also use a Curious USB cable which was a worthwhile investment and a step up even from my previous Audioquest Carbon cable.


I use a Wireworld Ultraviolet with great results


----------



## Emitflesti

Hi. I received my card today. Installation was relatively easy. The card sticks but doesn't feel solidly embedded, so you don't know if it was inserted or not. My first attempt to put the microSD card in resulted in the Bifrost swallowing it so I had to remove the big card in order to shake the Dac and retrieve the microSd card. In the end it all worked out and it was very helpful to follow the instructions on Schiit's YouTube channel.

My first impression was of a big, deep, extended sound. The scale of the soundstage increased substantially. It worked wonderfully for a few songs, but it suddenly started to feel like the sound was overwhelming and oftentimes bright. The organic signature of the Bifrost had completely disappeared and this was a big sound that drew attention to itself but quickly wore me out. It no longer felt organic, and the midrange was especially artificial.

In the afternoon I let it warm up and burn in with some music but the feeling remained the same. I tried the NOS mode but the loss in resolution was evident and the minimal organic effect was not enough to compensate for the loss of detail extraction.

At the end of the afternoon the idea that came to my mind was to return the card or sell it until I remembered that I had read some comments about using software oversampling functions in NOS mode, so I activated the NOS mode in the Bifrost and the oversampling function in Roon and the result was jaw dropping. The organic sound returned while the new scale of the card remained, giving me the best of both worlds.

I will continue evaluating it but I think that with this discovery I no longer want to return it or sell it.


----------



## automojo

The increase in soundstage, depth etc  more than a few seem to mention, seems to me as merely an emphasis in those certain frequency ranges that make songs appear to have lots of height and air.
Ribbon tweets are known for creating the same affect.
Or songs that have a tendency to be tilted upwards can many times have the same type of airy affect.
DS Dacs also pull this off.
The emphasis doesn’t have to be great to do this
The current entry level NAD CD player will wow you with a massively tall sound stage.
I agree… The effect can grow  thin very quickly.
Especially depending on your speakers
However if you’ve got old school speakers like in large advent, cone tweets.. etc the effect is way more acceptable… because they’re kind of one dimensional sounding for the most part.
I’m certainly not an expert, but it seems to me you’re hearing the sound signature between the two different chips in large part.
To me these big wide tall and deep song stages are more a characteristic of digital music than analog.
Reel to reel tape decks can pull this affect off sometimes as well..
Not to many l/p’s i’ve ran  across over  over the years.
Nothing wrong with that IMHO if that’s what you’re after.
It also seems like the two models. OG and 2/64  seem to be very different from what I’ve read about so far.


----------



## Emitflesti (Sep 9, 2022)

The technicalities seems to be very good in the 2/264 and in fact the limits of the soundstage do not seem exaggerated but the instruments and the people have a bigger size and more meat. However, to have the same tone as Bifrost 2, it will be necessary to play with changes in the system and with different oversampling options. I wonder if anyone else here has experience with roon's oversampling feature and if so which filter they prefer?


----------



## theveterans

Emitflesti said:


> The technicalities seems to be very good in the 2/264 and in fact the limits of the soundstage do not seem exaggerated but the instruments and the people have a bigger size and more meat. However, to have the same tone as Bifrost 2, it will be necessary to play with changes in the system and with different oversampling options. I wonder if anyone else here has experience with roon's oversampling feature and if so which filter they prefer?



Non oversampling 44.1 KHz for me since I experience all the benefits of NOS without the resolution drawbacks and without the wall of sound drawback using a very good Roon endpoint source on Toslink. OS now sounds less relaxed in my system and will cause a faster sense of listening fatigue (I suspect the SHARC DSP isn’t as good as the one in the Yggdrasil where Yggdrasil uses a full separate board and separate power source as seen on the internal circuit board shots)


----------



## schneller

So is BF2/64 brighter, more fatiguing than say Gungnir MB A2 and Yggdrasil LIM?


----------



## sahmen

schneller said:


> So is BF2/64 brighter, more fatiguing than say Gungnir MB A2 and Yggdrasil LIM?


That's the impression I'm getting so far, and I should say that the "brighter more fatiguing" aspect is giving me pause about getting the BF2/64 to pair with my Singxer SA-1 at the office, although I came here with my mind practically made up about getting the BF2/64.  I may have to go back to the drawing board and re-evaluate my options.


----------



## kumar402

well during my time with BF2/64, I never found it bright and mind you I am long time user of Metrum and Sonnet DACs which are as polite as they come and hence I feel if I come across a bright gear I can identify it easily and my experience with BF2/64 although limited was good. It was dynamic and clean.
My Headphone and chain is in signature and all the power cable and interconnects are tuned to have warmer sound and that may be the reason I never found it harsh?
Also I listen at low volume.


----------



## theveterans (Sep 9, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> Also I listen at low volume.



I also find most DAC even those with ESS glares and Cirrus Logic harshness are tolerable at low volumes. When I refer to listening fatigue, I should explicitly mention that I’m listening at reference levels 80-90 dB SPL on mainstream music and on Classical/Orchestral music, over 100 dB SPL peaks. At SPL levels, I find the well optimized NOS OG BF2 fatigue free and highly engaging for hours closer to those sophisticated NOS implementation DACs and Vinyl.

I would also add that this listening fatigue factor is irrespective of tonality (unless the whole system exaggeratedly bright) as there are neutral bright NOS DACs that exists and also is fatigue free at reference SPL listening for hours


----------



## kumar402

theveterans said:


> I also find most DAC even those with ESS glares and Cirrus Logic harshness are tolerable at low volumes. When I refer to listening fatigue, I should explicitly mention that I’m listening at reference levels 80-90 dB SPL on mainstream music and on Classical/Orchestral music, over 100 dB SPL peaks. At SPL levels, I find the well optimized NOS OG BF2 fatigue free and highly engaging for hours closer to those sophisticated NOS implementation DACs and Vinyl


that may be the reason, I mostly listen in early 70 DB SPL or late 60DB SPL in a quiet env and hence I have grown fond of Verite Closed as it allows me to get engaged with music at low volume. It took me some time but now I get engaged and feel connected with music better at low volume.


----------



## automojo (Sep 9, 2022)

I would imagine-some of the differences are also a sonic signature of the TI chip.
Just my take-the 2/64 board seems like it's moving away from the organic, 2ish dimensional textured warmer OG BF2 sound, for a more neutral/airy DS type sound.
Nothing wrong with that.
D/S DAC's dominate the market, and those that measure better-is certainly a marketing point-and always been a knock (for some of course) of Schiit MB's.
It's nice to have the options with the BF2-even if it's just the NOS (FIY I have NOT tried-but some seem to really like it).
Just things to think about-IMHO of course-before swapping out a OG board.
My take-the BF2OG is probably already established itself as classic-in that everything put through it sounds good to great.
Without smoothing over details-like a Maverick Audio/Grant Fidelity type DAC-Peach Tree Dac-IT-etc as not to be 'offensive".
It's all there..
On it's own-with no processing-hocus pocus type signal manipulating/Roon type affair.
Not perfect-what product is?
But IMHO that's quite a feat in itself-and really hard to 'improve' on a product with that type of characteristics.
Something that really can be enjoyable and revealing in a basic 2 channel system without Roon, DSP all they techie stuff.
Again-nothing wrong with that-but myself much prefer dealing with less processing-then more these days.
Too much fiddling-and less time to actually enjoy the music.
After all that's the end game here.

Like one of those good music venues-ever band sounds good-to great there.
Perfect?
Of course not-but who really cares when it gets down to it.
You getting 90+% of what's there.....and it sounds damn good!
IMHO plenty enough for this cat...


----------



## davidfrance (Sep 10, 2022)

For the moment, I am thinking that I won’t do the upgrade. If it was for free, I would probably be leaning towards getting the upgrade, but it’s not for free. A better upgrade for me would be upgrading from my Sennheiser HD660s to maybe something like Focal Clears. On top of everything else, my Bifrost 2 is running fine, and living outside of the U.S. sending it to the U.S for repairs would be complicated. So if it is running fine, there is a real motivation to not touch anything inside of it. But just overall, I am trying to just enjoy my system and not spend any more money. I have a lot of .flac files to listen to, but not as much as other people do. Just leaving my Bifrost 2 as it is, is maybe where I will draw the line. It’s already quite good.


----------



## Luckyleo

theveterans said:


> I also find most DAC even those with ESS glares and Cirrus Logic harshness are tolerable at low volumes. When I refer to listening fatigue, I should explicitly mention that I’m listening at reference levels 80-90 dB SPL on mainstream music and on Classical/Orchestral music, over 100 dB SPL peaks. At SPL levels, I find the well optimized NOS OG BF2 fatigue free and highly engaging for hours closer to those sophisticated NOS implementation DACs and Vinyl.
> 
> I would also add that this listening fatigue factor is irrespective of tonality (unless the whole system exaggeratedly bright) as there are neutral bright NOS DACs that exists and also is fatigue free at reference SPL listening for hours


One person's listening fatigue, is another's sonic bliss..... That's whats so great and so frustrating about this hobby.

Leo


----------



## theveterans

Luckyleo said:


> One person's listening fatigue, is another's sonic bliss..... That's whats so great and so frustrating about this hobby.
> 
> Leo



It's a matter of implementation for me and not necessarily the method of conversion. The iFi DACs are delta sigma (more specifically multibit (5-6 bits) delta sigma TI chips) yet they don't have the glare or harshness of a poorly implemented AKM or ESS (both are also multibit delta sigma chips). Even the TOTL Lampizator DACs are delta sigma but carefully implemented to extract the best sound out of delta sigma approach. Even in cost no object market, both R2R and DS are still competing where MSB Select II representing R2R and dCS Vivaldi APEX representing DS are considered the best respectively.


----------



## Zer0.p0int.Zer0 (Sep 10, 2022)

theveterans said:


> I also find most DAC even those with ESS glares and Cirrus Logic harshness are tolerable at low volumes. When I refer to listening fatigue, I should explicitly mention that I’m listening at reference levels 80-90 dB SPL on mainstream music and on Classical/Orchestral music, over 100 dB SPL peaks. At SPL levels, I find the well optimized NOS OG BF2 fatigue free and highly engaging for hours closer to those sophisticated NOS implementation DACs and Vinyl.
> 
> I would also add that this listening fatigue factor is irrespective of tonality (unless the whole system exaggeratedly bright) as there are neutral bright NOS DACs that exists and also is fatigue free at reference SPL listening for hours



maybe _listening fatigue _is the body’s biological response / natural defense to the stimulus of 90 dB


----------



## Ripper2860

Agreed.  There's Listening Fatigue and then there's Auditory Assault!!


----------



## theveterans (Sep 10, 2022)

Zer0.p0int.Zer0 said:


> maybe _listening fatigue _is the body’s biological response / natural defense to the stimulus of 90 dB



Modern music is extremely compressed. 90dB peaks so often but the normalized listening average is 80-85 dB to get a good auditorial sensation to me which pretty much aligned with THX reference levels. OG BF2 pretty much lets me listen at this reference SPLs without ever making my ears winced or pressured for more than 3 hours straight with modern compressed masters. With classical/orchestra though, I turn it up even more that even crescendos peaking at 100+ dB SPL is extremely rewarding and pleasant sounding! Few DACs passed my listening fatigue benchmark but that factor is definitely extremely varied per person as some can tolerate piercing highs (from a poor sounding system) without the fatigue sensation even at 90-100+ dB SPLs


----------



## tameral

I think most people find out something is harsh and fatiguing (in their chain) because they are listening at the same (safe) listening volume as always - and the initial excitement of extra detail wanes to a tiring experience (after several days of use)


----------



## Emitflesti

That is so  true. I had to increase the speakers spacing a few centimeters, which contributed to a better controlled midbass and even less bright midrange. I also dropped a click on my REL subwoofer crossover and went from 1:30 to 12 on my amp volume. It is evident that there is much more energy coming from all sides of the spectrum and adjustments have to be made to accommodate this


----------



## cgb3

theveterans said:


> Non oversampling 44.1 KHz for me since I experience all the benefits of NOS without the resolution drawbacks and without the wall of sound drawback using a very good Roon endpoint source on Toslink. OS now sounds less relaxed in my system and will cause a faster sense of listening fatigue (I suspect the SHARC DSP isn’t as good as the one in the Yggdrasil where Yggdrasil uses a full separate board and separate power source as seen on the internal circuit board shots)


What does this have to do with the Schiit 44/60 card for the Bifrost?

Sweet baby moses, as I recall, you stated you weren't buying the new card?

Do you have the new card?


----------



## theveterans

cgb3 said:


> What does this have to do with the Schiit 44/60 card for the Bifrost?
> 
> Sweet baby moses, as I recall, you stated you weren't buying the new card?
> 
> Do you have the new card?



I just like to elaborate about NOS in case someone's asking why do BF2 OG and BF2/64 owners prefer the OS over NOS. What I notice from multiple anecdotes, including YouTubers is that in *both *OG and 2/64 card, NOS mode lacks resolution and dynamics compared to OS. Not planning to buy the new card anytime soon since NOS OG keeps me very happy


----------



## BShaw

theveterans said:


> I just like to elaborate about NOS in case someone's asking why do BF2 OG and BF2/64 owners prefer the OS over NOS. What I notice from multiple anecdotes, including YouTubers is that in *both *OG and 2/64 card, NOS mode lacks resolution and dynamics compared to OS. Not planning to buy the new card anytime soon since NOS OG keeps me very happy


For me OS sounds like ragged *ss, to coin a phrase. Just doesn't sound coherent and it's rough around the edges. I think it takes a lot more investment in the internals to do NOS well, and the BF, as good as it is, is just not in that league.


----------



## theeclone

BShaw said:


> For me OS sounds like ragged *ss, to coin a phrase. Just doesn't sound coherent and it's rough around the edges. I think it takes a lot more investment in the internals to do NOS well, and the BF, as good as it is, is just not in that league.


You're saying NOS sounds like ragged *ss right?

Yeah, I personally feel like a NOS DAC isn't really complete without a smoothing filter. In fact, when I was in school for recording engineering, they started us off learning about NOS dacs because they're easier to understand than delta sigma/OS. We learned that a smoothing/reconstruction filter is a critical part of the design, to remove the high frequency content of the stair step waveform. Pretty sure wikipedia will say the same thing. Just part of sampling theory.

Also when people talk about oversampling and using filters upstream from the dac when it's in NOS mode I don't really get how that gets around the need for the analog smoothing filter. 1st off, doesn't the BF2 only accept up to 192K inputs anyway? Secondly, regardless of how high you oversample, you'll always have a stairstep waveform. Only way I know of to get rid of it is a smoothing filter, which I believe is necessarily in the analog domain.


----------



## theveterans

BShaw said:


> For me OS sounds like ragged *ss, to coin a phrase. Just doesn't sound coherent and it's rough around the edges. I think it takes a lot more investment in the internals to do NOS well, and the BF, as good as it is, is just not in that league.



NOS is just an afterthought option with BF2 after all. NOS truly does sound like *ss when implemented poorly like those cheap NOS DACs from obscure DIYers. My upstream source solution costs a lot more than BF2 just to make NOS sound at the level of its OS filter in terms of resolution and dynamics on my system without the edgier note transients. I'm surprised you find NOS rough on edges with the 2/64 whereas the notes edges are muted sounding straight out of PC with the OG card and only a low jitter battery powered source on toslink brought the bite on the edges back again without excess energy that I notice with the OS mode (closer to Chord's transient response note presentation for those who've heard their DACs). It takes a lot of digital timing accuracy and clean power as well as analog stage design that filters ultrasonics as to not cause IMD in the audible region to make NOS DAC sound bloody good.


----------



## theveterans

theeclone said:


> Also when people talk about oversampling and using filters upstream from the dac when it's in NOS mode I don't really get how that gets around the need for the analog smoothing filter.



Noise shaping or dithering to push the ultrasonic noise far above the bandpass filter in the analog stage


----------



## theeclone (Sep 12, 2022)

theveterans said:


> Noise shaping or dithering to push the ultrasonic noise far above the bandpass filter in the analog stage


In NOS mode, the highest sampling rate you can get is 192K on the BF2. We know the DAC is optimized for a maximum of 384K sampling rate since when using megacomboburrito it's an 8x OS DAC. You can oversample all you like, but you can't push more than 192K into the BF2, which means whatever bandpass exists in the analog section, you'll always essentially have a stairstep waveform at the output in NOS mode. No amount of dithering will change that, as dithering is a technique that exists in the amplitude domain.

All dithering does is decorrelate the noise from the signal. It can't magically change the way sample and hold circuitry works. Stairstep = ultrasonics, pure & simple.


----------



## theveterans (Sep 12, 2022)

theeclone said:


> In NOS mode, the highest sampling rate you can get is 192K on the BF2. We know the DAC is optimized for a maximum of 384K sampling rate since when using megacomboburrito it's an 8x OS DAC. You can oversample all you like, but you can't push more than 192K into the BF2, which means whatever bandpass exists in the analog section, you'll always essentially have a stairstep waveform at the output in NOS mode. No amount of dithering will change that, as dithering is a technique that exists in the amplitude domain.
> 
> All dithering does is decorrelate the noise from the signal. It can't magically change the way sample and hold circuitry works. Stairstep = ultrasonics, pure & simple.



Everything is pretty much a staircase before the actual conversion happens since the recording format is limited by "bits" and "sample rate" as defined by PCM (e.g. DXD is 24/352.8 which is still a stairstep when the output is magnified. The ideal ladder DAC should be able to handle every bit from most to least significant bits. Most DS DACs today oversamples much more than BF2 at around 768 KHz at least and with 5-6 bits most significant bits are converted similarly to a ladder DAC while the rest of bits goes through a sigma delta modulation.

Dithering is pretty much to increase SNR performance at the cost of elevated ultrasonic quantization errors that will be filtered by the analog section anyways


----------



## theeclone (Sep 12, 2022)

theveterans said:


> DXD is 24/352.8 which is still a stairstep when the output is magnified


This is actually a common misconception. 1st of all, DXD doesn't come out of a DAC, an analog waveform does. DXD is a format as you say, 24 bits and 352K. It is just a series of samples represented by numbers. To talk about it as a stairstep waveform as it's stored as samples is meaningless.

Assuming you run those samples through a properly designed DAC, you will in fact *not see a stairstep waveform at the output, but rather a smooth one.


----------



## kumar402

I guess one charm of NOS is if you have upsampling tools like HqPlayer or PGGB then upsample in those SF and run it via BF2 in NOS mode.


----------



## theeclone

kumar402 said:


> I guess one charm of NOS is if you have upsampling tools like HqPlayer or PGGB then upsample in those SF and run it via BF2 in NOS mode.


As I understand it, the highest SF the BF2 can accept on any input is 192K. It's possible Schiit just hasn't mentioned that in NOS mode it can accept higher, but I doubt that. So in theory if this is still the case, then upsampling to anything above 192K would be pointless. I played 192K flac files in NOS mode and thought it sounded awful. Not so in OS mode w the same files.

But Jason himself said there was no filter in NOS mode on this thread, including a smoothing filter. So at the end of the day no matter how high you oversample upstream, you'll still get a stairstepped waveform at the output.


----------



## kumar402 (Sep 12, 2022)

theeclone said:


> As I understand it, the highest SF the BF2 can accept on any input is 192K. It's possible Schiit just hasn't mentioned that in NOS mode it can accept higher, but I doubt that. So in theory if this is still the case, then upsampling to anything above 192K would be pointless. I played 192K flac files in NOS mode and thought it sounded awful. Not so in OS mode w the same files.
> 
> But Jason himself said there was no filter in NOS mode on this thread, including a smoothing filter. So at the end of the day no matter how high you oversample upstream, you'll still get a stairstepped waveform at the output.


We can still upsample 44.1 to 176.4 and 48 to 192Khz with filter and settings of our choice.

ok I see your point for stairstepped


----------



## theeclone

kumar402 said:


> We can still upsample 44.1 to 176.4 and 48 to 192Khz with filter and settings of our choice.
> 
> ok I see your point for stairstepped


True, but the point is, you'll still get a stairstepped waveform at the output, which means ultrasonics. Every step on the waveform in NOS output represents high frequency content. No matter what filters you apply in the digital domain, there's no way around that.


----------



## sahmen (Sep 12, 2022)

So bottom-line : what's the takeaway from these technical discussions of sampling practices in terms of performance outcomes on the BF 2 (/64)?  Please confirm if it is something as uncomplicated as :

BF 2 (/64) in megacomboburrito mode = Great
BF 2 (/64) in NOS mode.                       = Not-so-great or Not-always-so-great.

Nothing personal against anyone. I just ask because a lot of the technical discussions of the last page or two have gone right over my head, but I still want to know whether the BF2/64 is for me or not, and most importantly, whether I can expect to enjoy it if I purchase it.


----------



## MartyMcfly3004

Bassic Needs said:


> Unfortunately that's not how Schiit's site works. There is no Service Request displayed to the user.
> 
> I am postimg my issue and the eventual resolution here. This will allow the community to better understand if a trend exists or if mine was an isolated incident.


Did you ever find a solution to this? I'm having the exact same problem. If I switch the bifrost off for a few hours it will connect to my Fold 4. If I leave it on for a few hours I can't get any connection out of it.


----------



## theeclone

sahmen said:


> So bottom-line : what's the takeaway from these technical discussions of sampling practices in terms of performance outcomes on the BF 2 (/64)?  Please confirm if it is something as uncomplicated as :
> 
> BF 2 (/64) in megacomboburrito mode = Great
> BF 2 (/64) in NOS mode.                       = Not-so-great or Not-always-so-great.
> ...


tldr: For me, I loved the O.G. BF2 and love the 2/64 even more (in megacomboburrito mode). I don't like either version in NOS mode.

At first I had no idea why I disliked NOS mode so much. Then I asked Jason Stoddard from Schiit if there was any analog filtering going on in the BF2 when in NOS mode and he said no, which is why in NOS mode the audio coming out of the BF2 is literally a stairstep waveform.

My theory on why I dislike NOS mode in both the OG and 2/64 versions is because of this jagged waveform (the jaggedness leads to ultrasonic frequencies, which in theory can get reflected down into the audible fequencies). Some people seem to think oversampling their source material in a player like Roon can make the BF2 in NOS mode sound great. I am dubious but won't totally discount the possibility 🙂


----------



## automojo (Sep 12, 2022)

I have had a few NOS DAC's and moved on.
It was fun experimenting.
Frankly one of the better sounding NOS DACS for myself was the Project DAC BOX S FL-with the right program material.
If you have a SS/SS sounding preamp-they would be more tolerable IMHO.
But again-they wore thin for me-and the dynamics can be strange at times.
The additional processing is a non starter for me.
That's why the OG for myself fit's right in.


----------



## emorrison33

XylefMTG said:


> This sums up my experience and puts it into words better than I was able to. In addition to Wavetheory's review, this is a perfect summary IMHO.


I've had my card for about 2 weeks now.  Listened to it for maybe 15 to 20 hours, and it sums up my experience too.  My only "negative" is that I've noticed I've had to rasie the volume on my amp more to get to my normal listening level (not sure why that is).  Not neccessarily a negative, just an observation I guess.


----------



## cgb3

emorrison33 said:


> I've had my card for about 2 weeks now.  Listened to it for maybe 15 to 20 hours, and it sums up my experience too.  My only "negative" is that I've noticed I've had to rasie the volume on my amp more to get to my normal listening level (not sure why that is).  Not neccessarily a negative, just an observation I guess.


Are you listening in "exclusive mode"?

I have my windows 10 computer set to "exclusive mode" in the sound module of the control panel app.

My primary streamer, Amazon Music Unlimited, has a separate switch (under the speaker icon), to enable "exclusive mode".

When enabled, the music is at least 1.5 db louder. Why? I have no idea. The computer is set to output levels at 100%, but here we are.


----------



## emorrison33 (Sep 15, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Are you listening in "exclusive mode"?
> 
> I have my windows 10 computer set to "exclusive mode" in the sound module of the control panel app.
> 
> ...


I use Qobuz, from either my Surface Pro, or one of my DAP's (Fiio M11 or A&K SR25).  Both DAP's run in exclusive mode when using USB out to the Bifrost 2.  And I set the Qobuz app to exclusive mode on the Windows machine.  Exclusive mode automatically puts your volume at 100%. I've never tried running Qobuz without exclusive mode, so I don't know about the db being louder.  If I get time this weekend, I'll try it out.  I've read that the Amazon exclusive mode isn't really "exclusive".  It just stops other applications from using the sound.  Here's a link I found: https://amazonforums.force.com/s/qu...mazon-music-hd-important-exclusive-mode-issue
You still need to match the bit depth of the song your playing from your sound settings.  Pain in the ass IMO.
You may be able to find a better explanation with a Google search.


----------



## tafens

cgb3 said:


> Are you listening in "exclusive mode"?
> 
> I have my windows 10 computer set to "exclusive mode" in the sound module of the control panel app.
> 
> ...


Seems strange, but it’s probably because the sound goes through the windows mixer when not in exclusive mode and it lowers the level due to the mixing?


----------



## MacMan31

So I'm curious what the point is of getting the new output card to put in an older BF2? The latest firmware seems like it would give me the features of NOS and OS modes. I've only seen one comparison video on YT between the old BF2 and the 2/64.


----------



## theeclone

MacMan31 said:


> So I'm curious what the point is of getting the new output card to put in an older BF2? The latest firmware seems like it would give me the features of NOS and OS modes. I've only seen one comparison video on YT between the old BF2 and the 2/64.


The 2/64 card's sound is preferred by many, including myself. Having NOS doesn't really even factor in for me or many others who prefer OS mode with both the old and new cards.

Do you want a mini yggy LIM? That's pretty much what the 2/64 card gets you. Of course the yggy will still be better in some ways but you get a similar sound signature with 2/64.


----------



## MacMan31

Well the 2/64 card is a 10-12 week wait time. Plus the card would be almost $400 Canadian before any tax, shipping or customs fees.


----------



## theeclone

MacMan31 said:


> Well the 2/64 card is a 10-12 week wait time. Plus the card would be almost $400 Canadian before any tax, shipping or customs fees.


Yeah, can't help you there 🙂 Although there seem to be a lot of reports that their shipping time is way over estimated.

How many Canadian dolares is an yggy LIM, BTW? 😉


----------



## Neweymatt

MacMan31 said:


> Well the 2/64 card is a 10-12 week wait time. Plus the card would be almost $400 Canadian before any tax, shipping or customs fees.


I guess you just have to weigh up whether the sonic improvement is worth it to you.  If you’re enjoying the BF2 as is then maybe it’s not.

One of many reasons I bought a BF2 is for this kind of upgradability.  Not quite sure yet when I’ll pull the trigger on this one, but I’m really glad Schiit give us the option.


----------



## Rattle

Glad to have the new card available but I'd rather things sound like old schiit than the new schiit. Really good that they made it this way (with swappable boards, if it's an upgrade is debatable, don't fix what isn't broken)because they didn't have a choice with no more parts available from the old sku...


----------



## theeclone (Sep 16, 2022)

@Jason Stoddard  Idea for new schiit product: A small, simple, passive analog low pass filter for use as a smoothing filter with NOS dacs that output stairsteps.

It could be xlr or rca. Would pass everything below 88.2KHz, with an extremely gentle curve. Heck, I doubt I would care if it started rolling off at 22KHz or so.

Just put it right after your dac. No adjustments. Trying to use redbook with NOS on BF2 and still want smoothing? Upsample to at least 176.4KHz. Problem solved.

Looking around, I can't seem to find a product like this. I WOULD BUY IT! 🙂


----------



## TheFrator

So I'm currently feeding my headphone amplifier with the balanced outputs of the BF2. But I'm getting a Freya S preamp to use for the stereo I'm setting up and I want to feed it the signal from the Bifrost 2 too. Is it simple enough to get a pair XLR cable splitters like these?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CKX36BN/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7&psc=1


----------



## KrauserX91

Any comparison between 2/64 and Yggy LiM? I could not find yet anything.


----------



## The Hawk

TheFrator said:


> So I'm currently feeding my headphone amplifier with the balanced outputs of the BF2. But I'm getting a Freya S preamp to use for the stereo I'm setting up and I want to feed it the signal from the Bifrost 2 too. Is it simple enough to get a pair XLR cable splitters like these?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CKX36BN/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7&psc=1



I would just use the SE outputs of the Bifrost to feed one of the SE inputs of the Freya


----------



## theveterans

Would love to have an adopticlock trickle down tech to the next BF2. It would help with the NOS sound tremendously in the resolution. The tonality preference of NOS BF2 especially in the mids for me is too good. I believe people would start taking NOS seriously when this reclocking mechanism is added to BF2


----------



## chrismoyer

The Hawk said:


> I would just use the SE outputs of the Bifrost to feed one of the SE inputs of the Freya



Indeed... I run the XLR from my BF2 into a Rag 2 and the SE into a Valhalla 2. I love that they are both always on.


----------



## jester115

KrauserX91 said:


> Any comparison between 2/64 and Yggy LiM? I could not find yet anything.


Curious on this as well.


----------



## theeclone

jester115 said:


> Curious on this as well.


Some talk of this over on the sbaf bifrost 2 thread. If I recall it was Marv saying that on the one hand, with a very resolving system, the LIM is very far ahead of the 2/64, but on the other hand, with a less resolving system they may be more difficult to tell apart. Apologies if I'm paraphrasing incorrectly. Suggest looking at the thread, with posts around the time the 2/64 was unveiled.


----------



## TheFrator

The Hawk said:


> I would just use the SE outputs of the Bifrost to feed one of the SE inputs of the Freya


Yeah I'll just do that. I just wanted to use XLR because that's what I've always used once I started using balanced amps.


----------



## chrismoyer

theeclone said:


> Some talk of this over on the sbaf bifrost 2 thread. If I recall it was Marv saying that on the one hand, with a very resolving system, the LIM is very far ahead of the 2/64, but on the other hand, with a less resolving system they may be more difficult to tell apart. Apologies if I'm paraphrasing incorrectly. Suggest looking at the thread, with posts around the time the 2/64 was unveiled.


I'm curious what they consider a very resolving system.


----------



## theeclone

chrismoyer said:


> I'm curious what they consider a very resolving system.


*sigh*, ok I'll do the work for you. My memory wasn't too terribly bad on this one:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-bifrost-2.8226/page-58#post-388416

But srsly you'd have to ask him what he means by "mediocre" here. I don't really think my downstream gear is amazing but as I mentioned a while back in this thread, I was surprised at how the 2/64 seemed to be doing more of what I liked in an yggy than the O.G. BF2 card.

I also mentioned that I suspected my BF2 was benefiting from good power cabling in my setup. I have to wonder if a lot of what I was hearing from the yggy at the schiitr had to do with its superior power supply, and I sometimes wonder if good thick cables can help smaller power supplies like those in the BF2 sound better.


----------



## Friskyseal

I upgraded my power cables for both my Bifrost 2 and amp (Singxer SA-1) with relatively affordable cables from SignalCable and have been super happy with the results. It's the kind of thing where you have to be satisfied purely from a build quality/aesthetic/ergonomic point of view, with any sound differences being a huge bonus. Well, I think the bonus is there for sure. Although I think it made a much bigger difference with the Amp than the DAC.


----------



## theeclone

Friskyseal said:


> I upgraded my power cables for both my Bifrost 2 and amp (Singxer SA-1) with relatively affordable cables from SignalCable and have been super happy with the results. It's the kind of thing where you have to be satisfied purely from a build quality/aesthetic/ergonomic point of view, with any sound differences being a huge bonus. Well, I think the bonus is there for sure. Although I think it made a much bigger difference with the Amp than the DAC.


That makes sense. Some people will think you're crazy for saying power cables make a difference, but I've heard them make a really significant difference.

I got really into making my own for a while, always with at least some solid conductors. The solid conductors supposedly help with bass. Interestingly, I seemed to notice that effect most with class D amps.

Electric current is weird. I barely feel like I understand it. Different kinds of conductors have different capacitance, and depending on how close the conductors are to each other, things like capacitance can change. The insulation matters too, as does shielded vs non shielded.

But the power supply capacitors can be affected by the cable, from my understanding. I think it has to do with how quickly they can recharge, to deliver lots of energy to the speakers.


----------



## carbonF1

Friskyseal said:


> I upgraded my power cables for both my Bifrost 2 and amp (Singxer SA-1) with relatively affordable cables from SignalCable and have been super happy with the results. It's the kind of thing where you have to be satisfied purely from a build quality/aesthetic/ergonomic point of view, with any sound differences being a huge bonus. Well, I think the bonus is there for sure. Although I think it made a much bigger difference with the Amp than the DAC.



I have a 10AWG cable (I’m guessing that’s what yours is?) and wish I had tried it in the BF2. I used a 14AWG monosaudio cable and didn’t like it. Why I kept it in - because it was silver. LOL. Preferred using the stock cable. Some components like the thicker gauge cables.

For fun, here’s an old photo I found with some fancy audio jewelry.


----------



## velemar1

Is there a good HQ player or Roon upsampling tutorial on YouTube? Been curious to get into upsampling, now that my Bifrost 2 can do NOS.


----------



## theveterans (Sep 16, 2022)

velemar1 said:


> Is there a good HQ player or Roon upsampling tutorial on YouTube? Been curious to get into upsampling, now that my Bifrost 2 can do NOS.



You would need to have a streamer that supports NAA and Roon. Then you can go to roon community to setup HQPlayer NAA with Roon

Here's an example: https://www.exasound.com/Products/SigmaStreamer.aspx


----------



## Autiomatic

As someone who has often lurked and seldom said much, I now have a question I wonder if someone may help me with. I have owned the original Bifrost for many years, and have upgraded it as much as it can be (most recently the Unison USB upgrade). Last night I did a comparison between my Modius (both outputs) and my Bifrost on a fairly resolving system, and found the Bifrost to have a more 3D image. The Modius seemed flatter in comparison and musical elements seemed to occupy more definite space in the soundstage on the Bifrost than the Modius. Being able to discern this difference has ignited the upgraditis in me and I’m wondering, for those who may have chosen to upgrade from the OG Bifrost to the Bifrost 2, how much of a difference there is between the two. I’m particularly interested now with this recent upgrade, and the comparisons to the Yggy LIM. The OG Yggy is my dream DAC, but it would likely be many years (or a lottery win) before that could become a reality. 

I should also mention that I’m very intrigued by the in-house delta-sigma design that Mike and Dave are working on, and have been waiting on it’s release before committing one way or the other.


----------



## theveterans

Autiomatic said:


> As someone who has often lurked and seldom said much, I now have a question I wonder if someone may help me with. I have owned the original Bifrost for many years, and have upgraded it as much as it can be (most recently the Unison USB upgrade). Last night I did a comparison between my Modius (both outputs) and my Bifrost on a fairly resolving system, and found the Bifrost to have a more 3D image. The Modius seemed flatter in comparison and musical elements seemed to occupy more definite space in the soundstage on the Bifrost than the Modius. Being able to discern this difference has ignited the upgraditis in me and I’m wondering, for those who may have chosen to upgrade from the OG Bifrost to the Bifrost 2, how much of a difference there is between the two. I’m particularly interested now with this recent upgrade, and the comparisons to the Yggy LIM. The OG Yggy is my dream DAC, but it would likely be many years (or a lottery win) before that could become a reality.
> 
> I should also mention that I’m very intrigued by the in-house delta-sigma design that Mike and Dave are working on, and have been waiting on it’s release before committing one way or the other.



I upgraded from BF1 way back then. From memory, BF2 OG (AD5781ARUZ chip) is tighter than the BF MB with better bass definition and slightly farther presentation than BF MB (not that farther staging means laid back sound IMHO). Yggy OG card is in a whole different level compared to BF2 where the sense of space is now extending from very front to back unlike BF2 OG where staging in front to back is more compressed. Yggy has more microdetails especially in the pitch/timbre inflections of instruments (thanks to its better power management, VXCO reclocker and more advanced DSP board) than BF2. Tonality wise, they're very similar with Yggy OG's bass texture is more defined but has similar level of impact.


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## theeclone (Sep 17, 2022)

Autiomatic said:


> As someone who has often lurked and seldom said much, I now have a question I wonder if someone may help me with. I have owned the original Bifrost for many years, and have upgraded it as much as it can be (most recently the Unison USB upgrade). Last night I did a comparison between my Modius (both outputs) and my Bifrost on a fairly resolving system, and found the Bifrost to have a more 3D image. The Modius seemed flatter in comparison and musical elements seemed to occupy more definite space in the soundstage on the Bifrost than the Modius. Being able to discern this difference has ignited the upgraditis in me and I’m wondering, for those who may have chosen to upgrade from the OG Bifrost to the Bifrost 2, how much of a difference there is between the two. I’m particularly interested now with this recent upgrade, and the comparisons to the Yggy LIM. The OG Yggy is my dream DAC, but it would likely be many years (or a lottery win) before that could become a reality.
> 
> I should also mention that I’m very intrigued by the in-house delta-sigma design that Mike and Dave are working on, and have been waiting on it’s release before committing one way or the other.


I owned an O.G. Bifrost multibit but that was a while ago, and I used spdif and Gen 5 USB. To me Unison has made a really big difference so it's hard to compare. I remembered thinking the Bimby had great slam. Ppl say that about the O.G. BF2 but I think the Bimby had more.

In general I found the O.G. BF2 to be sweeter, more neutral, and warm without being as muddy. Less haze than bimby. And I think better spatial placement.

The 2/64 has even better spatial placement than the O.G. BF2 to my ears. Bigger overall soundstage. More grit, better dynamic control, more controlled and extended bass. More sparkly highs.

I still don't really understand what it is about multibit that seems to do better at these kinds of things than delta sigma, though now I'm also intrigued that Schiit are working on a unique DS dac! Didn't know that until your post. I seem to remember seeing videos of Mike talking about how many feet the wavelengths of bass frequencies are, in response to questions about multibit dacs. I never really understood what he was getting at. It was like he was saying that multibit more accurately recreates the bass frequencies. But then again I think DSD (1 bit delta sigma) has great bass 🤷‍♂️


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## Bassic Needs

MartyMcfly3004 said:


> Did you ever find a solution to this? I'm having the exact same problem. If I switch the bifrost off for a few hours it will connect to my Fold 4. If I leave it on for a few hours I can't get any connection out of it.


Yes good news in post 2723 and 2724 I share what the problem and solution was: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/post-16902421
Basically, the BF2's USB input needs a power boost from a plug-in USB hub. I bought this one for example: "SABRENT Multi-Port USB Type-C Hub with ..." https://a.co/d/44wGF6q


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## MartyMcfly3004

Bassic Needs said:


> Yes good news in post 2723 and 2724 I share what the problem and solution was: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-audio-bifrost-2.914084/post-16902421
> Basically, the BF2's USB input needs a power boost from a plug-in USB hub. I bought this one for example: "SABRENT Multi-Port USB Type-C Hub with ..." https://a.co/d/44wGF6q


You are an absolute legend. Will try this out and if it works I will let Schiit support know as they couldn't work it out.


----------



## Bassic Needs

MartyMcfly3004 said:


> You are an absolute legend. Will try this out and if it works I will let Schiit support know as they couldn't work it out.


Unfortunately Schiit's tech support seem to be unaware of this problem and solution despite it being documented on their own site: https://www.schiit.com/guides/usb-problems



> *DAC Not Recognized/Disconnecting*
> 
> 1.* You may have a low-power USB port. *In their quest to save us from excess USB power consumption, Windows and MacOS can cause problems by selectively suspending operation and/or having only low power available from the USB port.
> 
> ...


----------



## MartyMcfly3004

Bassic Needs said:


> 2. *On PCs and Macs, you may be able to eliminate it by disabling port power management. *See here:
> https://www.windowscentral.com/how-prevent-windows-10-turning-usb-devices and https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204032


This also makes sense why my macbook has never had an issue as I always use a powered hub with it.


----------



## MartyMcfly3004

MartyMcfly3004 said:


> You are an absolute legend. Will try this out and if it works I will let Schiit support know as they couldn't work it out.


Used my MacBook usb c hub and it works perfectly - this is with the Bifrost having being turned on for the last week, and it also means I can add my 250gig thumb drive to my hub so I can access my Flac files via UAPP, and the phone is being charged.

4 years of iPhone use made me forget the possibilities available with Android!


----------



## tinariwen

So a while ago (when the upgrade was released), I bought a Qutest as an upgrade to the OG BF2.

I decided I preferred its sound in my setup (Qutest, Cayin Ha-300mk2, Susvara). I realised after a bit of back and forth that the sound was cleaner, for want of a better word. Maybe more separation, maybe more detail, or a blacker background, or better extension.

The BF2 had better dynamics, but the biggest problem for me was the slightly strident lower treble. Something I hadn’t noticed before as I’d never bothered to compare the BF2 with other DACs. Once I’d noticed it though, I couldn’t stop hearing it, and so the BF2 has been boxed and put to one side.

Does the new upgrade card fix that issue, and maybe bring it closer in other aspects to the Qutest? I asked you guys back when the upgrade card was released and got some informative answers, but wondered if more of you would have the same or different opinions now


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## Guinibee (Sep 19, 2022)

Hello all,
Been jumping around this thread trying to determine if I should upgrade my OG BF2 card to the BF2/64 card.  The 10-12 week wait hurts, as well as the $300, but from what I'm reading there's more details with the new card and people overall enjoy the upgrade.  My biggest worry is with the sample rate issues...did all that get resolved yet?  I didn't want to filter this whole thread to find out, but looks like about a month ago it was a big issue.  Is it still much of a problem?  I figured if I have to wait 10-12 weeks it'll likely be resolved by then anyway...provided it's on the firmware side and not hardware related.

I also have not updated my firmware in a while.  What is this NOS mode?  Seems like folks don't like it much?

My setup has no balanced either, so does the card matter for that?  Right now I have an Element 3 that I run as my "easy" setup, and I have a BF2 OG > Quicksilver Headamp when I'm using my ZMF Headphones.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Guinibee said:


> Hello all,
> Been jumping around this thread trying to determine if I should upgrade my OG BF2 card to the BF2/64 card.  The 10-12 week wait hurts, as well as the $300, but from what I'm reading there's more details with the new card and people overall enjoy the upgrade.  My biggest worry is with the sample rate issues...did all that get resolved yet?  I didn't want to filter this whole thread to find out, but looks like about a month ago it was a big issue.  Is it still much of a problem?  I figured if I have to wait 10-12 weeks it'll likely be resolved by then anyway...provided it's on the firmware side and not hardware related.
> 
> I also have not updated my firmware in a while.  What is this NOS mode?  Seems like folks don't like it much?
> ...


I believe the sample rate issue was solved with a firmware update. From what I've read here, most people have gotten their cards shipped much quicker than the 10-12 week estimate. 

From a selfish point of view, I'd like you to do the upgrade and report back because I also have the OG BF2, Quicksilver, and a ZMF. I have held off up until now because I like the sound of my current setup so much that I am hesitant to change anything!


----------



## Guinibee

ckhirnigs113 said:


> I believe the sample rate issue was solved with a firmware update. From what I've read here, most people have gotten their cards shipped much quicker than the 10-12 week estimate.
> 
> From a selfish point of view, I'd like you to do the upgrade and report back because I also have the OG BF2, Quicksilver, and a ZMF. I have held off up until now because I like the sound of my current setup so much that I am hesitant to change anything!


I have been avoiding looking into audio source gear for the past 6 months since I got my QS since it's so good!  I saw a Lyr+ also launched and I used to have a Lyr 3 I liked, but it's not as good as the QS.  I had a Jot 2 and I never used that either after getting the QS.  I sold both of those and kept the Element 3 since having a clean all in one that sounds great with a small footprint and awesome knob was nice.

Since I still own the BF2, I figured an upgrade to the new card wouldn't hurt...I might be your guinea pig.  I'm actually trying to sell my VO to grab one of these Hot Cup Summer VCs...or have money for ZMF November, but man of course better source gear would launch!  This hobby makes me so broke ...but I Iove it!  I don't think my wife does though lol.


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## kumar402

Common guys...think of it as Tube rolling. Instead of tube you will be rolling the card for different flavor. If you don't like the new card..pop it out and replace with OG.


----------



## TheFrator

tinariwen said:


> So a while ago (when the upgrade was released), I bought a Qutest as an upgrade to the OG BF2.
> 
> I decided I preferred its sound in my setup (Qutest, Cayin Ha-300mk2, Susvara). I realised after a bit of back and forth that the sound was cleaner, for want of a better word. Maybe more separation, maybe more detail, or a blacker background, or better extension.
> 
> ...


My immediate takeaway when jumpng from OG BF2 to 64 was the treble had more energy to it. I could tell this by ear fatigue I got initially when using it. Idk if my experiences answers your question but I think it's worth trying the new card.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

kumar402 said:


> Common guys...think of it as Tube rolling. Instead of tube you will be rolling the card for different flavor. If you don't like the new card..pop it out and replace with OG.


Haha, this is very true.


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Guinibee said:


> I have been avoiding looking into audio source gear for the past 6 months since I got my QS since it's so good!  I saw a Lyr+ also launched and I used to have a Lyr 3 I liked, but it's not as good as the QS.  I had a Jot 2 and I never used that either after getting the QS.  I sold both of those and kept the Element 3 since having a clean all in one that sounds great with a small footprint and awesome knob was nice.
> 
> Since I still own the BF2, I figured an upgrade to the new card wouldn't hurt...I might be your guinea pig.  I'm actually trying to sell my VO to grab one of these Hot Cup Summer VCs...or have money for ZMF November, but man of course better source gear would launch!  This hobby makes me so broke ...but I Iove it!  I don't think my wife does though lol.


We have taken very similar paths in this hobby. I actually had a JDS Labs EL Amp II before upgrading to the Quicksilver. I'm all in on tubes now, so I don't even have a solid-state amp anymore. I will tell you from experience, the VC/Quicksilver/BF2 combo is great.


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## Guinibee

ckhirnigs113 said:


> We have taken very similar paths in this hobby. I actually had a JDS Labs EL Amp II before upgrading to the Quicksilver. I'm all in on tubes now, so I don't even have a solid-state amp anymore. I will tell you from experience, the VC/Quicksilver/BF2 combo is great.


Yeah I have a VO and an Atrium.  The Atrium I got from Zack in the KOA wood and I adore it.  The VO I love, but I got it used and it has some marks, so I'd prefer to get at least a B-Stock so it has the driver lifetime warranty.  I can't quite decide between getting another VO or going to VC to try something different, but I hear they're pretty similar and VC benefits from isolation.

Either way, I think having the BF2/64 should be an upgrade.  I'd like to try a Lyr+, but I doubt it bests the QC, though it appears to be very flexible which is pretty cool.  I'm leaning yes on the BF2/64 card upgrade and no or wait on the Lyr+.


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## schneller

TheFrator said:


> My immediate takeaway when jumpng from OG BF2 to 64 was the treble had more energy to it. I could tell this by ear fatigue I got initially when using it. Idk if my experiences answers your question but I think it's worth trying the new card.



Does it still cause your fatigue after some time and burn-in?


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## TheFrator (Sep 19, 2022)

schneller said:


> Does it still cause your fatigue after some time and burn-in?


No I got used to it after 2 days. Mind you this is with my LCD-5s off the Ferrum Oor amp. I tried the Mojo 2 (line out input into my Oor and as a DAC/amp combo) and it gives me much more fatigue than anything the switch to the 2/64 caused. So at least directly comparing these two DACs, the 2/64 is less fatiguing.

Here's my post in the Oor thread for anymore context - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ferrum-oor-headphone-amplifier-with-a-soul.958541/post-17147529


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## automojo (Sep 19, 2022)

Frankly alot of this has to do with system matching-just like anything else.
You can't expect to plug something in different for something else that-if it was working good-to be a automatic upgrade.
I think people see "new" "different" and assume it's going to be better.
It's only a upgrade if it sounds like one.

Frankly you look at the difference in sound in those chips-and from what I have read so far-that's kinda what your getting.
That's what those TI chip do-in my experience-create air apparent depth by a slight emphasis on those frequencies.
The power supply/ etc seems to remain the same.
To me the real logical step from the BF2 OG-would still be the Gungnir.
Or the original Yiggy
Power supply/reclocking etc.


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> Frankly alot of this has to do with system matching-just like anything else.
> You can't expect to plug something in different for something else that-if it was working good-to be a automatic upgrade.
> I think people see "new" "different" and assume it's going to be better.
> It's only a upgrade if it sounds like one.
> ...


I think what you said about the chips is spot on, and still myself don't call this necessarily an upgrade. It's a matter of whether you prefer the new sonic profile. There are things I definitely prefer in the new board, but things I really miss about the original BF2. If I could retrieve the heft and weight and emotional qualities of the original and add them to the extra air and treble clarity (and maybe more bass detail as well) of the 64, I'd be in heaven. But as it is, I'm increasingly feeling, for instance, that the impact and realness of drums has really taken a hit. Let's face it, Jason and Mike had a crisis on their hands, and they solved it the best way they could. If the TI chips had been better a few years ago, they would probably have used them or their immediate forebears back then I presume.
I'm saving for my next DAC, looking at the new Gustard R26 in particular.


----------



## automojo

BShaw said:


> I think what you said about the chips is spot on, and still myself don't call this necessarily an upgrade. It's a matter of whether you prefer the new sonic profile. There are things I definitely prefer in the new board, but things I really miss about the original BF2. If I could retrieve the heft and weight and emotional qualities of the original and add them to the extra air and treble clarity (and maybe more bass detail as well) of the 64, I'd be in heaven. But as it is, I'm increasingly feeling, for instance, that the impact and realness of drums has really taken a hit. Let's face it, Jason and Mike had a crisis on their hands, and they solved it the best way they could. If the TI chips had been better a few years ago, they would probably have used them or their immediate forebears back then I presume.
> I'm saving for my next DAC, looking at the new Gustard R26 in particular.


Thanks!
Much better articulated then my rambling!!
Curious 
Have you ever tried, demoed a Gungnir MB
Or Yiggy?


----------



## theveterans

BShaw said:


> I think what you said about the chips is spot on, and still myself don't call this necessarily an upgrade. It's a matter of whether you prefer the new sonic profile. There are things I definitely prefer in the new board, but things I really miss about the original BF2. If I could retrieve the heft and weight and emotional qualities of the original and add them to the extra air and treble clarity (and maybe more bass detail as well) of the 64, I'd be in heaven. But as it is, I'm increasingly feeling, for instance, that the impact and realness of drums has really taken a hit. Let's face it, Jason and Mike had a crisis on their hands, and they solved it the best way they could. If the TI chips had been better a few years ago, they would probably have used them or their immediate forebears back then I presume.
> I'm saving for my next DAC, looking at the new Gustard R26 in particular.



I don't think it's less of the chips but more of the op-amp to Ti chip synergy preference that's in factor here. From what I see, the op-amps used with the OG BF2 for both SE and balanced is the LME49724 while the SE out of the 2/64 is the OPA1656 and balanced out still has the LME49724. I would try A/Bing the Balanced and SE out and decide which output gives better synergy to your system


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> Thanks!
> Much better articulated then my rambling!!
> Curious
> Have you ever tried, demoed a Gungnir MB
> Or Yiggy?


No I haven't. I was considering a Gungnir for a while, but kept reading things about it not being much of an upgrade, and that it was outdated, etc, and I've always considerd the Yggies to be out of my budget. Would love to demo one though.


----------



## BShaw

theveterans said:


> I don't think it's less of the chips but more of the op-amp to Ti chip synergy preference that's in factor here. From what I see, the op-amps used with the OG BF2 for both SE and balanced is the LME49724 while the SE out of the 2/64 is the OPA1656 and balanced out still has the LME49724. I would try A/Bing the Balanced and SE out and decide which output gives better synergy to your system


Interesting observation!  I'll give that a try on my Jot2, wish my main amp had balanced inputs.


----------



## automojo

BShaw said:


> No I haven't. I was considering a Gungnir for a while, but kept reading things about it not being much of an upgrade, and that it was outdated, etc, and I've always considerd the Yggies to be out of my budget. Would love to demo one though.


Sure
My audio memory may be poor, but as I recall the newest Gungnir MB… was close to BF2 OG.
But had slightly more bass heft and more mid/ mid bass texture.
A wider and deeper sound stage without changing tone or emphasis.
Everything else including that euphoric sense seem to be the same- as I recall.
So they may be close l, but it seems a step foward… and not a step sideways so they speak.. A different direction.

If I’m off comparing Gungnir vs Bifrost 2OG.. someone please chime in.
It’s been about a year plus since I compared the 2…the Gungnir had Unison.


----------



## Autiomatic

Thank you kindly to theveterans and theeclone for your replies. I think I will continue to wait to see what Mike and Dave come up with with their delta sigma implementation and continue to enjoy my OG Bifrost for the time being.


----------



## esmse

BShaw said:


> No I haven't. I was considering a Gungnir for a while, but kept reading things about it not being much of an upgrade, and that it was outdated, etc, and I've always considerd the Yggies to be out of my budget. Would love to demo one though.



I wonder as well why they have made 2 iterations on the Bifrost and nothing on Gungnir. I suspect because maybe they don't think its going to be much of an upgrade versus BF2 but I would maybe just buy it for form factor and to stack it with Freya for example. Now it just feels wrong buying a Gungnir, why not just keep it up to date with latest...


----------



## automojo (Sep 20, 2022)

esmse said:


> esmse said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder as well why they have made 2 iterations on the Bifrost and nothing on Gungnir. I suspect because maybe they don't think its going to be much of an upgrade versus BF2 but I would maybe just buy it for form factor and to stack it with Freya for example. Now it just feels wrong buying a Gungnir, why not just keep it up to date with latest...
> ...


I don’t think I’d be looking at buying a new one.. there’s a couple ones locallly for sale around $500.
IMHO it probably has something to do with availability of the chips…why the BF2/64 has TI CHIPS.
Part of it may be it’s construction does the length itself to easy upgrades too.
I have no clue.
My point was if you were looking for an upgraded sound I recall there was some positive differences and it may be an option for someone.
Especially if your into more jitter  prone sources
IMHO the BF2 is most likely going to incorporate TI chips in the future… so the meat and potatoes sound is probably disappearing in favor of that airy DS type sound and specs.
And there’s nothing wrong with it it just depennds which typed of sound you prefer


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> I don’t think I’d be looking at buying a new one.. there’s a couple ones locallly for sale around $500.
> IMHO it probably has something to do with availability of the chips…why the BF2/64 has TI CHIPS.
> Part of it may be it’s construction does the length itself to easy upgrades too.
> I have no clue.
> ...


If you're talking about the Gungnir Multibit, let me know where you can get one for around $500. That would be sweet!


----------



## automojo (Sep 20, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> If you're talking about the Gungnir Multibit, let me know where you can get one for around $500. That would be sweet!


You have to do some lengthy searching and be patient. I picked up a silver gen 5 at the beginning of the year off Cl for $450. It's on loan to a friend. There was another @Savers for around the same price. If you buy them of Epay/etc you paying higher obviously.
I will have to get it back sometime and compare to the BF2.
There is more then just a casual difference between the two-certainly image depth-but more then just that.
Also it does not have the TI chip signature sound.
Whether it's worth the difference-IMHO isn't a universal thing.


----------



## automojo

The one thing I will do at some point is do the Unison Board.
The Gen 5 isn't very good-IMHO.


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> You have to do some lengthy searching and be patient. I picked up a silver gen 5 at the beginning of the year off Cl for $450. It's on loan to a friend. There was another @Savers for around the same price. If you buy them of Epay/etc you paying higher obviously.
> I will have to get it back sometime and compare to the BF2.
> There is more then just a casual difference between the two-certainly image depth-but more then just that.
> Also it does not have the TI chip signature sound.
> Whether it's worth the difference-IMHO isn't a universal thing.


What is CI and are you talking about the Savers Thrift Stores?  Never heard of these sources for pre-owned gear.


----------



## automojo (Sep 20, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> What is CI and are you talking about the Savers Thrift Stores?  Never heard of these sources for pre-owned gear.


Craigslist
Yes savers thrift stores you never know what shows up there
It’s not a specific source for use high-end audio gear
Stuff like that probably wouldn’t stay very long because people buy it and flip it on eBay
The one I am referring to at savers was purchased by an audio friend of mine
He still using it I’m pretty sure it was like $200 at the most
Obviously not a normal occurrence but I think if you spend some time poking around you be surprised what you come up with
If you’re in a hurry for something that’s obviously not going to work
I’m always looking because I’m curious
I don’t need much audio gear now but if a bargain comes up I’ll snap it up,
And like the Gungnir, let another friend borrow it.
Just to add-another buddy of mine just bought a Gungnir from the The Music Room.
Made them a offer $280 less then the asking price and it was accepted._$600.
Most people bump the prices up-because you usually get offers for less.

Again-my original point was if you want to expand on the OGBF2 sound-IMHO your better of looking at a Gungnir MB, or a Yiggy non TI chip version.
The BF 2/64 seems to be going a different direction.
Either might not be a inexpensive proposition-but no one ever claimed this hobby was inexpensive.


----------



## RickB

For a little while now I've been having a very infrequent problem on my OG Bifrost 2 where the left channel will cut out. It always happens when I pause playback and when I unpause the left channel is dead. This happens very rarely, and cycling through the B2's inputs always brings back the left channel again. 

This started happening after installing the latest firmware update. Does this sound like a firmware or hardware problem?


----------



## automojo

RickB said:


> For a little while now I've been having a very infrequent problem on my OG Bifrost 2 where the left channel will cut out. It always happens when I pause playback and when I unpause the left channel is dead. This happens very rarely, and cycling through the B2's inputs always brings back the left channel again.
> 
> This started happening after installing the latest firmware update. Does this sound like a firmware or hardware problem?


I would shoot them an email- 5 year warranty


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## FellowTraveller (Sep 21, 2022)

Hi Everyone, I'm quite new to this particular online space. I'm here because I have a Bifrost 2 (OG) in a speaker-based setup that I purchased for my classroom, which I run in Thailand. And I really love the overall sound. I would say it's really a mid-fi system, but it sounds great to me, and it's good for many kinds of music as well as for a two-channel home theater for films, which are an important part of the course that I use my classroom for. I have an IOTAVX SA3 integrated amp, Triangle BR08 speakers, and the Bifrost 2, running mostly through my Macbook via the Unison USB but also through a CD and blu ray player. At the same time, I'm trying to decide, like many others, whether to buy the new card. I'm still undecided. What seems clear to me, especially from the great review by Wave Theory, but also from many comments, is that some people genuinely and definitively like the BF 2/64 sound better in their systems than the OG, and some people genuinely and definitively prefer the BF OG card. I doubt this will be resolved into full agreement, and it doesn't need to be. As others have pointed out, system synergy is a very big deal, as is personal taste. I would like to add that I think we sometimes underestimate the power of our own adaptation to a particular sound signature. In the larger scheme of things these decisions are pretty minor, I would say. At the same time I appreciate hearing people's thinking about what makes for the best kind of audio experience. I totally get the fascination with this side of life. I too want to find the best sound for the dollar. I also hope to eventually step more into the world of headphones, and to learn more about what would make for a reasonably good sounding headphone-based system. That will take a little time. Thank you for the learning your comments and shared experiences make possible. Reading them, I am able to make my own decisions a little more wisely.


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## automojo (Sep 21, 2022)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlNLr4aBKs8
This is a bit crude-but it brings back some recollection from me when I compared the 2.
If you listen carefully-you get the jest of it.
Frankly-never got the SE 'gimped' issue.
A slight level increase sure-as many preamps with XLR inputs have vs SE.

Double the voltage like XLR's are.
If you use good cables-in my experience the issue is moot - XLR cables… it’s much harder to tell differences between them.
With SE cables this isn't the case.
(I have to think most of this is the right balance of shielding-but I'm not a expert.)
The main advantage of XLR is less noise-especially over long cables runs.
(Maybe with head gear it's more noticeable?)
Nothing magic about them.
But it would be nice if home audio had made them a standard-because-IMHO you would not need the investment in expensive SE cables.
If the ‘gimped’ thingy bothers someone-Hosa makes $10 XLR-to RCA adapters.


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## TheFrator

FellowTraveller said:


> I have a Bifrost 2 (OG) in a speaker-based setup that I purchased for my classroom, which I run in Thailand.


Are you a music teacher? Regardless I wish I had a teacher like you!


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## FellowTraveller

TheFrator said:


> Are you a music teacher? Regardless I wish I had a teacher like you!


Haha. Thank you! That's kind of you to say. I'm an anthropologist who came to Thailand years ago to study the work of Buddhist social activists. Recently I created a three-month English and leadership course sponsored by one of the international Buddhist groups based in Thailand. The course is for young leaders around Asia who are working for change in their countries. I've always loved hifi, but never really had that much experience of it, and couldn't usually pay for it or justify the cost. But in the classroom with like 18 wonderful students, you realize that with a high quality sound system, every song you play and every movie you show is that much clearer (hearing dialog, hearing the instruments) and has that much more impact. So it makes for a lovely experience, as we all know. Buying the Bifrost 2 was a huge step for me, but I think it was the first time I truly experienced what people talk about as sound stage depth, instrument separation, and all of that. Instead of a wall of sound where you hear the melody and it's nice, it becomes a truly immersive experience. So what I'm describing is nothing new for all of you. But that's what I experienced when I included the BF 2 in my system.


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## cgb3

I read a review of another DAC. The part I remember, "a great DAC isn't for superlative playback of high resolution music files, it's for superlative playback of standard (16/44) and lessor files".

I've noticed superior audio from YouTube videos (especially music videos from the 80's and 90's) with the new 64 card. That alone warrants the purchase, sounding better on the UHD files is gravy.


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## kumar402

cgb3 said:


> I read a review of another DAC. The part I remember, "a great DAC isn't for superlative playback of high resolution music files, it's for superlative playback of standard (16/44) and lessor files".
> 
> I've noticed superior audio from YouTube videos (especially music videos from the 80's and 90's) with the new 64 card. That alone warrants the purchase, sounding better on the UHD files is gravy.


I don't agree with the statement. It's never about Hi Res or CD Quality. A good DAC will make good recordings sound good but will not make bad recordings sound good. A DAC which has lot of sins of omission will make bad recordings sound good.


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## automojo

FellowTraveller said:


> Haha. Thank you! That's kind of you to say. I'm an anthropologist who came to Thailand years ago to study the work of Buddhist social activists. Recently I created a three-month English and leadership course sponsored by one of the international Buddhist groups based in Thailand. The course is for young leaders around Asia who are working for change in their countries. I've always loved hifi, but never really had that much experience of it, and couldn't usually pay for it or justify the cost. But in the classroom with like 18 wonderful students, you realize that with a high quality sound system, every song you play and every movie you show is that much clearer (hearing dialog, hearing the instruments) and has that much more impact. So it makes for a lovely experience, as we all know. Buying the Bifrost 2 was a huge step for me, but I think it was the first time I truly experienced what people talk about as sound stage depth, instrument separation, and all of that. Instead of a wall of sound where you hear the melody and it's nice, it becomes a truly immersive experience. So what I'm describing is nothing new for all of you. But that's what I experienced when I included the BF 2 in my system.


Thanks for sharing.
I totally agree, the Bifrost 2OG is one of those rare and unique audio components that transcends its digital category.
Pretty cool stuff!


kumar402 said:


> I don't agree with the statement. It's never about Hi Res or CD Quality. A good DAC will make good recordings sound good but will not make bad recordings sound good. A DAC which has lot of sins of omission will make bad recordings sound good.


I agree with that for most Dacs/ components
The exception here is the BF2OG.
While  I have to admit I don’t critically listen with this DAC.. I can’t recall hearing anything bad through it XM, YOUTUBE… what have you.
Sure you can tell the differences between the qualities of the source, but everything is very listenable.
I can’t recall the time where I wanted to turn something off or “change the channel” because the quality was so miserable to listen to.


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## MacMan31

So I bought a micro SD card (with adapter) to do the firmware update on my BF2. Finally got the card to mount on my Mac after I realized the micro SD card was not completely into the adapter. But now I cannot get the card out of the adapter. It's stuck in there and it's smooth so there's no grip to pull it out. It's crappy design like this that makes me seriously question if we really went to the moon. Why could Schiit not make it so the firmware just passes via the USB cable??


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## automojo (Sep 22, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> So I bought a micro SD card (with adapter) to do the firmware update on my BF2. Finally got the card to mount on my Mac after I realized the micro SD card was not completely into the adapter. But now I cannot get the card out of the adapter. It's stuck in there and it's smooth so there's no grip to pull it out. It's crappy design like this that makes me seriously question if we really went to the moon. Why could Schiit not make it so the firmware just passes via the USB cable??


Thats sucks-I would assume because it makes the main board more complicated.
Micro sd cards are a POA no matter where you apply them. Regular SD cards are usually not a issue.
They should make a card holder with a 6 inch cable with a end that matches the card.


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## theeclone

MacMan31 said:


> So I bought a micro SD card (with adapter) to do the firmware update on my BF2. Finally got the card to mount on my Mac after I realized the micro SD card was not completely into the adapter. But now I cannot get the card out of the adapter. It's stuck in there and it's smooth so there's no grip to pull it out. It's crappy design like this that makes me seriously question if we really went to the moon. Why could Schiit not make it so the firmware just passes via the USB cable??


My guess is it's cheaper and easier to handle firmware updates with an sd card. Unison usb is a completely custom implementation designed to do one thing really well: transport digital audio. I would have to believe that expanding it to somehow also know when it's being asked to update firmware would be a pretty big effort.


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## MacMan31

automojo said:


> Thats sucks-I would assume because it makes the main board more complicated.
> Micro sd cards are a POA no matter where you apply them. Regular SD cards are usually not a issue.
> They should make a card holder with a 6 inch cable with a end that matches the card.



I'll have to get an external micro SD card reader and another card. They are not very expensive but it's still annoying.


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## MacMan31

theeclone said:


> My guess is it's cheaper and easier to handle firmware updates with an sd card. Unison usb is a completely custom implementation designed to do one thing really well: transport digital audio. I would have to believe that expanding it to somehow also know when it's being asked to update firmware would be a pretty big effort.



Yeah perhaps. I do also once in a while get audio cutting out when playing via my MacBook Pro with the BF2. But just unplugging and re-plugging into my Mac seems to fix it. Still annoying though. But my Mac is also seven years old.


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## automojo

Unison rocks-never had a issue-but I runs pc's.
It sounds way better then Gen 5-or previous USB card, well worth updating those old Gungnir MB's


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## sahmen

automojo said:


> Unison rocks-never had a issue-but I runs pc's.
> It sounds way better then Gen 5-or previous USB card, well worth updating those old Gungnir MB's


+1 I just hooked up my Bi-Frost 2/64 yesterday when it arrived. It's paired with  a Singxer S-a1 and a schiit Lokius which I have never felt any need to remove from by-pass mode, because the 2/64 and Sa-1 are singing so beautifully together, they're making me wonder why I hesitated before getting the 2/64.  

The most surprising part is how close the performance of this Bi-Frost 2/64 + Singxer sa-1 pairing comes to my more expensive pairings, such as Niimbus US4 + Sonnet Morpheus or the Yggy (OG) A2 + Pathos InPol Ear pairings for a mere fraction of the price.

I never heard the original Bi-Frost 2, so I can't compare the 2, but the sound of the 2/64 is so satisfying and refined to these ears that I do not think I would want it to sound any different.

One question I have is about burn in effects... Should I expect them to make a difference in this particular case?  How many hours of "burn-in" might the Bi-Frost 2/64 require in order to hit its own stride? Both the 2/64 and the singxer sa-1 are new, so if burn-in benefits are to be expected, then it's kind of scary to wonder how much better each is going to get, as they already sound very good.

Here's another minor question : Is it safe to leave the Schiit Lokius and the singxer on all the time?  The manual of the Bifrost 2/64 specifically says that it's okay to leave it on all the time, which is what I was already doing with my Yggy A2, but I would like to know whether the Lokius and the singxer also do not mind being left on all the time.


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## automojo (Sep 22, 2022)

Leave them ON IMHO.
I never turn my BF2 off-unless I'm going away for awhile.
Run the BF for a week at least.
Both the original BFMB, and BF2 took a week or 2 to fully get settles down.
A fully broken in BF2 warms up in about 1/2 hour-very unlike the Yig or Gumby, or Bifrost MB
That's interesting you find the 2/64 closer to the Yiggy.
That's what I was assuming from the descriptions and spending extended Yiggy A2.
The OG BF2 reminds me of a Denon DL160.
Accurate?
Accurate enough IMHO-but highly musical, and making even crappy L/P's listenable.


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## TheTechQ

theeclone said:


> My guess is it's cheaper and easier to handle firmware updates with an sd card. Unison usb is a completely custom implementation designed to do one thing really well: transport digital audio. I would have to believe that expanding it to somehow also know when it's being asked to update firmware would be a pretty big effort.


Simple answer would be that using a micro SD card doesn't require a computer. There are some people who only have cell phones these days as a phone can do almost all that a computer can do. To do the upgrade via a computer, they would need an interface that would work on all device types and then support those different devices. By using a Micro SD card, they can just mail you a card if you have trouble making one. Much easier to support.


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## cgb3

automojo said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> I totally agree, the Bifrost 2OG is one of those rare and unique audio components that transcends its digital category.
> Pretty cool stuff!
> 
> ...


Note to self: refer to Buddhist master the next time I have to justify equipment purchases.

You only lose what you cling to.


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## cgb3

sahmen said:


> +1 I just hooked up my Bi-Frost 2/64 yesterday when it arrived. It's paired with  a Singxer S-a1 and a schiit Lokius which I have never felt any need to remove from by-pass mode, because the 2/64 and Sa-1 are singing so beautifully together, they're making me wonder why I hesitated before getting the 2/64.
> 
> The most surprising part is how close the performance of this Bi-Frost 2/64 + Singxer sa-1 pairing comes to my more expensive pairings, such as Niimbus US4 + Sonnet Morpheus or the Yggy (OG) A2 + Pathos InPol Ear pairings for a mere fraction of the price.
> 
> ...


Burn in: I installed the 2/64 card 10 August, and I discerned an immediate difference. Better, but not a "knock-out". I considered reinstalling the original card for an A-B test, with thoughts of sending the 2/64 card back.

I listen most days 4+ hours. The last several weeks, I feel like the system has energized to a new level. The best change has been with low quality audio files, eg., YouTube videos (I'm a sucker for old music videos).

The 2/64 card was a wise investment.


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## MacMan31

I wonder if someone has compared the 2/64 with other DACs like the Denefrips Ares II?


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## theveterans

I just went back to OS mode for a day with my BF2 OG. It is definitive that the NOS presentation solidified my preference with its better instrument placement and seductive vocals to my ears without sacrificing resolution and clarity


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## automojo (Sep 22, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Burn in: I installed the 2/64 card 10 August, and I discerned an immediate difference. Better, but not a "knock-out". I considered reinstalling the original card for an A-B test, with thoughts of sending the 2/64 card back.
> 
> I listen most days 4+ hours. The last several weeks, I feel like the system has energized to a new level. The best change has been with low quality audio files, eg., YouTube videos (I'm a sucker for old music videos).
> 
> The 2/64 card was a wise investment.


Sure
I think it would be interesting to compare the 2/64 to the Gungnir… maybe they’re closer than I originally thought…even with the TI chips… 
To me it’s not a linear progression.. but a different path… for whatever reason chip supply issues.. etc.
For myself… there was too many good things about OG version to motivate me to change it.
Not sure if Thich Nhat Hanh would help my audio enjoyment?…but who knows…
Come to think of it I could think of a lot worse alternatives.. with a 30 second boob tube flash of current events!


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## theveterans

I found an interesting take on DAC pairing with a SET headphone amp (DNA Stellaris) that could explain my preference for the BF2 OG NOS sound when paired with my own SET headphone amp (ampsandsound Forge).










His statements led me to once again support why I find better synergy with NOS BF2 (its denser timbre and liquid mids and slightly rolled highs minus on NOS mode or in his terms = classic R2R DAC sound) just pairs up so well with my SET headphone amp (makes sense since SET headphone amps are typically more neutral/incisive in texture than warm/thick in the bass/subbass category contrary to the tube = warm sound mantra). I also briefly demoed the Lyr+ in SS mode while in CanJam and actually preferred the BF2/64 in the OS filter. BF2/64 NOS makes Lyr+ sound too warm for my tastes


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## MacMan31

That second clip seems to suggest I might prefer something like a Denefrips Ares II over the BF2.


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## automojo

_Second statement sounds exactly like a DAC Box S FL._


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## automojo

automojo said:


> _Second statement sounds exactly like a DAC Box S FL._


And that’s a great sounding DAC when fully warmed up.
The problem I have found is it doesn’t always work for all types of music.
Especially synthesize base type music.
But others as well, I just can’t recall at this time.


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## automojo

Frankly if anyone’s interested
 this is probably the wrong forum to listening to  the MUSE Version of this… send me a PM I know I have one stored way somewhere with a power supply
TDA1543a x 4.
They pretty much sound identical, at least you get the jest of the sound


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## timiambeing

automojo said:


> A fully broken in BF2 warms up in about 1/2 hour-very unlike the Yig or Gumby, or Bifrost MB


Hello! Can I jump into your conversations please, I would love to pull the trigger on a BF2 but with ladder DAC’s in my speaker system I have always believed they need to be on all the time… and this cant happen with my headphone listening station. It is a bedside cabinet on wheels, with a rack and power installed, power goes off after every listen as it moves from room to room as required. Would I be able to warm up my BF2 if I bought one in 20-30mins like the rest of the stack then? If so this is no longer a deal breaker…


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## automojo

timiambeing said:


> Hello! Can I jump into your conversations please, I would love to pull the trigger on a BF2 but with ladder DAC’s in my speaker system I have always believed they need to be on all the time… and this cant happen with my headphone listening station. It is a bedside cabinet on wheels, with a rack and power installed, power goes off after every listen as it moves from room to room as required. Would I be able to warm up my BF2 if I bought one in 20-30mins like the rest of the stack then? If so this is no longer a deal breaker…


Yep-should be fine


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## Neweymatt

timiambeing said:


> Hello! Can I jump into your conversations please, I would love to pull the trigger on a BF2 but with ladder DAC’s in my speaker system I have always believed they need to be on all the time… and this cant happen with my headphone listening station. It is a bedside cabinet on wheels, with a rack and power installed, power goes off after every listen as it moves from room to room as required. Would I be able to warm up my BF2 if I bought one in 20-30mins like the rest of the stack then? If so this is no longer a deal breaker…


More like 5 minutes max.  This was something I wondered about before I bought mine, but the reality is that it's only the first minute or 2 you may notice a slight treble glare or harshness, but it's gone pretty quickly if you even notice it in the first place.


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## timiambeing

Neweymatt said:


> More like 5 minutes max.  This was something I wondered about before I bought mine, but the reality is that it's only the first minute or 2 you may notice a slight treble glare or harshness, but it's gone pretty quickly if you even notice it in the first place.


Thanks both! That makes a huge difference to my choice   I realise nuggets of perceived wisdom about things like this are handed down and often we haven’t even tried it ourselves (I’m guilty if that for sure!) so it’s great to receive some first hand experience.


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## FellowTraveller

timiambeing said:


> Hello! Can I jump into your conversations please, I would love to pull the trigger on a BF2 but with ladder DAC’s in my speaker system I have always believed they need to be on all the time… and this cant happen with my headphone listening station. It is a bedside cabinet on wheels, with a rack and power installed, power goes off after every listen as it moves from room to room as required. Would I be able to warm up my BF2 if I bought one in 20-30mins like the rest of the stack then? If so this is no longer a deal breaker…


I turn my BF2 on in the morning usually a little before I start my work and/or listening day. I turn it off every night. I don't notice any problems at all, and I would like to second the other two commentators who think you won't have any problems.


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## decooney (Sep 28, 2022)

*New Bifrost 2/64 arrived *yesterday from Schiit.

Here is my early burn-in report since some people say they cannot hear a difference from new. I sure can.  I don't normally post here but saw this related thread.

Running it in on my main system, all tube power preamp and tube mono block amps.  Large custom separate main speakers and stereo subs. Comparing the BF264 to my other MHDT Orchid R2R Tube Ladder NOS DAC which I like quite a bit. Followed the 2/64 design changes enough to buy/try it.  All of the best previews came from you head-fi folks - right here.  Appreciate what Schiit is doing in search of real value.  Giving this dac a serious evaluation.

Day 1-2 burn-in:

@hr1 cold startup the BF264 is slightly forward stage and little grainy first hour of play time - as expected.
@hr5 started smoothing out some at about 5hrs of constant-on play time. Stage opened a tad, and recessed back slightly.
@hr24 a little more smoothing and some midrange glare disappeared that I was hearing in the first warmup hours.  Gone now.
BASS:  for whatever reason around 24-28hrs a little more low octive bass started coming in. Having to click down both subs a notch.
MIDS: some of the forward stage midrange I noticed in the early burn-in hours settled down a little more. Settled back some now. Nice.
HIGH: no grain, smooth, can still hear detail yet its ever so slightly rolled off in a nice way. Detail w/o too much sizzle. Perfect, actually.

Burn-in?:
I suspect what @automojo reported earlier about _"needing to let it run in for at least a week"_ is true for me based on what I hear so far. My plan is to turn it on early morning on the days i plan to listen to it later in the afternoons or leave it on over weekends for sure. All my gear sounds its best with at least 4+hrs power on, no debate, just what I do. Applies more to my big pre / amps with massive transformers that sound magical once fully heat saturated.

Filters:
I'm enjoying the sound of the Megacomboburrito filter mode more than I thought I would. NOS switch mode is nice, and enjoying both modes in different ways.

Early observations:
Already liking what I'm hearing and particularly so far for the price. Sounds "alive", nice tone, guitar, piano keys, voices, nice.  Premature to jump to conclusions yet this might be a keeper. Sounds unique enough to want to keep it. Finding myself wanting to listen to every track vs. skipping around. A very good sign on my end.
FUN to listen to music so far with this new 2/64 dac. I helped a few buddies on their systems over the years to buy Schiit, yet this is my very first Schiit product.

Appreciate what you guys do here on this forum, Thx.


----------



## timiambeing

decooney said:


> *New Bifrost 2/64 arrived *yesterday from Schiit.
> 
> Here is my early burn-in report since some people say they cannot hear a difference from new. I sure can.  I don't normally post here but saw this related thread.
> 
> ...


Yes I can certainly second that, not for every component I’ve ever had, but certainly the middle to upper end stuff. The last long burn in was for my Denafrips DAC, I really didn’t like it out of the box, a few hours later when I listened things were better, about 24 hours and a milestone seemed to be reached, 48 hours and it had given all it was going to give. Hard edged to start off with, loosening up and opening out, followed by sloppy bass then eventually bass stretching out and tightening - daft I know but that’s how it seems to go!  

I don’t know about you, but I don’t listen during burn in, just a snatch every few hours maybe (can’t resist!) - because you are burning in your ears to brain interface as well of course, the music happens in your head, what hits your ears is just wind!


----------



## automojo

I agree when I first got my BF OG, I listen to it for a couple minutes and that was it.
IMHO It didn’t sound very good, and I clued in my wife and kids what was going on with the breaking period… as the system is enjoyed by the whole family, and the wife works at home.
Every day or two I would take a quick lesson but my strategy was to go for a week.
But even after a week it’s still took a couple more weeks to really settle in and stop changing.
But after a week you’re getting the majority of what it’s gonna sound like the rest is just fine tuning.
And I’m sure a lot of people I’ll say it’s just your ears, but it’s really not.
I’ve trained myself to be a pretty good listener over the last decade plus, and I make myself a lot of notes as reference so I’ve got a pretty good idea what happening.
You’re mine can play tricks on you but there’s a number of different things you can do to become a good listener to offset that tendency.
Differences in system resolution can mean some of these changes might be slightly different or less evident as well.


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## decooney (Sep 28, 2022)

@timiambeing @automojo your practice and findings are consistent with what I'm experiencing in the first few days. Totally agree, 2/64 did not sound good the first few hours, kinda weird and artificial sounding at first. Also agree others may not be able to hear a difference - and that may be the case for them. Not all of us though.   Some of that early weirdness all changed in day-2 for this new 2/64 in my rig. I don't make a lot of sudden changes in my system. Done a lot of cable testing-evals, past 30+ years, evals/demos for a few MFGs. This helped me to learn how to listen closely, and what to listen for in my own system, setup, room.

While I typically don't do any serious listening in the first few weeks with any product i do track some changes and make notes in a similar manner. I always have to make sure the rest of my gear is warm/settled in before doing any a/b comparison on components like this.

Last night I definitely heard a very nice change with some tracks and smoothing of instruments in the back stage.  There are a few tracks that I re-use for listening for particular instruments, guitars, placement in the stage, grain/texture, tone, piano keys, and overall presentation of the track. The new Schiit Bifrost 2/64 is going in the right direction so far. Starting to become musical now too. 

Good to know you continued to hear some change over time going in to week 1-2.  Duly noted. I'll wait the full 2 weeks before making any real judgements. Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## decooney

I did notice a change to sound-stage depth and tone with one instrument after 48hrs of constant power-on time though. Will recheck at week-1, end of week-2.


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## automojo (Sep 28, 2022)

Sure.
I still think ideally -if you can-you just leave it powered up.
After 10 years or so-if a power supply cap goes bad-oh well.
I leave my on unless going away for a couple days.
Schiit more or less suggests this-with ut actually mentioning it specifically.
"It's ok to leave it on"


----------



## Farrellc

automojo said:


> Sure.
> I still think ideally -if you can-you just leave it powered up.
> After 10 years or so-if a power supply cap goes bad-oh well.
> I leave my on unless going away for a couple days.
> ...


Interesting, I'll have to give this a try. Normally I shut mine down every night, but I might just leave it running for a couple of days and see if I notice a change over that time.


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## mformoriarty

Have any you guys compared the 2/64 vs the iFi Zen Dac Signature V2? I'd like to know your thoughts.


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## timiambeing (Sep 30, 2022)

Farrellc said:


> Interesting, I'll have to give this a try. Normally I shut mine down every night, but I might just leave it running for a couple of days and see if I notice a change over that time.


Can I just interject here, someone once told me (like someone once told me to leave everything on) that when I was happy with the initial burn in process I should listen and confirm how things sounded, then I should switch off the DAC (Denafrips R2R I had just bought) over night, better still 24hrs. Then, cold stone sober I should switch it on again and listen to see if it was worse or what.

Now removing confirmation bias is impossible, so of course I did expect it to sound worse, but actually the opposite was true. It sounded much more open and free, lots of air. The individual who told me this was an engineer and he knew how electrolytic capacitors worked, he said that letting them ‘breath’ by removing current was the best way to finish the burning in process and he recommended an overnight switch off for the entire system every few weeks or so. Certainly when I have family visitors staying I always turn the entire gubbins off at the wall and leave it that way till they go a week or ten days later. I’ve never felt there was anything lacking when I next sit down to do some critical listening, I have a valve amp so everything gets switched on at least 20 minutes before I play music anyway.

PS. I have had systems that’s sound awful when cold, but that’s because there was an awful mismatch somewhere in the chain! Over a half hour or so the brain/ear interface adjusts to properly extract the music from the less than easy to decipher data it is receiving and things start to sound much better. I have found that well matched separates sound absolutely great from cold, if they don’t then something is off. And no matter how well matched the system it will always likely sound better after that initial brain/ear interface adjustment, the more you are used to the sound, the less time is required for the brain to adjust.


----------



## automojo

mformoriarty said:


> Have any you guys compared the 2/64 vs the iFi Zen Dac Signature V2? I'd like to know your thoughts.


IMHO… if this is the type of sound you like… try a Schiit Modi 3+


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## mformoriarty

automojo said:


> IMHO… if this is the type of sound you like… try a Schiit Modi 3+


I had one previous to the zen dac signature v2. While I liked the Modi, I felt iFi's dac was an upgrade at the time although the HFM Zen Can amp that was paired with it influenced my decision quite a bit. I was just wondering what the 2/64 brought to the table in comparison, seeing as it's limited to a cap of 24bit 196khz (more than enough tho) while the other one can do basically anything (pcm, dsd, lossy mqa).


----------



## cgb3

timiambeing said:


> Hello! Can I jump into your conversations please, I would love to pull the trigger on a BF2 but with ladder DAC’s in my speaker system I have always believed they need to be on all the time… and this cant happen with my headphone listening station. It is a bedside cabinet on wheels, with a rack and power installed, power goes off after every listen as it moves from room to room as required. Would I be able to warm up my BF2 if I bought one in 20-30mins like the rest of the stack then? If so this is no longer a deal breaker…


Simple UPS would do the job. I question your criteria. Let the DAC de-energize, and re-energize. Nothing major lost. This isn't life support. Your dac isn't 100% for some minutes/days? So what?

I lost power for 2 hrs. today as a result of hurricane Ian (I have an APC UPS that all my computer/broadband/music stuff is plugged to. About 8 minutes battery power, enough to shut everything down, automatically). I was lucky. The street behind me is still without power. Many areas of Florida, and other southern states will be without power for days.

Good luck with your requirements.


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## automojo (Sep 30, 2022)

mformoriarty said:


> I had one previous to the zen dac signature v2. While I liked the Modi, I felt iFi's dac was an upgrade at the time although the HFM Zen Can amp that was paired with it influenced my decision quite a bit. I was just wondering what the 2/64 brought to the table in comparison, seeing as it's limited to a cap of 24bit 196khz (more than enough tho) while the other one can do basically anything (pcm, dsd, lossy mqa).


A Schiit  MB DAC is going to be more lively, dynamic textured and analog sounding then a typical DS DAC.
They generally are a more meat and potatoes thicker textured sound.. with plenty of bass weight  vs the Airy.. technically more accurate lighter presentation of the typical mid priced DS DAC.
IMHO… The best feature is like the old days… spinning a l/p.
You’re thinking about the music, not thinking about your gear.


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## mformoriarty (Oct 1, 2022)

automojo said:


> A Schiit  MB DAC is going to be more lively, dynamic textured and analog sounding then a typical DS DAC.
> They generally are a more meat and potatoes thicker textured sound.. with plenty of bass weight  vs the Airy.. technically more accurate lighter presentation of the typical mid priced DS DAC.
> IMHO… The best feature is like the old days… spinning a l/p.
> You’re thinking about the music, not thinking about your gear.


I got the Aryas V3 recently, I spend hours in a day just listening to random music, music I generally don't enjoy. It's been an awesome experience. If anything can improve on this, I'm gonna be mind blown. I got curious about that and the new 2/64 came across my path. The amp, that one I'm definitely not changing anytime soon. The HFM setting on the Zen Can, basically a glorified xbass specifically for HFM headphones is just too damn good. But I am all for a natural tonality aside from that HFM setting. So what you describe sounds very nice. On a side note, I have an xduoo TA-26 for some Sivgas SV023 and I was also curious and how the bifrost may affect the tonality there. I may try it after all.


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## automojo

mformoriarty said:


> I got the Aryas V3 recently, I spend hours in a day just listening to random music, music I generally don't enjoy. It's been an awesome experience. If anything can improve on this, I'm gonna be mind blown. I got curious about that and the new 2/64 came across my path. The amp, that one I'm definitely not changing anytime soon. The HFM setting on the Zen Can, basically a glorified xbass specifically for HFM headphones is just too damn good. But I am all for a natural tonality aside from that HFM setting. So what you describe sounds very nice. On a side note, I have an xduoo TA-26 for some Sivgas SV023 and I was also curious and how the bifrost may affect the tonality there. I may try it after all.


I agree, I think I would give it a try.
I’m thinking it will be a keeper.


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## automojo

As far as warmup, leaving it on… do whatever work for your lifestyle.
I learned from the older MB’s- just as easy to leave it on.
Perhaps a waste of power.. obviously up to the user to decide.
Warm up time, according to Schiit has to do with bit depth.
Incidentally , it seems they leave their MB Dacs in as well.


----------



## Luckyleo

automojo said:


> As far as warmup, leaving it on… do whatever work for your lifestyle.
> I learned from the older MB’s- just as easy to leave it on.
> Perhaps a waste of power.. obviously up to the user to decide.
> Warm up time, according to Schiit has to do with bit depth.
> Incidentally , it seems they leave their MB Dacs in as well.


As I recall, Jason has indicated that early in his partnership with Mike, they had to work out whether or not to even have an on/off switch on the equipment.  Mike had very strong opinions that there shouldn't be one.  Plug it in, and be done!  Jason won, and today we have that on/off switch on the back......


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## automojo

The Project DAC BOX FL didn’t have a power switch either.
Not even a source switch!
I get the point.
For the small amount of power it takes versus everything else you have in your house- why not just leave it on?
Then when you’re ready to listen, it’s at optimum capability.
Why over think it?


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## decooney (Oct 1, 2022)

Power Switch:
I'm glad Jason won the common sense debate on this one to keep the rear switch.   We have power outages in our area some times. Easier access to flip the switch on the back than unplugging the thing with a weighty upgraded power cord on the back. Likely to turn it off super faste (when needed) with a switch on the back and pull the plug if necessary. Loving the size of this thing, its easy to access everything and put it where you want it, glad to see IEC plug on the back.

Power-On time:
Beggining testing with 5 days of constant power-on vs. 5hr vs. 1hr power-on before use.  It does not get super hot but it does get warm, and not seeing ventilation on top/bottom/sides of the chassis makes it toasty inside.  Long term heat causes breakdown of internal components no matter what. I like this new BF 2/64 well enough now to say it may be a longer term keeper.  Want it to last.  So, I'll likely turn it on the "morning of" or night prior on the days or weekends I plan to listen to it.

Burn-In: (first 1-5 days)
No doubt the new BF 2/64 benefits from at least 72 hours of power-on and play time since new -and- switching back an forth between the MegaComboBurrrito filter and NOS mode. I ran the MCB filter four days straight new out of the box.  Then switched to NOS mode, weird, it sounded strange first 45 min in NOS mode even though the dac had been on four days straight.  I sent a note to Schiit asking why, and at 45 min the whole dac opened up greatly almost like the sound of a new device with internal coupling caps forming when new. Not sure what it was the first time flipping to NOS mode but it was veiled over, closed in, and not open - then all of the sudden everything changed at 45 min after the dac had been operating in NOS mode. Now at 5 days, BF 2/64 is nice, open, clean, smooth, musical. Gonna play it again all weekend and see if another few % of benefit surfaces.  For sure though, this thing needs at least the first 72 hours of power-on play time if its a brand new dac.


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## cglin222

Thinking of picking up lokius, jot2 and bifrost2 but what color do people get now? Since the silver increased in price, plus color matches on silver. But then why knobs on black is silver except lokius


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## automojo

Silver knobs on black looks pretty cool in my opinion


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## SolaVirtus

Depends on what you're picky about, I guess. I like the silver, but the pattern/texture might vary, depending on which model and when it was made. My silver Jot2/BF2 stack doesn't perfectly match, but I'm probably the only one that would notice. I'm not crazy about the silver knob on the black models, but if I had a matching stack it would be just fine.


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## bcowen

cglin222 said:


> Thinking of picking up lokius, jot2 and bifrost2 but what color do people get now? Since the silver increased in price, plus color matches on silver. But then why knobs on black is silver except lokius


You can always re-knob it.   🤣


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## BShaw

bcowen said:


> You can always re-knob it.   🤣


So glad this is a classy enough place that no one stooped to knob-job jokes.


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## Ripper2860

That's because you beat me to it.  😒


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## decooney (Oct 1, 2022)

cglin222 said:


> Thinking of picking up lokius, jot2 and bifrost2 but what color do people get now? Since the silver increased in price, plus color matches on silver. But then why knobs on black is silver except lokius



If you don't want to remove the switch, scuff, and paint it with spray paint, or semi-flat black electrical tape and a razor. The dac is worth more than color of a switch if you just leave it alone.  Its subtle as-is. My only silver button in my rig right now. Looks nice as-is, imo.

In Silver its easy to locate (by design) at night when room lights are low - - if you are switching  from Megacomboburrito filter to NOS mode and back.


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## decooney (Oct 1, 2022)

*Digital Filter *modes (Bifrost 2/64):


*NOS *mode - pulsing light.  Sounds neutral to me. Nice and flat frequency presentation. No boost. Stage is placed well. 


*Megacomboburrito *mode - solid light.  Sounds a little boosted in lower register bass. Boosted in upper register detail.  

Speaker room setup, no headphones.  
In my case, I  run custom 12" active-powered Scanspeak stereo subwoofers (one on each side) barely turned up and it sounds best in NOS mode for my particular setup.  When I switch to Megacomboburrito filter mode there is a little too much bass-boost for my setup and room.

With subs, some may prefer NOS mode.  With no active subwoofers some might prefer the MCB filter mode.

Fun to be able to easily switch between filter modes, your experience may vary in different setups and rooms.

Not sure how it sounds on headphones.  May need to get some


----------



## Neweymatt

cglin222 said:


> Thinking of picking up lokius, jot2 and bifrost2 but what color do people get now? Since the silver increased in price, plus color matches on silver. But then why knobs on black is silver except lokius


Depends what you like and if paying more just for the colour bothers you.


SolaVirtus said:


> Depends on what you're picky about, I guess. I like the silver, but the pattern/texture might vary, depending on which model and when it was made. My silver Jot2/BF2 stack doesn't perfectly match, but I'm probably the only one that would notice. I'm not crazy about the silver knob on the black models, but if I had a matching stack it would be just fine.


Same, for whatever reason my BF2 is not quite as 'silver' as the Jot2, but the room has to be bright enough to notice it, and I'm not the type to care about this at all.

If I get a Lokius I'd probably get black just to have one bit of schiit different to the other 2. And with the tanking $AU, I'd have to make it up to my inner cheapskate somehow...


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## automojo (Oct 1, 2022)

Huh… I have a black Van Alstine Transcendence 10RB tube preamp.
Standard are black knobs… the silver ones make it look way better IMHO.. goes with the lettering.
Just my opinion , as long as the stuff looks decent, not all beat up, I’m fine.


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## cgb3

cglin222 said:


> Thinking of picking up lokius, jot2 and bifrost2 but what color do people get now? Since the silver increased in price, plus color matches on silver. But then why knobs on black is silver except lokius


There's only one color. Silver. I'd pay much more than Schiit is asking for the silver version.

Yea, there's some color differences (silver) in my units. So what? They're aluminium covers.


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## timiambeing

Just for anyone who might be into classical and might be thinking of running a Bifrost 2 with their planers... 

After much deliberation and help here I managed to secure a pre-owned Bifrost 2 to audition (seems like the only available Bifrost 2 in the UK?) and was really looking forward to seeing how it improved on my little Soncoz LA-QXD1 I am looking to upgrade. I've read all the reviews so was expecting the R2R type 'realness' yet still an open airy top end, what I got in comparison to the Soncoz was a more deliberate presentation, not at all unpleasant, but something was definitely lacking. After lots of swapping backwards and forwards (both units had been on and playing all morning so nicely warmed up) I realised I needed to get serious because what I was hearing wasn't what I was expecting from a £199 vs £720 comparison. 

So I organised a Roon group and connected both DAC's via USB to identical P4's running Ropieee so all I needed to do was mute and swap the RCA's to my Rebel amp between each listening. I really wanted to hear the better and more expensive DAC make a clear case for itself, but it definitely didn't do that. First of all I'm not too sure why Schiit make all this fuss about their USB input, its ok, so is the Soncoz - but coax had the slight edge via the Allo DgiOne HAT (when I tried that in desperation trying to find the Bifrost's best side!). I was expecting Unison to improve the Pi USB as that's what I presume it is for, but it seems the Pi4 USB is quite fine enough anyway.

Listening to a varied selection of music it was hard to put my finger on what was missing when I switched to the Bifrost, certainly everything was there, just put together a bit differently. So I resorted to exclusively comparing the two with the music they will be used to listen to, classical, and chose a favourite Sibelius symphony with lots of texture, rumble, massed strings and the works. Here it became obvious the Bifrost was not resolving the same kind of detail the Soncoz was, you could say the Soncoz was just less subtle and sharper in the treble, but it was more than that. In passages you would consider fillers leading to the main deal on the Bifrost, the Soncoz delivered those subtle audible 'build up' clues that made the hairs on the neck stand up. The bowing texture of massed strings for instance was really obvious, it was clearly lots of strings and lots of bow hairs. When switching to the Bifrost however the same sounds were most definitely there, but the texture and detail was recessed. I'm not going to use words like smeared or rounded off as that's not the case, but for classical music the way the Bifrost put those digit back together made whole sections of the piece uninteresting to listen to, subtle clues were not presented as the finer details were absorbed into the mix. Maybe there is a case to be put for delivering all the data without prejudice in the way these modern delta sigma DAC's do, leaving the ears to pick out what to focus on - even though I am and always will be a fan of manufacturers that go a different route and bring some organics into their designs.

What I am describing is most likely the expected multi-bit effect, and I am sure if you weren't comparing with a typically clean and clear delta sigma DAC and you were perhaps making a better case for the Bifrost with the type of music you were listening to (several reviewers have said its so much fun on dense rock and electronic) all would be hunky dory. I have experience with R2R DAC's in the main system and always the difference is more about 'reality' and the tonal representation, detail is there but its less digital and more 'real', maybe for that you need a proper resister ladder and not a multi-bit chip? The real eye opener however is how the little baby Soncoz stood up and delivered such a performance that I can now look upon with greater respect! Today it seems great DAC's start at £100 (the little Topping E30 I had also punched well above its weight!) and the difference as you go up the 'ladder' is not what you might expect!

I might try the Soncoz SGD1, not for vast improvements as I wouldn't expect that now, but maybe for more of the same Soncoz style with a little bit of layering, placement and depth information possibly? Its fun and its my hobby, and I dare say I shall have dozens of DAC's and amps and headphones before I slope off into the big hifi show in the sky, but what an interesting time to be buying electronics! I am not of the ASR opinion that all DAC's sound the same and that measurements are all, but certainly the quest for great measuring DAC's has levelled the playing field don't you think? Plus getting that synergy right with different methods of delivering those digits and matching that with appropriate amp and phones is a lifelong pursuit.

Just thought I would drop my findings here, your mileage I am sure may well be different as not only do we have different systems but more importantly different ears!


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## automojo (Oct 2, 2022)

Nice review.
I agree.. if I was listening  heavily to classical music, the BF2 would not be my first choice.
But then again mine plays through Heil and Emit speakers.


----------



## MacMan31

automojo said:


> Nice review.
> I agree.. if I was listening  heavily to classical music, the BF2 would not be my first choice.
> But then again mine plays through Heil and Emit speakers.



So what would you recommend for classical or instrumental type music?


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## automojo (Oct 2, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> So what would you recommend for classical or instrumental type music?


Well, I think if you have highly resolving speakers- classical sounds more then good.
(I listen to all types a genres.
And the IG BF2 does all of them IMHO more the justice.)
Myself I use a pair of recapped and modded Infinity RSiiia’s and highly modded ESS AMT 3’ with Great Heils
But I could certainly think a Chord DAC would be on my short list if I was heavily into classical music.
It’s like Chords DACS have a  voicing sound ideal for this type of music, jazz and folk.


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## timiambeing

MacMan31 said:


> So what would you recommend for classical or instrumental type music?


I think I’m maybe now coming to the conclusion that all those, what I used to call boring and analytical well measuring Chinese DACs (based on one example years back) might be the way forward? One could argue if the source is at least pumping out ‘everything‘ then if we want to tweak our sound for a more organic and ’real’ feel maybe further down the chain is best?

The problem is, which boring and analytical Chinese DAC to sample next? Topping have dozens, SMSL bring out a new one with a new flavour every week it seems. Plus most of them are not available in the UK except via Chinese source or Amazon with a long wait (from Chinese source) even Soncoz now don’t seem to be stocked by Amazon UK. Looking at UK mail order hifi stores it’s all the usual suspects we don’t really ever talk about on here, Lehman, Audiolab, iFi, Musical Fidelity, Cirrus - the usual dealer mark-up brands.

I’ve studied every YouTube video review on the planet, going back over the last couple of years or so, and it’s really just Topping, SMSL, Aune, Soncoz, Singxer, Gustard as the major delta-sigma DAC players - Chord FPGA DAC’s are a little outside my range in this situation, I’m talking in the £500-700 ish price bracket really.

So who’s tried what and what did you find? 😎


----------



## MacMan31

automojo said:


> Well, I think if you have highly resolving speakers- classical sounds more then good.
> (I listen to all types a genres.
> And the IG BF2 does all of them IMHO more the justice.)
> Myself I use a pair of recapped and modded Infinity RSiiia’s and highly modded ESS AMT 3’ with Great Heils
> ...



I've never tried a Chord DAC. But it seems except the Mojo they are fairly expensive. Easily over a thousand dollars. 



timiambeing said:


> I think I’m maybe now coming to the conclusion that all those, what I used to call boring and analytical well measuring Chinese DACs (based on one example years back) might be the way forward? One could argue if the source is at least pumping out ‘everything‘ then if we want to tweak our sound for a more organic and ’real’ feel maybe further down the chain is best?
> 
> The problem is, which boring and analytical Chinese DAC to sample next? Topping have dozens, SMSL bring out a new one with a new flavour every week it seems. Plus most of them are not available in the UK except via Chinese source or Amazon with a long wait (from Chinese source) even Soncoz now don’t seem to be stocked by Amazon UK. Looking at UK mail order hifi stores it’s all the usual suspects we don’t really ever talk about on here, Lehman, Audiolab, iFi, Musical Fidelity, Cirrus - the usual dealer mark-up brands.
> 
> ...



I've had a Topping D70, Drop SDAC balanced, Marantz HD-DAC1 in the past to name a few.  I've long wanted to try the Denefrips Ares II.


----------



## automojo

A used Chord 2Quet usually aren’t too bad price wise.
Looking for something non boring, and a fun listen? Try a Project DAC BOX FL.
Not pricey by any means.


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## MacMan31 (Oct 2, 2022)

automojo said:


> A used Chord 2Quet usually aren’t too bad price wise.
> Looking for something non boring, and a fun listen? Try a Project DAC BOX FL.
> Not pricey by any means.



I'm looking here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/sea...min=&price_max=&province=&zipcode=&radius=100

You mean this? https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...v-optical-audio-from-smart-tv/images/3935509/

Or this. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649448013-porject-dac-box-ds/


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## automojo (Oct 2, 2022)

2Quet
Usually they’re around six to $700
I bought mine used of the Canuck site for $600 or so.
Not cheap.
But that’s Chord.
The Project TS is a DAC Box FL
Or DAC Box S FL.
The “yes “version has an on off switch in and input switching.
Both  are NOS and filterless.
https://witchdoctor.co.nz/index.php/2011/01/pro-ject-dac-box-fl-dac-review/


----------



## MacMan31

automojo said:


> 2Quet
> Usually they’re around six to $700
> I bought mine used of the Canuck site for $600 or so.
> Not cheap.
> ...



Well my BF2 was $850 on CAM so not cheap either.


----------



## automojo

MacMan31 said:


> Well my BF2 was $850 on CAM so not cheap either.


I agree


----------



## Ripper2860 (Oct 2, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Yea, there's some color differences (silver) in my units. So what? They're aluminium covers.


You are obviously not an audiophile.  You are not OCD enough.


----------



## Rowethren

I just took delivery of a Cayin HA-3A to power my ZMF Verite Closed and I am on the hunt for a DAC. I was initially looking at the Bifrost 2/64 but it seems impossible to get in the UK without having the faff of shipping directly from the USA and dealing with customs. 

I was looking at a more local option and was wondering if anyone has compared the Bifrost 2/64 to the Soekris DAC2541? I was thinking of the Musician Pegasus but you can't use both the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time which is a deal breaker for me as I will run XLR to the HA-3A and RCA to my speaker amp.


----------



## timiambeing

Rowethren said:


> I just took delivery of a Cayin HA-3A to power my ZMF Verite Closed and I am on the hunt for a DAC. I was initially looking at the Bifrost 2/64 but it seems impossible to get in the UK without having the faff of shipping directly from the USA and dealing with customs.
> 
> I was looking at a more local option and was wondering if anyone has compared the Bifrost 2/64 to the Soekris DAC2541? I was thinking of the Musician Pegasus but you can't use both the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time which is a deal breaker for me as I will run XLR to the HA-3A and RCA to my speaker amp.


If you ever do want to try a Bifrost 2 OG I have one for sale shortly, I will happily pass it on for what it cost me… PM should you fancy a punt! 😊


----------



## theeclone

timiambeing said:


> I was expecting Unison to improve the Pi USB as that's what I presume it is for, but it seems the Pi4 USB is quite fine enough anyway.



FWIW, I find the rpi4 USB pretty lacking. I've tried this exact same combo: BF2 with rpi4 over USB, and much preferred the USB from my DIY music server, which has a decent gaming motherboard.

My understanding is, Unison will take a decent USB port and make it sound pretty darn good, but won't take one that's lacking and make it sound good.

Interestingly, I think Mike Moffat is pretty into classical and has certain pieces that are kind of a measuring stick for how a DAC (including his own) is performing.


----------



## automojo

theeclone said:


> FWIW, I find the rpi4 USB pretty lacking. I've tried this exact same combo: BF2 with rpi4 over USB, and much preferred the USB from my DIY music server, which has a decent gaming motherboard.
> 
> My understanding is, Unison will take a decent USB port and make it sound pretty darn good, but won't take one that's lacking and make it sound good.
> 
> Interestingly, I think Mike Moffat is pretty into classical and has certain pieces that are kind of a measuring stick for how a DAC (including his own) is performing.


Interesting.. myself don’t listen enough to it.
Like any other DAC, audio piece’s
a lot of it is up to taste-as well as your system.
If you can afford it, it’s nice to have a few different Dac’s you like for a change of pace.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Well, I think if you have highly resolving speakers- classical sounds more then good.
> (I listen to all types a genres.
> And the IG BF2 does all of them IMHO more the justice.)
> Myself I use a pair of recapped and modded Infinity RSiiia’s and highly modded ESS AMT 3’ with Great Heils
> ...



That smooth transients of Chord that doesn't impart its own signature is very nice for those genre.

What won me over in the Schiit and the R2R camp (both NOS and OS) is the organic tone and timbre that reminds me that I'm more listening to the artist rather than perfect reproduction of sounds. BF2 OG is just so orgasmic sounding and still puts me in awe every time I listen to it


----------



## automojo

theveterans said:


> That smooth transients of Chord that doesn't impart its own signature is very nice for those genre.
> 
> What won me over in the Schiit and the R2R camp (both NOS and OS) is the organic tone and timbre that reminds me that I'm more listening to the artist rather than perfect reproduction of sounds. BF2 OG is just so orgasmic sounding and still puts me in awe every time I listen to it


Yep, thanks for that description…
I have to agree…it sounds so good even if it’s not ‘refined’ as a OG Yiggy, I can skip the ‘refinement’ with this DAC, with out a care I’m missing something musical, or meaningful.


----------



## kumar402

theeclone said:


> FWIW, I find the rpi4 USB pretty lacking. I've tried this exact same combo: BF2 with rpi4 over USB, and much preferred the USB from my DIY music server, which has a decent gaming motherboard.
> 
> My understanding is, Unison will take a decent USB port and make it sound pretty darn good, but won't take one that's lacking and make it sound good.
> 
> Interestingly, I think Mike Moffat is pretty into classical and has certain pieces that are kind of a measuring stick for how a DAC (including his own) is performing.


Pi4 USB is way cleaner then previous Pi ver. Not sure why it wouldn't sound good. At best use a decent LPS to power it otherwise I dont see any reason for Pi4 to be an issue. If some one doesn't like USB of BF2 due to tonality then I dont think changing USB source from Pi4 will make much of a difference


----------



## theeclone (Oct 2, 2022)

kumar402 said:


> Pi4 USB is way cleaner then previous Pi ver. Not sure why it wouldn't sound good. At best use a decent LPS to power it otherwise I dont see any reason for Pi4 to be an issue. If some one doesn't like USB of BF2 due to tonality then I dont think changing USB source from Pi4 will make much of a difference


All I can tell you is that hasn't been my experience, and from what I've read on sbaf I'm not alone. It makes sense that the quality of the source usb port would make a difference.

And yes the rpi4 has a better usb port than the rpi3, but that ain't sayin much 🙂

Edit: Here's an example of what I was talking about: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-bifrost-2.8226/page-8#post-270225


----------



## kumar402

theeclone said:


> All I can tell you is that hasn't been my experience, and from what I've read on sbaf I'm not alone. It makes sense that the quality of the source usb port would make a difference.
> 
> And yes the rpi4 has a better usb port than the rpi3, but that ain't sayin much 🙂


I have never tried USB of Pi4 to Bifrost but have used it with Gustard U18 DDC and I didn't find any thing bad as such when used with Allo Shanti LPS.


----------



## automojo (Oct 2, 2022)

Huh
The whole point of Unison is so you don’t need a bunch of band-aids.
Not sure what ‘tonality’ your trying to change.. as the Unison , on a BF2, Gungnir, Modi3+_ whatever Schitter you choose sounds damn good.
I suppose if your trying to color the sound more to your liking-go for it.
IMHO-spend the money on a good cable and enjoy!


----------



## cgb3

Luckyleo said:


> As I recall, Jason has indicated that early in his partnership with Mike, they had to work out whether or not to even have an on/off switch on the equipment.  Mike had very strong opinions that there shouldn't be one.  Plug it in, and be done!  Jason won, and today we have that on/off switch on the back......


I use this. Flock Jason and Mike on what they feel should be powered on.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Yep, thanks for that description…
> I have to agree…it sounds so good even if it’s not ‘refined’ as a OG Yiggy, I can skip the ‘refinement’ with this DAC, with out a care I’m missing something musical, or meaningful.



Add a decent SET or OTL tube amp with BF2 and you’ll forget about upgrading DACs ever again. BF2 or 2/64 pairs like magic on these type of amps seriously


----------



## omniweltall

theveterans said:


> Add a decent SET or OTL tube amp with BF2 and you’ll forget about upgrading DACs ever again. BF2 or 2/64 pairs like magic on these type of amps seriously


I get eargasm this way every night pairing the 2/64 with my SET amp.


----------



## FellowTraveller

theveterans said:


> Add a decent SET or OTL tube amp with BF2 and you’ll forget about upgrading DACs ever again. BF2 or 2/64 pairs like magic on these type of amps seriously


Perhaps you've already talked about this, but are there specific SET or OTL tube amps you'd recommend?


----------



## automojo (Oct 5, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I use this. Flock Jason and Mike on what they feel should be powered on.


Huh
With the BF2 seems easier just to use the rear switch if you must.


----------



## automojo

theveterans said:


> Add a decent SET or OTL tube amp with BF2 and you’ll forget about upgrading DACs ever again. BF2 or 2/64 pairs like magic on these type of amps seriously


Sure


theveterans said:


> Add a decent SET or OTL tube amp with BF2 and you’ll forget about upgrading DACs ever again. BF2 or 2/64 pairs like magic on these type of amps seriously


Sure
Problem is my Infinities wouldn’t like it… the need power to sound their best.
It might work with my Mojo Modded AMT3’s, as they are fairly efficient.. especially for sealed bass box  speakers.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Sure
> 
> Sure
> Problem is my Infinities wouldn’t like it… the need power to sound their best.
> It might work with my Mojo Modded AMT3’s, as they are fairly efficient.. especially for sealed bass box  speakers.



I was referring to headphones tube amp in this context where even Susvara will sound at its fullest capability, but yes you would need to have efficient horn speakers if you want to use a SET amp


----------



## theveterans (Oct 5, 2022)

FellowTraveller said:


> Perhaps you've already talked about this, but are there specific SET or OTL tube amps you'd recommend?



I use my Ampsandsound Forge 32/300 as my main amp with KT88 tubes and JJ 6SL7 input tubes (it’s a Mogwai Rev 1 with SS rectification)

For OTL, definitely the Folkvangr due to its ability to resolve microdetails and present them as holographic in the imaging


----------



## automojo

theveterans said:


> I was referring to headphones tube amp in this context where even Susvara will sound at its fullest capability, but yes you would need to have efficient horn speakers if you want to use a SET amp


Gottcha!


----------



## automojo (Oct 5, 2022)

DAC BOX FL…
Filter less MB sound.
Pretty cool its direct coupled as well.
Certainly not the most detailed-but it's has rhythm and drive and very musical.
A inexpensive change of pace.
As good as the 'lil guy is-it also makes myself appreciate the OG BF2-what a great all around performer it is.
And the balance between musicality and listenability, and detail extraction.


----------



## cgb3

automojo said:


> Huh
> With the BF2 seems easier just to use the rear switch if you must.


To each their own.


----------



## automojo (Oct 5, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> To each their own.


----------



## automojo (Oct 5, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> To each their own.


?
Sure- no debate on that.
But the original question was why bother if you don’t need to?
As it seems even the designer feels best results are achieved by simply leaving it on.
Timibeing was  simply questioning  if it was reason not to purchase the BF2 if he wasn’t able leave it on continuously.
Didn’t seem like a major determent even if not ideal to enjoy a awesome product.


----------



## cgb3 (Oct 6, 2022)

automojo said:


> ?
> Sure- no debate on that.
> But the original question was why bother if you don’t need to?
> As it seems even the designer feels best results are achieved by simply leaving it on.
> ...


I'll control, with ease, everything that I own. That's my philosophy in as few words as possible.

Actually, I leave my BF2 on all the time. But, the switch is at hand.


----------



## timiambeing (Oct 6, 2022)

Actually, I’m still trialling the BF2 as after going back to my little Soncoz I noticed that although it was indeed seemingly immediately more resolving, the BF2 was doing something I wanted to get to know better. So I thought the best idea was to stop all this swapping backwards and forwards and leave the BF2 in the system for a while and just get used to it, then when my new Soncoz SGD1 comes I will be able to properly record the difference.

Anyway, one of the things I’m doing is listening to entire works, symphonies and the like, all the way through, just enjoying what the Bifrost does do well, which is drama and feeling. It’s already sounding like the Soncoz LA-QXD1 was presenting everything full of detail, yet flat and one dimensional, where the Bifrost is layering much better and providing a more organic picture - at the expense of that airy upper detail which is often the bit that grabs me listening to classical. We shall see what the Soncoz bigger brother can do, hopefully it will get detail and drama… who can tell? 😊

As a side effect of this I’ve squeezed the BF2 into my travelling rack, which leaves barely any space above it at all, I can’t even get my finger in. As a result it warms up pretty fast and I’m now checking whether this does indeed effect the sound over an hour or more as compared with a typical 20 minute warm up before listening. So far I did notice last night that the second piece I listened to grabbed me a little more than the first with subtle musical clues and the like, so that would be an hour or two in. I’m having a listen this morning later as well and again if the music starts to catch my attention more (usually because I hear subtle details that grab me!) after a hour or two I’ll go back the the first piece I listens to and compare. But I have to say, so far if I wasn’t being overly critical I would say that it sounds immediately involving after switch on… whether extra detail arrives much later I’m still debating. All good fun isn’t it! 😁


----------



## timiambeing

Just in case anyone is interested, here’s my ‘trundle’ headfi trolly! It spends the morning in the bedroom, wanders into the office in the afternoon and sometimes keeps me company by the sofa late nights… 😊

Allo DigiOne naked round the back provides the Roon endpoint, when I eventually settle on a DAC it will likely be Velcro’d to the rear!


----------



## automojo

cgb3 said:


> I'll control, with ease, everything that I own. That's my philosophy in as few words as possible.
> 
> Actually, I leave my BF2 on all the time. But, the switch is at hand.


Got it!👍


----------



## davidfrance

But that little wooden table that is over the Bifrost, that the amp is sitting on, what is the name I should type into Google to find it ? Thank you.


----------



## snapple10

davidfrance said:


> But that little wooden table that is over the Bifrost, that the amp is sitting on, what is the name I should type into Google to find it ? Thank you.


wood monitor stand search produced this similar one

https://www.amazon.com/Navaris-Computer-Monitor-Wood-Stand/dp/B07HH922S8/ref=sr_1_69?crid=22K5R6P4462EU&keywords=wood+monitor+rack&qid=1665056422&sprefix=wood+monitor+tack,aps,112&sr=8-69


----------



## mattlach

Does anyone else have a problem with their computers booting really slowly if the Bifrost 2 is plugged in to the computer during boot, but powered off?

On my machine it works like this:

Bifrost 2 fully powered on before turning on PC --> Normal PC boot
Bifrost 2 powered off when PC is turned on --> Very slow boot

It's like the PC detects it is there, but fails to properly identify it and load drivers because it is not powered on, and this causes a boot delay.  It's almost as if USB board gets at least a little power from the USB port, which is enough for the computer to register that something is there, but then fails to load drivers for it.

I decided to be smart, and got a "smart power strip", you know the kind that senses on one outlet, and if that outlet starts drawing power, turns everything else on.   Well, this caused even more problems, as the Bifrost 2 did not finish starting up before PC boot time and this somehow confused the PC even more than full on, or full off conditions leading to a blank black screen with a mouse pointer and never completing boot, requiring a forced reset.

Everything is fine and works as expected if I just power the Bifrost 2 on, wait for the input source lights to stabilize, and only then hit the power button on my PC.   Problem is I keep forgetting, and only remembering to turn it on after I'm reminded by the very long boot time.

My temporary solution has been to just leave the Bifrost 2 on all the time, but that seems awfully wasteful.

I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this behavior, or if it maybe only is my unit.  Has anyone who has encountered this issue come up with a good workaround?
Appreciate any ideas.


----------



## theeclone

mattlach said:


> Does anyone else have a problem with their computers booting really slowly if the Bifrost 2 is plugged in to the computer during boot, but powered off?
> 
> On my machine it works like this:
> 
> ...


Maybe a bios setting is prioritizing the USB port over the internal disks (usually it's like that by default so you can boot from a usb drive)? Wonder if the bifrost being off somehow makes it wait to see if it can find a bootable drive whereas when it's on it immediately registers as not being a drive.


----------



## mattlach (Oct 8, 2022)

theeclone said:


> Maybe a bios setting is prioritizing the USB port over the internal disks (usually it's like that by default so you can boot from a usb drive)? Wonder if the bifrost being off somehow makes it wait to see if it can find a bootable drive whereas when it's on it immediately registers as not being a drive.



Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think so.

Audio devices don't usually show up as drives, and even if they did, it would kick me out and refuse to boot with a text message saying something about invalid disks or no disks found.

This actually starts to boot, but then just sits during the graphical boot screen for a very long time before starting up.


----------



## theeclone (Oct 8, 2022)

mattlach said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, bit I don't think so.
> 
> Audio devices don't usually show up as drives, and even if they did, it would kick me out and refuse to boot with a text message saying something about invalid disks or no disks found.
> 
> This actually starts to boot, but then just sits during the graphical boot screen for a very long time before starting up.


Like I say, I don't think it is being recognized as a drive. I just think it's possible that it somehow appears to the bios that it *could be a bootable drive when the bifrost is powered off, and takes a while to recognize that it's not.

I guess if it's the OS splash screen you're seeing (as opposed to the bios splash screen) you may be right, though. Either way, not a difficult hypothesis to test.


----------



## decooney

theveterans said:


> Add a decent SET or OTL tube amp with BF2 and you’ll forget about upgrading DACs ever again. BF2 or 2/64 pairs like magic on these type of amps seriously



Agree. My recently new Bifrost 2/64 currently feeds  > into a 6SN7 tube preamp > into two mono KT120 tube amplifiers. 

Currently comparing and contrasting to my other R2R tube ladder dac.  So far so good.


----------



## timiambeing

davidfrance said:


> But that little wooden table that is over the Bifrost, that the amp is sitting on, what is the name I should type into Google to find it ? Thank you.


Yes it’s that Navaris, there’s a lighter one - I have two and they stack lovely when there are more components! 😊 (only the RebelAmp was too wide to fit inside!)


----------



## automojo

theeclone said:


> Like I say, I don't think it is being recognized as a drive. I just think it's possible that it somehow appears to the bios that it *could be a bootable drive when the bifrost is powered off, and takes a while to recognize that it's not.
> 
> I guess if it's the OS splash screen you're seeing (as opposed to the bios splash screen) you may be right, though. Either way, not a difficult hypothesis to test.


My guess, when I had something similar happening a few years ago-it was the hard drive dying a slow death.


----------



## twigfarm

decooney said:


> Currently comparing and contrasting to my other R2R tube ladder dac.  So far so good.


And which might that be?  And would like to know your impressions & outcome.


----------



## decooney (Oct 8, 2022)

@twigfarm kinda prefer not to say publicly as i don't want to create uncertainty for current owners of these other dacs. Also b/c we know results can vary from one system to the next, different pre/amps, cables, different rooms, different ears. In fact, one friend also bought the BF 2/64 as well right behind me - now making some premature conclusions to this other dac, has not let the BF 2/64 settle in yet past 24hrs.  Said he might return the BF 2/64 so I'm hoping he lets it settle at least a week without swapping a bunch of cables around.  Also, I like the two dacs for different reasons, and strong points with both.

The Bifrost 2/64 is giving me some added micro-detail and extended tones "out there" in the sound stage this other recent r2r dac is not giving me, a different design. Originally started comparing some of the older single chip r2r designs which I tend to enjoy as well. I'm re-learning people hear dacs differently too.  

What I can say is both Companies have return policies. In my case I'm choosing to keep both dacs!


----------



## automojo (Oct 8, 2022)

Good choice.
Audiophiles in the WWW can have the tendency to be total spazes.
Best not to feed into that IMHO.
I'm intrigued by the BF 2/64 upgrade-but at the same time really appreciate what I have in the OG.
Who knows how that will turn out-not too worried as I'm enjoying what I'm hearing.
And also enjoying rediscovering the DAC BOX FL.
Especially with XM Radio.
For now through the Toslink/Pangea.
But have a Wireworld coax showing up shortly-so I will have a nice direct comparison with the OG BF2.
With the right setup-particularly speakers-the 'lil Project Dac rocks well beyond it's price of admission.
The drive and musicality-in those right circumstances frankly is kind of unique in my experience to digital audio.
Reminds of a good R to R recording.
Pretty uncanny IMHO.
It's a totally analog sound for sure.
IMHO good analog lets you here everything, but you don't have to expend a bunch of energy listening to it.
And certainly, doesn't make you want to reach for the exit door.-so to speak.
Both the BF2OG-and this 'lil Box FL have those qualities-to different degrees.
I would imagine the BF2/6 is as well.......
I agree with @decoony-you have to take the obvious variables into account.


----------



## decooney

@automojo from everything I've read the about the OG Bifrost, the sound signature is described in a very similar way to my other r2r ladder dac. Would also like to try the OG Bifrost dac and compare it to my BF 2/64 if I can get my hands on one.  I've wondered if they are just different designs that simply sound different, rather than one is necessarily "better" than the other. It's easy to see how individuals end up keeping multiple favorite dacs around - rotating them periodically.    

This kinda translates some for me after years of experimentation around several different input/output tubes and coupling caps in various tube amplifiers, circuits.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> @automojo from everything I've read the about the OG Bifrost, the sound signature is described in a very similar way to my other r2r ladder dac. Would also like to try the OG Bifrost dac and compare it to my BF 2/64 if I can get my hands on one.  I've wondered if they are just different designs that simply sound different, rather than one is necessarily "better" than the other. It's easy to see how individuals end up keeping multiple favorite dacs around - rotating them periodically.
> 
> This kinda translates some for me after years of experimentation around several different input/output tubes and coupling caps in various tube amplifiers, circuits.



To me they're a different flavor but on some pairings 2/64 will show better resolution than the OG. If we're going to put these two DACs on tube amps, I'd pair the OG Bifrost with something like the 2A3 amp while the 2/64 with the 300B amps


----------



## automojo (Oct 9, 2022)

With the Project DAC Box FL… there’s was something different enough in its sound, that I wanted to keep it around-even though it didn’t sound the best, I thought in some of my older system configurations.
The uncoupled output could be part of why it's a bit picky.
It also has a complete lack of digital sound.
I think that's why it throws a lot of people off.

Because I would Imagine most people-when looking at dacs-still want some of those digital music traits. Detail resolution, as one example.
The Van Alstine/ Proton AP1000, and the final Mojo AMT3 version, particularly the Jatzen Superior Z/ Mundorfs and the Infinity RS iiia’s (destined for Jatzens Z’s and Mojo Mods).. makes this a well rounded system that can ( and does) play all day , all type/ genre with plenty of soul AND detail. The speakers playing the major role here.

Mainly XM, but Amazon Music as well.
Broadcast, l/ps, cd’s and reel to reel also on tap. As well as a smart tv.
A 1. 5 system.

IMHO  you can never have too much detail… the quality IMHO,  is what’s important.
If you loose the soul and listenability, then it’s gone too far for myself
Unless your  doing studio work.. I don’t see the point


----------



## decooney (Oct 9, 2022)

re: As a follow-up to the previous post, and related to "_pairing_" of the new Bifrost 2/64 dac with the "_right amp_" and "_the rest of the signal chain_" ... is something that I was thinking about recently. Today I came across a related video by a member here on Head-Fi and his Youtube channel, Reviews by @WaveTheory.  Titled _Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DA Full Review & Comparison w/ OG Bifrost 2, pub Aug 30, 2022.  _ Starting at 40m in to the video it tees up the conversation and around 41m 35sec he talks about this. I found it helpful in comparing initial thoughts.

This reconfirms some of what we are talking about here and reinforces thoughts how the rest of the system will lead some to one dac, or maybe another, or to stay with the OG Bifrost in some cases where the overall system may be brighter in nature.  In my situation I'm running particular input/output tubes and interconnects and speaker cabling that does really lend well with a neutral sounding dac vs an overly rich or weighty sounding unit. For some SS amp owners, maybe it means a different amp or cabling, and for some tube amps owners, maybe different tubes to fine tune to mate better with either the OG or new BF 2/64 dac. Looking for more reviewers to pop up on this discussion and considerations about OG BF vs. BF 2/64.


----------



## automojo (Oct 10, 2022)

Good points.
And frankly some aren't going to want to retune their system for one component, among other reasons.
If you wander over to SBAF-some describe the opposite-the BFs OG being bright and the BF2/64 being less bright.
(The AD chips do have a sparkle for sure.)
System tendencies, cables etc all play a part in the end sound.
But it all kind of goes along with if the BF2 OG is satisfying enough in your system, probably best leaving it as is.
In my system-the BF2 OG certainly isn't perfect.
Music wise and enjoyment yes.
Resolving and ultimate detail-probably not.
But that's the balance with any component.
Regardless of your system being bright or not.
Even with my Heils, and Emits-from what I'm leaning lately-the BF 2 /64 would be fine in my 1.5 system.
I would enjoy it for what it is.
But there is really no need from my perspective.
I have a few other dac choices if I want a change-Project and Modi +3-a few of the classic Muse Dac's.
In a nut shell the BF2 OG is good enough for me not to want to change it.
If I wanted the BF 2 /64 sound-I frankly would save up for a new, or more like used separate unit instead of the board upgrade.
So not unlike the Project Dac Box FL-not need to change it.
This is all separate from Schiit as a company and it's goals.
I think some Schiit fans forget that sometimes.
As one frustrated post pointed out-"this was supposed to be a upgrade".
And as pointed out:
Sure, but there is no guarantee you won't have to do changes to your current system to maximize it.


----------



## decooney

@automojo as I reminded a friend his morning the same comment one of my other old timer audio buddies said to me so many times over the years of upgrades and mods we did,  _"its all system dependent". _For me, i'd send any unliked dac out and down the road long before I'd change out my amps or custom built speakers. Totally agree it's not worth changing out other major components for the sake of a DAC if you like your other components more. 

I'll check out those observations on SBAF, I've spent time over there before with my other dacs and chip and cap upgrades and such so that will be interesting to revisit there. Honestly, I find you guys here on Head-Fi enjoyable to collaborate with and truly appreciate opinions and feedback here. A good site. 

UPDATE: BF 2/64 - Day 14
After a few weeks with the new Schiit Bifrost 2/64, a few things have resolved for me in my system* 1) *it sounds fairly "neutral" in NOS mode in my system. *2) *Leaving it powered on for at least 24 hours before use does seem to have an impact on the sound - smooth, no grain or etch at all. * 3) *Day 10-14 is def better than Day 1 with some time on it now. So far this dac is actually exceeding my expectations.  I wanted to try a solid $value$ "made in the usa" dac. It's good.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> @automojo as I reminded a friend his morning the same comment one of my other old timer audio buddies said to me so many times over the years of upgrades and mods we did,  _"its all system dependent". _For me, i'd send any unliked dac out and down the road long before I'd change out my amps or custom built speakers. Totally agree it's not worth changing out other major components for the sake of a DAC if you like your other components more.
> 
> I'll check out those observations on SBAF, I've spent time over there before with my other dacs and chip and cap upgrades and such so that will be interesting to revisit there. Honestly, I find you guys here on Head-Fi enjoyable to collaborate with and truly appreciate opinions and feedback here. A good site.
> 
> ...



Glad you like the NOS mode . The introduction of the NOS mode is a game changer. It's crazy good when you find the right amp that matches the NOS signature from BF2. OS mode IME is far more compatible with many amps but the NOS mode becomes magic with the right amp IME


----------



## automojo (Oct 10, 2022)

Interesting may have to at least try the software update on mine.
And perhaps that's the key to the BF2/64-NOS.
The NOS Project sounds very good in my setup.
But as I have found-not so good in some combo's.
I agree-leave them on-as the consumption isn't huge.
Interesting  on the comments on loose bass with the OG BF @ SBAF. I think running  sealed bass on both set of speakers makes this issue moot  with any decent hifi gear.
Never recall loose bass on a set of cans......


----------



## decooney

BF 2/64 - I find I dont need more of anything with my custom designed main speakers and stereo subs. When switching out of NOS mode to the Schiit designed MCB digital filter w/8x oversampling brings more of what I don't need (on my particular system). Could be 180 degrees out for other people's systems who might truly benefit more with the MegaComboBurrito filter on.  Having the benefit to switch either mode/filter on & off with a front switch sure makes it nice in testing both. When I departed from my last two delta-sigma dacs, and started down the R2R NOS dac path, my other R2R ladder dac, and now the new BF 2/64, NOS mode works best for me and my preference fwiw.


----------



## theveterans

Glad to be with me on the NOS team 😀


----------



## automojo

Ok-well you all talked me into try the BF NOS.
Have to track down a micro sd card.


----------



## decooney (Oct 10, 2022)

automojo said:


> Interesting may have to at least try the software update on mine.
> And perhaps that's the key to the BF2/64-NOS.
> The NOS Project sounds very good in my setup.
> But as I have found-not so good in some combo's.
> ...


@automojo if I'm understanding correctly do you have the Bifrost 2 or the Bifrost OG?   Reading here it states the firmware update is "also available for the Bifrost 2".  Wondering which dac version and dac chip you have in yours, AKM?  Can you update the older OG model to enable NOS as well, etc?  If so that would be interesting to try. 

Was looking at this new Aug '22 update that came available and the description of: _"Enables NOS (non-oversampled) mode on all Bifrost 2"_ at this link here: https://www.schiit.com/firmware


----------



## decooney

theveterans said:


> Glad to be with me on the NOS team 😀


Its a good team to be on!  Wanting a less fatiguing sound and the ability to [also] listen to older less-than-perfect recordings is what eventually drove me to seeking dacs and old cd players with old chips and native NOS capability.  A few friends who rotated lots of different tube amps, several variations of r2r tube and non-tube dacs, got me on the NOS track again 5 years ago. I find its not too far off from comparing the sound stage on some of my former triode and pentode/utralinear amps fwiw.


----------



## automojo (Oct 10, 2022)

decooney said:


> @automojo if I'm understanding correctly do you have the Bifrost 2 or the Bifrost OG?   Reading here it states the firmware update is "also available for the Bifrost 2".  Wondering which dac version and dac chip you have in yours, AKM?  Can you update the older OG model to enable NOS as well, etc?  If so that would be interesting to try.
> 
> Was looking at this new Aug '22 update that came available and the description of: _"Enables NOS (non-oversampled) mode on all Bifrost 2"_ at this link here: https://www.schiit.com/firmware


Yes, I have the OG.
So I’m just going to update the software to allow the NOS mode.
The 2/64 might be in the future, maybe after the Infinity / Superior Z recap and  Mojo Mods….


----------



## decooney (Oct 10, 2022)

automojo said:


> Yes, I have the OG.
> So I’m just going to update the software to allow the NOS mode.
> The 2/64 might be in the future, maybe after the Infinity / Superior Z recap and  Mojo Mods….



Its great how the firmware/software updates are backward compatible with prior hardware versions.

The interesting part is opposing comments on some other sites indicating the update is  "_brighter with NOS_" on the card-swap option or OG, and yet how comments change to_ "its not as bright"_ and/or "_smoother and warmer_" on the newer BF 2/64 hardware in NOS mode (wide inconsistency). Perhaps the difference in the cards, or chips, or bits used, or how NOS behaves differently for each for each hardware type version of BF OG, BF 2, BF 2/64 somehow.  Disclaimer: I for one have no clue, just curious about the opposing comments, and why such radical feedback differences for the same non-oversampling mode.

Maybe one of the subject matter experts on this forum will chime in and educate us more on the topic.


----------



## automojo

Sure.
Will see what happens.
I’m not too worried.
NOS can add energy in the top end/ sparkle.
Even with Heils and Emits, and associated gear, I would not consider my system bright, but fairly well balanced.
The stock RS iiia’s are fairly well balanced, if you drive them with a amp capable  of driving them fully.
Otherwise they will sound bright.
With the stock caps, at times they can have a small edge, not a huge deal.
The Jatzens will bring them into better focus and balance  for sure.
But still excellent sounding full range speakers as is.
The Mojo AMT 3’s are well balanced as well.
Great Heils can be slightly colored, in a good way… but the mods have made them balanced full ranger… vs a Great Heil show.
And that’s what I like about the BF OG.
It goes on the same theme.
Your main focus is on the music, not  the specific components.
I think as The descriptions I’ve had more time to revise them regarding the BF2/64.
I don’t think it would change that main quality of my system
And perhaps even enhance it.


----------



## automojo

I think what may throw some off is the less thick presentation of the BF 2/64.
This may account for some to err on a brightness description?
I frankly don’t notice this as a draw back in my setup, but of course don’t have a 2/64 to compare yet.
What would be really interesting- IMHO is comparing the BF2/64 to the LIM Yiggy.
Because these seem to be more similar to each other.
I also have to wonder if these new boards need more time to settle down, and round out to their true potential?


----------



## theveterans

The OG in OS mode is not even that thick sounding (especially compared to Denafrips Ares II) due to the sparkle in the lower treble while NOS is definitely thicker in the mids (particularly vocals) and more even in the treble (less sparkle but denser) except for midbass and subbass (no Moffat bass here). The 2/64 in OS mode from my brief demo is definitely a more energetic experience and when paired with amps that are less rounded in the edge or more transparent sounding, the system tends to be more U-shaped sounding compared to the OG BF2


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> I think what may throw some off is the less thick presentation of the BF 2/64.
> This may account for some to err on a brightness description?
> I frankly don’t notice this as a draw back in my setup, but of course don’t have a 2/64 to compare yet.
> What would be really interesting- IMHO is comparing the BF2/64 to the LIM Yiggy.
> ...


Exactly my experience. The only thing I’d add to clarify is that at first the new board definitely DID sound quite glaringly bright, and exactly as you say auto, it settled down over time and is now pretty even. Still miss the “thickness” a bit sometimes….but the detail makes up for it.


----------



## timiambeing

automojo said:


> Yes, I have the OG.
> So I’m just going to update the software to allow the NOS mode.
> The 2/64 might be in the future, maybe after the Infinity / Superior Z recap and  Mojo Mods….


I too thought I would update the firmware to try out NOS mode, after an hour or so of long comparisons interspersed with short flipping back and forth I can safely say if there is a difference I can’t hear it. But that applies to any time I have messed with DAC filters ot NOS vs OS mode. In a blind test (I closed my eyes! 😁) and constantly swapping back a forth with a complex and forceful classical piece I could discern no audible change at all - in fact so clear was the ‘no effect’ that I began to wonder whether this is Schiit playing a little joke! 😎


----------



## decooney

> *@automojo *
> _"I think what may throw some off is the less thick presentation of the BF 2/64..."_





> *@theveterans *
> "_The 2/64 in OS mode from my brief demo is definitely a more energetic experience and when paired with amps that are less rounded in the edge or more transparent sounding, the system tends to be _more U-shaped sounding compared to the OG BF2"





> *@BShaw* _"Still miss the “thickness” a bit sometimes…."_




By chance are any of you experimenting with different interconnects when deciding to stick with a particular dac / version - - tuning and flattening the "U" just a little? i.e something I do with more rounded edge cables, periodically.


----------



## automojo

BShaw said:


> Exactly my experience. The only thing I’d add to clarify is that at first the new board definitely DID sound quite glaringly bright, and exactly as you say auto, it settled down over time and is now pretty even. Still miss the “thickness” a bit sometimes….but the detail makes up for it.


Do you still experience some irritating brightness with the new card with certain material?
I recall some @ SBAF mentioning a semblance, that while he felt it reduced overtime was still there.


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> Do you still experience some irritating brightness with the new card with certain material?
> I recall some @ SBAF mentioning a semblance, that while he felt it reduced overtime was still there.


It’s really calmed down enough at this point that I would offer a qualified no. I say qualified because I still think this card is more forward in upper mid/lower treble and some source material still can grate on my nerves a bit. Think that horrible ubiquitous 80’s peaky guitar solo sound for example! But interesting enough trumpet centered stuff is now more listenable. Doesn’t excuse compressed and bright recordings one bit IMO.


----------



## automojo (Oct 11, 2022)

decooney said:


> By chance are any of you experimenting with different interconnects when deciding to stick with a particular dac / version - - tuning and flattening the "U" just a little? i.e something I do with more rounded edge cables, periodically.


Sure.
Currently I think I’m using Wireworld Oasis 7’s.
I’ll have to double check on that
Ultraviolets for the coax and USB.
Seems, at least with Wireworld-Silver and the digital cables actually makes the sound smoother, not brighter.
Not sure why-it may be their type of insulation.
For interconnects I usually avoid the silver.


----------



## decooney

Several comments buried within different threads over on reddit about the 2/64 card upgrade and appreciation for the added clarity, detail, midrange, and increased sound stage. Many checking themselves over time listening for changes as it settles in so maybe there is some truth to giving it more play time; 14-30 days maybe as a guess.  

It did smooth out more on my new BF 2/64 at day 4 for sure, and maybe just barely a little smoothing more around day 10-14 or so if I'm not imagining it.  Definitely more neutral now as compared to Day 1 and keeping it powered on more. I'm only really paying attention to NOS mode where I like to keep it at with this dac.


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> Mainly XM, but Amazon Music as well.
> Broadcast, l/ps, cd’s and reel to reel also on tap. As well as a smart tv.
> A 1. 5 system.


Sorry for my ignorance but what is a 1.5 system?  Are you using a single main speaker (Tannoy dual concentric)? Does it have something to do with headphone listening?  I've heard of 2.0, 2.1, 5.1, etc., but not 1.5.

By the way, shortly after doing the firmware update I put it in NOS mode & have never looked back.


----------



## automojo (Oct 11, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> Sorry for my ignorance but what is a 1.5 system?  Are you using a single main speaker (Tannoy dual concentric)? Does it have something to do with headphone listening?  I've heard of 2.0, 2.1, 5.1, etc., but not 1.5.
> 
> By the way, shortly after doing the firmware update I put it in NOS mode & have never looked back.


Hss nothing to do with headphone listening-as I pointed out early on-but yes the Bifrost.
1.5 system is 2 amp/2 preamps-3 dacs, among other things, interconnected. Two sets of speakers operating in basically the same room.


----------



## automojo

decooney said:


> Several comments buried within different threads over on reddit about the 2/64 card upgrade and appreciation for the added clarity, detail, midrange, and increased sound stage. Many checking themselves over time listening for changes as it settles in so maybe there is some truth to giving it more play time; 14-30 days maybe as a guess.
> 
> It did smooth out more on my new BF 2/64 at day 4 for sure, and maybe just barely a little smoothing more around day 10-14 or so if I'm not imagining it.  Definitely more neutral now as compared to Day 1 and keeping it powered on more. I'm only really paying attention to NOS mode where I like to keep it at with this dac.


Sure-I keep wondering if the LIM Yiggy would be a more realistic, albeit expensive-upgrade for myself.
It seems to have all these same qualities, but minus any up harshness or sibilance.
I do have to wonder if the sibilance isn't more cap or cable related, then 2/64 related.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Sure-I keep wondering if the LIM Yiggy would be a more realistic, albeit expensive-upgrade for myself.
> It seems to have all these same qualities, but minus any up harshness or sibilance.
> I do have to wonder if the sibilance isn't more cap or cable related, then 2/64 related.



The OG on NOS mode didn’t have this harshness whatsoever even when cranked to very high levels with my solid state rectifier, KT88/6SL7 tubes, Jupiter copper foil wax caps, SET headphone amplifier on Drop Aeon X Open no filter insert (this headphone is notorious for revealing sibilance/harshness in upstream components for those who’ve heard it)


----------



## decooney (Oct 11, 2022)

> @automojo "I do have to wonder if the sibilance isn't more cap or cable related, then 2/64 related."



In the *first 45 minutes* of burn-in on the brand new BF 2/64 , I did hear a little of this sibilance and some glare. Disappeared between day 1-4. *Gone at day 4-7*.
I did experiment after the 4th day between my other OCC, then Silver-over-Copper, and staying with my best pure copper interconnects between my dac and tube preamp. I do like what I'm hearing now, the extra detail is there yet its still pretty smooth in NOS mode. Some of those poor _"80s guitar tracks"_ referred to before do not fatigue me and i get fatigued easily with grainy or etchy sounding gear.  While trying to avoid the whole interconnect rabbit hole fearing derailment of this discussion, yet I can confirm its worth rotating a few interconnects to test out, fwiw. Apologize If this derails you some - - pls forgive me as I'm one of those overly o.c.d. cabling and interconnect nuts. I beta demo a few for mfgs once in a while, just for hobby and for my own stuff. 

Since I am still in my first 15 days, I did not pop the cover to look inside to understand what/if any caps may be in the signal path or none at all.  I did change caps in my other r2r ladder tube dac with great results, but that's a tube dac, sort of irrelevant. It might be worth a call to ask Schiit directly if they have any other feedback.  Found 2 reviewers indicating they feel BF 2/64 is 85% same sounding as Yggy LIM. Maybe some shared technology, chips, design there - and perhaps lower cost to manufacture, cheaper to ship, smaller footprint is my bet on where this is going as certain units move forward stage now and others disappear off of the available list for purchase.


----------



## automojo

theveterans said:


> The OG on NOS mode didn’t have this harshness whatsoever even when cranked to very high levels with my solid state rectifier, KT88/6SL7 tubes, Jupiter copper foil wax caps, SET headphone amplifier on Drop Aeon X Open no filter insert (this headphone is notorious for revealing sibilance/harshness in upstream components for those who’ve heard it)


Sure-that's good to know.
Even with the Taco Bell filter the OG is never harsh in my system


----------



## automojo (Oct 11, 2022)

decooney said:


> In the *first 45 minutes* of burn-in on the brand new BF 2/64 , I did hear a little of this sibilance and some glare. Disappeared between day 1-4. *Gone at day 4-7*.
> I did experiment after the 4th day between my other OCC, then Silver-over-Copper, and staying with my best pure copper interconnects between my dac and tube preamp. I do like what I'm hearing now, the extra detail is there yet its still pretty smooth in NOS mode. Some of those poor _"80s guitar tracks"_ referred to before do not fatigue me and i get fatigued easily with grainy or etchy sounding gear.  While trying to avoid the whole interconnect rabbit hole fearing derailment of this discussion, yet I can confirm its worth rotating a few interconnects to test out, fwiw. Apologize If this derails you some - - pls forgive me as I'm one of those overly o.c.d. cabling and interconnect nuts. I beta demo a few for mfgs once in a while, just for hobby and for my own stuff.
> 
> Since I am still in my first 15 days, I did not pop the cover to look inside to understand what/if any caps may be in the signal path or none at all.  I did change caps in my other r2r ladder tube dac with great results, but that's a tube dac, sort of irrelevant. It might be worth a call to ask Schiit directly if they have any other feedback.  Found 2 reviewers indicating they feel BF 2/64 is 85% same sounding as Yggy LIM. Maybe some shared technology, chips, design there - and perhaps lower cost to manufacture, cheaper to ship, smaller footprint is my bet on where this is going as certain units move forward stage now and others disappear off of the available list for purchase.


Thanks for the details.
IMHO cables are a difference maker.
And should always be part of a intelligent audio discussion.
They are components like caps DAC's amps etc.
I get the derailment part-crazy IMHO.
Sheeesh, I remember the Monster Speaker  Wire kerfuffle.
And the guy from Sound World (now Best Buy) in Rochester, MN had a detailed and informative review in HF, or Stereo Review, and was crucified by the Julian Hirsch crowd......(and I liked Julian Hirsch. He was a lousy listener).

I don't get it. 
People go to great lengths to set up their system, then stubbornly say cables, they all sound alike.
It's all part of good audio enjoyment.
Why short change yourself???
Everyone has opinions that are all part of the information pool.
But like all things audio-cables are not all or nothing issues, so to speak.
Just like music-audio should be a come together type of hobby/enjoyment-not a divisive one.
Ok-sorry for soap boxing! 
In a nut shell-my point-cables should be part of the discussion.
It helps understanding each end result.


----------



## decooney

> _@automojo In a nut shell-my point-cables should be part of the discussion. It helps understanding each end result._


Thanks for your insight, I guess I've been on some other sites too long where unnecessary debate just wears you down with pushback on "snake-oil this.. or that.." or the topic of debate is debate itself. Won't digress further. What's refreshing about this site is members actually listen  to their gear and changes over time. Happy Listening!


----------



## automojo

decooney said:


> Thanks for your insight, I guess I've been on some other sites too long where unnecessary debate just wears you down with pushback on "snake-oil this.. or that.." or the topic of debate is debate itself. Won't digress further. What's refreshing about this site is members actually listen  to their gear and changes over time. Happy Listening!


Sure-and I'm not even a can guy-but so much applies to both.
Iits obvious head fi'ers are good listeners by the nature of cans, and the more or less ideal, well maybe consistent is a better word, listening space.


----------



## automojo

Just a FIY-I'm kinda the guy in the Maxell tape ad.
We have that picture hanging up over the stairs.
My twin 14 y old girls (started late) are the same.
But for (my) sanity, they are becoming canfiles.


----------



## Neweymatt

automojo said:


> I don't get it.
> People go to great lengths to set up their system, then stubbornly say cables, they all sound alike.
> It's all part of good audio enjoyment.
> Why short change yourself???


Music-listening is an inherently subjective pursuit in the first place, so if a cable or other component makes a difference in how you perceive or enjoy your music, then go for it I say.  Your ears, your money after all.  

Until such time as the haters can be inside one's head hearing what one hears, I will continue to ignore them.


----------



## automojo (Oct 11, 2022)

Neweymatt said:


> Music-listening is an inherently subjective pursuit in the first place, so if a cable or other component makes a difference in how you perceive or enjoy your music, then go for it I say.  Your ears, your money after all.
> 
> Until such time as the haters can be inside one's head hearing what one hears, I will continue to ignore them.


Sure.
My point is why bother being that "hater"?
Even for selfish reasons.....
A real waste of energy.
Not to mention missing valuable info.
But I get it-that's the way some roll with the  wreckin' wrench in hand....


----------



## theveterans

Neweymatt said:


> Music-listening is an inherently subjective pursuit in the first place, so if a cable or other component makes a difference in how you perceive or enjoy your music, then go for it I say.  Your ears, your money after all.
> 
> Until such time as the haters can be inside one's head hearing what one hears, I will continue to ignore them.



The thing with cables is that both upstream and transducers have to be transparent enough to hear a definitive difference. Cable sonic differences are far easier to detect in IEMs than in upstream components in my experience. I do use a SPC interconnect from BF2 to my amp but headphone cable swap still makes more of a sonic difference to me than interconnect cable swap


----------



## automojo (Oct 11, 2022)

Well after all this talk, I think I'm going to order the new Schiit board
The LIM references seem to have tilted me.
Any I'm confident I can do some slight adjustments if needed.
Who knows-I may switch back.
Just from what I gathered-it needs a fair amount of break in time.
Looking at my notes-I left my BF2 OG playing for 8 days solid after a brief-pre listen, which was a jangled mess
I think the eventual Jatzen rebuild on my RSiiia’s- should be a good match for the LIM Yigster wanna a be BF2/64.
Of course I can’t be certain till that time.
The Mojo’s 3’s so far make dang near everything sound superp.
Currently driving them with a old  Technics SA-600, smart tv and you tube.
Pretty amazing imho!!


----------



## automojo

For my self and cables, on my system, which I know well-I can certainly tell the difference with swaps.
If they’re cables I’ve listened to before I’m usually pretty good at picking them out.
Frankly sometimes it depends on the day etc.
But on a normal day no problem.
SE cables in my experience makes way more of a difference than balanced.
I agree, they can be many times small differences.
But overtime it can end up being a much larger difference.
And some people frankly aren’t particularly good listeners, nor do they choose to be they just want to listen to music.
Which is completely fine as well I get it!!


----------



## FellowTraveller

automojo said:


> Well after all this talk, I think I'm going to order the new Schiit board
> The LIM references seem to have tilted me.
> Any I'm confident I can do some slight adjustments if needed.
> Who knows-I may switch back.
> ...


I appreciate people who change their mind as more evidence comes in, regardless of the topic. I think it's cool that you're going to try the BF2/64. I too have ordered it, and I'm not canceling. I look forward to trying it out. Regarding cables, I myself don't have a lot of experience, but I bought decent quality cables for my classroom speaker setup after hearing reviewers I respect talk about the differences they heard from, for example, different grades of USB cables from the same manufacturer. As someone said earlier in this thread, if you're hearing a difference and it sounds better to you, go for it.


----------



## decooney (Oct 11, 2022)

@automojo - Well, the really good thing is you know your system and speakers well.

 A key prerequisite for discerning real differences with cable swaps and new dac/board changes!


----------



## automojo

FellowTraveller said:


> I appreciate people who change their mind as more evidence comes in, regardless of the topic. I think it's cool that you're going to try the BF2/64. I too have ordered it, and I'm not canceling. I look forward to trying it out. Regarding cables, I myself don't have a lot of experience, but I bought decent quality cables for my classroom speaker setup after hearing reviewers I respect talk about the differences they heard from, for example, different grades of USB cables from the same manufacturer. As someone said earlier in this thread, if you're hearing a difference and it sounds better to you, go for it.


Sure.
Have fun with it.
And the cables.
I found Wireworld to have good sounding cables at very fair prices.
Even their least expensive cables sound really good.
Really amazing IMHO-that they make a positive difference at those prices.
That's pretty huge IMHO.
They can many times be found @ discounted prices with a little shopping.
And their upgrades make complete sense, and are fairly easily predictable.
Pretty huge as well.
And at their pricing-you can make rational budget/vs sound decision.
That's pretty important, regardless of your income-because it's a intelligent, sensible direction and time saver to boot.
Moves some of that decision making on the actual creator of the products-very cool.
But having said that-there is alot of good stuff out there at fair prices to make positive impacts on your system.


----------



## automojo

decooney said:


> @automojo - Well, the really good thing is you know your system and speakers well.
> 
> A key prerequisite for discerning real differences with cable swaps and new dac/board changes!


Thanks I really appreciate that!
AT times-I wish I was into cans.
My problem was growing up-I used Koss Pro 4AAA at night as a necessity of kid life they were not the preferred medium.
Earphones-pillow speakers etc.
I do (don't laugh  ) have a set of Yamaha pro cans from years ago I use if necessary.
I had to replace the ear cushions a few years ago.
Now that I'm all grown up-I need to share music, whatever that may be- with my wife/kids-and their reactions.
Otherwise, it's not so enjoyable-on this 1.5 system.
I like feeling the sound around me-it's a better experience overall for myself.
But I have a house etc-so that helps.
Not so much late night-but these days I need the extra sleep!


----------



## automojo (Oct 11, 2022)

FellowTraveller said:


> I appreciate people who change their mind as more evidence comes in, regardless of the topic. I think it's cool that you're going to try the BF2/64. I too have ordered it, and I'm not canceling. I look forward to trying it out. Regarding cables, I myself don't have a lot of experience, but I bought decent quality cables for my classroom speaker setup after hearing reviewers I respect talk about the differences they heard from, for example, different grades of USB cables from the same manufacturer. As someone said earlier in this thread, if you're hearing a difference and it sounds better to you, go for it.


Also look forward to your assessments of the new 2/64!
(they need to add a Maxell Speaker Emoji...)


----------



## FellowTraveller

automojo said:


> Sure.
> Have fun with it.
> And the cables.
> I found Wireworld to have good sounding cables at very fair prices.
> ...


Thanks a lot for the suggestions. That's good to know.


----------



## FellowTraveller

automojo said:


> Also look forward to your assessments of the new 2/64!
> (they need to add a Maxell Speaker Emoji...)


Sure, I'll be glad to share. It will be quite a while yet, because I'll pick up the new 2/64 card while in the US, and only try it out when I get back to Thailand. But once I've given it a few weeks I'll be happy to share what I'm hearing.


----------



## decooney

automojo said:


> Also look forward to your assessments of the new 2/64!


Me too, both of you - including all likes, dislikes, and all - as you hear it on your systems.  

Looping back on the advice you guys gave me of giving it a _"week of burn-in"_ and_ "leaving it powered on 24x7"_ prior to critical listening sessions was helpful.


----------



## automojo

FellowTraveller said:


> Sure, I'll be glad to share. It will be quite a while yet, because I'll pick up the new 2/64 card while in the US, and only try it out when I get back to Thailand. But once I've given it a few weeks I'll be happy to share what I'm hearing.


Sweet!
I see your handle fits you well!
220 volt over there?


----------



## FellowTraveller (Oct 11, 2022)

automojo said:


> Sweet!
> I see your handle fits you well!
> 220 volt over there?


Haha. Yes, I have a 220 volt Bifrost 2. I like how Schiit does things. Like in case I move back to the US long-term some day, I asked them before I bought it how much they would charge to switch out the power supply for 110 volts. $60. So I feel that's very reasonable! And I very much like the idea of components you can keep and use for a very long time if you like their sound and performance. I also believe this will be the necessary direction of the future of manufacturing, given what we are doing to planetary resources under the current dominance of short-lived appliances and electronics. Someone recently pointed out that one very good thing about hifi is that on the whole you can use hifi components like amps, speakers, headphones (I presume), and DACs for a very long time. I do think the hifi industry does better than many in this area. But I think Schiit has taken it further with their modular DAC chip card and Unison USB in the case of the BF2.


----------



## Feischmaker (Oct 12, 2022)

With BF2/64 now having NOS Mode, if I were using HQPlayer, what is the maximum sample rate i can feed the DAC?

Is it 192 or is it 384? (iirc bf2 megacomboburrito filter upsample everything to 384)

EDITED: got the answer couple pages back. It's 192.


----------



## automojo

Yep I agree with all those points!!


----------



## decooney

When you guys get your dac bf 2/64 upgrade cards up and running, I'll be curious to know if you enjoy the proprietary megacomboburrito digital filter or not.


----------



## automojo

Sure
10-14 weeks worst case scenario for board shipment.


----------



## BShaw (Oct 13, 2022)

decooney said:


> When you guys get your dac bf 2/64 upgrade cards up and running, I'll be curious to know if you enjoy the proprietary megacomboburrito digital filter or not.


I just revisited the NOS setting on the new board last night, decided to give it a second chance. I realized when I first tried NOS, the 2/64 board was still pretty green. My impressions now are pretty different: I find NOS to be more relaxed and open, but the MegaCombo has more sparkle and air, though I wouldn't say it sounds unnatural to my ears. I can see why in some systems people would definitely go for the NOS option, but with tubes and RAAL tweeters, I like the extra shine of the mcb filter (I don't mean brightness).


----------



## decooney (Oct 12, 2022)

automojo said:


> Sure
> 10-14 weeks worst case scenario for board shipment.



Wow -  they are backlogged up to 14 weeks already - -   Do you think the bf 2/64 boards are going to the new/complete DAC units before being allocated to the upgrade card stock?

For comparison, my new BF 2/64 complete dac unit arrived 3 business days after I ordered it online just a few weeks ago.  I wonder if they underestimated demand or possibly struggling to get the parts & bits supply they need to manufacture the cards. Hopefully it's a sign of business doing well in any case. A good problem to have, if it is.


----------



## decooney

BShaw said:


> I just revisited the NOS setting on the new board last night, decided to give it a second chance. I realized when I first tried NOS, the 2/64 board was still pretty green. My impressions now are pretty different: I find NOS to be more relaxed and open, but the MegaCombo has more sparkle and air, though I wouldn't say it sounds unnatural to my ears. I can see why in some systems people would definitely go for the NOS option, but with *tubes *and* RAAL* tweeters, I like the extra shine (I don't mean brightness).



Good to know. My audio buddy in CO is running tube pre/mono tube amps and RAAL tweeters with his speakers too. He just bought the new BF 2/64.  Still in day 4 or so. He thought the sound of the DAC started to change a little more to his preference. He's still on the fence about the NOS mode vs MCB digital filter comparison, at day 4.


----------



## FellowTraveller

decooney said:


> Wow -  they are backlogged up to 14 weeks already - -   Do you think the bf 2/64 boards are going to the new/complete DAC units before being allocated to the upgrade card stock?
> 
> For comparison, my new BF 2/64 complete dac unit arrived 3 business days after I ordered it online just a few weeks ago.  I wonder if they underestimated demand or possibly struggling to get the parts & bits supply they need to manufacture the cards. Hopefully it's a sign of business doing well in any case. A good problem to have, if it is.


My impression is that Schiit is being very, very conservative in estimating the longest possible wait time. Based on anecdotal evidence, it seems that many people have received their card much quicker than they expected.


----------



## automojo

FellowTraveller said:


> My impression is that Schiit is being very, very conservative in estimating the longest possible wait time. Based on anecdotal evidence, it seems that many people have received their card much quicker than they expec





decooney said:


> Wow -  they are backlogged up to 14 weeks already - -   Do you think the bf 2/64 boards are going to the new/complete DAC units before being allocated to the upgrade card stock?
> 
> For comparison, my new BF 2/64 complete dac unit arrived 3 business days after I ordered it online just a few weeks ago.  I wonder if they underestimated demand or possibly struggling to get the parts & bits supply they need to manufacture the cards. Hopefully it's a sign of business doing well in any case. A good problem to have, if it is.


Probably the Dac's I would imagine if needed.


----------



## morpheus69

decooney said:


> When you guys get your dac bf 2/64 upgrade cards up and running, I'll be curious to know if you enjoy the proprietary megacomboburrito digital filter or not.


Megacomboburrito is the Schiit!!


----------



## automojo (Oct 13, 2022)

BShaw said:


> I just revisited the NOS setting on the new board last night, decided to give it a second chance. I realized when I first tried NOS, the 2/64 board was still pretty green. My impressions now are pretty different: I find NOS to be more relaxed and open, but the MegaCombo has more sparkle and air, though I wouldn't say it sounds unnatural to my ears. I can see why in some systems people would definitely go for the NOS option, but with tubes and RAAL tweeters, I like the extra shine (I don't mean brightness).


Interesting.


morpheus69 said:


> Megacomboburrito is the Schiit!!


So you either have your Schiit (Chipotla) or you Shinola (NOS).


----------



## BShaw

automojo said:


> Interesting.
> 
> So you either have your Schiit (Taco Johns/Chipotla) or you Shinola (NOS).


Nice, got a good chuckle out of me.
I think my earlier post you’re referring to was badly written and unclear-the shinola I mentioned was from the taco bell filter, not NOS, which to me is less energetic.


----------



## automojo

BShaw said:


> Nice, got a good chuckle out of me.
> I think my earlier post you’re referring to was badly written and unclear-the shinola I mentioned was from the taco bell filter, not NOS, which to me is less energetic.


I think am a bit dyslexic this AM


----------



## theveterans (Oct 13, 2022)

BShaw said:


> Nice, got a good chuckle out of me.
> I think my earlier post you’re referring to was badly written and unclear-the shinola I mentioned was from the taco bell filter, not NOS, which to me is less energetic.



Chipotle is generally smoother than shinola. That’s the main effect of oversampling. I like my sound presentation raw and crude


----------



## automojo (Oct 13, 2022)

In addition to interconnecst-I could always tube swap.
Go all out tubey with 6DJ8's-or detailed and thin with 6n1's.
To me, the jj 6988 are the best balanced.
I'm not a fan of the CJ tube type sound.
Too colored more my taste.
However-I may be off-I think it will fit just fine.


----------



## decooney

My first try on bf 2/64 with the *mcb filter on* was a bit too much boost for my taste. With this brand new unit, was kinda like hitting the loudness button (or +2 bass, +1 midrange, +2 treble control) on a bloated sounding vintage receiver or something. Will switch from NOS to MCB again this weekend to let it run in - - hoping it will settle down a little bit more. Not sure I want to compensate with "less than" input or output tubes to try and tame it some.


----------



## MacMan31

I was doing an A/B test between my BF2 (not 2/64) and the internal DAC of my Marantz CD6006 CD player using my Feliks Audio Echo Mk2. There was not a night and day difference but I felt the DAC in the Marantz was a bit livelier than the BF2 which seemed to sound just a bit dull comparatively. I don't have the newest firmware update on the BF2 either as I'll have to get a micro SD card and reader to make the update.


----------



## automojo (Oct 13, 2022)

decooney said:


> My first try on bf 2/64 with the *mcb filter on* was a bit too much boost for my taste. With this brand new unit, was kinda like hitting the loudness button (or +2 bass, +1 midrange, +2 treble control) on a bloated sounding vintage receiver or something. Will switch from NOS to MCB again this weekend to let it run in - - hoping it will settle down a little bit more. Not sure I want to compensate with "less than" input or output tubes to try and tame it some.


Interesting.
The OG-the bass does not seem to be bloated.
Frankly the lil Project does not seem that way either.
I think switching to sealed bass box speakers keeps this under control in my case.
Not that you would not notice it though....
But flabby bass from most ported speakers-especially below fb-isn't very pleasant.


----------



## decooney (Oct 13, 2022)

automojo said:


> Interesting.
> The OG-the bass does not seem to be bloated.
> Frankly the lil Project does not seem that way either.
> I think switching to sealed bass box speakers keeps this under control in my case.
> ...



Edit: 
It’s more similar to a db gain with the MCB digital filter  (than flabby response) in some frequencies. Is this due to oversampling 8x, not sure.  

NOS is a non-issue though. Planning to spend some more time with the Taco Bell filter tonight.


----------



## automojo

decooney said:


> It’s more of a db boost with the MCB digits filter  (than flabby response) in some frequencies. NOS is a non-issue.


Gottcha👍


----------



## BShaw

decooney said:


> Edit:
> It’s more similar to a db gain with the MCB digital filter  (than flabby response) in some frequencies. Is this due to oversampling 8x, not sure.


That's a more articulate explanation then what I proffered earlier, sounds about right to me. Still like Chipotle filter though even if it's genetically modified


----------



## decooney (Oct 13, 2022)

> decooney said:
> Edit:
> It’s more similar to a db gain with the MCB digital filter (than flabby response) in some frequencies. Is this due to oversampling 8x, not sure.





BShaw said:


> That's a more articulate explanation then what I proffered earlier, sounds about right to me. Still like Chipotle filter though even if it's genetically modified



UPDATE#2 on the megacomboburrito digital filter mode on this new BF 2/64 dac.  Some correction due here to my prior posts that were likely premature.
Apparently I still did not have enough time on the new dac in this mcb mode, now with more time on the dac in NOS and MCB mode;

1. *DID settle down a little *bit more in mcb too after more time on the dac.
2. Good recordings are more tolerable in mcb mode after more time on the dac.
3. Poor recordings, I still tend to prefer NOS mode more, a little more forgiving.

Note: its very subtle, and tube amp owners who know the difference might detect this, or not. In my system, going from NOS to MCB mode on the dac, is vaguely similar to switching from triode to pentode mode on a switchable tube amp. Sound stage sets back a tad in NOS mode on this dac. A tad more forward in mcb digital filter mode. Just another odd way to describe it. I do like both modes for different reasons, and quality of recordings matters imo.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> UPDATE#2 on the megacomboburrito digital filter mode on this new BF 2/64 dac.  Some correction due here to prior posts that were likely premature.
> Apparently I still did not have enough time on the new dac in this mcb mode, now with more time on the dac in NOS and MCB mode;
> 
> 1. *DID settle down a little *bit more in mcb too after more time on the dac.
> ...



I don't have the 2/64 but the OG with my SET amp (KT88 strapped in triode and no option for a pentode mode). I'm pretty sure that the two modes will sound different on other amp topologies than the one that I'm going to describe, and also source quality in terms of clean power and low jitter matters A LOT in NOS mode.

MCB/OS = Vocals pushed on back, an overall smooth experience with more treble shimmer. Bass is fuller with a slightly smoother texture. Soundstage is very wide but depth is a bit narrow since presentation is pushed back (as if you're sitting in row 5 of the audience)
NOS = Vocals upfront and has large presence than OS. Notes are more fleshed out/less smooth hence microdetails/dynamics are slightly more noticeable than MCB. Soundstage is just as wide but now more lateral depth occurs due to yourself now sitting 2nd row or front row of in the audience and the depth perception of instruments to vocals is now more apparent. In my case, bad recordings will sound worse actually and not smoothen out compared to MCB, and good recordings sound amazeballs and better to my preferences than MCB

This again is with the OG card and not the 2/64.


----------



## decooney

@theveterans which pse/strapped kt88 amp(s) are you running if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Bought a MicroSD card and installed 8/11/22 firmware on my BF2 OG to get access to the NOS mode.
I was skeptical I would like NOS mode, based preliminary impressions here, and my general skepticism of people's tendency to always see new/different as better. Also, I've been quite satisfied with BF2 OG as-is.
Therefore I was surprised to find I immediately noticed NOS is a touch thinner sounding but I can "see through" the music better. Switching back to MCB filter, I immediately notice soundstage depth is a bit flatter.
I'm immediately liking NOS more. Which is causing me to reevaluate which sound quality properties I actually like, dislike, or should prioritize.
Listening gear is BF2 - Sparkos Aries amp - ZMF VC Olive Wood. Looking forward to experimenting on tubes next.
It's a great time to be alive.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> @theveterans which pse/strapped kt88 amp(s) are you running if you don't mind me asking.



It’s ampsandsound Forge headphone amplifier (not a speaker amp or maybe one can use it as a preamp). The current and full version of the Forge is called Mogwai Rev 2, and the difference aside from the obvious cheaper price of the Forge is the following:

Forge: 6SL7 as input/pre tube and KT88 only in triode mode, solid state rectifier and 2 output impedance configuration, Jupiter copper foil wax coupling capacitor. No speaker bind posts.

Mogwai Rev 2: You can use it as a preamp or speaker amp for horn speakers. It has 5751 as input/pre tube, KT88 only in triode mode, 5AR4 rectifier, 3 output impedance taps with speaker bind post. You have a choice of Auricap branded or Jupiter branded copper foil wax caps (the extra price for the Jupiter coupling caps is worth the cost IMHO due to better microdetail retrieval and a more incisive sound). You can roll tube rectifiers to tweak sound while you can’t with the Forge.

As for value, Forge easily wins for me especially when you can get one that’s priced cheaper than Schiit Folkvangr.


----------



## automojo

Bassic Needs said:


> Bought a MicroSD card and installed 8/11/22 firmware on my BF2 OG to get access to the NOS mode.
> I was skeptical I would like NOS mode, based preliminary impressions here, and my general skepticism of people's tendency to always see new/different as better. Also, I've been quite satisfied with BF2 OG as-is.
> Therefore I was surprised to find I immediately noticed NOS is a touch thinner sounding but I can "see through" the music better. Switching back to MCB filter, I immediately notice soundstage depth is a bit flatter.
> I'm immediately liking NOS more. Which is causing me to reevaluate which sound quality properties I actually like, dislike, or should prioritize.
> ...


Yes!
And a great time to be on this web site.
So much cool information-esp this last week or so.
Pretty awesome IMHO!!


----------



## Unfie

I've owned my Bifrost 1 for about 10 years now and upgraded it along the way. It's a Multibit with gen 2 USB now. I'm wondering if I should take the plunge and upgrade to 2/64. I'm running it with a Valhalla 1, so I might upgrade that to either Valhalla 2 or Lyr+. Using it with my HD 650s, which I've owned for just as long. My current setup already sounds pretty good, but I've just got that...upgrade itch, ya know?


----------



## theveterans

Unfie said:


> I've owned my Bifrost 1 for about 10 years now and upgraded it along the way. It's a Multibit with gen 2 USB now. I'm wondering if I should take the plunge and upgrade to 2/64. I'm running it with a Valhalla 1, so I might upgrade that to either Valhalla 2 or Lyr+. Using it with my HD 650s, which I've owned for just as long. My current setup already sounds pretty good, but I've just got that...upgrade itch, ya know?



Very noticeable upgrade especially in technicalities even through the 650


----------



## mekap

I received Bifrost 2/64, installed a new firmware, the LEDs blinked and after the firmware installation was completed, the blinking of the LEDs stopped, after that I removed the memory card. Now, every time Bifrost 2/64 is turned on, the LEDs flash the same way as during the installation of the firmware from the memory card. Is this how it should be? It happens to everyone, is it the blinking of the LEDs when you turn it on?


----------



## davidfrance

mekap said:


> I received Bifrost 2/64, installed a new firmware, the LEDs blinked and after the firmware installation was completed, the blinking of the LEDs stopped, after that I removed the memory card. Now, every time Bifrost 2/64 is turned on, the LEDs flash the same way as during the installation of the firmware from the memory card. Is this how it should be? It happens to everyone, is it the blinking of the LEDs when you turn it on?


I have a Bifrost 2, no firmware update. I bought it 12 months ago. For mine, flashing LEDs is part of the startup routine. I used to know what that was all about, but I forget now. But it is something about the communication between the Bifrost 2 and my PC.


----------



## mekap

davidfrance said:


> I have a Bifrost 2, no firmware update. I bought it 12 months ago. For mine, flashing LEDs is part of the startup routine. I used to know what that was all about, but I forget now. But it is something about the communication between the Bifrost 2 and my PC.


When Bifrost is turned on, the lights flash in the same way as after the Bifrost firmware. Do your lights also flash when you turn on and start Bifrost?


----------



## Bassic Needs

mekap said:


> When Bifrost is turned on, the lights flash in the same way as after the Bifrost firmware. Do your lights also flash when you turn on and start Bifrost?


The firmware upgrade process has a slightly different light flashing pattern than the routine startup pattern. For example, If I am not mistaken, all the lights flash on and off together at a certain point in the upgrade process.
Are you leaving the upgrade MicroSD card inside the Bifrost?


----------



## automojo

The lights blink a sequence before start up.
As long as everything is working correctly- IMHO I wouldn’t worry.
You still have a warranty regardless 
I would just leave it in the you don’t have to deal with it.


----------



## mekap

Bassic Needs said:


> The firmware upgrade process has a slightly different light flashing pattern than the routine startup pattern. For example, If I am not mistaken, all the lights flash on and off together at a certain point in the upgrade process.
> Are you leaving the upgrade MicroSD card inside the Bifrost?


After installing the firmware, I removed the MicroSD card from the tray, then turned off the Bifrost and then immediately turned it on, the lamps began to flash one after another from left to right, then they all went out and the leftmost lamp turned on. Is this a normal Bifrost startup process?


----------



## Bassic Needs

mekap said:


> After installing the firmware, I removed the MicroSD card from the tray, then turned off the Bifrost and then immediately turned it on, the lamps began to flash one after another from left to right, then they all went out and the leftmost lamp turned on. Is this a normal Bifrost startup process?


Yes, the pattern you described is the normal startup process. You're good!


----------



## Bassic Needs

mekap said:


> After installing the firmware, I removed the MicroSD card from the tray, then turned off the Bifrost and then immediately turned it on, the lamps began to flash one after another from left to right, then they all went out and the leftmost lamp turned on. Is this a normal Bifrost startup process?


BTW, have you tried the NOS mode yet? By holding the button about 3 seconds, and then release, and the indicator light will slowly beging to pulse bright/dark? What do you think of the NOS sound?


----------



## automojo

Mine goes through two of those sequences before settling on the input.
I think the number or sequence are irrelevant as long as it’s working right


----------



## decooney (Oct 15, 2022)

To Buyers: BF 2/64 New DAC or New Card "burn-in - I have a request if anyone is interested. A *group listening test *and *report-out *back to this thread.

REQUEST:
Would you be willing to take listening notes about the sound and what does/not change for you close to these time intervals below?.

Schiit online support by email advised there is no burn-in. Either I truly have a case of grandiose wishful thinking -or- I heard subtle change at these time intervals.  With your help, I predicted it would be done settling in by day4-7.  At days 14-16 it was surprising to hear some additional smoothing of the sound. Looking to others and what you hear if you are willing to share back noted results. DAC powered-on 24x7 first 14 days if possible. 
Thanks in advance.

Sound change yes/no for you:

   @1hour?

   @1day, 24hrs?

   @4days?

   @7days, 1week?

   @14days, 2weeks?


----------



## BShaw

decooney said:


> To Buyers: BF 2/64 New DAC or New Card "burn-in - I have a request if anyone is interested. A *group listening test *and *report-out *back to this thread.
> 
> REQUEST:
> Would you be willing to take listening notes about the sound and what does/not change for you close to these time intervals below?.
> ...


I noticed a definite settling down of peaky brightness after 10 -20 hours, it really settled down.


----------



## automojo

Sure
I plan on keeping notes
Not sure about Schiit.
In their advertising they claim, more and less, there’s no difference in cables as well.
Just may take it’s probably more of an marketing decision.
That way you don’t get caught up in all that stuff.
Frankly I don’t blame them.


----------



## mekap

Bassic Needs said:


> BTW, have you tried the NOS mode yet? By holding the button about 3 seconds, and then release, and the indicator light will slowly beging to pulse bright/dark? What do you think of the NOS sound?


It is recommended to burn Bifrost and over time the sound should change (I read this here). My Bifrost hasn't finished burning yet, but I liked the sound of it right out of the box. And yes, I listen in NOS mode, I like it better, I don't know how to explain it, but my ears choose NOS mode.


----------



## automojo

It’s all kind of points out why this site is awesome… because you’re getting solid information, free of static, so to speak.
Again we all know how contentious the subject of burn in and cables can be for some.
It is what it is the best we can do is put forth our honest experiences and opinions and maybe that’ll change some minds.
Maybe it won’t.
Again I think Schiit made the decision not to enter the contentious waters revolving around these two subjects.
(Not just simply for some people that won’t let up.. but there are potentially a few that have an agenda on their mind.
Whatever)
Because like myself they figured that awesome websites like this one will figure all that stuff out on their own.
I think once I get that card and I’m gonna take a quick listen again like I did the first one and let it burn in two weeks solid.
With the BF2 OG… The first lesson was not pleasant so that’s why I just let it play for a week plus solid without giving it one listen  session.
My experience with the BF 1 MB
And the Modi MB-I wasn’t interested in listening to the changes in the break in.
I wanted to listen to a more fully broken in unit.


----------



## automojo

Ah…
But I guess that’s not following the plan 
I can stick with the plan no problem so we have a more rational set of experiences to compare with
Sorry about that… Because that really makes sense


----------



## decooney

mekap said:


> It is recommended to burn Bifrost and over time the sound should change (I read this here). My Bifrost hasn't finished burning yet, but I liked the sound of it right out of the box. And yes, I listen in NOS mode, I like it better, I don't know how to explain it, but my ears choose NOS mode.



I'll try to explain it, and feel more qualified after a few solid weeks with the BF 2/64. Now comparing to my other r2r tube dac in a reverse compare today.  

Here is my answer.  *NOS *mode simply sounds *More Natural, Not Forced *imo.


----------



## decooney (Oct 15, 2022)

automojo said:


> _Not sure about Schiit. In their advertising they claim, more and less, there’s no difference in cables as well.
> Just may take it’s probably more of an marketing decision.
> That way you don’t get caught up in all that stuff.
> Frankly I don’t blame them._



Super helpful point of view. While I don't know the Schiit Co nearly as well as all of you here, what I'm comfortable with is IC "cables" and "differences" after 30+ years of testing with various manufacturers.  Got it now, and If this is one of their standard policy (debate avoidance) answers, just like their dacs have no burn in. Mum is the word. Say no more. Meanwhile I'll keep burning in my BF 2/64 dac  Hahah.


----------



## Ripper2860

What they may BELIEVE and what they may SAY likely ain't always one in the same.  When it comes to these 'controversial' subjective matters, they prefer to neither confirm nor deny.


----------



## decooney (Oct 15, 2022)

Ripper2860 said:


> What they may BELIEVE and what they may SAY likely ain't always one in the same.  When it comes to these 'controversial' subjective matters, they prefer to neither confirm nor deny.



Well then, along those same lines I can neither confirm or deny if this new Bifrost 2/64 DAC is any good or not. LOL.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> I'll try to explain it, and feel more qualified after a few solid weeks with the BF 2/64. Now comparing to my other r2r tube dac in a reverse compare today.
> 
> Here is my answer.  *NOS *mode simply sounds *More Natural, Not Forced *imo.



I have the same ears as yours my friend regarding NOS


----------



## ksb643 (Oct 15, 2022)

theveterans said:


> I have the same ears as yours my friend regarding NOS


I'm liking NOS more than when I first got mine!


----------



## Ripper2860

Initial NOS impressions w/ BF2 OG were less than favorable but that was very early on.  I must try it again.


----------



## automojo

decooney said:


> Super helpful answer.  While I don't know Schiit nearly as well as all of you here, what I'm super comfortable with is IC "cables" and "differences" after 30+ years of testing with various manufacturers.  Got it now, and If this one of their standard policy (debate avoidance) answers, just like their dacs have no burn in. Mum is the word. Say no more. Meanwhile I'll keep burning in my BF 2/64 dac  Hahah.


I don’t know either of them well.
But I did enjoy the Schiit book. Being self employed almost 30 years now, I can appreciate many of their experiences choices, and takes.
I certainly do not agree with everything, but still appreciated, when you look at the results.
Just from reading the book, and some stuff here… it was a guess, that seemed to make some sense- esp if I put myself/ my business in the same position…it would be  a lot to deal with. Lots of time possibly spent on basically non-productive stuff.
But when we become consumers, and hobbies, this is more or less the complete opposite.
So it boils down to a business choice in a nut shell.
And I think that’s why the book was written to get a lot of the stuff out.
Because when you’re in a business especially when you’ve been doing it for a long period of time you cut to the chase and don’t get too long winded, and usually don’t elaborate on those decisions for the reasons mentioned earlier.


----------



## automojo

And well… The main thing I appreciate is their passion for a good sound.
And that part of that  passion  ( should) require good value for the dollar spent.
As the more people that enjoy this hobby the better!!
Ok… sorry for the soapboxing!! 🙃


----------



## decooney

theveterans said:


> I have the same ears as yours my friend regarding NOS


Good to know. My disclaimer is I hear this on my system as I’m extremely acquainted with it, and don’t make a lot of rapid changes.  Cannot say what I could/not hear in other peoples systems, or if I could hear differences there or not.

Keeping my same speakers and placement and amps consistent is a helpful constant.


----------



## TheFrator

BShaw said:


> I noticed a definite settling down of peaky brightness after 10 -20 hours, it really settled down.


+1 to this. On the first night of listening my ears were fatigued and this only happens when there's something in the treble or I'm listening too loud (which I rarely, if ever, do).


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> Good to know. My disclaimer is I hear this on my system as I’m extremely acquainted with it, and don’t make a lot of rapid changes.  Cannot say what I could/not hear in other peoples systems, or if I could hear differences there or not.
> 
> Keeping my same speakers and placement and amps consistent is a helpful constant.



It is completely system dependent. With OP amp based or SS discrete headphone amplifiers, OS can sound significantly better than NOS as OS opens their presentation up, providing better tonality and dynamics than NOS, but with some tubes even in just for preamp purposes in speakers systems or some SET amps for headphones, OS can sound a bit too much of a good thing and tilts the whole sound to being artificial than natural


----------



## automojo (Oct 16, 2022)

decooney said:


> Good to know. My disclaimer is I hear this on my system as I’m extremely acquainted with it, and don’t make a lot of rapid changes.  Cannot say what I could/not hear in other peoples systems, or if I could hear differences there or not.
> 
> Keeping my same speakers and placement and amps consistent is a helpful constant.


Agreed.
I’m keeping everything the same for the time being.
Again, I have the feeling nothing will need to be changed specifically for it after reading these extended review.
I was getting ready to do a recap, and Mojo mods on the Infinities… but will push it off maybe till the beginning of the year what the holidays approaching


----------



## decooney

BShaw said:


> I noticed a definite settling down of peaky brightness after 10 -20 hours, it really settled down.





> @TheFrator
> +1 to this. On the first night of listening my ears were fatigued and this only happens when there's something in the treble or I'm listening too loud (which I rarely, if ever, do).



Interesting. Thanks for confirming this.  After 2 weeks a few unexpected things occurred. 1) smoothed out a little more.  2) an increase in low-register bass, suprisingly so.  I had to actually turn down my separate main stereo subwoofers a full notch. Had to.   3) the sound stage might have opened up slightly more.  Noticed this again tonight. Was not expecting any of this, at all.


----------



## decooney (Oct 16, 2022)

automojo said:


> Agreed.
> I’m keeping everything the same for the time being.
> Again, I have the feeling nothing will need to be changed specifically for it after reading these extended review.
> I was getting ready to do a recap, and Mojo mods on the Infinities… but will push it off maybe till the beginning of the year what the holidays approaching



It took a long-long time for my clarity caps to stabilize in my custom main speakers.   Separate boards/coils/caps for the dual Nomex mid-woofers and AMT for each speaker.  Now they've stabilized over the past few years, and mono tube amp Mundorf Evo silver-gold coupling caps done forming too. Won't do that again...whew, glad that's over. It was worth the wait though. This allows me to really hear this dac and anything connected to it.


----------



## decooney (Oct 16, 2022)

Just played "The Who _Eminence Fron_t" through the Bifrost 2/64 dac on the big speakers and mono tube amps. NOS mode, moderate volume, very nice separation of instruments, layering, tone, and texture. Right channel guitar and piano-keyboard literally popping out of the speaker -  Holy Schiit!


----------



## theveterans (Oct 16, 2022)

decooney said:


> Just played "The Who _Eminence Fron_t" through the Bifrost 2/64 dac on the big speakers and mono tube amps. NOS mode, moderate volume, very nice separation of instruments, layering, tone, and texture. Right channel guitar and piano-keyboard literally popping out of the speaker -  Holy Schiit!



Holy Schiit! Indeed! NOS is truly *MAGIC *in those type of amplification topology! Same experience with BF2 NOS on just the Forge headphone amp!

Like I wrote a couple of post ago, you'll forget about upgrading DACs once you found the best synergy amp for your system with BF2 OG or 2/64


----------



## decooney (Oct 16, 2022)

theveterans said:


> *..."*in those types of amplification topology!".



Amplifiers:
@theveterans It's helpful to others you know and can share the sound results of the BF 2/64 dac when paired with different types of amplifier designs.

Since I'm all-tube now, and don't run class A/B mosfet solid state power amplifiers any more, and my headphone amp is built into my 6SN7 tube preamplifier - I have no way of knowing any different.  Also, there may be a particular cable synergy that can be achieved or could be a detriment choosing the wrong interconnect cables.

Cables Matter Too:
In my full speaker system setup, I'm currently testing with OFHC silver over copper (Apature), OCC Ohno Continuous Casting (Analysis Plus), or Pure Copper (Cardas) recent Clear Reflection design interconnect cables.  Each type produces different types of sound results with the Bifrost 2/64, fwiw to anyone who may be testing this dac, *try different cables* too. Finding the the tone, layering, and texture can be amazing with the right match of cables too w/this dac.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> Cables Matter Too:
> In my full speaker system setup, I'm currently testing with OFHC silver over copper (Apature), OCC Ohno Continuous Casting (Analysis Plus), or Pure Copper (Cardas) recent Clear Reflection design interconnect cables. Each type produces different types of sound results with the Bifrost 2/64, fwiw to anyone who may be testing this dac, *try different cables* too. Finding the the tone, layering, and texture can be amazing with the right match of cables too w/this dac.



Interesting that you're able to hear interconnect differences with your system. This just tells me how "transparent" BF2 can be and as such is definitely an endgame candidate DAC to my books. I use Mogami Gold ICs on mine and Pangea AC-14SE power cord for BF2 and stock power cord for the amp.

Side note: With cables, I definitely hear very noticeable differences cable swapping IEM cable to the point that I'm listening to a completely different IEM due to my IEM's incredible sensitivity and impedance swing (not exaggerating, it's that huge of a difference with IEM cables). Currently, I use 5N OCC Gold Plated Silver + 5N OCC Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid + 5N OCC Silver cables on my IEM (3 different materials, 2 different cable geometries)


----------



## bcowen

theveterans said:


> Interesting that you're able to hear interconnect differences with your system. This just tells me how "transparent" BF2 can be and as such is definitely an endgame candidate DAC to my books. I use Mogami Gold ICs on mine and Pangea AC-14SE power cord for BF2 and stock power cord for the amp.
> 
> Side note: With cables, I definitely hear very noticeable differences cable swapping IEM cable to the point that I'm listening to a completely different IEM due to my IEM's incredible sensitivity and impedance swing (not exaggerating, it's that huge of a difference with IEM cables). Currently, I use 5N OCC Gold Plated Silver + 5N OCC Gold Plated Silver Gold Alloy Hybrid + 5N OCC Silver cables on my IEM (3 different materials, 2 different cable geometries)


I still like pure gold conductor IC's on the Bifrost 2 (OG) best.  I've had these interconnects for a _very_ long time, but have not yet heard anything I like better.  

http://old.stealthaudiocables.com/products/gold.htm


----------



## theveterans

bcowen said:


> I still like pure gold conductor IC's on the Bifrost 2 (OG) best.  I've had these interconnects for a _very_ long time, but have not yet heard anything I like better.
> 
> http://old.stealthaudiocables.com/products/gold.htm



With IEMs, the addition of gold in the mix definitely changes the layering (more plankton) and tonality (similar to tube sound effect). Not sure if you get the same effect with yours


----------



## automojo (Oct 16, 2022)

decooney said:


> Amplifiers:
> @theveterans It's helpful to others you know and can share the sound results of the BF 2/64 dac when paired with different types of amplifier designs.
> 
> Since I'm all-tube now, and don't run class A/B mosfet solid state power amplifiers any more, and my headphone amp is built into my 6SN7 tube preamplifier - I have no way of knowing any different.  Also, there may be a particular cable synergy that can be achieved or could be a detriment choosing the wrong interconnect cables.
> ...


Agreed.
Myself have thought about tube power (Rogue 100 )-but the 2 current amps I use, while solid state-don't sound SS, or tube-just damn good, as well as transparent.
Changing them-would mean some overhauls of other parts.
I auditioned a VA  Vision SET 400 a number of years ago-and if one amp went belly up--this would be a perfect plug in.
Some of the issues with older gear-it's harder and harder to find guys that fix it.
Or guys that fix it-with out changing the sound.
By poor friend that had his Proton AP1000 recapped-it went in only needing a resolder and input switch cleaned.
Needless to say it's ruined-all the good old parts thrown away-just for the sake of a overhaul that wasn't needed.
Currently still a few capable/no harm guys out there fortunately.
As far as cables-I only bring up WIreworld because they are a great company to learn about cables.
They easily apply-for example to Transparent.
A good store is helpful.
Or phone calls/emails if you don't have a local store.
Demo's and face to face really is preferred here IMHO.


----------



## decooney (Oct 16, 2022)

Whenever I change or mod preamps or amps or say try a different DAC I usually plan to also compare results with different cable designs. Not for everyone, it’s just something I do for a well rounded test and I have the different cables to go through this, then  pick a direction to go in from there. 

There is a real synergy right now with my better Cardas pure copper CRF cables and the Bifrost 2/64. Music flows effortlessly without sounding forced at all.  Truly hearing the synergy of the DAC and what it can do paired with my tube preamp and mono tube amps. For me this DAC is a solid value+.  A good preamp/amp helps to realize the potential of this DAC imo.


----------



## theeclone (Oct 16, 2022)

I just had a 4 hr, 2ch listening sesh at very high volume with the 2/64 and wowowow! I continue to be blown away at what it does at this price point and form factor.

It's been a journey but I also think I see why some people seem to think it's a bit harsher than the OG. I got there by upgrading my vinyl rig and doing some new rips. I did this upgrade purposely so that I could see what the 2/64 is capable of and how good my ripping process is. That process is a bit convoluted so I'm not at all certain that the 2/64 is even half of the reason for the mild harshness I was hearing recently.

The thing is, I'll take a little extra harshness if I can listen for 4 hrs with that much enjoyment. I'll take it if it gets me all those beautiful textures and timbres. All that dynamic control. The fadeouts that so accurately slide into blackness at the end of the tracks. These are things that didn't really jump out to me so much with the O.G.

As for my vinyl rips, when I first got the 2/64 upgrade, I went strait to them. They were previously done with an entry level technics belt drive and a grado red, fed into a battery operated portable tascam recorder at 24/96. The presentation was very laid back with that setup. My new 'table is a serious step up, and I'm now running a grado gold with an 8mz stylus. I also now record to DSD64 with a tascam da-3000, and then use a multi step process to batch convert to 20 bit/88.2 flac files.

I ripped a hot stamper of Iggy Pop's Lust for Life using this process the other day and did in fact detect a little harshness playing back on the 2/64, but it's pretty subtle and I still really enjoyed listening. To me that album is one of the best rock productions ever and it definitely came across well on the 2/64. I just noticed it wasn't exactly the same experience as listening directly to the vinyl. How much of that is the 2/64 I can't really say, but I suspect it's at least a little.

Still sticking with the MCB filter. Never could get NOS to sound how I like in my system. Even using a tube in the lyr 3 didn't seem to give good synergy with the NOS for me.


----------



## automojo

theeclone said:


> I just had a 4 hr, 2ch listening sesh at very high volume with the 2/64 and wowowow! I continue to be blown away at what it does at this price point and form factor.
> 
> It's been a journey but I also think I see why some people seem to think it's a bit harsher than the OG. I got there by upgrading my vinyl rig and doing some new rips. I did this upgrade purposely so that I could see what the 2/64 is capable of and how good my ripping process is. That process is a bit convoluted so I'm not at all certain that the 2/64 is even half of the reason for the mild harshness I was hearing recently.
> 
> ...


Nice!
Thanks for the detailed info.
I agree-Mr Osterberg (not Westerberg "Its only string and wood man")  served up a classic that has worn well. Funny how that works out......
I think if you play around with a few variables-you may able to reduce some of the harshness-as many times that gives you even more cool details that where masked by it.


----------



## theveterans

theeclone said:


> Still sticking with the MCB filter. Never could get NOS to sound how I like in my system. Even using a tube in the lyr 3 didn't seem to give good synergy with the NOS for me.



Even my demo at Schiitr, I stilll prefered the MCB over NOS with Lyr+. Lyr+ is laid back amp compared to the Folkvangr from my recent A/B earlier at Schiitr


----------



## theeclone

automojo said:


> Nice!
> Thanks for the detailed info.
> I agree-Mr Osterberg (not Westerberg "Its only string and wood man")  served up a classic that has worn well. Funny how that works out......
> I think if you play around with a few variables-you may able to reduce some of the harshness-as many times that gives you even more cool details that where masked by it.



Yeah, converting DSD to PCM well is hard! I've found even the choice of dither makes a difference. But I'm pretty happy with the conversion process I was able to cobble together using only free tools. Especially when you consider what ppl shell out for Saracon.

But I will definitely make some tweaks to my process to see what I can come up with. I foresee some listening tests in my near future.


----------



## BShaw

I don't know jack about vinyl, seconds on Lust for Life. It sounds like the "harshness" you're describing is what I've described as "peaky brightness", a bit of harshness in the lower treble, and it definitely simmers down pretty quickly.


----------



## decooney (Oct 16, 2022)

theveterans said:


> Even my demo at Schiitr, I stilll prefered the MCB over NOS with Lyr+. Lyr+ is laid back amp compared to the Folkvangr from my recent A/B earlier at Schiitr



It’s interesting to read about the various differences in sound you guys report about the various Schiit amplifiers and preamps, DACs and such.

I was looking at the inside of the new Tyr Mono amps and the BJT OPTs the other day wondering what the signature might be for these mono amps. 

———————
HARSH to> SMOOTH: 
My 2/64 was a tad harsh and grainy for days 1-4 since new and gradually smoothed out more over 2 weeks with lots of play. Re-tested and proved it again today this DAC changes after it’s been powered on at least 6-24 hours. At 24 hours it’s pretty smooth for whatever reasons. Power-on a day ahead now at least. Someone said it has to do with the r2r multi-bit architecture iirc. My other r2r DAC is like the this too. Early power-on or 24x7 required.


----------



## theeclone

BShaw said:


> I don't know jack about vinyl, seconds on Lust for Life. It sounds like the "harshness" you're describing is what I've described as "peaky brightness", a bit of harshness in the lower treble, and it definitely simmers down pretty quickly.


Thing is, my bifrost has been on for months straight since upgrading with the 2/64 card, and before that for years with the O.G. card.

I didn't bother running audio through it for days as part of burn in. Wonder if that would help tame things.


----------



## theeclone

theveterans said:


> Even my demo at Schiitr, I stilll prefered the MCB over NOS with Lyr+. Lyr+ is laid back amp compared to the Folkvangr from my recent A/B earlier at Schiitr



I have to wonder if running the BF directly into a tube headamp helps filter out the ultrasonics when in NOS mode. I probably have too many gain stages in my 2ch rig, but it sounds damn good to me and allows a lot of flexibility. But it's basically BF 2/64 --> Saga S at full volume --> Lyr 3 --> receiver.


----------



## theveterans

theeclone said:


> I have to wonder if running the BF directly into a tube headamp helps filter out the ultrasonics when in NOS mode. I probably have too many gain stages in my 2ch rig, but it sounds damn good to me and allows a lot of flexibility. But it's basically BF 2/64 --> Saga S at full volume --> Lyr 3 --> receiver.



Could be that and the addition of even order harmonics from a tube preamp stage allows the NOS tone to shine through


----------



## decooney (Oct 17, 2022)

theveterans said:


> Could be that and the addition of even order harmonics from a tube preamp stage allows the NOS tone to shine through



Great point!  This could explain why some prefer NOS mode, and many others like the MegaComboBurrito digital filter better.

Hopefully members will share their setup of “solid state” or “tube” preamp or “no headamp” when mentioning their mode/filter preference used.


----------



## cgb3

decooney said:


> Just played "The Who _Eminence Fron_t" through the Bifrost 2/64 dac on the big speakers and mono tube amps. NOS mode, moderate volume, very nice separation of instruments, layering, tone, and texture. Right channel guitar and piano-keyboard literally popping out of the speaker -  Holy Schiit!


Great tune. Great tune for my several test playlists. Thanks.


----------



## decooney

cgb3 said:


> Great tune. Great tune for my several test playlists. Thanks.



Testing this dac with both types of older-lower quality and recent-higher quality recordings is something that proved I could actually sit and listen to the music coming out of it for an extended period of time. Usually gravitating to a gentle type sound, this dac lets a little more through. Old songs sound good again, hearing a few new things in the music I had not noticed as much before. Played old tracks like _Eminence Front, _and thought "woah", something to this.


----------



## automojo (Oct 18, 2022)

I agree it would be helpful stating what your gear is-tube or ss preamp/amp.
 I'm a fan of tube preamps-paired with the right ss amp.
Both of my current amp have excellent bass drive AND control.
And aren't bright or typical ss sounding-well balanced, and 'transparent'.
There are some ss preamps that simply defy ss/tube description.
For example, the Proton AP1000 (if you can find one in serviceable shape-one guy still around that can fix these right) could easily fit into most systems without a hitch.
It defies ss, or (classic) tube sound-is just sound damn good. The  Madrigal Audio SIG 1.5 amp isn't complaining one iota.

Current 1.5 listening rig:
My breezy sounding  Frank A Transcendence 10RB pre is a perfect match for a refurbed H/K PA2400 amp
Infinity RSiiia's-for now-still stock
All interconnects are Wireworld Oasis 7 (tonally neutral and balanced-but super spacious sounding)
Speaker cables Belden 5T00UP 10 gauge with Deltron large bucket Banana plugs-yet to find a better sounding wire in my setup-and I've demoed more then a few cables-go figure.....
That reminds me........I forgot about the plug I broke on a set of 2k cables I was demoing!.
Seems efficient transfer of power (and it's effect on damping) is the key here for me.
FIY:
This is just my setup-I'm not recommending anything here-but if gives you a idea of the mix.
You can spend a ton or mix-and-match,
and end up with impressively good and real sounding systems.
That’s the cool thing about  this hobby audio
Lots of hidden gems for sure.
And with the right synergy it’s surprising to me how well things can sound.
But it takes patience and getting a baseline.
Swapping things in and out on regular  basis it’s totally unproductive.
I see it quite often-It’s part of our society as consumers that people do this but it’s not the most helpful in this hobby


----------



## theveterans

I still use my Schiit Saga OG preamp with 5692 RCA red base tube and that goes to my Yamaha HS7 active nearfields. Even the BF2 NOS sound comes through easily the Saga 5692 tube and the active nearfield speakers.


----------



## decooney (Oct 18, 2022)

@automojo @theveterans I was looking over your posts to see which preamps and tubes, 6DJ8 for automojo, and 5692s for theveterans per the above posts. Good to read you two have different tubed preamps and still hear differences in the nos and mcb modes. I only know through my 6SN7 preamp for now. Will be curious to know if automojo notes differences (chooses NOS or MCB modes) between the tubed AVA Frank's 10RB preamp and the solid state Proton AP1000 preamp. I reluctantly sold my former B&K Pro 20 ss preamp years back when I moved to all tube. @automojo, btw I too did quite a bit of hybrid experimentation over the years with my tube preamps and class A, A/B solid state amplifiers. Even had some of the older Proton  amps and stuff years ago too. Liked some of the Proton Schott FM tuners, they were cool too when you could still get parts for them. Nothing ss left to compare to now on my end to pair up with the BF 2/64 to test different conditions and settings.

Down the road if I sell off some of my other sets of OCC cables to fund it, thought about picking up one of the Schitt preamps just for grins, and to try it. I don't own any other Schiit gear, just the new BF 2/64.  Still a newbie to Schiit, with an appreciation for what they do.  Watched the recently new Dave/Mike video last night where they were going over all kinds of stuff with multibit, TI vs. AKM, ESS, and other supplier situations they are planning around to keep production moving. I will look to you guys to help figure out which Schiit preamp to keep an eye out for on the 2nd hand market maybe.  Thx.


----------



## automojo (Oct 18, 2022)

Tubes are matched JJ's.
The Proton is a amazing piece-esp for the $$.
You don't see many-and they may need work-certainly the input switches cleaned.
Perhaps it's the true dual mono design?
Not sure-it hits levels above it's price point.
The phono amp is also top notch.

Another sleeper ss preamp-from what I have heard-is the H/K AP2500.
Hard to find as well-I am imaging for the same reason.
I like Franks stuff-his lives just down the road in Woodbury-so it's nice to buy local hifi again.
His new SET amps sound pretty amazing IMHO, and finally have excellent bass drive/control.


----------



## automojo

I think the Rogue would be a good fit for myself if I went tube amp.
Or a McShane totally refurbed Cit ii.
Or frankly even a Cit V
But right now-I really like what I have-so that move doesn't make much sense-plus with the 2/64 and refurbed Infinities in the future-I don't want too many things changing at the same time.
The 2/64 is a aberration-but I'm thinking a good one.
If not-I will just put the old board back in-no harm-no foul.


----------



## decooney (Oct 18, 2022)

automojo said:


> Tubes are matched JJ's.
> The Proton is a amazing piece-esp for the $$.
> You don't see many-and they may need work-certainly the input switches cleaned.
> Perhaps it's the true dual mono design?
> ...



Went rounds over two years with Frank on the new SET/amps, both SET 400 and SET 120. They came out with the newly updated faceplates that only come in Silver. My setup is all Black, so it stopped there. Was prepping to test my current quad triode 6SN7 tube preamp with those AVA/SET amps as a value-rotation amp. Felt it could be a good value as a nice tube/ss hybrid setup.  Instead, decided to buy another quad of output tubes for my mono amps and just stay with them. Good stuff/fun @automojo ! 

Now my eyes are lingering and lurking over the new Schiit Tyr Mono amps instead. I need them like another hole in the head but would love to DEMO them for sure!


----------



## decooney

> _@automojo .. Or a McShane totally refurbed Cit ii. Or frankly even a _*Cit V*



If you get the chance for a McShane kit or do a DonSachs Cit V, that 6L6 amp will stomp your ST70.  Sure you've read that more than a few times.   I'd even part with some of my other stuff to help fund the Cit V if its an option. Pair that with your AVA 10RB preamp and your set. All the sudden all Schiit sounds better too, BF 2/64 included!


----------



## automojo

I'm pretty much where I wanted to be years ago sound wise.
Never say never-but the days of any major changes-except for the 2/64 board-are probably over-with the exception of fine tuning.
The listenability of this system-and adding the 2/64 board was the only thing I was worried about originally.
But I now understand the differences better-and the NOS not merely being a afterthought.
So I think it will fit in fine.
Different-yes but fine.
I don't think the listenability will change frankly.


----------



## chrisnyc75

Question about the updated firmware:  the notes say "Enables NOS (non-oversampled) mode on all Bifrost 2".  Does this mean installing the new firmware overwrites the MCB filter and replace it with NOS, or does it add the OPTION to turn on/off NOS somehow?  And if it's the latter, how do you toggle?


----------



## theveterans

chrisnyc75 said:


> Question about the updated firmware:  the notes say "Enables NOS (non-oversampled) mode on all Bifrost 2".  Does this mean installing the new firmware overwrites the MCB filter and replace it with NOS, or does it add the OPTION to turn on/off NOS somehow?  And if it's the latter, how do you toggle?



Just add an option to turn the MCB on and off. Press and hold the input button for 3 seconds, and if you see pulsating input lights, you're in NOS.


----------



## chrisnyc75

theveterans said:


> Just add an option to turn the MCB on and off. Press and hold the input button for 3 seconds, and if you see pulsating input lights, you're in NOS.


Perfect.  Thank you


----------



## decooney (Oct 19, 2022)

If firmware is backwards compatible or functionally available for each version, does NOS mode sound more similar or notably different in each generation of Bifrost?

Bifrost Original            - Asahi Kasei Microdevices AKM4399 (1)
Bifrost 2                      - Analog Devices AD5781 (2)
Bifrost 2/64                 - Texas Instruments DAC8812 (4)

Please reply with corrections if I have the wrong device info and quantity listed for each generation. Thx.


----------



## theveterans

decooney said:


> Bifrost 2 Analog Devices AD5781 (2)
> Bifrost 2/64 Texas Instruments DAC8812 (4)



I didn't have them side by side during my demo, but NOS mode on both have vocals more upfront than the MCB, and that's the only common thing I find that's obvious. I need to have them A/Bed at the same time to ensure how NOS compares to both DAC chips


----------



## decooney (Oct 19, 2022)

I'm merely curious how different "NOS" sounds across different versions of Bifrost and/or firmware upgrades.

Its probably a tough question to pose and expect a response unless anyone has all 3 dac versions lying around. I probably should not have asked this...ugh.

The recent Schiit talk-cast video where they discuss Singularity and bring up AKM, ESS, AD, TI dac chipsets too is what triggered this thought.  Thx.


----------



## twigfarm

theveterans said:


> I have the same ears as yours my friend regarding NOS


Like I posted earlier, I switched to NOS shortly after updating the firmware & haven't looked back since.  Gives me a little of what I really liked and miss about the Ares 2 while I owned it.


----------



## decooney (Oct 20, 2022)

Have any of you directly compared* Bifrost 2+ *vs. *Yggy?*


----------



## automojo (Oct 20, 2022)

That would be a great comparison-esp if the person has them long term  in their stable of components so to speak.
Speaking of components-ended up making a trade and swap for a Rogue Audio ST100 amp.
So the long term PA2400 will be leaving-and hopefully finding a good home.
A real underrated amp for sure for the $$
Direct coupled-so it goes all out!
I had Stereo Surgeon go through this one years ago a redo all the heat stressed solder connections

So.......I will need some time with this before dealing with the 2/64 card.
I couldn't pass up the deal.
It all started with be discussing my dad's old kit built Cit IV-from my childhood listening days-to the Rogue (Cit IV isn't for sale-this has the guy's own personal upgrades he has done over the years-former 3Mer)......The Rogue was a buddies moving and down sizing.
But I will stopping by to gather info for sure.


----------



## decooney (Oct 20, 2022)

@automojo seems like a nice lateral amp capability move from SS to tube. While I suspect the HK may offer more drive and impact, the ST100 should offer some added finesse and layering in sound. iirc, with your Infiniti and/or custom AMT3 speakers do you more commonly listen at low, moderate, or high volume levels?

Also, you'll be able to shape the sound in different directions with those front Ax7 and Au7 front input/driver tubes. Will be curious if there are stock or updated coupling caps inside. Should be a fun experiment and s/b good matching up with your BF 2/64 dac imo.  Good fun.


----------



## automojo (Oct 20, 2022)

Coupling caps are Evo Oils.
The ST has surprisingly good bass drive.
AT the time it was driving a pair of Kappa 8's-not the easiest of tasks (certainly not like the 9's).
Bass was pretty sublime IMHO, and tone wise perfect.
The PA2400 is certainly no slouch.
Has driven any speaker I have had better then really good.
Very underrated.

I'm hanging on to the Sig 1.5 for now.
It's a beast-it can drive anything with out breaking a sweat-and runs very cool for a large amp w/24 output transistors.
It needs a 20amp service to fully appreciate it capabilities.
Like the PA2400-it will dim your lights with bass heavy tracks.
These days-I only crank it once in awhile.
The modded AMT3's are a easy drive-but like most big speakers come alive with quality power.
Myself-I am glad both are sealed bass boxes.


----------



## automojo (Oct 20, 2022)

And yes-pretty happy with the choice.
Myself-I'm a audio hobbyist.
Not really a audiophile pre se.
Probably because my dad built all his stuff.
Speakers (except for a Wharfedale) CIt II and IV from kits-Scott tuner kit.
That's what you did back then to get really good sound.
Now of course-you can just buy it-well maybe IMHO.
Depends on your definition.
My goal has always been to get the best overall sound-a system and can play all generes-at any level-anytime of the day-24 hours a day if need be and always sound great.
I'm pretty picky on how things sound ultimately.
But I go about it in a more unorthodox way.
Not like I couldn't afford much more expensive components.
To me that's besides the point
 I look forward towards experimenting modding-etc.
Dealing with noise, vibrations, etc.
As much about knowledge as the sound.
(My twin 14YO daughters (late starter here) both with high level autism-both give a new meaning to knowledge and how one perceives the world around them.
IMHO it's one in the same.
A hobby.
And one that begs to be shared-esp the outcomes
And the stuff I have chosen over the years fits well for me, for the above reasons.
As hopefully it does for everyone in this cool hobby! 
Anyhow-hopefully that sheds a better light on things this side of the tracks......


----------



## decooney

Your having fun @automojo and you’re hands-on. Double-win. Enjoy!


----------



## automojo

Thanks much appreciated.
Lots of different approaches here-that's what's so enjoyable! 
And the awesome common thread-the BF2 and 2/64!


----------



## decooney (Oct 21, 2022)

My new Schiit Bifrost 2/64 Intro Wrap-up:

Since I've had various/other gear brands (SS and Tube) over the decades and I'm a total Schiit newbie (now) and still in the honeymoon period, still kind of enamored watching some of their manufacturing videos. Super impressed watching the the Tyr Amplifier manufacturing and build process, starting with the raw plating, CNC of the chassis, board mfg process, integrated heat sinks, and and how modular everything is. Seeing their partners too was super cool.

What I appreciate most is the raw transparency of Jason and his team, and their videos.  While he considers it Marketing maybe, I consider it "sharing".

- I bought the new BF 2/64 to put a "toe in" to see what being a Schiit owner is like. Drank a little bit of the Kool-Aid for now.  The idea of buying a dac for
  $799 that competes or bests another $2,500 dac I demo'd is amazing to my ears.  Is it wishful thinking on my part, no, just like the BF 2/64 better.

- Admittedly, I'm also doing some comparison matching with my other three types of interconnect designs to fine tune what I like to get out of the BF 2/64. 
  Some might consider this cheating or applying passive filters. I don't, I already have the cables.  An interesting experiment to try with my best cables.

- Decided against buying the Gungnir or the Yggy as I like the size/form factor of BF 2/64 better. It just seems like a smart design to me.  Makes it super 
  easy for me to swap my other DAC in/out to compare and contrast to the BF. I backed off on Gungnir and Yggy wondering if this new BF 2/6 is the future  
  of Schiit.

- Awkwardly surprised seeing the different medical grade 4-TI chip design in such as the neat little BF dac. Kind of a cool pivot/idea to see Schiit do this.

- At the core I'm a custom speaker and amp guy first, where I normally geek out. However its been a lot fun being late to the party studying Schiit a little bit. 
  I've been curious about Aegir, Tyr, yet I'm super invested in customized mono tube amps. A lurker for now unless Jason wants to send a killer sample 
  demo!

*Appreciate hanging with you guys here on head-fi.org *for a minute. A nice break from other forums. It's been fun reading and tracking posts here.


----------



## decooney (Oct 23, 2022)

Some reviewers over the past few years have compared Yggy to the first gen Bifrost 2.  A few reports push to indicate the first BF2 is 85% of the Yggy.  One reviewer suggested in 2020 Bifrost has rendered the Yggy to become more obsolete. How about when comparing newer versions in 2022+

QUESTION:

Curious to know who's reviewed and compared *Yggy *-vs- the *new* next-gen *Bifrost 2/64*. 

How close are they now?


----------



## automojo

From what I have heard the the Bifrost 2 OG  is similar to the Yiggy OG
And the Bifrost 2/64 similar to the LIM Yiggy


----------



## decooney (Oct 23, 2022)

Good to know @automojo !

Speaking of Yggy *OG *-vs- *LIM* versions and differences, saw this late '21 review at Audiophilestyle



> Yggy review, Quote - _"While the two DACs share a common sound, clear differences are heard in direct comparisons between the two. The *LIM *has a *smoother* sound. It is less edgy in the treble. The *midrange* is a tad *warmer.* The music, and I hate to use this term, seems to arise out of a *blacker background,* one that has less noise. Perhaps this reduction in noise results in the sonic improvements I hear."_



Interesting.


----------



## automojo

Huh, almost sounds more like the BF2 OG
But then of course I don’t have a reference point I’m just imagining what the 2/64 sounds like.


----------



## decooney

automojo said:


> Huh, almost sounds more like the BF2 OG
> But then of course I don’t have a reference point I’m just imagining what the 2/64 sounds like.



@automojo It's puzzling, right?. Agree, some reports are 180 degrees from each other with Yggy/Bifrost OG -vs- the new LIM versions. Makes me wonder if something else in the system dictates the outcome in different ways.

Different processors in the dacs?  When different preamps are used?  Maybe @theveterans might have ideas.


----------



## theveterans (Oct 24, 2022)

decooney said:


> @automojo It's puzzling, right?. Agree, some reports are 180 degrees from each other with Yggy/Bifrost OG -vs- the new LIM versions. Makes me wonder if something else in the system dictates the outcome in different ways.
> 
> Different processors in the dacs?  When different preamps are used?  Maybe @theveterans might have ideas.



It's been a long time since I've had a direct A/B from Bifrost OG to Yggdrasil OG and LIM. However, if my memory serves right, BF2 OG and Yggdrasil OG are very close in tonality while LIM is midcentric with a more even/linear bass reponse while the OG has slight subbass emphasis like the BF2 OG (perhaps the reason for warmer sound than Yggdrasil OG). Treble on both Yggdrasil OG and BF2 OG has more of that harmonic richness that can be perceived as bright or harsh on less resolving upstream and downstream chain

The impressions are from solid state headphone amps rather than tube amps in this case


----------



## omniweltall (Oct 24, 2022)

To my ear, Bifrost 2 OG is thick, warm and rich in the mid-bass and mids. Very uniquely colored. Staging feels stuffier due to the thickness. But very musical and organic sounding. That mid-bass punch and thickness, combined with its macrodynamic contrast makes it a fun listen.

In comparison, Bifrost 2/64 is more linear in the bass with less emphasis on the mid-bass and extends further into the sub-bass. Mids are slightly thinner, allowing details to come out more, but there is a bit of emphasis on the mid/upper mids. Overall sound feels slightly snappier and more agile. Microdynamics and clarity also improved slightly. Staging feels more open with better image positioning.

Overall, Bifrost 2/64 tilts more toward reference sound (and away from  colored fun sound). But both have excellent macrodynamics and very good microdynamic. Both are colored. Both are musical. It all comes back to gear synergy and the quality of downstream gears. If the gears were matched for the OG, I would not suggest changing to 2/64. With the right synergy, 2/64 can potentially be an upgrade. With the wrong synergy, it can sound drier, sibilant and less musical. Hence the disappointment with some people.

Never heard of the LIM. Vaguely remembers Yggy OG. To my memory, it sounds nothing like Bifrost 2 OG.


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## automojo

theveterans said:


> It's been a long time since I've had a direct A/B from Bifrost OG to Yggdrasil OG and LIM. However, if my memory serves right, BF2 OG and Yggdrasil OG are very close in tonality while LIM is midcentric with a more even/linear bass reponse while the OG has slight subbass emphasis like the BF2 OG (perhaps the reason for warmer sound than Yggdrasil OG). Treble on both Yggdrasil OG and BF2 OG has more of that harmonic richness that can be perceived as bright or harsh on less resolving upstream and downstream chain
> 
> The impressions are from solid state headphone amps rather than tube amps in this case


Interesting.
I always try to look at my system-and new component integration before ruling out a component as this or that.
Esp when a large number of people are saying just the opposite.
Why I have tried to create a neutral system-easier to add most components and hear them for what they actually are-so to speak.
Just a FYI-neutral isn't a flat system-seems to be some misunderstanding on this topic.


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## automojo

I admit I got spoiled by the overly fun/musical nature of the BF2OG.
But interested in really hearing the progression after reading so many opinions on the 2/64.


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## decooney (Oct 24, 2022)

Speaking of the choice of words people use for these three versions, how would any of you attempt to describe Bifrost anything remotely close to this.
Reply with changes to these:


Bifrost OG: Rich, thick, musical, organic, smaller sound stage
Bifrost 2: Soft, still smooth, some added transparency to OG, slight increase in sound stage
Bifrost 2/64: Neutral, still smooth, more detail and transparency, larger sound stage
     ? ? ? ?

Kind of what I've read from comments past few years words used with prior versions. New descriptors for BF 2/64 now. It would be good to note those who completely disagree with these descriptions - - something else may be going on here changing the sound for each person's particular system, room, setup.  And, as I gather it now, these descriptions are all subject-to-change depending on the rest of the system upstream/downstream.


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## CFGamescape (Oct 26, 2022)

I ordered the BF 2/64 last week. I had the original Bifrost multibit several years ago, so I have no point of reference except that I've been using DT 700 Pro X for studio and gaming out of an Audient iD4 MkII audio interface.

So I'm just excited to get my hands on new gear dedicated to audio enjoyment. It'll be paired with the Jot2 and Ayra Stealth.


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## automojo (Oct 24, 2022)

Not to muddy the waters.
I’m not sure if I think it’s thick or overly rich.
Musical-for sure-like a AT120e cartridge.
Analog.
I think it’s more two dimensional and doesn’t have that air in space like a typical DS  DAC .
To me it’s more focused in that plane.
And probably accounts for a lot of the easily to hear detail?
(All Schiit MB's seem to have a textured bass, like many TDA/MB NOS dac's.)
Never really heard this trait in analog-but it does have that feel. 2nd orderish-so to speak.
And maybe that’s how I really describe it it’s easy to listen to and easy to hear the detail it has to offer you don’t have to work at listening.
I'm hoping the 2/64 carries on the easy listen tradition.


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## automojo

CFGamescape said:


> I ordered the BF 2/64 last week. I had the original Bifrost multibit several years ago, so I have no point of reference except that I've been using DT 700 Pro X for studio and gaming out of an Audient iD4 MkII audio interface.
> 
> So I'm just excited to get my hands on new gear dedicated to audio enjoyment. It'll be paired with the Jut2 and Ayra Stealth.


Why I haven't gotten my new card-the BF2 OG smokes the Bifrost MB in every way.


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## decooney

Tried this all last week >> I can swap in 3 different type of interconnects and change aspects to the sound, stage, and presentation of this BF 2/64. Quite a nice surprise, actually.


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## decooney (Oct 24, 2022)

automojo said:


> Why I haven't gotten my new card-the BF2 OG smokes the Bifrost MB in every way.



@automojo is it possible you might prefer the BF OG over the new BF 2/64 version then?

The new BF 2/64 is more transparent and detailed than my other R2R TUBE Ladder chipped DAC is why I mention this. What I do like about the BF 2/64 is the added realism and separation of instruments is surprisingly good.  Certain aspects of different instruments pop out more, hearing things I did not hear on other r2r chip days. Sound stage is a tad more forward, yet it yields an interesting midrange presence across the front stage [between the two speakers, nice and wide across] where my other R2R tube dac and prior AKM chipped Delta Sigma DAC were soft, a bit more rich, and center stage more recessed back.  I use to like that. Not sure sure after hearing BF 2/64 more after 3 weeks of burn-in now. My other days are maybe closer to how you are sort of describing BF-OG. I like the BF 2/64 specifically because of how different it is from my other dacs. Is it possible for you to end up with both, one BF-OG dac and one BF-2/64 dac?  Not sure why, somehow thought you had two chassis, the OG and BF2 now, before ordering the card.  Your potential eval to compare BF-OG vs. BF2 vs. BF 2/64 is interesting to me. Thanks!


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## automojo

Sorry for the confusion-I said I might end up with both @ some point.
To me what you are describing is much like the presentation of the BF2OG.
Some have mentioned this tall and deep soundstage with the 2/64-that could be with the filter in place?
And added space between the instruments.
Not sure.
The OG-de a nice wide-slightly beyond the edge speakers soundstage-but it remains in front usually.
But with some material it's much wider.
I hear plenty of space-as it's easy to decipher.
Some of this has to be system dependent obviously.
I agree-and what I was thinking earlier-maybe just a update to NOS might be the ticket for my setup-even with a different amp.
I'm not expecting something huge with the change-just some more refinement and ease. And perhaps some added breeze.
The PA2400 is a great amp-and this is more of a experiment.
Kind of a safe bet IMHO-because it's not a tubey sounding amp with the stock tubes.
And not bright like the Prima Luna's-eh.
Like the 10RB-you can make it sound like a Conrad Johnson if you wish with the right tubes.
Some of had some issue with transformer hum, but seems to be a small number.
Who knows-you just figure it out and correct it-like anything else.
I think the main reason was I kind of wanted a more modern version of the old kit my dad when I was a kid.
A clean, but soulful sound.
Any faults (every system has them) don't stand out like a sore thumb.
Just judging from what I have gathered (and heard briefly) should be a easy fit-with minimal changes.


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## decooney (Oct 24, 2022)

...


> @automojo "_To me what you are describing is much like the presentation of the BF2OG.
> Some have mentioned this tall and deep soundstage with the 2/64-that could be with the filter in place?
> And added space between the instruments.
> Not sure."_



re: Filter, with BF 2/64  I hear a similar type of soundstage and presentation with the NOS or MCB filter, the oversampling tied to the mcb filter boosts bass, treble, w/slight increase in spatial affect in my system. I'll listen again next time for instrument separation, and compare again.  For whatever reason, NOS sounds more relaxed and natural.  I keep wondering if I need to play it more on MCB mode for burn-in or something. When I'm listening, mcb mode lasts less than five minutes before I find myself switching right back to NOS mode.


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## automojo (Oct 24, 2022)

Sure
Well I think most  of us default towards analog side.
Even with a great cart and l/p, or reel to reel, you don’t get those type of large stages on a normal basis.
Even with ribbons or Heils.
I think while interesting and frankly can be very amazing to listen to, I think they lead to fatigue over time.
Too much thinking to process it all Im wondering?
Perhaps
I think some of it- is emphasis on the frequencies that add air can add to fatigue.
Maybe a combo platter?
You certainly don’t get that with the BF OG in my current set up.
As mentioned have not tried OG NOS yet.
The TDA 1541ax4 NOS certainly is a easy listen.
It has a bit less sparkle then the BF2OG w SCB filter.
But that sparkle doesn’t sound harsh biting or obnoxious by any means on my system.
Almost hyper detailed but super smooth.
Again just thinking about it, I’m not sure how they pulled it off.
I think a big contributer is the AK chips.
Not the Velvet DS chip sound.
Much better, but more 2d.
Solid and stable.
Again very easy to listen to all the detail.
Like reading a well written book.
Pretty cool stuff!!


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## decooney (Oct 25, 2022)

> _@automojo "The TDA 1541ax4 NOS certainly is a easy listen.". _



My other r2r ladder dac runs the same TDA1541a dac chip. It runs NOS natively, and yet I've noticed the instrument separation is not the same as what I hear with the new BF 2/64.  Realizing a new "difference" is why i decided to keep the BF 2/64. Owning both type dacs and comparing has been a fun experiment.

Separation of instruments is one of the first things I noticed with the BF 2/64.  The next thing was NOS mode, nice, clean, but still smooth. How this dac manages to let detail through, with separation of instruments, without smearing or co-mingling instruments together was a nice discovery. Reaching to ask maybe, I'm kind of wondering if having 4 of these new TI dac chips in this new BF 2/64 helps somehow.  Looking forward to more back by those who own prior versions of BF and compare to the new BF 2/64.   Thanks in advance to all for your comparison replies and descriptions of what differences you hear, like, dislike.


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## omniweltall (Oct 25, 2022)

decooney said:


> How this dac manages to let detail through, with separation of instruments, without smearing or co-mingling instruments together was a nice discovery. Reaching to ask maybe, I'm kind of wondering if having 4 of these new TI dac chips in this new BF 2/64 helps somehow. Looking forward to more back by those who own prior versions of BF and compare to the new BF 2/64.


I personally don't think Bifrost 2 OG is inferior in this aspect to the Bifrost 2/64. The OG is similar in technicalities to the 2/64, but different flavors. It is just the nature of trade-offs. Thickness does hinder details and separation to a certain way, but boy, they sure sound musical. I think if there is a way to tune Bifrost 2 OG thinner, it may show more of those aspects just like the 2/64.

But this is only for the context of Bifrost 2 OG vs 2/64. Keeping in mind that there are good thickness and bad thickness. Similarly, there are thin dacs that has separation that are all over the place as well.


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## automojo (Oct 25, 2022)

I think you right about the tuning.
That probably has more to do with it than the chips per se.
It’s just easier I think for some of us including myself to point at the chips, 
there’s a lot of stuff you can do to make things sound different


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## automojo

What would be really cool, a BF2 you could tune yourself with a push of a button.
A musical dac-and a reference dac all in one.


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## automojo

Or simply a BF-with the OG board-a 2/64 board and a switch
Add a reclocker-and you have a Gungnir2


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## decooney (Oct 25, 2022)

Sure seems like they could emulate BF OG, BF2, BF 2/64 and NOS with some type of switchable firmware filters.

Raising Bifrost into an even larger GIANT-KILLER for $799. @Jason Stoddard got your ears on ?, let's go make this Schiit happen!    

LOL   😂


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## ishmaelk

Hi, everyone. 
I was thinking of buying a new Bifrost 2/64. My amp now is a Jot2, and sometimes I use a Vali 2+ (which provides more depth than the Jot in my opinion).
The difference in depth between the Vali and the Jot made me think about how the lack of depth in the Jot 2 would be holding back on one of the advantages of the dac, which is added depth. 
Is there a big difference in depth between the Lyr and the Jot? 
I already had the Bifrost 2 OG + Jot 2 and I always thought depth was ok, but nothing that special. It wasn't until I got the Vali 2 that I thought, what if it's the Jot2 that's holding it back?
Also, since import costs can be overkill, can anyone in the EU recommend a hybrid amp that wouldn't feel like it's holding back the Bifrost's depth?
Thanks.


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## omniweltall

ishmaelk said:


> Hi, everyone.
> I was thinking of buying a new Bifrost 2/64. My amp now is a Jot2, and sometimes I use a Vali 2+ (which provides more depth than the Jot in my opinion).
> The difference in depth between the Vali and the Jot made me think about how the lack of depth in the Jot 2 would be holding back on one of the advantages of the dac, which is added depth.
> Is there a big difference in depth between the Lyr and the Jot?
> ...


What is your headphone?


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## ishmaelk

omniweltall said:


> What is your headphone?


HD6XX, LCD-XC 2021, Aeon 2 Closed... mostly.


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## omniweltall

ishmaelk said:


> HD6XX, LCD-XC 2021, Aeon 2 Closed... mostly.


I personally think Bifrost 2/64 will serve you better with your headphones and amps.

Bifrost 2/64 + Jot 2: LCD-XC and Aeon 2 Closed
Bifrost 2/64 + Vali 2: HD6XX

And you will have a really good system there with different flavors to go with, mate!

I hold the Jot 2 in very high regards, especially in price-to-performance. To me, it is a superb planar amp. It is great with dynamics too, provided there is synergy, but not with the Senns IMO. You are right. Staging size and depth is not its forte. I have not tried the new Lyr+. But honestly, if you already have the Jot 2, it will most likely be a sidegrade. Plus and minuses. I will stay with the Jot 2 for planars.


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## ishmaelk

omniweltall said:


> I personally think Bifrost 2/64 will serve you better with your headphones and amps.
> 
> Bifrost 2/64 + Jot 2: LCD-XC and Aeon 2 Closed
> Bifrost 2/64 + Vali 2: HD6XX
> ...


Thanks for the advice.


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## decooney (Oct 31, 2022)

Curious to know if members here have compared to more expensive dacs and preferred the BF 2/64?

-------------------

Edit: this might be a silly question for some, particularly so if one likes this unit so much they don't feel the need to search or compare any more.


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## CFGamescape

FYI, I got notification from Schiit that my BF 2/64 has shipped just now. It is exactly 2 weeks since I placed the order.


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## morpheus69

CFGamescape said:


> FYI, I got notification from Schiit that my BF 2/64 has shipped just now. It is exactly 2 weeks since I placed the order.


BiFrost 2/64 + Jot 2 + Arya Stealth is fantastic.


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## tamleo (Oct 31, 2022)

automojo said:


> A Schiit  MB DAC is going to be more lively, dynamic textured and analog sounding then a typical DS DAC.
> They generally are a more meat and potatoes thicker textured sound.. with plenty of bass weight  vs the Airy.. technically more accurate lighter presentation of the typical mid priced DS DAC.
> IMHO… The best feature is like the old days… spinning a l/p.
> You’re thinking about the music, not thinking about your gear.


Hmm i prefer the Ifi Zen dac signature  much more than the modi multibit v1 v2 and the og bifrost multibit . Owned the Og Gungnir multibit when it was debuted the fist time but sold right after the modi multibit came out. Maybe because I used the se out from the Gungnir multibit back then so I could not figured out the meaningful differences between it and the cheaper model.
Long story short , as I become mature I found most  Schiit dacs very compressed in sound volume fluctuation. It is like they are always try to make every notes as loud as possible so the sound becomes dull and cumbersome after a while. I think the purpose of this tuning is to make  the dac seem to sound more detailed. But I can’t stand it.
The multibit things slam and texturize very well though (though I don’t know if it is true to the record).
I want to ask if everyone here think the new Bifrost multibit to be better in this compressed regard ? I have some good deals for it right now. Having more than 2 flavored  headphones and  amps and dacs is fun to me. Tks


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## BShaw

FWIW I'll be listing my black Bifrost2 in the classifieds in the next day or so. Just had my Gustard R26 delivered, don't need two DACs! It's got both boards, the BF2 board and the 2/64.


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## jester115

BShaw said:


> FWIW I'll be listing my black Bifrost2 in the classifieds in the next day or so. Just had my Gustard R26 delivered, don't need two DACs! It's got both boards, the BF2 board and the 2/64.


I’m curious about your impressions of the R26 compared to the Schiit DACs, I’ve read good things but not a ton of feedback or comparisons out there.


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## BShaw

jester115 said:


> I’m curious about your impressions of the R26 compared to the Schiit DACs, I’ve read good things but not a ton of feedback or comparisons out there.


I’ll know in the next few days. I ordered the R26 on impulse a month ago before the 2/64 board had settled in, and which now is a pretty amazing little DAC, so the R26 is going to have to really shine to impress me!


----------



## cebuboy

Hi, anybody experienced having their BF2 suddenly exhibit loud humming/vibrating noise, like that of an electric razor? The output is gone as well. The lights are still on and can select the different inputs. But no sound output. I do notice that the relay no longer clicks. It just went like that from normal operation. 

Curious as to what caused this, BF2 bought last Sept 2020 and just being used sparingly. I figure this has something to do with the internal transformer. Any insights is appreciated. 

Already got an RMA so will be sending this back.


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## decooney

> @BShaw_ I’ll know in the next few days. I ordered the R26 on impulse a month ago before the 2/64 board had settled in, and which now is a pretty amazing little DAC, so the R26 is going to have to really shine to impress me!_



Should be a fun comparison.  I too looked long and hard at the Gustard R26, before I decided on the BF 2/64.  Completely different designs, resistor ladder vs. chip w/additional features on the R26.  Curious to read your future posts on what sounds different -or- sounds close to the same in NOS mode, if anything.


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## BShaw

My Bifrost is listed in the classifieds now. 
I'll have more time to listen to the Gustard today/tonight, but after 3 hours last night, to be honest I'm slightly disappointed, because I don't think it's doing anything better than the BF, with the exception of a bit more air in the soundstage and a slightly more 3d soundstage in general, but it's not slap you in the face obvious. I'm going to assume burn in will change things. Damn, Jason and Mike really nailed it with that new board, especially regarding detail retrieval and instrument separation, it might go down as a real giant killer. I hope the Gustard opens up and delivers as it's been touted. The big plus for me with the Gustard is the integrated streamer, which eliminates my Zen Stream and USB connection from the chain. The integration is worth a lot to me.


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## decooney

@BShaw if we may ask, what other prior DACs have you compared to your BF 2/64 and Gustard R26 so far?


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## BShaw

decooney said:


> @BShaw if we may ask, what other prior DACs have you compared to your BF 2/64 and Gustard R26 so far?


Prior to owning the BF2, I had a handful of less expensive DS DACs, including a Schiit Modius, a Topping E30, an older SMSL (forget the name it died years ago) and internal DACs in Emotivas. So not a DAC expert by any means, but I also listen to other friends' systems for reference. Going from the Modius to the BF2 then to the 2/64 was a great progression.


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## DeckHiFi

BShaw said:


> Prior to owning the BF2, I had a handful of less expensive DS DACs, including a Schiit Modius, a Topping E30, an older SMSL (forget the name it died years ago) and internal DACs in Emotivas. So not a DAC expert by any means, but I also listen to other friends' systems for reference. Going from the Modius to the BF2 then to the 2/64 was a great progression.


Cool. Would love your thoughts on Modius vs BF 2/64? I currently own a Modius myself and have been looking at tons of BF information for awhile. : )


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## BShaw

DeckHiFi said:


> Cool. Would love your thoughts on Modius vs BF 2/64? I currently own a Modius myself and have been looking at tons of BF information for awhile. : )


It's been long enough that I don't think I could give any accurate info, the only thing I recall is when I first got the BF2, I knew I was in a different league from whatever I'd had before. My system is so different now too, it's impossible to compare except for very recent changes.

Edit: Oh dang I just got my 100th post, when does the arm patch come?


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## decooney (Nov 5, 2022)

BShaw said:


> _Prior to owning the BF2, I had a handful of less expensive DS DACs, including a Schiit Modius, a Topping E30, an older SMSL (forget the name it died years ago) and internal DACs in Emotivas. So not a DAC expert by any means, but I also listen to other friends' systems for reference. Going from the Modius to the BF2 then to the 2/64 was a great progression._



@BShaw, A respectable list of prior dacs, and thanks for sharing this with us. Coming from the speaker side of house, I'm enjoying reading what folks are doing here on the head-fi site.  I trust a bit more about what I read here, particularly from members who own multiple sets of headphones -and- trying different dacs and comparing with a wider and alternating perspective.  It kinda takes the in-room speakers and the room itself out of the equation in my mind when thinking about what you guys are hearing here.

Similar to how some people have a handful+ of headphones, after exhausting myself with speaker building over decades, I became a bit of a cable nut trying way too many different cables (weird/uncommon combinations) with different amps, dacs, sources. Every cable change in my system sounds different, and while its expensive to do, its a lot of fun -vs- playing the room treatment game. And totally "over it" with tube swapping or mods in all my tube gear.  Done, plateaued.

Running the BF 2/64 with my best ICs now.  While I absolutely cannot recommend anything I'm doing or trying, its been a great learning exercise to see what this lower cost and higher value dac can do with different combinations in my own system. This dac remains in the primary position in my rig with no desire to swap it out for something else. Enjoying it even more, now that it's settled in. I don't think I heard any more changes in sound after playing it 14-21 days max.    

*>> Looking forward to more posts by BF 2/64 owners* putting this updated dac through the paces.*<<  *


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## BShaw

decooney said:


> @BShaw, A respectable list of prior dacs, and thanks for sharing this with us. Coming from the speaker side of house, I'm enjoying reading what folks are doing here on the head-fi site.  I trust a bit more about what I read here, particularly from members who own multiple sets of headphones -and- trying different dacs and comparing with a wider and alternating perspective.  It kinda takes the in-room speakers and the room itself out of the equation in my mind when thinking about what you guys are hearing here.
> 
> Similar to how some people have a handful+ of headphones, after exhausting myself with speaker building over decades, I became a bit of a cable nut trying way too many different cables (weird/uncommon combinations) with different amps, dacs, sources. Every cable change in my system sounds different, and while its expensive to do, its a lot of fun -vs- playing the room treatment game. And totally "over it" with tube swapping or mods in all my tube gear.  Done, plateaued.
> 
> ...


I'd love to know what you're favorite ICs are. I'm like you, primarily a speaker guy, and also built my own, Jeff Bagby designed Auricles, RAAL 70/20s and Satori 6.5" MW with crossovers that cost almost as much as the drivers  I'm with you on the tubes too, I did extensive modding to my current amp, and am currently looking at my shelf o' tubes and deciding which ones are going to go. I still like to mix it up from time to time, but I think 4 sets of output tubes really ought to last me the next couple of decades, not to mention all the preamp tubes......when I switched ICs a few months ago to Requisite silver/copper with KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs, things just tightened up and detail took a small but noticeable step up. 
I agree with you about this forum, I find it to be full of very experienced and helpful people, not a lot of rancor, and genuine enthusiasm for our shared love of audio! 
I just sold my BF2/64 as I've posted before, but still have a warm spot in my little ole heart, that's one hell of a DAC for less than 1K. The OG BF2 was a real character and enjoyable, but never gave me the resolution I was looking for, but the 2/64 is on par with my new Gustard R26 in that regard. To me, the 2/64 board made the BF a true audiophile level DAC.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 6, 2022)

^ Wow, strong recommend sounds like. A true audiophile DAC and noticeably better than the OG BF2 per BShaw. Part of why I'm waiting to pull the trigger is I've already spent more than I anticipated on audio this year. The other reason is I want to see more thoughts and reviews on BF 2/64 like yours. Great to hear when it's noticeably better than the OG. I know there has been some disagreement with this, but I'm hoping that is the general consensus. If it's not...they should have added an OG filter so you don't need to change anything to get both sounds. But if it's just a straight up improvement as Jason seems to indicate and BShaw, that's a great sign. I think anyone in the less than 1K audio equipment range, wants to hear the BF 2/64 is the closest thing to the Yiggy Less is More (for a lot less) and a great value compared to other R2R DAC's.


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## decooney

DeckHiFi said:


> I know there has been some disagreement with this, but I'm hoping that is the general consensus...



re: BF 2/64 - imo, It's all system dependent, and people may like each dac version for different reasons. What is "better" can vary depending on what direction you'd like the sound of your system to go in.  

One of my other dacs from another brand is similar to the BF OG type of sound. I wanted to try the BF 2/64 on demo on a hunch reading about the new design. I was hoping it would offer some added harmonics, layering, and overtones without being too etched or overly detailed. Retaining richness in the sound was a requirement. 

Finding that balance is not easy. For my system and setup, I found this with the NOS mode, which is quite the opposite of many others who may prefer the digital MCB filter mode more with the BF 2/64. There is nothing wrong keeping and enjoying the dac you own if you like how it sounds right now. I took the demo bait, and to my own surprise the BF 2/64 captured my attention and I decided to keep it. Enjoying it quite a bit


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## automojo

Yiggy Plus+
Closeout on LIM
MIL OG


----------



## automojo

decooney said:


> re: BF 2/64 - imo, It's all system dependent, and people may like each dac version for different reasons. What is "better" can vary depending on what direction you'd like the sound of your system to go in.
> 
> One of my other dacs from another brand is similar to the BF OG type of sound. I wanted to try the BF 2/64 on demo on a hunch reading about the new design. I was hoping it would offer some added harmonics, layering, and overtones without being too etched or overly detailed. Retaining richness in the sound was a requirement.
> 
> Finding that balance is not easy. For my system and setup, I found this with the NOS mode, which is quite the opposite of many others who may prefer the digital MCB filter mode more with the BF 2/64. There is nothing wrong keeping and enjoying the dac you own if you like how it sounds right now. I took the demo bait, and to my own surprise the BF 2/64 captured my attention and I decided to keep it. Enjoying it quite a bit


Agreed-just read the last 10 pages.
You can't just plug in and expect something to work.
You have to realize you taking a leap of faith-and possibly be willing to spend extra $ to make things work.
My advice is get to know your system-then figure out what works, and what does not.


----------



## Ableza (Nov 10, 2022)

Hi everyone.  I haven't participated much in this thread but wanted to pop in to say I replaced an OG first release Gungnir multibit with the new Bifrost 2/64 in m y living room system and to these ears, the Bifrost sounds better.  I also prefer the standard mode to NOS.  YMMV of course.


----------



## schneller

Ableza said:


> Hi everyone.  I haven't participated much in this thread but wanted to pop in to say I replaced an OG first release Gungnir multibit with the new Bifrost 2/64 in m y living room system and to these ears, the Bifrost sounds better.  I also prefer the standard mode to NOS.  YMMV of course.


Define better?


----------



## Ableza

schneller said:


> Define better?


"Better" is subjective.  I like it more.  More forward.  Better high-end.  To me in my system.


----------



## decooney

Ableza said:


> "Better" is subjective.  I like it more.  More forward.  Better high-end.  To me in my system.


Nice. Thanks for sharing. 

Any differences you hear with:

Tone?
Texture?
Musicality?

Also, are you switching back and taking notes comparing old vs new? A colleague reminded me today of “what’s new sounds better bias”.


----------



## Ableza

decooney said:


> Nice. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Any differences you hear with:
> 
> ...


No.  I don't care about any of that, and if it's bias then so be it.  It's also black and smaller than Gungnir and I like that more as well.  It's my subjective opinion.  I am not trying to make pronouncements that apply to anyone other than myself.  I just came here to share my opinion, not to try and tell anyone else what they might hear.  To me, in my system, the change is positive and I am happier with it.  If you are interested in your opinions about the sort of subjective criteria you mention is important to you, you'll have to try it for yourself.


----------



## DeckHiFi

Ableza said:


> No.  I don't care about any of that, and if it's bias then so be it.  It's also black and smaller than Gungnir and I like that more as well.  It's my subjective opinion.  I am not trying to make pronouncements that apply to anyone other than myself.  I just came here to share my opinion, not to try and tell anyone else what they might hear.  To me, in my system, the change is positive and I am happier with it.  If you are interested in your opinions about the sort of subjective criteria you mention is important to you, you'll have to try it for yourself.


I think it’s more of people just trying to get as many subjective opinions before they buy something. As I do, I bet a lot of people don’t like buying a bunch of things and returning them. Just annoying to me. I want to buy something that is awesome at a particular price point usually. That’s why people like you are super helpful. But yes one person’s opinion isn’t everything. 

When a bunch of people agree, then it’s a trend worth considering imo.


----------



## Ableza

DeckHiFi said:


> I think it’s more of people just trying to get as many subjective opinions before they buy something. As I do, I bet a lot of people don’t like buying a bunch of things and returning them. Just annoying to me. I want to buy something that is awesome at a particular price point usually. That’s why people like you are super helpful. But yes one person’s opinion isn’t everything.
> 
> When a bunch of people agree, then it’s a trend worth considering imo.


I understand.  But I can't describe things like "tone" or "musicality" for someone else.  Those are 100% subjective criteria that mean different things to different people.  All I can say is to me the new Bifrost sounds very good, and in my system it sounds better than my OG Gungnir MB.


----------



## barbz127

Is there any solution for a BF2 with transformer hum other than RMA?

Hums with only power connected so not ground loop related.

230v model for reference and grid here is stable at 234v

Thankyou


----------



## decooney (Nov 10, 2022)

Ableza said:


> No.  I don't care about any of that, and if it's bias then so be it.  It's also black and smaller than Gungnir and I like that more as well.  It's my subjective opinion.  I am not trying to make pronouncements that apply to anyone other than myself.  I just came here to share my opinion, not to try and tell anyone else what they might hear.  To me, in my system, the change is positive and I am happier with it.  If you are interested in your opinions about the sort of subjective criteria you mention is important to you, you'll have to try it for yourself.



Okay. Was a simple question, some times answered with “more or less of…” each.
You made the post.  Best of luck on your smaller Black DAC. I own one too. Glad to read yours sounds good to you.

My Bifrost 2/64 has more tone and texture than some of my higher priced DACs.


----------



## Ableza

decooney said:


> Okay. You made the post.  Best of luck on your smaller Black DAC.


I will.  I don't understand why you decided to come at me over this, but whatever.  Enjoy your music!


----------



## automojo (Nov 10, 2022)

For the most part Gungnir's are almost painfully transparent in some instances in my experience.
They have good bass response, rhythm and drive-but can sound bright at times.
There isn't much smoothness.
What you put in-is what you get out.
Try a first gen cd on one if you want to torture yourself.
They are a reference dac for sure.
Not a listening dac-IMHO.
Sort of like a earlier gen Benchmark Dac, with more "drive".
But plenty of people like them-no need to defend your choice.
The Gungnir is a awesome dac for what it is.
Just my opinion-the only way your going to really know is try one.
You can always send it back.
Buy used-resell.
All part of the hobby.
No one claimed it was inexpensive......


----------



## Daniel Johnston

Ableza said:


> Hi everyone.  I haven't participated much in this thread but wanted to pop in to say I replaced an OG first release Gungnir multibit with the new Bifrost 2/64 in m y living room system and to these ears, the Bifrost sounds better.  I also prefer the standard mode to NOS.  YMMV of course.


Nice!

I replaced my OG Bifrost MB with the Bifrost 2/64 not too long ago. 

As a Yggdrasil user, would you say the BF2 sounds significantly inferior? I’m tempted to snag a close out LIM. I don’t have the hearing to tell minute difference.


----------



## Ableza

Daniel Johnston said:


> Nice!
> 
> I replaced my OG Bifrost MB with the Bifrost 2/64 not too long ago.
> 
> As a Yggdrasil user, would you say the BF2 sounds significantly inferior? I’m tempted to snag a close out LIM. I don’t have the hearing to tell minute difference.


The systems they are currently used on are vastly different, one being a higher-end headphone setup and the other being for 2-channel music in my living room, so it's impossible to compare.  But when I first got Yggdrasil I directly A/B compared it to the Gungnir MB in my headphone system and found Yggdrasil to be vastly superior to my taste.  Indeed, the Yggdrasil replaced a DAC that was 10X more expensive (Wavelength Crimson.)  The Gungnir went into the living room system to replace a broken Kora that was almost 20 years old.  

In my opinion, if you can afford to try a Yggdrasil you should, especially with Unison if you use USB.  To my ears, Unison is a very nice upgrade with improvements in clarity and dynamics.


----------



## Orange5o

Ableza said:


> The systems they are currently used on are vastly different, one being a higher-end headphone setup and the other being for 2-channel music in my living room, so it's impossible to compare.  But when I first got Yggdrasil I directly A/B compared it to the Gungnir MB in my headphone system and found Yggdrasil to be vastly superior to my taste.  Indeed, the Yggdrasil replaced a DAC that was 10X more expensive (Wavelength Crimson.)  The Gungnir went into the living room system to replace a broken Kora that was almost 20 years old.
> 
> In my opinion, if you can afford to try a Yggdrasil you should, especially with Unison if you use USB.  To my ears, Unison is a very nice upgrade with improvements in clarity and dynamics.


Now with the plus version, I am going to get an yggy and push my bf 2/64 to my folkvangr setup.

Is your Yggy OG or LIM? thanks


----------



## Ableza

Orange5o said:


> Now with the plus version, I am going to get an yggy and push my bf 2/64 to my folkvangr setup.
> 
> Is your Yggy OG or LIM? thanks


I have one of the first 100 shipped units, that was later upgraded to A2 analog board and Unison USB.  So OG I suppose.


----------



## cgb3

Daniel Johnston said:


> Nice!
> 
> I replaced my OG Bifrost MB with the Bifrost 2/64 not too long ago.
> 
> As a Yggdrasil user, would you say the BF2 sounds significantly inferior? I’m tempted to snag a close out LIM. I don’t have the hearing to tell minute difference.


Dig your avatar, E-type, v12 v4. I had a 1971 v2.5. Love Jags.


----------



## decooney

automojo said:


> ...
> Not a listening dac-IMHO.
> Sort of like a earlier gen Benchmark Dac, with more "drive".


Got it. Description helps translate it some more. Had a Benchmark. Thx.


----------



## automojo

Just a update on my end.
I ended up choosing a Primaluna Prologue 4 over the Rouge Stereo 100.
It wasn't even close.
Dethroned my excellent sounding PA2400 (not the Sig 1.5 however).
Amazing how well this drive my still stock Infinity RSiiia's.
Stock tubes and all-this is one heck of a amp.
Should have picked one up years ago-esp when K. Deal was blowing them out.
Everything he mentions about it is frankly true..
The 2/64 card is still on the back burner.
I need to live with this for awhile.
I good thing for sure.
But with time constraints-I may be recapping the Infinite's before the card.
They sound so good anyway-one would wonder why.
Superior Z's frankly will benefit most speakers in a good way-never heard a bad install with these.
Hard to say about most components.


----------



## chriseggroll

Hello there, new to headfi!  I have a number of Schiit products though and am very happy with the Bifrost 2/64 upgrade. In my system I have a Raspberry Pi running Volumio sending to my Bifrost via USB and that's my primary source.  The Bifrost outputs to a Freya+ and it to two Vidars which drive a pair of Tekton Pendragons.  

I was happy with the Bifrost prior to the upgrade but it seemed a bit "dark" in my system, which to me means a bit of emphasis on the mid to lower frequencies.  I got the Bifrost 2 sometime in 2021 and the upgrade card around August or September, so I've had some time to listen to it before and after. 

After the upgrade I felt like I had the high end sparkle that I felt was a little lacking and overall just an even better sounding DAC.  I don't listen to headphones very often so I don't have any thoughts on that, but if I upgrade to the Yggy I will definitely move the Bifrost to my computer setup and that might change!


----------



## theeclone

chriseggroll said:


> Hello there, new to headfi!  I have a number of Schiit products though and am very happy with the Bifrost 2/64 upgrade. In my system I have a Raspberry Pi running Volumio sending to my Bifrost via USB and that's my primary source.  The Bifrost outputs to a Freya+ and it to two Vidars which drive a pair of Tekton Pendragons.
> 
> I was happy with the Bifrost prior to the upgrade but it seemed a bit "dark" in my system, which to me means a bit of emphasis on the mid to lower frequencies.  I got the Bifrost 2 sometime in 2021 and the upgrade card around August or September, so I've had some time to listen to it before and after.
> 
> After the upgrade I felt like I had the high end sparkle that I felt was a little lacking and overall just an even better sounding DAC.  I don't listen to headphones very often so I don't have any thoughts on that, but if I upgrade to the Yggy I will definitely move the Bifrost to my computer setup and that might change!


Welcome! We are of the same mind. Also primarily a speaker listener (don't like the term 2ch. Aren't headphones also 2ch? 🤪). My impressions were exactly the same RE: OG and 2/64.

Also, from my experience, you can wring even more quality out of the BF2 by using a source with a better quality USB implementation than that found in an Rpi (even the Rpi 4 wasn't the best in that regard to my ears). Also, been a while since I looked at Volumio, but does it use ALSA drivers? I use Kodi and was surprised at what a difference setting it to use ALSA made.


----------



## chriseggroll

theeclone said:


> Welcome! We are of the same mind. Also primarily a speaker listener (don't like the term 2ch. Aren't headphones also 2ch? 🤪). My impressions were exactly the same RE: OG and 2/64.
> 
> Also, from my experience, you can wring even more quality out of the BF2 by using a source with a better quality USB implementation than that found in an Rpi (even the Rpi 4 wasn't the best in that regard to my ears). Also, been a while since I looked at Volumio, but does it use ALSA drivers? I use Kodi and was surprised at what a difference setting it to use ALSA made.


Yeah Volumio uses alsa, and I've been impressed with how it sounds from the pi.  I've used moOde as well and it's pretty good but had stability issues with it.  I have a TV and Blu ray player that I use as sources as well via toslink and all sound pretty amazing. I use Kodi on the TV but mostly for movies and it is nice.


----------



## theeclone

chriseggroll said:


> Yeah Volumio uses alsa, and I've been impressed with how it sounds from the pi.  I've used moOde as well and it's pretty good but had stability issues with it.  I have a TV and Blu ray player that I use as sources as well via toslink and all sound pretty amazing. I use Kodi on the TV but mostly for movies and it is nice.


Nice! Volumio is looking real good these days. As I understand it there's a paid version but iirc it's for if you want to include streaming services, which I don't anyway.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

automojo said:


> Just a update on my end.
> I ended up choosing a Primaluna Prologue 4 over the Rouge Stereo 100.
> It wasn't even close.
> Dethroned my excellent sounding PA2400 (not the Sig 1.5 however).
> ...


I love PrimaLuna amps. I have a Dialogue Premium HP. I got it Demo price when prices were sane. Still on stock tubes after 5 years in my HT. 

Apparently my local hifi shop had the Paradigm rep bring the top end ($25k/pair) speakers. He was blown away how amazing the Dialogue sounded. 

As for the 2/64 upgrade, I doubt it will make as much difference in sound compared to recapping your infinitys


----------



## automojo (Nov 13, 2022)

Daniel Johnston said:


> I love PrimaLuna amps. I have a Dialogue Premium HP. I got it Demo price when prices were sane. Still on stock tubes after 5 years in my HT.
> 
> Apparently my local hifi shop had the Paradigm rep bring the top end ($25k/pair) speakers. He was blown away how amazing the Dialogue sounded.
> 
> As for the 2/64 upgrade, I doubt it will make as much difference in sound compared to recapping your infinitys


Interesting-thanks for the tips.
I may still just leave the BF2 as is.
I have a friend that wants a 2/64 update anyway.
This guy still has the O.E. tubes.
Reminds me of a modern version of my dad's kit built Cit V (Cit IV preamp).
Same power and smoothness.
That's interesting with the Paradigm rep.
These lil' amps have some serious drive, I think alot of people just don't realize how well they sound.
I just need to find a good source for the O.E. tubes-as Upscale seems to want to sell only to customers that bought the amps from them.
I agree on the prices-I got the amp for less then 1-k.
A ok deal-compared to the new Evo-a great deal.
I liked the Rogue construction wise (super heavy) but it just sounded eh.
Could be the KT-120's not sure.
But at their prices-I wasn't interested in spending another 5+ on tubes.
Just my opinion-it should sound right out of the box-or close.
This was way off for me.


----------



## theveterans

automojo said:


> Interesting-thanks for the tips.
> This guy still has the O.E. tubes.
> Reminds me of a modern version of my dad's kit built Cit V (Cit IV preamp).
> Same power and smoothness.
> ...



A Citation V reborn is definitely my dream amp. Ampsandsound makes one called Zion Monos and will definitely put that on my short list when I'm ready to go back to speaker setup


----------



## Daniel Johnston

automojo said:


> Interesting-thanks for the tips.
> I may still just leave the BF2 as is.
> I have a friend that wants a 2/64 update anyway.
> This guy still has the O.E. tubes.
> ...


Interesting about Kevin Deal. I’m pretty sure he is the US distributor. In essence, all amps bought in the US were bought from him. 

KT120 vs EL34 will absolutely make a difference. I have the EL34. Mine was literally the amp the paradigm rep listened to.


----------



## theveterans

Daniel Johnston said:


> Interesting about Kevin Deal. I’m pretty sure he is the US distributor. In essence, all amps bought in the US were bought from him.
> 
> KT120 vs EL34 will absolutely make a difference. I have the EL34. Mine was literally the amp the paradigm rep listened to.



That's a modest step up in power. EL34 is sweet while KT tubes from 88 to 170 are more macrodynamic progressively as you go larger in power handling


----------



## automojo

Daniel Johnston said:


> Interesting about Kevin Deal. I’m pretty sure he is the US distributor. In essence, all amps bought in the US were bought from him.
> 
> KT120 vs EL34 will absolutely make a difference. I have the EL34. Mine was literally the amp the paradigm rep listened to.


Sure.
I like Roque and the company-just wasn't a good match.
Interesting-seems he is.
I may have seen something about "tube hoarding"-maybe why.
I think Audio Perfection @ MN is a dealer.
I like the EL34's as well.
Using a Van ALstine tube Transcendence 10RB.
A darn near perfect match
Besides the Primaluna-the Transcendence  was probably one of my best value audio purchases in years.


----------



## decooney (Nov 14, 2022)

@automojo seems to me you trusted year ears and know what you like.  That's great.   It's not just the input/output tubes, its the circuit design, caps, parts used, all of it plays a part in the sound and the voicing the design engineer was going for in that amp.  The PPL4 is a neat amp.  If it powers your speakers how you like, and it sounds good to you, no need to change anything. Imo, I think you chose well and got it right  because you know what you liked and heard.  Huge+. A well executed EL34 amp can be pretty sweet.  My last big Cary Audio amp was a strapped triode EL34 amp.  Had ultralinear and strapped triode switch modes. This got me hooked on the EL34 sound, and tried KT88s, KT120s, KT150s since. Helped friends with KT77s (nice). You might look into these for your PPL4.

All of my prior push-pull amps were EL34 & KT88 based amps.  Since then moved into tube mono amps for more power designed to specifically run KT120s or KT150s. Pros/Cons here. Check this, now running KT120s, yet its taken me quite a bit of fine tuning with input tubes, caps, (for my preamp and amplifiers) and the right interconnects to get the sound exactly how I wanted it to be, closer to that same type of EL34 sound you like.  For push-pull amps, my favorite tube sound is EL34s.  Took me 2 years of tuning different things to get my system and amps with KT120s to sound as close to EL34s as I could get them. Conrad Johnson is successful with KT120s, I learned from them. People jump up on output tubes and it does not always sound good. Circuit design matter too. 

If you go with another factory set of PL tubes (iirc, they were being made by Shuguang or PSVANE) for Kevin/Upscale/Primaluna for those amps but don't hold me to it. FYI, there are some folks who've had success with nicely matched Gold Lyon KT77s in their PPL4s. Liking it a lot. Old threads on Agon about this for ref.


----------



## Dawgfish

Congrats on the Primaluna!  I also have the Primaluna Prologue 4 and a Rogue Eighty Eight Magnum (predecessor to Stereo 90 and 100).  I very much enjoy the Prologue 4 on more efficient speakers.  If the speakers are harder to drive the Rogue is the better option.  Both are about equal in sound quality to my ears depending on tubes.  Both respond very well to tube rolling.  

The thing I like about the Prologue is the flexibility in types of power tubes that can be rolled in it and the fact that they don't have to be matched.  Also its very low maintenance for a full tube amp since its a self biasing design and if a power tube blows you simply replace the tube and a fuse.  On my Rogue I've had a couple of power tubes go bad and each time it had to go to the repair shop to replace some resistors.  

I wouldn't get to hung up on getting original OEM tubes for the Primaluna.  I've heard many, many combinations of tubes with it that sound way better than the OEM tubes.  Concentrate on trying different input and driver tubes first as they make the biggest difference.


----------



## automojo

Dawgfish said:


> Congrats on the Primaluna!  I also have the Primaluna Prologue 4 and a Rogue Eighty Eight Magnum (predecessor to Stereo 90 and 100).  I very much enjoy the Prologue 4 on more efficient speakers.  If the speakers are harder to drive the Rogue is the better option.  Both are about equal in sound quality to my ears depending on tubes.  Both respond very well to tube rolling.
> 
> The thing I like about the Prologue is the flexibility in types of power tubes that can be rolled in it and the fact that they don't have to be matched.  Also its very low maintenance for a full tube amp since its a self biasing design and if a power tube blows you simply replace the tube and a fuse.  On my Rogue I've had a couple of power tubes go bad and each time it had to go to the repair shop to replace some resistors.
> 
> I wouldn't get to hung up on getting original OEM tubes for the Primaluna.  I've heard many, many combinations of tubes with it that sound way better than the OEM tubes.  Concentrate on trying different input and driver tubes first as they make the biggest difference.


Nice!
I watched a old Upscale video-Kevin mentioned the 2 center 12ax7 where the ones to replace.
Nice to know on the Prima Tubes.
Surprising the Infinity RSiiiA's are a easy drive.
Not sure on the efficiency-never ran across a spec.
They play plenty loud with the Prolouge.


----------



## Dawgfish

automojo said:


> Nice!
> I watched a old Upscale video-Kevin mentioned the 2 center 12ax7 where the ones to replace.
> Nice to know on the Prima Tubes.
> Surprising the Infinity RSiiiA's are a easy drive.
> ...


Sounds like a great combination!  My favorite 12AX7s to run on the Prologue are RCA 5751 triple mica black plates.  They are not cheap by any means but the sound is worth the price imho.  I like CBS Hytron 5814s for the 12AU7 tubes.  This combination gives a warm yet detailed and dynamic sound with great soundstage and imaging.  That's my favorite but truthfully there are many great combos for the Prologue.  It just depends on synergy with the rest of your components and the type of sound you are looking for.


----------



## automojo

Dawgfish said:


> Sounds like a great combination!  My favorite 12AX7s to run on the Prologue are RCA 5751 triple mica black plates.  They are not cheap by any means but the sound is worth the price imho.  I like CBS Hytron 5814s for the 12AU7 tubes.  This combination gives a warm yet detailed and dynamic sound with great soundstage and imaging.  That's my favorite but truthfully there are many great combos for the Prologue.  It just depends on synergy with the rest of your components and the type of sound you are looking for.


I'm thinking maybe NP Tung Sol's across the board might be a good match-esp w/OG BF2.
Viva Tubs has a couple of levels of Psvanes that look interesting as well.
I need to do some more research.


----------



## Dawgfish

automojo said:


> I'm thinking maybe NP Tung Sol's across the board might be a good match-esp w/OG BF2.
> Viva Tubs has a couple of levels of Psvanes that look interesting as well.
> I need to do some more research.


In the end it just comes down to trying different tubes out and hearing what works best for you.  I normally prefer vintage tubes but I did pick up a pair of new production Tung Sol 7581As for my Mogwai.  It sounds excellent and is one of the few new production tubes that I think competes with many of its vintage counterparts.  If the Tung Sol El34s sound anywhere near as good as the 7581As you're in for a treat!  The thing I've found with the BF2 is it sounds great with everything so you should be all set there.


----------



## Dawgfish

I just checked as I never ran 6L6GCs or 7581As in my Prologue 4 but they can be used with it.  I can personally vouch per above the new production Tung Sol 7581As are excellent sounding tubes.  You might want to consider giving them a try in your Prologue.


----------



## automojo

Dawgfish said:


> I just checked as I never ran 6L6GCs or 7581As in my Prologue 4 but they can be used with it.  I can personally vouch per above the new production Tung Sol 7581As are excellent sounding tubes.  You might want to consider giving them a try in your Prologue.


Did you ever try the NP Mullards?


----------



## Dawgfish

automojo said:


> Did you ever try the NP Mullards?


I did not.  I only used vintage Mullard XF2, XF3, and XF4 EL34s with it (as far as Mullards).  Needless to say they all sound excellent with the Prologue.  The only new production (at the time) EL34 I tried with the Prologue was Wing C El34s.  I don't believe they are in production anymore.  They did sound good with the Prologue however.  

I have tried new production Gold Lion KT88s and Tung Sol KT120s with the Prologue and they both sound excellent with it.  It sounds like you prefer the EL34 sound though.


----------



## automojo

Yes EL-34.
I'm reading the Tung-sol EL34-b is a bit different then the traditional EL-34 sound, like the Mullard seems to be-or Psvane.
Maybe a bit brighter?
Hard to say-as they are all different amps


----------



## MacMan31

So I finally got around to doing the firmware update. I assume it worked because the BF2 still works as it should. Should I expect any change in sound? Apparently I can change from NOS to OS mode. How do I do that?


----------



## chriseggroll

You hold in the input button until it slow pulses, but I thought the new 2/64 card was required for that, maybe not.


----------



## automojo

Nope
NOS is part of the generic upgrade


----------



## MacMan31

chriseggroll said:


> You hold in the input button until it slow pulses, but I thought the new 2/64 card was required for that, maybe not.



The lights are slow pulsing now. Do they just do that continuously until I hit the input button again? I don't hear any change in the sound.


----------



## chriseggroll

Yes, that is how you toggle NOS on and off, pulse is NOS, no pulse regular.  It's just whether the digital filter is on vs off.  The firmware just fixed a glitch with certain sampling rates, the real audio difference is using the new 2/64 card.  The filter toggle is really subtle


----------



## theveterans

MacMan31 said:


> The lights are slow pulsing now. Do they just do that continuously until I hit the input button again? I don't hear any change in the sound.



YMMV. On the OG BF2, the mids and vocals are more upfront and the imaging more rounded (more front to back depth but staging is primarily front and center) rather than pushed backed to the farther end of the stage compared to OS mode. Also, NOS mode has more microdetails than OS mode on my system (at the cost of very slight microdynamics penalty)


----------



## Sam Lord (Nov 16, 2022)

theveterans said:


> YMMV. On the OG BF2, the mids and vocals are more upfront and the imaging more rounded (more front to back depth but staging is primarily front and center) rather than pushed backed to the farther end of the stage compared to OS mode. Also, NOS mode has more microdetails than OS mode on my system (at the cost of very slight microdynamics penalty).


Why would _anyone_ use a DAC without a digital filter???   The _sound_ of the NOS mode without a digital filter is _distorted_ because the circuit requires a filtered input!!!  The whole reason for the NOS setting is to try _alternatives_ to Schiit’s filter!  That’s why nearly every high end DAC has a switchable NOS mode.  Sorry for yelling, but when people buy an $800 DAC they deserve correct advice about how to use it.

Why doesn’t Schiit tell you this?  Because Mike Moffatt considers his closed-form filter to be good enough.  He dislikes the notion that external filters housed in servers might sound better, even though they can have much greater processing resources.  I’m still waiting for a review of HQPlayer’s filter choices played on the BF 2 64. (I used to have an MB Bifrost and really liked it.)


----------



## theveterans

Sam Lord said:


> Why would _anyone_ use a DAC without a digital filter??? The _sound_ of the NOS mode without a digital filter is _distorted_ because the circuit requires a filtered input!!!



Implementation on the analog stage negates the never ending aliasing oscillation from NOS. That’s why on the right system, NOS Does NOT sound distorted, fake heck some of the best DACs I’ve heard are actually NOS DACs and they’re typically paired with a tube preamplifier or tube power amp since tubes typically have a rolled off bandwidth and has far less energy at the ultrasonic regions than SS amps. Because of that, it makes tubes an ideal low pass filter for the NOS DAC


----------



## Pappi Daa Hobo

I have an issue on my Bifrost 2/64 where if I leave and come back hours later the DAC has that terrible sounding compression issue. This does not happen when I'm switching sample rates or in exclusive mode. Only when I leave for a few hours and come back. switching to NOS mode and back to OS fixes it for that entire listening session. 
I received the unit last week and assumed it came with lates firmware however just in case I updated it to the latest firmware and the problem still persists. Working with Schiit now.  


As far as sound goes, I've had the Bifrost 2 Unison, D90SE, Holo Spring 3 KTE, and a few others. This 2/64 is a massive upgrade from the previous Bifrost in my opinion. The previous version was good, but to my ears the 2/64 is a TRUE middle ground between full R2R and Delta Sigma options. and for many I can see this being end game. 

*Comparisons (*I am terrible at this, but I will try my best*) *

These are all using an iFi iCAN pro signature amp with HE1000SE headphones mainly. I have used other headphones, but the comparisons were used with 1000SE

_Comparing the Holo Spring 3 and the 2/6_4  - This probably is not a fair comparison, but i was actually impressed how the 2/64 stood its ground against the spring 3. There is slightly more treble energy in the 2/64 but the spring 3 is superior when it comes to treble control and tonality. The spring 3 has better weight with its notes and reaches further down into sub bass, has better sound stage and imaging but has a more relaxed nature. The 2/64 has a way of showing you micro details with a slightly more in your face presentation to the natural presentation of the spring 3. Both are good at depth in the soundstage but the spring 3 presents everything with a natural holographic stage. the 2/64 has good separation but less space in between instruments. There were some songs i preferred the dynamics from the Bifrost especially with electronic/bass music. 

_Bifrost 2 Unison vs 2/64_ - In my opinion the 2/64 version is just better at everything than the old version. More space, More dynamic, more depth, better subbass and texture. the 64 does have a *slightly* more thin mid range when compared to the older Bifrost 2. With the old version things could sound a bit too warm. (To some this may be a benefit) The new version still has a slight warm tilt but not to the extent of the Bifrost 2 unison. I could see some people liking the old version if they have a very bright chain. 

_D90SE VS 2/64_ - this is an easy one if you like pure resolution and a very intimate presentation the D90SE is for you. It is more resolving than the 2/64 but the tradeoff is everything sounded very digital to me on the D90. The 2/64 has way better stage size/depth and way better subbass performance and a more organic signature. 

_EF400 VS 2/64_ - Let me preface this one by saying that i think the EF-400 is very good value for the money considering its a dac/amp for less than the Bifrost, but just in case anyone was wondering.... i hooked it up to the iCAN pro via SE output to use just the DAC stage. Well...... the Bifrost is better in every single way EXCEPT the HE400 is just super smooth. I would only prefer the EF-400 if I was listening to like Lo-Fi study music. The Bifrost is in a completely different league here.  

*Sorry if my ramblings make no sense this is just my opinion but i am impressed with the 2/64 version. one of the best DACS I've heard sub $1,500*


----------



## Sam Lord

theveterans said:


> Implementation on the analog stage negates the never ending aliasing oscillation from NOS. That’s why on the right system, NOS Does NOT sound distorted, fake heck some of the best DACs I’ve heard are actually NOS DACs and they’re typically paired with a tube preamplifier or tube power amp since tubes typically have a rolled off bandwidth and has far less energy at the ultrasonic regions than SS amps. Because of that, it makes tubes an ideal low pass filter for the NOS DAC


Analog filters take care of the worst problems, and on _some_ circuits do the job just fine.  But the DAC chips in Schiit’s multibit products run very slowly and need digital filters to minimize their distortion.  The ones in the BF 2 64 run somewhat faster at 192kHz, so they don’t suffer as badly without digital filtering as the earlier ones like uin the OG Yggdrasil.  Now, all of these choices involve compromise, and I have no grounds to question your preference.  But if you haven’t tried external filters on your unit, you can’t know what benefit they bring.  One major benefit of NOS is getting the digital filtering hardware out of the chassis (or turning off their operation in the chassis).  Schiit at least has it off the chip, which removes most of the processor noise.  But it’s really better to do as much computation as possible out of the chassis.  Why not try HQP or some alternatives?  They can make a huge sonic difference for a small investment.  Thanks for your input.


----------



## Sam Lord

Pappi Daa Hobo said:


> I have an issue on my Bifrost 2/64 where if I leave and come back hours later the DAC has that terrible sounding compression issue. This does not happen when I'm switching sample rates or in exclusive mode. Only when I leave for a few hours and come back. switching to NOS mode and back to OS fixes it for that entire listening session.
> I received the unit last week and assumed it came with lates firmware however just in case I updated it to the latest firmware and the problem still persists. Working with Schiit now.
> 
> 
> ...


What filter(s) did you use with the Holo Spring?  They really need to be run on external filters (NOS) to come to life.


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## FellowTraveller (Nov 16, 2022)

Pappi Daa Hobo said:


> I have an issue on my Bifrost 2/64 where if I leave and come back hours later the DAC has that terrible sounding compression issue. This does not happen when I'm switching sample rates or in exclusive mode. Only when I leave for a few hours and come back. switching to NOS mode and back to OS fixes it for that entire listening session.
> I received the unit last week and assumed it came with lates firmware however just in case I updated it to the latest firmware and the problem still persists. Working with Schiit now.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Your comparisons and observations are very helpful! I have the 2/64 card in hand now, but have to wait to return to my home in Thailand before I can hook it up and hear it. I like comparisons with DACs from different price categories. That the BF 2/64 can hold up in many ways, or come close, to the Holo Spring 3 is good news, considering that the latter is around $3,000 USD if I'm not mistaken, which amounts to the good part of a scholarship for one of my students. So I'll never be going there. Thanks again!


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## rivonlol

Will be putting a basically brand new Bifrost 2/64 up for sale soon if anyone is interested.
Amazing DAC, was just using it to compare with others and have decided on going full R2R


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## TheFrator

rivonlol said:


> Will be putting a basically brand new Bifrost 2/64 up for sale soon if anyone is interested.
> Amazing DAC, was just using it to compare with others and have decided on going full R2R


What DAC are you going to over it?


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## rivonlol

Currently have the Spring 3 KTE. The Bifrost does a lot of what the spring does compared to standard delta sigma that I have heard. The spring just adds more smoothness to the high end which I enjoy. Currently in process of getting a May KTE.


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## chriseggroll

There's some pretty good info on NOS vs Oversampling here:  https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/nos-dac

Personally, I would only use NOS on a DAC designed around it like the Holo Spring or May, but it was an easy option for them to add in case some people want to do something else.  I think their filter is good and more Schitty sounding, if that is a phrase.


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## decooney (Nov 16, 2022)

theveterans said:


> Implementation on the analog stage negates the never ending aliasing oscillation from NOS. That’s why on the right system, NOS Does NOT sound distorted, fake heck some of the best DACs I’ve heard are actually NOS DACs and they’re typically paired with a tube preamplifier or tube power amp since tubes typically have a rolled off bandwidth and has far less energy at the ultrasonic regions than SS amps. Because of that, it makes tubes an ideal low pass filter for the NOS DAC





Sam Lord said:


> Analog filters take care of the worst problems, and on _some_ circuits do the job just fine.  But the DAC chips in Schiit’s multibit products run very slowly and need digital filters to minimize their distortion.  The ones in the BF 2 64 run somewhat faster at 192kHz, so they don’t suffer as badly without digital filtering as the earlier ones like uin the OG Yggdrasil.  Now, all of these choices involve compromise, and I have no grounds to question your preference.  But if you haven’t tried external filters on your unit, you can’t know what benefit they bring.  One major benefit of NOS is getting the digital filtering hardware out of the chassis (or turning off their operation in the chassis).  Schiit at least has it off the chip, which removes most of the processor noise.  But it’s really better to do as much computation as possible out of the chassis.  Why not try HQP or some alternatives?  They can make a huge sonic difference for a small investment.  Thanks for your input.



+1 @theveterans  What he said. Until you've heard NOS mode on the Bifrost 2/64 dac with the right tube preamplifier and tube amplifier behind it, also with speakers, you don't know what you are missing out on.  Sure, we've tried the internal MCB digital filter.  In my particular tube system, the MCB filter can sound a little boosted, bloated, bassy, slightly grainy, oversamply, and a bit more forward. NOS is bliss on my tube system with large in-home speakers. Have to hear it to understand it. Same result with my other NOS tube dac too. Its been fun to compare this BF264 dac with its NOS and MCB filter modes. Depth, more musical and more engaging. Not even close. Hands down, enjoy NOS the most. Your experience may vary on solid state preamplification and amplification and/or headphones.


----------



## Sam Lord

decooney said:


> +1 @theveterans  What he said. Until you've heard NOS mode on the Bifrost 2/64 dac with the right tube preamplifier and tube amplifier behind it, also with speakers, you don't know what you are missing out on.  Sure, we've tried the internal MCB digital filter.  In my particular tube system, the MCB filter can sound a little boosted, bloated, bassy, slightly grainy, oversamply, and a bit more forward. NOS is bliss on my tube system with large in-home speakers. Have to hear it to understand it. Same result with my other NOS tube dac too. Its been fun to compare this BF264 dac with its NOS and MCB filter modes. Depth, more musical and more engaging. Not even close. Hands down, enjoy NOS the most. Your experience may vary on solid state preamplification and amplification and/or headphones.


But apparently neither of you have used NOS as it was intended.  It’s great that you like the BF 2 64 in pure NOS mode, but that’s no substitute for a powerful filter.  Roon, JRiver, Audirvana, and HQPlayer have them.  The last costs around $200 and has closed form filters like MCB and many other types with vastly more power than can be put in a DAC chassis.  I used HQP for years and often got fed up with the interface, but the sound was worth it.


----------



## MacMan31

The BF 2/64 upgrade card is $400 Canadian plus any shipping and customs. That's quite the pricy upgrade. Is the sound change really noticeable?


----------



## Luckyleo

MacMan31 said:


> The BF 2/64 upgrade card is $400 Canadian plus any shipping and customs. That's quite the pricy upgrade. Is the sound change really noticeable?


Yes!  to me.....  A completely different unit IMHO, YMMV

Leo


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 16, 2022)

Sam Lord said:


> But apparently neither of you have used NOS as it was intended.  It’s great that you like the BF 2 64 in pure NOS mode, but that’s no substitute for a powerful filter.  Roon, JRiver, Audirvana, and HQPlayer have them.  The last costs around $200 and has closed form filters like MCB and many other types with vastly more power than can be put in a DAC chassis.  I used HQP for years and often got fed up with the interface, but the sound was worth it.


I haven't tried any of this, but that seems like a limiting view. The whole point of what they were saying was the tube pre-amp and amp gives a better sound than a filter to them. Sure, HQPlayer might be great, but they are already trying the filter in the BF2 and much prefer the tube route. It makes perfect sense to me, the whole point of tubes is to create a different sound. So if someone found magic with that combo and NOS, all the power to them.


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## theeclone (Nov 16, 2022)

DeckHiFi said:


> Free
> 
> I haven't tried any of this, but that seems like a limiting view. The whole point of what they were saying was the tube pre-amp and amp gives a better sound than a filter to them. Sure, HQPlayer might be great, but they are already trying the filter in the BF2 and much prefer the tube route. It makes perfect sense to me, the whole point of tubes is to create a different sound. So if someone found magic with that combo and NOS, all the power to them.


Plus, as was discussed earlier, no amount of digital filtering will remove the ultrasonics (sometimes referred to as aliasing, but technically they are mirror frequencies) that result from the lack of an analog smoothing (or "reconstruction") filter when in NOS mode. I think they're going on the theory that the tubes are doing some of that smoothing for them.

And I believe theveterens is doing some filtering/upsampling in their player anyway. But of course, you can't effectively upsample to anything higher than 192K in the player as that's the highest the BF2 will allow as its input.

Since the BF2 is a 8x OS DAC when using Schiit's MCB filter, my theory is that there is a smoothing filter optimized for 8x, or that perhaps at 8x, the ultrasonics are just not a concern (as opposed to at 192K or below).

But yeah, stairstep waveform coming out of the analog section of the DAC == ultrasonics, pure and simple. No way around it. Jason confirmed that in NOS mode that's the kind of waveform being output from the BF2.


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## theveterans (Nov 16, 2022)

theeclone said:


> And I believe theveterens is doing some filtering/upsampling in their player anyway. But of course, you can't effectively upsample to anything higher than 192K in the player as that's the highest the BF2 will allow as its input.



No upsampling unless I’m playing hi-res files which puts the artifacts far higher than audible frequency range. A lot of tube preamplifiers typically give great dynamics and excellent holographic imaging on their own. Schiit’s MCB filters does some of that digitally and when paired with those combo, it sounds like “too much of a good thing” which deviates from the natural/lifelike presentation to a less realistic presentation. Also, hi-res files at 24/96 mixes an excellent blend of oversampling smoothing effects without sacrificing NOS sheer microdetail retrieval while 24/192 goes even smoother than 24/96. Obviously this is describing BF2 and tubes and definitely would have a different experience with SS or op-amp based amps. The hi-res files on NOS mode  sounds different than hires files on MCB where there’s less variation in smoothness in MCB mode. Also, MCB mode hits a little bit bloomier on the bass notes than NOS even when playing back hires files on either modes


----------



## theeclone

theveterans said:


> No upsampling unless I’m playing hi-res files which puts the artifacts far higher than audible frequency range. A lot of tube preamplifiers typically give great dynamics and excellent holographic imaging on their own. Schiit’s MCB filters does some of that digitally and when paired with those combo, it sounds like “too much of a good thing” which deviates from the natural/lifelike presentation to a less realistic presentation. Also, hi-res files at 24/96 mixes an excellent blend of oversampling smoothing effects without sacrificing NOS sheer microdetail retrieval while 24/192 goes even smoother than 24/96. Obviously this is describing BF2 and tubes and definitely would have a different experience with SS or op-amp based amps


My apologies. I think maybe it was another head-fier that was loving the sound of upsampling in their player w BF2 NOS mode.


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## theveterans

theeclone said:


> My apologies. I think maybe it was another head-fier that was loving the sound of upsampling in their player w BF2 NOS mode.



No worries I actually like the hi-res 24/96 files on NOS mode just as much as the 16/44.1 😃
It’s only the 24/192 that IMHO needs better HQPlayer upsampling to tone down the smoothness and bring the raw microdetails and microdynamics front and center to my tastes


----------



## TheFrator

rivonlol said:


> Currently have the Spring 3 KTE. The Bifrost does a lot of what the spring does compared to standard delta sigma that I have heard. The spring just adds more smoothness to the high end which I enjoy. Currently in process of getting a May KTE.


How does the imaging and soundstage compare between the Spring 3 KTE and Bifrost 2/64? I've been looking at Spring 3 KTE as my next DAC sometime down the road. My test track is _Reflection _by Tool for this.


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## rivonlol

TheFrator said:


> How does the imaging and soundstage compare between the Spring 3 KTE and Bifrost 2/64? I've been looking at Spring 3 KTE as my next DAC sometime down the road. My test track is _Reflection _by Tool for this.


Using Qobuz > Spring 3 / Bifrost 264 > WA22 > Atrium

Just did a full listen on both DACs and jotted down notes on each and compared.

The drums in the beginning seemed tighter on the Bifrost but fuller on the Spring
The guitar around 3 minutes on the Bifrost sounded jagged/pixelated. almost like I was looking at 8bit art rather than a photograph. 
the vocals around 4 minutes sound more isolated/separated from instruments on the Bifrost. 
the bowww sound around 5 minutes again sounds jagged/pixelated on the Bifrost compared to full and complete on the spring.
guitar at 6:30 again sounds harsh. on the Spring, it just blends in with the music. much more enjoyable to listen to. 
around 7:15 the guitar seemed to overpower the song on the Bifrost and sound harsh. the spring was able to separate them better while blending them together... almost like an oil painting with lots of colors vs 8bit art.

the soundstage on the spring seems wider left to right but narrower front to back.

I think if you are using your DAC to listen to music, you will enjoy the Spring 3 much more. If your goal is to pinpoint enemies in CS:GO or COD, Bifrost is the way to go.

Keep in mind, I have been listening to the spring for a couple weeks now without listening to the bifrost at all and i just used it cold, i know it may sound better warmed up. so some of the things I noticed may be exaggerated to me. 

Also, if you are looking to buy a Spring 3 KTE, I am able to sell one at a decent price that has cosmetic damage. Still sounds perfect! I liked it so much I plan on getting a May very soon.


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## decooney (Nov 16, 2022)

rivonlol said:


> Keep in mind, I have been listening to the spring for a couple weeks now without listening to the bifrost at all and i *just used it cold, *i know it may sound better warmed up. so some of the things I noticed may be exaggerated to me.



The first 14 days I owned my Bifrost 2/64 I was regularly reminded by Schiit experienced folks here to 1) leave it on, 2) ensure its been on for at least 24hrs.

And, 3) If I leave any of my gear powered off for more than a week and startup cold and compare it, the listening test is not helpful until its been on 24-48hrs.

Noticed the same with any of my solid state or tube preamps, amplifiers, dacs, and even the streamer itself.  Cold-start sounds cold.


----------



## Sam Lord

theveterans said:


> No worries I actually like the hi-res 24/96 files on NOS mode just as much as the 16/44.1 😃
> It’s only the 24/192 that IMHO needs better HQPlayer upsampling to tone down the smoothness and bring the raw microdetails and microdynamics front and center to my tastes





decooney said:


> +1 @theveterans  What he said. Until you've heard NOS mode on the Bifrost 2/64 dac with the right tube preamplifier and tube amplifier behind it, also with speakers, you don't know what you are missing out on.  Sure, we've tried the internal MCB digital filter.  In my particular tube system, the MCB filter can sound a little boosted, bloated, bassy, slightly grainy, oversamply, and a bit more forward. NOS is bliss on my tube system with large in-home speakers. Have to hear it to understand it. Same result with my other NOS tube dac too. Its been fun to compare this BF264 dac with its NOS and MCB filter modes. Depth, more musical and more engaging. Not even close. Hands down, enjoy NOS the most. Your experience may vary on solid state preamplification and amplification and/or headphones.


Okay, thank you.  I just wanted to be sire that prospective buyers understood that the main reason for Schiit’s enabling an NOS mode in BF 2 64 and the Yggy+ was to satisfy users who wanted to try external filters.  And, it is finally clear to me, people who want to try NOS alone.  You folks have considered all the options.

It is an interesting idea to use a tube amp as a lowpass filter for DACs with >=88.1k outputs.  I am too fond of fast, accurate bass to return to output transformers, though they can be magical.  Tube pres are great, but won’t rolloff like the amps.  But let’s make clear that analog (i.e. output) filters like series caps will reduce aliasing and can eliminate the stairstep output, but the digital (i.e. input)  filters can only reduce aliasing and some other artifacts.  Thanks for your comments.


----------



## TheFrator

rivonlol said:


> Using Qobuz > Spring 3 / Bifrost 264 > WA22 > Atrium
> 
> Just did a full listen on both DACs and jotted down notes on each and compared.
> 
> ...


Thank you very very much!


----------



## XGeneX88

Pappi Daa Hobo said:


> I have an issue on my Bifrost 2/64 where if I leave and come back hours later the DAC has that terrible sounding compression issue. This does not happen when I'm switching sample rates or in exclusive mode. Only when I leave for a few hours and come back. switching to NOS mode and back to OS fixes it for that entire listening session.
> I received the unit last week and assumed it came with lates firmware however just in case I updated it to the latest firmware and the problem still persists. Working with Schiit now.
> 
> 
> ...


Dude thank you.. your comparisons are helpful beyond belief. So glad you shared your findings / comparisons. Def swung me over to pull the trigger on a 2/64 Bifrost. It sounds exactly like what I'm looking for.


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## decooney

> _@XGeneX88 Dude thank you.. your comparisons are helpful beyond belief. So glad you shared your findings / comparisons. Def swung me over to pull the trigger on a 2/64 Bifrost. It sounds exactly like what I'm looking for._



@XGeneX88 fwiw, my primary dac is a tube dac, and decided I wanted a non-tube dac to rotate in once in a while for testing purposes.  Was not willing to spend up on a 2nd dac as a backup but did have my eyes on the Yggy originally.  Reading some very early reports on the new BF and BF 2/64, and a few comments by Jason Stoddard personally running a BF on his desk instead of Yggy, thought what the heck, give it a go for a 15 day demo. Was likely to return it. Was not a Schiit fanboy or anything. Grown to appreciate the design, hardware, got geeked out for a second to try something with the new TI chips. 

The BF 2/64 was not supposed to surprise me or capture my attention.  At 7-10 days in, I was hearing some new/different things with tracks I had heard hundreds of times prior. The 15 day trial period came up and I simply could not get myself to want to return it. Kept it.  My first thought was to rotate dacs every 15-30 days. Now well past a month, still have no desire to swap it out. It has not moved.  The BF 2/64 dac is still in primary position. Liking it.


----------



## schneller

Still wish someone could post listening impressions:

Bifrost 2/64 vs. Gungnir Multibit Unison

Bifrost 2/64 vs. Yggdrasil LIM

In a 2.0 speaker setup, preferably using SE DAC outputs.


----------



## Pappi Daa Hobo

XGeneX88 said:


> Dude thank you.. your comparisons are helpful beyond belief. So glad you shared your findings / comparisons. Def swung me over to pull the trigger on a 2/64 Bifrost. It sounds exactly like what I'm looking for.


Glad I could help! Enjoy! I know I do


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## decooney (Nov 19, 2022)

Question - curious to know if others here on the head-fi.org forum have experimented *trying different Digital Coax SPDIF cables *between your streamer device and the Bifrost 2/64 DAC yet?

Note: as good as the unison USB is supposed to be, I'm not a usb fan, prefer SPDIF, just my choice.  I've restarted this process, utilizing some existing cables I have from Analysis Plus (Crystal OCC) and another Audioquest Cinnamon Digital coax I had from a few years back.  May try a Cardas Clear SDPIF some time this winter season.  Just for grins I went from my current AP/Crystal spdif back to my AQ digital spdif.   A notable difference I was truly not expecting to hear.  Quite interesting, like What type of difference? The AP/Crystal is much fuller sounding with a much more impressive soundstage with this BF 2/64 dac

Bringing this up because it seems quite relevant to try different cables with this dac - if you can borrow/swap, etc. Again I was really not expecting to hear much difference and had to swap back-and-forth a few times just to believe the difference that was actually occurring between two different SPDIF digital inteconnect cables.

-----

[Edit] re-reading my post, I may not be communicating very well.  I guess what I'm really trying to say is this DAC for whatever reasons responds very well to different types of SPDIF/Digital RCA interconnect cables.


----------



## mvneufeld

Really appreciate you guys' discussion above on NOS and upsampling in software. I had tried NOS mode and didn't like it, but running NOS and upsampling to 92 kHz in Audirvana is great. There's treble smoothness and now I've got splashy cymbals, too. As theeclone said, "an excellent blend of oversampling smoothing effects without sacrificing NOS sheer microdetail retrieval." Perfect!


----------



## theeclone

mvneufeld said:


> Really appreciate you guys' discussion above on NOS and upsampling in software. I had tried NOS mode and didn't like it, but running NOS and upsampling to 92 kHz in Audirvana is great. There's treble smoothness and now I've got splashy cymbals, too. As theeclone said, "an excellent blend of oversampling smoothing effects without sacrificing NOS sheer microdetail retrieval." Perfect!


Sounds like something theveterens would say. I strongly dislike NOS mode on BF2 in my system at all sample rates 🙂


----------



## mvneufeld

Sorry - You're right!


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## decooney (Nov 20, 2022)

theeclone said:


> _Sounds like something theveterens would say. I strongly dislike NOS mode on BF2 in my system at all sample rates 🙂_



@theeclone for learning purposes and to understand different setups out there in use by members with BF2/NOS, a few questions if you don't mind, I hope.


Is your source dac, preamp, and amplifier all solid-state gear (no tubes) in your setup? 


Is yours a new BF 2/64 unit -or- a prior gen Bifrost 2 unit that has ben upgraded with the Bifrost 2/64 card and firmware adding NOS capability? 

The reason for the questions has to do with something @theveterans mentioned about tubes in the signal path and I'm curious to know which version of 2/64 people are running, and perhaps the results folks are hearing in their setups.  Thanks in advance for your reply if you see this.


----------



## theeclone

decooney said:


> @theeclone for learning purposes and to understand different setups out there in use by members with BF2/NOS, a few questions if you don't mind, I hope.
> 
> 
> Is your source dac, preamp, and amplifier all solid-state gear (no tubes) in your setup?
> ...


Yeah, I was also curious about tubes, and posited that maybe they were acting like an analog smoothing filter somehow. I actually run everything thru a Lyr 3. Have tried with a Sylvania 6sn7gta but usually use LISST.

One possibility as to why I still don't like the NOS sound, even w the Sylvania tube is that there's a Saga S in between my BF2 and the Lyr 3. The Saga S is always in active mode with the volume up all the way, so that it's basically a source selector. The BF2 started out as an OG and was upgraded to a 2/64.

So the signal path is 2/64-->Saga S-->Lyr 3-->Solid State Adcom Speaker Amp-->Advent AS2s. Also disliked the sound of NOS coming directly out of the Lyr 3 with my Grado cans, if memory serves.

So, either the mirror frequencies from NOS mode are being reflected down into the audio band when they hit the Saga S, or I just plain don't like the sound of a stairstep waveform whereas others don't mind it. As was mentioned earlier, a tube preamp probably wouldn't filter out those ultrasonic mirror frequencies anyway, whereas a tube amp might. It's all speculation to me at this point, but I know what I like, and a stairstep waveform coming out of the BF2, even when playing back 192KHz flac files, ain't it, at least in this system! 🙂


----------



## tincanear (Nov 21, 2022)

theeclone said:


> Yeah, I was also curious about tubes, and posited that maybe they were acting like an analog smoothing filter somehow. I actually run everything thru a Lyr 3. Have tried with a Sylvania 6sn7gta but usually use LISST.
> 
> One possibility as to why I still don't like the NOS sound, even w the Sylvania tube is that there's a Saga S in between my BF2 and the Lyr 3. The Saga S is always in active mode with the volume up all the way, so that it's basically a source selector. The BF2 started out as an OG and was upgraded to a 2/64.
> 
> ...



if you are using the Saga S basically as an analog input selector with its volume control maxxed (gain = 1 = 0dB), why not use the passive mode for lower distortion / simpler signal path instead?

in NOS (non-oversampling) mode, the BF2's analog output will include the 20-20kHz audio signal plus odd harmonics of the digital input sampling frequency sent out of the digital source (streamer, CD transport, etc.) perhaps up to ~400 kHz.  for example, with a digital streamer sending 16-bit 44.1k into the BF2 in NOS mode, 44.1kHz and 132.3kHz spuriae would present on the analog outputs; similarly, with 192kHz flac files, there will be 192kHz sampling frequency artifacts on the analog outputs.

Saga S has a 400kHz (-3dB) bandwidth, so those 192kHz artifacts will be passed right through to the next device.

Many transducers (headphones, tweeters) have electrical roll-off approaching 20kHz (or even 10kHz or 15kHz), so sometimes mechanical resonances are intentionally designed in to "extend" the frequency response past 20kHz. 

most tubes (6SN7, 6DJ8, 6N1P, ECC88, etc.) have a natural bandwidth extending to hundreds of MHz, so designers of tube audio pre and power amps often design in low-pass filtering with fc in the ultrasonic range (perhaps 50kHz ~100kHz) to prevent issues with RF interference (old-school AM radio band is 530-1700kHz).

IMO, the NOS mode on BF2 (and now yggy+) was designed for use with 352kHz or 384kHz digital sources (that up-sample native 44.1k/48k/96k files to 352/384k within the digital source).


----------



## theeclone

tincanear said:


> why not use the passive mode for lower distortion / simpler signal path instead?


Because I don't like how it sounds as much as active.



tincanear said:


> IMO, the NOS mode on BF2 (and now yggy+) was designed for use with 352kHz or 384kHz digital sources (that up-sample native 44.1k/48k/96k files to 352/384k within the digital source).


The BF2 and Yggy won't accept anything higher than 192KHz input, so that just plain wouldn't work (or if your setup is not bit perfect it might get resampled lower anyway).


----------



## tincanear (Nov 21, 2022)

For minimal ultrasonic artifacts on the BF2 analog output (b/c of 192k input limitation) the MCB filter should be enabled.  One could always 2x/4x up-sample on the streamer side from 44.1k/48k/96k native source files to 176k/192k with their filter of choice, and then let the MCB within BF2 upsample 2x to the internal DAC chip 352/384k rate.

lots of variables to tweak, signal chains and listening preferences are different.


----------



## NCPat

Bifrost 2 relays and usb c

It used to regularly click when first turned on and when idle. Now silent or just one click. Using USB c to i phone. For past few months had trouble recog iphone. Unplugging, on off stuff eventually got to work. Now today nothing or just one click no hand shake

Before i buy new usb and apple dongle, wondering if problem with bifrost2. It seems the clicking is the unit checking on inputs- cycling thru the 3 choices. Could be out of warranty

Thoghts?


----------



## davidfrance

NCPat said:


> Bifrost 2 relays and usb c
> 
> It used to regularly click when first turned on and when idle. Now silent or just one click. Using USB c to i phone. For past few months had trouble recog iphone. Unplugging, on off stuff eventually got to work. Now today nothing or just one click no hand shake
> 
> ...


And you have done a test with a PC, not to an iPhone, to make sure that doesn’t work either ? I ask because I have never had any problem with a PC.


----------



## MarkF786

I'm curious, does there seem to be a majority opinion that the Bifrost 2/64 is an upgrade to the stock Bifrost 2?  I ponder if it's a 1) a side-grade, 2) just a way to Schiit to deal with supply chain shortages, and/or 3) purely 'psychological'?

I'm ponder if to pull the trigger.  It'd be very hard to A/B the pre/post upgrade, since IMHO auditory memory at that fine level of detail is faulty - and even when quickly switching between A/B comparison of DACs, I often find the differences very subtle if audible at all.


----------



## Luckyleo

Personally, it was one of the few times in my listening experience where the difference was immediate, not incremental, and in my opinion, a huge upgrade..... YMMV

Leo


----------



## The Hawk

NCPat said:


> Bifrost 2 relays and usb c
> 
> It used to regularly click when first turned on and when idle. Now silent or just one click. Using USB c to i phone. For past few months had trouble recog iphone. Unplugging, on off stuff eventually got to work. Now today nothing or just one click no hand shake
> 
> ...


The clicking you hear is the muting relay……it will click if the SPIDF signal is interrupted 

Below is a link to Schiit’s troubleshooting guide for DACs

https://www.schiit.com/guides/dac-problems


----------



## tincanear (Nov 21, 2022)

NCPat said:


> Bifrost 2 relays and usb c
> 
> It used to regularly click when first turned on and when idle. Now silent or just one click. Using USB c to i phone. For past few months had trouble recog iphone. Unplugging, on off stuff eventually got to work. Now today nothing or just one click no hand shake
> 
> ...


IIRC, BF2 warranty is 5 years in USA.

+1 about trying other USB sources like a win 10 or Win 11 PC, another known good USB cable, as well as the toslink optical and/or coaxial s/pdif inputs (potential sources include TV's, CD players, older DVD players, gaming consoles, AV receivers with legacy support).

if the toslink and coaxial s/pdif sources work, then you might email info@schiit.com about just swapping out the USB module instead of sending the entire unit back.


----------



## cgb3

theeclone said:


> Sounds like something theveterens would say. I strongly dislike NOS mode on BF2 in my system at all sample rates 🙂


I felt the same. Tried a few songs, better with the filter. Tonight, I read a post from one complaining his Bifrost became "clogged" after extended use, and using the NOS feature reset the DAC. Yea, I'll invest 3 seconds (the time to change the Bifrost to NOS by depressing the power button) of my time to investigate, but then, I'm always about the music (5 seconds or more, I'm out).

My album tonight is Julian Lage _View with a Room. _I don't discern a difference with filter on or off. Not a bad album. The album won't make my playlists.

How hard is it to break into Jazz as a guitarist these days? Lage is a child prodigy. He doesn't hit a bad note. His main fault; He's not Wes Montgomery, or John Pizzarelli, or John McLaughlin.

Going forward, I intend to check more music with filter on and off.


----------



## The Hawk (Nov 26, 2022)

Nice review of the Bifrost 2/64 upgrade with a direct comparison to the OG and also OS vs NOS modes (2/64 only)


----------



## decooney (Nov 27, 2022)

Interesting how '_Passion for Sound'_ reviewer guy mentions how the Bifrost 2/64 to his ears is identical tonally to the Yggy. He has been a big fan of Yggy and personally owns one iirc. Also, appreciated his comments about how the change from BF OG to BF 2/64 is also very system dependent. Overall seems like a reasonable reviewer generally offering fair assessments. While I'm not a dedicated headphone listener, I do trust judgements here and with this reviewer b/c of the use of headphones when evaluating!


----------



## MarkF786

I just pulled the trigger on the 2/64 upgrade, though I still suspect it's just a side-grade.

I also bought a Modius to use as a comparison with a good delta-sigma DAC.

Truth be told, I'll likely not hear much of a difference, if any at all!  I couldn't easily hear a different between the Bifrost 1 & 2, or even the balanced DAC card in my Jotenheim.


----------



## DeckHiFi (Nov 27, 2022)

MarkF786 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the 2/64 upgrade, though I still suspect it's just a side-grade.
> 
> I also bought a Modius to use as a comparison with a good delta-sigma DAC.
> 
> Truth be told, I'll likely not hear much of a difference, if any at all!  I couldn't easily hear a different between the Bifrost 1 & 2, or even the balanced DAC card in my Jotenheim.


Cool. Maybe you can provide a double blind test of differences between Modius and Bifrost 2/64 if there are any. : ) Since I have the Modius too and really love my setup right now. But I never know how far the subjective stuff goes in reality. Recently, I have gone with products that are loved by the subjective and objective crowds and it's working out well. If the Bifrost actually matters over the Modius - then that would be a game changer.


----------



## theveterans

DeckHiFi said:


> Cool. Maybe you can provide a double blind test of differences between Modius and Bifrost 2/64 if there are any. : ) Since I have the Modius too and really love my setup right now. But I never know how far the subjective stuff goes in reality. Recently, I have gone with products that are loved by the subjective and objective crowds and it's working out well. If the Bifrost actually matters over the Modius - then that would be a game changer.



I haven't heard the Modius E, but the Modius AKM is definitely noticeably a step back than the Bifrost 2 especially in imaging and presentation


----------



## Luckyleo

MarkF786 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on the 2/64 upgrade, though I still suspect it's just a side-grade.
> 
> I also bought a Modius to use as a comparison with a good delta-sigma DAC.
> 
> Truth be told, I'll likely not hear much of a difference, if any at all!  I couldn't easily hear a different between the Bifrost 1 & 2, or even the balanced DAC card in my Jotenheim.


Congrats!  Let us know your thoughts.  For me personally, the upgrade was in fact a major upgrade. No sideways here.  Of course, that’s me!  What say you?

Leo


----------



## ssmith3046

theveterans said:


> I haven't heard the Modius E, but the Modius AKM is definitely noticeably a step back than the Bifrost 2 especially in imaging and presentation


I had a Modi 3E and sold it, didn't care for it. The Modius AK4493 was a big step up from the Modi 3+ in my opinion. The Modi multibit is still my favorite budget DAC from Schiit.


----------



## AngryTank

Sorry to ask, but if I purchase a New Bifröst from Schiit does it come with the 2/64 already installed?


----------



## brooksgraham

AngryTank said:


> Sorry to ask, but if I purchase a New Bifröst from Schiit does it come with the 2/64 already installed?


Yes.

However, if there are closeouts on sale, they may be of the OG Bifrost 2 variety and would need the $300 upgrade to bring them up to current spec.


----------



## AngryTank

brooksgraham said:


> Yes.
> 
> However, if there are closeouts on sale, they may be of the OG Bifrost 2 variety and would need the $300 upgrade to bring them up to current spec.


Alright thank you!


----------



## AngryTank

Very curious to try the new 2/64, I loved the Bifröst 2 but couldn’t afford to keep last year.


----------



## Ripper2860

May this year be better to you and your audio endeavors.


----------



## decooney

brooksgraham said:


> Yes.
> 
> However, if there are closeouts on sale, they may be of the OG Bifrost 2 variety and would need the $300 upgrade to bring them up to current spec.



On the main Schiit site as of 11/28/22, currently seeing only new Bifrost 2/64 listed, and one B-Stock, Black, 230VAC. 

When I bought my BF 2/64 over a month ago, do not recall seeing any OG versions still listed for sale.


----------



## AngryTank

Ripper2860 said:


> May this year be better to you and your audio endeavors.


Thanks, you know being able to work and go to college while at home makes a big difference. No $$$ going to rent every month for what I would consider one of the worst living conditions ever. Glad to be getting my favorite dac back with some upgrades.


----------



## DataTutashxia

Got my BF 2/64 delivered, just in time before weekend... Just to open the box and find no power cord.
Best case scenario I'll have to wait for a week or two to get the missing one delivered (international shipment...).

Stupid question - will any physically compatible one do? E.g. one from a laptop.


----------



## decooney (Dec 3, 2022)

DataTutashxia said:


> Got my BF 2/64 delivered, just in time before weekend... Just to open the box and find no power cord.
> Best case scenario I'll have to wait for a week or two to get the missing one delivered (international shipment...).
> 
> Stupid question - will any physically compatible one do? E.g. one from a laptop.



EDIT - CORRECTION 
They don't come with one. Mine did not. For now, you can go to a medical supply store for a medical grade chord if you don't already have one in mind from a speciality audio outlet as one idea.

Update:  I stand corrected. Went out in the garage, took out my box, looked under the the foam and plastic and there it was, a small gauge power cord, tightly wrapped in the bottom of the box. I use my own power cables, and apparently overlooked it and left it in the box I guess where it will stay. Apologize for any confusion. Mine came with a power chord!


----------



## Daniel Johnston

DataTutashxia said:


> Got my BF 2/64 delivered, just in time before weekend... Just to open the box and find no power cord.
> Best case scenario I'll have to wait for a week or two to get the missing one delivered (international shipment...).
> 
> Stupid question - will any physically compatible one do? E.g. one from a laptop.


Any grounded 3 prong cord will do. 

Jason makes it a point to not use fancy audiophile cords on Schiit products.


----------



## PopZeus

Finally replacing my living room DAC with a BF2/64. Initially I was looking at some recent discrete R-2R DACs, but I need a real workhouse in the entertainment center since it will be handling duties for any and all digital audio, and almost all of the worthy R2R DACs are true purist pieces. 

While the BF2/64 might not be as tubey as other discrete R2R topologies, the dynamic, clear, and smooth sound of the BF2/64 should suit my current 2-channel setup better than my current DAC. The remote is just a bonus for couch listening.


----------



## The Hawk (Dec 2, 2022)

decooney said:


> They don't come with one. Mine did not.  Keeps price down and people are particular.  For now, you can go to a medical supply store for a medical grade chord if you don't already have one in mind from a speciality audio outlet as one idea.


It’s supposed to have a power cord included. I bought one back in September and it was included.
All Schiit products are supposed to be shipped with a means to connect it to power (power cord, wall wart or USB w/adapter) The only cables that are never included are interconnects.


----------



## Luckyleo

The Hawk said:


> It’s supposed to have a power cable included. I bought one back in September and it was included


Of course!  What manufacturer would send you a dac, or an amp, dap, or any other gear without a cord?  I have a number of Schiity products and ALL of them came with an electronic cord.   

Leo


----------



## Neweymatt

Luckyleo said:


> Of course!  What manufacturer would send you a dac, or an amp, dap, or any other gear without a cord?  I have a number of Schiity products and ALL of them came with an electronic cord.
> 
> Leo


Yeh, this is why "Plug Type" is an option when selecting one of their pieces of schiit.


----------



## decooney (Dec 3, 2022)

Update: I was wrong, EDIT to my post above. Went out in the garage, pulled the box and checked.  Mine DID in fact come with a small gauge power chord neatly tucked in the side-bottom of the box under the foam and plastic. Apparently I simply overlooked it choosing not to use it when I first opened the box and left it there. I stand corrected. Apologize for any confusion. Thx.


----------



## theeclone

decooney said:


> power chord


🎸🤟😉


----------



## twigfarm

PopZeus said:


> Finally replacing my living room DAC with a BF2/64. Initially I was looking at some recent discrete R-2R DACs, but I need a real workhouse in the entertainment center since it will be handling duties for any and all digital audio, and almost all of the worthy R2R DACs are true purist pieces.
> 
> While the BF2/64 might not be as tubey as other discrete R2R topologies, the dynamic, clear, and smooth sound of the BF2/64 should suit my current 2-channel setup better than my current DAC. The remote is just a bonus for couch listening.


In the 2 years I've owned my BF2 it's proven to be absolutely bulletproof - and it sounds great (especially in NOS mode - in my modest system).  Should be perfect & will serve you well in your application.


----------



## decooney

twigfarm said:


> In the 2 years I've owned my BF2 it's proven to be absolutely bulletproof - and it sounds great (especially in NOS mode - in my modest system).  Should be perfect & will serve you well in your application.



@twigfarm Thanks for sharing these facts too - *bullentproof*ness is helpful to know.  I'm curious in your case to know if you are one of the consumers who leaves your unit on all of the time or turns it on/off for use periods primarily.  I've decided to just turn mine on the night before the next day I plan to listen, and before listening weekends and such in my speaker system setup. Hoping it will last ok with on/off cycles instead. I've turned my other tube DAC units on/off before use, and never any problems. Hoping the same longevity for the piece of Schiit.


----------



## twigfarm (Dec 3, 2022)

decooney said:


> @twigfarm Thanks for sharing these facts too - *bullentproof*ness is helpful to know.  I'm curious in your case to know if you are one of the consumers who leaves your unit on all of the time or turns it on/off for use periods primarily.  I've decided to just turn mine on the night before the next day I plan to listen, and before listening weekends and such in my speaker system setup. Hoping it will last ok with on/off cycles instead. I've turned my other tube DAC units on/off before use, and never any problems. Hoping the same longevity for the piece of Schiit.


Although there is a lot to be said for keeping these things on 24/7 to sound their best, I found that once the Bifrost (and any other component for that matter) is fully "broken in", it usually starts sounding it's best 45-60 minutes after a cold start.  We have relatively flakey power where we live so rather than risk having anything happen during the night, I turn off the system at bedtime and turn on the pieces that may get listened to in the morning.  During the break-in period I would play music through the component all day (CD on repeat) and, again, shut down for the night.

Dave


----------



## decooney (Dec 3, 2022)

@twigfarm Thanks Dave. Same as you, even with power protection I don't trust local power either. I do shut mine off if I don't think I'll be listening for a few days.

-----------

Flipside Update:  Seems there may be something to this notion (widespread recommendation) by many here on head-fi.org about powering this BF 2/64 up long before listening. I've been trying the 1hr power-on sessions as you are now as a test. THEN this this week, and last few days decided to leave my DAC on for *12-24 hours *before listening sessions. Last night left the BF 2/64 powered on for at least 12hrs. Came back to listen, fired up my tube preamp and mono tube amps fairly cold and started listening at 1hr.  Wow. Now the sound is smoother, *more textured,* no edge or etch, just simply smoother and more analog sounding.  

Thought I read something to do with the TI chips around all of this needing 24hrs. Becoming a true believer of this notion. Gonna try 24hrs now. All I can say is it's just smoother right now at 13-14hrs dac power-on pre-warming. I can also see why some want to leave it on. Very nice. A pleasant surprise.


----------



## valkyrieorion

On the fence with getting a new DAC. I hvae a SMSL AO200 amp for speakers and when I purchased many reviews said the DAC built in was terrible. Playing it I have no problems  with how it sounds compared  to some older amps I have with ESS 9018 chips. I am torn on getting the matching SMSL do200 or the BF2 2/64 (or a used one but none in Canadaa right now). I'd love to get a Ragnarok 2 also but all the normal things right now are making me  wait a year or 2 to get one.


----------



## JerseyD

PopZeus said:


> Finally replacing my living room DAC with a BF2/64. Initially I was looking at some recent discrete R-2R DACs, but I need a real workhouse in the entertainment center since it will be handling duties for any and all digital audio, and almost all of the worthy R2R DACs are true purist pieces.
> 
> While the BF2/64 might not be as tubey as other discrete R2R topologies, the dynamic, clear, and smooth sound of the BF2/64 should suit my current 2-channel setup better than my current DAC. The remote is just a bonus for couch listening.


What do you mean by “true purist pieces” and “discreet r2r” as opposed to the BF2/64?  (I’m late to the r2r party I think, but do have an OG Bifrost 1 with MB upgrade. Where does that unit sit in the hierarchy?)


----------



## PopZeus (Dec 4, 2022)

JerseyD said:


> What do you mean by “true purist pieces” and “discreet r2r” as opposed to the BF2/64?  (I’m late to the r2r party I think, but do have an OG Bifrost 1 with MB upgrade. Where does that unit sit in the hierarchy?)


Discrete R-2R is just how the ladder is implemented. Schiit uses medical-grade resistors on a chip found in hospital equipment to decode audio in all their MB DACS, but most of the other DAC makers have opted for custom-built ladder arrays, laid out directly on the motherboard. The only other Schiit MB DAC I've heard was the original Mimby, which was fine but didn't sound much better than a very solid DS chip DAC at the time. With discrete implementations, there is a lot more options for the DAC maker to tailor the sound how they see fit. Not sure how the BF1 stacks up to the Mimby or BF2.

As far as the idea of "purist piece" goes, companies like Denafrips for example, tend to optimize all the electronics around the audio quality. Which is great, if you don't need the DAC to sync with video, or want to change inputs via remote. Adding features like that can sometimes hinder the primary goal of audio quality or drive up costs. In the case of the Schiit, (who tend to march to the beat of their own drum) and the BF2, I can only assume those compromises didn't impact the sound too negatively.


----------



## Wolfhawk46

valkyrieorion said:


> On the fence with getting a new DAC. I hvae a SMSL AO200 amp for speakers and when I purchased many reviews said the DAC built in was terrible. Playing it I have no problems  with how it sounds compared  to some older amps I have with ESS 9018 chips. I am torn on getting the matching SMSL do200 or the BF2 2/64 (or a used one but none in Canadaa right now). I'd love to get a Ragnarok 2 also but all the normal things right now are making me  wait a year or 2 to get one.


I really enjoy my BF 2/64 with a Jot 2 amp. I haven't tried SMSL, but they do have reliability issues recorded. The only other option I'd go with is the Burson Conductor 3x performance right now. Best of luck with your decision!


----------



## Wolfhawk46

twigfarm said:


> Although there is a lot to be said for keeping these things on 24/7 to sound their best, I found that once the Bifrost (and any other component for that matter) is fully "broken in", it usually starts sounding it's best 45-60 minutes after a cold start.  We have relatively flakey power where we live so rather than risk having anything happen during the night, I turn off the system at bedtime and turn on the pieces that may get listened to in the morning.  During the break-in period I would play music through the component all day (CD on repeat) and, again, shut down for the night.
> 
> Dave


That's interesting. I haven't noticed a difference between having my BF 2/64 and Jot 2 on all night or turning it on cold start. *shrug*


----------



## twigfarm

Wolfhawk46 said:


> That's interesting. I haven't noticed a difference between having my BF 2/64 and Jot 2 on all night or turning it on cold start. *shrug*


Maybe not fully broken-in? How long have you had the pieces / How many hours on them, especially the 2/64?


----------



## decooney

> _@Wolfhawk46 "(and any other component for that matter)"_



My findings persist in a different way for whatever reasons:  

The BF 2/64 R2R chip ladder DAC is not like my other dacs or other components win my system - particularly when it comes to warmup and sounding its best. 

My other R2R tube ladder dac and prior Delta Sigma Dacs take only about 45-60m max, all good, no changes after 60m. 

BF 2/64, ime:

-At 45-60m, the BF 2/64 sounds nice, not at its best. 

-At 4-6hrs, a little better, not by a lot. Slightly, maybe. 

-At 12-24 hours leaving the dac on, then playing it with my amps only warmed up 1hr, 
I'm hearing a notable change in smoothness, presentation, level of engagement is better. 
I do tend to run mine more in NOS mode, and not sure if that matters vs. MCB mode either. 

Why, who knows?

Someone commented earlier about these Texas Instruments chips needing a lot longer to stabilize during a cold>warmup up cycle. I won't attempt to begin to explain it or why, just recall this comment here on this forum. 
Also curious to know if maybe this scenario changes again after someone has owned and played the BF 2/64 for six to twelve months or more. Mine definitely sounds better after the first 30-45 days in any case. Thanks for sharing your experiences as we help narrow this down more.


----------



## Wolfhawk46

twigfarm said:


> Maybe not fully broken-in? How long have you had the pieces / How many hours on them, especially the 2/64?


A couple months, over 100 hours I expect - I haven't kept track. I don't think it's really possible to compare something 24 hours a part though. It'd be like weighing yourself in the morning versus the evening - different factors will have impacted your body which could change how you perceived the sound. There's also the placebo effect as well. My takeaway is that it sounds good, no matter how long it's been on, but it's not noticeable enough for me to focus on leaving it on all day (gets pretty hot)


----------



## decooney

> @Wolfhawk46 _"I don't think it's really possible to compare something 24 hours a part though."_



If you ever get a chance to listen a dead-cold high quality ClassA solid state amplifier with mondo transformers, try listening at 1hr and listening again at 24-48hrs.  

Seems like most anyone with regular hearing can tell a difference.  For some with golden ears, the difference can be quite spectacular. When you hear it, you'll know it.  

After a long work-week (for those of us still working) with certain gear - will fire up the rig on Thur or Fri and listen on/off through the entire weekend.  Ask any old-timer


----------



## MarkF786

PopZeus said:


> Discrete R-2R is just how the ladder is implemented. Schiit uses medical-grade resistors on a chip found in hospital equipment to decode audio in all their MB DACS, but most of the other DAC makers have opted for custom-built ladder arrays, laid out directly on the motherboard.


Coming from an electrical engineering background, my gut feel is that Schiit's approach is better than the discrete resistors - though ultimately, it would come down to understanding the tolerance of the components in each.  No doubt though, the discrete resistors look cool.


----------



## theeclone

MarkF786 said:


> Coming from an electrical engineering background, my gut feel is that Schiit's approach is better than the discrete resistors - though ultimately, it would come down to understanding the tolerance of the components in each.  No doubt though, the discrete resistors look cool.


That's my hunch too. Never heard a completely discrete r2r, but when you're dealing with over a million discrete voltages, I have to think the chip route would be more accurate.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

theeclone said:


> That's my hunch too. Never heard a completely discrete r2r, but when you're dealing with over a million discrete voltages, I have to think the chip route would be more accurate.


Cayin RU6 a fairly inexpensive way to experience the discrete R2R sound. It’s a curious little dongle to be sure. 

The quality control to ensure the resistor ladder precision is daunting. I agree that a chip solution best option. Inexpensive and accurate are not words used in good discrete R2R implementations.


----------



## theeclone

Daniel Johnston said:


> Cayin RU6 a fairly inexpensive way to experience the discrete R2R sound. It’s a curious little dongle to be sure.
> 
> The quality control to ensure the resistor ladder precision is daunting. I agree that a chip solution best option. Inexpensive and accurate are not words used in good discrete R2R implementations.


Yeah I've been really curious about that thing! May have to buy myself an xmas present.


----------



## schneller

My BF 2/64 arrived today. I also bought a used Gungnir MB Unison A2 from 2021 for $900 and I have a gen 1 Modi Multibit. I'm looking forward to comparing all three. In hindsight, had I known about the Black Friday deals, I probably would have just gotten the Yggdrasil LIM for $1799. Oh well.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

schneller said:


> My BF 2/64 arrived today. I also bought a used Gungnir MB Unison A2 from 2021 for $900 and I have a gen 1 Modi Multibit. I'm looking forward to comparing all three. In hindsight, had I known about the Black Friday deals, I probably would have just gotten the Yggdrasil LIM for $1799. Oh well.


I ordered the 2/64 upgrade and it arrived the week before Black Friday. I sprung for the Yggy OG. It’s warming up now. Moved BF 2/64 to HT setup.


----------



## schneller

Daniel Johnston said:


> I ordered the 2/64 upgrade and it arrived the week before Black Friday. I sprung for the Yggy OG. It’s warming up now. Moved BF 2/64 to HT setup.



Have you/will you compare the two?


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Has anyone regretted doing the BF2/64 upgrade and switched back to their OG card? I have such good synergy in my current setup with the OG BF2 that I hesitate to change anything. I know, I know, I could always switch back to the OG card if I didn’t like the change, but I’m just trying to convince myself to not spend another $300, haha.


----------



## Neweymatt

Daniel Johnston said:


> Cayin RU6 a fairly inexpensive way to experience the discrete R2R sound. It’s a curious little dongle to be sure.
> 
> The quality control to ensure the resistor ladder precision is daunting. I agree that a chip solution best option. Inexpensive and accurate are not words used in good discrete R2R implementations.


i haven’t heard the RU6, as a dongle is not my preference for a mobile solution, however I have been very impressed with the RS6 from Cayin’s sister HiBy.  I recall on first hearing it with the IER-Z1R it seemed that they’d shrunk the Bf2/Jot2 down into something I could fit in my pocket.  That rich organic texture that i love from the Bf2 is all there in the RS6, along with a lot of controls to tweak the filters to suit your preferences.

I’ll probably still look for quality delta sigma implementations, perhaps for a specific synergy with a headphone or IEM, but my first choice for any DAC in the future will always be r2r or multibit.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

schneller said:


> Have you/will you compare the two?


Yes. 
I’m waiting for the Jot 2 to arrive. 

The tube amp I have in the HT and the FV in my office setup have strong sonic characteristics. It would be impossible to directly compare.


----------



## DataTutashxia

So I've done a few listening sessions with BF 2/64 now (one with ~3h  warmup, another with ~20h and another after a few days).
Old chain: USB -> Modi MB -> Monoprice THX 887-> Meze Copper cable (XLR) -> Meze Empyrean.
New chain: USB -> BF 2/64 (XLR) -> (XLR) Monoprice THX 887-> Meze Copper cable (XLR) -> Meze Empyrean.
I wasn't A/B-ing the setups, the impressions are based on regular listening experience with the old setup. Also note the RCA->XLR change in DAC->AMP connection, some of the impressions could be caused by this + level matching trouble, but I'm too lazy to test the extent.

Impressions:
BF2/64 is definitely more detailed. The sound is somewhat thinner in bass/low mid but more precise. The bass hits hard though. Drums also benefit from better detail. Somehow it felt like the difference between voices/tones is more pronounced. Soundstage is bigger, instrument placing feels significantly better. And a little more sparkle up top.
Makes me think the fullness of Modi MB is some extra distortion.

Overall, it's a significant upgrade, bigger than I expected tbh.


----------



## theeclone

DataTutashxia said:


> Overall, it's a significant upgrade, bigger than I expected tbh.


Same.


----------



## decooney

@DataTutashxia will be interested in a follow-up update with the BF 2/64 after you've had it playing and well settled in after a few weeks.


----------



## MacMan31

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Has anyone regretted doing the BF2/64 upgrade and switched back to their OG card? I have such good synergy in my current setup with the OG BF2 that I hesitate to change anything. I know, I know, I could always switch back to the OG card if I didn’t like the change, but I’m just trying to convince myself to not spend another $300, haha.



I also want to know this. I'm still debating on the 2/64 card. I still have a high desire for the Ares II so I may want to put the money towards that instead.


----------



## Ableza

schneller said:


> Have you/will you compare the two?


I own one of the original Yggdrasils that has been updated to Analog 2 and Unison, so equivalent to the OG version now being sold.  This past weekend I pulled the Bifrost 2/64 into my office on a whim and compared it to the Yggdrasil in my headphone setup (see my sig line.)  While the Bifrost sounded good, I preferred the warmth and dynamic punch of the Yggdrasil on my headphones, so the BF2/64 went back to the living room where I like the sound.  YMMV, of course.


----------



## schneller

Ableza said:


> I own one of the original Yggdrasils that has been updated to Analog 2 and Unison, so equivalent to the OG version now being sold.  This past weekend I pulled the Bifrost 2/64 into my office on a whim and compared it to the Yggdrasil in my headphone setup (see my sig line.)  While the Bifrost sounded good, I preferred the warmth and dynamic punch of the Yggdrasil on my headphones, so the BF2/64 went back to the living room where I like the sound.  YMMV, of course.


Thanks for replying. 

I have a Modi Multibit Gen 1, Gungnir Multibit A2 Unison from 2020, and a BF 2/64 here to compare on my stereo setup. Looking forward to the comparison


----------



## twigfarm (Dec 9, 2022)

schneller said:


> Thanks for replying.
> 
> I have a Modi Multibit Gen 1, Gungnir Multibit A2 Unison from 2020, and a BF 2/64 here to compare on my stereo setup. Looking forward to the comparison


Me too!


----------



## twigfarm (Dec 9, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> I also want to know this. I'm still debating on the 2/64 card. I still have a high desire for the Ares II so I may want to put the money towards that instead.


The Ares II (now called the Enyo) is a *very* good sounding DAC.  I owned one briefly this past summer. Very different from the Bifrost 2.  Too bad the NOS firmware update wasn't yet available for the BF2 when I had the Ares II here.  It would have been a little more interesting comparison running the BF in NOS mode.  Unfortunately the Ares didn't work out in my system and had to go back. Otherwise it would have stayed, ultimately replacing the BF2.


----------



## decooney (Dec 9, 2022)

> _@twigfarm Too bad the NOS firmware update wasn't yet available for the BF2 when I had the Ares II here._



Thanks for sharing this thought, seems like there are only a few of us digging the NOS mode in the BF 2/64 - including myself,@theveterans and maybe just a few others. Seems like a majority prefer the MCB filter more. Some prior conversation about this was leaning towards the thought of those running tube preamps might like NOS more.

After my recently new BF 2/64 was well past 30-45 days of use I'd flip back and forth and noticed over time I started to enjoy MCB a little more than when the dac was new, but have to say was listening with NOS again last week and it sounds more musical and less boomy and less analytical on my system for whatever synergy or other reasons @theveterans has been able to explain some ideas as to why. If BF 2/64 did not offer NOS mode, I would have passed on it. My other dacs are NOS and perhaps I'm simply more use to the type of sound and presentation it offers in a very natural way, or within my own system. Works well in my setup in any case.


----------



## MacMan31

twigfarm said:


> The Ares II (now called the Enyo) is a *very* good sounding DAC.  I owned one briefly this past summer. Very different from the Bifrost 2.  Too bad the NOS firmware update wasn't yet available for the BF2 when I had the Ares II here.  It would have been a little more interesting comparison running the BF in NOS mode.  Unfortunately the Ares didn't work out in my system and had to go back. Otherwise it would have stayed, ultimately replacing the BF2.



Interesting. So the previous Ares II (now Enyo) is still available. But now there's the Ares 12th.


----------



## decooney

Related power supply upgrade, if interested:  

This week for streamed content, I was able to squeak out a little more of the Bifrost 2/64 by replacing the generic wall wart power supply on my streamer feeding it. While I ignored it prior as I already use a Richard Gray power conditioner in my main system, a few buddies twisted my arm to do it and get rid of that generic wall wart - after putting it off too long.  Finally did it.  Went with one of the new iPower Elite units from iFi audio. Has <1uV noise floor, a special circuit, with noise cancelation. It's quieter than a linear power supply. *Battery level quiet.*  I had this new iPower plugged in for 3 days, and the BF 2/64 and streamer had been powered on for 24hrs. Started listening past two days.

They were right, and in their words _"should have done this a long time ago"_. I feel like this helped to bring the outcome of the BF 2/64 to an even higher level by feeding it device signals with the least amount of noise possible. Wow.  The background is super quiet, like truly dark.  Not one bit of digital grain, none, gone, ultra smooth.  This is for the smaller low volt 5-12 volt 1-4ma type of streamers that use a wall wart instead of larger form factor streamer with IEC plug and internal PS. Impressed.  Really liking what is coming out of the BF 2/64 even more now, fwiw, to anyone considering doing the same. Totally worth doing.


----------



## ThatStKildaGuy

Here's an idea. It would be interesting if Schiit could offer a second upgrade path to the Bitfrost 2.
How about adding an I2S module within the USB slot to take on the Denafrips 12th?


----------



## twigfarm (Dec 10, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> Interesting. So the previous Ares II (now Enyo) is still available. But now there's the Ares 12th.


Yep!


----------



## twigfarm

decooney said:


> Thanks for sharing this thought, seems like there are only a few of us digging the NOS mode in the BF 2/64 - including myself,@theveterans and maybe just a few others. Seems like a majority prefer the MCB filter more.


Keep in mind I'm using a BF2 with the dual Analog Devices D/A converters.  The BF2/64 uses quad Texas Instruments converters.  Maybe the sound of the BF2 with the AD converters inherently lends itself better to being run in NOS mode, more than the 2/64 with the TI converters? I don't know.

What I DO know is the firmware update with the added ability to run the BF2 in NOS mode is a game-changer for this little DAC - making it's sound more versatile for current users AND a more interesting / intriguing prospect to new customers.  Schiit should have made this update available for the BF2 A LONG time ago.  Like I said a while back, once I listened in NOS I never went back.

If I was the owner of a BF2 (which I am) and was on the fence about doing the board replacement (which I was/am), I would update the firmware immediately & check it out running in NOS mode for a while.


----------



## JerseyD

twigfarm said:


> The Ares II (now called the Enyo) is a *very* good sounding DAC.  I owned one briefly this past summer. Very different from the Bifrost 2.  Too bad the NOS firmware update wasn't yet available for the BF2 when I had the Ares II here.  It would have been a little more interesting comparison running the BF in NOS mode.  Unfortunately the Ares didn't work out in my system and had to go back. Otherwise it would have stayed, ultimately replacing the BF2.


What about the Ares made it “not work out” in your system (despite it being “very good sounding”)?  Thanks


----------



## JohnnyOps

twigfarm said:


> If I was the owner of a BF2 (which I am) and was on the fence about doing the board replacement (which I was/am), I would update the firmware immediately & check it out running in NOS mode for a while.


Wait, if I have an OG BF2, I can get the NOS update without doing the 2/64 card upgrade?  How / where do I find instructions?


----------



## Hotdoggn

JohnnyOps said:


> Wait, if I have an OG BF2, I can get the NOS update without doing the 2/64 card upgrade?  How / where do I find instructions?


You can find the info here: https://www.schiit.com/firmware


----------



## JohnnyOps

Hotdoggn said:


> You can find the info here: https://www.schiit.com/firmware


Thank you. For some reason I had assumed 100% incorrectly that NOS only came with the 2/64 upgrade. Tone likely saved me some real cash. Will  update firmware and report back!


----------



## twigfarm

JerseyD said:


> What about the Ares made it “not work out” in your system (despite it being “very good sounding”)?  Thanks


My sample suffered from the "micro-skipping" problem in my system - discussed here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/denafrips-dacs.897934/page-101

Denafrips ended up buying my entire front-end, including cables, to help them diagnose the problem.  I don't think they've yet gotten to the bottom of the problem or they're just avoiding the issue.


----------



## Luckyleo

JohnnyOps said:


> Thank you. For some reason I had assumed 100% incorrectly that NOS only came with the 2/64 upgrade. Tone likely saved me some real cash. Will  update firmware and report back!


Glad you can save some $$ (Big).  Please let us know your thoughts.

Leo


----------



## decooney (Dec 10, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> Keep in mind I'm using a BF2 with the dual Analog Devices D/A converters.  The BF2/64 uses quad Texas Instruments converters.



Ah, thought you did the card upgrade to the 2/64, good to know.  Yes, would agree non-oversampling (NOS) mode might not sound the same with two completely different dac designs and processor chip architectures.  One of the reasons I bought this new dac was also curiosity about the  how the new TI quad chips might perform.

In addition, to compare to another R2R NOS tube ladder dac I own at 1.5x the price, and to another industry praised dac that retailed at close to 3x the price new that I sent back not liking it after a 2-week demo.

BF 2/64 also became interesting seeing Jason Stoddard's feedback about his own comparisons to Yggy and what he claims he uses on his desk now. The ability to easily switch between the Mega Combo Burrito filter and NOS mode was also compelling to me.  What I did not expect was to like NOS mode more than MCB filer mode in my system. I use it with a 6SN7 tube preamp, two mono tube amps, and my own MTM Air Motion speaker design - not in a headphone use situation.


----------



## twigfarm

decooney said:


> - not in a headphone use situation.


Nor do I (see signature below).


----------



## JerseyD

twigfarm said:


> Nor do I (see signature below).


Hey, who let you guys in here?!? 😄


----------



## decooney

JerseyD said:


> Hey, who let you guys in here?!? 😄



Heheh, someone once told me you guys truly enjoy listening and describing how things sound in a way the rest of us can relate to and reasonably understand.   

While its not quite the same with a room involved for what some here refer to as "speaker listeners", the insight here is truly appreciated.  Thanks to all, Happy Holidays!


----------



## ThatStKildaGuy (Dec 12, 2022)

Has anyone considered changing from their Bitfrost 2 to the new Ares 12th because of the addition of I2S to the Denafrips?
I ask because the new Mercury V2 has great specs and I only stream music via Qobuz.


----------



## velemar1

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Has anyone regretted doing the BF2/64 upgrade and switched back to their OG card? I have such good synergy in my current setup with the OG BF2 that I hesitate to change anything. I know, I know, I could always switch back to the OG card if I didn’t like the change, but I’m just trying to convince myself to not spend another $300, haha.


Me


----------



## YungOmbat

ColtMrFire said:


> Definitely interested in hearing the Yggy comparison when you have time.


definitely looking for a comparison


----------



## twigfarm

decooney said:


> Thanks to all, Happy Holidays!


And a Happy Holiday Season to you, too!


----------



## twigfarm (Dec 12, 2022)

ckhirnigs113 said:


> Has anyone regretted doing the BF2/64 upgrade and switched back to their OG card? I have such good synergy in my current setup with the OG BF2 that I hesitate to change anything. I know, I know, I could always switch back to the OG card if I didn’t like the change, but I’m just trying to convince myself to not spend another $300, haha.


If you haven't bought the board already and _haven't_ updated the firmware, like I said above, I would do the firmware update first and live with it in NOS mode for a while and see if that alone doesn't make what you already have in the BF2 *more better. * Maybe we can call the BF2 with the NOS update the Bifrost 2.1?  Any other catchy suggestions?

Personally I'd trust a DAC utilizing the Analog Devices D/A chips more as something I could live with over the long run rather than one utilizing the TI chips, no mater how many they use, especially one done by a talented designer.  AD has always made some of my favorite sounding D/A converters.  Anyone remember the AD1955?  Absolutely great converter.


----------



## MarkF786

When upgrading your BF2 to 2/64 don't forget to save your original card for when everyone realizes the old board was better!  Or to sell it to newer owners who want to try the OG.

It's hard to say I hear much of a difference since I couldn't directly compare the two, but the 2/64 sounds good.


----------



## morpheus69

MarkF786 said:


> When upgrading your BF2 to 2/64 don't forget to save your original card for when everyone realizes the old board was better!  Or to sell it to newer owners who want to try the OG.
> 
> It's hard to say I hear much of a difference since I couldn't directly compare the two, but the 2/64 sounds good.



More depth and height and extension on both ends, deeper bass and some nice treble activity.


----------



## wolfstar76

Question for you:

I noticed a B stock BF 2/64 with only $20 off MSRP and it is quickly gone. Why would someone want to save $20 for a B-stock with MRSP of $799?


----------



## Luckyleo

wolfstar76 said:


> Question for you:
> 
> I noticed a B stock BF 2/64 with only $20 off MSRP and it is quickly gone. Why would someone want to save $20 for a B-stock with MRSP of $799?


$20???  You also get the new unit warranty?  I guess it depends on how much one values $20 in your pocket.   

Leo


----------



## mjstealey

wolfstar76 said:


> Question for you:
> 
> I noticed a B stock BF 2/64 with only $20 off MSRP and it is quickly gone. Why would someone want to save $20 for a B-stock with MRSP of $799?



That one was a silver BF 2/64 for $769 (or $759 ... one of those two prices), so it was at least $50 off normal silver price (black is $799, silver is $829)
$50 off is enough to live with a scuff or two I'd think


----------



## Daniel Johnston

wolfstar76 said:


> Question for you:
> 
> I noticed a B stock BF 2/64 with only $20 off MSRP and it is quickly gone. Why would someone want to save $20 for a B-stock with MRSP of $799?


Pays for shipping. 😁

I like buying demo/B stock. Albeit with a discount more than 6%.


----------



## automojo

Ended up with GL KT77 for power tubes. The PL 12AU7''s are musical and great rhythm-not the most detailed-tried some Tung Sol-better-but a bit to analytical-they improved after 7 days-I'm sure they need more break-in. They me a better mix when I recap the Infinity's.
The Prolouge 5 sounds great as-is. It may also benefit from a set of well broken in Tungsol's.
I also picked 2 pair of Shunguang 12AU7's=as I think the older PL tubes where maid by them.
Both Prologue 4 and 5 are damn good sounding out of the box, and I could easily settle for that.
Really don't find the need to mess with my BF2-even the NOS mode (as mentioned I have a Project Dac Box FL (NOS), if need be. Frankly it makes it too soft and lacking dynamics many times-but sometimes it's a perfect fit.
The advantage of the Prologues is they seem to maximize everything played through them.
Stereophile seem to draw the same conclusion with the Prologue Premium.
A reference for testing all types of speakers.
You left with just enjoying the music, not the sound/speakers/equipment.
Kind of relief in many ways-I kick myself for not exploring the tube amp route years ago-as I was well familiar with the sound years ago.
I think if I went the Cit V route it would takes major cash to get them as resolving as these modern Prologues.


----------



## TheFrator

Anyone have issues with noise when connecting to the 2/64 via USB? The past few days I start to get intermittent audio crackles and pops that are about 12-15 dB less than the music playing. It sounds very similar to surface noise you might get from a record. It sometimes resolves itself when I restart my whole computer (the source feeding the BF2/64). I switched to using optical earlier today and haven't experienced any noise since.


----------



## automojo

TheFrator said:


> Anyone have issues with noise when connecting to the 2/64 via USB? The past few days I start to get intermittent audio crackles and pops that are about 12-15 dB less than the music playing. It sounds very similar to surface noise you might get from a record. It sometimes resolves itself when I restart my whole computer (the source feeding the BF2/64). I switched to using optical earlier today and haven't experienced any noise since.


Did you try a different USB cable?


----------



## mekap

https://www.amazon.com/WIREWORLD-Ch...-4fdb6d51cad1&pf_rd_p=ec3cee7c-&tag=headfi-20


----------



## decooney (Dec 18, 2022)

> @automojo ..._"You are left with just enjoying the music, not the sound/speakers/equipment. Kind of relief in many ways-I kick myself for not exploring the tube amp route years ago-as I was well familiar with the sound years ago."_




While my last class A/AB solid state amp was in the shop for repair six years ago through a local colleague, on loan he let me borrow his self-built and heavily customized "FrankenDyna" loaner amp (as he named it) which had multiple EL84 power tubes in it.  It showed me more than I could have ever imagined about what was possible with my own custom built speakers. More importantly what I'd been missing out on in my own rig for too many years.  The next steps for an all-tube system came about swiftly. It took a bit to settle on the right tube preamp and three iterations of different amplifiers and output tubes to get it right for my speakers and expectations.

Congrats on forging ahead with the KT77s and some fine tuning with the au7s.  It's really something to get the point you mention about _"just enjoying the music"_.


----------



## MarkF786

mekap said:


> https://www.amazon.com/WIREWORLD-Ch...-4fdb6d51cad1&pf_rd_p=ec3cee7c-&tag=headfi-20


I'm using the same USB cable, and also have the USB C version for my Modius.

I'm not gonna say I hear any difference, but it's a damn nice cable and not ridiculously priced.


----------



## TheFrator

automojo said:


> Did you try a different USB cable?


I had an Audioquest Cinnamon connected to it but I'll try another one and report back


----------



## automojo

I like Wireworld cables, and have been using the exclusively for the last couple years.
I can hear a difference for sure, particularly in the USB cable Ultraviolet).
 Having said that, I wasn’t commenting on the quality of the cable, just the fact that cables do go bad, (even though it’s not super common these days) no matter who they manufacture quality stuff happens-especially if they’re connected and reconnected numerous times/ etc.


----------



## The Hawk

TheFrator said:


> Anyone have issues with noise when connecting to the 2/64 via USB? The past few days I start to get intermittent audio crackles and pops that are about 12-15 dB less than the music playing. It sounds very similar to surface noise you might get from a record. It sometimes resolves itself when I restart my whole computer (the source feeding the BF2/64). I switched to using optical earlier today and haven't experienced any noise since.


Sounds like a computer issue if it’s resolving itself after a reboot.

Audio issues are not uncommon with USB outputs on computers and can be caused by a multitude of different things. If you Google search “audio crackles and pops usb audio” you’ll bring up lots of info and troubleshooting tricks to help resolve it. As an example, sometimes something as simple as updating a driver for your audio card can fix the problem

Good luck


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 18, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> Anyone have issues with noise when connecting to the 2/64 via USB? The past few days I start to get intermittent audio crackles and pops that are about 12-15 dB less than the music playing. It sounds very similar to surface noise you might get from a record. It sometimes resolves itself when I restart my whole computer (the source feeding the BF2/64). I switched to using optical earlier today and haven't experienced any noise since.


Sound like it could be PC latency issues.  Here are a couple of tools that may help identify if that is the issue...

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/DPC-Latency-Checker.shtml

Here's a util that solved it for me before I rebuilt my Windows computer and no longer needed it (still use it on my media server, however).  They have a FREE version you can try to see if it resolves the issue, and then you can buy a more powerful version with the more expensive running as a service.

https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/

BTW -- the issue was way before my 2/64 upgrade, so it is not a 2/64-related matter.


----------



## TheFrator

Many thanks y'all.

https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/audio-or-sound-popping-on-windows-107-solved/ - I followed the first step on this URL and also disabled fast startup in the power settings of my computer and that appears to have resolved the issue (for now).








Ripper2860 said:


> Sound like it could be PC latency issues. Here are a couple of tools that may help identify if that is the issue...
> 
> https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
> https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/DPC-Latency-Checker.shtml
> ...


I'll download these tools as a precaution in case this issue rears its head again. Thank you very much


----------



## automojo

Sweet!


----------



## Ripper2860 (Dec 18, 2022)

Windows Fast Startup writes much of the OS state to disk at shutdown and then reads it back on power-on to speed-up a cold boot.  Nice in theory, but if you're having issues with the OS, you are not booting a clean OS.  With this enabled and troubleshooting, a RESTART as opposed to SHUTDOWN is preferred as it will completely clear the OS and restart FRESH w/o reading the cached OS state.  You can disable as advised or keep it enabled as I do and just understand that on occasion a RESTART as opposed to SHUTDOWN is what is needed.


----------



## TheFrator

@Ripper2860 - using the LatencyMon tool you linked to, my highest measured latency was 1100 microseconds over a 15 minute (which resulted in audible pops). I updated the BIOS on my computer (MSI X570 Gaming Edge Wifi MOBO) to the latest driver and have had LatencyMon running for the past 10 mins and am having much much lower average and maximum interrupt to process latency- down to 320 microseconds. 

Thanks again for showing me the tool.


----------



## decooney (Dec 18, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> I had an Audioquest Cinnamon connected to it but I'll try another one and report back



@TheFrator Not sure if this helps, and I don't normally pass along info like this, but I have an Audioquest Cinnamon digit-coax sitting here now. I was comparing it to an Analysis Plus Digital Crystal and comparing again against a Cardas Clear Digital coax.  Was floored just how bad the AQ Cinnamon was in comparison.  Really did not expect that much of a gap with a digi-coax. AQ even sources some their better copper via Cardas too. Weird. If the USB Cinnamon is anything like the Digital-coax AQ Cinnamon I have now, try something else for sure. Best of luck.


----------



## TheFrator

decooney said:


> @TheFrator Not sure if this helps, and I don't normally pass along info like this, but I have an Audioquest Cinnamon digit-coax sitting here now. I was comparing it to an Analysis Plus Digital Crystal and comparing again against a Cardas Clear Digital coax.  Was floored just how bad the AQ Cinnamon was in comparison.  Really did not expect that much of a gap with a digi-coax. AQ even sources some their better copper via Cardas too. Weird. If the USB Cinnamon is anything like the Digital-coax AQ Cinnamon I have now, try something else for sure. Best of luck.


thanks for letting me know. I purchased it used for $20 off the classifieds here as a bit of insurance. I'm running another USB-A to B cable at the moment since I've been too lazy to change the cable back to AQ after switching cables during troubleshooting. Given how stiff the AQ is, I would hesitate to recommend it to anyone and definitely not at MSRP.


So far so good and the process latency has remained much lower than it was after 4 hours of measuring. It was at 100 microseconds average before updating BIOS and now at 7.


----------



## carbonF1

decooney said:


> @TheFrator Not sure if this helps, and I don't normally pass along info like this, but I have an Audioquest Cinnamon digit-coax sitting here now. I was comparing it to an Analysis Plus Digital Crystal and comparing again against a Cardas Clear Digital coax.  Was floored just how bad the AQ Cinnamon was in comparison.  Really did not expect that much of a gap with a digi-coax. AQ even sources some their better copper via Cardas too. Weird. If the USB Cinnamon is anything like the Digital-coax AQ Cinnamon I have now, try something else for sure. Best of luck.



Sadly I found the AQ Cinnamon USB a lot like your description, interesting to read the Cinnamon coax didn't play nice with Bifrost 2 either.


----------



## decooney

@carbonF1 Thanks for confirming that on your end. While I have tested more than a few cables I was not expecting this and was puzzled by it some. At first I thought maybe I just had a bad cable or something having owned other AQ cables in the past. This was an older one from 4-5 years ago I had lying around that got rotated out.  Swapped back and forth a few times to check my own hearing.  I've had other AQ cables in the past and nothing I'd say really stood out as a concern. I originally got it from a mainstream source provider brand new. I feel like I need to go buy a Mogami or Belden and compare again. My main system SDIF/Coax is all Cardas or Analysis Plus, fwiw.


----------



## aj_brown_99

I'm thinking of getting a Bifrost to replace my existing Modi Multibit. My rig is Lake People RS-08 → Hifiman Arya V2

I'm wondering which version to get, the 2 or 2/64. The Aryas are neutral-bright, resolving and spacious, and the Lake People amp (which is similar to the Violectric V100 but with balanced out) is "reference neutral". Overall I love the resolution and speed, but find the sound a little bit thin, "digital", and wish there were more weight in the bass and macrodynamics. 

I've read that the Bifrost 2 is thicker, warmer and more mid-bass emphasis, vs. the 2/64 which is a bit brighter and faster. I'm wondering whether the 2 might be a better pairing with my existing setup, or am I over-thinking it?

I think the ideal move is to get a used BF2, then order the 2/64 upgrade card and return it if I prefer the original BF2 sound. But the OG BF2 is damn hard to get your hands on, they seem to sell in a day on classifieds.


----------



## ssmith3046

Maybe a Modi Multibit 2 that's on the way, possibly tomorrow.


----------



## Ripper2860

aj_brown_99 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a Bifrost to replace my existing Modi Multibit. My rig is Lake People RS-08 → Hifiman Arya V2
> 
> I'm wondering which version to get, the 2 or 2/64. The Aryas are neutral-bright, resolving and spacious, and the Lake People amp (which is similar to the Violectric V100 but with balanced out) is "reference neutral". Overall I love the resolution and speed, but find the sound a little bit thin, "digital", and wish there were more weight in the bass and macrodynamics.
> 
> ...



Maybe you can reverse it.  I'm sure there are folks selling the BF2 OG card after upgrading, so try a BF2/64 and buy an OG card on the market.


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## cgb3 (Dec 20, 2022)

decooney said:


> Update: I was wrong, EDIT to my post above. Went out in the garage, pulled the box and checked.  Mine DID in fact come with a small gauge power chord neatly tucked in the side-bottom of the box under the foam and plastic. Apparently I simply overlooked it choosing not to use it when I first opened the box and left it there. I stand corrected. Apologize for any confusion. Thx.


Please find my reply below.


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## cgb3

I always replace my Schiit power cords with at least a 14 AWG cord. I'm running ~10' from my stack to my UPS, but it makes sense for any length. Here's my current choice.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JT0DGEO?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1


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## cgb3

twigfarm said:


> My sample suffered from the "micro-skipping" problem in my system - discussed here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/denafrips-dacs.897934/page-101
> 
> Denafrips ended up buying my entire front-end, including cables, to help them diagnose the problem.  I don't think they've yet gotten to the bottom of the problem or they're just avoiding the issue.


I'm not injecting any political bias here. It does make me wonder why one would choose a Chinese product, when an American made version, of equal or greater value was available?

Love my HifiMan Arya phones, so take my comment with a grain of salt. I will say, I think the Arya's are unique. I buy American whenever possible.


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## twigfarm (Dec 21, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> I'm not injecting any political bias here. ........


Seems like you are to me just based on that statement.

I won't say that being "made in America" wasn't an added bonus that pleased me when I purchased my BF2 & Gungnir but I do appreciate & acknowledge that there are *A LOT* of talented designers & designs all over the world that deserve our attention and support as enthusiasts.


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## cgb3

TheFrator said:


> Anyone have issues with noise when connecting to the 2/64 via USB? The past few days I start to get intermittent audio crackles and pops that are about 12-15 dB less than the music playing. It sounds very similar to surface noise you might get from a record. It sometimes resolves itself when I restart my whole computer (the source feeding the BF2/64). I switched to using optical earlier today and haven't experienced any noise since.


Try changing your power cord to a different circuit (not just a different socket). If you don't have a home wiring schematic, try using a long drop cord and plugging into different rooms. I use a good UPS.

Here's some other suggestions: https://www.circuitbread.com/ee-faq/what-is-a-ground-loop


----------



## SolaVirtus

aj_brown_99 said:


> I've read that the Bifrost 2 is thicker, warmer and more mid-bass emphasis, vs. the 2/64 which is a bit brighter and faster. I'm wondering whether the 2 might be a better pairing with my existing setup, or am I over-thinking it?


When I got the 2/64 card and tried it out with most of my cans, the Arya V2 was the only set I thought didn't sound better on the new card. It didn't sound worse, just different. The more thick visceral sound of the OG card just works  well with the  V2. The newer card also sounds good with it, and better on my other cans (ZMFs, Elear, 650, 660S). But if the Arya V2 was the only headphone I was listening to, the BF2 OG would be my choice by a small margin.


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## PopDV (Dec 21, 2022)

Tried Monolith Liquid Platinum DAC and dont like it. So thinkg to swith to Bifrost 2 or to RME ADI-2. Now using E1DA DAC (unbalaced) and very happy but want balanced and more sirious DAC to pair with  MLP amp


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## emorrison33

PopDV said:


> Tried Monolith Liquid Platinum DAC and dont like it. So thinkg to swith to Bifrost 2 or to RME ADI-2. Now using E1DA DAC (unbalaced) and very happy but want balanced and more sirious DAC to pair with  MLP amp


The Bifrost 2/64 is fully balanced all the way through. The "OG" is not...at least that is my understanding.


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## Ripper2860

That is correct.


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## aj_brown_99

SolaVirtus said:


> When I got the 2/64 card and tried it out with most of my cans, the Arya V2 was the only set I thought didn't sound better on the new card. It didn't sound worse, just different. The more thick visceral sound of the OG card just works  well with the  V2. The newer card also sounds good with it, and better on my other cans (ZMFs, Elear, 650, 660S). But if the Arya V2 was the only headphone I was listening to, the BF2 OG would be my choice by a small margin.


This further supports starting with the OG, as the Aryas are my only cans at the moment. My sense is that with the Arya you need some warmth/thickness somewhere in your chain or it will sound a bit thin. My amp is very neutral so having warmth in the DAC makes sense. Alternatively you can get a warmer solid state amp like a Violectric or a hybrid like the Liquid Platinum and then run a more neutral DAC. That's probably what I'd do if I were starting from scratch today, as it's better to add color through an amp than a DAC, but can always make that switch in the future by getting the 2/64 card and a new amp.

Anyhow, thanks for the input!


----------



## cgb3

aj_brown_99 said:


> I'm thinking of getting a Bifrost to replace my existing Modi Multibit. My rig is Lake People RS-08 → Hifiman Arya V2
> 
> I'm wondering which version to get, the 2 or 2/64. The Aryas are neutral-bright, resolving and spacious, and the Lake People amp (which is similar to the Violectric V100 but with balanced out) is "reference neutral". Overall I love the resolution and speed, but find the sound a little bit thin, "digital", and wish there were more weight in the bass and macrodynamics.
> 
> ...


Order the new. The old isn't going to be appreciably cheaper.

If you don't like the new, return in 15 days for a 5% restock.

I kept my 2/64 upgrade card. I'm happy, great sound, but I could say the same about my OG.

I'm even now anticipating the


twigfarm said:


> Seems like you are to me just based on that statement.
> 
> I won't say that being "made in America" wasn't an added bonus that pleased me when I purchased my BF2 & Gungnir but I do appreciate & acknowledge that there are *A LOT* of talented designers & designs all over the world that deserve our attention and support as enthusiasts.


----------



## cgb3

twigfarm said:


> Seems like you are to me just based on that statement.
> 
> I won't say that being "made in America" wasn't an added bonus that pleased me when I purchased my BF2 & Gungnir but I do appreciate & acknowledge that there are *A LOT* of talented designers & designs all over the world that deserve our attention and support as enthusiasts.


China has locked down a lot of their country. A big reason for the chip shortage, the Chinese government.

When I say it's not politics, it's not. It's the current state of reality.

I purchased my Chinese headphones ~2 years ago. Would I do the same today, absolutely not. I'll only purchase gear from a country with a secure future. I don't put China in that category.

If you need service on your Chinese amp, and the country is closed, good luck.

By all means, follow your choice.


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## automojo (Dec 25, 2022)

I look, and listen to my Primaluna gear.
Built in a Chinese factory.
Amps- Prologue 4- Prologue 5- there simply isn’t any thing else out ther that offers the same combination of sound, drive,  realism and value- unless you look to upgraded/ modded old school gear.
I put  the 4 head to head to a Stereo 100- simply wasn’t a contest ) both with stock tubes).
Go figure…

 IMHO they put way more into their transformer construction than other  manufactures.
Because the basic circuits are virtually the same.
But like most things- probably a combo platter.

Just a FIY
The golden age of audio included just as many Japan produced products as US.
Maybe some consumers are looking for something different in other R2R DAC’s that Schiit simply doesn’t offer?
Why hassle them by bringing in ones personal political opinions?
How it that helpful?
Why should they have to defend a choice as a consumer buying an audio product in political terms?

I don’t think bringing up the subject of where a product is manufactured is political on face value.
Nor should it be.
But if you front load a  post to begin with by mentioning it…
Well, you’re seem to be getting what you played for.


----------



## sahmen

automojo said:


> Everyone can point fingers and have opinions.
> Great.
> Those opinions aren’t going to help you get better sound.. or communicate better with other  members… just the opposite.
> What business choose to do, and individuals choose to do it their business, they can take their lumps on their own accord as well.
> ...


Could you kindly let us know what PL 4 and PL 5 are?  I mean what brands they are?


----------



## automojo

sahmen said:


> Could you kindly let us know what PL 4 and PL 5 are?  I mean what brands they are?


Primaluna Prologue 4 power amp (EL34)
Primaluna Prologue 5 power amp (KT88)
Designed by a Dutcman
Manufactured in PRC/ China


----------



## Daniel Johnston

automojo said:


> I look, and listen to my Primaluna gear.
> Built in a Chinese factory.
> Amps- Prologue 4- Prologue 5- there simply isn’t any thing else out ther that offers the same combination of sound, drive,  realism and value- unless you look to upgraded/ modded old school gear.
> I put  the 4 head to head to a Stereo 100- simply wasn’t a contest ) both with stock tubes).
> ...


Agree that PrimaLuna is a fantastic brand. My Dialogue Premium HP is quite simply one of the best, most reliable bits of stereo gear. Sounds fantastic too. Same with Vincent gear. Designed in Germany, made in China. Unfortunately there aren’t many countries that can reliably manufacture labor intensive products for reasonable amounts of money. In the case of PL, they use point to point wiring. That is just plain labor intensive. 

Jason keeps the Schiit prices competitive because he designs them to require the least amount of manual labor to assemble. Hence all the surface mount components and PCBs. 

I agree that it isn’t the country of manufacture that is important, it’s how the parent company handles the ownership experience and after sales/warranty issues.


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## automojo (Dec 25, 2022)

Daniel Johnston said:


> Agree that PrimaLuna is a fantastic brand. My Dialogue Premium HP is quite simply one of the best, most reliable bits of stereo gear. Sounds fantastic too. Same with Vincent gear. Designed in Germany, made in China. Unfortunately there aren’t many countries that can reliably manufacture labor intensive products for reasonable amounts of money. In the case of PL, they use point to point wiring. That is just plain labor intensive.
> 
> Jason keeps the Schiit prices competitive because he designs them to require the least amount of manual labor to assemble. Hence all the surface mount components and PCBs.
> 
> I agree that it isn’t the country of manufacture that is important, it’s how the parent company handles the ownership experience and after sales/warranty issues.


Agreed.
I enjoyed reading Schiit Hapoens
And agree, as Stoddard  implies in his book, everyone’s free to choose their own business model, so to speak.
The end product, and support to the consumer is in the end the real deciding factor.
Where the tire meets the road, so to speak.
I think most here understand the value of domestic manufacturing in their countries/ nations.
But in a world driven economy- exclusively buying from one country or another, simply isn’t going to solve that countries problems, or their business.
Nor is front loading politics into DAC buying going to give you good sound.
Just my opinion, given the current state of affairs, it’s nice to have a political free zone here, don’t you think?


----------



## Daniel Johnston

automojo said:


> Agreed.
> I enjoyed reading Schiit Hapoens
> And agree, as Stoddard  implies in his book, everyone’s free to choose their own business model, so to speak.
> The end product, and support to the consumer is in the end the real deciding factor.
> ...


Yes. 

The main Schiit thread has derailed many times when politics get involved. Hence the “sine wave”.


----------



## automojo

Daniel Johnston said:


> Yes.
> 
> The main Schiit thread has derailed many times when politics get involved. Hence the “sine wave”.


When you read Schiit Happens-nothing political about IMHO. A good read. I esp enjoyed it from a business perspective.
One interesting thing Stoddard pointed out, in a few different ways. Is people's tendency to misinterpret things/read between the lines things that simply aren't there or accurate.
 And how/need to work around that. Esp dealing with customers.
IMHO that's clearly the case with Schiit threads becoming political.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

automojo said:


> When you read Schiit Happens-nothing political about IMHO. A good read. I esp enjoyed it from a business perspective.
> One interesting thing Stoddard pointed out, in a few different ways. Is people's tendency to misinterpret things/read between the lines things that simply aren't there or accurate.
> And how/need to work around that. Esp dealing with customers.
> IMHO that's clearly the case with Schiit threads becoming political.


The posts that were politically motivated were deleted. I didn’t intend to suggest the blog was politically motivated. And it is most certainly not Jason that derails the thread. 

Jason loosely moderates the blog, it’s only when things a go completely nuts (i.e political posts) the mods kick in and delete. Therefore the blog stays neutral.


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## automojo (Dec 25, 2022)

Daniel Johnston said:


> The posts that were politically motivated were deleted. I didn’t intend to suggest the blog was politically motivated. And it is most certainly not Jason that derails the thread.
> 
> Jason loosely moderates the blog, it’s only when things a go completely nuts (i.e political posts) the mods kick in and delete. Therefore the blog stays neutral.


Gottcha.
Free flow of information IMHO is important-I'd be doing the same thing.
Best thing to do is just to ignore those post, as they don’t warrant commenting on.
I certainly will in the  future.


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## twigfarm

Merry Christmas folks.  Sleep well.............

Dave


----------



## RickB

Those who have heard the Modi 3E and the Bifrost 2/64, which DAC would you say is brighter? TY


----------



## valkyrieorion

cgb3 said:


> Try changing your power cord to a different circuit (not just a different socket). If you don't have a home wiring schematic, try using a long drop cord and plugging into different rooms. I use a good UPS.
> 
> Here's some other suggestions: https://www.circuitbread.com/ee-faq/what-is-a-ground-loop


I have this with a NAD d3045. Changing sample rates made it go away for me. I usually used 24 bit 192khz with other dacs but had to lower to 92khz to have this go away. Also reading it could be USB port. JDs labs has some further reading in their support area when I was having similar issues https://jdslabs.com/support/troubleshooting/#category-1-question-8


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## The Hawk (Dec 27, 2022)

RickB said:


> Those who have heard the Modi 3E and the Bifrost 2/64, which DAC would you say is brighter? TY


I have the 3+ and it’s brighter and not as smooth as my 2/64 (more “etch” to the highs)


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## RickB

The Hawk said:


> I have the 3+ and it’s brighter and not as smooth as my 2/64 (more “etch” to the highs)


Thanks. On the other site (SBAF) there was a post by someone saying the 2/64 was uncomfortably bright. Made me question my future purchase decisions.


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## Author

RickB said:


> Thanks. On the other site (SBAF) there was a post by someone saying the 2/64 was uncomfortably bright. Made me question my future purchase decisions.


I recall reading that thread, including older posts, a number of which recommended some relatively substantial burn-in. Or ”brain-train“. Or both. This kind of issue makes me wish Schiit would increase the return window to 30 days.

Of course, none of this stopped me from purchasing the BF and Lyr+ last week. 😎


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## automojo

If you want less etch and not spend a ton of cash-find a older one with the Velvet AK chip. Usually when you move up in a product line the upper dac's give resolution with out etch-to a point.
Frankly IMHO some etch is simply on the recording-so you have to choose a smoother dac with less resolution in those areas.
Never a free lunch.


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## The Hawk (Dec 28, 2022)

RickB said:


> Thanks. On the other site (SBAF) there was a post by someone saying the 2/64 was uncomfortably bright. Made me question my future purchase decisions.


My 2 cents:

I think a lot of that is very system dependent. And I say that because I’m quite treble sensitive and on my primary listening setup (Bluesound NODE used as a transport for my attached NAS, Burson Soloist 3XP, Bifrost 2/64 all feeding my 2021 LCD-X) I do not find the 2/64 made my system bright at all. In fact it was brighter when I still used the built in NODE DAC.

It did have an “etch” to the highs during early listening but I left it alone to burn in for about 100hrs and it was gone after that.


----------



## automojo

The Hawk said:


> My 2 cents:
> 
> I think a lot of that is very system dependent. And I say that because I’m quite treble sensitive and on my primary listening setup (Bluesound NODE used as a transport for my attached NAS, Burson Soloist 3XP, Bifrost 2/64 all feeding my 2021 LCD-X) I do not find the 2/64 made my system bright at all. In fact it was brighter when I see the built in NODE DAC.
> 
> It did have an “etch” to the highs during early listening but I left it alone to burn in for about 100hrs and it was gone after that.


Agreed-I have been borrowing a broken in 2/64. It's not bright by any means. And I have Emit's and Great Heils. I originally thought it might be. I like the OG-but will eventually upgrade I imagine. But the difference is not life or death. I can live with both versions.


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## automojo

I think part of the issue is some were  using the OG BF2 to tame a overly bright system. Then did the upgrade, and found it didn't work. IMHO they need to work on their system vs the DAC.


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## The Hawk

automojo said:


> Frankly IMHO some etch is simply on the recording-so you have to choose a smoother dac with less resolution in those areas.
> Never a free lunch.


That is an excellent point that I’m sure a lot of folks overlook. So much music is so poorly mastered it won’t sound smooth or etch free on anything but the warmest tilted systems. I listen to a lot of genre’s of music but one that typically can be found fatiguing is metal……some of those recordings are just way too hot in the upper treble, even more so on a lot of “Remastered” albums


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## schneller (Jan 1, 2023)

I just plugged my BF 2/64 into my chain. Out of the box, connected to power for four hours first to warm up, and now playing for the first time via SE out. This is right after unplugging my Gungnir MB A2/Unison, so a back-to-back comparison of sorts.

Immediate impressions:

More treble clarity but not harsh at all. I am hearing more detail in the music. A lot more. More insight. Maybe slightly wider sound stage. For sure better blackground.

Does it perhaps lack the overall bass heft of the Gungnir MB A2? No. But the BF 2/64 feels more agile in a sense while not lacking in bass response at all.

I will post updates as the BF 2/64 warms up for the next days and I switch back to Gungnir. The BF 2/64 is sounding more "hifi" and is a great match to my NAIM Supernait 3/Dynaudio Contour system, which is very mids-focused/neutral (sometimes to a fault).


----------



## Poimandres (Jan 1, 2023)

Looking forward to your additional impressions on the 2/64.

Quick question are you able to utilize the se and balanced outs simultaneously?


----------



## Neweymatt

Poimandres said:


> Looking forward to your additional impressions on the 2/64.
> 
> Quick question are you able to utilize the se and balanced outs simultaneously?


Yep, I've got my BF2 balanced out to the Jot2, and SE out to the Vali2+, and they both operate at the same time.  

What's your use case?


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## Poimandres

I figured it could, just wasn’t certain.  It is nice to be able to feed two amps the same signal and run them both at the same time.


----------



## schneller

Poimandres said:


> Looking forward to your additional impressions on the 2/64.
> 
> Quick question are you able to utilize the se and balanced outs simultaneously?



I could run BF 2/64 to a Lokius via both SE and balanced and use it to switch (with Lokius in pass through mode) but then it goes from Lokius to my amp via SE to DIN. My amp has no balanced input.


----------



## JerseyD

Had my OG Bifrost upgraded in 2019 to MultiBit.  Does that make it a defacto BF2, or were there other changes when the BF2 was introduced?


----------



## Daniel Johnston

JerseyD said:


> Had my OG Bifrost upgraded in 2019 to MultiBit.  Does that make it a defacto BF2, or were there other changes when the BF2 was introduced?


Yes, OG Bifrost MB and Bifrost 2 very different beasts sonically and component wise.


----------



## ssmith3046

I could discern little difference between my original Bifrost multibit and original Modi multibit with the firmware update.


----------



## strider1007

My new Bifrost 2/64 has arrived! Two months ago I was listening to the Asgard3/Modius combo. I upgraded from the Asgard to the Lyr+, which turned out to be a very good decision. I already owned a couple of 6SN7 tubes, so tuberolling was a given. Improvement across the board. More details, more spacious, bigger soundstage, better defined and deeper bass, mid and top-end brighter without turning harsh, voices sounded more natural.. Good choice.

Then I was able to increase my income because my employer agreed to up my 30 hour workweek to 38.. Even with the by now ridiculous energyprices here it provided the opportunity to replace the Modius with the Bifrost 2/64. Last week I noticed Schiit-Europe had the Bifrost in stock, and five minutes later the order-conformation popped into my mailbox.

And this morning it arrived. Working from home today gave me the opportunity to unbox and connect it within minutes. That was around eleven in the morning. I let the internetradio play while I kept working untill five in the afternoon. After dinner I got ready for the first impressions..

Overwhelming sums it up I guess. I did not expect that much difference. It all changed again, mostly improving on every aspect. Again. Most noticably the fullness of it all. Fuller, deeper and much more defined bass. Drums sound much more lifelike. Upright bass has a bigger body, sounds warmer. As do voices. And there is so much more micro-detail in the voices.. Wow.

Soundstage is wider and deeper. And the seperation of instruments is really awesome. Where I used to hear the string-section I now hear seventeen individual violins.. A choir now turns out to be a few rows of separate voices.. Who knew..

But.. After an hour of intense listening some doubt crept in. Voices are my main focus, and they sounded a bit too thick, too dark somehow. Obviously depending on the recording, but still.. I switched the Lyr+ from tube to SS and that did the trick.

While tuberolling I had made some notes, and the Brimar 6SN7 I was using had gotten the remark of being a nice and warm, very tubey sound. Which worked very fine while using the Modius, but really not with the Bifrost. Switching to a Sylvania (very bright, a bit thin in the Modius combo) hit bulls-eye. Much better balance, the darkness or thickness in the voices was gone.

A little context: I am listening to FLAC files from my PC, using optical cable while listening to my QUAD ERA-1 headphones.

These are only first impressions, tha dac hasn’t played more than twelve hours. I can’t wait to see what happens over the next few days. I’ll keep you posted.


----------



## decooney

@strider1007 give it a few weeks to settle in - more.  There are split camps on this forum around this topic, and the good folks here who advised me to give it a few weeks, and a few others who said give it a month were correct. The first 24hrs, mine was notably detailed. I switched back and forth between NOS and MCB filter modes.  NOS was always smooth after the first 24-72hrs. Interestingly enough, the MCB filter smoothed out more gradually so between 2-4 weeks.

Schiit will tell you this dac does not burn in.  Some here will call bull-Schiit on that.  Let your ears be your guide.  Please report back on your findings.


----------



## Author

decooney said:


> @strider1007 give it a few weeks to settle in - more.  There are split camps on this forum around this topic, and the good folks here who advised me to give it a few weeks, and a few others who said give it a month were correct. The first 24hrs, mine was notably detailed. I switched back and forth between NOS and MCB filter modes.  NOS was always smooth after the first 24-72hrs. Interestingly enough, the MCB filter smoothed out more gradually so between 2-4 weeks.
> 
> Schiit will tell you this dac does not burn in.  Some here will call bull-Schiit on that.  Let your ears be your guide.  Please report back on your findings.


All of which completely undermines the confidence a 15 day return window is intended to inspire in the customer.  That kind of Schiity bullSchiit really annoys me. They have to say there’s no burn in, otherwise they’re admitting that the return window is… bullSchiit. Sigh.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

Author said:


> All of which completely undermines the confidence a 15 day return window is intended to inspire in the customer.  That kind of Schiity bullSchiit really annoys me. They have to say there’s no burn in, otherwise they’re admitting that the return window is… bullSchiit. Sigh.


Jason Stoddard is very clear about burn in and fancy cables. He doesn’t believe in them. IIRC he only recommends leaving it on to warm up before making sonic judgement.


----------



## theeclone

Daniel Johnston said:


> Jason Stoddard is very clear about burn in...He doesn’t believe in [it]


But doesn't Mike Moffat?


----------



## Daniel Johnston

theeclone said:


> But doesn't Mike Moffat?


I don’t remember.  But to assume Schiit is being disingenuous by somehow promoting burn that takes months but only 15 day return window is not factual. 

If you don’t like something after 2 weeks, the chance of liking it in two months is pretty low. That’s been my experience.  My initial BF2 impression was a solid meh. The 2/64 upgrade made it better. My first impression of Yggdrasil OG was shockingly good. This was after keeping both DACs turned on, playing music for about 2 days prior to critical listening. 

YMMV


----------



## FranckZZZ

I have a MB card in my Lyr3. I'd love to know peoples thoughts who have both the MB Lyr3 and Bifrost 2 - if there is a big difference?


----------



## kumar402

Daniel Johnston said:


> I don’t remember.  But to assume Schiit is being disingenuous by somehow promoting burn that takes months but only 15 day return window is not factual.
> 
> If you don’t like something after 2 weeks, the chance of liking it in two months is pretty low. That’s been my experience.  My initial BF2 impression was a solid meh. The 2/64 upgrade made it better. My first impression of Yggdrasil OG was shockingly good. This was after keeping both DACs turned on, playing music for about 2 days prior to critical listening.
> 
> YMMV


If you raise a request to return within 15 days window, you get additional few days or week to post it bringing you closer to 1 month and I don’t know Schiit or anyone has asked for 1 month burn in. At max 2-3 days.


----------



## theeclone

Daniel Johnston said:


> I don’t remember.  But to assume Schiit is being disingenuous by somehow promoting burn that takes months but only 15 day return window is not factual.
> 
> If you don’t like something after 2 weeks, the chance of liking it in two months is pretty low. That’s been my experience.  My initial BF2 impression was a solid meh. The 2/64 upgrade made it better. My first impression of Yggdrasil OG was shockingly good. This was after keeping both DACs turned on, playing music for about 2 days prior to critical listening.
> 
> YMMV


I don't disagree. Just thought it was pertinent since Mike is the DAC guy. FWIW I think the 2/64 will sound good within a day, and probably get progressively better thereafter.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-dac/ :

"Although Moffatt warned me that the Yggy wouldn’t sound good right out of the box, I gave it a quick listen anyway after an hour of warm-up. He was right; the Yggy was hard, bright, forward, and flat. I checked in with it a couple of times over the next week and heard it improving somewhat, but it was still disappointing. I decided to let it sit in my rack, powered up, for a full month before revisiting it.

"When I returned to the Yggy I discovered a DAC that wasn’t superb. It wasn’t even good. And it certainly wasn’t “good for the money.” What I discovered, to my amazement, was a DAC that was stunningly great, period."


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## Daniel Johnston

kumar402 said:


> If you raise a request to return within 15 days window, you get additional few days or week to post it bringing you closer to 1 month and I don’t know Schiit or anyone has asked for 1 month burn in. At max 2-3 days.


You should direct this at @Author. 

I was responding to his perceived injustices that Schiit’s return window is too short to evaluate their DACs.


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## decooney (Jan 6, 2023)

Reposting this interesting statement by the AS thread that member @theeclone surfaced:



> _..."I decided to let it sit in my rack, powered up,* for a full month* before revisiting it.
> 
> When I returned to the Yggy I discovered a DAC that wasn’t superb. It wasn’t even good. And it certainly wasn’t “good for the money.” What I discovered, to my amazement, was a DAC that was stunningly great, period."_



If I had listened to Jason Stoddard's beliefs about "no burn-in" or cables, I would have returned my Bifrost 2/64 after the first week. NOS mode was good after 72hrs, MCB filter mode sucked at first. Bleh.  At first MCB was grainy and bloated in my home audio speaker listener system.  The longer I left the BF 2/64 powered on and running for the first full two weeks, it did get better, slightly smoother. Was not expecting any change after this first 2 weeks.  Kept the dac, and with a hunch and following recommendations by others here on head-fi, after the full 30 days even MCB filter mode smoothed out a bit more.  While I still prefer NOS mode in my all tube system, I did not expect to like MCB filter mode at all, ever. Something did change for the better after 30 days for whatever reason - I don't know. Just sounded better.    I suspect there are some people with limited speakers and limited hearing who just cannot hear a difference at all. Okay, is what it is, and perhaps they get the benefit to save time and $.

Two other colleagues of mine bought the BF 2/64 comparing to other days and noticed similar changes occurring over days 1-30. No change for mine after 30 days.

>> I tend to follow the actual designers with ears behind the scenes who actually design this gear and listen carefully.<<. Trust your ears.


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## Neweymatt

theeclone said:


> I don't disagree. Just thought it was pertinent since Mike is the DAC guy. FWIW I think the 2/64 will sound good within a day, and probably get progressively better thereafter.
> 
> https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-dac/ :
> 
> ...





decooney said:


> Reposting this interesting statement by the AS thread that member @theeclone surfaced:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This excellent video from Darko & Jana is primarily about the Tyr, but provides insight into Schiit’s production processes:


At about 17:30, Jason says that “All products are burned in for 1-4 days…” primarily to catch any defects before boxing them up and shipping them to us Schiitheads.

That said, my own experience with my BF2 was quite similar to The Absolute Sound review of the Yggy, I recall it was a bit grainy on first listen, but became much smoother after a couple of days.  So I don’t really know what to make of this other than perhaps brain burn-in rather than anything actually changing in my BF2.


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## Author (Jan 6, 2023)

Daniel Johnston said:


> I don’t remember.  But to assume Schiit is being disingenuous by somehow promoting burn that takes months but only 15 day return window is not factual.


I believe you may be referring to my recent post when you call a characterization about Schiit’s stance on burn in to be not factual. I never commented about that at all. Please reread. My reference to lengthy burn in was in response to a forum member who mentioned this as a possibility.

What I actually stated was that if burn in indeed takes weeks to hear the ‘settled in’ sound of the equipment, a 15 day return window is useless.

Two things can be true at once. I can love Schiit as a company and I can love their products. And I can also think that 15 days is not long enough for some customers to make a correct decision on whether or not they made a good purchase... given the length of time needed for the equipment to settle in. In addition to this thread, there are lots of posts specifically characterizing the new BF needing lengthy burn in on SBAF.

I also never said anything about cables.

 Feel free to disagree with my post, but please at least characterize it correctly.

Thank you for reading!


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## Author

Daniel Johnston said:


> You should direct this at @Author.
> 
> I was responding to his perceived injustices that Schiit’s return window is too short to evaluate their DACs.



Goodness. Please read post 4072.


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## ksb643

FranckZZZ said:


> I have a MB card in my Lyr3. I'd love to know peoples thoughts who have both the MB Lyr3 and Bifrost 2 - if there is a big difference?


I have the Jot 2 with MB card. I thought my Modius Akm sounded as good. BF2/64 is a pretty good jump over either. IMO


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## decooney

In last month's_ Passion for Sound_ reviewer video, he covered the new Bifrost 2/64. Includes personal comparisons to former Bifrost and Yggy OG.  He too commented about "_burn-in_" and noticing changes over time. Some comparison about NOS mode and the MCB filter modes. Similar observations to some members here.


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## Daniel Johnston

Author said:


> Goodness. Please read post 4072.





Author said:


> All of which completely undermines the confidence a 15 day return window is intended to inspire in the customer.  That kind of *Schiity bullSchiit *really annoys me. They have to say there’s no burn in, otherwise they’re admitting that the return window is… bullSchiit. Sigh.


Okay. 

This statement reads a bit of “sour grapes”. Also, I just pointed out that Jason doesn’t believe that it takes weeks to months for his products to perform optimally. Apparently the actual return window is longer based on other comments. 

Burn in is controversial. if one believes that burn in takes over 14 days to happen, that’s totally cool. If one agrees with SBAF, cool. I don’t see how a forum or person’s opinion undermines Schiit’s 15 day return policy. 

I highlighted the portion I found interesting. I’m not trying to attack you, but I also don’t think I misrepresented you either.


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## Author

My initial post was acerbic, and the punning exaggerated that tone. It was indeed meant to make a point, but the punning took it too far. I have the new BF and Lyr coming any time now. I’m invested. And a supporter of the company.

I never attributed any words to Jason or Schiit directly. But I do know I would have an incentive to minimize the perception that burn in is real if the products I sold could benefit with burn in that takes days, weeks, even months as some would claim — when that length of time exceeded the return window I offered.

And I know it’s not that simple. There are all kinds of variables, not the least of which is a person’s ears. But I do have a right to my opinion - even as you do, saying my words were an injustice. Which I do take exception to.

Jason has built a tremendous brand, and I count myself as a fan.

Take care Daniel.


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## Daniel Johnston

Author said:


> And I know it’s not that simple. There are all kinds of variables, not the least of which is a person’s ears. But I do have a right to my opinion - even as you do, saying my words were an injustice. Which I do take exception to.


Your opinions and words are not an injustice. I can’t see how I offended you. It certainly was not the intention. 

The injustice in question is that Schiit has a return window that is shorter than what it takes for the equipment to sound optimal. In actuality, one can have more than the 15 days to evaluate the equipment. Hence the perceived part of the perceived injustice. 

I was.just redirecting a post that quoted me when it should’ve been directed to you.


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## MacMan31

Could someone please refresh my memory? Which is NOS mode and which is OS mode? Right now the input lights are pulsing on my BF2. Which mode is that?


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## mjstealey

MacMan31 said:


> Could someone please refresh my memory? Which is NOS mode and which is OS mode? Right now the input lights are pulsing on my BF2. Which mode is that?


Pulsing light is NOS
Solid light is MCB OS


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## MacMan31

mjstealey said:


> Pulsing light is NOS
> Solid light is MCB OS



Okay. Thank you. I couldn't remember which was which. Now I'm trying it in OS mode.


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## roncruiser

Ordered.  Waiting.  Can't wait.


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