# Do Headphone cable upgrades really work?



## bedlam inside

Recently on the train back from London I got talking to a guy with some pretty fancy in ear headphones. He had a pretty homeade braided cable with them, turns out all silver.

 I have decent cables (Chord Co) on my HiFi, but I did not think they made a big difference over the stuff I had originally.

 Is it worth upgrading the cable on my Audio Technica Headphones?

 It can be unplugged from the headphones. The cable has plugs on both ends.

 f I want to try something, where can get such a cable?

 Does it have to be silver (sounds expensive)?


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## streetdragon

it does work, BUT it is generally very expensive for the improvement you get. and the price to performance ratio is normally far worse than other components 
 (not sure about the cables you mentioned though)


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## bedlam inside

Hi Streetdragon,

 So, maybe it is not worth getting for my headphones?

 They where only around 200 Pound when I bought them a few years ago.

 I recently got myself a headphone amp for similar money, it was quite a revelation compared to the headphone out of my Laptop, love listening to music on headphones a lot more since.

 I still prefer speakers though, when I can. I tried a few other Headphones, but the only one I liked better costs silly money.

 So I am looking for some upgrade I can do with the headphones I have. I thought cables might be easy to do. Anything else I can do?


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## streetdragon

Quote: 





bedlam inside said:


> Hi Streetdragon,
> 
> So, maybe it is not worth getting for my headphones?
> 
> ...


 
  well depends on the rest of your system. if they are high end then i think its okay (recabling cheap headphones is often a no-no), but i think so far a dac might be a consideration as well since you are running it from your laptop soundcard


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## bedlam inside

Quote: 





streetdragon said:


> well depends on the rest of your system. if they are high end then i think its okay (recabling cheap headphones is often a no-no), but i think so far a dac might be a consideration as well since you are running it from your laptop soundcard


 
   
  Hi, my headphones and other stuff is not what I think they call "High End". 

 But I do have a DAC plus a Headphone Amplifier. The DAC has even got another box to power it, just like in my Naim CDS CD-Player. I bought them after hearing them at the recent Audio Show.

 I recently tried some headphones that cost more than all of my boxes and headphones together (Sennheiser ones) and was somewhat impressed, but not enough to consider buying them.

 So, the only thing to upgrade are my headphones (which I like the way they sound) or cables...

 What do you think I should do? Maybe nothing?


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## El_Doug

Depends on what you mean by "work."  There is absolutely no scientific basis for 99.9% of the claims cable sellers make, the science that is applicable makes changes measured in the 0.00001db range, measurements show no difference, and no one has ever passed a double-blind test to differentiate cables. 
   
  However, once people do sighted tests, cognitive biases (placebo, etc.) kick in, and you do hear a difference - just not a "real" difference.  So, once you're happy with your system (and ONLY once youve upgraded all you can on gear that makes a real difference), go ahead and get some pretty looking cables, and you may enjoy your system more even though the sound hasn't technically changed.


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## kenyee

FWIW, I didn't believe it would make a difference, but putting the $80 CH cables on my UE TF10 made a huge difference.
  Doesn't hurt that the cable and connectors are a lot better as well, but I was honestly surprised by the difference (swapped the cable a few times to be sure).  Main negative is microphonics are worse because the cable is harder


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## p a t r i c k

I believe Suggestion and auto-suggestion play an extremely large part in assessing Hi Fi.
   
  DBT discussion is banned in this part of the forums, to me this is inexplicable and bizarre.
   
  However I would ask people to view my article here:
   
Suggestion and Auto-Suggestion in the Assessment of Audio Products


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## Lenni

Quote: 





p a t r i c k said:


> I believe Suggestion and auto-suggestion play an extremely large part in assessing Hi Fi.
> 
> DBT discussion is banned in this part of the forums, to me this is inexplicable and bizarre.
> 
> ...


 
  I'll tell what is bizarre. You posting in this forum about something you never tried and know nothing about; wanting to discuss auto-suggestion and other psychology theories here.  
   
  you went to all that trouble to write that article (or whatever it is), and nobody gives a ****. it sucks


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## Lenni

Quote: 





el_doug said:


> Depends on what you mean by "work."  There is absolutely no scientific basis for 99.9% of the claims cable sellers make, the science that is applicable makes changes measured in the 0.00001db range, measurements show no difference, and no one has ever passed a double-blind test to differentiate cables.
> 
> However, once people do sighted tests, cognitive biases (placebo, etc.) kick in, and you do hear a difference - just not a "real" difference.  So, once you're happy with your system (and ONLY once youve upgraded all you can on gear that makes a real difference), go ahead and get some pretty looking cables, and you may enjoy your system more even though the sound hasn't technically changed.


 
   
  still hanging on to the same nonsense. still trying to start the debate. let's face it, the debate is over. you lost it. nobody believes the nonsense anymore. nobody gives a damn.
   
  there are hundreds of users who are satisfied with their cable purchases. people like to give the benefit of the doubt.
   
  it's goes like this: I ask a question about a product; two people reply. one has tried the product, the other hasn't - who I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt?
   
  ...and it's still a dbt-free zone, even for you.
   
  it's over. get over it. go bowling or something..


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## bracko

Re-cabling most often doesn't bring any significant difference to the sound, certainly not worth the price you pay. I cannot say anything about re-cabling your specific headphones but I have my own experience with HD650. Two years ago I tried Cardas cable (costing $300 in Sweden). There was no significant sound improvement, absolutely not worth 300 bucks. Moreover the cable was incredibly stiff and lots of times the sound disappeared on one of the chanels because of some kind of static/capacitive load building up. Fortunately I could return the cable after a couple of days. Re-cabling stuff is probably the most expensive audiophile exercise giving least benefits. The most interesting thing is that people buying expensive cables always perceive the changes for the better (never for the worse). I think that tells us a lot about the credibility of the method itself.


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## bedlam inside

Hi,
  Quote: 





kenyee said:


> FWIW, I didn't believe it would make a difference, but putting the $80 CH cables on my UE TF10 made a huge difference.
> Doesn't hurt that the cable and connectors are a lot better as well, but I was honestly surprised by the difference (swapped the cable a few times to be sure).  Main negative is microphonics are worse because the cable is harder


 

 Thank you. It seems I have I have hit a bit of a hornet's nest with my question.

 Where did you buy your cable?

 My headphones have a normal headphone Jack in one of the ear pieces, so I need a cable that is plug to plug. If the cable is a little stiff it does not matter, my headphones are what I think are called "full size" here. I think 80 Dollar (that is 50 Quid in money here) is okay.

 I did an experiment yesterday evening. I stole the Chord Co. Chorus interconnects from my main system and put them between the DAC and the Headphone Amp in my little headphone system, instead of the cables that came with them in the box. I think there is a definite difference, but it is quite small. I need to look where my old cables are, I remember they used to be quite decent in the 90's, maybe they will be an upgrade too?


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## bedlam inside

Hi,
   
  Quote: 





bedlam inside said:


> I did an experiment yesterday evening. I stole the Chord Co. Chorus interconnects from my main system and put them between the DAC and the Headphone Amp in my little headphone system, instead of the cables that came with them in the box. I think there is a definite difference, but it is quite small. I need to look where my old cables are, I remember they used to be quite decent in the 90's, maybe they will be an upgrade too?


 
   
  So, I found them. It says QED on them. 

 I tried them, not sure that there was a difference, maybe a little better.

 At least now I know It was worth splurging on the Chord Co. Cables for my main system. So, let me get some better cables for my headphones first, Ted, thank you for the pointers.


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## kenyee

Quote: 





bedlam inside said:


> Where did you buy your cable?
> 
> My headphones have a normal headphone Jack in one of the ear pieces, so I need a cable that is plug to plug. If the cable is a little stiff it does not matter, my headphones are what I think are called "full size" here. I think 80 Dollar (that is 50 Quid in money here) is okay.


 
   
  These: http://chrishimselfaudio.blogspot.com/
   
  A big part of it might be the thicker gauge wire (24 vs. 30 for the OEM ones).  I do believe thicker wires work better if your original wires are too thin for current to flow well.  I was still surprised at the difference though...


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## p a t r i c k

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I'll tell what is bizarre. You posting in this forum about something you never tried and know nothing about; wanting to discuss auto-suggestion and other psychology theories here.
> 
> you went to all that trouble to write that article (or whatever it is), and nobody gives a ****. it sucks


 
   
  You don't seem to be very impressed by my article
   
Suggestion and Autosuggestion in the Assessment of Audio Products
   
  which is okay by me.
   
  However I will take you up on the point you raise that I am apparently posting in this forum about something I have never tried.
   
  I put together my first Hi Fi in the late 70s and I have been listening to music through Hi Fis since that time.
   
  In the mid 80s the nature of the Hi Fi world started to change and although at the time I felt this was a good thing, in retrospect it was mostly a change for the worse.
   
  One of the changes was that magazine reviewers in the UK, and I think in the US as well, started to abandon any idea of eliminating the influence of suggestion or autosuggestion in reviews. It used to be that UK audio magazines would set up ways of reviewing Hi Fi such that they were comparing different makes of amplifier (for example) side by side, but hiding the identity of the makes. There were many different approaches to this.
   
  All that kind of reviewing went and was replaced by the kind of "reviewing" we have today.
   
  In the late 80s I did get very convinced by the idea that things that were once considered irrelevant to the sound were now relevant, and one of those things was cables. So I dutifully did as many Hi Fi enthusiasts did at that time and spent quite a lot money on cables for my Hi Fi.
   
  Each cable I purchased seemed to bring the improvements that the manufacturer had suggested, or which had been discussed in one of the "reviews". So I felt this money was very well spent.
   
  Then many life events came that meant that I could not spend so much time reading about Hi Fi. I kept the Hi Fi I had at the time and loved playing music with it. However it was not until the mid 90s when I came around again to a renewed interest in the Hi Fi itself.
   
  In the mid 90s I tried changing these cables for much cheaper alternatives I had (free cables that had been supplied with components) and I could not notice any difference in the sound. I even had an "audiophile" mains cable for my power amplifier and I tried changing that for a regular "kettle lead". I could detect no difference, and yet when I had bought that cable during my period of Hi Fi indulgence I was so sure as to the benefits it had brought the system.
   
  What had happened to me in the late 90s was that I was now listening to my Hi Fi after spending several years without reading any magazines, or indeed anything about Hi Fi. The endless suggestions repeated by the Hi Fi industry and discussion around it had been removed from me for that period.
   
  So you see I have written my article from experience of these issues.
   
  I recommend that people do read my article. You can make up your own mind about it. However an understanding that many of these so-called improvements in audio are simply the result of suggestion and autosuggestion might well save you a great deal of money.


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## bedlam inside

Patrick,

 I have read your posts here and your article. It seems a load of old bollocks to me.

 Each time I had to get my gear serviced (depressingly frequent with the Audio Innovation Amp's in the early oughties) the Shop let me borrow stuff. In part I think they wanted me to buy the new stuff. Yet non of this kit (all of it of course with rave reviews) sounded to me like my system does normally, it missed the magic. I was always very happy when things where back together.

 I was perfectly willing to change the kit. In fact, the unreliability of the Audio Innovation Monoblocks (before I got them completely re-build and changed to different types of output tubes) made me very ill disposed towards them. Yet I kept them anyway as they sounded better than all the other kit. No auto suggestion there.

 Equally, I never heard BIG changes from cables, but I did hear some.
   
  In your case, who knows. Maybe your hearing has changed? Did you have a checkup?

 That is as good an explanation as "I saw castles up the air, because HiFi News told me so"... 

 I had my ears cleaned a few years back and it certainly showed me that before my hearing wasn't all that brilliant any more...

 Cheers Rich


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## Lenni

Quote: 





p a t r i c k said:


> Spoiler: Originally%20Posted%20by%20p%20a%20t%20r%20i%20c%20k
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have not read the article. sorry. I'm not interested in reading these kind of science theories . I read it all before... no offence.
   
  is possible that auto-suggestion played a part in what you experienced (I can't say for sure), but I don't believe this is the answer to every instances where someone hear a difference. 
   
  buying cables is not an exact science. I wish it was. it'd save me the task of having to roll the dice every time I want to buy a product. for example, the Nordost's Heimdall seems to be well received, both in magazines and by users, but I hated it. I couldn't wait to get rid of it. then I got the Diamond Piccolo and.. bingo! I finally found what I was looking for... my cable search is over. 
   
  let me make this clear: what drives me to buy cables is not because of what I read on magazines, or because is what audiophiles are supposed to do - not in the slightest - at all. it's a desire of seeking better sound; it's hearing that something in the chain is not quite right; it's becoming frustrated. I can honestly say, if I didn't use the cables and source I used at the moment, I'd have already sold the speakers, or I would not listen and enjoy them as much has as I do now. no doubt about it.


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## JonnyRocket

Having never used custom cables, I can safely say they have nothing to offer.


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## bracko

Quote: 





jonnyrocket said:


> Having never used custom cables, I can safely say they have nothing to offer.


 

 Just wonder, how can you "safely" say these cables have nothing to offer if you never used them?


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## bracko

My personal opinion is that paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars for cables is a complete nonsense. Pouring your money down the drain.


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## bedlam inside

Hi,
  
  Quote: 





jonnyrocket said:


> Having never used custom cables, I can safely say they have nothing to offer.


 

 Interesting view.

 It would seem to me to be rather like a Virgin conveying that she can safely tell us that a bit of the old Posh'n'Becks has nothing to offer...

 She may be right for all we know (though I personally rather enjoy a bit of Posh'n'Becks), yet what does she base her assessment on?

 Hearsay?

 Justin Bieber?

 On the way in I asked Gazza from accounts, who let me audition some of his headphones last year.

 He says he does have a suitable spare cable and he will lend it to me to try. So I shall see what it does and report back. He mumbled something about handmade and litzwire.

 He seems rather convinced that the upgraded cables are worth having. Told me about the silver cables he recently put on his hifiman headphones. Them cables cost more than me Headphones!

 Cheers Rich


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## streetdragon

not sure about upgrade, but i have definitely downgraded my cable before. result was slight loss in amplitude and clarity. but the differences were so very slight that it took me a week to realize it. (it was actually a cable splitter i used as a strain relief)

 also i tried a soldering wire to tie/connect a 6.3 jack to a 3.5 jack, one wire for each terminal. and the result was.... quite a significant reduction in sound quality, soundstage gone and clarity gone. but again this is something completely different like lead with flux.


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## Audio-Omega

Better build quality makes a difference too.


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## drez

I have heard differences between headphone cables, ones that often went against what I was expecting. Not big differences for sure, and hardly worth spending a lot of money on for the sound quality alone. I have heard cables that sound very different but I consider them to be coloured, telling between transparent cables with sensible construction should be very difficult, and in my experience is.

What I do consider worthwhile is changing cables to reduce resistance and other losses to make headphones more efficient, to upgrade for aesthetic reasons, and to upgrade to more durable and comfortable cables. Diy cabling can also be fun.


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## JonnyRocket

bracko said:


> Just wonder, how can you "safely" say these cables have nothing to offer if you never used them?




I was being facetious, with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek


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## bracko

Quote: 





jonnyrocket said:


> I was being facetious, with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek


 
  I see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well.. I have used different custom cables and I can safely say that they actually have very little to offer.


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## JonnyRocket

bracko said:


> I see  Well.. I have used different custom cables and I can safely say that they actually have very little to offer.




I was thinking the same thing. I think you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated rig to notice a difference.


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## bracko

Quote: 





jonnyrocket said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I think you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated rig to notice a difference.


 

 Probably. And in that case the price paid for the cables would be proportionally reasonable compared to the rig. Otherwise it is just nuts to invest $500 in cables for $400 headphones or similar. In most cases I beleive it is all about showing off.


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## wink

I think that if you can't hear the difference that different cables can make it could be because of:-
   
  1. There is not that much difference between those two cables. This does not mean there is not a greater difference between two other cables.
  2. You do not have enough acuity to hear the difference between the cables, This does not mean that others cannot do so.
  3. Any reason/reasons besides the above two.


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## bedlam inside

Mates,
   


> Originally Posted by *bedlam inside* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> On the way in I asked Gazza from accounts, who let me audition some of his headphones last year.
> 
> He says he does have a suitable spare cable and he will lend it to me to try. So I shall see what it does and report back.


 

 I wanted to post this Friday evening, but I have this new bird going and she wanted to a night out and we ended up at hers. So I have been a wee bit shagged and could not muster the will to write this up till today... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On friday after lunch Gazza came over to my office with the cable he suggested fit my headphones and I should try.
   
  I also realised that I had another cable I had overlooked which would fit, a dubiously apple-ish looking cable iFi bunged in with their iCAN. 
   
  So we had us a three dog race. 
   

   
  From left to right you see first the cable Gazza brought over. He got it years ago from some guy in France. He said it was "bespoke with braided silk covered litz wire", whatever. It feels rather homemade and not in a good way. Not sure I’d pay money for it on build quality. It seems weird next to real cables, so we shall call it the “crazy frog cable” from here on.

 In the middle the flat white cable came with my iCan headamp. I had forgotten about it, but I thought if we do this cable lark, we might as well give this a go. Build seems commercial but fine, maybe a touch up from the original cable. In honour of the a KLF album I’ll call it the “white cable”.
   
  Finally we have the original stock cable that came with my headphones. It does seem well made and durable, after over six years it still works.

 I started out with what playing, Moby in MP3 (320K) from the Observer Promo CD.
   

   
  It is not the greatest source for critical listening, but plugging these cables around it was clear to me that there were differences. Nothing earth shattering, but differences still. I moved on to some other music, while Gazza, grinning like a Cheshire was going back to his job. Over the afternoon I played a wide range of music, occasionally swapping cables and my impressions in just how the cables differ became clearer.
  

   
  First the stock cable, I have been listening to it for six years and it has worked. Yet after comparing the other cables I find that it adds a certain roughness to the sound. Not sure how best to express it well. Also, everything sounds a bit flat, as if on a TV colour and contrast was turned down a little, not much, but just perceptible. I have lived with the cable for years and on my Smartphone most of the differences disappear, only with my new Amp are these differences noticeable.
   

   
  Second, the white cable, it surprised me. I was expecting it to be worse than the stick cable, yet switching it in revealed the roughness in sound of the stock cable! It also sounded a little more alive and present, with a touch more space. Given it was free this is a very pleasant discovery, it is an appreciable upgrade over the stock cable.
   

   
  Third, the crazy frog cable, this was a lot different. On Moby’s “Anthem” it way opened up the space. It was as smooth, or more so than the white cable. Even better, this cable gave the system some of the bounce and rhythm I like so much on my system at home. I played a lot of female Jazz from "Pink Champagne" - next to the crazy frog cable female vocals with the stock cable sounded as if the girls had been on the lash last night!
  

   
  Conclusion, the crazy frog cable for now is the bees knees. I really like what it does. I’ll have to haggle with Gazza if I want to keep it.
   
  But I wonder if the 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter I use on the amplifier to the headphone has any bad impact on the sound? Maybe I should get a 6.3mm to 3.5mm cable? Let's see how much Gazza wants, might get it anyway for now.

 Cheerio Rich


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## garetz

If you ever want to test if aftermarket cables make a difference, then either get a sennheiser hd 600/650 and 3 aftermarket cables. Use a decent amp, and listen to your favourite music with each cable. Then you will be able to make a distinction for yourself and wont need to depend on anyone else's opinion on the matter. That is what i did, and for me aftermarket cables can make a big difference. Doesnt mean every single headphone will benefit from an aftermarket cable, but they CAN make a difference.

 The people who always question that aftermarket cables do nothing usually come from the perspective that since they do nothing, why buy them, and if they have never bought and used them before, then their opinion isnt worth a second thought. As they have no experience on the matter.

 I also tested the change of cabling with a V-moda m80, since they use 3.5" connections, its very easy to get aftermarket cables, i bought and used about a dozen, and most of em sounded different. So there is another test you can do i guess. Usually the higher quality cables opened up the mids, and made the bass slightly tighter while also making the sound stage bigger. It also becomes slightly less muffled.


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## penmarker

Hi, my Goldring DR150 has a difference between the original cable and a custom cable called Vero 150. Tried and tested with blind testing as well.
  I have no idea how it works.


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## teds headfood

Quote: 





garetz said:


> If you ever want to test if aftermarket cables make a difference, then either get a sennheiser hd 600/650 and 3 aftermarket cables. Use a decent amp, and listen to your favourite music with each cable. Then you will be able to make a distinction for yourself and wont need to depend on anyone else's opinion on the matter. That is what i did, and for me aftermarket cables can make a big difference. Doesnt mean every single headphone will benefit from an aftermarket cable, but they CAN make a difference.
> 
> The people who always question that aftermarket cables do nothing usually come from the perspective that since they do nothing, why buy them, and if they have never bought and used them before, then their opinion isnt worth a second thought. As they have no experience on the matter.
> 
> I also tested the change of cabling with a V-moda m80, since they use 3.5" connections, its very easy to get aftermarket cables, i bought and used about a dozen, and most of em sounded different. So there is another test you can do i guess. Usually the higher quality cables opened up the mids, and made the bass slightly tighter while also making the sound stage bigger. It also becomes slightly less muffled.


 
  here here thats a great way to prove to yourself. wish others would at least be this open to THE TRUTH!


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





teds headfood said:


> here here thats a great way to prove to yourself. wish others would at least be this open to THE TRUTH!


 
   
  Ah, but which "TRUTH"?
   
  se


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## teds headfood

THE TRUTH
  you know "the truth of what each person decides after actually trying something different and making their own mind up."
  THE TRUTH


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





teds headfood said:


> THE TRUTH
> you know "the truth of what each person decides after actually trying something different and making their own mind up."
> THE TRUTH


 
   
  In that case, for me, that only extends to whether or not I like something. I don't take it any further than that.
   
  se


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## JonnyRocket

garetz said:


> If you ever want to test if aftermarket cables make a difference, then either get a sennheiser hd 600/650 and 3 aftermarket cables. Use a decent amp, and listen to your favourite music with each cable. Then you will be able to make a distinction for yourself and wont need to depend on anyone else's opinion on the matter. That is what i did, and for me aftermarket cables can make a big difference. Doesnt mean every single headphone will benefit from an aftermarket cable, but they CAN make a difference.
> 
> 
> The people who always question that aftermarket cables do nothing usually come from the perspective that since they do nothing, why buy them, and if they have never bought and used them before, then their opinion isnt worth a second thought. As they have no experience on the matter.
> ...


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## bracko

Quote: 





garetz said:


> If you ever want to test if aftermarket cables make a difference, then either get a sennheiser hd 600/650 and 3 aftermarket cables. Use a decent amp, and listen to your favourite music with each cable. Then you will be able to make a distinction for yourself and wont need to depend on anyone else's opinion on the matter. That is what i did, and for me aftermarket cables can make a big difference. Doesnt mean every single headphone will benefit from an aftermarket cable, but they CAN make a difference.
> 
> The people who always question that aftermarket cables do nothing usually come from the perspective that since they do nothing, why buy them, and if they have never bought and used them before, then their opinion isnt worth a second thought. As they have no experience on the matter.
> 
> I also tested the change of cabling with a V-moda m80, since they use 3.5" connections, its very easy to get aftermarket cables, i bought and used about a dozen, and most of em sounded different. So there is another test you can do i guess. Usually the higher quality cables opened up the mids, and made the bass slightly tighter while also making the sound stage bigger. It also becomes slightly less muffled.


 
   
  And what if I actually have tested an aftermarket cable (Cardas) with my HD650 and it actually sounded worse than the stock cable?


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## penmarker

Quote: 





bracko said:


> And what if I actually have tested an aftermarket cable (Cardas) with my HD650 and it actually sounded worse than the stock cable?


 
  Then don't buy any of them.


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## garetz

Quote: 





bracko said:


> And what if I actually have tested an aftermarket cable (Cardas) with my HD650 and it actually sounded worse than the stock cable?


 

 If it sounded worse to you, then just proves my point, as naysayers will attest that all cables sound the same, but if an aftermarket cable sounds worse, then all cables do not sound the same, so you can tell a difference.

 In the end you are not just using an aftermarket cable, you also have to worry about the source, and the amp, the hd650, as most people can attest doesnt sound great with all genres of music, so there is many variables that can make the aftermarket sound worse than it should. As long as you keep all the variables constant, when changing the cables, and make sure the amp/source is at least as good as the headphones deserve, then the aftermarket cables should sound better. If it sounded worse than stock then you are doing something wrong imo.


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## bracko

A





garetz said:


> If it sounded worse to you, then just proves my point, as naysayers will attest that all cables sound the same, but if an aftermarket cable sounds worse, then all cables do not sound the same, so you can tell a difference.
> 
> 
> In the end you are not just using an aftermarket cable, you also have to worry about the source, and the amp, the hd650, as most people can attest doesnt sound great with all genres of music, so there is many variables that can make the aftermarket sound worse than it should. As long as you keep all the variables constant, when changing the cables, and make sure the amp/source is at least as good as the headphones deserve, then the aftermarket cables should sound better. If it sounded worse than stock then you are doing something wrong imo.




Actually the Cardas upgrade sounded "worse" in the sense that it created voltage drops and static charge. Actual sound difference maybe was there but not worth paying extra 300 bucks. That is the whole point for me in this case. Paying 800 bucks for hd650 with aftermarket cable is just nuts.


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## drez

bracko said:


> A
> Actually the Cardas upgrade sounded "worse" in the sense that it created voltage drops and static loads. Actual sound difference maybe was there but not worth paying extra 300 bucks. That is the whole point for me in this case. Paying 800 bucks for hd650 with aftermarket cable is just nuts.




Hmm Cardas do some funky stuff with their cable geometry, I always wondered what it would sound like there should be heaps of inductance (I don't understand what static load means). A case of audiophile cable construction failing?


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## bracko

Quote: 





drez said:


> Hmm Cardas do some funky stuff with their cable geometry, I always wondered what it would sound like there should be heaps of inductance (I don't understand what static load means). A case of audiophile cable construction failing?


 
  I meant "static charge". Sorry


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## JonnyRocket

How well would an aftermarket cable really work? Wouldn't you have to rewire the inside of the headphone with the same aftermarket wire to get a good result?


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## gilency

lenni said:


> I'll tell what is bizarre. You posting in this forum about something you never tried and know nothing about; wanting to discuss auto-suggestion and other psychology theories here.
> 
> you went to all that trouble to write that article (or whatever it is), and nobody gives a ****. it sucks




Not true, unless your name is nobody. 
So don't insult a guy who is giving his honest and true opinion. Many of us are evidence based. If you are not, good for you.


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## Willx

I agree w/ streetdragon...


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## drez

gilency said:


> Not true, unless your name is nobody.
> So don't insult a guy who is giving his honest and true opinion. Many of us are evidence based. If you are not, good for you.




This thread shouldn't really be discussing views on scientific approach to listening, there are other threads in other subforums which are better places for that where it wont derail the thread. Not saying I agree or disagree with anything in particular but discussion of scientific views on this topic probably risk derailing the thread, simple anecdotes do not.


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## gilency

That may be true, but there is not need to insult somebody who disagree. I you can't keep it civil, don't post.
  Besides, there is a need for an opposite view. Newbies who read this may be persuaded that cables are worth it, and they may not be for them.


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## bracko

drez said:


> This thread shouldn't really be discussing views on scientific approach to listening, there are other threads in other subforums which are better places for that where it wont derail the thread. Not saying I agree or disagree with anything in particular but discussion of scientific views on this topic probably risk derailing the thread, simple anecdotes do not.


 The OP wonders if the aftermarket cables make difference and that is what everybody here is discussing. Some people though (like lenni) don't use words but a sledgehammer. That is not ok.


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## Happy Camper

They certainly have an influence. To what degree is up to the user.


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## streetdragon

Quote: 





happy camper said:


> They certainly have an influence. To what degree is up to the user.


 
  and also direction of change as well (though normally it is up)


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## Lenni

Quote: 





gilency said:


> Not true, unless your name is nobody.
> So don't insult a guy who is giving his honest and true opinion. Many of us are evidence based. If you are not, good for you.


 
  you seem to be pretty upset by my comment...lol... I'm not sure why.
   
  fact is, it's pretty obvious why this is a DBT-free forum; there's nothing inexplicable or bizarre about it... don't you think? - or do I have to spell it out for you?
  so, if you don't want to get a straight reply to your comment, don't post stupid comments. I could go on and on about it, and make you really upset, but I won't.
   
  I don't know whether you think cables upgrade is all a scam or not, and I don't care. this is not the forum to discuss science "theories". it may come as a surprise to you, but we don't care. if I want to read about telekinesis and psyche, I go to the science forum, where all the experts and knowledgeable people are.
   
  don't get too upset...


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## merkil

Deleted.

 Will fix when I get to a comp. the mobile site is not cutting it right now for me!


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## Lenni

Quote: 





bracko said:


> The OP wonders if the aftermarket cables make difference and that is what everybody here is discussing. Some people though (like lenni) don't use words but a sledgehammer. That is not ok.


 
  I'd agree, and I'm aware of becoming unpopular making that kind of comments, but someone has to question the nonsense.
   
   at some point you could not make a post in this forum without someone from the science crusaders replying within seconds. people who want to ask or post about cables should do so without feeling uneasy about it. 
   
  it beggars belief. this's the cable forum. if cables are nothing to you - fine - just don't force your science beliefs down on others. (I'm talking in general, muxamed, not specifically at you)


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## bracko

Quote: 





lenni said:


> I'd agree, and I'm aware of becoming unpopular making that kind of comments, but someone has to question the nonsense.
> 
> at some point you could not make a post in this forum without someone from the science crusaders replying within seconds. people who want to ask or post about cables should do so without feeling uneasy about it.
> 
> it beggars belief. this's the cable forum. if cables are nothing to you - fine - just don't force your science beliefs down on others. (I'm talking in general, muxamed, not specifically at you)


 
   
  Actually I don't see anything strange in people with different experiences replying differently to the question "Do cable upgrades really work?". The OP didn't expect an unbalanced answer, he expected a discussion I believe. Otherwise he wouldn't ask that question. It is an honest question which needs an honest answer, not an one-sided answer. We all have different experiences with cables and as such the OP's question can be answered in many different ways. Ithink it is important to respect that and to not attack people as soon as they have different opinion about something. To make a long story short I don't think that "science believers" are forcing their beliefs on others more then "cable believers" do. The best thing for everyone (and for the OP) is to test different cables and to make their own decision. On a forum like this we can only give our own honest opinions and that is what everybody here is trying to do.


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## gilency

Lenni, you need to go to etiquette school. 
I am not upset, just don't see a reason for bullies like you. 
Having said that. I am out of this thread and you are in my ignore list.


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## bedlam inside

Guys,
  Quote:  





> The OP wonders if the aftermarket cables make difference and that is what everybody here is discussing.


 

 I am sorry to have caused all this kerfuffle. Really, it's only HiFi. 

 For those who missed it earlier, I had a listen and to my ears at least, there is a difference and an improvement. To me.

 To others, who knows and who cares. If cables make no difference fer ya, don't buy 'em...
   
  Cheerio Rich 

 PS., I'll exit this thread here, it has run it's course I think, for me anyway...


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## Currawong

Quote: 





lenni said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It seems bizzare, but the reason is that people are unable to discuss the topic in the forums without it ending up with posts such as this being made.
   
  *CLOSED*


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## Zephead (Jul 28, 2018)

I always used to believe that cables made no difference, however, I recently bought some Hifiman HE400i headphones and wasn't happy with the stock cable due to the stiffness. So I bought a replacement off amazon https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06WLKPWJG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I was quite happy with that but decided to make my own cable because I could and I was rather surprised to find out that it sounded better than the Amazon cable. As I wasn't, at all, expecting this I do actually believe that a cable can make a difference. However, the sum total of the parts cost was about £20 so that leads me to believe that the amazon cable must be crap. I still don't believe that you need to spends £100's on cables.


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## X1787X

I just bought a pair of sivga sv004. It uses a basic 3.5 to 3.5 cable. The headphones comes with 2 cables, a 2 m cable and 4 feet cable with a microphone. Surprisingly the one with the microphone sounded better. I then bought a 9 dollar Chinese cable to compare. It sounded even better with more details and I heard things I hadn't heard.


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## jlspa182

I notice a difference from a 15 cable to a 100 cable, but not from a 100 cable to a 300 cable.


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