# REVIEW: Audiotailor “Jade” Vacuum Tube Headphone Amplifier



## Skylab

I was approached by Audiotailor to review a new tube headphone amplifier with a unique circuit design. Of course I was immediately intrigued by the idea. I cannot reveal the details of the design, but it does result in their being two headphone outputs, with different sound signatures. This is the principle “feature” of this otherwise well built and attractive, but otherwise unassuming tube headphone amp. The Jade is made in China, and will sell in the USA for $350 shipped – an attractive price.

 Pics:













 The Jade uses the current reigning king of headphone amp power tubes – the 6AS7G – as its output tube. The input tube is a 12AX7. The amp uses one of each tube, meaning that one channel rides on one section of each of these dual-triode tubes. I am a fan of the 6AS7G – it is a powerful, good sounding tube that offers a lot of inexpensive tube rolling options. And of course the 12AX7 may be the most popular 9-pin dual-triode ever. That does mean there are some expensive variants here, but there are also affordable options.

 My Jade, which is an early production unit, did not come with any tubes, so I cannot comment on the stock tubes, but this is just as well – it surely would have come with Chinese tubes, and I wouldn’t even have used them. For the review I used primarily a GEC 6AS7G and a Sylvania 5751 – my experience is the 5751, which is the lower gain version of the 12AX7, sounds better and is quieter in headphone amplifier applications.

 I mentioned mine was an early production review unit, and as such, there were two issues. One is that the 6AS7G’s tube socket was mounted too close to the PCB, and as such, the tube would not insert fully. I alerted Audiotailor, and they have assured me this will be fixed in the final production. It was OK for reviewing, but not acceptable for a buyer, so it’s good they will be correcting that. Also, the volume control was noisy when changing levels. No problem during listening, only when the volume was being changed. 

 Sonically, the Jade was terrific, but it’s a little hard to write the review since one really has to review the different outputs separately. One output is close to solid state – firm, detailed, deep bass, high resolution, very clear and transparent, and certainly not bright or edgy, but not lush or ripe, either. The soundstage was very well defined, but wider than it was deep. It was actually quite similar to the tube-hybrid Head Direct EF1 in sound, which is to say, excellent. Were this it’s only output, I would recommend the Jade, but not to people who were looking for a “tubey” sounding amp. Its sound is more “Yang” than “Yin”. 

 The other output was still very open and transparent sounding, but this time the sound was a little softer and sweeter on top, a little warmer throughout, and with just a little less deep bass, but with a little fatter mid-bass. Mids were on the lush side. The soundstage again was very good, but deeper than it was wide. In this case, were this the Jade’s only output, I would have happily recommended the Jade, but to people looking for a tube amp that was a little on the tubey side. So this output is the more “Yin” of the two.

 What this does is make the Jade a terrific amp for people who own multiple headphones of different sound signatures. I preferred the “Yang” output with my JVC headphones, but I preferred the “Yin” output with my Beyer headphones. The differences are NOT night and day, but they are easily heard, and they do make headphone matching both easy and fun.

 The overall quality of the sound from the Jade was very high for the price. The amp was very quiet. I enjoyed a very wide variety of music, and here again, sometimes I would prefer one kind of music on one or the other of the two outputs, although I normally cannot be bothered with such things. I like to set stuff like that and leave it, so once I identified which of the outputs was best on the specific headphones I was using, I would just leave them that way.

 Being a tube amp, it’s possible to tune the amp with different tube choices. I briefly used a Tung-Sol 5998, and it was just slightly less warm. So of course I slightly preferred it with the warmer of the Jade’s outputs. I did not try rolling 5751’s much – I only have RCA’s, Sylvanias, and GE’s, and I do not hear a huge difference amongst these – and what I do hear makes me prefer the Sylvanias.

 The Jade will be sold web direct, and at $350 shipped to the USA, I think it’s attractively priced. For me it was definitely better sounding than the Darkvoice 336SE. It certainly compares well with the Head Direct EF1, and does offer the option of the two sound signatures. The Jade had no trouble driving any of my headphones well, but the lowest impedance headphone I now own is 64 ohms, and so the EF1 might still be a better choice for very low impedance headphones like Grados or Denons. And it’s not a giant killer – both my Singlepower amps were better, as one would expect them to be for the price and topology. 

 In any case, assuming Audiotailor resolves the small early production issues my review sample had, it gets an enthusiastic recommendation from me as a flexible, good sounding tube amp at an affordable price.


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## whaleyboy

Thank you for the write up!


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## sentinl

Would you recommend this for someone with one headphone? Did you try these with any Senns? Thanks for the writeup


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## prscustom

excellent review thank you


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## mr.khali

Thanks for the great introduction to this amp, Skylab. Another good sub $400 amp?! Interesting concept with the two sound signatures. Does it have any output connectors as well?


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## Skylab

Thanks for the kind comments, folks.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sentinl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you recommend this for someone with one headphone? Did you try these with any Senns? Thanks for the writeup_

 

Sure - you can get 2 different sounds from your one headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry though, I have no Senns to test it with.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mr.khali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the great introduction to this amp, Skylab. Another good sub $400 amp?! Interesting concept with the two sound signatures. Does it have any output connectors as well?_

 

No outputs other than the headphones, no.


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## Sherwood

Excellent review, and what a cool find!

 This comes as great news to a lot of tube holdouts, I'm certain.


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## Sganzerla

Would it be a good match with AKG K701?


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## Skylab

I think the lusher output would be, yes, but I have not owned the K701 in a while.


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## frank99

thanks for the great review! I really like the idea of having two outputs with diff. sound signatures. Must be fun to play with.

 did you compare it with your DV337? they used the same output tube.


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## Skylab

Yes, and while the Jade is surprisingly close, I slightly prefer the 337. But the Jade's "warm" output is definitely warmer than the 337 ever is - the 337 is not an overly romantic tube amp.


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## Icarium

Hrm what qualifies the 6AS7G to be "the current reigning king of headphone amp power tubes"

 Also can you elaborate on what you mean by "yin" and "yang" when talking about the sound signature?


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Icarium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hrm what qualifies the 6AS7G to be "the current reigning king of headphone amp power tubes"

 Also can you elaborate on what you mean by "yin" and "yang" when talking about the sound signature?_

 

There are the following amps using the 6AS7G, off the top of my head:

 WooAudio 3
 WooAudio 2
 Darkvoice 336
 Darkvoice 337
 Singlepower Extreme
 SpaceTechLabs

 I'm sure I am forgetting some. Seems like a lot to me.

 Generally, yin = darker, and in audio lusher, yang = brighter, and in audio leaner.


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## Icarium

Gotcha thanks for the clarification.


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## raffy

Nice! It's good to see a good budget priced tube amp option. Hopefully this will help people get into the wonderful world of tubes.


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## HippieTom

and i sure hope its for sale soon. looks great


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## Hz_joe

It will be release on Jan 2009. It can drive low impedance Cans like Denon D2000 , Grado SR32(tested), ATH-900TI(tested), AKG-K701(Tested), Beyer-880,(tested), Sehh HD-600(tested). It is good for low impedance Cans & high impedance cans with high sensitive.


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## applevalleyjoe

"Better sounding than the DV336SE..." I'm curious, how does it compare to the WOO 3/3+?


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## Skylab

I no longer have my Woo3, but from memory, they would be comparable, with the Audiotailor offering a little more flexibility.


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## Uncle Erik

Any information about this amp's topology? It looks like a VanWaarde OTL with two separate impedances out.


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## Skylab

It would be up to Audiotailor to divulge that


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Uncle Erik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any information about this amp's topology? It looks like a VanWaarde OTL with two separate impedances out._

 

Topology is so simple, It come from P/K Splitter but use high current power tubes in output. Jade get both output from cathode & Anode. When it get output from Anode has cathode feedback. When it get output from cathode has anode feedback. It is only has current gain in output stage. All voltage gain come from first stage. So It has very low distortion in output stage. Due to cathode output & Anode output have difference sound signature. Jade have 2 output with differnce sound signature. I had post a circuit diagram simuliar to Jade few months ago in DIY section. I will post Jade circuit in DIY section later.


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## nsc4u

nice price , think will get one when it on the market.


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsc4u* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nice price , think will get one when it on the market._

 

 Thank ! We accept order now. It will release on 1 Jan.,2009. You can send me email to order it. It no need to pay deposit on order. My email sales@audiotailor.com


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## Sherwood

Audiotailor, it's great to have you here. Your new product looks very interesting, and I'm sure there are lots of enthusiasts here who have a place in their systems for just such an amp.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank ! We accept order now. It will release on 1 Jan.,2009. You can send me email to order it. It no need to pay deposit on order. My email sales@audiotailor.com_

 

It is nice to see you here. You will need to register as a member of the trade if that is what you are.


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## atbglenn

What are the dimensions? Can you post more pictures?


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## Gollie

Great Review Skylab...

 With all these amps coming out of China, a giant killer has got to be on the horizon.


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## Skylab

This one may not exactly be a giant killer, but it is VERY good, and certainly creates some heated competition at this very attractive price point.

 I also really like the tubes used. They seem to synergize well. I am continuing to enjoy listening to the Jade.


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## Godkin

Nice review, Skylab. Good to see reviews of this manufacturer's amps. I was interested in the HEADMONITOR 2, but wasn't brave enough to take the plunge and buy one. I would love to read a review of this amp.


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice review, Skylab. Good to see reviews of this manufacturer's amps. I was interested in the HEADMONITOR 2, but wasn't brave enough to take the plunge and buy one. I would love to read a review of this amp._

 

I can send you a HM1, It is export version of HM2 in difference look. It is a demo unit. You can keep it & transfer payment to us. Ofcourse this Demo unit will have a special discount. You may be can help me to start a Loan Program for Head-Fi member to listen on HM1 if you don't want to keep it. Please feel free to email me if any question.

sales@audiotailor.com


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## Godkin

Thanks, Audiotailor, for your kind offer. I'll e-mail you.


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## holland

I like this idea. It's an interesting use of plate and cathode outputs.

 What impedances can it tolerate? What is the output impedance? I haven't seen the circuit, but can guess at what it is from what you said.

 Are there shots of the guts to see the craftsmanship? Which is the yin (plate?) and yang (cathode?)? or is it the other way around?


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *holland* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like this idea. It's an interesting use of plate and cathode outputs.

 What impedances can it tolerate? What is the output impedance? I haven't seen the circuit, but can guess at what it is from what you said.

 Are there shots of the guts to see the craftsmanship? Which is the yin (plate?) and yang (cathode?)? or is it the other way around?_

 

Thank for your intereing on our products very much. This Link has circuit of Jade & a Jfet + Mosfet with simulair theory. Please look at it.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/jfe...pdated-391053/


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## applevalleyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank ! We accept order now. It will release on 1 Jan.,2009. You can send me email to order it. It no need to pay deposit on order. My email sales@audiotailor.com_

 

I ordered mine today. Thanks Audiotailor.


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## tintin47

that looks really nice. thanks for the review.


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Audiotailor, for your kind offer. I'll e-mail you._

 

HeadMonitor1 will send to you from Hong Kong tomorrow.


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Audiotailor, for your kind offer. I'll e-mail you._

 


 I'm waiting for your comment on HeadMonitor1.


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## Godkin

I am burning in the HM-1 at the minute. I do not think there is any point commenting on the amp until it is playing at its very best. I will give the HM-1 about 100hrs or so and then review the amp fully. Having said that, it is a very fine sounding amplifier with my SENNHEISER HD650s and BEYERDYNAMIC DT880s - I do not have any low impedance headphones to try it with. I have been told by yourselves that in order to improve the sound quality I should replace the stock 6N6 and try the 6H30 valve. The 6H30 is expensive but I will try them to see what improvements they bring about. A better quality 12AX7 may also bring about a better sound.

 All and all, the HM-1 is an impressive amp. It is very well built and sounds excellent. But as I said I want to run the amp in for the full time period before commenting at length. I owe that to you and to myself.


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## Skylab

Pics?


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am burning in the HM-1 at the minute. I do not think there is any point commenting on the amp until it is playing at its very best. I will give the HM-1 about 100hrs or so and then review the amp fully. Having said that, it is a very fine sounding amplifier with my SENNHEISER HD650s and BEYERDYNAMIC DT880s - I do not have any low impedance headphones to try it with. I have been told by yourselves that in order to improve the sound quality I should replace the stock 6N6 and try the 6H30 valve. The 6H30 is expensive but I will try them to see what improvements they bring about. A better quality 12AX7 may also bring about a better sound.

 All and all, the HM-1 is an impressive amp. It is very well built and sounds excellent. But as I said I want to run the amp in for the full time period before commenting at length. I owe that to you and to myself._

 

Thank for your comment very much. Yes ! Replace stock 6N6 to 6H30 sure can improve HM-1 to a high level. We can not supplier it due to too expensive & difficult to import to China. HM-1 is more suitable for Medium to high impedance Cans. It only can drive very high efficient Low Impedance Cans like ATH-900Ti, W1000,W5000 , Denon D2000 & D5000 or simuliar. It can drive AKG-K701 to reasonable level but not very high level.


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## Godkin

I'll post some pics later, Skylab. I'm setting up a new computer, so need to install everything first. In the way of looks it resembles the CAYIN or ICON amps, in that the tubes - 3x6N6s and 1x12AX7 - are enclosed and not in the open like the JADE or indeed the Audiotailor HM-2.


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## tosehee

How do I order this Jade?


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## Godkin

I would suggest you contact Audiotailor directly through this thread. They are very good to deal with.


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## Godkin

Here's some pics of the HM-1:


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## Skylab

Wow - looks nice! Looking forward to more sonic impressions from you


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## nsx_23

Ooh, how much is the HM-1? 

 I seem to recall seeing this on Mingo's HK website. Might pop in and test (possibly buy) one as my first tube amp when I'm over in HK next week. 

 Audiotailor, is your factory in Shengzhen or some other part of mainland china?


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## Godkin

The price AUDIOTAILOR quoted me was $590 US.


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The price AUDIOTAILOR quoted me was $590 US._

 

It is include air parcel world wide.


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nsx_23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooh, how much is the HM-1? 

 I seem to recall seeing this on Mingo's HK website. Might pop in and test (possibly buy) one as my first tube amp when I'm over in HK next week. 

 Audiotailor, is your factory in Shengzhen or some other part of mainland china?_

 

Our Head Office in Hong Kong. Factory is 90KM away from SZ. All units is ship from HK office.


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## nocturnalsheet

audiotailor, do you guys have a website to place order from?

 would like to know the range of products you guys carry. 

 thanks


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nocturnalsheet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_audiotailor, do you guys have a website to place order from?

 would like to know the range of products you guys carry. 

 thanks_

 

Please send me email to order. sales@audiotailor.com


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## applevalleyjoe

Has anyone who has ordered a Jade received their invoice from Audiotailor? I ordered my unit on 12/22 and according to Audiotailor these were supposed to have beeen ready for shipping on 1/1. Subsequently, I also sent two emails to Audiotailor and in both cases have received responses stating that I would get an asnwer within 24 hours...nothing yet. Today I saw a post by Danny saying that Audiotailor would be showing his three models at the Carolina CanJam next month. Does anyone know what's happening here?


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applevalleyjoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone who has ordered a Jade received their invoice from Audiotailor? I ordered my unit on 12/22 and according to Audiotailor these were supposed to have beeen ready for shipping on 1/1. Subsequently, I also sent two emails to Audiotailor and in both cases have received responses stating that I would get an asnwer within 24 hours...nothing yet. Today I saw a post by Danny saying that Audiotailor would be showing his three models at the Carolina CanJam next month. Does anyone know what's happening here?_

 

Jade production scheadule is delay a little. We need to improve it to more perfect before ship it. We will start products it after Chinese new year holiday. We are in holiday now & will resum at 3 Feb.,2009. Jade will ready on 9~10 Feb. Jade , HM1 & Pisces have 1 sample for Cans Fest 2009.


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## boomy3555

My Head direct EF-1 is "On Holiday" as well. Three weeks out.


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## PaulyT

I've ordered a Jade, too. The several e-mails I had to Audiotailor were answered promptly, but yes, they indicated it'd be mid-Feb before it's ready.


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## applevalleyjoe

audiotailor;5353649 said:
			
		

> Jade production scheadule is delay a little. We need to improve it to more perfect before ship it. We will start products it after Chinese new year holiday. We are in holiday now & will resum at 3 Feb.,2009. Jade will ready on 9~10 Feb. Jade , HM1 & Pisces have 1 sample for Cans Fest 2009.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thank you, sir.


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## jpstereo

Has anyone received their Jade yet? Looking for some additional impressions....


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## Hz_joe

some units will finish within 3 days.


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## PaulyT

Yeah, I was told on Monday when I e-mailed that they'd be ready within a week... Waiting anxiously for mine!


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## jpstereo

Great. Please post your impressions PaulyT!


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## jpstereo

Weird thing is the Jade isn't even on their website - unless I am looking at the wrong site: Audiotailor

 I see only the Headmonitor 1 and nothing else .....


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Weird thing is the Jade isn't even on their website - unless I am looking at the wrong site: Audiotailor

 I see only the Headmonitor 1 and nothing else ....._

 

Will have information next week.
 2 units will be ready to ship 2 days later.


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## jpstereo

Still no updates - I'm beginning to wonder....


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## PaulyT

Well, I got an e-mail saying they're ready to ship (from Hong Kong), paypal'ed them the money this morning. So hopefully I'll have it in hand next week...


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## jpstereo

Thanks for the update Paul. Waiting to hear your impressions ....


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## Hz_joe

PaulT Ordered Jade will send from Hong Kong by AirParcel today.


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## moonboy403

I'm very impressed with the Jade. I think it's a very good match with the W5000 as one of the output offers plenty of deep bass which the W5000 lacks a bit. 

 Skylab's review and description of the Jade's sound sig is spot on!


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## Hz_joe

Just found a NewWay to Tune sound Signature without Open Chassis. I had listen on Jade this morning , When I plug other Headphone into other Output jack of Which I had not listening. I found that when I plug in a Headphone sound charater change due to feedback change. 
 Why ? When output from plate , It has cathode feedback. When Output from Cathode , It has plate feedback. If parallel difference resistor, capacitors & Inductance can change feedback condition. It will change sound level & sound charater. We only need a 6.35 Jack & some parts only. I had not expierment on it but I think it is work.


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## PaulyT

Woo-hoo, it's here! Actually it arrived on Saturday, pretty amazing since it shipped from Hong Kong on Thursday. But I was on vacation so didn't get it set up until today.

 The outside box was a bit dinged, but inside the Jade was well protected and survived just fine, without a scratch. I put in the stock tubes and fired it up and it works with no problems; I'm listening to it (hooked up to my Squeezebox) as I type this. It's got plenty of juice to drive my K701's.

 It sounds great to me. But this is my first and only tube amp, and I haven't done any detailed listening tests. I'll defer any further sonic impressions till I've had a chance to listen a while longer, but so far I'm very pleased. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Here are a few pics that I mostly took for members of another forum I frequent (Sound&Vision). My camera skills aren't quite up to par with a lot of folks around here... But it shows the optional protective cage that it comes with; Skylab didn't mention this so maybe this is a new feature. I had none of the spacing issues Skylab mentioned (power tube too close to the transformers), so I guess that's fixed too. The cage barely fits over the stock tube, so there's not a lot of wiggle room there if one wants to try other tubes and still use the cage - but I don't have any idea if there's a standard size/diameter for these things, being a toob noob. I will leave the cage on since I have 2 small kids and 5 cats in my house, this will nicely prevent accidental touches on hot tubes.

 I hear no noise when adjusting the volume, so seems they've fixed that since Skylab's early model, too.


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## GreatDane

Hey! Congrats on the new toy. The 2 outputs would drive me crazy trying to decide which sounds better. lol

 Its two---> TWO amps in one! 

 Enjoy that baby!


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## mbd2884

Another thing to start saving for. Will need to move on the HD600 before I buy an OTL amp though.

 What attracted me is that Skylab thought it matched the DV 336SE. Awesome. Will keep reading this thread as more people receive the final versions.


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## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GreatDane* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey! Congrats on the new toy. The 2 outputs would drive me crazy trying to decide which sounds better. lol

 Its two---> TWO amps in one! 

 Enjoy that baby! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You're right! I keep switching between the 2 outputs depending on what genre I'm listening to. The difference between the 2 outputs is noticeable but not a day and night difference.

 Now I'm waiting for my Sylvannia and Raytheon 5751 to arrive!


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## jpstereo

Very nice indeed Paul! Congrats! A couple of questions.

 Looks like the LED is blue or green rather than red (which Skylab's had) - that's good.
 Also are the headphone jacks 1/4" or 1/8" - it's tough to tell from the pic.

 Looking forward to your future impressions!

 JP


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## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice indeed Paul! Congrats! A couple of questions.

 Looks like the LED is blue or green rather than red (which Skylab's had) - that's good.
 Also are the headphone jacks 1/4" or 1/8" - it's tough to tell from the pic.

 Looking forward to your future impressions!

 JP_

 

They're 1/4".


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## PaulyT

Yup, the jacks are 1/4" (and rear inputs are RCA). Right, it's hard to get the dimensions from the pics alone. It's roughly 10" tall total, maybe 11" deep, and 8" wide. And the power light on mine is green.


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## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, the jacks are 1/4" (and rear inputs are RCA). Right, it's hard to get the dimensions from the pics alone. It's roughly 10" tall total, maybe 11" deep, and 8" wide. And the power light on mine is green._

 


 Many thanks. Jade/Green - makes sense! Enjoy!!!


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## applevalleyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I got an e-mail saying they're ready to ship (from Hong Kong), paypal'ed them the money this morning. So hopefully I'll have it in hand next week..._

 

Pauly, when did you order your unit? I ordered mine on 12/22/08 and have not yet received notification/invoice.


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## PaulyT

1/18/09 is when I first e-mailed them saying I'd like to purchase. They replied that it'd be at least mid-Feb before the Jade would be ready, and I didn't give them money until last week (Tue. I think). They were pretty responsive to e-mail (me asking impatiently when they'd be ready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I'd suggest sending an inquiry to the address that appeared earlier in this thread.


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## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1/18/09 is when I first e-mailed them saying I'd like to purchase. They replied that it'd be at least mid-Feb before the Jade would be ready, and I didn't give them money until last week (Tue. I think). They were pretty responsive to e-mail (me asking impatiently when they'd be ready 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I'd suggest sending an inquiry to the address that appeared earlier in this thread._

 

Seems like you're the first to get a production unit! I'm looking forward to reading your review with different tubes!


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applevalleyjoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pauly, when did you order your unit? I ordered mine on 12/22/08 and have not yet received notification/invoice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I had send email to you about Jade readyy to ship same time as Paul T. May be problem on mail server ! you had not receive it ! You can pay by paypal & ship it on Saturday or Monday. Please feel free to email me if any question.

sales@audiotailor.com


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## Mandrakespain

That Jade looks quite nice! And having a look on Audiotaylor's webpage, I could find some pics of the Headmonitor 2 (although, strangely, only in the Chinse version of the web). which also looks promising:

Headmoitor


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## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems like you're the first to get a production unit! I'm looking forward to reading your review with different tubes!_

 

Yeah, that's one of my next steps. I'll probably start by trying to find the same tubes that Skylab ended up preferring. But I don't want to rush into it, I figure I'll burn in the stock tubes first, and play around with the two outputs of the Jade for a while, to get used to how it sounds now. Then I'll do some rolling later - though I probably won't go crazy with it.


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## PaulyT

Ok the first question with tube rolling is exactly what sort of tube to use. Skylab says the power tube is 6AS7G, which is consistent with the Jade's manual that says 6N5P, and the stock tube which is labeled 6N5P. From what I understand (via google search), these are exactly the same thing, so no problem there. (As I said before, I'm a tube newbie, so you experts please correct me if I say anything wrong here.)

 However, Skylab says the input tube is 12AX7 and he used a slightly lower gain 5751 - consistent with this table of the 12AX7 family I found. However, the Jade manual says 12AU7, which is a very much lower gain from 12AX7 or 5751 (again see the table). I don't see a label on the stock tube itself, and I have no way to test it to see what it actually is. To add to the confusion, the Jade manual shows a picture (figure 2) that says 12AU7 and ECC83 on the same tube - but ECC83 is, from what I understand, equivalent to the 12AX7 (and ECC82 is equivalent to 12AU7).

 So, which is it? Audiotailor folks, are you reading this? Can you clarify?


----------



## Skylab

If the production version uses a 12AU7 that is a change from the prototype I reviewed, which no question used 12AX7.


----------



## PaulyT

Thanks, Skylab. And I think I was somewhat mistaken earlier about your issue with the power tube socket - I thought you meant it was too close to the transformers, but maybe it was really that the socket was too low, below the plane of the casing? If that's the case, it's not a problem now, the top of the socket is flush with the metal case. Is that how it should be? (as opposed to being above, actually sticking out of the case somewhat)


----------



## Skylab

Yes, I am sure they fixed that.


----------



## -=Germania=-

Have you tried the military 6as7 - the 6080 in there? 

 I currently have some and fully willing to take them out of the fs section for you to try since right now I have no intention to use them.


----------



## jpstereo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Is there still promotional pricing available on the Jade? What is the total cost with delivery to the US?

 Thanks,

 JP


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok the first question with tube rolling is exactly what sort of tube to use. Skylab says the power tube is 6AS7G, which is consistent with the Jade's manual that says 6N5P, and the stock tube which is labeled 6N5P. From what I understand (via google search), these are exactly the same thing, so no problem there. (As I said before, I'm a tube newbie, so you experts please correct me if I say anything wrong here.)

 However, Skylab says the input tube is 12AX7 and he used a slightly lower gain 5751 - consistent with this table of the 12AX7 family I found. However, the Jade manual says 12AU7, which is a very much lower gain from 12AX7 or 5751 (again see the table). I don't see a label on the stock tube itself, and I have no way to test it to see what it actually is. To add to the confusion, the Jade manual shows a picture (figure 2) that says 12AU7 and ECC83 on the same tube - but ECC83 is, from what I understand, equivalent to the 12AX7 (and ECC82 is equivalent to 12AU7).

 So, which is it? Audiotailor folks, are you reading this? Can you clarify?_

 


 Sorry ! It is 12AX7 not 12AU7. Our staff forget to correct the diagram.
 I had test it with 12AT7 & 12AU7 today. It work fine on these tubes.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Is there still promotional pricing available on the Jade? What is the total cost with delivery to the US?

 Thanks,

 JP_

 

 Yes ! Jade cost is US$300 + shipping from Hong Kong. Free shipping in promotion periode (Until end of May). It cost around US$90 by EMS.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *-=Germania=-* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the military 6as7 - the 6080 in there? 

 I currently have some and fully willing to take them out of the fs section for you to try since right now I have no intention to use them._

 


 Yes ! It can use 6N5P/6N13 , 6080/6AS7 family. I'm test 6080 in Home with Jade.


----------



## applevalleyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had send email to you about Jade readyy to ship same time as Paul T. May be problem on mail server ! you had not receive it ! You can pay by paypal & ship it on Saturday or Monday. Please feel free to email me if any question.

sales@audiotailor.com_

 

As you can see from the above, I was messaged but my computer probably recognized it as spam and blocked it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not Audiotailor's fault. Have communicated with him and everything is now fine. Had I received his message, I would have received my unit before PaulyT. Thanks for the instant clarification, audiotailor


----------



## Stevesebastianb

Nice write up!


----------



## PaulyT

This is from a post by Skylab in another thread (6AS7G tube rolling):

  Quote:


 Also, the 5998, while generally usable in 6AS7G designs, is NOT identical to the 6AS7G. It has significantly higher transconductance than the 6AS7G. It works fine in the Darkvoice and Singlepower amps that use the 6AS7G, but the tubes are not 100% identical and the 5998 may not work perfectly in every application calling for a 6AS7. 
 

Audiotailor folks, what do you think about using a 5998 in the Jade?


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiotailor folks, what do you think about using a 5998 in the Jade?_

 

Got this by e-mail from Audiotailor (quoting directly):

  Quote:


 5998 can use in Jade but I had never try it. So I has no idea on it sound.


----------



## Skylab

I did not try the 5998 in the Jade so I can't comment on it's sound either.


----------



## PaulyT

Ok, well I've ordered a Tung-Sol 5998, so when it and the Chatham 6AS7G come in, I can start comparing these power tubes. Not that I'm any sort of expert in hearing the subtleties... but I'm looking forward to playing around with it!

 As I've mentioned in other threads, I've also ordered a GE 5-Star black plate 5751 to replace the preamp tube. And am looking for a Sylvania black-plate 5751, too.

 I think that'll be enogh to start with.


----------



## Headdie

Maybe I've missed it, but...

 Can we use both outputs at the same time?
 What are the inputs/outputs on the back?

 Thanks,


----------



## Headdie

Ok, I've read the thread again...

 We can use both outputs at the same time. Moreover, anything you plug in one output may change the sound of the other output.

 There is only one set of RCA inputs on the back.


----------



## applevalleyjoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, well I've ordered a Tung-Sol 5998, so when it and the Chatham 6AS7G come in, I can start comparing these power tubes. Not that I'm any sort of expert in hearing the subtleties... but I'm looking forward to playing around with it!

 As I've mentioned in other threads, I've also ordered a GE 5-Star black plate 5751 to replace the preamp tube. And am looking for a Sylvania black-plate 5751, too.

 I think that'll be enogh to start with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Pauly, where/from whom did you get your 5998's?


----------



## PaulyT

I haven't gotten it yet (just one), but it's on order from Jim Cross - Vacuum Tubes, Inc. - Vacuum Tubes, Inc. Electron Tubes, Radio Tubes, Audio Tubes, Industrial Tubes, Guitar Tubes, Capacitors, Tube Sockets, Tube Testers


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headdie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I've read the thread again...

 We can use both outputs at the same time. Moreover, anything you plug in one output may change the sound of the other output.

 There is only one set of RCA inputs on the back._

 


 Yes ! You are right. When you plug other headphone in other sockets sure will change the sound. Due to it change nfb condition. So you can change the sound by solder capacitors , Inductors, resistors or any LCR network on a 6.35mm jack & Plug it in a Jack. It will be more funny. You can adjust sound charater by yourself. It is no harmful on amps in any combination of L/C/R network. e.g when you solder a capacitor on it. It decrease high frequency nfb. So It increase sensitive of HF. So It will have more High frequency.


----------



## oldwine

i just ordered one, but i ask audiotailor to tailor-made one for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it takes about 2 weeks for it.

 BTW, they can consider provide "upgrade" option like with high grade caps, gold-plated RCA, etc. to fulfill their "audioTAILOR" brand name


----------



## Mandrakespain

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just ordered one, but i ask audiotailor to tailor-made one for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it takes about 2 weeks for it.

 BTW, they can consider provide "upgrade" option like with high grade caps, gold-plated RCA, etc. to fulfill their "audioTAILOR" brand name 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Interesting! Which modifications did you request?

 Thanks and regards


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just ordered one, but i ask audiotailor to tailor-made one for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 it takes about 2 weeks for it.

 BTW, they can consider provide "upgrade" option like with high grade caps, gold-plated RCA, etc. to fulfill their "audioTAILOR" brand name 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes ! Audiotailor - Tailor made what you want.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just ordered one, but i ask audiotailor to tailor-made one for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it takes about 2 weeks for it.

 BTW, they can consider provide "upgrade" option like with high grade caps, gold-plated RCA, etc. to fulfill their "audioTAILOR" brand name 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 edwardpang is your email ? Payment rceived. Will process it soon.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mandrakespain* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting! Which modifications did you request?

 Thanks and regards_

 

As i have both SACD and CD player, would like them tweak the RCA input for me, to use the same amp for comparison.


----------



## oldwine

BTW, i would like to ask, what kind of tubes (6AS7G and 12AX7) do the owners rolled?? and your preference on it?


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_edwardpang is your email ? Payment rceived. Will process it soon._

 

No comment to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes ! Audiotailor - Tailor made what you want._

 

So, any good options for them? e.g. Neutrik headphone jack? Alps potentiometer? Gold-pin tube sockets??

 Thanks


----------



## tapwater

Hi AudioTailor, 

 I purchased my AudioTailor HM1 amp in Hong Kong, Oct 08.

 Few weeks ago, I noticed that the output sound volume of the amp was much lower than it used to and suspected that the 12AX7 tube had died. I reported the problem by writing PM to your head-fi acc and an email to your "sales" email account. Mr. J. L. replied and told me that the partnering shop in Hong Kong has not the replacement for the 12AX7B tube and said that he was going to handover to me a replacement tube in person, the Wed before last week. So far, he had not contacted me and I've written to him a couple of emails without reply.

 Can you help?

 Thx!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tapwater* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi AudioTailor, 

 I purchased my AudioTailor HM1 amp in Hong Kong, Oct 08.

 Few weeks ago, I noticed that the output sound volume of the amp was much lower than it used to and suspected that the 12AX7 tube had died. I reported the problem by writing PM to your head-fi acc and an email to your "sales" email account. Mr. J. L. replied and told me that the partnering shop in Hong Kong has not the replacement for the 12AX7B tube and said that he was going to handover to me a replacement tube in person, the Wed before last week. So far, he had not contacted me and I've written to him a couple of emails without reply.

 Can you help?

 Thx!_

 

You request me to hand cary to but I'm very busy last week, had not return to HK. I had reply to you by email. May be blocked your server. You can email your home address to me. I will send it directly to your home. You can request Hong Kong Dealer(Mingo) replace it and we will send replacement to Mingo.


----------



## PaulyT

Ok, just got in my first set of replacement tubes, the Chatham 6AS7G and the GE 5-star 5751 both came today. I'd been listening to the stock tubes all afternoon and was all prepared to hear a subtle - or maybe not so subtle - improvement in the sound with these. 

 But no, it was terrible! I may not be well trained in listening to this sort of thing, but there was very obvious distortion after just a few minutes of listening to my reference tracks, especially muddy lows, weird noises in highs around e.g. a violin solo. Also everything is off-balance, noticably heavier in the left ear, like someone tweaked a balance knob without my knowledge. (Of course I changed nothing else in the system, just the two tubes.) There must be something wrong with one or the other of these tubes, maybe mostly (or all) in the right stereo channel, since the distortion appears greater in the right ear - though this could also be because I listen mainly to classical and the lower instruments (cellos, basses) are on the right side of the orchestral stage.

 I also noticed I had to turn the volume knob up higher to reach the same sound levels as before, presumably due to the lower gain of the 5751. Not necessarily a bad thing as it seems like there should still be some extra room, but maybe that exacerbates any tube weakness...? Maybe a 5751 isn't the best for me, given that I use low-impedance K701's, and I should go back to a regular 12AX7? Not sure.

 Anyway, tomorrow I will try switching out one tube at a time with the stocks, to try to isolate where the problem is occurring. Both these are used tubes, so it could just be that I got a dud. Though they tested well according to the sellers. Fortunately I didn't spend a lot on these two, although they were't dirt cheap.


----------



## Skylab

That sounds like you got a bad tube. Sorry, man.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, just got in my first set of replacement tubes, the Chatham 6AS7G and the GE 5-star 5751 both came today. I'd been listening to the stock tubes all afternoon and was all prepared to hear a subtle - or maybe not so subtle - improvement in the sound with these. 

 But no, it was terrible! I may not be well trained in listening to this sort of thing, but there was very obvious distortion after just a few minutes of listening to my reference tracks, especially muddy lows, weird noises in highs around e.g. a violin solo. Also everything is off-balance, noticably heavier in the left ear, like someone tweaked a balance knob without my knowledge. (Of course I changed nothing else in the system, just the two tubes.) There must be something wrong with one or the other of these tubes, maybe mostly (or all) in the right stereo channel, since the distortion appears greater in the right ear - though this could also be because I listen mainly to classical and the lower instruments (cellos, basses) are on the right side of the orchestral stage.

 I also noticed I had to turn the volume knob up higher to reach the same sound levels as before, presumably due to the lower gain of the 5751. Not necessarily a bad thing as it seems like there should still be some extra room, but maybe that exacerbates any tube weakness...? Maybe a 5751 isn't the best for me, given that I use low-impedance K701's, and I should go back to a regular 12AX7? Not sure.

 Anyway, tomorrow I will try switching out one tube at a time with the stocks, to try to isolate where the problem is occurring. Both these are used tubes, so it could just be that I got a dud. Though they tested well according to the sellers. Fortunately I didn't spend a lot on these two, although they were't dirt cheap.




_

 

Impedance mismatch shouldn't be your problem as my W5000's impedance rating is 40ohms which is lower than the K701 and the Jade is working great.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Impedance mismatch shouldn't be your problem as my W5000's impedance rating is 40ohms which is lower than the K701 and the Jade is working great._

 

Ok thanks, that's good to know. You're using a 5751 too, right? Pretty sure you are, just verifying.


----------



## tapwater

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You request me to hand cary to but I'm very busy last week, had not return to HK. I had reply to you by email. May be blocked your server. You can email your home address to me. I will send it directly to your home. You can request Hong Kong Dealer(Mingo) replace it and we will send replacement to Mingo._

 

Thanks and i'll resend my address.


----------



## PaulyT

Discovered this morning that it's definitely the GE 5751 that is messed up. It was used, guess you get what you pay for. Oh well, I was looking forward to comparing the GE with the Sylvania, maybe I can find another one sometime.

 Anyway, for now I've got the stock 12AX7 and the Chatham 6AS7G, all seems fine, at least in terms of the ugly distortion I was hearing last night. So at least that tube seems to be ok. I'll reserve judgment about whether the Chatham sounds any better than the stock until I've had a chance to listen more. But I will say that there seems to be a larger difference between the two outputs of the Jade with the Chatham in place. (Or else my ears are getting more sensitive... not sure.) I definitely prefer the right output closer to the volume knob (which I assume is the "yin" Skylab describes) with my K701's, which I think isn't surprising.

 General question: is it the preamp tube that generally has the most effect on SQ? That is, would one expect to hear larger differences between different 12AX7/5751's on the Jade than with different 6AS7G/5998's? 

 I have a Tung-Sol 5998 and Sylvania 5751 on order (both NOS), waiting anxiously!


----------



## oldwine

May i know it is use 12AX7 or 12AU7?? or can use both tubes?? bos i found both 2 kind of tubes were mentioned in this review. Thanks


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May i know it is use 12AX7 or 12AU7?? or can use both tubes?? bos i found both 2 kind of tubes were mentioned in this review. Thanks_

 

There was some confusion because the manual that came with my Jade says 12AU7, which Audiotailor says is a mistake; the "native" tube for it is the 12AX7.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There was some confusion because the manual that came with my Jade says 12AU7, which Audiotailor says is a mistake; the "native" tube for it is the 12AX7._

 

So, will there any problem if misused the 12AU7 on it???


----------



## PaulyT

From an earlier post:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry ! It is 12AX7 not 12AU7. Our staff forget to correct the diagram. I had test it with 12AT7 & 12AU7 today. It work fine on these tubes._


----------



## Skylab

The 12AU7 will not make the amp malfunction, but it probably won't deliver the optimal sound.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok thanks, that's good to know. You're using a 5751 too, right? Pretty sure you are, just verifying._

 

Yes.


----------



## jpstereo

Any further listening impressions on the Jade? Curious to hear your thoughts!


----------



## theScribe

Skylab says that the Jade sounds better than the Darkvoice 336, and the DV 336 is highly recommended as an excellent tube amp for the HD650s. Has anybody tried the Jade with the HD650s?

 Impressions? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -JC


----------



## PaulyT

Sorry for the long silence, I had been waiting for my Sylvania 5751 to arrive and it finally showed up yesterday (1 day to get from Sweden to New York, and almost two weeks to get from NY to Baltimore - ~200 miles - bloody post office).

 So, right now I've got a TungSol 5998 and a Sylvania 5751 in my Jade, and I'm loving it. Sorry I don't have any HD650's to try it with... anyone want to loan me theirs for a while? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had infinite cash, I'd buy some HD650s and W5000s to try out (and hell, a Darkvoice or something to compare with while I'm at it). But I don't see that happening soon for me... sigh.

 I'm still evaluating whether I can hear the difference between different tubes. So far it's pretty subtle to me - more subtle than the difference between the two outputs on the Jade. But I'm new to this so take everything I say with a big grain/pile of salt. I did find one track - solo Renaissance recorder music - that has all sorts of weird distortion/echo/harmonics on it, and I was in a half-panic thinking my tubes were messed up. But it was the same, though less noticeable, with the stock Chinese tubes, and I could also hear the same thing through my regular HT receiver, both with the K701s and my loudspeakers (good ones in an acoustically treated room). So I'm satisfied that it's just something weird on the recording itself, and not a problem with my gear, that's a relief! And it seems to support the notion that the better quality the system, the more revealing it is of weaknesses in a recording.

 Both the 5998 and 5751 are NOS, so I'm gonna burn them in for a few days before I do any more tube rolling (the Sylvania had a definite hum at first, but it cleared up within ~10 minutes). But even with the stock tubes that I've been using for the past several weeks, I think the Jade is an impressive little machine. I'm totally satisfied with the purchase.


----------



## jpstereo

That's good to hear Paul. Keep us up to date with your tube burn in and further listening. The Jade looks to be a real bah-gin!


----------



## DannyB

I found the Jade to mate very nicely with my HD650 and Grado HP2. It is a great bang for the buck IMHO. I put a Telefunken in it which helped a bit but didn't greatly change the overall character of the amp.


----------



## oldwine

For me, i will use DT880 (600 ohm) and SA5000 for it. will still waiting for the amp arrives.


----------



## Hz_joe

Jade will have 10Pcs finish on next tuesday. (3~5 Units at end of this week).It can upgrade to have 2 Input , Zero feedback & -3db switch in option. Cathode output improved low frequency response to much lower by increasing capacitor value from 100u to 1000u due to I found cathode voltage is much lower than plate. So I change to 1000u/35V in cathode out coupling.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, i will use DT880 (600 ohm) and SA5000 for it. will still waiting for the amp arrives._

 

Your Jade is ready in factory today. We will burn in it for 3 days & ship to you next monday.


----------



## Koolpsych

Hmm I'm thinking about the Jade, but wondering how it fares against the DV336SE paired with HD650's. I'm looking to purchase either the Jade or DV336SE.


----------



## PaulyT

I made my decision largely based on Syklab's rankings. The Jade is $300 shipped now I believe - I think the promo is still on.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I made my decision largely based on Syklab's rankings. The Jade is $300 shipped now I believe - I think the promo is still on._

 

Yes ! Promotion until end of May.,2009.


----------



## Hz_joe

Jade new PCB with improved quality.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade new PCB with improved quality.









_

 


 Is mine are this one?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got it finally this afternoon, i just opened the box and installed the tubes, will post the first impression soon

 PS. may i know what is the use of the "H/L" switch on front panel?? is it high/low gain?? as it didn't mention on manual.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS. may i know what is the use of the "H/L" switch on front panel?? is it high/low gain?? as it didn't mention on manual._

 

? Mine doesn't have that... How can we reasonably compare opinions if they keep changing the design all the time?!


----------



## oldwine

i just posted my first impression for it

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/fir...1/#post5572089


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_? Mine doesn't have that... How can we reasonably compare opinions if they keep changing the design all the time?!_

 

I think they are still have some tweaks on it. What i feel we are like the rats in lab...


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is mine are this one?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got it finally this afternoon, i just opened the box and installed the tubes, will post the first impression soon

 PS. may i know what is the use of the "H/L" switch on front panel?? is it high/low gain?? as it didn't mention on manual._

 


 Yes ! You got this new version of PCB. H/L switch is high low gain.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think they are still have some tweaks on it. What i feel we are like the rats in lab...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Basic design & sound signature is no change but some option can be choice by customer. 

 Audiotailor promissed that - Tailor made what you want.


----------



## j2kei

is the H/L switch part of the new PCB? wondering how the this H/L switch would do to the jade for denon d2/5/7000


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j2kei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the H/L switch part of the new PCB? wondering how the this H/L switch would do to the jade for denon d2/5/7000_

 

Due to high impedance cans need more gain but low impedance cans need less. So add a feedback control switch on it. Jade can drive low impedance Cans verywell. So I think Denon cans is no problem. I only tested on Grado SR325 , ATH-900TI, AKG-501 & K701, 240DF , Beryer DT880 , SEH HD600/650.


----------



## j2kei

could you please provide more info about the feedback control switch? i hope it doesnt cost a lot


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes ! You got this new version of PCB. H/L switch is high low gain._

 

So, what is the factory recommendation for using H/L for particular phone?? For example, how setting should be used on Beyer DT880 (600 ohm), SA5000 and AKG K501??

 Thanks a lot.

 I just burnin the amp less than a day, so not much impression about it. i will let everyone know about the performance for it.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, what is the factory recommendation for using H/L for particular phone?? For example, how setting should be used on Beyer DT880 (600 ohm), SA5000 and AKG K501??

 Thanks a lot.

 I just burnin the amp less than a day, so not much impression about it. i will let everyone know about the performance for it._

 

DT880 & K501 use high is better due to it need more gain. Jade need to burn in at least 100 Hours to have it best performance.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *j2kei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_could you please provide more info about the feedback control switch? i hope it doesnt cost a lot_

 

yup, and may we know when do the PCB and the design "finalized"??

 BTW, can you also clarify which headphone jack is plate outupt and cathode output.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Great review and this is under consideration for my first Tube Amp.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yup, and may we know when do the PCB and the design "finalized"??

 BTW, can you also clarify which headphone jack is plate outupt and cathode output._

 

Your amp PCB is finalized design. Left side jack is cathode output , Right side is plate output. 

 IEC AC input will be include soon.


----------



## Dat_Dude

So the current price of these are $300 shipped to the US? Also, is there a website to order from or do I just talk with audiotailor directly? Getting closer to pulling the trigger on it.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So the current price of these are $300 shipped to the US? Also, is there a website to order from or do I just talk with audiotailor directly? Getting closer to pulling the trigger on it._

 

Yes ! US$300 shipped to USA. Other country like Europe additional US$30 on shipping. Paypal charge US$11 if you pay by Paypal.

 Free upgrade to IEC AC sockets , 2 Input , High/Low switch order before end of May. Jade also can operated in Balance Mode. We will supply a balance cable for HD600/HD650 soon. It also suitable for other Cans but need modify on Can. It can delivery double output voltage to Headphone. (Around 3 to 4 times output power). It will be very helpful on high impedance Headphones.


----------



## oldwine

i am also being sad that u now offer free upgrade to IEC AC sockets after i get it, but anyway, it seems an easy modification for change it to IEC (although it must not as tidy as original factory made)

 As a kind recommendation to you, please make sure what have you finalized before putting on market, otherwise, you will make those people who bought in early batches got fooled, and finally, not one will be the first customer to your product, as all will not know will it be "modified" later.

 Just a little comment to it.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i am also being sad that u now offer free upgrade to IEC AC sockets after i get it, but anyway, it seems an easy modification for change it to IEC (although it must not as tidy as original factory made)

 As a kind recommendation to you, please make sure what have you finalized before putting on market, otherwise, you will make those people who bought in early batches got fooled, and finally, not one will be the first customer to your product, as all will not know will it be "modified" later.

 Just a little comment to it._

 

 Thank for your suggestion very much. First batch of customers will become our VIP. Who will benifite in special 10% DISCOUNT or Free shipping when reorder our products. We also can supplier free upgrade parts to them if need(Include free shipping). We can supplier Rear Panel & IEC socket & cable to first batch customers. Please feel free to email me.
 We will have a balanced Cable for HD600/650. It is special design for GK1 & Jade with +- phase output Jack. Jade & GK1 also have 2 output Jack. One Jack is Phase + & other is -. So it can work in balanced out Mode to improve power and sound. We will offer a free Cable as gift to first batch of customer who already received Jade without IEC socket.


----------



## theScribe

just curious, will I receive the version with all the upgrades?

 -JC


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just curious, will I receive the version with all the upgrades?

 -JC_

 

Yes ! You will receive High/Low switch , 2 Input ,IEC socket version.


----------



## mr.khali

Audiotailor,

 Another quick question for you. If I wanted an output loop instead of a second input would the price remain the same?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mr.khali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiotailor,

 Another quick question for you. If I wanted an output loop instead of a second input would the price remain the same?_

 

Yes ! It is at same Price but you should told me when order.


----------



## Dat_Dude

oldwine,
 Any more impressions of this Amp after a little more burn in time?


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oldwine,
 Any more impressions of this Amp after a little more burn in time?_

 

The most thing i admire is, it does not generate much heat, at least much less then the LD and DV products ( i said those amp can used as egg cooker after opened in 1 hr). Also, with the cage installed, u dun need to afraid to be hurt by accident. (however, the screw position is a bit narrow, u need a slim and long screw-driver to fasten them)

 For the sound, after about 50hr burn in, my first impression is (on SA5000 and DT880) powerful, fast and accurate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As i just bought a new SACD player, and i have rearranged the equipment, i think i need more time to let everything stabilized, before making more detailed comment on it.

 Maybe, this Easter holiday is a good chance for me to stay in home and enjoy it well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS. i have tried to put SA5000 and DT800 on both jacks, switched their jacks and let them plug in alone, it is true to give difference signature!


----------



## theScribe

been playing with the jade for two weeks with various headphones.

 I am running Macbook Pro (FLAC, 320, VBR) -> HR MicroDAC 05 -> Jade -> HD650/DT770 80 ohm/SR60.

 The warm sounding output makes the HD650s lush lush lush, perfect to my ears. I could finally sit for hours just exploring this thing.

 The amp, being a tube, doesn't pair as well with the DT770s. I think a SS amp would give the DT770s back its recessed mids and rather muddy treble. (The bass is almost 3d and tight though! Very fun to blast wu-tang clan or Tiesto if you're into that type of music) 

 It pairs well with the SR60s. Sounds like a completely new phone through the "warm" output, no more treble harshness. Just a great blend of warmth and clear (not overly bright) treble.

 Gosh, to think... I sound like one of YOU guys now. Lol, my friends has been more and more skeptical, but audiophilia is not BS. I can hear a clear difference between a good setup and bad setup. I was very skeptical once, thought you guys were crazy and had this six sense in sound, but it takes a while for your brain to warm up to good audio.

 Headphones make about 80% of the sound difference, the Amp/Source (although i only had experience with MicroDAC over Macbook Pro) makes up the other 20%. 

 It's very beautifully built. More so than the EF1 and compared to most other amps on Pacific Valve looking at the pictures. The brushed black steel looks very classy.

 That's my report. I will call this the HD650 mate. My first tube amp. 

 -JC


----------



## alexboo12

Awesome report, thanks guys


----------



## theScribe

now, I'm not much of a DIYer and I am basically electrically dumb, but does anyone have any internal shots of what the innards of the Jade looks like?

 If i knew how to take it apart and could put it together in one piece without being paranoid I would do it and take some shots. Did any experienced DIY jade owners have a chance of taking it apart to look inside yet?

 If someone can post photos it would be much appreciated. I want to see how well it is wired, and just plain curiosity.

 -JC


----------



## oldwine

Nice report and impression. I am rather busy this Easter holiday, so i cannot finish my detailed report for Jade. However, i find that if you plug in both jacks and the cans are in similar impedance (like SA5000 (70ohm) and K501 (120ohm) ) it can give better result.

 I once plug it with the 600ohm DT880 and SA5000, find it sounds somehow strange, especially when it plugs in and out.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_been playing with the jade for two weeks with various headphones.

 I am running Macbook Pro (FLAC, 320, VBR) -> HR MicroDAC 05 -> Jade -> HD650/DT770 80 ohm/SR60.

 The warm sounding output makes the HD650s lush lush lush, perfect to my ears. I could finally sit for hours just exploring this thing.

 The amp, being a tube, doesn't pair as well with the DT770s. I think a SS amp would give the DT770s back its recessed mids and rather muddy treble. (The bass is almost 3d and tight though! Very fun to blast wu-tang clan or Tiesto if you're into that type of music) 

 It pairs well with the SR60s. Sounds like a completely new phone through the "warm" output, no more treble harshness. Just a great blend of warmth and clear (not overly bright) treble.

 Gosh, to think... I sound like one of YOU guys now. Lol, my friends has been more and more skeptical, but audiophilia is not BS. I can hear a clear difference between a good setup and bad setup. I was very skeptical once, thought you guys were crazy and had this six sense in sound, but it takes a while for your brain to warm up to good audio.

 Headphones make about 80% of the sound difference, the Amp/Source (although i only had experience with MicroDAC over Macbook Pro) makes up the other 20%. 

 It's very beautifully built. More so than the EF1 and compared to most other amps on Pacific Valve looking at the pictures. The brushed black steel looks very classy.

 That's my report. I will call this the HD650 mate. My first tube amp. 

 -JC_

 

Many thanks for your impressions. Mine should be here next week. Looking forward to hooking up my HD600s now more than ever!


----------



## jpstereo

Arrived today in perfect shape! It's very substantial - larger than I thought but also very well made. It came with an EH 12AX7 and a Chinese made 6as7. I replaced it with a Chatham JAN 6as7 and I am using a MAC after-market power cable. My initial impressions are very positive. To get this kind of quality for $300 is mind-blowing!


----------



## mr.khali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arrived today in perfect shape! It's very substantial - larger than I thought but also very well made. It came with an EH 12AX7 and a Chinese made 6as7. I replaced it with a Chatham JAN 6as7 and I am using a MAC after-market power cable. My initial impressions are very positive. To get this kind of quality for $300 is mind-blowing!_

 

Congrats on the new amp! Would love to read a comparison between your lunch box and mapletree once it is burned in.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Arrived today in perfect shape! It's very substantial - larger than I thought but also very well made. It came with an EH 12AX7 and a Chinese made 6as7. I replaced it with a Chatham JAN 6as7 and I am using a MAC after-market power cable. My initial impressions are very positive. To get this kind of quality for $300 is mind-blowing!_

 

Great! Glad you like it! Our little "Jade club" here is growing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you know anything about the "EH" brand? I wonder if the 12ax7 that came with mine is the same... probably; but I had no idea how to identify it. I've been slowly collecting some tubes of both types for the Jade, will start some rolling in the very near future. Very curious to see what differences I can hear.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great! Glad you like it! Our little "Jade club" here is growing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you know anything about the "EH" brand? I wonder if the 12ax7 that came with mine is the same... probably; but I had no idea how to identify it. I've been slowly collecting some tubes of both types for the Jade, will start some rolling in the very near future. Very curious to see what differences I can hear._

 

The EH 12AX7 I was referring to is Electro Harmonix - very popular tube made in Russia. It has yellow labeling and it clearly has the brand name and tube type stamped on it. Did you get the same? The 6as7 was a Chinese made model which I promptly replaced.

 I am looking forward to breaking this in over the next several weeks but I'm already enjoying this. Still hard to believe it's only $300. I hope more folks jump on this before the price goes up. Good stuff cheap!


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mr.khali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats on the new amp! Would love to read a comparison between your lunch box and mapletree once it is burned in.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Believe it or not - I sold the Mapletree (not becuase I didn't like it!!)

 I can tell you that I still amazed that the Lunch Box Pro sounds as good as it does. I drives my K701s beautifully. Too bad these are no longer available. Perhaps they will be offered again in the future.


----------



## Dat_Dude

JPStereo, I have a couple questions.

 1) How long did it take to get to your door after you ordered it?
 2) Where did you purchase your replacement tubes? I am going to be getting the Jade, but don't know where to get tubes.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Believe it or not - I sold the Mapletree (not becuase I didn't like it!!)

 I can tell you that I still amazed that the Lunch Box Pro sounds as good as it does. I drives my K701s beautifully. Too bad these are no longer available. Perhaps they will be offered again in the future._

 

 Jade can drive K701 well but bass control not as good as Solid state or Hybird. Sure ! It is not bad. We will offer a low cost Solid state version. (Jfet + Mosfet). It use same topology as Jade but good for drive Low impedance Cans. It even can drive small Multi Media speakers. It is single end OTL have same charateristic as Jade. It is good match on low impedance Cans like Grado. It can Rock your soul. It will offer at around US$120. Free shipping from Hong Kong. More special price if you buy together with Jade.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpstereo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The EH 12AX7 I was referring to is Electro Harmonix - very popular tube made in Russia. It has yellow labeling and it clearly has the brand name and tube type stamped on it. Did you get the same?_

 

Nope, mine was totally unlabeled/unmarked. I'll post a pic at some point. Maybe they have a grab-bag of random tubes to include, since nobody uses them anyway... Although I did use the stocks for a while when I first got the amp, since I hadn't gotten replacements yet, and it still sounded pretty good. I will include the stocks when I do my rolling.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Audiotailor,
 Can you explain from your point of view what would match well with the Jade? As far as headphones and styles of music?


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JPStereo, I have a couple questions.

 1) How long did it take to get to your door after you ordered it?
 2) Where did you purchase your replacement tubes? I am going to be getting the Jade, but don't know where to get tubes._

 

It only took a week! Amazing - that's better than domestically shipped packages in some cases!

 I typically get my tubes from eBay. Tons of reputable sellers and great prices! Search away!


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope, mine was totally unlabeled/unmarked. I'll post a pic at some point. Maybe they have a grab-bag of random tubes to include, since nobody uses them anyway... Although I did use the stocks for a while when I first got the amp, since I hadn't gotten replacements yet, and it still sounded pretty good. I will include the stocks when I do my rolling._

 

Yup. I am sure it's whatever they have on hand. I lucked out with the EH. You can get them for about 10-12 bucks a piece on eBay. Decent tube. I also have some NOS tubes that I will also try.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2) Where did you purchase your replacement tubes? I am going to be getting the Jade, but don't know where to get tubes._

 

Yeah, I got a few from ebay sellers. Other places I got some of mine:

 - Vacuum Tubes, Inc., Vacuum Tubes, Electron Tube, Radio Tubes, Audio Tubes, Industrial Tubes, Guitar Tubes, Capacitors, Tube Sockets, Tube Testers

 - www.tubeworld.com


----------



## Skylab

The E-H 12AX7 isn't bad, but any NOS 12AX7 will sound better - RCA, Sylvania, GE, etc. - not to mention the 5751 which sounds better still.

 In addition to the above, you can get 6AS7G's (usually RCA's) from Antique Electronic Supply .


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiotailor,
 Can you explain from your point of view what would match well with the Jade? As far as headphones and styles of music?_

 

 Jade suitable to wide range of Headphone like Grado SR325, AKG-K501/601/701, Beryer DT880/990 , SEHH HD600/650 , ATH-900TI ,w5000 ........... Due to Jade have enough power , 2 output with difference sound charater, high/low gain switch. Wide range of music is suitable just depend on what cans are use.

 Jade have few stock in factory now.It can send out from Factory to Hong Kong same day as payment & send it from HK office next day. (Send from Hong Kong is faster than direct from China & cheaper).


----------



## Dat_Dude

Add another one to the "Jade Club"! Just placed my order, now I have to find some tubes!


----------



## jpstereo

Congrats! A very good investment ....


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Add another one to the "Jade Club"! Just placed my order, now I have to find some tubes!_

 

Jade will send it from China to Hong Kong tomorrow & resend it from Hong Kong day after tomorrow.


----------



## oghoter

Me, too. I am following advice here on headfi, buying the Jade and a balanced cable for my Sennheiser 600. I hope the amp will fit my source, DSD recordings (from vinyl) made on the Korg MR-1 recorder. Btw, this source blows away all PCM recordings I've heard, and is a great value. I am also burning in a AKG K 450 headphone, which has potential, but has not opened up, right from the box. I will use it also with my Cowon D2 (again, good value). I will report back, after getting this new rig in order. Eagerly waiting for the Jade. Thanks to all headfi members who contribute to this forum!


----------



## jpstereo

Congratulations. I have a feeling you will like the Jade as much as we do! Looking forward to your impressions ...


----------



## PaulyT

Great! FYI, I compared the Jade to my HT receiver's HP jack, and while of course you'll be unsurprised to hear the Jade is better, it's good to actually do the test and convince myself that what I'm hearing is real. I won't post the whole thing here since it's kinda long, but you can go read it at the S&V forum:

SoundAndVision Magazine Forums - View Single Post - Spend my money - Headphone Amp


----------



## Skylab

Nice. It's always good to do sanity checks like that.


----------



## PaulyT

Did some comparing of the K701 to HD580 with the Jade this afternoon - not a tremendous amount of time/detail, but it seems pretty clear to me so far that the K701's are much better. They are clearer, more neutral (though perhaps a trifle bright sometimes), more detail especially on the high end, and wider soundstage. The 580 has pretty good bass, but it gets a bit mushy; listening to pipe organ had good low end but I kinda lost the sense of being in the (big) room with the instrument. The K701 keeps that atmosphere even with low notes that I think are really quite decent (I've heard complaints that the K701 doesn't have enough bass, but I think rather it simply doesn't have too much).

 And while it's true that with the low impedance K701 I have to turn up the volume a lot higher - maybe 1/4 turn more than with the 580 - it's rare that I go over ~50% volume on the Jade, so it seems there's still plenty of headroom for the peaks. I don't listen at bleeding-ear volumes, so for me the Jade handles the lower impedance just fine. Perhaps if it were really an issue, one could use a regular 12AX7 with higher gain than the 5751 as I have now, though the 5998 over the 6AS7G probably balances that to some extent.

 Now if I could only afford something like an ATH-A2000X to try out... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But that costs about as much as the Jade, the K701's, and the NOS tubes combined.


----------



## jpstereo

I'm currently breaking in a NOS RCA 6AS7G in my Jade and I already like what I'm hearing. Leaps and bounds over the stock Chinese tube and a bit nicer than my Chatham. These tubes are cheap and mighty nice! Highly recommended!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Where did you buy your tubes, jp?

 Nice impressions and comparisons PaulyT. Now I cannot wait for my 600 ohm Beyers AND Jade to get here to try them out!


----------



## moonboy403

Try ebay.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you buy your tubes, jp?

 Nice impressions and comparisons PaulyT. Now I cannot wait for my 600 ohm Beyers AND Jade to get here to try them out!_

 


Vacuum Tubes, Inc., Vacuum Tubes, Electron Tube, Radio Tubes, Audio Tubes, Industrial Tubes, Guitar Tubes, Capacitors, Tube Sockets, Tube Testers

 Great service and ultra-fast shipping!


----------



## Dat_Dude

Thanks!


----------



## PaulyT

Guys, I've started a rolling thread, so we can better keep track of who's done what. And post more pretty picture. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please join in!


----------



## PaulyT

Hey all! I started Team Audiotailor Jade - please join! Hopefully I set this up right...


----------



## Dat_Dude

I am in. Now it just has to get here! I can't wait!


----------



## GreatDane

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all! I started Team Audiotailor Jade - please join! Hopefully I set this up right..._

 

Looks good to me.


----------



## jpstereo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey all! I started Team Audiotailor Jade - please join! Hopefully I set this up right..._

 

 I'm in! Hope to post some pics soon. Thanks for setting this up Paul!


----------



## Stevesebastianb

Finally I get to pick up my "Jade" from Audiotailor directly on Thursday, seems such a long wait, hehehe.


----------



## Hz_joe

Standard Jade have stock in Hong Kong office now. No need to wait anymore. Upgrade version need 10 days to 2 weeks.

 I had received a enquiry from David and try to send email to him but blocked & returned. Please send a Head-fi message to me if you seen this message.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Which one did I pay for? Just curious.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which one did I pay for? Just curious._

 

You had order standard Jade with IEC socket, 2 Input (RCA x 1 set , 3.5mm x 1 Set), HIgh/Low gain.


----------



## oghoter

J


----------



## oghoter

Jade and GK 1-J have arrived, both sound good, with Senn HD600 and with AKG K450 phones. OTL sound. The Senns with balanced cable goes into sublime territory.


----------



## donunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade can drive K701 well but bass control not as good as Solid state or Hybird. Sure ! It is not bad. We will offer a low cost Solid state version. (Jfet + Mosfet). It use same topology as Jade but good for drive Low impedance Cans. It even can drive small Multi Media speakers. It is single end OTL have same charateristic as Jade. It is good match on low impedance Cans like Grado. It can Rock your soul. It will offer at around US$120. Free shipping from Hong Kong. More special price if you buy together with Jade._

 

Wheres this $120 amp? is it out now? Would you say it will sound better than the jade for audio technicas?


----------



## donunus

Dat Dude,
 Can you do some quick comparisons jade(using both settings) vs glite?


----------



## Dat_Dude

I received it, but haven't even turned it on yet. Finding a DAC has taken longer than I thought so I may end up using the DAC on the Compass in Super mode and the Jade as the amp. Either way I will try and let you know how it compares to the GLite.


----------



## donunus

Thanks, Im looking forward to the comparison


----------



## Stevesebastianb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You had order standard Jade with IEC socket, 2 Input (RCA x 1 set , 3.5mm x 1 Set), HIgh/Low gain._

 

^^^ Joseph,






 Just a short note to say thank you for a great sounding headphone amp. I picked up the unit from CK last night finally after work and have been listening to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, very good! The stock matched tubes are not bad at all, but I have 6AS7G x 1, 12AX7 x 1 - rolled with Sylvania 6AS7G and Siemens Dual Post 12AX7 now as I like this combo!

 Thanks again!

 Steve


----------



## oghoter

The Jade is burning in nicely. Are there any small desktop speakers sensitive enough to be driven by this amp? Like, single-driver (full-tone)? Once you get the OTL sound on your desktop, you dont want to go back! Even if my serious listening is with h-phones, I am only human (as they say in a new Headroom advertisment) and use speakers too. I tried a pair of active desktop speakers (Sony SRS Z500) connecting the Korg Mr1 source to the Jade, and the Jade headphone out to the speakers. Even if this is of course not optimal (two amps) it actually lifted the sound a notch or two.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stevesebastianb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^ Joseph,

 Just a short note to say thank you for a great sounding headphone amp. I picked up the unit from CK last night finally after work and have been listening to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, very good! The stock matched tubes are not bad at all, but I have 6AS7G x 1, 12AX7 x 1 - rolled with Sylvania 6AS7G and Siemens Dual Post 12AX7 now as I like this combo!

 Thanks again!

 Steve 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very nice picture! Wouldn't having tubes add to the already insane heat in HK?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oghoter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Jade is burning in nicely. Are there any small desktop speakers sensitive enough to be driven by this amp? Like, single-driver (full-tone)? Once you get the OTL sound on your desktop, you dont want to go back! Even if my serious listening is with h-phones, I am only human (as they say in a new Headroom advertisment) and use speakers too. I tried a pair of active desktop speakers (Sony SRS Z500) connecting the Korg Mr1 source to the Jade, and the Jade headphone out to the speakers. Even if this is of course not optimal (two amps) it actually lifted the sound a notch or two._

 

I try to design a high sensitive speakers Box suitable for driving by Headphone amp. It seem to be workable on short distance listening. May be for Note book computer use. It sound great and level good enough.


----------



## Stevesebastianb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice picture! Wouldn't having tubes add to the already insane heat in HK? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

^^^ Yes, but fortunately we have full air-conditioning which is great for the tubes and for me. LOL


----------



## Stevesebastianb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audiotailor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I try to design a high sensitive speakers Box suitable for driving by Headphone amp. It seem to be workable on short distance listening. May be for Note book computer use. It sound great and level good enough._

 

^^^ Joesph, that would be interesting - need to find small but very high efficiency speakers.


----------



## oghoter

Correction - it is not just a notch. The small Sony SRS Z500s have never sounded this good before. They have more depth, delicacy and humanness. Probably, very sensitive passive speakers would sound cleaner. On the other hand, the 500s have an adequate frequency range, are well designed, etc. Audiotailor, have you compared this to your own solution? I turn Jade volume almost to max to get the best sound, but haven't noticed much clipping problems.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oghoter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correction - it is not just a notch. The small Sony SRS Z500s have never sounded this good before. They have more depth, delicacy and humanness. Probably, very sensitive passive speakers would sound cleaner. On the other hand, the 500s have an adequate frequency range, are well designed, etc. Audiotailor, have you compared this to your own solution? I turn Jade volume almost to max to get the best sound, but haven't noticed much clipping problems._

 

Jade is not very sensitive but has good enough power headroom. So even you turn it to Max still not Clipping. I had not compare with active speakers & passive speakers. We are ordering some small speakers more sensitive. It is not arrive yet. I only test it with a normal small multi-media speakers of which have 2 1.5 inch unit. I connect it in series.


----------



## oghoter

Found this over at Audioasylum:
 "Posted by 999RBen on 2008-03-03, 07:05:45 (208.186.35.221)
 I just got a ASL OTL headamp & man I dont think I have ever heard any thing so pure sounding."
 Agree. Would be interesting to test your small speakers.


----------



## pkrdlr007

Hz Joe, Does this amp have self biasing feature?.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pkrdlr007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hz Joe, Does this amp have self biasing feature?._

 

*[size=small]Jade have stock in Hong Kong now[/size]*

 It is self bias design. Due to output tube voltage gain is <1. It is no problem even tubs not very good balance between 2 section.


----------



## pkrdlr007

Anyone going to post pics of the Jade's gut's?.


----------



## djevoultion

Thanks for review


----------



## oghoter

Here are pics of how I use active speakers with the Jade, first solution using a sausage termos for the left speaker...use what you have. Even if of course the Jade sounds best with top headphones, the effect using active speakers is also remarkable.


----------



## oghoter

AudiogoN Forums: Best recording
 oystein


----------



## oghoter

Further listening note: the Jade can lift the Senn 600 headphones to a correct level, while the adaption to Sony Z500 - expectedly - is more problematic. I just wanted to note the fun you can have, even so, setting up desktop speakers in the best way. Jade with matching desktop speakers, for when you get tired of headphones - interesting, wish you luck, Audiotailor. Certainly it has lifted my own speakers to new heights. However, it only sounds good on low very-nearfield-listening levels. If I ask the Sony's to take over more of the amp duty (these are active speakers, remember), the OTL advantage towards soundwise glory dies down. Likewise, if I ask my source (a Korg MR1) to compensate, there is some suboptimal sound effect (harder to pin down, the Korg sounds best ca 50 percent of 100, I think).


----------



## packet

That thing looks amazing. I just might have to pick one up. I've been looking to start rolling tubes for a while now, this looks perfect!


----------



## oghoter

Preliminary AKG K450 listening notes - like everything i've tried, the Jade gets the best out of these. They have now burned in 100 hours or so, but from some AKG enthusiasts it is argued 400-500 hours are needed. They are not as good as the Senn 600, so far, but very enjoyable, and the price is not perhaps so steep, considering you can use them for running. Quite hi-fi on the run. They are less precise, less wide, less informative than the Senns (so far), but have a very good musical picture nevertheless. Listening to music I know well, like Kula Shaker, I think - I could live with the AKGs and the Jade and be very satisfied. "Mystical machine gun fire" sounds great.


----------



## Hz_joe

Thank for support. Jade have stock in HongKong. It no need to wait anymore. Can pay by paypal & send it out by EMS within 24 Hours. Shipping need around 3 ~ 4 days for most country. I'm in Munich, Germany& will back to HK 25 May.


----------



## sfmatt

Audiotailor Jade here I come.... or actually come to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I just pulled the trigger, requested a little mod: a TRS stereo plug (1/4"/6.3mmm) instead of a second RCA (to connect my DAC out to the Jade).

 Many thanks to Skylab for this and so many other helpful reviews.


----------



## sfmatt

Errr first attempt not succesful, seems head-fiers are jamming Joseph's maibox !

 "Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx1.vizztech.com.
 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
 This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
 <@mx1.vizztech.com>:
 user does not exist, but will deliver to /home/vpopmail/domains/vizztech.com/bounce/
 user is over quota"


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Errr first attempt not succesful, seems head-fiers are jamming Joseph's maibox !

 "Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx1.vizztech.com.
 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
 This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
 <@mx1.vizztech.com>:
 user does not exist, but will deliver to /home/vpopmail/domains/vizztech.com/bounce/
 user is over quota"_

 

Send email to sales@audiotailor.com , audiotailor id is not allowed for trade member. My ID change to HZ_Joe


----------



## sfmatt

Indeed everything works fine now, I just sent you money through paypal.

 Many thanks!


----------



## Hz_joe

Many thank for all users support very much. We received many enquiry from difference country & I can not reply in time due to I goto Munich for 7 days. We will extend our promotion periode more longer & differnce methode.

 Free shipping extend to end of July.,2009, Buyers pay 1/4 shipping cost before end of sept.,2009 , 1/2 Shipping cost before end of Nov.,2009 , 3/4 Shipping cost before end of Jan.,2010 , Should pay full shipping cost order after end of Jan.,2010.

 Sehh HD600 balanced cable special offer at US$30 when order together with our products.


----------



## theScribe

joe, do you have pictures of the balanced sennheiser cable?


----------



## Ricey20

would like pictures of these cables as well. Definitely going to order a Jade to use as interim/and smaller footprint secondary amp until I get my WA22


----------



## .Sup

whos selling the Jade?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_would like pictures of these cables as well. Definitely going to order a Jade to use as interim/and smaller footprint secondary amp until I get my WA22 _

 

Sorry for off-topic. Hey, Ricey20, congrats for the great move of a WA22.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *.Sup* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_whos selling the Jade?_

 

Hz Joe, who's the member of trade for Audiotailor, is selling the Jade. I believe Audiotailor Jade is a subdivision of Antique Sound Lab.


----------



## yogibearal

Hi folks new to Head-Fi and looking into this head amp - but so far my 2 attempts at contacting the seller bounced back with failure notice that user does not exist. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am interested in getting this head amp as well as a balanced cable for the HD600/HD650. Any pictures of the balanced cable would be great as well.


----------



## PaulyT

Try both "sales - at - audiotailor.com" and "sales - at - tubehifi.com", I got e-mail from both these addresses when I was purchasing.

 You could also PM HZ_Joe.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yogibearal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi folks new to Head-Fi and looking into this head amp - but so far my 2 attempts at contacting the seller bounced back with failure notice that user does not exist. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am interested in getting this head amp as well as a balanced cable for the HD600/HD650. Any pictures of the balanced cable would be great as well._

 

Yes ! PM to HZ_Joe is OK. I check PM everydays at least 2 ~ 3 times.


----------



## Ricey20

Ordered one with neutrik jacks, alps volume, Infinite coupling cap. Hopefully it will be done in a week


----------



## Stevesebastianb

Joe, Any photos of your solid state amp? Would like to see it and may be you can post some specs also.


----------



## moonboy403

I was at Canjam today and I was surprised that there was no Audiotailor product to be found ANYWHERE.


----------



## Hz_joe

It sell direct only. Jade ship out many Pcs already.


----------



## nlaudio

Looks like a nice amp for the price.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stevesebastianb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, Any photos of your solid state amp? Would like to see it and may be you can post some specs also.




_

 

Photo of GK1-J , 






Web site updated - Audiotailor 

 Jade , GK1-J , GK1-DELUX is available on web now.


----------



## Stevesebastianb

^^^ Thanks Joe, will look at your website. I saw the upgrade "deluxe" version of the solid state amp in Mong Kok today!


----------



## theScribe

Hey Joe, is that the balanced Sennheiser cable?


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Stevesebastianb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^^ Thanks Joe, will look at your website. I saw the upgrade "deluxe" version of the solid state amp in Mong Kok today!




_

 

I wish I'm in Hong Kong to audition it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But on the other hand, if I'm in HK, I wouldn't have been able to attend Canjam.


----------



## yogibearal

Sent PM to HZ_Joe - e-mail from 2 different accounts have failed so using this as last resort. 

 BTW - has anyone who has this amp ever listened to the Elekit 882AS or WA3? How does it compare?

 This is would be my first dedicated head amp and I'd likely be using this in the office with Senn HD600.

 Thanks,

 Al


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Joe, is that the balanced Sennheiser cable?_

 

Yes ! It is balanced Sennheiser cable. It is by 2 core Teflon + Shielding x 2 , each channel with + wire & - wire & shielding. It is very good seperation between 2 channel. It is special offer to Audiotailor users. It can use on Jade , GK1-J , GK1-Delux and later models with same topology as Jade.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yogibearal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sent PM to HZ_Joe - e-mail from 2 different accounts have failed so using this as last resort. 

 BTW - has anyone who has this amp ever listened to the Elekit 882AS or WA3? How does it compare?

 This is would be my first dedicated head amp and I'd likely be using this in the office with Senn HD600.

 Thanks,

 Al_

 

Please try sales@tubehifi.com , sales@audiotailor.com ,13902625251@139.com or send to our HK office century@valve.imsbiz.com.hk , They will forward to me.


----------



## theScribe

So, how much for a Jade user? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -JC


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, how much for a Jade user? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -JC_

 

US$30 + shipping


----------



## theScribe

I want to try it, how much is shipping from HK?

 -JC


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I want to try it, how much is shipping from HK?

 -JC_

 

US$10


----------



## Stevesebastianb

^^^ Hmmmmm, I may also want to try


----------



## sfmatt

Something is puzzling me: the power output of the Jade @300ohm is 53mw at the plate output and 100mw at the cathode output (from ANTIQUE SOUNDLAB). Compare with the LD MkIII producing 350mw @300/600ohm.
 @32ohm the Jade outputs 15mw (plate) or 20mw (cathode) whereas the iBasso d10 (a portable amp) is rated at 100mw.

 But no one has reported the Jade to be underpowered so far. I'm wondering if the measurements are comparable?


----------



## Skylab

IME, most tube headphone amps have WAAAAAY more power than they ever need.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something is puzzling me: the power output of the Jade @300ohm is 53mw at the plate output and 100mw at the cathode output (from ANTIQUE SOUNDLAB). Compare with the LD MkIII producing 350mw @300/600ohm.
 @32ohm the Jade outputs 15mw (plate) or 20mw (cathode) whereas the iBasso d10 (a portable amp) is rated at 100mw.

 But no one has reported the Jade to be underpowered so far. I'm wondering if the measurements are comparable?_

 

I don't know the answer to the question, but having owned both the MKIII and Jade, the Jade was clearly in another league.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Mine does not have a problem with power at all. I have mine sitting at about 10:00 on the dial and I keep the volume in Foobar about 65% and it is still pretty loud. And that is with my 600 ohm Beyers!


----------



## Hz_joe

I belive LD MK III power rate is correct. Difference designer have it own design Pilosophy. Some Designer try to squeeze more power but I need best sound with resonable output. e.g most of China designer drive Single end 845 output more than 28W but I design it output at 22W only. Why ? When 845 drive to 28W. It has grid current flow and become class A2. I keep it no Grid current & work in Class A1 but less power with better sound. I tested difference headphone and check specification of headphone. Most of Headphone no need more than 100mW except very low sensitive type. Most of Cans sensitive is more than 100db/mW. We can compare speakers systems. Most of Speakers sensitive is less than 89db/W. It only need 35W ~ 50W tube amps to drive it. Only some speakers lower than 84db/W need more than 100W to drive it. High sensitive speakers > 100db/W only need to drive by small SE tube amp like 2A3/300B. 100db/w compare with 100db/mw : If 100db/W need 8W to drive it. 100db/mW need only 1/1000 power to drive it. It mean 8mW is good enough for 100db/mW sensitive cans. So 20 ~ 30mW is good enough for 100db/mw Cans.


----------



## Skylab

Exactly - I often find that lower-gain settings on SS sound better than higher gain ones. Maybe one reason the Jade sounds so good is that it isn't trying to have the ability to deliver power it doesn't need.


----------



## theScribe

The more I read about the Jade the more I'm fascinated by the engineering of it.


----------



## mbd2884

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The more I read about the Jade the more I'm fascinated by the engineering of it._

 

Same


----------



## sfmatt

Thank you very much for the reply. On these forums many people believe that power is everything and it's enlightening to read your explanation to the contrary.

 Can't wait to receive mine which I believe you used for the photos on your website


----------



## oghoter

Update on using the Sony SRS-Z500 active speakers with the Jade. 
 Sounds better - by far - than i have ever heard these speakers before.
 Seeing advice on the net, I placed the speakers a bit above ear height Works well - better than before. Worth investigating for other desktop speakers too?
 ø


----------



## oghoter

For example, Wigwam - the overlooked 70s Finland group - is just glorious through the Jade, like "Never turn you in". 
 ø


----------



## PaulyT

Umm.... maybe missing something here, but why would you use active speakers (which means they have a built-in amp) with the Jade? Or are you just bypassing the built-in amp?


----------



## oghoter

Because letting the Jade feed the chain clearly makes for an improvement. My experience is, the more I can turn down the other amps in the chain (in my case, the Korg Mr1 and other portable preamps), and the active speakers amp, and let the Jade carry the load - the better the sound. The difference is not subtle - the sound is more human, "meaty", layered and dimensional. When I first got the Jade I worried that the sound was a bit thin and hollow. No worries now, after ca 300 hours burn-in.


----------



## Skylab

In that case the Jade would be serving as kind of a tube buffer mostly - but tubes can make just about anything sound better


----------



## oghoter

Listening note: Leon Russell: Carney passes the "glorious" test too. Comparing the small Sony active speakers to my Senn hd600, the 600s are better, more in the native zone of the Jade. But not by far. Its ability to drive small speakers is remarkable too.


----------



## oghoter

Skylab, grateful for your intervention. Your review was important for my buying the Jade in the first place. However I doubt what I hear is a "buffer effect mostly". I have gone through these - through various systems. I think, instead, what i hear is a real "pro" for the Jade. Probably, other headphone amps serve such speakers and phones equally well - these are just my impressions. For me, the combination of the Sony speakers ca 10 cm above my ears and the Jade, with a good source, is just better than anything i've heard before.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I did not explain myself very well. If isn't the effect of the buffering that improves the sound - it is the sonic imprint of a nice tube stage that does (IMO). If you allow the tubes to provide the gain, and not the preamp built into the powered speakers, I'm sure that is an improvement.


----------



## oghoter

I very much agree with you, Skylab. I use an Aesthetix Io preamp for my main rig - talk about tubes. Could we get an Otl and Set (like) amp for 400 or so watts, or is this a pipe dream... I have asked Audiotailor. Graaf gave up, it seems.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you very much for the reply. On these forums many people believe that power is everything and it's enlightening to read your explanation to the contrary.

 Can't wait to receive mine which I believe you used for the photos on your website 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

All Jade order before last Sunday will be send out by EMS tomorrow from HongKong. Will be at your hand end of this week.


----------



## theScribe

Quick question guys, I was just curious what "level" of DAC that would match well to the Audiotailor Jade?

 I been using a Headroom MicroDAC, is that on the same level (as opposed to something like a DAC1) as the Jade?

 I may not want the answer to this question as it may bite me with the upgrade bug again, lol. 

 -JC


----------



## sfmatt

I received my Jade this morning, thank you Joseph.
 It was really well packaged, took a little while to get everything out of the box. It's bigger than I thought but not too big either.
 I spent a couple of hours listening to it and I'm in love big time! More later...


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Quick question guys, I was just curious what "level" of DAC that would match well to the Audiotailor Jade?

 I been using a Headroom MicroDAC, is that on the same level (as opposed to something like a DAC1) as the Jade?

 I may not want the answer to this question as it may bite me with the upgrade bug again, lol. 

 -JC_

 

The MicroDac has excellent specs as long as:
 1) you don't use USB to connect your computer to it
 2) the volume of your OS and audio app is close to the max

 There's no reason it would not mate perfectly with the Jade.

 The DAC1 is supposed to be an excellent dac+amp combo but for a DAC alone there's no reason to spend this kind of money nowadays. Top DACs built on CS4892, AD1852, PCM1794/1798 and the likes can be had for less than $300 as the MicroDAC and many others prove. My $0.02: save your money for something else.


----------



## theScribe

Then that begs the question. Those people in the high end forum spending upwards of $2000+ on DACs and transports, how much better can a chip decode audio anyways?

 I can understand the spending on AMPs, but DACs... Hmm.

 -JC


----------



## Skylab

It's the analog output stage, not the DAC chip, that is the big deal with better DACs.


----------



## tom hankins

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's the analog output stage, not the DAC chip, that is the big deal with better DACs._

 

PSU is also big.


----------



## theScribe

well i'm always willing to learn. PSU gives a DAC more output power, understandable, but what is the magic/pixie dust in the analog output stage of a DAC that prices it at a premium if they all use the same chips?


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well i'm always willing to learn. PSU gives a DAC more output power, understandable, but what is the magic/pixie dust in the analog output stage of a DAC that prices it at a premium if they all use the same chips?_

 

I don't know the technical stuff, but if we're only going by the specs of the DAC chip itself, non of us would have a external dac as the Asus Essence STX(soundcard that costs $200) has the best dac chip out of every external dac on head-fi.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well i'm always willing to learn. PSU gives a DAC more output power, understandable, but what is the magic/pixie dust in the analog output stage of a DAC that prices it at a premium if they all use the same chips?_

 

The analog output stage has nothing to do with the chip. It is what happens AFTER the chip, between the chip and the RCA outputs.


----------



## Ricey20

k I got my Jade. I got the new one with a few upgrades. Neutrik jacks, alps volume, Infinite coupling cap (supposedly increases detail). So far, it is SURPRISINGLY good. It sounds great and the build quality seems good too. Need to find a better 6AS7 tube (where do you guys buy the Chatham from) and currently using a NOS 12BZ7 leftover from my GES 
 For $367 total it seems like a no brainer to me. This thing is just too good for the price.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Ricey, that would have been a nice upgrade to get the Neutrik jacks. I wish I had gotten that, but at the same time mine was $67 cheaper 

 For the 6AS7 tube, there are actually some up for sale in the FS forum on this very site. Sky recommends the RCA Grey plate. I myself purchased a NOS Tungsol and think it sounds very good. I do think you need to upgrade those tubes before seeing the full potential of the Jade.


----------



## Ricey20

I already think it sounds great, so maybe I'll have to try buying some tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So far I don't think I've heard my sextetts sound this good. Can't wait for the HF-2


----------



## Skylab

I actually like the Tung-Sol (or Chatham, same thing) 6AS7G's better than the RCA's, but the RCA's are very good, and they are cheap, and easy to get.


----------



## sfmatt

I've not be very lucky so far with my tubes. I didn't try the Chinese ones and went straight for a RCA 6AS7G and a modern Tung-Sol 12AX7. Unbelievable sound, very tight but low-reaching bass, excellent mids and cristalline highs. After around 5 hours the sound became more liquid and an hour later totally distorted with no power (no difference between high and low gain, average volume even when pushed to the max).
 Bad luck then, let's try another RCA (I bought 3 different ones from late 50s and early 60s). Also excellent (not as good as the first one though, somewhat softer). That one lasted around 3 hours before becoming wobbly as well.

 Now I am wondering:
 1) Am I doing something wrong with the amp?
 The way I use it: my computer is on, I turn the amp on, plug the headphones, wait for one minute or so and launch foobar.
 2) Have I been really unlucky with the tubes? Ebay seller has 100% reputation but warned that the tubes were "stored loose and looking a bit tired after many years of storage". Still, 2 in a row in the exact same conditions...
 3) Could there be a problem with my amp? I asked for a 120/240V version, perhaps there's a difference with the standard power supply that is causing it? Also there was a small bump on one of the corners of the amp, could it have been damaged during shipping?
 4) Could it be that the Tung-Sol 12AX7 is too high gain for the amp? I also have a NOS Amperex 5751 which is not as demanding, perhaps I should try that or the original Chinese input tube.

 Unless some of you can suggest a better option, I'll try the original Chinese power tube with the Tung-Sol 12AX7 and see if it lasts more than a few hours.

 BTW, just curious: what's the normal lifespan of a tube?


----------



## Ricey20

a tube should last years. I've never heard of tubes sounding good for only 3-5 hours then just dying off like that. I wonder if your Jade unit might be faulty?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've not be very lucky so far with my tubes. I didn't try the Chinese ones and went straight for a RCA 6AS7G and a modern Tung-Sol 12AX7. Unbelievable sound, very tight but low-reaching bass, excellent mids and cristalline highs. After around 5 hours the sound became more liquid and an hour later totally distorted with no power (no difference between high and low gain, average volume even when pushed to the max).
 Bad luck then, let's try another RCA (I bought 3 different ones from late 50s and early 60s). Also excellent (not as good as the first one though, somewhat softer). That one lasted around 3 hours before becoming wobbly as well.

 Now I am wondering:
 1) Am I doing something wrong with the amp?
 The way I use it: my computer is on, I turn the amp on, plug the headphones, wait for one minute or so and launch foobar.
 2) Have I been really unlucky with the tubes? Ebay seller has 100% reputation but warned that the tubes were "stored loose and looking a bit tired after many years of storage". Still, 2 in a row in the exact same conditions...
 3) Could there be a problem with my amp? I asked for a 120/240V version, perhaps there's a difference with the standard power supply that is causing it? Also there was a small bump on one of the corners of the amp, could it have been damaged during shipping?
 4) Could it be that the Tung-Sol 12AX7 is too high gain for the amp? I also have a NOS Amperex 5751 which is not as demanding, perhaps I should try that or the original Chinese input tube.

 Unless some of you can suggest a better option, I'll try the original Chinese power tube with the Tung-Sol 12AX7 and see if it lasts more than a few hours.

 BTW, just curious: what's the normal lifespan of a tube?_

 

 Please check Voltage selector switch in right position. If you line voltage is 230V but voltage selector in 120V position will cause serious problem. Repalce tube with stock tubes and test it. Still have problem ? contact me , I will send a New PCB or even a New Jade to you.


----------



## sfmatt

Thanks Joseph,

 I realised that I don't have a voltage switch at the back of my amp, just a little plastic cover under the plug for the fuse. Also there's a small sticker with "AC 117VX2/1A 50^60Hz" on it. Looks like I don't have a dual voltage version after all.
 I'm now running the stock tubes, the SQ is very good but a clear notch down from the RCA/Tung-Sol combo. The most noticeable difference is the lost of weight in the sound, it's very light in comparison. The bass feels muffled and there's much less dynamism. Not bad, but nothing special either. Quite a letdown compared the RCA/Tung-Sol. Trying various combinations, the Chinese power tube took the bass away and the input tube made the presentation lifeless. Anyway I'll leave the stock tubes for now.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Joseph,

 I realised that I don't have a voltage switch at the back of my amp, just a little plastic cover under the plug for the fuse. Also there's a small sticker with "AC 117VX2/1A 50^60Hz" on it. Looks like I don't have a dual voltage version after all.
 I'm now running the stock tubes, the SQ is very good but a clear notch down from the RCA/Tung-Sol combo. The most noticeable difference is the lost of weight in the sound, it's very light in comparison. The bass feels muffled and there's much less dynamism. Not bad, but nothing special either. Quite a letdown compared the RCA/Tung-Sol. Trying various combinations, the Chinese power tube took the bass away and the input tube made the presentation lifeless. Anyway I'll leave the stock tubes for now._

 

It seem to be something wrong ! Are you Main Voltage 230V ? Can you take a Photo of back panel for me to check it. It seem to be connect in 117V inside. It will have problem. Please don't use it other wise will have damage it.


----------



## Skylab

So with the stock tubes you can leave it on for a long time with no problems, but the upgraded tubes eventually the sound degrades? That would be very odd.

 My review unit did not even come with any tubes (which was not a problem since I have lots). But I never had any issues like that.

 Try using the RCA 6AS7G's with the stock input tube first, and then with the Ameprex 5751 you have and see what happens.


----------



## bodine1231

Wow,very good review!


----------



## sfmatt

Skylab: I have only a couple of hours on the stock tubes yet, I'll let you know as soon as I pass the 5-10 hours mark. In addition to the stock tube I have one RCA and a Chatham left so I'll play it safe before using them, especially the Chatham.
 I have a side question for you if you don't mind: seems Svetlana is the only modern 6AS7G brand on the market. How do they compare with NOS RCAs (since they are even easier to get and at the same price if not cheaper)?

 Joseph: I ordered a dual voltage version but looks like I didn't get one. The power section on the back of my amp looks exactly like the one on your web page (here: ANTIQUE SOUNDLAB). I'll take a picture as soon as I can but I don't think there's a voltage problem, I live in the US and the sticker at the back of my amp says 117V.


----------



## Trapper32

Has anyone tried the 12au7's with this amp..and has anyone tried the Senns "balanced" cable that can be bought with the Jade. Wondering how they would sound...


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab: I have only a couple of hours on the stock tubes yet, I'll let you know as soon as I pass the 5-10 hours mark. In addition to the stock tube I have one RCA and a Chatham left so I'll play it safe before using them, especially the Chatham.
 I have a side question for you if you don't mind: seems Svetlana is the only modern 6AS7G brand on the market. How do they compare with NOS RCAs (since they are even easier to get and at the same price if not cheaper)?

 Joseph: I ordered a dual voltage version but looks like I didn't get one. The power section on the back of my amp looks exactly like the one on your web page (here: ANTIQUE SOUNDLAB). I'll take a picture as soon as I can but I don't think there's a voltage problem, I live in the US and the sticker at the back of my amp says 117V._

 

 It seem to be not possible to get wrong Voltage if you live in USA ! It can rewire easily inside if you want convert to 230V. We can refund option cost to you. Our Engineer misunderstood you need dual section transformer for easily convert to 230V use and don't have a selector switch. I'm sorry for this matter. Please feel free to contact me if you need replace it with a 117/234 Selectabler version.


----------



## alexboo12

just got mine, driving akg271mkII and HD650. So far so good.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab: I have only a couple of hours on the stock tubes yet, I'll let you know as soon as I pass the 5-10 hours mark. In addition to the stock tube I have one RCA and a Chatham left so I'll play it safe before using them, especially the Chatham.
 I have a side question for you if you don't mind: seems Svetlana is the only modern 6AS7G brand on the market. How do they compare with NOS RCAs (since they are even easier to get and at the same price if not cheaper)?_

 

The Russian equivalent to the 6AS7G, the 6N13S, is a decent tube, but IMO not as good as the RCA. The Svetlana is probably the best of the 6N13S.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried the 12au7's with this amp..and has anyone tried the Senns "balanced" cable that can be bought with the Jade. Wondering how they would sound..._

 

I'm not sure the 12AU7 would be a good idea. The 12AX7 is generally noted to be the better sounding of the two tubes overall, and the 12AU7 is sufficiently different from the 12AX7 that interchanging them may not be a good idea.

 If you want to try some other tubes, first try a 5751. If you have already tried that, try a black-plate Sylvania 12AT7. The 12AT7 can be safely used in 12AX7 circuits, and some people *love* them - also the Brimar/Mullard equivalent to the 12AT7 which is the CV4024.


----------



## Ricey20

So far I've burnt in the Jade for near 100 hours and even with the stock chinese tubes, this amp is really good. For the promo price of $299 for stock, maybe this is a semi-giant killer. Have some Chatham & RCA 6AS7s and TS 5998s coming, as well as raytheon 5751 windmills, can't wait to replace these chinese tubes


----------



## Skylab

Nice! You went straight to some very nice tubes


----------



## Ricey20

Yea, considering how good it sounded with the Chinese tubes, I got really curious on what this thing can do. Which is BAD for the wallet, but it's the head-fi way


----------



## oghoter

Re: balanced cable for Senn 600 - I've used this for a month now, with the Jade, and very much like what I hear, wider and more spacious sound compared to the stock cable. You can get better balanced cables of course, but for usd 30 it is a great value. My only complaint: I sometimes have to turn the plugs a bit, to get contact, or even take them out and insert them again (haven't found the reason, the soldering in the plugs seems ok).


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oghoter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Re: balanced cable for Senn 600 - I've used this for a month now, with the Jade, and very much like what I hear, wider and more spacious sound compared to the stock cable. You can get better balanced cables of course, but for usd 30 it is a great value. My only complaint: I sometimes have to turn the plugs a bit, to get contact, or even take them out and insert them again (haven't found the reason, the soldering in the plugs seems ok)._

 

US$30 is only for order together with Jade , GK1............... or any other audiotailor amplifiers.


----------



## Trapper32

Thanks Skylab and oghoter for the tube recommendations and cable comments....


----------



## alexboo12

So far so good, not the last word in detail compare to my stello but i actually do enjoy Jade more at the moment. It gives me a bit more meat on those blusey tune.
 Cheers,
 AP


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *alexboo12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far so good, not the last word in detail compare to my stello but i actually do enjoy Jade more at the moment. It gives me a bit more meat on those blusey tune.
 Cheers,
 AP_

 

What tubes are you using the Jade with?


----------



## sfmatt

False alarm. It turns out the RCA 6AS7Gs were all faulty, I tried the last one and it was DOA. Lots of bad luck (3 out of 3!) but thankfully I paid less than $10 for each.

 I've had the stock tubes pass the 10 hours mark and I've been listening to the Amperex 5751 / Chatham combo for the last 15 hours. It's an excellent combo but slightly too tubey for my HD650. The first RCA tube I tried has more authority than the Chatham and there was more difference between the 2 outputs, one remaining tubey but the other was very much SS-like. That said I'm madly in love with the SQ of the Jade as it is.


----------



## Ricey20

anyone try Sylvania 6AS7GAs with the Jade?


----------



## moonboy403

I only had experience with the GEC 6AS7GA and TS 5998. Both of them were very good but there wasn't a huge difference between them. 

 For the driver tube, I tried Raytheon, Sylvania, and GE 5 Star 5751 and I liked the Sylvania the best with its lush midrange and liveliness while the Raytheon had a better soundstage both in terms of width and depth.


----------



## Ricey20

using a RCA JAN 6AS7, much better than the chinese tube. Still waiting for my raytheon 5751s, TS, and chatham


----------



## Skylab

I prefer the Sylvania 6AS7G over the 6AS7GA.


----------



## alexboo12

Moonboy, I am still using the OEM tube. Will play around a bit later later.

 BTW, Thank heaps Skylab.
 Cheers,
 AP


----------



## burgunder

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes ! It is balanced Sennheiser cable. It is by 2 core Teflon + Shielding x 2 , each channel with + wire & - wire & shielding. It is very good seperation between 2 channel. It is special offer to Audiotailor users. It can use on Jade , GK1-J , GK1-Delux and later models with same topology as Jade._

 

So basically any headphone can be driven balanced out of the Jade?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *burgunder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So basically any headphone can be driven balanced out of the Jade?_

 

Yes ! But most of Cans don't have sockets like HD600/650. It need modify Cans. I'm sourcing for K702 plug now. May be can supply Cable for K702 later. This cable not only can use on Jade but also on most of our Headphone amplifiers like GK1-Delux , GK1-J , HeadMonitor1/2 (Newest version only).


----------



## Trapper32

Moonboy403...Did you get rid of your Jade????


----------



## Skylab

Moonboy had my Jade for a while, but I have it back now


----------



## moonboy403

I had the opportunity of upgrading to the Singlepower Extreme and I bit on it.


----------



## Trapper32

I probably would have to...I can resist anything but temptation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had the opportunity of upgrading to the Singlepower Extreme and I bit on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## googlephone

What is the current pricing on a new unit and options? Really interested in getting one to mate with my new used HD-650's.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the current pricing on a new unit and options? Really interested in getting one to mate with my new used HD-650's._

 

 Thank for your order very much. We will process your order soon. Try to ship out around 4 days.


----------



## Ricey20

Received my raytheons. Going from the chinese 6AS7 to RCA made a small difference but going from the chinese 12AX7 to raytheon made a huge difference. Detail is much better as is soundstage and the bass seems better controlled while highs seem a bit sweeter and less harsh. Not to mention there's less background hum


----------



## pearljam5000

Change your avatar,it's too sexy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the current pricing on a new unit and options? Really interested in getting one to mate with my new used HD-650's._


----------



## googlephone

I couldn't help myself!! It really is a great way to describe this hobby. Hopefully when I get my Jade it will be like getting silicone enhancements.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't help myself!! It really is a great way to describe this hobby. Hopefully when I get my Jade it will be like getting silicone enhancements._

 

Your Jade just send from China factory to HK office tonight. It will send out from Hong Kong office tomorrow. It take around 3 ~ 4 days on shipping. Enjoy your new Jade


----------



## googlephone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your Jade just send from China factory to HK office tonight. It will send out from Hong Kong office tomorrow. It take around 3 ~ 4 days on shipping. Enjoy your new Jade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Wow that was quick considering I added all the options!!! I can't wait!! I think I just got and Audio Chub 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thx again for the update


----------



## alainT

im interested by this amps and email audiotailor.
 I'll buy soon hd 600 or hd 650 (i have hesitations), it seems they are fine with the jade and headmonitor.


----------



## googlephone

Reading on other thread that my HD650's are real power hogs. Most people are saying they need 300mw at 300 ohms. Is this true? The jade specs are:

 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

 Output Power 

 Plate Cathode 

 300 Ohm 

 53mw 100mW 

 15Hz ~ 37Khz


 And a little confusing to me It appears the best I can do at 300 ohms is 100mw. Is this enough? I find my current setup lacking so hoping I made the right choice with the Jade. Can others comment with this combo?

 thx


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading on other thread that my HD650's are real power hogs. Most people are saying they need 300mw at 300 ohms. Is this true? The jade specs are:

 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

 Output Power 

 Plate Cathode 

 300 Ohm 

 53mw 100mW 

 15Hz ~ 37Khz


 And a little confusing to me It appears the best I can do at 300 ohms is 100mw. Is this enough? I find my current setup lacking so hoping I made the right choice with the Jade. Can others comment with this combo?

 thx_

 

Don't worry about power of Jade especially drive in balance mode. 

 HD600 seisitive is 97db/mw - 100mW can output more than 116db sound level. I don't think you can listening long time in 116db. Balance mode can get almost 3 ~4 time output power. It will have around 300mW drive from Jade by balance cable. 

 I'm sorry ! Factory made a mistake, forget to pack balance cable in Box but our HK staff found such problem & hold Jade not to send out. Factory will send a Balance cable to Hong Kong today. Jade & balance cable will send out on monday.


----------



## googlephone

Quote:


 I'm sorry ! Factory made a mistake, forget to pack balance cable in Box but our HK staff found such problem & hold Jade not to send out. Factory will send a Balance cable to Hong Kong today. Jade & balance cable will send out on monday. 
 

Any updates on the shipping? Just getting anxious about the new toy


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any updates on the shipping? Just getting anxious about the new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It may be will arrive your hand day after tomorrow.


----------



## googlephone

Hz joe

 I hope this does not come out sounding too negative, but the first few hours with the Jade has not been very enjoyable. Some of my story does not all fall on you, but some of it does. So here it goes:

 I receive the amp and unpack it. Everything looks good. I go to install an RCA 6AS7 Black top that I purchased and a Telefunken 12ax7. Connect up all my wires and power up the bad boy. Uh oh no sound. I check my cables and still nothing. I then notice the RCA 6as7 is not lighting up. So I install the stock tube and bam we have music. Life is good. I then connect up the balanced cables and still life is good. I then try to listen to the two headphone outputs to see what the difference is and as I'm pulling out one of the 1/4 adapters from the amp the end breaks off. The other one did pull out fine. So I spend 1/2 hour removing the tip that broke off inside the headphone jack. Not a fun task, but doable. I figure oh well I'll just go down to the local electronics store and pick up a new set of headphone jacks and solder them one, no biggee. Well I go to disconnect the cables from the headphones and the connector falls apart. I'm thinking this is not my day. Somebody does not want me to enjoy this new setup. Anyways the headphone cables are pretty much shot. Not sure if I'm just that unlucky, but these seem to be a bit fragile. I hope the quality of the cables is no reflection on the amp. Needless to say my first few hours has not been very pleasant with this setup. I hope you can assist with the cables. I'll have to contact the seller of the tube to see if I can resolve that problem. 

 On a positive note the amp seems to be pretty decent. Still very early to tell due to the short break in time and the slightly noisy stock tube. At least I hope it is just the stock tube causing the problem. I'll follow up once I get another 6as7.


----------



## moonboy403

The Jade was dead silent with no noise or any hint of hiss but I never tried the stock tubes.


----------



## googlephone

I'm leaning towards the stock tubes being the culprit for the noise. Not excessive but just noticeable.


----------



## googlephone

By the way I'm looking for a new tube. I'm leaning toward the Tung-Sol 5998. I'm currently using the Telefunken 12ax7 and stock 6as7. Any recommendations???


----------



## moonboy403

TS5998 and GEC 6AS7 are the usual suspects. 

 For the driver tube, you might wanna look into the 5751 variants such as the NOS Sylvania, Raytheon, GE 5 Star are pretty much at the top...


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way I'm looking for a new tube. I'm leaning toward the Tung-Sol 5998. I'm currently using the Telefunken 12ax7 and stock 6as7. Any recommendations???_

 

You can get NOS 5998's for $25 here: Vacuum Tubes Radio Tubes - 5,000 different tubes in stock - Over 10 million tubes!

 People pay 2x that for used 5998's on EBay all the time. Always surprises me.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hz joe

 I hope this does not come out sounding too negative, but the first few hours with the Jade has not been very enjoyable. Some of my story does not all fall on you, but some of it does. So here it goes:

 I receive the amp and unpack it. Everything looks good. I go to install an RCA 6AS7 Black top that I purchased and a Telefunken 12ax7. Connect up all my wires and power up the bad boy. Uh oh no sound. I check my cables and still nothing. I then notice the RCA 6as7 is not lighting up. So I install the stock tube and bam we have music. Life is good. I then connect up the balanced cables and still life is good. I then try to listen to the two headphone outputs to see what the difference is and as I'm pulling out one of the 1/4 adapters from the amp the end breaks off. The other one did pull out fine. So I spend 1/2 hour removing the tip that broke off inside the headphone jack. Not a fun task, but doable. I figure oh well I'll just go down to the local electronics store and pick up a new set of headphone jacks and solder them one, no biggee. Well I go to disconnect the cables from the headphones and the connector falls apart. I'm thinking this is not my day. Somebody does not want me to enjoy this new setup. Anyways the headphone cables are pretty much shot. Not sure if I'm just that unlucky, but these seem to be a bit fragile. I hope the quality of the cables is no reflection on the amp. Needless to say my first few hours has not been very pleasant with this setup. I hope you can assist with the cables. I'll have to contact the seller of the tube to see if I can resolve that problem. 

 On a positive note the amp seems to be pretty decent. Still very early to tell due to the short break in time and the slightly noisy stock tube. At least I hope it is just the stock tube causing the problem. I'll follow up once I get another 6as7._

 

 Your Jade had upgrade to Neutrik Jack ! I don't know why cause such problem. Please feel free to email me if you need any help. sales@audiotailor.com


----------



## Hz_joe

Jade & most of our products will have a New upgrade option soon : 

 LDR attenuator - a Photo coupler attenuator , no noise , tight matching between channel. (0.5db) , No sound remain when lower down to lower level. (Most of LDR attenuator can not lower volumn to Zero). Unfortunately it is not very cheap. LDR is expensive & need buy thousand Pcs to matching. Matching consum much time. We can matching less than 10 Sets a days now. I'm try to developt a equietment to matching it more quickly. It seem to be can matching by a equiement simulair as Transistor curve tracer.


----------



## googlephone

Quote:


 Jade & most of our products will have a New upgrade option soon :

 LDR attenuator - a Photo coupler attenuator , no noise , tight matching between channel. (0.5db) , No sound remain when lower down to lower level. (Most of LDR attenuator can not lower volumn to Zero). Unfortunately it is not very cheap. LDR is expensive & need buy thousand Pcs to matching. Matching consum much time. We can matching less than 10 Sets a days now. I'm try to developt a equietment to matching it more quickly. It seem to be can matching by a equiement simulair as Transistor curve tracer. 
 

Any support for us early adopters?


----------



## jfourc

I am wondering what upgrades people suggest I get for the Jade.

 There is the Neutrik Jack, the MIT and Infinite coupling caps, Alps volume, and composite teflon sockets. Also does anyone have experience with the amp balanced?

 I have Sennheiser HD 650s and Grado HF-2s on the way.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any support for us early adopters?_

 

Yes, good question. I am also wondering the same thing.


----------



## googlephone

Quote:


 I am wondering what upgrades people suggest I get for the Jade.

 There is the Neutrik Jack, the MIT and Infinite coupling caps, Alps volume, and composite teflon sockets. Also does anyone have experience with the amp balanced?

 I have Sennheiser HD 650s and Grado HF-2s on the way. 
 

Because the economical price for the stock amp and upgrades I just threw the book at it and got them all. I really can't tell how much of an improvement will be made by each, but if you are asking now you will always wonder. I played it safe and just get em all. 

 As far as the balanced performance, all I can say is I miss it. I only got to enjoy them for a short amount of time, but there was a definite improvement from single. I don't have all the catchy phrases, but I would bet that this made more of a difference than all the other upgrades combined. Plus for $30 how can you not. Anxiously waiting on my replacement set!!!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because the economical price for the stock amp and upgrades I just threw the book at it and got them all. I really can't tell how much of an improvement will be made by each, but if you are asking now you will always wonder. I played it safe and just get em all. 

 As far as the balanced performance, all I can say is I miss it. I only got to enjoy them for a short amount of time, but there was a definite improvement from single. I don't have all the catchy phrases, but I would bet that this made more of a difference than all the other upgrades combined. Plus for $30 how can you not. Anxiously waiting on my replacement set!!!_

 

 Upgrade Balance cable will be available soon. 

 Neutrik 6.35 Jack will comming soon. Option cost US$15


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because the economical price for the stock amp and upgrades I just threw the book at it and got them all. I really can't tell how much of an improvement will be made by each, but if you are asking now you will always wonder. I played it safe and just get em all. 

 As far as the balanced performance, all I can say is I miss it. I only got to enjoy them for a short amount of time, but there was a definite improvement from single. I don't have all the catchy phrases, but I would bet that this made more of a difference than all the other upgrades combined. Plus for $30 how can you not. Anxiously waiting on my replacement set!!!_

 

Thanks for the help Googlephone. I think I might just max out the amp if I decide on purchasing it, but skip out on getting it balanced. I know balanced sounds better and everything, but that just opens up a can of very pricey worms. 

 Does anyone have any direct experience with the amp and Grados? Not that I don't trust you Joe, but I am interested in some other's impressions.


----------



## moonboy403

Just curious, how much would a maxxed out Jade cost?


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just curious, how much would a maxxed out Jade cost?_

 

300 +12 (neutrik jack) + 40 (Infinite coupling cap) + 15 (Alps 27 mm volume) +10 (composite teflon sockets) + 3% Paypal fee = 388.31

 Still pretty damn cheap if it's as good as people say it is.


----------



## moonboy403

If you're going to get the Jade, you should start looking for tubes on ebay.

 The GEC 6AS7G is especially hard to come by.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you're going to get the Jade, you should start looking for tubes on ebay.

 The GEC 6AS7G is especially hard to come by._

 

Well, right now I'm not yet decided on the Jade. I'm also looking at the Darkvoice 337 and Decware CSP-2, which are much more expensive... I currently own a Darkvoice 336SE so I'm wondering if I want a small or big upgrade. Also, I have an Grado HF-2 on the way, and I am having some trouble deciding on finding an amp that can drive both that headphone and my high impedance HD 650s well.

 I already have an RCA 6AS7G grey plate and Tung Sol 5998. How does the GEC compare to these two? I would also need to buy some input tubes, but I'm going to hold off on the search until I decide on what amp I want.


----------



## moonboy403

To quote Ricey20, "Got GEC 6AS7Gs now, they were incredibly expensive but worth the price. It just makes piano sound so realistic. It has an airy and balanced sound and it does something sweet with highs and mids. Detail seems to be on par with the Chatham and soundstage seems better. The Chathams sounded a bit bright to me but the GECs don't. The bass is a bit less than 5998s and doesn't sound as heavy as the 5998s, but it just does many things right to me. I can see why Skylab likes then..."

 Skylab and I both have the same impression of it(more or less).


----------



## oghoter

The Jade needed 2-300 hours of burn-in, in my case at least. Before 50-70 hours it sounds a bit hollow and cold. A change of the tubes to GEC and Telefunken NOS also helped. I have tested the Jade with balanced cable to Senn 600, compared to a tube Ming Da mc34a amp in 18 watt triode mode and Aurum Cantus Leisure 2e speakers. The benefits of triode were not very obvious. I mainly felt that the Jade did what the Ming Da did well (or not much worse), and then quite a bit more - a larger, more precise and lively soundscape, including a flatter and wider frequency range. Even if the mc34a got a rave review a year or so ago, in an audio journal here in Norway.


----------



## jfourc

Thanks oghoter and moonboy.

 If I go balanced, does it cost extra, and do I lose the single headphone output then?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks oghoter and moonboy.

 If I go balanced, does it cost extra, and do I lose the single headphone output then?_

 

No ! Jade already have balance function but only need a special cable to use both Jack only. 6.35mm output at front - One is positive phase other is negative. We supply balance cable for HD600/650 now. Ofcourse other cans is possible if you willing to modify your cans.


----------



## jfourc

How does the Jade sound balanced? Is it warmer or more neutral?


----------



## googlephone

Hz_Joe

 Looking further at the balanced and single ended capabilities of the Jade. I think this may be good option for the amp. Neutrik makes a combo female jack.












Neutrik - Audio - Combo Series - NCJ6FI-S-0

 It will allow you to use both connectors for each jack. I'm considering using these for my Jade, but would be very interested in getting just the front face plate without the 1/4" headphone jacks drilled out.


----------



## Mofferino

I received a power chord that doesn't fit European electrical sockets. Do you guys know where to get a high-quality chord (EU standard) that goes with the Jade?


----------



## Calypso

If the Jade has an IEC socket, you can get a cable at any computer store.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Calypso* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the Jade has an IEC socket, you can get a cable at any computer store._

 


 Yes ! IEC power socket is standard on Jade now.


----------



## Mofferino

Jesus Christ. Apparently a power chord is not just a power chord. I turned on the jade and was checking my email (no music playing) and after 2-3 minutes the entire tube was suddenly glowing red and making a loud noise!

 I quickly turned off the Jade and now I'm praying that nothing is broken.....


----------



## googlephone

What position is the voltage selected to for next to the power switch? Is it set correct? Is this the first time you powered it up?


----------



## Mofferino

The 6N5PJ is dead. I guess it overheated... or more likely exploded 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The 12AX7 is still glowing though.

 Yes, this was my first time powering it up. Man I hope it's just the tube and not the entire amp.

 Both the China power chord that came with the Jade and the EU one I used are both 10A 250V~


----------



## googlephone

Was the voltage for the power supply selected to 120v or 240v??


----------



## Mofferino

What to you mean _selected_? I just plugged the power chord into the wall socket and into the Jade.


----------



## Skylab

The good news is you would have wanted to replace the tubes anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so as long as its just the tubes you are OK. Get a new 6AS7G and try again.


----------



## Mofferino

Giving the amp to much juice can't be good. I'm on my knees praying! Still trying to figure out what went wrong though. What kind of power chord am I suppose to be using?

 Well, Skylab. Guess I should try to look on the bright side. I haven't bought tubes before so say I wanted one of those Chatham 6AS7G. Where would I look?


----------



## googlephone

Quote:


 What to you mean selected? I just plugged the power chord into the wall socket and into the Jade. 
 

My apologies, I thought there was a voltage selector switch on the back. Mine does have a sticker that says 60hz 120v. For some reason I remembered it having a switch, but it doesn't. Must be set inside the amplifier and not external. 

 On a side note for the rest of the Jade users. Has anyone tried their amp with the HD800? I'm considering upgrading my phones and wondering how the two paired up.


----------



## Mofferino

googlephone:

 I see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got me a little confused. Thanks for helping out though. My sticker says 230V/1A 50Hz-60Hz. What does that mean in terms of choosing a power chord? There is no way I'm making the same mistake twice. No more fireballs.


----------



## Mofferino

By the way...

 If someone could please point me in the right direction in terms of buying a new tube for my Jade? I find it very confusing to say the least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If someone could provide me with a link so that all I have to do is press "BUY" I would be most grateful. Price is not an issue.. by now I just want my Jade up and running 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys.


----------



## Skylab

Mofferino, since you are in Denmark, maybe this UK seller would work best : Home, Langrex

 I have bought a few tubes from them with good results, and I know they stock 6AS7G's (not sure what kind though).


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If someone could please point me in the right direction in terms of buying a new tube for my Jade?_

 

You might want to try with a cheap Svetlana 6N13S (= 6AS7G) next. See Dantimax (-> 6AS7G, 6080).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My sticker says 230V/1A 50Hz-60Hz. What does that mean in terms of choosing a power chord?_

 

It says that pretty much any computer etc. power cord is just fine, assuming that you can plug it in, of course, and that it is not defective.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Giving the amp to much juice can't be good._

 

A power cord will not magically pump too much current into your amp. It is the amp that draws the current.


----------



## Mofferino

Thanks guys. Very much appreciated.

 Don't wanna blow up an expensive tube, so Im getting the cheap Svetlana to do a test with. If everything is still working as it should, then I'll go for the good stuff.

 I'll return with an update as soon as I receive the new tube.

 Skylap:

 A quick question for you. I just read your review again and you mention that on the early version of the Jade, the tube socket was mounted too close to the PCB. When a tube is fully inserted how far is the base suppose to be from the surface of the amp? When I insert the stock tube there is a gab of 2 mm (0.0787 inches) between base and amp surface.


----------



## Skylab

What you are worried about is where the tube is in relation to the surface of the socket, not the amp. It should be pretty close to flush with the socket top.


----------



## Mofferino

The top of the white socket is level with the amp's surface. However as mentioned there's approx. 2mm of exposed pins between the socket and the base of the tube. For a tube to be fully inserted I'm assuming no pins should be that visible? I just have to be certain that it's an actual problem that there's a gap. I don't know how it's suppose to look


----------



## Skylab

2mm shouldn't make any difference.


----------



## Mofferino

Probably not, but there is also a visual aspect to take into consideration.


----------



## Mofferino

I just want to add that Audiotailor has offered to cover all repair costs (loose RCA on the back etc.). They've provided me with nothing but great service from beginning to end, so I would like to give them a thumbs up


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just want to add that Audiotailor has offered to cover all repair costs (loose RCA on the back etc.). They've provided me with nothing but great service from beginning to end, so I would like to give them a thumbs up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is great to hear. Joe has done a great job of fielding my questions, and I'm glad that he's been active in this thread. I should have my fully upgraded Jade by the end of this week or early next week with the new upgraded Senny balanced cables. Also, HF-2s hopefully in the next two or three weeks. So many new toys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is great to hear. Joe has done a great job of fielding my questions, and I'm glad that he's been active in this thread. I should have my fully upgraded Jade by the end of this week or early next week with the new upgraded Senny balanced cables. Also, HF-2s hopefully in the next two or three weeks. So many new toys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

 I'm sorry ! some problem on SEHH cable. We have re-order teflon wire for a long time but still not received. May be I will send Jade first & send Cable later. 

 We will not only have HD600/650 cable but will also have balance cable for K702 soon. I had buy some good quality Mini XLR but also waiting for Cable arrive !


----------



## Mofferino

jfourc:

 So you've got XLR output on your Jade? Oh man, why didn't I think of that. Seems like everyone else got the XLR upgrade besides me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you get both an XLR output and the two regular YIN/YANG outputs then? I was thinking about getting rid of my DT880 and buying a pair of HD650, so XLR would have been a great choice.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jfourc:

 So you've got XLR output on your Jade? Oh man, why didn't I think of that. Seems like everyone else got the XLR upgrade besides me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you get both an XLR output and the two regular YIN/YANG outputs then? I was thinking about getting rid of my DT880 and buying a pair of HD650, so XLR would have been a great choice._

 

No, it's not XLR outputs. You just use both the Yin/Yang output in a balanced 6.35 configuration. At least that's how I understand it.


----------



## Mofferino

That's a little out of my league. Does it require an add-on on the Jade or do I just need to buy a specific cable? I'm not sure I understood it right.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a little out of my league. Does it require an add-on on the Jade or do I just need to buy a specific cable? I'm not sure I understood it right._

 

You have to get that cable from Audiotailor.


----------



## googlephone

That's why the Neutrik combo connector is perfect for this application. You can use the 1/4" jack connectors and retain the yin/yang aspect, but also have true xlr connectors for the balanced route and use standard cables you may already own. Best of both worlds. It only costs about $6 for the new connectors. My only concern is fitment. 

 Joe have you been able to look at the specs on the Neutrik connector to see if it would work. I understand you would have to pull from yin side as the + for the left and right balance and the yang side for the - of the balance or vise versa. But that would just be a little wiring and soldering on the inside.


----------



## Mofferino

Phew! Thought I missed out on a cool upgrade. I'll definately have a look at that cable should I decide to go for 650HD.

 Lets see if I got it right the second time around: All one has to do is replace the stock HD650 cable with the balanced cable from Audiotailor which has split/combo connectors that you plug into both the YIN and YANG? This should then soundwise result in heaven on earth


----------



## googlephone

Still looking for any experience with the HD800 and the Jade. I just ordered the HD800 and I'm wondering if this amp will do the the new phones any justice.

 anyone??


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still looking for any experience with the HD800 and the Jade. I just ordered the HD800 and I'm wondering if this amp will do the the new phones any justice.

 anyone??_

 

They sound pretty good together, IMO. Roll in the right tubes and it could be even better - the tubes I have in my Jade were not chosen for synergy with the HD800.


----------



## Mofferino

Skylab:

 What do you look for in terms of stats when trying to create a synergy between your phones and tubes?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab:

 What do you look for in terms of stats when trying to create a synergy between your phones and tubes?_

 

Stats? Almost nothing. There is very little you can determine about synergy from statistics.

 The only exception is that I have started to pay attention to the output impedance of a tube amp and the impedance of the headphone. A tube amp with a high output impedance will generally not do very well with headphones of a low impedance.

 Beyond that - ya gotta listen


----------



## Mofferino

Skylab:

 It's just that you said your current tubes in your Jade were not chosen for synergy with the HD800. But thanks for clarifying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These days don't much amp's have H/L switches that makes it easier to pair with any type of headphone?


----------



## Skylab

Many amps do, indeed, and I think Audiotailor might have added one to the Jade - but mine does not have this.


----------



## googlephone

Just saw this amp and it looking very similar to the jade:

Chazz 2 - Headphone Amplifier - Assembled | Diy HiFi Supply







 Interesting that it used a yin/yang combo of connections and balanced cable????

 So which came first the Chazz or the Jade???


----------



## oldwine

yup, it seems v. similar, but it uses 2x 12AU7, maybe it uses each 12AU7 for the phone out.


----------



## jfourc

Anyone happen to have the DT880 600 ohm, and would like to share their experience with the Jade?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saw this amp and it looking very similar to the jade:

Chazz 2 - Headphone Amplifier - Assembled | Diy HiFi Supply






 Interesting that it used a yin/yang combo of connections and balanced cable????

 So which came first the Chazz or the Jade???_

 


 Chazz topology is same as Jade but use 2 driver tubes, Film output cap. ASL authorize DIYHIFI supply to use the Patented circuit in Chazz. Circuit is also design by me.


----------



## Dat_Dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone happen to have the DT880 600 ohm, and would like to share their experience with the Jade?_

 

I cannot comment to the DT880/600, but I can tell you that the synergy with the DT990/600 is amazing.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dat_Dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I cannot comment to the DT880/600, but I can tell you that the synergy with the DT990/600 is amazing._

 

Thanks for the input. I also talked to Skylab about his impressions of the DT880/600, and he seems to enjoy them a lot, and suggested that I look through the Chicago Meet impressions thread, which I am currently reading through. Apparently they really liked it so I might be putting in an order for one with Moon Audio soon.


----------



## Mofferino

How does the DT880/600 and DT990/600 compare to the DT880/250? Always wanted to try the 600 Ohm Beyers.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does the DT880/600 and DT990/600 compare to the DT880/250? Always wanted to try the 600 Ohm Beyers._

 

There are a couple threads on the comparison between the DT880/250 and DT880/600. Just search for DT880 600.


----------



## Mofferino

jfourc:

 Thanks. I'll take a look. Thinking about celebrating Christmas early this year with a pair of either DT880/600, DT900/600 or HD650. All three apparently goes well with the Jade. God knows DT800/250 doesn't.

 By the way guys - be sure to post your opinions on the balanced solution for HD600/650 as soon as it arrives


----------



## SmellyGas

Alright. I'm in for one of these too. I hope it doesn't suck.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmellyGas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright. I'm in for one of these too. I hope it doesn't suck._

 

That'll depends which amp you're coming from.


----------



## googlephone

Just wanted to give everyone an update. I've got the HD800 burned in for about 150 hours. Initially I could hear improvements on the phones but nothing earth shattering. During this time I kept the tubes that worked well with my HD650's and was not really impressed. I was getting close to looking at a high quality ss amp like the BUDA, Phoenix, or B22. Everything I was reading was saying that the HD800's needed a high quality SS to sound great. 

 Anyways I decided to play around with my tubes a bit. Wow!! You can really hear the difference between tubes with these phones. Before with the 650's, tubes were very subtle. With the 800's the difference is night and day. Now I have to take back what I just said. It is night and day on input tubes not the power tubes. Power tubes are very subtle. Not enough of a difference between the Chatham 6as7 vs the TS 5998. So I kept the 5998 in. 

 I moved to the input tubes. I originally had a GE 5157 in there. It was really muddy and just did not sound right. I tried out my Telefunken 12ax7. Man this tube is very detailed but way too bright. I then tried my Mullard CV4003(12au7). This tube is just magic with the HD800. Very detailed but non fatiguing. Extremely musical and enveloping. I don't have all the descriptive words others use, but with this tube I'm in love. No longer looking for another amp. I'm not saying this is the best combo, but I really have no desire to look at this time. Just sitting back and enjoying the music.

 Next step is changing out the connectors to the Neutrik combo's and rewiring the headset for a balancing act. Parts should be in next week.

 I'll let you know how things progress.


----------



## moonboy403

You should definitely try out the Raytheon and Sylvannia 5751.


----------



## jfourc

So, I got my fully upgraded Jade today, but I think there's something wrong with it:

 1. There is a noticeable hum coming from the amp. The left headphone out has more hum than the right headphone out. Also, the high impedance setting generates more hum than the low impedance setting, and balanced has even more hum.
 2. When I go single ended, the sound is very distorted as if the amp has no power and music sounds like I'm in a tin can. It sounds horrible. Balanced sounds okay.

 I've tried different tubes, but no change.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I got my fully upgraded Jade today, but I think there's something wrong with it:

 1. There is a noticeable hum coming from the amp. The left headphone out has more hum than the right headphone out. Also, the high impedance setting generates more hum than the low impedance setting, and balanced has even more hum.
 2. When I go single ended, the sound is very distorted as if the amp has no power and music sounds like I'm in a tin can. It sounds horrible. Balanced sounds okay.

 I've tried different tubes, but no change._

 

 What Headphone are using ? It is good for high sensitive low impedance Cans & Mid to high impedance Cans. 
 We will send you a new unit within 1 week. Please send problem Jade to me by sea Parcel to our HK office. We will pay sea parcel charge tp you by paypal.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What Headphone are using ? It is good for high sensitive low impedance Cans & Mid to high impedance Cans. 
 We will send you a new unit within 1 week. Please send problem Jade to me by sea Parcel to our HK office. We will pay sea parcel charge tp you by paypal._

 

Hi Joseph,

 I unfortunately seem to have the same problem. I received my Jade today. There is hum, more in the left than the right channel, and more on high than low impendance setting. I'm using HD650's, so impedance should not be a concern.


----------



## moonboy403

With seemingly so many cases of defective Jade, it's not looking very good. 

 Are the amps tested before they get shipped out?


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What Headphone are using ? It is good for high sensitive low impedance Cans & Mid to high impedance Cans. 
 We will send you a new unit within 1 week. Please send problem Jade to me by sea Parcel to our HK office. We will pay sea parcel charge tp you by paypal._

 

I've now tried the JADE with AKG 601's as well (120 ohm), and the problem remains, but at a lower level, i.e. a lower impedance headphone generates less intensive hum, but the characteristics are the same (more in left channel, more in high impedance setting).


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *moonboy403* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With seemingly so many cases of defective Jade, it's not looking very good. 

 Are the amps tested before they get shipped out?_

 

Sure ! It had test before ship. I will find the problem on Hum. May be lose ground when shipping. We will replace new units & pay shipping cost.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure ! It had test before ship. I will find the problem on Hum. May be lose ground when shipping. We will replace new units & pay shipping cost._

 

Sounds great! 

 Anything I can do on my end to help? I'm not an expert with electronics but not completely lost either, so maybe there is some simple type of taking a look inside that I could do to help you figure out the hum.


----------



## Mofferino

If its a simple procedure why not get a technician to do it? Might save both you and Joe some time and money


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got some new tubes in the mail this morning. Nothing that we havn't seen before, but I'll probably still be giving my 2 cents worth later on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[img=http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8980/14577661.th.jpg]Chatham

[img=http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2111/71268788.th.jpg]Raytheon_

 

Our Engineer test a New unit of Jade and found some driver tube has hum. We will test more unit & post a result here soon.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If its a simple procedure why not get a technician to do it? Might save both you and Joe some time and money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, if it's just a loose ground I can fix it myself, but for more advanced things than that, I think someone unfamiliar with the Jade may have to do take a quite long look to find the problem, and if you pay a professional technician in Sweden to take a long look, I can tell you that will not save you any money at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I do have some electronics friends, and I might ask one of them to help if Joe's tube testing does not work out, given that Joe thinks it's a good idea.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, if it's just a loose ground I can fix it myself, but for more advanced things than that, I think someone unfamiliar with the Jade may have to do take a quite long look to find the problem, and if you pay a professional technician in Sweden to take a long look, I can tell you that will not save you any money at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 However, I do have some electronics friends, and I might ask one of them to help if Joe's tube testing does not work out, given that Joe thinks it's a good idea._

 

Well, I took off the bottom plate and took a look inside, and there is no loose ground. In fact, everything is very well soldered into place and shows the signs of good craftmanship. 

 I've also tried to replace the stock 12AX7 with two other driver tubes (12AX7's), but the hum remains, same as before. Unfortunately I don't have any 6AS7G's laying around so I cannot check that tube right now. Iwill have a look tomorrow and see if any of the local places have one in stock, so I can try that option as well.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I took off the bottom plate and took a look inside, and there is no loose ground. In fact, everything is very well soldered into place and shows the signs of good craftmanship. 

 I've also tried to replace the stock 12AX7 with two other driver tubes (12AX7's), but the hum remains, same as before. Unfortunately I don't have any 6AS7G's laying around so I cannot check that tube right now. Iwill have a look tomorrow and see if any of the local places have one in stock, so I can try that option as well._

 

I've tried a Chatham 6AS7G, the stock driver, and Tung-sol 5998 and I get massive hum. This isn't just a little hum. I also tried it with a 3 different 12AX7 tubes as well. I guess I could open up the amp and check out the soldering job, but I don't know the circuit of the amp well enough.

 Oh, and let me just add that I wish the build quality was a bit better on the amp. I'm not going to complain about it too much, but just in case people want to know. The amp is very solidly built, but there are just little things that I wish were built better. For example, the panels aren't fully flush with the rest of the enclosure, the screen printing on the front panel is already fading off, and the amp rocks because the feet aren't flat with each other. I feel that my Darkvoice 336SE that I sold for this amp had such details done a lot better. Oh, and now that I look at the bottom of the amp, a bottom corner is damaged. These won't keep me away from keeping my Jade, but I wish I didn't get shipped a broken Jade! Now if the sound isn't what I'm looking for, then that's a different story...


----------



## PaulyT

Wow, now I'm not so bummed that I didn't get the "upgraded" PCB and other fancy stuff in the newer models... mine's been functioning beautifully!


----------



## jfourc

Just opened up my amp. I think I may have found the problem. Seems like there is a loose ground wire that was never soldered. I'll check it out.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've tried a Chatham 6AS7G, the stock driver, and Tung-sol 5998 and I get massive hum. This isn't just a little hum. I also tried it with a 3 different 12AX7 tubes as well. I guess I could open up the amp and check out the soldering job, but I don't know the circuit of the amp well enough.

 Oh, and let me just add that I wish the build quality was a bit better on the amp. I'm not going to complain about it too much, but just in case people want to know. The amp is very solidly built, but there are just little things that I wish were built better. For example, the panels aren't fully flush with the rest of the enclosure, the screen printing on the front panel is already fading off, and the amp rocks because the feet aren't flat with each other. I feel that my Darkvoice 336SE that I sold for this amp had such details done a lot better. Oh, and now that I look at the bottom of the amp, a bottom corner is damaged. These won't keep me away from keeping my Jade, but I wish I didn't get shipped a broken Jade! Now if the sound isn't what I'm looking for, then that's a different story..._

 

If your amp rocks and one of the bottom corners are damaged, then it really sounds like your amp was severely dropped on its head somewhere along the route. Mine does not rock and the enclosure is fine, my only worry is the hum. 

 Also, to continue the detective angle to this, I ordered a GK1-Delux together with the Jade. From what I understand it uses basically the same topology and to some extent the same components as the JADE. 

 My GK1-Delux arrived in the same package as my JADE, and it works just as it should. My guess for now would therefore be that some part of Joe's component supply (that is, components used in the JADE but not in the GK1-Delux) was not in the best shape when our JADE amps were built. If that's the case, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to figure out which component(s)


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just opened up my amp. I think I may have found the problem. Seems like there is a loose ground wire that was never soldered. I'll check it out._

 

Interesting! Is there any chance you could post a picture of the inside and the loose wire?


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting! Is there any chance you could post a picture of the inside and the loose wire?_

 


 Here is a picture.


----------



## PaulyT

Looks like ungrounded output jacks? That could definitely cause the hum. How's your soldering technique?


----------



## koven

would this be considered a noticeable upgrade from the EF1? or is it more like a side-grade?

 what DAC is everyone using to pair w/ this


----------



## Skylab

I prefer the Jade over the EF1, but the margin is not wide, and so I'm not sure how meaningful an upgrade it would actually be. I'd save up for something like a Decware CSP-2, which really would be a noticeable upgrade.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like ungrounded output jacks? That could definitely cause the hum. How's your soldering technique? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

OK, tried soldering it. Hum is better now, but not completely gone. Still very noticeable. I'll see if I can resolder it, but I think I did a decent job of it already. That said, listening to Rebecca Pidgeon's "Spanish Harlem," the resolution of this amp is better than my Darkvoice 336SE.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, tried soldering it. Hum is better now, but not completely gone. Still very noticeable. I'll see if I can resolder it, but I think I did a decent job of it already. That said, listening to Rebecca Pidgeon's "Spanish Harlem," the resolution of this amp is better than my Darkvoice 336SE._

 

Thanks for posting the pic! That wire was not loose on my JADE, and now when you've resoldered it, it sounds like we're in the same range of hum as well, i.e. very noticable rather than massive.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, tried soldering it. Hum is better now, but not completely gone. Still very noticeable. I'll see if I can resolder it, but I think I did a decent job of it already. That said, listening to Rebecca Pidgeon's "Spanish Harlem," the resolution of this amp is better than my Darkvoice 336SE._

 

By the way, does the hum remain with different tubes?


----------



## Hz_joe

We try to made a New unit for replacement to John but check before ship by myself. It still has small hum. John request us 100% refund include shipping charge. OK ! We will 100% refund it. I'm sorry for mistake. We will 100% reponse in it.


----------



## PaulyT

If any of you are in CONUS and are getting a refund and are not shipping it back to Joe and would be willing to sell me a "hummer", please PM me; I've gotten into amp DIY and would love to play with one of these.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We try to made a New unit for replacement to John but check before ship by myself. It still has small hum. John request us 100% refund include shipping charge. OK ! We will 100% refund it. I'm sorry for mistake. We will 100% reponse in it._

 

Joseph,

 Give a salute to you! It is the real 100% money back and good service to the buyer!


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We try to made a New unit for replacement to John but check before ship by myself. It still has small hum. John request us 100% refund include shipping charge. OK ! We will 100% refund it. I'm sorry for mistake. We will 100% reponse in it._

 

I've now found some used RCA 6AS7G's and even some telefunken ECC83's, but tuberolling does not solve the hum. My current hypothesis on suspect component is actually the upgrade Alps Pot, since that is the only common component between mine and the other "hummer" which differs from the standard JADE's. 

 However, on the bright side, Joe is sending me a new unit ASAP and free of charge which he has promised to double check himself, so points for excellent customer service!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If any of you are in CONUS and are getting a refund and are not shipping it back to Joe and would be willing to sell me a "hummer", please PM me; I've gotten into amp DIY and would love to play with one of these._

 

OK! I will request one of Buyer close to you send Jade to you. You can pay What you like to pay after received Jade & test it.


----------



## PaulyT

Thanks, Joe! That works for me.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, Joe! That works for me._

 

Please send me your shipping address & name . Jade will send from USA.


----------



## googlephone

I'm glad you guys have brought up the hum issue. I've often thought the hum was just me being picky. Is the amp dead silent for the rest of you? I do have a low level hum that doesn't go away regardless of tubes. If I turn the volume up with music I do not hear it. Is this what the rest of you are hearing?


----------



## SmellyGas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've now found some used RCA 6AS7G's and even some telefunken ECC83's, but tuberolling does not solve the hum. My current hypothesis on suspect component is actually the upgrade Alps Pot, since that is the only common component between mine and the other "hummer" which differs from the standard JADE's._

 

That might be it! I ordered one with the Alps pot as well, and Joe told me that my unit had a hum problem, so there would be a delay.


----------



## Skylab

Might be - mine, which does not have that, has no hum at all.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm glad you guys have brought up the hum issue. I've often thought the hum was just me being picky. Is the amp dead silent for the rest of you? I do have a low level hum that doesn't go away regardless of tubes. If I turn the volume up with music I do not hear it. Is this what the rest of you are hearing?_

 

No. Absolutely no detectable hum for me. I will qualify that somewhat by saying that I'm using relatively low-impedance K701, and also that I'm using the quieter "tubey" output exclusively, both of which mean I regularly have the volume set up around 12-2 o'clock. But I tried it now in a totally quiet room, and tried the "solid state" output, and same thing, no hum whatsoever in my ears.

 I also don't think that it's necessarily 100% the amp's fault if there's some hum. It's also bound to be dependent on the source, whether it's really steady at 0V rms in its line out to the Jade even when nothing's playing. I'm using a squeezebox connected optically to a customized M-Audio SuperDAC 24/96, a very good DAC from what I understand (though I'm far from an expert on DAC tech).

 I suppose with higher-impedance 'phones turned way up, hum might become more noticeable, if it's there at all. And there's also the tubes... There are a lot of variables here. But with my combo of Jade + tubes + K701 I'm satisified that there's zero detectable hum.


----------



## moonboy403

The K701 isn't a good phone for detecting hum due to its relatively low sensitivity. On the other hand, W5000 was crazy in terms of being able to pick up hum and hiss that I never hear from other cans.


----------



## googlephone

Quote:


 That might be it! I ordered one with the Alps pot as well, and Joe told me that my unit had a hum problem, so there would be a delay. 
 

I too have the Alps pot!!

 As a matter of fact I ordered mine with every upgrade.


----------



## PaulyT

There are apparently fake Alps pots out there, maybe Joe got stiffed with a bad batch...


----------



## Skylab

Everyone should be aware that a lot of tube amps have some hum with low impedance - high sensitivity headphones.


----------



## googlephone

Does 300ohms count as low impendance?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does 300ohms count as low impendance?_

 

No, that's high impedance, for sure.


----------



## Mofferino

I have the basic Jade and absolutely no hum to detect.

 What kind of upgrades/improvements did you guys get besides Alps pots?


----------



## googlephone

I got mine with:

 neutrik black Jack
 Coupling Cap : Infinite
 Alps 27mm Volume 
 RCA Input - 2 Set 
 Balanced cable

 Joe can you help out with this??


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the basic Jade and absolutely no hum to detect.

 What kind of upgrades/improvements did you guys get besides Alps pots?_

 

I got it fully upgraded:

 -Neutrik black Jack
 -Infinite Coupling Cap
 -Alps Volume
 -Composite teflon sockets
 -Upgraded balanced cables with Neutrik 6.35 jacks

 I just sent my amp to PaulyT so he can probably do a comparison of the upgraded version to his version. I used HD650s through the amp so I shouldn't have a humming problem. My Darkvoice 336SE was dead silent with my HD650s.

 I'm sure Joe will figure out what's wrong soon enough. He has been very responsive to my emails during this time, and I hope that this does not keep people from getting this amp once Joe fixes the hum issue.

 A recommendation for you Joe is that you should probably figure out how to pack the amp better. Mine came a bit damaged and was rocking. You should consider using two big pieces of styrofoam that are fitted to the shape of the amp instead of just putting little pieces of styrofoam around the amp.


----------



## SmellyGas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the basic Jade and absolutely no hum to detect.

 What kind of upgrades/improvements did you guys get besides Alps pots?_

 

My only upgrades were the Alps and the socket. Joe just emailed me to let me know he traced the hum to an incorrect ground connection to the alps pot. I hope these are genuine Alps pots. I know there's a lot of counterfeit parts floating around (like the fake OPA627's I got off ebay...who would have guessed).


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmellyGas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My only upgrades were the Alps and the socket. Joe just emailed me to let me know he traced the hum to an incorrect ground connection to the alps pot. I hope these are genuine Alps pots. I know there's a lot of counterfeit parts floating around (like the fake OPA627's I got off ebay...who would have guessed)._

 

Well, the Alps Pot in my JADE certainly both looks and feels like the genuine thing. 

 Also, as far as I've tested, the hum increases with head phone impedance (have tried with Senn HD650 (600 ohms), AKG 601 (120 ohms) and Philips HP890 (32 ohms)). If I understand things correctly, that would fit the erratic ground loop theory very well.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, the Alps Pot in my JADE certainly both looks and feels like the genuine thing. 

 Also, as far as I've tested, the hum increases with head phone impedance (have tried with Senn HD650 (600 ohms), AKG 601 (120 ohms) and Philips HP890 (32 ohms)). If I understand things correctly, that would fit the erratic ground loop theory very well._

 

Alps Pot sure is genuine parts. Hum problem is cause by wrong connecting ground. We will send ground connecting diagram to problem users.


----------



## Mofferino

Has anyone who owns a fully functioning Jade tried the balanced cable?


----------



## theScribe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone who owns a fully functioning Jade tried the balanced cable?_

 

I have one and have been using it for about 3 weeks now. It opens up the soundstage a few notches and makes it noticeably wider. Gain has improved, I don't need to turn the knob as high to hear the same volume. Lastly, I think I lost a bit of the warmth than with the SE "warm" output, but I gained the imaging so I think it's a worthwhile trade off.

 Once you go to the balanced cable, it's hard to go with stock again. (Maybe just from laziness) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -JC


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have one and have been using it for about 3 weeks now. It opens up the soundstage a few notches and makes it noticeably wider. Gain has improved, I don't need to turn the knob as high to hear the same volume. Lastly, I think I lost a bit of the warmth than with the SE "warm" output, but I gained the imaging so I think it's a worthwhile trade off.

 Once you go to the balanced cable, it's hard to go with stock again. (Maybe just from laziness) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 -JC_

 

May i know how to connect the cable to the Jade? Joe have explained to me, but i still in puzzle about it. it would be the best if u can have a pic for reference.


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What Headphone are using ? It is good for high sensitive low impedance Cans & Mid to high impedance Cans. _

 

Hi, I am very interested in getting this amp along with Denon D5000s and I currently have AT AD700s. The Denons are 25 ohm, with sensitivity of 106dB/mW, while the Audio-Technicas are 32 ohm, 98dB/mW sensitivity. edit: i just checked and the AKG K701s are 62 ohm, 105dB/mW by way of comparison. 

 Do any or all of the above qualify as high sensitivity? Has anyone tried this amp with either the AT or Denon series of phones?


----------



## Mofferino

theScribe:

 Like oldwine, I would love to see some pictures too. Please share


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_theScribe:

 Like oldwine, I would love to see some pictures too. Please share 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 Jade is simulair connection as GK1-J .


----------



## Mofferino

I've never owned a pair of HD600/650. Is it difficult to change the cable? Also, when using both left and right output what sound signature would you then get - SS or tubey?


----------



## oldwine

my question is, can those 6.35mm jack be connected reversely?? as i didn't saw any indication on both jacks and the headphone connectors.


----------



## runswithaliens

So I guess with all of my headphones being 60 ohms or less, I really need to get a hybrid tube amp such as the Head-Direct EF1. But I really do like all the features that the Jade amp offers. Maybe AudioTailor will put out a hybrid version of the Jade someday? Having the two different sounding outputs plus all the tailored options such as balanced and multiple inputs would be pretty cool to have I think.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my question is, can those 6.35mm jack be connected reversely?? as i didn't saw any indication on both jacks and the headphone connectors._

 

Yes ! It can reverse but only difference Phase.


----------



## koven

What is the shipped price of the Jade to USA? Also, how much do the upgrade options cost?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the shipped price of the Jade to USA? Also, how much do the upgrade options cost?_

 

You only need pay 1/4 of Shipping cost if you purchase before end of Sept.,2009. 

 Jade Shipping to North America , Europe & some Asia country 

 Jade cost US$300 + 1/4 shipping cost (EMS) + Paypal cost 3%

 Standard Jade total cost is US$327.5

 Upgrade 

 2. Upgrade parts : neutrik black Jack. - US$12 , Coupling Cap : Infinite US$40 ,Alps 27mm Volumn : US$15,
 Composite teflon sockets US$10 (Blue color), RCA Input - 2 Set (no 3.5mm Input jack) - US$5, Balance cable for HD600 - US$30 , Balance Cable for K702US$35

 Rem : Balance cable special price is for Audiotailor users only. Standard Price of HD600/650 Balance Cable US$60 + shipping , K702 - US$70 + shipping.


----------



## googlephone

Joe

 I still have not received the replacement balanced cables for my headphones. I'm also waiting on the drawing and instructions to correct the hum issue. Please advise


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe

 I still have not received the replacement balanced cables for my headphones. I'm also waiting on the drawing and instructions to correct the hum issue. Please advise_

 

HK office had send it out by airmail. May be need few more days. Please send me email if not receive within 3 days. Sometime has problem on airmail !


----------



## PaulyT

Ok, I've received the "hummer" Jade (which Joe was kind enough to sell me at a big discount 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and I can confirm the hum. Note that it's not related to any particular source; I tried my good DAC and also a direct connection to the hp out from my laptop, no difference, and in fact I hear the same hum when nothing is connected to this Jade at all. Volume knob setting also does not affect it; the best way I fount to check for it is to simply power on the unit and plug the headphones in with them on your head; there's a noticeable hum in this damaged unit when the jack is inserted, and by pulling the jack partway out and back in, you can hear the hum cut in and out. This is using my (open) K701s in a not terribly quiet room - my dining room, windows open, cars outside, etc. More noticeable in the left (SS-like) jack.

 In contrast, I took the same phones and went into a more quiet room (my office, windows closed), and tried the same thing with my working Jade, and no hum that I could detect under the exact same conditions - with or without a source connected, regardless of volume setting. 

 My next test will of course be to open up the damaged one and (possibly in consultation with Joe) redo the ground connections and see if it clears up. Will keep you all posted.

 It's a shame this has come up, because when it's working right, I think the Jade is still a terrific little amp and a particularly good value. Once Joe adjusts his manufacturing pipeline to make sure this problem is gone, I hope this will not dissuade people from buying the Jade.


----------



## Mofferino

PaulyT:

 Great job, PaulyT. And I most certainly agree: it would be a shame if this should dissuade people from purchasing the Jade. Let alone the amazing service that Joe provides is enough to convince me to keep on shopping.

 I'm urging whoever bought the balanced Senn-cable to give their 2 cents worth. Very interested in hearing more about it. Thx


----------



## oldwine

i just ordered the cable, will try its improvement once i get it.


----------



## koven

Skylab, could you provide some thoughts on your Jade vs Ming Da? I'm getting a Pico DAC and might be upgrading the EF2 soon too, so I'm looking at tube amps under $450 and these two are sticking out.


----------



## Skylab

I slightly prefer the Ming Da - it is definitely a "tubier" amp, but I think it's exceptional for the price. It does, however, require about $200 worth of tubes to really sound it's best, so that has to be factored into the mix. The Jade is terrific, and is a bit more neutral, so it may even appeal more to some.


----------



## donunus

Skylab,
 Have you heard the hifiman ef2 yet? If you have, where does it fall in quality among the jade and the mingda not considering the price?


----------



## Skylab

Nope - have not heard the EF2 yet - maybe in a few weeks.


----------



## donunus

Im so tempted since it seems like such a value product(the EF2) but am only scared that it might be too similar to the little dot mk2 that I have since they use the same driver tubes.


----------



## SmellyGas

Has anyone considered swapping out the capacitors and resistors with higher end stuff?


----------



## PaulyT

That may be one of the things I do with the Jade I got for tinkering, though what's on there now seems pretty decent. The circuit is pretty simple and the PCB relatively easy to access, so it's definitely feasible.


----------



## sizwej

being a relative newb, i cant tell from the specs of the jade if they would be able to power my akg k-340.Anyone have any idea?


----------



## SmellyGas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That may be one of the things I do with the Jade I got for tinkering, though what's on there now seems pretty decent. The circuit is pretty simple and the PCB relatively easy to access, so it's definitely feasible._

 

Yeah, I'd just be afraid of electrocuting myself. Well if someone does it, please post pics!


----------



## koven

I am very interested in purchasing this due to the beautiful design/fair shipped price within CONUS.

 However, I'm concerned if this will be an improvement vs my EF2..I'm also concerned about quality control issues... is that getting fixed? Also, what upgrades or options does it come w/ & pricing?


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes ! It can reverse but only difference Phase._

 

I just got this balanced cable, may i know which 6.3 jack should be inserted in which side?? as both jack does not have any indication on it.

 Also, how long does the cable need to run in??

 I'll post some impression later.


----------



## oldwine

i've got the first and important problem!!! after plugged in both jacks, it got hum sound!!!

 I have unplug one of them, the both channel got mute.

 and when i plug DT880 and SA5000 to the Jade at the same time, no hum sound. So i wonder it is due to the QC of that cable.

 Is it mean there is any defect of my balanced cable??


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am very interested in purchasing this due to the beautiful design/fair shipped price within CONUS.

 However, I'm concerned if this will be an improvement vs my EF2..I'm also concerned about quality control issues... is that getting fixed? Also, what upgrades or options does it come w/ & pricing?_

 

Jade cost US$300 + 1/4 shipping cost (EMS) + Paypal cost 3%

 Standard Jade total cost is US$327.5

 Upgrade 

 2. Upgrade parts : neutrik black Jack. - US$12 , Coupling Cap : Infinite US$40 ,Alps 27mm Volumn : US$15,
 Composite teflon sockets US$10 (Blue color), RCA Input - 2 Set (no 3.5mm Input jack) - US$5, Balance cable for HD600 - US$30 , Balance Cable for K702US$35

 Rem : Balance cable special price is for Audiotailor users only. Standard Price of HD600/650 Balance Cable US$60 + shipping , K702 - US$70 + shipping.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've got the first and important problem!!! after plugged in both jacks, it got hum sound!!!

 I have unplug one of them, the both channel got mute.

 and when i plug DT880 and SA5000 to the Jade at the same time, no hum sound. So i wonder it is due to the QC of that cable.

 Is it mean there is any defect of my balanced cable??_

 

I had no idea on this matter. I will check it and confirm you later.


----------



## koven

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade cost US$300 + 1/4 shipping cost (EMS) + Paypal cost 3%

 Standard Jade total cost is US$327.5

 Upgrade 

 2. Upgrade parts : neutrik black Jack. - US$12 , Coupling Cap : Infinite US$40 ,Alps 27mm Volumn : US$15,
 Composite teflon sockets US$10 (Blue color), RCA Input - 2 Set (no 3.5mm Input jack) - US$5, Balance cable for HD600 - US$30 , Balance Cable for K702US$35

 Rem : Balance cable special price is for Audiotailor users only. Standard Price of HD600/650 Balance Cable US$60 + shipping , K702 - US$70 + shipping._

 


 Thanks, but are there still issues with the Jade? Have problems been fixed? 

 What is the warranty/return policy?


----------



## theScribe

Hey guys, I been using the Balanced Cable for about a month and today the connectors (under the earpieces) finally gave way and the soldered point in the + and - wires snapped. 
 I was having problems with the connector head being loose (comes apart every few days, have to push back together) since day one I got the cable. 

 I could solder it myself but as it stands, I'm rather disappointed by the quality of the connector. The Cable itself (the weave and neutriks-like jacks especially) looks nice enough. Joe, is there anything you can do? Can I send a cable back for repair?

 Thanks guys, just a precaution, I hope you won't receive a cable with weak stress points like mine. 

 -JC


----------



## koven

^ I'm really interested in the Jade but numerous posts like this, talking about problems, have got my hopes down. Such a shame, please fix these problems Audiotailor!


----------



## theScribe

By all means, the Jade Amp is excellent. I love it and the two flavors of sound I can select depending on music or mood. That said, the Balanced Cable improved the sound (I'm not a cable believer, but I do believe this "balanced" configuration makes a significant difference) by giving it much more space, air, and a dash of clarity.

 The amp is perfect, it's just the cables (for me) that need some work. I hope Audiotailor can help me with the cable, so far their communication and service is outstanding!

 -JC


----------



## SmellyGas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *koven* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ I'm really interested in the Jade but numerous posts like this, talking about problems, have got my hopes down. Such a shame, please fix these problems Audiotailor!_

 

Mine came in perfect condition with zero problems.


----------



## oldwine

JC,

 I also found that the cable itself is ok (except the hum problem of (mine) ), but the minor problems like the wiring of connectors, clear indication of the Neutrix jacks (as mine does not have any indication on which (red/black) one should put on which jacks)

 BTW, after several hours of burn in, the balanced cable gives me a more 3D and airy than the stock one.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I been using the Balanced Cable for about a month and today the connectors (under the earpieces) finally gave way and the soldered point in the + and - wires snapped. 
 I was having problems with the connector head being loose (comes apart every few days, have to push back together) since day one I got the cable. 

 I could solder it myself but as it stands, I'm rather disappointed by the quality of the connector. The Cable itself (the weave and neutriks-like jacks especially) looks nice enough. Joe, is there anything you can do? Can I send a cable back for repair?

 Thanks guys, just a precaution, I hope you won't receive a cable with weak stress points like mine. 

 -JC_


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By all means, the Jade Amp is excellent. I love it and the two flavors of sound I can select depending on music or mood. That said, the Balanced Cable improved the sound (I'm not a cable believer, but I do believe this "balanced" configuration makes a significant difference) by giving it much more space, air, and a dash of clarity.

 The amp is perfect, it's just the cables (for me) that need some work. I hope Audiotailor can help me with the cable, so far their communication and service is outstanding!

 -JC_

 

I also agree this, Jade is a great product, but the minor parts and QC should take more attention.

 Most potential buyers will just look around their good points, but they will seriously notice on the problems it have, and this will draw their mind to think twice before paying it.

 Also, i have also using both email and pm in here to talk with Joe, his response are v. good, always have prompt and quick reply.

 -old wine


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I also agree this, Jade is a great product, but the minor parts and QC should take more attention.

 Most potential buyers will just look around their good points, but they will seriously notice on the problems it have, and this will draw their mind to think twice before paying it.

 Also, i have also using both email and pm in here to talk with Joe, his response are v. good, always have prompt and quick reply.

 -old wine_

 

 Thank for support very much. I will be control quality on everthing more carefully. 
 Hum problem on Jade has solved.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank for support very much. I will be control quality on everthing more carefully. 
 Hum problem on Jade has solved._

 

So, any idea why my balanced cable got such problem?? is it due to the shielding or others?? i will try to demagnetize it by using the RD-1 to see is it the static reason.

 The hum problem is proportional toward the volume, ie. the higher volume u use, the higher sound i can hear.

 Why i find this problem? bo i just got the CSE RK-100, it is a power regenerator, which gives me a deep sea silence on it when using the DT800. However, when i plug the HD600 with the balanced cable, the problem found.

 Or i am so unlucky to got a defected one??


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, any idea why my balanced cable got such problem?? is it due to the shielding or others?? i will try to demagnetize it by using the RD-1 to see is it the static reason.

 The hum problem is proportional toward the volume, ie. the higher volume u use, the higher sound i can hear.

 Why i find this problem? bo i just got the CSE RK-100, it is a power regenerator, which gives me a deep sea silence on it when using the DT800. However, when i plug the HD600 with the balanced cable, the problem found.

 Or i am so unlucky to got a defected one?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Higher volumn with higher Hum ? It seem to be Hum come from source and Jade too high gain ! especially on balance cable. May be you need to use lower gain postion not high gain position.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Higher volumn with higher Hum ? It seem to be Hum come from source and Jade too high gain ! especially on balance cable. May be you need to use lower gain postion not high gain position._

 

No. I tried both high and low gain and it got the hum also.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine is the original one, ie. the one with undetachable power cable, is it also the problem of ground?? but i didn't found it when using DT880.

 Maybe i try it again this weekend to find what the problem comes from.

 PS. May i know which balanced plug should plug in which plug?? i have asked several times, but you still not give me the clue...


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No. I tried both high and low gain and it got the hum also.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine is the original one, ie. the one with undetachable power cable, is it also the problem of ground?? but i didn't found it when using DT880.

 Maybe i try it again this weekend to find what the problem comes from.

 PS. May i know which balanced plug should plug in which plug?? i have asked several times, but you still not give me the clue... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Red Plug to Right Jack but reverse only Phase difference. May be you can short Input & test it Hum vary with Volumn or not ?


----------



## theScribe

As I said, excellent service. 

 Joe has agreed to send me a new cable as a replacement. It's a great piece of equipment. 

 On another note, about the cable, I'm not truly a cables material believer, so does the extra spaciousness and instrument separation come from the balanced configuration more than the cable material (from stock HD650 cable)?

 I only paid about $40 dollars for it, so I don't think it's such fancy material. This amp then has a lot of potential for expansion.

 -JC


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *theScribe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As I said, excellent service. 

 Joe has agreed to send me a new cable as a replacement. It's a great piece of equipment. 

 On another note, about the cable, I'm not truly a cables material believer, so does the extra spaciousness and instrument separation come from the balanced configuration more than the cable material (from stock HD650 cable)?

 I only paid about $40 dollars for it, so I don't think it's such fancy material. This amp then has a lot of potential for expansion.

 -JC_

 

It is teflon 2 signal wire + shielding per channel, good insulation , good shielding can lower cross over between channel. Ofcourse balance configue sound is not only from cable.


----------



## oghoter

A few things:

 Hum problem - I hear a bit hum esp with my AKG K450 (standard cable, same in left and right output), a bit less with the Senn HD600 (bal cable), overall it doesnt bother me much. Tubes dont seem to make a difference, nor changing input. 

 Balanced HD cable problem - me too, have to adjust it "just so". Joe has promised a new one, which i'll do together with the upgrade. 

 Ming Da vs. Jade - have listened to the Ming MC34 integrated a lot this summer, comparing to Jade. I enjoy both, but prefer the OTL clarity of the Jade to the more tubey Ming.

 Tubes - changing the small tube to a NOS telefunken: better. Changing the big one to a NOS General electric: also, better. 

 Source: Korg Mr1 functions even better as player after i managed to change its hard disk to 80gb. See the headfi thread on the Korg as portable player. 

 Speakers: any progress, Joe? Meanwhile, has anyone found a good match, for example Sony srs-zx1? 

 Overall, with the sound quality, Audiotailor's help if problems, and the debate here, I have no hesitation recommending it to people.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Red Plug to Right Jack but reverse only Phase difference. May be you can short Input & test it Hum vary with Volumn or not ?_

 

After the weekend testing, i have shorted both inputs (cable and CD players' RCA out), it does not help a lot. I also confirmed when using the high gain, the hum got more.

 It makes me wonder the most is, it is only for that cable, none for the stock one, as well as on other phones.

 So, i may wonder is it the quality or shielding of the balanced cable?? Joe, can you send me another one to me for comparison, so i can confirm is it just the problem of cable??


----------



## oghoter

Since my active speakers Sony srs z500 have served so well over the (8) years and esp with the Jade in the chain, i am willing to invest in better desktop speakers like Sony srs zx1. However these are expensive, and before i decide, your advice is welcome.


----------



## googlephone

Joe, 

 I hate to keep contacting you off of this thread, but it seems like it is the only way I can get you. Can you please, pretty please update me on my replacement balanced cable and provide instructions on fixing the hum issue. Please do not ask me to pm or email you directly. That avenue does not appear to be working.


----------



## koven

ugh.. i really want this because the price is right, but the latter half of this thread seems to be mainly problems/issues and joe doesn't seem to be very good on communication


----------



## runswithaliens

I understand this is an OTL amp and so not ideal for low impedance cans, but I have also read of lots of folks using their Denon 2000's or 5000's in OTL amps with seemingly good results. Anyone using Denons with this amp?


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *runswithaliens* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I understand this is an OTL amp and so not ideal for low impedance cans, but I have also read of lots of folks using their Denon 2000's or 5000's in OTL amps with seemingly good results. Anyone using Denons with this amp?_

 

Well, for me it works nicely with AKG 601 8120 ohms) and Philips HP-890 (32 ohms), so I would not worry too much about the low impedance issue.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, 

 I hate to keep contacting you off of this thread, but it seems like it is the only way I can get you. Can you please, pretty please update me on my replacement balanced cable and provide instructions on fixing the hum issue. Please do not ask me to pm or email you directly. That avenue does not appear to be working._

 

Please send your mailing address again. May be our HK staff keep wrong address ! All other customers had received repalcement cable already.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please send your mailing address again. May be our HK staff keep wrong address ! All other customers had received repalcement cable already._

 

So do i?? bos it seems the hum problem to me still not yet solved. I have tried to use it on a separated system (just the CDP and Jade thru CSE RK-100 only) and sadly it still get the problem.

 So, would you sending me a replacement to see whether is it the cable's problem.


----------



## googlephone

The hum issue and the cable issue are two different things for me. My cable pretty much fell apart the first day I got them. I'm just trying to get a replacement. 

 Has anyone received instructions on fixing the hum issue? Joe says he has a fix and is sending the info. Has anyone received it yet?

 Joe I will send you another email. I hope this is the last time.


----------



## googlephone

Alright Joe, I just sent a PM and email. The ball is in your court.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *googlephone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright Joe, I just sent a PM and email. The ball is in your court._

 

Just send you email about ground connection. Please feel free to email me if any question. sales@audiotailor.com


----------



## runswithaliens

Hey Joe,
 Are pre-amp outs on the back one of the options on the Jade, or would one just use one of the headphone out jacks to go to an amp?
 Thanks.


----------



## googlephone

Just wanted to update the group on my slight mod. I updated the stock SE jacks with Neutrik XLR combo jacks. You can still use SE connectors and keep the benefits of the two sound flavors. The improvement comes with being able to use standard XLR jacks for balanced mode. Pretty useful in my opinion.


----------



## Skylab

Nice job! Looks well done.


----------



## Hz_joe

Pre-amp + USB DAC version of Jade will be available & Distributing in North America soon. It will be difference brand and model.


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pre-amp + USB DAC version of Jade will be available & Distributing in North America soon. It will be difference brand and model._

 

I will be very interested to see more details about that one.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pre-amp + USB DAC version of Jade will be available & Distributing in North America soon. It will be difference brand and model._

 

I'm also interested in hearing more, that sounds like a promising product!

 By the way Joe, It's now almost four weeks since you were to ship the replacement JADE for the humming JADE I first got, but it has not arrived yet. Should I be worried?


----------



## googlephone

I have attempted to perform the fix that Joe provided and see no improvements with the hum. Has anyone else performed this fix and it actually fixed the hum?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also interested in hearing more, that sounds like a promising product!

 By the way Joe, It's now almost four weeks since you were to ship the replacement JADE for the humming JADE I first got, but it has not arrived yet. Should I be worried?_

 


 Our staff send it by airmail not EMS. May be something wrong on it ! Wil send another one from China factory to HK today and send by EMS to you next Monday.


----------



## oldwine

Don't so delighted so early. As the past experience they did, they may need to "tune/finalize" their products between shipments.

 BTW, may balanced cable still have hum problem, but they seems no intention to help me to ease it.


----------



## oghoter

The morale may be to stay with the Jade you've got, Joe seems overloaded for now. I am certainly enjoying my standard jade with improved tubes and single-driver speakers, cf 
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/ko...9/index11.html


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't so delighted so early. As the past experience they did, they may need to "tune/finalize" their products between shipments.

 BTW, may balanced cable still have hum problem, but they seems no intention to help me to ease it._

 

Balance cable not the reason to cause Hum. Hum is slightly higher than Unbalance out is normal due to higher sensitive.


----------



## PaulyT

Hi all! Sorry it took me so long, but I finally got around to fixing the hum problem in the second Jade I got from one of the other folks in this thread. Yes, the instructions Joe provided worked, the hum is completely eliminated AFAICT. It wasn't trivial to do, since it involved taking the Jade apart enough to get at the underside of the circuit board, and scraping off a little section of the copper foil circuit with a knife to break a connection (and rewiring it to ground elsewhere). So to do this yourself you need some basic comfort level with soldering and circuit boards, but it's definitely do-able and it works, I will vouch for that.


----------



## Mofferino

PaulyT:

 Nice job 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Any1 else been playing around with the balanced cable for HD650? I'm considering it as an alternative to my Blue Dragon cable.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Our staff send it by airmail not EMS. May be something wrong on it ! Wil send another one from China factory to HK today and send by EMS to you next Monday._

 

Ok, sounds good!


----------



## googlephone

PaulyT

 I'm having difficulty understanding the instructions:

  Quote:


 1. Cut ground of which connect to Volumn pot.

 2. connect Volumn pot ground from Volumn to ground point beside R30. 
 

I believe I did this one correctly:





 photo 16

  Quote:


 3. Add ground wire as PDF file. (ground point beside R1) 
 

This is where I get confused:

 There is no ground point that I can tell near R1





 photo 13

 Also if you look at the drawing the ground is supposed to connect to two points on VB1:





 jade ground photo

 It does not appear to be so on my board. Is this correct?





 photo 14

 The ground actually lands on F2





 photo 15

 So any help you can provide will be most helpful. Also if anyone can help with the translation in read. 

 thx


----------



## vkung

photo 15

 So any help you can provide will be most helpful. Also if anyone can help with the translation in read. 

 First sentence (4 characters) ===> Cut here
 Second sentence (7 characters) ====> Here add a new ground point


----------



## Hz_joe

Sorry for wrong language version ! Block line - Cut here. 

 Thin line with arrow. addtional ground.


----------



## googlephone

Still a little confusion on the cut here and add new ground.

 For the cut here, is this part of the volume pot, circuit board, and if circuit board which side of the circuit board. 

 Add the new ground, I don't seem to have a spot to add. How is this done exactly?

 Can you provide pics?


----------



## PaulyT

Here's what Joe sent me, though I've added (in green) the point where I added the new ground connection wire. It's one of the holes (assuming I circled the right one) that already existed in an unused spot on the board marked "C1" - you can see this in googlephone's fourth picture. I ran a wire from that spot to the central ground point in the middle of the case where other ground wires are connected. (I also reconfigured the other ground wires a bit before getting Joe's diagram, though that didn't have much effect, so I wouldn't worry about this, unless the circuit board fix doesn't get all the hum for some reason...)







 This picture also shows the place where the cut in the circuit board foil needs to be made. Just find the corresponding location on the back of the board - although it'll be a mirror image from what's in this image when you look from the back. I just took a knife, scored parallel tracks along the indicated path, removing a strip about 2-3mm wide.

 If it's really necessary I can try to get a picture of it, but I already put everything back together again, and it takes a bit of work to get to the back of the board; all the jacks/pot/switch on the front panel need to be unbolted, and I found it easier just to remove the front panel completely. Then you can unscrew the five screws on the outside top of the case that hold the board and lift it up enough to do the fix. You probably don't need to disconnect any other wires, at least I didn't, just be careful of the one that goes to the power light on the front panel - I had to resolder that when I accidentally broke that connection.


----------



## googlephone

Finally, no more hum.

 Thank you PaulyT for sharing with me.

 I've attached some pics to help out others who may be in the same boat. After it's all said and done, the fix is really not that difficult.

 The first pic shows the top side of the board where the foil is before I did any mods.

 The second pic shows the cut into the foil and the solder performed on C1.

 The third pic shows the opposite side of C1 where the ground wire comes out.

 One recommendation I would give is to get a hold of a fluke to perform continuity checks. After you perform the cut of the foil and before you ground out the C1 spot. Verify there is no continuity between the left and right side of the cut. I had to make a few additional cuts to ensure there was a complete separation.

 This thing is dead silent now. 

 Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## PaulyT

Cool. So how do you like the Jade with the HD800? Considering you could buy about three Jades for the price of those phones...


----------



## googlephone

I'm really enjoying it a lot more now. I do have to say that the Audio-GD appears to be a much better combo with the HD800. But the comparison was also done before the hum repairs. So I hope to have the Phoenix here in about 1-2 weeks. I'll have to do another comparison. I'm sure the gap is less now. 

 On a side note, do you think the initial wiring of the Jade affected the SQ in other ways beyond the hum?? I'm finding the overall sound much improved. Maybe it's just my relief of the hum, but bass seems a bit improved and there was a bit of high frequency bite that seems to be quite tamed now.

 Joe, can you provide some additional information on what the modification did for the overall sound?


----------



## ceausuc

Any one could explain what this upgrade is supposed to change in the sound of the amp ? "Coupling Cap : Infinite US$40". Is this a big improvement?


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all! Sorry it took me so long, but I finally got around to fixing the hum problem in the second Jade I got from one of the other folks in this thread. Yes, the instructions Joe provided worked, the hum is completely eliminated AFAICT. It wasn't trivial to do, since it involved taking the Jade apart enough to get at the underside of the circuit board, and scraping off a little section of the copper foil circuit with a knife to break a connection (and rewiring it to ground elsewhere). So to do this yourself you need some basic comfort level with soldering and circuit boards, but it's definitely do-able and it works, I will vouch for that._

 

Success! No more hum! I took a chance and picked my JADE apart to follow PaulyT's excellent DIY walkthrough, and now the hum is gone. 

 Thanks PaulyT for sharing!!!

 In addition, I would say that the balanced cable does add a bit of air and space to my HD650's. I don't think it changes the sound signature all that much though, or rather, it stays within the "tubey" style which is the mode I tend to prefer anyway.

 Overall, great amp!


----------



## Hz_joe

Special Sales for 60 years China Aniniversary & X'mas 

 Free shipping until end of Dec.,2009

 Standard Jade US$300 + 3% Paypal charge

 Standard Jade + HD600/650 Balance Cable - US$330

 Standard Jade + AKG-K702 Cable Balance Cable - US$340

 Standard Jade + GK1-Delux - US$360 + Paypal charge 


 100% Money back if any Hum or Functional problem.

http://www.audiotailor.com


----------



## PaulyT

So, I've been listening to my Jade a lot the past few days with some Denon D5000s (markl-modded). I was initially a little worried about how these 'phones would do with this amp based on some of Skylab's comments in his initial review. Well, not trying to be contradictory by any means, but I don't think this is a problem. The Jade + D5000 combo is really *really *nice - in fact these will be replacing my beloved K701s, but that's another story... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, my point is simply that the Jade seems to do well with low-impedance 'phones, at least these particular ones. I actually have the volume turned down slightly compared to the K701, despite the lower impedance of the Denon, and the similar (I think) efficiency ratings of the two.

 Edit: the impedance of the D5000 is 25 Ohm.


----------



## Hz_joe

Yes ! Most of OTL headphone amps can not drive low impedance well but Jade special circuit can drive most of low impedance Cans well. I had test it with SR325 , ATH-900TI with very good result.


----------



## Akselpaksel

Anyone have anyexperience with amp and the AKG k601 and Grado SR60?


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Akselpaksel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have anyexperience with amp and the AKG k601 and Grado SR60?_

 

Yes, I've been using the AKG 601's with great results.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Our staff send it by airmail not EMS. May be something wrong on it ! Wil send another one from China factory to HK today and send by EMS to you next Monday._

 

The replacement amp has now arrived, and everything works great! The hum problem which occured on the early upgrade JADEs now seems to be fully resolved. This one has all the upgrades and is dead quiet! 

 I just have to say thanks Joe for excellent customer service! It's great that you just sent a second replacement amp when the first got lost in the airmailsystem (EMS seems much more reliable than airmail), rather than ask me to wait for a while and hope it turns up. 

 On another note: Any news on when the DAC version will be released?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The replacement amp has now arrived, and everything works great! The hum problem which occured on the early upgrade JADEs now seems to be fully resolved. This one has all the upgrades and is dead quiet! 

 I just have to say thanks Joe for excellent customer service! It's great that you just sent a second replacement amp when the first got lost in the airmailsystem (EMS seems much more reliable than airmail), rather than ask me to wait for a while and hope it turns up. 

 On another note: Any news on when the DAC version will be released?_

 

Headphone + USB DAC + Pre-amp - Will be delivery to Canada next week. 

 I will check space on Jade. It can order USB DAC in option if it can fit in Jade.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Headphone + USB DAC + Pre-amp - Will be delivery to Canada next week. 

 I will check space on Jade. It can order USB DAC in option if it can fit in Jade._

 

Ok, I remember now that you said the DAC + Pre-amp was going to be a different product from the JADE, I just had forgotten that.Nonetheless, a DAC upgrade option on the JADE would be very cool. 

 How much does the new Headphone + USB DAC + Pre-amp cost?


----------



## oldwine

i wonder is it any upgrade options for current JADE users.

 Indeed, Jade is a good product at this price.


----------



## driftingbunnies

How long do the tubes usually last? I want to make the jump back to tubes but I already had a bad experience with my first try. Oh and how much are the replacement tubes usually cost?


----------



## PaulyT

Tubes in good shape should last thousands of hours. The cost is highly variable, anywhere from $20-$100, sometimes more for the really rare ones, and whether they're NOS (new old stock - unused) or used.


----------



## Mofferino

HD650 is amazing with the Jade. Replaced my DT880 with them some time ago and haven't been able to turn off the Jade since 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can only imagine how great a pair of HD800 must sound.

 Jade.love!


----------



## Nirmalanow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I've been listening to my Jade a lot the past few days with some Denon D5000s (markl-modded). I was initially a little worried about how these 'phones would do with this amp based on some of Skylab's comments in his initial review. Well, not trying to be contradictory by any means, but I don't think this is a problem. The Jade + D5000 combo is really *really *nice - in fact these will be replacing my beloved K701s, but that's another story... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Glad to hear this amp works so well with the MD5000s. I love my MarkL headphones and I am thinking of ordering this amp for them. Joe has quoted me a reasonable price ($27) for adding a remote control to the Jade, which actually requires a slightly larger chassis. It is hard to find a headphone amp with remote control especially in this price range. I listen from across the room and the music on my computer used as a server varies a lot in volume, so a remote is almost a necessity.


----------



## driftingbunnies

wow that would be nice to have a remote. I checked the website but the list of options are not up. Audiotailor, do you think you can list the options again and how much each of them costs? Thanks


----------



## userlander

I think I'm really interested in this amp - how do you order one? Just email sales@audiotailor.com? For $300 shipped it seems like a no-brainer compared to DV336. 

 One question - haven't read the whole thread yet - how does this amp do with low impedance cans like grado/alessandro?


----------



## driftingbunnies

from what I recall they do pretty well with low impedance.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does this amp do with low impedance cans like grado/alessandro?_

 

Read post #531, a few pages back.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_from what I recall they do pretty well with low impedance._

 

Reading through more of the thread now... yes, supposedly they do okay with grados (and presumably alessandros). 

 I just emailed them though and it bounced with a fatal error from "mx1.vizztech.com." But I also got an auto message from audiotailor.com saying they would contact w/in 24-hrs. So did it go through, or not?


----------



## PaulyT

You might try sales @ tubehifi . com - I got some responses from that address. Joe also seems to monitor this thread, so he may get back to you here...


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thinking about celebrating Christmas early this year with a pair of either DT880/600, DT900/600 or HD650. All three apparently goes well with the Jade. God knows DT800/250 doesn't._

 

Okay, up to p.27 and I see this about the DT880/250, which is what I'm intending to buy the Jade for initially. It seems counterintuitive to me that the 250 ohm 880s would sound bad with this amp. Anyone care to comment? Is it true that there's just no synergy with those phones for some reason?


----------



## Mofferino

userlander:

 I'm sure they sound great with the Jade - IF - you already like the sound signature of those exact phones. Personally I hate the DT800 and swapped them with a pair of HD650 some time ago. The Jade is awesome and if you pair it with phones you already like, then I'm sure you're gonna be alright


----------



## BigTony

Well after first reading this thread I was intrigued, a '2-for-1' headamp sounded too good to be true. As the thread gathered pace there were a bunch of minor problems, and as I wasn't planning to replace my DV332 I kept a watching brief. I had set my heart of the DV337, but there was just going to be no way I could accomodate that amp in my setup - no room.

 One thing that had always kept my interest was the 'you can run this amp in balanced mode' i.e. the ability to feed your cans from the cathode to the anode, rather than either or. Having the HD650, and the cable costing just $30 if bought with the Jade I was left wondering.

 Fast forward to 'hummmmm' that was a big no-no for me, I get annoyed with the ticking of a clock, so humm-free was a dead cert. Then came news of a fix, an upgraded PCB, and a drop in price ($340 for Jade + HD650 cable, inc. shipping to the UK) and all of a sudden I was looking at my paypal account and I noticed that all the gear I'd been selling off had left me with a nice little balance that I could convert to a Jade.

 So, I e-mailed Joe on Sunday, got a reply on Sunday, paid for the amp on Monday am, collected it yesterday (4 days HK-UK - a new record).

 First impression: much bigger than it looks in the pictures, bigger than my DV332 (and I thought that was a big amp) - and the 6AS7G is a monster - its a headphone amp not a nuclear power station! Atm its playing away to my DT770 cans while I let it settle into its new home. Sonic wise, it seems a little drier than the DV332, less bass, maybe even more 'solid-state' but then its only been on for a few hours, and I've not really had a long listen.

 Good points : NO HUMMMMM, no hiss, no crackles, nada.. totally silent - which is very nice, tubes can have a tendency to humm and the like, but this is silent. Its a very nice looking amp too, better looking than the DV. I also prefer the on/off at the back of the amp. The HD650 balanced cable looks tidy and well made, not had chance to plug it in yet, thought I'd let the amp warm-up first.

 Bad points: The manual.. not terribly helpful.

 So a few question to the early adopters:

 Balanced mode - I assume I can run a regular extension cable on each of the leads? I sit about 3m away from my amp, and the cable is too short (if the balanced mode blows my socks off I'll get a cable made to length) so I need something short term (by short term I mean a month - thats usually how long it takes me to decide if I like something or not).

 Tubes: What are good tube rolling options? If read that the GEC 6AS7G and Sylvania 5751 are a good start, but my current searches seem to bring up a mountain fo Svetlana 6AS7G tubes for Russia (being in europe these are cheap to pick-up), more esoteric are the JAN Raytheon 6080WB (and more expensive), as well as RCA and Rohre brands - as these tubes are quite large there not so easy to hide away, so my options are more limited on numbers. For 5751 i've only Phillips and GE, no Sylvania, but as the 12AX7 there are the usual suspects (I have some Electro Harmonix from my guitar amp!) as well as Sovteck, Tung-Sol (Gold pin). I also have some 5771 Electro Harmonix - Low Gain - are they suitable for this amp? And would I be correct in assuming that the 5751 is the low gain variant of the 12AX7 tube?

 There are two sets of RCA's on the rear, and a switch. Does that mean 2 sets of inputs? or 1 input 1 pass through, or 1 input and 1 preamp out. The switch seltcts... ... like I said the manual is not quite up-to-date.

 I realise that this post has evolved... but any help will be greatfully recieved.

 And I'd like to add that Joe from Audiotailor has been very reponsive to my e-mails, been a great buying experience.

 Tony


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well after first reading this thread I was intrigued, a '2-for-1' headamp sounded too good to be true. As the thread gathered pace there were a bunch of minor problems, and as I wasn't planning to replace my DV332 I kept a watching brief. I had set my heart of the DV337, but there was just going to be no way I could accomodate that amp in my setup - no room.

 One thing that had always kept my interest was the 'you can run this amp in balanced mode' i.e. the ability to feed your cans from the cathode to the anode, rather than either or. Having the HD650, and the cable costing just $30 if bought with the Jade I was left wondering.

 Fast forward to 'hummmmm' that was a big no-no for me, I get annoyed with the ticking of a clock, so humm-free was a dead cert. Then came news of a fix, an upgraded PCB, and a drop in price ($340 for Jade + HD650 cable, inc. shipping to the UK) and all of a sudden I was looking at my paypal account and I noticed that all the gear I'd been selling off had left me with a nice little balance that I could convert to a Jade.

 So, I e-mailed Joe on Sunday, got a reply on Sunday, paid for the amp on Monday am, collected it yesterday (4 days HK-UK - a new record).

 First impression: much bigger than it looks in the pictures, bigger than my DV332 (and I thought that was a big amp) - and the 6AS7G is a monster - its a headphone amp not a nuclear power station! Atm its playing away to my DT770 cans while I let it settle into its new home. Sonic wise, it seems a little drier than the DV332, less bass, maybe even more 'solid-state' but then its only been on for a few hours, and I've not really had a long listen.

 Good points : NO HUMMMMM, no hiss, no crackles, nada.. totally silent - which is very nice, tubes can have a tendency to humm and the like, but this is silent. Its a very nice looking amp too, better looking than the DV. I also prefer the on/off at the back of the amp. The HD650 balanced cable looks tidy and well made, not had chance to plug it in yet, thought I'd let the amp warm-up first.

 Bad points: The manual.. not terribly helpful.

 So a few question to the early adopters:

 Balanced mode - I assume I can run a regular extension cable on each of the leads? I sit about 3m away from my amp, and the cable is too short (if the balanced mode blows my socks off I'll get a cable made to length) so I need something short term (by short term I mean a month - thats usually how long it takes me to decide if I like something or not).

 Tubes: What are good tube rolling options? If read that the GEC 6AS7G and Sylvania 5751 are a good start, but my current searches seem to bring up a mountain fo Svetlana 6AS7G tubes for Russia (being in europe these are cheap to pick-up), more esoteric are the JAN Raytheon 6080WB (and more expensive), as well as RCA and Rohre brands - as these tubes are quite large there not so easy to hide away, so my options are more limited on numbers. For 5751 i've only Phillips and GE, no Sylvania, but as the 12AX7 there are the usual suspects (I have some Electro Harmonix from my guitar amp!) as well as Sovteck, Tung-Sol (Gold pin). I also have some 5771 Electro Harmonix - Low Gain - are they suitable for this amp? And would I be correct in assuming that the 5751 is the low gain variant of the 12AX7 tube?

 There are two sets of RCA's on the rear, and a switch. Does that mean 2 sets of inputs? or 1 input 1 pass through, or 1 input and 1 preamp out. The switch seltcts... ... like I said the manual is not quite up-to-date.

 I realise that this post has evolved... but any help will be greatfully recieved.

 And I'd like to add that Joe from Audiotailor has been very reponsive to my e-mails, been a great buying experience.

 Tony_

 

 2 Set of RCA in Parallel , Input Line signal from One set of RCA & out from other set of RCA outut to integrated amp or Pre-amp. Switch is select between RCA & 3.5mm Jack.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading through more of the thread now... yes, supposedly they do okay with grados (and presumably alessandros). 

 I just emailed them though and it bounced with a fatal error from "mx1.vizztech.com." But I also got an auto message from audiotailor.com saying they would contact w/in 24-hrs. So did it go through, or not? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You also can contact me by :

13902625251@139.com

hzasl@21cn.net


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First impression: much bigger than it looks in the pictures, bigger than my DV332 (and I thought that was a big amp) - and the 6AS7G is a monster - its a headphone amp not a nuclear power station!_

 

What exactly are the dimensions of this amp? HxWxD isn't listed on the website. I recall a post somewhere mentioning it was around 10" high I think, but I can't find it now. Anyone care to do some quick measurements and post the dimensions?


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mofferino* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_userlander:

 I'm sure they sound great with the Jade - IF - you already like the sound signature of those exact phones. Personally I hate the DT800 and swapped them with a pair of HD650 some time ago. The Jade is awesome and if you pair it with phones you already like, then I'm sure you're gonna be alright 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I see - thanks for clarifying. From the way it was worded, it seemed like you were saying all the other phones sounded great with it, but the 880/250s didn't for some reason. If it's just a personal preference thing, I shouldn't have a problem since I really like the 880/250s (and think I would probably like the 880/600s even more), and don't particularly like senns.


----------



## PaulyT

Sure, with the tube cage on, it's about 8.5" high, 11" deep counting volume knob and rear jacks, 7.5" wide. And weighs roughly 10 lbs.

 There is a Jade tube rolling thread... mostly my own experiences, but some others have chimed in. I would stick with 6AS7G/5998 and 12AX7/5751, but I'm not so familiar with other near variants of these to know if there are others that would work.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure, with the tube cage on, it's about 8.5" high, 11" deep counting volume knob and rear jacks, 7.5" wide. And weighs roughly 10 lbs._

 

omg - that's a monster. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know if I would have room for it in my listening space. 

 If someone can assure me it would definitely sound leagues better than something like a LD Mk III/IV, Millet mini, DV336, etc. I might just try to accommodate it somehow, but otherwise I might have to go with one of these physically smaller amps.


----------



## Skylab

It's really only very marginally bigger than a DV 336SE, and definitely does sound better, and especially with lower impedance headphones.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's really only very marginally bigger than a DV 336SE, and definitely does sound better, and especially with lower impedance headphones._

 

Oh really - DV is fairly large also, huh? Just from the various web pics I was under the impression it was something more like around 4" wide (which believe it or not makes a big difference over 7.5"!) and just generally smaller. I probably would have chosen Jade over DV anyway just on price/performance reasons, but the LD and Millet mini are *definitely* more user friendly in this space, and very tempting because of that. 

 Joe, you've got to work on some smaller enclosures!


----------



## Skylab

Boy you'd be in trouble with most of the tube amps I use then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I consider the 336 and Jade to be "mini-amps"!


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Boy you'd be in trouble with most of the tube amps I use then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I consider the 336 and Jade to be "mini-amps"!_

 

heh heh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can probably make the Jade work, I was just a little caught off guard at first, not having expected it to be quite that size. It's going to be hard to pass up for $300 shipped, that's for sure.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Are there still upgrade options to the jade?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh really - DV is fairly large also, huh? Just from the various web pics I was under the impression it was something more like around 4" wide (which believe it or not makes a big difference over 7.5"!) and just generally smaller. I probably would have chosen Jade over DV anyway just on price/performance reasons, but the LD and Millet mini are *definitely* more user friendly in this space, and very tempting because of that. 

 Joe, you've got to work on some smaller enclosures! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 It is hard to reduce size due to transformers & tube size. May be can build a new model with double desk !


----------



## Mofferino

The tube cage does indeed make the Jade appear like a monster. Remove it and save a lot of space. However it looks so damn cool with it on


----------



## BigTony

Just thought I'd add my random thoughts while I hunt down some NOS tubes (got my hands on some Sylvania 5751's and Chatham 6AS7G's and Mullard 12AX7's) - after leaving the amp on for 24 hours and dipping in/out for a few hours with my HD650's in SE mode. 
 Soundstage is still a little cramped, but the detail level is very high, I played the MFSL Equinox last night (one of my favourite critical listening CD's) and it was beginning to sound very nice, nice bass, not bloated. Only using the right-hand output (tubey) and I will go balanced mode today.
 I'm hoping that some better tubes in there will open the soundstage up, and possible more time warming these tubes in too. Still, a very decent amp, enjoying mysef atm - which is what its all about.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just thought I'd add my random thoughts while I hunt down some NOS tubes (got my hands on some Sylvania 5751's and Chatham 6AS7G's and Mullard 12AX7's) - after leaving the amp on for 24 hours and dipping in/out for a few hours with my HD650's in SE mode. 
 Soundstage is still a little cramped, but the detail level is very high, I played the MFSL Equinox last night (one of my favourite critical listening CD's) and it was beginning to sound very nice, nice bass, not bloated. Only using the right-hand output (tubey) and I will go balanced mode today.
 I'm hoping that some better tubes in there will open the soundstage up, and possible more time warming these tubes in too. Still, a very decent amp, enjoying mysef atm - which is what its all about._

 

Have people found that this amp requires a lot of "burn in?" It seems like it would need relatively little, compared to something like a Compass, for example. 

 Just ordered mine -- now off to find some tubes.


----------



## sizwej

Sorry if this has already been answered in the thread, but i'm curious to know how effectively the jade can drive high impedance/low sensitivity cans (hd650/k701).i'm interested in the jade, but only if it has enough power push my hardest cans.


----------



## PaulyT

Actually, the lower the impedance the more current the amp needs to generate... so generally high impedance are easier to drive, I think, at least for tube amps, not sure if the same applies to ss. And K701 @ 62ohm is not exactly high impedance, though higher than some.

 Anyway I used K701s with the Jade for many months (until my recent switch to D5000), and it handled it great.


----------



## BigTony

It has no trouble with my HD650's. Sounding very sweet.


----------



## Mofferino

BigTony:

 Looking forward to hearing your opinion on the balanced cable. Are you currently using the HD650 stock cable?

 I was thinking about trying the balanced cable as well. Not sure if I should expect an improvement compared the Blue Dragon cable Im currently using.


----------



## userlander

I don't know much about electronics so correct me if I'm wrong, but this is remarkably "clean" work, isn't it? 







 Although I could take some of the screws not overlapping each other.

 I'm also amazed at the apparent simplicity of the design - simple is good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The PCB even says "Jade" on it - you must have these custom made just for your amps - is that usual? Like I said, I don't know electronics, but it just seems to scream "quality." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, do those black covers in back come off? It would be kind of cool to be able to show the heatsinks (if that's in fact what's under there), like in the mini millet.


----------



## PaulyT

The two black covers on the back have ugly transformers/chokes underneath - nothing pretty/sexy like that millet. Yeah, the build quality of these seems fine (I'm not an e.e. but I've done a number of projects using custom circuit boards, soldering on the components myself), obviously hand-soldered but that's probably better than machine anyway given the unreliability of machine solder joints. The inside of the Jade is pretty spacious, though, so that makes it easier to keep things tidy.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two black covers on the back have ugly transformers/chokes underneath - nothing pretty/sexy like that millet._

 

Oh, too bad - still, it looks pretty sexy, and even better with that bad@ss cage!


----------



## driftingbunnies

userlander- did you order any upgrades with your jade or did you just get the stock version?


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_userlander- did you order any upgrades with your jade or did you just get the stock version?_

 

Just stock. Upgradeable power cord comes standard now, right? And Neutrik jacks, or is that an upgrade? Is there a list of the current available upgrades anywhere?


----------



## driftingbunnies

lol i don't know. I've been asking for the past two pages but no response. I guess they're not really worth it if nobody knows.


----------



## PaulyT

It's in here, you just gotta dig (ya, it's a long thread). See post #478.

 Edit: If there's something you want not listed, Joe'll probably be able to do it for you on a one-by-one basis... seems that's kind of his niche, being able to tailor it to suit - hence the name.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's in here, you just gotta dig (ya, it's a long thread). See post #478.

 Edit: If there's something you want not listed, Joe'll probably be able to do it for you on a one-by-one basis... seems that's kind of his niche, being able to tailor it to suit - hence the name._

 

Alps volume control looks like a good option - those aren't the ones with "clicks" are they? I think I read some reports here of the stock volume pots being a little scratchy, but maybe that's been fixed since then. 

 Do all neutrik jacks have that annoying clip like on the Compass? Or can you specify one without that? If it's not too late, I might ask Joe for a couple of these upgrades.


----------



## PaulyT

Mine is pure stock, I don't have any problem with the volume pot during regular use. Occasionally I hear a tiny bit of noise if I turn it way up (nothing playing) when the amp is first turned on, but I think that may have more to do with the tubes warming up - not microphonics exactly, but more sensitivity? Not sure. My Chatham tube is *very* microphonic for a couple minutes when it comes on, but this isn't affected by the volume pot - and is much louder than anything from the pot.


----------



## driftingbunnies

So if I were to get all the upgrades it would be 395 after paypal. Do any of the upgrades greatly affect the sound? It seems to me that some of the stuff is just for bragging rights and doesn't really do anything except maybe making your life a little easier like the RCA inputs.


----------



## PaulyT

I'm pretty much of the same opinion - that few of these would change anything. The coupling caps, maybe, since that's an important electronic component in the direct path of the signal before it's amplified. But I'm not a believer in fancy jacks, cables, etc. And who cares if the volume pot occasionally makes a tiny noise? Not like you're sitting there twirling it about while listening...


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm pretty much of the same opinion - that few of these would change anything. The coupling caps, maybe, since that's an important electronic component in the direct path of the signal before it's amplified. But I'm not a believer in fancy jacks, cables, etc. And who cares if the volume pot occasionally makes a tiny noise? Not like you're sitting there twirling it about while listening..._

 

Makes sense. I guess I'll stick with stock, too. Maybe too many "upgrades" would affect the Jade "magic" anyway.


----------



## koven

Upgrade parts :

 neutrik black Jack. - US$12
 Coupling Cap : Infinite US$40 
 Alps 27mm Volumn : US$15
 Composite teflon sockets US$10 (Blue color)
 RCA Input - 2 Set (no 3.5mm Input jack) - US$5
 Balance cable for HD600 - US$30
 Balance Cable for K702US$35

 not sure if prices have changed though, this was in august


----------



## BigTony

Initial thoughts on the HD650 balanced : Very nice .. very very nice .. To try and be more specific, there is more of that 'etheral' qualty to the sound - more 3D, greater depth forward and backwards; instrument separation is also extremly good. With the stock tubes the soundstage is still a little tight around the head, but that may change with new tubes and more time. Biggest difference is bass impact, it doesn't sound louder, but it carries more weight - Come Together by the Beatles really pops out at you. Very clean treble, not to bright (as if that were possible with the HD650!) very strong mids. Some people have complained that with the Beatles 2009 Remasters that he vocals are too far forward - but thats not the case here - very nice balance. After a few hours with the HD650 I switched to the HF-2 in the left-hand jack, and they sounded a world apart - it was hard getting used to the sound - still bright and pounchy, with good bass, but cramped soundstage (I also switched the gain to low for all, btw).

 I'd have to say that the HD650 were sounded as good if not better than from out of the DV332, albiet the DV332 has a better soundstage - but then again I have some nice tubes in the DV332 and I'm still running stock on the Jade. I have a set of EH 12AX7 tube for my guitar amp - might just give that a whirl tonight.

 Given that I don't want to sit ontop of my amp while I use the balanced cable, I'm going to get a longer cable made (or make it myself). Would I be correct assuming that I take the Right Chanel from the RHS +ve and connect that to the Right Channel LHS -and vice versa?

 As for my HD650 cable - I'm still on stock; I have heard some upgraded cables on a HD650 - but I never found the cable to change the sound anything like as much as changing tubes etc, so I stuck with stock. Now that there is a huge difference between a stock cable and a balanced cable, I'll go the full monty and get a nice cable made up.

 One last thing of note : Running in balanced mode there seemed to be alot more sound, more energy, but not 'louder' if that makes sense (it clearly was louder but I don't have any meters except my ears) - I find if I crank up the volume it gets louder and my ears start to warm me very quickly - but when in balanced mode, my eears seemed happy while that bass was thumping.. maybe someone can expalin that? and finally - being one that is cursed with sibilance .. in balanced mode there was a great deal less of it - that and bass impact were the two things I noticed within seconds - I had to start to listen for sibilance rather than whincing all the time.

 Anther patented early moring ramble.


----------



## Hz_joe

What length of balance cable is reasonable ? Standard length if HD600/650 is 1.8M , Length can tailor to your need. Upgrade cost for 0.5M is only US$5

 K702 balance cable is available now. Buy together with Audiotailor amplifier US$38/Pcs only.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Initial thoughts on the HD650 balanced : Very nice .. very very nice .._

 

Thanks for those impressions. Keep us posted on the soundstage. I am interested to know if that opens up more when you get different tubes.


----------



## PaulyT

Tubes definitely made a difference for me (see that rolling thread I already mentioned), in soundstage, imaging, clarity, etc. - all basically the same thing I think.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tubes definitely made a difference for me (see that rolling thread I already mentioned), in soundstage, imaging, clarity, etc. - all basically the same thing I think._

 

Which are you using now? Sylvania preamp and Chatham power tube?


----------



## PaulyT

Raytheon 5751 (the "windmill getter" type), and Chatham 6AS7G.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What length of balance cable is reasonable ? Standard length if HD600/650 is 1.8M , Length can tailor to your need. Upgrade cost for 0.5M is only US$5

 K702 balance cable is available now. Buy together with Audiotailor amplifier US$38/Pcs only._

 

My HD650 came with a 3 M cable - been spoiled!


----------



## BigTony

Well I have found an unusual winning combination last night.
 The stock 6AS7G tube (not recieved a replacement yet) and an Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tube - this has much less gain than the stock Chinese tube the amp comes with - and ran the HF-2 in the left-hand output - wow .. really rocking - very impressive match-up.
 The bass was tight, not quite as much impact as the HD650's, very smooth treble - again very little to no sibilance - which is a pretty good match as the HF-2 have quite alot of treble energy. The soundstaging was the best I'd heard with the HF-2, much less 'in-your-face' (or should that be 'in-your-ears'?) a quick little listening session lasted for 3 hours, which really says something.

 Not sure why the EH 12AX7 has such a lower gain than the tubes already in there - but I had pulled them from my guitar amp as they were chocking the volume too much. Is it better to run with a low gain tube? And how do you know which are low gain and high gain?


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have found an unusual winning combination last night.
 The stock 6AS7G tube (not recieved a replacement yet) and an Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tube - this has much less gain than the stock Chinese tube the amp comes with - and ran the HF-2 in the left-hand output - wow .. really rocking - very impressive match-up.
 The bass was tight, not quite as much impact as the HD650's, very smooth treble - again very little to no sibilance - which is a pretty good match as the HF-2 have quite alot of treble energy. The soundstaging was the best I'd heard with the HF-2, much less 'in-your-face' (or should that be 'in-your-ears'?) a quick little listening session lasted for 3 hours, which really says something.

 Not sure why the EH 12AX7 has such a lower gain than the tubes already in there - but I had pulled them from my guitar amp as they were chocking the volume too much. Is it better to run with a low gain tube? And how do you know which are low gain and high gain?_

 

That's strange - I thought the 5751s were lower gain than the 12AX7s. Maybe it's enough higher gain to allow something else to come out without going over the top. ? 

 I have a couple Ruby 12AX7s from my guitar amp that sound heavenly, but I never even considered trying them because I thought it would be too much for the Jade. Maybe one of those will be worth a try with the stock 6AS7G? I'll post my impressions when it gets here - thanks for the report.


----------



## Skylab

The 5751 *are* lower gain than the 12AX7. If the EH 12AX7 has lower gain, it's likely because it's not up to spec.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 5751 *are* lower gain than the 12AX7. If the EH 12AX7 has lower gain, it's likely because it's not up to spec._

 

Now you've gone and done it, BigTony -- you've just created a huge market for old and out of spec electro harmonix tubes! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "I also have these NOS Sylvanias."

 "No thanks -- I'll take that used EH."


----------



## BigTony

Hummm .. like I said I pulled them from my Peavy guitar amp as they were too quiet.
 I'll try the other one and see if thats better - and these tubes looked so fresh and clean!
 Are there any other variants of the 12AX7 I should know about?

 Can't seem to get a 5751 Sylvania atm .. seems to be a very popular tube!


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 5751 *are* lower gain than the 12AX7. If the EH 12AX7 has lower gain, it's likely because it's not up to spec._

 

Bang on the money! Switched to another EH 12AX7 tube and volume was same as with the stock tube. I also noticed the 'quiet' tube hardly glowed.. no idea whats up .. best junk it.

 Hopefully i'll get lucky with some NOS 5751 .. i'm sure some headfier is sniping at my ebay auctions! Twice missed out over 1 dollar!


----------



## Skylab

You can buy Phillips 5751's for $25 each at Welcome to TubeDepot.com! - they are not the best 5751 ever, but they sound good, and are guaranteed NOS


----------



## shawn_low

Ran through the threads and not many comments on synergy with Grado cans?

 Saw lots of Senns, some Beyerdynamics and AKGs being paired with this amp. 

 Anyone have anything to say about this with Grado headphones?


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shawn_low* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ran through the threads and not many comments on synergy with Grado cans?

 Saw lots of Senns, some Beyerdynamics and AKGs being paired with this amp. 

 Anyone have anything to say about this with Grado headphones?_

 

I've been enjoying the HF-2 out of the Jade all week - really great sound - nice and punchy - lots of energy, no wallowing at all. I also have found the Jade to take the sting out of the top end of the HF-2, I don't find the treble too much at all, even when played at foot-stomping levels


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shawn_low* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ran through the threads and not many comments on synergy with Grado cans?

 Saw lots of Senns, some Beyerdynamics and AKGs being paired with this amp. 

 Anyone have anything to say about this with Grado headphones?_

 

With the two different outputs and the hi/lo gain switch, I would imagine there is a good amount of flexibility with this amp for different phones, including grado. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to get mine - should be here today or tomorrow, according to Joe.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shawn_low* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ran through the threads and not many comments on synergy with Grado cans?

 Saw lots of Senns, some Beyerdynamics and AKGs being paired with this amp. 

 Anyone have anything to say about this with Grado headphones?_

 

Jade can drive Grado cans without any problem. I had test it with SR325. We also will release a Up/Down Impedance converter. It can matching Output High impedance OTL Tube amp to become low output impedance. It will matching low impedance cans better. It also can stepup low impedance low voltage headphone amp to become high output voltage, high impedance. It will be easy to drive 600 Ohm low efficient Cans. 
 How it work ? It only 2 Pcs of Permalloy 4:1 transformers. It has 6.35mm Jack at primary of transformers , 6.35mm Jack at secondary. 

 High to low impedance : A cable with 6.35mm Jack at both end. Plug canble in 6.35 Jack of which connect to primary of transformers. Headphone Plug in secondary of transformers. 
 Low to high impedance : Reverse it is OK.


----------



## PaulyT

Interesting idea, Joe!


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ We also will release a Up/Down Impedance converter. It can matching Output High impedance OTL Tube amp to become low output impedance. It will matching low impedance cans better. It also can stepup low impedance low voltage headphone amp to become high output voltage, high impedance. It will be easy to drive 600 Ohm low efficient Cans. 
 How it work ? It only 2 Pcs of Permalloy 4:1 transformers. It has 6.35mm Jack at primary of transformers , 6.35mm Jack at secondary. 

 High to low impedance : A cable with 6.35mm Jack at both end. Plug canble in 6.35 Jack of which connect to primary of transformers. Headphone Plug in secondary of transformers. 
 Low to high impedance : Reverse it is OK._

 

WOW - sign me up for one of THOSE!


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade can drive Grado cans without any problem. I had test it with SR325. We also will release a Up/Down Impedance converter. It can matching Output High impedance OTL Tube amp to become low output impedance. It will matching low impedance cans better. It also can stepup low impedance low voltage headphone amp to become high output voltage, high impedance. It will be easy to drive 600 Ohm low efficient Cans. 
 How it work ? It only 2 Pcs of Permalloy 4:1 transformers. It has 6.35mm Jack at primary of transformers , 6.35mm Jack at secondary. 

 High to low impedance : A cable with 6.35mm Jack at both end. Plug canble in 6.35 Jack of which connect to primary of transformers. Headphone Plug in secondary of transformers. 
 Low to high impedance : Reverse it is OK._

 

That sounds amazing. I'm in for that!


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds amazing. I'm in for that!_

 

Of course I'd love one too! (even if I must admit I haven't the faintest idea of how it works, but I'll nod and stroke my beard sagely).


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Of course I'd love one too! (even if I must admit I haven't the faintest idea of how it works, but I'll nod and stroke my beard sagely)._

 

I get the principle, I'm just unclear on whether this is going to be a mod we can do, whether it is something requiring more extensive changes that actually mean a changed design for future Jades, whether it would be a separate output, or if it could be set up to be done from the outside with a flick of switch, etc. 

 Anyone who understands electronics care to clarify the implementation of this proposed feature a little more?


----------



## PaulyT

It sounds to me like Joe is talking about a simple external transformer, that you would put in between the existing output jack and your headphones. A "black box" with two female jacks, and the orientation - which side goes towards the Jade and which to the headphones - depends on whether you're doing the step-up or step-down to high/low impedance headphones.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds to me like Joe is talking about a simple external transformer, that you would put in between the existing output jack and your headphones. A "black box" with two female jacks, and the orientation - which side goes towards the Jade and which to the headphones - depends on whether you're doing the step-up or step-down to high/low impedance headphones._

 

Okay, sounds good! 

 So my Jade came today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, have been listening for a couple hours, too soon obviously to have anything but some initial impressions. Overall really nice, though -- very smooth, not a bad soundstage even out of the box and with stock tubes, imo. This is one solid amp physically, too. Appears to be very well constructed, has a really nice heft and weight to it, jacks look good, volume knob has a good feel to it. 

 I notice that I much prefer the left jack for the increased detail, airiness, stage, etc. Is that supposedly the more "SS" side? I also notice there's a much greater difference in output in the left jack when using the hi/lo gain switch than there is in the right side. Anyone care to explain the technical aspect of that? Just kind of curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking it would have slightly more power than it seems to. I can listen maxed out on the right side easily, and at about 4 o'clock when using the left jack, both with gain at high. Then again, I do like it loud. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My little portable easily goes as loud, but obviously there is not the overhead of the Jade and it starts distorting way before then (with the Beyers at least). No hint of distortion or anything like that with the Jade. Just good sonics and nice sense of fullness, warmth. and transparency. The highs really extend, but don't seem to ever get harsh. Bass could be slightly more full, imo, but I think the tubes probably need to be upraded to reach the full potential of the amp. Otherwise, I'm not getting any harshness at all, unless it's in the source material (some questionable mp3s). All kinds of genres are sounding great. I've just listened to everything from Baby Mammoth to Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue to Strawberry Fields Forever, New Order, Gorillaz, Thievery Corporation, Silversun Pickups (extra amazing for some reason - "lazy eye" - sounded really good), and even Ramones. All were no problem at all for the Jade. 

 I hear virtually no extraneous noise whatsoever, just the very faintest almost undetectable hum with the volume and gain maxed and my software volume also maxed -- iow, a non-issue. Volume wheel is likewise totally silent. No hint of that earlier problem some people reported. I haven't tried the Alessandros much with it yet, but the amp seemed in general just to "beef them up" a little. I'll check those out more this weekend. Right now I'm enjoying the Beyers too much with it (which I'll have to stop soon, since I've got them up for sale 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Nice amp!


----------



## driftingbunnies

sounds nice. I'm still debating whether or not to get one now or wait for christmas. Are you going to get a 600ohm beyer once your dt880's sell?


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay, sounds good! 

 So my Jade came today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, have been lisknob has a good feel to it. 


 I was thinking it would have slightly more power than it seems to. I can listen maxed out on the right side easily, and at about 4 o'clock when using the left jack, both with gain at high. Then again, I do like it loud.!_

 

Yikes!!! There is no way you should be able to max the amp whilst listening - i've only ever got as far as 12 O'clock and that was with a duff valve; it should also be much much louder than any portable - i'd check the valves.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *driftingbunnies* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sounds nice. I'm still debating whether or not to get one now or wait for christmas. Are you going to get a 600ohm beyer once your dt880's sell?_

 

That was the plan. But the 250s sound so great with the Jade I might even just keep them. I'm still debating. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yikes!!! There is no way you should be able to max the amp whilst listening - i've only ever got as far as 12 O'clock and that was with a duff valve; it should also be much much louder than any portable - i'd check the valves._

 

Maybe. It sounds pretty good, though. I do have a high tolerance for LOUD, and nothing sounds really wrong or unusual. And just to clarify, I don't listen on full at all times, but I'd say around 12-2 oclock for the left side. Right side I could probably listen easily around 2-4. Next step is to get better tubes anyway though, so I guess I'll find out more then.


----------



## PaulyT

It depends a lot on both the headphones and the particular recordings, too. With both K701 and D5000, I tend to listen mainly in the 12-2 o'clock range, especially with classical music recordings that are less compressed and hence quieter on average. I almost always have to turn it way down for rock/jazz. And of course there's the output level of the source to consider. Many variables...


----------



## Skylab

WOW, you guys listen LOUD. I never once got even close to 12:00 with the Jade.

 One word of caution - if you are needing that much volume with the stock tubes, don't get a 5751 for the driver tube, as it has less gain than a 12AX7, and you might find it doesn't have enough for you.

 If you feel you want more output, get a 5998 power tube.


----------



## PaulyT

Actually I don't listen that loud... and yeah, I've got a 5751 so I have to turn it up a bit sometimes. As I said, a lot of (indeed most) classical music recordings play way softer than almost any rock album. And the lower-impedance headphones (like K701 or D5000) also require a bit more juice.


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## userlander

What's notable about the volume issue is that while it's fun to crank it once in a while, just to hear what it can do, the Jade sounds equally good at lower volumes. To me that's a mark of a fundamentally good amp, meaning you're not confusing power output with sound quality, but are getting very good detail, fullness, and dynamics even at the lower power levels. The Jade definitely has that.


----------



## BigTony

UPDATE : Jade with HD 650 in Balanced Mode :-

 Well after a week of settling down and getting some longer cables, I was able to spend some quality time with the HD 650's in Balanced mode. As i'm still waiting on tube upgrades (why is the post so slow sometimes!) so atm I have the stock 6AS7G tube and an Electro Harmonix 12AX7 tube.

 So, balanced vs SE :- When I first switched to balanced I went 'Wow' the difference was really apparent - lots more oomph, especially in the bass - you could feel those low notes - whilst not being too loud (I run in balanced at 8-9 O'clock - how some people wind this up to over 12 is beyond me) and there was a distinct feeling of a more openness to the sound. Tracks with double vocals dubbed - you could hear both vocals - there seemed to be more space between them. As for the mids - this was very clear, with no sharpness - plenty of instrument seperation. The real revelation is in the top end - no sibilance, no harshness - very smooth but powerful treble. 

 So I felt it was time to throw the book at these cans - to see what they can do :- So with music ranging for Rage Against the Machine - RAtM, FZ Zoot Allures, Lee Morgan Sidewinder, Johnny Winter The Progressive Blues Experiment, The Beatles Mono and Stereo Remasters, Dylan Bootleg Series 8, The Kinks Low Budget, PF - The Wall and a healthy slice of Bach and Beethoven - the results were just stunning - everything was full bodied and lush; clean, clear and revealing. But was this just 'new toy euphoria'? I popped in my DT770/pro in SE and sat back .. and wondered where the bass had gone! Yup - the bass was there alright, but now the impact and feel was lost. There was clearly more bass from the HD 650, and deeper. Swapping out for the HF-2's - which had surprised me first time I hooked them upto the Jade - still great sound, punchy bass and crunchy top end - but again the HD-650 were the clear winners.

 So the final test was to hook the HD 650 back into SE mode.. and it was like knocking off 15% of the performance - everything was there, but it sounded like it was being held back.

 So now I'm waiting for my new tubes, and hopefully these will openup the soundstage a little, as I find the soundstage isn't as expansive as it was with the DV 332.

 And as a test I turned my Jade upto 3 O'clock with my cans sat down - and guys, if you're listening to music that loud for even a short period of time, you're going to ruin your hearing - thats not a 'loud volume' its deafening - seriously. Like I mentioned, when I ran my faulty 12AX7 tube it sounded perfect but at quarter volume of the good 12AX7.


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## driftingbunnies

It seems like Joe does not want my business. I've sent him emails to both of the email addresses he provided but I haven't gotten a response yet. It's been about 3 days. Has anyone else have the same experience?


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## Skylab

Keep in mind that with the time differences, China has been on weekend since Friday morning USA time. 3 days overstretching a weekend really isn't a lot.


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## Hz_joe

I'm sorry ! We are in National holiday & go out to mounten side for camping and offroad drive. I had reply all email today already. Please send me email again if not received it. (Holiday in China from 1 Oct to 9 Oct.) I will reply email and message if I can reach internet by computer. Unfortunate Can don't have Mobile signal in Mountain side !


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## driftingbunnies

It's ok. I got a good deal from FS forum


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## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UPDATE : Jade with HD 650 in Balanced Mode :-
 There was clearly more bass from the HD 650, and deeper. Swapping out for the HF-2's - which had surprised me first time I hooked them upto the Jade - still great sound, punchy bass and crunchy top end - but again the HD-650 were the clear winners.

 So the final test was to hook the HD 650 back into SE mode.. and it was like knocking off 15% of the performance - everything was there, but it sounded like it was being held back._

 

BigTony: Thanks for the review. I have a quick question if you don't mind: how does the balanced node compare with the "cold" and "warm" outputs respectively? When you say more bass, do you mean more midbass (like the "warm" output) or more extension (like the "cold" output) or both?


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BigTony: Thanks for the review. I have a quick question if you don't mind: how does the balanced node compare with the "cold" and "warm" outputs respectively? When you say more bass, do you mean more midbass (like the "warm" output) or more extension (like the "cold" output) or both?_

 

In balanced mode there is much more bass extension, you can really feel the power in the bass, much more punch to drums and bass instruments, bass runs have considerable more focus and power, but not in a 'whoomfh' way (i.e. bloated bass) but in a measured control impact way (i.e. like standing in a room where an instrument is being played) - very much a live instrument feel to the sound.

 To be honest, I've always been a sceptic when it comes to balanced headphones - it seemed alot of overkill for very small return (i.e. balanced source, balanced amp, balanced cans) so with the option to try on th Jade with just a modified cable (and one that only set me back $30) was worth a punt, and I've been very impressed with the results, very impressed. It may not be 'balanced' enough for the purists, but it most certainly opens up the sound a great deal. Maybe its a combination made for HD 650's - really does seem to pull the best out of them. If this had been the only headamp I'd ever heard I'd be over the moon with the price/performance - but as I'm still; waiitng for new tubes and the magic 200 hours on this amp - I'm not sure how much better the amp will sound - experience has shown me that there is room for improvement with some better tubes/cans matching.

 Which reminds me .. must go pick up some NOS tubes from the post office.


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## sfmatt

Thanks a lot BigTony, I'm definitively sold on the balanced cable.

 As for the tubes there is definitvely much more to be heard from the Jade than with the stock tubes. Unfortunately the 2 tubes models are very popular and the prices are inflated. Still with $50 worth of tubes it's day and night compared with the stock tubes.


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## BigTony

Yeah, its been a struggle to get some nice tubes, but I finally have tracked down at sensible prices some Mullard and Brimar ECC83 NOS tubes, a nice pair of Sylvania 7025's and a set of RCA 6AS7G. 

 And then the Post Office in the UK goes on strike ..... timing is everything!


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot BigTony, I'm definitively sold on the balanced cable.

 As for the tubes there is definitvely much more to be heard from the Jade than with the stock tubes. Unfortunately the 2 tubes models are very popular and the prices are inflated. Still with $50 worth of tubes it's day and night compared with the stock tubes._

 

 We can not use unpopular tubes to made tube amps ! Some unpopular tubes is very cheap but can not continue supplier ! Yes ! 12AX7 is not cheap , Price continue to going up. It mean that - When you buy it will not loss when you not use and selling it out.


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## Skylab

I agree 100% with the above. Popular tubes are popular because they sound good. The 12AX7 at least has affordable current production versions as well as NOS/Vintage options.


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## BigTony

Its very good having an amp with popular tubes - then there are always going to be many around and they sound great too. However, as I've found out, you need to exercise a little more care in purchasing these tubes, there are some folk out there that are trying to make a killing selling junk as high end valves. As a mushroom hunting friend of mine used to say 'if your not 100% sure, then don't try it' - so if your not 100% sure that the tube is all its supposed to be, then look around for another; there are plenty about - just take your time and they will come.

 (PS I've found the vast majority of tube sellers are on the level - just learnt not to be hasty trying to get a great valve at a great price !)


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## Skylab

Well said!


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## sfmatt

Guys I hear you but it looks more like a double-edged sword to me, possibly because I was spoiled with opamp rolling before which I found much simpler to get into. With opamps:
you start with a much shorter list (even more so if you're not the soldering type). With tubes there are so many possibilities it's already hard to get an idea where to start.
 there are so many posts/comments on most of the opamps that you can come up with a really solid impression on how they sound. With tubes it's the opposite, the favorites get a gazillion over-positive comments while the others have been only tried by this one dude who says he prefers another tube.
at $5 for an opamp budget is not an issue, if you can afford a $300 amp you can easily spend $50-$100 trying to improve it. For tubes the cheap ones are $10-$30 and there are a lot of tubes at 10 times the price.

 Now I have a good combo (Chatham/Amperex), I spent over $100 to get there which is expected. Along the way I got some RCAs (4 of them on ebay, all of them dying after a few hours, I guess it's just bad luck) and some modern tubes which where not worth the try.
 The sound is excellent albeit very tubey/soft for my taste. I'd love to find some tubes to get a more "square" sound (kinda SS-like) which is rather uncommon among tube amp owners so I'm in the dark as to where to start. Now if they were unpopular tube models, I could get myself 10 tubes for another $100 and get much closer to wat I'm after. With popular tube models, the same $100 will get me 2-3 tubes, I'll be lucky if this is it 

 Anyway $30 for the cable is definitivelymy next best improvement!


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## Skylab

If you want a something that is less "tubey" sounding then you need to swap out the Amperex for something else. A Telefunken would be great, but that will cost a lot. A less expensive idea would be the JAN-Philips 5751, which will cost less than $30 and will definitely be a more "SS" sound (compare to the Amperex).


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## sfmatt

Thank you Skylab (for this and so many other useful posts).

 I have more or less given up on on 12AX7s and 5751s alltogether. Thanks to another one of your posts, I just started looking into 12AT7s and 12AU7s instead. Good NOS tubes can be found for $20 apiece (vs $80+ for the equivalent 12AX7 versions).

 Skylab/Joe I have a last question if you don't mind: between 12AT7 and 12AU7 which one is better suited for the Jade (or would both work equally well)?


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## Skylab

Joe would need to say if the Jade allows 12AU7 or 12AT7. I don't know. If so, I prefer the 12AT7 - sounds better in general, and often cheaper.


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## sfmatt

That was on page 6 of this thread:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry ! It is 12AX7 not 12AU7. Our staff forget to correct the diagram.
 I had test it with 12AT7 & 12AU7 today. It work fine on these tubes._

 

Thanks again Skylab, it also seems the 12AT7 is closer in specs to the 5751. Indeed the same brands/vintages on these tubes can be 10 times cheaper compared to 12AX7.


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## Hz_joe

12AX7 & 12AT7 is also good for Jade. 12AU7 seem to be too low gain !


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## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was on page 6 of this thread:


 Thanks again Skylab, it also seems the 12AT7 is closer in specs to the 5751. Indeed the same brands/vintages on these tubes can be 10 times cheaper compared to 12AX7._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_12AX7 & 12AT7 is also good for Jade. 12AU7 seem to be too low gain !_

 

Yup, the 12AT7 is definitely closer - it would be a much better choice. You can easily get NOS Mullard CV4024's (which is a 12AT7) for a very affordable price, and they are very good tubes - I;m using them in another amp (which is designed for the 12AT7).


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## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yup, the 12AT7 is definitely closer - it would be a much better choice. You can easily get NOS Mullard CV4024's (which is a 12AT7) for a very affordable price, and they are very good tubes - I;m using them in another amp (which is designed for the 12AT7)._

 

 We can supply Jade ultimate for 12AT7 tubes.


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## sfmatt

Thank you both. Being able to use the 12AT7s in the Jade is a bonanza for all of us on a budget. There are so many good tubes between $15-$40 that it's really hard to chose.

 Skylab: indeed the Mullard can be found at $30. Hell of a deal compared to the 12AX7 versions. You can find top notch Sylvanias, windmill getter Raytheons, buggle boy Amperexes for $30 or less. Way to go! Anyway I ordered one Mullard as well as an east-german 12AT7 (RFT) supposedly the most clinical of all, I'll let you know.


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## Skylab

Yeah the RFT is a pretty clinical sounding tube. The Telefunkens are close. Brimars and Mullards are nice and warm but still detailed; Tung-sols are BOLD. 

 But I like pretty much all the 12AT7's I have tried - I guess I should try one in the Jade.


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## BigTony

I've got a couple of Mullard and Brimar 12AT7's in the post - funny that while i'm waiting my 'Groove Tube' 12AX7 (from my guitar amp) is begining to sound great! 

 I'm now in need of a shallow draw to hide tubes in.


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## sfmatt

The RFT was my second choice after a Telefunken (the diamond ECC801S) but someone ordered the last one in stock just before me  . Anyway at less than $20 it's clearly worth a try.
 My current Amperex 5751 (closer to 12AT7 than 12AX7 in specs) sounds perfect if a little bit soft. I'm really curious to see how much difference there is between the Mullard and the Amperex after having read so many praises for the Mullard. They're the same price ($30).

 Not trying to force your hand or anything Skylab, but it would certainly be really useful (and save us Jade owners some money) if you found the time to try some of your 12AT7s in the Jade and let us know your impressions.

 PS: BigTony, I heeded your advice and ordered the balanced cable from Joe.


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## sfmatt

Actually I am dying to know how the 12AT7s (including the Mullard) compare against your Sylvania 5751 in the Jade since they are really expensive in comparison to most 12AT7s (lots of Sylvanias 12AT7s available under $20 btw).


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## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade can drive Grado cans without any problem. I had test it with SR325. We also will release a Up/Down Impedance converter. It can matching Output High impedance OTL Tube amp to become low output impedance. It will matching low impedance cans better. It also can stepup low impedance low voltage headphone amp to become high output voltage, high impedance. It will be easy to drive 600 Ohm low efficient Cans. 
 How it work ? It only 2 Pcs of Permalloy 4:1 transformers. It has 6.35mm Jack at primary of transformers , 6.35mm Jack at secondary. 

 High to low impedance : A cable with 6.35mm Jack at both end. Plug canble in 6.35 Jack of which connect to primary of transformers. Headphone Plug in secondary of transformers. 
 Low to high impedance : Reverse it is OK._

 

Just thought I'd check-up and see if this has progressed any further?
 My HD650's are welded to my Jade atm.. but it would be nice to prise them out once in a while and try the HF-2.


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## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My current Amperex 5751 (closer to 12AT7 than 12AX7 in specs) sounds perfect if a little bit soft. I'm really curious to see how much difference there is between the Mullard and the Amperex after having read so many praises for the Mullard. They're the same price ($30)._

 

What I find confusing is that Phillips manufactured tubes in the Netherlands (Heerlem plant) which are sold as Amperex (US), Mullard (UK), Valvo (EU), Dario(EU) - and when buying from ebay its hard/impossible to figure out which is which!


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## pekingduck

Hi Joe,

 I wonder if Jade would get any interference with wireless routers nearby (say within 1-2m radius)?

 Thanks


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## abellaw

Thanks skylab and everyone else for their helpful words. I have a cute beyond and i am looking to upgrade to a better amp. I have been pointed towards a WA6 but that is a little too expensive for me right now. Would i see a worthwhile improvement with a jade or should i just keep saving the pennies??


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## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Joe,

 I wonder if Jade would get any interference with wireless routers nearby (say within 1-2m radius)?

 Thanks_

 

My Jade is sitting next to my Squeezebox 3, ITouch and mobile phone - and i've not heard a peep from any of them, so i'd say iits pretty immune to rf/mw interference.


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## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Jade is sitting next to my Squeezebox 3, ITouch and mobile phone - and i've not heard a peep from any of them, so i'd say iits pretty immune to rf/mw interference._

 

Thanks Tony! I use Airport Express to stream music in my apartment so I wanted to make sure the Jade works well with the setup


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## BigTony

I dropped in a Brimar 12AT7 tube from the 1950's last night - very nice sound, really adds that missing something! Very full tone, still sparkling with strong bass.
 A good tube choice, and much cheaper than the 12AX7 options, even a Mullard 12AT7 is a fraction the price of a 12AT7. Didn't seem much less gain to me, still only turning the volume to 9 O'clock and its plenty loud enough for me.


----------



## ttan98

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dropped in a Brimar 12AT7 tube from the 1950's last night - very nice sound, really adds that missing something! Very full tone, still sparkling with strong bass.
 A good tube choice, and much cheaper than the 12AX7 options, even a Mullard 12AT7 is a fraction the price of a 12AT7. Didn't seem much less gain to me, still only turning the volume to 9 O'clock and its plenty loud enough for me._

 

12AT7 is not a direct replacement of 12AX7 even though it may work.


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## sfmatt

ttan98: please read the last couple of pages in the thread, 12AT7s have been confirmed to work perfectly well in the Jade. That's an extremely good news because they are less subject to speculation than 12AX7s meaning the equivalent tubes can be found many times cheaper.

 Following Skylab's advice I got a Mullard CV4024 ($30) and I also bought a 12AT7 RFT (an old east-german NOS tube for $17).
 Compared to my best tube so far, an Amperex 5751, there is no change in volume when I'm subtituting the tubes which was expected because the 5751 is a drop-in replacement for 12AX7 but has specs closer to 12AT7. The only difference (and I'm not sure even) is that the 12AT7s seem to glow slightly more.

 Soundwise the Mullard is similar to the Amperex with a bit more of everything. Brighter (but not bright), same lush mids and definitively more (rounded) bass. It's en excellent match for my HD600 but less so for HD650 which is already on the warm side and the combination brings too much of a good thing (rounded bass, warmth). It's the perfect tube for classical, very musical and not fatiguing at all (on the other hand electronica sounds a bit too relaxed with that tube though).

 On the RFT ($17) the first thing that comes to mind is wow! That is a mean tube. Very very tight to the point of being almost dry, a lot of treble detail and the bass packs a lot of punch while being really lean. My head was exploding listening to the HD600 with that tube, there was an energy overload, the bass was incredibly punchy but much too dry and the highs were piercing. But with HD650 it's a totally synergistic combination. They sound like HD600 should in an ideal world, the bass has punch and weight and goes very low, the mids are cristalline and the highs are textured and very detailed still without any hashness. Forget about the relaxed contemplative experience, it transforms the HD650 into a faster dynamic headphone, neutral and accurate but punchy at the same time without being overly aggressive. Bonanza: the combo works equilly (very) well on all kinds of music, classical, electronica, dub/reggae, blues/ rock. I got the tube 4 days ago and I must have already 50 hours on it, I keep trying other combos but after 10 minutes max I'm back to this one.

 I went to the last Bay Area meet to learn what perfection is about but I have to say the Jade is an amazing amp for the price considering how close it comes to top gear when using the right tube/headphone combo.

 Now on to the next step: the balanced cable. I tried to contact Joe but it looks like he's away for now.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ttan98: please read the last couple of pages in the thread, 12AT7s have been confirmed to work perfectly well in the Jade. That's an extremely good news because they are less subject to speculation than 12AX7s meaning the equivalent tubes can be found many times cheaper.

 Following Skylab's advice I got a Mullard CV4024 ($30) and I also bought a 12AT7 RFT (an old east-german NOS tube for $17).
 Compared to my best tube so far, an Amperex 5751, there is no change in volume when I'm subtituting the tubes which was expected because the 5751 is a drop-in replacement for 12AX7 but has specs closer to 12AT7. The only difference (and I'm not sure even) is that the 12AT7s seem to glow slightly more.

 Soundwise the Mullard is similar to the Amperex with a bit more of everything. Brighter (but not bright), same lush mids and definitively more (rounded) bass. It's en excellent match for my HD600 but less so for HD650 which is already on the warm side and the combination brings too much of a good thing (rounded bass, warmth). It's the perfect tube for classical, very musical and not fatiguing at all (on the other hand electronica sounds a bit too relaxed with that tube though).

 On the RFT ($17) the first thing that comes to mind is wow! That is a mean tube. Very very tight to the point of being almost dry, a lot of treble detail and the bass packs a lot of punch while being really lean. My head was exploding listening to the HD600 with that tube, there was an energy overload, the bass was incredibly punchy but much too dry and the highs were piercing. But with HD650 it's a totally synergistic combination. They sound like HD600 should in an ideal world, the bass has punch and weight and goes very low, the mids are cristalline and the highs are textured and very detailed still without any hashness. Forget about the relaxed contemplative experience, it transforms the HD650 into a faster dynamic headphone, neutral and accurate but punchy at the same time without being overly aggressive. Bonanza: the combo works equilly (very) well on all kinds of music, classical, electronica, dub/reggae, blues/ rock. I got the tube 4 days ago and I must have already 50 hours on it, I keep trying other combos but after 10 minutes max I'm back to this one.

 I went to the last Bay Area meet to learn what perfection is about but I have to say the Jade is an amazing amp for the price considering how close it comes to top gear when using the right tube/headphone combo.

 Now on to the next step: the balanced cable. I tried to contact Joe but it looks like he's away for now._

 

I'm alway there but mail server seem to be had trouble some time ! May be you can contact me by 13902625251@139.com 

 Additional Vitim on Jade - Permalloy impedance converter. If you had low impedance Cans. It will delivery more power, more clear mid & high, more tighten bass. We special offer to Jade users.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ttan98* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_12AT7 is not a direct replacement of 12AX7 even though it may work._

 

It draw a little more curreny than 12AX7 in same B+ & resistors value. It is no problem if loading impedance is not low. No need high driver voltage to next stage. It can ultimate to use 12AX7 by changing Plate & cathode resistor. We can tailor made on requet.


----------



## Hz_joe

6AS7/6080 can replace by 6SN7 if you want medium level & music don't have too much heavy bass. Jade also can work as Pre-amp when use 6SN7. I had try HD650. It can drive to medium to high level. SR325 to medium level. Working condition on 6SN7 is save. Plate to cathode only 145V , current around 6.5ma.


----------



## Skylab

Interesting - I will have to try that...


----------



## pekingduck

Skylab:

 Have you tried the DX1000 driven by the Jade? I am looking to buy either the JVC or the Denon D7000 and would like some impressions...thanks a lot


----------



## Skylab

The DX1000's sounded quite good with the Jade, yes.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_6AS7/6080 can replace by 6SN7 if you want medium level & music don't have too much heavy bass. Jade also can work as Pre-amp when use 6SN7. I had try HD650. It can drive to medium to high level. SR325 to medium level. Working condition on 6SN7 is save. Plate to cathode only 145V , current around 6.5ma._

 

Well, here's today's tube experiment: Brimar 6SN7GT and RFT 12AT7 with HD650. To my ears, an excellent combo! Very forward, very dynamic, very detailed. Will stick with this for a while I think!


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm alway there but mail server seem to be had trouble some time ! May be you can contact me by 13902625251@139.com 

 Additional Vitim on Jade - Permalloy impedance converter. If you had low impedance Cans. It will delivery more power, more clear mid & high, more tighten bass. We special offer to Jade users._

 

Joe, how much for the impedance converter (with shipping)?


----------



## Skylab

As soon as I get around to it I will try a 6F8G in the Jade (using a 6SN7 adapter). That could be fun


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, how much for the impedance converter (with shipping)?_

 


 US$100 - free shipping


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, here's today's tube experiment: Brimar 6SN7GT and RFT 12AT7 with HD650. To my ears, an excellent combo! Very forward, very dynamic, very detailed. Will stick with this for a while I think!_

 

I'm totally hooked to the sound of the RFT combined with HD650. What a punch! It brings the best out of the headphones, as you said dynamic and detailed. Really has to be heard to be believed. Best of all, it's one of the cheapest NOS tubes around.

 I'm waiting for the balanced cable to arrive but other than that the RFT has cured me from upgradeitis. Not from curiosity though


----------



## oldwine

i have a question, how can i put the 6SN7 to the 6AS7 socket as installed in Jade. is it mean i need to modify it again??


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oldwine* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have a question, how can i put the 6SN7 to the 6AS7 socket as installed in Jade. is it mean i need to modify it again??_

 

There's no need to modify! Both tubes use the same type of socket, so it's just a matter of finding a 6SN7 and plugging it in.


----------



## Skylab

The 6SN7 has the same base and pin configuration as the 6AS7. While they have very different operating points, Joe has indicated this will work OK in the Jade.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 6SN7 has the same base and pin configuration as the 6AS7. While they have very different operating points, Joe has indicated this will work OK in the Jade._

 

Yes ! 6AS7 & 6SN7 seem to be working condition is so far away but occationally. In same B+ Voltage , negative bias voltage just fit. It working at around 6.5ma. It is normal working point of 6SN7. I had test wave form & distortion , It look fine when driving 300 Ohm HD600/650.


----------



## jbergan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm totally hooked to the sound of the RFT combined with HD650. What a punch! It brings the best out of the headphones, as you said dynamic and detailed. Really has to be heard to be believed. Best of all, it's one of the cheapest NOS tubes around.

 I'm waiting for the balanced cable to arrive but other than that the RFT has cured me from upgradeitis. Not from curiosity though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am using the RFT with the "Chatman" or whatever its called, listening with my DT880's and its very punchy and forward. I thought that is what I wanted, but it may be a bit too much for me. It does have a lot less background noise and a much larger soundstage than the mystery tube I was using before.

 I think I need some more listening time before I jump to any conclusions though.


----------



## sfmatt

I have the same combo (Chatham + RFT). As much as I love it with HD650 because it energizes them exactly where they need it, I find it unbearable with HD600 after a short while because it made them excessively bright and forward. Even the bass had too much punch. I'm not surprised you find the combo too dynamic with DT880 as well.
 But with slightly dark headphones like HD650, it really does the trick. Works very well with DT150 and DT250 too for the same reason.

 Something I noticed is that the sound became more relaxed after a while. I don't know if it's because I got used to it or the tube opened a bit.


----------



## jbergan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Something I noticed is that the sound became more relaxed after a while. I don't know if it's because I got used to it or the tube opened a bit._

 

I like my music slightly bright and forward, so I am hoping this happens.


----------



## BigTony

I've finally (well until next week) settled on : Mullard 6080 and Brimar 12AT7 - really great with the HD-650; the bass has more punch - less sloppy than with the RCA 6AS7G tube, lots of details and a bigger soundstage. Very happy ..

 Next week I should be getting a Tung-Sol 6NS7 tube to play with, so I might chnage my mind again.


----------



## jbergan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've finally (well until next week) settled on : Mullard 6080 and Brimar 12AT7 - really great with the HD-650; the bass has more punch - less sloppy than with the RCA 6AS7G tube, lots of details and a bigger soundstage. Very happy ..

 Next week I should be getting a Tung-Sol 6NS7 tube to play with, so I might chnage my mind again._

 

Keep us updated. I am looking for a tube combo that has a good detail, soundstage, and air between the instruments.


----------



## sfmatt

Still waiting for the balanced cable but I love my Jade so much with the RFT 12AT7, my sleep time is regularly a few hours shorter!

 Since I was curious to see if I got lucky finding the RFT specifically or if it was the "german" sound that was magical with HD650, I wanted to give a try to another brand and see if I eventually I could improve things with more of the same goodness. Unfortunately the tube of my dreams (Telefunken ECC801S) is out of my price range. I was going to give a try to the Telefunken ECC81 but some more reading convinced me that I should try the Siemens ECC801S instead. It's a little bit above what I wanted to pay but I found a good price at $40 and it's my last 12X/T7 tube anyway, I think I have the full spectrum of possible sound signatures for those tubes pretty much covered already.

 I'll wait for the cable and probably give a try to one or two power tubes after that. Not that I don't like the Chatham but perhaps I can find a tube whose sound I like even more...
 Of course


----------



## sfmatt

Forgot to mention that as soon as I started looking for 6AS7G power tubes, the most comprehensive post was written of course by Skylab: Tubes Asylum - 6AS7G tube types explained... - Skylab - June 06, 2009 at 18:45:30

 Thanks again Skylab!


----------



## Skylab

Since I wrote that I have scored some 2399's. They are 100% identical to the 5998.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgot to mention that as soon as I started looking for 6AS7G power tubes, the most comprehensive post was written of course by Skylab: Tubes Asylum - 6AS7G tube types explained... - Skylab - June 06, 2009 at 18:45:30

 Thanks again Skylab!_

 

He's the Funk & Wagner of tube types that's for damn sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Peete.


----------



## sfmatt

Alas the 2399 is even harder to find than the 5998... possibly even harder than the WE 421A

 It looks like there are more, better/cheaper alternatives in the 6SN7 family.

 Anyway I found a NOS 1960s Sylvania 7236 for a decent price (cheaper than the TS 5998) and after a long period of observation, I went for it. From what I gathered the 7236 is the computer-oriented version of the 5998 so it should fit perfectly in the Jade.

 That's it, I've blown my tube allowance for the month!


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pricklely Peete* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He's the Funk & Wagner of tube types that's for damn sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peete._

 

BTW, that's a very cool avatar


----------



## Jazz9

Would the jade be a good pairing with the K601?

 The K601s are 120 Ohm so I don't know if they're a good match for it.
 I was mainly looking at ss amps (used c2c, ckkiii, shanling ph100) or hybrids (ef1) but the sale price of $300 shipped got me interested.

 I have to say I'm kinda reluctant to go the tube way because of the little inconveniences (having to change tubes, let the amp warm up, not being able to let it on for more than a few hours at a time, heat...) but if the jade is really better than the other ss amps I mentionned I guess it's worth it.

 I'm using a Zero Dac/amp (opa627/lt1364) for now and would like to upgrade it to something with a slightly fuller/more dynamic sound with more authority in the low end and a bigger soundstage.
 What I fear going with tubes is that I'll get a too syrupy/mellow/slow sound, but I don't know much about tubes so maybe my worries are unwarranted.

 And then there's the "tube rolling factor" to take into account and I don't think I'm one to spend a lot of cash on tubes. Are the stock ones decent enough or is replacing them a must?


----------



## Skylab

I'm not sure what the current stock tubes actually are - but if they are current production Chinese tubes, they should be replaced. But tube rolling if fun!

 I have never used the K601 with the Jade, but I cannot imagine any amp making them sound syrupy.


----------



## Jazz9

Thanks for the answer skylab.
 Would you say that impedance wise it's a good match?

 OTL amps are said to be better matches with high impedance cans and the K601 being 120ohm I'm having some doubts.
 K601s are not that popular here so I've looked for info on K701 amps instead and people recommend ss amp that can deliver a lot of current but then again the K701 is a little more efficient than the 601 and is only 62ohm.
 And they don't even sound the same...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 About the syrupy/mellow thing, having never a tube amp I have this (maybe false) idea that a tube amp is supposed to sound sweet/overly warm lacking in transparency, details, dynamics...
 And before tube lovers ask for my head, as I said, I've never heard a tube amp so I'm doing the stupid thing of commenting on something I don't know.

 About tube rolling, how much would I have to spend to get a good upgrade over the stock ones?
 Because if I have to spend $100 I think I'm gonna look elsewhere


----------



## Skylab

You can get better tubes for $50 easily. The Jade has some unique features to deal with lower impedance headphones, but 120 ohms really isn't very low anyway.

 If you think tube amps are all syrupy and overly warm, you will be very disappointed. Most modern tube amps are a little sweeter than many SS amps, but the difference is usually much less than people think in that regard, depending on the tubes used. Tubes do some other things very well which is why I like them. I also like that you can tailor the sound of the amp to a degree by tube rolling.


----------



## Jazz9

Sounds good.
 I just want a tad more warmth/body while maintaining a good sense of transparency and dynamics.
 My Zero is kinda harsh sounding and lacks refinement.


----------



## BigTony

I have found my Mullard 6080 coupled with a Brimar 12AT tube is a very lush sound with my HD650's - no harshness, oddles of bass impact, a nice soundstage.


----------



## Jazz9

Skylab could you tell me what you have in mind for a $50 upgrade in tubes?


----------



## gbacic

I've hear you can run these "balanced" some how. How does this work?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gbacic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've hear you can run these "balanced" some how. How does this work?_

 


 One jack + phase , other jack - phase , We made a special cable to use both jack.


----------



## Jazz9

I'm really hesitating between the Jade and the Shanling PH100...
 On one hand the PH100 is said to pair well with the K601 and being solid state I wouldn't have to take extra care of it (no warm up period, can power it off/on whenever I want to...).
 On the other hand there's the Jade with its attractive promotional price of $310 (against 250 for the Shanling) shipped...
 No idea how it pairs with the 601 specifically but reading through this thread and the ph100's I feel like the jade is the better amp...
 But then again I mainly listen to indie/alt.rock with some instrumental on the side and I don't know if a tube amp is a wise choice...


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really hesitating between the Jade and the Shanling PH100...
 On one hand the PH100 is said to pair well with the K601 and being solid state I wouldn't have to take extra care of it (no warm up period, can power it off/on whenever I want to...).
 On the other hand there's the Jade with its attractive promotional price of $310 (against 250 for the Shanling) shipped...
 No idea how it pairs with the 601 specifically but reading through this thread and the ph100's I feel like the jade is the better amp...
 But then again I mainly listen to indie/alt.rock with some instrumental on the side and I don't know if a tube amp is a wise choice..._

 

Just a heads up that if you get the shanling on ebay and do "make an offer," you can probably get it for even less than its listed price.  

 As for matching up, I've never heard 501/601/701 so I can't say which would be better, but if you definitely prefer a tube sound, you can't go wrong with the jade. I think technically it is the better amp. But if you like SS either for sound or convenience, the ph100 is a great entry/budget amp that I think would be hard to be dissatisified with, especially with it known to synergize well with the AKG phones.


----------



## Jazz9

Well the thing is I've never heard a tube amp so I have no idea what the "tube sound" is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To be honest I never really seriously considered the Jade until I saw in this thread that shipping was free until the end of the year.
 And what is really making me hesitate is, like you said, the fact that the Jade seems to be the "better" amp.
 Everybody in this thread likes their Jade and the same can be said from ph100's owners, but in the ph100 thread almost everybody agrees on the fact that the shanling is an "entry amp" (even you just said so) whereas the Jade seems to be above that.
 If you could briefly tell me how they differ in sound I'd appreciate it.

 And about the shanling on ebay, if I were to buy it I'd of course make an offer (if you know what the seller accepts do pm me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that is if you bought it from "listeningchina").


----------



## PaulyT

The Jade is pretty good with even the stock tubes. To really "push the envelope" to squeeze that last little 5% of SQ will take some tube rolling, but it's not essential. And yes, tube amps need a little more care than ss - they take a few minutes to warm up, probably don't want to turn them off and on a lot in a short space of time, try to avoid bumping it when the tubes are hot. But I've never heard anything against leaving them on for a while - I have mine on often ~8hrs a day while I'm working. As long as it's reasonably well ventilated so it doesn't overheat (e.g. not stuck in a drawer/cabinet), there's no problem there, I think.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the thing is I've never heard a tube amp so I have no idea what the "tube sound" is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 To be honest I never really seriously considered the Jade until I saw in this thread that shipping was free until the end of the year.
 And what is really making me hesitate is, like you said, the fact that the Jade seems to be the "better" amp.
 Everybody in this thread likes their Jade and the same can be said from ph100's owners, but in the ph100 thread almost everybody agrees on the fact that the shanling is an "entry amp" (even you just said so) whereas the Jade seems to be above that.
 If you could briefly tell me how they differ in sound I'd appreciate it.

 And about the shanling on ebay, if I were to buy it I'd of course make an offer (if you know what the seller accepts do pm me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, that is if you bought it from "listeningchina")._

 

There's probably tons of threads comparing ss to tube sound, and I don't want to derail the thread too much. Briefly, I might say that if you imagine a single note, on an SS amp that might tend to sound crisp, clear, precise, etc. On a tube amp, it might tend to sound more "rounded," which can give the impression of the sound being overall more "liquidy," full, slightly "thicker," etc. So *in general* a tube sound might have more perceived "fullness" or bloom to it, while an SS amp is more about emphasizing things like clarity, precision, speed. 

 When it comes to things like OTL tube vs. ss regarding impedance and so on, one might be a better choice than the other for your particular phones, too. In general, the way I've seen Skylab describe it is that high impedance phones do well with more voltage, which is a tube characteristic, while lower impedance phones do better with more current, which tends to be SS. But that is just very general, and I'm not an expert in any of that really - but again there are lots of threads that discuss it in more detail. Just something to think about. 

 Finally, I wouldn't get too hung up on terms like "entry level." They're both fine sounding and high quality amps for their respective classes (tube vs. ss). I wouldn't let that factor into the decision at all. If you start comparing either one of these vs. higher end amps then that kind of consideration might come into play, but at this level they are about "even" in that respect, imo. The Jade might have an edge, but I think it's more relevant what kind of sound you want than which is less "entry level."


----------



## Jazz9

Thanks again userlander, appreciate it.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jazz9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would the jade be a good pairing with the K601?

 The K601s are 120 Ohm so I don't know if they're a good match for it.
 I was mainly looking at ss amps (used c2c, ckkiii, shanling ph100) or hybrids (ef1) but the sale price of $300 shipped got me interested.

 I have to say I'm kinda reluctant to go the tube way because of the little inconveniences (having to change tubes, let the amp warm up, not being able to let it on for more than a few hours at a time, heat...) but if the jade is really better than the other ss amps I mentionned I guess it's worth it.

 I'm using a Zero Dac/amp (opa627/lt1364) for now and would like to upgrade it to something with a slightly fuller/more dynamic sound with more authority in the low end and a bigger soundstage.
 What I fear going with tubes is that I'll get a too syrupy/mellow/slow sound, but I don't know much about tubes so maybe my worries are unwarranted.

 And then there's the "tube rolling factor" to take into account and I don't think I'm one to spend a lot of cash on tubes. Are the stock ones decent enough or is replacing them a must?_

 

I'm running the JADE with K601's, K701's and HD-650, and it works well across the board. 

 As for tube and SS sound differences, the left output jack of the JADE is rather SS in character, I'd probably be hard pressed to distinguish it from any other decent SS amp. That said, I prefer the right output because i think it pushes the midrange into the foreground in a nice way. 

 the I have my amp at work and usually turn it on in the morning and off when I go home, which haven't resulted in any problems at all so far. I don't think warming is an issue either, I usually turn on the amp at the same time as I start the computer, and from what I can tell, the time from powering the computer on to getting some music playing is more than sufficient to get the amp going (the sound does not get "better" over the next few minutes). 

 Tube rolling I think is mostly for fun, there are sonic differences 
 between different tube setups, but it takes repeated listening to the same recording to identify them. I think the discussion in this thread has been mostly related to how different tube combos can get the JADE up on its toes, i.e. a little bit more forward rather than laid back in its music presentation. The overall sound signature is quite neutral, and different tubes seem less influential on that aspect.


----------



## sfmatt

May I respectfully disagree? I for one think that there is quite a lot of difference in sound between tubes. The RFT certainly does not sound at all like the warm tubes (Mullard, Amperex) which I agree all sound very similar to one another.
 I am sure the differences are more obvious for some music styles than for others. For example, the differences are immediately obvious (to me) with electronica, blues, reggae but not so much with classical music.

 What I really enjoy with the Jade is that there's a lot of ways to tweak the sound (2 outputs, rolling tubes, balanced cable). I'm also not too found of the "syrupy/mellow/slow" but that's no problem with the Jade. Use the "cold" output and a "cold" tube and the Jade will teach you what "authority" is about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I went to a local meet a couple months ago, lots of people demoed their unbelievable gear. You could listen to amazing amps paired with all the top headphones you can read about here. I came back thinking the Jade with HD650 was pretty close to what I heard there. And since I tweaked the sound to my liking, I'm more satisfied with the sound signature I get from it than most setups I heard (which I found on the bright side, wow for 10 minutes then ringing ears for the following 10 minutes).

 PaulyT: I wonder if we got the same stock tubes because mine were poor almost no sound below mid bass and piercing highs.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PaulyT: I wonder if we got the same stock tubes because mine were poor almost no sound below mid bass and piercing highs._

 

Interesting. No, I don't think mine was that bad. Who knows, though... they probably just toss in whatever spare tubes they have lying around, since they expect most will simply replace them anyway. Or you coulda just gotten a bum tube. I certainly think my rolling made a difference, but it requires some dedicated and careful listening to really sort through all the combinations, especially if you have several tubes of each type as I did (see the Jade tube rolling thread). It's not for the casual or faint of heart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it can be rewarding, and good ear training too.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Jade is pretty good with even the stock tubes._

 

x2 here. Mind you this is my very first tube amp and I have yet to start tube rolling


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a heads up that if you get the shanling on ebay and do "make an offer," you can probably get it for even less than its listed price.  

 As for matching up, I've never heard 501/601/701 so I can't say which would be better, but if you definitely prefer a tube sound, you can't go wrong with the jade. I think technically it is the better amp. But if you like SS either for sound or convenience, the ph100 is a great entry/budget amp that I think would be hard to be dissatisified with, especially with it known to synergize well with the AKG phones._

 

I also supply solid state amplifier with very special price if buy together with Jade (to save shipping cost). 

 Jade + GK1-J US$360 - GK1-J driver Grado SR325 very well. 

 Jade + GK1 US$400

 Jade + GK1-Delux - US$430


 Balance cable for HD600/650 - US$30 (1.8M) , 2.3M US$35


----------



## sfmatt

Joe,

 Can you tell us more about that solid state amplifier of yours. What are the specs? Is there a pic somewhere? What is the price for existing Jade owners? Can you swap opamps? Is it a USB DAC+amp or just an amp?

 Thanks!


----------



## sfmatt

Is that the ph100 you're talking about?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/sha...ad-amp-280277/


----------



## elwappo99

I had a question or two, which I can't seem to find using the search.

 1. How much does it cost to upgrade to a balanced out?
 2. How is the K702 cable balanced? Is it just balanced at the output, or is it a bare wire we would solder to the headphones?

 Thanks


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe,

 Can you tell us more about that solid state amplifier of yours. What are the specs? Is there a pic somewhere? What is the price for existing Jade owners? Can you swap opamps? Is it a USB DAC+amp or just an amp?

 Thanks!_

 



Audiotailor

 It ia Jfet + Mosfet Single end amp , topology is same as Jade but solis state only.

 Jade users - GK1-J US$50 + Shipping - 1Kg 
 - GK1-Delux US$100 + shipping (3.2Kg)


 We pay $10 shipping cost for all Jade users - balance shipping cost by buyers. You can check shipping cist at 
Hongkong Post - Postage Calculator


----------



## Jazz9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is that the ph100 you're talking about?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/sha...ad-amp-280277/_

 


 Yep that's it.


----------



## sfmatt

Jazz9: just one thing, contrarily to the other tube amps the Jade is never hot. The power tube is somwehat warm (but you can handle it easily, it's not hot) and the other tube is barely lukewarm at best like some of the amp parts.

 The ph100 looks interesting for the price but it has a warm signature and no swappable opamps.

 Joe can somewhat customize the Jade if you want to, I asked for a headphone jack in since I connect it to pro sound card. Somewhere in the thread there's a list of customizations.


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiotailor

 It ia Jfet + Mosfet Single end amp , topology is same as Jade but solis state only.

 Jade users - GK1-J US$50 + Shipping - 1Kg 
 - GK1-Delux US$100 + shipping (3.2Kg)


 We pay $10 shipping cost for all Jade users - balance shipping cost by buyers. You can check shipping cist at 
Hongkong Post - Postage Calculator_

 

Wow, that is a really good price Joe. Can you tailor this one also?
 Any chance we can have a USB dac on the GK1-J?


----------



## elwappo99

Nvm, found my answer in FS forum


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Audiotailor

 It ia Jfet + Mosfet Single end amp , topology is same as Jade but solis state only.

 Jade users - GK1-J US$50 + Shipping - 1Kg 
 - GK1-Delux US$100 + shipping (3.2Kg)


 We pay $10 shipping cost for all Jade users - balance shipping cost by buyers. You can check shipping cist at 
Hongkong Post - Postage Calculator_

 

Joe, do they drive the K701's (and in general, low impedance phones) better than the Jade does?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe, do they drive the K701's (and in general, low impedance phones) better than the Jade does?_

 

Jade already drive K701 well. GK1-J is more suitable for 32 ohm Cans. GK1-Delux has more power. GK1 is more dynamic when you matching with low impedance cans like Grado. It is more suitable for rock & roll , New age music. Jade is more warm.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elwappo99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a question or two, which I can't seem to find using the search.

 1. How much does it cost to upgrade to a balanced out?
 2. How is the K702 cable balanced? Is it just balanced at the output, or is it a bare wire we would solder to the headphones?

 Thanks_

 

Jade & GK1 alrady had balance output , No need to upgrade. Only need a special cable to matching cans.

 K702 - Need modify on headphone. (Soldering wire to headphone).


----------



## elwappo99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade & GK1 alrady had balance output , No need to upgrade. Only need a special cable to matching cans._

 


 Is this new? The older models all have the two 1/4" jacks, as with skylabs pictures.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elwappo99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this new? The older models all have the two 1/4" jacks, as with skylabs pictures._

 

The balanced cable is terminated with two 1/4" plugs


----------



## elwappo99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The balanced cable is terminated with two 1/4" plugs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I've never seen it before. I love love love it. Is this standard though? Or is an upgrade???


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elwappo99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've never seen it before. I love love love it. Is this standard though? Or is an upgrade???_

 

It's a standard feature. Here's a pic of the cable on Audiotailor's website


----------



## elwappo99

oh oh , sorry I was still on the jade, not the other one the thread jumped to


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elwappo99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this new? The older models all have the two 1/4" jacks, as with skylabs pictures._

 

It is standard function just look like Skylabs Pictures. 2 Output jack on GK1 , Jade is standard feature.


----------



## elwappo99

I've found the following list of upgrades. can someone fill the blanks in on the ones I didn't put down. I'm a little lost on them.


 -Extra Set of RCA inputs
 (Converts the 3.5mm input on the back into a second set of RCA inputs)

 -Neutrik combo jacks 
 (Adds balanced input)

 -Infinite coupling cap???
 -Alps 27 mm volume???
 -Composite teflon sockets???

 thanks, again

 ( I figure, if I'm going to look like an idiot, I may as well go all out, right?)


----------



## Aris488

Hello Joe,

 Can you tell us:

 the dimensions of the Jade,
 the price + shipping cost for France, and the delay
 the prices of the diferent upgrades, 

 Thanks.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aris488* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Joe,

 Can you tell us:

 the dimensions of the Jade,
 the price + shipping cost for France, and the delay
 the prices of the diferent upgrades, 

 Thanks._

 




 Upgrade Parts + Jade + Paypal 

 a. Alps 27mm US$15 + Infinite cap (US$40) + neutrik black Jack. - US$12 , Tube sockets US$10 

 b. Jade cost US$300 

 c Paypal charge US$11

 Upgrade need 3 more days to process. Lead time is 4 ~ 5 days + shipping 4 ~ 5 days to arrive your hand. Free shipping now.


----------



## elwappo99

Hey Joe

 I'm thinking about ordering a Jade in the next few days, and don't know how these upgrades change the amp. Can you help define them?

 Thanks

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Upgrade Parts + Jade + Paypal 

 a. Alps 27mm US$15 + Infinite cap (US$40) + neutrik black Jack. - US$12 , Tube sockets US$10 _


----------



## sfmatt

So I got the pseudo-balanced cable and a couple of tubes but it's too early to give impressions as there are so many combinations now.

 I have a question though: how long should I wait to remove a tube from the Jade once it's been turned off?
 Just asking because there was a thread recently were some people stated they waited 10 minutes to one hour to swap tubes. I generally wait 5 to 10 seconds, never had any issue but am I taking a risk for the tubes or the Jade by doing so?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got the pseudo-balanced cable and a couple of tubes but it's too early to give impressions as there are so many combinations now.

 I have a question though: how long should I wait to remove a tube from the Jade once it's been turned off?
 Just asking because there was a thread recently were some people stated they waited 10 minutes to one hour to swap tubes. I generally wait 5 to 10 seconds, never had any issue but am I taking a risk for the tubes or the Jade by doing so?_

 

After unplug your cans , you can swap tube any time if you not worry burn your finger. It is safe to swap tube just turn off power.

 Pseudo balance - It output impedance between cathode & Plate is not so far away. Cathode is little less than half of plate output only. It can ignore when it impedance already low especially for Headphones. It is work 99% same as standard balance output.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elwappo99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've found the following list of upgrades. can someone fill the blanks in on the ones I didn't put down. I'm a little lost on them.


 -Extra Set of RCA inputs
 (Converts the 3.5mm input on the back into a second set of RCA inputs)

 -Neutrik combo jacks 
 (Adds balanced input)

 -Infinite coupling cap???
 -Alps 27 mm volume???
 -Composite teflon sockets???

 thanks, again

 ( I figure, if I'm going to look like an idiot, I may as well go all out, right?)_

 

I can help you with some of those:

 -Neutrik combo jacks (Adds balanced input): 

 This I think may be a mistake, I think what's on offer is to replace the ordinary output jacks with Neutrik jacks (higher mechanical durability). The combo part means you can plug in both XLR and tele-plugs, but I don't think Joe are offering those, just regular tele-plugs (as seen om most of the pictures). 

 Someone (i forgot who, sorry!) did mod a JADE with combo jacks a bit earlier in the thread, but unless you need to connect XLR-jacks, this is not necessary. 

 -Infinite coupling cap???

 Improved sound, though you may be pressed to tell the difference from the standard component (already quite high quality). 

 -Alps 27 mm volume???

 Same as with the coupling cap, better sound. Alps are renowned for high quality volume POTs. I think generally, various POT's are considered weak links in the sound chain, as the sound signal must pass through them and it is difficult to provide continuous regulation of signal intensity without distorting it. Consider for example ARCAM's amplifiers which often have a "direct"-button, i.e. the sound signal bypasses the bass, treble and balance POT's, and where sound is audibly improved when you hit that button even for the non-hifi buff. This is the one upgrade I would not go without. 

 -Composite teflon sockets???

 Not sure about this one. Mechanical durability I think.


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After unplug your cans , you can swap tube any time if you not worry burn your finger. It is safe to swap tube just turn off power.

 Pseudo balance - It output impedance between cathode & Plate is not so far away. Cathode is little less than half of plate output only. It can ignore when it impedance already low especially for Headphones. It is work 99% same as standard balance output._

 

Just to make sure, you're telling us to:
 1) Turn off the Jade
 2) Unplug the cans
 3) Swap tubes straight away (don't we have to wait at least a few seconds until they stop glowing?)
 4) Plug cans back in
 5) Turn on Jade

 Is that right?


----------



## Skylab

Note that he did say that was only if you weren't worried about burning your fingers


----------



## Didege

Hello all,

 Second post on this forum, first on this treath; but I swear, i've read all of them...
 And I'm quite impressed ! Some of you must be saints (and coming from the country of father Damien I know what i'm talking about)... such a faith in a subject and dedication to other... Saints but also apostles; and you know what ? I'm convinced !! 
 So I think I will do my religion with a Jade in few days.
 I've a new Rega Appolo since septembre, makes great changes through my speakers : definition, space between instruments,... delightfull. I'm still listening my MS1 through the headphone ouptut of my Harmann Kardon Citation 25 pre-amp : not bad with calm and detailled music but noisy with ensemble or rock.
 So I began my search, my quest: Musical Fidelity(the small one) ?, Rega Ear ?, and why not a tube amp ? : a diy ? Millet ? but what about my two left hands and my total ignorance in electronics ?, a Little Dot ? II? III? ... and soon oh soon ... the light (did someone quote Yes ?) the Audiotailor Jade will be my Graal.
 I ask Father Christmas (no my wife does not wear the beard) and it's ok, there's still enough place under the tree.
 So I will very soon ask Joseph to make my wish come truth and invite you all to share a part of christmas pudding if the baby arrives in time in the house of nativity (crêche=crib ?)
 Permettez-moi enfin de saluer en français ceux qui partage avec moi cette langue maternelle ainsi que ceux qui l'apprécie.


----------



## perilymph

My new Jade arrived a few days ago, and it's a hummer. Bummer.

 Tried changing everything I could in the chain - headphones, source (CD players), interconnects, power cable, isolated ground receptacle - no luck. The problem is down to the amp. Wending my way through this thread, I see it's similar to what *jfourc* and *MLA* reported in posts #403 and #405 (and following). Characteristics of the hum are:
 - its main component is independent of volume knob setting (as *PaulyT* confirmed, post #463)
 - slightly louder in the right output jack than in the left
 - much louder in the high impedance setting than low 
 - slightly louder in the right channel than in the left (opposite of what jfourc and MLA had)
 - louder with high impedance phones (Senn HD650, same as MLA used) than low-impedance IEMs (FS Atrio M5 - see also MLA re: AKG 601's)
 - slightly louder with a second headphone plugged into other output jack 

 I don't have tubes here to change out the stock ones - still hunting - but others' experiences indicate it doesn't help.

 My unit is the basic model, so the upgrade Alps pot can't be the culprit.

 Lacking jfourc's or PaulyT's soldering skills (my last experience was an abortive attempt to build a Hafler preamp kit), I'm not inclined to open up the case and look for loose wires. 
 The packaging shows no indication of mishandling in transit. Unfortunately it seems that Audiotailor's quality control problems are recurring even months after the earlier reports.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perilymph* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My new Jade arrived a few days ago, and it's a hummer. Bummer.

 Tried changing everything I could in the chain - headphones, source (CD players), interconnects, power cable, isolated ground receptacle - no luck. The problem is down to the amp. Wending my way through this thread, I see it's similar to what *jfourc* and *MLA* reported in posts #403 and #405 (and following). Characteristics of the hum are:
 - its main component is independent of volume knob setting (as *PaulyT* confirmed, post #463)
 - slightly louder in the right output jack than in the left
 - much louder in the high impedance setting than low 
 - slightly louder in the right channel than in the left (opposite of what jfourc and MLA had)
 - louder with high impedance phones (Senn HD650, same as MLA used) than low-impedance IEMs (FS Atrio M5 - see also MLA re: AKG 601's)
 - slightly louder with a second headphone plugged into other output jack 

 I don't have tubes here to change out the stock ones - still hunting - but others' experiences indicate it doesn't help.

 My unit is the basic model, so the upgrade Alps pot can't be the culprit.

 Lacking jfourc's or PaulyT's soldering skills (my last experience was an abortive attempt to build a Hafler preamp kit), I'm not inclined to open up the case and look for loose wires. 
 The packaging shows no indication of mishandling in transit. Unfortunately it seems that Audiotailor's quality control problems are recurring even months after the earlier reports._

 

 May I ask you a question ? Why don't you send me email or PM me to solve problem. I had sell many units last months. I can not gurrantier 100% no problem but I promise 100% solve problem in all my effort.

 I had ckeck every units shipped last months. I don't find such problem. You can find a repair shop to repair it and charge on me.


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Note that he did say that was only if you weren't worried about burning your fingers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Even after hours of stomping trance or punk-rock the tubes are barely lukewarm. That's why I never waited too long to swap tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Makes it a breeze to compare tubes actually. I should write something about the cable and various tubes I got but I'm too smug listening to music atm...


----------



## sfmatt

Joe or whoever else knows, a very quick question for you: which type of screws are needed for the cage?

 Thanks!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe or whoever else knows, a very quick question for you: which type of screws are needed for the cage?

 Thanks!_

 

It is M3 screw.


----------



## Hz_joe

I had not recieved PM or email complain about Hum problem. I like to know which unit has problem and like to help you solve problem. Please contac to me about this mattter.Thank !


----------



## Hz_joe

Hum problem buyer just send me a email , May be he need 100% refund. I consider to put this unit on ebay & Start at US$100 only. It is in Newyork now. 
 It has problem on direct sell. We are hard to provide repair service & difficult to gurrantier 100% trouble free ! We will try my best to provide best service.
 We promise that :

 1. 100% Money back.
 2. Buyer can find a repair shop to repair it and charge on me.


----------



## perilymph

The problem, described above, seems similar to what PaulyT, googlephone and MLA successfully fixed: see posts #517 and #520-529. Lacking their skills, I could find a local electronics shop to do the repair, but I think the amp is better off in the hands of someone who can evaluate SQ. With the combination that produces only a slight hum (low-impedance IEMs in left output jack, low gain setting) it sounds pretty good to me, subject to the limitations of the stock tubes. I do not hear any distortion as jfourc described with his unit.

 If any head-fi member in the Albany NY or Boston area wants to take up Joe's offer, I might be able to deliver the amp (depending on timing).


----------



## Frank I

Just like Antiques sound lab products. Not worth the aggravation. MY ASL Blew up. Lau needs to rethink his designs/


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just like Antiques sound lab products. Not worth the aggravation. MY ASL Blew up. Lau needs to rethink his designs/_

 

Don't knock it unless you've heard it. It's a great amp, especially for the money. I've been using mine almost every day for nearing a year, no problems at all. Joe's done everything he can to help take care of any problems.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just like Antiques sound lab products. Not worth the aggravation. MY ASL Blew up. Lau needs to rethink his designs/_

 

 Yes ! Our products may be not perfect. We are try to improve it days by days. It become more and more reliable now. We use the best sockets of which design by us. good quality componets. I had test all Jade ship on last months. I don't know why it still had problem. I'm sure it is not a big problem. It may be problem on ground connecting only. I will study it more carefully to made it become perfect. We are try to compensate on problem cause by us.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't knock it unless you've heard it. It's a great amp, especially for the money. I've been using mine almost every day for nearing a year, no problems at all. Joe's done everything he can to help take care of any problems._

 

My Antique Sound Lab sounded good too. But it still blew up.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Antique Sound Lab sounded good too. But it still blew up._

 

 It is impossible to find a products no any problem espeically on tube amplifiers. Some problem is cause by machine it own. Some is cause by over main voltage, some problem is cause by misused like Plug a power tube with problem. Most of tube amplifiers will burn resistors , transformers or power section.Most of ASL tube amplifiers has upgraded to include power tube over current protection , Bias fail protection . Also we had best sockets in the world. It can improve our products quality to a high standard. This type of new sockets already use in Jade and most of our products. New type of tubes sockets was bo

 ASL already in market for 16 years and sold hundred thousand amplifiers in the world. Sure some of it has problem and need repair. All our transformers Warranty for 5 years. Most of problem can easy to repair except transformers.


----------



## Didege

Ouch, i was about to purchase the Jade and the problem with perylimph worries me.
 On the other hand i really appreciate the answers an commitment of joe. I want to trust him but i don't want to have a wrong amp.
 What's your experience, those who have received an humming one ? Is it now resolved ? How ? Satisfactory for you ? 
 Please help me having the choice ...


----------



## pekingduck

Mine had the hum problem. Sent back to Joe and received it 10 days later. No more hum! Yay!

 He also paid shipping both ways. Communication was super fast. I would say great customer service from Audiotailor


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ouch, i was about to purchase the Jade and the problem with perylimph worries me.
 On the other hand i really appreciate the answers an commitment of joe. I want to trust him but i don't want to have a wrong amp.
 What's your experience, those who have received an humming one ? Is it now resolved ? How ? Satisfactory for you ? 
 Please help me having the choice ..._

 

I got a hummer (a grounding problem when adding upgrades, but that has been resolved some time ago). I told Joe so, and he sent me a new one, airmail, no extra cost, no problems. The new one was dead silent and I have been using it daily since (have it at the office).


----------



## Hz_joe

Thank for support of Jade users & all Head-fi's. I wonder why the newest one still had problem ! I had test every units before ship now. I'm sure even has problem could not be same ! I had received a message from a buyer who complain has hum noise here . I like to help him to solve problem with all my effort. I suggest him to find a repair shop & I pay bill or 100% refund but I received and abnormal reply :


OK- wasn't planning to.
 will wait to see what response you get on the head-fi forum


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank for support of Jade users & all Head-fi's. I wonder why the newest one still had problem ! I had test every units before ship now. I'm sure even has problem could not be same ! I had received a message from a buyer who complain has hum noise here . I like to help him to solve problem with all my effort. I suggest him to find a repair shop & I pay bill or 100% refund but I received and abnormal reply :


OK- wasn't planning to.
 will wait to see what response you get on the head-fi forum_

 

Joe your missing the point. I dont think anyone would want to buy an amp and then take it for repairs. You make it sound like its a common proble, The Little Dot MK11 I own has been flawless. My CJ Premier 11a tube amp performed flawlessly for 12 years as did my Cat SL1 MK11 preamp. Evidently there is a design flaw that you need to correct. Reliability is most important to me in Electronics. I wouldnt want to look for tube repairmen and I dont think you should be telling people that. Just fix the problem


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe your missing the point. I dont think anyone would want to buy an amp and then take it for repairs. You make it sound like its a common proble, The Little Dot MK11 I own has been flawless. My CJ Premier 11a tube amp performed flawlessly for 12 years as did my Cat SL1 MK11 preamp. Evidently there is a design flaw that you need to correct. Reliability is most important to me in Electronics. I wouldnt want to look for tube repairmen and I dont think you should be telling people that. Just fix the problem_

 

 I think no one can gurrantier 100% no problem even Sony ,BMW .......... . Most electronics prodcuts is 1.5% acceptable quality level. Do you know what is mean by 1.5 AQL ? It mean that 1% Major problem is acceptable.
 I don't think it has design flaw! Sure ! We want control our products to less problem , so I had 100% test it before ship. I wonder why buyer don't request us to take action to compensate but only want to knock me dowm ?


----------



## Didege

I did it !
 I've just ordered mine ... and put great expectations in (on?) it ...


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Joe your missing the point. I dont think anyone would want to buy an amp and then take it for repairs. You make it sound like its a common proble, The Little Dot MK11 I own has been flawless. My CJ Premier 11a tube amp performed flawlessly for 12 years as did my Cat SL1 MK11 preamp. Evidently there is a design flaw that you need to correct. Reliability is most important to me in Electronics. I wouldnt want to look for tube repairmen and I dont think you should be telling people that. Just fix the problem_

 

I think YOU're missing the point. If Joe's amps had half the problems you assume, he'd already be bankrupt with the support he provides (ie shipping BOTH ways, free replacement, and even offering to pay if you want to get it repaired where ever you'd like). I 'm sure Joe doesn't want ANY problems with his amps since it obviously affects his profit and loss but when they occur he solidly stands behind them and does whatever it takes to satisfy his customers. His commitment in this regard is excellent.

 Just curious...How many units do u think he's sold and how many have had a problem. Seems to me that u have a hidden agenda and are more interested in smearing Joe than fixing the problem.

 Kudos to Joe and others like him who stand 100% behind their product. They are becoming exceedingly rare these days.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kudos to Joe and others like him who stand 100% behind their product. They are becoming exceedingly rare these days._

 

+1


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think YOU're missing the point. If Joe's amps had half the problems you assume, he'd already be bankrupt with the support he provides (ie shipping BOTH ways, free replacement, and even offering to pay if you want to get it repaired where ever you'd like). I 'm sure Joe doesn't want ANY problems with his amps since it obviously affects his profit and loss but when they occur he solidly stands behind them and does whatever it takes to satisfy his customers. His commitment in this regard is excellent.

 Just curious...How many units do u think he's sold and how many have had a problem. Seems to me that u have a hidden agenda and are more interested in smearing Joe than fixing the problem.

 Kudos to Joe and others like him who stand 100% behind their product. They are becoming exceedingly rare these days._

 

Why would I have any agenda. I dont own those products and just voiced my opinion. He hasn't stated what was repaired or what is causing the hums. Evidently it can be corrected if it sent back to China. There is no US Distribution. I remember the Philips SACD product which I ended up chucking because it couldn't be repaired because parts were unavailable. If there is an issue of quality control in the factory it should be addressed.


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why would I have any agenda. I dont own those products and just voiced my opinion. He hasn't stated what was repaired or what is causing the hums. Evidently it can be corrected if it sent back to China. There is no US Distribution. I remember the Philips SACD product which I ended up chucking because it couldn't be repaired because parts were unavailable. If there is an issue of quality control in the factory it should be addressed._

 

So by your own admission you don't own this product and don't know what caused the few problems reported and are unsure IF there is a quality control issue but feel your opinion and comments are valuable to this thread.


----------



## Frank I

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Trapper32* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So by your own admission you don't own this product and don't know what caused the few problems reported and are unsure IF there is a quality control issue but feel your opinion and comments are valuable to this thread._

 

I can see from your posting history you are an individual who likes to fight with other members. Guess what you dont own it either so get a life


----------



## Trapper32

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can see from your posting history you are an individual who likes to fight with other members. Guess what you dont own it either so get a life_

 

Never claimed "to own it" but I also don't post in a thread where I have absolutely no information on which to make an educated opinion or comment that would be of any use to the members reading it.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just like Antiques sound lab products. Not worth the aggravation. MY ASL Blew up. Lau needs to rethink his designs/_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Frank I* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My Antique Sound Lab sounded good too. But it still blew up._

 

Based on these posts, it seems to me you do have an agenda. Now granted, if I owned an amp that blew up, I'd be mad too. But you're no neutral observer, to be sure.


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perilymph* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The problem, described above, seems similar to what PaulyT, googlephone and MLA successfully fixed: see posts #517 and #520-529. Lacking their skills, I could find a local electronics shop to do the repair, but I think the amp is better off in the hands of someone who can evaluate SQ. With the combination that produces only a slight hum (low-impedance IEMs in left output jack, low gain setting) it sounds pretty good to me, subject to the limitations of the stock tubes. I do not hear any distortion as jfourc described with his unit.

 If any head-fi member in the Albany NY or Boston area wants to take up Joe's offer, I might be able to deliver the amp (depending on timing)._

 

Given that it's the basic model which really does not need the fix in posts #517 and #520-529, then either some ground wire has come loose during shipping, or I would actually suspect the stock tubes. If you can find another set of tubes to test with before shipping it elsewhere (or leave the stock tubes in and the amp turned on for a few hours) it may be worth your while.


----------



## perilymph

Could be I misread the earlier posts about what the fix was for. Different cause, similar symptom?

 Joe said the recent units have been 100% tested, so seems likely that something went awry during shipping. I've been running burn-in on the amp, ~40 hours now, and the hum has diminished considerably and shifted around some. (Now quieter in right jack than left; not far above noise floor with low impedance setting.) That sounds more tube-related than a loose ground wire. Maybe Audiotailor QC performed with different tubes? or these tubes got rattled during shipment and then partially recovered?

 Still don't have aftermarket tubes (lots of info on this and other thread >> lengthy deliberation). I'll pick up a couple and try out MLA's suggestion. Note however that others did not find tuberolling to be the cure.


----------



## perilymph

also, quick update on my dealings with Audiotailor. Joe responded promptly and offered me several choices of refund, repair, or replacement. Their customer service has been exemplary so far in my case. I concur with Trapper32'd kudos. It's also clear that forums like this are invaluable in sorting out the best vendors for service as well as product. Thanks in the spirit of more wheat, less chaff!


----------



## PaulyT

If it's changed like that over time, it's very unlikely to be the same problem as a few of us fixed before - which involved altering the circuit board, not an issue that would change during burn-in. I agree, what you describe sounds more like a tube issue. The ones they ship with the Jade are of questionable quality, so yes definitely try some others even if they aren't expensive NOS to see if makes a difference.


----------



## ecclesand

Just ordered a stock Jade after reading thru this entire thread. Hopefully, I don't get a hummer version. For those that have cracked this puppy open, can you tell me what kind/size of caps are in there? I know for an extra $40 I could have upgraded the caps, but I like doing that stuff myself and I'm building quite a selection of quality coupling and bypass caps that I roll in my DACs.

 What is the typical shipping time....from order to delivery?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered a stock Jade after reading thru this entire thread. Hopefully, I don't get a hummer version. For those that have cracked this puppy open, can you tell me what kind/size of caps are in there? I know for an extra $40 I could have upgraded the caps, but I like doing that stuff myself and I'm building quite a selection of quality coupling and bypass caps that I roll in my DACs.

 What is the typical shipping time....from order to delivery?_

 

Standard Jade 3 working days - Ship by EMS from Hong Kong , another 3 ~ 4 days arrive your hand.

 Upgrade Jade delivery around 1 weeks after condfirm order.


----------



## BigTony

I'd also like to add that my dealing with Joe have always been very positive - and my nice new 3.5 m balanced cable arrived in the post today.

 Cheers Joe.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd also like to add that my dealing with Joe have always been very positive - and my nice new 3.5 m balanced cable arrived in the post today.

 Cheers Joe._

 

Good to hear and congrats on getting your cable. I have an HD580 and considered getting the cable but decided not to. If the Jade doesn't outperform my Millett MiniMax with my 600ohm Beyers, then I don't plan on keeping it. If it does well...which I'm hoping it does, then I'll probably get the cable as everything I've read about it is positive.


----------



## PaulyT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered a stock Jade after reading thru this entire thread. Hopefully, I don't get a hummer version. For those that have cracked this puppy open, can you tell me what kind/size of caps are in there? I know for an extra $40 I could have upgraded the caps, but I like doing that stuff myself and I'm building quite a selection of quality coupling and bypass caps that I roll in my DACs._

 

I don't know the capacitance value, but the Jade comes with a schematic that should say, at least mine did; if not I'm sure Joe would tell you. There's a lot of room inside the enclosure and on and around the PCB, so you'd have no problems installing just about any cap in there, I think. The standard ones are auricaps, I think - I don't remember off the top of my head from when I opened mine up a couple months back. The infinitys on the one I fixed were about 3cm long, maybe 1cm diameter.


----------



## Skylab

By the way, I have been very remiss, but the Audiotailor HPC-1, which is a transformer-based impedance-matching box, works terrifically - it allowed me to use low impedance headphones with OTL tube amps that had a high output impedance with great results. With the Darkvoice 337 and the Ming Da MC84C-07, both of which would hum when used with low impedance headphones, the introduction of the HPC-1 completely eliminated that issue, without altering the sound in any way I could detect. This could be a VERY handy little device! I definitely recommend it.

 Here are some pics - the case is approx 3"x2"x2":


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know the capacitance value, but the Jade comes with a schematic that should say, at least mine did; if not I'm sure Joe would tell you. There's a lot of room inside the enclosure and on and around the PCB, so you'd have no problems installing just about any cap in there, I think. The standard ones are auricaps, I think - I don't remember off the top of my head from when I opened mine up a couple months back. The infinitys on the one I fixed were about 3cm long, maybe 1cm diameter._

 

Thanks for the info. I'm a big fan of the midrange bloom of the Auricaps. If the stock are Auricaps, then I'll be very happy!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, I have been very remiss, but the Audiotailor HPC-1, which is a transformer-based impedance-matching box, works terrifically - it allowed me to use low impedance headphones with OTL tube amps that had a high output impedance with great results. With the Darkvoice 337 and the Ming Da MC84C-07, both of which would hum when used with low impedance headphones, the introduction of the HPC-1 completely eliminated that issue, without altering the sound in any way I could detect. This could be a VERY handy little device! I definitely recommend it.

 Here are some pics - the case is approx 3"x2"x2":








_

 

This transformer Up/down adapter is made by permalloy core. Very good frequency response. We will be retail at US$80/Pcs but will special offer to Jade users.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This transformer Up/down adapter is made by permalloy core. Very good frequency response. We will be retail at US$80/Pcs but will special offer to Jade users._

 

Wow Joe, that's a great price.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow Joe, that's a great price._

 

I'm wondering if this little box will bring out the shine with my HF-2's and the Jade??
 I really like the HF-2's, but i don't really use them enough atm ....


----------



## Skylab

It might well.


----------



## Hz_joe

Hum problem Jade Start to Bid at Ebay now. 

Audiotailor Jade , Tube Headphone amp - eBay (item 250552278317 end time Jan-01-10 00:36:07 PST)


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Standard Jade 3 working days - Ship by EMS from Hong Kong , another 3 ~ 4 days arrive your hand.

 Upgrade Jade delivery around 1 weeks after condfirm order._

 

Hmmm...I wonder if I should be worried. It's been a full 7 days since my stock Jade order and no shipping information. And Joseph isn't returning my emails either.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm...I wonder if I should be worried. It's been a full 7 days since my stock Jade order and no shipping information. And Joseph isn't returning my emails either.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How how, same for me ! I ordered mine on 13th, wrote a mail two days ago, and no answer ...


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmmm...I wonder if I should be worried. It's been a full 7 days since my stock Jade order and no shipping information. And Joseph isn't returning my emails either.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How how, same for me ! I ordered mine on 13th, wrote a mail two days ago, and no answer ..._

 

I'm sure he took all your money and ran! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 It is the holiday season - it's not like the shipping companies have an extra load or anything.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure he took all your money and ran! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 It is the holiday season - it's not like the shipping companies have an extra load or anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I could see your point had I received a notice that the amp had shipped. Based on my communication with Joseph so far, my amp has not yet shipped so the problem is with him, not the shipping companies.


----------



## userlander

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could see your point had I received a notice that the amp had shipped. Based on my communication with Joseph so far, my amp has not yet shipped so the problem is with him, not the shipping companies._

 

"Based on your communication" - you mean he told you it hasn't shipped yet? Or you just haven't heard anything?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *userlander* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"Based on your communication" - you mean he told you it hasn't shipped yet? Or you just haven't heard anything?_

 

He said around 4 days ago that it would ship within 2 days. Still no word and he hasn't responded to my emails sent over 24 hours ago. Perhaps it has shipped and he just doesn't communicate that it shipped? In any case, I'm concerned especially since I'm not the only one.

 Sent you a pm regarding your Jade.

*EDIT: Just received an email from Joseph. Apparently they were waiting on parts and it will most likely ship next week. Didege...hopefully this is the reason for your delay as well.*


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He said around 4 days ago that it would ship within 2 days. Still no word and he hasn't responded to my emails sent over 24 hours ago. Perhaps it has shipped and he just doesn't communicate that it shipped? In any case, I'm concerned especially since I'm not the only one.

 Sent you a pm regarding your Jade.

*EDIT: Just received an email from Joseph. Apparently they were waiting on parts and it will most likely ship next week. Didege...hopefully this is the reason for your delay as well.*_

 

I'm sorry ! I'm out of office for a days. It is shortage in some parts. It is under burn in. Will send it out tomorrow from Factory to HongKong & send it to you by EMS as soon as possible.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How how, same for me ! I ordered mine on 13th, wrote a mail two days ago, and no answer ..._

 

It will send out from factory tomorrow night. All order before last saturdays will send tomorrow from factory.


----------



## ecclesand

Thanks for the updates Joe!

 And my apologies for assuming the worst.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will send out from factory tomorrow night. All order before last saturdays will send tomorrow from factory._

 

Ok, thank you Joe. Meanwhile some good bottles of single malt I received for Christmas will help me waiting for my Jade


----------



## pytter

I saw from previous posts that some have ordered upgrades from Joe. Can those that have purchased an upgrade version let me know their reasoning and their experience with th upgraded version?


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pytter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I saw from previous posts that some have ordered upgrades from Joe. Can those that have purchased an upgrade version let me know their reasoning and their experience with th upgraded version?_

 

Well, some of the upgrades are for set-up convenience and mechanical durability. For example, I upgraded to double RCA-in jacks because I would not have used the 3.5 mm tele which one of the standard inputs (set-up convenience) and to neutrik jacks on the front (for durability). 

 Some of the upgrades are meant to make a sonical difference, such as the alps POT and the infinity caps. Since Joe uses pretty high quality components in the standard version however, you probably would have to put two JADE's next to each other and do immediate A/B switch comparison to really hear the difference, i.e. what I think can be described as the extra resolution which the higher quality parts provide. If you're not into the finer levels of auditioning amps for transparency and detail to begin with, you may be hard pressed to tell the difference between the regular and upgrade POT for example.

 That said, I ordered the most of the upgrades because sometimes it just feels good to know you have the upgraded model!


----------



## pytter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, some of the upgrades are for set-up convenience and mechanical durability. For example, I upgraded to double RCA-in jacks because I would not have used the 3.5 mm tele which one of the standard inputs (set-up convenience) and to neutrik jacks on the front (for durability). 

 Some of the upgrades are meant to make a sonical difference, such as the alps POT and the infinity caps. Since Joe uses pretty high quality components in the standard version however, you probably would have to put two JADE's next to each other and do immediate A/B switch comparison to really hear the difference, i.e. what I think can be described as the extra resolution which the higher quality parts provide. If you're not into the finer levels of auditioning amps for transparency and detail to begin with, you may be hard pressed to tell the difference between the regular and upgrade POT for example.

 That said, I ordered the most of the upgrades because sometimes it just feels good to know you have the upgraded model!_

 

Thanks for that MLA - I may well follow your example!


----------



## pytter

BTW - has anyone heard from Joe the last few days? I have sent him messages and e-mails since end of last week and haven't heard anything back from him. I had hoped to make use of the free shipping that he is offering till the end of the year (ie tomorrow!) as per post 530 in this thread......


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pytter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW - has anyone heard from Joe the last few days? I have sent him messages and e-mails since end of last week and haven't heard anything back from him. I had hoped to make use of the free shipping that he is offering till the end of the year (ie tomorrow!) as per post 530 in this thread......_

 

I think the Hong Kong staff currently is on holidays, but I think he will get you free shipping if you've tried to place your order now.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MLA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the Hong Kong staff currently is on holidays, but I think he will get you free shipping if you've tried to place your order now._

 

May be problem on email ! Sometime blocked ! OK! Will extend free EMS shipping for one more week. After one week will need pay 1/4 shipping cost if order within end of feb., 1/2 before end of April. Here after will free ship by sea parcel. It can upgrade to EMS by pay difference between sea and EMS.


----------



## ecclesand

Just got my Jade this morning and have been listening all day with a Chatham 6AS7G and GE 5751 5 Star. This little wonder bests my Millett MiniMax with the 600ohm DT990 and looks better doing it too. Thanks Joe...very impressive!!


----------



## Mampus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Jade this morning and have been listening all day with a Chatham 6AS7G and GE 5751 5 Star. This little wonder bests my Millett MiniMax with the 600ohm DT990 and looks better doing it too. Thanks Joe...very impressive!!_

 

I wonder how my DT880/600 sound with a Jade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But, i have one question: FWIH, the Jade users can make 'balanced' setup with plugging the 2 output simultaneously. How to do that? Until now, i can't find a 'thing' with 2 male jack 6.3mm to 1 female jack 6.3.mm


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mampus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how my DT880/600 sound with a Jade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, i have one question: FWIH, the Jade users can make 'balanced' setup with plugging the 2 output simultaneously. How to do that? Until now, i can't find a 'thing' with 2 male jack 6.3mm to 1 female jack 6.3.mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For HD580/600/650, you can buy a replacement cable from Joe. 
 For others, you have to rewire yourself


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mampus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder how my DT880/600 sound with a Jade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, i have one question: FWIH, the Jade users can make 'balanced' setup with plugging the 2 output simultaneously. How to do that? Until now, i can't find a 'thing' with 2 male jack 6.3mm to 1 female jack 6.3.mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Each Jack has Left + , Right + & ground

 Jack A : Connect Headphone Right + to Jack A Right + , Connect headphone left+ to Jack A left + , ignore ground.
 Jack B : Connect Right - to Jack B Right+ , Connect Left headphone left- to Jack B left + . Ignore ground. 

 Remark : Headphone left/Right - is connect to ground in normal. You should seperate it and not connect to ground but connect to Jack B left+ & right+.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my Jade this morning and have been listening all day with a Chatham 6AS7G and GE 5751 5 Star. This little wonder bests my Millett MiniMax with the 600ohm DT990 and looks better doing it too. Thanks Joe...very impressive!!_

 

Hey, congrats !! So no matter to worry at the end.
 Still waiting for mine but our customs in Belgium are known to be a pity


----------



## Mampus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Each Jack has Left + , Right + & ground

 Jack A : Connect Headphone Right + to Jack A Right + , Connect headphone left+ to Jack A left + , ignore ground.
 Jack B : Connect Right - to Jack B Right+ , Connect Left headphone left- to Jack B left + . Ignore ground. 

 Remark : Headphone left/Right - is connect to ground in normal. You should seperate it and not connect to ground but connect to Jack B left+ & right+._

 

Thanks a lot, Joe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't have any word to say except thank you


----------



## Didege

I got mine since yesterday. After only 2 ours listening with stock tubes it's already far better than my Citation 25 output ! No hum at all with my MS-1.
 As the signal strenghts of both ouputs are quite different, i'm still wondering wich one sounds more tubey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To be continued...
 No problem with customs, no taxation ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank you Joe


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine since yesterday. After only 2 ours listening with stock tubes it's already far better than my Citation 25 output ! No hum at all with my MS-1.
 As the signal strenghts of both ouputs are quite different, i'm still wondering wich one sounds more tubey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To be continued...
 No problem with customs, no taxation ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank you Joe_

 

The right one is more tubey while the left is SS-like


----------



## elwappo99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The right one is more tubey while the left is SS-like_

 

Yeah, I had to put some classical music on to figure this out. There's not too much of a difference, I feel


----------



## pekingduck

Yeah the difference is not night and day but it's there


----------



## Hz_joe

Jade-A3 will be release soon. It is use 12AX7 x 2 as driver tube , 2A3 x 2 as output tube. We had test prototype and has a god result. 2A3 can replace by most of 2A3 , 300B & 45. It will have a switch to select filament voltage.


----------



## PaulyT

Aww man.... and I just spent a ton of $$ (a ton for me anyway) on an EF5/HE5 combo! (which just showed up at my house today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

 In fact that's what I was going to post about, that it seems my Jade has a bit of a hard time driving the HE5 - which have definitely been described as current-hungry. I have to turn up the volume quite a bit more than with my other headphones, as their efficiency is lower even though the impedance isn't that far different from my Denons. And there's some distortion when things get loud and low (e.g. large orchestral works). Guess I could also try 5998+12AX7 instead of what I have now - 6AS7G+5751 - to see if that gives it a bit more oomph.

 I've ordered Joe's high/low impedance transformer, hasn't shown up yet... will be interesting to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade-A3 will be release soon. It is use 12AX7 x 2 as driver tube , 2A3 x 2 as output tube. We had test prototype and has a god result. 2A3 can replace by most of 2A3 , 300B & 45. It will have a switch to select filament voltage._

 

Awesome! Can the A3 work as a preamp?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got mine since yesterday. After only 2 ours listening with stock tubes it's already far better than my Citation 25 output ! No hum at all with my MS-1.
 As the signal strenghts of both ouputs are quite different, i'm still wondering wich one sounds more tubey 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 To be continued...
 No problem with customs, no taxation ....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thank you Joe_

 

Glad you got it!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome! Can the A3 work as a preamp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It will have 2 version. 1 is full headphone amplifier. 1 is with pre-amp out & 3 Input.


----------



## oldwine

what's the price tag?? any upgrade options like Jade??

 or even...... trade-in program??


----------



## joonas

I received my Jade today with balanced cable for HD 600/650.

 I can hear the difference with stock cable using either left or right output. Can someone confirm to me which output (SS/tube) I get from using the balanced cable with both outputs?


----------



## ecclesand

Has anyone tried a 5965 tube in the Jade? It has a higher heater current draw than the 12AX7 or 12AT7. I wonder if the Jade's trafo can handle the extra juice. I pm'd Joseph to see what he thinks. I have read that the 5965 has better sonics than the 12AX7 and 12AT7.


----------



## Hygienist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jade-A3 will be release soon. It is use 12AX7 x 2 as driver tube , 2A3 x 2 as output tube. We had test prototype and has a god result. 2A3 can replace by most of 2A3 , 300B & 45. It will have a switch to select filament voltage._

 

Is the Jade A3 going to be a higher end version of the current Jade?


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joonas* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my Jade today with balanced cable for HD 600/650.

 I can hear the difference with stock cable using either left or right output. Can someone confirm to me which output (SS/tube) I get from using the balanced cable with both outputs?_

 

I think it's the tube output.


----------



## pekingduck

I've been listening to Jade + JVC DX1000 for the past 5 days and I am thoroughly impressed! With the tube output the imaging, soundstage and (deep) bass are nothing short of stunning.

 The SS output sounds a little bit too polite.

 Highly recommended! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (both the phones and the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hygienist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Jade A3 going to be a higher end version of the current Jade?_

 


 Jade-A3 use same topology as Jade but use difference output tubes only. It is not upgrade but use difference tube to have difference sound signature only. Jade - 6AS7/6080 low impedance drive capacity is better than Jade-A3. Jade-A3 have magic of direct heat tube.


----------



## ecclesand

I'm sure other folks have probably already done this, but today I replaced the stock film caps in my Jade with some Multicap RTX (polystyrene film/tin foil) and yowza! After about 6 hours of burn in I am hearing improved detail and a more 3D soundstage. Does anyone else have any impressions with different caps in the Jade?

 Hmmm....I wonder if replacing the electrolytic caps would yield any improvements?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure other folks have probably already done this, but today I replaced the stock film caps in my Jade with some Multicap RTX (polystyrene film/tin foil) and yowza! After about 6 hours of burn in I am hearing improved detail and a more 3D soundstage. Does anyone else have any impressions with different caps in the Jade?

 Hmmm....I wonder if replacing the electrolytic caps would yield any improvements?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sure ! Replace better electrolytic caps can improve to much better. Jade still can dig deeper to have better sound. You can parallel a small value film cap with e-cap to improve sound quality.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure other folks have probably already done this, but today I replaced the stock film caps in my Jade with some Multicap RTX (polystyrene film/tin foil) and yowza! After about 6 hours of burn in I am hearing improved detail and a more 3D soundstage. Does anyone else have any impressions with different caps in the Jade?

 Hmmm....I wonder if replacing the electrolytic caps would yield any improvements?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Any tips for a noob interested in doing this?


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been listening to Jade + JVC DX1000 for the past 5 days and I am thoroughly impressed! With the tube output the imaging, soundstage and (deep) bass are nothing short of stunning.

 The SS output sounds a little bit too polite.

 Highly recommended! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (both the phones and the amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

Thanks a lot for the early impressions, please keep us updated!
 My interest for the DX1000 has cooled off a bit but only because I blissfully enjoy my HD650 with the Jade (currently settled on pseudo-balanced with Chatham and Siemens ECC801S). DX1000 is likely my next purchase but there's no urgency anymore


----------



## pekingduck

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sfmatt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot for the early impressions, please keep us updated!
 My interest for the DX1000 has cooled off a bit but only *because I blissfully enjoy my HD650 with the Jade* (currently settled on pseudo-balanced with Chatham and Siemens ECC801S). DX1000 is likely my next purchase but there's no urgency anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

It won't be long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously I also enjoy my pseudo-balanced HD600 a lot with the RCA 6AS7G and Sylvania 5751.


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *elwappo99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any tips for a noob interested in doing this?_

 

I didn't take pics when I did it, but simply replace the existing .1uF/400v caps with different ones with the same values. To get at the pcb, unscrew the 4 silver screws on the bottom of the amp. Remove the plate and you will see the pcb and the 2 film caps (white and laying on their side). To get at the underside of the pcb, I removed the 4 gold hex screws holding the faceplate. I then removed the 5 black screws from the top of the amp that fasten the pcb to the standoffs. Simply locate the solder points for the 2 caps and desolder. Solder in the new caps and reassemble.


----------



## sfmatt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pekingduck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It won't be long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I went to the last Bay Area meet which got me cured from upgradeitis


----------



## Didege

A single thing disturbs me in my Jade: the power of the LED. It is almost blinding !
 I think that the best way to limit it is to place a resistance (resistor) upstream.
 Have you an idea of its ideal value? 
 By making this, is there a risk to damage the sound ?


----------



## ecclesand

Per the schematic there is already a resistor between the power supply and the LED. It is R31 with a value of 1KOhm 1/2W. I would send an email to Joe to determine what size resistor would work. 

 Was looking at some pics I took of the internals recently and noticed a resistor that looks burned. This is a 100 Ohm 2 Watt resistor that drops the voltage 10V (R34 on schematic). I did measure a 9.81V drop across the resistor so that's OK. I then checked to make sure it was 100 Ohms and that is OK. I then calculated the Power Dissipation and it is just under 1 Watt. So, if the installed resistor is rated at 2 W per the schematic, then it should be OK. I emailed Joe for his opinion but haven't heard anything back. I also ordered some replacement 100 Ohm resistors rated at 3W just to be safe. I may have to shut this puppy down until I can replace it.


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Per the schematic there is already a resistor between the power supply and the LED. It is R31 with a value of 1KOhm 1/2W. I would send an email to Joe to determine what size resistor would work. 

 Was looking at some pics I took of the internals recently and noticed a resistor that looks burned. This is a 100 Ohm 2 Watt resistor that drops the voltage 10V (R34 on schematic). I did measure a 9.81V drop across the resistor so that's OK. I then checked to make sure it was 100 Ohms and that is OK. I then calculated the Power Dissipation and it is just under 1 Watt. So, if the installed resistor is rated at 2 W per the schematic, then it should be OK. I emailed Joe for his opinion but haven't heard anything back. I also ordered some replacement 100 Ohm resistors rated at 3W just to be safe. I may have to shut this puppy down until I can replace it.




_

 


 It already 100 Ohm 3W. It is a metal film resistor. This type of costing were easily to change color but I think it still work fine. You may be consider to replace it with a metal oxide type. I also will consider to change to higher power metal oxide.


----------



## ecclesand

Thanks for replying Joe. The schematic shows the resistor rated at 2W which should be fine, however, I'm not comfortable running the Jade with the resistor in this condition so I've shut mine down until the replacement resistors arrive.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't take pics when I did it, but simply replace the existing .1uF/400v caps with different ones with the same values. To get at the pcb, unscrew the 4 silver screws on the bottom of the amp. Remove the plate and you will see the pcb and the 2 film caps (white and laying on their side). To get at the underside of the pcb, I removed the 4 gold hex screws holding the faceplate. I then removed the 5 black screws from the top of the amp that fasten the pcb to the standoffs. Simply locate the solder points for the 2 caps and desolder. Solder in the new caps and reassemble._

 

Very interresting ! But why have you changed only those two? Are they particularly sensible for the sound quality ? Are they the only ones to change? A reseler told me about Jensen caps; do you have experience with them?


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interresting ! But why have you changed only those two? Are they particularly sensible for the sound quality ? Are they the only ones to change? A reseler told me about Jensen caps; do you have experience with them?_

 

Funny you ask....just yesterday I replaced that bad resistor and all the electrolytic caps with some nice Panasonics. So, there is no longer a stock cap in the entire amp. I haven't tried the Jensen caps. I have read good things and bad things about them and they are pricey. The Multicap RTX got good reviews from just about every source I found and they're cheap...like me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ecp.cc
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/or...thread-284863/
The Great Capacitor Shoot-Out


----------



## Hz_joe

I had del some unread message today ! Please send it to me if not seen my reply!


----------



## donunus

Is the a3 available now? Any pics? wow I love 2a3 tubes!!!


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the a3 available now? Any pics? wow I love 2a3 tubes!!!_

 

Prototype already tested with good result. We are redesign PCB to made it perfect. It will release after Chinese new year.


----------



## donunus

Are you still planning on el34s after the 2a3 version? Another question... What was the end result of the 2a3 version when using low impedance cans? Is the old Jade still better?


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *donunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you still planning on el34s after the 2a3 version? Another question... What was the end result of the 2a3 version when using low impedance cans? Is the old Jade still better?_

 

Yes ! 6080/6AS7 is better performance in low impedance Cans. EL34 version is no any technical problem and seem to be good when connect in triode mode. It output impedance is close to 2A3/300B. Jade-A3 will wotk on both 2A3/300B tubes.


----------



## Didege

There we are : first tube rolling this week-end.
 For the 6ASG i couldn't do anything else than buying a Chatham (otherwise Pauly T would have crucify me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




; thank to him : he is very convincing) and i choose an Amperex Buggle boy for the 12ax7.
 My few first comments :
 - the chinese tubes were not SO bad
 - the first minutes of listening were not from black to white but the difference in quality came gently in my ears
 - this is only with those "new" tubes that the difference between the two ouputs became obvious : the "tubey" one in now smoother, quieter than before, and i now also like the "ss" output : less "rough" than before
 - but the main point is the improvement in the sound stage, i have now a full landscape of sounds; this clarinet is in front, the trumpet backwards, the guitar bottom left and the triangle somwhere on the right upstairs ... a real 3D scene, very nice. The stock tubes were really lacking this.
 - A kind of a deception : the sounds i dislike before (the guitars in the first piece of IQ's "Frequency") are not better now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




; i would say even worth if possible !?

 A question about the Buggle boy : it's glowing really bright for less than a second when i turn the amp on and than reduce to "normal" (witch is not much), is that ok or shows a problem ?


----------



## oldwine

After nearly a year of uses, my Jade got a problem recently.

 The SS-like (ie. the left side) phone jacks got noise problem, it comes out noise when i rotate the plug of headphone. It seems being the contact problem. Can anyone give the clue to solve it??

 As it is heavy, i dun want to send it to Joe, unless it is necessary.


----------



## PaulyT

Yeah, sounds like the jack is maybe a little loose or dirty and is not making good contact with the plug. You could try cleaning the plug and the jack with a little rubbing alcohol on a cotton ball or q-tip for the inside of the jack. Other than that, might not be much you can do without replacing the jack - which is not terribly hard to do, but would require a little soldering.

 Edit: if you can't do it yourself, you could maybe take it to some local electronics place, it should be an easy repair. Possibly faster that way than sending back to Joe...


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question about the Buggle boy : it's glowing really bright for less than a second when i turn the amp on and than reduce to "normal" (witch is not much), is that ok or shows a problem ?_

 

Mine does the same for months now, so I assume its normal.
 Must admit, the first time I thought it was going to pop


----------



## ecclesand

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question about the Buggle boy : it's glowing really bright for less than a second when i turn the amp on and than reduce to "normal" (witch is not much), is that ok or shows a problem ?_

 

I have 50+ 12ax7 and 12at7 tubes (and variants) and have a handful that do this. I have only seen it in the European made tubes. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## oldwine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PaulyT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, sounds like the jack is maybe a little loose or dirty and is not making good contact with the plug. You could try cleaning the plug and the jack with a little rubbing alcohol on a cotton ball or q-tip for the inside of the jack. Other than that, might not be much you can do without replacing the jack - which is not terribly hard to do, but would require a little soldering.

 Edit: if you can't do it yourself, you could maybe take it to some local electronics place, it should be an easy repair. Possibly faster that way than sending back to Joe..._

 

Thanks Paul, I'll try to fix it then. If it is not ok, i think my last step is send back to Joe for a fix.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ecclesand* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have 50+ 12ax7 and 12at7 tubes (and variants) and have a handful that do this. I have only seen it in the European made tubes. I wouldn't worry about it._

 

I've asked my tube reseller and he said that it's indeed normal on tubes "with quick triggering" (à déclenchement rapide)


----------



## pytter

Just received my Jade! I only have the stock tubes right now and as to be expected the first couple of hours the sounds wasn't great but then it already started opening up and the sound is quite impressive! Can't wait to properly burn it in and put some nice NOS tubes in. Alas I'll be away now until after Easter but will endeavour to put a more detailed review here and in the Jade tube rolling thread in case anyone is interested.


----------



## LIos

Can't wait to receive mine :/
 It has been stuck at the Canadian customs for like 4 days now. So sad when you think it took barely 24h to get from Hong Kong to 500Km away from my home.
 I was considering the DT880/600 to go with it in a very near future. Will appreciate getting your opinion pytter on how they work together.

 edit: I got it now, very happy about it


----------



## LIos

Anyone knows how to remove the rotary knob ? there is a little hole on it but i can't figure what I need to insert in it to remove. Not even sure that's the purpose of the little hole. Thanks.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LIos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone knows how to remove the rotary knob ? there is a little hole on it but i can't figure what I need to insert in it to remove. Not even sure that's the purpose of the little hole. Thanks._

 

Funny yous ask now : i've tried this afternoon !!! But no way : tried with a small screwdriver, with a philips key : all to big.
 I wanted to reach this sunshine glowing led to cut it but it's not possible unless dismounting the board ! So this ugly masking strap will remain on the led ...


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Didege* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Funny yous ask now : i've tried this afternoon !!! But no way : tried with a small screwdriver, with a philips key : all to big.
 I wanted to reach this sunshine glowing led to cut it but it's not possible unless dismounting the board ! So this ugly masking strap will remain on the led ..._

 

It is a 2.5mm Hex Screw.


----------



## Didege

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a 2.5mm Hex Screw._

 

Thanks a lot, Joe. I'll try to get one !
 I haven't found the R31 resistor, is it under the PCB ? In order to lower the LED, is it a good idea to replace R31 ? if yes witch value would you recommend ?


----------



## pytter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it's not XLR outputs. You just use both the Yin/Yang output in a balanced 6.35 configuration. At least that's how I understand it._

 

I know this comment was relating to a HD650 balanced cable - but would a x-splitter have the same effect for my headphones which are not balanced? By x-splitter I mean the opposite of a y-splitter - ie a single (female ) input to two 1/4 inch jacks...

 Not that anyone seems to sell these, but should be easy enough to make/ have made.....

 Just wondering.......


----------



## MLA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pytter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this comment was relating to a HD650 balanced cable - but would a x-splitter have the same effect for my headphones which are not balanced? By x-splitter I mean the opposite of a y-splitter - ie a single (female ) input to two 1/4 inch jacks...

 Not that anyone seems to sell these, but should be easy enough to make/ have made.....

 Just wondering.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Unfortunately no. The point of the HD650 cable Joe makes is to drive the left and right headphone driver individually from one jack each. You can think of it as speaker cables and each jack playing the role of a monoblock. There is thus four wires in total, i.e. a lead and return for each driver, while the standard HD650 cable only contains three wires (the left and right leads plus a common return). Unless you add that fourth wire, splitting will not help (Joe's cables also has a "floating" shield, i.e. the shielding is connected on the amp side only). 

 While I think it has been argued elsewhere that from a very technical view, this is not truly a balanced cable (from what I understand that would require three wires per channel -lead, return, ground, all connected at both ends), it certainly is great for the sound! 

 How much comes from improved cable quality and how much from connection design is less easy to pick apart though. If you're interested in a lengthy discussion on the merits of balancing, check out Meier Audio and Lavry Engineering for two very contrasting takes on this issue.


----------



## LIos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a 2.5mm Hex Screw._

 

It was 1,5mm on mine , thanks for pointing it was a hex screw though. I have all the sizes on hands.

 Btw, not that i'm highly experimented with tube amps, but the Jade is without a doubt rendering the best music I ever heard. Except from a live band


----------



## MinoX

Hello Joe,
 can you tell me the price + shipping cost for Italy of the Jade,
 and the prices of the different upgrades + balanced cable for HD650?
 Thanks, Cosimo.


----------



## Hz_joe

Alps 27mm US$15 + Infinite cap (US$40) + neutrik Jack. - US$12 , Tube sockets US$10 

 Balance cable for Audiotailor Headphone amplifiers with 50% discount. US$60 x 0.5 = US$30


----------



## MinoX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alps 27mm US$15 + Infinite cap (US$40) + neutrik Jack. - US$12 , Tube sockets US$10 

 Balance cable for Audiotailor Headphone amplifiers with 50% discount. US$60 x 0.5 = US$30_

 

Ok Joe,
 I buy the full upgraded version Audiotailor Jade + balanced cable for HD650.
 Send me overall cost including shipping cost for Italy and Paypal charge, and your paypal address.
 Thanks, Cosimo.


----------



## LIos

@ Hz_joe,

 Is it OK if I listen using both output at the same time ? I sometime listen to music with my brother and being able to use both simultaneously would be very practical. I would use it with a 32ohm headphone in one and 250ohm in the other. thanks


----------



## Hz_joe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LIos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ Hz_joe,

 Is it OK if I listen using both output at the same time ? I sometime listen to music with my brother and being able to use both simultaneously would be very practical. I would use it with a 32ohm headphone in one and 250ohm in the other. thanks_

 

Yes ! Jade can use 2 Headphone at same time & not much difference in sound Level if sensitive of Headphone not much difference. (Even 1 low impedance & 1 high impedance.) Jade has lower gain in low impedance. Higher gain in high impedance.


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hz_joe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will have 2 version. 1 is full headphone amplifier. 1 is with pre-amp out & 3 Input._

 

I would be very interested to see more details about this A3 amp; in particular the pre-amp version. Will it still support the balanced HD650 setup as well?

 Thanks.


----------



## MinoX

Hi, I'm Cosimo, a new user of the beautiful Audiotailor Jade.
 First sorry for my bad English.

 I would replace the stock components with other better quality.

 For resistors I thought PRP PR9372 metal films for 1/2watt and RIKEN Carbon Film for 2watt. Any suggestions for PSU resistors (R34 = 100R R35 = 220K), MILLS MRA-5 there is not value 220K?

 For electrolytic caps which can i use better quality caps for PSU, headphone output caps (C7, C8 = 100uF 160V C18, C19 = 1000uf 35v), high voltage caps (C9, C11)?

 Can I put to 12AX7 Cathode Bypass Cap (C1, C2) to Improve sound quality and what value?

 Can parallel to the small value film cap with e-caps headphone output to Improve sound quality and what value?

 Which is better value for output coupling caps (C5, C6) 0.1 uf or .22 uf.

 Thank you.


----------



## runswithaliens

I forget, does that balanced cable work for the HD600, or just the HD650?
   
  Also, I still can't quite comprehend how, if both jacks are different sounding when used with a single-ended connection - how is it that if you use both at once for a balanced connection that you don't end up with one side of your headphones sounding different than the other???
   
  Oh, I guess it is also worth asking if the Jade amp is still for sale, and also has anyone heard any details yet for the A3 mentioned earlier this year?
   
  - thanks.


----------



## pekingduck

Yes the balance cable works for HD600 as well
   
  Quote: 





runswithaliens said:


> I forget, does that balanced cable work for the HD600, or just the HD650?
> 
> Also, I still can't quite comprehend how, if both jacks are different sounding when used with a single-ended connection - how is it that if you use both at once for a balanced connection that you don't end up with one side of your headphones sounding different than the other???
> 
> ...


----------



## KMASCII

runswithaliens:
  To add to pekingduck's response... the balanced cable does open the soundstage and adds separation of the instruments. In this respect you'll find that with a single ended cable the soundstage seems narrower than with the balanced cables. The sound also becomes less tube like. Though, not in a bad way. The sound is still decently smooth compared to the single. But balanced adds clarity to the full range (top to bottom). There are times when I switch back to listening with a single ended cable. Oddly those are the days when I just want to listen to a smoother/subdued sound, that the single ended cable provides.
   
  At one point I had thought that the right channel was sounding a touch more sparkly than the left. But now it doesn't appear so. Sometimes I do find myself repositioning my headphones (HD650) because I'm sensing some imbalance. Not a great annoyance and may just be due to the increased soundstage. In the beginning I discovered that the balanced cables I'd ordered had been wired backwards on the left channel cable (reversed polarity). So when I plug the left channel into my headphones I have to make sure and orient the "L" on the headphone plug inwards, towards my noggin'. Unlike the right side, of which the "R" faces outward.
   
  I've swapped out the Infinity caps upgrade for some Ampohm caps. I found the Infinity's were a smidgen too laid back at the high end. I perceived it like a high-end roll off (though I do listen with HD650's which some say, or have said were rolled off or dark sounding, personally I don't think so). I experimented with bypassing the Infinity's with some Russian teflons. Argh... big mistake. They certainly brought sparkle and bass bloom, but they really messed up the nice mid-range detail the Infinity's had. Bad caps... bad bypass caps. The Ampohms, on the other hand, turned out to be a real cure for the high end roll off. Wonderful, wonderful mid-range clarity and texture with a bit more high-end reach. When I first installed the Ampohms they were bright and brittle... let's say they had a transistor radio type high-end (well that may be a slight exaggeration). I thought "Oh crap, another stupid mistake". After about a half hour the brightness was gone and they've since mellowed a lot more and just work lovely in the Jade... at least I like 'em. I love their reproduction of the mid-range. Not as tubey as the Infinity's but more balance overall.


----------



## Ninkul

Just got mine, seems good. Cant seem to get the cage on since i dont have a screwdriver than can reach in there . I don't have a desk yet so i'm a bit paranoid


----------



## LIos

been listening to mine for over 2 months now, from a audigy2 zs and with the stock tubes. Even with those less than ideal factor, I find it sounds absolutely awesome. I installed the cage at first, but i removed it after a few days. I find it looks better without it. The cage that came with mine is silver instead of black, it looks like it is not made to go with that amp. Like its a very different style. Similar to wearing bright yellow socks with a clean black tux and black shoes...yeah i'm not very good with analogies :/


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





kmascii said:


> runswithaliens:
> To add to pekingduck's response... the balanced cable does open the soundstage and adds separation of the instruments. In this respect you'll find that with a single ended cable the soundstage seems narrower than with the balanced cables. The sound also becomes less tube like. Though, not in a bad way. The sound is still decently smooth compared to the single. But balanced adds clarity to the full range (top to bottom). There are times when I switch back to listening with a single ended cable. Oddly those are the days when I just want to listen to a smoother/subdued sound, that the single ended cable provides.
> 
> At one point I had thought that the right channel was sounding a touch more sparkly than the left. But now it doesn't appear so. Sometimes I do find myself repositioning my headphones (HD650) because I'm sensing some imbalance. Not a great annoyance and may just be due to the increased soundstage. In the beginning I discovered that the balanced cables I'd ordered had been wired backwards on the left channel cable (reversed polarity). So when I plug the left channel into my headphones I have to make sure and orient the "L" on the headphone plug inwards, towards my noggin'. Unlike the right side, of which the "R" faces outward.
> ...


 
   
   
  Teflon caps take a* long* time to settle (regardless of manufacturer). How much burn in time did you give them ? The ones I've used took at least 700 hours or more before they started to sound right.
   
  Peete.


----------



## KMASCII

Hey Peete. I have to confess that I'm not a huge believer in letting caps burn in a long time. So I had about 80-90 hours on the Russian Teflons. I originally had them in my Little Dot MKIII, with which they worked very well. I just don't think they pair well with the Infinity caps. The teflons were of 0.1uf value. Perhaps a 0.01uf would pair better? I don't know. But I'm lovin' the Ampohms. Still a slight uneveness in the highs, otherwise they have really good, smooth definition throughout.
   
  Ken


----------



## pytter

I have had mine now for about 2-3 months and am very happy with it.  It is a perfect combination with my Beyerdynamic  DT-880. 
   
  Have a question for other Jade owners:  I am looking for a closed design headphone so I can listen to the amp when my wife is watching TV - without having to hear what she is watching (American Idol/ Next Top Model/ etc..) Budget is under £200/ $300 for the moment.  I really need the view of a Jade owner as I want a set of headphones that matches the amp (and not the other way around!)
   
  Any suggestions?


----------



## Skylab

DT770/600 - sounds a lot like the DT880 but closed.  Nice can, and Isolates really well.


----------



## pytter

Thanks Skylab!  I know the D7000 are not in my budget, but out of curiosity how do they sound on the Jade?


----------



## Skylab

I never had the two at the same time, sorry.


----------



## elwappo99

Finally got a Chatham tube in my Jade and it's really really impressive. Definitely opened up and became much more detailed.


----------



## elwappo99

Was wondering if anyone has heard both the Audiotailor Jade and a Woo Audio product, and could comment on them?  thanks!


----------



## melomaniac

yes, I have heard WA3+ and the Jade. as the review already points out, the Jade has one "tubey" and one less "tubey" mode, and the WA3+ with the same headphones sounds like a happy medium between the two Jade sounds - powerful and well-rounded, with good bass and good detail in the mids/highs. in the end I guess it's about what headphone and what music you like. try them yourself - there's no substitute.


----------



## Hz_joe

I'm sorry ! I say 2A3 version of Jade is under developt but noise level still listenable. It will not release in a short time.


----------



## elwappo99

I've got quite a collection of tubes, and I have to say, the Chatham and Raytheon are my favorites! Really make this amp sing! 
   
   
  The Chatham is very detailed and clear
   
  The raytheon is not as detailed and somewhat dark, and also has a huge soundstage!


----------



## bpj87

I have a quick question about my Jade.  I've been a very happy owner for over a year, but there is some hum present that I can't seem to troubleshoot.  It's not functionally bothersome, so I've never inquired previously.
   
  Tube rolling and powering the amp in different buildings do not affect it.
  It is present in both channels, more prominent on the left, but is only audible without music playing.
  The volume of the hum increases with turning the volume dial.
   
  Is this just transformer hum endemic to the Jade?  Or is my unit somehow at fault?
   
  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Hz_joe

Thank for your support very much. Noise seem to be come from source  if it is volumn level depedence.
  amplifier has problem  :
   
  1.           Hum at any volumn level.
  2.           Hum at start , end or some dedicate level.


----------



## bpj87

Thanks, Joe!  I have a DAC-19DSP on the way, so we'll see if that cures the problem.
  
  Quote: 





hz_joe said:


> Thank for your support very much. Noise seem to be come from source  if it is volumn level depedence.
> amplifier has problem  :
> 
> 1.           Hum at any volumn level.
> 2.           Hum at start , end or some dedicate level.


----------



## elwappo99

I had that combo about 2 weeks ago.... its so delicate
  
  Quote: 





bpj87 said:


> Thanks, Joe!  I have a DAC-19DSP on the way, so we'll see if that cures the problem.


----------



## colfishnski

Joe,
   
  I would like to confirm current prices of Jade shipped to the US.
   
  Standard Jade?
   
  Upgraded Jade?
   
  HD600 balanced cable in longer lengths?
   
  Shipping method: EMS?
   
  Lead time for standard and upgraded?
   
  How I pay? PayPal?
   
  thanks very much!


----------



## Hz_joe

Standard Jade ship to USA  - US$330
  Standard Jade ship wihtin 2 days. Upgrade Jade  - 1 Week.
   
  My Paypal : Joe@tubehifi.com


----------



## Hz_joe

HD600 Cable length - 2M


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'm about to order, just don't know what coupling cap to get (option)
   
  MIT PPMFX or Infinite. Is it worth it over the stock? Which one is best?
  Are the teflon sockets worth the 10$?
   
  I'm taking the Neutrik jacks and the Alp volume pot for sure
   
  thanks!


----------



## Hz_joe

Infite cap is better, Yes ! Upgrade to blue telfon socket US$10 for 3 sockets.


----------



## lionel marechal

Hello,
   
  Is this product still supported and sold ? Audiotailor website is ... hem ... better not to talk about it.
   
  My thoughts would be to use the Yang output for my HD650 and the Yin one for the RS2, which is why that product seems great to me, for that duality.
  I have already a DV336 (With Mullard tubes I believe, not sure because I do not have it on hand) that I use with the Grado at a secondary location and occasionally. seems to be a good alternative. Going HDP would be a solution for the HD650 from what I understand, and DAC included, but I am concerned it might be a bit bright for the RS2 if it fits well the HD650.
   
   
  Thank you !
  Lionel


----------



## elwappo99

This is still my primary Tube amp. I definitely use it with a low gain setting for my Grado sr225, and when I had them, it would definitely push my hd650s. Still a really great amp, imo.
  
  Quote: 





lionel marechal said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is this product still supported and sold ? Audiotailor website is ... hem ... better not to talk about it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mike theSwede

Hello,
   
  I am new member at this fantastic forum 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This Audiotailor Jade Headphone amplifier seems to be a really good one. I spent a whole day reading this thread and i now feel that i need one also. When will the Jade A3 version with preamp out be released? I would like to use the Jade with headphones, small speakers (10watts / 4Ω) and also route the sound back to my computer so i can record the "warmer" sound. Would this be possible with the Jade A3 version?


----------



## RiDeC58

I am interested in the Jade Amp, but can't seem to figure out how to order it.  The Web site does not seem to offer the option to buy and seems to offer no contact info.  Can someone point me towards a vendor of some type?   Thanks.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ridec58 said:


> I am interested in the Jade Amp, but can't seem to figure out how to order it.  The Web site does not seem to offer the option to buy and seems to offer no contact info.  Can someone point me towards a vendor of some type?   Thanks.


 


  You should pm HZ_Joe, he's the Audiotailer seller: http://www.head-fi.org/user/hz_joe
  Or mail sales@audiotailor.com
   
  Good luck


----------



## RiDeC58

Thank you.


----------



## klipschman70

Joe
   
  Is Jade A3 has been released as we speak?


----------



## Mischif

Is this amp still available?


----------



## Skylab

Good question - I have no idea.


----------



## Mischif

I PM'd HZ_Joe, hopefully I will have an answer soon.


----------



## Mischif

Just an FYI, I heard back from Joe and he still has a couple Jades available. Just email him if you are interested. It took him several weeks to get back to me so don't expect a quick reply.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





mischif said:


> Just an FYI, I heard back from Joe and he still has a couple Jades available. Just email him if you are interested. It took him several weeks to get back to me so don't expect a quick reply.


 


  Sad to hear. This was definitely one of the finer tube amps I have ever heard.


----------



## keithd

Great Review.  I just bought one and I'm finding that it is very quiet.  Anyone else out there with a Jade get that?


----------



## smial1966

Amp City (a UK retailer) has the Jade listed for sale -
   
http://www.ampcity.co.uk/amplifiers/audiotailor-jade-tube-amp.html


----------



## tigersinacage

Resurrecting a bit of an old thread here... but has anyone tried this with Beyer DT880's (250ohm)? I'm stuck between the Jade and a Little Dot MK3, but so far the Audiotailor is coming out on top. I'd also be running this with an E17 as a standalone DAC. Thoughts on that?
   
  Also, wondering how the bass response is, as even just the smallest boost would be nice for the DT880's.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





tigersinacage said:


> Resurrecting a bit of an old thread here... but has anyone tried this with Beyer DT880's (250ohm)? I'm stuck between the Jade and a Little Dot MK3, but so far the Audiotailor is coming out on top. I'd also be running this with an E17 as a standalone DAC. Thoughts on that?
> 
> Also, wondering how the bass response is, as even just the smallest boost would be nice for the DT880's.


 
   
   
  I've owned both amps whilst having a pair of DT880. Do you have either amp at this point?


----------



## MDR30

Anyone tried the 12BZ7 tube? Similar to 12AX7 but higher amplification and drawing twice (300 mA) the current.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





mdr30 said:


> Anyone tried the 12BZ7 tube? Similar to 12AX7 but higher amplification and drawing twice (300 mA) the current.


 
   
  Wow, can't believe I saw this thread pop up on my subscription list. No idea on the tube though, sorry to say. I don't think there are many owners of this amp left :/
   
  I'm still trying to find one in the used market and haven't had much luck.


----------



## MDR30

Well, I got one here in Sweden, decided to take a chance and bought it. Sounds terrific, extraordinary three dimensionality and airiness. Got a handful of tubes to play with, but it sounds so good with the Sylvania 5751 and the DDR RSD 6AS7G that I don't want to change one thing at the moment.

Listened mostly with the K401 and modified K500.

Have not tried the HD580 with balanced cable yet, am too impressed with the K401 delivery. 

Such a wonderful listening experience is good enough cause to keep this thread alive, I think.

Oh, and my guess is that the 12BZ7 would work, there should be enough juice in the filament supply to the power tube to accomodate those few extra milliamperes.


----------



## MDR30

Finally plunged and tried the 12BZ7 which seems to work fine with the Audiotailor Jade - at least for a short while.
   
  Made a few attempts to contact Joe the engineer about this, but without success.
   
  This is one strange amp with its two outputs afflicting each other (it sounds best with two headphones connected), but the transparency is outstanding. This is a keeper which will get my attention for a few tube rolling weeks. In pic below are a RCA 7025 and a Hewlett Packard (RCA) 6AS7G tube.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





mdr30 said:


> Finally plunged and tried the 12BZ7 which seems to work fine with the Audiotailor Jade - at least for a short while.
> 
> Made a few attempts to contact Joe the engineer about this, but without success.
> 
> This is one strange amp with its two outputs afflicting each other (it sounds best with two headphones connected), but the transparency is outstanding. This is a keeper which will get my attention for a few tube rolling weeks. In pic below are a RCA 7025 and a Hewlett Packard (RCA) 6AS7G tube.


 
   
  Glad to hear nothing overheated with the added current! I think I see some AKG's hanging there? Maybe a K40X or K500?
   
  Unfortunately, I don't think Audiotailor picked up enough steam to keep the company running. Haven't been able to track anything down and haven't heard much about it since.


----------



## MDR30

Well, Audiotailor's parent company Antiques Sound Lab seems to be continuing their business with an array of tube amps:
   
  http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html
   
  Don't know if Joe still does their designs.
  
  Oh, you're right about the AKGs: the K401 is my current favourite. Best sound stage I heard.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





mdr30 said:


> Well, Audiotailor's parent company Antiques Sound Lab seems to be continuing their business with an array of tube amps:
> 
> http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html
> 
> ...


 
   
  I knew Antique sound lab was still around, but Audiotailor seemed to just disappear. I never really understood their relationship much either.
   
  Ah! I owned the K501 and from what I hear those are very similar sounding headphones. I can only imaging what the pairing sounds like. That amp had one of the mushiest gushiest tube sounds I've ever heard, and was it sweet!
   
  Happy listening to you


----------



## MDR30

Fetched a late period pair of K400 from Germany at the shop half an hour ago, and just plugged it in to see it works. With the Matisse as preamp from the rockboxed FLAC Sansa Clip it sounds amazing through the Audiotailor Jade.

Listened to Jeanette Lindström's amazing Attitude & Orbit Control with Robert Wyatt and Magnus Öström (from Esbjörn Svensson Trio) and it's quite a listening experience.

What space! Seems some of these vintage cans have potential beyond belief.


----------



## geetarman49

Quote: 





mdr30 said:


> Well, Audiotailor's parent company Antiques Sound Lab seems to be continuing their business with an array of tube amps:
> 
> http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html
> 
> ...


 

 i happen to have the upgraded version of the jade released under the asl marque - the _asl headphone pre dt_.
  for those interested, suggest you check with divertech.com to see if any units are still available.


----------



## Skylab

IIRC, Audiotailor was more of a spin-off/splinter group from ASL, rather than ASL being its "Parent Company".


----------



## MDR30

skylab said:


> IIRC, Audiotailor was more of a spin-off/splinter group from ASL, rather than ASL being its "Parent Company".




Interesting. Do you still have the Jade? I'm interested to know if anyone ever tried the output transformer Joe talked about to make it more versatile with different headphone impedances. Anyone know what happened to the designer, Joseph Lau?


----------



## Skylab

No, I haven't had the Jade in a long time.


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## MDR30

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No, I haven't had the Jade in a long time.


 
   
  Would be interesting to know how you would compare it to other present day OTL designs, if your aural memory allows. I find it very transparent and persuasive, bringing out certain qualities in recordings that elude other amps.
   
  Just put in a Hewlett and Packard output tube (manufactured by RCA) that sounds great.
   
  Are there other designs of this simplicity with cathode and plate outputs and so few components available?


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## MDR30

Am now preparing a balanced connection with my K400 and K500 headphones. Takes some thinking with double TRS plugs.

12BH7 driver tube also works well, just tried a Sylvania NOS from 1961. Sounds very warm and enveloping, can recommend it. No hiss and buzz like there was to a smaller degree (volume pot) with a RCA 12BZ7. 

Next stop: a vintage GEC 6AS7G arriving from Australia.


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## MDR30

Does anyone know if the 12AX7 runs on 6,3 or 12,6 V filament?


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## Skylab

The "12" in 12AX7 provides your answer


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## MDR30

skylab said:


> The "12" in 12AX7 provides your answer




That's right, but the 12AX7 can also be driven with 6,3V using an alternative connection. Since the Jade's 6AS7G use 6,3V filament, I suspect the transformer delivers that voltage.

It would decide if I can use a 6SL7 or a12SL7 as alternative driver tube with adapter.


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## JoeLau

Thank for support very much. I'm busy in these years due to factory join venture  with European company.  I had no time to take care headphone amp sales. I even lost my old account information.  You can contact me by  13809830091@139.com.  I wil redesign Jade soon. It willl have a 42 steps relay base steps attenuator, more better sound, with remote.....


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## Fizz

joelau said:


> Thank for support very much. I'm busy in these years due to factory join venture  with European company.  I had no time to take care headphone amp sales. I even lost my old account information.  You can contact me by  13809830091@139.com.  I wil redesign Jade soon. It willl have a 42 steps relay base steps attenuator, more better sound, with remote.....


 
 Interesting


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## elwappo99

joelau said:


> Thank for support very much. I'm busy in these years due to factory join venture  with European company.  I had no time to take care headphone amp sales. I even lost my old account information.  You can contact me by  13809830091@139.com.  I wil redesign Jade soon. It willl have a 42 steps relay base steps attenuator, more better sound, with remote.....


 
  
 Great to hear from you! Excited to see what you come up with next!


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## MDR30

mdr30 said:


> That's right, but the 12AX7 can also be driven with 6,3V using an alternative connection. Since the Jade's 6AS7G use 6,3V filament, I suspect the transformer delivers that voltage.
> 
> It would decide if I can use a 6SL7 or a12SL7 as alternative driver tube with adapter.



 
 
I checked and measured and the 12AX7 filament is 6,3 V. So I got a 6SL7 adapter (6,3 V, from lowther_club Hong Kong) and had some very nice sounds coming from a Tung Sol 6SL7 and a GEC 6AS7G. Will send pics later.


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## MDR30

Listened to some classic stereo tracks, sounds terrific. Here's a photo:


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## MDR30

A Full Sound 6SL7 to the right, with adapter for 6.3 V filament 12AX7. Sounds as good as it looks, among the very best I've heard in this combination.


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## MDR30

joelau said:


> Thank for support very much. I'm busy in these years due to factory join venture  with European company.  I had no time to take care headphone amp sales. I even lost my old account information.  You can contact me by  13809830091@139.com.  I wil redesign Jade soon. It willl have a 42 steps relay base steps attenuator, more better sound, with remote.....




Good to know you're still in business. I've been enjoying my Audiotailor Jade thoroughly, and it's very gratifying rolling tubes. 

The amp was designed for the 6AS7 and 12AX7, drawing 2,5 and 0,3 A respectively. Is it safe to replace the 12AX7 with the 12BZ7 which draws 0,6 A? Want to make sure it is within the limits of the mains transformer. I've used it frequently without any problems and it's quite powerful.


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## Hz_joe

It is no problem to use driver tube with 600ma.  Driver Filament section of Jade can up to 800ma without problem.


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## elwappo99

hz_joe said:


> It is no problem to use driver tube with 600ma.  Driver Filament section of Jade can up to 800ma without problem.


 
  
 Hey you got your account back! Can't wait to hear new things from you!


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## MDR30

This amp is a strange animal!

Did some tube rolling with newly acquired 6L7s (1954 Melz and smoked RCA, as well as Mullard E180CC and others) and those magic spatial qualities were absent.

Turned out I had a different AKG (K401) connected to the second output (right), with my favourite K500 in the left. Changed to two K500s and that made all the difference - symmetrical load! 

Another reminder that I really should make a double-plug mod for balanced drive of my K500 as described by Joe early in this thread (he also supplied a cable like that for the 600/650 Sennheisers as well).


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## Hz_joe

New Headphone amp are under developt.  It is upgrade from Jade.
 12AX7 x 1 , 6AS7 x 2 , 6AS7 Loading by CCS. Top model will use Reed relay base 42 steps, step attenuator. It is 2db/Steps. Very low pop noise. It may be will release around 2 ~ 3 weeks. Other hybird Jade also will comming soon.


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## MDR30

Let's hope the new one comes to stay. Reliability, good service and long term commitment are fundamentals to establish a brand.
  
 In the meantime I'm quite happily enjoying my old Audiotailor Jade. First mod entering my mind is the output capacitors. What's the optimum choice, large electrolytic and quick polypropylene? Values?
  
 This is what the board looks like:
  

  

  
 Can't read the values of the output caps but the schematic says 100uF I believe. Also note all the squares provided for components not included. Simplification of circuit?


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## MDR30

Telefunken ECC81: should I break the cellophane seal of this original box and try it out as a driver tube in my Audiotailor Jade?
 

 
It may be the perfect combination with the GEC6AS7G.
 
Or the Tung Sol 5998, which I haven't really tested yet.


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## MDR30

Listen more to this combination than the 007. Lovely music making.


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## oghoter

Whatever happens in the future, I think the original Audiotailor Jade deserves to be called a classic. I've enjoyed it each day for five years, partly through AKG 701s and partly through Sony active speakers. Best audio investment I ever made. It made me rethink my main rig, and go for OTL there also. Joseph Lau should get a prize for this one.


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## geetarman49

don't know if anyone is still following this thread ... posts are few & far between & Joe's new version is nowhere to be found?
 however, the original is still very good ... but can be made great with a few easy mods (i've got the antique sound lab version of the jade complete with usb dac).
  
 1) change the coupling caps ... i used multicap rtx & soon to be changed again to clarity mr.
 2) change the 1st set of output caps ... i used elna silmic II for the 1000uf electrolytics.
 3) change the 2nd set of output caps ... i used dayton film/foil instead of the 100uf electrolytics.
  
 for tubes i am currently using 5751 windmill getter as driver and curved brown base osram 6as7g.
 (first photo shows some caps under consideration at the time ...)


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## elwappo99

geetarman49 said:


> don't know if anyone is still following this thread ... posts are few & far between & Joe's new version is nowhere to be found?
> however, the original is still very good ... but can be made great with a few easy mods (i've got the antique sound lab version of the jade complete with usb dac).
> 
> 1) change the coupling caps ... i used multicap rtx & soon to be changed again to clarity mr.
> ...


 
  
 Hah! I like that case you've got! 
  
 I occasionally check back on this thread in hopes Joe will have some update information as well.


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## MLA

Second that, very cool case!
  
 Currently running my Jade with Audyn Cap Plus as coupling capacitors and very happy with that. Lots of speed and dynamics to go around, especially when driving with Tungsol 7802 and Telefunken 12ax7, a combo that rocks, IMHO...
  
 Also checking the thread from time to time; wondering if Joe's A3 will ever go live, or if he's too caught up in other things, or if that design went "commercial" (as in Antique Soundlab) right away.


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## MDR30

Some times, your aural impressions outshine previous experiences. That was the case with the Audiotailor Jade balanced output.
 
I've discovered new "realistic" spatial information in loads of 1960s and 1970s recordings, where ambience and "leaks" are adding to the musical enjoyment. What we call three dimensional reproduction.
 
Sergio Mendes, Dave Brubeck, Simon and Garfunkel, Bert Kaempfert, Burt Bacharach... they put time and effort in musical arrangements and production in those days - it was expensive to make a hit record!
 
Headphones like AKG K500 and Sennheiser HD565 that can be had for a bargain used rise to another level with the Audiotailor Jade.
 
Will send some pics shortly of my latest combinations.


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## geetarman49

thnx elwappo, mla
  
 sorry for the delay in responding ... for some obscure reason i don't get any email alerts from head-fi forums anymore.
 some observations concerning my modded asl:  the multicap rtx are great ... best singular option improvement --- however, i seek more & will install clarity mr within the next day or two.   replacing 100uf electrolytic output caps with 100uf dayton film/foil brings unbelievable fullness to the bass and lower-mids ... but i think it is too slow.  i'll try exchanging these for similar solen.  by contrast, the 1000uf electrolytic silmic II will make you think it's solid-state in comparison to the dayton film.
  
 while i'm tempted to replace some of the resistors with vishay bulk foil, i think $ are best spent on the coupling caps & both sets of output caps. i also have my eye on c9 - i'll try to squeeze another big solen film cap there in place of the 22uf electrolytic.
  
 here's a few more pix with the first showing a dummy load which i use for in situ burning of fresh caps (i don't use those tubes for burn-in - i use the original chinese tubes for that task):


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## geetarman49

mdr30 said:


> Some times, your aural impressions outshine previous experiences. That was the case with the Audiotailor Jade balanced output.
> 
> I've discovered new "realistic" spatial information in loads of 1960s and 1970s recordings, where ambience and "leaks" are adding to the musical enjoyment. What we call three dimensional reproduction.
> 
> ...


 

 i keep meaning to get on with balanced cabling for my q701, but that is a daunting task for me ... especially trying to punch out the 3-wire mini-jack & substituting a 4-wire job.
 however, i'm grateful for your impressions of quasi-balanced - looking forward to trying it out myself ... one of these days.


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## MDR30

Tha Audiotailor Jade still gets plenty of head time despite some heavy competition. As is obvious from the last few pages it responds well to tube rolling.
  
 Here's my latest set-up which seems to suit Sennheiser. Had a friend over, an avid AKG fan, but when he listened to the HD600 run balanced on the Audiotailor he  admitted: "This sounds bl***y good!"
  
 A Ken-Rad 6C8G as driver (characteristics similar to 12AY7) and a Raytheon 6F8G as output tube (similar to 6SN7) with suitable adapters available from flea bay. Not as low output impedance as 6AS7G, but driving the Sennheiser very well. Lower amplification factor means volume must be increased, but it is still seldom over 11 o'clock when driven balanced.
  

  

  
 Wonder if Joe ever will present the upgraded Jade (see post #916). Sure would be interesting to hear.


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## elwappo99

mdr30 said:


> Tha Audiotailor Jade still gets plenty of head time despite some heavy competition. As is obvious from the last few pages it responds well to tube rolling.
> 
> Here's my latest set-up which seems to suit Sennheiser. Had a friend over, an avid AKG fan, but when he listened to the HD600 run balanced on the Audiotailor he  admitted: "This sounds bl***y good!"
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I was shocked to see this pop up my subcription. If I ever get a chance I would happily grab one of these again. I'm not sure what happened to Joe. That newer unit would have been very interesting.


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## Vazzee

Hi there,
  
 Does anyone have the "manual" for the Jade? I just sold mine but I can't find the the manual and I can't remember of the function of the rear panel switch where the inputs and the power connector is.

 I would really appreciate any help!
  
 It works for him now, so I said that don't touch the rear switch in case it would swap between 110V and 240V instead of being an input selector.

 Cheers and have a great weekend!


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## MLA

For the two I have had, the rear switch is the input selector, not voltage.


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## Vazzee

Many thanks!

 Have a great evening!


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## oghoter

On my unit, it switches between a pair of RCA inputs (on the right, as seen from the front), and a minijack input (on the left).
  
 This little amp (which I use mainly to enhance active speakers) still works like a gem in my chain:
 Digital files > DAC > Jade > Sony SRS-ZX1 speakers.
 It can probably be tweaked to new heights.
 I compare with my large system OTLs (Atma-sphere MA-1 v 3.3), and it works well, in my home office context.
  
 Two rules appear, from this usage.
 -The better the digital files and the DAC, the greater the benefit of the Jade.
 -The more of the total amplification that the goes to the Jade (to a limit), the better the sound
  
 I bought the Jade mainly as a headphone amp, and got a balanced cable from Auditotailor, which made the HD600 sound great indeed.
 However, the cable broke down, and also the 600 felt uncomfortable in the longer run, so I sold them, and bought a pair of AKG701 instead - which I generally like more.
 But I have never tried them with balanced cable. I don't know, can the 701 be modified to run balanced with Jade?
  
 Tubes: in my context, all fairly good tubes work well in the Jade, they mainly give me what I want. Listening more deeply, I have come to prefer a combination of NOS RCA output big bottle tubes (or perhaps GEC, not sure) and a NOS Telefunken driver tube.
  
 All the best,
 Oystein


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## Vazzee

Thank you for your help!
  
 I find it great to see that how a fairly priced gem can bring so much joy into peoples lives!


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## oghoter

Yes - this is the case - a gem indeed. I had a scatching noise problem with the Jade some years ago but it was repaired since I was present when the service man opened the box. He could not find any fault, neither could I. Then I asked, could he look also at the top of the print card. There, we found a broken connection. It has run trouble-free ever since.


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## oghoter

Today I cut the plug off my AKG 701 and soldered two TRS plugs, to run it balanced from the Jade. I remember my HD600 sounded very good after I got a balanced cable from Audiotailor but it broke down after some months. I have read it is an easy mod on the 701. Well, yes and no. I followed the rather cryptic instructions from Joe earlier in this thread, plus debate on the 701. So I soldered the yellow  lead to the tip (+) and the black lead to the ring (-) on one TRS plug, and the orange to the tip and the white to the ring on the other TRS. I did this after fiddling around for a while, using my fingers plus tape on the naked plugs, trying to get correct sound, since there have been reports that the connections of these leads in the headphone can vary, and opening it is difficult. Ok, well done, I thought. But then I noticed: I had mono! Oh well. But - if I pull one of the TRS plugs a bit out of the Jade contact, I get stereo. This must mean that the tip of the plug touches the ring in the contact. The sound is weaker than in mono (maybe, since mono is a sum of the two channels), but seems OK otherwise, not out of phase. Anyone else with experience at this point?


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## Sraitsa

Would anyone happen to have the general fix for the hum that can appear with the Audiotailor Jade that develops? I would believe that it is related to the grounding. The hum seems to be not altered by volume and is present of both channels.


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## elwappo99

Sraitsa said:


> Would anyone happen to have the general fix for the hum that can appear with the Audiotailor Jade that develops? I would believe that it is related to the grounding. The hum seems to be not altered by volume and is present of both channels.



This is an old thread indeed. Sounds like it could be a ground loop issue. Remove the RCA input cables. If that removes the hum, you can get a ground loop isolator to help. If it doesn't, try the amp in a few different outlets or a completely different house.


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## MLA (Dec 9, 2017)

Depends on your unit. The early production units had a grounding error on the pcb that required cutting a trace on the pcb to fix. I think most of those were sent back and fixed by Joe, but if yours happen to be an unfixed one, the hum should not be developing; rather, it should be there immediately at turn on. Solutions to that (with pics) are available early in the thread.

If it's a later unit, then that is fixed and you have some other issue. If it actaully develops over time rather than being present immediately, first isolate it to the actual amp as elwappo99 suggests (remove all inputs), and if the hum is still there I'd suggest swapping the tubes out before doing anything more drastic.


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## Sraitsa

MLA said:


> Depends on your unit. The early production units had a grounding error on the pcb that required cutting a trace on the pcb to fix. I think most of those were sent back and fixed by Joe, but if yours happen to be an unfixed one, the hum should not be developing; rather, it should be there immediately at turn on. Solutions to that (with pics) are available early in the thread.
> 
> If it's a later unit, then that is fixed and you have some other issue. If it actaully develops over time rather than being present immediately, first isolate it to the actual amp as elwappo99 suggests (remove all inputs), and if the hum is still there I'd suggest swapping the tubes out before doing anything more drastic.


Thanks for the response. I guess that it must be either a capacitor that has gone faulty or a ground solder joint has gone (valves were the first to be tested). I am certainly leaning towards the solder joints as the ones around the main socket aren't looking good at a glance. Locating the circuit diagram would certainly make life easier.


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## MLA

Never saw a diagram so unfortunately I think you’re on your own there... Reflowing all the joints is quick once you take it apart, so that’s probably a good start. Never got hum from a bad cap, only hiss, but that may be a matter of acoustic semantics  The upgrade coupling caps (if you have those) Would be easy to desolder and test with the unit open.


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## oghoter (Aug 11, 2018)

Yes, this is an old thread - but that may also be taken as a positive sign. Jade remains an interesting preamp, and in my case, it runs very well, making my home office active speakers sound way better than they were supposed to. But then, they are single driver speakers following up the minimalist philosophy. My unit - bought from Joe in 2009 - does not have the hum problem described above. It has given a lot of pleasant and useful service, rising to the occasion, when the source feed is better, like DSD from my Fiio DAP, or when Tidal has succeeded in a good "master" recording, it shows the difference. The OTL advantage is larger, the better the source. So for me, it is a keeper.

I have a question for you. The Jade needs a bit of service soon. There is some scratching in the volume control, and jack outputs. So I wonder, can a repair be combined with a few improvements, at a service shop. What would be the two-three things to do - components to change - in terms of sonic upgrade?


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## MDR30

A couple of months each year I listen to this amp regularly only to discover how nice it sounds with my go-to-headphones. I've driven it balanced almost from the beginning and the spaciousness is admirable. Also gives me the opportunity do some tube rolling which I seldom have time for (and also to sell off some tubes). Check this album out, a minor masterpiece with a sound world made for headphones:



Right now the Audiotailor is driven by a Telefunken ECC83 and a Mullard 6AS7G/6080 with excellent results.

A pity we've not seen the daylight of this OTL amp promised by Joseph Lau in 2013:



Hz_joe said:


> New Headphone amp are under developt.  It is upgrade from Jade.
> 12AX7 x 1 , 6AS7 x 2 , 6AS7 Loading by CCS. Top model will use Reed relay base 42 steps, step attenuator. It is 2db/Steps. Very low pop noise. It may be will release around 2 ~ 3 weeks. Other hybird Jade also will comming soon.


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## MDR30 (Oct 3, 2021)

Inspired by Hazy_Joe I did some experiments with tubes and adapters which turned out quite interesting. I have mainly tried members of the 12A_7 family for the driver stage, and some of their predecessors (6SL7, 6F8G - below).





But why not widen the field?

Mullard turned out to provide some fine combinations. The 6080 output tube above with a ECC 40 (adapter) sounds very nice, big soundstage and nice power delivery despite lower gain than 12AX7.





As the anode voltage of the Audiotailor is 126V it is also possible to use an ECC88 (adapter) which has an upper limit of 130V. A very homogeneous sound.





But one of the big surprises was the Sylvania 6CG7, a medium mu tube that comes cheaply. I recommend you to try it, very lively without being aggressive. Here with a Tung-Sol 5998.





The power tube above is among the best, but it does not reach the same level of detail and expansion as the Tung-Sol 7802 tube, rare as hens' teeth. This is at the moment running with a Voshkod 6N2P and I won't change that for a while.





This is a very nice amp.


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## MDR30

Switched driver tubes so many times that the socket wore out, irritating intermittent pin contact.

Replaced it and all is fine. The amp still impresses, despite competition from a handful other very good amps.


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