# Anyone use floor speakers for their computer setup?



## epocs

Hello,
   
  I am considering getting a pair of Martin Logan Puritys for my computer setup. However, I am pretty scared that these type of floor speakers are not really meant for near field listening. I would be literally 2 feet away from each of the speakers and so I wanted to know if anyone has done it before.
   
  Some people have told me just as long as they are angled the right way, that it should be good.
   
  While others on forums and such say that there needs to be ample space to listen to these type of speakers.
   
  What do you guys think? Better off sticking to bookshelf speakers?
   
  Thanks!


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## BlackbeardBen

Well, it certainly won't be ideal.  What is their placement in the room like?
   
  Are you hoping to eventually move them to a normal listening position in another room, when moving to a bigger home?
   
  Being electrostatics you won't have the different dispersion problems that floorstanding cone speakers have at close range for the mids and highs.  The woofer will have that issue, but I'm not sure it matters so much - especially if you're comparing to a bookshelf + sub system.


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## epocs

The room is my bedroom, but it is very small actually. There will probably be about a foot and a half of space behind the speaker, and a desk between the two speakers.
   
  The room is probably 8x10ft so it is tiny. I do MAYBE have some thought in putting these speakers into a living room when I move in half a year but really it's about if they are better than a bookshelf setup. My budget is about 2k so I can't think of any bookshelf speakers that would have quite the same soundstage and detail as the purities.


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## BlackbeardBen

How wide is your desk?
   
  I bet these (a $3300 setup in the '90s) will outperform the Martin Logans both in your bedroom and in a living room:
  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1299673341&/Infinity-Modulus-speaker-syste
   
  You get a level control and extension selection (-3 dB at 22 Hz or 35 Hz) for the sub too, which should help get the bass level right for your bedroom.
   
  You'll need an amp for the speakers though - I bet a refurbished or newly built Dynaco ST-70 would be perfect.


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## epocs

My desk is probably 42 inches wide. I'll research those up a little btw.


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## BlackbeardBen

So you'll basically be sitting between the speakers, if you get floorstanders?
   
  :-/
   
  If that's the case, I think bookshelf speakers plus a sub may be better in your situation.
   
  Beyond the Stereophile review, here's some first hand accounts:
  http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250791
   
  It's rare to see the whole system together - everything was sold separately, and not everyone bought the stands ($300 new) or the sub $2000 new).  You could get some angled desk stands for them for use now, and when you put them in a bigger room you could use the stands.
   
  The Modulus is said to compete with the large, expensive, and hard to drive floorstanding Infinities, like the Kappa 8 and Renaissance 90 I have.  In fact, I'd much rather have the Modulus system than the Kappas.


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## RexAeterna

i run a pair of floor tower Technic sb-t200 bi-amped on my rig in my attic and side i'm on is about 10x10 and not very big but difference i have is my table i'm using is about 6ft wide and yours is about 3 1/2 so if do go with floor speakers it depends how wide and how tall cause there are floor speakers out there that is not very tall at all and might require a stand or something while the tall ones(about 4-5ft tall) i call towers can simply be placed next to the desk or desired area.


 the width of the enclosure is matter of size of the woofer/sub-woofer or it can have both a woofer and sub-woofer(a woofer is for frequencies of 50-100hz while a sub-woofer handles frequencies below 50hz) or it can be very thin with dual 5'' woofers/sub-woofers like my technics.


 if space is an issue and since this is a bedroom i assume lot of stuff is in the room that will effect the acoustics especially a bed. it'll be better to buy some bookshelf speakers then maybe and angle it on your desk in a way with the stands for a near-field soundstage and monitoring. also take your time cause it can take awhile to find the perfect posistioning of your speaker placement that you personally desire. if you have nice distance of your sitting arrangememnt and the desk then getting a pair of floor towers with some nice 5.5'' sub-woofers will work great as well.


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## epocs

it looks like the puritys at least have some sort of ability to angle in or out, and angle up or down with.
   
  Also, I actually measured right now, I would be making a 3 foot triangle basically with the speakers. The speakers would be about 3.5 feet away from each other, and I would be about 3 feet from each of them from my ear to the speaker itself. However there would be only about 1 foot of space between the speaker and the back wall which is angled in (for bay windows).
   
  But before I go anymore into this, the reason I wanted the Martin Logans was because of the really organic sound they provide with fast response and a HUGE soundstage. Lastly, the main factor is that I don't really have too much space on my desk for an amp so I need powered speakers. If you guys know of other powered speakers that are better for my setup then please recommend. I am still reading up on these Infinity Moduluses, which seem very interesting from the reading so far.
   
  If there is something that can beat out a pair of estat panel floor speakers like the martin logans, I would love to know.


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## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i run a pair of floor tower Technic sb-t200 bi-amped on my rig in my attic and side i'm on is about 10x10 and not very big but difference i have is my table i'm using is about 6ft wide and yours is about 3 1/2 so if do go with floor speakers it depends how wide and how tall cause there are floor speakers out there that is not very tall at all and might require a stand or something while the tall ones(about 4-5ft tall) i call towers can simply be placed next to the desk or desired area.
> 
> 
> the width of the enclosure is matter of size of the woofer/sub-woofer or it can have both a woofer and sub-woofer(a woofer is for frequencies of 50-100hz while a sub-woofer handles frequencies below 50hz) or it can be very thin with dual 5'' woofers/sub-woofers like my technics.
> ...


 

 No.  A subwoofer is a woofer in an independent, separate enclosure that plays the bass frequencies.
   
  Woofers can play anything from 5 Hz to 2000 Hz or more, depending on the speaker configuration.
   
  And it'd help people reading your post if you could avoid run-on sentences.


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## Jon L

Quote: 





epocs said:


> I am considering getting a pair of Martin Logan Puritys for my computer setup.


 

  The way you presented your question makes me think that you plan to hook up the Martin Logans to your consumer-grade computer, maybe even straight to your computer's Mobo/soundcard analogue output or minimal USB DAC, etc.  
   
  The Purity's are actually a pretty revealing speaker system despite the entry-level ML category and self-powered platform.  They can sound VERY nice when hooked up to a great source, and its talents would be lost if you are sitting 2 feet from them as "computer speakers."  Why spend this kind of money for this purpose?


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## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





epocs said:


> it looks like the puritys at least have some sort of ability to angle in or out, and angle up or down with.
> 
> Also, I actually measured right now, I would be making a 3 foot triangle basically with the speakers. The speakers would be about 3.5 feet away from each other, and I would be about 3 feet from each of them from my ear to the speaker itself. However there would be only about 1 foot of space between the speaker and the back wall which is angled in (for bay windows).
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I honestly haven't heard any electrostats.  But I love planar magnetic/dynamic hybrid speakers - which the Infinities are, and the MLs very similar.  The tweeters for the Modulus are planar designs; actually, a refinement of the tweeter used in the $50000 Infinity IRS V.  They're very, very good - among the best tweeters made.  The soundstage and transient response of the tweeter is in the same league as the MLs, if not better.  I'm not sure about the mid-woofer, although by all accounts it keeps up with the tweeter.  The bass response of that subwoofer definitely is in another league, however.
   
  But the setup you're describing - with the Martin Logans and you forming an equilateral triangle - is good.  It's not really possible for me to say how they'll interact with the wall behind them - the rear port may make things difficult, or it may not.  Windows can also be difficult, as they usually reflect higher frequencies but transmit bass frequencies.  You don't really need to worry about what's behind you (not the speakers), especially with a bed that will absorb rather than reflect much of the energy.  Since you're sitting so close, the majority of what you'll be hearing is direct radiation - plus the reflection off the walls behind the speakers.
   
  Actually, where you're buying from has a return policy or the ability to do home trials, they'd be worth a try.  I don't think any _other_ floorstanders would be better, and your desk is narrow enough that bigger monitors may be more difficult to work with than the MLs.  The Adam A7X and A8X also come to mind as options for nearfield use, but I'd probably take the MLs over them.  The MLs seem to be a _very_ good value with their built-in amp - and the ability to bypass it too.


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## epocs

Just to clarify:
   
  I have a library of FLAC and 320 bitrate music being fed from my computer on foobar 2000 to a Nuforce HDP DAC/Amp which I have tested against other higher end DACs and felt it was quite competitive.
   
  The preamp-out of this DAC will be feeding the speakers through fairly high quality RCA cables. I would like to hope that this setup is good enough to emphasize the qualities of the speakers I use. Currently I have a pair of Audioengine A5 speakers being fed through this setup and it is great but I was just looking for a viable upgrade.
  
   
  And actually I could get them from a place that does have a return policy so maybe I should just try them and give them back if they don't float my boat I suppose. However, just scoping my options out there.
  Quote: 





jon l said:


> Quote:
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## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





epocs said:


> Just to clarify:
> 
> I have a library of FLAC and 320 bitrate music being fed from my computer on foobar 2000 to a Nuforce HDP DAC/Amp which I have tested against other higher end DACs and felt it was quite competitive.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The HDP should serve excellently as a source - I found my uDAC to do well when pressed into service as a preamp, and I think the HDP probably solves the slightly uncontrolled bass that I find the uDAC to have via line-out.
   
  As far as an upgrade from AE5s - well, I think you're going in the right direction.
   
  I like the adjustable base angle - so you can tilt them up if needed.  The bass level toggle is great too.  The only real negative I can see is if you have them placed so close that you end up with phase cancellation from the rear wave.  You'd need to measure the distance to see what wavelength(s) will end up 180 degrees out of phase.  If you angle them, this might not be as big of a problem.


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## RexAeterna

the way speakers were designed since the 60's were called woofers for low frequencies but only handled down to 50hz and reason behind the name ''sub'' woofer is for sub-bass frequencies. they don't have to be built in a separate enclourse at all. lot of floor speakers since the mid 70's had them. it was rare tho to see a tower with both a woofer and sub in same cabnient cause the speaker would be huge and very heavy cause of the wood and magnets used.

 most subs,yes today are built in a seperate enclourse especially for home theater but avg good qaulity floor speakers or bookshelf monitors will have a subwoofer already built in the same box with the tweeter and midrange or tweeter horns and ribbons depending on the speaker your going for. it's the cross-over that controls each specific frequency to a specific driver. can range anywhere from 5.5'' up to 18''. also it depends on the acoustics of the box and damping as well cause it will need to control the move-ment of air pushed and pulled  to ensure the voice coil is not affected in any way.  

  
  Quote: 





blackbeardben said:


> No.  A subwoofer is a woofer in an independent, separate enclosure that plays the bass frequencies.
> Woofers can play anything from 5 Hz to 2000 Hz or more, depending on the speaker configuration.
> 
> And it'd help people reading your post if you could avoid run-on sentences.


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## BlackbeardBen

Again, you fail at writing coherent, non-run-on sentences.
  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> the way speakers were designed since the 60's were called woofers for low frequencies but only handled down to 50hz and reason behind the name ''sub'' woofer is for sub-bass frequencies. they don't have to be built in a separate enclourse at all. lot of floor speakers since the mid 70's had them. it was rare tho to see a tower with both a woofer and sub in same cabnient cause the speaker would be huge and very heavy cause of the wood and magnets used.
> 
> most subs,yes today are built in a seperate enclourse especially for home theater but avg good qaulity floor speakers or bookshelf monitors will have a subwoofer already built in the same box with the tweeter and midrange or tweeter horns and ribbons depending on the speaker your going for. it's the cross-over that controls each specific frequency to a specific driver. can range anywhere from 5.5'' up to 18''. also it depends on the acoustics of the box and damping as well cause it will need to control the move-ment of air pushed and pulled  to ensure the voice coil is not affected in any way.
> 
> ...


 


 No, a low frequency (cone) driver in a speaker is still called a woofer - and never a subwoofer except by request of the marketing department (which may be the source of your confusion).  In fact, the first "subwoofer" was called a "bass speaker" - that was the 18" servo-controlled separate bass speaker that went with the Infinity Servo-Statik 1, designed in 1966 and widely released in 1968  (it was also, by far, the most expensive speaker set ever made at the time).  If you'll kindly note, Wikipedia has been updated to reflect this in the last few days - by a regular contributor as a result of my research.  I realized that Infinity's Servo Statik predated the subwoofers Ken Kreisel created (I believe he was inspired by them, actually), so I brought this up in the discussions there.
   
  A few later Infinities, including the IRS I/II/III/V, IRS Beta, and RS-1b, have separate servo controlled bass towers for each side, with four to six 8"-12" woofers in each.  They're still called bass towers, not subwoofers - the term wasn't even invented until later (I'd guess it was the movie _Earthquake_ that spawned the name), by marketing departments eager to give an enticing name to their new products.
   
  Yes, many speakers before that couldn't go lower than 40 Hz or so - especially the big electrostatic speakers that were the only real high-end speakers available then.  But when speakers had woofers that went lower than that - they were _not_ called subwoofers.
   
\
   
  That's the 1976 Infinity Quantum Line Source speaker.  It extends all the way down to 18 Hz at -3 dB, thanks to its dual voice coil Watkins woofer.  That driver is _not_ a subwoofer, despite extending below where most subwoofers give up the chase.
   
   


   
  This is the 1987 Infinity IRS Gamma.  The woofers extends down to an almost unheard-of 15 Hz at -3 dB, thanks to a servo feedback control - like the one that Arnie Nudell and Gary Christie designed in the Servo Statik 1.  They are not subwoofers.
   
   
   
  Now, imagine a speaker that has a normal woofer - extending down to, say your 50 Hz magic number (higher than that, it would be a mid-bass coupler, like both the QLS and IRS Gamma have), that would make the speaker sound whole - if bass light.  If there were another driver below that, producing, say 15 Hz to 50 Hz, I suppose you could call that a "sub-woofer", because it plays lower than the proper woofer in the speaker.  Not because it plays "sub-bass" frequencies.  50 Hz is not sub-bass.  Below 20 Hz, yes - that's the nominal limit of human hearing of a sine wave as a coherent tone, although you certainly feel below that and some people hear lower as tones (I can hear tones down to about 16 Hz or so).  But how many speakers do you know that extend below 20 Hz?  I'll give you a hint - there's not many of them, and they're all _very_ expensive.
   
  If the "woofer" doesn't play down to normal bass levels - the 50 Hz magic number you gave, or perhaps above or below that a little - then it is a mid-bass coupler.  It couples the midrange and the bass driver (the woofer) together.  If the "subwoofer" is of the same size and perhaps the exact same design as the "woofer", then it is just the low-tuned woofer (or just plain "woofer") and the other is the "high-tuned" woofer, or perhaps a mid-bass coupler (or interchangeably, the "mid-bass" woofer).
   
  Now, show me a home speaker that has a built-in "sub-woofer" in the same cabinet that has a high-pass crossover at or near 50 Hz.  I bet you can't find more than one or two esoteric designs, if any at all.


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## RexAeterna

didn't know that. also i was curious instead of criticizing, you could of simply corrected me with the specific knowledge you have currently wrote down? Was that too hard? i never said anything about being an expert. i just assumed from your first comment you were just some kid that likes to have their car trunk fart all the time and i was trying to share of my very little knowledge i had and learned. Wasn't trying to correct anything or prove anyone wrong.


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## BlackbeardBen

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> didn't know that. also i was curious instead of criticizing, you could of simply corrected me with the specific knowledge you have currently wrote down? Was that too hard? i never said anything about being an expert. i just assumed from your first comment you were just some kid that likes to have their car trunk fart all the time and i was trying to share of my very little knowledge i had and learned. Wasn't trying to correct anything or prove anyone wrong.


 

 That's fine - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be condescending or mean.  I'm not a total expert either - I've only read a handful of interviews, technical reports, reviews, and manuals to give me an idea of what I'm talking about (beyond my basic circuits knowledge from college).
   
  I haven't ever owned a car sub and I don't ever plan on it - home stereo is what I like; in particular Infinity speakers.
   
  I do agree that "subwoofer" is becoming a more popular term for the bass driver in speakers, certainly thanks to marketing departments.  People see "subwoofer" and think "ooh, that will play lotsa bass", of course - "woofer" doesn't have the same cache.
   
  There are also cases where "subwoofer", or at least "sub-woofer" is perhaps not entirely undeserved.  If a speaker incorporates a long-throw actual subwoofer driver, or perhaps an independent amp for just the woofers - there's perhaps justification for calling that a "subwoofer" thanks to characteristics shared with _typical_ subwoofer designs.  Again, I think it's really just a matter of marketing.


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## moonboy403

If you sit so near the speakers and don't have space for an amp, why not try for some powered studio monitors. I have the Adam A7s and Adam S3As and they're perfect for nearfield application as they''re designed to do so.


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