# Practical Devices XM5



## MatthewK

Ordered a Practical Devices XM5 amp this morning. I'm very excited to get it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It will be my first portable amp.

 I'll be using it with an iPod (6G) 160GB, ZyCable Zn7 iPod LOD (from head-direct.com), and either the Denon D2000 or Sennheiser HD25-1 'phones.

 Do you own one? What are your thoughts on it?

 Anyone have recommendations for opamp rolling? It'll have the BUF634P chips installed when they come in the mail (sadly, it might take a few weeks). I'm considering the OPA627 and LME49710 opamps, maybe the AD8610. I'm not really interested in dual-channel opamps, I want to keep the monoblock configuration.


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## RAQemUP

I think it just came out recently. You probably may be the first with a impression/review thread when you get it.


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## MatthewK

I think this is one of the very few portable amps out there that has both a bass and a* treble* boost. Something I don't like about the other amps is that they don't have an easily user-replaceable battery, the XM5 does (9V). Even rechargeable batteries wear out after a while. There's a lot of other features that are nice too. I'd say my only gripe about the specs (this is before actually testing it though) is the DAC, it's a Cirrus-Logic chip and 24/96 would have been better. But they did pack quite a bit into such a small package. It would have been good even without the DAC thrown in.

 My initial review may not be as good as it could be since I won't have the BUF634P chips right away. The Denon D2000 'phones need a lot of current (rating at 1,800mW), so the BUF634P should help quite a bit in that regard.

 Even those who don't have it, can you recommend some opamps? What do you think of the ones I mentioned in my original post?


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## basman

I really like the amp implementation of XM5 draw back only is the DAC chip used.


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## Drag0n

Sounds like something im going to keep my eye on to see what others say to decide whether to pull the trigger and add it to my growing collection of portable amps


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## MatthewK

Wow, am I really the first one to buy it on Head-Fi??


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## egoo33

well im using the xm5 with my akg 701s and all i can say is wow, absolutely worth its price in gold and got it with in 2 days counting the weekend


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## MatthewK

I'm hoping mine will come in the mail before the weekend, I ordered it on Monday. I'm in Minnesota which borders Canada, so you'd think it wouldn't take too long...

 Have you done any opamp rolling? I've got an LME49710 and OPA627 in the mail. I didn't get the BUF634P with it because I found someone who offered them to me for a great price (but I won't get it for a few weeks, dangit), so I'll be stuck with the copper bars for a little while. Are you using the BUF634P buffers?


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## MatthewK

Still waiting for it to come in. Hopefully it'll be here early next week.

 There's one thing I'm not happy about though. I emailed P.D. and asked their advice on opamp rolling. They've never replied back and it's been several days. Now it's possible their spam catcher deleted my email, or perhaps they are just too busy, but it would be nice if they sent back at least _some kind_ of reply. Even a "sorry, can't help you" would be better than nothing at all. I really hate it when people ignore emails..


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## Fungi

It might be a case of lost email or something; when the knob on my XM4 went bad I emailed them, and they replied quickly and sent a replacement right away.


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## brotherlen

I've owned the xm4 (and lost an xm4). Its a solid little device. I'll probably add the xm5 for my portable, can't decide black or silver?


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## walls

Ive been waiting for reviews of this amp since I first read it was coming out. I am thinking that this may be my first portable amp!

 Looking forward to some reviews!!


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## bobloblaw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MatthewK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I emailed P.D. and asked their advice on opamp rolling. They've never replied back and it's been several days._

 

Here's what they told me:

  Quote:


 There are 3 options we currently offer.

 1) OPA134 only
 2) OPA134 with BUF634 buffering
 3) AD8397 amp/buffers

 Aside from this we aren't currently offering any other options. However,
 there are many other chips you can use other than the OPA134's. OPA627,
 for example, seems to be a favorite (we don't have it in-stock; however,
 it is readily available from digi-key.com and others). The OPA134's (and
 OPA627) pinout is "semi-standard"; _most_ single-channel opamps in a DIP8
 package will work. 
 

I'm interested in this, too. I got the BUF634 upgrade, and am looking into options for opamp rolling. A lot of the recommended options seem to only be available in dual-channel configurations (at least from Digikey). Anyone know of some solid single-channel options for this amp? I'm pairing with HD650's, if that makes a difference.


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## MatthewK

Thanks bobloblaw. They did answer some of my emails, so I think it may have just been a case of going into their spambox or something.

 Someone is sending me some BUF634P chips, but it's probably going to take another week or two to get here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Because the Denon D2000 has an input rating of 1,800mW the BUF634P chips should increase the current quite a bit. It'll be interesting to see what kind of difference that makes.

 I'm currently using the OPA627. It seems a little better than the OPA134 (which is supposed to be very similar). I think the bass is slightly better. Was it worth the high price of the OPA627? Probably not, but I'm going to wait and see what happens with the BUF634P chips.

 I've also tried the LME49710NA chips. I'm not sure if I like them or not. I think I'll wait until I get the BUF634P chips to make a final judgment. Actually, the only reason I haven't written a review yet is because I'm waiting for those darn buffer chips...


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## basman

How do you compare XM5 to other amps? Please post some pics of your XM5!

 Thanks!


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## MatthewK

Unfortunately I haven't owned any other amps, this is my first one. But once I get the BUF634P chips I'll try to do the best review I can (possibly with pics). I've done a lot of OPAMP rolling, so I'll at least be able to provide a comparison there.


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## brotherlen

I'm pulling the trigger on one tonight!


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## basman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MatthewK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unfortunately I haven't owned any other amps, this is my first one. But once I get the BUF634P chips I'll try to do the best review I can (possibly with pics). I've done a lot of OPAMP rolling, so I'll at least be able to provide a comparison there._

 

Thanks Matthew. Practical devices should revise its DAC section or much better to release the amp only for XM5. I'm planning to have another portable setup XM5->ER4P.


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## MatthewK

This is the only portable amp that comes to mind with an increased Treble option. I always leave the Bass Boost and Treble Boost options on, and in fact I wish they would boost them a bit more. I really wish someone would come out with a portable amp that has a full fledged hardware EQ, even if there were no switches/knobs and it was only programmable via USB. The iPod's EQ is, not the greatest...


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## BillyGoDef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MatthewK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm hoping mine will come in the mail before the weekend, I ordered it on Monday. I'm in Minnesota which borders Canada, so you'd think it wouldn't take too long...

 Have you done any opamp rolling? I've got an LME49710 and OPA627 in the mail. I didn't get the BUF634P with it because I found someone who offered them to me for a great price (but I won't get it for a few weeks, dangit), so I'll be stuck with the copper bars for a little while. Are you using the BUF634P buffers?_

 

Head-fi is a great place to find info on all this stuff. I have been lurking for a few months to figure out what rig I wanted to buy. I decided to spend the bulk of my money on the headphones and then find quality but cheaper amp/souce systems. 

 I bought an XM-5 recently. Black. This is my first portable amp. I'm using it with an iPOD 5.5G 80GB and either Black Dragon AKG 701's for home (still going through break-in) or Audio Technica 900 limited edition cans for work. The Audio Technica 900's are a closed back system that isolates the sound. Perfect for work. These are the most comfortable headphones i have ever worn. The only complaint is that if its really hot out, the synthetic leather pads can get a little sweaty. At home, the 701's are a bit lighter in sound and more clear but lack some of the bass. Fortunately, the XM-5 has the bass boost which takes care of this. Also, with the open design, the AKG's don't isolate the ambient noise as well. Its fine for home, but you can hear things around you and people can definitely hear your headphones. The only complaint I have about these are the upper head pad has bumps in the leather and one of them is centered on the top of your head. It causes a pressure point and makes my move the headphones around every 15 minutes or so to move the pressure point. I guess I need to bling these out with some red crush velvet.

 I put in some OPA 627 opamps and am running it with the BUF634P chips. It sounds great. With the AKG 701's I use the crossfeed at about 15%, treble boost and bass boost. I turn off the bass boost for the Audio Technica's. The OPA627's added a slightly darker/warmer feel to the system. I would say it has lightly more bass but the feel is ever so slightly richer. I would be hard pressed to tell the difference if you swapped them out and asked me which configuration the amp was running in. The entire system is very clear with a good S/N ratio until you turn it up all the way (past 80%). There is so much power that you will probably damage headphones at this range and definitely your eardrums. 

 One thing I noticed is that you can tell if you have a crappy MP3 really quick. I'll just leave it at that. With good MP3's, the sound is really good. The system with the AKG's is so clear that I can hear vocal tracks or instrument tracks start and stop on some songs with a little bit of background hiss that is correlated with the tracks. Its like I can hear the sound editor splice in the separate tracks. The Audio technica's are much more forgiving and have a warmer feel to the music. You won't hear as much distortion or pops from MP3's with the Audio Technicas that you do wtih the AKG's.

 I had a problem with my free interconnect cable that came with the XM-5. I e-mailed the customer service and had a reply, "we'll ship one out today" within an hour. Great customer service....even on the freebies. My interconnect cable was shorting one of the signal wires to the ground at the connector. 

 I am curious if anyone put the OPA134 opamps in the buffer slots with a diff opamp in the amp slots. I read somewhere on opamp comparisons that this was a pretty good combo to use OPA627 amps with OPA134 buffers on a home audio preamp. I have the stuff to try it, I just didn't want yo blow up my new toy yet.


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## Harvey/ Ga

Not a lot of info on the XM5 here..at least compared to the little Dots and Ibasso Boa, etc. However, I decided to order one 2 days ago. Being a retired computer geek, I liked all the features the XM-5 has. I would have ordered the Boa, but the op-amps can't be rolled, and I just _MAY_ want to explore that option, once I learn more about them. I am getting the AD8397 op-amp, so I will have something to play with. Dunno about rolling the DAC... the writeup looks pretty good to my eyes. 

 I'll be using it with a laptop (hence the DAC need) and AKG K240S head phones. I'll be comparing it with my Microshar 107B amp...a very plain, but reasonable decent unit...my first amp.

 Hope to read more about XM-5 tests....will write my own in a few weeks.

 Harvey/ Ga


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## CountChoculaBot

There was somebody who posted a great review of the XM5. I'll try to find it...

 edit

 yay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/r...es-xm5-314305/


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## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brotherlen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've owned the xm4 (and lost an xm4). Its a solid little device. I'll probably add the xm5 for my portable, can't decide black or silver?_

 

Black goes with everything.


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## Harvey/ Ga

Hi Billygodef..

 I'm a new XM-5 owner as well. Mine has the AD8397 op-amp. Sounds great with my AKG K240S headphones.

 I've discussed different op-amps w/ PD, and the word is that any op-amp with the same pin-out as the OPA134 should work..BUT the pinouts for the buffer sockets are for the BUF634, which is different from most buffer chips.

 I'm new to this op-amp stuff, being more versed in discrete transistors from the 'Stone Age". <GG> Like many, I'm learning from Head-Fi's amp rolling gurus.


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## fhissataka

I have a XM5 since the beginning of this year. It does a nice job driving my triple.fi or my Beyer DT770 using my ipod 5.5g as a source. 

 I don't use most of its features though. Crossfeed doesn't make a big difference for my ears, and I normally prefer to use a flat eq, without bass or treble boost. 

 DAC quality is ok, but is only slighty superior to my ipod's line out. 

 Practical Devices support is very good, and James always replies to my emails very quickly.


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## brotherlen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Keppel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Black goes with everything._

 

sure does, I got mine a few months ago. I like it. PD was cool and gave me a discount for being a previous customer, along with upgrade. They sent it out so fast, they forgot to upgrade it. PD took care of immediately.


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## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brotherlen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sure does, I got mine a few months ago. I like it. PD was cool and gave me a discount for being a previous customer, along with upgrade. They sent it out so fast, they forgot to upgrade it. PD took care of immediately._

 

PD included the 134 chips with mine. I recently installed them in place of the 8397 chip and have noticed a slight difference in the sound. I can't quite place my finger on it, as I don't have the other to compare. They don't have the max volume that the 8397 has, but the battery life is 10 hrs longer.


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## brotherlen

I'll probably try and fill the buffer/amp slots with upgraded chips before considering a new amp. I'm not familiar with the amps that are out there to upgrade with. (chipsets)


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## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brotherlen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll probably try and fill the buffer/amp slots with upgraded chips before considering a new amp. I'm not familiar with the amps that are out there to upgrade with. (chipsets)_

 

If you're thinking about filling the buffer slots, they only fit the BUF634 chip.. a non-standard pinout, according to James.

 From what I can see from your initial post, you have an XM-5?? (or is it the XM-4?) The BUF634 chips are very expensive from PD..haven't priced them from other sources.

 If you have the XM-5 with the OPA134 chips, ask James to sell you an AD 8397
 chip on the adapter (DoubleCat chip??)


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## MaxAmplitude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *basman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like the amp implementation of XM5 draw back only is the DAC chip used._

 

FYI We've since replaced the DAC in the XM5 due to popular demand; the DAC is now the PCM2702 from BurrBrown/TI - a substantial improvement. We've been shipping the new DAC on all units since June08. Link is here.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The BUF634 chips are very expensive from PD..haven't priced them from other sources._

 

Yes, these chips aren't cheap. The last time I talked to TI a few months ago, TI hadn't been able to produce this chip for well over a year, and couldn't say when they'll produce more (I'm wondering if they lost the masks for the silicon die?) - thus, the stock which is still floating around demands a substantial premium from reputable distributors... and we have to pass the cost along. I don't like it, but that's the situation for now. If you know of a source, let me know!


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## ZoNtO

I'm getting more and more excited about this thing, wish Larry was feeling better so he could get on his review....


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## GreatDane

I just ordered an XM5 with BUF634. I'm anxious to test it against my Pico DAC. I don't plan to use the DAC much now but it's always a good thing to have...it will serve as my iPod amp for HD650 mainly, also ER4P & 325i...should have more than enough power.

 I can't wait!

 I look forward to reading Larry's review also.


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## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered an XM5 with BUF634._

 

Same thing I have. It's a solid unit with some handy features I think. Thinking about getting the HD650s myself in the next couple days.

 I've been using it mainly connected to my computer as a DAC+AMP though, haven't used it as a portable much yet.


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## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered an XM5 with BUF634. I'm anxious to test it against my Pico DAC. I don't plan to use the DAC much now but it's always a good thing to have...it will serve as my iPod amp for HD650 mainly, also ER4P & 325i...should have more than enough power.

 I can't wait!

 I look forward to reading Larry's review also._

 

I'll be interested in reading your results. Mine came with the AD 8397 chip, and it drove my AKG K-240's very well. Supposed to have a bit more output then the OPA 134 with BUF 634. 

 PD also sent me the OPA134 chips, and I recently installed them as my first chip rolling experiment. The output was less, but still drove the K-240's very well. The sound was slightly different, but I'd have to compare them together to determine which I liked better


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be interested in reading your results. Mine came with the AD 8397 chip, and it drove my AKG K-240's very well. Supposed to have a bit more output then the OPA 134 with BUF 634. 

 PD also sent me the OPA134 chips, and I recently installed them as my first chip rolling experiment. The output was less, but still drove the K-240's very well. The sound was slightly different, but I'd have to compare them together to determine which I liked better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

But with the AD8397 you lose the dual mono feature of the amp.


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## ZoNtO

What exactly does that mean (the dual-mono stuff)? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yay for n00bs not being afraid to admit it!


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## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But with the AD8397 you lose the dual mono feature of the amp._

 

True... I'm not that well versed in the significance of that or other 'phone amp features like Xin's 4 channel amps.... we only have 2 ears ???

 I'm quite a newbie at this. I do know that i prefer the XM-5 over my Microshar 107B. Perhaps it's fortunate that I can't listen to many of the units that are written about on Head-Fi (altho I'd love to ) I hope to try a few different Op-amps later on to see if there's a difference.


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## HeadphoneAddict

In a dual mono configuration, current draw on one channel does not rob the other channel of power. It's like using dual mono block amps in a home speaker rig, where the two channels are isolated from one another. This made a big difference on my Woo WA6 tube amp when the left and right driver tubes were isolated from each other's power supply. It can also assist in better channel separation and soundstage.


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## GreatDane

I will also admit to not know much about the different amp chips, I've never spent the time to experiment even though I've owned a Xin amp in the past that would have allowed me to do so.

 Thanks Larry for that explanation about dual mono. I was never quite sure about the advantages.

 James tells me that my XM5 has shipped! YEA!


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## oogabooga

I'll throw in another question from the peanut gallery (i.e. me) - what's the impact of using these BUF634 chips? Does it improve SQ? Or does it just let you drive higher impedance headphones?


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## HeadphoneAddict

They increase current, not voltage. Watts = Volts x Amps and with more current that means more watts (power) at the headphone jack. Comparing to plumbing, the voltage is equivalent to the water pressure, the current is equivalent to the flow rate, and the resistance is like the pipe size.

 Of course there are other issues, like how higher headphone impedance (resistance) lowers the current that will flow, and thus power will be different with low impedance vs high impedance headphones. Current is = Voltage/Impedance, so with high impedance headphones you can increase voltage to get more current. Some amps use voltage multipliers internally, especially those that run on 1 or two AA or AAA batteries. I don't think the XM5 does that since it is already 9v.

 The thing is, with some amps and low impedance headphones like Grado or Denon they run out of juice, and the buf634 should prevent that from happening. I don't know that it affects driving HD600 as much.

 Hopefully an expert will pop in to clarifiy that.


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## oogabooga

Would IEMs like TF10s run out of juice and benefit with BUF634s? Any idea if the buffer chips impact SQ?

 Thanks!


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would IEMs like TF10s run out of juice and benefit with BUF634s? Any idea if the buffer chips impact SQ?

 Thanks!_

 

Many IEM like Triple.fi are so efficient they don't run out of juice when you only need 20-30ma to get quite loud, while the D2000 can take about all the power you can throw at it (1800ma) they don't need that much either.


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## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They increase current, not voltage. Watts = Volts x Amps and with more current that means more watts (power) at the headphone jack. Comparing to plumbing, the voltage is equivalent to the water pressure, the current is equivalent to the flow rate, and the resistance is like the pipe size.

 Of course there are other issues, like how higher headphone impedance (resistance) lowers the current that will flow, and thus power will be different with low impedance vs high impedance headphones. Current is = Voltage/Impedance, so with high impedance headphones you can increase voltage to get more current. Some amps use voltage multipliers internally, especially those that run on 1 or two AA or AAA batteries. I don't think the XM5 does that since it is already 9v.

 The thing is, with some amps and low impedance headphones like Grado or Denon they run out of juice, and the buf634 should prevent that from happening. I don't know that it affects driving HD600 as much.

 Hopefully an expert will pop in to clarifiy that._

 


 The XM5 seems interesting I tend to like things with lots fo feautes and customizations.

 If i got it I would be using it with a zune 30 and Atrio M5 version 2's.

 This talk of opamp rolling and buffer chips is completely foreign to me. 

 Seeing as my IEM's are not weird or hard to drive do I need to worry about any additional chips or upgrade if I bought this amp?

 Is there any real SQ benefit for easy to drive normal IEM's like the Atrio's?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The XM5 seems interesting I tend to like things with lots fo feautes and customizations.

 If i got it I would be using it with a zune 30 and Atrio M5 version 2's.

 This talk of opamp rolling and buffer chips is completely foreign to me. 

 Seeing as my IEM's are not weird or hard to drive do I need to worry about any additional chips or upgrade if I bought this amp?

 Is there any real SQ benefit for easy to drive normal IEM's like the Atrio's?_

 

If you have a line out on your DAP that has better sound quality than the headphone jack, then the amp can be a benefit, otherwise with easy to drive IEM using an amp via the headphone out is a waste of time.


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## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you have a line out on your DAP that has better sound quality than the headphone jack, then the amp can be a benefit, otherwise with easy to drive IEM using an amp via the headphone out is a waste of time._

 

I tend to agree. I bought my XM-5 to use with full sized headphones and Classical music. I've settled on a Sansa Fuze and find that the output is adequate for my IEM's...but mine are't the fancy, hard to drive models.


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## csroc

HeadphoneAddict, I noticed in a post of yours about the Nuforce Icon Mobile that touching the device may cause static sounds in the headphones. I've noticed this with my XM5, is this something you've experienced with a lot of headphone amps? With the very dry winter air I often get shocked by my laptop and can feel it but I can't feel it with the XM5, I only hear it as a series of small pops in the headphones when I touch the case or the volume knob.

 I believe I also saw mention of someone experiencing some sort of static discharge with their RSA Mustang in the big RSA Mustang thread.

 I'm getting in to the habit of touching something to discharge my static build up before handling the amp when it's connected via USB to my computer but this does make me curious about other amps. I predict it will go away when the air is more humid (next week I'll be visiting family and they have a whole house humidifier so I'm curious to see if that solves the problem). I imagine this isn't an uncommon thing with many amps though, but I have limited experience with other small/portable amps. Curious on your thoughts.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, I noticed in a post of yours about the Nuforce Icon Mobile that touching the device may cause static sounds in the headphones. I've noticed this with my XM5, is this something you've experienced with a lot of headphone amps? With the very dry winter air I often get shocked by my laptop and can feel it but I can't feel it with the XM5, I only hear it as a series of small pops in the headphones when I touch the case or the volume knob.

 I'm getting in to the habit of touching something to discharge my static build up before handling the amp when it's connected via USB to my computer but this does make me curious about other amps. I predict it will go away when the air is more humid (next week I'll be visiting family and they have a whole house humidifier so I'm curious to see if that solves the problem). I imagine this isn't an uncommon thing with many amps though, but I have limited experience with other small/portable amps. Curious on your thoughts._

 

I have only experienced it with the Nuforce so far, not the XM5 or others. I need to turn our humidifier up higher I think.


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## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have only experienced it with the Nuforce so far, not the XM5 or others. I need to turn our humidifier up higher I think._

 

Yeah I think I need to have my humidifier running more. I only have a small unit and mostly run it at night so I don't wind up dried out overnight. I think by the time I usually do most listening (afternoon through the evening) the humidity in the room has dropped so that makes the static more of an issue.

 I emailed Practical Devices and they suggested the same thing. I'm curious to see what happens next week.


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## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... touching the device may cause static sounds in the headphones. I've noticed this with my XM5, is this something you've experienced with a lot of headphone amps? With the very dry winter air I often get shocked by my laptop and can feel it but I can't feel it with the XM5, I only hear it as a series of small pops in the headphones when I touch the case or the volume knob._

 

csroc - this is something I've noticed with my XM5 as well. If I have the wallwart plugged in and am listening to music via USB, I can hear a crackling when I touch the case - it's quite reproducible. I've also heard static on the odd occasion when touching the XM5 when it's not plugged into the wallwart (still playing music via USB), but that's much rarer and the static is MUCH quieter.


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## swanlee

So any further sound quality opinions? How does this amp sound compared to other amp in it's price range?


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## HeadphoneAddict

The following thread is where I'll be putting my XM5 review in a few days:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/u...uforce-306883/

 If you take a look I have some comments in the thread since the 12th. But I am not ready to comment much more about it until I post my review.


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## GreatDane

My XM5 arrived today. Thanks James!

 With only 4 hours so far I think I'm going to like this amp very much. I've tried my 325i and ER4P so far. My SE cable for HD650 recently failed me so I'll have to wait...

 I'm listening to my electronic playlist with ER4P using the +75 Ohm & bass boost. Wow. 

 I haven't tried the DAC yet but my main use will be paired with a 120 Classic.


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## oogabooga

Do you find it a bit "bright"? I've been fiddling around with an 0404 and found it dark using the 0404's headphone out - when I use the line out of the 0404 to the XM5 the music brightens up a bit.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My XM5 arrived today. Thanks James!

 With only 4 hours so far I think I'm going to like this amp very much. I've tried my 325i and ER4P so far. My SE cable for HD650 recently failed me so I'll have to wait...

 I'm listening to my electronic playlist with ER4P using the +75 Ohm & bass boost. Wow. 

 I haven't tried the DAC yet but my main use will be paired with a 120 Classic.




_

 

I really like it too.

 I spent most Sunday using the XM5 with Macbook and Denon D2000 (woodied re-cabled) and loving it. Then I switched to my Freq Show triple driver customs, and the XM5 is the first amp to really make the Freq Show sound very good. I don't know why, but they are a match made in heaven and I've been looking for something to make the Freq Show sound as good as my Livewires for months. Before they were only slightly better than an Image X10 and not as good as a Triple.fi either (which I thought the Image also beat).

 I have to spend more time with RS-1, Edition 9 and HD600 before we leave at noon the 23rd for winter vacation, and I'll have to finish my review there (with my IEM's and ATH-ESW10JPN. Bad timing and all having just finished burn-in on Sunday right before we fly out. Worst case scenario, the review is done not this weekend but the next. So far, I do feel I'll be putting it in the top tier of portable USB DAC amps along with Predator, Pico and 2MOVE.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, I noticed in a post of yours about the Nuforce Icon Mobile that touching the device may cause static sounds in the headphones. I've noticed this with my XM5, is this something you've experienced with a lot of headphone amps? With the very dry winter air I often get shocked by my laptop and can feel it but I can't feel it with the XM5, I only hear it as a series of small pops in the headphones when I touch the case or the volume knob.

 I believe I also saw mention of someone experiencing some sort of static discharge with their RSA Mustang in the big RSA Mustang thread.

 I'm getting in to the habit of touching something to discharge my static build up before handling the amp when it's connected via USB to my computer but this does make me curious about other amps. I predict it will go away when the air is more humid (next week I'll be visiting family and they have a whole house humidifier so I'm curious to see if that solves the problem). I imagine this isn't an uncommon thing with many amps though, but I have limited experience with other small/portable amps. Curious on your thoughts._

 

I finally had an episode I have to attribute to static on Sunday. I sat down to listen to Macbook with XM5, and there was noise in the background like rice crispies. I tried all kinds of IEM and phones and still there, unplugged power from macbook and from amp, still there. Then unplugged and shut off the amp for a while during dinner, with nothing connected (no power, USB or phones), and reconnected everything while grounded and the noise was gone.

 Hasn't come back yet, but I am noticing static build up when I slide out of my microfiber listening chair. PS: the noise was only with using the DAC, not line out. Again, it did go away with letting the amp sit a while, and doesn't seem damaged by the static.


----------



## csroc

I've never noticed the static unless I touched the unit and no music was playing (or I muted the audio), but perhaps that depends on what it's connected to. It's almost impossible for me to hear the static over music at normal listening volumes because it's not very loud (would be audible during a quiet passage or sustained note probably).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never noticed the static unless I touched the unit and no music was playing (or I muted the audio), but perhaps that depends on what it's connected to. It's almost impossible for me to hear the static over music at normal listening volumes because it's not very loud (would be audible during a quiet passage or sustained note probably)._

 

Yes, very quiet, only audible during quiet passages with the volume turned up. Gone with unplugging/shutting it off during dinner.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, very quiet, only audible during quiet passages with the volume turned up. Gone with unplugging/shutting it off during dinner._

 

So does the static only happen when using it as a dac? If I get one I will only be using it as a portable amp for my zune.

 Without giving away your review any audible hiss? And are the Treble and Bass boosts useful?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Can't really reply much now. Crackle DAC only, only if zapped with static shuffling along carpet, no hiss, boost nice.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't really reply much now. Crackle DAC only, only if zapped with static shuffling along carpet, no hiss, boost nice._

 

Thanx, cant wait for your review


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you find it a bit "bright"? I've been fiddling around with an 0404 and found it dark using the 0404's headphone out - when I use the line out of the 0404 to the XM5 the music brightens up a bit._

 

I don't find the XM5 to be bright or have any bad qualities. Even though with very low hours I find it to sound very good, I don't plan to critically compare it to my other amps which I can use as reference. What you perceive to be "bright" might simply be that you're hearing a better amp with good detail.I have no experience with 0404 so that's just a wild thought.

 After at least 100 hours I plan to:

 *Compare XM5 DAC to Pico DAC using both HP outs into my Central Station using it's SS amp.

 *Compare XM5 amp directly to Pico amp using line in from iPod Classic.

 *Compare XM5 DAC to Pico DAC using internal amps. 

 This will be with HD 650 & ER4P>S.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

What's the scoop on Xin's (and others??) 4 channel feature??
 With only two phones, where does the other 2 channels come in?


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't find the XM5 to be bright or have any bad qualities. Even though with very low hours I find it to sound very good, I don't plan to critically compare it to my other amps which I can use as reference. What you perceive to be "bright" might simply be that you're hearing a better amp with good detail.I have no experience with 0404 so that's just a wild thought._

 

So I've had the chance (and will for the next few days) to compare the XM5 with the Apogee Mini-DAC and the 0404. So far, I've noticed that the XM5 has noticeably higher trebles cf the headphone outs of either of the two DACs. Cymbals and whatnot are very prominent, compared to being a bit recessed on the DACs HP outs. 

 This brightness is definitely in the XM5's amp and not the DAC - I've tested this using the line in on the XM5 from both the other DACs. I'm going to fuddle a lot more tonight and I'll report back. Anyone else here have a chance to compare the XM5 to the HP out of the Apogee or E-MU?


----------



## csroc

I've noticed no brightness either.

 Also my XM5 with the BUF634 chips has no problems driving HD650s without any need for the +10 gain boost. Volume knob is between 8 and 9 o'clock with it hooked up via USB to my laptop which has its volume maxed.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've noticed no brightness either.

 Also my XM5 with the BUF634 chips has no problems driving HD650s without any need for the +10 gain boost. Volume knob is between 8 and 9 o'clock with it hooked up via USB to my laptop which has its volume maxed._

 

With my 325i I'm using 8~9 o'clock with no features used. I like using the +75 Ohm with 325i where I use 12 o'clock as max. With +10 dB using 325i and no +75 Ohm, much past 9 o'clock is deafening.

 I'm really looking forward to using my HD650 but I'll have to wait until next week. 

 Earlier I used the XM5 DAC and used a mini to RCA into my Central Station. using the meters on the CS to see input level, I found that in low gain I needed to have volume on the XM5 at 1 o'clock to match my Pico at max volume in low gain...which is my normal setting.


----------



## csroc

With my ATH-AD900 I use the 75ohm setting and similarly don't turn the knob up past 9 o'clock really. 

 I'm wondering what I'd need to connect to need the +10db switch! The HD650s certainly don't need it.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csroc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my ATH-AD900 I use the 75ohm setting and similarly don't turn the knob up past 9 o'clock really. 

 I'm wondering what I'd need to connect to need the +10db switch! The HD650s certainly don't need it._

 

I'm thinking AKG K240M (600 Ohm) might do the trick...from past experience with that can.


----------



## oogabooga

GreatDane - did you notice any change in SQ when using the 75 Ohm resistor?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking AKG K240M (600 Ohm) might do the trick...from past experience with that can._

 

I'll try those when I return from vacation next week.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GreatDane - did you notice any change in SQ when using the 75 Ohm resistor?_

 

I assume you mean with the 325i?? I have the Etymotic P to S cable so I knew what to expect. The added impedance makes them slightly darker sounding to me...a little bassier with tamed down upper mids/highs it seems.


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What you perceive to be "bright" might simply be that you're hearing a better amp with good detail._

 

True, but it just seems like too much of a brightness jump. I've listened to the same song from my iPhone and my Macbook using headphone jack, 0404, Apogee MiniDac, and XM5 - the treble is very bright (lots of sibliance) in any combination of the above gear where the XM5 is used  Judging by everything I've read on here, and the utter decimation of the trebles I experience using the 75 Ohm switch, I'm inclined to believe my XM5 may be a bit "unique". 

 GreatDane - I'd REALLY like to hear your thoughts on Pico vs XM5 (internal amps) using your Senns, as this is a decision I'll have to make very shortly - I just picked up some HD600s


----------



## GreatDane

Well, I'll have to wait until I can afford a good SE cable for my HD650...trying to find a used stock cable to get me by for now.

 Besides that, I want to give the XM5 at least 200 hours to settle in before putting it in the ring with Pico.

 As for the excessive brightness issue, I just can't hear any with my XM5. I've been listening to my iPod/XM5 combo with ER4P for the past hour trying many different genres. I'm using the 75 Ohm switch for the S conversion. Also using the bass boost at times with electronic and rock. I've always said that the ER4 can dish out big bass when it wants...and this is it!


----------



## oogabooga

So, I played the same song through an E-MU 0404 and the XM5, recorded the output using my MBP's line in, and then listened to both recordings using the E-MU. They sounded similiar - the bright trebles I had heard when listening directly to the XM5 were gone! 

 Actually, listening to the recorded XM5 music through the E-MU sounds similar to listening to the XM5 directly, but using the 75 Ohm switch... so at this point my experience is:

 using MBP out/E-MU out/Apogee MiniDac out: sounds normal
 using XM5 out, no buttons depressed: sounds VERY sibilant - cymbals completely dominate music.
 using XM5 out, 75 Ohm switch depressed (and volume cranked): sounds almost normal - no longer sibilant, but now the mids are moderatley recessed
 recording XM5 out (no buttons depressed) using MBP and replaying using E-MU: sounds normal

 I am SO confused at this point. In all cases I am using TF10s - could the lower (32 Ohm) impedance have some weird anti-synergy with the XM5? It has just the OP134s - no buffer chips installed.


----------



## GreatDane

Wow. I don't have a clue. My XM5 has the BUF634 chips but I don't know if that could be making any difference.

 Maybe our  PD sponsor will have a possible answer.


----------



## oogabooga

Feel like swapping the BUF634's for the copper busbars and trying out some IEMs for me?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Feel like swapping the BUF634's for the copper busbars and trying out some IEMs for me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If I have time I can try that maybe late tonight.


----------



## GreatDane

Here it is.











 I was listening only for any brightness with the busbars in place of the buffers.I only used one song( "Angel" from Sarah McLachlan's Surfacing CD ). I only used 325i.

 My test was short but if there was any difference it was small. Changing to the busbars and reassembling the amp took several minutes...my memory isn't that good and I can't say that there was any change.

 I'm glad that I opted for the Li-ion battery & charger because I wouldn't want to go through that very often. I highly recommend paying the extra for the fast charge option.(edit- just a battery change will be less work!)


----------



## oogabooga

More to throw in the mix - I used the "airline adapter" that came with my TF10s (all XM5 switches off) - the music is now a touch brighter/more detailed than the HP outs of the 0404 USB and my MBP. It sounds good. As a bonus, all the line hiss I used to hear is now gone. 

 I really do think there is something weird going on with my XM5 and low impedance IEMs. I'd asked PD about getting their AD opamp a week ago but I guess they are on holidays. 

 I think (I hope!) I've managed to capture the true sonic signature of the amp. 

 I'm currently A/B/Cing between the XM5, the 0404, and the XM5 with 0404 as DAC - I'll report back tomorrow after I've had a thorough listen.


----------



## oogabooga

GreatDane - just saw your post after I sent my last one. Thanks very much for doing the test! In my experience the difference in brightness is a big one - so I'm thinking more and more that whatever's going on in specific to me. 

 Nice photos BTW - looks like you used bounce flash!


----------



## GreatDane

How many hours do you have on your XM5? I can't remember if you've mentioned that before...if that is even a factor for you.

 I've never used Triple.fi 10's but I didn't hear anything from my ER4P that wasn't expected. It seems like your gear is giving you a hard time and messin' with your head. lol

 My XM5 still has less than 50 hours but I'm not expecting to hear much change as it passes 100 and beyond...if it gets better than this then I won't complain.

 My camera in just a Canon SD600. I used slow speed(80) in macro mode under moderate light.


----------



## oogabooga

I've got at least 70 hours on it - I let it burn in overnight 3x and used it for a week while marking 700 midterms :S 

 Hopefully the HD600's I get on Monday shed more light on the situation... or prove to me that I need more buffering to drive my headphones. 

 Sadly I've not had a chance to hear much gear, so it's difficult for me to establish a reference point for amps. However, finding that I hear such a huge sonic difference just by inserting an airline adapter tells me that something is going on! 

 Wow, that SD600 takes nice photos! It's been so long since I've used a point and shoot I'd forgotten how good they could be!


----------



## A.Mir

Is this tiny amp able to drive the D2000 or the various AT's at a decent level? Is it able to compare with the Pico and the Predator?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *A.Mir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this tiny amp able to drive the D2000 or the various AT's at a decent level? *Is it able to compare with the Pico* and the Predator?_

 

I haven't done any serious comparisons to my Pico yet but based on what I know so far I'll say YES for raw power. I've yet to do any down and dirty SQ comparisons yet.

 My XM5 has the buffer chips. It is very powerful for a 9 volt power supply.


----------



## penguindude

I'll be doing a review for the XM5 in the coming couple of days. First impression is very positive, the little device is highly transparent with a very clean, a bit "digital-like" sound.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be doing a review for the XM5 in the coming couple of days. First impression is very positive, the little device is highly transparent with a very clean, a bit "digital-like" sound._

 

I look forward to reading your review.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *A.Mir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this tiny amp able to drive the D2000 or the various AT's at a decent level? Is it able to compare with the Pico and the Predator?_

 

I would put it among the upper tier of portable headphone amps, along side the Predator, Pico, 2MOVE, TTVJ portable Millett and HR Micro Amp (and maybe the D3 if it weren't for the RFI I get with D3 and iPhone).


----------



## oogabooga

Well, it's all the way at the 3 o'clock setting (no switches enabled) or 1 o'clock with the 10dB switch engaged, but it's driving my HD600s to decent volumes. Bass is not very well controlled on some of my techno tracks with the gain switch off, but I'll report back tomorrow after the BUF634s I ordered arrive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also - my impressions on the XM5's DAC - it's OK but not as good as that of the E-MU 0404 or the Apogee Mini-Dac which I've had the opportunity to test this week. I'm not good with words, but E-MU/Apogee DACs sound a bit "smoother", and have a touch less line hiss when I plug the line out of the other DACs into my XM5 and use my IEMs.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it's all the way at the 3 o'clock setting (no switches enabled) or 1 o'clock with the 10dB switch engaged, but it's driving my HD600s to decent volumes. Bass is not very well controlled on some of my techno tracks with the gain switch off, but I'll report back tomorrow after the BUF634s I ordered arrive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also - my impressions on the XM5's DAC - it's OK but not as good as that of the E-MU 0404 or the Apogee Mini-Dac which I've had the opportunity to test this week. I'm not good with words, but E-MU/Apogee DACs sound a bit "smoother", and have a touch less line hiss when I plug the line out of the other DACs into my XM5 and use my IEMs._

 

With the BUF634 it seems to drive the HD600 as well or better than Pico. I didn't bring those with me to Maui, so I can't listen again till Friday as I work on my review. I brought 3 amps with me on vacation, and so far have not used the Predator or Headsix, but only used the XM5 which sounds great with my ESW10JPN and NE-7M and Westone 3. The DAC seems to be on the level of the Predator and 2MOVE, and a little below the Pico and Mini-DAC or Micro DAC, but I still think it is pretty good vs headphone out of the Macbook or iPod.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oogabooga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ... I'll report back tomorrow after the BUF634s I ordered arrive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You caved! That didn't take long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I stated previously, I've compared with/without buffers but I'm unable to test with HD650. I hope to receive a cable very soon for that.

 Since you have experience with HD600 and no buffers I'm curious about how much the buffer chips help...I don't plan to go through that swap test again.

 I'm itching to put the XM5 DAC up against Pico DAC.


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since you have experience with HD600 and no buffers I'm curious about how much the buffer chips help..._

 

Yeah... but I've only got a few hours experience with the HD600 , so I'm not entirely sure what they are capable of! Here's an example of what I have learned though - trying to play Massive Attack - Karmacoma leads to a "hollowed out bass" sound - the bass is there but not completely when using the XM5. Apogee Mini-Dac's HP out has more oomph.

 I'll do my best to give some opinions when the BUF634s arrive. I also ordered a couple of different opamps to try out - if my stupid ears can tell the difference...


----------



## swanlee

Or any of the buffer or opamp options needed for easily driven IEM's like the Atrio M5's?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or any of the buffer or opamp options needed for easily driven IEM's like the Atrio M5's?_

 

The Atrio spec is:

 impedance 32 ohm
 sensitivity 112 dB @ 30 Hz / 1 mW

 I've never used the Atrio but they should perform very similar to my ER4P. 

 Buffers not needed. Whichever amp chips used would only change the sound signature. I've never thought that easily driven IEMs need an amp but it does often improve overall SQ, mainly opening up the soundstage from my experience.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Atrio spec is:

 impedance 32 ohm
 sensitivity 112 dB @ 30 Hz / 1 mW

 I've never used the Atrio but they should perform very similar to my ER4P. 

 Buffers not needed. Whichever amp chips used would only change the sound signature. I've never thought that easily driven IEMs need an amp but it does often improve overall SQ, mainly opening up the soundstage from my experience._

 

I'm already using a FIIO E5 with my Zune and Atrio's and I like the way an amp sounds especially with Bass boost turned on the E5. So I'm now looking for a higher quality amp and the XM5 has the options I want.

 I'm definitely getting another amp i was just wondering if all this talk of buffer and opamps were really needed by normal IEM's


----------



## oogabooga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or any of the buffer or opamp options needed for easily driven IEM's like the Atrio M5's?_

 

I asked Practical Devices the same question via e-mail - here's the response I got:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Practical Devices* 
_Your TripleFi's have a fairly low impedence; usually low-impedence 'phones benefit the most from chips with higher current capabilities (ie. BUF634 or AD8397), although only those with a fairly fine-tuned ear will appreciate the difference from your stock OPA134's._

 

As I'm getting my BUF634 chips today, I'll report back on the difference.


----------



## oogabooga

I placed two BUF634s in my XM5 and found improved bass with HD600s. Also, the volume knob is now about 3 "hours" back for the same sound level. 

 No change with the sibiliance/treble problems with TF10s. Still not sure what's up with that.

 Also - tried some OPA637s. Didn't work wonderfully - with the 10dB swtich disengaged I got static - had to engage the switch to get music to play. This is to be expected though, as the 637s are known to need a gain of 5 to work, and the XM5's gain is a bit under 5 (until you hit the +10dB switch!). However, the 637-laden XM5 has static issues - touching the case or turning the pot gives staticy badness. I'm stubborn and am going to try again later today... for now I want to enjoy the music!


----------



## penguindude

Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!_

 

Happy New Year's Eve to you too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nicely written.

 I still haven't compared my XM5 DAC to Pico DAC but I think I know what that outcome will be...

 Even though having a DAC in the XM5 is nice, that is probably the feature that I'll use least...so just a bonus for me. My XM5 is meant to stay Velcroe'd to my 120 Classic.

 I still haven't tested the XM5 with my HD650 but from what you've stated they should have good synergy.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!_

 

Nice review how did the Treble and bass boost effect the sound quality especially with both enabled? Any degradation or issues?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!_

 

You guys are killin' me here
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! Now I gotta plan for a new amp
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!

 -HK sends

 P.S. Anyone want to buy two PD XM4s? I need to finance an XM5.


----------



## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review how did the Treble and bass boost effect the sound quality especially with both enabled? Any degradation or issues?_

 


 Ah, forgot to mention those in my review! Like all equalizers, they tend to muffle the sound to a certain degree. But to my ears, both treble and bass boost are very good, giving a slight push towards both ends. It wasn't a night and day difference, but you can definitely tell either ends are emphasized.


----------



## HK_sends

Would you say this would be a nice amp to accompany a laptop on trips for watching movies and listening to music?

 -HK sends


----------



## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you say this would be a nice amp to accompany a laptop on trips for watching movies and listening to music?

 -HK sends_

 

There are many portable amps out there on the market. It all depends on your budget. But yes, the XM5 would be a great option.


----------



## oogabooga

I've found the bass boost to be a bit boomy, but MUCH better than the iTunes EQ. Treble boost is very good, on appropriate tracks. 

 HK_sends - The DAC is better than my laptop's, and with the BUF634 there is power to drive bigger cans (like my HD600s).


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks for the replies.

 I have used practical Devices amps before and while not being extremely high end, I like their sound, ruggedness and portability (and the whole customizing deal).

 Never used a DAC before, but it does seem a decent place to start (and get a good amp in the process).

 Cheers,
 -HK sends


----------



## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the replies.

 I have used practical Devices amps before and while not being extremely high end, I like their sound, ruggedness and portability (and the whole customizing deal).

 Never used a DAC before, but it does seem a decent place to start (and get a good amp in the process).

 Cheers,
 -HK sends_

 

A DAC simply means the soundcard chip - turning digital mp3/wav files to sound you can actually hear. Your laptop has a DAC, iPod/mp3 players all have a DAC. It's the quality of the chip that matters.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A DAC simply means the soundcard chip - turning digital mp3/wav files to sound you can actually hear. Your laptop has a DAC, iPod/mp3 players all have a DAC. It's the quality of the chip that matters._

 

I'm sorry, I should have clarified that I have never used a off-board or separate DAC for audio playback
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.

 -HK sends


----------



## swanlee

Sounds good, treble and bass boost do there job without killing the clarity or removing tons of detail.

 How is the noise floor on the XM5, any audible hiss even with the Treble and Bass Boost options on?

 While using it as an amp is there any glaring deficiency?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!_

 

Teaser of info from my upcoming review - I am back from Maui and taking a day to recover from the travel, then I start work on the review again. I agree with your review in many places - the amp is better than the DAC, just like the Predator, and as an amp it rivals some desktop amps to a point. In my case I think the amp sounds warmer than you thought it did, but I suppose I have only been trying it with warm headphones so far and need to try it with others. I was saying before that the XM5 reminds me of a tube hybrid like my TTVJ portable Millet, like brothers, while the Predator is a cousin. 

 I also think the DAC is on the level of the DAC in the Predator and 2MOVE and it's a little more detailed and spacious than Headstage Lyrix (or Headstage DAC cable). However, using a Micro DAC as DAC or Pico as DAC/Preamp to feed the XM5 does provide the upgrade in sound one expects. Yet the internal DAC is still better than the one built into my Macbook or iMac.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good, treble and bass boost do there job without killing the clarity or removing tons of detail.

 How is the noise floor on the XM5, any audible hiss even with the Treble and Bass Boost options on?

 While using it as an amp is there any glaring deficiency?_

 

The bass and treble boost are much cleaner than using the iPod EQ, and probably on the same level as the iTunes EQ - although sometimes the bass boost is too much and other times just right, depending on the headphone. For example - with Nuforce NE-8 the bass boost is just right, but with HD600 it is a little more than I'd like, and with D2000 or Edition 9 it is ridiculous/useless.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good, treble and bass boost do there job without killing the clarity or removing tons of detail.

 How is the noise floor on the XM5, any audible hiss even with the Treble and Bass Boost options on?

 While using it as an amp is there any glaring deficiency?_

 


 Since the treble boost is a modest +3 dB @ 10 kHz, it is actually useful for my needs. Even with ER4 & 325i which aren't exactly lacking in treble, treble boost is needed for me with some older jazz recording from the 50's for example.

 The bass boost can be too much (+6 dB @ 100 Hz) for many newer recording which tend to have much more bass than older 60's & 70's rock for example...in these cases I do use bass boost with both ER4P/S and 325i.

 I would prefer the bass boost to be slightly lower at around 70 Hz. maybe. 

 Infected Mushroom+bass boost+ER4=
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With ER4P:

 Using the bass and/or treble boost does not introduce any noise above normal results(see below).

 With no source connected, there is no noise until I switch into high gain and then only near the top of the dial. With normal use expect no noise/hiss whatsoever. 

 Mine has the buffer chips.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Or any of the buffer or opamp options needed for easily driven IEM's like the Atrio M5's?_

 

My XM-5 came with the AD8397 chip, as I have AKG K-240S 'phones. After a few months, I askes James about other chips, and he sent me the original OPA134's. 

 I can tell a bit of difference in the top end volume, but the 134's drive my K240's quite nicely. 

 I doubt that I can discern any difference between the monoblock config. of the two 134 chips vs the dual chip 8397. IIRC, my tin ears seem to hear a very subtle sound difference between the two chips, but to be sure, I'd want 2 units with both chips to be sure.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!_

 

Many thanks for that review.. I knew that the XM5 was a good amp, but only had the Microshar 107B to compare it to.

 I see that you tested the 134's with the buffer chips. My XM5 came with the AD8397 chip, and I'm very pleased with it. IIRC, it puts out more current then the buffered 134's, but is a dual chip, so no monoblock, FWIW.

 James sent me a pair of 134's to play with, and my ears have detected a small difference, but I can't really describe it. I'd bet that he's send you an 8397 chip to test if you asked


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you say this would be a nice amp to accompany a laptop on trips for watching movies and listening to music?

 -HK sends_

 

That's one of the reasons that I chose the XM-5. While the DAC isn't perfect, it's way better'n the sound chip in my notebook. Get the AD8397 chip and rechargeable battery option and you'll be set for just about any headphones available.


----------



## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many thanks for that review.. I knew that the XM5 was a good amp, but only had the Microshar 107B to compare it to.

 I see that you tested the 134's with the buffer chips. My XM5 came with the AD8397 chip, and I'm very pleased with it. IIRC, it puts out more current then the buffered 134's, but is a dual chip, so no monoblock, FWIW.

 James sent me a pair of 134's to play with, and my ears have detected a small difference, but I can't really describe it. I'd bet that he's send you an 8397 chip to test if you asked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Indeed, the 8397 was included in the package. I'll test it some time next week.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's one o f the reasons that I chose the XM-5. While the DAC isn't perfect, it's way better'n the sound chip in my notebook. Get the AD8397 chip and rechargeable battery option and you'll be set for just about any headphones available._

 

Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Indeed, the 8397 was included in the package. I'll test it some time next week._

 

Hmmmm...methinks you'll need to remove the BUF634 chips. The 8397 puts out more current then they do, IIRC.

 Please let us know how you feel that it compares to the 134 chip. I can detect a difference, but not describe it. do not have the buffers with the 134's.


----------



## gnostic19

i am looking for a headph amp for home/studio use, not needing for portable stuff. Are there better amps out there for the same price geared more for this usage or not?


----------



## csroc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gnostic19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am looking for a headph amp for home/studio use, not needing for portable stuff. Are there better amps out there for the same price geared more for this usage or not?_

 

dollar for dollar most home units of the same price will be a better performer than a portable.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gnostic19* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am looking for a headph amp for home/studio use, not needing for portable stuff. Are there better amps out there for the same price geared more for this usage or not?_

 

Describe what you mean by home/studio and what you plan to do with the amp, and what headphones please.


----------



## penguindude

Just an update, rolled in the AD8397 opamp, kept the BUF634P buffer, the sound felt like a total upgrade! The harsh treble associated with the OPA134 and HD600 was totally gone. The AD8397 handled treble sibilant much much better than the OPA134. Bass is a touch less, just a tiny touch, but seems more controlled. But lower-mids seem to be more obvious, which makes the sound warmer. Totally enjoyable, totally awesome!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I plan to try the AD8397 dual to singles module, OPA627 and AD743 later this week. I don't have any AD797 anymore, but I do have some NE5534 left over from a Xin SMIII I could try as well. Just need find the time.


----------



## GreatDane

I received a stock cable for my HD650 today and have been testing my XM5 with some bass heavy electronic music with iPod Classic as source. I'm currently using the treble boost with high gain. Very good sound overall but when pushed hard(unsafe volume), I am able to get the amp to clip before the volume is painful. Of course I did this only as a test but it does reveal the limitation of the XM5 with HD650.My volume at this point was around 1 o'clock.

 Switching to my favorite female jazz/pop artists is a joy. Using the treble boost is just right for my taste and it gets me closer to how I listen to my 650 using the Aphex 204. 

 I'm hearing a very nice soundstage with a crisp dynamic _snap_ with brass & percussion...now excuse me while I veg out for a few hours...


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update, rolled in the AD8397 opamp, kept the BUF634P buffer, the sound felt like a total upgrade! The harsh treble associated with the OPA134 and HD600 was totally gone. The AD8397 handled treble sibilant much much better than the OPA134. Bass is a touch less, just a tiny touch, but seems more controlled. But lower-mids seem to be more obvious, which makes the sound warmer. Totally enjoyable, totally awesome!_

 

Interesting !! I thought that the 8397 had greater current output then the BUF634's.

 How's the battery life with those chips??


----------



## zombieDave

I've been keeping my eye on this thread and this page has me a bit confused. According to the PD website, they claim you do not need the separate buffers (BUF634) if you use opamp AD8397 because this particular opamp has a built-in buffer. If you're using _both_ and making the claim that it's a significant upgrade in SQ, it would appear that buffering is just as relevant - or, even more important - as picking the "right" opamp. Is this the case? Don't some of the Xin amps use a ton of buffering?

 I have the BUF634's installed in my XM5 but have not swapped out the stock (OPA134) opamps at all. It would be very cool if this thread could continue with people posting their impressions of the amp's sound sig with different opamps installed. Maybe somebody with several compatible opamps at their disposal could post a chart detailing each opamp's strengths & weaknesses? It would be invaluable to folks like me who would like to upgrade a bit but have limited finances (the AD8397 DoubleCat opamps on sale at the PD website for $40 a pair are financially out of reach right now to me...) I'd really like to pick up a pair of "better" opamps and check out the difference in SQ.

 To stick with the original intention of this thread - *I*, too, *love my PD XM5*. I normally listen to it with the +10dB and x-feed functions "On" through a pair of DT770's (with a 75ohm resistor mod) fed by a custom LOD from my iPod Touch (with "Bass Reducer" enabled - those damn DT770's!!!). IMO, it's a great little transportable rig. 

 Thanks, folks.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zombieDave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...the AD8397 DoubleCat opamps on sale at the PD website for $40..._

 

I see those @ $22.

 I wouldn't mind trying different op amps but I don't have the time or money to spend on what I consider to be minor(not worth it) improvements/changes.

 If there was some major revelation discovered where the amp sound sig was drastically changed to favor the HD650 I would try it...if the cost was not too high...although I don't feel like it needs changing.

 Otherwise, my XM5 sounds very good with HD650 and there's really nothing lacking. The features make this amp work great with every can that I have.


----------



## oogabooga

I tried some OPA227s, but my ears couldn't tell much of a difference. Don't have access to any other opamps.


----------



## zombieDave

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see those @ $22.

 I wouldn't mind trying different op amps but I don't have the time or money to spend on what I consider to be minor(not worth it) improvements/changes.

 Otherwise, my XM5 sounds very good with HD650 and there's really nothing lacking. The features make this amp work great with every can that I have._

 

But you need one for each channel, which equals ~ $40 total.

 If a reasonably-priced set of opamps could give even a slight improvement in SQ, I think it would be worth checking out. Even Tangent, on his website, notes the (sometimes dramatic) difference an opamp can make in the CMoy design. Aren't amps like the XM5 essentially a glorified version of the CMoy? 

 I like mine, as well!


----------



## GreatDane

From PD website:






_AD8397 and busbars installed (AD8397 is a dual-channel chip with integrated 300mA very strong buffering)._


----------



## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zombieDave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been keeping my eye on this thread and this page has me a bit confused. According to the PD website, they claim you do not need the separate buffers (BUF634) if you use opamp AD8397 because this particular opamp has a built-in buffer. If you're using both and making the claim that it's a significant upgrade in SQ, it would appear that buffering is just as relevant - or, even more important - as picking the "right" opamp. Is this the case? Don't some of the Xin amps use a ton of buffering?

 I have the BUF634's installed in my XM5 but have not swapped out the stock (OPA134) opamps at all. It would be very cool if this thread could continue with people posting their impressions of the amp's sound sig with different opamps installed. Maybe somebody with several compatible opamps at their disposal could post a chart detailing each opamp's strengths & weaknesses? It would be invaluable to folks like me who would like to upgrade a bit but have limited finances (the AD8397 DoubleCat opamps on sale at the PD website for $40 a pair are financially out of reach right now to me...) I'd really like to pick up a pair of "better" opamps and check out the difference in SQ.

 To stick with the original intention of this thread - *I*, too, *love my PD XM5*. I normally listen to it with the +10dB and x-feed functions "On" through a pair of DT770's (with a 75ohm resistor mod) fed by a custom LOD from my iPod Touch (with "Bass Reducer" enabled - those damn DT770's!!!). IMO, it's a great little transportable rig. 

 Thanks, folks._

 

There is a subtle difference between AD8397 with BUF634 and no buffers. I'm currently doing a direct A-B comparison. With the buffers, the bass is more pronounced, and the sound is warmer. Without the buffers, the bass leaner, but has the same impact and extension. The sound is also a bit cleaner, but less warm. Your call!


----------



## zombieDave

Thanks Dane & Penguindude. It doesn't look as though spending the extra money will pay off in terms of a substantial upgrade in SQ. Plus, because I use the XM5 with a pair of bass-heavy DT770's, having a bit more bass from the 8397's in the sound sig of this rig is not something I'm looking for at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## wsatia

hello guys! 
 new here and a noob to all these audio stuff.
 I'm interested in getting a XM5 and was reading about it and I'm wondering if anyone could explain what buffering is?

 and just wondering, you guys are using the interconnect that they provide? what's the sound of their interconnect compared to the other ones available? is it more bass centric or increases clarity?


----------



## younglee200

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update, rolled in the AD8397 opamp, kept the BUF634P buffer, the sound felt like a total upgrade! The harsh treble associated with the OPA134 and HD600 was totally gone. The AD8397 handled treble sibilant much much better than the OPA134. Bass is a touch less, just a tiny touch, but seems more controlled. But lower-mids seem to be more obvious, which makes the sound warmer. Totally enjoyable, totally awesome!_

 

Wait, how does that work?

 does that mean I should get the AD8397 for like 22 bucks AND the BUF634P for 45 bucks as well?


----------



## penguindude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, how does that work?

 does that mean I should get the AD8397 for like 22 bucks AND the BUF634P for 45 bucks as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No need for the BUF634P if ure getting the AD8397.


----------



## swanlee

Anymore reviews of this amp coming out? A few members said they were going to post reviews a few weeks ago but I have not seen them.


----------



## dfkt

I wish there was an XM5 version without USB DAC... I really have no need for that, but would like to give the analog section a try.


----------



## oogabooga

HeadphoneAddict added it to his review, and penguindude has one on Compudio Gadget Reviews

 I don't think anyone else promised a full review?


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *younglee200* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait, how does that work?

 does that mean I should get the AD8397 for like 22 bucks AND the BUF634P for 45 bucks as well? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Methinks that James might swap out the 134's for the 8397 if you ask when ordering. He did this for me early last Spring after several e-mail inquiries about the XM-5. May have been an early policy to get his new unit in circulation, but it does no harm to ask, and mention that you read about his amp on Head-Fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Lithium rechargeable battery wis a big plus for me as well!!


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

I've tried two LM-6171 op-amps in mine. Sound volume seems less that the 134's, and definitely less then with the 8397. However, I don't have the BUF634 chips, so they probably would have helped.

 I like the initial sound of them a bit more then I do with the 134's, but my old ears aren't as sharp as most ears here<snif>

 Check out this web site LM6171 - High Speed Low Power Low Distortion Voltage Feedback Amplifier. They offer free samples for a modest shipping fee. They are pin compatible with the 134's. You want two LM-6171BIN chips.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anymore reviews of this amp coming out? A few members said they were going to post reviews a few weeks ago but I have not seen them._

 

My review was posted last weekend in my big USB DAC amp review - it is a very nice amp, and ranks up with my other top tier amps. See my public profile "About me" for a link to the review.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My review was posted last weekend in my big USB DAC amp review - it is a very nice amp, and ranks up with my other top tier amps. See my public profile "About me" for a link to the review._

 

I tried looking through the big USB DAC thread and your "about me" profile looking for the link to the XM5 review and some how I still could not find it. I looked everywhere for his review.

 Anyone have a direct link to the review? 

 TIA.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Review of XM5 is the last one in post #1 (partial) and post #2 (complete):

UPDATED 01/04 REVIEW 12 USB DAC amps - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Review of XM5 is the last one in post #1 (partial) and post #2 (complete):

UPDATED 01/04 REVIEW 12 USB DAC amps - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio_

 


 Thanx sounds like a winner to me. My wife is going to get it for my B-day next month. Looks like the amp portion does well with anything and it has all the options I ever wanted in a portable amp.


----------



## xenochimera

looks nice, might give it a try sometimes.


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From PD website:






AD8397 and busbars installed (AD8397 is a dual-channel chip with integrated 300mA very strong buffering)._

 

That's neat. I want it.


----------



## Sasaki

> Anymore reviews of this amp coming out?

 I 've just post my review on my headfi blog.

Practical Devices XM5 review - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

 Enjoy


----------



## GreatDane

Thanks for that review Sasaki. Great pics!

 Just for fun, some XM5/Pico size pics:


























 ...with iPod Classic:


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Nice pics. Who made your LOD?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics. Who made your LOD?_

 

Thanks...not bad for a $200 camera(2 years ago).

 The LOD is the ALO Bling Bling.


----------



## gorgak

I'm really enjoying my xm5, but man the pico looks good!


----------



## swanlee

So what would be the best option of opamps\buffers for my needs?

 I want a warm, bassy sound but I still want the benefit of the dual mono design? 

 I'm confused as to which combination for the XM5 would do that. I should be ordering mine in the next two weeks.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what would be the best option of opamps\buffers for my needs?

 I want a warm, bassy sound but I still want the benefit of the dual mono design? 

 I'm confused as to which combination for the XM5 would do that. I should be ordering mine in the next two weeks._

 

The stock OP134's with the BUF634 buffers are a good choice. I still plan to try some OPA627 later, which should meet your criteria based on other experience with them.


----------



## morfic

Has anyone tried any other opamps in the XM5?
 I very much enjoyed the AD8620 in the XM4 and am considering getting me 2 AD8610 and 2 adapters, but before i try my soldering skills i would much rather try a few DIP8 opamps, i gave my brain some time today with the OPA134+BUF634 combo before installing the AD8397, even if it would get me sound closer to the AD8620, i would like to take advantage of the customizability and try a few more opamps before crowning my subjective winner.
 Right now i have the before mentioned LM6171 (tangent's notes worry me) in a basket and some OPA227 before adding the much pricier OPA627 i may try a few more lower priced opamps, pushing the OPA627 off to a later purchase....any suggestions? (i want to stay clear of OPA228 or OPA637, they seem trouble for simple drop-ins?)
 Looks like AD843KNZ might be a desktop amp only option, like always plugged in i'd consider it. (see tangent's notes on opamps why i'm not trying it in a portable amp)

 All that said:

 Practical Devices is a great company to deal with, emails are answered quickly and friendly and amps ship quick too.
 I enjoy the DAC in the XM5 quite a bit since my laptop's sound stinks.
 One thing Practical Devices could improve on is to make the DAC an option or sell an XM5 with just the great amp and a XM5+ including the DAC, since i keep seeing people who would buy it if it didn't have the DAC.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Practical Devices is a great company to deal with, emails are answered quickly and friendly and amps ship quick too.
 I enjoy the DAC in the XM5 quite a bit since my laptop's sound stinks.
 One thing Practical Devices could improve on is to make the DAC an option or sell an XM5 with just the great amp and a XM5+ including the DAC, since i keep seeing people who would buy it if it didn't have the DAC._

 

I've had the same great CS from PD. It has been mentioned before and I also agree that PD should make 2 versions. I might have bought an amp only version but now I find myself using the XM5 DAC when I have my Pico mated to my iPod.

 I don't know what the price difference would be between the XM5 & "XM5+" but they might sell a few more amps if that lower cost would put it next to other amps in consideration.

 I have no experience with other opamps.


----------



## gorgak

How noticeable would you say the treble boost is?

 I know it's only a 2.5 dB boost, but I just can't hear any difference.

 The 6 dB bass boost I can hear. Is my xm5 borked?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gorgak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How noticeable would you say the treble boost is?

 I know it's only a 2.5 dB boost, but I just can't hear any difference.

 The 6 dB bass boost I can hear. Is my xm5 borked?_

 

I think your XM5 is functioning normally. From my listening, the treble boost is subtle in most cases.


----------



## Keppel

The pico is plastic, right? I know the XM5 has a metal case.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Keppel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The pico is plastic, right? I know the XM5 has a metal case._

 

Both cases are aluminum AFAIK.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gorgak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How noticeable would you say the treble boost is?

 I know it's only a 2.5 dB boost, but I just can't hear any difference.

 The 6 dB bass boost I can hear. Is my xm5 borked?_

 

I wondered the same, on my phonaks i can barely tell when i use the OPA134 + BUF634, right now i try the AD8397 and i can very clearly hear the difference. Not huge, but there.


----------



## GreatDane

I like the treble boost but I wish the bass boost was 4 dB. @ 60 Hz. instead of 6 dB. @ 100 Hz.


----------



## brotherlen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think your XM5 is functioning normally. From my listening, the treble boost is subtle in most cases._

 

ditto


----------



## gorgak

Thanks for the replies, I might upgrade to the AD8397 one of these days. 

 And I agree, the bass boost is a little much depending on the music.


----------



## Hal Incandenza

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MatthewK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something I don't like about the other amps is that they don't have an easily user-replaceable battery, the XM5 does (9V). Even rechargeable batteries wear out after a while. There's a lot of other features that are nice too. I'd say my only gripe about the specs (this is before actually testing it though) is the DAC, it's a Cirrus-Logic chip and 24/96 would have been better. But they did pack quite a bit into such a small package. It would have been good even without the DAC thrown in._

 

Actually, it looks like the XM5 uses the Texas Instruments PCM2702E, same as the Corda 3Move. 

Practical Devices Corporation

 I was trying to make a decision between those two brands, and the cost and convenience of ordering (in the states) is making me lean toward the XM5.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gorgak* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really enjoying my xm5, but man the pico looks good!_

 

Well, you _could_ be like one of each 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 some of the fellows here and get one of each 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I got back into audio 3-4 years ago, I accumulated 6 turntables (kept 4), 4 receivers (kept 3) 4 cassette decks (2 were "parts units") 2 CD players and 6 pair of speakers (kept 4pr)

 I got the AKG 240s, and a Microshar 107B last year, and, afet MUCH thought, and a bit of boot thrown in by PD 8 months ago, bought the XM-5. I think that I'll take a breather, as I'm lusting after a better set of headphones, but _really_ would like to hear more phones and amps before getting more toys


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The stock OP134's with the BUF634 buffers are a good choice. I still plan to try some OPA627 later, which should meet your criteria based on other experience with them._

 

I wonder how the LM6171's would do in place of the OPA134's ?? They seem to give me a nicer sound then the 134's, but the volume is less with my AKG 240's. Don't have the BUF 634's to try.

 Not being a swifty with the data sheets, I can't see the difference.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

What I have to try later in the XM5 are OPA627, AD743 and NE5534. I gave away all my AD797 over the past 6 months to nice people, so I have none to try. I also have the AD8397 kit for XM5 to try. I've just been so tired and busy I haven't had time to open it up and swap stuff out yet.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how the LM6171's would do in place of the OPA134's ?? They seem to give me a nicer sound then the 134's, but the volume is less with my AKG 240's. Don't have the BUF 634's to try.

 Not being a swifty with the data sheets, I can't see the difference.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

They would be very bright and clear from a first impression.

 I got myself 4 sets to play with while i waited for James to offer me a set of AD8610 (loved the AD8620 on the XM4).

 AD711 has a stranger meager sound.

 NE5534 sounded clear enough to give them a second longer audition, after a few hours ~10-12 with them i find them bright and clear, but nothing "wow".

 Last was the OA227, kind of a "try another OPA before wasting money on a OPA627", and well, the chip is nice enough that i will order the OPA627 after i get the AD8610 set from Practical Devices on their WhiteCaT, and *hopefully* together with a pair of AD8065 (if James is willing to put them up, i asked, now he just needs enough people wanting them i think?).
 How the OPA227 sounds for me to say nice enough? You may have noticed a pattern of "nice and bright" not so with the OPA227, first impression was strong strings, (piano, cello, guitar) but veiled vocals, not sure why, i forced myself to close the amp up and take it to work.
 Got used to the sound but decided to play with BBE on my D2, and sure liked that, after a while of listening i thought it was time to turn off BBE (BBE: 2 and M3B:2 for those of you with a D2), i was baffled when i realized i had fooled myself, the spacious sound did not come from BBE and the bass did not come from M3B, i had long turned it off, so yeah long story short, i enjoy this sound so much that i HAVE TO hear a OPA627 pair, since everyone seems to say they are so much brighter and detailed.
 The phones i used at work are Phonak Audeo PFE, at home i use my AD700, and spacious is not something that would usually come to mind between an IEM and a set of open phones. just in case you wonder what pair i had on their.

 I quick tested all 4 pairs with and without BUF634 and chose to only "long test" combinations of opamps with BUF634 in place.
 The NE5534 may not see a long test after the medium long test was bright and clear but uninspiring, it never fooled me into thinking i had BBE on ;P

 AD711 is out, and if i can make myself let go of the OPA227, the LM6171 sounded like it deserves a long test.

 Just my 78 cents (i never could keep it short and add 2 cents when i get excited)

 Daniel


----------



## a_tumiwa

does xm5 has any imrpovement bass quantity than xm4??


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does xm5 has any imrpovement bass quantity than xm4??_

 

Not out of the box. But i had already sent off the XM4 when the XM5 arrived, so i could never do A-B comparison, plus i sent the XM4 off with the AD8620 inside which seemed to have a much tighter low end than the original OPA2134.

 The feature set of the XM5 was what convinced me and as my OA627 arrived today, i do not regret the decision. (I can also better appreciate the comments of those who like the OPA627, hopefully the AD8610 set gets here by Monday to settle on "the best" opamps for my XM5)


----------



## GreatDane

Do any users of XM5 hear a slight bass boost effect with the crossfeed engaged? It seems to be lower than the 100 Hz. which is the bass boost freq. By slight I mean maybe less than 1 dB. judging by the 6 dB. boost at 100 Hz. feature. I use the crossfeed at minimum setting.I have the BUF634 in my XM5. I hear this with all monitors.

 (edited to reflect a new/lower judgment/guess with crossfeed bass boost effect)


----------



## swanlee

I ordered mine late last week should be here sometime this week. I got the black model with the BUF634P buffers and the fast charger.

 This should complete my portable rig which already sounds great with the Atrio M5's and my Zune30\100Gb.


----------



## HK_sends

My wallet hates me already,
 ...but...can't...resist...must...order... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My wallet hates me already,
 ...but...can't...resist...must...order... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends_

 

Since your wallet hates you already, you must try the XM5 with OPA627 (yay for DIP-8), it was an eye opening experience swapping out the OPA227 and in with the OPA627, but the final word is not spoken, since my set of AD8610 is somewhere between Canada and Texas at this point.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do any users of XM5 hear a slight bass boost effect with the crossfeed engaged? It seems to be lower than the 100 Hz. which is the bass boost freq. By slight I mean maybe only 1 to 2 dB. judging by the 6 dB. boost at 100 Hz. feature. I use the crossfeed at minimum setting.I have the BUF634 in my XM5. I hear this with all monitors._

 

I tried and tried again, i don't hear it, not on my bass anemic AD700 nor on my comparably bass heavy Phonaks. (Harsh to switch from Phonaks to AD700 if i used them hours before putting on the AD700)


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since your wallet hates you already, you must try the XM5 with OPA627 (yay for DIP-8), it was an eye opening experience swapping out the OPA227 and in with the OPA627, but the final word is not spoken, since my set of AD8610 is somewhere between Canada and Texas at this point._

 

I'll wait for the final word... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried and tried again, i don't hear it, not on my bass anemic AD700 nor on my comparably bass heavy Phonaks. (Harsh to switch from Phonaks to AD700 if i used them hours before putting on the AD700)_

 

Thanks for testing it out. Hopefully other XM5 people can do the same.


----------



## EFN

You guys should try AD8065AR. These babies packs some butt kick punch and analytical details at the same time. Much better than my AD8610 which sounded lifeless in contrast.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys should try AD8065AR. These babies packs some butt kick punch and analytical details at the same time. Much better than my AD8610 which sounded lifeless in contrast._

 

I am waiting to see if James adds them to the chiphelp page, i had my eyes on them for a while but would rather buy some from his website all neatly soldered than adapt them myself.

 The waiting helps me actually use my chips long enough to be able to tell which works best. After mostly AD700 listening on the OPA627 over the weekend it's going to be phonaks until the AD8610 get here.


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am waiting to see if James adds them [AD8065] to the chiphelp page, i had my eyes on them for a while but would rather buy some from his website all neatly soldered than adapt them myself._

 

It seems that the AD8065 is on that page, here, already. James seems to have a great deal of different mounted opamps and buffers there, for XM5 and XM4. Neat.

 That's all new, innit?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys should try AD8065AR. These babies packs some butt kick punch and analytical details at the same time. Much better than my AD8610 which sounded lifeless in contrast._

 

Must try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Keppel for that link. So if I buy a pair of these AD8065AR(28USD) I would exchange the OPA134 and leave my BUF634 in place or leave out the buffers and use the busbars?


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys should try AD8065AR. These babies packs some butt kick punch and analytical details at the same time. Much better than my AD8610 which sounded lifeless in contrast._

 

what are the sound characteristics of these different op amps?

 My XM5 is on the way to me and I ordered it with the stock op amps and the BUF634 chips.

 What I'm looking for is a very warm natural spacious sound that is heavy on the bass.

 My IEM's fit the bill in the Atrio M5's to give that but which opamp would further deliver that with the XM5?

 So what are the benefits, differences and sound characteristics for the following opamps?


 AD8610 WhiteCat
 AD8066 WhiteCat
 AD8065 WhiteCat


----------



## darwinshardhat

I must say this credit card sized DAC/AMP is just simply amazing. For the size and price, it really packs a lot of punch. Coming from just having a headphone amp running off my iPod LOD's and headphone out on my old Mac Powerbook, the sound quality upgrade has been just staggering. I just couldn't be sure what was making my sound so muddy until I had another DAC to test but I'm absolutely positive that was the weakest link with my existing computer setup. Now I'm just using a small USB powered HDD with my music collection in ALAC and the XM-5 and I'm in audio bliss. It's not perfection, but I'd say it is at least 200% better than the quality coming out of the internal DAC's in any of my computers or iPods and far more of an improvement than I expected. 

 I too am wondering about these op amp options and whether they are worth extra investment. I look forward to hearing more subjective feedback in this thread


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what are the sound characteristics of these different op amps?

 My XM5 is on the way to me and I ordered it with the stock op amps and the BUF634 chips.

 What I'm looking for is a very warm natural spacious sound that is heavy on the bass.

 My IEM's fit the bill in the Atrio M5's to give that but which opamp would further deliver that with the XM5?

 So what are the benefits, differences and sound characteristics for the following opamps?


 AD8610 WhiteCat
 AD8066 WhiteCat
 AD8065 WhiteCat_

 

AD8066 is the dual channel version of the AD8065, so not an option for you.

 Since the OPA627 seems to have dethroned my previous favorite AD8610 (Based on how it plays low cello notes in my perception while both are very detailed), i would think the AD8065 is a nice choice for you, based on what their reputation compared to the OPA627 and AD8610 is (low freq butt kicking is usually mentioned).
 I will put them on order myself now. Since for my current set of headphones a little more on the low end would be nice.
 The OPA627 often make me think 'spacious' even on my phonaks and have a nice warm tone to it, i find the XM5 to be completely black with the OPA627 compared to the AD8610 where i can hear some noise (don't want to call it hiss either) at full volume and winamp paused.

 You could enjoy the XM5 with the OPA134s for now and let me waste my money on yet another opamp and see if it can dethrone the OPA627 as "well defined low end with clear detail" opamp or not. It's easy to find an opamp that is bass heavy, but vocals/details can suffer. (LM6171)


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the following opamps?_

 

I think all the WhiteCats on that page have their compatible amp listed. (XM4 vs. XM5, which also means dual-channel vs. single channel, respectively) Where there's a picture of two whitecats, it's for the XM5 or any single channel amplifier.


----------



## Azoth

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *penguindude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all, my review of the XM5 is now up! 

 Here's the direct link: *XM5 Review!*

 I found the DAC of the amp to be very competent, but it was still not as good as I'd like, especially driving the HD600. When coupling the XM5's amp with an external dac (emu 0404 usb), i heard some drastic improvement. So i think as a portable amp, the XM5 is very good, but driving phones like the HD600 i still prefer my heavy-weight tube amps!


 PS Happy new years eve!_

 

Great review ! 
 Now I have to purchase one ,probably next month


----------



## Azoth

Cool !
 How do you think the XM5 would fare would GS-1000 ?
 Eventually, I will be saving up for these puppies


----------



## morfic

I think i'm going to hold my horses and listen to the opamps exclusively on the AD700, afterall, i bought an amp for full sized phones and not my easy to drive IEMs.
 And the synergy of LM6171 with AD700 so far is far better than Phonaks on LM6171, i got to give time to each opamp on AD700.
 Going to wait on AD8065 and will much more likely pick up LME49710 in between ($2.xx a piece in DIP-8). Promising chip, despite the price.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, This is all very interesting! I am deciding between an ibasso d10 and this amp (well I am actually quite sure i will get the ibasso for my iriver but I would still like to try the xm5 for my laptop because of the nice customization options).
 Can someone explain to me how this opamp+buffer system works? As far asI udnerstand it is best to have 2 opam sb ecause of the dual mono system, th eopamps amplify the sound and are important for how the sound signature is. The buffers give it more current. But then why canyou use opamps as buffers? I do not really understand this.. I mean you can use bufvfers as buffers, and i suppose you can tuse those as op amps but why can yfou use opamps as buffers....
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## swanlee

Well just got my XM5 today and this things sound great. Took a little more than a week to get from Canada to Atlanta.

 I'm using the stock opamps and the BUF634 buffers.

 Build quality is top notch, volume knob and all buttons are well put together precise and well designed.

 The sound is great and just what I was wanting, very spacious detailed but warm and natural sounding.

 I'm using the Bass and Treble boost with my Gen1 Zune on the acoustic setting and my Atrio M5's and am now approaching the sound quality of my 25,000 Lexicon\Anthony Gallo home system. 

 Obviously it is not quite to that point there but it certainly sound VERY good and is the best portable setup I have ever heard.

 I'm getting all the details, all the bass and all the spacious warm sound I can handle and am not left for anything and no hiss what so ever even cranked up.

 This was definitely the best portable amp for my tastes.


----------



## GreatDane

Congrats swanlee!


 You know what really grinds my gears re the XM5?

 Channel imbalance at lift off volume in low gain...really not that bad and only at sleepy time dB.

 Anyone else experience this?

 I can counter this bad vibe with my love for the knurled, over-sized volume knob...makes for quick & easy use...beats my Pico in this feature category!


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats swanlee!


 You know what really grinds my gears re the XM5?

 Channel imbalance at lift off volume in low gain...really not that bad and only at sleepy time dB.

 Anyone else experience this?

 I can counter this bad vibe with my love for the knurled, over-sized volume knob...makes for quick & easy use...beats my Pico in this feature category!_

 


 Just checked and maybe the left channel is a tad louder at lower volumes on the knob but the volume is so low I'd never actually listen to it that low.

 It's slight if it does exist and I probably would not have noticed it otherwise. Listening at low levels right now as I type this and I REALLY have to try hard to detect if there is a difference in channel loudness it definitely is not obvious.

 Love the way this amp sounds though.


----------



## GreatDane

I believe it is the left channel being higher with my XM5 also(I should know this but would need to confirm). This imbalance is only at this _very_ low volume. Once I move away from this low volume, the balance is dead on. I don't experience this with my Pico. 

 I'll ask you this since you're here...do you hear a slight bass boost when the crossfeed is engaged? I hear a slight bass boost, not anything near the +6 dB with the switch. I can only guess I hear a .5 dB boost...but it is there for me and I actually look for this [size=xx-small]small[/size] bass boost using the crossfeed...btw, I use crossfeed at the minimal setting...80 % of the time.

 Question #2. have you used the DAC, if so how do you like?


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I believe it is the left channel being higher with my XM5 also(I should know this but would need to confirm). This imbalance is only at this very low volume. Once I move away from this low volume, the balance is dead on. I don't experience this with my Pico. 

 I'll ask you this since you're here...do you hear a slight bass boost when the crossfeed is engaged? I hear a slight bass boost, not anything near the +6 dB with the switch. I can only guess I hear a .5 dB boost...but it is there for me and I actually look for this [size=xx-small]small[/size] bass boost using the crossfeed...btw, I use crossfeed at the minimal setting...80 % of the time.

 Question #2. have you used the DAC, if so how do you like?_

 

I have heard a few comments about more than a few portable amps and even full stereo systems that tend to be slightly non balanced at very low levels so it's not at all un heard of.

 I notice a very slight bass boost when Xfeed is enabled but I think that is because of what Xfeed does and not actually a true bass boost. 

 Take any stereo track and reduce the stereo field more towards the center and the bass will be more prominent.

 I have not used it as a dac, I may try but I don't listen to music through my PC so it was really not a feature I was interested in, nice that it's there though.


----------



## GreatDane

I too did not need the DAC feature but I do use it as an alternate from my Pico DAC. 

 I can't disagree with your comments re the crossfeed. I once owned a HeadRoom MicroAmp which has crossfeed and I heard a very noticeable bass boost/added warmth when in use.

 On the other hand, one other portable amp that I've owned also had the crossfeed option and I don't recall much bass boost effect, if any.

 I do know that the XM5 has an *"Active Variable CrossFeed"* which is supposed to be different (better?) than competing designs. I believe that the volume is supposed to remain constant after the crossfeed is engaged...not sure on this. I do know that the claim is that it is the only variable crossfeed.

 There's no doubt that this amp has a few cool tricks.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I too did not need the DAC feature but I do use it as an alternate from my Pico DAC. 

 I can't disagree with your comments re the crossfeed. I once owned a HeadRoom MicroAmp which has crossfeed and I heard a very noticeable bass boost/added warmth when in use.

 On the other hand, one other portable amp that I've owned also had the crossfeed option and I don't recall much bass boost effect, if any.

 I do know that the XM5 has an *"Active Variable CrossFeed"* which is supposed to be different (better?) than competing designs. I believe that the volume is supposed to remain constant after the crossfeed is engaged...not sure on this. I do know that the claim is that it is the only variable crossfeed.

 There's no doubt that this amp has a few cool tricks._

 

Passive indeed drops the volume, which makes A/B comparisons pretty much impossible, since you always fiddle with volume knob up and down, but i admit, if i engaged it on the XM4 and left the adjusted volume alone it sounded about as well as the XM5.
 Active xfeed is supposed to add some delay to the signal instead of just mixing a fraction into either of the opposing channels. I can't say i notice it, but also, i did not have the XM4 and XM5 side by side to say for sure.

 swanlee: you now have two choices, leave the opamp alone and go on listening to music, or picking up a couple different opamps and finding out if you could get a better synergy between amp and phones ;P

 I for one am not done yet, got two more DIP-8 sets coming before i finally add the AD8065s from Practical Devices to the mix.

 I'll have so many to choose from in the end, i could have a library of phones and find the perfect match in opamps ;P If i only had the budget for so many phones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (LCD + Desktop comp are on chopping block already)

 Either way, enjoy, it has made listening to music even more fun, and i agree analog volume control rocks.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Passive indeed drops the volume, which makes A/B comparisons pretty much impossible, since you always fiddle with volume knob up and down, but i admit, if i engaged it on the XM4 and left the adjusted volume alone it sounded about as well as the XM5.
 Active xfeed is supposed to add some delay to the signal instead of just mixing a fraction into either of the opposing channels. I can't say i notice it, but also, i did not have the XM4 and XM5 side by side to say for sure.

 swanlee: you now have two choices, leave the opamp alone and go on listening to music, or picking up a couple different opamps and finding out if you could get a better synergy between amp and phones ;P

 I for one am not done yet, got two more DIP-8 sets coming before i finally add the AD8065s from Practical Devices to the mix.

 I'll have so many to choose from in the end, i could have a library of phones and find the perfect match in opamps ;P If i only had the budget for so many phones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (LCD + Desktop comp are on chopping block already)

 Either way, enjoy, it has made listening to music even more fun, and i agree analog volume control rocks._

 

Ha Ha so funny as I accidentally made a few extra mouse clicks just about 15 mins ago and somehow managed to order a pair of WhiteCat AD8065's for the XM5.

 I'm pretty happy with the synergy right now but I cannot resist the urge of playing with different combinations. Love the fact this portable amp has so many built in features plus you can swap out buffers and op amps at will.

 Great great product.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Passive indeed drops the volume, which makes A/B comparisons pretty much impossible, since you always fiddle with volume knob up and down, but i admit, if i engaged it on the XM4 and left the adjusted volume alone it sounded about as well as the XM5.
 Active xfeed is supposed to add some delay to the signal instead of just mixing a fraction into either of the opposing channels. I can't say i notice it, but also, i did not have the XM4 and XM5 side by side to say for sure.


 I for one am not done yet, got two more DIP-8 sets coming before i finally add the AD8065s from Practical Devices to the mix.

 I'll have so many to choose from in the end..._

 

OK, so the XM5 crossfeed being active is designed to keep the volume constant. Re the delay, I believe this to be a basic part of all designs in addition to the actual cross-feeding:

_HeadRoom amplifiers cure the problem by allowing you to cross-feed a little of the left and right channels across to each other through a short time delay using the crossfeed switch._- *HeadRoom*

_The CORDA headphone amplifiers can electronically simulate this process and, with appropriate attenuation and delay, add some of the right audio signal to the left channel and vice -versa._ -*Meier Audio*


 ...and I think the 8065 is calling me. I just need to actually order them.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, so the XM5 crossfeed being active is designed to keep the volume constant. Re the delay, I believe this to be a basic part of all designs in addition to the actual cross-feeding:

HeadRoom amplifiers cure the problem by allowing you to cross-feed a little of the left and right channels across to each other through a short time delay using the crossfeed switch.- *HeadRoom*

The CORDA headphone amplifiers can electronically simulate this process and, with appropriate attenuation and delay, add some of the right audio signal to the left channel and vice -versa. -*Meier Audio*


 ...and I think the 8065 is calling me. I just need to actually order them._

 

I was googling for linkwitz crossfeed since one article referenced it and explained active vs passive.
 But i finally read tangent's link and maybe it now makes sense that greatdane hears a bass boost in the xfeed:

Modified Linkwitz Crossfeed PCB

HeadWize - Project: An Acoustic Simulator for Headphone Amplifiers by Chu Moy

HeadWize - Project: An Enhanced-Bass Natural Crossfeed Filter by Jan Meier

 seems quite common? wonder why i still don't notice it.

 Interestingly, not sure where the link is that explained active vs passive, i tink it's a matter of components used, but memory is not strong enough to repeat what i said, in case i am not remembering correctly. Either way, i know it works on the XM5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (You will notice a lot graphs showing delays on these curcuits too)


----------



## darwinshardhat

sorry to go off topic from opamp rolling but this is my first battery powered headphone amp and/or DAC and I'm still running on my first battery charge but it seems the DAC performance has diminished with the battery power. It's not warning me the power is low but it seemed the DAC quality was noticeably lower once power dropped below 8V. Not bad at all but I hear a little bit of distortion during more complex and full sounding passages, especially if there is a lot of low frequency sound. Is that just typical with these battery powered devices, a weakness of the XM-5, or maybe a problem unique to mine?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry to go off topic from opamp rolling but this is my first battery powered headphone amp and/or DAC and I'm still running on my first battery charge but it seems the DAC performance has diminished with the battery power. It's not warning me the power is low but it seemed the DAC quality was noticeably lower once power dropped below 8V. Not bad at all but I hear a little bit of distortion during more complex and full sounding passages, especially if there is a lot of low frequency sound. Is that just typical with these battery powered devices, a weakness of the XM-5, or maybe a problem unique to mine?_

 

I haven't noticed that - I will have to try testing it out soon and see what happens as voltage drops. Do you only notice when listen through the DAC, or also listening to the amp with an analog input like from an iPod?


----------



## darwinshardhat

I've only been using it on my old Dell computer at work through the USB input, but I can use an LOD on my ipod tonight and on my home Mac Powerbook and see if I can replicate or isolate the source. Great idea, thanks =)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've only been using it on my old Dell computer at work through the USB input, but I can use an LOD on my ipod tonight and on my home Mac Powerbook and see if I can replicate or isolate the source. Great idea, thanks =)_

 

I wonder if you are getting issues with noisy power via your USB as a possibility.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats swanlee!


 You know what really grinds my gears re the XM5?

 Channel imbalance at lift off volume in low gain...really not that bad and only at sleepy time dB.

 Anyone else experience this?

 I can counter this bad vibe with my love for the knurled, over-sized volume knob...makes for quick & easy use...beats my Pico in this feature category!_

 

Did you check the note about this in the troubleshooting section of the XM5 manual? any of that helping?


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder if you are getting issues with noisy power via your USB as a possibility._

 

Listen to the DAC with 13Ohm phones to get an idea, luckily it's pitch black with 32Ohm phones, but with 13Ohm phones (yeah outside their spec'ed range) it's a party!


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interestingly, not sure where the link is that explained active vs passive,_

 

Here is a thread on headfi that explains the active vs. passive crossfeed on XM5, which set _me_ straight on the subject. Only XM5 has an actual active crossfeed. If you read the thread, James (aka MaxAmplitude the Practical Devices guy) posted, explaining the difference.

 I think that active crossfeeds are overlooked (read: cheaped-out on!) with most portables.


----------



## GreatDane

Thanks Keppel, I knew that I read that explanation from James somewhere here.

 Crossfeed done right!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha Ha so funny as I accidentally made a few extra mouse clicks just about 15 mins ago and somehow managed to order a pair of WhiteCat AD8065's for the XM5._

 

Please post your impressions compared to the stock chips.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please post your impressions compared to the stock chips._

 

Will do when it arrives, probably at least a week to get here


----------



## darwinshardhat

Thanks for the suggestions on troubleshooting my 'dirty' sound issue. I tried a number of different configurations and came to the conclusion the distortion I was hearing had nothing to do with the voltage level of the XM-5 batteries. I believe with the master volume on my Dell computer set at one notch down from the top (around 80%) it was introducing distortion. The sound is much cleaner at one notch lower (around 65%) with the volume turned up higher on the XM-5. I also heard distortion from my iPod LOD, but it sounded different and I am pretty sure its the not so great DAC in the iPod revealing itself in all of its splendor on my K702's.

 The DAC in the XM-5 still sounds like it gets a bit overwhelmed with certain complex or bass heavy passages but it's much better after making adjustments at the source. I'd say 90% of the problem was resolved. My music seems to sound a bit better playing from Foobar over iTunes too. I think I'll hear a marked improvement in these little SQ nuances as it burns in. I only have around 40 hours on it now. 

 For a few days I thought I might want to send it back and pick up a Pico or Predator but I'm thinking that was just user error blaming the XM-5. It's amazing considering the quality you get at this price.


----------



## audiophonicshz

The xm5 looks like quite the little champ. I've got one on the way, but I was wondering if it can drive 600ohm beyers. I've got a pair of 250 880s that I love and Im already thinking about upgrading to the 600 ohm version through beyer de. So does anyone have any experience driving 600 ohm phones through the xm5? I got the version with the BUF634, I hoping that will cut it.


----------



## morfic

If anyone is curious about OPA627 sound but hates the idea of forking over $18 a piece for them, grab yourselves a couple LME49710 ($2.65 a piece) and enjoy.
 The only difference i can discern is *maybe* a hint of more detail on some vocals with the LME49710.
 Good enough to sit on my hands and not click on the AD8065 for a while...

 audiophonicshz: If you ever find anything out about the DT880/600 on XM5, let me know.
 DT880, K702 and HD600 are all on my want list, if i could do 600 instead of 250 on the DT880 before i have a desktop amp, it would be most interesting.
 Even though i think i will build me a PPAV2 considering i got enough OPAs to keep those sockets filled......


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'll have to go back over my notes with my AKG K240M 600 ohm and see what I wrote.


----------



## nsx_23

Anybody here using the XM5 with IE8s?


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please post your impressions compared to the stock chips._

 

I just got the AD8065's and had a quick listen after I installed them. I only listened to two song so far but I can hear a definite upgrade.

 Bass is stronger, sound stage is wider, it sounds smoother without any sacrifice in details, left and right separation is more precise.

 With the stock amp I did notice some slight distortion at times with these new opamps I did not notice any distortion.

 I will post additional impressions tonight or tomorrow when I get more time to listen.

 But really quick, the improvement was well worth the 28$ from the practical devices website.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got the AD8065's and had a quick listen after I installed them. I only listened to two song so far but I can hear a definite upgrade.

 Bass is stronger, sound stage is wider, it sounds smoother without any sacrifice in details, left and right separation is more precise.

 With the stock amp I did notice some slight distortion at times with these new opamps I did not notice any distortion.

 I will post additional impressions tonight or tomorrow when I get more time to listen.

 But really quick, the improvement was well worth the 28$ from the practical devices website._

 

...SOLD! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks...you just cost me $28 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks a lot! Really. 

 I'll post my thoughts when my 8065's arrive.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got the AD8065's and had a quick listen after I installed them. I only listened to two song so far but I can hear a definite upgrade.

 Bass is stronger, sound stage is wider, it sounds smoother without any sacrifice in details, left and right separation is more precise.

 With the stock amp I did notice some slight distortion at times with these new opamps I did not notice any distortion.

 I will post additional impressions tonight or tomorrow when I get more time to listen.

 But really quick, the improvement was well worth the 28$ from the practical devices website._

 

Is this with or without the BUF634 in the amp?


----------



## GreatDane

He has the buffers so I'm guessing that he kept them in.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this with or without the BUF634 in the amp?_

 

It is with the BUF634's


----------



## GreatDane

I'm $32 lighter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now to wait a week...to be continued.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ha Ha so funny as I accidentally made a few extra mouse clicks just about 15 mins ago and somehow managed to order a pair of WhiteCat AD8065's for the XM5.

 I'm pretty happy with the synergy right now but I cannot resist the urge of playing with different combinations. Love the fact this portable amp has so many built in features plus you can swap out buffers and op amps at will.

 Great great product._

 

IIRC, the BUF634's have a different pinout then other buffers. Single opamps usually have the same pinout, so you're OK here. Many of the different opamps have a low current output , so keeping the BUF634's would be beneficial if you have a phone that needs power.


----------



## Willie2

Setting here with my newly arrived xm5 with the ad8397, hooked up to my toshiba into dt-150's. Bela Fleck sounds great!!!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Willie2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Setting here with my newly arrived xm5 with the ad8397, hooked up to my toshiba into dt-150's. Bela Fleck sounds great!!!_

 

Nice! I'm currently enjoying a Andy Narell CD "The Passage" (steel pan) with XM5/DAC & HD 650.


----------



## Willie2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice! I'm currently enjoying a Andy Narell CD "The Passage" (steel pan) with XM5/DAC & HD 650.




_

 

"Tales from the Acoustic Planet" here. Ripped at 128 but compared to listening with just the Toshiba it still sounds great!


----------



## swanlee

After listening for a few hours with the AD8065's my first impressions were pretty dead on. These opamps are freakin SMOOTH!!! that is the best way to describe them.

 The stock opamps in comparison were pretty harsh and actually distorted at times. I just tried to ignore the distortion as it wasn't to bad but the stock opamps definitely distorted and clipped during really complex musical sections.

 These do not distort or clip at any point and basically take the most stuff complex you can throw at it and presents ever details in it's right place with little strain.

 To me pretty much sounds like a completely different amp now, which I guess it kind of is seeing as the guts have been upgraded.

 Listening fatigue is now at ZERO, no more harsh highs or distortion, the sound is so smooth yet detailed it's really hard to turn it off. Bass is more detailed, punchier and of course smoother.

 Practical Devices should probably just tack on 30$ to the price and sell them with these in them default I can't imagine choosing the stock opamps over the AD8065's in any scenario.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After listening for a few hours with the AD8065's my first impressions were pretty dead on. These opamps are freakin SMOOTH!!! that is the best way to describe them.

 The stock opamps in comparison were pretty harsh and actually distorted at times. I just tried to ignore the distortion as it wasn't to bad but the stock opamps definitely distorted and clipped during really complex musical sections.

 These do not distort or clip at any point and basically take the most stuff complex you can throw at it and presents ever details in it's right place with little strain.

 To me pretty much sounds like a completely different amp now, which I guess it kind of is seeing as the guts have been upgraded.

 Listening fatigue is now at ZERO, no more harsh highs or distortion, the sound is so smooth yet detailed it's really hard to turn it off. Bass is more detailed, punchier and of course smoother.

 Practical Devices should probably just tack on 30$ to the price and sell them with these in them default I can't imagine choosing the stock opamps over the AD8065's in any scenario._

 

I ordered mine an hour and a half ago...


----------



## GreatDane

Thanks for making me want them even more now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...I only have an entire week for mine to arrive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am able to make my XM5 distort if I really crank it with HD 650. I have already found out that my Pico is smoother than XM5 overall. With HD 650 I don't mind this brighter sound and I often use the treble boost which is subtle compared to what I do with my Aphex 204 processor.

 I was using my XM5 paired with my 120 Classic for HD 650 but when I got my Phonaks I compared XM5 to Pico...no contest for mids, Pico does voice beautiful and treble is smooooth baby!


----------



## swanlee

I think the XM5 will compete well with your Pico after going with the AD8065's, voices are really nice now and treble is good without being harsh.
 I can't make the XM5 distort anymore at all.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll have to go back over my notes with my AKG K240M 600 ohm and see what I wrote._

 

Can't find anything about using the K240M with the XM5, so I'll still have to try that sometime.


----------



## darwinshardhat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the XM5 will compete well with your Pico after going with the AD8065's, voices are really nice now and treble is good without being harsh.
 I can't make the XM5 distort anymore at all._

 

swanlee do you have the BUF634's? I definitely want to try out the 8065's.. just wondering if the buffer chips are mandatory for optimal sound. I am finding with the stock configuration I keep the gain boost on to get the most range out of my K702's. Despite being fairly low resistance the bass really rolls off with low current. If it makes the most sense I'll drop in all four chips at once.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_swanlee do you have the BUF634's? I definitely want to try out the 8065's.. just wondering if the buffer chips are mandatory for optimal sound. I am finding with the stock configuration I keep the gain boost on to get the most range out of my K702's. Despite being fairly low resistance the bass really rolls off with low current. If it makes the most sense I'll drop in all four chips at once._

 

Yea I'm using the BUF634's at the same time as the 8065's.


----------



## audiophonicshz

morfic: might be a little while before I get the 600ohm 880's, I'd like to get my hands on an hd650, seems like they are being driven well by the xm5s!

 An update, its been a week or so and I still haven't gotten my xm5, gosh the wait is tough. Im interested about the AD8065's. Are they better than the OPA627's? Does this combination (8065+BUF634) make it better/on par with the pico and D10, in the opinion of the experts here? Larry hopefully you get to find out soon. BTW, very insightful review over on the portable amp thread Larry!


----------



## GreatDane

I'll let you know how XM5 with BUF634 compares with Pico after I get my 8065's...don't have a D10.

 James has shipped the goods...I bet Larry gets his first. Colorado is closer than Virginia.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Thanks, I will report on the 8065 when I get them - I liked the stock sound too much to roll opamps, but after hearing good things about the 8065 and hearing the 8066 in the iBasso D10 I decided to go for it.


----------



## tadpole

I am very happy with my XM5 that arrived a few days ago! Many Beatles recordings sound much better with the crossfeed turned on and I like that the level of crossfeed can be tweaked. The USB DAC works well with my PC and seems as good as my ipod's line out when I A/B between them using the input button. I got the amp in preparation for a headphone upgrade that will arrive soon.

 The posts in this thread and HeadphoneAddict's USB DAC amp review thread were very helpful in the decision making process. Geez, now I hope I can resist the temptation to start rolling op amps ... but if everyone else is doing it ... help! It may be wise to stop reading this stuff now


----------



## nsx_23

^ You should never have come here without some wallet damage preparation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and Welcome. You made a good choice with the XM5 from reading what everyone else is saying. Now I'm getting the itch to try one...

 Anyone compared extensively with a mini3 or Corda XXS?


----------



## Willie2

I have had my xm5 for several days now. When I first listened to it most of the selections sounded great, but some piano and some female singers showed a good bit of distortion. I must say I thought that "burning in" of solid state equipment was a bunch of hooey. After about 20 hours the same musical selections show much less distortion and the way it is going it might clear up entirely. So at least for me it provides evidence that more time on solid state equipment does make a difference. 
 I have the ad8397 amp in my xm5 and am now wondering about the 8065 chips with the buffers. Oh well, more ways to spend money!


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Willie2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had my xm5 for several days now. When I first listened to it most of the selections sounded great, but some piano and some female singers showed a good bit of distortion. I must say I thought that "burning in" of solid state equipment was a bunch of hooey. After about 20 hours the same musical selections show much less distortion and the way it is going it might clear up entirely. So at least for me it provides evidence that more time on solid state equipment does make a difference. 
 I have the ad8397 amp in my xm5 and am now wondering about the 8065 chips with the buffers. Oh well, more ways to spend money!_

 

Yea I also got some distortion with my XM5 using the stock opamps with buffers. So the buffers alone will not eliminate the distortion. The 8065 chips did completely cure the distortion issues for me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I also got some distortion with my XM5 using the stock opamps with buffers. So the buffers alone will not eliminate the distortion. The 8065 chips did completely cure the distortion issues for me._

 

Did you pull the buffers or leave them in when you switched to the 8065?

 -HK sends

 EDIT: Sorry, I missed your post above about leaving them in...


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 audiophonicshz: If you ever find anything out about the DT880/600 on XM5, let me know.
 DT880, K702 and HD600 are all on my want list, if i could do 600 instead of 250 on the DT880 before i have a desktop amp, it would be most interesting.
 Even though i think i will build me a PPAV2 considering i got enough OPAs to keep those sockets filled......_

 

Why not drop a note to James and ask if his XM-5 will drive them...esp. with the BUF634s or AD8397???


----------



## darwinshardhat

any one else received their 8065's yet? I have a feeling we will all have them soon enough


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any one else received their 8065's yet? I have a feeling we will all have them soon enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Mine arrived yesterday but I haven't installed them yet.


----------



## ryuzoh

How about AD843KN??
 That has so huge soundstage...(but also giving huge POP
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## darwinshardhat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine arrived yesterday but I haven't installed them yet._

 

cool! is there a logical way to understand how these different op amps compare? Just looking at the list I would never have thought to try the 8065. I would have just naively assumed the 8610 was better because it was a higher number and higher price.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cool! is there a logical way to understand how these different op amps compare? Just looking at the list I would never have thought to try the 8065. I would have just naively assumed the 8610 was better because it was a higher number and higher price._

 

Yea same here I would have ordered the 8610 if I had not seen a post by someone who had both and said the 8065 blew it away. After a week still very very happy with the 8065's in my XM5. not a hint of distortion anywhere to be found.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got the AD8065's and had a quick listen after I installed them. I only listened to two song so far but I can hear a definite upgrade.

*Bass is stronger, sound stage is wider, it sounds smoother without any sacrifice in details, left and right separation is more precise.*

 With the stock amp I did notice some slight distortion at times with these new opamps I did not notice any distortion.

 I will post additional impressions tonight or tomorrow when I get more time to listen.

 But really quick, the improvement was well worth the 28$ from the practical devices website._

 

I tried the AD8065 with BUF634 tonight. What swanlee said about, "Bass is stronger, sound stage is wider, it sounds smoother without any sacrifice in details, left and right separation is more precise." is about right. 

 However, the improvements are more subtle than they sound on paper. The first improvement I noticed was the extra space and refinement or smoother sound, without losing detail. I went back to stock opamps and then back to the new ones, and that was when I noticed the bass was closer to the 3MOVE and more powerful.

 Now I am going to have to spend more time with the XM5 and 3MOVE comparing them more over the next couple of days.

 ALSO, I tried the AD8397 with bypassed buffers and it was nice but not as good with IEM as with the HD600. I decided that wasn't for me. I also tried the AD743 and they sound is good but not better than the 8065, and the AD743 will clip sooner than the 8065 with the HD600 and loud music. I decided to stay with the AD8065.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_cool! is there a logical way to understand how these different op amps compare? Just looking at the list I would never have thought to try the 8065. I would have just naively assumed the 8610 was better because it was a higher number and higher price._

 

Price does not tell much, from what i read about the AD8065 i wanted it pretty bad, then a friend talked about the LME49710, and i am so happy with it, i don't feel like dropping more on yet another chip that i might just store next to the AD8610 and OPA627 that all sound great in their way, but at the end, i always pop the LME49710 back in. So the AD8065 is on the backburner for now. At their $2.65 a piece i paid almost more for shipping than the LME49710 had it been the only item in the order


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Price does not tell much, from what i read about the AD8065 i wanted it pretty bad, then a friend talked about the LME49710, and i am so happy with it, i don't feel like dropping more on yet another chip that i might just store next to the AD8610 and OPA627 that all sound great in their way, but at the end, i always pop the LME49710 back in. So the AD8065 is on the backburner for now. At their $2.65 a piece i paid almost more for shipping than the LME49710 had it been the only item in the order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So where did you get the LME49710's? and did they come ready to put in the XM5 or did you have to solder them to a tiny pcb board to fit the XM5?


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So where did you get the LME49710's? and did they come ready to put in the XM5 or did you have to solder them to a tiny pcb board to fit the XM5?_

 

I bought them at digikey.com just like the AD711, OPA227, OPA627, LM6171 (LM6171 gives me headaches, or at least makes me irritable after a while), they all come in DIP-8 form which means they look just like your BUF634 and OPA134.
 The legs are still angled out, lay one side against your desk, and tilt the body up until the legs on that side are perpenticular to the body, repeat for the other side, ready to drop into the sockets.

 you can pretty much google for any opamp talk on other forums and then check on digikey if they have them in DIP-8, mind you the A versions are enough if there are A and B of a chip, the B does not improve on any specs that would affect audio applications.

Notes on Audio Op-Amps might be of interest

 P.S. the LME49710 to me is like a OPA627 with a *hint* clearer vocals, if you compare prices, you see why this one wins by a mile


----------



## GreatDane

I'm still waiting for my 8065. Larry got his 4 days ago and we ordered the same day. What's up with that? I was hoping to have the weekend to compare. Bummer.


----------



## morfic

Good thing is it comes via usps, sp you still have a chance to hear it tomorrow.


----------



## darwinshardhat

i feel a sudden and irresistable urge to jump on this AD8065/BUF634P bandwagon


----------



## morfic

grab the lme49710 and the buf634p and the urges will subside


----------



## darwinshardhat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_grab the lme49710 and the buf634p and the urges will subside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

i just checked digikey for the BUF634P and it says out of stock. Do you know any reliable vendor that carries both? I'm totally up for trying the LME after hearing your feedback


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I am really liking the XM5 with these AD8065/BUF634 in it. I am thinking it moved the amp up a notch. I am now using it with my iMod instead of the Pico. Wondering if maybe they should ship this way from now on. Hmmm...


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am really liking the XM5 with these AD8065/BUF634 in it. I am thinking it moved the amp up a notch. I am now using it with my iMod *instead of the Pico*. Wondering if maybe they should ship this way from now on. Hmmm..._

 

Stop it! You're killing me ova here.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stop it! You're killing me ova here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Oops, I was trying to quote you when I said that too.


----------



## morfic

No idea, i got my BUF634 with the XM5.

 HeadphoneAddict: I think LME49710 would be a low cost option over OPA134 to upgrade w/o increasing cost.


----------



## tadpole

I am enjoying some new U2 music through my new HD650 using the XM5's USB DAC ... yeah it's my birthday!

 My 4th gen ipod 20GB sounds very flat when driving the HD650 with headphone out, the need for a headphone amp is obvious. My 2nd gen ipod shuffle does a pretty good job driving the HD650 with headphone out but the improvement the XM5 creates can be noticed with careful listening, especially with the punch of deep bass. The XM5 is also a noticeable improvement over the old sound-blaster live audio card in my PC, mainly in the bass area. So, it's good I studied up on the posts here at head-fi and got the XM5 in preparation for the HD650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think my HD485 sounds very good no matter what I drive it with. I really don't need the XM5 if I was only going to use the HD485, except maybe for the crossfeed. I was curious to hear what a higher end headphone sounds like and that's why the XM5 and HD650 are here. I think they are both keepers! 

 My XM5 has the OPA134 + BUF634. I got lucky and found the BUF634 at Newark but they are out of stock now. It's not an easy chip to find. I'm still resisting the AD8065, I do have limits on how fast I can absorb new toys ... or do I?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tadpole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am enjoying some new U2 music through my new HD650 using the XM5's USB DAC ... yeah it's my birthday!

 My 4th gen ipod 20GB sounds very flat when driving the HD650 with headphone out, the need for a headphone amp is obvious. My 2nd gen ipod shuffle does a pretty good job driving the HD650 with headphone out but the improvement the XM5 creates can be noticed with careful listening, especially with the punch of deep bass. The XM5 is also a noticeable improvement over the old sound-blaster live audio card in my PC, mainly in the bass area. So, it's good I studied up on the posts here at head-fi and got the XM5 in preparation for the HD650 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think my HD485 sounds very good no matter what I drive it with. I really don't need the XM5 if I was only going to use the HD485, except maybe for the crossfeed. I was curious to hear what a higher end headphone sounds like and that's why the XM5 and HD650 are here. I think they are both keepers! 

 My XM5 has the OPA134 + BUF634. I got lucky and found the BUF634 at Newark but they are out of stock now. It's not an easy chip to find. I'm still resisting the AD8065, I do have limits on how fast I can absorb new toys ... or do I? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The AD8065 improve performance by maybe 5% or a little more, so one could be perfectly happy with the stock opamps, But for those of us looking to squeeze every little bit out of it the AD8065 are a welcome addition.


----------



## tadpole

HeadphoneAddict, should I wait until you start your "REVIEW 13 Op-Amps for the XM5" thread before I decide which one to buy?


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8065 improve performance by maybe 5% or a little more, so one could be perfectly happy with the stock opamps, But for those of us looking to squeeze every little bit out of it the AD8065 are a welcome addition._

 

I think the AD8065 improves performance more than that just by the elimination of distortion. The Stock opamps clip and distort even during normal volume and it was starting to get quite distracting for me.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tadpole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, should I wait until you start your "REVIEW 13 Op-Amps for the XM5" thread before I decide which one to buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No. I've tried the stock OP134, AD743, AD8397 and AD8065 and picked the 8065 as my favorite. For me the AD743 distort more easily than the stock opamps. AD8397 have loads of power but sound best with my HD600 and not my IEM.


----------



## tadpole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No. I've tried the stock OP134, AD743, AD8397 and AD8065 and picked the 8065 as my favorite. For me the AD743 distort more easily than the stock opamps. AD8397 have loads of power but sound best with my HD600 and not my IEM._

 

With the op-amps you tested, do you notice any distortion with your HD600 or is this more of a problem with IEMs which probably have much lower impedance? Is switching in the extra 75 ohms something that is supposed to help with lower impedance IEMs/headphones in some way?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tadpole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the op-amps you tested, do you notice any distortion with your HD600 or is this more of a problem with IEMs which probably have much lower impedance? Is switching in the extra 75 ohms something that is supposed to help with lower impedance IEMs/headphones in some way?_

 

I only get distortion with HD600 at very high volume levels, but not with all opamps, the AD743 were the most likely to clip, and the AD8397 and AD8065 are the least likely to clip at high volumes. Lower impedance phones are quite difficult to drive to distortion before permanent hearing damage.

 The 75 ohm may help some low impedance phones but not all. My 50+ ohm ES3X don't like it and don't sound right with it on. It's supposed to be like a P-to-S adapter for Etymotic ER4P to act/sound like ER4S.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am really liking the XM5 with these AD8065/BUF634 in it. I am thinking it moved the amp up a notch. I am now using it with my iMod instead of the Pico. Wondering if maybe they should ship this way from now on. Hmmm..._

 

That's what I'm thinking to, The extra price is worth it and it really improves this amp to another class while not increasing the price all that much. 

 They should offer this setup as default and let you strip it away if you HAD to save a few bucks now.


----------



## GreatDane

...well look what finally showed up after 2 weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




--->
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









 ...getting ready to do some pre-swap listening then pop in the 8065.


----------



## GreatDane

I still want to do a comparison to Pico with the BUF634 & AD8065 but that will have to wait.

 I first used my Phonaks and did notice a smoother sound as the most noticeable difference. I didn't notice any increase in bass but I'm not saying it isn't there. I've mostly listened to my favorite female vocalists for the past 3 hours so that of course is no test for bass or max available power. I switched to HD 650 and have been listening for over an hour and continue to notice a smoother, sweeter sound with very nice detail. I do use the treble boost & 10 dB. gain with HD 650.

 I don't plan to roll back to stock op-amps to further compare but I am convinced that the AD8065 is a worthwhile cost for this amp.

 This is mostly Phonak related but I have been trying the 75 Ohm feature with the PFE for music that has forward mids or when I want to listen at high volumes. I noticed this as a "tweak" a couple weeks ago but yesterday realized this was very useful when listening to several Hayley Westenra tracks where her voice is very prominent and somewhat _peaky_ at high volumes which was very much reduced with +75 Ohms & + 10 dB enabled.


----------



## a_tumiwa

does xm5 good paired with dt770/250 or dt880???


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *a_tumiwa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does xm5 good paired with dt770/250 or dt880???_

 

I was curious about that, too, and I may upgrade tp the DT880's one day.
 I talked to James at PD about it, and decided to get the AD8397 chip, but the BUF634 and your choice of driver chip may do as well.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

For HD600 the AD8397 with busbars in the buffer socket is a good combo. 

 But with all my IEM I like the stock OPA134/BUF634 or better the AD8065/BUF634 as they are smoother with IEM and can still drive the big phones well (but with just a little less power than AD8397).


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tadpole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, should I wait until you start your "REVIEW 13 Op-Amps for the XM5" thread before I decide which one to buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That would be an excellent thread topic. Please make that idea a reality.


----------



## morfic

It can't be a reality unless we agree on which 13 headphones he has to audition all 13 opamps on.
 I switched to closed headphones and my former LME49710 favorites with Audio-Technica AD700, do not make me happy with Denon AH-D1001, on those it's a toss up between the sparkle of the AD8610 and the darker yet detailed OPA627.

 Since i also run the XM5 through a tripath amp to drive my speakers, i favor the OPA627 right now, since it works for both the Denons and the speakers, while the AD8610 is fine with the Denons, it is reaching "bright" with the speakers.

 So 13 opamps on 13 headphones at the very least.


----------



## dfkt

What, only 169 possible combinations?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I have posted and picked my opamps, and shared it here - that is all.

 (I did do something like a 9 amp 9 IEM synergy review with 81 ways to screw it up).


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the AD8065 improves performance more than that just by the elimination of distortion. The Stock opamps clip and distort even during normal volume and it was starting to get quite distracting for me._

 

Hmmmm...my XM-5 came with the AD 8397 chip, and I also tried the OPA134's and my present LM6171's. I've not noticed any clipping or distortion with any, using my AKG 240S headphones and an assortment of low cost earbuds, but my ears have lost that golden tinge many years ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All three chips were subject to a burn in of at least 24 hrs. Perhaps the 134's needed more, as I prefer the sound of the other two over it. One day I'll try some of the other chips, and maybe the BUF634's if I can find then at a reasonable price. 
 Oneday I'll spring for a better set of phones, or a good set of IEM's or buds.


----------



## tadpole

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Notes on Audio Op-Amps might be of interest_

 

I think the link morfic provided has some very good opamp info.

 I noticed some interesting headphone/IEM impedance, voltage & current info here: headb.com: Support
 The maximum voltage swing numbers (Vp-p) for many headphones/IEMs are shown as measured by C&C Studio lab. For example, they show the max voltage swing for the HD650 as 6.0Vp-p (or 2.12Vrms). 1Vrms = (1.414 * 2)Vp-p

 I think this data might help match headphone/IEM characteristics to opamp characteristics. I'm using it to compare the OPA134 and AD8065 when driving high impedance headphones. The author of the opamp notes says in the AD8065 section "As you can see from the clipping numbers, the chip is running rail-to-rail in the 330 Ω test: 2Vrms is 5.656V peak-to-peak. You can't get better than that." This is an experiment where the power supply voltage is dropped until the opamp starts to clip, in this case it could be dropped as low as 5.7 volts before clipping occurred. The author reports the OPA134 starts to clip when the voltage drops below 8.4 volts in the same 330 Ω test. This experiment, where the headphone receives 2Vrms, would be driving the HD650 close to the maximum voltage swing number reported by C&C Studio lab, which I think would be very loud.

 Yup, noodling with numbers is a poor substitute for the 169 combination "golden ear" report we're wishing for


----------



## audiophonicshz

I finally got my XM5 after some waiting and I can say that it was worth the wait. The build quality left a bit to be desired, especially for the price, but I guess thats the case with most portable amps. I am speaking about the internals, as I immediately opened it up to check out the opamps buffers. Also the way everything fit together was a bit simplistic.

 The sound is however, the main reason I chose it and it did deliver, in spades. Bass was tight and clean, sound stage much wider than my old extigy. All the features are great and not gimmicky. I really do like the crossfeed, as it helps alot with some older music, that separate instruments completely between channels. It really does help, though the pot doesnt seem very sensitive.

 I love how well it works with the dt 880s that I have, though at this point I'm not very sure whether the distortion that I am hearing at higher volumes is from the xm5, with the opa134 opamps or the beyers, the treble is definitely brite, siblance is under control but present. I'm getting the 8065s to see if it can control the distortions and hopefully tone down the siblance. Overall I am happy with the sound, and Im sure everything will even out with some more burn in. One thing I've noticed is that it definitely beats the headphone out on my onkyo receiver, amp wise at least. The headamps in receivers are most definitely after thoughts, sad really, so for anyone like me that thought receivers do movies justice through headphones, well, no.

 Oh and one more note, I have sennheiser cx500s plugged in, though, I tend to think that the XM5 just outpaces it, coming from the recabled 880s that I have there is just so much that the XM5, beyer combination reveals in the source, I have high bitrate mp3s but exclusively test with flacs. Lol I guess the sennheisers arent very good. My wallet's running scared.


----------



## GreatDane

audiophonicshz,

 I'm still happy with my XM5 and the 8065 was a boost in SQ. I hope your 880's agree with the 8065, from my experience they might reduce sibilance and give a smoother sound.

 Are your comments based on using the DAC?


----------



## audiophonicshz

Thanks GreatDane, I hope I get the chips faster than the XM5, took a month! Yes I play flacs off my laptop and use the DAC. I realize the dac isnt the best, but it is better than my extigy. I will do more tests with my receiver as the source, running an optical cable from my computer to the receiver. It uses the BB 1796 dac so that should be a step up. I do have a question, when I use the headphone out on my receiver to the input on the XM5, wouldn't the headamp on the receiver affect the sound going to the XM5? Is this a good setup or would it be flawed?

 What stand alone dac would everyone recommend? I've read many of the threads on the dac forum, I'm looking at the zero dac, as its pretty inexpensive, but I don't mind putting up the money for a Benchmark DAC1. Just don't know if the zero, from ebay, would be of low build quality.


----------



## GreatDane

If you're using the DAC in the receiver, use a line-out(RCA) instead of the HP out. You would need a stereo RCA to 1/8" TRS cable of course.

 I don't have any recommendations for DACs. I'm content using my Pico DAC for my HP rig. For listening to my Denon/Rotel/B&W speaker system I use an Apple Airport Express with computer as source using an optical cable to send the digital signal from the Airport to my receiver's DAC.


----------



## audiophonicshz

I tried out using the pre outs from my receiver, but I can't find a way to shut off my speakers so I guess its pointless. So I just use the headphone jack, its not bad. Reason I bring this topic up is that I use a WD TV and I use that now to listen to flacs. 

 One more note to everyone, I'm having great success with Sony 888s with bass boost and 75ohm on the XM5. Quite amazing.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiophonicshz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried out using the pre outs from my receiver, but I can't find a way to shut off my speakers so I guess its pointless. So I just use the headphone jack, its not bad. Reason I bring this topic up is that I use a WD TV and I use that now to listen to flacs. 

 One more note to everyone, I'm having great success with Sony 888s with bass boost and 75ohm on the XM5. Quite amazing._

 

What is the Onkyo model? Strange that it doesn't have a button to switch speakers...A & B ?? 

 Even with no speaker switch you should be able to still use a line-level out(tape/VCR,etc) and just turn the speaker/main volume down to zero and still have that line-level output.

 Simple yes?


----------



## Keppel

How do different XM5 opamps affect the crossfeed? I'm interested to know if there are adverse effects...


----------



## morfic

Never noticed any difference in how crossfeed works with different opamps.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Never noticed any difference in how crossfeed works with different opamps._

 

x2

 I don't think it should, or could effect the crossfeed performance.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

[QUOTE=audiophonicshz; The build quality left a bit to be desired, especially for the price, but I guess thats the case with most portable amps. I am speaking about the internals, as I immediately opened it up to check out the opamps buffers. Also the way everything fit together was a bit simplistic.<<

 Simple is GOOD !! Makes life, and changing OpAmps easier!!


 >>I love how well it works with the dt 880s that I have<<

 I hope to get a pair one day...let us know how they sound once you get the 8065's burned in.

 Have you tried any of the other Sennheiser CX models??


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Never noticed any difference in how crossfeed works with different opamps._

 

*Rock.* That's the way it oughta be.

 I'm now officially obsessed with the very idea of crossfeed.


----------



## Keppel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiophonicshz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[...]I immediately opened it up to check out the opamps buffers. Also the way everything fit together was a bit simplistic._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simple is GOOD !! Makes life, and changing OpAmps easier!!_

 

When I opened my XM5, it was dead easy. When I reassembled it, it was dead easy. I'd have to agree with Harv regarding simplicity. I'm a very simple person. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I didn't open it to change anything, just to look at it. I may open mine again to look at it. I don't really understand what I'm looking at, but it looks really cool.)

 They throw in the allen key for opening the thing too... mind you, the screws could almost be thumb screws.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Keppel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I opened my XM5, it was dead easy. When I reassembled it, it was dead easy. I'd have to agree with Harv regarding simplicity. I'm a very simple person. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I didn't open it to change anything, just to look at it. I may open mine again to look at it. I don't really understand what I'm looking at, but it looks really cool.)

 They throw in the allen key for opening the thing too... mind you, the screws could almost be thumb screws._

 

Glad that you like simplicity 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I bought mine in July, and have enjoyed it very much. Only other thing that I can compare it to is a Microshar 107B that I bought a bit over a year ago. 

 Once you get it burned in and more familiar, you can join us in swapping out op-amps.


----------



## darwinshardhat

I finally gave in and ordered the buffer chips and 8065's. My XM-5 should be hitting the next level in less than a week.

 Many thanks to the guinea pigs for all the first hand feedback on the different options : )


----------



## darwinshardhat

The AD8065's and BUF134's arrived Friday, 8 days after placing my order. The XM-5 came apart very easily, the swap was a piece of cake with the assistance of some needle nose plyers and everything fit back together perfectly. I wouldn't say its like a whole new product but the better opamps and buffer chips give it more of everything that was lacking. With my K702's in the bone-stock configuration I was happiest most of the time with the +10dB, Bass, and Treble gains engaged, but the sound was colored and a little lacking in realistic and precise details. Now that I have the chip slots packed with upgrades I don't have any boosts engaged and the volume knob is in just about the same position and the SPL is about equal. The sound is both cleaner and more precise, with total dynamic range extending further at the low and high ends of the frequency spectrum. Cymbals, percussion, and acoustic instruments sound more life-like, and the lower bass frequencies lack the slight distortion they had with the boosts on. 

 When I get a chance I will pump line level audio into the XM-5 from my VALAB DAC to see how much of a difference that makes over using the XM-5's internal PCM2702 for D/A conversion. Time to dig up my ever-handy 1/8" to Stereo RCA adapter cable.


----------



## GreatDane

Oh no! Needle nose...did you lose the hex key(aka: allen wrench)...or was that just for the chips?

 So was the cost worth it? I'm glad I bought the 8065's. I'm currently enjoying my XM5 with HD 650 which I actually have been preferring over my Pico for these. I use the treble boost with HD 650. The overall SQ and great features with the XM5 will allow it to remain a valuable amp for my needs.


----------



## darwinshardhat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh no! Needle nose...did you lose the hex key(aka: allen wrench)...or was that just for the chips?

 So was the cost worth it? I'm glad I bought the 8065's. I'm currently enjoying my XM5 with HD 650 which I actually have been preferring over my Pico for these. I use the treble boost with HD 650. The overall SQ and great features with the XM5 will allow it to remain a valuable amp for my needs._

 

It was really the buffer chips that were the harder pill to swallow at $46. I just knew before I placed the order that it wouldn't be long before I was looking for a better solution for my portable/office setup. It just didn't sound like the right match for my main headphones. I thought I'd try out the chip upgrades before buying a Pico or Predator or whatever is the next latest and greatest portable. 

 I'm very happy with it. I would say it was about a 50% increase in performance which is pretty huge. The only downside is a went through a battery charge in about 15 hours since putting the chips in. I'm currently using it plugged into AC power and it still sounds really good so that may be the way to go for daily use.

 p.s. the needlenose pliers were just used to pull the original chips out of their sockets lol.


----------



## Willie2

Anyone interested in an xm5 should take a look at practicaldevices.com. That is the same setup I have and I am more than satisified.


----------



## nsx_23

Can anyone compare the XM5 to the T4?


----------



## morfic

I had a chance to listen to the XM5 + HD600 combo before i shipped off my XM5 (didn't use it enough, and have another source).
 I was happy to see (ok hear) how well the XM5 drove the HD600. I could not resist running a few opamp changes and not really surprising, the LME49710 came up as the most enjoyable again. Not that i find the OPA627 or AD8610 a bad choice or the OPA134/NE5534 horrible. It's just when i use the LME49710 i always find myself telling people i "enjoy the music".
 When i use any of the other opamps, i end up talking about the opamps.

 Should try a pair of LME49710, it'll be the best $9+shipping you will ever spend.

 All opamps were used with the BUF634 in place.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone compare the XM5 to the T4?_

 

What aspects? Driving what?


----------



## nsx_23

Sennheiser IE8, Ultrasone Pro 900. 

 Just traded my T4 for an XM5.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The XM5 will be better all around.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The XM5 will be better all around._

 

Yes, lots of features to play with and the USB DAC too if that helps. With the extra features it's very versatile. Comparing the two isn't fair unless using just IEMs although I have used HD 650 with the T4 and they sounded much better than just my 6G HP out. With the TI BUF634 & AD8065 in my XM5 it drives my HD 650 nicely in high gain even with skull crushing bass heavy electronic music. Only when pushing it way too loud do I realize that it lacks true power to drive them...ultimate soundstage and fine details aside compared to my Woo 3.


----------



## nsx_23

Yep, I realized that the T4 wasn't getting much use since if I was going to carry around a small amp it was usually the FiiO E5 that went with me, so I decided to try the XM5 instead since it was the amp I was originally intending to purchase near the start of my head-fi journey until somebody offered me a Corda XXS which I couldn't refuse for the price. 

 I have a feeling the one I just bought is completely stock, so what op-amps samples should I order?

 Also, how is the sound of the XM5 compared to that of the T4 (ignoring DAC section for the time being)?


----------



## GreatDane

I'm not big into opamp rolling so I took the recs from others about the 8065, no regrets though because it helped to make it sound smoother at higher volumes...remember mine has the buffers too. The T4 has a generally warmer sound from what I recall from when my XM5 was stock.


----------



## nsx_23

The amount of features in the XM5 is mind-boggling. Reading the website, I couldn't believe how much was packed into it.

 How big and heavy is the amplifier?


----------



## Ricey20

Hey Dane,
 How does the XM5 compare to the P-51?


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amount of features in the XM5 is mind-boggling. Reading the website, I couldn't believe how much was packed into it.

 How big and heavy is the amplifier?_

 

I don't have a digital scale but it is very light actually I think, with the Li-ion 9 volt inside.

 With Pico:


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Dane,
 How does the XM5 compare to the P-51?_

 

SQ wise, the P-51 has that nice midrange and smoothness that wins me over but sheer power is a win for XM5. I did compare the two last night and again I find the P-51 to be lacking enough power to drive HD 650 to satisfying volumes,especially with bass heavy music. P-51 in medium gain begins to "max out" at around 3 o'clock and I want more. XM5 in low gain has more power,and then in high gain it gets me very close to what I want. I do think that the P-51 & HD 650 has very good synergy...until pushed hard.

 I want a smallish portable amp to pair with my 6G inside Yo-Tank and now I'm considering selling the P-51 to move over to SR-71A...?? still undecided. I would probably still keep the XM5 for DAC use and because it's so versatile...and the crossfeed which I need for a lot of the early jazz I listen to.


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a feeling the one I just bought is completely stock, so what op-amps samples should I order?_

 

LME49710 is most enjoyable. And grab a set of BUF634 from somewhere if your headphones need a lot of current.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *darwinshardhat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was really the buffer chips that were the harder pill to swallow at $46. I just knew before I placed the order that it wouldn't be long before I was looking for a better solution for my portable/office setup._

 

Sorry I couldn't catch you earlier, but DigiKey sells them at a little over $6 apiece (that's the BUF634P). I still think the WhiteCat AD8065s from Practical Devices aren't a bad deal, though.

 Regards,
 -HK sends


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I couldn't catch you earlier, but DigiKey sells them at a little over $6 apiece (that's the BUF634P). I still think the WhiteCat AD8065s from Practical Devices aren't a bad deal, though.

 Regards,
 -HK sends_

 

So that's $9 for the opamps anf $12 for the buffers and it drives a lot of headphones very nicely and sounds real well, glad i didn't pay $46 for my BUF634P as i admitedly missed they were $6 at digikey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Order them together to be hit with $3-$5 shipping only once, USPS Priority that is. No reason to think about it twice.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LME49710 is most enjoyable._

 

I haven't tried those yet. I guess one more on my shopping list won't hurt.

 -HK sends


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't tried those yet. I guess one more on my shopping list won't hurt.

 -HK sends_

 

If you ever tried LM4562 in an amp using dual channel opamps, you know their sound, LM4562 is the same as LME49720 from before the marketing related renaming.
 LME49710 is only the single channel version which apparently never had a pre LME name, or i never found one mentioned.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *morfic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you ever tried LM4562 in an amp using dual channel opamps, you know their sound, LM4562 is the same as LME49720 from before the marketing related renaming.
 LME49710 is only the single channel version which apparently never had a pre LME name, or i never found one mentioned._

 

No, I haven't tried the LM4562. I'm still pretty much a n00b to opamp rolling. I follow the threads and if something looks interesting, I'll give it a shot.

 So many options...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -HK sends


----------



## nsx_23

I have the LM4562s in the amp section of my Zero. They sound fantastic there.


----------



## nsx_23

Does anyone know what size allen key the XM5 needs?

 None of mine seem to fit.......

 Oh, and which BUF634 version should I get? http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/buf634.html


----------



## morfic

BUF634P in "DIP-8" and i say that w/o looking at the TI link. digikey.com has them for $6.something
 PD's $46 must be from a time when they were harder to source.....since all else their prices are much more reasonable.

 2.5 or 3mm, it;s metric iirc.


----------



## nsx_23

Farnelle seems to have 2 types: http://au.farnell.com/jsp/search/bro...questid=229621

 So should I use the LM4562 I have lying around in the headphone amp and the BUF634P in the buffer section? How does the LM play with the BF chip?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Farnelle seems to have 2 types: Browse for Products | Farnell Australia

 So should I use the LM4562 I have lying around in the headphone amp and the BUF634P in the buffer section? How does the LM play with the BF chip?_

 

The LM4562 will not plug into it since it is a dual channel opamp. You will need to use a pair of LM49710 (the single channel version of the LM49720 which is an upgrade to the LM4562).


----------



## morfic

Right, the LME49710 to match the single channel opamps that go in the XM5.
 I only likened your LM4562 to the LME49710 since LME49720 is the dual version of my favorite chip, and LM4562 is the same chip as LME49720, the name was already published before National created the LME line of which the LM4562 is the first chip.
 I am repeating only what you can read elsewhere many times over.


----------



## nsx_23

Thanks for that. New to this whole op-amp rolling thing, so yeah....

 The XM5 is sounding great. I love all the various features I can play with to get it to match with certain players, and it sounds much better than the T4 I traded it for.


----------



## nsx_23

Right, finally received the LM49710s today. 

 What do I need to put into the buffer slot? (I'm noob at op-amp rolling, so I'm not familiar with combos).


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, finally received the LM49710s today. 

*What do I need to put into the buffer slot?* (I'm noob at op-amp rolling, so I'm not familiar with combos)._

 

Either the copper bypass bars, or BUD634 chips. I don't have directions for the copper bypass bars, but you should already have those in the buffers if you didn't opt for the BUF634 chips.


----------



## nsx_23

Righto. The problem is that I bought my unit 2nd hand, so I wasn't sure on the config. Also, none of my allen keys seem to fit....


----------



## morfic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Righto. The problem is that I bought my unit 2nd hand, so I wasn't sure on the config. Also, none of my allen keys seem to fit...._

 

2.5mm or 3mm should be the size, seems rushing to the post office and then finding the allen wrench that came with the amp still on the desk is a common problem.....


----------



## nsx_23

Nah, I have a full metric set (not in the US), and none of them fit the XM5's screws...


----------



## morfic

I measured .108" which is actually between 2.5 and 3mm, which turns out to be 7/64.
 I would have sworn it's metric even if waterboarded. Just to show how wrong i was.


----------



## nsx_23

I fired off an email to the guys at Prac. Devices. Hopefully they can send one out to me.


----------



## softwight

I just got done reading this whole thread...

 I currently own the xm4 and have been going insane reading this. I'm only driving some hd595s but that bass boost totally saved me from buying another set of cans. After reading everything here i'm dying to get the xm5 but instead am trying the 8620 and 8066 for the xm4 first. i've been running stock for about a month now so at least 50-60 hours of use. 

 I know this is an xm5 thread, but i'll still post my thoughts on the two chips once I get some solid time on both of them.


----------



## morfic

I found my XM4 with AD8620 amazing, unfortunately i didn't know the LME49720 chip at the time, so i probably missed out on trying the best chip, at $4.5X it's worth a try.
 I never listened to the LT1364, but people seem to love it, one of those non audio chips that are liked in an audio application.
 If you try the LT1364 or not, i strongly suggest you try the LME49720, if for nothing else than just because it lets me listen to music longer than other opamps. (Not battery length, more "Let me tear my headphones off my ears" tired)


----------



## softwight

I found a site that seems to sell them here: LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier 
 I was looking at the LME49720NA and it looks like the same chip. Will I need to get adapters for it to fit in the xm4 slots though?


----------



## nsx_23

Anyone here have a spare allen key for the XM5 they don't mind giving me? Went all around the city today and I either had to buy a whole set for a ridiculous amount of money or none of them fitted.....


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone here have a spare allen key for the XM5 they don't mind giving me? Went all around the city today and I either had to buy a whole set for a ridiculous amount of money or none of them fitted....._

 

I have a big can of them from old sets in my shop, probably at least one that fits,I'd have to look, ...it might take a while to get to you...like 2 weeks.


----------



## nsx_23

So, after extensive use of the XM5, I'd say its at least as good as my Corda XXS and blows the iBasso T4 out of the water. 

 I love how I can tweak the sound to suit a particular source, and overall the XM5 just has such a nicer balance and soundstage. The vocals are much sweeter, rounded and smoother than the T4 (Which I found to be a bit harsh at times), and the bass is just right. Even with the bass boost enabled, it wasn't terribly bloaty and distorted, which is something I rarely come across since almost all amps I've tried with bass boost often just wrekc the sound completely. The XM5 and IE8 go well together, and even the Pro 900s didn't sound too bad.

 I'd say the DAC section of the XM5 could use even more refinmenet though. Diana Krall still occasionally sounds a bit muddled, but is a small complaint. 

 Can't wait till James from PD sends me an allen key so I can see what op-amps are in there (I bought this 2nd hand) and swap in some BUF634 and LM opamps.


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, after extensive use of the XM5, I'd say its at least as good as my Corda XXS and blows the iBasso T4 out of the water. 

 I love how I can tweak the sound to suit a particular source, and overall the XM5 just has such a nicer balance and soundstage. The vocals are much sweeter, rounded and smoother than the T4 (Which I found to be a bit harsh at times), and the bass is just right. Even with the bass boost enabled, it wasn't terribly bloaty and distorted, which is something I rarely come across since almost all amps I've tried with bass boost often just wrekc the sound completely. The XM5 and IE8 go well together, and even the Pro 900s didn't sound too bad.

 I'd say the DAC section of the XM5 could use even more refinmenet though. Diana Krall still occasionally sounds a bit muddled, but is a small complaint. 

 Can't wait till James from PD sends me an allen key so I can see what op-amps are in there (I bought this 2nd hand) and swap in some BUF634 and LM opamps._

 

I love my XM5 but I have a question for those that use it as a DAC, if the amp section sounds a lot better than the DAC section why not just use the headphone out of your pc and run it through the amp section instead of using the DAC feature through USB?

 Just curious on this I do not use the XM5 as a dac.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love my XM5 but I have a question for those that use it as a DAC, if the amp section sounds a lot better than the DAC section why not just use the headphone out of your pc and run it through the amp section instead of using the DAC feature through USB?

 Just curious on this I do not use the XM5 as a dac._

 

I've been using the XM5 DAC because I sold my Pico amp/DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but plan to buy a Pico DAC. The XM5 DAC is decent imo and surely better than my laptop headphone out...I would never even consider amping that.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The XM5 DAC with Burr Brown Japan PCM2702 (like the 3MOVE) is better than most PC headphone out jacks. It is pretty good, but just a little behind the DAC in the Pico, Micro DAC, D10 or Duet. So, it isn't worth amping most PC or laptop headphone out (or even my Macbook heapdhone out) when this DAC is better than the average PC DAC.


----------



## nsx_23

Right, finally got an allen key to swap in the LM49710 op-amps, and my what a difference they made. The XM5 now sounds much better, with more richness to the sound. 

 Does anyone know if its possible to get BUF634 samples? $14 a pop from Farnelle isn't cheap...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right, finally got an allen key to swap in the LM49710 op-amps, and my what a difference they made. The XM5 now sounds much better, with more richness to the sound. 

 Does anyone know if its possible to get BUF634 samples? $14 a pop from Farnelle isn't cheap..._

 

Try just under $7 a pop from Digi-Key.

 -HK sends

 EDIT: Sorry, just noticed your info. The $7 is USD; don't know what that works out to in AUS...then shipping...


----------



## nsx_23

Yeah, can't really find many places selling the BUF634...


----------



## lhamp

Just installed white cat ad8065 op amps. A definite and not subtle upgrade. Everything is more open, music is softer and more, well, musical. Will report more after additional listening ( and when I get to a computer and not this tiny iPhone keyboard).


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD8065 improve performance by maybe 5% or a little more._

 

With all due respect, I'm a little surprised by this response. To my ears the AD8065's are a HUGE upgrade. The stage opens up. Separation is more precise. Bass is more powerful. But more than anything else is the quality of the sound. Swanlee used the word "smooth", and I've got to agree. With the new opamps, all instruments are velvety smooth.... it really sounds to me as if I'm listening to a tube amp. As I mentioned above, everything is far more "musical".

 Since I've been bitten by this headphone/IEM bug, I've purchased a pair of westone 3's, the XM5, um56 custom tips, and just recently um3x's... obviously dropping lots of dough every step of the way. But I honestly have to say, this $28 upgrade has provided me more instant, impactful gratification than anything else I've done.... I literally said "wow" out loud when I first heard the upgraded amp.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With all due respect, I'm a little surprised by this response. To my ears the AD8065's are a HUGE upgrade. The stage opens up. Separation is more precise. Bass is more powerful. But more than anything else is the quality of the sound. Swanlee used the word "smooth", and I've got to agree. With the new opamps, all instruments are velvety smooth.... it really sounds to me as if I'm listening to a tube amp. As I mentioned above, everything is far more "musical".

 Since I've been bitten by this headphone/IEM bug, I've purchased a pair of westone 3's, the XM5, um56 custom tips, and just recently um3x's... obviously dropping lots of dough every step of the way. But I honestly have to say, this $28 upgrade has provided me more instant, impactful gratification than anything else I've done.... I literally said "wow" out loud when I first heard the upgraded amp._

 

Yeah, but if you look at things on a scale of 0-10, in portable amps a 5% improvement moves it from a 9.0 to a 9.5/10. (I am not saying it was a 9/10 before and a 9.5/10 after, but rather just giving an example). If you think it is like 50% better then it jumps off the scale and beats anything ever made. I HATE putting a percentage on improvements for this reason.

 However, if you look at my actual description of the improvements, we are hearing the same thing.


----------



## lhamp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, but if you look at things on a scale of 0-10, in portable amps a 5% improvement moves it from a 9.0 to a 9.5/10. (I am not saying it was a 9/10 before and a 9.5/10 after, but rather just giving an example). If you think it is like 50% better then it jumps off the scale and beats anything ever made. I HATE putting a percentage on improvements for this reason.

 However, if you look at my actual description of the improvements, we are hearing the same thing._

 

understood. curious to see what you think when you get the um3x's... they seem to benefit even more from the upgrade than the 3's.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lhamp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_understood. curious to see what you think when you get the um3x's... they seem to benefit even more from the upgrade than the 3's._

 

What benefits the most is my Freq Show 3-driver customs, which only sound good to me with the XM5 and the 75 ohm switch activated. Those IEM are not so great with everything else.


----------



## penguin121

The AD8065s I ordered finally arrived today. After a bit of listening, I have to agree with everyone saying that these are a definite improvement over the stock OPA134. The biggest difference I notice so far is that the bass is cleaner and has a bit more punch.

 On a side note, has anyone tried the XM5 with Ultrasone Pro 900s? I have a set on the way and am curious how the combo will work.


----------



## audiophonicshz

Thoroughly enjoying my XM5 with the 634 buffers and Whitecat 8065. I've been hearing a lot about the LME49710. Are they better than the 8065s? Has anyone heard both? How are they different? I'm going to pair it with UMX3s so I have renewed interest!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiophonicshz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thoroughly enjoying my XM5 with the 634 buffers and Whitecat 8065. I've been hearing a lot about the LME49710. Are they better than the 8065s? Has anyone heard both? How are they different? I'm going to pair it with UMX3s so I have renewed interest!_

 

I've been too happy with the 634 and 8065 to want to try anything else in mine.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiophonicshz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thoroughly enjoying my XM5 with the 634 buffers and Whitecat 8065. I've been hearing a lot about the LME49710. Are they better than the 8065s? Has anyone heard both? How are they different? I'm going to pair it with UMX3s so I have renewed interest!_

 

LME49710 are about EUR 10 on eBay... so why not simply try them for yourself?


----------



## swanlee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been too happy with the 634 and 8065 to want to try anything else in mine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Same here, this amp now is smooth as butter with the 634 and 8065


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same here, this amp now is smooth as butter with the 634 and 8065_

 

Yah, it works great with my iMod so I keep the two paired for when I need it. I especially like the sleep timer so I can travel with it and fall asleep with music and not worry about a dead battery the next day.


----------



## audiophonicshz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LME49710 are about EUR 10 on eBay... so why not simply try them for yourself?_

 

Fair enough, I'm on digikey right now, probably pick up a nice pair of BUFs to go along with it, 46 for 2 BUFs was steep! I'll let everyone know how they compare when I get them in!


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The XM5 DAC with Burr Brown Japan PCM2702 (like the 3MOVE) is better than most PC headphone out jacks. It is pretty good, but just a little behind the DAC in the Pico, Micro DAC, D10 or Duet. So, it isn't worth amping most PC or laptop headphone out (or even my Macbook heapdhone out) when this DAC is better than the average PC DAC._

 

I wonder if the 2704 DAC is an improvement??


----------



## mark2410

having read through i wondered if any one knew of a way to reduce the gain on this because oh i can see a small slip of the volume dial and then i go deaf


----------



## penguin121

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark2410* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_having read through i wondered if any one knew of a way to reduce the gain on this because oh i can see a small slip of the volume dial and then i go deaf_

 

You could try the 75 Ohm output switch. Other than that I don't think there is much else you can do besides be careful with the volume knob.


----------



## mark2410

i have tried that but on some things (not tried everything yet) the sound changes unacceptably so

 any opamp changes that might lower the gain?


----------



## mark2410

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tadpole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, should I wait until you start your "REVIEW 13 Op-Amps for the XM5" thread before I decide which one to buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

fingers crossed that thread title becomes a reality


----------



## talan7

Could a stock XM5 drive a DT770 80/250 ohm or a HD650 to good listening levels? I'm looking at one of these as my next phones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tadpole* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, should I wait until you start your "REVIEW 13 Op-Amps for the XM5" thread before I decide which one to buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark2410* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_fingers crossed that thread title becomes a reality_

 

I already reported on 4 opamp combos and like the AD8065/BUF634.


----------



## mark2410

hpa its what you get for writing up kick ass monster post such as your 400 different amp review and comparison thread

 write something so very useful and us lesser mortals cant help but want the same light cast upon other areas


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark2410* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hpa its what you get for writing up kick ass monster post such as your 400 different amp review and comparison thread

 write something so very useful and us lesser mortals cant help but want the same light cast upon other areas_

 

Thanks, I appreciate it. I will try the OPA627 in the XM5 next, but it might be a couple of weeks. 

 With the AD8065/BUF634 I think the XM5's main DAC/amp competitors are the 3MOVE and Predator, and I wonder why I haven't tried the OPA627 yet. (maybe I read impressions in here and decided not to try it, I just don't recall.) While the Pico's DAC section is much better, I think I like the XM5 amp section more than the Pico amp section now that I have the AD8065/BUF634 in mine.


----------



## mark2410

this may seem like an odd question but does anyone else have trouble plugging in usb cables to the XM5. it seems all the ones i have are just fractionally too big at the plug and bump into the screw holding the device together.

 any one have any nice small plugged mini usb cables?


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love my XM5 but I have a question for those that use it as a DAC, if the amp section sounds a lot better than the DAC section why not just use the headphone out of your pc and run it through the amp section instead of using the DAC feature through USB?

 Just curious on this I do not use the XM5 as a dac._

 

I'm no expert on the DAC use, but the 2702 in my XM-5 gives me better sound then the sound card in my Dell or laptop.

 I might have a different opinion if I had one of the $100+ sound cards


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The XM5 DAC with Burr Brown Japan PCM2702 (like the 3MOVE) is better than most PC headphone out jacks. It is pretty good, but just a little behind the DAC in the Pico, Micro DAC, D10 or Duet. So, it isn't worth amping most PC or laptop headphone out (or even my Macbook heapdhone out) when this DAC is better than the average PC DAC._

 

I wonder if the newer 2704 DAC is an improvement, or just a replacement for a no longer available 2702??

 Pity that the DAC isn't socketed as well


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mark2410* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this may seem like an odd question but does anyone else have trouble plugging in usb cables to the XM5. it seems all the ones i have are just fractionally too big at the plug and bump into the screw holding the device together.

 any one have any nice small plugged mini usb cables?_

 

No, never experienced anything like that. You could trim the shell around the plug with a knife to make room for the screw.


----------



## mark2410

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, never experienced anything like that. You could trim the shell around the plug with a knife to make room for the screw._

 

great minds and all that

 thats exactly what i ended up doing several hours ago


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Yup, never let a bad screw get you down.


----------



## swanlee

Thought I's bump this since this forum is turning into the Ibasso forum. More people need to take a look at this amp, after buffers are installed and better opamps put in it competes well with anything out there. Add to it all the features it has and this will be the last portable amp most people will ever need.

 Had mine for almost a year now and still use it daily. Great sounding amp


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought I's bump this since this forum is turning into the Ibasso forum. More people need to take a look at this amp, after buffers are installed and better opamps put in it competes well with anything out there. Add to it all the features it has and this will be the last portable amp most people will ever need.

 Had mine for almost a year now and still use it daily. Great sounding amp_

 

Yes, upgraded with AD8065 and BUF634 the XM5 is noticeably better than stock with bypassed buffers or with AD8397, putting in the top tier of portable DAC/amps like Pico, Predator, 3MOVE, iBasso D4 and D10, etc.

 I love the sleep timer and battery meter functions the most, and for a while the XM5 was the only amp that really sounded excellent with my Freq Show because of the 75 ohm switch. I pretty much don't use the bass/treble boost, but occasionally old 60's jazz albums benefit from the crossfeed (more like a channel blend).


----------



## vhbaske

BUMP, this amplifier is my favorite. I have the rechargeable battery option and 8610 chip. It has many options $500 amps don't offer. Also, like Headphone addict said, the sleep function is very useful. This amp behaves as a warm tone amplifier on occasions and as a very clear on others (depends on the Headphone you use). It has a nice bass, but only if your phones has. It was the first one that brought my attention on eBay when I first wanted one, and I love it. I have the XM5 with the buffers installed. Mine is married to an Ortofon e-Q7 all the time, and rests on others with the Yuins (all six)...


----------



## GreatDane

I've been using my XM5 with HP out from i7 in bed. The bass boost is very useful for this because I mostly listen at very low volume. Lately I've been using PFE. I still love this amp.


----------



## softwight

Just wanted to add that I've upgraded from the xm4 to the xm5 with the 8065 and buf chips. I've been LOVING it. I think the 75ohm option works particularly well with my hd595's. Initially I started using it because the volume was too touchy, but the other day I switched it off to check for sound quality variation. I was rather surprised to find my music sounding very lean and a little over bright (aka, sounding more like hd 595's typically sound with my old xm4 or unamped). I absolutely love the darker deeper sound with the 75ohm switch. 

 I was wondering if anyone else has run the same phones with this amp and what they think of the sound.


----------



## GreatDane

I've used the 75 Ohm switch for KSC75 and 325i, which are both bright cans and it does help tame them.


----------



## softwight

I just purchased some K 702s, plugged them into my xm5... and got a very bad HISSING at low volume levels with no buttons pressed. It went away with the +10db, but I'm still wondering why? Any ideas? Basically anything less than 11:30 on the knob brings the hiss. it also goes away with the 75ohm option pressed in.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *softwight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just purchased some K 702s, plugged them into my xm5... and got a very bad HISSING at low volume levels with no buttons pressed. It went away with the +10db, but I'm still wondering why? Any ideas? Basically anything less than 11:30 on the knob brings the hiss. it also goes away with the 75ohm option pressed in._

 

Is this when using the DAC?


----------



## softwight

all inputs, either HP out of ipod, line out of ipod, and DAC as well.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *softwight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_all inputs, either HP out of ipod, line out of ipod, and DAC as well._

 

I once had a noise problem with my XM5. It happened only once for a short time one day IIRC, then never again. Here's part of an email that I sent to James Forest at Practical Devices:

_A problem which just suddenly began is a bad noise while in low gain. With no source into the analog input, it sounds like static but gets quite loud at around the 1:00 spot. With analog input playing music, there is an obvious noise no matter how loud. If I engage +10 dB, treble boost or + 75 Ohm, the problem goes away. Bass and xfeed switches do not eliminate the noise. The lithium battery seems to be fine and the problem remains with other batteries._

 James did offer to pay for shipping to him and inspect it under warranty but it was never a problem again so I didn't bother.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swanlee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thought I's bump this since this forum is turning into the Ibasso forum. More people need to take a look at this amp, after buffers are installed and better opamps put in it competes well with anything out there. Add to it all the features it has and this will be the last portable amp most people will ever need.

 Had mine for almost a year now and still use it daily. Great sounding amp_

 

July will be 2 years with my XM-5. I haven't tried the 8065 chips yet, but will get to them one day. I wonder if anyone has tried it with the Beyer DT-880's.... probably my next headphone upgrade.


----------



## nsx_23

I have LM4971s and BUF634s in my XM5 atm. Might be time to look at getting some 8065s.


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_July will be 2 years with my XM-5. I haven't tried the 8065 chips yet, but will get to them one day. I wonder if anyone has tried it with the Beyer DT-880's.... probably my next headphone upgrade._

 

I did own a 2003 DT-880 but had sold it by the time my XM5 arrived. I have a T1 on order so I'll let you know how it goes. I tried a HD800 with my SR-71A(stock iPod as source)...didn't have my XM5 with me but I was blown away...XM5 is less powerful.


----------



## nsx_23

I plugged my HD650 into the Xm5 for fun, and it does struggle to drive it.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plugged my HD650 into the Xm5 for fun, and it does struggle to drive it._

 

Does it have the BUF 634 chips or the "Double Cat" (AD 8397) ?? Both put out quite a bit of current.

 I ordered mine with the AD8397, then started rolling a year later. Now have LM6171's and BUF634. Tried the standard OPA134, but didn't like them.


----------



## nsx_23

I have the 8397s, BUF634 and I currently have LM4971s in the amp with the buf chips. 

 What are some must-have op-amps? The AD8620?

 The XM5 + iPod Video via LO is working very well with my UE18s.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are some must-have op-amps?_

 

LME49710


----------



## nsx_23

Just ordered some sample LME49710NAs!

 Any others? I'm open to suggestions as I'm keen on finding which works the best with my UE18s.


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the 8397s, BUF634 and I currently have LM4971s in the amp with the buf chips. 

 What are some must-have op-amps? The AD8620?

 The XM5 + iPod Video via LO is working very well with my UE18s._

 

The AD 8065 seems to be well thought of by many here that are more experienced then I am. 

 I'll be trying a pair myself once I get a better pair of 'phones then the AKG 240S that I have.


----------



## nsx_23

Indeed. HA rates the 8065 very highly.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Harvey/ Ga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD 8065 seems to be well thought of by many here that are more experienced then I am. 

 I'll be trying a pair myself once I get a better pair of 'phones then the AKG 240S that I have._

 

Yah, I'm sticking with the AD8065/BUF634.


----------



## nsx_23

Which others have you tried mate?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which others have you tried mate?_

 

Stock opamps with BUF634, AD8397, and AD8065.


----------



## nsx_23

Received my LME49710 samples. Its certainly a very different sound compared to the ADs. The XM5 now sounds less forward, is more transparent and a bit more "smoothed out".


----------



## TedGamble

To those who have upgraded to AD8065 and BUF634...
   
  I have read the many posts about how smooth and improved this combo is.  I'm using Atrio M5's.  Can I install only the AD8065 and get smoothness, or are the BUF634's need to complete the upgrade?
   
  If anyone has installed only the AD8065's could you comment on that upgrade only?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The only time I tried the XM5 without the BUF634 was with the AD8397 board.  Sorry I can't help.


----------



## ddr

is the ipower 9V from thomas distributing better than the $25 one offered from PDC?  I guess it needs its own charger (>$30), which makes the PDC one seem like a good deal.


----------



## audiophonicshz

harvey/ ga said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *swanlee*/img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...




Hi, I have the 880's 250, with the 8065+buff634. It's a killer combo. You know the feeling when the music sounds so good you want to turn in up more, then a bit more, until you're listening at way more than normal. Yea, that's it. Bass is good, fairly tight. Miss and highs are very transparent. I recabled as well, that makes a bit of difference. Original cables are thin and there's only one neutral wire.


----------



## Apo0th3karY

pea anyone know if this has enough power to do Mad Dogs justice? The MD thread lately has been swearing that theres no portable amp that does MD justice. 

Excuse me for not reading Through this whole thread but with new buffer chips and opamp rolling, will this amp be a good pairing with MadDogs?


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote: 





apo0th3kary said:


> pea anyone know if this has enough power to do Mad Dogs justice? The MD thread lately has been swearing that theres no portable amp that does MD justice.
> Excuse me for not reading Through this whole thread but with new buffer chips and opamp rolling, will this amp be a good pairing with MadDogs?





> I know nothing first hand about the MadDogs, but their ads say that the MD's will work with some of the Iphones, etc.  The XM-5 has a bit more power then the XM-6 (per their website) and lots more then the Iphone, and there's several other power options available by rolling the chips.





> My original purchase was with the AD8397 chip. It produced great sound and volume with my AKG 240S phones. I wanted to try other chips, so I got the BUF634 buffer chips and 3 pair of other "front end" chips. The buffer chips produced a bit more volume.





> Give the XM-5 a try, possibly with the BUF634 and AD8065 chips. If you don't like them/doesn't work with the MadDogs, they'll take it back.


----------



## HeatFan12

Hey Harvey,

Glad to see the XM5 still getting some love. Have had mine for several years and just noticed the different chips they offer now.
Will open her up later today to see what chips I have in there. Been a long time but I think I went with BUF634 but can't remember the other one.
How's the AD8065 & AD8397 DC?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Harvey/ Ga

Quote: 





matthewk said:


> Do you own one? What are your thoughts on it?
> 
> Anyone have recommendations for opamp rolling? It'll have the BUF634P chips installed when they come in the mail (sadly, it might take a few weeks). I'm considering the OPA627 and LME49710 opamps, maybe the AD8610. I'm not really interested in dual-channel opamps, I want to keep the monoblock configuration.


 
  I've had mine for several years  now, originally with the AD8397 chip.  Tried the OP134's with the BUF634 buffers, and did not like as well. I rolled again. Presently have LM6171 chips and the BUF634. Also have the LME49710 chips., but can't remember if I tried them or not.  The LM6171's have been installed for a few years now, so I probably liked them better then the LME's.
   
  Been too long since I did some serious listening with it and different chips...I may make it a winter project
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Maybe I'll get the AD8065 as well.


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