# ☯️ Cavalli Audio's Liquid Carbon... a $599 Cavalli amp???



## warrenpchi

*Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon*​  
  
*NOTE:  ALL CAVALLI LIQUID CARBON UNITS HAVE NOW BEEN SOLD!*​ 


   
*Introduction & History*
  
 Confession time everyone, I've known about the Liquid Carbon for some time now, having been one of the lucky few to have previewed it months ahead of its announcement.
  
 And although I find the amp to be amazing in its performance, and its price point for that matter, it was the story behind the creation of this amp that made me appreciate it on a whole other level.
  
 Though he was reluctant at first, I was finally able to convince Dr. Cavalli to tell you all the backstory behind this amp... about why the Liquid Carbon even exists at all... and this is what he just sent me via email (posted with permission).
  
_Quoted from an email from Alex Cavalli_: 





> There was one primary impetus for the development of this amp:  you.
> 
> It is this community of headphone addicts, of which I am proud to be a part, that has supported Cavalli Audio throughout the years - from the DIY days long before any commercial amps, through the introduction of the Liquid Fire four years ago, to this very moment. You made that happen, and made it all worthwhile.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
*Specifications*
  

*Gain:* 1X (0db) and 3X (10db), hot switchable from front panel to adjust for different headphones
*Maximum Power:* ~1.5W into 50R
*Inputs:* 1 x XLR  (Bal); 1 x  RCA; 1 x 3.5mm - front panel selectable; RCA and 3.5mm are the same input.
*Outputs:* 1 x 4-Pin XLR; 1 x TRS, 1 x RSA.
*THD:* 0.004% at 1kHz/500mW (4VRMS) into 32 ohms (resistive)
*Input Impedance:* ~10k
*Output Impedance:* ~0.12 ohm Balanced, ~0.08 ohm SE.
*Size:* 5" (W) x 7" (D) x 1.75" (H);12.7 cm (W) x 17.8 cm (D) x 4.5 cm (H)
*Weight:* 1 lb, 7 oz (0.7kg)
  
  
*Jude's Impressions from the CanJam SoCal 2015 Preview (Part II)*
  


Spoiler: YouTube Video (Cavalli segment at 23:28)



 
​
_*Cavalli Audio segment begins at 23:28._​ 
  



  
  
*Currawong's CanJam SoCal 2015 Preview Impressions*
  


Spoiler: YouTube Video



In the days leading up to CanJam SoCal 2015, our very own @Currawong got a chance to preview the Liquid Carbon.  Here's what he thought felt (deep in his loins):
 ​ ​



  
  
*Head-Fiers' CanJam SoCal 2015 Impressions*
  


Spoiler: LOTS OF QUOTED IMPRESSIONS AHEAD!



Since the Liquid Carbon prototype made its debut at CanJam SoCal 2015, quite a few impressions have been left over in that show's impressions thread.
  
 I've taken the liberty of quoting them here, so y'all won't have to wade through 50+ pages of posts about everything else.  Even then, the list of impressions (universally positive in tone) is quite extensive, so I've included them within a spoiler box.
  



umustbkidn said:


> This next item was a prototype (I did not catch the model, perhaps someone can add that later?). I got a little confused trying to hook up my cans and source to it (which ended up sounding rather trashy). The SQ of this model really exposed just how sad sounding that ipod nano really was, but I guess I never really had heard it sound that bad before. This model had a 1x and 3x output switch on the front, and the Beyers sounded much better with the 3x setting (I maxed the 1x setting and it wasn't loud enough for my taste). On the other hand, one of the flyers seemed to indicate that was probably something intended for IEM's (which makes sense). Anyway, this was a very nice amp, I remained suitably impressed.





  


stillhart said:


> - Cavalli Liquid Carbon and ... The portable... Are both awesome. Wow.





  


mikemercer said:


> too beat to write-up thus far
> STILL LISTENING!!
> 
> nu Cavalli - BIG thumbs up
> ...





  


moses1258 said:


> The Liquid Carbon was great too.





  


mikemercer said:


> Thus far - my favorite sound OVERALL from the show actually happened at my boyz place last night!!
> 
> (was lucky enough to be in on the brainstorming sesh on that w/ Alex and @warrenpchi +Frank I - cant tag him.. - but just telling him our thoughts on feature set and target price he might wanna hit IF POSSIBLE)
> 
> ...





  


odin412 said:


> Cavalli Liquid Carbon and Liquid Silicon: The smooth, liquid signature Cavalli sound in a more affordable package! I've lusted after a Liquid Gold for a while (it's expensive!), and these new amps have the same basic sound signature. Very nice!





  



chowmein83 said:


> After Mr. Speakers, I went to the Cavalli table. Seriously, anybody looking for high-end amps in my opinion really should just buy Alex Cavalli's stuff. Pretty much all of the amps I listened to (Liquid Crimson, Liquid Gold, Liquid Carbon, and that really small portable amp for IEMs) were excellent. All of them have just enough warmth to make it sound pleasant and in my opinion realistic, but still able to convey gobs of detail. The Liquid Carbon was especially impressive - I don't think I've ever heard my HE-400i driven to that level of sound quality (especially in balanced mode). I honestly can't believe that it's only going to cost $500 to $700, because it sounds like it's worth a lot more. And thanks to Alex Cavalli and all of the staff at Cavalli Audio for being really nice people, and thanks for their patience as I listened to the Liquid Carbon with my HE-400i for quite a long time, and for helping me find the cables so I could listen to my own smartphone as a transport.





  



chowmein83 said:


> Yep, the new Liquid Carbon (their smaller desktop amp) is supposedly only going to cost somewhere between $500 to $700. Much more reasonable than the thousands of dollars that their other amps cost. And it sounds amazing.





  


solitary man said:


> Very reasonable!!!! Now I really wish I had gone to the table even though I don't need an amp.





  


> Originally Posted by *reddog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Sweet I am definitely going to get the Liquid Carbon sometime this year.





  



reddog said:


> If the price holds out, the cavalli liquid carbon will be a great buy.





  


longbowbbs said:


> The new Cavalli Liquid Carbon (Transportable) and Liquid Silicon portable fed by the
> Hugo DAC. I concur with the comments they were fantastic. Affordable Cavalli? Can
> You say those words together? You can now!





   
 Quote:


abernardi said:


> As others mentioned, it was very difficult to really listen critically to anything, so it was especially hard to tell how good the Yggy sounded, or the Ether, or the HE-1000.  Though the Cavalli Carbon and Silicon were no brainers, they made themselves clearly known as excellent, even with the high noise level of the room, go figure.





  


jerseyd said:


> Cavalli amps were impressive, no question.





  


croccap said:


> Cavalli Liquid Carbon - A little better sounding than the Silicon, bit better depth of the sound stage. More versatile than the Silicon with more inputs, balanced outputs.  A great option for a desktop/transportable amp.  If it is gonna be 500-700, itl be a great value too.





  


mikemercer said:


> AND: Having a private sesh with the Cavallis at my boys place on Sat. night was AWESOME!!
> 
> 
> I thought the combo w/ my friends LCD-2 was my favorite synergistically - when I played the new D'Angelo record - _Black Messiah _ - Everything had a terrific leading-edge attack. There was TONS of air/dimensionality - the midband and lower mids were crysal clear. The voices were chesty and the whole sway of the record was sublime - the pacing...





  


leesure said:


> Alex Cavalli testing his new Liquid Carbon amp.
> 
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Carbon.  Small form factor...HUGE sound.  Fully balanced.  Price TBD, but I understand it will be sub $1000!





  


stillhart said:


> cotnijoe said:
> 
> 
> > For those that got the chance to listen to the Liquid Carbon, what was the setup they used running the amp in fully balanced?
> ...





  


matt8268 said:


> - *Cavalli Audio* – Listened to the Liquid Silicon portable amp, which sounded good, then tried the Liquid Carbon next to it, which sounded great. It was being sourced by the Hugo, and this combo really worked for me. It was hard to think about going back to the Silicon after hearing the Carbon.





  



stillhart said:


> chowmein83 said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, what do you mean by not fully balanced? As far as I understood, the Liquid Carbon does have a truly balanced design, and you could listen to the balanced output as long as you had something that could connect to the XLR output. I did this after borrowing an XLR cable for my HE-400i from Hifiman (thanks to Fang Bian and the crew at Hifiman for letting me do so!) and I thought it sounded excellent.
> ...





  


warrenpchi said:


> The Liquid Carbon is fully-balanced on the input side.  There are balanced inputs, as well as "single-ended" inputs that are outfitted with phase splitters.





  


chowmein83 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > The Liquid Carbon is fully-balanced on the input side.  There are balanced inputs, as well as "single-ended" inputs that are outfitted with phase splitters.
> ...





  


stillhart said:


> *Cavalli Audio* – We’ve all heard of Cavalli amps.  We’ve all dreamed of owning one.  Hearing that there was going to be a new sub-$1000 Cavalli amp was a pleasant surprise.  Hearing that it’s going to be $500-700, even more so.  Hearing that there’s also going to be an even cheaper portable was eye-popping.
> 
> So how were the *Liquid Silicon* and *Liquid Carbon*?  As good as you’d expect.  Not much more to say there.  This is a really big deal and I think there will be a lot of these sold.
> 
> By the way, it was wonderful meeting the man himself, Alex Cavalli.  He was like a proud papa showing off his newest creation and he really seemed to enjoy how excited everyone was about the new products, despite his obvious reserved nature.





  


currawong said:


> Before I do my write-up and catch up with PMs, a couple of things to note:
> 
> The Hugo being used with the Liquid Carbon was mine. I lent it to Alex as he was having issues getting the DACs he was using to work because he was missing a cable. Even though it wasn't balanced, I've not had any significant issues with phase splitters in amps (circuits that convert single-ended signals into balanced) affecting the sound so I suggested using it.





  


chowmein83 said:


> Thanks for lending the Hugo for use with the Liquid Carbon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





  


frank i said:


>





  


cotnijoe said:


> @Currawong did you mention that the liquid carbon has a phase splitter?





  



insidious meme said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know when the Cavalli Carbon going to be released?
> ...





  


longbowbbs said:


> whitemass said:
> 
> 
> > We're all Audio geeks.
> ...





  



jexby said:


> Wow the love for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon just keeps coming! Really makes me miss attending, hopefully LiqCarb is at RMAF.
> Would be even better to own one by then perhaps!?
> 
> Anyone with release date guesstimates or power specs?





  


bearfnf said:


> Yep,I put my name down for a liquid carbon. Is a very good amp. Very soon I believe Alex said a few weeks to a month?





  



currawong said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know when the Cavalli Carbon going to be released?
> ...





  


soundmanmike said:


> the cavalli amplifiers are my favorite of the component size amplifiers. i cant choose one i like over the others. can i have one of each please?





  


solitary man said:


> Even though I do not need a headphone amp, I wish I had tried the Cavalli Liquid Carbon desktop amp. The rumored price point for an amp of that reported quality is unheard of.





  


wotts said:


> *Cavalli *- Alex has two big winners on his hands: the Carbon and the Silicon.





  
  
*External Impressions and Show Reports*
  


Spoiler: Chris Martens and Lee Shelly






> _*From Chris Martens over at HiFi+:*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  


> _*From Lee Shelly over at The Audio Traveler:*_
> 
> 
> 
> ...





  
  
*Jude's More Recent Impressions*

  


jude said:


> goldendarko said:
> 
> 
> > Is it that good Jude? What other amps would you say it compares with? Don't really need one but have always wanted to hear a cavalli
> ...


 
  
  
*MattTCG's Impressions from the 2015 Music City (Nashville) Meet:*
  


matttcg said:


> I spent a couple of quality hours with the carbon today. The short answer is that I'm VERY happy that I've pre-ordered this amp. IMO It's one of the best SS amps out there up to the $1k mark. I auditioned it against some very good amps several Woo, Schiit and other Cavali amps. This may be the best $600 I've spent on audio.
> 
> Word to the wise, if you haven't pre-ordered and you need an amp you should be looking very seriously at the Carbon. Word #2,plan to balance your headphone if you want all the Cavali magic.
> 
> ...


----------



## x838nwy

Sorry if i'm a little bit slow, but does the Liquid Carbon have a battery pack inside? (They say it's transportable???)


----------



## dBel84

No battery. Just standard iec power input. I am guessing transportable due to size.


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## bmichels

*Wish it had a battery inside*, to make it "really" transportable... in the garden under the patio


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## AnakChan

Currawong has put up a video preview of Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon prototype :-


----------



## soundman414

anakchan said:


> Currawong has put up a video preview of Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon prototype :-




 $499!


----------



## DigitalFreak

Amos is right, for 499 that's a pretty sweet price for a Cavalli piece of gear. Finally, something from Cavalli that's halfway affordable for us Johnny Lunch Buckets.


----------



## uncola

currawong added some text to the video stating the price hasn't been determined yet!


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## soundman414

uncola said:


> currawong added some text to the video stating the price hasn't been determined yet!


 
 Anywhere near that; $599 or $699 and I would be extremely happy. When Jude said affordable, I was thinking $1500 or something. But this is way below my estimates.


----------



## SoundFreaq

Uncola is right, final pricing is still being set, but I can say these figures are in the ballpark!


----------



## elwappo99

soundfreaq said:


> Uncola is right, final pricing is still being set, but I can say these figures are in the ballpark!


 
  
 I'm also glad to see Cavalli's in this price bracket. I've always been very impressed with your gear, and look forward to chatting with Alex every meet. Very nice guy.
  
  
 I haven't seen any other information about this amp. Could you say a ballpark for release time?


----------



## Currawong

It is a very entertaining amp. I had a listen to the Liquid Crimson afterwards, which is a more high-end version of the same amp in presentation. 
  
 My bad about the $499. I heard that price and thought it was official when I should have checked. I gather the cost will depend on the cost of the case essentially.


----------



## ejong7

What are the main sound differences between the Crimson and the Carbon? Definitely tuning in to this.


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## elwappo99

ejong7 said:


> Wait so there's a Crimson as well? What are the differences between the Crimson and the Carbon? Definitely tuning in to this.


 
  
 The Crimson is a currently existing product: https://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=10
  
 Carbon is the new desktop balanced amplifier that Currawong showed in his video, and the "portable" amplifier is unnamed as of yet. I think somewhere it was mentioned Cavalli might run a naming contest for that unit.


----------



## zachawry

Just to confirm, what balanced outs will this amp offer? RSA and big XLR? 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Edit: Also, is the only balanced input the XLRs? It seems to be so. I'm interested in using this unit with my AK120II. I'm not sure, but I think that means there would be no feasible way of getting balanced signal out of my AK and into the Cavalli. 
  
 I guess I could just go mini to mini (3.5 mm) single-ended. Would that have significantly worse sound than a balanced connection? 
  
 Sorry for all the basic questions; I'm new at this and still trying to learn a lot.


----------



## warrenpchi

Hey everyone, just performed a bit of thread maintenance to minimize confusion.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 All of the posts in this thread *BEFORE* this post were moved over from the _"New Cavalli Audio Portable Amp officially in the works"_ thread.
  
 All of the posts in this thread AFTER this post are native to this new thread that is dedicated to the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

From the Cavalli Audio Facebook page:
  
  "Cavalli Audio had a great time and a strong presence at CanJam SoCal 2015! We unveiled two new amps to the lineup, the no-compromise and highly anticipated portable, and the Liquid Carbon, a small desktop amp, perfect for stashing away for a commute to the office. The portable will have the naming contest, “Silicon” was simply for show use.
  
 Both amps house the robust Cavalli sound, have fully discrete circuits, and very low noise floors - not to mention plenty of power on tap. Combine that with less than 1Ohm output impedance, and these amps are suitable for your most sensitive IEMs, all the way up to most of your full-size planars. Yes, the portable will indeed make sweet music with the LCD-X and others.
  
 More details on preorders, timing, and the naming contest coming soon! Stay tuned in."
  
https://www.facebook.com/CavalliAudio?fref=ts

  
  
 Thanks for starting this thread.  Can't wait for preorder details...


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## AxelCloris

After giving the Liquid Carbon a quick listen at SoCal CanJam I can say with certainty that I'll be getting in on the first production run. Man that was a killer sounding amp and an awesome deal for the price. I'd have to do some side by side comparison but initial impressions left me feeling that I could easily replace my Violectric V181 with the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

axelcloris said:


> After giving the Liquid Carbon a quick listen at SoCal CanJam I can say with certainty that I'll be getting in on the first production run. Man that was a killer sounding amp and an awesome deal for the price. I'd have to do some side by side comparison but initial impressions left me feeling that I could easily replace my Violectric V181 with the Liquid Carbon.




Some great first impressions from those that have been fortunate enough to audition the carbon. I will be putting down for one of these too. It ticks all the boxes for me.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

zachawry said:


> Just to confirm, what balanced outs will this amp offer? RSA and big XLR?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe you will need an adapter cable to use the A&K's 2.5mm balanced headphone out to the balanced input on the Liquid Carbon.  Until we see a firm layout of inputs and outputs, I wouldn't spend a dime on any interconnects...


----------



## zachawry

buttuglyjeff said:


> I believe you will need an adapter cable to use the A&K's 2.5mm balanced headphone out to the balanced input on the Liquid Carbon.  Until we see a firm layout of inputs and outputs, I wouldn't spend a dime on any interconnects...


 

 Yeah, I imagine, but I haven't seen any 2.5 mm to double-XLR connections, and I've done some looking. 
  
 Then again, even though the only balanced input for the prototype  was the balanced XLR, maybe there will be something like an RSA/ALO input in the final device. That would be really nice. 
  
 I'm relatively new to all this, but I really wish there weren't so many standards for connections.


----------



## zachawry

If the amp is so close to production, can we at least get a list of input/output ports? 
  
 I'm putting together a system right now, and I want to make sure it's compatible with the new Liquid Carbon, since I intend to get it eventually. 
  
 For example, on the video I think I see an RSA/ALO balanced output. Is that what it is? Can I be reasonably sure that output will be on the final model? 
  
 If so, I might want to change a custom cable order I have already submitted to an RSA/ALO termination.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

zachawry said:


> Yeah, I imagine, but I haven't seen any 2.5 mm to double-XLR connections, and I've done some looking.
> 
> Then again, even though the only balanced input for the prototype  was the balanced XLR, maybe there will be something like an RSA/ALO input in the final device. That would be really nice.
> 
> I'm relatively new to all this, but I really wish there weren't so many standards for connections.


 
  
 I know my buddy Brian at BTG Audio can make those, and many others custom cable makers can too.  I'm kinda in the same boat as I will want to use my Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo db as the DAC for the Liquid Carbon, which would mean I'd need an RSA to dual XLR, as I see it so far.  So, I'd be a fan of an RSA input to go along with the output I already see on there....


----------



## Stillhart

This amp was really impressive sounding.  The LC with the Chord Hugo was one of the best sounding setups I heard at the show (along with the Yggy/Rag, LAu/Vega, and ALO CDM).


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## runeight

The jacking has gone through several iterations and we are getting close to a final configuration. Please keep in mind that the amp is fairly small and it's not possible to accommodate every single useful jack. There will have be some tradeoffs which try to cover the maximum possible arrangements.
  
 Input: Standard XLR input (L,R) balanced. 3.5mm and RCA SE. SE is converted to balanced inside the amp. I don't believe you will hear much difference although I always prefer to go balanced in if possible.
  
 Output: 4 Pin XLR and RSA (Kobiconn connector) balanced. 1/4" TRS SE. And remember that when you are using the SE out you are only using half of each amplifier on each channel. This reduces the power output.
  
 There is almost no room left on the front for another jack. There might be room to squeeze a 3.5mm TRRS jack on the back, but it will be just barely if I can.
  
 I have made RSA to XLR adaptors for using my Solo. It's a bit of a pain, but I would guess that a custom cable manuf would have these or could make them fairly easily.


----------



## zachawry

runeight said:


> The jacking has gone through several iterations and we are getting close to a final configuration. Please keep in mind that the amp is fairly small and it's not possible to accommodate every single useful jack. There will have be some tradeoffs which try to cover the maximum possible arrangements.
> 
> Input: Standard XLR input (L,R) balanced. 3.5mm and RCA SE. SE is converted to balanced inside the amp. I don't believe you will hear much difference although I always prefer to go balanced in if possible.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply! 
  
 I would prefer a smaller option for balanced input like the RSA, but I'm grateful for your response. 
  
 I'm unclear about one thing: Even if I use SE input like the 3.5 mm, I can still get balanced out? I thought that SE input always resulted in SE output. 
  
 Thanks for any clarification.


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## runeight

The RSA connector is convenient, but it is not as universal as standard XLR connectors. Using XLRs will most likely make connections easy for the largest number of people.
  
 Yes, even if you use 3.5mm SE or RCA SE, the amp will convert the SE signal to a balanced signal before sending it on to the amp sections. Since each amp section is now being driven with a balanced signal, they will provide the full balanced out.


----------



## Cryok95

When is the expected production date/time frame? I know pre-orders will be in a few weeks.

Very excited for this amp.


----------



## dusk

will the liquid carbon have balanced in?
  
 I'm thinking about grabbing a hugo TT as a preamp/dac and then running this out to the carbon.. or something similar.


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## runeight

Yes, it has balanced in through 2 XLR connectors.
  
 CryoK95, we are not exactly sure of release day, but based on all previous runs of Cavalli amps, I would guess about end of Summer.


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## zachawry

runeight said:


> Yes, it has balanced in through 2 XLR connectors.
> 
> CryoK95, we are not exactly sure of release day, but based on all previous runs of Cavalli amps, I would guess about end of Summer.


 
  
 Thanks for being upfront about everything, from the layout to the tentative schedule. Now I know to get something to tide me over, and I can get in line for a Carbon without having to be desperate for it to arrive.


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## runeight

Oh, someone asked about the size. The proto is 5" wide x 6.75" deep x 1.7" tall including the feet.
  
 These dimensions may change a little, but I wouldn't expect any significant change. This proto is about the third of fourth iteration and its size is pretty stable now. I don't know exactly what it weighs, but it is extremely light and easy to throw into a backpack or a carrying case.


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## thomascrown

does it work with both voltages? 
  
 Thanks!


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## runeight

I think you mean line/mains voltages??
  
 If so, it has a universal SMPS in it so it will work anywhere from 85VAC to 250VAC, just like most walwarts and power bricks. Except that the PS is inside the amp. All you will need is a proper power cord for your location.


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## thomascrown

runeight said:


> I think you mean line/mains voltages??
> 
> If so, it has a universal SMPS in it so it will work anywhere from 85VAC to 250VAC, just like most walwarts and power bricks. Except that the PS is inside the amp. All you will need is a proper power cord for your location.


 
 That's good news, thanks! Yes I meant the main voltage, I travel a lot and buying a power chord isn't really a big deal, carrying a 3kg power transformer it is.


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## FredrikT92

Do you ship to Norway?


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## runeight

We ship anywhere in the world, except US restricted countries.


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## Stillhart

This maybe isn't a question for this thread, but I find the SE->balanced thing to be really interesting.  Is it a feature that's unique to this amp, or to this price point?  I haven't heard of it before, but that's likely my fault...


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## conquerator2

Subbed


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## runeight

stillhart said:


> This maybe isn't a question for this thread, but I find the SE->balanced thing to be really interesting.  Is it a feature that's unique to this amp, or to this price point?  I haven't heard of it before, but that's likely my fault...


 
  
 The SE vs. Bal thing has been around just about forever. Balanced signals were first used in early telephone lines because balanced signals have, what is called, high common mode rejection. Basically, what this means is that any noise picked up on long telephone lines is cancelled out at the receiving/repeater amp. Bal is also common in studio equipment for the same reasons. SE has been used for almost all HiFi/Stereo gear simply because it's cheaper to build.
  
 However, not every amp makes both modes of operation possible or available. Most balanced amps do offer some form of SE operation either at the input or the output or both. For the output this is because it's usually easy to obtain a single ended output from a balanced amp although with some possible reduction in performance.
  
 Since the Carbon is fully balanced and since many owners might have a single ended source or headphones terminated TRS we added this capability. In the Carbon hardly anything is lost using the SE input because it splits the signal to balanced. At the output, however, the power output is reduced simply because in SE mode it only uses half of each amp.


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## Stillhart

Thanks, @runeight.  I was more interested in its ability to accept a SE input but still run "fully balanced".  My understanding is that it's not "fully balanced" unless it's fed a balanced DAC signal as well.  I'm curious if that's something that's unique to Cavalli.


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## runeight

It is not unique to me, but I like to provide this feature in my balanced amps. So the Liquid Gold, Liquid Lightning, and Carbon all have SE inputs that convert to balanced.
  
 Yes, the entire system is not fully balanced unless all the pieces are, so Bal source, Bal inputs, Bal headphone wiring.
  
 However, if the SE source is a good one, using the SE split input can be as good. At CanJam,, the Hugo was plugged into the SE inputs and I'm pretty sure that no one noticed.


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## Stillhart

runeight said:


> It is not unique to me, but I like to provide this feature in my balanced amps. So the Liquid Gold, Liquid Lightning, and Carbon all have SE inputs that convert to balanced.
> 
> Yes, the entire system is not fully balanced unless all the pieces are, so Bal source, Bal inputs, Bal headphone wiring.
> 
> However, if the SE source is a good one, using the SE split input can be as good. At CanJam,, the Hugo was plugged into the SE inputs and I'm pretty sure that no one noticed.


 
  
 Yes, I heard it with the Hugo and it's one of the main reasons I'm here right now.


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## Cryok95

runeight said:


> It is not unique to me, but I like to provide this feature in my balanced amps. So the Liquid Gold, Liquid Lightning, and Carbon all have SE inputs that convert to balanced.
> 
> Yes, the entire system is not fully balanced unless all the pieces are, so Bal source, Bal inputs, Bal headphone wiring.
> 
> However, if the SE source is a good one, using the SE split input can be as good. At CanJam,, the Hugo was plugged into the SE inputs and I'm pretty sure that no one noticed.




Sounds awesome man. Any chance of coming out with your own balanced DAC to complement the liquid carbon? I'm sure many would be interested in having a full cavalli balanced setup.


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## ButtUglyJeff

I bet the Hugo and Carbon would stack nicely together too.  They seem to be close in size...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Just out of curiosity, what DACs did you use when developing the Liquid Carbon?  It would be a great frame of reference.  If the noise floor is as low that's been implied, then I guess the DACs used were quite outstanding as well?


----------



## runeight

I used several different classes of DACs just to get a range of sounds. I have Resolution Audio Cantata DACs which are extremely good, but better for systems more tolerant of some noise. So I heard their noise but was able to get a sense of great sound from them.
  
 I also used CypherLabs AlgoRhythm Solo. This is a good mid-range DAC with a balanced out. Then I used an iFi Nano. A good lower range DAC/headphone amp. Then there were the two DACs at the show, the Hugo Chord and the GeekOut. These were lent to us by several individuals from the LA area.
  
 However, I don't really voice my amps to anything in particular. The main goal is to make them as transparent and neutral as possible while still retaining musicality (that quality that makes you want to tap your feet and snap your fingers and just get lost in the music).


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> However, I don't really voice my amps to anything in particular. The main goal is to make them as transparent and neutral as possible while still retaining musicality (that quality that makes you want to tap your feet and snap your fingers and just get lost in the music).




I never let myself believe that the cavalli sound was going to be within my reach... Very, very excited.


----------



## XERO1




----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> Then there were the two DACs at the show, the Hugo Chord and the GeekOut.




How did you find the Geek Out pairing with the Carbon? Which do you think would be more suitable, a 1.3vrms GO100 or a 4vrms GO1000?


----------



## Stillhart

vhsownsbeta said:


> How did you find the Geek Out pairing with the Carbon? Which do you think would be more suitable, a 1.3vrms GO100 or a 4vrms GO1000?


 
  
 They actually used the Geek Pulse, not the Geek Out (IIRC).  I only heard it with the Hugo.
  
 The DAC implementations between the GO's are the same and the only difference is the amp.  Since you'll be bypassing the amp, getting the cheapest one you can, which would be the 450.
  
 EDIT - Corrected which was cheapest.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> They actually used the Geek Pulse, not the Geek Out (IIRC).  I only heard it with the Hugo.
> 
> The DAC implementations between the GO's are the same and the only difference is the amp.  Since you'll be bypassing the amp, getting the cheapest one you can, which would be the 100.


 
  
 Cheapest is the 450. The 100 is specialized for IEMs and sensitive headphones. It's only slightly less than the 1000.
 Like Stillhart I heard the Liquid Carbon running off of the Hugo, so I can't speak to the Pulse pairing.


----------



## jexby

Very excited reading all the positive impressions, and eager to buy a Liquid Carbon ASAP!
Subbed and waiting to jump in line,


----------



## vhsownsbeta

I realise the DAC implementation will be the same and I am pretty happy with the Geek Out as a source (that said, I don't really have a higher end point of reference - ignorance is bliss...) I was referring to the optimal line out vrms for the Carbon.

1.3v for GO100, 2.6v for 450, 4.0v for 1000...

I have a GO100 but the 1000 is potentially pretty cheap atm on that other site...


----------



## sathyam

I am super excited to get this Cavalli amp for my office setup along with my AK240. Will this amp work with IEMs, without the usual buzzing noise floor, expected from powerful portable amps (like the ALO Rx Mk3 B)? Or is this only for full sized headphones?


----------



## bearFNF

sathyam said:


> I am super excited to get this Cavalli amp for my office setup along with my AK240. Will this amp work with IEMs, without the usual buzzing noise floor, expected from powerful portable amps (like the ALO Rx Mk3 B)? Or is this only for full sized headphones?



with my roxannes in se there was some noise. but with parallel iems that Alex had for demo it was dead quiet.


----------



## randomx

Oh man. I've been toying with having my AKG K701s converted for balanced operation since I picked up a Music Hall dac25.3 a while back, but I held off due to the difficulty of finding a reasonably priced balanced amp. With the Liquid Carbon on the horizon, think I should finally take the plunge?


----------



## warrenpchi

Hey y'all, I quoted over a bunch of Liquid Carbon impressions from the CanJam SoCal 2015 impressions thread... so you don't have to wade through 50+ pages of impressions about everything under the sun.  It's all in the first post:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-mini-desktop-amp


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> Hey y'all, I quoted over a bunch of Liquid Carbon impressions from the CanJam SoCal 2015 impressions thread... so you don't have to wade through 50+ pages of impressions about everything under the sun.  It's all in the first post:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-mini-desktop-amp


 
  
 Dang, that's a lot of quotes!  You must really like this one!


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Hey y'all, I quoted over a bunch of Liquid Carbon impressions from the CanJam SoCal 2015 impressions thread... so you don't have to wade through 50+ pages of impressions about everything under the sun.  It's all in the first post:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-mini-desktop-amp
> ...


 
  
 Lol, they're all your quotes guys... I have yet to contribute impressions of my own.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The amp does sound amazeballs though, so I'll be ordering just like y'all as soon it's available.


----------



## warrenpchi

Updated first post with backstory behind the Liquid Carbon.  Still awaiting specs, which I'll post as soon as I get them.


----------



## sealykojac

I've been really happy with my Oppo HA-1 but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be joining team Cavalli with the launch of this amp. I'd love to reclaim some of my desk back..


----------



## Stillhart

> The retail price for this initial production run will be substantially discounted


 
  
 My ears just perked up and faced forward.  This should be interesting!


----------



## jexby

stillhart said:


> My ears just perked up and faced forward.  This should be interesting!


 
  
 whoa!
 is that from their facebook page or ?
  
 ordering the Liquid Carbon is starting to feel like a california gold rush!


----------



## Stillhart

jexby said:


> whoa!
> is that from their facebook page or ?
> 
> ordering the Liquid Carbon is starting to feel like a california gold rush!


 
  
 No, it's from the backstory that Warren posted.last night, direct quote from Mr. (Dr?) Cavalli.


----------



## ejong7

To those who heard this with the Geek Pulse setup:
  
 Is the Carbon paired with the vanilla, fi , xfi, inifnity? And how's the pairing compared to the amp of the pulse itself? Interested in getting this to pair with my infinity.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Well, I'm hiding money away to be on the first order.  The funny/sad part is Moon Audio will most likely be getting as much money as Dr Cavalli.  Oh the cabling I will want....


----------



## XERO1

_Quoted from an email from Alex Cavalli_: 





> The Liquid Carbon was designed to be fully discrete, small, lightweight (transportable), and to deliver modest but useful power (1500mW @50R).


 
  
 1.5W into 50 Ohms is _*far*_ beyond a modest amount of power!
  
 This thing is going to be a little beast!!


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> jexby said:
> 
> 
> > whoa!
> ...


 
  
 Yup, directly from email!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


xero1 said:


> _Quoted from an email from Alex Cavalli_:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, well we are talking about the man behind the LAu, so I think it's safe to say that his definition of modest is just a wee bit different from ours.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've also requested full technical specifications of the unit, or at least of the prototype, and I expect to receive them soon.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

xero1 said:


> This thing is going to be a little beast!!


----------



## Pirakaphile

Everyone's freaking out because of the price point, and at $500-$700, I might think about investing if the price point for a used one is acceptable. Here's to hoping that people will be willing to sell theirs! 
  
 Either that, or someone who lives in Kansas needs to get one. Or loan me one forever. Or I need to work my normal job, and then get another job just to pay for audio.


----------



## AxelCloris

pirakaphile said:


> Everyone's freaking out because of the price point, and at $500-$700, I might think about investing if the price point for a used one is acceptable. Here's to hoping that people will be willing to sell theirs!
> 
> Either that, or someone who lives in Kansas needs to get one. Or loan me one forever. Or I need to work my normal job, and then get another job just to pay for audio.


 
  
 I personally wouldn't put much a whole lot of hope into people selling them.  You'll probably have a couple of members who receive the Liquid Carbon and find that it doesn't synergize with their particular setup, but the working prototype at CanJam was absolutely phenomenal. I expect it to be some time before they start showing up in the sale threads.


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> I personally wouldn't put much a whole lot of hope into people selling them.  You'll probably have a couple of members who receive the Liquid Carbon and find that it doesn't synergize with their particular setup, but the working prototype at CanJam was absolutely phenomenal. I expect it to be some time before they start showing up in the sale threads.


 
 Well, I'm expecting to start actually experimenting with different setups in about a decade, so, do you think that'll be long enough?  Now that I've got the HE-500, I'm not going to be getting any more headphones until after my speaker setup is complete. That is, my Magnepan 3.7 setup, which'll take about 6 years to fund when I increase my budget. 
 #firstworldproblems


----------



## lramirez1959

Is there a tentative schedule for the first run ? Can't wait for pairing it with my AK240


----------



## DVass13

Or, better yet, some sort of beta test like Schiit did with the Ragnarok.


----------



## lramirez1959

I just can't wait - Is there any estimate on dates ?


----------



## Stillhart

lramirez1959 said:


> I just can't wait - Is there any estimate on dates ?


 
  
 Just keep calm... and listen to the Beatles?


----------



## achristilaw

Finally a Cavalli an old cripple can afford......


----------



## lramirez1959

Soothing and warm !!!


----------



## lramirez1959

Couldn't express it better !!!


----------



## HPiper

I never thought I would ever be able to actually own a Cavalli amp. This is amazing. Going to start saving my nickles and dimes right now.


----------



## spurxiii

I'm on this hype train


----------



## vhsownsbeta

spurxiii said:


> I'm on this hype train


 

  
 Welcome aboard


----------



## XERO1

LOL!!!  Awesome.


----------



## reddog

Subbed.


----------



## MattTCG

This amp is certainly on my radar but tentatively so. I was equally excited about the EL-8. Trying to keep my excitement in check.


----------



## AxelCloris

matttcg said:


> This amp is certainly on my radar but tentatively so. I was equally excited about the EL-8. Trying to keep my excitement in check.


 
  
 Personally I find the Liquid Carbon more exciting than the EL8. I've heard both.


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> This amp is certainly on my radar but tentatively so. I was equally excited about the EL-8. Trying to keep my excitement in check.


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> Personally I find the Liquid Carbon more exciting than the EL8. I've heard both.


 
  
 Agreed.  And I'll just mention that I did try to tell people the EL-8 wasn't "all that" back in January but nobody wanted to listen.  The hype was too strong.


----------



## jexby

stillhart said:


> Agreed.  And I'll just mention that I did try to tell people the EL-8 wasn't "all that" back in January but nobody wanted to listen.  The hype was too strong.


 
  
 my ears were not able to try EL-8, yet I was listening to your (and others) constructive criticism of EL-8, 
 despite some higher-profile reviewers/bloggers (and others) going ape.
  
 my wallet thanks you!


----------



## thomascrown

stillhart said:


> Agreed.  And I'll just mention that I did try to tell people the EL-8 wasn't "all that" back in January but nobody wanted to listen.  The hype was too strong.


 
 Probably because your opinion just counts as everyone else's. It's not the hype.


----------



## MattTCG

What is the projected release date and price estimation on the Carbon if any?


----------



## AxelCloris

jexby said:


> my ears were not able to try EL-8, yet I was listening to your (and others) constructive criticism of EL-8,
> despite some higher-profile reviewers/bloggers (and others) going ape.
> 
> my wallet thanks you!


 
  
 You may like them, I know of several people who do. But for me there's something that just felt... off. I don't know what it is because I didn't spend time trying to figure out what it was. Definitely demo a pair before buying if you can.


----------



## joeexp

axelcloris said:


> You may like them, I know of several people who do. But for me there's something that just felt... off. I don't know what it is because I didn't spend time trying to figure out what it was. Definitely demo a pair before buying if you can.


 

 On now we are completely off topic  ...


----------



## jexby

indeed, apologies for my step in that direction.
  
 back to LiqCarb:
  
 is their official announcement vehicle (specs, pre-orders, etc) going to be the Cavalli Facebook page?
 hoping not, i refuse to partake in the FB.


----------



## reddog

The Cavalli Liquid Carbon really has me intrigued. I do not have a actual need for it but I always wanted a working mans Cavalli amp. And the fact this baby is fully balanced, is icing on the cake. I wonder how the Gungnir dac sounds with the Cavalli Carbon?


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> And the fact this baby is fully balanced, is icing on the cake. I wonder how the Gungnir dac sounds with the Cavalli Carbon?


 
  
 hey now!  why do you think I just bought a Gungnir yesterday?




  
 well, in addition to needing a home DAC until Pulse X Infinity arrives....


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> hey now!  why do you think I just bought a Gungnir yesterday?
> :rolleyes:
> 
> well, in addition to needing a home DAC until Pulse X Infinity arrives....



Sweet, I will end up ordering the Gungnir later this year. I already have saved up for the Yggdrasil, to go with my Rag, But the Cavalli Carbon will need its own dedicated amp lol. This hobby is most hazardous to my wallet lol.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

matttcg said:


> What is the projected release date and price estimation on the Carbon if any?


 
  
 Most everything is speculative.
  
 Release is speculated as summertime...
 Price is speculative between $500 and $700...
  
 The good doctor did state he was planning something special for the people ordering the first run.


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> Most everything is speculative.
> 
> Release is speculated as summertime...
> Price is speculative between $500 and $700...
> ...


 
 Which is why I'm going to jar a hug and mail him back the box.  The only bad bit is the fact that spring just started, so summer is too many months away.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pirakaphile said:


> Which is why I'm going to jar a hug and mail him back the box.  The only bad bit is the fact that spring just started, so summer is too many months away.


 
  
 I'm kinda hoping he starts taking orders sooner, then later, even if shipping isn't until late summer or even fall.  I just want to get my place in line, and I'm not one of those people who gets angry for having to wait for something new.  I was a good boy waiting 9 months for my HiFi-M8.....


----------



## Insidious Meme

No headphones needed for me. Between this and another amp for me. Hope to get a chance to listen to both together down the road.


----------



## mjock3

subscibed


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm kinda hoping he starts taking orders sooner, then later, even if shipping isn't until late summer or even fall.  I just want to get my place in line, and I'm not one of those people who gets angry for having to wait for something new.  I was a good boy waiting 9 months for my HiFi-M8.....


 
 You just want to feel like you've got something coming, huh?


----------



## Pirakaphile

Crud, I'm gonna have to get a balanced cable for the HE-500 so I can see what the whole balanced audio thing is about. And get the full power of this amp so the HiFiMANs can behave as rambunxiously as they can.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Crud, I'm gonna have to get a balanced cable for the HE-500 so I can see what the whole balanced audio thing is about. And get the full power of this amp so the HiFiMANs can behave as rambunxiously as they can.


 
  
 The difference between balanced and SE with my HE-560 on my NFB-28 is not trivial.  (Yes, the balanced output has double the power, but the SE is still 4W, more than enough to drive the 560).  I recommend going balanced on the Hifiman's for sure.


----------



## Pirakaphile

The on





stillhart said:


> The difference between balanced and SE with my HE-560 on my NFB-28 is not trivial.  (Yes, the balanced output has double the power, but the SE is still 4W, more than enough to drive the 560).  I recommend going balanced on the Hifiman's for sure.



Only bad thing is I'm going to end up wanting balanced everything, so the Yggy and Mjolnir will prolly end up on my desk. Even though I'll be spending more money, it'll be getting me an even higher-fi setup than I had planned. And why not? I like the low noise floor of SS.  Only extra expenditures I'll be needing to make will be balanced interconnects and balanced HD-650 cables.


----------



## warrenpchi

> Originally Posted by *Pirakaphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Only bad thing is I'm going to end up wanting balanced everything


 
  
 Lol, I'm missing the part where this is a bad thing?


----------



## Pirakaphile

W





warrenpchi said:


> Lol, I'm missing the part where this is a bad thing?



The bad thing is when friends, family, and girlfriend ask how much they cost. And then I take 2/3 of the price off and they still give me weird looks. 
I'm frugal when it comes to clothes, food, and anything recreational. Hifi is my only hobby, and I'm thankful for that, because I wouldn't be able to afford anything else!


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> The on
> Only bad thing is I'm going to end up wanting balanced everything, so the Yggy and *Mjolnir *will prolly end up on my desk. Even though I'll be spending more money, it'll be getting me an even higher-fi setup than I had planned. And why not? I like the low noise floor of SS.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You mean Yggy and Liquid Carbon?


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> You mean Yggy and Liquid Carbon?  :eek:



Gotta have both, if not for the pleasing Schiit aesthetic, than as another amp that'll compete daily with the Carbon. 

.. And I need the pre-amp outs for myfuture speaker amp.


----------



## warrenpchi

pirakaphile said:


> W
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ah yes, well, like I tell my wife... this is my hobby, and it's a relatively harmless one.  It's not like I'm out drinking and whoring with the fellas.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Though, I would imagine that such a thing is not an option for you given your location.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pirakaphile said:


> The on
> Only bad thing is I'm going to end up wanting balanced everything, so the Yggy and Mjolnir will prolly end up on my desk. Even though I'll be spending more money, it'll be getting me an even higher-fi setup than I had planned. And why not? I like the low noise floor of SS.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You don't have to do it all at once.  Yes, I'd get a balanced cable as soon as you could.  But, don't feel pressured to need a balanced DAC on day one of owning the Liquid Carbon.  The Hugo isn't balanced, and just about everyone loved it paired with this amp.
  
 Let your budget make this more a journey, then a sprint.  Enjoy the stages...


----------



## XERO1

The balanced output of any fully-balanced headphone amp is where you are going to get the vast majority of the improvement that a balanced amp provides.
  
 In my experience, and all things being equal, using the balanced input on the amp gives you only a relatively small improvement when compared to the major improvement that the balanced output can provide.


----------



## Insidious Meme

xero1 said:


> The balanced output of any fully-balanced headphone amp is where you are going to get the vast majority of the improvement that a balanced amp provides.
> 
> In my experience, and all things being equal, using the balanced input on the amp gives you only a relatively small improvement when compared to the major improvement that the balanced output can provide.




If this is the case, then cool. I'm not in the mode to worry about system balanced everything. Just to use my he 560 with the balanced cable.


----------



## runeight

xero1 said:


> The balanced output of any fully-balanced headphone amp is where you are going to get the vast majority of the improvement that a balanced amp provides.
> 
> In my experience, and all things being equal, using the balanced input on the amp gives you only a relatively small improvement when compared to the major improvement that the balanced output can provide.


 
  
 I would say that this is mostly true and depends on the particular amp.
  
 In case of the Carbon, it has a phase splitter at the SE input so that both halves of each channel are driven. This maintains the full power output in SE mode. Without the phase splitter, whether the balanced amp is truly differential or bridged, the power output does go down to 1/4 the balanced power.
  
 We included the phase splitter so that those of you who couldn't or didn't want to get a balanced source right away could still have full power from the amp and would not be any more limited than others with the headphones you could drive.


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> Ah yes, well, like I tell my wife... this is my hobby, and it's a relatively harmless one.  It's not like I'm out drinking and whoring with the fellas.     Though, I would imagine that such a thing is not an option for you given your location.



You'd be surprised how many whores we had down here.. However, not surprisingly, there are more of them then there are headphone amps!


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> You don't have to do it all at once.  Yes, I'd get a balanced cable as soon as you could.  But, don't feel pressured to need a balanced DAC on day one of owning the Liquid Carbon.  The Hugo isn't balanced, and just about everyone loved it paired with this amp.
> 
> Let your budget make this more a journey, then a sprint.  Enjoy the stages...



Yeah, I'm gonna be taking my time with it all, due to budget and frugality, but I'll be enjoying it, don't you worry.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I tho





runeight said:


> I would say that this is mostly true and depends on the particular amp.
> 
> In case of the Carbon, it has a phase splitter at the SE input so that both halves of each channel are driven. This maintains the full power output in SE mode. Without the phase splitter, whether the balanced amp is truly differential or bridged, the power output does go down to 1/4 the balanced power.
> 
> We included the phase splitter so that those of you who couldn't or didn't want to get a balanced source right away could still have full power from the amp and would not be any more limited than others with the headphones you could drive.



I thought I remembered reading something about how SE cut power down by 1/2 earlier in the thread.. Either I'm hallucinating again (I would never rule that out) or you've already made design improvements since then. 
Horray for design improvements?!


----------



## runeight

Ok folks, as promised at CanJam LA, we are very happy to announce that our new fully-discrete, fully-balanced, transportable headphone amp - the *Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon* - will soon be available for purchase!
  
 In keeping with our promise of wanting to offer this no-compromise amplifier at a substantially-discounted price, we are releasing the first (_and possibly only_) batch of Liquid Carbon amplifiers for $599 USD.
  
*To keep this opportunity fair for everyone in the community, this limited production run of 500 amps will be made available to everyone beginning at High Noon (12:00p), Texas Time (CDT), on Tuesday, April 14th, 2015.*
  
 That will be the time when anyone (and everyone) can place orders.  There are no reserved spots for reviewers or VIPs.  It will be first-come, first-served to any and all in the community.  That's why we're announcing the opening of orders, so that everyone is aware beforehand.
  
 If there are future runs, we will probably have to adjust price to better reflect cost.  It's possible that this could be in the range of $799, although this decision is reserved for later. Right now the focus will be on getting this run out on time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We'll begin production as soon as possible after the first 200 orders have been received, and expect the first units to begin shipping approximately 4 months later.
  
 Thanks, very much for everyone's interest in our new amp.    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Alex Cavalli,
 Cavalli Audio


----------



## vhsownsbeta




----------



## jexby

So excited to repeatedly hit Refresh on my browser Tuesday morning!!


----------



## XERO1

runeight said:


> In keeping with our promise of wanting to offer this no-compromise amplifier at a substantially-discounted price, we are releasing the first (_and possibly only_) batch of Liquid Carbon amplifiers for _*$599 USD.*_


 
  














  
  
  


runeight said:


> We'll begin production as soon as possible after the first 200 orders have been received, and expect the first units to _*begin shipping *__*approximately 4 months later.*_


----------



## alreadyused

Specifications *Size: *W 5” (12.7cm) D 7” (17.8cm) H 1.75” (4.5cm)
*Weight: *1lb 7oz (0.7kg)
*Maximum Power: *Approximately 1.5W into 50R
*Gain:* 1X (0db) and 3X (10db), hot switchable from front panel to adjust for different headphones
*Inputs:* 1 x XLR  (Bal), 1 x  RCA, 1 x  3.5mm front panel selectable. RCA and 3.5mm are the same input.
*Outputs:* 4 Pin XLR,  1 x TRS , 1 RSA.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Ok folks, as promised at CanJam LA, we are very happy to announce that our new fully-discrete, fully-balanced, transportable headphone amp - the *Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon* - will soon be available for purchase!
> 
> In keeping with our promise of wanting to offer this no-compromise amplifier at a substantially-discounted price, we are releasing the first (_and possibly only_) batch of Liquid Carbon amplifiers for $599 USD.
> 
> ...



I have a feeling you'll be getting those first 200 orders in about ten minutes.  Thanks for letting us know a few days in advance, and thank you for allowing us to buy the amp at such a good price! I'll be hovering around your site for the next day and a half!


----------



## Insidious Meme

Alex, thanks for the heads up. But will your site be able to handle what's coming on Tuesday?


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> Ok folks, as promised at CanJam LA, we are very happy to announce that our new fully-discrete, fully-balanced, transportable headphone amp - the *Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon* - will soon be available for purchase!
> 
> In keeping with our promise of wanting to offer this no-compromise amplifier at a substantially-discounted price, we are releasing the first (_and possibly only_) batch of Liquid Carbon amplifiers for $599 USD.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up!  I've added a reminder to my calendar and a link to the current Liquid Carbon page.  Hopefully that's where we'll be able to order.  
  
 Four months will be a brutal wait.


----------



## Zocoyotzin

I was recently browsing Cavalli's site for some window shopping when I saw that the Liquid Carbon was actually listed in the store now. I almost became upset, thinking I somehow missed when the preorders went up, but then realized that there was no purchase option yet. So I came to this thread to find more info.

I have been interested in Cavalli's amps for a bit now and even though I can afford the Liquid Gold, I wouldn't call the purchase financially responsible. So when I first heard of the Liquid Carbon and its lower price range I started to keep an eye on it.

Now that its price has finally been stated, I am pretty excited and anxiously waiting for the preorders to go live!


----------



## runeight

insidious meme said:


> Alex, thanks for the heads up. But will your site be able to handle what's coming on Tuesday?


 
  
 I sure hope so.


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> Thanks for the heads up!  I've added a reminder to my calendar and a link to the current Liquid Carbon page.  Hopefully that's where we'll be able to order.
> 
> Four months will be a brutal wait.


 
  
 Yes, it's going to be pretty intense all the way around. Plus, when the portable comes out it will be doubly brutal.


----------



## runeight

Same post in sponsor announcements section:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Just.... YES


----------



## xuan87

Can I ask what is Cavalli Audio's international shipping policy, if you even have any? I couldn't find anything regarding that on the Cavalli webpage.


----------



## Jeff Y

I would love to pair this up with the Chord Hugo. Can anyone comment on the headphone outputs of the Hugo versus out of the Liquid Carbon's through the Hugo?
 Thank you.


----------



## yzhengyu

Dang. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It would be 1am where I am when the pre-orders open and I probably can't stay up that late to place the order. Let's hope not that many orders go in...


----------



## DigitalFreak

yzhengyu said:


> Dang.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not to rain on your hopes and dreams but dream on. Cavalli Audio is going get hit by a tsunami of people waiting to get their one of only 500 units.


----------



## reddog

digitalfreak said:


> Not to rain on your hopes and dreams but dream on. Cavalli Audio is going get hit by a tsunami of people waiting to get their one of only 500 units.



Lol well said sir.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

yzhengyu said:


> Dang.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 3am here. I am going to set my wife's alarm clock so she can't blame me for waking her up


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Personal checklist:
  
 - have laptop charged and waiting
 - remember that noon in Texas is 1pm Eastern Standard
 - move money to paypal
 - pray that demand matches volume


----------



## ejong7

Anybody know what's the rough shipping cost to the UK?


----------



## smial1966

Don't forget to factor in the VAT and duty collection charge! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


ejong7 said:


> Anybody know what's the rough shipping cost to the UK?


----------



## ejong7

smial1966 said:


>


 

 oh wow yeah that too. Seems like my Save My Wallet (SMW) Movement might actually backfire. Anybody willing to give a rough estimate for shipping and tax included for UK?


----------



## Pirakaphile

Paypal is the only way to go? Or are credit cards accepted?


----------



## AxelCloris

Thanks so much for doing this, Alex! I'll be sitting in front of my computer waiting for the time to click over to 1PM (EDT) tomorrow.


----------



## smial1966

Judging from other audio gear purchased from the USA, I'd estimate between $50 - $75 for shipping and then 30% of item cost ($599) for the tax duty. So around $60 for the latter. Add another $140 to the $599 to be on the safe side.




ejong7 said:


> oh wow yeah that too. Seems like my Save My Wallet (SMW) Movement might actually backfire. Anybody willing to give a rough estimate for shipping and tax included for UK?


----------



## runeight

xuan87 said:


> Can I ask what is Cavalli Audio's international shipping policy, if you even have any? I couldn't find anything regarding that on the Cavalli webpage.


 
  
 We ship anywhere either USPS EMS or Fedex.


----------



## runeight

pirakaphile said:


> Paypal is the only way to go? Or are credit cards accepted?


 
  
 We accept both Paypal and cards.


----------



## joeexp

300K coming your way soon! 
 I hope there are enough Carbons for everyone who is interested!
 Perhaps you should limit orders to one per person!


----------



## thomascrown

joeexp said:


> Perhaps you should limit orders to one per person!


 
 Well said!


----------



## reddog

joeexp said:


> 300K coming your way soon!
> I hope there are enough Carbons for everyone who is interested!
> Perhaps you should limit orders to one per person! :confused_face:







thomascrown said:


> Well said!



+1 Yes well said indeed ; on unit a person.


----------



## Pirakaphile

reddog said:


> +1 Yes well said indeed ; on unit a person.



But then how will I get enough of them to fund my tuition?!


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> But then how will I get enough of them to fund my tuition?!



Lol hmm the needs of the many out weigh the wants of the few, at least when it comes to audiophiles.


----------



## Pirakaphile

reddog said:


> Lol hmm the needs of the many out weigh the wants of the few, at least when it comes to audiophiles.



No such thing as 'need' when it comes to audio.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

pirakaphile said:


> No such thing as 'need' when it comes to audio.


 
 Yes there is! At least that's what I tell myself to justify purchasing a LAu...


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> +1 Yes well said indeed ; one unit a person.


 
  
 +1.  (or in this case, just 1 ha!)
 couldn't agree more.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pirakaphile said:


> No such thing as 'need' when it comes to audio.


 
  
  
 You don't belong here...


----------



## Stillhart

jeff y said:


> I would love to pair this up with the Chord Hugo. Can anyone comment on the headphone outputs of the Hugo versus out of the Liquid Carbon's through the Hugo?
> Thank you.


 

 They had it paired with the Chord Hugo at Canjam.  It sounded absolutely fantastic.  That's the setup I heard it on and why I'm ready to buy tomorrow.
  



joeexp said:


> 300K coming your way soon!
> I hope there are enough Carbons for everyone who is interested!
> Perhaps you should limit orders to one per person!


 
  
 Or at least one per order.  That way people who legitimately want more than one for more than one location can still get it, but they have to "wait in line" twice, giving others a chance.


----------



## mangler

pirakaphile said:


> I tho
> I thought I remembered reading something about how SE cut power down by 1/2 earlier in the thread.. Either I'm hallucinating again (I would never rule that out) or you've already made design improvements since then.
> Horray for design improvements?!


 
 I thought the the same thing, and I'm still confused because of the following statements:
  


runeight said:


> I would say that this is mostly true and depends on the particular amp.
> 
> In case of the Carbon, it has a phase splitter at the SE input so that both halves of each channel are driven.* This maintains the full power output in SE mode.* Without the phase splitter, whether the balanced amp is truly differential or bridged, the power output does go down to 1/4 the balanced power.
> 
> We included the phase splitter so that those of you who couldn't or didn't want to get a balanced source right away could still have full power from the amp and would not be any more limited than others with the headphones you could drive.


 


runeight said:


> The jacking has gone through several iterations and we are getting close to a final configuration. Please keep in mind that the amp is fairly small and it's not possible to accommodate every single useful jack. There will have be some tradeoffs which try to cover the maximum possible arrangements.
> 
> Input: Standard XLR input (L,R) balanced. 3.5mm and RCA SE. SE is converted to balanced inside the amp. I don't believe you will hear much difference although I always prefer to go balanced in if possible.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't doubt the Carbon does actually put out as much power in SE mode as it does balanced, but could @runeight please clarify the above statements for us non-techies?


----------



## bearFNF

I don't agree with the limit per person. With the fickleness that has been displayed here (Head-Fi, Ala black schiit) it is not a good idea to limit the number of units one can buy. Alex priced this with the expectation and need to sell them all as I understand from talking with him.


----------



## jexby

ok, how about "limit 1 per person during April 14,15,16 of the pre-order".
 after that, additional quantities available to any/all.
  
 this would at least prevent the rich guy ordering 50 Liquid Carbons tomorrow, and delay units from reaching Regular Joe ears in the early days of (eventual) shipping.


----------



## warrenpchi

jexby said:


> this would at least prevent the rich guy ordering 50 Liquid Carbons tomorrow, and delay units from reaching Regular Joe ears in the early days of (eventual) shipping.


 
  
 You mean someone like the Orpheus guy?  Here's the thing... if someone were being excessive like that, I would trust Dr. Cavalli to spot that when he reviews the orders.  I would also trust - by virtue of this amp being something he wanted to do for the community in the first place - that he'd do something to correct that (like extend the production run) should that occur.  In other words, it's a hypothetical situation, and I think that we should all jump off that bridge when we come to it, if we come to it.


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> You don't belong here...


 
 But do any of us really belong here? Because even though the musicians played the part in the studio for the purpose of getting it 'out there', did they really want us to be right there next to the microphone, listening to every note, feeling every emotion? Would they even look at you as they played, or would you disappear, never to contribute to the artwork that they created?


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> You mean someone like the Orpheus guy?  Here's the thing... if someone were being excessive like that, I would trust Dr. Cavalli to spot that when he reviews the orders.  I would also trust - by virtue of this amp being something he wanted to do for the community in the first place - that he'd do something to correct that (like extend the production run) should that occur.  In other words, it's a hypothetical situation, and I think that we should all jump off that bridge when we come to it, if we come to it.


 
 If some dude tries to do that, do we have permission to strangle them with oxygen free copper wires?


----------



## warrenpchi

pirakaphile said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > You mean someone like the Orpheus guy?  Here's the thing... if someone were being excessive like that, I would trust Dr. Cavalli to spot that when he reviews the orders.  I would also trust - by virtue of this amp being something he wanted to do for the community in the first place - that he'd do something to correct that (like extend the production run) should that occur.  In other words, it's a hypothetical situation, and I think that we should all jump off that bridge when we come to it, if we come to it.
> ...


 
  
 Lol, only if Litz.  We must maintain standards after all.


----------



## runeight

mangler said:


> I thought the the same thing, and I'm still confused because of the following statements:
> 
> 
> I don't doubt the Carbon does actually put out as much power in SE mode as it does balanced, but could @runeight please clarify the above statements for us non-techies?


 
  
 Each channel of a balanced amp has two amplifiers in it (so four actual amps for a two channel amp). The output is taken as the difference between the outputs of the two amps in one channel. This is using the balanced output.
  
 However, when you plug into the SE jack, because the headphone wiring is taking the signal from the output to ground, you can only use one of the amps in each channel. This is what I meant by half of each amp. You are only using 1 of the 2 amps in the channel because your phone connector and headphone wiring are forcing you to do that. There can be exceptions to this, such as a transformer output where the grounding is not an issue.
  
 When you use only one of the amps in the channel your maximum output voltage swing is no longer the difference between the two amps, but only the maximum swing that one amp can do. And since this maximum swing is, typically, half of the full balanced excursion, you only get 1/4 the power since power goes up as the square of the voltage.
  
 The amp doesn't really have a mode. That is, with either balanced or SE input (with internal phase splitter) it is always running fully balanced. The only difference is where you take the output from.
  
 If you use the balanced outs with balanced headphones you get the full performance of the amp. If you plug in to the SE TRS output you only use one amp in each channel and, while the output of the full channel stays the same, you are leaving 75% of it on the table, so to speak.
  
 The other advantage to using the balanced output is that the noise will be lower because of what's called common mode rejection of the PS noise.
  
 Let me know if this was useful.


----------



## runeight

Oh, I was writing while some of the order conversation was taking place.
  
 We are not going to restrict orders per customer, but we are going to monitor what's happening and adjust if necessary.
  
 I am very familiar with this problem. Trying to get tickets to a Rolling Stones concert many years ago. They did not limit tickets per person and so the first 50 people got all the tickets and the other 1000000000 people who had waited in line in the unbelievably hot Tucson summer sunshine walked away empty handed. I can tell you that those guys who immediately turned around to scalp those tickets as the rest of the people were dragging themselves away are lucky to be in one piece.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Each channel of a balanced amp has two amplifiers in it (so four actual amps for a two channel amp). The output is taken as the difference between the outputs of the two amps in one channel. This is using the balanced output.
> 
> However, when you plug into the SE jack, because the headphone wiring is taking the signal from the output to ground, you can only use one of the amps in each channel. This is what I meant by half of each amp. You are only using 1 of the 2 amps in the channel because your phone connector and headphone wiring are forcing you to do that. There can be exceptions to this, such as a transformer output where the grounding is not an issue.
> 
> ...


 
 So using the SE output takes the voltage down to about 350mA is what you're saying, but it's still balanced audio. Correct?


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Oh, I was writing while some of the order conversation was taking place.
> 
> We are not going to restrict orders per customer, but we are going to monitor what's happening and adjust if necessary.
> 
> I am very familiar with this problem. Trying to get tickets to a Rolling Stones concert many years ago. They did not limit tickets per person and so the first 50 people got all the tickets and the other 1000000000 people who had waited in line in the unbelievably hot Tucson summer sunshine walked away empty handed. I can tell you that those guys who immediately turned around to scalp those tickets as the rest of the people were dragging themselves away are lucky to be in one piece.


 
 Access granted to scalp Liquid Carbon hoarders!


----------



## runeight

pirakaphile said:


> So using the SE output takes the voltage down to about 350mA is what you're saying, but it's still balanced audio. Correct?


 
  
 Well, this depends on where the output level is set. But, let's say you're making 1W into a 50ohm balanced headphone. This translates into about 7V maximum excursion at the balanced output of one channel. Or about 140mA peak current.
  
 If you remove the headphones, swap their balanced 4 pin XLR connector for a TRS phone plug, and then plug back in to the TRS jack you will be in the "only using half the amp" situation. The maximum voltage will then be 3.5V and you will only get 1/4 the power. About 70mA peak current.
  
 Even though the amp is really operating in a fully balanced mode you have, essentially, limited it to SE operation into your headphones.
  
 The net of this is, if you want to get the best performance out of this beautifully balanced amp, terminate your headphones with real balanced connectors.


----------



## XERO1

runeight said:


> If you use the balanced outs with balanced headphones you get the full performance of the amp. If you plug in to the SE TRS output you only use one amp in each channel and, while the output of the full channel stays the same, you are leaving 75% of it on the table, so to speak.


 
  
 If I understand you correctly, I believe you are saying that even though the SE and BAL outputs will both output at the same volume level (or will the BAL output be the usual 6dB louder than the SE output?), the SE output will only have 1/4 of the total power that the BAL outputs have.  So the SE output will reach its clipping point (375mW at 50 Ohms) much sooner than the BAL outputs will (1500mW at 50 Ohms).  But clipping this amp will be very unlikely because even 375mW of power will easily drive just about any headphone to deafeningly loud volume levels, well beyond the point of audible distortion, and way before the amp ever begins to clip.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Well, this depends on where the output level is set. But, let's say you're making 1W into a 50ohm balanced headphone. This translates into about 7V maximum excursion at the balanced output of one channel. Or about 140mA peak current.
> 
> If you remove the headphones, swap their balanced 4 pin XLR connector for a TRS phone plug, and then plug back in to the TRS jack you will be in the "only using half the amp" situation. The maximum voltage will then be 3.5V and you will only get 1/4 the power. About 70mA peak current.
> 
> ...


 
 And since the HiFiMANs can use a lot of juice, I think I'll get some balanced cables for em. Thanks!


----------



## runeight

xero1 said:


> If I understand you correctly, I believe you are saying that even though the SE and BAL outputs will both output at the same volume level (or will the BAL output be the usual 6dB louder than the SE output?), the SE output will only have 1/4 of the total power that the BAL outputs have.  So the SE output will reach its clipping point (375mW at 50 Ohms) much sooner than the BAL outputs will (1500mW at 50 Ohms).  But clipping this amp will be very unlikely because even 375mW of power will easily drive just about any headphone to deafeningly loud volume levels, well beyond the point of audible distortion, and way before the amp ever begins to clip.


 
  
 The amp (one channel) will reach its clipping point when it does independently of where you're taking the output from. It's just that at that point the balanced output will be delivering 4 times more power than the SE output. If you are at 1.5W at the balanced out then, yes, 375mW from the SE out.
  
 375mW is a lot of power. Most of the time 1.5W is there for the dynamic peaks where you only need the juice temporarily. And, we can all hear when an amp has this headroom and when it doesn't. This is one reason why the Liquid Gold does so well with the Abyss headphones. It has lots of headroom for the transients (along with low Zo).


----------



## elwappo99

runeight said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > So using the SE output takes the voltage down to about 350mA is what you're saying, but it's still balanced audio. Correct?
> ...


 
  
 Although ultimately you'll get best performance by balancing your headphones, I think Cavalli Audio was kind to add the SE output as well.
  
 After having many balanced amplifiers, this is what I've found:
  
 Ultimately, if you find headphones you like, you'll want them balanced. However, balancing can be time consuming and/or expensive, depending on how the headphone is constructed. Having SE  (for me at least) means you can buy new headphones, swap headphones, or borrow someone's headphones and then try them out to see if you like them, before you commit to balancing them. So, thanks for adding that additional output! I know it's not an easy add-on.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

Sorry if this has been mentioned somewhere (I can't seem to find it) but do we know the output impedance?


----------



## runeight

Just about to ask Warren to post some data on the first post. Zo is about 0.120R for balanced and about 0.08R for SE.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> Just about to ask Warren to post some data on the first post. Zo is about 0.120R for balanced and about 0.08R for SE.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## reddog

Has anyone ever used the Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp to drive MrSpeakers Alpha Dog and Alpha Prime?


----------



## Barry S

This amp sounds interesting, but only a handful of people have heard a prototype. Can you please clarify the return policy for this product? The Cavalli web site specifies a 14 day return policy for _some _products. This would be reasonable for the Liquid Carbon, considering that these will all be sold before anyone has a chance to audition or even see the final product. Thanks.


----------



## warrenpchi

runeight said:


> Just about to ask Warren to post some data on the first post. Zo is about 0.120R for balanced and about 0.08R for SE.


 
  
 Done, first post updated!


----------



## runeight

barry s said:


> This amp sounds interesting, but only a handful of people have heard a prototype. Can you please clarify the return policy for this product? The Cavalli web site specifies a 14 day return policy for _some _products. This would be reasonable for the Liquid Carbon, considering that these will all be sold before anyone has a chance to audition or even see the final product. Thanks.


 
  
 Good question. The return policy for all current CA products is described in each manual. This is 30 days to return with a 30% restocking fee. The Liquid Carbon is, essentially, a built to order amplifier and will have the same policy. However, like all other amps it will also come with a warranty.


----------



## Barry S

runeight said:


> Good question. The return policy for all current CA products is described in each manual. This is 30 days to return with a 30% restocking fee. The Liquid Carbon is, essentially, a built to order amplifier and will have the same policy. However, like all other amps it will also come with a warranty.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## MattTCG

May I ask the specifics about the power supply used in this amp?


----------



## runeight

matttcg said:


> May I ask the specifics about the power supply used in this amp?


 
  
 It is a custom designed SMPS that provides +/-15V rails. What else would you like to know??


----------



## MattTCG

runeight said:


> It is a custom designed SMPS that provides +/-15V rails. What else would you like to know??


 
  
 Well, my concern is being able to implement a high quality PSU in such a small chasis where space is at a premium. Is this a PSU that you've used in other amps?


----------



## runeight

It is similar to a PSU used in other audio equipment, but never in mine until now. As for size, the PSU takes up almost the entire back half of the amp. Not quite, but close. The actual amp sections are small. Jude showed some photos in his pre-CanJam video.
  
 Its design is fairly standard.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I appreciate the information very much!!


----------



## zerodeefex

I am rooting for this amp to sell out in 5 minutes or less . I'm placing an order for two, one for me, one for CEE TEE. Perfect bedside size for my nightstand.


----------



## gr8soundz

Apologies for the simple question but, I've only seen pics of the amp so far and the spec sheet isn't final.
  
 Also, the liquid carbon in Jude's video has high and low 3.5mm outputs but the current pics show a 6.35mm one. I'm concerned that the input/output jacks could change again before release.
  
 I need to confirm that the rear balanced inputs and front balanced output (the larger one) are standard female 3-pin and 4-pin xlr?


----------



## runeight

The jacks on Jude's proto were an earlier version and my best guess at what I thought people would want. But after a fair amount of feedback we changed the jack configuration to what you see now and what was at CanJam. I don't expect that any jack that is on there now will go away. If possible, I may add one more, but space on the board is currently at a high premium.
  
 There are two 3 pin XLR jacks for the balanced in. There is one pair of RCA jacks for one of the SE inputs. There is one 3.5mm jack for the other SE in. The RCA and 3.5mm are connected together so there is really only one SE input and there is one balanced input, switchable at the front panel.
  
 There is one standard 4 Pin XLR balanced output jack. There is one RSA type balanced output jack. There is one 1/4" (6.35mm) Single Ended output jack.
  
 See discussions above for the difference in running Balanced out or SE out.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> The jacks on Jude's proto were an earlier version and my best guess at what I thought people would want. But after a fair amount of feedback we changed the jack configuration to what you see now and what was at CanJam. I don't expect that any jack that is on there now will go away. If possible, I may add one more, but space on the board is currently at a high premium.
> 
> There are two 3 pin XLR jacks for the balanced in. There is one pair of RCA jacks for one of the SE inputs. There is one 3.5mm jack for the other SE in. The RCA and 3.5mm are connected together so there is really only one SE input and there is one balanced input, switchable at the front panel.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the fast response.
  
 I'm planning to go balanced and get the most out of my future equipment but the list of balanced connectors keeps growing.
  
 Custom cables for each of my headphones would be too expensive so I plan to try some standard xlr adapters.
  
 Is there any risk of damage to the amp or headphones if the pin wiring isn't exact?


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the fast response.
> 
> I'm planning to go balanced and get the most out of my future equipment but the list of balanced connectors keeps growing.
> 
> ...


 
 Depending on how many cables you need, it might be cheaper (and more fun!) to get some soldering gear instead and make your own.  I started down that road recently and it's been very rewarding.  Now I look forward to getting new headphones with no balanced cable.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Depending on how many cables you need, it might be cheaper (and more fun!) to get some soldering gear instead and make your own.  I started down that road recently and it's been very rewarding.  Now I look forward to getting new headphones with no balanced cable.


 
  
 Still have a decent soldering gun but my soldering skills aren't quite what they were 20yrs ago.
  
 Just searching for creative ways to get balanced out from my PM-3 and Z7 without breaking the bank (Sony's balanced cable won't work with the carbon and haven't seen a dual 3.5mm to 4-pin xlr yet). That money will be going towards amps/headphones anyway.
  
 SE out is ok too (got a pure silver one for the Z7) but it'd be nice to go balanced if I can to maximize return on quality sound.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Still have a decent soldering gun but my soldering skills aren't quite what they were 20yrs ago.
> 
> Just searching for creative ways to get balanced out from my PM-3 and Z7 without breaking the bank (Sony's balanced cable won't work with the carbon and haven't seen a dual 3.5mm to 4-pin xlr yet). That money will be going towards amps/headphones anyway.
> 
> SE out is ok too (got a pure silver one for the Z7) but it'd be nice to go balanced if I can to maximize return on quality sound.


 
  
 If you have a balanced cable for the Z7, you could snip the ends and rewire it to XLR.  XLR is the easy mode soldering.  :-D


----------



## runeight

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the fast response.
> 
> I'm planning to go balanced and get the most out of my future equipment but the list of balanced connectors keeps growing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes there is. Sometimes the 4 Pin connector on headphones is wired for only 3 Pin operation (SE mode). This was more common a few years back, but still sometimes happens. What this does is to connect the negative outputs from the two balanced amps together thinking that they are the ground wires. This could damage the amps. Although if you don't run the volume too high everything can handle it for a while.
  
 If you stick with well understood adapters you shouldn't have any problems.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> If you have a balanced cable for the Z7, you could snip the ends and rewire it to XLR.  XLR is the easy mode soldering.  :-D


 
  
 Yeah, I thought of modding the stock balanced cable but (again, maybe I think too far ahead) wanted to keep it stock in case I get my hands on a Pono player or maybe even a cheap PHA-3 in the future.
  
 Wish I could spring for something like this:
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=171&zenid=ce80e4527ba576acd7f7c92b082d39c6
  




  
 But, at $350 for the basic set (doesn't have all the connectors I believe), I'm better off upgrading to a higher amp or headphone.


----------



## Insidious Meme

I'm curious how many people getting this amp have or will soon have a balanced ended headphone. Considering what Alex said earlier, it'd be wasted on single ended phones.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> Yes there is. Sometimes the 4 Pin connector on headphones is wired for only 3 Pin operation (SE mode). This was more common a few years back, but still sometimes happens. What this does is to connect the negative outputs from the two balanced amps together thinking that they are the ground wires. This could damage the amps. Although if you don't run the volume too high everything can handle it for a while.
> 
> If you stick with well understood adapters you shouldn't have any problems.


 
  
 Assuming I manage to get one of the carbon amps, here's the combo I'm thinking of trying with my Oppo PM-3:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Supertech-Premium-Compatible-Smartphones-computers/dp/B00PLTXJIU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8





  
 and something like this:
 http://www.btg-audio.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=162399926
  




  
 I realize it would be easier to just have a 3.5mm trrs to 4-pin xlr made for the PM-3 but my hope is, if this works, that I could use other headphones balanced in a similar way as long as I can get a 3.5mm trrs termination from them.


----------



## goldendarko

All of my headphones except the Oppo pm-3 are balanced, but that one doesn't require much juice. Balanced is the way to go for harder to drive headphones.


----------



## jexby

HE-560 with a balanced YFS Super30 Litz cable at the ready for a Liquid Carbon order.
 as long as zerodeefex doesn't snag them all first.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 har har


----------



## elwappo99

gr8soundz said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > If you have a balanced cable for the Z7, you could snip the ends and rewire it to XLR.  XLR is the easy mode soldering.  :-D
> ...


 
  
  
 Looks like the cable is a dual 3.5mm TRS termination? Sorry, I'm not super familiar with that headphone, so you'll have to confirm. It would be relatively easy to make a dual 3.5mm (female) adapter to 4 pin xlr, or RSA. Total cost for parts would be something like $20.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

I don't believe the Oppo PM-3 is internally wired for balanced.  Last I heard was that the cable jack in the left ear cup is just a 3 pin TRS connection and not a 4 pin connection that would allow for balanced.  The Oppo PM-1 and PM-2 can be easily converted to balanced with just a cable change (and Oppo sells the balanced cable to do that).  But the PM-3 isn't like that, as far as I know.
  
 I have a LCD-2 and Audeze sells a balanced cable for it for just $80.
 I also have a HE-560 and a Norne Audio adapter cable for it that allows me to use a balanced Audeze cable with it.


----------



## gr8soundz

elwappo99 said:


> Looks like the cable is a dual 3.5mm TRS termination? Sorry, I'm not super familiar with that headphone, so you'll have to confirm. It would be relatively easy to make a dual 3.5mm (female) adapter to 4 pin xlr, or RSA. Total cost for parts would be something like $20.


 
  
 Right, the Z7 stock is dual TRS.
  
 Any pics of such an adapter completed? (I've seen dual 3-pin xlr adapters). Post 'em or PM me if so.


----------



## elwappo99

gr8soundz said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the cable is a dual 3.5mm TRS termination? Sorry, I'm not super familiar with that headphone, so you'll have to confirm. It would be relatively easy to make a dual 3.5mm (female) adapter to 4 pin xlr, or RSA. Total cost for parts would be something like $20.
> ...


 
  
 I don't have any built, but I've got similar adapters. Just imagine this, but with the female 3.5mm instead of the 3 pin XLRs (red and yellow)


----------



## gr8soundz

ham sandwich said:


> I don't believe the Oppo PM-3 is internally wired for balanced.  Last I heard was that the cable jack in the left ear cup is just a 3 pin TRS connection and not a 4 pin connection that would allow for balanced.  The Oppo PM-1 and PM-2 can be easily converted to balanced with just a cable change (and Oppo sells the balanced cable to do that).  But the PM-3 isn't like that, as far as I know.
> 
> I have a LCD-2 and Audeze sells a balanced cable for it for just $80.
> I also have a HE-560 and a Norne Audio adapter cable for it that allows me to use a balanced Audeze cable with it.


 
  
 Can't find the exact post right now, but an Oppo rep here confirmed that they wired the PM-3s for 4-pins.
  
 However, they had no plans to release a factory balanced cable.
  
 Someone already had a custom cable made to work with their ak240:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/756828/oppo-pm-3-the-portable-planar-impressions/1050#post_11496246


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Can't find the exact post right now, but an Oppo rep here confirmed that they wired the PM-3s for 4-pins.
> 
> However, they had no plans to release a factory balanced cable.
> 
> ...


 
 I can confirm this.  It's wired for 4-pin if you want to go balanced.  I'll probably make one just to hear it (and cuz it will cost only like $10-20 in parts), but I don't suspect balanced will add much to that headphone.


----------



## seeteeyou

gr8soundz said:


> Right, the Z7 stock is dual TRS.
> 
> Any pics of such an adapter completed? (I've seen dual 3-pin xlr adapters). Post 'em or PM me if so.


 
  




  




  




  




  




  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42300604499
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42780582711


----------



## Ham Sandwich

stillhart said:


> I can confirm this.  It's wired for 4-pin if you want to go balanced.  I'll probably make one just to hear it (and cuz it will cost only like $10-20 in parts), but I don't suspect balanced will add much to that headphone.


 
  
 Oh neat!  They must have made a change just right before release.  I obviously haven't been following the PM-3 thread closely recently.  I did ask them during the development to please make it able to be balanced.
  
 I'll get a to hear a PM-3 in two weeks at the Seattle head-fi meet.  Now that it can go balanced I'm even more interested.  Especially for use with my PonoPlayer and the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## xuan87

ham sandwich said:


> Oh neat!  They must have made a change just right before release.  I obviously haven't been following the PM-3 thread closely recently.  I did ask them during the development to please make it able to be balanced.
> 
> I'll get a to hear a PM-3 in two weeks at the Seattle head-fi meet.  Now that it can go balanced I'm even more interested.  Especially for use with my PonoPlayer and the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 The problem with trying to make the PM-3 balanced is to find a small enough TRRS plug that can fit into the PM-3 side. Someone posted a link to a cable from Amazon and while that certainly looks small, I'm not sure if it is small enough. 
  
 EDIT: I took a look at the Amazon link and found out that the plug housing can be removed! That will definitely fit into the PM-3 and is a cheap option to convert the PM-3 to balanced!


----------



## gr8soundz

xuan87 said:


> The problem with trying to make the PM-3 balanced is to find a small enough TRRS plug that can fit into the PM-3 side. Someone posted a link to a cable from Amazon and while that certainly looks small, I'm not sure if it is small enough.


 
  
 I posted the link.
  
 Part of the metal sleeve can be removed:





 
  
 Hopefully it will fit.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

xuan87 said:


> The problem with trying to make the PM-3 balanced is to find a small enough TRRS plug that can fit into the PM-3 side. Someone posted a link to a cable from Amazon and while that certainly looks small, I'm not sure if it is small enough.
> 
> EDIT: I took a look at the Amazon link and found out that the plug housing can be removed! That will definitely fit into the PM-3 and is a cheap option to convert the PM-3 to balanced!


 
  
 Awesome!  I like it when a plan begins to come together.  I'll have to look much more seriously at the PM-3 now.
 This is shaping up to be a good year for headphone audio gear.  New Cavalli amps, new headphones, new portables, new DACs.


----------



## gr8soundz

ham sandwich said:


> Awesome!  I like it when a plan begins to come together.


 
  
 Glad I could help.


----------



## d1sturb3d

I have read this whole thread twice and have not seen what Class will the amp be..will it be Class A?


----------



## runeight

d1sturb3d said:


> I have read this whole thread twice and have not seen what Class will the amp be..will it be Class A?


 
  
 Class A or not Class A is not an absolutely fixed thing. It depends on the topology of the output stages and how they are biased.
  
 Most amps are designed to run Class A for up to a give amount of power and then transition smoothly into Class AB. Exactly at what power output this happens is usually directly related the current bias of the O/P stage.
  
 For example, an amp might be designed to run Class A up to 1W into 50R and then transition to Class AB. Some amps are designed to stay in Class A operation to their full power output.
  
 However, there is a serious tradeoff. The longer you want an amp to stay in Class A (that is the higher power you want in Class A) the higher the bias currents and the higher the power you have to dissipate at idle when the amp is just sitting there doing nothing.
  
 The Liquid Gold, for example, stays Class A to about 2.5W into 50R. But, at idle each output device is cooking at about 4.5-5W and their are 8 output devices in the (balanced) amp.
  
 Since the Carbon is very small and does not have a huge amount of power dissipation capacity, it cannot have high bias currents in the output devices. Thus, it won't run very long in Class A before going into Class AB. I don't believe you will notice this transition.


----------



## d1sturb3d

runeight said:


> Class A or not Class A is not an absolutely fixed thing. It depends on the topology of the output stages and how they are biased.
> 
> Most amps are designed to run Class A for up to a give amount of power and then transition smoothly into Class AB. Exactly at what power output this happens is usually directly related the current bias of the O/P stage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was actually thinking until when is the Carbon be operating in Class A before transitioning into B..I was just checking the specs and it was not mentioned..hence the question..Thank you though for answering


----------



## Pirakaphile

Features
-- .

--

--

Still my favorite section on the product page. I think it's the little period that makes all the difference.


----------



## warrenpchi

pirakaphile said:


> Features
> -- .
> 
> --
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I think so.  And why are you looking at the page on this fine morning?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^ limbering up for later....


----------



## warrenpchi

I did the account hack this morning, so I'm all set here.


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> Yes, I think so.  And why are you looking at the page on this fine morning?


 
 Oh just perusing the updated product description y'know?


----------



## reddog

warrenpchi said:


> I did the account hack this morning, so I'm all set here.


 what is the account hack ? Putting another product in the cart.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> I did the account hack this morning, so I'm all set here.


 
 (image missing) (image missing) (image missing)


----------



## rollinbr

I think everyone is getting their PC's/Mac's warmed up and ready for "high noon" Texas time. I'm ready to order the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## runeight

d1sturb3d said:


> I was actually thinking until when is the Carbon be operating in Class A before transitioning into B..I was just checking the specs and it was not mentioned..hence the question..Thank you though for answering


 
  
 Oh. A typical unit will transition at about 100mW into 50R. Note that the THD measurement was at 500mW into 32R, well above this transition with a more difficult load and the distortion is still very low.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

TODAY is going to be badass. How long of a wait do we have if we're lucky enough to get even one unit?


----------



## reddog

buttuglyjeff said:


>


lol so much for sharing info.


----------



## runeight

visceriouszero said:


> TODAY is going to be badass. How long of a wait do we have if we're lucky enough to get even one unit?


 
  
 See first post of this thread.


----------



## Cagin

Soon I'm gonna queue up Johnny Cash hang man countdown song


----------



## sealykojac

It's live - swarm swarm swarm!


----------



## zerodeefex

Think I might be first. Order 100000406


----------



## drfindley

Still says coming soon when the page loads for me.


----------



## Pirakaphile

drfindley said:


> Still says coming soon when the page loads for me.


 
 I think they've already completely sold out..


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Cavalli page crashing


----------



## sealykojac

at least I got my order confirmation before this:


----------



## reddog

The server has crashed on the Cavalli site.


----------



## mangler

command + R!!!!!


----------



## jexby

zerodeefex said:


> Think I might be first. Order 100000406


 
  
 maybe not quite first, mine is = 100000400
 rock on everyone!


----------



## vhsownsbeta

"Coming soon" for me...


----------



## joeexp

I'm 408 - you beat me - dammit!


----------



## DigitalFreak

can't seem to get onto the carbon page. I keep getting service temporarily unavailable


----------



## goldendarko

I'm trying to place an order, says service temporarily unavailable, have they sold out already?


----------



## runeight

Yes, the server is overloaded. Only a few orders have been placed so no need to be concerned about that. I just have to find out why it lost service so quickly. It should not have.


----------



## AxelCloris

goldendarko said:


> I'm trying to place an order, says service temporarily unavailable, have they sold out already?


 
  
 I hope not, I've been refreshing for a few minutes and it only ever says "coming soon."


----------



## VisceriousZERO

Site is crashing for meee nooooo


----------



## drfindley

axelcloris said:


> I hope not, I've been refreshing for a few minutes and it only ever says "coming soon."


 

 I've been refreshing since before noon and that's all I've seen. I'm wondering how anyone is ordering already and if they sold out before noon.


----------



## mangler

Same here. When the page does come up, I dont see the option to add it to the cart


----------



## Stillhart

I hope I'm on the right page, mine still says "Coming Soon" whenever it does go thru.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

I either get a 503 or the page loads and is "coming soon"...


----------



## goldendarko

runeight said:


> Yes, the server is overloaded. Only a few orders have been placed so no need to be concerned about that. I just have to find out why it lost service so quickly. It should not have.


 

 ok thanks, phew, guess we overwhelmed the server


----------



## lramirez1959

Same here, only coming soon...


----------



## elwappo99

I'm order number 412, just placed. So there's only been a few units ordered. I think the page wasn't ready for the head-fi effect.


----------



## reddog

goldendarko said:


> I'm trying to place an order, says service temporarily unavailable, have they sold out already?



Same here.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

This reminds me of buying radiohead tickets...


----------



## joeexp

goldendarko said:


> I'm trying to place an order, says service temporarily unavailable, have they sold out already?


 

 No  - the server is getting a hammering!
 Must be like a denial of service attack


----------



## Pirakaphile

The poor site looks as if the Illuminati spent an afternoon shaking all the virus skuzz off their hacking programs.


----------



## Cagin

Friggin iPad. I swear the blasted thing won't alow me the chance to load a fresh page instead of a coming soon cache.


----------



## mangler

BOOM! 413! Now only 4 more months


----------



## Stillhart

Well I got a receipt from Paypal but nothing from Cavalli.  Fingers crossed that it confirms in a few minutes when the servers get some time to breathe...


----------



## VisceriousZERO

I got in! got my orders in!


----------



## gr8soundz

Where are you guys seeing the order#?


----------



## digitalzed

IN! Don't know the number but I got one.


----------



## lramirez1959

Order confirmed, now the long wait....


----------



## joeexp

gr8soundz said:


> Where are you guys seeing the order#?


 

 You will get a confirmation email


----------



## drfindley

vhsownsbeta said:


> This reminds me of buying radiohead tickets...


 

 Hahaha, agreed! I was able to get through and pay with PayPal, but I haven't seen a confirmation page from Cavalli or an email, but I assume it'll just come soon.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Well I got a receipt from Paypal but nothing from Cavalli.  Fingers crossed that it confirms in a few minutes when the servers get some time to breathe...


 
  
 Same here. Been almost 15min.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

drfindley said:


> Hahaha, agreed! I was able to get through and pay with PayPal, but I haven't seen a confirmation page from Cavalli or an email, but I assume it'll just come soon.


 
  
 I have just received my cavalli receipt, #100000428


----------



## runeight

Up again.


----------



## Insidious Meme

Order 426 here.


----------



## crixnet

I'm in!  got my order number!
  
 Number 434.


----------



## Stillhart

Hmm, it wasn't showing in my Orders page on the Cavalli site, but still in my cart.  I tried again.  May have just bought two.  o.O
  
 EDIT - Well one went through.  I suspect they both did.  I'll contact Cavalli to get the second one freed up.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Well it took me about a 100 refreshes but I finally got through. Man talk about nerve racking


----------



## digitalzed

#432


----------



## Cagin

Mea culpa. Took a few other tries and various retries after each steps but made it through. #469
Thank you mr Cavalli, this wil be my first personal amp.


----------



## jexby

this is great seeing all the sighs of relief and successful order fury here!
  
 next drama will be:  when does the 501st person complain.


----------



## DigitalFreak

where you guys seeing your number. On my account orders page I have it showing me order placed and payment received but no #


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> Up again.


 
  
 What if we don't receive a confirmation email?
  
 Got confirmation from paypal and I can see my order on the site when logged in.


----------



## Insidious Meme

Check your emails, arly


----------



## drgajet

I haven't been this nervous about anything in a long time. #473


----------



## DigitalFreak

will do meme, thanks


----------



## gr8soundz

After 20-30min I'm worried the server didn't confirm.


----------



## goldendarko

We were all just doing that to Cavalli's service just now


----------



## reddog

I got one yes there be justice lol. I was 471. Now for the long wait, August will be a good month


----------



## Barry S

Check your spam folder, but the server is probably just slammed sending out the confirmations.


----------



## DigitalFreak

email received I'm number 468. Looks like I got to place my order by the skin of my teeth


----------



## mangler

Did these order numbers start from 0? Or did they start from an already running tally of order numbers from of all the Cavalli amps?


----------



## Stillhart

mangler said:


> Did these order numbers start from 0? Or did they start from an already running tally of order numbers from of all the Cavalli amps?


 
  
 I'm fairly certain they did not start from 0.  The first person to report their number was in the 400's.


----------



## Barry S

digitalfreak said:


> email received I'm number 468. Looks like I got to place my order by the skin of my teeth


 

 I think you're amp # 68.  It looks like the order number sequence started with 100000401.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

mangler said:


> Did these order numbers start from 0? Or did they start from an already running tally of order numbers from of all the Cavalli amps?




The earliest head-fi orders seem to be around 400


----------



## ejong7

I think they jumped. I'm 438. Nos all over the place.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

gr8soundz said:


> After 20-30min I'm worried the server didn't confirm.


 
  
 Well, I see the order on the Cavalli site, but no email confirm yet.  But as long as its on the site I'm not worried...


----------



## elwappo99

digitalfreak said:


> Well it took me about a 100 refreshes but I finally got through. Man talk about nerve racking


 
  
 I'm sure Alex was a little more stressed trying to figure out what was happening to his poor server!


----------



## ejong7

Lol the poor server. Sent me 2 confirmation emails.


----------



## runeight

OK. The servers went crazy on the first hits, but they seem to be stable now. I'll keep watching it.


----------



## ejong7

runeight said:


> OK. The servers went crazy on the first hits, but they seem to be stable now. I'll keep watching it.


 

 Are the serial numbers starting from 400? Just curious.


----------



## DigitalFreak

runeight said:


> OK. The servers went crazy on the first hits, but they seem to be stable now. I'll keep watching it.


 
 Maybe it was just the sudden brute force of the first wave of buyers that your provider wasn't expecting an it took them a few minutes to allot more bandwidth to the servers?


----------



## KG Jag

My orders section on company site shows two LC's ordered (one more than originally intended) and paid for.  No email confirmation yet on either.


----------



## DigitalFreak

kg jag said:


> My orders section on company site shows two LC's ordered (one more than originally intended) and paid for.  No email confirmation yet on either.


 
 lmao, hitting that place order icon like a madman were we?


----------



## VisceriousZERO

digitalfreak said:


> lmao, hitting that place order icon like a madman were we?




No, like a head-fier


----------



## KG Jag

digitalfreak said:


> kg jag said:
> 
> 
> > My orders section on company site shows two LC's ordered (one more than originally intended) and paid for.  No email confirmation yet on either.
> ...


 

 Nope (at least not then).  In the chain of screens that appeared in processing my first order, it brought me back to the shipping address page.  I thought that the first order had not gone through because I had used by cell phone number instead of the land line number associated with the credit card I used.


----------



## goldendarko

Didn't think I'd ever say this, but I'll soon be the owner of a Cavalli Audio amp


----------



## Sopp

runeight said:


> OK. The servers went crazy on the first hits, but they seem to be stable now. I'll keep watching it.


 
  
 Order placed 30 mins ago. The order page shows payment received but I do not receive confirmation email so far. Does the purchase go through?


----------



## lramirez1959

Yes, happy owner of a Cavalli amp.
 Poor server, I can imagine the beating...


----------



## d1sturb3d

kg jag said:


> My orders section on company site shows two LC's ordered (one more than originally intended) and paid for.  No email confirmation yet on either.


 
 I have two more than originally intended lol..emailing Dr Alex now about it.  I have confirmation on my orders though, hopefully I can cancel the pair thru my card so as not to provide inconvenience to cavalli..the loading for me was painfully slow and I panicked..sigh


----------



## gr8soundz

sopp said:


> Order placed 30 mins ago. The order page shows payment received but I do not receive confirmation email so far. Does the purchase go through?


 
  
 Not sure how you paid but I'm guessing only those who paid by credit card got a confirmation email from cavalli.


----------



## KG Jag

gr8soundz said:


> sopp said:
> 
> 
> > Order placed 30 mins ago. The order page shows payment received but I do not receive confirmation email so far. Does the purchase go through?
> ...


 
  
 Nope--I paid twice (as it turns out) by CC and still no confirmation email for either.  I did have to sign up as new customer.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Anyone who accidentally bought two should just wait a little bit for things to calm down and then send a message through the Cavalli site explaining the dilemma. I'm fairly sure cancelling an order is easy as eatin' a peanut butter samwich.


----------



## gr8soundz

kg jag said:


> Nope--I paid twice (as it turns out) by CC and still no confirmation email for either.  I did have to sign up as new customer.


 
  
 Very strange.
  
 Only once before did I have an online order confirm payment but not confirm the actual order. This would be a very bad time to repeat that. However, thankfully, at least the cavalli site shows the order.
  
 EDIT: Something tells me we ALL had to sign up as new customers for this one (either today or past few days).


----------



## CanDude

I payed with PayPal. I immediately got _two_ confirmation mails from Cavalli Audio...
  
 This will be my 7th hp amp (two for sale), I wonder how many I need...


----------



## Stillhart

d1sturb3d said:


> I have two more than originally intended lol..emailing Dr Alex now about it.  I have confirmation on my orders though, hopefully I can cancel the pair thru my card so as not to provide inconvenience to cavalli..the loading for me was painfully slow and I panicked..sigh


 
 As someone who sells through Paypal, please don't cancel it from your side.  Give them some time to deal with it.  If you put in a dispute, neither of you get the money and it can last for up to 30 days in some cases...


----------



## runeight

Yes, the glitch seems to have left out a few confirmations. We'll take care of this when things are calmer.


----------



## runeight

We will also fix any unintended orders. This is easy.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I forgot my birthday is in August. It's like Dr. Alex is sending me a present specially for me!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pirakaphile said:


> I forgot my birthday is in August. It's like Dr. Alex is sending me a present specially for me!


 
  
 Sounds like my birthday, if I don't buy a present, I don't get a present........


----------



## d1sturb3d

stillhart said:


> As someone who sells through Paypal, please don't cancel it from your side.  Give them some time to deal with it.  If you put in a dispute, neither of you get the money and it can last for up to 30 days in some cases...


 
 Thanks for the advise.  Yeah, I'll just wait for the update from Cavalli..well it's 230AM here, so I guess I can sleep well now, though the rush is still in me lol..need to wake up in 4 hours to go to work!


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> Sounds like my birthday, if I don't buy a present, I don't get a present........


 
 Don't worry, the past few years have awarded me with clothes, some spending money for music, and restaurant gift cards. The Magni/Modi combo was my present to me, as well as the HE-500s. Besides, noone else wants to fund my 'addiction'


----------



## drgajet

d1sturb3d said:


> Thanks for the advise.  Yeah, I'll just wait for the update from Cavalli..well it's 230AM here, so I guess I can sleep well now, though the rush is still in me lol..need to wake up in 4 hours to go to work!




Job well done! Now go to bed.


----------



## maakheru

I got through and paid with paypal. Now I need to start learning about balanced cables.


----------



## digitalzed

candude said:


> I payed with PayPal. I immediately got _two_ confirmation mails from Cavalli Audio...
> 
> This will be my 7th hp amp (two for sale), I wonder how many I need...


 

 Two from Cavalli, but how many from Pay Pal? I also received two from Alex but was only charged once by Pay Pal.


----------



## jexby

digitalzed said:


> Two from Cavalli, but how many from Pay Pal? I also received two from Alex but was only charged once by Pay Pal.


 
  
 same here.  one paypal payment made me breathe easier.


----------



## aqsw

#510. I own a Cavalli 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!!!!!!


----------



## DigitalFreak

maakheru said:


> I got through and paid with paypal. Now I need to start learning about balanced cables.


 
 After reading Dr Cavallis explanation about how the amps balanced circuitry works I've been thinking about that myself. The cables themselves should be easy enough, just go through WyWires, ALO, or Moon Audio, they all do balanced cables. My worry is finding a good DAC with a balanced line out. I really liked what I read, spec wise, concerning the Bottlehead DAC but it doesn't have balanced out. Another company I was looking at was Calyx but I'm not sure if they offer anything with balanced out.


----------



## warrenpchi

aqsw said:


> #510. I own a Cavalli
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




 Wait, you're in Winnipeg???  Do you know Arly?


----------



## aqsw

digitalfreak said:


> After reading Dr Cavallis explanation about how the amps balanced circuitry works I've been thinking about that myself. The cables themselves should be easy enough, just go through WyWires, ALO, or Moon Audio, they all do balanced cables. My worry is finding a good DAC with a balanced line out. I really liked what I read, spec wise, concerning the Bottlehead DAC but it doesn't have balanced out. Another company I was looking at was Calyx but I'm not sure if they offer anything with balanced out.


 
 Did you buy one DigitalFreak?


----------



## drgajet

So far the only smallish dac with balanced xlr outputs is the emotive stealth dc-1. Any others that may be transtortable with the carbon?

Jim

Arcam irdac - single end out
Cypher db - rsa connector (expensive interconnect but could work)
Mousai192 - silver (I know kinda anal)


----------



## aqsw

warrenpchi said:


> Wait, you're in Winnipeg???  Do you know Arly?


 
 I have probably met him. I have been to two meets. Nathan is the only one I really know by name.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> After reading Dr Cavallis explanation about how the amps balanced circuitry works I've been thinking about that myself. The cables themselves should be easy enough, just go through WyWires, ALO, or Moon Audio, they all do balanced cables. My worry is finding a good DAC with a balanced line out. I really liked what I read, spec wise, concerning the Bottlehead DAC but it doesn't have balanced out. Another company I was looking at was Calyx but I'm not sure if they offer anything with balanced out.


 
  
 Based on what Dr Cavalli said about how the balanced amp works (much earlier in the thread), I'd have no hesitation using an SE DAC with it.  Keep in mind it was demoed with a Hugo at Canjam (which is SE) and based on that, a lot of folks are buying one.


----------



## thomascrown

drgajet said:


> So far the only smallish dac with balanced xlr outputs is the emotive stealth dc-1. Any others that may be transtortable with the carbon?
> 
> Jim
> 
> ...


 
 Hrt music streamer hd has balanced outputs and it's not too big.


----------



## drgajet

stillhart said:


> Based on what Dr Cavalli said about how the balanced amp works (much earlier in the thread), I'd have no hesitation using an SE DAC with it.  Keep in mind it was demoed with a Hugo at Canjam (which is SE) and based on that, a lot of folks are buying one.




Hugo will be perfect. To me it seems odd to pair a $600 amp with a $2.4k dac. Dc-1 at $500 seems a better pairing. I agree se input with Carbon should yield equally good results but if it has balanced input I would like to use them. (again being anal)

Jim


----------



## ejong7

drgajet said:


> Hugo will be perfect. To me it seems odd to pair a $600 amp with a $2.4k dac. Dc-1 at $500 seems a better pairing. I agree se input with Carbon should yield equally good results but if it has balanced input I would like to use them. (again being anal)
> 
> Jim


 

 Hugo + LC = BALLLERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
  
 That said. I haven't heard the LC but the Hugo is superb. Definitely a darn good DAC.


----------



## Stillhart

drgajet said:


> Hugo will be perfect. To me it seems odd to pair a $600 amp with a $2.4k dac. Dc-1 at $500 seems a better pairing. I agree se input with Carbon should yield equally good results but if it has balanced input I would like to use them. (again being anal)
> 
> Jim


 
  
 Well, the Hugo is pretty overpriced and you're paying for a lot of connectivity features that you might not use.  But it does sound mighty fine!  Something like the 2Qute might work better (same sound, no bells or whistles).  
  
 I have two or three R2R DAC's coming in that I'll be putting head to head to see which I'm keeping.  One of them is SE and I'm totally fine with that.


----------



## gr8soundz

> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Based on what Dr Cavalli said about how the balanced amp works (much earlier in the thread), I'd have no hesitation using an SE DAC with it.  Keep in mind it was demoed with a Hugo at Canjam (which is SE) and based on that, a lot of folks are buying one.
> ...


 
  
 I plan to use the rca outs from the idsd micro to the balanced carbon inputs.
  
 Only issue now is how to get a 4-pin xlr or alo termination for each headphone.
  
 Otherwise, also based on what Dr. Cavalli said, the input type to the amp doesn't matter as it always runs balanced mode internally. Using SE out means the carbon won't use all channel amps. I think he said it'd be like leaving 75% of its power on the table.


----------



## randomx

I'm planning to use the Liquid Carbon with a Music Hall Audio dac25.3, which is currently $549 at Moon Audio. It has balanced outs, but I've mostly been using the tube output to drive my AKG K701s, so it will be interesting to hear the difference with the all-balanced operation. It is rather larger than the Liquid Carbon though and weighs 10lbs...definitely more transportable than portable. Still, it's in the same price range and I've been very happy with it.


----------



## DigitalFreak

aqsw said:


> Did you buy one DigitalFreak?


 
 Yes sir I did


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> Based on what Dr Cavalli said about how the balanced amp works (much earlier in the thread), I'd have no hesitation using an SE DAC with it.  Keep in mind it was demoed with a Hugo at Canjam (which is SE) and based on that, a lot of folks are buying one.


 
 Good point. Dr Cavalli, what's your view on this? If you were in our shoes would go the balanced out DAC route or would you just find a nice sounding DAC with SE out?


----------



## gr8soundz

digitalfreak said:


> Good point. Dr Cavalli, what's your view on this? If you were in our shoes would go the balanced out DAC route or would you just find a nice sounding DAC with SE out?


 
  
 Not to step on Dr. Cavalli's question but, I think it depends on our personal preference and what we can afford.
  
 Obviously, if you can afford a Hugo (which many say was demoed with the carbon), you've chosen very high-end but still great SE out.
  
 I gotta believe any good DAC, SE or balanced, should work well with the carbon.


----------



## runeight

Hey Folks. If anyone is still missing a confirmation please mail to support@cavalliaudio.com. Most everything has caught up now, but some things may still be hanging out.
  
 Someone asked about serial nums. They will start a #1. #0 is always reserved for CA.


----------



## warrenpchi

runeight said:


> Someone asked about serial nums. They will start a #1. #0 is always reserved for CA.


 
  
 Lol, happy just to get one!


----------



## ejong7

runeight said:


> Hey Folks. If anyone is still missing a confirmation please mail to support@cavalliaudio.com. Most everything has caught up now, but some things may still be hanging out.
> 
> Someone asked about serial nums. They will start a #1. #0 is always reserved for CA.


 

 I asked the question. Oh so the serial numbers are different, not the order numbers? Thought the serial numbers started at 400


----------



## runeight

Oh. Order numbers are just for tracking the order through the system. But the serial numbers will start at #1.


----------



## ejong7

Are there more than 200 to start production already? We don't want any delays to that 4 months now.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I vote whoever gets amp with serial number one has to buy everyone on this thread a case of beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Dr Cavalli gets a case of Italian port wine though


----------



## bearFNF

Ack, I can't order until I get home tomorrow...maybe there will be some left??


----------



## DigitalFreak

gr8soundz said:


> Not to step on Dr. Cavalli's question but, I think it depends on our personal preference and what we can afford.
> 
> Obviously, if you can afford a Hugo (which many say was demoed with the carbon), you've chosen very high-end but still great SE out.
> 
> I gotta believe any good DAC, SE or balanced, should work well with the carbon.


 
 Maybe that Bottlehead or Calyx DAC is still worth keeping on my list then. Thanks my friend


----------



## ejong7

bearfnf said:


> Ack, I can't order until I get home tomorrow...maybe there will be some left??


 

 It's still available as far as I know on the site. Good luck to you!


----------



## mangler

Not that it matters all that much, but will the final enclosure be the same as the one in the photos on the website?


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> I vote whoever gets amp with serial number one has to buy everyone on this thread a case of beer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good thing I have 3 and not 1!


----------



## runeight

mangler said:


> Not that it matters all that much, but will the final enclosure be the same as the one in the photos on the website?


 
  
 A few changes are planned. Could you kindly repost this question tomorrow when I can make a proper answer?


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> A few changes are planned. Could you kindly repost this question tomorrow when I can make a proper answer?


 
 You could always edit your first post or the product page to include some frequent questions and info and stuff. That might help a lot of people.


----------



## runeight

Some of you have responded with emails to support. It will be fairly easy to sort out what happened. Much of it has to do with paypal being extremely delayed in sending us a confirmation of payment response.
  
 Also, don't be concerned about any order being lost. So far as I can see everything is captured, even if you didn't get confirmation. No one will lose place unless you baled out too soon.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

mangler said:


> Not that it matters all that much, but will the final enclosure be the same as the one in the photos on the website?




I vote that the markings on the enclosure are 'blacked out' to look more like the LAu et al.

I just want to thank Dr Cavalli again for giving a lot of us our first opportunity to have one of his creations in our homes.


----------



## mscott58

Any idea how many are left?

Yes, I'm stuck square on the middle of the fence! 

Cheers


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> Any idea how many are left?


 
  
 Hard to say, we have no idea how many people ordered multiples (which some people said they would do beforehand).
  


mscott58 said:


> stuck square on the middle of the fence!


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> Hard to say, we have no idea how many people ordered multiples (which some people said they would do beforehand).


 
  
 I've been trying to get him to just make the leap but he's resistant to my methods.


----------



## pippen99

Got mine! #462.  Originally View Orders showed that I had purchased two but this is all straight now.  My credit card doesn't show the transaction yet so does this mean the charge will not show until the unit is produced and shipped?  Now I have to think about a balanced cable for my LCD-2f.  I've been going back and forth between the Norne Draug v2 and the Solz.  Guess I have four months to make up my mind.


----------



## gr8soundz

404.
  
 The irony.......


----------



## aqsw

digitalfreak said:


> Yes sir I did





Two in Winnipeg!


----------



## warrenpchi

axelcloris said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > mscott58 said:
> ...


 
  
 Lol, no worries.  We all have to make this call for ourselves.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That said, mscott, with as much as you travel... why would you deny yourself this kind of pleasure on the road?  Or alternatively, if you know of something that sounds better and is transportable, PM me and clue me in bro!


----------



## drgajet

Come on Michael, you know you want one. Hurry before Bob gets the last one!

Jim


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> Any idea how many are left?
> 
> Yes, I'm stuck square on the middle of the fence!
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 With the amount of hype around these and the finite supply, I'd say buying one now is an investment that shouldn't be too hard to recoup should you change your mind.  However if you don't buy one now and change your mind later, you might find yourself SOL.


----------



## drgajet

stillhart said:


> With the amount of hype around these and the finite supply, I'd say buying one now is an investment that shouldn't be too hard to recoup should you change your mind.  However if you don't buy one now and change your mind later, you might find yourself SOL.




Ditto. Buy it, buy it, buy it,you know you want to. (Is it working yet?)


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> Any idea how many are left?
> 
> Yes, I'm stuck square on the middle of the fence!


 
  
 Perhaps its because of the coming soon Liquid Silicon (to be renamed).
  
 It will have a battery and is much smaller than the Carbon. Probably a lower price too but its still in development and we may not see it til late in the year.
  
 Given the choice, I'd go for the smaller, battery powered model but couldn't resist the price of the Carbon.
  
 Also, as Dr. Cavalli stated, if they don't make anymore than 500, imagine what value/worth the Carbon will become.
  
 EDIT: Carbon still avail. Unlikely another production run will be needed if taking this long to sell out the 1st 500.


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> With the amount of hype around these and the finite supply, I'd say buying one now is an investment that shouldn't be too hard to recoup should you change your mind.  However if you don't buy one now and change your mind later, you might find yourself SOL.



Very well put sir.


----------



## mwilson

digitalfreak said:


> Dr Cavalli gets a case of *Italian port wine *though


 
  
 There's no such thing.


----------



## ejong7

gr8soundz said:


> Perhaps its because of the coming soon Liquid Silicon (to be renamed).
> 
> It will have a battery and is much smaller than the Carbon. Probably a lower price too but its still in development and we may not see it til late in the year.
> 
> ...


 

 Well to be fair $599 is not really chump change anyways.


----------



## thomascrown

mwilson said:


> There's no such thing.


 
 the closest thing is maybe the Marsala, but port wine is from Portugal


----------



## mangler

Earlier there was a discussion about how the Carbon switches from class from A to class B fairly early. Does that mean the amp will actually be in class B or is it really A/B? If it's class B, may I ask how crossover distortion was minimized? The amp seems to measure very well, and by all accounts sounds amazing. I'm very much looking forward to receiving mine 

P.S. I have a minimal understanding of electronics, so please forgive me if my questions and/or statements are dumb


----------



## reddog

ejong7 said:


> Well to be fair $599 is not really chump change anyways.



I can afford such luxury because I have no life or wife. And if I do find a girlfriend, my audio spending would be greatly reduced lol.


----------



## AxelCloris

reddog said:


> I can afford such luxury because I have no life or wife. And if I do find a girlfriend, my audio spending would be greatly reduced lol.


 
  
 Let your partner know you have an addiction early on and things should be fine. My wife doesn't object to my many hobbies even if she doesn't understand or care about most of them.


----------



## runeight

mangler said:


> Earlier there was a discussion about how the Carbon switches from class from A to class B fairly early. Does that mean the amp will actually be in class B or is it really A/B? If it's class B, may I ask how crossover distortion was minimized? The amp seems to measure very well, and by all accounts sounds amazing. I'm very much looking forward to receiving mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It goes smoothly from A to AB. If I said B earlier it was just a mistake.


----------



## mangler

That's great news Dr. Cavalli, thank you for the clarification!

By the way, here is the post I was talking about, in case you would like to edit it. The bit about going from A to B is in the last paragraph:



runeight said:


> Class A or not Class A is not an absolutely fixed thing. It depends on the topology of the output stages and how they are biased.
> 
> Most amps are designed to run Class A for up to a give amount of power and then transition smoothly into Class AB. Exactly at what power output this happens is usually directly related the current bias of the O/P stage.
> 
> ...


----------



## runeight

Thanks. Fixed.


----------



## gr8soundz

ejong7 said:


> Well to be fair $599 is not really chump change anyways.


 
   





reddog said:


> I can afford such luxury because I have no life or wife. And if I do find a girlfriend, my audio spending would be greatly reduced lol.


 
   





axelcloris said:


> Let your partner know you have an addiction early on and things should be fine. My wife doesn't object to my many hobbies even if she doesn't understand or care about most of them.


 
  
 The Carbon is chump change compared to the Hugo or Liquid Gold.
  
 Almost none of the good/great stuff in higher-end audio is cheap (and I can barely afford the cheap stuff). But I grew tired of re-buying less capable Fiio amps and limiting myself to headphones under $100.  When I realized I could buy much better components for the combined costs of equipment I will no longer use, something like the Carbon is a no brainer.
  
 After 2014 being the worst year ever for me, enjoying music like never before courtesy of the iBasso R10 and Sony Z7 and iFi iDSD Micro and Oppo PM-3 is *priceless*. Hopefully, the Carbon will add to that enjoyment. Believe it or not, I got all that equipment over the course of a year (including the Carbon now too) for a combined total less than the cost of a Hugo.
  
 Expensive? Yes. Do I need this stuff to live and breathe? No. But I'm thankful this hobby is keeping my mind occupied and making my music sound like never before. Not to mention each piece can be considered an investment. I take extremely good care of them and could easily resell (I may have to eventually) most with minimal loss.
  
 To each his/her own, but I could be doing a lot worse than having a head-fi "addiction."


----------



## yzhengyu

I just placed my order - #100000547. I guess the order number is just that, an identification number for the order and the last three numbers mean nothing? 
  
 Barring a notification that I missed the boat, I guess this will round off my amps with its solid-state / balanced connections...


----------



## MattTCG

gr8soundz said:


> The Carbon is chump change compared to the Hugo or Liquid Gold.
> 
> Almost none of the good/great stuff in higher-end audio is cheap (and I can barely afford the cheap stuff). But I grew tired of re-buying less capable Fiio amps and limiting myself to headphones under $100.  When I realized I could buy much better components for the combined costs of equipment I will no longer use, something like the Carbon is a no brainer.
> 
> ...


 I say carbon plus the micro may end up being insanely good for the money.


----------



## elwappo99

yzhengyu said:


> I just placed my order - #100000547. I guess the order number is just that, an identification number for the order and the last three numbers mean nothing?
> 
> Barring a notification that I missed the boat, I guess this will round off my amps with its solid-state / balanced connections...


 
  
 Looks like the earliest order number is #400, so it looks like it's just an overall tracking system Cavalli has in place for orders.


----------



## Barry S

yzhengyu said:


> I just placed my order - #100000547. I guess the order number is just that, an identification number for the order and the last three numbers mean nothing?
> 
> Barring a notification that I missed the boat, I guess this will round off my amps with its solid-state / balanced connections...


 

 So, assuming all of today's orders are for Liquid Carbons and 10% of buyers purchased two amps (scientific wild-assed guess), close to 170 amps were sold so far. That number will easily be over 200 by morning.


----------



## Serenitty

So Barry, will there be two of the seat the next meet? I'm sure we'll have them by then....


----------



## xuan87

Order number #456 here (pretty nice number lol!). Managed to get it in under 20 mins so I could still head to bed at 1:20 am. I see that there are a few other Singaporeans here who got it too.
  
 Will be looking to get an Emotiva DC-1 during their annual sale to pair with the LC, and probably one of their near field speakers too.


----------



## VisceriousZERO

reddog said:


> I can afford such luxury because I have no life or wife. And if I do find a girlfriend, my audio spending would be greatly reduced lol.




I have a wife... And she approves (i think?) Of my Cavalli Audio purchase. (We got married AFTER my LAu)


----------



## gr8soundz

matttcg said:


> I say carbon plus the micro may end up being insanely good for the money.


 
  
 I certainly hope so.
  
 The Micro's DAC (and amp) continues to impress but adding the Carbon's discrete amp and balanced outputs should be a close to perfect combo.


----------



## dnuggett

barry s said:


> So, assuming all of today's orders are for Liquid Carbons and 10% of buyers purchased two amps (scientific wild-assed guess), close to 170 amps were sold so far. That number will easily be over 200 by morning.


 
 Not sure you can go by the number. I placed an order before an above poster, but got a later number.


----------



## MattTCG

gr8soundz said:


> I certainly hope so.
> 
> The Micro's DAC (and amp) continues to impress but adding the Carbon's discrete amp and balanced outputs should be a close to perfect combo.


 plus 1. The micro is a very analog sounding dac. Very musical.


----------



## warrenpchi

visceriouszero said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > I can afford such luxury because I have no life or wife. And if I do find a girlfriend, my audio spending would be greatly reduced lol.
> ...


 
  
 You're married?!?!  But you're so young!


----------



## Barry S

serenitty said:


> So Barry, will there be two of the seat the next meet? I'm sure we'll have them by then....


 
  
 At least two, I think. I have more amps than headphones--that can't be right?
  


dnuggett said:


> Not sure you can go by the number. I placed an order before an above poster, but got a later number.


 
  
 Maybe the type of payment can shift you in the order sequence, but I bet that's close.


----------



## mscott58

You guys really are impossible! Talk about 'effin peer pressure. 

 And yes, I did cave - I'm #595. 
  
 Good thing I sold my HE-560's last night as that funded the Carbon. 
  
 And Warren, before you ask my butt does feel better now that it's off the fence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers my friends (and enablers!)


----------



## warrenpchi

So apparently there's a whole other thread about the Liquid Carbon elsewhere:  http://pcn76.no-ip.net/x2/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=212109&extra=page%3D1&page=1
  
 Google Translate, as always, puts forth a noble effort.  "Fever ear expansion."  Okay sure, why not?


----------



## AxelCloris

mscott58 said:


> You guys really are impossible! Talk about 'effin peer pressure.
> 
> And yes, I did cave - I'm #595.
> 
> ...


 
  




  
 You have chosen well.


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> You guys really are impossible! Talk about 'effin peer pressure.


 
  
 Oh you know you love it!  Smells like team spirit!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mscott58 said:


> And Warren, before you ask my butt does feel better now that it's off the fence.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So we'll have these as part of our personal rigs at RMAF (or if we're lucky, London)!
  


mscott58 said:


> And yes, I did cave - I'm #595.


 
  
 Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!


----------



## mscott58

warrenpchi said:


> Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!


 
 Warren - Thought you were #2? 
  




  
  
  
 (but seriously I hope that I made the first 200 - fingers crossed Alex!)


----------



## VisceriousZERO

warrenpchi said:


> You're married?!?!  But you're so young!


 
 I am! Hahahaha, actually expecting the first kiddo in a bit  One to share audio love with 
  
 Also this Carbon will be a good portable friend for me


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!
> ...


 
  
 Shhh, what happens at CanJam, stays at CanJam!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


visceriouszero said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > You're married?!?!  But you're so young!
> ...


 
  
 Wow, congratulations my friend!


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> So we'll have these as part of our personal rigs at RMAF (or if we're lucky, London)!


 
  
 I'm already looking into flight case options for transportation.


----------



## Emerpus

Woke up on the other side of the planet ... saw this post and placed an order ... #597
  
 So am I in or out of the pre-order?
  
 Anyway, I'll be pairing this baby with the iDSD Micro as DAC and Alpha Prime ... hope it sounds great


----------



## jexby

mscott58 said:


> ure.
> 
> And yes, I did cave - I'm #595.
> 
> Good thing I sold my HE-560's last night as that funded the Carbon.


 
  
 whoa what!?  the HE-560s (balanced) are exactly the reason I jumped at the LCarbon!
  
 sorry you had to give up great cans for the amp.  but everyone's gotta do whatcha gotta do.


----------



## jexby

warrenpchi said:


> Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!


 
  
 I smell an inside sales job with the Dr himself, or someone skilled in the black arts of hacking.





  
 no stress, we all have a 4 month wait.....


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> I'm already looking into flight case options for transportation.


 
 Wonder what Pelican case would work best? 
  
 Maybe the 1150?
  
 http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1150


----------



## warrenpchi

jexby said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!
> ...


 
  
 Lol, I think I got lucky and caught Cavalli when he was testing taking the product live or something.  Or I was legitimately just fastest on the draw.  Either way, I'LL TAKE IT!
  
 TBH though, I don't think either of us are Serial No. 1.  A Carbon was one of the prizes awarded in our CanJam SoCal 2015 Shag... and I think that guy is going to wind up getting the first one.  Whatevs, again, just glad to get mine.


----------



## AxelCloris

emerpus said:


> Woke up on the other side of the planet ... saw this post and placed an order ... #597
> 
> So am I in or out of the pre-order?
> 
> Anyway, I'll be pairing this baby with the iDSD Micro as DAC and Alpha Prime ... hope it sounds great


 
  
@warrenpchi We found number 200! Custom title please!
  
 Don't worry Emerpus, you made it with time to spare.


----------



## warrenpchi

axelcloris said:


> emerpus said:
> 
> 
> > Woke up on the other side of the planet ... saw this post and placed an order ... #597
> ...


 
  
 Haha, he's actually #201... we need Mr. #596 to come forward.


----------



## Stillhart

jexby said:


> whoa what!?  the HE-560s (balanced) are exactly the reason I jumped at the LCarbon!
> 
> sorry you had to give up great cans for the amp.  but everyone's gotta do whatcha gotta do.


 
 Agreed! 
  
 Then again maybe he's a HE-1000 tester.


----------



## mscott58

jexby said:


> whoa what!?  the HE-560s (balanced) are exactly the reason I jumped at the LCarbon!
> 
> sorry you had to give up great cans for the amp.  but everyone's gotta do whatcha gotta do.


 
 Found I liked the LCD-3F's better than the 560's, so was forced to keep my Audezes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And didn't have to sell the 560's, but couldn't justify keeping them and the LCD-3's. Wanted them to find another happy home, which they have. 
  
 The timing with the LC just worked out that way. Easy mental accounting since I didn't even have time to pull the funds from the sale out of my PayPal account. 

 Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> Haha, he's actually #201... we need Mr. #596 to come forward.


 
  
 Is it confirmed that it started at 397?


----------



## Emerpus

axelcloris said:


> @warrenpchi We found number 200! Custom title please!
> 
> Don't worry Emerpus, you made it with time to spare.


 
  
 Thanks @AxelCloris *Phew*


----------



## AxelCloris

mscott58 said:


> Wonder what Pelican case would work best?
> 
> Maybe the 1150?
> 
> http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1150


 
  
 I was thinking maybe the 1450. But I'll probably stop into Guitar Center and my local camera shop for ideas.
  
 http://www.pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1450


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Haha, he's actually #201... we need Mr. #596 to come forward.
> ...


 
  
 No, but unless someone comes forward that came before me...


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> No, but unless someone comes forward that came before me...


 
  
 Hmm, well #18 isn't terrible I suppose.  I paid twice for mine, maybe that counts for something?


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > No, but unless someone comes forward that came before me...
> ...


 
  
 Lol, decision time... accept a refund or take two?  Kidding.  Seriously, you don't need two.


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, decision time... accept a refund or take two?  Kidding.  Seriously, you don't need two.


 
  
 I was going to hook the left into one and the right into the other for super-balanced amping.  It turns out you get 4x the power so you only need to breathe on the volume knob to make it go louder.  It's super handy when you're across the room, and it's got less EMI than a remote controlled pot.


----------



## thomascrown

warrenpchi said:


> No, but unless someone comes forward that came before me...


 
 Order 398 here, does it means I'll get it before?


----------



## warrenpchi

thomascrown said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > No, but unless someone comes forward that came before me...
> ...


 
  
 Well it wouldn't be before me at 397.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But realistically, no, as I think they're all shipping at the same time right?  That's my understanding.  So in reality it will be based on distance from Austin, TX... which probably means that money4me247 will beat us all.


----------



## Emerpus

So they shipping the 1st 500 at one go? or just 1st 200? I heard I'm at 201


----------



## warrenpchi

emerpus said:


> So they shipping the 1st 500 at one go? or just 1st 200? I heard I'm at 201


 
  
 Shipping the first 500 right?  I think?  But the first 200 was required to make that first 500 happen.


----------



## goldendarko

In other words cavalli just sold $120,000 in liquid carbons today. Even with the prices of their other amps I bet that's their best day ever, though I'm sure the profit margins are a lot less


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> plus 1. The micro is a very analog sounding dac. Very musical.



I must look up the Micro dac, it sounds neat. I will, towards the end of the year , get a dac to go with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon.


----------



## runeight

warrenpchi said:


> Shipping the first 500 right?  I think?  But the first 200 was required to make that first 500 happen.


 
  
 I don't expect that they will all ship at the same time because they won't all come out of production on the same day. You should assume that they will go out in batches until the entire order book is fulfilled.
  
 As we get closer to ship time though we'll have better information.


----------



## DatGuy

So is 100000400 the first one? 
  
 If so we reached 200 guys !
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Edit: Dang it i was 600 ):


----------



## kn19h7

Sorry if this has been answered before, what volume control is implemented in this thing?


----------



## warrenpchi

datguy said:


> So is 100000400 the first one?
> 
> If so we reached 200 guys !
> 
> ...


 
  
 Okay sure, why not?  CT awarded, as I said I would.


----------



## DatGuy

i went to the previous page and my dreams were shattered. Thanks for nothing Warren 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Edit: I change my mind I love you long time


----------



## zerodeefex

warrenpchi said:


> mscott58 said:
> 
> 
> > You guys really are impossible! Talk about 'effin peer pressure.
> ...




396 was the first. I placed order 395 for something else last night. 

You freaking suck. I even scripted to tell me the second the page lit up .


----------



## warrenpchi

datguy said:


> I love you long time


----------



## cskippy

Any thoughts on whether this amp could do the HE-6 justice?


----------



## jexby

zerodeefex said:


> You freaking suck. I even scripted to tell me the second the page lit up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 hm, sometimes humans can still beat the bots!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


 oh wait...


----------



## warrenpchi

zerodeefex said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!
> ...


 
  
 Something else?  CRIMSON?!?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Lol, well if 396 was first, then I wasn't first after all.  So we both fail!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


cskippy said:


> Any thoughts on whether this amp could do the HE-6 justice?


 
  
 Hmm, Ima say no.


----------



## elwappo99

cskippy said:


> Any thoughts on whether this amp could do the HE-6 justice?


 
  
 Probably not. HE-6 really need an amplifier in a different league to get the juices out.


----------



## gr8soundz

cskippy said:


> Any thoughts on whether this amp could do the HE-6 justice?


 
  
 The ifi idsd micro can push the he-6 in turbo mode.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/idsd-micro-monstering-the-he-6/


----------



## ericr

kn19h7 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered before, what volume control is implemented in this thing?


 
  
 Good question!
  
 Anyone know the answer?


----------



## mscott58

warrenpchi said:


> Oh you know you love it!  Smells like team spirit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Also do I get extra credit for having ordered my LC from 39,000 ft during a bout of turbulence on a flight from PHL to SFO? Worth it in order to make the first 200 of Dr. Cavalli's (trans)portable masterpiece. 
  
 The things we do for this hobby...


----------



## Pirakaphile

So we went over 200, nice! That means Alex'll start workin' on em right away! So they'll ship early


----------



## DigitalFreak

Considering how the servers were cutting out this afternoon I'm surprised the Carbon hasn't sold out.


----------



## A2029

Hi Alex,
  
 Is there enough room within the chassis of the Liquid Carbon that I could drill a hole above the 4-pin RSA connector and attach a female 2.5mm TRRS socket? (This part: http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/SJ1-42534-SMT-TR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiVz9SCMkER55fmVuRcpjVWBNWLR2kO4I%2fCw%3d%3d)

 Thanks


----------



## warrenpchi

Lol, no one has it... the production run hasn't started... it hasn't even been on the market for 24 hours.  Of course, logically, we should all be thinking of how to mod it now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*YOU'RE AWESOME! *


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> Also do I get extra credit for having ordered my LC from 39,000 ft during a bout of turbulence on a flight from PHL to SFO? Worth it in order to make the first 200 of Dr. Cavalli's (trans)portable masterpiece.
> 
> The things we do for this hobby...


 
  
 First round's on me mate!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  BTW, your job is utterly fascinating!
  


pirakaphile said:


> So we went over 200, nice! That means Alex'll start workin' on em right away! So they'll ship early


 
  
 Yup!  Group hug everyone, we made it happen!


----------



## Poimandres

When are these shipping again? We are now in the six hundred and teens.


----------



## A2029

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, no one has it... the production run hasn't started... it hasn't even been on the market for 24 hours.  Of course, logically, we should all be thinking of how to mod it now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The designer of the amp should know of any space limitations surrounding positioning of connectors for the front panel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From images of the front of the amp on the Cavalli webpage, looks like the front panel aluminum plate of the enclosure could easily be taken off by undoing 4 screws. Then it's just a matter of drilling a small hole above the RSA socket, then soldering the 2.5mm TRRS connector to the appropriate RSA solder pads, and mounting the TRRS connector with some type of mount (even a well done glue job could be sufficient, but I'd want to do a more tidy job). This would give the ability to use balanced 2.5mm TRRS cables such as the ones that come with the JH Layla, without having to make an adaptor to connect to the RSA jack.


----------



## Poimandres

And never mind approximately 4 months.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I so loved Blade Runner. I heard they're thinking of making a sequel. This amp should have been named the Cavalli Blade Runner.


----------



## warrenpchi

swich401 said:


> This would give the ability to use balanced 3.5mm TRRS cables such as the ones that come with the JH Layla


 
  
 2.5mm?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


digitalfreak said:


> I so loved Blade Runner. I heard they're thinking of making a sequel. This amp should have been named the Cavalli Blade Runner.


 
  
 But how would they work "Liquid" into the title?  Liquid Runner?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also, pretty sure namesaking Blade Runner is Audeze's schtick at the moment.


----------



## xuan87

warrenpchi said:


> 2.5mm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 While you're at it, you may as well drill a few more holes, include a 3.5mm TRRS, and a dual 3pin XLR sockets too


----------



## musiclvr

I'm just hoping that the LC and the PeachTree Dac iT-x play nice together. I have some Headphones that I find to be picky with amps due to some uneven/not neutral treble at times. Hmmm I have never auditioned a Cavalli amp so regardless of my personal findings I am glad that I am able to say I own a Cavalli amp now!!!!


----------



## BDM-Fi

vhsownsbeta said:


> I vote that the markings on the enclosure are 'blacked out' to look more like the LAu et al.
> 
> I just want to thank Dr Cavalli again for giving a lot of us our first opportunity to have one of his creations in our homes.


 

 Here's a +1 to that; fully applying the Cavalli house design would certainly benefit the looks and consistency over the product line.


----------



## LajostheHun

Ok so I ordered one today.Currently none of my headphones have balanced cable options, and recabling would be cost more than the HP's I have[each], so I'm in the market for a new HP that can be ordered with or have a plug and play balanced cable option by it's design.
 So far I was looking at:
 Sony MDRZ7
 Audeze EL-8[open]
 Oppo Pm2
 Hifiman HE400i
 The sennh HD-600,650 
 Fostex?
 others?
  
 As you can see I wanna keep the prices close to this amps price,  definitely below  $800.
 Any thougts? I have 4 months to decide it seems.


----------



## joeexp

Oppo PM3  - a steal for the price and it's closed
 According to "InnerFidelity":"Frankly, I think this is their best headphone yet. Another one on the review short list."


----------



## LajostheHun

joeexp said:


> Oppo PM3  - a steal for the price and it's closed
> According to "InnerFidelity":"Frankly, I think this is their best headphone yet. Another one on the review short list."


 
 it has SE cable option only, but I might get it for portable use though independent from this amp.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> No, but unless someone comes forward that came before me...


 
  
 I bet I'm close.  I got my order in before the site got DDOS'd by us mad Head-Fiers.  I'm just waiting for my confirmation email...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

lajosthehun said:


> Ok so I ordered one today.Currently none of my headphones have balanced cable options, and recabling would be cost more than the HP's I have[each], so I'm in the market for a new HP that can be ordered with or have a plug and play balanced cable option by it's design.
> So far I was looking at:
> Sony MDRZ7
> Audeze EL-8[open]
> ...


 
  
 Well, I already have an HD650 with a balanced cable, and I'm looking forward to pairing it with the Carbon.  Its a very laid back headphone, very mellow and awesome for female vocals.  I have an MDR-Z7 and love it, great sub bass and fun treble, but I need to invest in a new cable.  That'll most likely be a Sony Kimber that will have to be modded, or a Moon Audio Silver Dragon.  I also have a Lawton modded Fostex TH600 modded with a balanced cable, but that needs a mod for a balanced cable...


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm in for one (you can hear the sound of my bank account groaning), the impressions I read pushed me over the edge. Looking forward to getting it...


----------



## spurxiii

Was putting in the order and had my details down and about to hit the PayPal button and thought, do I really need another amp? I closed the browser tab. Almost, so close


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

spurxiii said:


> Was putting in the order and had my details down and about to hit the PayPal button and thought, do I really need another amp? I closed the browser tab. Almost, so close


 
  
 I would recommend not reading this thread sometime around August.....


----------



## spurxiii

buttuglyjeff said:


> I would recommend not reading this thread sometime around August.....:basshead:




If this thing had a battery it would've been done and dusted lol. Is that what you're talking about. My wallet is shivering


----------



## doctorjazz

Have too many headphones, but none balanced...I'll have to decide which to upgrade (I also have a Pono, which has its own balanced connectors...jeez, when you go balanced on stereo equipment, at least they all connect the same way, this is crazy making!)


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> First round's on me mate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If I ever make it to a Canjam in California some day, we'll all have that hug.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

spurxiii said:


> If this thing had a battery it would've been done and dusted lol. Is that what you're talking about. My wallet is shivering


 
  
 No, I was implying that when these start shipping, people here are going to start glowing over this amp.  Being a good amp and people with new-gear-itis mean this place will really be over the top.  I'm secretly wondering if the good doctor ever considered offering a separate power supply, either battery powered or with huge caps to control the current...
  
  


doctorjazz said:


> Have too many headphones, but none balanced...I'll have to decide which to upgrade (I also have a Pono, which has its own balanced connectors...jeez, when you go balanced on stereo equipment, at least they all connect the same way, this is crazy making!)


 
  
 Holy smokes!!!  You do have a ton of headphones!!!  Good luck balancing all those...
  
 Are you considering feeding your Liquid Carbon from you Pono Player?


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> No, I was implying that when these start shipping, people here are going to start glowing over this amp.  Being a good amp and people with new-gear-itis mean this place will really be over the top.  I'm secretly wondering if the good doctor ever considered offering a separate power supply, either battery powered or with huge caps to control the current...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Personally, I'll wait for a formal review until I've got three amps, or at least heard three amps for a while. Just like I did with my headphones. I want to get a good impression of what the range of sound is with amps.
 Of course, that won't stop me from blabbing just my impressions of the amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

buttuglyjeff said:


> spurxiii said:
> 
> 
> > If this thing had a battery it would've been done and dusted lol. Is that what you're talking about. My wallet is shivering
> ...




Yeah, one of these days have to have a fire sale...(if you looked at my profile, it's not even updated).
I'd love to use line out from the Pono, wouldn't be a problem single ended but not sure how or if it can be done to use its balanced option line out.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> A few changes are planned. Could you kindly repost this question tomorrow when I can make a proper answer?



It's tomorrow now!


----------



## rollinbr

drgajet said:


> So far the only smallish dac with balanced xlr outputs is the emotive stealth dc-1. Any others that may be transtortable with the carbon?
> 
> Jim
> 
> ...


 
 Also the Parasound Zdac V2


----------



## doctorjazz

Again, the Pono (which I love btw), has line out and balanced outputs. But it has its own connector for the balanced, and I'm not sure about getting "interconnect" cables that would work for it as line out, may or may not be doable. I'll try to post on the Pono thread, some folks there are knowledgeable about this stuff.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

doctorjazz said:


> Again, the Pono (which I love btw), has line out and balanced outputs. But it has its own connector for the balanced, and I'm not sure about getting "interconnect" cables that would work for it as line out, may or may not be doable. I'll try to post on the Pono thread, some folks there are knowledgeable about this stuff.


 
  
 You'll need a dual 3.5mm to dual XLR interconnect to take advantage of the Pono's balanced output.  That'll be a custom cable, but I bet the folks at Moon Audio and others will be able to produce for you.  That's dual 3.5mm seems quite unique so far.  The only other product I've seen that uses that is the Sony PHA-3.
  
 On a side note, My MDR-Z7 comes with a second balanced cable that others are using to listen balanced directly out of the Pono...


----------



## AxelCloris

Is the Pono's balanced mode a line-out or is it amplified?


----------



## joeexp

http://www.cardas.com/pono_accessories.php


----------



## mscott58

New Geek Out V2 will also have balanced output (believe is 3.5mm TRRS). Could have an adapter made to run from that to the LC's XLR inputs and be balanced all along. Cheers


----------



## DVass13

mscott58 said:


> New Geek Out V2 will also have balanced output (believe is 3.5mm TRRS). Could have an adapter made to run from that to the LC's XLR inputs and be balanced all along. Cheers


 
  
 I'm actually debating selling my Geek Out 720 and upgrading to the V2 for this exact purpose. It would be a truly transportable set up that is sure to offer performance way beyond its price point.


----------



## reddog

I wonder how a Gungnir sounds with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon? Just speculating, I will sooner or later will need a dac to go with this amp.


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> I wonder how a Gungnir sounds with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon? Just speculating, I will sooner or later will need a dac to go with this amp.


 
  
 I vote Dr. C send someone (or me) a LCarbon pre-production to explore this pairing.
 or
 perhaps someone with a spare Gungnir can send it to Dr C?


----------



## BRCMRGN

I was going to pass it up, but somehow it ended up ordering itself #579. I will probably use it initially from AK240 and AK120 II.


----------



## drgajet

rollinbr said:


> Also the Parasound Zdac V2




That would work. Nice form factor, plenty of inputs, and xlr balanced output. Thanks.
How would it compare to the emotive dc-1 I wonder.

Jim


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> I vote Dr. C send someone (or me) a LCarbon pre-production to explore this pairing.
> or
> perhaps someone with a spare Gungnir can send it to Dr C?



+1 A great idea, I wish I had a Gungnir, to loan out for such a purpose.


----------



## rollinbr

drgajet said:


> That would work. Nice form factor, plenty of inputs, and xlr balanced output. Thanks.
> How would it compare to the emotive dc-1 I wonder.
> 
> Jim


 
 Personally I've not heard either one. What little I have read about the Parasound Zdac V2 is it needs 100 hours of burn in to really start to shine and show its true self. I may give the Parasound a try once the Liquid Carbon arrives. One can order from Audio Advisor and have a 30 day trial period. Just have to pay for return shipping if it doesn't suit you.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

reddog said:


> I wonder how a Gungnir sounds with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon? Just speculating, I will sooner or later will need a dac to go with this amp.


 
  
 If its worth anything, I listened to Dan's (Mr Speaker's) Liquid Glass paired with the Gungnir and that pairing was amaze-balls....


----------



## mangler

> mangler said:
> 
> 
> > Not that it matters all that much, but will the final enclosure be the same as the one in the photos on the website?
> ...


 
 Sure thing! I don't remember else who said it, but I also think it would be nice if the Liquid Carbon could maintain the current Cavalli aesthetic


----------



## Barry S

reddog said:


> I wonder how a Gungnir sounds with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon? Just speculating, I will sooner or later will need a dac to go with this amp.


 

 I'll be using my Liquid Carbon with a Gungnir, unless I find a smaller sub $1000 DAC that equals or exceeds the Gungnir's performance. I've directly compared the Gungnir with many DACs and heard it with a lot of amps, and the analog stage is dead neutral by my reckoning. Paired with the Liquid Carbon, you'll be hearing the Carbon's signature--there's nothing obtrusive about the Gungnir. It'll be interesting to compare the Gungnir's balanced outs vs. the single-ended outs feeding the Carbon.


----------



## runeight

mangler said:


> Sure thing! I don't remember else who said it, but I also think it would be nice if the Liquid Carbon could maintain the current Cavalli aesthetic


 
  
 We plan to maintain as much of the aesthetic as can be done in a much lower cost item. For example, the text on the front panel of the big amps is actually engraved into the aluminum using small end mills. This will not be possible on the Carbon. But, we should be able to make it look like a Cavalli amp. Some of those visual elements are on the proto.


----------



## runeight

pirakaphile said:


> It's tomorrow now!


 
  
 Yes it is. Since Mr. Chi did the first post, I forwarded the info to him to put at the front of the thread (a suggestion from someone). But, I know that Warren is also pretty busy.


----------



## reddog

barry s said:


> I'll be using my Liquid Carbon with a Gungnir, unless I find a smaller sub $1000 DAC that equals or exceeds the Gungnir's performance. I've directly compared the Gungnir with many DACs and heard it with a lot of amps, and the analog stage is dead neutral by my reckoning. Paired with the Liquid Carbon, you'll be hearing the Carbon's signature--there's nothing obtrusive about the Gungnir. It'll be interesting to compare the Gungnir's balanced outs vs. the single-ended outs feeding the Carbon.



+1 Thanks for your impressions, I think I will order a Gungnir later this year, to pair the Carbon.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Yes it is. Since Mr. Chi did the first post, I forwarded the info to him to put at the front of the thread (a suggestion from someone). But, I know that Warren is also pretty busy.


 
 Thank ya dude, glad to hear stuff is getting done! You're gonna have a busy couple of months ahead!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Oh beautiful.  I just got my order confirmation and its #100000405, so I'll most likely be in the first shipping batch...


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> We plan to maintain as much of the aesthetic as can be done in a much lower cost item. For example, the text on the front panel of the big amps is actually engraved into the aluminum using small end mills. This will not be possible on the Carbon. But, we should be able to make it look like a Cavalli amp. Some of those visual elements are on the proto.


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up.
  
 However, the current front button labeling (shown on your site) appears more confusing than the prototype's. How the Carbon will be labeled is no issue, but the prototype icons showing the height/setting of each button, imo, is preferred (unless you plan to add LED lighting behind the buttons). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I also wanted to ask if all the front outputs (se and bal) will work no matter the SE/BAL button position or which of the rear inputs are used? And will the 1x/3x gain setting affect all front outputs (hence removal of the H/L 3.5mm outputs)?


----------



## runeight

Yes, we do plan to add LED indicators for all three buttons. Then no confusion.  And, the outputs will work independently of which input is selected. Gain changes affect all outputs.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> Yes, we do plan to add LED indicators for all three buttons. Then no confusion.  And, the outputs will work independently of which input is selected. Gain changes affect all outputs.


 
  
 Ok. Great. Thanks.


----------



## drgajet

Ok, I have been asking about a dac for the Carbon and all repies have been appreciated but I'm going to complicate things more. So, here's my wish list.

A small chassis (transportable like the carbon)
Less expensive (no more than the Carbon)
Xlr balanced output (to go into the Carbon)
Optical and Digital input (for flexability)
and
A usb input that will work with an apple cck
not asking for much am I!

I would like to use these as a travel set up with my iPhone and iPad but still be able to input from other devices and take advantage of the balanced nature.

So far the only thing that checks all these boxes is the Parasound zdac v2.

Anyone know of anything else that may fit the bill.

Jim


----------



## Poimandres

Dr Cavalli,
 I wanted to say thanks for giving the rest of us an opportunity to own a Cavalli. 

 I do have a question as mentioned earlier there is a new v2 geekout that will have a balanced 3.5 TRRS. To my knowledge there is no line out and if previous models are any indication the output voltage will vary depending on the power selected (as the power can be selected as 100mw or 1000mw). At a certain volume (controlled in software) the amped output is a pseudo line out. What is the max and min voltage that the LC should receive in either balanced or single ended mode in this fashion? 

 Thanks again for the opportunity to own a Cavalli and I look forward to receiving it.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

poimandres said:


> Dr Cavalli,
> I wanted to say thanks for giving the rest of us an opportunity to own a Cavalli.
> 
> I do have a question as mentioned earlier there is a new v2 geekout that will have a balanced 3.5 TRRS. To my knowledge there is no line out and if previous models are any indication the output voltage will vary depending on the power selected (as the power can be selected as 100mw or 1000mw). At a certain volume (controlled in software) the amped output is a pseudo line out. What is the max and min voltage that the LC should receive in either balanced or single ended mode in this fashion?
> ...


 

 I am looking at this as an option for balanced too. My understanding is that the GO must be at -0 dbs for bit perfect output. On the specs page it states this will be 4 vrms.
  
http://marketplace.lhlabs.com/products/geek-out-v2-usb-dac-headphone-amplifier
  
 "*Maximum Output Voltage:* 4.0 Vrms in high gain setting"


----------



## runeight

The LC in unity mode will have no problem with 4VRMS. It can handle more than that.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> The LC in unity mode will have no problem with 4VRMS. It can handle more than that.


 
  
 Thanks. The 'pseudo line out' output impedance is 0.47 Ohm SE and 0.95 Ohm BAL. Forgive my rudimentary understanding of EE, but will that also be suitable for the LC?


----------



## runeight

The Zo of the source is no problem. Are you coming from a headphone output??


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> The Zo of the source is no problem. Are you coming from a headphone output??


 

 Thanks. Yes, it is a DAC/HPA with dual SE and BAL outputs.
  
http://marketplace.lhlabs.com/products/geek-out-v2-usb-dac-headphone-amplifier


----------



## money4me247

drgajet said:


> Ok, I have been asking about a dac for the Carbon and all repies have been appreciated but I'm going to complicate things more. So, here's my wish list.
> 
> A small chassis (transportable like the carbon)
> Less expensive (no more than the Carbon)
> ...




I wld be interested in answers to this question as well! thxs


----------



## gr8soundz

Not sure you'll find a "portable amp" with ALL those features.
  
 Only ones I can think of (Hugo, idsd Micro, Alo CDM) are either too expensive and/or still missing 1-2 desired features.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Not sure you'll find a "portable amp" with ALL those features.
> 
> Only ones I can think of (Hugo, idsd Micro, Alo CDM) are either too expensive and/or still missing 1-2 desired features.


 
  
 CDM is just a well-tuned Wolfson DAC... the magic is in the tube amp.  If you want a portable Wolfson DAC, just get a 1st gen X3 or something.
  
 (To be clear, I love the sound of the CDM, but using it only as a DAC makes no sense.)


----------



## Barry S

..nevermind..


----------



## Poimandres

runeight said:


> The Zo of the source is no problem. Are you coming from a headphone output??



Yes.


----------



## bearFNF

OK, finally got home and got this puppy ordered. Now the wait begins.


----------



## joeexp

bearfnf said:


> OK, finally got home and got this puppy ordered. Now the wait begins.


 

 What is your confirmation number? Just to gauge how many have been ordered already...


----------



## goldendarko

bearfnf said:


> OK, finally got home and got this puppy ordered. Now the wait begins.


 

 Also, can we please get some more smiley face animations


----------



## bearFNF

joeexp said:


> What is your confirmation number? Just to gauge how many have been ordered already...


 
 Don't got one yet...will let you know when I get it.
  


goldendarko said:


> Also, can we please get some more smiley face animations


 
 It's more about the popcorn and beer than the smiley's...


----------



## aqsw

Cavalli =


----------



## aqsw

I'm hoping Cavalli only does one run. I want to be one of the privileged few!


----------



## chart54

drgajet said:


> Ok, I have been asking about a dac for the Carbon and all repies have been appreciated but I'm going to complicate things more. So, here's my wish list.
> 
> A small chassis (transportable like the carbon)
> Less expensive (no more than the Carbon)
> ...


 
 Venturecraft Vantum
 Less expensive (around US$ 550)
 Optical and digital input
 Balanced out (2.5 trrs)
 DSD 128
 Work with an apple cck ,pc and android.


----------



## gr8soundz

chart54 said:


> Venturecraft Vantum


 
  
 Nice find.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

But he is looking for a DAC with dual XLR out....
  
_edit 1_ - What about the Teac UD-301?
  
http://www.teac.com/product/ud-301/images/
  
 Is it too large?  And I'm not sure if you could do the CCK trick for iDevices....
  
_edit 2 - _And B&H is running a $100 rebate till June 30th
  
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1066416-REG/teac_ud_301_b_dual_monaural_digital_to_analog.html


----------



## crixnet

buttuglyjeff said:


> But he is looking for a DAC with dual XLR out....


 
  
  
                     D'oh!


----------



## AxelCloris

buttuglyjeff said:


> But he is looking for a DAC with dual XLR out....
> 
> _edit 1_ - What about the Teac UD-301?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amazon has the same rebate. $299 after all is said and done.


----------



## Stillhart

I've heard not-great things about the Teac.  I think it's worth considering the value of a good DAC with SE output vs a bad DAC with Balanced.  My Adcom GDA-600 going SE into my balanced amp sounds better than my balanced DAC going into my balanced amp...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

How about the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus?
  
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/hifi-and-home-cinema/dacmagic-plus
  
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/872732-REG/Cambridge_Audio_cambdamagi_b_DacMagic_Plus_Digital.html


----------



## Poimandres

How about the emotive stealth dc-1.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I've working on the Liquid Crimson this afternoon because we are starting to ship them and those customers have been waiting for a few months.
  
 However, I'm back to this now and I'm very happy to say that we passed the 200 mark in the first 24 hours. Thanks very much to all of you.
  
 Now we begin the production process which begins with some simple things like placing orders for some of the longer lead time parts. We will keep you all regularly informed at significant points along the way.
  
 This is going to be fun (although maybe with a few sleepless nights thrown in).


----------



## Barry S

poimandres said:


> How about the emotive stealth dc-1.


 
  
 The DC-1 is an excellent DAC, and a really good value.


----------



## elwappo99

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I've working on the Liquid Crimson this afternoon because we are starting to ship them and those customers have been waiting for a few months.
> 
> However, I'm back to this now and I'm very happy to say that we passed the 200 mark in the first 24 hours. Thanks very much to all of you.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
Don't worry, head-fiers are known for their exceptional patience and willingness to wait! ​  ​  ​  ​ ​  ​


----------



## DPogster

Don't know how it happened but somehow I ended up ordering one:rolleyes:. Now looking for a good transportable dac to couple with it :mad:.


----------



## Poimandres

Anyone know of any reviews on the gustard x12?


----------



## doctorjazz

dpogster said:


> Don't know how it happened but somehow I ended up ordering one:rolleyes:. Now looking for a good transportable dac to couple with it :mad:.




join the club...if you told me I was doing this 2 days ago, I'd have told you you're nuts. Hopefully it lives up to the hype!!! (I'm finding not everything does...)


----------



## lramirez1959

dpogster said:


> Don't know how it happened but somehow I ended up ordering one:rolleyes:. Now looking for a good transportable dac to couple with it :mad:.




Accidents happen :rolleyes: 

Perhaps concero would be a good march


----------



## DPogster

lramirez1959 said:


> Accidents happen :rolleyes:
> 
> Perhaps concero would be a good march




Amazing how some accidents just happen . Thanks for the concero tip. Will look into.


----------



## xuan87

barry s said:


> The DC-1 is an excellent DAC, and a really good value.


 
  
 I'm getting one, along with the Airmotiv 5S, during their summer sales, because I'm a cheap ***** 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Was looking for a cheap but good balanced DAC with a neutral sound signature and so far, the DC-1 is the only one that fits the bill.


----------



## aqsw

xuan87 said:


> I'm getting one, along with the Airmotiv 5S, during their summer sales, because I'm a cheap ***** :tongue_smile:
> 
> Was looking for a cheap but good balanced DAC with a neutral sound signature and so far, the DC-1 is the only one that fits the bill.




When does the summer sale start? Please dont say in the summer!


----------



## DPogster

DC-1 looks interesting... Transportable though?


----------



## Poimandres

Been doing some research on the Gustard X12 and I am now leaning towards that. MD has them for 439.


----------



## Stillhart

poimandres said:


> Been doing some research on the Gustard X12 and I am now leaning towards that. MD has them for 439.


 
  
 From what I gather, it's a pretty solid Sabre implementation.  @conquerator2 wrote a nice comparison of the X12 vs NFB7 vs Gungnir in Purrin's DAC thread.  You might try to look that up (it was this morning, a few pages back).


----------



## lukeap69

@stuartmc had been sharing his impressions of X12 over at the Gustard H10 thread.


----------



## Poimandres

Thanks I had saw Stuart's comments in the aune thread.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

runeight said:


> This is going to be fun (although maybe with a few sleepless nights thrown in).


 
  
 It's only fair.  Your Liquid Fire has given me plenty of fun sleepless nights due to me listening far too long and realizing too late that it's way past midnight and I should have gone to bed long ago.  So consider this payback.


----------



## xuan87

aqsw said:


> When does the summer sale start? Please dont say in the summer!


 
  
 Hahah, I do believe they have both a summer sale and a fall/winter sale. Looking at past years, the summer sale starts in the first week of June.
  


dpogster said:


> DC-1 looks interesting... Transportable though?


 
  
 It's one of the smaller options out there but I won't really say that it's transportable.... It's probably larger and heavier than the Liquid Carbon. You'll have to look at the actual weight and dimensions and decide if it's suitable for you.


----------



## joeexp

I know where the inspiration has come from


----------



## elwappo99

runeight said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > It's tomorrow now!
> ...


 
  
 Did @warrenpchi ever get a chance to update the first post with this info? I can't seem to find any changes.


----------



## runeight

You know, it looks like he hasn't yet.
  
 Here are the two things I sent:
  

Illumination – status LEDs for the three front panel switches.
A product worthy enclosure. The current enclosure is a prototype that has the general outlines of a production piece, but doesn’t have the final design or finish.
  
 I've mentioned the first one already and the second, I think, you guys would expect already. I just wanted everyone to have no doubts.


----------



## mksuen

Would this be a waste if I just ran it single ended?
  
 I don't have a balanced DAC nor do I currently have any balanced headphones ><


----------



## AxelCloris

mksuen said:


> Would this be a waste if I just ran it single ended?
> 
> I don't have a balanced DAC nor do I currently have any balanced headphones ><


 
  
 Nope, it wouldn't be a waste at all. It's still splitting the L/R inside the amp and then only combining them on output so you'll still get some of the benefit a balanced amp provides.


----------



## BDM-Fi

runeight said:


> I've mentioned the first one already and the second, I think, you guys would expect already. I just wanted everyone to have no doubts.


 
 I guess we did, given your impeccable track record in this regard, but nice to hear that confirmed.

 Is the impossibility to engrave the markings on the amp a consequence of the small size of the engravings or more of a cost issue, or something else maybe?


----------



## Stillhart

Random question:  does the SE output of this work similar to the 3-board beta22 (active ground)?  That is supposed to give some of the benefits of balanced to the SE output.


----------



## runeight

bdm-fi said:


> I guess we did, given your impeccable track record in this regard, but nice to hear that confirmed.
> 
> Is the impossibility to engrave the markings on the amp a consequence of the small size of the engravings or more of a cost issue, or something else maybe?


 
  
 There are three reasons, two you guessed. The front panel is too thin compared to the big amps, the cost is far too high, and the letters are too small.


----------



## runeight

Besides, for small amp like this you'll want something that's very visible.


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> Random question:  does the SE output of this work similar to the 3-board beta22 (active ground)?  That is supposed to give some of the benefits of balanced to the SE output.


 
  
 No, it does not do this because that would add more complexity to the electronics. I have heard arguments both ways about the benefits of active ground. And in the CTH DIY amp we used an active ground because it was a necessity, but I can't say whether it improves the sonics or not.
  
 My general working theory is that, most of the time, keep things simple. Obviously, you can't always do this and sometimes more complexity will help, but a lot of the time simple elegant solutions will be the best.


----------



## Insidious Meme

mksuen said:


> Would this be a waste if I just ran it single ended?
> 
> I don't have a balanced DAC nor do I currently have any balanced headphones ><


 Based on what Alex said earlier, I'd look at this amp if I have or was buying a balanced ended headphone or even a balanced cable for a current headphone in the near future. But that's me...


----------



## MattTCG

Will the production model still be aluminum/black or might that change also?


----------



## elwappo99

mksuen said:


> Would this be a waste if I just ran it single ended?
> 
> I don't have a balanced DAC nor do I currently have any balanced headphones ><


 
  
 Buying a balanced amplifier and only using it SE, means you are roughly only using half of the amplifier, so in that sense people might call it a "waste".
  
 On the other hand, if you don't have balanced headphones or a balanced DAC, it can seem like a large $$$ plunge to "go balanced". The Carbon is among the lowest prices around for a balanced amplifier. A balanced DAC will run another $500 (minimum-ish) and headphone cabling can run from $8 in parts to $500 for a fancy cable. If you're in this category, my personal advice would be not fret too much, as long as in the long run you plan on at least balancing your headphones. 
  
 A somewhat fun aspect of the second category is that you can "rediscover" your amplifier so to speak. If you run it SE for a few weeks/months and then get a balanced cable, you'll be able to notice the difference, and give a little more appreciation to the whole thing.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I also depends on what headphones you use.  I wouldn't use a Beyer T1 single ended, but a pair of Grados I wouldn't even consider a recable...


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> No, it does not do this because that would add more complexity to the electronics. I have heard arguments both ways about the benefits of active ground. And in the CTH DIY amp we used an active ground because it was a necessity, but I can't say whether it improves the sonics or not.
> 
> My general working theory is that, most of the time, keep things simple. Obviously, you can't always do this and sometimes more complexity will help, but a lot of the time simple elegant solutions will be the best.


 
  
 Thanks, that makes sense.  I was just curious... I may build myself a beta22 at some point just for fun...maybe I'll build one of each and see if I can tell the difference...  lol


----------



## doctorjazz

I have to find out how to get the Pono to output balanced (I use it line out to a Ray Samuels HR-2 at present), believe it is possible, and it is a (relatively) low cost dap, high resolution, balanced, and I ALREADY HAVE IT! (and, I think it is a great dap). And, I'm in the marked for balanced cables for my headphones, as soon as I figure which I want to balance, LOL (I guess you'd say I'm fundamentally unbalanced :blink:


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Besides, for small amp like this you'll want something that's very visible.


 
 It's a cool little amp, but you know what it needs? Holes. In the chassis.


----------



## money4me247

doctorjazz said:


> I have to find out how to get the Pono to output balanced (I use it line out to a Ray Samuels HR-2 at present), believe it is possible, and it is a (relatively) low cost dap, high resolution, balanced, and I ALREADY HAVE IT! (and, I think it is a great dap). And, I'm in the marked for balanced cables for my headphones, as soon as I figure which I want to balance, LOL (I guess you'd say I'm fundamentally unbalanced :blink:




you wld just need a custom cable such as:
http://www.surfcables.com/products/ponoplayer-cables
http://www.cardas.com/pono_accessories.php

or ask mimic cable if they can make one for you if you on a budget & are not looking for fancy cable material compositions.

can get balanced either running pono >LC>headphones or pono>headphones depending on how many cables you want to buy


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks, I'll have to look into one of those options now that I ordered that LC, wouldn't want half the amp going to waste, would we? 


money4me247 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I have to find out how to get the Pono to output balanced (I use it line out to a Ray Samuels HR-2 at present), believe it is possible, and it is a (relatively) low cost dap, high resolution, balanced, and I ALREADY HAVE IT! (and, I think it is a great dap). And, I'm in the marked for balanced cables for my headphones, as soon as I figure which I want to balance, LOL (I guess you'd say I'm fundamentally unbalanced :blink:
> ...


----------



## BDM-Fi

runeight said:


> There are three reasons, two you guessed. The front panel is too thin compared to the big amps, the cost is far too high, and the letters are too small.


 
 Quote:


runeight said:


> Besides, for small amp like this you'll want something that's very visible.


 
 It seems I only got a 2/4 . Makes total sense BTW and looking forward to the final design 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Serenitty

buttuglyjeff said:


> I also depends on what headphones you use.  I wouldn't use a Beyer T1 single ended, but a pair of Grados I wouldn't even consider a recable...


 

 I'm curious on why you say this on the T1.  I already ordered the parts to re-terminate my T1 and make a balanced to 1/4  TRS Se adapter cable, but I'm curious why you wouldn't run the T1 SE.
  
 It was after I placed the order that I started wondering if the amp would work well with my T1.  The discussions about SE having 1/4 the power available prompted me to buy the parts.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

serenitty said:


> I'm curious on why you say this on the T1.  I already ordered the parts to re-terminate my T1 and make a balanced to 1/4  TRS Se adapter cable, but I'm curious why you wouldn't run the T1 SE.
> 
> It was after I placed the order that I started wondering if the amp would work well with my T1.  The discussions about SE having 1/4 the power available prompted me to buy the parts.
> 
> Thanks,


 
  
 Do reterminate your T1s.  I say the Liquid Carbon will need all its power to drive the T1s well, don't use it single ended.  If you owned, lets say, a Fostex TH900, or a Grado PS1000, single ended would be fine.  They demand far less voltage swing.  T1 owned will almost always suggest an OTL tube amp (of course the rest of Alex's stable of amps would also do wonders).
  
 Sorry if I confused you...


----------



## Serenitty

buttuglyjeff said:


> Do reterminate your T1s.  I say the Liquid Carbon will need all its power to drive the T1s well, don't use it single ended.  If you owned, lets say, a Fostex TH900, or a Grado PS1000, single ended would be fine.  They demand far less voltage swing.  T1 owned will almost always suggest an OTL tube amp (of course the rest of Alex's stable of amps would also do wonders).
> 
> Sorry if I confused you...




So your reason is pretty much the same as mine. I am currently using a BH Crack to drive the T1's so I agree on the OTL amp... 

I ordered the parts because I figured I'd want the voltage swing with the 600 ohm cans.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

serenitty said:


> So your reason is pretty much the same as mine. I am currently using a BH Crack to drive the T1's so I agree on the OTL amp...
> 
> I ordered the parts because I figured I'd want the voltage swing with the 600 ohm cans.


 
  
 Well, make sure you can adapt back to your BHC....


----------



## bearFNF

Still no email with an order number for my Carbon.  Then again I never got one for the LL2 I just received either.  Must just be me...


----------



## Cryok95

bearfnf said:


> Still no email with an order number for my Carbon.  Then again I never got one for the LL2 I just received either.  Must just be me...:blink:



Might be your email settings? Check the junk/spam folder.


----------



## bearFNF

cryok95 said:


> Might be your email settings? Check the junk/spam folder.


 
 Nope, been checking there, as I always do before I trash them.  Alex just emailed to check my spam folder, too. He said he will get me the info as soon as he can. Burning in the LL2 right now, this is gonna be fun!!!  Sounds great so far.


----------



## runeight

Sometimes the emails are trapped at spam filters at the ISP. Almost all of the issues we've had with people not getting confirmations have been because they got trapped in spam filters before they reached their computers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 But, we're past all of these issues now and just moving forward to the point where we can start production.


----------



## Serenitty

buttuglyjeff said:


> Well, make sure you can adapt back to your BHC....




I'm going to make a 4-pin XLR to 1/4 TRS adapter at the same time I re terminate the T1. Which will all take place months before the amp arrives. 

Sadly I'm also reading the Ether thread with great interest.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Sometimes the emails are trapped at spam filters at the ISP. Almost all of the issues we've had with people not getting confirmations have been because they got trapped in spam filters before they reached their computers.
> 
> 
> But, we're past all of these issues now and just moving forward to the point where we can start production.



You should open a twitter account and post selfies every time you put another component in each amp! Of course, the first 50 will probably ship sometime december 2019..


----------



## Beolab

Im a happy owner of the the Abyss and a Black Hugo, and in a search of a good compact sounding amp that is "wife friendly".
So i am very curious if anyone have hade the opportunity to listen to the Abyss + Carbon combo yet, and can give me some input?? 

I know the amp are a little weak in power, but i think it can play louder and with more stigma and control than my current Hugo setup. 

( The Hugo just deliver about 650 mW at 85Ohm) 

What is your thoughts


/ Fredrik


----------



## runeight

I have Abyss, but surprisingly I haven't yet listened to them from the Carbon. There are several pressing things at the moment, but when I get a chance I'll try it out.


----------



## zerodeefex

beolab said:


> Im a happy owner of the the Abyss and a Black Hugo, and in a search of a good compact sounding amp that is "wife friendly".
> So i am very curious if anyone have hade the opportunity to listen to the Abyss + Carbon combo yet, and can give me some input??
> 
> I know the amp are a little weak in power, but i think it can play louder and with more stigma and control than my current Hugo setup.
> ...


 
 Given the cost of your other gear, the investment in the carbon seems small to find out 
  
 Alternatively, you can wait until the May 2nd SF Bay mini meet and I'll bring my Abyss. Warren mentioned he might have a loaner Carbon and we can test them together.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Ok guys, according to well versed ears who heard the Carbon at CanJam I need a new DAC because my CLAS just won't cut the mustard. I'd prefer to keep my budget between 750 to 1000 USD but am willing to move as far up as 1500 if this new DAC truly wows me. Any suggestions?


----------



## aqsw

I totally understand you freak. I am in the exact position you are and looking for the same thing. I just sold my bifrost and im dacless.

I still have the oppo ha1, but will probably use that as my office unit when the carbon comes. Looking for the perfect dac

Be pretty funny if two Winnipegers get the same units.

GO JETS GO


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, according to well versed ears who heard the Carbon at CanJam I need a new DAC because my CLAS just won't cut the mustard. I'd prefer to keep my budget between 750 to 1000 USD but am willing to move as far up as 1500 if this new DAC truly wows me. Any suggestions?


 
  
 Spend some time on eBay and pick up a vintage R2R DAC.  This Theta I just got is something else.  I have only been listening to it for a bit and already I can tell that it spanks the Sabre in the treble (both in realism and detail).  I'm still trying to get a good feel for the rest of the sound, but so far so goo.  And well under $750...


----------



## xuan87

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, according to well versed ears who heard the Carbon at CanJam I need a new DAC because my CLAS just won't cut the mustard. I'd prefer to keep my budget between 750 to 1000 USD but am willing to move as far up as 1500 if this new DAC truly wows me. Any suggestions?


 
  
 At 750USD, I'll probably go for the Audio-GD DAC19 Anniversary Edition, but that's a SE DAC. Still, it's limited in quantity and is a R2R DAC.
  
 If balanced you can considered the Schiit's Gungir is one of the cheaper balanced DAC out there.
  
 Or you can stretch your budget and go for a Chord Hugo or a Schiit Yggdrasil.


----------



## goldendarko

xuan87 said:


> At 750USD, I'll probably go for the Audio-GD DAC19 Anniversary Edition, but that's a SE DAC. Still, it's limited in quantity and is a R2R DAC.
> 
> If balanced you can considered the Schiit's Gungir is one of the cheaper balanced DAC out there.
> 
> Or you can stretch your budget and go for a Chord Hugo or a Schiit Yggdrasil.


 

 Isn't the new Chord (2Qute I think it's called) the same DAC as the Hugo with a less options/lower price? Might be a good fit, not sure exact price on it though, but might be a better fit than the Hugo since you won't need the amp section of the Hugo.


----------



## bugula

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, according to well versed ears who heard the Carbon at CanJam I need a new DAC because my CLAS just won't cut the mustard. I'd prefer to keep my budget between 750 to 1000 USD but am willing to move as far up as 1500 if this new DAC truly wows me. Any suggestions?


 
 echoing golden darko above...but you could also go after a used hugo.


----------



## xuan87

goldendarko said:


> Isn't the new Chord (2Qute I think it's called) the same DAC as the Hugo with a less options/lower price? Might be a good fit, not sure exact price on it though, but might be a better fit than the Hugo since you won't need the amp section of the Hugo.


 
  
 After reading up quickly on the 2qute, I think your recommendation is better than the Hugo. I only mentioned Hugo because that was the setup (Hugo+LC) used in Canjam that everyone was raving about.


----------



## pippen99

There will be a Liquid Carbon at the Nashville meet on Saturday.  I will be making the three hour drive to find out what I got myself into.  Also Norne will have cables there as I will need sometime to get a balanced cable for the LCD-2f.


----------



## Stillhart

goldendarko said:


> Isn't the new Chord (2Qute I think it's called) the same DAC as the Hugo with a less options/lower price? Might be a good fit, not sure exact price on it though, but might be a better fit than the Hugo since you won't need the amp section of the Hugo.


 
  
 Yes indeed, it's a bare-bones non-portable DAC with the same chip as the Hugo.  Seeing as how the Hugo sounds amazing, the 2Qute should be a nice option.
  


bugula said:


> echoing golden darko above...but you could also go after a used hugo.


 
  
 I think the 2Qute is in the $1k-1300 range?  Way cheaper than a used Hugo.


----------



## goldendarko

stillhart said:


> Yes indeed, it's a bare-bones non-portable DAC with the same chip as the Hugo.  Seeing as how the Hugo sounds amazing, the 2Qute should be a nice option.
> 
> 
> I think the 2Qute is in the $1k-1300 range?  Way cheaper than a used Hugo.



 


Wow, still a bit more than I thought it was, I figured it would be sub $1k, must be a good DAC in the Hugo then.


----------



## gr8soundz

Just noticed all the Chord dacs (Hugo, 2Qute, TT) only support up to DSD128 but only over DoP.
  
 From all the reviews and comments, I know they still sound great but is there an affordable balanced dac out there with native DSD256 support?
  
 I already have the iFi idsd Micro and plan to use the rca outs to xlr. Nothing out there can match its dac spec sheet but if I change to another dac (for balancing) would it be a downgrade, upgrade, or lateral move (I haven't been able to hear other dacs for comparison other than my e17 which is no match for the ifi)?


----------



## joeexp

What about the M2Tech Young DSD;
 http://www.sourcesystemsltd.com/Brand-M2Tech
 http://www.iglooaudio.co.uk/product/m2tech-young-dsd-dac/


----------



## GCTD

gr8soundz said:


> Just noticed all the Chord dacs (Hugo, 2Qute, TT) only support up to DSD128 but only over DoP.
> 
> From all the reviews and comments, I know they still sound great but is there an affordable balanced dac out there with native DSD256 support?
> 
> I already have the iFi idsd Micro and plan to use the rca outs to xlr. Nothing out there can match its dac spec sheet but if I change to another dac (for balancing) would it be a downgrade, upgrade, or lateral move (I haven't been able to hear other dacs for comparison other than my e17 which is no match for the ifi)?




The Matrix Mini-i-Pro supports 32bit 384khz, and 64/128/256 DSD, it's also balanced and under 600USD. I might consider it myself just to pair up with the Liquid Carbon. I just need to read up more on it and compare it with Gustard X12 and that Teac dac that someone else recommended.


----------



## DigitalFreak

gctd said:


> The Matrix Mini-i-Pro supports 32bit 384khz, and 64/128/256 DSD, it's also balanced and under 600USD. I might consider it myself just to pair up with the Liquid Carbon. I just need to read up more on it and compare it with Gustard X12 and that Teac dac that someone else recommended.




I did a written review on the mini I pro awhile back for both Guru and Audio360. Matrix makes nice stuff, loved the mini I pro but it's DAC wasn't that far ahead of my CLAS-db. The big difference was my CLAS was the more mellow of the two while the Mini had better PRAT and was less smooth. Great amp section by the way, wonderful all in one in a small package with great build quality. I was hoping to find a DAC that would be a firm couple of steps ahead of my CLAS in the sound dept though.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I've been thinking about the 2Qute as a good option as a CLAS replacement guys. The AudioGD DAC19 is interesting in that I've been curious about AudioGD stuff for awhile.


----------



## DigitalFreak

gr8soundz said:


> Just noticed all the Chord dacs (Hugo, 2Qute, TT) only support up to DSD128 but only over DoP.
> 
> From all the reviews and comments, I know they still sound great but is there an affordable balanced dac out there with native DSD256 support?
> 
> I already have the iFi idsd Micro and plan to use the rca outs to xlr. Nothing out there can match its dac spec sheet but if I change to another dac (for balancing) would it be a downgrade, upgrade, or lateral move (I haven't been able to hear other dacs for comparison other than my e17 which is no match for the ifi)?




That would depend on the DAC you choose. You're having the same problem I am. You're wondering if DAC A is worth replacing DAC B with it.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Scratch the 2Qute from the list. A quick Google search has pricing popping up just under 1800 USD


----------



## lukeap69

It's not too cute after all.


----------



## Poimandres

Please let us know what you ultimately decide to go with. There are a lot of us in this boat. 

Will it really matter if the Dac is SE or balanced? If I recall doesn't the LC split the SE ended signal into balanced? Would that be much of a difference than utilizing a balanced Dac?

I apologize for the questions however I have never really looked into a balanced setup. Would the upcoming ifi idac2 be a good choice?


----------



## Beolab

That sounds awesome if you have that opportunity, just to make shore it dosent breaks up at middle volume, and can give me a hum of how big the diffrence is up to det Gold or Glass.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Yes indeed, it's a bare-bones non-portable DAC with the same chip as the Hugo.  Seeing as how the Hugo sounds amazing, the 2Qute should be a nice option.
> 
> 
> I think the 2Qute is in the $1k-1300 range?  Way cheaper than a used Hugo.


 
  
 More like $1800..
  
 I think I'd chase a used Hugo instead


----------



## bugula

stillhart said:


> Yes indeed, it's a bare-bones non-portable DAC with the same chip as the Hugo.  Seeing as how the Hugo sounds amazing, the 2Qute should be a nice option.
> 
> 
> I think the 2Qute is in the $1k-1300 range?  Way cheaper than a used Hugo.


 
 he mentioned his upper end was $1500. you can get a used hugo for $1500.


----------



## Pirakaphile

All this talk of affordable balanced DACs and I keep seeing 4 digits every time! I'm gonna be slumming it with the Modi until next year when I get the Gungnir. I refuse to spend more than $1k on headphone equipment! It'll make me feel bad! 

Of course, once I get into speakers, I'm gonna have to stretch the budget, won't I? Fudgebuckets


----------



## lukeap69

There are balanced DACs under 1k. Check Audio-gd.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

pirakaphile said:


> All this talk of affordable balanced DACs and I keep seeing 4 digits every time! I'm gonna be slumming it with the Modi until next year when I get the Gungnir. I refuse to spend more than $1k on headphone equipment! It'll make me feel bad!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you don't need DSD you have a look at the HRT music streamer hd.
  
http://www.hirestech.com/product/?pid=116


----------



## Pirakaphile

vhsownsbeta said:


> If you don't need DSD you have a look at the HRT music streamer hd.
> 
> http://www.hirestech.com/product/?pid=116



Definitely don't need DSD, I've got weeks of music in 16/44.1 on my computer and I'm totally cool with CD quality. 
I'll look into that little dude, but I'm sold so far on Schiit.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

pirakaphile said:


> Definitely don't need DSD, I've got weeks of music in 16/44.1 on my computer and I'm totally cool with CD quality.
> I'll look into that little dude, but I'm sold so far on Schiit.


 

 The HRT microstreamer is an amazing little device. I haven't heard the music streamer, but some reviewers seem pretty enamoured with it...
  
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/hrt_musicstreamer.htm
  
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue69/music_streamer.htm
  
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/viewpoint-hrt-music-streamer-hd/
  
 Contrary to some of the reviews, it does 24/192 on PC now too.
  
 Bus powered and balanced out. On paper it seems a good match for the LC.


----------



## Pirakaphile

vhsownsbeta said:


> The HRT microstreamer is an amazing little device. I haven't heard the music streamer, but some reviewers seem pretty enamoured with it...
> 
> http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/hrt_musicstreamer.htm
> 
> ...



The reviews are looking pretty good, I'll have to wage a little internal war as I read up. I've plenty of time to decide anyway.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> I've been thinking about the 2Qute as a good option as a CLAS replacement guys. The AudioGD DAC19 is interesting in that I've been curious about AudioGD stuff for awhile.



I'll be reviewing the dac19 in a few weeks if you're curious. 

To the person who asked whether a balanced DAC was worth it, I'd say no IMO. Lots of folks here are forgetting that the LC was demoed with an SE DAC at CanJam. It got all that hype and praise with the Hugo. Proof that a balanced DAC isn't necessary.


----------



## Barry S

stillhart said:


> I'll be reviewing the dac19 in a few weeks if you're curious.
> 
> To the person who asked whether a balanced DAC was worth it, I'd say no IMO. Lots of folks here are forgetting that the LC was demoed with an SE DAC at CanJam. It got all that hype and praise with the Hugo. Proof that a balanced DAC isn't necessary.


 

 You may be right about this. The question isn't so much whether the LC sounds good out of a single-ended DAC (we're assuming that's yes), but how much better (if any) it sounds fed by a balanced DAC. I'd worry less about SE vs. balanced, and concentrate more on finding a DAC with an excellent reputation.  As an experiment, I'm going to compare the single-ended vs. balanced outs on my Gungnir into the Raganrok, and out to my LCD-X via the balanced output.


----------



## Pirakaphile

barry s said:


> You may be right about this. The question isn't so much whether the LC sounds good out of a single-ended DAC (we're assuming that's yes), but how much better (if any) it sounds fed by a balanced DAC. I'd worry less about SE vs. balanced, and concentrate more on finding a DAC with an excellent reputation.  As an experiment, I'm going to compare the single-ended vs. balanced outs on my Gungnir into the Raganrok, and out to my LCD-X via the balanced output.



Do share with us your impressions! We'll give you hugs. Or something.


----------



## Stillhart

barry s said:


> You may be right about this. The question isn't so much whether the LC sounds good out of a single-ended DAC (we're assuming that's yes), but how much better (if any) it sounds fed by a balanced DAC. I'd worry less about SE vs. balanced, and concentrate more on finding a DAC with an excellent reputation.  As an experiment, I'm going to compare the single-ended vs. balanced outs on my Gungnir into the Raganrok, and out to my LCD-X via the balanced output.



I tried the SE vs Balanced outs on my Theta and the main difference is that the balanced out is WAY louder. It's going to be a bit of work to swap cables and volume match to listen for subtle differences, but I'll take one for the team later.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I think if budget is an issue, I'd totally focus on balancing the headphones first.  That way you can take full advantage of the amp's potential.  The good Dr. already said he's addressed spitting single ended DACs.  Which is most likely why the Hugo was such a hit.  I'm not saying balanced DACs are hog wash, just smaller rewards in terms of the Liquid Carbon maybe...


----------



## joeexp

I am sure Dr. Cavalli's Phase Splitter implementation is top-notch. SE input is fine! Just make sure you Headphones have balanced wiring.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Balanced cables start at $80 for HiFiMAN it seems. Time to work a few extra shifts!


----------



## AxelCloris

pirakaphile said:


> Balanced cables start at $80 for HiFiMAN it seems. Time to work a few extra shifts!


 
  
 Or about $6 if you have a soldering iron and a few minutes to re-terminate an existing cable.


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> Or about $6 if you have a soldering iron and a few minutes to re-terminate an existing cable.



I don't trust myself to keep everything intact. And I'm sick of my cable sounding like a slinky. I'd do it if I had a little experience, but I haven't soldered since middle school.


----------



## Poimandres

Good point, as soon as the LC gets here it will be time to reterminate my 650 cables.


----------



## ejong7

Is the LC gonna come with an appropriate power plug?
  
 And can anybody suggest XLR to XLR cables that I can get at a decent price in the UK?


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> I don't trust myself to keep everything intact. And I'm sick of my cable sounding like a slinky. I'd do it if I had a little experience, but I haven't soldered since middle school.


 
  
 I hadn't either, but I've made two cables so far and they work fine.  And you know what?  XLR connectors are EASY MODE soldering!  
  
 That said, soldering tools will cost you more than that $80 cable.  lol


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> I hadn't either, but I've made two cables so far and they work fine.  And you know what?  XLR connectors are EASY MODE soldering!
> 
> That said, soldering tools will cost you more than that $80 cable.  lol



Well I do already have a soldering iron.. It's just a matter of getting the materials then.


----------



## AxelCloris

pirakaphile said:


> Well I do already have a soldering iron.. It's just a matter of getting the materials then.


 
  
 I recommend grabbing some cabling and a few terminators and just giving it a go. Then test with a meter and you'll be comfortable in no time. We have a 4 month wait before the LC ships so why not do something constructive in that time?


----------



## xuan87

We were just talking about the Gustard X12 DAC earlier in the thread and look what just turned up on Massdrop? The Gustard X12. Is that fate or what?


----------



## Stillhart

xuan87 said:


> We were just talking about the Gustard X12 DAC earlier in the thread and look what just turned up on Massdrop? The Gustard X12. Is that fate or what?


 
  
 It's been up for a week, which is why there's been so much talk about it lately.    It ends in 12 hours...


----------



## ejong7

xuan87 said:


> We were just talking about the Gustard X12 DAC earlier in the thread and look what just turned up on Massdrop? The Gustard X12. Is that fate or what?


 

 I think they were talking about it because it WAS there.


----------



## xuan87

stillhart said:


> It's been up for a week, which is why there's been so much talk about it lately.    It ends in 12 hours...


 
  
  


ejong7 said:


> I think they were talking about it because it WAS there.


 
  
 Haha yea you guys are right. I was fooled by the Massdrop email, I thought it was listed under the "new to Massdrop" section.


----------



## joeexp

ejong7 said:


> Is the LC gonna come with an appropriate power plug?
> 
> And can anybody suggest XLR to XLR cables that I can get at a decent price in the UK?


 
  
  
  
 http://www.achtungaudio.com
 http://stores.ebay.co.uk/achtung-audio
  
 All cables manufactured in the UK by hand


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> I recommend grabbing some cabling and a few terminators and just giving it a go. Then test with a meter and you'll be comfortable in no time. We have a 4 month wait before the LC ships so why not do something constructive in that time?



Where would I get cabling thin enough? The last Radioshack in the state just closed and I'm not sure Best Buy or any big box stores have just straight cable.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Where would I get cabling thin enough? The last Radioshack in the state just closed and I'm not sure Best Buy or any big box stores have just straight cable.


 
  
 I'm going to do a big write-up on how to DIY your own cable soon (I'm already 600 words in...).  We have 4 months so if you want to wait a bit, I think it might help.  Otherwise, shoot me a PM and I'll point you at some resources.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> I'm going to do a big write-up on how to DIY your own cable soon (I'm already 600 words in...).  We have 4 months so if you want to wait a bit, I think it might help.  Otherwise, shoot me a PM and I'll point you at some resources.



Balanced and/or single ended? And I'll probably just wait and read it. Send me a message when you get it done, because I'm going to forget it in about three minutes.


----------



## GrandNagus50

Has the limited number of LC units sold out yet? I put in an order yesterday abd apparently am number 657. Wondering if the brisk sales have persuaded Cavalli to produce more than 500 units.


----------



## Pirakaphile

grandnagus50 said:


> Has the limited number of LC units sold out yet? I put in an order yesterday abd apparently am number 657. Wondering if the brisk sales have persuaded Cavalli to produce more than 500 units.



Nah, orders started at 400 or something, so you're 257


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

grandnagus50 said:


> Has the limited number of LC units sold out yet? I put in an order yesterday abd apparently am number 657. Wondering if the brisk sales have persuaded Cavalli to produce more than 500 units.


 

 You're well under the 500th unit.  I believe the first order number for Liquid Carbons was 396.  Granted there were people who ordered more then one......


----------



## AxelCloris

grandnagus50 said:


> Has the limited number of LC units sold out yet? I put in an order yesterday abd apparently am number 657. Wondering if the brisk sales have persuaded Cavalli to produce more than 500 units.


 
  
 Alex is still showing the LC available for purchase on the website so it's safe to assume they haven't hit the 500 cap yet. Number 657 is not your particular number in line but just an identification number for Cavalli Audio's invoice system.


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> Alex is still showing the LC available for purchase on the website so it's safe to assume they haven't hit the 500 cap yet. Number 657 is not your particular number in line but just an identification number for Cavalli Audio's invoice system.



Shaddup! I was so certain of myself!


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Balanced and/or single ended? And I'll probably just wait and read it. Send me a message when you get it done, because I'm going to forget it in about three minutes.


 
  
 The difference between making a balanced and SE is trivial.  What I did was I made my cable balanced, then I made a little balanced XLR -> SE TRS pigtail cable.  It works great.
  

  

  
 (Pay no attention to the shoddy braiding.  It was my first cable!)


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> The difference between making a balanced and SE is trivial.  What I did was I made my cable balanced, then I made a little balanced XLR -> SE TRS pigtail cable.  It works great.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Better'n mine is gonna look! And the single ended thing won't work for Schiit, since it'd trigger the internal protection.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Better'n mine is gonna look! And the single ended thing won't work for Schiit, since it'd trigger the internal protection.


 
  
 What do you mean, what internal protection?


----------



## Pirakaphile

I





stillhart said:


> What do you mean, what internal protection?



I know on the FAQ page of the gungnir it says something about not to use single ended to balanced adapters. 

But those pics are really nice, and the cable's pretty smack too.


----------



## lukeap69

barry s said:


> You may be right about this. The question isn't so much whether the LC sounds good out of a single-ended DAC (we're assuming that's yes), but how much better (if any) it sounds fed by a balanced DAC. I'd worry less about SE vs. balanced, and concentrate more on finding a DAC with an excellent reputation.  As an experiment, I'm going to compare the single-ended vs. balanced outs on my Gungnir into the Raganrok, and out to my LCD-X via the balanced output.




I'd be interested in this since I am eyeballing the DAC-19 to pair with my Rok.


----------



## AxelCloris

There's a great thread in the DIY section for new cable makers. They'll be able to answer almost everything about DIY cables for sure.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/676402/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread
  
 It seems I got us a little off topic with my terminating comments. Sorry about that. Now back to why we're all here, the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> I
> I know on the FAQ page of the gungnir it says something about not to use single ended to balanced adapters.
> 
> But those pics are really nice, and the cable's pretty smack too.


 
  
 Oh, that's different, that's going in the other direction.  The Gungnir is balanced output only.  If you try to run its signal into SE wiring by using an adaptor, yes, bad things will happen.  But you can have a headphone cabled for balanced but converted to SE with an adaptor and it works fine.  In fact, the stock Hifiman Cables are all wired for balanced but terminated SE.  You could literally just cut the end off and solder on an XLR connector and have a balanced cable.


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> There's a great thread in the DIY section for new cable makers. They'll be able to answer almost everything about DIY cables for sure.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/676402/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread
> 
> [rule]It seems I got us a little off topic with my terminating comments. Sorry about that. Now back to why we're all here, the Liquid Carbon.



You know what'd make the Carbon better? 

Racing stripes. 

Or grooves in the metal, something that makes it look more like a piece of sci-fi technology than a black box. It's the innards that count, but you've got to admit, the music sounds better when the amp looks badass.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> Oh, that's different, that's going in the other direction.  The Gungnir is balanced output only.  If you try to run its signal into SE wiring by using an adaptor, yes, bad things will happen.  But you can have a headphone cabled for balanced but converted to SE with an adaptor and it works fine.  In fact, the stock Hifiman Cables are all wired for balanced but terminated SE.  You could literally just cut the end off and solder on an XLR connector and have a balanced cable.



If only it didn't sound like a FECKIN' SLINKY ALL UP IN MY EARS. *ahem*


----------



## joeexp

Like so:


----------



## xuan87

pirakaphile said:


> You know what'd make the Carbon better?
> 
> Racing stripes.
> 
> Or grooves in the metal, something that makes it look more like a piece of sci-fi technology than a black box. It's the innards that count, but you've got to admit, the music sounds better when the amp looks badass.


 
  
 How can it be called Liquid Carbon if it doesn't contain a single speck of carbon?!
  
 Every single piece of non-conducting component in the amp NEEDS to be made out of carbon fiber!


----------



## vhsownsbeta

pirakaphile said:


> You know what'd make the Carbon better?
> 
> Racing stripes.
> 
> Or grooves in the metal, something that makes it look more like a piece of sci-fi technology than a black box. It's the innards that count, but you've got to admit, the music sounds better when the amp looks badass.




I want the LC to look more like this...


----------



## AxelCloris

I'd be afraid of adding racing stripes to the Liquid Carbon. As all 7 year old boys know that will only serve to increase the power and give us a faster sound. I'm not sure I'd be able to handle such a performance change.


----------



## doctorjazz

Getting back to balanced DA converters (inexpensive), the Geek Out 1K V2 is to be balanced, may be an option
And, there's always the Pono (did I say I love it?????  )


----------



## runeight

axelcloris said:


> There's a great thread in the DIY section for new cable makers. They'll be able to answer almost everything about DIY cables for sure.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/676402/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread
> 
> It seems I got us a little off topic with my terminating comments. Sorry about that. Now back to why we're all here, the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 Hey gents, this photo is an earlier prototype. See the website for the real output jacks.


----------



## ejong7

Mr.Cavalli what is gonna be included for our LC purchases? Just wondering if I should get a power cable ready as well.


----------



## warrenpchi

Hey guys,
  
 Since we're all going to be here for a few months drooling over what's to come, maybe we should organize a few topics of discussion?
  

The search for (and evaluation of) affordable balanced DACs
Sourcing and or building cables, adapters, etc.
Maybe Dr. Cavalli can hold a little webinar here about balanced audio?
  
 What do you guys think?  Any other topics come to mind?
  
  
 And yes, of course we can still woot and cheer every time someone pops in with an order number... like they're walking into a sushi restaurant.


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Since we're all going to be here for a few months drooling over what's to come, maybe we should organize a few topics of discussion?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would absolutely be down for getting some knowledge imparted from the good doctor. However I don't know if Alex will be able to easily work that into his schedule.
  
 All of these ideas sound great to me.


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Since we're all going to be here for a few months drooling over what's to come, maybe we should organize a few topics of discussion?
> 
> ...


 
  
 How about the difference between balanced vs SE DAC into a balanced amp?  In my mind, I'd rather have a really good SE DAC than a just okay balanced DAC (all other things equal).  I'd love to hear more from Dr. Cavalli on the subject...


----------



## Pirakaphile

joeexp said:


> Like so:


 
  
 Hey. Hey that's actually kinda cool with the racing stripes. You must be one of those photoshop wizards I've heard so much about! I like the grate thing on the second one too.


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> I'd be afraid of adding racing stripes to the Liquid Carbon. As all 7 year old boys know that will only serve to increase the power and give us a faster sound. I'm not sure I'd be able to handle such a performance change.


 
 Move aside old man! The Liquid Carbon is for hip youngsters, not you old phooeys!


----------



## Stillhart

I'll just throw this out there for the record:  I really like the understated look of the Cavalli line.  Adding racing stripes or carbon fibre would be a great way to get me to reconsider my order.


----------



## elwappo99

pirakaphile said:


> joeexp said:
> 
> 
> > Like so:
> ...


 
  
 Whoah, really like the vent holes on this one. Looks Cavalli - esque


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Since we're all going to be here for a few months drooling over what's to come, maybe we should organize a few topics of discussion?
> 
> ...


 
 Affordable, as in, sub $1k, or sub $500?
  
 All aboard the cable love/hate train!
  
 That'd be neat, since I don't know foop about balanced audio other than it looks different and amps each channel separately. 
  
 I got no dice for any other subjects at the moment.. Other than can we put a little count down timer on the thread title page?


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> I'll just throw this out there for the record:  I really like the understated look of the Cavalli line.  Adding racing stripes or carbon fibre would be a great way to get me to reconsider my order.


 
 True, I'd personally keep it how it is now. I mean, think of the modding potential! Who cares about the innards?! It's time to bring fashion to amplifiers! 
 I'm actually probably going to deck out my amp when I get it then, so if I ever show up at a meet, people'll be able to roll their eyes.
 "There's Pirakaphile with his stupid looking Cavalli amp. Spoiler and neon lights all over the place. He makes me ashamed to be an audiophile."


----------



## Poimandres

No, no stripes or markings please. For those of you want to jazz it up grab a bedazzling kit


----------



## AxelCloris

joeexp said:


> Like so:


 
  
 I quite like this concept. It gives it a shared design aesthetic with the LAu. But I'd think that having ventilation like this would add to the production costs.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> True, I'd personally keep it how it is now. I mean, think of the modding potential! Who cares about the innards?! It's time to bring fashion to amplifiers!
> I'm actually probably going to deck out my amp when I get it then, so if I ever show up at a meet, people'll be able to roll their eyes.
> "There's Pirakaphile with his stupid looking Cavalli amp. Spoiler and neon lights all over the place. He makes me ashamed to be an audiophile."


 
  
 I'm all for a Liquid Carbon modding gallery thread in the future.  Vajazzle it, pimp it out with fuzzy trim, engrave your name with a dremel, etc.  Lots of fun options!  But the best way to do that is to K.I.S.S.


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> I quite like this concept. It gives it a shared design aesthetic with the LAu. But I'd think that having ventilation like this would add to the production costs.


 
 If you live near a high school and they've got a metalshop, they probably have one of those metal cutter things, provided the school is adequately funded. If you really really wanted to you could go and do it yourself, but I wouldn't suggest it. I'd suggest just getting an industrial strength hole punch and doing that instead. Works out your forearms anyway.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> I'm all for a Liquid Carbon modding gallery thread in the future.  Vajazzle it, pimp it out with fuzzy trim, engrave your name with a dremel, etc.  Lots of fun options!  But the best way to do that is to K.I.S.S.


 
 I'm crying because I just imagined painting white stars and putting a black long-haired wig on the thing.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > True, I'd personally keep it how it is now. I mean, think of the modding potential! Who cares about the innards?! It's time to bring fashion to amplifiers!
> ...


 
  
 Vajazzle?!?! fuzzy trim?!?! 
  

  
 You are on point! 
  
  
 (If you don't know, a quick google of 'vajazzle' will fill you in. Just ummm... don't do it at work)


----------



## thomascrown

stillhart said:


> I'll just throw this out there for the record:  I really like the understated look of the Cavalli line.  Adding racing stripes or carbon fibre would be a great way to get me to reconsider my order.


 
 same, no more 16 year old since...forever...


----------



## Poimandres

stillhart said:


> I'll just throw this out there for the record:  I really like the understated look of the Cavalli line.  Adding racing stripes or carbon fibre would be a great way to get me to reconsider my order.



X3


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> How about the difference between balanced vs SE DAC into a balanced amp?  In my mind, I'd rather have a really good SE DAC than a just okay balanced DAC (all other things equal).  I'd love to hear more from Dr. Cavalli on the subject...


 
  
 OK


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> I'll just throw this out there for the record:  I really like the understated look of the Cavalli line.  Adding racing stripes or carbon fibre would be a great way to get me to reconsider my order.


 
  
 Ummm, no stripes or vent holes. The production amp will have a bit more design value than the proto, but the name of this game is to keep it simple.
  
 But, once you guys get your amps I'm all in for the case mod thread. You'll need some see through panels and internal lights though. Maybe fans......


----------



## Poimandres

Lol. Kids these days. The proto looks like a work of art. Looking forward to the final.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> Ummm, no stripes or vent holes. The production amp will have a bit more design value than the proto, but the name of this game is to keep it simple.






poimandres said:


> Lol. Kids these days. The proto looks like a work of art. Looking forward to the final.




I agree, the proto looks great. With slightly more subtle markings (to give it the same aesthetic as the LAu etc) it would be perfect...


----------



## mscott58

vhsownsbeta said:


> I agree, the proto looks great. With slightly more subtle markings (to give it the same aesthetic as the LAu etc) it would be perfect...




Alex could even just leave it all black and tell people it was a super subtle black on black logo and then wait to see if people believe they can see it!


----------



## achristilaw

I'm for flames... like reentry into Earth's atmo........


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

We should keep a tally of all the face palms Alex does reading this stuff....
  
 ...could get quite high in 4 months.


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> We should keep a tally of all the face palms Alex does reading this stuff....
> 
> ...could get quite high in 4 months.


 
  
 Warren could keep a tally in the first post.  Make himself useful!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



............................................________ 
 ....................................,.-'"...................``~., 
 .............................,.-"..................................."-., 
 .........................,/...............................................":, 
 .....................,?......................................................, 
 .................../...........................................................,} 
 ................./......................................................,:`^`..} 
 .............../...................................................,:"........./ 
 ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ 
 ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ 
 .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ 
 ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} 
 ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ 
 ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ 
 ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" 
 ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ 
 .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ 
 ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, 
 .....`=~-,__......`,................................. 
 ...................`=~-,,.,............................... 
 ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ 
 .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` 
 ........................................_..........._,-%.......` 
 ...................................,


----------



## ejong7

We will make it so high a tally that he push up production to divert our attention to talking bout impressions


----------



## GCTD

buttuglyjeff said:


> We should keep a tally of all the face palms Alex does reading this stuff....
> 
> ...could get quite high in 4 months.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

mscott58 said:


> Alex could even just leave it all black and tell people it was a super subtle black on black logo and then wait to see if people believe they can see it!


 

 Ha! That is actually pretty close to what I was thinking. Gloss black markings would look pretty close to this (without the costs of milling).


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> buttuglyjeff said:
> 
> 
> > We should keep a tally of all the face palms Alex does reading this stuff....
> ...


 
  
 You mean like outside of working on CanJam London and stuff?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Actually, if there was a way to buy extra chassis and not void the warranty, I probably wouldn't mind trying to do both Gulf and Alitalia liveries.


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> You mean like outside of working on CanJam London and stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If I can't go to CanJam London, clearly it's not useful.  Certainly not as useful as a facapalm tally!  lol  
  
 Okay okay fine, we all love you.
  
 I did like Dr. Cavalli's idea of a window into the amp; it looks really cool on the Alo CDM.  Add some cold-cathode lighting ala computer case mods...  I suspect that might not be the best for minimizing EMI, tho.


----------



## Beolab

Plsced a order of the Liquid Carbon, and are receiving it in 6-10 days with USPS EMS snail express mail. 

Interesting to see if it can handle my Abyss


----------



## Stillhart

beolab said:


> Plsced a order of the Liquid Carbon, and are receiving it in 6-10 days with USPS EMS snail express mail.
> 
> Interesting to see if it can handle my Abyss


----------



## money4me247

beolab said:


> Plsced a order of the Liquid Carbon, and are receiving it in 6-10 days with USPS EMS snail express mail.
> 
> Interesting to see if it can handle my Abyss


 
 wait... I thought it would be 4 months from now for production... and then shipping?


----------



## Beolab

They will ship from the 14 of april my friend 

Citat: amps will be made available to everyone beginning at High Noon (12:00p), Texas Time (CDT), on Tuesday, April 14th, 2015


----------



## AxelCloris

beolab said:


> They will ship from the 14 of april my friend
> 
> Citat: amps will be made available to everyone beginning at High Noon (12:00p), Texas Time (CDT), on Tuesday, April 14th, 2015


 
  
 That's the time for the pre-order to go live. The amps won't be shipping for 4 months.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> That's the time for the pre-order to go live. The amps won't be shipping for 4 months.


 
 Party pooper


----------



## vhsownsbeta

beolab said:


> They will ship from the 14 of april my friend
> 
> Citat: amps will be made available to everyone beginning at High Noon (12:00p), Texas Time (CDT), on Tuesday, April 14th, 2015


 

 The amp isn't in production yet. This is a preorder.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

+1 to the tally


----------



## ejong7

Lol if it were that fast it means were less than a week from it!


----------



## bearFNF

beolab said:


> Plsced a order of the Liquid Carbon, and are receiving it in 6-10 days with USPS EMS snail express mail.
> 
> Interesting to see if it can handle my Abyss


 
 Yeah, the website is not very clear about that, but here is Alex's post here on Head-Fi about it:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/105#post_11504432
  
 Alex, you might want to add some verbiage on your website about the delivery timing...


----------



## vhsownsbeta

In seriousness though....

Alex, now that I look at the product page, it probably isn't explicit enough that this is a preorder.

EDIT: yeah, what bearFNF said...


----------



## Beolab

4 month!! 

miss understand that one , but you are right

But during the time, maybe you guys can help me find or redirect me to where i can fin short RCA cables btw my Hugo and the carbon?

Or do i need RCA - XLR for the carbon or can it convert it to a hybrid balanced signal for the 4 pin XLR output?


----------



## musiclvr

ejong7 said:


> Mr.Cavalli what is gonna be included for our LC purchases? Just wondering if I should get a power cable ready as well.



I have been wondering whether or not a power cable will be included in the purchase too; as well as any other items?
I've also been thinking how good looking a matte black Schiit Audio Uber Bifrost DAC would looks next to the LC?


----------



## gr8soundz

musiclvr said:


> I have been wondering whether or not a power cable will be included in the purchase too; as well as any other items?


 
  
 I would hope the Carbon will come with a decent power cable included.


----------



## Beolab

I wrote to Alex: 

I begin with the Carbon, but i don't know if it able to drive my Abyss correctly , or what is your opinion? 

And when do you think you are able to ship the carbon? 

Then i need very short signal RCA-RCA or RCA-XLR signal cables if you supply, btw my Hugo and the carbon, and then use the 4 pin output?


----------



## Pirakaphile

I have to admit, the Liquid Crimson is a sexy looking amp, I'd love to put some heat sinks on the side of the Carbon just to give it that 'aggressive' look. That is, if I can find any, figure out how to mount them, and convince myself it doesn't look dorky. 
  
 I also wonder what the volume pot is gonna be made of. Solid metal or just metal covered.. And how nice and precise the little dude'll be.


----------



## d1sturb3d

Guys, I think I am pretty sure the LC will come with a decent power cable. Seriously, did anyone think otherwise? My sarcasm detector is not that good.


----------



## Pirakaphile

beolab said:


> I wrote to Alex:
> 
> I begin with the Carbon, but i don't know if it able to drive my Abyss correctly , or what is your opinion?
> 
> ...


 
 1.5 watts into 50 ohms, and the Abyss is like 45 or something? Plenty of power on hand for those cans.


----------



## joeexp

pirakaphile said:


> 1.5 watts into 50 ohms, and the Abyss is like 45 or something? Plenty of power on hand for those cans.


 

 One should really go for Gold with the Abyss. Fantastic symbiosis apparently .
 9W into 50R - Now that's what I am talking about!


----------



## Beolab

Abyss is 85 Ohm , so it will deliver like 2 watts


----------



## warrenpchi

joeexp said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > 1.5 watts into 50 ohms, and the Abyss is like 45 or something? Plenty of power on hand for those cans.
> ...


 
  
 I concur, and I stand by what I've said previously:  _"I've said it on multiple occasions, and I'll say it again. I have yet to come across an amp that is more-capable of taking the JPS Abyss to its full potential than Dr. Cavalli's Liquid Gold (LAu). I find this pairing to be exceedingly balanced, unparalleled in detail, and nearly flawless in its overall presentation. Every single audition reaffirms for me that Cavalli's LAu is the DEFINITIVE amp for the Abyss. Of course, Abyss owners don't have to get a LAu - but then what's the ****ing point of getting an Abyss?"_


----------



## Beolab

I like the compact size with Liquid Gold sound 

Can someone link to where i can buy short ~3 inch RCA - RCA phono silver cables would be helpful.


----------



## Beolab

I order the Liquid Gold in a later stage, because i cant get a demo of it in Sweden, because, their isn't any Hifi shop here who are a Cavalli Dealer yet. 

So i start with the Carbon, and if i like the signature sound, then i place a order on the Gold.


----------



## Beolab

I will have a listening demo on the Simaudio Moon 430HA amp paird a Hugo and with my Abyss in monday, and see how it sounds. 

The 430HA deliver 8 solid watts balanced class-A up to 2,35 watt.


----------



## DigitalFreak

gr8soundz said:


> I would hope the Carbon will come with a decent power cable included.


 
 Well here's the thing, sometimes companies that cater to audiophiles don't include power cables. The reason for that is twofold. First, no power cable means extra costs are kept down. Secondly, a lot of companies won't include power cables due to the fact they know many of their customers won't use them and they prefer not having the attached cost of a power cable that they will only throw away. Many audiophiles like to tweak their gear using cables and many of them use specific power cables that they believe will give them a better sonic presentation. A good example of all this, Woo Audio doesn't provide power cables for their amps.


----------



## joeexp

beolab said:


> I like the compact size with Liquid Gold sound
> 
> Can someone link to where i can buy short ~3 inch RCA - RCA phono silver cables would be helpful.


 

 Where are you based?


----------



## Beolab

In Sweden unfortunately, but i can order online if they are willing to ship to Sweden. 

Do we have anyone here at Head-fi who can build two RCA-RCA silver cables with descent connectors in 3 inch length for me perhaps ?

Please make me a PM 

I have previously bought Artisan Silver cables for my HiFi gear, that are hand made of an old chap at the small island called Isle of white, placed at the coast near Manchester England.


----------



## ksb643

I'm in!!! 
Your Order #100000675 
 (placed on Apr 17, 2015) Can't wait!


----------



## warrenpchi

beolab said:


> In Sweden unfortunately, but i can order online if they are willing to ship to Sweden.
> 
> Do we have anyone here at Head-fi who can build two RCA-RCA cables with descent connectors for me perhaps ?


 
  
@Pingupenguins (BTG Audio)
  


ksb643 said:


> I'm in!!!
> Your Order #100000675
> (placed on Apr 17, 2015) Can't wait!


 
  
Yay!


----------



## mscott58

digitalfreak said:


> Well here's the thing, sometimes companies that cater to audiophiles don't include power cables. The reason for that is twofold. First, no power cable means extra costs are kept down. Secondly, a lot of companies won't include power cables due to the fact they know many of their customers won't use them and they prefer not having the attached cost of a power cable that they will only throw away. Many audiophiles like to tweak their gear using cables and many of them use specific power cables that they believe will give them a better sonic presentation. A good example of all this, Woo Audio doesn't provide power cables for their amps.




+1. Alex appears to be making this as affordable as possible and focusing on spending in the area of SQ, so I'd expect no PC or just a basic one.


----------



## DigitalFreak

mscott58 said:


> +1. Alex appears to be making this as affordable as possible and focusing on spending in the area of SQ, so I'd expect no PC or just a basic one.


 
 I'm guessing it would probably be a plane Jane power cable and no more. I might be looking into a Wywires power cable down the road once I've settled down with the Carbon for a few weeks.


----------



## Barry S

ksb643 said:


> I'm in!!!
> Your Order #100000675
> (placed on Apr 17, 2015) Can't wait!


 

 Awesomeness.  My estimate is about 300 sold now.


----------



## Beolab

warrenpchi said:


> href="/u/178226/Pingupenguins" style="display:inline-block;">@Pingupenguins
> (BTG Audio)
> 
> 
> Yay!





Thx, i have placed a PM for Pingupenguins and see if he respond to my quest 

PS 
I didn't get any order verification nr when i pre-payed and placed my order?


----------



## Poimandres

Anyone have thoughts on pairing with the idsd?


----------



## runeight

digitalfreak said:


> Well here's the thing, sometimes companies that cater to audiophiles don't include power cables. The reason for that is twofold. First, no power cable means extra costs are kept down. Secondly, a lot of companies won't include power cables due to the fact they know many of their customers won't use them and they prefer not having the attached cost of a power cable that they will only throw away. Many audiophiles like to tweak their gear using cables and many of them use specific power cables that they believe will give them a better sonic presentation. A good example of all this, Woo Audio doesn't provide power cables for their amps.


 
  
 Hello gents. Back to this for a while Very happy to have shipped  the first batch of Liquid Crimsons today. A little late, but not too bad. I had forgotten just how beautiful that amp is.
  
 Power cords - the comments above sum it up very well. We are not planning to include a cord.
  
 Thanks for the tips about the clarity of the website. For anyone who missed the first post, we expect shipping to begin about 4 months after start of production. We are working our way towards that as quickly as we can. Of course, sometimes it can go faster, but I want these amps to be absolutely solid before they go out.
  
 Someone asked about volume pot. Naturally, we can't include the terrific TKD conductive plastic pots that we use the in bigger amps, but we are going to use a custom made quad conductive plastic pot that fits into the overall scheme of this amp.


----------



## d1sturb3d

So I guess I was wrong about the power cord being included, that's a first for me. Anyway got a bunch of diy power cords here


----------



## Emerpus

poimandres said:


> Anyone have thoughts on pairing with the idsd?




Yap. I'm planning on using the iDSD Micro. SE.


----------



## warrenpchi

beolab said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > (BTG Audio)
> ...


 
  
 Coolio!  Brian's a good guy, and is also happy to mod headphones should you need that done as well.


----------



## Stillhart

d1sturb3d said:


> So I guess I was wrong about the power cord being included, that's a first for me. Anyway got a bunch of diy power cords here


 
  
 Can you point me at any resources on how to make a DIY power cord that sounds better than a plain-Jane one?


----------



## dnuggett

runeight said:


> Power cords - the comments above sum it up very well. We are not planning to include a cord.


 
  
 Personally, I would make sure to post that on the order page of the website. I assumed it had one.. I'm thinking many people did.


----------



## Poimandres

It may be beneficial to some of us if you would offer a power cord for an additional fee.


----------



## Mr Rick

poimandres said:


> It may be beneficial to some of us if you would offer a power cord for an additional fee.


 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UB4Y54/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3NNC30GS1KNTB&coliid=I371ZS86EFN7IZ


----------



## Barry S

poimandres said:


> It may be beneficial to some of us if you would offer a power cord for an additional fee.


 

 Additional fee?  This is a $600 amplifier--it's ridiculous that it doesn't come with a $1 power cord, although not nearly as ridiculous as spending a pile of money on a non UL-approved cord that isn't going to make a bit of difference.


----------



## Mr Rick

barry s said:


> Additional fee?  This is a $600 amplifier--it's ridiculous that it doesn't come with a $1 power cord, although not nearly as ridiculous as spending a pile of money on a non UL-approved cord that isn't going to make a bit of difference.


----------



## mscott58

poimandres said:


> It may be beneficial to some of us if you would offer a power cord for an additional fee.




Power cords can range from a few dollars to several thousand (or beyond) so it would be hard for Alex to offer just one thing. There are lots of great PC makers out there. My budget favorite is Signal Cable. My 2-channel system is all Cardas Golden Reference, which are great cords. They run used about $350 for 1M. I also like Harmonic Technologies and Nordost. Cheers


----------



## d1sturb3d

Yup,normally power cords are included, was really surprised that it will not include even a generic one. Oh well, there is always a first.


----------



## d1sturb3d

stillhart said:


> Can you point me at any resources on how to make a DIY power cord that sounds better than a plain-Jane one?




There are a lot of diy power cords on the net, but I only replace them if the power cord is flimsy. The power cable I use is a furukawa and just buy some low cost receptacles that are hospital grade


----------



## runeight

You all asked about balanced vs. SE. There are many aspects to this topic and there are individuals who are much more knowledgeable about the ins and outs of this topic than I am. But.....
  
 A single ended signal is carried by two wires, the signal wire and the ground wire. If a SE cable is connecting two devices, the ground wire sets the voltage reference point for both devices by allowing them to establish a common ground.
  
 But, there are at least two problems with SE, especially regarding the cable wiring. The first one is, if any noise gets onto the signal wire, say from some E/M source, this becomes part of the signal as noise and goes right into the connected devices. This problem is routinely addressed by making the ground wire a shield to protect the signal wire from noise introduction.
  
 The second problem with the SE scheme is that the ground wire/shield itself can carry or introduce noise. The classic case of this is a ground loop among several pieces of equipment, but it can happen in other ways too.
  
 In an amplifier or output stage from a DAC or other similar, the SE topology also limits the maximum voltage swing to whatever the signal line can manage. In an amp, this maximum voltage is something less than the output rails. Same is true for the output stage of a DAC.
  
 Most of the audio equipment that has ever been built has been SE. It is tried and true and works well enough and with few enough problems for us not to really pay attention to it.
  
 So why balanced???
  
 I think I mentioned in a previous post that balanced signaling was first used by telephone companies (maybe even telegraph companies) where copper wires were traveling very long distances and where they were subject to all kinds of noise pickup. The phone companies needed to have clean, noiseless-as-possible signals between their switching stations and repeater amps. This was the only way to do it.
  
 A balanced system has two signal lines. Each line carries the exact same signal, but 180d out of phase. The receiving end of this signal is prepared to handle the 180d phase shift in the balanced signal.
  
 If some noise is introduced into the wires, by radiation for example, because the wires are adjacent, this noise is in phase on both signal lines. And because it is in-phase, while the actual signal is 180d out of phase, the unwanted in-phase noise is cancelled at the receiver by what is called common mode rejection (measured by Common Mode Rejection Ratio, CMRR).
  
 In a balanced topology, you don't even need the ground wire, but there is always one anyway for other reasons, including simply shielding the two signal lines.
  
 So, in principle, all other things being equal, a balanced system can have lower noise than a SE system.
  
 There are two significant advantages to balanced in an amplifier.
  
 As we talked about above, a balanced stereo amp has two amplifiers per channel. The two amplifiers are operating, like the signal, 180d out of phase.
  
 Every amplifier has noise on the PS rail(s). In a SE amp the PS noise is transmitted into the internals of the amp and appears at the output as some fraction of the noise at the rail. This fraction is called the Power Supply Rejection Ratio (PSRR). The better the PSRR of an amp the lower the PS noise will be at the output.
  
 In a balanced amp, both individual amp sections are connected to the same rails. The output signal is taken from between the two outputs (does not reference to ground).
  
 The effect of this is the same as the balanced telephone lines. Anything that appears in both amps which is in phase is cancelled before or at the output.
  
 This means that any noise on the common rails which is coherent (like 120Hz buzz in phase on the rails) will be largely cancelled. For the same amount of ripple on the rails a balanced amp can have much lower noise than a single ended amp using the identical PS.
  
 And, of course, any in-phase junk coming into the amp is largely cancelled. The only reason that the cancellation is not perfect (if the circuit is designed well) is because of component variations which make the two individual amps behave slightly differently.
  
 The other advantage (and a big one) with a balance amp is that it can develop twice the voltage swing at its output than can an SE amp with the same rail voltages. This is because the output signal is the difference of the two outputs. When one goes high, the other goes low give twice the rail voltage as the theoretical (but not practical) voltage output.
  
 Now, a balanced amplifier, having four separate amps in it can offer to take the output from just two of the amps, one in each channel. When it does this it is providing a single ended output.
  
 So, the Carbon is a real balanced amplifier. Because of the above, the noise at the output of the balanced outs is, indeed, less than the noise from the SE. There is almost no escape from this.
  
 The two reasons why the Carbon is balanced are the noise and the power output. Noise goes down and power output goes up for the same rails and PS noise. The package gets bigger, fours amps vs. two, but you can see that we've manged to squeeze it all in by careful amp design and component selection.
  
 So, at the output of any balanced amp it is almost always better to take the output from the balanced out vs. the SE out, if the amp actually offers an SE output.
  
 Next post. Inputs.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> You all asked about balanced vs. SE. There are many aspects to this topic and there are individuals who are much more knowledgeable about the ins and outs of this topic than I am. But.....


 
  
 Great summary, thanks.


----------



## musiclvr

mscott58 said:


> +1. Alex appears to be making this as affordable as possible and focusing on spending in the area of SQ, so I'd expect no PC or just a basic one.



That was my assumption as well but it looks like I'll be shopping for my first audiophile grade power cord.....my wallet is hemorrhaging


----------



## warrenpchi

barry s said:


> poimandres said:
> 
> 
> > It may be beneficial to some of us if you would offer a power cord for an additional fee.
> ...


 
  
 On a side note, $599 is an outrageously good price for an amplifier that sounds this good, but that's neither here nor there.
  
 That said, I would definitely disagree here.
  
 First of all, as Digital Freak pointed out, people routinely and frequently like to select their own aftermarket cables when it comes to gear of the Carbon's calibre.  Regardless of which side of the cable debate one stands on, this is more or less a valid expectation on the part of some manufacturers, particularly those in the summit-fi space.  As a result, and again as Digital Freak pointed out, Woo does not include any power cables... and certainly didn't on my $999 Woo WA7.
  
 Secondly, the amp was designed with a global power supply that works in nearly every civilized corner of the world.  However, power cords do vary from place to place, so it's not as simple as just placing a cord in the box.  Which cord, for what locale?  Even if Cavalli wanted to take a logical guess based on where the order originated, it's already been made clear that some people intend for this to be a transportable amp that is to be taken along on trips.  Those people may need more than one cable.  But again, which ones?
  
 Then, I guess you could say that he should include one of every type of cable possible.  But honestly, for all who don't intend to travel with this amp, that's just a lot of waste.  I reviewed a Beyer headphone amp a while back that did that... and for my specific use case, it was a complete waste of extra cables.
  
 In any case, I understand your opinion on this.  I would simply, and I hope respectfully, disagree.


----------



## mscott58

warrenpchi said:


> On a side note, $599 is an outrageously good price for an amplifier that sounds this good, but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> That said, I would definitely disagree here.
> 
> ...


 
 While I hate to agree with you, I will here - well said Warren! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Other thing is that if you have played with audio equipment or computers for a while there's a very good chance that you have one of these cheap power cords sitting around. Having built up a rather nice 2-channel system over the years and having also worked through my share of computer gear I have a whole drawer full of cheap PC's. The connector used on almost all audio gear is the same as is used on monitors, TV's, desktop computers, printers, etc. If you work for a corporation it's also almost a sure bet that your IT group has stacks of these things sitting around and if you ask nicely they'll probably be willing to part with one (they're really worth almost nothing). 
  
 And while we're on the subject of cords (oh dear, is that Pandora's box I hear opening? And is it Vajazzled?) I would suggest that you try out some different power cords and see if you think they make a difference. You can think that it shouldn't, and to your ear it might not, but I personally have seen some more than subtle changes across equipment by changing PC's. Please, no flaming, YMMV and this is just my personal experience. 

 Cheers and thank Alex for this great product and a great thread!


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> While I hate to agree with you, I will here - well said Warren!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, I love you too!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 +1 to what you said as well.  In the US, we're basically talking about the standard IEC power cords that came with nearly every computer power supply.  And though my days of running folding @ home farms full of overclocked systems are far behind me, I still have a ton of those laying around.  If I get a chance to use one, save a buck or two, and cause one less such cord to waste space somewhere, then hey, bonus.


----------



## mscott58

There's also the option of trying cables out as some cable manufacturers allow a trial period. Or if you're in the US there's also the option of using Cable Company's "Lending Library" to try out cables. They sell PC's ranging from $54 to almost $17K. (wow - let's see, should I get that car or a power cord?)


----------



## Stillhart

I'm still trying to figure out the secret sauce in power and USB cables. I'd rather just make my own...


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> I'm still trying to figure out the secret sauce in power and USB cables. I'd rather just make my own...


 
 That works also Dan!
  
 I've done a lot of DIY, but never (or at least not yet) with cables. 

 Cheers


----------



## Poimandres

Okay shifting back to dacs. Has anyone heard the Henry audio dacs? They look relatively small and inexpensive.


----------



## warrenpchi

poimandres said:


> Okay shifting back to dacs. Has anyone heard the Henry audio dacs? They look relatively small and inexpensive.


 
  
 Hmm, never heard of them.  I'll have to look into them.  Thanks for the mention!
  
 I was checking out the Audiolab M-DAC last night.  Anyone heard good/bad things about that?
  
 EDIT:
  

 It would let me input via USB from my laptop, as well as optical from A&K player, and the output via balanced to the Carbon.


----------



## Barry S

warrenpchi said:


> On a side note, $599 is an outrageously good price for an amplifier that sounds this good, but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> That said, I would definitely disagree here.
> 
> ...




Most manufacturers of audio equipment seem to have solved this seemingly insurmountable dilemma. Now, I'll just be off to wrap one of my spare IEC cords in carbon fiber and gold leaf.


----------



## longbowbbs

stillhart said:


> I'm still trying to figure out the secret sauce in power and USB cables. I'd rather just make my own...


 
 Keep it to yourself....It is ground unicorn horn....Shhhhhh....


----------



## warrenpchi

barry s said:


> Now, I'll just be off to wrap one of my spare IEC cords in carbon fiber and gold leaf.


 
  
 Lol... wait... how much you want for that???


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> That works also Dan!
> 
> I've done a lot of DIY, but never (or at least not yet) with cables.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
  


barry s said:


> Most manufacturers of audio equipment seem to have solved this seemingly insurmountable dilemma. Now, I'll just be off to wrap one of my spare IEC cords in carbon fiber and gold leaf.


 
  
  


longbowbbs said:


> Keep it to yourself....It is ground unicorn horn....Shhhhhh....


 
  
 You guys are no help at all.


----------



## Beolab

One question about the Carbon: 

Does the none-balanced SE input convert to balanced to the 4 pin ouput like the Liquid Gold?


----------



## Stillhart

beolab said:


> One question about the Carbon:
> 
> Does the none-balanced SE input convert to balanced to the 4 pin ouput like the Liquid Gold?


 
 Yep


----------



## drgajet

stillhart said:


> You guys are no help at all.




But we're funny.


----------



## Poimandres

Opinions vary.....


----------



## KG Jag

Seems to be a good idea to include a low cost, decent quality power cable with each unit.  That avoids an initial bad taste in a customer's mouth when he opens his new amp in anticipation of immediate use, only to find he is light a critical part he expected to be included.
  
 This is especially true of a line's entry level product of this type.


----------



## gr8soundz

No big issue on the power cord. I can see how the locale and type of termination required could be a packaging issue internationally.
  
 Already have plenty of 3-prong pc cords around but was hoping Dr. Cavalli might include a basic, more "audiophile" oriented one.
  
 I realize cabling can be a controversial subject but I actually confirmed for myself this week how different usb cables can make slight differences in audio output (using the idsd micro; I changed cables 5x and used some duplicate cables to confirm).
  
 So I have no doubt that the quality of power cord may make a difference (although I do not plan to spend a lot on one). Guess I'll add that to list of balanced and xlr cables to hunt for the next few months.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I've no idea where to even begin looking for audio oriented power cables. I may just go and get the PYST cables cause they're short, inexpensive, and built well, but I'll do a bit of research 'fore I make a purchase. That, or I'll do the whole DIY thing once I can find some quality wires and some good solder.


----------



## goldendarko

pirakaphile said:


> I've no idea where to even begin looking for audio oriented power cables. I may just go and get the PYST cables cause they're short, inexpensive, and built well, but I'll do a bit of research 'fore I make a purchase. That, or I'll do the whole DIY thing once I can find some quality wires and some good solder.



 


In my experience I've found power cables to make little to no difference. I bought a pair of Shunyata cables for my Auralic VEGA & Schiit Ragnarok stack and after switching back and forth multiple times, I wasn't able to notice much, if any, difference, though I did end up keeping them (mostly for piece of mind, or just plain laziness  For the carbon I will probably just end up getting a $5 cable off Amazon because if I couldn't notice a difference in a $5000 amp & dac, I doubt I will notice any difference with the Carbon. That;s just my personal experience with power cables, not saying they don't actually make a difference, I just wasn't able to tell.


----------



## Pirakaphile

goldendarko said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > I've no idea where to even begin looking for audio oriented power cables. I may just go and get the PYST cables cause they're short, inexpensive, and built well, but I'll do a bit of research 'fore I make a purchase. That, or I'll do the whole DIY thing once I can find some quality wires and some good solder.
> ...



I'll probably end up experimenting with some cable bits for the power cord, since input power shouldn't matter at all. Once the electricity gets into the amp it's more important I suppose, but if cabling really made a difference you wouldn't be able to tell unless the cables in your house were all high quality as well. I wonder how many people have done that with their homes, and how much a difference it makes.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> I'll probably end up experimenting with some cable bits for the power cord, since input power shouldn't matter at all. Once the electricity gets into the amp it's more important I suppose, but if cabling really made a difference you wouldn't be able to tell unless the cables in your house were all high quality as well. I wonder how many people have done that with their homes, and how much a difference it makes.


 
  
 Well you could buy a power conditioner and then you just need a good cable from the conditioner to the unit...


----------



## money4me247

stillhart said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...


 
  
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/30/unicorns-existence-proven-says-north-korea/
if you need some ground unicorn horn, my brother is actually visiting north korea this summer. i can ask him to pick you up some  hope this is more helpful!


----------



## DigitalFreak

barry s said:


> Additional fee?  This is a $600 amplifier--it's ridiculous that it doesn't come with a $1 power cord, although not nearly as ridiculous as spending a pile of money on a non UL-approved cord that isn't going to make a bit of difference.


 
 When you start buying gear from companies such as Woo Audio or Cavalli whose chief customer base are people who call themselves audiophiles these companies don't and won't provide power cables because these same customers don't want them. If Cavalli was to provide a power cable I highly doubt it would be a 2 dollar cable but would instead be something far pricier and as such it would up the price of their products. If they were to choose to provide a two dollar power cable I guarantee the people they cater to as well as the competition would point at them and start rolling on the floor laughing. Also, even if they were to provide an affordable audiophile power cable chances are the vast majority of these cables would still be thrown aside or flat out thrown out because these people who consider themselves audiophiles each have their favorite brand of cables they prefer to use. I'm not debating whether cable A sounds better then cable B. I'm saying because of the nature of the market Cavalli regularly sells their products in it makes more sense to not provide a power cable and therefore pass the saving onto the customer.
  
 Seriously, what's the big deal @Barry S? If you want a 2 dollar power cable then the next time you're at the mall just grab one and your problem is solved. If you don't want to spend the extra two bucks then just look around the house and I'm sure you'll eventually find one lying somewhere in a closet, garage or behind a bookshelf somewhere. I got a WA6 just recently and I just grabbed an old power cable I had lying in the corner of my closet which was sitting beside an old dead PC tower and away I went. Its really not a big deal in my opinion. You want a cheap cable then use a cheap cable. You want a boutique audiophile cable then just buy one from your favorite manufacturer of choice.


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/30/unicorns-existence-proven-says-north-korea/
> if you need some ground unicorn horn, my brother is actually visiting north korea this summer. i can ask him to pick you up some  hope this is more helpful!


 
  
 Well, it's the thought that counts...


----------



## DigitalFreak

To answer the question posted by various people on thread, you can get power cables of various prices from various sites. Off the top of my head, ALO Audio, Helix, WyWires, Todd The Vinyl Junkie, and Moon Audio all sell boutique cables at various price points. The names I've mentioned are also head-fi sponsors and to the best of my knowledge are all well regarded by head-fi. 
  
 Something else I wish to point out, if anyone decides to go the audiophile boutique cable route, you don't have to break the bank to get a good cable. If you do your research you can get a generally nice well built power cable for under 50 or a 100 bones.


----------



## money4me247

digitalfreak said:


> Something else I wish to point out, if anyone decides to go the audiophile boutique cable route, you don't have to break the bank to get a good cable. If you do your research you can get a generally nice well built power cable for under 50 or a 100 bones.


 
 The adult human skeleton has 206 bones, so that's a steal!! babies actually start off with 270 bones, so if you harvest some bones from em, they won't even miss it


----------



## DigitalFreak

money4me247 said:


> The adult human skeleton has 206 bones, so that's a steal!! babies actually start off with 270 bones, so if you harvest some bones from em, they won't even miss it


 
 ?????
 I have absolutely no idea how to answer that Dan, lol.


----------



## gr8soundz

digitalfreak said:


> When you start buying gear from companies such as Woo Audio or Cavalli whose chief customer base are people who call themselves audiophiles these companies don't and won't provide power cables because these same customers don't want them. If Cavalli was to provide a power cable I highly doubt it would be a 2 dollar cable but would instead be something far pricier and as such it would up the price of their products. If they were to choose to provide a two dollar power cable I guarantee the people they cater to as well as the competition would point at them and start rolling on the floor laughing. Also, even if they were to provide an affordable audiophile power cable chances are the vast majority of these cables would still be thrown aside or flat out thrown out because these people who consider themselves audiophiles each have their favorite brand of cables they prefer to use. I'm not debating whether cable A sounds better then cable B. I'm saying because of the nature of the market Cavalli regularly sells their products in it makes more sense to not provide a power cable and therefore pass the saving onto the customer.
> 
> Seriously, what's the big deal @Barry S? If you want a 2 dollar power cable then the next time you're at the mall just grab one and your problem is solved. If you don't want to spend the extra two bucks then just look around the house and I'm sure you'll eventually find one lying somewhere in a closet, garage or behind a bookshelf somewhere. I got a WA6 just recently and I just grabbed an old power cable I had lying in the corner of my closet which was sitting beside an old dead PC tower and away I went. Its really not a big deal in my opinion. You want a cheap cable then use a cheap cable. You want a boutique audiophile cable then just buy one from your favorite manufacturer of choice.


 
  
 It's not just audio companies. 
  
 Even Nintendo no longer provides power cables:
 http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/01/14/new-3dsxl-doesnt-include-charger-here-are-some-options
  
 It's a cost measure for them (cheap) but you get the idea......


----------



## DigitalFreak

Here you go boys, looks well build and it doesn't exactly break the bank price wise.
 I may just grab that one if i can't find anything that appeals to me elsewhere


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

goldendarko said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > I've no idea where to even begin looking for audio oriented power cables. I may just go and get the PYST cables cause they're short, inexpensive, and built well, but I'll do a bit of research 'fore I make a purchase. That, or I'll do the whole DIY thing once I can find some quality wires and some good solder.
> ...


 
  
 Then don't read this part of head-fi.....
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/219202/its-done-power-cord-shoot-out-22-power-cords-reviewed


----------



## Beolab

To the Cavalli staff: 

I think you should reconsider the engraved printing instead and fine tune the price to compansate for the extra cost. 
And why not the matte black finish? 

Because you listen with your eyes also


----------



## bearFNF

buttuglyjeff said:


> Then don't read this part of head-fi.....
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/219202/its-done-power-cord-shoot-out-22-power-cords-reviewed



ROFL...one of his top picks is called the Bohica. Heh...BOHICA=Bend Over Here It Comes Again...


----------



## randomx

beolab said:


> To the Cavalli staff:
> 
> I think you should reconsider the engraved printing instead and fine tune the price to compansate for the extra cost.
> And why not the matte black finish?
> ...


 

 I ordered my Liquid Carbon on the basis of Dr. Cavalli's reputation and the information available about the product at the time of my purchase, both from Cavalli and from the Can Jam reports. I'm confident his choices about both the design and the price were carefully considered in light of his goals for the LC. One of those goals, according to his own posts, was to offer the "Cavalli sound"  at a discounted price as a way of thanking the Head-Fi community for its support. In my opinion, it hardly seems reasonable to ask him to incorporate the design features from his top-of-the-line amps in the LC, especially after it has already gone on sale. Would you buy a Toyota and then expect the manufacturer to make it a Lexus?


----------



## BIG666

I hope that the carbon will not be a Toyota - and I want to do is to look like a toyota.
 However, the sound, the look is not much to do.
 Otherwise I'd be willing to pay a small premium (US $ 70-100) so that the other devices of beautiful appearance Cavalli gets the Cavalli voice.
 But I do not expect a Jaguar


----------



## Beolab

Why not go the hole distance, but make it compact and small, this will sell even more units, even if it costs a little bit more.


----------



## money4me247

beolab said:


> Why not go the hole distance, but make it compact and small, this will sell even more units, even if it costs a little bit more.




they are alrdy makin the carbon compact and small for a trans-portable amp. i think they r plannin on a releasing a true portable that's even smaller if that's what ur lookin for.


----------



## Beolab

No i'm speaking of the finish of the cabinet if you read my postings.

(Why dont stick to the Cavalli design with matte black finish, and engraved letters)


----------



## runeight

Well......
  
 The Carbon is quite small and light for a fully discrete, fully balanced amplifier with a universal power supply that can make 1.5W. It is so light that it is easily transportable.
  
 As for the lettering. The goal of this amp is to bring the Cavalli sound to an amp at a price accessible to most serious headphone listeners. Engraving the lettering is complex and would add significant cost and actually slow down production because it is a slow manual operation. It's just not practical for this amp. In other respects, however, we intend to give the amp the look of the rest of the line of products as much as possible.


----------



## randomx

What he said.


----------



## Beolab

runeight said:


> Well......
> 
> The Carbon is quite small and light for a fully discrete, fully balanced amplifier with a universal power supply that can make 1.5W. It is so light that it is easily transportable.
> 
> As for the lettering. The goal of this amp is to bring the Cavalli sound to an amp at a price accessible to most serious headphone listeners. Engraving the lettering is complex and would add significant cost and actually slow down production because it is a slow manual operation. It's just not practical for this amp. In other respects, however, we intend to give the amp the look of the rest of the line of products as much as possible.




Sounds good, so the pre-production units are not the final design speaking of finish then? 

So what are your opinion on amp for the Abyss, should i reverse my order of the Carbon, and make way for the Crimson, or if money where not an object a Gold? 

I like the compact transportable formst of the Carbon, but i think it going to be lack of power and dynamics for my Abyss? ;(


----------



## gr8soundz

beolab said:


> Sounds good, so the pre-production units are not the final design speaking of finish then?
> 
> So what are your opinion on amp for the Abyss, should i reverse my order of the Carbon, and make way for the Crimson, or if money where not an object a Gold?
> 
> I like the compact transportable formst of the Carbon, but i think it going to be lack of power and dynamics for my Abyss? ;(


 
  
 If any doubts (and money no object), go for the Gold.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> Well you could buy a power conditioner and then you just need a good cable from the conditioner to the unit...


 
 I've only ever used power shampoo, the cheap stuff that is an all-in-one body/hair wash, and I'm not sure conditioner would make any difference. 
  
 But really, what's a power conditioner? It's probably something I already know of, but you're using a different word for it that I'm not aware of.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Like we were talking about before..
  
OFFICIAL LIQUID CARBON PIMPAGE THREAD​  ​ We heard you on the Cavalli threads asking "Where did the sexy go?" And we have an answer! It all went to you and your wallet. ;3 To be continued...


----------



## AxelCloris

pirakaphile said:


> I've only ever used power shampoo, the cheap stuff that is an all-in-one body/hair wash, and I'm not sure conditioner would make any difference.
> 
> But really, what's a power conditioner? It's probably something I already know of, but you're using a different word for it that I'm not aware of.


 
  
 Are you sure you want to go down this rabbit hole? It's quite deep.
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> Are you sure you want to go down this rabbit hole? It's quite deep.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner



Well, I've already got a surge protecting power strip for my computer and amp, but I'm not sure it's a conditioner. Doesn't look too complicated, so long as you buy a pre-made on in my opinion, so I'm not sure there's much to lose except money. 

And I always go deep in the hole. No exceptions.


----------



## mscott58

If you want to take balanced to its ultimate then try balanced power! Seriously, it applies the same approach of common mode rejection. Happy to teach people how if anyone is interested. Cheers


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I wonder if everyone should save their judgements until Alex shares an image of the final case design?  Everything up to now has been a prototype at some level.
  
 4 months of "Cavalli should do this, Cavalli should do that" could get quite old...


----------



## joeexp

buttuglyjeff said:


> I wonder if everyone should save their judgements until Alex shares an image of the final case design?  Everything up to now has been a prototype at some level.
> 
> 4 months of "Cavalli should do this, Cavalli should do that" could get quite old...


 

 +1 Can you all hold back until the final design of the finished product is revealed … 
  
 And if anybody else complains about why there is no power cord included, I will send somebody to strangle them with a 2m meter JPS Labs Kaptovator Lite, which greatly improves clarity, dynamics, and transient response and promises to dramatically raise the performance -  if that's last thing I'm doing!


----------



## lramirez1959

I intend to feed my LC in a first stage from my AK240, Vinnie's mod SE Line Out.
  
 A second phase would contemplate a compact DAC, maybe Concero or something from Wyred4Sound.
  
 I have 2 questions for Dr. Cavalli and the community:
  
 1- Would the HD800 be a good pairing for the LC in SE mode ? in Balanced mode ? 
  
 I saw a picture of Dr. Cavalli listening to a prototype with a pair of LCD-XC: Any impressions ?
  
 2- What would be a recommendation for a good power cord, I'm thinking something not too expensive (say 200 US max) and light (I've seen some that look like a fireman's hose)
  
 Appreciate in advance you feedback


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> If you want to take balanced to its ultimate then try balanced power! Seriously, it applies the same approach of common mode rejection. Happy to teach people how if anyone is interested. Cheers


 
  
 +1
  
 Recently came across a small desktop setup with 2 monoblock amps, 1 for each channel.
  
 At some point it may become overkill for a desktop/portable setup. I think going full multi-monoblock, balanced everything, $1k plus power cord, etc. may best be reserved for full-size speaker setups.


----------



## achristilaw

I'm a nudist.... I don't want any case at all........


----------



## Serenitty

buttuglyjeff said:


> I wonder if everyone should save their judgements until Alex shares an image of the final case design?  Everything up to now has been a prototype at some level.
> 
> 4 months of "Cavalli should do this, Cavalli should do that" could get quite old...




4 months? It's already old. If Dr. cavalli listens to all these suggestions we're going to end up with the amp equivalent of the car Homer designed...


----------



## joeexp




----------



## reddog

joeexp said:


> +1 Can you all hold back until the final design of the finished product is revealed …
> 
> And if anybody else complains about why there is no power cord included, I will send somebody to strangle them with a 2m meter JPS Labs Kaptovator Lite, which greatly improves clarity, dynamics, and transient response and promises to dramatically raise the performance -  if that's last thing I'm doing!



A worthy death lol to be throttled by such a cord.


----------



## Poimandres

Any thoughts on how the dacmini CX would pair with the LC? Would it be best to go with the variable output mod?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

lramirez1959 said:


> I have 2 questions for Dr. Cavalli and the community:
> 
> 1- Would the HD800 be a good pairing for the LC in SE mode ? in Balanced mode ?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can only speculate, that an HD800 should be driven in balanced mode, on the Liquid Carbon.  The nice thing is the LCD-XC included a balanced cable also, so that won't be an issue.  The Liquid Carbon is "moderately" powered, and even less so in single ended mode.  Now a Liquid Crimson would be a different story...


----------



## ejong7

poimandres said:


> Any thoughts on how the dacmini CX would pair with the LC? Would it be best to go with the variable output mod?


 

 Interested to know about this as well. Have that and the Pulse Infinity coming. But we can only really know when LC comes out i guess.


----------



## DigitalFreak

pirakaphile said:


> Well, I've already got a surge protecting power strip for my computer and amp, but I'm not sure it's a conditioner. Doesn't look too complicated, so long as you buy a pre-made on in my opinion, so I'm not sure there's much to lose except money.
> 
> And I always go deep in the hole. No exceptions.


 
ahem


----------



## lramirez1959

buttuglyjeff said:


> lramirez1959 said:
> 
> 
> > I have 2 questions for Dr. Cavalli and the community:
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot, very helpful advice.


----------



## Serenitty

joeexp said:


>




That's the one...


----------



## FredrikT92

How many sold so far?


----------



## gr8soundz

digitalfreak said:


> ahem


 
  
 I'm using a similar one: Monster HTS 1600.
  
 Still would like to use a decent power cord though. Probably something in the $20-30 range like the one you linked earlier. That combo should be more than enough for a relatively low power amp like the Carbon.


----------



## warrenpchi

Regarding power cords, I don't need one, but this is still an interesting read:  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/06/morrow-audio-map1-power-cable-rest-us/


----------



## yugas

Is this new amp completely silent even with a high sensitive CIEM?


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> Regarding power cords, I don't need one, but this is still an interesting read:  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/06/morrow-audio-map1-power-cable-rest-us/


 
 Hmmm, I'm probably gonna grab that power cable.


----------



## warrenpchi

yugas said:


> Is this new amp completely silent even with a high sensitive CIEM?


----------



## DigitalFreak

2 Marrow Audio power cables freshly ordered
 Thanks Warren


----------



## Poimandres

Wow now those are some expensive power cables.


----------



## Poimandres

In looking at smaller dacs how would the clas db fair against a larger desktop Dac? The balanced out should also be nice into the LC.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I'm pretty impressed, there hasn't been anyone on thread blurting stuff like snakeoil or blind testing comments. Its rather nice to see people being respectful and not intentionally rude and infantile. Carry on crew


----------



## Poimandres

There goes the neighborhood.


----------



## MattTCG

I spent a couple of quality hours with the carbon today. The short answer is that I'm VERY happy that I've pre-ordered this amp. IMO It's one of the best SS amps out there up to the $1k mark. I auditioned it against some very good amps several Woo, Schiit and other Cavali amps. This may be the best $600 I've spent on audio. 
  
 Word to the wise, if you haven't pre-ordered and you need an amp you should be looking very seriously at the Carbon. Word #2,plan to balance your headphone if you want all the Cavali magic.


----------



## DigitalFreak

matttcg said:


> I spent a couple of quality hours with the carbon today. The short answer is that I'm VERY happy that I've pre-ordered this amp. IMO It's one of the best SS amps out there up to the $1k mark. I auditioned it against some very good amps several Woo, Schiit and other Cavali amps. This may be the best $600 I've spent on audio.
> 
> Word to the wise, if you haven't pre-ordered and you need an amp you should be looking very seriously at the Carbon. Word #2,plan to balance your headphone if you want all the Cavali magic.


 
 Mind if I ask what DAC was in the system you heard it on


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

matttcg said:


> I spent a couple of quality hours with the carbon today. The short answer is that I'm VERY happy that I've pre-ordered this amp. IMO It's one of the best SS amps out there up to the $1k mark. I auditioned it against some very good amps several Woo, Schiit and other Cavali amps. This may be the best $600 I've spent on audio.
> 
> Word to the wise, if you haven't pre-ordered and you need an amp you should be looking very seriously at the Carbon. Word #2,plan to balance your headphone if you want all the Cavali magic.


 
  
 And what headphones were you using?


----------



## gr8soundz

digitalfreak said:


> 2 Marrow Audio power cables freshly ordered
> Thanks Warren


 
  
 I'm thinking of ordering one but the silver plating is giving me pause.
  
 Recall reading a couple posts elsewhere about silver adding harshness to the overall sound. Didn't think much of it until I heard harshness with a high-end usb cable that should've sounded better than the generic one I now use.


----------



## gr8soundz

matttcg said:


> I spent a couple of quality hours with the carbon today. The short answer is that I'm VERY happy that I've pre-ordered this amp. IMO It's one of the best SS amps out there up to the $1k mark. I auditioned it against some very good amps several Woo, Schiit and other Cavali amps. This may be the best $600 I've spent on audio.
> 
> Word to the wise, if you haven't pre-ordered and you need an amp you should be looking very seriously at the Carbon. Word #2,plan to balance your headphone if you want all the Cavali magic.


 
  
 Would like to know what DAC(s) and headphone(s) you used as well?


----------



## warrenpchi

I'm going to take a wild guess and say Alpha Dog, Alpha Prime, or ETHER... or any combination thereof.


----------



## warrenpchi

digitalfreak said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding power cords, I don't need one, but this is still an interesting read:  http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/06/morrow-audio-map1-power-cable-rest-us/
> ...


 
  
 Welcome!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


poimandres said:


> Wow now those are some expensive power cables.


----------



## MattTCG

The dacs were yggy and auralik. Headphones were exclusively the Ether. I will post more specific impressions later. I'm dog tired right now. Feel free to ask any specific questions.


----------



## gr8soundz

matttcg said:


> The dacs were yggy and auralik. Headphones were exclusively the Ether. I will post more specific impressions later. I'm dog tired right now. Feel free to ask any specific questions.


 
  
 Did you use a "regular" power cord?


----------



## mscott58

gr8soundz said:


> Did you use a "regular" power cord?




Dusted with powdered unicorn horn of course!


----------



## AxelCloris

digitalfreak said:


> ahem




Is that the one you ended up choosing? I like it.



gr8soundz said:


> I'm using a similar one: Monster HTS 1600.
> 
> Still would like to use a decent power cord though. Probably something in the $20-30 range like the one you linked earlier. That combo should be more than enough for a relatively low power amp like the Carbon.




I use the same power conditioner. Great little system and 2-phase conditioning is something I wanted when I was deliberating.


----------



## audiofrk

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Since we're all going to be here for a few months drooling over what's to come, maybe we should organize a few topics of discussion?
> 
> ...




The importance of a power supply for true balance signal.


----------



## mangler

matttcg said:


> I spent a couple of quality hours with the carbon today. The short answer is that I'm VERY happy that I've pre-ordered this amp. IMO It's one of the best SS amps out there up to the $1k mark. I auditioned it against some very good amps several Woo, Schiit and other Cavali amps. This may be the best $600 I've spent on audio.
> 
> Word to the wise, if you haven't pre-ordered and you need an amp you should be looking very seriously at the Carbon. Word #2,plan to balance your headphone if you want all the Cavali magic.




How did it do against the tube amps you listened to? How was the tonality?


----------



## MattTCG

mangler said:


> How did it do against the tube amps you listened to? How was the tonality?


It's all about tone for me. The carbon held its own against the whole group. If price were no factor I would have choosen the wa 5.


----------



## mangler

For anybody looking for an affordable and nice power cable, emotiva sells one for $50 https://emotiva.com/products/interconnects/x-iec

I don't own it, but there's a review or two out there that are positive.

If I'm not mistaken, I also believe guitar center sells generic ones for a couplets bucks, in case you don't buy the whole cables thing.


----------



## mangler

matttcg said:


> It's all about tone for me. The carbon held its own against the whole group. If price were no factor I would have choosen the wa 5.




Thanks Matt, that's great to hear! I've only owned one SS amp, and while it was overall very capable, it just lacked the tonality and touch of warmth I wanted. Now I'm looking forward even more to getting the Carbon.


----------



## DigitalFreak

axelcloris said:


> Is that the one you ended up choosing? I like it.
> I use the same power conditioner. Great little system and 2-phase conditioning is something I wanted when I was deliberating.


 
 Nope, it took me this long just to finally pick out a power cord steeped with unicorn tears and kissed by a virgin. I can only imagine how long it'll take to pick out a better DAC, power conditioner, interconnects, and balanced headphone cables. Maybe once I'm done I'll post some pics of my tweaks in the sound science forum and go all Mad Max when the science hoard bull rush me. 
  
 P.S.
 Yo guys, help a fellow head-fier out and buy some of the gear I have on the FS forums. I need the extra bones to fund all this craziness.


----------



## gr8soundz

mangler said:


> For anybody looking for an affordable and nice power cable, emotiva sells one for $50 https://emotiva.com/products/interconnects/x-iec
> 
> I don't own it, but there's a review or two out there that are positive.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, I also believe guitar center sells generic ones for a couplets bucks, in case you don't buy the whole cables thing.


 
  
 I saw that one on amazon earlier today for $70. Same price as emotiva.com (can't add to cart for $50; you must choose which length you want and the 2m adds $20 so same price in both places).


----------



## mangler

gr8soundz said:


> I saw that one on amazon earlier today for $70. Same price as emotiva.com (can't add to cart for $50; you must choose which length you want and the 2m adds $20 so same price in both places).




I just tried too and the same thing happened. That's pretty crappy  still cheaper than many cords mentions here, but come on emotiva... :/


----------



## MattTCG

If you can pony up, the moon audio pc rocks with the carbon.


----------



## DigitalFreak

COUGH
  
 I have no self control 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Balanced cable for my HifiMan HE400i is on its way


----------



## mscott58

digitalfreak said:


> COUGH
> 
> I have no self control :rolleyes:
> Balanced cable for my HifiMan HE400i is on its way




Ken's stuff is nice! Congrats


----------



## DigitalFreak

mscott58 said:


> Ken's stuff is nice! Congrats


 
 Yeah, I've heard that Ken does good work. I have some interconnects from him for my CLAS-db/RX MKIII-B
 Thanks for the support. I've just spent a total of 600 bones on cables today. I need a drink of the hard stuff.


----------



## Stillhart

I found some good info on DIY power cables. The plugs alone cost $15-20 each for the good stuff. That cheap cable on amazon seems too good to be true... Might be worth grabbing just to salvage the plugs...


----------



## MattTCG

digitalfreak said:


> COUGH
> 
> I have no self control
> 
> ...


 
 You will not regret that decision a bit.


----------



## d1sturb3d

Wow the thread forwarded a couple of pages. Anyway, I would just like to say that not everyone here have deep pockets. 599 for a headphone amp is already crazy for me, that money can buy you 2 monoblock amps. Suggesting to add cost by prettying up the case is not good. Come on this will carry the cavalli name, and the good doctor will make sure that this will be up to his standard. All the suggestions that would likely to add cost, please don't.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Well, I'm looking at a $50 Furman power conditioner for surge protection and AC filtering, since I do notice ground loops every so often and dang they get annoying. 
For pieces to make a nice headphone cable I keep ending up at Cardas. Made in USA at least, but the prices on the cables themselves are scaring me. I'm still doing my research and I'm having fun with it, but there are so many more paths to take than when I was just looking at headphones and amps at first. I gotta get to know these companies 'fore I get anything. 
I'm glad to get back into this whole detective fling, especially when I get to make a big discovery. Budget end-game setup is coming along!


----------



## DigitalFreak

pirakaphile said:


> Well, I'm looking at a $50 Furman power conditioner for surge protection and AC filtering, since I do notice ground loops every so often and dang they get annoying.
> For pieces to make a nice headphone cable I keep ending up at Cardas. Made in USA at least, but the prices on the cables themselves are scaring me. I'm still doing my research and I'm having fun with it, but there are so many more paths to take than when I was just looking at headphones and amps at first. I gotta get to know these companies 'fore I get anything.
> I'm glad to get back into this whole detective fling, especially when I get to make a big discovery. Budget end-game setup is coming along!




If you're scared now wait until you start looking at the Abysse or a Stax Omega. Plunking your hard earned bones on a system to drive those will give you a heart attack.

Let's see, I still need a power conditioner, DAC, some interconnects, another balanced cable for my T50rp Paradox, a 1/8 SE adapter for when I decide to use my other amps, and someone willing to buy my kidney. Any suggestions on what I should look at next guys? Maybe grab the balanced headphone cable for my Paradox and the SE adapter next month? From there over the next 2 months I could maybe get the interconnects and hopefully my gear will have sold by then meaning I could invest in a proper conditioner and DAC? I'm hesitant to get the interconnects because I'm still not sure what DAC ill wind up with. The Chord 2Cute looks real nice but it's almost freaking 2 grand USD.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> If you're scared now wait until you start looking at the Abysse or a Stax Omega. Plunking your hard earned bones on a system to drive those will give you a heart attack.
> 
> Let's see, I still need a power conditioner, DAC, some interconnects, another balanced cable for my T50rp Paradox, a 1/8 SE adapter for when I decide to use my other amps, and someone willing to buy my kidney. Any suggestions on what I should look at next guys? Maybe grab the balanced headphone cable for my Paradox and the SE adapter next month? From there over the next 2 months I could maybe get the interconnects and hopefully my gear will have sold by then meaning I could invest in a proper conditioner and DAC? I'm hesitant to get the interconnects because I'm still not sure what DAC ill wind up with. The Chord 2Cute looks real nice but it's almost freaking 2 grand USD.


 
  
 Yeah at that price, I'd sooner just grab a used Hugo for $2k...  
  
 Personally, I'm on a vintage DAC kick right now.  I have two vintage DAC's right now, one was under $100 before shipping (Adcom GDA-600) and one was $325 before shipping (Theta Basic II).  Both beat any Sabre DAC I've ever heard.  I find it hard to recommend anything else to folks just now, but I admit I'm still in the honeymoon period.  I'll give it a month or two and see if I'm still gaga over it.  lol


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> Yeah at that price, I'd sooner just grab a used Hugo for $2k...
> 
> Personally, I'm on a vintage DAC kick right now.  I have two vintage DAC's right now, one was under $100 before shipping (Adcom GDA-600) and one was $325 before shipping (Theta Basic II).  Both beat any Sabre DAC I've ever heard.  I find it hard to recommend anything else to folks just now, but I admit I'm still in the honeymoon period.  I'll give it a month or two and see if I'm still gaga over it.  lol




I've thought of vintage too actually. Problem with that idea is most of them don't have a USB in which is a deal killer since my source is my laptop.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> I've thought of vintage too actually. Problem with that idea is most of them don't have a USB in which is a deal killer since my source is my laptop.


 
  
 There's a really simple solution to that:  http://smile.amazon.com/GUSTARD-U12-384KHz-Digital-Interface/dp/B00PU4IXA0
  
 Some people will even use this with a DAC that has a "just okay" USB implementation as it can give better sound.


----------



## goldendarko

I agree about the 2Cute, it looks ideal to pair with the Carbon in every way EXCEPT for price. I mean seriously, $1800 for that little thing?!? Take a grand off the price and then maybe we're talking.


----------



## ejong7

Just making sure before I order, this amp will use IEC connection right? Not some power adapter or anything.


----------



## joeexp




----------



## Beolab

Its not Class A drive, it just A/B or im i wrong?


----------



## doctorjazz

digitalfreak said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I'm looking at a $50 Furman power conditioner for surge protection and AC filtering, since I do notice ground loops every so often and dang they get annoying.
> ...




Is that kidney the single end or the balanced version?


----------



## doctorjazz

I do know there is a movement of some sort preferring NOS DAC's for more "analog" sound.


----------



## drgajet

I'll take the kidney, never know when an extra might come in handy.

Jim


----------



## bearFNF

yugas said:


> Is this new amp completely silent even with a high sensitive CIEM?


 
 I listened to the amp with my Roxanne's (Single Ended) and there was noise at low level. It was not dead quiet for me... YMMV
 Alex said that the balanced output would be much better for sensitive in ears. He let me listen to his modded balanced ety's (not sure of model) the amp was quiet with them.
  
 The portable amp AKA the "silver one" was dead quiet with my Rox. very nice amp and I will be getting one of them also when it comes out.
  


warrenpchi said:


>


----------



## DPogster

Did anyone get a chance to listen to this amp with any of the AK daps. Can't seem to find a good "transportable" DAC to match the carbon (that doesn't cost an arm and a leg) and was wondering how AK products as source sounded with it.


----------



## runeight

bearfnf said:


> I listened to the amp with my Roxanne's (Single Ended) and there was noise at low level. It was not dead quiet for me... YMMV
> Alex said that the balanced output would be much better for sensitive in ears. He let me listen to his modded balanced ety's (not sure of model) the amp was quiet with them.
> 
> The portable amp AKA the "silver one" was dead quiet with my Rox. very nice amp and I will be getting one of them also when it comes out.


 
  
 As per earlier comments, the amp is quieter out of the balanced outs. I believe that few will hear noise from the bal out. And, depending on sensitivity, many should be quiet from the SE out, but not all.
  
 I'm actually noodling on some ways to lower the noise from the SE out, but this is difficult for the really sensitive IEMs.
  
 The Etys were ER4s.


----------



## gr8soundz

bearfnf said:


> I listened to the amp with my Roxanne's (Single Ended) and there was noise at low level. It was not dead quiet for me... YMMV
> Alex said that the balanced output would be much better for sensitive in ears. He let me listen to his modded balanced ety's (not sure of model) the amp was quiet with them.
> 
> The portable amp AKA the "silver one" was dead quiet with my Rox. very nice amp and I will be getting one of them also when it comes out.


 
  
 Will the portable also be balanced?
  
 I noticed the prototype had dual 3.5mm outputs.


----------



## Stillhart

Someone just posted a cheap power conditioner on the deals thread, if folks are still looking.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/14160#post_11525128


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> If you're scared now wait until you start looking at the Abysse or a Stax Omega. Plunking your hard earned bones on a system to drive those will give you a heart attack.
> 
> Let's see, I still need a power conditioner, DAC, some interconnects, another balanced cable for my T50rp Paradox, a 1/8 SE adapter for when I decide to use my other amps, and someone willing to buy my kidney. Any suggestions on what I should look at next guys? Maybe grab the balanced headphone cable for my Paradox and the SE adapter next month? From there over the next 2 months I could maybe get the interconnects and hopefully my gear will have sold by then meaning I could invest in a proper conditioner and DAC? I'm hesitant to get the interconnects because I'm still not sure what DAC ill wind up with. The Chord 2Cute looks real nice but it's almost freaking 2 grand USD.


 
 Anything over $1k I can admire, but I've no drive to spend that kind of money on audio equipment until I get into speakers. 
  
 Power conditioner shouldn't be too 'spensive, so long as you don't want all kinds of bells and whistles. Interconnects and cables can be cheaper if you make em yourself, but if not, Emotiva sells sub $100 products that are reasonably built.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > If you're scared now wait until you start looking at the Abysse or a Stax Omega. Plunking your hard earned bones on a system to drive those will give you a heart attack.
> ...


 
  
 I agree. Some of the old flagship stand alone DACs still really hold their own from awhile back, and can be found at really good prices now.


----------



## runeight

gr8soundz said:


> Will the portable also be balanced?
> 
> I noticed the prototype had dual 3.5mm outputs.


 
  
 Portable is SE. But, like the Carbon, it is totally discrete circuit, no opamps doing audio duty.


----------



## ericr

stillhart said:


> Someone just posted a cheap power conditioner on the deals thread, if folks are still looking.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/14160#post_11525128




Before buying this unit I would recommend reading the Amazon review written By h,s - December 28, 2014 to gain an understanding of how it actually works. Tripp Lite's description leads you to believe you'll always be getting 120V out, yet it seems the output will vary between 103 - 127V depending on the input voltage.

My guess it's not a bad product per se, but that this is just the level of performance available in this price range.

The sale price seems great, just know what you're getting for your money.


----------



## Stillhart

ericr said:


> Before buying this unit I would recommend reading the Amazon review written By h,s - December 28, 2014 to gain an understanding of how it actually works. Tripp Lite's description leads you to believe you'll always be getting 120V out, yet it seems the output will vary between 103 - 127V depending on the input voltage.
> 
> My guess it's not a bad product per se, but that this is just the level of performance available in this price range.
> 
> The sale price seems great, just know what you're getting for your money.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm still researching.  You can find that Monster 1800 on eBay for $120 shipped, brand new in box.  I think that might be a better unit, but more research...


----------



## runeight

Also, gents check what kind of sine wave comes out of it. Many of the conventional computer UPSs don't put out a pure sine wave (at least last time I looked).
  
 Edit: UPS not APS


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> Also, gents check what kind of sine wave comes out of it. Many of the conventional computer APSs don't put out a pure sine wave (at least last time I looked).


 
 How does one check that?  Do they tell you?  Or do we need to meaasure?


----------



## runeight

Sometimes they do tell you. But I think best to measure it using a scope.


----------



## BDM-Fi

I've got a Furman PL8-CE sitting in my guitar rack feeding an amp modeller + power amp (http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PLUSCE). These go for about $170 @ B&H. Maybe I should try it with my audio rig.
  
 I've also heard reports that "power conditioners" can negatively impact sound quality... . 
  
 Anyone have experience with the Furman products?


----------



## Poimandres

CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Systems - Pure Sine Wave | 100% Active PFC compatible

194.95 on the egg


----------



## Stillhart

poimandres said:


> CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Systems - Pure Sine Wave | 100% Active PFC compatible
> 
> 194.95 on the egg


 
  
 Only $118 on Amazon for the 1000VA version.  If we just need it for conditioning (not backup for a computer or something) we shouldn't need a massive battery, right?


----------



## Poimandres

True. I need one for both hence the 1500.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

bearfnf said:


> I listened to the amp with my Roxanne's (Single Ended) and there was noise at low level. It was not dead quiet for me... YMMV
> Alex said that the balanced output would be much better for sensitive in ears. He let me listen to his modded balanced ety's (not sure of model) the amp was quiet with them.
> 
> The portable amp AKA the "silver one" was dead quiet with my Rox. very nice amp and I will be getting one of them also when it comes out.


 

 Interesting. Jude's canjam preview mentions the LC and sensitive IEMs specifically and he states the noise floor is '_very_ low'. Subjective I guess...


----------



## Pirakaphile

bdm-fi said:


> I've got a Furman PL8-CE sitting in my guitar rack feeding an amp modeller + power amp (http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PLUSCE). These go for about $170 @ B&H. Maybe I should try it with my audio rig.
> 
> I've also heard reports that "power conditioners" can negatively impact sound quality... .
> 
> Anyone have experience with the Furman products?


 
 Shouldn't affect sound quality negatively unless something's actually wrong with cabling or hardware in the device, but it's all personal opinion. I'm gonna be getting a power conditioner from them later on since I don't see anything bad about em.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

bdm-fi said:


> I've got a Furman PL8-CE sitting in my guitar rack feeding an amp modeller + power amp (http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PLUSCE). These go for about $170 @ B&H. Maybe I should try it with my audio rig.
> 
> I've also heard reports that "power conditioners" can negatively impact sound quality... .
> 
> Anyone have experience with the Furman products?


 
  
 I use a Furman rack mount conditioner, for my bass guitar rig.  I don't know about its "conditioning" qualities, but its saved my butt many times at locations with questionable power supplies.....


----------



## DigitalFreak

If a conditioner is outputting a variable voltage and not outputting a stable level of juice I think its far smarter to throw out a few extra bones for something that can. Personally, I'm more inclined to get something I can just drop on the floor behind my desk and forget about. I really don't like the idea of a power conditioner eating up needed deskspace. But, it seems that everything I've looked into is designed to sit on ones desk/rack. The few I've found that fit my needs are priced sky high.


----------



## DigitalFreak

check it guys


----------



## joeexp

This guy is talking a lot of nonsense and clearly hasn't got a clue what he is talking about.


----------



## mscott58

If you want to get an amazing power conditioner and are willing to do a bit of searching you can find industrial strength Topaz Line 1 or Line 2 Power Conditioners for a steal. These things retail for up to thousands, but can be had used for cheap. There's always a risk they hum a little bit, but when you're getting something for 10% of its price then that's a risk you might want to take, and with headphones you'll be unlikely to hear it anyway. I have two of these protecting the two channels of my stereo setup and I rest well that I can leave it on 24/7 and never worry about anything getting through. . 
  
 Here's a number that are on eBay currently. They're used and sometimes a bit beat-up, so they're not audio eye-candy, but they were built for very sensitive industrial or laboratory equipment, so are very well made.  YMMV of course, but I love these things. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topaz-Line-2-power-conditioner-model-02406-01P3-1kW-used-works-/251656503126?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a97e57f56
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topaz-Power-Conditioner-4-line-output-computer-electronics-protection-/291432902970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dac1313a
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topaz-Line-2-Power-Conditioner-120VAC-6-8-6-Hz-8-3A-Model-70303-/191433180734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c924e863e
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2055119.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xtopaz+power+conditioner.TRS0&_nkw=topaz+power+conditioner&_sacat=0
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topaz-1KVA-120-Volt-10-Amp-Line-2-Power-Conditioner-02406-01P3-/191542260264?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c98cef228
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topaz-line-2-power-conditioner-/281652882186?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4193d1eb0a


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> If a conditioner is outputting a variable voltage and not outputting a stable level of juice I think its far smarter to throw out a few extra bones for something that can. Personally, I'm more inclined to get something I can just drop on the floor behind my desk and forget about. I really don't like the idea of a power conditioner eating up needed deskspace. But, it seems that everything I've looked into is designed to sit on ones desk/rack. The few I've found that fit my needs are priced sky high.


 
 From what I can tell, the Furman Elite 15i is about the cheapest ($300) power filter and conditioner that would be considered 'audiophile' quality. But that's just my budget range that I've found and it's at the very top of my willingness to part with cash on a power related thing. I'm sure there are tons of others that'll perform as well but I've only spent one day on research so far.


----------



## Pirakaphile

mscott58 said:


> If you want to get an amazing power conditioner and are willing to do a bit of searching you can find industrial strength Topaz Line 1 or Line 2 Power Conditioners for a steal. These things retail for up to thousands, but can be had used for cheap. There's always a risk they hum a little bit, but when you're getting something for 10% of its price then that's a risk you might want to take, and with headphones you'll be unlikely to hear it anyway. I have two of these protecting the two channels of my stereo setup and I rest well that I can leave it on 24/7 and never worry about anything getting through. .
> 
> Here's a number that are on eBay currently. They're used and sometimes a bit beat-up, so they're not audio eye-candy, but they were built for very sensitive industrial or laboratory equipment, so are very well made.  YMMV of course, but I love these things.
> 
> ...


 
 They tried pretty damn hard to make some of the most generic and boring looking pieces of equipment on the market, didn't they?  I like the prices, and I'm trying to find specs on their site.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

.....August is 4 months away.


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> .....August is 4 months away.


 
 Do you need me to mail you some pokemon games? Start on those little bastards and every time you look up a week will have passed.


----------



## DigitalFreak

pirakaphile said:


> From what I can tell, the Furman Elite 15i is about the cheapest ($300) power filter and conditioner that would be considered 'audiophile' quality. But that's just my budget range that I've found and it's at the very top of my willingness to part with cash on a power related thing. I'm sure there are tons of others that'll perform as well but I've only spent one day on research so far.


 
 Its really 300 bones?!?!?!?!


----------



## drgajet

And it still doesn't regulate voltage, just shuts down if too far over or under.


----------



## DigitalFreak

drgajet said:


> And it still doesn't regulate voltage, just shuts down if too far over or under.


 
 Really?? Ok, Obviously power conditioners work far more differently then I originally thought, My apologies for being such a silly noob.
 Is that kind of voltage swing normal though????


----------



## DigitalFreak

Hmph, looks like I really put my foot in my mouth.
@drgajet Looks like your model of Fermon is one of the more well regarded conditioners on the market


----------



## MattTCG

This thread has gotten somewhat weird for me. I just want to chime in an say the Carbon with Mr. Speakers Ether was simply sublime and the star of the show for me and many at the Nashville meet. I've found my end game with these two pieces and a good dac. Call me done.


----------



## Emerpus

matttcg said:


> This thread has gotten somewhat weird for me. I just want to chime in an say the Carbon with Mr. Speakers Ether was simply sublime and the star of the show for me and many at the Nashville meet. I've found my end game with these two pieces and a good dac. Call me done.


 
  
 Did you, by any chance, auditioned the Carbon with the Alpha Prime?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I'm sorry to say that I didn't. I was completely engrossed with the Ether and Carbon combo.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

matttcg said:


> This thread has gotten somewhat weird for me. I just want to chime in an say the Carbon with Mr. Speakers Ether was simply sublime and the star of the show for me and many at the Nashville meet. I've found my end game with these two pieces and a good dac. Call me done.


 
  
 I'm hoping to hear the same pairing at the November NYC Meet.  It would seem the Ether begs for a dead quiet amp...


----------



## MattTCG

matttcg said:


> ^^ I'm sorry to say that I didn't. I was completely engrossed with the Ether and Carbon combo.


 
  
 The Primes were plugged in the Carbon on several occasion but I can't remember who was listening. Maybe they will chime in though.


----------



## doctorjazz

Have the Furman 15i in my main rig, no problems, seems to perform well


----------



## DigitalFreak

whoa


----------



## money4me247

matttcg said:


> This thread has gotten somewhat weird for me. I just want to chime in an say the Carbon with Mr. Speakers Ether was simply sublime and the star of the show for me and many at the Nashville meet. I've found my end game with these two pieces and a good dac. Call me done.




+1. thank god for some real impressions. not sure why other ppl are already looking to invest a lot of money in power cables or conditioners or whatever other random accessory for an accessory. I thought the whole point of the carbon was to be affordable. would make more sense to me just move up to a pricier amp if you have the extra money.


----------



## drgajet

digitalfreak said:


> whoa




I bought the Panamax 4300 for one of my rigs for under $200 on Amazon. To get voltage regulation you have to get the 5400 and the cost goes up to around $450. I'm glad to see them in the video, I think they offer a lot of features for a more reasonable price. 

Jim


----------



## warrenpchi

matttcg said:


> This thread has gotten somewhat weird for me.


 
  
 Lol, we've got a few months of waiting ahead, and we're bored.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


matttcg said:


> I just want to chime in an say the Carbon with Mr. Speakers Ether was simply sublime and the star of the show for me and many at the Nashville meet. I've found my end game with these two pieces and a good dac. Call me done.


 
  
 Wow... them's some strong words there.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, someone finally started an impressions thread for Nashville:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/763461/music-city-meet-spring-2015-pics-impressions-thread


----------



## Emerpus

matttcg said:


> The Primes were plugged in the Carbon on several occasion but I can't remember who was listening. Maybe they will chime in though.


 
  
 Ha ha ... the Ether is that good?
  
 No worries, I'll likely stick with my Prime and dream of the Ether.
  
 Can't really use an Open Can due to a waterfall approximately 20 meters away from my room.


----------



## money4me247

emerpus said:


> Can't really use an Open Can due to a waterfall approximately 20 meters away from my room.


 
 that sounds really pretty!!!


----------



## runeight

Hello gents. I know that some of you are looking at power conditioning...............and I don't want to suggest this is bad idea, because it may not be..............
  
 The Carbon has a universal switch mode power supply. This means that it is expressly designed and expects to see a line/mains voltage anywhere from 85V to 250V at either 50Hz or 60hz. In a sense, it already has a power conditioner in it, or more accurately, it responds well even to significant changes in line voltage. One thing you don't want to do is to introduce any unnecessary noise into it from a line conditioner.
  
 The other associated equipment (with linear supplies) may benefit from a conditioner, but the Carbon probably won't. The Carbon is a fairly accurate amp, especially for its size and weight. It will tell what your source and headphones sound like fairly well. If it were me, and it isn't, I would focus on my DAC and headphones and get good interconnects. I think that's where you will see the most gains for the buck.
  
 MHO.


----------



## warrenpchi

Wait a tick, first you sell us an endgame amp for under $600, then you tell us not to spend money unnecessarily... are you sure you're a hi-fi audio manufacturer?  Because you're not sounding like one right now.


----------



## DigitalFreak

so screw the conditioner and just get good interconnects and DAC??


----------



## Poimandres

That's what the good Doctor stated.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Seems like what he was saying. It's what I'm doing anyway.


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> Its really 300 bones?!?!?!?!



I mean, I'm pretty sure we're talking about a component that you would use after already having an end game setup. I'm planning on getting their $50 one just to solve the AC noise I get from my 65 year old house's original wiring. And it protects against power spikes and such. For the money, I'd say it's a good buy. 
For the $300 one, I bet it doesn't clean up much more than the $50 one, but I've never heard it. I'm just assuming it's like most things I've heard already. The base line model performs well, and everything else just adds a few extra percentages and fractions.


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> Wait a tick, first you sell us an endgame amp for under $600, then you tell us not to spend money unnecessarily... are you sure you're a hi-fi audio manufacturer?  Because you're not sounding like one right now.



Very suspicious.. I bet he doesn't even believe in capitolism anymore!


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I know that some of you are looking at power conditioning...............and I don't want to suggest this is bad idea, because it may not be..............
> 
> The Carbon has a universal switch mode power supply. This means that it is expressly designed and expects to see a line/mains voltage anywhere from 85V to 250V at either 50Hz or 60hz. In a sense, it already has a power conditioner in it, or more accurately, it responds well even to significant changes in line voltage. One thing you don't want to do is to introduce any unnecessary noise into it from a line conditioner.
> 
> ...



So are we gonna bring up the 'what DAC looks good with the Carbon on/near/on top of/within it?' Conversation again? 
DAC will be coming up in 2 years, since it'll be closer to $1k than my $500 budget. Interconnects will follow later, and then speaker journey will begin. I'm confident the Carbon will be my last stop for amps in the headphone department. After that it'll be all up to listening to old favorites and discovering new music.


----------



## runeight

Quote:


warrenpchi said:


> Wait a tick, first you sell us an endgame amp for under $600, then you tell us not to spend money unnecessarily... are you sure you're a hi-fi audio manufacturer?  Because you're not sounding like one right now.


 
  
 Well.......I could be wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


pirakaphile said:


> I mean, I'm pretty sure we're talking about a component that you would use after already having an end game setup. I'm planning on getting their $50 one just to solve the AC noise I get from my 65 year old house's original wiring. And it protects against power spikes and such. For the money, I'd say it's a good buy.
> For the $300 one, I bet it doesn't clean up much more than the $50 one, but I've never heard it. I'm just assuming it's like most things I've heard already. The base line model performs well, and everything else just adds a few extra percentages and fractions.


 
  
 There are couple of good reasons here to do something before the equipment. Lots of noise on house AC and surge protection.
  
 But, in seeking the best SQ one can get, MHO is that the DAC and headphones are the real keys to the equation. So if I made either of these two things I'd be about as clever as there is.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Quote:
> 
> Well.......I could be wrong. h34r:
> 
> ...



Since I can hear it through the Schiit I've got, and the Carbon is really quiet, I have no doubts I'll want to get rid of that noise before the amp gets here. 

Hey, clever doesn't mean a thing if you aren't having fun! Amps seem to be your thing, so as long as you're happy (and judging by the smiles in all those pictures, you are) there's nothin' more you gotta do!


----------



## runeight

Oh. I am not saying the power conditioners are not useful for audio rigs. Sometimes they can be critical. I'm only saying that the Carbon doesn't really need one. It's the DIYer in me who I've been keeping locked up for the last four years.


----------



## gr8soundz

Well said Dr. C.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Oh. I am not saying the power conditioners are not useful for audio rigs. Sometimes they can be critical. I'm only saying that the Carbon doesn't really need one. It's the DIYer in me who I've been keeping locked up for the last four years.



All I want is dead silence between the notes, and I gotta find out how to do it! 
Why don't you start customizing every amp you make, so each one is a little different? Sure, the customers will cry and sue and commit acts of vandalism, but you won't have the urges anymore! Then again, you could always grab a student/padawan


----------



## warrenpchi

> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Wait a tick, first you sell us an endgame amp for under $600, then you tell us not to spend money unnecessarily... are you sure you're a hi-fi audio manufacturer?  Because you're not sounding like one right now.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, Ima give him funny looks for a while to see if he cracks under the pressure... um, or not rather, as I kinda like how he's thinking these days.  
  


runeight said:


> But, in seeking the best SQ one can get, MHO is that the DAC and headphones are the real keys to the equation. So if I made either of these two things I'd be about as clever as there is.


 
  
 Lol, don't say that, @DigitalFreak is gonna go apeschiit with anticipation!
  



runeight said:


> Oh. I am not saying the power conditioners are not useful for audio rigs. Sometimes they can be critical. I'm only saying that the Carbon doesn't really need one. It's the DIYer in me who I've been keeping locked up for the last four years.


 
 YOU'RE FREE!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Originally Posted by *Pirakaphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Then again, you could always grab a student/padawan


 
  
 I know who I'm voting for!


----------



## Pirakaphile

Now that I'm learning more about what can actually suppress what types of noise, whqt would actually get rid of it completely? I'm replacing the florescent bulbs with LED soon, more for the fact that ai won't have to change em for 20 years than the RF noise which I doubt is audible due to the distance. I'll be getting a larger desk in a month or so, so the computer will be further from the DAC and amp. Ferrite clip on things'll be going on wires to further shield them since I've taken dozens off old computer cables, and I'll be getting the power conditioner/DC noise suppressor thing to make sure the annoying DIT-DADIT-DIT-DADIT sound stops happening. 
Anything else I should get or cut out of my budget in regards to noise suppression?


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> Yeah, Ima give him funny looks for a while to see if he cracks under the pressure... um, or not rather, as I kinda like how he's thinking these days.
> 
> 
> Lol, don't say that, @DigitalFreak
> ...



It's almost as if he values the money of not only himself, but others. How, how selfless! 

And whodat? Since I'm definitely not a DIYer, I prolly shouldn't know anyone from that skillset anyway.


----------



## warrenpchi

pirakaphile said:


> the annoying DIT-DADIT-DIT-DADIT sound


 
  
 Um, wut?  Seriously though, I'm not even sure what you're describing, and that concerns me because you might have a much bigger issue on your hands there.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> Now that I'm learning more about what can actually suppress what types of noise, whqt would actually get rid of it completely? I'm replacing the florescent bulbs with LED soon, more for the fact that ai won't have to change em for 20 years than the RF noise which I doubt is audible due to the distance. I'll be getting a larger desk in a month or so, so the computer will be further from the DAC and amp. Ferrite clip on things'll be going on wires to further shield them since I've taken dozens off old computer cables, and I'll be getting the power conditioner/DC noise suppressor thing to make sure the *annoying DIT-DADIT-DIT-DADIT *sound stops happening.
> Anything else I should get or cut out of my budget in regards to noise suppression?


 
 sounds like you are describing the sound of those dial-up internet services lol


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> Um, wut?  Seriously though, I'm not even sure what you're describing, and that concerns me because you might have a much bigger issue on your hands there.



Ground loop I think. It's not really loud, just apparent when I've got headphones on. I've heard it through both tvs and several speaker things, so I know it's not just my Schiit or anything. I think the power conditioner with the AC filtration should solve it, but I'm not exactly sure.


----------



## Pirakaphile

money4me247 said:


> sounds like you are describing the sound of those dial-up internet services lol



I had dial up for the first 15 years of my life, and I have to say.. I kinda miss that SPLREEEEEECH-BOPBOOPBOOPBEEPBOOP---BDRDRDRDRDRfWAACHK noise at the beginning of every internet session. 

I don't miss 56.6 KBPS.


----------



## Poimandres

Lol. 56k.....I remember thinking that that was fast back in 1995.....


----------



## Pirakaphile

poimandres said:


> Lol. 56k.....I remember thinking that that was fast back in 1995.....



With Google Fiber, you can stream ultrasuperlossless DSD65,000! 100 GBPS is just crazy though.


----------



## mscott58

poimandres said:


> Lol. 56k.....I remember thinking that that was fast back in 1995.....


 
 Serious flashback there. 
  
 I also remember buying a replacement hard-drive back in 1992 for $400+. Guess the capacity? 40MB. A handful of high-rez photos these days would fill that thing up!


----------



## goldendarko

40MB? That's like half of one Hi-Res song! On an entire Hard Drive, lol. Crazy how far we've come in 20 years, the computer on your wrist is more powerful than your big desktop setup back in the day.


----------



## warrenpchi

pirakaphile said:


> that SPLREEEEEECH-BOPBOOPBOOPBEEPBOOP---*BDRDRDRDRDRfWAACHK* noise at the beginning of every internet session.


 
  
 That was the best part! Like getting to the chorus of a song... memories.


----------



## Poimandres

Well I bit the bullet and opted in on the MD for the CEntrance Dacmini CX. Hell for the price you can't go wrong. I went with the 1 ohm mod but didn't go for the variable output mod. 

Are there are pros or cons for the variable output on the lineout? It will likely only get used as an input to the LC.


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> That was the best part! Like getting to the chorus of a song... memories.



I should find a hi-res recording of it so I can see what I've been missing all these years.. 

But to keep the thread at least headphone oriented, I should ask my uncle if I can have his headphones that have volume control on each side. I think he said something about 79'?


----------



## warrenpchi

poimandres said:


> Are there are pros or cons for the variable output on the lineout? It will likely only get used as an input to the LC.


 
  
 For that specific usage case, no, no cons.  Just out of curiosity, what was the deal?


----------



## Poimandres

It is still on for 385.


----------



## Poimandres

Any pros? I would think it would be better to use the LC's pot to control the volume. Which I why I changed to a fixed output. Dr Cavalli any input?


----------



## Pirakaphile

poimandres said:


> Well I bit the bullet and opted in on the MD for the CEntrance Dacmini CX. Hell for the price you can't go wrong. I went with the 1 ohm mod but didn't go for the variable output mod.
> 
> Are there are pros or cons for the variable output on the lineout? It will likely only get used as an input to the LC.



Gaak, all in one monstrosity!  so what is MD and the 1ohm mod and variable output? (Is dumb)


----------



## Poimandres

Not certain I follow. The two mods are free through Massdrop.


----------



## runeight

poimandres said:


> Any pros? I would think it would be better to use the LC's pot to control the volume. Which I why I changed to a fixed output. Dr Cavalli any input?


 
  
 This depends a lot on the particular device, but in general I think the fewer components between the DAC and the amp the better (assuming good design).


----------



## money4me247

warrenpchi said:


> For that specific usage case, no, no cons.  Just out of curiosity, what was the deal?


 
 actually more along $399 with shipping, though you can get free var mod & 1 ohm mod if desired.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> Gaak, all in one monstrosity!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 MD stands for massdrop, it is a group buy website for audio deals. do note though you are not allowed to talk about other group buy type websites here on head-fi.
  
 1 ohm mod is basically the output impedance is set to 1 ohm instead of 10 ohms. variable output mod means the volume control will control both the headphone jack and rca jacks. no variable output mod means the volume control only works for devices plugged into the headphone jack.
  
 edit: the pros of having the variable mod would be if you want to use the volume pot to control speakers as well as headphones. the con would be if your speakers already have a separate volume control and you don't want that volume to change whenever you adjust the volume pot for your headphones. so if you want volume knob to act as a dedicated volume for just the headphone out, then no var mod.


----------



## Pirakaphile

money4me247 said:


> MD stands for massdrop, it is a group buy website for audio deals. do note though you are not allowed to talk about other group buy type websites here on head-fi.
> 
> 1 ohm mod is basically the output impedance is set to 1 ohm instead of 10 ohms. variable output mod means the volume control will control both the headphone jack and rca jacks. no variable output mod means the volume control only works for devices plugged into the headphone jack.
> 
> edit: the pros of having the variable mod would be if you want to use the volume pot to control speakers as well as headphones. the con would be if your speakers already have a separate volume control and you don't want that volume to change whenever you adjust the volume pot for your headphones. so if you want volume knob to act as a dedicated volume for just the headphone out, then no var mod.



Other than the entire K7XX thread. And the Deals discussion thread. 
I knew about massdrop, I just usually never use abbreviations as some kind of silent rebellion against textspeak. 

And thanks gor explaining the mods, I was confused about it, and now I'm enlightened.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> Other than the entire K7XX thread. And the Deals discussion thread.
> I knew about massdrop, I just usually never use abbreviations as some kind of silent rebellion against textspeak.
> 
> And thanks gor explaining the mods, I was confused about it, and now I'm enlightened.


 
 you're welcome. a lot of us post replies via smartphones, so txtspeak is a lot fast3r


----------



## Pirakaphile

money4me247 said:


> you're welcome. a lot of us post replies via smartphones, so txtspeak is a lot fast3r



Don't you do it or I'll summon my horde of Tumbler based grammar nazis. 
I could imagine the company names.. Cvli, Snnsr, Hfman, mrspkrs, Aze.. Makes me angry! Grrrr!


----------



## goldendarko

wht's dis guyz prb?


----------



## Stillhart

goldendarko said:


> wht's dis guyz prb?


 
 ikr?


----------



## joeexp

Thanks god for the end if this power conditioner frenzy. This is meant to be a portable device! Every power supply has filters already built in.....

In particular Switched-Mode Power Supplies - which the LC is going to have one of, are designed that way.

The LC in a way has the same inherent problem as the Audeze EL-8. People expecting way too much of cheaper entry-level products.

Well - a brand is the promise of an experience - as they say. I hope the LC delivers.


----------



## Stillhart

joeexp said:


> Thanks god for the end if this power conditioner frenzy. This is meant to be a portable device!


 
  
 I don't know that I'd call it a frenzy.  Just some good information passing around for those that are interested in potentially eking out the last few % of their gear when they already have the DAC and interconnects taken care of (per Dr. Cavalli's suggestion).  And of course, since most of us will be using a computer as a source, it's usually quite handy to have your computer on a UPS.  Whether you believe in the sonic benefits or not, a battery backup is a useful device.
  
 But it's a relief to know that the amp is designed well enough to not need a power conditioner.  That's actually a really nice selling point IMO.


----------



## Serenitty

pirakaphile said:


> I should find a hi-res recording of it so I can see what I've been missing all these years..
> 
> But to keep the thread at least headphone oriented, I should ask my uncle if I can have his headphones that have volume control on each side. I think he said something about 79'?


 

 Group:  Information society,
 Album:  Peace and Love, Inc. 
 Track 12: 300bps, 8, n, 1 
  
 It's annoying, but it may be what you're looking for.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> so screw the conditioner and just get good interconnects and DAC??


 
  
 Just show some patience.  If after you have the Liquid Carbon, and you have noise you can't explain (actually you can), then maybe a conditioner will be in your future...


----------



## longbowbbs

So I started on the Internet when it was Arpanet. We logged in with a Unix script via an acoustic coupler modem at 110 baud half duplex....
  

  
 At least you could mess with your friends connection by lifting the handset and whistling..


----------



## Poimandres

Ah the old rotary dialed phones. We had a party line well into the 90's.


----------



## joeexp

Can we please have more reviews of the LC on how the sound with different Headphones/DACs. As very few people actually have heard them. Perhaps also a comparison on how they sound compared to the other Cavalli Audio amps would be interesting.
 Instead going off into the realm of Telephone nostalgia. No offence.


----------



## MattTCG

I also heard several other hp's with the carbon besides the Ether. Honestly, I didn't find a "bad" pairing. I tried the hd800 and Alpha Primes by Mr. Speakers. Both were impressively musical and driven with good authority (although both of those needed the gain switch engaged where the Ether did not).


----------



## Pirakaphile

I haven't actually heard anyone say anything about listening to HiFiMAN through the Carbon. Since the Magni puts out less power than the Carbon and it gets plenty loud for me, I'll guess that the Cavalli has plenty of headroom. As for how it'll actually sound, I guess time will tell. 
Just like how I'm not gonna watch any of the Star Wars previews, maybe I should try not to read reviews of the Carbon until I hear it myself.


----------



## pedalhead

FYI we're up to order #689 this morning - meaning approx 293 ordered so far (presumably with some small variation depending on whether any non-Carbon orders have been made in the past few days).
  
 I'm guessing I won't be alone here in intending to pair this with a Pulse Infinite....?


----------



## AxelCloris

pedalhead said:


> FYI we're up to order #689 this morning - meaning approx 293 ordered so far (presumably with some small variation depending on whether any non-Carbon orders have been made in the past few days).
> 
> I'm guessing I won't be alone here in intending to pair this with a Pulse Infinite....?


 
  
 You certainly will not be alone, of that I assure you.


----------



## jexby

axelcloris said:


> You certainly will not be alone, of that I assure you.


 
  
 also my plan.  wondering which component will arrive first since the new Infinity chassis was my preference.


----------



## pedalhead

jexby said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > You certainly will not be alone, of that I assure you.
> ...


 
  
 Likewise.  My money's on the Cavalli arriving first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ejong7

pedalhead said:


> FYI we're up to order #689 this morning - meaning approx 293 ordered so far (presumably with some small variation depending on whether any non-Carbon orders have been made in the past few days).
> 
> I'm guessing I won't be alone here in intending to pair this with a Pulse Infinite....?


 

 We'll both enjoy the same pairing in the UK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.....well after our bums get scorched by VAT and shipping fees first.


----------



## DVass13

My question is: which will arrive first, the Pulse infinity or the Geek Out V2? And will either of those beat the LC?


----------



## ejong7

dvass13 said:


> My question is: which will arrive first, the Pulse infinity or the Geek Out V2? And will either of those beat the LC?


 

 Well a few Pulse Infinity already shipped, and the V2 *SEEMS* to be going into production soon, while Mr. Cavalli just ordered parts for the LC so maybe Pulse>V2>LC in terms of shipping? But then again that doesn't mean anything with the completely unpredictable Pulse shipping schedule.


----------



## digitalzed

pedalhead said:


> FYI we're up to order #689 this morning - meaning approx 293 ordered so far (presumably with some small variation depending on whether any non-Carbon orders have been made in the past few days).
> 
> I'm guessing I won't be alone here in intending to pair this with a Pulse Infinite....?


 

 I will be right there with you.


----------



## mscott58

I listened to the LC sourced from a Geek Pulse Xfi through LCD-3's at CanJam and it sounded very good. Appeared to be very good synergy between the Pulse and the LC and the LCD-3's sounded awesome in that set-up. Didn't get a huge amount of time with them, it was at a show and many people were looking for time with the LC. Also was there just as Alex realized he had some stuff stolen from his table, so we were all trying to see what we could do to help. 
  
 I'll be pairing the LC with the Pulse Infinity (when it shows up) and my LCD-3's for my desktop system and then likely if I decide to make it transportable it would be with a GO V2 and with the Noble K10's. For my desktop system I'll be doing a shoot-off with the Geek HPA SS (again when it shows up) and the Bakoon HPA-21 and the LC. 
  
 Hope this is useful!


----------



## ejong7

mscott58 said:


> I listened to the LC sourced from a Geek Pulse Xfi through LCD-3's at CanJam and it sounded very good. Appeared to be very good synergy between the Pulse and the LC and the LCD-3's sounded awesome in that set-up. Didn't get a huge amount of time with them, it was at a show and many people were looking for time with the LC. Also was there just as Alex realized he had some stuff stolen from his table, so we were all trying to see what we could do to help.
> 
> I'll be pairing the LC with the Pulse Infinity (when it shows up) and my LCD-3's for my desktop system and then likely if I decide to make it transportable it would be with a GO V2 and with the Noble K10's. For my desktop system I'll be doing a shoot-off with the Geek HPA SS (again when it shows up) and the Bakoon HPA-21 and the LC.
> 
> Hope this is useful!


 

 When the LC show up would be interesting to hear about your opinion about the Bakoon HPA-21 vs it.


----------



## mscott58

ejong7 said:


> When the LC show up would be interesting to hear about your opinion about the Bakoon HPA-21 vs it.




Will do. 

The Bakoon is great in current mode with the LCD-3's but I'd really like an amp that can also drive TOTL CIEMs just as well, and that is not how the Bakoon shines. 

Cheers


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> I listened to the LC sourced from a Geek Pulse Xfi through LCD-3's at CanJam and it sounded very good. Appeared to be very good synergy between the Pulse and the LC and the LCD-3's sounded awesome in that set-up. Didn't get a huge amount of time with them, it was at a show and many people were looking for time with the LC. Also was there just as *Alex realized he had some stuff stolen from his table*, so we were all trying to see what we could do to help.


 
  
 Who would steal from this guy!?
  
 Hope they find the idiots!


----------



## mscott58

gr8soundz said:


> Who would steal from this guy!?
> 
> Hope they find the idiots!




Seriously. And he wasn't the only one who had the same issue. We're all hoping it was someone from outside the community.


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> Seriously. And he wasn't the only one who had the same issue. We're all hoping it was someone from outside the community.


 
  
 Haven't been to a meet yet and never met Dr. Alex but anyone who would bother to create a version of his product for 1/5th the price of EVERYTHING else he sells is not a bad guy.
  
 Along with that, he takes a good deal of time (when other sponsors seemingly can't be bothered) to answer ALL of our questions here (whether good questions or juvenile). That is the mark of, at minimum, a very good guy.


----------



## reddog

gr8soundz said:


> Haven't been to a meet yet and never met Dr. Alex but anyone who would bother to create a version of his product for 1/5th the price of EVERYTHING else he sells is not a bad guy.
> 
> Along with that, he takes a good deal of time (when other sponsors seemingly can't be bothered) to answer ALL of our questions here (whether good questions or juvenile). That is the mark of, at minimum, a very good guy.



+1 Well said.


----------



## mscott58

gr8soundz said:


> Haven't been to a meet yet and never met Dr. Alex but anyone who would bother to create a version of his product for 1/5th the price of EVERYTHING else he sells is not a bad guy.
> 
> Along with that, he takes a good deal of time (when other sponsors seemingly can't be bothered) to answer ALL of our questions here (whether good questions or juvenile). That is the mark of, at minimum, a very good guy.




All this and more comes through in person as well!


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> All this and more comes through in person as well!


 
  
 I figured as much but didn't wanna say for lack of 1st hand experience.
  
 I wonder if the culprits bothered meeting/speaking to him beforehand? Very bold if they did.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Exactly what was stolen from his table? If they were head-fiers maybe they'll try and sell the goods on here an we could keep an eye open on the FS forums


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> Exactly what was stolen from his table? If they were head-fiers maybe they'll try and sell the goods on here an we could keep an eye open on the FS forums


 
  
 I believe someone stole one of the prototype IEM amps.  If so, there's no way to sell that thing without getting caught.


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> I believe someone stole one of the prototype IEM amps.  If so, there's no way to sell that thing without getting caught.


 
 Oh man that really sucks


----------



## vhsownsbeta

stillhart said:


> I believe someone stole one of the prototype IEM amps.  If so, there's no way to sell that thing without getting caught.




May their bass be muddy, midrange lacking, and treble ever sibilant (although now that they have a cavalli amp I doubt this would be possible...)


----------



## mscott58

A pair of K10U's as well...


----------



## Poimandres

On a different note at least they have good taste. Hopefully they are apprehended.


----------



## mscott58

poimandres said:


> On a different note at least they have good taste. Hopefully they are apprehended.


 
 LOL! Nice. 
  
 Haven't heard anything about the status of the search. Any updates Warren or other HeadFi crew members? 
  
 Cheers


----------



## bearFNF

As far as I knew it was a pair of Noble EIM's that was taken from Cavalli's table, a pair of Layla's and/or Angie's from JH's table, a prototype DAP (non-functioning) from Questyle, and a Vero cable adapter from MIT cables.  So yeah, the show got hit pretty hard by some dirt bag...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

bearfnf said:


> As far as I knew it was a pair of Noble EIM's that was taken from Cavalli's table, a pair of Layla's and/or Angie's from JH's table, a prototype DAP (non-functioning) from Questyle, and a Vero cable adapter from MIT cables.  So yeah, the show got hit pretty hard by some dirt bag...


 
  
 Quite the collection of crimes on the California audiophile community.....


----------



## money4me247

buttuglyjeff said:


> Quite the collection of crimes on the California audiophile community.....


 
 really puts a damper on the fun friendly atmosphere when ppl have to watch their backs from thieves among your own  sorry for everyone affected.


----------



## Poimandres

Indeed. 

Did you join the MD for the dacmini?


----------



## doctorjazz

Very sorry to hear it, really stinks! Going to the NY Meet (I hope) in a few weeks, likely things will be more watched after this...really sad.


----------



## money4me247

poimandres said:


> Indeed. Did you join the MD for the dacmini?


 
 ahhh... such a tempting price for a combo unit, but honestly, I already have a bunch of amps/dacs that I really enjoy. more on the market for trying balanced stuff now. would really be either the dacmini or this amplifier, and this cavalli amplifier seems a lot more interesting for me. hope you enjoy yours & love to hear your impression on it. PM me if you remember


----------



## Poimandres

Will do, 4 months is a long time out. Need something to hold me over, plus curious to see how it feeds the LC.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Sounds like Mr Sticky finger was at the show looking for a 5 finger discount. 
 Kind of sucks all this happened at the show.


----------



## warrenpchi

Cleaned up the first post, and updated it with MattTCG's impressions from the Nashville meet.


----------



## runeight

My guess is that this was planned. Whoever took the IEMs knew what he/she was taking. And, of course, IEMs are easy to pocket and hide relative to anything else. But the IEMs that were lifted were not cheapos.
  
 There were a LOT of people at CanJam 2015 and it could simply be that someone intentionally took advantage of this. It does change things a little, at least for me, in how I will manage the things that are at the tables. But in terms of enjoying the show and the people, nothing will change about that.


----------



## warrenpchi

Okay Arly (@DigitalFreak), I know you got your Liquid Carbon review unit today... IMPRESSIONS?  Maybe we should all bug the heck out of you via PM?


----------



## mscott58

Meet Alex's new booth attendants. The Cavalli Audio collars are still being made...


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> Okay Arly (@DigitalFreak), I know you got your Liquid Carbon review unit today... IMPRESSIONS?  Maybe we should all bug the heck out of you via PM?


 
 Gee, thanks Warren


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> Okay Arly (@DigitalFreak
> ), I know you got your Liquid Carbon review unit today... IMPRESSIONS?  Maybe we should all bug the heck out of you via PM?







digitalfreak said:


> Gee, thanks Warren
> :blink:



Are we there yet?
How about now?
Now?


----------



## DigitalFreak

yeah i'm here, an yes i'm listening to it as I type this


----------



## goldendarko

digitalfreak said:


> yeah i'm here, an yes i'm listening to it as I type this



 


ANNNNDDD.... 

Just curious, what headphones are you listening to it with, and what is the exact location of your jaw right now?


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > yeah i'm here, an yes i'm listening to it as I type this
> ...


 
 first off, I'm picking my jaw off the floor
 As for headphones, thus far Ive tried the K712, Q701. HE-400i, T50rp Paradox and Audeze EL-8 closed


----------



## warrenpchi

Wait, isn't there someone else from Winnipeg in here?  Get thee to Arly's place!


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> Wait, isn't there someone else from Winnipeg in here?  Get thee to Arly's place!


 
 great, now I have to nail my windows and doors shut to keep the local head-fi crew out


----------



## goldendarko

warrenpchi said:


> Wait, isn't there someone else from Winnipeg in here?  Get thee to Arly's place!



 


Does it run SE & Balanced at the same time?! We should be receiving dual impressions, simultaneously!


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Wait, isn't there someone else from Winnipeg in here?  Get thee to Arly's place!
> ...


 
 there's a button that you hit for SE and balanced. I tried the SE when the button was set to balanced and got nothing out of the SE


----------



## DigitalFreak

Warren, you're having a good laugh throwing me to the lions aren't you??


----------



## warrenpchi

digitalfreak said:


> Warren, you're having a good laugh throwing me to the lions aren't you??


 
  
 You have no idea!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  BRB, Ima Facebook this.


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> You have no idea!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 WARRENNNN!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DigitalFreak

Before anyone asks, the fit and finish of the Liquid Carbon is top notch. I like the look and wouldn't do anything to change the form factor. Its a solid build and doesn't look cheap nor rushed


----------



## goldendarko

Is this a Beta unit your testing for Cavalli? Don't think I got the back story on how you got one so soon


----------



## jexby

digitalfreak said:


> great, now I have to nail my windows and doors shut to keep the local head-fi crew out


 
  
 knock knock knocking at your doors, and windows!  bolt the locks.




  
 btw, what amps are you comparing to Liquid Carbon?  ALO and Garage 1217 units or ?
 looking for a frame of reference as I've heard Solstice for 2 weeks and liked it, but wouldn't call it a higher-end desktop amp.....
 a LC vs. Lyr2 or Mjolnir is what I'm dying to know...


----------



## warrenpchi

digitalfreak said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > You have no idea!
> ...


 
  

  
 MWAHAHAHAHA!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's what you get for getting it before me BIOTCH!
  


goldendarko said:


> Is this a Beta unit your testing for Cavalli? Don't think I got the back story on how you got one so soon


 
  
 It's for a Headphone.Guru review I believe?


----------



## money4me247

jexby said:


> knock knock knocking at your doors, and windows!  bolt the locks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1 on lyr 2 comparison. similar price range and both well-respected brands here.


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> Is this a Beta unit your testing for Cavalli? Don't think I got the back story on how you got one so soon


 
 I write reviews for for Headphone Guru darko. You're correct in your assumption, the unit i have is one of the Beta units Dr Cavalli has been using to show off at shows.
  


jexby said:


> knock knock knocking at your doors, and windows!  bolt the locks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've heard most of Schiits stuff and the Carbon is a different voicing then what yr used to with Schiit gear such as the Lyr and Mjolnir. These impression are really really very young so please don't hold me to them. First of all, the Carbon more neutral and has more finess when compared to the Schiit stuff. The Schiit gear, going from memory, is more brighter.
  
 The amps I'll be comparing it to are the Ember, the Vali, and the Play It By Ear. I have other amps but I'm not gonna bother. The Carbon is that far ahead of the other stuff I own and I'm not gonna bother.


----------



## jexby

digitalfreak said:


> The amps I'll be comparing it to are the Ember, the Vali, and the Play It By Ear. I have other amps but I'm not gonna bother. The Carbon is that far ahead of the other stuff I own and I'm not gonna bother.


 
  
 understood, and glad you said that instead of any of us.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 had the Vali for myself for awhile with HD600 and HE-500, so we will sit back and await your discoveries in Liquid Carbon....
 enjoy!


----------



## DigitalFreak

jexby said:


> understood, and glad you said that instead of any of us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks jexby, I'm having a great time right now with my Paradox.


----------



## DigitalFreak

By the way guys, when you all get your amps I highly suggest you listen to Edie And The New Bohemians. What I Am is sounding quite spectacular on this amp


----------



## goldendarko

You lucky dog you, must be nice to be a reviewer and get all the cool stuff before everyone else! I'll be especially interested in comparisons with the Schiit gear as the Rag is my primary amp, though I don't find it to be bright since I use Audeze's with it mainly. Would be interested in hearing the Audeze/Carbon pairing too, if you have a pair laying around


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> You lucky dog you, must be nice to be a reviewer and get all the cool stuff before everyone else! I'll be especially interested in comparisons with the Schiit gear as the Rag is my primary amp, though I don't find it to be bright since I use Audeze's with it mainly. Would be interested in hearing the Audeze/Carbon pairing too, if you have a pair laying around


 
 Never heard the Rag and if you own it I'm rather jealous of you, I've heard nothing but good things about that amp. The only Audeze I have right now is the EL-8 closed back and its gonna be shipped out in the next couple of days. Don't worry, I have some time penned in with the Carbon before I send it out.


----------



## goldendarko

Cool, any impressions are much appreciated!


----------



## elwappo99

warrenpchi said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > warrenpchi said:
> ...


 
  
 Wait, we're all on facebook now?


----------



## jexby

digitalfreak said:


> By the way guys, when you all get your amps I highly suggest you listen to Edie And The New Bohemians. What I Am is sounding quite spectacular on this amp


 
  
 sorry, never.
 i'd rather have bette midler or barbra streisand carve out my liver with a fork.
 or not.


----------



## DigitalFreak

jexby said:


> sorry, never.
> i'd rather have bette midler or barbra streisand carve out my liver with a fork.
> or not.


 
 Billie Holiday sounds pretty awesome too


----------



## jexby

elwappo99 said:


> Wait, we're all on facebook now?


 
  
 ne-vah.


----------



## prot

gr8soundz said:


> Haven't been to a meet yet and never met Dr. Alex but anyone who would bother to create a version of his product for 1/5th the price of EVERYTHING else he sells is not a bad guy.




Did it ever occur to you that the EverythingElse might just be 5x overpriced !?


----------



## joeexp

prot said:


> Did it ever occur to you that the EverythingElse might just be 5x overpriced !?


 
  
 Don't you dare - rain on our parade!


----------



## prot

joeexp said:


> Don't you dare - rain on our parade!




It was only a logically valid assumption ... same as good as the OP's


----------



## Pirakaphile

Seems I missed the pesterfest! Don't worry, I'm not a cancerous badger like ol' man @warrenpchi 
Seems like you're just havin' fun with the amp though! Just what it's supposed to do!


----------



## gr8soundz

prot said:


> Did it ever occur to you that the EverythingElse might just be 5x overpriced !?


 
  
 No.


----------



## joeexp

prot said:


> It was only a logically valid assumption ... same as good as the OP's


 

 Logical assumption based on what?


----------



## money4me247

joeexp said:


> Logical assumption based on what?


 
 well, can be reasonable assumption if you think about the profit margins & mark-ups in this industry. dunno exactly what percentage would be accurate though. the underlying premise makes sense though.


----------



## AustinValentine

digitalfreak said:


> Thanks jexby, I'm having a great time right now with my Paradox.


 
  
 Is your Paradox SE or Balanced? I picked up the LC for my Paradox too, so these impressions will be extra helpful!


----------



## joeexp

money4me247 said:


> well, can be reasonable assumption if you think about the profit margins & mark-ups in this industry. dunno exactly what percentage would be accurate though. the underlying premise makes sense though.



Aren't you forgetting the most important factor? - sound quality!!

I.can buy 600 bucks worth of components - but would the combination of them sound good??

Knowledge should count for something IMHO


----------



## zerodeefex

austinvalentine said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks jexby, I'm having a great time right now with my Paradox.
> ...


 
  
 WHAAA? I picked up the LC for my Slants, hah.


----------



## DreamKing

Honestly, I am curious to know how this fares against the competition, particularly the Lyr 2. I'm guessing the price is based on it being transportable and having a balanced input/output so clearly not targeted to me since I only care about the single-ended sound but the comparisons would be nice. Especially since this is just a limited price only so it will only go up in price and I have no idea how it performs against the competition. I think in the end, this isn't the right choice for me as I'm just seeking headroom for the future.


----------



## money4me247

joeexp said:


> Aren't you forgetting the most important factor? - sound quality!!


 
 I don't think there is really any linear correlation between price and sound quality. imo. more expensive gear doesn't always sound better.


----------



## money4me247

dreamking said:


> Honestly, I am curious to know how this fares against the competition, particularly the Lyr 2. I'm guessing the price is based on it being transportable and having a balanced input/output so clearly not targeted to me since I only care about the single-ended sound but the comparisons would be nice. Especially since this is just a limited price only so it will only go up in price and I have no idea how it performs against the competition.


 
 I have a lyr 2, so I can do comparisons for you... in like 4+ months though hahaha


----------



## DreamKing

money4me247 said:


> I have a lyr 2, so I can do comparisons for you... in like 4+ months though hahaha


 
  
 I will most probably have a lyr 2 by then lmao. Good thing they're unbelievably easy to resell if necessary. It's unbelievable how little competition there is at this price point though, at least in the most popular products here. Compared to the competition in the close to $1k and over that price point. Amps just mostly seem to be either $200 / less or in the 1k+ ballpark.


----------



## aamefford

money4me247 said:


> I have a lyr 2, so I can do comparisons for you... in like 4+ months though hahaha



Did you jump on board?


----------



## Serenitty

dreamking said:


> I will most probably have a lyr 2 by then lmao. Good thing they're unbelievably easy to resell if necessary, partly thanks to the warranty. It's unbelievable how little competition there is at this price point though, at least in the most popular products here. Compared to the competition in the close to $1k and over that price point. Amps just mostly seem to be either $200 / less or in the 1k+ ballpark.


 

 That Warranty isn't transferable.  I emailed Jason a couple of years ago about a Bifrost and Valhalla I had bought used and the warranty is for the original purchaser only.
  
 It's possible they changed that policy since then, this was about 2 years ago.


----------



## mscott58

money4me247 said:


> well, can be reasonable assumption if you think about the profit margins & mark-ups in this industry. dunno exactly what percentage would be accurate though. the underlying premise makes sense though.


 
 Taking into account R&D and marketing time and expense I'm guessing the net profit isn't nearly what one would think, even if the markup is substantially more than the COGS, especially for low volume/high engineered products like Dr. Alex's amps. And I do hope that he makes a good profit - he's earned it IMO.
  
 And I had to laugh a little bit given your screen-name!


----------



## money4me247

aamefford said:


> Did you jump on board?


 
 heh!! yup. figured why not? sure there will be a lot of other interested people if I end up not liking it. don't mind giving other head-fiers a good discount


----------



## DreamKing

serenitty said:


> That Warranty isn't transferable.  I emailed Jason a couple of years ago about a Bifrost and Valhalla I had bought used and the warranty is for the original purchaser only.
> 
> It's possible they changed that policy since then, this was about 2 years ago.


 
  
 That's why I never mention I bought it from someone or I just use the same name as the original purchaser for the warranty but with my current address and it's worked every time so far. I don't know how deep Schiit goes into this (that sounded ...different then I intended), but in any case I've experienced I've never had a problem. Worst case scenario, it's out of warranty and you pay for the service depending on the amount vs price of the product- I don't know if Schiit does this though.


----------



## joeexp

money4me247 said:


> I don't think there is really any linear correlation between price and sound quality. imo. more expensive gear doesn't always sound better.


 
  
 The Proof is in the pudding…. Thus far nobody has heard the finished product. Well I guess we'll have to wait 4 months until we can make a judgement if the LC is worth the hard-earned 600 bucks.
 And yes you are right the is no linear correlation between price and sound quality. Life would be so much easier if that would be the case  - LOL


----------



## Serenitty

dreamking said:


> That's why I never mention I bought it from someone and it's worked every time so far. I don't know how deep Schiit goes into this (that sounded ...different then I intended), but in any case I've experienced I've never had a problem. Worst case scenario, it's out of warranty and you pay for the service depending on the amount vs price of the product- I don't know if Schiit does this though.


 
  
 Not that it matters if you bought it from someone or bought it new, once you sell it, there's no warranty anymore.  And since Schitt has records of who bought what, I can't imagine trying to fake that you bought it new would work.  Unless that's what you were saying in your first two sentences, I can't tell if you are saying you had repairs made or you were selling equipment.
  
 Not that I had any issues with my Bifrost or Valhalla while I had them, I just wanted to know back when I was looking to buy.


----------



## DPogster

If anyone is interested in schiit Yggy to use with Carbon it just went live .


----------



## aqsw

dpogster said:


> If anyone is interested in schiit Yggy to use with Carbon it just went live
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 $2299.00   YUK


----------



## DigitalFreak

joeexp said:


> The Proof is in the pudding…. Thus far nobody has heard the finished product. Well I guess we'll have to wait 4 months until we can make a judgement if the LC is worth the hard-earned 600 bucks.
> And yes you are right the is no linear correlation between price and sound quality. Life would be so much easier if that would be the case  - LOL


 
 Speak for yourself brother, I'm listen to the amp now an its definitely worth the 600 bones
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Huge +1 that a bigger price tag doesn't equate to equipment sounding better


----------



## aamefford

The little LC will kinda look like a blemish sitting on top of the plus sized Yggdrasil, won't it?  Oh, and for the record, I just jumped on the train here.....


----------



## goldendarko

aamefford said:


> The little LC will kinda look like a blemish sitting on top of the plus sized Yggdrasil, won't it?  Oh, and for the record, I just jumped on the train here.....


Order number or it didn't happen


----------



## DigitalFreak

austinvalentine said:


> Is your Paradox SE or Balanced? I picked up the LC for my Paradox too, so these impressions will be extra helpful!


 
 I'm listening to it SE. I'm working on finding a balanced cable for it and hopefully I can get it in before I have to return this amp
 The huge strength of the LC with the Paradox is its not imparting any coloration whatsoever. I'm getting some really nice spacial cues giving me an awesome crisp and clean staging effect with it too. 
 Generally speaking, staging on the LC is very impressive.


----------



## DPogster

aamefford said:


> The little LC will kinda look like a blemish sitting on top of the plus sized Yggdrasil, won't it?  Oh, and for the record, I just jumped on the train here.....




Feel ya there but it's a statement dac for schiit and I thought maybe some here would be interested in it. Agree that Yggy is definitely for desktop use and I myself am still on the lookout for a good transportable dac to matchup with the carbon for those times during which I will be on the move.


----------



## aamefford

dpogster said:


> Feel ya there but it's a statement dac for schiit and I thought maybe some here would be interested in it. Agree that Yggy is definitely for desktop use and I myself am still on the lookout for a good transportable dac to matchup with the carbon for those times during which I will be on the move.


 

 I think we are in agreement then.  If I was willing to spend for a Yggy, I'd use it with the LC when I was at home.  For now, same search for me.  I've seen one of the ifi components in the same photo as the LC, and it looked OK.  I don't know anything about them, though.  I'd like to stay away from the ESS 9018, my HA-1 has one, and I'd like a more relaxed presentation, though I can barely hear the difference between decent, similar priced dacs - or at least between HA-1 and Bifrost Uber.  The differences were darned slight in that comparison for me.  Looking forward to the Liquid Carbon.  Not so much the 4 month wait.


----------



## Pirakaphile

aamefford said:


> I think we are in agreement then.  If I was willing to spend for a Yggy, I'd use it with the LC when I was at home.  For now, same search for me.  I've seen one of the ifi components in the same photo as the LC, and it looked OK.  I don't know anything about them, though.  I'd like to stay away from the ESS 9018, my HA-1 has one, and I'd like a more relaxed presentation, though I can barely hear the difference between decent, similar priced dacs - or at least between HA-1 and Bifrost Uber.  The differences were darned slight in that comparison for me.  Looking forward to the Liquid Carbon.  Not so much the 4 month wait.


 
 The difference between different types of budget audiophiles is the small, but very distinct difference; willing, or able.  Ideally all our problems should be the willing option! 
  
 I'd love to see the Yggy at a meet someday with just a single little amp on top, like Carbon or a Magni. It'd be adorable, and interesting to see how well amps could scale.


----------



## Poimandres

You may want to checkout the centrance dacmini CX. MD right now for 389.


----------



## x RELIC x

Has anyone who has heard the LC have any thoughts compared to the CL Duet? I realize the Duet is fully portable and the LC is not but curious about overal refinement and sound signature comparisons. Also, any thoughts on the noise floor of the LC with 17 Ohm 117db@1mW sensitive IEM?

I know these questions are a shot in the dark as not to many people have heard the LC, but thought I'd give it a (premature?) ask.


----------



## money4me247

poimandres said:


> You may want to checkout the centrance dacmini CX. MD right now for 389.


 
 good deal for an all-in one amp/dac, but it is not balanced though, if that is important to you.


----------



## Poimandres

With the LC it really shouldn't matter if I am interpreting correctly, does it not split and balances the single ended signal internally?


----------



## joeexp

digitalfreak said:


> Speak for yourself brother, I'm listen to the amp now an its definitely worth the 600 bones
> 
> Huge +1 that a bigger price tag doesn't equate to equipment sounding better




You are listening to a prototype - the final product might vary. There is usually a lot of tweaking before the final sign off.


----------



## Frank I

Gkad that Alex new amplfieir is getting lot of steam. The  amp blew me away and it is a baby Liquid Gold


----------



## DigitalFreak

joeexp said:


> You are listening to a prototype - the final product might vary. There is usually a lot of tweaking before the final sign off


 
 If he does make it sound better then the more power to him


----------



## mscott58

digitalfreak said:


> If he does make it sound better then the more power to him


 
 Seriously. Don't know many people that tweak prototypes to make the production unit sound worse!


----------



## joeexp

mscott58 said:


> Seriously. Don't know many people that tweak prototypes to make the production unit sound worse!


 

 I am hoping that the Final LC will sound a even bit better then the prototype LC! Fingers crossed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 It certainly will look better…


----------



## Pirakaphile

x relic x said:


> Has anyone who has heard the LC have any thoughts compared to the CL Duet? I realize the Duet is fully portable and the LC is not but curious about overal refinement and sound signature comparisons. Also, any thoughts on the noise floor of the LC with 17 Ohm 117db@1mW sensitive IEM?
> 
> I know these questions are a shot in the dark as not to many people have heard the LC, but thought I'd give it a (premature?) ask.



Quiet is the name of the game with this amp. Jude says something in his video intro about how even his most sensitive IEMs are quiet with the thing.


----------



## joeexp

Quick question: Do we have any pictures of the inside of the LC? Jude's video shows some images of a PCB board but it is not explained which is which ….


----------



## ejong7

joeexp said:


> Quick question: Do we have any pictures of the inside of the LC? Jude's video shows some images of a PCB board but it is not explained which is which ….


 

 Who wants Jude to make a whole video about the LC alone? All in favor say AYE


----------



## mscott58

ejong7 said:


> Who wants Jude to make a whole video about the LC alone? All in favor say AYE




Oh yeah!


----------



## audiofrk

For those that are looking for a DAC thats transportable i've heard good things bout the starting nos dac.

I̶t̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶ ̶P̶h̶i̶l̶l̶i̶p̶s̶ ̶r̶2̶r̶ ̶D̶A̶C̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶p̶a̶s̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶c̶r̶e̶t̶e̶ ̶I̶/̶v̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶g̶e̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶r̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶f̶i̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶y̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶b̶a̶b̶y̶ ̶m̶e̶t̶r̶u̶m̶ ̶o̶c̶t̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶e̶d̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶u̶y̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶d̶e̶c̶i̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶D̶A̶C̶.̶ On that note...

I really think that people should consider the gungnir, if for nothing else it's future potential. I was told by the man him self that the yggy tech will reach the lower price options and well I'm hopeful that it would be sooner rather than later

edit: got caught up in the thread I retract my statement about the dac too many people are saying its super colored unless you use a lot of reclockers and usb cleaners (then whats the point right?). Read thread if your a fan of tubes but I cannot recommend for everyone.


----------



## Pirakaphile

audiofrk said:


> For those that are looking for a DAC thats transportable i've heard good things bout the starting nos dac.
> 
> Its basically a Phillips r2r DAC with a passive discrete I/v stage. There's a thread here on head fi people say it's like a baby metrum octave and its battery powered. I was about to buy it but decided to save up for a different DAC. On that note...
> 
> I really think that people should consider the gungnir, if for nothing else it's future potential. I was told by the man him self that the yggy tech will reach the lower price options and well I'm hopeful that it would be sooner rather than later


 
 Exactly what I was thinking of. I'll be getting the Gungnir in a few years and it's probably going to be the last DAC I ever buy.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Well I'm using the proto with my CLAS-db. There's better DACs on the market of coarse but in my opinion its a pretty nice pairing
 I might just leave the new DAC on the back burner for a few months.
 By the way, while other amps of mine are hiss prone the Carbon isn't. I don't think a power conditioner is warranted if you're worried about hiss on your system


----------



## vhsownsbeta

digitalfreak said:


> Well I'm using the proto with my CLAS-db. There's better DACs on the market of coarse but in my opinion its a pretty nice pairing
> I might just leave the new DAC on the back burner for a few months.
> By the way, while other amps of mine are hiss prone the Carbon isn't. I don't think a power conditioner is warranted if you're worried about hiss on your system




Do you have any sensitive IEMs you can try with the CL to assess noise floor? Jude said that the CL was 'very quiet' in this situation, whereas other people have reported hiss...


----------



## DigitalFreak

vhsownsbeta said:


> Do you have any sensitive IEMs you can try with the CL to assess noise floor? Jude said that the CL was 'very quiet' in this situation, whereas other people have reported hiss...


 
 Its late right now and I'm about to crash for the night. Tomorrow night i'll plug in my UERM and report back to the thread my findings.


----------



## DatGuy

well, just to nitpick here but very quiet isn't the same as silent. Perhaps Jude means its not very noticeable even on the most sensitive of iems. Also other people who have reported hiss haven't actually commented on how much it actually is. Maybe it is just very little, but nonetheless present on certain iems


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> Well I'm using the proto with my CLAS-db. There's better DACs on the market of coarse but in my opinion its a pretty nice pairing
> I might just leave the new DAC on the back burner for a few months.
> By the way, while other amps of mine are hiss prone the Carbon isn't. I don't think a power conditioner is warranted if you're worried about hiss on your system


 
  
 I plan on using this same combo.  What cable are you using to interconnect?


----------



## GCTD

buttuglyjeff said:


> I plan on using this same combo.  What cable are you using to interconnect?


 
  
 I've read that for audio-line level it won't be as crucial as it is when you're connecting to a speaker or headphone (link), just go for the one with the most electro-magnetic and RFI noise protection. I personally went for Kopul Premier Quad Pro 5000, it's build material is of good quality but also affordable. They said power conditioner is also unnecessary for the amp, but maybe your DAC will benefit from it instead. Dan said it himself in Currawong's video (4:11) that it's the headphone connection that's gonna be affected the most is since ETHER is a low impedance headphone it benefits, or rather changes it's soundsignature slightly, from certain guages.


----------



## doctorjazz

As one waiting for an LH lab Vi Tube Ultimate (or whatever they wind up calling it), and a Wave, these are both supposed to be balanced out DAC's (with other functionality, should both have headphone amps themselves), I'm fine living with my Pono in the interim. The interesting thing will be to see who gets me product first LH labs (known for production delays, but they are supposed to be ready in 2-3 months with some of this), or Cavelli...THE RACE IS ON!!


----------



## DigitalFreak

buttuglyjeff said:


> I plan on using this same combo.  What cable are you using to interconnect?




Monster MusicConnect Portable Audio Player to Stereo Cable (1/8 Inch stereo mini plug to RCAs) 

It's available on Amazon


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

non-balanced


digitalfreak said:


> Monster MusicConnect Portable Audio Player to Stereo Cable (1/8 Inch stereo mini plug to RCAs)
> 
> It's available on Amazon


 
  
 non-balanced, got it, thanks....


----------



## vhsownsbeta

doctorjazz said:


> As one waiting for an LH lab Vi Tube Ultimate (or whatever they wind up calling it), and a Wave, these are both supposed to be balanced out DAC's (with other functionality, should both have headphone amps themselves), I'm fine living with my Pono in the interim. The interesting thing will be to see who gets me product first LH labs (known for production delays, but they are supposed to be ready in 2-3 months with some of this), or Cavelli...THE RACE IS ON!!




I'm waiting for a Vi DAC Tube Infinity AQ2M BO Power Cap Edition. The Carbon will arrive first, no question.


----------



## Stillhart

I find the fact that anyone still pre-orders anything from LHLabs infinitely amusing.  They've emphatically proven that they can't hit a ship date and that their "MSRP" is complete hogwash (hello, regular Amazon coupons/sales and Massdrop), so there's not really any incentive to give them money a few years in advance.  Most folks would be better served throwing that money into a CD and making a few % interest of the same time frame, and then just buying it from someone who put the money down and then bought something else in the interim.
  
 I'm willing to take a chance on the Cavalli for two reasons:  1 - it's a limited run so there won't be an opportunity to buy it later if I don't now, and 2 - Most companies don't miss ship dates nearly as egregiously as LHLabs, so I would have to be VERY pessimistic to expect that from anyone else.
  
 So yeah, I expect the Liquid Carbon to be here well before most folks get their LHLabs DAC's that aren't already shipping (i.e. GO2, Wave, Vi, etc).


----------



## ejong7

stillhart said:


> I find the fact that anyone still pre-orders anything from LHLabs infinitely amusing.  They've emphatically proven that they can't hit a ship date and that their "MSRP" is complete hogwash (hello, regular Amazon coupons/sales and Massdrop), so there's not really any incentive to give them money a few years in advance.  Most folks would be better served throwing that money into a CD and making a few % interest of the same time frame, and then just buying it from someone who put the money down and then bought something else in the interim.
> 
> I'm willing to take a chance on the Cavalli for two reasons:  1 - it's a limited run so there won't be an opportunity to buy it later if I don't now, and 2 - Most companies don't miss ship dates nearly as egregiously as LHLabs, so I would have to be VERY pessimistic to expect that from anyone else.
> 
> So yeah, I expect the Liquid Carbon to be here well before most folks get their LHLabs DAC's that aren't already shipping (i.e. GO2, Wave, Vi, etc).


 

 The wait I can handle, I just dislike how they handle certain other situations. Notice how the Verb IEM thread is basically cleared of LH Labs personnel recently while they still pop up in the Pulse/GO threads (well at least Casey does). And that horrible support ticket system LOL.
  
 But anyways let's get back on the Liquid Carbon thread before this goes off topic so hard they shut it down. Has anybody tried *OTHER* headphones with the LC? By *OTHER* I mean the likes of maybe the Fostex TH900, AKG K812 or the Grado PS1000e? Basically anything that's not Ether, Alpha Dogs/Primes, LCDs and HD800s. Just interested to see those who used them with the headphones less talked about in this thread.
  
 And also, anybody know a reliable source in the UK I can source some Volex cords?


----------



## doctorjazz

stillhart said:


> I find the fact that anyone still pre-orders anything from LHLabs infinitely amusing.  They've emphatically proven that they can't hit a ship date and that their "MSRP" is complete hogwash (hello, regular Amazon coupons/sales and Massdrop), so there's not really any incentive to give them money a few years in advance.  Most folks would be better served throwing that money into a CD and making a few % interest of the same time frame, and then just buying it from someone who put the money down and then bought something else in the interim.
> 
> I'm willing to take a chance on the Cavalli for two reasons:  1 - it's a limited run so there won't be an opportunity to buy it later if I don't now, and 2 - Most companies don't miss ship dates nearly as egregiously as LHLabs, so I would have to be VERY pessimistic to expect that from anyone else.
> 
> So yeah, I expect the Liquid Carbon to be here well before most folks get their LHLabs DAC's that aren't already shipping (i.e. GO2, Wave, Vi, etc).




Well, the "still" part is questionable, most of us ordered a long time ago, then, once being in for some model or other, could (and often did) decide to go up the upgrade path. I have stayed away from the most recent offers (headphone amps, for instance), but, once you're in, there's no out, just have to wait until they get it ready. Joys of crowdfunding, I suppose. On the positive, I did get the Geek Out Special Edition (and the GO 1K before that), that GO SE is one of the best sounding things I have heard! I expect the rest of the upgraded other units, when they ship, to also sound great.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Well, the "still" part is questionable, most of us ordered a long time ago, then, once being in for some model or other, could (and often did) decide to go up the upgrade path. I have stayed away from the most recent offers (headphone amps, for instance), but, once you're in, there's no out, just have to wait until they get it ready. Joys of crowdfunding, I suppose. On the positive, I did get the Geek Out Special Edition (and the GO 1K before that), that GO SE is one of the best sounding things I have heard! I expect the rest of the upgraded other units, when they ship, to also sound great.


 
  
 Yes, to be fair their stuff does sound good.  For the street price (not the MSRP), they're a decent buy once you can get your hands on them.  I borrowed a friends GO SE and learned what a low noise floor sounds like.  It was pretty impressive for such a little unit.  Something like that would make a great DAC for the LC if you're not concerned with having an SE connection and you don't mind a more... aggressively tuned Sabre DAC.  (I prefer a more laid back Sabre implementation like on my NFB-28 or the Aurender Flow.)


----------



## DigitalFreak

ejong7 said:


> The wait I can handle, I just dislike how they handle certain other situations. Notice how the Verb IEM thread is basically cleared of LH Labs personnel recently while they still pop up in the Pulse/GO threads (well at least Casey does). And that horrible support ticket system LOL.
> 
> But anyways let's get back on the Liquid Carbon thread before this goes off topic so hard they shut it down. Has anybody tried *OTHER* headphones with the LC? By *OTHER* I mean the likes of maybe the Fostex TH900, AKG K812 or the Grado PS1000e? Basically anything that's not Ether, Alpha Dogs/Primes, LCDs and HD800s. Just interested to see those who used them with the headphones less talked about in this thread.
> 
> And also, anybody know a reliable source in the UK I can source some Volex cords?




I've been
Listening with primarily the T50rp Paradox and the K712. If you want I can probably whip something up within a few days. What exactly would you like to know?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> I've been
> Listening with primarily the T50rp Paradox and the K712. If you want I can probably whip something up within a few days. What exactly would you like to know?


 
  
  
 I'd like to know a "before and after" experience.  What direction have those headphones gone since you started using the LC?  Has the sound "tightened up"?


----------



## ejong7

digitalfreak said:


> I've been
> Listening with primarily the T50rp Paradox and the K712. If you want I can probably whip something up within a few days. What exactly would you like to know?


 
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> I'd like to know a "before and after" experience.  What direction have those headphones gone since you started using the LC?  Has the sound "tightened up"?


 

 Yes kinda like that. I want to know how the LC's react to different headphones.


----------



## xuan87

digitalfreak said:


> I've been
> Listening with primarily the T50rp Paradox and the K712. If you want I can probably whip something up within a few days. What exactly would you like to know?


 
  
 Nice, definitely interested in your review with the K712. I plan to use the LC with my K7XX for now and wonder how much more potential the LC can bring out of the K7XX, which already sounds wonderful from my O2+ODAC.
  
 And I've already modified my K7XX to be balanced!


----------



## DigitalFreak

xuan87 said:


> Nice, definitely interested in your review with the K712. I plan to use the LC with my K7XX for now and wonder how much more potential the LC can bring out of the K7XX, which already sounds wonderful from my O2+ODAC.
> 
> And I've already modified my K7XX to be balanced!


 
 If you don't mind me asking where did you get it balanced and how much did it cost you? I've been thinking of doing that myself.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Ok guys I have my UERM plugged into the LC. I have the gain set on low of coarse and the background is dead silent. If I crank and bury the volume pot with no music playing all the way though I will hear a very light hum but background is dead silent when I have the volume pot set at my comfortable listening volume which is between 12 and 1 o clock. So if you're a CIEM guy the good news is the LC plays nice with customs.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys I have my UERM plugged into the LC. I have the gain set on low of coarse and the background is dead silent. If I crank and bury the volume pot with no music playing all the way though I will hear a very light hum but background is dead silent when I have the volume pot set at my comfortable listening volume which is between 12 and 1 o clock. So if you're a CIEM guy the good news is the LC plays nice with customs.




Awesome news! I presume that is on SE output? Thanks.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys I have my UERM plugged into the LC. I have the gain set on low of coarse and the background is dead silent. If I crank and bury the volume pot with no music playing all the way though I will hear a very light hum but background is dead silent when I have the volume pot set at my comfortable listening volume which is between 12 and 1 o clock. So if you're a CIEM guy the good news is the LC plays nice with customs.




Great to know! 

Now the obvious question......... How does the UERM sound with the LC? Warmth, clarity?


----------



## xuan87

digitalfreak said:


> If you don't mind me asking where did you get it balanced and how much did it cost you? I've been thinking of doing that myself.


 
  
 I know of a few online places which can do that for you, but I did the mod myself. It's a pretty easy mod, but the hardest part by far is the removal of the old plug which is glued in tight. Acetone might help in dissolving the glue, but I didn't have any on me, so I kinda mangled that component.
  
 However, soundwise, it's perfect.


----------



## Stillhart

xuan87 said:


> I know of a few online places which can do that for you, but I did the mod myself. It's a pretty easy mod, but the hardest part by far is the removal of the old plug which is glued in tight. Acetone might help in dissolving the glue, but I didn't have any on me, so I kinda mangled that component.
> 
> However, soundwise, it's perfect.


 
  
 Did you put a jack in each cup?  My understanding is that they use the spring metal band to pass the signal across, which is maybe less than optimal.  The proper way to make it balanced would be to open both cups and insert new jacks into both, etc.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> xuan87 said:
> 
> 
> > I know of a few online places which can do that for you, but I did the mod myself. It's a pretty easy mod, but the hardest part by far is the removal of the old plug which is glued in tight. Acetone might help in dissolving the glue, but I didn't have any on me, so I kinda mangled that component.
> ...


 
  
 You are correct. The two big bars on top are the way the signal passes to the other side. 
  
 Unfortunately, the few times I've see what you're mentioning the cups end up looking really silly. The left one has a big xlr sticking down, and both sides have a big gash in the side of the cup.


----------



## xuan87

elwappo99 said:


> You are correct. The two big bars on top are the way the signal passes to the other side.
> 
> Unfortunately, the few times I've see what you're mentioning the cups end up looking really silly. The left one has a big xlr sticking down, and both sides have a big gash in the side of the cup.


 
  


elwappo99 said:


> You are correct. The two big bars on top are the way the signal passes to the other side.
> 
> Unfortunately, the few times I've see what you're mentioning the cups end up looking really silly. The left one has a big xlr sticking down, and both sides have a big gash in the side of the cup.


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> Did you put a jack in each cup?  My understanding is that they use the spring metal band to pass the signal across, which is maybe less than optimal.  The proper way to make it balanced would be to open both cups and insert new jacks into both, etc.


 
  
 Nope, I didn't do that. This is the mod that I did: K701 Mod


----------



## DigitalFreak

vhsownsbeta said:


> Awesome news! I presume that is on SE output? Thanks.


 
  
 Yep, standard issue UERM cable with a SE plug


x relic x said:


> Great to know!
> 
> Now the obvious question......... How does the UERM sound with the LC? Warmth, clarity?


 
 It sounds clear and very neutral. Bass extension has improved and the highs are crisp and smooth. Very nice detailing throughout all frequencies thus far


----------



## Stillhart

xuan87 said:


> Nope, I didn't do that. This is the mod that I did: K701 Mod


 
  
 All those missing pictures make it pretty much impossible to follow.  Oh well.  Thanks tho!


----------



## maricius

If anyone's curious of the iFi Micro iDSD and the Cavalli Liquid Carbon pairing, Mike Mercer has some impressions on them.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> If you don't mind me asking where did you get it balanced and how much did it cost you? I've been thinking of doing that myself.


 
  
 I'll recommend Brian at BTG Audio over and over again.  He recabled my TH600s and DT1350s to balanced and did a great job with both...


----------



## BRCMRGN

I started a related thread in the "Dedicated Source Components" Forum:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
  
 Your insights will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## montanari

i will go trought this topic during the w/e!
 meanwhile
 how do you think guys it will work with the lcd3F feeded by the hugo?
 the size is perfect for my use
 also what about the voltage?
 i will use overseas with 230v


----------



## thomascrown

montanari said:


> i will go trought this topic during the w/e!
> meanwhile
> how do you think guys it will work with the lcd3F feeded by the hugo?
> the size is perfect for my use
> ...


 
 Dr. Cavalli confirmed that the lc has a universal power supply, so you can use it everywhere you want, still you need to buy the right cable.


----------



## montanari

good to know!
 thank you very much!
 now i have to figure out the other stuff
 ciaoo


----------



## Stillhart

montanari said:


> good to know!
> thank you very much!
> now i have to figure out the other stuff
> ciaoo


 
  
 Well it was demoed with the Chord Hugo at Canjam and I don't know anyone who heard that setup who wasn't raving about it.  Including myself.  I heard it with the Ether, which is similar to the LCD-3f IMHO, and it sounded fantastic, so I'm guessing your setup will be top notch.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, a little while back some of you were asking about IEMs and noise.
  
 Since CanJam I've been working on reducing the noise from the SE jack. I'm pretty confident now that the production units will have (on average) about 10db lower noise out of this jack than the proto. Nothing was changed in the audio circuits, this was just a tweak inside the SMPS.
  
 I'm happy about this....


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> Hey gents, a little while back some of you were asking about IEMs and noise.
> 
> Since CanJam I've been working on reducing the noise from the SE jack. I'm pretty confident now that the production units will have (on average) about 10db lower noise out of this jack than the proto. Nothing was changed in the audio circuits, this was just a tweak inside the SMPS.
> 
> I'm happy about this....




I think a lot of us are happy about this news too, thanks!


----------



## bearFNF

Thanks for the update. That kind of reduction should be more than enough to take care of what I heard at CanJam.


----------



## gr8soundz

Definitely good news for those of us sticking with SE output rather than upgrading to a balanced dac.


----------



## DigitalFreak

gr8soundz said:


> Definitely good news for those of us sticking with SE output rather than upgrading to a balanced dac.


 
 Considering all the amps I'm comparing the LC to are SE trust me when I say results from using its SE isn't to shabby at all.


----------



## runeight

On another note, several of you have asked Arli about the Carbon he's reviewing for Headphone Guru.
  
 Just so you all will know, I sent Arli a few headphones (although I kind of surprised him with the care package sent separate from the amp). I sent the headphones for a couple of reasons.
  
 1. When we were chatting about his receiving the amp and whether it was working ok, I learned that Arli didn't have balanced headphones (although was working to resolve that on one pair, IIRC). I felt that, whether he eventually does or doesn't like the amp, or whatever the evaluation will be, it is best if it can be reviewed based on its full balanced performance. Then the chips fall where they fall. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 2. Many of you have asked how it would sound with various headphones. I don't have many of those headphones in question, but I did send LCDX and LCD3 thinking that these are fairly common headphones and would represent what many people own or have heard. I also sent a the Ethers because the Carbon and Ether were paired at CanJam and quite a few of you have referred to that pairing.
  
 Arli is, of course, free to use or not use any of those headphones for his review.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Surprised?!?!? More like my jaw dropped. You guys should have seen the size of the box when I grabbed it from the delivery guy.
  
 Ok guys, here's the great news, I now have balanced cables to use at my leisure, one of which is a WyWires. For all the Audeze fans out there, the audeze LCD X and LCS 3 will be discussed in my written review as well as thread impressions. For everyone whose heard how the Ether paired well with the LC, the Ether will also be discussed and included in the review. So, the headphones that will be used for review is an extensive list covering the whole map of different sound signatures. The list of these headphones are below.
  
 T50rp Paradox
 Audeze EL-8 closed back
 Audeze LCD X
 Audeze LCD 3
 AKG K712
 AKG K240 Sextette LP
 Hifiman He-400i
  
 Yes it's going to be a crazy long final impressions post as well as a long enough Headphone Guru article. I got my work cut out for me. If you guys have any questions please feel free to ask. Right now I've only unpacked the extra headphones but I will be starting to put them all through their paces later on tonight.


----------



## thomascrown

I'm guessing then that if Dr.Cavalli sent a pair of lcd3f together with his amp, he considers it a good pairing... Is it?


----------



## mscott58

thomascrown said:


> I'm guessing then that if Dr.Cavalli sent a pair of lcd3f together with his amp, he considers it a good pairing... Is it?


 
 It worked for me when I tried it with my LCD-3's at CanJam, although it was not a long session and wasn't in the best environment for testing open headphones.


----------



## runeight

thomascrown said:


> I'm guessing then that if Dr.Cavalli sent a pair of lcd3f together with his amp, he considers it a good pairing... Is it?


 
  
 I sent them because they are common to our community. I would have sent HD800 too if there had been room on the box.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

.....how to become a reviewer...... hmmmmmmm


----------



## runeight

Oh. They all have balanced cables.


----------



## Mr Rick

runeight said:


> I sent them because they are common to our community. I would have sent HD800 too if there had been room on the box.


 
 I'll be happy to test a LC with my balanced HD800s.


----------



## magiccabbage

digitalfreak said:


> Surprised?!?!? More like my jaw dropped. You guys should have seen the size of the box when I grabbed it from the delivery guy.
> 
> Ok guys, here's the great news, I now have balanced cables to use at my leisure, one of which is a WyWires. For all the Audeze fans out there, the audeze LCD X and LCS 3 will be discussed in my written review as well as thread impressions. For everyone whose heard how the Ether paired well with the LC, the Ether will also be discussed and included in the review. So, the headphones that will be used for review is an extensive list covering the whole map of different sound signatures. The list of these headphones are below.
> 
> ...


 
 wow - picks of the box?


----------



## aamefford

runeight said:


> I sent them because they are common to our community. I would have sent HD800 too if there had been room on the box.


 

 Perhaps the box was not properly sized?  I kid, of course, you sent a heck of a fleet of headphones.  Now I have some homework, though.  I've got to track down Arli's reviews, and get a feel for his tastes, so I can interpret his review properly.  Or not, as I've already committed to one, based all the recent impressions and reviews, on hearing some of your other amps, meeting you briefly at a show a year or two ago, and some friendly convincing from @warrenpchi behind the scenes.


----------



## DigitalFreak

buttuglyjeff said:


> .....how to become a reviewer...... hmmmmmmm


 
 Honestly, all I used to do was post impressions on MuppetFaces chat thread. I learned most about this hobby from the people on there. From there one day a fellow thread poster asked me to write reviews for his IEM site, Cymbacavum. From there I was asked to join Audio360 and eventually the Guru godfather, Frank, asked me to join Headphone Guru. It just kind of happened. If someone two years ago had said I would be writing reviews for a personal audio gear site and handling such high priced gear I would have laughed myself silly.


----------



## DigitalFreak

aamefford said:


> Perhaps the box was not properly sized?  I kid, of course, you sent a heck of a fleet of headphones.  Now I have some homework, though.  I've got to track down Arli's reviews, and get a feel for his tastes, so I can interpret his review properly.  Or not, as I've already committed to one, based all the recent impressions and reviews, on hearing some of your other amps, meeting you briefly at a show a year or two ago, and some friendly convincing from @warrenpchi behind the scenes.


 
 Well that's easy enough, check the links below. Ones for my YouTube channel and the others for headphone Guru. The Guru link is my writer profile and list all the reviews I've written for then. By the way guys, I recommend you all look through the Sources section of Guru. There's a ton of info about DACs there of various different price ranges. Generally speaking, I usually like stuff that's neutral but with a touch of warmth, you know, a touch of mid bass. Not always of coarse. For instance, the Audeze XC is heavily colored but its done well enough that I checked it off as an excellent headphone, one of the better ones in the closed back category. The Play It By Ear is also colored but even so I liked it enough to give it regular duty alongside my other amps. 
  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNPUsGU8cEm46vHsQfFv5xg
  
 http://headphone.guru/author/arlindo-borges/


----------



## DigitalFreak

Oh yeah, me and Warren are pretty similar in our tastes as far as sig is concerned. Sorry for the multiple posts guys


----------



## warrenpchi

aamefford said:


> I've already committed to one, based all the recent impressions and reviews, on hearing some of your other amps, meeting you briefly at a show a year or two ago, and some friendly convincing from @warrenpchi behind the scenes.


 
  
 Lol, you mean the part where this is the first amp I've bought in years, and that I'm letting go of my other rig?  Why that should give you any idea as to how I feel, I have no idea.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


digitalfreak said:


> Oh yeah, me and Warren are pretty similar in our tastes as far as sig is concerned. Sorry for the multiple posts guys


 
  
 Yup.


----------



## money4me247

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, you mean the part where this is the first amp I've bought in years, and that I'm letting go of my other rig?  Why that should give you any idea as to how I feel, I have no idea.




just curious if you dont mind answering, what amp are you replacing with the lc?


----------



## DigitalFreak

Ok guys, I've given the LCD-X and the Ether a good listen over the last hour. First off, I recommend going balanced. Although I don't have a SE cable to compare both headphones are sounding spectacular and the Carbon is showing a lot more control with these balanced headphones then it did with my SE headphones. Now, SE sounds pretty good n my opinion but what I've heard balanced just sounds more dynamic an not as forced as with SE.  No grain, no hazing of notes, and excellent clarity across the board. I'm really liking the Ether so far, its very tonally correct and although neutral it brings just enough warmth in to not sound dry. The highs are smooth and well defined and generally linear sounding. I'm really liking this pairing. I can understand why so many people at canjam were raving about this combo 
  
 If there's any questions feel free to ask away


----------



## achristilaw

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, I've given the LCD-X and the Ether a good listen over the last hour. First off, I recommend going balanced. Although I don't have a SE cable to compare both headphones are sounding spectacular and the Carbon is showing a lot more control with these balanced headphones then it did with my SE headphones. Now, SE sounds pretty good n my opinion but what I've heard balanced just sounds more dynamic an not as forced as with SE.  No grain, no hazing of notes, and excellent clarity across the board. I'm really liking the Ether so far, its very tonally correct and although neutral it brings just enough warmth in to not sound dry. The highs are smooth and well defined and generally linear sounding. I'm really liking this pairing. I can understand why so many people at canjam were raving about this combo
> 
> If there's any questions feel free to ask away


 

 I have a room for rent. Pack a bag and bring the LC w/ Ether...... leave the rest! I'll ice a keg and we'll hit
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it.


----------



## DigitalFreak

achristilaw said:


> I have a room for rent. Pack a bag and bring the LC w/ Ether...... leave the rest! I'll ice a keg and we'll hit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol, I miss Friday night keg parties


----------



## mangler

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, I've given the LCD-X and the Ether a good listen over the last hour. First off, I recommend going balanced. Although I don't have a SE cable to compare both headphones are sounding spectacular and the Carbon is showing a lot more control with these balanced headphones then it did with my SE headphones. Now, SE sounds pretty good n my opinion but what I've heard balanced just sounds more dynamic an not as forced as with SE.  No grain, no hazing of notes, and excellent clarity across the board. I'm really liking the Ether so far, its very tonally correct and although neutral it brings just enough warmth in to not sound dry. The highs are smooth and well defined and generally linear sounding. I'm really liking this pairing. I can understand why so many people at canjam were raving about this combo
> 
> If there's any questions feel free to ask away




I'll be pairing my lcd-x with the lc, so it's great to hear the amp handles them well. 
I do have a sort of unrelated question though. Using the carbon, how does the bass of the ether compare to that of the lcd-x? I've heard conflicting reports that the ether is either bass light, or that it goes deeper and has better bass than the lcd-x (a headphone I feel has pretty good bass)


----------



## AxelCloris

Listened to the Ether/LC combo today. I have to say that is one awesome pairing.


----------



## YtseJamer

I just pulled the trigger on the Liquid Carbon.  (#719)


----------



## warrenpchi

So assuming that no one ordered more than one, there's a maximum of only 176 left?


----------



## warrenpchi

money4me247 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, you mean the part where this is the first amp I've bought in years, and that I'm letting go of my other rig?  Why that should give you any idea as to how I feel, I have no idea.
> ...


 
  
 Woo Audio WA7 with WA7tp power supply.


----------



## runeight

warrenpchi said:


> So assuming that no one ordered more than one, there's a maximum of only 176 left?


 
  
 As much as I would like to say yes, not quite. The numbering sequence also includes sales of the other amps. And sometimes people bail out far enough along in the process that we create a unique number anyway.
  
 But still, things are, shall we say, moving along.......


----------



## doctorjazz

Any impressions with the HE-560 or 1K? I expect to be using it with one or both of these. Thanks.


----------



## DigitalFreak

mangler said:


> I'll be pairing my lcd-x with the lc, so it's great to hear the amp handles them well.
> I do have a sort of unrelated question though. Using the carbon, how does the bass of the ether compare to that of the lcd-x? I've heard conflicting reports that the ether is either bass light, or that it goes deeper and has better bass than the lcd-x (a headphone I feel has pretty good bass)


 
 Both headphones have good bass, they're just different. Bass light and bass heavy is all subjective and depends on what your personal view is on bass. The LCD X has more bass in that it has more mid bass then the Ether, the kind of bass a lot on here I've noticed seem to like. The Bass of the Ether is more linear with only a slight accentuation in the mid bass, the kind of bass I like. Neither voicing is good or bad nor bass light. They both control their bass line well and don't bleed out of control everywhere and have enough weight on the notes not to sound anaemic. The Ethers is more detailed and quicker while the X is more full bodied and has more visceral slam behind it. Its not to say the X is slow, its got good overall PRAT. Its to say the Ethers lows sound cleaner and and is just a bit quicker, albeit, it doesn't speed away from the LCD X like a runaway locomotive. As for extension, hard to say. they both extend pretty low compared to other stuff i have here. If one extends deeper then the other it isn't by much. 
  
 Something else you should know and I'm guessing once this amp ships a lot of others will begin to agree. After flipping cans back and fourth and A/Bing with my other amps I've noticed the Carbon is almost colorless. What that means is it renders the voicing of the headphone in its truest form. That's a good thing in that if you have a well voiced headphone it will sound wonderful. Its bad in that if you have something that sounds mediocre it'll sound terrible. The Carbon doesn't hide anything, its completely truthful to the headphones voicing.


----------



## goldendarko

DigitalFreak, thanks for the impressions. I was kind of getting the idea that the Liquid Carbon was voiced to be on the warmer side, judging from everyone's reactions to it at CANJAM, this is the first I've heard of it being voiced neutral, which concerns me a bit because I feel like my 2 amps I've got now (HA-1 & Ragnarok) are pretty neutral and was looking for a more "flavored" approach to music I guess you would say.


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> DigitalFreak, thanks for the impressions. I was kind of getting the idea that the Liquid Carbon was voiced to be on the warmer side, judging from everyone's reactions to it at CANJAM, this is the first I've heard of it being voiced neutral, which concerns me a bit because I feel like my 2 amps I've got now (HA-1 & Ragnarok) are pretty neutral and was looking for a more "flavored" approach to music I guess you would say.


 
 Its not dead neutral, there's some warmth there but not a lot compared to some of the colored stuff on the market such as my Play It By Ear. You should keep in mind a lot of these people who say Cavalli sounds warm usually gravitate to gear that's voiced slightly cold or as neutral as possible. Its warm enough to keep a more natural tonality and not sound overly dry or worse, analytical. Its strength is how it renders itself invisible in the chain. I wish I could compare the Carbon to the Rag or HA-1 but I can't because I haven't heard them. Oppo has never really caught my interest for whatever reason so I've never read up on them. I've read that some people have found the Rag on the bright side, no idea if that's true. I'll make that decision for myself down the road when i get a chance to hear it.
  
 Darko, if you really have your heart set on a good colored amp I say go with a good tube amp. My Play It by Ear is an example of a good colored tube amp that's warm and bassy but not overly so that I find it annoying. There's enough other stuff out there that's probably just as good or better then what I recommended.


----------



## goldendarko

digitalfreak said:


> Its not dead neutral, there's some warmth there but not a lot compared to some of the colored stuff on the market such as my Play It By Ear. You should keep in mind a lot of these people who say Cavalli sounds warm usually gravitate to gear that's voiced slightly cold or as neutral as possible. Its warm enough to keep a more natural tonality and not sound overly dry or worse, analytical. Its strength is how it renders itself invisible in the chain. I wish I could compare the Carbon to the Rag or HA-1 but I can't because I haven't heard them. Oppo has never really caught my interest for whatever reason so I've never read up on them. I've read that some people have found the Rag on the bright side, no idea if that's true. I'll make that decision for myself down the road when i get a chance to hear it.



 


Yeah I've read the same, some people have said the Rag leans to the bright side, but IMO that's just poor headphone pairings. I could imagine that an HD-800 would sound bright with it, but the Rag is very neutral to me, and an excellent partner with the Audeze's. Glad to hear the Cavalli is pairing well with Audeze's too as the LCD-3F's are still my favorite headphones, though I'll be eager to try the HE1000 with the Carbon also when that comes out.


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Its not dead neutral, there's some warmth there but not a lot compared to some of the colored stuff on the market such as my Play It By Ear. You should keep in mind a lot of these people who say Cavalli sounds warm usually gravitate to gear that's voiced slightly cold or as neutral as possible. Its warm enough to keep a more natural tonality and not sound overly dry or worse, analytical. Its strength is how it renders itself invisible in the chain. I wish I could compare the Carbon to the Rag or HA-1 but I can't because I haven't heard them. Oppo has never really caught my interest for whatever reason so I've never read up on them. I've read that some people have found the Rag on the bright side, no idea if that's true. I'll make that decision for myself down the road when i get a chance to hear it.
> ...


 
 Yeah I agree, a bad pairing can really skew someones impressions. I'll be breaking out the LCD-3Fs tomorrow. Tonight I spent all my time with the Ether, X, and Paradox. I started listening to them at around 9 and its 2:30 where I am now. I never thought I'd say this but I'm all headphoned out for tonight and my ears feel funny. I've heard the LCD-3 a couple of times already but they were both pre fazor models so it should be interesting to hear what all the fuss is about.


----------



## goldendarko

You should be in for a treat then. For me the LCD-3F is the perfect Audeze (falls somewhere between the more "neutral" LCD-X and the more colored LCD-3C IMO) , but it sounds like you need some rest first before breaking out the big guns!


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> You should be in for a treat then. For me the LCD-3F is the perfect Audeze (falls somewhere between the more "neutral" LCD-X and the more colored LCD-3C IMO) , but it sounds like you need some rest first before breaking out the big guns!


 
 Lol, I'm just a little tired from a lot of running around during the day an I have a touch of insomnia tonight. I've always respected Audeze so I doubt I'll hate the LCD 3. My favorite can from them believe it or not is the XC. If the 3F is less colored in the mids then the 3C then I'll probably like it a lot better then the 3C.


----------



## xuan87

digitalfreak said:


> Yeah I agree, a bad pairing can really skew someones impressions. I'll be breaking out the LCD-3Fs tomorrow. Tonight I spent all my time with the Ether, X, and Paradox. I started listening to them at around 9 and its 2:30 where I am now. I never thought I'd say this but I'm all headphoned out for tonight and my ears feel funny. I've heard the LCD-3 a couple of times already but they were both pre fazor models so it should be interesting to hear what all the fuss is about.




The LC with the Ether should be an interesting combination, with the LC being described as almost neutral as the Ether being described as super revealing and neutral and taking on the characteristics of the source.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, I've given the LCD-X and the Ether a good listen over the last hour. First off, I recommend going balanced. Although I don't have a SE cable to compare both headphones are sounding spectacular and the Carbon is showing a lot more control with these balanced headphones then it did with my SE headphones. Now, SE sounds pretty good n my opinion but what I've heard balanced just sounds more dynamic an not as forced as with SE.  No grain, no hazing of notes, and excellent clarity across the board. I'm really liking the Ether so far, its very tonally correct and although neutral it brings just enough warmth in to not sound dry. The highs are smooth and well defined and generally linear sounding. I'm really liking this pairing. I can understand why so many people at canjam were raving about this combo
> 
> If there's any questions feel free to ask away


 
  
 Great, now I also want you to do a shootout between the Ether and LCD-X....


----------



## runeight

Gents, a few comments about "voicing."
  
 I don't know any amp manufacturer who expressly voices an amp, except maybe some of the guys who make SET amps.
  
 In my case, amps are not voiced. Rather they are designed to be transparent, while still being musical. MHO is that the amp should, essentially, disappear in the signal chain while doing its job. Now "disappearing" is subjective, that's true, but what I mean is that as you listen you stop listening for what the amp is doing and start listening to the music for what it's doing. And at some point you can hear what the source is doing and what the headphones are doing.
  
 MHO again, would be that a good transparent amp that can control the drivers will reveal exactly what any given set of  headphones actually sound like. Sometimes we like that and sometimes we don't (part of the fun).
  
 A good amp, in this regard, will reveal both the quality of the source and the actual sound of the headphones. The headphones themselves, cannot reveal the quality of the source (either the HW or the actual digital data) unless the amp can faithfully pass that information to them.


----------



## lukeap69

runeight said:


> Gents, a few comments about "voicing."
> 
> I don't know any amp manufacturer who expressly voices an amp, except maybe some of the guys who make SET amps.
> 
> ...


 
 2 thumbs up!


----------



## lukeap69

goldendarko said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Its not dead neutral, there's some warmth there but not a lot compared to some of the colored stuff on the market such as my Play It By Ear. You should keep in mind a lot of these people who say Cavalli sounds warm usually gravitate to gear that's voiced slightly cold or as neutral as possible. Its warm enough to keep a more natural tonality and not sound overly dry or worse, analytical. Its strength is how it renders itself invisible in the chain. I wish I could compare the Carbon to the Rag or HA-1 but I can't because I haven't heard them. Oppo has never really caught my interest for whatever reason so I've never read up on them. I've read that some people have found the Rag on the bright side, no idea if that's true. I'll make that decision for myself down the road when i get a chance to hear it.
> ...


 
 An amp leaning to the bright side? What does that mean? The headphone I can understand, but the amp???
  
 PS - this is not a jab to you goldendarko. In fact, your opinion that it is poor headphone pairing is I believe a more correct statement.


----------



## DigitalFreak

lukeap69 said:


> An amp leaning to the bright side? What does that mean? The headphone I can understand, but the amp???
> 
> PS - this is not a jab to you goldendarko. In fact, your opinion that it is poor headphone pairing is I believe a more correct statement.


 
 Some amps and DACs are badly implemented or just don't pair well with certain headphones meaning when you pair a headphone with certain gear it'll sound overly bright. An example, my ALO RX MKIII-B will make my K712 sound overly harsh. I guess I should have picked my words better


----------



## Pirakaphile

lukeap69 said:


> An amp leaning to the bright side? What does that mean? The headphone I can understand, but the amp???
> 
> PS - this is not a jab to you goldendarko. In fact, your opinion that it is poor headphone pairing is I believe a more correct statement.


 
 So far as I understand, bright is usually said when treble is more prevalent. Dark is used when treble is rolled off. Heavy is more bass, while light is less. This is just what I assume from reading all sorts of reviews, but I'm confused as to how people can consider different amps bright or dark, since they're usually all designed with completely flat frequency response. I read +- .1 dB all the time on amp and DAC specifications.


----------



## longbowbbs

pirakaphile said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > An amp leaning to the bright side? What does that mean? The headphone I can understand, but the amp???
> ...


 
 If you read Dr. Cavalli's comments a few posts ago, he talks about making the amp sound like nothing. Assuming it is a very neutral amp, then the amp will reflect other parts of the chain. Many times people ascribe the sound they hear to the amp alone and do not take into account the other components.


----------



## Pirakaphile

longbowbbs said:


> If you read Dr. Cavalli's comments a few posts ago, he talks about making the amp sound like nothing. Assuming it is a very neutral amp, then the amp will reflect other parts of the chain. Many times people ascribe the sound they hear to the amp alone and do not take into account the other components.


 
 I'm just confused as to how an amp can change the sound, so long as all the specifications are pretty good. I don't doubt the changes there are, I just don't know exactly what causes them other than a combination of all the different components. With my brain, I think I'll stick to just my personal impressions and the impressions of others, so I don't have to learn all that technologic sciency stuff.


----------



## longbowbbs

pirakaphile said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > If you read Dr. Cavalli's comments a few posts ago, he talks about making the amp sound like nothing. Assuming it is a very neutral amp, then the amp will reflect other parts of the chain. Many times people ascribe the sound they hear to the amp alone and do not take into account the other components.
> ...


 
 Your own listening is always your best source. My point, however, is that other things also influence the sound besides the amp. The DAC and your headphones will have a big effect as well.


----------



## Pirakaphile

longbowbbs said:


> Your own listening is always your best source. My point, however, is that other things also influence the sound besides the amp. The DAC and your headphones will have a big effect as well.


 
 It's probably best to notice those differences once you've got good gear on all the sides too. Like how people don't seem to notice any difference with different cables on their lower-end setups. I'm torn on cables though since I like to think electricity does the same thing in a cable no matter its structure and so long as it has fairly good metals, and my experience with my uncles Magnepan cable endevour where I heard differences in the cables he bought compared to the ones he made himself. I guess I'll learn more as I listen to more gear.


----------



## longbowbbs

Cables are like icing on a cake. Great cake is better.....Icing goes on last....


----------



## Pirakaphile

longbowbbs said:


> Cables are like icing on a cake. Great cake is better.....Icing goes on last....


 
 Which is why I'm getting them after Gungnir.


----------



## DigitalFreak

HERE you go guys, this article pretty much sums up where I stand as far as cables are concerned


----------



## longbowbbs

I want an IEM cable that does not tangle....


----------



## FlySweep

longbowbbs said:


> I want an IEM cable that does not tangle....


 
  
Grab this one, bud.  I've owned a lot of IEMs.. both custom & universal.. and  many cables along with those.. and this one is my favorite cable to date.


----------



## runeight

pirakaphile said:


> I'm just confused as to how an amp can change the sound, so long as all the specifications are pretty good. I don't doubt the changes there are, I just don't know exactly what causes them other than a combination of all the different components. With my brain, I think I'll stick to just my personal impressions and the impressions of others, so I don't have to learn all that technologic sciency stuff.


 
  
 Now this is where things move into the realm of the human vs. the machine.
  
 For some reason, amps that seem to be and should be similar, don't always sound that way. Over the years there have been some amps that measured nearly perfectly. And yet, to most people they sounded bad. Some amps have had mediocre measurements, but people couldn't get enough of their foot tapping quality.
  
 For example, all of the audio opamps have nearly drop dead perfect specs for THD. Yet, so far as I know (and I could be wrong), I don't recall any opamp output amps rising to the top of the charts, except maybe a few portables.
  
 So, even when amps seem to have similar measurements, like totally flat frequency response over some range, they don't always sound the same when you take the other variables out of the equation. I have never seen a good explanation for this, although the battle has been fought for decades. And I certainly don't want to ignite that battle here, only just sayin'


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Now this is where things move into the realm of the human vs. the machine.
> 
> For some reason, amps that seem to be and should be similar, don't always sound that way. Over the years there have been some amps that measured nearly perfectly. And yet, to most people they sounded bad. Some amps have had mediocre measurements, but people couldn't get enough of their foot tapping quality.
> 
> ...


 
 Somewhere in there, quantum effects are taking place. A lot of what people hear may be imagined, part of their actual hearing, or whatever else I guess. We've got to rely on magic sometimes?


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> HERE you go guys, this article pretty much sums up where I stand as far as cables are concerned


 
 I finally found a cable to get for my cans due to your list of companies there. Thanks!


----------



## DigitalFreak

pirakaphile said:


> I finally found a cable to get for my cans due to your list of companies there. Thanks!




Not my list, the article is another writer but I'll pass on your kind words.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> Somewhere in there, quantum effects are taking place. A lot of what people hear may be imagined, part of their actual hearing, or whatever else I guess. We've got to rely on magic sometimes?




not to rain on anyone's parade, but there is already quite a few reasonable non-magical explanations for perceived differences in amplifiers and cables during non-blinded testing. however, that is a discussion more suited for the a different thread.

occam's razor. no reason to call upon magic when there are other much simpler explanations.


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> Not my list, the article is another writer but I'll pass on your kind words.


 
 Still, google's been failing me in the search for affordable cable companies.


----------



## warrenpchi

In the final and simplest analysis, I go by what my friend @obobskivich once told me:  "_if it sounds good, it is good._"


----------



## Pirakaphile

warrenpchi said:


> In the final and simplest analysis, I go by what my friend @obobskivich once told me:  "_if it sounds good, it is good._"


 
 But what if it doesn't sound good? THEN WHAT? ... Oh yeah.


----------



## warrenpchi

pirakaphile said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > In the final and simplest analysis, I go by what my friend @obobskivich once told me:  "_if it sounds good, it is good._"
> ...


 
  
 I have an O2, so I've since come up with a consolation saying as a corollary to obobs's rule:  "_well, at least it measures well._"


----------



## MattTCG

warrenpchi said:


> In the final and simplest analysis, I go by what my friend @obobskivich once told me:  "_if it sounds good, it is good._"


 
 THIS!! It doesn't how many headphones I've heard and compared or how many reviews I've written or how many measurements that I've taken. My perfect is likely different from your perfect. My ears, age, hearing abilities are likely different than the next guys. If an o2 sounds are good as a Liquid Fire...you're a lucky guy, enjoy.


----------



## hemtmaker

Does anyone know whether balanced out can be used with a single-ended input, you know like the SR71B?
  
 Cheers


----------



## runeight

SE input to the RCA jacks gives balanced output.


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> You should be in for a treat then. For me the LCD-3F is the perfect Audeze (falls somewhere between the more "neutral" LCD-X and the more colored LCD-3C IMO) , but it sounds like you need some rest first before breaking out the big guns!


 
 Well darko, when you're right you're right, the LCD-3F is sonically a nice update from the LCD-3C. Very nice bass and the mids are nicely open and detailed. Right now I'm ranking the headphones on the Ether as follows
 Ether/LCD-3F (in a dog fight)
 LCD-X
 Paradox
 Hifiman HE-400i
 AKG K712
  
 Should be interesting once I get my balanced cable for the HE-400i in from ALO. Then I can do some real A/Bing ont he differences


----------



## lukeap69

It's a shame HD800 is not included in your review materials.


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> It's a shame HD800 is not included in your review materials.


 
  
 It's a common enough headphone, I'm sure we'll be reading feedback on it before too long.


----------



## DigitalFreak

lukeap69 said:


> It's a shame HD800 is not included in your review materials.


 
 I'm sorry bud, I had a friend message me and offer his HD800 for comparison but I had to decline. I'm already swamped with all these headphones and I only have so much time with everything


----------



## goldendarko

digitalfreak said:


> Well darko, when you're right you're right, the LCD-3F is sonically a nice update from the LCD-3C. Very nice bass and the mids are nicely open and detailed. Right now I'm ranking the headphones on the Ether as follows
> Ether/LCD-3F (in a dog fight)
> LCD-X
> Paradox
> ...



 


Were your LCD-3F's already broken in or are they brand new? I noticed improvements after a few hours of use, they seem much more euphonic to me now compared to when I first got them.


----------



## AlanU

matttcg said:


> THIS!! It doesn't how many headphones I've heard and compared or how many reviews I've written or how many measurements that I've taken. My perfect is likely different from your perfect. My ears, age, hearing abilities are likely different than the next guys. If an o2 sounds are good as a Liquid Fire...you're a lucky guy, enjoy.


 
  
 There's many ways to skin a  cat. Some prefer to add pleasant distortion/overtones to the source (tube dac or tube preamp)  and have solid state amplification. Amplifiers can be cool/neutral/warm depending on design.
  
 Having a 9018 sabre dac will very likely be highly detailed and far from being laid back. However running that through a tube system you may have a great musical machine or if your solid state amp is on the warm side.
  
 Running my burson da160 dac and tube buffer with black treasure tubes manipulates the source to a very organic analog sound that is extremely natural. Using my 02 amp and swapping to my Burson Virtuoso I'll have to say the manipulated source provides excellent enjoyable music. i was quite shocked how both were extremely enjoyable with similar sound.
  
 Running my spacetech labs tube dac I can roll a huge amount of different buffer tubes and whatever amp I use with my hd800's the sound is extremely analog.
  
 If we were discussing tube amplifiers this is where the difference in power tubes can be a drastic SQ change. This is where "house sound" is not really something recongnizable if your talking tube amps.  Solid state amps theres definitely a difference but no where near as drastic imo.


----------



## joeexp

Very dangerous game you are playing!

Covering the sound of the hyper sabre dac with warm tube influence!


----------



## DigitalFreak

Actually tube rolling is quite fun.


----------



## AlanU

joeexp said:


> Very dangerous game you are playing!
> 
> Covering the sound of the hyper sabre dac with warm tube influence!


 
 No different for any person seeking synergy amongst the components on hand.
  
 Rolling tubes is one thing I find incredibly pleasing when I meet my objective of making my ears happy 
  
 There's different ways to approach in building a system. I prefer manipulating the source and leave the amplification to do its task of multipling the source. This allows some margin of the amplifier to have it's finesse and hopefully neutral or even a tad warm. My approach never concerns me of lacking current/power to drive my 2 channel system and as a newbie in Headphones I also take that same approach and manipulate the source. 
  
 I no longer own a 9018 dac chipset for my dacs I own.
  
 I currently take my Virtuoso's dac output and send it to my Grant fidelity B283mk2 tube processor and then send that output to my analog "I" of my Virtuoso input. To my ears its definitely a significant realism to female vocals, piano note decay, string instruments, trumpet etc. Doing this combo completely improves the SQ to my ears. 
  
 Before I purchased the Virtuoso the Objective 02 amp was used in this same manner using my burson DAC. The Virtuoso has more finesse but the 02 amp  with my tube processor the combination was incredibly engaging and not far off from my Virtuoso. If I didn't purchase the burson amp I was on the verge of purchasing a Bryston headphone amp and would have liked that combo too.
  
 The Violectric V200 sound to be a quite popular for being warm and laidback. My approach is to create the signal I want from a tube dac or in my headphone rig using a tube processor/buffer. I think as long as I want a laid back sound I can do that with the source and amplifiy it with a neutral amplifier.
  
 On the same note I'd tweak cabling if you find an amplifier too laid back. From using silver coated copper or silver interconnects and for power cords adding rhodium plated AC ends leans out the heft of some tube configuration amplifiers. There's a risk of making the sound too lean with that sort of cabling.
  
 Nothing "dangerous"....this is what this hobby is all about  
  
 This is no different why there are so many Head fi people out there owning several different pairs of headphones. Different "speakers" have different character.  
  
 If i jumped for the liquid carbon I think I'd love it.......after I do my source manipulation by adding pleasant distortion/harmonics. This is no different if you compare Cavalli's hybrid liquid glass products. Throwing the signal in the analog tube does wonderful things


----------



## aarontyson

Just got back from Axpona / Ear Gear Expo. Mr. Speakers had both the Liquid Carbon and the Liquid Crimson on display with their Ethers and Alpha Primes. I also brought my HE-400i's with me to the show and thankfully Dan let me use the Carbon for an A/B test. First thing you can't forget is the HE-400i's is not in the same league as the Ethers. Secondly my HE400i's are SE and the Ethers are Bal connections. With that said here are my impression with about of use 1/2hr.
 You really need a balanced connection if you want to get the full impact of the Carbon. With the gain set to either 1 or 3x it made no difference too me and the noise floor. It is dead quiet! With the 400i's I really had to turn the vol up all the way to match the output level of the bal ethers. The balanced output plays much louder. The amp to me sounds neutral  to a bit warm and really reveals the source material you are playing. Thankfully the dac in use was a AURALiC VEGA, because it played flawlessly on every sample I played. The build quality is top notch, the design is very appealing, very Cavalli feel to it. The only difference between the Carbon and the Crimson I felt was the power and volume levels between the two. I am very satisfied with what I will be getting waiting till August. In the mean time I also purchased an Emotiva DC-1 at the show too so I could get a fully balanced DAC for only $450 with the show discount. I am currently using a Schiit Bifrost Uber no USB at the moment with the Magni 2 Uber. I also have Audioengine D1 and the Dragonfly v1.2 at my disposal. Then if LH Labs ever releases the Geek Out v2, I will have lots of listening and testing to do too keep me busy! Next I need to buy those Ethers!

 Now If I only had enough permissions I could post pics! Maybe later.


----------



## AlanU

Aaron,
  
 It would be very interesting to hear you comments on using the bitfrost with the liquid carbon amp. Using the identical setup would be interesting since both amps will be capable of running your HP.
  
 DACs are such an interesting beast. The most dramatic changes in audio for me has been swapping DAC's and speakers. The subtle change is amplifiers as long as there's no issue of driving the speakers you own. But of course everything in the chain matters.
  
 My 02 amp with tube buffer sounds noticeably better than my Burson Virtuoso fed directly with the internal dac. Many would never say such a thing because human nature people love to justify their spending....more "expensive" is better isn't always true.....
  
 For the price the Gungnir is extremely affordable and decent dac. Most $1000 and below dac's seem so similar in that price range. There are some performers that are not lateral upgrades. I've been considering on purchasing an MHDT Havana dac which is apparently an extremely musical DAC or even using a simaudio Moon 300d v.1 with Stello U3 usb/spdif converter. Changing the source will give you more depth and musical merit.
  
 Really eager to hear your findings simply by swapping amps. I'd be certain  the carbon will have more finesse...


----------



## chowmein83

aarontyson said:


> Just got back from Axpona / Ear Gear Expo. Mr. Speakers had both the Liquid Carbon and the Liquid Crimson on display with their Ethers and Alpha Primes. I also brought my HE-400i's with me to the show and thankfully Dan let me use the Carbon for an A/B test. First thing you can't forget is the HE-400i's is not in the same league as the Ethers. Secondly my HE400i's are SE and the Ethers are Bal connections. With that said here are my impression with about of use 1/2hr.
> You really need a balanced connection if you want to get the full impact of the Carbon. With the gain set to either 1 or 3x it made no difference too me and the noise floor. It is dead quiet! With the 400i's I really had to turn the vol up all the way to match the output level of the bal ethers. The balanced output plays much louder. The amp to me sounds neutral  to a bit warm and really reveals the source material you are playing. Thankfully the dac in use was a AURALiC VEGA, because it played flawlessly on every sample I played. The build quality is top notch, the design is very appealing, very Cavalli feel to it. The only difference between the Carbon and the Crimson I felt was the power and volume levels between the two. I am very satisfied with what I will be getting waiting till August. In the mean time I also purchased an Emotiva DC-1 at the show too so I could get a fully balanced DAC for only $450 with the show discount. I am currently using a Schiit Bifrost Uber no USB at the moment with the Magni 2 Uber. I also have Audioengine D1 and the Dragonfly v1.2 at my disposal. Then if LH Labs ever releases the Geek Out v2, I will have lots of listening and testing to do too keep me busy! Next I need to buy those Ethers!
> 
> Now If I only had enough permissions I could post pics! Maybe later.


 
  
 Nice, glad to hear that you enjoyed the Liquid Carbon too!
  
 It probably wasn't possible, but it would've been awesome if you heard the 400i with a balanced cable hooked up to the Carbon. I was able to borrow such a cable for my 400i when I heard it at CanJam, and wow what a difference! Yeah, it didn't transform the 400i to an Ether-beating headphone, but it seriously stepped up the performance of the 400i and definitely got it closer to the Ether.
  
 (Not saying that the Ether is a bad-sounding headphone from this - I still like it a lot.)


----------



## YtseJamer

digitalfreak said:


> Well darko, when you're right you're right, the LCD-3F is sonically a nice update from the LCD-3C. Very nice bass and the mids are nicely open and detailed. Right now I'm ranking the headphones on the Ether as follows
> Ether/LCD-3F (in a dog fight)


 
  
 Do you think that the Liquid Carbon has adequate power to drive the LCD-3F to their full potential ?
  
 What are the main differences between the LCD-3F and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## thomascrown

ytsejamer said:


> Do you think that the Liquid Carbon has adequate power to drive the LCD-3F to their full potential ?
> 
> What are the main differences between the LCD-3F and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?
> 
> Thanks!



Same question: I've just ordered both (lc and lcd3) and I'm really interested in hearing some opinions about the pairing


----------



## mikoss

thomascrown said:


> Same question: I've just ordered both (lc and lcd3) and I'm really interested in hearing some opinions about the pairing


 
 I also asked this question here and amongst the pirates... hoping it brings out their full potential!


----------



## thomascrown

DigitalFreak should be our source of answers and wisdom


----------



## Pirakaphile

thomascrown said:


> DigitalFreak should be our source of answers and wisdom



The only person to obtain wisdom is onesself.


----------



## thomascrown

pirakaphile said:


> The only person to obtain wisdom is onesself.



Let's hope onesself reads this thread then! I'm bloody curious


----------



## DigitalFreak

ytsejamer said:


> 1)Do you think that the Liquid Carbon has adequate power to drive the LCD-3F to their full potential ?
> 
> 2)What are the main differences between the LCD-3F and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 1)The Liquid Carbon is easily driving the 3F with some room to spare on the volume knob. I got my hands on a SE cable for the 3F and even on SE the Carbon drives it with more finesse them my other amps. For Example, on SE with my Project Ember with a Russian EH 6922 tube the 3F sounds rather raw and overly edgey. With a balanced cable on the Carbon I'm finding the 3F bass line is cleaner and quicker and has more authority. When I compare the SE vs balanced on the Carbon the Balanced still sounds better. The highs are also smoother and more natural. Overall its a better sonic presentation across the board. It's just a more refined sounding headphone on balanced. 
  
 2)The 3F is the warmer can with more mid bass while the Ether isn't as warm and has less mid bass. Because of that mid bass there's more slam and punch behind the 3F bass line. The highs are more energetic then the Ether but not harsh. Brass instruments sound more front and center because of it too. In comparison the Ether is more linear and neutral. Its closer to a monitor then the 3F. Its strength is detail, speed and tonality. Both headphones are very potent sounding but I'd have to say the Ether is the more accurate while the 3F is slightly more fun sounding. Before anyone asks, no the Ether isn't dry sounding like say some AKGs can be. Just because something is voiced to be linear and more neutral doesn't necessarily mean its dry sounding.


pirakaphile said:


> The only person to obtain wisdom is onesself.


 
 Here, here, in the end its the ears of the owner who decides what sounds good for him/her. This is just my personal musings guys. Hopefully what I write makes its easier for people to decide if the Carbon is the answer they're looking for


----------



## warrenpchi

The keenest eye is that which looks inward, but there are none so blind as those who will not see, so listen.  Word.


----------



## warrenpchi

matttcg said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > In the final and simplest analysis, I go by what my friend @obobskivich once told me:  "_if it sounds good, it is good._"
> ...


 
  
 Right, exactly.  I think there are a lot of guys that get into this hobby trying to find the answer... as if there were some arbitrary piece of gear that can be called perfect.  There isn't.  The fact is, there is no right or wrong, or best or worse, or even good or bad when we get right down to it - because our very appreciation or lack thereof for any given signal chain is firmly subjective and deeply personal (much more so than we would like to admit sometimes).  But to put it simply, there's what we like, and what we don't like, to varying degrees, and that's it.  I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, that's more than enough.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If an o2 sounds are good as a Liquid Fire...you're a lucky guy, enjoy.


 
  
 Sadly, I have not found this to be the case... for me at least.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pirakaphile said:


> The only person to obtain wisdom is onesself.


 
  
 Yes, but that wisdom is not until August at best....


----------



## YtseJamer

digitalfreak said:


> 1)The Liquid Carbon is easily driving the 3F with some room to spare on the volume knob. I got my hands on a SE cable for the 3F and even on SE the Carbon drives it with more finesse them my other amps. For Example, on SE with my Project Ember with a Russian EH 6922 tube the 3F sounds rather raw and overly edgey. With a balanced cable on the Carbon I'm finding the 3F bass line is cleaner and quicker and has more authority. When I compare the SE vs balanced on the Carbon the Balanced still sounds better. The highs are also smoother and more natural. Overall its a better sonic presentation across the board. It's just a more refined sounding headphone on balanced.
> 
> 2)The 3F is the warmer can with more mid bass while the Ether isn't as warm and has less mid bass. Because of that mid bass there's more slam and punch behind the 3F bass line. The highs are more energetic then the Ether but not harsh. Brass instruments sound more front and center because of it too. In comparison the Ether is more linear and neutral. Its closer to a monitor then the 3F. Its strength is detail, speed and tonality. Both headphones are very potent sounding but I'd have to say the Ether is the more accurate while the 3F is slightly more fun sounding. Before anyone asks, no the Ether isn't dry sounding like say some AKGs can be. Just because something is voiced to be linear and more neutral doesn't necessarily mean its dry sounding.
> Here, here, in the end its the ears of the owner who decides what sounds good for him/her. This is just my personal musings guys. Hopefully what I write makes its easier for people to decide if the Carbon is the answer they're looking for


 
  
 Thanks a lot for your feedback, much appreciated!


----------



## Frank I

ytsejamer said:


> Do you think that the Liquid Carbon has adequate power to drive the LCD-3F to their full potential ?
> 
> What are the main differences between the LCD-3F and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 The Carbon will drive the lCD3 easily. In my auditions with the amp it was driving the LCD X easily and sounded fantastic. This amp is a bargain price but anything else from bargain -it is reference quality and maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity.


----------



## aamefford

frank i said:


> TEh Carbon will drive the lCD3 easily. In my auditions with the amp it was driving the LCD X easily and sounded fantastic. This amp is a bargain price but anything else form bargain it is reference quality *and maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity.*



Hah! That's what Warren told me right before I groused about hating preorders, and then caved 10 minutes later and ordered one! LOL.


----------



## Serenitty

aamefford said:


> Hah! That's what Warren told me right before I groused about hating preorders, and then caved 10 minutes later and ordered one! LOL.


 

 This is why I was willing to take a leap of faith on something I'd never heard solely based on Canjam reviews...  Totally out of character for me, ask my wife... 
  
 But not about this particular purchase...


----------



## warrenpchi

aamefford said:


> frank i said:
> 
> 
> > TEh Carbon will drive the lCD3 easily. In my auditions with the amp it was driving the LCD X easily and sounded fantastic. This amp is a bargain price but anything else form bargain it is reference quality *and maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity.*
> ...


 
  
 You would have hated me four months from now if I didn't.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Serenitty, I'm pretty controlled when it comes to audio purchases... but even I jumped in quickly on this one.  IMO, it's simply too good to pass up.


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> You would have hated me four months from now if I didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh puuulleeaaasseeee, you salivate and jump up and down like a little kid at Xmas as much as I do
  
 Hey guys, my balanced ALO Hifiman cable arrived today.
 Stay tuned for my HE-400i impressions


----------



## aamefford

digitalfreak said:


> *Oh puuulleeaaasseeee, you salivate and jump up and down like a little kid at Xmas as much as I do*
> 
> Hey guys, my balanced ALO Hifiman cable arrived today.
> Stay tuned for my HE-400i impressions


 
 Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!  True that!  (Ok, I haven't actually seen it, but it is pretty easy to imagine.)


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I look forward to checking it out at the meet this weekend.


----------



## goldendarko

hifiguy528 said:


> I look forward to checking it out at the meet this weekend.



 


Scoping out the competition I see...


----------



## joeexp

Perhaps we should install a countdown somewhere  - so we know how many days until delivery!


----------



## ejong7

joeexp said:


> Perhaps we should install a countdown somewhere  - so we know how many days until delivery!


 

 Thing is we only know it should be 4 months from preorder date, not like it's a definite time scale for delivery. Though I don't think Cavalli Audio delays that much (you know who Im referring to).


----------



## runeight

hifiguy528 said:


> I look forward to checking it out at the meet this weekend.


 
  
 For those of you who will be in SF this weekend for the meet please note.
  
 The Carbon that will be there is, I believe, the one that Jude has reviewed. It is the very first pre-prototype unit that had the SMPS. Electrically it is the same as the current units that Arli is reviewing and that Dan Clark (Mr. Speakers) has.
  
 However, this first unit has the original stacked 3.5mm jacks on the front and the lettering and graphics on the panels are not as sharp or refined as the current pieces.
  
 To see what the current proto looks like (and something much closer to the production piece) please see the photos on the website.


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> SE input to the RCA jacks gives balanced output.



Great! I am thinking of using the IDSD micro's rca lineout to fred the Liquid carbon, and then use the balanced headphone out. You reckon this dac is good enough?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

runeight said:


> For those of you who will be in SF this weekend for the meet please note.
> 
> The Carbon that will be there is, I believe, the one that Jude has reviewed. It is the very first pre-prototype unit that had the SMPS. Electrically it is the same as the current units that Arli is reviewing and that Dan Clark (Mr. Speakers) has.
> 
> ...


 
  
 In that first prototype in Jude's video, was that dual balanced 3.5mm or just two 3.5mm standard jacks?


----------



## runeight

It was just two standard 3.5mm jacks. One of them had series resistors as an experiment in noise reduction. But it turned out that this was not needed and that a 1/4" jack was more useful.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> For those of you who will be in SF this weekend for the meet please note.
> 
> The Carbon that will be there is, I believe, the one that Jude has reviewed. It is the very first pre-prototype unit that had the SMPS. Electrically it is the same as the current units that Arli is reviewing and that Dan Clark (Mr. Speakers) has.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Will there be a Carbon at the upcoming NYC meet as well (didn't see Cavalli on the the vendor list)?


----------



## MattTCG

hemtmaker said:


> Great! I am thinking of using the IDSD micro's rca lineout to fred the Liquid carbon, and then use the balanced headphone out. You reckon this dac is good enough?


 
 That dac is very underrated IMO. I would say that it would make a good pairing with the Carbon.


----------



## Pirakaphile

So the hunt is on for a DAC. I'll definitely be getting an end-game one that I'll be using forever, and my budget stops at $2300 cause anything that costs more than the Yggdrasil isn't going to be worth saving even longer for. Plenty of time to research, so that'll keep me busy for a while unless I start getting ancy about the Modi/Carbon combo.


----------



## Pirakaphile

gr8soundz said:


> Will there be a Carbon at the upcoming NYC meet as well (didn't see Cavalli on the the vendor list)?



If Cavalli don't say nothing, Carbon won't be there. 

Oh hey, Kansas is ruining my grammar.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

gr8soundz said:


> Will there be a Carbon at the upcoming NYC meet as well (didn't see Cavalli on the the vendor list)?


 
  
 Mr Speakers is.  I just don't know if Dan's going to be there or someone else...


----------



## runeight

I believe that Dan's Carbon will be in NYC, but I have not confirmed this with him. He has various CA demo amps to use as he sees fit to do so or not.


----------



## AxelCloris

buttuglyjeff said:


> Mr Speakers is.  I just don't know if Dan's going to be there or someone else...


 
  
 Dan said he'd be there. And since he's a distributor for Cavalli it makes sense that he'd have the Carbon with him. Plus he had the Carbon at AXPONA and I happen to know how he's handling all of his gear between the two events; the Carbon will definitely be at the NY meet.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> I believe that Dan's Carbon will be in NYC, but I have not confirmed this with him. He has various CA demo amps to use as he sees fit to do so or not.


 


axelcloris said:


> Dan said he'd be there. And since he's a distributor for Cavalli it makes sense that he'd have the Carbon with him. Plus he had the Carbon at AXPONA and I happen to know how he's handling all of his gear between the two events; the Carbon will definitely be at the NY meet.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 Gonna try to make it to the meet. Doubtful at this very minute but we will see.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I need to get myself to a meet sometime. I'll probably go to the next CanJam if I can find the time and scrounge some money. What city was it in again? 'Cause I have relatives in San Diego.


----------



## AxelCloris

pirakaphile said:


> I need to get myself to a meet sometime. I'll probably go to the next CanJam if I can find the time and scrounge some money. What city was it in again? 'Cause I have relatives in San Diego.


 
  
 London.


----------



## doctorjazz

Man, gonna be a stretch to get to LI Saturday, going to try (if anyone wants something to do Friday night and Sunday afternoon in the NY area, I'd recommend the WFMU record fair in Brooklyn, lots of CDs/LPs, live performances-it is Saturday as well, but I know where you'll all be).


----------



## Pirakaphile

axelcloris said:


> London.


 
 Flight from Kansas to London is just a bit more than it is to California.. BUT I'LL DO IT! WHO NEEDS MONEY!


----------



## aqsw

I'm thinking Dr. Cavalli is a genius. I propose he's almost giving these away, so that we will be Cavallied and accept nothing inferior. Then we are addicted (and broke).!!  (I'm already looking at the Liquid Glass- I miss my tubes)


----------



## runeight

aqsw said:


> I'm thinking Dr. Cavalli is a genius. I propose he's almost giving these away, so that we will be Cavallied and accept nothing inferior. Then we are addicted (and broke).!!  (I'm already looking at the Liquid Glass- I miss my tubes)


----------



## nudd

Pre ordered the Carbon!

The race is on whether i will get my ESS Sabre K2M Geek Pulse Infinity in the original chassis (ie, the fastest way humanly possible for LHL to make and send an infinity to someone) or the Carbon first.

I am betting on the Cavalli ...


----------



## ejong7

nudd said:


> Pre ordered the Carbon!
> 
> The race is on whether i will get my ESS Sabre K2M Geek Pulse Infinity in the original chassis (ie, the fastest way humanly possible for LHL to make and send an infinity to someone) or the Carbon first.
> 
> I am betting on the Cavalli ...


 

 Hahaha I do hope not. Want to at least get the combo before the London CanJam so that I can listen and maybe pair some new gear for it XD


----------



## aqsw

runeight said:


> h34r:



your like a crack dealer. Lol


----------



## warrenpchi

Hmm... Liquid Crack?


----------



## Stillhart

I know there's a lot of talk about transportable balanced DAC's for the LC, but if you're not concerned about any of that and just want a really good DAC for the money ... you should definitely have an eye on the Audio-GD DAC-19.  It's SE and it's too big to lug anywhere, but it's R2R (some of the last new TI R2R chips in the wild!) and it sounds really good.  I intend to post more impressions of the DAC-19 as I let my ears settle in, but so far so good.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> I know there's a lot of talk about transportable balanced DAC's for the LC, but if you're not concerned about any of that and just want a really good DAC for the money ... you should definitely have an eye on the Audio-GD DAC-19.  It's SE and it's too big to lug anywhere, but it's R2R (some of the last new TI R2R chips in the wild!) and it sounds really good.  I intend to post more impressions of the DAC-19 as I let my ears settle in, but so far so good.


 
  
 It's more important to be a good DAC, then a balanced DAC....


----------



## aqsw

buttuglyjeff said:


> It's more important to be a good DAC, then a balanced DAC....


but how about a good, balanced dac.?:rolleyes:


----------



## Stillhart

aqsw said:


> but how about a good, balanced dac.?


 
  
 The balanced version of the DAC-19 is the Reference-10.32.  I costs literally double the price and I highly suspect that it doesn't give double the SQ.  And at that point you're very close to Yggy dollars...


----------



## Barry S

I did a comparison of the Gungnir SE vs. balanced output into the Ragnarok with my LCD-X's. The comparison was easy because the Gungnir simultaneously outputs both signals and the Rag has switchable multiple inputs. It sounds like there's a small difference, but depending on the recording, it can be tough to discern any difference. While I'm pretty certain there's small difference, I'm not sure I could reliably pick it out in a blind test. Any time I find myself straining to detect a difference, it's not something I'm going to worry about.
  
 It would be great to find a well-designed compact DAC to complement the LC. My goal is having an easily transportable setup to use in different parts of my house.


----------



## DPogster

Yes to well implemented compact dac to compliment LC. Haven't found the right 1 yet...


----------



## aqsw

stillhart said:


> The balanced version of the DAC-19 is the Reference-10.32.  I costs literally double the price and I highly suspect that it doesn't give double the SQ.  And at that point you're very close to Yggy dollars...




You can look in the other thread about dacs for the carbon.
I have bought one that I think is comparable to the quality of the LC. 

Not even close to yggy dollars.

The yggy is just TOO big. I need a smaller footprint.


----------



## goldendarko

barry s said:


> I did a comparison of the Gungnir SE vs. balanced output into the Ragnarok with my LCD-X's. The comparison was easy because the Gungnir simultaneously outputs both signals and the Rag has switchable multiple inputs. It sounds like there's a small difference, but depending on the recording, it can be tough to discern any difference. While I'm pretty certain there's small difference, I'm not sure I could reliably pick it out in a blind test. Any time I find myself straining to detect a difference, it's not something I'm going to worry about.
> 
> It would be great to find a well-designed compact DAC to complement the LC. My goal is having an easily transportable setup to use in different parts of my house.


 

 Have you looked at the Chord 2Cute? Looks transportable, and the reviews have been fantastic so far, though depending on your budget it may be a bit expensive.


----------



## aqsw

goldendarko said:


> Have you looked at the Chord 2Cute? Looks transportable, and the reviews have been fantastic so far, though depending on your budget it may be a bit expensive.




I really don't understand the love of chord on head fi. 
Two words: Over Priced

For Christs sake, you can get a Lampizator Amber for close to the same price as a Hugo. What's wrong here?


----------



## elwappo99

aqsw said:


> goldendarko said:
> 
> 
> > Have you looked at the Chord 2Cute? Looks transportable, and the reviews have been fantastic so far, though depending on your budget it may be a bit expensive.
> ...


 
  
 It's a tiny market. The Chord stuff is targeted to headphone people, many of whom don't understand the larger audio market. That and hype. Lot's of hype on that.
  
  
 Have you checked out the Emotiva DC-1? It seems like a great match for the Carbon both price and size wise. I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of carbon owners end up with that stack.


----------



## Barry S

goldendarko said:


> Have you looked at the Chord 2Cute? Looks transportable, and the reviews have been fantastic so far, though depending on your budget it may be a bit expensive.


 

 I auditioned the Chord Hugo with my LCD-X's and the synergy was bad--glare and grain in the upper-mids. Granted, it was probably the amp circuit that was the issue, but I'm still skeptical of Chord's prices. The ifi Micro iDSD looks interesting--just need to audition it. The Emotiva DC-1 is indeed excellent, but I'd like to go smaller.


----------



## Stillhart

aqsw said:


> I really don't understand the love of chord on head fi.
> Two words: Over Priced
> 
> For Christs sake, you can get a Lampizator Amber for close to the same price as a Hugo. What's wrong here?


 
  
 Have you listened to the Chord stuff?  While I agree that it's crazy overpriced, it sounds GOOD.  That's what the love is for.  
  
 I'm a value guy so I look at price and performance always (hello, Liquid Carbon!).  Some look for just price and some look for just performance.  Chord's stuff is targeted squarely at the "just performance" folks.
  
 EDIT - To be clear, the Hugo's amp is just okay.  The DAC is what you're paying for IMO.


----------



## doctorjazz

I know I'm repeating myself, but the Pono does balanced line out. John Atkinson felt it was close to dacs multiple times it's price on his main system...just sayin


----------



## xuan87

elwappo99 said:


> It's a tiny market. The Chord stuff is targeted to headphone people, many of whom don't understand the larger audio market. That and hype. Lot's of hype on that.
> 
> 
> Have you checked out the Emotiva DC-1? It seems like a great match for the Carbon both price and size wise. I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of carbon owners end up with that stack.


 
  
 Currently aiming at the Emotiva DC-1 for the LC, I read somewhere earlier in the thread that someone has already bought one during an audio show in anticipation for his LC. I'll probably wait for their summer sale though
  
 Reason why I chose the DC-1: Pretty cheap for its features, balanced output, neutral sound signature (most important reason!), and small footprint. 
  
 I hope to upgrade to a R2R DAC in the future (the Audio GD DAC19 seems like the best deal currently for a well designed R2R DAC) but I'm in no hurry to do so.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> I know I'm repeating myself, but the Pono does balanced line out. John Atkinson felt it was close to dacs multiple times it's price on his main system...just sayin


 
  
 Does the Pono work as a USB DAC?  If not, I don't know that I'd consider it for myself.  I used one at CES (Audeze was using it to demo their stuff) and, while it did sound quite good, the UI made me want to chuck it against the wall.


----------



## money4me247

stillhart said:


> Does the Pono work as a USB DAC?  If not, I don't know that I'd consider it for myself.  I used one at CES (Audeze was using it to demo their stuff) and, while it did sound quite good, the UI made me want to chuck it against the wall.


 
 correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, the pono player can NOT function as a standalone dac.
  
 source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/629454/pono-neil-youngs-portable-hi-res-music-player/1755#post_11151827
  
 edit: keep in mind when purchasing the pono, you are paying for the dac+amp+dap tied down to their PonoMusic App desktop software and possibly buying into their PonoMusic Online store. So your money can go further elsewhere if you are not interested in those aspects. I am also personally pretty skeptical of the long-term viability of the DAP market nowadays. Much simpler and more prudent to just use your smartphone + portable dac/amp (impo) esp if your smartphone has external sd card support.


----------



## aqsw

stillhart said:


> Have you listened to the Chord stuff?  While I agree that it's crazy overpriced, it sounds GOOD.  That's what the love is for.
> 
> I'm a value guy so I look at price and performance always (hello, Liquid Carbon!).  Some look for just price and some look for just performance.  Chord's stuff is targeted squarely at the "just performance" folks.
> 
> ...


----------



## doctorjazz

I have no big problems with the UI...most daps I've used are annoying at one time or another, find the Pono better than others I've used (DX90, X3, even iPod). Don't think it functions as a usb dac, but I can check...I've been strictly using it as a dap. Which means, you have to either put music on it out on a memory card...sort of the primitive way some still put discs in players or turntables to play music...


----------



## doctorjazz

As for the Pono ecosystem, many avoid it for the most part...Ponoplayer software is essentially a modded JRIVER, and you do need it for firmware updates (it's free), but you can drag/drop music to your heart's content and never touch the Pono software or buy anything from their store (they do have a good amount of high resolution music if you're interested, but there are other places to buy it as well, and HDTracks or other site download (or ripped music) works fine. I love mine, ymmv.


----------



## aqsw

xuan87 said:


> Currently aiming at the Emotiva DC-1 for the LC, I read somewhere earlier in the thread that someone has already bought one during an audio show in anticipation for his LC. I'll probably wait for their summer sale though
> 
> Reason why I chose the DC-1: Pretty cheap for its features, balanced output, neutral sound signature (most important reason!), and small footprint.
> 
> I hope to upgrade to a R2R DAC in the future (the Audio GD DAC19 seems like the best deal currently for a well designed R2R DAC) but I'm in no hurry to do so.



peaked my interest, but Im looking more for an end unit at my age(61).probably don't have that many years left, so I will enjoy them with my Hegel HD12


----------



## doctorjazz

aqsw said:


> xuan87 said:
> 
> 
> > Currently aiming at the Emotiva DC-1 for the LC, I read somewhere earlier in the thread that someone has already bought one during an audio show in anticipation for his LC. I'll probably wait for their summer sale though
> ...




Your end years, huh? Turning 62 this May, that was the most depressing thing I've read in these parts in a long time...


----------



## aqsw

doctorjazz said:


> Your end years, huh? Turning 62 this May, that was the most depressing thing I've read in these parts in a long time...


And in 5 years I will be 66 and still looking!Sorry budddy!


----------



## doctorjazz

aqsw said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Your end years, huh? Turning 62 this May, that was the most depressing thing I've read in these parts in a long time...
> ...




:


----------



## DigitalFreak

doctorjazz said:


> Your end years, huh? Turning 62 this May, that was the most depressing thing I've read in these parts in a long time...




My father died of cancer at 69 
Enjoy life and your music to its fullest my friend. You never know how long before you're called from this world. 

Sorry for being depressing 
Bless


----------



## joeexp

Thanks for sharing - depressing thought of the day


----------



## DigitalFreak

joeexp said:


> Thanks for sharing - depressing thought of the day




 Sorry fellow bopper. It happened just recently and it's been hard for me not having him around. My apologies.


----------



## hemtmaker

digitalfreak said:


> Sorry fellow bopper. It happened just recently and it's been hard for me not having him around. My apologies.



God bless, take care


----------



## doctorjazz

digitalfreak said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Your end years, huh? Turning 62 this May, that was the most depressing thing I've read in these parts in a long time...
> ...




Sorry, actually do have a similar family history to you...you convinced me, I ordered a $100,000 Linn Hifi stereo system and Abyss headphones for it ( ...I can dream, can't I).
I'll give the final word (maybe not final...) to this song.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

hemtmaker said:


> God bless, take care


 
  
 Little off topic, but are you a Z7 owner that order an LC too?  I'm hoping I'm not the only one wanting this amp to help the Sony headphone shine....


----------



## hemtmaker

Yes. I couldn't resist even the Australian exchange rate is bad. I also has a Geek pulse infinity ordered (God know when it will arrive!) Currently considering whether to get a micro IDSD to go with the setup. Z7 out of ak240 balanced sound pretty good though.



buttuglyjeff said:


> Little off topic, but are you a Z7 owner that order an LC too?  I'm hoping I'm not the only one wanting this amp to help the Sony headphone shine....


----------



## doctorjazz

Ordered an LH Labs Wave and source, with the various upgrades...this should work however one wants it to for the LC, but who knows when we'll finally get this stuff...


----------



## Pirakaphile

I'm thinking I'll be getting the Yggy for the Carbon. I mean, why not? I love Schiit and their attitude, I think they deserve my money and from what I hear, the Yggy is one of the best DACs ever made. And I'll use it in my future speaker setup as well. Save up my tax returns and put some money aside and I'll have it in a couple of years.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> I'm thinking I'll be getting the Yggy for the Carbon. I mean, why not? I love Schiit and their attitude, I think they deserve my money and from what I hear, the Yggy is one of the best DACs ever made. And I'll use it in my future speaker setup as well. Save up my tax returns and put some money aside and I'll have it in a couple of years.


 
 good plan  I was contemplating a similar course of action as I can't really find any standalone balanced dac that is very appealing to me under the $1k price point (except maybe the dc-1 which is a dac/amp combo). If going to get something expensive anyways, might as well go all out & don't worry about upgrading later down the road.


----------



## joeexp

Re: Yggy

 Oops there goes portability  -
  
 Only weighs half a ton and needs 3 months to warm up …. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 And you have to keep it on all the time. In ten years time it has paid for itself in electricity. whoosh


----------



## Pirakaphile

money4me247 said:


> good plan  I was contemplating a similar course of action as I can't really find any standalone balanced dac that is very appealing to me under the $1k price point (except maybe the dc-1 which is a dac/amp combo). If going to get something expensive anyways, might as well go all out & don't worry about upgrading later down the road.



It'll definitely be a while with the Modi 'till then, so I'll have plenty of time to just listen to music. Besides, that means I get to read all sorts of reviews on the Yggdrasil 'till I get it. And when I do it'll be a crazy big stepup, so hopefully the sound'll be even more fantastic than it already is! 
Besides, the Carbon is going to look adorable on top of the Yggy!


----------



## Pirakaphile

joeexp said:


> Oops there goes portability  -
> 
> Only weighs half a ton and needs 3 months to warm up …. :evil:



Should schiit invent the full size amp/DAC portable electricity station?


----------



## AustinValentine

pirakaphile said:


> Should schiit invent the full size amp/DAC portable electricity station?


 
  
 Time for a Elan Musk-Mike Moffat collaboration, call it Musky Schiit.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pirakaphile said:


> I'm thinking I'll be getting the Yggy for the Carbon. I mean, why not? I love Schiit and their attitude, I think they deserve my money and from what I hear, the Yggy is one of the best DACs ever made. And I'll use it in my future speaker setup as well. Save up my tax returns and put some money aside and I'll have it in a couple of years.


 
  
 It was just a few weeks ago you were trying to justify an HD650 purchase, and now you are up to a Yggy....
  
 .....what have we done to you?  I'm a little ashamed.


----------



## Pirakaphile

austinvalentine said:


> Time for a Elan Musk-Mike Moffat collaboration, call it Musky Schiit.



"Musky Schiit may sound disgusting, but it sounds incredible!"


----------



## Pirakaphile

buttuglyjeff said:


> It was just a few weeks ago you were trying to justify an HD650 purchase, and now you are up to a Yggy....
> 
> .....what have we done to you?  I'm a little ashamed.



Relax, I've got years to save up and change my mind.


----------



## Stillhart

austinvalentine said:


> Time for a Elan Musk-Mike Moffat collaboration, call it Musky Schiit.


 
  
 Elan Musk already has a company that will help.  Clean, cheap solar power means you don't have to worry about leaving your stuff on.  Just sayin.  
  
 Also, @money4me247, I'm surprised you're getting caught up in the need for a balanced DAC too.  There are some amazing DAC's under $1000 that aren't balanced; it seems weird to jump up to $2300 JUST to get balanced.


----------



## money4me247

stillhart said:


> Elan Musk already has a company that will help.  Clean, cheap solar power means you don't have to worry about leaving your stuff on.  Just sayin.
> 
> Also, @money4me247, I'm surprised you're getting caught up in the need for a balanced DAC too.  There are some amazing DAC's under $1000 that aren't balanced; it seems weird to jump up to $2300 JUST to get balanced.


 
 lol I don't think I need balanced and I honestly doubt it would make that significant of a difference. just curious & wanna try it. I already have an amazing sub-$1k dac that isn't balanced  just bored & looking to waste $$$ I guess hahaha. kinda getting tired of jumping from one side grade to another, so thinking maybe just go all out & retire from this hobby.


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> lol I don't think I need balanced and I honestly doubt it would make that significant of a difference. just curious & wanna try it. I already have an amazing sub-$1k dac that isn't balanced  just bored & looking to waste $$$ I guess hahaha. kinda getting tired of jumping from one side grade to another, so thinking maybe just go all out & retire from this hobby.


 
  
 I see, I misunderstood your post.  
  
 You'll never retire from this hobby!  You know as well as I do that trying all the different equipment is half the fun!


----------



## prot

stillhart said:


> I see, I misunderstood your post.
> 
> You'll never retire from this hobby!  You know as well as I do that trying all the different equipment is half the fun!




Thx to ebay one could have a lot of fun and trials for quite cheap. Trouble starts when you give into the new, shinny stuff hype. E.g. right now the Ether is tickling my wallet quite hard  ... and this amp isnt looking so bad either


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

hemtmaker said:


> Yes. I couldn't resist even the Australian exchange rate is bad. I also has a Geek pulse infinity ordered (God know when it will arrive!) Currently considering whether to get a micro IDSD to go with the setup. Z7 out of ak240 balanced sound pretty good though.


 
  
 I'm surprised you don't want to go straight from the AK240 to the LC...


----------



## hemtmaker

buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm surprised you don't want to go straight from the AK240 to the LC...



ak240's DAC is just okay at best IMO


----------



## KritiKal

Apologies if this has already been asked/answered, I had a brief look and couldn't find it, so:

When I read the first post, I read it as a limited amount of units for a reduced price ($599), for a limited amount of time.
But, I think this is just the way I'm reading it, and it's actually simply a limited amount of units for the final price.
All I know for certain is I better hurry up and order one, but which one is accurate?


----------



## Serenitty

kritikal said:


> Apologies if this has already been asked/answered, I had a brief look and couldn't find it, so:
> 
> When I read the first post, I read it as a limited amount of units for a reduced price ($599), for a limited amount of time.
> But, I think this is just the way I'm reading it, and it's actually simply a limited amount of units for the final price.
> All I know for certain is I better hurry up and order one, but which one is accurate?


 
  
 As I read it there would be 500 units sold on the first run at $599.  200 were needed to start production, a number we passed within about 24 hours.
  
 IF there is another run, which Dr. Cavalli was not committing to, they would be about $799 each, a price he was also NOT committing to which would depend on actual production costs learned from the first run.
  
 Based on that I bought one in the first 10 minutes and I was about the 90th buyer in line...
  
 I think we're somewhere in the 350 range now?  I'm not sure...


----------



## DPogster

^ limited run at lower price of 599. Once bought up, next run will be at a higher price.


----------



## mscott58

dpogster said:


> ^ limited run at lower price of 599. Once bought up, next run will be at a higher price.


 
 If Alex decides he wants to make more. Not a given!


----------



## KritiKal

I see! Well, I'm putting up a couple of pairs of IEM's for sale, hopefully I can sort it in the next few days!


----------



## KritiKal

The horrible AUD-USD exchange rate really doesn't help, otherwise I would have pulled the pin last week!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I'm sure Alex is letting demand dictate how many production runs the LC will eventually have.  Think its safe to assume the 500 pieces will be sold before the production run ends?  I'm sure this run is an indicator as to the demand for nice amplification in the $500 - $1000 price point...


----------



## gr8soundz

Based on how long its taking the 1st run to sell (I thought for sure it would sell-out in minutes), I doubt a 2nd run will happen.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Based on how long its taking the 1st run to sell (I thought for sure it would sell-out in minutes), I doubt a 2nd run will happen.


 
  
 I would disagree with that reasoning.  I think it's likely that a lot of folks are waiting to see the final unit, see some reviews, etc. before pulling the trigger.  I suspect that after the first run hits the streets, there will be a spike in demand for a second run.


----------



## AxelCloris

I agree with Stillhart. There are many who will not purchase a product that's unproven in the wild. Cavalli has a couple of prototypes out there but no production versions exist. But personally I think now would not be the time to go by that logic since we may not ever see a second run. And if we do see a second run Alex has said he may need to raise the prices to offset the additional production costs.


----------



## gr8soundz

axelcloris said:


> I agree with Stillhart. There are many who will not purchase a product that's unproven in the wild. Cavalli has a couple of prototypes out there but no production versions exist. But personally I think now would not be the time to go by that logic since we may not ever see a second run. *And if we do see a second run Alex has said he may need to raise the prices to offset the additional production costs.*


 
  
 That's why I'm surprised 1st run units are still avail for purchase. I've never seen a Cavalli ad and those who know about them already wanted a Liquid Gold or another of their amps.
  
 Guess we'll have to wait and see after the reviews arrive. Just curious to see how quickly a 2nd run, if done, would sell at $800. And that's assuming the 1st run actually sells out which hasn't happened yet.


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> I agree with Stillhart. There are many who will not purchase a product that's unproven in the wild. Cavalli has a couple of prototypes out there but no production versions exist. But personally I think now would not be the time to go by that logic since we may not ever see a second run. And if we do see a second run Alex has said he may need to raise the prices to offset the additional production costs.


 
 Do I really have to agree with Dan and Brian? Geez...
  
 Yes, once the production units hit the street and the reviews flow (good number of senior Head-Fiers appear to have jumped on the LC bandwagon, so their viewpoints will carry some weight) then demand will jump. The calculus will then be how much the LC supports Alex's strategy/business model. Is it an entry-point to people working up the Cavalli ladder? That would be great for him. If it's just a category unto itself I'd say he needs to raise prices and decide how much he wants to focus in this area. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Ham Sandwich

stillhart said:


> I would disagree with that reasoning.  I think it's likely that a lot of folks are waiting to see the final unit, see some reviews, etc. before pulling the trigger.  I suspect that after the first run hits the streets, there will be a spike in demand for a second run.


 
  
 It does take some faith to commit to buying an amp at this price or above without having heard it first.  I have the faith in Cavalli's ears and design principles.  But I also understand why many others would choose to stay on the fence till they can hear it, even if that means paying more.
  
 I do hope it goes to a second run and continues to be available.  If I like it I want to be able to recommend it to others and have it available for them to actually be able to buy.


----------



## aqsw

axelcloris said:


> I agree with Stillhart. There are many who will not purchase a product that's unproven in the wild. Cavalli has a couple of prototypes out there but no production versions exist. But personally I think now would not be the time to go by that logic since we may not ever see a second run. And if we do see a second run Alex has said he may need to raise the prices to offset the additional production costs


 
 I totally agree with this.
  
 Cavalli is a fantastic company, but like any company, they do not want to see idle hands. I believe that people are waiting for the revues.
 When they hear them and the first 500 are sold, then will have have to pay the premium if they still want them. (I'm guessing $899.00) for the next 500.
  
 The next one is the Cavalli Crack. No audiophile can resist!!


----------



## Barry S

The pre-sale has been wildly successful for a $600 prototype amp that very few people have heard yet. If the amp is successful, I'm sure there will be future production runs--Cavalli is a business. My guess is the price won't go up much, if at all. It makes sense to have products at the $600-$700 price point that bring in a steady stream of revenue.


----------



## aqsw

barry s said:


> The pre-sale has been wildly successful for a $600 prototype amp that very few people have heard yet. If the amp is successful, I'm sure there will be future production runs--Cavalli is a business. My guess is the price won't go up much, if at all. It makes sense to have products at the $600-$700 price point that bring in a steady stream of revenue.




So I guessing you are not in yet?!

Start saving that extra 300 right now.


----------



## Dannek

barry s said:


> The pre-sale has been wildly successful for a $600 prototype amp that very few people have heard yet. If the amp is successful, I'm sure there will be future production runs--Cavalli is a business. My guess is the price won't go up much, if at all. It makes sense to have products at the $600-$700 price point that bring in a steady stream of revenue.


 
 All we have to go on at this point is the information that Alex Cavalli posted in the thread announcing the start of the pre-sale of the Liquid Carbon.
  
 As quoted..- "If there are future runs, we will probably have to adjust price to better reflect cost.  It's possible that this could be in the range of $799, although this decision is reserved for later. Right now the focus will be on getting this run out on time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





".
  
 So nothing is set in stone, but either way it is really nice that Alex Cavalli is offering members of Head-Fi a special price on the first run of this amp.  I've read many posts in the CanJam thread and the Spring Hill meet thread from experienced Head-Fi members detailing how nice the pre production Liquid Carbon sounds in various configurations. Judging by the reviews of his other offerings, I felt comfortable ordering the Liquid Carbon as my first amp in this price range.  Time will tell...


----------



## Barry S

aqsw said:


> So I guessing you are not in yet?!
> 
> Start saving that extra 300 right now.




Your guesses are only 50% wrong now. :rolleyes:

The free market is remarkably good at valuing products. If confidence is high that the price will be 800-900 within a few months, the limited stock should sell quickly. If I was confident, I'd buy 20 units now and resell them once the price goes up. Let's say, the price only goes up $200. If I sold them for $700, I'd be making $100 each and the future buyer would be getting a $100 discount. Who wouldn't be happy on either side of that deal? So far, I don't see that level of confidence.

I believe the Liquid Carbon has the potential to become the most profitable Cavalli amp, but it has to be priced right. From the early video, I think the target was $500 and a bit of a cushion was built in by pricing them at $600. The enclosure is being kept simple, so that goes a long way in controlling the product cost. If future batches don't rise at all in price, some of you will be disappointed and that's understandable. Part of the encouragement to buy is the idea of a limited product an/or rising price. 

So there's already some pressure to raise the price, but I don't think it has to be too much to still make the "500" feel like they got in on the ground floor. It wouldn't surprise me to see a modest increase of $50-$100. Much more and I think it starts to seriously cut into the sales volume.


----------



## Serenitty

barry s said:


> Your guesses are only 50% wrong now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sales volume in the future will likely be the key though.  Now we've got a big slug of orders all at once and Cavalli can order the components in bulk, likely driving the prices down a lot, especially on the enclosure.  If orders in the future trickle in, then component purchases will be much smaller, which will drive the price up.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

barry s said:


> Your guesses are only 50% wrong now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If Alex thought there was that potential, he would have limited purchase quantities to one ore two.  He said he wasn't going to do that, when the limit was suggested in this thread....
  
 Your $100 prediction seems spot on to me too.


----------



## doctorjazz

As you get closer and/or over that $1000 price mark, I think you change from a unit that has general audiophile appeal (there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one), to a real boutique item, much more limited in appeal or sales. I think $500 cutoff or so keeps you in impulse range, $500-1,000 in the "I'll go for it but it hurts" range, with a drop in sales, and more than $1000 is true obsessive territory (and, of course, then there it the $2k, 3K stratosphere range, but that really must be limited, especially if it's for headphone only gear). My totally unscientific, unresearched, totally unsubstantiated impressions, of course.


----------



## YtseJamer

digitalfreak said:


> Well darko, when you're right you're right, the LCD-3F is sonically a nice update from the LCD-3C. Very nice bass and the mids are nicely open and detailed. Right now I'm ranking the headphones on the Ether as follows
> Ether/LCD-3F (in a dog fight)
> LCD-X


 
  
 Hello DigitalFreak,
  
 I have a couple of questions for you :
  

What do you think of the synergy between the LCD-X and the Liquid Carbon ?
What are the main differences between the LCD-X and the Ether with the Liquid Carbon ?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I do get regular emails asking if the Carbon has balanced out when driven SE at the RCA jacks. I know we've discussed this a few times in the thread, but for anyone coming in late, the Carbon has a phase splitter at the RCA inputs which drives the amp in full balanced mode through to the headphones.


----------



## Poimandres

Dr Cavalli,
 Is there any chance you would add a balanced kobiconn input for the LC?


----------



## runeight

Well, there's is really no room left on the back for another jack and with two XLR connectors it is always possible to make an adaptor. I also need to give you a little more information about using this type of connector and I'll try to get to that tomorrow.


----------



## Poimandres

Thank you.


----------



## DigitalFreak

ytsejamer said:


> Hello DigitalFreak,
> 
> I have a couple of questions for you :
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Darko, synergy wise, the Carbon has owned all my other amps with the X and the Ether.
 The X is a slightly more warmer and bassier headphone when compared to the Ether. I like the Xs bass more then the Ethers with Trance and Techno (its a fun sounding bass) but the Ether has by far the better mids. Also the Ethers highs seems to sound a bit more neutral while the Xs sound a slight step more energetic. What I've noticed is that tonality on both headphones is improved with the Carbon, more so with the Ether then the X, as well as being cleaner, think crisper note presentation. Also, the Carbon controls the Xs bass by far better then say any of my Garage1217 amps or my Play It By Ear. With the PIBE amp,and my other amps for that matter, I found there was a little to much mid bass bloom which resulted in leeching into the lower mids. With the Carbon there was no leeching when compared against the other amps. Darko, my honest opinion is you'll like what you hear. The X shines very nicely with the Carbon and I highly recommend you get a balanced cable for it if you don't have one already. I'm not one for cable propaganda but I have to admit all the headphones I've paired to the Carbon with a balanced cable does sound better. Its not a night and day difference mind you but it is better. That's my honest opinion, if you decide to try the Carbon hopefully you'll argee with my observations.
  
 Just for everyones information, as of the end if this week I will be packing up all the headphones as well as the Carbon and sending them back to Cavalli Audio. Its going to be a long wait for me once this little amp is gone. In the meantime I'm going to concentrate on building a new desktop rig around the Liquid Carbon. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this because the deal isn't finalized yet but I think I may have scored myself a new DAC. If things work out within the next few weeks I should be the proud owner of a new Chord 2Cute DAC. I'm pretty excited about the idea because thus far everyone who has heard the Carbon with a Chord DAC has praised the pairing. I've also made another decision, in a few months I intend to buy an Ether and use it as my reference benchmark headphone for review. I was sceptical of the hype I had read involving the pairing of the Carbon and the Ether. After a week of listening I've become a believer.


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks for the info, DigitalFreak. Great to hear the LC appears to be everything we're all hoping it'll be.

On the subject of DACs, fed up waiting for the Pulse Infinity to arrive, I've got a Hugo TT and DiDiT DAC212 here for demo at the moment. The performance of the DAC212 in particular has blown me away, so I'm planning on pairing one of those with the LC. An expensive DAC to pair with a $600 amp for sure, but sounds to me like the LC is up to the job. Anyway, your source can never be too good imho .


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

poimandres said:


> Dr Cavalli,
> Is there any chance you would add a balanced kobiconn input for the LC?


 
  
 It's kind of a rare input if you think about it.  Is there anything else beside Cypher Labs DACs that use it?


----------



## ejong7

Btw is a muting relay planned for the amp?


----------



## MattTCG

ejong7 said:


> Btw is a muting relay planned for the amp?


 
  
 Great question! +1


----------



## jjacq

Curious, besides the 500 units cap for the preorder price, is there a date deadline as well?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jjacq said:


> Curious, besides the 500 units cap for the preorder price, is there a date deadline as well?


 
  
 The planned run is 500.  That's the only limiting factor.


----------



## joeexp

insidious meme said:


> Ah, and he talks about hearsay.


 
  
 Again nobody knows who you are talking about. You are not very clear in your expression.

 Just let go  …


----------



## MattTCG

Carbon has no rival=unrivaled.


----------



## elwappo99

matttcg said:


> Carbon has no rival=unrivaled.


 
  
  
 Oh snap


----------



## doctorjazz

I should have a "rival" amp, the MicroZOTL, to review in about a month, though it's twice as expensive as the LC, and it'll take much longer for the LC to arrive. And, it's not really transportable...maybe it's not actually a rival, but it'll be interesting to compare if ruining works out...


----------



## MattTCG

^^ haha...let me put it this way. I haven't heard an amp under 1k that gave me the kind of balance, tone, versatility that the Carbon does (pre-pro). And I've owned and heard quite a few in this price category. The HA-1 is a compelling product in this price range if not just over budget. But then again when I consider those two products, the HA-1 is 2x the price of the Carbon.


----------



## achristilaw

doctorjazz said:


> I should have a "rival" amp, the MicroZOTL, to review in about a month, though it's twice as expensive as the LC, and it'll take much longer for the LC to arrive. And, it's not really transportable...maybe it's not actually a rival, but it'll be interesting to compare if ruining works out...


 

 I love my MicroZOTL...... particularly with my HP-2's and any smaller ensembles (Quartets etc.). Tone bleeds from my pours, also great with the early Grado's and Opera!


----------



## doctorjazz

achristilaw said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I should have a "rival" amp, the MicroZOTL, to review in about a month, though it's twice as expensive as the LC, and it'll take much longer for the LC to arrive. And, it's not really transportable...maybe it's not actually a rival, but it'll be interesting to compare if ruining works out...
> ...




It's being reissued, upgraded, but this probably isn't the place to go into detail. Search/watch Drbluenewmexico, he's the first one with it, will post a review in the next few weeks, I should get one in about a month. And, I am in for the LC, but likely it's a different animal.


----------



## achristilaw

doctorjazz said:


> It's being reissued, upgraded, but this probably isn't the place to go into detail. Search/watch Drbluenewmexico, he's the first one with it, will post a review in the next few weeks, I should get one in about a month. And, I am in for the LC, but likely it's a different animal.


 

 I just hope it has David's blessing.........


----------



## doctorjazz

achristilaw said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > It's being reissued, upgraded, but this probably isn't the place to go into detail. Search/watch Drbluenewmexico, he's the first one with it, will post a review in the next few weeks, I should get one in about a month. And, I am in for the LC, but likely it's a different animal.
> ...




It does, and his input. (but he's not the principal in its release).


----------



## elwappo99

matttcg said:


> ^^ haha...let me put it this way. I haven't heard an amp under 1k that gave me the kind of balance, tone, versatility that the Carbon does (pre-pro). And I've owned and heard quite a few in this price category. The HA-1 is a compelling product in this price range if not just over budget. But then again when I consider those two products, the HA-1 is 2x the price of the Carbon.


 
  
 haha I know you don't mean it's the best amp out there, blah blah. But a good price/performer. Just a bit of humor


----------



## money4me247

elwappo99 said:


> haha I know you don't mean it's the best amp out there, blah blah. But a good price/performer. Just a bit of humor


 
 You know honestly if you think about it, it would seem like the Oppo HA-1 is a better price/performer as their components would split down into a $599 amplifier+$599 dac (both balanced, class A amplifier with higher power ratings and preamp, lots of extra features without seeming to skimping out on the performance aspect).
  
 the most affordable balanced combination I am aware of is the $699 LC + $499 DC-1 which ends up being the same price unless you find the emotiva on sale.
  
 really hard to tell how they will compare sonically until after more people get their hands on production versions and get a chance to do some direct comparisons.
  
 edit: just musing about what to do outloud. don't misinterpret this as anything critical or start arguing over my posting hahah


----------



## elwappo99

money4me247 said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > haha I know you don't mean it's the best amp out there, blah blah. But a good price/performer. Just a bit of humor
> ...


 
  
 That's definitely a good point. The HA-1 is a DAC/AMP while the Carbon is an AMP only. I don't know that unit, so I don't know if it's fair to say 50% of the cost is the amp and 50% is the DAC (but gosh it looks real sharp). 
  
 I'm not sure if I'm following your requirements, but I think the cheapest total balanced set-up is still from Audio-GD. The NFB-10 runs @  $580, which is pretty darn good.
  
  
 Is your edit because I'm coming off too strong? Am I that guy in this thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Sorry, I'll try to be nicer.


----------



## sujitsky

I had the opportunity to listen to the LC today at the NY meet (thank you Dan - Mr. Speakers). I tried it with the Ether (Balanced) and my EL8 (open, SE) out of an Auralic Dac
  
 Conclusion: I do not regret ordering these one bit. NOT ONE BIT  . I am now looking forward to getting my hands on this amp even more than before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This is after hearing it (to my ears) compare favorably against a combo of the Schiit Monsters (Yggy and Rag) and a Woo Audio amp.
  
 so all in all


----------



## doctorjazz

sujitsky said:


> I had the opportunity to listen to the LC today at the NY meet (thank you Dan - Mr. Speakers). I tried it with the Ether (Balanced) and my EL8 (open, SE) out of an Auralic Dac
> 
> Conclusion: I do not regret ordering these one bit. NOT ONE BIT  . I am now looking forward to getting my hands on this amp even more than before
> 
> ...




Glad to hear it...really wanted to get to the meet, but just couldn't pull it off. Ordered as well, boy would it be a bummer if you reported that they suck


----------



## sujitsky

doctorjazz said:


> Glad to hear it...really wanted to get to the meet, but just couldn't pull it off. Ordered as well, boy would it be a bummer if you reported that they suck


 
  
 they were good enough for my wife to choose Ether over HE1000 in the sound and esp. comfort department


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> That's definitely a good point. The HA-1 is a DAC/AMP while the Carbon is an AMP only. I don't know that unit, so I don't know if it's fair to say 50% of the cost is the amp and 50% is the DAC (but gosh it looks real sharp).
> 
> I'm not sure if I'm following your requirements, but I think the cheapest total balanced set-up is still from Audio-GD. The NFB-10 runs @  $580, which is pretty darn good.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I was gonna say, leaving out the Audio-GD is criminal.  The NFB-28 would be comparable to the HA-1 since they use the same DAC.  The NFB-10 uses the Wolfson DAC and it's even cheaper.  
  
 The only reason I'm looking to upgrade from the NFB-28 is that I am using R2R DAC's now, so using my NFB-28 as just an amp seems like a waste of money.  Trading it up to the Carbon because... well I don't have to explain that in this thread.  :-D


----------



## money4me247

elwappo99 said:


> That's definitely a good point. The HA-1 is a DAC/AMP while the Carbon is an AMP only. I don't know that unit, so I don't know if it's fair to say 50% of the cost is the amp and 50% is the DAC (but gosh it looks real sharp).
> 
> I'm not sure if I'm following your requirements, but I think the cheapest total balanced set-up is still from Audio-GD. The NFB-10 runs @  $580, which is pretty darn good.
> 
> ...


 
 ahhh no! I appreciate the comment and insight. just pre-emptively making sure my own posting doesn't sound like an attack on the value of other components as that is not my intention at all. sometimes comments about other gear gets misinterpreted negatively. (and yes, I am sure the real component pricing split is not just 50-50, just to simply things in a hypothetical value comparison of an integrated amp/dac combo against a amp/dac pairing).
  
 you bring up a really good point as well! I did totally forget about audio-gd and gustard options that have balanced options at a very affordable pricing. I've been shifting through a bit of personal research myself trying to decide what route to go if trying to play with a balanced option. much more competitive price point than the stuff I've been looking at personally.
  
 thanks for the info!!!


----------



## AustinValentine

stillhart said:


> Yeah, I was gonna say, leaving out the Audio-GD is criminal.  The NFB-28 would be comparable to the HA-1 since they use the same DAC.  The NFB-10 uses the Wolfson DAC and it's even cheaper.


 
  
 This. I picked up a NFB-10SE on the forums to eventually try out with the Carbon. My main setup with it will be built around a modded Sonic Frontiers TransDAC r2r DAC, so this is just something that I picked up to try out. A fully balanced setup based around dual WM8741s could be really nice. (A well implemented WM8741 is by far and away my favorite D-S chip.)
  
 I'm hoping for the Audio-GD's DAC implementation to sound something akin to a balanced AMB Labs Gamma2. I might be expecting too much, especially at this price point, but a man can hope.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > That's definitely a good point. The HA-1 is a DAC/AMP while the Carbon is an AMP only. I don't know that unit, so I don't know if it's fair to say 50% of the cost is the amp and 50% is the DAC (but gosh it looks real sharp).
> ...


 
  
 Yea unfortunately the "all in one" units do save some money at a price. If you upgrade your DAC/AMP you kind of have unused money sitting there. The NFB-28 is such a good value proposition on its own though.


----------



## doctorjazz

As usual, mostly true,but depends on implementation. In theory, when you you get 2 units, you are paying for 2 cases, faceplates, extra interconnects. You can benefit from beefier power supply, better isolation, but a well designed single box can give you shorter signal path. In my main system I have a separate amp (Krell Kea-150), but a dac/preamp/headphone unit (Peachtree GrandPre). I have a separate tube dac (Mojo) that has a bit richer sound than the Peachtree, but it lists for close to what I paid for the Peachtree, and mostly I don't bother with it, connection is a bit finicky, and I just use the Peachtree. Ymmv, if course.


----------



## aqsw

doctorjazz said:


> As usual, mostly true,but depends on implementation. In theory, when you you get 2 units, you are paying for 2 cases, faceplates, extra interconnects. You can benefit from beefier power supply, better isolation, but a well designed single box can give you shorter signal path. In my main system I have a separate amp (Krell Kea-150), but a dac/preamp/headphone unit (Peachtree GrandPre). I have a separate tube dac (Mojo) that has a bit richer sound than the Peachtree, but it lists for close to what I paid for the Peachtree, and mostly I don't bother with it, connection is a bit finicky, and I just use the Peachtree. Ymmv, if course.




Very well said, 

 I just Bought a dac for the carbon that already has an amplifier in it. But, its so sweeeet. Will use it as a stand alone until my LC arrives.
Hegel HD12


----------



## doctorjazz

Hegel seems well regarded, I searched and read a bit on it after someone else mentioned it, curious what you think about it. Congratulations on the new toy, enjoy!


----------



## aqsw

doctorjazz said:


> Hegel seems well regarded, I searched and read a bit on it after someone else mentioned it, curious what you think about it. Congratulations on the new toy, enjoy!




They have never tried the headphone market before. They are usually big $ amp-preamp-dac company for speakers. I think they have been ignored by head-fi for the price. 

That might change soon.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Ok, I'm feeling pretty dumb. Tonight is my last night with the Carbon and the 3 headphones Dr Cavalli sent me.
 I was giving everything a last listen before sending it away when I noticed something that made my head shake. The WyWires balanced cables for the Audeze headphones has the exact same plug used on my Paradox SE cable. I finally got to hear the Paradox via balanced connection tonight.


----------



## cskippy

You should feel lucky that you caught that!  How was it?


----------



## DigitalFreak

cskippy said:


> You should feel lucky that you caught that!  How was it?


 
 pretty darn good. I wish I had more time with the Paradox in balanced. I'm not completely sure but i think the midrange sounded slightly more forward then what I'm used to. Sometimes when the midrange sounds cleaner I mistake it for sounding forward.


----------



## aamefford

During my search for a nice, right sized DAC to use with the liquid carbon, I have run across the Emotiva DC-1.  I point it out, as it's specs state "Pro level output at the balanced output".  This pro level output is +6 dbV.  Is this excessive for the liquid carbon?  In other words, is the gain going to end up being way too high with this level?  I want to avoid running too high of a signal into the amp, and not having enough volume travel to adequately adjust volume on sensitive headphones, or conversely, too low of a signal, and having to crank the volume to near max to get to listenable levels.  Comments appreciated!


----------



## ejong7

Did the Carbon in the shows recently have a muting relay for those who heard it? still interested to know if there is one, or one planned for it in the future.


----------



## MattTCG

If the output level is +6 fixed, then I'd say it's too much.


----------



## aamefford

aamefford said:


> During my search for a nice, right sized DAC to use with the liquid carbon, I have run across the Emotiva DC-1.  I point it out, as it's specs state "Pro level output at the balanced output".  This pro level output is +6 dbV.  Is this excessive for the liquid carbon?  In other words, is the gain going to end up being way too high with this level?  I want to avoid running too high of a signal into the amp, and not having enough volume travel to adequately adjust volume on sensitive headphones, or conversely, too low of a signal, and having to crank the volume to near max to get to listenable levels.  Comments appreciated!


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> If the output level is +6 fixed, then I'd say it's too much.


 

 I found the following calculator:  http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
  
 Doing my best trained monkey imitation (no offense to any trained monkeys in the audience) I see that +6 dbV is essentially 2 vrms.  This is kinda sorta the input voltage standard, isn't it?
  
 Dr. Cavalli - care to weigh in on what would be "reasonable" input levels for the balanced and single ended inputs?


----------



## MattTCG

Occasionally I'd like to have use of my momentum 2 at the desktop for isolation when the house is noisy-busy. Is there any reason why the Carbon would not pair well with this headphone?


----------



## nudd

aamefford said:


> I found the following calculator:  http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
> 
> Doing my best trained monkey imitation (no offense to any trained monkeys in the audience) I see that +6 dbV is essentially 2 vrms.  This is kinda sorta the input voltage standard, isn't it?
> 
> Dr. Cavalli - care to weigh in on what would be "reasonable" input levels for the balanced and single ended inputs?


 
  
 Studio level line out references +4 dbU, so I think that is 1.2 v. +6 dbV would be quite a bit higher than that, so I suspect that it is a bit higher than what would be expected.


----------



## elwappo99

aamefford said:


> During my search for a nice, right sized DAC to use with the liquid carbon, I have run across the Emotiva DC-1.  I point it out, as it's specs state "Pro level output at the balanced output".  This pro level output is +6 dbV.  Is this excessive for the liquid carbon?  In other words, is the gain going to end up being way too high with this level?  I want to avoid running too high of a signal into the amp, and not having enough volume travel to adequately adjust volume on sensitive headphones, or conversely, too low of a signal, and having to crank the volume to near max to get to listenable levels.  Comments appreciated!


 
  
 Emotiva now has a rep on board here. Let's see if this works.....
  
@KeithEmo ?


----------



## stjj89

Does anyone have an opinion on whether the Liquid Carbon would be a good match for the TH900 (running single-ended)?


----------



## DigitalFreak

aamefford said:


> I found the following calculator:  http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
> 
> Doing my best trained monkey imitation (no offense to any trained monkeys in the audience) I see that +6 dbV is essentially 2 vrms.  This is kinda sorta the input voltage standard, isn't it?
> 
> Dr. Cavalli - care to weigh in on what would be "reasonable" input levels for the balanced and single ended inputs?


 
 How about us monkeys who are still in training? We're not just a bunch second bananas bud.


----------



## jjacq

To those who have heard the carbon, do you guys think it'd be something that can contend with the Schiit Mjolnir?


----------



## aarontyson

Having never heard the Schiit Mjolnir, I would think they are very different amps. For one the Mjolnir has more power and probably has a completely different Topolgy. I would think the Cavalli would sound similar or better IMO. Hopefully someone who knows will reply.


----------



## dusk

screw it, just bought one


----------



## mscott58

dusk said:


> screw it, just bought one




Welcome to the club!


----------



## aarontyson

I don't think you will regret it. Only that if you need more power then get the Liquid Crimson or Gold. Even the Ragnarok will be great to own.


----------



## ejong7

dusk said:


> screw it, just bought one


 

 Welcome to the dark side. Please. Have a seat.


----------



## pedalhead

dusk said:


> screw it, just bought one




Good choice! Care to share your order number please?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

dusk said:


> screw it, just bought one


 
  
 A phrase often muttered here at head-fi......
  
 I think we have another confirmed vendor on board too.  @zach915m care to comment?  I would like to know how your Blackwoods sound with this amp...


----------



## Serenitty

ejong7 said:


> Welcome to the dark side. Please. Have a seat. :evil:




We have seats?


----------



## bearFNF

serenitty said:


> We have seats?


 

 Mine is a recliner, feet up chillin'...


----------



## pippen99

bearfnf said:


> Mine is a recliner, feet up chillin'...


 

 Wish I was chillin'.  Dropped $4500 on a new AC unit that won't get installed until Friday!


----------



## ejong7

I'm on an airbed, floating down an air stream as I await my new companion on it.


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> A phrase often muttered here at head-fi......
> 
> I think we have another confirmed vendor on board too.  @zach915m care to comment?  I would like to know how your Blackwoods sound with this amp...


 
  
 I've got Zach's old NFB-28 and we both have Theta's as well.  I think I made the right choice on the LC if he's getting one too... we seem to have similar taste in gear.  lol
  
 One of these days I need to hear one of his headphones...


----------



## dusk

Well, I have heard the Carbon a few times already and love it.   Think it will be the perfect work sized amp.. now I just need to find a balanced DAC for it..


----------



## warrenpchi

dusk said:


> Well, I have heard the Carbon a few times already and love it.   Think it will be the perfect work sized amp.. now I just need to find a balanced DAC for it..


 
  
 Lol funny you should mention that... there's a whole other club just for that:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/


----------



## Ham Sandwich

dusk said:


> Well, I have heard the Carbon a few times already and love it.   Think it will be the perfect work sized amp.. now I just need to find a balanced DAC for it..


 
  
 I'm expecting it to be a great home rig amp as well.  
  
 A main reason I'm looking for a balanced DAC is so I can connect connect my Liquid Fire to the RCA and a Liquid Carbon to the XLR.  I like DACs that have multiple analog outputs.  I'll have a Geek Pulse Xfi soon. Thinking about a Yggy...  A big advantage for the Yggy is that it has two RCA outputs and an XLR so I'll have and excuse to connect three amps to it, among other reasons.


----------



## Serenitty

ham sandwich said:


> I'm expecting it to be a great home rig amp as well.
> 
> A main reason I'm looking for a balanced DAC is so I can connect connect my Liquid Fire to the RCA and a Liquid Carbon to the XLR.  I like DACs that have multiple analog outputs.  I'll have a Geek Pulse Xfi soon. Thinking about a Yggy...  A big advantage for the Yggy is that it has two RCA outputs and an XLR so I'll have and excuse to connect three amps to it, among other reasons.




That would make the Yggdrasil only $766 an amp, which seems like a bargain...


----------



## Poimandres

Well if you could feed the yggy 3 different sources to be played on all 3 different amps.....


----------



## Serenitty

poimandres said:


> Well if you could feed the yggy 3 different sources to be played on all 3 different amps.....


 
  
 I'd say my comment is more of a reference to the little mental justifications I go through to spend the kind of money that I've spent on this gear.  The escalation from the time when I was trying to mentally justify buying a set of TF10's on Amazon and was shocked to see what the Ak100 cost (let alone the Ak120) to now when I recently got an Ak120ii and blind purchased the Liquid Carbon is amazing.
  
 Like we say, "I'm sorry for your wallet"


----------



## SuperU

This amp is VERY tempting.
  
 Maybe someone can help with a few questions.
  
 My headphones are Audeze LCD-X and an Asgard 2 amp. What differences might I notice using the Liquid Carbon instead?
  
 My dac at the moment is a Uber Bifrost. Any idea if that might pair well with the LC?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## aamefford

superu said:


> This amp is VERY tempting.
> 
> Maybe someone can help with a few questions.
> 
> ...


 

 Wow - you have a pretty nice rig right now.  I had this for a while.  I really only let it go because an Oppo HA-1 entered my life at no cost (Gift from Oppo to beta testers - fanboy alert!).  I am considering the Bifrost Uber again for the Liquid Carbon, though I really would prefer balanced out (no reason other than because the LC has balanced in - I have no reason to believe it will sound any better).  Anyway, I think the Asgard2 is kind of an unsung hero.  That said, you might find the LC to be more, ahhh, engaging?  I can't really put my finger on it.  We talked about what the LC does so well at the SF mini meet up last week.  Some of it is the very low noise floor.  Note that it isn't fair for me to draw any really specific conclusions, as I haven't compared the two in the same set up.  I also haven't heard the Asgard2 for quite a while.  If I had your rig, and $600 that I was willing to spend, I'd probably get the LC.  No, I would definitely get it.  I really like it, it can drive headphones wired in balanced mode (I'll offer no opinion as to whether that is better - others may…).  The LC can also drive sensitive balanced armature headphones up to reasonably harder to drive headphones well.  Probably HE6 need not apply though!  If I could, I'd keep the asgard2, and get a Modi or Magni - whichever the dac is, and have a nice rig for the office, or bedside, or whatever.
  
 I hope others that are a bit more eloquent and have had a bit more time with the LC chime in, I'm not sure I helped that much.  I'm pretty much thinking of ditching the HA-1 in favor of a rig built around the LC though.  Or putting the HA-1 into my downstairs speaker rig.


----------



## mscott58

superu said:


> This amp is VERY tempting.
> 
> Maybe someone can help with a few questions.
> 
> ...


 
 There's also a whole other thread purely discussing DACs for the LC. Take a look at: http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
  
 Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

aamefford said:


> ..................... [snip]
> I hope others that are a bit more eloquent and have had a bit more time with the LC chime in, I'm not sure I helped that much.  *I'm pretty much thinking of ditching the HA-1 in favor of a rig built around the LC though*.  Or putting the HA-1 into my downstairs speaker rig.




This is very interesting to hear as I also love the HA-1. I've never heard a Cavalli amp, but from what I've read it might be up my alley for something different.


----------



## DigitalFreak

x relic x said:


> This is very interesting to hear as I also love the HA-1. I've never heard a Cavalli amp, but from what I've read it might be up my alley for something different.


 
 I was in the same boat as you concerning Cavalli. After hearing it for a week I'm not shy to say the Carbon is a wonderful amp for the money. It drove the Audeze LCD X and 3 quite nicely by the way.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> I was in the same boat as you concerning Cavalli. After hearing it for a week I'm not shy to say the Carbon is a wonderful amp for the money. It drove the Audeze LCD X and 3 quite nicely by the way.




You aren't helping me save my money. :veryevil:


----------



## DigitalFreak

x relic x said:


> You aren't helping me save my money.


 
 If I'm gonna wander around broke so is everyone else on this forum.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> If I'm gonna wander around broke so is everyone else on this forum.
> :evil: :veryevil:




The wife gave me the go ahead for the Hugo since I recently purchased the JH Angie. Now I also want the Cavalli LC for my Audeze cans.......... Man, I'm the one holding myself back.............


----------



## hemtmaker

x relic x said:


> The wife gave me the go ahead for the Hugo since I recently purchased the JH Angie. Now I also want the Cavalli LC for my Audeze cans.......... Man, I'm the one holding myself back.............




I feel your pain. But at least the carbon is way cheaper.


----------



## hemtmaker

Has anyone heard the HE1000 with carbon?


----------



## pedalhead

I don't recall if anyone has heard the LC driving HE-560s? Whilst they're not HE-6 levels of hard to drive, I still find a lot of amps can run out of steam with them when listening to particularly dynamic source material. I'm thinking running it balanced out of the LC will be essential, but hopefully sufficient.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

hemtmaker said:


> Has anyone heard the HE1000 with carbon?


 
  
@jude mentioned listening to the pairing in his last CanJam preview video.  But he might be the only one so far.....


----------



## Stillhart

hemtmaker said:


> Has anyone heard the HE1000 with carbon?


 
  
  


pedalhead said:


> I don't recall if anyone has heard the LC driving HE-560s? Whilst they're not HE-6 levels of hard to drive, I still find a lot of amps can run out of steam with them when listening to particularly dynamic source material. I'm thinking running it balanced out of the LC will be essential, but hopefully sufficient.


 
  
 I plan on using my LC with my HE-560... or HE-1000 should that whole thing work out.  On paper, it has plenty of power to drive them.


----------



## pedalhead

stillhart said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah cheers I'm certainly hoping that's the case.  Kinda tempted by the HE-1000 as well assuming it's an extension of the HE-560 sound.  Will find out at CanJam London whether I need to put pretty much everything up for sale


----------



## Stillhart

pedalhead said:


> Yeah cheers I'm certainly hoping that's the case.  Kinda tempted by the HE-1000 as well assuming it's an extension of the HE-560 sound.  Will find out at CanJam London whether I need to put pretty much everything up for sale


 
  
 I heard the HE-1000 both at CES and CanJam SoCal.  It's definitely an amazing sounding headphone.  It's just the price...even if it's worth every penny, that's a lot to spend!


----------



## pedalhead

stillhart said:


> pedalhead said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah cheers I'm certainly hoping that's the case.  Kinda tempted by the HE-1000 as well assuming it's an extension of the HE-560 sound.  Will find out at CanJam London whether I need to put pretty much everything up for sale
> ...


 
  
 True that.  I find it easier to justify such purchases if it's mostly funded by the sale of other toys...swapping old toys for a new, more shiny toy.  I'm not sure my wife sees it quite in the same way though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I just need to stay away from my buddy's Liquid Crimson at our next mini-meet...the Carbon could be the start of a slippery slope if the Crimson is a big step up (which may be part of Alex's idea of course!)


----------



## zaintachik

Hi gents, first time poster long time lurker, I've joined the cavalli lc bandwagon. Oh wow, just started this hobby im getting a top notch gear. I'm truly lucky been hunting for a while a desk top amp and this came up and couldn't resist it. My gear is nothing to shout about, entry level stuff.

Anyways I'm gonna run the lc with hd 700 and my dragonfly in the interim. My top priority is definitely getting a balanced cable for my hd700. And I've narrowed down to moon audio black dragon. I'm not too sure what cables to buy inputs and power cables too, need suggestions on that. And perhaps in the not too distant future thinking of emotiva dc 1 as a proper balanced dac. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Stillhart

zaintachik said:


> Hi gents, first time poster long time lurker, I've joined the cavalli lc bandwagon. Oh wow, just started this hobby im getting a top notch gear. I'm truly lucky been hunting for a while a desk top amp and this came up and couldn't resist it. My gear is nothing to shout about, entry level stuff.
> 
> Anyways I'm gonna run the lc with hd 700 and my dragonfly in the interim. My top priority is definitely getting a balanced cable for my hd700. And I've narrowed down to moon audio black dragon. I'm not too sure what cables to buy inputs and power cables too, need suggestions on that. And perhaps in the not too distant future thinking of emotiva dc 1 as a proper balanced dac.
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMHO, you'd probably get much more noticeable performance putting that cable money into a DAC.  Going balanced will help, for sure, but there is a lot of room for improvement over the Dragonfly.  I'm just talking on an imaginary (% improvement)/($ spent) scale.
  
 Oh, and welcome to Head-fi!  Sorry about your wallet!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

zaintachik said:


> Hi gents, first time poster long time lurker, I've joined the cavalli lc bandwagon. Oh wow, just started this hobby im getting a top notch gear. I'm truly lucky been hunting for a while a desk top amp and this came up and couldn't resist it. My gear is nothing to shout about, entry level stuff.
> 
> Anyways I'm gonna run the lc with hd 700 and my dragonfly in the interim. My top priority is definitely getting a balanced cable for my hd700. And I've narrowed down to moon audio black dragon. I'm not too sure what cables to buy inputs and power cables too, need suggestions on that. And perhaps in the not too distant future thinking of emotiva dc 1 as a proper balanced dac.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> IMHO, you'd probably get much more noticeable performance putting that cable money into a DAC.  Going balanced will help, for sure, but there is a lot of room for improvement over the Dragonfly.  I'm just talking on an imaginary (% improvement)/($ spent) scale.
> 
> Oh, and welcome to Head-fi!  Sorry about your wallet!


 
  
  
 If your HD700 is currently terminated single ended, then I agree with going balanced first.  And look to upgrade you DAC later.  But if you already have your HD700 set for 4 pin XLR, then I would agree with Stillhart.
  
 I'm of the opinion that this amp is at its best, and most powerful, using the balanced output.  I wouldn't make the purchase if I were only using it to half its potential....


----------



## Evshrug

zaintachik said:


> Anyways I'm gonna run the lc with hd 700 and my dragonfly in the interim. My top priority is definitely getting a balanced cable for my hd700. And I've narrowed down to moon audio black dragon. I'm not too sure what cables to buy inputs and power cables too, need suggestions on that. And perhaps in the not too distant future thinking of emotiva dc 1 as a proper balanced dac.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD





Hi Zaintachik,
I would also agree with Stillhart on this one... A balanced setup would be cool one day, but save that for later and benefit more from a DAC upgrade with your current funds. 

Stillhart and I have both owned an HD700 in the past (thick tone yet a treble peak to emphasize details, not a dark headphone), and what MHO will benefit that headphone the most will be a sweet tone with high resolution (to keep treble from sounding brittle/harsh) and low-noise power to control and tighten the bass and mids. What the HD700 doesn't need is extra power... And a balanced connection gives you more power (Dr. Cavelli explained that earlier in the thread).

 A Liquid Carbon single ended connection will give the 150 ohm HD700 plenty of juice. Also, the LC will have the power headroom to handle dynamic changes in the music you feed from a DAC with authority... And thus will really respond to the resolution and quality that your DAC will output. The Dragonfly, especially version 2, isn't bad, but a better DAC will noticeably address muddiness, transparency, separation (which in turn, if you can distinctly separate instruments also affects your sense of room depth/size), and keep those highs sweet, all of which will bring out higher technical quality in the HD700, while a balanced output may make a small improvement power (which the HD700 doesn't require much) and in channel crosstalk. Again, balanced might be nice down the line to maximize your setup, and you'll have that option, but you'll address more points of improvement by having a better DAC than a USB dongle.

I do believe the Liquid Carbon will come with it's own power cable... right?

How do you like using Tapatalk? I usually just visit the head-fi site on Safari (my phone is all I bring with me to work, I don't have an office).


----------



## money4me247

no power cable included


----------



## xuan87

I'll probably go with the cheapest balanced cable I can find for the HD700 and put the rest of the money towards a DAC. Not sure if you can stretch your budget to accommodate a balanced cable and the emotiva DC-1.


----------



## Barry S

Unless you need to rewire the whole headphone, going balanced shouldn't an issue at all. You can reterminate the stock cable with a nice Neutrik 4 pin XLR plug and get all the benefits of the balanced LC for the cost of a sandwich. A cable upgrade is a separate question--but there's no need to choose between putting money into a balanced cable or a DAC.


----------



## Stillhart

barry s said:


> Unless you need to rewire the whole headphone, going balanced shouldn't an issue at all. You can reterminate the stock cable with a nice Neutrik 4 pin XLR plug and get all the benefits of the balanced LC for the cost of a sandwich. A cable upgrade is a separate question--but there's no need to choose between putting money into a balanced cable or a DAC.


 
  
 Well to be fair, if you don't have a soldering station, solder, snips, helping hands, etc already, it's going to cost quite a bit to reterminate that cable.  But if you do have that stuff, soldering a 4-pin XLR is easy mode.


----------



## xuan87

barry s said:


> Unless you need to rewire the whole headphone, going balanced shouldn't an issue at all. You can reterminate the stock cable with a nice Neutrik 4 pin XLR plug and get all the benefits of the balanced LC for the cost of a sandwich. A cable upgrade is a separate question--but there's no need to choose between putting money into a balanced cable or a DAC.


 
  
 Well you do need to choose between a sandwich or a reterminated cable, and if the sandwich is from Potbelly, that's a really hard choice!


----------



## nudd

stillhart said:


> Well to be fair, if you don't have a soldering station, solder, snips, helping hands, etc already, it's going to cost quite a bit to reterminate that cable.  But if you do have that stuff, soldering a 4-pin XLR is easy mode.




Actually people keep saying that and i have a HE500 which is in tge same boat, but ... Once I cut the 1/4 inch jack off, How do i know which pairof wires is the left and which pair is the right for soldering purposes???? And also which one is + and which one is -?

If i get it wrong, wont it meant the channels might be flipped or 180deg out of phase with each other?


----------



## Stillhart

nudd said:


> Actually people keep saying that and i have a HE500 which is in tge same boat, but ... Once I cut the 1/4 inch jack off, How do i know which pairof wires is the left and which pair is the right for soldering purposes???? And also which one is + and which one is -?
> 
> If i get it wrong, wont it meant the channels might be flipped or 180deg out of phase with each other?


 
  
 You use a multimeter to figure out which wire goes where.  That part's easy.
  
 https://robrobinette.com/BalancedCable.htm#Convert_HE-500
  
 Explained very well right here.  This is one of my go-to references for building my cables.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> barry s said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you need to rewire the whole headphone, going balanced shouldn't an issue at all. You can reterminate the stock cable with a nice Neutrik 4 pin XLR plug and get all the benefits of the balanced LC for the cost of a sandwich. A cable upgrade is a separate question--but there's no need to choose between putting money into a balanced cable or a DAC.
> ...


 
  
 You don't really need all that. Just use your bare hands to hold it all


----------



## aarontyson

Also don't forget to buy or make and XLR to 1/4" or 3.5mm cable incase you want to use it in an unbalanced source.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

aarontyson said:


> Also don't forget to buy or make and XLR to 1/4" or 3.5mm cable incase you want to use it in an unbalanced source.


 

 Not required with LC. SE input will have both SE and balanced output


----------



## aarontyson

vhsownsbeta said:


> Not required with LC. SE input will have both SE and balanced output


 
 Understood but if you want to use your headphones in another source/amp thats not the LC and only has SE... You will need an extra cable that goes from XLR to 1/4" or 3.5mm.


----------



## hemtmaker

vhsownsbeta said:


> Not required with LC. SE input will have both SE and balanced output




As far as I know only the RCA single input can have balanced output


----------



## aarontyson

hemtmaker said:


> As far as I know only the RCA single input can have balanced output


 
 I think we are talking about output to headphones and not source inputs.


----------



## hemtmaker

aarontyson said:


> I think we are talking about output to headphones and not source inputs.



Okay... so one can use XLR to headphone in SE mode with carbon?


----------



## aarontyson

hemtmaker said:


> Okay... so one can use XLR to headphone in SE mode with carbon?


 
 With an adapter cable.


----------



## Barry S

stillhart said:


> Well to be fair, if you don't have a soldering station, solder, snips, helping hands, etc already, it's going to cost quite a bit to reterminate that cable.  But if you do have that stuff, soldering a 4-pin XLR is easy mode.


 
  
 I'd be happy to help out people that don't have soldering supplies by reterminating cables for a very nominal cost.
  
  


xuan87 said:


> Well you do need to choose between a sandwich or a reterminated cable, and if the sandwich is from Potbelly, that's a really hard choice!


 
  
 Mmmmmm, Potbelly.


----------



## MattTCG

I'd vouch for Barry. He does good work and often can be bought for beer money


----------



## ksb643

I would be interested!


----------



## Barry S

matttcg said:


> I'd vouch for Barry. He does good work and often can be bought for beer money


 
  
 Thanks Matt! 
  
 Not trying to run a business, but happy to help out fellow head-fiers.


ksb643 said:


> I would be interested!


 
  
 PM me and we can work out the details.


----------



## zerodeefex

Big thumbs up to Barry for his generous offer 

I can't wait to hear more impressions from more familiar gear.


----------



## ksb643

PM sent!


----------



## SuperU

(I posted this in the wrong forum originally and just realized it.)
  
 Ok, I have a question that is plaguing me.
  
 So we have the Liquid Carbon coming out - an SS amp.
  
 How does this compare with the Liquid Gold other than the Gold being 6.5 times more expensive? 
  
 The price difference is considerable. Anyone who knows or has an idea, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
  
 My amp is decent and I really now want an end game amp to go with my LCD-X headphones.
  
 I could financially do either one, but hate to throw money at something beyond what is necessary but also want an end game amp.
  
 One difference is the Gold is MUCH more powerful. Don't know if the LCD-X's would need more than 1.5 watts.
  
 Any ideas on this beyond just the evaluation of the money? I can not easily sell one if I don't need it due to where I am geographically. And don't need 3 amps. Would like this purchase to be my end game purchase (even though a few years from now I may get another. lol)
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## goldendarko

I think in general what you are going to get with a higher end version of a similar amp (like the Gold) is more headroom, better dynamics, better seperation, etc. How much better would be difficult to say without hearing both, but the law of decreasing returns will certainly kick in pretty hard going from something like the Liquid Carbon to Liquid Gold, in other words 6 times the price won't nearly equal 6 times the performance. Especially considering the Carbon is supposedly an extreme value at it's current pricing, and the Gold is, well, very expensive.


----------



## DigitalFreak

goldendarko said:


> I think in general what you are going to get with a higher end version of a similar amp (like the Gold) is more headroom, better dynamics, better seperation, etc. How much better would be difficult to say without hearing both, but the law of decreasing returns will certainly kick in pretty hard going from something like the Liquid Carbon to Liquid Gold, in other words 6 times the price won't nearly equal 6 times the performance. Especially considering the Carbon is supposedly an extreme value at it's current pricing, and the Gold is, well, very expensive.


 
 Good comment, I agree whole heartedly.


----------



## SuperU

goldendarko said:


> I think in general what you are going to get with a higher end version of a similar amp (like the Gold) is more headroom, better dynamics, better seperation, etc. How much better would be difficult to say without hearing both, but the law of decreasing returns will certainly kick in pretty hard going from something like the Liquid Carbon to Liquid Gold, in other words 6 times the price won't nearly equal 6 times the performance. Especially considering the Carbon is supposedly an extreme value at it's current pricing, and the Gold is, well, very expensive.


 
 You know, it's funny... the first headphones I bought were the Mad Dog Pro's from Mr. Speakers for around $450. Then I bought the LCD-X. They cost 3.5 times more. But they sure do not sound 3.5 times better. Now, when I listen to them I hear just how much better the LCD-X is and it is considerably better. Still it is not 350% better.
  
 I'd gladly forego 5% or so for the more than 6 times the Gold costs over the Carbon if that's all I would be missing. And I guess that's my question. I could put the difference I would pay for the amp into a good dac - maybe the Yggy. Maybe I'd be all set.
  
 Just hate to spend another $600 before reaching my end game (probably a mythical concept). 
  
 I do believe getting the LC should be a big step up from my Asgard 2. And I will bet it will be in the same category as the Ragnarok if you take out the extras for driving speakers and just use it for headphones, but I don't know.


----------



## Evshrug

barry s said:


> Unless you need to rewire the whole headphone, going balanced shouldn't an issue at all. You can reterminate the stock cable with a nice Neutrik 4 pin XLR plug and get all the benefits of the balanced LC for the *cost of a sandwich*. A cable upgrade is a separate question--but there's no need to choose between putting money into a balanced cable or a DAC.





matttcg said:


> I'd vouch for Barry. He does good work and often can be bought for beer money



Maybe the work can be bought at the price of a sandwich (and a beer, for cheers!)?




barry s said:


> Mmmmmm, Potbelly.



See?! Perfect asking price!


----------



## Stillhart

superu said:


> You know, it's funny... the first headphones I bought were the Mad Dog Pro's from Mr. Speakers for around $450. Then I bought the LCD-X. They cost 3.5 times more. But they sure do not sound 3.5 times better. Now, when I listen to them I hear just how much better the LCD-X is and it is considerably better. Still it is not 350% times better.
> 
> I'd gladly forego 5% or so for the more than 6 times the Gold costs over the Carbon if that's all I would be missing. And I guess that's my question. I could put the difference I would pay for the amp into a good dac - maybe the Yggy. Maybe I'd be all set.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The biggest issue with the LC as an endgame amp, IMHO, is that it's got a relatively low max power output.  While you certainly don't need more than the LC for your LCD-X, if you ever move up to something significantly harder to drive, you might notice the lack of power.  If you never plan to use another headphone than the LCD-X, I think the LC could be endgame.  But comon... how likely is that?  lol
  
 And while I certainly share the opinion that Getting something that's 6x the cost probably won't give you 6x the utility, there are other Cavalli options besides the LAu that might work as endgame amps.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> superu said:
> 
> 
> > You know, it's funny... the first headphones I bought were the Mad Dog Pro's from Mr. Speakers for around $450. Then I bought the LCD-X. They cost 3.5 times more. But they sure do not sound 3.5 times better. Now, when I listen to them I hear just how much better the LCD-X is and it is considerably better. Still it is not 350% times better.
> ...


 
  
 1.5W is actually pretty powerful. I can only think of a few headphones that won't cover, and if you're buying those headphones you're probably shelling out a lot more on an amp anyway.


----------



## chowmein83

elwappo99 said:


> 1.5W is actually pretty powerful. I can only think of a few headphones that won't cover, and if you're buying those headphones you're probably shelling out a lot more on an amp anyway.


 
  
 I actually agree with this. I think 1.5W is enough to drive most headphones out there well with the exception of something like the HE-6.
  
 Also, I'd bet on headphones getting more efficient in the future, not less. For example, the HE1000 is a heck of a lot more efficient than the HE6, and the HE-560 is more efficient than the HE-500 I believe. Also you have Oppo putting out some pretty efficient headphones, and the Mr. Speakers Ether is pretty efficient too. (Although there's something like the 1200 ohm Audeze headphone coming out sometime in the future...)


goldendarko said:


> I think in general what you are going to get with a higher end version of a similar amp (like the Gold) is more headroom, better dynamics, better seperation, etc. How much better would be difficult to say without hearing both, but the law of decreasing returns will certainly kick in pretty hard going from something like the Liquid Carbon to Liquid Gold, in other words 6 times the price won't nearly equal 6 times the performance. Especially considering the Carbon is supposedly an extreme value at it's current pricing, and the Gold is, well, very expensive.


 


superu said:


> How does this compare with the Liquid Gold other than the Gold being 6.5 times more expensive?


 
  
 I've actually spent a decent amount of time with both (about 45 minutes each with both the LC and LAu in as decent meet conditions as one can get), and I can definitely say that the LAu is definitely not worth the 6x increase in price. Is the LAu better? It is - it's the best headphone amp that I've ever heard. However, from what I remember, the LC and the LAu share a similar sound signature (they both have that magical Cavalli sound that combines detail and warmth that I love), and I would say that with the LC you're getting most of the performance of the LAu, especially with easier-to-drive headphones. The differences between the LC and LAu from what I remember are like what @goldendarko mentioned - somewhat better dynamics, a bit better separation, and somewhat better detail retrieval.


----------



## pedalhead

I've heard mixed reports on comparative ease of driving HE-500 v HE-560 but certainly the 560s can be pretty demanding if you want a full, dynamic presentation. Obviously we're not talking about "volume" here.. I could easily break my ears with 300mw, but similarly I've also had a far higher rated amp run out of puff on particularly dynamic recordings with these headphones. With that in mind, and from specs alone, I personally wouldn't consider driving them SE from the LC...balanced essential (assuming the 1.5w is total balanced output).


----------



## Topspin70

I guess things are a little simpler for me. I've decided the LCD3c will be my end game cans, and from what I've read about the LAu it brings out every last drop of enjoyment I can expect from these cans. So if the LC does 80% as good a job as the LAu I think I can live with that.


----------



## Poimandres

It's nice to know that the LC is very close to the LAU. 

I can hardly wait to hear it. It is hard to imagine that the LC will handily best the Duet sonically. Looking forward to it nonetheless.


----------



## asgeir101

digitalfreak said:


> Good comment, I agree whole heartedly.




@DigitalFreak,

When can we expect your full write up?


----------



## aamefford

asgeir101 said:


> @DigitalFreak,
> 
> When can we expect your full write up?


 
Is it done yet?


Now?


How about now?


----------



## money4me247

chowmein83 said:


> I actually agree with this. I think 1.5W is enough to drive most headphones out there well with the exception of something like the HE-6.
> 
> Also, I'd bet on headphones getting more efficient in the future, not less. For example, the HE1000 is a heck of a lot more efficient than the HE6, and the HE-560 is more efficient than the HE-500 I believe. Also you have Oppo putting out some pretty efficient headphones, and the Mr. Speakers Ether is pretty efficient too. (Although there's something like the 1200 ohm Audeze headphone coming out sometime in the future...)


 
 the 1200 ohm Audeze (rumored to be called the LCD-Z) is supposed to pair with OTL amplifiers anyways, so you are looking at different gear. interesting sidenote on those btw, they were originally supposed to be slotted under the LCD-3 in price point from an official source, but recent rumors suggest that their price point may be even higher than the lcd-3. it's still a prototype model, so pricing is obviously subject to change, but it seems to me that its price point is going to be affected by the recent new planar offerings.
  
 just one thing to note though, apparently one head-fier reported that dr. fang stated that the amplifier on the chord hugo was not ideal for the HE-1000. 

 Power Ratings for the Chord Hugo


> 600 ohms 35mW
> 300 ohms 70mW
> 56 ohms 320mW
> 32 ohms 600mW
> 8 ohms 720mW


 
 http://chordelectronics.co.uk/products-info.asp?id=92


----------



## mscott58

money4me247 said:


> the 1200 ohm Audeze (rumored to be called the LCD-Z) is supposed to pair with OTL amplifiers anyways, so you are looking at different gear. interesting sidenote on those btw, they were originally supposed to be slotted under the LCD-3 in price point from an official source, but recent rumors suggest that their price point may be even higher than the lcd-3. it's still a prototype model, so pricing is obviously subject to change, but it seems to me that its price point is going to be affected by the recent new planar offerings.
> 
> just one thing to note though, apparently one head-fier reported that dr. fang stated that the amplifier on the chord hugo was not ideal for the HE-1000.
> 
> ...




They had the Z prototype on display at RMAF in October. Got to listen to it for a little while and while it was nice it didn't make want to upgrade from my -3's. Cheers


----------



## SuperU

topspin70 said:


> I guess things are a little simpler for me. I've decided the LCD3c will be my end game cans, and from what I've read about the LAu it brings out every last drop of enjoyment I can expect from these cans. So if the LC does 80% as good a job as the LAu I think I can live with that.


 
 This is pretty much the way I feel. 
  
 My end game cans (for now) are the LCD-X. They are amazing. And I have decided to go ahead with the Liquid Carbon to drive them. That will effectively retire my Asgard 2, or put it in the bedroom. 
  
 I have decided that the LC will be my, for now, end game amp. If some day I decide to buy new cans that are harder to drive, then I might choose a new "end game" amp. LOL
  
 Off I go to buy it.


----------



## Poimandres

Let us know your invoice number.


----------



## SuperU

Invoice number - #100000780
  
 I'm excited to jump on the train.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

We're getting close to 400 orders since opening day for ordering the LC....


----------



## x RELIC x

Thoughts on using the HA-1 DAC to the LC?


----------



## Poimandres

You mean 500?


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Thoughts on using the HA-1 DAC to the LC?


 
  
 There are cheaper ways to get a decent Sabre DAC to use with the LC.  You're paying for a lot of bells and whistles with the HA-1, so if you just want the DAC, I think there are more cost-effective routes to go.  That said, if you already have the HA-1, doesn't hurt to try it out and see what you think.  No need to jump into a purchasing decision just yet...


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> There are cheaper ways to get a decent Sabre DAC to use with the LC.  You're paying for a lot of bells and whistles with the HA-1, so if you just want the DAC, I think there are more cost-effective routes to go.  That said, if you already have the HA-1, doesn't hurt to try it out and see what you think.  No need to jump into a purchasing decision just yet...




I already have the HA-1, it's in my sig. Bought it an hour after they released it and I love it. But you know Head Fi, I'm curious about the different signature the LC can bring to the table. The clarity of the HA-1 DAC with the lush sound of the LC sounds interesting. The amp on the HA-1 is very transparent.


----------



## Evshrug

I have had a taste of the electrostatic sound... but for now a mega-awesome Stax (or koss) setup with an upgraded amp is simply waaaay out of my reach. So, for now, I'm playing around in mid-high fi land with different dynamic and planar mag headphones, and I expect the LC to be a wonderfully engaging amp to use until one insane day... Though I hear Cavelli makes eStat amps too! So while the LC may not be my endgame amp in my endgame reference setup, it'll be a great upgrade for now AND I can see it having a place among my gear, forever.

Kinda funny how we still have most of four months left to wait, but we're still slavering at the mouths


----------



## dBel84

x relic x said:


> I already have the HA-1, it's in my sig. Bought it an hour after they released it and I love it. But you know Head Fi, I'm curious about the different signature the LC can bring to the table. The clarity of the HA-1 DAC with the lush sound of the LC sounds interesting. The amp on the HA-1 is very transparent.


 
  
 Just an FYI, the carbon is not lush, imo, it is more resolving than the HA-1. ( yes , I have heard both side by side) I like the versatility of the HA-1 and use it mostly as a preamp . It's headphone stage is solid but does not resolve to the same degree as the Cavalli..dB


----------



## aamefford

dbel84 said:


> Just an FYI, the carbon is not lush, imo, it is more resolving than the HA-1. ( yes , I have heard both side by side) I like the versatility of the HA-1 and use it mostly as a preamp . It's headphone stage is solid but does not resolve to the same degree as the Cavalli..dB



I agree with this. I also have the HA-1. I will likely start with the HA-1 as dac for the Liquid Carbon, unless I run across a nice deal before the LC arrives. For me, the LC is also more "engaging" than the HA-1 amp section. I really wish I could describe "engaging" better. HA-1 is still the best 1 box in the price range that I've heard so far.
Edit - about an hour, off and on, with the LQ in small meet conditions.


----------



## gr8soundz

dbel84 said:


> Just an FYI, the carbon is not lush, imo, it is more resolving than the HA-1. ( yes , I have heard both side by side) I like the versatility of the HA-1 and use it mostly as a preamp . It's headphone stage is solid but does not resolve to the same degree as the Cavalli..dB


 


aamefford said:


> I agree with this. I also have the HA-1. I will likely start with the HA-1 as dac for the Liquid Carbon, unless I run across a nice deal before the LC arrives. For me, the LC is also more "engaging" than the HA-1 amp section. I really wish I could describe "engaging" better. HA-1 is still the best 1 box in the price range that I've heard so far.
> Edit - about an hour, off and on, with the LQ in small meet conditions.


 
  
 Speaking of the HA-1 (I know this is the LC thread; thinking about a dac to pair with it), have either of you heard the iFi Retro 50?
  
 The Retro and HA-1 are both kinda all-in-ones but I'm confident the LC can outdo both their amps. Just wondering how the Retro vs. HA-1 compare in the dac section (single ended as the  Retro doesn't have balanced out like the HA-1 but I think the Retro's tube section operates in preamp mode)?


----------



## aamefford

gr8soundz said:


> Speaking of the HA-1 (I know this is the LC thread; thinking about a dac to pair with it), have either of you heard the iFi Retro 50?
> 
> The Retro and HA-1 are both kinda all-in-ones but I'm confident the LC can outdo both their amps. Just wondering how the Retro vs. HA-1 compare in the dac section (single ended as the  Retro doesn't have balanced out like the HA-1 but I think the Retro's tube section operates in preamp mode)?



^^^ I have not.


----------



## x RELIC x

Thanks for the impressions guys!! Perhaps lush is the wrong word while engaging might be more apt, but to know the LC is more resolving than the HA-1 is very good news. Thanks again.


----------



## goldendarko

I already feel the HA-1 is an incredible value in it's price range, so if the Cavalli can better it's amp section for less money, then that is quite impressive indeed. I will plan on pitting the two against one another when I get the the Carbon as I am currently using the HA-1 as my desktop rig and love it for being a great all around amp and a very good value.


----------



## x RELIC x

Using balanced XLR out of the HA-1 would be perfect to the LC. 

Trigger..... Finger....... Itchy!


----------



## elwappo99

x relic x said:


> Using balanced XLR out of the HA-1 would be perfect to the LC.
> 
> Trigger..... Finger....... Itchy!


 
  
 Lol that upgraditis.
  
  
  
 I think the HA-1 looks stunning, but haven't heard it. One downside to those all-in-one units is that if you're running it to the LC, a good portion of the cost of the HA-1 will go unused (the amp). I think it's one of the reasons Jason @schiit has said they don't make them.


----------



## goldendarko

elwappo99 said:


> Lol that upgraditis.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the HA-1 looks stunning, but haven't heard it. One downside to those all-in-one units is that if you're running it to the LC, a good portion of the cost of the HA-1 will go unused (the amp). I think it's one of the reasons Jason @schiit has said they don't make them.



 


Yeah, I don't think it's a great idea either, especially because the best part of the HA-1 is the amp section, not the DAC section. IMO if you are going to get the Carbon and forgo the all-in-one appeal of the HA-1, you might as well just get a quality but affordable DAC to pair with the Carbon, such as the Arcam irDAC ($699), which together would only be $100 more than the HA-1, so it would still be an excellent value at a similar price but you would be getting a better amp and better DAC though losing the 1 box to rule them all approach. As it is for me, I'm willing to forgo a little bit of sound quality for a cleaner more stylish approach of the HA-1 since this is just my desktop rig, though I did order the Carbon just to compare.


----------



## Stillhart

I've never had a chance to hear the HA-1, tho I was seriously considering it before I got the NFB-28.  Since I now have like 4 DAC's, I was starting to look for standalone amps when the LC came along.  Right place, right time.... well for me and the LC... not so much for me and my beloved NFB-28.


----------



## goldendarko

I think the best thing about the HA-1 is that it's one of those pieces of gears that checks all the boxes. It sounds good, it's priced right, has all the inputs/outputs you could want, plays all the file formats you've got and looks good while doing everything. I think for a lot of people it's as high end as you would ever want or need to go, but since this is Head-Fi we all know that's not usually the case for most of us.


----------



## x RELIC x

Bingo! Exactly my thoughts.


----------



## aamefford

elwappo99 said:


> Lol that upgraditis.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the HA-1 looks stunning, but haven't heard it. One downside to those all-in-one units is that if you're running it to the LC, a good portion of the cost of the HA-1 will go unused (the amp). I think it's one of the reasons Jason @schiit has said they don't make them.



I have an HA-1, so it makes sense to use the dac section. I wouldn't buy an HA-1 just for the dac section. 



goldendarko said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol that upgraditis.
> ...



Only mild disagreement with this one. To me, the dac and amp are evenly matched. Also to me, the dac section competes well against the Bifrost Uber for instance. It boils down to sound signature, and even then only if you have pretty good ears. Still, I would not get the HA-1 as a dac only, unless you want the display and the preamp features, and value fit and finish. Just my opinion, and we all have opinions. Note also, I'm an Oppo beta tester and fanboy.


----------



## elwappo99

aamefford said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol that upgraditis.
> ...


 
  
 Fair enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 My mindset was "purchasing a new DAC" for the Carbon, not necessarily using what you've already got. 
  
 Interesting you mention the Bifrost. A few people have said the Emotiva DC-1 stacks up against the Gungnir


----------



## aamefford

elwappo99 said:


> Fair enough  .
> 
> My mindset was "purchasing a new DAC" for the Carbon, not necessarily using what you've already got.
> 
> Interesting you mention the Bifrost. A few people have said the Emotiva DC-1 stacks up against the Gungnir



In that case, we agree. HA-1 as dac only probably isn't the best purchase unless you need preamp switching functions and bitchin display. I'm real curious about the Emotiva. The published XLR output sounds way too high for most amps though. I'm hoping it is a mistake or that I misunderstood it. It is a nice size.
Edit - I mentioned the Bifrost uber as I had it and the HA-1 at the same time for a couple of weeks, and did a fair amount of switching between the two using the HA-1 amp section and an Asgard 2.


----------



## mscott58

Good deal on a pair of short Cardas GR balanced cables. 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=391140166069


----------



## pedalhead

Personally I'm going for some of these (on UK Amazon). Neutrik XLRs with Van Damme Star Quad cable.  Cheap, reliable and should be as capable as anything (IMO).


----------



## aamefford

These are more my speed:

http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/Product/Details/4767?mainCategoryId=115&categoryId=11509&subCategoryId=1150902&cpnCd=

Edit @pedalhead - those look pretty nice. Schiit offers XLR interconnects as well:

http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables $40 for XLR.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

My power cord arrived yesterday.  I didn't want to pay big bucks for one, so I chose an ebay seller:
  

  
 Now I can stare at it for 3 months or so.....lol
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221681366463?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## bearFNF

buttuglyjeff said:


> My power cord arrived yesterday.  I didn't want to pay big bucks for one, so I chose an ebay seller:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Or you cold hook it up to your computer to start getting it "burned-in"...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (ducks and runs for cover)


----------



## Evshrug

^pretty sure you just narrowly avoided a shoe


----------



## Poimandres

Lol. Here comes the flame war.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh, I didn't look, was the shoe on fire?

And just wondering, the power cable isn't any special connector, right? Cuz I think I can salvage one off my GF's old tower computer from a decade ago (which should be well burned-in!)


----------



## hrq12345

Didn't expect the first 500 is still available. I ordered on the fourth day, and the number was over 600...


----------



## gr8soundz

buttuglyjeff said:


> My power cord arrived yesterday.  I didn't want to pay big bucks for one, so I chose an ebay seller:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a nice looking power cord.......


----------



## mikoss

mscott58 said:


> Good deal on a pair of short Cardas GR balanced cables.
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=391140166069




Shipping is $4000... What? Lol


----------



## kljash

Hopefully it doesn't end til friday, fingers crossed.


----------



## bearFNF

evshrug said:


> ^pretty sure you just narrowly avoided a shoe


 
 I knew I heard something go whistling over my head just then...


----------



## Barry S

I'm ready--got my power cord, too.  The _King Cord KC-003. _
  
*Pros:* Conducts electricity, found in my giant box o' cords and cables, classy moniker.
  
*Cons:*The Rodney Dangerfield of audio power cords.


----------



## bearFNF

hrq12345 said:


> Didn't expect the first 500 is still available. I ordered on the fourth day, and the number was over 600...


 

 The orders started at around xxxxxx396, so IF all the orders were just for the LC (which they are not) it would be around xxxxxx896...


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> My power cord arrived yesterday.  I didn't want to pay big bucks for one, so I chose an ebay seller:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I looked into making my own and just the nice hospital-grade connectors cost $15-20 each.  $50 for one that's already made isn't really that much more than cost, so decent deal.  Hopefully they're using the good wire on the inside too.
  
 I kind of want to start making my own, but it's so pricey per cable and I have too much audio gear that needs it right now... lol  It's not like I can just make one for the LC and call it a day. Oh no, I'm gonna need one for the DAC... well one for EACH DAC, one for the computer, one for the transport, etc.


----------



## DigitalFreak

x relic x said:


> I already have the HA-1, it's in my sig. Bought it an hour after they released it and I love it. But you know Head Fi, I'm curious about the different signature the LC can bring to the table. The clarity of the HA-1 DAC with the lush sound of the LC sounds interesting. The amp on the HA-1 is very transparent.




The Carbon is far from lush.


----------



## hemtmaker

digitalfreak said:


> The Carbon is far from lush.



How would you describe LC's sound signiture then?


----------



## DigitalFreak

Since we're all comparing cables, I've got most of my cable needs nearly squared away. I decided to go with ALOs Green Line cable line. I've got Green line RCA, USB, and balanced headphone cables all waiting to be used once the Carbon arrives. For a power cable I decided to go with Marrow Audios MAP2 (ordered 2 of em, one for the Carbon and one for my WA6) because enough people I trust sware by them. I received shipping notice this past Friday and the MAP2 should be in my hands in a few days. My DAC, the DAC I went with was originally a pipe dream. Luckily I was able to turn that pipe dream into a reality by selling off enough gear to make it affordable. I should be receiving the Chord 2Qute in a few weeks time. I'm still undecided whether I should get a power conditioner. I belive Dr Cavallis statement that the Carbon doesn't need it but I'm wondering if my other gear will. I've even scored a nice table that I'll use exclusively for the new headphone rig. All that's left now is to order a balanced Green Line cable for my Paradox and try and find someone to MOD and recable my K712 into balanced termination. For someone as frugal as me this is really going all out.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> The Carbon is far from lush.




Apologies, lush is the wrong word. I've watched Currawong's video from CanJam when it was posted and didn't mean 'lush' but it's hard to describe my interpretation of what he was saying. Perhaps engaging (as others have noted), dynamic, punchy, fun, vortex of musical orgasm would be more appropriate. Just thinking of trying a better amp since I have owned the HA-1 since its release and am curious what the 'Cavalli Sound' is and how it might pair with the HA-1 Sabre implementation. HA-1 has the balanced out for the LC so why not use it.


----------



## DigitalFreak

hemtmaker said:


> How would you describe LC's sound signiture then?




I'm working on a review on it for Headphone Guru but in a nutshell it's very neutral and dynamic sounding. The amp isn't boring, it draws you into the music by letting the headphones it's driving perform at their best. In short, when ur hearing the music you're hearing the headphone, the amp gets out of the way.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> I'm working on a review on it for Headphone Guru but in a nutshell it's very neutral and dynamic sounding. The amp isn't boring, it draws you into the music by letting the headphones it's driving perform at their best. In short, *when ur hearing the music you're hearing the headphone, the amp gets out of the way.*




Funny as that's exactly what I and many others have said to describe the HA-1 amp section. :blink:


----------



## DigitalFreak

x relic x said:


> Apologies, lush is the wrong word. I've watched Currawong's video from CanJam when it was posted and didn't mean 'lush' but it's hard to describe my interpretation of what he was saying. Perhaps engaging (as others have noted), dynamic, punchy, fun, vortex of musical orgasm would be more appropriate. Just thinking of trying a better amp since I have owned the HA-1 since its release and am curious what the 'Cavalli Sound' is and how it might pair with the HA-1 Sabre implementation. HA-1 has the balanced out for the LC so why not use it.




No worries my friend, I quoted you without seeing what was discussed later down the thread, my apologies. I've never heard the HA-1 but if you already own it and like it then go with that and see if you like the pairing. Why take a chance on buying something else blind and wasting your money if what you already have might work for you. If it doesn't work you're no worse off and no harm no foul.


----------



## DigitalFreak

x relic x said:


> Funny as that's exactly what I and many others have said to describe the HA-1 amp section. :blink:




(Scratches head)
I so have to hear the HA-1 one of these days.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> No worries my friend, I quoted you without seeing what was discussed later down the thread, my apologies. I've never heard the HA-1 but if you already own it and like it then go with that and see if you like the pairing. Why take a chance on buying something else blind and wasting your money if what you already have might work for you. If it doesn't work you're no worse off and no harm no foul.




Haha, because I'm dying to hear what the Liquid Carbon (Cavalli Sound) sounds like, so I _want to take a chance_.
Upgraditis and burning holes in the wallet are in full effect here.

Look forward to your review. Thanks.


----------



## goldendarko

I'll be comparing the HA-1 and LC whenever the LC arrives since I can do a proper AB test with them.


----------



## hemtmaker

digitalfreak said:


> I'm working on a review on it for Headphone Guru but in a nutshell it's very neutral and dynamic sounding. The amp isn't boring, it draws you into the music by letting the headphones it's driving perform at their best. In short, when ur hearing the music you're hearing the headphone, the amp gets out of the way.




Thanks. Looking forward to your review. How does your 2qute pair with the LC? Does it stack nicely (look wise) with it?


----------



## x RELIC x

goldendarko, apologies, I know you've mentioned it before but I assumed you bought a retail unit. Are you going to demo the LC in the short term? Otherwise I'll just need to make the choice to jump in or not.


----------



## DigitalFreak

hemtmaker said:


> Thanks. Looking forward to your review. How does your 2qute pair with the LC? Does it stack nicely (look wise) with it?




No idea, I won't have the 2Qute for a few weeks. The only reason I went for the 2Qute was because in essence it's a stripped down Hugo in a Chordette chassis and enough people have raved about the Carbon with the Hugo. I'm purchasing it blind based on others opinions and Chords good name.


----------



## goldendarko

x relic x said:


> goldendarko, apologies, I know you've mentioned it before but I assumed you bought a retail unit. Are you going to demo the LC in the short term? Otherwise I'll just need to make the choice to jump in or not.


Yup sorry I'll be waiting 4 months for the carbon like the rest so it won't be for a while yet


----------



## MattTCG

Since there has been a good bit of discussion about the HA-1 as it compares to the Carbon, I can share a few thoughts since I've reviewed the HA-1 and recently spent some quality time with the Carbon. 
  
 When I finished reviewing the HA-1, I struggled with whether or not to purchase it. I found that the amp/dac worked and paired well with the hd650 and lcd2 that I owned at the time. But it didn't pair well with my brighter, more neutral hp's like the hd800. With the Oppo, it came down to the DAC for me. I also had the NAD m51 at the time. When using the NAD, the HA-1 (balanced) sounded impressive with the hd800 and was an end game setup. Unfortunately, the wonderful combo of HA-1 and NAD put me into financial nightmare territory, so I passed on the HA-1. 
  
 Compared to the HA-1, the Carbon offers similar performance overall. I preferred the tonality and signature of the Carbon slightly more even when the HA-1 was paired with the NAD...but it was close. The HA-1 has an impressive feature set with each one implemented flawlessly, but offers zero portability. The HA-1 has more headroom to drive more difficult headphones. 
  
 http://headphone.guru/oppo-ha-1/


----------



## money4me247

matttcg said:


> Since there has been a good bit of discussion about the HA-1 as it compares to the Carbon, I can share a few thoughts since I've reviewed the HA-1 and recently spent some quality time with the Carbon.
> 
> When I finished reviewing the HA-1, I struggled with whether or not to purchase it. I found that the amp/dac worked and paired well with the hd650 and lcd2 that I owned at the time. But it didn't pair well with my brighter, more neutral hp's like the hd800. With the Oppo, it came down to the DAC for me. I also had the NAD m51 at the time. When using the NAD, the HA-1 (balanced) sounded impressive with the hd800 and was an end game setup. Unfortunately, the wonderful combo of HA-1 and NAD put me into financial nightmare territory, so I passed on the HA-1.
> 
> ...


 
 this is what I'm talking about. very helpful comparison.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Looks like I'll be getting Emotiva cables. Cheap, relatively good quality, and they don't look bad at all. I'm getting my headphone cables from http://www.bestintheversecables.com/ cause he'll customise your cables with all sorts of different colours. Maybe I'll upgrade my cables in the far future, but I'm pretty sure that until I get the Yggdrasil I won't be able to hear any difference in the quality of copper between components. For now I'm all set and have everything in order for the next few years. I'm not sure if there's really anything else I'm gonna need on the headphone side of things!


----------



## Serenitty

pirakaphile said:


> Looks like I'll be getting Emotiva cables. Cheap, relatively good quality, and they don't look bad at all. I'm getting my headphone cables from http://www.bestintheversecables.com/ cause he'll customise your cables with all sorts of different colours. Maybe I'll upgrade my cables in the far future, but I'm pretty sure that until I get the Yggdrasil I won't be able to hear any difference in the quality of copper between components. For now I'm all set and have everything in order for the next few years. I'm not sure if there's really anything else I'm gonna need on the headphone side of things!


 

 Sounds like he's a Firefly fan...


----------



## Evshrug

serenitty said:


> Sounds like he's a Firefly fan...



Possibly, he has gotten into bar fights on Unification Day, but we won't know for sure till the site offers a Kaylee Special or something.


----------



## aamefford

My interconnects are on the way!


----------



## Pirakaphile

aamefford said:


> My interconnects are on the way!



And here I was thinking you were worthy of our group. Come back with a $350 or more tag on each cable and we will only make fun of your lack of Synthetic Idonymized Partially Regurgizaded Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper Cables every once and a while.


----------



## DigitalFreak

pirakaphile said:


> And here I was thinking you were worthy of our group. Come back with a $350 or more tag on each cable and we will only make fun of your lack of Synthetic Idonymized Partially Regurgizaded Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper Cables every once and a while.


 
 Pffftt, Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper is so 2010. Dual Triple Quad Kick Ninja Gaiden Copper with Unicorn foreskin sheathing is the new standard.


----------



## lukeap69

digitalfreak said:


> Pffftt, Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper is so 2010. Dual Triple Quad Kick Ninja Gaiden Copper with Unicorn foreskin sheathing is the new standard.




Is that silver plater cryo treated?


----------



## aamefford

pirakaphile said:


> And here I was thinking you were worthy of our group. Come back with a $350 or more tag on each cable and we will only make fun of your lack of Synthetic Idonymized Partially Regurgizaded Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper Cables every once and a while.


 
 You like me!  You really really like me! (couldn't resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  


digitalfreak said:


> Pffftt, Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper is so 2010. Dual Triple Quad Kick Ninja Gaiden Copper with Unicorn foreskin sheathing is the new standard.


 
 Mmmmm. foreskin I mean Unicorn!  Never mind…. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


lukeap69 said:


> Is that silver plater cryo treated?


 
 Yes.  Of course.  I'm a boneheadus souffleus - you would expect less?
  
 No, seriously, straight mono price for me.  I was gonna get the Pyst from Schiit, but their product description said something about or go to mono price and save some money.  Plus, I may need the extra length.  (TWSS).  I'm just not a cable guy.
  
 Thank you for the ribbing though - I expected nothing less!  That's kinda why I posted them...


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> Pffftt, Triple Quad Kick Ninja Copper is so 2010. Dual Triple Quad Kick Ninja Gaiden Copper with Unicorn foreskin sheathing is the new standard.



Liquid Ninja. Dibs on copyright. 




aamefford said:


> You like me!  You really really like me! (couldn't resist  )
> 
> Mmmmm. foreskin I mean Unicorn!  Never mind….
> 
> ...



Aamefford: When cheap as Schiit still isn't cheap enough. A new level of poor. 

Also, if you want some of the content before unicorn, we can have an in-depth listening session sometime. ;p


----------



## gr8soundz

aamefford said:


> My interconnects are on the way!


 
  
 Haha....
  
 I just got mine today (for the idsd micro):
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4775&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Stillhart

The only cables I use are ones I made myself or Monoprice.  I see no reason to pay more for a cable yet.  But to be fair, I haven't felt the need to drop huge wads of cash to test the difference for myself either.


----------



## Emerpus

gr8soundz said:


> Haha....
> 
> I just got mine today (for the idsd micro):
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4775&seq=1&format=2


 
  
 Wait ... won't that mess up the signal? Below was what Dr Cavalli mentioned about the SE and XLR inputs. Your SE signal won't get converted to balance inside the LC.
  


runeight said:


> The jacking has gone through several iterations and we are getting close to a final configuration. Please keep in mind that the amp is fairly small and it's not possible to accommodate every single useful jack. There will have be some tradeoffs which try to cover the maximum possible arrangements.
> 
> Input: Standard XLR input (L,R) balanced. 3.5mm and RCA SE. SE is converted to balanced inside the amp. I don't believe you will hear much difference although I always prefer to go balanced in if possible.
> 
> ...


----------



## gr8soundz

emerpus said:


> Wait ... won't that mess up the signal? Below was what Dr Cavalli mentioned about the SE and XLR inputs. Your SE signal won't get converted to balance inside the LC.


 
  
 If you look at the picture, I'll be using the rca outs from the micro (it doesn't have balanced outputs) to the balanced xlr inputs on the carbon.
  
 I believe Dr. C. said having a balanced dac shouldn't make much difference as the Carbon will run in full balanced mode when using the xlr inputs. The half-power issue only results when using the 1/4in SE output in front.
  
 My Ponoplayer should also arrive in a few days and I plan to use its balanced out to the LC. I just need to find the right length cable or adapter. Anyone think a couple of these might work (with the cable below) for the Pono:?
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042902&p_id=7146&seq=1&format=2
  
 or this one:
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042902&p_id=7147&seq=1&format=2


----------



## nudd

I dont see how there could be any benefit to using the rca to balanced connector. Why not just rca to rca?

on the pono, i think you would need a pair of TRS to 3pin XLR to use with the liquid carbon?


----------



## hemtmaker

I think you need to use rca out from iDSD to rca input of LC. Then, you can use balanced out of LC. At the current configuration you are shorting the two grounds together


----------



## nudd

Was there any confirmation as to whether it is okay to use balanced line outs running at 4V into the balanced input of the Liquid Carbon? I just look at the Geek Pulse specs and I believe the balanced outs are around 4V ...


----------



## gr8soundz

nudd said:


> I dont see how there could be any benefit to using the rca to balanced connector. Why not just rca to rca?
> 
> on the pono, i think you would need a pair of TRS to 3pin XLR to use with the liquid carbon?


 
  
 Earlier, I took Dr.C's comments to mean that the balanced ins had to be used for full balanced mode but he recently posted the rca SE inputs have a phase splitter (had already ordered the cables before that post).
  
 Been searching for the TRS to 3-pin xlrs for the pono past couple days (wasn't sure if I needed TS or TRS but I gotta remember the ground). Found a couple online so far (wired according to pono's spec sheet) for around $70 a pair. Hoping to find a less expensive set.
  


hemtmaker said:


> I think you need to use rca out from iDSD to rca input of LC. Then, you can use balanced out of LC. At the current configuration you are shorting the two grounds together


 
  
 Your right. I always forget about the ground (just keep thinking R+/- and L+/-). Haven't opened the cables yet. Will have to see about returning them. Already have a decent set of rca to rca cables that came with the micro.


----------



## hemtmaker

gr8soundz said:


> Earlier, I took Dr.C's comments to mean that the balanced ins had to be used for full balanced mode but he recently posted the rca SE inputs have a phase splitter (had already ordered the cables before that post).
> 
> Been searching for the TRS to 3-pin xlrs for the pono past couple days (wasn't sure if I needed TS or TRS but I gotta remember the ground). Found a couple online so far (wired according to pono's spec sheet) for around $70 a pair. Hoping to find a less expensive set.
> 
> ...



Cool. I was also thinking of buying the IDSD to feed the LC. But I have ordered a pulse infinity (God knows when it will be shipped! )


----------



## pedalhead

hemtmaker said:


> Cool. I was also thinking of buying the IDSD to feed the LC. But I have ordered a pulse infinity (God knows when it will be shipped! )


 
  
 There's quite the gang of Pulse Infinity backers on this thread (myself included)...none of whom are holding our breath I suspect


----------



## Poimandres

Actually the good doctor said this from your post. 

Input: SE is converted to balanced inside the amp. I don't believe you will hear much difference although I always prefer to go balanced in if possible.


----------



## Poimandres

It is nice to know that the Doctor uses a solo though. I will be pairing my dB with the LC. Now if only we had a kobiconn input.....


----------



## runeight

Gents, an adapter cable from RCA to XLR is not suitable for the Carbon because of its amp topology. It will lead to lower performance. It is necessary to go from RCA to RCA to achieve fully balanced operation.


----------



## ejong7

runeight said:


> Gents, an adapter cable from RCA to XLR is not suitable for the Carbon because of its amp topology. It will lead to lower performance. It is necessary to go from RCA to RCA to achieve fully balanced operation.


 

 The master has spoken. What about the muting relay?


----------



## GavThomson

Hello thread,
  
 I've ordered a LC but I'm a little confused about the no-power cable disclaimer....i'm super skeptical about the whole spending a relatively large amount of money compared to the amp on a power cable (USD 150ish), can someone let me know whether is will be needed for the LC?


----------



## ejong7

gavthomson said:


> Hello thread,
> 
> I've ordered a LC but I'm a little confused about the no-power cable disclaimer....i'm super skeptical about the whole spending a relatively large amount of money compared to the amp on a power cable (USD 150ish), can someone let me know whether is will be needed for the LC?


 

 Oh no.......here comes the cable talk/fight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Well just my 2 cents but if you really don't think upgrading power cables will work then it's not really "needed". But if you do or if you have a truck load of cash then it's worth a try I guess?


----------



## Emerpus

gavthomson said:


> Hello thread,
> 
> I've ordered a LC but I'm a little confused about the no-power cable disclaimer....i'm super skeptical about the whole spending a relatively large amount of money compared to the amp on a power cable (USD 150ish), can someone let me know whether is will be needed for the LC?


 
  
 You will need a power cable. If you don't believe in quality power cable making a diff ... just use those from your computer and it will work


----------



## pedalhead

gavthomson said:


> Hello thread,
> 
> I've ordered a LC but I'm a little confused about the no-power cable disclaimer....i'm super skeptical about the whole spending a relatively large amount of money compared to the amp on a power cable (USD 150ish), can someone let me know whether is will be needed for the LC?


 
  
 I think this was covered earlier in the thread, along with power conditioning questions.  Personally, I'll be using one of about a hundred freebie kettle leads I have sat in my cupboard (as I do with all my gear).  But, as with all things audiophile...YMMV.


----------



## aamefford

emerpus said:


> You will need a power cable. If you don't believe in quality power cable making a diff ... just use those from your computer and it will work


 
  
  


pedalhead said:


> I think this was covered earlier in the thread, along with power conditioning questions.  Personally, I'll be using one of about a hundred freebie kettle leads I have sat in my cupboard (as I do with all my gear).  But, as with all things audiophile...YMMV.


 

 Yup.  I'll pull one out of the closet from an old computer or TV or something.  I'm 100% sure enough electricity will get from the power strip / surge protector to the amp.  But then again, these are my XLR interconnect choice....
  
 No, I'm not slamming other's choices for nice cables.  I occasionally have cable envy.  I just don't have the budget to satisfy my cable envy.  I do think the Liquid Carbon is worthy of nice cables if one so desires.


----------



## gr8soundz

gavthomson said:


> Hello thread,
> 
> I've ordered a LC but I'm a little confused about the no-power cable disclaimer....i'm super skeptical about the whole spending a relatively large amount of money compared to the amp on a power cable (USD 150ish), can someone let me know whether is will be needed for the LC?


 
  
 There's no power cable for 2 reasons:
 1. Some will use their own "better" cable anyway.
 2. The Liquid Carbon ships worldwide and Cavalli would have to include the right cable and/or several adapters to ensure it works everywhere. Using a power plug adapter would not be ideal for this type of audio equipment and imagine (instead) if you opened the box and saw 4 different, fully-wired power cables (the extra cost and shipping weight would'nt be worth it).
  
 One of these very inexpensive cables should work well (they have different lengths too; ordered mine from here):
 http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022807


----------



## Pirakaphile

I feel like cables have no effect unless they're either interconnects, internal cables, or cables to the headphone/speaker. USB cables just transfer solid 1's and 0's and power cables can't make the power any better than the crap copper ones in the walls of your house. Once the electricity has been turned into an analog signal through the DAC, then maybe different cables have their own sound, but I'm just making this up based on my opinion.
 I, for one, may end up getting some Cardas interconnects someday just because they look sexy as all get out to me. Otherwise any decent cable that isn't half tin should sound just about as good as any other, just with minor differences in tone or whatever.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> I feel like cables have no effect unless they're either interconnects, internal cables, or cables to the headphone/speaker. USB cables just transfer solid 1's and 0's and power cables can't make the power any better than the crap copper ones in the walls of your house. Once the electricity has been turned into an analog signal through the DAC, then maybe different cables have their own sound, but I'm just making this up based on my opinion.
> I, for one, may end up getting some Cardas interconnects someday just because they look sexy as all get out to me. Otherwise any decent cable that isn't half tin should sound just about as good as any other, just with minor differences in tone or whatever.


 
  
 It's not my intention to get into the cable debate here.  I'll just say that if one would like to debate the relative value of different cables, it would seem to be an important requirement that they've actually HEARD the cables being discussed.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> Gents, an adapter cable from RCA to XLR is not suitable for the Carbon because of its amp topology. It will lead to lower performance. It is necessary to go from RCA to RCA to achieve fully balanced operation.


 
  
 Thanks or clarifying this.
  
 I'll be returning the rca to xlr cables, will use rca to rca for the idsd micro, and will get some 3.5mm to xlr cables for the pono.
  
 Good news is that I should be able to connect both the micro and pono without switching wires.
  
 With that setup, would I be able to do an A/B comparison by switching the SE/bal button in front? Correct me if I'm wrong but, as Dr. C. already confirmed all the front outputs work no matter which input is used, I assume the SE/bal button is for switching the rear inputs.


----------



## joeexp

BTW: Both -  the Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson and the Liquid Glass - have SE inputs only. So I assume Cavalli Audio can be trusted to do a good job implementing SE inputs.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> It's not my intention to get into the cable debate here.  I'll just say that if one would like to debate the relative value of different cables, it would seem to be an important requirement that they've actually HEARD the cables being discussed.



Which is why I haven't mentioned any specific cables. 
I'm just posting my ideas to see if I'm right in any way and to see what about my opinion is wrong. I'm still learning the ropes, since I've been in this hobby only a few years, and the only cables I've actually heard on my rig are PYST so I can't say a cable will make a difference for certain. The main appeal of a cable to me is reliability, good materials, and maybe even looks if it comes down to it. 

I still like Schiit's attitude on cables and I go by that often since they've been in the business for longer thanI've been alive.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Which is why I haven't mentioned any specific cables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well I had my mind blown at CanJam when I compared a $500 Nordost USB cable to a "regular" USB cable (quotes because I think it was still an $80 cable) and there was a blatantly obvious difference that was noticeable even in the bad listening environment there.  
  
 I was saying literally the same things as you over breakfast with @mscott58 and @AxelCloris and Mike from Woo Audio.  USB cables, especially, shouldn't make a difference because 1's and 0's are ones and zeroes, right?  Well, Mike invited me up to his booth to see for myself and so I did.  I'm still mad at him because I'm not interested in spending $500 on a USB cable, but now I know what I'm missing!  lol
  
 Anyhow, not interested in debating cables, as I said.  I'm just suggesting that you should probably try some for yourself; most cable believers also agree that it doesn't make sense on paper but it happens nonetheless.  I have my doubts about power cables, but I don't plan on commenting about it until I've tried some nice ones for myself.  I learned my lesson!  lol


----------



## Pirakaphile

stillhart said:


> Well I had my mind blown at CanJam when I compared a $500 Nordost USB cable to a "regular" USB cable (quotes because I think it was still an $80 cable) and there was a blatantly obvious difference that was noticeable even in the bad listening environment there.
> 
> I was saying literally the same things as you over breakfast with @mscott58 and @AxelCloris and Mike from Woo Audio.  USB cables, especially, shouldn't make a difference because 1's and 0's are ones and zeroes, right?  Well, Mike invited me up to his booth to see for myself and so I did.  I'm still mad at him because I'm not interested in spending $500 on a USB cable, but now I know what I'm missing!  lol
> 
> Anyhow, not interested in debating cables, as I said.  I'm just suggesting that you should probably try some for yourself; most cable believers also agree that it doesn't make sense on paper but it happens nonetheless.  I have my doubts about power cables, but I don't plan on commenting about it until I've tried some nice ones for myself.  I learned my lesson!  lol


 
 Don't you tempt me. I'm already poor enough, so I'm going to make it my mission to avoid spending the last few common cents I have jingling in my pocket!


----------



## runeight

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks or clarifying this.
> 
> I'll be returning the rca to xlr cables, will use rca to rca for the idsd micro, and will get some 3.5mm to xlr cables for the pono.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Right. Input switch on front panel switches the rear inputs. You'll be able to do an A/B between the XLR and SE (either RCA or 3.5mm) inputs.
  
 However (I regret to say) the same issue holds with the 3.5mm to XLR adapter. It won't provide full performance of the amp.
  
 Only way to truly A/B is to have a balanced source and SE source each connected to their respective connectors.


----------



## GavThomson

gr8soundz said:


> There's no power cable for 2 reasons:
> 1. Some will use their own "better" cable anyway.
> 2. The Liquid Carbon ships worldwide and Cavalli would have to include the right cable and/or several adapters to ensure it works everywhere. Using a power plug adapter would not be ideal for this type of audio equipment and imagine (instead) if you opened the box and saw 4 different, fully-wired power cables (the extra cost and shipping weight would'nt be worth it).
> 
> ...




Cheers all, I have just spent a moderate amount of money on moon audio silver moon USB and rca interconnects for my pc > Hugo > LC setup.....so I do buy into a little voodoo, it's the power chord that has me spooked (plus hard to justify to the wife) so wanted opinions. Is there any info if design wise it's vulnerable to power shaping or visa versa?


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> Right. Input switch on front panel switches the rear inputs. You'll be able to do an A/B between the XLR and SE (either RCA or 3.5mm) inputs.
> 
> However (I regret to say) the same issue holds with the 3.5mm to XLR adapter. It won't provide full performance of the amp.
> 
> Only way to truly A/B is to have a balanced source and SE source each connected to their respective connectors.


 
  
 Thanks again.
  
 Guess I'll have to reserve the XLR inputs for future use; perhaps an updated Gungnir (with Yggdrasil tech).
  
 Any idea wether something like the PonoPlayer's balanced out (if better than its SE) would translate to improvements via the Carbon's SE input compared to straight SE to SE?
  
 Also (just curious), would rca to xlr cause any damage?


----------



## nudd

runeight said:


> Right. Input switch on front panel switches the rear inputs. You'll be able to do an A/B between the XLR and SE (either RCA or 3.5mm) inputs.
> 
> However (I regret to say) the same issue holds with the 3.5mm to XLR adapter. It won't provide full performance of the amp.
> 
> Only way to truly A/B is to have a balanced source and SE source each connected to their respective connectors.




As far as i understand it the Pono has true balanced output in the form of 2x 3.5mm TRS ouputs (1 for each channel). Therefore you should be able to connect that into the corresponding balanced 3 Pin XLR inputs of the Carbon. In balanced mode the trs connector presumably would be wired as +, - and separate ground on each channel?

I dont have a Pono myself so can say for sure.

I don't think you could use the same cables for the iDSD because its 3.5 mm cable runs unbalaced and carries both left and right channels in one cable.


----------



## doctorjazz

You are correct about the Pono.


----------



## runeight

That sounds like it would work.


----------



## mscott58

pirakaphile said:


> I feel like cables have no effect unless they're either interconnects, internal cables, or cables to the headphone/speaker. USB cables just transfer solid 1's and 0's and power cables can't make the power any better than the crap copper ones in the walls of your house. Once the electricity has been turned into an analog signal through the DAC, then maybe different cables have their own sound, but I'm just making this up based on my opinion.
> I, for one, may end up getting some Cardas interconnects someday just because they look sexy as all get out to me. Otherwise any decent cable that isn't half tin should sound just about as good as any other, just with minor differences in tone or whatever.




Except USB cables don't really transfer solid 1's or 0's, they transfer a voltage difference that approximates 1's and 0's. In my hands-on comparisons they absolute can make a difference. The only digital cable that transfers "real" binary data is toslink, where the light is either on or off, but they have their own issues in implementation. I'd recommend that people try different USB cables (as well as other IC's and PC's) and see what works for them. Cheers!


----------



## Evshrug

Fascinating. So you're saying, sometimes the voltage differences are misread over USB? I know computers have pretty sophisticated self-error-correction maths, but... Interesting. Also could explain why an ODAC was extremely cable picky a few years back.


----------



## Pirakaphile

mscott58 said:


> Except USB cables don't really transfer solid 1's or 0's, they transfer a voltage difference that approximates 1's and 0's. In my hands-on comparisons they absolute can make a difference. The only digital cable that transfers "real" binary data is toslink, where the light is either on or off, but they have their own issues in implementation. I'd recommend that people try different USB cables (as well as other IC's and PC's) and see what works for them. Cheers!



Sometimes, ignorance is bliss for the pocketbook.


----------



## Stillhart

pirakaphile said:


> Sometimes, ignorance is bliss for the pocketbook.


 
  
 I have found this to be true in many different hobbies.  
  
 Non Head-fi Pro Tip:  don't upgrade your suspension on your motorcycle if you don't want to be forced to spend thousands of dollars doing it to every bike you buy for the rest of your life!  lol


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> Sometimes, ignorance is bliss for the pocketbook.


 
@Pirakaphile, I personally think it is ignorance* that is bad for the pocketbook. The waveform responsible for '0' and '1' do not need to be perfect to ensure perfect reproduction. Think of it as square waves with a very sharp drop-off. That is the entire point of using a binary 'true-false' type system. Binary inherently means that there is only two options available, either 0 or 1. No room for a 0.9 or 1.1. I would be interested in reading a verified source suggesting that there is a discrepancy in the 'quality' of the 0 and 1 being transferred as I have not seen such an article. If the receiving circuit can identify the waveform, the reception of the signal will be, in the end analysis, perfect, regardless if the square waves look different (aka if the voltage difference is variable but still above the threshold). if the receiver misidentifies the digital data (aka digital data was lost), the loss is total and final. This means digital signals exhibit no functional degradation at all up to a certain threshold, but once the 'quality' falls beneath that threshold, there is no signal at all. this means that digital cables meeting the standard of compliance will either work or obviously not work with glaring flaws. There is no in-between. A USB compliant standard ensures that all certified USB cables meet specifications and conform to tested standards for performance. The only physical quality of the cable itself (other being defective) that can affect the performance of a USB cable would be length. for people who think about digital cables differently, their logic would then also apply to a multitude of other digital cables such as HDMI cables.
  


Spoiler: *It is relatively easy to speak scientifically without relating to real-life usage or actual science:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7uykB6wGG4


 
  
 Sources:
 http://www.howtogeek.com/112636/htg-explains-do-you-really-need-expensive-cables/
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level


Spoiler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connector_properties



The host includes 15 kΩ pull-down resistors on each data line. When no device is connected, this pulls both data lines low into the so-called "single-ended zero" state (SE0 in the USB documentation), and indicates a reset or disconnected connection.

A USB device pulls one of the data lines high with a 1.5 kΩ resistor. This overpowers one of the pull-down resistors in the host and leaves the data lines in an idle state called "J". For USB 1.x, the choice of data line indicates of what signal rates the device is capable; full-bandwidth devices pull D+ high, while low-bandwidth devices pull D− high. The "k" state is just the opposite polarity to the "j" state.

USB data is transmitted by toggling the data lines between the J state and the opposite K state. USB encodes data using the NRZI line coding; a 0 bit is transmitted by toggling the data lines from J to K or vice versa, while a 1 bit is transmitted by leaving the data lines as-is. To ensure a minimum density of signal transitions remains in the bitstream, USB uses bit stuffing; an extra 0 bit is inserted into the data stream after any appearance of six consecutive 1 bits. Seven consecutive received 1 bits is always an error. USB 3.0 has introduced additional data transmission encodings.

A USB packet begins with an 8-bit synchronization sequence '00000001'. That is, after the initial idle state J, the data lines toggle KJKJKJKK. The final 1 bit (repeated K state) marks the end of the sync pattern and the beginning of the USB frame. For high bandwidth USB, the packet begins with a 32-bit synchronization sequence.

A USB packet's end, called EOP (end-of-packet), is indicated by the transmitter driving 2 bit times of SE0 (D+ and D− both below max) and 1 bit time of J state. After this, the transmitter ceases to drive the D+/D− lines and the aforementioned pull up resistors hold it in the J (idle) state. Sometimes skew due to hubs can add as much as one bit time before the SE0 of the end of packet. This extra bit can also result in a "bit stuff violation" if the six bits before it in the CRC are '1's. This bit should be ignored by receiver.

A USB bus is reset using a prolonged (10 to 20 milliseconds) SE0 signal.

USB 2.0 devices use a special protocol during reset, called "chirping", to negotiate the high bandwidth mode with the host/hub. A device that is HS capable first connects as an FS device (D+ pulled high), but upon receiving a USB RESET (both D+ and D− driven LOW by host for 10 to 20 ms) it pulls the D− line high, known as chirp K. This indicates to the host that the device is high bandwidth. If the host/hub is also HS capable, it chirps (returns alternating J and K states on D− and D+ lines) letting the device know that the hub operates at high bandwidth. The device has to receive at least three sets of KJ chirps before it changes to high bandwidth terminations and begins high bandwidth signaling. Because USB 3.0 uses wiring separate and additional to that used by USB 2.0 and USB 1.x, such bandwidth negotiation is not required.

Clock tolerance is 480.00 Mbit/s ±500 ppm, 12.000 Mbit/s ±2500 ppm, 1.50 Mbit/s ±15000 ppm.

Though high bandwidth devices are commonly referred to as "USB 2.0" and advertised as "up to 480 Mbit/s", not all USB 2.0 devices are high bandwidth. The USB-IF certifies devices and provides licenses to use special marketing logos for either "basic bandwidth" (low and full) or high bandwidth after passing a compliance test and paying a licensing fee. All devices are tested according to the latest specification, so recently compliant low bandwidth devices are also 2.0 devices.

USB 3 uses tinned copper stranded AWG-28 cables with 90±7 Ω impedance for its high-speed differential pairs and linear feedback shift registerand 8b/10b encoding sent with a voltage of 1 V nominal with a 100 mV receiver threshold; the receiver uses equalization.[size=11.1999998092651px][127] SSC clock and300 ppm precision is used. Packet headers are protected with CRC-16, while data payload is protected with CRC-32.[size=11.1999998092651px][128][/size] Power up to 3.6 W may be used. One unit load in superspeed mode is equal to 150 mA.[size=11.1999998092651px][128][/size][/size]



​
Example of a Negative Acknowledge packet transmitted by USB 1.1 full-speed device when there is no more data to read. It consists of the following fields: clock synchronization byte, type of packet and end of packet. Data packets would have more information between the type of packet and end of packet.

 


 http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4376143/1/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio
 http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil
 http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/truth-about-expensive-hdmi-cables
 http://www3.eng.cam.ac.uk/DesignOffice/mdp/electric_web/Digital/DIGI_14.html
  
 regardless of how I feel about the subject, I recommend simply doing your own research or trying it for yourself rather than relying on other people's opinions (including my own) without reading up on background sources. not looking to start a debate or argument. (though if someone wants to privately discuss, feel free to PM me).
  
 edit: ymmv, feel free to disagree (though preferably with an independent source)


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> snip


 
  
 Have you actually heard an expensive USB cable?  Just curious if your research included empirical testing.


----------



## money4me247

stillhart said:


> Have you actually heard an expensive USB cable?  Just curious if your research included empirical testing.


 
 yes, blinded side-by-side direct testing. I could not tell the difference, but I know we all have different ears, so ymmv.
  
 edit: I know it is rude to tell others what they can or cannot hear, so that is totally not my intention. I am simply relaying why the subtle variations in voltage difference should not make a difference in audio quality for USB cables from a scientific point of view.


----------



## Pirakaphile

money4me247 said:


> @Pirakaphile, I personally think it is ignorance* that is bad for the pocketbook. The waveform responsible for '0' and '1' do not need to be perfect to ensure perfect reproduction. Think of it as square waves with a very sharp drop-off. That is the entire point of using a binary 'true-false' type system. Binary inherently means that there is only two options available, either 0 or 1. No room for a 0.9 or 1.1. I would be interested in reading a verified source suggesting that there is a discrepancy in the 'quality' of the 0 and 1 being transferred as I have not seen such an article. If the receiving circuit can identify the waveform, the reception of the signal will be, in the end analysis, perfect, regardless if the square waves look different (aka if the voltage difference is variable but still above the threshold). if the receiver misidentifies the digital data (aka digital data was lost), the loss is total and final. This means digital signals exhibit no functional degradation at all up to a certain threshold, but once the 'quality' falls beneath that threshold, there is no signal at all. this means that digital cables meeting the standard of compliance will either work or obviously not work with glaring flaws. There is no in-between. A USB compliant standard ensures that all certified USB cables meet specifications and conform to tested standards for performance. The only physical quality of the cable itself (other being defective) that can affect the performance of a USB cable would be length. for people who think about digital cables differently, their logic would then also apply to a multitude of other digital cables such as HDMI cables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I personally disagree with you despite not having any sources or personal experience. 
 But yeah, that's what I was thinking in the first place. If all the cable is doing is giving a positive or negative charge, anything to a point should get the exact same output so long as the electricity is above or at the threshold of the device being fed the signal. When it comes to analog, that's when I think changes in cable might be present, though it's just a thought.


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> yes, blinded side-by-side direct testing. I could not tell the difference, but I know we all have different ears, so ymmv.
> 
> edit: I know it is rude to tell others what they can or cannot hear, so that is totally not my intention. I am simply relaying why the subtle variations in voltage difference should not make a difference in audio quality for USB cables from a scientific point of view.


 
  
 No, I get it, it's fine.  I thought the difference was rather obvious and swapped back and forth several times with several tracks.  I don't know WHY there's a variation, but clearly, to me and others, there are.  I agree that it doesn't seem to make sense on paper, but my ears say otherwise.  Since I have literally no training in electronics, I can't even begin to propose a theory on why the change was there, but it was.  And like I said, it wasn't subtle.
  
 YMMV.  :-D


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> I personally disagree with you despite not having any sources or personal experience.
> But yeah, that's what I was thinking in the first place. If all the cable is doing is giving a positive or negative charge, anything to a point should get the exact same output so long as the electricity is above or at the threshold of the device being fed the signal. When it comes to analog, that's when I think changes in cable might be present, though it's just a thought.


 
@Pirakaphile & @Stillhart to be clear my post is only about digital USB cables. To be additionally clear, I am not saying that people don't hear differences between cables. I am saying that those differences cannot be due to what the previous poster stated. very different position.


----------



## joeexp

I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables. 
 This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.


----------



## ejong7

joeexp said:


> I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables.
> This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.


 

 Is it time to create a separate cable thread for the Carbon? We already did with the DACs. But then again this place will become bare so no. Don't leave.


----------



## SuperU

money4me247 said:


> @Pirakaphile, I personally think it is ignorance* that is bad for the pocketbook. The waveform responsible for '0' and '1' do not need to be perfect to ensure perfect reproduction. Think of it as square waves with a very sharp drop-off. That is the entire point of using a binary 'true-false' type system. Binary inherently means that there is only two options available, either 0 or 1. No room for a 0.9 or 1.1. I would be interested in reading a verified source suggesting that there is a discrepancy in the 'quality' of the 0 and 1 being transferred as I have not seen such an article. If the receiving circuit can identify the waveform, the reception of the signal will be, in the end analysis, perfect, regardless if the square waves look different (aka if the voltage difference is variable but still above the threshold). if the receiver misidentifies the digital data (aka digital data was lost), the loss is total and final. This means digital signals exhibit no functional degradation at all up to a certain threshold, but once the 'quality' falls beneath that threshold, there is no signal at all. this means that digital cables meeting the standard of compliance will either work or obviously not work with glaring flaws. There is no in-between. A USB compliant standard ensures that all certified USB cables meet specifications and conform to tested standards for performance. The only physical quality of the cable itself (other being defective) that can affect the performance of a USB cable would be length. for people who think about digital cables differently, their logic would then also apply to a multitude of other digital cables such as HDMI cables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +100


----------



## Stillhart

joeexp said:


> I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables.
> This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.


 
  
 Agreed, my apologies for letting myself get drawn into the discussion.


----------



## Poimandres

In the end it is all about what makes us feel better, is it not? I tried really hard to make myself believe that I perceived a difference between my Ultraviolet usb cable and the cable that came with my device.

I'll let you know if I can hear any differences in a quality power cable versus the one that comes with my pc power supply.


----------



## money4me247

joeexp said:


> I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables.
> This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.


 
 there are multiple entire threads dedicated on USB cables, and yes, I agree cable debates are indeed quite old. that is why I was reluctant to response to the original post as I do not want this thread to turn into a cable debate. I just do not believe that the specific posting really matches with the current understanding of how usb works, so I just wanted to provide some background information for those who are interested. I am open to critical feedback as well if you found an error within my post. I think that is the best way for the community to learn and grow. (feel free to PM me privately anytime)
  
 I do want to state again that I have no desire to engage in any debate on whether an individual hears a difference with different cables or not. I realize my personal experiences with cables is a personal subjective experience, and that others may have different experiences. If you hear a difference with your cables, I believe you and if you like your cables, I am totally cool and respect your opinions. I hope that my own personal experiences not hearing a difference is cool and respected as well. The posting was simply to clear up an factual explanation error for the benefit of everyone (including cable enthusiasts). It was NOT meant to prove or disprove whether an individual hears a difference in cables! I also am not trying to take this thread off-topic from Dr. C's new amplifier. 
  
 There will be a lot of people posting a lot of very different personal experiences with different cables and components paired with Liquid Carbon, and I look forward to reading all of it.  cheers!


----------



## Insidious Meme

joeexp said:


> I am sure there is an entire thread dedicated to USB cables.
> This  - frankly  - is getting a bit old.



You can come back in say.. 3 months when the first ones are delivered.


----------



## joeexp

insidious meme said:


> You can come back in say.. 3 months when the first ones are delivered.


 

 I hope the good Dr.  keeps to his time schedule.  
 My order # is early 400. 
  
 3 months and counting.


----------



## doctorjazz

It's it still 3 months? Seems like years have passed since the order!


----------



## Barry S

doctorjazz said:


> It's it still 3 months? Seems like years have passed since the order!


 

 I'm not sure I'd count on any date until we get an update from Alex Cavalli. He mentioned that 200 units was the minimum he needed to go forward with the LC, but it's not clear if he's placed the parts orders or is waiting to hit a magic number of orders. Then there are the usual issues with ramping up production.


----------



## bugula

buttuglyjeff said:


> My power cord arrived yesterday.  I didn't want to pay big bucks for one, so I chose an ebay seller:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 nice choice. 
  
 i've become fond of ELA for my mains, interconnects, headphone cables, and now IEM cables.


----------



## zaintachik

bugula said:


> nice choice.
> 
> i've become fond of ELA for my mains, interconnects, headphone cables, and now IEM cables.



 


How's the performance, if you dont mind me asking. They do look extremely good value. Initially for my balanced cable i was thinking of Moon Audio but they're just crazy expensive. I doubt my ears can discern any difference.


----------



## bugula

zaintachik said:


> bugula said:
> 
> 
> > nice choice.
> ...


 
 honestly i'm not a cable guy - i can hear differences in some headphone cables but that's about it so i didn't want to break the bank but wanted something that was sturdier than what i'd find at amazon. so i'm incredibly thrilled with what i've bought and i'll continue to buy but other than "they don't make my stuff sound like poo," i can't give you a better sonic review.


----------



## GavThomson

hi,
  
 Does anyone know how the LC compares to some of the other more 'transportable' amps like the bcl or graham slee solo or even the hugos amp section?  I bought this because i was mulling the LAu and it seemed like a little less overkill but now i'm thinking there is already a good marketplace for amps in this region!?  I know it's not been released yet so reviews are few and far between and we are all in hype mode but a few comparisons on similar scale and price amps would be good.
  
 cheers


----------



## jjacq

I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some input. Would you buy a Schiit Mjolnir or this...? I will be using an LCD-X which works good with a Mjolnir and probably with this too.


----------



## Stillhart

jjacq said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some input. Would you buy a Schiit Mjolnir or this...? I will be using an LCD-X which works good with a Mjolnir and probably with this too.


 
  
 This is maybe not the best place for an unbiased answer.  Obviously I'd buy the LC, and I have. The LCD-X is relatively easy to drive and they both have plenty of power for the task.  Schiit has a reputation for making gear that sounds good for the money; Cavalli has a reputation for making gear that sounds good.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jjacq said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some input. Would you buy a Schiit Mjolnir or this...? I will be using an LCD-X which works good with a Mjolnir and probably with this too.


 
  
 I did have a very pleasant audition with the Mjolnir and the LCD-2.2, a very robust combination.  So it wouldn't be a bad choice.  But most here have already preordered the Liquid Carbon, so if you want some bias you came to the right spot...
  
 With that said, I would want to hold off on the Mjolnir and see if it gets any trickle down upgrades.  Ususlly when Schiit releases a new flagship (ie the Ragnarok) the others get some performance bumps.
  
 I currently feel the LC right now is the better value at $599, but I think you wouldn't be too far off with either...


----------



## jjacq

buttuglyjeff said:


> I did have a very pleasant audition with the Mjolnir and the LCD-2.2, a very robust combination.  So it wouldn't be a bad choice.  But most here have already preordered the Liquid Carbon, so if you want some bias you came to the right spot...
> 
> With that said, I would want to hold off on the Mjolnir and see if it gets any trickle down upgrades.  Ususlly when Schiit releases a new flagship (ie the Ragnarok) the others get some performance bumps.
> 
> I currently feel the LC right now is the better value at $599, but I think you wouldn't be too far off with either...


 
  
 Thanks, I will definitely wait and see on what Schiit might offer for the Mjolnir and screw it I'm gonna preorder it early next week. I was holding off because I wanted to get an R2R dac like a Reference 10.32(which has an amp already) from Audio-gd but I got a vintage one instead to try out. Thanks. Sorry for the nonsensical question!


----------



## Stillhart

jjacq said:


> Thanks, I will definitely wait and see on what Schiit might offer for the Mjolnir and screw it I'm gonna preorder it early next week. I was holding off because I wanted to get an R2R dac like a Reference 10.32(which has an amp already) from Audio-gd but I got a vintage one instead to try out. Thanks. Sorry for the nonsensical question!


 
  
 Which vintage DAC did you get?


----------



## jjacq

stillhart said:


> Which vintage DAC did you get?


 

 Adcom GDA-700. There's some mixed reviews out there, some people swear by them some people are not convinced. I got it for like $300 which was my budget for a DAC so I just went ahead with it. We'll see.


----------



## Stillhart

jjacq said:


> Adcom GDA-700. There's some mixed reviews out there, some people swear by them some people are not convinced. I got it for like $300 which was my budget for a DAC so I just went ahead with it. We'll see.


 
  
 I have a GDA-600 that I plan on upgrading soon.  It sounds wonderful, but it's a little congested and the upgrades are supposed to resolve that.  Supposedly you can use similar upgrades on the 700, but not having heard one, I don't know whether it's necessary.  The 700 is balanced so I expect that helps open up the soundstage by quite a bit.  Also it uses a different DAC chip (PCM1702 IIRC) so that may also affect the sound.
  
 Anyways, looking forward to your impressions.  There's a thread discussing DAC choices for the Liquid Carbon and your feedback in that thread might be appreciated.


----------



## jjacq

stillhart said:


> I have a GDA-600 that I plan on upgrading soon.  It sounds wonderful, but it's a little congested and the upgrades are supposed to resolve that.  Supposedly you can use similar upgrades on the 700, but not having heard one, I don't know whether it's necessary.  The 700 is balanced so I expect that helps open up the soundstage by quite a bit.  Also it uses a different DAC chip (PCM1702 IIRC) so that may also affect the sound.
> 
> Anyways, looking forward to your impressions.  There's a thread discussing DAC choices for the Liquid Carbon and your feedback in that thread might be appreciated.


 
  
 Thanks, what are you upgrading to?


----------



## Stillhart

jjacq said:


> Thanks, what are you upgrading to?


 
  
 Oh I meant I'm upgrading the 600 itself.  I'll be upgrading some of the caps and the opamps.  Feel free to shoot me a PM for more info if you like; I don't want to derail this thread further.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I think i'm going through Liquid Carbon withdrawal?!?!?! The months can't go by fast enough for me.


----------



## goldendarko

Hey at least you've had enough of it to have withdrawals, most of us haven't even heard the thing yet!


----------



## hemtmaker

digitalfreak said:


> I think i'm going through Liquid Carbon withdrawal?!?!?! The months can't go by fast enough for me.



At least you have will have the 2qute soon to play with, along with all your other amps while waiting


----------



## DigitalFreak

Yeah, it should be interesting to see how my amps react to the better DAC. I'm starting to shed my extra gear off though. I plan to get rid of my other two garage1217 amps once my other gear is sold off. I'm surprised my ALO RX MKIII-B amp hasn't sold yet.


----------



## jjacq

Is there any possibility that the final version would include line out like RCA or XLR with variable volume control ><... Kinda sad that I can't use it with my monitor speakers at its current state.


----------



## asgeir101

jjacq said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some input. Would you buy a Schiit Mjolnir or this...? I will be using an LCD-X which works good with a Mjolnir and probably with this too.




I haven't heard the LC myself, but a good friend I trust said the following: the Schiit Mjolnir is slightly softer with more power whereas the LC is very transparent with upstream gear, slightly more energetic and has better tonal balance. YMMV.

I own the Schiit Mjolnir and really like it with my LCD-2.2 However I have decided to take the plunge into Cavalli territory to see what the fuzz is about


----------



## vhsownsbeta

jjacq said:


> Is there any possibility that the final version would include line out like RCA or XLR with variable volume control ><... Kinda sad that I can't use it with my monitor speakers at its current state.




No. It is a HPA only.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
  
 First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
  
 One good side, however, is that the startup and shutdown transients are fairly low. I measured them on the pre-production board (which is not the proto board that has been in the amps at shows).
  
 Start up transient less less than +500mV on the upswing and basically zero on the negative swing. This is both on and off.
  
 Also, you can hot switch the gain (like in the larger amps). The blip when you go from 1x to 3x is no more than 400mV and from 3x to 1x it's about 200mV. For most conditions, you won't hear this much. Although sensitive IEMs are indeed a different game.
  
 I wanted to talk about power output too. I've been holding back on you guys on the power output of the amp. Only a little though.
  
 I've spec'd the amp a 1.5W continuous into 50R. In fact, it will do about 2.8W continuous into 50R.
  
 Now, keep in mind that 1.5W and especially 2,8W is a lot of power. I don't know any headphones where this won't ring your bell and in most headphones it would be damaging.
  
 However, what you really need the power for is, as you all know, the transients. Most of the time you're listening at fairly low power levels, but when the music creates a strong transient you need the amp to be able to respond.
  
 The Carbon can respond with much more power than 1.5W. Also, we measured about .04% THD with 1kHz in driving 47.5R at 2.8W.
  
 Now, you may be wondering can you use all of that 2.8W. And the answer is, if we were talking about sine waves, no. This is because the Carbon is so small that is has limited power dissipation capacity. This is really why I originally said 1.5W. Because this safe.
  
 However, if the 2.8W only comes into play when you need it, the PD capacity is good enough.
  
 So, you're getting a bigger amp than you thought.


----------



## goldendarko

runeight said:


> So, you're getting a bigger amp than you thought.


 
 I'd say so, 1.5 W vs. 2.8 W is quite significant, especially if someone is planning on driving something like the HE-6 with the LC. Great News!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

goldendarko said:


> I'd say so, 1.5 W vs. 2.8 W is quite significant, especially if someone is planning on driving something like the HE-6 with the LC. Great News!


 
  
 Well, I wouldn't bet the house on the HE-6, but this might be great with the T1...


----------



## Serenitty

runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...




So does this mean it's going to be a good amps for HE-6's?


----------



## runeight

HE6 are tough buggers to drive. I think you'll get good results maybe good enough results for you to be happy, but you won't get what the Liquid Gold will do with them.


----------



## cskippy

That is music to my ears!  Or Should I say, it will be music to my ears.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm currently using a Project Ember to drive my He-6 and am quite happy with the volume around 10 o'clock.  Can't wait!


----------



## runeight

Here's some porn of the pre production board. This one has the switch indicator LEDs with light pipes below the switches. And the additional PS circuitry to reduce noise from the SE jack. Other than this, it's the same as the proto.
  
  
  

  

  
  
 The bottom pic has the switches pressed in.


----------



## jexby

have read some early impressions about the superb tonality of the LC amp.
  
 Can anyone (with HE-560/planars) at the shows/meet comment on the LC soundstage or any "tube like" qualities of this SS amp?
  
 thanks,


----------



## ejong7

runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...


 

 Do you recommend leaving the headphones in the jack? If it's low enough that is.


----------



## runeight

I think for most planars and dynamic headphones the transients will not be harmful.
  
 I don't know for IEMs and anyone who uses IEMs should think about it.
  
 BTW, I forget mention in that post that these transients are at each output. If you're plugged into the balanced out the transient will be much lower since it is commode mode to both outputs of each channel. Probably 100mV or less.


----------



## ejong7

runeight said:


> I think for most planars and dynamic headphones the transients will not be harmful.
> 
> I don't know for IEMs and anyone who uses IEMs should think about it.
> 
> BTW, I forget mention in that post that these transients are at each output. If you're plugged into the balanced out the transient will be much lower since it is commode mode to both outputs of each channel. Probably 100mV or less.


 

 Fair enough. I don't think I'll leave my IEMs in but I'm just wary for cause I'm used to leaving my headphones plugged in.


----------



## Beolab

So it is a litle weak for the HE-6 then? 

Have anyone had a listening with the HE-6 and the LC yet? 

OT
PS Alex

I have order a LC for 1 mounth ago, but i have not have a confirmation email that i have payed or got a order nr? 

Its that because i live outside the US ? 

You can make me a PM if you want. 

/ Fredrik Lindqvist


----------



## runeight

Yes we have it. Along with the confirmation email that copies to us. Check your ISP spam filters. This has been the common issue when folks have not received their email.


----------



## runeight

beolab said:


> So it is a litle weak for the HE-6 then?
> 
> Have anyone had a listening with the HE-6 and the LC yet?
> 
> OT


 
  
 I wouldn't necessarily say that. It might do pretty well. But, HE6 does suck power so it won't do the same as an amp like the LAu with 3 times the power.


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Here's some porn of the pre production board. This one has the switch indicator LEDs with light pipes below the switches. And the additional PS circuitry to reduce noise from the SE jack. Other than this, it's the same as the proto.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Maybe post a pic with the rest of the components in there as well?


----------



## goldendarko

runeight said:


> HE6 are tough buggers to drive. I think you'll get good results maybe good enough results for you to be happy, but you won't get what the Liquid Gold will do with them.



 


Fair point, but I will rest easier knowing they should have no problem with the HE1000's I'm getting, wasn't quite sure if 1.5W would do it but 2.8W should be no problem.


----------



## nudd

runeight said:


> I wouldn't necessarily say that. It might do pretty well. But, HE6 does suck power so it won't do the same as an amp like the LAu with 3 times the power.




Would you able to comment also on whether around 4v input voltage on the balanced inputs is okay. The reason is that some DACs like I think the Emotiva and the Geek Pulse X are quoting 4v (3.8v in the case of the Pulse) at the balanced outputs.


----------



## runeight

Good question. Since the amp has a unity gain mode it has to be able to reproduce whatever is put into it until it hits the rails.
  
 When we measured 2.8W it was in unity gain mode. IIRC, 2.8W was about 12V RMS or about 17V peak. In order to get 12V RMS out we were putting a little more than that in (because the gain is slightly less than 1X because it's a follower in this mode).
  
 Anything less than this in 1X mode should not be a problem for the amp. And then do the proportions for 3X mode.


----------



## nudd

runeight said:


> Good question. Since the amp has a unity gain mode it has to be able to reproduce whatever is put into it until it hits the rails.
> 
> When we measured 2.8W it was in unity gain mode. IIRC, 2.8W was about 12V RMS or about 17V peak. In order to get 12V RMS out we were putting a little more than that in (because the gain is slightly less than 1X because it's a follower in this mode).
> 
> Anything less than this in 1X mode should not be a problem for the amp. And then do the proportions for 3X mode.


 
 that's excellent thanks for letting us know!


----------



## kljash

So I have an audio gd nfb-1 that outputs 5v, so I should only use it in 1x mode? Sorry I realize you already answered that but I'm not a very technical person.


----------



## PATB

Does the liquid carbon going to have enough power to adequately drive an HD650, HD800, and RS1?  To be honest, the main thing that is holding me back is the front XLR connector; all of my balanced headphones have the old dual XLR connectors.


----------



## nudd

kljash said:


> So I have an audio gd nfb-1 that outputs 5v, so I should only use it in 1x mode? Sorry I realize you already answered that but I'm not a very technical person.


 
  
 I think it depends on how much power your headphone needs. 5vrms into the 1x gain will give you close to 5vrms at the output. But from the sounds of it 5V rms x 3 will be more than the max of 12vrms that Dr C was saying was what the LC is designed to run at, so you should not turn the gain dial more than 3/4 of the way up when using the 3x gain mode (assuming my useless math is correct).
  
 And assuming the music is recorded or mastered so that it is loud.


----------



## cskippy

patb said:


> Does the liquid carbon going to have enough power to adequately drive an HD650, HD800, and RS1?  To be honest, the main thing that is holding me back is the front XLR connector; all of my balanced headphones have the old dual XLR connectors.


 
 You should get an adapter made from dual 3pin XLR to 4pin XLR.  4pin XLR is pretty much the standard, unless you are using monoblocks, in which case you are already set!


----------



## Beolab

So i have a Hugo with 6 v max output if i turn up the volume, and 2,2 v output in line mode, what gain mode should i set my LC for put out 2,8 watt?


----------



## LFC_SL

patb said:


> Does the liquid carbon going to have enough power to adequately drive an HD650, HD800, and RS1?  To be honest, the main thing that is holding me back is the front XLR connector; all of my balanced headphones have the old dual XLR connectors.



Get an adaptor? Most new Dac/amps will use 4-pin xlr for the headphone out. Which is why I notice when someone uses the old dual xlr (chord)


----------



## Poimandres

Why isn't the input XLR a four pin? I realize most outputs are the dual 3 pin however an adapter could easily be made and it would allow for a kobiconn balanced input.


----------



## joeexp

poimandres said:


> Why isn't the input XLR a four pin? I realize most outputs are the dual 3 pin however an adapter could easily be made and it would allow for a kobiconn balanced input.


 

 Because 3 pin XLR is the standard for interconnecting equipment


----------



## rollinbr

patb said:


> Does the liquid carbon going to have enough power to adequately drive an HD650, HD800, and RS1?  To be honest, the main thing that is holding me back is the front XLR connector; all of my balanced headphones have the old dual XLR connectors.


 
 You want something like this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cardas-4-Pin-Balanced-Female-XLR-To-Dual-3-Pin-Male-XLR-Adapter-/191574198753?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9ab649e1


----------



## joeexp

runeight said:


> The Carbon can respond with much more power than 1.5W. Also, we measured about .04% THD with 1kHz in driving 47.5R at 2.8W.


 
  
 0.04% THD is this quite a lot higher then the 0.0015%@3W into 33R, the Liquid Gold has.
  
 What effect has this on SQ?
  
 Or perhaps the 2.8W is an extreme value that you probably never reach under normal  listening conditions.
  
 Audeze says on there website about their headphones: THD < 1% …..


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

joeexp said:


> 0.04% THD is this quite a lot higher then the 0.0015%@3W into 33R, the Liquid Gold has.
> 
> What effect had this on SQ?


From what I've read, under 1% distortion is practically impossible to detect audibly. It doesn't really matter anyway, since the driver distortion of any headphone will be magnitudes higher than that. Other factors matter much more. Also, I don't think there's any headphone that will need that amount of power output that the measurements were taken... even the HE-6 (K1000 I'm not sure about ).


----------



## Poimandres

joeexp said:


> Because 3 pin XLR is the standard for interconnecting equipment




Time to be on the forefront of a new standard.


----------



## ejong7

toddthemetalgod said:


> From what I've read, under 1% distortion is practically impossible to detect audibly. It doesn't really matter anyway, since the driver distortion of any headphone will be magnitudes higher than that. Other factors matter much more. Also, I don't think there's any headphone that will need that amount of power output that the measurements were taken... even the HE-6 (K1000 I'm not sure about
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When has it been about real detectability on headfi? Its all about the numbers.


----------



## runeight

joeexp said:


> 0.04% THD is this quite a lot higher then the 0.0015%@3W into 33R, the Liquid Gold has.
> 
> What effect has this on SQ?
> 
> ...




From cell on flight to LA.

Not an equal comparison. LAu is loafing at 3W. Carbon is just about to hit the rails. THD is pretty good for that condition. 

Don't think you'll be listening at that power often.

Better way to view this MHO is that Carbon has a lot of reserve power for such a small linear amp. 

In its sweet spot THD is quite low.


----------



## Beolab

runeight said:


> From cell on flight to LA.
> 
> Not an equal comparison. LAu is loafing at 3W. Carbon is just about to hit the rails. THD is pretty good for that condition.
> 
> ...




In comparison with Senniheiser HDVD8000 listening to last week with a pairs of HD800 cans and i think it hit the seeling to fast. 

So are the LC more powerful than the HDVD8000 ? 

Do anyone have the spec:


----------



## joeexp

For the Sennheiser HDVD800:
  
  Max. output power:  approx. 480 mW @ 1 kHz and 600R load at the XLR-4 output
  Power consumption: nom. 9 W (2x 300R headphones connected to the XLR-4 outputs)


----------



## Beolab

joeexp said:


> For the Sennheiser HDVD800:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So Alex, what are the ouput for the Carbon @ 600Ohms is it equal to the HDVD800 in power spec? 

Because you could only listened to medium high volume.


----------



## jjacq

After a million questions, I finally preordered. Looking forward to pair this with the LCD-X!


----------



## kljash

nudd said:


> I think it depends on how much power your headphone needs. 5vrms into the 1x gain will give you close to 5vrms at the output. But from the sounds of it 5V rms x 3 will be more than the max of 12vrms that Dr C was saying was what the LC is designed to run at, so you should not turn the gain dial more than 3/4 of the way up when using the 3x gain mode (assuming my useless math is correct).
> 
> And assuming the music is recorded or mastered so that it is loud.


 
 Thank you.


----------



## Beolab

Would be very intresting to hear the power difference and SQ performance in reality, btw Carbon vs Crimson ?! 

Do we have anyone who have got the oppertunity to tried them out in comparison yet?


----------



## runeight

beolab said:


> So Alex, what are the ouput for the Carbon @ 600Ohms is it equal to the HDVD800 in power spec?
> 
> Because you could only listened to medium high volume.


 
  
 So far as I know HD800 are 300 ohms. The Carbon at max power is 17V peak. If I do the RMS power calculation 17 * 17 / (2 * 300) = 481mW continuous power from the balanced output. Does Sennheiser spec the RMS power or the peak power?? There will be much lower power dissipation with HD800s so the Carbon should be happy driving them.


----------



## longbowbbs

beolab said:


> Would be very intresting to hear the power difference and SQ performance in reality, btw Carbon vs Crimson ?!
> 
> Do we have anyone who have got the oppertunity to tried them out in comparison yet?


 
 Crimson has more than twice the power.


----------



## Beolab

runeight said:


> So far as I know HD800 are 300 ohms. The Carbon at max power is 17V peak. If I do the RMS power calculation 17 * 17 / (2 * 300) = 481mW continuous power from the balanced output. Does Sennheiser spec the RMS power or the peak power?? There will be much lower power dissipation with HD800s so the Carbon should be happy driving them.




Thas for your fast anwear and calculation  

I thaught when you played with the HDVD800 amp the sound where breaking up and where very doll , and lacked a great of power. 

But HDVD800 amp most have like 1,5 watt att 50R also , so it is pretty equal in power with LC , but the LC have a bigger power reservoir (2.8 watt) , so it must be a better amp


----------



## Beolab

longbowbbs said:


> Crimson has more than twice the power.




Yes i know but in a direct comparison watt are not all on a paper, it would be intresting to here from one whio have tested both of them.


----------



## longbowbbs

I have....The Crimson is clearly more powerful. They are both wonderful. One is transportable the other is a killer desktop device. If I could have only one, it would be the Crimson.


----------



## DigitalFreak

jjacq said:


> After a million questions, I finally preordered. Looking forward to pair this with the LCD-X!


 
 You won't be disappointed


----------



## maeveth

Just ordered one to go with some HE-1000s


----------



## doctorjazz

Looks like I'll be using the LC/HE-1000 combo as well, congrats!


----------



## mikoss

I have a feeling this thing will be sold out before August. The price point and performance make it a no-brainer for me. Also, the last couple of posts by Dr. Cavalli shed some light as to just how powerful and capable it will be for driving our exotic toys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm excited.


----------



## hemtmaker

longbowbbs said:


> I have....The Crimson is clearly more powerful. They are both wonderful. One is transportable the other is a killer desktop device. If I could have only one, it would be the Crimson.



you also ordered a LC Eric?


----------



## longbowbbs

hemtmaker said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have....The Crimson is clearly more powerful. They are both wonderful. One is transportable the other is a killer desktop device. If I could have only one, it would be the Crimson.
> ...


 
 I have not. There is a limit to how many amps you can use!  I am very impressed with the LC though. Alex has a strong lineup and this provides a very high value option.


----------



## Beolab

longbowbbs said:


> I have....The Crimson is clearly more powerful. They are both wonderful. One is transportable the other is a killer desktop device. If I could have only one, it would be the Crimson.




Have you compared the Carbon vs Crimson or are you just leaning on the specs?


----------



## longbowbbs

beolab said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I have....The Crimson is clearly more powerful. They are both wonderful. One is transportable the other is a killer desktop device. If I could have only one, it would be the Crimson.
> ...


 
 I reviewed the Crimson for Headphone.guru. Check out my sig line. At the time I was reviewing the Crimson there were only two units in existence. I also spent time with both at CanJam in March. I really like the LC. It is an awesome value. However, it is not at the Crimson or Gold's level. This is not a surprise given the cost difference as well as power.


----------



## Beolab

longbowbbs said:


> I reviewed the Crimson for Headphone.guru. Check out my sig line. At the time I was reviewing the Crimson there were only two units in existence. I also spent time with both at CanJam in March. I really like the LC. It is an awesome value. However, it is not at the Crimson or Gold's level. This is not a surprise given the cost difference as well as power.




Okey, can you describe the diffrence in sound? 
Do the LC lack of base or dynamics or what is your impressions in more detail? 

And the leap btw Crimson and Gold are as big as btw Carbon vs Crimson or?


----------



## longbowbbs

beolab said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I reviewed the Crimson for Headphone.guru. Check out my sig line. At the time I was reviewing the Crimson there were only two units in existence. I also spent time with both at CanJam in March. I really like the LC. It is an awesome value. However, it is not at the Crimson or Gold's level. This is not a surprise given the cost difference as well as power.
> ...


 
 First, the Carbon is a terrific amp and will put pressure on a lot of $1k+ amps given its quality. It is bested by the Crimson IMO in dynamic's. The Crimson's increased power reserves gives it an ability to manage music with large scale presentation. Orchestral, Metal, music with a lot of power faired better with the extra reserves from the Crimson. I did not find big differences with Folk or intimate Jazz as these tend to require finesse and both amps had that in spades. The LAu takes the power up to another level but would likely be most useful for less efficient headphones. For example, the Abyss 1266 and the HE-6 can both be driven effortlessly from the LAu while taking the Crimson to its limits. The LC would not be a good match for those headphones. If you are not using them, then there will be a lot of sonic similarity between all three. The Crimson and LAu will have higher quality internals that a higher price tag allows for so there are some additional sonic advantages to be squeezed out with higher end cans. I like all three very much. The Crimson is my favorite simply because of its bang for the buck status in my own head. YMMV.


----------



## nudd

Also if using iems I doubt the Crimson or greater powered amp with give you any benefit whatsoever
 Even the crimson starts with 4x gain and no unity gain mode so there would be no travel at all for your volume pot with sensitive iems.

I am a sucker for iems and only have big can (HE500) so for my use case the Carbon is better.


----------



## Beolab

longbowbbs said:


> First, the Carbon is a terrific amp and will put pressure on a lot of $1k+ amps given its quality. It is bested by the Crimson IMO in dynamic's. The Crimson's increased power reserves gives it an ability to manage music with large scale presentation. Orchestral, Metal, music with a lot of power faired better with the extra reserves from the Crimson. I did not find big differences with Folk or intimate Jazz as these tend to require finesse and both amps had that in spades. The LAu takes the power up to another level but would likely be most useful for less efficient headphones. For example, the Abyss 1266 and the HE-6 can both be driven effortlessly from the LAu while taking the Crimson to its limits. The LC would not be a good match for those headphones. If you are not using them, then there will be a lot of sonic similarity between all three. The Crimson and LAu will have higher quality internals that a higher price tag allows for so there are some additional sonic advantages to be squeezed out with higher end cans. I like all three very much. The Crimson is my favorite simply because of its bang for the buck status in my own head. YMMV.




Thanks for your detailed answer! 

Unfortunately i have the Abyss AB-1266 and have placed an order on the Carbon, just because of the convenient size and price. 

And i know i should order a Gold, but my thaughts go like; it will have like 4,5 times greater power than my current Hugo that have 320mW @47 Ohm, but im struggle with my wallet if i should buy a Rolex Submariner or a Crimson. But eaven if i buy the Crimson it will bottom out with my abyss maybe, so i need the Gold probably;(

Hard task


----------



## Stillhart

beolab said:


> Thanks for your detailed answer!
> 
> Unfortunately i have the Abyss AB-1266 and have placed an order on the Carbon, just because of the convenient size and price.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well if you think of it in terms of actual functionality, the LAu will give you what the LC can't:  enough power to drive your Abyss.  The Rolex is a very overrated watch, functionally speaking.  An Orient Mako will keep time better.   So with one purchase you're getting more than just a status symbol, you're getting added utility.
  
 EDIT - BTW, very tongue in cheek post, in case it wasn't clear.  Enjoy your Rolex if that's the way you decide to go.


----------



## flatmap

Oh I don't know.  I wear my Orient Mako just about everyday and for sure it is a nice watch.
 Notwithstanding, the Rolex Submariner is just a very fine thing, indeed.


----------



## money4me247

uh oh... hopefully, a watch discussion doesn't derail this thread like the old he1k thread =P


----------



## Stratos24

money4me247 said:


> uh oh... hopefully, a watch discussion doesn't derail this thread like the old he1k thread =P


 

 We'll take some _time to watch _and see. . .


----------



## aamefford

stratos24 said:


> We'll take some _time to watch_ and see. . .



That was a timely pun…


----------



## longbowbbs

beolab said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > First, the Carbon is a terrific amp and will put pressure on a lot of $1k+ amps given its quality. It is bested by the Crimson IMO in dynamic's. The Crimson's increased power reserves gives it an ability to manage music with large scale presentation. Orchestral, Metal, music with a lot of power faired better with the extra reserves from the Crimson. I did not find big differences with Folk or intimate Jazz as these tend to require finesse and both amps had that in spades. The LAu takes the power up to another level but would likely be most useful for less efficient headphones. For example, the Abyss 1266 and the HE-6 can both be driven effortlessly from the LAu while taking the Crimson to its limits. The LC would not be a good match for those headphones. If you are not using them, then there will be a lot of sonic similarity between all three. The Crimson and LAu will have higher quality internals that a higher price tag allows for so there are some additional sonic advantages to be squeezed out with higher end cans. I like all three very much. The Crimson is my favorite simply because of its bang for the buck status in my own head. YMMV.
> ...


 
 I actually prefer the President....


----------



## money4me247

aamefford said:


> That was a timely pun…


 
 hopefully, we don't _tick_ off any mods in the process =P


----------



## mscott58

longbowbbs said:


> I actually prefer the President....


 
 Don't get me started on watches my friends!


----------



## longbowbbs

mscott58 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I actually prefer the President....
> ...


 
 You only need one really nice one...


----------



## goldendarko

money4me247 said:


> hopefully, we don't _tick_ off any mods in the process =P



 


We certainly wouln't want to wind them up


----------



## money4me247

longbowbbs said:


> You only need one really nice one...


 
 same could be said about audio equipment though... and I think many of us here are guilty of owning multiple pairs of headphones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 heh


----------



## longbowbbs

money4me247 said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > You only need one really nice one...
> ...


 
 I think I resemble that comment....


----------



## Stillhart

There's a whole watch-fi thread for those interested.  Watch lovers _band_ together there.


----------



## maeveth

This is quite a _movement_


----------



## Evshrug

money4me247 said:


> uh oh... hopefully, a watch discussion doesn't derail this thread like the old he1k thread =P



The old HE1K thread did get quite alarming but I don't think things will get out of hand this time, since Alex made the preorder details crystal-clear.

I'm not very good with puns though, you guys'll need to give me a second.

Uh... Umm... The Liquid Carbon will take the _crown_ as my best headphone amp?


----------



## Beolab

evshrug said:


> The old HE1K thread did get quite alarming but I don't think things will get out of hand this time, since Alex made the preorder details crystal-clear.
> 
> I'm not very good with puns though, you guys'll need to give me a second.
> 
> Uh... Umm... The Liquid Carbon will take the _crown_ as my best headphone amp?




Hehe a small watch-debate 

So if i place a order on the crimson it could not handle the Abyss perfect?


----------



## HeyWaj10

I see watch you did there...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

This is what happens when you fill a thread with dads.
  
 Let us Pun-tificate...


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> There's a whole watch-fi thread for those interested.  Watch lovers _band_ together there.



By the second .


----------



## pedalhead

Dragging this thread kicking & screaming back on topic (actually not really)...
  
 Did you know that *Liquid Carbon *is in fact almost impossible to create in a stable form?  At least here on earth.  Apparently, it can exist only in environments of extremely high temperatures and pressures, such as those found in the cores of gas giants like Uranus and Neptune. Hmm.
  
 On the other hand, one of Cavalli's other amps -  *Liquid Lightning* - well that's easy...


----------



## longbowbbs

beolab said:


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > The old HE1K thread did get quite alarming but I don't think things will get out of hand this time, since Alex made the preorder details crystal-clear.
> ...


 
 Hmm.....It is right at the edge. It will totally depend on your listening level preferences. Sound quality is good (I am not a huge Abyss fan FWIW). If the power is enough for you I am sure you will like the pairing.


----------



## Evshrug

buttuglyjeff said:


> This is what happens when you fill a thread with dads.
> 
> Let us Pun-tificate...



Or when you frequently check the current time/date against estimates for when the new gear will be released.

Sadly, no children here 
But thanks for reminding me about Father's Day!


----------



## doctorjazz

Yeah, this is the fate of gear that won't be in general circulation for months, something has to fill the vacuum!


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Yeah, this is the fate of gear that won't be in general circulation for months, something has to fill the vacuum!


 
  
 Speaking of Father's Day, I fill my vacuum with cheerios and goldfish, generally.  o.O


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Speaking of Father's Day, I fill my vacuum with cheerios and goldfish, generally.  o.O


 
  
  
 Hopefully the cracker type....
  
 With that said, I'm quite happy with how Alex pops in from time to time so we at least feel a little in the loop.
  
 My last preorder experience was with Michael Goodman, and the HiFi-M8 was a much longer process.  But he had a blog for us to follow, so that helped fill the time


----------



## Evshrug

Yes, speculation and off topic meanderings are a vicious cyclone I've seen on many pre-launch threads. We will also see people trying to comb the threads and clean up the foreign debris, and those who simply state that waiting sucks!

Chronology of a pre-release thread:
•Manufacture alerts the community of upcoming product
•the time is set for preorder and release
•The lucky few chime-in on their pre-production demo impressions.
•The early birds synchronize a frenzied spending attack on the preorder launch.
•Anxious buyers set their clocks to countdown to release day.
•Prospective buyers and community members ask questions in the hopes of ticking the boxes off of system requirements and benefit desires.
•Manufacturer periodically resets customer's clocks by answering questions and sharing juicy details, possibly photos of the skeleton of their product.
•the last two bullet points cycle again and again, though some people make speculations that are only right twice a day.
•Production and anticipation wind up in correlation as time advances close to release.
•Time's-up! The preorder peeps tend to write ringing endorsements while on the other hand those who did not preorder read lap after lap of reviews.
•After a honeymoon hype period, conversation hits the snooze button till those who waited for first reviews make their orders and confirm the initial impressions.

(Okay I'm done, I had to kill time waiting for someone to finish lunch.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> Speaking of Father's Day, I fill my vacuum with cheerios and goldfish, generally.  o.O


 

 I just spit on myself, and came very close to wetting my pants!  I still have tears in my eyes...


----------



## jjacq

So guys what headphones are you planning to pair the Carbon with? Also I wonder if anyone has heard the HD800 + Carbon mix yet.


----------



## Stillhart

jjacq said:


> So guys what headphones are you planning to pair the Carbon with? Also I wonder if anyone has heard the HD800 + Carbon mix yet.


 
  
 I have an HE-560 as my main rig right now, but I may be upgrading to a HE-1000 or Dharma this year.  We shall see...


----------



## Mr Rick

jjacq said:


> So guys what headphones are you planning to pair the Carbon with? Also I wonder if anyone has heard the HD800 + Carbon mix yet.


 
 Balanced...HD650 and HD800.  OE.......DT880/600,  Q701 QJ,  K712 Pro, X2s.


----------



## lramirez1959

I ordered my LC today and in the process of deciding on a new pair of high end headphones:
 Aether, LCD-X, HD-800, Dharma - Wonder what would be the best match for the LC ?


----------



## Serenitty

I'll be starting with my T1's, but plan on an Ether or maybe some form of LCD....


----------



## pippen99

Will start out with current LCD-2f but plan to move up to LCD-X.  I heard the Ether on the LC at the Nashville meet.  Very nice!


----------



## lramirez1959

serenitty said:


> I'll be starting with my T1's, but plan on an Ether or maybe some form of LCD....


 
 T1, another potential marriage in heaven...
 I have one doubt: the dharmas, being hybrid electrostatic, would be match-able with the LC ?


----------



## Stillhart

lramirez1959 said:


> T1, another potential marriage in heaven...
> I have one doubt: the dharmas, being hybrid electrostatic, would be match-able with the LC ?


 
  
 The Dharmas don't need a special amp, they'll run off normal amps.


----------



## ksb643

jjacq said:


> So guys what headphones are you planning to pair the Carbon with? Also I wonder if anyone has heard the HD800 + Carbon mix yet.


 
 PS 1000


----------



## lramirez1959

stillhart said:


> lramirez1959 said:
> 
> 
> > T1, another potential marriage in heaven...
> ...


 
 Thanks for the prompt clarification.


----------



## doctorjazz

Hopefully, the HE-1000.


----------



## SuperU

jjacq said:


> So guys what headphones are you planning to pair the Carbon with? Also I wonder if anyone has heard the HD800 + Carbon mix yet.


 
 LCD-X


----------



## mscott58

jjacq said:


> So guys what headphones are you planning to pair the Carbon with? Also I wonder if anyone has heard the HD800 + Carbon mix yet.


 
 LCD-3F's. Already paired them with the LC at CanJam SoCal and it was great. Also tried the LC with my Noble K10's and it was also solid. Cheers


----------



## runeight

Hello gents, if any of you are going to the Newport show, we'll only have one table and it's only going to show the Carbon and the portable (still without battery ATM but very good progress).
  
 We should have LCD3, LCDX, Ether (courtesy of Mr. Speakers) and HE1000 (courtesy of HiFiMan).
  
 If you're there, bring you own headphones too.


----------



## sathyam

I am planning to use the LC at work with my TH900, Layla, Ref.1 Too.


----------



## jjacq

Oh man! Someone post impressions of the HE-1000 x Carbon when they can. That'll be interesting.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sure, when the LC comes...


----------



## maeveth

jjacq said:


> Oh man! Someone post impressions of the HE-1000 x Carbon when they can. That'll be interesting.


 
 I plan to once both arrive!


----------



## xuan87

Did anyone mention Ether + LC? 
  
 After my LC arrives, I plan to bring it down to an audio shop and test drive the pairing with the Ether.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Wow, I wish I was pairing the LC with all those top tier headphones already mentioned...
  
 I already have my HD650's and Lawton modded TH600s balanced.  Now I need to decide on a balanced cable for my MDR-Z7.


----------



## Stillhart

xuan87 said:


> Did anyone mention Ether + LC?
> 
> After my LC arrives, I plan to bring it down to an audio shop and test drive the pairing with the Ether.



Many of the impressions from CanJam, including mine, were using the Ether.


----------



## lramirez1959

stillhart said:


> xuan87 said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone mention Ether + LC?
> ...


 
 Went to the tarot lady and told me: I see aether in your future...


----------



## lramirez1959

Would de Shunyata Venom 3 15amp be a good option for the LC I wonder....


----------



## kljash

Order placed. Now the wait


----------



## Utopia

I haven't been able to really pinpoint the sound signature of the Carbon from the impressions so far. It doesn't seem to be for instance warm like a V200 or bright like a Mjolnir (useful characteristics with cans that have the opposite signature). Is there a Cavalli "house sound" that the Carbon shares with its bigger siblings?


----------



## joeexp

utopia said:


> Is there a Cavalli "house sound" that the Carbon shares with its bigger siblings?


 
  Is the pope a catholic?


----------



## Dannek

utopia said:


> I haven't been able to really pinpoint the sound signature of the Carbon from the impressions so far. It doesn't seem to be for instance warm like a V200 or bright like a Mjolnir (useful characteristics with cans that have the opposite signature). Is there a Cavalli "house sound" that the Carbon shares with its bigger siblings?


 

 Although I haven't had the pleasure of hearing the LC yet, after reading the many posts from the SoCal Can Jam meet and the Nashville meet concerning the LC, it seemed that the amp was often described, when paired with the ethers at least, as being very musical and having a high quality soundstage presentation.
  
 I didn't gather that the LC was either very warm or very bright, and being new to the head fi world I haven't experienced enough headphones to know which style I like better, or perhaps lean toward.  The reason I pre-ordered the LC was because I know that I will really enjoy products that have a great musical quality, and also present a high quality soundstage.  From what I've read, this is what the LC seems to excel at...


----------



## money4me247

lol I am still really not quite sure what a "musical-sounding" piece of gear means. or "musical monitor" or "musical but neutral." I kinda think everything that plays music wld be musical ya? lol.

those terms were thrown around recently quite a lot... specifically for the liquid cavalli and mr speaker ether. So I ordered both to see what people really mean by that phrase hahah.


----------



## chowmein83

I would describe the sound signature of the LC as neutral, but with enough of a touch of added warmth to really give the sound that extra bit of weightiness that makes everything sound so right.
  
 I think "musical but neutral" would be a good way to describe what I just said.


----------



## money4me247

chowmein83 said:


> I would describe the sound signature of the LC as neutral, but with enough of a touch of added warmth to really give the sound that extra bit of weightiness that makes everything sound so right. I think "musical but neutral" would be a good way to describe what I just said.


 
@chowmein83, have you heard the Lyr 2 before? that is kind of what I think of when I read your description of neutral with a touch of additional warmth on an amplifier. looking forward for hearing equipment described as 'musical but neutral' for myself.


----------



## aamefford

money4me247 said:


> @chowmein83
> , have you heard the Lyr 2 before? that is kind of what I think of when I read your description of neutral with a touch of additional warmth on an amplifier. looking forward for hearing equipment described as 'musical but neutral' for myself.



Not to the degree of a lyr for me. Good, neutral amp that comes from a deep dark background. Has an engaging quality that I can't really define. It is not colored to me. A lyr is kind of euphoric to me. A bit colored in a nice way.


----------



## chowmein83

money4me247 said:


> @chowmein83, have you heard the Lyr 2 before? that is kind of what I think of when I read your description of neutral with a touch of additional warmth on an amplifier. looking forward for hearing equipment described as 'musical but neutral' for myself.


 
  
 Unfortunately, I have not heard the Lyr 2 for a long enough time to be able to form an opinion. I think you already got your answer though.


----------



## MattTCG

I picked up the lyr 2 to have a little tube flavor in addition to the Carbon.


----------



## money4me247

matttcg said:


> I picked up the lyr 2 to have a little tube flavor in addition to the Carbon.


 
 niice! what type of tubes are you planning on using with your lyr 2?


----------



## MattTCG

money4me247 said:


> niice! what type of tubes are you planning on using with your lyr 2?


 
 One nice set of Telefunken's and one Bugle Boy.


----------



## DCDC

Hi everyone! Just wanted to chime in and say that I ordered the LC three days ago, order #100000800. Excited as the rest of you all here


----------



## lramirez1959

dcdc said:


> Hi everyone! Just wanted to chime in and say that I ordered the LC three days ago, order #100000800. Excited as the rest of you all here


 
 Kudos.
  
 One of us, One of Us...


----------



## maeveth

I wonder how many of the original 500 are spoken for now.


----------



## Barry S

maeveth said:


> I wonder how many of the original 500 are spoken for now.


 

 Assuming that most of the recent Cavalli orders have been for LC's, and a small number of orders are for more than one unit--I'd say in the low 400's.


----------



## PATB

Couldn't resist, so put in my order.  Now that I did, I am thinking I need a new headphone too since both of my balanced HD650 and RS1 have dual XLRS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 An Ether maybe?


----------



## jjacq

patb said:


> Couldn't resist, so put in my order.  Now that I did, I am thinking I need a new headphone too since both of my balanced HD650 and RS1 have dual XLRS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hard to go wrong with the LC+Ether!


----------



## pippen99

jjacq said:


> Hard to go wrong with the LC+Ether!


 

 I heard the Ether through the LC at the Nashville meet.  It is my #2 choice for an upgrade when the LC arrives to the LCD-X.  The Ether is probably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. Very very nice!


----------



## jjacq

pippen99 said:


> I heard the Ether through the LC at the Nashville meet.  It is my #2 choice for an upgrade when the LC arrives to the LCD-X.  The Ether is probably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. Very very nice!


 

 Haha twinzies. I won't be buying the Ether anytime soon because of some things to take care of but I'm getting it too for my LC to compliment my LCD-X.


----------



## TheChillburger

Just put in my order. Can't wait!


----------



## Serenitty

pippen99 said:


> I heard the Ether through the LC at the Nashville meet.  It is my #2 choice for an upgrade when the LC arrives to the LCD-X.  The Ether is probably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. Very very nice!


 

 So you feel the Ether is an upgrade to the LCD-X?  Just in comfort, or in sound also?
  
 Thanks..


----------



## pippen99

serenitty said:


> So you feel the Ether is an upgrade to the LCD-X?  Just in comfort, or in sound also?
> 
> Thanks..


 
 I was probably not as clear as I could have been.  I will be getting a LCD-X sometime around the time the LC arrives.  I did not listen to the LCD-X on the LC so it is going to be a little bit of a leap of faith.  The Ether was playing hi-res tracks from a AK120ii(not completely sure about the model) through a Auralic Vega($3500 DAC) into the LC.  I also heard the Ether through a Yggy/Rag stack and a Woo WA5.  Through all this high dollar and power equipment the Ether was superb.  Later I was able to directly A/B the Ether and LCD-X on a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack which was a closer approximation of the equipment I have or contemplate getting to go with the LC.  When doing this The LCD-X comes out on top for me.  It had a more complete presentation than the Ether across the spectrum or the Audeze sound signature fits me better since I use LCD-2f as my primary cans.  On the Ether impressions thread several people have noted that the Ether can sound much different through a variety of combinations.  As for comfort I could forget the Ethers were on my head.


----------



## Serenitty

pippen99 said:


> I was probably not as clear as I could have been.  I will be getting a LCD-X sometime around the time the LC arrives.  I did not listen to the LCD-X on the LC so it is going to be a little bit of a leap of faith.  The Ether was playing hi-res tracks from a AK120ii(not completely sure about the model) through a Auralic Vega($3500 DAC) into the LC.  I also heard the Ether through a Yggy/Rag stack and a Woo WA5.  Through all this high dollar and power equipment the Ether was superb.  Later I was able to directly A/B the Ether and LCD-X on a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack which was a closer approximation of the equipment I have or contemplate getting to go with the LC.  When doing this The LCD-X comes out on top for me.  It had a more complete presentation than the Ether across the spectrum or the Audeze sound signature fits me better since I use LCD-2f as my primary cans.  On the Ether impressions thread several people have noted that the Ether can sound much different through a variety of combinations.  As for comfort I could forget the Ethers were on my head.


 

 Thanks.  I always find myself wanting to apply the transitive property of mathematics to headphones, but it really just doesn't work.  So the LCD-X sounds better, but maybe it doesn't because that was a different upstream stack... 
  
 Also I was excited for a moment there thinking I was going to get an answer on how the AK120II sounds though the LC and Ether, but there was that pesky Vega DAC in the way..  I will know soon enough myself, hopefully early September.  Except the Ether part...  I'm going to have to "suffer" for a while with my T1 on the LC from the AK120II.  I think I'll manage.


----------



## PATB

This place is dangerous.  Okay, I am now also on-board the Ether bandwagon.  I trust the LC-Ether combo is good enough for my old ears.  August can't come soon enough.


----------



## aamefford

That's at least 3 today isn't it?  Funny....  I jumped on board early this month, thinking they'd all be gone.  I think I was tail end of the initial feeding frenzy, and things are calming down to a more normal pace now.


----------



## TheChillburger

I've been on the fence for about a month, but I figure it was about time to get into the balanced game.


----------



## aamefford

thechillburger said:


> I've been on the fence for about a month, but I figure it was about time to get into the balanced game.


 

 Heck yeah!  Sittin' on a fence for a month can make a fella uncomfortable, if you know what I mean...  Seriously, welcome.  Resistance if futile....


----------



## Thousand1000

Whats the expected price after the 1st run?


----------



## MattTCG

thousand1000 said:


> Whats the expected price after the 1st run?


 
 I expect that it will go up.


----------



## doctorjazz

If I recall from earlier in the thread, it wasn't guaranteed there would be another run...


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> If I recall from earlier in the thread, it wasn't guaranteed there would be another run...


 

 Yup, that's correct.


----------



## defbear

Does anyone know what the 1st order number is? Mines in the high 500's. I have to look it up. I had sent an email politely asking for an appx eta. I was thanked for my order and told they hope to ship late August - Early Sept. I put my order about 2 1/2 hours after the opening bell.


----------



## goldendarko

i think it was around 396 or 397


----------



## aarontyson

I think the order number for the Carbon started around 398. But yes you will probably have to wait until August for delivery.

 From the Cavalli website.

 "This limitd edition run will be capped at 500 amplifiers and based on first-come, first-served. We expect to begin shipping end of August, 2015.his limited edition run will be capped at 500 amplifiers and based on first-come, first-served. We expect to begin shipping end of August, 2015."


----------



## defbear

I'm looking forward to Labor Day


----------



## warrenpchi

goldendarko said:


> i think it was around 396 or 397


 
  
 I was #396.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^ Hacker


----------



## warrenpchi

I am the order 396, thou shalt have no other orders before me!


----------



## gr8soundz

warrenpchi said:


> I am the order 396, thou shalt have no other orders before me!


 
  
 Wonder if you'll get serial #002 or 3 or 4 (no telling who Dr. C. promised the very first units to or if he'll keep 001).
  
 Mine was 404 (no, I didn't bring down the site) and confirmed I should be getting an early serial#.


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> I am the order 396, thou shalt have no other orders before me!


 
  
 Just gotta keep rubbing that in, don't you my friend?


----------



## vhsownsbeta

axelcloris said:


> Just gotta keep rubbing that in, don't you my friend?


 

 Let's not revisit that time in our lives. It was like trying to buy radiohead tickets...


----------



## TheChillburger

I had order number 100000807, hope I made it in time. I didn't see a number for how many slots are left.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

thechillburger said:


> I had order number 100000807, hope I made it in time. I didn't see a number for how many slots are left.


 
  
 Oh Alex will close the "buy" button when he hits 500.  Probably 870 o 880.....


----------



## TheChillburger

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh Alex will close the "buy" button when he hits 500.  Probably 870 o 880.....




Cool, I'm pretty hype for this new gear!


----------



## aqsw

Wow, I was so excited to get a power cord for the LC. I phoned my electrition from work and he said" don't buy anything till Monday". I get the feeling he thinks it's all BS.

I've employed this guy for over 15 years. I usually trust his opinion on this kind of stuff.


----------



## goldendarko

aqsw said:


> Wow, I was so excited to get a power cord for the LC. I phoned my electrition from work and he said" don't buy anything till Monday". I get the feeling he thinks it's all BS.



 


Huh? You phoned an electrician about buying a power cord for a headphone amp? That must've been a weird phone call, and why do you need to wait til Monday? this post has me puzzled.


----------



## aqsw

He is multi faceted and is very smart on audiophile stuff. I respect his opinion more than some guy on the internet that says I need 500 dollar power cord. I have employed him for over 15 years and has Never done me wrong. Are you still confused?
I won't see him till Monday.


----------



## goldendarko

Just thought you were saying you called an electrician like out of the phone book or something to ask them about power cables and they said wait until Monday for some reason.


----------



## aqsw

goldendarko said:


> Just thought you were saying you called an electrician like out of the phone book or something to ask them about power cables and they said wait until Monday for some reason.




No problem!
I did say my electrition from work.


----------



## runeight

There is a short discussion about power cords somewhere earlier in this thread.


----------



## Barry S

aqsw said:


> No problem!
> I did say my electrition from work.




Hopefully, he won't recommend a frayed or shorted power cord--that would lead me to wonder about his qualifications.


----------



## warrenpchi

gr8soundz said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > I am the order 396, thou shalt have no other orders before me!
> ...


 
  
 Actually, I know for a fact that there's one person that comes before all of us, and that's the guy (or gal as there were women there) who won a Liquid Carbon in the CanJam SoCal 2015 SHaG.  And I suspect that Alex may want to keep #001 for himself.  So if he's #1, and the lucky SHaG winner is #2, and there is in fact none before me, then #3 is the earliest one that I'd get.
  


axelcloris said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > I am the order 396, thou shalt have no other orders before me!
> ...


 
  
 Hey, what else is early ordering good for?


----------



## money4me247

warrenpchi said:


> Actually, I know for a fact that there's one person that comes before all of us, and that's the guy (or gal as there were women there) who won a Liquid Carbon in the CanJam SoCal 2015 SHaG.  And I suspect that Alex may want to keep #001 for himself.  So if he's #1, and the lucky SHaG winner is #2, and there is in fact none before me, then #3 is the earliest one that I'd get. Hey, what else is early ordering good for?


 
 Hope you don't end up with unlucky #4 though =P


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

money4me247 said:


> Hope you don't end up with unlucky #4 though =P


 
  
 I suspect I'll be lucky #13, I'm about the 10th order in....
  
 I must have been 6 seconds behind.


----------



## joeexp

I'm no 408 perhaps I have the lucky number 13


----------



## nudd

joeexp said:


> I'm no 408 perhaps I have the lucky number 13




I'm of chinese ethnicity and 13 is really lucky for us


----------



## Evshrug

aqsw said:


> Wow, I was so excited to get a power cord for the LC. I phoned my electrition from work and he said" don't buy anything till Monday". I get the feeling he thinks it's all BS.
> 
> I've employed this guy for over 15 years. I usually trust his opinion on this kind of stuff.




Maybe he expects a Memorial Day sale? However, I expect he wants to explain in-person what would or would not matter in a power cable.

I think it would be cool if he brought a demonstration of an amp and two power cables... Honestly believe that he wants to suggest for you the most effective way to spend your money on a power cable, though whether he will say to use any old undamaged cord or something Fanshie is up in the air... On one hand the audio signal is going to be stamped into this power circuit, but on the other hand I think I recall that there's a threshold of cable resistance after which an amp can not gain any additional benefit. Could you possibly PM me what he says? Else I'll probably pick up one of the ones mentioned a page or two back in this thread, or just use a spare lying around here somewhere.

Right now, I'm powering my Theta DAC with a cable I stole from my Schiit Bifrost. I don't really have a "ton" of extra cables here.


----------



## Evshrug

aamefford said:


> Heck yeah!  Sittin' on a fence for a month can make a fella uncomfortable, if you know what I mean...  Seriously, welcome.  Resistance is futile....



In audio, having low resistance = good sound, right? ^_~


----------



## defbear

Wouldn't 4 make it Balanced?


----------



## mikoss

I am an electrician myself and always trust my ears. There is a bunch of wiring and equipment before the outlet and fancy power cord connected to your gear. Yet people say replacing the 1 inch of power going through the fuse in the gear makes a difference. Who are we to argue. Electrically wise, practically any cord will work just fine. Cable capacitance/inductance will change how something sounds, but this would be specifically your headphone cables/interconnects. The 5' power cord, I have my doubts, but also can't be bothered to buy anything expensive. There are much more cost effective changes that can be made to the system and gear before cables. Capacitors for example will drastically change the sound, and are much cheaper than boutique power cables.


----------



## slambanna

warrenpchi said:


> Actually, I know for a fact that there's one person that comes before all of us, and that's the guy (or gal as there were women there) who won a Liquid Carbon in the CanJam SoCal 2015 SHaG.  And I suspect that Alex may want to keep #001 for himself.  So if he's #1, and the lucky SHaG winner is #2, and there is in fact none before me, then #3 is the earliest one that I'd get.
> 
> 
> Hey, what else is early ordering good for?


 
 C'mon guys... I clearly called dibs on serial #001 here.
  
 Alex you can can PM me for my order number whenever.
  
 With all due respect to the SoCal winner and Warren, you should have called dibs.


----------



## jjacq

So has anyone heard the LC with the HE1000 yet :O


----------



## Dannek

money4me247 said:


> lol I am still really not quite sure what a "musical-sounding" piece of gear means. or "musical monitor" or "musical but neutral." I kinda think everything that plays music wld be musical ya? lol.
> 
> those terms were thrown around recently quite a lot... specifically for the liquid cavalli and mr speaker ether. So I ordered both to see what people really mean by that phrase hahah.


 
 I hear you..lol.
  
 I'm relatively new to this game and perhaps there is a better term to use.  I was quoting the term as I had seen it used recently as well.
  
 I consider musical to be something (amp, source, headphones) or combination of things, that makes you just forget yourself in the music.  Where you can suddenly look up and say, damn it's been a half an hour since I started listening and it seems like five minutes have gone by.  From what I've read, the LC and the Ether seem to have that synergy.  I love listening to live concerts, and if I can close my eyes and think that I'm actually there, that's what matters to me more than if the sound is perfectly accurate and analytical, from a recording standpoint.


----------



## Evshrug

I have generally experienced concerts to be acoustically bad or unfocused for directing at the masses, and concert recordings are usually worse... Though sometimes, they take the audio from the performer's mics, and sometimes the artists give an inspired performance. Usually a muddy concert recording comes on and after a few seconds I skip tracks in annoyance.

I totally do get the swept away by music thing though... First time I got my Q701 and listened to it with my iPod + FiiO E5, the first two times I heard Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs" album, almost every time I put on "In Rainbows," and recently I got to borrow a PM-3 and got into a "rut"  listening to a bunch of slow, quiet, atmospheric songs for two hours. Generally, it takes me a few minutes or a song or two to release the stress of the day, unless I have a new toy and am already focused on the experience.


----------



## doctorjazz

A TALE OF TWO CONCERTS

Live sound varies, depending on the performer, venue, and genre. Recently went to two shows not far apart. First, took my daughter to see her favorite band, All Time Low, who headlined a 4 band tour and were playing in a college gym. The first 3 bands could only be described as assault...painful volume, total lack of clarity, definition...couldn't even tell you anything about their music, absolutely no clue what they sounded like, aside from painful. All Time Low were a bit better...slightly lower volume, could make out some detail, but still buried some in the volume, enough to be able to enjoy it, but listening to the albums WAY better. Contrast that with a show at The Jazz Standard, Gil Evans Project. This was a big band in a small room, and THIS is what we want our gear to sound like. Bass that drives without overwhelming the rest of the music, instruments that sound like they are where they are BECAUSE they are where they are, no need to listen for it, sparking, subtle cymbal sounds, good sax (ouch), you get the idea. Makes for a good reference point when I put on the cans.


----------



## Serenitty

dannek said:


> I hear you..lol.
> 
> I'm relatively new to this game and perhaps there is a better term to use.  I was quoting the term as I had seen it used recently as well.
> 
> I consider musical to be something (amp, source, headphones) or combination of things, that makes you just forget yourself in the music.  Where you can suddenly look up and say, damn it's been a half an hour since I started listening and it seems like five minutes have gone by.  From what I've read, the LC and the Ether seem to have that synergy.  I love listening to live concerts, and if I can close my eyes and think that I'm actually there, that's what matters to me more than if the sound is perfectly accurate and analytical, from a recording standpoint.




To reproduce a big live concert I'd have to put earplugs in and turn the headphone volume way up... Well for a typical large concert anyway... The small venue performance of the Bacon Brothers was really nice... No earplugs needed.


----------



## A2029

runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is there a transient when plugging in headphones? I.e. if I plug in my sensitive IEMs when the amp is on, and unplug them before I turn off the amp, will there be any transient applied to the IEM?

 Thanks!


----------



## runeight

swich401 said:


> Is there a transient when plugging in headphones? I.e. if I plug in my sensitive IEMs when the amp is on, and unplug them before I turn off the amp, will there be any transient applied to the IEM?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Sorry. Deleted first reply. Didn't read your question correctly. If the music is off and the amp is on, the output DC offset should be less than 10mV, usually less than 5mV. I think all headphones can handle this so far as I know.


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> Sorry. Deleted first reply. Didn't read your question correctly. If the music is off and the amp is on, the output DC offset should be less than 10mV, usually less than 5mV. I think all headphones can handle this so far as I know.



just to clarify, it is safe to plug in iems either when the amp is on or off, but dun change the gain while the iems are plugged in. Am I correct?


----------



## runeight

Well, I honestly don't know about all the possible IEMs and how much DC transient they can each handle.
  
 If they are plugged in when the amp is turned on they will see <500mV of transient.
  
 If they are plugged in when the amp is on they will see an immediate <10mV.
  
 If you switch the gain they'll see <400mV.
  
 Perhaps someone who knows about many different IEMs can help us out as to whether or not these transients will affect IEMs. I very sure that the won't hurt any over ear headphone that I know about.


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> Well, I honestly don't know about all the possible IEMs and how much DC transient they can each handle.
> 
> If they are plugged in when the amp is turned on they will see <500mV of transient.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. I dun think a lot of people will be using IEMs with it (except Layla maybe), but it is certainly good to know. 
By the way, has the case design been finalised yet? I am curious to know what this baby will look like in it's final form =)


----------



## mscott58

hemtmaker said:


> Thanks for the info. I dun think a lot of people will be using IEMs with it (except Layla maybe), but it is certainly good to know.




Will definitely be using with my CIEMs - Noble K-10's. 

Cheers


----------



## Poimandres

I have seen the light. The senn hd650's have opened my eyes to another world of audio. I never thought I would say this however it is only cans for me now. Looking forward to the alpha primes.


----------



## audiofrk

poimandres said:


> I have seen the light. The senn hd650's have opened my eyes to another world of audio. I never thought I would say this however it is only cans for me now. Looking forward to the alpha primes.


 
 thats random.


----------



## Poimandres

Not really per earlier discussion someone mentioned that they doubted many people purchased solely for iems which was my main intent. After spending time with my hd650's which cost less than 1/3 of my ciems price I had an epiphany. So I sold my jh13's to fund the primes and further explore full sized cans. I am certain all of which was implied on my last post however it was really late when I posted. 

Regardless initial intent was for ciems, now the LC will be used solely for full size cans.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Speaking of IEMs, when using the balanced connector will there be a noticeable difference compared to SE?


----------



## bearFNF

digitalfreak said:


> Speaking of IEMs, when using the balanced connector will there be a noticeable difference compared to SE?


 We disused this already but, here it is again. 
The balanced was much cleaner when I listened to it at canjam-socal. Alex did say to me at the time the balanced was better. He let me listen to his balanced etys and the noise floor was better compared to my SE roxannes. He did say he has improved the SE connection since, but we will have to wait to see...


----------



## Sentinel92

Hello,

Planning to get a Liquid Carbon but the downside of living 6000 miles in the wrong direction means i wont be able to try it and decide there and then if i want it.

How is the amp signature like? I currently have a ALO MK3B, and i wonder if it will be a good upgrade to pair with my Audeze LCD2.2 (Pre Fazor). Ive also heard the Mass Kobo 394, Grace Design M903, Fostex HP V1, and the Continental with my LCD2's. Will the LC be able to match or beat any of this? I mentioned these models because im familar with their sounds.

Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

jjacq said:


> So has anyone heard the LC with the HE1000 yet :O


 
  
 Maybe check the SF Meet impressions thread?  I know the HE-1000 was there, but I'm not sure if the LC was...


----------



## maeveth

stillhart said:


> Maybe check the SF Meet impressions thread?  I know the HE-1000 was there, but I'm not sure if the LC was...


 
  
 I was there and I don't remember there being a Liquid Carbon but there was a Liquid Crimson.  I personally did not hear the HEKs on the Crimson though but I did hear them on @drfindley's Rag/Ygg combo and it would an amazing experience.  Its also worth pointing out that Jude's HEK was from an earlier run than the ones currently being sent out and were already well broken in.
  
 That being said I am both in the beta and have pre-ordered a Carbon and will listen post my impressions on the Carbon as soon as it comes in Aug/Sept.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

sentinel92 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Planning to get a Liquid Carbon but the downside of living 6000 miles in the wrong direction means i wont be able to try it and decide there and then if i want it.
> 
> ...


 
  
@DigitalFreak should be a good person to answer this.  He's selling his MK3B currently, and auditioned the LC with the LCD-X and LCD-3.  Of course seeing that he's selling his ALO amp might be a good indicator.  FYI, I also have that amp, and I think its time to let it go as well...
  
 But most of us here are buying this blindly.  Because after this 500 piece number is met, there are no guarantees of more being produced.  (I think Alex will, but I'm only speculating)


----------



## Sentinel92

buttuglyjeff said:


> @DigitalFreak
> should be a good person to answer this.  He's selling his MK3B currently, and auditioned the LC with the LCD-X and LCD-3.  Of course seeing that he's selling his ALO amp might be a good indicator.  FYI, I also have that amp, and I think its time to let it go as well...
> 
> But most of us here are buying this blindly.  Because after this 500 piece number is met, there are no guarantees of more being produced.  (I think Alex will, but I'm only speculating)




While im happy to jump right off the edge of the world into parts unknown, after currency conversion the LC will cost a pretty penny here where i am, so im still abit hesistant. Haha. Hope you get where im coming from. So at least a A-B discription with any of the amps I've mentioned will be helpful. 

But yeah, the 500 unit run is seriously stressing me out. I know there isnt many slots left but itll be very tempting to have my first Cavalli product.


----------



## Barry S

sentinel92 said:


> While im happy to jump right off the edge of the world into parts unknown, after currency conversion the LC will cost a pretty penny here where i am, so im still abit hesistant. Haha. Hope you get where im coming from. So at least a A-B discription with any of the amps I've mentioned will be helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not worth stressing over. I might wait until you have more information, since there's likely to be future runs (if the amp is as good as promised) and there will certainly be people selling amps from the first run (just the nature of head-fi).


----------



## audiofrk

poimandres said:


> Not really per earlier discussion someone mentioned that they doubted many people purchased solely for iems which was my main intent. After spending time with my hd650's which cost less than 1/3 of my ciems price I had an epiphany. So I sold my jh13's to fund the primes and further explore full sized cans. I am certain all of which was implied on my last post however it was really late when I posted.
> 
> Regardless initial intent was for ciems, now the LC will be used solely for full size cans.




Oh OK that makes sense and I do agree with yiu there.


----------



## Evshrug

audiofrk said:


> Oh OK that makes sense and I do agree with yiu there.



Yeah I'd forgotten that he said he wanted to mainly use the LC with CIEMs, so the message seemed left-field to me at first too. His explanation later made sense though


----------



## jjacq

Will there be a 2.5mm TRRS plug too? Or just the RSA plug for IEMs?


----------



## Evshrug

jjacq said:


> Will there be a 2.5mm TRRS plug too? Or just the RSA plug for IEMs?




Product page:
http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=11
From the first page:


runeight said:


> ... Please keep in mind that the amp is fairly small and it's not possible to accommodate every single useful jack. There will have be some tradeoffs which try to cover the maximum possible arrangements.
> 
> Input: Standard XLR input (L,R) balanced. 3.5mm and RCA SE. SE is converted to balanced inside the amp. I don't believe you will hear much difference although I always prefer to go balanced in if possible.
> 
> ...


----------



## jjacq

evshrug said:


> Product page:
> http://www.cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=11
> From the first page:


 

 Thanks for the quotes! Time to buy an 2.5mm to RSA IC! 
  
 At least I got my cable ready.


----------



## Poimandres

I may just go se out of the clas db to the LC for now.


----------



## doctorjazz

Pretty cable, what is it?


----------



## Evshrug

jjacq said:


> Thanks for the quotes! Time to buy an 2.5mm to RSA IC!
> 
> At least I got my cable ready.



I honestly wasn't sure what an RSA connector looked like, and I felt the best course of action (and explanation) would be best served "from the horse's mouth," so to type. I'm pretty sure the TRS plug is a 1/4", but only like 90%.

I also don't own IEMs of higher quality than Etymotic ER•6i and Audéo PFE 022, felt I had reached "mission accomplished" for their IEM-use case, but hopefully the amp adds something you were looking for and you also have some larger headphones to take advantage of other options.

That sure is a handsome cable!


----------



## Poimandres

3.5 is a 1/8 inch jack. The LC will drive full sized headphones, not sure if you will see much of a difference with those 2 iems however it depends on what you are utilizing now. If anything you will be future proofing for harder to drive gear with a Cavalli.


----------



## runeight

Say gents, I'd like to make a few comments about the Carbon and IEMs. We've been having many different conversations and I think it would be good to revisit this one.
  
 The Carbon was in part conceived as an amp for IEMs. This was because there seem to be a number of IEM users trying get the best sound quality possible, especially from the higher end IEMs. But, often to achieve this from various discrete amps, they may have had to compromise on noise level.
  
 So the Carbon was expressly designed as a balanced amp (to reduce noise) with a unity gain mode (because IEMs don't need gain for any normal source). I think most of you IEM users will find that the amp is fairly quiet if you use the balanced out for your IEMs. As we know it's a bit noisier from the SE out.
  
 The Carbon makes far more power than any IEM that I know about will ever need, but don't let that cause you to think that the Carbon is only designed for higher power headphones. It isn't.
  
 The 3X mode takes advantage of the capacity of the SMPS to deliver the current needed for more watts.
  
 The Carbon should span the use of IEMs and most over-ear headphones (except for the power sucking jobbies). I hope you find that this turns out to be the case.


----------



## achristilaw

I got 593.... how many have they sold now?


----------



## jjacq

runeight said:


> Say gents, I'd like to make a few comments about the Carbon and IEMs. We've been having many different conversations and I think it would be good to revisit this one.
> 
> The Carbon was in part conceived as an amp for IEMs. This was because there seem to be a number of IEM users trying get the best sound quality possible, especially from the higher end IEMs. But, often to achieve this from various discrete amps, they may have had to compromise on noise level.
> 
> ...


 

 To be honest, the fact that it's safe to use with IEMs and the multiple outputs it provides caused me to buy the LC over the Mjolnir. Mainly I want it for my LCD-X and other future ortho upgrades but I'm happy that it is versatile enough to use with my other equipment. Can't wait for it to be August!


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> Say gents, I'd like to make a few comments about the Carbon and IEMs. We've been having many different conversations and I think it would be good to revisit this one.
> 
> The Carbon was in part conceived as an amp for IEMs. This was because there seem to be a number of IEM users trying get the best sound quality possible, especially from the higher end IEMs. But, often to achieve this from various discrete amps, they may have had to compromise on noise level.
> 
> ...


 
 K10, Savant and Ether from one amp


----------



## runeight

If any of you will be at the Newport show this weekend (I won't personally, but the Carbon will be there with the walwart portable) you can listen to the various over-ear headphones that we'll have as well as the K10s (SE) and the ER4 balanced.


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> If any of you will be at the Newport show this weekend (I won't personally, but the Carbon will be there with the walwart portable) you can listen to the various over-ear headphones that we'll have as well as the K10s (SE) and the ER4 balanced.


 
  
 I'm still debating going.  If I do go, I'll bring my beta HE-1000 to test on the Carbon.  :-D


----------



## vhsownsbeta

stillhart said:


> I'm still debating going.  If I do go, I'll bring my beta HE-1000 to test on the Carbon.  :-D


----------



## doctorjazz

vhsownsbeta said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still debating going.  If I do go, I'll bring my beta HE-1000 to test on the Carbon.  :-D




That's the combination I figure will likely be my end game set up (I know, famous last words...)


----------



## fccn75

runeight said:


> If any of you will be at the Newport show this weekend (I won't personally, but the Carbon will be there with the walwart portable) you can listen to the various over-ear headphones that we'll have as well as the K10s (SE) and the ER4 balanced


 
 I like to ask Dr. Cavalli a question regarding the LC - is the sound signature of the LC similar and/or more so to your extremely successful hybrid SOHA 2? 
  
 I have been very impressed by your SOHA2 even to this day with it driving effortlessly into HD650 and LCD2.2 pre-fazor.  Time to try another flavor and that's where the LC comes in but unsure of its sound signature as the majority of the members here.  I am very familar with the SOHA2 even with many different driver tubes but it's your output buffer in ths hybrid that really steals the show!  It virtually drives low Z to high Z sets.
  
 If the LC is anything and more like the SOHA2, this can really be an end game for me while keeping my wallet from complaining!  Can you please briefly comment on it's comparison of sound signatures, thanks.


----------



## DCDC

If you have the time to answer, I was wondering how you went about getting the ER4 balanced. I'm a user of the ER4PT myself in S configuration and I've always wondered it it would be possible to get the ER4 balanced as it remains my overall favourite IEM to this day. I've tried searching on google for any examples of balanced ER4s but it's been fruitless


----------



## runeight

fccn75 said:


> I like to ask Dr. Cavalli a question regarding the LC - is the sound signature of the LC similar and/or more so to your extremely successful hybrid SOHA 2?
> 
> I have been very impressed by your SOHA2 even to this day with it driving effortlessly into HD650 and LCD2.2 pre-fazor.  Time to try another flavor and that's where the LC comes in but unsure of its sound signature as the majority of the members here.  I am very familar with the SOHA2 even with many different driver tubes but it's your output buffer in ths hybrid that really steals the show!  It virtually drives low Z to high Z sets.
> 
> If the LC is anything and more like the SOHA2, this can really be an end game for me while keeping my wallet from complaining!  Can you please briefly comment on it's comparison of sound signatures, thanks.


 
  
 Ah, nice of you to mention the SOHA 2. It's a very nice DIY amp for sure.
  
 I would have to say that the Carbon will likely be a much better amp than the SOHA 2. It should be quieter and have much more power. And I expect that the SQ of the Carbon is better than the SOHA. Probably by a lot.


----------



## runeight

dcdc said:


> If you have the time to answer, I was wondering how you went about getting the ER4 balanced. I'm a user of the ER4PT myself in S configuration and I've always wondered it it would be possible to get the ER4 balanced as it remains my overall favourite IEM to this day. I've tried searching on google for any examples of balanced ER4s but it's been fruitless


 
  
 I had to make this myself. And because the ER4s don't have a convenient way to change cables, I bit the bullet and cut the connectors off the stock cable and wired on an RSA plug. It wasn't too bad to do.


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> Ah, nice of you to mention the SOHA 2. It's a very nice DIY amp for sure.
> 
> I would have to say that the Carbon will likely be a much better amp than the SOHA 2. It should be quieter and have much more power. And I expect that the SQ of the Carbon is better than the SOHA. Probably by a lot.


 
  
 Would you care to comment on the LC vs the Beta22?


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> Would you care to comment on the LC vs the Beta22?


 
  
 Not really. Beta22 is a great amp and Ti and I have worked together in the past. I think he is brilliant.


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> Not really. Beta22 is a great amp and Ti and I have worked together in the past. I think he is brilliant.


 
  
 No worries.  I'm building one either way so I'll see for myself.


----------



## BRCMRGN

runeight said:


> dcdc said:
> 
> 
> > If you have the time to answer, I was wondering how you went about getting the ER4 balanced. I'm a user of the ER4PT myself in S configuration and I've always wondered it it would be possible to get the ER4 balanced as it remains my overall favourite IEM to this day. I've tried searching on google for any examples of balanced ER4s but it's been fruitless
> ...


 




dcdc said:


> If you have the time to answer, I was wondering how you went about getting the ER4 balanced. I'm a user of the ER4PT myself in S configuration and I've always wondered it it would be possible to get the ER4 balanced as it remains my overall favourite IEM to this day. I've tried searching on google for any examples of balanced ER4s but it's been fruitless




On the ER4 thread there discussions about adapters available on EBAY that let you use 2-pin or MMCX cables. I did this with mine to hifiman balanced termination.


----------



## runeight

brcmrgn said:


> On the ER4 thread there discussions about adapters available on EBAY that let you use 2-pin or MMCX cables. I did this with mine to hifiman balanced termination.


 
  
 That would be very handy to have. I don't have the ER4s here (they are in Newport), but IIRC they terminate in a TRS plug and there is no way to remove the cables from the ear pieces. Is that right??
  
 If so, a simple adapter might not work because to go balanced you must separate the two leads that are connected together as the common ground of the channels.


----------



## Poimandres

If I recall correctly the cables are detachable.


----------



## audiofrk

Phew finally caught up to this thread. Dr cavalli what dac is going to be at Newport? And are you going to be on the main floor or at the headphorium?


----------



## Stillhart

Well, it's official!
  


liu junyuan said:


> FYI I wanted to order a Liquid Carbon yesterday, and after emailing Alex, the 500 units are now taken. They are now only available for reservation.
> 
> ...snip...


----------



## longbowbbs

Congrats to Alex and to all the people patiently waiting for affordable greatness!


----------



## money4me247

just to echo echo... congrats to @runeight!! excited to receive the carbon


----------



## doctorjazz

I'll throw my congratulations in as well...and it was done without any cockamamie crowd funding campaign


----------



## AxelCloris

Congratulations Alex on selling every one of the first batch!
  
 6 weeks down, ~10 to go!


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> Congratulations Alex on selling every one of the first batch!
> 
> 6 weeks down, ~10 to go!


 
 Congratulations Alex! Well done. Virtual beer's on me.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Well, I guess you can pull the LC from the Newport Show......


----------



## Poimandres

I'll second that on the crowd funding campaign. Congratulations. Refreshing to see things done differently. Looking forward to the LC.


----------



## BRCMRGN

runeight said:


> That would be very handy to have. I don't have the ER4s here (they are in Newport), but IIRC they terminate in a TRS plug and there is no way to remove the cables from the ear pieces. Is that right??
> 
> If so, a simple adapter might not work because to go balanced you must separate the two leads that are connected together as the common ground of the channels.


 
 These adapters replace the earpiece end of the ETY cable, contain the appropriate resistor for the version you order nd a 2-pin or MMCX socket. I use mine with a balanced 2-pin to 3.5mm TRRS cable from Moon Audio.
  
 For example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/290630811178


----------



## defbear

The Cavalli Audio website still has them available at $599.00. (At this precise moment)


----------



## musiclvr

Congratulations Dr. Cavalli!!! I can't wait to receive my LC and finally experience audio contentment


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> The Cavalli Audio website still has them available at $599.00. (At this precise moment)


 
 Looks to say "Available for reservation", which is a little different I think than just plain "available".


----------



## Dannek

Indeed.  Congratulations on the first run, Dr. Cavalli.
  
 Now all we need is a really nice, well priced DAC to accompany the LC, perhaps from Cavalli Audio....nudge nudge..
  
  
  
 Quote:


defbear said:


> The Cavalli Audio website still has them available at $599.00. (At this precise moment)


 
 The page now says "Available now for reservation".
 I think the "for reservation" was just added.


----------



## defbear

Well, I think we are all on reservation. Website allows you to put one in the cart and pay for it. Still says shipping late August. If Dr. Cavalli does not administer the website and all units are sold out, the Cavalli website is still allowing orders.
 Congratulations for the sell out of the LC. I am getting more excited waiting for mine later this Summer.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, sorry I missed this.
  
 The Carbon is not sold out. Anyone who still wants one should be able to place an order.
  
 The original wording on the website was confusing. It said something like, "Available now." I received a few angry emails from individuals who ordered after reading this expecting to get the amp right away. Because of this, I changed it to Available for reservation."
  
 I'll let you know when we are running out of them. Thanks for the support though. You guys have been great with this pre-order process.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

runeight said:


> Hey gents, sorry I missed this.
> 
> The Carbon is not sold out. Anyone who still wants one should be able to place an order.
> 
> ...




Thank you, but now I am even more confused. I have an email from Alex Cavalli himself who said it was sold out and that they are only available for reservation, such as if people cancel their orders. 

I do not mean to be confrontational but just am confused. As a result of that email, I have spent my money elsewhere and am now unable to afford the LC for the present. 

Best,


----------



## runeight

Please send me that email. I did not intend to say what you concluded. 
  
 Oh, please send me your email address too. Thanks.


----------



## elwappo99

liu junyuan said:


> runeight said:
> 
> 
> > Hey gents, sorry I missed this.
> ...


 
  
 I don't know who that Alex Cavalli guy is, but sounds like @runeight is about to go have a stern conversation with him. Hope he doesn't get in too much trouble!


----------



## AxelCloris

elwappo99 said:


> I don't know who that Alex Cavalli guy is, but sounds like @runeight is about to go have a stern conversation with him. Hope he doesn't get in too much trouble!


 
  
 I'd love to be a fly on the wall while Alex has a stern conversation with Alex, that'd be amazing.


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> I'd love to be a fly on the wall while Alex has a stern conversation with Alex, that'd be amazing.




Maybe his identical twin brother? And I mean really identical!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

He's his own evil twin....


----------



## AxelCloris

buttuglyjeff said:


> He's his own evil twin...


 
  
 So does that mean the evil twin is clean shaven?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Oh, they are the same person ? Now the confusion is multiplied.


----------



## longbowbbs

liu junyuan said:


> Oh, they are the same person ? Now the confusion is multiplied.


 
 Alex is Runeight....


----------



## Wildcatsare1

And Runeight is Alex...


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Well I am happy I could provide some Sunday entertainment. 

I misinterpreted this message:

"You are correct, the amps are not available right now, but you can reserve one. We expect to begin shipping at the end of August."

By reserve, I guess he meant what we already knew--that they would be shipping later. But I already knew that there would be a delay and was just wondering whether any of the 500 were still available. Oh well...


----------



## x RELIC x

Great........... now I have an image of Quatto when I think of Runelight/Alex........




Spoiler: Warning: Quatto!



*Start the reactor! (Liquid Carbon)*


----------



## vhsownsbeta

longbowbbs said:


> Alex is Runeight....


 
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> And Runeight is Alex...


----------



## longbowbbs

vhsownsbeta said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Alex is Runeight....
> ...


 
 Love that movie!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

My sincere apologies for my lack of literacy and for needlessly confusing everyone. I should have known what he was saying. Have a good day!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

So, are you getting one?


----------



## Poimandres

Everyone should have one, they will be wait for it......LEGENDARY!


----------



## elwappo99

liu junyuan said:


> Oh, they are the same person ? Now the confusion is multiplied.


 
  
 Yes, Runeight is actually Alex's head-fi user name. It's somewhat humorous because if you've been on head-fi long enough you know people's real names as well as head-fi names. 
  


liu junyuan said:


> Well I am happy I could provide some Sunday entertainment.
> 
> I misinterpreted this message:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Total bummer on the amp. With so many of these being purchased you're sure to find plenty in the used market and I'm sure Cavalli Audio will also be selling some. Might even be safer since the rest of us are all guinea pigs.


----------



## nudd

elwappo99 said:


> Yes, Runeight is actually Alex's head-fi user name. It's somewhat humorous because if you've been on head-fi long enough you know people's real names as well as head-fi names.
> 
> 
> Total bummer on the amp. With so many of these being purchased you're sure to find plenty in the used market and I'm sure Cavalli Audio will also be selling some. Might even be safer since the rest of us are all guinea pigs.


 
  
 Sorry I don't understand this. There were ALWAYS going to be up to 500 produced for the first run. How does this change anything? Let's say they were all sold out day 1 or in 2 months time. The total number of amps sold will not change.


----------



## digitalzed

liu junyuan said:


> My sincere apologies for my lack of literacy and for needlessly confusing everyone. I should have known what he was saying. Have a good day!


 

 You did nothing wrong and you seem quite literate. Perhaps it's a cultural/language point more than anything else. Humor does not always translate well, especially on a forum.


----------



## aamefford

digitalzed said:


> You did nothing wrong and you seem quite literate. Perhaps it's a cultural/language point more than anything else. Humor does not always translate well, especially on a forum.



This, absolutely. Nothing rude, insulting or harmful was said by you @nudd.


----------



## nudd

aamefford said:


> This, absolutely. Nothing rude, insulting or harmful was said by you @nudd.


 
  
 I don't think he was apologising to me, but I agree nothing in the posts are to be taken as being rude or harmful. Including my own. The point I was making was to the post that replied to the OP saying that with the number of amps being sold, there would be surely some in the used market.
  
 That may well be true, but it was always going to be true regardless, and I had understood that the OP wanted one right away.
  
 I hadn't read the part where the OP said he had already committed funds elsewhere, so that is totally my bad and for that I apologise to everyone else as well!


----------



## vhsownsbeta




----------



## aamefford

^^^LOL!


----------



## goldendarko

Lol, that was hilarious, I literally almost choked on my food laughing at that GIF. I have noticed there is a lot more positivity on this thread that most others, despite the fact that there is a 4 month wait for this amp. Over on the HE1000 thread, people were ready to burn the place to the ground even though the headphones were literally in the mail and on the way from China.


----------



## Stillhart

goldendarko said:


> Lol, that was hilarious, I literally almost choked on my food laughing at that GIF. I have noticed there is a lot more positivity on this thread that most others, despite the fact that there is a 4 month wait for this amp. Over on the HE1000 thread, people were ready to burn the place to the ground even though the headphones were literally in the mail and on the way from China.


 
  
 At the risk of being flamed all to hell, I've noticed a trend on my steady climb towards summit-fi:  the vibe in the threads for the less expensive gear is MUCH more friendly and non-confrontational.  Something about the summit-fi gear or the people who use it makes those threads really rough.  
  
 I used to think it was just that people who spent a lot on something felt a need to validate the purchase, which is exacerbated by the prices at the summit.  But then I realized that we all stretch our budgets to get the best we can afford, even in the Q701 thread.  My current working theory is that a lot of the summit-fi folks are old-school 2-channel guys with all the inherent associations.  Maybe there's no simple explanation, but the trend is definitely there IMO.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

stillhart said:


> At the risk of being flamed all to hell, I've noticed a trend on my steady climb towards summit-fi:  the vibe in the threads for the less expensive gear is MUCH more friendly and non-confrontational.  Something about the summit-fi gear or the people who use it makes those threads really rough.
> 
> I used to think it was just that people who spent a lot on something felt a need to validate the purchase, which is exacerbated by the prices at the summit.  But then I realized that we all stretch our budgets to get the best we can afford, even in the Q701 thread.  My current working theory is that a lot of the summit-fi folks are old-school 2-channel guys with all the inherent associations.  Maybe there's no simple explanation, but the trend is definitely there IMO.


 

 Biggie was right...


----------



## DVass13

vhsownsbeta said:


> Biggie was right...


 
  
 Not to be a pain, but what exactly are the units on the Money scale? Dollars? Cents? This could be useful for estimating the number of problems I should be having.
  
 Also, does this suggest that if I spend all my money on audio gear (such that my money goes to zero) that all my problems will go away?


----------



## doctorjazz

I actually think this had more to do with the presentation and expectations than income or anything else. The way announcements were made on some products (thinking of the HE-1000, and everything LH Labs has done), either raising expectations on time, making limited offers (or ones that seemed limited), unrealistic delivery expectations, exacerbate people's (sometimes) excessive reactions. The LC release has just been calm, detailed, what you see is what you get.
My $0.02


----------



## vhsownsbeta

dvass13 said:


> Not to be a pain, but what exactly are the units on the Money scale? Dollars? Cents? This could be useful for estimating the number of problems I should be having.
> 
> Also, does this suggest that if I spend all my money on audio gear (such that my money goes to zero) that all my problems will go away?




G units of 50c.

You have 99 problems, so you should be able to extrapolate the amount of money involved.

As to your third question, I think you are in the wrong thread...


----------



## TheChillburger

Anyone take a look these new Audio GD amps? 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/769986/three-new-amps-on-preorder-from-audio-gd-c-2-11th-anniversary-edition-nfb-1amp-nfb-3amp
  
 The NFB-1AMP in particular looks like a pretty good competitor to the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## mikoss

doctorjazz said:


> The LC release has just been calm, detailed, what you see is what you get.
> My $0.02




So very true... The only question is, "What does it sound like!?"

This'll be the first amp I buy blindly, at least to my ears. I trust in the Cavalli sound.


----------



## elwappo99

thechillburger said:


> Anyone take a look these new Audio GD amps?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/769986/three-new-amps-on-preorder-from-audio-gd-c-2-11th-anniversary-edition-nfb-1amp-nfb-3amp
> 
> The NFB-1AMP in particular looks like a pretty good competitor to the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 I think they were mentioned in the NFB-28 page. The NFB-1 looks like an upgrade from the NFB-6, which was a good all around unit. Hopefully someone will have some impressions soon.


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> I think they were mentioned in the NFB-28 page. The NFB-1 looks like an upgrade from the NFB-6, which was a good all around unit. Hopefully someone will have some impressions soon.


 
  
 Looks like they're not shipping for another two weeks so patience will be key, as with the LC.


----------



## TheChillburger

stillhart said:


> Looks like they're not shipping for another two weeks so patience will be key, as with the LC.


 
 I mostly just mention them for the massive power rating and the preamp outputs. Without hearing it myself, it's feature set has a lot to offer (preamp output, etc).


----------



## yc1204

Gonna place my order to get the LC in order to drive my TH900. Sad i don't have balance headphone so i can only use SE of this amp. Anyone who heard this amp, can you please compare the difference in terms of its SE and balance output? (Or i should ask does the se as good as the balance out?). 

Also regarding the balance input, its like normal amp that balance in balance out and RCA in SE out right? I am asking because i have seen some amps they can do like XLR (balance) in SE out.


----------



## elwappo99

thechillburger said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like they're not shipping for another two weeks so patience will be key, as with the LC.
> ...


 
  
 They are really powerful units from Audio-GD. Also it's nice to have all the preamp, multiple inputs/outputs, and a remote. Good stuff there.


----------



## dusk

yc1204 said:


> Gonna place my order to get the LC in order to drive my TH900. Sad i don't have balance headphone so i can only use SE of this amp. Anyone who heard this amp, can you please compare the difference in terms of its SE and balance output? (Or i should ask does the se as good as the balance out?).
> 
> Also regarding the balance input, its like normal amp that balance in balance out and RCA in SE out right? I am asking because i have seen some amps they can do like XLR (balance) in SE out.




Balanced will have more power. (Tim Allen Grunting sounds). Get you cans recalled to balanced. Tons of companies/people here will do that for you.


----------



## Stillhart

dusk said:


> Balanced will have more power. (Tim Allen Grunting sounds). Get you cans recalled to balanced. Tons of companies/people here will do that for you.


 
  
 I know someone who would like to have a word with your Tim Allen...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## ksb643

Unfortunately I had to back out.....


----------



## 290752

Do you have to use balanced output and input to fully utilize the amplifier? Would the single ended do its justice? I ended up ordering one, but If the cost of balanced dac+ balanced headphone cables stack up too much I may have to back out of the order.


----------



## Evshrug

kepler28nm said:


> Do you have to use balanced output and input to fully utilize the amplifier? Would the single ended do its justice? I ended up ordering one, but If the cost of balanced dac+ balanced headphone cables stack up too much I may have to back out of the order.




Runeight (Alex Cavalli) said earlier that it's the amping path that matters, and that the LC can take a more typical input and separate it to balanced before putting it through the LC's amping circuits, so you can still fully utilize the balanced output. Alex says he still generally prefers balanced throughout the analogue audio chain, but basically you'll hear the sonic benefit of balanced amping without also getting a balanced DAC.


----------



## Stillhart

To add to Evs, I believe you'll want balanced headphone cables, but a balanced DAC isn't going to be as important.  As Evs said, the amp does a lot of work in giving you the benefits of balanced sound but you'll need balanced headphones/cable to take advantage of that.


----------



## dBel84

The intrinsic benefit of balanced throughout is the overall noise cancellation. Noise will be out of phase within positive and negative signal, this means they cancel each other out. This will not be the case for single ended input ( even though the amp will convert it into a balanced signal ) . The benefit you will still get is the fact that both the positive and negative signal is active - which equates to better driver control and more power.  The noise cancellation is not a huge issue considering the LC's low noise floor but the source should also have a low noise floor.  The amp will drive single ended headphones just fine ( it handled my LCD3 easily single ended ) ,  but it makes sense to run balanced if you have headphones with balanced cables.
  
 For people not wanting to spend a lot of money on balanced cables, an easy way to make a set is to cut off the TRS jack - leave about 5cm of cable. Add a male 4 pin XLR to the headphone end and a female 4 pin xlr to the TRS end - now you have a cable and an adapter . Be sure to check that the stock cable has 4 cores or else this is not possible.
  
 ..dB


----------



## runeight

Hello gents. Here's a photo of the first pre-production unit. This is the last unit we hand build to finalize details before allowing production to fully start. Most of the wait now is due to lead time on components and enclosures.
  
 This unit happens to be anodized, but the final unit may be powder coated (more durable finish). The body will be an extrusion instead of four separate pieces (which were convenient for the pre-prod qualification).
  
 This one also has the indicator LEDs, showing the power on, the gain set to 3X (red), and input set to SE (red). 1X gain is white and balanced input is white..
  
 The front panel is thicker than the protos and machined instead of punched out (so is the back). Also, the machinist who did the front messed up the recess for the vol knob. This is easy fix. We also will have a nicer knob on the production pieces.
  
 I know it's a long wait, but this is pretty much what you'll be getting as the package.


----------



## d1sturb3d

How about back pics too


----------



## audiofrk

oh wait you already did.


----------



## runeight

audiofrk said:


> oh wait you already did.


 
  
 Yes, I guess I did. And I'm trying to shut up too, but failing................
  
 I'll post a shot of the back later.


----------



## KG Jag

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks for the update Alex!
In case you're not familiar with the "Take my money!" internet meme, he's not literally telling you to shut up (I like updates!!), just that he's sold on the product even without further info. There are a lot of meme's out there... but I'll spare telling you where to look till AFTER the LC comes out 

Keep on rocking, baby!


----------



## doctorjazz

I know this has been gone over in the thread, but could someone please let me know what kind of balanced outputs those are (there are 2, along with a single ended output, if I'm correct). Hard to go through a 120 page thread (and, a 120 page thread on a unit that isn't even in production yet is pretty impressive!). Thanks


----------



## LFC_SL

A photo of the front panel was just posted so guess you missed it


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> I know this has been gone over in the thread, but could someone please let me know what kind of balanced outputs those are (there are 2, along with a single ended output, if I'm correct). Hard to go through a 120 page thread (and, a 120 page thread on a unit that isn't even in production yet is pretty impressive!). Thanks


 
 The 4-Pin XLR and RSA are both balanced.


----------



## doctorjazz

mscott58 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I know this has been gone over in the thread, but could someone please let me know what kind of balanced outputs those are (there are 2, along with a single ended output, if I'm correct). Hard to go through a 120 page thread (and, a 120 page thread on a unit that isn't even in production yet is pretty impressive!). Thanks
> ...




Thanks, 2 months to go (I think...)


----------



## elwappo99

runeight said:


> This one also has the indicator LEDs, showing the power on, the gain set to 3X (red), and input set to SE (red). 1X gain is white and balanced input is white..


 
  
  
 Good Stuff! I like the LED changing colors. I don't think any amps have LEDs that change based on input/gain


----------



## audiofrk

evshrug said:


> Thanks for the update Alex!
> In case you're not familiar with the "Take my money!" internet meme, he's not literally telling you to shut up (I like updates!!), just that he's sold on the product even without further info. There are a lot of meme's out there... but I'll spare telling you where to look till AFTER the LC comes out
> 
> Keep on rocking, baby!




What he said. I was just playing, I wasn't trying to imply that your talking to much. Apologies if it was misconstrued


----------



## runeight

No, no, it wasn't misconstrued. And, surprisingly, I get the meme (but thanks for the reminder). I was just joking in return (although perhaps a little too dry).
  
 As promised, here's the back panel. It's simple, but clean I think.


----------



## AxelCloris

Both front and back look fantastic, thanks for the update Alex!


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> Both front and back look fantastic, thanks for the update Alex!


 
 Concur. Great job Alex! 
  
 Now warp-speed ahead Captain!


----------



## masmole

runeight said:


> Hello gents. Here's a photo of the first pre-production unit. This is the last unit we hand build to finalize details before allowing production to fully start. Most of the wait now is due to lead time on components and enclosures.
> 
> This unit happens to be anodized, but the final unit may be powder coated (more durable finish). The body will be an extrusion instead of four separate pieces (which were convenient for the pre-prod qualification).
> 
> ...



excellent!

I like the addition of the LEDs as that's one of the concerns I had when I was checking out the prototype LC at Mr.Speakers' booth at Axpona.


----------



## doctorjazz

Wait, how many balanced outputs are there? Looks like 2, and 1 balanced input, correct?


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> Wait, how many balanced outputs are there? Looks like 2, and 1 balanced input, correct?




Yeppers. 1 in, 2 out.


----------



## fccn75

runeight said:


> No, no, it wasn't misconstrued. And, surprisingly, I get the meme (but thanks for the reminder). I was just joking in return (although perhaps a little too dry).
> 
> As promised, here's the back panel. It's simple, but clean I think.


 
  
 Dr. Cavalli, to me esthetically speaking, IMHO green LEDs would be nice instead of the red ones since this reminds me of older gears...but great to have regardless.


----------



## runeight

mscott58 said:


> Yeppers. 1 in, 2 out.


 
  
 Right. And there are two SE inputs, RCA and 3.5, which are converted to balanced and one SE output.


----------



## runeight

fccn75 said:


> Dr. Cavalli, to me esthetically speaking, IMHO green LEDs would be nice instead of the red ones since this reminds me of older gears...but great to have regardless.


 
  
 Well.....
  
 Thanks for the advice. But the red ones, I'm sure, have already been ordered by the PCB assembly shop.


----------



## masmole

I happen to like the red LEDs as they are... not that it matters since both will be white for my use.


----------



## audiofrk

I second the red


----------



## money4me247

I want PURPLE!!! =P hahah jk. doesn't matter to me what color anything is as long as it sounds great =D


----------



## aamefford

I'm glad they aren't blue.


----------



## KG Jag

specific color = not-so-important


----------



## Stillhart

Needs a USB input for programming RGB color of choice into LED.


----------



## goldendarko

I won't buy it unless it has Green.
  
 oh wait I already ordered one.


----------



## nudd

I hope the led is not too bright @runeight because this is going to be in my bedroom rig and my partner she is not keen on bright leds in the bedroom.


----------



## masmole

goldendarko said:


> I won't buy it unless it has Green.
> 
> oh wait I already ordered one.




don't worry, Liquid Carbon mk2 will have green LEDs for only twice the price next year


----------



## deadbeef

What's everyone planning on for a power cable?  Looking at the ones from signalcable


----------



## MattTCG

My moon audio should be just fine.


----------



## goldendarko

Monoprice are very affordable and sound good in my experience.


----------



## Stillhart

nudd said:


> I hope the led is not too bright @runeight because this is going to be in my bedroom rig and my partner she is not keen on bright leds in the bedroom.


 
  
 That's what black electrical tape is for.


----------



## deadbeef

matttcg said:


> My moon audio should be just fine.


 
 Were you talking about this? http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-power-cord-v1.html


----------



## MattTCG

deadbeef said:


> Were you talking about this? http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-power-cord-v1.html


 
 Yes, that's the one. I thought about selling it a few months ago. Glad that I kept it now.


----------



## goldendarko

Lol, you can literally trick that thing out to cost more than the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## reddog

goldendarko said:


> Monoprice are very affordable and sound good in my experience.



+1 Well said.


----------



## deadbeef

goldendarko said:


> Monoprice are very affordable and sound good in my experience.


 
 Something like this? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5285&seq=1&format=2


----------



## goldendarko

deadbeef said:


> Something like this? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5285&seq=1&format=2


 
 Exactly, I've tried the more expensive power cables and haven't noticed a difference, I would recomment saving the extra $250 and putting it towards better gear, or just more music.


----------



## Viper2005

goldendarko said:


> Exactly, I've tried the more expensive power cables and haven't noticed a difference, I would recomment saving the extra $250 and putting it towards better gear, or just more music.


 

 Agreed I use the Monoprice 14awg power cables for my Yggy and Rag stack, they are fine.


----------



## nudd

Or maybe the red will make a nice romantic fill light ...


----------



## masmole

deadbeef said:


> What's everyone planning on for a power cable?  Looking at the ones from signalcable



A $9 Tripp Lite 14awg power cable from Amazon like I use for all my components, hooked up to a Furman power conditioner.

Please don't waste your money on fancy power cables, unless you really find enjoyment in admiring their overkill build and exotic jacketing.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I got one on ebay:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12awg-Audio-Power-Cable-Cord-4ft-iec-US-connectors-/321773062571?
  
 But I believe Volex 17604 was the giant killer of power cables...


----------



## MattTCG

buttuglyjeff said:


> I got one on ebay:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12awg-Audio-Power-Cable-Cord-4ft-iec-US-connectors-/321773062571?
> 
> But I believe Volex 17604 was the giant killer of power cables...


 
  
 That cable actually looks pretty solid. Might need to pick one up.


----------



## Insidious Meme

I have a spare computer PSU cord.

Btw, Alex. What power cord did you use on the Carbon at CanJam? It didn't look like your normal power cord.


----------



## runeight

insidious meme said:


> I have a spare computer PSU cord.
> 
> Btw, Alex. What power cord did you use on the Carbon at CanJam? It didn't look like your normal power cord.


 
  
 I don't recall exactly, but it would have been one of these three: CablePro, WyWires or JPS Labs.


----------



## achristilaw

Power conditioning and interconnects have more to do ultimate resolution than any power cord in headphone systems (IMO).


----------



## Stillhart

I won't get into the power cable debate other than to say that it's a safe bet that, all other things equal, THICKER cables tend to sound better.  If you have a choice between Monoprice 16AWG or 14AWG, take the thicker one.  Etc.


----------



## doctorjazz

I find it interesting that people here have tremendous faith in Alex, some have bought the LC without ever hearing it. But they post about how cables and power cords are a waste of money (the high end kind). Yet, look at the cords Alex listed as likely ones he used with the LC...some of them sell for as much or more than the LC itself. If you think anyone that uses a high end power cord (or cable) is a fool, how does that square with the faith in him as a designer? Think he just throw out HIS money? He's selling LC without a power cord, so he had no motivation to push an expensive one, no?
just sayin'
(truth be told, I have good interconnects, and a power conditioner, but haven't paid much attention to upgrading power cords. But makes me think about it...)


----------



## goldendarko

Have you ever heard of placebo effect, I think people just honestly believe they sound better. Ultimately, you just need to try it for yourself and if you feel you get something out of it, then it's worth it. I've tried them myself, and try as I might, couldn't hear any difference for the life of me.


----------



## masmole

doctorjazz said:


> I find it interesting that people here have tremendous faith in Alex, some have bought the LC without ever hearing it. But they post about how cables and power cords are a waste of money (the high end kind). Yet, look at the cords Alex listed as likely ones he used with the LC...some of them sell for as much or more than the LC itself. If you think anyone that uses a high end power cord (or cable) is a fool, how does that square with the faith in him as a designer? Think he just throw out HIS money? He's selling LC without a power cord, so he had no motivation to push an expensive one, no?
> just sayin'
> (truth be told, I have good interconnects, and a power conditioner, but haven't paid much attention to upgrading power cords. But makes me think about it...)



I heard a prototype LC with a few different headphones at Axpona. I liked what I heard and so I pre-ordered one. I have also heard many of Alex's other more expensive amps in various setups, and generally like the "Cavalli sound". So it's not exactly blind faith. Many here are well aware of Alex's great work and many have already experienced it by owning one or more of his other amps... thus the tremendous faith. Besides, at only $599 the LC is a pretty damn safe bet, if not a no-brainer 

On the other hand, many here including myself have also BTDT in terms of experimenting with fancy power cords, and have failed to recognize any benefits. I will admit that I have spent a lot more money than I ever should have on not only very expensive power cords, but also interconnects, headphone cables, and speaker wires. So it was never for the lack of trying. I've made great efforts to justify my expensive cabling acquisitions, but in the end I've concluded that it was money wasted every time. These days, I buy nice-looking but not too expensive braided or sleeved headphone cables, interconnects and speaker cables simply because they look cool and can be visible from my listening position (call me vain lol) but since I can hardly ever see the power cables as they're obscured by their respective components while they gather dust in the rear, I just stick with $9 Amazon-sourced 14awg cheapies because they sound no different than the $800 Shunyata Zitron or the $600 Nordost Heimdall that I'm ashamed to admit I ever wasted my money on. (well not really "wasted" since I was able to sell them on audiogon for almost all my money back). When I had them, I've A-B'd them with the cheapies and even did blind listening tests with the help of my eager-to-help gf when we were bored one weekend. Result: no recognizable difference to both of our ears. For the record, she was only eager to help because she was in shock and at a loss for words when I first told her how much I spent on the Shunyatas and Nordost power cables. She jokingly suggested we try it with our rice cooker to see if we could cook better fluffier rice with a wider soundstage.


----------



## joeexp

`Please, Please no the power cable discussion again. Buy whatever you think is good for you.


----------



## Serenitty

masmole said:


> For the record, she was only eager to help because she was in shock and at a loss for words when I first told her how much I spent on the Shunyatas and Nordost power cables. She jokingly suggested we try it with our rice cooker to see if we could cook better fluffier rice with a wider soundstage.


 
  
 Well, you would have to start with High resolution rice for that to work...


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, and I mostly use stock cables into a power conditioner, haven't done A-B comparisons, and it's an LC forum, bit, hey, we have to talk about something for a few months, I'm wondering if Alex does find a benefit...why else get such high prices wire?


----------



## Jeff Y

doctorjazz said:


> OK, and I mostly use stock cables into a power conditioner, haven't done A-B comparisons, and it's an LC forum, bit, hey, we have to talk about something for a few months, I'm wondering if Alex does find a benefit...why else get such high prices wire?


 
 Possible reasons why:
 1. To actually better the performance and get benefits from a better AC cord (not saying I believe in such things) (I don't know yet personally).
 OR
 2. To satisfy those who audition the amp and they are one of those people who do believe that they do make a difference in sound.
  
 Could be both!


----------



## doctorjazz

jeff y said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > OK, and I mostly use stock cables into a power conditioner, haven't done A-B comparisons, and it's an LC forum, bit, hey, we have to talk about something for a few months, I'm wondering if Alex does find a benefit...why else get such high prices wire?
> ...




Sure, I realize those are the possibilities, # 2a would be, power cord manufacturers could GIVE them to Alex to have it be seen that he uses them by th e public, so it actually doesn't even cost all that money, and looks good...
and it could be all of the above, just wondering, maybe Alex would comment if it does improve the sound of the LC (or the other amps) to use them?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

doctorjazz said:


> OK, and I mostly use stock cables into a power conditioner, haven't done A-B comparisons, and it's an LC forum, bit, hey, we have to talk about something for a few months, I'm wondering if Alex does find a benefit...why else get such high prices wire?


 
  
 Well, I'm sure Alex procured those for the sake of his multi-thousand dollar amps that have been his bread and butter until the Liquid Carbon.  Also, show environments aren't exactly know to be the best electrically.  With booth after booth needing juice, I'm sure better cables help "temper" electrical fluctuations.  I bet even Alex would scratch his head if we were all running out to buy $600 power cords....


----------



## doctorjazz

buttuglyjeff said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > OK, and I mostly use stock cables into a power conditioner, haven't done A-B comparisons, and it's an LC forum, bit, hey, we have to talk about something for a few months, I'm wondering if Alex does find a benefit...why else get such high prices wire?
> ...




Would he?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

doctorjazz said:


> Would he?


 
  
 We'll only be 100% certain when Alex chimes in.  But, with that said, he already chimed in about worrying about interconnects and headphone cables before looking at power conditioners.  So, one would assume he would share a similar opinion towards power cables.
  
 All that and I'm sure he "full blown kool-aid" on all high end accessories, in regard to his amps...


----------



## Jeff Y

doctorjazz said:


> Would he?


 
 Or he could be smiling his evil smile that he doesn't show in front of other people. I know that some companies (forget which) use good wires like Cardas just as a way to boost sound, so a question that comes into mind is, how good is the wiring of Cavalli amps? or any other audio component out there in the market.
 I guess good wiring internally is more important than good ac cord wiring (well, many people seem to think so).


----------



## runeight

Please see my comments earlier in this thread about power cords and the Carbon. MHO.


----------



## runeight

jeff y said:


> Or he could be smiling his evil smile that he doesn't show in front of other people. I know that some companies (forget which) use good wires like Cardas just as a way to boost sound, so a question that comes into mind is, how good is the wiring of Cavalli amps? or any other audio component out there in the market.
> I guess good wiring internally is more important than good ac cord wiring (well, many people seem to think so).




My amps have very little wiring in them. Most everything is on carefully designed PCBs. The Carbon has no wiring. It's a single board (like many other amps its size).


----------



## vhsownsbeta

Alex: any info you can share on the potentiometer?


----------



## Jeff Y

runeight said:


> My amps have very little wiring in them. Most everything is on carefully designed PCBs. The Carbon has no wiring. It's a single board (like many other amps its size).


 
 Then what some companies say about using expensive wiring inside their amps is... not really much I guess.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jeff y said:


> Then what some companies say about using expensive wiring inside their amps is... not really much I guess.


 
  
 Tube amps are often point to point wiring...


----------



## Jeff Y

buttuglyjeff said:


> Tube amps are often point to point wiring...


 
 The wiring would be so tiny and thin anyway I suppose. I feel like I'm polluting this thread now.


----------



## mandrake50

jeff y said:


> Possible reasons why:
> 1. To actually better the performance and get benefits from a better AC cord (not saying I believe in such things) (I don't know yet personally).
> OR
> 2. To satisfy those who audition the amp and they are one of those people who do believe that they do make a difference in sound.
> ...


 

 Notice that he wasn't even sure which cable he used... should be one  of three different ones. Doesn't sound like he is fixated on using THE one that does something special for the sound. Maybe he just remembered the three that he had got recently to try...
 It could be for the same sort of reason that I burn in gear before I talk about it around here. There are a certain segment of the audience that will tell you that you can't tell anything about a piece fo gear for a couple of hundred hours of runtime... so just give them what they want to level the playing field. People are impressed by fat power chords and cables using exotic parts... so use them just to limit the discussion to what matter... how a piece of gear sounds.
  
 It would be interested if he commented. I personally think that going beyond what is adequate is a waste of money. Can't see a $600 cable with sufficient conductor sizes doing any better job at 8 watts at 120 volts to the LC any better than a $10 with the same specs.


----------



## runeight

Maybe a good idea for me to review what I said a while back, since it's a lot of posts ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I think we have to keep in mind that different circumstances may require different solutions.
  
 When talking specifically about the Carbon I think that it is better to use the hard earned cash (to maximize the resulting SQ) to invest in DACs and good cables instead of power cords/conditioners. This is because the Carbon has a universal SMPS which operates from 85VAC to 265VAC. There is no need to keep the line/mains locked to a particular voltage because the PS doesn't really care. I think a good quality power cord will do the trick. Again MHO.
  
 However, there are other situations where conditioners and cords can matter. Most amps have linear supplies and they might prefer a good stable voltage with minimum noise. In some cases a conditioner might be essential. And shows....shows can be a real train wreck when it comes to power. Not always, but sometimes. So an exhibitor should be prepared to deal with as much of this as is reasonably possible.
  
 There's more I meant to say, but I forgot what it is ATM.


----------



## doctorjazz

runeight said:


> Maybe a good idea for me to review what I said a while back, since it's a lot of posts ago.
> 
> I think we have to keep in mind that different circumstances may require different solutions.
> 
> ...




Thanks, was partly teasing/making good-natured (I hope) trouble, partly curious on your take on these (you have more hands on and listening experience than most of us). Have to do something on these pre release threads to keep interested (aside from the occasional siting/listening in the wild post). Thanks for going through it again. The way I read it (which is what I understand from previous reading/experience), is that the power cords may make a difference, but only if you've already maximized the other elememts of the chain (on point of using $500 power cord on a $200 receiver). Good components would be primary, good interconnects and speaker cables, then fine tune the power (maybe along with the cables?).
Again, thanks for getting back on it.


----------



## GavThomson

Bugger, I asked about this about a 100 pages ago and got not much of a reply......so I bit the bullet and bought what I think is a fairly decent cable.. 
  
 http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/139-mains-cables-r-us-no-2-mains-lead.html
  
 On the bright side (not sound), I do get to actually test in my system whether a decent or expensive power cord makes any difference......I've got a Hugo as the DAC which is battery powered and the interconnects are Silver dragons which are again decent (I think), so there is a good case that if it does make a difference it will!?  Especially as getting it past the wife was herculean, so it better work.
  
 Having said all that, what affect the Powerline > surge protector > new power cable > LC > headphone  - will be moving from an isolated (power condition wise) Hugo > headphone is anyone's guess.
  
 gav


----------



## sfoclt

$5 hospital grade power cord here.  I hope I get sound out of the LC.


----------



## Stillhart

sfoclt said:


> $5 hospital grade power cord here.  I hope I get sound out of the LC.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, where did you find a hospital grade cable for $5?  When I was looking to DIY one, the connectors alone cost $15-20 each for hospital grade.


----------



## sfoclt

Ebay.  Just find one of the correct rating from any of the industrial medical equipment manufacturers like Kawasaki, Mitsubishi, etc. If it says "audio" anywhere in the description, that costs an extra $40.


----------



## money4me247

lol before everyone goes off & purchases 'hospital grade power cords,' I would recommend reading these posts on the subject.
  
 http://www.slideshare.net/cablewholesale/what-makes-a-cable-medical-grade-or-hospital-grade
 http://www.quail.com/C-44/Power-Cords-Hospital-Grade-Power-Cords.aspx
 http://www.grainger.com/content/supplylink-hospital-grade-outlets-patient-care
  
 the primary purpose of 'hospital grade' is adding redundancy to prevent single point of failure and preventing patient harm (like Power will not be passed if the wire is faulty). also it is a way to certify that the items have been tested to meet the NEC and UL standards. UL standards are beyond the scope of typical home usage. Things such as the effectiveness of the insulation even when severely stressed, durability of the material, emphasis on insulation for safety, extremely durable plugs that prevent being pulled out the wiring is stepped on repeatedly over long periods of time, and special grounding criteria. Whether something like this is useful for home audio applications is hard to say as that is not the point of this certification. ultrasound techs use cheap earbuds... not expensive IEMs or anything like that. the point is that hospital certification is really for hospital applications (focus on safety) can be severely different than 'audiophile' applications (where the focus may be attempting to reduce noise/interference or whatever).
  
 I personally would always advise budgeting your money towards your transducers (aka headphones) as they have the most significant impact on sound quality if you are trying to maximize the sound quality per dollar spent.


----------



## aqsw

I've heard so many different points on this topic.
  
 I was going to use a regular computer cable, but I thought "what the hell", I'm going all out on this system.
  
 I bought two of these. One for the LC, and the other for my Hegel HD12. I offered 60 USD for two of them and he accepted my order. I can't see
 spending any more than that.
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/141637441360


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> lol before everyone goes off & purchases 'hospital grade power cords,' I would recommend reading these posts on the subject.
> 
> http://www.slideshare.net/cablewholesale/what-makes-a-cable-medical-grade-or-hospital-grade
> http://www.quail.com/C-44/Power-Cords-Hospital-Grade-Power-Cords.aspx
> ...


 
  
 "Special grounding criteria" jumps out to me as something that could potentially affect audio.  (Yes, I've been reading a LOT about grounding while trying to decide on a 2-channel or 3-channel Beta22 build!)  I'll read up on those links in a bit, thanks.
  
 At the end of the day, if I can get "hospital grade" cables for $5, it's not much more than Monoprice and it's a lot sturdier.  Might be worth the $2...
  
 EDIT - Checked eBay, they ain't $5.


----------



## sfoclt

stillhart said:


> EDIT - Checked eBay, they ain't $5.


 
  
 Except, of course, the one I bought.  Check your PM's.


----------



## mikoss

The ground in an electrical sense is there strictly for safety reasons. If the "hot" conductor touches the metal case of your device, it allows/creates a short circuit through the ground wire back to the panel, through its ground, back to the transformer, and your circuit breaker will trip. If you have a plastic device with a double insulated case, it doesn't even require a ground (it's shown by a box within a box icon, and will only have two prongs on its cord). 
  
 For audio, it's always good to have a good ground connection, usually because of humming/noise/etc.
  
 Electrically wise, I am almost certain if you go buy some 14/3 SOW (extension cord) cable at Home Depot, you could easily hi-pot test it to 1000VDC with very little current leaking. Not sure what the hospital grade spec is... also not sure what exotic audio power cords have in them versus using a power conditioner and regular cord. If anyone wants to make their own cord, it's quite easy, just ensure the hot/neutral/ground go to the right pins.


----------



## runeight

doctorjazz said:


> Thanks, was partly teasing/making good-natured (I hope) trouble, partly curious on your take on these (you have more hands on and listening experience than most of us). Have to do something on these pre release threads to keep interested (aside from the occasional siting/listening in the wild post). Thanks for going through it again. The way I read it (which is what I understand from previous reading/experience), is that the power cords may make a difference, but only if you've already maximized the other elememts of the chain (on point of using $500 power cord on a $200 receiver). Good components would be primary, good interconnects and speaker cables, then fine tune the power (maybe along with the cables?).
> Again, thanks for getting back on it.


 
  
 Yes, that's what I mean, more or less. Make sure that you've got good digital files, a good source, a good amp, and good headphones. I've seen many times where people have had one really good piece and other not so good pieces. Then when they replace one of the lesser components the system seems to spring to life. I have had people tell me that my amp messed up their system because everything now sounded really bad. But what actually happened is that the amp revealed the poor quality of the source. Many things in bad music were "covered" by the previous amp and, with only one change in the system, they could hear all of it. Same for headphones when the CA amp made the headphones sound like they really can sound.
  
 After the "big four" and really only after these are all good pieces can you even hear the change special cables or cords can possibly make (so long as you use good quality cables/cords to begin with).


----------



## runeight

mikoss said:


> The ground in an electrical sense is there strictly for safety reasons. If the "hot" conductor touches the metal case of your device, it allows/creates a short circuit through the ground wire back to the panel, through its ground, back to the transformer, and your circuit breaker will trip. If you have a plastic device with a double insulated case, it doesn't even require a ground (it's shown by a box within a box icon, and will only have two prongs on its cord).
> 
> For audio, it's always good to have a good ground connection, usually because of humming/noise/etc.
> 
> Electrically wise, I am almost certain if you go buy some 14/3 SOW (extension cord) cable at Home Depot, you could easily hi-pot test it to 1000VDC with very little current leaking. Not sure what the hospital grade spec is... also not sure what exotic audio power cords have in them versus using a power conditioner and regular cord. If anyone wants to make their own cord, it's quite easy, just ensure the hot/neutral/ground go to the right pins.


 
  
 Yes, Please don't defeat the IEC ground connection from the Carbon to the wall. This is dangerous and could damage you and the amp.


----------



## warrenpchi

Lol, bored thread is bored.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, bored thread is bored.


 
  
  
 Awww, I'll try to liven it up a bit.....
  
 The thing about the LC, is it lives in a space not occupied by many good solid state options.  We all know all the Schiit options, but beyond that not much.
  
 With that said, does anyone who ordered a Liquid Carbon also happen to own a Heed Canamp? (and maybe the optional power supply).  I would really like to read a comparison of the two.


----------



## nudd

buttuglyjeff said:


> Awww, I'll try to liven it up a bit.....
> 
> The thing about the LC, is it lives in a space not occupied by many good solid state options.  We all know all the Schiit options, but beyond that not much.
> 
> With that said, does anyone who ordered a Liquid Carbon also happen to own a Heed Canamp? (and maybe the optional power supply).  I would really like to read a comparison of the two.


 
  
 There is also the Eddie Current Black Widow for only five hundred or so more. Its quite an exciting time for amps in this category. I opted for an LC because I suspect the LC is going to be pretty much where the best price performance is to be had.


----------



## runeight

warrenpchi said:


> Lol, bored thread is bored.


 
  
 Maybe you should do something to liven it up a bit.


----------



## Jeff Y

runeight said:


> Maybe you should do something to liven it up a bit.


 
 A Liquid Carbon giveaway will do the trick for sure! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 or not.


----------



## nudd

Also has it been discussed what is the amplifier topology being utilised for the LC? is it class A or something else?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jeff y said:


> A Liquid Carbon giveaway will do the trick for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree, a give away of *warrenpchi's* LC is in order....


----------



## Jeff Y

buttuglyjeff said:


> I agree, a give away of *warrenpchi's* LC is in order....


 
 haha. good one
 I guess from your signature below your post, it seems your smeggy's Thunderpants have been given away to someone without you knowing it...
 lol.


----------



## runeight

nudd said:


> Also has it been discussed what is the amplifier topology being utilised for the LC? is it class A or something else?


 
  
 The actual topology is four discrete, current feedback, operational amplifiers, two per channel. I chose this topology because IMHO it gives the best unity gain behavior (which was a key requirement) and I've already used similar buffers in the Liquid Glass..
  
 Because the amp is so small it cannot burn a lot of quiescent power. It does not stay in class A for very long before it transitions to AB. But, its THD performance is very good, even at its limits of power.


----------



## audiofrk

nudd said:


> There is also the Eddie Current Black Widow for only five hundred or so more. Its quite an exciting time for amps in this category. I opted for an LC because I suspect the LC is going to be pretty much where the best price performance is to be had.




The black widow is actually almost $1400 (first run is over) but its supposed to be really good and also way bigger (slightly taller, wider, longer than bifrost) and comes in 2 parts amp & power supply. So its not really a direct competitor to the carbon. Sooo get both


----------



## asgeir101

In your opinion Alex where does the LC's sound fall relative to your other amplifiers?


----------



## audiofrk

runeight said:


> The actual topology is four discrete, current feedback, operational amplifiers, two per channel. I chose this topology because IMHO it gives the best unity gain behavior (which was a key requirement) and I've already used similar buffers in the Liquid Glass..
> 
> Because the amp is so small it cannot burn a lot of quiescent power. It does not stay in class A for very long before it transitions to AB. But, its THD performance is very good, even at its limits of power.




Whats the differences between a discrete operational amplifier and a regular opamp?


----------



## runeight

asgeir101 said:


> In your opinion Alex where does the LC's sound fall relative to your other amplifiers?


 
  
 The LC shares the same basic sound signature as the other CA amps. It sounds like a CA solid state amp, which means that it is smooth sounding, but resolving and articulate. It probably resembles the LAu the most, even though it uses a derivative of the Liquid Glass buffers.
  
 The main difference is that is much lower power than the Gold.


----------



## runeight

audiofrk said:


> Whats the differences between a discrete operational amplifier and a regular opamp?


 
  
 An opamp is a particular circuit topology that was defined many years decades ago. There were, in fact, tube opamps. There are a small handful of topologies that are defined as opamps with a given, more or less well understood behavior.
  
 Every chip opamp contains many devices on the silicon which make up the opamp circuit. Different chips have different quantities and types of devices depending on the specifics of the design, such as speed, current output, input device types, etc.
  
 Since an opamp is a defined circuit topology made out of a collection of components, it's possible to make an opamp from discrete components. Most opamps are voltage feedback types (so far as I know), but some are current feedback circuits. The Carbon uses our design for a current feedback opamp amplifier.
  
 Most chip opamps have very high open loop gain, somewhere near 120db (1 million). To reduce this gain down to 1X for a headphone amp requires a huge amount of global feedback (i.e., 120db). For this reason, I believe, many chip opamps sound ok for audio amps, but not usually really really good.
  
 The Carbon discrete opamps have much lower open loop gain and, hence, the amount of feedback required to achieve unity gain is not so high. Hence, MHO, a better sound.
  
 Just FYI, so far as I know nearly every solid state power amplifier that has ever been sold for the last 5 decades has been a discrete voltage feedback opamp.
  
 See here for a good article on this. Note section 1, The Generic Amplifier Configuration
  
 http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm


----------



## immtbiker

Funny lil' diddy...
  
 Way back when, I worked as a field engineer for Xerox (18 years) and I was co-traveling with one of my techs who had a whiny, unrealistic customer.
  
 The customer was complaining that his $35K copier wasn't running as fast as it used to, and we tried delicately to explain that it's impossible for a copier
 to run slower than it used to because everything in the xerographic process has to run precisely to the "microsecond", otherwise nothing would line up and
 the images would be blurry.
  
 But he insisted that it was slower and demanded that we fix it.
  
 My underling got fed up, walked to the back of the copier and cut two very large tie wraps that were around on the 30A 240V AC input.
  
 He asked "what was that for"? To which my partner explained, "The tie wraps were choking the AC from coming in the machine. This will let more electrons
 flow in"!
  
 The customer went to make a copy and cried out, "Now, that's what I'm talking about!. Seeee…that's the way it used to run when it was new!!!"


----------



## coastal1

Just committed to this. I love my BH Crack, but excited to try w/ my HD 650. Excited and scared about other HP this may lead to


----------



## Evshrug

runeight said:


> Since an opamp is a defined circuit topology made out of a collection of components, it's possible to make an opamp from discrete components. Most opamps are voltage feedback types (so far as I know), but some are current feedback circuits. *The Carbon uses our design for a current feedback opamp amplifier.*
> 
> 
> Just FYI, so far as I know nearly every solid state power amplifier that has ever been sold for the last 5 decades has been a discrete voltage feedback opamp.




Woah, really? That's gotta be a large part of the special sauce in this amp! Current feedback is really rare and requires very closely matched components, but gets around a lot of problems from negative feedback (when you use voltage). But, obviously you know what that entails in design challenge and you know the benefits, since you went for it anyway.

QStyle (spelling?) recently released a DAP with a current-feedback amp built-in, Tyll did an interview with them about it on Inner fidelity. I really don't need another DAP, but now I'm more understanding of why Cavalli Audio has "bespoke" status! Hope you don't mind the link, but it helps highlight how a current-feedback amp design avoids another source of distortion: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/show-newport-2015-questyle-qp1-and-qp1r-digital-audio-players


----------



## warrenpchi

evshrug said:


> Woah, really? That's gotta be a large part of the special sauce in this amp! Current feedback is *really rare and requires very closely matched components*, but gets around a lot of problems from negative feedback (when you use voltage). But, obviously you know what that entails in design challenge and you know the benefits, since you went for it anyway.


 
  
 Hence the four-month wait.


----------



## runeight

evshrug said:


> Woah, really? That's gotta be a large part of the special sauce in this amp! Current feedback is really rare and requires very closely matched components, but gets around a lot of problems from negative feedback (when you use voltage). But, obviously you know what that entails in design challenge and you know the benefits, since you went for it anyway.
> 
> QStyle (spelling?) recently released a DAP with a current-feedback amp built-in, Tyll did an interview with them about it on Inner fidelity. I really don't need another DAP, but now I'm more understanding of why Cavalli Audio has "bespoke" status! Hope you don't mind the link, but it helps highlight how a current-feedback amp design avoids another source of distortion: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/show-newport-2015-questyle-qp1-and-qp1r-digital-audio-players


 
  
 It is a bit rare in the audio world, but not unheard of (as you noted). Component matching is only critical in a few places and modern SMD resistors can be had a 0.1%. The Liquid Glass amp has been using essentially these buffers since its introduction a few years ago.
  
 The bigger problem was noise. Selecting resistor values in all the locations to minimize noise. Being careful with the use of active devices.
  
 I do think you guys will like this amp.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah but... I was excited _before_ I heard this piece of audio science, now that I know one more justified piece of WHY my friends who made it to CanJam SoCal heard something particularly nice with this amp, it makes me basically froth at the mouth. Gonna go through a few napkins between now and delivery, LOL!


----------



## x RELIC x

Well, the last little tidbit of info from Alex pushed me over the edge....... :eek:


Order #100000845


----------



## doctorjazz

Have to say, really like the interaction with Alex on the thread...seems like a really nice guy.


----------



## audiofrk

I'm force Alex to turn me to a diyer if it kills him!!!


----------



## TheChillburger

At least the 4 month wait will give me some time to pick out a new home DAC. Currently deciding between the Emotiva XDA-2 Gen2 and the Emotiva DC-1.


----------



## DCDC

If the finished unit ends up being powder-coated will it end up being a gloss black finish instead of the matte-black anodized finish? Just curious as to what the cosmetic differences would be exactly.


----------



## runeight

We will shoot for a semi-gloss, which should resemble the matte of the anodize.


----------



## coastal1

Thanks, I was wondering about this as I already have the Micro so just using that with the LC would obviously be preferable
  
 Quote:


maricius said:


> If anyone's curious of the iFi Micro iDSD and the Cavalli Liquid Carbon pairing, Mike Mercer has some impressions on them.


----------



## doctorjazz

Are we still 4 months away?


----------



## AxelCloris

doctorjazz said:


> Are we still 4 months away?


 
  
 Nope, just shy of the 2 months mark!


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> Nope, just shy of the 2 months mark!


 
 Tick, tick, tick, tick...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Late August is an approximate...


----------



## joeexp

runeight said:


> We will shoot for a semi-gloss, which should resemble the matte of the anodize.


 

 Is powder coating more durable then anodizing?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

joeexp said:


> Is powder coating more durable then anodizing?


 
  
 Typically, at least on aluminum...


----------



## doctorjazz

That's what I thought, but the 4 month posts were depressing, wanted to be sure.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I still regularly get emails saying that they were told Carbons are sold out. They are not sold out yet. Those numbers can't be easily subtracted to indicate quantities.


----------



## JK-47

#847


----------



## Sentinel92

How does the LC performs against the Schiit Lyr 2? Looking for something to really really drive the LCD2.2's.


----------



## DCDC

planning on pairing the LC with the micro iDSD as DAC too, really looking forward to it


----------



## MattTCG

sentinel92 said:


> How does the LC performs against the Schiit Lyr 2? Looking for something to really really drive the LCD2.2's.


 
  
 That's a bit of a loaded question. The lyr 2 can sound very different based on what tubes you've selected. While I'll commit to say that the Carbon and Ether are excellent together (Nashville meet), I haven't heard the LCD 2 with them. Lyr 2 is a proven performer with the lcd-2 and a safe bet.


----------



## Sentinel92

matttcg said:


> That's a bit of a loaded question. The lyr 2 can sound very different based on what tubes you've selected. While I'll commit to say that the Carbon and Ether are excellent together (Nashville meet), I haven't heard the LCD 2 with them. Lyr 2 is a proven performer with the lcd-2 and a safe bet.




Haha i know its a bit of a wide open question, but im comparing them based on stock settings. Really looking for something under $800 that can power my LCD2.2 well. Im also looking on the opposite direction where i can get the excellent Aune S16 and get a better amp later. I sold off my CLAS-DB/MK3B combo so i only have my Oppo HA2 at the moment, which is why i can get an amp first since the HA2 DaC is decent. On a bit of a crossroads here.


----------



## slambanna

Sure is quiet in here lately...  A good time for me to throw a question @runeight.
  
 I have electrostatic discharge (ESD) issues on occasion with my current DIY  4 pin XLR cable.  I'm just wondering if you think the LC will survive the small ESD events and/or if you have any advice to fix them?
  
 The 4.5m cable I built from Canare L-4E6S.  I left the shielding on most of the cable but did not terminate it to anything on the XLR end.  Should I connect the shielding to something?  Maybe to the outer XLR circular connector and then make sure that the female outer circle is grounded?
  
 So occasionally after listening to my HE-560's on my reclining faux-leather couch, when my feet touch the carpet which my cable is laying on, it causes what I perceive as a small ESD.  I hear a very faint pop or quick click in the 560's and the video and audio signal temporarily drop out (for 1.5 seconds) from my AVR.
  
 I use a Cambridge Audio 5.1 AVR in stereo mode from the speaker taps via a DIY little plastic box with binding posts and XLR which I use to switch between speakers and headphones.  It should be noted that while the Cambridge sounds quite good for an AVR it likes to temporarily drop audio and video signal all the time when it loses the lock on the signal.  For example the audio signal drops outs for 1.5s everytime I change a TV channel or start or resume playing a song or movie.  The point being, that I'm used to the AVR dropping signal. So I'm viewing the ESD's as fairly harmless.
  
 What's your take?
  
 The AVR seems no worse for wear but perhaps it has a protection circuit breaker that the LC does not.  Also the AVR has a common ground.  As in the left and right negative speaker posts had full continuity when checked it with a multi-meter (If that matters?).
  
 Looking forward to August.  I ended up deciding that the LC deserved no less than the Yggy to feed it and I'll probably end up with the HE-1000 on the output end.
  
 So the purchase of your "budget" amp seems to have pushed me into an end-game setup far quicker than I anticipated.  Thanks in advance.  Best of luck with the production!
  
 Edit:  I did some looking around and found that there should have been a ground lug on the male neutrik XLR connector that I should have connected the shielding to.  So I'll go ahead and do that assuming that's what the LC XLR expects to see.
 I guess the question now is do I need a separate ground somewhere on my Neutrik female XLR connector in my DIY plastic box.  Where does that ground lug on the male side connect to?


----------



## slambanna

Just for clarity... Here is the plastic box which is always connected to the speaker taps of the AVR then spliced to XLR and binding posts.  Of course only one of either the headphone or speakers is hooked up at a time. I didn't want to throw a switch in the signal path.
  


  
  
 I won't be using this box once I recieve the LC of course.  I'm just trying to be sure the ESD issues are gone by that time.  I'm hoping this is educational for the other LC owners.  If not I can take it to PM.


----------



## nudd

Also Alex would you care to comment on how well shielded the noise from the power supply will be from the rest of the amp? 
  
 The DAC i am currently using for example (geek pulse x infinite) suffered from a audible hum when run off the 12v smps compared to using a LPS...


----------



## runeight

slambanna said:


> Sure is quiet in here lately...  A good time for me to throw a question @runeight.
> 
> I have electrostatic discharge (ESD) issues on occasion with my current DIY  4 pin XLR cable.  I'm just wondering if you think the LC will survive the small ESD events and/or if you have any advice to fix them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Slambanna, I'm not sure exactly what you're describing, but I think it relates to an earlier conversation that we've had about using only 4 wire XLR interconnects from source to amp. If that's the case you must provide a real ground connection from the source to the Carbon. One way to do this is to run another cable from the source to amp whose purpose is solely to provide a ground connection.
  
 Did I get this right??


----------



## runeight

nudd said:


> Also Alex would you care to comment on how well shielded the noise from the power supply will be from the rest of the amp?
> 
> The DAC i am currently using for example (geek pulse x infinite) suffered from a audible hum when run off the 12v smps compared to using a LPS...


 
  
 I think I've already commented on this as have other people who have heard the Carbon. The noise levels, especially in balanced mode, are very low, low enough to be inaudible in IEMs running balanced and, in many cases, also running SE.


----------



## nudd

runeight said:


> I think I've already commented on this as have other people who have heard the Carbon. The noise levels, especially in balanced mode, are very low, low enough to be inaudible in IEMs running balanced and, in many cases, also running SE.




Awesome. Really looking forward to listening to this at the end of August ...


----------



## slambanna

runeight said:


> Slambanna, I'm not sure exactly what you're describing, but I think it relates to an earlier conversation that we've had about using only 4 wire XLR interconnects from source to amp. If that's the case you must provide a real ground connection from the source to the Carbon. One way to do this is to run another cable from the source to amp whose purpose is solely to provide a ground connection.
> 
> Did I get this right??


 
 Sorry I guess my post may have become a little convoluted with all the background information.
  
 What I believe happens is I build a static charge while listening in my reclining seat over a long period.  When I get out of the recliner and make contact with carpet there is an electrostatic discharge which seems to travel back through my headphone cable (which is lying on said carpet) and disrupts the operation of my DAC/amp (my audio video receiver).  So again I have an electrostatic discharge that travels through the headphone cable back into the amp via the speaker taps.
  
 My first question was: Can the Liquid Carbon survive these ESD events.
  
 My second question has to due with connecting the shielding on my balanced headphone 4 pin XLR cable to a separate ground.  Do you think that grounding the shielding would help take the brunt of the electrostatic shock via the shielding to a proper ground.
  

  
 So I'm hoping that by soldering the headphone cable shield to the ground lug marked on the above photo of a male 4-pin XLR (source of photo), the static charge will have a safer place to go.
  
 I'm asking you specifically because I thought you would know how this ground communicates with the female XLR headphone out on the LC.
  
 I hope that clarifies my inquiries.  Thanks.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Is your receiver your amp and DAC?  Or are there separate components?  If they are 2 boxes, how do you connect them?


----------



## slambanna

buttuglyjeff said:


> Is your receiver your amp and DAC?  Or are there separate components?  If they are 2 boxes, how do you connect them?


 
  
 It's basically a home theater 5.1 receiver (one box).  However I'm operating it in stereo only mode, because it was specifically designed to offer superior two channel performance compared to most AVR's.  So yes, I'm using the internal DAC and amp via the speaker taps.  All sources are connected via HDMI and spdif.  This setup will eventually be replaced by the Yggy>>>XLR interconnects>>> Liquid Carbon>>>balanced XLR headphone out.
  
 So I'm not having issues with XLR interconnects (which is what I believe Alex was thinking) because there are none.
  
 It's the XLR balanced headphone cable to speaker taps that is picking up the static discharge.  The plastic box pictured in my first post is basically just an XLR to speaker tap adapter.  So I believe that I need to attach the shielding to the male XLR ground lug and then run a separate grounding line to the female XLR plug in the plastic box.  Even then I'm not convinced it will alleviate the issue, but I'm hoping it will at least simulate the same XLR headphone out grounding situation that will be present on the LC.


----------



## Evshrug

I'm no expert...
Cables are usually shielded and wrapped in insulation, like rubber, so it's doubtful that contact between carpet on the ground and cable encased in insulation is where your electricity is arcing. Possibly between your ears and the driver, or maybe something in your headphone to speaker tap adapter isn't shielded or grounded. Connecting to the grounded connectors of the Liquid Carbon should have a safe connection to ground, and should be able to manage ESD events of "normal wear."

Of course, how much charge you're emitting on a regular basis (particularly in the dry winter) is hard to measure and average. It honestly might not be from the couch, the AVR amp might be charging you up (you big capacitor, you) through your headphones, and when you ground yourself to the carpet you release that energy. Makes more sense that way to me why it messes with your audio playback.


----------



## mikoss

Argh, I've been shocked through my headphones myself. It sucks ass. For me, if my sheets on the bed are full of static, and I have my headphones on, the path is through my ears/drivers/amp to ground. 

You could probably fix your situation by intentionally grounding yourself out periodically while you're in the chair. When you get up, you shouldn't have a potential to ground which might have otherwise gone through your cables.


----------



## audiofrk

@runeight


I am going to have a cable made would it be better to get it terminated as 4-pin xlr or rsa?


----------



## warrenpchi

audiofrk said:


> @runeight
> 
> I am going to have a cable made would it be better to get it terminated as 4-pin xlr or rsa?


 

 What is the cable for?


----------



## audiofrk

warrenpchi said:


> What is the cable for?




My headphones paradox minixlr connection.


----------



## warrenpchi

audiofrk said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > What is the cable for?
> ...


 

 4-pin XLR for sure then.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The only reason I'd go for the Kobiconn connector is if it was something small and light (like IEMs or a portable).


----------



## audiofrk

warrenpchi said:


> 4-pin XLR for sure then.     The only reason I'd go for the Kobiconn connector is if it was something small and light (like IEMs or a portable).




Any sound quality difference? Or is 4pin xlr just sturdier? I'm leaning towards the kubiconn,so I can add a rsa to 3.5mm jack adapter for portable use.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

audiofrk said:


> Any sound quality difference? Or is 4pin xlr just sturdier? I'm leaning towards the kubiconn,so I can add a rsa to 3.5mm jack adapter for portable use.


 
  
 Both are 4 wire, so XLR is just far more rugged.  I have both, and prefer XLR for desktop listening...


----------



## runeight

It's hard to say exactly what's causing the discharge. It's never happened to me so I've never tried to track something like that down.
  
 I agree with Warren though. There are actually 5 pins on the 4 pin XLR - the four signal wires and the shell/shield. On the Carbon all of the shells of the XLR connectors are connected to the metal ground (which is also the IEC ground).
  
 If you make a custom cable you can have it shielded so that the shield is connected to the shell of the connector which will, in turn, ground the shield. This might help to mitigate the problem. But, if the ESD is coming from the actual headphones at or near your ears, then this probably won't help at all.
  
 The output stage of the Carbon is pretty tough, but with enough ESD it probably can be damaged. How much is enough I don't know. It's not a test that we've run in our lab, but I think it would have to be a lot.


----------



## audiofrk

thanks guys 4-pins it is.


----------



## warrenpchi

audiofrk said:


> thanks guys 4-pins it is.


 

 Cool!  My only reason for going Kobiconn is that if it were an IEM or portable, I wouldn't want a heavy, metal thing-a-ma-jig hanging off the other end of [what would almost certainly be] something that is more delicate than a full-sized headphone.


----------



## slambanna

Thanks Alex.  
  
 That pretty much confirms what I was thinking.  I'll get the shielding grounded properly and see if that helps.
  
 If not I'll find a way to keep myself grounded or keep the discharge away from the cable.


----------



## warrenpchi

slambanna said:


> find a way to keep myself grounded


 
  
 In this hobby?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  One can but dream I suppose...


----------



## x RELIC x

Any of you guys know where to pick up a 2.5mm TRRS to RSA Kobiconn adaptor for my JH Angie that costs less than $70?

I'm looking for pre-built as I never have the time for DIY. Plussound Audio seems too pricey for a $10 DIY connector.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Any of you guys know where to pick up a 2.5mm TRRS to RSA Kobiconn adaptor for my JH Angie that costs less than $70?
> 
> I'm looking for pre-built as I never have the time for DIY. Plussound Audio seems too pricey for a $10 DIY connector.


 
  
 Every time I'm scratching my head looking for something like this, someone suggests eBay.  Have you tried there yet?


----------



## x RELIC x

Been bitten by fleabay. Not going there again, but thanks anyway.


----------



## jjacq

x relic x said:


> Any of you guys know where to pick up a 2.5mm TRRS to RSA Kobiconn adaptor for my JH Angie that costs less than $70?
> 
> I'm looking for pre-built as I never have the time for DIY. Plussound Audio seems too pricey for a $10 DIY connector.


 
 I have a friend that made me one. I will try to follow up with him tomorrow if you don't hear from him tonight.


----------



## x RELIC x

jjacq said:


> I have a friend that made me one. I will try to follow up with him tomorrow if you don't hear from him tonight.




Thanks! I'm thinking this is the way to go as I've already had some PMs. Love this community.


----------



## AxelCloris

x relic x said:


> Any of you guys know where to pick up a 2.5mm TRRS to RSA Kobiconn adaptor for my JH Angie that costs less than $70?
> 
> I'm looking for pre-built as I never have the time for DIY. Plussound Audio seems too pricey for a $10 DIY connector.


 
  
 My suggestion is to reach out to one of the cable manufacturers and see if they'll quote you a price. Blue Jean Cable, Headamp, Toxic Cables, PLAudio... there are a bunch of makers who have reasonable budget prices and you can probably get an adapter custom ordered for under $70 from the right place.


----------



## x RELIC x

axelcloris said:


> My suggestion is to reach out to one of the cable manufacturers and see if they'll quote you a price. Blue Jean Cable, Headamp, Toxic Cables, PLAudio... there are a bunch of makers who have reasonable budget prices and you can probably get an adapter custom ordered for under $70 from the right place.




Again, a great suggestion. Never been down the custom connector road before. I'll go the DIY buddy route, or I'll contact one of the usual suspects listed above. I would have thought there was a readily available connector already available for a reasonable price. Oh well. Thanks again.


----------



## nudd

x relic x said:


> Again, a great suggestion. Never been down the custom connector road before. I'll go the DIY buddy route, or I'll contact one of the usual suspects listed above. I would have thought there was a readily available connector already available for a reasonable price. Oh well. Thanks again.




I am thinking of getting kobiconn terminations for my IEMS with adapters for 4pin XLR, TRS and maybe TRRS.


----------



## hemtmaker

x relic x said:


> Any of you guys know where to pick up a 2.5mm TRRS to RSA Kobiconn adaptor for my JH Angie that costs less than $70?
> 
> I'm looking for pre-built as I never have the time for DIY. Plussound Audio seems too pricey for a $10 DIY connector.




Have a word with Ted from the HeadphoneLounge


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

nudd said:


> I am thinking of getting kobiconn terminations for my IEMS with adapters for 4pin XLR, TRS and maybe TRRS.


 
  
 May I suggest going with a first termination of mini 4 pin XLR instead, then have adapters off of that instead.  The Kobiconn ends in a right angle, and would make for some odd adapters...


----------



## warrenpchi

buttuglyjeff said:


> May I suggest going with a first termination of mini 4 pin XLR instead, then have adapters off of that instead.


 
  
 That's actually what Currawong did a couple of years back.  He had WyWires build him a series of different heads and tails... heads being different headphone terminations, tails being different amp terminations.  I forget what the central linkage termination was, but I believe that it might have been mini-XLR.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> That's actually what Currawong did a couple of years back.  He had WyWires build him a series of different heads and tails... heads being different headphone terminations, tails being different amp terminations.  I forget what the central linkage termination was, but I believe that it might have been mini-XLR.


 
  
 I have 4 headphones cabled that way, and pig tails for 1/8", 1/4", RSA, and 4 pin XLR...


----------



## onlychild

.


----------



## Serenitty

onlychild said:


> .


 

 Sho-nuff.. 
  
 onlychild's Avatar reference.  I wonder how many people actually saw that movie..


----------



## warrenpchi

serenitty said:


> onlychild said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


 

 I did... and in theaters no less...


----------



## onlychild

The 30 year anniversary of the movie was just a few months ago, and still one of my favs.

Anyways, I had actually responded to the post of a 2.5mm trrs to RSA stating that I had the plussound adapter and loved it, then I re-read the original post and saw that the poster thought the plus sound adapter was too expensive so I deleted my previous post.


----------



## nudd

buttuglyjeff said:


> I have 4 headphones cabled that way, and pig tails for 1/8", 1/4", RSA, and 4 pin XLR...




Makee sense. Thanks for that very useful piece of advice!


----------



## Audio Addict

axelcloris said:


> My suggestion is to reach out to one of the cable manufacturers and see if they'll quote you a price. Blue Jean Cable, Headamp, Toxic Cables, PLAudio... there are a bunch of makers who have reasonable budget prices and you can probably get an adapter custom ordered for under $70 from the right place.




Peter aka DHC has his ultras short but it is on the higher cost side.


----------



## elwappo99

Since we're on the topic of cables....
  
  
 I've got a pair of UERM's I'd love to hook up to the Carbon when it (eventually) shows up. What's the best way? I've got a cable terminated in a 3.5mm TRS that I can use as a base. I was thinking of using like a 4 pin mini xlr with an adapter to a TRS and XLR, but then it gets to bit a bit bulky with 2 mini XLR connected.


----------



## xuan87

elwappo99 said:


> Since we're on the topic of cables....
> 
> 
> I've got a pair of UERM's I'd love to hook up to the Carbon when it (eventually) shows up. What's the best way? I've got a cable terminated in a 3.5mm TRS that I can use as a base. I was thinking of using like a 4 pin mini xlr with an adapter to a TRS and XLR, but then it gets to bit a bit bulky with 2 mini XLR connected.


 
  
 I think having a CIEM cable terminated in a 4 pin mini XLR is the best option. However, if you foresee yourself maybe getting other portable amps or AK daps in the future, you might want to consider getting a cable terminated with the RSA plug or the 2.5 TRRS plug.


----------



## warrenpchi




----------



## jjacq

Now I'm all jelly. What DAC?


----------



## warrenpchi

Lol, just trying it out with a humble little CEntrance DACport LX (seen to the left in that pic).


----------



## asgeir101

warrenpchi said:


>




When can we expect impressions?


----------



## warrenpchi

asgeir101 said:


> When can we expect impressions?


 
  
 Out of respect for my friend Arly (@DigitalFreak), I will wait until after his review comes out at Headphone.Guru.  That said, here's a preview...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I may have to buy another one as a spare in case my first one ever dies.


----------



## DCDC

*heavybreathing*

 is that the final proto unit or is that the absolute final unit that will be sent to us?


----------



## warrenpchi

dcdc said:


> *heavybreathing*
> 
> is that the final proto unit or is that the absolute final unit that will be sent to us?


 

 It's still a proto, but one of the last ones before it was finalized.  I believe there are a few more build and cosmetic tweaks in the production version, but this one has the final sound signature.


----------



## x RELIC x

Spoiler: Warning: Liquid Carbon!






warrenpchi said:


>


----------



## warrenpchi

x relic x said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Liquid Carbon!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL! But wait, it gets even better!



 Lord I love this hobby!


----------



## x RELIC x

Just stop!

Get me a towel............


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Carbon reinforced Glass......nice!!!
  
 I bet those 2 amps are very complimentary...


----------



## joeexp

warrenpchi said:


> Out of respect for my friend Arly (@DigitalFreak), I will wait until after his review comes out at Headphone.Guru.  That said, here's a preview...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 When is his review due?? [Headphone.Guru]


----------



## MattTCG

I would guess Monday.  ^^


----------



## Stillhart

joeexp said:


> When is his review due?? [Headphone.Guru]


 
  
 Early July


----------



## immtbiker

@Warren. If I were you, I would skip the Abyss, use the Jecklin Floats (or similar) in the poster behind that setup, and call "no touch-backs!"


----------



## digitalzed

warrenpchi said:


> LOL! But wait, it gets even better!
> 
> 
> 
> Lord I love this hobby!


 
 Man, you just like rubbing it in!


----------



## elwappo99

dcdc said:


> **heavybreathing**
> 
> is that the final proto unit or is that the absolute final unit that will be sent to us?


 
  
 Are you on head-fi at the gym? That's some serious addiction dedication.


----------



## nanoevil

damn so excited to get my hands on mine...so Jelly right now. No demo units in Asia hahaha


----------



## defbear

I cant believe its the middle of June already!


----------



## audiofrk

this just in the cavalli will be ready in july
  
  
REPORTING FROM MY DREAMS


----------



## DigitalFreak

Hi guys, sorry I've been a no show. I've been rather busy of late plus, once I start writing a review I usually try an keep out of an impressions thread. It's usually best that way so as not to have my opinion swayed. It's just a rule of mine. For those interested, yes the review will be up at the beginning of July. My final draft has been submitted to Headphone Guru and it's been added to the publishing schedule. In the mean time I'll gladly answer any questions anyone has. 

Also, since doing the review and hearing the Carbon I've been busy brainstorming and building a whole new headphone rig around the Liquid Carbon. The new chain to be consists of the following. First, the Carbon won't be my only amp in this new chain. I've decided to use the Carbon as my go to solid state and CIEM home amp and have a WA6 amp to fulfill my tube needs. I've also invested in balanced cables, ALO Green Line cables to be exact, for my headphone cable needs and also my RCA interconnect needs. My power cable needs I've gone with Marrow Audio. To round off the rig tweaks I've elected to also get a PS Audio power conditioner. I know some have said it wasn't needed but I wanted to experiment to see how a good power conditioner would effect the sound. Maybe it won't make a lick of difference, who knows, we'll see. My biggest step in building this new audio chain was a DAC upgrade. My CLAS-db is up for sale and I've bought myself a Chord 2Qute. The 2Qute has made a huge difference with my WA6 and should be a great match for my Carbon once it arrives. This is my near end game setup guys. Still up in the air is my source component. The new rig is being placed downstairs where its almost always quiet and where there's lots of room for placing a nice sized table. My current laptop which is what i'm typing on now I need for other duties and is located upstairs in my bedroom where room is at a premium. I have an old Toshiba Satellite laptop I recently reformatted and works which I'm considering using for the new rig. The big problem with this idea is although I have a large amount of my music stored on an external HDD I listen to a lot of my music via TIDAL. I can't install TIDAL on my old laptop because it runs XP and TIDAL won't run on it. I'm considering going with something else such as maybe my iPad Mini with TIDAL installed. I figure if the 2Qute won't handshake with my iPAD Mini i can just place a Schiit Wyred in the chain and it should work then. As of now I'm still unsure what route I should go. Once I have everything together I'll throw some pics up for everyone to see.

If you guys have any questions ask away.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Pics are always a good place to start. Looking forward to the review.


----------



## x RELIC x

DigitalFreak, I'd be curious how much of the volume pot you were able to comfortably use with IEMs, if you tested any.


----------



## DCDC

elwappo99 said:


> Are you on head-fi at the gym? That's some serious addiction dedication.


----------



## runeight

The amp has unity gain so this is totally dependent on source levels.


----------



## MattTCG

@runeight....any pictures that you could share would ease the pain of the waiting process.


----------



## warrenpchi

x relic x said:


> @DigitalFreak, I'd be curious how much of the volume pot you were able to comfortably use with IEMs, if you tested any.


 

 Hmm, I'm pretty sure that I'm not stepping on Arly's toes with this one, as we only have one IEM in common.
  
 For me, whereas the minimum volume = 07:00 (@ unity gain)

 UERM = 08:45
 K10 = 08:30
 Layla = 08:55
 1P2 = 08:45
 Noble 4 = 08:30

 Anything higher than what's listed above would be painful (for me).


----------



## runeight

But not to be too much of a PITA...

In unity gain the amp is passing the levels coming from the source. If low level out, higher volume setting and vice versa. 

However coming in SE the signal is phase split and so is effectively doubled in amplitude.

Most DACs with both outputs will have half the level from SE thereby equalizing when it hits the amps. For example when I plug both from my PSA DACII there is no change in volume switching inputs on the Carbon.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> Hi guys, sorry I've been a no show. I've been rather busy of late plus, once I start writing a review I usually try an keep out of an impressions thread. It's usually best that way so as not to have my opinion swayed. It's just a rule of mine. For those interested, yes the review will be up at the beginning of July. My final draft has been submitted to Headphone Guru and it's been added to the publishing schedule. In the mean time I'll gladly answer any questions anyone has.
> 
> Also, since doing the review and hearing the Carbon I've been busy brainstorming and building a whole new headphone rig around the Liquid Carbon. The new chain to be consists of the following. First, the Carbon won't be my only amp in this new chain. I've decided to use the Carbon as my go to solid state and CIEM home amp and have a WA6 amp to fulfill my tube needs. I've also invested in balanced cables, ALO Green Line cables to be exact, for my headphone cable needs and also my RCA interconnect needs. My power cable needs I've gone with Marrow Audio. To round off the rig tweaks I've elected to also get a PS Audio power conditioner. I know some have said it wasn't needed but I wanted to experiment to see how a good power conditioner would effect the sound. Maybe it won't make a lick of difference, who knows, we'll see. My biggest step in building this new audio chain was a DAC upgrade. My CLAS-db is up for sale and I've bought myself a Chord 2Qute. The 2Qute has made a huge difference with my WA6 and should be a great match for my Carbon once it arrives. This is my near end game setup guys. Still up in the air is my source component. The new rig is being placed downstairs where its almost always quiet and where there's lots of room for placing a nice sized table. My current laptop which is what i'm typing on now I need for other duties and is located upstairs in my bedroom where room is at a premium. I have an old Toshiba Satellite laptop I recently reformatted and works which I'm considering using for the new rig. The big problem with this idea is although I have a large amount of my music stored on an external HDD I listen to a lot of my music via TIDAL. I can't install TIDAL on my old laptop because it runs XP and TIDAL won't run on it. I'm considering going with something else such as maybe my iPad Mini with TIDAL installed. I figure if the 2Qute won't handshake with my iPAD Mini i can just place a Schiit Wyred in the chain and it should work then. As of now I'm still unsure what route I should go. Once I have everything together I'll throw some pics up for everyone to see.
> 
> If you guys have any questions ask away.


 
  
 You might see if there's a TIDAL player that runs on RaspberryPi.  I know Volumio works with Spotify.  That's a great way to have a small, efficient, cheap source.  My setup cost like $60-80, which included a wifi adapter.


----------



## x RELIC x

Thanks warrenpchi.


----------



## mandrake50

stillhart said:


> You might see if there's a TIDAL player that runs on RaspberryPi.  I know Volumio works with Spotify.  That's a great way to have a small, efficient, cheap source.  My setup cost like $60-80, which included a wifi adapter.


 

 The easiest thing to do would be to put  Win 7 on that XP laptop. Cheapest and least complex...with the shortest learning curve.


----------



## Evshrug

If that laptop can run Win7... And I'm pretty sure a legal upgrade license still costs more than a RaspberryPi. I bought a Hifiberry Digi+ add-on, so I have USB, optical, and coax digital outputs.


----------



## mandrake50

evshrug said:


> If that laptop can run Win7... And I'm pretty sure a legal upgrade license still costs more than a RaspberryPi. I bought a Hifiberry Digi+ add-on, so I have USB, optical, and coax digital outputs.


 

 Yes, though one can pick up Win 7 OEM licenses pretty cheap. $50 dollars last I checked.  They also do not have to go through the learning curve of setting up, configuring, and using the Raspberry.
  
  
 It is all relative, from the perspective of a person who knows the Pi and has successfully set it up.. no sweat. For the person that has to figure out what to buy, what pieces and parts to use, and even how to talk to the damn thing... it is a bit different.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I'm Not to crazy about the idea of learning the ins and outs of RaspberryPi. I have little enough time on my hands as is. My Toshiba Satellite is nearly 10 years old so it's iffy that it could run Windows 7. The ideal solution would be to just get another laptop but my current one is starting to show its age and I think it's only a matter of time before it goes off into silicon heaven. If I buy a new laptop I'd rather it be for doing needed work and not just sit there acting as a jukebox. There's always a chrome book I guess??


----------



## aqsw

Digital Freak,

Hey Arley, I met you at a meet in Lindenwoods a couple years go. I was the old fart with the lcd2s and the schiit stack. Lyr and bifrost..
Anyways, I'm really looking forward to your review. It's crazy that a small city like Winnipeg has such a dedicated headphone group. 
Yourself and Nathan are so knowledgable, and it really helps us little guys out.
Thanks again, and can you please get that review out. 

I bought anyways, but I just like being pampered.

P.S. We will have to have a dac shootout. Your 2qute aginst my Hegel.


----------



## Evshrug

I felt the same way about the Pi, but the setup process turned out to be:
1. Buy Pi
2. Download Volumo from the web to a micro-SD card.
3. Accept delivery of Pi, take it out of the shipping box, plug in the USB power supply and MicroSD card, DAC. Ethernet cable just for now to connect it to your network.
4. On a computer, go to the Volumo website now hosted by the Pi on your home network, and start playing music from your HDD or home sharing.


Tada! If you have an iDevice or iTunes, the Volumo player will show up as an AirPlay option too, so that's easy too. If you want the Pi unwired from your router, then get a cheap wifi USB stick and tell Volumo settings what your WiFi network password is.


----------



## Evshrug

Hope I'm not too OT...
But while I'm on the fringe, I've got a PM-3 (that can go balanced) on the way! The question is, use that or get a balanced CIEM? Options!


----------



## aqsw

mandrake50 said:


> The easiest thing to do would be to put  Win 7 on that XP laptop. Cheapest and least complex...with the shortest learning curve.




Most of the time it's not really worth it. The proseccer, ram, is outdated and won't run alot of the new software. I just bought a laptop with 750 gig ,8 ram, free upgrde to indows 10 if I want. Bought it used for 200 cdn.


----------



## runeight

Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.


----------



## aqsw

evshrug said:


> Hope I'm not too OT...
> But while I'm on the fringe, I've got a PM-3 (that can go balanced) on the way! The question is, use that or get a balanced CIEM? Options!




Man, I want my pm3s balanced. Most people say it doesn't matter. Well, I say it does, because they are MY PM3s.


----------



## longbowbbs

runeight said:


> Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.


 
 Very nice Alex! You need to stake a claim there.


----------



## aqsw

runeight said:


> Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.




I was going eeny meeny miney mo on the the two buy buttons of the Ether or the Liquid Gold.
The Ether got it, but that GOLD is still calling me.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Hope I'm not too OT...
> But while I'm on the fringe, I've got a PM-3 (that can go balanced) on the way! The question is, use that or get a balanced CIEM? Options!


 
  
 ¿Por qué no los dos?


----------



## nanoevil

digitalfreak said:


> Hi guys, sorry I've been a no show. I've been rather busy of late plus, once I start writing a review I usually try an keep out of an impressions thread. It's usually best that way so as not to have my opinion swayed. It's just a rule of mine. For those interested, yes the review will be up at the beginning of July. My final draft has been submitted to Headphone Guru and it's been added to the publishing schedule. In the mean time I'll gladly answer any questions anyone has.
> 
> Also, since doing the review and hearing the Carbon I've been busy brainstorming and building a whole new headphone rig around the Liquid Carbon. The new chain to be consists of the following. First, the Carbon won't be my only amp in this new chain. I've decided to use the Carbon as my go to solid state and CIEM home amp and have a WA6 amp to fulfill my tube needs. I've also invested in balanced cables, ALO Green Line cables to be exact, for my headphone cable needs and also my RCA interconnect needs. My power cable needs I've gone with Marrow Audio. To round off the rig tweaks I've elected to also get a PS Audio power conditioner. I know some have said it wasn't needed but I wanted to experiment to see how a good power conditioner would effect the sound. Maybe it won't make a lick of difference, who knows, we'll see. My biggest step in building this new audio chain was a DAC upgrade. My CLAS-db is up for sale and I've bought myself a Chord 2Qute. The 2Qute has made a huge difference with my WA6 and should be a great match for my Carbon once it arrives. This is my near end game setup guys. Still up in the air is my source component. The new rig is being placed downstairs where its almost always quiet and where there's lots of room for placing a nice sized table. My current laptop which is what i'm typing on now I need for other duties and is located upstairs in my bedroom where room is at a premium. I have an old Toshiba Satellite laptop I recently reformatted and works which I'm considering using for the new rig. The big problem with this idea is although I have a large amount of my music stored on an external HDD I listen to a lot of my music via TIDAL. I can't install TIDAL on my old laptop because it runs XP and TIDAL won't run on it. I'm considering going with something else such as maybe my iPad Mini with TIDAL installed. I figure if the 2Qute won't handshake with my iPAD Mini i can just place a Schiit Wyred in the chain and it should work then. As of now I'm still unsure what route I should go. Once I have everything together I'll throw some pics up for everyone to see.
> 
> If you guys have any questions ask away.


 
  
 I too will be using my old Toshiba Satellite laptop (AMD 64 turion x 2) running XP but will be upgrading the OS to 7 and swapping out the 500gb HDD with a 128 SSD to act as my main source...battery on that thing is pretty much shot / dead so I'll always be plugged in. I think you can try the SSD route too to make your old Toshi up and running.


----------



## Stillhart

mandrake50 said:


> Yes, though one can pick up Win 7 OEM licenses pretty cheap. $50 dollars last I checked.  They also do not have to go through the learning curve of setting up, configuring, and using the Raspberry.
> 
> 
> It is all relative, from the perspective of a person who knows the Pi and has successfully set it up.. no sweat. For the person that has to figure out what to buy, what pieces and parts to use, and even how to talk to the damn thing... it is a bit different.


 
  
 You're overstating drastically how hard it is to setup RPi.  Anyone who can install Windows 7 on a laptop can CERTAINLY install Volumio on RPi.  And the whole RPi will cost less than a LEGAL copy of Win7.  (OEM isn't legal unless you're an OEM and reselling the license so why people pay for it is beyond me.  If you're going to use the software illegally, just pirate it for free.)
  


digitalfreak said:


> I'm Not to crazy about the idea of learning the ins and outs of RaspberryPi. I have little enough time on my hands as is. My Toshiba Satellite is nearly 10 years old so it's iffy that it could run Windows 7. The ideal solution would be to just get another laptop but my current one is starting to show its age and I think it's only a matter of time before it goes off into silicon heaven. If I buy a new laptop I'd rather it be for doing needed work and not just sit there acting as a jukebox. There's always a chrome book I guess??


 
  
 Arly, it's really not even close to complicated.  $60-80 into a RPi and all of a quarter-hour to download and install the software (and by install I mean copy it onto an SD card and turn on your RPi).
  


evshrug said:


> I felt the same way about the Pi, but the setup process turned out to be:
> 1. Buy Pi
> 2. Download Volumo from the web to a micro-SD card.
> 3. Accept delivery of Pi, take it out of the shipping box, plug in the USB power supply and MicroSD card, DAC. Ethernet cable just for now to connect it to your network.
> ...


 
  
 Yup, this.  :-D
  
 Sorry for the OT, but what else are we gonna talk about for the next two months?  lol


----------



## x RELIC x

Every time I see a new post on this thread I'm hopeful there's news the LC production has started and finished early and shipping will commence immediately.

Every. Single. Time.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> ¿Por qué no los dos?



Money. Might be able to have both soon-ish perhaps. We'll see.




x relic x said:


> Every time I see a new post on this thread I'm hopeful there's news the LC production has started and finished early and shipping will commence immediately.
> 
> Every. Single. Time.



I hear ya! I listen to Liquid Carbon and Liquid Crimson with an Ether all the time while I'm sleeping... But it's the time of warm summer nights, so even my dreams are on wait list!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> I'm Not to crazy about the idea of learning the ins and outs of RaspberryPi. I have little enough time on my hands as is. My Toshiba Satellite is nearly 10 years old so it's iffy that it could run Windows 7. The ideal solution would be to just get another laptop but my current one is starting to show its age and I think it's only a matter of time before it goes off into silicon heaven. If I buy a new laptop I'd rather it be for doing needed work and not just sit there acting as a jukebox. There's always a chrome book I guess??


 
  
 ...or a Windows 8 tablet.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

runeight said:


> Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.


 

 I keep hearing and seeing raido and tv commercials for some kind of mac and cheese.  And the old timey prospector keeps saying "get your own liquid gold".  And ever time I say, "Some day 49er, some day....."


----------



## audiofrk

runeight said:


> Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.




Hahaha,I like your post Alex. So proper and courtious with just a hint of dry humor. Mine are usually crass and terse.


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.




So does the altitude effect the measurements and SQ?


----------



## bearFNF

mscott58 said:


> So does the altitude effect the measurements and SQ?



The first time I read your post I thought it said "...does the *attitude * effect the measurements..."


----------



## runeight

mscott58 said:


> So does the altitude effect the measurements and SQ?


 
  
 I don't know. RMNP is a big place and I haven't found the lab yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But, to totally derail the thread, here is a photo of Emerald Lake in RMNP.  About 8AM 6/18.


----------



## lukeap69

runeight said:


> I don't know. RMNP is a big place and I haven't found the lab yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Fantastic photo!


----------



## MattTCG

Awesome pic!! It's 95 here in Atlanta GA. brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## runeight

Oh, what the heck.....


----------



## nudd

buttuglyjeff said:


> ...or a Windows 8 tablet.




There does not appear to be any cheap windows 8 tablets that have separate power supply and usb though.

I have been thinking about getting a Pipo x7 (win 8) and running it headless. Its intended use is I think to be connected to a TV. It uses a Z3736F processor which is okay but may struggle if you want to for high quality upsampling on jRiver, etc. I could probably run a full blown Linux installation too.

Is anyone familiar with Linux and any high quality Foobar like equivalent?

There is also a Pipo x8 available for less than $200 which has a 7 inch touchscreen built in.

Right now I just use my Z2 running UAPP. I can install Tidal I guess. It has native USB 2.0 audio support out of the box, but it natively resamples everything to 192khz, even spotify and google play, so it will not keep the bitperfect camp happy ...


----------



## x RELIC x

runeight said:


> Oh, what the heck.....




I get it!! Liquid Carbon in August due to an awesome summer holiday. 

Great place to be by the way, Enjoy!


----------



## mscott58

bearfnf said:


> The first time I read your post I thought it said "...does the *attitude * effect the measurements..."


 
 Attitude definitely does!


----------



## runeight

x relic x said:


> I get it!! Liquid Carbon in August due to an awesome summer holiday.
> 
> Great place to be by the way, Enjoy!




Thx. It's more like grab a few days while I can.


----------



## x RELIC x

runeight said:


> Thx. It's more like grab a few days while I can.




Man, enjoy it when you can. I was just giving you a rough time, mostly because that's where I'd prefer to be.... Jealous. :wink_face:


----------



## Evshrug

Right, only so much you can do after the design is done and the mass-production order is put in.


----------



## immtbiker

Oh great Wizard of Audio-Valhalla…please enlighten us on the true meaning of life?
  
 Is it, that all Carbon-based lifeforms need Liquid Carbon to find ultimate fulfillment?


----------



## reddog

immtbiker said:


> Oh great Wizard of Audio-Valhalla…please enlighten us on the true meaning of life?
> 
> Is it, that all Carbon-based lifeforms need Liquid Carbon to find ultimate fulfillment?



+1 lol well said sir.


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> Oh, what the heck.....



Nice view Alex! What portable gear do you use by the way?


----------



## vhsownsbeta

immtbiker said:


> Oh great Wizard of Audio-Valhalla…please enlighten us on the true meaning of life?
> 
> Is it, that all Carbon-based lifeforms need Liquid Carbon to find ultimate fulfillment?




Whenever come across someone having an existential crisis I think of this...

http://youtu.be/OQSNhk5ICTI


----------



## Stillhart

What does it mean?!?
  
 No, seriously, @runeight, what does it mean? 
  
 EDIT - Okay, I wasn't actually being serious.


----------



## ying

I am really curious to see how the Liquid Carbon would pair with the Sennheiser Hd800, anyone ever tried?


----------



## warrenpchi

Unfortunately, I don't have an HD 800.


----------



## dBel84

warrenpchi said:


> Unfortunately, I don't have an HD 800.


 
 consider yourself a lucky man  ..dB


----------



## warrenpchi

dbel84 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, I don't have an HD 800.
> ...


 
  
 LOLOL!  And if I were to get one, it would be for comparative A/B purposes, which means I'd have leave it unmodded.


----------



## longbowbbs

dbel84 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, I don't have an HD 800.
> ...


 
 Hey Now!!! Play nice Donald! Don't make me come over with my pair and trounce the Planars..


----------



## Stillhart

Well I can tell you that it sounds fantastic with the HE-1000 and Theta Basic II running balanced.  (I'm going to have to try the Theta in SE to see the difference for all the folks in the DAC thread.)  It also sounds good with the HE-560, ZMF Blackwood, ZMF x Vibro, and Fidelio X2.  I haven't tried it with the Q701, PM-3, HD650 or HP100 yet, but I suspect the answer will be the same.
  
 On a side note, I may have too many headphones right now...


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> Well I can tell you that it sounds fantastic...


 
  
 You have a Carbon?!?!


----------



## money4me247

stillhart said:


> Well I can tell you that it sounds fantastic with the HE-1000 and Theta Basic II running balanced.  (I'm going to have to try the Theta in SE to see the difference for all the folks in the DAC thread.)  It also sounds good with the HE-560, ZMF Blackwood, ZMF x Vibro, and Fidelio X2.  I haven't tried it with the Q701, PM-3, HD650 or HP100 yet, but I suspect the answer will be the same.
> 
> *On a side note, I may have too many headphones right now...*




i can totally emphasize with that sort of feeling


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> You have a Carbon?!?!


 
  
 Maaaaaybe...


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > You have a Carbon?!?!
> ...


 

 Okay, here's where I have a chance to say it... IMPRESSIONS?!?!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

...I'm on the wrong coast.


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> You have a Carbon?!?!


 
  
 He sent me photographic bragging evidence, he has one at the moment.


----------



## bearFNF

It sounded great with my HD800's, hence the reason I bought one...


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> Okay, here's where I have a chance to say it... IMPRESSIONS?!?!


 
  
 It's kind of muddy and congested.  I've tried every source and every headphone and it just doesn't sound that good.  It picks up EMI from my cell phone from like 4 feet away.  And it didn't even come with a power cord!!  Everyone cancel your orders!!
  
_Note:  The above statements are almost all factually incorrect.  They were made in jest.  I was being a sea fish._
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!I



I'll post some real impressions when I get some more time to listen to it.  For now I can say that it's very clean and surprisingly powerful.  It sounds really good for such a small unit.  Color me impressed once again.


----------



## x RELIC x

^^ LOL!!^^


----------



## elwappo99

buttuglyjeff said:


> ...I'm on the wrong coast.


 
  
 I'm on the right coast and my complimentary unit hasn't shown up!


----------



## immtbiker

stillhart said:


> On a side note, I may have too many headphones right now...


 
  
 You can never be too skinny, have too much money, or have too many headphones…I think?!?!


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> Unfortunately, I don't have an HD 800.







dbel84 said:


> consider yourself a lucky man  ..dB




I'm with @dBel84 on that one. The HD800 and I just don't get along. I at least have come to understand them. They are fine headphone, just not for me…


----------



## doctorjazz

immtbiker said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > On a side note, I may have too many headphones right now...
> ...




I believe there is a law about the amount of money you have being inversely proportional to the number of headphones you have...


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> It sounded great with my HD800's, hence the reason I bought one...


Yay! Hooray! Wonderful news


----------



## warrenpchi

I can also confirm that it sounds terrific with ZMF's new Omni, in case anyone is looking at that headphone.


----------



## chowmein83

defbear said:


> Yay! Hooray! Wonderful news


 

 Agreed with @bearFNF, the Liquid Carbon (along with the Liquid Gold and Liquid Glass) when I heard it at CanJam makes the HD800 slightly warmer and less clinical, which makes for a great listen. Also, the Liquid Carbon in no way diminishes the large soundstage of the HD800.


----------



## Evshrug

doctorjazz said:


> I believe there is a law about the amount of money you have being inversely proportional to the number of headphones you have...



Traded two headphones for one, now I have 11 headphones. Is it how much money you've saved or how much money you make a year? What is the too much ratio?

I figure, so long as I pay my bills and have an emergency reserve, also putting some away for retirement, might as well live and enjoy life. Though sometimes I buy cheap groceries XD

Still, very excited about the carbon. I feel like I read the spec (and this spec hardly tells the whole story!), but what is the Liquid Carbon's output impedance (@1khz, if you must be pendantic, but at a common reference point or whatever)? Thanks!


----------



## LajostheHun

Is there an adapter for the Sony MDR Z7's dual TRS to any of the Liquid carbon's 4pin XLR and mini? I tried to do a search the only thing came up is this.
  
 http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42300604499
  
 Naturally looking something in states side. Thanks.
  
 Sorry if this has been asked, long thread.


----------



## gr8soundz

lajosthehun said:


> Is there an adapter for the Sony MDR Z7's dual TRS to any of the Liquid carbon's 4pin XLR and mini? I tried to do a search the only thing came up is this.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42300604499
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been searching for one of those too. Hard to tell if that one is balanced or if its a splitter to use 2 headphones off a 4-pin (I actually found one that does exactly that believe it or not).
  
 Figure I'll have to get one custom made.


----------



## LajostheHun

gr8soundz said:


> I've been searching for one of those too. Hard to tell if that one is balanced or if its a splitter to use 2 headphones off a 4-pin (I actually found one that does exactly that believe it or not).
> 
> Figure I'll have to get one custom made.


 
 If you do, who would do the job?


----------



## gr8soundz

lajosthehun said:


> If you do, who would do the job?


 
  
 I get most of my custom stuff from Surf Cables (www.surfcables.com)
  
 Currently have a balanced cable on the way for my Oppo PM-3s to Pono player.
  
 The adapter(s) are next since the LC is still 2 months away.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

lajosthehun said:


> Is there an adapter for the Sony MDR Z7's dual TRS to any of the Liquid carbon's 4pin XLR and mini? I tried to do a search the only thing came up is this.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42300604499
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm going to have one of the Kimber Kable options modded for the LC...


----------



## MattTCG

Joe at headphoneaudiophile.com is carrying Kimber and I think can do custom options.
  
 http://www.headphoneaudiophile.com/contact/


----------



## Sentinel92

One question, if the DAC i currently have is bass light and has a very flat botton end response, can the LC remedy this by providing a solid mid bass punch and sub bass extension/decay?


----------



## doctorjazz

I just ordered from Norne for my HE 1k, balanced to fit the LC, with adaptors for the Pono and for single ended use. Not inexpensive, but some In Whose Ears I Trust rave about the sound. Can report back when I get them, 2-3 weeks.


----------



## Geared4me

lajosthehun said:


> Is there an adapter for the Sony MDR Z7's dual TRS to any of the Liquid carbon's 4pin XLR and mini? I tried to do a search the only thing came up is this.
> 
> http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=42300604499
> 
> ...


 

 Surf cables is a good option and here's another one for you http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/ when you go to a cable product on their page the Sony Z7 is available in the dropdown box at the bottom.


----------



## LajostheHun

geared4me said:


> Surf cables is a good option and here's another one for you http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/ when you go to a cable product on their page the Sony Z7 is available in the dropdown box at the bottom.


 
 I don't see any drop down window, other than how the page would sort. I also tried to do a keyword search nothing for the Sony MDRZ7


----------



## Geared4me

lajosthehun said:


> I don't see any drop down window, other than how the page would sort. I also tried to do a keyword search nothing for the Sony MDRZ7


 
 I will walk you through an example then. Go to the website, click on Flagship Home Headphone Cables on the left, click on Molecule Extreme 18awg, scroll to the bottom and click on the dropdown box for Headphone Type, select Sony Z7, click on the Termination dropdown box and select the one you want. This is just an example to show you how to navigate their website. They should also be able to make any kind of adapter that you need at a much lower price then the cables they sell if you go to the adapter page. I hope this has helped.


----------



## Beolab

warrenpchi said:


> I can also confirm that it sounds terrific with ZMF's new Omni, in case anyone is looking at that headphone.




Warren: 

How does the LC sound with the Abyss i sough on the picture?

What is your conclusion? 

Liv or die  ? 

 :thumbsup_tone2:


----------



## warrenpchi

beolab said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > I can also confirm that it sounds terrific with ZMF's new Omni, in case anyone is looking at that headphone.
> ...


 






  YGPM.


----------



## Beolab

cant wait untill August :clap_tone1:


----------



## warrenpchi

beolab said:


> cant wait untill August :clap_tone1:


 

 Me too!  Don't get me wrong, I'm throughly enjoying this production sample Carbon, but I'm eager to get my actual amp (serialized and everything).  Plus, I think I've just found the DAC that I want to use with the Carbon, over in the _Finding a DAC for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon thread_.  So I'm all good to go!


----------



## Beolab

warrenpchi said:


> Me too!  Don't get me wrong, I'm throughly enjoying this production sample Carbon, but I'm eager to get my actual amp (serialized and everything).  Plus, I think I've just found the DAC that I want to use with the Carbon, over in the _Finding a DAC for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon thread_.  So I'm all good to go!




Then i can use my beloved Abyss with my LC and Black Chord Hugo. It is going to be a neath small Hi-End system, that will due for now. 

I will later place a order on the new Chord DAVE and us it as a DAC and Headamp. 

Thats nice Warren! The Stello have equal design and format to stack them on top of each other. 

Im more entusiastic for my new small Cavalli Amp than my Bmw M4


----------



## coastal1

aarontyson said:


> Understood but if you want to use your headphones in another source/amp thats not the LC and only has SE... You will need an extra cable that goes from XLR to 1/4" or 3.5mm.


 
  
 I've tried to read most of this thread, but could use a little help with the above and some other things to prepare for the arrival of the LC.
  
 I currently do not have a balanced setup, using Jriver->iFi Micro iDSD->Bottlehead Crack->Sennheiser HD650 (stock cable).  
  
*1. HD650 Balanced Cable*.  It sounds like SE will work with the LC, but using a balanced headphone cable is generally highly recommended, is this true for the HD 650 as well?  If so, is something that's similar to the official Sennheiser balanced cable that has one 4-pole XLR connector the best option (http://en-us.sennheiser.com/ch-650-s)?  I will likely be looking for a cable that's cheaper and not almost what I paid for the headphones themselves, but want to make sure i'm looking for the right cable.  Any opinions on cheaper options besides the Sennheiser cable are appreciated.
  
*2. XLR to 1/4".  *I plan on keeping the Crack so will want to be able to switch between the Crack and LC.  Is getting an XLR to 1/4" cable the recommended option rather than swapping the stock cable back in?  The XLR to 1/4" certainly seems like the easier option, just wondering if there's any reason to swap the cables rather than using an XLR to 1/4" cable.  I will ask the BH thread to see if there's anything specific to that amp, but general opinions are appreciated.  
  
*3. Unbalanced DAC-> LC*.  Initially plan on continuing to use the Micro as a DAC for the LC and connecting rca to rca based on what's been posted in this thread so don't think new interconnects are needed there.
  
 Thanks


----------



## aarontyson

coastal1 said:


> I've tried to read most of this thread, but could use a little help with the above and some other things to prepare for the arrival of the LC.
> 
> I currently do not have a balanced setup, using Jriver->iFi Micro iDSD->Bottlehead Crack->Sennheiser HD650 (stock cable).
> 
> ...




1. All you need to understand is that if you have a headphone that can accept a balanced connection then try to get one. Why because with a balanced design you going to be able to take full advantage of the amplifier. With a SE connection you will only be able to use half the power of the amp. But if your headphones don't need all the power the LC can dish out then don't worry too much about it. If I owned the HD650's I would want a balanced cable. 

2. It's cheaper to just use your stock cables for the Crack, however if you are buying a premium balanced cable then get an XLR to SE. Because your buying a premium cable anyways.

3. Your fine using the Micro Rca to rca input because the LC will port it into the balanced circuit anyways.

I hope this answers your question but hopefully The man him self Mr Cavalli can correct me or help out.


----------



## Stillhart

coastal1 said:


> I've tried to read most of this thread, but could use a little help with the above and some other things to prepare for the arrival of the LC.
> 
> I currently do not have a balanced setup, using Jriver->iFi Micro iDSD->Bottlehead Crack->Sennheiser HD650 (stock cable).
> 
> ...


 
  
 1 - There are plenty of alternatives that are $100 or cheaper.  Massdrop sells one occasionally, but your best bet for bang/buck is to hit up eBay.  I'd suggest going balanced.  From what I've read, the HD650 really opens up nicely.
  
 2 - When I made my balanced cable, I made a little XLR->TRS adapter for this exact purpose.  It works great.  And of course, those big XLR connectors are much less prone to damage from plugging and replugging than the little connectors on the headphone.
  
 3 - Nope, no new interconnects needed.  Alex designed the LC to work well with SE DAC's too so you're good.
  
 Hope this helped.  Those are some good questions and I think you're on the right track!


----------



## coastal1

stillhart said:


> 1 - There are plenty of alternatives that are $100 or cheaper.  Massdrop sells one occasionally, but your best bet for bang/buck is to hit up eBay.  I'd suggest going balanced.  From what I've read, the HD650 really opens up nicely.
> 
> 2 - When I made my balanced cable, I made a little XLR->TRS adapter for this exact purpose.  It works great.  And of course, those big XLR connectors are much less prone to damage from plugging and replugging than the little connectors on the headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks, very helpful.  I'm very excited to hear how the HD650 will sound with the LC, but I'm quite content with the HD650/BH crack pairing.  Getting the LC more with an eye on getting high end headphones down the road that may not be a good match with my current amp.  Expecting the HD650s with the LC to be a different experience though not necessarily better, so if I like it enough to part with tubes that will be pleasant surprise, but not my plan.  Being able to easily alternate between the two amps without hassling or damaging the little hp connectors will be a big plus in the interim.


----------



## DCDC

coastal1 said:


> I've tried to read most of this thread, but could use a little help with the above and some other things to prepare for the arrival of the LC.
> 
> I currently do not have a balanced setup, using Jriver->iFi Micro iDSD->Bottlehead Crack->Sennheiser HD650 (stock cable).
> 
> ...


 
 Throwing in my 2c on your first question: I was skeptical at first but having heard the HD650s out of balanced amps like the sennheiser HDVD800 and the Oppo HA-1, I am fairly certain that balanced is the way to go with the HD650s. I compared two pairs of HD650s, one SE and one balanced for quick switching (both sennheiser cables too so the only difference should be the TRS and XLR terminations) on the HDVD800. I heard the balanced output provide a more expansive soundstage, noticeably better layering and a overall quicker pace, most evident in the tighter bass response. The changes were common with the HA-1 running balanced output vs single ended and compared to other single ended amps that I have heard. However, whether or not this is because the amps were designed to perform best in balanced output vs SE output or if the balanced output was the reason for these inherent changes I'm not too certain. Given the choice though, I would take balanced output with the HD650s if I could have it just going by trends. As for cabling, I've decided to give it a go and try make my own so we'll see how that turns out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Caveat: I haven't actually heard HD650s driven by OTL tube amps like the crack so my opinion won't be valid for a comparison against tube amps


----------



## nudd

dcdc said:


> Throwing in my 2c on your first question: I was skeptical at first but having heard the HD650s out of balanced amps like the sennheiser HDVD800 and the Oppo HA-1, I am fairly certain that balanced is the way to go with the HD650s. I compared two pairs of HD650s, one SE and one balanced for quick switching (both sennheiser cables too so the only difference should be the TRS and XLR terminations) on the HDVD800. I heard the balanced output provide a more expansive soundstage, noticeably better layering and a overall quicker pace, most evident in the tighter bass response. The changes were common with the HA-1 running balanced output vs single ended and compared to other single ended amps that I have heard. However, whether or not this is because the amps were designed to perform best in balanced output vs SE output or if the balanced output was the reason for these inherent changes I'm not too certain. Given the choice though, I would take balanced output with the HD650s if I could have it just going by trends. As for cabling, I've decided to give it a go and try make my own so we'll see how that turns out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi the HDVD800 is fully balanced including 2 separate amps in balanced mode, then the balance output will inherently be louder at the same volume setting as the single ended output. Unless somehow, the two amp sections are summed up in SE mode for greater power.


----------



## DCDC

nudd said:


> Hi the HDVD800 is fully balanced including 2 separate amps in balanced mode, then the balance output will inherently be louder at the same volume setting as the single ended output. Unless somehow, the two amp sections are summed up in SE mode for greater power.


 
 Yep, the output out of the SE outputs are indeed halved compared to balanced outputs so when i switched I had to turn up the volume until they were fairly well matched. The difference between the sound driven SE and balanced was still noticeable even bearing in mind any volume discrepancies though


----------



## defbear

I got the HDVD800 since I couldn't wait until the LC to arrive. Good excuse anyway. I feel balanced gives a bigger soundstage and fuller sound with my HD800's. The bass is well represented and the treble harshness is gone. I got 'caught up' in the excitement and ordered the LC since it's balanced. I've ordered an Emotiva DAC1 balanced DAC to go along with the LC. I chickened out on Yggy.


----------



## KK22

Just ordered one for my newly arrived LCD-Xs. For those who are tracking my order number is 100000870. Don't know how many are left from the initial run.


----------



## thomascrown

defbear said:


> I got the HDVD800 since I couldn't wait until the LC to arrive. Good excuse anyway. I feel balanced gives a bigger soundstage and fuller sound with my HD800's. The bass is well represented and the treble harshness is gone. I got 'caught up' in the excitement and ordered the LC since it's balanced. I've ordered an Emotiva DAC1 balanced DAC to go along with the LC. I chickened out on Yggy.


 
 Funny, I've sold my hdva600 in order to buy the LC...  I was happy with the senn amp, so I hope the LC it's worth the decision and the long wait.


----------



## Kojaku

Man, I wish the amp weren't silk screened. It would be awesome to get a pure silver version of it. Anyone know if the amp will have feet of any kind? 
  
 Also, this case mod thread sounds sick. I may use some aircraft paint remover and just remove all the graphics so it matches my oppo ha-1
  
 Kojaku


----------



## immtbiker

Mod thread link?


----------



## Stillhart

immtbiker said:


> Mod thread link?


 
  
 I think he's referring to a theoretical thread that was proposed a few weeks back.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stillhart said:


> I think he's referring to a theoretical thread that was proposed a few weeks back.




How does one post on a theoretical thread?


----------



## pippen99

wildcatsare1 said:


> How does one post on a theoretical thread?


 
 Hypothetically


----------



## Beolab

pippen99 said:


> Hypothetically




Next week im going start the worlds first hypothetically based forum who do not exist, just in my mind 

Why don't u guys start the thread then?


----------



## Kojaku

beolab said:


> Next week im going start the worlds first hypothetically based forum who do not exist, just in my mind
> 
> Why don't start the thread then, what are holding you back?




Erm...it's a case mod thread and since there are no models officially out yet to mod the cases of, the thread would just be banter. Not that I don't enjoy banter, but I don't wanna make the mods' lives harder.

Kojaku


----------



## Kojaku

@runeight Will you ever offer other colors of the Carbon? Like...let's say...silver ?
  
 Kojaku


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems "Silver Carbon" would be an oxymoron...


----------



## Evshrug

Call it "Solid Carbon" then.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'd say it is a "diamond in the rough" whatever you call it.


----------



## mandrake50

Has anyone seen or heard any updates on how the production phase is going on the LC? I know we are at least a month or two out for delivery, just curious...and impatient!


----------



## doctorjazz

It's already been a month or so, should be in August if not delayed from what I remember.


----------



## mandrake50

Yes, that is what I remember as well... I thought maybe someone had some more recent data to relate.


----------



## elwappo99

doctorjazz said:


> It's already been a month or so, should be in August if not delayed from what I remember.


 
  
 I think it was just "August" without much info on early/late, as a goal. There's a lot of parts to coordinate before assembly even begins, and Cavalli Audio may decide to wait until all units are assembled before shipment. 
  
 Since we haven't had too many updates, I'd assume we're looking later in the month (Although if I could get it in mid-August for personal coordination reasons I'd be thrilled. Otherwise I'll have to read everyone's "OMG SO GOOD" impressions until late October  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## audiofrk

I think alex is still taking some much deserved R&R, this was the only time he could slot it between the production run of the crimson and the production run of the carbon.  Rest up alex I want my part matching done right.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My paradox is waiting.


----------



## AxelCloris

The product page specifically mentions late August.
  
 "We expect to begin shipping end of August, 2015."


----------



## Evshrug

^new info to me, I remember posts citing "4 months till release" before the orders began, though if you take that and apply 4 months to the beginning of orders date, add a few days for delays and shipping, you do come up with late August.

Which reminds me, I need to change my shipping address...


----------



## longbowbbs

I can't wait for shipping so I can borrow @AxelCloris unit....


----------



## doctorjazz

He won't mind!


----------



## AxelCloris

longbowbbs said:


> I can't wait for shipping so I can borrow @AxelCloris unit....


 
  
 Absolutely! Just send me that Studio Six of yours and I'll send you the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## longbowbbs

axelcloris said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > I can't wait for shipping so I can borrow @AxelCloris unit....
> ...


 
 This is more like the neighbor wanting to "Borrow" your lawn tools for an extended period.....


----------



## AxelCloris

longbowbbs said:


> This is more like the neighbor wanting to "Borrow" your lawn tools for an extended period.....


 
 And my method ensures that I get the LC back at some point.


----------



## longbowbbs

axelcloris said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > This is more like the neighbor wanting to "Borrow" your lawn tools for an extended period.....
> ...


 
 This is like a poker game...I'll see your LC and raise you a Studio Six!


----------



## warrenpchi

Funny that this should come up coincidentally... I spoke to Alex last night, and Carbon production is coming along nicely.  This is great news for me because - as much as I love checking out this proto - I am looking forward to MY unit.  For we shall do forbidden and unspeakable things together.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for rest, that's the last thing Alex is getting at this moment.  Those of you who were there might remember that there was another new Cavalli amp at CanJam SoCal 2015... pretty sure that is being worked on at the moment.


----------



## longbowbbs

warrenpchi said:


> Funny that this should come up coincidentally... I spoke to Alex last night, and Carbon production is coming along nicely.  This is great news for me because - as much as I love checking out this proto - I am looking forward to MY unit.  For we shall do forbidden and unspeakable things together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Because we all know that "Trans"portable is not portable enough!


----------



## warrenpchi

longbowbbs said:


> Because we all know that "Trans"portable is not portable enough!


 
  
 Yup!  Having auditioned the portable proto extensively, I can't wait for that to open for pre-order.  The proto is still tied to a wall wart at the moment, which somewhat limits portability.


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> Funny that this should come up coincidentally... I spoke to Alex last night, and Carbon production is coming along nicely.  This is great news for me because - as much as I love checking out this proto - I am looking forward to MY unit.  For we shall do forbidden and unspeakable things together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How could we possibly forget about the Liquid Sapphire*™*?


----------



## longbowbbs

warrenpchi said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > Because we all know that "Trans"portable is not portable enough!
> ...


 
 That extra long extension cord is not doing it for you?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

axelcloris said:


> How could we possibly forget about the Liquid Sapphire*™*?


 
  
 Don't you mean Liquid Quartz™?


----------



## AxelCloris

buttuglyjeff said:


> Don't you mean Liquid Quartz™?


 
  
 We'll see in the naming contest, now won't we?


----------



## bearFNF

I'm thinking Liquid Silver will stick...


----------



## warrenpchi

Would be pretty funny if people started similar tangent threads for the portable...
  
_*Finding a DAP for the Cavalli Liquid Portable. Only Four Months to Go.*_


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> Would be pretty funny if people started similar tangent threads for the portable...
> 
> _*Finding a DAP for the Cavalli Liquid Portable. Only Four Months to Go.*_


 
  
 It would be a short thread.....


----------



## mscott58

bearfnf said:


> I'm thinking Liquid Silver will stick...




Liquid Quick Silver? The marketing could be something about how it will drive you mad.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

mscott58 said:


> Liquid Quick Silver? The marketing could be something about how it will drive you mad.


 
  
 Well then it should be Liquid Mercury or Liquid Lead....


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> Well then it should be Liquid Mercury or Liquid Lead....




Sorry, arcane chemistry humor as Mercury used to be called Quicksilver.


----------



## aamefford

longbowbbs said:


> That extra long extension cord is not doing it for you?


 

 "Pictures guy with a backpack with BIG self-retracting cord reel..."


----------



## longbowbbs

buttuglyjeff said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > How could we possibly forget about the Liquid Sapphire*™*?
> ...


 
 and the Cavalli bumper sticker..."May the Quartz be with you!"


----------



## Dyin

Placed an order for the Liquid Carbon to match with my hd 600's. My order number was 880 so it looks like we are close to 500 units. Looking forward to getting these by early September.
  
 On a tangent. Does anyone have good recommendations for an affordable balanced cable for the hd 600's. I found the ZY hifi ones on amazon and they seemed quite good in value compared to more expensive cables. I would have bought a Sennheiser branded one if it wasn't as expensive as the headphones themselves. =/


----------



## warrenpchi

What's your budget for said cable?


----------



## Dyin

Ideally I would prefer to spend less than 150 dollars. College has me tight on funds and most of my spare money has already gone towards my audio gear. I was very happy when I found out an affordable Cavalli amp was being released so I had to get one before it was gone.


----------



## elwappo99

dyin said:


> Placed an order for the Liquid Carbon to match with my hd 600's. My order number was 880 so it looks like we are close to 500 units. Looking forward to getting these by early September.
> 
> On a tangent. Does anyone have good recommendations for an affordable balanced cable for the hd 600's. I found the ZY hifi ones on amazon and they seemed quite good in value compared to more expensive cables. I would have bought a Sennheiser branded one if it wasn't as expensive as the headphones themselves. =/


 
  
 Also, those "Sennheiser" brand ones are literally the stock cable with a $8 connector on them. If you know anyone with any sort of soldering skill I would buy a stock cable for $20 or whatever it runs and $5 on the XLR connector.


----------



## warrenpchi

elwappo99 said:


> dyin said:
> 
> 
> > Placed an order for the Liquid Carbon to match with my hd 600's. My order number was 880 so it looks like we are close to 500 units. Looking forward to getting these by early September.
> ...


 

 That's probably the most economical way to go.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  All else fails, there's this:  http://www.headphone.com/collections/all/products/headroom-4-pin-balanced-stock-hd650-cable


----------



## elwappo99

warrenpchi said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > dyin said:
> ...


 
  
 Forgot headroom did those! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't know if they plan on restocking anytime. Price is still a bit steep considering the cost of parts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Here's another option. It's a bit spartan, but price seems pretty decent:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEISER-HEADPHONE-CABLE-HD600-HD650-MOGAMI-CARDAS-NEUTRIK-1-4-or-BALANCED-/171649354489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7194af9


----------



## warrenpchi

elwappo99 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > All else fails, there's this:  http://www.headphone.com/collections/all/products/headroom-4-pin-balanced-stock-hd650-cable
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, we kind of had to rule out HeadRoom for a while as their inventory has been spotty for a couple of years now.  But I remembered that there was something about them being "back" so I took a chance to check.  You're right, not a super good price, but still viable.
  
 Actually Dyin, what you might want to do is learn to solder instead.  It's going to save you ALL KINDS OF MONEY in this hobby... seriously.


----------



## elwappo99

warrenpchi said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > warrenpchi said:
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for the warren/elwapp party here... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I think this advice is especially true for everyone who is purchasing balanced gear. I have a friend who lives close by who is really good with a soldering iron. For some headphones a $5 XLR connector is all you need to get the headphones balanced. It can save you quite a bit in the long run. Not to mention the many times I've ran to him with a headphones that was losing a channel. A quick multimeter check and solder, 5 minutes later broken headphones no longer broken.


----------



## warrenpchi

elwappo99 said:


> Sorry for the warren/elwapp party here...


 





  
 Plus, it's MURRICA DAY!  Off topic, but I absolutely decimated some chili-cheese dogs earlier, and then took napping to an art form.  Waiting for the sun to set so that fireworks can start... which I shall savor with beer and pork rinds (diet be damned).  
  


elwappo99 said:


> But I think this advice is especially true for everyone who is purchasing balanced gear. I have a friend who lives close by who is really good with a soldering iron. For some headphones a $5 XLR connector is all you need to get the headphones balanced. It can save you quite a bit in the long run. Not to mention the many times I've ran to him with a headphones that was losing a channel. A quick multimeter check and solder, 5 minutes later broken headphones no longer broken.


 
  
 ^ Exactly!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Plus, DIY in the form of board population becomes viable too.  If Cavalli had not lost his mind and made a $600 amp (still kinda hard to believe), I probably would have gone the Bottlehead route for the HD 650.


----------



## mandrake50

warrenpchi said:


> That's probably the most economical way to go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Take a look *at these. *I bought a set. Decently made. Maybe a bit on the short side, depending on what situation you will be using them in.Don't ask how they sound, I am a skeptic on that...and, I have yet to get the balanced amp so I could even try them.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

dyin said:


> Ideally I would prefer to spend less than 150 dollars. College has me tight on funds and most of my spare money has already gone towards my audio gear. I was very happy when I found out an affordable Cavalli amp was being released so I had to get one before it was gone.


 
  
 You could be well below your budget with Brian at BTG Audio:
  
http://www.btg-audio.com/
  
 Or head-fier @cCasper TFG has a Etsy page for headphone mods and cables:
  
https://www.etsy.com/shop/cCasperTFG?utm_source=transactional&%3Butm_medium=trans_email&%3Butm_campaign=convo_html&campaign_label=convo_notifications&utm_campaign=convo_notifications_010170_10683759063_0_0&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&email_sent=1435193433&euid=WFzQnnukMkeAmHCzaJ4ncucBtJjx&eaid=26968314706&x_eaid=d4dc8ffc68


----------



## Dyin

Thanks for all the options listed. Now that you guys pointed it out, I might actually try the "do it myself-learn to solder" option. =)

I go to a tech school so I guess it would be pretty shameful if I didn't learn some hands on skills.

I have plenty of time before the amp gets shipped so I'll see what I can come up with.


----------



## nudd

At least you have some theoretical understanding of what to do and fundamental laws of physics. In my case i have to spend hours reading electronics primers to figure out how to test + and - ... Lol


----------



## MattTCG

Just a random thought/question. I'll be using the Gungnir as dac. It outputs 2v over SE but 4v over balanced outs. Seems like a lot. I wonder if this will present any issues with not being able to swing the volume knob very much or channel imbalance issues.


----------



## ying

I am going to place an order tomorrow. Hopefully they sound real good with the HD 800. I am gonna compare the lc with the bottlehead crack.


----------



## MattTCG

ying said:


> I am going to place an order tomorrow. Hopefully they sound real good with the HD 800. I am gonna compare the lc with the bottlehead crack.


 
 Solid vs full OTL. Should be interesting. I thought that I'd end up with the same two amps as well. Looks like it will be Ember and Carbon for me though.


----------



## warrenpchi

matttcg said:


> ying said:
> 
> 
> > I am going to place an order tomorrow. Hopefully they sound real good with the HD 800. I am gonna compare the lc with the bottlehead crack.
> ...




I wouldn't be too sure about that.


----------



## ying

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't be too sure about that.




Haha what do you mean? Have you tried it out with the HD 800


----------



## Jeff Y

ying said:


> I am going to place an order tomorrow. Hopefully they sound real good with the HD 800. I am gonna compare the lc with the bottlehead crack.


 
 Didn't know you could still order this thing. I want to get one but will have to wait for around 6 months for lot of complicated reasons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 But will be interesting to hear from you!
 Cheers.


----------



## warrenpchi

ying said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't be too sure about that.
> ...


 

 I just mean that I don't think the Ember and the Carbon will be Matt's two amps.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jeff y said:


> Didn't know you could still order this thing. I want to get one but will have to wait for around 6 months for lot of complicated reasons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's still some available on this 500 unit run, but not sure how long they will be available for...
  
 I bet in 6 months you'll see some units make their way to the for sale forum.  Just because...


----------



## MattTCG

warrenpchi said:


> I just mean that I don't think the Ember and the Carbon will be Matt's two amps.


 
  
 Oh yeah? I'm willing to add you to my Christmas card list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Don't get me wrong, as much as I appreciate what the Carbon brings to the table at it's given price point Cavalli makes better amps. But we all have a budget to work with and my formula always puts most of my budget in the headphone. If I ever "upgrade" the Carbon it would be for a better Cavalli amp.


----------



## J4MES

I guess I was very close: Your Order #100000884

I'm going to ask a stupid questions now. Right now I'm running my alpha dogs from my PCs 3.5 so no Amp/Dac. With my purchase of the LC and before I get a DAC could I connect my PC - LC via 3.5mm interconnect?

I'm really wanting to buy some open backed headphones (Ether) before the Dac.


----------



## gr8soundz

j4mes said:


> I guess I was very close: Your Order #100000884
> 
> I'm going to ask a stupid questions now. Right now I'm running my alpha dogs from my PCs 3.5 so no Amp/Dac. With my purchase of the LC and before I get a DAC could I connect my PC - LC via 3.5mm interconnect?
> 
> I'm really wanting to buy some open backed headphones (Ether) before the Dac.


 
  
 You could do that but ANY kind of DAC will sound 10x better (or more; not to mention cleaner) than a PC 3.5mm output.
  
 The LC would be amping a low quality signal which may actually make it sound worse. 
  
 I want the Ethers too but I'd definitely invest in even a small, cheap DAC/amp like an Audioquest Dragonfly ($150 or less) to take some advantage of the higher-end equipment you'll have.


----------



## mscott58

gr8soundz said:


> You could do that but ANY kind of DAC will sound 10x better (or more; not to mention cleaner) than a PC 3.5mm output.
> 
> The LC would be amping a low quality signal which may actually make it sound worse.
> 
> I want the Ethers too but I'd definitely invest in even a small, cheap DAC/amp like an Audioquest Dragonfly ($150 or less) to take some advantage of the higher-end equipment you'll have.


 
 +1. You will severely handicap your Ethers and LC if you use the output of a PC. Agree with gr8 that even a basic DAC will move you light-years ahead. Cheers and happy listening


----------



## J4MES

mscott58 said:


> +1. You will severely handicap your Ethers and LC if you use the output of a PC. Agree with gr8 that even a basic DAC will move you light-years ahead. Cheers and happy listening




Okay I guess a DAC is now on my priority list thanks for the help. I guess I'll head to the DAC thread, need something to read after finishing the 140 pages on this one.

Was hoping to wait for the Yggy trickle down Gungnir that people here have talked about.


----------



## gr8soundz

j4mes said:


> Okay I guess a DAC is now on my priority list thanks for the help. I guess I'll head to the DAC thread, need something to read after finishing the 140 pages on this one.
> 
> Was hoping to wait for the Yggy trickle down Gungnir that people here have talked about.


 
  
 I know the feeling. Every dollar spent on lesser dacs/amps could easily go towards the best of the best stuff.
  
 Waiting for the next Gungnir myself since the Yggy is too expensive.
  
 Shouldn't be difficult to sell off equipment as you upgrade too.


----------



## aamefford

j4mes said:


> Okay I guess a DAC is now on my priority list thanks for the help. I guess I'll head to the DAC thread, need something to read after finishing the 140 pages on this one.
> 
> Was hoping to wait for the Yggy trickle down Gungnir that people here have talked about.



Keep an eye in the source FS thread. Usually something decent and cheap there. Be careful though. I just bought a Dac-19 that is not small, balanced or cheap. It just sorta happened. That happens in the FS threads sometimes.


----------



## MattTCG

aamefford said:


> Keep an eye in the source FS thread. Usually something decent and cheap there. Be careful though. I just bought a Dac-19 that is not small, balanced or cheap. It just sorta happened.* That happens in the FS threads sometimes.*


 
  
  
 I would give that statement a +1 ( looks at own feedback in shame).


----------



## aamefford

matttcg said:


> I would give that statement a +1 ( looks at own feedback in shame).



Hah! Lol


----------



## warrenpchi

matttcg said:


> aamefford said:
> 
> 
> > Keep an eye in the source FS thread. Usually something decent and cheap there. Be careful though. I just bought a Dac-19 that is not small, balanced or cheap. It just sorta happened.* That happens in the FS threads sometimes.*
> ...


 
  
 LOLOLOL


----------



## Wildcatsare1

warrenpchi said:


> I just mean that I don't think the Ember and the Carbon will be Matt's two amps.




Oh, so you know Matt, he'll be several amps down the road by then.


----------



## Evshrug

j4mes said:


> Okay I guess a DAC is now on my priority list thanks for the help. I guess I'll head to the DAC thread, need something to read after finishing the 140 pages on this one.
> 
> Was hoping to wait for the Yggy trickle down Gungnir that people here have talked about.







aamefford said:


> Keep an eye in the source FS thread. Usually something decent and cheap there. Be careful though. I just bought a Dac-19 that is not small, balanced or cheap. It just sorta happened. That happens in the FS threads sometimes.




FWIR, the DAC-19 basically is the trickle-down Yggy, R2R DAC, just not made by Schiit. But yeah, I can understand putting money down now on the Liquid Carbon because it might be a one-time production run (or at least lower priced than in the future), however the Ether is Mr. Speakers future. If you buy a DAC now, you may have more money saved up to afford the Ether by the time that comes out anyway.

There's a time priority on the Liquid Carbon, but time doesn't much matter for the other components (you have to wait on the Ether anyway). Using a PC motherboard is a "weak link" bottlenecking the performance of your system, which will hold back the performance of anything downstream if you don't buy a good DAC. You already have great headphones in the Alpha Dogs! So, assuming you buy a Liquid Carbon now and a dedicated DAC now, once the LC is released your Alpha Dogs will be noticeably improved and kinda transform into a new headphone already.


----------



## audiofrk

evshrug said:


> FWIR, the DAC-19 basically is the trickle-down Yggy, R2R DAC, just not made by Schiit.
> 
> You already have great headphones in the Aa Dogs! So, assuming you buy a Liquid Carbon now and a dedicated DAC now, once the LC is released your Alpha Dogs will be noticeably improved and kinda transform into a new headphone already.




The dac-19 is NOT the same thing as a yggy. They have different dacs, filters, power supplies, and analog stages. That is like saying the odac and the Hugo are the same thing because they use delta sigma conversions.

I agree with the second point though if you have headphones you like stick with them and see if they jive with your setup. As for dacs if you can find a used geek 450 on the for sale forums for less than $150 get that or else just use line out of your PC till you get some dough.


----------



## joeexp

evshrug said:


> FWIR, the DAC-19 basically is the trickle-down Yggy, R2R DAC, just not made by Schiit.


 
  
 DAC-19
 Uses 2 pieces of Burr-Brown PCM1704UK
 ACSS /RCA output DAC
 Coaxial/Optical/USB input
 24Bit / 96KHz USB input and  Coaxial/Opitcal support
  
  
 Not even close ...


----------



## s7uart

Long time looker / reader, first time posting. Just ordered myself one of these awesome amps: order #100000888.

This is my first ever Head-fi product / purchase, after reading this entire thread and reading reviews and nothing but good things on the web I didn't want to miss out on this run.

I'm in the same boat as James I have no DAC as of yet will the Audioquest Dragonfly V1.2 cut the mustard short term? Long term aim will be a Chord 2qute DAC.
My sources will be my Oneplus One (Android phone) running Tidal via OTG USB, or my Sony Z3 tablet compact running the same, I also have a Sonos Connect.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## doctorjazz

Dragonfly or Geek Out should hold you while you save those shekels...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

s7uart said:


> Long time looker / reader, first time posting. Just ordered myself one of these awesome amps: order #100000888.
> 
> This is my first ever Head-fi product / purchase, after reading this entire thread and reading reviews and nothing but good things on the web I didn't want to miss out on this run.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the Dragonfly will be a fine stop gap, till you acquire a better DAC down the road.  Most likely for a "pseudo line out", you'll just run the Dragonfly at full volume.
  
 What headphone are you getting this amp for?


----------



## s7uart

doctorjazz said:


> Dragonfly or Geek Out should hold you while you save those shekels...







buttuglyjeff said:


> Yes, the Dragonfly will be a fine stop gap, till you acquire a better DAC down the road.  Most likely for a "pseudo line out", you'll just run the Dragonfly at full volume.
> 
> What headphone are you getting this amp for?




Thanks for the replies and suggestions, just found a Geek out 1000 on eBay that I'll keep an eye on.

Jeff, currently got a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 but this is short term, I'm either going to get a pair of EL8 open back or a pair of LCD-2.2s, or I'll stick with the M2.0 save my pennies and get a pair of LCD-Xs or Ether's. I've heard the Audeze range and liked what I heard, especially LCD2.2s and up. Although reading all of positive things about Ether's so far, they are tempting me.


----------



## J4MES

Priced up a Yggdrasil today to see if I could in one go" end game" my DAC. Once I included import duty/vat it added £600 to the £1600 cost.



s7uart said:


> Jeff, currently got a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 but this is short term, I'm either going to get a pair of EL8 open back or a pair of LCD-2.2s, or I'll stick with the M2.0 save my pennies and get a pair of LCD-Xs or Ether's. I've heard the Audeze range and liked what I heard, especially LCD2.2s and up. Although reading all of positive things about Ether's so far, they are tempting me.




I'm looking at the Ether myself. Ether with 10' XLR DUM Cable once imported to UK it will be £1500 which is LCD3 money. Just struggle with that when HD800 are online for £700. 

Still don't know what to do. Gladi have 2 months to figure this out.


----------



## pippen99

s7uart said:


> Thanks for the replies and suggestions, just found a Geek out 1000 on eBay that I'll keep an eye on.
> 
> Jeff, currently got a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 but this is short term, I'm either going to get a pair of EL8 open back or a pair of LCD-2.2s, or I'll stick with the M2.0 save my pennies and get a pair of LCD-Xs or Ether's. I've heard the Audeze range and liked what I heard, especially LCD2.2s and up. Although reading all of positive things about Ether's so far, they are tempting me.


 

 I originally had had the LCD-2f myself.  I auditioned both the LCD-X and the Ether at the Nashville meet.  The Ether was very impressive with great sound and most of all the best comfort of any headphone I've tried.  Ultimately I sold my LCD-2f and moved up to the LCD-X.  I found the X sound to fit my ears better than the Ether.  I have had the X for about three weeks and couldn't be happier.  I also got a Norne Draug v2 balanced cable to pair with the balanced output of the LC.  I can't rule out owning the Ether at some point.


----------



## audiofrk

s7uart said:


> Thanks for the replies and suggestions, just found a Geek out 1000 on eBay that I'll keep an eye on.
> 
> Jeff, currently got a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 but this is short term, I'm either going to get a pair of EL8 open back or a pair of LCD-2.2s, or I'll stick with the M2.0 save my pennies and get a pair of LCD-Xs or Ether's. I've heard the Audeze range and liked what I heard, especially LCD2.2s and up. Although reading all of positive things about Ether's so far, they are tempting me.


 
 If your gonna use the geek for a dac only get the 450 you don't need the extra power of the 1000.
  
  
 If you want an open back planner my suggestion is to try the 400s before the other two its a damn good phone.


----------



## doctorjazz

I have the Geek Out Special Edition, has enough juice to drive the Hifiman HE-1000 very nicely, thank you (it's an upgraded GO 1000). But, makes sense on the LC Thread, where you presumably will use the LC as an amp out of the DA portion, to go for the cheaper 450 (unless you have something to drive NOW and don't want to wait, but that doesn't seem to be the case).


----------



## mandrake50

audiofrk said:


> If you want an open back planner my suggestion is to try the 400s before the other two its a damn good phone.


 
  Have you got a chance to hear the 400s? I am curious about it. I have the 400, 4000i and 560. Wondering what the "S" brings to the party?


----------



## audiofrk

doctorjazz said:


> I have the Geek Out Special Edition, has enough juice to drive the Hifiman HE-1000 very nicely, thank you (it's an upgraded GO 1000). But, makes sense on the LC Thread, where you presumably will use the LC as an amp out of the DA portion, to go for the cheaper 450 (unless you have something to drive NOW and don't want to wait, but that doesn't seem to be the case).


 

yeah that's what I meant, if you only want to use as a dac no need for the 1000. One headfier I know has the 450, 720, 1000, and the SE. Another guy I know has the liquid glass. We check them and as just a dac the 450 works best.


----------



## audiofrk

mandrake50 said:


> Have you got a chance to hear the 400s? I am curious about it. I have the 400, 4000i and 560. Wondering what the "S" brings to the party?




Yeah I heard them at the Newport show. Compared to the 400i they have less tremble (also got rid of the tizzy artifact, most pronounced when you hear symbols). Mids are more present and now has a hearty bass, less then the bass from my friends modded he6 but still good. Soundstage has better height and and and slightly better width.

Compare to the ether they have better bass. But the ether is more resolving and clarity. 


The ether was out of the yggy+carbon. The he400s out of my portable stack.


----------



## zaintachik

j4mes said:


> Okay I guess a DAC is now on my priority list thanks for the help. I guess I'll head to the DAC thread, need something to read after finishing the 140 pages on this one.
> 
> Was hoping to wait for the Yggy trickle down Gungnir that people here have talked about.


 
 I was not a believer of DAC before i got my dragonfly, now i think it's critical component. It's like im listening to the music for the 1st time. The sound staging is amazing.
  
 I subscribe to the principle the components should be of nearly equal price to one another. Now i have to add a DAC to that equation.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, my DAC cost me about as much as my headphones, but it is second hand late-90's vintage Theta DSPro Basic II which would have cost WAY MORE when new (still works, better than my Bifrost Über), and the LC cost more too. Nice to have headphones that scale up.


----------



## s7uart

audiofrk said:


> If your gonna use the geek for a dac only get the 450 you don't need the extra power of the 1000.
> 
> 
> If you want an open back planner my suggestion is to try the 400s before the other two its a damn good phone.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice on the GO 450 this makes perfect sense, in the mean time this would provide more than enough power to run my Sennheiser M2.0.
  
 The more I read about the GO's the more I like them compared to the dragonfly, so I'm going to see if I can source a 450 for a reasonable price as an interim DAC / head amp.
  
 I'll check out the HiFiman 400s headphones, thanks.
  


j4mes said:


> Priced up a Yggdrasil today to see if I could in one go" end game" my DAC. Once I included import duty/vat it added £600 to the £1600 cost.
> I'm looking at the Ether myself. Ether with 10' XLR DUM Cable once imported to UK it will be £1500 which is LCD3 money. Just struggle with that when HD800 are online for £700.
> 
> Still don't know what to do. Gladi have 2 months to figure this out.


 
  
 Ouch on the import costs! I'm UK based also, so we'll be paying import duty for our LC's.
  
 Yeah I'll keep an eye on the Ether's and see how it pans out, ideally I'd love to compare them one day to the LCD-2 / X / 3 series.
  
 Like you said we've got two months to find something in the mean time.
  


pippen99 said:


> I originally had had the LCD-2f myself.  I auditioned both the LCD-X and the Ether at the Nashville meet.  The Ether was very impressive with great sound and most of all the best comfort of any headphone I've tried.  Ultimately I sold my LCD-2f and moved up to the LCD-X.  I found the X sound to fit my ears better than the Ether.  I have had the X for about three weeks and couldn't be happier.  I also got a Norne Draug v2 balanced cable to pair with the balanced output of the LC.  I can't rule out owning the Ether at some point.


 
  
 Thanks for your input / recommendation, from what I've read I possibly may prefer the sound signature of the LCD-X also as I listen to a lot of dance / electronic music. As mentioned above hopefully I'll be luck enough to compare them some time in the future.
  
  
 Thanks again to everyone, I really appreciate all of the feedback, advice & recommendations, what a great community!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I know this isn't the Cavalli DAC thread, but I thought I would mention the ALO "The Key" as another option.  It is a DAC only, not the typical DAC/amp combo that most of the these thumb drive style devices tend to be.  So no double amping...
  
http://www.aloaudio.com/dacs/the-key


----------



## Stillhart

As another suggestion for folks looking for a cheap DAC that will sound better than nothing, but won't break the bank:  Sound Blaster Omni.  This little sound card is USB/external so you don't have to worry about EMI in your case.  And when I compared it to the Schiit Modi, I couldn't hear any difference.  It's on sale for $50 on Amazon right now, which is a great deal.
  
 As bonus, if you like to game or watch movies on your computer, this will give you SBX virtual surround.  It can output virtual surround from the optical port so if you get a DAC with an optical input, you can run your music AND your gaming/movies thru your nice DAC and Amp.
  
 I'd recommend it over most any $100 DAC simply because it's cheaper, sounds about as good as any $50-100 DAC will sound, and you can continue to use it once you upgrade later.


----------



## vanhiel

I just wanted to thank everyone posting in this thread.  After reading the initial post and seeing Jude compare it favorably to the Liquid Gold which is the most amazing sounding amp I've heard... I just had to put in a pre order for one, especially at the current price!
  
 Now the waiting game begins... At least it's only about a month and a half!


----------



## ericr

buttuglyjeff said:


> I know this isn't the Cavalli DAC thread, but I thought I would mention the ALO "The Key" as another option.  It is a DAC only, not the typical DAC/amp combo that most of the these thumb drive style devices tend to be.  So no double amping...




Speaking of not double amping, yet another good option is the HRT Microstreamer. It has both headphone out AND line-out. So it's like having a Geek Out and the Key rolled into the same compact device.

Also, the Microstreamer has a low power draw which is good if your source is a phone or tablet.


----------



## x RELIC x

I'm just a bored monkey waiting for my Liquid Carbon.............. Lol!


----------



## gr8soundz

ericr said:


> Speaking of not double amping, yet another good option is the HRT Microstreamer. It has both headphone out AND line-out. So it's like having a Geek Out and the Key rolled into the same compact device.
> 
> Also, the Microstreamer has a low power draw which is good if your source is a phone or tablet.


 
  
 I just got the HRT Music Streamer HD. Its a usb dac only and is larger with balanced xlr outputs.
  
 So far I've run the rca outs to my desktop Aego M speakers. The Streamer HD made my Xonar Essence ST card sound like motherboard audio! Easy setup too: just plug n play on usb 1.0 setting; no driver needed (will install it for 192khz later).
  
 Gonna try some a/b comparisons to the iDSD Micro's dac (via rca out) to see how good the HRT really is. But so far, I'm blown away.
  
 Can't wait for the LC to arrive.


----------



## ying

vanhiel said:


> I just wanted to thank everyone posting in this thread.  After reading the initial post and seeing Jude compare it favorably to the Liquid Gold which is the most amazing sounding amp I've heard... I just had to put in a pre order for one, especially at the current price!
> 
> Now the waiting game begins... At least it's only about a month and a half!


 
 Hahaha same here I just ordered one. Can't wait to try it with my HD 800 and compare to the Bottlehead crack!!


----------



## s7uart

Thanks for all of the DAC advice everyone, I ordered a GO 450 as my interim dac today for £99 new, I think that's a good deal as this is what they sell for second hand or higher. I liked the idea of the HRT micro having dual headphone out as well a dedicated line level out but in the end the reviews and the higher spec of the GO had me convinced. I'm looking forward to trying it out when it arrives.


----------



## Barra

Has anyone heard the Liquid Carbon and the EC Black Widow to compare them?


----------



## runeight

Gents, here's a post I made to the other Carbon thread.
  
 Production run seems to be moving along well. Please keep in mind that we have been saying later in August or end of August. I have learned though, that things can still go wrong, especially the first production run of a new product. Let's just keep our fingers crossed that all the various production activities stay synchronized and all the parts continue to get here on time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In the meantime, here are photos of the board for one of the last two pre-production units built. This is, almost exactly, what will be inside your Carbons. You can easily see the small smps transformer (yellow) and the larger components in the supply. There is a lot of capacitance in the supply. There is also a large gap between the HV section of the supply and the rest of the components on the board.
  
 Input section is at the back right. Both amps and PS are on top and bottom of board. In fact, all you see in these pics is the left channel. The right channel is identical and on the bottom side. It is the small amps and the fairly small smps that make a balanced, totally discrete linear amp even possible in this size and flexibility and power output. The power inlet is only temporarily attached for test. In actual units it will be mounted to the back panel.
  
 The relays in the center switch the gain and the ones at the back switch the input source.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> Gents, here's a post I made to the other Carbon thread.



Thanks for the update!

I am squinting at those photos on my phone... Alpha pot?


----------



## runeight

It is. Custom spec'd quad 14mm pot.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

runeight said:


> It is. Custom spec'd quad 14mm pot.


----------



## warrenpchi

Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?


----------



## gr8soundz

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?


 
  
 Almost. Have all my balanced headphone cables and adapters plus a few different XLR cables to connect the iDSD Micro and Ponoplayer to it.
  
 But it looks like the HRT Music Streamer HD I got is defective. Spent a few days troubleshooting EVERYTHING but it still stops playing any sound and becomes unresponsive shortly after playback starts.
  
 So much for my plan to add a full balanced dac with the LC. Guess I'll have to keep looking.


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?



I still need the Ethers. I bought a Dac I didn't know I needed, and spent half the Ether fund. Anyone want to buy a mint silver HA-1, or maybe a pair of Alpha Primes?

Or a kidney?


----------



## Insidious Meme

Waiting to see about a new dac. But after I take delivery of a Liquid Carbon.


----------



## pippen99

All set. Balanced connects, Norne Draug v2 balanced cable, Auralic Vega DAC, and LCD-X cans.  Ready to rock and roll.  Come on August!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I'm waiting on a DAC till after I get my LC.  Too many tempting things seem to be dropping this Fall in the DAC market.  My HiFi-M8 will be my temporary source till then.
  
 But I just ordered a Kimber Kable for my MDR-Z7s.  And then it goes out to be modded for 4 pin XLR...


----------



## x RELIC x

I need the cable/adaptor for my IEM, have the balanced for the Audeze cans. I'm going to see how the HA-1 DAC does with the Carbon and then decide after that what I may want.


----------



## jjacq

Got my GDA700 back today from the shop that cleaned and maintained this DAC, have my balanced XLR cables ready, my IEM adaptors, and my v1.5 Norne Draug... I'm itching to get a cheap-y amp while waiting for the LC. Agh.... can't wait!


----------



## mscott58

Geek Pulse X Infinity/LPS4 and LCD-3F's and K-10's ready and waiting. 
  
 Getting my Moon Audio SD V3 reterminated to 4-pin XLR so I can run the Audeze's in balanced from both the Infinity and the LC. Also have a Norne 4-pin to 2.5mm TRRS adapter so I can also use the K-10's balanced without having to change the cable I use with the ALO CDM. 
  
 All should be set before Alex's little wonder shows up!

 Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

gr8soundz said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?
> ...


----------



## AxelCloris

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?


 
  
 The Ether you forced me to buy (yes, forced) should be here in the next couple of weeks. I'll be using my GO SE with the Carbon for a while.
  


aamefford said:


> I still need the Ethers. I bought a Dac I didn't know I needed, and spent half the Ether fund. Anyone want to buy a mint silver HA-1, or maybe a pair of Alpha Primes?
> 
> Or a kidney?


 
  
 May have to take you up on the kidney.


----------



## gr8soundz

doctorjazz said:


> I'm waiting for a balanced cable for Pono to HE-1000...did you mean you got a cable to use from Pono to LC? Which cable, might I ask? Was it special order or do they have it in stock?


 
  
_pasted your question; you accidentally typed inside quote of what I posted_
  
 I got 2 of these:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KO8W4CK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
  
 Confirmed the pinouts with Cable Matters too. Matches Pono's beloved tech sheets exactly. Should have no grounding issues with the LC balanced.
  
 Have less confidence in my Ponoplayer though after it stopped working. Got it back from repair but haven't tested everything yet.
  
 EDIT: I got the 3ft cables but link now goes to 15ft. Not sure if 3 footers still avail but 6ft is $9.99 each.


----------



## mscott58

gr8soundz said:


> Have less confidence in my Ponoplayer though after it stopped working. Got it back from repair but haven't tested everything yet.


 
 Did they really repair it or just replace it?


----------



## ying

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?


 
  
 Yep, got my brand new Teac UD301, plus some Furutech xlr cables for full balance set up. Ready to rock and roll when my carbon arrives!!!!!!!!


----------



## digitalzed

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?


 

 Yep, WyWires balanced cables for the Pulse Xfi, Wywire Red cables for the Ethers' coming tomorrow, Wireworld power cables for all.


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> Did they really repair it or just replace it?


 
  
 Repair. Still has the exact same single bad pixel on the screen (the one they said they'd take care of but clearly didn't). Can even see a tiny amount of glue around the screen edges from when they put it back together.
  
 As I said, not too confident in Pono long-term. Sounds incredible balanced but glad I only paid $249 for it.


----------



## doctorjazz

gr8soundz said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm waiting for a balanced cable for Pono to HE-1000...did you mean you got a cable to use from Pono to LC? Which cable, might I ask? Was it special order or do they have it in stock?
> ...




Thanks, looks like that would work for Pono balanced into LC. I'd be interested in a higher end cable that doesn't break the bank, but curious what you think of these when the LC arrives.


----------



## doctorjazz

I have been using the GO SE now into my MicroZOTL 2 to drive the HE-1000, can't wait to try it with the LC (eventually the Vi Tube Infinity will be a source, but there'll be many many pages in this thread by then!)


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Almost. Have all my balanced headphone cables and adapters plus a few different XLR cables to connect the iDSD Micro and Ponoplayer to it.
> 
> But it looks like the HRT Music Streamer HD I got is defective. Spent a few days troubleshooting EVERYTHING but it still stops playing any sound and becomes unresponsive shortly after playback starts.
> 
> So much for my plan to add a full balanced dac with the LC. Guess I'll have to keep looking.


 
  
 Interesting.  I had an HRT Microstreamer that had issues on one computer where it just wouldn't work.  On the other computer it worked perfectly fine, but on the other, it'd cut out after a few seconds.  HRT was pretty good about working with me to troubleshoot, but at the end of the day, I decided to just sell it and get something that works.
  
 Have you tried it on different comps?  I assume you're using Windows; you might try finding a friend with a Mac to let you test it.  Supposedly the problems I had are not a thing on iOS (I made sure the guy I sold mine to was a Mac user and he reported no problems with it).  This might show if the unit is actually defective or just not working with your setup.
  
  
 Anyways, this thread had turned into a real gear-porn thread!  lol  Currently I'm using the LC with my Theta Basic II DAC in balanced mode and the HE-560 headphones with a balanced cable that I made myself.  
  
 I plan on doing some testing on the LC with the same DAC in SE vs Balanced mode to hear the difference.  I'll do the same test with my Audio-GD NFB-28 and see if the LC handles the SE->Balanced conversion any better than the other balanced amp I have here.  Why, you ask?  Why *not*, I ask you in return!


----------



## lukeap69

aamefford said:


> I still need the Ethers. I bought a Dac I didn't know I needed, and spent half the Ether fund. Anyone want to buy a mint silver HA-1, or maybe a pair of Alpha Primes?
> 
> Or a kidney?



Are you talking about DAC-19? Do you prefer it over HA-1?


----------



## olor1n

Pulled the trigger. Now the wait.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Interesting.  I had an HRT Microstreamer that had issues on one computer where it just wouldn't work.  On the other computer it worked perfectly fine, but on the other, it'd cut out after a few seconds.  HRT was pretty good about working with me to troubleshoot, but at the end of the day, I decided to just sell it and get something that works.
> 
> Have you tried it on different comps?  I assume you're using Windows; you might try finding a friend with a Mac to let you test it.  Supposedly the problems I had are not a thing on iOS (I made sure the guy I sold mine to was a Mac user and he reported no problems with it).  This might show if the unit is actually defective or just not working with your setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tried it with 2 Wndows PCs and last night a Mac. Same issue no matter the firmware or usb 1.0 or 2.0 mode or usb cable or output mode (direct sound or wasapi event or asio) or software (happens in Jriver, Foobar, and iTunes at all sample rates).
  
 You had a better experience than me though. After submitting 2 tickets, I have not gotten a single reply from HRT support. The retailer just replied to me with instructions to send it to HRT. Not sure why HRT won't reach out to me directly, so I'm returning the Music Streamer HD.
  
 From the brief time it does actually play, it has a certain warmth and smoothness compared to the iDSD Micro (both single ended; won't get a chance to try the HRT balanced). The Micro is sharper and has a bit more detail but also sounds more digital. I liked the distinction between the two and was hoping to keep the HRT but I now have even less confidence in them than I do with Pono.
  
 Looks like it'll be the Micro connected to the LC.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Tried it with 2 Wndows PCs and last night a Mac. Same issue no matter the firmware or usb 1.0 or 2.0 mode or usb cable or output mode (direct sound or wasapi event or asio) or software (happens in Jriver, Foobar, and iTunes at all sample rates).
> 
> You had a better experience than me though. After submitting 2 tickets, I have not gotten a single reply from HRT support. The retailer just replied to me with instructions to send it to HRT. Not sure why HRT won't reach out to me directly, so I'm returning the Music Streamer HD.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You might try sending a PM to @Kevin_Halverson, the CTO of HRT.  He was helping with some troubleshooting the the HRT Microstreamer thread.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> You might try sending a PM to @Kevin_Halverson, the CTO of HRT.  He was helping with some troubleshooting the the HRT Microstreamer thread.


 
  
 I sent him a PM last week just to get the windows usb 2.0 driver which is not on their site.
  
 All I got was a scripted email message with a link for the driver. No feedback or comments on the defective MSHD.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> I sent him a PM last week just to get the windows usb 2.0 driver which is not on their site.
> 
> All I got was a scripted email message with a link for the driver. No feedback or comments on the defective MSHD.


 
  
 Well that's unfortunate.  Oh well, plenty of other DAC's in the sea.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Well that's unfortunate.  Oh well, plenty of other DAC's in the sea.


 
  
 Thanks. The HRT was unique for its size being usb powered and having balanced xlr outs. Plus it was one of the few with galvanic isolation.
  
 Even read a couple reviews saying it had a "tube-like" sound. They weren't too far off.
  
 Not sure about the internal design though if other HRT stuff had similar problems even on some computers.
  
 At this point, I'd sell my iDSD Micro and cancel the LC order to get a Continental Dual Mono if the CDM had enough output power but it can't match what the LC will have.


----------



## thomascrown

Hi, I also own a hrt hd, from long time now, and using both the cable included with the dac or the one included with the hifi m8 (both short cables), It usually disconnects with no reason.
 I tried once a long cheap printer cable that holds better the usb port of my macbook, since then, not a single problem.


----------



## aamefford

lukeap69 said:


> Are you talking about DAC-19? Do you prefer it over HA-1?


 
 Yeah, the Dac-19.  Overall, I prefer the DAC-19 to the HA-1 dac.  I bounced back and forth for a day, and have used the DAC-19 as the dac, and the HA-1 as the amp for the last week or so.  It depends on your tastes, and what you need.  The Dac-19 has noticabley deeper, more impactful bass, seems to be more accurate tone and timbre, and has more natural sounding highs, such as cymals.  The HA-1 has better detail retrieval and more air.  The Dac-19 is R2-R technology, the HA-1 is an ESS 9018 D-S chip.  I've settled on the DAC-19 as my source of choice over the HA-1.  If you search around in my other posts, I did compare the HA-1 Sabre dac to the Schiit Birfrost Uber dac AKM of some sort) dac, and found vanishingly small differences.  My guess is the diffrerences between DAC-19 and HA-1 are due to the R2-R vs. D-S chips, but you can't really substantiate that on my tiny sample and unscientific test.


----------



## Evshrug

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?



Well, I'll have stuff to play with once the LC arrives, but I admit I don't have a balanced headphone to try out that feature. The K612 is interestingly rather power-hungry, but it is not wired for balanced operation. I'm not really sure what balanced headphone to look into... Prefer open, comfy headphones, but may look at CIEMs too and getting a balanced cable for those?

I get to borrow a (SE) Oppo PM-2 soon, but it'll be gone before the LC arrives.


----------



## Barra

Has anyone here heard the LC prototype at a meet that would be able to describe the sound verses other reference amps, maybe my Mjolnir? Better yet, has anyone heard the LC verse the EC Black Widow to compare and contrast the two? And even better, is anyone going to the upcoming San Fran meet this weekend that would be able to compare the LC to the Black Widow directly using any of the Audeze lineup?


----------



## Beolab

barra said:


> Has anyone here heard the LC prototype at a meet that would be able to describe the sound verses other reference amps, maybe my Mjolnir? Better yet, has anyone heard the LC verse the EC Black Widow to compare and contrast the two? And even better, is anyone going to the upcoming San Fran meet this weekend that would be able to compare the LC to the Black Widow directly using any of the Audeze lineup?




Yes, it would be very Interesting to hear how it stands ageinst the 3 times more expensive, but almost the same size: Black Widow Amp


----------



## vhsownsbeta

beolab said:


> Yes, it would be very Interesting to hear how it stands ageinst the 3 times more expensive, but same size: Black Widow Amp


 

 BW looks like a very compelling amp but it isn't really the same size;
  
 LC 5" x 7" x 1.75"
  
 BW 7" x 10" x 4" + reasonably large PSU
  
 BW is SE only, despite XLR output. BW does have loop out though, which I think is quite useful. EC are about to start the second run of 100 units. 
  
 EDIT: it is _only_ twice as expensive as LC


----------



## audiofrk

I've heard both bw & lc, at different meets and different dacs. Both are good but I can't give an a/b comparison.


----------



## Barra

audiofrk said:


> I've heard both bw & lc, at different meets and different dacs. Both are good but I can't give an a/b comparison.


 
 Can you give us some basic characteristic differences that stuck in your mind -  just lasting impressions, not A/B?
  
 For example:

*SQ Tiering*: Are they both or either at the TOTL SQ tier or did one or the other seem significantly superior?
*Signature*: Are they warm, cold, smooth, bassy, neutral, colored, etc.?
*Pairing*: What paired well or seemed like they would pair well? I.E. Audeze only vs. HD800 only vs. both or other great pairings. I found the EC ZD to be extremely good paired with both LCD and HD800.
*Key Value Points*: What was it that made each interesting for you and how did they measure up during the audition?
  
 Any insights would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Evshrug

Is it really a thing where you can have a balanced cable, and then an adapter at the plug end to make it SE for mobile use? If so, I probably will go this route ^_^


----------



## runeight

Yes, this can be easily done so long as it's done correctly.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm supposed to receive, tomorrow or Saturday, a set up like this, with adapters for single ended and Pono balanced connectors, from Norne cables for the HE-1000.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Is it really a thing where you can have a balanced cable, and then an adapter at the plug end to make it SE for mobile use? If so, I probably will go this route ^_^


 
  
 Yes, want me to make you one?  BTW, having a big ol XLR connector into a teeny 3.5mm adapter isn't the most mobile friendly.


----------



## audiofrk

barra said:


> Can you give us some basic characteristic differences that stuck in your mind -  just lasting impressions, not A/B?
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...


 
*Liquid carbon* (dacs: cypher labs & yggy, headphones: ether, lcd-x, paradox slants)
  
*Transparent*- You know how people say that you can’t hear dacs? Bullschiit.  With the cypher labs (lcd-x & slants) this thing was colored, rich, and warm very old school.  With the yggy+ether it was clean and detailed with a strong bass. 
  
_*Perfect coloration*_- this thing while being transparent has a slight coloration that feels just right.  It gives a weight and body to the music that makes it palpable.
  
*Engrossing-* hard to say what was causing this but across the board the carbon tried to have the soundstage engross my head.  The y&z was great (high & width) but the x (depth) is still a mystery until I can use my gear. (remember you math plotting skills kids)
  
*Black widow* [dac-gungnir, headphones: paradox, hd650 (modded marv mods), code-x, magistrate  Kennerton audio]
  
_*Floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee*_- this amp is quick and detail giving a detailed and layered sound.  This amp is not analytical its definitely a eddie current amp.
  
*Prizefighter jab*- the bass is sharp, detailed, and powerful without overpowering the rest of the audio.
  
*Clarity* – ever heard the schiit Valhalla 2 tube amp?  You know how the music sounds so clear out of it? Some call this tube clarity.  The BW has more than any solid state I heard. 
  
 Which is better? Need them side by side it was a 1 month gap between listening sessions and I used different tracks.  I bought the carbon if that’s worth anything and I don’t regret it.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Yes, want me to make you one?  BTW, having a big ol XLR connector into a teeny 3.5mm adapter isn't the most mobile friendly.



Might have you make the cable too! I'll pay! Doesn't the LC have the option to make a balanced output to an RSA connector, supposedly smaller and better-Suited for portable? And an RSA->trrs adapter should be smaller too.

Let me know if you have a better idea for your noble.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Might have you make the cable too! I'll pay! Doesn't the LC have the option to make a balanced output to an RSA connector, supposedly smaller and better-Suited for portable? And an RSA->trrs adapter should be smaller too.
> 
> Let me know if you have a better idea for your noble.


 
  
 I was looking into this last night, making a balanced cable for my Noble 4C with a RSA adapter.  The problem is that the only RSA adapters I could find were all right-angled, so it would be pretty wonky when used with a RSA->TRS adapter.  At that point I considered just making two cables: one balanced for use with the LC and one SE for portable use.  Then I wondered how often I was going to sit in front of my desktop amp with CIEM's instead of my HE-560.  Then I lost interest in the subject.
  
 My point is, I still need to do some research on the best solution for my purposes.  We can chat about it offline.


----------



## jamato8

You can make a balanced connector with the connecter RSA uses by cutting off the end and using heat shrink. Simple and the heat shrink covers the right angle plastic that you also cut off. Makes a nice straight connecter.


----------



## Stillhart

jamato8 said:


> You can make a balanced connector with the connecter RSA uses by cutting off the end and using heat shrink. Simple and the heat shrink covers the right angle plastic that you also cut off. Makes a nice straight connecter.


 
  
 Thanks, I may have to give that a try!


----------



## Pirakaphile

Here's to hoping my balanced headphone cable gets here in time. 6-8 week build time and I got it 4 weeks ago. But he did say there were a lot of orders.. 

Oh, and I guess I need to find a power cable.


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> Cool!  Now, back to the business of getting headphones, DACs and cables for our Carbon rigs.  Is everyone all set?




Almost ready, I'm still debating whether to get an balanced cable for my UERM or if I should put it off until later. I decided to add a Schiit Sys into the chain, works wonderfully for switching between amps at a push of a button by the way. Once my Carbon gets here my Play It By Ear will probably be added back into my bedroom rig alongside my CLAS-do and Vali. One thing I definitely need to do is get another pair of Green Line RCA connectors. For those interested, for the time being I've decided to go with an iPad mini as source streaming TIDAL. I'm used to being on a ultra small laptop desk. It feels nice having a wood table with tons of room for gear. So what do you guys think?






Almost forgot, I also have a PSAudio power conditioner under the desk.


----------



## Stillhart

I never thought of using ducks to dampen vibrations!  Does that work better or worse than unicorn meat?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Looking good!  What are the two amps there?


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I never thought of using ducks to dampen vibrations!  Does that work better or worse than unicorn meat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The small one is the Lambert "Play It By Ear" amp. Larger amp looks to be a Woo WA6.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> I never thought of using ducks to dampen vibrations!  Does that work better or worse than unicorn meat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I thought they were Peeps.....lol


----------



## lukeap69

I can try those ducks on my Lyr 2. should they be matched pair?


----------



## flatmap

buttuglyjeff said:


> I thought they were Peeps.....lol


 

 Probably a very nice idea to warm up those Peeps on some Class A amps before eating.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

flatmap said:


> Probably a very nice idea to warm up those Peeps on some Class A amps before eating.


 

  Peeps are awful regardless of the temperature.
  
 My mother loved them.  She would load up my Easter basket with Peeps knowing I wouldn't touch them, and they would be all hers without her buying them specifically for herself.


----------



## defbear

I was thinking Look at all that empty space for more gear


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> I never thought of using ducks to dampen vibrations!  Does that work better or worse than unicorn meat?
> 
> Looking good!  What are the two amps there?




The three little ducks are great for attenuating overly energetic highs. The little blue guy is especially good for smoothing out female vocals when she hits the high octaves, lmao. 



axelcloris said:


> The small one is the Lambert "Play It By Ear" amp. Larger amp looks to be a Woo WA6.




You are correct my good sir.


----------



## Barra

audiofrk said:


> barra said:
> 
> 
> > Can you give us some basic characteristic differences that stuck in your mind -  just lasting impressions, not A/B?
> ...




This is very helpful. Out of curiosity, you say that the BW is not analytical and definitely EC, then talk about its clarity that is typically associated in analytical. Is this to say that this is a warmer more colored amp that doesn't get in the way of the detail? Could you clarify a little?


----------



## swspiers

this might be off topic (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I did manage to sneak an order in for one of these two days ago....


----------



## ying

swspiers said:


> this might be off topic D ), but I did manage to sneak an order in for one of these two days ago....




Wow the Liquid Carbon already sold out?


----------



## AxelCloris

ying said:


> Wow the Liquid Carbon already sold out?


 
  
 Looks like the site is still taking reservations. Honestly I'm surprised the list isn't full yet.


----------



## swspiers

ying said:


> Wow the Liquid Carbon already sold out?




All I know is that they took my order. No idea how many are left. Still, I feel lucky!


----------



## JK-47

What was your order #?


----------



## audiofrk

barra said:


> This is very helpful. Out of curiosity, you say that the BW is not analytical and definitely EC, then talk about its clarity that is typically associated in analytical. Is this to say that this is a warmer more colored amp that doesn't get in the way of the detail? Could you clarify a little?




Will try to get back to you tonight I don't like making long post on my phone


----------



## DigitalFreak

I'm guessing maybe there's a few extra units in the pipeline?


----------



## Stillhart

They aren't sold out yet, they never were.  That was a miscommunication.


----------



## swspiers

jk-47 said:


> What was your order #?


 
 910.  I'm still waiting to get an email telling me, "ooops"....


----------



## defbear

I'm in the upper 200's and I ordered within the first two hours. Even for a desirable limited edition amp or watch or anything, 500 is a whopping huge amount. Couple that with the fact that this is a relatively small community, I'm not surprised that some are still available. But they will sell out. Then where will you be.


----------



## Jeff Y

defbear said:


> *Then where will you be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hoping for a second batch or a liquid carbon 2!


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

defbear said:


> I'm in the upper 200's and I ordered within the first two hours. Even for a desirable limited edition amp or watch or anything, 500 is a whopping huge amount. Couple that with the fact that this is a relatively small community, I'm not surprised that some are still available. But they will sell out. Then where will you be.


 

 Yep. Even for super limited edition items such as the FAD LAB I and the Ocharaku Kaede, both of which were limited to only 150 units, it took about half a year or longer for those to sell through.


----------



## defbear

jeff y said:


> Hoping for a second batch or a liquid carbon 2!



What! LC2 already. Tell us the rumors  LC isnt even out yet but I have seen a couple of posts where people are going to cancel their order to free up funds for the new .... Since we ordered So Long Ago it may seem as if we have owned the LC for a while but have just not listened to it lately.


----------



## Jeff Y

defbear said:


> What! LC2 already. Tell us the rumors
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol, let's not confuse anybody.


----------



## x RELIC x

What are you guys talking about? I've had mine for the last two months and have been lost in that 'liquid sound'..........................................
.................................
...................
............
.........
......
....
...
..
.

#WakesUp!!


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Gents, here's a post I made to the other Carbon thread.
> 
> Production run seems to be moving along well. Please keep in mind that we have been saying later in August or end of August. I have learned though, that things can still go wrong, especially the first production run of a new product. Let's just keep our fingers crossed that all the various production activities stay synchronized and all the parts continue to get here on time.
> 
> ...



This post makes me really hot. This is just one side of the board? Just one channel? Haaaawt... I might have to take the case off and just look at the amp for a while. And then customize the case. I'm still putting racing stripes on.

Also, what are the little circle transformers off to the side for?


----------



## audiofrk

barra said:


> This is very helpful. Out of curiosity, you say that the BW is not analytical and definitely EC, then talk about its clarity that is typically associated in analytical. Is this to say that this is a warmer more colored amp that doesn't get in the way of the detail? Could you clarify a little?


 
   I wouldn’t say that clarity has a 1:1 relationship with analyticalness.  I always thought that clarity meant little to no background noice/hum/hiss, when you listen you get just the music.  I associate analyticalness with thin sound, lack of timber, and weak response from mid-bass down.   But I did not mean clarity in the normal definition, but tube clarity.  This is a little harder to grasp.
     
    I never really noticed tube clarity that much until I heard the leviathan (OMG good), but since the tango output transformers are extinct I’ll never hear it again.  All tube amps (woo 6, Valhalla 2, DNA strauss, etc <ranked in increasing clarity>) I heard have it to some degree but I was never really able to put my finger on it (by the way the Liquid glass definitely has good tube clarity) until I heard the leviathan then it was clear (no pun intended).  It’s like the someone took the sound and polished it so it has this shine that lets music sparkle.  I know it sounds weird but it’s hard to describe.  Another way I like to think about it is that solid state is like watching an imax movie behind a glass window.  With a good tube amp the glass window is removed


----------



## audiofrk

pirakaphile said:


> This post makes me really hot. This is just one side of the board? Just one channel? Haaaawt... I might have to take the case off and just look at the amp for a while. And then customize the case. I'm still putting racing stripes on.
> 
> Also, what are the little circle transformers off to the side for?


 
  
  
My best guess is that its part of the power supply.  My educated guess is that the incoming power goes to the:
      switch power supply ---> then it's cap buffer to deglitch ---> then fed to the transformers to remove noise ---> amp
  
However the transformers are closer to the input than the SPS so maybe it goes:
      transformers ---> switching power supply---> positive caps +negative caps---> amp?


----------



## jamato8

Most likely inductors. Does anyone have a better image?


----------



## Barra

audiofrk said:


> barra said:
> 
> 
> > This is very helpful. Out of curiosity, you say that the BW is not analytical and definitely EC, then talk about its clarity that is typically associated in analytical. Is this to say that this is a warmer more colored amp that doesn't get in the way of the detail? Could you clarify a little?
> ...



Thanks, that clears things up, pun intended. That is all good news for me as thin has never been my thing, so analytical always scares me. Does the BW have that euphoric/ ephonic tube sound that makes things lush, or does that go away with the clarity?


----------



## audiofrk

you got pm
  
 edit:
  
 just gonna say that I always found plannars to go well with cavalli amps.


----------



## ying

I am very curious also, no one really talked about how the HD 800 pairs with the Liquid Carbon. Anyone care to share?


----------



## defbear

ying said:


> I am very curious also, no one really talked about how the HD 800 pairs with the Liquid Carbon. Anyone care to share?


 

 That is always the question. How will XXX do with the HD 800's. Well, I am curious as well. I mean, I'll know when the LC arrives. But until then Anybody?


----------



## bearFNF

Actually a few of us have already said that we liked it with our HD800's...that's is one reason I bought it, BTW.


----------



## olor1n

bearfnf said:


> Actually a few of us have already said that we liked it with our HD800's...that's is one reason I bought it, BTW.


 

 Care to elaborate on the Liquid Carbon's synergy with the HD800?
  
 I doubt the Carbon can quite match the smoothness and transparency of my previous Ragnarok, but from what I've read, the Carbon is no slouch in terms of impact and dynamics and may present a more "coloured" but musically engaging signature.
  
 I loved the Ragnarok so my expectations of the Carbon are quite restrained. Can't wait to hear it though.


----------



## Beolab

Alex ; If the Carbon will look like this when final product see the daylight i think many of the head-fi:ers would scream about happiness if it possible to do, or as as an extra option later on? 

@runeight


----------



## bearFNF

olor1n said:


> Care to elaborate on the Liquid Carbon's synergy with the HD800?


 
 Heh, no not really...It's been a while since i listened to it (SoCal CanJam) and I will reserve any further comments I might have until I have it in my system.
  
 Suffice it to say that I liked what I heard enough to buy it...


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello folks, I got the change to test-drive the Carbon today. Any inside word about how much space is left until the 500 run out? Thanks so much!


----------



## ying

decentlevi said:


> Hello folks, I got the change to test-drive the Carbon today. Any inside word about how much space is left until the 500 run out? Thanks so much!


 
  
 Can you do a quick impression of the amp? That would be great!


----------



## immtbiker

buttuglyjeff said:


> Peeps are awful regardless of the temperature.
> 
> My mother loved them.  She would load up my Easter basket with Peeps knowing I wouldn't touch them, and they would be all hers without her buying them specifically for herself.


 

 That's how I got my (err…I mean, my _wife's_) DT880's. I call it an "indirect addition" to my collection!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

decentlevi said:


> Hello folks, I got the change to test-drive the Carbon today. Any inside word about how much space is left until the 500 run out? Thanks so much!


 
  
 They aren't sold out, but only Alex knows how many that is....


----------



## DecentLevi

buttuglyjeff said:


> They aren't sold out, but only Alex knows how many that is....


 
 I had a few brief conversations with Alex yesterday at the SF HeadFi meet, and he told me that they're near reaching the 500 cap limit, but no matter how many ways I tried to 'twist' him, he would only tell me that they're getting close. He also re-iterated what I've read, that after this batch they're not sure if they will continue production nor how much the price will be. Also when asking him about the circuitry, I recall him mentioning something along the lines of "discreet circuitry" and how it uses no op-amps for a cleaner sound. Sadly my memory is hazy on the exact wording but if somebody wants to elaborate on those points that would be a great read!
  


ying said:


> Can you do a quick impression of the amp? That would be great!


 
 Absolutely. Now the sound of this amp is something that will not fade from my memory! 
 Instantly, the sound from this amp gave me a super surreal feeling of spine-tingling energy! Somehow I fairly quickly came up with these words to describe the LC's sound performance: It has the energy of a tube amp, but the detail of a solid state. Knowing this isn't a tube amp, what I meant is that the sound this produces seems slightly skewed towards the sound you would expect from a TOTL tube amp in terms of energy / organic lifelike-ness / lushness, but with all the detail you could expect from a great solid state amp. It seemed like the sounds were "always out of your head", and I meant this in a good way. I tested it out with the Ether headphones and my Sennheiser HD 650's, and especially with the 650's I seemed to always get a sound in which each instrument was pristinely placed in it's proper position of the soundstage, almost so that nothing sounded like it was coming from any 1-dimensional place! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It accurately reproduced the frequency response low to high, was very lifelike and ever so slightly leaning towards 'musical', had paranormally good soundstage, and maybe what I liked even the most was the impact 'slam' how it handled the likes of drums in a pleasing way. Warren and myself both seemed to agree this is the best amp under $2,000.
  
 PS- the LC amp was also being fed music from a "Cypher Labs Algorhythms Solo -db" DAC, connected to it with TOTL balanced cables,  and was using a sort of electrically shielded power chord as thick as a snake, which I'm sure had influence on how it sounded so amazing.
  
 Edit: I initially tried it with the Ether headphones and I preferred the 650's for some fantastic synergy.


----------



## Stillhart

decentlevi said:


> PS- the LC amp was also being fed music from a "Cypher Labs Algorhythms Solo -db" DAC, connected to it with TOTL balanced cables,  and was using a sort of electrically shielded power chord as thick as a snake, which I'm sure had influence on how it sounded so amazing.


 
  
 Interesting, I did a quick search and it looks like the balanced out for the -dB is Foxconn/RSA.  Was he using a RSA to XLR cable?


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm really not sure, but I think Warren would know


----------



## elwappo99

beolab said:


> Alex ; If the Carbon will look like this when final product see the daylight i think many of the head-fi:ers would scream about happiness if it possible to do, or as as an extra option later on?
> 
> @runeight


 
  
 Wow that looks slick


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> Wow that looks slick


 
  
 Wasn't that a photoshopped mock-up from earlier in the thread?


----------



## ying

decentlevi said:


> I had a few brief conversations with Alex yesterday at the SF HeadFi meet, and he told me that they're near reaching the 500 cap limit, but no matter how many ways I tried to 'twist' him, he would only tell me that they're getting close. He also re-iterated what I've read, that after this batch they're not sure if they will continue production nor how much the price will be. Also when asking him about the circuitry, I recall him mentioning something along the lines of "discreet circuitry" and how it uses no op-amps for a cleaner sound. Sadly my memory is hazy on the exact wording but if somebody wants to elaborate on those points that would be a great read!
> 
> Absolutely. Now the sound of this amp is something that will not fade from my memory!
> Instantly, the sound from this amp gave me a super surreal feeling of spine-tingling energy! Somehow I fairly quickly came up with these words to describe the LC's sound performance: It has the energy of a tube amp, but the detail of a solid state. Knowing this isn't a tube amp, what I meant is that the sound this produces seems slightly skewed towards the sound you would expect from a TOTL tube amp in terms of energy / organic lifelike-ness / lushness, but with all the detail you could expect from a great solid state amp. It seemed like the sounds were "always out of your head", and I meant this in a good way. I tested it out with the Alpha Dog headphones and my Sennheiser HD 650's, and especially with the 650's I seemed to always get a sound in which each instrument was pristinely placed in it's proper position of the soundstage, almost so that nothing sounded like it was coming from any 1-dimensional place!
> ...


 
 woahhhhhhh what a write up, had to read it twice to make sure I wasn't dreaming, just can't wait to get my hands on it!!!! Thanks!!!!


----------



## nullstring

I've put in my order. Anyone have an updated time for delivery? Are we still expecting next month?


----------



## DigitalFreak

Hi guys, part one of the Liquid Carbon review just went live on headphone guru 5 minutes ago
  
 Please read and i hope you enjoy
  
 http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-i/


----------



## thomascrown

coitus interruptus


----------



## gr8soundz

digitalfreak said:


> Hi guys, part one of the Liquid Carbon review just went live on headphone guru 5 minutes ago
> 
> Please read and i hope you enjoy
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-i/


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Strange reading a review knowing I won't have the amp for another month after ordering 3 months ago.
  
 Nice background info on Alex and the business.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Interesting, I did a quick search and it looks like the balanced out for the -dB is Foxconn/RSA.  Was he using a RSA to XLR cable?


 
  
 Maybe the WyWires interconnect with the special grounding?  Alex did mention he was working with them....


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow that looks slick
> ...


 
  
 Yea... but it still looks slick.... We can hope


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> Yea... but it still looks slick.... We can hope


 
  
 To paraphrase my previous comment on it:  I think the carbon fiber looks cheezy and out of place on an amplifier and I'd be less inclined to purchase it if he changed it to look like that.  I think the matte black is understated in a classy way and I hope he doesn't change it.
  
 As always, YMMV.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

It could be Hello Kitty themed, and I would still be happy....
  
 ...as long as it sounds good.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> Hi guys, part one of the Liquid Carbon review just went live on headphone guru 5 minutes ago
> 
> Please read and i hope you enjoy
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-i/


 
  
 When does the rest get posted?


----------



## AxelCloris

buttuglyjeff said:


> It could be Hello Kitty themed, and I would still be happy....
> 
> ...as long as it sounds good.


 
  
 I'd hate for it to be Hello Kitty themed. Not because I wouldn't enjoy it, but because my wife would steal it from me and I'd be forced to buy a second.


----------



## ying

stillhart said:


> To paraphrase my previous comment on it:  I think the carbon fiber looks cheezy and out of place on an amplifier and I'd be less inclined to purchase it if he changed it to look like that.  I think the matte black is understated in a classy way and I hope he doesn't change it.
> 
> As always, YMMV.


 
 Haha I agree with you
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






axelcloris said:


> I'd hate for it to be Hello Kitty themed. Not because I wouldn't enjoy it, but because my wife would steal it from me and I'd be forced to buy a second.


 
 This would happen to me, my wife has a whole collection of Hello Kitty in our room. It sucks! haha


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> When does the rest get posted?




I'm hoping as soon as possible. It's up to the publishing heads but I'll be asking to have the rest go live as soon as possible.


----------



## jamato8

digitalfreak said:


> I'm hoping as soon as possible. It's up to the publishing heads but I'll be asking to have the rest go live as soon as possible.


 

 It is like leading a horse to water but not letting it drink. lol


----------



## ying

ughh, tourture!!!!!!!


----------



## ying

jamato8 said:


> It is like leading a horse to water but not letting it drink. lol


 
 UGH, Tourture!!!!!!!!! I was dying to know part 2, the most important part HOW IT SOUNDED!!


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> I'd hate for it to be Hello Kitty themed. Not because I wouldn't enjoy it, but because my wife would steal it from me and I'd be forced to buy a second.


 
 Same here Brian! She'd swipe it in a second (my wife, that is).


----------



## coastal1

decentlevi said:


> I had a few brief conversations with Alex yesterday at the SF HeadFi meet, and he told me that they're near reaching the 500 cap limit, but no matter how many ways I tried to 'twist' him, he would only tell me that they're getting close. He also re-iterated what I've read, that after this batch they're not sure if they will continue production nor how much the price will be. Also when asking him about the circuitry, I recall him mentioning something along the lines of "discreet circuitry" and how it uses no op-amps for a cleaner sound. Sadly my memory is hazy on the exact wording but if somebody wants to elaborate on those points that would be a great read!
> 
> Absolutely. Now the sound of this amp is something that will not fade from my memory!
> Instantly, the sound from this amp gave me a super surreal feeling of spine-tingling energy! Somehow I fairly quickly came up with these words to describe the LC's sound performance: It has the energy of a tube amp, but the detail of a solid state. Knowing this isn't a tube amp, what I meant is that the sound this produces seems slightly skewed towards the sound you would expect from a TOTL tube amp in terms of energy / organic lifelike-ness / lushness, but with all the detail you could expect from a great solid state amp. It seemed like the sounds were "always out of your head", and I meant this in a good way. I tested it out with the Ether headphones and my Sennheiser HD 650's, and especially with the 650's I seemed to always get a sound in which each instrument was pristinely placed in it's proper position of the soundstage, almost so that nothing sounded like it was coming from any 1-dimensional place!
> ...


 
  
 Wow, this has me excited. I'm quite satisfied with the Crack with my HD650s, but wanted to try a very good solid state amp, as well to have something that may be more compatible with future HPs, but sounds like the 650s and the LC are quite a match themself.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Hope things are on track for that late August estimate. I've heard some really great things about the Liquid Carbon's performance from a friend who is close to Cavalli. Really can't wait.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Hope things are on track for that late August estimate. I've heard some really great things about the Liquid Carbon's performance from a friend who is close to Cavalli. Really can't wait.


 
  
 I'm hoping so too.  Just because I'm on the ZMF Omni tour list.  It'd be nice to pair the two together....
  
 But I'm prepared to wait as long as it takes.


----------



## jamato8

So do they wait until is is ready to ship before charging your credit card?


----------



## Evshrug

coastal1 said:


> Wow, this has me excited. I'm quite satisfied with the Crack with my HD650s, but wanted to try a very good solid state amp, as well to have something that may be more compatible with future HPs, but sounds like the 650s and the LC are quite a match themself.




I absolutely love my super-simple 6DJ8 tube amp, it's so good that it's been the single longest-lived part of my audio collection. That said, tubes are open to EMI from phones and wifi, so if I can have a solid state amp like the LC which performs with a similarly clear sense of space and engagement I get with my super-simple tube amp, while also being able to use it next to a router or when I get a phone call, then I will be a very happy camper! The problem is I will want to set it up in every room of the house... Or is it a problem at all? LoL!




jamato8 said:


> So do they wait until is is ready to ship before charging your credit card?



Mine is already paid for... Thankfully!


----------



## Joeybgood

jamato8 said:


> So do they wait until is is ready to ship before charging your credit card?


 
 Nope... Payment upfront.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I'll try and see what I can do about getting part 2 up as quick as possible guys. Sorry about that, considering the size of the article my editors decided it might be best to go with a multipart instead of one huge article. I'll see what I can do though.


----------



## goldendarko

Yeah it's a bit of a tease now, we see sound inpressions are next but don't get to read them!


----------



## warrenpchi

LOL!


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> LOL!




^^^^*
Blame him


----------



## AxelCloris

digitalfreak said:


> ^^^^*
> Blame him


 
  
 Seems appropriate.


----------



## audiofrk

digitalfreak said:


> I'll try and see what I can do about getting part 2 up as quick as possible guys. Sorry about that, considering the size of the article my editors decided it might be best to go with a multipart instead of one huge article. I'll see what I can do though.




Just finish reading the first part. A couple of questions regarding the flow of "cavalli time". I was under the impression that he started cavalli audio after he retired and began by designing diy amps for fun, afterwords when people keep begging he began to sell finished products? 

Also he does have a small group of workers that he depends on for various roles.


----------



## pervysage

So a couple people have said the LC sounded good with the HD800's. Was wondering if the TH900's would be a good match as well? I just recently picked up the HD800's and have been looking for a good amp to drive the HD800's. It would be a bonus if they worked well with the Fostex as well.

Or should I save up and get one of their higher end amps? I'm pretty intrigued by the Cavalli line up. Wondering if there are any places to audition them in Canada.


----------



## runeight

audiofrk said:


> Just finish reading the first part. A couple of questions regarding the flow of "cavalli time". I was under the impression that he started cavalli audio after he retired and began by designing diy amps for fun, afterwords when people keep begging he began to sell finished products?
> 
> Also he does have a small group of workers that he depends on for various roles.


 
  
 This is basically true. But, I did the DIY stuff while I was still working for quite a few years as just a hobby. After about a year of the commercial CA I had to devote full time to it, hence retiring.
  
 I have an extensive supply chain and a fantastic assembly shop, but the rest of the company is still me.
  
 Someone asked about the RSA to XLR cables at the show. I made these myself because I couldn't find any and only wanted something about a foot long for connecting things on the tables. Then I bought some cheapo RCA cables where I cut out the signal pin to make the ground connection between the Solo and the Carbon. This per our discussion of grounding many posts back.
  
 There are probably other questions that I have missed.


----------



## runeight

Oh, yes, enclosure.
  
 The enclosure has been settled for a while. It will be essentially what we had in SF except that the body, which was made from four pieces for the protos, will be a single piece extrusion. Finish will be black anodize with laser etched lettering and logo, just like the proto pieces.
  
 The two amps that we used in SF were made from the last two pre-production boards, one of which was in the photos I posted about a week ago.
  
 A number of you have written about changing the LED colors, but these were set quite a while ago when all the components were ordered. White/red.


----------



## DigitalFreak

audiofrk said:


> Just finish reading the first part. A couple of questions regarding the flow of "cavalli time". I was under the impression that he started cavalli audio after he retired and began by designing diy amps for fun, afterwords when people keep begging he began to sell finished products?
> 
> Also he does have a small group of workers that he depends on for various roles.


 
  
 Read below bud.


runeight said:


> This is basically true. But, I did the DIY stuff while I was still working for quite a few years as just a hobby. After about a year of the commercial CA I had to devote full time to it, hence retiring.
> 
> I have an extensive supply chain and a fantastic assembly shop, but the rest of the company is still me.
> 
> ...


----------



## DigitalFreak

In other news, this may be off topic but I've decided to invest in a new headphone to compliment my incoming Carbon. Its going to be a sizable investment but I've decided to bite and purchase the Ether in the very near future.


----------



## AxelCloris

digitalfreak said:


> In other news, this may be off topic but I've decided to invest in a new headphone to compliment my incoming Carbon. Its going to be a sizable investment but I've decided to bite and purchase the Ether in the very near future.




Woo, welcome to the Ether/LC combo club!


----------



## DigitalFreak

axelcloris said:


> Woo, welcome to the Ether/LC combo club!


 
 Thanks, I had to really thin out the herd and sell a lot of gear I had lying around to fund the Ether. I'm almost there though. I may keep my CLAS-db and continue using it as my bedroom DAC while letting my RX MKIII-B go. I'm also going to be selling my Project Polaris amp in the next few days.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Ok guys, we're going to play a little game. I just got the publishing date for part II of the Carbon. Guess what the date is and you could win the grand prize of having Warren Chi fly down to your city and move in with you for the next month. He likes chocolate by the way so if you win stock up on lots of kit kats and three musketeers. Also buy some ear plugs because he snores. If you have a wife and kids send them off on vacation, Warren likes to wander around the house in his g-string. In the event there's a tie the true winner will be settled Mad Max style in the thunderdome.
  
 TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!
 TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!
 TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!


----------



## warrenpchi

digitalfreak said:


> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!


 
  
 Arly seems to have forgotten that I have a...


----------



## digitalzed

digitalfreak said:


> In other news, this may be off topic but I've decided to invest in a new headphone to compliment my incoming Carbon. Its going to be a sizable investment but I've decided to bite and purchase the Ether in the very near future.


 

 Based on my limited experience at the SF Head-Fi meet you will not be disappointed. The sound was spectacular.


----------



## DecentLevi

pervysage said:


> So a couple people have said the LC sounded good with the HD800's. Was wondering if the TH900's would be a good match as well? I just recently picked up the HD800's and have been looking for a good amp to drive the HD800's. It would be a bonus if they worked well with the Fostex as well.
> 
> Or should I save up and get one of their higher end amps? I'm pretty intrigued by the Cavalli line up. Wondering if there are any places to audition them in Canada.


 
 So ironically I got a message from a Fostex TH 900 owner today who had tried his with the LC amp at the meet last weekend. 
_"I spent some time trying out higher end amps with my TH900, and it was nice to hear that they do indeed scale up very nicely with better amplification. In fact, I was so impressed by the slightly warm but dynamic sound I got from the Liquid Carbon (that bass punch!)"_
  
 Alex said with a straight face that the LC works well with all headphones - so there's no reason to worry if your specific headphone will work with it, but I do assume some will have better synergy than others. For where you can buy it in Canada, I think it may be sold online only shipped anywhere, and for where you can try it in Canada, I only know to suggest trying the forums for upcoming headphone meets if they may have one coming up there:
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/24/local-regional-head-fi-meets-parties-get-togethers


----------



## Beolab

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, we're going to play a little game. I just got the publishing date for part II of the Carbon. Guess what the date is and you could win the grand prize of having Warren Chi fly down to your city and move in with you for the next month. He likes chocolate by the way so if you win stock up on lots of kit kats and three musketeers. Also buy some ear plugs because he snores. If you have a wife and kids send them off on vacation, Warren likes to wander around the house in his g-string. In the event there's a tie the true winner will be settled Mad Max style in the thunderdome.
> 
> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!
> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!
> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!


 

25th of July ?  


 I see the g-string picture in front of me, something like this but with a pair of cans on the head ?


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh, PS- I just splurged and got my own LC ordered online early this morning - I'm happy to be one of the 'lucky 500'! So now unfortunately for any of you who are still on the fence there's 1 less chance that you'll still make it in time.
  
 Hearing that the LC are still in pre-production, I just hope that the sound from the final production will sound more/less exactly the same as the one I tried at the SF meet.


----------



## x RELIC x

decentlevi said:


> Oh, PS- I just splurged and got my own LC ordered online early this morning - I'm happy to be one of the *'lucky 500'!* So now unfortunately for any of you who are still on the fence there's 1 less chance that you'll still make it in time.
> 
> Hearing that the LC are still in pre-production, I just hope that the sound from the final production will wound more/less exactly the same as the one I tried at the SF meet.





I don't know why but this is what I thought of when you said lucky 500, lol!


----------



## aamefford

beolab said:


> 25th of July ?
> 
> 
> I see the g-string picture in front of me, something like this but with a pair of cans on the head ?



Come On! I can't just unsee that. Worse, I see Warren in that. Ugh.


----------



## DigitalFreak

aamefford said:


> Come On! I can't just unsee that. Worse, I see Warren in that. Ugh.


 
 What we need now is a pic of Warren and someone whose good with photoshop


----------



## DigitalFreak

beolab said:


> 25th of July ?


 
 Nope


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> Come On! I can't just unsee that. Worse, I see Warren in that. Ugh.


 
  
 I also had a vision of the word "Schiit" on there... somewhere...


----------



## warrenpchi

decentlevi said:


> Oh, PS- I just splurged and got my own LC ordered online early this morning


 
  
 I KNEW YOU WOULD!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aamefford said:


> beolab said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
  
 Lol, you are mistaking me for Jude.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Damn shipping costs though...


----------



## DecentLevi

Excerpt from the Guru review:
  
_"The Carbon offers balanced input and output. In fact, there are no single-ended inputs. Even the RCA and TRS inputs are run through phase splitters to generate an opposing phase. Alex did this because he wanted everybody to receive the benefits of balanced input, even if their DACs were not capable of such. So no matter what source you use, you’re getting balanced input with the Carbon"_
  
So would you folks say that there is still any benefit of using a balanced input versus RCA, or would either yield about the same result? For the output I'll be using a SE headphone cable initially but plan to upgrade to a balanced later.


----------



## Emerpus

decentlevi said:


> Excerpt from the Guru review:
> 
> _"The Carbon offers balanced input and output. In fact, there are no single-ended inputs. Even the RCA and TRS inputs are run through phase splitters to generate an opposing phase. Alex did this because he wanted everybody to receive the benefits of balanced input, even if their DACs were not capable of such. So no matter what source you use, you’re getting balanced input with the Carbon"_
> 
> So would you folks say that there is still any benefit of using a balanced input versus RCA, or would either yield about the same result? For the output I'll be using a SE headphone cable initially but plan to upgrade to a balanced later.


 
  
 I would think that the XLR interconnect would still provide better noise rejection. Whether it would make an appreciable sonic impact ... I'm not sure till I hear it for myself


----------



## DigitalFreak

decentlevi said:


> Excerpt from the Guru review:
> 
> _"The Carbon offers balanced input and output. In fact, there are no single-ended inputs. Even the RCA and TRS inputs are run through phase splitters to generate an opposing phase. Alex did this because he wanted everybody to receive the benefits of balanced input, even if their DACs were not capable of such. So no matter what source you use, you’re getting balanced input with the Carbon"_
> 
> So would you folks say that there is still any benefit of using a balanced input versus RCA, or would either yield about the same result? For the output I'll be using a SE headphone cable initially but plan to upgrade to a balanced later.


 
 I can't really comment on that because my DAC is RCA out, even my new 2Qute which everyone loves with the Carbon is a RCA connection. As for the headphone out, go balanced, its worth the investment in my opinion. 
  
 I'm gonna crash guys. I've had a long day and I'm up only because of insomnia
 Nght


----------



## BucketInABucket

How would the relatively cheap AMB Gamma2 DAC pair with the LC?


----------



## AxelCloris

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, we're going to play a little game. I just got the publishing date for part II of the Carbon. Guess what the date is and you could win the grand prize of having Warren Chi fly down to your city and move in with you for the next month. He likes chocolate by the way so if you win stock up on lots of kit kats and three musketeers. Also buy some ear plugs because he snores. If you have a wife and kids send them off on vacation, Warren likes to wander around the house in his g-string. In the event there's a tie the true winner will be settled Mad Max style in the thunderdome.
> 
> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!
> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!
> TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES!!!


 
  
 Am I eligible to take part in this contest?


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems to me, a better single ended DAC well sound better than a lesser balanced DAC.
just got my cable for my HEK, balanced for LC with adaptors for single ended and for balanced Pono from Norne. Actually works really from Pono balanced...now waiting for the LC!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> Arly seems to have forgotten that I have a...


 
  
 I love the smell of ban hammer in the morning.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I say a temp ban for Arly, till he posts part 2....


----------



## lukeap69

+1 temp ban for Arly until Warren approved the part 2 of the review!


----------



## swspiers

decentlevi said:


> So would you folks say that there is still any benefit of using a balanced input versus RCA, or would either yield about the same result? For the output I'll be using a SE headphone cable initially but plan to upgrade to a balanced later.


 
 I've been reading this debate for years, and I'll finally be able to experiment with it myself, using both balanced and SE out of my Benchmark DAC-1.  I even have a balanced cable on the way for my Primes.  It's going to be a fun month when I get the LC!


----------



## Evshrug

digitalfreak said:


> Ok guys, we're going to play a little game. I just got the publishing date for part II of the Carbon.



Hmm... The LC will release late next month (Oh crap! Just realized I have to update my shipping address!!!), and I bet Frank loves to build the hype, _but_ there's only a finite production run for the foreseeable future, which could run out of inventory at any moment (but adds to HYPE!). So, I'm going to guess somewhere in the middle... Tomorrow? LoL! If I can have two guesses/entries (want that prize!), I'd guess August 7. Wednesday and Friday, respectively! Prime time slots!


----------



## Evshrug

Also, preeeeeeeetty sure that Alex and Warren said the Liquid Carbon has both SE and Balanced inputs. I could see you arguing that after making an input connection the signal is universally separated to balanced operation for the amping stage, but I think it's more helpful and accurate to say that the actual jacks/sockets are balanced or SE type (I don't have a unit in front of me, I believe it was 4-pin XLR and RCA input jacks?) for people like me who will probably need to but the right cable. Thanks.


----------



## audiofrk

runeight said:


> This is basically true. But, I did the DIY stuff while I was still working for quite a few years as just a hobby. After about a year of the commercial CA I had to devote full time to it, hence retiring.
> 
> I have an extensive supply chain and a fantastic assembly shop, but the rest of the company is still me.




Ah I see thanks


----------



## mscott58

evshrug said:


> Also, preeeeeeeetty sure that Alex and Warren said the Liquid Carbon has both SE and Balanced inputs. I could see you arguing that after making an input connection the signal is universally separated to balanced operation for the amping stage, but I think it's more helpful and accurate to say that the actual jacks/sockets are balanced or SE type (I don't have a unit in front of me, I believe it was 4-pin XLR and RCA input jacks?) for people like me who will probably need to but the right cable. Thanks.


 
 The input jacks on the LC are RCA and 3.5mm TRS plug (for single-ended) and 3-pin XLR (for balanced). There's a button on the front that allows you to select BAL or SE (the 3.5mm and RCA are wired together).
  
 The outputs are 1/4 TRS (for SE) and RSA and 4-pin XLR (for balanced). 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Evshrug

Exactly, thanks! It just seems significant that there are SE and Bal inputs and a selector.


----------



## mscott58

evshrug said:


> Exactly, thanks! It just seems significant that there are SE and Bal inputs and a selector.


 
 I'm guessing the selector is there not only to direct the signal the right place but also so the circuit knows to go ahead and split the SE into two phases.


----------



## jamato8

So is the LC optimized for balanced or both balanced and SE? I have heard some amps that do better in one mode or the other, seeming to have had the circuit designed primarily for one purpose or their other.


----------



## runeight

jamato8 said:


> So is the LC optimized for balanced or both balanced and SE? I have heard some amps that do better in one mode or the other, seeming to have had the circuit designed primarily for one purpose or their other.


 
  
 The LC isn't really optimized for either type of operation. It's a balanced amp that can accept SE input and deliver SE output.
  
 But, let's clarify the input. I think we've already talked about the SE vs. Bal output enough, but maybe more detail on how the input works would be helpful.
  
 The input switching relays switch four signal lines, two for each channel (i.e., the full balanced signal). When coming in from the XLR connectors, the +/- phases go right to the relays..
  
 The SE input, however, goes immediately to the phase splitters and comes out of the splitters as four signals, +/- for each channel. Then goes to the other set of contacts on the relays.
  
 At this point both the XLR and SE inputs look exactly the same to the amp (fully balanced signals). Then input selector just chooses which one to feed to the amp sections.
  
 Another small detail. When the SE signal is phase split, the original (+) signal retains its amplitude. The new (-) signal is created with the same amplitude, but out of phase. Thus, the new balanced signal, essentially, has twice the amplitude of the original SE in.
  
 Most, but not all, sources with Bal and SE outs supply only half the amplitude from the SE output (i.e., a single phase). If you were to plug both of outputs from the same source into the Carbon at the same time, because the Carbon "doubles" the SE input, and then switch from Bal to SE and back again, you won't hear any volume change.
  
 I have encountered one or two sources that don't work this way, but most of them seem to.


----------



## jamato8

runeight said:


> The LC isn't really optimized for either type of operation. It's a balanced amp that can accept SE input and deliver SE output.
> 
> But, let's clarify the input. I think we've already talked about the SE vs. Bal output enough, but maybe more detail on how the input works would be helpful.
> 
> ...


 

 Great, thank you. Good information.


----------



## pervysage

Just out of curiosity, what happens when you connect one headphone pair of headphones to the balanced out and one pair to the SE out. Will it play out of both headphones?


----------



## runeight

pervysage said:


> Just out of curiosity, what happens when you connect one headphone pair of headphones to the balanced out and one pair to the SE out. Will it play out of both headphones?


 
  
 Yes, it will play both. One side of each channel will be used more heavily than the other.


----------



## Pirakaphile

digitalfreak said:


> In other news, this may be off topic but I've decided to invest in a new headphone to compliment my incoming Carbon. Its going to be a sizable investment but I've decided to bite and purchase the Ether in the very near future.



I've heard quite a bit about it, and I'm wondering if I should get an Ether or invest in the HE-6 in the future. I guess the question is, which one is the most musical?


----------



## DigitalFreak

As requested, we have sound impressions
  
 http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-ii/


----------



## Jeff Y

digitalfreak said:


> As requested, we have sound impressions
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-ii/


 
 Great that we have sound impressions at last but I have to say I am not impressed in some ways. I don't really get the writer's sound description. It's like "here's three amps and apparently Liquid Carbon sounds good in many ways" and that's it. Maybe I'm too used to reading Stereophile and other stuff but the article just doesn't get to me. Sorry if I sound like I am stupidly complaining but it would have been nice if there were references to recordings used, instrument descriptions at least. Despite the article having the quote from Dr. Cavalli being put in the article talking about "thorough" comparisons, to me, personally at least, it doesn't really explain much.
  
 It's not that descriptions like "smooth sounding" or "bass had excellent control" is bad, it's just that it doesn't really help understand the overall sound when there's not much reference to recordings or instruments like I have written beforehand.
  
 But then I've read the same writer's other articles before such as the one about the EL-8 Closed which I respectfully could not agree with at all (EL-8 sounds totally broken across the frequency range for me) so I know that this person and I have very different agendas when it comes to sound.
  
 I hope I am making sense to certain people and that I didn't annoy any.
 Cheers.


----------



## olor1n

I stopped reading when I realised the HD800 wasn't part of this "thorough" review.


----------



## Jeff Y

olor1n said:


> I stopped reading when I realised the HD800 wasn't part of this "thorough" review.


 
 Pretty much an all-planar review for part 2. K712 isn't to my liking so I don't care for it and that's supposed to be in the next part.
 Nevertheless, I'm sure it should be a good amp, especially at the price.


----------



## DigitalFreak

jeff y said:


> Great that we have sound impressions at last but I have to say I am not impressed in some ways. I don't really get the writer's sound description. It's like "here's three amps and apparently Liquid Carbon sounds good in many ways" and that's it. Maybe I'm too used to reading Stereophile and other stuff but the article just doesn't get to me. Sorry if I sound like I am stupidly complaining but it would have been nice if there were references to recordings used, instrument descriptions at least. Despite the article having the quote from Dr. Cavalli being put in the article talking about "thorough" comparisons, to me, personally at least, it doesn't really explain much.
> 
> It's not that descriptions like "smooth sounding" or "bass had excellent control" is bad, it's just that it doesn't really help understand the overall sound when there's not much reference to recordings or instruments like I have written beforehand.
> 
> ...


 
 With all due respect, I mentioned some of the music I evaluate gear with in all my articles. I also try to steer away from mentioning specific tracks for the simple fact most people have different tastes in music and I highly doubt if I mentioned a tune from say Budgie, Frames or say Melodie Gardot a lot of people would know what I'm talking about considering everyone has wide tastes in music. I also take umbrage to the use of the word "agenda". Considering I bought a unit like everyone else I have nothing to gain therefore where's my so called "agenda" you seem to allude to? As for the EL-8 closed back, I was even handed with that review like i am with all my reviews. I'm sorry you hated the EL-8 and the honest truth is if I had the choice I wouldn't buy the closed back for myself either but enough others have and seem to enjoy their purchases.  My apologies for disappointing you so much please feel free to run out and buy a Carbon and post your own review on the thread concerning your findings. I'm sure the thread would welcome other viewpoints


----------



## Beolab

digitalfreak said:


> As requested, we have sound impressions
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-ii/


 
  
 Nice review DigitalFreak
  
 It had been nice to read about your thoughts and impressions on the less sensitive cans like the HE-6 / Abyss, if the Carbon was able to control does kind of headphones?
  
 Then i think the amps your put up against the Carbon was a little to easy meal for the Carbon to digest, and had also been interesting to compare it to a more expensive amp, like a reference on what you are going to miss out or not miss if you buy the Carbon.
  
 Maybe in part III 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  , or next time..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Keep up the good work!


----------



## Jeff Y

digitalfreak said:


> With all due respect, I mentioned some of the music I evaluate gear with in all my articles. I also try to steer away from mentioning specific tracks for the simple fact most people have different tastes in music and I highly doubt if I mentioned a tune from say Budgie, Frames or say Melodie Gardot a lot of people would know what I'm talking about considering everyone has wide tastes in music. I also take umbrage to the use of the word "agenda". Considering I bought a unit like everyone else I have nothing to gain therefore where's my so called "agenda" you seem to allude to? As for the EL-8 closed back, I was even handed with that review like i am with all my reviews. I'm sorry you hated the EL-8 and the honest truth is if I had the choice I wouldn't buy the closed back for myself either but enough others have and seem to enjoy their purchases.  My apologies for disappointing you so much


 
 Thank you for the honest and thoughtful response. Sorry if I sound rude in any way. By agenda I meant what one looks for in terms of sound.
 One thing is that I am used to and know well what kind of sound "agenda" certain reviewers have like Tyll from Innerfidelity because he has written many many articles and talks about the FR graphs often. As a result, with reviewers I am used to, I am able to to a certain extent, know already what type of sound he/she looks for and what conclusion to draw myself from reading the review from the reviewer's own conclusion and thoughts. So, it is difficult for me to understand your article personally not only because there are no references a particular recording's particular section sounding different compared to different amps, I don't know all reviewers well. Making matters worse for me in this respect, lack of recordings made it even harder to judge the reviewer's preference in sound.
 Hopefully I am making some sense here to you and also I hope that you don't assume I am disappointed so much because every review I read, I keep the YMMV rule in mind. People have different writing styles just as they like different music so please think of what I wrote as just a thought of mine. I'd hate to "judge" someone because I don't represent anyone else but myself anyways.
 Cheers.


----------



## DigitalFreak

jeff y said:


> Thank you for the honest and thoughtful response. Sorry if I sound rude in any way. By agenda I meant what one looks for in terms of sound.
> One thing is that I am used to and know well what kind of sound "agenda" certain reviewers have like Tyll from Innerfidelity because he has written many many articles and talks about the FR graphs often. As a result, with reviewers I am used to, I am able to to a certain extent, know already what type of sound he/she looks for and what conclusion to draw myself from reading the review from the reviewer's own conclusion and thoughts. So, it is difficult for me to understand your article personally not only because there are no references a particular recording's particular section sounding different compared to different amps, I don't know all reviewers well. Making matters worse for me in this respect, lack of recordings made it even harder to judge the reviewer's preference in sound.
> Hopefully I am making some sense here to you and also I hope that you don't assume I am disappointed so much because every review I read, I keep the YMMV rule in mind. People have different writing styles just as they like different music so please think of what I wrote as just a thought of mine. I'd hate to "judge" someone because I don't represent anyone else but myself anyways.
> Cheers.


 
 Ok, I understand where you're coming from now. My apologies, at first read I thought I was being attacked. Its now obvious I wasn't.
 I like to keep my stuff as to the point and general as possible so as to be used as a starting point. While you like to use graphs and music as a guide I know enough people who aren't crazy about that style of review and feel as confused as you may be when they're used. Sorry bud, I guess I'm not the type of reviewer that works for you.


----------



## DigitalFreak

beolab said:


> Nice review DigitalFreak
> 
> It had been nice to read about your thoughts and impressions on the less sensitive cans like the HE-6 / Abyss, if the Carbon was able to control does kind of headphones?
> 
> ...


 
 Believe it or not, those two amps perform very well for their price point. Matter of fact they're quite exceptional for their price point. I do agree though, I wish I had more on hand to give the Carbon more of a challenge. One day my friend....maybe there will be a Liquid Lightening in my future in a few years time.


----------



## Jeff Y

digitalfreak said:


> Ok, I understand where you're coming from now. My apologies, at first read I thought I was being attacked. Its now obvious I wasn't.
> I like to keep my stuff as to the point and general as possible so as to be used as a starting point. While you like to use graphs and music as a guide I know enough people who aren't crazy about that style of review and feel as confused as you may be when they're used. Sorry bud, I guess I'm not the type of reviewer that works for you.


 
 All is good because I like being able to share thoughts like this the most out of all the things that are great about Head-fi.
 I like to read all reviews available when I seriously try to tell what a product is like because I want to buy it. Whether it be from headphone.guru, some random person on Head-fi, innerfidelity, headfonia, dar, and so on. By the intent of your article you nailed it. It is indeed a good starting place to get familiar with different products.
 But yes, I love graphs, recordings, and things like that. Still, variety does not hurt at all and I was admittedly anticipating in my head some speculations about the sound and the review beforehand by myself which turned out to be different from my imagination. I guess was rather a bit short-sighted, that's all.
 Cheers.


----------



## lukeap69

Thanks for the par deux Arly. I know that everyone's preference differs from person to person, I kinda like the amps performance per headphones style and comparison with other amps as well. Only disappointment is that HD800 wasn't included as I was in the fence in buying one (LC). I guess I will just save up for the Master 11 and keep my Theorem 720 as my 'portable amp' (and DAC.)


----------



## gr8soundz

Thanks to @DigitalFreak for writing such a detailed review (with more to come).
  
 I like the fact that he doesn't focus on his preferred sound (although he mentions his go-to headphone) but rather is comparing the LC to similar sized/priced headphone amps (there aren't many like the LC). So, instead of saying amp 1 is better than amp 2 because 1 is closer to what he likes, he broke down each with every headphone, almost as if there'd be a moment when the LC didn't come out on top with a certain phone.
  
 Doing each headphone separately with all 3 amps gives us the best chance to draw our own conclusions (assuming we've heard at least 1 device in the chain). I was even able to gather how the LCD-X compares to the LCD-3, regardless of the amp. It must have taken a ton of time to be that thorough.
  
 It's impossible to include every headphone but he did mention that Dr. Cavalli sent him most of the headphones and cables used in the review. I'm betting that even if the HD800 were included then people would ask about that headphone with a completely different amp compared to it with the LC. There's just no way for the reviewer to cover each person's point of reference no matter how popular.
  
 If we can't get a decent measure of where the LC stands after reading a review like this (and assuming other reviewers don't quite cover someone's particular point of reference) then, short of waiting to try the LC for ourselves, we never will.
  
 Eagerly awaiting part iii........


----------



## audiofrk

digitalfreak said:


> With all due respect, I mentioned some of the music I evaluate gear with in all my articles. I also try to steer away from mentioning specific tracks for the simple fact most people have different tastes in music and I highly doubt if I mentioned a tune from say Budgie, Frames or say Melodie Gardot a lot of people would know what I'm talking about considering everyone has wide tastes in music. I also take umbrage to the use of the word "agenda". Considering I bought a unit like everyone else I have nothing to gain therefore where's my so called "agenda" you seem to allude to? As for the EL-8 closed back, I was even handed with that review like i am with all my reviews. I'm sorry you hated the EL-8 and the honest truth is if I had the choice I wouldn't buy the closed back for myself either but enough others have and seem to enjoy their purchases.  My apologies for disappointing you so much please feel free to run out and buy a Carbon and post your own review on the thread concerning your findings. I'm sure the thread would welcome other viewpoints




You and I are on the same page the closed back el8 was horrible. The open back one had strong authoritative bass though. To bad the rest of the frequency response was nothing to write home about still to heavy and expensive for what it is. 

PS im not a fan of audeze headphones, in case anyone was wondering about my taste. If you are a fan, best to look elsewhere for audeze headphone impressions


----------



## Serenitty

digitalfreak said:


> As requested, we have sound impressions
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-ii/


 

 I find it amusing that I'm eagerly reading a review for an amp I bought months ago..  I am looking forward to part III's discussion of the unicorn pairing.  I'm sure the LC will sound good with the T1's I already have, but Christmas isn't that far away and the Ether is tempting...


----------



## mscott58

serenitty said:


> I find it amusing that I'm eagerly reading a review for an amp I bought months ago..  I am looking forward to part III's discussion of the unicorn pairing.  I'm sure the LC will sound good with the T1's I already have, but Christmas isn't that far away and the Ether is tempting...


 
 Interestingly, a large number of reviews on products are actually read by people that have already bought products, especially cars. People seek data to reinforce a decision they've already made as much as they do to make the actual decision in the first place...


----------



## goldendarko

Just no one admits to it


----------



## immtbiker

serenitty said:


> I find it amusing that I'm eagerly reading a review for an amp I bought months ago..  I am looking forward to part III's discussion of the unicorn pairing.  I'm sure the LC will sound good with the T1's I already have, but Christmas isn't that far away and the Ether is tempting...


 

 Probably because are so hungry for it, waiting in dire anticipation, that we are willing to live the experience vicariously through others while we suffer (in a good way, of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Nice reviews,* DigiF*…I enjoy your writing style.


----------



## swspiers

goldendarko said:


> Just no one admits to it


 
 Oh, I admit to it eagerly.  But there's much more to it than merely reinforcing a decision.  It's part of the fun!


----------



## bflat

This is all perfectly normal. LC is a kick starter type introduction where all we can do is buy via paper specs and we are rewarded with a very good deal for something that should sell for much higher than $599. I'm sure the far majority of folks who pre-ordered did not get a chance to audition because it's only available at local meets and shows. I'm sure all of us are very interested to know "what the hell did I just buy?" especially those who have never heard any of the Cavalli amps before (like me) Any reviews are greatly appreciated. When I went to the recent SF meet, that was the first time I had a chance to audition and it's nearly 3 months after I ordered. I really wanted to walk out with the demo unit LOL. So here are my impressions:
  
 I listened in balanced mode with my K10s and T5P. Alex graciously let me plug in my USB drive so I can listen to my own tracks. He had a Mac running Audirvana which is exactly what I have at home. The only thing different with my home setup is that the LC was connected to a Chord Hugo as a DAC whereas my home setup is a Schiit Gungnir.
  
 My overall impressions for both headphones are similar - the LC is a very neutral and transparent amp. No pun intended, but it will amplify the frequency response of your cans and not add any of it's own coloration. The LC adds so much dynamic and clean sound across the frequency spectrum compared to my RWAK240 and SR71-B. I know this isn't the most descriptive, but it just enhances all of the qualities of your source and your cans. I had hoped that LC would add some warmth to the low end of my T5P, but it doesn't. However, it does extend the bass further so I do hear an improvement in bass response, but it is not quantity, just better quality. On my K10s, it's just heaven since I love the sound profile of the K10s. Simply put, it makes the K10s sound like a more dynamic K10.
  
 If you were looking for an amp that colors your cans - warmer, cooler, or what not, LC is not going to give you that. However if you have any headphone that you just love the way it's tuned, the LC will take it to a whole new level. I probably won't match this with my T5P. I ended up getting a tube amp to add much needed warmth and low end plus smoothing of the high end for my preferred tuning.
  
 (Corrected)One more note to share - Alex recommends that you don't place the LC on a warm/hot surface. It has double sided PCB. One channel is on the bottom and is already getting heat from the top so adding heat from the base would not be good. I was going to stack this on top of my Gungnir, but I'll need to figure out a way to put some spacers underneath to get good air flow.


----------



## immtbiker

bflat said:


> ...One more note to share - Alex recommends that you don't place the LC on a warm/hot surface. It has two PCBs stacked on top of each other. The one on the bottom is already getting heat from the top so adding heat from the base would not be good. I was going to stack this on top of my Gungnir, but I'll need to figure out a way to put some spacers underneath to get good air flow.


 
  
 This is excellent information. Thanks for sharing it with us!


----------



## digitalzed

immtbiker said:


> This is excellent information. Thanks for sharing it with us!


 

 I agree! Now I have to work on a different location, too. But it's better to know.


----------



## BucketInABucket

bucketinabucket said:


> How would the relatively cheap AMB Gamma2 DAC pair with the LC?


 
 Bump


----------



## vhsownsbeta

bucketinabucket said:


> How would the relatively cheap AMB Gamma2 DAC pair with the LC?






bucketinabucket said:


> Bump




Impressions involving an unreleased product may be difficult...


----------



## Joeybgood

digitalzed said:


> ditto. also pairing my LC with my Gungnir. Perhaps a plexi platform elevated with 1-2" feet to place upon the Gungnir. Hopefully that would be sufficient clearance.


----------



## DecentLevi

That's an interesting note that the LC has 2 PCBs. Makes me interested to see what the LC looks like 'under cover'.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

decentlevi said:


> That's an interesting note that the LC has 2 PCBs. Makes me interested to see what the LC looks like 'under cover'.




We already know...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/2145#post_11760274

"Both amps and PS are on top and bottom of board. In fact, all you see in these pics is the left channel. The right channel is identical and on the bottom side."


----------



## runeight

Yes, this last post is correct. There is only one board with the left channel on the top of the board and the right channel (identical) on the bottom of the board.
  
 It is a good idea to not heat the bottom of the LC too much since this will unevenly heat left/right channels. But this doesn't mean that you can't put it on top of something that gets warm. This will be ok. Just don't sit it on top of something that gets hot and that will cause the underside of the LC to heat up significantly. This is a small detail however. The components in the are pretty rugged and won't really suffer from temperature so long as it's reasonable.
  
 I realize that warm and hot are subjective, but I think you all have a good sense of what they mean.


----------



## audiofrk

runeight said:


> Yes, this last post is correct. There is only one board with the left channel on the top of the board and the right channel (identical) on the bottom of the board.
> 
> It is a good idea to not heat the bottom of the LC too much since this will unevenly heat left/right channels. But this doesn't mean that you can't put it on top of something that gets warm. This will be ok. Just don't sit it on top of something that gets hot and that will cause the underside of the LC to heat up significantly. This is a small detail however. The components in the are pretty rugged and won't really suffer from temperature so long as it's reasonable.
> 
> I realize that warm and hot are subjective, but I think you all have a good sense of what they mean.


 

 HA! Jokes on you I have no sense.


----------



## BucketInABucket

vhsownsbeta said:


> Impressions involving an unreleased product may be difficult...




Well considering there are impressions with all sorts of gears already I went ahead and hoped


----------



## warrenpchi

audiofrk said:


> runeight said:
> 
> 
> > I realize that warm and hot are subjective, but I think you all have a good sense of what they mean.
> ...


 
  
 Sadly, that's true.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  You're gonna have to think of some interesting metaphors Alex.


----------



## A2029

runeight said:


> Yes, this last post is correct. There is only one board with the left channel on the top of the board and the right channel (identical) on the bottom of the board.
> 
> It is a good idea to not heat the bottom of the LC too much since this will unevenly heat left/right channels. But this doesn't mean that you can't put it on top of something that gets warm. This will be ok. Just don't sit it on top of something that gets hot and that will cause the underside of the LC to heat up significantly. This is a small detail however. The components in the are pretty rugged and won't really suffer from temperature so long as it's reasonable.
> 
> I realize that warm and hot are subjective, but I think you all have a good sense of what they mean.


 
  
 Warm:

  
 Hot:

  
  
 Or somethin' like that?


----------



## warrenpchi

swich401 said:


> Warm:
> 
> 
> Hot:
> ...


 
  
 Wow, clearly you and I have some very different ideas about temperature.


----------



## DecentLevi

My thoughts on part 2 the Guru LC review:
  
 Firstly, your taste in music seems broad and awesome, with some great tastes in electronica (K & D, Daft), 80's rock, etc. Interesting you compared this SS amp with 2 other tube amps. I imagine you'll get a little backlash from any audiophile purists who say that makes it in unfair comparison, but for me that's OK, not to mention ironic as my main amp right now is the Ember 2.0. BTW my favorite (single) tube so far is the Tall Raytheon 6SN7 GTB; it gives a slightly bright yet clean, detailed, hard hitting sound with good FR. (using a 6SN7 tube adapter for it to work with the larger tubes). But my favorite tube overall with the Ember is the so called 'Franken Ember' setup with dual RCA 7193 tubes.
  
 It looks like in part 3 you're going to tell us how some of your dynamic 'cans pair with the Ember. I can just about guarantee the K712's will perform brilliantly as did my HD 650's which are like its' brother; of which are my favorite so far the Ether with the LC amp.
  
 Oh and for the haters, unfortunately it looks like Arly's taken away our reason to get him ban hammerred


----------



## Superpong

Order placed !!


----------



## doctorjazz

No one can ever compare the reviewed item to every other similar option out there, not the "professional' reviewers in the mags, certainly not me. If you're able to get some comparison to be able to get a sense of what the component in question sounds like, that's all one can ask.


----------



## DigitalFreak

decentlevi said:


> My thoughts on part 2 the Guru LC review:
> 
> Firstly, your taste in music seems broad and awesome, with some great tastes in electronica (K & D, Daft), 80's rock, etc. Interesting you compared this SS amp with 2 other tube amps. I imagine you'll get a little backlash from any audiophile purists who say that makes it in unfair comparison, but for me that's OK, not to mention ironic as my main amp right now is the Ember 2.0. BTW my favorite (single) tube so far is the [COLOR=222222]Tall Raytheon 6SN7 GTB; it gives a slightly bright yet clean, detailed, hard hitting sound with good FR. (using a 6SN7 tube adapter for it to work with the larger tubes). But my favorite tube overall with the Ember is the so called 'Franken Ember' setup with dual RCA 7193 tubes.[/COLOR]
> 
> ...




I'd say you are correct in your assumption that the K712 paired well. As for your question, my favourite pairing out of the bunch was the Ether. It was by far the most neutral and dynamic sounding of the bunch. Mind you, I like that combo because I generally like neutral and my thinking was that it would make a great benchmarking set up for other gear in future. The most fun pairing out of the bunch was the Audeze cans. The LCD 3 was a especially enjoyable listen. 

Thanks for your kind words my friend. Again, sorry to the thread if I went off the rails a couple of days ago. I should've stopped and reread that one post instead of going all keyboard warrior, sorry about that.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Bah, was hoping for UERM listening impressions in part II


----------



## immtbiker

decentlevi said:


> Oh and for the haters, unfortunately it looks like Arly's taken away our reason to get him ban hammerred


 
  
 I don't really feel that a review is up for grabs to critique. That's not why we review.
 The reviewer publishes what they feel about a product, and the reader takes what they get from it. Everyone gets something different.
  
 Since when are we reviewing reviews? Some reviews are vey clinical showing graphs and charts doing paper comparisons, and other reviews give you a good read and help you relate to the 
 product by triggering things that each reader can associate with and to offer various insights. How can anyone imagine that anyone working for any review site, other than a Stereophile type,
 have access to all the headphones that the hobby offers. Reviewers do not get handed free $1500 equipment. They pay like everyone else. So, when somewhen says that a review isn't very good
 because the writer didn't use the HD800, I feel that the statement is a bit shortsighted and egocentric. That's what is important to that one reader…not all readers. 
  
  
 Charts and graphs are not for everybody, just for some, and there are plenty of other reviews that a reader can find them in.
 You take what you can from a review that pertains to your interest, and it's either a good review overall, or it's not. And…just as with reviews, this is all "IMHO" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Sorry for the O.T. but it does pertain to what is being said in this thread. I digress…..


----------



## warrenpchi

immtbiker said:


> Sorry for the O.T. but it does pertain to what is being said in this thread. I digress…..


 
  
 My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.


----------



## aamefford

bucketinabucket said:


> Bump


 
 I have not heard the pairing.  I have heard both components in meet setting.  I think they would be fine together.  The Gamma2 is a nice dac.


----------



## jamato8

Well after ordered this amp I got my Whiplash modular cable today that I am using for the HE1000 and had it terminated with the Kobiconn for balanced (what Cavalli, RSA and others are using) and from that I have an adapter to 3.5 TRS. This modular design is exciting. All I need is the Y on the headphones now and the rest of the cable goes from one headphone to another without the added expense of buying more of the length beside the Y. Great concept and I look forward to using it on the LC.


----------



## MattTCG

warrenpchi said:


> My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.


 
 Amen...+1


----------



## BucketInABucket

aamefford said:


> I have not heard the pairing.  I have heard both components in meet setting.  I think they would be fine together.  The Gamma2 is a nice dac.


 
 Das good, thanks for input. Now all I need to do is re-terminate my headphones with a 4-pin XLR. I would like to know whether that TRS plug on the front is 3.5mm or 6.3mm though? I can't really tell from the photos doh


----------



## Stillhart

bucketinabucket said:


> Das good, thanks for input. Now all I need to do is re-terminate my headphones with a 4-pin XLR. I would like to know whether that TRS plug on the front is 3.5mm or 6.3mm though? I can't really tell from the photos doh


 
  
 The front one is 6.3mm.  The back one is 3.5mm.


----------



## Evshrug

Did we just review reviewers of reviews?

I might give advice (specific song moments highlight a strength/weakness give the reader something to latch on to, find someone you trust to give an emotionally neutral analysis of writing can sharpen writing clarity and check if people understand the message you're trying to give), but I don't aim to make people feel bad.

Aaaanyway, I'm sure the LC will sound godly if used while watching "Hercules in New York"


----------



## bearFNF

evshrug said:


> Did we just review reviewers of reviews?


 
 I _THINK_ we just reviewed the way reviewers of reviews review reviews by reviewers.


----------



## AxelCloris

bearfnf said:


> I _THINK_ we just reviewed the way reviewers of reviews review reviews by reviewers.


 
  
 Let's send this one over to the desk for review.


----------



## doctorjazz

1+ on it not being at all easy to write a review...having done number (mostly cds, a few of gear), and owing some at present, I agree it is very time consuming and takes lots of concentration and focus making observations and comparisons, AND then you'd like it to be interesting and enjoyable to read. I'm grateful to those who do make the effort to give us a reference for things we might not easily be able to try out. I may not agree with every point of a review...that's where the comparisons come in, not so much that it be gear I own (though that would be a bonus), but to get a sense of the preferences of the reviewer, compare them to mine, helps better to put the review in context. (a commentary on the review of the reviewers of the review, whew!).


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

bearfnf said:


> I _THINK_ we just reviewed the way reviewers of reviews review reviews by reviewers.


----------



## gr8soundz

warrenpchi said:


> My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.


 
 +2


----------



## bflat

Back to the question of heat - I originally wanted to put the LC right on top of my Gungnir on the left side where all the transformers are. Well, my laser thermometer read 110 deg F on the case surface so imho, that's too hot. But I think I will just print out some 1 inch tall rails and that should be fine since I have good airflow around my components.


----------



## Poimandres

With the Internet age anyone can become a reviewer! I'm certain at some point most people at head-fi have been. It's nice to see a lot of different viewpoints whether you agree with them or not.


----------



## mandrake50

warrenpchi said:


> My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.


 

 Why don't you get it... it is all about *ME. If I don't get what I want...* the world sucks! And it is so easy on forums to display this attitude...


----------



## warrenpchi

mandrake50 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.
> ...


 

 Sadly, yes.


----------



## Poimandres

Seen plenty of attitudes worse than that for sure. Yours is like a breathe of fresh air.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

mandrake50 said:


> Why don't you get it... it is all about *ME. If I don't get what I want...* the world sucks! And it is so easy on forums to display this attitude...


----------



## sahmen

subbed


----------



## immtbiker




----------



## Stillhart

IT'S!!!!!!


----------



## mandrake50

buttuglyjeff said:


>


 
  I guess I am from a different era....
 No instant gratification,,, and WE/you  is right up there with ME.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Oh crap, now I want to binge on Monty Python. 
 Life of Brian anyone?


----------



## DigitalFreak

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Bah, was hoping for UERM listening impressions in part II


 
 Patience my brother from another mother. Rome wasn't built in a day after all


----------



## mscott58

digitalfreak said:


> Oh crap, now I want to binge on Monty Python.
> Life of Brian anyone?


 
_I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called Biggus_...
  
_And he has a wife you know..._
  
 Don't get me started on Python. 
  
 And +1000 on the effort it takes for reviews. I'd estimate mine take about, well let's just say they take a lot of time! 
  
 C


----------



## mscott58

digitalfreak said:


> Patience my brother from another mother. Rome wasn't built in a day after all


 
 DF - Sweet tie-in!


----------



## DigitalFreak

mscott58 said:


> DF - Sweet tie-in!


 
 Meh, I try.


----------



## ying

Can't wait to hear if it drives iems well!!!!! Thanks for the review!!!!!!!!!


----------



## joeexp

warrenpchi said:


> My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.


 

 That's like asking someone who criticises a DAC to be able to build a better one. What is it with censorship in this forum. One is not allowed to have an opinion anymore??
 +1 And yes I didn't like the Headphone.guru review of the LC either.  Nothing personal, just not very useful. YMMV ...


----------



## warrenpchi

joeexp said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > My only request, for those that criticize reviews or reviewers, is that they take the time to try writing a review of their own.  It's not always as easy, or as fun, as it seems.
> ...


 
  
 I would disagree, especially with respect to degree of difficulty.  There is a significant learning curve, for most people, to designing a DAC.  Reviewing an amp is far easier.
  


joeexp said:


> What is it with censorship in this forum.


 
  
 What censorship?  Nothing was edited or removed, I simply articulated my view.  To quote you:
  


joeexp said:


> One is not allowed to have an opinion anymore??


----------



## gr8soundz

joeexp said:


> That's like asking someone who criticises a DAC to be able to build a better one. What is it with censorship in this forum. One is not allowed to have an opinion anymore??
> +1 And yes I didn't like the Headphone.guru review of the LC either.  Nothing personal, just not very useful. YMMV ...


 
  
 The LC review isn't even done yet!
  
 Being critical of a DAC that costs money is different from reading a FREE review. Nothing wrong with opinions here unless they're unnecessarily negative. Some of us take issue with that because of the work that goes into reviews designed to be shared freely. Why should we care if the content isn't useful to you?
  
 Easy to criticize someone else's hard work when it'd be better to say nothing at all if their work isn't for you. At worst, that should motivate you to write a better one (if you can).
  
 Can't WAIT to read one of your reviews and see how you react to others' feedback.........


----------



## Poimandres

This thread de railed sometime ago. Any chance of getting back on track?

Did I hear that the LC will have Laser etched lettering? For some reason I thought that it wasn't going to be initially. Is the lettering black? *crosses fingers*


----------



## Jeff Y

Review part 3 on Headphone.guru is out. I think.


----------



## ejong7

Second the protective pouch idea. Could be useful.


----------



## Jeff Y

ejong7 said:


> Second the protective pouch idea. Could be useful.


 
 I think it's worth it to get a gun case with foam inside.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jeff y said:


> I think it's worth it to get a gun case with foam inside.


 
  
 Or a Pelican Case...


----------



## Jeff Y

buttuglyjeff said:


> Or a Pelican Case...


 
 Would be great but it seems too expensive compared to many nice handgun cases out there. YMMV


----------



## DVass13

You can find some pretty good Pelican case knockoffs on monoprice. I bought one for my HD800s and it works quite well. It's basically the same as the Audeze travel case and only cost me $20 after a discount. I'm sure something like this would be perfect for the LC.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jeff y said:


> Would be great but it seems too expensive compared to many nice handgun cases out there. YMMV


 
  
 I think Monoprice is selling this style case too...
  
_Woopsie, someone beat me to that..._


----------



## Jeff Y

dvass13 said:


> You can find some pretty good Pelican case knockoffs on monoprice. I bought one for my HD800s and it works quite well. It's basically the same as the Audeze travel case and only cost me $20 after a discount. I'm sure something like this would be perfect for the LC.


 
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> I think Monoprice is selling this style case too...
> 
> _Woopsie, someone beat me to that..._


 
 Great to know. I was in need of a couple. Thank you!


----------



## DigitalFreak

Part III is now officially live
  
 http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-iii/


----------



## immtbiker

These HPRC cases are perfect for a "transportable amp" such as the Carbon. They come in various sizes in case you want to add things, and come with the pluck foam, so by using toothpicks
 as a template around the amp, you can make a perfect, safe fit for around $50!
  
 http://www.amazon.com/HPRC-2200F-Hard-Cubed-Black/dp/B004B8VLOG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_421_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=01GJSZNPZBV2Q3EF2V8X


----------



## MattTCG

Would that case also hold a headphone like the ether?


----------



## DecentLevi

Personally I have found that headphones in general are durable enough to just throw in a backpack or suitcase on top of of your clothes or maybe inside a 1-gallon plastic ziploc bag and be just fine - don't think there's room in that briefcase for it. BTW that case above shows to be 2.4 lbs, which is almost double the weight of the LC itself


----------



## Joeybgood

stillhart said:


> IT'S!!!!!!


 
 Now for something completely different.. a man with three buttocks!!


----------



## Stillhart

Well now that the guru article(s) is finally finished being published, I'm happy to try and answer any unanswered questions on the LC that folks may have.
  
 One thing I'd like to point out that wasn't touched on in the review:  The phase splitter for the SE input is an amazing thing!  I know Alex talked about it a little bit, but nobody really remarked on it.  So let me give you my experience with it.
  
 I plugged in my Theta Basic II DAC via both SE and Balanced.  I pressed the button on the front of the unit to swap between inputs.  I heard no difference.  Literally, *no difference*.  This means that all the agonizing people have been doing over finding a perfect balanced DAC has been somewhat moot.  
  
 I said before that an excellent SE DAC will sound better than a just okay Balanced DAC.  Now that I know that there's no difference between the two with this amp, that point is even more relevant.  I hope this helps some folks in their search for a matching DAC.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Well now that the guru article(s) is finally finished being published, I'm happy to try and answer any unanswered questions on the LC that folks may have.
> 
> One thing I'd like to point out that wasn't touched on in the review:  The phase splitter for the SE input is an amazing thing!  I know Alex talked about it a little bit, but nobody really remarked on it.  So let me give you my experience with it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 THANK YOU! I was wondering how a balanced vs. SE a/b comparison would sound.
  
 You may have just saved me 100s by not getting a balanced DAC. I can focus on making sure I've got the best DAC possible. I think the iDSD Micro is it.


----------



## DigitalFreak

gr8soundz said:


> THANK YOU! I was wondering how a balanced vs. SE a/b comparison would sound.
> 
> You may have just saved me 100s by not getting a balanced DAC. I can focus on making sure I've got the best DAC possible. I think the iDSD Micro is it.




Good man, be sure to post tons of cool pics once you got the system together.


----------



## adobotj

digitalfreak said:


> Part III is now officially live
> 
> http://headphone.guru/the-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-part-iii/


 
  
 Wow... Kudos DFreak! that was an excellent review!!! I can't wait to hear it


----------



## coastal1

Any recommendations on a balanced cable for the HD650?  Thinking about spending $100-$150 but that's just a rough initial idea.  If something like these for $60 on ebay from Venus Audio will sound great all the better.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEISER-HEADPHONE-CABLE-HD600-HD650-MOGAMI-CARDAS-NEUTRIK-1-4-or-BALANCED-/171649354489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7194af9
  
 Or if anyone swears by the official Sennheiser balanced cable please let me know as it's $200 on music direct.  That's less expensive than it often is, but still seems a little much as I got the HPs brand new on Amazon for $300 w/ free shipping.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> Well now that the guru article(s) is finally finished being published, I'm happy to try and answer any unanswered questions on the LC that folks may have.
> 
> One thing I'd like to point out that wasn't touched on in the review:  The phase splitter for the SE input is an amazing thing!  I know Alex talked about it a little bit, but nobody really remarked on it.  So let me give you my experience with it.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks @Stillhart - this confirms my suspicion that I shouldn't get my panties in a bunch (I don't actrually wear panties, as far as anyone knows....) over using an SE Dac instead of a balanced one.  I really like the Dac-19 for now, and that is my planned source for the LC.  I just wish I couldn't fit 6 or 8 Liquid Carbons inside the Dac-19 box.  I was hoping for something a bit more svelt.....  Oh well, I also have a decent little D-S balanced out Dac that is much more compact for transportable use.  I just need to decide what I can sell without remorse, so I can complete the rig with the Mr. Speakers Ether.....  Anyone wanna buy my stuff?


----------



## Dyin

coastal1 said:


> Any recommendations on a balanced cable for the HD650?  Thinking about spending $100-$150 but that's just a rough initial idea.  If something like these for $60 on ebay from Venus Audio will sound great all the better.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEISER-HEADPHONE-CABLE-HD600-HD650-MOGAMI-CARDAS-NEUTRIK-1-4-or-BALANCED-/171649354489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7194af9
> 
> Or if anyone swears by the official Sennheiser balanced cable please let me know as it's $200 on music direct.  That's less expensive than it often is, but still seems a little much as I got the HPs brand new on Amazon for $300 w/ free shipping.


 
  
 Check out pages 140 and 141. I asked this question previously for my hd600's and got a lot of good responses. As for the Sennheiser branded ones, they are quite overpriced.


----------



## coastal1

dyin said:


>


 
 Thanks


----------



## DVass13

Do yourself a favor and check these out:
  
 http://smile.amazon.com/Replacement-Cable-SENNHEISER-Headphones-HD650/dp/B0028PGXRE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1437760563&sr=8-2&keywords=sennheiser+replacement+cable
  
 http://www.markertek.com/product/nc4fxx-b/neutrik-nc4fxx-b-4-pin-female-xlr-cable-end-black-shell-gold-contacts
  
 For under $30 you can make your own balanced cable. I did this myself with the HD600s I sold a few months ago and it worked perfectly. And if you don't have a soldering iron, you can pick up this: http://smile.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-Soldering-Plato-170/dp/B00WN3AD7C/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1437760727&sr=8-8&keywords=hakko
  
 and you will still end up breaking even.
  
  


coastal1 said:


> Any recommendations on a balanced cable for the HD650?  Thinking about spending $100-$150 but that's just a rough initial idea.  If something like these for $60 on ebay from Venus Audio will sound great all the better.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-SENNHEISER-HEADPHONE-CABLE-HD600-HD650-MOGAMI-CARDAS-NEUTRIK-1-4-or-BALANCED-/171649354489?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f7194af9
> 
> Or if anyone swears by the official Sennheiser balanced cable please let me know as it's $200 on music direct.  That's less expensive than it often is, but still seems a little much as I got the HPs brand new on Amazon for $300 w/ free shipping.


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> Thanks @Stillhart - this confirms my suspicion that I shouldn't get my panties in a bunch (I don't actrually wear panties, as far as anyone knows....) over using an SE Dac instead of a balanced one.  I really like the Dac-19 for now, and that is my planned source for the LC.  I just wish I couldn't fit 6 or 8 Liquid Carbons inside the Dac-19 box.  I was hoping for something a bit more svelt.....  Oh well, I also have a decent little D-S balanced out Dac that is much more compact for transportable use.  I just need to decide what I can sell without remorse, so I can complete the rig with the Mr. Speakers Ether.....  Anyone wanna buy my stuff?


 
  
 Well you know I love my DAC-19.  I think it's a great choice; if size isn't a priority for you, it's pretty much my #1 recommendation for a DAC under $1000 right now.


----------



## immtbiker

matttcg said:


> Would that case also hold a headphone like the ether?


 

 The dimensions are approx. 9 X 10 x 7 deep and the LC dimensions are approx. 5 X 7 X 1.75 deep, so you would probably needs to the next size case up (they have a multitude of sizes).
  
 If you meant a case _just _for the Ethers, then you should go with their case 2 sizes down for less money.


----------



## coastal1

dyin said:


>


 
 What did you end up going with?


----------



## Dyin

coastal1 said:


> What did you end up going with?


 
 I'm going to build my own cable.


----------



## ying

stillhart said:


> Well now that the guru article(s) is finally finished being published, I'm happy to try and answer any unanswered questions on the LC that folks may have.
> 
> One thing I'd like to point out that wasn't touched on in the review:  The phase splitter for the SE input is an amazing thing!  I know Alex talked about it a little bit, but nobody really remarked on it.  So let me give you my experience with it.
> 
> ...


 
 Man I was driving myself crazy from this SE and Balance topic. You have save me from mentally breaking down!!!!!!!


----------



## aamefford

ying said:


> Man I was driving myself crazy from this SE and Balance topic. You have save me from mentally breaking down!!!!!!!


 
 I'll add on some anecdotal info - I am using an SE dac (Audio-GD Dac-19) into my Oppo HA-1 anolog input, and listening balanced out.  It sounds excellent.  Don't sweat it.  Pick a nice dac, and plug into the appropriate input on the Liquid Carbon.  It's gonna sound as well as your dac.


----------



## DecentLevi

@Stillhart, while I respect your findings that the balanced connection yields identical sound to RCA connection from a DAC to the LC amp, I can't help but wonder if that may be dependent on the DAC. I mean, some DACs may have a better balanced implementation and others may have a better RCA output. So I wonder if it may still be worth it to try balanced out of my DAC (Gustard X12) just in case with my DAC it may actually give better performance this way.


----------



## Stillhart

decentlevi said:


> @Stillhart, while I respect your findings that the balanced connection yields identical sound to RCA connection from a DAC to the LC amp, I can't help but wonder if that may be dependent on the DAC. I mean, some DACs may have a better balanced implementation and others may have a better RCA output. So I wonder if it may still be worth it to try balanced out of my DAC (Gustard X12) just in case with my DAC it may actually give better performance this way.


 
  
 If you already have a balanced DAC, just use whichever sounds best to you.  By all means, listen to both and make your own conclusion if you have that luxury.
  
 My findings were more targeted at the folks who were looking to buy a new DAC just to get something that's balanced.  Or folks looking to buy a transportable DAC to match their transportable amp, but were having trouble finding one that's balanced in the price range.  Etc.


----------



## gr8soundz

decentlevi said:


> @Stillhart, while I respect your findings that the balanced connection yields identical sound to RCA connection from a DAC to the LC amp, I can't help but wonder if that may be dependent on the DAC. I mean, some DACs may have a better balanced implementation and others may have a better RCA output. So I wonder if it may still be worth it to try balanced out of my DAC (Gustard X12) just in case with my DAC it may actually give better performance this way.


 
  
 Please do so. If it confirms Stillhart's findings or if you can hear a difference we would like to know.
  
 The LC is almost here. Time for speculation is over.


----------



## warrenpchi

decentlevi said:


> @Stillhart, while I respect your findings that the balanced connection yields identical sound to RCA connection from a DAC to the LC amp, I can't help but wonder if that may be dependent on the DAC.


 
  
 Ooh, the plot thickens!


----------



## DecentLevi

So I got a responce back on another thread:

 "_I do have both gustard x12 and h10, and tried both types of connections, and both of the interconnects are 6N OCC, I have been using RCA cables before my XLR cables arrive and after I switch the cables, I do feel an immediate change, soundstage expansion and frequencies extensions are better. and the most obvious change is the volume, since unbalance gives 2.5Vrms and balance gives 5Vrms, YMMV_





"
  
 I have my LC amp on pre-order, and an X12 DAC that has both SE and balanced outputs. I would be happy to compare both output types into my LC once I get it next month, and report back so you can have a 2nd opinion to see if SE vs. balanced makes any difference on another DAC. Does anybody have any recommendations on a cheap and good balanced cable to go between these? Or if you're feeling generous enough to loan me one, then please send me a PM. Thanks.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Guys seriously, concentrate on a good sounding DAC first and it being balanced second.


----------



## Stillhart

decentlevi said:


> So I got a responce back on another thread:
> 
> "_I do have both gustard x12 and h10, and tried both types of connections, and both of the interconnects are 6N OCC, I have been using RCA cables before my XLR cables arrive and after I switch the cables, I do feel an immediate change, soundstage expansion and frequencies extensions are better. and the most obvious change is the volume, since unbalance gives 2.5Vrms and balance gives 5Vrms, YMMV_
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those are the changes I experience with my other amp, but the LC uses tech to make that not happen.  You might scroll back a few pages to find Dr. Cavalli's explanation of the phase splitter tech that does this. EDIT - Here it is.
  
 I get all my cables from Monoprice, including my balanced cables.  I believe these are the ones I bought:
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=601602&seq=1&format=2
  
 might have been this one tho...
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4749&seq=1&format=2


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello yes I read the description of the phase splitter, but am just wanting to test which connection SE or balanced works better out of my DAC, because IIRC some DACs are said to have a better output section one or the other. I've ordered the 1.5 feet cables too, thanks


----------



## voicemaster

End of August can't come soon enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Waiting to pair my LC with my He1K.


----------



## doctorjazz

voicemaster said:


> End of August can't come soon enough  . Waiting to pair my LC with my He1K.




Same here, though I'm enjoying the HEK in the interim.


----------



## voicemaster

I also enjoying mine with my magni/modi2 stack.


----------



## Pirakaphile

voicemaster said:


> I also enjoying mine with my magni/modi2 stack.


 
 I'm enjoying Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong on my M&M. I'm always reminded that the equipment is secondary when I listen to music. Sure, 'spensive cans and amps and DACs are all good when you can afford them, but sometimes it's good to just sit back and chill to some swingin' slow tunes regardless of what's making it. 
 Besides, it keeps me sane during the wait.


----------



## immtbiker

Nice coincidence…I was just listening to their "Moonlight In Vermont" this morning. My wife and son were hearing it via "second hand smoke" leaking from the 1000's! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hey….We need a HE1000 smiley now.


----------



## AxelCloris

immtbiker said:


> Nice coincidence…I was just listening to their "Moonlight In Vermont" this morning. My wife and son were hearing it via "second hand smoke" leaking from the 1000's!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll take an Ether smiley!


----------



## doctorjazz

pirakaphile said:


> voicemaster said:
> 
> 
> > I also enjoying mine with my magni/modi2 stack.
> ...




When my HEK arrived, I put that EllaLouis album on, put the HEK on my wife's head, and, for maybe the first time, she "got" why I needed those cans..


----------



## Terraformer

Is it true when a headphone amp gets hotter it will reduce its power output and this can affect the volume level of the sound?


----------



## Pirakaphile

terraformer said:


> Is it true when a headphone amp gets hotter it will reduce its power output and this can affect the volume level of the sound?


 
 I'm pretty sure this is a no, especially because most amps run rot, especially class-a amps which are supposed to get pretty darn hot.


----------



## MattTCG

Anyone hear the hd800 with the LC?


----------



## longbowbbs

matttcg said:


> Anyone hear the hd800 with the LC?


 
 yes....


----------



## bearFNF

longbowbbs said:


> yes....:evil:



Ditto, I have too.


----------



## aamefford

matttcg said:


> Anyone hear the hd800 with the LC?



No …. HD800 and I don't get along that well.


----------



## doctorjazz

Not me!


----------



## ying

longbowbbs said:


> yes....:evil:




How is it then?


----------



## longbowbbs

ying said:


> longbowbbs said:
> 
> 
> > yes....
> ...


 
 Oh? You wanted feedback?   
  
 All Cavalli amps are very transparent. They will pass on the source without color. I was using a Hugo DAC and my HD800's. It was an excellent combo. Great sense of space and excellent detail.


----------



## olor1n

matttcg said:


> Anyone hear the hd800 with the LC?


 

 It's odd that there's very little feedback on the LC's synergy with the HD800. Most impressions are with planars. The H800 is not a rare bird. It's the ubiquitous, ToTL dynamic headphone and perhaps the ultimate (sq) test for an amp like the LC.
  
 I'm sure you've already placed an order for the LC (as I have) and we'll soon hear for ourselves how the LC measures up. There must be others who are still on the fence though, seeking more detailed impressions on this pairing.


----------



## pieman3141

This is something I'd like to know about too. From a purely signature POV, they seem alright. I've got the K712s and the review on h.guru made it seem like it was a good pairing. The K712s aren't really THAT hard to drive though, even if there's some weird shenanigans going on that make it require more power than on paper.


----------



## immtbiker

olor1n said:


> It's odd that there's very little feedback on the LC's synergy with the HD800. Most impressions are with planars. The H800 is not a rare bird. It's the ubiquitous, ToTL dynamic headphone and perhaps the ultimate (sq) test for an amp like the LC.
> 
> I'm sure you've already placed an order for the LC (as I have) and we'll soon hear for ourselves how the LC measures up. There must be others who are still on the fence though, seeking more detailed impressions on this pairing.


 

 This is probably because they haven't been released as of yet, and the only headphones used, are the ones that Alex has had at his table at the past meets with the prototype.
  
 There has been so much talk about this amp, it almost _feels _as if it's been available for a long time.


----------



## doctorjazz

Now, I may be wrong here, but has ANYONE read a post about a headphone that DIDN'T do well with the LC? I can't recall any myself, but could have missed something...


----------



## runeight

terraformer said:


> Is it true when a headphone amp gets hotter it will reduce its power output and this can affect the volume level of the sound?


 
  
 In general no for a properly designed amp and power supply. However, at some temperature (different for different amps depending on devices used and topology) the devices may stop working properly. Then bad things can happen.


----------



## runeight

immtbiker said:


> This is probably because they haven't been released as of yet, and the only headphones used, are the ones that Alex has had at his table at the past meets with the prototype.
> 
> There has been so much talk about this amp, it almost _feels _as if it's been available for a long time.


 
  
 You know, I have HD800s and they were in SF at the recent meet. They were on the table and available, but  not many people plugged them in. Although a few did.


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> Now, I may be wrong here, but has ANYONE read a post about a headphone that DIDN'T do well with the LC? I can't recall any myself, but could have missed something...


 
  
 SR-009.
  


> Originally Posted by *runeight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Then bad things can happen.


 
  
 Sound like me when I get too hot.


----------



## Evshrug

Stax? Whoo boy, you just raised my temps, think I'm gonna faint!

But seriously, the vintage Stax I have really do hold a kind of magic, but I don't use them often because of on-ear comfort (it's an on-ear) over long sessions and their PITA amping requirements.


----------



## Stormcrow

Hey, can someone please list the different cables i'll need to purchase now that I ordered the LC? I have no experience with the "balanced" part of amps. It will be connected to a schiit Modi 2U and to Sens 650HD, Hifiman he-400i. Thnx


----------



## slambanna

stormcrow said:


> Hey, can someone please list the different cables i'll need to purchase now that I ordered the LC? I have no experience with the "balanced" part of amps. It will be connected to a schiit Modi 2U and to Sens 650HD, Hifiman he-400i. Thnx


 
 Well of course you don't "need" balanced cables to use this amp.  You will just run standard RCA (phono) interconnects from your Modi to the LC.  The RCA's are single ended, but the LC converts the signal for use with the Balanced headphone outs.  The two balanced outs are the common 4-pin XLR or the less common but more compact RSA (AKA kobiconn).
  
 If you feel that you "need" to go balanced, then I would recommend looking at cables for each headphone that terminate into a 4-pin XLR.  Although considering the price of ordering those cables I would look into making your own.


----------



## zaintachik

I just got balanced cables from Custom Cans from UK and power cables Main cables r us. Well now, it's just looking at them for the next 1 month or so. It is coming to August isn't it?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-low-capacitance-Sennheiser-HD700-Balanced-4pin-XLR-litz-cable-/141706685830?
  
 http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/mains-cables-/143-the-audio-asylum-mains-power-cord.html


----------



## DecentLevi

Yeah that's right. There is definitely no balanced connection option from the Modi. I'm sure your connection to LC amp via RCA cables will sound just fine. However do consider getting balanced cables for your headphones for use with the LC. Dr. Cavalli hesitated when I plugged my headphones into the SE output of this amp, saying that I'd get a lot more performance out of balanced connection to headphones.
  
 I do think however that the person above wants to know what a balanced cable is in the first place. I'm not that good at explaining it, so I'll throw in a couple diagrams to help make some sense of it:
  
​  ​ There are two general types of balanced cables: for headphone interconnects, and for amp/preamp/DAC interconnects. ​ Headphone unbalanced (SE) vs. balanced headphone cables:​ ​ Unbalanced (RCA) versus balanced interconnect cables ('XLR' if I recall correctly):​ ​  
* you need 2 balanced interconnect cables for stereo​  
  
 ​  
 ​  
 ​


----------



## DecentLevi

Also a little heads up folks - I read the LC amp does not include a power chord, so ...don't put this on me but you're gonna have to find one first (Like me I just got a thicker one that should give a more 'sound' connection)


----------



## adobotj

Hey guys i need your help. I'm planning to get a TEAC UD-301 DAC to pair up with the LC. Not only for the bal-to-bal connection but more importantly because the UD-301 plays DSD files, natively. This would be my very first desktop SS setup.
  
 My question is, will a *XLR pin male to female shielded mic microphone cable cord *as interconnect between UD-301 and LC suffice? They're on sale at ebay for only $8.39. Here is the pic...
  

  
 Back of the TEAC UD-301

 Back of the Liquid Carbon


----------



## goldendarko

Yeah they'll work. Good price too.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm sure those would work, but if I were you I would get something closer to 1.5 feet so I don't have a whole lotta extra cable slinging around and a shorter signal path


----------



## adobotj

Whew! Thanks guys! Now I'm sure  august is near!!! I'm so excited!


----------



## elwappo99

decentlevi said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yup, good info, with pictures!  I think where most people get confused (and rightfully so) is that "balanced" for headphones means something different than "balanced" in the bigger audio realm. Balanced in the audio realm means the interconnect is shielded. Maybe Dr. Cavalli can weight in on the change in using an RCA or XLR interconnect over short runs, but in pro audio microphone snakes can run 50 ft over lots of other cables, so it's important to shield them so they don't pick up unwanted noise.
  
  
 If anyone is looking for cheap, monoprice offers great XLRs cables on the cheap. I think they're having a sitewide sale atm, which is kind of unusual.


----------



## runeight

elwappo99 said:


> Yup, good info, with pictures!  I think where most people get confused (and rightfully so) is that "balanced" for headphones means something different than "balanced" in the bigger audio realm. Balanced in the audio realm means the interconnect is shielded. Maybe Dr. Cavalli can weight in on the change in using an RCA or XLR interconnect over short runs, but in pro audio microphone snakes can run 50 ft over lots of other cables, so it's important to shield them so they don't pick up unwanted noise.
> 
> 
> If anyone is looking for cheap, monoprice offers great XLRs cables on the cheap. I think they're having a sitewide sale atm, which is kind of unusual.


 
  
 Maybe I can help a little. We did talk about this oh about 1000 posts back. 
  
 Signaling and shielding are really two totally separate things.
  
 For a balanced signal only the two +/- signal lines really matter. In a perfect world it would not even be necessary to shield long runs of these wires in nearly all practical audio situations.
  
 In an imperfect world, especially with very low level signals, shielding is at least some insurance against noise introduction along the balanced pairs because the entire system does not perfectly cancel noise or because noise can be introduced asymmetrically.
  
 The other reason for the shield, as we discussed, is to establish ground relationships among the devices being connected because more often than not these devices force a ground relationship on the signal lines in some way.
  
 Of course, for an SE signal with only one signal line varying with respect to a reference (usually ground) shielding is essential and is part of the ground line in the cable.
  
 For interconnects between DAC and amp shielding in either case should be there.
  
 For headphone connections, because the signal levels are high and headphones generally not sensitive with no gain, shielding is not usually necessary. The 4 pin balanced out from an amp can go to the headphones without shielding.


----------



## mandrake50

decentlevi said:


> @Stillhart, while I respect your findings that the balanced connection yields identical sound to RCA connection from a DAC to the LC amp, I can't help but wonder if that may be dependent on the DAC. I mean, some DACs may have a better balanced implementation and others may have a better RCA output. So I wonder if it may still be worth it to try balanced out of my DAC (Gustard X12) just in case with my DAC it may actually give better performance this way.


 

 Try it both ways. You really need to settle it for yourself with your equipment. Monoprice has decent balanced cable to connect from you DAC to Amp.


----------



## Stillhart

stormcrow said:


> Hey, can someone please list the different cables i'll need to purchase now that I ordered the LC? I have no experience with the "balanced" part of amps. It will be connected to a schiit Modi 2U and to Sens 650HD, Hifiman he-400i. Thnx


 
  
  


slambanna said:


> Well of course you don't "need" balanced cables to use this amp.  You will just run standard RCA (phono) interconnects from your Modi to the LC.  The RCA's are single ended, but the LC converts the signal for use with the Balanced headphone outs.  The two balanced outs are the common 4-pin XLR or the less common but more compact RSA (AKA kobiconn).
> 
> If you feel that you "need" to go balanced, then I would recommend looking at cables for each headphone that terminate into a 4-pin XLR.  Although considering the price of ordering those cables I would look into making your own.


 
  
 Don't forget that the LC doesn't come with a power cord.


----------



## sujitsky

Will this power cord work with the LC? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5290&seq=1&format=2
  
 any other recommendations?
  
 A related question: I am currently based in the US but moving to EU in October. can I buy a US power cable and use it simply with a plug adapter in EU? (given that the LC supports 85-270 volts) or would it make more sense to buy a new cable?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Poimandres

Any pc power cable that is properly terminated will work. You will of course need to ensure you have the right cord for your country.


----------



## jamato8

sujitsky said:


> Will this power cord work with the LC? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5290&seq=1&format=2
> 
> any other recommendations?
> 
> ...


 

 You could buy one of the 500 dollar ones. Well that would be as much as the amp. :^) 
  
 I do have one I made of hyper pure silver. 12 gauge flat silver of a special design with a grounded central core but that would be over the top and prohibitively expensive now days. Power cords are simple beasts. Having moved all over the world, I just use adapters myself.


----------



## ying

jamato8 said:


> You could buy one of the 500 dollar ones. Well that would be as much as the amp. :^)
> 
> I do have one I made of hyper pure silver. 12 gauge flat silver of a special design with a grounded central core but that would be over the top and prohibitively expensive now days. Power cords are simple beasts. Having moved all over the world, I just use adapters myself.




So I see a lot of people buying cables from monoprice, they look like pretty sturdy cables etc. I am always curious the differences form a $500 xlr interconnect and power cord from the monoprice cords. I never think a power cord would matter too much for audio, but interconnects transfers analog signal ( correct me if I am wrong ) and should make a difference? 

Ps. I tried upgraded headphones cables from furutech and it sounded different from oem cables that came with the headphones.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

ying said:


> So I see a lot of people buying cables from monoprice, they look like pretty sturdy cables etc. I am always curious the differences form a $500 xlr interconnect and power cord from the monoprice cords. I never think a power cord would matter too much for audio, but interconnects transfers analog signal ( correct me if I am wrong ) and should make a difference?
> 
> Ps. I tried upgraded headphones cables from furutech and it sounded different from oem cables that came with the headphones.


----------



## mscott58

ying said:


> So I see a lot of people buying cables from monoprice, they look like pretty sturdy cables etc. I am always curious the differences form a $500 xlr interconnect and power cord from the monoprice cords. I never think a power cord would matter too much for audio, but interconnects transfers analog signal ( correct me if I am wrong ) and should make a difference?
> 
> Ps. I tried upgraded headphones cables from furutech and it sounded different from oem cables that came with the headphones.


 
 Yeah, there's a bit of a swamp to wade into, full of scary creatures and lots of different (and strongly contested) opinions. 
  
 My 2cents = try different things and see what you like, and what fits your budget. 
  
 My personal experience (yes, I'm wading into the swamp) = there can be a difference in cables, including (I'm going in deeper!) power cables. My personal favorites are the Cardas line, and I use their Golden Reference as my, well, my reference. And no, I've never bought them new, so have saved big $ that way. And also I've spent much more on them than some people would say is smart/wise/sane/whatever. However, I heard a difference, and it made me happy, so that's where I went. I have a set of Golden Reference XLR's awaiting my Cavalli LC, to be paired with my Geek Pulse X Infinity. 
  
 Also in terms of headphone cables I personally like the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3's and that's what I run my LCD-3's off of. In terms of IEM cables I'm a big fan of ALO Audio - that's what my K10's run. 
  
 To each their own, and hopefully I won't get flamed too badly for sharing my opinion. 
  
 Cheers and happy listening


----------



## Poimandres

It's about to get hot in here!!!!!

Seriously, I say whatever makes you happy. If it's about the aesthetics or build quality go for it.


----------



## jamato8

ying said:


> So I see a lot of people buying cables from monoprice, they look like pretty sturdy cables etc. I am always curious the differences form a $500 xlr interconnect and power cord from the monoprice cords. I never think a power cord would matter too much for audio, but interconnects transfers analog signal ( correct me if I am wrong ) and should make a difference?
> 
> Ps. I tried upgraded headphones cables from furutech and it sounded different from oem cables that came with the headphones.


 

 For some it opens up a can of worms, for others, they are convinced that some designs add to the quality of the sound. It can start a bunch of posts and counter posts as to what is heard or not heard. For myself, in comparing what might be a stock cable to an after market, I have heard benefits with some and not with others. You are are dealing with the electron flow and to deny that all material react the same to this and think that they will be treated the same by all materials seems to lack an understand of what is going on. But in the end, it works out best to figure out what you are after and if you are already satisfied with what you hear. The used market is a good place to start and it hurts less.


----------



## gr8soundz

I confirmed for myself that better cables (headphone, rca, usb) can make a difference.
  
 However, if you spend $500 on a cable (bringing the cost with the LC to $1100), would you get as much improvement as you would buying a $1100 (or more expensive) amp?
  
 At some point, imo, its more beneficial (if better sound is the goal) to spend that money on a better component. Got a feeling some might have spent enough overall to have gotten a Liquid Gold by now.


----------



## Poimandres

I posted this in the other thread, some here may be interested. 

Audio advisor has the Pangea 14se MKII cables on sale. You can get a 1.5 meter cable for 65. 75% off IIRC.

The Pangea uses the Cardas Grade One Copper

They also have the black mamba II rca cables on sale, should anyone be interested.


----------



## sahmen

Okay, personally, I have no doubt when it comes to the question as to whether aftermarket cables might bring some audible enhancements to the table that headphone manufacturer's stock cable might not have. I have verified that for myself on more than one occasion, and I always keep the originals in order to remind myself of the sq differences I have paid for, should any doubts arise.
  
 However, the confusion does not end there : it would help if some standards could be consensually agreed upon, but the "cables" market is perhaps so plagued by controversy and charlatanism that it seems to generate only extreme opposing ideas.  Here is one basic questions for those who believe cables can make significant audible differences:
  
 Between the usual labels which aftermarket cable makers usually assign to their products -- Cardas, furutech, Oyaide, Canare, Mogami, or pure silver etc. etc-- is there some consensus about the merits of each, or about which one performs best?  I think it would be helpful to know since this is probably one of the last places on the planet where you would always want to take the word of the manufacturers as "gospel."
  
 Is there some objective ways in which one might weigh the merits of each brand name or model of aftermarket cable as described by their makers?  The philosophy according to which one must always "try them for oneself" does not always work well here, since there are many customers who cannot "try the cables," without buying them first, and since many of the cable manufacturers either do not accept returns or impose a "re-stocking fee" for them.  It would be nice to have some reliable ideas about the performance credentials of the cable one is getting before making any such purchase


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Ah headphone utopia......
  
 Cables are a very, very complex cocktail of strand count and thickness, material type, purity, resistance properties, insulation, etc.
  
 And that's only if you're a believer.  Then add to the complex mix of going with one of a dozen balanced terminations versus single ended.
  
 Then add to that, that every headphone responds differently to every variety of said cable combinations.


----------



## Poimandres

Well as with most anything on head fi the benefits are quite subjective. The benefits that one person see may differ from that of another. 

If you are happy with your purchase for whatever reason then enjoy it. Your opinion is the only one that matters.


----------



## richard51

buttuglyjeff said:


> Ah headphone utopia......
> 
> Cables are a very, very complex cocktail of strand count and thickness, material type, purity, resistance properties, insulation, etc.
> 
> ...


 

 exactly, and well said......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i had experience with only 5 cables...... NONE sound the same for me


----------



## mscott58

sahmen said:


> Okay, personally, I have no doubt when it comes to the question as to whether aftermarket cables might bring some audible enhancements to the table that headphone manufacturer's stock cable might not have. I have verified that for myself on more than one occasion, and I always keep the originals in order to remind myself of the sq differences I have paid for, should any doubts arise.
> 
> However, the confusion does not end there : it would help if some standards could be consensually agreed upon, but the "cables" market is perhaps so plagued by controversy and charlatanism that it seems to generate only extreme opposing ideas.  Here is one basic questions for those who believe cables can make significant audible differences:
> 
> ...




If you're in the U.S. there's a company called The Cable Company and they have a cable lending library. Check it out. Cheers

PS - The Cardas Golden Reference XLR cables I'm using are from my 2-channel system. Not sure I would pay that much (even used) on IC's to use on the LC if I hadn't already had them.


----------



## gr8soundz

sahmen said:


> Okay, personally, I have no doubt when it comes to the question as to whether aftermarket cables might bring some audible enhancements to the table that headphone manufacturer's stock cable might not have. I have verified that for myself on more than one occasion, and I always keep the originals in order to remind myself of the sq differences I have paid for, should any doubts arise.
> 
> However, the confusion does not end there : it would help if some standards could be consensually agreed upon, but the "cables" market is perhaps so plagued by controversy and charlatanism that it seems to generate only extreme opposing ideas.  Here is one basic questions for those who believe cables can make significant audible differences:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Imo, the only thing you can be certain of (for all brands you mentioned) is they sound better than most any stock cable.
  
 Equipment manufacturers usually include the cheapest cables that work (or that they can get away with). I wish they'd include better cables and save us time searching the aftermarket but, for them, saving $10 per unit can add up. I bet if they did we'd still think the included cables weren't good enough. And unless ALL of us refuse to buy higher priced stuff with cheap cables, they will continue doing so.
  
 Better than stock is still leaves a ton of variables but I think its up to each person to decide how much they're willing to spend on cables and how much better it sounds TO THEM vs another. That could mean infinite amounts of time trying to cover them all but isn't that what we already willingly do with amps, dacs, and headphones?


----------



## Stillhart

You guys better hope Amos doesn't find his way over here...


----------



## runeight

gr8soundz said:


> Imo, the only thing you can be certain of (for all brands you mentioned) is they sound better than most any stock cable.
> 
> Equipment manufacturers usually include the cheapest cables that work (or that they can get away with). I wish they'd include better cables and save us time searching the aftermarket but, for them, saving $10 per unit can add up. I bet if they did we'd still think the included cables weren't good enough. And unless ALL of us refuse to buy higher priced stuff with cheap cables, they will continue doing so.
> 
> Better than stock is still leaves a ton of variables but I think its up to each person to decide how much they're willing to spend on cables and how much better it sounds TO THEM vs another. That could mean infinite amounts of time trying to cover them all but isn't that what we already willingly do with amps, dacs, and headphones?


 
  
 I think this is more or less a no win for the manufacturers as you suggest (just MHO). It doesn't make sense to supply a super expensive cable because it increases the price too much. And even if you include a moderately priced good cable, most folks are going to find their own anyway. Same for power cords. Plus, for cables on a unit like the LC, one would have to supply both balanced and RCA cables to cover the bases. Cables and cords are places where owners can or believe they can influence the sound signature of their systems as a whole. As a manufacturer I think it's best to leave this territory open for people to do that and to enjoy doing that.


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> I think this is more or less a no win for the manufacturers as you suggest (just MHO). It doesn't make sense to supply a super expensive cable because it increases the price too much. And even if you include a moderately priced good cable, most folks are going to find their own anyway. Same for power cords. Plus, for cables on a unit like the LC, one would have to supply both balanced and RCA cables to cover the bases. Cables and cords are places where owners can or believe they can influence the sound signature of their systems as a whole. As a manufacturer I think it's best to leave this territory open for people to do that and to enjoy doing that.



 


Well said Alex!


----------



## ying

poimandres said:


> I posted this in the other thread, some here may be interested.
> 
> Audio advisor has the Pangea 14se MKII cables on sale. You can get a 1.5 meter cable for 65. 75% off IIRC.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the deal notifications!! I just bought the Pangea 14Se MKII, For that price I will gladly pay for it to cure my curiosity. I have no idea if it will sound different than the stock power cables I have but for 50 bucks well worth to even try.
  
 I have tried the Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable, and did not hear any difference from my Fiio stock cable. Other people tell me $1000 usb sound different though.... I would love to try that out!! Cables in my books are always worth the try though, the best if you can borrow them from your friends or a store!! I don't believe in the more it cost the better it is, I have heard $250,000 speaker set up and don't feel like they are worth it. So it really depends haha.


----------



## sahmen

poimandres said:


> I posted this in the other thread, some here may be interested.
> 
> Audio advisor has the Pangea 14se MKII cables on sale. You can get a 1.5 meter cable for 65. 75% off IIRC.
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't mind trying one on the LC, but the page specifically says that this particular cable is suitable for "source components":
  
"Pangea Audio's AC-14SE MkII Signature Edition power cable is specifically designed for source components, which do not require the same large amounts of current as receivers, amps and subs."
  
How significant must one consider this statement to be, if one wants to use the cable on the LC, which is an amp?


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> runeight said:
> 
> 
> > I think this is more or less a no win for the manufacturers as you suggest (just MHO). It doesn't make sense to supply a super expensive cable because it increases the price too much. And even if you include a moderately priced good cable, most folks are going to find their own anyway. Same for power cords. Plus, for cables on a unit like the LC, one would have to supply both balanced and RCA cables to cover the bases. Cables and cords are places where owners can or believe they can influence the sound signature of their systems as a whole. As a manufacturer I think it's best to leave this territory open for people to do that and to enjoy doing that.
> ...


 
  
 Booyakasha!


----------



## ying

sahmen said:


> I wouldn't mind trying one on the LC, but the page specifically says that this particular cable is suitable for "source components":
> 
> "Pangea Audio's AC-14SE MkII Signature Edition power cable is specifically designed for source components, which do not require the same large amounts of current as receivers, amps and subs."
> 
> How significant must one consider this statement to be, if one wants to use the cable on the LC, which is an amp?


 
 Amp is the measurement for current. Usually our houses are wired with 15 amp breaker boxes which means the lowest gauge for cable is a 14 gauge cable. I am pretty sure that the LC does not draw over 15 amps, or your breaker will always trip, unless your wired to a 20 amp breaker box etc. So I am not sure what they mean by the power cable is specifically design for source components. 14 gauge is 14 gauge wire, If they use a 12 gauge or 8 gauge I don't think it will increase the performance of the cables in audio terms. 
  
 I am by no terms an electrical engineer, but I guessing this is just "marketing" 
  
 Haha but anyways my dac wouldn't mind a power cable upgrade, (if it does make a difference) haha


----------



## warrenpchi

Frankly, I'm surprised that no one has posted anything like the following:
  
_"Alex, I love the way the Carbon sounded at [INSERT_SHOW_ATTENDED_HERE].  I was wondering if you could tell me what cables you used so that I can get the same ones.  Thanks"_


----------



## Evshrug

Alex, I would love to hear how the Carbon sounded at CanJam SoCal when you made WarrenPChi and Dan B freak out about how awesome the amp is. I was wondering if you could tell me what cables you used so that I can get the same ones. Thanks.

P.S. [for anyone] Still open to suggestions for best way to wire CIEMs so I can go balanced or SE without wearing down the delicate connector on the CIEM shells.


----------



## ying

warrenpchi said:


> Frankly, I'm surprised that no one has posted anything like the following:
> 
> _"Alex, I love the way the Carbon sounded at [INSERT_SHOW_ATTENDED_HERE].  I was wondering if you could tell me what cables you used so that I can get the same ones.  Thanks"_


 
 oh yahhhhh, well I guess the question is up. Dr. Cavalli what do you recommend??


----------



## xuan87

evshrug said:


> Alex, I would love to hear how the Carbon sounded at CanJam SoCal when you made WarrenPChi and Dan B freak out about how awesome the amp is. I was wondering if you could tell me what cables you used so that I can get the same ones. Thanks.
> 
> P.S. [for anyone] Still open to suggestions for best way to wire CIEMs so I can go balanced or SE without wearing down the delicate connector on the CIEM shells.


 
  
 Well, off the top of my head I can think of 2 ways:
  
 1) Use a balanced cable, and when needed to use SE, just plug in an adapter. Similar to how you switch between 1/4 inch and 3.5mm, and I believe this is how most people do it. Only problem is the additional bulk from the plugs at the adapter. You can also ordered the ultra short adapter from Norne or Plussound for such a purpose.
  
 2) Have the balanced female jack at the Y section, then just swap between balanced cable and a SE cable. The advantage of this over the first method is that the additional weight at the Y section will feel more natural. The disadvantage is that you'll need 2 full length cables rather to just 1 full length cable and 1 small adapter.


----------



## LajostheHun

sahmen said:


> I wouldn't mind trying one on the LC, but the page specifically says that this particular cable is suitable for "source components":
> 
> "Pangea Audio's AC-14SE MkII Signature Edition power cable is specifically designed for source components, which do not require the same large amounts of current as receivers, amps and subs."
> 
> How significant must one consider this statement to be, if one wants to use the cable on the LC, which is an amp?


 
 It's a headphone amp, not a power amp for speakers, which in some cases produces 100's of watts vs a max 1.5w of this amp. Quite frankly any generic power cable will be fine, but if one want's to throw money out the window, I won't be in the way.


----------



## joeexp

xuan87 said:


> Well, off the top of my head I can think of 2 ways:
> 
> 1) Use a balanced cable, and when needed to use SE, just plug in an adapter. Similar to how you switch between 1/4 inch and 3.5mm, and I believe this is how most people do it. Only problem is the additional bulk from the plugs at the adapter. You can also ordered the ultra short adapter from Norne or Plussound for such a purpose.
> 
> 2) Have the balanced female jack at the Y section, then just swap between balanced cable and a SE cable. The advantage of this over the first method is that the additional weight at the Y section will feel more natural. The disadvantage is that you'll need 2 full length cables rather to just 1 full length cable and 1 small adapter.


 

 All unnecessary as the LC has a PhaseSplitter for the SE input.
 So no adapters needed.


----------



## nudd

joeexp said:


> All unnecessary as the LC has a PhaseSplitter for the SE input.
> So no adapters needed.




Not the same. The LC has the phase splitter at the input stage so there should be little difference connecting the Source in SE or balanced mode provided you are using normal cable lengths and don't need to reject common mode noise.

There is still a difference at the output stage where I think the outputs at SE are known to be noisier then the balanced ouputs. I think the SE outputs just tap the + of each channel so there will only be half the voltage swing. 

Also there must be something inherent in the implementation that makes this more noisy for SE despite the balanced outputs having double the power on each channel as initial reviewers have mentioned it is noisy using SE ouput to sensitive iems, but the noise goes away when swapping the same iem with balanced cables.


----------



## xuan87

joeexp said:


> All unnecessary as the LC has a PhaseSplitter for the SE input.
> So no adapters needed.


 
  
 The phase splitter, as your rightly put it, is for the analog in. 
  
 However, my reply was to an original question someone had about using both SE and Balanced headphone out on the LC with his CIEM without changing his CIEM cables.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Placed an order for one of these last night. #959.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Interesting, the flow of conversation has ebbed towards cables. I've been a bit of a prude concerning cables, think most cable makers claims are over the top. Strangely, I've spent a lot over the last 2 months on power cords, RCA interconnects, headphone cables, SE and balanced adapters, as well as a power conditioner. I've spent way more then I intended on all of this stuff but my rig has never sounded better. I'm just glad all the pieces are in place and waiting for the arrival of the LC. I've sold off a ton of extra gear to fund this new rig.


----------



## sahmen

cardiiiii said:


> Placed an order for one of these last night. #959.


 
 Ordered mine  only last Thursday,  7/23, and my number was 941... But what does #941 mean in relation to the actual number of pre-order units that have been sold? Does anyone know for sure how close or how far we are from the 500 count goal?


----------



## Cardiiiii

I would think that there must be around 50 or so left. I'm sure Dr. C can give us an exact count.


----------



## Poimandres

Good catch on the AC14SE MKII. I would think that the 14 gauge cable would suffice as well. 

Dr. Cavalli what are your thoughts? Also what is the maximum power draw on the LC?


----------



## rollinbr

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






zerodeefex said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, well then I might as well get everyone excited and say that we're only one away then.  For I am actually #397!  MWAHAHAHAHA!  Suck it Jexby!
> ...





  
 Something else?  CRIMSON?!?!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Lol, well if 396 was first, then I wasn't first after all.  So we both fail!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


cskippy said:


> Any thoughts on whether this amp could do the HE-6 justice?





  
 Hmm, Ima say no.


 It was never confirmed if 396 was an actual liquid carbon order or not. Otherwise warrenpchi has the first order at 397. What we don't know is how many *other* Cavalli product orders are mixed in with the current count. All Cavalli product orders go through one system. I would guess we would be getting close to the 500 number though. My order number is 435.


----------



## d1sturb3d

and I think 1 order does not mean it is 1 unit only


----------



## d1sturb3d

runeight said:


> I don't recall exactly, but it would have been one of these three: CablePro, WyWires or JPS Labs.


 
  
 for those who are wondering what power cable Dr. Alex used..here is his post a while back


----------



## goldendarko

If anyone's interested I plan on selling my LC soon after it arrives. PM me if you want to set something up now and are looking to get a discount on one.


----------



## LajostheHun

goldendarko said:


> If anyone's interested I plan on selling my LC soon after it arrives. PM me if you want to set something up now and are looking to get a discount on one.


 
 I thought flipping was verboten.


----------



## xuan87

lajosthehun said:


> I thought flipping was verboten.


 
  
 He's not flipping if he's selling at a lower cost.
  
 With the LC still available for preorder, people will be insane to buy from him if he's planning to flip.


----------



## x RELIC x

goldendarko said:


> If anyone's interested I plan on selling my LC soon after it arrives. PM me if you want to set something up now and are looking to get a discount on one.




??????? :blink:


----------



## LajostheHun

xuan87 said:


> He's not flipping if he's selling at a lower cost.
> 
> With the LC still available for preorder, people will be insane to buy from him if he's planning to flip.


 
 He said after it was shipped, by then no preorder will exists or it's a good chance it won't. We shall see how much he plans to ask for it. Either way it won't bother me one bit, as I ordered mine long ago.


----------



## LajostheHun

poimandres said:


> Good catch on the AC14SE MKII. I would think that the 14 gauge cable would suffice as well.
> 
> Dr. Cavalli what are your thoughts? Also what is the maximum power draw on the LC?


 
 Since a typical wire inside the wall for a 15amp breaker is 14 gauge, yeah it's more than enough for a HP amp


----------



## goldendarko

Not trying to flip. Just don't need it. I bought it purely just to hear it with no intention of keeping it, mainly wanted to hear a cavalli and this is about as cheap as buying a flight to go to a show  not trying to make any money on it either I'll well below cost after they've gone out but I'm not gonna give it away either just figured someone might want to get a better price by waiting a month or so after general release and that way they have something lined up too. Keeping the love in the head fi community


----------



## Poimandres

You may not want to give it a listen if you don't want to keep it.


----------



## goldendarko

poimandres said:


> You may not want to give it a listen if you don't want to keep it.


If I'm honestly that blown away by it I'll probably just buy a liquid gold since I want my next amp to be an endgame one. I actually think I'll be disappointed though because I doubt it will compete with other amps I've heard already though I think it will be very good for the price.


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> Frankly, I'm surprised that no one has posted anything like the following:
> 
> _"Alex, I love the way the Carbon sounded at [INSERT_SHOW_ATTENDED_HERE].  I was wondering if you could tell me what cables you used so that I can get the same ones.  Thanks"_



Those cables were huge! Personally I'd never buy cables bigger than my…. Anyway, that leaves out a lot of cables in my case....


----------



## audiofrk

goldendarko said:


> If I'm honestly that blown away by it I'll probably just buy a liquid gold since I want my next amp to be an endgame one. I actually think I'll be disappointed though because I doubt it will compete with other amps I've heard already though I think it will be very good for the price.


 

Well he's honest I'll give him that


----------



## ying

poimandres said:


> Good catch on the AC14SE MKII. I would think that the 14 gauge cable would suffice as well.
> 
> Dr. Cavalli what are your thoughts? Also what is the maximum power draw on the LC?




Did you try the Ac14MKII? Haha


----------



## Cardiiiii

Quick question for the pros. I've read previously on this thread that the LC performs at its best when headphones are connected through the balanced output. 

So am I correct in assuming that the entire rig from iMac to headphones need to be balanced? If so how do I go about that?

iMac-USB-DAC-XLR-Amp-XLR-Headphones?


----------



## thomascrown

Imo the dac doesn't need to be balanced, when tried mine switching between the outputs, I couldn't notice any difference but I have no experience with other ones.


----------



## DecentLevi

We've already established that the LC has a unique phase splitting function that enables SE (RCA) inputs generally perform as well as balanced connection. It was I that suggested to try balanced input anyway, but just in case your DAC may happen to have a better balanced section than SE; which may really be unnecessary. Also yes, the designer says that this amp amp does give better performance to headphones using balanced haeadphone cables.


----------



## Poimandres

ying said:


> Did you try the Ac14MKII? Haha



Maybe you should add to the thread instead of taking away from it. Troll much?

Have you ever used the AC14MKII? If so what are your thoughts on it? It should work fine with the LC.


----------



## Cardiiiii

decentlevi said:


> We've already established that the LC has a unique phase splitting function that enables SE (RCA) inputs generally perform as well as balanced connection. It was I that suggested to try balanced input anyway, but just in case your DAC may happen to have a better balanced section than SE; which may really be unnecessary. Also yes, the designer says that this amp amp does give better performance to headphones using balanced haeadphone cables.




So my understanding is that if the output to the headphone is balanced then there is a tangible difference to sound quality. Where as there is no difference if the input is balanced or not because of the phase splitter which effectively balances an unbalanced signal.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

cardiiiii said:


> So my understanding is that if the output to the headphone is balanced then there is a tangible difference to sound quality. Where as there is no difference if the input is balanced or not because of the phase splitter which effectively balances an unbalanced signal.


 
  
 If you have a DAC you like, and it "only" has RCAs for output.  Then don't sweat it.
  
 On the headphone end, you need to have a balanced cable in order access all the amp's power.


----------



## Cardiiiii

buttuglyjeff said:


> If you have a DAC you like, and it "only" has RCAs for output.  Then don't sweat it.
> 
> On the headphone end, you need to have a balanced cable in order access all the amp's power.


 
  
 I don't have a standalone DAC right now, I only have a Fiio E18 driving my LCD2. I wanted a more serious rig so started upgrading. I'm very curious about the multi-bit tech used on the Yggy and the fact that it'll be trickled down to the Gungir and Bifrost with only the former being a balanced DAC. So if the DAC doesn't have to be balanced, then I can save some money and go for the Bifrost. I'm just waiting for the Schiit event on Aug 15 before I make a decision and given the state of the Aussie $, I want to keep spending to a minimum.


----------



## parbaked

poimandres said:


> I posted this in the other thread, some here may be interested.
> 
> Audio advisor has the Pangea 14se MKII cables on sale. You can get a 1.5 meter cable for 65. 75% off IIRC.
> 
> ...


 

 The Pangea and Black Mamba cables are ALWAYS on sale...that's how Audio Advisor markets them ie. huge fake MSRP and a huge fake discount.
 Nothing wrong with the cables but you get what you pay for...nothing more.


----------



## Stillhart

cardiiiii said:


> So my understanding is that if the output to the headphone is balanced then there is a tangible difference to sound quality. Where as there is no difference if the input is balanced or not because of the phase splitter which effectively balances an unbalanced signal.


 
  
 This is essentially correct.  Certainly it's been my experience with my testing on the LC, but I only have one balanced DAC to test it with currently.  If I get my hands on more, I'll be sure to update if it makes a difference with other DAC's.


----------



## DecentLevi

Oh Stillhart, you own a LC now - so why not heat things up around here and give us your own review on it?
  
 Come on Stillhart, I'm sure you can raise the bar from the last review - maybe you can give us your impressions using adjectives or the sound glossary, or comparisons to other amps... or come up with your own review style.


----------



## Stillhart

@warrenpchi has been bugging me to write a full review, but I honestly don't feel that I have enough experience with different amps to write a review.  
  
 I'm happy to give some impressions as well as comparisons to the amps I do have sitting around (NFB-28, Project Solstice, C5 Portable Amp).  I don't know how much that will help people, but I'm happy to contribute FWIW.


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> @warrenpchi
> has been bugging me to write a full review, but I honestly don't feel that I have enough experience with different amps to write a review.
> 
> I'm happy to give some impressions as well as comparisons to the amps I do have sitting around (NFB-28, Project Solstice, C5 Portable Amp).  I don't know how much that will help people, but I'm happy to contribute FWIW.




MHO is that a review doesn't necessarily have to compare. Sometimes just listening to and reporting on lots of music or a smaller number of revealing tracks can be equally as helpful. Providing that the rest of the chain isn't limiting the results.


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> MHO is that a review doesn't necessarily have to compare. Sometimes just listening to and reporting on lots of music or a smaller number of revealing tracks can be equally as helpful. Providing that the rest of the chain isn't limiting the results.


 
  
 Well jeez, if the man himself wants to see a review from me, who am I to say no?  lol  I'll try to work something up.  If anyone has any suggestions on tracks they're curious about, let me know.
  
 For the record, I've got 4 desktop DAC's right now (including the Theta Basic II balanced, Audio-GD DAC-19 and Audio-GD NFB-28) and too many headphones (including the HE-560, Noble 4c, HD650, PM-3 and ZMF Blackwoods with the Omni coming soon) for the rest of the chain.  Hopefully that should cover enough bases to not limit the results.
  
 Come to think of it, why do I have so many headphones and DAC's and only a few amps?


----------



## ying

stillhart said:


> Well jeez, if the man himself wants to see a review from me, who am I to say no?  lol  I'll try to work something up.  If anyone has any suggestions on tracks they're curious about, let me know.
> 
> For the record, I've got 4 desktop DAC's right now (including the Theta Basic II balanced, Audio-GD DAC-19 and Audio-GD NFB-28) and too many headphones (including the HE-560, Noble 4c, HD650, PM-3 and ZMF Blackwoods with the Omni coming soon) for the rest of the chain.  Hopefully that should cover enough bases to not limit the results.
> 
> Come to think of it, why do I have so many headphones and DAC's and only a few amps?


 
  
 +1 for putting up a review haha!


----------



## forestitalia

rollinbr said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think we are some thousands now.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> Come to think of it, why do I have so many headphones and DAC's?  :confused_face(1):




You have a sickness. Group therapy may help. "Hello Stillhart. Welcome."


----------



## Poimandres

Nope still not at 500 according to the good doctor. Can't imagine they all haven't sold out yet.


----------



## Evshrug

joeexp said:


> All unnecessary as the LC has a PhaseSplitter for the SE input.
> So no adapters needed.



But I'm good on input; I'm talking about being able to easily switch between using some Custom Art CIEMs with either my iPhone (for convenience at my noisy work) or my preordered Liquid Carbon (balanced output, for max experience).





xuan87 said:


> The phase splitter, as your rightly put it, is for the analog in.
> However, my reply was to an original question someone had about using both SE and Balanced headphone out on the LC with his CIEM without changing his CIEM cables.



Yes!
Because I'm concerned of wear and tear on the IEM connector. I liked your ideas by the way, too bad you can't have a SE cord with a balanced adapter! I may just get a 4' balanced cable that can plug straight into the LC (kobiconn or XLR, hmm), and a short adapter cable with just enough slack to stash the cable/cable connection chunk in my pocket next to the phone. I can remote control my playback from my watch, anyway.




decentlevi said:


> Oh Stillhart, you own a LC now - so why not heat things up around here and give us your own review on it?
> 
> Come on Stillhart, I'm sure you can raise the bar from the last review - maybe you can give us your impressions using adjectives or the sound glossary, or comparisons to other amps... or come up with your own review style.



Oh, the man definitely has his own review style with IMO a nice mix of facts/descriptions (for objective understanding) and impressions/personal opinion/humor (so I can tell if he was interested or having fun). Stillhart already posted a pretty good impression of the Liquid Carbon back when he demo'd it at CanJam (literally the reason why I pre-ordered it, also I felt I needed an alternative to my S.E.T. tube amp), but I bet we'll hear more about it when the time is right (Now?). I'm gonna review the daylights out of the LC when mine arrives!


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> Well jeez, if the man himself wants to see a review from me, who am I to say no?  lol  I'll try to work something up.  If anyone has any suggestions on tracks they're curious about, let me know.
> 
> For the record, I've got 4 desktop DAC's right now (including the Theta Basic II balanced, Audio-GD DAC-19 and Audio-GD NFB-28) and too many headphones (including the HE-560, Noble 4c, HD650, PM-3 and ZMF Blackwoods with the Omni coming soon) for the rest of the chain.  Hopefully that should cover enough bases to not limit the results.
> 
> Come to think of it, why do I have so many headphones and DAC's and only a few amps?  :confused_face(1):




Go for it bud, we all want to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Poimandres

stillhart said:


> Well jeez, if the man himself wants to see a review from me, who am I to say no?  lol  I'll try to work something up.  If anyone has any suggestions on tracks they're curious about, let me know.
> 
> For the record, I've got 4 desktop DAC's right now (including the Theta Basic II balanced, Audio-GD DAC-19 and Audio-GD NFB-28) and too many headphones (including the HE-560, Noble 4c, HD650, PM-3 and ZMF Blackwoods with the Omni coming soon) for the rest of the chain.  Hopefully that should cover enough bases to not limit the results.
> 
> Come to think of it, why do I have so many headphones and DAC's and only a few amps?


 

 Looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## Stillhart

Thanks for the encouragement, folks.  I'll get working on it tonight.


----------



## longbowbbs

stillhart said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, folks.  I'll get working on it tonight.


----------



## nudd

evshrug said:


> But I'm good on input; I'm talking about being able to easily switch between using some Custom Art CIEMs with either my iPhone (for convenience at my noisy work) or my preordered Liquid Carbon (balanced output, for max experience).
> Yes!
> Because I'm concerned of wear and tear on the IEM connector. I liked your ideas by the way, too bad you can't have a SE cord with a balanced adapter! I may just get a 4' balanced cable that can plug straight into the LC (kobiconn or XLR, hmm), and a short adapter cable with just enough slack to stash the cable/cable connection chunk in my pocket next to the phone. I can remote control my playback from my watch, anyway.
> Oh, the man definitely has his own review style with IMO a nice mix of facts/descriptions (for objective understanding) and impressions/personal opinion/humor (so I can tell if he was interested or having fun). Stillhart already posted a pretty good impression of the Liquid Carbon back when he demo'd it at CanJam (literally the reason why I pre-ordered it, also I felt I needed an alternative to my S.E.T. tube amp), but I bet we'll hear more about it when the time is right (Now?). I'm gonna review the daylights out of the LC when mine arrives!




I have come to conclusiom which i will be implementing is that the best way to do this is to get a kobicon connector but get it custom made so that instead of it being right angled, make it straight. If you are handy with diy it should be possible to convert the roght angled plug to a straight plug yourself but for convenience I am just getting on custom made

Then a kobiconn female to 3.5mm trs adaptor for the iPhone.


----------



## adobotj

stillhart said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, folks.  I'll get working on it tonight.




No pressure stillhart. We're all waiting hehe


----------



## jamato8

nudd said:


> I have come to conclusiom which i will be implementing is that the best way to do this is to get a kobicon connector but get it custom made so that instead of it being right angled, make it straight. If you are handy with diy it should be possible to convert the roght angled plug to a straight plug yourself but for convenience I am just getting on custom made
> 
> Then a kobiconn female to 3.5mm trs adaptor for the iPhone.


 

 It is very easy to make it a straight connector. Did it years ago for the RSA amps and my own IC's and Whiplash does it for the modular headphone cables they make.


----------



## Evshrug

nudd said:


> I have come to conclusiom which i will be implementing is that the best way to do this is to get a kobicon connector but get it custom made so that instead of it being right angled, make it straight. If you are handy with diy it should be possible to convert the roght angled plug to a straight plug yourself but for convenience I am just getting on custom made
> 
> Then a kobiconn female to 3.5mm trs adaptor for the iPhone.




Thanks!





jamato8 said:


> It is very easy to make it a straight connector. Did it years ago for the RSA amps and my own IC's and Whiplash does it for the modular headphone cables they make.




Sounds good! Whiplash, you say?


----------



## jamato8

evshrug said:


> Thanks!
> Sounds good! Whiplash, you say?


 

 Yes, I use them for all my cables now. For me they are the best.


----------



## Stillhart

I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/reviews/13648
  
 Now... I think it's time for bed!


----------



## DecentLevi

So Stillhart (Dan), how did you chance on your LC so much sooner than the rest of us? And if you think it's worthy, go ahead and send the link to your initial impressions post on it... until you get to write up a loong 3-4 part review 4 us (LOL). Really don't be afraid, a review can just be casual impressions. But I think you have quite great headphones and DAC's to use for the sound impressions.
  
 So does anyone know which part of August it will be shipping? I'm guessing 26th.
  
*EDIT*: OK excellent man! I'll read your review (posted above this ^ )


----------



## gr8soundz

Thanks for the review Stillhart.

Very nice, especially considering how quickly you wrote it.

Good info on the balanced vs SE. Oh, and the soundstage too.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, folks.  I'll get working on it tonight.


 
  
 Do you still have it?


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/reviews/13648
> 
> Now... I think it's time for bed!




Nice review mate. Which headphones do you think pair well with the LC? Is the changing the DAC affecting the sound of the LC easily recognisable, say NFB-28, Theta and DAC-19?


----------



## DecentLevi

Stillhart I read your review (above), and I'll have to hand it to ya - you do an outstanding job at reviews, even if you didn't think so. Your take on its' sound is really spot on with what I heard while testing it at a HeadFi meet.
  
 About the semi dark-ish sound character you mentioned, I didn't seem to notice that, but maybe it's because I didn't do any direct comparisons to other amps. But I did notice, that, IMO, when switching from the Ether to HD 650 headphone it went from sounding energetic, lush, bass heavy & _nearly _detailed with a treble roll-off, to sound just as energetic, yet with a more or less tonally correct amount of bass, possibly bigger soundstage, and just the right amount of details in the highs.
  
 I also found it to have a slightly euphonic / colored sound of a tube amp, but only the best-of-the-best sound one could ever expect from a tube, like a smidget more vivid sounding that a regular SS amp and with all the detail you would expect from a good SS amp as well. Nothing was mentioned about the impact/dynamics, which, both Dr. Cavalli and I agree it does mesmerizingly well with.


----------



## Poimandres

Indeed excellent review, you should think about reviewing professionally! Looking forward to the LC!


----------



## warrenpchi




----------



## Poimandres

warrenpchi said:


>



While I appreciate humor (more than most) and more often than not respond in ways that are ultimately for my own benefit, I wasn't attempting to amuse myself or anyone else. 

Of the 2 reviews that I have read Stillharts imho was the better read and he did a great review in little to no time.


----------



## warrenpchi

poimandres said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > poimandres said:
> ...


 
  
 Stillhart (a.k.a. Dan Browdy) formerly wrote for Headphone.Guru, and will soon be making his appearance as a reviewer/writer at Audio-Head.com


----------



## Poimandres

Sweet good to know. Now the roflmao makes sense.


----------



## warrenpchi

Sorry about that, I meant no offense.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I was laughing to myself more than anything else.  But yes, you are right, perhaps he should be reviewing gear.


----------



## deadbeef

Out of curiosity, anyone tried the LC with Audeze EL-8s?


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the review Stillhart...very much appreciated. I would as you, at your leisure, to comment on the Carbon with the hd650. If you've already made comments and I missed them, then my bad.


----------



## warrenpchi

deadbeef said:


> Out of curiosity, anyone tried the LC with Audeze EL-8s?


 

 Open or closed?


----------



## deadbeef

warrenpchi said:


> Open or closed?


 
 Open


----------



## warrenpchi

deadbeef said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Open or closed?
> ...


 
  
 Yes.  I'm listening to TIDAL > Stello DA100 Signature > Liquid Carbon > EL-8 Open-Backed as I type this.  What would you like to know?


----------



## deadbeef

warrenpchi said:


> Yes.  I'm listening to TIDAL > Stello DA100 Signature > Liquid Carbon > EL-8 Open-Backed as I type this.  What would you like to know?


 
 Upgraded from Q701s and couldn't resist picking up the LC but haven't had a chance to get to a meet.  Just trying to confirm the combination matches the glowing reviews with other headphones given the mixed reviews on the El-8.  Sounds like I've got nothing to worry about if you're still listening to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Getting even more excited  for the LC to arrive!


----------



## DecentLevi

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the review Stillhart...very much appreciated. I would as you, at your leisure, to comment on the Carbon with the hd650. If you've already made comments and I missed them, then my bad.


 
 I commented here about the HD 650 pairing


----------



## warrenpchi

deadbeef said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.  I'm listening to TIDAL > Stello DA100 Signature > Liquid Carbon > EL-8 Open-Backed as I type this.  What would you like to know?
> ...


 

 It's definitely better with the Carbon than without.  Without the Carbon, I found that that the EL-8 could be a little strident in the upper mids at times, and was perhaps a bit thin at the bottom end.  With the Carbon, it's more neutral at the top end, with a greater sense of gravitas at the bottom end.  Other than that, improved staging is the other most noticeable benefit of adding the Carbon to the mix.


----------



## deadbeef

warrenpchi said:


> It's definitely better with the Carbon than without.  Without the Carbon, I found that that the EL-8 could be a little strident in the upper mids at times, and was perhaps a bit thin at the bottom end.  With the Carbon, it's more neutral at the top end, with a greater sense of gravitas at the bottom end.  Other than that, improved staging is the other most noticeable benefit of adding the Carbon to the mix.



Sounds like it'll prove to be a worthwhile upgrade for sure!


----------



## swspiers

warrenpchi said:


> Sorry about that, I meant no offense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh thank goodness!  I was confused there for a minute, since you're one of the last people I would expect to write something that snarky or sarcastic.
  
 Whew!


----------



## doctorjazz

Just got to the Stillheart review, nicely written, can't wait for the last weeks to pass...


----------



## Stillhart

Thanks for all the kinds words, folks.
  
 Quote:


buttuglyjeff said:


> Do you still have it?


 
  
 Yep.  Happy to answer any specific questions that weren't addressed in the review.
  


lukeap69 said:


> Nice review mate. Which headphones do you think pair well with the LC? Is the changing the DAC affecting the sound of the LC easily recognisable, say NFB-28, Theta and DAC-19?


 
  
 I think the best pairing would probably be brighter headphones and ones with a big soundstage.  The HE-560, for instance, is wonderful with it.  The ZMF x Vibro with the new cowhide pads is on the warm side to begin with and I find the pairing with the LC to push it too far into warmth for my preferences.  But keep in mind, I prefer my sound to be slightly bright of neutral.  Someone like Tyll would probably love the Vibro pairing.  
  
 Just based on the tonality, I suspect the HD800 would pair well.  I'm not sure if it has the power to deal with the weird impedance issues tho, so I take that guess with a grain of salt.
  
 Changing the DAC doesn't affect the sound of the Amp.  The amp is very transparent, though, so it's great for evaluating differences between DAC's.  BTW, the tonality of the LC pairs very well with Sabre DAC's.  It's almost like it was voiced specifically to account for the weaknesses in Sabre DAC's.  I still much prefer the sound of the R2R DAC's, but for those who haven't made the switch yet, I think you'll be happy.
  


decentlevi said:


> Stillhart I read your review (above), and I'll have to hand it to ya - you do an outstanding job at reviews, even if you didn't think so. Your take on its' sound is really spot on with what I heard while testing it at a HeadFi meet.
> 
> About the semi dark-ish sound character you mentioned, I didn't seem to notice that, but maybe it's because I didn't do any direct comparisons to other amps. But I did notice, that, IMO, when switching from the Ether to HD 650 headphone it went from sounding energetic, lush, bass heavy & _nearly _detailed with a treble roll-off, to sound just as energetic, yet with a more or less tonally correct amount of bass, possibly bigger soundstage, and just the right amount of details in the highs.
> 
> I also found it to have a slightly euphonic / colored sound of a tube amp, but only the best-of-the-best sound one could ever expect from a tube, like a smidget more vivid sounding that a regular SS amp and with all the detail you would expect from a good SS amp as well. Nothing was mentioned about the impact/dynamics, which, both Dr. Cavalli and I agree it does mesmerizingly well with.


 
  
 Yes, I didn't notice the slight warmth either until I did some back to back comparisons.  And yes, I agree that the slight tube sound is very subtle and reminiscent of the really TOTL clean tubes I've heard.  Sorry I didn't speak much about the impact/dynamics.  I am not confident enough in my understanding of those terms so I decided to just stick with what I know.
  


poimandres said:


> While I appreciate humor (more than most) and more often than not respond in ways that are ultimately for my own benefit, I wasn't attempting to amuse myself or anyone else.
> 
> Of the 2 reviews that I have read Stillharts imho was the better read and he did a great review in little to no time.


 
  
 Don't mind Warren, he's here for his own amusement.  Your comment touched on something we were discussing yesterday and it was highly amusing but more of an inside joke.
  
 And thanks for the kind words, but I want to stress that it's not a competition.  Every reviewer has their own style and they're all beneficial in their own ways.  I know that Arly put a lot of work into his review and deserves a lot of credit for being much more thorough than I was.
  


matttcg said:


> Thanks for the review Stillhart...very much appreciated. I would as you, at your leisure, to comment on the Carbon with the hd650. If you've already made comments and I missed them, then my bad.


 
  
 I'll do some listening tonight and report back!  I'm curious how it pairs, too, and the 650 is a good reference point for a lot of people.  Honestly, I didn't mention it in my review because I simply haven't used it much lately.  I'll change that.


----------



## sacredgates

hi Stillhart,
  
 that are some good additional notes to your actual review here in your last post... thanks.
 I am waiting for an LC myself to be combined with a Concero HD dac and the ATH-W3000ANV which are being recabled to balanced by Matthew from Forza Audioworks.


----------



## doctorjazz

One thing I note, from your (Stillheart) review, I think it wouldn't pair well with the HE-1000, which doesn't tend to be bright imo (I know, some do think so), but some who have heard the combo have raved about it. In fact, it's part of why I went for the LC. Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> One thing I note, from your (Stillheart) review, I think it wouldn't pair well with the HE-1000, which doesn't tend to be bright imo (I know, some do think so), but some who have heard the combo have raved about it. In fact, it's part of why I went for the LC. Anyone have any ideas?


 
  
 At this point I can't recall if I had overlap on the LC and the HE-1000 beta, so I can't speak on the pairing first-hand.  But I'm certain it'll be fine.  
  
 The HE-1000 is extremely neutral so the small amount of coloration from the LC isn't going to push it into a bad place.  The HEK is an amazing sounding headphone and I think the euphony from the LC is really going to complement it well.  I know Frank (the head Guru) thought the HE-1000 sounded amazing from his LAu and supposedly the LC shares the house sound.
  
 The only headphones that I think wouldn't pair particularly well are ones that are on the warm side to begin with, and that's only because of personal preference.  I wouldn't get hung up too much on pairings with this amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

poimandres said:


> Stillhart do you still have the Gustard Dac? If so I am curious to see how it pairs with the LC.


 
  
 Actually, I never owned the Gustard DAC.  I had the U12 digital interface for a while, but couldn't get it working with my Theta.
  


decentlevi said:


> Anyway Stillhart, no need to be sorry - by dynamics / impact you can essentially imagine it to be how hard the beat 'slams', so good dynamics would be fairly hard hitting drums (fast / lifelike attack & decay of short sounds), whereas the opposite would be muddy sounding.
> 
> I'm surprised you didn't mention about the SoundMagic HP 100 in your review, you used to be a big proponent of this 'can. IIRC, I actually wasn't a fan of  its' pairing with the LC; but that is a rare exception with this amp.


 
  
 Actually I sold the HP100 to my buddy @conquerator2.  I stopped using them when I bought the PM-3 and he needed a good set of closed cans so yeah.  It's a great headphone that scaled really well.  I suspect it would sound good out of the LC, but I can't say first-hand anymore.


----------



## jamato8

Looking forward to the LC. Nice to have a larger but still transportable balanced amp. 
  
 On the discourse above, it all went over my head as I didn't see where someone wrote anything to start with that was insightful. I guess I missed it. :^)
  
 So Cavalli, let's get a move on! :^)
  
 I still have 1865 kn dac chips and I guess they aren't hard to find in NOS.


----------



## lukeap69

@Stillhart
  
 How's the pairing with the PM-3?


----------



## adobotj

Hi Stillhart! First of all, thank you for an informative and well constructed review of the LC pre prod unit. I'm on a mission to find and purchase my very first desktop/outboard DAC to pair and use with the LC. As of this moment, the one that comes on top (for my needs and my budget) is the TEAC UD-301 which uses BurrBrown1795. You previously mentioned that the Sabre DAC's pairs very well with the LC but still prefer R2R DACs. I'm very new to DACs as i only have portables in my possession. May i ask for a recommendation of dacs based on Sabre's and R2R below $500?
  
 I did a quick research and found R2R dacs to be quite expensive... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wondering and wishing maybe there's a R2R based DAC that is well within my budget that i just don't know of. Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## lukeap69

adobotj said:


> Hi Stillhart! First of all, thank you for an informative and well constructed review of the LC pre prod unit. I'm on a mission to find and purchase my very first desktop/outboard DAC to pair and use with the LC. As of this moment, the one that comes on top (for my needs and my budget) is the TEAC UD-301 which uses BurrBrown1795. You previously mentioned that the Sabre DAC's pairs very well with the LC but still prefer R2R DACs. I'm very new to DACs as i only have portables in my possession. May i ask for a recommendation of dacs based on Sabre's and R2R below $500?
> 
> I did a quick research and found R2R dacs to be quite expensive...
> 
> ...


 
 Try to search Teradak Chameleon.​ Darko has a review of it and IIRC it is available via ebay.


----------



## Evshrug

An R2R Dac is a more complicated/expensive to make, so all the DACs will cost more. I got mine under $500 because I found an old one on eBay, but then I had to find a coax output to feed the DAC with music.

There's a whole separate thread for discussing DACs to try with the LC, but basically a good one will sound good with the LC. Amps that aren't garbage tend to sound much more similar than comparing headphones, so basically aim to find the headphone with the sound you like, and upgrades to the rest of the chain will make that sound slightly better.


----------



## joe

Guys, let's stop with the attacks and get back on topic.


----------



## forestitalia

lukeap69 said:


> @Stillhart
> 
> How's the pairing with the PM-3?


 
 That's is interesting.


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> @Stillhart
> 
> How's the pairing with the PM-3?


 
  
 It wasn't notably better or worse than anything else.  The PM-3 is an interesting beast because it's so easy to drive and sounds pretty good off of anything.  It does scale a bit with more power so it'll sound better off the LC than direct from your phone or DAP.
  


adobotj said:


> Hi Stillhart! First of all, thank you for an informative and well constructed review of the LC pre prod unit. I'm on a mission to find and purchase my very first desktop/outboard DAC to pair and use with the LC. As of this moment, the one that comes on top (for my needs and my budget) is the TEAC UD-301 which uses BurrBrown1795. You previously mentioned that the Sabre DAC's pairs very well with the LC but still prefer R2R DACs. I'm very new to DACs as i only have portables in my possession. May i ask for a recommendation of dacs based on Sabre's and R2R below $500?
> 
> I did a quick research and found R2R dacs to be quite expensive...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well to be clear, I actually don't like the Sabre sound much anymore.  I think it has its place with some types of music (notably very synthetic electronica and dance music), but overall I don't much like it.  I'd rather have a TI or AK or Wolfson based chip if I'm going Delta-Sigma.  My point was just that the worst things about the Sabre chip (the over-pronounced highs, the too analytical mids and the just okay bass) seem to be countered by the Cavalli house sound.  So it makes the Sabre sound less bad.  But starting with something that isn't as bad sounding to begin with is even better, you know?
  
  
 Currently, the only way to get a cheap R2R DAC (that's not running the Philips chip, which I've heard isn't very good) is to buy vintage off eBay or buy on the classifieds here from someone who did that already.  There are Thetas for under $400, Adcoms for under $200, etc.  You just have to really be on top of it, like any good eBay hunt.  Otherwise, the cheapest new one you can get currently is the Audio-GD DAC-19 for about $850.  It's very good as a few of us in this thread can attest.
  
 For non R2R DAC's under $500... you might check out this thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go


----------



## mscott58

joe said:


> Guys, let's stop with the attacks and get back on topic.


 
 Hear, hear! Thanks Joe


----------



## doctorjazz

You know, I had one of the old Adcom players, and I never thought it was all that great sounding, rolled off stuff, lost detail (my reference was a Linn LP12 turntable, so maybe it isn't a fair comparison). I do have a more recent R2R, Mojo Mystique, which actually is very nice sounding, better than the DA built into my Peachtree Grandpre, but it costs more than $500...)


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> You know, I had one of the old Adcom players, and I never thought it was all that great sounding, rolled off stuff, lost detail (my reference was a Linn LP12 turntable, so maybe it isn't a fair comparison). I do have a more recent R2R, Mojo Mystique, which actually is very nice sounding, better than the DA built into my Peachtree Grandpre, but it costs more than $500...)


 

 That is the thing. It has taken a long time to get to the point where we can retrieve the details and have the acoustics to be somewhat like analog/real music. I have some R2R dacs and they are enjoyable but they can't do what a good LP can with a 250 turntable. So what do you do? I think a Sabre chip can do it, when implemented correctly but I agree that many R2R chips are great. I don't like oversampling and I do not use filtering after the dac chip. As usual, it is all about implementation and it has taken years to figure out how to do that and they are still working on the 0's and 1's.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> You know, I had one of the old Adcom players, and I never thought it was all that great sounding, rolled off stuff, lost detail (my reference was a Linn LP12 turntable, so maybe it isn't a fair comparison). I do have a more recent R2R, Mojo Mystique, which actually is very nice sounding, better than the DA built into my Peachtree Grandpre, but it costs more than $500...)


 
  
 I agree that the old Adcom isn't GREAT, but for a $200 (or less) DAC that gives you R2R tonality, it's fine for the price.  I paid less than $100 for my GDA-600 and I'd say it's easily worth the money, despite its clear flaws (notably the congested, muddy sound overall).  
  


jamato8 said:


> That is the thing. It has taken a long time to get to the point where we can retrieve the details and have the acoustics to be somewhat like analog/real music. I have some R2R dacs and they are enjoyable but they can't do what a good LP can with a 250 turntable. So what do you do? I think a Sabre chip can do it, when implemented correctly but I agree that many R2R chips are great. I don't like oversampling and I do not use filtering after the dac chip. As usual, it is all about implementation and it has taken years to figure out how to do that and they are still working on the 0's and 1's.


 
  
 Yep, not all R2R DAC's are created equal.  That's why I've been trying to experiment with different ones.  I don't claim that simply using R2R will make everything better.  I just prefer its strengths and weaknesses to most D-S DAC's I've heard in a similar price range.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Maybe I'm just old school but I don't think you can ever replace a good turntable with a good system behind it. Mind you, I really miss my vinyl days


----------



## Evshrug

Vinyl LPs... On the plus side, you don't have digitization or much change from what the mic picked up. On the other hand, LPs required maintainance on dust, LPs and needles wearing out, timing belts etc. Digital lets you shuffle your whole song collection and make anything instantly accessible without having to sort through pounds and pounds of vinyl and paper, and also ushered in a new age of editing and synthesized sounds (wub wub!).
I can appreciate what vinyl did, but I wouldn't have nearly the music collection or time spent enjoying it if I didn't have digital music.

Either way, I Bet the LC could be used with vinyl or a DAC!


----------



## Poimandres

From the sounds of it the LC is phenomenal with anything.

Curious as to how the Meridian Director pairs with it.


----------



## aarontyson

poimandres said:


> From the sounds of it the LC is phenomenal with anything.
> 
> Curious as to how the Meridian Director pairs with it.


 
 Well yes and no. If your source and DAC is crap, then the Carbon will relay the same crappy signal. I think others have said it's better if your DAC is on the brighter side.


----------



## Poimandres

I didn't think about that. I always use flacs, thanks.


----------



## olor1n

@Stillhart - thanks for the insightful review. Your impressions have reinforced my suspicion that the LC will be a very good match for the HD800.


----------



## doctorjazz

Yup, vinyl is definitely a pain in the kiester, expensive, inconvenient, no question about it. Recently refurbished my Linn, new suspension, new cartridge, new power supply, spent enough to get quite the DA converter. And I like convenience as much as the next guy do most of my listening to digital, mist of that portable (hence the Head Fi presence). But, I recently hooked my Linn/Pro-Ject tube Phono stage into a MicroZOTL2/HE-1000 with Norne Zoetic cable....manomanomanomanomanomanomanoman....


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Yep.  Happy to answer any specific questions that weren't addressed in the review.
> 
> 
> I think the best pairing would probably be brighter headphones and ones with a big soundstage.  The HE-560, for instance, is wonderful with it.  The ZMF x Vibro with the new cowhide pads is on the warm side to begin with and I find the pairing with the LC to push it too far into warmth for my preferences.  But keep in mind, I prefer my sound to be slightly bright of neutral.  Someone like Tyll would probably love the Vibro pairing.
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks.  The only thing I'd like to hear is your impressions of the Omni with the LC (When you get it).  I suspect you'll like the pairing more then the Blackwoods.  I'm on the same tour, but not sure if the LC and Omnis will be under the same roof together.  Warren already shared some lovely stuff in the Omni thread, but your additional impressions would be appreciated.
  
 It's funny you say it might be a great pairing with Sabre DACs, because I'm considering a Matrix X-Sabre.  So that's good to hear.
  
 And I'll also enjoy your HD650 impressions, as well...


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> Thanks.  The only thing I'd like to hear is your impressions of the Omni with the LC (When you get it).  I suspect you'll like the pairing more then the Blackwoods.  I'm on the same tour, but not sure if the LC and Omnis will be under the same roof together.  Warren already shared some lovely stuff in the Omni thread, but your additional impressions would be appreciated.
> 
> It's funny you say it might be a great pairing with Sabre DACs, because I'm considering a Matrix X-Sabre.  So that's good to hear.
> 
> And I'll also enjoy your HD650 impressions, as well...


 
  
 I have a review unit of the Omni coming my way in a few weeks.  I believe Zach is sending me a blackwood unit.  I'm happy to give some impressions on it when it arrives.  The ZMF Blackwood with the cow hide pads pairs really well with the LC.  I expect the Omni to be even better.


----------



## DigitalFreak

evshrug said:


> Vinyl LPs... On the plus side, you don't have digitization or much change from what the mic picked up. On the other hand, LPs required maintainance on dust, LPs and needles wearing out, timing belts etc. Digital lets you shuffle your whole song collection and make anything instantly accessible without having to sort through pounds and pounds of vinyl and paper, and also ushered in a new age of editing and synthesized sounds (wub wub!).
> I can appreciate what vinyl did, but I wouldn't have nearly the music collection or time spent enjoying it if I didn't have digital music.
> 
> Either way, I Bet the LC could be used with vinyl or a DAC!




Well, when it comes to vinyl it's the feeling of nostalgia I'm feeding. I was an 80s kid and vinyl was still in fashion. 

I bet a LC would sound quite nice with some vinyl as source.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> *I think the best pairing would probably be brighter headphones and ones with a big soundstage.*  The HE-560, for instance, is wonderful with it.  The ZMF x Vibro with the new cowhide pads is on the warm side to begin with and I find the pairing with the LC to push it too far into warmth for my preferences.  But keep in mind, I prefer my sound to be slightly bright of neutral.  Someone like Tyll would probably love the Vibro pairing.
> 
> Just based on the tonality, I suspect the HD800 would pair well.  I'm not sure if it has the power to deal with the weird impedance issues tho, so I take that guess with a grain of salt.


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Recently tried the HD650 for the first time but wasn't wowed by them. Honestly didn't do much burn-in but I tried them against my HD598 on a few dacs/amps (wish I had the LC to compare them with).
  
 To my ears, the 598 had a bigger soundstage, more forward mids, and more treble extension (best word I can think to describe it). But the 650 had much better low-end, sounds more neutral, and sounded better overall. They both seemed to scale well but the 598 is more comfortable and can be driven by less powerful amps. I preferred the bigger soundstage and extra comfort of the 598 so I returned the 650.


  
 My HD598s haven't paired that well with most of my current equipment and I'm wondering if the LC might bring out its full potential. I even picked up a balanced XLR cable for them and the LC.


----------



## x RELIC x

Looking to pair the LCD-XC and JH Angie Universal primarily. 

Thank you DigitalFreak and Stillhart for the reviews. I bought completely blind but it looks like I'm in for a treat!


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately, I've never heard the 598's.  I tried snagging one on Black Friday when they were under $100, but no luck.  If they're brighter than the 650 with a bigger soundstage, which I suspect they are since they're considered good gaming cans, I think they might do well with the LC.


----------



## JK-47

digitalfreak said:


> Maybe I'm just old school but I don't think you can ever replace a good turntable with a good system behind it. Mind you, I really miss my vinyl days


 
  
  
 It's not too late to get back into the vinyl... I just did a few months ago and I do not regret it one bit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Discogs is your friend when it come down to tracking down what you want. I only buy mint or near mint and have awesome success with my purchases. Spin clean --> Ed Hunt Carbon dust brush, zero Dust stylus cleaner, and Audio Technica Disc Stabilizer, and you're good to go.
  
  
 I'm an 80's kid too, and who wouldn't want to listen to Eddy Murphy's "Party all the time" on 12" ...lol. Not a single regret buying my vinyl setup...only joy!!!


----------



## KG Jag

doctorjazz said:


> Yup, vinyl is definitely a pain in the kiester, expensive, inconvenient, no question about it. Recently refurbished my Linn, new suspension, new cartridge, new power supply, spent enough to get quite the DA converter. And I like convenience as much as the next guy do most of my listening to digital, mist of that portable (hence the Head Fi presence). But, I recently hooked my Linn/Pro-Ject tube Phono stage into a MicroZOTL2/HE-1000 with Norne Zoetic cable....manomanomanomanomanomanomanoman....


 
  
 Convenient (by today's standards--and even those from the 80's) it's not.  Even less so for 45's (and 78's).
  
 But when a well taken care of platter is put on a good system there's nothing like it.  I also miss the album covers and art that were so much a part discovering and getting into a new LP in the 60's and 70's.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Unfortunately, I've never heard the 598's.  I tried snagging one on Black Friday when they were under $100, but no luck.  If they're brighter than the 650 with a bigger soundstage, which I suspect they are since they're considered good gaming cans, I think they might do well with the LC.


 
  
 I was tempted by the Black Friday price but had already picked them up for $150 earlier in the year (had I known I'd have scooped up a pair for you at that BF price).
  
 Didn't know what to expect from my 1st fully open cans but was surprised at how comfy they were and the soundstage was immense. Spent about a week breaking them in but still couldn't get the level of bass I wanted (not too much bass though and I don't like using EQ). They performed best with my Xonar ST card but didn't pair so well with my iBasso R10 and iDSD Micro.
  
 Still, I just couldn't get part with them and hope the LC running them balanced will do the job.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> I was tempted by the Black Friday price but had already picked them up for $150 earlier in the year (had I known I'd have scooped up a pair for you at that BF price).
> 
> Didn't know what to expect from my 1st fully open cans but was surprised at how comfy they were and the soundstage was immense. Spent about a week breaking them in but still couldn't get the level of bass I wanted (not too much bass though and I don't like using EQ). They performed best with my Xonar ST card but didn't pair so well with my iBasso R10 and iDSD Micro.
> 
> Still, I just couldn't get part with them and hope the LC running them balanced will do the job.


 
  
 If you're looking to squeeze a bit more bass out of them, the LC will help a little but the right DAC might help too.  My Theta and DAC-19 both have really weighty bass.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> If you're looking to squeeze a bit more bass out of them, the LC will help a little but the right DAC might help too.  My Theta and DAC-19 both have really weighty bass.


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion. Theta balanced looks promising but I'd rather not give up higher sampling rates.
  
 May try the iDSD Micro in preamp mode and see how x-bass fares with the 598 (I can amp it with my E17 for now). Only problem is the x-bass over rca out is intended for speaker use. Can't hurt to try it though. Only need to push the 598 a little further anyway.
  
 My other cans (Z7 and PM-3, both balanced ready) shouldn't have any problem with the LC. So no big worry trying to match everything to 1 headphone.


----------



## Poimandres

Another 80's product. I never really got into records, although listened every once in awhile to my parents records from the 60's on my Fisher Studio Standard system. 

Cassette tapes are another story, I had far too many of those. I couldn't be happier to get rid of them. 

Then the early 90's hit and I received my first CD player a sony car discman, love hate relationship with that thing. It didn't work more often than it did. Then began the days of Columbia house and BMG cd ordering.

Maybe I should give vinyl another listen, I sure do wish that I still had that Fisher Studio Standard. Oh the good 'ol days.

What's a good turntable to start looking at?


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Theta balanced looks promising but I'd rather not give up higher sampling rates.
> 
> May try the iDSD Micro in preamp mode and see how x-bass fares with the 598 (I can amp it with my E17 for now). Only problem is the x-bass over rca out is intended for speaker use. Can't hurt to try it though. Only need to push the 598 a little further anyway.
> 
> My other cans (Z7 and PM-3, both balanced ready) shouldn't have any problem with the LC. So no big worry trying to match everything to 1 headphone.


 
  
 The DAC-19 does 24/192, but it may be beyond your price point.  You could probably just get the performance you want out of a better headphone for less than the cost of the DAC-19 tho.  lol


----------



## rcoleman1

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Theta balanced looks promising but I'd rather not give up higher sampling rates.
> 
> May try the iDSD Micro in preamp mode and see how x-bass fares with the 598 (I can amp it with my E17 for now). Only problem is the x-bass over rca out is intended for speaker use. Can't hurt to try it though. Only need to push the 598 a little further anyway.
> 
> My other cans (Z7 and PM-3, both balanced ready) shouldn't have any problem with the LC. So no big worry trying to match everything to 1 headphone.


 
 I have the iDSD Micro and the Sony Z7s balanced as well and I'm hoping they all match up well with the LC. It's great to see some fellow Head-Fiers with identical setups and ideas.


----------



## KG Jag

poimandres said:


> Another 80's product. I never really got into records, although listened every once in awhile to my parents records from the 60's on my Fisher Studio Standard system.
> 
> Cassette tapes are another story, I had far too many of those. I couldn't be happier to get rid of them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good entry level turntables include the Music Hall MMF 2.2, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, other entry level turntables from Pro-ject's turntable lines, Audio-Technica AT-LP120 and (for more $) Rega RP-1. 
  
 You will also need a decent phono pre-amp in most situations--even if there is a build in pre-amp with the (Audio Technica) turntable.


----------



## swspiers

Gawd, I don't miss the snap, crackle, pop of vinyl.  I might get one for nostalgia, but my LC will be fed pure digital.  I really haven't looked back since I left that stuff behind decades ago, except I am curious to hear Colour Haze on vinyl, but that's about it.


----------



## JK-47

kg jag said:


> Good entry level turntables include the Music Hall MMF 2.2, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, other entry level turntables from Pro-ject's turntable lines, Audio-Technica AT-LP120 and (for more $) Rega RP-1.
> 
> You will also need a decent phono pre-amp in most situations--even if there is a build in pre-amp with the (Audio Technica) turntable.


 

 Music Hall and Pro-Ject are both made in the same factory in the Czech Republic. A decent pre-amp is a necessity, I upgraded from a $149 unit (picked up 2 radio stations at the same time, and bad hummmm) and the change was huge (no radio stations, and almost no hummmm).
  
 I listen to a lot of FLAC's ripped properly from vinyl, and the same FLAC title ripped from CD, and vinyl wins hands down.
  
 I'm anxious to compare with the Cavelli in the chain...


----------



## Stillhart

Welp... I'm still not a fan of the HD650 with SS amps.  The dialed back treble on the LC really doesn't work well with the already-veiled HD650.  The bass is nice and beefy and the mids sound crisp and detailed, but that veiled treble with the addition of the laid back treble on the LC just drives me nuts.  I'm a drummer and when I can barely hear the hi-hat or ride cymbals, it's just unacceptable.  
  
 I plugged the HD650 back into the tube amp and it just synergizes a lot better.  I think it really needs those magical tube mids to make me forget about the veiled treble.
  
 To be clear, I don't think I've ever liked the HD650 on a single SS amp.  It only comes into its own with a nice tube amp and a really complementary tube -- but boy does it sing once you get the pairing just right!  It's just too warm/veiled for my preferences overall.


----------



## MattTCG

stillhart said:


> Welp... I'm still not a fan of the HD650 with SS amps.  The dialed back treble on the LC really doesn't work well with the already-veiled HD650.  The bass is nice and beefy and the mids sound crisp and detailed, but that veiled treble with the addition of the laid back treble on the LC just drives me nuts.  I'm a drummer and when I can barely hear the hi-hat or ride cymbals, it's just unacceptable.
> 
> I plugged the HD650 back into the tube amp and it just synergizes a lot better.  I think it really needs those magical tube mids to make me forget about the veiled treble.
> 
> To be clear, I don't think I've ever liked the HD650 on a single SS amp.  It only comes into its own with a nice tube amp and a really complementary tube -- but boy does it sing once you get the pairing just right!  It's just too warm/veiled for my preferences overall.


 
  
 Hmm...this might indicate that the LC would be very good for the hd800.


----------



## doctorjazz

Have the 650, works well for me with Ray Samuels HR-2 and MicroZOTL2 (1 solid state, 1 tubes, though the ZOTL doesn't have classic tube sound).
Again, listen to digital much mite than vinyl due to the convenience, and have fairly high end rig, but when I do listen to vinyl, still kills pretty good digital stuff I've used in SQ.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> The DAC-19 does 24/192, but it may be beyond your price point.  You could probably just get the performance you want out of a better headphone for less than the cost of the DAC-19 tho.  lol


 
  
 Found the correct specs. Thanks. Single-ended though.
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DAC1911/DAC19EN.htm
  
 I have no doubt it sounds great but do you think its worth it to buy another SE dac?
  
 I'm also keeping an eye out for Stoner Acoustics' EGD and the next Gungnir (current one is same $750 price as the DAC-19).
  
 Price isn't the biggest issue as I shouldn't being buying anything right now but therapeutic music is priceless and, if I'm gonna buy something, may as well get the best, most capable one I can.


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> Have the 650, works well for me with Ray Samuels HR-2 and MicroZOTL2 (1 solid state, 1 tubes, though the ZOTL doesn't have classic tube sound).
> Again, listen to digital much mite than vinyl due to the convenience, and have fairly high end rig, but when I do listen to vinyl, still kills pretty good digital stuff I've used in SQ.


 

 Having had tube gear for years I would agree. It takes the best from tubes and has some qualities of SS, the micro.


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> Welp... I'm still not a fan of the HD650 with SS amps.  The dialed back treble on the LC really doesn't work well with the already-veiled HD650.  The bass is nice and beefy and the mids sound crisp and detailed, but that veiled treble with the addition of the laid back treble on the LC just drives me nuts.  I'm a drummer and when I can barely hear the hi-hat or ride cymbals, it's just unacceptable.
> 
> I plugged the HD650 back into the tube amp and it just synergizes a lot better.  I think it really needs those magical tube mids to make me forget about the veiled treble.
> 
> To be clear, I don't think I've ever liked the HD650 on a single SS amp.  It only comes into its own with a nice tube amp and a really complementary tube -- but boy does it sing once you get the pairing just right!  It's just too warm/veiled for my preferences overall.


 
  
 Hmm, I would argue that the Carbon is just showing the HD 650's true nature... that of sounding vaginal unless you shove a cattle prod (i.e. a lot of power) up it's ***.


----------



## gr8soundz

Was glad to hear (from Stillhart's review; also mentioned by DecentLevi) that the LC has a touch of tube-like sound but is there any such thing as a tube DAC?
  
 Plenty of tube amps out there but it sounds like the LC will be my main amp so I'll need another way to get more tube sound.


----------



## jamato8

warrenpchi said:


> Hmm, I would argue that the Carbon is just showing the HD 650's true nature... that of sounding vaginal unless you shove a cattle prod (i.e. a lot of power) up it's ***.


 

 Now that is an  audiophile description I had not heard before.


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> Hmm, I would argue that the Carbon is just showing the HD 650's true nature... that of sounding vaginal unless you shove a cattle prod (i.e. a lot of power) up it's ***.



Wow Warren. You are making me miss my departed HD650 again.


----------



## AxelCloris

gr8soundz said:


> Was glad to hear (from Stillhart's review; also mentioned by DecentLevi) that the LC has a touch of tube-like sound but is there any such thing as a tube DAC?
> 
> Plenty of tube amps out there but it sounds like the LC will be my main amp so I'll need another way to get more tube sound.


 
  
 The Aune T1 is the first tube DAC that comes to mind. I know there are others.


----------



## warrenpchi

> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, I would argue that the Carbon is just showing the HD 650's true nature... that of sounding vaginal unless you shove a cattle prod (i.e. a lot of power) up it's ***.
> ...


 
  
 From:  http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
  
_"At this time, I’d like to acquaint you with my personal contribution to our audiophile lexicon: Vaginal. I coined this, rather inadvertently, when I first heard the Sennheiser HD 650. It was warm, dark, wet, intimate and suffocating. It was, well, vaginal. Hey buddy, if you can come up with a more all-encompassing term for this sensation; feel free to let me know – I’m all ears._
 
_The V220 dutifully lent its own warmth to the pairing. It then proceeded to evoke the HD 650’s innate vaginal qualities to a degree I have yet to experience anywhere else. Track after track, I was punished with a brutally warm and dark listening experience. The Beautiful South’s Sound of North America came through with severely rolled-off highs, splashy and indistinct upper mids, all wrapped in an oppressive warmth. Vaginal. Beck’s Morning Phase was reminiscent of an AM radio’s signature but with more pronounced bass. Again, vaginal. The Main Title from Apollo 13’s OST relented a bit with some very nice horns, but then pulled a Mr. Hyde with heavily veiled strings and a nearly total lack of air. Very vaginal. And The Trashcan Sinatras’s Should I Pray and Sarah Jarosz’s Ring Them Bells fared no better. Vaginal and vaginal._
 
_On one track, Oliver Shanti’s “Onòn Mweng” (Rainbird), the HD 650 suddenly underwent a religious conversion – trading in its veil for a full burqa. It was muffled as all heck, and the staging became incredibly tight. In doing so, it went well beyond being just vaginal, and became virginal as well. I was not amused._
 
_I’ve come to accept it by now: my time with the V220 and HD 650 was an hour of my life that I will never get back. I will have to live with that fact. But it is my hope that my experiences above will spare you the regret that I now feel. I’m getting better, day-by-day. The flashbacks are fewer and far between now. I remain hopeful of a full recovery."_


----------



## aamefford

Wow. I hope you do make full recovery. Just to clarify then - you were not enamored with the HD650 / V220 pairing?


----------



## warrenpchi

aamefford said:


> Wow. I hope you do make full recovery. Just to clarify then - you were not enamored with the HD650 / V220 pairing?


 

 Lol, no.  I have heard the HD 650 sound very different, marvelous in fact.  But that wasn't with the V220 I'm afraid.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Found the correct specs. Thanks. Single-ended though.
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DAC1911/DAC19EN.htm
> 
> I have no doubt it sounds great but do you think its worth it to buy another SE dac?
> ...


 
  
 In my honest opinion, yes I think it's worth it despite being SE.  I've been saying for a while in this thread and in the associated DAC thread that I think a good sounding SE DAC is going to work better than a just-okay balanced DAC.  The phase splitter in the LC makes it even more of a moot point IMO.  The DAC-19 sounds good and it's worth the money if you want that kind of sound.
  


gr8soundz said:


> Was glad to hear (from Stillhart's review; also mentioned by DecentLevi) that the LC has a touch of tube-like sound but is there any such thing as a tube DAC?
> 
> Plenty of tube amps out there but it sounds like the LC will be my main amp so I'll need another way to get more tube sound.


 
  
 Yeah, there a few.  The Aune T1 as mentioned.  I believe Maverick Audio also makes one.  I think all the MDHT ones are tube DACs.  
  


warrenpchi said:


> Lol, no.  I have heard the HD 650 sound very different, marvelous in fact.  But that wasn't with the V220 I'm afraid.


 
  
 I wonder what the V in V220 stands for...


----------



## doctorjazz

Have a tubed R2R DAC, Mojo Mystique, a bit more expensive than most are looking at...
Love the sound of it, but it doesn't pay well with my Peachtree GrandPre, have to get it checked out.


----------



## DigitalFreak

@Stillhart
  
 Congrats bud, your quicky review made the head-fi front page


----------



## gr8soundz

axelcloris said:


> The Aune T1 is the first tube DAC that comes to mind. I know there are others.


 


stillhart said:


> Yeah, there a few.  The Aune T1 as mentioned.  I believe Maverick Audio also makes one.  I think all the MDHT ones are tube DACs.


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Never heard of Maverick Audio but checking them out.
  
 U guys are right; there are quite a few out there. Gave up searching after the few I found only used tubes on the headphone out, not the dac section. Can't tell if the Aune T1 does that. Checking out the dac only ones now.


----------



## lukeap69

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Never heard of Maverick Audio but checking them out.
> 
> U guys are right; there are quite a few out there. Gave up searching after the few I found only used tubes on the headphone out, not the dac section. Can't tell if the Aune T1 does that. Checking out the dac only ones now.


 

 Before I've purchased my DAC-19, I have been looking at other DACs, some are tube (/buffer) like MHDT's, Monarchy Audio NM-24, Lite DACs, etc. Quite a few out there but can get pricey though even the entry level. Happy hunting!​


----------



## aamefford

Some talk of the Dac-19 in the last few posts. I'll just note that I bought one with some skepticism, and very quickly became a fan. Of note, it plays nice with the iPhone and cck.

Anyway, the dac-19 is the smallish, (trans)portable balanced Dac under $600 that I was looking for. To pair with my LC... (Tongue firmly in cheek)..


----------



## adobotj

lukeap69 said:


> Try to search Teradak Chameleon.​ Darko has a review of it and IIRC it is available via ebay.


 
 Hi Luke. Thanks for this suggestion. I will look into this!
  


evshrug said:


> An R2R Dac is a more complicated/expensive to make, so all the DACs will cost more. I got mine under $500 because I found an old one on eBay, but then I had to find a coax output to feed the DAC with music.
> 
> There's a whole separate thread for discussing DACs to try with the LC, but basically a good one will sound good with the LC. Amps that aren't garbage tend to sound much more similar than comparing headphones, so basically aim to find the headphone with the sound you like, and upgrades to the rest of the chain will make that sound slightly better.


 
 Hmm... this is an interesting approach you suggested. Never thought of it to go about this way, from headphones back to source. I have HD800, LCD2F and non F, Hifimans and Mrspeakers waiting for the LC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully the LC would bring more life to those cans and ultimately find a dac that will complement all, if not most of my headphones. Thank you!
  


stillhart said:


> Well to be clear, I actually don't like the Sabre sound much anymore.  I think it has its place with some types of music (notably very synthetic electronica and dance music), but overall I don't much like it.  I'd rather have a TI or AK or Wolfson based chip if I'm going Delta-Sigma.  My point was just that the worst things about the Sabre chip (the over-pronounced highs, the too analytical mids and the just okay bass) seem to be countered by the Cavalli house sound.  So it makes the Sabre sound less bad.  But starting with something that isn't as bad sounding to begin with is even better, you know?
> 
> 
> Currently, the only way to get a cheap R2R DAC (that's not running the Philips chip, which I've heard isn't very good) is to buy vintage off eBay or buy on the classifieds here from someone who did that already.  There are Thetas for under $400, Adcoms for under $200, etc.  You just have to really be on top of it, like any good eBay hunt.  Otherwise, the cheapest new one you can get currently is the Audio-GD DAC-19 for about $850.  It's very good as a few of us in this thread can attest.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the clarifications Stillhart. All of my DACs (DAP and DAC/AMP) are D-S. I was curious about the R2R but only really looked into it because of your preference to it. Now having read quite a bunch of articles on R2R i find it very interesting and wanting to try one out. Learning something new every time here. I will also look into those DACs that you mentioned. If i can't afford it then i will just make do of what i have at the moment or even just try the UD-301 for the meantime. I hope i could find a R2R DAC that i could afford!
  
 Thanks for all your suggestions and inputs! And sorry If i derailed the topic a bit regarding DACs. I don't know how i missed that dedicated thread about DACs+LC. My bad..


----------



## ying

stillhart said:


> Yep.  Happy to answer any specific questions that weren't addressed in the review.
> 
> 
> I think the best pairing would probably be brighter headphones and ones with a big soundstage.  The HE-560, for instance, is wonderful with it.  The ZMF x Vibro with the new cowhide pads is on the warm side to begin with and I find the pairing with the LC to push it too far into warmth for my preferences.  But keep in mind, I prefer my sound to be slightly bright of neutral.  Someone like Tyll would probably love the Vibro pairing.
> ...


 
  
  


olor1n said:


> @Stillhart - thanks for the insightful review. Your impressions have reinforced my suspicion that the LC will be a very good match for the HD800.


 
 I ask Dr. Cavalli about the pairing with the HD800, from what he said I think it is gonna be pretty good with the HD800
  
Hi . Thanks for writing.
 
The Carbon is capable of very large voltage swings at its output and is quite suitable for HD800s.
 
Regards,
 
Alex Cavalli
Cavalli Audio


----------



## ying

> Thanks for the clarifications Stillhart. All of my DACs (DAP and DAC/AMP) are D-S. I was curious about the R2R but only really looked into it because of your preference to it. Now having read quite a bunch of articles on R2R i find it very interesting and wanting to try one out. Learning something new every time here. I will also look into those DACs that you mentioned. If i can't afford it then i will just make do of what i have at the moment or even just try the UD-301 for the meantime. I hope i could find a R2R DAC that i could afford!


 
  
 The Teac UD 301 is amazing for what the price given. There aren't too many post about it on headfi, but if you look around the other forums that relate more towards the Japanese audio brands you will find a lot of good reviews and information about it. You should of got it when the rebate was still on, at $299 USD it was a steal!! I have the HD800 and I think it sounds superb for the price I got it for!


----------



## adobotj

ying said:


> The Teac UD 301 is amazing for what the price given. There aren't too many post about it on headfi, but if you look around the other forums that relate more towards the Japanese audio brands you will find a lot of good reviews and information about it. You should of got it when the rebate was still on, at $299 USD it was a steal!! I have the HD800 and I think it sounds superb for the price I got it for!


 
  
 Yeah too bad for me i can't avail of the rebate as i don't live in the states. But still, it's a very well constructed equipment with a lot of functions for the price. For me it's still quite a bargain even at it's present price. with the rebate... it's a steal!


----------



## swspiers

Slightly off topic, but half the reason I ordered the LC is because of the colorful and interesting cast of characters on this thread.  Most of you I've never run into before, despite our cummulative 100,000 posts or so.  Others are like old friends I haven't seen in a while.  Even the arguing and bickering has at least an interesting and oftimes entertaining edge to it.
  
 That alone convinced me to order it.  Just sayin'...


----------



## PATB

So, the LC does not have enough power to wake up an HD650? Even balanced?


----------



## jamato8

patb said:


> So, the LC does not have enough power to wake up an HD650? Even balanced?


 

 I would think it does. For me, the only way I have found the 650 to really sound good is balanced. To me, they are then a very different headphone.


----------



## Stillhart

patb said:


> So, the LC does not have enough power to wake up an HD650? Even balanced?


 
  
 I haven't bothered making a balanced cable for the HD650 yet.  Sorry, I should have mentioned that I only tested it in SE.


----------



## PATB

stillhart said:


> I haven't bothered making a balanced cable for the HD650 yet.  Sorry, I should have mentioned that I only tested it in SE.


 
  
 Whew!  My first foray with the HD650 was with a Rega Ear and I felt like throwing the HD650 on the wall 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I went back to head-fi to complain and I was advised to return the HD650!  I persevered and tried the HD650 with an RS HR2; better but not quite there.  A fellow head-fier loaned me a Headroom Blockhead and eureka


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> I haven't bothered making a balanced cable for the HD650 yet.  Sorry, I should have mentioned that I only tested it in SE.


 

  
  
  
 Do you by chance have a headphone you can test out balanced vs single ended?  I bet the difference could be quite significant...


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello guys, every time you guys doubt on the pairing with HD 650 and the LC amp it makes me scratch my head big time... because this is a big time pairing! I initially tried the LC amp with the Ether headphones and it went from sounding energetic, bass heavy & recessed treble, to sounding organic bass, just as much energy if not even more, and pristine details in the highs IIRC. THIS was THE PAIRING that made me put the $600 on my charge card I didn't plan on spending just to make sure I can get one before they're gone. Not only was the FR of the HD 650 pleasingly presented paired with the LC, but it gave me a euphoric 'always out of your head' sound, as if nothing was 'in my head' but each and every sound was extruded in some alien-dimension soundstage; of which the only other amp at this Head-Fi meet  that was able to give me this immense of a perception of energy and soundstage besides the LC was several multi-thousand tollar tube amps like Eddie Current's Zana Deux.
  
 Not to mention the HD 650 was only plugged in via SE. I'd be almost afraid at how good it could sound terminated balanced to the LC. And this was by FAR my favorite pairing with the LC amp after trying the Ether, HP 100 and DT 150 'cans.


----------



## swspiers

decentlevi said:


> Hello guys, every time you guys doubt on the pairing with HD 650 and the LC amp it makes me scratch my head big time...


 
 I think for my 52 year-old ears that spent WAY too much time standing next to drummers while I played bass back in the day, I need more treble than the 650 or even the 600 are voiced to provide.  I have every reason to think that if I were 20 again, I would hear no 'veil'.  We all react to frequencies differently, which leads to much fun and amusement on this forum


----------



## PATB

buttuglyjeff said:


> Do you by chance have a headphone you can test out balanced vs single ended?  I bet the difference could be quite significant...


 
  
 Some headphones do not appreciably get better when balanced.  Sony Qualia 010 and Grado RS-1 come to mind.  I doubt the HD800 or the Ether would improve either.  The HD650, on the other hand, when driven balanced especially with a balanced tube amp, is a very different headphone.


----------



## jamato8

swspiers said:


> I think for my 52 year-old ears that spent WAY too much time standing next to drummers while I played bass back in the day, I need more treble than the 650 or even the 600 are voiced to provide.  I have every reason to think that if I were 20 again, I would hear no 'veil'.  We all react to frequencies differently, which leads to much fun and amusement on this forum


 

 For me the only way to get rid of the veil and overly warm presentation of the 650 is balanced.


----------



## Stillhart

Well ****, I guess it's time to buy some connectors and build a new cable...


----------



## PATB

stillhart said:


> Well ****, I guess it's time to buy some connectors and build a new cable...


 

  Use silver.  Preferably, a Zu Mobius.
  
 EDIT:  I just checked Zu's website and their Mobius looks weird and also not available for the HD650.  I am now feeling old.


----------



## Stillhart

patb said:


> Use silver.  Preferably, a Zu Mobius.


 
  
 Sure, I'll PM you my Paypal address and you can pay for it.  Otherwise, if I spend the same amount on the silver cable as I would on a 6' Canare cable, I could make it approximately 3.6" long.  While I'm sure it would sound magnificent, I think I'd have a hard time getting the headphones on my head with only 3" of cable to each ear cup after the Y split.  If only the HD650 were single-entry!


----------



## swspiers

warrenpchi said:


> From:  http://headphone.guru/the-violectric-hpa-v220/
> 
> _"At this time, I’d like to acquaint you with my personal contribution to our audiophile lexicon: Vaginal. I coined this, rather inadvertently, when I first heard the Sennheiser HD 650. It was warm, dark, wet, intimate and suffocating. It was, well, vaginal. Hey buddy, if you can come up with a more all-encompassing term for this sensation; feel free to let me know – I’m all ears._
> 
> ...


 
 For some reason, I REALLY want to get a set of 650's now...


----------



## adobotj

What did i just buy??? *NOS DAC TDA1543 DIR9001 96kHz SPDIF Coax Optical & 9V NiMH charger. *
  
  
  

  
 Saw this selling at ebay for just 145usd + free shipping and out of sheer compulsiveness just purchased it! I guess i just really want to try out a "beginner" R2R NOS DAC (my very first one).
 I'm planning to run this from AK100ii optical > Mini TDA1543 (RCA) > LC > balanced HD800. Will give an impression from this setup once the LC arrives.
  
*Question: *Is there a way to make 2.5mm TRRS to 2xXLR 3pin??? I can't seem to find a cable like that selling anywhere as i was also planning to do AK100ii balanced to the LC.


----------



## Stillhart

adobotj said:


> What did i just buy??? *NOS DAC TDA1543 DIR9001 96kHz SPDIF Coax Optical & 9V NiMH charger. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, you can make it easily enough. Or you know, have one of the cable co's make one.  It's unusual enough that they won't stock it, but easy enough that they can just make one if you want.


----------



## mscott58

adobotj said:


> What did i just buy??? [COLOR=333333]*NOS DAC TDA1543 DIR9001 96kHz SPDIF Coax Optical & 9V NiMH charger. *[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Check eBay auction number 252002321600. Cheers


----------



## lukeap69

adobotj said:


> What did i just buy??? *NOS DAC TDA1543 DIR9001 96kHz SPDIF Coax Optical & 9V NiMH charger. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 There is a thread for this DAC in case you want to know more about it http://www.head-fi.org/t/709720/starting-point-systems-portable-nos-dac​


----------



## jamato8

lukeap69 said:


> There is a thread for this DAC in case you want to know more about it http://www.head-fi.org/t/709720/starting-point-systems-portable-nos-dac​


 
 Link doesn't work.


----------



## doctorjazz

patb said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't bothered making a balanced cable for the HD650 yet.  Sorry, I should have mentioned that I only tested it in SE.
> ...




I've run the 650 from an HR-2, was the first time I enjoyed them, felt they sounded very nice through them. Have used the MicroZOTL2, works well for them too. I'm sure balanced would improve things, but so far single ended, like them with the above amps (didn't like them out of any DAP, or out of the Geek Out Special Edition). YMMV, of course...


----------



## PATB

doctorjazz said:


> I've run the 650 from an HR-2, was the first time I enjoyed them, felt they sounded very nice through them. Have used the MicroZOTL2, works well for them too. I'm sure balanced would improve things, but so far single ended, like them with the above amps (didn't like them out of any DAP, or out of the Geek Out Special Edition). YMMV, of course...


 

 I love the HR2 and kept one for years.  Ray also modified mine over the years with new caps, etc. The HR2 worked well with the HD650, Sony Qualia 010 (especially good with the HR-2 for some reason), and all of my Grados (RS1, RS2, HF1, etc) at the time.  I have high hopes for the LC, as it might be an improved HR2 with balanced inputs and outputs!  If so, a steal at $599.


----------



## doctorjazz

Have the LC coming as well, (that's why I'm on this site), preview impressions drove me to do it (along with the devil :evil: )
HR-2 has a mother of a power supply (separate), really heavy and solid! Good piece of kit!



patb said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I love the HR2 and kept one for years.  Ray also modified mine over the years with new caps, etc. The HR2 worked well with the HD650, Sony Qualia 010 (especially good with the HR-2 for some reason), and all of my Grados (RS1, RS2, HF1, etc) at the time.  I have high hopes for the LC, as it might be an improved HR2 with balanced inputs and outputs!  If so, a steal at $599.


----------



## doctorjazz

patb said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I've run the 650 from an HR-2, was the first time I enjoyed them, felt they sounded very nice through them. Have used the MicroZOTL2, works well for them too. I'm sure balanced would improve things, but so far single ended, like them with the above amps (didn't like them out of any DAP, or out of the Geek Out Special Edition). YMMV, of course...
> ...


----------



## bearFNF

My HD650s have been in their box ever since I got the HD800's. But the Asgard 2 did wake them up back when I was actually using them.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

patb said:


> Some headphones do not appreciably get better when balanced.  Sony Qualia 010 and Grado RS-1 come to mind.  I doubt the HD800 or the Ether would improve either.  The HD650, on the other hand, when driven balanced especially with a balanced tube amp, is a very different headphone.


 
  
 I agree that any Grados would see little benefit, and maybe the Ethers as they are quite easy to drive.  But the HD800s I would argue need balanced from this amp to get proper voltage swing (and to a lesser degree the HD650)...


----------



## adobotj

mscott58 said:


> Check eBay auction number 252002321600. Cheers


 
 BINGO! Thanks scott! Exactly what i was looking for (for a long time now).
  


lukeap69 said:


> There is a thread for this DAC in case you want to know more about it http://www.head-fi.org/t/709720/starting-point-systems-portable-nos-dac​


 
 Went through that thread and I'm now VERY interested on this DAC. It seems to tame down the treble of the HD800. I'm excited to hear this with the LC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Apparently, there's a lot of reviews on this type of DAC made by that french guy that was impressed by the TDA1543 and made this project. Exciting times ahead!!!


----------



## lukeap69

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Link doesn't work.


 
 Don't know what happened there. Please try this one
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/709720/starting-point-systems-portable-nos-dac


----------



## sahmen

Any reliable guesses as to how the LC might fare with a power-hungry beast such as the Hifiman he-6? Has anybody with access to a pre-release LC had the opportunity to try the two together?  I know some of the more expensive Cavalli amps can drive the He-6 to optimal performing levels, but I would like to know how it might fare with the LC.  I have pre-ordered the LC, but I'd like to know whether I should invest in the He-6 if I have the opportunity.
  
 Any helpful input would be welcome.


----------



## Stillhart

sahmen said:


> Any reliable guesses as to how the LC might fare with a power-hungry beast such as the Hifiman he-6? Has anybody with access to a pre-release LC had the opportunity to try the two together?  I know some of the more expensive Cavalli amps can drive the He-6 to optimal performing levels, but I would like to know how it might fare with the LC.  I have pre-ordered the LC, but I'd like to know whether I should invest in the He-6 if I have the opportunity.
> 
> Any helpful input would be welcome.


 
  
 It won't be a good pairing.  The whole point of the LC is that you sacrifice the ability to drive every headphone under the sun but also lose a lot of the $$$.  It's basically designed specifically NOT to be able to drive the HE-6.


----------



## hemtmaker

Sound to me that the LC-Ether pairing needs a silver cable to bring the highs up and to tighten the bass a bit. Which cable did you use? DUM?



decentlevi said:


> Hello guys, every time you guys doubt on the pairing with HD 650 and the LC amp it makes me scratch my head big time... because this is a big time pairing! I initially tried the LC amp with the Ether headphones and it went from sounding energetic, bass heavy & recessed treble, to sounding organic bass, just as much energy if not even more, and pristine details in the highs IIRC. THIS was THE PAIRING that made me put the $600 on my charge card I didn't plan on spending just to make sure I can get one before they're gone. Not only was the FR of the HD 650 pleasingly presented paired with the LC, but it gave me a euphoric 'always out of your head' sound, as if nothing was 'in my head' but each and every sound was extruded in some alien-dimension soundstage; of which the only other amp at this Head-Fi meet  that was able to give me this immense of a perception of energy and soundstage besides the LC was several multi-thousand tollar tube amps like Eddie Current's Zana Deux.
> 
> Not to mention the HD 650 was only plugged in via SE. I'd be almost afraid at how good it could sound terminated balanced to the LC. And this was by FAR my favorite pairing with the LC amp after trying the Ether, HP 100 and DT 150 'cans.


----------



## warrenpchi

hemtmaker said:


> Sound to me that the LC-Ether pairing needs a silver cable to bring the highs up and to tighten the bass a bit. Which cable did you use? DUM?


 
  
 I wouldn't say that at all.  The Carbon and ETHER make a fine pairing, one of my favorites in fact.  And yes, DUM cable here.


----------



## MattTCG

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't say that at all.  The Carbon and ETHER make a fine pairing, one of my favorites in fact.  And yes, DUM cable here.


 
  
 +1 This was the star of the show for me at the Nashville meet.


----------



## Lupino

Does anyone have any idea how the LC might pair with HD700 phones versus the Gustard H10 which I currently own? The phones are being shipped 
 so I haven't them yet with the H10 either
 Thanks...


----------



## Stillhart

lupino said:


> Does anyone have any idea how the LC might pair with HD700 phones versus the Gustard H10 which I currently own? The phones are being shipped
> so I haven't them yet with the H10 either
> Thanks...


 
  
 The HD700's biggest problem for me was the treble spike.  I suspect the tamed treble on the LC will complement it well.  It should also have a field day with the nicer bass and wonderful sound stage.  Probably a great pairing if you can deal with the treble.


----------



## gr8soundz

mscott58 said:


> Check eBay auction number 252002321600. Cheers


 
  
 Thanks for the info but the dual xlr is female. LC needs male inputs. I think the adapter might be for a headphone cabled with dual 3-pin xlr to go balanced 2.5mm.
  
 Cable might work in both directions but you'll need some xlr gender changers.
  
 Also, in the other Cavalli thread you mentioned grounding to the 3.5mm on the source end (per Alex's recommendation). Is it as simple as connecting a 3.5mm cable along with the 2.5mm to dual xlr?


----------



## Cardiiiii

Any thoughts on LC-LCD-2 w F combo?


----------



## ExistentialEAR

I tried wiring a cable for my LCD-2 bamboos (love that phrasing) to wire solder new jacks... I bought new cables.


----------



## aarontyson

Guys please understand if you don't run a balanced out your leaving half of the power in the amp. So you Will get a better sound if you run balanced.. It equals more power which some headphones need too sound there best. When I tried out my he-400i on it SE, I had too turn up the volume too max too get any good volume. But this was at Axpona 2015 in a very crowded and noisy room too. If you have the hd600/650's with a balanced connection it will sound just fine if not blow your ears off, running above 2000mw balanced.


----------



## adobotj

gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for the info but the dual xlr is female. LC needs male inputs. I think the adapter might be for a headphone cabled with dual 3-pin xlr to go balanced 2.5mm.
> 
> Cable might work in both directions but you'll need some xlr gender changers.


 
  
 Thanks for this info as well. Talked with the seller and said they can make a male version of this cable for me, so all is well now


----------



## xuan87

Just FYI, I was surfing Lunashop just now, looking for DC power plugs (which they don't have) but came across alot of different variations of balanced adapters.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Anybody have any experience buying from Lunashop? Their cables any good?


----------



## DVass13

cardiiiii said:


> Anybody have any experience buying from Lunashop? Their cables any good?


 
  
 I made my first purchase from Lunashop a little over a month ago. I bought a 3.5mm TRRS connector to use with my Geek Out V2 (that will eventually come in... I hope). It took about a month to ship, but it arrived last week. So aside from the long wait time, no issues for me. No experience with their cables, though.


----------



## aqsw

aarontyson said:


> Guys please understand if you don't run a balanced out your leaving half of the power in the amp. So you Will get a better sound if you run balanced.. It equals more power which some headphones need too sound there best. When I tried out my he-400i on it SE, I had too turn up the volume too max too get any good volume. But this was at Axpona 2015 in a very crowded and noisy room too. If you have the hd600/650's with a balanced connection it will sound just fine if not blow your ears off, running above 2000mw balanced.




The way I understand it is rca or balanced in is about the same ( my dac recommends balanced throughout, so that's what im doing). Balanced out gives full power. Single ended out gives about 50%. Planars love the extra power. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## x RELIC x

aqsw said:


> The way I understand it is rca or balanced in is about the same ( my dac recommends balanced throughout, so that's what im doing). Balanced out gives full power. Single ended out gives about 50%. Planars love the extra power. Correct me if I'm wrong.




The phase splitter on the input takes SE and feeds the amp a balanced signal. So power output through balanced will be the same whether using SE or Balanced input. The only question is how good is the phase splitter for common ground noise rejection. Reports I've seen are that there is no audible difference noted so far, but of course this is from a limited amount of people reporting on a limited amount of source gear.


----------



## DigitalFreak

Check it out guys, I ordered my Ether with a balanced DUM cable so I needed an adapter to use it SE with my WA6. Moon Audio does some nice work


----------



## sathyam

This is an Ultrashort XLR => 6.3mm Adapter from DHC. It provides the shortest path
  
  

  
 Here are two more Ultrashort adapters (AK->RSA & AK->3.5 Balanced) for AK 2.5 balance plugs
  
 Peter at DHC should be able to create one of these adapters for any type of connection. I even have a pair of adapters for using an Abyss terminated cable for HE-1000.


----------



## digitalzed

digitalfreak said:


> Check it out guys, I ordered my Ether with a balanced DUM cable so I needed an adapter to use it SE with my WA6. Moon Audio does some nice work



Nice. Drew does great work and is very responsive.


----------



## DigitalFreak

sathyam said:


> This is an Ultrashort XLR => 6.3mm Adapter from DHC. It provides the shortest path
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh man, I wish I had known about that first connector 


digitalzed said:


> Nice. Drew does great work and is very responsive.


 
 Yeah agreed, I placed my order and had my purchase in my hands in only 4 or 5 days. 
  
 I still have to get one last thing, a second pair of Green Line RCAs, and I'll have everything ready. All that's left to do is wait for the Ether and Carbon to arrive


----------



## aarontyson

aqsw said:


> The way I understand it is rca or balanced in is about the same ( my dac recommends balanced throughout, so that's what im doing). Balanced out gives full power. Single ended out gives about 50%. Planars love the extra power. Correct me if I'm wrong.


 
 Yes that's my point. If you read other previous post most still don't understand the toplogy of this amp. Inputs either RCA or XLR balanced you will always get a balanced INPUT.
 The limitation of the amp, depending upon your view, is the type of OUTPUT your going to use. Single Ended (SE) will give you half of the amps power. Balanced (XLR) will give you full power. I think Alex said full power is above 2000mw @ 50r. However the website has the amp listed as "Approximately 1.5W into 50R from Balanced Out".. Later Alex added more power, which will be just above 2000mw. This is something that hard to drive planars are going to need. For Cavalli to sell these amps he will need to appeal too that higher impedance market.


----------



## Stillhart

Here's the one I made to match the cable I made for my HE-560.  Big XLR connector and big TRS connector are easy mode soldering.  Probably cost $10 and an hour to make.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I really gotta learn how to solder one of these days and save myself some money.
 I'm guessing quietly soldering way in ones room with mellow tunes playing might also be therapeutic.


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> Here's the one I made to match the cable I made for my HE-560.  Big XLR connector and big TRS connector are easy mode soldering.  Probably cost $10 and an hour to make.




Looks very good and professional!


----------



## xuan87

stillhart said:


> Here's the one I made to match the cable I made for my HE-560.  Big XLR connector and big TRS connector are easy mode soldering.  Probably cost $10 and an hour to make.


 
  
 Did you use paracord to wrap each individual wire?


----------



## rcoleman1

digitalfreak said:


> I really gotta learn how to solder one of these days and save myself some money.
> I'm guessing quietly soldering way in ones room with mellow tunes playing might also be therapeutic.


 

 Same here. I gotta learn this stuff. We all need adapters of some sort and custom stuff gets expensive.


----------



## BucketInABucket

digitalfreak said:


> I really gotta learn how to solder one of these days and save myself some money.
> I'm guessing quietly soldering way in ones room with mellow tunes playing might also be therapeutic.







rcoleman1 said:


> Same here. I gotta learn this stuff. We all need adapters of some sort and custom stuff gets expensive.



Buy some cheapo connectors and wire on ebay to practice first and string+youtube can help practice braiding. Its easy to get into, fun and saves money!


----------



## doctorjazz

Not for the 10 thumbed among us...I had to solder new tweeter and midrange on my Thiel CS3.6, almost wound up with my thumb permanently attached to the speaker!


----------



## DigitalFreak

I keep seeing myself soldering something only to have it blow up when I plug it in lol


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> I keep seeing myself soldering something only to have it blow up when I plug it in lol


 
  
 That's why you should have a tester too....


----------



## Evshrug

^You mean, someone else to plug it in for you? Lol


----------



## lukeap69

evshrug said:


> ^You mean, someone else to plug it in for you? Lol


 
 Tester...


----------



## doctorjazz

I think my tweeter actually sounds better with the bit of skin I left on it! A bit more fleshed out, more BODY!


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> I really gotta learn how to solder one of these days and save myself some money.
> I'm guessing quietly soldering way in ones room with mellow tunes playing might also be therapeutic.


 
  
 That's actually one of the main reasons I got into DIY.  I wanted a hobby that I could do while listening to my headphones so I wouldn't spend all my time on here looking for new gear.  The fact that it saves you a lot of money in the long run is a nice little bonus.
  


xuan87 said:


> Did you use paracord to wrap each individual wire?


 
  
 Yes indeed.
  


rcoleman1 said:


> Same here. I gotta learn this stuff. We all need adapters of some sort and custom stuff gets expensive.


 
  
 I actually started writing a column about how I got into DIY with some (hopefully) helpful instructions on how others can get started.  I've posted that stuff over on my personal blog, which I'll be filling in more over time.  The blog just went up so it's really sparse ATM so I haven't really "launched" it yet.  But if anyone is interested, feel free to PM me for a sneak peek.
  
 And obviously I'm happy to give any help here to folks looking to get started making their own cables.  It's really not that hard.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Speaking of DiY, I re-terminated a pair of headphones with 4-pin XLR in preparation for the LC then realized I have no balanced amps to use it with but I didn't want to swap the cable back so I instead made an adapter to use for now!


----------



## MattTCG

I wondered if Dr. Cavalli could chime and let us know what the release date looks like.
  
 thanks...


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> Here's the one I made to match the cable I made for my HE-560.  Big XLR connector and big TRS connector are easy mode soldering.  Probably cost $10 and an hour to make.


 
  
  
 Looks solid. Wonder how much one of the cable shops would cost to make the same thing?


----------



## bflat

elwappo99 said:


> Looks solid. Wonder how much one of the cable shops would cost to make the same thing?


 

 The cabled adapters go for about $50. As you can imagine, it's 90% labor cost and a shop can make one of those is under 20 min since they have the skill and specialized tools. The toughest part is that most shops will quote you around 4 weeks since they are so back logged. I've done some DIY change of terminations but mostly due to not wanting to wait. On that note, anything with Cardas wire is a PITA to solder with that enamel coating.


----------



## elwappo99

bflat said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks solid. Wonder how much one of the cable shops would cost to make the same thing?
> ...


 
  
 I thought $50 was rather reasonable. 
  
 Just checked DHC charges $90 - $100


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> I thought $50 was rather reasonable.
> 
> Just checked DHC charges $90 - $100


 
  
 There are plenty of members who will do connectors and such for a small fee.  @cCasper TFG makes some really nice stuff.  No idea what he charges or if he's currently taking orders, but might be worth checking if you think the big shops are overpriced and it's too much to do on your own.


----------



## BucketInABucket

stillhart said:


> There are plenty of members who will do connectors and such for a small fee.  @cCasper TFG makes some really nice stuff.  No idea what he charges or if he's currently taking orders, but might be worth checking if you think the big shops are overpriced and it's too much to do on your own.


 
 I would be happy to tbh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but idk about the quality of my stuff


----------



## jamato8

The thing is a lot of 1/4 plugs aren't that good. Many are magnetic either because of the plating or the central pin. Almost all 2.5 TRS are magnetic. So it is important to find out. I use Furutech as they are very high quality, totally non magnetic and are one of the best in the signal path but they are expensive. The least expensive one I will use is their second from the top of the line, which can be found on Amazon for 33 dollars and most places charge 10 to 15 more dollars more than that. Then the wire and labor and you can see where a good quality adapter will get up there. 
  
 and I have a Vampire 1/4 that I have had for a few years. Not cheap and supposed to be very good. Totally magnetic. You can't always trust the supposed "quality" brands.


----------



## x RELIC x

jamato8 said:


> The thing is a lot of 1/4 plugs aren't that good. Many are magnetic either because of the plating or the central pin. Almost all 2.5 TRS are magnetic. So it is important to find out. I use Furutech as they are very high quality, totally non magnetic and are one of the best in the signal path but they are expensive. The least expensive one I will use is their second from the top of the line, which can be found on Amazon for 33 dollars and most places charge 10 to 15 more dollars more than that. Then the wire and labor and you can see where a good quality adapter will get up there.




Can you explain, in detail, how being magnetic is a negative for cable plugs.


----------



## jamato8

x relic x said:


> Can you explain, in detail, how being magnetic is a negative for cable plugs.


 

 There is a lot of info on the web. Why pay good money for high purity copper or silver just to have your signal then go through a ferrous metal or a magnetic field. Think about how electrons travel, what can induce an electrical field and it is pretty obvious.


----------



## Stillhart

jamato8 said:


> There is a lot of info on the web. Why pay good money for high purity copper or silver just to have your signal then go through a ferrous metal or a magnetic field. Think about how electrons travel, what can induce an electrical field and it is pretty obvious.


 
  
 Can you link some of the more credible info?


----------



## DigitalFreak

Holy freaking crap!!!! 2895 USD for a set of RCA cables!!! I knew Marrow peddled some very pricey cabling but never knew it got that pricey?!?! That's up there with Cardas?!?!
  
 http://morrowaudio.com/audiophile-and-home-theater/interconnects/elite-grand-reference


----------



## DigitalFreak

Hey Dan!!!! Me and you are in the wrong line of work!!!!


----------



## x RELIC x

jamato8 said:


> There is a lot of info on the web. Why pay good money for high purity copper or silver just to have your signal then go through a ferrous metal or a magnetic field. Think about how electrons travel, what can induce an electrical field and it is pretty obvious.




I would respond, what can induce a magnetic field? 

Not trying to be argumentative but my take is the two are not mutually exclusive and it's not like introducing a new signal to the mix like EMI from a cellular signal, or issues from an electrical ground loop. I think that the abundance of wifi signals around our homes would be more harmful to the signal (which is really a non-issue) than any magnetism inherent in the wire or connectors. That's why I asked, genuinely, if you could explain it. If for 'ultimate in clean' is where your answer lies then so be it, I'm just curious.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> I would respond, what can induce a magnetic field?
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative but my take is the two are not mutually exclusive and it's not like introducing a new signal to the mix like EMI from a cellular signal, or issues from an electrical ground loop. I think that the abundance of wifi signals around our homes would be more harmful to the signal (which is really a non-issue) than any magnetism inherent in the wire or connectors. That's why I asked, genuinely, if you could explain it. If for 'ultimate in clean' is where your answer lies then so be it, I'm just curious.


 
 Right there with you Relic. Doesn't any flow of electrons form a certain amount of magnetic field?


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> Holy freaking crap!!!! 2895 USD for a set of RCA cables!!! I knew Marrow peddled some very pricey cabling but never knew it got that pricey?!?! That's up there with Cardas?!?!
> 
> http://morrowaudio.com/audiophile-and-home-theater/interconnects/elite-grand-reference


 
  
 You know, I spent some time at one point trying to figure out what was the magic sauce in $500 USB cables and I couldn't find any good info.  I'd love to be able to make some of these crazy cables, but it seems the magic is secret.  Since I'm not willing to go back to school for an EE degree, I guess I'll stick with my day job.  lol


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> Right there with you Relic. Doesn't any flow of electrons form a certain amount of magnetic field?







Spoiler: Off Topic



Well, yes and any magnet moving near a conductive surface will induce an electrical current. I'm no EE, but I do like the theory behind magnetism and electricity. The funny thing is, if you want to make any physicist really sweat just ask them the mechanism of how magnetism works. No one REALLY knows. I've also recently seen some wild plasma experiments that shatter our current belief of magnetism....... but like I said, waaaaay off topic.




Back on topic, I'm pretty sure I'll be getting the Audio-GD DAC-19 or the NFB1-DAC for the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## ExistentialEAR

ARE THE INTELLECTUALS TEASING THE DOE OR THE DOE TEASING THE INTELLECTUALS? nUETRAL MAN.


----------



## rcoleman1

digitalfreak said:


> Holy freaking crap!!!! 2895 USD for a set of RCA cables!!! I knew Marrow peddled some very pricey cabling but never knew it got that pricey?!?! That's up there with Cardas?!?!
> 
> http://morrowaudio.com/audiophile-and-home-theater/interconnects/elite-grand-reference


 

 I guess there's a limit to what I'm willing to spend for good sound after all. GEESH! Lol


----------



## lukeap69

x relic x said:


> Spoiler: Off Topic
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have both DACs and prefer the DAC-19 because of the naturalness of the tone/timbre and better bass definition (yes - I did an unscientific comparison) but my NFB-1DAC is not going anywhere soon. It is still a very good DAC.


----------



## doctorjazz

rcoleman1 said:


> digitalfreak said:
> 
> 
> > Holy freaking crap!!!! 2895 USD for a set of RCA cables!!! I knew Marrow peddled some very pricey cabling but never knew it got that pricey?!?! That's up there with Cardas?!?!
> ...




They do have less expensive (though not inexpensive) models, but, WOW!


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> They do have less expensive (though not inexpensive) models, but, WOW!




If those give you heartburn then whatever you do please don't look up Siltech's Triple Crown IC...


----------



## doctorjazz

I have heard good interconnects, they do make a difference. However, I put these in the same category as 100k loudspeakers...they may sound incredible, but I ain't ever going to own em'


----------



## Pirakaphile

doctorjazz said:


> I have heard good interconnects, they do make a difference. However, I put these in the same category as 100k loudspeakers...they may sound incredible, but I ain't ever going to own em'


 
 And you can get pretty damn close to TOTL with 'mid-fi' equipment and companies that strive to get the best bang-for-the-buck. You don't need to own em!


----------



## kljash

matttcg said:


> I wondered if Dr. Cavalli could chime and let us know what the release date looks like.
> 
> thanks...


 
 +1 how are things looking?


----------



## nanoevil

mscott58 said:


> If those give you heartburn then whatever you do please don't look up Siltech's Triple Crown IC...


 
 The connectors on those look baller! the swag and price...they killing it


----------



## pippen99

kljash said:


> +1 how are things looking?


 
 ++​1 Please tell me I will be taking my new LC to the Nashville fall meet on 9/26.


----------



## d1sturb3d

from the other thread
  


runeight said:


> Hey guys, please remember that we have been saying mid to end of August. ATM this still seems good, but things can change. And it is true that they all can't go out on the same day, hard as we might try.


----------



## x RELIC x

They just need more flying monkeys to deliver them all at once.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ +1 for more flying monkeys.


----------



## Stillhart

FYI, my parts for the balanced HD650 cable came in today  I'll try to get something whipped up for testing within the next day or two.  Otherwise, it won't be until next week as my work room is also the guest room and I have guests coming in.
  
 Ooooh, the suspense!!


----------



## jjacq

Every time I see this thread having replies I feel the suspense lol.


----------



## DigitalFreak

My last pair of RCA cables are on their way. The rig is pretty much complete. All that's left is to wait for the two stars of the show, the Ether and Carbon.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> My last pair of RCA cables are on their way. The rig is pretty much complete. All that's left is to wait for the two stars of the show, the Ether and Carbon.




I think my next headphone will be the Ether, especially with all the praise paired with the Liquid Carbon


----------



## Jeff Y

I'm hanging out in this thread just because I am considering getting one if the batch of 500 LC is not final but one headphone came to mind that has not been mentioned on this thread before (probably).
  
 Has anyone considered/imagined/tried/thought about using the LC with Enigma Acoustics's Dharma? I'm sure not many people have gotten their hands on one yet because it came out lately but I just wonder what the electrostatic and dynamic driver hybrid can do. It's supposed to be plugged into normal amps unlike Stax or Kingsound which need energizers and whatnot.
  
 Perhaps it'll sound too smooth in the treble region because of the electrostatic driver but who knows?
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## DigitalFreak

jeff y said:


> I'm hanging out in this thread just because I am considering getting one if the batch of 500 LC is not final but one headphone came to mind that has not been mentioned on this thread before (probably).
> 
> Has anyone considered/imagined/tried/thought about using the LC with Enigma Acoustics's Dharma? I'm sure not many people have gotten their hands on one yet because it came out lately but I just wonder what the electrostatic and dynamic driver hybrid can do. It's supposed to be plugged into normal amps unlike Stax or Kingsound which need energizers and whatnot.
> 
> ...




You know, I wouldn't mind finding out the answer to that question myself. It's certainly something to look into in future. Maybe someone could try the pairing out at a head-fi meet and report back?


----------



## Stillhart

jeff y said:


> I'm hanging out in this thread just because I am considering getting one if the batch of 500 LC is not final but one headphone came to mind that has not been mentioned on this thread before (probably).
> 
> Has anyone considered/imagined/tried/thought about using the LC with Enigma Acoustics's Dharma? I'm sure not many people have gotten their hands on one yet because it came out lately but I just wonder what the electrostatic and dynamic driver hybrid can do. It's supposed to be plugged into normal amps unlike Stax or Kingsound which need energizers and whatnot.
> 
> ...


 
 The Dharma isn't out yet.  Last I heard, there were exactly two pre-production units in existence going to the different shows.  I heard them at Canjam and it was my favorite headphone of the show (including the Ether and HE-1000).  The HEK and Ether are definitely good, probably better than the Dharma technically, but the Dharma gave me that _fizzing sensation that James May talks about._  Heck yes, I'd love to hear it with the Ether, but who knows when that will happen.

 If the stars align, @AxelCloris may get a chance to demo the pair this weekend.  Fingers crossed!
  
  
 So the HD650... I did some level matched (to the best of my ability with an analogue knob) A/B testing using the SE and Balanced ports of the LC.  The balanced port gave me tighter bass, a tad less veil on the highs and the usual soundstage increase.  So yes, balanced connection makes the HD650 slightly less vaginal.  It's a great headphone and opening it up slightly by going balanced is definitely a nice change.  But it's still a warm signature overall with recessed treble and that's just not for everyone.

  


Spoiler: My HD650 cable (and the PM-3 cable I made while I was at it).






  
  
 Happy to answer any more questions on the pairing.


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> The Dharma isn't out yet.  Last I heard, there were exactly two pre-production units in existence going to the different shows.  I heard them at Canjam and it was my favorite headphone of the show (including the Ether and HE-1000).  The HEK and Ether are definitely good, probably better than the Dharma technically, but the Dharma gave me that _fizzing sensation that James May talks about._  Heck yes, I'd love to hear it with the Ether, but who knows when that will happen.
> 
> 
> If the stars align, @AxelCloris
> ...




Your talking about the difference going out to the hd650 balanced, not using balanced input vs SE input from the DAC, right?


----------



## Jeff Y

stillhart said:


> The Dharma isn't out yet.  Last I heard, there were exactly two pre-production units in existence going to the different shows.  I heard them at Canjam and it was my favorite headphone of the show (including the Ether and HE-1000).  The HEK and Ether are definitely good, probably better than the Dharma technically, but the Dharma gave me that _fizzing sensation that James May talks about._  Heck yes, I'd love to hear it with the Ether, but who knows when that will happen.
> 
> If the stars align, @AxelCloris may get a chance to demo the pair this weekend.  Fingers crossed!
> 
> ...


 
 Great to hear! HD650's are my favourite headphones so I was wondering about it.
  
 BTW I think Dharma's available for order from Moon Audio (not sure) (don't think it's pre-order but it might be).
  
 I heard some people speculating that 650's not the best pairing with the LC because LC is supposed to be smooth already so the overall sound when paired with the 650 would be too smooth. Do you agree? I mean 650's are pretty warm and has recessed treble with most amps but do you think the pairing with the LC is one of the better sounding ones?


----------



## DecentLevi

x relic x said:


> Your talking about the difference going out to the hd650 balanced, not using balanced input vs SE input from the DAC, right?


 
 I can answer that question for Stillhart (Dan). Yes he's talking only about using balanced cables on the output of the LC amp, because with its' circuitry it's not really necessary to use balanced input cables into the amp.
  
 Also on the topic of HD 650, any owners may want to click here for my recent suggestions on further refining its' frequency response.


----------



## x RELIC x

decentlevi said:


> I can answer that question for Stillhart (Dan). Yes he's talking only about using balanced cables on the output of the LC amp, because with its' circuitry it's not really necessary to use balanced input cables into the amp.
> 
> Also on the topic of HD 650, any owners may want to click here for my recent suggestions on further refining its' frequency response.




That's what I though but somehow got a little cross eyed reading the post.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Your talking about the difference going out to the hd650 balanced, not using balanced input vs SE input from the DAC, right?


 
  
 Yes, sorry if it was unclear.  I wrote it a bit late at night.  It was meant as a continuation of my last post on the subject where I tested the HD650 pairing but only via SE output; some folks contended that it was worth testing it balanced because that changes things.
  


jeff y said:


> Great to hear! HD650's are my favourite headphones so I was wondering about it.
> 
> BTW I think Dharma's available for order from Moon Audio (not sure) (don't think it's pre-order but it might be).
> 
> I heard some people speculating that 650's not the best pairing with the LC because LC is supposed to be smooth already so the overall sound when paired with the 650 would be too smooth. Do you agree? I mean 650's are pretty warm and has recessed treble with most amps but do you think the pairing with the LC is one of the better sounding ones?


 
  
 Dude, I distinctly recall Moon Audio accepting preorders for the HE-1000 before the final pricing had even been announced.  The fact that they're taking preorders means absolutely nothing (other than that a lot of people don't understand the concept of time value of money).
  
 I stand by my previous evaluation of the HD650 pairing with the LC.  The LC likes bright headphones with a nice soundstage for the best pairing. The HD650 is the opposite of that, even balanced.  Of course, if you already like the sound of the HD650, you'll probably still like it a lot with the LC, but I'd highly recommend going balanced because it does sound better.


----------



## Evshrug

jamato8 said:


> There is a lot of info on the web. Why pay good money for high purity copper or silver just to have your signal then go through a ferrous metal or a magnetic field. Think about how electrons travel, what can induce an electrical field and it is pretty obvious.




Sorry to dredge up something OT, but we learned in grade school electronics about electromagnets and how current passing through any wire will create a magnetic field (stronger when looped more and more), so no iron or nickel or cobalt necessary. In fact, the plugs you mention probably have a magnetic field that is just shielded within the housing.

The magnetic fields create in headphone driver coils are far far higher gauss.


----------



## jamato8

evshrug said:


> Sorry to dredge up something OT, but we learned in grade school electronics about electromagnets and how current passing through any wire will create a magnetic field (stronger when looped more and more), so no iron or nickel or cobalt necessary. In fact, the plugs you mention probably have a magnetic field that is just shielded within the housing.
> 
> The magnetic fields create in headphone driver coils are far far higher gauss.


 

 I am talking about ferrous metals, not other magnetic fields. I know how electricity can be produced. When you have ferrous metal in the conduction path, it represents something entirely different than what brass, or bronze or copper or silver etc., presents. Many TRS plugs have a steel central pin. If you want your signal going through the left channel vial a steel pin, that is fine, I don't.


----------



## DecentLevi

I just chanced upon this other amp called the MATRIX M-Stage (new HPA-3B balanced version) and just couldn't help but notice how similar it looks to the Liquid Carbon; even in terms of output power; albeit a bit greater than the LC amp... but hey, sheer numbers don't tell the whole story! I think we would be interested to see any comparisons of the Matrix M-Stage and the Liquid Carbon amp from anybody who's ever tried both.


----------



## hemtmaker

It reminds me of my old ps2


----------



## Stillhart

decentlevi said:


> I just chanced upon this other amp called the MATRIX M-Stage (new HPA-3B balanced version) and just couldn't help but notice how similar it looks to the Liquid Carbon; even in terms of output power; albeit a bit greater than the LC amp... but hey, sheer numbers don't tell the whole story! I think we would be interested to see any comparisons of the Matrix M-Stage and the Liquid Carbon amp from anybody who's ever tried both.


 
  
 I had an M-stage HPA-1 as my first ever desktop headphone amp.  It worked well for my needs at the time.  I got rid of it when I bought the NFB-15 because I couldn't discern any difference between it and the built-in amp in the Audio-GD.  
  
 I haven't heard any of the newer revisions so I can't speak to their sound.


----------



## gr8soundz

decentlevi said:


> I just chanced upon this other amp called the MATRIX M-Stage (new HPA-3B balanced version) and just couldn't help but notice how similar it looks to the Liquid Carbon; even in terms of output power; albeit a bit greater than the LC amp... but hey, sheer numbers don't tell the whole story! I think we would be interested to see any comparisons of the Matrix M-Stage and the Liquid Carbon amp from anybody who's ever tried both.


 
  
 Uh oh.....
  
 Balanced XLR inputs but comes packaged with 2 XLR to RCA converters for single end input......


----------



## jamato8

stillhart said:


> I had an M-stage HPA-1 as my first ever desktop headphone amp.  It worked well for my needs at the time.  I got rid of it when I bought the NFB-15 because I couldn't discern any difference between it and the built-in amp in the Audio-GD.
> 
> I haven't heard any of the newer revisions so I can't speak to their sound.


 

 Interesting. Doesn't remind me of the LC, except that it is black. :^)


----------



## stuart1927

Goddammit! I just bought one of these and don't even need it! I have a schiit Valhalla 2, an emotiva dc-1 and (holy ****) a DNA stratus on order, but couldn't help myself at $599!!! Oh...and I just bought an ifi micro idsd for travelling....forgot about that. I need help guys...this hobby is getting out of control!


----------



## gr8soundz

Put the credit card down........slowly.........


----------



## doctorjazz

Sounds familiar...I resemble those remarks!
I needed another amp like I need an 11th toe...Have the MicroZOTL, Ray Samuels HR-2, a Geek Out Special Edition, a built in one in my Peachtree GrandPre preamp, expecting one if/when LH Labs ever send me my Vi Tube Infinity Special Edition or whatever they call it. 
As I often say, he with the most stuff wins in the end (the American Way). And, as I often paraphrase the great Tina Turner, "what's need got to do with it?"


----------



## aamefford

stuart1927 said:


> Goddammit! I just bought one of these and don't even need it! I have a schiit Valhalla 2, an emotiva dc-1 and (holy ****) a DNA stratus on order, but couldn't help myself at $599!!! Oh...and I just bought an ifi micro idsd for travelling....forgot about that. I need help guys...this hobby is getting out of control!


 

 Hmmmmm.  Sell the Valhalla to cover some of the iDSD.  Use the emotiva with the LC.  I can't help you with the stratus.  That thing costs more than my car is worth....


----------



## maeveth

stuart1927 said:


> Goddammit! I just bought one of these and don't even need it! I have a schiit Valhalla 2, an emotiva dc-1 and (holy ****) a DNA stratus on order, but couldn't help myself at $599!!! Oh...and I just bought an ifi micro idsd for travelling....forgot about that. I need help guys...this hobby is getting out of control!


 
 Be glad your not building speaker system too


----------



## DigitalFreak

stuart1927 said:


> Goddammit! I just bought one of these and don't even need it! I have a schiit Valhalla 2, an emotiva dc-1 and (holy ****) a DNA stratus on order, but couldn't help myself at $599!!! Oh...and I just bought an ifi micro idsd for travelling....forgot about that. I need help guys...this hobby is getting out of control!




Don't worry, a couple of years of electro shock therapy and you'll be as good as new. Be thankful your inner geek doesn't come raging out everyday. Just don't type the words Funko pop figures into Google or its all over.


----------



## stuart1927

I'm afraid I've already been there....speakers...amps...vacuum tubes....don't even get me started on those damn things!!! But....life is short and there are worse things you can blow money on!


----------



## gr8soundz

I think most of us on head-fi have been there.
  
 I joined last year after buying an iBasso R10. Then came the iDSD Micro, and Sony Z7, and the Oppo PM-3, now waiting the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Also bought a half dozen other headphones and a few dacs and amps (sent most of those back but thought about keeping them).
  
 Thankfully (or should I say unfortunately) I've run out of money. Otherwise I'd also get the ALO CDM, Sony ZX2, MrSpeakers Ether, the new Gungnir (when its announced), and a bunch of other stuff I don't absolutely need.
  
 But, like I've said before (and @stuart1927 reiterated), there are worse things.
  
 Keep in mind that most of this stuff holds its value so if you change your mind or want to upgrade (or if rehab works), you can always sell the gear. I hate going through the sales process too but at least its an option. Its not like were smoking our money away.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I always tell my girlfriend I could be spending my money on something that doesn't give back to me every day, like wallpaper or a fancy new mower that starts every time, or an expensive car! Who cares that I have $15 grand planned out for the future? At least it isn't being spent in one place!


----------



## defbear

I had an Aunt who used to say "We have all of the luxeries but none of the necessities"


----------



## aarontyson

I must have spend around $15k on an all new Home Theater and Head-fi gear in the last 2 months. Ugh! Someone Tackle me quick!


----------



## zaintachik

aarontyson said:


> I must have spend around $15k on an all new Home Theater and Head-fi gear in the last 2 months. Ugh! Someone Tackle me quick!



 


Thats a super cool man cave dude


----------



## coastal1

These posts make me very excited for the LC. Like many, I'm loving the sound of the HD650 with the Crack + Speedball. But with 2 very young kids, I'd love to put the tubes aside for a few years in favor of a transportable SS amp.

Anyone have thoughts on the HD650/LC pairing vs. the HD 650/Crack pairing (or other tube amp pairing, as tube amps are what's usually suggested for the HD650)



decentlevi said:


> Hello guys, every time you guys doubt on the pairing with HD 650 and the LC amp it makes me scratch my head big time... because this is a big time pairing! I initially tried the LC amp with the Ether headphones and it went from sounding energetic, bass heavy & recessed treble, to sounding organic bass, just as much energy if not even more, and pristine details in the highs IIRC. THIS was THE PAIRING that made me put the $600 on my charge card I didn't plan on spending just to make sure I can get one before they're gone. Not only was the FR of the HD 650 pleasingly presented paired with the LC, but it gave me a euphoric 'always out of your head' sound, as if nothing was 'in my head' but each and every sound was extruded in some alien-dimension soundstage; of which the only other amp at this Head-Fi meet  that was able to give me this immense of a perception of energy and soundstage besides the LC was several multi-thousand tollar tube amps like Eddie Current's Zana Deux.
> 
> Not to mention the HD 650 was only plugged in via SE. I'd be almost afraid at how good it could sound terminated balanced to the LC. And this was by FAR my favorite pairing with the LC amp after trying the Ether, HP 100 and DT 150 'cans.


----------



## doctorjazz

I've used the 650 with the Ray Samuels HR-2 (solid state), sounds great. Also with the MicroZOTL2, tube, but not classic tube sounding, also great...not sure why tube sound would be recommended for 650-tends much to mids, thickness, "veil", I find these amps mitigate that. YMMV, of course (think you'll be fine with LC)


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> I've used the 650 with the Ray Samuels HR-2 (solid state), sounds great. Also with the MicroZOTL2, tube, but not classic tube sounding, also great...not sure why tube sound would be recommended for 650-tends much to mids, thickness, "veil", I find these amps mitigate that. YMMV, of course (think you'll be fine with LC)


 

 I would not what is called classic tube sound, which to me is tubes done wrong, with the 650's. That would be like walking in sludge. They need clean solid power and to my ears, balanced is a big step up.


----------



## Evshrug

Well balanced results in a power increase with less crosstalk/noise, but doesn't inherently impart a FR curve change. I haven't heard either the LC or HD650, but reviews of the HD650 pretty consistently paint the picture of a warmer headphone that doesn't need extra warmth but rather something to "wake up" the treble and be extra-powerful to manage the very broad impedance changes. The LC is moderately powerful but less so than some bigger desktop amps, and from reviews so far the LC seems to impart a bit of extra warmth. Probably will sound good with the LC, but not as good as a slightly colder amp to "synergize" or compensate for the highs on the HD650.


----------



## doctorjazz

The Ray Samuels HR-2 is supposed to be "slightly warm", I have it and the 650, work well together to my ears. In fact, I was very disappointed in the 650 until I got the HR-2 to drive them; only then could I figure out why they were considered TOTL for the longest time...


----------



## forestitalia

Every hifi fan I know ordered the Cavalli LQ. So, now that we are at 500 and many more hundreds, will it start to be delivered?


----------



## AxelCloris

forestitalia said:


> Every hifi fan I know ordered the Cavalli LQ. So, now that we are at 500 and many more hundreds, will it start to be delivered?


 
  
 Ordering of the components began as soon as the first 200 sold. Delivery should begin later this month for the early buyers.


----------



## forestitalia

axelcloris said:


> Ordering of the components began as soon as the first 200 sold. Delivery should begin later this month for the early buyers.


 
 You are a very good business man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Ok, I will wait enduring as a Bonze monk, that means that  I wont eat til I have the Carbon.


----------



## Cardiiiii

axelcloris said:


> Ordering of the components began as soon as the first 200 sold. Delivery should begin later this month for the early buyers.


 
 I think the Dr said shipping should start mid-end Aug. I'm shocked these still haven't sold out.


----------



## AxelCloris

cardiiiii said:


> I think the Dr said shipping should start mid-end Aug. I'm shocked these still haven't sold out.


 

 If they don't sell out by the time shipping begins I'm sure they'll be gone shortly after. Once reviews start coming in people sitting on the fence will decide which side they want and jump.


----------



## doctorjazz

$600 may seem like a great deal on a Cavalli (and I went for it, so I obviously think so myself), but it's still not inexpensive for most shoppers. Most of them are listening out of a phone, and, if they'd spring for an amp, the Cayin C5 seems to be as high as most go, or something similar. Not being condescending, or anything (they probably look at what the audiophiles that go in for higher priced gear with amusement and disbelief for the most part), just observing the state of things out there. Selling hundreds of units by word of mouth/thread is pretty good, seems to me.


----------



## JK-47

axelcloris said:


> Ordering of the components began as soon as the first 200 sold. Delivery should begin later this month for the early buyers.


 

   I would say the first 200 sold would cover the cost for all 500 amps components or close to it...


----------



## Cardiiiii

doctorjazz said:


> $600 may seem like a great deal on a Cavalli (and I went for it, so I obviously think so myself), but it's still not inexpensive for most shoppers. Most of them are listening out of a phone, and, if they'd spring for an amp, the Cayin C5 seems to be as high as most go, or something similar. Not being condescending, or anything (they probably look at what the audiophiles that go in for higher priced gear with amusement and disbelief for the most part), just observing the state of things out there. Selling hundreds of units by word of mouth/thread is pretty good, seems to me.


 
 That's the same reason I pulled the trigger on this. A Cavalli for $600! I agree that a majority would want an Amp/DAC combo like the Fiio which is what I have right now. But I'm sure there are more than 500 people who would want a Cavalli! 500 is a tiny number!


----------



## Arnotts

cardiiiii said:


> That's the same reason I pulled the trigger on this. A Cavalli for $600! I agree that a majority would want an Amp/DAC combo like the Fiio which is what I have right now. But I'm sure there are more than 500 people who would want a Cavalli! 500 is a tiny number!


 
 Well, yeah, but for those in non-US countries the exchange rate needs to be favourable for it to remain a good deal. Ended up costing me $970 AUD including shipping. 
  
 I'm actually doubtful that it'll be appreciably better than the balanced outputs of the M-DAC, but I'm sticking with the pre-order so I can listen for myself. The re-sale value should be good enough that I can afford to have an extended in-home trial


----------



## x RELIC x

I bet there are a bunch of people waiting until the units start shipping. Not everyone wants to wait for a pre-order, but once they start shipping I think any remaining units will sell fast.


----------



## warrenpchi

jk-47 said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > Ordering of the components began as soon as the first 200 sold. Delivery should begin later this month for the early buyers.
> ...


 
  
 Hmm, I dunno about that.  I think the first 200 covered the cost of some parts, particularly those parts that had really long leads times, or non-refundable components that had to be custom-built (extrusions, custom pots, etc.).  In any case, it's nice that we didn't have to wait for the run to sell out before Cavalli started production.  That would have taken a long time.
  
  
 Regarding the Liquid Carbon's tonal balance, I gotta say that I don't get the same sense of warmth or darkness that others are hearing.  In fact, one of the things that impresses me most about the Carbon is that it's remains so transparent and neutral, while still sounding musical.
  
 Those of you who have been at this a while know that components which sound too neutral or flat also have a tendency to sound dead (yes O2, I'm looking at you).  The Carbon excels at being both neutral/balanced, and dynamic and musical, at the same time.  That's also why I chose to pair it with the ETHER, as it tends to exhibit the same characteristics.  The two pair very, very well together IMO.
  
 Anyway, my point is, I'm pretty sure that the Carbon is making HD 650s sound the way they are supposed to sound:  kinda warm at the bottom, kinda rolled-off (and thus non-fatiguing) up top.  I'm not going to get into an argument about the HD 650 being veiled or not, that never goes over well.  But yeah, I reckon that the Carbon is showing the HD 650's true nature rather than imparting any of its own coloration (because, again, it's fairly uncolored IMO).


----------



## jjacq

warrenpchi said:


>


 

 Sorry if you've answered this before but which DAC will you pair your LC with?


----------



## Cardiiiii

arnotts said:


> Well, yeah, but for those in non-US countries the exchange rate needs to be favourable for it to remain a good deal. Ended up costing me $970 AUD including shipping.
> 
> I'm actually doubtful that it'll be appreciably better than the balanced outputs of the M-DAC, but I'm sticking with the pre-order so I can listen for myself. The re-sale value should be good enough that I can afford to have an extended in-home trial


 
 When did you order yours? I ordered mine 3 weeks ago and it cost me A$942. Effing Aussie dollar. Would have cost $600 or less a year ago.


----------



## Cardiiiii

warrenpchi said:


> Hmm, I dunno about that.  I think the first 200 covered the cost of some parts, particularly those parts that had really long leads times, or non-refundable components that had to be custom-built (extrusions, custom pots, etc.).  In any case, it's nice that we didn't have to wait for the run to sell out before Cavalli started production.  That would have taken a long time.
> 
> 
> Regarding the Liquid Carbon's tonal balance, I gotta say that I don't get the same sense of warmth or darkness that others are hearing.  In fact, one of the things that impresses me most about the Carbon is that it's remains so transparent and neutral, while still sounding musical.
> ...


 
 Do you think Tidal HiFi is a good enough source to take advantage of the LC?


----------



## warrenpchi

jjacq said:


> Sorry if you've answered this before but which DAC will you pair your LC with?


 
  
 I'm not sure yet actually.  At the moment, I've got a Stello DA100 Signature spec'd out for this particular rig (AKM-based, I love AKM-based DACs).  It only does 24/96 natively, but since I'm using this almost exclusively as a TIDAL rig, I won't be missing out on anything until they go MQA.  My main rig will be an Yggdrasil > Liquid Glass rig.
  
 EDIT:  Oh, I forgot to mention the headphones.  For the Stello DA100 > Liquid Carbon rig, I'll be using an ETHER.  Like I said, the ETHER pairs extraordinarily well with the Carbon.  The Stello is there to add an even punchier dynamicism than I would otherwise get from the Carbon/ETHER alone.  For the Yggy > Glass rig, um, I can't talk about that headphone just yet.


----------



## warrenpchi

cardiiiii said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
  
 Yes, for the most part, I think so.  That's how I've been running the pre-production sample for months now, and in most cases it does just fine (as long as TIDAL doesn't drop into lossy, or I'm not listening to a particularly crap recording).
  
 That said, I have had occasion to run DSD through the Carbon... and I'd be lying if I said it didn't sound better than TIDAL.  So while I'm perfectly happy just running TIDAL, I have to admit that it can take a better source than what I am using.


----------



## Cardiiiii

warrenpchi said:


> Yes, for the most part, I think so.  That's how I've been running the pre-production sample for months now, and in most cases it does just fine (as long as TIDAL doesn't drop into lossy, or I'm not listening to a particularly crap recording).
> 
> That said, I have had occasion to run DSD through the Carbon... and I'd be lying if I said it didn't sound better than TIDAL.  So while I'm perfectly happy just running TIDAL, I have to admit that it can take a better source than what I am using.


 
 Is there a good DSD source online?


----------



## warrenpchi

cardiiiii said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, for the most part, I think so.  That's how I've been running the pre-production sample for months now, and in most cases it does just fine (as long as TIDAL doesn't drop into lossy, or I'm not listening to a particularly crap recording).
> ...


 
  
 For me, it's basically Acoustic Sounds.


----------



## money4me247

warrenpchi said:


> Regarding the Liquid Carbon's tonal balance, I gotta say that I don't get the same sense of warmth or darkness that others are hearing.  In fact, one of the things that impresses me most about the Carbon is that it's remains so transparent and neutral, while still sounding musical.
> 
> Those of you who have been at this a while know that components which sound too neutral or flat also have a tendency to sound dead (yes O2, I'm looking at you).  The Carbon excels at being both neutral/balanced, and dynamic and musical, at the same time.  That's also why I chose to pair it with the ETHER, as it tends to exhibit the same characteristics.  The two pair very, very well together IMO.
> 
> Anyway, my point is, I'm pretty sure that the Carbon is making HD 650s sound the way they are supposed to sound:  kinda warm at the bottom, kinda rolled-off (and thus non-fatiguing) up top.  I'm not going to get into an argument about the HD 650 being veiled or not, that never goes over well.  But yeah, I reckon that the Carbon is showing the HD 650's true nature rather than imparting any of its own coloration (because, again, it's fairly uncolored IMO).


 
 Perhaps it is dependent on differing backgrounds and differing reference points too. I recall you mained the WA7 for quite a while, so relative to the Fireflies, I think it may be hard to find a amplifier that sounds relatively warmer.
  
 that being said, I don't doubt your perspective that the Carbon is transparent and neutral. Your impressions are the reason I pulled the trigger on these anyways & I am quite excited to hear it for myself!


----------



## warrenpchi

money4me247 said:


> I think it may be hard to find a amplifier that sounds relatively warmer.


 
  
 You would think so, but lol, Violectric.
  


money4me247 said:


> that being said, I don't doubt your perspective that the Carbon is transparent and neutral. Your impressions are the reason I pulled the trigger on these anyways & I am quite excited to hear it for myself!


 
  
 I can hardly wait to read everyone's impressions... that's a big part of the fun that's missing from this thread.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  In the meantime...
  


Spoiler: Off-topic randomness...


----------



## x RELIC x

OT - Best puppy pic ever!


----------



## Audio Addict

doctorjazz said:


> The Ray Samuels HR-2 is supposed to be "slightly warm", I have it and the 650, work well together to my ears. In fact, I was very disappointed in the 650 until I got the HR-2 to drive them; only then could I figure out why they were considered TOTL for the longest time...




Before the planar headphone explosion, Ray voiced all his amps using the HD600


----------



## Audio Addict

warrenpchi said:


> You would think so, but lol, Violectric.
> 
> 
> I can hardly wait to read everyone's impressions... that's a big part of the fun that's missing from this thread.     In the meantime...
> ...




Good luck trying to keep up with the puppy.


----------



## doctorjazz

audio addict said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > You would think so, but lol, Violectric.
> ...




Awww, 2 cute!


----------



## bearFNF

warrenpchi said:


> In the meantime...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Off-topic randomness...



Nice picture...but first thing I thought of was, Keep the cables off the floor!!!


----------



## doctorjazz

Why? They're great for teething!


----------



## audiofrk

warrenpchi said:


> EDIT:  Oh, I forgot to mention the headphones.  .  For the Yggy > Glass rig, um, I can't talk about that headphone just yet.


 
 Damn you warren give us a hint team america, german persuasion, brittish invasion


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> Hmm, I dunno about that.  I think the first 200 covered the cost of some parts, particularly those parts that had really long leads times, or non-refundable components that had to be custom-built (extrusions, custom pots, etc.).  In any case, it's nice that we didn't have to wait for the run to sell out before Cavalli started production.  That would have taken a long time.
> 
> 
> Regarding the Liquid Carbon's tonal balance, I gotta say that I don't get the same sense of warmth or darkness that others are hearing.  In fact, one of the things that impresses me most about the Carbon is that it's remains so transparent and neutral, while still sounding musical.
> ...


 
 Bouncing back a bit - lots of activity since yesterday.  To me, the low noise floor has notes rising up out a darkness or blackness.  This is what I think makes the LC seem so engaging.  I could also see where that could make some folks feel a sense of "warmth".  Maybe.  Really good amps with a low noise floor to me make each note more distinct, and seem to me to not have the brightness that amps that are not so quiet sometimes seem to exhibit.  I'm struggling to get this into words - hopefully
  
 Wow - EDIT to finish the post - readers kind kind of grasp what I'm getting at with the above ramble.


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> *Perhaps it is dependent on differing backgrounds and differing reference points too. *I recall you mained the WA7 for quite a while, so relative to the Fireflies, I think it may be hard to find a amplifier that sounds relatively warmer.
> 
> that being said, I don't doubt your perspective that the Carbon is transparent and neutral. Your impressions are the reason I pulled the trigger on these anyways & I am quite excited to hear it for myself!


 
  
 This.  I never claimed to be an expert, I'm just reporting what I heard.  Relative to the only other SS amp I have, the NFB-28, the LC is warmer.  I have no idea if that makes it warm on an absolute level or just neutral because the NFB-28 is bright.  
  
 And again, I find the warm HD650 pairs better with a brighter amp *for my preferences.*  We all have our own preferences in sound signature.  I'm not going to say the HD650 doesn't pair wall with the LC, I'm just saying that it doesn't pair well enough *for my preferences.  *This is why I haven't been contradicting folks like @DecentLevi who clearly enjoyed the pairing.  Because we're both right for our own ears.
  
 I, too, am looking forward to reading more impressions from other folks.  Perhaps some more impressions from some lucky folks after this weekend...


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> I find the warm HD650 pairs better with a brighter amp *for my preferences.*  We all have our own preferences in sound signature.  I'm not going to say the HD650 doesn't pair wall with the LC, I'm just saying that it doesn't pair well enough *for my preferences.  *


 
  
 I definitely agree.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Here's to hoping my headphone cabkes come in on time. The site says 6-8 weeks build time, and yesterday marked the 8th week since I placed the order. Fingers crossed!


----------



## BucketInABucket

Who needs to wait when you can make 

(In case any of you are wondering what that pile of stuff is, its 18 feet of headphone wire, 3 feet of 3-core wire (for interconnects and an adapter), 3 4-pin XLR males, 1 4-pin XLR female (for an adapter), 2 3-pin XLR female and 2 males (for interconnects), 1 mini-XLR male and one female (for a K7xx balanced mod)).


----------



## Pirakaphile

bucketinabucket said:


> Who needs to wait when you can make
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If I had time to practice, equipment to practice with, and the patience to make time to get better at it, I'd be making my own stuff, but I'm in need of too many equipments!


----------



## BucketInABucket

pirakaphile said:


> If I had time to practice, equipment to practice with, and the patience to make time to get better at it, I'd be making my own stuff, but I'm in need of too many equipments!



Trust me, I've gotten quite a few burns and melted a few things in my journey so far


----------



## elwappo99

bucketinabucket said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > If I had time to practice, equipment to practice with, and the patience to make time to get better at it, I'd be making my own stuff, but I'm in need of too many equipments!
> ...


 
  
 Yes, your fingers will get burned. What wire did you select for the headphone cable?


----------



## jamato8

I use my fingers as heat sinks. lol 
  
 I have balanced TWau terminated with the Kobiconn so balanced readied to the HE1000.


----------



## BucketInABucket

elwappo99 said:


> Yes, your fingers will get burned. What wire did you select for the headphone cable?



Some kind of Denko OFHC 2x1 cable, forgot which model number exactly oops


----------



## Pirakaphile

Getting the Carbon in late August is kinda like getting a birthday present for myself. I'm really looking forward to that present. And my cable is shipping tomorrow! Everything's coming together!


----------



## Stillhart

So I know the LC made it to the Chicago meet last weekend.  I also know that someone (@Hansotek) tried the HD800 with it and really liked it.  You guys might want to check out the impressions thread for that meet.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/777139/official-chicago-august-8-2015-impression-thread


----------



## adobotj

stillhart said:


> So I know the LC made it to the Chicago meet last weekend.  I also know that someone (@Hansotek
> ) tried the HD800 with it and really liked it.  You guys might want to check out the impressions thread for that meet.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/777139/official-chicago-august-8-2015-impression-thread




Thanks stillhart!


----------



## ejong7

To those who got the Pulse and is pairing it with the Carbon
  

  
 Our future stack in all its glory.
  
 PC:  zach915m from ZMF Headphones


----------



## sujitsky

ejong7 said:


> To those who got the Pulse and is pairing it with the Carbon
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yummy!


----------



## goldendarko

Maybe I don't understand, but what exactly is the Liquid Carbon doing in that stack? The headphone ouput is coming from the other amp, and the Liquid Carbon has no DAC section. Is it just there to "hold everything down"?


----------



## rcoleman1

ejong7 said:


> To those who got the Pulse and is pairing it with the Carbon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I may be wrong but it seems that the LC shouldn't really be needed in that stack.


----------



## DecentLevi

On the right they have a Questyle amp, which reminds me of the Questyle Q192: a DAC/amp combo for about the same price as the LC. This thing has automatic impedance detection and uses a superbly implemented Wolfson DAC chip and from my thorough comparison of it to the LC amp, I noticed these two are super-comparable! I decided that the LC amp _slightly _edges out the Q192 with medium load headphones, but I preferred the Q192 when it came to low gain headphones for the superb immersive soundstage with those.


----------



## ejong7

I have no idea since I wasnt there, but I assume it may be that the person was listening to the amp section of the Pulse to compare with the Carbon?


----------



## ejong7

goldendarko said:


> Maybe I don't understand, but what exactly is the Liquid Carbon doing in that stack? The headphone ouput is coming from the other amp, and the Liquid Carbon has no DAC section. Is it just there to "hold everything down"?


 

  $599 limited (at time of post) to 500 unit item to hold everything down? That guy must have some serious dough in the pocket then!


----------



## thomson

rcoleman1 said:


> I may be wrong but it seems that the LC shouldn't really be needed in that stack.


 
  
 Not to mention that you also got a Questyle CMA800R as backup too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (just noticed it was a Q192...)
 Edit: Changed my my mind again. It really looks like a CMA800R since the Q192 should have two toggle switches on the left.


----------



## Stillhart

@AxelCloris brought a few different pieces of gear for folks to demo.  I'm not sure why that's confusing people.  lol
  
 The Geek Pulse Infinity there is acting as a DAC for the LC.  The amp in it isn't exactly the star of the show.


----------



## hemtmaker

stillhart said:


> @AxelCloris brought a few different pieces of gear for folks to demo.  I'm not sure why that's confusing people.  lol
> 
> The Geek Pulse Infinity there is acting as a DAC for the LC.  The amp in it isn't exactly the star of the show.


 
@AxelCloris, Would love to hear your impression of the LC, in comparison to the amp section inside the Pulse infinity. Cheers =)


----------



## thomson

stillhart said:


> @AxelCloris brought a few different pieces of gear for folks to demo.  I'm not sure why that's confusing people.  lol
> 
> The Geek Pulse Infinity there is acting as a DAC for the LC.  The amp in it isn't exactly the star of the show.


 

 The "confusion" for me is that since I haven't listened to either of the amps so I expected that the the amp in the Pulse (X-Fi?) was pretty good, that is on the same level as the LC and in that case, the LC would be redundant.
 However, you're saying that the LC > Pulse amp?
  
 In that case, I guess there's no confusion (and then the amp in the Pulse would be redundant instead


----------



## Poimandres

If the LC is better than the amp in the Pulse, I wouldn't consider either redundant. It is why there is s dedicated Dac thread for the LC, most people would rather spend money on a dedicated Dac than a combo unit with an inferior amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

So, seems that is the question...I'd the amp off the Pulse same/better/worse sounding than the LC? The headphone amp in combo products is often not as good as a standalone (LH is making stand alone headphone amps, in fact).


----------



## thomson

poimandres said:


> If the LC is better than the amp in the Pulse, I wouldn't consider either redundant. It is why there is s dedicated Dac thread for the LC, most people would rather spend money on a dedicated Dac than a combo unit with an inferior amp.


 

 Maybe I was not so clear but that was basically my point. I would rather spend money on a dedicated amp instead of a combo unit with an amp that I would not use. Hence:
  
 If the LC is better than the Pulse amp, the Pulse amp is "redundant" (so why pay for it?) and if the Pulse amp is better than (or equal to) the LC amp, the LC is redundant (so why not just stay with the Pulse amp).
  
 Only reason to have both (thatI can think of) is if they perform better/different with different headphones (for example low impedance and high impedance cans).


----------



## nudd

thomson said:


> Maybe I was not so clear but that was basically my point. I would rather spend money on a dedicated amp instead of a combo unit with an amp that I would not use. Hence:
> 
> If the LC is better than the Pulse amp, the Pulse amp is "redundant" (so why pay for it?) and if the Pulse amp is better than (or equal to) the LC amp, the LC is redundant (so why not just stay with the Pulse amp).
> 
> Only reason to have both (thatI can think of) is if they perform better/different with different headphones (for example low impedance and high impedance cans).


 
  
 The pulse only offers digital attenuation so the idea would be to use the lc as the analog gain or in unity gain mode to get attenuation in the analog domain.
  
 Also the Pulse headphone out is not using the funky current drive amplification of the LC.


----------



## doctorjazz

In theory, one can build combined gear that is as good or better than separates, there are advantages of shorter paths, etc. In practice, (and I know there are exceptions) separates are generally better sounding (not comparing a $100 portable amp to a $3000 amp/dac, of course), combined products are more convenient and "bang for the buck".


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> In theory, one can build combined gear that is as good or better than separates, there are advantages of shorter paths, etc. In practice, (and I know there are exceptions) separates are generally better sounding (not comparing a $100 portable amp to a $3000 amp/dac, of course), combined products are more convenient and "bang for the buck".


 
  
 This.  The Audio-GD Master-11 is supposed to be end-game material, and my NFB-28 has an amp that stands alone just fine.
  
 On the other hand, the amp in the Pulse X-fi Infinity Rainbow Sparkle Mega Ultrazord is the same one that's in the vanilla Pulse.  You could spend $1000 to upgrade and what you got was a better DAC with the same amp.  
  
 Knowing this, it's not a big stretch to assume that the amp that came in the $400 Pulse (or whatever the price is, who can tell with LHLabs) is not as good as the amp in the $600 Cavalli.  
  
*Caveat: I haven't heard any version of the Pulse first-hand yet.*


----------



## doctorjazz

I actually wasn't sure what amp they put in as they went up the upgrade ladder...seems the headphone amp is just an afterthought. I actually have the Vi Tube coming, I'd assume the same thing applies. Guess if they want to sell their tube amp, doesn't make sense to "give it for free" in the amp/dacs...


----------



## AustinValentine

stillhart said:


> So I know the LC made it to the Chicago meet last weekend.  I also know that someone (@Hansotek) tried the HD800 with it and really liked it.  You guys might want to check out the impressions thread for that meet.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/777139/official-chicago-august-8-2015-impression-thread


 
  
 Yeah, I spent some time with it there too. It was paired up with a Questyle CMA800i DAC/Amp combo and a LH Pulse X Infinity. I used an Anax-modded HD800 off another enthusiasts table, a pair of Zach's ZMF Blackwoods, and my modded* HD650s (balanced)/LFF Paradox (SE)/Oppo PM-3 (SE). Music was fairly limited as most of Axel's music was still on his NAS but there was enough available to get a pretty good demo. Here's a shortish review based on the time I spent hogging it:
  
*1. *I preferred the LC on the Questyle. I never thought I'd ever say this about a Sabre implementation but the Infinity's treble was a bit too laid back when paired with the LC. The Questyle's Wolfson implementation hit it just right. I wish I'd have been able to pair it with my Gungnir and a decent R2R DAC (like the Yggy at the other end of the room that Steve brought on a UPS to keep warmed up), but meet conditions, time, etc. etc.
  
*2.* I was expecting the amp to be a bit warmish from the impressions I've seen so far, but to me it wasn't particularly tonally colored. That's not to say it didn't have a signature or character of its own that it imparts to a unit...it does. But I wouldn't be worried about the LC making a warm rig sound gooey, syrupy, or overly romantic. At the same time, I wouldn't use the LC to tame a bright DAC or headphone. It's just not going to do that. Stock HD800 owners that are hoping for some treble relief should probably take note. Anax-modded HD800 does fine.
  
*3.* Given meet conditions and lack of access to my own test tracks and gear, I wasn't able to ascertain much about micro-detail retrieval, resolution, plankton, etc. Suffice it to say though that I didn't hear any glaring omissions or red flags. This is even with the HD800 which is the closest thing to an audio microscope available. 
  
*4.* I noted above that _from what I heard_ the LC does impart a character of its own. With each headphone I used and with both DACs, the common change from what I was used to was a dramatic improvement in macrodynamics vs what I was used to. The Paradox and HD650s are normally laid-back headphones, but the Liquid Carbon brought them both to life. The Oppo PM-3 too has a relaxed sound. A number of reviewers (including Tyll here) have even called them boring - which isn't inaccurate given their laid-back top octave and lowered 4-8k range. The LC gave the PM-3 some pep and energy. The Blackwood, which Zach tunes to be more punchy and energetic relative to LFF's laid-back sound, could be down right ******* startling out of the Liquid Carbon. In a "for those about to rock, we salute you" kind of way.
  
_Wha huh? Rewinding a sec._ Ok, breaking down what "improved macrodynamics" means in terms of the listening experience:
  
 - Everything seemed more present and impactful;
 - Large, sudden contrasts/changes in volume happen with more energy and snap;
 - Instruments hit harder when needed. Instruments, for me, happens to include the human voice as well.
  
 Lets take this from yet another angle, because I want people to get what I'm saying here: Generally, when people give their impressions of audio equipment they might talk about "bass slam." Bass slam is a type of macrodynamic expression, but only on a single tonal range/register (generally mid-bass centric). "Rumble" is another - its the feeling of macrodynamic presence coming from low-bass or sub-bass impact and presence. But _nearly every_ tonal range and type of instrument can be thought of in this manner with various levels of descriptive success. Imagine the jolt of a harmonica in a Blues Traveller or Bob Dylan Track. Or the ring of crotales cymbals on the opening of Rush's "YYZ". Or the strike of crash cymbals in the introduction to The Who's "Baba O' Reilly". Or Steve Perry's voice when he digs deep and belt out notes in his highest range. Or the opening guitar riff on Derek & the Dominos "Layla". Or just about everything on Zeppelin's "Kashmir". 
  
 I could keep going, but I'm hoping that this gets the point across.
  
 The great thing about the LC from the time I spent with it is that it only brings the powerful, prominent macrodynamics when called for. Some audio gear** does it all the time which cab make music sound shouty or "arena rock"-like. Other gear can sound punchy and aggressive as its normal character (see: the Sennheiser Amperior, for example). Neither of these are the case with the Liquid Carbon. 
  
*5.* I've never heard an amplifier in this price range or size do #4 this well. This is one of those character properties that people shell out huge money to obtain. (I'd say that powerful macrodynamics, tonal & timbral correctness, and micro-detail extraction/plankton are the big three that make people open their wallets.) I generally associate powerful macrodynamic capability with power transformer size and quality. The Schiit Ragnarok does it. I've heard balanced Dynahis do it. IIRC, it's been a while, but I'm pretty sure I've heard Krell KSA-5 Clones with elaborate separate PSUs do it. I'm not sure what voodoo Alex did to fit this kind of sound into this kind of box but I'd check him for Pym Particles and an Ant-Man suit. 
  
*TLDR:* The Cavalli Liquid Carbon is one phenomenal amplifier. He could have charged twice the price and it still would have been a good value. Anyone who preordered this is in for a treat. I didn't hear a bad pairing with any of the five headphones that I used. Get the best DAC you can budget and grin like you robbed a bank.
  
*P.S.: *When I got home, I did the only sensible thing and immediately purchased an LFF/Enigmatic Audio Enigma off of the "For Sale" forums to go with my Paradox, PM-3, and HD650. The Enigma's biggest sin of omission is its laid-back nature (a 1-4k recess). I'm betting this pairing with the Schiit [Redacted] is going to be bad ass.
  
 _____________________________________
  
 [*New model with silver drivers and good condition pads. I've modded my HD650 by removing the back damping and quarter modding the front foam. The net result of these mods is that the HD650's bass hump is pushed lower and it no longer sounds overdamped. It's still a dark, slightly laid-back headphone but it sounds a bit livelier with the mods. As a result, YMMV with regards to my impressions with the HD650.]
  
 [** For example, the Schiit Gungnir pre-USB 2.0 had that problem.]


----------



## Stillhart

austinvalentine said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the great impressions!  Your comments and Warren's make me think that my NFB-28 must just be a bright amp, with the LC being more neutral.  Also I agree that the Blackwoods sound really excellent out of the LC.  Are you using the new cowhide pads?
  
 And I'm very much looking forward to hearing the [Redacted] this weekend.  I'll try to get my LC in there to test the pairing, but since Schiit also sells amps, I'm not sure how down they'll be with that plan.  Maybe if I slip @warrenpchi a $20, he can pull some strings...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Maybe if I slip @warrenpchi a $20, he can pull some strings...


 
  
 Warren may be easy, but he's not cheap....


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> Thanks for the great impressions!  Your comments and Warren's make me think that my NFB-28 must just be a bright amp, with the LC being more neutral.  Also I agree that the Blackwoods sound really excellent out of the LC.  Are you using the new cowhide pads?
> 
> And I'm very much looking forward to hearing the [Redacted] this weekend.  I'll try to get my LC in there to test the pairing, but since Schiit also sells amps, I'm not sure how down they'll be with that plan.  Maybe if I slip @warrenpchi a $20, he can pull some strings...


 
  
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> Warren may be easy, but he's not cheap....


 
 Save the $20, slip him a vial of sodium pentathol.....


----------



## doctorjazz

So, if the LC is really strong in "macrodynamics", it might just be the ticket for some who find the HE-1000 too "laid back"...waiting to hear for myself, but psyched!


----------



## stjj89

austinvalentine said:


> _Wha huh? Rewinding a sec._ Ok, breaking down what "improved macrodynamics" means in terms of the listening experience:
> 
> - Everything seemed more present and impactful;
> - Large, sudden contrasts/changes in volume happen with more energy and snap;
> - Instruments hit harder when needed. Instruments, for me, happens to include the human voice as well.


 
  
 Spot on! This was the most impressive point of the LC for me when I listened to it at the SF head-fi meet, and eventually what made me land a pre-order. To me, "improved macrodynamics" brings my cans (TH900) more speaker-like, improving the visceral impact of the sounds I am hearing. This was one quality that I noticed the very best amplifiers at the meet (e.g. Eddie Current's offering) did very well.


----------



## mandrake50

rcoleman1 said:


> I may be wrong but it seems that the LC shouldn't really be needed in that stack.


 

 I have my Pulse Infinity sitting on top of  A Gustard H10. I have headphones plugged into both. The line outs are hot all of the time.
 It looks like they have a 1/8 to 1/4" adapter in the LC... it was likely just the point in time that the picture was taken...


----------



## BucketInABucket

Curious as to how the power supply of this amp works.


----------



## ExistentialEAR

OPAMP Headphones are class A, Speakers on other hand are AB.


----------



## DecentLevi

+1 for that last post. Unless you're aiming for high posting number status, which is murky.
  
 Just gotta give some overdue 'props to that review by @AustinValentine on the last page (link here). Possibly the best review yet, and your knowledge level / style is impressive.
  
 Also what is that word that was_ [redacted] _twice on the last page? is it Schiit's newest DAC starting with a Y? And if so, why can't we use that word? *It would be useful if somebody would explain it to us all.* (send me a PM if you can't mention it here)


----------



## runeight

Gents, here’s an update on where we are. I’ve waited a little longer than planned to be sure to have the best info.
  
 Things are moving along well, but we have decided that the first run of volume controls are not to the level of performance we want them. And so, we have ordered an entirely new set of controls. These will not be here for a few weeks yet. Our work now is to ensure that the production run keeps moving forward even though the vol pots can’t be installed on the boards immediately. We are working on this right now.
  
 I know that many of you have been waiting for some time, but it is important to us that you get a Carbon that is up to our standards. Yes, there will be a slight delay because of this. Don’t know how much yet, but hopefully not too much. As soon as we have a more solid idea of time I will post this info.


----------



## Stillhart

decentlevi said:


> +1 for that last post. Unless you're aiming for high posting number status, which is murky.
> 
> Just gotta give some overdue 'props to that review by @AustinValentine on the last page (link here). Possibly the best review yet, and your knowledge level / style is impressive.
> 
> Also what is that word that was_ [redacted] _twice on the last page? is it Schiit's newest DAC starting with a Y? And if so, why can't we use that word? *It would be useful if somebody would explain it to us all.* (send me a PM if you can't mention it here)


 
  
 It's an inside joke from the "Schiit Show" announcement thread.  People are assuming that there will be a new R2R DAC with trickle-down tech from the Yggy and they are calling it the [redacted] as a joke that people know the name and Schiit is going thru and redacting it out of posts until the official announcement.  It's a silly joke but it's easier to say "I'm hoping to pair this with the [redacted]" than "I'm hoping to pair this with the new hopefully soon-to-be-announced trickle-down Schiit R2R DAC".
   
 Quote:


runeight said:


> Gents, here’s an update on where we are. I’ve waited a little longer than planned to be sure to have the best info.
> 
> Things are moving along well, but we have decided that the first run of volume controls are not to the level of performance we want them. And so, we have ordered an entirely new set of controls. These will not be here for a few weeks yet. Our work now is to ensure that the production run keeps moving forward even though the vol pots can’t be installed on the boards immediately. We are working on this right now.
> 
> I know that many of you have been waiting for some time, but it is important to us that you get a Carbon that is up to our standards. Yes, there will be a slight delay because of this. Don’t know how much yet, but hopefully not too much. As soon as we have a more solid idea of time I will post this info.


 
  
 Thanks for the update.  I'm generally of the opinion that I'd rather wait a bit longer for a better product, so I support this decision.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Thanks for the update.  I'm generally of the opinion that I'd rather wait a bit longer for a better product, so I support this decision.


 
  
 I agree completely. It's best to have a delay that allows the product to ship in top form rather than push something unfinished simply to get it done sooner.


----------



## zaintachik

We've waited this long doc, what's a bit more.


----------



## AustinValentine

axelcloris said:


> I agree completely. It's best to have a delay that allows the product to ship in top form rather than push something unfinished simply to get it done sooner.


 
  
 Yep, +1 as well. The volume control potentiometer is a pretty critical part of the overall user experience. Definitely worth a bit of waiting to get it right.


----------



## doctorjazz

Agreed, the potentiometer is generally considered to be a big part of the final sound quality, am fine with waiting if it means an improved LC!


----------



## Superpong

runeight said:


> Gents, here’s an update on where we are. I’ve waited a little longer than planned to be sure to have the best info.
> 
> Things are moving along well, but we have decided that the first run of volume controls are not to the level of performance we want them. And so, we have ordered an entirely new set of controls. These will not be here for a few weeks yet. Our work now is to ensure that the production run keeps moving forward even though the vol pots can’t be installed on the boards immediately. We are working on this right now.
> 
> I know that many of you have been waiting for some time, but it is important to us that you get a Carbon that is up to our standards. Yes, there will be a slight delay because of this. Don’t know how much yet, but hopefully not too much. As soon as we have a more solid idea of time I will post this info.


 
  
 Understood
  
 The delay is worth waiting for.


----------



## aamefford

Now is probably a good time to throw out "Deadline Dan's Conundrum."

"Everything takes twice as long as you think it will. If you allow twice as much time, it will take four times as long."

Ok, maybe there's never a good time for that one …


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I'm thrilled....
  
 ....more time to argue over DACs


----------



## SuperU

I'm still unsure about something and if anyone can help, it would be great.
  
 I'm fine with a simple power cord but can not understand what that would be. (Meaning, I don't want a custom made cord.)
  
 Can someone post a link to a cord on Amazon.com that would work for this?
  
*And one more...*
  
 Currently, I am coming out from my Mac via USB to a Schiit Wyrd. And from the Wyrd to the Schiit Bifrost 2 via RCA. From Bifrost2 into the Asgard 2 also via RCA. 
  
 Will this also work into the Liquid Carbon - just unplug my RCA cable from my Bifrost 2 and put it into the LC or do I need something else.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

superu said:


> I'm still unsure about something and if anyone can help, it would be great.
> 
> I'm fine with a simple power cord but can not understand what that would be. (Meaning, I don't want a custom made cord.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 For a regular ol cable, this should do fine:  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5292&seq=1&format=2
  
 And yes, you should be able to just unplug the Asgard and plug into the LC instead.


----------



## buke9

Been waiting since April but I also want the best product they can produce.


----------



## SuperU

stillhart said:


> For a regular ol cable, this should do fine:  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5292&seq=1&format=2
> 
> And yes, you should be able to just unplug the Asgard and plug into the LC instead.


 
 Perfect. Thank you.
  
 Bought the cable.
  
 Now I can quite worrying whether or not I have one when the unit gets here one day. 
  
 And thanks for confirming that the RCA cable will work as well.


----------



## pippen99

buke9 said:


> Been waiting since April but I also want the best product they can produce.


 
 Really, really wanted to take this thing to the Nashville meet 9/26.  Now I am really, really nervous.


----------



## audiofrk

runeight said:


> Gents, here’s an update on where we are. I’ve waited a little longer than planned to be sure to have the best info.
> 
> Things are moving along well, but we have decided that the first run of volume controls are not to the level of performance we want them. And so, we have ordered an entirely new set of controls. These will not be here for a few weeks yet. Our work now is to ensure that the production run keeps moving forward even though the vol pots can’t be installed on the boards immediately. We are working on this right now.
> 
> I know that many of you have been waiting for some time, but it is important to us that you get a Carbon that is up to our standards. Yes, there will be a slight delay because of this. Don’t know how much yet, but hopefully not too much. As soon as we have a more solid idea of time I will post this info.




Thanks for the transparency and not waiting till the last moment to tell us about the delay


----------



## s7uart

+1, I agree with all other comments about waiting time, I'm more than happy to wait, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly.

Guys, after a bit of advice on closed back headphones to go with the LC, I'm trying to establish which ones would be a good partner to go with it, I.e taking full advantage of its balanced outs and it's sound signature. I've been looking around and I like the sound of Audeze EL8s, Sony MDR-Z7 and maybe some Alpha Dogs / Mad Dogs, I'm currently trying out some Sony MDR-Z7 at home tonight and so far I'm not impressed, they sound heavy, dull and constricted (IMO) compared to the HD800 and HD700s I've been trying recently, I know these are different ends of the headphone spectrum I.e. closed vs open. The reason why id like some closed back headphones as well as a reference open pair is so that I don't keep my good wife up of a night whilst listening to music via my headphones, I had a complaint from her last night as I was keeping her up. I'm trying to find a reasonable pair that won't cost a fortune but will be more open and spacious sounding, as close to being open but keep keeping the sound isolated as much as possible. Thanks in advance.


----------



## doctorjazz

Hey, I'm in to LH Labs, this ain't nothin'!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stillhart said:


> It's an inside joke from the "Schiit Show" announcement thread.  People are assuming that there will be a new R2R DAC with trickle-down tech from the Yggy and they are calling it the [redacted] as a joke that people know the name and Schiit is going thru and redacting it out of posts until the official announcement.  It's a silly joke but it's easier to say "I'm hoping to pair this with the [redacted]" than "I'm hoping to pair this with the new hopefully soon-to-be-announced trickle-down Schiit R2R DAC".
> 
> Thanks for the update.  I'm generally of the opinion that I'd rather wait a bit longer for a better product, so I support this decision.




Trickle down Schiit, it's not a pretty picture


----------



## rcoleman1

doctorjazz said:


> Hey, I'm in to LH Labs, this ain't nothin'!


 

 +1


----------



## audiofrk

s7uart said:


> +1, I agree with all other comments about waiting time, I'm more than happy to wait, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly.
> 
> Guys, after a bit of advice on closed back headphones to go with the LC, I'm trying to establish which ones would be a good partner to go with it, I.e taking full advantage of its balanced outs and it's sound signature. I've been looking around and I like the sound of Audeze EL8s, Sony MDR-Z7 and maybe some Alpha Dogs / Mad Dogs, I'm currently trying out some Sony MDR-Z7 at home tonight and so far I'm not impressed, they sound heavy, dull and constricted (IMO) compared to the HD800 and HD700s I've been trying recently, I know these are different ends of the headphone spectrum I.e. closed vs open. The reason why id like some closed back headphones as well as a reference open pair is so that I don't keep my good wife up of a night whilst listening to music via my headphones, I had a complaint from her last night as I was keeping her up. I'm trying to find a reasonable pair that won't cost a fortune but will be more open and spacious sounding, as close to being open but keep keeping the sound isolated as much as possible. Thanks in advance.




Enigmatic audio paradox can't recommend it enough.


----------



## buke9

pippen99 said:


> Really, really wanted to take this thing to the Nashville meet 9/26.  Now I am really, really nervous.


 
 Same here.


----------



## aamefford

s7uart said:


> +1, I agree with all other comments about waiting time, I'm more than happy to wait, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly.
> 
> Guys, after a bit of advice on closed back headphones to go with the LC, I'm trying to establish which ones would be a good partner to go with it, I.e taking full advantage of its balanced outs and it's sound signature. I've been looking around and I like the sound of Audeze EL8s, Sony MDR-Z7 and maybe some Alpha Dogs / Mad Dogs, I'm currently trying out some Sony MDR-Z7 at home tonight and so far I'm not impressed, they sound heavy, dull and constricted (IMO) compared to the HD800 and HD700s I've been trying recently, I know these are different ends of the headphone spectrum I.e. closed vs open. The reason why id like some closed back headphones as well as a reference open pair is so that I don't keep my good wife up of a night whilst listening to music via my headphones, I had a complaint from her last night as I was keeping her up. I'm trying to find a reasonable pair that won't cost a fortune but will be more open and spacious sounding, as close to being open but keep keeping the sound isolated as much as possible. Thanks in advance.


 
 I have the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime.  They are a really cool pairing.  First time I heard it at a meet, it was @jude  's demo LC.  I kinda pulled at his shirt sleeve and said something like "wow - have heard these from the LC?"  He allowed as how he had the Primes, so, yes.  Any way, I was pretty blown away.  Way different than the Ether for sure, but a killer combo.  I haven't heard any other closed cans from the LC.  It has been long enough all I can really say at this point is that I was quite impressed at the time.


----------



## Stillhart

s7uart said:


> +1, I agree with all other comments about waiting time, I'm more than happy to wait, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly.
> 
> Guys, after a bit of advice on closed back headphones to go with the LC, I'm trying to establish which ones would be a good partner to go with it, I.e taking full advantage of its balanced outs and it's sound signature. I've been looking around and I like the sound of Audeze EL8s, Sony MDR-Z7 and maybe some Alpha Dogs / Mad Dogs, I'm currently trying out some Sony MDR-Z7 at home tonight and so far I'm not impressed, they sound heavy, dull and constricted (IMO) compared to the HD800 and HD700s I've been trying recently, I know these are different ends of the headphone spectrum I.e. closed vs open. The reason why id like some closed back headphones as well as a reference open pair is so that I don't keep my good wife up of a night whilst listening to music via my headphones, I had a complaint from her last night as I was keeping her up. I'm trying to find a reasonable pair that won't cost a fortune but will be more open and spacious sounding, as close to being open but keep keeping the sound isolated as much as possible. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 The ZMF Blackwoods pair well with it and sound very spacious for a closed can.


----------



## buke9

s7uart said:


> +1, I agree with all other comments about waiting time, I'm more than happy to wait, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly.
> 
> Guys, after a bit of advice on closed back headphones to go with the LC, I'm trying to establish which ones would be a good partner to go with it, I.e taking full advantage of its balanced outs and it's sound signature. I've been looking around and I like the sound of Audeze EL8s, Sony MDR-Z7 and maybe some Alpha Dogs / Mad Dogs, I'm currently trying out some Sony MDR-Z7 at home tonight and so far I'm not impressed, they sound heavy, dull and constricted (IMO) compared to the HD800 and HD700s I've been trying recently, I know these are different ends of the headphone spectrum I.e. closed vs open. The reason why id like some closed back headphones as well as a reference open pair is so that I don't keep my good wife up of a night whilst listening to music via my headphones, I had a complaint from her last night as I was keeping her up. I'm trying to find a reasonable pair that won't cost a fortune but will be more open and spacious sounding, as close to being open but keep keeping the sound isolated as much as possible. Thanks in advance.


 
 I tried my Mad Dogs with the Carbon at the Nashville meet and ordered it when I got home. If you have the money the Alpha Primes were very nice as well. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## stjj89

s7uart said:


> +1, I agree with all other comments about waiting time, I'm more than happy to wait, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly.
> 
> Guys, after a bit of advice on closed back headphones to go with the LC, I'm trying to establish which ones would be a good partner to go with it, I.e taking full advantage of its balanced outs and it's sound signature. I've been looking around and I like the sound of Audeze EL8s, Sony MDR-Z7 and maybe some Alpha Dogs / Mad Dogs, I'm currently trying out some Sony MDR-Z7 at home tonight and so far I'm not impressed, they sound heavy, dull and constricted (IMO) compared to the HD800 and HD700s I've been trying recently, I know these are different ends of the headphone spectrum I.e. closed vs open. The reason why id like some closed back headphones as well as a reference open pair is so that I don't keep my good wife up of a night whilst listening to music via my headphones, I had a complaint from her last night as I was keeping her up. I'm trying to find a reasonable pair that won't cost a fortune but will be more open and spacious sounding, as close to being open but keep keeping the sound isolated as much as possible. Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I tried my TH900 out of the SE output of the LC at the SF head-fi meet, and it sounded great. Very dynamic and punchy. I got mine reterminated to balanced in anticipation of my LC arriving. The TH900 is wonderful, comfortable, and light, and is even better modded


----------



## aqsw

I went to a private demo of a new bluetooth speaker. I was amazed of the sound quality. I couldn't give up my creditcard number fast enough.

It is now over a year late. Im still hoping.

its a mass fidelity. (The core) if anybody is interested.

It sounded AMAZING!!! ( a year ago)

I have much more faith in the good doctor though.


----------



## sahmen

runeight said:


> Gents, here’s an update on where we are. I’ve waited a little longer than planned to be sure to have the best info.
> 
> Things are moving along well, but we have decided that the first run of volume controls are not to the level of performance we want them. And so, we have ordered an entirely new set of controls. These will not be here for a few weeks yet. Our work now is to ensure that the production run keeps moving forward even though the vol pots can’t be installed on the boards immediately. We are working on this right now.
> 
> I know that many of you have been waiting for some time, but it is important to us that you get a Carbon that is up to our standards. Yes, there will be a slight delay because of this. Don’t know how much yet, but hopefully not too much. As soon as we have a more solid idea of time I will post this info.


 
 Please count me among those who are willing to wait for the unit to be perfected before being shipped out.  Thanks for keeping us updated.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Everyone seems totally okay with waiting, BUT NOT ME! I WANT MY NEW TOY NOW!!!


----------



## warrenpchi

Just in case you guys are wondering, yes, I have heard both the old pot and the new pot.  There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, I want the new pot and won't accept anything less.


----------



## incognitodave

So "I'm OK waiting" more out of necessity than honest feelings. I still don't know what DAC I am going to pair it with. Stoopid analysis paralysis.


----------



## rcoleman1

incognitodave said:


> So "I'm OK waiting" more out of necessity than honest feelings. I still don't know what DAC I am going to pair it with. Stoopid analysis paralysis.


 
 Same here. I'm so undecided about a DAC. Decisions...decisions.


----------



## DecentLevi

Warning: awesome info. comin' at ya:
  
 The DAC Cavalli Audio was pairing the LC amp at the SF Head-Fi meet last month was the Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo -dB. This was the setup that had wowed many seasoned Head-Fi OCD'ers (plus the Ether headphones... which I found great but a tad too 'dark', and thick shielded power cables). I enjoyed this pairing also so much that it must be part of the reason I bought the LC amp the next day. While I imagine the Sabre DAC chip has great synergy with the LC amp, this DAC had a "_24 bit AKM 4396 which delivers a slightly broader spectrum and smoother sound than the previously slightly bright original SOLO_."
 Tip: remove the "-" from dB if you search for it on Google so that doesn't act as a negative search character. This sells for $599. I've found a good review of it here, and the manuf. page here.
  
 I'll share with you my other selected favorite DACs after extensive research throughout the year. And trust me, there are all solid audiophile-grade performers (prices are approximate):
  
 $200 Beresford Caiman MKII (pushes way above it's price point too)
  
 $300 Geek Out v2 or v2+
  
 $300 Music Streamer HD
  
 $300 FiiO X5 v2 (this is a DAP but you can use it as a DAC/transport)
  
 $349 Schiit Bifrost (fully upgradeable)
  
 $500 Gustard X12
  
 $599 AlgoRhythm Solo -dB _(see above)_
  
 $750 Schiit Gungnir
  
 $799 Questyle Q192 (DAC/amp combo with DAC only option)
  
 $900 (?) Audio GD NFB 11 and NFB 1
  
  
 Worth looking into:
 * Schiit Audio's reDACted R2R which may / may not be released
 * Gustard X20
 * That new ultra TOTL R2R DAC worth thousands and weighing 60kg with dozens of DAC chips (stillhart probably knows the name).


----------



## sacredgates

I have a Concero HD here waiting to pair with the LC...


----------



## DatGuy

I demand Warren's impressions on the [redacted] by dinner time Saturday so that the rest of us can pre-order and have the LC and [redacted] arrive on the same truck.


----------



## Cardiiiii

datguy said:


> I demand Warren's impressions on the [redacted] by dinner time Saturday so that the rest of us can pre-order and have the LC and [redacted] arrive on the same truck.


 
 Pretty sure whatever is being announced on Saturday will be ready for shipping the same day?


----------



## Stillhart

datguy said:


> I demand Warren's impressions on the [redacted] by dinner time Saturday so that the rest of us can pre-order and have the LC and [redacted] arrive on the same truck.


 
  
 I'm sure @warrenpchi's heard it already, you should demand his impressions NAO!!!  
  
 Barring that, I will be covering the Schiit Show for www.audio-head.com and I'll be sure to post some impressions in here.  Also the other 149 people that will be there are likely to post some impressions.  :-D


----------



## s7uart

audiofrk said:


> Enigmatic audio paradox can't recommend it enough.


 
  
  


aamefford said:


> I have the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime.  They are a really cool pairing.  First time I heard it at a meet, it was @jude  's demo LC.  I kinda pulled at his shirt sleeve and said something like "wow - have heard these from the LC?"  He allowed as how he had the Primes, so, yes.  Any way, I was pretty blown away.  Way different than the Ether for sure, but a killer combo.  I haven't heard any other closed cans from the LC.  It has been long enough all I can really say at this point is that I was quite impressed at the time.


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> The ZMF Blackwoods pair well with it and sound very spacious for a closed can.


 
  
  


buke9 said:


> I tried my Mad Dogs with the Carbon at the Nashville meet and ordered it when I got home. If you have the money the Alpha Primes were very nice as well. Just my 2 cents.


 
  
  


stjj89 said:


> I tried my TH900 out of the SE output of the LC at the SF head-fi meet, and it sounded great. Very dynamic and punchy. I got mine reterminated to balanced in anticipation of my LC arriving. The TH900 is wonderful, comfortable, and light, and is even better modded


 
  
 Hi all,
  
 Thanks for all of the recommendations / suggestions, looks like I've got plenty of reading / homework to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I think I'm going to be very busy at the London CanJam


----------



## Poimandres

The Dac in the db is not a Wolfson, the rest is correct.


----------



## doctorjazz

Think this while thread just went to "pot", heh heh heh


----------



## longbowbbs

decentlevi said:


> "_Wolfson 24 bit AKM4396 which delivers a slightly broader spectrum and smoother sound than the previously slightly bright original SOLO_."


 
 Wolfson has the 8740, 8741 and 8742.  AKM has the AKM43XX series. Two different companies. Both great DAC chip series.


----------



## reddog

aamefford said:


> I have the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime.  They are a really cool pairing.  First time I heard it at a meet, it was @jude
> 's demo LC.  I kinda pulled at his shirt sleeve and said something like "wow - have heard these from the LC?"  He allowed as how he had the Primes, so, yes.  Any way, I was pretty blown away.  Way different than the Ether for sure, but a killer combo.  I haven't heard any other closed cans from the LC.  It has been long enough all I can really say at this point is that I was quite impressed at the time.



Thanks for your impressions on the Alpha Primes and the lc. Such impressions allow me to wait longer for the lc to be released.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK well I was just quoting the specs that Headfonics listed for it. So it looks like the Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo -dB uses an AKM4396 DAC chip


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

decentlevi said:


> OK well I was just quoting the specs that Headfonics listed for it. So it looks like the Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo -dB uses an AKM4396 DAC chip


 
  
 I think the original CLAS used a Wolfson DAC chip...


----------



## AxelCloris

decentlevi said:


> On the right they have a Questyle amp, which reminds me of the Questyle Q192: a DAC/amp combo for about the same price as the LC. This thing has automatic impedance detection and uses a superbly implemented Wolfson DAC chip and from my thorough comparison of it to the LC amp, I noticed these two are super-comparable! I decided that the LC amp _slightly _edges out the Q192 with medium load headphones, but I preferred the Q192 when it came to low gain headphones for the superb immersive soundstage with those.


 


thomson said:


> Not to mention that you also got a Questyle CMA800R as backup too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know this is going back a couple of pages, but I should mention that the LC wasn't paired with the Q192 at the Chicago meet. I had the CMA800i next to the X Infinity + LPS4. The DAC in the CMA800i is the same as in their CAS192D full-size desktop DAC. They utilize different chips, so anyone who listened at my station heard the CMA800i's flagship WM8741 DAC rather than the WM8740 in the Q192.


----------



## richard51

decentlevi said:


> Warning: awesome info. comin' at ya:
> 
> The DAC Cavalli Audio was pairing the LC amp at the SF Head-Fi meet last month was the Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo -dB. This was the setup that had wowed many seasoned Head-Fi OCD'ers (plus the Ether headphones... which I found great but a tad too 'dark', and thick shielded power cables). I enjoyed this pairing also so much that it must be part of the reason I bought the LC amp the next day. While I imagine the Sabre DAC chip has great synergy with the LC amp, this DAC had a "_24 bit AKM 4396 which delivers a slightly broader spectrum and smoother sound than the previously slightly bright original SOLO_."
> Tip: remove the "-" from dB if you search for it on Google so that doesn't act as a negative search character. This sells for $599. I've found a good review of it here, and the manuf. page here.
> ...


 

 thank you for this interesting list.... How will you characterize the bushmaster  rnking in this list? i understand that is purely subjective feeling but i trust your experience hence i  am curious because i own one ?


----------



## AustinValentine

axelcloris said:


> I know this is going back a couple of pages, but I should mention that the LC wasn't paired with the Q192 at the Chicago meet. I had the CMA800i next to the X Infinity + LPS4. The DAC in the CMA800i is the same as in their CAS192D full-size desktop DAC. They utilize different chips, so anyone who listened at my station heard the CMA800i's flagship WM8741 DAC rather than the WM8740 in the Q192.


 
  
 Yep! And there's a pretty huge gap sound wise between the WM8740 and WM8741 too. This is a rare case where I've heard the same system with two different chips: two otherwise identical Gamma2 DACs with one of each chip. The unit with the WM8741 was more detailed, more tonally correct, and less grainy across the board. 
  
 The DAC in the CMA800i's is pretty similar to the DAC in the CAS192D, which is a DAC only unit ( and $2000 IIRC). I heard the CAS192D paired with a DNA Stratus and stock HD800's in the early Summer Chicago meet. Still the best I've ever heard a stock 800 sound.
  
 The CAS192D is itself pretty damn similar to the CAS192 mini though - both of which use the WM8741 chip. The Mini is a stripped down version of the original CAS192 (no DSD - 24/192 max, only one digital filter, no dual clock upsampling, no balanced output). It generally retails at around $749-799. But here's the cool part: the CAS192 mini is the exact same thing as the _Mousai MSD192_. I-fricken-dentical. And it's not just a China clone unit either, the Mousai was actually designed by Questyle.  Occasionally, it pops up for around $300 on Massdrop. I've had one for an extended demo before and its the best $300 value in DAC-only units right now. Directly competes with the Gungnir at less than half the price. The Mousai lacks the Gungnir's upgradability, multiple outputs, and balanced topology/output, but it does have a small form factor that would stack very cleanly with the LC. It's a very good option for bargain DAC hunters.
  
 I think I recommended the Mousai MSD192 before over in the Liquid Carbon DAC thread, but I don't think I gave the full explanation of why I thought it was such a great deal.  This seemed like a good time to mention that.


----------



## coastal1

decentlevi said:


> Warning: awesome info. comin' at ya:
> 
> The DAC Cavalli Audio was pairing the LC amp at the SF Head-Fi meet last month was the Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo -dB. This was the setup that had wowed many seasoned Head-Fi OCD'ers (plus the Ether headphones... which I found great but a tad too 'dark', and thick shielded power cables). I enjoyed this pairing also so much that it must be part of the reason I bought the LC amp the next day. While I imagine the Sabre DAC chip has great synergy with the LC amp, this DAC had a "_24 bit AKM 4396 which delivers a slightly broader spectrum and smoother sound than the previously slightly bright original SOLO_."
> Tip: remove the "-" from dB if you search for it on Google so that doesn't act as a negative search character. This sells for $599. I've found a good review of it here, and the manuf. page here.
> ...


 
 Thanks.  Have you heard the LC paired with the iFi Micro iDSD?


----------



## doctorjazz

Of course, lacking the balanced topography is not a small thing (I know, not needed for the LC). Should double parts (thus cost), but increase detail/decrease noise floor. The improvements are likely subtle, though...how much they're worth is a personal decision, diminishing returns and all that...


----------



## AustinValentine

doctorjazz said:


> Of course, lacking the balanced topography is not a small thing (I know, not needed for the LC). Should double parts (thus cost), but increase detail/decrease noise floor. The improvements are likely subtle, though...how much they're worth is a personal decision, diminishing returns and all that...


 
  
 Definitely. Well, I do still have the Gungnir after all and *not* the Mousai >.>  I got a great deal on the Gungnir used though so the price delta wasn't quite so large as the MSRP difference.
  
 Also when I mentioned above that the Mousai is similar to the other Questyles, I meant in general house sound and character. I'm _absolutely certain_ that the Questyle 192D and CMA800i that I heard were both better than the Mousai in technicalities (detail, dynamics, imaging, etc. etc. etc.). I wouldn't be able to ascertain how much without having them on the same desk with the same upstream and downstream gear. 
  
 At the $300 range, I haven't heard anything better than the Mousai...except possibly the Geek Out V2/V2+ (which, despite all of LH's business warts, are phenomenal sounding).


----------



## DigitalFreak

buttuglyjeff said:


> I think the original CLAS used a Wolfson DAC chip...




You are correct my good sir. You get 100 internetz for your trouble. Don't spend them all in one place


----------



## DecentLevi

richard51 said:


> thank you for this interesting list.... How will you characterize the bushmaster  rnking in this list? i understand that is purely subjective feeling but i trust your experience hence i  am curious because i own one ?


 
 Hi again Richard and everybody
  
 I actually haven't tried the Bushmaster, but from multiple reviews everybody seemed to say the Caiman MKII is like the evolution of the Bushmaster DAC (both from Beresford in the UK), and the more advanced specs match that as well. But if I had to guess I would say maybe the Bushmaster is a tie in quality to the Music Streamer HD and the Fiio X5, but not as good as the Caiman of Geek Out. I honestly think the Geek Out v2 pushes to at least the $500 point in terms of value.
  
 Also please remember that with all audio products, quality is not determined by price, so the actual order of my above list of DACs would be very different it were ordered according to which one sounds the best. (I have only heard 5 of them so I can't re-order them all for you)


----------



## incognitodave

Thanks for providing that list! Much appreciated.


----------



## richard51

decentlevi said:


> Hi again Richard and everybody
> 
> I actually haven't tried the Bushmaster, but from multiple reviews everybody seemed to say the Caiman MKII is like the evolution of the Bushmaster DAC (both from Beresford in the UK), and the more advanced specs match that as well. But if I had to guess I would say maybe the Bushmaster is a tie in quality to the Music Streamer HD and the Fiio X5, but not as good as the Caiman of Geek Out. I honestly think the Geek Out v2 pushes to at least the $500 point in terms of value.
> 
> Also please remember that with all audio products, quality is not determined by price, so the actual order of my above list of DACs would be very different it were ordered according to which one sounds the best. (I have only heard 5 of them so I can't re-order them all for you)


 

 thanks very much for your dedication and reply


----------



## buke9

I just hope it is ready for the Sept 26 Nashville meet.


----------



## defbear

coastal1 said:


> Thanks.  Have you heard the LC paired with the iFi Micro iDSD?


I have the same question.


----------



## DCDC

defbear said:


> I have the same question.




Curious here too, will be pairing iDSD micro -> LC -> LCD-X


----------



## MattTCG

The idsd micro is really impressive and needs to get more attention. The form factor is near perfect for the Carbon and would make a great portable rig. The dual Burr Brown is excellently implemented on the micro.


----------



## stuart1927

I'll second that. I just bought one and I'm blown away by it. Really superb unit...amazing they fit such great tech in such a small footprint. The headamp in the idsd micro completely smokes my valhalla 2....and is a great match with my alpha primes.It will be interesting indeed to see how the idsd stacks up with the cavali!


----------



## doctorjazz

listening to Geek Out Special Edition being input by Regen (out to HE-1000, Norne Zoetic cable), sounds INCREDIBLE! GO SE not available, but Pulse XFi with Femto clocks should be at least as good sounding. My recommendation.


----------



## Arnotts

stuart1927 said:


> I'll second that. I just bought one and I'm blown away by it. Really superb unit...amazing they fit such great tech in such a small footprint. The headamp in the idsd micro completely smokes my valhalla 2....and is a great match with my alpha primes.It will be interesting indeed to see how the idsd stacks up with the cavali!


 
 If you're using a valhalla 2 for alpha primes then you would probably find MANY different amps to be an upgrade. Valhalla 2 excels with high impedance headphones.


----------



## GCTD

So when is the Carbon going to ship?


----------



## bearFNF

gctd said:


> So when is the Carbon going to ship?


 

 Was supposed to be toward the end of August but could now be beginning of Sept due to the delay Alex was talking about.  He would know best, though...
 Here's his post about he delay: http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/2820#post_11828623


----------



## jamato8

runeight said:


> Gents, here’s an update on where we are. I’ve waited a little longer than planned to be sure to have the best info.
> 
> Things are moving along well, but we have decided that the first run of volume controls are not to the level of performance we want them. And so, we have ordered an entirely new set of controls. These will not be here for a few weeks yet. Our work now is to ensure that the production run keeps moving forward even though the vol pots can’t be installed on the boards immediately. We are working on this right now.
> 
> I know that many of you have been waiting for some time, but it is important to us that you get a Carbon that is up to our standards. Yes, there will be a slight delay because of this. Don’t know how much yet, but hopefully not too much. As soon as we have a more solid idea of time I will post this info.


 

 Volume control? I don't need no stinkin' volume control. Just hold the headphones further away from my ears.


----------



## s7uart

Those new MrSpeakers Ether Carbon's that have been announced today sound like a perfect headphone to go with the LC. Can't wait to audition both pairs at London CamJam!
It's funny how I was only asking a few days ago about the perfect closed headphone to partner the LC, It's like someone was listening to my idea / thoughts of the perfect headphones that I wanted / needed.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

s7uart said:


> Those new MrSpeakers Ether Carbon's that have been announced today sound like a perfect headphone to go with the LC. Can't wait to audition both pairs at London CamJam!
> It's funny how I was only asking a few days ago about the perfect closed headphone to partner the LC, It's like someone was listening to my idea / thoughts of the perfect headphones that I wanted / needed.


 
  
 I bet Dan will travel with that combo, at all the events he goes to...


----------



## elwappo99

Well ill go ahead and be the first. Interested to hear how this compares to the mjolnir 2. Mjolnit 2 starts at around $900


----------



## DCDC

s7uart said:


> Those new MrSpeakers Ether Carbon's that have been announced today sound like a perfect headphone to go with the LC. Can't wait to audition both pairs at London CamJam!
> It's funny how I was only asking a few days ago about the perfect closed headphone to partner the LC, It's like someone was listening to my idea / thoughts of the perfect headphones that I wanted / needed.




+1 was thinking of a future closed back to pair with the LC along with my LCD-X and it seems as though our prayers have been answered haha


----------



## BucketInABucket

I have on the way to me the Alpha Primes and two pairs of vintage cans on the way to form a nice little ortho family with the Liquid Carbon driving (get it) them all


----------



## Maconi

Surprised I haven't seen the Oppo HA-1/HA-2 mentioned. How would the HA-1 stack up vs, and how would the HA-2 fair as a DAC for the LC (the HA-2 has an ESS Sabre32 Reference ES9018-K2M DAC chip)?


----------



## x RELIC x

maconi said:


> Surprised I haven't seen the Oppo HA-1/HA-2 mentioned. How would the HA-1 stack up vs, and how would the HA-2 fair as a DAC for the LC (the HA-2 has an ESS Sabre32 Reference ES9018-K2M DAC chip)?




The HA-1 amp section is very transparent in my opinion and I'm looking forward to comparing it to what I've read of the Cavalli house sound in the Liquid Carbon. As a DAC the HA-1 reference ESS 9018S DAC chip might be similar to the HA-2 k2m mobile version but I imagine it would be slightly more resolving (if you can even tell) than the mobile version given the higher spec. Still, the HA-2 should provide a very clean signal. Looking forward to testing balanced out from the HA-1 DAC vs SE, which obviously you can't do with the HA-2.


----------



## goldendarko

x relic x said:


> The HA-1 amp section is very transparent in my opinion and I'm looking forward to comparing it to what I've read of the Cavalli house sound in the Liquid Carbon. As a DAC the HA-1 reference ESS 9018S DAC chip might be similar to the HA-2 k2m mobile version but I imagine it would be slightly more resolving (if you can even tell) than the mobile version given the higher spec. Still, the HA-2 should provide a very clean signal. Looking forward to testing balanced out from the HA-1 DAC vs SE, which obviously you can't do with the HA-2.


 
 Agreed, the HA-1 is a very transparent amp and the Liquid Carbon seems to be getting a similar description, once I get the LC next month I will report back with some details of it against my HA-1 as well.


----------



## DecentLevi

I can't believe I'm the first one to break word of this here... the (so called) reDACted is out:
 http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
  
 It's the multi-bit version of the Gungnir, for $1249 and is supposed to share a lot of the same technology as the Yggy. Forgive me for a noob question, but what is the difference between R2R (AKA Theta type) and Multi-bit (AKA Yggdrasil type) DACs, or are they the same algorhythm? Seems like a question for @Stillhart. Also @warrenpchi is that true you've already heard this DAC? I think the main question is if the extra dough justifies the difference in sound... and I would bet this sounds good with the LC amp.


----------



## Stillhart

decentlevi said:


> I can't believe I'm the first one to break word of this here... the (so called) reDACted is out:
> http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
> 
> It's the multi-bit version of the Gungnir, for $1249 and is supposed to share a lot of the same technology as the Yggy. Forgive me for a noob question, but what is the difference between R2R (AKA Theta type) and Multi-bit (AKA Yggdrasil type) DACs, or are they the same algorhythm? Seems like a question for @Stillhart. Also @warrenpchi is that true you've already heard this DAC? I think the main question is if the extra dough justifies the difference in sound... and I would bet this sounds good with the LC amp.


 
  
 I believe there was already some discussion on it in the "DAC for the LC" thread.  I was at the Schiit Show this weekend and I heard it.  It sounded very good paired with the Mjolnir 2.  I'll reserve full judgement until I can get a unit in house and test it on my gear.  But yeah, it's easily 75% or more of the Yggy for about half the price.
  
 As to R2R vs Multi-bit, those are basically just synonyms.  R2R chips are always multi-bit like a square is always a rectangle.


----------



## x RELIC x

Rail to rail, resistor to resistor, R2R, multi bit, ladder DAC, all the same thing.


----------



## xuan87

stillhart said:


> I believe there was already some discussion on it in the "DAC for the LC" thread.  I was at the Schiit Show this weekend and I heard it.  It sounded very good paired with the Mjolnir 2.  I'll reserve full judgement until I can get a unit in house and test it on my gear.  But yeah, it's easily 75% or more of the Yggy for about half the price.
> 
> As to R2R vs Multi-bit, those are basically just synonyms.  R2R chips are always multi-bit like a square is always a rectangle.


 
  
 Isn't it possible to have a multi-bit DS DAC? I distinctly remember either Jason or Mike writing about it when discussing the differences between R2R and DS, and stating the multi-bit DS DAC is lame since it's essentially going back to R2R.


----------



## joeexp

Can you guys please use the "Finding a DAC for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon" thread 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
 with any DAC related question/answers, theories  etc etc ...
  
  
 Thank you!


----------



## potkettleblack

Hi lads,
  
  
 Any impressions of the liquid carbon with lcd x?
  
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## aamefford

potkettleblack said:


> Hi lads,
> 
> 
> Any impressions of the liquid carbon with lcd x?
> ...


 
 I think there are some impressions buried in this thread somewhere?


----------



## Stillhart

potkettleblack said:


> Hi lads,
> 
> 
> Any impressions of the liquid carbon with lcd x?
> ...


 
  
 I haven't heard that combo yet, but it should sound very good.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

@DigitalFreak heard that combo, and the LCD-3s...


----------



## DigitalFreak

Check my Carbon review on headphone guru, it's there.


----------



## mandrake50

joeexp said:


> Can you guys please use the "Finding a DAC for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon" thread
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
> with any DAC related question/answers, theories  etc etc ...
> 
> ...


 

 why do you care... just curious. Thoughts are thoughts.. I subscribe to all of the LC threads.
 Really... why do you find it so irritating to not read in the order that you prefer..
 This goes on all over HeadFi... and I don't find that I comprehend the reason...
 Help!!


----------



## doctorjazz

I don't get how you can get off topic on a thread for a component that doesn't actually exist yet...at least not in the real world, used by paying customers. Gotta talk about something aside from, "can't wait until I get mine!"


----------



## Stillhart

Guys, it's a reasonable request.  There's a reason we have a separate thread for it and it so people who don't care don't have to read through it.  I replied to the post in question in the other thread and life is good for everyone.  
  
 Deep breaths.


----------



## musiclvr

I am hoping that I will receive my LC by early Sep. as I should be receiving my Noble Savant IEM's as well. I am a most novice audiophile but am trying to work on my ability to review said items. I really appreciate the insight fellow head-fiers have contributed thus far in the LC so I hope to be able to be of help to someone else with gear I own/have demoed.


----------



## potkettleblack

Do tell..


----------



## potkettleblack

I read it and I'm a big fan of your reviews, so thank you.


----------



## doctorjazz

musiclvr said:


> I am hoping that I will receive my LC by early Sep. as I should be receiving my Noble Savant IEM's as well. I am a most novice audiophile but am trying to work on my ability to review said items. I really appreciate the insight fellow head-fiers have contributed thus far in the LC so I hope to be able to be of help to someone else with gear I own/have demoed.




I noticed you posted on the Miles Davis Tribute thread, really liking them. Have to pull mine out, did like them once upon a time, but new toy syndrome has relegated them to the back of the draw.


----------



## musiclvr

doctorjazz said:


> I noticed you posted on the Miles Davis Tribute thread, really liking them. Have to pull mine out, did like them once upon a time, but new toy syndrome has relegated them to the back of the draw.




I really do. The Miles Davis Tributes were one of my first 'out of my comfort zone' audio gear purchases when I first got into this hobby. It's one of the most fun sounding headphones for me without being too U shaped in its presentation. I have been trying to get as much ear time with my assorted amps and iem combos in anticipation of the the arrival of the Savant and LC so I can really appreciate what they have to offer and hear how they differ in comparison. In doing so it has been a rekindled love affair with some of my neglected headphones too.


----------



## x RELIC x

The Liquid Carbon seems, to me, to be one of those unique products everyone is building or modifying their audio chain to accommodate instead of the other way around. Nice that Dr. Cavalli was able to bring his talents to a wider audience. Actually, I don't think I've seen so many people in a thread that have purchased a piece of gear without auditioning before hand. That's quite the reputation! Simply giddy waiting for them to ship..............


----------



## DaemonSire

The 500 unit cap also makes it enticing for people


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> The Liquid Carbon seems, to me, to be one of those unique products everyone is building or modifying their audio chain to accommodate instead of the other way around. Nice that Dr. Cavalli was able to bring his talents to a wider audience. Actually, I don't think I've seen so many people in a thread that have purchased a piece of gear without auditioning before hand. That's quite the reputation! Simply giddy waiting for them to ship..............


 
 And those of us who did actually get to audition the LC beforehand are equally (or possibly even more) eager for the upcoming shipment day. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> I noticed you posted on the Miles Davis Tribute thread, really liking them. Have to pull mine out, did like them once upon a time, but new toy syndrome has relegated them to the back of the draw.


 
 Out of curiosity I looked up the Tribute's on Amazon. The first reviewer says that he searched high and low for the "best of the best" and cannot believe he paid something like $400 for them. Then he gets lambasted in the comments section by people telling him he's a fool for paying that much for headphones, that $30-40 is the most you need to pay. Good thing those people don't read Head-Fi (especially the Noble/JHA/Audeze/Abyss threads!). Here's to us enjoying our own bit of "crazy" that 99+% of the population will never understand.


----------



## x RELIC x

Yeah, the 500 cap and the 100% positive impressions are what drew me in. 

The point is I don't remember reading about people purchasing DACs and headphones specifically for product XXXXX as often as I am with the Liquid Carbon. Though the price of the amp seems very reasonable I am constantly reading about people upgrading the whole chain (myself included), just because of the incoming Liquid Carbon, which at the end of the day would cost 2-3 times more than the Carbon itself. Amazing what's going on here.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm not really sure the LC will be "bad" with some components, seems most describe it as fairly neutral. Seems to me most good gear upstream and downstream will sound quite good with the LC. I think it is a lot of excitement and ways to keep busy while waiting for the bad boy to be shipped. 
My $0.02


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> I'm not really sure the LC will be "bad" with some components, seems most describe it as fairly neutral. Seems to me most good gear upstream and downstream will sound quite good with the LC. I think it is a lot of excitement and ways to keep busy while waiting for the bad boy to be shipped.
> My $0.02


 
 +1. 
  
 You nailed it. Similar to first time parents pimping out the nursery as something to do while awaiting that special delivery.


----------



## doctorjazz

mscott58 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed you posted on the Miles Davis Tribute thread, really liking them. Have to pull mine out, did like them once upon a time, but new toy syndrome has relegated them to the back of the draw.
> ...




Don't have to imagine, you can read the naysayers in many places, they lambast good gear, they lambast the idea of hi resolution/vinyl, they were all over the Pono thread for a while. Never got why people get so worked up about the evils of high end audio, but no one thinks there is an evil conspiracy in, say, high end cars.


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> I'm not really sure the LC will be "bad" with some components, seems most describe it as fairly neutral. Seems to me most good gear upstream and downstream will sound quite good with the LC. I think it is a lot of excitement and ways to keep busy while waiting for the bad boy to be shipped.
> My $0.02




Yes, exactly. I never said anything about being bad with anything. I'm simply pointing out how the excitement for the Carbon is very high and people are wanting to upgrade the whole chain in anticipation of the new amp. It's a good thing, and one which I don't see too often _at this level_.


----------



## money4me247

...hey guys, I'm thinking about canceling my Liquid Carbon order for the mjolnir 2 instead. I don't really need the transportable factor at all. Any opinions from people who heard both?? thanks!


----------



## thomascrown

money4me247 said:


> ...hey guys, I'm thinking about canceling my Liquid Carbon order for the mjolnir 2 instead. I don't really need the transportable factor at all. Any opinions from people who heard both?? thanks!


 
 +1


----------



## doctorjazz

Don't know how it compares,it is 50% more expensive. Depends what you need...already have MicroZOTL2, transportable great sounding amp still works for me.


----------



## JK-47

Not yet, but I have the LC and MJ2 on order... Both will be fed by the Gungnir Mb


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> ...hey guys, I'm thinking about canceling my Liquid Carbon order for the mjolnir 2 instead. I don't really need the transportable factor at all. Any opinions from people who heard both?? thanks!


 
  
 I'll be honest, I'm not a huge fan of Schiit's amps.  I find them a bit too bright and aggressive for me.  While the tubes in the Mjolnir 2 tame that a bit, I think it's still got that house sound.  I find myself preferring the relatively warmer sound of the LC.
  
 And again, not that the Schiit sound is BAD, it's just not my bag, baby.


----------



## mandrake50

money4me247 said:


> ...hey guys, I'm thinking about canceling my Liquid Carbon order for the mjolnir 2 instead. I don't really need the transportable factor at all. Any opinions from people who heard both?? thanks!


 

 It may be a good idea to get the LC and take a listen to it. I have an idea that it would not be hard to sell if you did not like it. In addition, if you don't get the LC now, you may never get one, except possibly used at a potentially higher price. The Mjolnir 2 should be readily available  at a stable price point for the foreseeable future (less on the used market).
  
 Not only that, but there are just not that many who have listened to the LC (especially the final version, which reportedly has gotten some tweaks) in a controlled environment, let alone done a 1 to 1 comparison between the two...
  
 Just my thoughts.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Alex may not enjoy eating with the commoners, and never make a Liquid Carbon again....


----------



## gr8soundz

money4me247 said:


> ...hey guys, I'm thinking about canceling my Liquid Carbon order for the mjolnir 2 instead. I don't really need the transportable factor at all. Any opinions from people who heard both?? thanks!


 
  
 New gear is sometimes just that: newer. It gets our attention. Got my eye on the new Schiit gear too and the 4+ month wait for the LC makes it seem a bit "dated" even though it hasn't shipped yet. Thought of at least half a dozen other amps since ordering the LC but I kept my order (the latest pics and news of the the left/right amp sections mirrored on top/bottom of the pcb helped too).
  
 Next amp up will be the iFi Pro with a switch to go instantly from tube to ss instead of having to swap tubes/lssts on the Mjolnir. What will we do then?
  
 My philosophy is that newer isn't always better (sometimes, but not always). We know too much about the LC and it's price/performance value to back out now.


----------



## jjacq

The announcement of the Mjolnir 2 made me really wonder if I should've waited for that instead of the Liquid Carbon too to be honest and since i'm planning to get a MB Gungnir, the Mjolnir 2 would be a better looking match for it. But I'm with @mandrake50 on this one, I'm planning to wait for the Liquid Carbon to see how it sounds with the MB Gungnir and maybe get the Mjolnir 2 to compare. Just sell off whichever doesn't belong to my preferred sound sig although everyone seems to praise the LCD-X or ETHER with the Liquid Carbon .


----------



## nicolo

I placed the order for the Liquid Carbon yesterday. Are they all being shipped out in September?


----------



## digitalzed

nicolo said:


> I placed the order for the Liquid Carbon yesterday. Are they all being shipped out in September?


 

 It could be anytime but Alex has stated before he feels it will be the end of this month or early September. I don't believe thee's any update other than that.You probably won't get yours right away when Alex starts shipping though. He has stated that it will be done by order received and not sure how many a day he can turn around.


----------



## IAmSoCheap

money4me247 said:


> ...hey guys, I'm thinking about canceling my Liquid Carbon order for the mjolnir 2 instead. I don't really need the transportable factor at all. Any opinions from people who heard both?? thanks!



Buy both, write a a/b comparison for head-fier, keep the one you like more, done. Yeah!


----------



## DatGuy

you forgot the part where he mails me the other one, duh.
  
  
 anyways i would still go for the LC, like some others said before the mjollnir 2 is readily available


----------



## money4me247

iamsocheap said:


> Buy both, write a a/b comparison for head-fier, keep the one you like more, done. Yeah!


 
 hahah yeaaa... the thing is realistically though while I do love writing a/b comparisons, it is an expensive endeavour purchasing gear for extended home auditions with the plan to later resell them (even more so as I try to give fellow head-fi buyers a good price point when I resell).
  
 basically, I could likely have purchased a liquid carbon or even a mjolnir 2 with the money lost from reselling. I don't submit my reviews to reviewing sites for money either, so all the losts hit my bank account. trying to approach my external component purchases without using the expensive try & see type approach.
  
 also, I actually do not enjoy writing source component reviews as much as headphone reviews as the process of isolating sonic differences is extremely tedious & honestly, often times, I am not sure if the differences are real or if I am grasping at straws. With headphones reviewing, the entire process is much more enjoyable with much more obvious differences that you can often confirm with non-audiophiles. Always feel much more confident about my sonic findings with headphones compared to external components.
  
 I guess I still have time to decide, but strongly leaning towards jumping ship. All I am looking for is a 'slightly' nicer amplifier over the Lyr 2 with balanced & single-ended outputs. The Mjolnir 2's flexibility with LISST tubes is much more appealing to me personally than the Carbon's transportability (which I doubt I would really ever use). I also have a soft spot for tube gear hahah


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems to me, if you struggle to hear the differences between source gear, and that makes it hard to write about the differences, I'd just save the money and stick to the LC...but that's me, of course. Don't have any particular interest in either one financially, aside from having already spent on the LC, but I can see going for other options (never look to me for ways to be frugal, by the way...seems to me, if I were to try for something different/better than the LC, I'd save and jump to the next level, Liquid Gold, Auralic, other higher priced spreads, think you have to do that to not struggle to hear the SQ differences).


----------



## money4me247

doctorjazz said:


> Seems to me, if you struggle to hear the differences between source gear, and that makes it hard to write about the differences, I'd just save the money and stick to the LC...but that's me, of course. Don't have any particular interest in either one financially, aside from having already spent on the LC, but I can see going for other options (never look to me for ways to be frugal, by the way...seems to me, if I were to try for something different/better than the LC, I'd save and jump to the next level, Liquid Gold, Auralic, other higher priced spreads, think you have to do that to not struggle to hear the SQ differences).


 
 I can "hear" differences, but realistically small & a struggle for me anyway. after running gear through a direct blinded comparisons... results can often be quite surprising/different than what I initial think, which often makes me question things. =S
  
 good perspective though. perhaps I would just cancel & wait to upgrade even higher hahaha! did not consider that option lol


----------



## Stillhart

I'd recommend sticking with the LC. Cavalli sound is very different from Schiit sound and you will not struggle to hear it. You'll know quickly if you want to upgrade from there and the LC won't be hard to sell since it does in fact sound quite good.


----------



## doctorjazz

I wasn't being facetious, amp differences can indeed be subtle, diminishing returns kicks in harder in amps than in headphones.


----------



## Barry S

jjacq said:


> The announcement of the Mjolnir 2 made me really wonder if I should've waited for that instead of the Liquid Carbon too to be honest and since i'm planning to get a MB Gungnir, the Mjolnir 2 would be a better looking match for it. But I'm with @mandrake50 on this one, I'm planning to wait for the Liquid Carbon to see how it sounds with the MB Gungnir and maybe get the Mjolnir 2 to compare. Just sell off whichever doesn't belong to my preferred sound sig although everyone seems to praise the LCD-X or ETHER with the Liquid Carbon .


 

 Schiit mentions that the Mjolnir 2 with the LISST "tubes" sounds like the Mjolnir 1. My own experience is the Mjolnir 1 isn't a great pairing with the LCD-X because the mids sound thin. Real tubes in the Mjolnir 2 may address this, but I wouldn't count on it. Doing a direct comparison with the LC would be ideal.


----------



## reddog

barry s said:


> Schiit mentions that the Mjolnir 2 with the LISST "tubes" sounds like the Mjolnir 1. My own experience is the Mjolnir 1 isn't a great pairing with the LCD-X because the mids sound thin. Real tubes in the Mjolnir 2 may address this, but I wouldn't count on it. Doing a direct comparison with the LC would be ideal.



+1 You make some great points. I am looking forward to impressions that will describe how "tube" sounding the Mjolnir 2 is. I am tempted to get this amp, if it has a great tube signature in balanced playback.


----------



## Barry S

reddog said:


> +1 You make some great points. I am looking forward to impressions that will describe how "tube" sounding the Mjolnir 2 is. I am tempted to get this amp, if it has a great tube signature in balanced playback.


 

 Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing the Mjolnir 2 as well. The best hybrid tube amp I've heard has been the Liquid Glass, but $850 vs. $3000.


----------



## SuperU

stillhart said:


> I'd recommend sticking with the LC. Cavalli sound is very different from Schiit sound and you will not struggle to hear it. You'll know quickly if you want to upgrade from there and the LC won't be hard to sell since it does in fact sound quite good.


 
@money4me247 the perspective that I'm quoting from @Stillhart is why I ultimately bought the LC. 
  
 I really want something from Cavalli. I questioned the heck out of him, darn near demanding that he PLEASE give me a verbal description of the sonic differences between the LC and the Liquid Gold and he basically wouldn't. (sorry to have been so pushy Alex) He only would say that *the LC is not a cheap imitation* (not his exact words but as close as I can remember.) 
  
 He said the LC definitely has his sound signature. So it is the place for me to start. 
  
 When I can justify coming up with $4k and feel as if I want to move up, I will know if his sound signature is the direction I want to go.
  
 Personally I don't care about it being transportable, just want something from the great Cavalli line. This should be a real good start. And since my LCD-X's don't take a lot to drive them, the LC might just be where I stay. We'll know soon enough.


----------



## Stillhart

Impressions tonight.  Mr. Moffatt recommends twelve hours of warm up.


----------



## goldendarko

stillhart said:


> Impressions tonight.  Mr. Moffatt recommends twelve hours of warm up.


 

 Are they shipping now?


----------



## Stillhart

goldendarko said:


> Are they shipping now?


 
  
 Yes indeed, they were available to ship from the day they were announced.


----------



## doctorjazz

Cool, will check in for impressions!


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Yes indeed, they were available to ship from the day they were announced.


 
  
 I think he meant the LC, this is the LC thread afterall...
  


goldendarko said:


> Are they shipping now?


 
  
 If you were asking about the LC, they are not.
  
 Now's a good time to open the wallet and snag an Ether C, right?


----------



## goldendarko

axelcloris said:


> I think he meant the LC, this is the LC thread afterall...
> 
> 
> If you were asking about the LC, they are not.
> ...


 

 Isn't that the LC in his picture? What else would I be talking about anyway if not the LC, now I am confused what Stillhart says is shipping now


----------



## AxelCloris

goldendarko said:


> Isn't that the LC in his picture? What else would I be talking about anyway if not the LC, now I am confused what Stillhart says is shipping now


 
  
 The multibit Gungnir underneath the prototype LC.


----------



## goldendarko

I see (said the blind man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Stillhart

So that picture was worth not so many words, apparently...


----------



## gr8soundz

We need a 12hr countdown timer!
  
 Or is it 10hrs now.....?


----------



## Jozurr

Impressions of GMB vs the DAC-19 as well please (am I jumping threads? you can post in the relevant one)


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> We need a 12hr countdown timer!
> 
> Or is it 10hrs now.....?


 
  
 About 8 hrs left.  
  


jozurr said:


> Impressions of GMB vs the DAC-19 as well please (am I jumping threads? you can post in the relevant one)


 
  
 You're the millionth person to ask and yes, I'll definitely be comparing them.  It's the main reason I bought the GMB.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> About 8 hrs left.
> 
> 
> You're the millionth person to ask and yes, I'll definitely be comparing them.  It's the main reason I bought the GMB.


 
 That makes me 999,999.....


----------



## Jozurr

stillhart said:


> About 8 hrs left.
> 
> 
> You're the millionth person to ask and yes, I'll definitely be comparing them.  It's the main reason I bought the GMB.


 
  
 I'm probably the one who has asked millions of times in different places (You were a big reason of why I got the DAC-19 in the first place!)


----------



## Stillhart

Hey don't get me wrong, I'm flattered you guys are so interested in my thoughts.  Just sayin, there's no way I WON'T give a full comparison of the two.


----------



## gr8soundz

Hey Stillhart, do you also have (or have you heard) the iFi iDSD Micro?
  
 If so, before the GMB is warmed up, any thoughts on how much better the DAC-19 is compared to the Micro?
  
 I'm trying to gauge how much improvement I might gain DAC-wise by upgrading to either the 19 or GMB after my LC arrives.


----------



## musiclvr

stillhart said:


> I'd recommend sticking with the LC. Cavalli sound is very different from Schiit sound and you will not struggle to hear it. You'll know quickly if you want to upgrade from there and the LC won't be hard to sell since it does in fact sound quite good.



I own a Schiit Asgard 2 amp. How would you say the Cavalli LC sound differs from the Schiit house sound? Thank you @Stillhart for all your insight as of late as it is appreciated!


----------



## Beolab

Does the LC put out good bass or is it a little restrained , whats your opinion if you compare it to the Liquid Crimson or any other more expensive amp?


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Hey Stillhart, do you also have (or have you heard) the iFi iDSD Micro?
> 
> If so, before the GMB is warmed up, any thoughts on how much better the DAC-19 is compared to the Micro?
> 
> I'm trying to gauge how much improvement I might gain DAC-wise by upgrading to either the 19 or GMB after my LC arrives.


 
  
 Sorry, I've never heard any of the ifi models.  But it's D-S and moving to an R2R DAC will be a marked improvement in tonality, no matter which you choose.
  


musiclvr said:


> I own a Schiit Asgard 2 amp. How would you say the Cavalli LC sound differs from the Schiit house sound? Thank you @Stillhart for all your insight as of late as it is appreciated!


 
  
 Schiit's house sound is generally somewhat cold and analytical, as well as aggressive or forward.  Cavalli's house sound is supposed to be very natural -- neutral with a hint of musicality that comes across as very natural.  I haven't heard the Asgard but by all accounts it shares the house sound so it should sound different as described above.
  


beolab said:


> Does the LC put out good bass or is it a little restrained , whats your opinion if you compare it to the Liquid Crimson or any other more expensive amp?


 
  
 Well, when comparing the LC to other lower end amps, it puts out very nice bass.  But I had many hours with the Liquid Crimson this weekend and that thing is on another level.  It sounds very similar to the LC tonally, but it has a PRESENCE across the range that makes the LC sound thin and dinky.  The tube also gives it a euphony that the LC can't touch.  I immediately fell in love with it, but it's more than 4x the cost of the LC, meaning I doubt I'll own one anytime soon.  lol
  
 After spending a weekend listening to TOTL headphones (HE-1k, Ether, Ether C, McIntosh, Dharma, Omni, HE-560, etc) out of the Liquid Crimson and the DAC-19 with expensive Nordost interconnects, I was worried that I was going to be too spoiled to enjoy the LC when I got home.
  
 I got my system set back up (DAC-19, Liquid Carbon, HE-560) and fired up some tunes and I was shocked.  The system still sounded REALLY good.  Like... REALLY good!  This thing holds its own amazingly well when you're not comparing it to its big brother.  I can confidently say that it sounds better than the price would indicate and I have no regrets with the LC.  I do hope to get the Liquid Crimson (or Liquid Glass, which I hear is even better) some day.  But until then, I don't think I'm going to feel any upgrade-itis with the LC anytime soon.  And when I do eventually get those, I will probably keep the LC for its small form factor and use it bedside or something.
  
 To all of you that have pre-ordered and are waiting patiently, don't let the newest toy on the block distract you too much.  The LC is fantastic and you made a good choice!  In a few short weeks (hopefully) you'll all be echoing my sentiments.


----------



## rmullins08

Looking forward to see your thoughts


----------



## vhsownsbeta

stillhart said:


> To all of you that have pre-ordered and are waiting patiently, don't let the newest toy on the block distract you too much.  The LC is fantastic and you made a good choice!  In a few short weeks (hopefully) you'll all be echoing my sentiments.




+1. After coming this far, it would be smart to wait and see it through.

Availability of the schiit amp will increase over time, LC will only decrease...


----------



## doctorjazz

Does anyone know where LC ships from? Got a notice something is shipping from North Carolina...I could have ordered something else (sad, of course, that I'm not sure if something else is coming  ), but maybe it's LC?


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Does anyone know where LC ships from? Got a notice something is shipping from North Carolina...I could have ordered something else (sad, of course, that I'm not sure if something else is coming  ), but maybe it's LC?


 
  
 I believe Cavalli Audio is based out of Austin, Texas.


----------



## bflat

North Carolina and audio related is likely Moon Audio.


----------



## doctorjazz

Now I'm really curious and a bit sheepish...I don't remember what's coming. Guess it's nice to be surprised (may just be an LP, but you usually don't get ups notices for that. Either my Audiophilia Nervosa, or my Alzheimer's (or both) are progressing at an alarming speed!


----------



## doctorjazz

I think I just figured it out...Have a cable ordered ages ago from Norne, bet that's it (great stuff, but takes a really long time to get it). Whew, at least I'm not sleep-ordering!


----------



## AustinValentine

stillhart said:


> Schiit's house sound is generally somewhat cold and analytical, as well as aggressive or forward.  Cavalli's house sound is supposed to be very natural -- neutral with a hint of musicality that comes across as very natural.  I haven't heard the Asgard but by all accounts it shares the house sound so it should sound different as described above.


 
  
 This is generally true for most of Schiit's amplifiers. Their Magni, Magni 2/Magni 2 Uber, and the first generation Mojo were all very slightly too bright and aggressive for my taste. I'm not canceling my LC to order a Mojo 2 simply because I didn't find the first gen Mojo very much to my taste preferences. Maybe some good Amperex tubes would help, but tube rolling is just a hassle.
  
 I'd actually say that the Asgard 2 is one of the rare exceptions to the standard Schiit solid-state house sound. It doesn't have quite the same aggressiveness to it...and while it's pretty tonally neutral it can actually make some dynamic phones sound a little bassy. (ex. The HD600 picks up a bit of bottom end when paired with the Asgard 2.) The Asgard 2, Val 2, and Rag are the only three Schiit amps that I really enjoy. 
  
 That being said, the Cavalli LC is more detailed, musical, and engaging than the Asgard 2 across the board. It's just a way better amplifier, as it should be given the price delta. Moving from that to a LC would be a pretty giant upgrade.


----------



## leafs

stillhart said:


> Well, when comparing the LC to other lower end amps, it puts out very nice bass.  But I had many hours with the Liquid Crimson this weekend and that thing is on another level.  It sounds very similar to the LC tonally, but it has a PRESENCE across the range that makes the LC sound thin and dinky.  The tube also gives it a euphony that the LC can't touch.  I immediately fell in love with it, but it's more than 4x the cost of the LC, meaning I doubt I'll own one anytime soon.  lol
> 
> After spending a weekend listening to TOTL headphones (HE-1k, Ether, Ether C, McIntosh, Dharma, Omni, HE-560, etc) out of the Liquid Crimson and the DAC-19 with expensive Nordost interconnects, I was worried that I was going to be too spoiled to enjoy the LC when I got home.
> 
> I got my system set back up (DAC-19, Liquid Carbon, HE-560) and fired up some tunes and I was shocked.  The system still sounded REALLY good.  Like... REALLY good!  This thing holds its own amazingly well when you're not comparing it to its big brother.  I can confidently say that it sounds better than the price would indicate and I have no regrets with the LC.  I do hope to get the Liquid Crimson (or Liquid Glass, which I hear is even better) some day.  But until then, I don't think I'm going to feel any upgrade-itis with the LC anytime soon.  And when I do eventually get those, I will probably keep the LC for its small form factor and use it bedside or something.


 
 Thanks for sharing your listening experience. I actually ready to cancel my preorder for Liquid Carbon, and to go for Crimson. However your comment on Liquid Carbon sound and its price value seem to make sense that I should perhaps keep my order. After all I haven't yet has a chance to experience first hand on Cavalli signature. Though I think I will like it based on your comment on Cavalli house sound and Schiit sound.


----------



## warrenpchi

To my knowledge, there is only one person who has heard the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 using the same upstream and downstream gear... that is to say, using the same DAC and same headphones, such that a comparison between the two amps can be made... and that is Stillhart.  Maybe if we bug him enough, he'll write up a comparison.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^^^ Moderator + Troll = Moderoll?


----------



## warrenpchi

buttuglyjeff said:


> ^^^^^ Moderator + Troll = Moderoll?


 

 I'm sorry, I had to step away for a moment.  You called?


----------



## ejong7

warrenpchi said:


> To my knowledge, there is only one person who has heard the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 using the same upstream and downstream gear... that is to say, using the same DAC and same headphones, such that a comparison between the two amps can be made... and that is Stillhart.  Maybe if we bug him enough, he'll write up a comparison.


 
 Warren instigating others to pull out their pitch forks then step aside while watching it listening to his own LC. Some people just want to watch the world burn.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

.....maybe Troderator?


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Sorry, I've never heard any of the ifi models.  But it's D-S and moving to an R2R DAC will be a marked improvement in tonality, no matter which you choose.
> 
> After spending a weekend listening to TOTL headphones (HE-1k, Ether, Ether C, McIntosh, Dharma, Omni, HE-560, etc) out of the Liquid Crimson and the DAC-19 with expensive Nordost interconnects, I was worried that I was going to be too spoiled to enjoy the LC when I got home.


 
  
 Thanks so much for the impressions. Really helpful. TBH, don't quite get the D-S vs. R2R meaning.
  
 Just wanted to know how the Dharma paired with the LC? Haven't heard much about that hybrid headphone so far.


----------



## audiofrk

austinvalentine said:


> This is generally true for most of Schiit's amplifiers. Their Magni, Magni 2/Magni 2 Uber, and the first generation Mojo were all very slightly too bright and aggressive for my taste. I'm not canceling my LC to order a Mojo 2 simply because I didn't find the first gen Mojo very much to my taste preferences. Maybe some good Amperex tubes would help, but tube rolling is just a hassle.
> 
> I'd actually say that the Asgard 2 is one of the rare exceptions to the standard Schiit solid-state house sound. It doesn't have quite the same aggressiveness to it...and while it's pretty tonally neutral it can actually make some dynamic phones sound a little bassy. (ex. The HD600 picks up a bit of bottom end when paired with the Asgard 2.) The Asgard 2, Val 2, and Rag are the only three Schiit amps that I really enjoy.
> 
> That being said, the Cavalli LC is more detailed, musical, and engaging than the Asgard 2 across the board. It's just a way better amplifier, as it should be given the price delta. Moving from that to a LC would be a pretty giant upgrade.





I didn't like the mojo either but the mojo2 with tubes is a whole other beast, I liked it alot. That being said its very aggressive the carbon isn't. It's also a lot bigger & $300 more. Plus I'll probably get tube upgrade itis. Overall still think my cavalli will go nice with my paradox.


----------



## Stillhart

leafs said:


> Thanks for sharing your listening experience. I actually ready to cancel my preorder for Liquid Carbon, and to go for Crimson. However your comment on Liquid Carbon sound and its price value seem to make sense that I should perhaps keep my order. After all I haven't yet has a chance to experience first hand on Cavalli signature. Though I think I will like it based on your comment on Cavalli house sound and Schiit sound.


 
  
 Well I mean, the Crimson *is* much better.  If you decide you like the LC's sound and want more of the same, you can't go wrong with the Crimson.
  


warrenpchi said:


> To my knowledge, there is only one person who has heard the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 using the same upstream and downstream gear... that is to say, using the same DAC and same headphones, such that a comparison between the two amps can be made... and that is Stillhart.  Maybe if we bug him enough, he'll write up a comparison.


 
  
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> ^^^^^ Moderator + Troll = Moderoll?


 
  
  


ejong7 said:


> Warren instigating others to pull out their pitch forks then step aside while watching it listening to his own LC. Some people just want to watch the world burn.


 
  
 I've been calling him a "Treasel" lately -- it's a mix between a troll and a tease.  Unfortunately, he seems to be enjoying the name a bit too much.  I'm going maybe bug another moderator to change his title to "treasel" so we all have fair warning!
  


gr8soundz said:


> Thanks so much for the impressions. Really helpful. TBH, don't quite get the D-S vs. R2R meaning.
> 
> Just wanted to know how the Dharma paired with the LC? Haven't heard much about that hybrid headphone so far.


 
  
 I've written extensively about the differences between D-S and R2R.  Here's a recent post by another forum member that might give you a general idea of the differences between D-S and R2R.  
  
 So far, the only thing I've heard that I don't like with the LC is the HD650 and that's mostly because I just don't like that headphone very much.  lol


----------



## warrenpchi

> Originally Posted by *warrenpchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> To my knowledge, there is only one person who has heard the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 using the same upstream and downstream gear... that is to say, using the same DAC and same headphones, such that a comparison between the two amps can be made... and that is Stillhart.  Maybe if we bug him enough, he'll write up a comparison.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That doesn't make what I said any less true.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> I've written extensively about the differences between D-S and R2R.  Here's a recent post by another forum member that might give you a general idea of the differences between D-S and R2R.
> 
> So far, the only thing I've heard that I don't like with the LC is the HD650 and that's mostly because I just don't like that headphone very much.  lol


 
  
 Thanks. I missed the D-S as a Delta-Sigma reference (kept thinking "digital series" which made no sense).
  
 Guess I need to spend more time researching DAC types (Sabre, D-S, R2R, and now multi-bit like the GMB). At least you reconfirmed the LC is a great baseline amp so I can focus on other components.
  
 I also tried the HD650 recently and wasn't a fan. Great headphone but I actually preferred my HD598 over it.


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> That doesn't make what I said any less true.


 
  
 Shouldn't you be asleep right now?
  


gr8soundz said:


> Thanks. I missed the D-S as a Delta-Sigma reference (kept thinking "digital series" which made no sense).
> 
> Guess I need to spend more time researching DAC types (Sabre, D-S, R2R, and now multi-bit like the GMB). At least you reconfirmed the LC is a great baseline amp so I can focus on other components.
> 
> I also tried the HD650 recently and wasn't a fan. Great headphone but I actually preferred my HD598 over it.


 
  
 Quick primer:
  
 Sabre:  Brand name
 D-S:  Tech type that's used by most DAC's these days including Sabre, Wolfson, TI, AKM, whatever is in your iPhone, etc
 R-2R:  Tech that was used by most DAC's back in the day and is having a resurgence.  Notable companies with R2R available today:  Audio-GD, Schiit, vintage Theta, vintage Adcom, etc
 Multibit:  *In general* all D-S is single bit and all R-2R is multibit.  You can assume multibit is a synonym for R2R.  Technically, you can have multi-bit D-S but those are absurdly expensive and not worth discussing.


----------



## gr8soundz

Perfect summary (knew there was some overlap). Thanks again Stillhart.
  
 Pretty sure my next DAC will be a balanced, DSD, Sabre/D-S. Gonna try to match the LC's size (think we'll be seeing more stuff closer to the it's 5x7 inches over time) and be a bit future proof but WILL be keeping my eye on Schiit and the DAC-19 though.
  
 All set for the LC right now. Next decision is to get a Jitterbug and/or a Regen for my Micro and whatever DACs I get next.


----------



## x RELIC x

gr8soundz said:


> Perfect summary (knew there was some overlap). Thanks again Stillhart.
> 
> Pretty sure my next DAC will be a balanced, DSD, Sabre/D-S. Gonna try to match the LC's size (think we'll be seeing more stuff closer to the it's 5x7 inches over time) and be a bit future proof but WILL be keeping my eye on Schiit and the DAC-19 though.
> 
> All set for the LC right now. Next decision is to get a Jitterbug and/or a Regen for my Micro and whatever DACs I get next.




Here is a primer that's easy to read (no too much tech talk compared to most articles on the subject) on the differences between Delta-Sigma vs R2R/multibit/ladder DAC implementations.

http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm

I think this would be more appropriate to continue DAC questions in the DAC thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/810#post_11846750


----------



## aamefford

Anybody out there have the pin out for the 3 pin XLR inputs?  Someone has offered to make me a nice RSA / Kobiconn to 3 pin XLRs cable to go from a Solo -db to the LC for balanced input.
  
@runeight - I'm tagging you just in case you have a second to pull yourself off the grindstone....


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> Anybody out there have the pin out for the 3 pin XLR inputs?  Someone has offered to make me a nice RSA / Kobiconn to 3 pin XLRs cable to go from a Solo -db to the LC for balanced input.
> 
> @runeight - I'm tagging you just in case you have a second to pull yourself off the grindstone....


 
  
 Try this link:  http://www.head-fi.org/a/diy-cable-info-and-resources


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> Try this link:  http://www.head-fi.org/a/diy-cable-info-and-resources


 
 Nice, thank you.


----------



## sahmen

Any impressions of an LC + HD 800 pairing?  I'd particularly want to know how the LC handles bass on the HD 800.   Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

sahmen said:


> Any impressions of an LC + HD 800 pairing?  I'd particularly want to know how the LC handles bass on the HD 800.   Thanks


 
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/2805#post_11826198


----------



## sahmen

stillhart said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/2805#post_11826198


 
 Cool. Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

warrenpchi said:


> To my knowledge, there is only one person who has heard the Liquid Carbon and the Mjolnir 2 using the same upstream and downstream gear... that is to say, using the same DAC and same headphones, such that a comparison between the two amps can be made... and that is Stillhart.  Maybe if we bug him enough, he'll write up a comparison.




True, but, well... There are some underlying tech differences that will have an effect on the sound.

For me, the big thing about the Mjolnir 2 is the LSST adapters (to make it like the old SS Mjolnir) and tubes. Otherwise, it's the powerful Mjolnir 1 again, which is less of a new mostly-unheard-by-the-community device than the LC.

By contrast, the LC has a heritage trickled down from "one of" the most premium amp designers on the market, and is very new to this obtainable price point. Three things stand out about it to me, maybe 4:
•Fully balanced amplification with the option of SE or Bal outputs.
•Current-mode amplification... Amps have had to seek some kind of balance between output impedance and negative feedback, dating back to designs I've seen from the 1930's. Lower the output impedance, you have to raise negative feedback to keep the amp stable (Wikipedia the topic for more info), and this leads to it's own kind of distortion. The LC is different and one of only a few "obtainable" prices amps that use current-mode amplification, which doesn't need negative feedback and thus the amp can have really low output impedance. It's going to be a SUPER low noise, black background amp that really can "clear the dust" off of micro details.
•it's both technically proficient and musical in it's sonic character
•I've got a music setup upstairs, and a gaming setup downstairs, and I live in an apartment with a one year lease and not an infinite amount of space. LC is a very good amp and not as big as an AVR.

Don't get me wrong, I have a tube amp and I love it, my main headphone amp for like three years outlasting any one of my headphones, but the LC represents something significant and new to me compared to the Mjolnir 2, even though I haven't heard it yet.




stillhart said:


> I've been calling him a "Treasel" lately -- it's a mix between a troll and a tease.  Unfortunately, he seems to be enjoying the name a bit too much.  I'm going maybe bug another moderator to change his title to "treasel" so we all have fair warning!
> 
> 
> ...
> So far, the only thing I've heard that I don't like with the LC is the HD650 and that's mostly because I just don't like that headphone very much.  lol



Eh, you like it sometimes, but it's so colored that it doesn't have staying power for you. You did like the HD650 when powered balanced! Helped deal with the varying impedance and reduce the treble veil.

And I should probably be happy Warren doesn't know me on a first-name basis yet... I get the feeling he's gonna make me busy after RMAF, lol. Sometimes we need encouragement and a push to output our best work. Sometimes!




stillhart said:


> Sabre:  Brand name
> D-S:  Tech type that's used by most DAC's these days including Sabre, Wolfson, TI, AKM, whatever is in your iPhone, etc
> R-2R:  Tech that was used by most DAC's back in the day and is having a resurgence.  Notable companies with R2R available today:  Audio-GD, Schiit, vintage Theta, vintage Adcom, etc
> Multibit:  *In general* all D-S is single bit and all R-2R is multibit.  You can assume multibit is a synonym for R2R.  Technically, you can have multi-bit D-S but those are absurdly expensive and not worth discussing.



iPhone used stuff by Cirrus Logic in the 5-5S gen, it's a D-S chip but pretty good at soundstage and air for how much budget it got among all the other hardware. I haven't extensively tested it, but an iPhone 6 has a 
"Cirrus Logic 338S1201 Audio Codec" for it's DAC/amp duty.


----------



## Stillhart

I posted some pics of the LC in the DAC thread.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/840#post_11857059
  
 Ever wondered just how small it really is?  Go check it out.


----------



## hemtmaker

stillhart said:


> I posted some pics of the LC in the DAC thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/840#post_11857059
> 
> Ever wondered just how small it really is?  Go check it out.




Thanks. By the way, how tall are the included rubber feet?


----------



## Stillhart

hemtmaker said:


> Thanks. By the way, how tall are the included rubber feet?


 
  
 Pretty short. Too short to easily measure.  Maybe 3mm?


----------



## runeight

hemtmaker said:


> Thanks. By the way, how tall are the included rubber feet?


 
  
 Hey gents, the production amps won't have rubber feet. They will have small semi-circle protrusions that run the length of the amp front to back. There will be two of these. It takes time to stick on feet and they frequently come off.


----------



## BucketInABucket

I'm...actually tempted to mod the LC with a beefier power supply when I get it...is that bad?

Edit: I PMed Alex asking whether such a thing will be possible. DiY spirit ftw


----------



## joeexp

runeight said:


> Hey gents, the production amps won't have rubber feet. They will have small semi-circle protrusions that run the length of the amp front to back. There will be two of these. It takes time to stick on feet and they frequently come off.


 

 I hope the production Volume Knob will look like the one from the LG……


----------



## hemtmaker

runeight said:


> Hey gents, the production amps won't have rubber feet. They will have small semi-circle protrusions that run the length of the amp front to back. There will be two of these. It takes time to stick on feet and they frequently come off.



Would you be able to show us a pic? Can I still stack it on top of my dac without worrying abt leaving marks behind?


----------



## xuan87

runeight said:


> Hey gents, the production amps won't have rubber feet. They will have small semi-circle protrusions that run the length of the amp front to back. There will be two of these. It takes time to stick on feet and they frequently come off.


 

 You don't have to stick it on for us. You can just include them in the box and give us the options of whether to stick them on or now. I notice that a lot of portable amp makers are now doing this. If not, it will be a simple matter for me to get a set of 4 from the nearest DIY store.


----------



## runeight

bucketinabucket said:


> I'm...actually tempted to mod the LC with a beefier power supply when I get it...is that bad?
> 
> Edit: I PMed Alex asking whether such a thing will be possible. DiY spirit ftw


 
  
 Anything is, of course, possible, but really the SMPS that is in the Carbon is quite good and one of the primary reasons for its low noise and small size.
  
  


joeexp said:


> I hope the production Volume Knob will look like the one from the LG……


 

  Alas, the high end amp knobs are custom made. We have to be a little more conservative with the enclosure components in the Carbon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


xuan87 said:


> You don't have to stick it on for us. You can just include them in the box and give us the options of whether to stick them on or now. I notice that a lot of portable amp makers are now doing this. If not, it will be a simple matter for me to get a set of 4 from the nearest DIY store.


 
  
 Maybe good to let you guys buy the feet that you like best.


----------



## BucketInABucket

runeight said:


> Anything is, of course, possible, but really the SMPS that is in the Carbon is quite good and one of the primary reasons for its low noise and small size.


 
 Curious to know which one is used and whether any extra regulation is used afterwards


----------



## runeight

The SMPS is a custom design specific to the Carbon. Only the transformer is a custom made part. It makes +/-15V rails and runs anywhere from 85VAC to 265VAC 50/60Hz. There is no need for post regulation since the SMPS itself has built-in regulation. There is, however, ample capacitance after the SMPS both from rails to ground and rail to rail.


----------



## BucketInABucket

runeight said:


> The SMPS is a custom design specific to the Carbon. Only the transformer is a custom made part. It makes +/-15V rails and runs anywhere from 85VAC to 265VAC 50/60Hz. There is no need for post regulation since the SMPS itself has built-in regulation. There is, however, ample capacitance after the SMPS both from rails to ground and rail to rail.


 
 Oh god I'm drooling


----------



## Poimandres

Any updates Dr. Cavalli on the LC's production progress?


----------



## SuperU

runeight said:


> Anything is, of course, possible, but really the SMPS that is in the Carbon is quite good and one of the primary reasons for its low noise and small size.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Would just like to add my opinion here.
  
 1. I would like to buy a complete device - this includes, power cord, knobs, feet and buttons. I don't like DIY projects because I'm not real handy - unfortunately.
  
 2. I bought a power cord and don't want to be forced to choose other items. I want one made by Cavalli without having to do or think more.
  
 3. As long as it comes complete, I'm happy. If you want to offer options for additional cost, that is great. But at least deliver it complete.
  
 Options are fine. Forced to complete a unit is not fine - at least for me.
  
 Thanks - I can not wait to get my hands on my first Cavalli amp.


----------



## jjacq

superu said:


> Would just like to add my opinion here.
> 
> 1. I would like to buy a complete device - this includes, power cord, knobs, feet and buttons. I don't like DIY projects because I'm not real handy - unfortunately.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't understand, was there every any indication that it'll arrive incomplete besides the power cord? In terms of the feet, Dr Cavalli had said it's not needed because of how the enclosure is designed but  for those who want to customize and that's up to them to buy and whatnot. The LC is delayed because of the change in power knob and if we had to supply that then it wouldn't be delayed no?

 I don't know, I might be missing key information here but besides interconnects and a power cord, I think it's implied that the LC will come complete and ready to set up when it ships to our doors.


----------



## SuperU

jjacq said:


> I don't understand, was there every any indication that it'll arrive incomplete besides the power cord? In terms of the feet, Dr Cavalli had said it's not needed because of how the enclosure is designed but  for those who want to customize and that's up to them to buy and whatnot. The LC is delayed because of the change in power knob and if we had to supply that then it wouldn't be delayed no?
> 
> I don't know, I might be missing key information here but besides interconnects and a power cord, I think it's implied that the LC will come complete and ready to set up when it ships to our doors.


 
 Fantastic, that's what I was hoping.


----------



## runeight

This is correct, the LC will come a complete unit. Nothing has changed nor would it be possible to change anything at this stage of progress. The built-in feet will do a fine job, but someone may prefer to use stick on rubber feet.
  


poimandres said:


> Any updates Dr. Cavalli on the LC's production progress?


 
  
 Good question. The pot manufacturer emailed me yesterday saying pots would ship about 9/3. This is a little later than their initial prediction, but we can continue with other aspects of production so as not to lose any more time than necessary.


----------



## doctorjazz

bucketinabucket said:


> runeight said:
> 
> 
> > The SMPS is a custom design specific to the Carbon. Only the transformer is a custom made part. It makes +/-15V rails and runs anywhere from 85VAC to 265VAC 50/60Hz. There is no need for post regulation since the SMPS itself has built-in regulation. There is, however, ample capacitance after the SMPS both from rails to ground and rail to rail.
> ...




Is the drooling over the "ample capacitance" or the "built in regulation"? Or maybe the custom transformer?


----------



## BucketInABucket

doctorjazz said:


> Is the drooling over the "ample capacitance" or the "built in regulation"? Or maybe the custom transformer?


 
 I'm drooling over how something so small as that SMPS can output such quality power! It's a right PITA minimizing electronics into that kind of form factor and I'm impressed how Alex has managed to pull it off


----------



## pippen99

runeight said:


> This is correct, the LC will come a complete unit. Nothing has changed nor would it be possible to change anything at this stage of progress. The built-in feet will do a fine job, but someone may prefer to use stick on rubber feet.
> 
> 
> Good question. The pot manufacturer emailed me yesterday saying pots would ship about 9/3. This is a little later than their initial prediction, but we can continue with other aspects of production so as not to lose any more time than necessary.


 
 Ouch!  That may make getting mine(order# 462) for the 9/26 Nashville meet borderline to unlikely.  Oh well!


----------



## defbear

I'm thinking more Halloween-ish. Have all 500 sold out yet?


----------



## DecentLevi

Good things come to those who wait... may the man who can stick it out the longest get the coolest sound


----------



## Cardiiiii

When the Dr refers to the 'volume pot' does he mean the volume knob or something to do with circuitry?


----------



## ejong7

cardiiiii said:


> When the Dr refers to the 'volume pot' does he mean the volume knob or something to do with circuitry?


 

 The volume knob.


----------



## Poimandres

Dr Cavalli with the pot delay will more units be initially shipping once the pots are received?


----------



## Poimandres

ejong7 said:


> The volume knob.



He is referring to the volume potentiometer which is part of the circuit.


----------



## AxelCloris

decentlevi said:


> Good things come to those who wait... may the man who can stick it out the longest get the coolest sound


 
  
 LH Labs Wave backers?


----------



## vhsownsbeta

axelcloris said:


> LH Labs Wave backers?


 

 Smeggy thunderpants!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

vhsownsbeta said:


> Smeggy thunderpants!


 
  
 Amen brother....


----------



## vhsownsbeta

buttuglyjeff said:


> Amen brother....


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

vhsownsbeta said:


>


 
  
 I at least have a pic of mine, to keep me warm on those cold cold nights...


----------



## runeight

poimandres said:


> Dr Cavalli with the pot delay will more units be initially shipping once the pots are received?


 
  
 Possibly. It's all a matter of how the other pieces are finished and in what order. You plan for one sequence of events, but almost always in a real production run the world changes the sequence and you have to adjust.
  
 The thing with the vol pots is fairly minor compared to some other production problems I've seen. It's just the timing. So we will try to fill the time with as much other construction as we can so that when the pots arrive we can accommodate quickly. But, still, I would say we are in the critical phase of production where all the pieces have to come together right.
  
 I never like to give up on production timing until it just becomes impossible, so while there is definitely a delay, I hope to make it as small as humanly possible.


----------



## immtbiker

runeight said:


> The pot manufacturer emailed me yesterday saying pots would ship about 9/3.


 
  
 In the '70's, all it took was a phone call to get pots from my "manufacturer".


----------



## musiclvr

runeight said:


> Possibly. It's all a matter of how the other pieces are finished and in what order. You plan for one sequence of events, but almost always in a real production run the world changes the sequence and you have to adjust.
> 
> The thing with the vol pots is fairly minor compared to some other production problems I've seen. It's just the timing. So we will try to fill the time with as much other construction as we can so that when the pots arrive we can accommodate quickly. But, still, I would say we are in the critical phase of production where all the pieces have to come together right.
> 
> I never like to give up on production timing until it just becomes impossible, so while there is definitely a delay, I hope to make it as small as humanly possible.



I just want to thank the Good Doctor Mr. Cavalli for his patience, transparency, and willingness in appeasing our impatience/plethora of questioning as well as creating the LC. I am truly excited to be receiving a Cavalli Audio product at this price point. I am happy to not necessarily anticipate a foreseeable shipping date per say, rather, I look forward to a product that meets the standards of the Cavalli namesake. "Measure thrice, cut once" I think applies to this situation too.


----------



## reddog

immtbiker said:


> In the '70's, all it took was a phone call to get pots from my "manufacturer".



Lol that is funny. God bless the 70's.


----------



## doctorjazz

immtbiker said:


> runeight said:
> 
> 
> > The pot manufacturer emailed me yesterday saying pots would ship about 9/3.
> ...




The best way to improve soundstage! (now have to rely on electronics...)


----------



## Luckbad

I finally jumped on this. Pre-order complete.


----------



## buke9

pippen99 said:


> Ouch!  That may make getting mine(order# 462) for the 9/26 Nashville meet borderline to unlikely.  Oh well!


 
 I was thinking the same thing. My # is 100000682 hopefully I'll see them this year.


----------



## Jozurr

If I go ahead and order the amp now, when can I expect it to ship? I don't need an exact date, and a ballpark one would do.


----------



## A2029

jozurr said:


> If I go ahead and order the amp now, when can I expect it to ship? I don't need an exact date, and a ballpark one would do.


 
  
 Ballpark; sometime in October. If it ships earlier than that, you will be happy


----------



## jamato8

immtbiker said:


> In the '70's, all it took was a phone call to get pots from my "manufacturer".


 

 I just stepped out my back door.


----------



## Zombie_X

Looks very interesting. I just hope it lives up to it's $499 price tag. I always felt Cavalli gear was overpriced for what you got, so this looks like it could be great.


----------



## AxelCloris

zombie_x said:


> Looks very interesting. I just hope it lives up to it's $499 price tag. I always felt Cavalli gear was overpriced for what you got, so this looks like it could be great.


 
  
 It had better live up to a $499 price tag, because it's actually $599. 
  
 Hint: It certainly does.


----------



## longbowbbs

.


----------



## Zombie_X

I reserve judgement till I hear one in person. I had only heard the Liquid Fire and that thing is vastly overpriced for it's performance. So I may be a bit biased here 
  
 longbowbbs, I am not trolling. Are we not all allowed to express how we feel? I don't wish to start a flame war or anything, but how have I posted wrong info in this thread? Is it that I think Cavalli stuff is way overpriced? Not everyone likes the same thing, similar to how I like the HD700 but a lot of people hate them.


----------



## Poimandres

Opinions are just that. There are others who don't feel the same way and others that do.

Certainly give it a listen before passing judgement.


----------



## Zombie_X

I'll give it a listen before any judgement is passed. It looks good from all I've heard, I'm just a tiny bit skeptical.
  
 Quote:


poimandres said:


> Opinions are just that. There are others who don't feel the same way and others that do.
> 
> Certainly give it a listen before passing judgement.


----------



## Stillhart




----------



## gr8soundz

zombie_x said:


> I reserve judgement till I hear one in person. I had only heard the Liquid Fire and that thing is vastly overpriced for it's performance. So I may be a bit biased here


 
  
 I'm interested to know what other amps you'll be comparing the LC to?


----------



## Evshrug

swich401 said:


> Ballpark; sometime in October. If it ships earlier than that, you will be happy



This! While I completely understand the delay and appreciate the Quality Control, it's a lot better to under promise and over deliver  I hope October is on the "safe-side" for the first batch (the first 200 or so units for those that reserved back when the thread started) because I'm part of that group that ordered almost 5 months ago, but I don't know if all 500 will all be built and held to all be sent at the same time. If you order now, I highly doubt you'll also wait 5 months, so just manage expectations a little 

I'm sure someone will have a prototype Liquid Carbon at RMAF to give me a taste if it comes to that, but it's still entirely feasible for the first orders to begin arriving in September.

Nice thing about this price level of equipment, I don't "need" it and have other gear to use in the meantime, but I certainly appreciate the QC that will ensure the Liquid Carbon will be a noticeable upgrade 





zombie_x said:


> Looks very interesting. I just hope it lives up to it's $599 price tag.




Yeah man, hopefully you'll get to a meet sometime and hear one! Soon, I expect it will show up at many meets, though again this may be a limited run and the amp might become harder to buy.


----------



## Evshrug

gr8soundz said:


> I'm interested to know what other amps you'll be comparing the LC to?




From his profile
- Violectric V200 (does it sound vaginal?)
- Audio-GD ROC
- SPL Auditor
- Schiit Magni 2

Jk about the () for the V200, and I don't know if he still has all four of those. Definitely some different flavors in there.

His comments would seem less anti-hype and more neutral, if only his avatar portrait didn't have his nose up in the air  (surely, he was really trying to catch a whiff of what was cooking for dinner!)


----------



## bearFNF

I would also like it if he would do a little reading and research before posting... gets a lot of things wrong and makes bad assumptions...I mean come on the price is in the thread title even...


----------



## Evshrug

bearfnf said:


> I would also like it if he would do a little reading and research before posting... gets a lot of things wrong and makes bad assumptions...



Yeah, I was going for light-hearted, but i agree that those are the points that will earn Zombie some backlash. He's not trying to upset anyone though, and when he learns how to sound less suspicious he will actually be able to share his "manage expectations" and value point of view more effectively, and we could all move on normally.


----------



## gr8soundz

bearfnf said:


> I would also like it if he would do a little reading and research before posting... gets a lot of things wrong and makes bad assumptions...I mean come on the price is in the thread title even...


 

 +1
  
 I asked about the other amps as I'm not aware of many other full balanced, transportable desktop ones like the LC. Not to mention the level of engineering, materials, expertise, commitment (by Alex), and made in the USA at this price.


----------



## Luckbad

I'm probably going to derail things here (if so, I can make a thread), but what are some affordable balanced dacs that would pair well with the Liquid Carbon?


----------



## vhsownsbeta

luckbad said:


> I'm probably going to derail things here (if so, I can make a thread), but what are some affordable balanced dacs that would pair well with the Liquid Carbon?


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go


----------



## mscott58

vhsownsbeta said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go


 
 Nice redirect Paul!


----------



## defbear

So the project has been delayed by the volume pot eh? Well GOOD! When you think about all the money, the equipment, the cables, all the sweat. What do you get when you are finished with the system! One Volume Control. Well, better make it a good one  Thank you Dr.


----------



## Luckbad

vhsownsbeta said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go



Woo thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

gr8soundz said:


> +1
> 
> I asked about the other amps as I'm not aware of many other full balanced, transportable desktop ones like the LC. Not to mention the level of engineering, materials, expertise, commitment (by Alex), and made in the USA at this price.




Right, there are a lot of things that make the LC unique. I'm still curious how this low-distortion, low feedback design will sound, in addition to this being my first balanced amp.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

mscott58 said:


> Nice redirect Paul!


 

 Hehe, it's like a 'right of passage' in this thread...
  
 Buy the amp. Ask the question. Get redirected.
  
 Apart from those of us who were here at the start, of course...


----------



## gr8soundz

evshrug said:


> Right, there are a lot of things that make the LC unique. I'm still curious how this low-distortion, low feedback design will sound, in addition to this being my first balanced amp.


 
  
 1st balanced amp as well. Started balanced with the Pono, now can't go back to SE. Hoping the LC takes pushes my sound much farther ahead.


----------



## Evshrug

See, I like my SE AKGs, but I don't have balanced headphones yet. Somewhere mid-September I have a pair of CustomArt CIEMs arriving and I'll have a friend make me a balanced cable for them, maybe my Oppo PM-3 too if I still have them by then (I just generally don't like closed headphones for heat reasons). I've already heard impressive things with my SE headphones so far and know what a good amp like the LC will do for them (or at least suspect, ha), but it will be cool.

What balanced headphones are you looking forward to using with the LC?


----------



## Zombie_X

Probably the only amps I have on hand. Maybe the Zana Deux I have coming on loan. It all depends when i gt to hear one of these. Heck I'll shoot Cavalli an e-mail and see what they say to me getting one to demo.
  
 About me posting the wrong price though, it was based off what I read earlier in the thread, and I didn't read the whole thread. So yeah I was off. Even at $599 a transportable balanced amp sounds very nice, but IMO balancing doesn't make a huge difference. Don't flame me or anything guys! Now the only portable balanced amp I tried was from Ray Samuels, but I don't remember the model number. It was a good amp, though a bit too much from any of my portables.
  
 The way I post is straight to the point, no sugar coating, very honest, and no unwarranted words or anything of the sort. I don't follow the typical Head-Fi hype train and am more neutral, as Evshrug said. I can see it can grind people gears but that's how I am. So guys, I'm am sorry but I won't sugar coat things for you. Also don't misconstrued my words for anti-hype or product hate, I am merely posting exactly how I feel without buttering up my words for the community. If you don't like how I post then I don't know what to tell you.
  
 Quote:


gr8soundz said:


> I'm interested to know what other amps you'll be comparing the LC to?


----------



## Evshrug

Hey, I found the DT880 to have fatiguing highs and thin mids, I tell people that it might be a polarizing experience but a learning one. Might try their big squared closed lineup someday (DT150) or a closed portable.

Yeah, we don't know if the LC will be worth the money (objectively or if subjective mileage may vary). But it also could be really good.


----------



## Zombie_X

I shot Cavalli an e-mail to get a demo unit, so we'll see what they say. I am very optimistic though. The amp look to be very good. Honestly I should just shut up till I hear from them before Cavalli themselves sends hitmen at me to silence me...gulp..
  
 Quote:


evshrug said:


> Hey, I found the DT880 to have fatiguing highs and thin mids, I tell people that it might be a polarizing experience but a learning one. Might try their big squared closed lineup someday (DT150) or a closed portable.
> 
> Yeah, we don't know if the LC will be worth the money (objectively or if subjective mileage may vary). But it also could be really good.


----------



## gr8soundz

evshrug said:


> See, I like my SE AKGs, but I don't have balanced headphones yet. Somewhere mid-September I have a pair of CustomArt CIEMs arriving and I'll have a friend make me a balanced cable for them, maybe my Oppo PM-3 too if I still have them by then (I just generally don't like closed headphones for heat reasons). I've already heard impressive things with my SE headphones so far and know what a good amp like the LC will do for them (or at least suspect, ha), but it will be cool.
> 
> What balanced headphones are you looking forward to using with the LC?


 
  
 You will LOVE the PM-3 balanced! I use them with my Pono and have an adapter waiting for balanced with the LC.
  
 Also have the Sony Z7 but am looking most forward to trying my HD598s (picked up a modded 4-pin xlr cable for it). Found I preferred the 598 over the HD650 plus one of the guys who tried a pre-production unit (can't remember if it was DecentLevi or Stillhart) said they thought the LC might pair better with brighter, wider soundstage headphones (2 areas where imo the 598 shines over the 650).


----------



## Evshrug

Pew pew!
Pretty sure they don't have any review units left. Alex Cavalli seems like a nice guy though (and I've been appreciating his updates about the production process in the thread here), so I don't think his small company would use their resources that way. If I remember correctly, he's finished his main career and is doing amps on a smaller scale and more for passion (only 500 units of his most affordable design planned for this year, maybe ever? I bet FiiO or Beyer sell more amps than that per month!), so I bet he feels about comments the same way any DIY vendor would.


----------



## Evshrug

gr8soundz said:


> You will LOVE the PM-3 balanced! I use them with my Pono and have an adapter waiting for balanced with the LC.
> 
> Also have the Sony Z7 but am looking most forward to trying my HD598s (picked up a modded 4-pin xlr cable for it). Found I preferred the 598 over the HD650 plus one of the guys who tried a pre-production unit (can't remember if it was DecentLevi or Stillhart) said they thought the LC might pair better with brighter, wider soundstage headphones (2 areas where imo the 598 shines over the 650).




I've wanted to try the HD598 for a few years, kicking myself for missing the $100 Black Friday sale on those last year but I was saving my funbudget money for something else. I HAD an HD700 and tighter control/less distortion in the treble from the LC could've helped refine that headphone, my tube amp helped despite having a slightly brighter tube in it (it's more powerful/less distortion than my soundcard I had then), but the HD700 didn't fit for me between my AKG K712 and my vintage Stax, so it got sold.

This may sound bonkers, but I might possibly go sell my PM-3 and V-Moda because they overlap the intended use for the incoming CIEMs, then get an Oppo PM-2 with a balanced cable (and velour pads for long gaming sessions), and use my Bifrost Uber + Liquid Carbon + CustomArt CIEMS/AKG K612/Oppo PM-2. The stax can stay connected to my home theater AVR, lol.


----------



## adobotj

gr8soundz said:


> You will LOVE the PM-3 balanced! I use them with my Pono and have an adapter waiting for balanced with the LC.
> 
> Also have the Sony Z7 but am looking most forward to trying my HD598s (picked up a modded 4-pin xlr cable for it). Found I preferred the 598 over the HD650 plus one of the guys who tried a pre-production unit (can't remember if it was DecentLevi or Stillhart) said they thought the LC might pair better with brighter, wider soundstage headphones (2 areas where imo the 598 shines over the 650).



HD598 is a very well rounded headphones. I have them and I loved them for their comfort and sound for what I payed for. Just don't listen to HD800 though. I just use the 598s SE and haven't tried making it balanced but I really like it's sound signature. I can't put my finger on its exact Sig but it's like a senn Sig that's more exciting? Will also try it se thru the LC.


----------



## DCDC

Gonna go off topic for a sec but I remember reading a post a couple pages back about the LC being a current mode amp, is it really? :O didn't remember reading about that but would be awesome if it were true! Itching to get the LC to run balanced with my LCD-X. No doubt it shall be sublime *__*


----------



## defbear

adobotj said:


> HD598 is a very well rounded headphones. I have them and I loved them for their comfort and sound for what I payed for. Just don't listen to HD800 though. I just use the 598s SE and haven't tried making it balanced but I really like it's sound signature. I can't put my finger on its exact Sig but it's like a senn Sig that's more exciting? Will also try it se thru the LC.


I have a set of hd598's. Even though I have hd800 and lcd2f phones I listen to the 598's a lot. They are detailed, have good bass and do not sound like the othrs. They are 4 wire so I had Surf Cables make me a balanced cable for them. And while waiting for my LC I bought a Master 11 which the 598's sound great through.


----------



## x RELIC x

dcdc said:


> Gonna go off topic for a sec but I remember reading a post a couple pages back about the LC being a current mode amp, is it really? :O didn't remember reading about that but would be awesome if it were true! Itching to get the LC to run balanced with my LCD-X. No doubt it shall be sublime *__*





Yes, the Liquid Carbon uses current feed back topology instead of voltage feedback topology. One of the main reasons I was interested in this amp in the first place. 





Spoiler: LC current feedback topology from Dr. Alex Cavalli






runeight said:


> An opamp is a particular circuit topology that was defined many years decades ago. There were, in fact, tube opamps. There are a small handful of topologies that are defined as opamps with a given, more or less well understood behavior.
> 
> Every chip opamp contains many devices on the silicon which make up the opamp circuit. Different chips have different quantities and types of devices depending on the specifics of the design, such as speed, current output, input device types, etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## cronsell

Does anyone know if utilizing current feedback topology will increase the response this amp has to a quality power cable or power source? I usually wouldn't go to extremes with something in this price category, but this amp (which I've also pre-ordered) seems to be in a category of its own, considering the design aspects and such.


----------



## Stillhart

cronsell said:


> Does anyone know if utilizing current feedback topology will increase the response this amp has to a quality power cable or power source? I usually wouldn't go to extremes with something in this price category, but this amp (which I've also pre-ordered) seems to be in a category of its own, considering the design aspects and such.


 
  
 If someone wants to buy me an expensive power cable, I'll be happy to test and report back.  Assuming that won't happen, I don't think anyone will know the answer to this until they hit the streets and folks start testing it.  
  
 Dr. Cavalli has tactfully chosen not to take a side on this issue other than to not provide a power cable with the unit so we can use the one of our choice.  
  
 And just so you know, any real discussion on this outside of the sound science forum is a good way to get our posts removed.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I actually do believe that the good doctor did reply to this topic.  I remember Alex talking many people's wallets off of the bridge in regards to power cords and power conditioners.  He instead encouraged that money instead be focused on getting headphones setup for balanced listening and buying quality interconnects.
  
 I don't need the Doctor to chime in for me to know he's a believer in power cords.  Just look at the first meets where he introduced the Liquid Carbon.  Look at those photos and you'll see the LC being fed power with a fire hose.  But keep in mind, he works in a world where his prior entry level amp is $3000.  A $500 power cable doesn't seem outrageous when it's only 1/6 the price of the amp.
  
 I think its nice that he's trying to temper the masses as to where and when to save a few bucks....


----------



## Stillhart

Alright, some new facts for folks to chew on:
  
 I finally have a second DAC that has both SE and Balanced outputs.  The first was my vintage Theta Basic II and now I have the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (GMB or Gumby).  When I tested the Theta through both the SE and Balanced inputs on the LC, I heard no difference.  This led me to believe that the phase splitter was pretty bad ass.
  
 Last night I tested the Gumby in the same way and, lo and behold, there was a clear difference.  The mids are noticeably thinner and the soundstage is slightly smaller when using it via SE.  The overall volume stays the same -- for instance the bass sounds exactly the same but everything else thins out. 
  
 "Oh no," you may be thinking, "I thought you said SE DAC's were fine and now they're not!"  No worries, there's good news there.  
  
 I've said it many times and I will continue to say it: a well-implemented SE DAC can sound better than a poorly implemented balanced DAC.  I've been doing a lot of testing between the DAC-19 (SE) and the GMB (Balanced).  I'll be posting more impressions in a few days (waiting for a new cable to come in), but the reason this is taking so long is because they're so close in sound.  The SE DAC-19 is very competitive with the balanced GMB and sounds better than the SE GMB.  This would seem to back up my assertion above.
  
 The moral of the story:  phase splitter isn't as almighty as I made it out to be, but it's still good.  IMO, making sure your DAC is well implemented should be a higher priority than making sure it's balanced.
  
 EDIT - For great justice!


----------



## doctorjazz

You didn't specify which setting sounded thin on the GUMBY, but I'm assuming it was the SE...
Nice impressions...you're a hard worker!


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> You didn't specify which setting sounded thin on the GUMBY, but I'm assuming it was the SE...
> Nice impressions...you're a hard worker!


 
  
 You're right, sorry!  Edited that in there.
  
 And thanks, tho I don't know how much I'd call it "work".  :-D


----------



## sahmen

stillhart said:


> "The SE DAC-19 is very competitive with the balanced GMB and sounds better than the SE GMB."


 
 That line right there got my impatience to read your review spiking wildly into the red zone!  You, sir, can throw a mean tease


----------



## Stillhart

sahmen said:


> That line right there got my impatience to read your review spiking wildly into the red zone!  You, sir, can throw a mean tease


 
  
 Aww, Sensei @warrenpchi would be so proud of me right now!


----------



## Luckbad

@Stillhart
  
 Just read your preview. Great read. It's making me believe that this amp is going to be perfect for my Fostex TH600. I've been trying to decide whether to sell that or the JVC HP-DX1000, and if it pairs with the Fostex as well as it seems (rolled off highs = perfect for it), I might have to try the DX1000. Agh! Gotta let one go since I bought the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Stillhart

luckbad said:


> @Stillhart
> 
> Just read your preview. Great read. It's making me believe that this amp is going to be perfect for my Fostex TH600. I've been trying to decide whether to sell that or the JVC HP-DX1000, and if it pairs with the Fostex as well as it seems (rolled off highs = perfect for it), I might have to try the DX1000. Agh! Gotta let one go since I bought the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 For the record, I don't think the highs are rolled off anymore.  I think the other amp I was using was unusually bright.  It just seemed that way in comparison.  
  
 Maybe I should update my preview a bit...


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> The moral of the story:  phase splitter isn't as almighty as I made it out to be, but it's still good.  IMO, making sure your DAC is well implemented should be a higher priority than making sure it's balanced.


 

  
 Man this DAC thing is getting complicated. Just when I think balancing is the key, other factors step in to decide which DACs are better (kinda like choosing headphones). I'm already broke thanks to trying different headphones. I'll be homeless trying to A/B that many DACs!
  
 No thanks to Alex and the LC and now Stillhart clarifying stuff. Imagine where we'd be right now if the LC never existed.


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


>





> Imagine where we'd be right now if the LC never existed.


 
  
 Happily listening to our M+M stacks with our M50's no doubt.


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> Happily listening to our M+M stacks with out M50's no doubt.


 
  
 Ignorance IS bliss.......


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I'd just blow that money on liquor and cigars....


----------



## SuperU

Hey @Stillhart - great stuff you are posting. Thank you.
  
 I haven't seen you comment on this, though perhaps I've missed it - it's hard to keep up. LOL
  
 Can I ask what your thoughts are on the Uber Bifrost paired with the LC? 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

superu said:


> Hey @Stillhart - great stuff you are posting. Thank you.
> 
> I haven't seen you comment on this, though perhaps I've missed it - it's hard to keep up. LOL
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've actually never heard the Uberfrost.  @Evshrug has one that I might be able to borrow at some point, haven't heard it yet.
  
 Still, it's got a pretty stellar reputation.  If you like the Schiit house sound, it's certainly one of the more obvious choices of a small DAC in a similar price range to the LC.


----------



## SuperU

stillhart said:


> I've actually never heard the Uberfrost.  @Evshrug has one that I might be able to borrow at some point, haven't heard it yet.
> 
> Still, it's got a pretty stellar reputation.  If you like the Schiit house sound, it's certainly one of the more obvious choices of a small DAC in a similar price range to the LC.


 
 Thanks. Really appreciate it.
  
 I'm thinking about upgrading so I can use the Uberfrost bedside. Could spend up to the amount of the Yggy. But I'm lost as to what would be the best. It's not that I'm sold on Schiit (though they have been good to work with), just want to get the best bang for the buck. 
  
 Then one day I would like to go to one of the higher end Cavalli amps and want the DAC to work wonderfully with it and my LCD-X. Thoughts?
  
 I'm excited to get my feet wet with the LC on my journey towards audio nirvana.


----------



## doctorjazz

Head-Fi has its own version of the vow of poverty


----------



## Stillhart

superu said:


> Thanks. Really appreciate it.
> 
> I'm thinking about upgrading so I can use the Uberfrost bedside. Could spend up to the amount of the Yggy. But I'm lost as to what would be the best. It's not that I'm sold on Schiit (though they have been good to work with), just want to get the best bang for the buck.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My honest advice?  Spend some of that money on a flight to CO and hit up Canjam next month.  Go listen to a bunch of gear and decide for yourself what sounds good.  Nobody can tell you what will sound good to you but you.


----------



## SuperU

stillhart said:


> My honest advice?  Spend some of that money on a flight to CO and hit up Canjam next month.  Go listen to a bunch of gear and decide for yourself what sounds good.  Nobody can tell you what will sound good to you but you.


 
 Great advice. And I wish it was something easy to do. I live in Central America. A plane ticket and hotels would cost more than the multibit Gungnir. So far I've done pretty well listening to those who know much more than I do, such as you. But your point is very well taken.
  
 One great thing for me is that I don't know what I don't know. LOL What I have sounds great. I imagine there is better. Thus purchased the LC but have an Asgard 2. Could always use an extra station to listen in another area.
  
 I really appreciate the info you are giving here. Thanks.


----------



## aamefford

@Stillhart am I mistaken, or does your evidence of the GMB single ended vs the Dac-19 single ended vs the Theta balanced vs single ended vs the GMB balanced vs single ended really point out that the SE implimentation on the GMB is the weakest of the above, and not so much that the phase splitter on the LC is not so great?
  
 I'm not trying to be cheeky or to bash the SE implimentation on the GMB, but unless I missed something, all the "good" SE implimentations above (Theta SE, Dac-19) went through the phase splitter, along with the "less good" implimentation above, the GMB SE?  The other "good" implimentations were of course the balanced Theta and GMB.
  
 This just seems to show:
 1) that not all dac implimentations/circuits/outputs are created equal
 2) The phase splitter is probably just fine
 3) The balanced output is the preferred output for the GMB
  
 Or did I missinterpret or just plaiin miss something?


----------



## warrenpchi

runeight said:


> hemtmaker said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks. By the way, how tall are the included rubber feet?
> ...


 
  
 From my "experience" (ahem), keyed feet of a specific shape and orientation usually signals some intention to mate it with another complementary and matching component.  I wonder what would constitute such a thing?  Wait, did I just say that out loud?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  TREASEL!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


evshrug said:


> - Violectric V200 (does it sound vaginal?)


 
  
 LOL!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


stillhart said:


> The moral of the story:  phase splitter isn't as almighty as I made it out to be, but it's still good.


 
  
 And thus, the DAC-finding thread is re-ignited!
  


stillhart said:


> Aww, Sensei @warrenpchi would be so proud of me right now!


 
  
 You have done well grasshopper!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


superu said:


> Great advice. And I wish it was something easy to do. I live in Central America.


 
  
 Is California easier?  We're only days away from announcing anyway, but if you promise to keep it in this thread and no further until this coming Saturday...
  


Spoiler: TREASEL!


----------



## SuperU

warrenpchi said:


> Is California easier?  We're only days away from announcing anyway, but if you promise to keep it in this thread and no further until this coming Saturday...


 
 Unfortunately, it's not. It is a complete PITA to try to get out of here, not to mention super expensive. Though I salivate at the thought of it.
  
 I'm probably better finding a reasonable consensus, spending a bunch of money and having something amazing (even though I would not know it is amazing via comparison, like I would if I made it to a Canjam. Well, I'd know if it sounds better than what I have now.


----------



## x RELIC x

Spoiler: Quote from aamefford






aamefford said:


> @Stillhart
> am I mistaken, or does your evidence of the GMB single ended vs the Dac-19 single ended vs the Theta balanced vs single ended vs the GMB balanced vs single ended really point out that the SE implimentation on the GMB is the weakest of the above, and not so much that the phase splitter on the LC is not so great?
> 
> I'm not trying to be cheeky or to bash the SE implimentation on the GMB, but unless I missed something, all the "good" SE implimentations above (Theta SE, Dac-19) went through the phase splitter, along with the "less good" implimentation above, the GMB SE?  The other "good" implimentations were of course the balanced Theta and GMB.
> ...






That's exactly how I read it as well.


----------



## mandrake50

gr8soundz said:


> Ignorance IS bliss.......


 

 AND compulsive..."I gots to have something better" (even while not knowing what better is) IS Hell!
  
 At least to the bank account!


----------



## warrenpchi

superu said:


> I'm probably better finding a reasonable consensus


 
  
 On that note, I am continually surprised at the feedback on the LC so far.  Hundreds have auditioned under meet conditions, about a dozen have auditioned under loan conditions, and not a single negative impression so far.  That's pretty darned impressive.


----------



## x RELIC x

warrenpchi said:


> On that note, I am continually surprised at the feedback on the LC so far.  Hundreds have auditioned under meet conditions, about a dozen have auditioned under loan conditions, and not a single negative impression so far.  That's pretty darned impressive.




That's what I was eluding to earlier in the thread. Simply not read this on Head-Fi before. Interested to see if users who haven't heard the Liquid Carbon, like myself, have a different opinion after receiving the unit....... Especially after all the hype.


----------



## gr8soundz

warrenpchi said:


> On that note, I am continually surprised at the feedback on the LC so far.  Hundreds have auditioned under meet conditions, about a dozen have auditioned under loan conditions, and not a single negative impression so far.  That's pretty darned impressive.


 
 +1


----------



## Luckbad

I'm worried the hype will make me blame the dac if I don't instantly love the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## bearFNF

warrenpchi said:


> On that note, I am continually surprised at the feedback on the LC so far.  Hundreds have auditioned under meet conditions, about a dozen have auditioned under loan conditions, and not a single negative impression so far.  That's pretty darned impressive.


 

 Um, you must have missed it but I did make some negative comments about the SE output to my Roxannes having noise. Good news is that Alex said he was improving it. Jury still out until I get it and see for myself.


----------



## SuperU

mandrake50 said:


> AND compulsive..."I gots to have something better" (even while not knowing what better is) IS Hell!
> 
> At least to the bank account!


 
 Ha ha - so very true. I'm aware how silly my words sound, but I can admit it here amongst all my fellow sound junkies. And hey, thanks to a number of you, I'm doing pretty darn well with my initial purchases.


----------



## DecentLevi

stillhart said:


> Alright, some new facts for folks to chew on:
> 
> I finally have a second DAC that has both SE and Balanced outputs.  The first was my vintage Theta Basic II and now I have the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (GMB or Gumby).  When I tested the Theta through both the SE and Balanced inputs on the LC, I heard no difference.  This led me to believe that the phase splitter was pretty bad ass.
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome tips Dan! That confirms my 'hypothesis' that whether an equally good SE transport can be had from a DAC versus balanced, depends on how well the SE section is of your DAC. But then of course the only way to know that answer is to compare both outputs for yourself (assuming you have one that has both output types), and then it depends on which sound signature you prefer, since 'fidelity is in the ear of the beholder' rather than taking quoted text as 'the one and only truth'.


----------



## Emerpus

stillhart said:


> Alright, some new facts for folks to chew on:
> 
> I finally have a second DAC that has both SE and Balanced outputs.  The first was my vintage Theta Basic II and now I have the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (GMB or Gumby).  When I tested the Theta through both the SE and Balanced inputs on the LC, I heard no difference.  This led me to believe that the phase splitter was pretty bad ass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So looks like we will need @Jason Stoddard to quickly release an affordable Sys 2 with 2 sets of 3-pin XLR output


----------



## SuperU

warrenpchi said:


> On that note, I am continually surprised at the feedback on the LC so far.  Hundreds have auditioned under meet conditions, about a dozen have auditioned under loan conditions, and not a single negative impression so far.  That's pretty darned impressive.


 
 Yes, I'm thrilled so far as well. I actually wonder if I'll want to upgrade beyond it to one of the LC's big brothers.
  
 I have to say, one of the reasons I bought this was because of my interactions with Dr. Cavalli. I feel as if he guided me well. I have much confidence in what he said. So the fact that I'm hearing nothing negative about him, his company or the LC is extremely reassuring. 
  
 And I cant wait to hear the difference in the sound signature between Schiit and Cavalli.


----------



## runeight

stillhart said:


> Alright, some new facts for folks to chew on:
> 
> I finally have a second DAC that has both SE and Balanced outputs.  The first was my vintage Theta Basic II and now I have the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (GMB or Gumby).  When I tested the Theta through both the SE and Balanced inputs on the LC, I heard no difference.  This led me to believe that the phase splitter was pretty bad ass.
> 
> Last night I tested the Gumby in the same way and, lo and behold, there was a clear difference.  The mids are noticeably thinner and the soundstage is slightly smaller when using it via SE.  The overall volume stays the same -- for instance the bass sounds exactly the same but everything else thins out.


 
  
 I've copied a partial quote and not to insert myself into a very important discussion, it seems to me that the other possibility is that the Gumby SE is not as good as the balanced out and you may be hearing that. Since you don't hear a difference with the Basic II this would suggest that the Carbon is faithful with its SE input. At least this seems reasonable to me.


----------



## DecentLevi

doctorjazz said:


> Head-Fi has its own version of the vow of poverty


 
 Better idea: how about Head-Fi charging a monthly subscription to the site for access to unlimited audio gear, instead of making us purchase every litle gadget on faith just to 'test the waters'
  
 EDIT: don't take the above seriously, otherwise I'd estimate that subscription would run an average of... maybe $600/month to equal our average spending


----------



## Stillhart

runeight said:


> The LC isn't really optimized for either type of operation. It's a balanced amp that can accept SE input and deliver SE output.
> 
> But, let's clarify the input. I think we've already talked about the SE vs. Bal output enough, but maybe more detail on how the input works would be helpful.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


aamefford said:


> @Stillhart am I mistaken, or does your evidence of the GMB single ended vs the Dac-19 single ended vs the Theta balanced vs single ended vs the GMB balanced vs single ended really point out that the SE implimentation on the GMB is the weakest of the above, and not so much that the phase splitter on the LC is not so great?
> 
> I'm not trying to be cheeky or to bash the SE implimentation on the GMB, but unless I missed something, all the "good" SE implimentations above (Theta SE, Dac-19) went through the phase splitter, along with the "less good" implimentation above, the GMB SE?  The other "good" implimentations were of course the balanced Theta and GMB.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


runeight said:


> I've copied a partial quote and not to insert myself into a very important discussion, it seems to me that the other possibility is that the Gumby SE is not as good as the balanced out and you may be hearing that. Since you don't hear a difference with the Basic II this would suggest that the Carbon is faithful with its SE input. At least this seems reasonable to me.


 
  
 Okay so I guess I didn't express myself clearly enough.  My apologies folks!  Looking at the first quote above, I get the distinct impression that the phase splitter does two things:  first it gives the benefits of balanced (like the soundstage and imaging) and second it equalizes the volume between SE and Balanced inputs.
  
 Now when I wrote my preview, I felt that the SE and Balanced outputs from the Theta sounded indistinguishable and I assumed this was wholly because of the phase splitter.  However without any other DAC's to test with, the jury was still out.  I had no way of knowing whether it was because the Theta just did SE as good as Balanced (or balanced as bad as SE, take your pick) or whether the phase splitter was working some additional magic.
  
 Last night I tested with second DAC.  It was clear that the SE output from the GMB is inferior to its balanced output.  What that showed me was that the phase splitter wasn't wholly responsible for the Theta's outputs sounding identical.  The phase splitter wasn't doing everything that I'd attributed to it at first.
  
 So yeah, I hope this clears it up a bit.  I don't mean any of that as a knock on the LC in any way; I fully agree with Dr. Cavalli that the Carbon is faithful to what's being fed into it.  In fact, my understanding of it now is that it's MORE faithful to what's being fed into it than I'd previously thought.  I'm not sure how that last post came across so negative but yeah, sorry guys!  lol


----------



## doctorjazz

I don't see the GMB differences as relating to the phase splitter...more that Schitt put more resources into the balanced portion of the GMB. A well implemented single ended dac (say , Audio Research) could still sound better than a lesser balanced unit, the splitter allowing you the benefits of the balanced LC whatever you use as source.


Oops, posted this earlier, when I first read the comparison. On vacation, staying in a place with lousy Wi-Fi, didn't go through until just now. I'm just going to stick my acs Encores into my Pono and my ears (great ciem, btw, remind me one day to tell the tale of my 9 month acs "adventure". But, all's well that ends well, as they say. Nighty night...


----------



## Jozurr

Do you guys know of any other good amps under $1000 which also have a phase splitter and can go balanced out (even though you have input as SE)?


----------



## hemtmaker

jozurr said:


> Do you guys know of any other good amps under $1000 which also have a phase splitter and can go balanced out (even though you have input as SE)?



Sr71B, although it's more for portable use


----------



## J4MES

Seeing as I want to get the most out of my LC when it arrives I need to get some balanced cables, specially for my Alpha Dogs and K10s. I'm going with Toxic Cable but need to know what termination to get. 

I am slightly confused on what connection I should be using for iem's. I think it is the 4 pin Kobiconn connection?

Any particular maker favourite at e moment for connections?


----------



## Stillhart

j4mes said:


> Seeing as I want to get the most out of my LC when it arrives I need to get some balanced cables, specially for my Alpha Dogs and K10s. I'm going with Toxic Cable but need to know what termination to get.
> 
> I am slightly confused on what connection I should be using for iem's. I think it is the 4 pin Kobiconn connection?
> 
> Any particular maker favourite at e moment for connections?


 
  
 Yep, 4-pin Kobiconn is correct.


----------



## bflat

stillhart said:


> Yep, 4-pin Kobiconn is correct.


 

 You might also see these listed as ALO and/or RSA balanced connector. If my history is correct, I believe Ray Samuels was the first to use this connector for a balanced portable amp and created the standard of how the 4 pins are wired.


----------



## Luckbad

stillhart said:


> Yep, 4-pin Kobiconn is correct.


 
  
 Is there any advantage to that connection vs. the standard XLR other than size? It seems like standard XLR is more common on amps, so when I reterminate my headphones I'll probably go with that unless there's an actual advantage to the Kobiconn/ALO/RSA connection.


----------



## A2029

luckbad said:


> Is there any advantage to that connection vs. the standard XLR other than size? It seems like standard XLR is more common on amps, so when I reterminate my headphones I'll probably go with that unless there's an actual advantage to the Kobiconn/ALO/RSA connection.


 
  
 For any full sized headphones, I would go with the 4-pin XLR connector. For any IEMs, it may be a better idea of going with the 4-pin Kobiconn as it is much more transportable in case you have an on-the-go amp with balanced RSA/Kobiconn connector.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, the wires are separated with both the connector types, it's just an XLR plug is fat and heavy and would look oddballs on an IEM. I liked Moon Audio's concept where they have a cable with an adapter end, and then you just change the tip depending on what you plug into.

warrenpchi
Yeah, you bet I read (some of) your posts, and laugh about them with my Fiancée (Her name is Christine, Dan's already married  )


----------



## jamato8

I have the Kobiconn on my full sized headphones and prefer it to the heavy connector often use. Also I see no advantage to using the XLR plug.


----------



## bearFNF

Only advantage I see is that the XLR is more common the the Kobiconn, the only amp I will (soon) have with the Kobiconn is the LC...


----------



## jamato8

bearfnf said:


> Only advantage I see is that the XLR is more common the the Kobiconn, the only amp I will (soon) have with the Kobiconn is the LC...


 

 True. But I have never liked the heavy clunky XLR connectors for headphones. They seem more like a weapon. lol


----------



## gr8soundz

bflat said:


> You might also see these listed as ALO and/or RSA balanced connector. If my history is correct, I believe Ray Samuels was the first to use this connector for a balanced portable amp and created the standard of how the 4 pins are wired.


 
  
 Guess that finally answers my question of where the RSA part of the name came from.
  


bearfnf said:


> Only advantage I see is that the XLR is more common the the Kobiconn, the only amp I will (soon) have with the Kobiconn is the LC...


 
  
 Same here. Wish there weren't so many balanced connector types but 1 size doesn't fit all especially for portables.
  
 Got all my headphone cables set for TRRS balanced and will use an XLR adapter with the LC. Wanted to get RSA adapters too but extra cost and the LC should work fine with XLR anyway. Will still keep an eye for any trrs to rsa adapters next.


----------



## bflat

gr8soundz said:


> Got all my headphone cables set for TRRS balanced and will use an XLR adapter with the LC. Wanted to get RSA adapters too but extra cost and the LC should work fine with XLR anyway. Will still keep an eye for any trrs to rsa adapters next.


 
  
 Contact Ted at Headphonelounge. He can make you any adapter you need with high quality OCC cable.


----------



## doctorjazz

I have Norne Zoetic cable, balanced, ending with the RSA connector, and adaptors that plug into it to connect to a balanced Pono and for single ended (for a HEK). I certainly wouldn't want anything heavier/bulkier than this!


----------



## dpump

Sometimes it is necessary to use a standard XLR connector because of the size of the cable you are using. A larger cable may not fit into the RSA connector. I would think you might also get a more solid connection with the XLR connector.


----------



## DaemonSire

Norne cables are excellent and the service that Trevor provides is really unmatched.  I have a Norne Zoetic cable and if I were ever needing to buy another cable, Norne would be the place I would go to.


----------



## mscott58

Trevor at Norne also makes a nice set of adapters for such purposes. I have a 4-pin XLR to 2.5mm TRRS adapter that allows me to play my K10's balanced through my Pulse Infinity and that I'll also be using on the LC.


----------



## jamato8

gr8soundz said:


> Guess that finally answers my question of where the RSA part of the name came from.


 
 Yes Ray came up with this a few years back. It was criticized as cheap and wouldn't last. It holds up to much use and I have never had a Kobiconn connector fail and they wear fantastic. 
  
 I have my TWau by Whiplash terminated with the Kobiconn so I can go balanced from it or use and adapter to whatever connector I want and the Whiplash cable I have is the modular, which is a Kobiconn at the Y so you don't have to buy anything but just the Y to the headphones in the future. A great system Craig came up with.


----------



## rcoleman1

dpump said:


> Sometimes it is necessary to use a standard XLR connector because of the size of the cable you are using. A larger cable may not fit into the RSA connector. I would think you might also get a more solid connection with the XLR connector.


 
 +1


----------



## mscott58

If you do decide to go RSA, Norne makes one of their nifty adapters to allow the RSA to connect to a 4-pin XLR to keep it balanced. 

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_91&product_id=100


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> If you do decide to go RSA, Norne makes one of their nifty adapters to allow the RSA to connect to a 4-pin XLR to keep it balanced.
> 
> http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_91&product_id=100


 
  
 And only $85!  What a bargain!


----------



## stjj89

stillhart said:


> And only $85!  What a bargain!


 
  
 Yeah, it blows my mind how high the price tag is on some of these adapters. I got a re-cabling done on my TH900 for less than that!


----------



## Stillhart

stjj89 said:


> Yeah, it blows my mind how high the price tag is on some of these adapters. I got a re-cabling done on my TH900 for less than that!


 
  
 Haha, me and Michael have had some nice discussions about cables.  He knows the poking is in good fun.  The great thing about expensive cables is that nobody is forcing anyone to buy one.  If people want to buy them and enjoy themselves, it's no skin off my back.  In the same way, my blissful ignorance on the potential benefits of something I can't afford is something I will hold dear for fear it'll bankrupt me if I don't!


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> mscott58 said:
> 
> 
> > If you do decide to go RSA, Norne makes one of their nifty adapters to allow the RSA to connect to a 4-pin XLR to keep it balanced.
> ...


 
  
 Yea that's pretty expensive for $10 in parts plus labor.


----------



## stjj89

stillhart said:


> Haha, me and Michael have had some nice discussions about cables.  He knows the poking is in good fun.  The great thing about expensive cables is that nobody is forcing anyone to buy one.  If people want to buy them and enjoy themselves, it's no skin off my back.  In the same way, my blissful ignorance on the potential benefits of something I can't afford is something I will hold dear for fear it'll bankrupt me if I don't!


 
  
 Yep, I agree with that. I actually am a (partial) cable believer, but I just wonder sometimes how much of the pricing is just markup vs. material cost and workmanship. That's another discussion for another thread though


----------



## gr8soundz

stillhart said:


> And only $85!  What a bargain!


 
  
 I agree however, in Norne's defense (based on what little I know about cabling), there's more work involved making these super (hyper) short connections. Like cutting or machining pieces to make them fit within such a short distance.
  
 I'm all for more reasonable pricing (even got a few adapters via Amazon for around $15-20 apiece) but the extra work involved here may be worth it. The Hyper-shorts certainly look more robust and higher quality than the 6-inch wired adapters I got.


----------



## bflat

Well I lost a bet to a good friend. Here is my upgraded Gungnir Multi-bit warming up in front of me and still waiting on LC. I think a lot of folks thought Schiitt would take another few months. Now that was faster than, well......Schiitt through a goose! Got my balanced cables and pretty power cable now waiting on LC! Maybe my GMB will be warmed up by then.


----------



## warrenpchi

evshrug said:


> @warrenpchi
> Yeah, you bet I read (some of) your posts, and laugh about them with my Fiancée (Her name is Christine, Dan's already married  )


 
  
 Lol, I have no idea what you're talking about.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 BTW guys, just to chime in on the IEM cable discussion... I would personally do the following when sourcing a balanced cable for IEMs:
  
 1.  Get them terminated for A&K players (2.5mm TRRS).  That is about as small as it can get.
 2.  Get adapters built for all other terminations (RSA, XLR, etc.).


----------



## Evshrug

It's a good idea, but question... Is it possible to have a balanced 3.5mm? And if you plug that straight into an iPhone, could it still work?

I'm thinking no, because how the signal is routed and grounded. But maybe it's possible, because isn't the PM-3 wired in TRRS and balanced-compatible? In case of no, an RSA connector on the cable and a short SE adapter might be best to reduce portable weight. AFAIK. I'd be more interested in trying the 2.5 if I had an A&K player.


----------



## gr8soundz

evshrug said:


> It's a good idea, but question... Is it possible to have a balanced 3.5mm? And if you plug that straight into an iPhone, could it still work?
> 
> I'm thinking no, because how the signal is routed and grounded. But maybe it's possible, because isn't the PM-3 wired in TRRS and balanced-compatible? In case of no, an RSA connector on the cable and a short SE adapter might be best to reduce portable weight. AFAIK. I'd be more interested in trying the 2.5 if I had an A&K player.


 
  
 My PM-3 TRRS cable doesn't work direct to my smartphone or other equipment. Have to use a balanced to SE adapter. (Or just switch back to the stock cable).
  
 Also have a 2.5mm balanced adapter for the A&K pinout although I don't have a device like that (yet).
  
 TRRS to XLR adapter is ready and waiting for the LC:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0108IEWNE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

evshrug said:


> It's a good idea, but question... Is it possible to have a balanced 3.5mm? And if you plug that straight into an iPhone, could it still work?
> 
> I'm thinking no, because how the signal is routed and grounded. But maybe it's possible, because isn't the PM-3 wired in TRRS and balanced-compatible? In case of no, an RSA connector on the cable and a short SE adapter might be best to reduce portable weight. AFAIK. I'd be more interested in trying the 2.5 if I had an A&K player.


 
  
 You might want to ask that question in the Sony ZX2 thread.  It uses that very headphone out.  I think it will work, but I'm far from 100% sure.
  
 For my modular cables, I went with mini 4 pin XLR


----------



## gr8soundz

buttuglyjeff said:


> You might want to ask that question in the Sony ZX2 thread.  It uses that very headphone out.  I think it will work, but I'm far from 100% sure.
> 
> For my modular cables, I went with mini 4 pin XLR


 
  
 The ZX2 isn't fully balanced. It only uses a second ground on the TRRS to improve sound quality. Benefit is that TRRS and TRS work seamlessly on the same jack (w/o software or hardware switching) and the TRRS (from what I've read) does have more soundstage.
  
 So there is a difference but it's not true balanced. Also not sure how that could translate to something like the LC as you'd need a TRRS to dual XLR cable which opens up another can of worms because dual-grounding. Probably safer to use a regular TRS cable and let the LC's phase splitter do the work.


----------



## runeight

Gents, with regard to TRRS jacks at the input please remember our conversation about the extra grounding needed to make this work, even if you adapt from TRRS to dual XLR.


----------



## bflat

runeight said:


> Gents, with regard to TRRS jacks at the input please remember our conversation about the extra grounding needed to make this work, even if you adapt from TRRS to dual XLR.


 

 Does this mean don't take a battery powered (DC) source and connect via balanced out to an AC only amp like LC? If I remember correctly AK offers a very expensive cable for this that pulls an extra ground from the SE output.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Dude, we need a CALCulator to CALCulate how much money we're going to spend to get our rigs perfectly synergized with the CALC...
  
CALC meaning Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon...
  
I'm sorry I'm punny I swear...


----------



## DigitalFreak

Hey guys, I just checked my tracking. My ether just landed in my city. I should have it in my hands tomorrow morning or afternoon. All that's left now is the LC and my rig is complete


----------



## aamefford

digitalfreak said:


> Hey guys, I just checked my tracking. My ether just landed in my city. I should have it in my hands tomorrow morning or afternoon. All that's left now is the LC and my rig is complete


And if you are anything like me, you will change it 3 times before the LC gets to you!


----------



## DigitalFreak

aamefford said:


> And if you are anything like me, you will change it 3 times before the LC gets to you!




God I hope not. I'm broke enough as it is


----------



## mandrake50

digitalfreak said:


> God I hope not. I'm broke enough as it is


 

 I already
 have..    actually 4 times  good luck... More than that by double if DACS are considered...


----------



## Superpong

bearfnf said:


> Only advantage I see is that the XLR is more common the the Kobiconn, the only amp I will (soon) have with the Kobiconn is the LC...




If I'm not mistaken, kobiconn 4 pins was originally design for video or surveillance devices. Thus metal conductor used is mediocre or generic. XLR however was designed for studio or audio professional use which withstand many times disconnection/connection. Another advantage is that XLR pins have more larger surface than pins of kobiconn, thus you can use larger wire (ie. 18awg) for high current demands. For kobiconn pins, 23awg is the biggest wire that it's comfortable to handle with. If your headphone amp is capable of high current,4 pins XLR with 20awg wire is highly recommended.


----------



## Hoztel

Been reading this thread for a few months now on my phone day to day keeping up on whats going on with the amp and its future users. finally made an account today just to say how excited i am to get my LC.
 Although i wanted to say thanks to all the great questions asked and also answered because i also had very similar questions.
 thanks to you all I'm set, and ready for the carbon to arrive and just plug it straight in!
 going to be putting it to the test with my LCD 2's and LCD 3's


----------



## jamato8

superpong said:


> If I'm not mistaken, kobiconn 4 pins was originally design for video or surveillance devices. Thus metal conductor used is mediocre or generic. XLR however was designed for studio or audio professional use which withstand many times disconnection/connection. Another advantage is that XLR pins have more larger surface than pins of kobiconn, thus you can use larger wire (ie. 18awg) for high current demands. For kobiconn pins, 23awg is the biggest wire that it's comfortable to handle with. If your headphone amp is capable of high current,4 pins XLR with 20awg wire is highly recommended.


 

 Having used the Kobiconn for years now, disconnecting and reconnecting is not and issue. Also I have compared it to the XLR for sound, and can detect no difference. The conducting metal is not ferrous metal and not aluminum and does a good job. You can go to 20 gauge easily with the Kobiconn. It is inexpensive, which is a blessing over the 20 to 100 dollar connectors that are often used that IMO, offer no better stability or lifespan.


----------



## doctorjazz

Frankly, balanced connectors are fine if you connect them and forget about them, as I do in my main system, but I can see them being a pain in a situation in which you frequently plug and unplug. (that may be true for both types of balanced connectors). Have to suffer for great sound, I guess.


----------



## aamefford

I've never had issues with the full size XLR.  I just picked up a solo -db and ALO Rx Mk3-B, and I don't see any real issues with the Kobiconn either, though I kind of wish it was straight instead of right angled.  As long as one excercises a bit of restraint when plugging and unplugging, I think the Kobiconn connector will be pretty reliable.  Given a choice though, unless I'm using IEM's, I like the size and firmness and heft of the XLR's.  They are less fiddly to me.


----------



## zachawry

Talk of a Cavalli DAC *almost* makes me glad I've been too broke after an audio spending spree (culminating in LC and ETHER) to even think about buying a real DAC for now...


----------



## Hoztel

zachawry said:


> Talk of a Cavalli DAC *almost* makes me glad I've been too broke after an audio spending spree (culminating in LC and ETHER) to even think about buying a real DAC for now...


 

 i feel you I'm pretty broke at the moment when the carbon arrives I'm gunna try the centrance dac mini i have and do a lil experiment but even just plugged in with a 3.5m straight to my computer will do it just as much justice on my lcd 3's I'm sure. but either way ultimately I'm looking for an upgrade but don't know if ill be buying one till at least the start of next year ( DAC) 
 as far as the LC goes i had to swoop one up at that price. but i didn't know there was talk a cavalli making a DAC, is there more info on this yet? or just talk?


----------



## zachawry

Dr. Cavalli has stated that he is thinking of putting one out. Warren has stated he has heard a prototype (I think). 
  
 As for me, I'm listening to my Ethers right now out of an AK120II to ALO-RX-MK3-B+. This is good enough, and even a year ago I would have been astounded at the sound quality, but the more you know, the more you want. 
  
 As for problematic potentiometers, my ALO often gets loud hiss in the right channel when I adjust the volume. Contacted ALO and they say that just happens. So, I'm more than happy to wait for good pots. I am experiencing the problems first-hand when pots go bad. ;(


----------



## Hoztel

well that would be interesting to see a DAC from cavalli.
 and yeah I'm really excited to have the amp on my desk making it easier for everyday use. the volume knob to my HS8 monitors just get all static when you adjust it to slowly ha(at least my entrance DAC mini for the headphones works great), its terrible i just don't have the money for another sound card or dac for my computer so thats why the LC is going to make my life much much easier.


----------



## x RELIC x

zachawry said:


> Dr. Cavalli has stated that he is thinking of putting one out. Warren has stated he has heard a prototype (I think).
> 
> As for me, I'm listening to my Ethers right now out of an AK120II to ALO-RX-MK3-B+. This is good enough, and even a year ago I would have been astounded at the sound quality, but the more you know, the more you want.
> 
> As for problematic potentiometers, my ALO often gets loud hiss in the right channel when I adjust the volume. Contacted ALO and they say that just happens. So, I'm more than happy to wait for good pots. I am experiencing the problems first-hand when pots go bad. ;(




warrenpchi pretty much just hinted at a possibility of a Cavalli DAC, don't think he's heard a prototype. Then again only the 'Treasel' can know for sure.

I found that when a volume pot starts to make noise when adjusting volume a couple full turns (when off) can clear any dust in the pot which alleviates the noise/hiss for a while. If it comes back repeat.


----------



## zachawry

x relic x said:


> @warrenpchi pretty much just hinted at a possibility of a Cavalli DAC, don't think he's heard a prototype. Then again only the 'Treasel' can know for sure.
> 
> I found that when a volume pot starts to make noise when adjusting volume a couple full turns (when off) can clear any dust in the pot which alleviates the noise/hiss for a while. If it comes back repeat.


 

 Well, he said "And NO, I will absolutely NOT say whether or not I am listening to a prototype of it, so don't ask." You can interpret that as you like. I'd link to the post but I'm too lazy to figure out how. 
  
 And for the pot: Your advice worked! Thank you very much. You just immeasurably improved my listening experience. Hate that static every time I change the volume. (You'd think ALO support would have made the same suggestion instead of just saying "deal with it.")


----------



## x RELIC x

zachawry said:


> Well, he said "And NO, I will absolutely NOT say whether or not I am listening to a prototype of it, so don't ask." You can interpret that as you like. I'd link to the post but I'm too lazy to figure out how.
> 
> And for the pot: Your advice worked! Thank you very much. You just immeasurably improved my listening experience. Hate that static every time I change the volume. (You'd think ALO support would have made the same suggestion instead of just saying "deal with it.")




Glad it worked for you. I hate it when it's gets noisy on volume adjustment.

As far as the DAC prototype goes, when Alex jumped in to the DAC thread asking for what we want I take that as a sign it's purely in the concept stage. But again, who really knows but a select few.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

hoztel said:


> i feel you I'm pretty broke at the moment when the carbon arrives I'm gunna try the centrance dac mini i have and do a lil experiment but even just plugged in with a 3.5m straight to my computer will do it just as much justice on my lcd 3's I'm sure. but either way ultimately I'm looking for an upgrade but don't know if ill be buying one till at least the start of next year ( DAC)
> as far as the LC goes i had to swoop one up at that price. but i didn't know there was talk a cavalli making a DAC, is there more info on this yet? or just talk?


 
  
 I saw that on Massdrop for $99, and you can color me curious...


----------



## zachawry

bflat said:


> Does this mean don't take a battery powered (DC) source and connect via balanced out to an AC only amp like LC? If I remember correctly AK offers a very expensive cable for this that pulls an extra ground from the SE output.


 

 He responded to an old question of mine, so I'll take the liberty of responding. I had a 2.5 TRRS balanced to dual-XLR interconnect made to go from my AK120II to the LC. 
  
 Dr. Cavalli said that it would work as long as I also ran a cable from the 3.5 out on the AK to the 3.5 SE input on the LC to provide a ground.


----------



## doctorjazz

Non techie question...is the TRRS connector different from the TRS (Pono?


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Non techie question...is the TRRS connector different from the TRS (Pono?


 
  
 I believe the Pono uses dual TRS connectors to get balanced, vs a single TRRS connector.


----------



## aqsw

Can you imagine the "rush" for the 500 matching dacs to the 500 LCs. Might buy 10 of them and put them up for ransom! Lol.


----------



## gr8soundz

aqsw said:


> Can you imagine the "rush" for the 500 matching dacs to the 500 LCs. Might buy 10 of them and put them up for ransom! Lol.


 
  
 Maybe Alex would give us LC owners the option to buy DACs with matching serials to our LCs.


----------



## doctorjazz

stillhart said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Non techie question...is the TRRS connector different from the TRS (Pono?
> ...




Thanks...so they're not interchangeable. Want to get balanced Pono cables for my acs Encore, with some adaptor for LC (or vice versa). They use a Linum cable, which had its own connector to the ciem, so most iem connectors don't work. Linum doesn't seem to know much about these various connectors.


----------



## bflat

I have been bitten by the pre-order bug again - Ether C. @Stillhart I think you are the only person on the planet that has a GMB to LC to Ether C. Is that right? Can you give a few listening impressions? Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

bflat said:


> I have been bitten by the pre-order bug again - Ether C. @Stillhart I think you are the only person on the planet that has a GMB to LC to Ether C. Is that right? Can you give a few listening impressions? Thanks!


 
  
 Sorry, I don't have that combo at the moment.  I heard the ETHER C at the Schiit Show on my DAC-19 and the Liquid Crimson.  Based on hearing it with the DAC-19/Crimson and the GMB/M2, I'm sure it'll sound fantastic on the GMB/LC.  It's a really great headphone, probably my favorite one available right now.
  
 I'm hoping to get a review unit of the ETHER C in the next two weeks or so.  First we have to wait for Dan to get back from London and I suspect he'll be vacationing there for a few days while he's there.  Then I can test on that setup.


----------



## bflat

stillhart said:


> Sorry, I don't have that combo at the moment.  I heard the ETHER C at the Schiit Show on my DAC-19 and the Liquid Crimson.  Based on hearing it with the DAC-19/Crimson and the GMB/M2, I'm sure it'll sound fantastic on the GMB/LC.  It's a really great headphone, probably my favorite one available right now.
> 
> I'm hoping to get a review unit of the ETHER C in the next two weeks or so.  First we have to wait for Dan to get back from London and I suspect he'll be vacationing there for a few days while he's there.  Then I can test on that setup.


 

 Thanks for the info!
  
 I plan to run LC off the balanced out of my GMB and keep my WA7 connected to the RCA out. Heck I may bring my SR-71B out of retirement on the second set of RCAs. It's funny, when I first got the Gungnir, I asked myself "why do I need more than one output?".
  
 Once I get the Ether C I will share my impressions between SS and tube for the Ether C.


----------



## JK-47

bflat said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I plan to run LC off the balanced out of my GMB and keep my WA7 connected to the RCA out. Heck I may bring my SR-71B out of retirement on the second set of RCAs. It's funny, when I first got the Gungnir, I asked myself "why do I need more than one output?".
> 
> Once I get the Ether C I will share my impressions between SS and tube for the Ether C.


 

 I'm using the balanced and RCA line out's simultaneously, and I'm loving every minute of it.


----------



## Stillhart

bflat said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I plan to run LC off the balanced out of my GMB and keep my WA7 connected to the RCA out. Heck I may bring my SR-71B out of retirement on the second set of RCAs. It's funny, when I first got the Gungnir, I asked myself "why do I need more than one output?".
> 
> Once I get the Ether C I will share my impressions between SS and tube for the Ether C.


 
  
  


jk-47 said:


> I'm using the balanced and RCA line out's simultaneously, and I'm loving every minute of it.


 
  
 When using the LC to test the balanced vs RCA on the GMB, it's very clear that the SE output sounds worse than the balanced.  Thanks to the phase splitter, the relative volume doesn't change at all and you can very clearly hear the changes to the sound.  The bass stays EXACTLY the same volume and the mids just suck right out.  This was confirmed by @MattTCG, tho he had to manually volume match.
  
 I'd really caution you about comparing anything when using the different outputs on the GMB.


----------



## bflat

stillhart said:


> When using the LC to test the balanced vs RCA on the GMB, it's very clear that the SE output sounds worse than the balanced.  Thanks to the phase splitter, the relative volume doesn't change at all and you can very clearly hear the changes to the sound.  The bass stays EXACTLY the same volume and the mids just suck right out.  This was confirmed by @MattTCG, tho he had to manually volume match.
> 
> I'd really caution you about comparing anything when using the different outputs on the GMB.


 

 So what you are telling me is that I need to get a WA-22 amp in order to do a fair comparison. That works for me!


----------



## JK-47

stillhart said:


> When using the LC to test the balanced vs RCA on the GMB, it's very clear that the SE output sounds worse than the balanced.  Thanks to the phase splitter, the relative volume doesn't change at all and you can very clearly hear the changes to the sound.  The bass stays EXACTLY the same volume and the mids just suck right out.  This was confirmed by @MattTCG, tho he had to manually volume match.
> 
> I'd really caution you about comparing anything when using the different outputs on the GMB.


 
 I never compared the performance between the two, I only stated that I like being able to use more than one output. Read the context of my comments before jumping on me.
  
 Andl, the funny thing is... The RCA's go to my Elekit, and the balanced go to my MJ2. The Elekit is only SE in and out, but sounds better than the MJ2 balanced in, SE out...MJ2 balanced out is on the same level, and no I don't intend to try the MJ2 SE in.


----------



## Stillhart

jk-47 said:


> I never compared the performance between the two, I only stated that I like being able to use more than one output. Read the context of my comments before jumping on me.
> 
> Andl, the funny thing is... The RCA's go to my Elekit, and the balanced go to my MJ2. The Elekit is only SE in and out, but sounds better than the MJ2 balanced in, SE out...MJ2 balanced out is on the same level, and no I don't intend to try the MJ2 SE in.



I sincerely apologize if you thought I was jumping on you. That was not my intention at all. I was simply pointing out that the two outputs sound different so you can't make any assumptions about the sound of equipment plugged into different ports. 

In a subjective hobby like this, it's important to be as objective as possible when we actually can.


----------



## JK-47

stillhart said:


> I sincerely apologize if you thought I was jumping on you. That was not my intention at all. I was simply pointing out that the two outputs sound different so you can't make any assumptions about the sound of equipment plugged into different ports.
> 
> In a subjective hobby like this, it's important to be as objective as possible when we actually can.




OK,but I was never comparing anything. I quoted another member that liked the fact he could run multiple amps off his GMB.


----------



## cskippy

This difference in sound quality is worrying to me.  I like the Gumby because of the multiple outputs it has to offer.  I will use one rca output to a preamp and speakers, the other to my speaker amp for HE-6 and finally balanced to Liquid Carbon when that arrives.  Ideally a master 1 preamp would solve everything but one thing at a time.


----------



## Stillhart

jk-47 said:


> OK,but I was never comparing anything. I quoted another member that liked the fact he could run multiple amps off his GMB.


 
  
 Great, then I clearly wasn't talking to you so there's even less need for you to be upset.


----------



## JK-47

stillhart said:


> Great, then I clearly wasn't talking to you so there's even less need for you to be upset.


 


jk-47 said:


> I'm using the balanced and RCA line out's simultaneously, and I'm loving every minute of it.


 
  
 QUOTE by Stillhart: When using the LC to test the balanced vs RCA on the GMB, it's very clear that the SE output sounds worse than the balanced.  Thanks to the phase splitter, the relative volume doesn't change at all and you can very clearly hear the changes to the sound.  The bass stays EXACTLY the same volume and the mids just suck right out.  This was confirmed by @MattTCG, tho he had to manually volume match.
  
 I'd really caution you about comparing anything when using the different outputs on the GMB.
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  
  
 When you quote someone, the response is directed at them.
  
 Anyways....


----------



## Evshrug

Sometimes I quote a post, but my part of the post is addressing everybody. For example I just quoted somebody who doesn't like LED's in headphones, and I quoted to reference the topic but I just said to everybody "I think LEDs add a little heat and complexity without benefit."

To you, jk, I'd just say Stillhart probably was quoting but not picking on you, and just cautioning the head-go community at large. IMO some headphones/music genres might benefit from a mids reduction, so it's a difference but good/bad is up to the opinion of the beholder.


----------



## runeight

Gents, I think I need to say a few things here just to be sure that all is clear. I think that Stillhart is trying to  make sure that things are clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Oh, and what JK-47 is trying to say too.
  
 The phase splitter on the Carbon is pretty good and quite faithful to what is coming into the SE inputs.  If a DAC has both Balanced and SE outs and IF these have the same SQ then I don't think you will be able to hear a difference between driving the Carbon SE or Bal. There probably is a slight difference because, after all, the signal is passing through more active elements when using the SE in with splitter, but may be below any audible threshold for most listeners with most headphones, if there at all.
  
 OTOH, if the source's Bal and SE have different SQ then you should expect to hear this. But don't conclude that, if the SE is of lower quality, the splitter is causing this. It probably isn't. At the same time, the splitter cannot make up for lack of SQ in the SE signal that is coming in. It will put out a Bal signal as faithful to the SE input as it can but it won't try to fix it.
  
 I can't speak for any other amps or even for the many really terrific choices there are for DACs, but I just want to be sure that it's clear what the Carbon is doing and what it isn't doing with respect to the Bal and SE inputs.
  
 I hope this is useful and not redundant to the conversation.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^ Basically use the DAC's best output.  If the new Gungnir is best out of the balanced output, then by all means use that....


----------



## x RELIC x

Yet more confirmation that I'll be happy to connect the DAC-19 SE to the Liquid Carbon. Thanks runeight, can't wait!


----------



## montanari

Was it listenable at can jam London?
Waiting for more impression with 3f pleazzz


----------



## pedalhead

montanari said:


> Was it listenable at can jam London?
> Waiting for more impression with 3f pleazzz




'fraid not, I didn't see one there and pretty sure I visited all the tables.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Soon... *SOOOOOOON*


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

......I know.  Alex should be getting the volume pots this week.  Or they at least should ship to him this week.


----------



## ying

just wondering does anyone know when the Liquid Carbon is going to ship. sort of want a estimate if possible.


----------



## Stillhart

The most recent estimate (a week or two ago) was that they'll start shipping in September sometime because there was a delay with one of the parts suppliers.  We haven't gotten any updates since, but I suspect that's simply because they're waiting for the parts to come in before giving us an updated timeline.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm in the middle of getting cables, want balanced for LC and also for Pono. Have to be sure about the balanced out on the LC, it's the Ray Samuels mini connector, correct? No full size connector?


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> I'm in the middle of getting cables, want balanced for LC and also for Pono. Have to be sure about the balanced out on the LC, it's the Ray Samuels mini connector, correct? No full size connector?


 
 It's the RSA as well as the 4-pin XLR. So you can either get RSA cables or get a 4-pin XLR to ____ adapter. I personally have a Norne 4-pin XLR to 2.5mm TRRS adapter that allows me to play my K10's balanced from any amp with a balanced XLR headphone jack. Maybe you could get an XLR 4-pin to dual 3.5mm TRS for your Pono?

 Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

mscott58 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm in the middle of getting cables, want balanced for LC and also for Pono. Have to be sure about the balanced out on the LC, it's the Ray Samuels mini connector, correct? No full size connector?
> ...




That's what I'm sorting out...I also have a Norne Zoetic cable for my HE-1000, ends in the 4-pin XLR, and I already have 2 adaptors Norne made terminated for Pono and single ended so I can use the HEK with the other gear I have. So, I already have the adaptors, now I want balanced cables for my acs Encores. They, of course, use their own cables, made by Linum, and they don't termnate in this way. So, I'm trying to figure out the best adaptor to use for the Linum balanced. Seems like the 4-pin works, since I already have cables for that.
Thanks


----------



## BucketInABucket

Still trying to decide whether to use the Neutrik 4-pin XLR or go with something else with my cables.


----------



## Luckbad

bucketinabucket said:


> Still trying to decide whether to use the Neutrik 4-pin XLR or go with something else with my cables.


 
  
 I asked this question a bit ago and the consensus was to go with Neutrik 4-pin XLR for full-size headphones and RSA for IEMs.
  
 The XLR is a bigger, more sturdy connector overall, and RSA is angled and can be awkward for a full-size headphone. It'll still work, but it's mostly size-related. You don't want a giant XLR connector on a small earphone, but the straight and sturdy XLR is good for full-size.
  
 XLR outputs are also much more common than RSA, so you gain flexibility with that connector.


----------



## jamato8

You can easily have the Kobiconn made straight when have a cable made. For me, and I have XLR, I much prefer the Kobiconn on my headphones as it is light, much less metal in the signal path and will hold up just as well as a large heavy XLR. I am using the Whiplash to Kobicon and from it I can have any plush I want, from 3.5, 1/4 inch or if needed, an XLR.


----------



## BucketInABucket

luckbad said:


> I asked this question a bit ago and the consensus was to go with Neutrik 4-pin XLR for full-size headphones and RSA for IEMs.
> 
> The XLR is a bigger, more sturdy connector overall, and RSA is angled and can be awkward for a full-size headphone. It'll still work, but it's mostly size-related. You don't want a giant XLR connector on a small earphone, but the straight and sturdy XLR is good for full-size.
> 
> XLR outputs are also much more common than RSA, so you gain flexibility with that connector.


 
 I mean what brand; there's no doubt that I'll keep using the 4-pin XLR.


----------



## Luckbad

@BucketInABucket
  
 I got these:
 http://www.markertek.com/product/nc4mxx-b/neutrik-nc4mxx-b-4-pin-xlr-m-cable-connector-black-shell-gold-contacts
  
 And this to make an adapter so I can still use the headphones with TRS:
 http://www.markertek.com/product/nc4fx-b/neutrik-nc4fx-b-xlr-female-4-pin-black-gold


----------



## doctorjazz

I just went with the 4-pin, spoke to Ted Allen (very nice-you can search him in Head-Fi ), could do either, is more secure. Once you're connected to the amp, shouldn't make too much difference if it's smaller or bigger (I needed it as an extension/adaptor from a Linum balanced cable for a acs Encore-boy, what a pain-originally terminated for A & K). Probably OK either way.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, I know that many of you are anxious to know where things stand. Please give me a few more days to gather more concrete info. At this point in the process I don't want to speculate for you all, but have the best data that I can get.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## BucketInABucket

luckbad said:


> @BucketInABucket
> 
> I got these:
> http://www.markertek.com/product/nc4mxx-b/neutrik-nc4mxx-b-4-pin-xlr-m-cable-connector-black-shell-gold-contacts
> ...


 
 Yea, I used those too. Was curious as to whether people use anything else though.


----------



## gr8soundz

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I know that many of you are anxious to know where things stand. Please give me a few more days to gather more concrete info. At this point in the process I don't want to speculate for you all, but have the best data that I can get.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Thanks for keeping us in the loop Doc.


----------



## ying

stillhart said:


> The most recent estimate (a week or two ago) was that they'll start shipping in September sometime because there was a delay with one of the parts suppliers.  We haven't gotten any updates since, but I suspect that's simply because they're waiting for the parts to come in before giving us an updated timeline.




Sounds good thanks for the update. appreciate it.


----------



## achristilaw

Goody-goody-gum-drops!!


----------



## buke9

runeight said:


> Hey gents, I know that many of you are anxious to know where things stand. Please give me a few more days to gather more concrete info. At this point in the process I don't want to speculate for you all, but have the best data that I can get.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 Thanks for the info just can't wait. Well I guess I have too


----------



## Joeybgood

AC cord  question. Can someone with knowledge in this area confirm whether this cord can or cannot be used with the LC? It mentions that it's  perfect for 'source components' but not for amps but I'm assuming they are not referring to HP amps but power amps.. anyone? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pangea-Audio-AC-14SE-MKII-Signature-Power-Cable-1-Meter/262026263500?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140602152332%26meid%3D1c8e7df216174f23b8c3da3a33ff32d9%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D261977464653


----------



## Stillhart

Yep, you can use that with the LC.


----------



## Joeybgood

stillhart said:


> Yep, you can use that with the LC.


 
 thanks much Dan!


----------



## mscott58

joeybgood said:


> AC cord  question. Can someone with knowledge in this area confirm whether this cord can or cannot be used with the LC? It mentions that it's  perfect for 'source components' but not for amps but I'm assuming they are not referring to HP amps but power amps.. anyone? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pangea-Audio-AC-14SE-MKII-Signature-Power-Cable-1-Meter/262026263500?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140602152332%26meid%3D1c8e7df216174f23b8c3da3a33ff32d9%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D261977464653


 
 As Dan said it should be more than fine. Also I wouldn't take the "not good for amps" thing far too seriously in the description of the PC. The eBay description says the cable is made up of 14 gauge wire, and 14 gauge is rated typically for around 15 amps and 1400 watts. If you move up to that brand's "amp" grade PC it has 7 gauge wire, which can handle 40-50 amps and ~7500-8500 watts. Given that the LC draws 8 watts, I think either should be just fine! I don't think you'll run into anything in Head-Fi that needs more than 1400 watts. For example my tube based monoblocks for my 2-channel setup pump out 60+ watts each to the speakers and only draw 300 watts from the wall. Cheers


----------



## nanashisan

I picked this one up from amazon for my LC.
 http://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-Signature-Power-Cable/dp/B00V75KB06


----------



## Luckbad

I bought this one:
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5292&seq=1&format=2


----------



## DC5Zilla

Yup same here, I use monoprice cables for my work as well   I always buy hundreds of CAT6 cable from them but never had a problem.


----------



## Audio Addict

luckbad said:


> I bought this one:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5292&seq=1&format=2


 
  
 Shipping cost more than the cable I would suspect unless you were already buying a bunch of stuff from them.  I have been looking at the monoprice cases as they seem pretty affordable.


----------



## Stillhart

audio addict said:


> Shipping cost more than the cable I would suspect unless you were already buying a bunch of stuff from them.  I have been looking at the monoprice cases as they seem pretty affordable.


 
  
 Yeah, I always end up asking my brother if he needs anything before I order from Monoprice for that very reason...


----------



## 3rddimension

aamefford said:


> I have the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime.  They are a really cool pairing.  First time I heard it at a meet, it was @jude  's demo LC.  I kinda pulled at his shirt sleeve and said something like "wow - have heard these from the LC?"  He allowed as how he had the Primes, so, yes.  Any way, I was pretty blown away.  Way different than the Ether for sure, but a killer combo.  I haven't heard any other closed cans from the LC.  It has been long enough all I can really say at this point is that I was quite impressed at the time.


 

 Well Dr. Cavalli needs to thank you for a the 1min ago purchase 
Your Order #1000001031


----------



## Barry S

3rddimension said:


> Well Dr. Cavalli needs to thank you for a the 1min ago purchase
> Your Order #1000001031




1031 (your order) - 396 (first confirmed LC order) +1 = 636 orders since the LC went on sale. I think the vast majority (but not all) of these orders are for LC's. My guess is that close to 600 units have been pre-sold and almost certainly--significantly more than 500 units.


----------



## 3rddimension

I just wanted to mention that it was *aamefford's *post that made me pull the trigger


----------



## aamefford

3rddimension said:


> Well Dr. Cavalli needs to thank you for a the 1min ago purchase
> Your Order #1000001031







3rddimension said:


> I just wanted to mention that it was *aamefford's* post that made me pull the trigger


wow- cool! I'm looking forward to mine. I really like it. Great form factor and connections set, looks great, sounds wonderful. What's not to like?


----------



## 3rddimension

aamefford said:


> What's not to like?


 
 Well i was skeptical about the 1.5W max output.


----------



## mandrake50

My He 560 will do 115 *dB*SPL , that's at 316.4 *mW.  Over 120dB  at one watt! *This leaves plenty of continuous power in headroom, likely a few DB more in instantaneous or peak power.
  
 Now those are ear damaging levels. Level that most will never use, if they value their hearing. I often think that this insistence that a headphone amp needs several watts available to do the job we all want, is a bit misleading, at best.
  
 I do not see the LC running out of juice, statically nor dynamically, in any scenario that I can see using it.


----------



## x RELIC x

3rddimension said:


> Well i was skeptical about the 1.5W max output.




The Liquid Carbon has much more than 1.5W Max output, it's 1.5W continuous at 50 Ohms.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1485#post_11607837




> I wanted to talk about power output too. I've been holding back on you guys on the power output of the amp. Only a little though.
> 
> I've spec'd the amp a 1.5W continuous into 50R. In fact, it will do about 2.8W continuous into 50R.
> 
> ...


----------



## Luckbad

I think the concerns are almost specifically targeted at the HifiMAN HE-6, which requires a stupidly powerful amp. 96.51 dB SPL @ 1 Vrms. 
  
 I'd be curious if anyone has tried the LC with them, and if it could actually drive them well enough.
  
 Not that I plan on ever getting those headphones.
  
 Edit (and see above post/link for explanation--apparently the LC is more powerful than we thought based on the website's specs alone):
  


runeight said:


> HE6 are tough buggers to drive. I think you'll get good results maybe good enough results for you to be happy, but you won't get what the Liquid Gold will do with them.


----------



## x RELIC x

luckbad said:


> I think the concerns are almost specifically targeted at the HifiMAN HE-6, which requires a stupidly powerful amp. 96.51 dB SPL @ 1 Vrms.
> 
> I'd be curious if anyone has tried the LC with them, and if it could actually drive them well enough.
> 
> ...




I was specifically referring to 3rddimension's comment about 1.5W max power. They have the Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime in their sig so I don't think the HE6 was a concern.

If an HE6 owner has purchased the LC I'd be very curious to know the results.

Edit: I love the way that the spec of the LC isn't just some boosted numbers to try and increase sales. 1.5W (conservative) in to 50R continuous is very respectable. Especially for such a small amp.


----------



## gr8soundz

I look at an amp's power output similar to that of a PC power supply. Most PCs don't need 1000W even when running multiple graphics cards but the extra power is there for headroom in case of any brief, high-drain situations. Kind of like room to breathe. Better to have more air if needed than to run out it.
  
 Continuous (RMS) amp power is fine until the system needs more. Think of it like a 300W subwoofer momentarily pushing 1400W when the bass really drops in action-packed movie.


----------



## aamefford

3rddimension said:


> Well i was skeptical about the 1.5W max output.







mandrake50 said:


> My He 560 will do 115 *dB*SPL , that's at 316.4 *mW.  Over 120dB  at one watt!* This leaves plenty of continuous power in headroom, likely a few DB more in instantaneous or peak power.
> 
> Now those are ear damaging levels. Level that most will never use, if they value their hearing. I often think that this insistence that a headphone amp needs several watts available to do the job we all want, is a bit misleading, at best.
> 
> I do not see the LC running out of juice, statically nor dynamically, in any scenario that I can see using it.



I don't see a situation this side of an HE-6 where I'll need more power than the LC provides. I have another amp in mind for shear output and preamp capability, but later.


----------



## Poimandres

The Mjolnir 2 is no slouch in the power department and sounds divine feeding my ETHERS.  Looking forward to hearing the Cavalli to see if all of the hype is substantiated.


----------



## x RELIC x

gr8soundz said:


> I look at an amp's power output similar to that of a PC power supply. Most PCs don't need 1000W even when running multiple graphics cards but the extra power is there for headroom in case of any brief, high-drain situations. Kind of like room to breathe. Better to have more air if needed than to run out it.
> 
> 
> Continuous (RMS) amp power is fine until the system needs more. Think of it like a 300W subwoofer momentarily pushing 1400W when the bass really drops in action-packed movie.




Yes, exactly as Alex described his amp. Not many headphones nowadays need 1.5W continuous at all, plus the LC has much more if needed. I know I won't need it! :wink_face:


----------



## runeight

OK everyone, here’s our latest update. There is good news and not so good news.
  
 The good news is that everything is moving along and things are coming together. Here’s a photo of the first production board in the standard CA black style. This amp came up perfectly and sounds exactly like a Liquid Carbon. New volume pots are in hand and so the boards are in good shape.
  

  
  
 As you all know, most of my production runs on the high end amps are fairly small. For the Carbon run it was necessary to engage an entirely different set of suppliers and fabricators who are more accustomed to these volume levels. These suppliers are doing a good job, but the completion timing of various pieces is taking longer than expected. There isn’t much we can do now except to wait until we get these pieces.
  
 So, now for the not-so-good news. Based on latest info and delivery times, I expect that we are going to see amps begin to ship in early November. I know that this is now more wait, but with latest info I want to be as accurate as I can be.
  
 During this extra wait, however, we’ll be posting pics and info on the work in progress. This way you’ll be able to see what’s happening. The board photo is the first of these.
  
 And, given more regular updates, I will start using the common practice of modifying the first post in the thread that I started here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available
  
 I know that many of you have been waiting eagerly for ship dates and I’m not too happy about this either. But, there are more vendors involved in this build, with one overseas. This has resulted unexpected late changes in the scheduling.
  
 Thanks for your patience. Amps will be made…..


----------



## rcoleman1

Thanks for the honest update @runeight. Cavalli Audio is truly a class act...well worth the wait.


----------



## KG Jag

That big of a change in the delivery date will cause me to change my delivery address.


----------



## x RELIC x

Thank you for the update runeight and for being perfectly honest.

I will admit that I'm a very sad panda to hear the news. My only hope is that the reported sound quality stays the same (which you pretty much have already confirmed above). Please keep up the updates as it helps ease the wait.


----------



## goldendarko

I've almost forgetten I even ordered it at this point anyway, ill just be happy when it shows up


----------



## nicolo

Working with new suppliers no matter how good they are will almost always cause delays and other problems. Thanks for keeping us in the loop with  no prevarication.


----------



## thomascrown

in the construction business there usually is a penalty clause for such delays...


----------



## xuan87

I like how Dr Cavalli used "not-so-good news" rather than "bad news" lol. Well the upside to all these delays is that I get to push back all my DAC and headphones purchases till Nov, but the not-so-up side is that I will be continuously poisoned during this period.


----------



## J4MES

kg jag said:


> That big of a change in the delivery date will cause me to change my delivery address.




Just shoot them an email with your new address. That's what I did.


----------



## KG Jag

j4mes said:


> kg jag said:
> 
> 
> > That big of a change in the delivery date will cause me to change my delivery address.
> ...


 

 Not really that easy in my case.
  
 Potentially even more complicated if this continues as a moving target.


----------



## gr8soundz

xuan87 said:


> I like how Dr Cavalli used "not-so-good news" rather than "bad news" lol. Well the upside to all these delays is that I get to push back all my DAC and headphones purchases till Nov, but the not-so-up side is that I will be continuously poisoned during this period.


 
  
 Don't have my DAC for the LC yet either. Perhaps the one I'm waiting for will become available by the time the LC ships.


----------



## zaintachik

Got me CIEM to keep me occupied but that too is gonna take a while


----------



## audiofrk

Thanks for the notice and the commitment to your customer base. While I'm not happy to wait I thank you for being upfront about it.


----------



## bflat

LOL, I gotta stop making bets. Going to lose another one - I bet LC would arrive before my Ether C so it's not looking good! But seriously, LC will be well worth the wait and is still a great bargain.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Man, that production board is SEXY


----------



## pippen99

bflat said:


> LOL, I gotta stop making bets. Going to lose another one - I bet LC would arrive before my Ether C so it's not looking good! But seriously, LC will be well worth the wait and is still a great bargain.


 
 Blows me out of the water for the 9/26 Nashville Meet unless Dr.Cavalli wants to send me a prototype so there is one for everyone to audition.(Hint-Hint)


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pippen99 said:


> Blows me out of the water for the 9/26 Nashville Meet unless Dr.Cavalli wants to send me a prototype so there is one for everyone to audition.(Hint-Hint)


 
  
 I believe Dan (Mr Speakers) has one of the prototypes.  Is he attending?


----------



## pippen99

buttuglyjeff said:


> I believe Dan (Mr Speakers) has one of the prototypes.  Is he attending?​


 
 According to a post somewhere I saw Dan will be in Europe(Germany?)


----------



## AxelCloris

pippen99 said:


> According to a post somewhere I saw Dan will be in Europe(Germany?)


 
  
 There's a show in Germany later this month where one of the distributors, digital-highend.de, will be displaying MrSpeakers' products. I'm not sure if an official company representative will be present.


----------



## reddog

Sweet the lc will be released in November,just in time for my birthday. I could not ask for better timing.


----------



## runeight

pippen99 said:


> Blows me out of the water for the 9/26 Nashville Meet unless Dr.Cavalli wants to send me a prototype so there is one for everyone to audition.(Hint-Hint)


 
  
 Working on it.


----------



## forestitalia

Mmmmm, I was expecting that. However the job looks good. Keep us update
	

, thanks.


----------



## morinu

Hi Everyone, This is my first post and I just joined to mention that I joined the adventure! This thread and the few reviews floating around made me pull the trigger a few days back. Coincidentally I got an Emotiva DC-1  DAC which is well regarded and it should work well with the LC. Thank you!


----------



## mscott58

morinu said:


> Hi Everyone, This is my first post and I just joined to mention that I joined the adventure! This thread and the few reviews floating around made me pull the trigger a few days back. Coincidentally I got an Emotiva DC-1  DAC which is well regarded and it should work well with the LC. Thank you!




Welcome!


----------



## sahmen

Are there any reviews of the LC and HD800 that one might consult?


----------



## aarontyson

sahmen said:


> Are there any reviews of the LC and HD800 that one might consult?


 
 I haven't tried the combo but a few others have. There are some who have reviewed it in past post.


----------



## badf00d

LC order placed last night. I'm going to try pairing it with my Arcam irDAC and HD700. Come on, November!


----------



## zaintachik

badf00d said:


> LC order placed last night. I'm going to try pairing it with my Arcam irDAC and HD700. Come on, November!




I'm using the hd 700 too. Dac audio quest dragonfly then upgrade


----------



## jamato8

I like to see how it plays with the Pioneer Master 1.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I still think I'm putting racing stripes on mine. 

Keep up the good work dude!


----------



## jerick70

I wanted to pipe in and tell everyone that my wallet is lighter because of this thread.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I placed an order a few weeks ago for an LC.  I'm really looking forward to this amp.


----------



## reddog

jerick70 said:


> I wanted to pipe in and tell everyone that my wallet is lighter because of this thread.     I placed an order a few weeks ago for an LC.  I'm really looking forward to this amp.



Once you receive your amp, you can pump up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your rudely depleted wallet.


----------



## jerick70

reddog said:


> Once you receive your amp, you can pump up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your rudely depleted wallet.


 
  
 You're absolutely right.  This is the advantage of being a audiophile.  Thank you sir for reminding me.


----------



## Hoztel

reddog said:


> Once you receive your amp, you can pump up the volume and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your rudely depleted wallet.


 

 Thats what ill be doing hahahaha! at this point its like i forgot I even paid for mine so I'm slowly recovering maybe for a new DAC for the LC. Just need to figure that out as well but i wanna see how the carbon will stand on its own first before i make a decision =]


----------



## jerick70

hoztel said:


> Thats what ill be doing hahahaha! at this point its like i forgot I even paid for mine so I'm slowly recovering maybe for a new DAC for the LC. Just need to figure that out as well but i wanna see how the carbon will stand on its own first before i make a decision =]




I just replaced my Oppo HA-1 with the new Yulong DA8 II. HUGE upgrade by the way. Yulong really does DACs the right way. We'll see how it plays with the LC.


----------



## runeight

Hello folks. A new update here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available


----------



## Hoztel

runeight said:


> Hello folks. A new update here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available


 

 looking really nice!! makes me excited 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can we all just skip over October and go to November haha


----------



## Stillhart

hoztel said:


> looking really nice!! makes me excited
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No way, RMAF is in October!!


----------



## sensui123

Nice to see all the familiar faces!  I skipped out on the Lau due to the GSX and still love the Liquid Glass to hell.  This actually was off my radar since I wasn't looking at smaller amps until I got interested in the Chord Hugo to replace my O2/Odac work rig.  But after seeing the specs and reviews/impressions.....I placed an order right away and will be pairing this with a Yggy from Schiitt perhaps since I've been curious about that DAC (or possibly move my Metrum Hex to work since I'm replacing with the Pavane).  Thanks Alex and the gang for a fantastic looking amp in such an affordable package and I can't wait to listen to this setup.  From everything I see, I have no doubt it'll have no problems with my HD650 and LCD-Xc that I listen to at work.


----------



## ddr007

I have been a silent head-fi consumer(my wallet says so). Placed order few months back. I don't mind waiting for a quality product. Thanks for being very transparent.


----------



## Hoztel

stillhart said:


> No way, RMAF is in October!!


 

 ah don't be silly you can't just skip a month thats impossible........what is possible is miracles like the amp shipping a month early, even like a week i'd still take haha but nah don't take me that serious when i say can we skip a month lol trust me theres lots i need to do in October =p but on a serious note i really don't mind the wait i know when it comes i'll just be one happy guy =D


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> No way, RMAF is in October!!


 
 Speaking of which, I'm in dire need of a fellow minion to carous with at the local hotel bar in the evening hours once we've crashed landed from our trip in audio nirvana for the day. You game Danny boy? The first MGD is on me. I promise I won't dance on the bar stools in my underpants until after the 5th beer.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> Speaking of which, I'm in dire need of a fellow minion to carous with at the local hotel bar in the evening hours once we've crashed landed from our trip in audio nirvana for the day. You game Danny boy? The first MGD is on me. I promise I won't dance on the bar stools in my underpants until after the 5th beer.


 
  
 Oh you know it!  But only on one condition:  you don't make me drink MGD.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Much fun will be had, Arly m'boy!  We'll grab Warren and Brian and Michael and Alex himself!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
And you know I'm very likely bringing my LC and DAC-19...Shhh!


----------



## bearFNF

I'm in for a few drinks, too.


digitalfreak said:


> Speaking of which, I'm in dire need of a fellow minion to carous with at the local hotel bar in the evening hours once we've crashed landed from our trip in audio nirvana for the day. You game Danny boy? The first MGD is on me. I promise I won't dance on the bar stools in my underpants until after the 5th beer.


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> Oh you know it!  But only on one condition:  you don't make me drink MGD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Stillhart

bearfnf said:


> I'm in for a few drinks, too.


 
  




  
 I'm an equal opportunity drinker!  Come one, come all!


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> Oh you know it!  But only on one condition:  you don't make me drink MGD.
> 
> Much fun will be had, Arly m'boy!  We'll grab Warren and Brian and Michael and Alex himself!
> 
> And you know I'm very likely bringing my LC and DAC-19...Shhh!




Looking forward to it! And I second the point about MGD. My favorite three letter beer is IPA! Cheers


----------



## DigitalFreak

As long as we're not drinking Rolling Rock or Michelob its all good


----------



## AxelCloris

digitalfreak said:


> As long as we're not drinking Rolling Rock or Michelob its all good


 
  
 I'll pass on the beer and head for the Scotch.


----------



## goldendarko

axelcloris said:


> I'll pass on the beer and head for the Scotch.


NOW you're talking


----------



## joeexp

Sorry for barching in:
 But can you guys please PM each other with regards to your drinking habits … 
  
 This is still a Cavalli Audio thread and isn't sponsored in any way by SABMiller or DIAGEO….
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## audiofrk

hey now not so quick @joexp
  
 If we do have a Alcoholic sponsor they can subsidize the carbon so that its cheaper for all of us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Get to work stillheart.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'll raise a glass to you all from my kitchen!
(have fun!)


----------



## Stillhart

audiofrk said:


> hey now not so quick @joexp
> 
> If we do have a Alcoholic sponsor they can subsidize the carbon so that its cheaper for all of us.
> 
> ...


 
  
 "Like our carbonated liquid?  Then you'll love the Liquid Carbon!  Buy a 6-pack today for a chance to win one!"
  
@warrenpchi, this is right up your alley.  Let's make it happen!


----------



## joeexp

Liquid Brew


----------



## mscott58

joeexp said:


> Liquid Brew


 
 Nice! How many years is that aged?


----------



## joeexp

mscott58 said:


> Nice! How many years is that aged?


 
  
 6 months thus far!


----------



## mscott58

joeexp said:


> 6 months thus far!


 
 Precisely.


----------



## DigitalFreak

You know, the Carbon with a wood top actually looks pretty good.


----------



## immtbiker

That's the "Devil's Brew". The electrons permeate through the wooden top, and enter the headphones from the outside, meeting the electrons from the inside,
 causing a perfect blend of musical bliss!


----------



## gr8soundz

digitalfreak said:


> You know, the Carbon with a wood top actually looks pretty good.


 
  
 Until it bursts into flames.......


----------



## Stillhart

gr8soundz said:


> Until it bursts into flames.......


 
  
 The LC doesn't actually get all that hot.


----------



## jerick70

gr8soundz said:


> Until it bursts into flames.......


 

 That would be a very sad day.


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems to be the hottest component on all of Head Fi, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Seems to be the hottest component on all of Head Fi, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!


 
  
 No, that's this guy:  http://www.synergisticresearch.com/hot-headphone-optimized-transducer/


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> You know, the Carbon with a wood top actually looks pretty good.


 
  
 It would be a dead match with the Bushmills Grado...


----------



## kenman345

digitalfreak said:


> You know, the Carbon with a wood top actually looks pretty good.


 
 I agree, looks really slick


----------



## NinjaHamster

Aftermarket accessory market, anyone?

Someone should call Smeggy ...


----------



## Joeybgood

stillhart said:


> No, that's this guy:  http://www.synergisticresearch.com/hot-headphone-optimized-transducer/


 
 Is the "HOT" adaptor just a gimmick or is there real merit to it?


----------



## Stillhart

joeybgood said:


> Is the "HOT" adaptor just a gimmick or is there real merit to it?


 
  
 You should get one and let us know.
  
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
(Or Google it a bit and enjoy the fun!)


----------



## Joeybgood

stillhart said:


> You should get one and let us know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 nahhh... you first!!!  Don't wanna steal your thunder Dan!!!


----------



## smial1966

There is/was a thread detailing the highly dubious sonic attributes of this device on Head-Fi. I had one and it was awful, muddying the sound and contributing nothing positive to my listening experience. In the aforementioned thread a HOT was dissected and nothing more than a wire, sand packing and a resistor were found, so items costing a few cents. A true quack product, best avoided at all costs. 




joeybgood said:


> Is the "HOT" adaptor just a gimmick or is there real merit to it?


----------



## kenman345

smial1966 said:


> There is/was a thread detailing the highly dubious sonic attributes of this device on Head-Fi. I had one and it was awful, muddying the sound and contributing nothing positive to my listening experience. In the aforementioned thread a HOT was dissected and nothing more than a wire, sand packing and a resistor were found, so items costing a few cents. A true quack product, best avoided at all costs.


 
 I dont know man, looks kinda HOT to me....
  
  
 Back to the main point of the thread, wood top panel Liquid Carbons......


----------



## Joeybgood

Sorry for the totally OTness of this guys(gals) but didn't really know where else to post this and knew Someone here would likely have an answer.. Another HeadFi member and I are trying to conclude a sale on here but inexplicably, his PP account will not let him send a payment. he's gone around and around with them(and his financial institution) and just a bunch of finger point between the two with no resolution. Does anyone know of another electronic means for us to get this done? Don't want to have to go 'old school' with a money order etc if we don't have to. Much thanks and my apologies for the OT!


----------



## pippen99

Western Union or MoneyGram.  Expensive!
 ​


----------



## Joeybgood

pippen99 said:


> Western Union or MoneyGram.  Expensive!
> ​


 
 yeah.... that's what I was thinking too. damn.


----------



## kenman345

joeybgood said:


> yeah.... that's what I was thinking too. damn.


 
 Cant he go to a 7Eleven and get a paypal load card with the amount and then give you the code? Then you would be able to add the cash directly  to your account. It would use your SS# when loading the money if you did it this way but it'll work within an hour of getting the card normally (sometimes up to 24 hours)


----------



## Joeybgood

kenman345 said:


> Cant he go to a 7Eleven and get a paypal load card with the amount and then give you the code? Then you would be able to add the cash directly  to your account. It would use your SS# when loading the money if you did it this way but it'll work within an hour of getting the card normally (sometimes up to 24 hours)


 
 Very cool. I'll see if we can make that work. Thanks man!


----------



## badf00d

Square (the guys that make the credit card swiper and are backed by JP Morgan Chase) have a money transfer app called cash.me that has no fee for individuals. Hope this helps.
  
 As for the real thread at hand, I have a question regarding unbalanced input. I have an unbalanced DAC that I am planning to use with the LC. Does an unbalanced source make a huge difference, or is the magic inside the LC going to be most of the benefit and the source not so much?


----------



## kenman345

badf00d said:


> Square (the guys that make the credit card swiper and are backed by JP Morgan Chase) have a money transfer app called cash.me that has no fee for individuals. Hope this helps.
> 
> As for the real thread at hand, I have a question regarding unbalanced input. I have an unbalanced DAC that I am planning to use with the LC. Does an unbalanced source make a huge difference, or is the magic inside the LC going to be most of the benefit and the source not so much?


 
 just remembered....Venmo.....


----------



## Stillhart

Google wallet lets you send money over gchat.  Facebook even lets you send money over FB chat now.  I assume Apple has something similar as well.  There are a million solutions to this one.  :-D


----------



## LajostheHun

What's the latest on shipping these?


----------



## kenman345

lajosthehun said:


> What's the latest on shipping these?


 
 Check the first post, I believe the latest is Early November


----------



## Beolab

Hi Alex! @runeight

I have a friend who might be interesting in the Carbon for just mobility use, but he wonted me to ask if its possible to modify the x3 gain mode to 25db in total, so its more suitable for heavy load headphones like HE-6 , Abyss and does kind of headphones? 

Have a nice day!


----------



## LajostheHun

kenman345 said:


> Check the first post, I believe the latest is Early November


 
 Of this thread? I did check it which is why I posted the question, as there is nothing there on shipping, I also checked Cavalli's website, nothing there either.


----------



## x RELIC x

The sponsor forums thread is where the updates are:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available#post_11504593

The same link is on the Cavalli Audio website. :wink_face:





runeight said:


> Ok folks, as promised at CanJam SoCal 2015, we are very happy to announce that our new fully-discrete, fully-balanced, transportable headphone amp - the *Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon* - will soon be available for purchase!
> 
> In keeping with our promise of wanting to offer this no-compromise amplifier at a substantially-discounted price, we are releasing the first (_and possibly only_) batch of Liquid Carbon amplifiers for $599 USD.
> 
> ...


----------



## zaintachik

The aluminium panel looks awesome.


----------



## Stillhart

Any feedback from Nashville?


----------



## sahmen

stillhart said:


> Any feedback from Nashville?


 
 Have you already seen this thread?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782234/music-city-meet-fall-2015-pictures-impressions-thread


----------



## pippen99

stillhart said:


> Any feedback from Nashville?


 
 I had a busy day talking about the LC.  Most of the people stopped by at one time or another.  The rest had already heard it at the spring meet.  Several people spent extended listening time with it.  Most were using my LCD-X or bringing over an ETHER model(both).  Several gave the HEK some time on the LC.  Dan Clark did not bring his to the meet so mine was the only one there.  Quite a few were impressed by how I came to have it there complementing Dr Cavalli on his responsiveness and generosity.  All in all a very good day!


----------



## jamato8

Any impressions on the LC from the meet?


----------



## buke9

I had listen to it at the fall meet and ordered after that. I listen to it again with the Ether C and bought them. It was the same source as the last meet I believe an Auralic DAC. It look like the same one but you would have to ask Pippen99 if it was the same. I will be happy with it I am sure. I'm new to all of this so I can't give a detailed review of what you are hearing I just know that it sounds good to me. The EtherC sounded so much better than my Alpha Dogs in all ways so I pulled the trigger on those. Did the Yiggy and Liquid Glass sound better you betcha. But my wife has guns and knows how to use them and tells me you have to sleep sometime : 0.


----------



## pippen99

buke9 said:


> I had listen to it at the fall meet and ordered after that. I listen to it again with the Ether C and bought them. It was the same source as the last meet I believe an Auralic DAC. It look like the same one but you would have to ask Pippen99 if it was the same. I will be happy with it I am sure. I'm new to all of this so I can't give a detailed review of what you are hearing I just know that it sounds good to me. The EtherC sounded so much better than my Alpha Dogs in all ways so I pulled the trigger on those. Did the Yiggy and Liquid Glass sound better you betcha. But my wife has guns and knows how to use them and tells me you have to sleep sometime : 0.


 
 It was the same model an Auralic Vega but not the same unit.  As far as I know Dan still has is Vega.  After hearing that combo at the spring meet I went to the top with the Vega rather than take intermediate steps up for a TOTL DAC.  I knew that combo was very pleasing to my ears so I went for it.  I resisted the urge to order an ETHER (open model) and probably will regret that decision in the future.


----------



## DecentLevi

Looks like the LC was a star at the Nashville meet. Any chance you remember which DAC it was paired with?
  
 Here to hoping by any random miracle we may get our LCs sooner than November


----------



## doctorjazz

I wouldn't be shocked it it is LATER than November, who knows?


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> I wouldn't be shocked it it is LATER than November, who knows?


 
  
 Hope for the best, expect the worst.  Hasn't failed me yet!


----------



## morinu

I hope it is in November because I will be going out of the country in early December for a couple of months and I would go crazy if I took delivery of it after I am gone. I am hopping I can take it with me on the trip.

 I have a question. In the update it was mentioned that the face-plate had two colors (Aluminum and Back) but when I order it I was not asked to choose a color. Did I miss something?


----------



## x RELIC x

morinu said:


> I hope it is in November because I will be going out of the country in early December for a couple of months and I would go crazy if I took delivery of it after I am gone. I am hopping I can take it with me on the trip.
> 
> 
> I have a question. In the update it was mentioned that the face-plate had two colors (Aluminum and Back) but when I order it I was not asked to choose a color. Did I miss something?




The '_*back*_' was in reference to the back plate vs the front plate being shown. They are both aluminum and will be painted or anodized (can't remember) *black*.


----------



## morinu

x relic x said:


> The '_*back*_' was in reference to the back plate vs the front plate being shown. They are both aluminum and will be painted or anodized (can't remember) *black*.


 
  
 Sorry! I am an idiot! Thank you for the clarification. I guess after wrongly reading _*black *_I couldn't read _*back.*_


----------



## x RELIC x

morinu said:


> Sorry! I am an idiot! Thank you for the clarification. I guess after wrongly reading _*black*_ I couldn't read _*back.*_




Haha, no worries!


----------



## Stillhart

Hey folks,
  
 Just wanted to post real quick that I'm listening to the HD800 (with a partial Anax mod) with the LC and DAC-19 and, much to my surprise, it's not painful or irritating in the least.  I'm pretty sensitive to the HD800's treble when it's not paired well and I haven't heard may pairings that don't make me want to rip it off within a few seconds.  But this is a very listenable setup.  
  
 Anyone worrying about the pairing need not.  This is good stuff.


----------



## morinu

stillhart said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Just wanted to post real quick that I'm listening to the HD800 (with a partial Anax mod) with the LC and DAC-19 and, much to my surprise, it's not painful or irritating in the least.  I'm pretty sensitive to the HD800's treble when it's not paired well and I haven't heard may pairings that don't make me want to rip it off within a few seconds.  But this is a very listenable setup.
> 
> Anyone worrying about the pairing need not.  This is good stuff.


 
  
 I just got some Alpha Dogs from another Head-Fier since I am looking for a good pair of closed back headphones. My first planar experience and I find the definition to be great but after a while the highs are too much for my ears. Do you think the LC will tame the highs of these too? Do you think that the coloring of the LC is what makes the difference with the HD800?


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Just wanted to post real quick that I'm listening to the HD800 (with a partial Anax mod) with the LC and DAC-19 and, much to my surprise, it's not painful or irritating in the least.  I'm pretty sensitive to the HD800's treble when it's not paired well and I haven't heard may pairings that don't make me want to rip it off within a few seconds.  But this is a very listenable setup.
> 
> Anyone worrying about the pairing need not.  This is good stuff.



Thanks for your impressions on the LC, it helps me cope, with the anticipation I feel, sometimes.


----------



## Stillhart

morinu said:


> I just got some Alpha Dogs from another Head-Fier since I am looking for a good pair of closed back headphones. My first planar experience and I find the definition to be great but after a while the highs are too much for my ears. Do you think the LC will tame the highs of these too? Do you think that the coloring of the LC is what makes the difference with the HD800?


 
  
 If the lack of coloration counts as "the coloring of the LC", then yeah I'd say it contributes to it.  If I had to guess, I'd say the HD800 is tuned to a knife edge and any coloration towards the treble at all will push it into the annoying region for me.  The LC doesn't feel particularly bright or warm to me (I've heard a few more nice amps since I wrote my preview of the LC) so I think that helps.  The DAC-19 is also somewhat lush and smooth so I'm sure that doesn't hurt either.  It's just a really nicely synergized system.
  
 EDIT - Just wanted to add that the more I listen to it, the more I'm liking this setup with the HD800.  On some songs, it's really close to getting annoyingly bright, but it never quite gets there.


----------



## logscool

morinu said:


> I just got some Alpha Dogs from another Head-Fier since I am looking for a good pair of closed back headphones. My first planar experience and I find the definition to be great but after a while the highs are too much for my ears. Do you think the LC will tame the highs of these too? Do you think that the coloring of the LC is what makes the difference with the HD800?




I would try playing around with the tuning dots and the felt pads that go on to of the drivers first. I think you will find they can make quite a big difference, much more of a difference than any amp will. What amp are you using them with now?


----------



## potkettleblack

Has anybody got one of these yet?


----------



## morinu

Thank you for the replies Stillhart and logscool. I did try the felt pads and it helped a lot but still gets anoying sometimes (I may have to get the tunning dot since I got only the felt pads). Right now I am using a Centrance DACport Slim and I also have used the Emotiva DC-1 (which I hope it is a good match with the LC). I will wait until I get the LC and tune them further then. This month will be a long one!


----------



## Youth

I need your help guys since I want to order now to be sure I get a pair. I live in Denmark and it provides me with 3 different shipping options:
  
 FEDEX INTERNATIONAL ECONOMY
 FEDEX INTERNATIONAL PRIORITY
 USPS International
  
 which should I choose?


----------



## maxedfx

FedEx International!
Priority or economy depends on how much you want to spend on shipping and how fast you want to get it!!




youth said:


> I need your help guys since I want to order now to be sure I get a pair. I live in Denmark and it provides me with 3 different shipping options:
> 
> FEDEX INTERNATIONAL ECONOMY
> FEDEX INTERNATIONAL PRIORITY
> ...


----------



## DecentLevi

I think I know just the thing that can help us 'cope' with the agony of the long wait for the LC amp - 'Lcarbonation' - a _medication _designed to ease the wait for the _Liquid Carbon_. Now all we'll need is a few volunteers from the Sound Science forums for development and an LC forum member to volunteer for the patenting and marketing phase - then November-ish will _seem _like it was yesterday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In other news, perhaps the most plausible explanation why the LC amp is so other-worldy good and why it's not available yet is because it *is *from another dimension


----------



## Youth

maxedfx said:


> FedEx International!
> Priority or economy depends on how much you want to spend on shipping and how fast you want to get it!!


 
  
 Is USPS International bad?
  
 There's only like $7 difference between FEDEX INTERNATIONAL ECONOMY and FEDEX INTERNATIONAL PRIORITY.


----------



## maxedfx

AFAIK, FedEx delivers directly, USPS may have tie up with local postal service and then the end delivery will be done by them..

I always choose FedEx over usps whenever I'm presented with the choice. I live in the UAE BTW.


----------



## Youth

maxedfx said:


> AFAIK, FedEx delivers directly, USPS may have tie up with local postal service and then the end delivery will be done by them..
> 
> I always choose FedEx over usps whenever I'm presented with the choice. I live in the UAE BTW.


 
  
 Okay thanks. I'll use them then.


----------



## Youth

Just placed an order  Anybody knows when they will ship?


----------



## goldendarko

youth said:


> Just placed an order  Anybody knows when they will ship?


Just cancelled an order, ordered mine back in April so mayb you'll get mine


----------



## Youth

goldendarko said:


> Just cancelled an order, ordered mine back in April so mayb you'll get mine




How come you cancelled the order?


----------



## goldendarko

youth said:


> How come you cancelled the order?


Didn't actually need the amp. Just ordered the Studio Six since there was an RMAF sale on it and I've already got an oppo ha-1, really can't justify 3 amps


----------



## DecentLevi

youth said:


> Just placed an order  Anybody knows when they will ship?


 
  


decentlevi said:


> ...then* November-ish* will _seem _like it was yesterday!


 


x relic x said:


> The sponsor forums thread is where the updates are:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available#post_11504593
> 
> The same link is on the Cavalli Audio website.


----------



## Youth

goldendarko said:


> Didn't actually need the amp. Just ordered the Studio Six since there was an RMAF sale on it and I've already got an oppo ha-1, really can't justify 3 amps




Yeah 3 amps seems overkill indeed. Hopefully this means I can get mine sooner!


----------



## goldendarko

youth said:


> Yeah 3 amps seems overkill indeed. Hopefully this means I can get mine sooner!


Yup good luck!


----------



## buke9

youth said:


> Just placed an order  Anybody knows when they will ship?


 
 I think the term I heard this weekend at the Nashville meet just might be right. It was called the Unicorn Amp. I am really considering canceling my order also. We just got pics of the front plate of an amp that was to be shipping end of Aug. that doesn't look good to be done by Nov. I would be surprised if it is delivered this year. I will hold out a little longer if we get a better update but I'm not holding my breathe.


----------



## x RELIC x

goldendarko said:


> Didn't actually need the amp. Just ordered the Studio Six since there was an RMAF sale on it and I've already got an oppo ha-1, really can't justify 3 amps




And that is a seriously good amp. Been on my radar for a long while but couldn't justify the price. Congratulations.


----------



## aamefford

goldendarko said:


> Didn't actually need the amp. Just ordered the Studio Six since there was an RMAF sale on it and I've already got an oppo ha-1, really can't justify 3 amps


 
 Oh sure you can!


----------



## goldendarko

aamefford said:


> Oh sure you can!


Well if I traveled for work I could justify the LC as a portable amp for the road. Unfortunately I don't travel


----------



## aamefford

goldendarko said:


> Well if I traveled for work I could justify the LC as a portable amp for the road. Unfortunately I don't travel



I travel from upstairs to down stairs …


----------



## money4me247

aamefford said:


> I travel from upstairs to down stairs …


 
 hahah with two amps, you can have one for upstairs & one for downstairs =P


----------



## bflat

goldendarko said:


> Didn't actually need the amp. Just ordered the Studio Six since there was an RMAF sale on it and I've already got an oppo ha-1, really can't justify 3 amps


 

 Get a Schiit Gungnir MB for some R2R goodness and you get 2 SE and 1 BO so it can easily accommodate 3 amps simultaneously!


----------



## aamefford

money4me247 said:


> hahah with two amps, you can have one for upstairs & one for downstairs =P



But, ahhh… alright; I got nothin'


----------



## mscott58

buke9 said:


> I think the term I heard this weekend at the Nashville meet just might be right. It was called the Unicorn Amp. I am really considering canceling my order also. We just got pics of the front plate of an amp that was to be shipping end of Aug. that doesn't look good to be done by Nov. I would be surprised if it is delivered this year. I will hold out a little longer if we get a better update but I'm not holding my breathe.


 
 Talked to Alex a good bit about the delays on the LC at RMAF today and he's seriously doing everything he can to make the amps come as quickly as possible. Unfortunately he's a bit at the whim of some of his suppliers and unanticipated delays from them end up throwing off the whole sequence. I believe these delays are honestly keeping him up at night and he does not want to let anyone down. As a small manufacturer who is making his first foray into larger-production (okay, 500 isn't many, but it's sure a lot more than the number of LAu's and such that he is used to making) he has very little power over his suppliers, who if he pisses off by pushing too hard might just dump his project. Alex is not Apple or Ford or any manufacturer of size that has any real negotiating power of his suppliers, so he has to tread lightly. 
  
 Anyway, on the subject of SQ I did get to spend a lot of time at the Cavalli both today (Alex said to me today both "you again?" and "should we order pizza?" - in a joking and friendly way of course) and continue to really love his gear. I got to listen to the Liquid Gold, Crimson, Carbon and Silicon (although that last name is yet to be decided - there will be a contest soon) and they all are seriously good. The new portable is rock-solid and the Carbon is even better. Of course going up to the Gold is difficult because then you become spoiled. Also Alex is super-cool in stocking his table with a ton of high-end cans. From memory he had and Audeze LCD-3 and LCD-X, Mr. Speakers Ether and Ether-C, HiFi Man HE-1000 and HE-560, HD-800, and Abyss AB-1266 - quite the spread, and I had time to listen to them all - good times indeed.
  
 Keep up the good work Alex!


----------



## mandrake50

I spent something like 2 hours at the Cavalli table yesterday. Stillheart was there when I first stopped by and we got to chat a bit. Unfortunately I never got to listen to his 19 with the Carbon. There was a setup with the Hugo driving both the silicon and Carbon where I could switch back and forth. Of course is was impossible to really volume match and there is the signal to noise issue, but the little Silicon did very well next to the Carbon. I was impressed . I listened to the Carbon with the Ether, Ether C, HEK and Stillheart's HE 560. First, I am definitely not going to consider cancelling my order. This little amp plain sounded very, very nice. If anyone is thinking that they want something with the traditional tube sound or something "warm" they will be disappointed. The little amp was simply neutral and grain free. Regardless of what I used, including the HEK it handled them extremely well. I played the HEK much louder than I normally listen and there was no signs at all of the Carbon running out of clean power. With the 560, which I own and have 500 hors plus listening to, It was as good as I have heard them. Deep extended bass, clean grain free midrange and airy well defined treble without sounding etched. I was very impressed and quite happy to have one on order.
  
 When Alex came back from lunch, he immediately asked me if I had everything I needed and introduced himself. I mentioned that I had a carbon on order and he quickly said, "I am real sorry for the delays". It really does seem to me that he is bothered by the situation and is doing all that he can to control the situation. I definitely am content to wait for delivery of my unit knowing that it will happen as soon as it is possible.
  
 Alex talked me into listening to the Liquid Gold with the Abyss... I really should not have done that. It was likely the best sound I have experienced in a headphone setup. Already I am calculating how long it will take me to get the funds to duplicate it..


----------



## Youth

mandrake50 said:


> I spent something like 2 hours at the Cavalli table yesterday. Stillheart was there when I first stopped by and we got to chat a bit. Unfortunately I never got to listen to his 19 with the Carbon. There was a setup with the Hugo driving both the silicon and Carbon where I could switch back and forth. Of course is was impossible to really volume match and there is the signal to noise issue, but the little Silicon did very well next to the Carbon. I was impressed . I listened to the Carbon with the Ether, Ether C, HEK and Stillheart's HE 560. First, I am definitely not going to consider cancelling my order. This little amp plain sounded very, very nice.* If anyone is thinking that they want something with the traditional tube sound or something "warm" they will be disappointed. The little amp was simply neutral and grain free.* Regardless of what I used, including the HEK it handled them extremely well. I played the HEK much louder than I normally listen and there was no signs at all of the Carbon running out of clean power. With the 560, which I own and have 500 hors plus listening to, It was as good as I have heard them. Deep extended bass, clean grain free midrange and airy well defined treble without sounding etched. I was very impressed and quite happy to have one on order.
> 
> When Alex came back from lunch, he immediately asked me if I had everything I needed and introduced himself. I mentioned that I had a carbon on order and he quickly said, "I am real sorry for the delays". It really does seem to me that he is bothered by the situation and is doing all that he can to control the situation. I definitely am content to wait for delivery of my unit knowing that it will happen as soon as it is possible.
> 
> Alex talked me into listening to the Liquid Gold with the Abyss... I really should not have done that. It was likely the best sound I have experienced in a headphone setup. Already I am calculating how long it will take me to get the funds to duplicate it..


 
  
 Other people say it's warm. I'm confused


----------



## jamato8

youth said:


> Other people say it's warm. I'm confused


 

 If the amp is natural then it would be warm or whatever word you choose, based on the source. A warm sounding dac, then .. .


----------



## maxedfx

The general consensus is that the amp is neutral sounding with the cavalli house sound sig! 
I dunno what the cavalli house sound is, but others may be able to explain it!


----------



## mandrake50

youth said:


> Other people say it's warm. I'm confused


 
 I am not sure why this would be, all I can report is what I heard. In particular with the 560, I have used , recently, the headphone out of the DAC 1, TEAC, 301, the Pulse Infinity, the H10 (with a few sets of opamps), NFB 11 (now that one is warm) and speaker taps out of a Hafler DH 500 driven by the OPPO 105. In comparison to any of them, I did not find it warm. I perceived it to be extremely neutral.  It is all relative, that is why I mention some of the gear I have used.
  I also went directly to the Schiit table and listened to the Lyr 2 with the new Bifrost multi bit  using the Ether on both, I still would not be able to say the CArbon is warm... and lots of people have said the Lyr is on the bright side.


----------



## sensui123

Yes I believe there is a definite "Cavalli" sound when it comes to Alex's amps.  I speak from experience of owned the Liquid Fire, and now owning the Liquid Gold and Liquid Glass.  What I consider an absolutely transparent neutral amp would be a GSX....or maybe people haven't heard the GSX think Alex's solid state amps are transparent....that could also be the case.  But having the GSX and LAu on the same table back to back with the same headphone and source....I can definitely detect that familiar Cavalli signature that I love (a very guilty pleasure).  It's hard to describe.....the best I can describe is there is a hint of warmth and not at all analytical/detail retrieving with a grand soundstage.  I'm looking very forward to the Carbon as whenever that comes in, I will pick up a Hugo Chord to pair with it also on the travel trips so I can start listening to some headphones versus just IEMs.  Wish I was there to shake that man's (Alex's) hand, he's made awesome amps throughout all these years.


----------



## money4me247

sensui123 said:


> Yes I believe there is a definite "Cavalli" sound when it comes to Alex's amps.  I speak from experience of owned the Liquid Fire, and now owning the Liquid Gold and Liquid Glass.  What I consider an absolutely transparent neutral amp would be a GSX....or maybe people haven't heard the GSX think Alex's solid state amps are transparent....that could also be the case.  But having the GSX and LAu on the same table back to back with the same headphone and source....I can definitely detect that familiar Cavalli signature that I love (a very guilty pleasure).  It's hard to describe.....the best I can describe is there is a hint of warmth and not at all analytical/detail retrieving with a grand soundstage.  I'm looking very forward to the Carbon as whenever that comes in, I will pick up a Hugo Chord to pair with it also on the travel trips so I can start listening to some headphones versus just IEMs.  Wish I was there to shake that man's (Alex's) hand, he's made awesome amps throughout all these years.


 
 GSX-MK2 is more analytical in comparison from my experience demoing as well. really just depends on the personal preference which type of presentation style you prefer. both very well-made and great sounding options. The GSX-MK2 seems to have a harder hitting attack and relatively edgier in comparison. However, both have quite clean note edges and neither is unpleasant to listen to. the Cavalli products do seem to have a bit of "smoothening" to the attack and decay transients which is very enjoyable. I would agree that the GSX-MK2 would be the more clinical and 'transparent-er' option, but neither seems colored with excessive coldness or warmth. Hard to say which I prefer. Both really nice options.


----------



## chowmein83

sensui123 said:


> Yes I believe there is a definite "Cavalli" sound when it comes to Alex's amps.  I speak from experience of owned the Liquid Fire, and now owning the Liquid Gold and Liquid Glass.  What I consider an absolutely transparent neutral amp would be a GSX....or maybe people haven't heard the GSX think Alex's solid state amps are transparent....that could also be the case.  But having the GSX and LAu on the same table back to back with the same headphone and source....I can definitely detect that familiar Cavalli signature that I love (a very guilty pleasure).  It's hard to describe.....*the best I can describe is there is a hint of warmth and not at all analytical/detail retrieving with a grand soundstage.*  I'm looking very forward to the Carbon as whenever that comes in, I will pick up a Hugo Chord to pair with it also on the travel trips so I can start listening to some headphones versus just IEMs.  Wish I was there to shake that man's (Alex's) hand, he's made awesome amps throughout all these years.


 
  
 Pretty much agree with this, also having heard many of the Cavalli amps at various audio shows.


----------



## Stillhart

So at RMAF, I had my HE-560's hooked up to the LC and DAC-19 combo.  Someone PM'ed me after to show to ask what mods I did to make it sound so good.  I thought I'd just mention here my list of mods:
  
 - Grill mod (aesthetics only, no sonic difference)
 - Focus-A pads instead of the stock Focus pads (smooths out one treble peak)
  
 That's it.  Anyone who heard them and is wondering why they sounded so good, there's one simple answer:  it was hooked up to a killer amp + DAC combo.


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> So at RMAF, I had my HE-560's hooked up to the LC and DAC-19 combo.  Someone PM'ed me after to show to ask what mods I did to make it sound so good.  I thought I'd just mention here my list of mods:
> 
> - Grill mod (aesthetics only, no sonic difference)
> - Focus-A pads instead of the stock Focus pads (smooths out one treble peak)
> ...


 
 Dan - Meant to ask where you got those grills? John Exby had very similar grills on his HE-560's. Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> Dan - Meant to ask where you got those grills? John Exby had very similar grills on his HE-560's. Cheers


 
  
 I got them from these guys here:  https://www.etsy.com/shop/InspiredLaserDesign?section_id=15572586&ref=shopsection_leftnav_9
  
 Info on the mod in this thread here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/619447/hifiman-regrilling-mod


----------



## mandrake50

stillhart said:


> I got them from these guys here:  https://www.etsy.com/shop/InspiredLaserDesign?section_id=15572586&ref=shopsection_leftnav_9
> 
> Info on the mod in this thread here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/619447/hifiman-regrilling-mod


 

 I am curious, why did you not glue the fabric filters to the grill? BTW, the grills looked very nice and I like the red fabric!


----------



## Stillhart

mandrake50 said:


> I am curious, why did you not glue the fabric filters to the grill? BTW, the grills looked very nice and I like the red fabric!


 
  
 Well, I broke one of the grills when I was doing the mod and super-glued it back together.  I wasn't decided on whether to replace it or not so I didn't glue the fabric on just in case.  Then I kinda forgot about it for a few months.  lol  So basically no good reason.  

 Thanks for the nice comment.  


Spoiler: Pics for the curious


----------



## DigitalFreak

stillhart said:


> Well, I broke one of the grills when I was doing the mod and super-glued it back together.  I wasn't decided on whether to replace it or not so I didn't glue the fabric on just in case.  Then I kinda forgot about it for a few months.  lol  So basically no good reason.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the nice comment.
> ...




I vote you replace the current grill with a spiderweb grill and use a blue liner on one cup and red on the other. Make Spider-Man proud.


----------



## swspiers

buke9 said:


> I think the term I heard this weekend at the Nashville meet just might be right. It was called the Unicorn Amp. I am really considering canceling my order also. We just got pics of the front plate of an amp that was to be shipping end of Aug. that doesn't look good to be done by Nov. I would be surprised if it is delivered this year. I will hold out a little longer if we get a better update but I'm not holding my breathe.


 
 Sorry dude, I hate to be rude, but this is flat-out ridiculous.  Alex has been transparent throughout the process.
  
 I am slightly fatigued by people buying boutique-level gear, and then predicting BS like "Unicorn Amp".  This is how it goes with the small guys building quality products: Schiit had quite the process getting the Rag and the Yggy out. It's the nature of the beast, and just because people don't understand that when they pre-order equipment such as this does not make the gear "Unicorn" in any way. BTW, I'm not whining about you so much as the people who pontificate such drivel at meets.  I'm sure it makes them feel quite knowledgable and wise.  Perhaps they should stick with the Oppo HA-1 and call it a day...
  
 So, hang in there, dude.  Your patience is likely to be rewarded!


----------



## x RELIC x

Aw, don't pick on the HA-1.... :wink_face:


----------



## sheldaze

swspiers said:


> Sorry dude, I hate to be rude, but this is flat-out ridiculous.  Alex has been transparent throughout the process.
> 
> I am slightly fatigued by people buying boutique-level gear, and then predicting BS like "Unicorn Amp".  This is how it goes with the small guys building quality products: Schiit had quite the process getting the Rag and the Yggy out. It's the nature of the beast, and just because people don't understand that when they pre-order equipment such as this does not make the gear "Unicorn" in any way. BTW, I'm not whining about you so much as the people who pontificate such drivel at meets.  I'm sure it makes them feel quite knowledgable and wise.  Perhaps they should stick with the Oppo HA-1 and call it a day...
> 
> So, hang in there, dude.  Your patience is likely to be rewarded!


 
 Just letting you know, I was at that meet. The person is simply reporting what he heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I don't think he means any personal disrespect towards Cavalli. In fact, there was a Liquid Carbon at the meet, thanks to the generosity of Cavalli! I spent a good portion of my time listening to it, through Audeze LCD-X, Mr. Speakers Ether, and HiFiMan HE-1000. I'm reassured of the sonic benefits. But he was just re-stating the general sentiment, which was pretty obvious. The people there weren't bashing it or any of the Cavalli amplifiers. But they had some legitimate concerns - and yes, did commonly refer to it as "Unicorn Amp". But I've heard a lot of use of the word unicorn on this site, not just this thread


----------



## swspiers

sheldaze said:


> Just letting you know, I was at that meet. The person is simply reporting what he heard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Understood, which is why I pointed out I wasn't so much whining about him. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just because this is common does not make it ok.  One of the worst aspects of the audio hobby in general, IMHO.


----------



## sheldaze

+1 +1 +1
  
 Yes, all the posts coming from the the RMAF keep stating how much he truly feels for his customers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 That kind of sentiment is rare in the consumer world. We should be glad to have it and should support it.


----------



## Stillhart

digitalfreak said:


> I vote you replace the current grill with a spiderweb grill and use a blue liner on one cup and red on the other. Make Spider-Man proud.


 
  
 Honestly, my son would LOVE that!  Maybe I will...


----------



## Evshrug

buke9 said:


> I think the term I heard this weekend at the Nashville meet just might be right. It was called the Unicorn Amp. I am really considering canceling my order also. We just got pics of the front plate of an amp that was to be shipping end of Aug. that doesn't look good to be done by Nov. I would be surprised if it is delivered this year. I will hold out a little longer if we get a better update but I'm not holding my breathe.


 

 How many people have rebuked you and those at the Nashville meet so far? Hahah!
 Everybody loves a unicorn, much more flattering than Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster, however in this case the amp is confirmed and heard at several Head-Fi meets (3 or 4 so far?). I got to hear it too, and it's really impressive... not warm, just really clean, clear, and not sharp like something that boosts treble or can't supply enough current. It was a relief to hear it (and compare it) to other amps, so I know what I'm getting and how it can outperform many other amps. So good with the HD800! That's a bit of a tricky headphone, but I had a very full and fun experience with that headphone on the LC. Definitely an amp worth waiting for!


----------



## Evshrug

x relic x said:


> Aw, don't pick on the HA-1....


 

 I liked the HA-1 too! btw, and completely off topic, your Ether C-Rex stickers were EVERYWHERE at RMAF, so it was like you were there! Jerry Harvey guys even doodled funny hair and pants on them, my fiancé is cute so they gave her one lol (PM me for a pic if you like). Wish I could've gotten to meet you!


----------



## pippen99

evshrug said:


> How many people have rebuked you and those at the Nashville meet so far? Hahah!
> Everybody loves a unicorn, much more flattering than Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster, however in this case the amp is confirmed and heard at several Head-Fi meets (3 or 4 so far?). I got to hear it too, and it's really impressive... not warm, just really clean, clear, and not sharp like something that boosts treble or can't supply enough current. It was a relief to hear it (and compare it) to other amps, so I know what I'm getting and how it can outperform many other amps. So good with the HD800! That's a bit of a tricky headphone, but I had a very full and fun experience with that headphone on the LC. Definitely an amp worth waiting for!


 
 I​ guess people were saying "unicorn amp"  out of my hearing since I was the one who brought the LC to the meet.  Dr. Cavalli and I emailed back and forth after the meet and he told me the electronics including the upgraded volume pot are ready.  The holdup now is the enclosure pieces and since he is posting pictures of the front and back pieces progress is being made.  The only time I have considered canceling was a brief moment when I considered turning the Carbon into a Crimson'


----------



## Stillhart

pippen99 said:


> I​ guess people were saying "unicorn amp"  out of my hearing since I was the one who brought the LC to the meet.  Dr. Cavalli and I emailed back and forth after the meet and he told me the electronics including the upgraded volume pot are ready.  The holdup now is the enclosure pieces and since he is posting pictures of the front and back pieces progress is being made.  The only time I have considered canceling was a brief moment when I considered turning the Carbon into a Crimson'


 
  
 I'd tell you to go for it, but that ship has sailed.  All of the remaining Liquid Crimsons sold last weekend so those of us who couldn't afford it will have to wait for (hopefully) another production run.  Me and @Hansotek will be crying over our beers for a few days until the memory fades...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I'd tell you to go for it, but that ship has sailed.  All of the remaining Liquid Crimsons sold last weekend so those of us who couldn't afford it will have to wait for (hopefully) another production run.  Me and @Hansotek will be crying over our beers for a few days until the memory fades...


 

 Mind if I join you for a drink? I'm sad that I didn't have the funds myself.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Mind if I join you for a drink? I'm sad that I didn't have the funds myself.


 
  
 Sure, let's go halvsies on a bottle of Arran 10 year.  I don't like whiskey, but dang, that stuff was good...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Sure, let's go halvsies on a bottle of Arran 10 year.  I don't like whiskey, but dang, that stuff was good...


 
  
 Sounds good! I've already located a local shop that may carry it and I plan to pay them a visit tomorrow. Iain is a jerk for introducing me to such a fine beverage. It pairs so nicely with the LC.


----------



## doctorjazz

So, do I dare ask if anyone could comment on Caravan versus Crimson?


----------



## buke9

sheldaze said:


> Just letting you know, I was at that meet. The person is simply reporting what he heard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is exactly what was meant by what was said. You people are a little too serious about anything said about the LC . Nothing was said about Dr .Cavalli or any of his equipment all of which is top notch. I wish I had the cash to drop on a Liquid Glass or Crimson I would do it in a second. I bought the LC in April because it was good.


evshrug said:


> How many people have rebuked you and those at the Nashville meet so far? Hahah!
> Everybody loves a unicorn, much more flattering than Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster, however in this case the amp is confirmed and heard at several Head-Fi meets (3 or 4 so far?). I got to hear it too, and it's really impressive... not warm, just really clean, clear, and not sharp like something that boosts treble or can't supply enough current. It was a relief to hear it (and compare it) to other amps, so I know what I'm getting and how it can outperform many other amps. So good with the HD800! That's a bit of a tricky headphone, but I had a very full and fun experience with that headphone on the LC. Definitely an amp worth waiting for!


 
 Why the snark? Hahah. The LC was a two of the Nashville meets and no one said it wasn't real it was just a little bit frustration waiting. But if it makes you feel better saying I and others have been rebuked well go right ahead and make yourself feel superior to all us lesser people. No one demeaned Dr. Cavalli or any of his equipment or his desire to get this amp out as soon as possible. Please take a breath and relax. The Unicorn comment was just a bit of levity nothing more.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> So, do I dare ask if anyone could comment on Caravan versus Crimson?


 
  
 I posted something about it in the Crimson thread after the Schiit show a month ago or so.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/737694/new-cavalli-audio-liquid-crimson-amp/135#post_11840853


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> I'd tell you to go for it, but that ship has sailed.  All of the remaining Liquid Crimsons sold last weekend so those of us who couldn't afford it will have to wait for (hopefully) another production run.  Me and @Hansotek will be crying over our beers for a few days until the memory fades...


 
  
 Why did you have to go and bring up the Liquid Crimson again? The pain was just starting to fade...
  


axelcloris said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, let's go halvsies on a bottle of Arran 10 year.  I don't like whiskey, but dang, that stuff was good...
> ...


 
  
 We three will need much booze to repress this sorrow, but if we go thirdsies on the bottle, maybe we will be able to afford our Liquid Crimsons sooner.


----------



## DecentLevi

Come on, still no comments on my theory on why we're still waiting?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3315#post_11962321
  
 PS- I agree that it is quite rare in the community for a product such as the LC amp to get such renowned approval. As is the new Beyer. DT 1770 as well, and I'll predict these two pair well together


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> Sure, let's go halvsies on a bottle of Arran 10 year.  I don't like whiskey, but dang, that stuff was good...



Hmm I need to look up Arran 10 year old wiskey, so I can have a glass full, as I enjoy the Liquid Crimson, when it ships to me. I sold to my uncle my Asgard 2, Lyr2, Alpha Primes and AKG K7XX , to help pay for the Crimson. It will take 2 to 3 weeks before it gets here so should I order any particular NOS tube to get the best out of the Crimson? I have learned my lesson and will not spontaneously purchase something beyond my normal means. I truly hope I like the Liquid Crimson.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks for the link, went and read the impressions. WHAT ELSE WAS I EXPECTING? So, it's better, but the LC still seems appealing.


----------



## Evshrug

buke9 said:


> This is exactly what was meant by what was said. You people are a little too serious about anything said about the LC . Nothing was said about Dr .Cavalli or any of his equipment all of which is top notch. I wish I had the cash to drop on a Liquid Glass or Crimson I would do it in a second. I bought the LC in April because it was good.
> Why the snark? Hahah. The LC was a two of the Nashville meets and no one said it wasn't real it was just a little bit frustration waiting. But if it makes you feel better saying I and others have been rebuked well go right ahead and make yourself feel superior to all us lesser people. No one demeaned Dr. Cavalli or any of his equipment or his desire to get this amp out as soon as possible. Please take a breath and relax. The Unicorn comment was just a bit of levity nothing more.




Ok, translation time for what I said earlier! I saw your post and didn't see what others might have said after... I just know that putting out an opinion about a touchy subject usually gets a lot of replies! I laughed cuz I've been there too. I think that "unicorn" at least has a positive connotation vs other mystical beasts (how many people would classify Unicorns as a monster except "The Monster Book of Monsters" from Harry Potter?). Unlike mythical beasts, at least people have heard the LC... Dunno if you've heard it, and I barely had the money to go to RMAF so I felt like sharing what impressions I could on the sound for anyone curious... and I saw people writing asking if it was warm and I wouldn't classify it as such as I would classify an LCD or HD650 as warm.

I haven't said anything negative in my posts, so... responding negatively and assuming I was being rude, that's all you.


----------



## Hansotek

reddog said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, let's go halvsies on a bottle of Arran 10 year.  I don't like whiskey, but dang, that stuff was good...
> ...


 
  
@reddog - I hate you so much right now.


----------



## doctorjazz

hansotek said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > stillhart said:
> ...




Is your uncle looking for any other gear? 
I've got lots to spare...

(2 posts away from 5.000 posts-I gotta get a life...)


----------



## buke9

evshrug said:


> Ok, translation time for what I said earlier! I saw your post and didn't see what others might have said after... I just know that putting out an opinion about a touchy subject usually gets a lot of replies! I laughed cuz I've been there too. I think that "unicorn" at least has a positive connotation vs other mystical beasts (how many people would classify Unicorns as a monster except "The Monster Book of Monsters" from Harry Potter?). Unlike mythical beasts, at least people have heard the LC... Dunno if you've heard it, and I barely had the money to go to RMAF so I felt like sharing what impressions I could on the sound for anyone curious... and I saw people writing asking if it was warm and I wouldn't classify it as such as I would classify an LCD or HD650 as warm.
> 
> I haven't said anything negative in my posts, so... responding negatively and assuming I was being rude, that's all Hahah


 
 I guess you don't read my post as I said it was at two meets and I heard it that was the reason I bought it. Hahah that is what would be called rude. I don't what your problem is and truly I don't care. I don't think I made negative comments but if it makes you feel better that I did then so be it. I will stop here.


----------



## Stillhart

Deep breaths guys.  Let's keep things friendly.


----------



## buke9

stillhart said:


> Deep breaths guys.  Let's keep things friendly.


 
 Never had a problem with anyone and make one comment and you thought I said something about their mother. Damn.


----------



## zachawry

Can I hook up headphones to both balanced outs (RSA/ALO and XLR) simultaneously? 
  
 Sorry if this has been answered previously.


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> Can I hook up headphones to both balanced outs (RSA/ALO and XLR) simultaneously?
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered previously.



+1 that is a great question sir. I hope somebody answers soon. Please have a good morning.


----------



## Stillhart

reddog said:


> +1 that is a great question sir. I hope somebody answers soon. Please have a good morning.


 
  
 If I had an RSA-terminated cable handy I'd test for you.  I've tried XLR and TRS at the same time, but not the other two.


----------



## Paul - iBasso

stillhart said:


> If I had an RSA-terminated cable handy I'd test for you.  I've tried XLR and TRS at the same time, but not the other two.


 

 I would ask the manufacture. Some amps don't work well with both types of terminals being used.


----------



## Hansotek

@reddog - did you hang on to your Telefunkens? Are you going to give those a roll in the Crimson? Do you have the Reflektors or Miniwatts? I'd love to hear how that goes!
  
 Apparently, we Lyr vets are a knowledgeable bunch. Alex Cavalli seemed pretty impressed with all my semi-useless knowledge of 6922-type tubes.


----------



## x RELIC x

hansotek said:


> @reddog
> - did you hang on to your Telefunkens? Are you going to give those a roll in the Crimson? Do you have the Reflektors or Miniwatts? I'd love to hear how that goes!
> 
> Apparently, we Lyr vets are a knowledgeable bunch. Alex Cavalli seemed pretty impressed with all my semi-useless knowledge of 6922-type tubes.




Haha, when did the Liquid Carbon start using tubes?! :tongue_smile:

Perhaps a PM would be better for the topic.....


----------



## Hansotek

x relic x said:


> Haha, when did the Liquid Carbon start using tubes?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was asking him about the Crimson as a followup from yesterday. Obviously, there's a thread for that too. It was only meant to be a two post side convo.


----------



## bflat

This thread must stop at exactly 599 pages.


----------



## reddog

hansotek said:


> @reddog
> - did you hang on to your Telefunkens? Are you going to give those a roll in the Crimson? Do you have the Reflektors or Miniwatts? I'd love to hear how that goes!
> 
> Apparently, we Lyr vets are a knowledgeable bunch. Alex Cavalli seemed pretty impressed with all my semi-useless knowledge of 6922-type tubes.



I have Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes which I plan to try in it. I will try out my Ediswan tubes in it. The Crimson comes with a gold lion. I will like to try other NOS tubes it it and will keep you and others on head-fi appraised.


----------



## runeight

zachawry said:


> Can I hook up headphones to both balanced outs (RSA/ALO and XLR) simultaneously?
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered previously.


 
  
 Yes. Unless the headphones are crazy power sucking pieces the amp should handle this no problem. For example, normal over ear headphones in one jack and IEM in the other shouldn't normally cause any problems. Although you might have trouble adjusting the volume suitably for both.
  
 However, while you can also connect both balanced and SE at the same time, please remember that the SE adds its burden to only half of each amp. This unbalances the amps and will reduce the "common mode" rejection of some noise and harmonics. You're going to ask how much and this depends on the load you stick on the SE jack.


----------



## zachawry

runeight said:


> Yes. Unless the headphones are crazy power sucking pieces the amp should handle this no problem. For example, normal over ear headphones in one jack and IEM in the other shouldn't normally cause any problems. Although you might have trouble adjusting the volume suitably for both.
> 
> However, while you can also connect both balanced and SE at the same time, please remember that the SE adds its burden to only half of each amp. This unbalances the amps and will reduce the "common mode" rejection of some noise and harmonics. You're going to ask how much and this depends on the load you stick on the SE jack.


 
  
 Thanks very much. I have an Alpha Prime and an Ether I'd like to have the option of running out of the LC simultaneously. I'm not sure how big of a difference there is in impedence between those two, but I think it's not that much....


----------



## DecentLevi

Just keep in mind though that balanced puts out literally twice the volume as normal SE, so it may not be desirable to run them in parallel on any amp, unless you can get a balanced inline vol. limiter
  
 EDIT: another way around this would be to have a high-z 'can on the balanced, and a low-z can on the SE


----------



## zachawry

I would never try to run iems and my full cans at the same volume. 

I am looking forward to Ethers and Alpha Primes at the same time through the two balanced outs, though. 

My son is just getting into music, and I want to indoctrinate him proper!!!


----------



## drgajet

zachawry said:


> I would never try to run iems and my full cans at the same volume.
> 
> I am looking forward to Ethers and Alpha Primes at the same time through the two balanced outs, though.
> 
> My son is just getting into music, and I want to indoctrinate him proper!!!




Does your son get the ether or the alpha prime?


----------



## zachawry

He gets both, and he doesn't get his dang dessert until he can articulate some differences between the two!


----------



## drgajet

Wow, trial by fire.


----------



## doctorjazz

But, what a payoff!


----------



## potkettleblack

Has anybody used these with the 3f's or lcd x's? Would like opinions.


----------



## pippen99

potkettleblack said:


> Has anybody used these with the 3f's or lcd x's? Would like opinions.


 
 After auditioning several phones at the spring Nashville meet with the LC I chose the LCD-X as my choice.  Recently I got to spend almost a full week with the LC when Dr.Cavalli sent me a prototype to take to the fall Nashville meet.  This was the first time I was able to use the X's balanced.  I was very impressed.  Great dynamics, tight bass and clear highs.  A good decision if I say so myself.  I was sad to send it on to RMAF.


----------



## mscott58

pippen99 said:


> After auditioning several phones at the spring Nashville meet with the LC I chose the LCD-X as my choice.  Recently I got to spend almost a full week with the LC when Dr.Cavalli sent me a prototype to take to the fall Nashville meet.  This was the first time I was able to use the X's balanced.  I was very impressed.  Great dynamics, tight bass and clear highs.  A good decision if I say so myself.  I was sad to send it on to RMAF.




3F's pair really well also. The LC makes each of the Audeze's shine in the respective areas of strength. The LC isn't going to make a can sound different IMHO, it will instead allow it to be the best form of its natural character. The LS looks to do the same, just in a truly portable fashion. Cheers


----------



## potkettleblack

Thanks both.


----------



## zaintachik

Are we there yet?? Hehehe. Another month or so to go


----------



## doctorjazz

...maybe...


----------



## Audio Addict

I am good for the wait as my Pulse X Infinity arrived yesterday.


----------



## mscott58

audio addict said:


> I am good for the wait as my Pulse X Infinity arrived yesterday.


 
 Enjoy! Give it some time to settle in. Cheers


----------



## DVass13

audio addict said:


> I am good for the wait as my Pulse X Infinity arrived yesterday.


 
  
 I'm hoping mine should arrive soon. I just filled out (yet another) shipping address survey. I kind of thought I'd have the LC in hand before the Infinity, though. But I'm not too bummed about the wait. After almost two years for the Infinity, I'm fine waiting another month or two for the LC. The anticipation is getting pretty intense...


----------



## buke9

Got a question . On another forum a person wants to use single ended phones on a balanced output and wonders if it would damage the amp to do so? To me I don't think so but others says it will damage the amp.


----------



## hemtmaker

buke9 said:


> Got a question . On another forum a person wants to use single ended phones on a balanced output and wonders if it would damage the amp to do so? To me I don't think so but others says it will damage the amp.



It will short for sure.


----------



## buke9

hemtmaker said:


> It will short for sure.


 
 Youv'e done it?


----------



## mscott58

buke9 said:


> Got a question . On another forum a person wants to use single ended phones on a balanced output and wonders if it would damage the amp to do so? To me I don't think so but others says it will damage the amp.




Not a good idea as others have said.


----------



## nicolo

buke9 said:


> Got a question . On another forum a person wants to use single ended phones on a balanced output and wonders if it would damage the amp to do so? To me I don't think so but others says it will damage the amp.


 
  
 It will definitely short for sure. Either the amp gets damaged or the headphones or both.


----------



## jamato8

buke9 said:


> Youv'e done it?


 

 You have a flow of voltage and current on the + and - for balanced right and left. If you use a single ended phone, that means that you are running both R and L negative together and that is not how it works.


----------



## Stillhart

Never hook an SE headphone into a balanced output.


----------



## zachawry

Just out of curiosity, would that hurt the amp or the hp or both?


----------



## x RELIC x

zachawry said:


> Just out of curiosity, would that hurt the amp or the hp or both?




I don't know but I imagine this........ Can't be good for either.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

buke9 said:


> Got a question . On another forum a person wants to use single ended phones on a balanced output and wonders if it would damage the amp to do so? To me I don't think so but others says it will damage the amp.


 
  
 There's a reason why Alex includes a singe ended output...


----------



## DigitalFreak

Images from CanJam 2015


----------



## tuxbass

Would this amp be a good choice for using with ETHER balanced and JH 16 unbalanced ?


----------



## zachawry

tuxbass said:


> Would this amp be a good choice for using with ETHER balanced and JH 16 unbalanced ?


 
  
 Many have stated that it's a great pairing with Ether. Haven't heard it myself, but I can't wait to.


----------



## money4me247

tuxbass said:


> Would this amp be a good choice for using with ETHER balanced and JH 16 unbalanced ?


 
 really this amplifier works well with most full-sized headphones. for iems, you may need to use balanced connectors or else there may be a bit of noise for very sensitive headphones. not sure how ideal it will be with the jh16 unbalanced.


----------



## tuxbass

money4me247 said:


> really this amplifier works well with most full-sized headphones. for iems, you may need to use balanced connectors or else there may be a bit of noise for very sensitive headphones. not sure how ideal it will be with the jh16 unbalanced.


 
 Thanks that makes sense.
 According to the website, one can still order this Amp, is that right ? I am surprised they haven't got 500 orders already.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Has anyone heard TH900's with Liquid Carbon? This amp just recently peaked my interest, and to my understanding there are some production delays. Is there any information when Liquid Carbon should be out? I'm looking to sell off my current amp and replace it with something cheaper, and this looks promising. Also, what are the chances of the limited production run running out in the near future?


----------



## DecentLevi

Head-Fi'er @stjj89 tried his TH-900 headphone at the SF meet with the LC amp and liked it enough to convince him to buy the amp. He then further enhanced the experience by having somebody do a custom recabling to balanced for him.
  
 Oh a comment about the user on the last page - isn't there a balanced to SE adapter he could just use?


----------



## Zojokkeli

decentlevi said:


> Head-Fi'er @stjj89
> tried his TH-900 headphone at the SF meet with the LC amp and liked it enough to convince him to buy the amp. He then further enhanced the experience by having somebody do a custom recabling to balanced for him.
> 
> Oh a comment about the user on the last page - isn't there a balanced to SE adapter he could just use?




Thanks! If I placed my order right now, would it be likely for me to receive the amp this year?


----------



## Zojokkeli

Oh well, order placed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I went with the USPS shipping as Fedex was roughly 3 times more expensive.


----------



## rollinbr

decentlevi said:


> Oh a comment about the user on the last page - isn't there a balanced to SE adapter he could just use?


 
  
 There is an adapter to go from balanced to SE but there is not an adapter to go from SE to balanced. The person on the previous page wanted to go from SE to balanced. The balanced to SE looks like this.


----------



## adobotj

rollinbr said:


> There is an adapter to go from balanced to SE but there is not an adapter to go from SE to balanced. The person on the previous page wanted to go from SE to balanced. The balanced to SE looks like this.




Isn't this a SE to Bal adapter? And reading through the thread, that person wants to use se cans on a balanced output. So it's going to be balanced to se cans (balanced to se adapter). 

Edit: I think I'm confused after re reading it as I base the adapter nomenclature from amp to headphones direction (?)  

I have a rsa bal to se adapter but haven't tried It yet though. I fear it would damage the amp.


----------



## runeight

Got to be careful with adapters.
  
 The risky situation is where you take headphones terminated with 3 wires --- 2 signals and one ground (TRS). Then you wire this to a 4 pin balanced connector where the 2 signals go to the right places and the remaining ground is connected to two of the outputs from the bal out. This will short the amps together at their outputs likely doing damage.


----------



## jamato8

adobotj said:


> Isn't this a SE to Bal adapter? And reading through the thread, that person wants to use se cans on a balanced output. So it's going to be balanced to se cans (balanced to se adapter).
> 
> Edit: I think I'm confused after re reading it as I base the adapter nomenclature from amp to headphones direction (?)
> 
> ...


 

 If your headphone cable is terminated in a Kobiconn connector and then an adapter is used that changes it to a single ended connection, you can use that on the single ended output of an amp but you can't run the other way around. I have all my phones balanced and I have connectors that make them single ended, depending on what amp I am using.


----------



## J4MES

jamato8 said:


> If your headphone cable is terminated in a Kobiconn connector and then an adapter is used that changes it to a single ended connection, you can use that on the single ended output of an amp but you can't run the other way around. I have all my phones balanced and I have connectors that make them single ended, depending on what amp I am using.




I'm having a bit of a panic now as I've ordered exactly what you've done. Cable with Kobiconn and a 3.5mm adapter for my incoming Noble K10. They will be safe to use with the Kubiconn connected to the Liquid Carbon? I have an XLR coming as well for my Alpha Dogs but seeing as you can buy an XLR cable option from Mr Speakers I'm not worried.


----------



## jamato8

j4mes said:


> I'm having a bit of a panic now as I've ordered exactly what you've done. Cable with Kobiconn and a 3.5mm adapter for my incoming Noble K10. They will be safe to use with the Kubiconn connected to the Liquid Carbon? I have an XLR coming as well for my Alpha Dogs but seeing as you can buy an XLR cable option from Mr Speakers I'm not worried.


 
 If you have the cable from your monitors to Kobiconn, then you are fine as that is balanced and the LC uses a Kobiconn female for one of the balanced connections. Then if you want to use the monitors to a single ended amp, you can just plug the adapter that has a Kobiconn male to a Kobiconn female to TRS (the TRS then goes into the amp in single ended). You can ground both negative leads on the phones without problem (which is what the adapter does), leaving the R and L positive.


----------



## runeight

Hey guys please see update here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available


----------



## DecentLevi

Very nice, the amps will start shipping early/mid November and should be finished by the end of the year. Seems like you're shipping them as production finishes which is logical. But are they going to be sent out on a random order, or based on the time the order was received?


----------



## AxelCloris

decentlevi said:


> Very nice, the amps will start shipping early/mid November and should be finished by the end of the year. Seems like you're shipping them as production finishes which is logical. But are they going to be sent out on a random order, or based on the time the order was received?


 

 I'd imagine the easiest method is to simply follow the order numbers.


----------



## runeight

Yes, that's right, we'll ship out in the order the orders were received.


----------



## badf00d

Thanks for the update. Looks like I may get it close to my birthday.


----------



## Aiyah

runeight said:


> Hey guys please see update here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available




I just ordered today. I was a bit surprised I was able to. Looking forward immensely to receiving it!


----------



## nanoevil

runeight said:


> Hey guys please see update here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available


 
 Thanks to the update!!!
  
 Hopefully I get mine shipped before the 30th so I can be there in the US when it arrives


----------



## Hoztel

November is coming....  ahh hearing the production and shipping is on time is great! 
 I know I'm ready for my LC =D When it arrives, I'll be using glue on my chair so I can't get up for at least 24 hours! LOL


----------



## Youth

hoztel said:


> November is coming....  ahh hearing the production and shipping is on time is great!
> I know I'm ready for my LC =D When it arrives, I'll be using glue on my chair so I can't get up for at least 24 hours! LOL


 
  
 I don't think you need glue at all


----------



## asgeir101

I jumped ship to the Liquid Crimson during the RMAF special. Feels a bit strange since I have been waiting on it for long and now its just on the doorsteps!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hopefully the other LC will reduce my longing for this little thing


----------



## Stillhart

asgeir101 said:


> I jumped ship to the Liquid Crimson during the RMAF special. Feels a bit strange since I have been waiting on it for long and now its just on the doorsteps!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Trust me, it will.  The Carbon is awesome, but the Crimson is awesomer.  :-D


----------



## drgajet

asgeir101 said:


> I jumped ship to the Liquid Crimson during the RMAF special. Feels a bit strange since I have been waiting on it for long and now its just on the doorsteps!:confused_face(1):
> 
> Hopefully the other LC will reduce my longing for this little thing




Ok, follow me here. Use the Crimson at home. Use the Carbon to take that Cavalli awesomeness with you. No need to give up on either, this is what I'm doing. Then I will get the new portable when it comes out to be truly portable. Sound crazy, I think not.

Jim


----------



## asgeir101

drgajet said:


> Ok, follow me here. Use the Crimson at home. Use the Carbon to take that Cavalli awesomeness with you. No need to give up on either, this is what I'm doing. Then I will get the new portable when it comes out to be truly portable. Sound crazy, I think not.
> 
> Jim


 
 Definitely not crazy.... but somewhat expensive


----------



## drgajet

asgeir101 said:


> Definitely not crazy.... but somewhat expensive




Having met, visited and eaten meals with Dr. Cavalli at three of the last four CanJam's I think he is an awesome person and makes wonderful products. It therefore makes my proud to support him and his company.

Jim


----------



## mscott58

drgajet said:


> Having met, visited and eaten meals with Dr. Cavalli at three of the last four CanJam's I think he is an awesome person and makes wonderful products. It therefore makes my proud to support him and his company.
> 
> Jim




I'd second that Jim! Alex is indeed awesome. Cheers


----------



## hifi808

aiyah said:


> I just ordered today. I was a bit surprised I was able to. Looking forward immensely to receiving it!


 

 Me too, got my order in today...couldn't resist any longer.  Surprised but pleased that all 500 haven't already been snatched up.
  
 I'm at the rear of the queue, but at least I'm in the queue!


----------



## buke9

Ordered mine on April 18 hope I won't have to wait till December.


----------



## Aiyah

Anyone have any recommendations for a synergistic DAC to pair with the LC? I'm thinking maybe the Bifrost MB, but it's only single ended so not too sure. Anyone have any real good combos they've tried with DACs that are less than $600?


----------



## Audio Addict

The new Chord Mojo looks interting.


----------



## bflat

aiyah said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for a synergistic DAC to pair with the LC? I'm thinking maybe the Bifrost MB, but it's only single ended so not too sure. Anyone have any real good combos they've tried with DACs that are less than $600?


 

 LC converts SE input to balanced output so Bifrost MB is a fine choice in that price range. I am a total covert to R2R DACs though. I personally think this whole SE versus balanced debate is on the same level as 16/44 tracks versus 24/96. If there are differences, it's pretty small.


----------



## Stillhart

aiyah said:


> Anyone have any recommendations for a synergistic DAC to pair with the LC? I'm thinking maybe the Bifrost MB, but it's only single ended so not too sure. Anyone have any real good combos they've tried with DACs that are less than $600?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
  
 There's a thread for that!


----------



## aqsw

bflat said:


> LC converts SE input to balanced output so Bifrost MB is a fine choice in that price range. I am a total covert to R2R DACs though. I personally think this whole SE versus balanced debate is on the same level as 16/44 tracks versus 24/96. If there are differences, it's pretty small.




Some dacs are se and balanced out. My Hegel which has both highly recommends using the balanced out, as it was designed better . Nothing against the se versus balanced carbon phase stuff, but after spending alot of dollars on a dac, I think I will use their recommendations. An inferior dac may not matter.


----------



## Stillhart

aqsw said:


> Some dacs are se and balanced out. My Hegel which has both highly recommends using the balanced out, as it was designed better . Nothing against the se versus balanced carbon phase stuff, but after spending alot of dollars on a dac, I think I will use their recommendations. An inferior dac may not matter.


 
  
 He was referring to balanced vs SE in theory.  For any given piece of equipment in practice, it will be designed to run best in SE or balanced mode.
  
 If "inferior" equipment uses SE, I wonder why the Liquid Crimson costs 4-5x the Liquid Carbon...


----------



## aqsw

stillhart said:


> He was referring to balanced vs SE in theory.  For any given piece of equipment in practice, it will be designed to run best in SE or balanced mode.
> 
> If "inferior" equipment uses SE, I wonder why the Liquid Crimson costs 4-5x the Liquid Carbon...


z
I said an inferior dac. I didnt compare the crimson to the carbon. Your inferior equipment quote about the carbon to the crimson came from ??
I stand by original post, when it comes to my dac. You can read anything you want to in it.


----------



## tuxbass

Alright finally succumbed to the temptation and ordered the LC.
 It's going to be a very long wait for my ETHER  ... but I guess it will be waiting with it's balanced DUM cable.


----------



## Arnotts

aqsw said:


> z
> I said an inferior dac. I didnt compare the crimson to the carbon. Your inferior equipment quote about the carbon to the crimson came from ??
> I stand by original post, when it comes to my dac. You can read anything you want to in it.


 
 Of course you use the best output from your DAC, whether it's balanced or single ended. The Bifrost multi bit is ONLY single ended, so the best (and only) output is the single ended output. One of the great things about the Liquid Carbon is that it doesn't matter whether the best output from your DAC is single ended or balanced, the LC will make the best of both.


----------



## swspiers

arnotts said:


> Of course you use the best output from your DAC, whether it's balanced or single ended. The Bifrost multi bit is ONLY single ended, so the best (and only) output is the single ended output. One of the great things about the Liquid Carbon is that it doesn't matter whether the best output from your DAC is single ended or balanced, the LC will make the best of both.


 
 +1
  
 This may be hard to wrap our heads around.  Most DAC's I know that offer both SE and balanced compromise the SE in one way or another.  It's a design choice, and a pragmatic one at that. But in _"theory" _there's not much difference. IME, in practice, it's a whole other story.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Well, I'll guess another 3 weeks until shipping begins. I'm excited and happy the time is coming up!


----------



## Hoztel

pirakaphile said:


> Well, I'll guess another 3 weeks until shipping begins. I'm excited and happy the time is coming up!


 

 its so close i could care less about 3 weeks now hahah i have order 671 if i remember right =D


----------



## SuperU

I had not heard there was a shipping date announced and thought due to the setbacks we were looking at some time in Jan or so.
  
 Has there been an announcement I missed?


----------



## stjj89

superu said:


> I had not heard there was a shipping date announced and thought due to the setbacks we were looking at some time in Jan or so.
> 
> Has there been an announcement I missed?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available#post_11504593
  


> Keep in mind that though we will begin shipping and go as fast as we can, we can't get all the amps shipped in a few days or even a week. It will probably take 3-4 weeks to get them all out. We intend to get all orders delivered well before the end of the year.


----------



## SuperU

stjj89 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available#post_11504593


 
 Ohhhh - I didn't know.
  
 FANTASTIC news. Now I'm really getting excited.  Maybe I'll have mine by Christmas.
  
 Thanks for responding and letting me know.


----------



## stjj89

superu said:


> Ohhhh - I didn't know.
> 
> FANTASTIC news. Now I'm really getting excited.  Maybe I'll have mine by Christmas.
> 
> Thanks for responding and letting me know.




My pleasure. The wait is finally coming to an end!


----------



## SuperU

stjj89 said:


> My pleasure. The wait is finally coming to an end!


 
 Yeah man. I'm super excited.
  
 I wrestled with this decision as I would like one of his higher end amps. In the end I went ahead and ordered. Then started to get really excited as I heard people who had heard it, talk about it.
  
 Then when it was delayed, I thought, you know, stuff happens. Patience is what I would hope for if I were in Alex's shoes and patience is what I'll give. He has been most honorable with me in the few times we have interacted.
  
 So I tried not to pay much attention to things so I wouldn't feel sad I don't have it yet. LOL And this couldn't be better news. So yeah, I'm excited too.


----------



## Youth

So what powerplugs are you guys gonna buy for the Liquid Carbon? Thinking about getting one of these: http://www.jenving.com/products/eu-49


----------



## Pirakaphile

youth said:


> So what powerplugs are you guys gonna buy for the Liquid Carbon? Thinking about getting one of these: http://www.jenving.com/products/eu-49



I found a printer plug from the 90's in the basement that'll do until I get one from Emotiva.


----------



## drgajet

I bought an emotiva, very nice, but I may use a ps audio jewel also.

Jim


----------



## tuxbass

What a crazy time to be in this hobby ... what do you guys think of this as a DAC for LC:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785553/grace-design-x-massdrop-m9xx-dac-amp-review-first-impressions#post_12017933


----------



## Cardiiiii

youth said:


> So what powerplugs are you guys gonna buy for the Liquid Carbon? Thinking about getting one of these: http://www.jenving.com/products/eu-49


 
 Picked up the MAP1 from Morrow Audio.


----------



## tuxbass

cardiiiii said:


> Picked up the MAP1 from Morrow Audio.


 
 How did you guys know what type of termination is needed for the power cables ?


----------



## bearFNF

tuxbass said:


> How did you guys know what type of termination is needed for the power cables ?


 

 Its been talked about a lot on the various threads.




The whole discussion about why there will not be a cable with the amp when it ships. 




  
 Here is a picture of the rear of the amp:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available/615#post_11798204


----------



## tuxbass

bearfnf said:


> Its been talked about a lot on the various threads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Duh ! Thanks, I should have done a search.


----------



## hifi808

youth said:


> So what powerplugs are you guys gonna buy for the Liquid Carbon? Thinking about getting one of these: http://www.jenving.com/products/eu-49


 
  

 I'm going to build a Bob Crump style cord (Belden 19364), but will be using Marinco connectors instead of the Pass & Seymour/Schurter that Bob recommended. It'll be dressed up in some black Techflex and shrink tubing that I have lying around.
  
 Old school.


----------



## pippen99

Just received the email to confirm shipping address.  My order #462 to ship the week of 11/9.  It's almost here!


----------



## ejong7

Got that as well. BRING ON THE CARBON.


----------



## digitalzed

Just received a notification from Terry at Cavalli asking me to confirm my address. Looks like my amp is due to ship the week of November 9th. I'm officially excited now! My order # is 432 if anyone's wondering.


----------



## Mr Rick

digitalzed said:


> Just received a notification from Terry at Cavalli asking me to confirm my address. Looks like my amp is due to ship the week of November 9th. I'm officially excited now! My order # is 432 if anyone's wondering.


 
 I also just got a notification.


----------



## Serenitty

#486, also 11/9, though I asked them to delay since I'll be out of town that week. So maybe someone else will get my 11/9 slot...


----------



## musiclvr

pippen99 said:


> Just received the email to confirm shipping address.  My order #462 to ship the week of 11/9.  It's almost here!



Me too!!! I'm so excited! My order is #503 and is to ship during the same week.


----------



## Cardiiiii

That's awesome news. From the looks of it, they will be looking to ship around 100-125 orders per week. I'm #959, so maybe I'm looking at the last week of November. Exciting times!


----------



## drgajet

Me too. Great news. Thank Alex.

Jim


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Hmmm... I'm no. 721 so hopefully I'm shipping the week of the 16th.


----------



## maxedfx

My order is #1105! God knows when I will get it! But, damn! Can't wait!


----------



## drgajet

maxedfx said:


> My order is #1105! God knows when I will get it! But, damn! Can't wait!




Should have ordered sooner, now you wait, haha.


----------



## reddog

I got a notification too 471.


----------



## morinu

oh no! I am #1025 and I am going out of the country for 2 months the first week of December 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... I guess I will have to wait 2 extra months to hear it... ouch!


----------



## aqsw

#510 week of Nov.9. Looks like I will be getting my LC and my Feliks Elise the same week.


----------



## defbear

I just received my notice of shipment the week of Nov 9th. Going to pair it up with an Emotiva Dac 1 and try it out with everything else. Going to be fun to try it with my ifi idsd.


----------



## buke9

#682 Hope it will be before Thanksgiving. When I get the Ether-C's.


----------



## doctorjazz

pippen99 said:


> Just received the email to confirm shipping address.  My order #462 to ship the week of 11/9.  It's almost here!




Same here!


----------



## logscool

I'm # 457


----------



## mscott58

#595 and I just got the 11/9 notice as well. Woo-hoo!


----------



## tuxbass

maxedfx said:


> My order is #1105! God knows when I will get it! But, damn! Can't wait!


 
 Don't worry I'll be right there with you for moral support 
 Just a few orders ahead of you ... I still need to figure out my DAC situation anyway.


----------



## maxedfx

tuxbass said:


> Don't worry I'll be right there with you for moral support
> Just a few orders ahead of you ... I still need to figure out my DAC situation anyway.



Thanks mate! I'm in the same situation. But have a mojo on the way for now!


----------



## drgajet

Ether C on my head now. Chord MoJo coming from Moon Audio soon. Liquid Carbon 11/9. We will see how it all works soon. NAD 1050 as backup.

Jim


----------



## aamefford

699 for me, and no word yet.  S'ok, looks like pretty soon.


----------



## tuxbass

maxedfx said:


> Thanks mate! I'm in the same situation. But have a mojo on the way for now!


 
 Cool, I would love to know how that pairing sounds. But might be too late 
 If any of you getting the LC sooner plan on using Mojo as the DAC, please post your impressions.


----------



## x RELIC x

Ah, you guys are killing me with your notifications! No word yet for me.  

Good to know they're getting through the cue!


----------



## Audio Addict

x relic x said:


> Ah, you guys are killing me with your notifications! No word yet for me.
> 
> Good to know they're getting through the cue!




Agreed with a 528 number, I must be into December


----------



## sahmen

#941 and no word yet...  I'm not crying... I can wait.


----------



## x RELIC x

Just excited to pair it with the gear I have in currently, or coming in the near future.


----------



## pippen99

audio addict said:


> Agreed with a 528 number, I must be into December


 
 First number was in the neighborhood of 396.  Just a guess,  but 528 could be first week or likely second week.


----------



## zachawry

I'm kicking myself for ordering on first night, cancelling, then ordering again a few weeks ago...


----------



## mscott58

audio addict said:


> Agreed with a 528 number, I must be into December


 
 Dude, I'm 595 and got a notice already...
  
 Cheers


----------



## bearFNF

mscott58 said:


> Dude, I'm 595 and got a notice already...
> 
> Cheers


 

 Is it a notice of estimated shipping or an address verification you guys are getting or both?


----------



## mscott58

bearfnf said:


> Is it a notice of estimated shipping or an address verification you guys are getting or both?




Both Bob. 

Here's most of what mine said:

"Order Number: 595
The Liquid Carbon amp that you ordered is currently scheduled to ship the week of November 9, 2015. Because it has been a while since you placed your pre-order, we wanted to confirm the address where you would like the amp shipped. Please take a moment to carefully review the below information and reply to this email either confirming or noting any changes that need to be made."

Cheers


----------



## DatGuy

Week of Nov 9th. Order 600 for Mr. 600


----------



## maxedfx

Lucky bastards!!


----------



## Emerpus

Order #597 ... scheduled to ship the week of November 9, 2015


----------



## DatGuy

I wanna take this time to thank @runeight again for being so transparent and open about this whole process. We're all just grateful for your gift back to our community. It's been a long 7 months but he's always taken the time and effort to listen to our feedback and update us throughout the development cycle. 
  
 Hopefully the portable and the unicorn dac will go much smoother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In the meantime, I've been camping the dac thread for 7 months and still haven't made my decision. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Multifrost or Mojo, gumby or dac-19), so many decisions so little time


----------



## zaintachik

591 here


----------



## Audio Addict

mscott58 said:


> Dude, I'm 595 and got a notice already...
> 
> Cheers




Thanks for the heads up. I sent Cavalli Audio an email asking for shipping info.


----------



## Pirakaphile

#403 here, got the same email and confirmed my address. Got my hopes up, but it's still just a bit away, so I'll hold on for now. I've never heard the Carbon, or any other amp other than my Magni so I've no idea what to expect. Going to enjoy some music in the meantime!


----------



## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I sent Cavalli Audio an email asking for shipping info.




Contacted them and found out I am in the week of the 9th as well.


----------



## mscott58

audio addict said:


> Contacted them and found out I am in the week of the 9th as well.




Congrats!


----------



## doctorjazz

#599, same shipping.


----------



## buke9

#682 so I guess a month to go.


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems they're planning on shipping many at once.


----------



## XenHeadFi

Seems like the first batch is around 200-250 units (46X to 6XX). Not sure how long the second batch will take before shipping, a week or 2?


----------



## kingdixon

I don't see any small order number, mine is 

#1000001046

does that mean my number is 1046 ? Because if that 1 counts, then it is like infinity ;D

anyway, its good to hear the first batch is coming out ! lucky bastards


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Contacted Cavalli and apparently I should be in week 2 (Nov 16). I'm no. 721 if that helps. Seems the cut off for week one is about no. 600 or so.


----------



## buke9

kingdixon said:


> I don't see any small order number, mine is
> 
> #1000001046
> 
> ...


 
 I believe your number is 1046 I am 682. As there are only 500 it must be mixed in with other Cavalli orders. I am not in the first batch but hope to be in the second.


----------



## mscott58

buke9 said:


> I believe your number is 1046 I am 682. As there are only 500 it must be mixed in with other Cavalli orders. I am not in the first batch but hope to be in the second.


 

Yep, it's all Cavalli orders. Cheers


----------



## scanspeakman1

Damn....my order number is also 1000+. I'll be lucky if I get it this year! Be hey...my fault. Should have ordered sooner.
  
 Does anyone know what the final version looks like? The prototypes have this pretty cheap looking ribbed volume knob where on one of the pictures of the proto front panel on this page http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available the volume knob seems to be nice and smooth. Looks way better and more in line with other cavalli product. 

 ​Scanspeakman


----------



## runeight

Hey gents. Some clarifications because I know everyone is anxious to get their amps and I am equally anxious to get them shipping.
  
 The first batch will be about 150 units. We are planning the rest in batches of 100.
  
 We will do our dead level best to get them all out before Christmas holidays.


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> Hey gents. Some clarifications because I know everyone is anxious to get their amps and I am equally anxious to get them shipping.
> 
> The first batch will be about 150 units. We are planning the rest in batches of 100.
> 
> We will do our dead level best to get them all out before Christmas holidays.


 
 Thanks Alex! Cheers my friend


----------



## maxedfx

runeight said:


> Hey gents. Some clarifications because I know everyone is anxious to get their amps and I am equally anxious to get them shipping.
> 
> The first batch will be about 150 units. We are planning the rest in batches of 100.
> 
> We will do our dead level best to get them all out before Christmas holidays.



Thanks for the info Alex!

By this count I'm on 1105, the orders started around 500, so
• 1st batch till 650 on Nov 9
• 2nd batch till 750
• 3rd batch till 850
• 4th batch till 950 Nov - dec
• 5th batch till 1050
• 6th batch till 1150 2nd week Dec
 almost a month and a half to go for my order!


----------



## rmullins08

maxedfx said:


> Thanks for the info Alex!
> 
> By this count I'm on 1105, the orders started around 500, so
> • 1st batch till 650 on Nov 9
> ...


 
 Those figures also assuming no purchases of any other products during the time period, so might move up (slightly however)


----------



## bearFNF

The first order was also about #397, so you are way off.

Just relax and stop over analyzing it,


----------



## maxedfx

bearfnf said:


> The first order was also about #397, so you are way off.
> 
> Just relax and stop over analyzing it,



Hahahaaa!!
If it is as you say, then it's adding another week to my timeline! Dammit!!


----------



## kingdixon

bearfnf said:


> The first order was also about #397, so you are way off.
> 
> Just relax and stop over analyzing it,




i have read that some orders up to 600 has already got the notification of shipping at 9th,

If the first batch is 150 unit and the first order #397, then i guess there are lots of other non carbon related orders in between !

Cheers ;D

turn out i was lying a bit LOL


----------



## maxedfx

kingdixon said:


> i have read that some orders between 650 and 700 has already got the notification of shipping at 9th,
> 
> If the first batch is 150 unit and the first order #397, then i guess there are lots of other non carbon related orders in between !
> 
> Cheers ;D



Maybe, but there were a a few cancellations too..


----------



## Evshrug

scanspeakman1 said:


> Damn....my order number is also 1000+. I'll be lucky if I get it this year! Be hey...my fault. Should have ordered sooner.
> 
> Does anyone know what the final version looks like? The prototypes have this pretty cheap looking ribbed volume knob where on one of the pictures of the proto front panel on this page http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available the volume knob seems to be nice and smooth. Looks way better and more in line with other cavalli product.
> 
> ​Scanspeakman




Hi!
The hand-made prototype had the volume knob like you described, but the production model has a new potentiometer and knob which is a big improvement.


All,
Order #463 here, what I can say is I ordered the moment the LC page was live and then I was able to load said page... So I'm impressed how fast those first orders went! After that initial rush, I bet there were a lot of orders among Cavalli's other products (therefore raising the number) and cancellations/reorders. Also, someone who bought 2 amps would still be one order, so basically it's too vague to guess how many LC's were sold.


----------



## Damnegy

Order 631 and did not receive that email


----------



## scanspeakman1

evshrug said:


> Hi!
> The hand-made prototype had the volume knob like you described, but the production model has a new potentiometer and knob which is a big improvement.


 
  
 That sounds great! Cant wait to see (and hear!) the final product with my Ether.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## gto88

Long wait is ending for many of you, mine is 963. Still some time to go. I guess that there are orders cancelled, so some numbers can be skipped. Hopefully it will be up sooner.


----------



## Evshrug

scanspeakman1 said:


> That sounds great! Cant wait to see (and hear!) the final product with my Ether.
> 
> Scanspeakman



At RMAF, Alex let me sit by an LC and back-to-back test/enjoy a modded HD800, LCD 3, HiFiman HE1000, Ether, and Ether C. They all sounded excellent and I could see why someone would love each of them... but the LC + Ether was my 2nd favorite! Super awesome, and I want to own that very detailed/balanced setup one day! My top favorite was the HE1000, but it was pretty close in most areas (touch more satisfying bass impact, I loved the pads), and if I was spending money I would just get the Ether and call it endgame, and be happy


----------



## Hoztel

evshrug said:


> Hi!
> The hand-made prototype had the volume knob like you described, but the production model has a new potentiometer and knob which is a big improvement.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 yeah i swear i remember ordering mine only the second day the page was live and I'm 671 jeez thats a lot of orders in 2 days haha


----------



## Serenitty

hoztel said:


> yeah i swear i remember ordering mine only the second day the page was live and I'm 671 jeez thats a lot of orders in 2 days haha


 

 I was 10 minutes after "live", and I'm 486...  And that 10 minutes after was the first time I could get the site to stay stable enough to order.  That was the first DDOS event I've ever been a part of...


----------



## DecentLevi

Good Lord, how many times do we have to go over this? The order numbers are for all Cavalli products, not just for the Liquid Carbon. So any order greater-less than 500 doesn't mean anything. I wish more people would do some back research in previous pages of the thread before posting!


----------



## potkettleblack

decentlevi said:


> Good Lord, how many times do we have to go over this? The order numbers are for all Cavalli products, not just for the Liquid Carbon. So any order greater-less than 500 doesn't mean anything. I wish more people would do some back research in previous pages of the thread before posting!


So true. How dare they save time by asking a question that can be answered by looking through 237 pages.


----------



## DecentLevi

On the contrary, there's a search button at the top of all threads that allows you to easily search through the history for posts containing any specific keywords. It's just that certain questions, namely about power cables, DACs, balanced vs. SE config. and order numbers for this amp have already been answered at least 3x each here, and it's really a drag on everyone who's been here for a while to have to hear these same questions asked over and over again. And I'm definitely not alone on this.


----------



## Stillhart

I don't actually see a question here.  People are just discussing their order numbers.  Why would someone search if they don't have a specific question?


----------



## Barry S

decentlevi said:


> Good Lord, how many times do we have to go over this? The order numbers are for all Cavalli products, not just for the Liquid Carbon. So any order greater-less than 500 doesn't mean anything. I wish more people would do some back research in previous pages of the thread before posting!


 

 I'd bet that the the Liquid Carbons represent 90-95% of orders. The other amps are mostly in the $3000-$4000 range and Cavalli is a boutique brand--the batches are small.


----------



## Stillhart

You also have to account for cancellations.  Many people have mentioned cancelling and reordering (or just plain cancelling).  Their loss!  
  
 Man, I'm so excited for everyone else to finally start getting these!


----------



## potkettleblack

decentlevi said:


> On the contrary, there's a search button at the top of all threads that allows you to easily search through the history for posts containing any specific keywords. It's just that certain questions, namely about power cables, DACs, balanced vs. SE config. and order numbers for this amp have already been answered at least 3x each here, and it's really a drag on everyone who's been here for a while to have to hear these same questions asked over and over again. And I'm definitely not alone on this.


It's a good job you answered him then. Much quicker.


----------



## drgajet

Hey, my order number is 471. Does anyone know when it will ship, what dac goes best, and whether I should use balanced or single ended.

























Ooops, just kidding.


----------



## Mr Rick

I can't wait for the first post from some unsuspecting person who receives his/her LC only to realize it does not come with a power cord 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## thomascrown

mr rick said:


> I can't wait for the first post from some unsuspecting person who receives his/her LC only to realize it does not come with a power cord
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Whaaaat?


----------



## drgajet

No power cord! What! hehe


----------



## Youth

mr rick said:


> I can't wait for the first post from some unsuspecting person who receives his/her LC only to realize it does not come with a power cord
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ahh, now you ruined it!!


----------



## Mr Rick

youth said:


> Ahh, now you ruined it!!


 
  
 I doubt it. There's always one.


----------



## mscott58

"Sorry boss, I couldn't get my work done today."

"Why the hell not!?!"

"My computer wasn't working."

"So it's broken?"

"Nope, there's no power cord." 

"Well where's the power cord?"

"Um, I had to take it for my new headphone amp."

"You stupid piece of...wait, was it a Cavalli Liquid Carbon?"

"Why yes, actually it was."

"You get a raise my boy! Great amp!"


----------



## ejong7

mscott58 said:


> "Sorry boss, I couldn't get my work done today."
> 
> "Why the hell not!?!"
> 
> ...


 

 Are you hiring? I WANT THIS JOB.


----------



## Beolab

mscott58 said:


> "Sorry boss, I couldn't get my work done today."
> 
> "Why the hell not!?!"
> 
> ...




I heard another guy who worked at the Hospital on the X-Ray department, where he lend the 
extra heavy duty power cable from the X-Ray scanner for his Liquid Carbon haha


----------



## BRCMRGN

I am really excited about getting the LC so I can finally use the Pangea power cord that I bought five months ago. I don't really expect it to sound any better than a generic PC cord, but it is really pretty.  Even the box is nice.  It's so stiff that I won't be able to use it in transportable mode - it would take 3X the space of the amp, but it really is pretty.


----------



## drgajet

Oh man, this doesn't come with a power cord (sorry, just trolling).


----------



## Zojokkeli

Speaking of power cables, what would be a decent cheapo one?


----------



## goldendarko

zojokkeli said:


> Speaking of power cables, what would be a decent cheapo one?


 
 Monoprice are good, cost less than $10 a cable and I can hear no difference between it and my Shunyata cable that was significantly more expensive


----------



## mscott58

FYI - Someone's selling a Liquid Au on eBay for $2850 or best offer. Seems like it could be a good deal. 

Cheers


----------



## zachawry

goldendarko said:


> Monoprice are good, cost less than $10 a cable and I can hear no difference between it and my Shunyata cable that was significantly more expensive


 

 How could something with a name as banal, mudnane and quotidian as "Monoprice" sound as good as something called "*Shunyata*," which means "emptiness, voidness, openness, spaciousness" in Sanskrit?!
  
Surely you jest.


----------



## Evshrug

^You're gonna need a pry-bar to separate your tongue from your cheek there 

Side note: this actually reminds me, I should order a power cable to have it in-time.


----------



## scanspeakman1

evshrug said:


> ^You're gonna need a pry-bar to separate your tongue from your cheek there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Or make you yourself; order some belden 19364 cable and some nice connectors (Marinco, Schurter, Wattgate) , put in some spare time (30 minutes) and you have nice shielded power cable for approx. $ 40,- .
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## Youth

I'm gonna get this one: http://www.jenving.com/products/view/lorad-2.5-cs-16-eu-3004100362


----------



## Stillhart

scanspeakman1 said:


> Or make you yourself; order some belden 19364 cable and some nice connectors (Marinco, Schurter, Wattgate) , put in some spare time (30 minutes) and you have nice shielded power cable for approx. $ 40,- .
> 
> Scanspeakman


 
  
 Or get a Monoprice one for $3 that sounds exactly the same.  Wait, why do I feel like I've read this conversation before...


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> scanspeakman1 said:
> 
> 
> > Or make you yourself; order some belden 19364 cable and some nice connectors (Marinco, Schurter, Wattgate) , put in some spare time (30 minutes) and you have nice shielded power cable for approx. $ 40,- .
> ...






Wait the liquid carbon doesnt come with a power cable? !?!




:rolleyes:


----------



## tuxbass

Wireless Amp baby !!


----------



## Stillhart

No no, that's the Liquid Redacted...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> No no, that's the Liquid Redacted...


 
  
 No, Liquid Redacted is the fake DAC.....


----------



## AxelCloris

buttuglyjeff said:


> No, Liquid Redacted is the fake DAC.....


 
  
 Nah, that's the Solid Redacted.


----------



## mscott58

axelcloris said:


> Nah, that's the Solid Redacted.


 
 Nope, it's the Liquid Solid Redacted Protracted De-dac-ted Magic DAC!!!


----------



## drgajet

This is getting complicated.


----------



## buke9

+1 Say that three times real fast : )


----------



## Stillhart

Hey guys, I heard there's a new transportable Cavalli amp coming out that's fully balanced and it's going to be like $600!  Quick, someone start a thread about it!


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> Hey guys, I heard there's a new transportable Cavalli amp coming out that's fully balanced and it's going to be like $600!  Quick, someone start a thread about it!




But we can't name the thread yet! :wink_face:


----------



## bearFNF

What's that about it not coming with a power cord???
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  




 LOL


----------



## tuxbass

Mr. Alex if you are watching, look what you've done to us


----------



## runeight

Yes, I am watching. Just wait until you're 65.


----------



## aamefford

I'm 56…


----------



## defbear

Two more weeks! OK the only reason I say that is, I've finally gotten bored waiting. Oh and yeah. No power cord. So they don't have to stock for different country's. The voltage conversion is taken care of internally. I bet we have all gotten rid of several computers along the way, but we all keep the power cord. Use one of those.


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> Two more weeks! OK the only reason I say that is, I've finally gotten bored waiting. Oh and yeah. No power cord. So they don't have to stock for different country's. The voltage conversion is taken care of internally.* I bet we have all gotten rid of several computers along the way, but we all keep the power cord. Use one of those*.




Yup!

Haha, which one would sound better?


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> Yup!
> 
> Haha, which one would sound better?


The black one


----------



## DigitalFreak

For a power cable to be considered audiophile grade it has to be red, blue, green, or a combination of the colours mentioned. Black is so out of style retro 1965 audiophile nowadays. The retro thing went out of fashion back in 1992 when the first 1000 dollar 6 inch long blue sleeved RCA interconnect was released onto the market. This is head-fi people. Keeping up with the Jonses is a requirement for keeping your Joe Audiophile badge.


----------



## x RELIC x

digitalfreak said:


> For a power cable to be considered audiophile grade it has to be red, blue, green, or a combination of the colours mentioned. Black is so out of style retro 1965 audiophile nowadays. The retro thing went out of fashion back in 1992 when the first 1000 dollar 6 inch long blue sleeved RCA interconnect was released onto the market. This is head-fi people. Keeping up with the Jonses is a requirement for keeping your Joe Audiophile badge.




Hahahaha! But the black ones most of us have are free!! How un-audiophile to use free components....

....... I feel so ashamed!


----------



## Stillhart

Pretty sure free power cords are the equivalent of free earbuds.


----------



## Youth

Heard the Liquid Glass today... speechless. If the carbon sounds anything like it I'm happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All I can say is that I'm only gonna be interested in amplifiers from Cavalli Audio from now on.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Carbon is supposed to sound like a baby Liquid Gold or something.


----------



## Youth

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Carbon is supposed to sound like a baby Liquid Gold or something.


 
  
 Well if Liquid Gold is in the same league as Glass then I'm very happy. Can't wait to get it.


----------



## Punch Leez

Anybody know what is the switching frequency of the powersupply inside LC?


----------



## mscott58

youth said:


> Heard the Liquid Glass today... speechless. If the carbon sounds anything like it I'm happy   All I can say is that I'm only gonna be interested in amplifiers from Cavalli Audio from now on.




Having heard them all the LC definitely has the same Cavalli "sound". So does the upcoming Liquid Silicon. Cheers


----------



## audiofrk

youth said:


> Well if Liquid Gold is in the same league as Glass then I'm very happy. Can't wait to get it.


 

 They sound different but they share the similarities of the cavalli housesound.  I think the glass is more clearer.


----------



## buke9

youth said:


> Well if Liquid Gold is in the same league as Glass then I'm very happy. Can't wait to get it.


 
 I've only heard the Glass and Crimson and the LC is the same sound signature but I would love to have the Glass but my wife would shoot me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Just leave the Glass to me in your will and it'll all work out


----------



## reddog

youth said:


> Well if Liquid Gold is in the same league as Glass then I'm very happy. Can't wait to get it.



+1 Well said, if the Liquid Glass sounds fantastic, and if a Liquid Glass is considered to be in the same league as a LG, then I am very happy to have gotten the last Liquid Glass. And if the Liquid Carbon is considered a mini Liquid Gold, then I am very happy too. Although such use of my wallet might make me become a teacher or tutor again. Spontaneous purchasing is not a good healthy habit in this fantastic hobby.


----------



## Stillhart

reddog said:


> +1 Well said, if the Liquid Glass sounds fantastic, and if a Liquid Glass is considered to be in the same league as a LG, then I am very happy to have gotten the last Liquid Glass. And if the Liquid Carbon is considered a mini Liquid Gold, then I am very happy too. Although such use of my wallet might make me become a teacher or tutor again. Spontaneous purchasing is not a good healthy habit in this fantastic hobby.


 
  
 Well you've picked some great gear to spontaneously buy.  I can't imagine what you'd need to get next.
  
 Oh wait... Liquid Portable!  You take your gear out all the time and having a mini, battery powered Liquid Carbon is going to be perfect!


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> Well you've picked some great gear to spontaneously buy.  I can't imagine what you'd need to get next.
> 
> Oh wait... Liquid Portable!  You take your gear out all the time and having a mini, battery powered Liquid Carbon is going to be perfect!
> 
> :evil:



Sh sh just got my wallet to come into the house again, must not spook it just yet lol.


----------



## Stillhart

reddog said:


> Sh sh just got my wallet to come into the house again, must not spook it just yet lol.


 
  
 Regarding your question in the rep, you'd be surprised what that thing can power.  At RMAF, it was driving:  HE-1000, HD800, Ether, Ether C, LCD-X, LCD-3, etc.  It really does sound like a desktop amp; it's kind of astonishing.  Several folks here can corroborate.
  
 And if I'm not mistaken, Warren actually used it to drive an Abyss!  lol


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> Regarding your question in the rep, you'd be surprised what that thing can power.  At RMAF, it was driving:  HE-1000, HD800, Ether, Ether C, LCD-X, LCD-3, etc.  It really does sound like a desktop amp; it's kind of astonishing.  Several folks here can corroborate.
> 
> And if I'm not mistaken, Warren actually used it to drive an Abyss!  lol




Agree with Dan. Listened to the LC with all of those cans (except the Abyss) and it drove them all very well. Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> Agree with Dan. Listened to the LC with all of those cans (except the Abyss) and it drove them all very well. Cheers


 
  
 My apologies, I was referring to the new Portable.


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> My apologies, I was referring to the new Portable.


 
 Actually I did the same thing with the Liquid Silicon (or whatever it's final name will be). I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the LC and LS in a blind test - they're both great. The design and feel of the LS is rock solid, literally. Alex knows how to make some cool gear.


----------



## Youth

reddog said:


> +1 Well said, if the Liquid Glass sounds fantastic, and if a Liquid Glass is considered to be in the same league as a LG, then I am very happy to have gotten the last Liquid Glass. And if the Liquid Carbon is considered a mini Liquid Gold, then I am very happy too. Although such use of my wallet might make me become a teacher or tutor again. Spontaneous purchasing is not a good healthy habit in this fantastic hobby.


 
  
 As long as you're buying Cavalli gear it's a good habbit! Seriously though, you've got some amazing stuff. I'd live to listen to the Ether, Ether C and HE-1000 on the Liquid Glass/Crimson... or any Cavalli amplifier lol.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

reddog said:


> Sh sh just got my wallet to come into the house again, must not spook it just yet lol.


 
  
 Or you could win one in the naming contest.  And yes, your wallet is much safer tossed out in the street.....
  
 And if I was Alex, I'd probably rig the win to you.  You seem to already be a large percentage of his recent sales.


----------



## doctorjazz

The naming contest is for the portable amp, no? I'm going to submit, "Liquid Poverty"...


----------



## Marshal Banana

I just ordered a Liquid Carbon, do you know approximately the waiting time?


----------



## Youth

marshal banana said:


> I just ordered a Liquid Carbon, do you know approximately the waiting time?


 
  
 All should be shipped before Christmas but it's not certain yet.


----------



## Marshal Banana

Thanks, can't wait!


----------



## drgajet

doctorjazz said:


> The naming contest is for the portable amp, no? I'm going to submit, "Liquid Poverty"...




Fitting, but I don't think it will win.

Jim


----------



## doctorjazz

drgajet said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > The naming contest is for the portable amp, no? I'm going to submit, "Liquid Poverty"...
> ...




Long shot, but hey, I'm a Jets fan


----------



## scanspeakman1

Putting my money on "Liquid Helium". The lightest and smallest of the noble gasses, totally colorless and the second lightest of all elements. Seems fitting for the new portable Cavalli. Hydrogen didn't seem like a good idea since it is highly volatile. 
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## buke9

scanspeakman1 said:


> Putting my money on "Liquid Helium". The lightest and smallest of the noble gasses, totally colorless and the second lightest of all elements. Seems fitting for the new portable Cavalli. Hydrogen didn't seem like a good idea since it is highly volatile.
> 
> Scanspeakman


 
 There was a Liquid Fire. So Hydrogen could work.


----------



## mscott58

buke9 said:


> There was a Liquid Fire. So Hydrogen could work.


 
 How about Liquid Lithium? 
  
 It would be fitting both for the battery implementation as well the fact that most of us with audio-nervosa/upgraditis could likely use a little lithium-like medication...
  
 Cheers


----------



## buke9

mscott58 said:


> How about Liquid Lithium?
> 
> It would be fitting both for the battery implementation as well the fact that most of us with audio-nervosa/upgraditis could likely use a little lithium-like medication...
> 
> Cheers


 
 I like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## buke9

Was hoping to get a new batch of emails confirming address's for next ship date. I guess it will be delayed as well. Just was hoping.


----------



## slambanna

buke9 said:


> Was hoping to get a new batch of emails confirming address's for next ship date. I guess it will be delayed as well. Just was hoping.


 
 Pure speculation here.... I would guess the second batch will get the shipping address confirmation emails around the time the first batch starts shipping, or at least they have a bunch of successful burn-in tests confirmed.
 Last I heard they were still on schedule to start shipping next Monday.  Alex said the confirmation emails will be sent 10-14 days before expected shipping for each batch.


----------



## buke9

slambanna said:


> Pure speculation here.... I would guess the second batch will get the shipping address confirmation emails around the time the first batch starts shipping, or at least they have a bunch of successful burn-in tests confirmed.
> Last I heard they were still on schedule to start shipping next Monday.  Alex said the confirmation emails will be sent 10-14 days before expected shipping for each batch.


 
 I guess we'll have to wait to see if the first ones ship next week.


----------



## jarnopp

scanspeakman1 said:


> Putting my money on "Liquid Helium". The lightest and smallest of the noble gasses, totally colorless and the second lightest of all elements. Seems fitting for the new portable Cavalli. Hydrogen didn't seem like a good idea since it is highly volatile.
> 
> Scanspeakman




Liquid Light (or Liquid Lite)?


----------



## Cardiiiii

I went with Liquid Atom.


----------



## nicolo

Liquid Nanite for me


----------



## doctorjazz

Liquid INSANITYYYYYYYYYYY1111111


----------



## gto88

Why it has to be liquid something?


----------



## doctorjazz

It doesn't (the Facebook page even suggests an original, non "liquid" name), think it is just force of habit (and makes for good routines...)


----------



## Stillhart

More important, why are people naming names in this thread when there's a contest to pick the name?


----------



## NinjaHamster

It doesn't HAVE to be - you could enter the "Cavalli Audio ******" as a name ... But I don't like your chances of winning. 

Why don't you have a look at the existing names for Cavalli amps and try to stick within that convention?


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> More important, why are people naming names in this thread when there's a contest to pick the name?




AGREE! This is the Liquid Carbon thread, not the portable naming contest thread. 

Can we please get back to the Carbon instead of the guessing game.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> AGREE! This is the Liquid Carbon thread, not the portable naming contest thread.
> 
> Can we please get back to the Carbon instead of the guessing game.


 
 Oh, dad, but it's fun...


----------



## doctorjazz

Well, since we don't have an LC yet, the other type of post here is, "gee, can't wait until I get it", or, "when will I get my LC?" At least the name posts are amusing.


----------



## aamefford

x relic x said:


> AGREE! This is the Liquid Carbon thread, not the portable naming contest thread.
> 
> Can we please get back to the Carbon instead of the guessing game.


 
  


mscott58 said:


> Oh, dad, but it's fun...


 
 I promise to stop when I need glasses.....


----------



## buke9

doctorjazz said:


> Well, since we don't have an LC yet, the other type of post here is, "gee, can't wait until I get it", or, "when will I get my LC?" At least the name posts are amusing.


 
 Totally agree. Lighten up folks


----------



## sahmen

doctorjazz said:


> Well, since we don't have an LC yet, the other type of post here is, "gee, can't wait until I get it", or, "when will I get my LC?" At least the name posts are amusing.


 
 Yes, or we can try out some "bridge" posts, such as, "after receiving my LC, I shall stop drooling over the upcoming pocket-sized Liquid Lava, or is it "Liquid Volcano"?


----------



## stjj89

Soooo......about these LCs shipping...how's that coming along?


----------



## doctorjazz

Or, drooling even more over the Liquid Fire and other Liquid Kilobucks.


----------



## AxelCloris

stjj89 said:


> Soooo......about these LCs shipping...how's that coming along?


 

 Starts next week, woop woop!


----------



## buke9

axelcloris said:


> Starts next week, woop woop!


 
 Time will tell. I hope it does. It has been a long 7 months. The first time I heard it I wanted it the second time I couldn't wait to get it ; )


----------



## doctorjazz

See?


----------



## Stillhart

Can we talk about the Liquid Crimson in here?  Mine was supposed to arrive on Thursday but Fedex just moved it up to Wed.  Oooooohh!!!!
  
 Too bad it's Fedex so it'll be a day late and back to Thursday.  Awwww....  
  
 It's like a soap opera up in here!


----------



## x RELIC x

Apologies for coming off as 'thread police'. Just that when the Carbon comes in it makes it that much more difficult to get past completely unrelated posts. Not that the current 243 pages make it any easier.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Apologies for coming off as 'thread police'. Just that when the Carbon comes in it makes it that much more difficult to get past completely unrelated posts. Not that the current 243 pages make it any easier.


 
 Unrelated posts on Head-Fi? The horror...
  
 Need something like what Moedawg does on the QP1R thread, putting everything of value on the first page of the thread. 
  
 Mython on the Chord Mojo page has also done an awesome job of linking all the relevant posts on the first page of the thread so you can cut through the clutter. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## zaintachik

Yeeeeehaaaaa. How long is the shipping to Asia? I hope i get before December


----------



## Cardiiiii

Managed to snap up a nearly new Heimdall 2 for my LCD-2, pretty chuffed. And that's the last piece of the puzzle. Now all I have to do is wait for the LC to arrive. As of now this will be my final set up:

2011 iMac with Amarra SQ2+
Schiit Wyred & basic Wireworld USB cables
Chord Hugo & Nordost Leif RCA cable
Liquid Carbon & Morrow Audio MAP1 power cable
Audeze LCD-2 with Nordost Heimdall 2


----------



## scootermafia

I was lucky enough to get a sneak preview of the Carbon, and I'll just say this...definitely will be worth the wait.  I'm hanging in there, can't wait for the final release!


----------



## swspiers

Or, we can combine the 2 threads.  I vote for the "Carbon Dating"


----------



## micropixel

Just ordered! Recently acquired the Chord Mojo which unfortunately is slightly under powered for my LCD 2 fazor so hope this baby will be able to bridge the power gap!

Aside from all the glowing reviews, what made me pulled the trigger is their philosophy "we carefully blend the musical signature of vacuum tubes with the precision of solid state". I haven't listen to any Cavalli before, so I hope to hear some of those full and tubey sound. Is that what their sound signature is?


----------



## DecentLevi

Here are a couple random moments of humor from earlier in the thread that I ran across:
  


vhsownsbeta said:


> Biggie was right...


 


dvass13 said:


> Not to be a pain, but what exactly are the units on the Money scale? Dollars? Cents? This could be useful for estimating the number of problems I should be having.
> 
> Also, does this suggest that if I spend all my money on audio gear (such that my money goes to zero) that all my problems will go away?


 
  
  
 Quote:


runeight said:


> Gents, as an aside, I just never know where the Liquid Gold is going to show up. This time, somewhere in Rocky Mountain National Park.


----------



## DecentLevi

^^ Yeah I would pretty much say the LC sounds like the best of both worlds, although I can't speak for all Cavalli amps. When I first tried it, the words that came to my mind was that it has the energy of a tube amp, but the detail of a solid state.
  
 So guys, I thought I would make a last minute post in case anyone in the area would still like to come: I'm co-organizing a local meet-up in downtown San Francisco tomorrow Saturday, if anyone would still like to come at the last minute - we still have space and there will be an LC demo unit, as well as a Yggy, Zana Deux and other unreleased secret prototypes, etc.!
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957/


----------



## doctorjazz

decentlevi said:


> ^^ Yeah I would pretty much say the LC sounds like the best of both worlds, although I can't speak for all Cavalli amps. When I first tried it, the words that came to my mind was that it has the energy of a tube amp, but the detail of a solid state.
> 
> So guys, I thought I would make a last minute post in case anyone in the area would still like to come: I'm co-organizing a local meet-up in downtown San Francisco tomorrow Saturday, if anyone would still like to come at the last minute - we still have space and there will be an LC demo unit, as well as a Yggy, Zana Deux and other unreleased secret prototypes, etc.!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/778957/




Now, if you were closer to New Jersey...
But then again, should be getting the first batch in not too long...


----------



## buke9

Seems like if they were going to ship Monday we would have an update that the first ones are done and ready to ship. I would like to see a finished production unit. I know I'm going to get hate for this.


----------



## doctorjazz

True, haven't heard anything yet since that initial email.


----------



## grrorr76

micropixel said:


> Just ordered! Recently acquired the Chord Mojo which unfortunately is slightly under powered for my LCD 2 fazor so hope this baby will be able to bridge the power gap!
> 
> Aside from all the glowing reviews, what made me pulled the trigger is their philosophy "we carefully blend the musical signature of vacuum tubes with the precision of solid state". I haven't listen to any Cavalli before, so I hope to hear some of those full and tubey sound. Is that what their sound signature is?


 

 I have a mojo on the way and am looking at a cavelli liquid carbon to go with it. I will be interested to hear your thoughts.


----------



## cloudkicker

grrorr76 said:


> I have a mojo on the way and am looking at a cavelli liquid carbon to go with it. I will be interested to hear your thoughts.


 
 +1 on this combination. I got the Mojo earlier this week. I have to say on its own, for what I have, the Mojo works very well with the headsets I've been using. I expect the LC to be complementary to the Mojo and can only imagine what it can add to the Mojo sound.


----------



## mscott58

cloudkicker said:


> +1 on this combination. I got the Mojo earlier this week. I have to say on its own, for what I have, the Mojo works very well with the headsets I've been using. I expect the LC to be complementary to the Mojo and can only imagine what it can add to the Mojo sound.


 
 Yep. I've got the LC on the way as well. Already was able to boost the sound of the Mojo using the ALO CDM for amp duties - just added the right amount of that nice tube-based warmth. Very curious to see how the CDM does versus the LC. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## zachawry

buke9 said:


> Seems like if they were going to ship Monday we would have an update that the first ones are done and ready to ship. I would like to see a finished production unit. I know I'm going to get hate for this.




I agree. I don't begrudge Alex production delays, but a photo or 2 or 5 of production units seems like a pretty easy way for them to show appreciation for patient waiting.


----------



## mscott58

zachawry said:


> I agree. I don't begrudge Alex production delays, but a photo or 2 or 5 of production units seems like a pretty easy way for them to show appreciation for patient waiting.


----------



## micropixel

grrorr76 said:


> I have a mojo on the way and am looking at a cavelli liquid carbon to go with it. I will be interested to hear your thoughts.




It will be a long (worthwhile) wait. Was told it will ship by end December. Hope there will be others who get it sooner and post their thoughts. 

I did manage to audition the Mojo with some amps at a local headfi shop before I ordered the LC yesterday. Hp was LCD2F. 

Burson Soloist SL - analytical and not to my taste. It's detailed but felt boring for my vocal jazz. 

Audeze Deckard - was just a quick listen to this as it sounded very similar to ADL Esprit I already have at home. Full sounding ie doesn't sound thin, I would say flat across with mid slightly forward. Warmish and quite musical but not quite the lush analogue sound I was looking for. 

Bakoon HPA-01 and HPA-01M - Now this was a complete surprise and blew my socks off! They look slim and nothing like how you would expect an amp to look like. I reluctantly agreed to test them when the shop assistant shoved them to me and insisted I try. They sounded full and lush, tube like yet detailed. Exactly what I'm looking for. But for the price I'm put off by couple of quirks - battery operated and noisy volume pot which was difficult to control. Very close to pulling the trigger but ultimately couldn't get over the quirks as I'm looking for something to last me for years. But should the LC falls short, I will definitely reconsider them.


----------



## coastal1

Fwiw, I was contacted by the company because my address on file was a PO box and they think they need a physical address. I then asked when my order may ship and they said it's in a batch that will probably ship end of November. Order #~850. I've been very pleased with the communication from the company during this process.


----------



## jarnopp

coastal1 said:


> Fwiw, I was contacted by the company because my address on file was a PO box and they think they need a physical address. I then asked when my order may ship and they said it's in a batch that will probably ship end of November. Order #~850. I've been very pleased with the communication from the company during this process.




That is great news, because I am actual order #850 (no ~)!


----------



## Audio Addict

This will be my first Cavalli Audio amp.  I was wondering if it is 100% discrete amplifier or does it use opamps to drive the headphones.


----------



## jarnopp

audio addict said:


> This will be my first Cavalli Audio amp.  I was wondering if it is 100% discrete amplifier or does it use opamps to drive the headphones.




Fully discrete: http://cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=11


----------



## Audio Addict

jarnopp said:


> Fully discrete: http://cavalliaudio.com/index.php?p=product_details&pId=11


 
  
 Thanks.  Actually I was just on that page when I notice a follow up post.


----------



## nicolo

Duplicate post


----------



## Peridot

reddog said:


> Spontaneous purchasing is not a good healthy habit in this fantastic hobby.


 
  
  
 I just stumbled across this thread tonight and have somehow managed to order a Liquid Carbon. Had no intention of upgrading my headphone amp ... new cans were next on the agenda ... but there are times when you just know something is right


----------



## jarnopp

​


peridot said:


> I just stumbled across this thread tonight and have somehow managed to order a Liquid Carbon. Had no intention of upgrading my headphone amp ... new cans were next on the agenda ... but there are times when you just know something is right :happy_face1:




Then whatever you do, don't go over to the Mojo thread...


----------



## Peridot

jarnopp said:


> Then whatever you do, don't go over to the Mojo thread...


 
  
 I will stay clear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Although, while I am normally not bothered by appearance, I'm not sure I could own something _that_ ugly  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What's the current shipping situation on the Liquid Carbon's?
  
 I'm assuming that an order placed today is likely to be a 2016 delivery.


----------



## buke9

peridot said:


> I will stay clear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The last word was the first batch would ship out Monday but that will have to be seen. The last word was that all would ship before the end of the year.


----------



## Mr Rick

buke9 said:


> The last word was the first batch would ship out Monday but that will have to be seen. The last word was that all would ship before the end of the year.


 
  
 Actually, the notice said *the week of Nov 9, 2013. *


----------



## buke9

mr rick said:


> Actually, the notice said *the week of Nov 9, 2013. *


 
 Two years ago? Yes week of was what was said just like end of August. Still have fingers crossed I need it for my received today Ether-C's.


----------



## Mr Rick

mr rick said:


> Actually, the notice said *the week of Nov 9, 2013. *


 
 Sorry typo...............2015.


----------



## Peridot

buke9 said:


> Two years ago? Yes week of was what was said just like end of August. Still have fingers crossed I need it for my received today Ether-C's.


 
  
 Congratulations on your new arrival.
  
 I've been drooling over the Ethers-C's and will be very interested in your opinion of them and their pairing with the LC.


----------



## buke9

peridot said:


> Congratulations on your new arrival.
> 
> I've been drooling over the Ethers-C's and will be very interested in your opinion of them and their pairing with the LC.


 
 Listened to that combo at the fall Nashville meet and was the reason I bought the C's plus special meet price and free Dum upgrade (the wife actually told me to buy them(she loves coupons and specials ; ) )  I almost fell over). At the spring meet I listened to the Ether's with the LC and bought the LC the next day. They are also very nice with my new (spending is over for awhile) Questyle QP1R super nice Dap just so clean sounding.


----------



## Peridot

buke9 said:


> Listened to that combo at the fall Nashville meet and was the reason I bought the C's plus special meet price and free Dum upgrade (the wife actually told me to buy them(she loves coupons and specials ; ) )  I almost fell over). At the spring meet I listened to the Ether's with the LC and bought the LC the next day. They are also very nice with my new (spending is over for awhile) Questyle QP1R super nice Dap just so clean sounding.


 
  
 Hey, my wife is also a keen 'coupon queen' ... they'd get along 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I think you've done a lot of my research for me. I may have to wait for a planned visit to the US late next year if I'm going for the Ether-Cs as postage and import duties to the UK are prohibitive, but that will give me time to be sure it's the right choice.
  
 I'm after a DAP too, and have read a lot about the QP1R. I need streaming capability however, so I'm taking a keen interest in the new Android based players emerging from Onkyo and FiiO.


----------



## Cardiiiii

So the wait is finally over. These bad boys start shipping tomorrow, fingers crossed. Has anyone received any communication regarding the second batch of shipments?


----------



## nudd

I am order #677 I think so should be around the second batch of shipments, but haven't gotten anything from them yet.
  
 Edit: Ooops, got the order number wrong lol


----------



## Clemmaster

677 should be 3rd batch.
I'm 45x and know people with a lower # still.


----------



## buke9

clemmaster said:


> 677 should be 3rd batch.
> I'm 45x and know people with a lower # still.


 
 There was an order #600 that got the email to verify address.


----------



## mandrake50

buke9 said:


> There was an order #600 that got the email to verify address.


 

 Yes. I am at ~620. I figured that this should be in the second batch based on the posts to date for those receiving the confirmation email. At one point someone stated that the first batch would be around 150 units. The remaining batches at about 100 units. If this holds true, 677 may well be in the second batch. I am really hoping that my 620 will be in the second batch.
 After listening to the LC at RMAF, I knew the decision to order was the correct one. Unfortunately it made the itch to get mine in house even more severe.
  
 Hoping to get that confirmation email this week.


----------



## buke9

mandrake50 said:


> Yes. I am at ~620. I figured that this should be in the second batch based on the posts to date for those receiving the confirmation email. At one point someone stated that the first batch would be around 150 units. The remaining batches at about 100 units. If this holds true, 677 may well be in the second batch. I am really hoping that my 620 will be in the second batch.
> After listening to the LC at RMAF, I knew the decision to order was the correct one. Unfortunately it made the itch to get mine in house even more severe.
> 
> Hoping to get that confirmation email this week.


 
 682 here. Still hoping I'll be in the second batch also. There as been a lot of cancelled orders so numbers are at this point a little confusing.


----------



## Anjolie

Hmmm.....
  
 My number is #100000905, but that was way back in the middle of July.  Not sure where that puts me.  Much later than most I guess lol


----------



## buke9

anjolie said:


> Hmmm.....
> 
> My number is #100000905, but that was way back in the middle of July.  Not sure where that puts me.  Much later than most I guess lol


 
 I saw a post that said they contacted Cavalli and there #721 I think and they were told they would be in second batch. So you might be in batch 3 maybe. One can hope.


----------



## aamefford

699, no email yet.


----------



## nudd

peridot said:


> Hey, my wife is also a keen 'coupon queen' ... they'd get along
> 
> I think you've done a lot of my research for me. I may have to wait for a planned visit to the US late next year if I'm going for the Ether-Cs as postage and import duties to the UK are prohibitive, but that will give me time to be sure it's the right choice.
> 
> I'm after a DAP too, and have read a lot about the QP1R. I need streaming capability however, so I'm taking a keen interest in the new Android based players emerging from Onkyo and FiiO.





I would love to have one that can stream tidal lossless over wifi either bit perfect or with full parametric EQ. That would be totally awesome.


----------



## buke9

aamefford said:


> 699, no email yet.


 
 Not a thing from Cavalli saying they have anything done yet either. It will be late week if anything at all happens if I were to guess. Cavalli posted pics of things in progress but only a few parts and nothing finished but nothing for a while. Either it is going to be a surprise that it is shipping or it's not on the new path of completion . You would think they would like to calm peoples apprehensions about it shipping this week but they cut off chances of canceling orders so... I'm just saying. Why no new updates? I don't think they want to deceive anyone but why not show they are close?


----------



## grrorr76

I emailed them on the weekend and then ordered a carbon Saturday they said mine will ship first week of December .


----------



## rmullins08

buke9 said:


> Not a thing from Cavalli saying they have anything done yet either. It will be late week if anything at all happens if I were to guess. Cavalli posted pics of things in progress but only a few parts and nothing finished but nothing for a while. Either it is going to be a surprise that it is shipping or it's not on the new path of completion . You would think they would like to calm peoples apprehensions about it shipping this week but they cut off chances of canceling orders so... I'm just saying. Why no new updates? I don't think they want to deceive anyone but why not show they are close?


 
  
 Alex posted an update 2 weeks ago.  How much more does he need to do?


----------



## x RELIC x

grrorr76 said:


> I emailed them on the weekend and then ordered a carbon Saturday they said mine will ship first week of December .




So then they plan to ship all the unit's by the first week of December. Good stuff.


----------



## tuxbass

x relic x said:


> So then they plan to ship all the unit's by the first week of December. Good stuff.


 
 Would be very impressive if they can pull that off.
 Just seeing photos of the finished product would make me happy


----------



## buke9

tuxbass said:


> Would be very impressive if they can pull that off.
> Just seeing photos of the finished product would make me happy


 
 Don't say that . What more can Alex do?


----------



## zachawry

buke9 said:


> Don't say that . What more can Alex do?


 

 The answer to that question seems pretty clearly to be "take 5 minutes to post some photos of the finished product."


----------



## buke9

zachawry said:


> The answer to that question seems pretty clearly to be "take 5 minutes to post some photos of the finished product."


 
 I don't see that as too much to ask.


----------



## defbear

After all the Anxiety and the people on the first day to order hammering their keyboards to make sure they 'got in', the 'first' 500 units never sold out did they? Just drop dead great marketeering!


----------



## coastal1

defbear said:


> After all the Anxiety and the people on the first day to order hammering their keyboards to make sure they 'got in', the 'first' 500 units never sold out did they? Just drop dead great marketeering!




That is a little odd. Based on the order #s and posts just itt, it seems like they did sellout the 500 but kept pressing that only 500 were available for this price. To be fair, this release allowed refunds so they could never be sure they had 500 locked in.


----------



## DatGuy

coastal1 said:


> That is a little odd. Based on the order #s and posts just itt, it seems like they did sellout the 500 but kept pressing that only 500 were available for this price. To be fair, this release allowed refunds so they could never be sure they had 500 locked in.


 
 dont forget that the order numbers include other cavalli products inbetween, so there's no real way to tell how many have been sold


----------



## coastal1

datguy said:


> dont forget that the order numbers include other cavalli products inbetween, so there's no real way to tell how many have been sold


 
  
 Cavalli products are so high end that I can't imagine there's much volume for $4k amps that have been on the market for a while.


----------



## defbear

I think it was established early in the thread that the order numbers for the LC are not sequential. 500 of anything at $600 a pop is a tough sell. Especially for a teensy company in a teensy hobby. I thought it would take a few months for the 500 to sell out. I just never thought they couldn't do it!


----------



## zaintachik

defbear said:


> I think it was established early in the thread that the order numbers for the LC are not sequential. 500 of anything at $600 a pop is a tough sell. Especially for a teensy company in a teensy hobby. I thought it would take a few months for the 500 to sell out. I just never thought they couldn't do it!


 
 I'm honestly surprised that we've not reached 500 yet. Im relative newbie to this neither did i have a big budget, after endless researching, I thought for $600 was quite a bargain but i supposed without demoing and only reviews on prototype, it was a big leap of faith. I was comforted by the fact the brand had so many fan base and all their products were unsurpassed in quality,
  
 When the day it was released, it was 1-2 am in my part of the word, I wasnt going to stay up and i thought first thing in the morning i was gonna make my order. I was so afraid the it would reach 500 units that night itself.


----------



## doctorjazz

Does anyone actually know what they sold? Seems not, just conjecture. I also seem to remember them not saying 500 was an absolutely firm limit, but that there MAY not be more at this price point after that. Could be wrong, though.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

All we know is that the batch is not sold out.  Maybe Alex went over 500 units, or maybe there were just that many cancels?  We are a fickle crowd here...


----------



## Pirakaphile

Shipping today, hopefully!


----------



## doctorjazz

Maybe...


----------



## Stillhart

nudd said:


> I would love to have one that can stream tidal lossless over wifi either bit perfect or with full parametric EQ. That would be totally awesome.


 
  
 Fiio X7


----------



## nanoevil

eagerly awaiting for a tracking number notification today


----------



## Stillhart

Hate to be that guy, but the emails said "the week of Nov 9" not "exactly on Nov 9".  Patience...


----------



## Mr Rick

stillhart said:


> Hate to be that guy, but the emails said "the week of Nov 9" not "exactly on Nov 9".  Patience...


 
  
 I also mentioned that several pages back................ But people will believe what they want to believe.


----------



## coastal1

nudd said:


> I would love to have one that can stream tidal lossless over wifi either bit perfect or with full parametric EQ. That would be totally awesome.


 
  
 I plan to use my iPhone 6s for Tidal.  Got the 128GB model so can save files offline to avoid data usage when not on Wifi.


----------



## Barry S

I got my tracking number -- the shipment will be here tomorrow!!!!
For the iPhone cables I ordered from Monoprice last week.


----------



## rmullins08

barry s said:


> I got my tracking number -- the shipment will be here tomorrow!!!!
> For the iPhone cables I ordered from Monoprice last week.


----------



## kingdixon

barry s said:


> I got my tracking number -- the shipment will be here tomorrow!!!!
> For the iPhone cables I ordered from Monoprice last week.




Comooooon dude, where are the pictures ???


----------



## musiclvr

barry s said:


> I got my tracking number -- the shipment will be here tomorrow!!!!
> For the iPhone cables I ordered from Monoprice last week.



Yeeeeeeee haaaaaawwweee!!!!!


----------



## sahmen

barry s said:


> I got my tracking number -- the shipment will be here tomorrow!!!!
> For the iPhone cables I ordered from Monoprice last week.


 
 I love the smell of pranks and practical jokes on the morning of April 1st
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 Sooner or later, the LC will arrive...  It ain't going anywhere, and i'm in no rush...  I'm totally cool and calm.


----------



## scanspeakman1

Nice! Have fun!.......................... with your monoprice cables.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## mscott58

It's been over two hours since you got your tracking number and I don't have mine yet! That's terrible, and mean, and cruel and unprofessional. I'm going to call Alex and complain! Waaahhhh....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
_[Totally kidding of course! Very happy to see that things are moving along. Alex is a man of his word. Cheers] _


----------



## doctorjazz

mscott58 said:


> It's been over two hours since you got your tracking number and I don't have mine yet! That's terrible, and mean, and cruel and unprofessional. I'm going to call Alex and complain! Waaahhhh....:eek:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmmm, I've heard those words somewhere before, some thread on Head Fi, something to do with crowdfunding, can't place it...:rolleyes:


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> Hmmmm, I've heard those words somewhere before, some thread on Head Fi, something to do with crowdfunding, can't place it...


 
 Ha! LHL, whoops, I mean LOL!


----------



## Barry S

Those Monoprice iPhone cables are the best, amirite?  In unrelated news, I got to audition what looked like an early production Liquid Carbon at the DC meet this weekend and I think it sounds great. It was an amazing match with the HE1000--the slight warmth of the amp rounded off the edges of the HE1000 just perfectly for my taste. The build quality, fit, and, finish look great--very polished--it's a beautiful little brick. The Gumby>LC>HE1000 chain is outrageously good, not to say it didn't sound amazing out of the Yggy as well. Listening to the Liquid Carbon out of the Yggy with my LCD-X--the Carbon did a very credible job. More coloration and less resolution than the Rag, but very enjoyable. The quality of the Liquid Carbon is equal or better than a lot of larger and more expensive amps. For the size and price, I don't think you can do better.


----------



## x RELIC x

I'm now ready for the Liquid Carbon....... 

DAC-19... Check!

ETHER C... Check!


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> I'm now ready for the Liquid Carbon.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're going to be bummed when you realize it doesn't come with a power cord...


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> You're going to be bummed when you realize it doesn't come with a power cord...


 
 Ha! Nicely played Dan...


----------



## x RELIC x

Power cord..... CHECK!!


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> Power cord..... CHECK!!


Oh yeah, which one sounds best?


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Power cord..... CHECK!!


 
 Adapter cables/interconnects?


----------



## doctorjazz

NOT READY, NO, PLEASE, DON'T SEND IT, I CAN'T GET IT YET, NO NO NO NO NO NO, ANYTHING BUT THAT, AYYYYYEYEYEYEYEYIEWEWEIEIWEWIW!!!!!!!!!


----------



## defbear

mscott58 said:


> Adapter cables/interconnects?


Lectricity at the wall?


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> Oh yeah, which one sounds best?




The black one!


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> Lectricity at the wall?


 
 Air in the room?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I forgot where I put my power cord.  Now is the perfect time for the amp to show up...


----------



## Mr Rick

buttuglyjeff said:


> I forgot where I put my power cord.  Now is the perfect time for the amp to show up...


 
 Wait, it needs a power cord ??


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> The black one!


Ok, this thread is officially in a loop. (Just as I intended bwah ha ha)


----------



## cloudkicker

On the bright side, only a few more days till we hear first hand impressions from production units.


----------



## defbear

Two hours after the opening bell for ordering I said "what the heck" yup, just what I said at the time. So I ordered pretty early on. No email yet. Soon.


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> Ok, this thread is officially in a loop. (Just as I intended bwah ha ha)




Good job, and it's not even Groundhog Day.


----------



## buke9

Going with this red one. $25 from China. Got plenty of black ones worth a shot.


----------



## goldendarko

That looks like some I've seen for over 1k.


----------



## doctorjazz

buke9 said:


> Going with this red one. $25 from China. Got plenty of black ones worth a shot.




Is that an implement of torture? Think I've seen it in a medieval castle...


----------



## nicolo

Got a spare Cabledyne Silver power cord lying around for the Carbon. Only the best for that little baby!


----------



## ying

buke9 said:


> Going with this red one. $25 from China. Got plenty of black ones worth a shot.


 
 LOL make sure it doesn't catch on fire. You never know hahah


----------



## defbear

buke9 said:


> Going with this red one. $25 from China. Got plenty of black ones worth a shot.


I found one of those in my back yard and took it's head off with a shovel


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

buke9 said:


> Going with this red one. $25 from China. Got plenty of black ones worth a shot.


 
  
 Being red that would obviously have better synergy with the Liquid Crimson.  Rookie mistake........


----------



## buke9

Carbon = Black how could I have missed that dang : )


----------



## runeight

Hey guys. Quick update. Been heads down in getting Liquid Gold amps out. Coincidentally shipping during same time period as Carbons.
  
 All of the pieces needed for finally assembly are there as of yesterday. Unless there is some yet unforeseen problem when these things go together I would expect them to begin shipping in the next day or two. I'm just waiting for confirmation on this. I've also asked for pic of a finished unit.


----------



## SuperU

Great to know.
  
 Thanks for keeping up updated. Can't wait to get mine.


----------



## tuxbass

Thanks for the update, much appreciated.
 Can't wait for the pics


----------



## Evshrug

PS, a NICE pic which shows off a product in a good light (literally) will take a fair bit longer than 5 minutes to set up. This ain't no Polaroid/snapshot situation!


----------



## runeight

That's absolutely true, but right at the moment I want you guys to see what's coming off the line. They will be shop pics, but you'll see the final product pretty well. I should have something for you before end of day.
  
 Pro pics are needed and can come later.


----------



## buke9

runeight said:


> That's absolutely true, but right at the moment I want you guys to see what's coming off the line. They will be shop pics, but you'll see the final product pretty well. I should have something for you before end of day.
> 
> Pro pics are needed and can come later.


 
 Awesome.


----------



## buke9

buttuglyjeff said:


> Being red that would obviously have better synergy with the Liquid Crimson.  Rookie mistake........


 
 I pulled the cover off to check what kind of wire and it is made with and it is Monster cable 10 awg. I bet Monster charges a lot more.


----------



## gto88

hopefully the pictures of final product will be showing, say, by tomorrow?
 Can't wait to see it, and hopefully to get mine before end of the year, finger crossed.


----------



## immtbiker

Tic Tock…I'm ready to rock! 
  
 Razz-ama-tazz…I'm ready to jazz!
  
 Carbon and weather…best fall ever!


----------



## conquerator2




----------



## runeight

Here's pic of probably first one off the line. Obviously sitting on a work table at the assembly shop. Front and back panels are considerably refined from the proto pieces. Body is now a one piece extrusion.


----------



## grrorr76

runeight said:


> Here's pic of probably first one off the line. Obviously sitting on a work table at the assembly shop. Front and back panels are considerably refined from the proto pieces. Body is now a one piece extrusion.


 

 is the volume pot metal or plastic just out of interest?


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> Here's pic of probably first one off the line. Obviously sitting on a work table at the assembly shop. Front and back panels are considerably refined from the proto pieces. Body is now a one piece extrusion.


 
 Looks great Alex!!! Can't wait to get it in my system. Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

It does look really nice.


----------



## zachawry

Mmm...I have an almost salacious desire to put my hand on that volume knob and start cranking.


----------



## zaintachik

Woooohoooooooo. Power cables check, balanced cable check, dac not yet checked.


----------



## buke9

grrorr76 said:


> is the volume pot metal or plastic just out of interest?


 
 Billet aluminum front and back and extruded aluminum body I don't think the volume knob would be plastic just guessing.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Oh man! After seeing those pics I want mine now


----------



## DigitalFreak

Oh schiit, that looks really nice


----------



## drgajet

Wait! Where's the power cable!


----------



## tuxbass

runeight said:


> Here's pic of probably first one off the line. Obviously sitting on a work table at the assembly shop. Front and back panels are considerably refined from the proto pieces. Body is now a one piece extrusion.


 
 Wow it does look a lot more refined than the prototype versions.
 Thanks for accommodating the pic request


----------



## zachawry

These'll benefit from burn-in time, right? 
  
 And, thanks for the pics!


----------



## runeight

zachawry said:


> These'll benefit from burn-in time, right?
> 
> And, thanks for the pics!


 
  
 Actually, I've been meaning to post about the burn in. Glad you asked.
  
 On the big amps we always burn in for at least 50 hours before anything goes out. On the estat amps it's 100 hours.
  
 But, there's really no way to burn the Carbons for this long which means that you will get them with about 5 minutes of runtime necessary to set the operating points.
  
 Amp probably needs 100-150 hours, although the Carbons tend to sound pretty good right away. You can run continuously, but I recommend that you have music playing when you're doing this. Just heating the amp up for 100 hours is not nearly as useful. You don't need the volume really high. For most sources about 11 o'clock.
  
 However, and this is important, it is always better to burn in with balanced headphones if you can. If you use SE headphones half of each channel will see different burn in conditions from the other half.


----------



## zachawry

runeight said:


> Actually, I've been meaning to post about the burn in. Glad you asked.
> 
> On the big amps we always burn in for at least 50 hours before anything goes out. On the estat amps it's 100 hours.
> 
> ...


 

 Just out of curiosity, if I ordered a Liquid Gold from you (and I will, someday, dangit!), could I request it without any burn-in at all?
  
 I'd just like to hear for myself, out of pure curiosity, what it sounds like totally new versus burned in.


----------



## DecentLevi

Although I can't speak for Dr. Cavalli, I would venture to say that sounds like an easy yes, and that was a question best sent to him by personal email.
  
 Those were some seriously solid looking pix of the new finished units - built like a tank!


----------



## conquerator2

Are there significant differences between using the SE vs BAL inputs?
Assuming the BAL headphone out is always used.
Thanks!


----------



## DecentLevi

I know this is a long thread so here's some of the best quotes on the LC's phase splitting that allows balanced and SE to be equal:
  
 Quote:


runeight said:


> The LC isn't really optimized for either type of operation. It's a balanced amp that can accept SE input and deliver SE output.
> 
> But, let's clarify the input. I think we've already talked about the SE vs. Bal output enough, but maybe more detail on how the input works would be helpful.
> 
> ...





runeight said:


> ...The phase splitter on the Carbon is pretty good and quite faithful to what is coming into the SE inputs.  If a DAC has both Balanced and SE outs and IF these have the same SQ then I don't think you will be able to hear a difference between driving the Carbon SE or Bal. There probably is a slight difference because, after all, the signal is passing through more active elements when using the SE in with splitter, but may be below any audible threshold for most listeners with most headphones, if there at all.
> 
> OTOH, if the source's Bal and SE have different SQ then you should expect to hear this. But don't conclude that, if the SE is of lower quality, the splitter is causing this. It probably isn't. At the same time, the splitter cannot make up for lack of SQ in the SE signal that is coming in. It will put out a Bal signal as faithful to the SE input as it can but it won't try to fix it.
> 
> ...


 


stillhart said:


> Alright, some new facts for folks to chew on:
> 
> I finally have a second DAC that has both SE and Balanced outputs.  The first was my vintage Theta Basic II and now I have the Schiit Gungnir Multibit (GMB or Gumby).  When I tested the Theta through both the SE and Balanced inputs on the LC, I heard no difference.  This led me to believe that the phase splitter was pretty bad ass.
> 
> ...


 



decentlevi said:


> Awesome tips Dan! That confirms my 'hypothesis' that whether an equally good SE transport can be had from a DAC versus balanced, depends on how well the SE section is of your DAC. But then of course the only way to know that answer is to compare both outputs for yourself (assuming you have one that has both output types), and then it depends on which sound signature you prefer, since 'fidelity is in the ear of the beholder' rather than taking quoted text as 'the one and only truth'.


 
 Quote:


defbear said:


> Ok, this thread is officially in a loop. (Just as I intended bwah ha ha)


----------



## doctorjazz

Hmmm, the only headphone I have set up for balanced is the HE-1000, not sure I want to keep them connected and running with the LC...


----------



## conquerator2

^ Why?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

doctorjazz said:


> Hmmm, the only headphone I have set up for balanced is the HE-1000, not sure I want to keep them connected and running with the LC...


 
  
 Nothing wrong with wearing them through the process....


----------



## doctorjazz

Noisy, usually leave an iem in a case, in a cabinet when I'm burning, doesn't disturb the whole family (or give them the opportunity to make fun of me...)


----------



## doctorjazz

buttuglyjeff said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm, the only headphone I have set up for balanced is the HE-1000, not sure I want to keep them connected and running with the LC...
> ...




Likely what I'll do, as I don't expect the LC to sound BAD, even before burn in.


----------



## runeight

You can burn it in without headphones, but just try to play music into it.
  


zachawry said:


> Just out of curiosity, if I ordered a Liquid Gold from you (and I will, someday, dangit!), could I request it without any burn-in at all?
> 
> I'd just like to hear for myself, out of pure curiosity, what it sounds like totally new versus burned in.


 
  
 Probably not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The first reason has nothing to do with SQ and everything to do with unit failure.  For the dynamic amps, within 50 hours if there is likely to be a field failure we will see it (99.9% of the time). For the estat amps we go 100 hours just to be absolutely sure there is no infant mortality in the HV components (and very occasionally there is).
  
 The second reason is biasing stability. It takes the components at least 50 hours to settle into their stable values at temperature. So if we set the bias immediately and then ship the biasing will change over the first 50 hours. Thus, we wait, cook, and then re-bias right before approving the amp for shipping.
  
 For the Carbons we developed a method where we have determined what the likely change in bias will be (on average) and the over-set the bias to compensate for the predicted change. This will be pretty accurate and should keep the biases on all the amps within tolerable limits. The big amps, however, run at much higher biases and far more power dissipation. Thus, they see more significant changes over time until they stabilize.


----------



## sling5s

I just pre-ordered and got a notice that it might ship out before Christmas---a little over a month wait.  I guess there's some benefit to coming in/ordering late.


----------



## zachawry

runeight said:


> You can burn it in without headphones, but just try to play music into it.
> 
> 
> Probably not.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the detailed response. Fascinating! I had no idea that any of that adjustment was necessary. 
  
 By "bias" do you mean volume? So that, without adjusting the bias, different units coming off the same line would provide different volume levels at the same setting?


----------



## runeight

Bias, in this case, is the amount of idle current passing through the output stage devices. Does not affect volume. The higher the bias current the longer the amp stays in Class A mode. The big amps have fairly high bias for headphone amps which is why they get pretty hot. The Carbons have much lower bias because they cannot dissipate the power in such a small enclosure. Bias changes over time mostly due to thermal effects and then stabilizes.


----------



## zachawry

runeight said:


> Bias, in this case, is the amount of idle current passing through the output stage devices. Does not affect volume. The higher the bias current the longer the amp stays in Class A mode. The big amps have fairly high bias for headphone amps which is why they get pretty hot. The Carbons have much lower bias because they cannot dissipate the power in such a small enclosure. Bias changes over time mostly due to thermal effects and then stabilizes.


 

 Thanks very much for the reply. So much interesting stuff I don't know.
  
 I'm going to go off and get a degree in electrical engineering now, and as a reward to myself at the end I'll splurge for a Liquid Gold, or a Liquid Platinum by then....


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^^ You should submit that name....


----------



## DecentLevi

zachawry said:


> ...
> I'm going to go off and get a degree in electrical engineering now, and as a reward to myself at the end I'll splurge for a Liquid Gold, or a Liquid Platinum by then....


 

  
 Don't heckle the leader, or the metal may come next year


----------



## atomicbob

runeight said:


> But, there's really no way to burn the Carbons for this long which means that you will get them with about 5 minutes of runtime necessary to set the operating points.





So do the Liquid Carbons receive any power age at the board fab level?


----------



## Pirakaphile

runeight said:


> Bias, in this case, is the amount of idle current passing through the output stage devices. Does not affect volume. The higher the bias current the longer the amp stays in Class A mode. The big amps have fairly high bias for headphone amps which is why they get pretty hot. The Carbons have much lower bias because they cannot dissipate the power in such a small enclosure. Bias changes over time mostly due to thermal effects and then stabilizes.



At what power does the Carbon leave Class A operation?


----------



## joeexp

Tracking Numbers are coming:

  
  
 Scheduled delivery:
Mon, 11/16/2015 by 12:00 pm
  
 How am I going to get through this weekend?


----------



## buke9

joeexp said:


> Tracking Numbers are coming.


 
 We can all hope.


----------



## stjj89

joeexp said:


> Tracking Numbers are coming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The dream is real!


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

joeexp said:


> Tracking Numbers are coming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wait, are you in wave/week 1?


----------



## joeexp

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Wait, are you in wave/week 1?


 

 Yes - I got in early ...
 I wonder why they are being picked-up in Simi Valley, CA?
 Thought CA is producing their stuff in Texas...


----------



## santacore

I was a very early buyer. Just got my shipping notice that says it's shipping from Cedar Park, TX. I wish it was from CA, I would have it tomorrow.


----------



## runeight

Gents, the amps are shipping from the Los Angeles area, but the return address is to Cedar Park.


----------



## Clemmaster

Can I just come pick it up 
  
 I didn't get my notice yet (#495).


----------



## santacore

runeight said:


> Gents, the amps are shipping from the Los Angeles area, but the return address is to Cedar Park.


 

 Excellent news, thank you again for making a wonderful amp available to the H.F. masses.


----------



## defbear

I was told this week also. But no email yet.


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> I was told this week also. But no email yet.


 
 As Annie would say "there's always tomorrow..."
  
 (PS - I'm in the same boat, but not worried. Alex is a dude)


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> As Annie would say "there's always tomorrow..."
> 
> (PS - I'm in the same boat, but not worried. Alex is a dude)





Alex is *THE* DUDE!!! 




Spoiler: The Dude


----------



## stjj89

x relic x said:


> Alex is *THE* DUDE!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.


----------



## goldendarko




----------



## DatGuy

shipping notification arrived
  


Spoiler: in case people wanted to see approx what order# is what serial#


----------



## ejong7

Dr.Cavalli would you be so kind to send me a PM / announce here how much you wrote in for the customs clearance form whether its the full or part price? Would like to calculate how much damage is done in tax.


----------



## Youth

ejong7 said:


> Dr.Cavalli would you be so kind to send me a PM / announce here how much you wrote in for the customs clearance form whether its the full or part price? Would like to calculate how much damage is done in tax.


 
  
 They will write the full price if I remember correctly. I asked him this some time ago.


----------



## zachawry

youth said:


> They will write the full price if I remember correctly. I asked him this some time ago.


 

 Yeah, I'd like them to write $10 too, but you can't really ask them to break the law. 
  
 You could have them ship it to a re-packaging service in the US, which usually offer to remove all receipts/invoices etc. for a fee.


----------



## sujitsky

Order 448... Still waiting for shipping


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Looks like I'm getting my LC on the 19th.  And it looks like my serial number is lucky #7.....lol


----------



## ejong7

buttuglyjeff said:


> Looks like I'm getting my LC on the 19th.  And it looks like my serial number is lucky #7.....lol


 

 One night I'm gonna get into your house and swap out our Carbons..... you won't even notice it


----------



## sling5s

Sorry if this comes off dumb and forgive my ignorance ahead of time. So here is my question:
  
 I know the single output is only a quarter of the balanced output and I don't want to determinate my headphones. 
 Can I take advantage of the greater power of the balanced output by using a balanced to single adaptor?


----------



## sling5s

stjj89 said:


> Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.


 

 I know it's off topic but it seems you have both the Dac 19 and Bimby (both being multibit). How do they compare?
 Is the Bimby (that much) more bright and aggressive? I'm thinking about purchasing the Dac 19 and pairing it with the Liquid Carbon over the Bimby.


----------



## doctorjazz

Well, got the original email, but not the current notification from yesterday. Was hoping I might have it to bring to the meet in Stamford tomorrow (though, from what I'm reading, even if it somehow got to me on time, it needs quite a bit of burn in time to sound its best, so it probably wouldn't have worked out anyway). 
Have to make due with what I've got in the meantime, still have stuff to bring.


----------



## mscott58

sling5s said:


> Sorry if this comes off dumb and forgive my ignorance ahead of time. So here is my question:
> 
> I know the single output is only a quarter of the balanced output and I don't want to determinate my headphones.
> Can I take advantage of the greater power of the balanced output by using a balanced to single adaptor?


 
 Balanced headphones into SE output with adapter = fine 
  
 SE headphones into balanced output with adapter = bad idea
  
 Cheers


----------



## stjj89

sling5s said:


> I know it's off topic but it seems you have both the Dac 19 and Bimby (both being multibit). How do they compare?
> Is the Bimby (that much) more bright and aggressive? I'm thinking about purchasing the Dac 19 and pairing it with the Liquid Carbon over the Bimby.


 
  
 I compared them briefly at home, and my impression is that the Bimby is brighter and more shouty. The DAC-19 is smoother in the treble, has wider soundstage, has deeper bass extension, and overall has a warmer tilt. The DAC-19 kind of gives you the feeling that there's some lingering cloud "filling in" the space in the mids (think tubes), though this doesn't take away from the holographic soundstage that it provides. Both DACs make the soundstage more 3D, especially in terms of depth, as compared to my Bifrost Uber from before. My overall impression is that the DAC-19 is a better, and warmer R2R DAC.


----------



## sling5s

stjj89 said:


> I compared them briefly at home, and my impression is that the Bimby is brighter and more shouty. The DAC-19 is smoother in the treble, has wider soundstage, has deeper bass extension, and overall has a warmer tilt. The DAC-19 kind of gives you the feeling that there's some lingering cloud "filling in" the space in the mids (think tubes), though this doesn't take away from the holographic soundstage that it provides. Both DACs make the soundstage more 3D, especially in terms of depth, as compared to my Bifrost Uber from before. My overall impression is that the DAC-19 is a better, and warmer R2R DAC.


 

 Much appreciate your impressions.
 I'm planning on using the Mojo rather than the Bimby to feed the Liquid Carbon until I can purchase the Dac 19. It really sounds like the dac I've been looking for. 
 On a side topic,  x RELIC x's impressions on the Mojo compared to the Dac 19 seems very promising, he finds that they are really close in performance but different in presentation. I'm hoping the Mojo as a Dac will be an improvement over the Bimby in performance and sound signature.


----------



## stjj89

sling5s said:


> Much appreciate your impressions.
> I'm planning on using the Mojo rather than the Bimby to feed the Liquid Carbon until I can purchase the Dac 19. It really sounds like the dac I've been looking for.
> On a side topic,  x RELIC x's impressions on the Mojo compared to the Dac 19 seems very promising, he finds that they are really close in performance but different in presentation. I'm hoping the Mojo as a Dac will be an improvement over the Bimby in performance and sound signature.


 
  
 Since there are severely diminishing returns in the DAC upgrade ladder, I suspect that the difference in presentation will likely be way more discernable than the differences in performance. When I compared my DAC-19 ($850) to the Auralic Vega ($3500) at the recent SF Head-fi meet, I really couldn't tell if one was more revealing/detailed etc. than the other. What stuck out to me and the owner of the Vega was that the DAC-19 was smoother and warmer. YMMV, of course


----------



## sling5s

stjj89 said:


> Since there are severely diminishing returns in the DAC upgrade ladder, I suspect that the difference in presentation will likely be way more discernable than the differences in performance. When I compared my DAC-19 ($850) to the Auralic Vega ($3500) at the recent SF Head-fi meet, I really couldn't tell if one was more revealing/detailed etc. than the other. What stuck out to me and the owner of the Vega was that the DAC-19 was smoother and warmer. YMMV, of course


 

 Yes, totally get what you mean.
 Funny think about Bimby is that it was so much more smoother and warmer than the Uber version and it's also more warmer than the Gumby. But I guess nevertheless, it's got that Schiit forward, aggressive sound signature.  Which some people really love but I not so much.


----------



## runeight

Hey folks, another update because things have changed a little.
  
 First, it appears that the production team will get all 150 units in this first batch out this week. They are doing a really good job given that some parts came in late. If they can't get them out today, the remainder should go out Monday. So we're a little behind, but not very much, on this first batch.
  
 However, the parts for the rest of the batches have not arrived yet and are having some delays. This means that the schedule to do 100 per week following this week will probably change. I don't know exactly what it will change to yet, but if you haven't received a second and third batch confirmation email it's because we're waiting for better info.
  
 I know, it sucks, Kind of sucks for me too. But, definitely, on the bright side, amps are going out the door.
  
 I will provide update as soon as I know what's up.


----------



## pedalcolorado

Regarding the delay time, if I have not yet placed an order, but were to do so soon, would the next batch of available ones be ready to ship before christmas, or likely after?


----------



## aqsw

runeight said:


> Hey folks, another update because things have changed a little.
> 
> First, it appears that the production team will get all 150 units in this first batch out this week. They are doing a really good job given that some parts came in late. If they can't get them out today, the remainder should go out Monday. So we're a little behind, but not very much, on this first batch.
> 
> ...


 
 What order # is the last one shipped approx. I should be close @ #510
  
 Thanks Alex !


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

doctorjazz said:


> Well, got the original email, but not the current notification from yesterday. Was hoping I might have it to bring to the meet in Stamford tomorrow (though, from what I'm reading, even if it somehow got to me on time, it needs quite a bit of burn in time to sound its best, so it probably wouldn't have worked out anyway).
> Have to make due with what I've got in the meantime, still have stuff to bring.


 
  
 Mine isn't getting to me till Thursday, so I would imagine no Liquid Carbons at the NYC meets sadly...


----------



## runeight

aqsw said:


> What order # is the last one shipped approx. I should be close @ #510
> 
> Thanks Alex !


 
  
 I don't know exactly the answer to this ATM, but I can find out.
  
 Also, the amps are not going out exactly in order of serial #. There are some sensible reasons for this. For example, I believe the overseas shipments went first in a batch. Then there are the Fedex shipments and the USPS shipments. Obviously, each of these batches contains a range of numbers which may lead to out of order notification during the course of a day or a few days , but it is a logical and efficient way for them to do the fulfillment. But, they are only working from the first 150 orders and these will all get covered unless there is some unforeseen issue.


----------



## runeight

pedalcolorado said:


> Regarding the delay time, if I have not yet placed an order, but were to do so soon, would the next batch of available ones be ready to ship before christmas, or likely after?


 
  
 My intention and I know the same for the manuf is to get everything out well before the holidays. I know that they are working to do this.
  
 Of course, if an order comes in late in December that will be a different thing.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Hi Alex, quiick question, but will the amps require a signature upon delivery? And are amps delivered within the US going to be delivered by FedEx? 

Thanks for your time!


----------



## runeight

Each buyer had a choice of Fedex or USPS. For all Fedex shipments we have requested shipper that they be direct sig required.


----------



## pippen99

runeight said:


> Each buyer had a choice of Fedex or USPS. For all Fedex shipments we have requested shipper that they be direct sig required.


 
 My email confirmation says Ground Home Delivery.  Not sure exactly what service that means?  Order # 462


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

runeight said:


> Each buyer had a choice of Fedex or USPS. For all Fedex shipments we have requested shipper that they be direct sig required.




Thanks for the quick reply. Do the USPS shipments require sig as well? I work during times of delivery so there's a high chance I'll miss the drop off. If USPS requires sig I'll probably go Fed ex since I think you can request to hold it at the facility for pickup at least. I


----------



## AxelCloris

pippen99 said:


> My email confirmation says Ground Home Delivery.  Not sure exactly what service that means?  Order # 462


 
  
 That's FedEx Ground Home Delivery.
  


runeight said:


> Each buyer had a choice of Fedex or USPS. For all Fedex shipments we have requested shipper that they be direct sig required.


 
  
 It's a shame, but it would seem not everyone had the option to choose. I just ran through a mock LC checkout to confirm if my memory was accurate and it only offered FedEx as a carrier. Given the choice, I'd have chosen USPS as FedEx is notoriously terrible in my area. Oh well, it'll get here when it gets here.


----------



## runeight

pippen99 said:


> My email confirmation says Ground Home Delivery.  Not sure exactly what service that means?  Order # 462


 
  
 Home Delivery is designed for residences and delivers Tue through Sat to have a better chance of people being home. It is ground shipping with these different delivery days.


----------



## runeight

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. Do the USPS shipments require sig as well? I work during times of delivery so there's a high chance I'll miss the drop off. If USPS requires sig I'll probably go Fed ex since I think you can request to hold it at the facility for pickup at least. I


 

 USPS shipments do not require a sig because, in all cases that I know about, they are not left outside your door. Either in your mail box if you have one or in the mail station package box if you have a common location for the mailboxes in the neighborhood or apt complex. Stealing a package from a recognized mailbox at a residence is, I believe, a Federal offense.


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, if I may ask....
  
 I know it's been a long time for those of you who ordered first thing. And I know you have a lot of shipping/delivery questions. If I could ask that we take a break until EOB Los Angeles time and, actually, even farther into the evening. Drops/pickups with Fedex can go later than 5-6pm (esp with LA traffic).
  
 Let's see how many have gone out with shipping notices, then we can reconnoiter from there. I know that the prod team is doing dead level best to get all 150 out the door this week after the late start.


----------



## Pirakaphile

No questions here, only that if my package gets home when I'm working at Fed-Ex, I'll be able to bring it home the next day after work! However, I'll probably just have someone at home sign for it if possible. If not, I'll redirect it to my facility. 
In retrospect, I should've figured out how to get myself discounted or free shipping. Probably could've even tried to get a group coupon for anyone shipping with Fed-Ex. But too late!  
Tuesday couldn't come any sooner! Also, serial #006 here. I wonder who is before me?!


----------



## atomicbob

runeight said:


> USPS shipments do not require a sig because, in all cases that I know about, they are not left outside your door. Either in your mail box if you have one or in the mail station package box if you have a common location for the mailboxes in the neighborhood or apt complex. Stealing a package from a recognized mailbox at a residence is, I believe, a Federal offense.


 
 It is a Federal Offense, but in our neighborhood USPS will leave packages on the front porch if they don't fit into the boxes. A new class of criminal has cropped up, delivery service chasers. They have a spotter and a pick up person. This has led to installation of a large number of surveillance cameras.


----------



## runeight

Wow. No S#&%. Did not know. I guess the next step is to use a drone for the spotter. And then after that the pickup too.


----------



## runeight

And someone asked what the highest order number is in the first 150. It is #621 (serial #149 because the count starts at #000)


----------



## raybone0566

It costs an extra dollar for a signature requirement from usps. I've done it many times. All postage services have that option


----------



## stjj89

runeight said:


> And someone asked what the highest order number is in the first 150. It is #621 (serial #149 *because the count starts at #000*)


 
  
 This is when you know you're dealing with an engineer.


----------



## mscott58

atomicbob said:


> It is a Federal Offense, but in our neighborhood USPS will leave packages on the front porch if they don't fit into the boxes. A new class of criminal has cropped up, delivery service chasers. They have a spotter and a pick up person. This has led to installation of a large number of surveillance cameras.


 
 Totally. I live in downtown Philly and leaving packages on the doorstep is essentially the same thing as leaving them on the side of the street. People steal stuff all the time. In fact we even had pumpkins stolen this year, including one that weighed well over 100 lbs. Ugh.


----------



## rigo

So does this mean I am #1011?  Or am I order one billion something?   Am I looking at the wrong number?
  
*Your Order #1000001011 *
*(placed on Aug 23, 2015)*


----------



## mscott58

rigo said:


> So does this mean I am #1011?  Or am I order one billion something?   Am I looking at the wrong number?
> 
> *Your Order #1000001011 *
> *(placed on Aug 23, 2015)*


 
 Yep, 1011.


----------



## runeight

rigo said:


> So does this mean I am #1011?  Or am I order one billion something?   Am I looking at the wrong number?
> 
> *Your Order #1000001011 *
> *(placed on Aug 23, 2015)*


 
  
 You're actually much closer to order 1 Billion. But we still intend to ship it to you before the Christmas holidays.


----------



## buke9

Nice pictures of the amp and people getting tracking numbers and ther amps on the way and a delay for the rest of us this is for sure cruel and unusual punishment. I also believe the is against the Geneva convention . I might have to call my congressman about this.


----------



## Youth

It's gonna be a good Christmas this year!


----------



## rigo

runeight said:


> You're actually much closer to order 1 Billion. But we still intend to ship it to you before the Christmas holidays. h34r:




That would be the only thing I would need for Christmas.


----------



## purk

How about my order (Order Number 500)?  I was hoping that it will go out either Thursday or Friday but I have yet to receive any tracking information from you guys.


----------



## santacore

Sometimes it's good to live in the Los Angeles area....


----------



## purk

santacore said:


> Sometimes it's good to live in the Los Angeles area....


 
 Congrats!  Do you mind disclosing your order number?


----------



## santacore

Invoice #429


----------



## reddog

The amp looks stunning, hope it puts a smile on your face. I will wait contentedly for it to arrive and fill out applications.


----------



## atomicbob

reddog said:


> The amp looks stunning, hope it puts a smile on your face. I will wait contentedly for it to arrive and fill out applications.


 
 Well you have the Liquid Crimson to keep you busy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So what do you think of the Crimson and Glass?


----------



## singleended58

santacore said:


> Invoice #429




It looks good to me. What about #493? I have not received any notification until now (3:10 PM PST).


----------



## x RELIC x

Looks like I'm in the third batch, order #845, if we are to go by 150 per batch.

Patiently waiting.......







Spoiler: DAC thoughts



Since it was brought up earlier I thought I'd comment on what I mean by performance from a DAC. I listen for how accurate to real life the audio reproduction sounds and one of the things I focus on for that is in cymbals, hi hats, tambourines, and strings. If the detail and decay comes through realistically I consider it a good performing DAC. For example, on Pink Floyd's Mother if the acoustic guitars don't mush in to a one note chorus or if the hi hats in the background that kick in halfway through the song sound detailed like tShsssss, tShsssss, tShsssss, tShsssss instead is sss, sss, sss, sss then I consider the DAC very capable. The HA-1 goes sss, the iDAC2 goes 'sss', the DAC-19 goes 'tShsssss', the Mojo goes 'tShsssss'. The latter two sound real the former two sound like a digital reproduction in comparison. That's what I mean when I say a DAC has good performance. On their own the HA-1 and the iDAC2 sound detailed and capable but also are forced / exaggerated and the nuance is not there when directly compared to better DACs.


----------



## santacore

Although very light in weight, the amp looks great. I'm burning it in using my Pono player as my source. This amp will hopefully replace my Bryston BHA-1 as a great balanced bedside setup.


----------



## sujitsky

santacore said:


> Although very light in weight, the amp looks great. I'm burning it in using my Pono player as my source. This amp will hopefully replace my Bryston BHA-1 as a great balanced bedside setup.




Congratulations! Looks amazing.


----------



## musiclvr

purk said:


> How about my order (Order Number 500)?  I was hoping that it will go out either Thursday or Friday but I have yet to receive any tracking information from you guys.



Me too. I'm order #503


----------



## Peridot

santacore said:


> Sometimes it's good to live in the Los Angeles area....


 
  
  
  
 Where's the power cord ... I can't see a power cord


----------



## digitalzed

santacore said:


> Invoice #429


 

 Really happy for you! Enjoy! I'm #432 and haven't received a tracking number yet. I was supposed to be shipped this week too. Hopefully Monday...


----------



## digitalzed

peridot said:


> Where's the power cord ... I can't see a power cord


 

 Power cords ship separately.


----------



## digitalzed

singleended58 said:


> It looks good to me. What about #493? I have not received any notification until now (3:10 PM PST).


 

 493 is supposed to be in the range that shipped this week but it might be Monday.


----------



## santacore

No power cord was included.
  
 Here's an action shot and size comparison. I actually really like the way the Bryston sounds, but the size is inconvenient for this setup.


----------



## digitalzed

digitalzed said:


> Really happy for you! Enjoy! I'm #432 and haven't received a tracking number yet. I was supposed to be shipped this week too. Hopefully Monday...


 

 As soon as I posted this I received a tracking number. Magic?


----------



## reddog

atomicbob said:


> Well you have the Liquid Crimson to keep you busy   So what do you think of the Crimson and Glass?



The Crimson is very nice indeed, however the Glass is just the cats meow, it sounds like a tube amp created for god. I have gotten one good pair of nos tubes. I will get other tubes, once I have found another full time job. This great hobby comes without a money press .


----------



## atomicbob

reddog said:


> The Crimson is very nice indeed, however the Glass is just the cats meow, it sounds like a tube amp created for god. I have gotten one good pair of nos tubes. I will get other tubes, once I have found another full time job. This great hobby comes without a money press
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
 I'm going to have to find a meet where I can hear one. Hard for me to imagine performance beyond the Liquid Crimson. Yes, this hobby does burn through money, but not nearly as bad as owning a boat with moorage


----------



## doctorjazz

True, not to mention how expensive it is to do heroin! 

Just got my tracking #, but no mention of when to expect it yet, seems to just have been picked up.


----------



## pippen99

doctorjazz said:


> True, not to mention how expensive it is to do heroin!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Got my tracking # at 6:29 Central.  No expected delivery date yet.  Order #462 serial# 046


----------



## buke9

I just made light of not getting my amp on time. The attacks in Paris made this trivial to me.


----------



## zachawry

Oh, how I regret my moment of weakness a few weeks ago, cancelling that order I made on the first day, only to re-order later....


----------



## atomicbob

buke9 said:


> I just made light of not getting my amp on time. The attacks in Paris made this trivial to me.


 
 OMG!!!!


----------



## purk

Got the tracking now! Thanks cavalli Team! Next Thursday is so very far away for Eastcoast shipment. Order #500.


----------



## grrorr76

santacore said:


> No power cord was included.
> 
> Here's an action shot and size comparison. I actually really like the way the Bryston sounds, but the size is inconvenient for this setup.
> 
> ...


----------



## buke9

atomicbob said:


> OMG!!!!


 
 I doubt God had anything to do with this.


----------



## mwilson

Serial # 129 incoming, wooohooo!


----------



## atomicbob

buke9 said:


> I doubt God had anything to do with this.


 
 You are correct. Only evil men. Just my expression at something very very horrible.


----------



## mscott58

Order #595, SN #133 on its way to Philly! Woo-hoo!

Only problem is I'll be in Europe next week...

Cheers


----------



## buke9

atomicbob said:


> You are correct. Only evil men. Just my expression at something very very horrible.


 
 I just hate to call them men and or human .


----------



## musiclvr

•Order #503 & Serial #77• Now shipped!!!!!!!! Thank you Cavalli Audio Team!!! I appreciate all the hard work and diligence in making this happening a reality. Thank you.


----------



## reddog

atomicbob said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > The Crimson is very nice indeed, however the Glass is just the cats meow, it sounds like a tube amp created for god. I have gotten one good pair of nos tubes. I will get other tubes, once I have found another full time job. This great hobby comes without a money press
> ...



Lol boats can be alot of fun. I even had one friend, who ran a e m emergency boat cab and mechanics service. One day a drunken Millionaires asked him to take his fantastic book to Miami. My friend never showed up lol. He went rogue, hanging out in the Caribbean.
But anyway the glass has brought tears to my eyes, with its beautiful sound.


----------



## santacore

grrorr76 said:


>


 

 The amp sounds great as I expected. I will wait to give any real impressions until the amp is fully burned in.  Initial impression is that it holds it's own with the Bryston and my Fostex phones.


----------



## doctorjazz

Hey, I have a Pono, what cables are you using for the balanced connection to the LC, @grrorr76?


----------



## defbear

pippen99 said:


> My email confirmation says Ground Home Delivery.  Not sure exactly what service that means?  Order # 462


That usually means FedEx has hired USPS to deliver your box.


----------



## pippen99

defbear said:


> That usually means FedEx has hired USPS to deliver your box.


----------



## defbear

It is a dark dark Friday evening. Realize the gunmen wish every single person on this Forum dead.

And I got my shipping notice. Pay no attention to serial or order numbers. Nothing is sequential.


----------



## runeight

defbear said:


> That usually means FedEx has hired USPS to deliver your box.




It usually just means residential delivery between Tuesday and Saturday by FedEx not USPS.


----------



## defbear

runeight said:


> It usually just means residential delivery between Tuesday and Saturday by FedEx not USPS.


Not to quibble said the Quibbler but I have had four FedEx packages delivered by the good old postman. All with the exact same verbiage on the tracking notice.. Buy something on Amazon to be shipped by FedEx and watch a courier company no one has ever heard of deliver your package. Sometimes it takes several tries to retrieve a package from the FedEx gulag. FedEx no longer does all their own shipping. Its really shocking how much they farm out. And just forget receiving a package from the post office. Hold for delivery if you want to get it. In my professional duties I ship out 'things' Every week and receive other 'things' I have been abused by every carrier out their and have learned how to bend them to my will. I really have a beef with Fedex. They sell you this and they give you that. Yes I chose Fedex for the only reason that I know all the code words and buttons to push to get that driver to do their job and get our packages to us safely and on time. Bah!


----------



## doctorjazz

Just looked at my shipping notice/tracking number again. Now I see an arrival date, next Thursday. Must be because I'm in New Jersey...


----------



## santacore

doctorjazz said:


> Hey, I have a Pono, what cables are you using for the balanced connection to the LC, @grrorr76?


 

 I built my own based on the Pono spec. 1/8" stereo TRS to XLR. Pono must be set for balanced output via software option. What a great sounding balanced source for the money. I can't believe more people haven't caught on to using it that way.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm using it balanced to HE-1000, also to acs Encore, have seen balanced set ups (pictures, anyway) into speaker systems, was curious about yours. Thanks.


----------



## santacore

doctorjazz said:


> I'm using it balanced to HE-1000, also to acs Encore, have seen balanced set ups (pictures, anyway) into speaker systems, was curious about yours. Thanks.


 

 I'm using it in my bed side rig. It was Pono balanced out>Bryston BHA-1> Fostex TH900. Now the Liquid Carbon is in place of the Bryston. Cables are mil-spec 3 conductor wire with stereo 1/8" plugs to XLR. I believe the Pono manual has the info on how to setup balanced mode output along with a cable diagram.


----------



## singleended58

Yay! My order will be delivered tomorrow!
Ship date:
Fri 11/13/2015
CEDAR PARK, TX US
Scheduled delivery:
Sat 11/14/2015 by end of day
Fountain Valley, CA US


----------



## santacore

As for sound impressions-it sounds great! Just like I remember it sounding when I heard the prototype at CanJam. Very happy with the purchase.


----------



## grrorr76

santacore said:


> As for sound impressions-it sounds great! Just like I remember it sounding when I heard the prototype at CanJam. Very happy with the purchase.


 

 Thats great to hear, what I am interested to find out is what makes it better what are its attributes that make it a killer amp. What does it have that others don't?  I have one on order but am undecided if I will cancel or not its a lot of $$ to put down when I don't really know what is special about it other than people saying its awesome.


----------



## Audio Addict

Curious is everyone who had received the notice of shipping the week of the 9th received the actual shipping notice.  I did not receive any shipping notice.


----------



## jjshin23

You did reply back that the shipping address is still good? They did mention some people have not reponded back to verify shipping address.


----------



## Audio Addict

jjshin23 said:


> You did reply back that the shipping address is still good? They did mention some people have not reponded back to verify shipping address.


 
  
 Yes.  I had to contact them to get the initial notification as I had a typo on my email address on the original order.  I contacted them after the initial order as I did not get the order confirmation and they sent a copy of the order.  Then I had to contact them again when they were notifying about the actual shipment and received the email for the week of the 9th shipping.  I guess I will need to contact them again on the actual shipping as this original typo seems to be staying in their system.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## dpump

I'm curious as to whether there was any testing done on this first batch of amps before they were shipped?  Doesn't seem like they had time to do anything but assemble and ship.


----------



## singleended58

audio addict said:


> Yes.  I had to contact them to get the initial notification as I had a typo on my email address on the original order.  I contacted them after the initial order as I did not get the order confirmation and they sent a copy of the order.  Then I had to contact them again when they were notifying about the actual shipment and received the email for the week of the 9th shipping.  I guess I will need to contact them again on the actual shipping as this original typo seems to be staying in their system.
> 
> Thanks.




Go to Cavalli audio website and use "contact us" to email them. Within a day Terry will let you know the status of your order.


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> Just looked at my shipping notice/tracking number again. Now I see an arrival date, next Thursday. Must be because I'm in New Jersey...


 
 Right there with you doc. Thursday by end-of-day arrival estimate from FedEx to get from CA to PA. Not all bad as I'll just be getting back from Europe Thursday night!


----------



## jjshin23

audio addict said:


> Yes.  I had to contact them to get the initial notification as I had a typo on my email address on the original order.  I contacted them after the initial order as I did not get the order confirmation and they sent a copy of the order.  Then I had to contact them again when they were notifying about the actual shipment and received the email for the week of the 9th shipping.  I guess I will need to contact them again on the actual shipping as this original typo seems to be staying in their system.
> 
> Thanks.




Sorry to hear that and hopefully it has shipped when you contact them. Good luck.


----------



## Audio Addict

singleended58 said:


> Go to Cavalli audio website and use "contact us" to email them. Within a day Terry will let you know the status of your order.




Had Terry's email from prior confirmation and asked.


----------



## Peridot

dpump said:


> I'm curious as to whether there was any testing done on this first batch of amps before they were shipped?  Doesn't seem like they had time to do anything but assemble and ship.


 
  
 It was discussed previously that they will have had an approx. 5 minute functional test and calibration cycle.


----------



## sujitsky

audio addict said:


> Curious is everyone who had received the notice of shipping the week of the 9th received the actual shipping notice.  I did not receive any shipping notice.




I am also waiting for shipping notification and Terry is looking into it.


----------



## defbear

dpump said:


> I'm curious as to whether there was any testing done on this first batch of amps before they were shipped?  Doesn't seem like they had time to do anything but assemble and ship.


That might be our job.


----------



## BucketInABucket

I'm number 928! Got awhiles to go


----------



## runeight

dpump said:


> I'm curious as to whether there was any testing done on this first batch of amps before they were shipped?  Doesn't seem like they had time to do anything but assemble and ship.


 
  
 I would like to address this proposition directly. No amp goes out untested. These are not just being slapped together and shipped. The entire enclosure structure, board fit, etc. were carefully thought out to make the final steps efficient, but well done.
  
 Every board is tested at multiple DC test points to ensure that it comes to correct DC operating condition. Then it is cycled through a bias setting operation as described previously.
  
 Just because the schedule is compressed does not mean that the assembler is skipping steps. They are not.


----------



## buke9

runeight said:


> I would like to address this proposition directly. No amp goes out untested. These are not just being slapped together and shipped. The entire enclosure structure, board fit, etc. were carefully thought out to make the final steps efficient, but well done.
> 
> Every board is tested at multiple DC test points to ensure that it comes to correct DC operating condition. Then it is cycled through a bias setting operation as described previously.
> 
> Just because the schedule is compressed does not mean that the assembler is skipping steps. They are not.


 
 On a side note any word on the delays? Waiting patiently is getting harder


----------



## Mr Rick

Never received a tracking number,  ( unless i missed it. ) but just received my LC a few minutes ago by Fed Ex.
  
 Thank you Cavalli !!


----------



## mscott58

My tracking info came from FedEx, not from Cavalli, so some peoples spam filters might have grabbed them. Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

Liquid Carbon SN #11 has arrived.  
  
 No power cable tho...


----------



## Mr Rick

stillhart said:


> Liquid Carbon SN #11 has arrived.
> 
> No power cable tho...


 
  OK wise guy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also, mine came without any feet. I added some leftovers from my other Schiit.


----------



## buke9

No word on delays?


----------



## bearFNF

I am sure Alex will say something when there is something to say... have a drink and relax...


----------



## buke9

bearfnf said:


> I am sure Alex will say something when there is something to say... have a drink and relax...


 
 Damn it's been so long it's hard to wait.


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah, I know. But it is getting real close and some are out in the wild so there is hope it will be here and there soon...


----------



## atomicbob

bearfnf said:


> I am sure Alex will say something when there is something to say... have a drink and relax...


 
 Excellent advice. It's good to have a belief system. Me, I believe I'm going to have a beer.


----------



## runeight

mr rick said:


> OK wise guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Note that there are two small channels along the bottom that run the length of the unit that are the feet. But we knew that some of you would attach rubber feet too.


----------



## Mr Rick

runeight said:


> Note that there are two small channels along the bottom that run the length of the unit that are the feet. But we knew that some of you would attach rubber feet too.


 
  
 Yes, not necessary, but I think it sounds better with rubber feet.


----------



## aamefford

Are the channels rubber filled or metal? Rubber's required for me, channels or feet for stacking purposes.


----------



## Mr Rick

aamefford said:


> Are the channels rubber filled or metal? Rubber's required for me, channels or feet for stacking purposes.


 
  
 Channels are part of the bottom plate. Therefore metal.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Self stick felt pads might be nice.  No?


----------



## Mr Rick

buttuglyjeff said:


> Self stick felt pads might be nice.  No?


 
  
 That would work. I had a bunch from my Schiit that I saved, because I substituted larger feet that I purchased on Amazon.


----------



## doctorjazz

What feet are people thinking of? Any link to Amazon or similar? Thanks.


----------



## Mr Rick

doctorjazz said:


> What feet are people thinking of? Any link to Amazon or similar? Thanks.


 
  
 They come in lots of sizes.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OTNGPQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage


----------



## santacore

Come on guys, I can't be the only one who has one up and running. I fell asleep listening to it last night with my Fostex TH900's. The sound was balanced, had good tone, and created nice sound staging. At this price point, I think the amp is a home run. What are the rest of you hearing??


----------



## Mr Rick

santacore said:


> Come on guys, I can't be the only one who has one up and running. I fell asleep listening to it last night with my Fostex TH900's. The sound was balanced, had good tone, and created nice sound staging. At this price point, I think the amp is a home run. What are the rest of you hearing??


 
  
 I started a thread for owner impressions.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions


----------



## doctorjazz

Gotta wait until Thursday,sorry (truly, I am...)


----------



## Evshrug

mr rick said:


> They come in lots of sizes.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OTNGPQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage



I wear a size 10 and 1/2, for most brands...


----------



## conquerator2

Hey,
 Would it be possible to custom order different gain? I believe the LC has 0/10 settings by default, so say I needed 10/20 instead, would that be possible?
 Thank you


----------



## ejong7

conquerator2 said:


> Hey,
> Would it be possible to custom order different gain? I believe the LC has 0/10 settings by default, so say I needed 10/20 instead, would that be possible?
> Thank you


 

 Lukas are you just jumping on this train now? I am disappointed in you


----------



## runeight

conquerator2 said:


> Hey,
> Would it be possible to custom order different gain? I believe the LC has 0/10 settings by default, so say I needed 10/20 instead, would that be possible?
> Thank you


 
  
 Well, not really possible to do with a higher volume product like this. LC has gains of 1X and 3X.


----------



## conquerator2

ejong7 said:


> Lukas are you just jumping on this train now? I am disappointed in you


 
 Nah been lurking around for a while now


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Hey,
> Would it be possible to custom order different gain? I believe the LC has 0/10 settings by default, so say I needed 10/20 instead, would that be possible?
> Thank you


 
  
 You know it drives the HE-1000 fine.  I've heard it on the LC several times as have most folks who heard the LC at RMAF.  Heck, the new portable drives the HE-1000 fine.  I don't think you're going to need more gain...


----------



## bearFNF

stillhart said:


> You know it drives the HE-1000 fine.  I've heard it on the LC several times as have most folks who heard the LC at RMAF.  Heck, the new portable drives the HE-1000 fine.  I don't think you're going to need more gain...


 

 especially if you want to NOT go deaf...


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> conquerator2 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey,
> ...



The new portable is the first amp that made me really, truly excited about the HE1000. And yes, I know how weird that sentence sounds.


----------



## DigitalFreak

I walk away from the thread for a few days and th whole place has gone bonkers with squeals of delight. good to hear the first few people to get their Carbons are enjoying them
  
 Dr Cavalli, I got a email asking me to verify my shipping address, which I did, but haven't gotten any shipping nor tracking email yet. I'm guessing I'm in the second batch?


----------



## defbear

I got caught up in the excitement as well. What I wanted was balanced inputs and balanced output. The efficient phase inverter for single ended input is desirable as well. I couldn't find another amp at the price that had all these features. I have a nice Emotiva Stealth Dac 1 with balanced outs to go with it. I expect my ifi idsd is going to pair up nicely. And hooray for me, I have nice balanced cables to go with my Pono Player. My LC arrives tomorrow. Until then I will have to console myself with my Audio-gd Master 11 and Sennheiser HVDV800 which I purchased waiting for this dang thing to arrive. I recently spent 10 days with my ifi idsd, hd800's and a samsung tab s tablet. A really lovely travel kit. But I think the addition of the 2 pound LC will just be a sensational, portable setup.


----------



## x RELIC x

Have only the first batch customers received an email to confirm their address? I haven't received one yet and am guessing I'm in the third batch, should I have?

#845


----------



## joeexp

The unavoidable unpacking photos .. 
 I am amazed nobody got around to it yet ...
 The Cavalli Carbon comes very well packaged and it's amazing how small the actual thing is. 
 Also note the ridges at the bottom which double up as feet. I guess I am still going to stick some silicon feet  on there myself.
 Overall very nice finish - I like the contrast between the Front/Back plates which are brushed Aluminium and the extruded body which has
 a matt finish.


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> I got caught up in the excitement as well. What I wanted was balanced inputs and balanced output. The efficient phase inverter for single ended input is desirable as well. I couldn't find another amp at the price that had all these features. I have a nice Emotiva Stealth Dac 1 with balanced outs to go with it. I expect my ifi idsd is going to pair up nicely. And hooray for me, I have nice balanced cables to go with my Pono Player. My LC arrives tomorrow. Until then I will have to console myself with my Audio-gd Master 11 and Sennheiser HVDV800 which I purchased waiting for this dang thing to arrive. I recently spent 10 days with my ifi idsd, hd800's and a samsung tab s tablet. A really lovely travel kit. But I think the addition of the 2 pound LC will just be a sensational, portable setup.




Do mind me asking which cable you have for balanced Pono? I have a balanced cable for HE-1000, and for acs Encores, neither off which will work in this situation. Thanks.


----------



## jarnopp

x relic x said:


> Have only the first batch customers received an email to confirm their address? I haven't received one yet and am guessing I'm in the third batch, should I have?
> 
> #845



I'm #850 and no email of any kind yet


----------



## nanoevil

My Carbon is still in KS...still a few hours before it reaches Indiana...won't get my hands on it till Sat. so excited


----------



## Barry S

nanoevil said:


> My Carbon is still in KS...still a few hours before it reaches Indiana...won't get my hands on it till Sat. so excited


 

 The one I ordered made it to Cloverdale, Indiana this morning, via NM and OK. The famous Liquid Carbon Trail.


----------



## buke9

jarnopp said:


> I'm #850 and no email of any kind yet


I believe Dr Cavalli said first batch was up to #620. That was the only ones to get emails till they know about the parts delay.


----------



## joeexp

I just had a quick listen with the Chord Hugo as the DAC. And yes I know according to the Manual, the Carbon needs  a good burning in of around 150 hours. But straight out of the box I can say that the wait was well worth it. The "engagement level" to quote the famous "Currawong" is through the roof! And I would recommend for Chord to have their amps designed by the good Dr Cavalli from now on. I did not know, how much was missing. Lets see how much improvement is yet to come through the burning in process. Most amps "mellow out" a little.


----------



## nanoevil

joeexp said:


> I just had a quick listen with the Chord Hugo as the DAC. And yes I know according to the Manual, the Carbon needs  a good burning in of around 150 hours. But straight out of the box I can say that the wait was well worth it. The "engagement level" to quote the famous "Currawong" is through the roof! And I would recommend for Chord to have their amps designed by the good Dr Cavalli from now on. I did not know, how much was missing. Lets see how much improvement is yet to come through the burning in process. Most amps "mellow out" a little.


 
 Woah...so excited to here this...I'm using my Hugo with my LC too...will have a friend make Crystal Cable ICs just for the connections hahaha


----------



## nanoevil

barry s said:


> The one I ordered made it to Cloverdale, Indiana this morning, via NM and OK. The famous Liquid Carbon Trail.


 
 I bet it's in Indiana also since the last scan was 2am in the morning in KS. 
  
 My folks live in Highland , Indiana so I'll be picking my LC there when I arrive from the Philippines


----------



## nanoevil

Just noticed that my shipping details indicated that my LC is Serial # 00102 wish I had no. 100


----------



## Clemmaster

Fresh out of the box, at work.
  
 It's smaller than I remembered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 It's very elegant and well finished. It is also a fingerprint / dust magnet. I doesn't come with rubber feet and already scratched my Geek Pulse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 A cute gear.


----------



## mscott58

bearfnf said:


> especially if you want to NOT go deaf...


 
 And you should get your hearing checked at the same time. 
  
 Oh wait, that suggestion caused a bit of a ruckus on another thread, so I won't say it here.


----------



## mscott58

barry s said:


> The one I ordered made it to Cloverdale, Indiana this morning, via NM and OK. The famous Liquid Carbon Trail.


 
 Looks like ours are on the same truck! Travel safely our little LC friends...


----------



## aqsw

nanoevil said:


> Just noticed that my shipping details indicated that my LC is Serial # 00102 wish I had no. 100


 
 What was your order # ?


----------



## aqsw

clemmaster said:


> Fresh out of the box, at work.
> 
> It's smaller than I remembered
> 
> ...


 
 I'm going to put it on a mouse pad on top of my Hegel HD12.


----------



## nanoevil

aqsw said:


> What was your order # ?


 
Mine was 546


----------



## aqsw

nanoevil said:


> Mine was 546


 
 I'm guessing mine will be about #80 then. There must have been quite a few cancellations. I am #510, but no email yet.


----------



## ejong7

clemmaster said:


> Fresh out of the box, at work.
> 
> It's smaller than I remembered
> 
> ...


 

 It scratched eh? I should invest on some rubber feet then. Gonna have the same setup.


----------



## Mr Rick

aqsw said:


> I'm guessing mine will be about #80 then. There must have been quite a few cancellations. I am #510, but no email yet.


 
  
 I was #506 and got #79 over the weekend.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

clemmaster said:


> Fresh out of the box, at work.
> 
> It's smaller than I remembered  .
> It's very elegant and well finished. It is also a fingerprint / dust magnet. I doesn't come with rubber feet and already scratched my Geek Pulse  .
> ...




Hey Clem. Any impressions with UERM?


----------



## mscott58

mr rick said:


> I was #506 and got #79 over the weekend.




I'm order 595 with SN 133. Should be here Thursday.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

aqsw said:


> I'm going to put it on a mouse pad on top of my Hegel HD12.


 
  
 Oh a pic of that please....


----------



## aqsw

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh a pic of that please....




I'm going to cut it to the proper size. Ou won't be able to see it!


----------



## aqsw

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh a pic of that please....




I'm going to cut it to the proper size. You won't be able to see it!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

aqsw said:


> I'm going to cut it to the proper size. Ou won't be able to see it!


 
  
 I wanted to see the pairing more then the mouse pad....


----------



## aqsw

buttuglyjeff said:


> I wanted to see the pairing more then the mouse pad....:wink_face:




Oh, Got you now. I will post a pic of my setup when I get it. Waiting on an Elise too. Probably use that as a tube pre amp.


----------



## Beolab

*Request*

Interesting to hear how the Carbon can handle the HifiMan HE-6 or the JPS Labs Abyss for example ? 

And i have forget, but what was the max Volt and current Amps the Carbon could deliver?


----------



## reddog

nanoevil said:


> I bet it's in Indiana also since the last scan was 2am in the morning in KS.
> 
> My folks live in Highland , Indiana so I'll be picking my LC there when I arrive from the Philippines



Be safe in your travels. Plus I love the Philipines, the people are great and the land so beautiful, never see. So many shades of green.


----------



## Audio Addict

aqsw said:


> I'm guessing mine will be about #80 then. There must have been quite a few cancellations. I am #510, but no email yet.



I am 528 and talked with Terry and it is supposed to ship today and I should get a tracking email. I would think you would too.


----------



## conquerator2

Any HEK impressions welcome


----------



## doctorjazz

Waiting on the LC, end of the week, will have impressions then (posts from meets have all been Very positive).


----------



## sujitsky

audio addict said:


> I am 528 and talked with Terry and it is supposed to ship today and I should get a tracking email. I would think you would too.




I am 448 and got my tracking email today


----------



## immtbiker

Mine left California (not Texas) on Friday, and FedEx Home now says an arrival estimate of Thursday.
  
 They must be using the Pony Express!


----------



## doctorjazz

Lots of stops for donuts, I'd guess...


----------



## sling5s

Is the listed price ($599) and availability no longer limited to 500? Or has 500 not been sold?


----------



## doctorjazz

Deemed even last week they still were taking orders...I'd check the web site.


----------



## sling5s

doctorjazz said:


> Deemed even last week they still were taking orders...I'd check the web site.


 

 I did order last week but just wondering if this is no longer a limited production run.


----------



## runeight

sling5s said:


> I did order last week but just wondering if this is no longer a limited production run.


 
  
 Yes it is still limited to 500 pcs.


----------



## Mr Rick

runeight said:


> Yes it is still limited to 500 pcs.


 
  
 Destined to become collectors items.


----------



## sling5s

runeight said:


> Yes it is still limited to 500 pcs.


 

 I feel both lucky and surprised that it has not reached 500.


----------



## weitn

Mine will arrived on Thursday but I won't be home until the following Monday.


----------



## SandyBay

Just received a shipping notification email from Cavalli this morning. My LC is on its way to Australia. No serial # info in the email. Order # 588.

Now Gustard X12/U12 are ready for the LC. Cannot wait to compare it with dual mono Questyle CMA800R driving HD800 and HE560. All balanced cables (DAC to amp to headphones).


----------



## buke9

Really happy for all those getting there's but it is killing me not knowing when the next batch will go out. I guess I should not have waited the extra two days before ordering.


----------



## defbear

For curious minds, order 578 serial 120 arrived today. OMG Fedex delivered first try. I opened the box, and it wasn't so much opening. It was more like 'Gutman' tearing at the Maltese Falcon. I've just hooked it up. I have not read any of today's posts so here we go. I'm a little amused as the manual says the LC needs 150 hours continuous break-in before it's sound signature can be judged. Also it sounds best with 15-30 minutes warm up. Well it's always good to put your best foot forward but nah, no way. I plugged the LC into my Emotiva DAC 1 using PYST balanced xrl's. I plugged my recent Macbook Pro via USB, running Audirvana Plus. I put on Lady Gaga's Artpop album tune 'Venus'. I know it inside out. There are tons of easter eggs to find and hear. Lots of reverbs and decays and the space to hear them. It's also has bass and is an EDM monster. So my first 'test' here is with a new out of the box stone cold LC and I could be in tears it's so good. I heard a new very low female voice I had not heard before in 'Venus'. I'm using hd800 headphones. I went through three tunes until at the end I was about to shout 'help i'm surrounded' Massive sound stage front, back, side to side. So now Im going to give it that 30 minute warmup and report later.


----------



## Cardiiiii

joeexp said:


> I just had a quick listen with the Chord Hugo as the DAC. And yes I know according to the Manual, the Carbon needs  a good burning in of around 150 hours. But straight out of the box I can say that the wait was well worth it. The "engagement level" to quote the famous "Currawong" is through the roof! And I would recommend for Chord to have their amps designed by the good Dr Cavalli from now on. I did not know, how much was missing. Lets see how much improvement is yet to come through the burning in process. Most amps "mellow out" a little.




What mode are you using the Hugo in? Is the volume still adjustable on the Hugo or is it a fixed line out?


----------



## DecentLevi

@defbear, Having tried and knowing the signature of both the detailed Bifrost Uber and the semi-dark LC, I would be they would be an even better pairing, if you dare to try yours with it...


----------



## defbear

decentlevi said:


> @defbear
> , Having tried and knowing the signature of both the detailed Bifrost Uber and the semi-dark LC, I would be they would be an even better pairing, if you dare to try yours with it...


No need to dare me, wild horses couldn't stop me.


----------



## runeight

decentlevi said:


> @defbear, Having tried and knowing the signature of both the detailed Bifrost Uber and the semi-dark LC, I would be they would be an even better pairing, if you dare to try yours with it...


 
  
 Gents, not my place to be much part of this discussion and I won't be, but...
  
 The meme was started a while back that the Carbon is dark or rolled off. I don't believe it is. Just sayin'.
  
 Now back to the show.


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> Gents, not my place to be much part of this discussion and I won't be, but...
> 
> The meme was started a while back that the Carbon is dark or rolled off. I don't believe it is. Just sayin'.
> 
> Now back to the show.


 
 Agree with Alex. Didn't find the LC "dark" at all. To each his (or her) own though. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## santacore

It's not dark. Pretty neutral actually.


----------



## defbear

I don't think it's dark. Its spacious. Detailed and to be fair, not broken in. I was thinking the bifrost might be a bit edgy. I will try it later for fun. Listening to Lou Reed 'What's good'. Fernando Saunders is well represented. Lou wrote great songs and made some finely crafted recordings. I think what i'm hearing this evening is an amp that has a big soundstage and at the same time a very up front presentation. It's not 'bright' but it's not backing down. It rocks. I'v got it about half way up on the low setting with hd800's.


----------



## doctorjazz

Any amp That is a friend of Lou's is a friend of mine!


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Any amp That is a friend of Lou's is a friend of mine!


The old statement that everybody who bought a Velvet Underground formed a band is somewhat true. I was one of them. God bless Lou Reed.


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> The old statement that everybody who bought a Velvet Underground formed a band is somewhat true. I was one of them. God bless Lou Reed.


 
 And be sure not to forget to add the LC to your equipment list in your signature line! 
  
 Maybe Warren could even cook up an "LC500" badge?


----------



## doctorjazz

I suppose that was true for me as well, had a band in College as well, but we were mainly an instrument of torture...think many who heard us (and there weren't too many) wound up giving up listening to music!



defbear said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Any amp That is a friend of Lou's is a friend of mine!
> ...


----------



## immtbiker

doctorjazz said:


> Lots of stops for donuts, I'd guess...


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> I suppose that was true for me as well, had a band in College as well, but we were mainly an instrument of torture...think many who heard us (and there weren't too many) wound up giving up listening to music!


My high school band were covering the Velvets before they had their second album out. Today I play a lot of fingerstyle guitar and can do a nice Clapton impression.


----------



## abernardi

Holy crap, #80 Carbon arrived today, along with a new cable for my new (used) HD800's w/Anax mod...  Listening to all of them for the 1st time!  Out of the box, smooth, tight, fast.  Hearing more air in my LCD 2.2's which surprised me, but the amp is holding the Audeze cadillac bottom end in good check.  So far so good, let the burn-in begin!


----------



## maximus1245

Do you think this amp would go well with the emotiva stealth dc-1? I am trying to upgrade my Modi 2 and take advantage of the carbon's balanced inputs.


----------



## joeexp

cardiiiii said:


> What mode are you using the Hugo in? Is the volume still adjustable on the Hugo or is it a fixed line out?


 

 I am using the fixed line out -  [Start-up with crossfeed button pressed.]


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Do mind me asking which cable you have for balanced Pono? I have a balanced cable for HE-1000, and for acs Encores, neither off which will work in this situation. Thanks.


I got my cables from surfcables.com. One pair has an 1/8 trs on each end and a three pin xlr on the other. They made me another cable with two 1/8 for the Pono on one end and a female 4 pin xlr on the other. This way this cable can be used with most balanced headphones with a 4 pin balanced cable. Surfcables.com also re - terminated my hd 598 ' s for balanced. I received perfect cables at a reasonable price. No Voodoo or Unicorns. Perfect service as well.


----------



## DatGuy

@runeight Hey Dr Cavalli, just a quick question. When we are burning the carbons in, you recommended that we had music playing and no headphones plugged in. Is there a recommended gain setting or volume we should set the carbon at?
  
 I couldn't help myself had 5 minutes listen from my ipod classic (that i brought out of retirement to burn in). I have to say it was nothing short of amazing


----------



## hemtmaker

How does one burn in without headphones plugged in. I thought with no load, there will be no current???


----------



## nanashisan

Excitied for Wednesday, both my carbon and Yggdrasil are scheduled to be delivered. If anybody is interested my order is #618.


----------



## DatGuy

hemtmaker said:


> How does one burn in without headphones plugged in. I thought with no load, there will be no current???


 
  
 dr cavalli himself suggested it was fine here
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3765#post_12068972
  
 you'd probably need someone who has more technical knowledge to know whats going on there, im just following the good doctors prescription


----------



## runeight

datguy said:


> dr cavalli himself suggested it was fine here
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3765#post_12068972
> 
> you'd probably need someone who has more technical knowledge to know whats going on there, im just following the good doctors prescription


 
  
 It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.


----------



## runeight

Gents, here's my next not very definitive update.
  
 We are waiting on front/back panels. This the the same reason for the original delays.
  
 Until the production team and I know when the next batch will arrive we can't predict delivery. But I can tell you that they're not going to be here this week. Sucks.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Growing pains do suck, but happen.  Sorry next batch a fellas....


----------



## bearFNF

Plus side is you beta testers can make sure there are no unforseen issues with the amp.  

Not that I expect there to be any, but it helps me to cope with the wait...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

On a positive upside (well just for me), my expected delivery date was moved up to Wednesday.  And my amp traveled near the Cavalli homeland (Cedar Park, TX).  But sadly I just found out I have to work long days, everyday, until the Thanksgiving holiday.  So, its going to be a while till I can enjoy the Liquid Carbon anyways....


----------



## maximus1245

runeight said:


> It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.




Also,is it better for burn in to have the music coming through balanced inputs?


----------



## Youth

runeight said:


> It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.


 
  
 Does this mean that it's gonna take longer to burn in with SE headphones or what exactly?


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> Does this mean that it's gonna take longer to burn in with SE headphones or what exactly?


 


runeight said:


> Actually, I've been meaning to post about the burn in. Glad you asked.
> 
> On the big amps we always burn in for at least 50 hours before anything goes out. On the estat amps it's 100 hours.
> 
> ...


----------



## aqsw

Hey Guys ,
  
 A technical hook up question.
  
 If I was to hook up balanced out from my dac to balanced in on my LC, then SE RCA from my dac to SE RCA to my tube amp input. Then Se RCA tube amp output to
 SE RCA input on the LC (using my tube amp as a pre-amp). Is there any way to select which input I want to use (balanced or SE), and if not, I presume the balanced will be the 
 one selected automatically.
  
 If so, Does that mean I will have to unhook my balanced cables if I want to run it with the tube pre amp?
  
 Does this make sense to anybody?


----------



## Mr Rick

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys ,
> 
> A technical hook up question.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The LC has a switch on the front panel for OE or balanced inputs. And, an LED to indicate the input.


----------



## aqsw

mr rick said:


> The LC has a switch on the front panel for OE or balanced inputs. And, an LED to indicate the input.


 
 Perfect, I did not know this. I'm really excited now!!
  
 It will be real easy to compare the two setups.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Damn you People, I resisted the LC long enough, order placed. Hopefully will be here by Christmas for my bedroom rig.


----------



## sheldaze

wildcatsare1 said:


> Damn you People, I resisted the LC long enough, order placed. Hopefully will be here by Christmas for my bedroom rig.


 

 Glad you've jumped in


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sheldaze said:


> Glad you've jumped in :wink_face:




A Late Bloomer


----------



## sheldaze

wildcatsare1 said:


> A Late Bloomer


 

 Better late than never.
 It's a phenomenal amp, and it'll go great with your classic DACs.


----------



## doctorjazz

wildcatsare1 said:


> Damn you People, I resisted the LC long enough, order placed. Hopefully will be here by Christmas for my bedroom rig.




RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!!!


----------



## joeexp

Let's roast a Hugo! The Carbon is almost exactly twice the footprint of the Hugo….


----------



## mscott58

joeexp said:


> Let's roast a Hugo! The Carbon is almost exactly twice the footprint of the Hugo….


 
 How's the pairing?


----------



## DatGuy

excuse the poor lighting. im roasting a mojo too


----------



## runeight

Hey guys. I got my Carbon #00000 today. I like the finish on the front and back panels. Boxing was pretty good. Nice CA logo on the inside box and on top of the amp.
  
 It sounds amazing. It's SQ is weirdly similar to all the other amps I have lying around on my work benches. I'm not sure why this is the case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A couple of things though:
  
 1. Where the f%#$ is the power cord??
 2. There are no rubber feet so I gotta grab some somewhere. Kind of a PITA.
  
 Still, I think I'm going to like it.


----------



## digitalzed

runeight said:


> Hey guys. I got my Carbon #00000 today. I like the finish on the front and back panels. Boxing was pretty good. Nice CA logo on the inside box and on top of the amp.
> 
> It sounds amazing. It's SQ is weirdly similar to all the other amps I have lying around on my work benches. I'm not sure why this is the case.
> 
> ...


 

 Cavalli cutting corners again. Bet if you open it up it says Made in Kuala Lumpur. That Alex...


----------



## rmullins08

runeight said:


> Hey guys. I got my Carbon #00000 today. I like the finish on the front and back panels. Boxing was pretty good. Nice CA logo on the inside box and on top of the amp.
> 
> It sounds amazing. It's SQ is weirdly similar to all the other amps I have lying around on my work benches. I'm not sure why this is the case.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Way to rub it in.


----------



## mwilson

runeight said:


> 1. Where the f%#$ is the power cord??


 
 I'm glad none is included. I have an ever-increasing pile of them at home. And, since our company owns its datacenters, imagine what it's like at work


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> Hey guys. I got my Carbon #00000 today. I like the finish on the front and back panels. Boxing was pretty good. Nice CA logo on the inside box and on top of the amp.
> 
> It sounds amazing. It's SQ is weirdly similar to all the other amps I have lying around on my work benches. I'm not sure why this is the case. h34r:
> 
> ...




Nicely played Alex!


----------



## swspiers

wildcatsare1 said:


> Damn you People, I resisted the LC long enough, order placed. Hopefully will be here by Christmas for my bedroom rig.




It was only a matter of time!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

runeight said:


> Hey guys. I got my Carbon #00000 today. I like the finish on the front and back panels. Boxing was pretty good. Nice CA logo on the inside box and on top of the amp.
> 
> It sounds amazing. It's SQ is weirdly similar to all the other amps I have lying around on my work benches. I'm not sure why this is the case.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm actually kinda curious as to what fire hose/power cord you use.....
  
 And do you chant "I'm number 0!!!!! I'm number 0!!!!"?


----------



## digitalzed

Well, I received my Carbon today. Opened the box and it's only rubber feet and a power cord.


----------



## doofalb

runeight said:


> It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.


 
 Excuse my naive question: so it's better to burn in without any headphones than with SE headphone?


----------



## runeight

doofalb said:


> Excuse my naive question: so it's better to burn in without any headphones than with SE headphone?


 
  
 Correct. Probably not a big difference, but I think it's better.


----------



## doctorjazz

Very sad, we're getting goofed on by the manufacturer...:rolleyes:


----------



## doofalb

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## musiclvr

I finally received my LC today!!!! I am excited and disappointed at the same time though..... Let me explain: when @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) initially stated that SE burn-in is inferior to Balanced burn-in because "half of each channel will see different burn in conditions from the other half" my heart sank. At the moment I only own SE headphones so I do not want to burn-in/use my new LC which I waited a considerable amount of time for just to mess with the end result by burning it in incorrectly. Yes I knew that Balanced out is superior as far sound quality goes but I didn't know that using the LC SE headphone output only could affect the condition of each channels integrity. So my LC will sit unopened on my shelf until I can afford a balanced headphone to properly burn in the LC and then enjoy it. I guess I'm a stickler for the details. I will continue to read the LC threads religiously as I have done for the last 8 months while I was waiting for my LC as I will be interested in hearing which Balanced headphones pair best with the LC. Cheers and Happy listening to all who have received their LC so far!!!!


----------



## mscott58

musiclvr said:


> I finally received my LC today!!!! I am excited and disappointed at the same time though..... Let me explain: when @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) initially stated that SE burn-in is inferior to Balanced burn-in because "half of each channel will see different burn in conditions from the other half" my heart sank. At the moment I only own SE headphones so I do not want to burn-in/use my new LC which I waited a considerable amount of time for just to mess with the end result by burning it in incorrectly. Yes I knew that Balanced out is superior as far sound quality goes but I didn't know that using the LC SE headphone output only could affect the condition of each channels integrity. So my LC will sit unopened on my shelf until I can afford a balanced headphone to properly burn in the LC and then enjoy it. I guess I'm a stickler for the details. I will continue to read the LC threads religiously as I have done for the last 8 months while I was waiting for my LC as I will be interested in hearing which Balanced headphones pair best with the LC. Cheers and Happy listening to all who have received their LC so far!!!!




Couldn't you just burn it in without HP's plugged in like Alex posted about earlier? Cheers


----------



## bearFNF

mscott58 said:


> Couldn't you just burn it in without HP's plugged in like Alex posted about earlier? Cheers


 

 Like he said...ninja'd again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Here's Alex post on it.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3990#post_12084148


----------



## Wildcatsare1

All the Cool Kids are getting one, sooo if DrJazzconquistadorswiper sheldaze jumped off a bridge....I'd be asking if the water is warm


----------



## musiclvr

mscott58 said:


> Couldn't you just burn it in without HP's plugged in like Alex posted about earlier? Cheers



I am considering that alternative. We'll see how much longer I can hold out for. At this point in the game, I was going to get a balanced Dac but now I am going to be shopping for a balanced headphone as I think that will definitely play to the LC's strengths over a better Dac imho.


----------



## DecentLevi

@musiclvr looking at your headphone inventory it seems you have quite a few that can be replaced with a balanced cable especially your AKGs. Also there are several members who are able to custom recable your 'can to balanced cable, even if it doesn't have a removable cable. Send me an IM if you need to find one.


----------



## joeexp

musiclvr said:


> I finally received my LC today!!!! I am excited and disappointed at the same time though..... Let me explain: when @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) initially stated that SE burn-in is inferior to Balanced burn-in because "half of each channel will see different burn in conditions from the other half" my heart sank. At the moment I only own SE headphones so I do not want to burn-in/use my new LC which I waited a considerable amount of time for just to mess with the end result by burning it in incorrectly. Yes I knew that Balanced out is superior as far sound quality goes but I didn't know that using the LC SE headphone output only could affect the condition of each channels integrity. So my LC will sit unopened on my shelf until I can afford a balanced headphone to properly burn in the LC and then enjoy it. I guess I'm a stickler for the details. I will continue to read the LC threads religiously as I have done for the last 8 months while I was waiting for my LC as I will be interested in hearing which Balanced headphones pair best with the LC. Cheers and Happy listening to all who have received their LC so far!!!!


 

 Why doesn't anybody bother to read the Manual any more! 
 It gives clear instructions about Amp Break-In - Page 3 - lol
  
 http://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


----------



## Luckbad

musiclvr said:


> I finally received my LC today!!!! I am excited and disappointed at the same time though..... Let me explain: when @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) initially stated that SE burn-in is inferior to Balanced burn-in because "half of each channel will see different burn in conditions from the other half" my heart sank. At the moment I only own SE headphones so I do not want to burn-in/use my new LC which I waited a considerable amount of time for just to mess with the end result by burning it in incorrectly. Yes I knew that Balanced out is superior as far sound quality goes but I didn't know that using the LC SE headphone output only could affect the condition of each channels integrity. So my LC will sit unopened on my shelf until I can afford a balanced headphone to properly burn in the LC and then enjoy it. I guess I'm a stickler for the details. I will continue to read the LC threads religiously as I have done for the last 8 months while I was waiting for my LC as I will be interested in hearing which Balanced headphones pair best with the LC. Cheers and Happy listening to all who have received their LC so far!!!!


 
  
*Amplifier Break-In*
 Your Liquid Carbon® amplifier has been tested before leaving the factory, but has very few hours on it. Most amplifiers need at least 150 hours of continuous use, playing music, to reach their full sound signatures. We recommend about the same for the Liquid Carbon®.
  
 You can, when you’re not listening, you leave the amp on continuously with your source in loop mode for enough hours to reach the 150 hour point. It is not necessary to leave headphones attached. In fact, we recommend that you disconnect your headphones when not listening during this break-in period.
  
 At this point - and not before this point – will the amplifier reach the level of performance enabling you to accurately judge its sound quality and to determine whether it meets your critical listening standard.
  
 Before you judge the sound quality of the amp please follow this procedure!


----------



## buke9

Arggh another week or more this just sucks. I think all you that have gotten yours should show solidarity with us that have are unfortunate wait and stop saying how great it is


----------



## doctorjazz

wildcatsare1 said:


> All the Cool Kids are getting one, sooo if DrJazzconquistadorswiper sheldaze jumped off a bridge....I'd be asking if the water is warm




The water is REALLY nice


----------



## Mr Rick

joeexp said:


> Why doesn't anybody bother to read the Manual any more!
> It gives clear instructions about Amp Break-In - Page 3 - lol
> 
> http://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


 
  
 Fortunately for me, I don't subscribe to break-in / burn-in. 
  
 I've been enjoying listening to my LC since initial turn-on, on Saturday.


----------



## musiclvr

@DecentLevi @joeexp @Luckbad thank you for your quick responses and help as it is appreciated. I think I will get one of my headphones recabled as a quicker and more affordable alternative to purchasing a totl balanced headphone just yet. Thanks again for the advice and info.


----------



## dpump

musiclvr said:


> @DecentLevi @joeexp @Luckbad thank you for your quick responses and help as it is appreciated. I think I will get one of my headphones recabled as a quicker and more affordable alternative to purchasing a totl balanced headphone just yet. Thanks again for the advice and info.


 
 You're AKG 702 and 712 cannot be easily converted to balanced, as the cable has 3-wires, not the necessary 4-wires. As stated in the LC manual, you can't plug in a balanced connector where the grounds are common as you will damage the amp. The Grado RS-1i could easily be converted to balanced as it has a separate 2-wire connection to each ear cup. Any other phone you have that has a separate wire to each ear cup can also most likely be converted to balanced. I don't know where you live but I am in North Carolina and could convert your Grado to balanced if that would work for you.


----------



## musiclvr

dpump said:


> You're AKG 702 and 712 cannot be easily converted to balanced, as the cable has 3-wires, not the necessary 4-wires. As stated in the LC manual, you can't plug in a balanced connector where the grounds are common as you will damage the amp. The Grado RS-1i could easily be converted to balanced as it has a separate 2-wire connection to each ear cup. Any other phone you have that has a separate wire to each ear cup can also most likely be converted to balanced. I don't know where you live but I am in North Carolina and could convert your Grado to balanced if that would work for you.


 Thank you kindly for offering your help @dpump, I sincerely appreciate it. I thought about having that done to my Grado's a few times but I think I gonna try to see if I can get my K712 recabled from the soldering point of each driver on down. I really like their comfort over the Grados too and this is important to me as I anticipate many a long hour listening sessions with my LC. I am hoping that I can make it to a Head-if meet in AZ sometime as I am from Phoenix, AZ.


----------



## conquerator2

wildcatsare1 said:


> All the Cool Kids are getting one, sooo if DrJazzconquistadorswiper sheldaze jumped off a bridge....I'd be asking if the water is warm



Conqui- huh?!
I am waiting my turn! 
Have my eyes on the price... But my wallet needs to regenerate :/


----------



## KG Jag

The link to the manual is not working.


----------



## digitalzed

kg jag said:


> The link to the manual is not working.


 
 http://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


----------



## KG Jag

digitalzed said:


> kg jag said:
> 
> 
> > The link to the manual is not working.
> ...


 

 Thanks--that is a different link than provided on the card that comes with the LC.


----------



## Cardiiiii

I'm assuming there is a reason Alex didn't order 500 front & back plates in one go. But man the end product looks good.


----------



## x RELIC x

My guess is they broke the CNC machine trying to get them out as fast as possible. :blink:


----------



## defbear

musiclvr said:


> Thank you kindly for offering your help @dpump, I sincerely appreciate it. I thought about having that done to my Grado's a few times but I think I gonna try to see if I can get my K712 recabled from the soldering point of each driver on down. I really like their comfort over the Grados too and this is important to me as I anticipate many a long hour listening sessions with my LC. I am hoping that I can make it to a Head-if meet in AZ sometime as I am from Phoenix, AZ.


If your cable contains 4 wires, 2 wires for each cup and end in a 1/4 inch plug, then the cable can be cut. A male 4 pin xlr is used on the headphone side and a female 4 pin xlr adapter on the 1/4 plug section. Makes it simple to go back and forth. Surfcables.com did my $140.00 Sennheiser hd598's.


----------



## purk

defbear said:


> If your cable contains 4 wires, 2 wires for each cup and end in a 1/4 inch plug, then the cable can be cut. A male 4 pin xlr is used on the headphone side and a female 4 pin xlr adapter on the 1/4 plug section. Makes it simple to go back and forth. Surfcables.com did my $140.00 Sennheiser hd598's.


 
 Better yet, you can learn how to do it yourself.  Neutrik 4-pin XLR is less than 7 dollars each and very easy to solder.


----------



## scanspeakman1

musiclvr said:


> I finally received my LC today!!!! I am excited and disappointed at the same time though..... Let me explain: when @runeight (Dr. Cavalli) initially stated that SE burn-in is inferior to Balanced burn-in because "half of each channel will see different burn in conditions from the other half" my heart sank. At the moment I only own SE headphones so I do not want to burn-in/use my new LC which I waited a considerable amount of time for just to mess with the end result by burning it in incorrectly. Yes I knew that Balanced out is superior as far sound quality goes but I didn't know that using the LC SE headphone output only could affect the condition of each channels integrity. So my LC will sit unopened on my shelf until I can afford a balanced headphone to properly burn in the LC and then enjoy it. I guess I'm a stickler for the details. I will continue to read the LC threads religiously as I have done for the last 8 months while I was waiting for my LC as I will be interested in hearing which Balanced headphones pair best with the LC. Cheers and Happy listening to all who have received their LC so far!!!!


 

 Let's be real......the effect will be in the proverbial 0,00000001% range. You seem to be afraid your LC will be "deformed" bij using it in SE mode. There might be a difference but you probably wont hear it and when you do the effect will be so tiny you want to kick yourself for leaving the LC on the shelf for so long and not enjoying it.....
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## scanspeakman1

mr rick said:


> Fortunately for me, I don't subscribe to break-in / burn-in.
> 
> I've been enjoying listening to my LC since initial turn-on, on Saturday.


 
  
 My point exactly...
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## scanspeakman1

defbear said:


> If your cable contains 4 wires, 2 wires for each cup and end in a 1/4 inch plug, then the cable can be cut. A male 4 pin xlr is used on the headphone side and a female 4 pin xlr adapter on the 1/4 plug section. Makes it simple to go back and forth. Surfcables.com did my $140.00 Sennheiser hd598's.


 
  
 Exactly what I did to my MrSpeakers Ether. Stange feeling cutting up the no-so-cheap DUM-cable but now I can use it in balanced mode and I have two short converter cables from 4-pin XLR to 6,3mm or 3,5mm jack.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## DigitalFreak

Got my shopping notice yesterday, my Carbon is on its way


----------



## nanoevil

My folks just sent me a message that my LC is now with them!!! happy times!!! Serial 102 is now delivered 
  
 Can't wait when I arrive in the US on Sat. to try it out


----------



## weitn

FedEx tracking shows my LC has been delivered to my home but I won't be back till next Monday. bummer


----------



## defbear

weitn said:


> FedEx tracking shows my LC has been delivered to my home but I won't be back till next Monday. bummer


Where's your porch?


----------



## Clemmaster

scanspeakman1 said:


> Let's be real......the effect will be in the proverbial 0,00000001% range. You seem to be afraid your LC will be "deformed" bij using it in SE mode. There might be a difference but you probably wont hear it and when you do the effect will be so tiny you want to kick yourself for leaving the LC on the shelf for so long and not enjoying it.....
> 
> Scanspeakman


 
  
 I beg to differ.
  
 While I'm usually laughing when I read things like "it completely transformed after breaking the 250 hour mark", I can definitely confirm that the LC requires some time to settle.
  
 it was glarey in the upper mid / lower treble region with the HE-560 and very flat sounding (read. 2D) on Monday night. Yesterday was much improved. Still a bit shouty, but less annoying.
  
 The 3D effect developed, but it is still a forward sounding amp. The singer is in your face and the sound is enveloping. I usually don't like this kind of presentation; I rather have the sound as much as possible in front of me. I know some people believe it's not relevant with headphones, but some systems manage just that. For some reason, it is less of an issue with the Cavalli amps I tried (which all have this kind of presentation). There's this sense of "being there" that makes it up for it.
  
 Plus, it's still a handsome little amp!


----------



## doctorjazz

Boy, if it's anything less than the second coming when I get it, I'm going to be disappointed!


----------



## swspiers

wildcatsare1 said:


> All the Cool Kids are getting one, sooo if @DrJazz@conquistador@swiper @sheldaze jumped off a bridge....I'd be asking if the water is warm


 
 All kidding aside, a lot of the folk I really respect jumped on this, so yeah, it had A LOT to do with my decision.
  
 And now you're here, the thread gets more fun!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Oh, mine was just delivered.  Now time to fake an illness and go home....


----------



## Youth

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh, mine was just delivered.  Now time to fake an illness and go home....


 
  
 Curious to hear your impressions with the HD650.


----------



## DigitalFreak

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh, mine was just delivered.  Now time to fake an illness and go home....




Tell your boss you have an appointment with a plastic surgeon. Considering your handle is buttuglyjeff they would probably let you go.


----------



## weitn

defbear said:


> Where's your porch?


 

 Good try. I am not letting anyone here know my address.


----------



## doctorjazz

Wouldn't trust these Head-Fi'ers any further than I can throw them!


----------



## weitn

I live in a safe/peaceful/good neighborhood. Never lost any packages. If my package is missing next Monday, it must be one of you guys!


----------



## reddog

My Liquid Carbon should be delivered tomorrow afternoon. I will slowly burn it in for the required 200 hours.


----------



## MattTCG

How about LC paired with the hd800? Good, bad , great....?


----------



## defbear

matttcg said:


> How about LC paired with the hd800? Good, bad , great....?


Do a search on my posts. The hd800's are fabulous with the LC


----------



## Dave74

Damn Canadian dollar
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I miss the days when we were on par with the U.S. dollar.  I just placed an order for the L.C. and it was over $900 CND with shipping. 
  
 The volume on my Chord Hugo seems to jump up at times when I turn the volume down so this was a good excuse to order the Carbon as a volume control lol.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.   I really should send it away while it is under warranty, but  I already had a Hugo replaced due to a clicking and buzzing noise when it was new.  This one has been doing this since new as well and I really didn't want them to think I am being picky.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

swspiers said:


> All kidding aside, a lot of the folk I really respect jumped on this, so yeah, it had A LOT to do with my decision.
> 
> And now you're here, the thread gets more fun!




Thank you Sir, I hope the single life is treating you well, how is grad school going? 

Once I read Arly's Review and the synergy with Audeze my will power crumbled. Plus, as you said lots of "ears I trust" are involved. Also, Dan (MrSpeakers) uses on to demo with, and it sounds incredible.


----------



## Youth

reddog said:


> My Liquid Carbon should be delivered tomorrow afternoon. I will slowly burn it in for the required 200 hours.


 
  
 I hope you can do a little comparrison to with the Liquid Glass


----------



## bearFNF

matttcg said:


> How about LC paired with the hd800? Good, bad , great....?


 

 My audition with my HD800s was one of the driving factors in buying it, so , yeah, it sounds great with them, IMHO


----------



## MattTCG

bearfnf said:


> My audition with my HD800s was one of the driving factors in buying it, so , yeah, it sounds great with them, IMHO


 
  
 That's what I needed. Thanks!


----------



## Dave74

Does anyone have any idea how many Liquid Carbons have been sold?  I am just wondering if they are near the 500 limit as my order no. is 1152, so I am wondering if it will still get filled.   
  
 Thanks.
 Dave.


----------



## reddog

youth said:


> I hope you can do a little comparrison to with the Liquid Glass



I hope to compare the Liquid Carbon to the Crimson and the Glass. I still can not believe how good the Glass sounds. The Glass brings tears to my eyes, its that good .


----------



## doctorjazz

dave74 said:


> Does anyone have any idea how many Liquid Carbons have been sold?  I am just wondering if they are near the 500 limit as my order no. is 1152, so I am wondering if it will still get filled.
> 
> Thanks.
> Dave.




If they took the order, I'm sure it will be filled. Don't think they reached the 500 magic number yet, but I don't think there's any information on how far they are.


----------



## Dave74

doctorjazz said:


> If they took the order, I'm sure it will be filled. Don't think they reached the 500 magic number yet, but I don't think there's any information on how far they are.


 

 Yes, I'm hoping it will be filled.  I was just thinking that maybe they were still taking orders in case others were to cancel.  It doesn't sound like they have hit 500 yet, but it is probably less likely that people ordering later on will have cancelled or will cancel, especially now that they are shipping. 
  
 Thanks. 
 Dave.


----------



## swspiers

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thank you Sir, I hope the single life is treating you well, how is grad school going?
> 
> Once I read Arly's Review and the synergy with Audeze my will power crumbled. Plus, as you said lots of "ears I trust" are involved. Also, Dan (MrSpeakers) uses on to demo with, and it sounds incredible.


 
 Single life- not so single, but that's as off-topic as I can get.  But the divorce is still happening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Grad School- almost at the halfway point.
  
 Headphone time- severely suffering.  I think the LC is just what my Alpha Primes need.  I'm pretty sure I will FIND TIME to spend some quality time with them, and I'm really interested to hear how the Benchmark interacts with it as well.  I have balanced cables and interconnects waiting.  I even bought a ridiculous Pangea power cord, but I had to turn in my Objectivist card. Guess I'm no longer a member!


----------



## doctorjazz

swspiers said:


> wildcatsare1 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Sir, I hope the single life is treating you well, how is grad school going?
> ...




Don't get what it really means to be an "objectionist"...for $25-50 you can hear for yourself if it makes any difference (won't tell you what happens with $500 cords, but even just hearing SOME difference would make a difference). Seems to me, being an "objectionist" (not a typo), or "scientific", as practiced on Head Fi, means NOT doing the basic thing scientists do, experimenting (listening), but just taking it on face value that there is NO DIFFERENCE in all these gears.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

swspiers said:


> Single life- not so single, but that's as off-topic as I can get.  But the divorce is still happening
> 
> Grad School- almost at the halfway point.
> 
> Headphone time- severely suffering.  I think the LC is just what my Alpha Primes need.  I'm pretty sure I will FIND TIME to spend some quality time with them, and I'm really interested to hear how the Benchmark interacts with it as well.  I have balanced cables and interconnects waiting.  I even bought a ridiculous Pangea power cord, but I had to turn in my Objectivist card. Guess I'm no longer a member!




You bought a Pangea Power Cable, welcome to the Dark Side Luke! I have caught a bit of grief for my large power cables at meets. 

I am thinking the LC will be an excellent match for your Primes. It sounded very good with the Ethers at the last Meet I made.


----------



## BRCMRGN

I bought a moderately priced Pangea power cord for the LC. but it's too stiff and heavy to use with a light amp like the LC. It's now on the Stealth DC-1 and the Stealth power cord is on the LC.


----------



## swspiers

brcmrgn said:


> I bought a moderately priced Pangea power cord for the LC. but it's too stiff and heavy to use with a light amp like the LC. It's now on the Stealth DC-1 and the Stealth power cord is on the LC.


 
 +1000
  
 the pangea will the switched to the Sunfire.  thanks for the heads up!!!


----------



## pippen99

Order #462 serial #046 arrived 3:40 CT at its destination.  Unboxed and hooked up to a Vega.  Commencing burn-in through LCD-X.  Let the party begin!!


----------



## DecentLevi

Liquid Carbon        +                        Vega                       =
       
  
  
 And how does that sound?


----------



## doctorjazz

Hoping to get the LC tomorrow, delivery came today, but no one there to receive it,


----------



## Barry S

doctorjazz said:


> Hoping to get the LC tomorrow, delivery came today, but no one there to receive it,


 

 I have my FEDEX deliveries held for pickup--you can route to any FEDEX location.


----------



## doctorjazz

barry s said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Hoping to get the LC tomorrow, delivery came today, but no one there to receive it,
> ...




Hmm, get home late tonight, maybe I'll pick it up tomorrow if the delivery doesn't work out.


----------



## pippen99

decentlevi said:


> Liquid Carbon        +                        Vega                       =
> 
> 
> 
> And how does that sound​


 
 Just about like that!  The first time I heard the LC it was playing through an Auralic Vega.  Dan Clark was demoing the ETHER with that combo among other equipment.  I knew this combination worked for my ears so I bought a Vega while I was waiting for the LC.  According to the guidelines established in the LC/DAC thread the Vega was overkill but it works for me!


----------



## aqsw

pippen99 said:


> Just about like that!  The first time I heard the LC it was playing through an Auralic Vega.  Dan Clark was demoing the ETHER with that combo among other equipment.  I knew this combination worked for my ears so I bought a Vega while I was waiting for the LC.  According to the guidelines established in the LC/DAC thread the Vega was overkill but it works for me!




Never overkill on a quality dac. It will just make it better. Dan knows what he is doing!
Congrats on a great system!


----------



## buke9

dave74 said:


> Yes, I'm hoping it will be filled.  I was just thinking that maybe they were still taking orders in case others were to cancel.  It doesn't sound like they have hit 500 yet, but it is probably less likely that people ordering later on will have cancelled or will cancel, especially now that they are shipping.
> 
> Thanks.
> Dave.


 
 They are longer shipping there has been a delay and no idea when the rest will ship.


----------



## Serenitty

#064 is being enjoyed now... Started with some Jesse Cook and am now into pink Floyd... 

Very nice so far... Ak120ii to LC to Beyer T1's...


----------



## Serenitty

Opinion question:

I have the parts to convert my T1's to 4pin Xlr, how badly do you think that will hurt the resale? I'm planning on Ether C's by Christmas and don't want to cut the cord if it's going to tank the resale. 

Though as good as this sounds right now I don't know why I need the ethers... It's making me very curious about the balanced connection..


----------



## musiclvr

serenitty said:


> #064 is being enjoyed now... Started with some Jesse Cook and am now into pink Floyd...
> 
> Very nice so far... Ak120ii to LC to Beyer T1's...



How do the T1's sound with the LC?? I am really thinking hard about buying the T1(1st gen) and getting the balanced cable for it. Any of your impressions will help. Thank you kindly.


----------



## Peridot

pippen99 said:


> Just about like that!  The first time I heard the LC it was playing through an Auralic Vega.  Dan Clark was demoing the ETHER with that combo among other equipment.  I knew this combination worked for my ears so I bought a Vega while I was waiting for the LC.  According to the guidelines established in the LC/DAC thread the Vega was overkill but it works for me!


 
  
 Could you point me towards that LC/DAC thread? Thanks.


----------



## J4MES

peridot said:


> Could you point me towards that LC/DAC thread? Thanks.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go


----------



## Peridot

j4mes said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go


 
  
 Thanks for that, although I suspect that reading it may end up costing me money


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

serenitty said:


> Opinion question:
> 
> I have the parts to convert my T1's to 4pin Xlr, how badly do you think that will hurt the resale? I'm planning on Ether C's by Christmas and don't want to cut the cord if it's going to tank the resale.
> 
> Though as good as this sounds right now I don't know why I need the ethers... It's making me very curious about the balanced connection..


 
  
 You could cut the cord 8" or so from the end and make a 4 pin XLR to 1/4" to adapt back and forth...


----------



## Serenitty

buttuglyjeff said:


> You could cut the cord 8" or so from the end and make a 4 pin XLR to 1/4" to adapt back and forth...


 

 That's what I have the parts waiting for in my basement.  Since April...  I was just wondering what people thought this would do to the value of the T1's in the classifieds.  Assuming I'm so blown away by the Ether C's with the LC that I want to sell the T1's.


----------



## Serenitty

musiclvr said:


> How do the T1's sound with the LC?? I am really thinking hard about buying the T1(1st gen) and getting the balanced cable for it. Any of your impressions will help. Thank you kindly.


 

 I don't have anything on hand to compare it to, but they sound great.  I've only got about 2-3 hours in so far, Jesse Cook, Pink Floyd the wall, and Diana Krall.  More must be explored tonight.
  
 New toys...


----------



## musiclvr

serenitty said:


> I don't have anything on hand to compare it to, but they sound great.  I've only got about 2-3 hours in so far, Jesse Cook, Pink Floyd the wall, and Diana Krall.  More must be explored tonight.
> 
> New toys...



Well, please do post as the burn-in process progresses. BTW You are naming some the artists I really enjoy to listen to. My top three favorite genres are Jazz, singer/songwriter, and EDM. I have been burnimg in my LC for about 24 hours now and I don't habe a balanced headphone to listen to yet your impressions will help steer my poor broken wallet! Hahaha


----------



## Serenitty

musiclvr said:


> Well, please do post as the burn-in process progresses. BTW You are naming some the artists I really enjoy to listen to. My top three favorite genres are Jazz, singer/songwriter, and EDM. I have been burnimg in my LC for about 24 hours now and I don't habe a balanced headphone to listen to yet your impressions will help steer my poor broken wallet! Hahaha


 

 Well, the plan is for some Rodrigo & gabriela tonight.  The problem is listening to different music in little bites I'm not sure I'm going to hear much in the way of differences.  I really need to get some "ears off" burn in going and see if I hear anything there.
  
 To be honest though, I was very pleased last night, I couldn't hear anything "wrong" with what I was listening to.  I don't even think that I have buyers need to justify since the money was spent so long ago, it really doesn't feel like a "I just spent $615 on this so it better sound good" purchase. 
  
 If I notice any changes I'll update though.  I think I'm going to go ahead and put the balanced connector on my T1's anyway.  The 2nd generation came out recently and the resale on my gen 1's is probably in the toilet anyway...


----------



## doctorjazz

Hopefully I get it today (no one home when they came yesterday, so they took it away, wah wah wah), have a Norne balanced cable for my HE-1000 waiting for the LC (got it with single end, balanced for LC and balanced for Pono, haven't had the opportunity to use the LC balalced yet). Hope they leave it...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

serenitty said:


> That's what I have the parts waiting for in my basement.  Since April...  I was just wondering what people thought this would do to the value of the T1's in the classifieds.  Assuming I'm so blown away by the Ether C's with the LC that I want to sell the T1's.


 
  
 You would be making usable to more people, in my useless opinion.  Usually that means it has more value...


----------



## jelt2359

Got mine. Like it a lot. Well done Cavalli!


----------



## runeight

Hello folks. A problem update on the first batch.
  
 At least some of the packages that went out USPS have something wrong in the address and are being returned to sender. I don't know why this is happening and have contacted the fulfillment people to get to the bottom of it.
  
 But, if you are overseas and asked for USPS shipping and you get a "undeliverable" notice please contact us right away.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## aqsw

runeight said:


> Hello folks. A problem update on the first batch.
> 
> At least some of the packages that went out USPS have something wrong in the address and are being returned to sender. I don't know why this is happening and have contacted the fulfillment people to get to the bottom of it.
> 
> ...




Darn,
I'm one of the unlucky ones.


----------



## x RELIC x

aqsw said:


> Darn,
> I'm one of the unlucky ones.




Even to Canada? I wonder if I can change my shipping to FedEx before it ships?


----------



## DigitalFreak

I'm one of the unlucky ones too but tracking shows it just departed from Austin Texas and its on route so I'm guessing what ever was wrong has been corrected


----------



## runeight

aqsw said:


> Darn,
> I'm one of the unlucky ones.


 
  
 Yes, this really sucks. The delays on the metal parts were bad, but not unexpected for a project like this. But the USPS shipping problems are simply a screw up on the part of the fulfillment team. We are working on it, but the timing now is largely gated by transit times through the USPS system.


----------



## aqsw

digitalfreak said:


> I'm one of the unlucky ones too but tracking shows it just departed from Austin Texas and its on route so I'm guessing what ever was wrong has been corrected




I have the ssme info.
Thanks


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Guessing there's gonna be at the least, a two week delay then? We already lost a bit of time due to the parts being unavailable all of the week of the 16th. If the parts come in mid next week, the amps still have to assembled, tested and boxed for transit so... I'm guessing shipments resume first week of Dec. at the earliest?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

digitalfreak said:


> I'm one of the unlucky ones too but tracking shows it just departed from Austin Texas and its on route so I'm guessing what ever was wrong has been corrected


 
  
  
 Awww, that's a real bummer "Mr free preview"..........


----------



## defbear

I will be posting over in the Liquid Carbon Impressions thread where all of us new LC owners, The First Batch Bunch, are posting our listening impressions.


----------



## aamefford

I miss planned and find myself ampless. I see a Chang of plans with a semi planned later purchase happening next week, and a delay on a headphone purchase. Sigh… first world problems …


----------



## sahmen

aamefford said:


> I miss planned and find myself ampless. I see a Chang of plans with a semi planned later purchase happening next week, and a delay on a headphone purchase. Sigh… first world problems …


 
 I could sell you my Gustard H10, if you're desperate to have an amp, while you wait
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I got it from Massdrop and it has been sitting by idle doing nothing ever since, because the NFB1amp also "happened" around the same time, and the rest, as they say, is history.  Now I have a perfectly great, and mint Gustard H10 sitting idly on a desk, and I have not even had the time to put it up for sale yet...  My LC is also coming, and I do not feel like owning 3 desktop amps at the same time, so the Gustard must definitely be found a new home.
  
 Oops, this is waaaaay off topic, so let me stop right now before it gets any worse.


----------



## doctorjazz

So, Fed-Ex delivered my LC Thursday about noon, no one home, took it back. Delivered it about the same time yesterday, nobody home, took it with them. So, today, it is now almost 4PM, no Fed-Ex yet, sitting around, don't even want to put on headphones because I'm afraid I'll miss them if they come to the door, Arghghghghghghghghg!!!!

:mad:


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> So, Fed-Ex delivered my LC Thursday about noon, no one home, took it back. Delivered it about the same time yesterday, nobody home, took it with them. So, today, it is now almost 4PM, no Fed-Ex yet, sitting around, don't even want to put on headphones because I'm afraid I'll miss them if they come to the door, Arghghghghghghghghg!!!!


 

 Will they deliver on Saturday? Does the tracking number show out for delivery?


----------



## buke9

jamato8 said:


> Will they deliver on Saturday? Does the tracking number show out for delivery?


 
 Fed Ex delivers on Saturday.


----------



## doctorjazz

The tracking site says it's on the truck, to be delivered by the end of today. You can't speak to a person, this horrible computerized woman voice answers the phone, with useless help.


----------



## Serenitty

Got my t1's setup with the balanced connector and made a pigtail converter.


----------



## doctorjazz

Got a nice album keeping me company on the turntable, Sonny Clark 'Blues in the Night"


----------



## doctorjazz

Y'know, speakers ain't half bad...


----------



## sahmen

doctorjazz said:


> Y'know, speakers ain't half bad...


 
 Ya think??


----------



## doctorjazz

sahmen said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Y'know, speakers ain't half bad...
> ...




I know it seems foolish, but must spend 90+% of my time listening through headphones. Between the "tyrrany of the sweet spot", and a family who have to study, watch TV, listen to what they want, don't like my dissonant jazz or Indie stuff blasting, and the comfort of lying down in my bed with the MicroZOTL2 and HE-1000, I don't get to the big rig all that often. Today, with me stuck, and the ladies out at the mall, time to get reacquainted...


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> I know it seems foolish, but must spend 90+% of my time listening through headphones. Between the "tyrrany of the sweet spot", and a family who have to study, watch TV, listen to what they want, don't like my dissonant jazz or Indie stuff blasting, and the comfort of lying down in my bed with the MicroZOTL2 and HE-1000, I don't get to the big rig all that often. Today, with me stuck, and the ladies out at the mall, time to get reacquainted...


 

 Well it is almost 7PM there. Should show up soon?


----------



## bearFNF

jamato8 said:


> Well it is almost 7PM there. Should show up soon?


 

 Um, it almost 5pm in Jersey now.  did it come yet??


doctorjazz said:


> I know it seems foolish, but must spend 90+% of my time listening through headphones. Between the "tyrrany of the sweet spot", and a family who have to study, watch TV, listen to what they want, don't like my dissonant jazz or Indie stuff blasting, and the comfort of lying down in my bed with the MicroZOTL2 and HE-1000, I don't get to the big rig all that often. Today, with me stuck, and the ladies out at the mall, time to get reacquainted...


----------



## doctorjazz

Not yet, 4:45 PM right now, they say Saturday all day on the tracking site, not sure how long that is. Wish they would get here so I could get some lunch...
Moved on to Spraynard-"Mable", some indie, noisy, but near the front door so I can hear the door bell...(Sturgill Simpson on deck).




jamato8 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I know it seems foolish, but must spend 90+% of my time listening through headphones. Between the "tyrrany of the sweet spot", and a family who have to study, watch TV, listen to what they want, don't like my dissonant jazz or Indie stuff blasting, and the comfort of lying down in my bed with the MicroZOTL2 and HE-1000, I don't get to the big rig all that often. Today, with me stuck, and the ladies out at the mall, time to get reacquainted...
> ...


----------



## doctorjazz

LIke this Spraynard...remind me of Green Day or All Time Low, a bit less polished, vocals more raw, music a bit more varied and interesting...(not great recording, though, edgy, even on the vinyl, but tolerable).


----------



## pippen99

doctorjazz said:


> Not yet, 4:45 PM right now, they say Saturday all day on the tracking site, not sure how long that is. Wish they would get here so I could get some lunch...
> Moved on to Spraynard-"Mable", some indie, noisy, but near the front door so I can hear the door bell...(Sturgill Simpson on deck).


 
 Sometimes it seems like it's our fate to be at the end of the delivery route.  Mine didn't show up until nearly 4 P.M.


----------



## bearFNF

That and, for me,  the day I go home to meet them at their "normal" time they change their route...go figure.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good thing about where live is that there are only two or three trucks and I know about where they are at certain times of day. Heck I even have a couple of them flagging me down if they see me drive by.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That being said I had to drive three hours in a blizzard to Fargo to pick-up my 009's, my fault for fat fingering the zip code.


----------



## doctorjazz

Munching on granola, do like this Sturgill Simpson "Metamodern Sounds in Country Music" LP, catching up with vinyl, family is on the way home now, though, so volume goes down, still no LC (5:20 PM, tracking site still says it's to be delivered today). Are worse fates out there, to be sure...


----------



## sahmen

doctorjazz said:


> Munching on granola, do like this Sturgill Simpson "Metamodern Sounds in Country Music" LP, catching up with vinyl, family is on the way home now, though, so volume goes down, still no LC (5:20 PM, tracking site still says it's to be delivered today). Are worse fates out there, to be sure...


 
 5.31pm, here, and counting... I was expecting you to say "Finally...!"  and "Whew"... or something along those lines...  However, for what it's worth,  I can relate, and truly sympathize...  Hopefully, it won't be too long from now...


----------



## AustinValentine

doctorjazz said:


> Munching on granola, do like this Sturgill Simpson "Metamodern Sounds in Country Music" LP, catching up with vinyl, family is on the way home now, though, so volume goes down, still no LC (5:20 PM, tracking site still says it's to be delivered today). Are worse fates out there, to be sure...


 
  
 Don't. Use. The. Bathroom. 
  
 (They always buzz when I'm in the bathroom.)


----------



## Cardiiiii

Quick question about the burn in process, remember Alex saying something about using it in balanced mode. Did he mean the input has to be balanced, i.e. XLR and not RCA or was he referring to just the output, i.e. headphones connected to the 4-pin XLR and not the SE out? Also, in the manual it says the headphones don't need to be connected during the burn in process, so how exactly do you go about it? I haven't received mine yet, just an eager beaver reading the manual!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

cardiiiii said:


> Quick question about the burn in process, remember Alex saying something about using it in balanced mode. Did he mean the input has to be balanced, i.e. XLR and not RCA or was he referring to just the output, i.e. headphones connected to the 4-pin XLR and not the SE out? Also, in the manual it says the headphones don't need to be connected during the burn in process, so how exactly do you go about it? I haven't received mine yet, just an eager beaver reading the manual!


 
  
 Have balanced headphones plugged in.  Don't worry about the inputs...


----------



## Cardiiiii

buttuglyjeff said:


> Have balanced headphones plugged in.  Don't worry about the inputs...


 
 Thanks!


----------



## bearFNF

cardiiiii said:


> Quick question about the burn in process, remember Alex saying something about using it in balanced mode. Did he mean the input has to be balanced, i.e. XLR and not RCA or was he referring to just the output, i.e. headphones connected to the 4-pin XLR and not the SE out? Also, in the manual it says the headphones don't need to be connected during the burn in process, so how exactly do you go about it? I haven't received mine yet, just an eager beaver reading the manual!


 
 The input should not matter due to the phase splitter.
 The manual recommends disconnecting the headphones when you are not listening to the amp during the break-in period.
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> Have balanced headphones plugged in.  Don't worry about the inputs...


----------



## doctorjazz

Keeping busy (still no LC...)


(don't believe I did misunderstand, tracking site says "all day Saturday).


----------



## doctorjazz

And, 5:50 PM, IT HAS ARRIVED! (time for lunch :rolleyes::rolleyes: )


----------



## Peridot

doctorjazz said:


> And, 5:50 PM, IT HAS ARRIVED! (time for lunch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congratulations ... but you haven't got time to eat, there's kit to be set up and first impressions to be reported


----------



## bearFNF

doctorjazz said:


> And, 5:50 PM, IT HAS ARRIVED! (time for lunch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Big tease, aren't you?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Looking forward to the impressions.


----------



## sahmen

doctorjazz said:


> And, 5:50 PM, IT HAS ARRIVED! (time for lunch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


peridot said:


> Congratulations ... but you haven't got time to eat, there's kit to be set up and first impressions to be reported


 
 Not to mention providing your impressions of the inevitable LC vs MicroZOTL 2 showdown/face off which is soon to take place at the doctorjazz residence...


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> And, 5:50 PM, IT HAS ARRIVED! (time for lunch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So where is the review? what is taking so long?


----------



## doctorjazz

Just listened for a few seconds, plugged in HE-1000, Norne Zoetic Balanced cable, source Pono, very nice sounding on first listen.


----------



## doctorjazz

Now, time to eat my computer screen...


----------



## Audio Addict

S/N 0096 was picked up today at the local FedEx Office.  Snowstorm didn't stop FedEx nor me.
  
 I am running balanced out of my Pulse Infinity to the LC and have a balance HD600 plugged in.
  
 I am surprised at the balanced input markings.  It was difficult to determine left versus right.  There are just a couple lines that you have to compare to the RCA input which are color coded but have similar lines.  I guess this is the Ying / Yang test.
  
 Initial volume even on the 3X gain setting and the volume knob at roughly 11 required the Infinity's variable output volume to be at least at -25 db.  I was surprised by the need to have the Infinity at that level to get much volume out of the LC.  Hopefully with the run in, it will improve as running full balance in with full balance out is initially disappointing.
  
 Just have it playing music for now and haven't listened other than trying to get the volume set.


----------



## cskippy

audio addict said:


> Initial volume even on the 3X gain setting and the volume knob at roughly 11 required the Infinity's variable output volume to be at least at -25 db.  I was surprised by the need to have the Infinity at that level to get much volume out of the LC.  Hopefully with the run in, it will improve as running full balance in with full balance out is initially disappointing.
> 
> Just have it playing music for now and haven't listened other than trying to get the volume set.


 
 I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure you should be running the volume on the Pulse at -0.0dB and use the volume pot on the Carbon.  This should give you the appropriate output level.


----------



## x RELIC x

Just checked my order invoice and the postal code is mixed with my city / state address. So, instead of a six digit postal code (zip code) I have a city / state entry with half the postal code mixed in the same line, and a three digit postal code on the zip code line instead of six digits. Perhaps this is where the confusion with the shipping is coming from. I hope it's rectified and have emailed Cavalli Audio of the error.


----------



## doctorjazz

ok, just quickly, it does sound nice with the balanced HEK, good PRAT, full tone. Surprised how light it is. Early going right now, not up to the MicroZOTL2, though, in air, detail, LC more close up perspective/in your face presentation (sometimes a good thing), not at all burned in (and, the ZOTL is twice as expensive, shouldn't be embarassed by the LC. Amp differences are subtle, though, they are there, but the LC is good sounding in its own right. More after burn in.


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> ok, just quickly, it does sound nice with the balanced HEK, good PRAT, full tone. Surprised how light it is. Early going right now, not up to the MicroZOTL2, though, in air, detail, LC more close up perspective/in your face presentation (sometimes a good thing), not at all burned in (and, the ZOTL is twice as expensive, shouldn't be embarassed by the LC. Amp differences are subtle, though, they are there, but the LC is good sounding in its own right. More after burn in.


 

 Since it is burning in, I would imagine the sound will change and I hope that it backs off as I have never enjoyed in your face sound. Some really like this, I like it set back more, which I get with the iBasso P5 and the micro Zotl.


----------



## defbear

jamato8 said:


> Since it is burning in, I would imagine the sound will change and I hope that it backs off as I have never enjoyed in your face sound. Some really like this, I like it set back more, which I get with the iBasso P5 and the micro Zotl.


I think I described it as 'in your face' maybe. But it's NOT IN YOUR FACE. It is very detailed with a big soundstage. Sometimes that makes the separate tracks of the recording sound disconnected. With the LC think of Bruno Mars with his whole band dancing on either side of him right in front of you. Big wide stance. Lots of separation. But the whole band just thumps together as a unit. Perhaps the LC sounds like that.


----------



## Audio Addict

cskippy said:


> I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure you should be running the volume on the Pulse at -0.0dB and use the volume pot on the Carbon.  This should give you the appropriate output level.


 
  
 I know that's an option but other amplifiers I have run off the Infinity haven't needed it that loud.  The 0.0 db also controls the internal SE and Balanced amplifiers on the Infinity so if I forgot the volume needed for the LC and plug the headphones into the Infinity, that is a problem.  I want my cake and be able to eat it too


----------



## doctorjazz

As I said, it was out of the box maybe an hour or 2 when I compared for fun, now I'll be connecting the LC to my old iPod Mini for break in. And, it doesn't have to be as good as the ZOTL to be a success...hey, it's not as good (from other's impressions) as the Liquid Glass or other higher end amps, and it's not supposed to be (I don't think Cavalli wants everyone to ditch the pricier stuff for the LC). From what I heard, as a transportable, light, relatively inexpensive amp, it will do nicely, thank you.


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> As I said, it was out of the box maybe an hour or 2 when I compared for fun, now I'll be connecting the LC to my old iPod Mini for break in. And, it doesn't have to be as good as the ZOTL to be a success...hey, it's not as good (from other's impressions) as the Liquid Glass or other higher end amps, and it's not supposed to be (I don't think Cavalli wants everyone to ditch the pricier stuff for the LC). From what I heard, as a transportable, light, relatively inexpensive amp, it will do nicely, thank you.


It will do Nicely. Nicely? Is that all? It's gotta be better than that. This is ........................like Dorothy entering the Emerald City.


----------



## doctorjazz

Maybe, it's early in the listening. If you were expecting an out of the box knock out of the MicroZOTL2, well, doesn't sound like it to me. But, got many hours to go, and I don't think it will give up a while lot to the ZOTL, so, at half the price, it would be a good buy (and, it definitely is more "transportable"). But, I'm getting ahead of myself, only compared by popular demand (well, at least 1 request...), no where close to recommended break in time. Have it connected and burning now, check in on it tomorrow.


----------



## nanoevil

Number 102 reporting :


----------



## Cardiiiii

nanoevil said:


> Number 102 reporting :


 
  
 How's the LC with the Hugo? I can't wait anymore!!! I want mine nowww!!!


----------



## reddog

I like the Liquid Carbon, it sounds incredible for its size and cost; however it does not come close to the Liquid Glass or Crimson. I will mostly use the Carbon, when I am travelling, I still need to finish burning to the Carbon, perhaps its sound signature will improve, in such a way its better than its larger siblings.


----------



## Peridot

audio addict said:


> I am surprised at the balanced input markings.  It was difficult to determine left versus right.  There are just a couple lines that you have to compare to the RCA input which are color coded but have similar lines.  I guess this is the Ying / Yang test.


 
  
 I take it you didn't notice that one of those lines forms the letter 'L', and the other forms the letter 'r'  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It is a strange font.


----------



## joeexp

peridot said:


> I take it you didn't notice that one of those lines forms the letter 'L', and the other forms the letter 'r'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's  a freeware font called "Squared Display" - Which needless to say has quiet a few kerning and legibility issues.


----------



## nanoevil

cardiiiii said:


> How's the LC with the Hugo? I can't wait anymore!!! I want mine nowww!!!




Sadly haven't tried it yet...my folks don't have rca cables hahaha...got to buy a set...but in planning to use crystal cable ICs when I return to the Philippines


----------



## sheldaze

@audiofrk and @Barra, I truly enjoyed reading your back-and-forth comments in this forum back in July, a discussion on the difference between tube and solid state, analytic versus euphoric, and in particular the Liquid Carbon versus the Eddie Current Black Widow. Have either of you received your Liquid Carbon? Do you have any further insights into its sound signature, now listening on your at-home setup?


----------



## jelt2359

reddog said:


> I like the Liquid Carbon, it sounds incredible for its size and cost; however it does not come close to the Liquid Glass or Crimson. I will mostly use the Carbon, when I am travelling, I still need to finish burning to the Carbon, perhaps its sound signature will improve, in such a way its better than its larger siblings.




Are you the lucky guy who got the last Glass? I emailed them, hesitated a bit and as they say you snooze you lose. Sigh.


----------



## jelt2359

doctorjazz said:


> ok, just quickly, it does sound nice with the balanced HEK, good PRAT, full tone. Surprised how light it is. Early going right now, not up to the MicroZOTL2, though, in air, detail, LC more close up perspective/in your face presentation (sometimes a good thing), not at all burned in (and, the ZOTL is twice as expensive, shouldn't be embarassed by the LC. Amp differences are subtle, though, they are there, but the LC is good sounding in its own right. More after burn in.




Sounds about right. Switching between the Carbon and my Taurus, I hear the Cavalli as not the last word in air or detail... but smooth and fun. Good match with a pair of Audeze's for example. HEK? Not so much.


----------



## conquerator2

Why not the HEK? It was said it's a great match. Smooth and fun? Why not 
I'd say the contrary IMO.


----------



## jelt2359

I've tried it, and I think my HEK sounds just fine on my carbon, but it's not the first can I'd reach for with this amp.


----------



## Youth

Comes down to preference.


----------



## Audio Addict

peridot said:


> I take it you didn't notice that one of those lines forms the letter 'L', and the other forms the letter 'r'
> 
> It is a strange font.




Did not ever see an "L"or "r" when staring at it. Until I saw the similar marking by the RCA, I had no clue.


----------



## jelt2359

youth said:


> Comes down to preference.




Exactly. What I meant (and following on from doctorjazz's post) is that if you want a really detailed and airy sound ie more hd800 or hek than Audeze, and want an amp that sounds exactly like that, this is probably not the last word. 

If on the other hand you think the hd800 and hek are plenty airy and detailed enough by themselves and prefer something smooth and fun, then why not


----------



## reddog

jelt2359 said:


> Are you the lucky guy who got the last Glass? I emailed them, hesitated a bit and as they say you snooze you lose. Sigh.



Yes I apparently I got the last Liquid Glass, the owner's manual has me listed as # 50.


----------



## jelt2359

reddog said:


> Yes I apparently I got the last Liquid Glass, the owner's manual has me listed as # 50.




How does it compare with the liquid carbon? Just so I can imagine what I missed out on, of course.


----------



## doctorjazz

No arguments from me...don't have another balanced headphone in the same or close to the same league as the HEK, closest I have would be HE-560, Shure 1540, FAD Pandora VI (and Koss ESP-950, which uses a stat energizer), none up to the HEK, and all single ended, which makes them less than ideal for the LC, which, according to Alex, is designed with balanced in mind. The consensus until now was that HEK and LC were a great match; that was part of why I bought it. And, back to my caveats...it isn't burned in yet, and it DOES sound good...smooth, good body/texture, good PRAT, closer in presentation to my RSA HR-2 than my ZOTL. (did a review of the ZOTL with much comparison to the HR-2...can post the link later if anyone is interested when I'm not using my phone). But, so far, in comparison to the ZOTL, not as much air, detail, soundstage, more of a pleasant warmth (in comparison, mind you). This is NOT to Damn the LC...it is built to a price point, and, I suspect, a weight point to make it transportable. But, there is a reason designers often go for separate, massive power supplies...these can and do (properly designed) improve the sound, at the expense of transportability and cost. There is diminishing returns, yada yada yada... So, I view the LC (so far, I'm continuing the burn in) as a fine option in its price range, for its intended purpose, but I'm not at the "best thing since Mother's milk" stage.


----------



## reddog

jelt2359 said:


> How does it compare with the liquid carbon? Just so I can imagine what I missed out on, of course.



Using stock tubes, the Glass has such a fantastic three-dimensional holographic sound stage, with spot on imaging. Yet with all the resolving detail, the sound is so musical. The bass so good, so impactful, without impacting upon the mids. The mids are sweet, lush like but ever so detailed, never analytical. The highs are just great, no sybilance. I need to roll more tubes to find out which ones work best.


----------



## runeight

OK gents, Monday update. Not so bad, although not the schedule we had originally planned.
  
 The manuf says that all the rest of the panels for all the current orders will arrive in time for them to begin shipping all the remaining amps starting Dec 8. The amps won't go out in batches this time except when batched for different shipping types. They expect to have all of them out in about a week, maybe less.
  
 You should start receiving your confirmation emails soon. These WILL be sent out in smaller batches so we can manage the replies. So if you don't get one immediately, you will.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## rmullins08

runeight said:


> OK gents, Monday update. Not so bad, although not the schedule we had originally planned.
> 
> The manuf says that all the rest of the panels for all the current orders will arrive in time for them to begin shipping all the remaining amps starting Dec 8. The amps won't go out in batches this time except when batched for different shipping types. They expect to have all of them out in about a week, maybe less.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not so bad is right!  Time to get a balanced cable for my HE-400S.  The time is getting closer


----------



## aqsw

Latest tracking update for the screwed up orders. I guess they are getting returned to Texas?
  

November 23, 201509:49CEDAR PARK, TX 78613NOTICE LEFT (NO AUTHORIZED RECIPIENT AVAILABLE)
  
  
 Darn!!!


----------



## jelt2359

reddog said:


> Using stock tubes, the Glass has such a fantastic three-dimensional holographic sound stage, with spot on imaging. Yet with all the resolving detail, the sound is so musical. The bass so good, so impactful, without impacting upon the mids. The mids are sweet, lush like but ever so detailed, never analytical. The highs are just great, no sybilance. I need to roll more tubes to find out which ones work best.


 
 Sounds like I missed out big time!


----------



## doctorjazz

Maybe Alex will "go Glass" again, hint hint hint...


----------



## aqsw

aqsw said:


> Latest tracking update for the screwed up orders. I guess they are getting returned to Texas?
> 
> 
> November 23, 201509:49CEDAR PARK, TX 78613NOTICE LEFT (NO AUTHORIZED RECIPIENT AVAILABLE)
> ...


 
 Nobody to sign for them at 9:49 in the morning. Not good!
  
 I'll bet there was more than a few of them also.


----------



## runeight

OK folks, I think we got a break. They shipped all of the USPS packages back to Austin in one single shipment. I just left the post office where we turned all of them outbound to your destinations. You should see tracking that shows this now.
  
 Please let us know if not.


----------



## coastal1

Cavali website says Liquid Glass production run 2 is in progress



jelt2359 said:


> Sounds like I missed out big time!







doctorjazz said:


> Maybe Alex will "go Glass" again, hint hint hint...


----------



## doctorjazz

The website states run 2 is in progress, and also states "sold out", which is good, as I'm on a gear free diet at present, self imposed (and encouraged by the missus...) :rolleyes:


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> The website states run 2 is in progress, and also states "sold out", which is good, as I'm on a gear free diet at present, self imposed (and encouraged by the missus...) :rolleyes:


Still available, still $599.00. At 2:56pm pst I am able to put one in their shopping cart. If I had any justification whatsoever I would get another.


----------



## buke9

rmullins08 said:


> Not so bad is right!  Time to get a balanced cable for my HE-400S.  The time is getting closer


 
 Yes can't wait to hear the 400S balanced. Starting to like those phones more and more. Not as good as the Ether-C's but nice for some music and for something a little different. Making my own cables though just waiting on connectors.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

defbear said:


> Still available, still $599.00. At 2:56pm pst I am able to put one in their shopping cart. If I had any justification whatsoever I would get another.




I'll take another if you are buying .


----------



## defbear

Big dummy, they were talking Liquid Glass.


----------



## doctorjazz

Liquid Glass AIN'T $599...


----------



## jelt2359

doctorjazz said:


> Liquid Glass AIN'T $599...




I wonder how much the Liquid Glass is during Black Friday?


----------



## Beolab

Alex: 

Whats the max Vrms and current amps spec of the Carbon in 50 Ohms ?


----------



## nanoevil

runeight

My setup is  dx90 connected to Hugo via coax then Hugo rca out to LC.

So activating the hugo as pure dac (holding the crossfeed button while powering up) and the LC on high gain even at the lowest / zero volume (7 o'clock) i can still hear music from my headphone (lcd 2.2 non f) is that normal due to the fixed vol output of the hugo is high.


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Liquid Glass AIN'T $599...


Yes! Act now before it's too late! Why for a mere $599.00......you can get.......pretty silly on head-fi.


----------



## nanashisan

A pic of my setup.


----------



## defbear

nanashisan said:


> A pic of my setup.


I had a couple walk in. He was 6 foot 7 and 380 pounds. She was 4 foot 10 and I couldn't guess her weight. She played a huge Fender Jazz Bass and he played a little bitty Mandolin. They looked a bit silly but sounded fabulous.


----------



## jelt2359

nanashisan said:


> A pic of my setup.


 
 Which LCD is that? Mine may be exactly the same! (Yggy->LC->LCD 2.2c (non-fazor)) Great combi.


----------



## Cardiiiii

So all orders will be shipped out in the week starting December 8? Noice


----------



## nanashisan

jelt2359 said:


> Which LCD is that? Mine may be exactly the same! (Yggy->LC->LCD 2.2c (non-fazor)) Great combi.


 
 LCD-2.2 and I agree it is a pretty great combo.
 Anybody have experence with LCD-2 and ether C with the LC?
 I'm really digging a closed back planar headphone that is not heavier than the LCD-2.


----------



## x RELIC x

nanashisan said:


> LCD-2.2 and I agree it is a pretty great combo.
> Anybody have experence with LCD-2 and ether C with the LC?
> I'm really digging a closed back planar headphone that is not heaver then the LCD-2.




I will be when my LC ships....


----------



## nanashisan

Looking forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## x RELIC x

nanashisan said:


> Looking forward to hearing your impressions.




Haha, me too man!


----------



## buke9

Just got my email to verify address woo hoo.


----------



## Hoztel

yup same here got my notice to confirm shipping about 30 minutes ago! woo stoked =]


----------



## bearFNF

Same here, order #642..


----------



## cbar

Me too, #703. Now if only my Pulse X Infinity would come...


----------



## aamefford

Ditto. 699.


----------



## weitn

I have finally came home yesterday and unboxed the LC.


----------



## zachawry

So does the orientation of the Kobiconn cable mean it can't be used at the same time as the XLR? That would be a bummer, because one of the reasons I bought the amp was to use it for my Primes and Ethers together, me and my son, rocking out together doing homework/work.


----------



## SandyBay

Looking at tracking scan records for my LC shipment (to Australia). It took 8 days (from 17 Nov to 24 Nov) for it to travel from Westminster CA to Chicago IL (USPS). That is painfully slow. Not sure if this is normal in US. Am I alone experiencing slow delivery?


----------



## purk

zachawry said:


> So does the orientation of the Kobiconn cable mean it can't be used at the same time as the XLR? That would be a bummer, because one of the reasons I bought the amp was to use it for my Primes and Ethers together, me and my son, rocking out together doing homework/work.


 
 A 3.5 mm TRRS is probably a better choice than Kobiconn connector.  The same connector that is utilized on the Sony ZX2.


----------



## zachawry

purk said:


> A 3.5 mm TRRS is probably a better choice than Kobiconn connector.  The same connector that is utilized on the Sony ZX2.


 

 The 3.5 output is single-ended only. That means I would have to jack up the volume so high for the SE hp that the balanced hp would be way too loud.


----------



## purk

zachawry said:


> The 3.5 output is single-ended only. That means I would have to jack up the volume so high for the SE hp that the balanced hp would be way too loud.



 


TRRS is balanced with 4 contacts while TRS has only 3. Search around for 3.5 mm TRRS and you will see my point.


----------



## jarnopp

sandybay said:


> Looking at tracking scan records for my LC shipment (to Australia). It took 8 days (from 17 Nov to 24 Nov) for it to travel from Westminster CA to Chicago IL (USPS). That is painfully slow. Not sure if this is normal in US. Am I alone experiencing slow delivery?




There was a shipping issue with overseas deliveries - see post #1062 here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available/1050


----------



## A2029

zachawry said:


> So does the orientation of the Kobiconn cable mean it can't be used at the same time as the XLR? That would be a bummer, because one of the reasons I bought the amp was to use it for my Primes and Ethers together, me and my son, rocking out together doing homework/work.


 
  
 First thing to consider:
 With the traditional Kobiconn connector - yes, it would be in the way of the XLR and therefore you could not use both at once. If you know somebody that is able to modify connectors for you, something could be made so that the wire going to the Kobiconn inlet sticks strait out and allows the XLR to be used at the same time.
  
 Second thing to consider:
 The primes and Ether's have different impedances and sensitivities, so even if you tried using both at the same time you would not have the same volume level on both.
  


purk said:


> A 3.5 mm TRRS is probably a better choice than Kobiconn connector.  The same connector that is utilized on the Sony ZX2.


 
  
 There is no 3.5mm TRRS port on the Carbon...


----------



## zachawry

purk said:


> zachawry said:
> 
> 
> > The 3.5 output is single-ended only. That means I would have to jack up the volume so high for the SE hp that the balanced hp would be way too loud.
> ...


 

 I know the difference between TRRS and TRS. But the 3.5 jack on the LC only offers SE output either way, I believe.


----------



## zachawry

swich401 said:


> Second thing to consider:
> The primes and Ether's have different impedances and sensitivities, so even if you tried using both at the same time you would not have the same volume level on both.


 
  
 Yeah, I know, but I was hoping to be able to find some acceptable middle ground. The difference does not seem all that large in practice. 
  
 I guess I can still listen to one hp through my Hugo, then still feed the LC through the Hugo for the other hp, using the LC volume control to make up for difference in loudness.


----------



## nudd

#677 I think and got the shipping email which says going to ship during the week of Dec 8! Unfortunately i will likely be in Japan until early Jan. 

Hoping that the Onkyo DAP will be out by then and I can buy it ... Lol.


----------



## A2029

zachawry said:


> Yeah, I know, but I was hoping to be able to find some acceptable middle ground. The difference does not seem all that large in practice.
> 
> I guess I can still listen to one hp through my Hugo, then still feed the LC through the Hugo for the other hp, using the LC volume control to make up for difference in loudness.


 
  
 Use the Ether's on the Hugo (as the Ether's are more sensitive), and use the Prime's on the LC for best sound.


----------



## Audio Addict

The LC is now roughly half the way to its 150 hour breakin. I have listened some during that time but have not heard too much of a change so far. Honestly it has not had that magical engagement yet that I have read about. Hopefully during the next 75 hours it will really develop that special CA sound.


----------



## DatGuy

sandybay said:


> Looking at tracking scan records for my LC shipment (to Australia). It took 8 days (from 17 Nov to 24 Nov) for it to travel from Westminster CA to Chicago IL (USPS). That is painfully slow. Not sure if this is normal in US. Am I alone experiencing slow delivery?


 
 That's normal for USPS, they are always so slow with international packages. no kidding. My USPS packages sent to Asia take over a week in the US, sometimes multiple. and when they reach the country i have them by the next day.
  
 I tend to go for Fedex or DHL now (not UPS) for any important purchases. My LC was sent out Friday afternoon PST. I had them by Tuesday morning 9:30 AM GMT + 8 via Fedex


----------



## doctorjazz

Your Liquid Carbon® amplifier has been tested before leaving the factory, but has very few 
hours on it. Most amplifiers need at least 150 hours of continuous use, playing music, to reach 
their full sound signatures. We recommend about the same for the Liquid Carbon®. 
You can, when you’re not listening, you leave the amp on continuously with your source in loop 
mode for enough hours to reach the 150 hour point. It is not necessary to leave headphones 
attached. In fact, we recommend that you disconnect your headphones when not listening 
during this break-in period. 
At this point - and not before this point – will the amplifier reach the level of performance 
enabling you to accurately judge its sound quality and to determine whether it meets your 
critical listening standard. 


From the manual...why do they recommend disconnecting headphones while breaking in the LC?
(I'm in day 3 break in, about half way there...)


----------



## DecentLevi

audio addict said:


> The LC is now roughly half the way to its 150 hour breakin. I have listened some during that time but have not heard too much of a change so far. Honestly it has not had that magical engagement yet that I have read about. Hopefully during the next 75 hours it will really develop that special CA sound.


 
  
 IMHO, the sound you get out of the box is _generally_ the sound you will get from any audio product, that is to say that burn-in makes only very subtle differences. The sound of a transducer or amp can only change so much depending on the source chain. That being said, your chain will make an enormous difference in the performance of the LC amp. From your profile, looks like you have a great arsenal of cans - I recommend trying a lot of them, and even swapping DAC's to find out what works best. Also try balanced headphones and wait for burn-in.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I wonder if this "Pelican" clone would hold the LC?
  
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12180
  
 If it does, it would be quite a steal...


----------



## Youth

audio addict said:


> The LC is now roughly half the way to its 150 hour breakin. I have listened some during that time but have not heard too much of a change so far. Honestly it has not had that magical engagement yet that I have read about. Hopefully during the next 75 hours it will really develop that special CA sound.


 
  
 First of all, this is hype-fi so take that into consideration. I'm not trying to talk bad about Cavallis products, because I like them very much, but it's just seems people on this website has a tendency to hype things up to be more than they are. Secondly I think prefence could play a role here. The people who praised it might have different prefences to you so that magical engagement you're looking for might already be there, just not for you. I don't know, just my thoughts.


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> I wonder if this "Pelican" clone would hold the LC?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12180
> 
> If it does, it would be quite a steal...


 
 Nope. If the LC didn't have a volume knob the chassis itself would potentially fit (but just barely), but with the knob the length is more like 7.5", so no go with this case since the internal dimension is 7". Cheers


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

mscott58 said:


> Nope. If the LC didn't have a volume knob the chassis itself would potentially fit (but just barely), but with the knob the length is more like 7.5", so no go with this case since the internal dimension is 7". Cheers


 
  
 Bummer.  Maybe this one?  Though a little bulkier then some would like, still also a deal.
  
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12679


----------



## toobuzz

buttuglyjeff said:


> I wonder if this "Pelican" clone would hold the LC?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12180
> 
> If it does, it would be quite a steal...


 
 Unfortunately, I do not think that the LC will fit. 
  
 LC dimensions - W 5” (12.7cm) D 7” (17.8cm) H 1.75” (4.5cm)
  
 Internal case dimensions - 6.73" x 5.28" x 1.85" (171 x 134 x 47 mm)


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> First of all, this is hype-fi so take that into consideration. I'm not trying to talk bad about Cavallis products, because I like them very much, but it's just seems people on this website has a tendency to hype things up to be more than they are. Secondly I think prefence could play a role here. The people who praised it might have different prefences to you so that magical engagement you're looking for might already be there, just not for you. I don't know, just my thoughts.


 
 I will add, it is important to gauge on listening experience to the final product. Much of the hype was from the demo.
  
 In my opinion, based on around 75 hours of burn-in, there is a sonic difference between the final and demonstration units. I will not be adding my comments (i.e. likes and dislikes), until I listen to it for a long while and I am 100% certain there are no further sonic changes. I will only add that I do believe there have been sonic changes during burn-in.


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> Bummer.  Maybe this one?  Though a little bulkier then some would like, still also a deal.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12679


 
 Would likely just squeeze in, but to protect the LC you need some buffer space between the unit and the case, otherwise any shocks to the case will risk being transmitted to the LC if there's not enough padding protecting it. 
  
 I'd recommend this one. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40634-REG/Pelican_1200_000_180_1200_Case_with_Foam.html
  
 It's more expensive, but the Pelican cases are bullet-proof. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## ying

audio addict said:


> The LC is now roughly half the way to its 150 hour breakin. I have listened some during that time but have not heard too much of a change so far. Honestly it has not had that magical engagement yet that I have read about. Hopefully during the next 75 hours it will really develop that special CA sound.


 
  
 This happened with me when I was so excited for the Bottlehead Crack. It was really hard for me to tell the difference with the Bottlehead Crack, people made it seem like it was some kind of magical sound. I had to switch around amps to see if there were big differences and really the differences were very minute. It was to the point if I just sat down and listened without the Crack I wouldn't even care that much. 
  
 That being said, it really depends on what kind of gear you have. If you have something mid end already I wouldn't expect a massive difference. But I gotta say I am really excited for my LC to arrive. I really hope it does make my HD800 shine more...


----------



## doctorjazz

Amp differences, in general, are not going to be of the magnitude of headphone differences. They are subtle (not so subtle if you are going from an underpowered phone, but subtle if you are already using a decent amp, as noted above). There are differences, that you can pick up in close listening, and they can make a difference in listening enjoyment. But, the act of describing these differences in words, seems to me, generally inflates the impression. It is hard to say something is more "open" or "detailed" without giving the impression of day and night differences, which I generally don't find to be the case in well designed gear past the very basic level. They are usually more obvious in direct comparison.


----------



## Youth

doctorjazz said:


> Amp differences, in general, are not going to be of the magnitude of headphone differences. They are subtle (not so subtle if you are going from an underpowered phone, but subtle if you are already using a decent amp, as noted above). There are differences, that you can pick up in close listening, and they can make a difference in listening enjoyment. But, the act of describing these differences in words, seems to me, generally inflates the impression. It is hard to say something is more "open" or "detailed" without giving the impression of day and night differences, which I generally don't find to be the case in well designed gear past the very basic level. They are usually more obvious in direct comparison.


 
  
 I think it also depends on what headphone you are using since some headphones scales alot more than others.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sure, and I can hear the differences in amps using my HE-1000, they probably are less obvious through Apple Ear Buds, but I still stick by what I said about the differences relative to, say, headphones or speakers. Things do add together, though...a slightly better sounding DAC, a slightly better sounding amp, a slightly better sounding cable, better sounding headphones, now you're not talking slight anymore.


----------



## Youth

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just adding my thoughts


----------



## doctorjazz

And I wasn't disagreeing with you either, no need to take it personally, just going off at the mouth (keyboard) longer than I likely needed to.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Anyone else got their confirmation email? The highest so far is 703 I think.


----------



## buke9

cardiiiii said:


> Anyone else got their confirmation email? The highest so far is 703 I think.


 

 They said they were going to do them in small batches. Emails that is.


----------



## warrenpchi

*Hi guys!*


----------



## Hansotek

warrenpchi said:


> *Hi guys!*


 
  
 Dammit Warren! Okay, I'm on board. I finally ordered my Carbon.


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> *Hi guys!*


 
 Nice review Warren.
  


hansotek said:


> Dammit Warren! Okay, I'm on board. I finally ordered my Carbon.


 
 Aahahahahahahahahahahaha!  Another member of the "I own (and will soon receive) a Liquid Carbon because Warren convinced me I needed it" club.  Welcome!


----------



## Hansotek

aamefford said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > *Hi guys!*
> ...



Hahaha! He is quite convincing isn't he? Lol. I was kinda on the brink of ordering one anyway. The realization that there are so few left put me over the edge, for sure. I'm just giving warrenpchi a hard time.


----------



## warrenpchi

hansotek said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > *Hi guys!*
> ...


 
  
 Well it's about damn time!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just kidding, I understand why you didn't.  The production version should address those concerns.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


aamefford said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > *Hi guys!*
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Aaron!  I meant to write something shorter, but then couldn't help myself.
  


> Originally Posted by *aamefford* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, c'mon, I didn't really convince anyone to get a Carbon... right?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


hansotek said:


> I was kinda on the brink of ordering one anyway. The realization that there are so few left put me over the edge, for sure. I'm just giving @warrenpchi a hard time.


 
  
 See?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can't possibly have convinced anybody, no one listens to me anyway - except that one time when I said vaginal, that seems to have stuck for some reason.


----------



## Cryok95

Serial #60 reporting in, from sunny Singapore 
  
 Unfortunately my amp was caught up in the USPS mix up. Or i would have received it last week~
  
 The amp was delivered today during lunch. I do suppose i'm the first in SG to have one 
  
 First impressions:
 (Around 3 hours of burn in, max gain, no headphones plugged in)
 I don't have any balanced cables yet for my hd600 so i'll be doing this single ended. 
 Have DHC cables incoming so i'll be looking forward to those.
  
 Extremely transparent amp. The sound-staging is the widest i have heard in a while. Color me impressed. 
 All the details are shining through. Highs are slightly harsh now but i'd suppose that'll smoothen out with burn-in.
  
 Loving it so far.
  
 I'll update again when i reach the 150 hour mark. Arrgh, why isn't a time machine invented yet. I wanna throw the amp into it and skip the burn in process!!


----------



## d1sturb3d

Received mine (89/90) from the courier today (Manila),will try to burn in the amp, my balanced dac is at the office so SE will do for now


----------



## runeight

Hello folks, some of you should be receiving confirmation email soon if you haven't already.
  
 Please note that as of Dec 1 we will no longer do refunds until the rest of the amps are shipped. So if you have changed your mind you still have a few days.


----------



## nanoevil

d1sturb3d said:


> Received mine (89/90) from the courier today (Manila),will try to burn in the amp, my balanced dac is at the office so SE will do for now




Oohhh we are LC buddies. Congrats on your LC. Mine just hit the 150hr burn in mark. What serial did you get?

Fortunately I arrived in the US when my LC arrived. Did you get taxed? I'm still waiting for my Marrow Audio rcas and power cables to complete my rig.

I'll be back to the Philippines on the 6th of December


----------



## jelt2359

cryok95 said:


> Serial #60 reporting in, from sunny Singapore
> 
> Unfortunately my amp was caught up in the USPS mix up. Or i would have received it last week~
> 
> ...




Congrats. I would guess quite a few from SG got this too. I got mine about two weeks ago now 

This is a very fun and musical amp for sure.


----------



## grizzlybeast

oh my gosh this small amp has 4 freakin threads..
  
 I gleaned quite a bit from the other impression thread but have no idea which on to subscribe to.  For those of you who have a pulse infinity, how much of a step up is this from the balanced headphone out of the infinity? I only ask because one individual felt the amp on the infinity was better. I am very doubtful of that comment for two reasons.. the headphone out of the infinity balanced sounds thin, slightly bright, and definitely not my cup of tea. From what I understand the pulse infinity dac is actually not bright so I am hoping to have better results from this as a stand alone amp with the infinity. 
  
  
 I just left the thx00 drop and think I made the right choice by purchasing this amp instead, I can always pick up a used txh00. If this doesn't work for me then I will save up for an eddie current black widow.


----------



## Hansotek

grizzlybeast said:


> oh my gosh this small amp has 4 freakin threads..
> 
> I gleaned quite a bit from the other impression thread but have no idea which on to subscribe to.  For those of you who have a pulse infinity, how much of a step up is this from the balanced headphone out of the infinity? I only ask because one individual felt the amp on the infinity was better. I am very doubtful of that comment for two reasons.. the headphone out of the infinity balanced sounds thin, slightly bright, and definitely not my cup of tea. From what I understand the pulse infinity dac is actually not bright so I am hoping to have better results from this as a stand alone amp with the infinity.
> 
> ...



I went for both, but given the choice between the two, I'm quite certain you made the right decision.


----------



## CanDude

Warning


----------



## d1sturb3d

nanoevil said:


> Oohhh we are LC buddies. Congrats on your LC. Mine just hit the 150hr burn in mark. What serial did you get?
> 
> Fortunately I arrived in the US when my LC arrived. Did you get taxed? I'm still waiting for my Marrow Audio rcas and power cables to complete my rig.
> 
> I'll be back to the Philippines on the 6th of December




Got 89/90 serials , I used the usual JAC to get it in here.


----------



## nanoevil

d1sturb3d said:


> Got 89/90 serials , I used the usual JAC to get it in here.




Oh i missed that nice...left mine running so it should hit 200 hrs burn in before i go back to the PH.

I got serial 102


----------



## doctorjazz

Back to burn in, now the no headphones connected version, as in the manual, be done in about 2020...


----------



## d1sturb3d

Oh well burned in for at least 2 hours and can't wait to listen to it so I did myself a favor and plugged in my headhphones while working..it's holiday here so no people in the office however the damn air cooler is so loud...can't listen to my headphones critically..so just rocking it now..
  
 Quote:


nanoevil said:


> Oh i missed that nice...left mine running so it should hit 200 hrs burn in before i go back to the PH.
> 
> I got serial 102


----------



## dBel84

candude said:


> Warning


 
  
 With the balanced connections plugged in and driving headphones, the amp is very active. If you plug in a TRS jack .....
  
 1. You create a dead short from one of the output rails to ground  = instant overload 
  
  - several amps have been destroyed in this way, the most spectacular was probably the B22 at a meet which was hot swapped while trying to compare various headphones, it literally went up in smoke. 
  
  - please treat these devices with respect, any headphone amp should be turned to minimum volume prior to plugging / unplugging a TRS jack
  
 2. Never drive balanced and SE at the same time - unless there are separate amplification sections for each. If you are trying to use the same output to drive balanced and SE, you are pulling half the load off one of the output rails and thus significantly unbalancing the output and placing undue strain on the amplifier itself. 
  
 a bit like taking your car round a race track while you have deflated the tires on the one side. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## zachawry

dbel84 said:


> With the balanced connections plugged in and driving headphones, the amp is very active. If you plug in a TRS jack .....
> 
> 1. You create a dead short from one of the output rails to ground  = instant overload
> 
> ...


 

 FYI, I had no idea about any of this stuff. Is it included in the manual? 
  
 Some of us are just newbies in the head-fi world, and have pretty much zero understanding of what's going on at an electrical level.


----------



## adobotj

d1sturb3d said:


> Got 89/90 serials , I used the usual JAC to get it in here.




That's what I also did. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for my address confirmation email as I ordered pretty late in the line (july) and hoping to get it by December. I guess we'll soon be 3 LC buddies.  have my balanced cans waiting for it!


----------



## Cardiiiii

adobotj said:


> That's what I also did. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for my address confirmation email as I ordered pretty late in the line (july) and hoping to get it by December. I guess we'll soon be 3 LC buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I ordered in July as well, whats your order #?


----------



## conquerator2

Woop. I am in


----------



## adobotj

cardiiiii said:


> I ordered in July as well, whats your order #?




Order number 956


----------



## swspiers

zachawry said:


> FYI, I had no idea about any of this stuff. Is it included in the manual?
> 
> Some of us are just newbies in the head-fi world, and have pretty much zero understanding of what's going on at an electrical level.


 
 Hang in there.  I've blown up my fair share of equipment over the years.  One time it was a 1500 watt bass amp.  THAT was LOUD!!!


----------



## Cardiiiii

adobotj said:


> Order number 956


 
  
 And I'm 959. Should get an email by the end of the week I would think.


----------



## Stillhart

grizzlybeast said:


> oh my gosh this small amp has 4 freakin threads..
> 
> I gleaned quite a bit from the other impression thread but have no idea which on to subscribe to.  For those of you who have a pulse infinity, how much of a step up is this from the balanced headphone out of the infinity? I only ask because one individual felt the amp on the infinity was better. I am very doubtful of that comment for two reasons.. the headphone out of the infinity balanced sounds thin, slightly bright, and definitely not my cup of tea. From what I understand the pulse infinity dac is actually not bright so I am hoping to have better results from this as a stand alone amp with the infinity.
> 
> ...


 
  
@mscott58 should be able to answer this question...


----------



## swspiers

Order 910 here.  Hopefully- SOON!


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> @mscott58 should be able to answer this question...


 
 Thanks Dan, and yes, I did just answer the question (at least in a short-version) here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/285#post_12120563
  
 Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

June 09. Order #845. No notice.


----------



## Audio Addict

dbel84 said:


> With the balanced connections plugged in and driving headphones, the amp is very active. If you plug in a TRS jack .....
> 
> 1. You create a dead short from one of the output rails to ground  = instant overload
> 
> ...




Thanks 

However for safety there should be a switch to select SE or balanced like the input has one or the other.


----------



## leafs

My order is in May. Number I think is 7xx, need to check. Hopefully will receive notice soon.


----------



## nanoevil

cardiiiii said:


> And I'm 959. Should get an email by the end of the week I would think.




Philippine LC meet


----------



## buke9

leafs said:


> My order is in May. Number I think is 7xx, need to check. Hopefully will receive notice soon.


 
 #682 got mine last week. So I would think you would get it this week. Notice that is.


----------



## Stillhart

audio addict said:


> Thanks
> 
> However for safety there should be a switch to select SE or balanced like the input has one or the other.


 
  
 I think a lot of the issues he's talking about can be compensated for with good amp design.  The B22 is a DIY amp and there's an option to install a circuit that protects from the kind of short he's talking about; seems it wasn't installed on this one.
  
 My point is that Cavalli amps are well-designed and should be able to handle these things.  I've certainly violated every check point above on my LC and had no issues...
  
 That said, these are great rules of thumb that people should be doing just in case.  It takes no time to turn down the volume when swapping headphones; if nothing else, it should be done just to save your ears and drivers from sudden volume changes.


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> I think a lot of the issues he's talking about can be compensated for with good amp design.  The B22 is a DIY amp and there's an option to install a circuit that protects from the kind of short he's talking about; seems it wasn't installed on this one.
> 
> My point is that Cavalli amps are well-designed and should be able to handle these things.  I've certainly violated every check point above on my LC and had no issues...
> 
> That said, these are great rules of thumb that people should be doing just in case.  It takes no time to turn down the volume when swapping headphones; if nothing else, it should be done just to save your ears and drivers from sudden volume changes.


 
 Amen to that. Especially at shows. I've gone to booths before where someone left the volume at "ear drum breaker" levels and almost been knocked to the floor...


----------



## Cardiiiii

buke9 said:


> #682 got mine last week. So I would think you would get it this week. Notice that is.




Considering all current orders start shipping in the week starting Dec 8 I would assume we will all get emails in the space of every few days.


----------



## adobotj

cardiiiii said:


> Considering all current orders start shipping in the week starting Dec 8 I would assume we will all get emails in the space of every few days.




Amen to this. I'm so excited to get it and enjoy it with all of my balanced cans! Soon... all of us would be enjoying this great amp!


----------



## Cardiiiii

@runeight , do we have a Monday update to confirm last Monday's update?


----------



## leafs

buke9 said:


> #682 got mine last week. So I would think you would get it this week. Notice that is.


 

 Congrats! Hope you receive the LC soon. Hopefully the notice will come soon. Cheers!


----------



## fengwei007

Couldn't resist, placed my order today, number 1177. I don't mind waiting as long as it'd be here before I've got enough cash for the Edition X


----------



## Dave74

fengwei007 said:


> Couldn't resist, placed my order today, number 1117. I don't mind waiting as long as it'd be here before I've got enough cash for the Edition X


 

 Hmm... Thats odd.  I ordered on Nov. 18th and my order no. is 1152, 35 higher.


----------



## zerogorgor

dave74 said:


> Hmm... Thats odd.  I ordered on Nov. 18th and my order no. is 1152, 35 higher.


 
 Most likely his is 1177?


----------



## Mattyhew

Is there any kind of Rough ETA for orders placed around now?


----------



## bearFNF

mattyhew said:


> Is there any kind of Rough ETA for orders placed around now?



Goal is to ship all current orders before the end of the year.


----------



## Mattyhew

That would apply to a future order placed sometime this week?


----------



## rollinbr

mattyhew said:


> That would apply to a future order placed sometime this week?


 
 Yes


----------



## Dave74

zerogorgor said:


> Most likely his is 1177?


 

 Hopefully lol.


----------



## fengwei007

dave74 said:


> Hmm... Thats odd.  I ordered on Nov. 18th and my order no. is 1152, 35 higher.




Sorry my bad. Mine is 1177 indeed


----------



## roguepp88

I am 1178, just ordered 5 min ago...
 Proves the previous order must have been 1177


----------



## zerogorgor

fengwei007 said:


> Sorry my bad. Mine is 1177 indeed


 
 Glad to know. After all, mine is 1117


----------



## Dave74

zerogorgor said:


> Glad to know. After all, mine is 1117


 

 I guess that would be how you knew his no. was wrong
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
  
 These seem to be selling quickly now.  Must be because of warrenpchi's review.   If I hadn't ordered on Nov. 18th I definitely would have after reading his review


----------



## doctorjazz

Any idea where they are in terms of selling out? Just curious...


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> Any idea where they are in terms of selling out? Just curious...




In warrenpchi's review he said less than 50 remaining so I could only guess that it's close to being sold out.


----------



## elwappo99

So..... any more reviews? All the units shipped and the people that got them are silent?


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> So..... any more reviews? All the units shipped and the people that got them are silent?


 
  
 I think that's what the Impressions thread is for.  
  
 (Not that it's much more active, but yeah.)


----------



## doctorjazz

Hey, I'm on my million hour burn in, can't have impressions until then!!!!!


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Hey, I'm on my million hour burn in, can't have impressions until then!!!!!


I am trying but my Macbook Pro keeps going into sleep mode. Could be Window to the rescue Again!


----------



## ejong7

elwappo99 said:


> So..... any more reviews? All the units shipped and the people that got them are silent?


 

 There is a 3 part headphone review on headphone guru you could check it out. I wanted to write a review (and still do) but school work just boggled me down. As it's my own personal unit, I guess I rather take the time to write the review than writing a review under the pressure of time constraint. However I would be more than glad to give you my impressions. Or of course, there's an impression thread.


----------



## Youth

ejong7 said:


> There is a 3 part headphone review on headphone guru you could check it out. I wanted to write a review (and still do) but school work just boggled me down. As it's my own personal unit, I guess I rather take the time to write the review than writing a review under the pressure of time constraint. However I would be more than glad to give you my impressions. Or of course, there's an impression thread.


 
  
 Take your time. No point in reading a rushed review anyways! And judging gear takes time, be patient folks...


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, I'm on my million hour burn in, can't have impressions until then!!!!!
> ...




That's what my old iPod Touch is good for, constantly playing for break in. 

I agree with not rushing reviews; I have had 1 impression of gear early on that changed over time and more extensive listening. On Head-Fi, the box opening and initial impressions often seem to be most important to people.


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> That's what my old iPod Touch is good for, constantly playing for break in.
> 
> I agree with not rushing reviews; I have had 1 impression of gear early on that changed over time and more extensive listening. On Head-Fi, the box opening and initial impressions often seem to be most important to people.




In this case I can see the urgency as time may be quickly running out to jump on board.


----------



## doctorjazz

Yeah, but not a soul has had a bad thing to say about it...it's either really good for the money (a minority view, still positive), or the Greatest Thing Since Mother's Milk!!!!!
If one could use an amp in this price range, can't see what they're waiting for, a personal invite from Alex?


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> Yeah, but not a soul has had a bad thing to say about it...it's either really good for the money (a minority view, still positive), or the Greatest Thing Since Mother's Milk!!!!!
> If one could use an amp in this price range, can't see what they're waiting for, a personal invite from Alex?




Lol! True! Some people just like to have that extra confirmation I guess, or aren't aware of all the praise.


----------



## doctorjazz

I wasn't even in the market for an amp in this price range, but I jumped in on the basis of the raves the LC was getting!


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> I wasn't even in the market for an amp in this price range, but I jumped in on the basis of the raves the LC was getting!




Yup, you and I both!


----------



## doofalb

x relic x said:


> Yup, you and I both!


 
 Me too, makes it three. And I'm sure there's more  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still burning in. Can't wait to hook it up to my mojo


----------



## buke9

doofalb said:


> Me too, makes it three. And I'm sure there's more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can't wait just to get it. April was a long time ago.


----------



## doctorjazz

So, I can't understand the idea that the LC is this unknown quantity, when so many of us jumped in just on the basis of the positive word of mouth. In fact, I think it may be the most hyped (not using the word in the negative sense) piece of gear since the HE-1000, at least here on Head-Fi, with multiple threads, lots of impressions, even speculation on the best/most worthy DAC to pair with this amp. There has been no shortage of LC impressions.


----------



## elwappo99

stillhart said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > So..... any more reviews? All the units shipped and the people that got them are silent?
> ...


 
  
 I had no idea there even was one. Why did someone make another carbon thread


----------



## Stillhart

elwappo99 said:


> I had no idea there even was one. Why did someone make another carbon thread


 
  
 I think the logic was that people wouldn't have to wade through hundreds of pages of... not impressions... to get to the impressions.  But that thread is pretty OT also.  lol  I think once they all ship, they should close two of the remaining threads.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm about to start my "Impressions on people's Impressions on the Liquid Carbon" thread!


----------



## Mr Rick

doctorjazz said:


> I'm about to start my "Impressions on people's Impressions on the Liquid Carbon" thread!


 
 I'll subscribe.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> I'm about to start my "Impressions on people's Impressions on the Liquid Carbon" thread!


 
  
 I read @warrenpchi's impressions.  
  
*(•_•) *
  
*( •_•)>⌐■-■ *
  
*(⌐■_■)*
  
 Wasn't impressed.
  
 (kidding of course, it was impressive!)


----------



## KK22

x relic x said:


> June 09. Order #845. No notice.


 870 and no notice here either.


----------



## warrenpchi

decentlevi said:


> IMHO, the sound you get out of the box is _generally_ the sound you will get from any audio product, that is to say that burn-in makes only very subtle differences.


 
  
 In my experience, it's a total crap shoot.  At least one-third of the time, it did absolutely nothing whatsoever.  I once put a pair of AKG Q701 on burn-in inside a closet before I left for CES.  I was gone for about a week, at which point I had completely forgotten about them.  About a week and a half after I came back, I suddenly remembered them, and brought them out for audition thinking they'd be glorious!  Nope.  Same damned thing.  What a waste of time that was.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Of the times that burn-in does seem to make a difference, it's just as likely to suck afterward.  I once burned in a Denon D7100 for a week... burned all of the air and sparkle right out of that thing.  I should have left it alone.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But yes, sometimes burn-in does seem to make a positive difference, at least to me.  For example, my LCD-X didn't start getting really good until after 200 hours.  But the one thing that burn-in isn't?  It's not a magical alchemical transformation that radically changes a sound signature by 180 degrees.  Or more precisely, that has yet to happen to me, and I burn-in almost everything that comes in here.
  


grizzlybeast said:


> oh my gosh this small amp has 4 freakin threads..


 
  
 LOL!  Hey, I only started one of them.  I can't be held responsible for the other three.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


conquerator2 said:


> Woop. I am in


 
  
 Wait, are you sure???  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


stillhart said:


> I read @warrenpchi's impressions.
> 
> *(•_•) *
> 
> ...


 
  




  
 I'm actually trying to be very restrained in posting more impressions.  One of the guys in the impressions thread seemed to imply that it was somehow our job to post positive impressions in order to convince him to buy or something like that.  I'm sorry, but that's so NOT our job.  We're here to share our experiences.  And sometimes, we're just busy with work, or too busy listening and enjoying ourselves to post more at the moment.  But trying to sell him on a Carbon purchase?  No.
  
 That said, if someone has a specific impression request that I can satisfy, I'm happy to help if you're trying to get a preview on pairing, synergy, etc.  At the moment, I can mix n' match any of the following if y'all have requests:
  
  
*DACs:*
 --------------------
 CEntrance DACport LX
 Stello DA100 Signature
 Benchmark DAC 1
 Schiit Yggdrasil
  
  
*Amp:*
 --------------------
 Liquid Carbon
  
  
*Headphones:*
 --------------------
 JPS Labs Abyss
 Audeze LCX-X
 Audeze LCD-XC
 MrSpeakers ETHER
 MrSpeakers ETHERC
 Enigmacoustics Dharma
 ZMF Omni
 Sony MDR-Z7
 Sennheiser HD 650
  
  
*IEMs:*
 --------------------
 UERM (custom)
 Layla (universal)
 Noble K10 Prestige
 Noble K10U Aluminium
 Noble Savant
 Tralucent 1p2


----------



## Cardiiiii

@warrenpchi Which headphones do you think suits the Carbon best out of the LCD X & both the Ethers?


----------



## Peridot

Just had a text message to say that the Emotiva DAC I ordered to accompany my LC has been delivered.
  
 Tracking information states "handed to resident", except it hasn't ... or not a resident of my house anyway.
  
 How I hate courier companies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't get Amazon to investigate until 36 hours after reported delivery.


----------



## Dave74

peridot said:


> Just had a text message to say that the Emotiva DAC I ordered to accompany my LC has been delivered.
> 
> Tracking information states "handed to resident", except it hasn't ... or not a resident of my house anyway.
> 
> ...


 

 That is one of my bigger fears of ordering something expensive online.  When I ordered my JVC HA-FX850 earphones they ended up getting delivered to an address in the United States, but I live in Canada. I couldn't believe when I was watching the tracking and it wasn't even in the right country the it said out for delivery.   The good thing was that it was easy to prove with tracking since it wasn't even the right country.  The seller sent me a new pair as I was told to try and contact first them by Amazon, but Amazon was ready to step in if needed.  I still gave the seller a good rating for stepping up.
  
 I hope it works out for you.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Make that 3 of us, didn't know I needed a second system for the bedside table. Till I read the good Dr. Jazz's descriptions of laying in bed listening . 

Now I need to figure if the iFi Nano is an ok DAC for the LC, or there is another upgrade coming.


----------



## doctorjazz

wildcatsare1 said:


> Make that 3 of us, didn't know I needed a second system for the bedside table. Till I read the good Dr. Jazz's descriptions of laying in bed listening .
> 
> Now I need to figure if the iFi Nano is an ok DAC for the LC, or there is another upgrade coming.




Everyone needs a bedside system, of course! Get my best sleeping-err, listening done there(see my avatar).


----------



## Peridot

dave74 said:


> That is one of my bigger fears of ordering something expensive online.  When I ordered my JVC HA-FX850 earphones they ended up getting delivered to an address in the United States, but I live in Canada. I couldn't believe when I was watching the tracking and it wasn't even in the right country the it said out for delivery.   The good thing was that it was easy to prove with tracking since it wasn't even the right country.  The seller sent me a new pair as I was told to try and contact first them by Amazon, but Amazon was ready to step in if needed.  I still gave the seller a good rating for stepping up.
> 
> I hope it works out for you.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 I've heard some crazy stories about couriers, but not being able to get the right country tops them all


----------



## atomicbob

Brief impression (tongue in cheek):
  
Amazing! Marvelous! Stupendous! Colossal! Tremendous! Gigantic! Astounding! Unbelievable! Spectacular! Phenomenal! And it's good, too.
  
Some of the older audience members will know what this is from.
  
So far it is holding to the promise of being another amp in the very high performance / price league.


----------



## Punch Leez

^So much poisons.....


----------



## defbear

atomicbob said:


> Brief impression (tongue in cheek):
> 
> Amazing! Marvelous! Stupendous! Colossal! Tremendous! Gigantic! Astounding! Unbelievable! Spectacular! Phenomenal! And it's good, too.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you kidding? Daffy Duck - It is to laugh


----------



## atomicbob

defbear said:


> Are you kidding? Daffy Duck - It is to laugh


 
 Close - Daffy Duck in Hollywood - 1938


----------



## defbear

atomicbob said:


> Close - Daffy Duck in Hollywood - 1938


I did not know we needed the exact cartoon episode. I could have googled it too. It is to laugh was Daffy's catch phrase. And he's right. I would say you are Daffy Duck Deficent. Who played 'Nugie' on the Gale Storm Show? And eh um Daffy would like the Liquid Carbon er if he was real.


----------



## warrenpchi

> Originally Posted by *x RELIC x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> In this case I can see the urgency as time may be quickly running out to jump on board.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I checked in with Alex this morning about the portable amp, and asked about the Carbon status.  As of 11:50a Pacific Time (-08:00), there are only 39 Carbons remaining.
  


dave74 said:


> Must be because of warrenpchi's review.   If I hadn't ordered on Nov. 18th I definitely would have after reading his review


 
  
 Lol, that's impossible, no one ever listens to me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


cardiiiii said:


> @warrenpchi Which headphones do you think suits the Carbon best out of the LCD X & both the Ethers?


 
  
 Definitely the ETHER (open-backed), no question.  It's the most neutral and balanced of the three, which plays well with the Carbon's own balance and transparency, in being suitable for the most genres (I listen to every genre with the exception of four).  On top of that, and this is something that many have experienced, there seems to be special synergy that exists between the Carbon and the ETHER in terms of better dynamics.  It's rather thrilling, and unexpectedly so, for a pairing at their combined price range.


----------



## atomicbob

defbear said:


> I did not know we needed the exact cartoon episode. I could have googled it too. It is to laugh was Daffy's catch phrase. And he's right. I would say you are Daffy Duck Deficent. Who played 'Nugie' on the Gale Storm Show? And eh um Daffy would like the Liquid Carbon er if he was real.


 
 Ah, it's all good. Just another Looney day right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You are correct, Daffy was right.


----------



## grizzlybeast

warrenpchi said:


> I checked in with Alex this morning about the portable amp, and asked about the Carbon status.  As of 11:50a Pacific Time (-08:00), there are only 39 Carbons remaining.
> 
> 
> Lol, that's impossible, no one ever listens to me.
> ...




How about the Omni pairing with the LC?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

grizzlybeast said:


> How about the Omni pairing with the LC?


 
  
 He did listen to the Omni with the pre production LC.  Search back in this thread, he did some detailed impressions...
  
 edit - sorry, his comments were in the Omni thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/769682/zmf-omni-upcoming-semi-open-flagship/150#post_11733007


----------



## Stillhart

grizzlybeast said:


> How about the Omni pairing with the LC?


 
  
 I've been listening to that pairing for a bit now and it works well.  In fact, I'm trying to convince Zach to get an LC.  :-D


----------



## AustinValentine

By the by, it looks like the Eddie Current Black Widow is out of production now (or - possibly - moving to a DIY kit). And their new upcoming solid state amp for the new year, the Eddie Current Copperhead, is a different, brighter signature. So, anyone who was waiting for a few production run of the ECBW instead of picking up a Cavalli Liquid Carbon probably _should move fast to purchase the LC_ because I have it on good authority that...
  


warrenpchi said:


> I checked in with Alex this morning about the portable amp, and asked about the Carbon status.  As of 11:50a Pacific Time (-08:00), *there are only 39 Carbons remaining.*


----------



## sheldaze

austinvalentine said:


> By the by, it looks like the Eddie Current Black Widow is out of production now (or - possibly - moving to a DIY kit). And their new upcoming solid state amp for the new year, the Eddie Current Copperhead, is a different, brighter signature. So, anyone who was waiting for a few production run of the ECBW instead of picking up a Cavalli Liquid Carbon probably _should move fast to purchase the LC_ because I have it on good authority that...


 
 AFAIK they have their single chassis implementation close to a solution, if not yet solved. My order has not been cancelled, and they are likely to start production next year.
 If you have inside knowledge regarding the Eddie Current, please share - or PM if too off topic.
  
 I still think everyone should go ahead and buy the Liquid Carbon now - excellent value, and excellent sound, and it is not clear the Black Widow is an upgrade of any significance. Tyll mentioned a similar interest to compare the two products, particularly since the Liquid Carbon is half the price. And you'll want to order Liquid Carbon now so you'll have something under your Christmas tree


----------



## DigitalFreak

Mine arrived a couple of days ago. There's a noticeable performance upgrade when I pair my Carbon with the 2Qute DAC, especially in the mids. I'm quite happy with my desktop rig, looks like the CLAS-db is slated to collect dust unless I can find a need for it.


----------



## AustinValentine

Very nice! I suppose I should check-in here too: Serial #35 here, have had it running since 21st. 
  
 LC sounded amazing with my Gumby. I've had to move to a fully portable rig for work-related reasons (bye bye Gumby,_ for now_), so this weekend/early next week it's going to get tried out via line out with my incoming Questyle QP1R. Geek Out V2+ should be on it's way soon too, so that'll get paired with it as well to try out.


----------



## conquerator2

Can anyone confirm whether LC is pure class-A all the way up to the ~1.5W max, or whether it switches to class-AB at some point?
 If I already asked this, I am sorry!
 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Meanwhile, I'll return back to waiting for shipping


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Can anyone confirm whether LC is pure class-A all the way up to the ~1.5W max, or whether it switches to class-AB at some point?
> If I already asked this, I am sorry!
> Thanks
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know Alex addressed this question in this thread some time ago.  Some search-fu might find you the answer.  From memory, I think it's pure class-A through 1.5W but it will actually go higher than the rated 1.5 just in AB...  or something like that.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Can someone explain in layman terms what this Class A is and why it matters?


----------



## Hansotek

cardiiiii said:


> Can someone explain in layman terms what this Class A is and why it matters?


 
  
 I think this is a pretty decent explanation: http://www.electronichouse.com/daily/home-audio/the-amplifier-class-divide-amplifier-types-explained/


----------



## Beolab

.


----------



## warrenpchi

buttuglyjeff said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > How about the Omni pairing with the LC?
> ...


 
  
 Yup, Jeff is correct.  Of course, I'd be happy to take another listen on the production Carbon and report back.  The only problem with that is the Omni I have here now is outdated.  I believe that Zach has updated it (changed the tuning).  If you're not in a rush, I can swap out the outdated Omni I have here for a more current one, and then jot down some impressions with the latest in both Carbon and Omni?
  


stillhart said:


> I've been listening to that pairing for a bit now and it works well.  In fact, I'm trying to convince Zach to get an LC.  :-D


 
  
 He totally should!  It would be the most neutral amp he's got (I guess that's a clue as to how I feel about the Violectric that he's got goin' on).
  


austinvalentine said:


> By the by, it looks like the Eddie Current Black Widow is out of production now (or - possibly - moving to a DIY kit).  So, anyone who was waiting for a few production run of the ECBW instead of picking up a Cavalli Liquid Carbon probably _should move fast to purchase the LC_ because I have it on good authority that...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, wait wut?  There's no more Black Widow?
  


sheldaze said:


> I still think everyone should go ahead and buy the Liquid Carbon now - excellent value, and excellent sound, and it is not clear the Black Widow is an upgrade of any significance. Tyll mentioned a similar interest to compare the two products, particularly since the Liquid Carbon is half the price. And you'll want to order Liquid Carbon now so you'll have something under your Christmas tree


 
  
 Just for the record guys, the Black Widow is a very, very good sounding amp.  I like it along with the Carbon, albeit in different ways and for different reasons, so I can't declare a preference between the two.  It will largely come down to usage and personal sonic preferences... and I suppose budget as well.
  


digitalfreak said:


> Mine arrived a couple of days ago. There's a noticeable performance upgrade when I pair my Carbon with the 2Qute DAC, especially in the mids. I'm quite happy with my desktop rig, looks like the CLAS-db is slated to collect dust unless I can find a need for it.


 
  
 OMG, how long have you been waiting to hear those two together?  Especially since you did the first review of the [pre-production] Carbon!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  


austinvalentine said:


> LC sounded amazing with my Gumby. I've had to move to a fully portable rig for work-related reasons (bye bye Gumby,_ for now_), so this weekend/early next week it's going to get tried out via line out with my incoming Questyle QP1R.


 
  
 Lol, some parallels here.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm currently running the Carbon with an Yggy.  Overkill?  Perhaps.  But since I've been mostly here at my desk for weeks now, and both the Carbon and Yggy are here, that's the pairing I'm going with.  Eventually, I'll be moving the Carbon into the bedroom where I'll be running a TIDAL > iPad > Stello DA100 > Carbon rig.
  
 BTW, I have tried a QP1R with a Carbon.  The QP1R sounds great, but isn't dead quiet.  Likewise, the Carbon isn't pitch black if you are using sensitive IEMs (as you probably know by now).  So if that's your usage case, well, yeah not absolute perfection.  That said, if you're using headphones, especially a headphone that is not ridiculously easy to drive, I highly doubt it'll bother you in the slightest.


----------



## grizzlybeast

warrenpchi said:


> Yup, Jeff is correct.  Of course, I'd be happy to take another listen on the production Carbon and report back.  The only problem with that is the Omni I have here now is outdated.  I believe that Zach has updated it (changed the tuning).  If you're not in a rush, I can swap out the outdated Omni I have here for a more current one, and then jot down some impressions with the latest in both Carbon and Omni?


 
 That's be great I can wait for impressions. I appreciate it. Ill ordered an LC but am sure that I am one of the last. I don't know how long the wait will be. 
  
 I was also looking at the eddie current amp myself but jumped on the Carbon instead of saving up for it. Reason being is because I asked the price and it was said yet to be determined and who knows when it will be done with the new chassis.  I would still like to know the differences in: 
 Power
 sound signature
 and if the performance difference would make the black widow a logical upgrade.


----------



## Peridot

As I was at home today, I went knocking on neighbour's doors in search of my missing Emotiva Stealth DAC, and found it at the 4th house I tried.
  
 The driver had assured my neighbour that he would leave a card in my letterbox 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, panic over.
  
 I now have a couple of lonely boy XLRs, looking for a mate. Hopefully it won't be too long before the LC arrives to put them out of their misery.
  
 Mind you, the sound from the Emotiva's own headhone output is sweet indeed, and a step-up from any other kit I have at the moment, so I will be enjoying it while I wait.


----------



## J4MES

Power cable has arrived. Now just waiting for the Carbon.


----------



## VandyMan

stillhart said:


> I know Alex addressed this question in this thread some time ago.  Some search-fu might find you the answer.  From memory, I think it's pure class-A through 1.5W but it will actually go higher than the rated 1.5 just in AB...  or something like that.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1860#post_11674458
  
 Apparently NOT class A to 1.5W. How much until it switches to AB seems to be unspecified, but MUCH less than full power. (" It does not stay in class A for very long before it transitions to AB")


----------



## GCTD

Is it ok to run this amp straight out of the wall?


----------



## Mr Rick

gctd said:


> Is it ok to run this amp straight out of the wall?


 
  
 What other way is there??


----------



## GCTD

mr rick said:


> What other way is there??


 
  
 Well, some use those fancy linear power supply dacs and amps. I wonder if those are really necessary.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

gctd said:


> Well, some use those fancy linear power supply dacs and amps. I wonder if those are really necessary.


 
  
 Not necessary, but I would consider a good surge protector at least...


----------



## doctorjazz

gctd said:


> mr rick said:
> 
> 
> > What other way is there??
> ...




That all depends on whether you EVER believe they are necessary, natch...


----------



## Stillhart

gctd said:


> Well, some use those fancy linear power supply dacs and amps. I wonder if those are really necessary.


 
  
 There was a big discussion about this a few hundred pages back.  I believe Alex said that this amp doesn't really need it due to the nature of the built-in power supply.  Someone else will have to confirm tho.


----------



## AustinValentine

I'd go for a Tripp Lite Isobar (~$40.00) just for the added assurance. But yeah, given the nature of Alex's custom SMPS, I'd expect that it's not going to benefit much from complex power conditioning or sanitizing gear. 
  


stillhart said:


> There was a big discussion about this a few hundred pages back.  I believe Alex said that this amp doesn't really need it due to the nature of the built-in power supply.  Someone else will have to confirm tho.


 
  
 This. He definitely mentioned it somewhere back there.
  
 Here I believe: http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1830#post_11671843 
  
 And here earlier: http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/855#post_11526720


----------



## musiclvr

@conquerator2 , does this post help?


runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...


----------



## warrenpchi

grizzlybeast said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, Jeff is correct.  Of course, I'd be happy to take another listen on the production Carbon and report back.  The only problem with that is the Omni I have here now is outdated.  I believe that Zach has updated it (changed the tuning).  If you're not in a rush, I can swap out the outdated Omni I have here for a more current one, and then jot down some impressions with the latest in both Carbon and Omni?
> ...


 
  
 Okay cool, will do!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


grizzlybeast said:


> I was also looking at the eddie current amp myself but jumped on the Carbon instead of saving up for it. Reason being is because I asked the price and it was said yet to be determined and who knows when it will be done with the new chassis.  I would still like to know the differences in:
> Power
> sound signature
> and if the performance difference would make the black widow a logical upgrade.


 
  
 Hmm, I'll be honest, I'm a little hesitant to say much here because the last time I heard a black widow was under meet conditions, about six months ago, and auditory memory being what it is... well, it just wouldn't be responsible of me to say something that might influence you to spend a certain way based on that, know what I mean?  But, I do remember this, it sounded VERY good.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That said, Austin mentioned that it's no longer available, so that might render the entire decision moot?
  
  
 Also, I've been checking in with Alex every few days on remaining Carbon "inventory" - and it appears that as of this morning, there are only 26 Carbons available for order.


----------



## Serenitty

austinvalentine said:


> I'd go for a Tripp Lite Isobar (~$40.00) just for the added assurance. But yeah, given the nature of Alex's custom SMPS, I'd expect that it's not going to benefit much from complex power conditioning or sanitizing gear.


 
  
 I went with one of these, not for any sound quality, just for the protection.  I also got the Tripp Lite IEC power cord to go with it, about $10-15 on Amazon.  It's a nice heavy power cord, but just an ordinary power cord...
  
 Everything sound just fine to me...


----------



## x RELIC x

warrenpchi, you need to start a Cavalli Liquid Carbon Inventory Countdown Thread.......


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> @warrenpchi, you need to start a Cavalli Liquid Carbon Inventory Countdown Thread.......


 
  
 Yeah, start it with 29 reserved posts and delete posts as they sell.


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> Yeah, start it with 29 reserved posts and delete posts as they sell.




Exactly, lol!


----------



## pippen99

+1 for Tripp Lite.  I had the good fortune to tind a Tripp Lite IS 500 brand new on Ebay for about 1/3 the MSRP.  Got it after Dan Clark recommended them.  Not sure I can tell a difference but I trust Dan's recommendations and it can't hurt.


----------



## GCTD

Well, doing some digging on other surge protectors I came across this Furman M-8X2 Merit Series 8 Outlet Power Conditioner and Surge Protector

I think I might go with this instead, but I appreciate the input ya'll.


----------



## yage

gctd said:


> Well, doing some digging on other surge protectors I came across this Furman M-8X2 Merit Series 8 Outlet Power Conditioner and Surge Protector
> 
> I think I might go with this instead, but I appreciate the input ya'll.


 
  
 I would go for their PL-8 series, though it is more in price. I had one and it protected my equipment from a surge. Clamping voltage for the PL-8 is lower at 188V, while the Merit has let-through of 400V.
  
 Also consider stuff from SurgeX or Zero Surge. (Checking the website, Zero Surge is offering a 10% off 'Cyber Monday' special through Dec. 6.) Bryston uses Zero Surge for surge suppression in their BIT line of power conditioners, which is what I'm using currently in my system.


----------



## GCTD

yage said:


> I would go for their PL-8 series, though it is more in price. I had one and it protected my equipment from a surge. Clamping voltage for the PL-8 is lower at 188V, while the Merit has let-through of 400V.
> 
> Also consider stuff from SurgeX or Zero Surge. (Checking the website, Zero Surge is offering a 10% off 'Cyber Monday' special through Dec. 6.) Bryston uses Zero Surge for surge suppression in their BIT line of power conditioners, which is what I'm using currently in my system.




Thanks, for the technical details.


----------



## ejong7

lmao how about we start a list of all carbon owners with their serials. then again that'll just make you a target for everyone else on headfi


----------



## buke9

gctd said:


> Thanks, for the technical details.


 
 I got this one I like a lot. More like a big power strip a little more compact. I got it two months ago and it was $20 dollars cheaper though.


----------



## x RELIC x

Confirmation email received!! WooHoo!!


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> Confirmation email received!! WooHoo!!


 
  Your order number?


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> Your order number?




#845, June 09.


----------



## warrenpchi

x relic x said:


> @warrenpchi, you need to start a Cavalli Liquid Carbon Inventory Countdown Thread.......


 
  
@Currawong would kill me.
  

  
 He already thinks there are way too many Carbon threads.  He's probably right.
  
  


x relic x said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > x relic x said:
> ...


 
  
 26  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


ejong7 said:


> lmao how about we start a list of all carbon owners with their serials. then again that'll just make you a target for everyone else on headfi


 
  
 Order #397.  Serial #00002.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


x relic x said:


> Confirmation email received!! WooHoo!!


 
  
 Congrats!


----------



## x RELIC x

Lol! The crow over the chick...... Love it!


----------



## purk

I talked to Terry yesterday and the remaining stock is very low and could sell out this weekend.  Hurry up guys and place the order soon!


----------



## doctorjazz

buke9 said:


> gctd said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, for the technical details.
> ...




Sounds like a good choice...I use their Elite-15 for my main stereo; it's a well regarded, not too expensive power conditioner. I may pick up one of these for the bedroom.


----------



## Maconi

Newb question. Is 1.5W per channel (Balanced) the same as 3W (Single), or is it not that simple? Taking a look at every amp I can find ~$500 and most seem to have trouble breaching 4W @ 30 Ohm without using tubes. If the conversion is that simple, that puts the LC at around ~4.5W (total) @ 30 Ohm right?


----------



## coastal1

Lol, don't know if this is shameless hype or what, but this is pretty funny. These could be the best amps under -<$1k ever and people will still sell them because they're not their style or just upgraditis



purk said:


> I talked to Terry yesterday and the remaining stock is very low and could sell out this weekend.  Hurry up guys and place the order soon!


----------



## ying

x relic x said:


> Confirmation email received!! WooHoo!!


 
 Ya!!!!!!!!!! I got my email today. Order #900 Shipping out December 8th!


----------



## defbear

ying said:


> Ya!!!!!!!!!! I got my email today. Order #900 Shipping out December 8th!


Congrats. You will love it. What dac will you pair it with?


----------



## adobotj

Yay!!! Its in the line of 9's (900) already! Exciting!


----------



## ying

I been using the Teac UD 301. Loving it with the Dsd functions. Not sure if i would need to upgrade that anytime soon? Using it with the HD800s.


----------



## Cardiiiii

adobotj said:


> Yay!!! Its in the line of 9's (900) already! Exciting!




Nice, I'm #959, nothing yet but should expect one in the next couple of days.


----------



## adobotj

cardiiiii said:


> Nice, I'm #959, nothing yet but should expect one in the next couple of days.




And I'm #956  will update when I get the email confirmation.


----------



## A2029

maconi said:


> Newb question. Is 1.5W per channel (Balanced) the same as 3W (Single), or is it not that simple? Taking a look at every amp I can find ~$500 and most seem to have trouble breaching 4W @ 30 Ohm without using tubes. If the conversion is that simple, that puts the LC at around ~4.5W (total) @ 30 Ohm right?




Nope, that's not how it works. The amp is rated at 1.5W per channel through the 4pin balanced XLR or 4pin kobiconn connection. If you use the TRS (the regular round plug slot), which is a "single ended" connection you get only half of the amp power per channel. When manufacturers list their power rating, they will always list the power rating into each channel (there is no such thing as a combined power output rating, except in speaker amps that can act as stereo amps as well as "monoblocks" (based on either having two or just one speaker connected, respectively) and can be rated for power output from the whole amp into a single channel).


----------



## Maconi

swich401 said:


> Nope, that's not how it works. The amp is rated at 1.5W per channel through the 4pin balanced XLR or 4pin kobiconn connection. If you use the TRS (the regular round plug slot), which is a "single ended" connection you get only half of the amp power per channel. When manufacturers list their power rating, they will always list the power rating into each channel (there is no such thing as a combined power output rating, except in speaker amps that can act as stereo amps as well as "monoblocks" (based on either having two or just one speaker connected, respectively) and can be rated for power output from the whole amp into a single channel).


 
 Ahh, I see (kinda lol). So do you mean 1.5W Single and 3W (L+R) Balanced or 750mW Single and 1.5W Balanced?


----------



## chefboyarlee

I'm sorry for being so late to the party.  SO...if there are only 500 total units, how are we in the 900s in terms of order numbers?  Even if it started off in the 300s...have there been that many cancelations? Or did they make way more than 500? I am getting really scared and feel like I need to order this weekend or I'll be left out in the cold. Just waiting for Zach to tell me how well the LC plays with my new Blackwood Zebras. Maybe I should just order it and cancel next week if Zach doesn't give it a HUGE thumbs up.
  
 So how would you spend your $300 Christmas present...sell the Lyr for the LC or upgrade from Uber to Bifrost multibit?


----------



## nudd

chefboyarlee said:


> I'm sorry for being so late to the party.  SO...if there are only 500 total units, how are we in the 900s in terms of order numbers?  Even if it started off in the 300s...have there been that many cancelations? Or did they make way more than 500? I am getting really scared and feel like I need to order this weekend or I'll be left out in the cold. Just waiting for Zach to tell me how well the LC plays with my new Blackwood Zebras. Maybe I should just order it and cancel next week if Zach doesn't give it a HUGE thumbs up.
> 
> So how would you spend your $300 Christmas present...sell the Lyr for the LC or upgrade from Uber to Bifrost multibit?




Apparently there are only 29 or so left regardless of whatthe serial number is. 

Nobody kniws what it sounds lije except for the first 100 or so that went out last week who may have found their owners unfortunately its buying on blind faith but i felt it was.worth the punt ...


----------



## sheldaze

nudd said:


> Apparently there are only 29 or so left regardless of whatthe serial number is.
> 
> Nobody kniws what it sounds lije except for the first 100 or so that went out last week who may have found their owners unfortunately its buying on blind faith but i felt it was.worth the punt ...


 
 There was a demonstration model released much earlier this year. I heard one of the demos at both an out-of-state Head-Fi meet, and was later fortunate enough to borrow a demo model for my local Head-Fi meet - meaning I could also hear it for myself at home.
  
 The demo was excellent! From the very short listening time I have had with my final version, after the 150 hours of burn-in, I would preliminary state the final released product could be even a small improvement over the demo. There are lots of reviews on Head-Fi with regards to the demo and a few initial impressions of the final released product. Read these to find comments from others on the sound.
  
 Simply stated in technical terms, the Liquid Carbon can be used with both single-ended and balanced analog input. If you are in the market for a headphone amplifier with balanced outputs, I highly recommend you get the Liquid Carbon. I am unaware of any better value - and it sounds quite good!


----------



## adobotj

chefboyarlee said:


> I'm sorry for being so late to the party.  SO...if there are only 500 total units, how are we in the 900s in terms of order numbers?  Even if it started off in the 300s...have there been that many cancelations? Or did they make way more than 500? I am getting really scared and feel like I need to order this weekend or I'll be left out in the cold. Just waiting for Zach to tell me how well the LC plays with my new Blackwood Zebras. Maybe I should just order it and cancel next week if Zach doesn't give it a HUGE thumbs up.
> 
> So how would you spend your $300 Christmas present...sell the Lyr for the LC or upgrade from Uber to Bifrost multibit?




There are only 500 total units. The order number are not reflective of the total units sold. The order number comprises of LC and other cavalli audio products. There were also some cancellations. 

And for the second question, the LC upgrade, specially if you have balanced cans in your arsenal.


----------



## nicolo

I had to cancel mine 
  
 Too many bills, medical and otherwise.


----------



## Youth

nicolo said:


> I had to cancel mine
> 
> Too many bills, medical and otherwise.


 
  
 Isn't it too late to cancel it now since it's December?


----------



## Punch Leez

maconi said:


> Newb question. Is 1.5W per channel (Balanced) the same as 3W (Single), or is it not that simple? Taking a look at every amp I can find ~$500 and most seem to have trouble breaching 4W @ 30 Ohm without using tubes. If the conversion is that simple, that puts the LC at around ~4.5W (total) @ 30 Ohm right?


 
  
 No, either unbalanced and balanced is having the same power. The only difference is the balanced has doubled voltage swing.
  
 Why you need so much power into 30ohm, even a 5seconds of 500mW into low sensitivity headphone can make your ears pain. We need no more than 1watt for dynamic attack or bass slam, unless you want this power to drive a speaker.


----------



## x RELIC x

Dr. Cavalli has covered this multiple times. This is his most recent post on the power output and noise floor regarding SE vs balanced out.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/15#post_12079424




runeight said:


> Hey guys, let's be a little more accurate about this. I'm not sure where 15-20% came from, but not from me.
> 
> *When operating in SE mode with the same load as Bal the amp will deliver 1/4 the power of the Balanced out. We've already had this conversation a few times.*
> 
> ...


----------



## nicolo

youth said:


> Isn't it too late to cancel it now since it's December?


 
  
 Canceled it last week


----------



## Punch Leez

"When operating in SE mode with the same load as Bal the amp will deliver 1/4 the power of the Balanced out. We've already had this conversation a few times."
  
 Balanced DO NOT increase the drive power. Do not challenge my 7 years EE knowledge.


----------



## x RELIC x

punch leez said:


> "When operating in SE mode with the same load as Bal the amp will deliver 1/4 the power of the Balanced out. We've already had this conversation a few times."
> 
> Balanced DO NOT increase the drive power. Do not challenge my 7 years EE knowledge.




Argue that with the designer of the amp. He has a few more years on you. :wink_face:

Edit: Again, straight from the designers mouth. This might help you understand the way he has implemented the SE vs balanced.




runeight said:


> Each channel of a balanced amp has two amplifiers in it (so four actual amps for a two channel amp). The output is taken as the difference between the outputs of the two amps in one channel. This is using the balanced output.
> 
> However, when you plug into the SE jack, because the headphone wiring is taking the signal from the output to ground, you can only use one of the amps in each channel. This is what I meant by half of each amp. You are only using 1 of the 2 amps in the channel because your phone connector and headphone wiring are forcing you to do that. There can be exceptions to this, such as a transformer output where the grounding is not an issue.
> 
> ...


----------



## Punch Leez

x relic x said:


> Argue that with the designer of the amp. He has a few more years on you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What he mean was, at the same within headroom volume level, the power deliver into the headphone is 1/4 times in unbalanced mode compare to balanced mode. 
  
 "Maximum Power: Approximately 1.5W into 50R from Balanced Out"
  
 Unbalanced and balanced have the equal output power. I can go pretty technical if you wish for.


----------



## x RELIC x

punch leez said:


> What he mean was, at the same volume level, the power deliver into the headphone is 1/4 times in unbalanced mode compare to balanced mode.
> 
> "Maximum Power: Approximately 1.5W into 50R from Balanced Out"
> 
> Unbalanced and balanced have the equal output power. I can go pretty technical if you wish for.




Hey, I'm just sharing what the good Dr. has said on the subject, I have nothing to prove here. Don't kill the messenger man.

Edit: By the way, Dr. Cavalli has said the Liquid Carbon can do much more than 1.5W into 50R. 1.5W is sustained power. Again, I'll listen to what the designer of the amp has shared.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1485#post_11607837




runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, this may be a little parsing of the language I used to convey the basic idea, but I appreciate the conversation. 
  
 At a given volume level the voltage swing from the balanced out is twice that of the SE out. For the same load in either jack, given that power goes as square of the voltage, the power delivered to the load from the balanced output will be 4 times the power from the SE output.
  
 If the amp is driven to its maximum voltage swing right before clipping this is still true.
  
 Can you get equal power out of the SE jack? You can. If you set the vol in balanced to create the same balanced voltage swing as you would get with a higher volume setting in SE mode then, because the voltage swings are equal and the load is the same, the power is the same. But, at some point you will run out of headroom to supply voltage to the SE jack, namely, as above, right before the amps clip. Also, since the vol pot is logarithmic just turning it twice the rotation does not necessarily give you twice the voltage output.
  
 Now, when you are using SE only, the balanced output is still making the full balanced voltage swing (twice the SE), but since half of it has no load and is, therefore, delivering no current into a load, the actual and useful power delivery out of the SE is 1/4 of what it would be if you were loading the full balanced out.
  
 Practically speaking in terms of what you can put into your ears, it's a fluid situation because, you can crank the amp up in SE mode to get pretty high volumes, while you may keep the vol pot lower in Bal mode to achieve the same audio levels.
  
 I don't know if this helps any more than previous posts, but I hope it does some.


----------



## Punch Leez

runeight said:


> Can you get equal power out of the SE jack? You can...
> 
> I don't know if this helps any more than previous posts, but I hope it does some.


 
  
 Thank you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This definitely help.


----------



## Cardiiiii

runeight I'm guessing since there are no more updates regarding the shipping of the rest of the amps everything is on track?


----------



## Stillhart

chefboyarlee said:


> I'm sorry for being so late to the party.  SO...if there are only 500 total units, how are we in the 900s in terms of order numbers?  Even if it started off in the 300s...have there been that many cancelations? Or did they make way more than 500? I am getting really scared and feel like I need to order this weekend or I'll be left out in the cold. Just waiting for Zach to tell me how well the LC plays with my new Blackwood Zebras. Maybe I should just order it and cancel next week if Zach doesn't give it a HUGE thumbs up.
> 
> So how would you spend your $300 Christmas present...sell the Lyr for the LC or upgrade from Uber to Bifrost multibit?


 
  
 So a few quick answers:
  
 1 - The order numbers are for all Cavalli products, not just the LC.
 2 - Cancellations will affect this too, you're right.  I understand some people have cancelled and reordered multiple times in the last few months.
 3 - You may be right, if you wait too long to order they will be gone.  There were 26 left yesterday.
 4 - I have tried all three Omni's, the Blackwoods and both versions of the x Vibro with the LC.  It pairs quite well with them.
 5 - Gratz on the Zebrawood!  Those are smexy!
 6 - I think both of your choices are good ones, but if you really want the LC, getting it later might not be an option.  You can always upgrade the Bifrost later (and I think you should!).
  
 Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## TON13

cardiiiii said:


> @runeight I'm guessing since there are no more updates regarding the shipping of the rest of the amps everything is on track?


 
  
 Just an FYI...received an email address verification last night stating my order #844 is set to ship the week of December 8th.


----------



## runeight

> Originally Posted by *runeight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Can you get equal power out of the SE jack? You can. If you set the vol in balanced to create the same balanced voltage swing as you would get with a higher volume setting in SE mode then, because the voltage swings are equal and the load is the same, the power is the same. But, at some point you will run out of headroom to supply voltage to the SE jack, namely, as above, right before the amps clip. Also, since the vol pot is logarithmic just turning it twice the rotation does not necessarily give you twice the voltage output.


 
  
 I think I need to clarify this a bit. You can get as much power from SE as Bal by adjusting the volume for a given headphone, probably most of the time.
  
 But, you cannot get the maximum power from the Carbon unless you are balanced. At any given volume setting, including full balanced output, the SE will always be 1/4 of the power.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Quote:


runeight said:


> I think I need to clarify this a bit. You can get as much power from SE as Bal by adjusting the volume for a given headphone, probably most of the time.
> 
> But, you cannot get the maximum power from the Carbon unless you are balanced. At any given volume setting, including full balanced output, the SE will always be 1/4 of the power.


 
 Since you are here...Give me my carbon dude... Ive been waiting one day already.


----------



## ejong7

grizzlybeast said:


> Since you are here...Give me my carbon dude... Ive been waiting one day already.


----------



## swspiers

Order #910.  Got my notice last night!


----------



## Maconi

Thanks runeight, that's basically what I wanted to know. I'm not interested in volume (most headphones can be driven to unhealthy volume levels with just milliwatts) but the power supplied for transients and etc. as you've described. I've noticed a massive difference in sound quality by going from a ~200mW @ 30Ω amp to a ~1W @ 30Ω amp (both Single Ended), along with freedom from clipping if I want to get silly with the EQ.
  
 If Audeze is releasing accurate information, my current pair of headphones (EL-8C) can handle up to 4W continuous without issue (and 15W max/spikes). They're so sensitive I have to use EQ to keep the volume under control (preamp) at higher power levels but you can really feel the music come alive when supplying it with generous amounts of power (I'm sure there's a point with diminishing returns, I may have already hit it at just over 1W but I've not had the chance to try more).


----------



## grizzlybeast

order # is 1168 




  
 better than order number 0


----------



## sheldaze

maconi said:


> Thanks runeight, that's basically what I wanted to know. I'm not interested in volume (most headphones can be driven to unhealthy volume levels with just milliwatts) but the power supplied for transients and etc. as you've described. I've noticed a massive difference in sound quality by going from a ~200mW @ 30Ω amp to a ~1W @ 30Ω amp (both Single Ended), along with freedom from clipping if I want to get silly with the EQ.
> 
> If Audeze is releasing accurate information, my current pair of headphones (EL-8C) can handle up to 4W continuous without issue (and 15W max/spikes). They're so sensitive I have to use EQ to keep the volume under control (preamp) at higher power levels but you can really feel the music come alive when supplying it with generous amounts of power (I'm sure there's a point with diminishing returns, I may have already hit it at just over 1W but I've not had the chance to try more).


 
 No issues from me, though I've been using the _balanced_ outputs from the Liquid Carbon into my EL-8C.
 My cable is from C3 Audio (Charleston Cable Company).


----------



## chefboyarlee

Order #1209.  I think they have to be in the teens remaining by now. I feel very lucky, and happy I didn't have the agonizing wait either.


----------



## amigastar

Even if I don't have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon i follow 2 threads here on Head-Fi.
 I just think this is a very interesting product alone through the limited 500 units and that Cavalli Amps are usually more expensive and of course I'm curious about how it sounds.


----------



## ejong7

Honestly how this amp is still not sold out is beyond me. Having NOT heard the LC before I received it it's probably the best investment in a non-headphone of this hobby that I've ever made yet. Closest thing to the Liquid Gold I've heard (although to be fair I've not heard the other wonderful products) so far. I thought that people from the CanJam SoCal would have swoop all of these already by now and hence I played a part in crashing the Cavalli site on day one to make sure I'm in line for one. Well I guess my gamble worked out.
  
 TL;DR JUST GET ON THIS HYPE TRAIN


----------



## MattTCG

^^ The only reason it not sold out is that the impressions are just starting to roll. But by that time it will be too late to grab one. Somewhat ironic...


----------



## zachawry

I'm kinda hoping that Dr. Cavalli sees the demand for an amp at this caliber, and decides to continue production but at a slightly higher price point to make it worth all the headaches. That way, I get to feel all the smarter for getting the early version.


----------



## nudd

zachawry said:


> I'm kinda hoping that Dr. Cavalli sees the demand for an amp at this caliber, and decides to continue production but at a slightly higher price point to make it worth all the headaches. That way, I get to feel all the smarter for getting the early version.


 
  
 Won't you feel even smarter if there were only 500 ever made and you were smart enough to be one of 500? ;D
  
 Anyway looking at Warren's post it appears that Dr Cavalli may be running this at very narrow or no margins, so even if it comes around again it would be at a rational price? I would feel kinda bad if he was making a loss out of the carbons ...


----------



## doctorjazz

It was supposed to be payback to the community for support, but, could it really be at a loss? I have no way of knowing, of course, but even if the profit is just minimal, if you figure in time and work involved, it would not be worthwhile. Again, really no way to know this.


----------



## AxelCloris

nudd said:


> Won't you feel even smarter if there were only 500 ever made and you were smart enough to be one of 500? ;D
> 
> Anyway looking at Warren's post it appears that Dr Cavalli may be running this at very narrow or no margins, so even if it comes around again it would be at a rational price? I would feel kinda bad if he was making a loss out of the carbons ...




When Alex first revealed the Carbon, he told us that the price of the first batch was a way of saying "thank you" to the community. I wouldn't be surprised to see this amp list for $300 or $400 more should another batch be ordered. No this is not the single greatest amp for every single headphone on the market, but it's an outright steal at $599.


----------



## warrenpchi

Gentlemen (and the four women lurking on Head-Fi), as of earlier this evening, there are 12 Liquid Carbons left.


----------



## Maconi

warrenpchi said:


> Gentlemen (and the four women lurking on Head-Fi), as of earlier this evening, there are 12 Liquid Carbons left.


 
  
 Make that 11. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This certainly is a big jump for me. I've went from an Oppo HA-2, to an iFi iDSD Micro, to buying the Cavalli Liquid Carbon, and now looking at DACs to pair it with. All that within a couple weeks. My wife is going to kill me lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So far (DAC wise), since the Schiit Yggdrasil is a bit out of my price range, it seems like it comes down to the Emotiva DC-1 (Balanced Delta-Sigma) vs the Audio-gd DAC-19 (Single-Ended R2R). It's a shame there's not a good Balanced R2R under $1k (that I can find at least). I'm currently leaning more towards the DC-1 so I get as much voltage out of the LC as possible.


----------



## warrenpchi

maconi said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Gentlemen (and the four women lurking on Head-Fi), as of earlier this evening, there are 12 Liquid Carbons left.
> ...


 
  
 Lol, welcome to Head-Fi.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sorry about your wallet!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


maconi said:


> This certainly is a big jump for me. I've went from an Oppo HA-2, to an iFi iDSD Micro, to buying the Cavalli Liquid Carbon, and now looking at DACs to pair it with. All that within a couple weeks. My wife is going to kill me lol.


 
  
 Be brave my brother, let us bolster each other's courage!  Actually, I know exactly what you mean.  Sometimes we climb the ladder of fidelity so fast that it's dizzying!
  


maconi said:


> So far (DAC wise), since the Schiit Yggdrasil is a bit out of my price range, it seems like it comes down to the Emotiva DC-1 (Balanced Delta-Sigma) vs the Audio-gd DAC-19 (Single-Ended R2R). It's a shame there's not a good Balanced R2R under $1k (that I can find at least). I'm currently leaning more towards the DC-1 so I get as much voltage out of the LC as possible.


 
  
 Actually, a lot of the guys here have reported very good results with an Emotive DC-1 and Carbon pairing.  At the same time, @Stillhart seems to enjoy a DAC-19 and Carbon pairing.  I haven't heard either so I can't say anything, but I'm sure someone will come along soon that can offer some insight.


----------



## zachawry

maconi said:


> Make that 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you're willing to stretch to $1250, the Gungnir Multibit will get you most of the way to the Yggy, or so they say....


----------



## Stillhart

maconi said:


> Make that 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


warrenpchi said:


> Actually, a lot of the guys here have reported very good results with an Emotive DC-1 and Carbon pairing.  At the same time, @Stillhart seems to enjoy a DAC-19 and Carbon pairing.  I haven't heard either so I can't say anything, but I'm sure someone will come along soon that can offer some insight.


 
  
  


zachawry said:


> If you're willing to stretch to $1250, the Gungnir Multibit will get you most of the way to the Yggy, or so they say....


 
  
 If you look in my signature, there's a comparison of the DAC-19 and the GMB that was done with the LC.  That should give you a nice list of pros and cons between the two.  Spoiler:  they're pretty much neck and neck but one of them costs 50% more than the other.
  
 The Emotiva is cheaper still.  I haven't heard it, but I haven't heard a single D-S DAC under $1000 that compares with the DAC-19.  YMMV


----------



## Maconi

stillhart said:


> If you look in my signature, there's a comparison of the DAC-19 and the GMB that was done with the LC.  That should give you a nice list of pros and cons between the two.  Spoiler:  they're pretty much neck and neck but one of them costs 50% more than the other.
> 
> The Emotiva is cheaper still.  I haven't heard it, but I haven't heard a single D-S DAC under $1000 that compares with the DAC-19.  YMMV


 
 Yeah, I was considering the GMB until I read your review earlier. Reading around others seem to feel roughly the same way. IMO it's not worth the extra $$$ just to get the Balanced output when the DAC-19 does so well.
  
 As far as the DAC-19 vs DC-1, I haven't been able to find much of a comparison. I've only come across a single post where a user says the DC-1 can compete with his Reference 1.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/644467/emotiva-stealth-dc-1-dac/450#post_11252434
  


elwappo99 said:


> The only think the NFB-28 will really have an edge in is the fact it has a balanced headphone amplifier, and I would venture a better SE headphone amp. *The DC-1 runs right up to my Audio-GD Reference 1 and puts up a good fight.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## nicolo

maconi said:


> Make that 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would suggest the Gustard X20 DAC which i think is $949 with USB. I find it far superior to the DAC-19 based on my listening preferences. It's DS DAC. However in terms of soundstaging, treble extension, dynamics, imaging and resolution it beats the DAC-19 all ends up IMO. There's no treble hash unlike many other Sabre based DACs. It just sounds pristine with a very balanced and transparent sound, perfect for the Liquid Carbon. My friend ordered one and since he was out of town, i had it with me for about a couple of weeks. It's the DAC i am going to get in a couple of months. I prefer a balanced and transparent sound profile which the X20 delivers in spades.


----------



## Hansotek

FWIW, lots of people were really feelin' that DAC-19 Carbon combo at RMAF. 

Also, I've had Bimby burned in for about a week now, and I must say, I'm really impressed. For $600, it's freakin' unbelievable.


----------



## x RELIC x

maconi said:


> Make that 11.
> 
> This certainly is a big jump for me. I've went from an Oppo HA-2, to an iFi iDSD Micro, to buying the Cavalli Liquid Carbon, and now looking at DACs to pair it with. All that within a couple weeks. My wife is going to kill me lol. :eek:
> 
> So far (DAC wise), since the Schiit Yggdrasil is a bit out of my price range, it seems like it comes down to the Emotiva DC-1 (Balanced Delta-Sigma) vs the Audio-gd DAC-19 (Single-Ended R2R). It's a shame there's not a good Balanced R2R under $1k (that I can find at least). I'm currently leaning more towards the DC-1 so I get as much voltage out of the LC as possible.




LOL!!!!! 

My wife actually knows the total of all the gear I've purchased since the Liquid Carbon (yes, I blame the Liquid Carbon).....

I should be homeless right now!! 





P.S. Really looking forward to the LC / DAC-19 combo myself. The DAC-19 (10th anv) is REALLY good.. It's the fine detail, the real low level resolution stuff that I love..


----------



## Maconi

nicolo said:


> I would suggest the Gustard X20 DAC which i think is $949 with USB. I find it far superior to the DAC-19 based on my listening preferences. It's DS DAC. However in terms of soundstaging, treble extension, dynamics, imaging and resolution it beats the DAC-19 all ends up IMO. There's no treble hash unlike many other Sabre based DACs. It just sounds pristine with a very balanced and transparent sound, perfect for the Liquid Carbon. My friend ordered one and since he was out of town, i had it with me for about a couple of weeks. It's the DAC i am going to get in a couple of months. I prefer a balanced and transparent sound profile which the X20 delivers in spades.


 
 Interesting. Until you mentioned the X20 I couldn't find anyone who preferred a DS DAC to R2R. Stillhart compared the GMB to the DAC-19 and said they were fairly close and you say you prefer the X20 over the DAC-19 (which means you'd likely feel the same way with the GMB). It also looks like you're not the only one:
    
 Quote:


nc42acc said:


> Comparing the X20U to the Schiit Gungnir multibit the X20 wins hands down in my system. Plus it does every DSD file I throw at it. Much better detail retrieval and sense of space top to bottom. YMMV


  

 Quote: 





nc42acc said:


> Yes I do own both and I tend to favor a detailed open airy soundstage which in my system the X20U does a better job. I am not saying the Gungnir is bad, it is very musical and analog sounding, it just doesn't excel in the areas I look for in a DAC. Hope this helps.


 
  
 For $800-$900 it's nearly the same price as the DAC-19. I'll have to read into it, thanks.


----------



## nicolo

It all comes down to the design, implementation, topology, chassis build, EMI/RF shielding etc. With so many variations in sound quality among R2R DACS and within DS DACs,i don't really get the debate pitting both R2R vs. DS DACs. To me blanket statements saying that one type is better than the other just seems myopic. To each his own i guess. Just listen to as many as you can and get the one you like.


----------



## Youth

Since you're new to head-fi let me give you an advice. Everyone is gonna recommend the DAC that they own/are planning to buy so take everything with a grain of salt and see if you can audition some before you decide. Guess what I'm gonna recommend


----------



## rocketron

Order # 1195 please hurry please hurry.


----------



## x RELIC x

youth said:


> Since you're new to head-fi let me give you an advice. Everyone is gonna recommend the DAC that they own/are planning to buy so take everything with a grain of salt and see if you can audition some before you decide. Guess what I'm gonna recommend




This is very true. However, from those that own/heard a few it's still good to receive feedback. Of course there is always going to be preferences.


----------



## Punch Leez

How about the exasound E22, I know this is expensive but they seems like a really good one time off candidate. I do not own it but i heard it once, it was connected to a horn speaker though.
  
 It is an amazing DAC, publishing measurements on website(which I believe a highly engineered product should do so!).


----------



## Glow Fish

warrenpchi said:


> Gentlemen (and the four women lurking on Head-Fi), as of earlier this evening, there are 12 Liquid Carbons left.





Gentlewomen.


----------



## conquerator2

Order #1169  
 For under a grand, I'd also recommend the DAC19 [would be my no.1 pick], Schiit Bimby MB [based on other's recommendations] or the Gustard X20 [based on my own experience with the X12].
 Those are all good solid choices... I just really happen to like the R2R Burr-Brown sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 When the Carbon is here, my setup will be PC -> Breeze DX-U8 -> Theta DS Pro Basic II -> LC -> HE1000.
  
 Right now I am using a beastly Audio-gd SA31SE. Power is not everything of course and the LC should be a synergistic hit. Funny comparing times ahead


----------



## WNBC

I Just got my pre-order in this morning!  Hopefully I got in since I was able to pay.    
  
 Several months ago I sold everything off except my Rockets to break the kid-in-the-candy-store syndrome   Now back in the hobby and definitely keeping it relatively humble.  Grado GH-1 coming and then the Carbon at some point.  Will read through this thread to see which DACs pair well with the Carbon, though I'm sure it won't be a problem to find a good match at any price level.  The wait for the Carbon is not even going to stress me out.  It's going to help keep me in check.


----------



## Shawnb

Seeing how many were left I just had to jump on this.
 I'll find the money somewhere, didn't really need a 2nd HPA but I couldn't pass this up. Damn exchange rate is killing me 
  
 I think I'm order #1217


----------



## warrenpchi

shawnb said:


> Seeing how many were left I just had to jump on this.




There are now only 6 left!


----------



## purk

warrenpchi said:


> There are now only 6 left!


 
 Better act fast people!


----------



## Shawnb

warrenpchi said:


> There are now only 6 left!




Wow. Really glad I grabbed one. Even at the exchange rate making it a $950 amp with shipping, it was still to good to pass up.


----------



## ejong7

warrenpchi said:


> There are now only 6 left!


 

 Are you on the line with the good doctor every hour? Do you have the list of all the people who bought it? What kind of sorcery is this.


----------



## grizzlybeast

You ordered right after me
*order # is 1168.*




 Quote:


conquerator2 said:


> Order #1169
> For under a grand, I'd also recommend the DAC19 [would be my no.1 pick], Schiit Bimby MB [based on other's recommendations] or the Gustard X20 [based on my own experience with the X12].
> Those are all good solid choices... I just really happen to like the R2R Burr-Brown sound
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am just going to keep my pulse x infinity and try the DAC section apart from the amp and see how it works with the LC. Im sure the Pulse Infinity at the price I was selling it at will definitely not be able to buy be a better stand a lone DAC.


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> I am just going to keep my pulse x infinity and try the DAC section apart from the amp and see how it works with the LC. Im sure the Pulse Infinity at the price I was selling it at will definitely not be able to buy be a better stand a lone DAC.


 


Spoiler: Mildly inappropriate and funny



I'll take the 69, thanks


 I am pretty psyched for the LC. There's really only one thing I slightly dislike about the HEK and am looking for an amp that would make it even less... dislikeable.
 I know the SA31SE is a great amp but I've had it for way too long... But I still hold it high and think will be difficult to beat.
 I'll be looking at an EF6 [or other transistor/tube/hybrid based designs] if the LC doesn't work for me, but I hope it will


----------



## chefboyarlee

It says contact sales@cavalli... That's all of 'em!


----------



## Stillhart

maconi said:


> Interesting. Until you mentioned the X20 I couldn't find anyone who preferred a DS DAC to R2R. Stillhart compared the GMB to the DAC-19 and said they were fairly close and you say you prefer the X20 over the DAC-19 (which means you'd likely feel the same way with the GMB). It also looks like you're not the only one:
> 
> For $800-$900 it's nearly the same price as the DAC-19. I'll have to read into it, thanks.


 
  
  


nicolo said:


> It all comes down to the design, implementation, topology, chassis build, EMI/RF shielding etc. With so many variations in sound quality among R2R DACS and within DS DACs,i don't really get the debate pitting both R2R vs. DS DACs. To me blanket statements saying that one type is better than the other just seems myopic. To each his own i guess. Just listen to as many as you can and get the one you like.


 
  
 Here's the thing about your statement above:  you said "it all comes down to..." and that's not true.  You've left out the one thing that D-S can't possibly do as well as R2R and that's to sound real.  
  
 This is a sweeping generalization, so take it with a grain of salt:  I've found that many people *I know *who have a strong preference for R2R are musicians.  They understand what their instrument should sound like and they know when they hear R2R that they weren't hearing it before with D-S.  For me it was drums (the cymbals are a dead giveaway).  For others, it might be an acoustic guitar or piano.
  
 That said, I certainly haven't heard every D-S DAC out there, especially ones over $1000.  But none that I've heard compares to R2R for pure tonal accuracy.  I'll have to see if I can track down an X20 at some point.  Luke loved his X12 so the X20 probably isn't all that bad.


----------



## Audio Addict

grizzlybeast said:


> I am just going to keep my pulse x infinity and try the DAC section apart from the amp and see how it works with the LC. Im sure the Pulse Infinity at the price I was selling it at will definitely not be able to buy be a better stand a lone DAC.




I am running balanced out of the Infinity to the LC.


----------



## MattTCG

stillhart said:


> Here's the thing about your statement above:  you said "it all comes down to..." and that's not true.  You've left out the one thing that D-S can't possibly do as well as R2R and that's to sound real.
> 
> This is a sweeping generalization, so take it with a grain of salt:  I've found that many people* I know who have a strong preference for R2R are musicians*. * They understand what their instrument should sound like and they know when they hear R2R that they weren't hearing it before with D-S.  For me it was drums (the cymbals are a dead giveaway).  For others, it might be an acoustic guitar or piano.*
> 
> That said, I certainly haven't heard every D-S DAC out there, especially ones over $1000.*  But none that I've heard compares to R2R for pure tonal accuracy*.  I'll have to see if I can track down an X20 at some point.  Luke loved his X12 so the X20 probably isn't all that bad.


 
 This +1000


----------



## doctorjazz

I've read good things about the Pulse Infinity dac, haven't heard it but some really like it.


----------



## grizzlybeast

audio addict said:


> I am running balanced out of the Infinity to the LC.


 
 I am very silly for judging it from the headphone balanced jack. I never read up on the thing and thought of it more like an nfb 28 where the amp is just as important as the dac. I should know better or have looked into it further. I am sure the DAC is great. I was also a bit overwhelmed by the sound signature and simple design and hope its just the amp and not the DAC. 
  
 What are your impressions of the pairing?


----------



## runeight

Hey folks, important update.
  
 We have stopped taking web orders. This is because our website doesn't have an automated way to limit the number to 500 and then stop.
  
 You'll note that it now says Contact Us. There are just a few amps left and if you want one we can do it through emails. Please write to sales@cavalliaudio.com
  
 Thanks everyone. Now keep our fingers crossed that the manuf team can meet their commitments next week!!


----------



## buke9

runeight said:


> Hey folks, important update.
> 
> We have stopped taking web orders. This is because our website doesn't have an automated way to limit the number to 500 and then stop.
> 
> ...


 
 My fingers have been crossed since 18 April. They're tired but still holding.


----------



## Shawnb

runeight said:


> Hey folks, important update.
> 
> We have stopped taking web orders. This is because our website doesn't have an automated way to limit the number to 500 and then stop.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is the expected turn around time for us that just ordered? It's to much to hope for it this year I'd assume or is it?


----------



## grizzlybeast

runeight said:


> Hey folks, important update.
> 
> We have stopped taking web orders. This is because our website doesn't have an automated way to limit the number to 500 and then stop.
> 
> ...



NEXT WEEK 

Woohooo! 

Yes I am intentionally reading too much into that.


----------



## runeight

shawnb said:


> What is the expected turn around time for us that just ordered? It's to much to hope for it this year I'd assume or is it?


 
  
 My intention and the schedule reiterated to the manuf team is that all 500 ship this year.


----------



## Audio Addict

grizzlybeast said:


> I am very silly for judging it from the headphone balanced jack. I never read up on the thing and thought of it more like an nfb 28 where the amp is just as important as the dac. I should know better or have looked into it further. I am sure the DAC is great. I was also a bit overwhelmed by the sound signature and simple design and hope its just the amp and not the DAC.
> 
> What are your impressions of the pairing?




While the LC is an improvement over the internal amp, if you did not like that, I would doubt the change to using the LC is going to change its sonics enough for you.


----------



## zachawry

youth said:


> Since you're new to head-fi let me give you an advice. Everyone is gonna recommend the DAC that they own/are planning to buy so take everything with a grain of salt and see if you can audition some before you decide. Guess what I'm gonna recommend


 

 I don't know what you're talking about. What I do know is that everyone who isn't running their LC with a Hugo, preferably my specific Hugo sitting right here next to me, is just wasting their time.


----------



## Stillhart

zachawry said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. What I do know is that everyone who isn't running their LC with a Hugo, preferably my specific Hugo sitting right here next to me, is just wasting their time.


 
  
 Well I would if you'd quit HOGGING it!


----------



## doctorjazz




----------



## Peridot

youth said:


> Since you're new to head-fi let me give you an advice. Everyone is gonna recommend the DAC that they own/are planning to buy so take everything with a grain of salt and see if you can audition some before you decide.


 
  
 I think that excellent advice sums up most "recommend me" threads here and everywhere else but for a bit of fun I'm going to ask for recommendations of headphones to pair with the LC.
  
 In recent months I've been getting into headphone listening more and more. I've got various bits and pieces of gear with best headphones currently B&W P7s.
  
 I want to move things up a few notches and, in addition to the LC, have bought an Emotiva Stealth DAC. I'm also likely to purchase the FiiO X7 or Onkyo DP-X1 DAP at some point.
  
 I need a closed-back over-ear headphone that is comfortable to wear for extended periods. Aesthetics aren't particularly important, but I'd like something that can be at least seen in public (on the train, not walking about).
  
 I listen to all types of music but predominately rock/indie. I maintain a lossless library and also listen to Tidal (Hi-Fi) and Spotify. I generally favour neutrality and clear vocals/mids. 
  
 I want something that's a 'keeper' and am prepared to stretch the budget accordingly. Current plan would be to make do with the P7s while I save up for something like the Ether-Cs but that's likely to be a year away.
  
 What else should be seriously considering as an 'end game' or 'stop gap" to pair with the LC?
  
 I hope this is not too OT ... I could ask on the headphone sections, but all the nicest folk on Head-Fi seem to be here


----------



## XenHeadFi

peridot said:


> I need a closed-back over-ear headphone that is comfortable to wear for extended periods. Aesthetics aren't particularly important, but I'd like something that can be at least seen in public (on the train, not walking about).


 
http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-buying-guide <-- Keanex and company have made a good start. You are probably look at the mid-range closed.
  
 There's a youtube guy called "Lachlan" who does reviews of equipment that sounds like they would be interest to you.


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> I think that excellent advice sums up most "recommend me" threads here and everywhere else but for a bit of fun I'm going to ask for recommendations of headphones to pair with the LC.
> 
> In recent months I've been getting into headphone listening more and more. I've got various bits and pieces of gear with best headphones currently B&W P7s.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ether C is, IMO, one of the best closed headphones you can buy, period.  For something a little cheaper as a stopgap, there are things like the Oppo PM-3, A-T MSR7, ZMF x Vibro mk ii, Massdrop Fostex TH-X00, SoundMAGIC HP150, etc.  Since nothing really sounds bad with a transparent amp, I'd say all of those will sound good with the LC.  
  
 If you want the best sound from the LC, tho, I'd suggest looking only at the ones that can be run in balanced mode.  So PM-3, Vibro, possibly the Foxtex (can someone confirm?).  There are plenty of others, but that's off the top of my head.
  
 EDIT - Oh and the new Beyerdynamix DT1770 is fantastic.


----------



## doctorjazz

Love the Hifiman HE-1000, expensive, though. I haven't heard them, but many feel the HEX gets you most of the way to HE-1000.


----------



## Dave74

zachawry said:


> I don't know what you're talking about. What I do know is that everyone who isn't running their LC with a Hugo, preferably my specific Hugo sitting right here next to me, is just wasting their time.


 

 I'm hoping the Hugo is good with the LC... It's what I am planning on using with mine when it gets here.


----------



## AustinValentine

stillhart said:


> Ether C is, IMO, one of the best closed headphones you can buy, period.  For something a little cheaper as a stopgap, there are things like the Oppo PM-3, A-T MSR7, ZMF x Vibro mk ii, Massdrop Fostex TH-X00, SoundMAGIC HP150, etc.  Since nothing really sounds bad with a transparent amp, I'd say all of those will sound good with the LC.
> 
> If you want the best sound from the LC, tho, I'd suggest looking only at the ones that can be run in balanced mode.  So PM-3, Vibro, possibly the Foxtex (can someone confirm?).  There are plenty of others, but that's off the top of my head.


 
  
 The Fostex just needs a cable re-termination to 4 pin XLR (it's hardwired). I'd add the Blackwood, Omni (semi-closed like the fostex), Paradox & Paradox Slants, and the Enigma to the list as well. Lots of great closed choices for the LC.


----------



## DecentLevi

Hi guys, my LC is arriving soon and I don't have a balanced cable for my HD 650. But my finances are a 'vacuum' right now so I'm really hoping to find one either dirt-cheap or as a trade.
  
 Does any of you have an extra balanced cable that's compatible with the Senn. HD 5xx or 6xx series? If so please PM me for a possible trade - I have bunches of extra tubes and 1-2 headphones I wouldn't mind parting with. Otherwize any super cheap links to buy one would be cool. Thanks


----------



## zachawry

dave74 said:


> I'm hoping the Hugo is good with the LC... It's what I am planning on using with mine when it gets here.


 
  
 Well, we know the Hugo is good. The question is, will the LC provide a meaningful boost to the sound versus the Hugo itself? Many on the Hugo thread would say no, because the built-in amp on the Hugo is just the analog stage of the DAC itself, so all you are doing is adding a layer of distortion. I have no idea about the validity of this because all that technical stuff is way above my head. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Either way, I'm looking forward to my LC very much.


----------



## aamefford

peridot said:


> ...I want to move things up a few notches and, in addition to the LC, have bought an Emotiva Stealth DAC. I'm also likely to purchase the FiiO X7 or Onkyo DP-X1 DAP at some point.
> 
> I need a closed-back over-ear headphone that is comfortable to wear for extended periods. Aesthetics aren't particularly important, but I'd like something that can be at least seen in public (on the train, not walking about)....


 
 I am a huge fan of the PM-3's.  I did sell them to do some gear juggling - very likely to the Ether C and a couple of other things.  I will repurchase the PM-3's again.  Great $400-ish closed headphone for travel, out and about, and for good, solid mid-fi listening.  I had the PM-3 and the Alpha Prime at the same time.  At full price for the Prime, (before the big discounts to make room for the Ethers) the Primes were better, but definitely not almost $600 better.  Not $300 better either.  The PM-3 is a really good headphone, and hits my sound signature pretty well.  YMMV, of course.


----------



## jarnopp

decentlevi said:


> Hi guys, my LC is arriving soon and I don't have a balanced cable for my HD 650. But my finances are a 'vacuum' right now so I'm really hoping to find one either dirt-cheap or as a trade.
> 
> Does any of you have an extra balanced cable that's compatible with the Senn. HD 5xx or 6xx series? If so please PM me for a possible trade - I have bunches of extra tubes and 1-2 headphones I wouldn't mind parting with. Otherwize any super cheap links to buy one would be cool. Thanks




I picked this one up for my hd-565s and no complaints:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2QJLY8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00


----------



## Maconi

Closed (or Semi-Closed) under $1k I'd take a look at either the Massdrop x Fostex TH-X00 or the Audeze EL-8C.


----------



## Dave74

zachawry said:


> Well, we know the Hugo is good. The question is, will the LC provide a meaningful boost to the sound versus the Hugo itself? Many on the Hugo thread would say no, because the built-in amp on the Hugo is just the analog stage of the DAC itself, so all you are doing is adding a layer of distortion. I have no idea about the validity of this because all that technical stuff is way above my head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh,  I thought you had your LC already, hopefully it won't be much longer
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do love my Hugo as well...  I've read a lot about the Hugo DAC/Amp stage in the Mojo thread as well, and most say you are only degrading the signal when externally amping the Hugo/Mojo.   That being said when I have tried my HE-500 or Alhpa Dogs out of my Hugo I wasn't really happy with them, as they seemed to be lacking dynamics as opposed to using Hugo as a DAC to my BHA-1. Call it distortion or call it coloured, but it definitely sounded better to my ears when externally amped.   Most of my earphones and easier to drive headphones sound great directly out of the Hugo though.
  
 I'm really looking forward to receiving my Carbon as well and  I'm hoping it will also play well with my IEM's.


----------



## nicolo

Has anyone here heard the Philips A5Pro headphones? Thinking of getting one as according to the cnet review it seems to have a balacned and detailed sound.


----------



## Currawong

Fostex TH-X00 discussion, as well as posts about other headphones that followed up, has been moved to the main thread about it.


----------



## Peridot

Thanks for all the pointers on headphones - gives me plenty to mull over.
  
 I'll follow up in the appropriate threads. - will help pass the time waiting for that dispatch email from Cavalli


----------



## warrenpchi

ejong7 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > There are now only 6 left!
> ...


 

 I asked him to keep me updated, lol.


----------



## doctorjazz

Are they officially sold out?


----------



## m usicguy

I saw where Cavalli wanted to have all amps shipped by the end of December.  I think it was on their sponsored page.
  
 Would anybody like to post their order number and if they got their amp yet.  Maybe we can tell how far things are along.  my order number is 1204  ordered dec 4th.  Like many here cant wait to get mine.   
  
 musicguy


----------



## DigitalFreak

Check it out boys, the Carbon got my writers choice award
http://headphone.guru/headphone-guru-2015-awards-best-of-the-best/


----------



## MattTCG

digitalfreak said:


> Check it out boys, the Carbon got my writers choice award
> http://headphone.guru/headphone-guru-2015-awards-best-of-the-best/


 
  
 And well deserved IMO.


----------



## faran

j4mes said:


> Power cable has arrived. Now just waiting for the Carbon.




Hi James, which power lead is that? I ended up going for the basic IsoTek EVO3 Premier one for my Carbon.


----------



## J4MES

faran said:


> Hi James, which power lead is that? I ended up going for the basic IsoTek EVO3 Premier one for my Carbon.




It was made by Toxic Cables. I don't know if it has a model name. He was making me 2 sets of balanced cables and I asked for a power cable aswell.


----------



## faran

j4mes said:


> It was made by Toxic Cables. I don't know if it has a model name. He was making me 2 sets of balanced cables and I asked for a power cable aswell.




Ok cheers. I will check them out. I got all my balanced cables made by John from Surf Cables in the US. 

DHL made two attempts to deliver and I still haven't received them but John was a real gent and a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## aqsw

Audio Nirvana

For the price of the LC it does a very admirable job. 
Great SS amp. Doesn't get much time but it sounds fantastic.


----------



## doctorjazz

Pretty cool looking!


----------



## aqsw

doctorjazz said:


> Pretty cool looking!




Thanks Doc!


----------



## DecentLevi

@aqsw so I take it your LC isn't getting much time compared to your Feliks Audio Elise with TOTL tubes?


----------



## adobotj

Did any of you guys receive an address email confirmation yet? Seems like December 8 shipments was only up to order number 900. I haven't received the email yet. Order #956 here. How about you @cardii? Received an email already?


----------



## DecentLevi

I got verification for my order #919 on Dec. 4th and they seem to on on-track for making delivery of all order by the end of this month.


----------



## stjj89

adobotj said:


> Did any of you guys receive an address email confirmation yet? Seems like December 8 shipments was only up to order number 900. I haven't received the email yet. Order #956 here. How about you @cardii? Received an email already?


 
  
 Order #927 and still no confirmation e-mail here.


----------



## adobotj

Okay thanks guys! Seems like the latest and farthest is yours @decentlevi at order 919. Apologies for sounding impatient. I'm just really excited to get mine.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Nothing here yet. Should hear from them in the next couple of days I should think.


----------



## aqsw

decentlevi said:


> @aqsw so I take it your LC isn't getting much time compared to your Feliks Audio Elise with TOTL tubes?


 
 I burned the LC in and haven't really listened to it very much. The Elise is getting all my time, but that's not a knock on the LC. The LC is the best sounding SS amp
 I have ever owned.


----------



## Youth

aqsw said:


> I burned the LC in and haven't really listened to it very much. The Elise is getting all my time, but that's not a knock on the LC. The LC is the best sounding SS amp
> I have ever owned.


 
  
 You've got bothe the LC and Feliks Elise... I hope it's okay that I'm a little jealous


----------



## zaintachik

Mine stuck in customs. Darn it, gotta rescue it this weekend.


----------



## sujitsky

zaintachik said:


> Mine stuck in customs. Darn it, gotta rescue it this weekend.




I know that feel. Mine is sitting with the nice folks at Polish customs.


----------



## stvn758

How does this sound with Sennheiser HD800's. Trying to find an affordable balanced amp is annoying, especially one with dual three pin XLR's on the front. Might have to sacrifice convenience for value for money.


----------



## Stillhart

stvn758 said:


> How does this sound with Sennheiser HD800's. Trying to find an affordable balanced amp is annoying, especially one with dual three pin XLR's on the front. Might have to sacrifice convenience for value for money.


 
  
 It sounds very good with the HD800.  I normally don't like that headphone, but with the LC and DAC-19 combo, I was really digging it.  It was surprising!
  
@Evshrug can corroborate.
  
 (Also, search is your friend.  This has been addressed before in this thread.)


----------



## MattTCG

stillhart said:


> It sounds very good with the HD800.  I normally don't like that headphone, but with the LC and DAC-19 combo, I was really digging it.  It was surprising!
> 
> @Evshrug can corroborate.
> 
> (Also, search is your friend.  This has been addressed before in this thread.)


 
  
 Is DAC 19 your primary?


----------



## bearFNF

stvn758 said:


> How does this sound with Sennheiser HD800's. Trying to find an affordable balanced amp is annoying, especially one with dual three pin XLR's on the front. Might have to sacrifice convenience for value for money.



Just to be clear, the carbon has 4 pin XLR output not dual 3 pin. The dual three pin is the input and is on the back. Just to make sure you know.


----------



## stvn758

bearfnf said:


> Just to be clear, the carbon has 4 pin XLR output not dual 3 pin. The dual three pin is the input and is on the back. Just to make sure you know.


 
 Yep.
  
 Currently have my cable connected to the back of my Audiolab MDAC via some female to female XLR adaptors. They are rather ungainly though.


----------



## Hoztel

I got my shipping email today....although i wasn't home yet, went out early only to see that the amps delivery would be made today by end of the day LOL
 soo looks like ill have my LC later on today.....currently camped out in the garage with the door open just waiting patiently hah


----------



## x RELIC x

hoztel said:


> I got my shipping email today....although i wasn't home yet, went out early only to see that the amps delivery would be made today by end of the day LOL
> soo looks like ill have my LC later on today.....currently camped out in the garage with the door open just waiting patiently hah




Lol!


----------



## Hoztel

x relic x said:


> Lol!


 

 haha no joke tho a fed ex dude already came at my next door neighbors and i was like... "i know your stopping here next" and he said "nope must be the next truck" so yeah but hopefully the next truck comes soon but it says by the end of the day so i could be sitting here for a few more hours hah


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

hoztel said:


> I got my shipping email today....although i wasn't home yet, went out early only to see that the amps delivery would be made today by end of the day LOL
> soo looks like ill have my LC later on today.....currently camped out in the garage with the door open just waiting patiently hah




You received the shipment email just today? May I ask what order number you were? I received the order confirmation that mine would ship out the week of the 8th but no notice as of yet. I'm order 721. Still early in CA tho so there's time I guess


----------



## Hoztel

idsynchrono_24 said:


> You received the shipment email just today? May I ask what order number you were? I received the order confirmation that mine would ship out the week of the 8th but no notice as of yet. I'm order 721. Still early in CA tho so there's time I guess


 

 my order was #671 
 im also really close to the shipping location if i remember correctly where they said it was. (only about 30 minute drive)


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> Is DAC 19 your primary?


 
  
 Yes.  I'm extremely satisfied with it and don't see myself upgrading anytime soon.  Next jump will have to be Master-7/Yggy level and I don't need to spend that much atm.


----------



## buke9

hoztel said:


> I got my shipping email today....although i wasn't home yet, went out early only to see that the amps delivery would be made today by end of the day LOL
> soo looks like ill have my LC later on today.....currently camped out in the garage with the door open just waiting patiently hah


 
 So the next shipment is shipping? #683 here. No email yet.


----------



## Hoztel

buke9 said:


> So the next shipment is shipping? #683 here. No email yet.


 
 i got my email at around noon today saying shipment info was received at 7pm last night. so to me looks like the shipping has started. My delivery status changed to pending though so well see if it comes in the next 2 hours or so if not probably tomorrow. 

 did you get the email to confirm your shipping address at least?


----------



## buke9

hoztel said:


> i got my email at around noon today saying shipment info was received at 7pm last night. so to me looks like the shipping has started. My delivery status changed to pending though so well see if it comes in the next 2 hours or so if not probably tomorrow.
> 
> did you get the email to confirm your shipping address at least?


 
 Got the confirm email like two weeks ago. If it says pending that means tomorrow sorry.


----------



## zaintachik

sujitsky said:


> I know that feel. Mine is sitting with the nice folks at Polish customs.


 
 I wouldve gone last weekend but our post office is closed the 1st Saturday of the month


----------



## Hoztel

buke9 said:


> Got the confirm email like two weeks ago. If it says pending that means tomorrow sorry.


 

 Theres a late night truck for fed ex that doesn't come for another 2 hours....lol, so thats not actually true until they change the status as this happened with my computer and the other fed ex guys today said they have trucks going past 7pm tonight. 

 It all depends where you live who they shipped it with etc. if you haven't gotten tracking yet maybe it means they are shipping to the closest US customers first or the label just wasn't put in the system yet. Like i originally said the label says it was created last night at 7pm so they might be working on getting the all in the mail today and yesterday of course. since i live so close to the shipping origin that could be the reason I've already received my tracking notice?


----------



## buke9

hoztel said:


> Theres a late night truck for fed ex that doesn't come for another 2 hours....lol, so thats not actually true until they change the status as this happened with my computer and the other fed ex guys today said they have trucks going past 7pm tonight.
> 
> It all depends where you live who they shipped it with etc. if you haven't gotten tracking yet maybe it means they are shipping to the closest US customers first or the label just wasn't put in the system yet. Like i originally said the label says it was created last night at 7pm so they might be working on getting the all in the mail today and yesterday of course. since i live so close to the shipping origin that could be the reason I've already received my tracking notice?


 
 Waiting since April so it is getting close . I hope it comes tonight but what is another day after this long.


----------



## mandrake50

#690 here. Got the address confirmation a week or so back. No shipping notice as of yet. Did runeight say they were shipping from Texas?


----------



## Hoztel

buke9 said:


> Waiting since April so it is getting close . I hope it comes tonight but what is another day after this long.


 

 Yeah i hope it comes tonight as well, but exactly one more day is nothing ha.
 but its nice to know the orders are going out!!
 I've also been waiting since April, pre ordered mine the second day they were available you must have ordered yours just after mine with your order number being like 12 orders away, so don't stress you should get an email soon.


----------



## Hoztel

mandrake50 said:


> #690 here. Got the address confirmation a week or so back. No shipping notice as of yet. Did runeight say they were shipping from Texas?


 

 No texas is the RETURN Address. the shipping origin i believe was southern California


----------



## mandrake50

hoztel said:


> No texas is the RETURN Address. the shipping origin i believe was southern California


 

 I am in Colorado... probably two days either way. He di say they were using USPS Right?


----------



## Hoztel

mandrake50 said:


> I am in Colorado... probably two days either way. He di say they were using USPS Right?


 

 My notice came from Fed Ex


----------



## zaintachik

It may have been posted before the past week the thread has been moving quite fast since the LC strated shipping out. I just bought a Chord Mojo so wondering anybody used the chord mojo as a dac feeding to LC. I remember ppl talking about double amping even the guy that was selling was cautioning me about that. And waht kind of cable do i need, some recommendations would be nice. Cheers gents


----------



## mandrake50

hoztel said:


> My notice came from Fed Ex


 

 It seems several have talked about waiting for the FedEx truck.. Maybe he changed it.  There was this thread where Alex mentioned he trusted USPS more... then several folks talked about horror stories with USPS.
  
 Did you elect for any special shipping?


----------



## Maconi

All these people talking about their #500/600 orders and I'm over here with an order # of 1000001212. What does that mean? lol
  
 Do PayPal orders get assigned different numbers?


----------



## Hoztel

zaintachik said:


> It may have been posted before the past week the thread has been moving quite fast since the LC strated shipping out. I just bought a Chord Mojo so wondering anybody used the chord mojo as a dac feeding to LC. I remember ppl talking about double amping even the guy that was selling was cautioning me about that. And waht kind of cable do i need, some recommendations would be nice. Cheers gents


 

 been wondering a bit of the same especially connecting my only dac that is the centrance portable single ended. I'm wondering because it has over a 1w or so i can't remember right now...but don't know if i should just keep that as a portable setup and get a new dac for the carbon and just plug it straight into my devices until i purchase a new dac?
 Anyone that can give me a tip on this that would be sick! i remember Alex saying single ended dac's will work (i think its been a minute since i've been but i don't remember anything about power output of those or any dac.


mandrake50 said:


> It seems several have talked about waiting for the FedEx truck.. Maybe he changed it.  There was this thread where Alex mentioned he trusted USPS more... then several folks talked about horror stories with USPS.
> 
> Did you elect for any special shipping?


 
 no i pre ordered mine the second day and did whatever the standard shipping was but that was also back in april so i can't 100% say i didn't choose fed ex. but its not like me to choose fed ex so it must have changed? not sure


----------



## x RELIC x

maconi said:


> All these people talking about their #500/600 orders and I'm over here with an order # of 1000001212. What does that mean? lol
> 
> Do PayPal orders get assigned different numbers?




It means that you'll more than likely get yours before the new year and will have waited much less than the majority of owners. :wink_face:


----------



## Hoztel

maconi said:


> All these people talking about their #500/600 orders and I'm over here with an order # of 1000001212. What does that mean? lol
> 
> Do PayPal orders get assigned different numbers?


 

 your order number is the last 4 digits so example my order number was 671 but looked like 100000671 or whatever so take away the 0's and you have #1212


----------



## mscott58

zaintachik said:


> It may have been posted before the past week the thread has been moving quite fast since the LC strated shipping out. I just bought a Chord Mojo so wondering anybody used the chord mojo as a dac feeding to LC. I remember ppl talking about double amping even the guy that was selling was cautioning me about that. And waht kind of cable do i need, some recommendations would be nice. Cheers gents


 
 So I mentioned this in a few threads earlier today (so apologies for those that have heard me talking about this already) but the Mojo and the LC make a wonderful combination, and for the combined price of $1198 (at least here in the US) IMHO the two of them together rival or beat systems I've heard that cost much more. The LC takes the very musical sound of the Mojo and gives it just a bit more weight and impact. The Mojo's FPGA DAC/amp is a wonder of engineering, and even though it outputs SE, the phase-splitter in the LC preps the signal and makes it output wonderfully into balanced headphones (my LCD-3F's are working amazingly well with the LC/Mojo). As for how to connect them, you can simply run a short line of 3.5mm TRS to 3.5mm TRS patch cord. I use the ALO SXC22 as that's what I have on me from my old portable stack. Sure almost any quality mini to mini patch cord would work fine. Alternatively you can use a 3.5mm TRS to RCA if you want to plug into the LC's RCA inputs instead of the 3.5mm TRS plug. I'm in the process of having Trevor at Norne Audio whip me up a custom 3.5mm TRS to dual RCA cord using his cable magic-making skills. The great thing about this combo is that it's a bit like a swiss-army knife:
  
 1. The Mojo is an amazing on-the-road device that can be the center of a great highly-portable stack, and I use it as such in combination with an AK100, connected via a Sys Concept optical cable. 
 2. The LC is good enough to also act as a great desktop amp that can be fed by and drive about anything, given it's adjustable gain, it's balanced and SE inputs and it's balanced and SE outputs. Plugged into the LC the Mojo can also make for a great desktop system if fed by your computer or even a DAP. 
 3. The LC/Mojo combo is a great transportable system as well, due to the LC's transportable size. i wouldn't carry it on a plane (would be hard to plug the LC into a wall socket!) but in a hotel room it would be a great road-warrior setup.  
  
 It slices, it dices, it sounds flippin' awesome and punches way above its weight IME. 
  
 Hope this helps and cheers


----------



## mandrake50

hoztel said:


> been wondering a bit of the same especially connecting my only dac that is the centrance portable single ended. I'm wondering because it has over a 1w or so i can't remember right now...but don't know if i should just keep that as a portable setup and get a new dac for the carbon and just plug it straight into my devices until i purchase a new dac?
> Anyone that can give me a tip on this that would be sick! i remember Alex saying single ended dac's will work (i think its been a minute since i've been but i don't remember anything about power output of those or any dac.
> no i pre ordered mine the second day and did whatever the standard shipping was but that was also back in april so i can't 100% say i didn't choose fed ex. but its not like me to choose fed ex so it must have changed? not sure


 

 You did not mention the model..
 Does it have the ability to output a line level signal? Even the little Meridian Explorer  and the Geek Out 1000 that I have can do that. If so, the amp output into the headphone out will not matter. This guy: DACport HD has specs that say the 1/8" out can be used as a headphone or line out. Just configure it to be used as a line out... I think.


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> So I mentioned this in a few threads earlier today (so apologies for those that have heard me talking about this already) but the Mojo and the LC make a wonderful combination, and for the combined price of $1198 (at least here in the US) IMHO the two of them together rival or beat systems I've heard that cost much more. The LC takes the very musical sound of the Mojo and gives it just a bit more weight and impact. The Mojo's FPGA DAC/amp is a wonder of engineering, and even though it outputs SE, the phase-splitter in the LC preps the signal and makes it output wonderfully into balanced headphones (my LCD-3F's are working amazingly well with the LC/Mojo). As for how to connect them, you can simply run a short line of 3.5mm TRS to 3.5mm TRS patch cord. I use the ALO SXC22 as that's what I have on me from my old portable stack. Sure almost any quality mini to mini patch cord would work fine. Alternatively you can use a 3.5mm TRS to RCA if you want to plug into the LC's RCA inputs instead of the 3.5mm TRS plug. I'm in the process of having Trevor at Norne Audio whip me up a custom 3.5mm TRS to dual RCA cord using his cable magic-making skills. The great thing about this combo is that it's a bit like a swiss-army knife:
> 
> 1. The Mojo is an amazing on-the-road device that can be the center of a great highly-portable stack, and I use it as such in combination with an AK100, connected via a Sys Concept optical cable.
> 2. The LC is good enough to also act as a great desktop amp that can be fed by and drive about anything, given it's adjustable gain, it's balanced and SE inputs and it's balanced and SE outputs. Plugged into the LC the Mojo can also make for a great desktop system if fed by your computer or even a DAP.
> ...


 
  
 Out of curiosity, do you prefer the Mojo or the CDM (ignoring price for a moment)?


----------



## Hoztel

mandrake50 said:


> You did not mention the model..
> Does it have the ability to output a line level signal? Even the little Meridian Explorer  and the Geek Out 1000 that I have can do that. If so, the amp output into the headphone out will not matter. This guy: DACport HD has specs that say the 1/8" out can be used as a headphone or line out. Just configure it to be used as a line out... I think.


 
 Yeah sorry i have the CEntrance DACport mini, like just the portable normal one not the HD one.
 And configured to be line out for the amp what would you guys suggest to use to i guess split the single end and go in through rca or xlr? 
 really more concerned about the way its being connected and making sure the power of the CEntrance isn't a problem with it being a "dac and amp" and because its single ended wanted to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid when my carbon arrives ha. I'm still fairly new to all this so excuse me if this has been addressed more in detail.


----------



## mandrake50

hoztel said:


> Yeah sorry i have the CEntrance DACport mini, like just the portable normal one not the HD one.
> And configured to be line out for the amp what would you guys suggest to use to i guess split the single end and go in through rca or xlr?
> really more concerned about the way its being connected and making sure the power of the CEntrance isn't a problem with it being a "dac and amp" and because its single ended wanted to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid when my carbon arrives ha. I'm still fairly new to all this so excuse me if this has been addressed more in detail.


 

 Guys in the impressions thread were talking about using the Mojo with a simple TRS mini to TRS mini cable. I
  
 didn't remember the LC having a mini TRS jack  for input, but that conversation would indicate that it does.
 Found a picture... see the label 3.5?


----------



## x RELIC x

mandrake50 said:


> Guys in the impressions thread were talking about using the Mojo with a simple TRS mini to TRS mini cable. I
> 
> didn't
> remember the LC having a mini TRS jack  for input, but that conversation would indicate that it does.
> Found a picture... see the label 3.5?




See the 3.5 right next to the RCA input.... :wink_face:

It's also listed in the specs on the Cavalli site.


Edit: Your edit fu is faster than my reply fu.


----------



## Hoztel

x relic x said:


> See the 3.5 right next to the RCA input....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 my dac is only quarter inch out se. so what adapt down to 3.5m?


----------



## Cardiiiii

I want my address confirmation email nowwwwww


----------



## x RELIC x

hoztel said:


> my dac is only quarter inch out se. so what adapt down to 3.5m?




3.5mm and RCA input are the same signal path so just pick up something like this:




Or this:



Ot this:


----------



## Hoztel

x relic x said:


> Just pick up something like this:


 

 well ok heres what i got at this moment because i have cords just lying around acctually two like that BUT its female where it would to be double male... i have a 3.5 to 3.5 for just testing it straight on my computer cuz i was interested also have 3.5 to rca but whats the point lol.....but so i could just do quarter inch male into the 3.5 into the carbon. would rca make it any different since its a quarter inch cable, I'm assuming not but asking never hurt me. i know i have a quarter inch splitter around and some quarter inch to xlr cables around would that work or no because then it would send along the dac power through the xlr I'm assuming? like i said I'm just trying to figure the best way to connect for the best sound and not to hurt my carbon in any way


----------



## x RELIC x

hoztel said:


> well ok heres what i got at this moment because i have cords just lying around acctually two like that BUT its female where it would to be double male... i have a 3.5 to 3.5 for just testing it straight on my computer cuz i was interested also have 3.5 to rca but whats the point lol.....but so i could just do quarter inch male into the 3.5 into the carbon. would rca make it any different since its a quarter inch cable, I'm assuming not but asking never hurt me. i know i have a quarter inch splitter around and some quarter inch to xlr cables around would that work or no because then it would send along the dac power through the xlr I'm assuming? like i said I'm just trying to figure the best way to connect for the best sound and not to hurt my carbon in any way




I wouldn't send a 1/4” SE output in to the XLR balanced input. The 3.5mm and RCA are the same signal path so there is no difference between the two. Whichever cable you have that can go from 1/4" to 3.5mm or RCA will be fine.


----------



## Hoztel

x relic x said:


> I wouldn't send a 1/4” SE output in to the XLR balanced input. The 3.5mm and RCA are the same signal path so there is no difference between the two. Whichever cable you have that can go from 1/4" to 3.5mm or RCA will be fine.


 
 thank you. its as i assumed. but assuming things is where problems occur haha so thank you.


----------



## Jozurr

Manged to place the order! Does anyone know how the amp switches from 110v to 230v?


----------



## Hoztel

jozurr said:


> Manged to place the order! Does anyone know how the amp switches from 110v to 230v?


 

 I believe Alex said, The amp will run the same due to the SMP being able to handle i think it was anywhere in between 100v -240/50v?
 anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost sure this is the answer your looking for, so no need just plug in the cord according to your country.


----------



## Hoztel

x relic x said:


> Ot this:


 
 Where did you find this one?! link? I've been searching so i don't have to use the adapter and can just use one cord lol this would be the best option and for some reason its the one cord i can't find right now in my house or online bahhhh..... is that, just to the looks of it, a live wire cable lol? 
 you edited it in and i missed it 

 edit - bah disregard this now i somehow stumbled upon like 3 at once. stupid google... =/


----------



## warrenpchi

hoztel said:


> jozurr said:
> 
> 
> > Manged to place the order! Does anyone know how the amp switches from 110v to 230v?
> ...


 

 The back of my Carbon says 85~265.  All you'll need is the correct power cord for your country.


----------



## Shawnb

warrenpchi said:


> The back of my Carbon says 85~265.  All you'll need is the correct power cord for your country.




Now the search for a good power cord begins...


----------



## sujitsky

#34 (or my own lucky number 7) is finally here. Let the burn-in begin!


----------



## MattTCG

shawnb said:


> Now the search for a good power cord begins...


 
  
 Dude...you are WAY behind. We did the power cord-fi search a long time ago.


----------



## Shawnb

matttcg said:


> Dude...you are WAY behind. We did the power cord-fi search a long time ago.




Lol I know, I just ordered my LC a few days ago. I'm late all around


----------



## MattTCG

shawnb said:


> Lol I know, I just ordered my LC a few days ago. I'm late all around


 
  
 You've still got to go through the entire process of searches:
  
 *power cable
  
 *DAC
  
 *balanced cable for all headphones
  
 *Interconnect cables balanced


----------



## Peridot

matttcg said:


> You've still got to go through the entire process of searches:
> 
> *power cable
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not forgetting the rubber feet


----------



## swspiers

matttcg said:


> You've still got to go through the entire process of searches:
> 
> *power cable
> 
> ...


 
 We need a thread dedicated to each.  I'd love reading a thousand+ headfiers debate aspects of an amp that only 500 own, in multiple threads!


----------



## reddog

swspiers said:


> We need a thread dedicated to each.  I'd love reading a thousand+ headfiers debate aspects of an amp that only 500 own, in multiple threads!



+1 I agree, I am surprised, such a limited production amp has so many threads dedicated to it. I think its a extremely fine amp, just shocked at all the threads dedicated to it.


----------



## Shawnb

matttcg said:


> You've still got to go through the entire process of searches:
> 
> *power cable
> 
> ...




DAC I got covered. Have a Pulse X Infinity coming. 
Balanced headphone cable already got with my Alpha Dogs. 
Balanced interconnect cables I'm waiting till I get more of the Geek stuff I ordered so I can judge how long I'll need.


----------



## mandrake50

hoztel said:


> my dac is only quarter inch out se. so what adapt down to 3.5m?


 
 You should easily be able to find a 1/4'  TRS to 1/8" TRS cable.


----------



## bearFNF

Just got a shipping notice!!! Should be here Friday. Order #642


----------



## Mattyhew

How does one find out their order no. ?


----------



## jarnopp

reddog said:


> +1 I agree, I am surprised, such a limited production amp has so many threads dedicated to it. I think its a extremely fine amp, just shocked at all the threads dedicated to it.




I think all the threads and posts for the Carbon (as well as the Mojo) is because products like this bring the fun back. For a multi-$$ product, you expect something outrageous in terms of performance and features, and it's not fun when there is even a small flaw. For $599 (still a good sum, but a relative bargain) a product that surprises is pure joy (perhaps mobile joy).


----------



## bearFNF

mattyhew said:


> How does one find out their order no. ?


Cavalli should have sent you an order confirmation. You could log into your account at Cavalli audio website. You can email Cavalli audio and ask. It will also be on the shipping notice. Lots of options to choose from.


----------



## Shawnb

mattyhew said:


> How does one find out their order no. ?




Last 4 digits of your order confirmation, will be your order number


----------



## m usicguy

1204  order number   dec 4 ordered.
  
 any updates from anyone near this number.
  
 musicguy


----------



## Shawnb

Was there only 500 HPA's total or has there been multiple batches? 
  
 I watched the thread with it was announced but never figured it would last this long. Am still in a bit of shock that i managed to grab one. Would of figured 500 would of sold out easily.


----------



## swspiers

shawnb said:


> Was there only 500 HPA's total or has there been multiple batches?
> 
> I watched the thread with it was announced but never figured it would last this long. Am still in a bit of shock that i managed to grab one. Would of figured 500 would of sold out easily.


 
 I think some people wanted to wait until it actually shipped.


----------



## Stillhart

shawnb said:


> DAC I got covered. Have a Pulse X Infinity coming.
> Balanced headphone cable already got with my Alpha Dogs.
> Balanced interconnect cables I'm waiting till I get more of the Geek stuff I ordered so I can judge how long I'll need.


 
  
 You sure you want to wait that long?  It could be years!
  


shawnb said:


> Was there only 500 HPA's total or has there been multiple batches?
> 
> I watched the thread with it was announced but never figured it would last this long. Am still in a bit of shock that i managed to grab one. Would of figured 500 would of sold out easily.


 
  
 There was only one batch and there's been no announcement of forthcoming batches.  I think a huge amount sold out quickly and the remainder sold in a trickle over the intervening months (with a lot of moevement recently as more impressions roll in).


----------



## doctorjazz

If the wait for the Geek Pulse is too long, imagine my wait for the Vi Tube DAC...


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Now that its the week of the 8th have there been any new shipment notices at all? Still waiting on mine. Order 721.


----------



## Mr Rick

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Now that its the week of the 8th have there been any new shipment notices at all? Still waiting on mine. Order 721.


 
 Yes there have.


----------



## Cardiiiii

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Now that its the week of the 8th have there been any new shipment notices at all? Still waiting on mine. Order 721.


 
 Have you already received your shipping address verification email?


----------



## Hoztel

cardiiiii said:


> Have you already received your shipping address verification email?


 
 I got my address verification, lets see a bit back i believe at least a week or so now....but i got the fed ex shipping notice yesterday at noon.

 I just called Fed Ex as some of you know it said they were delivering mine last night. it seems as if only the shipping labels have been made so far. My status changed to pending later in the day and is still pending now, so i called Fed Ex and they said the label has been created but haven't recieved the shipment.
 My best guess as of this moment is all the emails are being sent out and labels are being made and then they will probably being dropping all of the units at each shipping location at the same time to be shipped making the process easier.
 Again this is only my guess after calling fed ex and camping my tracking number to see when an arrival date will appear next now.


----------



## Cardiiiii

#959 shipping address confirmation received!!!!!


----------



## chart54

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Now that its the week of the 8th have there been any new shipment notices at all? Still waiting on mine. Order 721.


 
  
 # 724 got FedEx shipment notification lastnight.


----------



## sahmen

#941 shipping address confirmation, also received. Shipping scheduled for the week of December 14th.


----------



## buke9

chart54 said:


> # 724 got FedEx shipment notification lastnight.


 
 #683 and nothing on shipment.


----------



## Cardiiiii

sahmen said:


> #941 shipping address confirmation, also received. Shipping scheduled for the week of December 14th.




Going away to Sydney over Christmas so I guess I'll only get my hands on these bad boys after Christmas.


----------



## fengwei007

m usicguy said:


> 1204  order number   dec 4 ordered.
> 
> any updates from anyone near this number.
> 
> musicguy




1177 here. No update other than the very first order confirmation after payment.


----------



## Strife

stillhart said:


> Yes.  I'm extremely satisfied with it and don't see myself upgrading anytime soon.  Next jump will have to be Master-7/Yggy level and I don't need to spend that much atm.


 
  
 Sorry if this has already been addressed before, but how did you hook up the DAC-19 to the LC? I'm seriously considering this DAC and thought a pair of RCA cables would suffice but the ACSS output has me intrigued and seeing the LC has RCA inputs, I wonder if it's worth the hassle. Also, is the cable (ACSS->RCA?) offered by the manufacturer?


----------



## Stillhart

strife said:


> Sorry if this has already been addressed before, but how did you hook up the DAC-19 to the LC? I'm seriously considering this DAC and thought a pair of RCA cables would suffice but the ACSS output has me intrigued and seeing the LC has RCA inputs, I wonder if it's worth the hassle. Also, is the cable (ACSS->RCA?) offered by the manufacturer?


 
  
 ACSS is Audio-GD's proprietary current-mode connection; you won't see it on any other manufacturer's products.   The amp has to be specifically designed to take a current-mode input, etc.  Converting RCA to ACSS or vice versa isn't a thing.
  
 I use regular ol' RCA cables from Monoprice.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Thanks for all the replies RE: shipping. Seems like these are going out of order, makes sense since it's done in batches I guess. At least we have confirmation that as of yesterday, #724 got a shipping label printed. Hope they're able to deliver on the remaining units as the week progresses.


----------



## gto88

Just got it.
 #963, shipping scheduled for 12/4 week.
 They are working very hard to ensure we get it before X'mas.
  
 Sorry, mine is 12/14, not 12/4, hope I didn't piss somebody off by mistake.


----------



## bearFNF

Make sure you are checking your spam folders, that is where my notice ended up.


----------



## tuxbass

Are all orders expected to ship before Christmas ?
 I am sitting at #110x, just wondering.


----------



## Stillhart

tuxbass said:


> Are all orders expected to ship before Christmas ?
> I am sitting at #110x, just wondering.


 
  
 They never said Christmas, they said December.  But yes, last I heard, they were still intending to get them all out in December.


----------



## buke9

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Thanks for all the replies RE: shipping. Seems like these are going out of order, makes sense since it's done in batches I guess. At least we have confirmation that as of yesterday, #724 got a shipping label printed. Hope they're able to deliver on the remaining units as the week progresses.


 
 I'd be kind of pissed if they were going out of order since I've been waiting since April 18th.


----------



## tuxbass

stillhart said:


> They never said Christmas, they said December.  But yes, last I heard, they were still intending to get them all out in December.


 
 Ok Thanks


----------



## Hoztel

buke9 said:


> I'd be kind of pissed if they were going out of order since I've been waiting since April 18th.


 

 Email cavalli and check since you still haven't gotten your email you said right?
 also above someone mentioned the notice came to their spam folder so i would check there as well. 
 i highly doubt they are going out of order.


----------



## buke9

hoztel said:


> Email cavalli and check since you still haven't gotten your email you said right?
> also above someone mentioned the notice came to their spam folder so i would check there as well.
> i highly doubt they are going out of order.


 
 I got the address email but not shipping email. It's getting too close for this kind of crap having waiting soo long.


----------



## Hoztel

buke9 said:


> I got the address email but not shipping email. It's getting too close for this kind of crap having waiting soo long.


 

 Well even though I've got my notice for shipping my amp hasn't gone to fed ex yet (only the shipping label was created) because it would have already been here since i live only 30 minutes or so from the shipping origin. (my status is still pending even now with no delivery date) 
 Like i stated above in one of my last posts, my best guess is there sending out all emails these first few days of the week and will probably drop off all the units at once for each shipping facility. 
 Unless anyone else can confirm they got their shipping notice and have seen their amp move out of the shipping facility i doubt they have dropped them off yet. thats just how it looks to me. I'm sure it will come along.
 But I don't work for Alex or Cavalli so again this is only my assumption. I hope we all get them asap though. I would love to start burning mine in and/or even hold it after waiting since April haha


----------



## buke9

hoztel said:


> Well even though I've got my notice for shipping my amp hasn't gone to fed ex yet (only the shipping label was created) because it would have already been here since i live only 30 minutes or so from the shipping origin. (my status is still pending even now with no delivery date)
> Like i stated above in one of my last posts, my best guess is there sending out all emails these first few days of the week and will probably drop off all the units at once for each shipping facility.
> Unless anyone else can confirm they got their shipping notice and have seen their amp move out of the shipping facility i doubt they have dropped them off yet. thats just how it looks to me. I'm sure it will come along.
> But I don't work for Alex or Cavalli so again this is only my assumption. I hope we all get them asap though. I would love to start burning mine in and/or even hold it after waiting since April haha


 
 This is well and good. I just have a problem with a order number after mine getting the notice. I believe yours was 641 or so but a 721 getting a notice before 682 I don't like that.


----------



## gto88

buke9 said:


> This is well and good. I just have a problem with a order number after mine getting the notice. I believe yours was 641 or so but a 721 getting a notice before 682 I don't like that.


 
 email sent out will go through different server depends on the receiver.
 It might be just server's delivery lag, this is common.


----------



## buke9

gto88 said:


> email sent out will go through different server depends on the receiver.
> It might be just server's delivery lag, this is common.


 
 Could be but I doubt it.


----------



## Cardiiiii

buke9 said:


> This is well and good. I just have a problem with a order number after mine getting the notice. I believe yours was 641 or so but a 721 getting a notice before 682 I don't like that.




Also I believe Alex said the rest of the amps will be shipped based on location or shipping methods or something like that and NOT order number. Only the shipping address verification is based on order number and not actual shipping.


----------



## buke9

cardiiiii said:


> Also I believe Alex said the rest of the amps will be shipped based on location or shipping methods or something like that and NOT order number. Only the shipping address verification is based on order number and not actual shipping.


 
 That still sucks. You think if you ordered just after it went on sale that would mean something. I guess not.


----------



## Cardiiiii

"The amps won't go out in batches this time except when batched for different shipping types."

I guess he's talking about the shipping method you chose when checking out.


----------



## gto88

@buke9 have you had your amp yet? I thought you mentioned that you 682?


----------



## Hoztel

cardiiiii said:


> "The amps won't go out in batches this time except when batched for different shipping types."
> 
> I guess he's talking about the shipping method you chose when checking out.


 

 that would make sense to my thoughts earlier about all the amps being dropped at the same time for each shipping method.


----------



## Cardiiiii

hoztel said:


> that would make sense to my thoughts earlier about all the amps being dropped at the same time for each shipping method.




We are all so close to getting our amps, what's a few extra days.


----------



## buke9

gto88 said:


> @buke9 have you had your amp yet? I thought you mentioned that you 682?


 
 Still waiting.


----------



## gto88

buke9 said:


> Still waiting.


 

 Huh? why don't contact them to find out reason of delay.


----------



## Hoztel

cardiiiii said:


> We are all so close to getting our amps, what's a few extra days.


 

 It's true though back in September i had basically forgot i even bought it haha, so yeah i really don't mind a few extra days. Plus I'm sure its well worth the wait or i wouldn't have waited since april =D


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

April order here too. Yeah the wait sucks, but that comes with the territory when preordering (audiophile) **** I've learned. Makes the August/Sept. delivery estimates seem hilariously rosy in hindsight. Hell, mine was supposed to be delivered during the second batch back in Nov. 16th. It's been nearly a month since then. I'm sure the delays bother Alex too though.


----------



## gto88

hoztel said:


> It's true though back in September i had basically forgot i even bought it haha, so yeah i really don't mind a few extra days. Plus I'm sure its well worth the wait or i wouldn't have waited since april =D


 
 Couldn't agree more. At $600, balanced in/out, and 1.5+W per channel, it is unbeatable.


----------



## Hoztel

idsynchrono_24 said:


> April order here too. Yeah the wait sucks, but that comes with the territory when preordering (audiophile) **** I've learned. Makes the August/Sept. delivery estimates seem hilariously rosy in hindsight. Hell, mine was supposed to be delivered during the second batch back in Nov. 16th. It's been nearly a month since then. I'm sure the delays bother Alex too though.


 

 How could they not, I'm sure he doesn't like to be posting estimated shipping dates only to learn that its pushed back again. Can't blame him tho when its none of his fault parts weren't coming in on time and stuff. As for anyone who pre ordered, your right this is exactly what we signed up for and Alex made it clear it going to be a little process and wait, although the extra wait isn't his fault, can't blame Alex for others mistakes, which is why i've continued to just wait patiently! 
 worked so far ha


----------



## buke9

idsynchrono_24 said:


> April order here too. Yeah the wait sucks, but that comes with the territory when preordering (audiophile) **** I've learned. Makes the August/Sept. delivery estimates seem hilariously rosy in hindsight. Hell, mine was supposed to be delivered during the second batch back in Nov. 16th. It's been nearly a month since then. I'm sure the delays bother Alex too though.


 
 Same boat here.


----------



## Hoztel

gto88 said:


> Couldn't agree more. At $600, balanced in/out, and 1.5+W per channel, it is unbeatable.


 

 If you missed Alex's update, I'm pretty sure he said the amp running balanced out would produce about 2.3 -2.8w but i think it was more around the 2.3/4 range depending on a few things can't recall at the moment but its either in one of his updates or buried in this thread now haha 
 anyone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## gto88

hopefully, our patience pay off with a top quality amp.


----------



## gto88

hoztel said:


> If you missed Alex's update, I'm pretty sure he said the amp running balanced out would produce about 2.3 -2.8w but i think it was more around the 2.3/4 range depending on a few things can't recall at the moment but its either in one of his updates or buried in this thread now haha
> anyone correct me if I'm wrong.


 
 Yes, you are right, I saw the post one two days ago. So I said 1.5+W. (I didn't remember the number)
 And wow, up to 4W is really nice, just how do we know?


----------



## Hoztel

gto88 said:


> Yes, you are right, I saw the post one two days ago. So I said 1.5+W. (I didn't remember the number)


 

 yeah when i saw it was going to have more power than intended it made the wait even more worth it ha gotta love Alex for that surprise though!!!!


----------



## gto88

hoztel said:


> yeah when i saw it was going to have more power than intended it made the wait even more worth it ha gotta love Alex for that surprise though!!!!


 
 +1


----------



## x RELIC x

hoztel said:


> If you missed Alex's update, I'm pretty sure he said the amp running balanced out would produce about 2.3 -2.8w but i think it was more around the 2.3/4 range depending on a few things can't recall at the moment but its either in one of his updates or buried in this thread now haha
> 
> anyone correct me if I'm wrong.




From this post:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1485#post_11607837


----------



## Hoztel

x relic x said:


> From this post:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1485#post_11607837


 

 don't know how you found that so fast but yes that post! 
 respect to you....do you have like sticky notes where all the good info is in this thread or what haha


----------



## x RELIC x

hoztel said:


> don't know how you found that so fast but yes that post!
> 
> respect to you....do you have like sticky notes where all the good info is in this thread or what haha




Haha! Just had the conversation with another member a couple days ago. 

That, and search-fu...


----------



## sling5s

I'm used to seeing watts @ 32ohms not 50ohms.  Just to get an idea, what would 2.8W @ 50ohm converted to 32ohms? 
 I'm assuming like 4 watts?


----------



## defbear

I logged in and saw four new pages of posts. I figured something exciting must have happened. Nope just 'Wah! where's my amp?'


----------



## adobotj

I just woke up and the first thing I saw on my notifications is the address confirmation email I've been waiting for! Order #956 here and scheduled delivery on December 14! Woohoo!!!


----------



## buke9

Damn I thought this was going to be this week but I don't think so. Only two people got shipping notices and one said it is only shipping label created but has not shipped. I started to get excited now I know it will not be this week. I guess I need to stop waiting for it and be surprised if it shows up. It has been 8 months so what is another couple weeks. I thought it would be November but no and now it doesn't look good either.


----------



## x RELIC x

My confirmation email said shipping the week of Dec. 8th. Just a couple more days left.....


----------



## buke9

defbear said:


> I logged in and saw four new pages of posts. I figured something exciting must have happened. Nope just 'Wah! where's my amp?'


 
 When I bought it it was the end of September then November so Wah!


----------



## Maconi

sling5s said:


> I'm used to seeing watts @ 32ohms not 50ohms.  Just to get an idea, what would 2.8W @ 50ohm converted to 32ohms?
> I'm assuming like 4 watts?


 
 If my math is right:
  
 50 Ohm @ 1.5W
 32 Ohm @ 2.3W
  
 or
  
 50 Ohm @ 2.8W
 32 Ohm @ 4.3W
  
 Assuming Roughly 8.5V and 12V.
  
 Could be wrong though. Still learning all these conversions lol.


----------



## sling5s

maconi said:


> If my math is right:
> 
> 50 Ohm @ 1.5W
> 32 Ohm @ 2.3W
> ...


 

 4.3 W (@ 32ohms) is pretty impressive for a transportable amp. More power than most desktop amps.


----------



## doctorjazz

True dat, I don't think any of the people who jumped in really and waited all these months complained as much as the last minute folks who may have a few weeks wait. All about expectations, I suppose.


----------



## buke9

doctorjazz said:


> True dat, I don't think any of the people who jumped in really and waited all these months complained as much as the last minute folks who may have a few weeks wait. All about expectations, I suppose.


 
 I guess you have received yours ? I guess those who waited two days later are to be ridiculed right? If this is normal for Cavalli owners? I don't get this kind of attitude from other forums.


----------



## Cardiiiii

buke9 said:


> I guess you have received yours ? I guess those who waited two days later are to be ridiculed right? If this is normal for Cavalli owners? I don't get this kind of attitude from other forums.




Delays are normal, at least youve been kept in the loop about them from Day 1. No one likes delays but they are part and parcel of this kind of sale. You've also been advised of the shipping schedule. What more do you want? Why don't you shoot Cavalli an email and ask where your shipping notice is? If you're still not happy with the service you get channel all your efforts towards getting your order cancelled and get one of those other $600 amps that are readily available and whose fans don't have any attitude.

P.S. I'm sure there will be someone who will be thrilled to pick up your cancelled order.


----------



## doctorjazz

buke9 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > True dat, I don't think any of the people who jumped in really and waited all these months complained as much as the last minute folks who may have a few weeks wait. All about expectations, I suppose.
> ...




Didn't mean to ruffle the feathers...I waited from April, do have it now, in the first batch shipped. Waiting is tough, I get it, I've done it. You'll be happy when it comes 

(as I tend to repeat, it could be worse: like me, you could be waiting for LH Labs...)


----------



## Cardiiiii

The most important thing is that there were regular updates and everyone was kept in the loop. If you're happy to wait, great, if not, move on. If you've been waiting since April them I'm sure a few more days wont hurt.


----------



## buke9

cardiiiii said:


> Delays are normal, at least youve been kept in the loop about them from Day 1. No one likes delays but they are part and parcel of this kind of sale. You've also been advised of the shipping schedule. What more do you want? Why don't you shoot Cavalli an email and ask where your shipping notice is? If you're still not happy with the service you get channel all your efforts towards getting your order cancelled and get one of those other $600 amps that are readily available and whose fans don't have any attitude.
> 
> P.S. I'm sure there will be someone who will be thrilled to pick up your cancelled order.


 
 Well first off I can't cancel my order and secondly I won't. I don't know what you read into what I said but I just said I'm getting tired of being let down for when I'm getting it. I don't know what you thought I meant but I don't really care. As far as attitude you make the case . I'll stop right here and never post on this thread again as you can not say anything negative about your experience waiting for this amp. Happy Listening !


----------



## aarontyson

strife said:


> Sorry if this has already been addressed before, but how did you hook up the DAC-19 to the LC? I'm seriously considering this DAC and thought a pair of RCA cables would suffice but the ACSS output has me intrigued and seeing the LC has RCA inputs, I wonder if it's worth the hassle. Also, is the cable (ACSS->RCA?) offered by the manufacturer?


 You can just use the RCA's. The LC will treat them as a balanced cable.


----------



## Maconi

I think most people just don't understand the point in complaining. It's perfectly valid to voice your dissatisfaction with the wait but I wouldn't be surprised when people sneer at the whining (especially when they see the "New Post" alert, refresh hoping to see something interesting about the LC itself, and instead just see complaining).
  
 A lot of people have been waiting a long time and complaining isn't going to speed things up. The only option at this point is to continue waiting (since I don't think you can cancel at this point).


----------



## doctorjazz

It's true, everyone had the right to post their complaints. On the other hand, people have the right to complain about the complaining. on the third hand, it all makes for really dreary reading.


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> It's true, everyone had the right to post their complaints. On the other hand, people have the right to complain about the complaining. on the third hand, it all makes for really dreary reading.


 
 Can I complain about your post?


----------



## defbear

buke9 said:


> I guess you have received yours ? I guess those who waited two days later are to be ridiculed right? If this is normal for Cavalli owners? I don't get this kind of attitude from other forums.


Please take no umbrage. Didn't mean to ridicule you. Everyone's having fun with the project. And I can be a little naughty and silly. I actually no longer know how my Liquid Carbon sounds as it just got done with it's 180 hour continuous burn-in. Woo-Hoo! Next stop, the Impressions thread!


----------



## Hoztel

How about we all just wait like nice patient people haha I'm sure Alex will post an update soon if things aren't to schedule anymore or if theres been a change?
 Otherwise assume there was a small delay in shipping who knows guys with Xmas around the corner the post in the US is already starting to overflow and my fed ex driver told me he's working christmas eve and they also deliver on christmas DAY!! So who knows some of you may get a nice gift for the 25th....(for those of you in the next batches)


----------



## x RELIC x

Um....... Yeah..... How do I say this........?

Considering the last couple pages this is Fuel for the fire..............

I received my shipping email... Expected shipping on Friday from Fedex in Cedar Park Texas........ Arrival in Canada expected on Tuesday!! 

Seriously, I feel like this....... Never thought I'd be soooo excited for a small amp I've never heard!




Although I understand many others still waiting for their notice will feel like this.........




Sorry guys, can't help but share my excitement.


----------



## Hoztel

@x RELIC x you do know cedar park TX is the return address right? They ship from CA if I'm not mistaken. 
 and i can relate the first photo was me the other day and the second one is me now hahahaha


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> It's true, everyone had the right to post their complaints. On the other hand, people have the right to complain about the complaining. on the third hand, it all makes for really dreary reading.


 Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does


----------



## x RELIC x

hoztel said:


> @x RELIC x
> you do know cedar park TX is the return address right? They ship from CA if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> and i can relate the first photo was me the other day and the second one is me now hahahaha




Well the only origin address on the shipment notice says Cedar Park TX, so whether it ships from there, or California, or Bangkok, or the moon, I'm excited for it to ship soon. :tongue_smile:


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> (as I tend to repeat, it could be worse: like me, you could be waiting for LH Labs...)


 
  
 Damn skippy!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


x relic x said:


> Seriously, I feel like this....... Never thought I'd be soooo excited for a small amp I've never heard!


 
  
 LOL!


----------



## swspiers

Actually, the complaining is calming me down.  Giving me a chance to ask myself, "Do I sound like this?"
  
 If I do, then I don't even write it.
  
 Still no word, and that's okay.  I ordered in July, and if I get it in December, it will be the shortest wait I've ever endured for a limited-run, boutique product.  I once waited for about a year for a fancy distortion pedal, and it was well worth it!


----------



## adobotj

defbear said:


> Please take no umbrage. Didn't mean to ridicule you. Everyone's having fun with the project. And I can be a little naughty and silly. I actually no longer know how my Liquid Carbon sounds as it just got done with it's 180 hour continuous burn-in. Woo-Hoo! Next stop, the Impressions thread!




I'm really trying to resist the urge and take a look inside the impressions thread. Until the time I receive mine, I won't go there as to not confound my own listening impressions. Until then, see you at the impressions thread soon!


----------



## m0nster

Funny, so far I haven't found a single review or opinion that says the Liquid Carbon is bad or even remotely overpriced. Yet there are a lot of people complaining. Pretty unusual for this forum, isn't it?
 I think it's very nice of Alex to give this gift of amazing musc to the head-fi community! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And consider yourselfs lucky if you were fast enough to get one


----------



## mandrake50

#690. Got up this morning to see a shipping notice from FedEx in my inbox. It said the label was created 12/8/2015, expected delivery 12/11/2015, but it has not been scanned into the FedEx system as of yet. I am pretty certain that I will not see it tomorrow as it has not started moving yet. It is good to see that there is some progress on getting them out though. The direct signature required will complicate things, but even with that, I should get the little amp within a week or less. It's all good.
  
 Things were so much simpler before  online tracking data and automated tracking email messages. No angst, no shipping order jealousy... just one day a package arrives.


----------



## Shawnb

doctorjazz said:


> Didn't mean to ruffle the feathers...I waited from April, do have it now, in the first batch shipped. Waiting is tough, I get it, I've done it. You'll be happy when it comes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm waiting for the Pulse X Infinity, PTP, HPA, Source and Wave so yeah i know all about that endless wait. I was kinda suprised to see comaplints over the wait, just wanted to say try our world lol
 But yeah I ordered one of the last ones 4 days ago, What is it already? I want it NOW!!! 
  
 Waiting till end of the year is nothing, LH Labs will keep me waiting for a whole lot longer


----------



## Mr Rick

shawnb said:


> I'm waiting for the Pulse X Infinity, PTP, HPA, Source and Wave so yeah i know all about that endless wait. I was kinda suprised to see comaplints over the wait, just wanted to say try our world lol
> But yeah I ordered one of the last ones 4 days ago, What is it already? I want it NOW!!!
> 
> Waiting till end of the year is nothing, LH Labs will keep me waiting for a whole lot longer


 
  
 Try buying limited edition watches or custom made knives. Several years wait is not unheard of.


----------



## Shawnb

mr rick said:


> Try buying limited edition watches or custom made knives. Several years wait is not unheard of.


 
  
 Yep the good stuff is always limited, sometimes you just gotta wait. Once you get it though, then it's pure joy


----------



## jarnopp

Question for anyone with knowledge/experience:
 I am planning to use the Chord Mojo as the DAC for the LC and it's line out mode is 3v.  What the maximun input voltage for the Carbon? That 3v can be adjusted up or down.  Would ~2v be better, or could the LC handle above 3v even?
 Thanks!


----------



## Mattyhew

shawnb said:


> Yep the good stuff is always limited, sometimes you just gotta wait. Once you get it though, then it's pure joy


 
  
 Plus it means i actually check my inbox


----------



## mscott58

jarnopp said:


> Question for anyone with knowledge/experience:
> I am planning to use the Chord Mojo as the DAC for the LC and it's line out mode is 3v.  What the maximun input voltage for the Carbon? That 3v can be adjusted up or down.  Would ~2v be better, or could the LC handle above 3v even?
> Thanks!




LC handles the Mojo line out just fine. Cheers


----------



## jarnopp

mscott58 said:


> LC handles the Mojo line out just fine. Cheers


 

 Thanks - have you experimented with more or less?  maybe in a week I can


----------



## Dave74

mscott58 said:


> LC handles the Mojo line out just fine. Cheers


 

 If you plan on listening to the LC mainly through IEM's would it be better to lower the voltage/volume on the MOJO or HUGO and raise the volume on the LC?


----------



## mscott58

jarnopp said:


> Thanks - have you experimented with more or less?  maybe in a week I can


 
 Have run the Mojo at full throttle through the LC with no issues. Also have done the same with the CDM. Neither had any problem with the Mojo's output. Cheers


----------



## jarnopp

dave74 said:


> If you plan on listening to the LC mainly through IEM's would it be better to lower the voltage/volume on the MOJO or HUGO and raise the volume on the LC?


 

 I think the Mojo would handle any IEMs just fine on its own.  If you prefer the added sound with the LC, then I would experiment with what mix you like more.  But Mojo s/b plenty powerful for any IEMs.


----------



## jarnopp

mscott58 said:


> Have run the Mojo at full throttle through the LC with no issues. Also have done the same with the CDM. Neither had any problem with the Mojo's output. Cheers


 

 Wow - ok, thanks!


----------



## Dave74

jarnopp said:


> I think the Mojo would handle any IEMs just fine on its own.  If you prefer the added sound with the LC, then I would experiment with what mix you like more.  But Mojo s/b plenty powerful for any IEMs.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 I agree that it is definitely powerful enough. I am thinking more of just a change of sound signature of the HUGO at times.   I had read in one of the earlier posts someone saying they preferred the LC with the HUGO as opposed to the HUGO alone, I think the poster even said something along the lines of Chord should get Cavalli to build their amps for them.  I am also aware that Chord says you can't improve on the amplification of the HUGO or MOJO so it would just be a sound sig. change and I might just use the LC for my planners.
  
 Don't get me wrong I love the Hugo and Mojo.  I just want to see if I can get more out of it.


----------



## swspiers

dave74 said:


> Don't get me wrong I love the Hugo and Mojo.  I just want to see if I can get more out of it.


 
 Good gawd man, your collection of gear is stellar.  I mean, wow!  What more could you possibly be looking for?
  
 I can't wait to read your impressions of the LC...


----------



## Dave74

swspiers said:


> Good gawd man, your collection of gear is stellar.  I mean, wow!  What more could you possibly be looking for?
> 
> I can't wait to read your impressions of the LC...


 

 LOL Thanks.. There are a lot of people with much more invested  in gear that what I have here though
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I will post my impressions once the LC gets here. Most of my gear I no longer use though and should try and sell it I guess.  I am just hoping that the LC will make the Hugo sound a little more musical with some of my gear.  The Dita Answers and SE846 were probably the first two things I would have sold, but now I find they have the best synergy (IMO) with the MOJO so I am happy I hung onto them.


----------



## GCTD

So what's the hold up on these shipping? Mine was suppose to be delivered today but the status still says "Label Created". I shouldn't have cheapened out on shipping during checkout.


----------



## kingdixon

Order #1046, just received the address verification mail, and shipping on the week of 18th ..

WOAH, IS IT ME OR THE WAITING JUST BECAME HARDER RIGHT NOW!!


----------



## GCTD

It's so close yet so far, no kidding...I'm like roughly 3:40hrs away from where this is shipping.


----------



## aqsw

I tried my Feliks Elise as a pre amp to the LC. Within ten minutes my LC lights were all flashing, and the amp was hotter than a class A amp. Shut it down, let her cool.
 Unplugged the Elise. Not sure what went wrong , but I'm not going to try that again.


----------



## sling5s

aqsw said:


> I tried my Feliks Elise as a pre amp to the LC. Within ten minutes my LC lights were all flashing, and the amp was hotter than a class A amp. Shut it down, let her cool.
> Unplugged the Elise. Not sure what went wrong , but I'm not going to try that again.


 

 Heard good things about the Elise, (knowing it's a tube amp and taking preferences into account, but nevertheless) how does it compare to the LC?  One better than the other just different?


----------



## runeight

Hey gents, another quick update. We've been getting the shipping notices as you have been and have been working with the manuf to figure out exactly what's been happening. Because we see that the shipments appear to be going out out of order and the shipping notices being sent to soon.
  
 What seems to have happened is that some of the Fedex shipment notices were sent at creation of the label, not at actual handing to Fedex. And these were not all of the shipping labels for all the 150 amps that will go out this week.
  
 After a few conversations with the manuf (who is also  handling the shipping) we expect that, indeed, the next 150 amps will go out today and tomorrow, in order of purchase, except that as before they will be in two batches, Fedex and USPS.
  
 I guess it's still possible for the shipper to do otherwise and make all of our lives harder than necessary, but at least they know what they are supposed to do.


----------



## santacore

gctd said:


> It's so close yet so far, no kidding...I'm like roughly 3:40hrs away from where this is shipping.


 
 The first batch shipped from California even though the return label said TX. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I think that is the case with the second batch too.


----------



## aqsw

sling5s said:


> Heard good things about the Elise, (knowing it's a tube amp and taking preferences into account, but nevertheless) how does it compare to the LC?  One better than the other just different?




I definately prefer the Elise, but the LC is still a fantastic amp. My Oppo HA1 is up for sale after hearing the LC. No contest.


----------



## sling5s

aqsw said:


> I definately prefer the Elise, but the LC is still a fantastic amp. My Oppo HA1 is up for sale after hearing the LC. No contest.


 

 Have you compared the Elise to microZOTL2? They both seem to be great tube amps for their price.


----------



## aqsw

sling5s said:


> Have you compared the Elise to microZOTL2? They both seem to be great tube amps for their price.




No I have not. I have only heard good things about he microz. I think the Elise is more of a tube rollers amp, whereas the micro is more set it up and leave it. JMO.I could be wrong.
L
Overall, the Elise will probably cost you more because tubes can get expensive. But what a journey!

Probably better to ask these questions on the Elise site. Alot of great guys there.


----------



## Cardiiiii

runeight said:


> Hey gents, another quick update. We've been getting the shipping notices as you have been and have been working with the manuf to figure out exactly what's been happening. Because we see that the shipments appear to be going out out of order and the shipping notices being sent to soon.
> 
> What seems to have happened is that some of the Fedex shipment notices were sent at creation of the label, not at actual handing to Fedex. And these were not all of the shipping labels for all the 150 amps that will go out this week.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the update.


----------



## sling5s

aqsw said:


> No I have not. I have only heard good things about he microz. I think the Elise is more of a tube rollers amp, whereas the micro is more set it up and leave it. JMO.I could be wrong.
> L
> Overall, the Elise will probably cost you more because tubes can get expensive. But what a journey!
> 
> Probably better to ask these questions on the Elise site. Alot of great guys there.


 

 thanks.


----------



## TON13

Thanks for the update runeight.  Mine said shipping week December 8 (#844) so here's hoping for a good day.  Can't wait to receive this little gem.


----------



## RKML0007

Shipping verification email received for order 1165 - scheduled for shipping around Dec. 18!

Thanks Terry!


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

I got a shipment email as well. Says scheduled for Dec 12th but so far it just says that a label has been printed, so I'm guessing it won't be delivered til next week or so. I'm also apparently Serial no. 202.


----------



## sling5s

rkml0007 said:


> Shipping verification email received for order 1165 - scheduled for shipping around Dec. 18!
> 
> Thanks Terry!


 
  
 Address verification.  Order 1139. But it does say scheduled for Dec. 18th.


----------



## Dave74

Same here.  Order 1152 for Dec. 18th


----------



## Shawnb

Same here Order 1217 Dec 18th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 OMG Will make for a nice Xmas..


----------



## woodcans

1199 "scheduled to ship around December 18, 2015."


----------



## Hansotek

1163, reporting in! Can't wait!!!!


----------



## rocketron

Shipping the 18th as well. Wonder if it comes before the Christmas break ends?


----------



## sling5s

rocketron said:


> Shipping the 18th as well. Wonder if it comes before the Christmas break ends?


 

 Everything takes longer to ship during Christmas. So I'm not sure if it will arrive before Christmas. But we can hope.


----------



## jamato8

I got a notice that mine is shipping the week of the 14th. I have number 934.


----------



## gto88

Wow, It has reached #1217, highest so far, Looks like they are going to ship all orders out before X'mas.


----------



## GCTD

sling5s said:


> Everything takes longer to ship during Christmas. So I'm not sure if it will arrive before Christmas. But we can hope.


 
 If that happens I'm gonna have to get that shipping cost refunded, but here's hoping as well.


----------



## rocketron

This is the worst part waiting. Still hope it's worth it?


----------



## x RELIC x

My Liquid Carbon is on the move! Yes, it's shipped from North Hills California. 

Order #845, serial #00254, expected on the 15th from FedEx, but we'll see with the surge in holiday packages.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

x relic x said:


> My Liquid Carbon is on the move! Yes, it's shipped from North Hills California.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Huh. There's been movement on your end? When did you get your label? Mine still shows as "*Shipping label has been created. The status will be updated when shipment begins to travel."​*  
*​​*There's been no actual change to that, but mine also has a supposed delivery date of the 12th? Unless there's a huge, huge delay on Fed Ex's tracking system and this thing was actually at the warehouse on the 9th there's no way that estimate is even close.


----------



## GCTD

x relic x said:


> My Liquid Carbon is on the move! Yes, it's shipped from North Hills California.
> 
> Order #845, serial #00254, expected on the 12th from FedEx, but we'll see with the surge in holiday packages.




Ugh, I envy you. My order is #656 ser:00165 but somehow yours got moved first?


----------



## x RELIC x

Uh oh!


----------



## TON13

x relic x said:


> My Liquid Carbon is on the move! Yes, it's shipped from North Hills California.
> 
> Order #845, serial #00254, expected on the 12th from FedEx, but we'll see with the surge in holiday packages.




I'm order #844 and have heard nothing except address verification a week ago.


----------



## defbear

Debbie Downer here again. I can't help myself. ITS FEDEX! (I told you so)  I think I have written three different diatribes against FedEx. Never a problem with UPS. I just today received a set of TH-900's via FedEx. I shudder every time I am to receive a shipment via FedEx. So since I  was to receive a FedEx package today, I burned 25 minutes with FedEx on the phone, yesterday, making sure they knew where and when they needed to deliver. They actually called me back 90 minutes later to confirm they would actually deliver. So today, surprise! my package was delivered on time and by a real deal FedEx driver. He asked me 'Did you call?' Yup I did. And he said, in a confidential tone, GOOD THING and left it at that. FEDEX BAH!


----------



## conquerator2

#1169. Still nothing


----------



## Maconi

Man that's tiny lol.


----------



## tuxbass

Order #110x, address verification email arrived today.
 Shipping on Dec 18th it said. So I'll most likely only get it only after Christmas. Excited !


----------



## Peridot

Looks like a lot of us on 18th December promises.
  
 I'm away over Christmas so should work out nicely for when I return.


----------



## Glow Fish

1109 and received address confirmation today.
  
 The last two FedEx deliveries were literally thrown over my gate.  Hate FedEx.


----------



## Peridot

It's odd hearing all the hate for FedEx, because here in the UK I rejoice if something is being delivered by them.
  
 Next only to UPS they are by far the most reliable courier.
  
 But we have many others that cause fear and apprehension when they are shown as the delivery agent.


----------



## Maconi

UPS
FedEx
USPS
.
.
.
.
.
.
DHL
  
 I've never had a trouble with any courier... except DHL.


----------



## mscott58

maconi said:


> UPS
> FedEx
> USPS
> .
> ...


 
 I'd have to add "Laser Ship" to the end of that list as well. 
  
 And I equally like UPS, FedEx and USPS as we personally know all of our delivery people - they're almost like members of the family. The benefits of living in a downtown area where drivers cover a very small geography due to the population density. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Order #1150 will be shipped 12/18, let the games begin!!!


----------



## bearFNF

Still no movement on mine, label was created 12/7 estimated delivery was 12/11, hmmm only Saturday left to get it out this week.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Yeah.... this is totally down to the manufacturer. Fed Ex is typically really expedient IME. Seems they dropped the ball again since it's already 7 on the west coast and no movement on the shipment at all. Guessing it's gonna ship next week. Was looking forward to possibly spending the weekend with the LC but alas :l


----------



## mandrake50

may as well join the diversion
 690 label created 12/8/2015. No movement. Supposed to be delivered today.
  
 Alex said that he had talked to them about observing the order date in the shipping sequence. He also said that they sent the shipping confirmations when they created the labels rather than when they actually shipped. He also said (two days ago) that they would ship something like 150 in the next two days.
 FedEx has not scanned my package into their system yet... At 690, it should have been in the first 150.
 Moral to this story... keep the expectations low.


----------



## Maconi

So if I needed a Balanced cable for my EL-8C, what would be the best route? Buying an Audeze Balanced cable (terminated in single 2.5mm or dual 3.5mm) and then get an XLR adapter, or is there a trustworthy cable maker that makes one already terminated in XLR (for a sane price)?
  
 https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/el-8-balanced-cable-astell-kern
  
 https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/el-8-balanced-cable-pono-sony-pha-3
  
 All the adapters I find are around $20 (making the total around with an official cable $70 before shipping/tax). I managed to find a custom cable for $100. Is C3 well know/trusted?
  
 http://www.c3audio.com/store/p99/Audeze_EL-8_Headphone_Cable_--_Canare.html


----------



## swspiers

Shipping notification received last night: invoice # 910.  But it still indicates that just the label is created.


----------



## defbear

Good Grief Peanuts! Here is the customer support number for Fedex Call 1.800.GoFedEx 1.800.463.3339. I suggest Everybody who is waiting for their LC call Fedex.. If everybody gangs up on Fedex they may be able to resolve this quicker. A great button to push with them is Poor Customer Service.


----------



## warrenpchi

Order #397
 Serial #00002
 Arrived: A while ago
  





  
  
 Also, I had a chance to check in with Alex, as well as the manufacturing team, yesterday - and I was told that they're scrambling to send out what seems to be a massive batch.


----------



## swspiers

warrenpchi said:


> Order #397
> Serial #00002
> Arrived: A while ago
> 
> ...


 
 I can only imagine the stress and anxiety they may be feeling as the whole process comes to an end.  Life as a 'boutique' manufacturer is tough.  Too many variables outside of their direct control.  It's amazing that anyone even tries!


----------



## cskippy

swspiers said:


> I can only imagine the stress and anxiety they may be feeling as the whole process comes to an end.  Life as a 'boutique' manufacturer is tough.  Too many variables outside of their direct control.  It's amazing that anyone even tries!


 
 THIS.  I have been watching this thread waiting like all of you.  I try to keep my mind occupied with good music and other things.  It's best to try and put the Carbon out of your mind and just as soon as you do it will be at your doorstep.


----------



## warrenpchi

cskippy said:


> swspiers said:
> 
> 
> > I can only imagine the stress and anxiety they may be feeling as the whole process comes to an end.  Life as a 'boutique' manufacturer is tough.  Too many variables outside of their direct control.  It's amazing that anyone even tries!
> ...


 
  
 That's exactly what happened to me!  Truth be told, I was in the middle of a few reviews when it came in... and it sat there unopened for three days.


----------



## Cardiiiii

warrenpchi said:


> That's exactly what happened to me!  Truth be told, I was in the middle of a few reviews when it came in... and it sat there unopened for three days.




How did you manage to resist the temptation for 3 days???


----------



## warrenpchi

cardiiiii said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > That's exactly what happened to me!  Truth be told, I was in the middle of a few reviews when it came in... and it sat there unopened for three days.
> ...


 

 I didn't know what was in the box.  Because I was not expecting it.  And it was one of several boxes that came in around the same time, so it was well camouflaged.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, was pre-occupied with an ENIGMAcoustics Dharma.


----------



## defbear

cskippy said:


> THIS.  I have been watching this thread waiting like all of you.  I try to keep my mind occupied with good music and other things.  It's best to try and put the Carbon out of your mind and just as soon as you do it will be at your doorstep.


 

 I compensated by purchasing a dac and two other amps


----------



## Anjolie

Got my email notification from FedEx and a label has been created, but now it's languishing somewhere in Texas, I believe.  Hasn't moved since


----------



## Cardiiiii

anjolie said:


> Got my email notification from FedEx and a label has been created, but now it's languishing somewhere in Texas, I believe.  Hasn't moved since




Yours was expected to ship in the week of 8th Dec or 14th? What's your order number BTW?


----------



## cskippy

anjolie said:


> Got my email notification from FedEx and a label has been created, but now it's languishing somewhere in Texas, I believe.  Hasn't moved since


 
 Yep, same email for a lot of us.  Warren said that the manufacturer was scrambling to get a bunch out early next week.  
  
 FYI for anyone that doesn't know, the quote bubble with the arrow to the left of the thread title lets you pick up from your last unread post.  Saves a lot of rehashing of information as it comes in.


----------



## Cardiiiii

defbear said:


> I compensated by purchasing a dac and two other amps




I think after the second delay I sent an email to cancel my order and then sent another email 30 mins later asking to ignore my previous email. There have been lots of temptations during the wait but I'm glad I resisted.


----------



## Anjolie

cardiiiii said:


> Yours was expected to ship in the week of 8th Dec or 14th? What's your order number BTW?


 
 Order number is 905.  I hope I get it by next week, that would be awesome!


----------



## poocaso

anjolie said:


> Order number is 905.  I hope I get it by next week, that would be awesome!


 

 Keep the faith! My order number is 906 and I got my shipping confirmation this morning at 3:15. It's scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday but direct signature required...


----------



## GCTD

Each shipping label is hand written by a calligraphic artist, and framed in the rare wood species which has a consistency that's only possible after months of curing, then packaged in genuine ancient mummy skin, then each package is handle individually by ninjas using their stealthy tip-toe walk on a red carpet, and into throat pouches of purebred Pelicans, which are cruetly-free raised, after 9 months in the throat pouches the package is ready to hatch, and once hatch it will go back to manufacturing for further assembly. No, we're never gonna get this amp.


----------



## Anjolie

poocaso said:


> Keep the faith! My order number is 906 and I got my shipping confirmation this morning at 3:15. It's scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday but direct signature required...


 
 Nice!  I hope mine will arrive soon as well


----------



## mscott58

anjolie said:


> Got my email notification from FedEx and a label has been created, but now it's languishing somewhere in Texas, I believe.  Hasn't moved since




Actually the labels are created with the address of Cavalli in Texas but the amps ship out of California. Cheers


----------



## Anjolie

I live in California so it really won't take that long at all *happy dance*


----------



## zaintachik

Lc is simply put awesome. The guys that are waiting just be patient, it's worth the wait, I ordered in April, and gosh all the superlatives have been mentioned here are so true. My gear is just dragonfly and hd700 just blew my head off. Thank you dr cavalli and the team at cavalli.


----------



## Shini44

hey guys, i changed my headphones cables to XLR to benefit from this amp
  
 yet should i do the same for my CIEM cables? or?  (note: i don't use the CIEM outside, desktop only)


----------



## sheldaze

maconi said:


> So if I needed a Balanced cable for my EL-8C, what would be the best route? Buying an Audeze Balanced cable (terminated in single 2.5mm or dual 3.5mm) and then get an XLR adapter, or is there a trustworthy cable maker that makes one already terminated in XLR (for a sane price)?
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/el-8-balanced-cable-astell-kern
> 
> ...


 
 Your last option what I'm using - used it as my primary burn-in headphone for the Liquid Carbon.
  


Spoiler: And...



I also have the Pono cable from Audeze, but that's because I also have a Pono player. And if you have a Pono, you should be running it balanced for balanced-capable headphones.


----------



## sheldaze

shini44 said:


> hey guys, i changed my headphones cables to XLR to benefit from this amp
> 
> yet should i do the same for my CIEM cables? or?  (note: i don't use the CIEM outside, desktop only)


 
 See post #541 from one of the other threads. I don't do in-ears, so I cannot comment personally.


----------



## doctorjazz

As has been said ad nauseum, balanced is better. I am using my PFA-232, though, which doesn't have a removable cable, through the single ended output, and it is sounding lovely indeed. The single ended LC ain't chopped liver...


----------



## Jozurr

shini44 said:


> hey guys, i changed my headphones cables to XLR to benefit from this amp
> 
> yet should i do the same for my CIEM cables? or?  (note: i don't use the CIEM outside, desktop only)


 
  
 Balanced is less noisy than SE


----------



## doctorjazz

Could be to much of a good thing...Got balanced cables for my acs Encores, to use with the Pono. Much too loud, can only use the first volume setting after silent and still loud.


----------



## Stillhart

Everyone I've spoken to who has heard balanced CIEM's on the LC has liked it and said it was dead quiet.  Michael confirmed that it's not too loud with his K10's.


----------



## sheldaze

doctorjazz said:


> Could be to much of a good thing...Got balanced cables for my acs Encores, to use with the Pono. Much too loud, can only use the first volume setting after silent and still loud.


----------



## A2029

stillhart said:


> Everyone I've spoken to who has heard balanced CIEM's on the LC has liked it and said it was dead quiet.  Michael confirmed that it's not too loud with his K10's.


 
  
 My JH Angies on the LC have audible noise from the balanced out (they are extremely sensitive IEMs), and there is very very little play in the volume knob (difference between channel imbalance due to volume too low and blasting loud enough to cause hearing damage is millimeters of turn on the volume knob). This is using Yggdrasil as DAC balanced in.


----------



## doctorjazz

It's likely to vary from ciem to ciem, depending on sensitivity.


----------



## Dave74

swich401 said:


> My JH Angies on the LC have audible noise from the balanced out (they are extremely sensitive IEMs), and there is very very little play in the volume knob (difference between channel imbalance due to volume too low and blasting loud enough to cause hearing damage is millimeters of turn on the volume knob). This is using Yggdrasil as DAC balanced in.


 

 Hmm.  I was thinking of pairing my Angies with the Hugo>LC.  I wonder if turing down the volume/input voltage on the Hugo would make the LC more usable with the Angies.


----------



## runeight

Hey folks, I think I've commented on this previously, somewhere on one of the threads.
  
 When the Carbon is in 1X mode IT HAS NO GAIN. If the volume is full on the output of the Carbon is about 98% of the input to the Carbon. 98% because the buffer amps are operating as followers and can't make exactly 100% of what's coming in.
  
 IIRC the full attenuation of the vol pot all the way down is about -78db. This is, actually, fairly high attenuation.
  
 If you can't listen at low volume settings in 1X your source is simply too hot. If you have a balanced source with 8V peak to peak output you're probably not going to make it even at lowest volume setting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In 1X mode, first thing is to find out what voltage levels (or power levels) your IEMs need for listenable volume level at useful vol pot rotation and then, if you can, set your source for that.


----------



## jamato8

Some sources are pretty hot and often that is where the problem lies. I have seen it vary from 1.5 to 3 volts on SE, and that is going to make quite a bit of difference.


----------



## Dave74

runeight said:


> Hey folks, I think I've commented on this previously, somewhere on one of the threads.
> 
> When the Carbon is in 1X mode IT HAS NO GAIN. If the volume is full on the output of the Carbon is about 98% of the input to the Carbon. 98% because the buffer amps are operating as followers and can't make exactly 100% of what's coming in.
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome. Thank You Dr. Cavalli.  I'll just lower the volume/output voltage on my Hugo then if needed.


----------



## Cardiiiii

dave74 said:


> Awesome. Thank You Dr. Cavalli.  I'll just lower the volume/output voltage on my Hugo then if needed.




In line out mode does the overall volume change when you change the volume on the Hugo?


----------



## x RELIC x

dave74 said:


> Hmm.  I was thinking of pairing my Angies with the Hugo>LC.  I wonder if turing down the volume/input voltage on the Hugo would make the LC more usable with the Angies.





cardiiiii said:


> In line out mode does the overall volume change when you change the volume on the Hugo?




'Line out' mode on the Hugo (and Mojo) is just a shortcut to 3V output. There is no seperate line out circuitry as the signal is the discrete analogue section from the DAC with no opamps or seperate 'amp section' like in most other traditional setups. The Chord portable devices are basically full time variable line out so, according to Rob Watts, about four clicks down from the 3V line out setting will give approximately 2V, which is more typical for a line out voltage. If that's still too hot just lower the volume (voltage) on the Hugo even further. There will be no difference in the quality of the output besides Voltage power.


----------



## Dave74

cardiiiii said:


> In line out mode does the overall volume change when you change the volume on the Hugo?


 

 I believe it does.  I think you have to have a voltage change to have a volume change. Here is a post from the hugo thread with a chart on volume and voltage for the Hugo. post #8534


----------



## Dave74

x relic x said:


> 'Line out' mode on the Hugo (and Mojo) are just shortcuts to 3V output. There is no seperate line out circuitry as the signal is the discrete analogue section from the DAC with no opamps or seperate 'amp section' like in most other traditional setups. The Chord portable devices are basically full time variable line out so, according to Rob Watts, about four clicks down from the 3V line out setting will give approximately 2V, which is more typical for a line out voltage. If that's still too hot just lower the volume (voltage) on the Hugo even further. There will be no difference in the quality of the output besides Voltage power.


 

 Thanks.  I remember reading a while back in the Hugo thread that some people found the line out voltage of 3v was too hot for their amps and they preferred going with a lower volume/voltage setting feeding an amp.  
 The question I have is will this help using SE IEM's?  Does lowering the input voltage to the LC lower the noise floor or will I have to go balanced? 
 I'll most likely be using the Carbon for full sized headphones most of the time, but if it works or makes IEM's sound better too, then why not use it with them as well.


----------



## x RELIC x

dave74 said:


> Thanks.  I remember reading a while back in the Hugo thread that some people found the line out voltage of 3v was too hot for their amps and they preferred going with a lower volume/voltage setting feeding an amp.
> The question I have is will this help using SE IEM's?  Does lowering the input voltage to the LC lower the noise floor or will I have to go balanced?
> I'll most likely be using the Carbon for full sized headphones most of the time, but if it works or makes IEM's sound better too, then why not use it with them as well.




As Dr. Cavalli posted recently, when using 1X gain the output power will be slightly less than the input so yes, lowering the voltage on the input source will also lower the noise floor, no matter if it's balanced or SE.


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> Good Grief Peanuts! Here is the customer support number for Fedex Call 1.800.GoFedEx 1.800.463.3339. I suggest Everybody who is waiting for their LC call Fedex.. If everybody gangs up on Fedex they may be able to resolve this quicker. A great button to push with them is Poor Customer Service.




I might need to call that number..... Shipment showed it arrived in Canada but now shows its just departed Oakland California, and no longer has an expected delivery date. Hmmmm......


----------



## DocD

Going from Hugo > LC the SE has a humming noise. This is true for IEM being the loudest (K10 custom) to TH900 to difficult to drive T1's (softest but still audible if no music playing). I e-mailed Alex about this and his response was that this is expected for the single ended output as the LC is really built for balanced output. 

The balanced output is dead quiet. I go from 2.5 balanced cable to Norne hypershort 2.5 to 4 pin adaptor for the IEM's. Have adaptors going to 3.5 or 6.5 single ended when using single ended amps or Hugo alone. 

Music with Hugo at line out / full volume levels distorts with the LC so I use it with volume set on dark blue and works fine that way. 

LC bass is really good - think I will change my T1's back to stock earpads (has leather now for warmer sound and to fill in the bass a bit).


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

x relic x said:


> I might need to call that number..... Shipment showed it arrived in Canada but now shows its just departed Oakland California, and no longer has an expected delivery date. Hmmmm......




Weird. My tracking still shows status as label created. I mean, fed ex doesn't even have my package, which means it's still with the manufacturer, let alone departing any facility. So much for 150 units leaving on Friday/Saturday :l


----------



## bearFNF

Hope they get moving, I plan to be out of town for the holidays.
 Might miss the shipment and then it will get sent back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 May need to ask them to hold it depending on when it actually starts moving.


----------



## Riona

Just received email from Cavalli that my order number 1151 will ship around 18th.... Yeah!


----------



## GCTD

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Weird. My tracking still shows status as label created. I mean, fed ex doesn't even have my package, which means it's still with the manufacturer, let alone departing any facility. So much for 150 units leaving on Friday/Saturday :l




I don't know what their freaking deal is, their logistics coordinator doesn't inspire confidence when they don't know what the deal is either


----------



## Cardiiiii

At the end of the day, Alex and his team are just relaying information given to them by the manufacturer. So if they promise to ship by X date, then that is what we are told. I'm sure if there is any further update we will be informed on one of the threads.


----------



## mscott58

cardiiiii said:


> At the end of the day, Alex and his team are just relaying information given to them by the manufacturer. So if they promise to ship by X date, then that is what we are told. I'm sure if there is any further update we will be informed on one of the threads.




And I'm sure Alex and his team are pulling their hair out and swearing to never do this again (which I hope isn't true as his little portable amp is great too!). Cheers


----------



## Cardiiiii

mscott58 said:


> And I'm sure Alex and his team are pulling their hair out and swearing to never do this again (which I hope isn't true as his little portable amp is great too!). Cheers




I would be very surprised if this manufacturer is going to be making them.


----------



## runeight

cardiiiii said:


> I would be very surprised if this manufacturer is going to be making them.


 
  
 That would be the understatement of the year.


----------



## Cardiiiii

runeight said:


> That would be the understatement of the year.




LOL


----------



## mscott58

runeight said:


> That would be the understatement of the year.




I feel your pain my friend! Keep your chin up, it's an awesome product.


----------



## sling5s

mscott58 said:


> I feel your pain my friend! Keep your chin up, it's an awesome product.


 

 +1


----------



## Mr Rick

runeight said:


> That would be the understatement of the year.


 
  


cardiiiii said:


> I would be very surprised if this manufacturer is going to be making them.


 
  
 Such is the state of electronics manufacturing. In another life I was the one they sent to 'baby sit' such vendors.


----------



## coastal1

I got a FedEx shipping notification late Friday EST. when I clicked on it it just showed the label had been created. Still showing the same.

I doubt this is a FedEx issue and seems to be a problem with the manuf./distributor. For example, anyone can create a FedEx shipping label and it will trigger the shipping notice, but there's nothing FedEx (or any other carrier) can do until the shipper delivers the product to FedEx, including arranging FedEx to pick it up.



x relic x said:


> I might need to call that number..... Shipment showed it arrived in Canada but now shows its just departed Oakland California, and no longer has an expected delivery date. Hmmmm......


----------



## conquerator2

riona said:


> Just received email from Cavalli that my order number 1151 will ship around 18th.... Yeah!



Same! Order 1169.
#Hyped


----------



## x RELIC x

coastal1 said:


> I got a FedEx shipping notification late Friday EST. when I clicked on it it just showed the label had been created. Still showing the same.
> 
> I doubt this is a FedEx issue and seems to be a problem with the manuf./distributor. For example, anyone can create a FedEx shipping label and it will trigger the shipping notice, but there's nothing FedEx (or any other carrier) can do until the shipper delivers the product to FedEx, including arranging FedEx to pick it up.




Sorry, no, this is a FedEx issue. Tracking had my unit in Canada and now it's back in the US in Seattle after going back to California. FedEx is moving my LC across North America.


----------



## coastal1

Yes, sorry, quoted the wrong post. That's a FedEx issue. Throwing a package over a gate is a FedEx issue. 

I don't think the issue that I and others are having (label created but no movement) is a FedEx issue. Anyone can create a label, but the shipper needs to deliver product to FedEx (including arranging FedEx pickup) in order for FedEx to move the package



x relic x said:


> Sorry, no, this is a FedEx issue. Tracking had my unit in Canada and now it's back in the US in Seattle after going back to California. FedEx is moving my LC across North America.


----------



## TON13

coastal1 said:


> I got a FedEx shipping notification late Friday EST. when I clicked on it it just showed the label had been created. Still showing the same.
> 
> I doubt this is a FedEx issue and seems to be a problem with the manuf./distributor. For example, anyone can create a FedEx shipping label and it will trigger the shipping notice, but there's nothing FedEx (or any other carrier) can do until the shipper delivers the product to FedEx, including arranging FedEx to pick it up.


 

 Exactly.  Trying to stay positive but...​
  
 December 9: Shipping label created
 December 11: Estimated shipping date
 December 14: No movement at all.  Still showing shipping label created. 
  
 Order # 844
  
 Nothing I can do but just forget about it at this point.  I feel bad for Alex and Co.  This is crazy.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Yep. Still no movement whatsoever on my tracking no. This is not a fed ex issue. FE has historically been great for me. I've had more issues with UPS' slow asses more than FE which usually always arrives on the expected date except for one time when a train derailed with my K3003 aboard it. This comes down to the manufacturer buying time to cover their asses. I'm hoping there's a delivery this week, but at this point I'm not holding my breath or anything.


----------



## swspiers

ton13 said:


> Nothing I can do but just forget about it at this point.  I feel bad for Alex and Co.  This is crazy.


 
 For me, it's a headphone amp.  Possibly a great one, but it's still just an amp.
  
 For Alex and Co., it's their livelihood.  They have more skin in the game than I do.  I just really, really appreciate the fact that they built this at all.  I'm sure I will have it  soon enough!


----------



## hifi808

runeight said:


> That would be the understatement of the year.


 

 Actually, I find this comment a little troubling but not because the manufacturer/assembler may not be used in the future (that's between you and them), but because the public airing of such ill feelings and future relationships (or the lack thereof) may further exacerbate what seems to be an already tenuous relationship.  As someone who has not yet received my LC, I'm now worried that the manuf/assembler, whether it's a natural reaction to public criticism or an intentional attempt to embarrass Cavalli Audio, will no longer work hard to get through the backlog.  Even worse, I worry that they will resort to doing shoddy work just to get the units out the door and leave you with a tech support nightmare.  I hope and trust that you'll be deploying adequate resources to ensure that these scenarios do not occur.
  
 While I understand and sympathize with your frustrations, I kinda wish such public comments were delayed until all units were in the hands of their respective owners and known to be in good working order.
  
 But it is the holiday season and I'm hopeful that everything will all work out favorably and in a few weeks all the fretting and hand-wringing will be a vague memory (for the owners anyway).   fingers crossed.


----------



## rmullins08

hifi808 said:


> Actually, I find this comment a little troubling but not because the manufacturer/assembler may not be used in the future (that's between you and them), but because the public airing of such ill feelings and future relationships (or the lack thereof) may further exacerbate what seems to be an already tenuous relationship.  As someone who has not yet received my LC, I'm now worried that the manuf/assembler, whether it's a natural reaction to public criticism or an intentional attempt to embarrass Cavalli Audio, will no longer work hard to get through the backlog.  Even worse, I worry that they will resort to doing shoddy work just to get the units out the door and leave you with a tech support nightmare.  I hope and trust that you'll be deploying adequate resources to ensure that these scenarios do not occur.
> 
> While I understand and sympathize with your frustrations, I kinda wish such public comments were delayed until all units were in the hands of their respective owners and known to be in good working order.
> 
> But it is the holiday season and I'm hopeful that everything will all work out favorably and in a few weeks all the fretting and hand-wringing will be a vague memory (for the owners anyway).   fingers crossed.


 
  
 I would be more than surprised if the manufacturer/assembler is reading anything on the forum, and that they would let any of that get in front of their commitments to Cavalli.


----------



## JK-47

Alex mentioned he would fly to LA to get things sorted out if need be... I hope he's on his way as we speak...


----------



## runeight

hifi808 said:


> Actually, I find this comment a little troubling but not because the manufacturer/assembler may not be used in the future (that's between you and them), but because the public airing of such ill feelings and future relationships (or the lack thereof) may further exacerbate what seems to be an already tenuous relationship.  As someone who has not yet received my LC, I'm now worried that the manuf/assembler, whether it's a natural reaction to public criticism or an intentional attempt to embarrass Cavalli Audio, will no longer work hard to get through the backlog.  Even worse, I worry that they will resort to doing shoddy work just to get the units out the door and leave you with a tech support nightmare.  I hope and trust that you'll be deploying adequate resources to ensure that these scenarios do not occur.
> 
> While I understand and sympathize with your frustrations, I kinda wish such public comments were delayed until all units were in the hands of their respective owners and known to be in good working order.
> 
> But it is the holiday season and I'm hopeful that everything will all work out favorably and in a few weeks all the fretting and hand-wringing will be a vague memory (for the owners anyway).   fingers crossed.


 
  
 Yeah, I see what you mean, but I was just talking about the portable production (in response to comment) not referring to the Carbon. Volumes on the portable will be considerably higher and will need a somewhat different approach.
  
 I was just trying to be a bit humorous, but I forgot to put the winky face.


----------



## Cardiiiii

runeight said:


> Yeah, I see what you mean, but I was just talking about the portable production (in response to comment) not referring to the Carbon. Volumes on the portable will be considerably higher and will need a somewhat different approach.
> 
> I was just trying to be a bit humorous, but I forgot to put the winky face.


 
 Well I guess at this point we can only have a laugh over the situation. Although, did you manage to find out if last weeks batch has actually been handed over to FedEx & USPS? Also, are people getting empty USPS labels being created or is it FedEx only?


----------



## Damnegy

cardiiiii said:


> Well I guess at this point we can only have a laugh over the situation. Although, did you manage to find out if last weeks batch has actually been handed over to FedEx & USPS? Also, are people getting empty USPS labels being created or is it FedEx only?


 

 I chose USPS (but I'm abroad), shipping was on the week of the 8th (mail received on the 9th, package received by USPS on the 10th), the package has been "processed through the sort facility" since Dec. 11th, didn't change since...


----------



## Cardiiiii

damnegy said:


> I chose USPS (but I'm abroad), shipping was on the week of the 8th (mail received on the 9th, package received by USPS on the 10th), the package has been "processed through the sort facility" since Dec. 11th, didn't change since...




Well at least it's been physically shipped.


----------



## bearFNF

WOOT WOOT!!! I have movement. No not that kind, (bathroom humor, sorry) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I mean my Liquid Carbon was "picked up" by FedEx, Scheduled for delivery 12/18.
 Which means I will be stalking the FedEx routes at lunch on Friday. We only have two trucks in our area. And one of them has my phone number no so she knows how to get me when she needs me.


----------



## TON13

Same here.  Mine is headed to her final resting place.  Going to be busy Thursday evening.


----------



## GCTD

> Originally Posted by www.fedex.com/img/forum/go_quote.gif
> *Picked up​*


 
  
 My reaction:


----------



## Hoztel

gctd said:


> My reaction:


 
 LOL  yeh just looked at my tracking for fed ex, delivery for tomorrow.... yes =D


----------



## mandrake50

#690. Mine is on the move. Delivery Thursday.
 Had it sent to my office, cost me a day and $13. It will be signed for though...


----------



## Cardiiiii

So I'm guessing this shipping delay was only for FedEx?


----------



## mandrake50

cardiiiii said:


> So I'm guessing this shipping delay was only for FedEx?


 

 Probably not. My impression is that the manufacturer just started shipping any of the second batch.
 A guess, but supported by all of the people reporting so far.


----------



## Anjolie

Got my notification that I'm receiving my LC tomorrow!  I've been sick home alone for the last few days and it's going to make a nice companion to cozy up to while I recover


----------



## m0nster

While you guys are impatiently waiting for the device someone is selling it for 680 usd already. Guess for some it's more like an investment


----------



## defbear

And here I thought everyone here was a selfless altruistic individual. Umm. Does it include shipping? Considering no-wait $680 isn't exactly price gouging.


----------



## m0nster

defbear said:


> And here I thought everyone here was a selfless altruistic individual. Umm. Does it include shipping? Considering no-wait $680 isn't exactly price gouging.



Without shipping and pp fees. I just didn't consider it too head-fi like, since Cavalli really offered a bargain for the head-fi community with the LC. But it's not a problem at all either, actually. Free market


----------



## Cardiiiii

Haha, where is it up for sale? The price isn't too bad to be honest. Maybe he blind bought it and didn't like it.


----------



## m0nster

cardiiiii said:


> Haha, where is it up for sale? The price isn't too bad to be honest. Maybe he blind bought it and didn't like it.




It's in the "Amplification for sale" section on head-fi. Go get it!


----------



## cskippy

I'm pretty sure it's against Head-Fi rules to sell for profit.  If the seller paid that WITHOUT shipping then okay, but I paid $616.17 with shipping for my $599 amp.


----------



## x RELIC x

He's Canadian and $599 US is equal to $820.60 CAD plus I just paid FedEx $108 for duties and taxes. That's a grand total of $928.60 CAD for the amp without shipping costs, which works out to $676.18 US. Give the guy a break as he's in it deeper than most of you in the US.


----------



## m0nster

x relic x said:


> He's Canadian and $599 US is equal to $820.60 CAD plus I just paid FedEx $108 for duties and taxes. That's a grand total of $928.60 CAD for the amp without shipping costs, which works out to $676.18 US. Give the guy a break as he's in it deeper than most of you in the US.




I agree. Sorry for bringing it up! Case closed.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Looked through the first few pages, can't find it. Must have sold!


----------



## swspiers

I just paid $5 to make sure it's not delivered while I'm at work on Friday. Small cost to pay!


----------



## Shawnb

m0nster said:


> While you guys are impatiently waiting for the device someone is selling it for 680 usd already. Guess for some it's more like an investment




Wow that was quick.
But yeah the fact he's Canadian explains it. I ended up paying almost $950 for the amp with shipping. Damn exchange rate


----------



## Cardiiiii

shawnb said:


> Wow that was quick.
> But yeah the fact he's Canadian explains it. I ended up paying almost $950 for the amp with shipping. Damn exchange rate




Same to Aussie, around $960 or so. But thankfully no import duties.


----------



## Shawnb

cardiiiii said:


> Same to Aussie, around $960 or so. But thankfully no import duties.




Yeah thankfully none here ethier. Taxes alone will cone to just over $100 so no duties is great. 
Still that exchange rate is a killer


----------



## doctorjazz

I saw the ad as well, was surprised, but glad for the explanation.


----------



## Hoztel

OK. now all thats left here is for the fed ex guy to come with my LC.....
 Camped out in the garage again, amp is on the truck and on the way! 
 Its almost over lol....


----------



## m usicguy

Im not going to lie.  when ever i get a tracking number for something I have ordered.  I wait by the door ,  like a little puppy.
  
 Im willing to wait for cavalli and the manufacture to make a good headphone amp.  
  
 In the bicycle world.  Richard Sachs has a 5-7 year  waiting list.  So waiting an extra week for a phenomenal headphone amp is not big deal.  
  
 musicguy


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

hoztel said:


> OK. now all thats left here is for the fed ex guy to come with my LC.....
> Camped out in the garage again, amp is on the truck and on the way!
> Its almost over lol....


 
  
 ...or its almost begun.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Anyone in whose amp was supposed to ship in the week of 14th Dec (3rd batch) got their shipping notice yet?


----------



## Maconi

The website says that the LC's THD is 0.004 @ 4VRMS. Does that mean that it's 0.001 @ 1VRMS or is it not that simple? If not, what's the THD @ 1VRMS then?


----------



## Cardiiiii

hoztel said:


> OK. now all thats left here is for the fed ex guy to come with my LC.....
> 
> Camped out in the garage again, amp is on the truck and on the way!
> 
> Its almost over lol....




Did you get it yet?


----------



## Hoztel

cardiiiii said:


> Did you get it yet?


 

 nah still waiting the first fed ex truck didn't even come by so its probably on the truck that comes next which should be in like an hour or so I'm guessing unless they are really backed up today....
 BUT at least its coming and i know its on the truck haha =D


----------



## x RELIC x

BOOM!





Graduated to the impressions thread.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> BOOM!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats my friend! Enjoy


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> BOOM!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So jealous!!! Post unboxing pics then.


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> So jealous!!! Post unboxing pics then.




Impressions thread.....


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> Impressions thread.....




Just saw, even more jealous now.


----------



## Hoztel

uhhhhh fed ex be messing up today...... it says my unit is on the truck to be delivered today..... but now it just went back to pending...... but its still on the truck? lol whattttttt. =/


----------



## gto88

cardiiiii said:


> Anyone in whose amp was supposed to ship in the week of 14th Dec (3rd batch) got their shipping notice yet?


 
 I don't have it yet.


----------



## jamato8

cardiiiii said:


> Anyone in whose amp was supposed to ship in the week of 14th Dec (3rd batch) got their shipping notice yet?


 

 No notice of shipping yet.


----------



## purk

jamato8 said:


> No notice of shipping yet.


 
 Should be shipping by the end of this week accord to Terry.
  


> RE: Liquid Carbon Shipping Info Verification (reminder)
> 
> Acct - Cavalli Audio
> Add to contacts
> ...


----------



## Cardiiiii

Thanks for the update. Given that last weeks batch only shipped towards the end was more or less expecting this.


----------



## Hoztel

Oh its worth the wait..... As i was about to step out the door and get in my car the fed ex truck pulled up finally hahaha... Imagine that.


----------



## mscott58

hoztel said:


> Oh its worth the wait..... As i was about to step out the door and get in my car the fed ex truck pulled up finally hahaha... Imagine that.




Congrats! Enjoy


----------



## warrenpchi

x relic x said:


> Graduated to the impressions thread.


 
  
 Hahahaha!


----------



## ying

x relic x said:


> He's Canadian and $599 US is equal to $820.60 CAD plus I just paid FedEx $108 for duties and taxes. That's a grand total of $928.60 CAD for the amp without shipping costs, which works out to $676.18 US. Give the guy a break as he's in it deeper than most of you in the US.


 
  
 Yeah I received mine today, cost $105 cad for the brokerage fees etc.. but damn this thing sound real good right out of the box. I haven't compare it with my other amps, so I can't confirmed if it is me or the amp. But it seems like there is a lot more space and air when I am listening with my er4pt. I haven't even tried it with my HD800 yet. Going to do that tomorrow night I guess haha.


----------



## aamefford

I ordered the Carbon in April.  I impulse ordered a new, small, inexpensive tube amp from another popular vendor last Friday.  Both of them will get here tomorrow....


----------



## Anjolie

I just received my LC and plugged my Audio-gd DAC 19 and iMac and then nothing.......complete silence.  I went through the connections a few more times and still nothing.  Tried single and balanced outputs and still nothing.  Tried hooking up my AK100ii via 3.5mm and more nothingness
  
 What am I missing?  Help


----------



## ying

anjolie said:


> I just received my LC and plugged my Audio-gd DAC 19 and iMac and then nothing.......complete silence.  I went through the connections a few more times and still nothing.  Tried single and balanced outputs and still nothing.  Tried hooking up my AK100ii via 3.5mm and more nothingness
> 
> What am I missing?  Help


 
 I thought I had the same problem in the beginning. Just to make sure Single end output LED would be red and Balanced would be white. Double check that. If not check if your dac has vari, fixed or different types of output when connecting.


----------



## jarnopp

anjolie said:


> I just received my LC and plugged my Audio-gd DAC 19 and iMac and then nothing.......complete silence.  I went through the connections a few more times and still nothing.  Tried single and balanced outputs and still nothing.  Tried hooking up my AK100ii via 3.5mm and more nothingness
> 
> What am I missing?  Help




Power cord?

(Sorry, couldn't resist be more time)


----------



## x RELIC x

anjolie said:


> I just received my LC and plugged my Audio-gd DAC 19 and iMac and then nothing.......complete silence.  I went through the connections a few more times and still nothing.  Tried single and balanced outputs and still nothing.  Tried hooking up my AK100ii via 3.5mm and more nothingness
> 
> What am I missing?  Help





DAC-19 input selector set to USB (input 1)?


----------



## Anjolie

ying said:


> I thought I had the same problem in the beginning. Just to make sure Single end output LED would be red and Balanced would be white. Double check that. If not check if your dac has vari, fixed or different types of output when connecting.


 
 I checked the DAC19 user manual and it seems I've got the right selection (1) for USB input from my iMac (preferences shows the Combo384 Amanero USB selected) and then RCA's out to the LC and balanced selected with my 4-pin XLR to my Sony Z7.  I can hear some background hum or hiss but just barely.....could be my brain lol.  However pressing the gain switch does elicit a small "thub" sound like that's working I guess.  Still no sound *heavy sigh*


----------



## Anjolie

jarnopp said:


> Power cord?
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't resist be more time)


 
 Yes on the power cord


----------



## Hoztel

anjolie said:


> I checked the DAC19 user manual and it seems I've got the right selection (1) for USB input from my iMac (preferences shows the Combo384 Amanero USB selected) and then RCA's out to the LC and balanced selected with my 4-pin XLR to my Sony Z7.  I can hear some background hum or hiss but just barely.....could be my brain lol.  However pressing the gain switch does elicit a small "thub" sound like that's working I guess.  Still no sound *heavy sigh*


 

  


anjolie said:


> Yes on the power cord


 

 lol...why don't you try a different input or without the DAC19 to confirm it works or if its something in between.


----------



## Anjolie

hoztel said:


> lol...why don't you try a different input or without the DAC19 to confirm it works or if its something in between.


 
 I did disconnect the DAC19 and then connected my AK100ii via 3.5mm to see if that would solve the issue but it didn't seem to work either


----------



## hifi808

If you are connecting the DAC19 to the LC via RCAs, then the right-most button on the LC should be pushed-IN and the LED should be Red. That button lets you choose which INPUT you're using, not which headphone output you're using. 
  
 This is what Ying was trying to get across to you above.


----------



## Anjolie

hifi808 said:


> If you are connecting the DAC19 to the LC via RCAs, then the right-most button on the LC should be pushed-IN and the LED should be Red. That button lets you choose which INPUT you're using, not which headphone output you're using.
> 
> This is what Ying was trying to get across to you above.


 
 Thank you, but I tried that as well.  Neither SE or balanced selected seems to output a single at this point.  I'm sure I'm missing something simple, but I can't see it right now.  It's all very frustrating


----------



## Anjolie

Tried a different USB out from the iMac and still nothing.....ugh


----------



## Maconi

Eliminate variables until you have it down to one item. Try listening to the DAC 19 with another amp using all the exact same settings/cables. If that works then it is indeed something with the LC.


----------



## ying

Sorry for silly question but when you are burning in the amp do you keep your volume level at where you were listening at or you just turn it all the way down?? LOL!


----------



## Anjolie

maconi said:


> Eliminate variables until you have it down to one item. Try listening to the DAC 19 with another amp using all the exact same settings/cables. If that works then it is indeed something with the LC.


 
 Switched out the DAC19 for my Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC and EUREKA!  I have music!
  
 So I guess my DAC19 is bad.  Lovely


----------



## Anjolie

Thanks to everyone for their advice and help.  I really appreciate it


----------



## incognitodave

Glad you figured it out! Nothing is worse than having new toys and not being able to play with them.


----------



## Jozurr

anjolie said:


> Switched out the DAC19 for my Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC and EUREKA!  I have music!
> 
> So I guess my DAC19 is bad.  Lovely




Is your DAC-19 not working with any amp? thats worrying


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

anjolie said:


> I just received my LC and plugged my Audio-gd DAC 19 and iMac and then nothing.......complete silence.  I went through the connections a few more times and still nothing.  Tried single and balanced outputs and still nothing.  Tried hooking up my AK100ii via 3.5mm and more nothingness
> 
> What am I missing?  Help


 
  
 Check the input switch?


----------



## conquerator2

anjolie said:


> Switched out the DAC19 for my Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC and EUREKA!  I have music!
> 
> So I guess my DAC19 is bad.  Lovely



Pretty sure its just the USB in. Troubleshoot that and try different inputs.
Its always the USB finicky scoundrel thats too blame


----------



## leafs

Liquid Carbon in house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just started the process of burn-in, Gumby balanced-out - LC - balanced to ETHER. 
  
 LC looks really small. The machine warms up after 5-6 mins. Now the burn-in.


----------



## sheldaze

leafs said:


> Liquid Carbon in house.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Your setup, LC and ETHER - heard it and definitely considered it as one of my potential end game options.
 Hope you enjoy!


----------



## bearFNF

Mine is taking the scenic route.
Ventura CA -> Bloomington CA -> Hurley NM... 
Must be afraid of the snow storm moving through my area.


----------



## GavThomson

@Dave74 looks like you have a similar setup to me...hugo > LC > he-500.....any comments?


----------



## Dave74

gavthomson said:


> @Dave74 looks like you have a similar setup to me...hugo > LC > he-500.....any comments?


 

 My LC hasn't shipped yet.  I'm in the Dec. 18th group.  From what I read so far it seem like the chord products pair well with the LC though.


----------



## leafs

sheldaze said:


> Your setup, LC and ETHER - heard it and definitely considered it as one of my potential end game options.
> Hope you enjoy!


 

 Thank you! Hopefully soon I can share some constructive impression after I finish critical listening. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## cskippy

So delivery was scheduled for today but I had some errands to run.  I know that Fedex gets to my house around 10:30-11.  I tell my Dad to be on the lookout for a package.  Come home, see notice on the front door saying customer not home, rescheduled for tomorrow...
  
 Doorbell is a little sticky so you have to push it a couple times/wiggle it around.  Man, it was soooooo close!   I'll be watching outside tomorrow morning for sure!


----------



## bearFNF

Wow!! Mine must be going home to Cedar Park, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It's 166 miles north in Santo Tx. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 So the journey so far is Ventura CA -> Bloomington CA -> Hurley NM -> Santo TX...
 Where will it stop next, no one knows...


----------



## defbear

Everyone who has not received their Liquid Carbon has my most Heartfelt Sympathy.


----------



## atomicbob

For those of you waiting (and those with units in hand) here are measurements on your auditory treasure:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/791505/cavalli-liquid-carbon-technical-measurements#post_12169058


----------



## aamefford

Order 699 has landed.


----------



## Cardiiiii

atomicbob said:


> For those of you waiting (and those with units in hand) here are measurements on your auditory treasure:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/791505/cavalli-liquid-carbon-technical-measurements#post_12169058


 
  
 The numbers don't make sense to me but are they good?


----------



## zachawry

I got a message saying mine would ship the "week of the 18th" of December. That doesn't actually make a lot of sense. Usually "week of" begins with Monday. The week of the 18th of December is already mostly over, and I don't have a shipping notice. Or does that mean "Within 7 days starting December 18?" That doesn't make sense either.


----------



## Cardiiiii

zachawry said:


> I got a message saying mine would ship the "week of the 18th" of December. That doesn't actually make a lot of sense. Usually "week of" begins with Monday. The week of the 18th of December is already mostly over, and I don't have a shipping notice. Or does that mean "Within 7 days starting December 18?" That doesn't make sense either.




That means in the week after 18th of dec


----------



## bearFNF

It really means nothing, it will actually have shipped when you get the notice from FedEx that they received the package at their facility. 

Mine was scheduled to ship the week of the 8th, I guess some people's weeks start on Tuesday?  It didn't get to FedEx facility until the 14th.

Oh and now it's in Eagleville, MO on its meandering way,hopefully to me by this Friday.

PS I may have figured it out Dec 8th was a Monday last year. so they must have meant it would be delivered by time machine back to last Dec. Or they were just looking at a 2014 ccalendar by mistake?? Personally, I think it's the time machine, though.


----------



## TON13

Today is the day and out for delivery.  Man it can't get here fast enough.  All my balanced cables arrived yesterday.


----------



## atomicbob

cardiiiii said:


> The numbers don't make sense to me but are they good?



 
Yes, they are good.


----------



## cbar

Order 703 (serial 193) has landed!


----------



## jamato8

Hey, where is mine? I got a notice for the 18th but nothing has happened. Oh, the agony, the pain, the . . I have other amps, it's ok. lol


----------



## sling5s

jamato8 said:


> Hey, where is mine? I got a notice for the 18th but nothing has happened. Oh, the agony, the pain, the . . I have other amps, it's ok. lol


 
 "is currently scheduled to ship around December 18, 2015" 
 Mine said "around" so that could be today or couple days later I guess.


----------



## stuart1927

Mine said shipping w/c 14th Dec...but I have heard nothing


----------



## sling5s

stuart1927 said:


> Mine said shipping w/c 14th Dec...but I have heard nothing


 

 Gee if yours said 14th and you haven't heard nothing than I guess for those who are scheduled for 18th is going to be even more delayed.


----------



## Shini44

stuart1927 said:


> Mine said shipping w/c 14th Dec...but I have heard nothing


 
  


sling5s said:


> Gee if yours said 14th and you haven't heard nothing than I guess for those who are scheduled for 18th is going to be even more delayed.


 
 they will be shipped by the end of this week , both of them , at least i hope ^^ 

 stay positive people


----------



## gto88

Wish it can arrive next week, so I can enjoy it in coming long holiday vacation.


----------



## J4MES

My LC arrives tomorrow after paying £89 customs fee. I am just wondering will fiio 3.5mm interconnect work for use between my Mojo and LC? 

Those using the Mojo as a DAC are you powering it the whole time or running it on battery?


----------



## defbear

All sarcasm aside. I would be on the horn to FedEx and getting a case number and a case manager with a direct line to their desk until this was resolved. Put some pressure on, relieve some stress.


----------



## TON13

jamato8 said:


> Hey, where is mine? I got a notice for the 18th but nothing has happened. Oh, the agony, the pain, the . . I have other amps, it's ok. lol


 
  
 Just as a point of reference, mine was scheduled to ship the week of December 8th and it was just delivered this afternoon (Order #844).  Hang in there.


----------



## mscott58

j4mes said:


> My LC arrives tomorrow after paying £89 customs fee. I am just wondering will fiio 3.5mm interconnect work for use between my Mojo and LC?
> 
> Those using the Mojo as a DAC are you powering it the whole time or running it on battery?


 
 That IC will work fine. However, it is a bit awkward to use such a short interconnect between the Mojo and LC. 
  
 All that being said, the Mojo sounds SWEET over the LC. 

 Cheers


----------



## Cardiiiii

stuart1927 said:


> Mine said shipping w/c 14th Dec...but I have heard nothing




Same, they will probably ship on Friday or Saturday.


----------



## Mattyhew

j4mes said:


> My LC arrives tomorrow after paying £89 customs fee. I am just wondering will fiio 3.5mm interconnect work for use between my Mojo and LC?
> 
> Those using the Mojo as a DAC are you powering it the whole time or running it on battery?


 
  
 Good to know what price I should expect, how much of a delay did customs add?


----------



## GCTD

j4mes said:


> My LC arrives tomorrow after paying £89 customs fee. I am just wondering will fiio 3.5mm interconnect work for use between my Mojo and LC?
> 
> Those using the Mojo as a DAC are you powering it the whole time or running it on battery?




You need 3.5mm TRRS (3 black lines) interconnects to take advantage of balance connection.


----------



## bearFNF

gctd said:


> You need 3.5mm TRRS (3 black lines) interconnects to take advantage of balance connection.


 

 The 3.5 input is SE... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 So no need for a balanced 3.5 input to the LC.
 The phase splitter does the "balancing" for you.


----------



## GCTD

bearfnf said:


> The 3.5 input is SE... :blink:
> So no need for a balanced 3.5 input to the LC.
> The phase splitter does the "balancing" for you.




I stand corrected, thank you.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm not 100% sure about that. Sure, I know about the splitter, but, if the signal out of the dac is better from the balanced output, the sound coming out of the LC will be better from the balanced dac input, seems to me. my Pono is like that, has option for balanced or single ended out, less noise and better sound is out of the balanced. While the splitter will give the same quality IF ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL, it will not improve the sound of the single ended input from the dac if it is less than the balanced. Could be a pretty small difference, not sure it is worth going nuts over (haven't gotten balanced cables for Pono to LC yet, but I'm considering it), but makes sense to me in certain situations this would be true. The LC outs are not equal, the output from the DAC may not be either (or they may, will vary unit to unit, I'd guess). 
My $0.02.


----------



## vince741

Got my shipment notification!
Number 490 will find a new home on Monday


----------



## stjj89

vince741 said:


> Got my shipment notification!
> Number 490 will find a new home on Monday


 
  
 Congratulations! What was your order #?


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> I'm not 100% sure about that. Sure, I know about the splitter, but, if the signal out of the dac is better from the balanced output, the sound coming out of the LC will be better from the balanced dac input, seems to me. my Pono is like that, has option for balanced or single ended out, less noise and better sound is out of the balanced. While the splitter will give the same quality IF ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL, it will not improve the sound of the single ended input from the dac if it is less than the balanced. Could be a pretty small difference, not sure it is worth going nuts over (haven't gotten balanced cables for Pono to LC yet, but I'm considering it), but makes sense to me in certain situations this would be true. The LC outs are not equal, the output from the DAC may not be either (or they may, will vary unit to unit, I'd guess).
> My $0.02.




Mojo only runs SE, but I have to say the SE output of the Mojo into the phase-splitter of the LC beats some balanced outputs of other DACs into the LC. Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

mscott58 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not 100% sure about that. Sure, I know about the splitter, but, if the signal out of the dac is better from the balanced output, the sound coming out of the LC will be better from the balanced dac input, seems to me. my Pono is like that, has option for balanced or single ended out, less noise and better sound is out of the balanced. While the splitter will give the same quality IF ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL, it will not improve the sound of the single ended input from the dac if it is less than the balanced. Could be a pretty small difference, not sure it is worth going nuts over (haven't gotten balanced cables for Pono to LC yet, but I'm considering it), but makes sense to me in certain situations this would be true. The LC outs are not equal, the output from the DAC may not be either (or they may, will vary unit to unit, I'd guess).
> ...




Sure, the single end output of some gear will beat balanced of different gear. That reflects good design, balanced isn't the only aspect of design and SQ (as you know). Often, the same component will sound better balanced out than single ended, though (but, even then, not always. I'm looking at you, CEntrance Hifi M8, with your phony balanced out...). I'm on the tour of the Mojo, really looking forward to getting to hear what the fuss is all about (my bank account may not be as thrilled about it, though).


----------



## bearFNF

doctorjazz said:


> I'm not 100% sure about that. Sure, I know about the splitter, but, if the signal out of the dac is better from the balanced output, the sound coming out of the LC will be better from the balanced dac input, seems to me. my Pono is like that, has option for balanced or single ended out, less noise and better sound is out of the balanced. While the splitter will give the same quality IF ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL, it will not improve the sound of the single ended input from the dac if it is less than the balanced. Could be a pretty small difference, not sure it is worth going nuts over (haven't gotten balanced cables for Pono to LC yet, but I'm considering it), but makes sense to me in certain situations this would be true. The LC outs are not equal, the output from the DAC may not be either (or they may, will vary unit to unit, I'd guess).
> My $0.02.



The question asked was if his 3.5 interconnect would work. Which it will. Nothing was said about balanced vs SE quality. That would be a different discussion and a subjective one IMO.


----------



## GCTD

Dang, mine was suppose to be delivered today but Fedex Ground doesn't deliver past 7pm. Oh well.


----------



## vince741

stjj89 said:


> Congratulations! What was your order #?



1215


----------



## doctorjazz

bearfnf said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not 100% sure about that. Sure, I know about the splitter, but, if the signal out of the dac is better from the balanced output, the sound coming out of the LC will be better from the balanced dac input, seems to me. my Pono is like that, has option for balanced or single ended out, less noise and better sound is out of the balanced. While the splitter will give the same quality IF ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL, it will not improve the sound of the single ended input from the dac if it is less than the balanced. Could be a pretty small difference, not sure it is worth going nuts over (haven't gotten balanced cables for Pono to LC yet, but I'm considering it), but makes sense to me in certain situations this would be true. The LC outs are not equal, the output from the DAC may not be either (or they may, will vary unit to unit, I'd guess).
> ...




I'm not sure about the Mojo, will have one soon on tour to play with. If it has balanced and single ended out options, and IF the balanced has lower noise or is otherwise better sounding, that should translate to better sound through the LC, seems to me. Do you HAVE to do it? Of course not! I use the single ended out of my Pono into the LC, haven't wanted to spend the money on the balanced cables, it sounds great as is. But, I'm thinking about getting those balanced cables. But, if the only question is, do I HAVE to have balanced cables, the answer is certainly no. The discussion always seems to imply that there CAN'T be any difference using balanced vs single ended input for the LC; I was just expressing my view that that may not be so. It may be small, but it may be there in certain situations. Nuff Said!


----------



## thomson

The original question was about how to connect the Mojo and since the Mojo only has single ended out, the easiest way (which in this case probably also is the best way) is to connect it to the LC with a short cable with 3.5mm TRS connectors in both ends.


----------



## bearFNF

Reading the MOJO manual it appears the only way to hook it up to the LC is the 3.5 SE output unless I am missing something. Will wait to see what you find out.





doctorjazz said:


> I'm not sure about the Mojo, will have one soon on tour to play with. If it has balanced and single ended out options, and IF the balanced has lower noise or is otherwise better sounding, that should translate to better sound through the LC, seems to me. Do you HAVE to do it? Of course not! I use the single ended out of my Pono into the LC, haven't wanted to spend the money on the balanced cables, it sounds great as is. But, I'm thinking about getting those balanced cables. But, if the only question is, do I HAVE to have balanced cables, the answer is certainly no. The discussion always seems to imply that there CAN'T be any difference using balanced vs single ended input for the LC; I was just expressing my view that that may not be so. It may be small, but it may be there in certain situations. Nuff Said!


----------



## stjj89

vince741 said:


> 1215


 
  
 Wow, I'm #927 and only have only had my addressed confirmed, and no shipping confirmation yet. Lucky you!


----------



## doctorjazz

thomson said:


> The original question was about how to connect the Mojo and since the Mojo only has single ended out, the easiest way (which in this case probably also is the best way) is to connect it to the LC with a short cable with 3.5mm TRS connectors in both ends.




OK, if the only line out on the Mojo is single ended, obviously, you have to go single ended out of the Mojo. (boy, did I just manage to waste a whole lot of electrons on this  )


----------



## x RELIC x

bearfnf said:


> Reading the MOJO manual it appears the only way to hook it up to the LC is the 3.5 SE output unless I am missing something. Will wait to see what you find out.





Yes, you are correct. There is no possibility to output a balanced signal from the Mojo. Rob Watts, the designer of the Mojo, has said that with his analogue out implementation that balanced would actually hinder the sound quality. Currawong recently posted on the subject in the Mojo thread. The beauty of the Liquid Carbon is the way it handles SE input and having tested it myself I see no need to fret about using balanced input vs SE input at all.


----------



## thomson

doctorjazz said:


> ...(boy, did I just manage to waste a whole lot of electrons on this  )




It could have been worse, you could have used both CAPITALS AND *BOLD FACE*


----------



## Cardiiiii

vince741 said:


> 1215




I'm assuming you're with FedEx?


----------



## Currawong

x relic x said:


> bearfnf said:
> 
> 
> > Reading the MOJO manual it appears the only way to hook it up to the LC is the 3.5 SE output unless I am missing something. Will wait to see what you find out.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, it sounded fine through the SE input anyhow. It's the balanced *output* you really want to be using over the SE.


----------



## Shawnb

vince741 said:


> Got my shipment notification!
> Number 490 will find a new home on Monday


 
  
 Nice. Got my shipping notice as well. Or least the shipping label is created, expected to ship tomorrow so we'll see. If it does it's expected to be delivered by Monday. 
 Number 492 here   Order 1217


----------



## Cardiiiii

Order #959 ready to roll out. Didn't get a serial number though.


----------



## Youth

Mine has just been shipped!


----------



## Shini44

youth said:


> Mine has just been shipped!


 
 was you told it will be shipped on the 14th or 18th?


----------



## sahmen

Order #941, and still no news about shipment, although I did shipping address confirmation on Dec. 9th, and was promised my order would ship in the week of Dec. 14th.  If orders # 959, 1215, and 1217 have received their shipping notices, then why haven't I (#941) received my notice as yet?
  
 For the first time, I am feeling rather mistreated by cavalli audio, and getting mighty p*ssed when I look inside my inbox and there is no notice....


----------



## Viper2005

Got my shipping notice & tracking number for order #1211 !
It's got a long way to travel (via USPS) but hopefully I'll see it before the end of the year!


----------



## Shini44

viper2005 said:


> Got my shipping notice & tracking number for order #1211 !
> It's got a long way to travel (via USPS) but hopefully I'll see it before the end of the year!


 
 mine is 1209 though it says "Order Number: PP1209a"   which means 1209??
  
hope i will get my shipping notice today :' )


----------



## yage

sahmen said:


> Order #941, and still no news about shipment, although I did shipping address confirmation on Dec. 9th, and was promised my order would ship in the week of Dec. 14th.  If orders # 959, 1215, and 1217 have received their shipping notices, then why haven't I (#941) received my notice as yet?
> 
> For the first time, I am feeling rather mistreated by cavalli audio, and getting mighty p*ssed when I look inside my inbox and there is no notice....


 
  
 I'm in the same boat with order #1139. All I can say is: calm down. You'll get your amp. Not a big deal.


----------



## sahmen

yage said:


> I'm in the same boat with order #1139. All I can say is: calm down. You'll get your amp. Not a big deal.


 
 Well, you have seen the numbers...  There is definitely some inexplicable weirdness (not to mention "injustice") going on there which is not typical with the way Cavalli Audio seems to treat their customers normally...  So may I ask what explains your "calmness" and zen, and why you do not think i should be righteously outraged?


----------



## jarnopp

Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good...


----------



## Jozurr

sahmen said:


> Well, you have seen the numbers...  There is definitely some inexplicable weirdness (not to mention "injustice") going on there which is not typical with the way Cavalli Audio seems to treat their customers normally...  So may I ask what explains your "calmness" and zen, and why you do not think i should be righteously outraged?




Orders are being shipped out by courier/destination and not by numerical sequence. The shipping is also handled by the manufacturer and not directly Cavalli Audio.


----------



## yage

sahmen said:


> Well, you have seen the numbers...  There is definitely some inexplicable weirdness (not to mention "injustice") going on there which is not typical with the way Cavalli Audio seems to treat their customers normally...  So may I ask what explains your "calmness" and zen, and why you do not think i should be righteously outraged?


 
  
 Because maybe your amp had final QA / QC issues and needed to be pulled. Perhaps the replacement part is in shipping purgatory because the manufacturing team runs a lean production line and the holiday rush is slowing the supply chain down. I'm sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons that amps aren't shipping according to order number. Besides, I wouldn't mistake the order number for a place in a queue - it's just for identification purposes.
  
 I ordered about a month and a half ago, so maybe you've been waiting longer than me. I sympathize, I really do - but this isn't a matter of life or death. (Well, at least to most outside observers.)


----------



## Youth

shini44 said:


> was you told it will be shipped on the 14th or 18th?


 
  

Mailing Date:12/18/2015


----------



## sahmen

yage said:


> Because maybe your amp had final QA / QC issues and needed to be pulled. Perhaps the replacement part is in shipping purgatory because the manufacturing team runs a lean production line and the holiday rush is slowing the supply chain down. I'm sure there are plenty of legitimate reasons that amps aren't shipping according to order number. Besides, I wouldn't mistake the order number for a place in a queue - it's just for identification purposes.
> 
> I ordered about a month and a half ago, so maybe you've been waiting longer than me. I sympathize, I really do - but this isn't a matter of life or death. (Well, at least to most outside observers.)


 
 Well, I wasn't thinking "life or death," but more along the lines of "fair and unfair."  Oh, and I ordered in July, and I am not usually the kind of customer who typically complains, so this morning's mood is kind of rare, by my standards... Incidentally, I sent a query about my issue to Cavalli Audio customer service, and I have received the following prompt response, which has somewhat had a bit of the 'calming" effect you have mentioned:
  
 *********
To my knowledge none of this week’s amp have actually shipped (the ones you reference just have the labels created). The last update we had from our fulfillment center was that all the amps would ship this week. I would expect that you will get a tracking notice today. When you do, click on the link and it will show the details (label created, in transit, etc).
  
Thanks for checking,
**********


----------



## sling5s

yage said:


> I'm in the same boat with order #1139. All I can say is: calm down. You'll get your amp. Not a big deal.


 

 Are you sure about your order no. I'm 1139 too.


----------



## yage

sling5s said:


> Are you sure about your order no. I'm 1139 too.


 
  
 Sorry #1137.
  
 Neener neener. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (Now if somebody else chimes in with, "But I'm #1137"...)


----------



## Shawnb

A few of us just have the shipping label created. That's all I've gotten so far, though email header says shipping notice so I can see where the confusion comes from. 
I'm hoping mine actually ships today


----------



## rmullins08

sahmen said:


> Well, I wasn't thinking "life or death," but more along the lines of "fair and unfair."  Oh, and I ordered in July, and I am not usually the kind of customer who typically complains, so this morning's mood is kind of rare, by my standards... Incidentally, I sent a query about my issue to Cavalli Audio customer service, and I have received the following prompt response, which has somewhat had a bit of the 'calming" effect you have mentioned:
> 
> *********
> To my knowledge none of this week’s amp have actually shipped (the ones you reference just have the labels created). The last update we had from our fulfillment center was that all the amps would ship this week. I would expect that you will get a tracking notice today. When you do, click on the link and it will show the details (label created, in transit, etc).
> ...


 
  
 Looks like the numbers who have received notices are mostly international.  I know on the first batch that international shipments were going out first.  It's not Cavalli doing anything shady, it's just the nature of logistics.


----------



## swspiers

Mine is on the truck with Fedex, ready for delivery.
  
 I spent the extra $5 to have delivered between 5 and 8.  I'm not taking any chances!


----------



## GCTD

jarnopp said:


> Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good...




That sucks bad. That's another long wait to send it back for warranty after waiting to get it for months.


----------



## bearFNF

swspiers said:


> Mine is on the truck with Fedex, ready for delivery.
> 
> I spent the extra $5 to have delivered between 5 and 8.  I'm not taking any chances!


Mine too. But I have to find the FedEx truck to get it. Or play hooky from work. Cough cough, is that a cold coming on?


----------



## VandyMan

sahmen said:


> Well, you have seen the numbers...  There is definitely some inexplicable weirdness (not to mention "injustice") going on there which is not typical with the way Cavalli Audio seems to treat their customers normally...  So may I ask what explains your "calmness" and zen, and why you do not think i should be righteously outraged?


 

 Lets not forget that Cavalli is a small boutique audio company. I personally think you should give them a break and give yourself a break by letting go of your outrage. Injustice and outrage are very strong words for what you are experiencing. "Annoyed" would be more appropriate. Cavalli has been very open about the difficulties with their shipper. I'm waiting on mine too. I'll give them another week or so before I start to even think about getting angry. And, if that happens, I'll contact them before I complain loudly here.


----------



## adobotj

sahmen said:


> Order #941, and still no news about shipment, although I did shipping address confirmation on Dec. 9th, and was promised my order would ship in the week of Dec. 14th.  If orders # 959, 1215, and 1217 have received their shipping notices, then why haven't I (#941) received my notice as yet?
> 
> For the first time, I am feeling rather mistreated by cavalli audio, and getting mighty p*ssed when I look inside my inbox and there is no notice....




Order #956 here and still no shipping notice. Only address confirmation and shipping estimate week of 14th. How come this is happening?

Edit: just read the potential reasons. Makes sense. I just hope I get my shipping notice already.


----------



## 435090

Considering the cost (and the substantial discount Cavalli is offering the community relative to the amp's value), I'd rather they get it right rather than be shipped something with QC issues.


----------



## bearFNF

Order #642 checking in. Got flagged down by a stealth FedEx driver (his truck broke down and he was in a budget rental truck) at subway and got my amp!! 

He said his drive shaft broke on his truck two days ago and almost put him in the river.


----------



## Mattyhew

vandyman said:


> Lets not forget that Cavalli is a small boutique audio company. I personally think you should give them a break and give yourself a break by letting go of your outrage. Injustice and outrage are very strong words for what you are experiencing. "Annoyed" would be more appropriate. Cavalli has been very open about the difficulties with their shipper. I'm waiting on mine too. I'll give them another week or so before I start to even think about getting angry. And, if that happens, I'll contact them before I complain loudly here.


 
  
 Annoyed at least for me is still a little OTT. Considering the motives behind the creation of this amp as well as the above points you made people should be feeling "disappointed" at worst, saved your righteous fury for things that really matter.
  
 The amp will arrive when it arrives, I for one don't have the desire to worry about things outside of my control.


----------



## mscott58

bearfnf said:


> Order #642 checking in. Got flagged down by a stealth FedEx driver (his truck broke down and he was in a budget rental truck) at subway and got my amp!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh dear, can you imagine if that had happened with your LC in the back! Now that would be a true horror story!


----------



## rigo

I don't remember what shipping method I chose. Looked up my order and it wasn't there. My order confirmation stated 

Shipping Service: GROUND_HOME_DELIVERY

Is that USPS or another service?


----------



## conquerator2

rigo said:


> I don't remember what shipping method I chose. Looked up my order and it wasn't there. My order confirmation stated
> 
> Shipping Service: GROUND_HOME_DELIVERY
> 
> Is that USPS or another service?


 
 Pretty sure that's FedEx Ground


----------



## Cardiiiii

Alex did make it clear the remaining amps would be shipped by shipping method and not necessarily order number. Sucks, but thats what's happening, besides, it's just a matter of days anyway.


----------



## sahmen

vandyman said:


> Lets not forget that Cavalli is a small boutique audio company. I personally think you should give them a break and give yourself a break by letting go of your outrage. Injustice and outrage are very strong words for what you are experiencing. "Annoyed" would be more appropriate. Cavalli has been very open about the difficulties with their shipper. I'm waiting on mine too. I'll give them another week or so before I start to even think about getting angry. And, if that happens, I'll contact them before I complain loudly here.


 
  
  


mattyhew said:


> Annoyed at least for me is still a little OTT. Considering the motives behind the creation of this amp as well as the above points you made people should be feeling "disappointed" at worst, saved your righteous fury for things that really matter.
> 
> The amp will arrive when it arrives, I for one don't have the desire to worry about things outside of my control.


 
  
  
 I see that my deliberate choice of such colorful expressions as "mighty p*ssed," "injustice,"  "righteous outrage", blah, blah, blah, is getting some feathers "unduly ruffled", although it would seem that it is those who are overly sensitive to those expressions who are also asking me to be "calm," and take an "it's no biggie" attitude...  Well, I agree that those words might invoke some over-the-top sentiments for some folks...  I have to say that they really do not reflect the actual nature of the feelings I was experiencing at the time I typed them, as I deliberately opted to add some color and "oomph" to my choice of words for emphasis and attention grabbing effects...
  
 Be that as it may, let me reassure everyone who is concerned that I was not and have not been sitting behind my terminal seething with rage like some volcano about to  erupt, or festering like some cannon about to explode...
  
 I do really feel some sense of frustration, however, which I shall attempt to explain as calmly as possible... It has to do with the shipping address I have provided for my LC, and worse, confirmed to Cavalli Audio, on the basis of information I was given by the address confirmation e-mail...   The problem is that under the assumption that the unit might ship around December 14th, as indicated by that address confirmation e-mail, I confirmed a shipping address at which neither I nor anyone might be available to receive the shipment beginning from December 23rd, and lasting well into the new year...
  
 I confirmed this address, which is my usual residential address, because I figured if the unit were to ship between 14th and even the 16th, there was a very good chance of my receiving it by December 23rd, which is the date at which I am scheduled to leave my provided shipping address for the holidays in a different state...  Now today is December 18th, and I have still not even received my shipping notice...  I am seriously doubting now, whether my unit would reach me in Massachusetts by December 23rd even if it were to ship today, which I also seriously doubt it would, and I am not sure if I still even have time to change my shipping address, in order to divert my unit to an alternative "safer" delivery address, such as my Office, where it could be held safely for me indefinitely until my return...  
  
 That actually may be the only option I have, because I do not want a delivery attempt to be made at my place of residence when I am out of town for the holidays, and I do not want the unit to be either left at my door in my absence, returned to sender, or worse, lost in transit....
  
 I hope you now understand the source of my concern...  Question is, what is the best course of action to take under these circumstances?


----------



## bearFNF

Can you have it held for pickup at the shipping company office? Not sure what method of shipment you chose.

Or have Alex rredirect it. Might come with a fee, though.


----------



## sahmen

bearfnf said:


> Can you have it held for pickup at the shipping company office? Not sure what method of shipment you chose.


 
 My shipping service option reads "Ground Home Delivery", so I suppose that might be fedex or UPS:  I do not know how long these companies might agree to hold something at their premises for pick-up... I have to look into that.


----------



## bearFNF

If it is FedEx they have "hold for pickup", "redirect", or even "vacation hold" options. Vacation hold let's you specify a range of dates for them to hold your shipments.


----------



## KK22

Invoice number 870, Serial number 00267 has landed. Currently being broken in through a balanced input on High Gain, via my BDP105D. LCD-X is disconnected as advised in the manual. 
  
 Initial sound impressions are VERY favorable. Honestly, it may be too loud for a low impedance HP like the LCD-X. Can't turn knob over 9 o'clock position on high gain. And not over 11 o'clock on low gain.  Given that max volume is around 5 o'clock position.
  
 Impactful, rich sound. A touch of grainy sibilance on the top end. Hoping the burn in with smooth that out.
  
 Happy Listening.


----------



## jarnopp

kk22 said:


> Invoice number 870, Serial number 00267 has landed. Currently being broken in through a balanced input on High Gain, via my BDP105D. LCD-X is disconnected as advised in the manual.
> 
> Initial sound impressions are VERY favorable. Honestly, it may be too loud for a low impedance HP like the LCD-X. Can't turn knob over 9 o'clock position on high gain. And not over 11 o'clock on low gain.  Given that max volume is around 5 o'clock position.
> 
> ...



I agree with the volume comments. The LC is not really needed to drive even the Vibros when coming from an ample source like the Mojo. YMMV with lower output sources. But, I will say ( though others will disagree - looking at you @grizzlybeast) that the LC is capable of driving the HE-6. Need to do more listening and comparing to them being driven by a home amp and others, but IPhone->Mojo->LC->HE-6 could be end game for me.


----------



## x RELIC x

kk22 said:


> Invoice number 870, Serial number 00267 has landed. Currently being broken in through a balanced input on High Gain, via my BDP105D. LCD-X is disconnected as advised in the manual.
> 
> Initial sound impressions are VERY favorable. Honestly, it may be too loud for a low impedance HP like the LCD-X. Can't turn knob over 9 o'clock position on high gain. And not over 11 o'clock on low gain.  Given that max volume is around 5 o'clock position.
> 
> ...




How loud do you listen? I can't go much past 9 o'clock on LOW gain with the less efficient ETHER C (22 Ohm - 92 dB efficiency).


----------



## Jozurr

jarnopp said:


> I agree with the volume comments. The LC is not really needed to drive even the Vibros when coming from an ample source like the Mojo. YMMV with lower output sources. But, I will say ( though others will disagree - looking at you @grizzlybeast) that the LC is capable of driving the HE-6. Need to do more listening and comparing to them being driven by a home amp and others, but IPhone->Mojo->LC->HE-6 could be end game for me.


 
  
 Driving the HE-6 to listenable volumes is one thing, getting the best out of the HE-6 is another...


----------



## rmullins08

Invoice number:1038
Reference:Serial # 00378

Shipping notice received


----------



## RKML0007

Order #1165 - LC serial #449 

FedEx tracking info received and shows "picked up"

Whoohoo!!!


----------



## GCTD

x relic x said:


> How loud do you listen? I can't go much past 9 o'clock on LOW gain with the less efficient ETHER C (22 Ohm - 92 dB efficiency).




Is the input source too hot? Could be that there's a lot of voltage on the line-out.


----------



## sling5s

1139 shipping notice received!


----------



## VandyMan

sahmen said:


> Be that as it may, let me reassure everyone who is concerned that I was not and have not been sitting behind my terminal seething with rage like some volcano about to  erupt, or festering like some cannon about to explode...
> 
> [trimmed]
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had assumed you were not actually as angry as your post sounded and I was not at all upset by your post. I do think you are very stressed out by the whole experience, which is a shame, understandable, and unnecessary. I was trying to offer some calming words. Perhaps I failed. I say it is unnecessary because you really need to get in touch with Cavalli and ask for assistance. If that fails you, then please do get angry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Why don't you give Cavalli a call on the phone? They could possibly hold your package and ship it after the holidays or change the shipping address. At a minimum, they can probably give you some guidance about when it will actually go out.

 I'm #1171 and just got Fed Ex notification. Shipped from Ventura, CA literarily 15 minutes ago! Maybe yours has been sent too?


----------



## gto88

Just got fedex shipping notice too. shipped from Ventura,CA according to FEdex, order#963.


----------



## x RELIC x

gctd said:


> Is the input source too hot? Could be that there's a lot of voltage on the line-out.




Good point. The HA-1 balanced out is 4.6V and the DAC-19 SE out is 2.5V yet the volume difference when hot switching between SE and balanced input on the Liquid Carbon doesn't show much volume level change. Going to do more testing in a while, but the SE input being converted to balanced at the amp seems to bring it up to the level of the balanced input. Not definitive as I haven't done any volume matching or detailed testing yet, just general listening impressions so far.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone who lives in the L.A area get their shipping notice and have it delivered on the same day by Fed Ex?
 Ventura is so close to me.


----------



## chowmein83

kk22 said:


> Initial sound impressions are VERY favorable. Honestly, it may be too loud for a low impedance HP like the LCD-X. Can't turn knob over 9 o'clock position on high gain. And not over 11 o'clock on low gain.  Given that max volume is around 5 o'clock position.


 
  


x relic x said:


> How loud do you listen? I can't go much past 9 o'clock on LOW gain with the less efficient ETHER C (22 Ohm - 92 dB efficiency).


 
  
 I don't think you're the only ones here with the volume knob turned low. Listening with the HE-400i, I usually only have the knob turned around 9 o'clock. With the HE-1000, I have the knob turned around 10 o'clock. I will say that I'm not a loud listener though.
  
 Luckily my main DAC has a preamp function built into it, so I can change how loud it is outputting into the LC. The volume knob positions I described above were with my DACs at full volume.


----------



## RKML0007

The fastest I got a FedEx Home/Ground service level package delivered was next day with shipment origin in the greater Los Angeles and even San Diego areas.


----------



## leafs

x relic x said:


> How loud do you listen? I can't go much past 9 o'clock on LOW gain with the less efficient ETHER C (22 Ohm - 92 dB efficiency).


 

 I'm using Gumby -> LC -> ETHER, balanced, listening mostly at 9 o'clock on LOW gain. For poorer quality songs, 10 o'clock.


----------



## CaptainCB

I'm enjoying some fine ass ike and Tina Turner... followed by Paerish... followed by Fair to Midland.... just for a quick chance to experience what could be....
  
 I gotta be clear... I'm here to enjoy the extreme beauty of what can be conveyed by my gear. Not just to own things others cannot. That being said... I am in bliss with this beginning of a playlist. My Liquid Carbon is strong and not leaving things behind. An amazing presentation!!!!!
  
 Schitt Yggdrasil feeding into the Carbon and into an incredibly special Audeze LCD-3 via Toxic Cables Venom.
  
 Can't wait for the Liquid Gold... which has been proof of some really strong customer service by Alex Cavalli and crew!!!! Amazing response time and dedication to bad ass customer experiences!


----------



## KK22

x relic x said:


> How loud do you listen? I can't go much past 9 o'clock on LOW gain with the less efficient ETHER C (22 Ohm - 92 dB efficiency).




You running a BDP105D at 100% XLR outs too? Might be your source. 9 is max. for me, not typical.


----------



## x RELIC x

leafs said:


> I'm using Gumby -> LC -> ETHER, balanced, listening mostly at 9 o'clock on LOW gain. For poorer quality songs, 10 o'clock.




Interesting. The HA-1(balanced), DAC-19(SE), and Gumby(balanced) to the ETHER family seem to all be about the same with the LC. I'm also a low(safe) volume listener, around 80-85 dB average. What I like is that the Liquid Carbon doesn't need loud volume to feel the dynamics in the music. Loving this amp!


----------



## x RELIC x

kk22 said:


> You running a BDP105D at 100% XLR outs too? Might be your source. 9 is max. for me, not typical.




What? Sorry, I don't have a BDP-105, and I haven't hooked up my BDP-83 to the Liquid Carbon. I'm using the HA-1 on fixed output of 4.6V balanced and the DAC-19 with its fixed output of 2.6V. Not much volume change between the two on the LC. And yes, I said I'm around 9 o'clock.....


----------



## leafs

x relic x said:


> Interesting. The HA-1(balanced), DAC-19(SE), and Gumby(balanced) to the ETHER family seem to all be about the same with the LC. I'm also a low(safe) volume listener, around 80-85 dB average. What I like is that the Liquid Carbon doesn't need loud volume to feel the dynamics in the music. Loving this amp!


 

 Yes, I sort of raise my eye brown when I slowly turn up the volume on the first time. I haven't yet put on my LCD2r2 to see how it turns out, perhaps after burn-in. I have not really touch my LCD2r2 ever since I got ETHER. I'm currently enjoying the burn-in process before I proceed to critical listening. But man, LC is definitely engaging.


----------



## sahmen

vandyman said:


> I had assumed you were not actually as angry as your post sounded and I was not at all upset by your post. I do think you are very stressed out by the whole experience, which is a shame, understandable, and unnecessary. I was trying to offer some calming words. Perhaps I failed. I say it is unnecessary because you really need to get in touch with Cavalli and ask for assistance. If that fails you, then please do get angry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I also got my Fedex notification today, status : "Picked up."  Before then, I had spoken to Dr. Alex, and CA customer service, and the best and most practical option I have now, it turns out,  is to wait for the estimated delivery date to show up in my Fedex Tracking, and to re-direct the package to an alternative address if it is certain that it would not arrive here by Dec. 23rd.
  
 So fingers crossed.


----------



## GCTD

Ugh, two days in a row that Fedex weren't able to deliver. So I requested the package to be dropped off to local FedEx Office Print & Ship Center. I suspect I'll have problems with that drop off request too since I had the same problem with my Alpha Prime package. Sigh, Fedex is so lame. Come to think of it, my Amazon Prime uses mostly UPS, USPS, or AMZL_US even for 2 day deliveries.


----------



## Maconi

Order #1212
  
 Have only gotten Shipping Verification so far (no confirmation or tracking or etc.). Going to be a while longer it looks like.


----------



## conquerator2

Tracking notification, #1169


----------



## gto88

I wonder who will get the serial #500 unit.


----------



## jarnopp

jozurr said:


> Driving the HE-6 to listenable volumes is one thing, getting the best out of the HE-6 is another...




Jozurr, have you tried the LC with your HE-6s? I need to try some other combos, of course, but I really can't fault anything and do not see any lack of bass, authority, or control using the LC on high gain. Playing around with input voltage from the Mojo, but sounding good anywhere from about 2-4v or so. Would be interested in more experienced (with HE-6) user opinions.


----------



## x RELIC x

Just confirmed that the DAC-19's SE 2.5V output to the Liquid Carbon's SE input is the exact same volume as the HA-1's 4.6V balanced XLR output to the Liquid Carbon's balanced input listening to the Liquid Carbon's balanced output to my ETHER C. What sorcery is this? The wonderful phase splitter?

Set your phase(rs) on stun!! :eek:


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Just confirmed that the DAC-19's SE 2.5V output to the Liquid Carbon's SE input is the exact same volume as the HA-1's 4.6V balanced XLR output to the Liquid Carbon's balanced input listening to the Liquid Carbon's balanced output to my ETHER C. What sorcery is this? The wonderful phase splitter?
> 
> Set your phase(rs) on stun!! :eek:




Can't wait until you get the Mojo to see how it compares to the -19 with the LC. Cheers


----------



## stuart1927

Got mt tracking details tonight....no 987....serial 0347!


----------



## mandrake50

Well I have a tale to tell as long as we have turned this into an LC shipping discussion.
 I got my notification  12/4/2015. Like many of us this was just for the label having been printed. The unit was picked up on 12/14/2015 and hit the first FedEx facility in Ventura CA at 9:14 that night. Projected delivery was Thursday 12/17/2015. As there is a direct signature required, I paid $13.00 to redirect it to my Office. They said it would add a day. Thursday at 4:00 PM it was at the Henderson CO hub. No way it would make Thursday delivery. Ok an extra day for the redirect... right?. Nope they changed the delivery to Friday, then added another day to make it a Saturday delivery. Guess what, no one at the office on Saturday..
 I called them. Since it is ground, contractors deliver. I was told I could call the contractor in the morning tomorrow. If I caught the LC before it went on a truck, I may be able to drive across town and pick it up. If not, they would retry the delivery Monday. If I am n0ot mistaken FedEx home delivers Tuesday through Saturday meaning if I miss them tomorrow morning, maybe it will be retried Tuesday...
 BUT... as it is ground and the promise is "by the end of the day" delivery, they may not try to deliver it during business hours.
  
 Talk about mother screw*ing Murphy.  Maybe I can spend another $5 to make sure that they deliver it Tuesday during business hours???
  
 It will really piss me off if the thing ends up being sent back over this  comedy of errors...


----------



## mscott58

mandrake50 said:


> Well I have a tale to tell as long as we have turned this into an LC shipping discussion.
> I got my notification  12/4/2015. Like many of us this was just for the label having been printed. The unit was picked up on 12/14/2015 and hit the first FedEx facility in Ventura CA at 9:14 that night. Projected delivery was Thursday 12/17/2015. As there is a direct signature required, I paid $13.00 to redirect it to my Office. They said it would add a day. Thursday at 4:00 PM it was at the Henderson CO hub. No way it would make Thursday delivery. Ok an extra day for the redirect... right?. Nope they changed the delivery to Friday, then added another day to make it a Saturday delivery. Guess what, no one at the office on Saturday..
> I called them. Since it is ground, contractors deliver. I was told I could call the contractor in the morning tomorrow. If I caught the LC before it went on a truck, I may be able to drive across town and pick it up. If not, they would retry the delivery Monday.
> BUT... as it is ground and the promise is "by the end of the day" delivery, they may not try to deliver it during business hours.
> ...




I feel your pain. Unfortunately this also happens to coincide with peak holiday present shipping time and FedEx is getting slammed. Mr. Murphy is indeed right on this one. Fingers crossed it all works out. Cheers


----------



## adobotj

Mine is on transit already  
Invoice #956
Serial #319

Good times


----------



## GCTD

At last, my love has come along, my lonely days are over 
  
They finally decided to deliver to my house when I requested to drop it off at a local FedEx Office Print & Ship Center, probably because it was just 7min away from where I live. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Oh, well here she is. I tried my best to show her in her most glamorous angles. She's a cute petite, no?


----------



## tuxbass

@GCTD Great pictures !


----------



## tuxbass

My Amp shipped today, with an expected delivery date of Monday.
 That's a pleasant surprise considering it's going from CA -> NY ... fingers crossed.


----------



## Colgin

tuxbass said:


> My Amp shipped today, with an expected delivery date of Monday.
> That's a pleasant surprise considering it's going from CA -> NY ... fingers crossed.




Hope it gets there by Momday for you. I am a bit bummed. I got an email notice a week or so ago that mine was supposed to ship by 12/18. I emailed Cavalli earlier today and they said latest from fulfillment was still that remaining amps would ship by end of this week (beinfg Friday). Anyway I never received a tracking number today so I guess mine has not yet shipped. Hopefully soon.


----------



## GCTD

tuxbass said:


> My Amp shipped today, with an expected delivery date of Monday.
> That's a pleasant surprise considering it's going from CA -> NY ... fingers crossed.


 
  
  


colgin said:


> Hope it gets there by Momday for you. I am a bit bummed. I got an email notice a week or so ago that mine was supposed to ship by 12/18. I emailed Cavalli earlier today and they said latest from fulfillment was still that remaining amps would ship by end of this week (beinfg Friday). Anyway I never received a tracking number today so I guess mine has not yet shipped. Hopefully soon.


  


  
 May the audiophile gods favor you in the next couple of days.


----------



## stjj89

gctd said:


> At last, my love has come along, my lonely days are over
> 
> They finally decided to deliver to my house when I requested to drop it off at a local FedEx Office Print & Ship Center, probably because it was just 7min away from where I live.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great pictures! May I ask where you got those feet from?


----------



## Jozurr

jarnopp said:


> Jozurr, have you tried the LC with your HE-6s? I need to try some other combos, of course, but I really can't fault anything and do not see any lack of bass, authority, or control using the LC on high gain. Playing around with input voltage from the Mojo, but sounding good anywhere from about 2-4v or so. Would be interested in more experienced (with HE-6) user opinions.




I'm still waiting to receive the LC. I have tried the HE-6 on the Liquid Glass though. The LG could drive the HE-6 to listenable volumes, but the HE-6 lost the bass impact, energy and overall dynamics. The LG had no issues driving many other headphones which I tried on it at full potential.

Once I receive my LC I can post some impressions with the HE-6 too.


----------



## GCTD

stjj89 said:


> Great pictures! May I ask where you got those feet from?


 
  
 They're Dayton Audio's Isolation Cone Set. The ISO cone is available in 4 packs or 8 Packs, and color options are: Satin Nickel, Gold, Chrome, and Black. They're available at Amazon, Ebay, and Parts Express. They're for speakers and turntables, but I've seen it used on Dacs and Amps stacks too. It helps make Liquid Carbon a little less out of place against the size of Gustard DAC-X12.


----------



## Peridot

Serial #429 has begun its transatlantic journey.
  
 Delivery estimate is Monday. I've never received anything that quickly, but were the audiophile gods to favour me it would be especially nice as Monday is my birthday


----------



## sahmen

vandyman said:


> I had assumed you were not actually as angry as your post sounded and I was not at all upset by your post. I do think you are very stressed out by the whole experience, which is a shame, understandable, and unnecessary. I was trying to offer some calming words. Perhaps I failed. I say it is unnecessary because you really need to get in touch with Cavalli and ask for assistance. If that fails you, then please do get angry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


sahmen said:


> Yes, I also got my Fedex notification today, status : "Picked up."  Before then, I had spoken to Dr. Alex, and CA customer service, and the best and most practical option I have now, it turns out,  is to wait for the estimated delivery date to show up in my Fedex Tracking, and to re-direct the package to an alternative address if it is certain that it would not arrive here by Dec. 23rd.
> 
> So fingers crossed.


 
  
 New Update:  Fedex Tracking is now showing expected delivery date as : December 23rd!... So now I can wait here and take delivery of the product before heading out of town for the holidays!  Whew! Talk about "close shave"!  
  
 Fingers remain crossed for a pleasant, hitch-free, delivery episode, and definitely nothing like this one:


----------



## Viper2005

sahmen said:


>


 
  
 OMG That GIF!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's too funny!


----------



## Jozurr

Order 1207: Label created


----------



## pekingduck

Where did you guys get the serial # from? I checked all my mail from Cavalli and the USPS shipping notice (Priority Mail Express International)  but it's nowhere to be found... 
  
 Not that it matters, just curious..


----------



## sahmen

pekingduck said:


> Where did you guys get the serial # from? I checked all my mail from Cavalli and the USPS shipping notice (Priority Mail Express International)  but it's nowhere to be found...
> 
> Not that it matters, just curious..


 
 For what it's worth, the corresponding part of my own Fedex (US) notification looks like this, with the two crucial numbers being "invoice" # (or original order #), and serial #, both of which appear under "shipment facts":
  

 Shipment Facts      
*Tracking number:*775230014090*Invoice number:*941*Reference:*Serial # 00311*Service type:*FedEx Home Delivery*Packaging type:*Package*Number of pieces:*1*Weight:*3.00 lb.*Special handling/Services:*Direct Signature Required


----------



## Colgin

Looks like I am expecting delivery on Dec. 23. But I will be leaving town on Dec. 24. So I guess I will receive just in time to set up for burn in purposes and amp should be burned in by time I get back. Won't get to listen though until following week.


----------



## XenHeadFi

j4mes said:


> My LC arrives tomorrow after paying £89 customs fee. I am just wondering will fiio 3.5mm interconnect work for use between my Mojo and LC?
> 
> Those using the Mojo as a DAC are you powering it the whole time or running it on battery?


 
 Sorry for the very late reply, but I didn't have the time to dig up the relevant posts.
  
 Oops, seems like the posts I remembered were for TRRS out of a Chord Hugo and XLR3 into the Carbon. Oh well, I will leave these posts here in case anyone was planning on using TRRS out, like from a Geek Out v2.
  
 zachawry wanting to run TRRS to XLR: http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/300#post_11630311
  
 Dr. Cavalli's first reply: http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/300#post_11637093
  
 Dr. Cavalli's second reply http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/315#post_11637886
  


> Originally posted by runeight
> 
> Run a cable from the 3.5mm jack to the 3.5mm jack on the Carbon. This will connect the grounds of both boxes together and should solve any noise issues.
> 
> ...


----------



## stuart1927

What feet are you using there ?...looks great! Mine due to arrive Wednesday!


----------



## stuart1927

Sorry...saw that you'd already had that question and answered!


----------



## sling5s

Got shipping notice yesterday and arrived today. Perks of leaving in So. Cal.


----------



## Mattyhew

peridot said:


> Serial #429 has begun its transatlantic journey.
> 
> Delivery estimate is Monday. I've never received anything that quickly, but were the audiophile gods to favour me it would be especially nice as Monday is my birthday


 
  
  
 What Delivery Method did you choose? I chose USPS Priority Mail Express International, doesnt seem to give me a delivery estimate.


----------



## conquerator2

mattyhew said:


> What Delivery Method did you choose? I chose USPS Priority Mail Express International, doesnt seem to give me a delivery estimate.


 
 Express should be really fast.


----------



## RKML0007

sling5s said:


> Got shipping notice yesterday and arrived today. Perks of leaving in So. Cal.


 
 ditto - gazillion hour burn-in commenced!


----------



## swspiers

rkml0007 said:


> sling5s said:
> 
> 
> > Got shipping notice yesterday and arrived today. Perks of leaving in So. Cal.
> ...


 
 I see we have similar gear.  Looking forward to your impressions with the Primes!


----------



## mscott58

stuart1927 said:


> Sorry...saw that you'd already had that question and answered!




I chose not to install feet but instead placed a silicone rubber sheet under my LC so it is stable in sitting on the two rails and there is also some isolation due to the silicon. Also keeps the LC from sliding around since it's somewhat light. Cheers


----------



## GCTD

I redone some of the shots since I had better lighting during the day.


----------



## Peridot

mattyhew said:


> What Delivery Method did you choose? I chose USPS Priority Mail Express International, doesnt seem to give me a delivery estimate.


 
  
 Mine is coming FedEx.
  
 Just checked the tracking again and it has arrived at Stansted today!
  
 Looks like it could be out for delivery on Monday


----------



## mandrake50

If it is Home delivery like mine is, make that Tuesday. I could not intercept mine today. Supposedly they will deliver it to my Office Tuesday. They deliver Tuesday through Saturday...
 Damn, I should have taken Thursday off and just let them deliver it to my home address.


----------



## tuxbass

Spoke too soon, the expected delivery date went from Monday to Thursday 
 The Amp is shipping to my work address and I am out Thu and the following week, bummer.
  
 I may have to go to work for an hour or so just to secure the package and kick-off the burn-in


----------



## Cardiiiii

mattyhew said:


> What Delivery Method did you choose? I chose USPS Priority Mail Express International, doesnt seem to give me a delivery estimate.


 
 Did you get a serial number with your email? I didn't.


----------



## sujitsky

cardiiiii said:


> Did you get a serial number with your email? I didn't.




I had usps shipping and no serial number was there in the email.


----------



## Viper2005

I think only those with fedex had the serial number as part of the reference #


----------



## fengwei007

#1177 here, got tracking number yesterday, scheduled delivery next wed, then take another week or so to forward to me here in SG. I guess it's gonna be the new year gift instead of X'mas... Got the THX00 for X'mas though.

Serial no. 00458 on Fedax tracking site.


----------



## Shini44

my Serial Number is #499  , some lucky dude out there got the #500 after me , still 499 isn't bad  or so i do claim :' )


 btw i really think that Cavali Audio will wait and see the impact and reviews about the Liquid Carbon, if people reviewed it here and there, specially on the head-fi reviews official page, then we will give the chance for more head-fiers to be able to buy it
  
 if the demand goes higher, then any company would want to make extra $$$. 
  
  
 unless the whole limited and only 500 amps are for real :<  then i will feel sorry for the others who want it T_T


----------



## Riona

conquerator2 said:


> Same! Order 1169.
> #Hyped


 
  
 My order #1151 shipped out on 18th via USPS....
 May take a week or more to reach Singapore though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Fingers crossed!!


----------



## XenHeadFi

shini44 said:


> my Serial Number is #499  , some lucky dude out there got the #500 after me , still 499 isn't bad  or so i do claim :' )


 
 Since the numbers start at #0000 and Dr. Cavalli has that one, you have the last one if they made exactly 500 production models.


----------



## Shini44

xenheadfi said:


> Since the numbers start at #0000 and Dr. Cavalli has that one, you have the last one if they made exactly 500 production models.


 
 so turned out that i am "the dude out there" which i mentioned XD now i am Happy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 man i am so lucky, i didn't hear about Cavali Audio till one day before i payed for it, was asking a friend about Hugo TT + Master 9
  
 he told me the mids on the Cavali Audio is better (for my preference ofc) then i went to the site, and asked for one :3 
  
 they told me some guy wasn't able to pay, so i took the last one apparently, it was down to last two due someone not being able to pay etc.


----------



## astaff

I am looking for a hard case that will carry a cavalli liquid carbon and hifiman he 560 headphones. Hopefully the case will fit inside a backpack so I can carry on a plane.


----------



## nicolo

astaff said:


> I am looking for a hard case that will carry a cavalli liquid carbon and hifiman he 560 headphones. Hopefully the case will fit inside a backpack so I can carry on a plane.


 
  
 Can you comment on how this pairing sounds? Thanks.


----------



## defbear

Someone should have started a "Liquid Carbon Waiting For Delivery" thread. This is like watching commercials for the next election.


----------



## Peridot

defbear said:


> Someone should have started a "Liquid Carbon Waiting For Delivery" thread. This is like watching commercials for the next election.


 
  
 Can't help myself posting that I've just had confirmation that mine is on the van and will be delivered by noon.
  
 Considering it only left CA on Friday evening, that's pretty amazing.
  
 Have persuaded Mrs P. to remain home until it arrives as I'm at work.
  
 Next post should be first impressions


----------



## defbear

peridot said:


> Can't help myself posting that I've just had confirmation that mine is on the van and will be delivered by noon.
> 
> Considering it only left CA on Friday evening, that's pretty amazing.
> 
> ...


Congratulations!


----------



## zachawry

I've been pretty annoyed at all the "waiting for delivery" posts, but now I find myself just having to say....._*Mine is in Japan!*_
  
 (at the sort facility)
  
 I wonder if this is the first LC, or the first Cavalli, in Japan. 
  
 (Holy *&^%$#, I need to buy a power cable!!!)


----------



## MattTCG

astaff said:


> I am looking for a hard case that will carry a cavalli liquid carbon and hifiman he 560 headphones. Hopefully the case will fit inside a backpack so I can carry on a plane.


 
  
 This is not cheap but it's about as nice as you'll get. There is a top tray that holds the headphone and underneath is a perfect cut out that holds the Carbon nicely in place. I jumped on this when it was for sale and now I pat myself on the back regularly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/ruggedized-travel-case


----------



## astaff

nicolo said:


> Can you comment on how this pairing sounds? Thanks.


I am waiting on LC 434. It is being held at FedEx, hopefully on Dec 23. After, sometime together I will report back.


----------



## Shawnb

It's clear now i'm stuck in the Shipping label created limbo. Shows created on Thursday and nothing since then yet still shows a Scheduled delivery for today at Noon lol.
 So only god knows when I'll get my LC. Won't be before x-mas now.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Merry Christmas to me, my LC, serial #441 will be here Wednesday! 

Anybody using the LC with an iPad?


----------



## jamato8

I see mine is on the truck to be delivered today. 
  
 So Cavalli doesn't do the servicing of these if they need it?


----------



## RKML0007

wildcatsare1 said:


> Merry Christmas to me, my LC, serial #441 will be here Wednesday!
> 
> Anybody using the LC with an iPad?




I'm burning in the LC using tidal playlists on repeat from an iPad mini.


----------



## Jozurr

Serial # 494. Only shows label created since 18 December and then nothing..


----------



## Dave74

I received SN443 today
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.  Sounds good right out of the box, actually make that sounds AWESOME out of the box.
  
 I am burning it in while listening using Hugo>RCA>LC>HE-500 with balanced Headphone Lounge silver litz cable. Music just sounds so natural with this combo, the mids seem magical, engaging and non fatiguing.  The vocals are stunning in Cyndi Lauper's Time after Time (hi-rez). It's too bad the HE-500 are so heavy, I guess I will just have to build my neck muscles back up  I also tried my Q audio french silk copper litz cable and so far I prefer the silver litz, but I preferred the copper litz with my BHA-1.   I briefly tried my JVC HA-FX850 with SE Headphone Lounge silver litz cable which sounded great from the brief listen (1 song) as I don't won't to burn in SE, but wanted to make sure that the SE worked well with my IEMs.  Next I will have to try my Alpha Dogs with the balanced cable.
  
 Experimenting with the Hugo voltage/volume it seems I prefer a lower voltage from the Hugo and having the LC around 11:00-:1200 so far for the HE-500.  For FX850 I had the Hugo even lower (green).  
  
 Now I am waiting for my Mogami RCA cables and Asylum power cord.


----------



## rmullins08

I do enjoy watching the FedEx tour of america
  
 Ventura CA
 Bloomington CA
 Casa Blanca NM
 Stroud OK
 Greenfield IN
 Clinton Township NJ


----------



## pippen99

wildcatsare1 said:


> Merry Christmas to me, my LC, serial #441 will be here Wednesday!
> 
> Anybody using the LC with an iPad?


 
 Only as a controller for my Auralic Aries Mini streamer that is scheduled to arrive today.  Free year of Tidal with purchase.  I guess I'll see if Tidal is worth it shortly.


----------



## zachawry

My LC is hanging out in customs in Osaka, and I actually had a dream last night in which I was burning it in only to realize half-way through that I had been using SE instead of balanced. Horror!
  
 This has got to stop.


----------



## gto88

My LC was re-scheduled to deliver today, one day earlier, I was happy seeing that it is out for delivery.
 I have been waiting since morning for my LC 
 And Now, the delivery date became pending on Fedex web tracking page
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Why is this happening.


----------



## doctorjazz

zachawry said:


> My LC is hanging out in customs in Osaka, and I actually had a dream last night in which I was burning it in only to realize half-way through that I had been using SE instead of balanced. Horror!
> 
> This has got to stop.
> 
> :eek:



Aeieieieaeaeieia!!!!!!!


----------



## astaff

gto88 said:


> My LC was re-scheduled to deliver today, one day earlier, I was happy seeing that it is out for delivery.
> I have been waiting since morning for my LC
> And Now, the delivery date became pending on Fedex web tracking page
> Why is this happening.


Did you get a delivery on today? My scheduled date went from Wednesday to tomorrow. Am I going to be very disappointed? I was going to cancel Tuesday plans and wait for my delivery!


----------



## rmullins08

Since it required signature I had it directed to my local 24 hour FedEx kinkos.  Will pick up right after work and then it's play time!  Still says Thursday, but I'm hopeful it can make the final 63 miles before then.  Although my balanced cable won't be here until Thursday


----------



## gto88

astaff said:


> Did you get a delivery on today? My scheduled date went from Wednesday to tomorrow. Am I going to be very disappointed? I was going to cancel Tuesday plans and wait for my delivery!


 
 I don't think I will get it today, since the status is changed to pending and no delivery time.
  
 Updated, I just got it 2 minutes ago.


----------



## GCTD

The same thing happened to my package so requested it be dropped off at a local FedEx Office Print & Ship Center which wss 7min away from my house (the delivery adress), but the deilvery guy that was suppose to drop it off decided to deliver it to my address (probably realize it was 7min away from my house. I suggest ya'll do the same. What happens is FedEx will stop delivering after 7pm, must be because of the ocassion (late December), so they'll reschedule the deilvery (Delivery Exception) to next day.


----------



## adobotj

gto88 said:


> My LC was re-scheduled to deliver today, one day earlier, I was happy seeing that it is out for delivery.
> I have been waiting since morning for my LC
> And Now, the delivery date became pending on Fedex web tracking page
> Why is this happening.




Same here. Out for delivery then became pending all of the sudden without delivery estimate.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK guys, I know this has become the 'shipping thread' so I hope you don't mind this post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 And BTW - please finish reading the whole post first...
  
 So here's a few impressions / comparisons after 100 hrs. burn-in. 

Liquid Carbon (SE headphone out) versus Project Ember amp with upgraded tubes
 On the LC I got a sound that would be acceptable for a novice, but to a seasoned 'sound connoisseur' as myself, I found the LC lackluster with more to be desired in the dynamics / soundstage and detail dep't.
 On the Project Ember I get all those voids filled in: the impact & overall refinement is boosted by at least 30%, soundstage is noticeably larger and much more organic / true-to-life, instrument separation is improved yet still in a cohesive way, and more subtle details can be noticed.
  

Liquid Carbon (balanced headphone out) versus Project Ember amp with upgraded tubes
 Umm... WOWZA! ..._where am I and what's going on?!_ Something really special is happening here!!!
 Yup, the LC on balanced out is the real deal. Now I have to use a whole new vocabulary to compare this with the Ember. Words like immaculate, timeless, intimate, vivid, surreal come to mind on almost every test song.
 Compared to the Ember (which is only SE out), I'm now hearing a LOT more impact, clarity and hidden details I've never noticed before. It's super true to life / organic, and with a soundstage that is wonderful and cohesive!
  
 Folks I've gotta tell ya that the balanced output of the LC sounds *more than twice as good* as the SE output!!! Perhaps this defies logic, and this definitely bests my expectations of it being twice as good _at most_ - but hey this is the mysterious audio realm where specs alone don't always paint the whole picture. So for all of you who are enjoying the LC with only SE out, I would say leap at the first chance of upgrading to balanced - heck, 'knock down a few doors' to make it happen - this process is worth it's cost in droves! It transforms this amp from a 'meh' sound, and thrusts it way, way up into the stratosphere of audiophile excellence! And this amp still has another 50 hours to go for the recommended burn in!
  
 I would also like to re-emphasize for any of you worrying about balanced-*input: DON'T worry!!! *I have also done numerous A/B comparisons between the balanced to SE input of on the LC amp (seamlessly switching between the two simultaneously plugged in using the input selector on the right), and I was able to decipher absolutely 0% difference between the two (and yes I actually have recent documented perfect hearing test results from an audiologist as well). In fact, in some cases the SE input sounded better than the balanced, when I was using the Ember as a tube-buffer (preamp) with some really nice tubes.
  
 Balanced *output *to your headphone on the LC is really where the magic is at!!! I kid you not. And there are several users who are able to custom mod most headphone to balanced, even if it doesn't have removable cables. A few places to look for cheap custom balanced cable modding are: almost anybody on the DIY cables thread, user @Packdemon, or by contacting Peter K on Etsy.
  
 Notes on my comparisons: I was using well mastered FLAC jazz and pop songs played on a short loop thru the Gustard X12 DAC via Schiit Wyrd, and HD 650 balanced vs. unbalanced connections.
  
*EDIT*: In summary, the Ember is a solid performer of a SE amp with no negative reviews. The LC on the other hand, has robust build quality, and with the balanced output really propels your experience into a higher level - it takes you much "closer to the truth" of the recording!
  
 and PS - I was only using a thin stock HD 424 cable modded into balanced (shown below). Things could have been even better with the likes of a silver balanced cable and full burn in!


----------



## gto88

gto88 said:


> I don't think I will get it today, since the status is changed to pending and no delivery time.
> 
> Updated, I just got it 2 minutes ago.


 
 [adding a new post,] Fedex guys just delivered it.


----------



## Dave74

decentlevi said:


> OK guys, I know this has become the 'shipping thread' so I hope you don't mind this post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the review
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Have you noticed much change throughout the burn-in process?  I just received my LC this morning so it only has around 5 hours on it now, but I find it still sounds great  with my HE-500 (balanced cable).  I actually did like the SE though with my JVC FX850 IEM's, but that was a very brief listen (1 song), as I want to burn it in with a balanced HP and just wanted to make sure the SE would work well with IEM's.
  
 I am really thinking of making the HD-650 my next headphone purchase as I find my HE-500 quite heavy and hadn't used them for around 6 months.  I am hoping I will be able to find a decent deal on a pair on Boxing day.


----------



## aamefford

decentlevi said:


> OK guys, I know this has become the 'shipping thread' so I hope you don't mind this post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice!  Balanced = twice the voltage swing, 4x the power over SE.  I'm enjoying the check out of mine.


----------



## x RELIC x

aamefford said:


> ...............
> 
> ......I'm enjoying the *check* out of mine.





:blink:


----------



## defbear

gto88 said:


> [adding a new post,] Fedex guys just delivered it.


A Miracle for the Holidays.


----------



## jamato8

Using the HE1000 or the Pioneer Master SE1 with the balanced mode and very nice. At first it sounded meh, big time but after a few hours it is already opening up and smoothing out. Great dynamics and very fast sounding, meaning it doesn't smear the frequencies. The phones don't hurt either. Also I am using Whiplash cable with both phones, which does them proud. :^)


----------



## aamefford

x relic x said:


> :blink:



Hah! That's heck, for those who can't read "fat fingers on iPhone"


----------



## defbear

matttcg said:


> This is not cheap but it's about as nice as you'll get. There is a top tray that holds the headphone and underneath is a perfect cut out that holds the Carbon nicely in place. I jumped on this when it was for sale and now I pat myself on the back regularly.
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/ruggedized-travel-case
> [/quote
> ...


----------



## DecentLevi

dave74 said:


> Thanks for the review
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Actually I can't say definitively whether or not burn-in has made any difference. The reason being the burn-in process is much slower than my memory retention, so by the time 5-7 days have passed I have only my audio memory to compare it with, which is by nature somewhat faulty. But I'll keep on truckin' until the 150 hrs. just in case this helps it.
  
 That's a good point. For some low-z headphones (especially IEMs), the SE output may be more suitable electronically than balanced.


----------



## zaintachik

Balanced is the definitely the way to go with LC but in saying that, this is my first balanced amp.


----------



## Cardiiiii

dave74 said:


> Thanks for the review    Have you noticed much change throughout the burn-in process?  I just received my LC this morning so it only has around 5 hours on it now, but I find it still sounds great  with my HE-500 (balanced cable).  I actually did like the SE though with my JVC FX850 IEM's, but that was a very brief listen (1 song), as I want to burn it in with a balanced HP and just wanted to make sure the SE would work well with IEM's.
> 
> I am really thinking of making the HD-650 my next headphone purchase as I find my HE-500 quite heavy and hadn't used them for around 6 months.  I am hoping I will be able to find a decent deal on a pair on Boxing day.




Go for the HE400s instead. The 650s sounded pretty average compared to them.


----------



## Youth

cardiiiii said:


> Go for the HE400s instead. The 650s sounded pretty average compared to them.


 
  
 If driven by a prober system I disagree and would say it's rather the opposite in my experience.


----------



## Cardiiiii

youth said:


> If driven by a prober system I disagree and would say it's rather the opposite in my experience.




I listened to them both via an Auralic Taurus Mk 2 and I thought the HE400s was a lot better than the 650s. Pretty sure Tylls review and most other reviews said the same.


----------



## MattTCG

youth said:


> If driven by a prober system I disagree and would say it's rather the opposite in my experience.


 
 +1
  


cardiiiii said:


> I listened to them both via an Auralic Taurus Mk 2 and I thought the HE400s was a lot better than the 650s. Pretty sure Tylls review and most other reviews said the same.


 
 Quote from Tyll regard hd6x0 in his review, "Yup, I'll say it, one of the worlds greatest headphones."  
  
 400s is a decent sounding headphone and a good introduction into the realm of orthodynamics. But I would never put the 400s in the same sentence with the hd6x0 TBH, IMO, ymmv.


----------



## Cardiiiii

matttcg said:


> +1
> 
> Quote from Tyll regard hd6x0 in his review, "Yup, I'll say it, one of the worlds greatest headphones."
> 
> 400s is a decent sounding headphone and a good introduction into the realm of orthodynamics. But I would never put the 400s in the same sentence with the hd6x0 TBH, IMO, ymmv.




Did you read his review? He said the 400S bests the 650 by a modest margin.

My bad, he refers to the 600. But I did listen to the 650 and thought the 400S was better. Source was a A&K 340 I think and the amp was a Taurus Mk 2, flac files, listen to the usual Hotel California and some Eric Clapton and I remember thinking man this is an amazing headphone for the price and it was a no brainer. But I did listen in only single ended output so maybe it is a different beast in balanced mode.


----------



## vince741

Tyll also said:
  
 "In 1995, for Sennheiser's 50th anniversary, they produced the Sennheiser HD 580 Jubilee, which became the HD 600 introduced in 1997. And ever since, along with the 2003 introduction of the HD 650, these headphones have held a position of near reverence by headphone enthusiast—many of whom will claim they remain the pinnacle of price/performance value.
  I, too, hold this opinion...er...held this opinion. The HiFiMAN HE400S ($299), in my opinion, now claims this spot."
  

 "Given it's price and type, I find it best to compare them head-to-head with the venerable HD 600/650. Listening side-by-side, I've got to say I prefer the HE400S over the HD 600 by a modest margin."
  
 "I'm loath to dethrone the HD 600 from the Wall of Fame, or claim the HE400S clearly superior...but so far, it's drawing me to that conclusion."
  
 Quotes from: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/terrific-hifiman-he400s-planar-magnetic-headphones#Bf8ry3tieS1Ute7D.97


----------



## x RELIC x

I could just see this getting out of hand.....

Recommendation.... Try them all on the Liquid Carbon!


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> I could just see this getting out of hand.....
> 
> Recommendation.... Try them all on the Liquid Carbon!




Surprised we didn't start a which headphone sounds best with the LC. Lol


----------



## doctorjazz

I was just going to suggest that...


----------



## MattTCG

Fair enough, I find the 650 a wonderful combination with the LC. The Carbon let's the 650 do what it's best at...tone, resolution, balance. I can't comment on the 400s with the LC because I sold it less than a week after I bought it.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Fair enough, I find the 650 a wonderful combination with the LC. The Carbon let's the 650 do what it's best at...tone, resolution, balance. I can't comment on the 400s with the LC because I sold it less than a week after I bought it. :rolleyes:



Next year I might purchase a HD 650, for it does intrigue me. But no more headphone purchases till I find another job.


----------



## swspiers

matttcg said:


> Fair enough, I find the 650 a wonderful combination with the LC. The Carbon let's the 650 do what it's best at...tone, resolution, balance. I can't comment on the 400s with the LC because I sold it less than a week after I bought it. :rolleyes:




Matt, are you running the 650's balanced? You might have answered that, but I'm not sure...


----------



## sheldaze

I've got to say, I'm a fan of the HD650, and _not_ the HE-400S.
 However, driving my HE-400S balanced off the Liquid Carbon - I'm going to need to listen to this a little more. This is clearly the best I've ever heard my HE-400S sound.


----------



## MattTCG

swspiers said:


> Matt, are you running the 650's balanced? You might have answered that, but I'm not sure...


 
  
 Yup...gotta go balanced on the Carbon to get the best of it.


----------



## doctorjazz

Just sold my 650-always liked them, but only so much listening time, the HE-1000 gets all the indoor, over ear time. In ear is now mostly acs Encore, just back from the shop, but the cable (Linum) is single ended. Still sounds pretty nice out of the LC. I have a balanced Linum cable for it, with a Pono adaptor, (originally terminated for the A & K DAPs), thinking of getting some sort of adaptor that will let me use the acs balanced with the LC, but, there is so much buying I want to do.. But, maybe...
(Have some on ear for out of the house, but not too relevant here, and I'll make an exception to the usual OT stuff and leave it out for now  )


----------



## zaintachik

Hd 700 on lc sounds sublime to me. I think going balanced output with lc is a must se input is ok.


----------



## sheldaze

I agree a lot with what Tyll has to say - but even balanced output from Liquid Carbon cannot rescue the HE-400S. My HD650 through single-ended output from the Carbon outclassed the HE-400S (balanced). Now back to balanced, HD650 is tremendously better!
  
 Last, I agree with the people posting - there is some goodness that comes from Liquid Carbon as an amplifier with Chord Mojo as DAC. It is certainly a welcoming, more inviting sound.


----------



## jarnopp

jarnopp said:


> Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good...




The channel imbalance has worsened on more burn-in, so Alex has advised to send back to Texas for repair or replacement. Bye-bye #258...hardly knew you!


----------



## tuxbass

My package got to a FedEx Location 50 miles from here on Monday afternoon.
 And it's going to sit there for 3 effing days ... because it has a stupid delivery date of Thu. I hate this FedEx non-sense, just deliver the damn thing


----------



## Shawnb

tuxbass said:


> My package got to a FedEx Location 50 miles from here on Monday afternoon.
> And it's going to sit there for 3 effing days ... because it has a stupid delivery date of Thu. I hate this FedEx non-sense, just deliver the damn thing




At least it's moving. Mine is stuck in limbo shipping label created but nothing since. So only God know if or when I'll get mine. If I knew there was this much of an issue I wouldn't of gone with FedEx. This limbo is complete BS specially with the holidays and that delaying everything. I know it's not Cavalli's fault but can't help feeling frustrated


----------



## vince741

shawnb said:


> At least it's moving. Mine is stuck in limbo shipping label created but nothing since. So only God know if or when I'll get mine. If I knew there was this much of an issue I wouldn't of gone with FedEx. This limbo is complete BS specially with the holidays and that delaying everything. I know it's not Cavalli's fault but can't help feeling frustrated


 
 From what I've heard, every single amp remaining were taken by fedex yesterday, so it should be a matter of time before the tracking info got updated.


----------



## Shawnb

vince741 said:


> From what I've heard, every single amp remaining were taken by fedex yesterday, so it should be a matter of time before the tracking info got updated.


 
  
 I hope so. Gives me hope that maybe i can get it next week now since this week is done with.


----------



## m usicguy

So we are now in 335 pages about this amp.   So Carbon or headphones?  I have a LC on order.  I do understand balanced will be the way to go.  But?  Does this amp supersede some headphones.   Do we need to balance a LC with headphones?
  
 order 1204   serial 482.
  
 musicguy


----------



## sheldaze

m usicguy said:


> So we are now in 335 pages about this amp.   So *Carbon* or headphones?  I have a LC on order.  I do understand balanced will be the way to go.  But?  Does this amp supersede some headphones.   Do we need to balance a LC with headphones?
> 
> order 1204   serial 482.
> 
> musicguy


 
 Liquid *Carbon* first, then headphones.
  
 By any means practicable, keep the Liquid Carbon. Just note that the burn-in is best accomplished through no headphones, or balanced headphones. The amplifier sounds quite good through all the outputs, including the single-ended. It just sounds better through the balanced outputs.
  
 This is a good investment, that will grow as your headphone inventory grows, in both quality and quantity. This is truly an end-game option, but you need not have your end-game source or transducer (headphone) at the start.


----------



## chefboyarlee

vince741 said:


> From what I've heard, every single amp remaining were taken by fedex yesterday, so it should be a matter of time before the tracking info got updated.




If this is the case, doesn't fedex immediately scan each package and it enters as a change in the system? 

The waiting sucks but I feel greatful just to be getting one since I only ordered 3 weeks ago. I check the tracking at least once per hour just hoping it has changed from "label created"...


----------



## vince741

I don't think so, when I check my tracking information, I can see "The status will be updated when shipment begins to travel."
 Looks like the package has to be on the road to have an update.
  
 e/ I feel you, I was pretty excited when I saw that my label was created and a bit let down when it didn't move.
 But soon, it will be ours .


----------



## rocketron

Hi guys.Im sure the wait will be worth it. I have waited 47 years for my son. He's 3 weeks old now and the burn in is done. Gain is a little high some times? Makes up fo it in other ways. My amp is due Thursday but not holding my breath. 
Ordered xlr connectors for my Magnum v6 build so all looking good.
Merry Christmas every one.


----------



## stuart1927

Let the burn in begin!


----------



## Shawnb

m usicguy said:


> So we are now in 335 pages about this amp.   So Carbon or headphones?  I have a LC on order.  I do understand balanced will be the way to go.  But?  Does this amp supersede some headphones.   Do we need to balance a LC with headphones?
> 
> order 1204   serial 482.
> 
> musicguy




Amp first then headphones. For me the LC will just one more reason to get a pair of Ether C's.


----------



## chefboyarlee

shawnb said:


> Amp first then headphones. For me the LC will just one more reason to get a pair of Ether C's.


 

 + one million


----------



## buke9

shawnb said:


> Amp first then headphones. For me the LC will just one more reason to get a pair of Ether C's.


 
 It's a very nice pairing.


----------



## mscott58

rocketron said:


> Hi guys.Im sure the wait will be worth it. I have waited 47 years for my son. He's 3 weeks old now and the burn in is done. Gain is a little high some times? Makes up fo it in other ways. My amp is due Thursday but not holding my breath.
> Ordered xlr connectors for my Magnum v6 build so all looking good.
> Merry Christmas every one.




Congratulations!!! My son came with a BOGO sister. Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

rocketron said:


> Hi guys.Im sure the wait will be worth it. I have waited 47 years for my son. He's 3 weeks old now and the burn in is done. Gain is a little high some times? Makes up fo it in other ways. My amp is due Thursday but not holding my breath.
> Ordered xlr connectors for my Magnum v6 build so all looking good.
> Merry Christmas every one.




I'd argue the burned in part...my oldest daughter is 22 years old, think she is still burning in...


----------



## aamefford

rocketron said:


> Hi guys.Im sure the wait will be worth it. I have waited 47 years for my son. He's 3 weeks old now and the burn in is done. Gain is a little high some times? Makes up fo it in other ways. My amp is due Thursday but not holding my breath.
> Ordered xlr connectors for my Magnum v6 build so all looking good.
> Merry Christmas every one.



Congrats! I waited 46 for my daughter, though I didn't realize I was waiting till she was born. They make headphone time harder to come by. Worth every sacrifice. Headphone time becomes that much more dear and gear like the LC that much more appreciated.


----------



## Dave74

cardiiiii said:


> Go for the HE400s instead. The 650s sounded pretty average compared to them.


 

 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I'll consider them if I can find a good deal on them.  I really like my HE-500's with the Carbon, more than my Alpha Dogs, but I don't like how heavy they are for long listening sessions.  
 I'm also considering the Nighthawks, and am wondering if anyone has heard them with the Carbon?


----------



## vince741

@Dave74: did you consider a suspension strap for your HE500?
@Lohb is making some for Hifiman/Audeze/Fostex and they are highly value (and not pricey). I had one for my LCD-X and it really helped for long listening session.


----------



## Dave74

decentlevi said:


> Actually I can't say definitively whether or not burn-in has made any difference. The reason being the burn-in process is much slower than my memory retention, so by the time 5-7 days have passed I have only my audio memory to compare it with, which is by nature somewhat faulty. But I'll keep on truckin' until the 150 hrs. just in case this helps it.
> 
> That's a good point. For some low-z headphones (especially IEMs), the SE output may be more suitable electronically than balanced.


 

 Yes, I agree about the burn-in process and memory retention, especially if you listen while burning-in.  Most of my burn-in will be done listening to the Carbon which will make it even tougher to judge the differences.  
  
 I can't say for sure if the JVC IEM's I tried SE  would be better or not in balanced as I don't have a balanced cable for them.  Once I get the balanced adapter for my Angies I will give them a try with each cable.
  
 If I go with the HD650 though I will definitely pick up a balanced cable.


----------



## Cardiiiii

dave74 said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Try both with the LC in balanced out mode. My preference was only based on SE output so maybe that's why I preferred the HE400S.


----------



## buke9

cardiiiii said:


> Try both with the LC in balanced out mode. My preference was only based on SE output so maybe that's why I preferred the HE400S.


 
 I don't have the 650's but have have heard them and I prefer the 400S . I am making balanced cables for them to see if there is a advantaged there but everything sounds better with the LC.


----------



## astaff

gto88 said:


> I don't think I will get it today, since the status is changed to pending and no delivery time.
> 
> Updated, I just got it 2 minutes ago.


Glad you were rewarded yesterday and I got 434 a day early with the help of hold at store.


----------



## MattTCG

cardiiiii said:


> Try both with the LC in balanced out mode. My preference was only based on SE output so maybe that's why I preferred the HE400S.


 
  
  


buke9 said:


> I don't have the 650's but have have heard them and I prefer the 400S . I am making balanced cables for them to see if there is a advantaged there but everything sounds better with the LC.


 
  
  
  
 If you guys prefer the 400s, honestly you don't need to have the Liquid Carbon to get the best from that headphone. Nor do you need a balanced cable. 400s is amazingly efficient and will be driven well even from a smart phone or ipod.


----------



## DecentLevi

Per the conversation on possible burn-in difference - here's an idea if any of you would like to try it:
  
 When you first receive your LC amp, connect one of the headphone outputs to an audio-to-digital-converter (like a pro-quality recorder with with a line-in) to record a song or two, then after 100-150 hours of burn in, 'rinse & repeat', ensuring it's volume-matched with the first time. Next play the recording back on your computer or other, to compare any differences between pre/post burn-in, and optionally inspect the waveform visually.


----------



## buke9

matttcg said:


> If you guys prefer the 400s, honestly you don't need to have the Liquid Carbon to get the best from that headphone. Nor do you need a balanced cable. 400s is amazingly efficient and will be driven well even from a smart phone or ipod.


 
 So your saying a iPod or smart phone sounds better than the LC? For the HE-400S? Sorry I get it know. If you prefer the He-400S over the HD-650 then you should just listen to them on a iPhone or iPad as they are just too inferior for anything better.


----------



## conquerator2

dave74 said:


> Thanks I'll consider them if I can find a good deal on them.  I really like my HE-500's with the Carbon, more than my Alpha Dogs, but I don't like how heavy they are for long listening sessions.
> I'm also considering the Nighthawks, and am wondering if anyone has heard them with the Carbon?




Don't consider the Nighthawk, please. You'll thank me later


----------



## conquerator2

buke9 said:


> So your saying a iPod or smart phone sounds better than the LC? For the HE-400S? Sorry I get it know. If you prefer the He-400S over the HD-650 then you should just listen to them on a iPhone or iPad as they are just too inferior for anything better.




Nah there will be some benefits for the 400S. Not as big as with more inefficient headphones but it will sound better than from an iphone


----------



## Shini44

am i the only one here with "*Pending*" as stats? ....


  
 its there with Fedex since a week......... taking a shower or something... before they said it will be here by the end of DEC-22th.............


----------



## x RELIC x

Spoiler






shini44 said:


> am i the only one here with "[COLOR=4D148C]*Pending*[/COLOR]" as stats? ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...






1-800-GOFEDEX


----------



## GCTD

x relic x said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Shipper (Manufacturer) hasn't sent them to the carrier yet. So probably contact Cavalli Audio's Logistics (The guy that emailed you the address and contact confirmation).


----------



## Shini44

gctd said:


> The Shipper (Manufacturer) hasn't sent them to the carrier yet. So probably contact Cavalli Audio's Logistics (The guy that emailed you the address and contact confirmation).


 
 not really, fedex got it since ages
  
 " all amps have been delivered to Fed Ex "
  
 this is from Terry (Cavali Audio)


----------



## GCTD

shini44 said:


> not really, fedex got it since ages
> 
> " all amps have been delivered to Fed Ex "
> 
> this is from Terry (Cavali Audio)


----------



## m usicguy

Well i have the same label created page with Fed Ex.  From Terry at Cavalli  they have all been handed over to Fed Ex?  Sitting here in limbo.  I just want to make sure im home.  Probably wont matter i hear them drop kick my boxes all the time on my front poarch!!!  Look outside and their already driving off!!!


----------



## vince741

Same situation from me.
 I don't mind waiting for the amp but I'm a bit pissed to have payed so much for express shipping for nothing.


----------



## Shini44

vince741 said:


> Same situation from me.
> I don't mind waiting for the amp but I'm a bit pissed to have payed so much for express shipping for nothing.


 
 i feel you man, the fact that fedex had the package for a week doing nothing is ultra annoying, i mean its Fedex Express,
  
 and the real bothersome question is "When???" will it start moving........ 
  
 i really hope Fedex don't lose or damage my stuff


----------



## chefboyarlee

shini44 said:


> and the real bothersome question is "When???" will it start moving........
> 
> i really hope Fedex don't lose or damage my stuff




I'm in the same boat too with you all. WHERE IS IT???


----------



## Maconi

Mine has been the same for over a week now. "Label Created" but zero movement.


----------



## purk

Guys,

I am in the same boat! Based on my experience, "shipping label" created actually mean that the package has not been picked up by FedEx and is still with the shipper or it has not been dropped off. I hope I am wrong on this!


----------



## vince741

That indeed was the case last Friday, but all the amps are in possession of FedEx since Monday.
 This is why people are getting worried.


----------



## purk

vince741 said:


> That indeed was the case last Friday, but all the amps are in possession of FedEx since Monday.
> This is why people are getting worried.





If our amps are indeed with fedex then the "pick up" notification should already be posted in the tracking page. I personally think that the pick up has yet been made.


----------



## vince741

The info came from Cavalli Audio (through email).


----------



## rmullins08

Mine is ready for pickup at my local FedEx Kinkos.  Balanced cable arrived yesterday.  It's go time


----------



## chefboyarlee

Over my life I've received 2 fedex packages that were never scanned into the system. If they miss the first scan all remaining scans won't do anything. What are the odds the whole batch was in fact picked up by fedex and never scanned but are moving to their destinations? A stretch I know but WHERE ARE THEY!!!


----------



## yoshidino

Number 416 just landed in NYC, working from home today just to receive my precious! Hooked up to new Mojo so they can start some fire together.


----------



## Colgin

vince741 said:


> That indeed was the case last Friday, but all the amps are in possession of FedEx since Monday.
> This is why people are getting worried.


 

 I have been in touch with Cavalli about this and all the amps were to have been picked up on Monday, but FedEx tracking  is not reflecting this. Cavalli says they are trying to figure out what happened to the final amps and hope to have an answer today.  The delay is unfortunate but I am sure it will all get worked out, although at this point I suspect those of us who placed the last orders will not have until next week.


----------



## callizer

Just tried this the other day with my LCD-X. It's INCREDIBLE.
  
 Any info on the next batch of Liquid Carbon? Or are there anyone want to sell their Liquid Carbon? lol


----------



## kingdixon

chefboyarlee said:


> Over my life I've received 2 fedex packages that were never scanned into the system. If they miss the first scan all remaining scans won't do anything. What are the odds the whole batch was in fact picked up by fedex and never scanned but are moving to their destinations? A stretch I know but WHERE ARE THEY!!!


 
  
 i second this opinion,
  
 may be not with fedex, but a couple of times with other companies, the tracking never updated but the item was delivered.
  
 so fingers crossed, i think there is still some probability you might receive it as scheduled with others.
  
 but anyway, calls should be made to know what is happening ?!!


----------



## adobotj

Woohoo! Touchdown @SF! 


Now, 1 more week for the LC to reach me all the way here in the Philippines! Don't worry guys. You'll get your precious LC too. It's just a matter of time. Maybe you'd even get it first than i'll do. I'll be patiently waiting for it to arrive.


----------



## chefboyarlee

My other hunch is that the manufacturing company handling the shipping is lying to Alex who is all the way in Texas.  "Yes boss, they've shipped." While in California, the other boss says to the employees at the manufacturing company, "I've bought us another 48 hours by blaming it on Fedex--go go go, we are a week behind and they must go out NOW!!!"


----------



## x RELIC x

Guys, honestly, call FedEx. Mine changed to 'Pending' after showing activity and they were able to tell me exactly where the unit was.


----------



## mandrake50

Well my S/N 186 unit arrived at my work address last Monday. A day early according to tracking info at FedEx. Label was created December 4 and not picked up until Dec. 14. I plugged it in at work. All I had was my Fiio X5II and some Fiio EX1 IEMs to listen with. I was quite favorably impressed at 0 hours break in, still cold from being on the truck and single ended line in from the X5II and out to the IEMs. I had no problems with noise nor having enough volume control, nor channel imbalance. Not surprisingly, it sounds much better than the X5II internal amp.
  
 I brought it home and set it to playing music. Using a set of HD600 with balanced cable. I listened a bit last night after maybe 30 hours. There were maybe some very subtle differences. I then turned it off for an hour and resumed playing. If there is anything to break in on a solid stat amp, the biggest contributor is likely capacitor forming. I think I will do the same once a day to drain and recharge the caps.
  
 I will go through the process of playing for 150 hours, not because I expect much change, but just so I can say I did it for setting a baseline for discussion.
  
 So far, I am quite happy with my purchase. Looking forward to cabling up my HE 560 balanced and doing some serious listening in a few days.


----------



## Colgin

x relic x said:


> Guys, honestly, call FedEx. Mine changed to 'Pending' after showing activity and they were able to tell me exactly where the unit was.


 

 The issue is that for some of us, we don't think the amps have been delivered to FedEx. I think it says label created because, in fact, a label was created but nothing more. I could call FedEx but I suspect they will just tell me label created but item not yet delivered to them. FedEx can have issues this time of year, but in all likelihood the issue is not with FedEx but with Cavalli's fulfillment vendor.


----------



## Shini44

x relic x said:


> Guys, honestly, call FedEx. Mine changed to 'Pending' after showing activity and they were able to tell me exactly where the unit was.


 
 just called Fedex (USA) and they told me i can change the address and shipping speed through the seller since the item wasn't picked up by the driver or yet to be picked 
  
 contacted Terry from Cavali Audio to ask for the price and provided my address (i live in Dubai)
  
  
 yet Terry told me last week he isn't able to upgrade before, maybe because he though it will be picked on Monday (21th DEC) 
  
  
 i hope he will help me now and allow me to upgrade....... else i won't be happy with Cavali Audio's customer service even for a bit!!!..................


----------



## rmullins08

chefboyarlee said:


> My other hunch is that the manufacturing company handling the shipping is lying to Alex who is all the way in Texas.  "Yes boss, they've shipped." While in California, the other boss says to the employees at the manufacturing company, "I've bought us another 48 hours by blaming it on Fedex--go go go, we are a week behind and they must go out NOW!!!"


 
 I think the more likely scenario is that all of the shipping carriers are completely overwhelmed with the holiday season and things are taking longer than anticipated.


----------



## x RELIC x

colgin said:


> The issue is that for some of us, we don't think the amps have been delivered to FedEx. I think it says label created because, in fact, a label was created but nothing more. I could call FedEx but I suspect they will just tell me label created but item not yet delivered to them. FedEx can have issues this time of year, but in all likelihood the issue is not with FedEx but with Cavalli's fulfillment vendor.




Yes, I understand, but for those that are posting here about status changing from travelling to pending or other questions related to fedex it makes more sense to contact the shipper than to ask on Head Fi. :wink_face:


----------



## woodcans

I just got off the phone with Alex. He says the last 25 amps are listed as 'shipping label created' with Fedex. The manufacturer/logistics team (not Cavalli audio) claim the amps were delivered to Fedex either Friday or Monday. I also spoke to Fedex who claim they don't have the amps. Alex is quite frustrated with the situation. He says Terry from Cavalli is working with the logistics team to resolve the issue. So, all we can do is wait and cross our fingers.


----------



## defbear

FEDEX Bah! I told you so. (Now everyone can throw socks at me) Call them Call 1.800.GoFedEx 1.800.463.3339. I've posted it twice before so no dead horses please. Do yourself a favor and call.


----------



## rmullins08

Just picked up my LC, brought it to the apartment to fire up for some burn in.  I knew it was small, but still was shocked at how compact it is.  Using a Bifrost Multibit with the HE-400S with a balanced cable.  Can't wait to give it a real listen.


----------



## chefboyarlee

defbear said:


> FEDEX Bah! I told you so. (Now everyone can throw socks at me) Call them Call 1.800.GoFedEx 1.800.463.3339. I've posted it twice before so no dead horses please. Do yourself a favor and call.


 

I just called and they reiterated the same thing. Label created and that's all.


----------



## sling5s

rmullins08 said:


> Just picked up my LC, brought it to the apartment to fire up for some burn in.  I knew it was small, but still was shocked at how compact it is.  Using a Bifrost Multibit with the HE-400S with a balanced cable.  Can't wait to give it a real listen.


 

 Personally I thought it would be heavier.  My first thought was, did they forget the power supply?  I'm so used to heavy equals better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But it sounds great!


----------



## Cardiiiii

Mine arrived in Australia 2 days ago and has been sitting in the sorting facility for the last two days. Usually it goes out for delivery the next day. Too bad I'm in Sydney for Christmas or I would have driven up to the facility and picked it up myself.


----------



## Maconi

chefboyarlee said:


> defbear said:
> 
> 
> > FEDEX Bah! I told you so. (Now everyone can throw socks at me) Call them Call 1.800.GoFedEx 1.800.463.3339. I've posted it twice before so no dead horses please. Do yourself a favor and call.
> ...


 
 I've called, same story. They say it says Label Created because that's all they have so far. So either it's still sitting with Terry (Cavalli) or FedEx has it sitting in a warehouse somewhere and hasn't bothered logging it in/shipping it yet.
  
 It doesn't bother me any (I'm the patient sort) but I can imagine this must be frustrating to most of you.


----------



## vince741

My fedex info got updated to picked up (by FedEx) a couple of minutes ago!
  
 I hope this will be the same for the rest of you!
 Apparently the package was picked up ten minutes before this post.


----------



## naimless

Just to try and balance out the FedEx bashing I actually got my LC 2 days earlier than the delivery estimate and no customs fee(so far)and I didn't go for the priority shipping option just economy,although judging by all the previous posts I probably just got lucky


----------



## woodcans

To be clear, the latest shipping/delivery issue only involves the last 25 amps - per Alex. For the rest of you who have received yours or are about to, cheers.


----------



## vince741

I have one of the 25 last amp (number 490).


----------



## purk

vince741 said:


> I have one of the 25 last amp (number 490).


 
 Yours has arrived?  Mine is no where to be found yet...#479.  I know that I won't be disappointed on the sound quality because this is my second unit but I'm concern about the shipment.


----------



## vince741

Not yet but the tracking info got updated 30min ago and it's now in the possession of FedEx.
  
 "12/23/2015 - Wednesday
 3:46 pm Picked up NORTH HILLS, CA
  
 12/17/2015 - Thursday
 5:01 pm Shipment information sent to FedEx"


----------



## sahmen

"The eagle," aka, Liquid Carbon, (Invoice # 941, Serial #311) landed this afternoon, and I stayed home all day just to sign for it. I shall get to the listening part later, when I have had the time to set up the 2nd rig which this LC is going to service.
  
 I took one last look at the Fedex tracking site after the unit had been delivered, and found the following report:
  
Delivered​
_Signed for by: ABROWN_​   
I did indeed sign for my unit on the Fedex tablet, and Fedex guy scanned my LC box in order to record the delivery, right before my eyes...  Sadly, my name is not ABROWN, and does not even remotely resemble it... So what gives?  Mind you, I do have my LC correctly delivered, which is what counts for me, so I am not complaining... I am just wondering what this error might signify for some other customer





 
 
 Oh yeah :  The LC is a lot smaller, and lighter than I expected it to be, from all the pictures I have seen of it...  And yes, I have heard/read several reports regarding how small it actually appears to be "in person," and yet that did not prepare me for this....  Not that I am complaining, since I am all about the SQ, which most people find scintillating..
  
 Still, I think I now fully understand what Cavalli Audio means by "transportable," but this leads me to wonder just how much smaller the portable "Liquid Spark" might turn out to be....


----------



## woodcans

I am unfortunately still in the 'label created' status.


----------



## Shawnb

vince741 said:


> Not yet but the tracking info got updated 30min ago and it's now in the possession of FedEx.
> 
> "12/23/2015 - Wednesday
> 3:46 pm Picked up NORTH HILLS, CA
> ...


 
  
 Same for me as well. YAY!! Expected delivery by Noon tomorrow, but we'll see if that happens. Was all reserved to getting it next week, to get it now will be a nice bonus.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Mine arrived in Melbourne 2 days ago at the sorting centre which is in the next neighbourhood, it now shows it's in another state!!!! On the phone to AusPost trying to find out where exactly my package is. Been on hold for a while now, worst time of year to call a postal service!


----------



## chefboyarlee

woodcans said:


> I am unfortunately still in the 'label created' status.




Me too. I'm 484. What is your number?


----------



## Cardiiiii

So I called up Australia Post and they told me I've been given the wrong tracking number which is strange. What is Alex's email address?


----------



## Cardiiiii

Also can anyone tell me the address it was shipped out of? The California address?


----------



## MattTCG

I too am concerned with these final amps coming in. I have Purk amp and I dont want for him to ask for it back


----------



## Viper2005

#486 has arrived to Canada just in time for xmas! 
 Initial impressions, extremely good with the TH-X00!  Fed from the Yggy, it sounds very similar to my Ragnarok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Will do some burn in and try with my other phones later.
 Oh, and the casing is a massive fingerprint magnet!


----------



## Cardiiiii

viper2005 said:


> #486 has arrived to Canada just in time for xmas!
> Initial impressions, extremely good with the TH-X00!  Fed from the Yggy, it sounds very similar to my Ragnarok.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can you check the shipping box and let me know the postcode it was shipped from?


----------



## Viper2005

cardiiiii said:


> Can you check the shipping box and let me know the postcode it was shipped from?


 

 It originated from 93021 in California.
The label's from address is from Cedar Park TX 78613, but the package itself came from California according to the tracking.


----------



## Cardiiiii

viper2005 said:


> It originated from 93021 in California.
> The label's from address is from Cedar Park TX 78613, but the package itself came from California according to the tracking.


 
  
 Is the pick up address MOORPARK, CA 93021? Unless I have been given someone elses tracking number whose shipping address is in Qld, mine is going to the wrong address. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Hansotek

The origin address and return address are not the same. You can rest easy guys.


----------



## m usicguy

Serial 482   no updates with fed ex.  lable created only.  as of 24/12/15


----------



## Viper2005

cardiiiii said:


> Is the pick up address MOORPARK, CA 93021? Unless I have been given someone elses tracking number whose shipping address is in Qld, mine is going to the wrong address. Thanks for your help.


 

 Yes, it is picked up from MOORPARK, CA 93021


----------



## coastal1

Wow, nice... Not a big deal to me, but agree about the 'fingerprint magnet.' Anyone know the best way to clean it? I don't plan on using it much as a 'transportable amp,' but given that it's marketed as such there should be an easy way to remove fingerprints.




viper2005 said:


> #486 has arrived to Canada just in time for xmas!
> Initial impressions, extremely good with the TH-X00!  Fed from the Yggy, it sounds very similar to my Ragnarok. :eek:   Will do some burn in and try with my other phones later.
> Oh, and the casing is a massive fingerprint magnet!


----------



## cskippy

viper2005 said:


> #486 has arrived to Canada just in time for xmas!
> Initial impressions, extremely good with the TH-X00!  Fed from the Yggy, it sounds very similar to my Ragnarok.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you get noise with the TH-X00?  I have my Carbon hooked up to a Gumby balanced and get some hum and hiss.


----------



## XenHeadFi

cskippy said:


> Do you get noise with the TH-X00?  I have my Carbon hooked up to a Gumby balanced and get some hum and hiss.


 

 My setup is far from optimal, as you can see. LC is atop of Gumby which is all behind 2 monitors. My self-made first ever balanced cables connected to my HE560. No hiss. Nothing even on 3x gain at max volume when I selected an input without signal (optical) on the Gumby. At the same time, I have USB from a Linux computer playing into Gumby, then balanced (Monoprice Premium XLR 1.5 ft), then Mogami 2799 conductors in my cable. LC is using a Monoprice 14 AWG power cable and Gumby is using the stock cable. Both power cables are plugged into a Tripp Lite ISOBAR isolated filter bank, then straight into the wall without anything else.
  
 Is your hiss only from the Fostex or do you hear it from other headphones? Also, does the hum and hiss change volume or is constant?


----------



## GCTD

Alcohol wipes for fingerprints ladies and gents. Of course, tissue or cotton ball/pads damped in alcohol will do fine, but may leave little debris of the tissue or cotton material when rubbed against brushed aluminum, in which case, use a Swiffer Duster to brush it off.


----------



## Shawnb

I swear FedEx are the best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Tracking info shows it picked up yesterday in Cali then it makes it way to RICHMOND, BC only to then go back to Memphis for some stupid reason.
 Now my schedule delivery is blank. Damn Fedex it was so close yesterday What would they take it back to Memphis.
 Really makes a whole lot of sense to head south to memphis when it's going to Canada


----------



## Mattyhew

#464 Arrived to its home in the UK, couldn't wait 150 hours to try it out ^^
  

  
 I seem to remember mention of a set of rubber feet? Where these included?


----------



## mscott58

shawnb said:


> I swear FedEx are the best
> 
> Tracking info shows it picked up yesterday in Cali then it makes it way to RICHMOND, BC only to then go back to Memphis for some stupid reason.
> Now my schedule delivery is blank. Damn Fedex it was so close yesterday What would they take it back to Memphis.
> Really makes a whole lot of sense to head south to memphis when it's going to Canada




Guessing it never made it to BC yet and that the update line on the FedEx site is a data exchange getting ready for import, or is just an errant data point. I've seen this coming from Canada into the US as well. Best way to tell us if the timing makes sense. Have seen it where it shows one update and then the next an hour later is from a location a thousand miles away.


----------



## sheldaze

mattyhew said:


> #464 Arrived to its home in the UK, couldn't wait 150 hours to try it out ^^
> 
> I seem to remember mention of a set of rubber feet? Where these included?


 
 Congratulations!
  
 No feet though - people have been posting their options to add feet.


----------



## mscott58

mattyhew said:


> #464 Arrived to its home in the UK, couldn't wait 150 hours to try it out ^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No feet, the LC has two rails on the bottom. Can add your own if wanted. Cheers


----------



## Mattyhew

sheldaze said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> No feet though - people have been posting their options to add feet.


 
  
 Gotcha, I had 5 left in a set like these, seem to do the job fine, gives it just enough clearance that its not scratching on my DAC.


----------



## Colgin

My LC is finally en route as of last night. Hopefully it will arrive by the time I get back from vacation. Happy holidays all.


----------



## Shawnb

mscott58 said:


> Guessing it never made it to BC yet and that the update line on the FedEx site is a data exchange getting ready for import, or is just an errant data point. I've seen this coming from Canada into the US as well. Best way to tell us if the timing makes sense. Have seen it where it shows one update and then the next an hour later is from a location a thousand miles away.


 
  
 It shows it first arriving in Richmond BC, Shows Clearance delay - import. Seems a custom issue or something, so it then goes to Memphis for some reason then today it makes it back to Richmond, BC and now shows International release Shipment - Import so I guess it has the right papers or something now. Though now it shows a delivery date of the 29th  
  

  
 Date/Time
Activity Location  
 12/24/2015 - Thursday
8:10 amInternational shipment release - Import RICHMOND, BC  8:07 amIn transit RICHMOND, BC  Package available for clearance
7:18 amAt destination sort facility VANCOUVER, BC  5:19 amIn transit MEMPHIS, TN  4:48 amDeparted FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN  1:20 amIn transit MEMPHIS, TN  12:27 amArrived at FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN    
 12/23/2015 - Wednesday
7:36 pmClearance delay - Import RICHMOND, BC  3:46 pmPicked up NORTH HILLS, CA    
 12/17/2015 - Thursday
5:04 pm Shipment information sent to FedEx
  
  
 Going by this the timing seems right. Just more delays


----------



## x RELIC x

This is why I say to call them. The information was sent to Richmond first, not the unit. I had the exact same route and the same info. I called FedEx and got some clarification.


----------



## Shini44

i hope fedex won't lose our amps, since they were sitting there for a week..... 
  
  
 doesn't make sense, i seriously hope its not lost..................  i am too pissed off knowing that i am stuck like this, 
  
  
 lost? waiting? a lot of packages to be handled? 
  
  
 now i hate the "*Pending*" word like a lot.......


----------



## Shawnb

x relic x said:


> This is why I say to call them. The information was sent to Richmond first, not the unit. I had the exact same route and the same info. I called FedEx and got some clarification.


 
  
 No worries it shows it out on delivery now. It's always a bit confusing when their updates aren't that clear. 
  
 Should be here later today  Now I just can't leave till it gets here
  
 As it was typing that i hear a knock on the door and its here!!!!


----------



## mandrake50

A non-shipping comment...
 I am sure glad mine finally showed up Monday, now I can graduate to listening instead of obsessing over delivery. The comment, no noise at all, max volume 3X gain with numerous headphones (Balanced He 560, 400i, Hd600 and 650, single ended THxx) and several IEMs. Just dead silence. Balanced from Pulse X Infinity. 1 foot cables.
 Still letting it play, but have spent a few half hour sessions. I like what I am hearing. After the Holiday festivities are behind me, I should have some time to give it a good listen.


----------



## Shini44

i hope i wake up tomorrow to find my order shipped or anything other than pending....
  
 i hope fedex didn't lose the last 25 amps :<


----------



## purk

shini44 said:


> i hope i wake up tomorrow to find my order shipped or anything other than pending....
> 
> i hope fedex didn't lose the last 25 amps :<


 
 You and me both man!  Still showing "pending".


----------



## Jozurr

shini44 said:


> i hope i wake up tomorrow to find my order shipped or anything other than pending....
> 
> i hope fedex didn't lose the last 25 amps :<


 
  
 Mine is in transit! SN # 494.


----------



## Shini44

jozurr said:


> Mine is in transit! SN # 494.


 
 which mean mine will start moving soon (or so do i hope) since both of us got a similar address/destination
  
 mine is SN# 499, the last LC on earth XD 
  
 how long till it reach the destination man? since its ground level.


----------



## swspiers

shini44 said:


> jozurr said:
> 
> 
> > Mine is in transit! SN # 494.
> ...




I swear. If we see this one for sale, you will be INFAMOUS

(I hope you get it soon. It's seriously worth the wait!)


----------



## cskippy

Wouldn't serial #500 be the last one?  Listening to Gumby balanced to Carbon balanced HE-6, 3x gain about 10 o'clock.  Seriously good paring!  There isn't as much impact as the best speaker amps but it's certainly no slouch.  The harsh highs are smooth but still nicely extended with the Carbon.  There isn't as much depth as the Project Ember but the layering is better as well as imaging.


----------



## Evshrug

Cskippy,
Engineers like to start serial # runs at 000, which Cavalli received as a reference unit. So, #499 seems accurate!
I MIGHT have raised my last month's electric bill $30 by burning in my LC nonstop (plus I left my Theta R2R DAC on too), but MEH! Really love this amp, seems to tighten up note decay and even my lowly AKG K612 has a newfound quickness/snap/clarity while also smoothly powering extension to the sub-lows and the super-highs. I'm an odd bird who usually uses this amp while gaming with headphone surround processing, but the amp's impressive imaging and separation (product of that quickness I mentioned earlier) have really made an obvious elevation in the realism of the surround effect and my personal enjoyment ^_^

It was worth the 8 month wait!


----------



## chowmein83

evshrug said:


> I'm an odd bird who usually uses this amp while gaming with headphone surround processing, but the amp's impressive imaging and separation (product of that quickness I mentioned earlier) have really made an obvious elevation in the realism of the surround effect and my personal enjoyment ^_^


 
  
 You're not the only one who has used the LC for gaming with headphone surround. I've done the same too, and I also found it excellent for exactly the same reasons as you did.


----------



## XenHeadFi

Add another person who games with SBX Studio Pro -> Gumby (balanced) -> Liquid Carbon -> Balanced HE560.


----------



## Shini44

cskippy said:


> Wouldn't serial #500 be the last one?


 
  
 no, cause they start with #000, for some odd reason or two


----------



## conquerator2

Yay! Creative X7 - Thdta DS Pro Basic II - Audio-gd SA31SE - HE1000.
 Absolutely looking forward to the LC and the SA31 shootout


----------



## Chrome Robot

Maybe I am a dreamer, but I hesitated too long and missed out on the LC. So if any one has need to sell PM me.


----------



## purk

Hey guys...any shipping movement on the last 25 orders?  Mine #479 is still show pending after nearly 10 days.


----------



## Shini44

purk said:


> Hey guys...any shipping movement on the last 25 orders?  Mine #479 is still show pending after nearly 10 days.


 
  
  
 maybe after the holy days ?? not sure when will this be over   or maybe next Monday or something.


----------



## chefboyarlee

#484 and still label created. Better ship Monday or Tuesday at the latest. They must be still building them because how hard is it to ship 25 boxes.


----------



## pekingduck

I received mine on the 24th but  it was shipped by USPS Priority Express Mail International, not Fedex..


----------



## Shawnb

#492 Here Also got mine on the 24th, On day 2 of the burn in.


----------



## chefboyarlee

shawnb said:


> #492 Here Also got mine on the 24th, On day 2 of the burn in.




Was it shipped fedex?


----------



## buke9

I ordered mine April 18th and received last Friday so I feel your pain. I heard the prototype twice so I knew what I was getting. Sitting on my comfy couch and my gear and my phones and the LC it's worth the wait. I know it is hard to wait.


----------



## purk

pekingduck said:


> I received mine on the 24th but  it was shipped by USPS Priority Express Mail International, not Fedex..


 
  


shawnb said:


> #492 Here Also got mine on the 24th, On day 2 of the burn in.


 
  
 Serial number please?  I'm sure that you guys paid extra for your international shipping but mine is still staying at "pending" and "label created" stage since 12/17/15.  Honest, I don't think I'll get it after the new year, then again...I'll continue to wait....and I hope that they will have some sort of answers/excuses for me next week.


----------



## Shawnb

purk said:


> Serial number please?  I'm sure that you guys paid extra for your international shipping but mine is still staying at "pending" and "label created" stage since 12/17/15.  Honest, I don't think I'll get it after the new year, then again...I'll continue to wait....and I hope that they will have some sort of answers/excuses for me next week.


 
  
 Yeah mine was Fedex  International Priority so basicly next day for me. Not sure why yours is still showing Label created and then nothing.
 I'd call Fedex or Cavalli by now. You're domestic yours should of shipped before mine did, not even factoring my serial is later then yours.
 #492 and international, Canada but still, should of been no way I got mine first


----------



## pekingduck

Sorry away from home at this moment so I have no idea about the serial # (order placed Dec 6 and shipped Dec 18).
  
 Quote:


purk said:


> Serial number please?  I'm sure that you guys paid extra for your international shipping but mine is still staying at "pending" and "label created" stage since 12/17/15.  Honest, I don't think I'll get it after the new year, then again...I'll continue to wait....and I hope that they will have some sort of answers/excuses for me next week.


----------



## purk

shawnb said:


> Yeah mine was Fedex  International Priority so basicly next day for me. Not sure why yours is still showing Label created and then nothing.
> I'd call Fedex or Cavalli by now. You're domestic yours should of shipped before mine did, not even factoring my serial is later then yours.
> #492 and international, Canada but still, should of been no way I got mine first


 
 I think Cavalli fulfilled international orders first before the domestic units.  This was the case for the earlier units as well.  I contacted Terry last week and she said my Carbon was in the possession of FedEX already on the 16th.  I will give FedEX until this coming Monday and will give them a call if no further updated is given.  I personally think that it hasn't been shipped out yet.


----------



## buke9

purk said:


> I think Cavalli fulfilled international orders first before the domestic units.  This was the case for the earlier units as well.  I contacted Terry last week and she said my Carbon was in the possession of FedEX already on the 16th.  I will give FedEX until this coming Monday and will give them a call if no further updated is given.  I personally think that it hasn't been shipped out yet.


 
 I got shipping notice on the 8th but it didn't get to me till the 18th. It was only on the road for three days. It said that is was going to be delivered the 12th but when that passed it said pending they didn't get it till the 15th. It is not Fedex it is not in there hands yet. If Fedex has it it will give you a location of where it is.


----------



## purk

buke9 said:


> I got shipping notice on the 8th but it didn't get to me till the 18th. It was only on the road for three days. It said that is was going to be delivered the 12th but when that passed it said pending they didn't get it till the 15th. It is not Fedex it is not in there hands yet. If Fedex has it it will give you a location of where it is.


 
 That has been my experience as well.  Please note that this is my 2nd unit and I sold my first unit to MaTTCG.  It is a great buy and you get a really good amplifier.  A mini GSX-MKII in a way, but I doubt that I'll get the Carbon before the new year.  I can live with that given that I didn't place my order until early December.  However, I wish they didn't play the tracking number trick on some of us.  
  
 This is what I have to deal with the past 10 days.  Initially I got the delivery scheduled on the 22th.
  
 Anticipated ship date:

   


Thu 12/17/2015





       Help





  
 Date/Time
Activity Location  
 12/16/2015 - Wednesday
9:45 pmShipment information sent to FedEx


----------



## WNBC

Serial # 489
  
 Labeled created 12/17
 Shipped 12/23
 Received 12/24 (I sprung for FedEx Next Day)
  
 Happy holidays and good luck with deliveries, I've had my own share of stories with Xmas orders.


----------



## bearFNF

Heard.in the news that FedEx is having issues and apologized for the ddlays. They said they underestimated the volume of shipments for this season and are doing the best they can to catch up. 

Really?? Sounds like a bean counter needs a boot to the @$$...


----------



## MattTCG

bearfnf said:


> Heard.in the news that FedEx is having issues and apologized for the ddlays. They said they underestimated the volume of shipments for this season and are doing the best they can to catch up.
> 
> Really?? Sounds like a bean counter needs a boot to the @$$...


 
  
 I had three packages come in from Fedex over the past month. Each time I got online and redirected the package to the local fedex store because they had to be signed for and I knew that I wouldn't be home. Fedex failed to redirect all three times. Twice they left the package on the porch and once I got the door tag. One of the packages left on the porch was an sr-007! 
  
 I called to find out why they were delivering to my home when I redirected the packages. The fedex rep said that they had hired lot's of temp drivers during the holiday season and that some of these temp drivers were not as skilled as their regular drivers. I wanted to ask her if they could read, but felt that comment might be in bad taste. 
  
 My only response is to not use their service anymore.


----------



## WNBC

Congratulations to Cavalli.  For me, probably the last stop for a while in regards to amps.  I am happy with this amp right out of the box with my modded KAM HP1 plugged into it.  I will eventually add an Ether, but no rush.  I've never owned a Cavalli amp, but this LC is giving me a flavor of what these guys can do and the higher end amps must be killer.  I'm glad I jumped in at the end as the last units were being sold.  I needed an amp and somehow I stumbled upon this thread.  This rest will be listening history.
  
 EDIT:  Crap, just read about the HD800S.  Ok, Ether + HD800 + LC = done (no time frame on being done though)


----------



## Shini44

today is Monday, i hope they ship my amp today :<  
  
 the vacation are over so i hope its not as crazy etc


----------



## m usicguy

#482  Im still in limbo also.


----------



## mscott58

matttcg said:


> I had three packages come in from Fedex over the past month. Each time I got online and redirected the package to the local fedex store because they had to be signed for and I knew that I wouldn't be home. Fedex failed to redirect all three times. Twice they left the package on the porch and once I got the door tag. One of the packages left on the porch was an sr-007!
> 
> I called to find out why they were delivering to my home when I redirected the packages. The fedex rep said that they had hired lot's of temp drivers during the holiday season and that some of these temp drivers were not as skilled as their regular drivers. I wanted to ask her if they could read, but felt that comment might be in bad taste.
> 
> My only response is to not use their service anymore.


 
 Wonder if any of them can be trusted anymore! Here's some good (crazy) videos. Enjoy!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlUJmT2h3-4


----------



## coastal1

I don't know if my favorite/least favorite segment is the runaway USPS truck @2:50 or the guy punting a package onto the roof @4:09





mscott58 said:


> Wonder if any of them can be trusted anymore! Here's some good (crazy) videos. Enjoy!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlUJmT2h3-4


----------



## mscott58

coastal1 said:


> I don't know if my favorite/least favorite segment is the runaway USPS truck @2:50 or the guy punting a package onto the roof @4:09




Yep, or throwing the flat screen over the fence. 

With the runaway truck I was afraid the guy was going to get hit as he was laying on the ground. Not smart of him to try to jump into the truck.


----------



## Shini44

hey i called fedex (local) and fedex (USA) ,  Cavali Audio didn't hand my amp to begin with....... and Terry was for a whole week telling me he was contacting fedex but no reply....
  
  
 then fedex confirmed to me that the package isn't there to begin with....
  
  
 i asked Terry about it and he said "_* I think that the manufacturer might still have the amps*_"
  
  
  
  
 seriously....... like seriously........... i don't care about the delay right now, i care about honesty and accurate information......... if a staff member for a whole week telling me he is contacting fedex, and don't know if the amps are not there to begin with....  then tell me oh.. maybe the amps are not there!!!  
  
 then for the whole week what was fedex telling him?  sound too fishy for me right now
  
  
 if there was a dely he should know and he should tell me.... why dodging the truth and making me call fedex for a week... why...
  
  
  
 now i sent him a message asking for the shipping speed and address to be changed to Dubai (since Fedex don't have the amp), i think they should respond and try to help
  
 but i assume they gonna keep dodging and won't allow me to change the speed or shipping address even that the amp is with cavali audio
  
  
 Serial #499 (last 25 amps) 
  
  

  

  

  
  
  
 i can't even use my new cables...... which took 18 weeks to be made....


----------



## AladdinSane

#496 has landed in Oregon. About the same width as the M2Us but twice as long and a nudge taller. Now which balanced DAC???


----------



## Shini44

aladdinsane said:


> #496 has landed in Oregon. About the same width as the M2Us but twice as long and a nudge taller. Now which balanced DAC???


 
  
 when was yours shipped?


----------



## AladdinSane

12/18 says the packing slip. Need someone to test your cables??


----------



## Shini44

aladdinsane said:


> 12/18 says the packing slip. Need someone to test your cables??


 
 lol  you can't since i am located in Dubai  
  
 regardless will use an XLR adapter (which soon i will borrow from a friend) so i be able to connect these with the Hugo TT once i receive it tomorrow
  
  
 was really hoping to pair the Hugo TT and the LC and enjoy one of the best setups on my CIEMs and LCD2 Fazor 
  
  
 i hope i get my LC soon :<


----------



## AladdinSane

Okay well there's that Dubai thing. You're closing in on my dream setup with the TT and LC. Must work harder (but I want to go home and play with my LC).


----------



## hifi808

jarnopp said:


> The channel imbalance has worsened on more burn-in, so Alex has advised to send back to Texas for repair or replacement. Bye-bye #258...hardly knew you!


 
 Did you ever get this issue resolved?  My LC, with about 70-80 hours burn-in, has started to do the same thing (along with static in the right channel), but only on the balanced output. SE output is fine.
  
 I've just emailed Cavalli, but curious as to how your problem was addressed.  Thanks.


----------



## DeLuX

shini44 said:


> hey i called fedex (local) and fedex (USA) ,  Cavali Audio didn't hand my amp to begin with....... and Terry was for a whole week telling me he was contacting fedex but no reply....
> 
> 
> then fedex confirmed to me that the package isn't there to begin with....
> ...




Oh man that's really bad customer service on Cavallis part! I feel for you! I'm a bit surprised no one has jumped in to defend Cavalli yet as this seems to be the norm. I ordered my amp in July and received it today so all good on my end iguess, though this thread reads like Cavalli did me a favor by building the amp and that I should just be grateful to be in the precens of greatness... Anyhow hope it all works out for you and that you get to put those nice looking cables to good use!


----------



## jarnopp

hifi808 said:


> Did you ever get this issue resolved?  My LC, with about 70-80 hours burn-in, has started to do the same thing (along with static in the right channel), but only on the balanced output. SE output is fine.
> 
> I've just emailed Cavalli, but curious as to how your problem was addressed.  Thanks.




That sucks. That is what I heard also. I sent the amp back to Alex, which he tested and said it measured within tolerance. He did hear some imbalance low in the pot, but again, not totally out of the expected (though it was to me...maybe the amp was much warmer?). 

He is swapping the board for me (which looks like basically everything but the box), and I should have it within the week. Then, another gazillion hours burn-in!


----------



## XenHeadFi

hifi808 said:


> Did you ever get this issue resolved?  My LC, with about 70-80 hours burn-in, has started to do the same thing (along with static in the right channel), but only on the balanced output. SE output is fine.
> 
> I've just emailed Cavalli, but curious as to how your problem was addressed.  Thanks.


 
  
 I just sent mine back to Cavalli today for repairs. I contacted Cavalli though their support address, and Dr. Cavalli answered the email. After a couple of back and forth emails for more information, he told me to send it back, and he'll fix it.
  
 Headphones: Balanced HE560s. Never tried SE outputs on the Carbon.
  
 Mine did a similar thing after the full burn-in period. Up to then, the amp was excellent and the background was silent at ear splitting levels (past 1 oclock at 1x and 12 oclock at 3x). There was some noise but even at max volume, it was very low. At the time of the problem, I was trying to find the point at 1x that was about the same loudness as 3x when there was a sudden change in the channel balance at zero volume that affected both inputs at 1x and 3x gain. I also had hiss in only the right channel but only under balanced INPUT and only at 3x gain. SE input was noiseless on 1x and 3x gain up to ear splitting levels. Balanced input was noiseless at 1x gain up to ear splitting levels.
  
 So I only had unusual hiss on the right channel at 3x gain with balanced input selected. The unusual hiss DECREASED as the volume was increased...
  
 From what I heard, the SE (RCA) and Balanced inputs are remarkably close to my ears. I expected night and day and that was not the case. I did not have enough time to really compare them, though.
  
 Now I'm back to my AV receiver and something is missing...


----------



## jarnopp

xenheadfi said:


> I just sent mine back to Cavalli today for repairs. I contacted Cavalli though their support address, and Dr. Cavalli answered the email. After a couple of back and forth emails for more information, he told me to send it back, and he'll fix it.
> 
> Headphones: Balanced HE560s. Never tried SE outputs on the Carbon.
> 
> ...




I am serial #258. How about you two folks? Maybe it's random or limited to a small batch (I hope)?


----------



## hifi808

jarnopp said:


> I am serial #258. How about you two folks? Maybe it's random or limited to a small batch (I hope)?


 
  
 Probably random, as mine is in the 400s.
  
 Returning my LC tomorrow for repairs.  From the listening I was able to do, it certainly sounded great, so I hope it gets sorted out satisfactorily for everyone.


----------



## Maconi

Serial # 487, still sitting on "Label Created".
  
 Do I really have to call Cavalli/FedEx to harass them or will this thing get shipped eventually? It's been two weeks since we first got the shipping notice and there's been zero communication/movement since then.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Maybe these guys have shut down for Christmas and will only open up after new years?


----------



## purk

maconi said:


> Serial # 487, still sitting on "Label Created".
> 
> Do I really have to call Cavalli/FedEx to harass them or will this thing get shipped eventually? It's been two weeks since we first got the shipping notice and there's been zero communication/movement since then.


 
 I talked to Terry (Cavalli's logistic person) and she said that the fulfillment center may not have shipped all the amp out.  They continued to not providing her with any update.  I'm in the same boat as you with #479 and I doubt that we can do anything but wait.  I personally am not happy but let's just hope that the amp will get here eventually safe and sound.  If we are lucky, we may get the amp by the end of next week with all the bad weather going on in the Midwest.


----------



## Maconi

I'm usually pretty patient. I'm just getting antsy because my Yggdrasil/Ragnarok also haven't shipped in 2 weeks so it's a double-whammy lol.


----------



## ambrose1985

can i check if anyone has any idea on how does Cavalli Audio deal with warranty shipping ? 
  
 Understand that the owner of the product will have to ship the product to Cavali Audio, but what about the cost of shipping it back to the owner ? 
  
 Does Cavali Audio cover it or does the owner cover it ?


----------



## Uncle E1

nice pairing ...
  
 Liquid Carbon > WyWires Red > Ether


----------



## WNBC

Out of curiosity did you ship FedEx overnight?  As #489, I got mine on the 24th.  Since FedEx Ground and Home Delivery are separate from the overnight services I wonder if I just got lucky going with the fastest delivery option.  Otherwise, mine was randomly picked out of the pile and put on the truck.  I received a notice on the 23rd that package was going to be delivered on the 24th.  Label created 6 days earlier. 
  
 Quote:


purk said:


> I talked to Terry (Cavalli's logistic person) and she said that the fulfillment center may not have shipped all the amp out.  They continued to not providing her with any update.  I'm in the same boat as you with #479 and I doubt that we can do anything but wait.  I personally am not happy but let's just hope that the amp will get here eventually safe and sound.  If we are lucky, we may get the amp by the end of next week with all the bad weather going on in the Midwest.


----------



## Jozurr

shini44 said:


> hey i called fedex (local) and fedex (USA) ,  Cavali Audio didn't hand my amp to begin with....... and Terry was for a whole week telling me he was contacting fedex but no reply....
> 
> 
> then fedex confirmed to me that the package isn't there to begin with....
> ...


 
  
 What's surprising is that I am SN 494 and my amp was picked up on 23 December and shows delivery to be scheduled on 31 December and we chose the same shipping option. It's about 280 miles away on the map at the moment, so maybe the amp will reach SnS NY today!


----------



## bloodydoorknob

I just received my LC from fedex today, shipped on 12/18.  Single ended output works great, but I'm not getting anything via balanced out.  I'm using a Charlston balanced cable with my Ethers.  The button on the far right is an input selector, right?  So if my source is connected via rca's then the single ended mode should be selected for balanced out, correct?


----------



## Cardiiiii

bloodydoorknob said:


> I just received my LC from fedex today, shipped on 12/18.  Single ended output works great, but I'm not getting anything via balanced out.  I'm using a Charlston balanced cable with my Ethers.  The button on the far right is an input selector, right?  So if my source is connected via rca's then the single ended mode should be selected for balanced out, correct?


 
 From what I understand both outputs should work at the same time, correct me if I'm wrong. So if your input is via RCA, the extreme right LED should be red.


----------



## sheldaze

bloodydoorknob said:


> I just received my LC from FedEx today, shipped on 12/18.  Single ended output works great, but I'm not getting anything via balanced out.  I'm using a Charlston balanced cable with my Ethers.  The button on the far right is an input selector, right?  So if my source is connected via rca's then the single ended mode should be selected for balanced out, correct?


 
_Correct_ - all outputs, both balanced and single-ended, are active at all times.
  
 Have you used these cables in another balanced amplifier?
  
 EDIT: I'm actually a little confused by what you stated, but all outputs are active at all times.


----------



## bloodydoorknob

That's what I thought.  But I'm still not getting any sound via the balanced xlr output.  I'm trying to troubleshoot to see if my cable (recent purchase) is the problem, but unfortunately I got no other balanced cables on hand for my ethers.


----------



## sheldaze

Unfortunately, this will be the first balanced headphone for many people. I actually bought (and sold) a Schiit Mjolnir to validate all my cables were working. The dual 3-pin XLR and single 4-pin XLR cables for my HD650 had never been tested. I don't know any other way to test other than to plug into a balanced amplifier 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Can you use an amplifier from someone else to test your cables?


----------



## bloodydoorknob

Yes, looks like I'll have to take the cables and test it out with other equipment at a local shop.  I used to have an Oppo HA-1, but sold it recently.  Hopefully it's not the amp.


----------



## Cardiiiii

bloodydoorknob said:


> Yes, looks like I'll have to take the cables and test it out with other equipment at a local shop.  I used to have an Oppo HA-1, but sold it recently.  Hopefully it's not the amp.


 
  
 Hmmm, that sucks, I'm sure you've checked that all the leads are in properly both on headphone and xlr on the LC?


----------



## Mr Rick

bloodydoorknob said:


> Yes, looks like I'll have to take the cables and test it out with other equipment at a local shop.  I used to have an Oppo HA-1, but sold it recently.  Hopefully it's not the amp.


 
 Cables are easy to check, if you have an ohmmeter.


----------



## bloodydoorknob

mr rick said:


> Cables are easy to check, if you have an ohmmeter.


 
 something like this?  http://www.microcenter.com/product/237694/Mini_3_1-2_Digit_19_Range_Digital_Multimeter


----------



## Mr Rick

bloodydoorknob said:


> something like this?  http://www.microcenter.com/product/237694/Mini_3_1-2_Digit_19_Range_Digital_Multimeter


 
 That will do the job.


----------



## bloodydoorknob

Thanks, I'll do that.  I assume one probe to the metal contact on the xlr connector and the other probe onto the right or left connector to the headphones?


----------



## Mr Rick

bloodydoorknob said:


> Thanks, I'll do that.  I assume one probe to the metal contact on the xlr connector and the other probe onto the right or left connector to the headphones?


 
 Exactly.


----------



## buke9

If you are looking at the 4 pin xlr connector with the pins up top the bottom right is l + then - l, r + and r-.


----------



## buke9

bloodydoorknob said:


> something like this?  http://www.microcenter.com/product/237694/Mini_3_1-2_Digit_19_Range_Digital_Multimeter


 
 Do you have a multimeter ?


----------



## bloodydoorknob

Gonna borrow one from a friend.  Picking it up tomorrow.  Thanks for all the help guys.


----------



## buke9

bloodydoorknob said:


> Gonna borrow one from a friend.  Picking it up tomorrow.  Thanks for all the help guys.


 
 If you have a working flashlight and a couple pieces of wire you could use that also. Just saying ; )


----------



## bearFNF

Heh nice, home made continuity tester.


----------



## buke9

bearfnf said:


> Heh nice, home made continuity tester.


 
 It works in a pinch.


----------



## bloodydoorknob

I just used some solder wire and tested it using a flashlight.  I get a steady light with the flashlight.  That means cable should be working?


----------



## XenHeadFi

bloodydoorknob said:


> I just used some solder wire and tested it using a flashlight.  I get a steady light with the flashlight.  That means cable should be working?


 
  
 Make sure there is no short for each channel. Then double check to see if it is actually wired correctly as the picture posted by Mr. Rick.


----------



## buke9

bloodydoorknob said:


> I just used some solder wire and tested it using a flashlight.  I get a steady light with the flashlight.  That means cable should be working?


 
 I would think so .It might be the amp.


----------



## buke9

Wow you used the flashlight cool.


----------



## purk

Finally...#479 was picked up earlier today and it is now scheduled for a delivery attempt on the 6th of January...19 days after the shipping label was made.  I maybe the last person to receive this amp.


----------



## Maconi

purk said:


> Finally...#479 was picked up earlier today and it is now scheduled for a delivery attempt on the 6th of January...19 days after the shipping label was made.  *I maybe the last person to receive this amp.*


 
 #487 still "Pending" aka "Label Created". So I wouldn't count on it lol.


----------



## buke9

maconi said:


> #487 still "Pending" aka "Label Created". So I wouldn't count on it lol.


 
 Really sad @runeight hasn't commented on this.


----------



## stuart1927

I must admit, I'd be pissed. Just take consolation that the amp will be worth the strife!


----------



## buke9

stuart1927 said:


> I must admit, I'd be pissed. Just take consolation that the amp will be worth the strife!


 
 Those that are still waiting should be pissed. Not blaming Cavalli but there is blame there.


----------



## Cardiiiii

If only the manufacturer was on Head-fi the last 25 can berate him/her. At the end of the day things didn't go according to plan. I'm sure it will be much improved for the portable amp.


----------



## m usicguy

oooh  
 New game here!!!  Who gets their amp last?  I'm in.   #482 still waiting to get picked up by Fed EX!!!!


----------



## bearFNF

I'm also getting concerned about the issues that are coming out as time gets put on these.


----------



## purk

Well....if anything they will need to sort out the shipping process much better. Given the volume of the sales, priority mail should be used as shipping courier as it will only take no more than 3 days. Shipping cost wise, it is a washed between fedex ground and priority mail for something this light. No tracking info should be sent to the customer unless the package is picked up by the shipping couriers. I hope there are some movement on other packages soon.


----------



## buke9

I still don't understand why Cavalli isn't following up more on this. It is certain that there are amps that haven't shipped yet. My amp took 10 days from label created till it shipped. When I said that I hadn't received my amp I was told by another user that he had his and it sounded like candy.I won't be so crass . You need answers .


----------



## mscott58

buke9 said:


> I still don't understand why Cavalli isn't following up more on this. It is certain that there are amps that haven't shipped yet. My amp took 10 days from label created till it shipped. When I said that I hadn't received my amp I was told by another user that he had his and it sounded like candy.I won't be so crass . You need answers .


 
 I'm pretty sure Alex is doing everything he can on this and is losing a lot of sleep in Texas, it's that he's at the whims of the manufacturer out in California. Alex takes this stuff really personally, and if he had anything productive to say I'm sure he'd chime in and I'm pretty darned sure he's reading all of this. He could try to make promises and such, but then if he doesn't have complete control of the CA people he'd just be leading to people having even more things to be mad about. I know it's been said 100 times already, but the amps are great, you will get it soon, and then all of this will (hopefully) be forgotten (except of by Alex who will carry the scars for a long time. Cheers and Happy New Year


----------



## buke9

mscott58 said:


> I'm pretty sure Alex is doing everything he can on this and is losing a lot of sleep in Texas, it's that he's at the whims of the manufacturer out in California. Alex takes this stuff really personally, and if he had anything productive to say I'm sure he'd chime in and I'm pretty darned sure he's reading all of this. He could try to make promises and such, but then if he doesn't have complete control of the CA people he'd just be leading to people having even more things to be mad about. I know it's been said 100 times already, but the amps are great, you will get it soon, and then all of this will (hopefully) be forgotten (except of by Alex who will carry the scars for a long time. Cheers and Happy New Year


 
 He told you this?


----------



## purk

mscott58 said:


> I'm pretty sure Alex is doing everything he can on this and is losing a lot of sleep in Texas, it's that he's at the whims of the manufacturer out in California. Alex takes this stuff really personally, and if he had anything productive to say I'm sure he'd chime in and I'm pretty darned sure he's reading all of this. He could try to make promises and such, but then if he doesn't have complete control of the CA people he'd just be leading to people having even more things to be mad about. I know it's been said 100 times already, but the amps are great, you will get it soon, and then all of this will (hopefully) be forgotten (except of by Alex who will carry the scars for a long time. Cheers and Happy New Year




Trust me I know that i will love the amp but Cavalli Audio can make it up to their customers by simply upgrade to a 2-day shipping. They can blame the shipping company in CA all they want but at the end of the day it is still a Cavalli product and they are still responsible for everything. I went through these types of shipping problems and excuses before and the company in question simply upgraded the shipping from ground to priority delivery to make it up to their customers. It is simple as that.


----------



## mscott58

buke9 said:


> He told you this?






Nope, but I know him and I also know a bit about how the LC project has been going (and lots of this has been already shared earlier in the LC threads). Cheers


----------



## mscott58

purk said:


> Trust me I know that i will love the amp but Cavalli Audio can make it up to their customers by simply upgrade to a 2-day shipping. They can blame the shipping company in CA all they want but at the end of the day it is still a Cavalli product and they are still responsible for everything. I went through these types of shipping problems and excuses before and the company in question simply upgraded the shipping from ground to priority delivery to make it up to their customers. It is simple as that.


 
 I hear you, and yes it's all Cavalli's responsibility, and the 2-day upgrade would indeed be a great answer, but alas would appear to require coordination between Alex in TX and the contract manufacturer in CA, which seems to be a major part of the issues you're seeing today.


----------



## purk

mscott58 said:


> I hear you, and yes it's all Cavalli's responsibility, and the 2-day upgrade would indeed be a great answer, but alas would appear to require coordination between Alex in TX and the contract manufacturer in CA, which seems to be a major part of the issues you're seeing today.




It is all good because I know that I will be happy with the product. I am just hoping that the unit will arrive properly working now. You are right about the coordination issue here which then again falls under Cavalli.


----------



## Jozurr

purk said:


> Trust me I know that i will love the amp but Cavalli Audio can make it up to their customers by simply upgrade to a 2-day shipping. They can blame the shipping company in CA all they want but at the end of the day it is still a Cavalli product and they are still responsible for everything. I went through these types of shipping problems and excuses before and the company in question simply upgraded the shipping from ground to priority delivery to make it up to their customers. It is simple as that.


 
  
 Yes because it is extremely difficult to fly between cities and coordinate with the manufacturer, upgrade shipping and post regular updates here. I'm sure there would be/should have been penalty clauses for the timing delays in the contract with the manufacturer as well since these things don't just work on trust. I understand that it is an unpleasant situation for Cavalli and the need to defend Cavalli and his team, but to say absolutely nothing can be done and this is a helpless situation isn't really true.


----------



## mscott58

jozurr said:


> Yes because it is extremely difficult to fly between cities and coordinate with the manufacturer, upgrade shipping and post regular updates here. I'm sure there would be/should have been penalty clauses for the timing delays in the contract with the manufacturer as well since these things don't just work on trust. I understand that it is an unpleasant situation for Cavalli and the need to defend Cavalli and his team, but to say absolutely nothing can be done and this is a helpless situation isn't really true.




Don't remember anyone ever saying nothing could be done...


----------



## Colgin

After a seemingly endless cross-country journey from West to East Coast, the Eagle has finally landed.


----------



## poocaso

colgin said:


> After a seemingly endless cross-country journey from West to East Coast, the Eagle has finally landed.


 

 Congrats! Enjoying mine as I write this.


----------



## mysony1

Anyone can tell me where can I get Cavalli Liquid Carbon amo in Hong Kong?


----------



## bearFNF

mysony1 said:


> Anyone can tell me where can I get Cavalli Liquid Carbon amo in Hong Kong?



Unfortunately they are sold out. If there is another batch you will only be able to get it from Cavalli directly.

You can keep an eye out for them to start showing up on the for sale forums used.


----------



## gto88

I thought that everyone who ordered will get LC by end of 2015.
 Unfortunately, it seems some are still waiting?!
 It is really a pity that a disappointment for year end holiday.
 Hopefully for those miss it can have yours soon.
 Happy new year.


----------



## purk

colgin said:


> After a seemingly endless cross-country journey from West to East Coast, the Eagle has finally landed.


 
 Did you spring for a one day shipping?  Mine won't show up in Atlanta until next Wednesday.  Enjoy the burn in process.


----------



## Shini44

gto88 said:


> I thought that everyone who ordered will get LC by end of 2015.
> Unfortunately, it seems some are still waiting?!
> It is really a pity that a disappointment for year end holiday.
> Hopefully for those miss it can have yours soon.
> Happy new year.


 
 Thanks for not forgetting about us
  
 mine seems like to be lost by Fedex.... i mean pending... and when i called they said they don't have it,. and cavali audio said they handed it.........
  
  
 i refuse to take a refund, i want the LC to pair it with the Chord Hugo
  
 its the best option for me, since i use both CIEMs and Headphones, also its the exact kind of sound sig which i am after.


----------



## purk

shini44 said:


> Thanks for not forgetting about us
> 
> mine seems like to be lost by Fedex.... i mean pending... and when i called they said they don't have it,. and cavali audio said they handed it.........
> 
> ...




I don't think yours has been shipped yet. The amp is maybe with the shipping department located in CA.


----------



## chefboyarlee

Mine is #484 and it definitely hasn't shipped yet. Ugh!


----------



## stuart1927

I really feel for you guys....It must be really frustrating to have your units in Limbo....just at the time of year when you should be spending some time listening and enjoying. 
  
 I don't know if this is a fedex or a Cavali issue, but for the last few that have been experiencing these delays,  I think some form of compensation/ goodwill gesture would go a long way?
  
  
 Hope you guys get your amps soon....the only consolation is I'm sure you won't be disappointed. 
  
 Happy new year!


----------



## purk

chefboyarlee said:


> Mine is #484 and it definitely hasn't shipped yet. Ugh!


 
  
 Man...I still don't get it.  Did the shipping department just got lazy and didn't get your out the same time as they did mine?  We are only 5 units a part with mine being #479.  I really hope you see some movement on yours soon.  It appears that I won't be getting my unit last. 


stuart1927 said:


> I really feel for you guys....It must be really frustrating to have your units in Limbo....just at the time of year when you should be spending some time listening and enjoying.
> 
> I don't know if this is a fedex or a Cavali issue, but for the last few that have been experiencing these delays,  I think some form of compensation/ goodwill gesture would go a long way?
> 
> ...


 
 It has been some what frustrating.  This is my 2nd unit because I was not wise enough to keep the first so I know that this is a great sounding amp.  I don't think it has to do with FedEX but the shipping contractor.


----------



## doctorjazz

I got lucky with the LC (if you discount the many months wait from the initial offer and delays), but I'm in for LH Labs gear, and the delays, malfunctios and waits are much worse than with LC. I think what we're seeing is the growing pains of boutique high end/low volume companies going more "mass market" (not compared to Sony, but still a major change in the mechanics of the business). They both did offer a "discounted" product in exchange for waits and possible 'teething pains", and, while some of these go smoother than others, I'm getting what the other costs are of these discounts (time, aggravation). So far, though, I'm happy with the end results; hoping the streak continues with the rest of the LH Labs stuff I have outstanding. 
Happy New Year all!


----------



## purk

doctorjazz said:


> I got lucky with the LC (if you discount the many months wait from the initial offer and delays), but I'm in for LH Labs gear, and the delays, malfunctios and waits are much worse than with LC. I think what we're seeing is the growing pains of boutique high end/low volume companies going more "mass market" (not compared to Sony, but still a major change in the mechanics of the business). They both did offer a "discounted" product in exchange for waits and possible 'teething pains", and, while some of these go smoother than others, I'm getting what the other costs are of these discounts (time, aggravation). So far, though, I'm happy with the end results; hoping the streak continues with the rest of the LH Labs stuff I have outstanding.
> Happy New Year all!


 
 I was much worst on the LH Lab gears.  Very bad experience.  The only thing that LC didn't get it right beside the long wait time is the shipping/handling issues.  I still think that the amp is good bargain compared to many new amps right now.  However, don't discount used flagship headphones amps in similar price bracket b/c you do get a lot more amps for the money.  For in stance, a Headroom BUDA is definitely superior sounding to the LC for slightly more money.  As great as the LC is...it was build to fit the $599 price bracket and some very higher end balanced amp can be had for $200 more as well.  Quality parts utilized in those discontinued amps can go a long long way as well.


----------



## doctorjazz

It's definitely worse in LH Labs land, but, remember, they stayed almost with a blank state, not a full design just waiting to be implemented. And, even with the full design, LC had had some problems.
I do agree that LC is fine at its price point, but you can improve for more money (or a good used deal)


----------



## purk

doctorjazz said:


> It's definitely worse in LH Labs land, but, remember, they stayed almost with a blank state, not a full design just waiting to be implemented. And, even with the full design, LC had had some problems.
> *I do agree that LC is fine at its price point, but you can improve for more money (or a good used deal)*


 
 We are in an agreement here.  IMO, highend parts as well as a dedicated PSU will definitely be great for the next round of LC if Alex decides to do it again.  I personally think that a dedicated PSU will help tremendously in term of the depth of the soundstage & blackness in the background as well as improvement in the bass line.  As is the width of the soundstage is quite good but the depth into the soundstage is still lacking compared to better amps.  Higher grade parts will yield even better tonality and even better tone.  I do like the sound but also wonder if Alex will do another smaller run utilizing even nicer parts.


----------



## mscott58

purk said:


> We are in an agreement here.  IMO, highend parts as well as a dedicated PSU will definitely be great for the next round of LC if Alex decides to do it again.  I personally think that a dedicated PSU will help tremendously in term of the depth of the soundstage & blackness in the background as well as improvement in the bass line.  As is the width of the soundstage is quite good but the depth into the soundstage is still lacking compared to better amps.  Higher grade parts will yield even better tonality and even better tone.  I do like the sound but also wonder if Alex will do another smaller run utilizing even nicer parts.


 
 I've actually heard rumors that Alex intends to take the technology from the LC and make a line of much higher-end amps with better parts (some SS, some tube) and even better SQ!


----------



## purk

mscott58 said:


> I've actually heard rumors that Alex intends to take the technology from the LC and make a line of much higher-end amps with better parts (some SS, some tube) and even better SQ!


 
 I thought that the solidstate one is called Liquid Gold.  I hope Alex didn't have to reinvent the wheel to make the Carbon.  Justin Wilson basically did this with many of the gilmore solidstate designs starting with a basic Gilmore Lite following by higher end models sporting better parts & power supply on each successive revisions.  Power supply can go a long long way IMO.


----------



## mscott58

purk said:


> I thought that the solidstate one is called Liquid Gold.  I hope Alex didn't have to reinvent the wheel to make the Carbon.  Justin Wilson basically did this with many of the gilmore solidstate designs starting with a basic Gilmore Lite following by higher end models sporting better parts & power supply on each successive revisions.  Power supply can go a long long way IMO.




Sorry, my comment was intended as a joke. Alex has been making handcrafted high-end amps for quite a while and the LC was his attempt to give more access to his products, and was a kind of "thank-you" to our community for support of Cavalli Audio. Cheers


----------



## purk

mscott58 said:


> Sorry, my comment was intended as a joke. Alex has been making handcrafted high-end amps for quite a while and the LC was his attempt to give more access to his products, and was a kind of "thank-you" to our community for support of Cavalli Audio. Cheers


 





 I got it now, but I was suggesting a midrange amp at or around $1200-1500 based on the Carbon concept.


----------



## mscott58

purk said:


> :wink_face:  I got it now, but I was suggesting a midrange amp at or around $1200-1500 based on the Carbon concept.




That would be cool. So between the Carbon and Crimson, not bad. For a while (at RMAF) Alex offered the Crimson for only a few hundred more - was a good deal in my opinion. Cheers


----------



## warrenpchi

I can understand that a lot of you guys waiting on amps are frustrated, and that tension is running high.  Of course, I would be frustrated too in your position.  But I'd like to remind everybody that there's very little to be gained by taking those frustrations out on each other here.  Simply put, let's stay civil guys.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In the meantime, I'll reach out to Dr. Cavalli and maybe even the manufacturer to see if there are any definitive answers.  Cool?


----------



## buke9

Agreed.


----------



## sheldaze

purk said:


> I got it now, but I was suggesting a midrange amp at or around $1200-1500 based on the Carbon concept.


 
 On first thought, I would say that you are correct! There is definite interest in amplifiers at the $1200 price point. There is still interest in the Black Widow. However, it concerns me that it took through December to finally sell all 500 of these. Is the market, which certainly exists, just smallish? How many Mjolnir would the community estimate are sold on an annual basis? Were sales slow because Liquid Carbon was not available? Were they slow because Cavalli Audio, in moving from boutique to larger volume sales, was attempting a new endeavor?
  
 Until I personally hear something in the $1200 range, like a Black Widow or a MicroZOTL2, I'll be on the fence as to why a $600 upgrade could be beneficial.


----------



## doctorjazz

As I've stated previously in this thread (or maybe one of the kazillion other LC threads out there), I like my LC, makes a fine bedside amp, my MicroZOTL2 is definitely better sounding (at almost twice the price). Ya pays your money...


----------



## yage

sheldaze said:


> Until I personally hear something in the $1200 range, like a Black Widow or a MicroZOTL2, I'll be on the fence as to why a $600 upgrade could be beneficial.


 
  
 I think if the hypothetical 'upgrade' kills all the noise on the single-ended output, I'm all for it. This would definitely increase the versatility of the amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

One can definitely live happily ever after with the LC, if you can avoid the dreaded audiophile upgradidis bug...fatal to the bank account


----------



## Youth

doctorjazz said:


> One can definitely live happily ever after with the LC,* if you can avoid the dreaded audiophile upgradidis* bug...fatal to the bank account


 
  
 I think that is close to impossible


----------



## sahmen

youth said:


> I think that is close to impossible


 
 "Impossible" sounds like a fair verdict, especially if one continues to visit Head-fi.org, not to mention frequent CanJams and Meets...
  
 Besides, how is one ever going to contain one's "audiophiliac" restlessness and fidgeting if one decided to be content with what one has, and stop believing that one can still get better performing gadgets out there... Sounds almost like a sacrilegious state of mind in the "audiophiliac playbook" if there is any such thing...


----------



## Glow Fish

yage said:


> I think if the hypothetical 'upgrade' kills all the noise on the single-ended output, I'm all for it. This would definitely increase the versatility of the amp.




My Carbon is dead silent on both balanced and single ended. Hope you figure out the problem. 

I have been thrilled to find the Carbon immune to the RFI and hum that has plagued both of my Woo amps in the same room.


----------



## doctorjazz

Haven't noted noisy in either single ended or balanced either.


----------



## Dave74

The hum in mine seems to build up.  When I turned the LC on this morning I listened with my Nighthawks SE for around 30-45 min and couldn't hear any hum between songs.  I then unplugged the Nighthawks, plugged my balanced HE-500 in to keep burning in the LC and just checked with the Nighthawk this afternoon and the hum has returned on the SE.  I turned the LC off, waited a minuted, turned it back on and the hum was there but very faint and within about 1 minute it was louder.  I still can't hear it over music unless it is a very quiet part of a song.
  
 Could this hum cause any potential damage to anything either LC or headphones?


----------



## yage

glow fish said:


> My Carbon is dead silent on both balanced and single ended. Hope you figure out the problem.
> 
> I have been thrilled to find the Carbon immune to the RFI and hum that has plagued both of my Woo amps in the same room.


 
  


doctorjazz said:


> Haven't noted noisy in either single ended or balanced either.


 
  
 Mine has a loud hum whenever balanced input is connected for any output mode. (Amp is on its way back to Dr. Cavalli.) Single-ended has no hum, but there is a very, *very*, low level buzz that is barely audible on the HD 600 but becomes more intrusive with the NAD VISO HP50. Maybe all the problems will be solved when I get it back - fingers crossed!


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

I can most definitely pick up low level hum through single ended IEM usage but it's not an issue since it pretty much vanishes when music's playing.


----------



## Peridot

I had initially set up mine in an electrically noisy environment close to my computer equipment. I've now moved it onto my dedicated AV circuit and the hum is much reduced. There's still a little on the SE output when I turn the volume up high. Grounding the Emotiva via the LC using a phono lead between SE connections reduces it to almost nothing.


----------



## nudd

Had my Carbon sitting in the office for a couple of weeks as I had been away on holidays and just picked it up today.
  
 All I can say is that even just before burning the thing in, I like it.
  
 It gives my HE500 (my only open full sized headphones wired for balanced) a "warmer" sound than straight out of the Pulse X Infinity. It's not that it sounds particular warm as an amp and its not a night and day difference but it is (confirmation bias or not) in my mind preferable to listen to the HE500 out of the Carbon than out of the head amp section of the infinity. 
  
 Also have the Sony XBA-H3 in balanced (kobiconn) setup and it sounds dead quiet.
  
 None of these are particularly efficient, but I am going to burn in the Carbon for about 150 hours before listening in SE mode (per Dr Cavalli's suggestion) otherwise the amp sections of the Carbon which are only engaged in balanced mode will be burning in at different rates.


----------



## Jozurr

Congratulations! You are now a proud owner of the highly anticipated Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon Balanced Transportable Headphone Amplifier!
  
 Serial number 494 is here via fedex ground.


----------



## bearFNF

Sweet! Getting to the last of them it seems.


----------



## chefboyarlee

This is what pisses me off the most. Why are they going out of order!!!


----------



## Maconi

jozurr said:


> Congratulations! You are now a proud owner of the highly anticipated Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon Balanced Transportable Headphone Amplifier!
> 
> Serial number 494 is here via fedex ground.


 
  
 Still no movement on mine. Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't charged us before shipping them and refunds weren't an option. Basically you either just have to deal with it or go the dirty route of filing a PayPal dispute/doing a chargeback.
  
 I don't even have plans to keep mine at this point though (I've already ordered a Ragnarok instead) so really it's just delaying someone else from enjoying the LC.


----------



## sheldaze

maconi said:


> Still no movement on mine. Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't charged us before shipping them and refunds weren't an option. Basically you either just have to deal with it or go the dirty route of filing a PayPal dispute/doing a chargeback.
> 
> I don't even have plans to keep mine at this point though (I've already ordered a Ragnarok instead) so really it's just delaying someone else from enjoying the LC.


 
 If you can, I would still recommend you listen to the Liquid Carbon.
  
 I have a Ragnarok, and it is not what I would call a "slam-dunk" upgrade from the Carbon. I _much_ prefer certain headphones on the Carbon.


----------



## prollyNOT

maconi said:


> Still no movement on mine. Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't charged us before shipping them and refunds weren't an option. Basically you either just have to deal with it or go the dirty route of filing a PayPal dispute/doing a chargeback.
> 
> I don't even have plans to keep mine at this point though (I've already ordered a Ragnarok instead) so really it's just delaying someone else from enjoying the LC.


 

 have you already found a buyer? If not, well.. PM. Or maybe somebody else ran out of patience... or money...or whatever reason -> PM.


----------



## mandrake50

chefboyarlee said:


> This is what pisses me off the most. Why are they going out of order!!!


 

 Order? They don't have a clue. The manufacturer did not do what Dr. Cavalli asked them to do from the beginning. There seems to be no rational reason why they could not ship the last 25 units with the rest.
 If one is to be "pissed" it could be because the unit has not arrived. OTH getting "pissed" does not get you anything besides putting stress into your life. It surely does not get the L to you any quicker.
 The best I can recommend is to relax and patiently wait.
  
 Keep in mind, some of us ordered back in  April and just got our LC within the last couple of weeks. If you are in the last 25, you have not been waiting nearly as long. I feel your pain, it took mine 11 days from label created until FedEx actually scanned it into their system.., after over 7 months.
  
 No reason to be pissed... follow the path. Contact Cavalli. Get the real story. I feel real confident that you will get your LC.
  
 Good luck, but save your sanity...


----------



## chefboyarlee

I'm not really mad per se. It's just upsetting because it's just not how I would run a business. If I was Alex I would have been on a flight to California at the first sign of trouble. Yes the Manu/fulfillment co totally dropped the ball. But this also reflects poorly on Cavalli. If this was my baby, I would be a LOT more involved to ensure my customers were happy.


----------



## mandrake50

chefboyarlee said:


> I'm not really mad per se. It's just upsetting because it's just not how I would run a business. If I was Alex I would have been on a flight to California at the first sign of trouble. Yes the Manu/fulfillment co totally dropped the ball. But this also reflects poorly on Cavalli. If this was my baby, I would be a LOT more involved to ensure my customers were happy.


 

 The situation is this... no one knows what Alex has done...  I could tell you about my Aerospace days.. when multiple hundreds of millions were on the line and we had 50 people onsite with a supplier... along with 20 high power people from the US Air Force..they still blew the date..


----------



## XenHeadFi

chefboyarlee said:


> I'm not really mad per se. It's just upsetting because it's just not how I would run a business. If I was Alex I would have been on a flight to California at the first sign of trouble. Yes the Manu/fulfillment co totally dropped the ball. But this also reflects poorly on Cavalli. If this was my baby, I would be a LOT more involved to ensure my customers were happy.


 
  
 The order shipped was based on location and carrier. International was sent first. Then FedEx/UPS. Then USPS. This was stated somewhere in either of the 2 main Carbon threads. Probably this one.
  
 Also, Dr. Cavalli did fly out either before the first batch or after the first batch. This was also stated somewhere in the 2 main Carbon threads. Probably the other one.
  
 This is my first boutique audio purchase. Paid in August. Received in December. Reading other threads about some big bucks gear and the wait is in years... I read somewhere that a Blue Hawaii is around 1 year wait... crazy...with a $1400 deposit (25%)!


----------



## purk

xenheadfi said:


> The order shipped was based on location and carrier. International was sent first. Then FedEx/UPS. Then USPS. This was stated somewhere in either of the 2 main Carbon threads. Probably this one.
> 
> Also, Dr. Cavalli did fly out either before the first batch or after the first batch. This was also stated somewhere in the 2 main Carbon threads. Probably the other one.
> 
> This is my first boutique audio purchase. Paid in August. Received in December. Reading other threads about some big bucks gear and the wait is in years... I read somewhere that a Blue Hawaii is around 1 year wait... crazy...with a $1400 deposit (25%)!


 
 I think it is more like International >> USPS > FedEX ground.  Yes, it is much worst for headamp products but you are paying 1/4 of the deposit for a world class amp.  If you have not heard or seen the BHSE in person, you may want to withhold that statement.  I waited 1.5 years for mine and it is very worth it.  We know that Justin has this on going delay problems dating back since 2009 and potential buyers continue to go down that path, so it actually speaks very highly for his products.  The Liquid Carbon wait isn't as bad as the BHSE, but Cavailli Audio can also do a better job coordinating.


----------



## XenHeadFi

purk said:


> I think it is more like International >> USPS > FedEX ground.  Yes, it is much worst for headamp products but you are paying 1/4 of the deposit for a world class amp.  If you have not heard or seen the BHSE in person, you may want to withhold that statement.  I waited 1.5 years for mine and it is very worth it.  We know that Justin has this on going delay problems dating back since 2009 and potential buyers continue to go down that path, so it actually speaks very highly for his products.  The Liquid Carbon wait isn't as bad as the BHSE, but Cavailli Audio can also do a better job coordinating.


 
  
 Was not disparaging the Blue Hawaii at all. The "crazy" was about the wait times and that the deposit is almost 3 times the Carbon's price. So, waiting a few weeks after paying $600-700 (in the US) is not bad for boutique audio.
  
 To those who joined in later (like in November), remember that about 200 people paid in April for an August delivery that was delayed until November...


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> I think that is close to impossible


 
 Have you received your Liquid Carbon? What do you think of the pairing with the DAC-19?


----------



## Youth

sheldaze said:


> Have you received your Liquid Carbon? What do you think of the pairing with the DAC-19?


 
  
 Not yet, but almost. It's cleared the the customs and will be delivered one of the upcomming days. I'll be sure to give several impressions of the pairing along the way!


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> Not yet, but almost. It's cleared the the customs and will be delivered one of the upcomming days. I'll be sure to give several impressions of the pairing along the way!


 
 I'm thinking about DAC-19.
 I'm happy with the Gumby and Carbon, but no other amplifiers seem to accept balanced inputs. So...
  
 Looking forward to your impressions.
 And thanks!


----------



## woodcans

S# 477 just landed and is warming up.


----------



## Thenewguy007

sheldaze said:


> If you can, I would still recommend you listen to the Liquid Carbon.
> 
> I have a Ragnarok, and it is not what I would call a "slam-dunk" upgrade from the Carbon. I _much_ prefer certain headphones on the Carbon.


 
  
 The impressions I been hearing on this amp are all over the place
 From the Carbon basically being a slight upgrade over the  Schiit $100 Magi amp & now I hear that the Carbon is almost as good as the $1,800 Ragnarok & better in some cases?


----------



## sheldaze

thenewguy007 said:


> The impressions I been hearing on this amp are all over the place
> From the Carbon basically being a slight upgrade over the  Schiit $100 Magi amp & now I hear that the Carbon is almost as good as the $1,800 Ragnarok & better in some cases?


 
 Not following you - the impressions I have been reading were positive.
  
 Impressions on the shipping delay issues have been another story


----------



## Thenewguy007

sheldaze said:


> Not following you - the impressions I have been reading were positive.
> 
> Impressions on the shipping delay issues have been another story


 

 They were all positive, I'm just saying the comparisons have been all over the place.

 Good compared to the other sub $500 amps or it can hold its own against TOTL amps.


----------



## WNBC

Impressions should be all over the place as we have different preferences and expectations.  I wouldn't expect anything else or it becomes a hype train.  Even if we all had the same tastes and preferences, we're using different sources and headphones. 
  
 The giant killer statements are also taken with a grain of salt.  How many people have experience with TOTL amps?  How much of the response is due to new gear syndrome which will then taper off for a more realistic opinion?  Hard to say.  Hopefully, the same people will give a later update of LC vs their TOTL amps.  Statements from established members with TOTL amp reviews (formal and informal) will be taken more seriously.  I haven't owned any SS TOTL amps, but a decent number of mid-fi SS amps and maybe one or two TOTL tube amps.
  
 I would take the LC over the Violectric V200, but that's me and my preferences.  I will also admit that I like the LC in SE-mode.  I admitted it   No balanced gear yet.
  
 I do like reading the LC is a giant killer as I like to know that my purchase has a high price-to-performance ratio.  In any case, I am glad I stumbled upon this thread and got one of the last 10 production units.  This is a pretty good amp to complement the microZOTL coming soon.  I am pairing the LC with a modded cheapie KAM HP1 and digging the combo immensely.  If I had any type of restraint I would stop there...  
  
      
  
  
 Quote:


thenewguy007 said:


> The impressions I been hearing on this amp are all over the place
> From the Carbon basically being a slight upgrade over the  Schiit $100 Magi amp & now I hear that the Carbon is almost as good as the $1,800 Ragnarok & better in some cases?


----------



## sheldaze

thenewguy007 said:


> They were all positive, I'm just saying the comparisons have been all over the place.
> 
> Good compared to the other sub $500 amps or it can hold its own against TOTL amps.


 
 I'm going to hold my tongue on the TOTL topic until I've heard MicroZOTL and/or Black Widow.
  
 For me personally, the Liquid Carbon is an upgrade over Meier Audio Corda Rock and Schiit Vali 2. However, I spent some time over the break listening to those for several days at a time. Using the same HD650 headphone, and it took me a moment to adjust to what was _good _with regards to the Liquid Carbon. Using something a little higher end, such as HD800 or HE-1000, the upgrade was immediately obvious.
  
 I think for people coming to the LC from the lower tier of headphones and amps, the comparison to Asgard/Magni may make sense. And it may be subtle if that person is still using headphones in the $100-$400 range. But I would guess that anyone using a headphone in the $1500+ range would immediately be grateful for the sonic upgrade that is the LC.
  
 TL;DR is I've got no problems with the reviews being all over the place because I think this is drawing people in from all over the place. Some people are upgrading from around $300 up. And some people are trying it from around $1200 down. I happen to have the Rag, and I still like it. But I did not like the Rag with all my headphones (i.e. HD650/HD800). And those headphones, I _do _like how they sound on the LC. The headphones that sounded good on the Rag (i.e. HE-1000) still sound really good on the Rag.


----------



## swspiers

thenewguy007 said:


> sheldaze said:
> 
> 
> > If you can, I would still recommend you listen to the Liquid Carbon.
> ...




Slight upgrade over the Magni is, well, so far out of my experience that it's like telling me the sun is blue.

Close to the Ragnarok is more believable, considering how close the great amps are to one another. I take it with a grain of salt though.

I also don't find the impressions all over the place. Like any standard bell curve, there are outliers. But overall, the impressions are pretty consistent: this is a good amp verging on greatness.

YMMV and all that


----------



## doctorjazz

I also find the hype a bit off putting...I actually really do love my LC, probably use it the most as far as day to day listening, as I have it set up at the bedside, and use it mostly single ended, with acs Encore ciems. It realy sounds good. My other headphone system, from my PC, has my ZOTL, and I have done direct comparisons using the HEK, and the ZOTL sounds better to my ears, more open, better soundstage, better detail. As it should be, at about twice the price. There isn't always a direct correlation between price and SQ, though often better stuff costs more (with diminishing returns meaning it costs a lot to get a little improvement, but little improvements go a long way towards audiophile bliss). Associated equipment means a lot-I likely wouldn't not the difference as much with, say a Q701 as with the HEK. But, even Cavalli will tell you it is not the be all and end all (after all, he has higher end amps he sells...no one is claiming LC bests or equals the higher Cavalli spread). 
Yes, there is new toy syndrome, have fallen into it myself at times.
Yes, it is quite an upgrade (LC) if you are coming from a phone or inexpensive amp.
Yes, you do have to spend a lot to improve SQ. 
Yes, system matching applies to most gear, LC included.
Yes, differences in amps tend to be of smaller magnitude than those of headphones/transducers-this makes describing the differences almost automatically become hyping them, as they are more subtle than the difference between, say, a Q701 and a HE-560; the act of describing them BY ITS NATURE makes them sound more than they are.

The LC is a good amp. I like it a lot. The ZOTL is better, but, for logistical reasons, I use the LC more (my main stereo, Thiel speakers, Krell Amp, Peachtree Preamp, Linn LP12 turntable, is the best of the bunch. And, I listen to it the least, again, for logistical/lifestyle reasons).

I'll end here, going on too long, you get the idea.


----------



## sling5s

sheldaze said:


> I'm going to hold my tongue on the TOTL topic until I've heard MicroZOTL and/or Black Widow.
> 
> For me personally, the Liquid Carbon is an upgrade over Meier Audio Corda Rock and Schiit Vali 2. However, I spent some time over the break listening to those for several days at a time. Using the same HD650 headphone, and it took me a moment to adjust to what was _good _with regards to the Liquid Carbon. Using something a little higher end, such as HD800 or HE-1000, the upgrade was immediately obvious.
> 
> ...


 

 +1
 I agree. Synergy and preference also plays a factor. I've had many mid fi amps and few TOTL amps and I preferred the humble Gustard H10 ( & Lyr 2) over the LC with Grado GH1, and Vali 1 with JH13pro, and Chord Mojo with Grado Magnum V6, but I mainly purchased the LC for the HD800 which definitely has good synergy with LC.


----------



## doctorjazz

Good old synergy, don't hear enough about it in these parts!


----------



## swspiers

doctorjazz said:


> Good old synergy, don't hear enough about it in these parts!




Great album!


----------



## doctorjazz




----------



## Shini44

Serial #00499 (last piece)
  
 is on the move!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEH!


----------



## chefboyarlee

shini44 said:


> Serial #00499 (last piece)
> 
> is on the move!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEH!





FedEx ground in the US? Did it change status yesterday or today? 

#484 still nothing...so sad.


----------



## Shini44

chefboyarlee said:


> FedEx ground in the US? Did it change status yesterday or today?
> 
> #484 still nothing...so sad.


 
 i am sure yours will get shipped this week!! no worries  also yeh ground in US, will take like till Friday -.-'' then another company will bring it to Dubai, so i assume i will have mine in a week and three days.


----------



## purk

#479 has landed.


----------



## Maconi

> As you know, shipment of the last 20 Liquid Carbons has not been well handled by the manufacturer. We believe we can remedy this quickly with your permission.
> 
> While working intensely with the manufacturer to get the last amps out, we have located a batch of amps reserved for a large customer and not yet shipped. These amps are new and boxed. We would like to redirect one of these amps to you. The serial number will not be the same as what you have been expecting, but all else will be the same. In addition, we have had the manufacturer send these amps to us for shipping. Because of that we have opened the packages and inspected them. Your amp should ship to the address below within a day or two of hearing from you. We will send new tracking information at that time.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So it looks like the last of us will be getting our amps soon.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sounds so OMINOUS!!!


----------



## x RELIC x

shini44 said:


> Serial #00499 (last piece)
> 
> is on the move!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEH!




At with that I'm guessing the last of the Liquid Carbons has shipped!


----------



## Maconi

It's interesting that #499 was built/shipped before lower numbered amps shipping by the same speed/service (FedEx). Looks like the manufacturer really messed up (maybe some of the last 20 didn't pass QA due to rushing during manufacturing and was going to take a while to rebuild?).
  
 Makes me wonder who the "large customer" is though and why they bought a bunch of amps?


----------



## Shini44

maconi said:


> It's interesting that #499 was built/shipped before lower numbered amps shipping by the same speed/service (FedEx). Looks like the manufacturer really messed up (maybe some of the last 20 didn't pass QA due to rushing during manufacturing and was going to take a while to rebuild?).
> 
> Makes me wonder who the "large customer" is though and why they bought a bunch of amps?


 
 i heard these are new serial numbers man, seems like the original got lost by fedex or something
  
 maybe ask @Jozurr i think he received a new unit  which got a new serial number or so.
  
 that explains the delay as well, there is a lot chaos going on, and the worst part i saw a lot getting the buzz/hum from these new units, including @Jozurr who was complaining today about it, i told him to wait and get the unit to be burned in for 150 hours before he judge the unit.
  
 i hope my unit will be fine from these annoying issues i've been reading about lately..


----------



## purk

Mine has arrived but appear to suffer a noticeably hum problem in SE configuration.  The hum issue only happens with my JH13pro and not even on my Sony MDR-CD3000.  Has anyone had this problem with IEM?  Thanks.


----------



## bearFNF

There was noise with my roxannes on the SE connection. I would not call it a hum per se but more of a hiss. This was in CanJam so there was a lot of ambient noise also. I wouldn't be using a sensitive IEM on the SE connection, balanced is better.


----------



## purk

bearfnf said:


> There was noise with my roxannes on the SE connection. I would not call it a hum per se but more of a hiss. This was in CanJam so there was a lot of ambient noise also. I wouldn't be using a sensitive IEM on the SE connection, balanced is better.


 
 So this is normal?  Can others provide some feedback on this?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Shini44

purk said:


> So this is normal?  Can others provide some feedback on this?  Thanks in advance.


 
 i recall someone using K10 SE and getting noise, yet it became better with the Balance cable. 
  
 type K10 in the search bar of the topic to find out more info ^^


----------



## sling5s

purk said:


> Mine has arrived but appear to suffer a noticeably hum problem in SE configuration.  The hum issue only happens with my JH13pro and not even on my Sony MDR-CD3000.  Has anyone had this problem with IEM?  Thanks.


 

 Mine hums with JH13 also. No hiss, just hum (like a motor or engine that is idling). I use my Chord Mojo with Jh13 so it's not an issue with me.


----------



## bearFNF

I just checked my HE500 and HD800 SE and balanced and then my GH1/G and roxannes SE only don't have balanced cables for them.

In all cases the SE has what i wpuld call transformer hum. The severity depends on the HP. Some cases it is not noticable to me at listening levels.
Balanced is dead quiet for the two HP'S I tried balanced.

I did try Alex's Etys that he had a balanced cable for at canjam and there was no noise with them.


----------



## ying

bearfnf said:


> I just checked my HE500 and HD800 SE and balanced and then my GH1/G and roxannes SE only don't have balanced cables for them.
> 
> In all cases the SE has what i wpuld call transformer hum. The severity depends on the HP. Some cases it is not noticable to me at listening levels.
> Balanced is dead quiet for the two HP'S I tried balanced.
> ...


 
 Wait what??? balanced cable for ETYS where can i get that????????????????????!


----------



## bearFNF

ying said:


> Wait what??? balanced cable for ETYS where can i get that????????????????????!:basshead: :basshead: :atsmile:


You could ask him I don't remember if he made them himself or had them made.


----------



## purk

Thanks for the feedback.  This appears to be a design fault albeit "normal" for this amp then.  I sure wish Alex had opted for a 1/8" TRRS instead of RSA balanced output for sure.


----------



## chefboyarlee

Thank you Alex for really making things right. I feel even better knowing that the soon to be my unit went through another (or first?) level of quality control and testing at the Cavalli headquarters before they shipped it out today. #375 should be here on Friday ...along with my new Bifrost Multibit!


----------



## doctorjazz

1)don't hear a hum listening single ended through acs Encore, which I believe are pretty sensitive. I ordered in the early days, wonder if something happened to production later causing the hum issue.
2) if I remember correctly, the Etys don't have a removable cable. This would mean you need to send it to a cable manufacturer to change to balanced cable, no "plug and play".
3) I would have liked TRRS better than the RSA as well, more iem's are wired balanced for them. But, they had to make some choices and some limits at this price point, I figure.


----------



## bearFNF

Mine is #158 so not one of the later ones.

Alex was very protective of the set he had due to that. He also indicated that it was a tricky accomplishment. But he said he wanted to have them for demo.


----------



## yage

doctorjazz said:


> 1)don't hear a hum listening single ended through acs Encore, which I believe are pretty sensitive. I ordered in the early days, wonder if something happened to production later causing the hum issue.
> 2) if I remember correctly, the Etys don't have a removable cable. This would mean you need to send it to a cable manufacturer to change to balanced cable, no "plug and play".


 
  
 The Ety cable can be removed - you have to pull really hard. It isn't designed to be swapped out too much, so it's probably best to use an adapter (click here for an example on eBay). If you want to build your own, you'll need to add in a resistor for each side in order to get the right response. This page has more details on that.


----------



## x RELIC x

Serial #254..... Reading the latest posts motivated me to switch the relatively sensitive JH Angie IEM from the balanced cable to the SE 3.5mm TRS cable to test the SE out on the Liquid Carbon. I hear a very low level hum, not affected by volume and not noticeable with music playing. It's the exact same hum I hear from the Oppo HA-1 to the Angie and I chalk it up to a 'dirty power' hum, not amp hissing, no sir, not in any way.


----------



## doctorjazz

yage said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > 1)don't hear a hum listening single ended through acs Encore, which I believe are pretty sensitive. I ordered in the early days, wonder if something happened to production later causing the hum issue.
> ...




Thank you sir, I stand corrected...but, looking at the page you linked on how it's done, I can see I WON'T Be doing it any time soon.


----------



## adobotj

Serial 319 has arrived!  I'm now graduated to the impressions thread!


----------



## ying

If Etymotic would just let you change the cables (easier) and give the option of an additional pair of balanced cable, why not I would gladly pay for for these features..... :*(((


----------



## purk

ying said:


> If Etymotic would just let you change the cables (easier) and give the option of an additional pair of balanced cable, why not I would gladly pay for for these features..


 
 Why not get someone to reterminate the cable for you or do it yourself?


----------



## fengwei007

Just a quick update that mine (Serial # 00458) finally arrived a few days ago. Didn't bother burning it in, upon first listening paired with HD800 (balanced cable) and HM901s (line out from dock port), the sound is fantastic, the best I've ever heard from my HD800.
  
 I think this would be the last amp I'm getting for headphones. Now just need to find more time enjoy musics and head time


----------



## 3rddimension

*BURN BABY BURN!!! *


----------



## callizer

Anyone has Hugo and Liquid Carbon? I'm getting huge distortion with this pairing. What can possibly be the cause?


----------



## ambrose1985

callizer said:


> Anyone has Hugo and Liquid Carbon? I'm getting huge distortion with this pairing. What can possibly be the cause?


 
  
 me. Not experiencing any form of distortion.. .But what kind of distortion are you getting ?


----------



## jarnopp

ambrose1985 said:


> me. Not experiencing any form of distortion.. .But what kind of distortion are you getting ?




See the impressions thread for follow up on this.


----------



## jarnopp

mattyhew said:


> Gotcha, I had 5 left in a set like these, seem to do the job fine, gives it just enough clearance that its not scratching on my DAC.


 

 I found these at Ace and think they add a bit of style with the white lettering and provide a bit of clearance/cushion also.  $2.49, installed.


----------



## m usicguy

Musciguy here,
  
 Got my amp today.  Sounds fantasic!!!!
  
 musicguy


----------



## chronograf86

Guys, any idea how AKG 812 will sound with LC ?


----------



## AladdinSane

You ma


chronograf86 said:


> Guys, any idea how AKG 812 will sound with LC ?


 
 You may want to go to the Impressions thread to get well...impressions.


----------



## Peridot

I thought that my LC deserved a more comfortable and befitting home to reside in, so I put my limited wood- and metal-working skills to use today.
  
 It still needs a bit of finishing, although the most appropriate finishing would be a pair of Ether-C on that top shelf


----------



## woodcans

peridot said:


> I thought that my LC deserved a more comfortable and befitting home to reside in, so I put my limited wood- and metal-working skills to use today.
> 
> It still needs a bit of finishing, although the most appropriate finishing would be a pair of Ether-C on that top shelf


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






>


 
  


  
  
  
 That's gorgeous. Based upon the photo, I wouldn't refer to your skills as 'limited'.


----------



## Anjolie

peridot said:


> I thought that my LC deserved a more comfortable and befitting home to reside in, so I put my limited wood- and metal-working skills to use today.
> 
> It still needs a bit of finishing, although the most appropriate finishing would be a pair of Ether-C on that top shelf


 
 That is absolutely beautiful.  Nice job!


----------



## Peridot

Thanks for the compliments. There really was little skill involved. The shelves are chopping boards so it was just a matter of drilling the holes for the threaded bar, which I fortunately got to line up correctly.
  
 I did originally look for something ready made, but there doesn't seem to be much available for Head-Fi gear.


----------



## stuart1927

Peridot, what is the unit above the LC?


----------



## Peridot

stuart1927 said:


> Peridot, what is the unit above the LC?


 
  
 It's a Squeezebox Touch streamer.
  
 I've borrowed it from my main speaker system. I'm looking out for another one, but second-hand units are selling for more than I originally paid for this new.


----------



## stuart1927

Never understood why queezebox stopped making hardware....they had it made and just gave up!


----------



## doctorjazz

That's a Squeebox Touch? I have one, but I didn't recognize it, looks different.
Nice looking set up!


----------



## adobotj

peridot said:


> I thought that my LC deserved a more comfortable and befitting home to reside in, so I put my limited wood- and metal-working skills to use today.
> 
> It still needs a bit of finishing, although the most appropriate finishing would be a pair of Ether-C on that top shelf




WOW! What a wonderful craftsmanship! I wish I had your skill so I can make a beautiful home for my LC. I'm still in the burning in process until Tuesday in my burning in area


----------



## adobotj

By the way guys, would some of you know if I can use a balanced to se converter cable? I have one with me but I'm scared to use it as I recall someone said before that balanced to se is bad and might damage the amp. 

Here's my cable: 



I plan to use my rhapsodio-rti2 iem single ended and plug it to rsa output of the LC using this cable. Would it damage the amp/iem? Or is this safe and possible? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Shini44

SQ wise not sure it will be what you get from a pure balance cable, because if the other end is SE then its like using SE, its just you changed the plug and forced it to be there
  
 so i won't expect a normal SQ coming this way, usually i would use this only if there was no SE input and i had to use my after market SE cables on the balance input
  
  
  
 but hey i might be wrong.


----------



## adobotj

shini44 said:


> SQ wise not sure it will be what you get from a pure balance cable, because if the other end is SE then its like using SE, its just you changed the plug and forced it to be there
> 
> so i won't expect a normal SQ coming this way, usually i would use this only if there was no SE input and i had to use my after market SE cables on the balance input
> 
> ...




Thanks shini! Actually, the reason I'm considering using this is because I want to utilize the balanced output of LC because it might be "quiet-er" than the se output. I can hear a low pitch but very faint hum on the LC'S se output. 

My concern is the safety of using this kind of plug fearful of damaging the amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

What I've read here is that it's ok to use a single ended adaptor to connect a balanced cable to a single ended output (which in fact is what I do for my other amp), but it is NOT ok the other way, using an adaptor to plug a single ended headphone to the amp balanced output. I do believe you can damage the amp.


----------



## mscott58

doctorjazz said:


> What I've read here is that it's ok to use a single ended adaptor to connect a balanced cable to a single ended output (which in fact is what I do for my other amp), but it is NOT ok the other way, using an adaptor to plug a single ended headphone to the amp balanced output. I do believe you can damage the amp.




Listen to Doc, he's got it right. Cheers


----------



## adobotj

doctorjazz said:


> What I've read here is that it's ok to use a single ended adaptor to connect a balanced cable to a single ended output (which in fact is what I do for my other amp), but it is NOT ok the other way, using an adaptor to plug a single ended headphone to the amp balanced output. I do believe you can damage the amp.




That's what I also thought (and remembered). Thanks for confirming doc! 




mscott58 said:


> Listen to Doc, he's got it right. Cheers




I will  thanks for confirming too mscott!


----------



## jlbrach

a question for those owning the LC:If i was to attach a Chord Hugo or Mojo to the LC can i use the LC in the balanced mode with a balanced cable and my cans or am I unable to do so since the Mojo and Hugo do not have balanced connections to the LC?....am I only able to use the LC in non balanced SE mode if I use the Mojo and or Hugo?....thanks ahead of time!


----------



## iceman16221

With the Hugo/Mojo you can use balanced out to your headphones with the Liquid Carbon.  You just won't be able to use the balanced inputs of the carbon.


----------



## jlbrach

so in other words even if i use a balanced cable from the LC I will not be receiving a balanced signal if i use the hugo or mojo?


----------



## buke9

jlbrach said:


> so in other words even if i use a balanced cable from the LC I will not be receiving a balanced signal if i use the hugo or mojo?


 
 Nope there is a phase shifter or something like that that makes your se in a balanced out to the phones.


----------



## XenHeadFi

buke9 said:


> Nope there is a phase shifter or something like that that makes your se in a balanced out to the phones.


 
 And it works very very well! Only a decrease of 1dB compared to BAL input (both from a Gumby). Barely noticeable unless you are sitting there hitting the SE/BAL button.


----------



## chronograf86

Guys, anyone with AKG 812 and LC, how it sounds ?


----------



## doctorjazz

I thought it was a shape shifter...wait, wrong site!


----------



## mscott58

xenheadfi said:


> And it works very very well! Only a decrease of 1dB compared to BAL input (both from a Gumby). Barely noticeable unless you are sitting there hitting the SE/BAL button.




Agree - The Mojo into the LC works very well, with the LC's phase splitter turning the Mojo's SE signal into a great balanced output. Cheers


----------



## Hachiroku

Will there ever be any more of these ? Gonna have to excuse my lack of info, I don't really know how their business plan works. From what I've read about older models, it does seem like it might be discontinued.


----------



## x RELIC x

hachiroku said:


> Will there ever be any more of these ? Gonna have to excuse my lack of info, I don't really know how their business plan works. From what I've read about older models, it does seem like it might be discontinued.




There may be more down the road, but nobody knows. They certainly won't be sold at the same price as Cavalli has discounted the initial run of Liquid Carbons as a thank you to the community, again, if he ever makes them again.


----------



## vince741

Seems really unlikely considering all the issue related to the manufacturer.


----------



## Anjolie

vince741 said:


> Seems really unlikely considering all the issue related to the manufacturer.


 
 I would venture a guess that Mr. Cavalli would consider it and having learned what worked and what didn't, will make the necessary adjustments for the next run.  Although as mentioned above, the price may be a bit higher when that happens.  But take heart, there is always the used market and if this hobby has taught me anything, it's that G.A.S. is always present as we are all in search of that end-game system with that perfect sound


----------



## Youth

Even if he makes another run I think it's gonna be a while. Happy I got mine before they ran out of stock.


----------



## bloodydoorknob

Finally got to test my LC in balanced mode with new cables and it turns out the cables I purchased initially were not working and there's nothing wrong with my amp.  I made contact with Mr. Cavalli and he was extremely helpful throughout the process of troubleshooting.


----------



## Hachiroku

Alright, thx for the info ! I hope there will be at least an official announcement soon, their website doesn't seem to hint anything.


----------



## rmullins08

hachiroku said:


> Alright, thx for the info ! I hope there will be at least an official announcement soon, their website doesn't seem to hint anything.


 
 I wouldn't expect any official announcement.  If you look at the original announcement post
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available
  
 It was said to be the first (and possibly only) run, and that was with a 4 month production goal.


----------



## Hachiroku

Yeah, the chances look pretty unfavorable now. So do they usually announce it exclusively on HF when they're planning another set ?


----------



## swspiers

hachiroku said:


> Yeah, the chances look pretty unfavorable now. So do they usually announce it exclusively on HF when they're planning another set ?




It's only happened this once, that I'm aware of. But I have already seen two for sale in the classifieds.


----------



## Shini44

my amp will be here tomorrow @_@  i won't be able to seep today


----------



## doctorjazz

You'll be a very sleepy headphone listener tomorrow!


----------



## Hachiroku

swspiers said:


> It's only happened this once, that I'm aware of. But I have already seen two for sale in the classifieds.


 
 Yeah I've seen them, most of them have been only in U.S. I doubt anyone in EU would sell such a thing if they had it, but anyhow a lot of issues/slowdowns are prone to happen if one is buying overseas.


----------



## harpo1

If anyone is interested in selling their LC hit me up.


----------



## zachawry

How long until we see used LCs going for higher than retail?
  






 
  
 (Given the significant birthing pains of the product, and how incredibly awesome it is, I hope it's worth Alex's while to make it a permanent part of his line-up, even at a higher price-point. I personally would think it was a good deal even for $800-1000, though people may balk at paying that much for something that used to go for $600.)


----------



## Maconi

zachawry said:


> How long until we see used LCs going for higher than retail?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's against Head-Fi rules (that would be considered flipping) so I wouldn't count on it (eBay is always an option but then you take a 14% cut). Also once you clear $1k there are amps that outperform the LC (albeit usually in a larger/heavier form factor).
  
 As for another LC run, this whole thing seems like it's been pretty hard on Cavalli (having to deal with external manufacturers and what not). I doubt we see another LC run for a while. Alex will probably make sure everyone is happy with the amps he has already sold and then start a new project (probably going back to internal manufacturing).
 I'd say it'll be a few months before anything new comes out of Cavalli. That's all conjecture on my part though.


----------



## zachawry

maconi said:


> It's against Head-Fi rules (that would be considered flipping) so I wouldn't count on it (eBay is always an option but then you take a 14% cut). Also once you clear $1k there are amps that outperform the LC (albeit usually in a larger/heavier form factor).


 
  
 I don't really know (or care, since I don't intend to sell mine), but I thought it wasn't considered flipping if you used it for a while before selling it.


----------



## Maconi

zachawry said:


> maconi said:
> 
> 
> > It's against Head-Fi rules (that would be considered flipping) so I wouldn't count on it (eBay is always an option but then you take a 14% cut). Also once you clear $1k there are amps that outperform the LC (albeit usually in a larger/heavier form factor).
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/buy-sell-trade-rules
  


> Commercial sales and "Flipping"
> *3. The classifieds are for personal, non-commercial non-profit sales.  *
> 
> Buying and selling items on the forums for the express purpose of making a profit is not allowed. Buying an item to immediately resell at a profit is known as "flipping."
> ...


 
  
 The important part is that last bit. In a few months if people feel like the value of the LC has increased (rather than decreased, as is usually the case) then you'd be allowed to sell it for whatever someone would pay you for it. Like I said though, you're not going to make much of a profit with amps like the microZOTL2.0 sitting @ the $1k line (unless a collector just REALLY wants an LC, which is totally understandable).


----------



## doctorjazz

Agreed, the LC is great at its price point...if you get to $1k, makes sense to get a ZOTL.


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Agreed, the LC is great at its price point...if you get to $1k, makes sense to get a ZOTL.


Dang!


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed, the LC is great at its price point...if you get to $1k, makes sense to get a ZOTL.
> ...



Sorry...

My opinion, of course, ymmv and all the other disclaimers (or, just do as I did, get both!)


----------



## jlbrach

May i ask one who knows,what is the best way to burn the LC in?any suggestions?....can it simply be left plugged in and on or do i have to have music play through it?


----------



## Shini44

jlbrach said:


> May i ask one who knows,what is the best way to burn the LC in?any suggestions?....can it simply be left plugged in and on or do i have to have music play through it?


 
 what i am doing is: ipad left on with a charger + LC on low gain , volume pot 11-12 clock , music on (album repeat) 
  
 and will leave it like this till it complete 150 hours
  
  
 no headphones need  to be plugged in, so the burn in covers the whole amp, not just SE or Balanced. 
  
 make sure the auto shut down is off on the ipad.


----------



## defbear

Some posters seem to feel that Dr. Alex or Cavalli Audio ' s reputation has been wounded in some way. Bah! Except for a relatively short delay, the amps have been delivered and have outperformed everyone's expectations. Are there any undelivered stragglers? Most of the blame can rest on Fedex. So Alex has had to suffer through delivery delays and doing some repair on some naughty amps. Par for the course. Big deal! So I am now looking at all Cavalli Audio products. I bet everyone else here has at least had a peek. I'm up for the next project.


----------



## faran

defbear said:


> Some posters seem to feel that Dr. Alex or Cavalli Audio ' s reputation has been wounded in some way. Bah! Except for a relatively short delay, the amps have been delivered and have outperformed everyone's expectations. Are there any undelivered stragglers? Most of the blame can rest on Fedex. So Alex has had to suffer through delivery delays and doing some repair on some naughty amps. Par for the course. Big deal! So I am now looking at all Cavalli Audio products. I bet everyone else here has at least had a peek. I'm up for the next project.




No way has his reputation been wounded in my eyes. I feel privileged to have one and can't wait for his portable to be released.


----------



## doctorjazz

I checked out the site out of curiosity as well, seems the only thing not soils out at the moment is the $4k Liquid Gold, a bit rich for my blood atm.


----------



## Cardiiiii

doctorjazz said:


> I checked out the site out of curiosity as well, seems the only thing not soils out at the moment is the $4k Liquid Gold, a bit rich for my blood atm.




Thank god its a lot more expensive when compared to the LC. If it was only a bit more you'll always end up convincing yourself you need to upgrade. Like how I'm convincing myself right now I need to upgrade to an Ether/Ether C because my LCD2 is heavy all of a sudden. FML.


----------



## Youth

doctorjazz said:


> I checked out the site out of curiosity as well, seems the only thing not soils out at the moment is the $4k Liquid Gold, a bit rich for my blood atm.


 
  
 I would rather buy Crimson or Glass I think.


----------



## jarnopp

shini44 said:


> what i am doing is: ipad left on with a charger + LC on low gain , volume pot 11-12 clock , music on (album repeat)
> 
> and will leave it like this till it complete 150 hours
> 
> ...




I did a similar thing, but left headphones plugged in balanced and also used the 3x gain setting, thinking more of the amp would be used. Completed 150 hours and it's sounding great...really seemed to improve most after about 100 hours, but that could more be my brain.


----------



## doctorjazz

youth said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I checked out the site out of curiosity as well, seems the only thing not soils out at the moment is the $4k Liquid Gold, a bit rich for my blood atm.
> ...




From looking at the site, everything else is sold out, you'd need to find a used one.


----------



## zachawry

Crimson available on Mrspeakers store.


----------



## doctorjazz

Cool, it's only $2,850...


----------



## zachawry

doctorjazz said:


> Cool, it's only $2,850...


 

 If we lived in a civillized world, I'd be able to sell a kidney and get a Crimson and Ether C, at least.


----------



## doctorjazz

True dat, and if it was a bit less civilized, you could be selling someone else's...


----------



## zachawry

doctorjazz said:


> True dat, and if it was a bit less civilized, you could be selling someone else's...


 

 Made me laugh out loud. Gotta admit, that sounds preferable to selling my own.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

jlbrach said:


> May i ask one who knows,what is the best way to burn the LC in?any suggestions?....can it simply be left plugged in and on or do i have to have music play through it?


 
  
 Play music, unplug headphones.  As per Alex.  I believe its in the pdf manual....


----------



## m0nster

I know you luck LC owners get that a lot. But I have been reading in that thread for a while now and would absolutely love to own one. So if anyone is looking to sell his to a fellow head-fier from EU shoot me a message 
Otherwise enjoy your great great gear!


----------



## purk

I don





buttuglyjeff said:


> Play music, unplug headphones.  As per Alex.  I believe its in the pdf manual....


i doubt leaving a headphones plug in would hurt the burn in either.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

purk said:


> I don
> i doubt leaving a headphones plug in would hurt the burn in either.


 
  
 I'm sure you're right.  But I bet that the good Dr. didn't want to deal with blown transducers of an HD800 or HE1000 or LCD-3, if the Liquid Carbon were to fail "dramatically"....


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm sure you're right.  But I bet that the good Dr. didn't want to deal with blown transducers of an HD800 or HE1000 or LCD-3, if the Liquid Carbon were to fail "dramatically"....




Exactly.


----------



## Maconi

I originally had one of the last 20 units, but since they were delayed for so long Cavalli offered me another amp (serial number in the 300's). They said they inspected it before they shipped it. By the time I received it I had already decided to go with another amp instead so I immediately sold it without opening it.
  
 Now the user who bought it from me is saying there is massive channel imbalance and after speaking to Cavalli they agree that the amp has an issue (they say a few other amps have had similar issues so they know what to fix already). So now the user has to send it back and wait to get the amp back. I'm curious as to why that wasn't noticed when they supposedly inspected it?
  
 Anyway, I know none of this is technically Cavalli's fault but IMO he should never deal with this manufacturer again. He should either find a new one or stick to making amps in-house. All conjecture at this point though.


----------



## jarnopp

maconi said:


> I originally had one of the last 20 units, but since they were delayed for so long Cavalli offered me another amp (serial number in the 300's). They said they inspected it before they shipped it. By the time I received it I had already decided to go with another amp instead so I immediately sold it without opening it.
> 
> Now the user who bought it from me is saying there is massive channel imbalance and after speaking to Cavalli they agree that the amp has an issue (they say a few other amps have had similar issues so they know what to fix already). So now the user has to send it back and wait to get the amp back. I'm curious as to why that wasn't noticed when they supposedly inspected it?
> 
> Anyway, I know none of this is technically Cavalli's fault but IMO he should never deal with this manufacturer again. He should either find a new one or stick to making amps in-house. All conjecture at this point though.




I had one of these problem units. The imbalance/distortion did not develop until several hours into burn in, so it's likely the unit was inspected fine at the time, and the problem revealed itself later. Good news is that the repaired unit sound ds great at 200 hours, and seems to be improving still.


----------



## Peridot

maconi said:


> I originally had one of the last 20 units, but since they were delayed for so long Cavalli offered me another amp (serial number in the 300's). They said they inspected it before they shipped it. By the time I received it I had already decided to go with another amp instead so I immediately sold it without opening it.
> 
> Now the user who bought it from me is saying there is massive channel imbalance and after speaking to Cavalli they agree that the amp has an issue (they say a few other amps have had similar issues so they know what to fix already). So now the user has to send it back and wait to get the amp back. I'm curious as to why that wasn't noticed when they supposedly inspected it?
> 
> Anyway, I know none of this is technically Cavalli's fault but IMO he should never deal with this manufacturer again. He should either find a new one or stick to making amps in-house. All conjecture at this point though.


 
  
 It's upsetting when this happens in a private sale. I had it recently with a DAC I sold on unopened. The buyer found a tiny blemish on the front panel and rejected it, which meant a lot of wasted postage costs on both sides.
  
 I think Cavalli has made fairly clear that he will be having no more dealings with this manufacturer. In fact, I wonder whether his recent silence on the matter might indicate that the relationship is now in the hands of lawyers.
  
 I just hope that we don't suffer any longer term reliability problems with the 'good' amps. I've got to the stage where I'd miss mine badly if I had to return it for any repair


----------



## Jozurr

maconi said:


> I originally had one of the last 20 units, but since they were delayed for so long Cavalli offered me another amp (serial number in the 300's). They said they inspected it before they shipped it. By the time I received it I had already decided to go with another amp instead so I immediately sold it without opening it.
> 
> Now the user who bought it from me is saying there is massive channel imbalance and after speaking to Cavalli they agree that the amp has an issue (they say a few other amps have had similar issues so they know what to fix already). So now the user has to send it back and wait to get the amp back. I'm curious as to why that wasn't noticed when they supposedly inspected it?
> 
> Anyway, I know none of this is technically Cavalli's fault but IMO he should never deal with this manufacturer again. He should either find a new one or stick to making amps in-house. All conjecture at this point though.


 
  
 I have one of those amps with distortion on the volume knob. I e-mailed Alex and he promised to cover shipping both ways. He received the amp and has fixed it and I'm waiting for it to be sent back to me. Once I receive the amp, I'll burn it in again and see if the problem has gone away completely.


----------



## Youth

How do I find out if I have channel imbalance or distortion? I'm only able to use it single ended so I can't test it balanced yet. With 3x gain I hear the music very slightly with the volume on zero. With 1x gain I hear nothing on zero though.


----------



## m usicguy

I have one of the last to be sent out.  MY Serial number is 325.  My orignal order was 482 I think. 
  
 I have been running my amp no stop from januray 8th.  Balanced only on 3x gain.  I do not have any issue with my amp.
  
 I have tried SE and it sounds blanced and really good also.
  
 With Alpha primes and HE560's.
  
 I was one of the people who got the email for a replacement inspected by cavalli audio.  So far so good!!
  
 musicguy


----------



## doctorjazz

youth said:


> How do I find out if I have channel imbalance or distortion? I'm only able to use it single ended so I can't test it balanced yet. With 3x gain I hear the music very slightly with the volume on zero. With 1x gain I hear nothing on zero though.



I'd put this in the "if it sounds good, it is good" category. If I think there is a channel imbalance, I usually will listen to something mono-if the signal is off to one side or another, something could be off (mono should image dead center for all instruments/vocals). 
This helpful post by Joe Bloggs has a more scientific way to evaluate this, I've downloaded the software, but haven't tried it myself (he was responding to by bellyaching about a ciem that has given me channel balance problems on The Discovery Thread). 




Joe Bloggs

Sponsor: FiiO
His Porta Corda walked the Green Mile.


offline
8,340 Posts. Joined 10/2001
Location: Hong Kong


 You just need to pick up Sinegen and run sine sweeps with the CIEMs in your ear. Beats any external measurement system every time. Picks up your own fit issues as well as driver problems. (of course, the two would get conflated in the output, but fiddling with the fit yourself quickly rules out #1)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bp4dwqfv1qtdx38/SineGen.zip?dl=0
Edited by Joe Bloggs - Yesterday at 12:10 am


----------



## rocketron

I also have channel imbalance . There is also a slight hum on no volume. Tried four pair of headphones and all the same
Will contact Cavalli and see what they say?
This is after 50-60?hours burn in. Wasn't there at the start.
Bummer this as really started to sound good.


----------



## rocketron

Man that was quick. Just got email from Alex at Cavalli in under ten minutes. Talk about customer service. These guys could teach a lot of British company's a thing or two about keeping there customers happy.


----------



## Hansotek

youth said:


> How do I find out if I have channel imbalance or distortion? I'm only able to use it single ended so I can't test it balanced yet. With 3x gain I hear the music very slightly with the volume on zero. With 1x gain I hear nothing on zero though.


 
  
 Unless the volume of your left and right channels are way off it's unlikely that you have a channel imbalance.
  
 It's not abnormal to hear some volume with the knob at zero with 3x gain on. IIRC, I believe the volume level at "0" with 3x gain active would be about 63db below full-blown source volume. It may help you to think of the volume knob as _turning your source down_ as you turn from *right to left. *
  
 If I understand correctly, the volume range goes something like this:
  
 1X (no gain)
 -78db from source volume* TO* about 98% of your source's volume output.
  
 3X (+15db gain boost applied)
 -63db from source volume *TO* about 98% of your source's output plus 15db.


----------



## jlbrach

I am the the buyer of Maconi's unopened LC....I do not blame Maconi he is a gentleman and Cavalli responded immediately to the situation and the amp is on the way back to him .......to describe the problem, when i listened to my balanced cans through the LC the sound was primarily coming through the right channel with the left channel barely audible and the music sounded completely off...it was as if i was only hearing a portion of the music and it was simply out of phase or balance being the best way to describe it....I went back and forth between the LC and the mojo without the LC and it was like night and day with the LC impossible to listen to.....immediately it was apparent there was something wrong and after i exhausted every possibility of cable or source or power cord issues i contacted Cavalli and hopefully when it is returned to me all is well......it is however quite frustrating


----------



## grizzlybeast

Wow these units are having tons of issues. 
  
 When I got mine it had distortion like white noise playing. I sent it back to get fixed and it sounded great. Then last night when I went to listen to music, apart from me even considering if there is channel imbalance I am getting this distortion throughout my unit. It sounds pretty bad. I am currently asking for a refund because I do not want to ship it back again if it messes up. I just want my funds back.


----------



## ambrose1985

grizzlybeast said:


> Wow these units are having tons of issues.
> 
> When I got mine it had distortion like white noise playing. I sent it back to get fixed and it sounded great. Then last night when I went to listen to music, apart from me even considering if there is channel imbalance I am getting this distortion throughout my unit. It sounds pretty bad. I am currently asking for a refund because I do not want to ship it back again if it messes up. I just want my funds back.


 

 Have you emailed Alex ? Are they ok with it ?


----------



## conquerator2

Meanwhile, back to waiting


----------



## warrenpchi

Hi everybody!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 
I know it’s been a while, but I wanted to circle back and update you guys on the Liquid Carbon.  Specifically, I wanted to touch on the issues that some of you have experienced, as well as what we’re doing on our end to fix them.
 
Dr. Cavalli has been cataloging the various issues encountered during the servicing of Liquid Carbon units, and we now have a pretty good idea of exactly what those are.  
 
Approximately 50% of the issues are due to failed potentiometers.  Approximately another 40% of the issues are due to failed resistors.  And the remaining 10% are due to some kind of PCB failure or another.  This is why most of the issues break down into either channel imbalance or distortion (particularly in one channel or another).
 
Luckily, these issues aren't widespread, and now that we know what’s going on with these units, we’ve been able to repair them at a fairly rapid pace, which is why many of you are getting them back so quickly.
 
That said, we’re sorry that any of you had to deal with these issues at all.  But we’re now highly confident that all Liquid Carbon owners (of which I am proud to be one) can look forward to years of trouble-free service.
 
And on the odd chance that something does happen, we’ll will be right here for you.  In fact, we’ll be making an announcement shortly that should put any and all lingering concerns to rest.
 
Thanks for being so patient and understanding everybody!


----------



## x RELIC x

Thanks for the update Warren!


----------



## warrenpchi

x relic x said:


> Thanks for the update Warren!


 

 Totally welcome of course!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


warrenpchi said:


> In fact, we’ll be making an announcement shortly that should put any and all lingering concerns to rest.


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty


----------



## m0nster

warrenpchi said:


> [COLOR=454545]Hi everybody!   [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the outstanding service and a big thanks ofr that awesome device! I'm regularly floating in music! 

Have a great time


----------



## x RELIC x

warrenpchi said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty




Completely unprecedented and very assuring and welcomed!! 

My hats off to the Cavalli Audio team, and especially Dr. Alex Cavalli for the Liqud Carbon in the first place.... Thank you.


----------



## Youth

warrenpchi said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty


 
  
 Amazing


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

For someone that's doing the slow burn in (less then 40 hours in), this is very reassuring.  Thanks Alex and Warren for proving this amp was more then worth the wait...


----------



## jlbrach

very reassuring,more manufacturers should do the same!As a new owner of a LC that was broken and repaired it gives me great confidence in Cavalli products going forward1


----------



## runeight

Hello folks. As you all know, I've been pretty quiet lately, fixing the few Carbons with problems, figuring out what the various problems are, and lying low until we were able to announce Warren. Yay.
  
 I'm very happy to see that you guys have enjoying the amps. We stand by them.
  
 But, if you have any questions I'm happy to try to answer.


----------



## zachawry

So if I sell my Carbon, for, say, a a Crimson, the new owner will only have a warranty from 1 year of my original purchase?


----------



## warrenpchi

zachawry said:


> So if I sell my Carbon, for, say, a a Crimson, the new owner will only have a warranty from 1 year of my original purchase?


 

 If the new owner requests so, and provides me with information regarding the change in title for the Carbon, I would be happy to transfer the warranty to him/her.


----------



## Hachiroku

Wait, I've also read the other thread, so the lifetime warranty only applies to original owners ? And if it's transfered, do you get only 1 year of warranty ? Sorry, I'm a bit confused


----------



## buke9

hachiroku said:


> Wait, I've also read the other thread, so the lifetime warranty only applies to original owners ? And if it's transfered, do you get only 1 year of warranty ? Sorry, I'm a bit confused


 
 The Liquid Carbon now has a lifetime warranty so I would guess that is the warranty that would be transfered.


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote:


hachiroku said:


> Wait, I've also read the other thread, so the lifetime warranty only applies to original owners ? And if it's transfered, do you get only 1 year of warranty ? Sorry, I'm a bit confused


 
  
 It applies to original owners by default, because we know who they are/were.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Subsequent owners will need to contact me so that I know who to transfer the warranty from/to.
  


buke9 said:


> The Liquid Carbon now has a lifetime warranty so I would guess that is the warranty that would be transfered.


 
  
 Yes, pretty much, though again it would be upon request and notification of change of ownership.


----------



## x RELIC x

Basically Cavalli Audio isn't going to be chasing down second hand owners for warranty transfer so the responsibility is on the seller and/or buyer to inform Cavalli Audio of the ownership transfer, after which the lifetime warranty will be transferred to the new owner.


----------



## Hachiroku

Wow, that is just a whole new level of customer satisfaction! Thank you for the clarification as well, I will definitely look up the website for contact details as soon as I gather the documents.
  
 Edit: x Relic x, of course, this already is a privilege offered by the manufacturer !


----------



## x RELIC x

hachiroku said:


> *Wow, that is just a whole new level of customer satisfaction! *Thank you for the clarification as well, I will definitely look up the website for contact details as soon as I gather the documents.




Yes it is! Actually makes me never want to sell mine, knowing I'm in such good hands. lol!


----------



## jamato8

While using the LC single ended does anyone have a hum? It is a little higher frequency than a standard 60hz. I do not notice it on balanced but today, for the first time, I tried the amp in SE and I get the hum. I isolated it to the amp. It is not sitting on anything that would put out a field and I have the LC plugged into my balanced power supply, which is extremely quiet as it uses a huge toroid specifically made for this purpose.


----------



## x RELIC x

I also get a hum in SE, but I thought it was the ground loop that I also hear on the HA-1 with sensitive IEMs. Doesn't change with volume.


----------



## jamato8

x relic x said:


> I also get a hum in SE, but I thought it was the ground loop that I also hear on the HA-1 with sensitive IEMs. Doesn't change with volume.


 

 No, it doesn't change with volume, which would be from input rather than from the amp. So it appears the LC has something they need to work out on the board for hum that it is picking up from the conversion from AC to DC.


----------



## purk

x relic x said:


> I also get a hum in SE, but I thought it was the ground loop that I also hear on the HA-1 with sensitive IEMs. Doesn't change with volume.


 
 I had this same problem as well.  I can't use IEMs on the single-end output but mine already enroute to Alex to get the imbalance issues addressed.


----------



## zachawry

x relic x said:


> Basically Cavalli Audio isn't going to be chasing down second hand owners for warranty transfer so the responsibility is on the seller and/or buyer to inform Cavalli Audio of the ownership transfer, after which the lifetime warranty will be transferred to the new owner.


 

 Then why not just say that the unit has permanent warranty for its current owner, whomever that may be? I think that would be easier for everybody, Cavalli Audio included. 
  
 Are they just dead-set against offering warranties for any units that might conceivably be stolen? Aside from that, why bother with the notifications? 
  
 (Not that it matters, really, just being nitpicky.)


----------



## coastal1

zachawry said:


> Then why not just say that the unit has permanent warranty for its current owner, whomever that may be? I think that would be easier for everybody, Cavalli Audio included.
> 
> Are they just dead-set against offering warranties for any units that might conceivably be stolen? Aside from that, why bother with the notifications?
> 
> (Not that it matters, really, just being nitpicky.)




It's a pretty remarkable warranty, and possibly unprecedented in the amp world or maybe even electronic world. But it can't be completely unlimited (e.g., damage caused by the user via shipping or otherwise). If someone sells an LC in purported perfect working condition at market value and the buyer quickly tries to invoke the warranty, that should raise eyebrows as something that might be a user created problem and something that Cavalli may not be obligated to fix.

There's only 500 of these and people love them so there aren't going to be an impossible number of sales to monitor.


----------



## doctorjazz

Isn't it similar to the Koss warrantee? Which is one of a kind up until now...


----------



## cbar

jamato8 said:


> While using the LC single ended does anyone have a hum? It is a little higher frequency than a standard 60hz. I do not notice it on balanced but today, for the first time, I tried the amp in SE and I get the hum. I isolated it to the amp. It is not sitting on anything that would put out a field and I have the LC plugged into my balanced power supply, which is extremely quiet as it uses a huge toroid specifically made for this purpose.


 
  
 FWIW, I've only been using SE so far and it's been dead quiet.


----------



## westermac

runeight said:


> Hello folks. As you all know, I've been pretty quiet lately, fixing the few Carbons with problems, figuring out what the various problems are, and lying low until we were able to announce Warren. Yay.
> 
> I'm very happy to see that you guys have enjoying the amps. We stand by them.
> 
> But, if you have any questions I'm happy to try to answer.


 

 There was a fellow (early in the impressions thread I believe) who ran into trouble when he plugged something into the SE output (a 1/4" to XLR adapter I believe) while the unit was powered on his headphones were plugged in to the 4-pin balanced output. Is it hazardous to have headphones plugged into balanced and SE output simultaneously, or did this customer have a faulty LC?  I have a LC on the way, and while I plan on mainly using balanced I will be using the SE input, and don't want to fry anything!
  
 Thanks for your fantastic support


----------



## Shawnb

x relic x said:


> Yes it is! Actually makes me never want to sell mine, knowing I'm in such good hands. lol!


 
  
  
 Only way I'll sell mine is to upgrade to the Gold, even then it would be hard to part with mine.


----------



## jamato8

westermac said:


> There was a fellow (early in the impressions thread I believe) who ran into trouble when he plugged something into the SE input (a 1/4" to XLR adapter I believe) while the unit was powered on his headphones were plugged in to the 4-pin balanced input. Is it hazardous to have headphones plugged into balanced and SE inputs simultaneously, or did this customer have a faulty LC?  I have a LC on the way, and while I plan on mainly using balanced I will be using the SE input, and don't want to fry anything!
> 
> Thanks for your fantastic support


 

 Yes, he plugged both balanced and SE in and it fried something. It would pull more current on part of the circuit, which most likely caused it to heat up and the component to die an early death. 
  
 I guess I need to send mine back in to cure the hum.


----------



## bearFNF

Mine has slight hum from the SE output, this with balanced input. It gets better when I also hook up the SE input, but does not go away completely. 

I just realised I have not tried it with only SE input. Need to unhook the balanced input and see what happens to the hum. Will try it tonight after work.


----------



## Viper2005

Mine has a hum out of the SE output as well, and its present whether I use the balanced or SE inputs, but only after 45 mins of it being powered on. The hum isn't present on the Balanced output. The hum seems to build up over time so I didn't notice it immediately after a cold start.


----------



## nudd

Hmm, I have no hum in balanced input to balanced output, but when I used the balanced input with SE output, there is a buzzing sound that changes with volume.
  
 When I use the SE input, there is no hum present when using the SE output.
  
 Not sure why the buzz is present when going balanced -> SE, but no buzz when going SE -> SE.
  
 This is from a using a Geek Pulse Infinity as source.


----------



## ieffsmale

cbar said:


> FWIW, I've only been using SE so far and it's been dead quiet.


 

 cbar,
  
 Are you using SE for both input and output?


----------



## cbar

ieffsmale said:


> cbar,
> 
> Are you using SE for both input and output?


 
 Yes, SE input and output.


----------



## ieffsmale

cbar said:


> Yes, SE input and output.


 

 Good deal, thanks for that info.
  
 I am burning mine in now using the balanced inputs and no headphones, but will be experimenting with both balanced and SE once she's up and running.


----------



## coastal1

At the risk of opening a can of worms, any recommendations on short (1 foot or less ) RCA interconnects or any brands to avoid?  Currently using Blue Jeans RCA cables that I like but are a little too long and stiff/heavy for use with the light LC and ifi Micro as DAC.  Looks like plenty of options on Amazon under $40 so that's one possible price point, but open to being convinced to with a cheap Monoprice or something more expensive as I've never tried to see if I can hear the difference in RCAs.


----------



## shultzee

coastal1 said:


> At the risk of opening a can of worms, any recommendations on short (1 foot or less ) RCA interconnects or any brands to avoid?  Currently using Blue Jeans RCA cables that I like but are a little too long and stiff/heavy for use with the light LC and ifi Micro as DAC.  Looks like plenty of options on Amazon under $40 so that's one possible price point, but open to being convinced to with a cheap Monoprice or something more expensive as I've never tried to see if I can hear the difference in RCAs.


 

 I have kimber Kables but here are some other options  http://www.audioadvisor.com/RCA/products/394/


----------



## Cardiiiii

I think Chords nee C Line interconnect keep getting good reviews. Maybe check those out.


----------



## aamefford

I'm using Kimber PBJ's, mostly 'cause @MattTCG was selling some and I needed a 1/2 m and 1 m pair. They are nice quality and seem to sound just fine. I used to use mono price or random what ever was at hand. Most of the time those sound fine as well.


----------



## Odin412

coastal1 said:


> At the risk of opening a can of worms, any recommendations on short (1 foot or less ) RCA interconnects or any brands to avoid?  Currently using Blue Jeans RCA cables that I like but are a little too long and stiff/heavy for use with the light LC and ifi Micro as DAC.  Looks like plenty of options on Amazon under $40 so that's one possible price point, but open to being convinced to with a cheap Monoprice or something more expensive as I've never tried to see if I can hear the difference in RCAs.


 
 I use monoprice.com. Works well. And cheap!


----------



## inthere

Is Liquid Glass a noticeable improvement over Liquid Carbon?


----------



## doctorjazz

And, is Liquid Gold a sizable improvement over Liquid Glass or Crimson?
(haven't heard the Glass, but I'd be shocked if it doesn't or perform the LC).


----------



## sheldaze

I heard the below at a meet using an Ether headphone. An Yggdrasil was fed into the Glass and Crimson. An AURALiC VEGA was fed into the Carbon.
  
 According to my ears: Glass > Crimson > Carbon
  
 According to what I read in the Crimson thread: Gold > Crimson


----------



## reddog

doctorjazz said:


> And, is Liquid Gold a sizable improvement over Liquid Glass or Crimson?
> (haven't heard the Glass, but I'd be shocked if it doesn't or perform the LC).



My Liquid Glass easily out performs the Liquid Carbon. I very much want to try out a Liquid Gold, to compare to other amps in my collection. 
.


----------



## aamefford

I reached pretty far for the Crimson, and I do love it.  The LAu is a bit beyond my reach for the foreseeable future.  The Glass has too danged many tubes...  The Crimson has about the right number of tubes for me to deal with, and sounds wonderful.  I look forward to hearing the liquid Gold with familiar headphones one of these days...


----------



## mandrake50

jamato8 said:


> While using the LC single ended does anyone have a hum? It is a little higher frequency than a standard 60hz. I do not notice it on balanced but today, for the first time, I tried the amp in SE and I get the hum. I isolated it to the amp. It is not sitting on anything that would put out a field and I have the LC plugged into my balanced power supply, which is extremely quiet as it uses a huge toroid specifically made for this purpose.


 
 I mentioned this earlier, but maybe it is worth repeating. I had a small bit of noise on SE, though it did change with volume control position. I am using the balanced inputs from a Pulse Infinity. As a test, I plugged in the SE output from the Pulse. When selecting the SE input I heard no, absolutely zero, noise on the SE out. I switched back to the Balanced inputs and the noise was gone  just as with the SE inputs. I unplugged the SE connection to the DAC and the noise was back. Just connecting one of the SE cables between the Pulse and LC also removed the noise. My conclusion is that the noise, in my case, is caused by a grounding issue. It may be worth trying some ground bonding between your DAC and the LC if having noise problems.
  
 Please note, the noise I was hearing was more of a white noise than a hum. I really only started hearing it at volume pot settings that would be way to high for any IEM. I never heard it with music playing. BTW, I tested with both low and high gain. With the SE out/in connected I could hear no noise with even maxed out settings and using fairly sensitive IEMs.


----------



## pippen99

mandrake50 said:


> I mentioned this earlier, but maybe it is worth repeating. I had a small bit of noise on SE, though it did change with volume control position. I am using the balanced inputs from a Pulse Infinity. As a test, I plugged in the SE output from the Pulse. When selecting the SE input I heard no, absolutely zero, noise on the SE out. I switched back to the Balanced inputs and the noise was gone  just as with the SE inputs. I unplugged the SE connection to the DAC and the noise was back. Just connecting one of the SE cables between the Pulse and LC also removed the noise. My conclusion is that the noise, in my case, is caused by a grounding issue. It may be worth trying some ground bonding between your DAC and the LC if having noise problems.
> 
> Please note, the noise I was hearing was more of a white noise than a hum. I really only started hearing it at volume pot settings that would be way to high for any IEM. I never heard it with music playing. BTW, I tested with both low and high gain. With the SE out/in connected I could hear no noise with even maxed out settings and using fairly sensitive IEMs.


 
 The above is my experience exactly. I receive my LC in November in the first batch.  I had already had my balanced cables for my DAC and headphones.  I never used the SE output until I received a HEX loaner this week.  I found that I had a buzz that increased as the volume pot was turned.  Connecting the SE outputs to the LC effectively removed the buzz.  Is the DAC to blame or the LC?


----------



## mandrake50

pippen99 said:


> The above is my experience exactly. I receive my LC in November in the first batch.  I had already had my balanced cables for my DAC and headphones.  I never used the SE output until I received a HEX loaner this week.  I found that I had a buzz that increased as the volume pot was turned.  Connecting the SE outputs to the LC effectively removed the buzz.  Is the DAC to blame or the LC?


 

 I think that the Cavalli LC does not connect the ground and shield or the shell of the balanced connector  to chassis ground. I haven't verified this, but if true would explain the change when using the SE  connector outer ground to connect chassis between the DAC and amp. There was a discussion of this in a different context earlier in the thread, but I can not easily find it now.
  
 Fault, I am not sure there is blame to be placed. Perhaps simply a design choice, but I breaking the grounding between the shell/shield and the chassis  on the LC seems to be a factor.


----------



## fengwei007

I wonder if any of you guys encountered any auto shut off due to overheat? I got my he1000 two days ago, have been pairing them together ever since. Great sounding combo. The LC seems to have more than enough juice for the HE1000 even at low gain setting. 

Yesterday I played some high dynamic music, which I felt the sound level at 12 clock is a bit low. So I pushed in the high/low gain button. The volume increased quite a bit, I had to turn the volume dial back to 10-11 o'clock. But after a while the amp just shut off (all lights off, no sound out), then auto on again because the power button is still down. Then just keep off/on until not on anymore. I had to push the power button to off it, then on again. But same thing happened again after a while. With low gain, it never happened so far. I have been using it together w hd800, never need to use high gain, so I didn't have this problem until yesterday. 

Now I have to stick to low gain. To increase volume, I turn on the buffer stage on the hifiman dock1 dock (I use hm901s and hm650 as sources together with the dock1). This way I don't need to use high gain. But still, I'm a bit worried about this.

Both my hd800 and he1000 have balanced cables. The LC gets pretty hot after some use. But I didn't expect this would happen...

Just wonder if someone else here also encountered this problem.


----------



## XenHeadFi

fengwei007 said:


> I wonder if any of you guys encountered any auto shut off due to overheat? I got my he1000 two days ago, have been pairing them together ever since. Great sounding combo. The LC seems to have more than enough juice for the HE1000 even at low gain setting.
> 
> Yesterday I played some high dynamic music, which I felt the sound level at 12 clock is a bit low. So I pushed in the high/low gain button. The volume increased quite a bit, I had to turn the volume dial back to 10-11 o'clock. But after a while the amp just shut off (all lights off, no sound out), then auto on again because the power button is still down. Then just keep off/on until not on anymore. I had to push the power button to off it, then on again. But same thing happened again after a while. With low gain, it never happened so far. I have been using it together w hd800, never need to use high gain, so I didn't have this problem until yesterday.
> 
> ...


 
 That does not sound normal. I have HE560's (balanced) which are supposedly harder to drive than the HE1k. On 1x gain, I listen at lower than at 11. At 3x, 11 is uncomfortably loud to me. At my normal listening levels, my Carbon is warm to the touch (~33 C) which is cooler than my Gumby's operating temperature!
  
 I would definitely contact Cavalli about your issue.


----------



## ambrose1985

also, can I check is it normal that I still hear a very soft playing of the music even when the volume pot is turned to the softest ? 
  
 using IEM (westone w60), btw.


----------



## bearFNF

I here that, also.


ambrose1985 said:


> also, can I check is it normal that I still hear a very soft playing of the music even when the volume pot is turned to the softest ?
> 
> using IEM (westone w60), btw.


----------



## fengwei007

xenheadfi said:


> That does not sound normal. I have HE560's (balanced) which are supposedly harder to drive than the HE1k. On 1x gain, I listen at lower than at 11. At 3x, 11 is uncomfortably loud to me. At my normal listening levels, my Carbon is warm to the touch (~33 C) which is cooler than my Gumby's operating temperature!
> 
> I would definitely contact Cavalli about your issue.




Thanks for sharing this. I live in Singapore where the temperature is between 24-33C most time. Although we turn on air conditioner when we sleep, we normally set the temperature at 25 or higher. The LC is ok to touch when set to low gain, and it's more than enough most time even for the HE1000 at low gain. It's just when playing some high dynamic musics, like some orchestra musics, I feel I like to turn the volume higher sometimes. That's when the problem happens.

Anyway, I'll contact Cavalli about this as you suggested. 

Thanks again and cheers!


----------



## XenHeadFi

ambrose1985 said:


> also, can I check is it normal that I still hear a very soft playing of the music even when the volume pot is turned to the softest ?
> 
> using IEM (westone w60), btw.


 
 Yes, small (in size) volume potentiometers (the volume knob) are not very accurate at either extreme. So depending on the specific one you have in your component, you might get some bleed through. My original Carbon had about a 1 - 7 mV bleed through at "zero" volume, which was soft (~50 dB compared to average room noise of ~40 dB). When the potentiometer went bad, I had >35 mV of bleed through (~70 dB!).
  
 The HE560 has 90 db/mW, so your IEM's will pick up the slight bleed throughs even better.


----------



## dBel84

Quote:


doctorjazz said:


> And, is Liquid Gold a sizable improvement over Liquid Glass or Crimson?
> (haven't heard the Glass, but I'd be shocked if it doesn't or perform the LC).


 
  
  


sheldaze said:


> I heard the below at a meet using an Ether headphone. An Yggdrasil was fed into the Glass and Crimson. An AURALiC VEGA was fed into the Carbon.
> 
> According to my ears: Glass > Crimson > Carbon
> 
> According to what I read in the Crimson thread: Gold > Crimson


 
  
  


aamefford said:


> I reached pretty far for the Crimson, and I do love it.  The LAu is a bit beyond my reach for the foreseeable future.  The Glass has too danged many tubes...  The Crimson has about the right number of tubes for me to deal with, and sounds wonderful.  I look forward to hearing the liquid Gold with familiar headphones one of these days...


 
  
  
 This is not one of Warren's multiquote bonanzas but rather to collect common themes and address an obvious oversight. 
  
 One thing about Alex's amps is that each are designed to meet a specific need and not some hierarchical order. That is aside from the Liquid Carbon which was designed to bring his design genius to a lower price point  - no compromise on design per se but cheaper to build and thus the cost benefit to the community. 
  
 Liquid Glass - designed for tube lovers and tube rollers. This amp could be thought of as a SET (single ended triode) amp, most of these amps use large power triodes ( or triode strapped pentodes) in order to drive any headphone efficiently. Such an amp needs a lot of attention and money focused on the power supply which has to be very well designed in order to be be quiet. This generally requires expensive chokes, good quality high voltage power transformers and some voodoo in choosing boutique capacitors and resistors etc. If an output transformer is used, there is higher cost in the quality of the output transformer. The glass was specifically designed to allow the user to hear the subtle virtues of whatever tube that is used in the amp. The buffer is designed to be "invisible" to the tube which means that the tube sees the signal and amplifies it oblivious to the load on the other end. This buffer is exceptionally transparent and has high voltage swing as well as high current capabilities meaning it is capable of managing any headphone relatively effortlessly. It allows for tiny noval tubes suddenly to become a 2A3 or 300B equivalent and the best part - it performs similar to the best SET amps out there. 
  
 Liquid Gold - this is the antithesis of the Glass, a true "balls to the wall" solid state amplifier. A slight tangent first, one of Alex's mantras has always been that amplifier design should not rely on rare unobtanium or boutique parts to produce excellent sound. Parts should be generally available from reliable sources. This doesn't mean that he uses low grade parts, it means that he chooses from mass produced products with the correct spec required for the function he requires which often equates to high grade components with low noise and distortion characteristics. The gold expresses the culmination of several years of design into a balanced amplifier which is critically regarded by many as one of the best amplifiers available on the market today. It has a liquidity to it because of another one of Alex's design preferences which is not to restrict the active components too rigidly. This allows some natural "give" producing a sense of musical involvement and not the "cold / sterile" sound for which some solid state amps are famous for eg Krell. This brings up yet another aspect of this wonderful hobby - this design philosophy is not for everyone, there are many people who want that clinical sound. We are not talking a deviation from neutral, the Gold is an exceptionally neutral amplifier, but it would not be described as cold or clinical. 
  
 It can easily be seen that asking the question, "is the Glass better or worse than the Gold?" misses the point entirely. For beer people it would be akin to asking is a Belgian better than a Porter - different beers for different occasions often for the same palate. 
  
 The Liquid Crimson is a "compromise" but it is an improvement of the original Cavalli amplifier = the Liquid Fire. This is an "embedded" hybrid but shares nothing in common with the Glass which is also a hybrid design. It should be thought of more as a single ended solid state amplifier with some tube influence. Thus unlike the Glass where the tube is the primary focus, in the Crimson, the tube functions as an integral part of the circuit and merely flavours the signal with some of the tube influence but is still, at its heart, primarily a solid state amplifier. 
  
 So where does the Carbon fit into this mix. Not unsurprisingly it borrows from design elements from the Cavalli stable but cuts the costs of the custom chassis, highly regulated power supplies for a cheaper extrusion chassis (which is still custom) , a Cavalli designed switch mode power supply which has exceptionally low noise, and high spec surface mount components which allow for automated production. In short it is exceptional value for money and provides a discrete balanced amplifier which will perform well above its selling price. It will not outperform it's stable mates for power and critical listening but will be happy playing in the sandpit. It is ultimately limited by the constraints of its design - power supply, heatsinking and current capacity of the surface mount devices. It should also be appreciated that the amp was designed to be transportable and light weight but yet pack exceptional performance, a goal I believe Alex achieved. I don't think there is a similar product available off the shelf - compact enough to toss in a backpack with an onboard power supply ( ie you don't need an additional brick), balanced design, versatile input and output options. I am not trying to sell or shill the amp because the production run is complete , just putting it out there that this is an exceptional product which meets a niche in the market. 
  
  
 Hope this helps with some of the questions and in some sense speaks to DoctorJazz's follow up post. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## heliosphann

I'm catching up on everything HF after a busy few months, and I totally missed out on the Carbons. Why isn't Cavalli producing anymore?
  
 I now want them even more since I can't get one!


----------



## ejong7

heliosphann said:


> I'm catching up on everything HF after a busy few months, and I totally missed out on the Carbons. Why isn't Cavalli producing anymore?
> 
> I now want them even more since I can't get one!


 

 I'll sell you mine. The price is just an ounce of unobtanium and a signed document stating that you'll fund at least 50% if not all of my upcoming Cavalli purchases.
  
 Jokes aside. Bug @warrenpchi enough and he might just be tempted to tell the good doctor to reconsider. And sell them at twice the price. Beg him. Bribe him. Whatever it takes my friend.


----------



## SuperU

heliosphann said:


> I'm catching up on everything HF after a busy few months, and I totally missed out on the Carbons. Why isn't Cavalli producing anymore?
> 
> I now want them even more since I can't get one!


 
 And with that, you probably have figured out why they are not selling any more... At least for now. 
  
 It is a good marketing strategy, don't you think?
  
 And they of course, might have other reasons for it, I don't know.


----------



## reddog

The Carbon was created by Dr Alex Cavalli as a thank you to use head-fiers. But because of the great praise for this amp, I hope the company does do a second run, but ar a higher price. I just hopevI have a thick wallet , when Cavalli Audio starts to show its new products. Such possibilities helps sustain me right now. Take care and hope your rigs always puts a smile on your face.


----------



## Peridot

heliosphann said:


> I'm catching up on everything HF after a busy few months, and I totally missed out on the Carbons. Why isn't Cavalli producing anymore?
> 
> I now want them even more since I can't get one!


 
  
 Well it's almost a year since this thread opened, so I don't think your "busy few months" is sufficient justification for your lack of diligence in securing a Carbon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I do know that I could never part with mine for mere money, and I suspect that other owners may feel the same.
  
 So anyone looking to obtain one needs to get creative in thinking about trades they can offer.
  
 It's probably worth mentioning that trade in body parts and living relatives is officially frowned upon by Head-Fi - so keep such offers strictly to PM


----------



## doctorjazz

Speak for yourself when it comes to money, EVERYONE HAS HIS PRICE!!!! Mine is very high, but it is there, heh heh heh


----------



## reddog

doctorjazz said:


> Speak for yourself when it comes to money, EVERYONE HAS HIS PRICE!!!! Mine is very high, but it is there, heh heh heh



Well said sir. I could be tempted to sell my Liquid Carbon or perhaps my Liquid Crimes, but the price would be too high..


----------



## m0nster

reddog said:


> Well said sir. I could be tempted to sell my Liquid Carbon or perhaps my Liquid Crimes, but the price would be too high..


 

 You should let the buyer decide if the price is too high, dear reddog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I for one would consider selling it for 5'999 USD


----------



## inthere

I recently bought a Carbon for $800 but if I didn't I'd easily pay $1199 for a new one if there was a 2nd run.


----------



## zachawry

inthere said:


> I recently bought a Carbon for $800 but if I didn't I'd easily pay $1199 for a new one if there was a 2nd run.


 

 Are they going for $800 now?!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

zachawry said:


> Are they going for $800 now?!


 
  
 I'm guessing that price is after taxes?


----------



## heliosphann

Thx for all the info guys. Guess I need to up my Hi-fi game, too much slacking! Time to redouble my efforts.

I was wanting to finally get a balanced amp and the $600—700 price point is plausible for me. Anything much more would be unlikely. Take it there's no really other comparable balanced amps to the Carbon at that original price point?


----------



## doctorjazz

RSA SR-71b, @$650, would be a good one to consider.
I have not heard the SR-71b, but it is well regarded.. I do have the RSA HR-2 and the LC, they don't have identical sound sig, but I think overall SQ is comparable. HR-2 is only single ended, though (not a big deal to me...)


----------



## inthere

zachawry said:


> inthere said:
> 
> 
> > I recently bought a Carbon for $800 but if I didn't I'd easily pay $1199 for a new one if there was a 2nd run.
> ...




No, I put "WTB" for $800 and got a few offers.


----------



## zachawry

inthere said:


> No, I put "WTB" for $800 and got a few offers.


 
  
 OK, that sounds a bit more reasonable.


----------



## DeLuX

I'd probably trade my carbon for something interesting, like some sweet multibit dac or headphones. I have the audio gd nfb 28, and even though I like the carbon better I don't feel it being night and day. Allso I wish it was a little bit bigger and more substantial


----------



## sujitsky

zachawry said:


> OK, that sounds a bit more reasonable.




Although mine came up to $850 (including EU duties and shipping costs).. So others might be in a similar boat regarding resale prices. Not selling mine for anything though


----------



## conquerator2

So I finally received my LC!
 Initial impressions [like first 5mins], pairing is HE1000, Theta DS Pro Basic II DAC [R2R] and the Breeze DI-U8 as USB transport.
 So,... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I... this is staying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 More substantial impressions later.


----------



## Evshrug

^hueh hueh hueh ^__^


----------



## conquerator2

First 5 hours of burn in - so far my only complaint is the soundstage seems a bit closed in, lacking a bit of width and breath. I am digging the bass and especially the lower midrange, which is simply phenomenal. Treble is the smoothest I've heard the HEK so far but without any significant deficits at the extreme Reserving judgment on the rest for now. Will let it burn in 
The tonality is just awesome


----------



## Hansotek

conquerator2 said:


> First 5 hours of burn in - so far my only complaint is the soundstage seems a bit closed in, lacking a bit of width and breath. I am digging the bass and especially the lower midrange, which is simply phenomenal. Treble is the smoothest I've heard the HEK so far but without any significant deficits at the extreme Reserving judgment on the rest for now. Will let it burn in
> The tonality is just awesome




Soundstage definitely improves with burn-in, my friend. More good things ahead for you!


----------



## Emerpus

For those who have the LC and wondering if the Liquid Spark is similar ... I think they sound very very close in sound signature. (Based on my listening experience with the LC which is my main amp)

Note: listened under show condition with Cayin N6 and Ether 1.1


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> First 5 hours of burn in - so far my only complaint is the soundstage seems a bit closed in, lacking a bit of width and breath. I am digging the bass and especially the lower midrange, which is simply phenomenal. Treble is the smoothest I've heard the HEK so far but without any significant deficits at the extreme Reserving judgment on the rest for now. Will let it burn in
> The tonality is just awesome



Soundstage was definitely something I felt was weird with mine out of the box, it had an off-shape to it and had a lot less frontal depth than width... But keep in mind, these amps are somewhat unique in that they had less than 10 hours (maybe less than 5?) of burn in after manufacturing. There is a DEFINITE burn-in period and noticeable change in the sound as you put the hours into it. Educational! Now the soundstage space is much more even and extended with a smoother sense of roll off to where the soundstage "ends."




emerpus said:


> For those who have the LC and wondering if the Liquid Spark is similar ... I think they sound very very close in sound signature. (Based on my listening experience with the LC which is my main amp)
> 
> Note: listened under show condition with Cayin N6 and Ether 1.1



Nice pic, I actually quite dig the purple color cast! I wish I had spent time with the earlier version prototype of the Spark at RMAF, but I confess I was more interested at the time in hearing the LC which I'd ordered and been waiting on (can you blame me?). It was also Cavalli's booth where I really stopped to get a handle on what each of the high-Fi or Summit-Fi headphones sounded like, with quick swaps of Sennheiser, Audeze, MrSpeakers, and HiFiman headphones on the same Cavalli LC + DAC (aurelic Taurus? Or something?) audio chain. Alex was SOOO kind to share the time. Please say HI to Warren (and Alex, is he there?) for me!!!

My opinion, if the Spark continues having the same DNA as the LC and LGold, the Spark may well be the obvious upgrade after the popular Objective2 amp, taking the O2's quest for transparency and value further with less distortion/noise and less coloration on reactive headphones (like Sennheiser) because of it's current-mode amplification (in addition to near-zero output impedance). Ask Warren if the Spark also has more power in reserve than the O2 design?

Hope you're having an awesome time at CanJam! Wish I could be there too!!


----------



## zachawry

Do we have a tentative price on the Spark?

I'm selling my LC, but I kinda want to keep in touch with the Cavalli sound.


----------



## Emerpus

evshrug said:


> Soundstage was definitely something I felt was weird with mine out of the box, it had an off-shape to it and had a lot less frontal depth than width... But keep in mind, these amps are somewhat unique in that they had less than 10 hours (maybe less than 5?) of burn in after manufacturing. There is a DEFINITE burn-in period and noticeable change in the sound as you put the hours into it. Educational! Now the soundstage space is much more even and extended with a smoother sense of roll off to where the soundstage "ends."
> Nice pic, I actually quite dig the purple color cast! I wish I had spent time with the earlier version prototype of the Spark at RMAF, but I confess I was more interested at the time in hearing the LC which I'd ordered and been waiting on (can you blame me?). It was also Cavalli's booth where I really stopped to get a handle on what each of the high-Fi or Summit-Fi headphones sounded like, with quick swaps of Sennheiser, Audeze, MrSpeakers, and HiFiman headphones on the same Cavalli LC + DAC (aurelic Taurus? Or something?) audio chain. Alex was SOOO kind to share the time. Please say HI to Warren (and Alex, is he there?) for me!!!
> 
> My opinion, if the Spark continues having the same DNA as the LC and LGold, the Spark may well be the obvious upgrade after the popular Objective2 amp, taking the O2's quest for transparency and value further with less distortion/noise and less coloration on reactive headphones (like Sennheiser) because of it's current-mode amplification (in addition to near-zero output impedance). Ask Warren if the Spark also has more power in reserve than the O2 design?
> ...


 
  
 The Liquid Spark that I heard was on loan to Dan ... didn't had the honor to meet Warren (don't think Alex flew in though) 

 Would love to have a chat with him about more Cavalli amps and what they are doing going forward ... but well


----------



## Emerpus

zachawry said:


> Do we have a tentative price on the Spark?
> 
> I'm selling my LC, but I kinda want to keep in touch with the Cavalli sound.


 
  
 No pricing or date yet ...


----------



## ejong7

zachawry said:


> Do we have a tentative price on the Spark?
> 
> I'm selling my LC, but I kinda want to keep in touch with the Cavalli sound.


 

 The last time it was talked about it was said to be *PREDICTED *to be under $700.


----------



## Jozurr

emerpus said:


> For those who have the LC and wondering if the Liquid Spark is similar ... I think they sound very very close in sound signature. (Based on my listening experience with the LC which is my main amp)
> 
> Note: listened under show condition with Cayin N6 and Ether 1.1


 
  
 I tried to clean my screen a few times to move that hair appearing on the spark... only to realise it's in the picture.


----------



## Emerpus

jozurr said:


> I tried to clean my screen a few times to move that hair appearing on the spark... only to realise it's in the picture.


 
  
 Lol ... just saw that hair


----------



## inthere

emerpus said:


> For those who have the LC and wondering if the Liquid Spark is similar ... I think they sound very very close in sound signature. (Based on my listening experience with the LC which is my main amp)
> 
> Note: listened under show condition with Cayin N6 and Ether 1.1


 

 Spark is better than the Mojo?


----------



## Hansotek

inthere said:


> emerpus said:
> 
> 
> > For those who have the LC and wondering if the Liquid Spark is similar ... I think they sound very very close in sound signature. (Based on my listening experience with the LC which is my main amp)
> ...




Inherently different products. Spark has no DAC, Mojo has no analog input. You could use them together, if you wanted more juice for you Mojo. Certainly with units like the HD800 and the HE1000, you'd have an extremely worthy "unplugged" setup that could easily rival multi-thousand dollar desktop setups. 

I don't think people have yet fully processed the level of fidelity a combo like this is going to achieve.


----------



## inthere

hansotek said:


> Inherently different products. Spark has no DAC, Mojo has no analog input. You could use them together, if you wanted more juice for you Mojo. Certainly with units like the HD800 and the HE1000, you'd have an extremely worthy "unplugged" setup that could easily rival multi-thousand dollar desktop setups.
> 
> I don't think people have yet fully processed the level of fidelity a combo like this is going to achieve.


 
  
  Sticking to sound quality though, how do they compare? For instance, my Cayin C5 has no DAC either, yet the Mojo is cleaner and more powerful if you're comparing quality. The Spark will serve the same purpose as my Mojo-portable audio for Ether C's. I want to know if I'll be able to ditch the Mojo for the Spark because as much as i like the idea of a killer setup of iPhone+Mojo+Spark in theory, in reality it's a PITA to find room for all 3 when traveling.


----------



## AxelCloris

inthere said:


> Sticking to sound quality though, how do they compare? For instance, my Cayin C5 has no DAC either, yet the Mojo is cleaner and more powerful if you're comparing quality. The Spark will serve the same purpose as my Mojo-portable audio for Ether C's. I want to know if I'll be able to ditch the Mojo for the Spark because as much as i like the idea of a killer setup of iPhone+Mojo+Spark in theory, in reality it's a PITA to find room for all 3 when traveling.


 

 As Hansotek mentioned they're different devices and you won't be able to simply replace the multiple roles of the Mojo with a Liquid Spark. The Mojo only has digital inputs so there's no way to use it as a dedicated amp. If you remove the Mojo from the equation and connect a Liquid Spark then you'll either be using the DAC built in to your source or using an external DAC that feeds into the LS. In this case you'd be using the iPhone's 3.5mm jack to feed the LS, meaning you'd not only be using the DAC in the phone but also the amp, double amping the signal through the LS. This is probably part of the reason the Mojo sounds cleaner and more powerful than when using your C5.
  
 As for how the Mojo sounds solo or running line out into the Liquid Spark I personally cannot say as I don't have either on-hand and I doubt many do. Alex or Warren can correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Liquid Spark was still in development, so the sound signature could potentially change from now to when it's released. I'm not sure if they've locked in the final voicing yet or not. When I heard the prototype a while back I preferred the LS to the C5, so there's that at least.


----------



## doctorjazz

I would hope the LS sounds better than the C5...my impression of the C5 is "good for the money", as it is quite inexpensive, but it has grain and is not as good sounding, to my ears, as, say, the ALO National, which own.


----------



## dBel84

To my ears LS>>LC ..dB


----------



## mscott58

Interesting. I peg it as LS ~= LC, and I've heard both multiple times. Cheers


----------



## inthere

dbel84 said:


> To my ears LS>>LC ..dB


 

 woah


----------



## buke9

Gotta check it out at CanJam SoCal.


----------



## Stillhart

I've heard folks say they like the Spark better because it sounds more like the Gold.  Thing is, it's not balanced and doesn't have the power of the Carbon.  All other things equal, one may like the sound of one better than the other, but they do serve different purposes.
  
 I suspect that if you have something easy to drive like the Ether C and combine it with the Spark and an AK player or something, you'd have a portable solution that can compete with many desktop solutions for SQ.  That Spark is quite a little beast!  Less than a month until Socal!!


----------



## buke9

stillhart said:


> I've heard folks say they like the Spark better because it sounds more like the Gold.  Thing is, it's not balanced and doesn't have the power of the Carbon.  All other things equal, one may like the sound of one better than the other, but they do serve different purposes.
> 
> I suspect that if you have something easy to drive like the Ether C and combine it with the Spark and an AK player or something, you'd have a portable solution that can compete with many desktop solutions for SQ.  That Spark is quite a little beast!  Less than a month until Socal!!


 
 Hope to see ya there.


----------



## westermac

buke9 said:


> Hope to see ya there.




I can't wait! I'll be demoing the crap out of the Cavalli booth


----------



## zachawry

Does ">>" mean greater than, as in LS is better than LC?
Or is it an arrow pointing to the LC as better?

Either way, I just sent off my LC an hour ago to pay for a MZOTL2 (couldn't bring myself to wait 7 months for a Glass), and here you are tempting me again....


----------



## m0nster

zachawry said:


> Does ">>" mean greater than, as in LS is better than LC?
> Or is it an arrow pointing to the LC as better?
> 
> Either way, I just sent off my LC an hour ago to pay for a MZOTL2 (couldn't bring myself to wait 7 months for a Glass), and here you are tempting me again....




>> generally means bigger by a big margin. Whatever that is, mathematically it's not really defined clearly. But I've seen it being used


----------



## bearFNF

In this context x>>y would mean x is much much better than y.


----------



## zachawry

bearfnf said:


> In this context x>>y would mean x is much much better than y.


 

 Thanks. Kinda obvious, I guess, but I'm a technical translator, so I'm used to thinking of every possible interpretation for a given term or phrase. You'd be surprised to find out how often the "you gotta be kidding me" interpretation is the correct one!


----------



## bearFNF

zachawry said:


> Thanks. Kinda obvious, I guess, but I'm a technical translator, so I'm used to thinking of every possible interpretation for a given term or phrase. You'd be surprised to find out how often the "you gotta be kidding me" interpretation is the correct one!


I understand, I'm an engineer and I deal with international regulations, so interpretation is part of my job, too.


----------



## RKML0007

zachawry said:


> Thanks. Kinda obvious, I guess, but I'm a technical translator, so I'm used to thinking of every possible interpretation for a given term or phrase. You'd be surprised to find out how often the "you gotta be kidding me" interpretation is the correct one!




This reminded me of a Nissan engineering manual with translation to English that explicitly states - "you have to ***** it up!" 

Does that jive zachawry with your experience as a professional Japanese translator - haha!


----------



## heliosphann

Doh! Just missed out on a brand new LC for original price. I just can't win! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Actually, about making the jump to a balanced amp. I'm running a Gustard H10/X12 combo right now. Say if I do get a LC or another good balanced amp, how much improvement will I potentially see?


----------



## KG Jag

heliosphann said:


> Doh! Just missed out on a brand new LC for original price. I just can't win!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Speaking amp to amp (I own both) only--there will be a significant improvement going to the LC.  However, I suspect that most of that is because the LC is (in balanced or unbalanced mode) a much better amp than the Gustard.  The LC beats it in a meaningful/audible way in every category, except (as I recall) amount of power to your cans.
  
 What your ears detect will depend upon, in part, your DAC (which I have not heard) and the quality of the music you feed each system.


----------



## heliosphann

kg jag said:


> Speaking amp to amp (I own both) only--there will be a significant improvement going to the LC.  However, I suspect that most of that is because the LC is (in balanced or unbalanced mode) a much better amp than the Gustard.  The LC beats it in a meaningful/audible way in every category, except (as I recall) amount of power to your cans.
> 
> What your ears detect will depend upon, in part, your DAC (which I have not heard) and the quality of the music you feed each system.


 
 Nice. Thank you for the input. Unfortunately I'm trying to whittle my setup down to the best bang for the buck now that I've got an idea of what I like. Love having a bunch of headphones and equipment around, but I really can't afford it! I'd be funny if I started selling drugs, got caught and then said it was only to support my Head-Fi habit.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Hi all, I am new in this thread. Is this amp still available? I mean did the manufacturer stop production/selling? I cant find any store even the cavalli website dont have this on product list. I am on the hunt for an amp that would pair with my HD800S on balanced, and I have noticed the Cavalli LC which I think would be perfect especially for its price. So thats the question how can I get one of these?


----------



## thomson

Only 500 made. All gone.
Only hope is a 2nd hand one...


----------



## 3ggerhappy

thomson said:


> Only 500 made. All gone.
> Only hope is a 2nd hand one...


 
  
 Ok, Thanks for the info.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

3ggerhappy said:


> Ok, Thanks for the info.


 
  
 It is possible a second run could happen.  But no guarantees, and no time frame.  Cavalli is soon to have many irons in the fire, so I'd imagine anything else like another LC run, would be quite a bit in the future...


----------



## Stillhart

Warren has hinted at a second run a few times.  With Canjam Socal coming up, who knows what big announcements that treasel has in store...


----------



## ejong7

stillhart said:


> Warren has hinted at a second run a few times.  With Canjam Socal coming up, who knows what big announcements that treasel has in store...


 

 Warren is like that over-aggressive player at the poker table (eg. Tom Dwan for people who are in), making more than often those outrageous plays (in Warren's case the trolls) but sometime he ends up having the good stuff and you lose (or in this case, your wallet).


----------



## Stillhart

ejong7 said:


> Warren is like that over-aggressive player at the poker table (eg. Tom Dwan for people who are in), making more than often those outrageous plays (in Warren's case the trolls) but sometime he ends up having the good stuff and you lose (or in this case, your wallet).


 
  
 LOL!  I've found that with Warren's troll/teases, more often than not, it's a question of WHEN not IF.  Then again, there was the whole AK DAP troll last April 1...


----------



## SupaFuzz

I'm in for a 2nd LC run even at a higher cost...


----------



## warrenpchi

Hey guys, just so y'all know, we are SERIOUSLY considering a second run of Liquid Carbons at this point.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 BTW, in case any of you are waiting for the Liquid Carbon Loyalty/Upgrade Discounts to happen... http://www.head-fi.org/t/797245/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-loyalty-upgrade-discount/105#post_12374674


----------



## Smokey636

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, just so y'all know, we are SERIOUSLY considering a second run of Liquid Carbons at this point.
> 
> [rule]
> BTW, in case any of you are waiting for the Liquid Carbon Loyalty/Upgrade Discounts to happen... http://www.head-fi.org/t/797245/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-loyalty-upgrade-discount/105#post_12374674





Put me down for one if price is the same!!!

Keith


----------



## heliosphann

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, just so y'all know, we are SERIOUSLY considering a second run of Liquid Carbons at this point.
> 
> [rule]
> BTW, in case any of you are waiting for the Liquid Carbon Loyalty/Upgrade Discounts to happen... http://www.head-fi.org/t/797245/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-loyalty-upgrade-discount/105#post_12374674




Please. Take my money now while I still have it!


----------



## SupaFuzz

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, just so y'all know, we are SERIOUSLY considering a second run of Liquid Carbons at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 YES!!


----------



## DVass13

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, just so y'all know, we are SERIOUSLY considering a second run of Liquid Carbons at this point.


 
  
 Hmmm should I get a backup LC just in case mine needs to go in for warranty in fifty years? It would be nice to have a second for however long I would be without my primary LC


----------



## DigitalFreak

warrenpchi said:


> Hey guys, just so y'all know, we are SERIOUSLY considering a second run of Liquid Carbons at this point.
> 
> [rule]
> BTW, in case any of you are waiting for the Liquid Carbon Loyalty/Upgrade Discounts to happen... http://www.head-fi.org/t/797245/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-loyalty-upgrade-discount/105#post_12374674


 Put me down for a second unit, I need something good for my bedroom. I'm also gonna need a better DAC too. My Carbon 2Qute setup in the family room has me spoiled. Any idea when the second run will commence if it ever does?


----------



## rocketron

There is one on eBay now.


----------



## Smokey636

Nice mark up on the original price! £850 plus postage.....


----------



## rocketron

I think its still a great amp at that money. What other amp can you buy with a life time warranty that can be transferred to new owner? 
I'm never selling mine. It's a little jewel.


----------



## Peridot

smokey636 said:


> Nice mark up on the original price! £850 plus postage.....


 
  
 Starting price is cost price to be fair. The higher price is a BIN option.


----------



## Smokey636

Original price was $599 bit different to £599.... Can't blame him from trying... ☺


----------



## doctorjazz

I just searched for one, sold for twice the original price...unless I misunderstood, but I think it sold for the 850 pounds. To be honest, I think you can do better if you get up that high.


----------



## ejong7

doctorjazz said:


> I just searched for one, sold for twice the original price...unless I misunderstood, but I think it sold for the 850 pounds. To be honest, I think you can do better if you get up that high.


 

 Well I got one to the UK as well so I can kinda tell whats the profit margin we talking here. For those interested:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cavalli-Audio-Liquid-Carbon-/131743074044?hash=item1eac7fc6fc:g:XfcAAOSwu1VW2Uas


----------



## Peridot

smokey636 said:


> Original price was $599 bit different to £599.... Can't blame him from trying... ☺


 
  
 Postage and import charges make the price to the UK around £600 so no trying involved. Will be interesting to see what it fetches. Certainly a bargain for anyone wanting to avail of the discount.


----------



## Chrome Robot

I would like to discourage potential buyers of used LC's from overpaying for used ones, especially in light of the fact that a new run is seemingly on the horizon and that, with a little patience, the price of a used LC will be reasonable. In addition to to the British example of ~ 600 British pounds (ok, customs fees and shipping there made it more expensive), recently someone paid over $700 for one in the US - $100 over the retail cost for used gear!!!
  
 Please show patience and restraint, wait for next run or a fairly priced used one, and do not encourage profiteering by purchasing used gear for much more than retail.


----------



## yage

chrome robot said:


> ... recently someone paid over $700 for one in the US - $100 over the retail cost for used gear!!!


 
  
 Yeah, but with the ebay fees, the seller probably only netted $620... just sayin. Capitalism at its finest!


----------



## rocketron

I wonder if the second run if there is one ? 
Will come with a life time warranty and a $600 discount off another Cavalli product. 
I doubt it some how.


----------



## Stillhart

rocketron said:


> I wonder if the second run if there is one ?
> Will come with a life time warranty and a $600 discount off another Cavalli product.
> I doubt it some how.


 
  
 If I had to guess:  it will have the warranty and if it comes with a discount it won't be the full $600.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

The discount is only good for the final runs of the Gold, Glass, Crimson and Lightning.  So once those runs close, there will be no more discounts attached to the Liquid Carbon...


----------



## bearFNF

The other thing to remember to is that the carbon might be more expensive this next run. as has been said several times.


----------



## coastal1

yage said:


> Yeah, but with the ebay fees, the seller probably only netted $620... just sayin. Capitalism at its finest!




Yeah, don't have a dog in the fight -- I love my LC and it's staying home. But wouldn't really call that profiteering especially since the seller likely paid early and waited for an unpredictable amount of time. Also not a bad deal for the buyer given how good the LC turned out, Cavallis commitment to the LC, and it being just a couple months 'old.' Also not bad for Cavalli to get a sense of market demand/value if there is a second run.


----------



## aqsw

Guys,
It's a $600.00 amp with lifetime warranty. It sounds very good. 
I have one in my office, (#83) but I can't wait to get home to listen to an amp I paid $650.00 for.
Im not getting rid of mine, but it's not like it's the best amp in he world for its price.


----------



## sling5s

aqsw said:


> Guys,
> It's a $600.00 amp with lifetime warranty. It sounds very good.
> I have one in my office, (#83) but I can't wait to get home to listen to an amp I paid $650.00 for.
> Im not getting rid of mine, but it's not like it's the best amp in he world for its price.


 

 How does it compare to your Feliks Audio Elise at home?


----------



## warrenpchi

westermac said:


> buke9 said:
> 
> 
> > Hope to see ya there.
> ...


----------



## aqsw

sling5s said:


> How does it compare to your Feliks Audio Elise at home?




Sorry guys, but In my opinion the Elise with stock tubes is better. With $100.00 proper upgrade the Elise kills the Carbon.
I am a tube guy by heart. The Carbon does have a tube "feel" to it.

JMO

LC#83
ELISE #28

P.S. I feel the dac is more important than the amp. I use Hegel Hd12 with the LC, and a Space tech tube dac with the Elise.
They are both quality dacs. Worth way more than the amps they are controlling. I feel it' comparable.


----------



## inthere

sling5s said:


> How does it compare to your Feliks Audio Elise at home?


 
  
 With stock tubes the Feliks Audio Elise has a more magical vibe, but when I turn mine up past 1:00 I get distortion on the bass. I just can't get it loud enough without distorting. 
  
  I have over 40 headphones. Every single pair of headphone I tried with the Elise gets wooly and distorted in the bass when I turn the volume past 1:00. 
  
 I'm thinking that if I change tubes i can solve the problem, but who needs the hassle? If I had the choice between the two I'd pick the Carbon without hesitation. I get the tube vibe i want if I use the Aune T1 mkII as a tube DAC.


----------



## defbear

Im working up courage to apply my LC discount on a Liquid Gold. Still, it's $3400. And I have an Audio-gd Master 11 that I just adore. Any thoughts?


----------



## inthere

My Liquid Carbon just broke I think. Getting distortion on everything at every level. It's a 2nd hand Carbon, does the warranty apply?


----------



## inthere

Umm, something very weird is happening........I have my headphones plugged into the 3.5mm output of my Liquid Carbon and I'm getting music-my Liquid Carbon isn't plugged in! It sounds great too. lol.


----------



## nudd

inthere said:


> Umm, something very weird is happening........I have my headphones plugged into the 3.5mm output of my Liquid Carbon and I'm getting music-my Liquid Carbon isn't plugged in! It sounds great too. lol.


 
  
 That's weird. The Liquid Carbon does not have a 3.5mm output ...


----------



## inthere

Mine does


----------



## x RELIC x

inthere said:


> Mine does




Those are inputs. What's going on here?!


----------



## inthere

Plug a 3.5 headphone in there, remove the power plug, and listen


----------



## ejong7

Did somene just discovered a secret 3.5mm input/output for the LC? What? I thought everything at the back was for the inputs.


----------



## inthere

My LC started distorting, I think I know what's wrong, but I can't fix it. Anyway I checked the other outputs for distortion and saw the 3.5 around back. I plugged my EL-8s in and got no distortion. So I turned off the LC because I'm about to pack it up and send it to Cavalli right? But the music is still playing out of the EL-8s even though the amp was turned off........So I say What and remove the power cable.........music is still playing LOUDLY without a power cable connected.........


----------



## ejong7

inthere said:


> My LC started distorting, I think I know what's wrong, but I can't fix it. Anyway I checked the other outputs for distortion and saw the 3.5 around back. I plugged my EL-8s in and got no distortion. So I turned off the LC because I'm about to pack it up and send it to Cavalli right? But the music is still playing out of the EL-8s even though the amp was turned off........So I say What and remove the power cable.........music is still playing LOUDLY without a power cable connected.........


 

 That is so weird. Firstly that 3.5mm is the single ended input. I'm now going on the assumption that your amp was connected to the source through the balanced inputs to have music. I'm not sure whats the exact build inside (nor am I an expert) but sounds to me like the caps are discharging so theres still music. Since its not 'turned on' per say, the music is output at its max power (either balanced max or single ended max).
  
 But that is just baseless and pointless remarks. The fact that its playing from the input is weird enough. Maybe you have the only 3.5mm output LC out there who knows.


----------



## inthere

It was connected to the source through the RCA inputs, I'm going to video the music playing without power


----------



## WCDchee

The 3.5 and RCA are probably one and the same. So you're just driving it straight from the dac.


----------



## inthere

Video of it playing without being plugged in..........


----------



## Peridot

wcdchee said:


> The 3.5 and RCA are probably one and the same. So you're just driving it straight from the dac.


 
  
 They are ... they're directly connected so anything on the RCA inputs will appear on the 3.5mm socket too.


----------



## x RELIC x

inthere said:


> It was connected to the source through the RCA inputs, I'm going to video the music playing without power




What are you hooked up to for the input? Since the 3.5mm and the RCA are the same circuit is guess you are just listening to the line level signal from your source looped through the 3.5mm. Totally guessing here......

Edit: Crosspost. Yup, just saw your video. All you're doing is hearing the DAC looped through the 3.5mm input.


----------



## Jozurr

Interesting. I never really saw that 3.5mm before. Plugged in my IEMs in the 3.5mm jack. The volume control doesn't work and the sound is very distorted. Yes it works even when the amp is turned off, but with the same level of distortion.


----------



## x RELIC x

jozurr said:


> Interesting. I never really saw that 3.5mm before. Plugged in my IEMs in the 3.5mm jack. The volume control doesn't work and the sound is very distorted. Yes it works even when the amp is turned off, but with the same level of distortion.




Because it's basically a line level output used this way and it may damage your IEMs/headphones, or your hearing.

Please, you guys shouldn't do this.


----------



## Jozurr

x relic x said:


> Because it's basically a line level output used this way and it may damage your IEMs/headphones, or your hearing.
> 
> Please, you guys shouldn't do this.




Youre right. Couldve damaged my iems if the source was too loud.

Whats more interesting is that I never knew there was a 3.5 input on the LC. So basically you can use the mojo straight out from 3.5 to 3.5 instead of 3.5 to rca as I had thought.


----------



## x RELIC x

The first thing I do is read the manual. :wink_face:


----------



## Stillhart

inthere said:


> My Liquid Carbon just broke I think. Getting distortion on everything at every level. It's a 2nd hand Carbon, does the warranty apply?


 
  
 Yes, but you have to email warren@cavalliaudio.com to transfer the warranty.
  


defbear said:


> Im working up courage to apply my LC discount on a Liquid Gold. Still, it's $3400. And I have an Audio-gd Master 11 that I just adore. Any thoughts?


 
  
 I know @zach915m has both now.  Maybe he can chime in...
  



x relic x said:


> Because it's basically a line level output used this way and it may damage your IEMs/headphones, or your hearing.
> 
> *Please, you guys shouldn't do this.*


 
  
 Agreed!  Although, I suppose that means you could use one of those two ports as a loop out (to another amp) if you wanted?


----------



## rigo

defbear said:


> Im working up courage to apply my LC discount on a Liquid Gold. Still, it's $3400. And I have an Audio-gd Master 11 that I just adore. Any thoughts?




Same here. Although I wouldn't be replacing my Master 11,but adding to a second location. Most likely utilizing the preamp with a speaker set up. Haven't decided on the purchase yet...


----------



## Stillhart

Hansotek might be able to give input too. He sold his M9 after he got the Crimson, saying it was outclassed. He's since had an opportunity to demo the LAu and it's even better than the Crimson. I don't want to put words in his mouth but I suspect the upgrade is a no brainer (and I love AGD).


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> Hansotek might be able to give input too. He sold his M9 after he got the Crimson, saying it was outclassed. He's since had an opportunity to demo the LAu and it's even better than the Crimson. I don't want to put words in his mouth but I suspect the upgrade is a no brainer (and I love AGD).



Yes the Liquid Gold is so tempting lol. I wish I had the money to justify such luxury.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Here I am using the Carbon with a UD110v2...


----------



## warrenpchi

Lol, I LOVE this thread!


----------



## Hansotek

rigo said:


> defbear said:
> 
> 
> > Im working up courage to apply my LC discount on a Liquid Gold. Still, it's $3400. And I have an Audio-gd Master 11 that I just adore. Any thoughts?
> ...


 


stillhart said:


> @Hansotek might be able to give input too. He sold his M9 after he got the Crimson, saying it was outclassed. He's since had an opportunity to demo the LAu and it's even better than the Crimson. I don't want to put words in his mouth but I suspect the upgrade is a no brainer (and I love AGD).


 
  
 More than happy to weigh in for @defbear and @rigo! Yes, I had the Master-9, which is a slightly suped-up version of the amp section that's inside the Master-11. You've got a great device there, no doubt, but if you are on the fence about the LAu and wondering if it is worth it, don't be. The Liquid Gold absolutely kicks the snot out of the Audio-GD. 
  
 The LAu feels so alive compared to the AGD. The AGD is very proficient from a technical standpoint, IMO, but it lacks magic. When you're listening to the AGD, you're listening to a great setup. When you're listening to the LAu, *you are there*.
  
 IMO, one of the most magical parts is that the soundstage on the LAu doesn't seem to have any specific shape or boarders. There is just a guy, about five feet to my right and 60 degrees from center playing guitar. Until you hear that, it is nearly impossible for me to truly explain the experience to you. There is transparent, and then there is *transparent*. There are no headphones. You are in the room with the musician. It is a highly emotional and magical feeling that you have to experience to truly know.
  
 The warmth and treble control are without equal. It is my all-time favorite amp for the HD800 and it makes the JPS Labs Abyss absolutely sing in a way you can never forget. The bass is powerful and very lifelike. Compared to the AGD M9, the LAu hits harder than a cement truck. Again, it is like being there. It is just so incredibly dynamic, fun and engaging. 
  
 As far as value goes, I had the good fortune of being able to compare it head-to-head with the $7,000 Wells Audio Headtrip for about a month, and the two are absolutely neck-and-neck. If you think the Liquid Carbon was a great value, competing with amps that cost $1,000 more, consider the fact that the LAu can hang with an amp* that costs $3,400 more*, after your discount!
  
 On a final side note: I have witnessed dozens of people try the LAu - both at the February Chicago meet, and in the month after (at my house) and I have yet to see a single person who isn't absolutely blown away by it. My favorite thing is when my non-audiophile friends try it. I always love watching that first moment when the music starts and they turn to look at me in wide-eyed shock, lol! These people have tried plenty of my other equipment, but nothing like this. It's just on another level. I get a kick out of it every time!


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> More than happy to weigh in for @defbear and @rigo! Yes, I had the Master-9, which is a slightly suped-up version of the amp section that's inside the Master-11. You've got a great device there, no doubt, but if you are on the fence about the LAu and wondering if it is worth it, don't be. The Liquid Gold absolutely kicks the snot out of the Audio-GD.
> 
> The LAu feels so alive compared to the AGD. The AGD is very proficient from a technical standpoint, IMO, but it lacks magic. When you're listening to the AGD, you're listening to a great setup. When you're listening to the LAu, *you are there*.
> 
> ...


 
  
 But how do you REALLY feel?


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> But how do you REALLY feel?


 
  
 When I sent it back to Warren yesterday, I walked out of the Fed-Ex store like this:


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> When I sent it back to Warren yesterday, I walked out of the Fed-Ex store like this:


 
  
 And when it gets there and I borrow it from him in a day or two, I'll be like this:


----------



## Hansotek

reddog said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Hansotek might be able to give input too. He sold his M9 after he got the Crimson, saying it was outclassed. He's since had an opportunity to demo the LAu and it's even better than the Crimson. I don't want to put words in his mouth but I suspect the upgrade is a no brainer (and I love AGD).
> ...




Sell your Carbon, sell your Crimson and use your discount, and boom, you have the LAu.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> And when it gets there and I borrow it from him in a day or two, I'll be like this:


 
  
 There are only 3 words that need to be expressed right now.


----------



## reddog

hansotek said:


> Sell your Carbon, sell your Crimson and use your discount, and boom, you have the LAu.



Lol thanks for waking the irrational audophile monkey sleeping on my back. Now I am TEMPTED to sell my Liquid Crimson and Carbon lol and get the LAU. I must take a cold shower, listen to badly recorded Metalica lol.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> And when it gets there and I borrow it from him in a day or two, I'll be like this:


 
  
 I can only hope @warrenpchi is going to hang around long enough to see you react to the LAu's soundstage with the HD800...


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> I can only hope @warrenpchi is going to hang around long enough to see you react to the LAu's soundstage with the HD800...


 
  
 I'm gonna be all


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> I'm gonna be all


 
  
 Bahahahaha!!!!


----------



## Youth

How does LAu compare to Carbon?


----------



## warrenpchi

youth said:


> How does LAu compare to Carbon?


 

 If you consider the elements that they are named after... well... there ya go.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually, I have a better way to put it in context.  I've said this before, but I think that the Liquid Carbon is best characterized as the offspring of a Liquid Gold and a Liquid Crimson, where 60% of it's traits are inherited from the Crimson.  The Carbon is, obviously, both less powerful and less developed than either of it's "parents."  But in terms of approximating their relative sound signatures, that's what I would say.  Of course, while the aforementioned description will make perfect sense to anybody who has heard all three, it probably won't help you as much.  But trust me when I tell you that what I just said was some deeply insightful crap.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, I was just talking to @Stillhart about this at lunch today.  He suggested putting together a specialized thread where people that have both the Carbon, and one of our premium amps, can post comparative impressions for whatever they've got.  He even offered to organize a small tour if possible.  We have a VERY limited number of units... nearly all of which are dedicated to several shows that we're exhibiting at (beginning with CanJam SoCal 2016).  But if we can make the logistics work, I might just take him up on the offer.  Hey, you know me, I'm just itching' to start another Carbon thread.


----------



## warrenpchi

hansotek said:


> When you're listening to the LAu, *you are there*.
> 
> There is transparent, and then there is *transparent*.
> 
> it makes the JPS Labs Abyss absolutely sing in a way you can never forget.


 
  
 I know *exactly* how you feel.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And we are not alone...


----------



## Youth

warrenpchi said:


> If you consider the elements that they are named after... well... there ya go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Was wondering about the sonic differences in terms of bass, treble etc


----------



## mandrake50

youth said:


> Was wondering about the sonic differences in terms of bass, treble etc


 

 I am so tempted to take advantage of the discount, but I really can't justify the cost. That being said, I spent close to two hours total at the Cavalli booth at RMAF last year (I kept going back... three to four times). I listened to the Liquid Gold with the Abyss headphones for perhaps an hour of that time. It was Friday afternoon and for a show like this, it was actually pretty quiet. You know, of that time I did not spend any of it analyzing things like bass and treble. I just listened to music. I listened to many genres. I listened at high levels and low levels. I was just blown away by the sound. As I said, I would leave, but the experience kept dragging me back, like some kind of addict.
 I have an LC. I really like it and use it with my HE560s pretty much every day. It is a great little amp. It has never gotten close to making me feel like the Liquid Gold did. With the Abyss, or the HE1K. I also tried it with the HE560, not mine but a pair that Alex had there, again, I can't analyze the gross differences like bass and treble response, but that is not important  in this comparison, it is the overall experience of something so close to being real with the Gold compared to anything else that I have heard. As mentioned in the video, you just have to hear it. The whole in this case feels to me to be far more than the sum of its parts. Describing Bass, Mids, treble, soundstage, detail, focus, etc. Simply will not get you there.


----------



## pippen99

mandrake50 said:


> I am so tempted to take advantage of the discount, but I really can't justify the cost.


 
 Three weeks before this was announced I pulled the trigger on a Woo WA5.  I would have ordered a Liquid Gold minutes after this was live but cannot justify the purchase of two TOTL amps inside of a month.  The ears and heart are screaming "YES, DO IT" while the wallet and brain are screaming "ARE YOU screw**G NUTS'.  So far the wallet and brain are winning and outside of a major shift in priorities I am going to be just waving as this opportunity passes me by. Oh Well!


----------



## Stillhart

pippen99 said:


> Three weeks before this was announced I pulled the trigger on a Woo WA5.  I would have ordered a Liquid Gold minutes after this was live but cannot justify the purchase of two TOTL amps inside of a month.  The ears and heart are screaming "YES, DO IT" while the wallet and brain are screaming "ARE YOU screw**G NUTS'.  So far the wallet and brain are winning and outside of a major shift in priorities I am going to be just waving as this opportunity passes me by. Oh Well!


 
  
 Your brain forgets that you only have to pay for HALF right now.  By the time you have to pay the second half, your wallet will have recovered.


----------



## KG Jag

stillhart said:


> pippen99 said:
> 
> 
> > Three weeks before this was announced I pulled the trigger on a Woo WA5.  I would have ordered a Liquid Gold minutes after this was live but cannot justify the purchase of two TOTL amps inside of a month.  The ears and heart are screaming "YES, DO IT" while the wallet and brain are screaming "ARE YOU screw**G NUTS'.  So far the wallet and brain are winning and outside of a major shift in priorities I am going to be just waving as this opportunity passes me by. Oh Well!
> ...


 

 Or...the wife or girl friend gets two shots at you instead of "just" a single (very large) one.


----------



## Stillhart

kg jag said:


> Or...the wife or girl friend gets two shots at you instead of "just" a single (very large) one.


 
  
 I keep my wife happy by never telling her how much I spend, only how much I save.  I saved $1000 on my Crimson with the RMAF special!


----------



## m0nster

stillhart said:


> I keep my wife happy by never telling her how much I spend, only how much I save.  I saved $1000 on my Crimson with the RMAF special!




Wifes generally know that you rarely save more than 25%.


----------



## KG Jag

m0nster said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > I keep my wife happy by never telling her how much I spend, only how much I save.  I saved $1000 on my Crimson with the RMAF special!
> ...


 

 They *always* know that you save 100% by not buying at all!
  
 P.S. Different rules generally apply to purchases by the lady of the house.


----------



## Stillhart

kg jag said:


> They *always* know that you save 100% by not buying at all!
> 
> *P.S. Different rules generally apply to purchases by the lady of the house.*


 
  
 True that.  I don't say anything when she goes crazy at Gymboree and buys 15 outfits for the baby that will be worn one time each.  She doesn't say anything when I score a HD800 for $650 on the classifieds and HAVE to buy it because I'm saving $950!!  lol


----------



## pippen99

stillhart said:


> I keep my wife happy by never telling her how much I spend, only how much I save.  I saved $1000 on my Crimson with the RMAF special!


 
 I'm still kicking myself on that one.


----------



## inthere

Ok, I used the Aune T1 Mk2 as a tube DAC with the Liquid Carbon and got absolutely sensational results. I had trouble deciding whether to get Liquid Glass or Liquid Gold, until I used my Feliks Audio Elise as a preamp going into the Carbon. So I'm 95% of the way towards going with the Elise into the Liquid Gold for a tube flavor instead of getting the Liquid Glass. DAC will be either Metric Halo ULN-8 or Prism Orpheus.


----------



## leafs

pippen99 said:


> I'm still kicking myself on that one.


 

 Agree, me too.


----------



## networkn

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I am wondering about the suitability of this Amp, with the HD650's, T1's, HE-560's and HD-800's.


----------



## Stillhart

networkn said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before, but I am wondering about the suitability of this Amp, with the HD650's, T1's, HE-560's and HD-800's.


 
  
 I've heard it with three of the four and it's great with all of them (really want to go balanced though).  I haven't heard it with the T1 yet, but @Hansotek has.


----------



## networkn

stillhart said:


> I've heard it with three of the four and it's great with all of them (really want to go balanced though).  I haven't heard it with the T1 yet, but @Hansotek has.


 
  
 Hi. 
  
 I am not really keen to replace the cables on my HD-650's or T1's. I haven't yet purchased a HE-560 or HD-800 but if I do, then I'll consider balanced.
 What happens if I don't have balanced cables?


----------



## Stillhart

networkn said:


> Hi.
> 
> I am not really keen to replace the cables on my HD-650's or T1's. I haven't yet purchased a HE-560 or HD-800 but if I do, then I'll consider balanced.
> What happens if I don't have balanced cables?


 
  
 Well the amp is designed to sound best balanced.  It puts out 4x the power in balanced mode.  The HD800 and HD650 in particular really shine with the extra power.  I thought the HD650 sounded pretty good balanced and just okay SE (that's based on my preference for a bit more open sound).
  
 While I won't say that you need to go balanced, I'll just say that my impressions and recommendation are based on using it balanced.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> networkn said:
> 
> 
> > Apologies if this has been asked before, but I am wondering about the suitability of this Amp, with the HD650's, T1's, HE-560's and HD-800's.
> ...


 
  
 The Beyer T1 is decently good through the LC single ended, but I would imagine it improves tremendously in balanced mode (given the improvements that generally come with going balanced). I've already talked to @Stillhart about chopping my T1 cable and adding a balanced connection and adaptor for this very reason. By all accounts it is extremely easy on the T1, I just trust his soldering skills much more than my own, lol.
  
 Also, I run the HD800 balanced out of the LC all the time, and it is scary good. That could easily be somebody's endgame setup. Big thumbs up.


----------



## Hansotek

networkn said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard it with three of the four and it's great with all of them (really want to go balanced though).  I haven't heard it with the T1 yet, but @Hansotek has.
> ...


 
  
 You definitely wouldn't have to replace the entire cable to go balanced on the T1 (assuming you have the stock cable). Even if you don't possess DIY skills, there are folks who can reterminate it for you (or chop it and make an adaptor) pretty cheaply. That cable is built with everything you need already inside -  so you can go single ended, balanced 4-pin or dual 3-pin XLR, without actually replacing the cable. It's actually pretty cool that Beyer did that, IMO.


----------



## networkn

hansotek said:


> You definitely wouldn't have to replace the entire cable to go balanced on the T1 (assuming you have the stock cable). Even if you don't possess DIY skills, there are folks who can reterminate it for you (or chop it and make an adaptor) pretty cheaply. That cable is built with everything you need already inside -  so you can go single ended, balanced 4-pin or dual 3-pin XLR, without actually replacing the cable. It's actually pretty cool that Beyer did that, IMO.


 
  
 Then the problem is that when I want to listen on a single end amp, I can't right? 
 I am wondering if HD800 + LC might be a very reasonable END game too.


----------



## x RELIC x

networkn said:


> Then the problem is that when I want to listen on a single end amp, I can't right?
> I am wondering if HD800 + LC might be a very reasonable END game too.




You can get a tail that converts the balanced headphone connector to a SE connection for the amp. You just can't go the other way around.


----------



## networkn

x relic x said:


> You can get a tail that converts the balanced headphone connector to a SE connection for the amp. You just can't go the other way around.


 
  
 OK well that's starting to sound really good. Do you have a link to said tail?
 I know it's unlikely, but is anyone willing to part with their LC?


----------



## x RELIC x

Google "xlr to 3.5mm adapter", or whatever balanced end you have to 3.5mm or 6.35mm (1/8 or 1/4 inch single ended).

Most custom cable manufactures can make one.


----------



## buke9

4 pin xlr to 1/4 " trs.


----------



## Hansotek

networkn said:


> x relic x said:
> 
> 
> > You can get a tail that converts the balanced headphone connector to a SE connection for the amp. You just can't go the other way around.
> ...


 
  
 You can also have them cut the T1 cable about a foot from the end and then make your SE tail out of that last foot of the T1 cable. That's the way I'm going to do it.


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> You can also have them cut the T1 cable about a foot from the end and then make your SE tail out of that last foot of the T1 cable. That's the way I'm going to do it.


 
  
 It is?  I'm going to have to order more parts!
  
 Here's the one I made with my HE-560 cable.  Works with my HD800 cable and I've used it with my Omni too.  It's a nice thing to have sitting around, TBH.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > You can also have them cut the T1 cable about a foot from the end and then make your SE tail out of that last foot of the T1 cable. That's the way I'm going to do it.
> ...



Actually, never mind. You can do it however you want. It's also easy enough to just de-solder the end, I think.


----------



## buke9

Got parts.


----------



## Stillhart

buke9 said:


> Got parts.


 
  
 That looks like BTG Audio wire there.  Good stuff!


----------



## d1sturb3d

@buke9 where did you source silver wire? can see a lot of silver wires on ebay, not sure on who to trust though


----------



## buke9

d1sturb3d said:


> @buke9 where did you source silver wire? can see a lot of silver wires on ebay, not sure on who to trust thoughStillhart


 
 Stillhart had it right for the most part . One of the silver plated is BTG the other is Acrolink (from China). The black wire is Norne haven't decided what to do with it yet. I have some solid silver coming in so it could get weird.


----------



## d1sturb3d

buke9 said:


> Stillhart had it right for the most part . One of the silver plated is BTG the other is Acrolink (from China). The black wire is Norne haven't decided what to do with it yet. I have some solid silver coming in so it could get weird.


 

 Thank you for the response..I'll look into the BTG cable


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

networkn said:


> Then the problem is that when I want to listen on a single end amp, I can't right?
> I am wondering if HD800 + LC might be a very reasonable END game too.


 
  
 The new HD800S comes with two cables for just that purpose...


----------



## Evshrug

buke9 said:


> Stillhart had it right for the most part . One of the silver plated is BTG the other is Acrolink (from China). The black wire is Norne haven't decided what to do with it yet. I have some solid silver coming in so it could get weird.




LOL I like this... Hopefully it's an awesome kind of weird! Happy experimenting!


----------



## buke9

evshrug said:


> LOL I like this... Hopefully it's an awesome kind of weird! Happy experimenting!


----------



## yc1204

Anyone know where / when could I purchase the Liquid Carbon? Can't find it on the website and couldn't find any from 2nd hand market too.... 
  
 So regret I didn't pull the triger when its available on the website....


----------



## AxelCloris

yc1204 said:


> Anyone know where / when could I purchase the Liquid Carbon? Can't find it on the website and couldn't find any from 2nd hand market too....
> 
> So regret I didn't pull the triger when its available on the website....


 
  
 At this point your only two options are to keep an eye on the classifieds or wait for a possible second and potentially more expensive production run


----------



## inthere

yc1204 said:


> Anyone know where / when could I purchase the Liquid Carbon? Can't find it on the website and couldn't find any from 2nd hand market too....
> 
> So regret I didn't pull the triger when its available on the website....


 

 I got mine on the Head Fi "For Sale" forum by offering $800 for one. You may not have to offer that much but Carbon owners are notoriously reluctant to part with their amps, so offering a profit may inspire someone......


----------



## heliosphann

Got mine LC (#75) properly hooked up, but am awaiting balanced cables. Still sounds amazing even with the line noise. Big thanks to shultzee for hooking me up!


----------



## Stillhart

inthere said:


> I got mine on the Head Fi "For Sale" forum by offering $800 for one. You may not have to offer that much but Carbon owners are notoriously reluctant to part with their amps, so offering a profit may inspire someone......


 
  
 You might not want to publicize that as it's against forum rules to flip gear (the seller could get in trouble).


----------



## shultzee

heliosphann said:


> Got mine LC (#75) properly hooked up, but am awaiting balanced cables. Still sounds amazing even with the line noise. Big thanks to shultzee for hooking me up!


 

 Dang , I am happy for you and sad for me.    Sure you don't want to sell it back


----------



## heliosphann

shultzee said:


> Dang , I am happy for you and sad for me.    Sure you don't want to sell it back


 
 I just consulted with my Magic 8 Ball and it said "Outlook Not So Good"... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 But if I do you'll be the first I contact!


----------



## inthere

shultzee said:


> Dang , I am happy for you and sad for me.    Sure you don't want to sell it back


 
  
  You like Mjornir 2 better than Carbon?


----------



## bearFNF

stillhart said:


> You might not want to publicize that as it's against forum rules to flip gear (the seller could get in trouble).


 

 It's not flipping if that is the going rate. He also said he offered that amount, not that the seller asked for that amount. 
  Also, you and I don't know the full details and quite frankly it's not our business, so we should not even be suggesting anything wrong was done, don't you think??


----------



## Stillhart

bearfnf said:


> It's not flipping if that is the going rate. He also said he offered that amount, not that the seller asked for that amount.
> Also, you and I don't know the full details and quite frankly it's not our business, so we should not even be suggesting anything wrong was done, don't you think??


 
  
 I'm no mod, I was just offering some friendly advice; not everyone reads that giant page of rules at the top of the F/S section.


----------



## shultzee

inthere said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Dang , I am happy for you and sad for me.    Sure you don't want to sell it back
> ...


 

 They both are very good with Yggy>HD 800.   Each offer a different sound signature that I like very much.


----------



## inthere

stillhart said:


> I'm no mod, I was just offering some friendly advice; not everyone reads that giant page of rules at the top of the F/S section.


 
  
  I did and i offered to buy a Carbon for $800, not sell one. Also, since the Carbon was discontinued, the value goes up.


----------



## pippen99

inthere said:


> Also, since the Carbon was discontinued, the value goes up.


 
 For sale: 1986 Yugo - $10,100.  Pretty sure being discontinued doesn't mean the value goes up automatically.  Best offers accepted gleefully!http://www.head-fi.org/t/801264/music-city-meet-volume-5-nashville-tn-spring-2016-april-9-2016


----------



## doctorjazz

Supply and demand, has to have many folks wanting one (fits the LC, not so the Hugo).


----------



## inthere

pippen99 said:


> For sale: 1986 Yugo - $10,100.  Pretty sure being discontinued doesn't mean the value goes up automatically.  Best offers accepted gleefully!http://www.head-fi.org/t/801264/music-city-meet-volume-5-nashville-tn-spring-2016-april-9-2016


 
  
  Also pretty sure you know that example is completely different from my circumstances.


----------



## conquerator2

If I ever decide to sell mine, This thread will be the first to know


----------



## pippen99

inthere said:


> Also pretty sure you know that example is completely different from my circumstances.


 
 I pay attention


----------



## Peridot

I'm almost tempted to sell mine.
  
 It's keeping me up at night because I can't stop listening to how great my music is sounding


----------



## zachawry

I sold mine because in the end, the LC just whetted my appetite for really high-end amps. 

I probably could have gotten an extra hundred or two for it, but I was happy to send it to the next owner for the original price.


----------



## mscott58

zachawry said:


> I sold mine because in the end, the LC just whetted my appetite for really high-end amps.
> 
> I probably could have gotten an extra hundred or two for it, but I was happy to send it to the next owner for the original price.


 
 So did you upgrade to another Cavalli? Cheers


----------



## zachawry

mscott58 said:


> So did you upgrade to another Cavalli? Cheers


 

 I really wanted a Glass, but wasn't willing to wait 7 months, so I got a MZOTL2, which I am very happy with. 
  
 That satisfied my tube lust, but I still want a Crimson or a Gold. But that will have to wait for a fairly long time. Dang kids need to be fed!


----------



## doctorjazz

Those DANG KIDS!!!!! 
Next thing you know they'll be wanting college, cellphones, all these rediculous expenses, money that should be spent on BETTER GEAR!


----------



## zachawry

doctorjazz said:


> Those DANG KIDS!!!!!
> Next thing you know they'll be wanting college, cellphones, all these rediculous expenses, money that should be spent on BETTER GEAR!


 

 And the worst part is, they show NO signs of appreciating the fact that raising them has seriously cut into my headphone-related spending.


----------



## doctorjazz

zachawry said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Those DANG KIDS!!!!!
> ...




Not only that, they get old enough to listen to music, they "borrow" some of your good cans, and don't appreciate the great music you've collected over the years. kids!


----------



## Evshrug

I appreciate my father's music! In fact, nothing else quite puts me at ease as putting on some of the music my Dad had playing almost always at the apartment/office.

Now that I'm older (damn, this year I'll be the age he was when he had me!), I bough him his first pair of "good" cans. Totally bought the LC for me though!!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

zachawry said:


> And the worst part is, they show NO signs of appreciating the fact that raising them has seriously cut into my headphone-related spending.


 
  
 My kids are the reason for my headphone listening.  Even the LC can't fully drown out 3 teens...


----------



## BucketInABucket

buttuglyjeff said:


> My kids are the reason for my headphone listening.  Even the LC can't fully drown out 3 teens...


 
 Meanwhile, my dad's the reason I got into hifi in the first place with his damn sexy speaker setup...


----------



## warrenpchi




----------



## x RELIC x

Oooooh, one more run!! That's great news for those who want a taste of Cavalli's magic. 

Damn, now mine isn't as exclusive. :veryevil:


----------



## vince741

Future buyer, be careful.
 The LC is a gateway drug. Because of it, I've bought a second hand Liquid Gold.


----------



## ejong7

x relic x said:


> Oooooh, one more run!! That's great news for those who want a taste of Cavalli's magic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Time for us to think of ideas to make them exclusive again. Have to make the #500 numbers club to be the coolest in the crew.


----------



## x RELIC x

ejong7 said:


> Time for us to think of ideas to make them exclusive again. Have to make the #500 numbers club to be the coolest in the crew. :wink_face:




This is us....


----------



## AxelCloris

x relic x said:


> This is us....


 
  
 I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm nowhere near as ripped and airbrushed as those warriors.


----------



## networkn

I am wondering if anyone has compared this to a Gustard H10, an again, if anyone has one for sale!


----------



## x RELIC x

axelcloris said:


> I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm nowhere near as ripped and airbrushed as those warriors.




In our minds we all are. :veryevil:


----------



## Stillhart

networkn said:


> I am wondering if anyone has compared this to a Gustard H10, an again, if anyone has one for sale!


 
  
 I've heard a fellow say he likes the H10 with upgraded Burson opamps better than the Carbon.  I haven't heard that so I couldn't say but I do love the Carbon and I think the H10 would have to be something really special to beat it.  It may just be a tonal preference thing for him?
  
 As to your second question, it was announced this morning that there will be a second Carbon run.  More details to be announced soon...


----------



## networkn

stillhart said:


> I've heard a fellow say he likes the H10 with upgraded Burson opamps better than the Carbon.  I haven't heard that so I couldn't say but I do love the Carbon and I think the H10 would have to be something really special to beat it.  It may just be a tonal preference thing for him?
> 
> As to your second question, it was announced this morning that there will be a second Carbon run.  More details to be announced soon...


 
  
 I don't see an announcement or product on their website, do you have a link? 
 How long between announcement and delivery was the last run? I am in the US in 6 weeks or a fortnight. To make it work I'd need to find something there, or the freight/import duties would kill it.


----------



## Stillhart

networkn said:


> I don't see an announcement or product on their website, do you have a link?
> How long between announcement and delivery was the last run? I am in the US in 6 weeks or a fortnight. To make it work I'd need to find something there, or the freight/import duties would kill it.


 
  
 They announced it in the Canjam preview video and Canjam thread.  No details yet on price or timing or international rates.  I do know someone in EU who might be looking to sell his first run, I'll let him know you're looking.


----------



## conquerator2

networkn said:


> I don't see an announcement or product on their website, do you have a link?
> How long between announcement and delivery was the last run? I am in the US in 6 weeks or a fortnight. To make it work I'd need to find something there, or the freight/import duties would kill it.




Kudos to @Stillhart

That would be me.
I might be looking to sell mine in aprox. 3 weeks when I return from SoCal. 
It's a pristine first run.
I let you know you let me know


----------



## networkn

conquerator2 said:


> Kudos to @Stillhart
> 
> That would be me.
> I might be looking to sell mine in aprox. 3 weeks when I return from SoCal.
> ...


 
  
 Yes please.


----------



## fiascogarcia

warrenpchi said:


>


 
 Will the new run be announced on Head-Fi?  I've been looking for one like a dog after a bone!  Just missed one today as a matter of fact.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Thanks!


----------



## zachawry

vince741 said:


> Future buyer, be careful.
> The LC is a gateway drug. Because of it, I've bought a second hand Liquid Gold.


 

 I really want a Gold eventually. Would be interested to hear your impressions.


----------



## Stillhart

zachawry said:


> I really want a Gold eventually. Would be interested to hear your impressions.


 
  
 Warren has loaned me one for a few days before Canjam here.  I just plugged it in to listen to for the first time outside a show environment.
  
 It's.  Really.  Good.
  
 Try not to listen to one if you can't afford it.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> Warren has loaned me one for a few days before Canjam here.  I just plugged it in to listen to for the first time outside a show environment.
> 
> It's.  Really.  Good.
> 
> Try not to listen to one if you can't afford it.


 
  
 Told ya.


----------



## LajostheHun

fiascogarcia said:


> Will the new run be announced on Head-Fi?  I've been looking for one like a dog after a bone!  Just missed one today as a matter of fact.      Thanks!



Yup that was mine, sorry about that. I listed mine today because of the announcement of the new batch. I never sold anything so quickly.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Warren has loaned me one for a few days before Canjam here.  I just plugged it in to listen to for the first time outside a show environment.
> 
> It's.  Really.  Good.
> 
> Try not to listen to one if you can't afford it.


 

 This is why I haven't spent any extended time with it.


----------



## x RELIC x

lajosthehun said:


> Yup that was mine, sorry about that. I listed mine today because of the announcement of the new batch. I never sold anything so quickly.




You sold yours because there's a second release?


----------



## harpo1

x relic x said:


> You sold yours because there's a second release?


 
 I believe there was mention of some upgrades to the new release.


----------



## AxelCloris

Upgrades? I haven't read anything about upgrades.
  
 Quote: Warren 





> *More Liquid Carbons!*
> Yay!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There will be surprises, but he didn't mention upgrades.


----------



## x RELIC x

Hmmmm. I like surprises. Interesting.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Hmmmm. I like surprises. Interesting.


 
  
 It may not be what you're expecting.  I can just see Warren hiding in your closet and...


----------



## x RELIC x




----------



## inthere

axelcloris said:


> Upgrades? I haven't read anything about upgrades.
> 
> There will be surprises, but he didn't mention upgrades.


 
  
 Price increases? That's not pleasant!


----------



## kenman345

axelcloris said:


> Upgrades? I haven't read anything about upgrades.
> 
> 
> There will be surprises, but he didn't mention upgrades.


 
 Surprise!!! Power Cable now included.
  
  
  
 JK, I have no idea what it will be but considering how they have treated the first batch buyers I would imagine they would offer an upgrade program if there is enough change to warrant such a thing.


----------



## doctorjazz

They have been very good to the first set of LC purchasers, indeed. It would seem to me that if there are improvements made, it would be to address the hum/ground issues many seem to have (I haven't had it myself). Of course, I'm just guessing on this...the response on the LC has generally been so positive they could do nothing at all and would likely sell very well.


----------



## inthere

doctorjazz said:


> They have been very good to the first set of LC purchasers, indeed. It would seem to me that if there are improvements made, it would be to address the hum/ground issues many seem to have (I haven't had it myself). Of course, I'm just guessing on this...the response on the LC has generally been so positive they could do nothing at all and would likely sell very well.


 
  
  If LC sells at the same price it'll be sold out within hours of the announcement. I'll buy one for my brother. He already has Audioquest Nighthawks and it'll be an endgame setup for him.


----------



## nudd

doctorjazz said:


> They have been very good to the first set of LC purchasers, indeed. It would seem to me that if there are improvements made, it would be to address the hum/ground issues many seem to have (I haven't had it myself). Of course, I'm just guessing on this...the response on the LC has generally been so positive they could do nothing at all and would likely sell very well.


 
  
 Yeah, hope they solve the funny hum issue which affects me and a number of other people. It's very weird. there is a hum if the balanced inputs are utilised which only appears when listening to the SE output. This hum does not appear when signal chain is SE input -> SE output.
  
 Also if the SE input is connected at the same time as the balanced input, but with the balanced input selected, the hum goes away when listening to SE output!


----------



## fiascogarcia

nudd said:


> Yeah, hope they solve the funny hum issue which affects me and a number of other people. It's very weird. there is a hum if the balanced inputs are utilised which only appears when listening to the SE output. This hum does not appear when signal chain is SE input -> SE output.
> 
> Also if the SE input is connected at the same time as the balanced input, but with the balanced input selected, the hum goes away when listening to SE output!


 
 Can you use SE input> balanced output on the LC?


----------



## harpo1

fiascogarcia said:


> Can you use SE input> balanced output on the LC?


 
 Yes you can.


----------



## doctorjazz

fiascogarcia said:


> nudd said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, hope they solve the funny hum issue which affects me and a number of other people. It's very weird. there is a hum if the balanced inputs are utilised which only appears when listening to the SE output. This hum does not appear when signal chain is SE input -> SE output.
> ...




Yes, the infamous splitter for making single ended input become balanced works well, from what I understand. My sources have been single ended so far, use a balanced HEK when I use the amp.


----------



## Stillhart

nudd said:


> Yeah, hope they solve the funny hum issue which affects me and a number of other people. It's very weird. there is a hum if the balanced inputs are utilised which only appears when listening to the SE output. This hum does not appear when signal chain is SE input -> SE output.
> 
> Also if the SE input is connected at the same time as the balanced input, but with the balanced input selected, the hum goes away when listening to SE output!



This sounds exactly like the grounding issue that Alex described many moons ago. Has to do with the balanced connection missing a common ground. Sounds like you already stumbled upon the solution.


----------



## Peridot

stillhart said:


> This sounds exactly like the grounding issue that Alex described many moons ago. Has to do with the balanced connection missing a common ground. Sounds like you already stumbled upon the solution.


 
  
 No, it's not that. It happens even when there is a common ground connection on pin 1 of the XLR balanced inputs.
  
 Clearly the pin 1 ground on the balanced inputs is not electrically connected to the SE ground on the phono / 3.5mm input.
  
 Alex indicated that, where XLR connectors are not being used on the balanced source, a ground connection can be made to the SE input connections on the LC.
  
 I'm wondering if this connection would be better made to pin 1 of the XLR inputs on the LC.


----------



## LajostheHun

x relic x said:


> You sold yours because there's a second release?


No.


----------



## Stillhart

Hey everyone!  If you're considering taking advantage of the loyalty upgrade at all, you might want to keep an eye on this thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/802865/cavalli-audio-the-liquid-carbon-upgrade-guide-impressions-tour


----------



## psychogene

Hi all I have bought this great amp second hand off a member on head-fi approx 10 days ago and it HAD been running great in single ended mode - (as I had no XLR cables) - no issues whatsoever -  but now I have a worrying issue.
  
 I just got my balanced cables for alpha prime + hd650 today (ordered from the states) and I had a quick listen with the Alpha Primes in XLR mode for the first time on the liquid carbon. Was great definitely noticed more power in the bass and highs. I then switched to HD650 XLR and I immediately notice that something was wrong with the sound - the left channel was fine (no distortion, no little static/crackling sound) but the right channel I could hear noticeable distortion especially on the bass and the clarity was definitely lacking.
  
 At low volume it wasn't that noticeable but put on gain x 3 and raise the volume pot around 12'o'clock and it was clear something was wrong. So I switched back to SE mode on HD650 and the issue still persists! I switch to XLR Alpha Prime and SE cable mode and yep the right channel sounded like low quality radio.
  
 Things I've tried
 - Switched RCA cable (as I'm running SE input only - don't have any XLR input cables or audio sources). Same issue.
 - Tested SE mode on my other amp (Lyr 2 and X-Can V8P) - no issues at all in both channels
  
 I'm guessing somethings wrong internally so my next course of action is to contact Cavalli ? I am the second owner so will I have any warranty issues ? This amp as far as I know has already been burnt in 150+ hours and up until I tried XLR it was working great but now something bad has happened once I tried XLR output.
  
 Such a shame was looking forward to hearing XLR mode headphones for the first time at home on this great amp!


----------



## Stillhart

psychogene said:


> Hi all I have bought this great amp second hand off a member on head-fi approx 10 days ago and it HAD been running great in single ended mode - (as I had no XLR cables) - no issues whatsoever -  but now I have a worrying issue.
> 
> I just got my balanced cables for alpha prime + hd650 today (ordered from the states) and I had a quick listen with the Alpha Primes in XLR mode for the first time on the liquid carbon. Was great definitely noticed more power in the bass and highs. I then switched to HD650 XLR and I immediately notice that something was wrong with the sound - the left channel was fine (no distortion, no little static/crackling sound) but the right channel I could hear noticeable distortion especially on the bass and the clarity was definitely lacking.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, email Cavalli.  It has a lifetime warranty and it's fully transferrable so you'll be fine.


----------



## nudd

I thought with the transferable warranty you had to get authorisation before the transfer, although this may be only a technicality.


----------



## x RELIC x

nudd said:


> I thought with the transferable warranty you had to get authorisation before the transfer, although this may be only a technicality.




Let them know who you bought it from so they can track the warranty transfer.


----------



## Jozurr

psychogene said:


> Hi all I have bought this great amp second hand off a member on head-fi approx 10 days ago and it HAD been running great in single ended mode - (as I had no XLR cables) - no issues whatsoever -  but now I have a worrying issue.
> 
> I just got my balanced cables for alpha prime + hd650 today (ordered from the states) and I had a quick listen with the Alpha Primes in XLR mode for the first time on the liquid carbon. Was great definitely noticed more power in the bass and highs. I then switched to HD650 XLR and I immediately notice that something was wrong with the sound - the left channel was fine (no distortion, no little static/crackling sound) but the right channel I could hear noticeable distortion especially on the bass and the clarity was definitely lacking.
> 
> ...




Had similar issues with my amp but was covered under warranty and they even paid the shipping back and forth. There is no reason to worry. It has lifetime warranty that is fully transferable so contact them and they will sort you out. They have one of the best customer service.


----------



## psychogene

Hey thanks for the replies!
  
 So I left music playing for the last 3-4 hours on balanced mode at max volume/gain and just went and did errands. Came back and everything seems to have fixed itself ?!? No distortion, humming or static pop/crackling sounds on right channel. So far so good !
  
 Think I'll hold off contacting Cavalli Audio for now and just leave the unit on for a few days - at the worst I can enjoy it for now and if the issue comes back again I'll get in touch with Cavalli Audio. Thanks all!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

psychogene said:


> Hey thanks for the replies!
> 
> So I left music playing for the last 3-4 hours on balanced mode at max volume/gain and just went and did errands. Came back and everything seems to have fixed itself ?!? No distortion, humming or static pop/crackling sounds on right channel. So far so good !
> 
> Think I'll hold off contacting Cavalli Audio for now and just leave the unit on for a few days - at the worst I can enjoy it for now and if the issue comes back again I'll get in touch with Cavalli Audio. Thanks all!


 
  
 I was going to ask if the LC was burned in single ended mode only, since only half the amp is used that way.  Maybe now both sides have equaled out?


----------



## nudd

psychogene said:


> Hey thanks for the replies!
> 
> So I left music playing for the last 3-4 hours on balanced mode at max volume/gain and just went and did errands. Came back and everything seems to have fixed itself ?!? No distortion, humming or static pop/crackling sounds on right channel. So far so good !
> 
> Think I'll hold off contacting Cavalli Audio for now and just leave the unit on for a few days - at the worst I can enjoy it for now and if the issue comes back again I'll get in touch with Cavalli Audio. Thanks all!




You should email them and get the warranty officially transferred anyway.


----------



## Aornic

Hey. Does anyone here have a Liquid Carbon + ZMF Omni pairing? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.


----------



## Evshrug

aornic said:


> Hey. Does anyone here have a Liquid Carbon + ZMF Omni pairing? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.




I've just been rocking out to the Liquid Carbon + ZMF Vibro over the past two months, just doing a final edit pass on my review. Would you like a link when I post it?

Overall I think the ZMF needs power, and the LC delivered very well. Clearer but also less etched than my three amps with the Texas Instruments TPA6120A2 amp chip, the Liquid Carbon also does a bit better extending the frequency extremes. Put the ZMF + LC + a decent DAC together, and you will just sink in, and in, and in...


----------



## morinu

evshrug said:


> I've just been rocking out to the Liquid Carbon + ZMF Vibro over the past two months, just doing a final edit pass on my review. Would you like a link when I post it?
> 
> Overall I think the ZMF needs power, and the LC delivered very well. Clearer but also less etched than my three amps with the Texas Instruments TPA6120A2 amp chip, the Liquid Carbon also does a bit better extending the frequency extremes. Put the ZMF + LC + a decent DAC together, and you will just sink in, and in, and in...


 
  
 Do you know how it compares to the Alpha Dogs? I have one and I am wondering if I would like more the ZMF Vibro. Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

When I first had a chance to listen to a MrSpeakers, I went straight to an Ether and Ether C! Which were amazing. Gotta apologize though, I haven't heard either of the Alphas. General consensus seems to be that they are brighter. The Vibro may only have a moderate treble rise, but the unforced yet articulate highs didn't leave me wanting more treble.

I want to add to my earlier comment... Yes the Vibro scaled up and sounded great with the Liquid Carbon, but some friends of mine with deeper pockets and even better amps report that the ZMF's continue to scale up and up! Basically, I've come to learn that upgrading the headphone is one of the best values up till about $200... after that, headphones DO continue to improve, but more potential will be unlocked by better and better systems. I'm expecting my audio chain to cost well more than my future headphones.


----------



## morinu

evshrug said:


> When I first had a chance to listen to a MrSpeakers, I went straight to an Ether and Ether C! Which were amazing. Gotta apologize though, I haven't heard either of the Alphas. General consensus seems to be that they are brighter. The Vibro may only have a moderate treble rise, but the unforced yet articulate highs didn't leave me wanting more treble.
> 
> I want to add to my earlier comment... Yes the Vibro scaled up and sounded great with the Liquid Carbon, but some friends of mine with deeper pockets and even better amps report that the ZMF's continue to scale up and up! Basically, I've come to learn that upgrading the headphone is one of the best values up till about $200... after that, headphones DO continue to improve, but more potential will be unlocked by better and better systems. I'm expecting my audio chain to cost well more than my future headphones.


 
 Thank you for the insight Evshrug. I do find the Alpha Dogs to be bright and that is the main reason why I am not too interested in the Ethers but I hope to have the chance to try them at some point. Brightness is the only thing that I don't like of the Alphas... everything else is amazing (Clarity, comfort, noise isolation, lows/mids)


----------



## BucketInABucket

I'm an owner of the AP here and it's indeed a touch too bright for what I'm aiming for when paired with either the LC or a Project Ember.
  
 Speaking of which, I got a Theta Basic IIIa coming hopefully tomorrow; can't wait to see how it slots in with my rig!


----------



## Hansotek

morinu said:


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > When I first had a chance to listen to a MrSpeakers, I went straight to an Ether and Ether C! Which were amazing. Gotta apologize though, I haven't heard either of the Alphas. General consensus seems to be that they are brighter. The Vibro may only have a moderate treble rise, but the unforced yet articulate highs didn't leave me wanting more treble.
> ...



You'll probably dig the ZMFs then. They are pretty smooth and easygoing up top.


----------



## doctorjazz

A quick impression on ZMF Omni (just got a review pair), they are indeed easy on top, while still detailed up there...


----------



## psychogene

Hi I indeed e-mailed Mr.Cavalli as after some burn-in the HD650 was great in XLR/SE output but the Alpha Prime still had quite noticeable distortion at high volumes in both SE/XLR.
  
 He prompted replied and I have shipped the amp back to him for repairs no fuss whatsoever.


----------



## jlbrach

Basically, I've come to learn that upgrading the headphone is one of the best values up till about $200... after that, headphones DO continue to improve, but more potential will be unlocked by better and better systems. I'm expecting my audio chain to cost well more than my future headphones.
  
 I will tell you from years of experience that there most definitely a a law of diminishing returns but it kicks in quite a bit above 200 dollars....


----------



## doctorjazz

I'd agree the sweet spot is higher than $200, start to hit diminishing returns at about $1K (maybe a bit less, the $700-1,000 range).


----------



## yage

doctorjazz said:


> I'd agree the sweet spot is higher than $200, start to hit diminishing returns at about $1K (maybe a bit less, the $700-1,000 range).


 
  
 Careful, all those headphone companies are reading... pretty soon the 'sweet spot' will start migrating upwards.


----------



## doctorjazz

Too late now...


----------



## cskippy

I firmly stop at $50.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Also, to keep relevant, my mini rig of JK Ciunas Dac to Liquid Carbon sounds AMAZING!  Plus, it's all black.


----------



## fiascogarcia

I just noticed some units have the front panel marked with the 1X/3X notation and the Bal/SE notation over their respective buttons, while others do not.  Is that just a matter of when they were manufactured?  Just a curiosity...


----------



## AxelCloris

fiascogarcia said:


> I just noticed some units have the front panel marked with the 1X/3X notation and the Bal/SE notation over their respective buttons, while others do not.  Is that just a matter of when they were manufactured?  Just a curiosity...


 
  
 There were several prototypes floating around before the LC was in production. Those do not have the silk screening you find on the final version. Anything that isn't a prototype will have those labels on the faceplate.


----------



## fiascogarcia

axelcloris said:


> There were several prototypes floating around before the LC was in production. Those do not have the silk screening you find on the final version. Anything that isn't a prototype will have those labels on the faceplate.


 
 Interesting.  I have Serial # 327 without the labels.


----------



## AxelCloris

fiascogarcia said:


> Interesting.  I have Serial # 327 without the labels.


 
  
 Oops, I had that backwards in my head, sorry. I believe the 1x/3x labels were from the prototypes because they didn't have different colored LEDs like the production version. The labels were removed for production because we have the red/white indicators to tell which is which.


----------



## Peridot

jlbrach said:


> Basically, I've come to learn that upgrading the headphone is one of the best values up till about $200... after that, headphones DO continue to improve, but more potential will be unlocked by better and better systems. I'm expecting my audio chain to cost well more than my future headphones.
> 
> I will tell you from years of experience that there most definitely a a law of diminishing returns but it kicks in quite a bit above 200 dollars....


 
  
 Where did that text in red come from?
  
 It's not a quote from this thread ASFAIK


----------



## jlbrach

22 hours, 44 minutes ago

    

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/4/40/100x100px-LS-40846038_image.jpeg[/img]
 
Evshrug




 
offline
 
4,599 Posts. Joined 3/2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
 


  When I first had a chance to listen to a MrSpeakers, I went straight to an Ether and Ether C! Which were amazing. Gotta apologize though, I haven't heard either of the Alphas. General consensus seems to be that they are brighter. The Vibro may only have a moderate treble rise, but the unforced yet articulate highs didn't leave me wanting more treble.

 I want to add to my earlier comment... Yes the Vibro scaled up and sounded great with the Liquid Carbon, but some friends of mine with deeper pockets and even better amps report that the ZMF's continue to scale up and up! Basically, I've come to learn that upgrading the headphone is one of the best values up till about $200... after that, headphones DO continue to improve, but more potential will be unlocked by better and better systems. I'm expecting my audio chain to cost well more than my future headphones.

  

 This is where it comes from on the prior page


----------



## doctorjazz

Haven't heard the whole ZMF line, the Omni is really nice sounding. The question of how much goodness of sound is worth in dollars is a very individual thing.


----------



## Aornic

doctorjazz said:


> Haven't heard the whole ZMF line, the Omni is really nice sounding. The question of how much goodness of sound is worth in dollars is a very individual thing.




I have the Omni and it sounds great with just a Magni 2 so I'm really curious about the liquid carbon for the scaling.


----------



## Stillhart

aornic said:


> I have the Omni and it sounds great with just a Magni 2 so I'm really curious about the liquid carbon for the scaling.


 
  
 As I mentioned in the Omni thread, I think it pairs very well with the Carbon.  But I was pleasantly surprised to find that it scaled even higher with the Liquid Crimson.  The Omni actually outperformed my HE-560 on the Liquid Crimson, which I wasn't expecting.
  
 I haven't heard it with the Magni, but I believe the Liquid Carbon should give you at least 2x the power (from the balanced output) so you should notice an improvement.


----------



## defbear

axelcloris said:


> There were several prototypes floating around before the LC was in production. Those do not have the silk screening you find on the final version. Anything that isn't a prototype will have those labels on the faceplate.


#120 has funny rectangular symbols in place of 1x 3x and SE/BAL.


----------



## cskippy

defbear said:


> #120 has funny rectangular symbols in place of 1x 3x and SE/BAL.


 
 I think those are actually a funny script g for gain and s for switch or input?  Notice the se above the 1/4 inch headphone jack?  same script style.


----------



## defbear

cskippy said:


> I think those are actually a funny script g for gain and s for switch or input?  Notice the se above the 1/4 inch headphone jack?  same script style.


Defbear says in his best Ed McMahon voice: Yes!


----------



## Peridot

jlbrach said:


> 22 hours, 44 minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## networkn

Well I'd really like one of these but they are as rare as rocking horse teeth, and CA don't seem to want to respond to my emails and I can't find anything to indicate they are doing any more, or whether I can get one whilst I am in the US late April to mid May.


----------



## Peridot

networkn said:


> Well I'd really like one of these but they are as rare as rocking horse teeth, and CA don't seem to want to respond to my emails and I can't find anything to indicate they are doing any more, or whether I can get one whilst I am in the US late April to mid May.


 
  
 It has been confirmed on this and the other LC reads that there will be more.
  
 Details of when they will be available should emerge in the next few days.


----------



## morinu

hansotek said:


> You'll probably dig the ZMFs then. They are pretty smooth and easygoing up top.


 
 I woke up to the Vibro II being in Massdrop so I had to join the drop lol. I was going for the Purplehearts but I think this is a better fit for me. Thank you for all the comments!


----------



## Stillhart

morinu said:


> I woke up to the Vibro II being in Massdrop so I had to join the drop lol. I was going for the Purplehearts but I think this is a better fit for me. Thank you for all the comments!


 
  
 That's a smokin deal.  Not surprised that the drop filled up as quickly as it did!


----------



## Aornic

morinu said:


> I woke up to the Vibro II being in Massdrop so I had to join the drop lol. I was going for the Purplehearts but I think this is a better fit for me. Thank you for all the comments!


 
 Nice. I have a Vibro and an Omni and they're pretty hungry. My Magni 2 and Asgard 2 run them just fine but I really covet a Liquid Carbon to push them further and see how they scale.


----------



## fiascogarcia

What is the deal with mention of a lifetime warranty?  Cavalli manual says it has only a 1 year parts warranty, right?  Unless I missed the joke?


----------



## bearFNF

fiascogarcia said:


> What is the deal with mention of a lifetime warranty?  Cavalli manual says it has only a 1 year parts warranty, right?  Unless I missed the joke?



Cavalli upgraded the warranty to be a lifetime warranty check out this thread also: http://www.head-fi.org/t/797245/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-loyalty-upgrade-discount#post_12314375


----------



## warrenpchi

fiascogarcia said:


> What is the deal with mention of a lifetime warranty?


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty


----------



## bearFNF

Oh yeah that thread, also. There's too many carbon threads floating around out there.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Yeah, that's part of Warren's master plan...


----------



## bearFNF

I guess that is 1 way to advertise. have a bunch of threads floating around. Just hard to keep the story straight.


----------



## Jozurr

What would be great is to have all the other threads closed and one thread open for discussion now that the fundamentals are established. Would make following discussion on the amp so much easier.


----------



## warrenpchi

Hmm, I'll talk to @Currawong to figure out what's the best way to tidy everything up.


----------



## Evshrug

jlbrach said:


> [COLOR=FF0000]Basically, I've come to learn that upgrading the headphone is one of the best values up till about $200... after that, headphones DO continue to improve, but more potential will be unlocked by better and better systems. I'm expecting my audio chain to cost well more than my future headphones.[/COLOR]
> 
> I will tell you from years of experience that there most definitely a a law of diminishing returns but it kicks in quite a bit above 200 dollars....




Let me explain my thinking (which you quoted in red). Under a hundred dollars and several headphones leading up to $100, many are designed to be sensitive and easy enough to power out of a phone or directly to a laptop/PC. But then, as the price rises, you have the T50RP and headphones based on that, the AKG K702 variants, Beyerdynamic DT headphones, Sennheiser HD6xx headphones... You start to very noticably cripple the performance of the headphones you spent extra money on in the hopes of outperforming the typical Koss/Grado/AT M50x/Sennheiser HD 5xx series... without a good desktop amp, these "better" headphones over $200 can subjectively sound more fatiguing or less enjoyable than the technically "worse" headphone.

My own experience with the inexpensive AKG K612 has seen fairly substantial improvements based on amping. I've also seen people kinda hate the HD800, when the signature of a headphone like that really reacts to the amp too. There's a bunch of Cavalli threads now, and many people I trust from different groups give distinct observations about how the HD800 sounds good with an amp of the same price, but scales with a Liquid Gold, Liquid Tungsten, Headtrip, ALO's huge overbuilt amp, Questyle's desktop amps, etc. Finishing, perfecting the performance of a capable headphone with the signature you love, it looks like there is merit to looking at a headphone as just part of a system. There is merit in considering the fact that headphones experience diminishing returns usually at an earlier cost than the signal chain equipment.


----------



## Currawong

@warrenpchi I've locked the warranty thread so far. What other threads are there now? 
  
 For everyone's sanity, we've set upon having one main thread and one impressions thread for popular products for the most part, though that idea could be re-visited especially if I can get a particular new feature coded into the forums.


----------



## eddie0817

Hi all,
  
 Is anyone know when and where can purchase liquid spark, I am not able to join CanJam, so that can't try it, thanks.


----------



## x RELIC x

eddie0817 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone know when and where can purchase liquid spark, I am not able to join CanJam, so that can't try it, thanks.




From Cavalli Audio's website when they release it. It isn't released yet and there is no official release date.


----------



## buke9

eddie0817 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone know when and where can purchase liquid spark, I am not able to join CanJam, so that can't try it, thanks.


 
 I believe it will be sometime in April that it will go on pre-order.


----------



## fastmike

What about the second run of the Liquid Carbon? Any updates on that? 

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk


----------



## Stillhart

fastmike said:


> What about the second run of the Liquid Carbon? Any updates on that?


 
  
 I heard they were working with Valve to bundle in a free copy of Half-Life 3 with every unit, that's what's taking so long...


----------



## heliosphann

stillhart said:


> I heard they were working with Valve to bundle in a free copy of Half-Life 3 with every unit, that's what's taking so long...


 
 Also waiting for GnR to reunite.
  
 Er, wait a minute. Nevermind...


----------



## Stillhart

heliosphann said:


> Also waiting for GnR to reunite.
> 
> Er, wait a minute. Nevermind...


 
  
 Well that happened this weekend... maybe they'll announce it tomorrow then?


----------



## heliosphann

stillhart said:


> Well that happened this weekend... maybe they'll announce it tomorrow then?


 
 One can only hope. I'd love for as many people to have LC's as possible, but damn do I want to play some HL3.


----------



## warrenpchi

fastmike said:


> What about the second run of the Liquid Carbon? Any updates on that?


 
  
 Yes.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run


----------



## BucketInABucket

warrenpchi said:


> Yes.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run


 
 Any chance of an upgrade option for gen1 LC owners? That SE noise issue was getting kind of old...


----------



## Peridot

bucketinabucket said:


> Any chance of an upgrade option for gen1 LC owners? That SE noise issue was getting kind of old...


 
  
 It is a little cheeky to describe fixing a flaw as a 'surprise' bonus, but that is a nice package to sweeten the price uplift.


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> It is a little cheeky to describe fixing a flaw as a 'surprise' bonus, but that is a nice package to sweeten the price uplift.


 
  
 Why do you say that?  They had no need to change anything about the unit.  Used ones were selling for $800 so clearly this "flaw" wasn't bothering people.  But they decided to improve it anyways... I don't find that cheeky, personally, but as with anything in this hobby YMMV.


----------



## yage

stillhart said:


> Why do you say that?  They had no need to change anything about the unit.  Used ones were selling for $800 so clearly this "flaw" wasn't bothering people.  But they decided to improve it anyways... I don't find that cheeky, personally, but as with anything in this hobby YMMV.


 

 I sold my LC precisely because of the noise issue on SE. I feel that it shouldn't have been an issue to begin with (along with the XLR in -> SE out hum problem) but as you say, YMMV.


----------



## Peridot

stillhart said:


> Why do you say that?  They had no need to change anything about the unit.  Used ones were selling for $800 so clearly this "flaw" wasn't bothering people.  But they decided to improve it anyways... I don't find that cheeky, personally, but as with anything in this hobby YMMV.


 
  
 It doesn't bother me particularly either, but a significant amount of power supply noise appearing on an amplifier's output is a design or manufacturing flaw. I don't see any other way to describe it.
  
 Good that it's been fixed and good that many more people will have the opportunity to own a great little amp.


----------



## Stillhart

yage said:


> I sold my LC precisely because of the noise issue on SE. I feel that it shouldn't have been an issue to begin with (along with the XLR in -> SE out hum problem) but as you say, YMMV.


 
  
 Generally speaking, amps designed to be run in balanced mode will sound much worse from the SE jack, which is often included only as a convenience.  Expecting it to sound equally good from both ports seems unrealistic *to me*.  Agree to disagree here.


peridot said:


> It doesn't bother me particularly either, but a significant amount of power supply noise appearing on an amplifier's output is a design or manufacturing flaw. I don't see any other way to describe it.
> 
> Good that it's been fixed and good that many more people will have the opportunity to own a great little amp.


 
  
 "Fixed" implies what... complete silence?  They've said it'll be improved, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll point out again that this is a balanced amp and you shouldn't expect miracles from the SE jack.


----------



## yage

stillhart said:


> Generally speaking, amps designed to be run in balanced mode will sound much worse from the SE jack, which is often included only as a convenience.  Expecting it to sound equally good from both ports seems unrealistic *to me*.  Agree to disagree here.


 
  
 Really? Because the Ayre Codex is fully balanced and sounds great single ended and is dead quiet. If the SE jack is a 'convenience' as you assert, then why even include one when performance will be so poor that some consider it a deal breaker? Non-sensical *to me*.


----------



## defbear

I now feel as if I have one of the first 'Test' units. 500 amps with substandard power supplies. Poor re-sale value. Will Cavalli support his original LC owners?


----------



## jlbrach

I had a problem with mine,i sent it back in and it was returned and thus far works perfectly.....i dont think you have to worry


----------



## Evshrug

defbear said:


> I now feel as if I have one of the first 'Test' units. 500 amps with substandard power supplies. Poor re-sale value. Will Cavalli support his original LC owners?



Substandard? I disagree, the SE output is quieter than some of my other SE-only amps. I don't hear any noise on my fullsized headphones. I don't use my CIEMs at my desk. You may not be able to sell your LC for $800 anymore (as that's what the new run costs), but somehow I doubt a flipper would have held on to something for this long.

You probably could buy the upgraded PSU if you want. I still feel I got a great value for the $600 I paid.


----------



## AxelCloris

Back in 2006 I took delivery of my new Ford Focus. I've now had her for going on 10 years. I purchased it in July and the 2007 models started arriving on the lots a month later. The new models had obvious improvements over the one I purchased, but I knew that it was unreasonable to expect Ford to take my car and apply those upgrades. That's not how the market typically operates. If there was a glaring flaw that could potentially kill me, Ford would recall the car and apply a fix, sure. If my 6-CD changer took 15 seconds longer to load a disc than the newer model Ford wouldn't do jack. Cavalli has repaired several LCs that did have legitimate issues and from an outsider's perspective they handled each quickly. The LC 2.0 is available and comes with a minor improvement, and as a result it's now $200 more expensive as well. That sounds reasonable to me.
  
 Now a question for those who have purchased the LC with the sole intent of using it as a single ended amp. Why? Why would you buy an amp that is 100% balanced - no matter what source you're feeding it - and have no desire to take advantage of your purchase by using a balanced headphone? Sure there are plenty of headphones that are only single ended, but there are multiple SE amps that I would grab over the LC's SE output at its $600 price point. It's like buying a Ferrari and only using it to go get the mail at the end of your driveway. If you plan to eventually take the Ferrari to a track or even simply an open highway, then I get it. The Ferrari won't perform the job as well as say a simple golf cart because it takes up more space and will guzzle gas like a thirsty boar, but you're just biding your time until you can open up the taps and take advantage of the Ferrari's immense power. It makes no sense to buy such an amazingly powerful and expensive vehicle if you're never going to drive more than 15 mph unless you have piles of money to burn.
  
 Resale value is diminished? I see the opposite in fact. I'm sure plenty of people would love to save $200 on a LC. If they use it balanced then it doesn't matter that the newer version is quieter on the 1/4" jack. I expect the $600 units to continue selling quite well on the classifieds. And did Cavalli at any point say they wouldn't support the first gen buyers? $600 off a flagship amp? Check. Lifetime warranty? Uh huh. Quick response on the forums? Yup. And a substandard power supply? I'm pretty sure mine doesn't run on gerbils and hasn't burnt my house down. It's still a perfectly functioning power supply that continues to feed quality power to my balanced amplifier.


----------



## gordec

Have my alarm set. This would complete my desktop setup!!!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## fiascogarcia

defbear said:


> I now feel as if I have one of the first 'Test' units. 500 amps with substandard power supplies. Poor re-sale value. Will Cavalli support his original LC owners?


 
 I personally have yet to see one selling for less than the original purchase price.  I can't think of very many amps, dacs, daps, etc., that have maintained that type of value.


----------



## bluesaint

fiascogarcia said:


> I personally have yet to see one selling for less than the original purchase price.  I can't think of very many amps, dacs, daps, etc., that have maintained that type of value.


 
 heck, i just bought a used first batch for $630


----------



## gordec

Does the Carbon have optical in? I can't find any spec sheets on this. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Hansotek

gordec said:


> Does the Carbon have optical in? I can't find any spec sheets on this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


 
  
 No. It is an amp, not a DAC. There are no digital inputs.


----------



## doctorjazz

Yup, you need a source (DAC, DAP, turntable/phone pre) to feed the signal to the LC for amplification. (use my Pono line out quite a bit, or PC/Geek Out).


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

axelcloris said:


> Back in 2006 I took delivery of my new Ford Focus. I've now had her for going on 10 years. I purchased it in July and the 2007 models started arriving on the lots a month later. The new models had obvious improvements over the one I purchased, but I knew that it was unreasonable to expect Ford to take my car and apply those upgrades. That's not how the market typically operates. If there was a glaring flaw that could potentially kill me, Ford would recall the car and apply a fix, sure. If my 6-CD changer took 15 seconds longer to load a disc than the newer model Ford wouldn't do jack. Cavalli has repaired several LCs that did have legitimate issues and from an outsider's perspective they handled each quickly. The LC 2.0 is available and comes with a minor improvement, and as a result it's now $200 more expensive as well. That sounds reasonable to me.
> 
> Now a question for those who have purchased the LC with the sole intent of using it as a single ended amp. Why? Why would you buy an amp that is 100% balanced - no matter what source you're feeding it - and have no desire to take advantage of your purchase by using a balanced headphone? Sure there are plenty of headphones that are only single ended, but there are multiple SE amps that I would grab over the LC's SE output at its $600 price point. It's like buying a Ferrari and only using it to go get the mail at the end of your driveway. If you plan to eventually take the Ferrari to a track or even simply an open highway, then I get it. The Ferrari won't perform the job as well as say a simple golf cart because it takes up more space and will guzzle gas like a thirsty boar, but you're just biding your time until you can open up the taps and take advantage of the Ferrari's immense power. It makes no sense to buy such an amazingly powerful and expensive vehicle if you're never going to drive more than 15 mph unless you have piles of money to burn.
> 
> Resale value is diminished? I see the opposite in fact. I'm sure plenty of people would love to save $200 on a LC. If they use it balanced then it doesn't matter that the newer version is quieter on the 1/4" jack. I expect the $600 units to continue selling quite well on the classifieds. And did Cavalli at any point say they wouldn't support the first gen buyers? $600 off a flagship amp? Check. Lifetime warranty? Uh huh. Quick response on the forums? Yup. And a substandard power supply? I'm pretty sure mine doesn't run on gerbils and hasn't burnt my house down. It's still a perfectly functioning power supply that continues to feed quality power to my balanced amplifier.


 

 Strong agreement. I'd understand if this were LH Labs, coming out with new products before they've shipped previous ones and not responding to emails, queries, and support tickets. But Cavalli has gone above and beyond for first run LC owners. First, the whole idea of an amp that powerful for $600 was a gift to the community. And then they continued to support it with a lifetime warranty (which is transferable to new owners!) and a significant discount on their higher end amps. Warren sticks around here to answer questions probably far more than is healthy for the CEO of a company.
  
 I'm sure if you put up your LC for sale right now at the original $599 price, someone will gobble it up and you can use that money to put towards the new version. Or spend the difference on some balanced cables for your headphones and don't even worry about the SE out anymore. Or continue to use the SE out and remember you paid $200 less than what buyers of the new version will be paying.


----------



## swspiers

axelcloris said:


> Back in 2006 I took delivery of my new Ford Focus. I've now had her for going on 10 years. I purchased it in July and the 2007 models started arriving on the lots a month later. The new models had obvious improvements over the one I purchased, but I knew that it was unreasonable to expect Ford to take my car and apply those upgrades. That's not how the market typically operates. If there was a glaring flaw that could potentially kill me, Ford would recall the car and apply a fix, sure. If my 6-CD changer took 15 seconds longer to load a disc than the newer model Ford wouldn't do jack. Cavalli has repaired several LCs that did have legitimate issues and from an outsider's perspective they handled each quickly. The LC 2.0 is available and comes with a minor improvement, and as a result it's now $200 more expensive as well. That sounds reasonable to me.
> 
> Now a question for those who have purchased the LC with the sole intent of using it as a single ended amp. Why? Why would you buy an amp that is 100% balanced - no matter what source you're feeding it - and have no desire to take advantage of your purchase by using a balanced headphone? Sure there are plenty of headphones that are only single ended, but there are multiple SE amps that I would grab over the LC's SE output at its $600 price point. It's like buying a Ferrari and only using it to go get the mail at the end of your driveway. If you plan to eventually take the Ferrari to a track or even simply an open highway, then I get it. The Ferrari won't perform the job as well as say a simple golf cart because it takes up more space and will guzzle gas like a thirsty boar, but you're just biding your time until you can open up the taps and take advantage of the Ferrari's immense power. It makes no sense to buy such an amazingly powerful and expensive vehicle if you're never going to drive more than 15 mph unless you have piles of money to burn.
> 
> Resale value is diminished? I see the opposite in fact. I'm sure plenty of people would love to save $200 on a LC. If they use it balanced then it doesn't matter that the newer version is quieter on the 1/4" jack. I expect the $600 units to continue selling quite well on the classifieds. And did Cavalli at any point say they wouldn't support the first gen buyers? $600 off a flagship amp? Check. Lifetime warranty? Uh huh. Quick response on the forums? Yup. And a substandard power supply? I'm pretty sure mine doesn't run on gerbils and hasn't burnt my house down. It's still a perfectly functioning power supply that continues to feed quality power to my balanced amplifier.




Post of the year so far! It's worth repeating...


----------



## buke9

swspiers said:


> Post of the year so far! It's worth repeating...


 
 +1


----------



## yage

axelcloris said:


> Now a question for those who have purchased the LC with the sole intent of using it as a single ended amp. Why?


 
  
 Uh... because the designer decided to put a single-ended output on the amp? Because some headphones you can't get in a balanced configuration? Because sometimes when you're trying out other headphones, the makers don't include a balanced cable? Because to some people $600 is a lot of money and they liked the idea of having a transportable Cavalli product that could've powered all their headphones?
  
 I dunno. Perhaps that's what the Spark is for.
  
 Frankly, it doesn't matter. I don't have an axe to grind but let's call a spade a spade. There's an SE output on the Liquid Carbon and it sucks, at least for sensitive headphones. For headphones like the HD 600, I could still detect a strange 'pressure' on my eardrums with it hooked up and no music playing. Then there was the balanced in / SE out hum issue which was banished with a quick trip to Austin, TX but which happened when I first received the amp, hooked it up, and turned it on. So much for first impressions. From my perspective, my firsthand experience along with reading the other issues owners thus far have faced leads me to think that this 'gateway' product got the short shrift when it came to engineering or testing. I don't think it translates to the 'premium' amps and yet...
  
 But then turn to around and spin the power supply / SE out fix as a 'feature' that costs more money - that's just galling. That implies you knew there was a defect *and* you knew how to fix it, but you didn't. I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for that.


----------



## bearFNF

Actually, Alex said during the proto stages, the next batch, if he made one, would be more expensive. And now, that there is one, at a higher price, like he said it would be...just sayin'
  
 Oh and the Noise has been there since the protos, also, like we that listened to it reported on the CanJam threads and the Carbon threads, so if you have been following the development and reading the reviews, this should not have been a surprise.
  
 Shame on Alex for trying to make it batter in the next batch...and doing what he said he would do...Sheesh give the guy a break already. It was a learning experience for us all.


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> Actually, Alex said during the proto stages, the next batch, if he made one, would be more expensive. And now, that there is one, at a higher price, like he said it would be...just sayin'
> 
> Oh and the Noise has been there since the protos, also, like we that listened to it reported on the CanJam threads and the Carbon threads, so if you have been following the development and reading the reviews, this should not have been a surprise.
> 
> Shame on Alex for trying to make it batter in the next batch...and doing what he said he would do...Sheesh give the guy a break already. It was a learning experience for us all.


I know. Last night, I was looking at JH Audio 'Angie' IEM's. Then today, I find 'Angie II'. The whaling an gnashing of teeth. And I've had my HD800 set for less than a year. So Sennheiser upgrades them to HD800S after 16 years. Life goes on. Everything sounds just as lovely as it did the day before.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, oh, I have roxanne II'S on the way....  
They went to metal sockets on the earpeices...among other changes. ..
And luckily I didn't care for the HD800S....


----------



## Hansotek

yage said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > Now a question for those who have purchased the LC with the sole intent of using it as a single ended amp. Why?
> ...




So let me get this straight. Cavalli makes an affordable amp as a giveback to the community Alex considers family and essentially sells it at a loss, fixes any issues that come up with it and then backs it with a lifetime guarantee, says outright from that (while none were yet planned) any future runs would have to be more expensive by necessity (because they are running a business, after all), listens to customers, fixes the known complaints before doing a second run, and packs in more bonuses than you can shake a stick at to ensure people who have to pay the market price still feel they are getting a good value... what you're saying there's no excuse for that?

There's no excuse for listening to customers, fixing their issues and trying to provide them with good value? Dude, I don't know where your coming from, but where I'm from that's called trying to do right by people. 

There is no grand conspiracy. There is no big lie. There is no appalling truth. You can't sell a product at a loss and stay in business. They're not selling an upgraded PSU for $200. They're just selling the product for regular price.


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> Yep, oh, I have roxanne II'S on the way....
> They went to metal sockets on the earpeices...among other changes. ..
> And luckily I didn't care for the HD800S....


I got the balanced Norne Draug 2 cable for the hd800 and an upgraded Supra power cable + outlets for the LC. Both were an improvement. What else changed on the JH Siren's?


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> I got the balanced Norne Draug 2 cable for the hd800 and an upgraded Supra power cable + outlets for the LC. Both were an improvement. What else changed on the JH Siren's?




Apparently, according to JH, just the shells (including connectors) and the cable. The internal drivers are the same, and it should sound the same, cable sonics excluded, if you believe in them.

Edit: Yes, the Roxanne is tweaked, the Layla and Angie audio circuit is the same. My bad.


----------



## bearFNF

x relic x said:


> Apparently, according to JH, just the shells (including connectors) and the cable. The internal drivers are the same, and it should sound the same, cable sonics excluded, if you believe in them.


Better go check their site. That is not what Andy told me...we should take this discussion elsewhere to not derail the thread any further.


----------



## x RELIC x

bearfnf said:


> Better go check their site. That is not what Andy told me...we should take this discussion elsewhere to not derail the thread any further.




Agreed. PM sent.


----------



## Evshrug

yage said:


> Uh... because the designer decided to put a single-ended output on the amp? Because some headphones you can't get in a balanced configuration? Because sometimes when you're trying out other headphones, the makers don't include a balanced cable? Because to some people $600 is a lot of money and they liked the idea of having a transportable Cavalli product that could've powered all their headphones?
> 
> I dunno. Perhaps that's what the Spark is for.
> 
> Frankly, it doesn't matter. I don't have an axe to grind but let's call a spade a spade. There's an SE output on the Liquid Carbon and it sucks.




You lost me right there with that exaggeration. Totally going to call you on that.

I am one of the crazies who bought the carbon, despite not owning a balanced headphone (yet). I want to someday, and I did get to try it with a loaner ZMF Vibro mk II, but usually these days I'm using it with an AKG K612 and K712, with no complaints. I only have unbalanced DACs; I won't complain about the output of the Theta DSPro Basic II! Like you I had to send my LC in for service once... when I got the Vibro and tried out the XLR output, something went wrong and killed what I think was the phase splitter (I'm not the guy that fixed it, so I don't know). THAT was bad, sounded like the Rythmns of a spaceship before one of my channels stopped working, but like you I asked Cavalli for help and like you they very quickly shipped and fixed it totally. I don't follow ALL the Carbon threads, but I know that a handful (of 500) had the same issue, but theirs were also promptly fixed.

So, again I usually use headphones with 62 and 120 ohms, but JUST FOR YOU I grabbed a few lower ohm and more sensitive headphones I have (and wouldn't use with the LC).

First up is a Blaster X H7 gaming headset. It's a gaming headset with a mic and one of those annoying do-dads inline with the cable for muting the mic, a dial (and resistor) for volume, even a little DAC/Amp if you plug into a computer (but you bypass if you plug in a 3.5mm cable). Test: put the headphone on, let the pads stop crinkling. Quiet. Plug the headset into the LC with the LC on. There's a pop of the power connection made, then quiet. Turn off the amp, turn the amp back on. Pop, then quiet. Not a sucky SE performance.

Next headphone: V-Moda M-100. Another closed headphone, so it also provides a quiet room while it's on-ear. Again I put it on first and let the pads settle. Quiet. Plug into active LC. Pop. Quiet. Turn off LC, turn back on. Pop. Quiet. Done.

Next I got my FiiO EX1, which are IEMs. Put them on. Quiet. Slightly uncomfortable (I hate almost all rubber tips, need to buy some Complys). Turn on the amp. Pop. HEY! I can hear a quiet whishb-whishb-whishb. It's pretty quiet though, is it distracting with music? I play a half a song ("Secret Love" by Claire Martin), seems pretty good! Pause the song. Hey! It's silent! Maybe if I turn the amp off and back on again? Turn the amp off (other than the click of the switch through the IEM seal, I don't hear any change). Turn the amp back on. Pop. Silent. Huh! I check it three more times, no background sound at all. Theory: the LC needs a few seconds to warm up? Anyway it seemed that once the amp has been on for a bit, I can't reproduce the sound anymore if I turn it off and turn it back on within a few seconds.

Last test, and I'm only being this thorough because I'm not able to reproduce Def and yage's hiss/hum issue: my Custom Art Pro330v2 CIEMs. These are really sensitive, have 3 drivers and the associated crossovers, 114dB @1kHz @0.1V, 21Ohm @1kHz, and pick up noise on the Creative X7 and E5 (slightly less). Put on the CIEMs. Turn off LC, plug in the CIEMs. Quiet. Turn on the LC. Pop. Quiet. Turn on some music - OW that's just a bit louder than comfortable! Still had the volume set where the FiiO's were. Pause the music again, turn on high gain (red LED). Yep, there's a little noise. Go back to low gain, turn up the volume. I can start hearing noise around 12 O'clock... THIS WOULD BE WAAAAAAAAAY TOO LOUD TO LISTEN TO.

In summary, myth = busted. No, the amp isn't completely silent... if you use it incorrectly with super sensitive headphones. I don't know who told yage that his amp suddenly sounds worse as soon as a new model was released, but the tests I just did are repeatable and I encourage anyone to try it. The low-noise spec was actually a touted feature of the initial release, even lower-measurable noise (a difference beyond hearing) with balanced XLR or RSA/Kobiconn connections, and the fact that the new batch was designed even more obsessively than the first is no reason to lament. Plus, feet and power cables! Hey!


----------



## defbear

defbear said:


> Everything sounds just as lovely as it did the day before.



I quote myself from above.


----------



## fiascogarcia

yage said:


> From my perspective, my firsthand experience along with reading the other issues owners thus far have faced leads me to think that this 'gateway' product got the short shrift when it came to engineering or testing.


 
 I knew about the SE hum, but what other issues are you referring to?  Thanks!


----------



## cskippy

FWIW, I don't get any hum single ended out of most of my cans.  TH-X00 there is a little hum but it's better than hiss from my Project Ember.  I wouldn't think to use sensitive IEMs with the Carbon.  That's just overkill.  
  
 EDIT: There does seem to be a grounding issue with XLR in and SE out.  But attach an RCA cables as well and that goes away.


----------



## purk

evshrug said:


> You lost me right there with that exaggeration. Totally going to call you on that.
> 
> 
> 
> *In summary, myth = busted. *No, the amp isn't completely silent... if you use it incorrectly with super sensitive headphones. I don't know who told yage that his amp suddenly sounds worse as soon as a new model was released, but the tests I just did are repeatable and I encourage anyone to try it. The low-noise spec was actually a touted feature of the initial release, even lower-measurable noise (a difference beyond hearing) with balanced XLR or RSA/Kobiconn connections, and the fact that the new batch was designed even more obsessively than the first is no reason to lament. Plus, feet and power cables! Hey!


 
 Myth is not bused.  My unit was also sent back to address the hum issue and the hum was very audible even on a low volume level.  There was also a channel imbalanced issue as well when either single-end inputs are used.  I don't think your unit has a problem despite some minor humming issue but mine did for sure.


----------



## Stillhart

purk said:


> Myth is not bused.  My unit was also sent back to address the hum issue and the hum was very audible even on a low volume level.  There was also a channel imbalanced issue as well when either single-end inputs are used.  I don't think your unit has a problem despite some minor humming issue but mine did for sure.


 
  
 But yours was fixed?  You're using past tense...


----------



## fishyee

A 2nd run of the Carbon doesn't make the 1st run sound any worse. 
  
 However, I believe from a marketing standpoint that it is poor practice for high-end brands to do 2nd runs on "limited" models.  Anyone who has spent some time in business understands how much psychology drives business.  Make people feel special when they buy your product and you get instant loyalty.  Many guaranteed "Lifers".  Harness the scarcity phenomenon to drive desire.  Retire it as a classic.  Let the Lifers be your best salespeople ...  don't mess with that special feeling.
  
 Just my opinion ...


----------



## musiclvr

fishyee said:


> A 2nd run of the Carbon doesn't make the 1st run sound any worse.
> 
> However, I believe from a marketing standpoint that it is poor practice for high-end brands to do 2nd runs on "limited" models.  Anyone who has spent some time in business understands how much psychology drives business.  Make people feel special when they buy your product and you get instant loyalty.  Many guaranteed "Lifers".  Harness the scarcity phenomenon to drive desire.  Retire it as a classic.  Let the Lifers be your best salespeople ...  don't mess with that special feeling.
> 
> Just my opinion ...



I too share this sentiment. Well articulated fishyee.


----------



## purk

stillhart said:


> But yours was fixed?  You're using past tense...


 
 Yes, Alex did the mod to lower the noise level.  Since I got back I have only listened to it via balanced connection.  I can report back tomorrow regarding the current noise/hum level on my Carbon via SE output.


----------



## Stillhart

fishyee said:


> A 2nd run of the Carbon doesn't make the 1st run sound any worse.
> 
> However, I believe from a marketing standpoint that it is poor practice for high-end brands to do 2nd runs on "limited" models.  Anyone who has spent some time in business understands how much psychology drives business.  Make people feel special when they buy your product and you get instant loyalty.  Many guaranteed "Lifers".  Harness the scarcity phenomenon to drive desire.  Retire it as a classic.  Let the Lifers be your best salespeople ...  don't mess with that special feeling.
> 
> Just my opinion ...


 
  
 I would argue that jacking the price by 33% is still a good way to keep the first-run buyers feeling special.  Not to mention feeling special with things like the transferrable lifetime warranty and upgrade discounts that make the LC FREE if you buy a big amp.  
  
 Also, as has already been mentioned, they've always hinted that they might do another run even from the very beginning.  They never said it would be the only run, just that that run was limited.  Just sayin...


----------



## Evshrug

purk said:


> Yes, Alex did the mod to lower the noise level.  Since I got back I have only listened to it via balanced connection.  I can report back tomorrow regarding the current noise/hum level on my Carbon via SE output.




Well I said the test was repeatable. Sounds like it's not an issue for you anyway since you haven't listened to SE since you got it back.

Mine didn't have an issue with hum when I first got it either. There was an issue with the XLR output that made a weird sound, killed a channel, and then killed the whole amp in a matter of ten minutes or so (neither output worked), but then Cavalli fixed it. Issues happen, especially with a new product and new process (the Carbon was Cavalli's first mass production run), and they're frustrating, but they don't happen to everyone if the design is good and ultimately the customer service defines the experience for the small % that need it. It wasn't a mod, it was a parts defect repair.
-----

I too like Fishyee's articulation about how limited = collectible. Being part of a group able to say "I got a Carbon for $600" or "I got the $150 Phillips X1 lightning sale on Amazon" is a shared experience but not quite the same as collectible... Though I would say two chances to buy a total of 1000-limited amps is both fair chance and collectable compared to a stable offering like Schiit's Lyr 2 or Sennheiser HD600.

I also see Stillhart's point that Runeight said from the beginning that if they made more it would cost more, and that both "mores" came true. $600 was a stretch for my ability to afford last year, so $800 would have been something I missed out on. For those that missed out on getting one before, maybe waiting on reviews or hoping for a second run, it seems like Cavalli is giving a fair chance to own one.

We'll see what Cavalli ends up doing inbetween the Liquid Spark and the Tungsten... Probably something! This whole production batches thing is new to me, kinda interesting. Well, mostly new. I have a first-batch FiiO E12! The one with the sub-bass boost switch, which I still feel is unique compared to the current production and among most other amps out there that have any hardware EQ feature.


----------



## swspiers

fishyee said:


> A 2nd run of the Carbon doesn't make the 1st run sound any worse.
> 
> However, I believe from a marketing standpoint that it is poor practice for high-end brands to do 2nd runs on "limited" models.  Anyone who has spent some time in business understands how much psychology drives business.  Make people feel special when they buy your product and you get instant loyalty.  Many guaranteed "Lifers".  Harness the scarcity phenomenon to drive desire.  Retire it as a classic.  Let the Lifers be your best salespeople ...  don't mess with that special feeling.
> 
> Just my opinion ...




Unless they re-start the serial numbers, I still have a special feeling...

I also congratulate Cavalli for being so successful with the Carbons. Me- I'm pretty skittish. Seeing some of the responses and accusations, I wouldn't offer another run. No way. No matter what they do, people just HAVE to put a negative spin on things.

Though to be honest, I would like a T-Shirt. Maybe a limited-edition T for the first 500. You know- to make us feel special


----------



## Hansotek

fishyee said:


> A 2nd run of the Carbon doesn't make the 1st run sound any worse.
> 
> However, I believe from a marketing standpoint that it is poor practice for high-end brands to do 2nd runs on "limited" models.  Anyone who has spent some time in business understands how much psychology drives business.  Make people feel special when they buy your product and you get instant loyalty.  Many guaranteed "Lifers".  Harness the scarcity phenomenon to drive desire.  Retire it as a classic.  Let the Lifers be your best salespeople ...  don't mess with that special feeling.
> 
> Just my opinion ...



I don't understand how a 25% savings, a lifetime warranty on all first run Liquid Carbons and a $600 exclusive discount offer through the Cavalli Upgrade Program doesn't leave you feeling super, super special.

I'm pretty sure that's unprecedented.


----------



## Rei87

Intending to hop onto the next run....but it seems to be an amp that is targeted towards the headphone community....which emans that it may be a tad bit too strong for my CIEMS...

 On another note, transparency, neutrality with a hint of colour to prevent an overly clinical sterile sound seems to be the key signature of this amp. Any current owners able to chime in and verify if this is true? I'll be very put off it it turned out to be some bass monster.....


----------



## gordec

I'm pretty sure I'm ordering in 2 hours. Does the current owners have other recommendations or suggestions to consider for LCD3 with a low profile setup? I'm feeding ifi micro iDSD to it.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## fiascogarcia

I bought an LC from the original owner based on the impressions from this and the other threads, with the full knowledge that to fully enjoy it I would need to go balanced with my headphone cables.  That basically eliminated my concern about the SE noise issue, and the lifetime warranty sealed the deal for me.  Frankly, the exclusivity angle never really crossed my mind.  I was more interested in great sq at a reasonable (by head-fi standards) price, so I was hoping that I wouldn't be disappointed (in myself) for not waiting for the second run should Cavalli change or "improve"  the LC sonic characteristics with the new run models. That doesn't appear to be the case, so I'm happy with my purchase and not at all discouraged that more buyers will have the opportunity to own this amp.


----------



## fiascogarcia

rei87 said:


> Intending to hop onto the next run....but it seems to be an amp that is targeted towards the headphone community....which emans that it may be a tad bit too strong for my CIEMS...
> 
> On another note, transparency, neutrality with a hint of colour to prevent an overly clinical sterile sound seems to be the key signature of this amp. Any current owners able to chime in and verify if this is true? I'll be very put off it it turned out to be some bass monster.....


 
 Don't know what ciems you're using, but it works great on low gain with my K10's, with plenty of volume control.  Only way I would consider it overkill would be if you are using it exclusively for in ears.  Your description of the sound characteristics, in my opinion, is a fairly accurate portrayal.


----------



## Evshrug

swspiers said:


> Unless they re-start the serial numbers, I still have a special feeling...
> 
> I also congratulate Cavalli for being so successful with the Carbons. Me- I'm pretty skittish. Seeing some of the responses and accusations, I wouldn't offer another run. No way. No matter what they do, people just HAVE to put a negative spin on things.
> 
> Though to be honest, I would like a T-Shirt. Maybe a limited-edition T for the first 500. You know- to make us feel special




I saw pics of the T-Shirts, they look pretty bada**. From a distance, they look like they could be from a Karate School, lol!


----------



## Evshrug

rei87 said:


> Intending to hop onto the next run....but it seems to be an amp that is targeted towards the headphone community....which emans that it may be a tad bit too strong for my CIEMS...
> 
> 
> On another note, transparency, neutrality with a hint of colour to prevent an overly clinical sterile sound seems to be the key signature of this amp. Any current owners able to chime in and verify if this is true? I'll be very put off it it turned out to be some bass monster.....



What 1/4" to 1/8" adapter do you use? Right now I kinda squeeze mine into a screw-on adapter (not ideal), used to have a V-Moda one that looked like a bullet, loved that.


----------



## fiascogarcia

evshrug said:


> What 1/4" to 1/8" adapter do you use? Right now I kinda squeeze mine into a screw-on adapter (not ideal), used to have a V-Moda one that looked like a bullet, loved that.


 
 Furutech makes nice ones that you just snap on securely.  Kind of pricey though ($20).


----------



## yage

Quote:


evshrug said:


> You lost me right there with that exaggeration. Totally going to call you on that.
> ...


 
  
 Look, apologies for making you use your amp "incorrectly", but you could have saved yourself some time by realizing that by advertising the fact that the power supply was fixed so the SE output has lower noise is basically a tacit admission that this issue is a real phenomena and kind of a big deal. Otherwise, why mention it? If I'm given a feature on a product, I think I have a reasonable expectation that it works under normal circumstances. A VISO HP50 isn't a super-sensitive headphone, but I could clearly hear the noise (a pulsing buzz) on my unit before I sold it and on another Head-Fi'er's Liquid Carbon during a recent meet - even with the volume knob at a normal level. Circling back to a car analogy another poster made, my Honda Civic had a defective sun visor. Not exactly a life-threatening issue, but a defect nonetheless that was fixed under a service bulletin. On the latest model year's ad did they proclaim - "now with a working driver side sun visor"? No. There was a reasonable expectation that the thing would just work. Or maybe I have, as my drill sergeant once put it, "high freakin' standards." (He may not have used that particular f-word.) Another case in point: at a recent meet I listened to a Head-Fi'er's microZOTL 2.0. It clearly had an intermittent static-y noise coming from the left channel on my LCD-XC's. It was also apparent on Grados. Strangely it disappeared if you listened on the HD 800's. A company rep was standing close by and questions were asked. Eventually he came back and said that they would take the defective unit on the spot and offer a new one in its place. In other words, what's the point of a 'lifetime warranty' if a company doesn't fix what's defective? The thing that strikes me as most odd is that this was a known issue from the beginning. And yet people said it was normal, that 'generally all balanced amps' act this way, when in fact it's not normal and not all balanced amps have this problem because - tada! - they have the solution in hand now: a new power supply.
  
 The second run Carbons are what the first run should've been, plain and simple. Noise in the SE out on the pre-prod version? That's forgivable. I even heard a pre-prod Carbon at a meet, though only in balanced mode, which is what prompted me to get in line for one. I read the initial reports on this thread and thought, "Well maybe by production time..." But I was wrong and took it on the chin. I didn't complain. I got the hum issue fixed and turned around and promptly sold it for what I paid so I was made whole again. Look at the price breakdown of the rev. 2 run - $99 value for the power cable, rubber feet, t-shirt, Amarra license ($34.99) and some overpriced raffle tickets (in effect) for two prizes. The amp still pretty much costs $600, but now is much more versatile. And there's going to be more of them - the artificially tight supply and high demand of Carbons is what kept the value afloat. Yay capitalism and economics! I hope demand stays high, for the sake of the rev. 1 'beta testers'.
  


swspiers said:


> I wouldn't offer another run. No way. No matter what they do, people just HAVE to put a negative spin on things.


 
  
 Yawn. Even if Cavalli Audio thought along these lines, it would be a hollow threat. They're in business to make money off of selling products that people want. And this price bracket is too valuable to cede to Schiit, et al. There will always be a Liquid Carbon / Spark / etc. as long as there is profit in it.


----------



## Stillhart

yage said:


> Quote:
> 
> Look, apologies for making you use your amp "incorrectly", but you could have saved yourself some time by realizing that by advertising the fact that the power supply was fixed so the SE output has lower noise is basically a tacit admission that this issue is a real phenomena and kind of a big deal. Otherwise, why mention it?


 
  
 This is your personal perception kicking in.  There's a big difference between "X is now better" and "X is now fixed".  By your logic, every time anyone releases an improved product, it's them admitting that their previous product was broken.  That really doesn't makes much sense.
  
 Why mention it?  Because it's a change to the previous unit and people tend to get annoyed at secret revisions (looking at you, Audeze).


----------



## yage

stillhart said:


> This is your personal perception kicking in.  There's a big difference between "X is now better" and "X is now fixed".  By your logic, every time anyone releases an improved product, it's them admitting that their previous product was broken.  That really doesn't makes much sense.
> 
> Why mention it?  Because it's a change to the previous unit and people tend to get annoyed at secret revisions (looking at you, Audeze).


 
  
 No - it's not personal perception. Again, this was a known issue from the pre-production version, right? "Everybody knew" this was a problem, yet they brushed this aside with excuses. Now there's a fix that only the new owners are going to get (at this point). The right thing would be to offer the new power supply under the lifetime warranty because the SE out was broken to begin with.


----------



## swspiers

yage said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> evshrug said:
> ...




Dude, by all accounts they're not exactly making money off of these amps. They're more like "loss leaders" in the sense that they introduce people to Cavalli as a whole. Unless you don't buy that, in which case I gotta wonder why you bother with them in the first place.

There's also no way that Cavalli is trying to compete with Schiit at this level, unless they unleash a slew of $100 to $500 amps with crappy ergonomics...


----------



## Stillhart

yage said:


> No - it's not personal perception. Again, this was a known issue from the pre-production version, right? "Everybody knew" this was a problem, yet they brushed this aside with excuses. Now there's a fix that only the new owners are going to get (at this point). The right thing would be to offer the new power supply under the lifetime warranty because the SE out was broken to begin with.


 
  
 You're the one who continually uses the word "problem" and "issue", making it your perception that it's a "fix".
  
 The SE jack is slightly noisy/hissy if you're using sensitive IEM's and crank the volume up to levels that you normally wouldn't listen at.  That was a known feature of the amp.  It wasn't considered a problem at the time because that doesn't represent a real-world listening situation nor does it represent the intended use of the amp (balanced use).  Alex stated repeatedly that it was meant to be used balanced and that's why he included the Kobicon connector for people who wanted to use IEM's.
  
 So yes, it's your perception coloring the issue.  There's nothing broken.  The amp is just a little better now.
  
 And to be clear, if your unit was making more noise than a little hiss at absurd volumes through sensitive IEM's, it was faulty.


----------



## fiascogarcia




----------



## reddog

The last pair of sensitive IEM'S I had the bad luck hearing, I fried them to death, with my mighty Ragnarock lol. So I borrowed my neighbours IEM and I have not heard any hiss, using my Liquid Carbon. I am lucky and my LC does not suffer from that issue. I also used the Meze 99 Classics, with the LC and did not detect any his at moderate listening levels. Hope everyone has a great day jamming out.
P.s. The second gen Liquid Carbon is a great deal for a extremely transportable balanced amp.


----------



## yage

swspiers said:


> Dude, by all accounts they're not exactly making money off of these amps. They're more like "loss leaders" in the sense that they introduce people to Cavalli as a whole. Unless you don't buy that, in which case I gotta wonder why you bother with them in the first place.


 
  
 I bothered because I liked the sound I heard at the meet when I first listened to it and the fact that there were multiple outputs for all the headphones I had at the time (ER-4S, HP50, HD 600 balanced). EDIT: Also wanted to add that the balanced design appealed to me because I have a fully-balanced system (Ayre electronics) at home and was genuinely excited to get everything on the same page. The price certainly sealed the deal. Even though billed as the "loss leader" it should get the same care and attention that goes into their "premium" products since it appeals to a wider audience. If you don't receive a quality product at the entry-level how can you expect to get a quality product at the TOTL?
  


swspiers said:


> There's also no way that Cavalli is trying to compete with Schiit at this level, unless they unleash a slew of $100 to $500 amps with crappy ergonomics...


 
  
 Yeah, at least the power switch was on the front!


----------



## yage

fiascogarcia said:


>


 
  
 Apologies for overstaying my welcome. If anybody wants to discuss further, please send me a PM.


----------



## Evshrug

yage said:


> Quote:
> 
> Look, apologies for making you use your amp "incorrectly", but you could have saved yourself some time by realizing that by advertising the fact that the power supply was fixed so the SE output has lower noise is basically a tacit admission that this issue is a real phenomena and kind of a big deal.
> 
> ...at a recent meet I listened to a Head-Fi'er's microZOTL 2.0. It clearly had an intermittent static-y noise coming from the left channel on my LCD-XC's. ... A company rep was standing close by and questions were asked. Eventually he came back and said that they would take the defective unit on the spot and offer a new one in its place. In other words, what's the point of a 'lifetime warranty' if a company doesn't fix what's defective?



So your second point was that Cavalli's warranty wouldn't fix a PSU issue, while your first point was my observations are invalid because they fixed my PSU? Does that sound like a contradiction to you? 

However, I didn't say I was using my amp "incorrectly." I was saying I've been enjoying SE output while I don't have a balanced headphone yet. I also said I don't think the PSU was replaced in my unit... I think it was the phase splitter. No issue or noise until I used the XLR output, and then they fixed that and I still don't have noise issues.


----------



## yage

evshrug said:


> So your second point was that Cavalli's warranty wouldn't fix a PSU issue, while your first point was my observations are invalid because they fixed my PSU? Does that sound like a contradiction to you?


 
  
 No, I didn't say your observations are invalid for *your particular amp*, merely pointing out the fact that since Cavalli felt it was important enough to address the noisy SE out with a power supply fix in the second revision that you didn't bust any myths. No contradiction there I believe. My second point was that Urban HiFi was willing to replace an entire amp for a noisy output. In light of that, I think a power supply fix for rev. 1 Carbon owners as part of the lifetime warranty is not unreasonable.
  
  


evshrug said:


> I also said I don't think the PSU was replaced in my unit... I think it was the phase splitter. No issue or noise until I used the XLR output, and then they fixed that and I still don't have noise issues.


 
  
 I had a hum from SE out when using balanced inputs that got fixed. When Dr. Cavalli first received my amp, he noted that there was some SE out noise, which he stated was normal. It wasn't a hiss - I've had two amps from other makers where thermal (white) noise was present but not an issue - rather, it was a pulsing buzz that was annoying when listening on the HP50's and the ER-4S's. With the HD 600's, I couldn't hear a buzz, but felt an abnormal pressure on my eardrums instead. This was with the volume knob all the way at the lowest setting. Thinking I got a bad amp, I tested a different Carbon at a Head-Fi meet with my HP50's plugged into the SE out and got the same noise, which seemed to vary with volume knob position.
  
 I appreciate your post, but please PM me if you'd like to discuss further.


----------



## bearFNF




----------



## chowmein83

rei87 said:


> Intending to hop onto the next run....but it seems to be an amp that is targeted towards the headphone community....which emans that it may be a tad bit too strong for my CIEMS...
> 
> On another note, transparency, neutrality with a hint of colour to prevent an overly clinical sterile sound seems to be the key signature of this amp. Any current owners able to chime in and verify if this is true? I'll be very put off it it turned out to be some bass monster.....


 
  
 I thought somebody would have answered your question by the time I got around to replying to this, but I guess not... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyways, as an owner of the LC, I pretty much agree with your statement. For example, I really like it with my Etymotic ER4S - the LC retains the great clarity of the ER4, but warms the sound a tiny bit to make it more enjoyable.
  
 I do think it is a bit strong for sensitive IEMs, even at low gain, but then again I think I'm a rather quiet listener. There won't be much too much movement on the volume pot to play around with (at least based on my experience with the ER4PT), but at least you won't get channel volume imbalance unless the volume knob is really, really low.


----------



## networkn

Sadly, I've had to decide that as much as I think this AMP is awesome, with the increase in cost, with the currency conversion, long lead time, it's not practical to continue lusting after it. No second-hand ones for sale at a reasonable price, which is fine, but yeah, too hard by the looks of it. Shame really.


----------



## Stillhart

networkn said:


> Sadly, I've had to decide that as much as I think this AMP is awesome, with the increase in cost, with the currency conversion, long lead time, it's not practical to continue lusting after it. No second-hand ones for sale at a reasonable price, which is fine, but yeah, too hard by the looks of it. Shame really.


 
  
 Keep an eye on the classifieds.  I don't doubt that people will want to be upgrading and there are two weeks left on the big amps.  You might also put a WTB ad up to see if that entices anyone to sell who might be on the fence.


----------



## defbear

stillhart said:


> You're the one who continually uses the word "problem" and "issue", making it your perception that it's a "fix".
> 
> The SE jack is slightly noisy/hissy if you're using sensitive IEM's and crank the volume up to levels that you normally wouldn't listen at.  That was a known feature of the amp.  It wasn't considered a problem at the time because that doesn't represent a real-world listening situation nor does it represent the intended use of the amp (balanced use).  Alex stated repeatedly that it was meant to be used balanced and that's why he included the Kobicon connector for people who wanted to use IEM's.
> 
> ...


If the original Liquid Carbon had been designed without the Single Ended input they would have sold 90. Even on this board, Most headphones used by the members of head-if are Single Ended. And it was sold 'cheaply'. Most of the cheap stuff is not balanced. On top of that I have a stock set of Fostex TH900's with their 1/4 single ended jack. These headphones are not sensitive IEM's. And when plugged into the SE input of the Liquid Carbon, they can sound like Hendrix's 200 watt Marshall. When the music is not playing there is a ton of hum. I do not have the problem with my Master 11, Lyr2, or ifi idsd. The first 500 Cheap amps were made with cheap power supplies to match. It is a real issue for concern. The SE input on the Cavalli Liquid Carbon is not Audiophile.


----------



## rigo

Yep, that's me. First have to decide if I'm upgrading. If I do then I have to decide between the Glass or Gold. Then would have to put up my LC bedroom stack for sale to help pay for the amp.


----------



## Hansotek

defbear said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > You're the one who continually uses the word "problem" and "issue", making it your perception that it's a "fix".
> ...



Maybe there is a problem with your amp, because I've had no such issue with Fostex phones in the LC. You should email Alex and see if it needs to go in for repair, rather than making the same hyperbolic post in like 16 different threads. I feel like your blasting this post at us through Slash's wall of Marshall cabinets.


----------



## defbear

hansotek said:


> Maybe there is a problem with your amp, because I've had no such issue with Fostex phones in the LC. You should email Alex and see if it needs to go in for repair, rather than making the same hyperbolic post in like 16 different threads. I feel like your blasting this post at us through Slash's wall of Marshall cabinets.


Too many Rock God comparisons. My amp is not broken. The SE input works much better for me a lower listening volumes.


----------



## Hansotek

defbear said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe there is a problem with your amp, because I've had no such issue with Fostex phones in the LC. You should email Alex and see if it needs to go in for repair, rather than making the same hyperbolic post in like 16 different threads. I feel like your blasting this post at us through Slash's wall of Marshall cabinets.
> ...



I don't know dude, you're making it sound pretty broken. Maybe you should take advantage of that lifetime warranty or something.


----------



## defbear

hansotek said:


> I don't know dude, you're making it sound pretty broken. Maybe you should take advantage of that lifetime warranty or something.


I will contact them if need be. I have had it up pretty loud with th900's. Thank you for the warm advice.


----------



## nudd

Really guys i think there are 2 issues being conflated here.

1. Hiss

The hiss is not unusual and not a super big deal because it is reasonably low leveland does not really affect listening at real world listening levels. 

If you have a bothersome hum or buzz or channel imbalance, this is not the low level hiss that people hear and are generally i think more or less okay with. 

It looks like Cavalli to their credit have gone through the design and managed to reduce the hiss in v2 and I think this is probably okay on the level of incremental improvements and not a design flaw as such.

2. Hum on Balanced input -> SE output

This is imho an actual design flaw which should have been picked up and really should be fixed for free. If it wasn't for the existence of a simple workaround in my case (connecting the SE input makes the hum go away), I would have sent it back to Cavalli very unhappy.

The hum is not regular, relatively loud buzz and actually affects the sound quality so I would class this in the slightly broken and should be fixed on demand category for existing users.


----------



## purk

defbear said:


> I will contact them if need be. I have had it up pretty loud with th900's. Thank you for the warm advice.


 
 I think you should mail yours in for a check up.  I have a problem with the hum on mind on SE and channel imbalanced issue and Alex did take care of it within a week time.


----------



## networkn

stillhart said:


> Keep an eye on the classifieds.  I don't doubt that people will want to be upgrading and there are two weeks left on the big amps.  You might also put a WTB ad up to see if that entices anyone to sell who might be on the fence.


 
  
 I have been on the classifieds for a month or so, put an Advert in and only got 2 responses, neither were suitable for a variety of reasons.  
 Given the limited window I have to find one (About 3 weeks) I think it's not likely to work out


----------



## defbear

purk said:


> I think you should mail yours in for a check up.  I have a problem with the hum on mind on SE and channel imbalanced issue and Alex did take care of it within a week time.


Thank you. I know Cavalli stands behind their amps. I think my amp is within spec. The new amps are not out yet. I'm going to enjoy the amp for the next 14 weeks. Read the comments after that. If Cavalli Audio feels the need to address the power supply for the original amps I'll take advantage of the offer. If they have one. And no it should not be free if your amp is acting normal and you just want the new power supply.


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> Thank you. I know Cavalli stands behind their amps. I think my amp is within spec. The new amps are not out yet. I'm going to enjoy the amp for the next 14 weeks. Read the comments after that. If Cavalli Audio feels the need to address the power supply for the original amps I'll take advantage of the offer. If they have one. And no it should not be free if your amp is acting normal and you just want the new power supply.



Why exactly do you think your amp is within spec? Multiple people have said that theirs don't do what yours is doing. If you're going to talk **** about it, you should at least check and see if it's not broken first. Otherwise, you just make yourself look bad.


----------



## Hansotek

nudd said:


> Really guys i think there are 2 issues being conflated here.
> 
> 1. Hiss
> 
> ...




On point 2, that shouldn't be happening. It sounds to me like you have a grounding issue here, which likely means one of two things:

1. You're running positive and negative phases from the DAC with no ground. Perhaps using a TRRS to dual 3-pin connection, a "cheater cable" or similar? In this case the hum is ground noise, and the SE connector is providing a shared ground between the amp and DAC. This isn't a design flaw in the LC, it's just a reality of electrical engineering. You'd have the same issue on other balanced amps as well.

2. If that's not the case, and you're hooking up two legitimate 3-pin connectors to two legitimate 3-pin connectors then you have either A.) a problem with your amp, B.) a problem with your DAC, or C.) a problem with the wiring in your house. In that case, I'd contact Warren or Alex about getting your amp checked out, as that should not be occurring with normal operation. Really.


----------



## cskippy

hansotek said:


> On point 2, that shouldn't be happening. It sounds to me like you have a grounding issue here, which likely means one of two things:
> 
> 1. You're running positive and negative phases from the DAC with no ground. Perhaps using a TRRS to dual 3-pin connection, a "cheater cable" or similar? In this case the hum is ground noise, and the SE connector is providing a shared ground between the amp and DAC. This isn't a design flaw in the LC, it's just a reality of electrical engineering. You'd have the same issue on other balanced amps as well.
> 
> 2. If that's not the case, and you're hooking up two legitimate 3-pin connectors to two legitimate 3-pin connectors then you have either A.) a problem with your amp, B.) a problem with your DAC, or C.) a problem with the wiring in your house. In that case, I'd contact Warren or Alex about getting your amp checked out, as that should not be occurring with normal operation. Really.


 
 I'm using the Carbon with a Schiit Gumby 3pin XLR interconnects and I have the same issue.  Connecting RCA does fix the problem.  I think it's a grounding issue on the Carbon, IMO.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, so... Warranty repairs are free shipping, only about a week turnaround.


----------



## Rahul Ajay

A bit off the topic but any help would be appreciated

OPA1612 or OPA1642 which one is a better chip?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

_.....runs home to listen to my LC in single ended for the first time, because everyone is scaring me._


----------



## ejong7

buttuglyjeff said:


> _.....runs home to listen to my LC in single ended for the first time, because everyone is scaring me._


 

 The LC can play SE?????????  0.0! 
  
 (jokes)


----------



## sheldaze

nudd said:


> 2. Hum on Balanced input -> SE output
> 
> This is imho an actual design flaw which should have been picked up and really should be fixed for free. If it wasn't for the existence of a simple workaround in my case (connecting the SE input makes the hum go away), I would have sent it back to Cavalli very unhappy.
> 
> The hum is not regular, relatively loud buzz and actually affects the sound quality so I would class this in the slightly broken and should be fixed on demand category for existing users.


 


cskippy said:


> I'm using the Carbon with a Schiit Gumby 3pin XLR interconnects and I have the same issue.  Connecting RCA does fix the problem.  I think it's a grounding issue on the Carbon, IMO.


 
 Before I sold Carbon (actually right before I ship anything I sell) I tested it to ensure it was 100% functional.
  
 However this was also the first time I switched from Gungnir with XLR cables to Mojo with RCA cables. The person I sold it to was planning to use a Mojo, so the test seemed to parallel how they would be setup. This was also the only time I did not hear the hum from the 1/4" phono output.


----------



## fiascogarcia

buttuglyjeff said:


> _.....runs home to listen to my LC in single ended for the first time, because everyone is scaring me._


 
 And........?


----------



## BucketInABucket

Patiently waiting for a response from cavalli to that contact form I sent in a few days ago


----------



## yage

nudd said:


> 2. Hum on Balanced input -> SE output
> 
> This is imho an actual design flaw which should have been picked up and really should be fixed for free. If it wasn't for the existence of a simple workaround in my case (connecting the SE input makes the hum go away), I would have sent it back to Cavalli very unhappy.
> 
> The hum is not regular, relatively loud buzz and actually affects the sound quality so I would class this in the slightly broken and should be fixed on demand category for existing users.


 
  
 I had this on my Carbon and confirmed it with two different sources (Ayre C-5xeMP / Emotiva Stealth DC-1). Send it in to Cavalli and they will fix it under warranty.
  
 I've read on earlier posts that pin 1 of the XLR input shows no continuity with ground of SE out, therefore a ground loop is present in the amp when this particular configuration is employed, in my estimation.


----------



## GabbaHey

networkn said:


> I have been on the classifieds for a month or so, put an Advert in and only got 2 responses, neither were suitable for a variety of reasons.
> Given the limited window I have to find one (About 3 weeks) I think it's not likely to work out




Check your PM


----------



## networkn

gabbahey said:


> Check your PM


 
  
 Thanks, I've responded.


----------



## maheeinfy

Trying to decide between LC and Grace m9xx
All my headphones r SE, so it makes sense to go with m9xx, but i'm to accomodate for future updates to my setup 
Thoughts?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

maheeinfy said:


> Trying to decide between LC and Grace m9xx
> All my headphones r SE, so it makes sense to go with m9xx, but i'm to accomodate for future updates to my setup
> Thoughts?


 
  
 What headphones do you own?
  
 Remember the Grace M9xx is a DAC/Amp combo, and the LC is just an amp...


----------



## swspiers

maheeinfy said:


> Trying to decide between LC and Grace m9xx
> All my headphones r SE, so it makes sense to go with m9xx, but i'm to accomodate for future updates to my setup
> Thoughts?




I'm switching over to balanced for the most part, but it's to accommodate my my LC, not due to inherent superiority over single-ended. There are plenty of great SE amps out there that I know match or beat the LC.

Just not in the price range, as far as I can tell.

Otherwise, I don't think balanced is necessary, unless you have your sites set on the Abyss, Ether C, or other planars that need lots of juice.

IMO, of course


----------



## maheeinfy

buttuglyjeff said:


> What headphones do you own?
> 
> Remember the Grace M9xx is a DAC/Amp combo, and the LC is just an amp...


 
 I am mainly looking for a amp that drivers planars (HE400i, Alpha dog) well. Since lot of folks swear by balanced, i thought i'll give it a try. But i realize going balanced means, i need to purchase balanced cables for all the headphones i want to try.
  
 Going with LC will be expensive compared to m9xx, and it also doesn't have a DAC(not really worried about the dac, as i have DC1). But i am willing to go that route if its worth it.
  
 My current amps are Magni and O2 which do a great job, but looking to enter mid-hifi arena of amps.


----------



## maheeinfy

swspiers said:


> I'm switching over to balanced for the most part, but it's to accommodate my my LC, not due to inherent superiority over single-ended. There are plenty of great SE amps out there that I know match or beat the LC.
> 
> Just not in the price range, as far as I can tell.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you. I get your point. 
 Going balanced will allow me try that sound, and also its not a big difference in price b/w the two amps i am considering. 
  
 People talk about 'refinement' in amps. I guess that's what i am after. Amp that drives planars(HE400i, Alpha dog) to their full potential


----------



## Stillhart

maheeinfy said:


> I am mainly looking for a amp that drivers planars (HE400i, Alpha dog) well. Since lot of folks swear by balanced, i thought i'll give it a try. But i realize going balanced means, i need to purchase balanced cables for all the headphones i want to try.
> 
> Going with LC will be expensive compared to m9xx, and it also doesn't have a DAC(not really worried about the dac, as i have DC1). But i am willing to go that route if its worth it.
> 
> My current amps are Magni and O2 which do a great job, but looking to enter mid-hifi arena of amps.


 
  
 I've heard good things about the m9xx but I've never heard it.  All other things equal, you might take a peek at the power output of the two amps.  Planars like power and the Alpha Dog is a T50 driver which likes a LOT of power.  
  
 A quick peak at the specs shows that the m9xx tops out at about 1W.ch.  The Carbon is specced for 1.5W/ch and Alex has says that's conservative and it swings up to 2.5ish.  Given that, the Carbon will probably give you more control of the drivers for a better sound.
  
 Of course it's more expensive and you have  cables to buy too... that adds up...


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> I've heard good things about the m9xx but I've never heard it.  All other things equal, you might take a peek at the power output of the two amps.  Planars like power and the Alpha Dog is a T50 driver which likes a LOT of power.
> 
> A quick peak at the specs shows that the m9xx tops out at about 1W.ch.  The Carbon is specced for 1.5W/ch and Alex has says that's conservative and it swings up to 2.5ish.  Given that, the Carbon will probably give you more control of the drivers for a better sound.
> 
> Of course it's more expensive and you have  cables to buy too... that adds up...




1.5W continuous in to 50 Ohms. 

This post will clear it up:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/1485#post_11607837




runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...


----------



## chowmein83

maheeinfy said:


> People talk about 'refinement' in amps. I guess that's what i am after. Amp that drives planars(HE400i, Alpha dog) to their full potential


 
  
 I can at least tell you that the Carbon does well with the 400i and modded T50RPs. My 400i is definitely driven very well by the Carbon with more than enough power. While I don't have an Alpha Dog, I do have a self-modded T50RP that is pretty inefficient. Though I am only using single-ended output with that headphone, it already sounds pretty good - I imagine it will only get better if I ever get around to making it balanced.


----------



## swspiers

maheeinfy said:


> swspiers said:
> 
> 
> > I'm switching over to balanced for the most part, but it's to accommodate my my LC, not due to inherent superiority over single-ended. There are plenty of great SE amps out there that I know match or beat the LC.
> ...




Well, considering I have the 400i's, and the Alpha Primes, I guess I have to suggest that the Liquid Carbon is an awesome bet. The extra juice in balanced mode is impressive, especially with the Primes. So yeah, in my experience the LC drives them to full potential.


----------



## maheeinfy

Another qsn.
Since balanced headphone out puts out more power than SE, is it better to run a balanced to SE adapter for SE headphones, instead of using SE connection on the amp


----------



## fiascogarcia

maheeinfy said:


> Another qsn.
> Since balanced headphone out puts out more power than SE, is it better to run a balanced to SE adapter for SE headphones, instead of using SE connection on the amp


 
 I'm not an expert on this, but an adapter as you describe will not work.  Adapters only work with balanced headphone cable plug going into SE jacks.


----------



## bearFNF

maheeinfy said:


> Another qsn.
> Since balanced headphone out puts out more power than SE, is it better to run a balanced to SE adapter for SE headphones, instead of using SE connection on the amp



Never never never connect headphones wired for SE to balanced output. Amp damage is almost guaranteed to happen. 

You can connect headphones wired for balanced to SE with an appropriate adapter, though.


----------



## swspiers

maheeinfy said:


> Another qsn.
> Since balanced headphone out puts out more power than SE, is it better to run a balanced to SE adapter for SE headphones, instead of using SE connection on the amp




Doing this makes the magic smoke, maaaan....


----------



## maheeinfy

fiascogarcia said:


> I'm not an expert on this, but an adapter as you describe will not work.  Adapters only work with balanced headphone cable plug going into SE jacks.


 


bearfnf said:


> Never never never connect headphones wired for SE to balanced output. Amp damage is almost guaranteed to happen.
> 
> You can connect headphones wired for balanced to SE with an appropriate adapter, though.


 


swspiers said:


> Doing this makes the magic smoke, maaaan....


 
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

bearfnf said:


> Never never never connect headphones wired for SE to balanced output. Amp damage is almost guaranteed to happen.
> 
> You can connect headphones wired for balanced to SE with an appropriate adapter, though.


 
  
 One could say the Liquid Carbon would go up in Liquid Smoke?


----------



## BucketInABucket

buttuglyjeff said:


> One could say the Liquid Carbon would go up in Liquid Smoke?


 
 Some men just want to watch the Carbon burn...


----------



## bearFNF

buttuglyjeff said:


> One could say the Liquid Carbon would go up in Liquid Smoke?


You mean Liquid Magic Smoke? Right?


----------



## warrenpchi

While I support DIY, I'm not sure that _modding_ a Liquid Carbon into Liquid Charcoal would be a wise move.


----------



## kggibbs

On the home page of cavalli audio, it says 'Last chance to order xxxx days left until *Non-Liquid-Carbon* amps are retired'
  
 Can someone explain this newbie what the underlined text mean. My IQ levels are super low today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Also, is this a run of carbons, a limited number ?


----------



## AxelCloris

kggibbs said:


> On the home page of cavalli audio, it says 'Last chance to order xxxx days left until *Non-Liquid-Carbon* amps are retired'
> 
> Can someone explain this newbie what the underlined text mean. My IQ levels are super low today
> 
> ...


 

 The countdown is for all amps Cavalli currently makes apart from the Liquid Carbon. As I understand it there is no max order for the Carbons in the second run but the purchase window closes on May 5th.


----------



## Stillhart

kggibbs said:


> On the home page of cavalli audio, it says 'Last chance to order xxxx days left until *Non-Liquid-Carbon* amps are retired'
> 
> Can someone explain this newbie what the underlined text mean. My IQ levels are super low today
> 
> ...


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> The countdown is for all amps Cavalli currently makes apart from the Liquid Carbon. As I understand it there is no max order for the Carbons in the second run but the purchase window closes on May 5th.


 
  
 Here's the quote from Warren the other day:
  


> Hey, we're planning a run of 500, like the first run.
> 
> However, the final number depends on how many are actually ordered.  This is going to be the last time that we offer the Liquid Carbon, and we realize that there may be more than 500 people who want to take advantage of this final run.  So if it turns out that 520 people order or something like that, we're not going to coldly deny those last twenty guys by citing a hard limit of 500.


 
  
 Source:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run/300#post_12486734


----------



## buke9

warrenpchi said:


> While I support DIY, I'm not sure that _modding_ a Liquid Carbon into Liquid Charcoal would be a wise move.


 That one just made my day thanks for the laugh for the day Warren I needed it ; )


----------



## 435090

Awesome that Alex is doing the 2nd run. Was a steal at $600, and is still a really good deal at $800.


----------



## doctorjazz

buke9 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > While I support DIY, I'm not sure that _modding_ a Liquid Carbon into Liquid Charcoal would be a wise move.
> ...




I assume when you mod the Carbon, you're trying for Liquid Diamond...oh, never mind. :rolleyes:


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> buke9 said:
> 
> 
> > warrenpchi said:
> ...


 
  
@buke9, having met me, I'm sure you could imagine me saying that totally deadpan.
  
@doctorjazz, I was about to say something awesomely funny, but a bit NSFW, PM me if you still want to know.


----------



## buke9

warrenpchi said:


> @buke9, having met me, I'm sure you could imagine me saying that totally deadpan.
> 
> @doctorjazz, I was about to say something awesomely funny, but a bit NSFW, PM me if you still want to know.


 
 Yes I can Warren it made my day.


----------



## Peridot

There's been some discussion previously about the need for a ground reference connection when feeding the LC from a balanced DAP.
  
 I made up a 2.5mm TRRS to XLR cable for use with my Onkyo DP-X1.
  
 I brought the ground pins of the XLRs out to a flying lead and used it with this disconnected and then connected to the ground of the player's 3.5mm SE output and the ground of its charging connector.
  
 It worked fine in all configurations i.e., the ground reference connection made no difference whether attached or left floating.
  
 So in this case at least it was not necessary.


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> There's been some discussion previously about the need for a ground reference connection when feeding the LC from a balanced DAP.
> 
> I made up a 2.5mm TRRS to XLR cable for use with my Onkyo DP-X1.
> 
> ...



Try it from the SE output.


----------



## Peridot

> Try it from the SE output.


 
  
 Was fine on both SE and balanced without the ground connection.


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> Was fine on both SE and balanced without the ground connection.



Sorry I meant to try it se with and without ground connection. Se is the only place it was showing the ground hum behavior.


----------



## Peridot

stillhart said:


> Sorry I meant to try it se with and without ground connection. Se is the only place it was showing the ground hum behavior.


 
  
 Yes, that's what I did and it was good in all configurations.
  
 Nothing related to the ground hum, this is the matter of providing a ground reference for the balanced input circuit, which Dr Cavalli suggested was required.
  
 In this case it didn't prove to be necessary. I don't know enough about balanced configurations to comment further on the reason for this. Perhaps something to do with the difference between the signal from another balanced amplifier as a source, as opposed to the phase-inverted output of a 'proper' source component - others may have a better idea.


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> Yes, that's what I did and it was good in all configurations.
> 
> Nothing related to the ground hum, this is the matter of providing a ground reference for the balanced input circuit, which Dr Cavalli suggested was required.
> 
> In this case it didn't prove to be necessary. I don't know enough about balanced configurations to comment further on the reason for this. Perhaps something to do with the difference between the signal from another balanced amplifier as a source, as opposed to the phase-inverted output of a 'proper' source component - others may have a better idea.


 
  
 Oh okay, gotcha.  Yeah, it seems the issue only comes up with certain units.  *shrug*  Someone more electronically inclined than me will have to figure it out.


----------



## maheeinfy

So, what are the 'surprises' that will be included in this run of carbons ?


----------



## doctorjazz

A beautiful dancing girl with each one!


----------



## Stillhart

maheeinfy said:


> So, what are the 'surprises' that will be included in this run of carbons ?


 
  
 Details here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run


----------



## fiascogarcia

doctorjazz said:


> A beautiful dancing girl with each one!


 
 I'm ordering 3.


----------



## bolim

My eyes and fingers have gone sore after reading all the posts on this thread. Got me both very excited and worried. Placed an order on the final run but have to wait 14 weeks and more. Part of my brain tells me i cannot wait so if any of you guys have a spare unused LC to let go please drop me a PM. Cheers guys and thanks for sharing so much here.


----------



## fiascogarcia

bolim said:


> My eyes and fingers have gone sore after reading all the posts on this thread. Got me both very excited and worried. Placed an order on the final run but have to wait 14 weeks and more. Part of my brain tells me i cannot wait so if any of you guys have a spare unused LC to let go please drop me a PM. Cheers guys and thanks for sharing so much here.


 
 I bought a first run, knowing I wouldn't have the patience to wait.  They do pop up occasionally in the classifieds, but you have to be vigilant because they're purchased pretty quickly.


----------



## psychogene

Just wanted to say what fantastic service Mr.Cavalli provides for repairs on LC.
  
 Bought my LC secondhand from a head-fi member and all was well with SE. 1 week later XLR cables I ordered for Alpha Prime/HD650 arrived and there was big distortion in particular with the bass with XLR Alpha Prime. Contacted Mr.Cavalli informing him of my issue and he promptly replied to ship the unit and he will sort it out.
  
 I just received my repaired unit back today (turn around of 20 days from shipping Australia to Texas and back including 1 week of testing before returning the unit) and everything is working great, SE and XLR outputs. If anything I am sure you can have confidence that if any issues arise with your LC it will be dealt with promptly and without any big hassles.
  
 It was unfortunate my LC had issues but the repairs were relatively fast for something I have to ship overseas. Good luck on those purchasing the second run in of LC I'm sure you will be quite impressed by the sound quality of this little unit!


----------



## Youth

psychogene said:


> Just wanted to say what fantastic service Mr.Cavalli provides for repairs on LC.
> 
> Bought my LC secondhand from a head-fi member and all was well with SE. 1 week later XLR cables I ordered for Alpha Prime/HD650 arrived and there was big distortion in particular with the bass with XLR Alpha Prime. Contacted Mr.Cavalli informing him of my issue and he promptly replied to ship the unit and he will sort it out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did you have to pay VAT again once it was returned?


----------



## rocketron

I didn't have to pay VAT on my return from Cavalli. It was marked up as a repair.


----------



## psychogene

No VAT - or in Australia GST on imported/exported item.
  
 Item was marked as 'returned for warranty repairs' which I think exempts from paying VAT. Though in Australia if goods imported are under $1000 AUD you are also exempt from included GST.
  
 Not sure how it works elsewhere but all I paid for was shipping to Cavalli and the rest was done for me.


----------



## Voxata

After seeing how Cavalli takes care of their customers and the pairing hype for my 400i (and maybe someday 560) I went ahead and ordered the second run. Fingers crossed! (I've a Bifrost 4490 which should pair fine as well)


----------



## Xeculus

warrenpchi said:


> If the new owner requests so, and provides me with information regarding the change in title for the Carbon, I would be happy to transfer the warranty to him/her.


 
  
 Do the second run of amps also have the lifetime warranty?


----------



## Voxata

No


----------



## GokaiN

I've noticed, very infrequently, while using the SE output, that volume level on the channels can be imbalanced.  A little fidgeting with the volume pot re-balances the volume levels on the channels to be normal.  Has anyone else experienced this issue?


----------



## Xeculus

voxata said:


> No


 
  
 What's the warranty going to be for the 2nd run?
  
  


gokain said:


> I've noticed, very infrequently, while using the SE output, that volume level on the channels can be imbalanced.  A little fidgeting with the volume pot re-balances the volume levels on the channels to be normal.  Has anyone else experienced this issue?


 
  
 Really wanna press the "buy" on the LC, but gotta say, the myriad of issues its been having is a bit off-putting


----------



## Peridot

xeculus said:


> What's the warranty going to be for the 2nd run?
> 
> Really wanna press the "buy" on the LC, but gotta say, the myriad of issues its been having is a bit off-putting


 
  
 The issues have been with the first run due to difficulties with the sub-contracted manufacturer. It has the benefit of the lifetime warranty as a result.
  
 I think Cavalli have learned a lot from the experience with the first batch and I would be very surprised if there are similar issues with the second. I certainly would have no hesitation in ordering one. It's clear from the experience of anyone who has had a problem that Cavalli will stand-by their products and resolve any difficulties.


----------



## GokaiN

xeculus said:


> What's the warranty going to be for the 2nd run?
> 
> 
> 
> Really wanna press the "buy" on the LC, but gotta say, the myriad of issues its been having is a bit off-putting


 
 I've had the LC for about 2 weeks and so far, I've only encountered this twice while using my Magnum v6 through the SE.  I don't think it's significant (yet), but if it happens more frequently or on a more permanent basis, I will contact Cavalli to have them resolve the issue, so it's not really a cause for worry in my opinion.  
  
 Speaking of which, since I bought my LC from an original owner (who kept it in meticulous condition, btw), I've contacted Warren to transfer the warranty to myself.  Unfortunately, this was about 10 days ago and I haven't received a reply.


----------



## bearFNF

gokain said:


> I've had the LC for about 2 weeks and so far, I've only encountered this twice while using my Magnum v6 through the SE.  I don't think it's significant (yet), but if it happens more frequently or on a more permanent basis, I will contact Cavalli to have them resolve the issue, so it's not really a cause for worry in my opinion.
> 
> Speaking of which, since I bought my LC from an original owner (who kept it in meticulous condition, btw), I've contacted Warren to transfer the warranty to myself.  Unfortunately, this was about 10 days ago and I haven't received a reply.



Warren's been doing AXPONA and now he's getting ready for the Tokyo show, so he might be a little delayed responding to emails. I'd give him some time. I'm sure I'll get to it for you.


----------



## GokaiN

bearfnf said:


> Warren's been doing AXPONA and now he's getting ready for the Tokyo show, so he might be a little delayed responding to emails. I'd give him some time. I'm sure I'll get to it for you.


 
 Ah, thanks for the info.  I'm in no rush (unless of course, something goes terribly wrong).  
  
 Also, until now, I've been using my m9xx as the DAC feeding my LC, and it's been pretty damn good.  However, I'm about to receive a non-MB Gungnir tomorrow and can barely contain myself!  Does anyone have any experience with this particular combo?


----------



## Stillhart

xeculus said:


> What's the warranty going to be for the 2nd run?
> 
> 
> 
> Really wanna press the "buy" on the LC, but gotta say, the myriad of issues its been having is a bit off-putting



Warranty will be one year. IIRC, Warren has said they'll keep an eye on this run to see how it goes and they may extend it.


----------



## cskippy

gokain said:


> I've noticed, very infrequently, while using the SE output, that volume level on the channels can be imbalanced.  A little fidgeting with the volume pot re-balances the volume levels on the channels to be normal.  Has anyone else experienced this issue?


 
 That's normal.  Most volume pots have channel imbalance near 0.  Turn it up a bit more and everything should be centered.  Use low gain for more volume range and to stay out of the channel imbalance zone.


----------



## defbear

This may be redundant, but I have had reliable email reply by using info@cavalliaudio.com


----------



## GokaiN

cskippy said:


> That's normal.  Most volume pots have channel imbalance near 0.  Turn it up a bit more and everything should be centered.  Use low gain for more volume range and to stay out of the channel imbalance zone.


 

 I had no idea about this.  I never ran into this issue with the m9xx, which I never ran near 0.  The funny part, though, is that I was using low gain at the times this happened.  But I'm glad it's a normal thing; at least I know how to avoid this now.


----------



## Hansotek

gokain said:


> I had no idea about this.  I never ran into this issue with the m9xx, which I never ran near 0.  The funny part, though, is that I was using low gain at the times this happened.  But I'm glad it's a normal thing; at least I know how to avoid this now.



The M9XX has a stepped digital volume attenuator. There should never be a channel imbalance issue with a stepped attenuator, much less one that is digitally controlled.


----------



## commonhorse

Currently have a m9xx wit the intention of buying an HD 800 S. Was thinking of upgrading to the hdvd 800 black once it comes out but if I could save money, I was thinking of settling with the Liquid Carbon and M9xx for endgame. Would pairing with the m9xx be an upgrade or more of a side grade? I'm also okay with buying another dac but that depends how well this set up fares.


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## sheldaze

commonhorse said:


> Currently have a m9xx wit the intention of buying an HD 800 S. Was thinking of upgrading to the hdvd 800 black once it comes out but if I could save money, I was thinking of settling with the Liquid Carbon and M9xx for endgame. Would pairing with the m9xx be an upgrade or more of a side grade? I'm also okay with buying another dac but that depends how well this set up fares.


 
 I've used the m9XX while feeding it into the Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon. While I felt the m9XX on its own was quite good with the HD800, I most definitely felt the Liquid Carbon was an upgrade.
  
 Not sure about the Sennheiser amplifier. That is to say, I have heard the current 800 amplifier (not black). But I did not hear it at the same time as the Liquid Carbon. The Sennheiser amplifier was certainly good - the local member was questioning its quality. And I definitely recommended he keep it, as a nice solid state option. It sounds best out of the balanced output, similar to the Carbon. But I could not say (especially not hearing both at the same time, or with the same music) how the two would compare. And I'm still suspect of the high output impedance of the Sennheiser amplifier.
  
 Based on what I know, from my own listening experience, m9XX used as a DAC and feeding the Liquid Carbon is an upgrade versus the m9XX alone. The DAC in the m9XX is definitely worthy of being used to feed the Liquid Carbon.


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## warrenpchi

Liquid Carbon Upgrade Package Interest Check Hi guys!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 A while back, when we announced the second and final run of Liquid Carbons, some of you mentioned that you would be interested in paying the price difference between the first and second runs in order to have your Liquid Carbon 1.0 units upgraded to our newer power stage... not to mention getting in on the bonuses (AudioQuest NRG-X3 cable, Amarra Hi-Fi, and Cavalli Audio tee).
  
 If we offered a special upgrade package that includes:

Liquid Carbon power stage upgrade service
AudioQuest NRG-X3 cable;
Amarra Hi-Fi software; and
Limited-edition Cavalli Audio tee
  
 ...and it was priced at $200, would any of y'all be up for that?
  
 Please let me know by posting here as we'd like to see if there is any interest for that, and whether there's enough interest in making it happen production-wise.
  
 Thanks!
  
 P.S. - Apologies to the mods for cross-posting, but the sheer number of Liquid Carbon threads made it difficult to avoid that.


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## fiascogarcia

I would have in a flash when you first started taking orders, but I have since reterminated all my cables to balanced. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  No regrets there!  But it does sound like a reasonable offer.


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## vince741

If you had a reseller/center in the EU, I would have jumped on it but the postage fees (both way) and the risk to have to deal with customs again is just too much.


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## Peridot

vince741 said:


> If you had a reseller/center in the EU, I would have jumped on it but the postage fees (both way) and the risk to have to deal with customs again is just too much.


 
  
 That would be my thinking too.
  
 I'd have no interest in the cable or the shirt, and I already have the software.
  
 Personally I'd prefer a lower cost offer of just the power supply upgrade, treated as a "repair". This would save on postage charges and avoid customs fees.


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## scanspeakman1

Me too; just the power supply upgrade. And just as a repair. Customs is a pain in the a## here on one of the Caribean islands (or just plain dumb). Otherwise I would have approx 150-250$ shipping and duties for a, say a 50-100$ repair. So for me it depends on total expected costs.
  
 And.....sometimes I just think "if it aint broken, dont fix it" and my LC works perfect!
  
 Scanspeakman


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## ButtUglyJeff

I might be interested, even though my LC has yet to see a single ended headphone.  But I might want to audition one in the future.  When would the time frame be?  I have a new DAC coming, and my heart would be broken if it got here, with my amp gone....


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## DeLuX

vince741 said:


> If you had a reseller/center in the EU, I would have jumped on it but the postage fees (both way) and the risk to have to deal with customs again is just too much.




+1 on that, allso I would really only be interested in the power supply upgrade


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## Youth

I'm only interested in the power supply.


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## doctorjazz

I'm only interested in the T shirt!!!!


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## sahmen

Ditto for interest in the power supply upgrade.  Does one have the option to be selective about upgrade choices?  That would be just swell, from my viewpoint as a customer.


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## hifi808

Only interested in the power supply upgrade and T-shirt...can never have too many t-shirts.


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## mscott58

hifi808 said:


> Only interested in the power supply upgrade and T-shirt...can never have too many t-shirts.


 
 And the t-shirts are awesome!


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## AxelCloris

I will gladly accept any and all unwanted Cavalli shirts. I'm gonna make a quilt!


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## qafro

@AxelCloris
 How does Chord Mojo > Cavalli Liquid Carbon sound like .
 Because am thinking of getting CA spark amp for my Mojo?


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## sujitsky

T-shirt and power supply change only


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## mscott58

Very good pairing, as is the Mojo and Liquid Spark. Cheers


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## chowmein83

Also wanted to chime in and say that I'm really only interested in the power supply upgrade - I actually do use the SE out on the LC a fair amount, and I'm not so interested in the other stuff.


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## harpo1

Power supply on would be my choice.


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## musiclvr

warrenpchi said:


> Liquid Carbon Upgrade Package Interest Check Hi guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So I sold my LC 1.0 to acquire the LC 2.0 simply because I needed a lower noise floor out of the SE output. I was sad to hear the Lifetime Warranty was not being carried over to the LC 2.0. So my question is *How much would the purchase of a Lifetime Warranty be for the LC 2.0?*


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## mandrake50

I would go for the package because I have a use for all of the individual pieces, if that is the only option. I would prefer to just be able to do the power supply upgrade on its own, but sure wouldn't mind a nominal additional charge for a T Shirt.


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## mscott58

Upgrade and t-shirt, upgrade and t-shirt!!!


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## AxelCloris

qafro said:


> How does Chord Mojo > Cavalli Liquid Carbon sound like .
> Because am thinking of getting CA spark amp for my Mojo?


 
  
 It's a great pairing. The Mojo is awesome but several headphones don't sound as good straight from it compared to when run through the Liquid Carbon. I haven't done much with the Mojo/Spark but my gut is telling me that the pairing should be awesome as well because the pre-production Spark is one hell of a portable amp.


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## roguepp88

I would be highly interested too!


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## Shawnb

I'd be interested as well.


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## Audio Addict

At this point, I am not sure. Did I miss if it changed the lifetime and transferable warranty?


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## felix3650

Hey everyone,
  
 How would you compare the LC to a Ray Samuels SR-71B? I currently own the later running a pair of ZMF Omni single ended (for now, going balanced soon).
 Would going to a LC improve the sound in any way? Anyone has tried both (balanced vs balanced)? My source would be the Mojo (which pairs great with the LC from what I read).


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## nudd

I would be interested in the upgrade if it can fix the balanced input -> single ended hum issue without having to plug in extra pair of RCA cables, and just for the upgraded power supply (not power cord or T-shirt or Amarra as I am not a Mac user).


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## purk

felix3650 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


The LC is a desktop amp in a transportable chassis. I am seriously doubt that the SR-71B will come close to it. Maybe at driving CIEMs but not on a full-size headphones.


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## felix3650

purk said:


> felix3650 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone,
> ...




I got the SR-71B used for 400$
What I meant was: would double the price offer double the performance?
I'll be running both balanced. And the SR-71B is pretty capable as a portable. Even running the power hungry HE6 with very good authority and control. I'm tempted to get the LC and compare them both and decide which one to keep


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## mscott58

felix3650 said:


> I got the SR-71B used for 400$
> What I meant was: would double the price offer double the performance?
> I'll be running both balanced. And the SR-71B is pretty capable as a portable. Even running the power hungry HE6 with very good authority and control. I'm tempted to get the LC and compare them both and decide which one to keep


 
 Always good to try things out like this head-to-head with your own gear to see what works for you. And given that the LC seems to be keeping its value well it's a pretty low-risk option IMO. 
  
 Cheers


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## fiascogarcia

felix3650 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> How would you compare the LC to a Ray Samuels SR-71B? I currently own the later running a pair of ZMF Omni single ended (for now, going balanced soon).
> Would going to a LC improve the sound in any way? Anyone has tried both (balanced vs balanced)? My source would be the Mojo (which pairs great with the LC from what I read).


 
 I had the SR-71A, and it was one of my favorite portable amps.  Had the slightly dark RSA house sound, but very powerful and smooth sound.  LC offers better clarity in the upper registers and sound stage is wider and deeper.  Bass is deep and well controlled on both amps.  LC has better instrument separation.  This is my impression with K10s, LCD-2, and HD600s.  Using the Hugo as the DAC.


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## Audio Addict

mscott58 said:


> Always good to try things out like this head-to-head with your own gear to see what works for you. And given that the LC seems to be keeping its value well it's a pretty low-risk option IMO.
> 
> Cheers




I have both and ran balanced into both and balanced out. My take is the difference is the house sound between the RSA and CA.


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## Peridot

felix3650 said:


> What I meant was: would double the price offer double the performance?


 
  
 Are you kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That is not even a remote possibility in this hobby. I'd generally expect around 10% improvement from a doubling in price and consider myself well rewarded if I got 20%.
  


mscott58 said:


> Always good to try things out like this head-to-head with your own gear to see what works for you. And given that the LC seems to be keeping its value well it's a pretty low-risk option IMO.


 
  
 The best advice IMO.


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## felix3650

Thanks guys!
  
 In the end that's what I'm gonna do (was planning to do since the beggining), get the LC and then compare which I like the most 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 At least if I decide to keep one of them I can sell the other and be done.
 And the best part is that I don't even need to reterminate my RSA cable as the LC has both balanced outputs (RSA & XLR).
 Both are great amps though


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## scanspeakman1

Since I am using the LC + EGD combo to drive my Ethers I can only concur what is in the article. Awesome balanced DAC for the price. In my opinion even more awesome when used with the LC and the Ethers. Last but not least; looks great together since the EGD and the LC are roughly the same same size. Really nice transportable combo.
  
http://www.headfonia.com/review-stoner-acoustics-egd-ega-value/
  
 Scanspeakman


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## Ultrainferno

scanspeakman1 said:


> Since I am using the LC + EGD combo to drive my Ethers I can only concur what is in the article. Awesome balanced DAC for the price. In my opinion even more awesome when used with the LC and the Ethers. Last but not least; looks great together since the EGD and the LC are roughly the same same size. Really nice transportable combo.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/review-stoner-acoustics-egd-ega-value/
> 
> Scanspeakman


 
  
 The DAC is pretty nice indeed


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## JoeDoe

If any Carbon owners are interested in trading heirs plus cash for a Liquid Crimson, shoot me a PM...


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## felix3650

The balanced connections are same right? I just finished a RSA/ALO balanced cable. Reterminating it to XLR would be pointless if both outputs are the same..


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## ButtUglyJeff

felix3650 said:


> The balanced connections are same right? I just finished a RSA/ALO balanced cable. Reterminating it to XLR would be pointless if both outputs are the same..


 
  
 Correct, don't waste your time, unless there's another amp besides the Liquid Carbon you plan on using...


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## felix3650

buttuglyjeff said:


> Correct, don't waste your time, unless there's another amp besides the Liquid Carbon you plan on using...


 

 I'm currently using a RSA SR-71B so plan on using both and having only one balanced cable. Not worth fiddling with converters too (I could build a Balanced to SE one easily if I get in the mood though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


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## Audio Addict

felix3650 said:


> I'm currently using a RSA SR-71B so plan on using both and having only one balanced cable. Not worth fiddling with converters too (I could build a Balanced to SE one easily if I get in the mood though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 If you build the RSA balanced, I would recommend trying to build it without the normal angled bracket.  On the LC, the angled / cable goes right across the volume and it is a tight fit.  For the SR-71B, the volume is to the left but on the LC it is on the right.


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## felix3650

audio addict said:


> If you build the RSA balanced, I would recommend trying to build it without the normal angled bracket.  On the LC, the angled / cable goes right across the volume and it is a tight fit.  For the SR-71B, the volume is to the left but on the LC it is on the right.




Thanks S,

Off to build a modular cable then 
I'm thinking of something like this:

http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_91&product_id=100

Kobiconn female to XLR 4-pin male.


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## fiascogarcia

felix3650 said:


> Thanks S,
> 
> Off to build a modular cable then
> 
> ...


 
 Depending on the size of your cable, it may not make that much of a difference, though I use the kobiconn for iems exclusively.


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## felix3650

This is my actual cable. It's a bit stiffer than yours near the kobiconn cause I used 2 different size heatshrinks. Once I get the Carbon I'll figure something out.
What do you guys use as a carrying pouch/sack when putting the amp in your backpack/bag?


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## purk

Nice looking cable but the 1/8" mini TRRS is a much better jack that Kobiconn IMO.  I was a bit disappointed that the Carbon didn't adopt that standard.


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## felix3650

purk said:


> Nice looking cable but the 1/8" mini TRRS is a much better jack that Kobiconn IMO.  I was a bit disappointed that the Carbon didn't adopt that standard.




Thanks 
Yeah, that would have been better. The kobiconn just takes up a nice chunk of the amp's front. We can't have it all can we?


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## jamato8

purk said:


> Nice looking cable but the 1/8" mini TRRS is a much better jack that Kobiconn IMO.  I was a bit disappointed that the Carbon didn't adopt that standard.


 

 I prefer the Kobicon. I have used it for years now with zero problems and the connection is still tight on my RSA amps. Also there is better separation of the signals with the Kobicon over the TRRS, less crosstalk.


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## nudd

So ... is Cavalli going to offer a power supply upgrade for the first run LCs or not?


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## aarontyson

never mind.


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## fiascogarcia

nudd said:


> So ... is Cavalli going to offer a power supply upgrade for the first run LCs or not?


 
 I thought they were already doing this?  Maybe best to contact Cavalli or WarrenPChi directly.


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## scanspeakman1

fiascogarcia said:


> I thought they were already doing this?  Maybe best to contact Cavalli or WarrenPChi directly.


 

 Sure? Haven't seen any formal offer. Thought there was still discussion if just the PSU upgrade would be available or only the package including a t-shirt, power cord etc.
  
 Scanspeakman


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## Phoebus7

was there any comparison done between Cavali LC and Geek Pulse XFI ? I want to use XFI with Ether C and Elear or HEX. Thanks


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## ASRSPR

Has anyone managed to do a warranty transfer recently (per http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty#post_12303459)? I've sent Warren a few messages asking him to do this for me through both email and Head-Fi PM over the last 5 months and have heard nothing back. I've been quite pleased with the amp, but I bought it with the expectation that I'd be covered if it ever needed servicing or repair.


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## mscott58

phoebus7 said:


> was there any comparison done between Cavali LC and Geek Pulse XFI ? I want to use XFI with Ether C and Elear or HEX. Thanks


 
 I use the Pulse Infinity with the Liquid Carbon to drive my Ether C's and find it to be a great pairing. I wouldn't "compare" the Pulse and the LC as the Pulse's main duty is as a DAC and the LC's main (and only) duty is as an amp. However, I do find that things sound significantly better when the signal coming out of the Pulse is then amped by the LC. Cheers


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## Phoebus7

mscott58 said:


> I use the Pulse Infinity with the Liquid Carbon to drive my Ether C's and find it to be a great pairing. I wouldn't "compare" the Pulse and the LC as the Pulse's main duty is as a DAC and the LC's main (and only) duty is as an amp. However, I do find that things sound significantly better when the signal coming out of the Pulse is then amped by the LC. Cheers


 
 Thanks for your feedback if I am not wrong the Pulse Amp section is pretty good at 2 watts, is there a need to get an external Amp. how much is the power output of LC?


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## ButtUglyJeff

phoebus7 said:


> Thanks for your feedback if I am not wrong the Pulse Amp section is pretty good at 2 watts, is there a need to get an external Amp. how much is the power output of LC?


 
  
 Not much more, I think Alex stated somewhere it flirted with a peak of 3 watts.  But its the flavor of the amp that most folks around here prefer....


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## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> Not much more, I think Alex stated somewhere it flirted with a peak of 3 watts.  But its the flavor of the amp that most folks around here prefer....


 
 Exactly. It's not a power thing (they both play plenty loud) it's a SQ and flavor thing. I've even run the Infinity into an ALO CDM if I wanted to get more of the tube "warmth". Cheers


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## ASRSPR

asrspr said:


> Has anyone managed to do a warranty transfer recently (per http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty#post_12303459)? I've sent Warren a few messages asking him to do this for me through both email and Head-Fi PM over the last 5 months and have heard nothing back. I've been quite pleased with the amp, but I bought it with the expectation that I'd be covered if it ever needed servicing or repair.


 
  
 I contacted Cavalli support and they were able to sort me out. If anyone is having trouble getting Warren to transfer their first run LC warranty, that is probably the best bet.


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## Funsucker

Anyone have an idea of when the new Liquid Carbons are shipping? Thanks in advance.


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## KG Jag

funsucker said:


> Anyone have an idea of when the new Liquid Carbons are shipping? Thanks in advance.


 
  
 It will be next month at the earliest.  They are currently shipping the Liquid Golds and then heading for Denver.


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## mscott58

kg jag said:


> It will be next month at the earliest.  They are currently shipping the Liquid Golds and then heading for Denver.


 
 The LAu's are going out?!? Sweet! Have missed having one of those amazing beasts in my system.


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## Bambule

I'm completely new here. Am I right that this amp was limited and is sold out now?


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## hamlyn

The $599 price was for the first run. Cavalli had a second run that ended in April. There are some retailers that may still be able to take an order for you. The last run was $799 and included a few extras (upgraded power supply, premium power cord, Amara license, t-shirt, etc).


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## ejong7

bambule said:


> I'm completely new here. Am I right that this amp was limited and is sold out now?


 

 I think the best way of getting the right answer for that is to contact the folks at Cavalli. Or maybe @warrenpchi directly.


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## frankrondaniel

For anyone interested in buying a first-run Liquid Carbon I've listed my Liquid Carbon for sale.  The Liquid Gold is hogging all of the listening time!


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## Shure or bust

Is there a difference from the first Liquid carbon to the final production run ?


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## x RELIC x

shure or bust said:


> Is there a difference from the first Liquid carbon to the final production run ?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run#post_12477119


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## scanspeakman1

Hi,

Unfortunately my LC (v1) is starting to develop some problems with the volume control; when I turn the volume all the way down I still hear some sound from the right channel. Probably faulty/crappy volume pot. I have not opened the LC yet but I have no problem (de-)soldering and replacing it myself. Anyone had this problem and replaced it themselves? Any recommendation for a replacement part?

Scanspeakman


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