# Review: Woo Audio WA6 vs. WA6SE (stock units)



## Orcin

My recent quest for a new amplifier eventually led to an exploration of tube amps under $1,000. As any experienced Head-Fi’er knows, “under $1,000” means $1,200 plus shipping. The Houston Head-Fi Meet was going to provide plenty of good amps to audition in the solid-state camp along with a few good tube amps in my price range. However, one solid company would not be represented: Woo Audio.

 This absence was rectified (pun intended) with an email to Jack Wu, who promptly offered to send two demo units to the meet. I identified the WA6 as my primary target, and he also offered to send along the more expensive WA6SE. Like any good salesman, I presume he smelled blood in the water when I mentioned Head-Fi.

 (I don’t want to move on without saying how pleasant and efficient it was to deal with Jack. I am confident that Woo Audio’s customer service is among the best that our hobby has to offer.)

 The WA6SE improves on the WA6 design with a separate power supply enclosure and direct-coupling to the driver tubes. I am not going to expound upon this or other technical aspects of the amps further, in order to avoid exposing my ignorance. Instead, I would direct you to Woo Audio’s website or to other Head-Fi threads on this topic, such jamato8’s thread about modding the WA6 where ideas such as the parts upgrades and pseudo dual power supply mod originated.

 The two units supplied were stock models. This is what Jack offered so I didn’t choose it that way, but I was happy about it. I would only have the units for a week, and that wouldn’t allow enough time to burn-in upgraded parts. In addition, I would not be able to stretch my budget to include the WA6SE plus upgrades plus tubes plus whatever else I was destined to buy after the meet. I really wanted to hear the stock WA6 against the improved power supply and other WA6SE advantages.

 The system for this review was my MHDT Paradisea+ DAC with WE396A tube fed via optical from a Sony SCD595, and the headphones were my stock HD600’s. The interconnect cables were the Zu Oxyfuel and I used a Volex 17604 power cord on the amps.

 I was able to convince Jack (a nice guy as I said before) to send along a $150 Sophia Princess 274B rectifier tube for the meet. Due to the overwhelming acclaim for this tube, I was determined to do this review with the stock tubes, or at least some decent NOS tubes, before rolling this rectifier in. I did not want to color the results for someone without the appetite for tubes costing 25% of the price of the WA6 amp. However, as you will see later, I couldn’t resist listening to the Princess for very long.

*Woo Audio WA6*
 First of all, I must say that if I had not heard both amps, I would be happy with either one. The quality of construction is superb, and both amps sound wonderful. The packaging is excellent, and gave a great first impression. I love how these amps look and feel, especially that sexy, heavy volume knob. (Can you tell that I am a geek?)

 I found the WA6 to be very balanced and soothing right out of the box. It was relaxing, but there was no "flushed" feeling to the tone like I was expecting from a tube amp. It was very clear and detailed, but still smooth and seductive.

 All of the music that I played on the WA6 sounded realistic and much like I expected. This is a very transparent amp that would be pleasing with good sources and forgiving with lesser sources. It felt comfortable to me, even without burn-in. I didn’t know whether to be happy or unhappy about that. There is less “wow” factor with this amp, but more satisfaction if that makes any sense. There were no apparent weaknesses to the amp. I didn’t come away saying I wish it had more bass, or better mids, or more detail. I could have quit right here, but I didn’t.

*Woo Audio WA6SE*

 I was initially unimpressed with the WA6SE for the difference in price. I got the feeling that the WA6SE tended more toward the "tubey" sound that I didn't sense in the WA6, especially on softer selections like David Gray's "White Ladder" CD. That could be because I listened first and for most of the first few days with the Sovtek rectifier that I did not like very well.

 After a couple of nights of burn-in, I sat down to listen with the Sophia Princess 274B and a set of NOS Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7 driver tubes. My opinion of the WA6SE immediately changed for the better. I could hear a significant improvement in soundstage and dynamic range - whether it was the tubes or 20 hours of burn-in I can’t be sure. But I decided right there that I had to have this amp over the WA6, if for no other reason than it provided significantly more headroom.

 The WA6SE packs a punch. It just screams power. It displayed excellent dynamics and a very deep and tight bass. If you like rock music, and particularly live rock music, this amp should make you very happy. It opened up Lou Reed's "Sweet Jane" and made it sound like I was in the auditorium, without losing the growling bass line and and without distorting the screaming guitar riffs.

 I like Nine Inch Nails, and this amp with the aforementioned tubes made Downward Spiral sound better than I had ever heard it. It handles complex music with ease, and the bass and percussion were rendered with all the mind-numbing force that they deserve.

 U2’s Achtung Baby gave me a good chance to hear how a tube amp really shines. The fine guitar work and creamy vocals on “One” was stunning, and I was equally impressed with the transients on “The Fly” and “Mysterious Ways”. This whole album just cries out to be played on a tube amp with the tonal quality being perfectly suited for the musicality of tubes.

 At the meet, I tried a pair of K701’s with some jazz, and the WA6SE was also very impressive with this music and these phones. The background was black, the soundstage was wide and deep, and the instruments sounded very realistic. In fact, we tried a lot of different phones with this amp, and it drove all of them very well (including K340’s according to Shelly).

 The amp has both high and low impedance jacks as opposed to a switch. I drove my HD600’s and a pair of Denon D2000’s at the same time, and they both sounded just fine. I couldn’t sense any degradation in the sound quality of either phone, but we were at a meet and not a quiet setting.

 I compared these two amps to several others in their respective price ranges at the meet, and I thought the Woo amps held their own very well. The WA6 sounded great next to a Stello HP100, while the WA6SE compared favorably to the Headamp GS-1 and Singlepower Extreme. 

*Tubes*

 I tried all of the tubes that I had in both amps, and I liked almost everything. The stock 5AR4 rectifier and RCA 6DE7’s were a very good selection for the WA6. I tried the Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's with a RCA 1966 NOS 5R4GYB in the WA6SE (a combo recommended by Takezo), and it was a beautiful match with clarity, detail, and a soundstage that rivaled the Sophia tube. This combination sounded great in the WA6 also, as did the 6DE7/5AR4 in the WA6SE.

 The Sophia Princess was outstanding in both amps, as you might expect. The Princess is worth the cost. It is a spectacular tube compared to the other rectifiers that I have (which is admittedly not much). The Sophia Princess with the Sylvania 6EW7’s took the WA6SE to another level. I was very impressed with the soundstage and dynamics of this tube combination in that amp. The Sophia tube also sounded great with the RCA 6DE7's, and you could use either type of drive/power tube without changing the sound for the worse - just different.

 My only complaint with tubes was the stock Sovtek 5U4G, which sounded very bottom-heavy. I'm sure this is a characteristic of this tube and it might improve with burn-in, but it was not initially impressive in the WA6SE. I need to look for an older NOS 5U4G before I draw a conclusion about that tube class; it could be I just don't like the Sovtek. If you buy this amp without buying the Sophia Princess, you might want to pick up a couple of different rectifiers to be able to experiment for yourself.

 I was unable to try a metal base 5AR4 in the amps because I don’t have one and I don't plan to invest $400 in one to find out. I have heard that it makes a great rectifier for rock when combined with the RCA 6DE7’s. I spent my money on the Sophia 274B, so the Princess will have to suffice. I can't envision removing this tube from the amp anyway except when I am using the amp for burn-in purposes. That's what the Sovtek is for.

*Conclusion*

 I decided that the WA6SE was the perfect amp for me at my price range (did I say $1200, well of course I meant $1500 including tubes and the Senn cable upgrade that was made necessary by the purchase of an amp – sorry for my wallet).

 However, if you have more sense than me and want 80% of the performance for 40% of the price, you could go with a stock WA6 and be quite happy. I wanted to avoid the upgrade bug for a few weeks anyway, so I went for that extra 20% improvement.

 I ma not going to comment on the value of a WA6 “maxed with pdps mod” vs. the WA6SE for a similar price, because I have not heard the upgraded WA6. I will speculate that they are similar in performance, and you would probably get a great amp either way. In my case, the WA6SE was in my house and already had 30-40 hours of burn-in, as opposed to a 3-4 week wait for a WA6 maxed plus the longer burn-in for the upgraded parts, so it was a pretty easy call.


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## musicmind

Thanks for writing up your impressions Orcin, just the review I was looking for. Very useful 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can definitely recommend trying a good NOS 5u4g, it is my favourite tube with the WA6 at the moment and better than the stock Sovtek. 

 Did you try the 274B in the WA6 as well? Did you find the amp to improve with this recitifier as much as the WA6SE did?

 Thanks again


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## wfranklin

Thanks for the fine review.


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## EnOYiN

Very nice review. Thanks. 

 I have the stock version of the WA6 myself and although I know there are better amps out there I think that it has tremendous value.


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## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you try the 274B in the WA6 as well? Did you find the amp to improve with this recitifier as much as the WA6SE did?_

 

Yes and yes, although I admit I was pretty smitten by the Princess by that time, so maybe it was just a placebo crush.


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## musicmind

Thanks Orcin, with most of the 274B users having either the PSU modded or SE version, its great to confirm that the stock WA6 also improves comparably with the 274B.


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## jamato8

There should be no reason the stock 6 would not improve. The impact of the choice of rectifier on the power supply in the 6 would be very substantial. What I would like to see is a comparison of the 6 with the pseudo dual power supply and the SE. 

 Fine review.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Nice Review!


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## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There should be no reason the stock 6 would not improve. The impact of the choice of rectifier on the power supply in the 6 would be very substantial. What I would like to see is a comparison of the 6 with the pseudo dual power supply and the SE. 

 Fine review._

 

Thanks, John. And thanks to you too, Larry! It was really nice of you to send the GES to us. It was pretty great to hear that against pabbi1's Blue Hawaii and Marc's hot-rodded KGSS. 


 Yes John, I would love to have reviewed the pdps modded WA6 against the stock WA6SE. However, I don't think Jack really wanted me to do that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For one thing, I didn't give him much time to get two amps ready to send out (with no revenue attached to them), especially if he needed to mod one of them. Plus, the meet was a good chance for him to show his line of products, and as you know Woo Audio does not advertise the mod for the WA6.

 So for good commercial reasons, I think he wanted the WA6 to be there, without the mod. If we had demo'ed a modded unit, then everyone would be asking the effect of the mod and how much is the mod, and what does it sound like without the mod, instead of just saying "wow this is a great amp".

 I also understand you and Takezo when you say that the mod ought to be part of the product. I am not going to try to tell Jack how to run his business, but I think Jack has a price point and a margin that he wants to maintain. That's fair to me, but you have a valid point too. I'm not trying to pass judgement on that here, because that has been discussed a lot in your thread already.

 I'm really trying to give people an opinion on the two stock amps. I think the fact that the mod exists and has been so well-received is making some people think that you shouldn't buy these amps without the mods and/or upgraded parts packages. And that's wrong too, because they are exceptional amps at their respective price points without the upgrades.


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## jamato8

I understand, to a degree but frankly the modification really "isn't" a modification to any extent. It is a simple power supply change that would add maybe 15 or 20 dollars in parts. It is a totally practical and logical step but I believe it puts the 6 on the same par as the SE so there may lie the problem. 

 It is great that people can get into a very sound and solid amp and truly "enjoy" the music. That is what I am doing right now even as I am typing! :^)


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, John. And thanks to you too, Larry! It was really nice of you to send the GES to us. It was pretty great to hear that against pabbi1's Blue Hawaii and Marc's hot-rodded KGSS. _

 

It's Cool! I would love it if you could post something somewhere (or link me to it) about the Woo GES Prototype that I sent you. As you might know, I got the GES back in July and then I bought it from Jack after demoing it, like you did with the WA6SE. But then a week after the July Head-fi meet in Colorado I decided to order a new GES maxed (with pro/normal bias jacks and RCA loop out) and Jack agreed to apply my payment to the new amp when I returned the old one (or shipped it to the next reviewer).

 I got to compare the prototype with the maxed GES for the first 150 hours of burn-in, and even before full burn-in the maxed was more transparent and open. Now with 280 hours on the maxed it is even better. Even though it takes 250-500 hours to burn-in, I have stopped running it for long periods to force burn-in faster. It just sounds good enough already.

 Unlike the GES, my Maxed WA6 took over 600 hours of burn-in before I thought it sounded great, and I did the PDPS mod at about that time (May). It took another 200-300 hours after that for it to settle down and really shine, but it was still lacking something with my Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 or Philips metal base GZ34. So I added the Sophia Princess at that point, and it was just as huge of a leap or bigger as when I did the PDPS. Blutarsky agrees with me that the Sophia completely transformed the amp.


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_T...What I would like to see is a comparison of the 6 with the pseudo dual power supply and the SE. _

 

i have both now and while i'm not ready to submit any form of review, i have
 to admit the SE has much more juice... leading to a sense of larger soundstage
 and deeper bass... no other amp i've had reaches as low as the SE... the
 sub bass is quite impressive... deep but taut/springy and no muddying the mids
 and highs. my SE is a stock, as i will, no doubt, do some of my own upgrades
 later... much later. the stock is impressive enough but there's something
 smoother and tonally more pleasing about the highly modded wa6 that the
 SE doesn't share. i think it may be the blackgates...

 i sent my SE in to jack for the recent mod and what i see is that the first cap
 after the inductor is now a 10uF cap:


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## atbglenn

Was that little circuit board added as part of the mod, or was it there already. Looks like a time delay relay circuit for soft start possibly?


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## takezo

no the relay delay circuit was put in as part of this last mod by
 wooaudio. it's similar to what they do with the wa5 power supply...

 btw, the EML and the Princess sound exquisite on the SE... no flash
 or oddities on start up. whereas my other rectifiers sound very fine,
 the 274b has the best micro resolution of them all... the tiniest morsel
 of sound is presented without the slightest hint of strain nor digitalis...


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i have both now and while i'm not ready to submit any form of review, i have
 to admit the SE has much more juice... leading to a sense of larger soundstage
 and deeper bass... no other amp i've had reaches as low as the SE... the
 sub bass is quite impressive... deep but taut/springy and no muddying the mids
 and highs. my SE is a stock, as i will, no doubt, do some of my own upgrades
 later... much later. the stock is impressive enough but there's something
 smoother and tonally more pleasing about the highly modded wa6 that the
 SE doesn't share. i think it may be the blackgates...

 i sent my SE in to jack for the recent mod and what i see is that the first cap
 after the inductor is now a 10uF cap:_

 

Great! I look forward to more information. It is good to know that in certain ways you feel it is a step up. What types of caps are used in the SE? Any shots of the other chassis? A great cap to use in the power supply and very, very reasonable is the Panasonic TSED you can buy from Digikey. They are as good or better than they polar BG's and a fraction of the price.


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## takezo

the caps are 330uf/450v cdm caps with additional rubycon caps in smaller
 capacities. wooaudio put in what looks like an additional filter stage, not sure
 though since the voltage is only 16v, in the front section, as can be seen in
 the second smaller pic...


 here's some additional internal pics:


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## atbglenn

Interesting. What are the purpose of the solid state rectifiers? DC for the 6de7 filaments?


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. What are the purpose of the solid state rectifiers?_

 

solid state rectifiers?


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_solid state rectifiers?_

 

 bridge rectifiers possibly used to supply DC to the 6de7 filaments?


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## takezo

hey john, how much of a factor does the resistor make between
 the 2nd and 6th pin of the output tube? will a mills be preferred
 over the vishay resistor wooaudio seems to be using?


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bridge rectifiers possibly used to supply DC to the 6de7 filaments?_

 

unless i'm very mistaken, there isn't any solid state rectifier in the pics...


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## tommytomickey




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## jamato8

They have gone dc on the heaters, which is what I did on the Woo 3. Some feel AC on the heaters is more dynamic but there are varying beliefs on that. I went DC even on my old balloon tube 27's. They can be quieter that way.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey john, how much of a factor does the resistor make between
 the 2nd and 6th pin of the output tube? will a mills be preferred
 over the vishay resistor wooaudio seems to be using?_

 

You want a very fine resistor there as the signal is going through it. A good carbon or an older tantalum, before they went to magnetic ends. Even on the 60,000 Audio Note dac they use good carbons so that is what I would use and do use now. I have some of the good tants but they are in storage but to be honest a Kiwame or Riken Ohm would be very fine. I am not crazy about metal film but there are a few good ones.


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## atbglenn

ok so woo is using solid state rectification to supply the 6de7 filaments.


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## takezo

ok guys, point it out to me... lol


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok guys, point it out to me... lol_

 

Those filter caps at the rear are soldered to the DC side of the 2 rectifiers. (the square thingys)


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok guys, point it out to me... lol_

 

See the two square devices with a cap soldered to them and they have a allen headed screw to hold them in place? those are bridge rectifiers.


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## takezo

ahh... thanks for the education atbglenn and john. i thought that was an
 extra filter stage...LOL


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## atbglenn

And I learned something too, they're devices, not thingys. LOL


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## jamato8

Oh thingys works in the right circle. That thingy there, the one with four do-dads and a thing-a-bajobber with two legs welded to it.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tommytomickey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




_

 

STOP POST WHORING TO BUMP YOUR POST COUNT!


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_STOP POST WHORING TO BUMP YOUR POST COUNT!_

 

I am sorry I can't help myself. 

 Ok, it's the other guy. So I guess he is doing it so he can sell on the FS site?

 So there are some other changes to the SE. It has DC to the filaments, more filtering, directly coupled sections, a delay on circuit, different output transformers, and a few other things. 

 Can someone measure the voltage on the tubes?


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh thingys works in the right circle. That thingy there, the one with four do-dads and a thing-a-bajobber with two legs welded to it._

 

John, what about that dang deal over there? The one next to the thing-a-bajobber?

 Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict

 STOP POST WHORING TO BUMP YOUR POST COUNT!

 Sorry about that.


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## xenithon

Thanks for the impressions - confirmed I suspected: that, although the benefit of the SE is incremental, it is non-insignificant.


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## jamato8

The SE has the room for a battery bias for the tubes. That would be sweet. Also the resistor between pins should be of highest quality as it will affect the sound. The metal films often have a slightly high frequency whitish sound and isn't noticed until compared to something like a good carbon or tantalum (no longer available). Also the cathode bias cap is 220uf. I find that a 470uf gives a little better bass at sometimes, a slight decrease in mids but not always. I use a 470uf on my 6 for the bypass. Also the cathode bypass resistor is important and again I would use a carbon or go battery bias and do away with the resistor and cap.


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## HeadphoneAddict

you guys know I quoted "tommytomickey" with that "post whore" comment. He's been posting smileys all over freaking head-fi to bump his post count - then he got tired of that and told everyone in the full size headphone forum to look for his eBay auction for ATH-ESW9.


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am sorry I can't help myself. 

 Ok, it's the other guy. So I guess he is doing it so he can sell on the FS site?

 So there are some other changes to the SE. It has DC to the filaments, more filtering, directly coupled sections, a delay on circuit, different output transformers, and a few other things. 

 Can someone measure the voltage on the tubes?_

 

john, i'm getting 205v from pin one and 62v at pin six.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you guys know I quoted "tommytomickey" with that "post whore" comment. He's been posting smileys all over freaking head-fi to bump his post count - then he got tired of that and told everyone in the full size headphone forum to look for his eBay auction for ATH-ESW9._

 

Is there a way to ban him from this forum?


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_john, i'm getting 205v from pin one and 62v at pin six._

 

How does that voltage compare to the standard 6? I haven't measured mine


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...The metal films often have a slightly high frequency whitish sound and isn't noticed until compared to something like a good carbon or tantalum (no longer available). Also the cathode bias cap is 220uf. I find that a 470uf gives a little better bass at sometimes, a slight decrease in mids but not always. I use a 470uf on my 6 for the bypass. Also the cathode bypass resistor is important and again I would use a carbon or go battery bias and do away with the resistor and cap._

 

hey john, i noticed partsconnection having a resistor called shinkoh-tantalum
 along with the newer tantalums. are these the original japanese tantalum?


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does that voltage compare to the standard 6? I haven't measured mine_

 

last i checked, it was 178v and 64v.


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## jamato8

Yeah that is what I thought. More voltage on the plate of the power section. The plate of the driver section is about the same but the second section is getting more voltage and putting out more power. They increased it about 25 volts. I know I mentioned some time back that the tube could be run at much higher voltages, which will give it more power. Well good. 

 What do you measure on DC for pin 4 and 5?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey john, i noticed partsconnection having a resistor called shinkoh-tantalum
 along with the newer tantalums. are these the original japanese tantalum?_

 

Yes, buy some for me! :^) I will have to go look but have to read the resistor between the pins to know the value or take the tube out and measure the resistance.


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## atbglenn

John,

 Since the standard 6 supplies less voltage to the plate, should the tube last longer then?


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## takezo

the resistor is brown brown black black brown or 110 ohms...
 i'll check the other values at another time...it's a pain to work with
 the umbilical cord restricting the movement.

 *correction: the resistor is brn blk blk brn brn or 1K ohms... makes more sense.


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## jamato8

Oh maybe some but not enough to matter in my opinion. The 6DE7 is inexpensive, there are many around and it should last a long time anyway. I would have to measure the actual current draw to see what it is operating at but I would go for the higher power. I think the resistor between the pins needs to be of the highest quality. 

 The tants from Japan are only the 1/2 watt. I would prefer the 2 watt for sound. The 1/2 watt would work but bigger wattage resistors just sound better. Even Audio Note UK will use 2 watt resistors in critical places where even a 1/8 or 1/4 watt would work. I started using large resistors years ago.


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John,

 Since the standard 6 supplies less voltage to the plate, should the tube last longer then?_

 

i believe the max dc voltage to the plate for the 6de7 is 275v... still well within
 the spec of the tube... the max for the 6ew7 is 330v.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the resistor is brown brown black black brown or 110 ohms...
 i'll check the other values at another time...it's a pain to work with
 the umbilical cord restricting the movement._

 

Sure, thanks a lot for checking.


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## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh maybe some but not enough to matter in my opinion. The 6DE7 is inexpensive, there are many around and it should last a long time anyway. I would have to measure the actual current draw to see what it is operating at but I would go for the higher power. I think the resistor between the pins needs to be of the highest quality. 

 The tants from Japan are only the 1/2 watt. I would prefer the 2 watt for sound. The 1/2 watt would work but bigger wattage resistors just sound better. Even Audio Note UK will use 2 watt resistors in critical places where even a 1/8 or 1/4 watt would work. I started using large resistors years ago._

 

john, aren't the larger, higher watt capacity resistors more inductive also?


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_john, aren't the larger, higher watt capacity resistors more inductive also?_

 

There are wire wound resistors that are inductive, which in a power supply isn't a bad thing. There are the Mills that are done in such a way that they cancel and are non-inductive and then there are tants and carbon that are not inductive. Being larger doesn't make them inductive as tants and carbon aren't inductive.


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## takezo

thanks for the explanation.


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## jamato8

I should add that there is inductance to be found in even the carbon and tants and in the "non" inductive special resistors like the Mills but it is so low that they are considered non inductive for all practical purposes. Inductance resists AC but not pure DC so an inductor resistor in the power supply can do some good in reducing ripple. But they can also add "sound" because they can add a certain overlaying frequency to the DC. This is why the Mills is often used as it does an excellent job of dropping voltage but does little to add anything to the DC.


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## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks for the explanation._

 

So where are the images of your amp?


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## Gollie

Orcin, very good write up. Although, I did not get much time with the amp, I did think it had a very good sound. Definitely worthy of your praise.


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## xenithon

A question still burning in my mind though, is how the WA2 would compare to the WA6 SE (for headphones use, excluding preamp functionality)?

 Based on the toppologies, I would assume the WA2 has more of a warm, smooth, flowing midrange; the WA6 SE having more punch and dynamics. I believe both would handle all cans well - both high and low impedance (in particular after the change to the EZ80 in the WA2).

 Has anyone heard these two, either together (e.g., at a meet) or on separate occassions?


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## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gollie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Orcin, very good right up. Although, I did not get much time with the amp, I did think it had a very good sound. Definitely worthy of your praise._

 

Thanks. I am now enjoying the information flow while John, takezo, and atbglenn dissect takezo's WA6SE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am learning a lot about the design of the amp, and it's all free!








 By the way... takezo, where did you get that WA6SE? Did you buy it or borrow it? If the latter, does the owner know what you are about to do to it?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I am now enjoying the information flow while John, takezo, and atbglenn dissect takezo's WA6SE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am learning a lot about the design of the amp, and it's all free!_

 

Free? who said anything about free? we just haven't sent you a bill yet


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Free? who said anything about free? we just haven't sent you a bill yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Plus the future *up*grades to your WA6SE


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jantze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Plus the future ungrades to your WA6SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If we ungrade, shouldn't we get some money back? ok ok! I'm a wiseguy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Like I never make typos! LOL


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If we ungrade, shouldn't we get some money back? ok ok! I'm a wiseguy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Like I never make typos! LOL_


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So where are the images of your amp?_

 


 here's a few. i should point out wooaudio has fixed the problem of the screws getting
 in the way of the fat bottle 6ew7. they cut the screw tip shorter:


----------



## atbglenn

I'm jealous. Very nice!


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A question still burning in my mind though, is how the WA2 would compare to the WA6 SE (for headphones use, excluding preamp functionality)?

 Based on the toppologies, I would assume the WA2 has more of a warm, smooth, flowing midrange; the WA6 SE having more punch and dynamics. I believe both would handle all cans well - both high and low impedance (in particular after the change to the EZ80 in the WA2).

 Has anyone heard these two, either together (e.g., at a meet) or on separate occassions?_

 

this is just a guess, from my experience with another OTL amp the mpx3 slam se,
 but the wa6 and SE have a forward mid relative to the mpx3 which is more
 recessed, giving the impression of a more laid-back presentation with a deeper
 soundstage...


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I am now enjoying the information flow while John, takezo, and atbglenn dissect takezo's WA6SE. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am learning a lot about the design of the amp, and it's all free!








 By the way... takezo, where did you get that WA6SE? Did you buy it or borrow it? If the latter, does the owner know what you are about to do to it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

free... at the risk of receiving mis-information... from me, that is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i got it directly from jack woo... hope he hasn't noticed one missing...


----------



## jamato8

Yes a more recessed mid can and does give the impression of a deeper soundstage. 

 Has anyone thought about inductor loading the front end section rather than resistor loading it? This is something I have done for a long time and never go back to the resistor loading.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_free... at the risk of receiving mis-information... from me, that is...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 i got it directly from jack woo... hope he hasn't noticed one missing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

So what do you like more, the 6EW7 or the 6DE7? How many hours are now on the 6SE?


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 this is just a guess, from my experience with another OTL amp the mpx3 slam se, but the wa6 and SE have a forward mid relative to the mpx3 which is more recessed, giving the impression of a more laid-back presentation with a deeper
 soundstage... 
 

Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if the 2 may lack dynamics, which the 6 SE apparently has in spades.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what do you like more, the 6EW7 or the 6DE7? How many hours are now on the 6SE?_

 

i've about 200+ hrs on the 6SE... i like both... it seems to be easier to differentiate
 between the two output tubes on the SE... correction, when it came back from the
 latest mod from wooaudio, it had many new caps so i may be at hour 10+ now...

 btw, something's happening to the modded wa6 in a good way. i'm at approx.
 1200+ hrs. on the unit and the sound seems to have opened up even more now.
 i've noticed it just a few days ago but the music i'm getting is better than it's
 ever sounded... i really hope it stays like this for a long time...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if the 2 may lack dynamics, which the 6 SE apparently has in spades._

 

i wouldn't think the wa2 "lack" dynamics on its own... only relative to the SE
 most probably... jack seems to prefer the wa2 over the 6 SE... and it's
 relatively cheaper too.


----------



## jamato8

If you inductor load the 1 section of each tube I think you will be surprised.


----------



## Orcin

The drive/power tubes on the WA6SE are self-biased. Does this have any effect on the need to match tubes? Does it eliminate the need?

 I have two Sylvania fat bottle 6ew7's that don't appear to be the same year because they have different logos. I don't know if they are matched but they sound fine together. Am I missing something by using these?


----------



## jamato8

The amp doesn't need matched tubes but I always like to have the same construction. I guess you don't mean electrically matched but physically. I prefer physically and manufacture matching but it isn't going to hurt anything if you don't.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you inductor load the 1 section of each tube I think you will be surprised._

 

okay, i'll bite... please explain. the SE has so much space available in the front
 section that putting two fairly large sized inductors wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Orcin

So then mixing two different brands of 6ew7 would work, but mixing a 6de7 with a 6ew7 would not work?

 I agree that it looks a lot better and gives more satisfaction to see physically matched tubes. I am just wondering if there are any effects on the sound from a unmatched electrical pair from the same manufacturer. (I think you said no.)


----------



## jamato8

They aren't large. The first section of the tube has a dropping resistor to the plate for the 62 volts. Instead of having the plate directly getting its energy from a resistor you put in a 150 henry or larger (hammond has a 150 henery 8mA I have used many time at 3300 ohms) and the tube now has an inductor supplying it which gives better dynamic, a cleaner sound and better transparency. The inductor give a type of current supply that is in a way, constant because as the field around the inductor collapses it continues to deliver. The inductor give a good source of current, the cap is for voltage. I do not like to resistor load tubes if I have a choice.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So then mixing two different brands of 6ew7 would work, but mixing a 6de7 with a 6ew7 would not work?

 I agree that it looks a lot better and gives more satisfaction to see physically matched tubes. I am just wondering if there are any effects on the sound from a unmatched electrical pair from the same manufacturer. (I think you said no.)_

 

No I would not mix a 6ew7 and a 6de7. It isn't going to hurt anything but the tubes operate at different points and sound different.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They aren't large. The first section of the tube has a dropping resistor to the plate for the 62 volts. Instead of having the plate directly getting its energy from a resistor you put in a 150 henry or larger (hammond has a 150 henery 8mA I have used many time at 3300 ohms) and the tube now has an inductor supplying it which gives better dynamic, a cleaner sound and better transparency. The inductor give a type of current supply that is in a way, constant because as the field around the inductor collapses it continues to deliver. The inductor give a good source of current, the cap is for voltage. I do not like to resistor load tubes if I have a choice._

 

how small are they? 150 henry seems like a huge number...


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how small are they? 150 henry seems like a huge number..._

 

Henry is the inductance but it is the mA's that will make an inductor large or small. At 8mA's the wire is very small because the current is small so the inductor is about half the size of the one you are looking at in the 6 SE.

 I have noticed some changes in the sound of my 6 lately. Even more transparent and open. I like and don't like Black Gates. They take too long to form, which is why some people don't like them. Not that it matters much any longer since they are no longer made. 

 The Panasonic TSED series is excellent and is the way to go from now on. They cost around 5 to 6 dollars and are very fine in the power supply.


----------



## Orcin

I have found that the drive/power tubes do have a nice infuence on the sound. The 6de7's have more attack and synergize better with the detailed Bendix tubes in my DAC. The 6ew7's have more decay and a wider, deeper soundstage, and they seem to compliment the WE396A in the Paradisea which exhibits these same traits. In both cases, this is with the Sophia rectifier. (I don't see any reason to roll something else into the rectifier socket - it's that good!)

 This is almost like having two different systems to synergize with headphone choices or music genres. I find I prefer the 6ew7 sound and I would choose it if I was forced to pick one combination for all situations. Fortunately, I am not restricted and I can roll these various tubes for the variety. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I suspect that one could find rectifiers to support these two different signatures if a Sophia 274B was out of the price range. I know that the 5R4GYB works very well with the 6ew7's for a wide soundstage and smooth sound. I think that the 5U4G or 5AR4 might be the best match for the 6de7's, but I haven't gotten to experimenting with those yet.


----------



## sclamb

I find the GE 6EW7 with the Mullard GZ30 brown base is an excellent match and close to the 274B performance.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, at a Colorado head-fi mini-meet today (well, Saturday) I heard what I believe was a stock WA6 with stock tubes, and it sounded very good. The differences between that one and my Maxed with PDPSU and Sophia Princess were small enough to be due to the Sophia alone. Blutarsky and I were both "snow blind in the ears" by the time that comparison rolled by, and so fatigued that everything was starting to sound the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Luminette had more stamina and could more easily hear the differences that late in the game, and plans to buy a Sophia as soon as money grows on trees...


----------



## Orcin

I have played with several different tube combinations over the past couple of weeks. I think the choice of power tubes makes a little more difference than I originally thought.

 I start with the Sophia Princess in the rectifier slot. This provides a lot of detail and soundstage for either choice of power tube.

 If I roll in the 6de7's, the sound is almost solid-state in presentation. The emphahsis is on dynamics, impact, good solid bass, and less air around the notes. With 6ew7's, the amp becomes more tube-oriented. The seductive warmth is there, along with better imaging and more decay, but a bit less impact. I am using Sylvania NOS power tubes in both of these cases.

 It almost like having two amps in one. These differences are less apparent to me with other rectifier tubes. Perhaps that is because the rectifier tube choice is impacting the sound in ways that I am not accustomed to and can't describe properly yet.

 As I comment about these things, I must say that I am not covering new ground here. These impressions are no different from what jamato8, takezo, and HeadphoneAddict (among others) have said before about these tubes, but it is new and interesting for me to travel down this same path.

 However, the different thing is the realization that the Sophia 274B combined with the Sylvania 6de7's provide a sound that is very similar to what I remember from hearing a quality solid-state amp like the GS-1. Perhaps I am imagining this similarity, but there is no doubt that the amp has more impact and less warmth with this tube combination.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, at a Colorado head-fi mini-meet today (well, Saturday) I heard what I believe was a stock WA6 with stock tubes, and it sounded very good. The differences between that one and my Maxed with PDPSU and Sophia Princess were small enough to be due to the Sophia alone. Blutarsky and I were both "snow blind in the ears" by the time that comparison rolled by, and so fatigued that everything was starting to sound the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Luminette had more stamina and could more easily hear the differences that late in the game, and plans to buy a Sophia as soon as money grows on trees..._

 

I can understand tired ears. The sound to me though is very, very different. I enjoyed the 6 but wasn't excited by it. The sound wasn't as dimensional and alive as I had hoped. With the power supply modification I heard the same thing that I have heard in other equipment that I have changed to this architecture. A better articulation of details, better control of dynamics and a more plausible nuanced bass. I also notice more depth and space. 

 Another very good capacitor and as good or better than the polar Black Gates is the Panasonic TSED series. They are great with ripple and have a nice low ESR.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have played with several different tube combinations over the past couple of weeks. I think the choice of power tubes makes a little more difference than I originally thought.

 I start with the Sophia Princess in the rectifier slot. This provides a lot of detail and soundstage for either choice of power tube.

 If I roll in the 6de7's, the sound is almost solid-state in presentation. The emphahsis is on dynamics, impact, good solid bass, and less air around the notes. With 6ew7's, the amp becomes more tube-oriented. The seductive warmth is there, along with better imaging and more decay, but a bit less impact. I am using Sylvania NOS power tubes in both of these cases.

 It almost like having two amps in one. These differences are less apparent to me with other rectifier tubes. Perhaps that is because the rectifier tube choice is impacting the sound in ways that I am not accustomed to and can't describe properly yet.

 As I comment about these things, I must say that I am not covering new ground here. These impressions are no different from what jamato8, takezo, and HeadphoneAddict (among others) have said before about these tubes, but it is new and interesting for me to travel down this same path.

 However, the different thing is the realization that the Sophia 274B combined with the Sylvania 6de7's provide a sound that is very similar to what I remember from hearing a quality solid-state amp like the GS-1. Perhaps I am imagining this similarity, but there is no doubt that the amp has more impact and less warmth with this tube combination._

 

The Sylvania 6DE7 are not as tubey as the RCA 6DE7 - I have both and started with the Sylvania and changed to the RCA on Jamato8's recommendation a while back.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Sylvania 6DE7 are not as tubey as the RCA 6DE7 - I have both and started with the Sylvania and changed to the RCA on Jamato8's recommendation a while back._

 


 I have a pair of the RCA's from Jack that I put away early after moving to the 6EW7's. I am going to try those again tonight. It's been a while since I listened to them, and the amp & Sophia are both over 100 hours now. Things have probably changed with my setup. Lots of stuff is burning in at the same time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jam says to get older ones, but I can't figure out how to tell the dates. There doesn't appear to be a date code on the RCA's.


----------



## EtherealApril

Orcin, thanks for posting your impressions here. I've been trying to decide between the WA6 and WA6SE and I think your comparison has pushed me in the direction of the SE. Unfortunately, I'm not really able to audition anything where I am but I've now got a bit of a feel for the differences between the amps. The wallet's not looking forward to this...


----------



## jamato8

Go for the gusto. Enjoy those notes floating in and around your head. Escape to the land of audio nirvana and levitate your inner spirit realizing that those dollars are only a vehicle and you are on a journey. 



 Or not.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EtherealApril* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Orcin, thanks for posting your impressions here. I've been trying to decide between the WA6 and WA6SE and I think your comparison has pushed me in the direction of the SE. Unfortunately, I'm not really able to audition anything where I am but I've now got a bit of a feel for the differences between the amps. The wallet's not looking forward to this..._

 

Sorry for your wallet, but I know you will enjoy this amp when you get it. It will be a great match for your phones. If you are not going to buy the Sophia Princess, you should at least get a few NOS tubes to roll in place of the stock tubes. Discovering the various sound changes from tube rolling is a lot of fun, and multiple tube choices for each slot will give you some options to synergize with your two different phones.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a pair of the RCA's from Jack that I put away early after moving to the 6EW7's. I am going to try those again tonight._

 


 @Larry: Well, the Sylvania 6DE7's absolutely trounced the RCA's. Actually, the RCA's did not sound very good at all, so I am convinced that my RCA's must be bad. I ordered another pair of NOS RCA's last night, and I will try this again when they arrive.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_




 @Larry: Well, the Sylvania 6DE7's absolutely trounced the RCA's. Actually, the RCA's did not sound very good at all, so I am convinced that my RCA's must be bad. I ordered another pair of NOS RCA's last night, and I will try this again when they arrive._

 

not necessarily... some genuine NOS tubes need burn-in to sound decent.
 10-20 hrs ought to loosen them up so i'd encourage you to try them out again
 later.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not necessarily... some genuine NOS tubes need burn-in to sound decent.
 10-20 hrs ought to loosen them up so i'd encourage you to try them out again
 later._

 



 These RCA's have 50+ hours on them, so they should have softened up by now. They sound harsh and muddy.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These RCA's have 50+ hours on them, so they should have softened up by now. They sound harsh and muddy._

 

Strange. Have you had them tested? I have never heard that from the RCA's and I use them all the time. I have Sylvania and other brands but hands down prefer the RCA with the shield between the sections.


----------



## atbglenn

Even when these RCA's were new, they didn't sound harsh or muddy. Are yours the same as these? Note the shield between the plates. I hear some don't have them. I'm not sure that makes a difference though.


----------



## monsieurguzel

Nobody seems to mention the GE branded ones that come with the tube in the first place. How do those compare to the RCA and Sylvania branded 6de7 and 6ew7? Does it make sense to change brands within the same type of tube?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even when these RCA's were new, they didn't sound harsh or muddy. Are yours the same as these? Note the shield between the plates. I hear some don't have them. I'm not sure that makes a difference though.




_

 

Without the shield the tube, to my ear, is not as dynamic and there isn't the transparency I hear with the tube that has the shield.


----------



## Orcin

Hmm... mine have the shield. I'll see if I can get them tested. I don't have a tester, unfortunately.

 Edit: I just let them warm up for 2 hours, and listened again. They were much better than I thought earlier. I no longer think they are defective. I just must have listened when I was too tired or they were not yet warmed up.

 I still liked the Sylvania's better though. I'll see what this next set of RCA's sound like.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *monsieurguzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nobody seems to mention the GE branded ones that come with the tube in the first place. How do those compare to the RCA and Sylvania branded 6de7 and 6ew7? Does it make sense to change brands within the same type of tube?_

 


 I tried my GE 6EW7's last night for an extended period of time, and I thought they were just as good as the Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's. I think they would be interchangeable.

 More experienced tube rollers have said that tubes vary, and you might try two pair of the same thing and like one pair better. The good news is that the power tubes for this amp are pretty cheap, so you can pick up a few different pairs to see for yourself. The thin 6EW7's might be worth a try, as well as the 6DE7's.

 On another note, is there any rectifier that is better than the Sophia Princess 274B? I might spend a few bucks on something if it had an advantage, but I can't see the point in buying any more inferior tubes. The Sophia is just so good that I keep rolling it back in everytime I get serious. Variety is nice, but the Sophia just seems to do everything well.

 What about the metal base 5AR4's? Are they equal to or better than the Sophia for impact and/or deep bass?


----------



## sclamb

I have found the Mullard GZ30 brown base to be as good if not better in the bass department as the 274B and at around 20 USD a good deal too! Just slightly less airy but still a good tube.


----------



## sclamb

Woohoo!!! Just had word from Jack that my maxed WA6 SE is coming back after having had the tube protection circuit modification to support the 274B. He also trimmed down the tube socket screws to let the tubes sit more securely. He also said they enhanced the power supply to allow lower background noises, which would improve focus of music. I have asked what that power supply mod was as I was not aware that there was any backgound noise as the amp sounded dead silent.


----------



## atbglenn

Sclamb,

 Great news! When did you send the amp back?

 Glenn


----------



## sclamb

I sent it on the 27th November, so not a bad turnaround really given that it did not arrive in NY until the 31st. It will be shipped back on Wednesday this week so hopefully I will get it back early next week.


----------



## atbglenn

Woo Audio really takes care of their customers. Unlike some unnamed high end manufactures


----------



## sclamb

I agree!! Being in the UK I took a gamble, and unfortunately because of the 274B issue I had to send the amp back which was the worst case scenario in that gamble (it cost me 200 USD as UK postage is not cheap!).

 However, Jack has turned it around quickly which is great. Of course, I have to wait until I get it back to make sure all is good, but so far the service has been exepmplary.


----------



## atbglenn

Unfortunately when you buy something overseas you take a risk no matter how good the product. $200 yikes! that's a lot of money. Fortunately for me, Woo is about 20 miles from me. It's cost me around $10 to ship my 6 for the PS mod.


----------



## sclamb

Had an email from Jack about the power supply mod. He said the PS enhancement is a better way to make background noise lower and darker. Most headphones would not display such low level hum but it would help to make sound cleaner.

 I have to say that my amp was black as black in terms of silence, so I probably won't hear any difference. So, still none the wiser about what the mod is but I can't wait to get my amp back


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Had an email from Jack about the power supply mod. He said the PS enhancement is a better way to make background noise lower and darker. Most headphones would not display such low level hum but it would help to make sound cleaner.

 I have to say that my amp was black as black in terms of silence, so I probably won't hear any difference. So, still none the wiser about what the mod is but I can't wait to get my amp back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I can't imagine the Woo being any quieter than it already is. Unless of course you have super human hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh BTW, I just won a pair of NOS Sylvania 5U4GB made in 1955 for $12. Hopefully they'll sound good.


----------



## sclamb

I know, the WA6 is dead silent anyway. Perhaps Jack uses equipment to test the noise and had found a way to reduce whatever reading, audible or otherwise, that he was getting.

 You should really try the Mullard GZ30 brown base too. I got mine from eBay for 20 USD.


----------



## atbglenn

I found a few. Are these the ones you're talking about?
 Item# 5794361295

 * GZ30 (CV2748) MULLARD RECTIFIER VALVE
 * Printed CV2748 KB/DA
 * No Mullard logo
 * Military boxed


----------



## sclamb

That's the one.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't imagine the Woo being any quieter than it already is. Unless of course you have super human hearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh BTW, I just won a pair of NOS Sylvania 5U4GB made in 1955 for $12. Hopefully they'll sound good.




_

 

I have one of those - listened to it a long time ago. It was not bad, although I think my RCA 5U4G was a little better.


----------



## takezo

those of you with the SE... try the rca 5v4g... it may surprise you.
 it's on par with the gz30.


----------



## Orcin

That's a "v" as in (rca) victor, not 5u4g?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_those of you with the SE... try the rca 5v4g... it may surprise you.
 it's on par with the gz30._

 

 I've been using the RCA 5V4 (as pictured in my avatar) for the last couple of months. I think they're great.


----------



## takezo

this is the RCA 5V4G military version:







 the 5u4g are okay but has flabby bass and not such great control and focus as
 the 5V4G... and on top of that, 5V4G has a bloomy/tubey mid that's gorgeous... and
 it can be had NOS for $15 to $30 each... the latter 5V4GA is not as transparent
 and controlled at the highs and bottom.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is the RCA 5V4G military version:




_

 

I have the RCA NON military version. Still good in your opinion?


----------



## takezo

military and non-military 5v4g are the same tubes... the former is
 screened for reliability factor, i believe. the pic shows the earlier
 40-60's version with the larger plates in parallel position... the
 later one has narrow plates lined up end to end. both sound very
 fine.


----------



## atbglenn

This is the RCA 5V4 I have


----------



## jamato8

I have one of those. I wasn't crazy about the sound, a little bright but I haven't tried it since I redid the power supply so. . . . have just fired it up.


----------



## atbglenn

John, it is brighter than my other rectifiers, but I like it. Works well with my HD650's


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_John, it is brighter than my other rectifiers, but I like it. Works well with my HD650's_

 

Well the 650's can use a bit of a lift so I agree with you that it might be right for them.


----------



## atbglenn

Maybe the 5V4's are the reason I cant listen to my Sony V6's. Way too bright.


----------



## takezo

the 5V4G is very good on the wa6 modified, but a different tube on the SE...
 it's extremely well focused, transparent and the bass is deeeep with control...
 the higher voltage must be the x-factor.

 the one in your pic is the earlier type with larger plates in parallel... it's the
 one i prefer.


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, I am still getting the slightly hard edge as before but I use my Ed. 9's all the time. I like the big ole EML or the Princess in there. The old Philco/Sylvania 5U4GB is still a nice tube to use also (4 hole on the inside of the plates where they are joined and 6 on the outside).


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 5V4G is very good on the wa6 modified, but a different tube on the SE...
 it's extremely well focused, transparent and the bass is deeeep with control...
 the higher voltage must be the x-factor.

 the one in your pic is the earlier type with larger plates in parallel... it's the
 one i prefer._

 

Could be as operating points is what it is all about.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I am still getting the slightly hard edge as before but I use my Ed. 9's all the time. I like the big ole EML or the Princess in there. The old Philco/Sylvania 5U4GB is still a nice tube to use also (4 hole on the inside of the plates where they are joined and 6 on the outside)._

 

synergy... i believe in it... i haven't tried the 5V4G with the gs1000 or the denon
 d5000... only the senns and 701... there's no doubt the 274b are top of the
 pyramid though... but for 1/10th of the price the 5V4G is a great backup... as
 well as the gz30 and others...

 ps: there is some edginess at the top with the 5V4G and the gs1000/denon d5000


----------



## Orcin

One of the features of my WA6SE that I enjoy most is one that I didn't focus on much in my review... the two separate headphone jacks. I have a set of phones for each jack, and now my wife and I can (and do) enjoy listening together.

 I asked Jack about using both headphones at the same time... would it damage the amp and would it degrade the sound? He gave the sensible warnings about lowering the volume before inserting or removing a headphone, but otherwise he gave a green light. He said "the amp is like a fire hydrant". He went on to explain that the second hose (err... phone) would get the same power as the one used alone, and there is no degradation of the signal. I have tested this myself and I cannot hear any significant difference with either of my phones using two at a time vs. one at a time.

 I think this solution to impedance matching is much preferable to the switch used on the WA6. First of all, it avoids the switch but the utility of being able to use two cans at once is a great feature for me.

 Of course, in order to take advantage of this, you need both a high impedance and a low impedance headphone to match with the proper jack. I bought my second cans (Denon D2000's) with that in mind, and cabled them with a matching Blue Dragon/Furutech as much for asthetics as sound.


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Very Nice!!!!


----------



## monsieurguzel

Hey that is almost the same setup that I have! My woo 6 se is silver though and I have a set of Denon D5000 headphones along with HD650. My girlfriend and I always listen to classical music together with this amp...very useful !!!

 Sorry for the crappy photos from my iphone


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Even when these RCA's were new, they didn't sound harsh or muddy. Are yours the same as these? Note the shield between the plates. I hear some don't have them. I'm not sure that makes a difference though.




_

 


 Back to the RCA 6DE7 discussion...

 I got another set of RCA's. I bought them off eBay as "NOS". When I got them... well, it was like a box of chocolates as Forrest Gump's mother would say. They are the tubes that are shown in the picture two posts above this one.

 The boxes are like new, and are date stamped 09/60. The tubes sound great in my amp, and I was pretty happy until I did a closer inspection. One of the tubes has the RCA logo and has the two plates with the shield. The other tube has no brand logo (completely rubbed off) and has the cross-style second plate with several perforations and no shield.

 The tube with no brand logo is stamped 6DE7, but it does not say "U.S.A." above it like the RCA does and the size of the "6DE7" is slighter larger than the same printing on the RCA. The tube with no logo does not have the black box at the top of one of the plates like the RCA does, instead it is finished with a smaller thin black square like my Sylvania.

 I suspect, given the condition of the boxes vs. the tubes, that this was a tube pull. Someone probably pulled all of the tubes out of a unit, threw away the shorted one, and put the remaining old working tubes back in the new boxes. Tube pulling was a fairly common practice for TV's, as the service call was more than the full set of tubes and people were happy to pay for a new set of tubes to avoid having to call the serviceman back in a month. If one tube went, the rest were bound to go soon - at least that was the logic at the time. Many servicemen held on to these old working tubes to be used in an emergency to keep a customer going if they were out of stock on that particular new tube.

 Anyway, if my theory is correct, these recycled 6DE7 tubes ended up in my hands. That being the case, they would be used but also probably older than 1960.

 Is it possible that the tube without the shield is RCA also? Did they make both styles? This goes back to atbglenn's point that I quoted above. The construction looks like my Sylvania tubes, but maybe they are some other brand or RCA's made for someone else.

 RCA or not, should I be happy to pair these tubes together if they sound good together? I don't see how it could harm the amp, and the sound is the ultimate grade card.

 I don't plan to return them because the seller and I reached an agreement over them not being "NOS", whereby I would keep the tubes and receive a refund of the auction price less shipping. I am happy to pay this small amount for spare tubes and new boxes, but I am considering whether to use them.

 Thanks for any help that the other 6DE7 users could give me in clarifying the questions above, particularly whether this tube might be RCA and should I have concern about using them together.


----------



## atbglenn

I purchased the RCA's pictured in my post from thetubestore.com. I called and spoke to a very friendly guy who was willing to go though his stock and tell me exactly what he had. I ended up with these 4 RCA's, all exactly the same with the shield. Unfortunately I cant remember the salesman's name. The total cost with shipping was $35.75. back in April. Maybe they still have some in stock?


----------



## Orcin

The salesman at thetubestore.com was indeed really nice, and went through his stock for me. Unfortunately, they did not have any at this time.

 He said that the 6DE7 is not a widely-used tube, and not an expensive one. Therefore, it wasn't something that they actively seek to keep in stock. He had some Sylvanias and some GE black plates made in Canada.

 I tried the mixed pair again last night, and they sound really good. Very clean and a great soundstage for 6DE7's. I am beginning to believe that "old tube" is the best way to go regardless of brand or matching.

 I still wish I knew the brand of the mystery tube.


----------



## atbglenn

Orcin,

 Why don't you give tubedepot.com a call. Maybe they have them. You never know unless you try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn

 Edit: how do the Denon's sound with the Woo? I was thinking about getting them. A friend of mine who doesn't live local, tells me they're great. He's driving them with a Gilmore Lite.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Orcin,

 Why don't you give tubedepot.com a call. Maybe they have them. You never know unless you try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn

 Edit: how do the Denon's sound with the Woo? I was thinking about getting them. A friend of mine who doesn't live local, tells me they're great. He's driving them with a Gilmore Lite._

 

The Denon sound good with the Woo, but they are a little better in the bass with a SS amp.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Denon sound good with the Woo, but they are a little better in the bass with a SS amp._

 

Better as in tighter, deeper, better defined?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Better as in tighter, deeper, better defined?_

 

Yes - tons of bass with the Woo, but with the Single Power Square Wave XL the bass is tighter and better defined just a bit. The WA6 isn't bad at all, it's just not quite there with the D2000/D5000 like the SS amp with these low impedance phones. 

 Also, this is with my having a 4-pin XLR plug on the D2000, the single ended adapter is plugged into the WA6 and the balanced adapter plugged into the Single Power - then moving the headphone between the two amps by unplugging the 4-pin from one APS V3 adapter and plugging into the other. So, they are running balanced on the Single Power, but the WA6 is single ended only.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Orcin,

 Why don't you give tubedepot.com a call. Maybe they have them. You never know unless you try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glenn

 Edit: how do the Denon's sound with the Woo? I was thinking about getting them. A friend of mine who doesn't live local, tells me they're great. He's driving them with a Gilmore Lite._

 


 Good idea. I'll give them a call.

 Regarding the D2000s, it is really hard for me to judge yet because they are not completely burned in. However, I am very impressed so far. They have a recessed midrange as everyone says, and on some music this makes the HD600's sound much more clean and balanced. But then I put on something like Pink Floyd and the Denons sound more full and powerful, like what I remember from a good set of speakers back in the day. Right now, I am considering the HD600's to be the serious reference set and the D2000's to be the fun party set.

 My wife comes over to listen, and she makes me give her the Senns if that is worth anything to you as a recommendation. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure Larry's comment is valid since he has spent a lot more time with the phones than I have, and he has a WA6 with pdps like yours. I haven't heard them with a ss amp yet, except for a brief time at the Houston meet. Shelly and I are going to get together sometime soon and compare her GS-1 and SP Extreme to the WA6SE (among other things). That should give me a good idea of how they sound with ss amps vs. tube.


----------



## atbglenn

Thanks Larry and Orcin! I appreciate the info. Right now I'm quite pleased with my current setup, but I've been hearing a lot of positive comments on the Denon's. Since they're fairly inexpensive at buy.com at under $200 I figured I'd give them a try.


----------



## scaz

thanks for the reivew!


----------



## sclamb

I got my baby back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 No more Sophia sparks or flashes


----------



## atbglenn

Great news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Take internal pictures when you have a chance. Did Jack cut down the tube socket screws?


----------



## sclamb

He did cut them down, but not by much as they still protrude. I will try and get some internals over the weekend.


----------



## atbglenn

I like that slot loaded CD player you have. I never saw one like that before. Who makes it?


----------



## EtherealApril

It looks like a Cyrus to me. 

 Sclamb, are those Herbies Audio Lab dampers on your tubes? They look like a pretty cool little tweak. Have you noticed any sound improvement from using them?


----------



## sclamb

It is a Cyrus CD6 SE. A review here:

Cyrus CD 6 SE review - whathifi.com

 A quote from that review:

 'The Cyrus CD 6 SE is a revelation. Quite simply this player is astonishing. Not astonishing for the price, you understand, but astonishing: full stop. In its areas of strength – timing, dynamics and punch – this player is comparable with the very best machines around, regardless of price. We should repeat that: regardless of price.'

 Nice thing is that is can be upgraded by Cyrus to the top of the line CD 8x.

 Simon


----------



## sclamb

Ignore this.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ignore this._

 

For some reason posting is very sluggish right now. Anyone else?


----------



## sclamb

Yes!


----------



## atbglenn

Glad it's not only me. It must be a system wide problem

 Edit: Now it's working fine....Weird

 Well, it's 5:15 am here. I think I should get some sleep. Good night Simon. Enjoy your non-sparking Woo..hehe


----------



## sclamb

Sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got my baby back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No more Sophia sparks or flashes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 



 This is great news. I presume it sounds better than ever due to the time that you spent apart.


----------



## Orcin

Back to the RCA 6DE7 discussion...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got another set of RCA's. I bought them off eBay as "NOS". When I got them... well, it was like a box of chocolates as Forrest Gump's mother would say. They are the tubes that are shown in the picture two posts above this one.

 The boxes are like new, and are date stamped 09/60. The tubes sound great in my amp, and I was pretty happy until I did a closer inspection. One of the tubes has the RCA logo and has the two plates with the shield. The other tube has no brand logo (completely rubbed off) and has the cross-style second plate with several perforations and no shield.

 The tube with no brand logo is stamped 6DE7, but it does not say "U.S.A." above it like the RCA does and the size of the "6DE7" is slighter larger than the same printing on the RCA. The tube with no logo does not have the black box at the top of one of the plates like the RCA does, instead it is finished with a smaller thin black square like my Sylvania.

 Is it possible that the tube without the shield is RCA also? Did they make both styles? This goes back to atbglenn's point that I quoted above. The construction looks like my Sylvania tubes, but maybe they are some other brand or RCA's made for someone else.

 RCA or not, should I be happy to pair these tubes together if they sound good together? I don't see how it could harm the amp, and the sound is the ultimate grade card._

 


 I tried these tubes against my Sylvania 6DE7's, 1970 RCA 6DE7's, and Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's in a "power tube shootout" last night. The mystery tubes were a clear winner. They have better bass and clarity than any of the other tubes, without losing any of the soundstage that the 6EW7's demonstrate. This says a few things:

 1. The state of my power tube collection is sad.
 2. Sylvania tubes are weak on bass?
 3. Jam is right when he says the older tubes are better.

 I still prefer to have two tubes with the same cosmetics (and branding!). I'm still looking for those NOS 1950's RCA 6DE7's... they must be out there. It's nice to have something to chase.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is great news. I presume it sounds better than ever due to the time that you spent apart. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Oh yeah baby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got the GS1000s while it was back with Jack so apart from running them for about a 100 hours on another amp I got to hear them for the first time yesterday with my WA6 SE. And they sound terrific


----------



## Feather225

THanks for the review....I was looking for it.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EtherealApril* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It looks like a Cyrus to me. 

 Sclamb, are those Herbies Audio Lab dampers on your tubes? They look like a pretty cool little tweak. Have you noticed any sound improvement from using them?_

 

They are Herbies Hal-O dampers. If there is a difference it is subtle, but I figured I paid enough for the rest of the set-up I may as well go for the dampers too


----------



## atbglenn

Simon,

 I just received the brown base Mullard GZ 30/CV2748 you recommended. WOW it's small compared to my other rectifiers. Has a nice bright heater glow when viewing from the top. Great sounding so far. I'm bidding a another one to have a spare.

 Glenn


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the RCA 6DE7 discussion...




 I tried these tubes against my Sylvania 6DE7's, 1970 RCA 6DE7's, and Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's in a "power tube shootout" last night. The mystery tubes were a clear winner. They have better bass and clarity than any of the other tubes, without losing any of the soundstage that the 6EW7's demonstrate. This says a few things:

 1. The state of my power tube collection is sad.
 2. Sylvania tubes are weak on bass?
 3. Jam is right when he says the older tubes are better.

 I still prefer to have two tubes with the same cosmetics (and branding!). I'm still looking for those NOS 1950's RCA 6DE7's... they must be out there. It's nice to have something to chase._

 

What "mystery tubes" - do they not have any label at all? Do they have any codes stamped on them? 

 I don't find the Sylvania 6DE7s to have weak bass... though... the Sylvania 6EW7s might have a little less bass than the 6DE7s... but... they have superb detail, resolution, and clarity. I think a lot of a tube's sound depends on your rectifier, as well as your source, and phones in combination. "That synergy thing." 

 I'm finding the Sylvania 6DE7s are pretty good in combination with the right components... though... I still prefer the Tung Sol 6DE7s in combination with a Tung Sol rectifier, or the Sovtek, Sylvania/Philips, or the Princess (which seems to be the best all around rectifier). And the Sylvania, or Raytheon, 6EW7s are pretty good in combination with those rectifiers also - those rectifiers seem to help optimize the bass of the 6EW7s.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Simon,

 I just received the brown base Mullard GZ 30/CV2748 you recommended. WOW it's small compared to my other rectifiers. Has a nice bright heater glow when viewing from the top. Great sounding so far. I'm bidding a another one to have a spare.

 Glenn_

 

I have three now (well you can never have too many!). I think for the price it is a great sounding tube, but not as good to look at as the Sophia.

 Simon


----------



## atbglenn

I've got about 12 rectifiers now. The total cost is less than the Sophia. Someday I'll bite the bullet and purchase one...


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What "mystery tubes" - do they not have any label at all? Do they have any codes stamped on them?_

 


The details are in this post.


 So the answer to #2 is no. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I agree, I don't think the Sylvanias have weak bass. But they don't show the strength and depth while playing NiN through the Denons like the mystery tubes do. These tubes also have more impact.

 I compared all of these tubes using the Sophia Princess rectifier.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got about 12 rectifiers now. The total cost is less than the Sophia. Someday I'll bite the bullet and purchase one..._

 

Well, I bought the Sophia first with the amp. Had I not bought it and had I heard the Mullard GZ30 first and then purchased the Sophia I would have been disappointed I think as the difference is not huge given the relative prices.

 There is definitely something special about the Sophia (not least the look of it atop your amp) and the difference can be heard, but when you are looking at $20 vs $140 then the GZ30 is good value for money IMHO.

 Simon


----------



## Orcin

I considered at first that I should NOT buy the Sophia, and instead explore all of the other rectifier options. In the end, the lure of the tube's appearance plus the thought of "leaving something on the table" was just too great for me. But I think I have probably missed out on some fun with my approach.


----------



## atbglenn

Speaking of rectifiers, how would the MULLARD GZ32 CV593 compare to the RCA 5V4? I really do love the look of the Sophia and I'm sure it's probably the best sounding, but it's just little too expensive for me right now. I want to redo the upstairs bathroom which will cost plenty if you know what I mean...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

All I can say is the Sophia Princess has noticeably better sound stage and treble, with tighter bass than my Philips metal base GZ34 (would cost you $200-400 on eBay) and my Amperex Bugle Boy GZ34 ($90).


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Back to the RCA 6DE7 discussion...

 I still prefer to have two tubes with the same cosmetics (and branding!). I'm still looking for those NOS 1950's RCA 6DE7's... they must be out there. It's nice to have something to chase._

 


 Amazingly, I found 3 RCA 6DE7's on eBay with the two plates & shield construction from the same year and lot number as my fourth. I got them Wednesday and they were exactly as advertised and look new. So I now have two pair of these made in 1960. They all sound the same... which is to say great!

 I think I may have lucked into the right tubes for the power slots... at least until I find those early 50's gems!


----------



## tosehee

Thanks for the great comparison review. I ended up getting the W6.


----------



## sclamb

I think I have found a stock of 1950s RCA 6DE7s. However, the seller wants to make sure he is not misleading me and so has asked what was the letter date code that was used by RCA for the 1950s tubes. He can then check that he has the right ones in stock.

 Does anyone know this?

 Thanks.

 Simon


----------



## Orcin

This link might help. I am not able to check my tubes against this right now to see if it is accurate.

http://mysite.verizon.net/tubetronic...TE%20CODES.pdf


 The dates do appear on the box flaps, but of course that requires the original box to be with the tube.


----------



## tosehee

Sorry for dumb question..

 What's the difference between 5U4GB and 5U4G? and is 5U4GB compatible with Woo6?


----------



## musicmind

Yes both are compatible with the WA6.

 The 5u4gb is the straight shaped, rugged version of the 5u4g, which is ST "coke-bottle" shaped. Their inner construction is also different of course.
 I havent tried as many tubes as the experts here, but from what I've read of their comments, the old 5u4g are better regarded than the 5u4gb. My experience with the few tubes I own has certainly been that my Raytheon 5u4g sounded more open and refined than the 1960s Sylvania and RCA 5u4gb I have. Nice thing is that both are quite inexpensive and worth trying out to hear for yourself. The 5u4gb might pair very nicely with the triple.fi.


----------



## Gradofan2

If you want a really dynamic, high impact, muscular sound... try the Tung Sol 5U4GB and the Tung Sol 6DE7s - really something! Great for rock, jazz, acoustic, etc.


----------



## sclamb

It seems to be hard to find 6DE7s and 6EW7s. They do not appear to be very common. Is there any alternative for the WA6, as I wouldn't like to get to my last tube and not be able to get any more!


----------



## jamato8

They aren't really uncommon but just not as popular as other tubes so they aren't shown for sale as much. It does take some searching.

 Oh, I just modified my 6 with some teflon bypass caps for the coupling caps and the first power supply cap. Gotta love those teflons from Russia with love.


----------



## Gradofan2

As great as my WA6 SE Mxd is... my tube line stage out of my Monarchy M24 Tube DAC sounds almost as good (with 2 Amperex 6DJ8s in the DAC, and 2 in the LS). Of course that's with my "new" version HD580/600s. It only drives high impedance phones so well - not so much with low impedance phones.

 They both sound phenomenal. But... the Monarchy M24 is just such a tremendous value with both a world-class DAC, and a world class line stage that functions as a headphone amp with conversion cable out of the line stage.

 You expect the expensive WA6 SE to sound phenomenal. But... you really don't expect the M24 head amp function to sound almost as good.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

The Melos SHA Gold pre-amp out XLR driving a pair of Balanced HD600 is also stunning, and beats the Zana Deux or WA6 maxed PDPSU with Sophia.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want a really dynamic, high impact, muscular sound... try the Tung Sol 5U4GB and the Tung Sol 6DE7s - really something! Great for rock, jazz, acoustic, etc._

 

I took your advice and bought Tung Sol 5U4GB from ebay for $50. Hope they are worth every penny.


----------



## atbglenn

$50 seems like an awful lot of money for a single 5U4GB. I purchased 2 NOS 1955 Sylvania 5U4GB's for $12 for the 2. I haven't heard the Tung Sol, but I would be surprised if it were THAT much better. There is that possibility though. Anyone care to chime in?


----------



## jamato8

Oh, they might be that much better but Tungsols aren't as common and just command higher prices. Tungsol as a tube manufacture was always of very high quality and frankly most of their tubes just sound better. From the 6X4 rectifier from the 1950's to the black glass 6SN7 from the 1940's they just kept on top of what they did. 

 I have a 5U4G from the 50's coming in NOS and while not 40 or 50 dollars, it did cost a little more than most other 5U4G. I still doubt though that it will be better than the two 274B's I have in the EML and Sophia.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I took your advice and bought Tung Sol 5U4GB from ebay for $50. Hope they are worth every penny._

 

You must have gotten two for that - right? Otherwise, that's a premium price for a Tung Sol rectifier - entering Mullard territory.

 I paid around $15, or $20/ea for the two I have - if I recall correctly. Though they are not the ST "Coke Bottle" tubes, which may be more expensive. I haven't been able to find any of those yet. 

 The Tung Sols are better sounding tubes in almost every tube I've had... but... I don't know that you'll consider them 2x+ better than others. They have a very solid, punchy, smooth sound with pretty good extension, clarity and detail. Soundstage may be a little smaller than the Sophia Princess, though, and resolution may be a little less. 

 But... we're talking very small differences in sound attributes with any of these tubes - even the Sophia Princess. Though, the Sophia Princess seems it may be better in most aspects of the sound, except the bass slam, and solid punch of the Tung Sols.


----------



## jamato8

I think he is talking about the ST or coke bottle shape. Yes they are better and do command a higher price. The 5U4G vs the 5U4GB (straight sided and later normally). 

 Hey, I got to 6000 posts. Wait, it changed, no longer 6000. . . .


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Hey, I got to 6000 posts. Wait, it changed, no longer 6000. . . ._

 


 John, did anyone ever tell you you're a postoholic?


----------



## jamato8

That is over 4 years. Some do that in one year!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is over 4 years. Some do that in one year!_

 

Really? Give me their names! They belong in postoholic's anonymous...LOL


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is over 4 years. Some do that in one year!_

 

Hey, I resemble that remark!


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I resemble that remark! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh gee. I would never have thought of you Larry. 

 LOL


----------



## tosehee

Sigh. guessed I paid premium, not knowing how much I should be paying for these. 

 I also bought 5U4G for $40 + shipping on impulse bidding. Sigh. I should just hold off on these and bought Sophia straight. 

 Oh well, Sophia might be my next, but I am gonna hold off at least a few months. My wife is swinging her heads left and right.. thinking I am a crazy *#@..


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sigh. guessed I paid premium, not knowing how much I should be paying for these. 

 I also bought 5U4G for $40 + shipping on impulse bidding. Sigh. I should just hold off on these and bought Sophia straight. 

 Oh well, Sophia might be my next, but I am gonna hold off at least a few months. My wife is swinging her heads left and right.. thinking I am a crazy *#@..

_

 

Well... if you got the straight bottle 5U4GB - you may have paid a bit much. I'm surprised the bidding got that high for the straight bottle tube - someone else had to be at least as interested in it as you. So you weren't the only one.

 But... you will be quite pleased with it - it has a great sound, as I noted below. 

 And... there just aren't huge differences in the sound of rectifier tubes - that I can tell, anyway. Some may sound a bit more powerful than others - greater dynamics, more gain, tighter bass, and maybe a bit more clarity and smoothness (changes that result from power quality - greater, cleaner power, faster rise time, etc.) - they're not in the signal path). You may notice a greater difference from getting a pair of Tung Sol 6DE7s, which are in the signal path - though, they can be hard to find.


----------



## atbglenn

Hey John, or anyone who knows

 My Mullard GZ30 started off as being a clear top. Now after 50 or so hours it's turning silver like a getter flash over the tops of the 2 heaters. (2 silver spots) Is that normal for this tube?

 Glenn


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey John, or anyone who knows

 My Mullard GZ30 started off as being a clear top. Now after 50 or so hours it's turning silver like a getter flash over the tops of the 2 heaters. (2 silver spots) Is that normal for this tube?

 Glenn_

 

Yes... its normal for all tubes, particularly rectifiers. As I've read... its the accumulation of contaminates in the gas inside the tube, which have settled out on the glass - if I recall correctly. But... in any case... its normal.


----------



## atbglenn

Thanks GradoFan2! I appreciate the info

 Glenn


----------



## Gradofan2

In addition to the great sound of the Tung Sol 5U4GB, and 5U4G ST tubes... I'm finding the stock Sovtek 5U4G ST to sound about as good... especially with my SA8001 SACD and Senns, which tend to have a little warmer sound, than other sources and phones. 

 The Sovtek has a slightly bright sound in the upper mids, which complements the darker sound of these components very well. It could be a bit too bright for some with brighter sources and phones, but with my set up its just right. It also has the famous Tung Sol bass and PRAT / pace... and rich mids... with good extension and detail. All of this... when teamed with the Tung Sol 6DE7s.


----------



## atbglenn

Gradofan, where did you get the Tung Sol 6DE7's from?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan, where did you get the Tung Sol 6DE7's from?_

 

I searched and searched for them from several tube vendors via Google. Then I contacted a number of vendors, and found one or two that had them. I think I also found one or two on eBay - don't recall. 

 I'll see if I can find a vendor, or two, where I found them and send them to you.

 They're "few and far between."

 You may have to search a while - but... you'll find them eventually.

 Good luck.


----------



## tosehee

I was searching for Tung Sol 6DE7 myself, and they are really hard to find. If you could send me a PM also, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. BTW, now i got both Tung Sol 5U4G and 5U4GB on its way. Anyone wants to grab one from me?


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazingly, I found 3 RCA 6DE7's on eBay with the two plates & shield construction from the same year and lot number as my fourth. I got them Wednesday and they were exactly as advertised and look new. So I now have two pair of these made in 1960. They all sound the same... which is to say great!_

 


 I am really happy with how these sound. The bass is very deep and tight compared to the other 6DE7's that I have, and much better than the 6EW7. The soundstage and clarity are as good as the Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7, which were my previous best tubes in this area (but with rolled off bass compared to the 6DE7).

 These tubes make a great combination with the Sophia 274B.


----------



## tosehee

Great. I found 2 pairs of Tung Sol 6DE7!!


----------



## Derek N

Where? Where? Where?

 I find its hard to find these smaller/cheaper tubes.


----------



## mshimao

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Derek N* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where? Where? Where?

 I find its hard to find these smaller/cheaper tubes._

 

I would like to know too! I'm getting a WA6SE.


----------



## dan_can

I think WA6 SE sounds very good with 6EW7 clear top, better than 6DE7s including my 60's RCA 6DE7, RCA 6EW7, and GE 6EW7 fat bottle.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dan_can* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think WA6 SE sounds very good with 6EW7 clear top, better than 6DE7s including my 60's RCA 6DE7, RCA 6EW7, and GE 6EW7 fat bottle._

 

Are you referring to the Sylvania or Raytheon 6EW7 clear top, fat bottle tubes compared to your RCAs and GEs???

 If so, they do seem to have greater resolution in the mids and highs, with slightly less bass emphasis. Very airy and open with lots of detail.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mshimao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to know too! I'm getting a WA6SE.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am sorry if they still have it or not. I believe that I ordered everything they got which are 4 pairs of Tung Sol 6DE7.

 Sorry. I was being little greedy, and since it was rather difficult to find, I wanted to have some extra stocks for future.


----------



## dan_can

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you referring to the Sylvania or Raytheon 6EW7 clear top, fat bottle tubes compared to your RCAs and GEs???

 If so, they do seem to have greater resolution in the mids and highs, with slightly less bass emphasis. Very airy and open with lots of detail._

 

I have one pair of Raytheon and one pair of Westinghouse. No idea who made for Westinghouse, but it sounds better than Raytheon's. You're absolutely right, the clear top 6EW7 has got loads of detail and sweet mids. Since I'm using Edition 9, the bass is just about right. I prefer them to all the 6DE7s and non-clear top 6EW7s I've got.


----------



## sclamb

I am definitely preferring the 6EW7s with the GS1000s. They seem to balance the bass better with the mids and highs than do the 6DE7s.


----------



## Derek N

Where are you guys finding the 6DE7 and 6EW7 tubes? I find most of the normal outlets don't carry them.


----------



## sclamb

On the Bay and other online vendors such as Tubedepot and Tubeworld.


----------



## atbglenn

I got mine from thetubestore.com. You need to call them and ask what brands they have in stock. make sure they have 2 or more of the same brand and of the same vintage


----------



## DoubleEs

Are the 6EW7s a direct replacement to the 6DE7s or do you need adapters to use them?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are the 6EW7s a direct replacement to the 6DE7s or do you need adapters to use them?_

 

No adapter needed with the 6 SE or the newer Standard 6 with the larger cutouts


----------



## DoubleEs

Thanks, I got the older version


----------



## musicmind

The older WA6 can take the thin RCA 6ew7 without an adaptor.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The older WA6 can take the thin RCA 6ew7 without an adaptor._

 

That is a thin bottle 6EW7?


----------



## jamato8

Yes, RCA made some. They are ok but nothing special to my ear.


----------



## musicmind

Yes, AFAIK RCA is the only available thin bottle 6ew7 which can fit into the narrower socket of the older WA6 amps. 

 I'm not sure how they sound compared to the fat bottle 6ew7 tubes, I hope to receive a pair of RCA 6ew7 in the next few days to try them out myself.


----------



## tosehee

I just received both Tung Sol 6DE7 and Tung 5U4G/B.

 Wow. Unbelievable.. I didn't expect this much improvements from my previous setup.

 Halcron --> Tung Sol 5U4G ST (Man. This is major). Silk smooth.
 Raytheon -> Tung Sun 6DE7 (Wow)

 Wow.. Just wow. This is what you guys meant by "Tubey" sound...


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, AFAIK RCA is the only available thin bottle 6ew7 which can fit into the narrower socket of the older WA6 amps. 

 I'm not sure how they sound compared to the fat bottle 6ew7 tubes, I hope to receive a pair of RCA 6ew7 in the next few days to try them out myself._

 

I just got a pair of thin bottle RCA 6EW7 and they sound better in my WA6SE than the GE fat bottle 6EW7, and perhaps a little better than the Sylvania 6DE7 too. They give me the better bass of the 6DE7 with the better spaciousness of the 6EW7.


----------



## DoubleEs

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a pair of thin bottle RCA 6EW7 and they sound better in my WA6SE than the GE fat bottle 6EW7, and perhaps a little better than the Sylvania 6DE7 too. They give me the better bass of the 6DE7 with the better spaciousness of the 6EW7._

 

Jeez 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks, not only am I on the look out for 5998s, 6SL7s, 6SN7s, VT-229, VT231, I have to add the 'thin' 6EW7s too


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a pair of thin bottle RCA 6EW7 and they sound better in my WA6SE than the GE fat bottle 6EW7, and perhaps a little better than the Sylvania 6DE7 too. They give me the better bass of the 6DE7 with the better spaciousness of the 6EW7._

 

Thanks for the feedback sclamb, sounds promising


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoubleEs* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jeez 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, not only am I on the look out for 5998s, 6SL7s, 6SN7s, VT-229, VT231, I have to add the 'thin' 6EW7s too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Yeah! I didn't factor in the tube addiciton when I got the WA6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now have a BIG box just for all the tubes I find myself buying.

 I have to find some of those RCA 6DE7s from the 1950s now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simon


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received both Tung Sol 6DE7 and Tung 5U4G/B.

 Wow. Unbelievable.. I didn't expect this much improvements from my previous setup.

 Halcron --> Tung Sol 5U4G ST (Man. This is major). Silk smooth.
 Raytheon -> Tung Sun 6DE7 (Wow)

 Wow.. Just wow. This is what you guys meant by "Tubey" sound..._

 

Interesting! What was your previous set-up on the WA6?


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting! What was your previous set-up on the WA6?_

 

OK, forget that. I just re-read your post and saw the previous set-up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Interesting to see if there is a rectifier that tops the Sophia Princess at a more affordable price. The best I have found so far is the Mullard GZ30 brown base, although is doesn't better the Sophia.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received both Tung Sol 6DE7 and Tung 5U4G/B.

 Wow. Unbelievable.. I didn't expect this much improvements from my previous setup.

 Halcron --> Tung Sol 5U4G ST (Man. This is major). Silk smooth.
 Raytheon -> Tung Sun 6DE7 (Wow)

 Wow.. Just wow. This is what you guys meant by "Tubey" sound..._

 

Do you mean... 

 ... you got a Tung Sol 5U4GB... or... a Tung Sol 5U4G ST... or... both??? 

 If both... do you mean... the Tung Sol 5U4GB is better than the Tung Sol 5U4G ST???


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just received both Tung Sol 6DE7 and Tung 5U4G/B.

 Wow. Unbelievable.. I didn't expect this much improvements from my previous setup.

 Halcron --> Tung Sol 5U4G ST (Man. This is major). Silk smooth.
 Raytheon -> Tung Sun 6DE7 (Wow)

 Wow.. Just wow. This is what you guys meant by "Tubey" sound..._

 


 Interesting. I am also curious about which rectifier you like.

 It's great when you find that combination that changes the sound for the better. It's a wonderful feeling... until the next day when you start to mull over the possibility that there is something different out there that would improve it again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listened to my rig last night, and I was blown away by how good it sounded. All of my tubes are burned in, and so are the phones. The sound was so open I could swear I was listening to electrostats. However, the deep and powerful bass out of the Denons proved otherwise.

 For the record, my current tube combo is:
 - Sophia Princess
 - 1960 RCA 6DE7's with shield
 - 1953 WE JW-2C51-396A (in my DAC)


----------



## jacdan

I'm leaning towards getting a WA6SE for my RS1s but I'd like to keep the cost down if possible. The tubes upgrade isn't so hefty but is the premium parts upgrade package worth the cost? I'm new to tube amps and am trying to learn what I can from this great, albeit, expensive forum.

 Another dumb question, does Woo include the PSU umbilical cord with the 6SE?


----------



## jamato8

It includes the umbilical but not the power cord. I think the biggest upgrade would be the tubes.


----------



## dan_can

Tubes first. The max'ed out WA6 SE sounds like a crap with stock 5U4G compared with Sophia Princess 274B mesh plate.


----------



## jamato8

Capacitors and resistors have come a long way. Even fairly inexpensive but well made from good manufactures are way ahead of past caps. I would focus on the tubes and enjoy the amp.


----------



## jacdan

Ok, sounds good. Thanks people.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean... 

 ... you got a Tung Sol 5U4GB... or... a Tung Sol 5U4G ST... or... both??? 

 If both... do you mean... the Tung Sol 5U4GB is better than the Tung Sol 5U4G ST???_

 

I got both.

 I don't think 5U4GB is really that much better than Halcron. But, 5U4G ST is really great.. Big improvements from Halcron.

 My current setup is:

 Tung Sol 5U4G ST along with Tung Sol 6DE7.


----------



## Derek N

Well guys I received my WA6SE a couple days ago and have to say I am already impressed with the sound. I hooked it up to start burn-in and didn't want to listen until it was at its best. Well I couldn't help myself and listened about 15 minutes in and boy did it sound awesome! If this thing only gets better with burn-in then the sky is the limit!

 As with everything else concerning this forum, of course I have gone hog wild with tubes. I think I already have more rectifiers than any human actually needs. It will be fun listening for the differences. I am saving the Sophia and Full Music 274b/n+ for the future. The EML 274b will also be added some time in January when JAC has them back in stock.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Derek N* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I am saving the Sophia and Full Music 274b/n+ for the future. The EML 274b will also be added some time in January when JAC has them back in stock.




_

 


 gotta warn you, the full music 274b/n+ has a current draw of 4 amperes...
 this may fry your wa6SE power transformer. the 274b/n draws less than 3A.
 the 274b/n+ is the extra tall slender version; keep away from this.


----------



## Derek N

takezo

 Thanks for the warning! Its a good thing JAC didn't have it in stock! I just checked my invoice and we substituted the 274B/n. I did also add the 274A/n/+ though. I will have to read up on the specs for that one. I read some material about the original Western Electric versions and thought the B was basically a newer version of the A. There is clearly much to learn here!

 At least i had a little beginners luck in not getting the 274B/n/+ then.

 Another question, is there a owners manual for the wa6SE as I didn't get one. Specifically what the ratings are and what ranges I need to stay within?


----------



## Orcin

Gratz on the new amp, Derek!

 If you send me a PM with your email address, I will send you the pdf owner's manual. Unfortunately, it doesn't help much with tubes. The best thing to do is search on "wa6 tubes" for posts by takezo. He has published a complete list of compatible tubes somewhere, but I can't remember what thread it was in atm.


----------



## nsc4u

is woo audio wa6 better than dv337?


----------



## drjjpdc

As a newbie to the site and after only 1 meet (the recent one in Harrison, NY), I have fallen hard for the Woo amps. I've always wanted an SET amp but knew with full range loudspeakers and liking full symphonic and organ music that a SET is limited. Using such an amp with Headphones is another matter entirely. I am seriously leaning to the wa6se, only because you have a tough time adding real estate. As much as I would like to be perfectly happy with the wa6 (and it does sound great), I would really feel crappy if I would have to sell it just to buy the SE later on. Since you can't upgrade the wa6 by buying the PSU later on you are stuck with a tough decision at the beginning. To say that I am conflicted is an understatement.

 That said I am enjoying the site, am quite surprised not being a headphone person in the past and dedicated to floor standing loudspeakers. I plan on getting a Predator for my laptop and portable listening, but a full can amp is definitely in my future. Any other suggestions from the more experienced members is definitely welcome.


----------



## Orcin

Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry for your wallet.

 My recommendation is go for the home headphone amp first, and don't try to make do. Leave the portable stuff for later unless that is your only avenue to listen.

 Between the WA6 and WA6SE, go for the gusto!


----------



## Orcin

Once again, takezo was right about tubes. I finally found a RCA 5V4G (1948 NOS) at a good price, and got it yesterday. It is luscious! The bass is very sold indeed. I was very pleased with this tube so far... we'll see if there is any noticeable change during burn-in.


----------



## Torero

Hi, after many comparisons, i can say:

 I prefer all 6ew7 tubes over my RCA 6de7.
 I have a pair of GE 6ew7 (with +300h) and a pair of SYLVANIA 6ew7 (with +200h ). And I prefer clearly the GE 6ew7 over SYLVANIA 6ew7. It's more fine and detailed. Right now it's my Unicorn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have a pair of RCA 6ew7 too, but i don't know if to try it with these because they are identical to a Sylvania 6ew7.

 Raytheon or Westinghouse 6ew7, are they much better than GE?


 Regards


----------



## Orcin

Torero,

 What type of music? I found the 6DE7 to have more impact and bass, especially with my Denon D2000's and rock/alternative. I am betting that you like jazz and/or classical with your K701's, and I would prefer the 6EW7 for that genre and phone myself. The 6EW7 has a bigger soundstage and is more seductive.

 Are you using thin bottle or fat bottle Sylvania? I really like the fat bottle pair that I have.

 I think the Westinghouse is a re-branded GE but the Raytheon is probably different. It would be worth trying a pair to see.


----------



## atbglenn

Jack gave me these power output specs for those who are interested. 

 WA6SE, 950mW per channel at 32 Ohms, 780mW per channel at 100 Ohms.

 WA6, 380mW per channel at 32 Ohms, 200mW per channel at 100 Ohms.

 I emailed him again for the 300 ohm spec. So far no response.



 Glenn


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Torero,

 Are you using thin bottle or fat bottle Sylvania? I really like the fat bottle pair that I have.
_

 

I have got :

 RCA 6de7
 Sylvania 6ew7 fat bottle
 RCA 6ew7 fat bottle
 GE 6ew7 fat bottle & clear-top

 The question is: Which is the 6ew7 better?


----------



## breakfastchef

I am running Sylvania 6DE7's and the Sophia 274B. This is an outstanding combination. The rectifier upgrade probably accounted for 80%+ improvement in soundstage, midrange and bass. The WA6 SE is an outstanding headphone amp. Yes, I have become a fanboy of Woo Audio and cannot see where one would need to spend significantly more money to achive such a fine sound.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *breakfastchef* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am running Sylvania 6DE7's and the Sophia 274B. This is an outstanding combination. The rectifier upgrade probably accounted for 80%+ improvement in soundstage, midrange and bass. The WA6 SE is an outstanding headphone amp. Yes, I have become a fanboy of Woo Audio and cannot see where one would need to spend significantly more money to achive such a fine sound._

 

I hate the term "fanboy", but I guess I'm in the same boat as you. I love Woo products immensely. I guess I'm a fanboy too.


----------



## breakfastchef

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hate the term "fanboy", but I guess I'm in the same boat as you. I love Woo products immensely. I guess I'm a fanboy too._

 

So, what is 'self loathing' like? At least you have a great amp!


----------



## drjjpdc

Thank you Orcin. I (and my wallet) had a feeling you were going in that direction. Since my wife is a NY Giant fan after a terrific win against Carolina, I guess now might be a good time to try and ask her and slip (the woo 6a SE) it by her. My new (as yet unlistened to) AKG 701's deserve nothing less, I imagine!


----------



## kevinvisionm

hi guys, i have a woo 6 with Sophia and western house 6de7 run with hd650. What tubes should i change to have a better sound? I found 2 Sylvania 6de7 for pretty cheap ($10). Should i give them a try?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kevinvisionm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi guys, i have a woo 6 with Sophia and western house 6de7 run with hd650. What tubes should i change to have a better sound? I found 2 Sylvania 6de7 for pretty cheap ($10). Should i give them a try?_

 

Here are some great tubes:

 Rectifiers:
 Tung Sol 5U4G / 5U4GB and similar
 Philco 5U4GB
 Sylvania 5U4GB
 Sovtek 5U4G

 All are great, but the Sophia is better.

 Dual Triodes:
 Tung Sol 6DE7s
 Aperex 6DE7s (Holland Orange Label)
 Philco 6DE7s
 Sylvania 6DE7s
 RCA 6DE7s (50s & 60s)
 Raytheon 6EW7s
 Sylvania 6EW7s

 All are good, but the following are a "hair" better.

 The Tung Sols, Amperex and Philco 6DE7s are exceptional, as are the Raytheon and Sylvania 6EW7s (which have more resolution, air and clarity, but a bit less bass drive).

 If you want lots of bass drive and impact, and rich mids and highs try the all Tung Sol combo, or Tung Sol / Amperex combo. If you want greater refinement and resolution try the Philco or Sylvania Rectifiers with the 6EW7s. Or a combo of Tung Sol Rectifiers with the 6EW7s for a "happy medium." 

 If you've got the Sophia - you really don't need more in Rectifiers. Though, if I wanted a bit more warmth and drive - you might get a Tung Sol. I'd tend to focus more on a selection of 6DE7 / 6EW7s.


----------



## takezo

*******Caution: jack of wooaudio has let it be known that recents units of the wa6SE
 have differing parts, and may need a change of the cathode caps to make use of alternative
 tubes like the 6FD7 and 6GF7A. make sure your amp has the cathode caps rated at 200v or higher.
 some earlier wa6SE units may have cathode caps rated at 100v only. (change to 200v or higher
 if you want to make use of the 6FD7 and 6GF7A)


 the following rectifiers (input) and dual triodes (output) are compatible and safe to use with
 the woo audio wa6 and wa6SE headphone amps. please feel free to add any other tube types
 that are confirmed compatible, and are not listed below.

 i was concerned about the high "mu" or amplification factor on some of the output tube types but 
 fortunately i've yet to encounter any distortion in SQ nor increase in floor noise. the increase in 
 "mu" definitely gives an increase in dynamics and soundstage. it should help those of you who
 have a relatively low output power source DAC. likewise, if your DAC or CDplayer source has a
 very high power output, you may encounter some noise or distortion with the high "mu" output tubes.
 i use the vda2/vac1 DAC which puts out 2.25 vrms and did not encounter any humming.

 i've been trying out the output tubes for the past 2 months and would've posted them earlier but
 delayed it till i had a chance to receive all of those listed and gave it a good listen. i find them
 more than acceptable and preferable to the 6DE7.

 after about a half a year of using the 6sn7 on the wa6 and the wa6SE i've come to the conclusion
 that the 6sn7 is a superb drive tube with an efficient power section too, at least with class A SET with
 a output transformer. it's quite different than the 6de7 which is a fine dissimilar triode in itself. the
 6sn7 is an equivalent dual triode that seems to present a larger sound-scape or arena without any
 hint of compression nor edginess. the 6sn7 presentation is more refined and has an elegant sound
 that will offend the least whereas the 6de7 is very dynamic with a U-shaped freq. characterisics.
 for 70's/80's rock the 6de7 is great but with classical and small ensemble jazz the 6sn7's refined
 sound hits the spot dead on.

 RECTIFIERS ( RECTIFIER ):
 *these must be at or below 3.0A

 5U4G/ 5U4GA/ 5U4GB/ 5U4WG ( U52, VT-244, 5931 )
 5AR4 ( GZ34 )
 5AS4
 5R4/ GA/ GB/ GY/ GYA/ GYB/ WGA/ WGB ( CV717 )
 5V4G ( GZ32, CV593 )
 5AQ4
 5Y3G/ T
 5Z3 ( with adapter; 4-pin version of 5u4g )
 5Z4G/ T ( GZ30, 52KU, CV1863, CV2748 )
 U50, U54, U88
 53KU
 GZ33
 GZ37 ( CV378 )
 422A
 274A ( with adapter )
 274B *don't use chinese variance with 4.0A



 DUAL TRIODES ( INPUT/OUTPUT ):
 (#) = AMPLIFICATION "MU" FACTOR
 no adapters are needed and these are
 safe for use in wa6 and wa6SE:



 6DE7 (17.5) - Fast transients, good for rock, pop
 6EW7 (17.5) - Softer sound but slightly larger soundstage, good for some jazz, classical

 *******Caution: jack of wooaudio has let it be known that recents units of the wa6SE
 have differing parts, and may need a change of the cathode caps to make use of alternative
 tubes like the 6FD7 and 6GF7A. make sure your amp has the cathode caps rated at 200v or higher.
 some earlier wa6SE units may have cathode caps rated at 100v only. (change to 200v or higher
 if you want to make use of the 6FD7 and 6GF7A)

 6CY7 (68) - between 6de7 and 6ew7
 6DR7 (68) - similar to 6de7 but higher gain
 6FD7 (64) - punchy bass, large soundstage, fast transients

 *update: with homemade adapters one can make use of the following
 dual triodes in the output section. for use in the wa6 and wa6SE.

 *******Caution: jack of wooaudio has let it be known that recents units of the wa6SE
 have differing parts, and may need a change of the cathode caps to make use of alternative
 tubes like the 6FD7 and 6GF7A. make sure your amp has the cathode caps rated at 200v or higher.
 some earlier wa6SE units may have cathode caps rated at 100v only. (change to 200v or higher
 if you want to make use of the 6FD7 and 6GF7A)



 6DA7/A - similar to 6ew7 but hard to find
 6cg7 **** - similar to 6sn7 but sounds bit more faster with less noise, smaller soundstage
 6fq7 **** - same as above
 6gu7 **** - similar to above 
 6gf7/A - higher gain with very fast transients
 6cs7 - similar to 6ew7, good for string instruments
 6sn7 **** - very little distortion, large soundstage, solid bass, refined mids and highs
 7n7 (loktal version of 6sn7) - same as 6sn7
 ecc31 - higher gain, clear sound, less euphonic
 ecc32 - similar to ecc31
 6dn7/6em7/6ea7 - similar to 6sn7 but less refined highs and slightly higher gain
 6bz7 - similar to 6ew7
 6385/2c51/5670 ** - large soundstage, clear highs, slightly higher gain
 6900/5687/7119/7044 - punchy bass, fast transients
 7308/e188cc - very musical with refined mids and highs, slightly soft transients
 6922 /e88cc *** - same as 7308
 6DJ8 /ecc88 *** - same as above with different specs.
 7DJ8/PCC88 *** - same as above with differing heater req. but works with softer transients.
 6N6P *** very natural, open presentation, with slight warmth. equals or betters the 6922.
 ..............slight mid-bass hump present compared to 6dj8 and it's variants. great for bass lovers
 6H30 *** very open presentation and slightly more dynamic than 6N6P


 **this is only for wa6, with or without the pdps 
 (but not a direct substitute for the wa6SE. one way to use them on the wa6SE is to lower the voltage
 to 150v at the anode plates and to raise the resistance to grid at pin 2 to at least 50 ohms to avoid clipping due
 to the high gain nature of the amp and the tube itself. this is an amazing sounding tube that's comparable to
 the 6dj8 family imo. this can be internally in the amp section or in the adapter with use of resistor at pin 1 (anode
 of the power section) and pin 2 (grid of power section).)

 ***(must lower the voltage being supplied to the anode plate to 90v for 6dj8 and 100-130v for 6922/7308
 in both wa6 and wa6SE. cathode resistance must be raised to 5.2k from 3.3k for the wa6SE only, to avoid clipping
 due to high gain.) the 7dj8 has a 7v heater requirement but the 6.3 seems to sufficient as the sound is great.
 the 6N6P and 6H30 can be used directly, with the adapter, without any resistors in the wa6.
 low and high voltages to the anode section works equally well with the 6N6P/6H30 type. 
 applied 22 to 24 mA seems to work well.

 **** the 6SN7 works fine on the wa6 but not so good with the 6SE. However, if you raise the cathode
 resistance from 3.3K to approx. 4.7k,to avoid clipping, it sounds very very fine. i love this tube. you can 
 work with the resistance value to voice the amp to your headphone. playing with the cathode capacitance 
 will further refine the sound to your liking. the 6cg7/6fq7 and 6gu7 is almost as good as some NOS 6sn7.
 it seems to be quieter than the 6sn7 in that there are zero mechanical or microphonic noise.
 if you use black gate capacitors after the rectifier, make sure it's rated at above 200v. ideally it
 should be at 350v. 

 *******Caution: jack of wooaudio has let it be known that recents units of the wa6SE
 have differing parts, and may need a change of the cathode caps to make use of alternative
 tubes like the 6FD7 and 6GF7A. make sure your amp has the cathode caps rated at 200v or higher.
 some earlier wa6SE units may have cathode caps rated at 100v only. (change to 200v or higher
 if you want to make use of the 6FD7 and 6GF7A)


----------



## tosehee

Am I crazy to sell off what I got and try the GS-1? I am new to this area, and I wanted to see how the solid state sounds like.

 It seems that I have to sacrifice a lot of money to experience this difference..  I am trying to either trade for GS-1 + $$$ or Sell it off to buy the GS-1, but I am getting some real lowball offers that make me wonder whether it's a good idea or not in the first place..

 Maybe I should just stick with WA6...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the following rectifiers (input) and dual triodes (output) are compatible and safe to use with
 the woo audio wa6 and wa6SE headphone amps. please feel free to add any other tube types
 that are confirmed compatible, and are not listed below.

 i was concerned about the high "mu" or amplification factor on some of the output tube types but 
 fortunately i've yet to encounter any distortion in SQ nor increase in floor noise. the increase in 
 "mu" definitely gives an increase in dynamics and soundstage. it should help those of you who
 have a relatively low output power source DAC. likewise, if your DAC or CDplayer source has a
 very high power output, you may encounter some noise or distortion with the high "mu" output tubes.
 i use the vda2/vac1 DAC which puts out 2.25 vrms and did not encounter any humming.

 i've been trying out the output tubes for the past 2 months and would've posted them earlier but
 delayed it till i had a chance to receive all of those listed and gave it a good listen. i find them
 more than acceptable and preferable to the 6DE7.

 RECTIFIERS ( INPUT ):

 5U4G/ 5U4GA/ 5U4GB/ 5U4WG ( U52, VT-244, 5931 )
 5AR4 ( GZ34 )
 5AS4
 5R4/ GA/ GB/ GY/ GYA/ GYB/ WGA/ WGB ( CV717 )
 5V4G ( GZ32, CV593 )
 5AQ4
 5Y3G/ T
 5Z3 ( with adapter; 4-pin version of 5u4g )
 5Z4G/ T ( GZ30, 52KU, CV1863, CV2748 )
 U50, U54, U88
 53KU
 GZ33
 GZ37 ( CV378 )
 422A
 274A ( with adapter )
 274B



 DUAL TRIODES ( OUTPUT ):
 (#) = AMPLIFICATION "MU" FACTOR

 6DE7 (17.5)
 6EW7 (17.5)
 6CY7 (68)
 6DA7/A (20)
 6DR7 (68)
 6FD7 (64)_

 

In which amp did you try these the WA6, or WA6 SE?

 I would have thought the MU would produce too much gain in the SE, which already has a lot of gain / power output. I can barely stand the volume levels above 11 O'clock with the 6DE7s and the standard 2.2 volt source. I would think that would drop to <9 O'clock with these high MUs... and... would be very sensitive to adjustment. No???

 So... all these output tubes are identical, except for the MU... and... are interchangeable???


----------



## jamato8

I notice a very high plate resistance of the higher mu tubes. You don't notice an high frequency roll off?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In which amp did you try these the WA6, or WA6 SE?

 I would have thought the MU would produce too much gain in the SE, which already has a lot of gain / power output. I can barely stand the volume levels above 11 O'clock with the 6DE7s and the standard 2.2 volt source. I would think that would drop to <9 O'clock with these high MUs... and... would be very sensitive to adjustment. No???

 So... all these output tubes are identical, except for the MU... and... are interchangeable???_

 

i've tried them on both. 

 it will reduce the volume pot range if your source is high but it's a trade off
 for the ability to try tubes other than the 6de7/6ew7. my source is 2.25vrms,
 and using the 6de7 comfortable listening volume is at 11 o'clock... with a
 6fd7 it's around 9 o'clock.

 and best is that most of these are very cheap ~ $1 to $5 ... except the 6DA7/A
 which go for about $10. and yes, these are safely interchangeable.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've tried them on both. 

 it will reduce the volume pot range if your source is high but it's a trade off
 for the ability to try tubes other than the 6de7/6ew7. my source is 2.25vrms,
 and using the 6de7 comfortable listening volume is at 11 o'clock... with a
 6fd7 it's around 9 o'clock.

 and best is that most of these are very cheap ~ $1 to $5 ... except the 6DA7/A
 which go for about $10. and yes, these are safely interchangeable._

 

So which is your favorite or do you have one?


----------



## takezo

among the new types i'd have to say the fatbottle 6fd7 seems to
 have similar characteristics to the 6ew7 but better bass and bigger
 soundstage. the 6cy7 and 6dr7 are closer to the 6de7 with 
 increased dynamics and soundstage. and did i mention they're 
 cheap? i got about 20 tubes for about $65... the 6da7/a is closer
 to 6ew7 but the most expensive of the group. probably not worth it...


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_among the new types i'd have to say the fatbottle 6fd7 seems to
 have similar characteristics to the 6ew7 but better bass and bigger
 soundstage._

 

I am stunned!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Then, IYHO, is the 6fdt better than the 6ew7? Now, which is your favorite tube?


----------



## takezo

i'd say the 6fd7 is preferable to the 6ew7... 
 people hear things differently and have personal preferences, so
 i don't want to say "better" like it's written in stone... i like all of
 the output tubes... maybe the 6fd7 the best... followed closely by
 the 6cy7.


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'd say the 6fd7 is preferable to the 6ew7... 
 people hear things differently and have personal preferences, so
 i don't want to say "better" like it's written in stone... i like all of
 the output tubes... maybe the 6fd7 the best... followed closely by
 the 6cy7._

 


 Is the 6fd7 worse than the 6ew7 in some area? (detail, tonality,...)


 Thanks you takezo


----------



## Orcin

Takezo, you are once again waaay ahead of the curve on tube selection. I believe you may have outdone yourself this time. Thank you for that excellent new information!


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the 6fd7 worse than the 6ew7 in some area? (detail, tonality,...)


 Thanks you takezo_

 

none that i can discern... the fat bottle seems to have a slight edge in
 tonality than the regular slim version... though it may just be that the
 fatbottle i have has more burn-in. rca is also slightly darker than sylvania, which
 some prefer for their "tubey" signature.


----------



## takezo

thanks orcin. i hope you enjoy them as i do. the added dynamics
 and larger/deeper soundstage is making my 5v4g sound very close
 to a sophia with 6de7.... very close.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks orcin. i hope you enjoy them as i do. the added dynamics
 and larger/deeper soundstage is making my 5v4g sound very close
 to a sophia with 6de7.... very close._

 


 I agree. The Sophia is a bit more open and wider, that's about it. The bass and impact is surprisingly close, considering the massive difference in price. The 5V4G sounds a little more tubey, but not in a bad way.


----------



## musicmind

Takezo, many thanks for posting your findings with the different output tubes. 
 Does the 6fd7 come in a "thin" version that can be used without an adaptor, for those with the older WA6?


----------



## takezo

yes, the 6fd7 are found mostly in the normal thin version. the fat
 bottle is actually less common for all of the newer output tubes.
 these are not popular tube types so you should be able to locate
 them at any tube dealers website for very good prices. i got most
 of my tubes at $1 - 3 each... and they sound better than any 6de7
 tubes i've got. i prefer them to the tungsol, and even the early 50's 
 u-shaped getter 6de7 too.


----------



## sclamb

I have just ordered a pair of fat bottle RCA 6fd7 to try. I have not read anywhere that these are a replacement for the 6de7 or 6ew7, but I assume from your review that it is a compatible tube.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have just ordered a pair of fat bottle RCA 6fd7 to try. I have not read anywhere that these are a replacement for the 6de7 or 6ew7, but I assume from your review that it is a compatible tube._

 

Yes... they are.

 I confirmed that with Jack, before I ordered some of the same to give them a try.

 He said you might notice a bit of noise with very efficient, low impedance phones - but, not much. The result of their much higher output I guess. But he noted no issues with compatibility, or stress to the system, otherwise.


----------



## sclamb

Great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will be using my GS1000 so I will see if there is any audible noise.


----------



## Fido2

Nice sclamb...I am interested in your findings!


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, the 6fd7 are found mostly in the normal thin version. the fat
 bottle is actually less common for all of the newer output tubes.
 these are not popular tube types so you should be able to locate
 them at any tube dealers website for very good prices. i got most
 of my tubes at $1 - 3 each... and they sound better than any 6de7
 tubes i've got. i prefer them to the tungsol, and even the early 50's 
 u-shaped getter 6de7 too._

 

Thank you takezo. If Jack also doesn't think the high mu would cause the amp any damage, I'll give these a try. More dynamics and soundstage are always welcome


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks orcin. i hope you enjoy them as i do. the added dynamics
 and larger/deeper soundstage is making my 5v4g sound very close
 to a sophia with 6de7.... very close._

 

Takezo, are you preferring your 5v4g to the brimar 5r4gy with the 6fd7 tubes? From your earlier experiments, I had understood that you found the Brimar 5r4gy with 6ew7 output tubes to be the closest sounding combo to the 274B.

 Thanks again.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Takezo, are you preferring your 5v4g to the brimar 5r4gy with the 6fd7 tubes? From your earlier experiments, I had understood that you found the Brimar 5r4gy with 6ew7 output tubes to be the closest sounding combo to the 274B.

 Thanks again._

 

hey, A. the newer output tubes are making all of the rectifiers sound more
 open and transparent than ever. i still prefer the brimar 5r4gy but you may
 differ in opinion. with the new tubes the 5v4g sounds almost on par with
 the sophia w/ 6de7, minus air at top and some micro detail... the 5r4gy brimar
 is in the same league as the 274b w/ 6de7 in the soundstage dept... almost
 on par in the micro detail but still behind in the bass/sub-bass region. 

 almost forgot; the 274b with the new output tubes are a revelation in the 
 micro detail dept... amazing. it's as if the extra gain is allowing the true colors
 of the 274b to shine...separation of notes is the best i've encountered yet.
 i'd imagine electrostatic rigs will sound something like this...but possibly better.
 i think i'll have to look into an electrostatic set-up sometime next year...

 also the headphone and source will factor into what you get out of these
 combinations i'm certain. get your solder irons in gear cause the pdps will
 really allow you to get the best out of the wa6.


----------



## musicmind

Thanks again takezo, great info as always.

 Any particular 6fd7 brand you think is the "best" ?

 I have a 1951 Sylvania 5v4ga I got a few weeks ago. Like Orcin said, it has some nice subtle but noticeable tube lushness. It isn't as aggressive or thick in the bass as the 5r4gya, and I paired it with the D5000 for a few listening sessions. 
 I'm not sure if you have tried a 5v4ga and if it is the same sound as the 5v4g? 

 The 1950's Raytheon 5u4g is still the most resolving and balanced sounding tube I've tried without breaking the bank. Will be picking up my thin bottle RCA 6ew7 tomorrow, quite keen to give them a try.

 Thanks again, happy listening.


----------



## sclamb

I am currently using a pair of RCA thin bottle 6ew7 with my Sophia and I prefer the sound to the fat bottle GE 6ew7. The bass seems a bit better defined and the soundstage seems a bit more expansive to my old ears.


----------



## takezo

i've only tried rca and sylvania brands of the 6fd7. not much difference except
 the fatbottle of the rca seems to have a slightly sweeter tone than the slim
 bottle version. (10+ hrs. of burn-in is recommended for best sound.)

 the 5v4ga is thicker sounding to me compared to the 5v4g. the latter sounds
 a bit more transparent and a bit more open at the top. great for senn cans
 but slightly unfocused with gs1000 and d5000. it could just be that the 5v4g is
 much more burnt-in than the 5v4ga that i have... both were "NOS" when i 
 purchased but i've no way of verifying this.

 the 5r4ga is similar as above, in that it too sounds "thicker" in the mid to 
 sub-bass region and less transparent than the 5r4gy, especially the brimar 
 version.

 there's nothing bad about 5u4g... i just find most of the usa brands to sound 
 uncontrolled at the bottom. the roundbase english versions seems to sound
 more controlled though, but much more expensive... may not be worth it
 especially if you like the common 5u4g sound signature.

 again, this is with units that have john's pdps modification... i forget how the
 stock wa6 sounded...


----------



## Torero

Takezo:

 You say that the 6fd7 is better than the 6ew7. But, have you got any 6ew7 clear-top?

 I have got several 6ew7 and the clear-top is clearly better than normal 6ew7. I will try the thin bottle 6ew7 and i will post the results here.


----------



## dan_can

I personally prefer 6EW7 fat bottle clear top to 6DE7s and other 6EW7s on WA6 SE max'ed out. I should've added that I had no experience at all with 6fd7.


----------



## takezo

yes, i have clear top 6ew7 and they're fine. the 6fd7 is preferable;
 i won't say "better" since i can only speak for myself, but it has
 mid and sub bass that is preferable than what the 6ew7, clear top or
 otherwise, presents. but you should judge for yourself and not
 rely on my limited impressions. the 6fd7 are similar or lower in price
 than the 6ew7 so it may be worth while to experiment.


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, i have clear top 6ew7 and they're fine. the 6fd7 is preferable;
 i won't say "better" since i can only speak for myself, but it has
 mid and sub bass that is preferable than what the 6ew7, clear top or
 otherwise, presents. but you should judge for yourself and not
 rely on my limited impressions. the 6fd7 are similar or lower in price
 than the 6ew7 so it may be worth while to experiment._

 

I have already bought a pair of RCA thin bottle 6fd7 and a pair of RCA fat bottle 6fd7. Moreover a pair of RCA thin bottle 6ew7. Sclamb say that they are better than GE 6we7 (that are clear-top). 

 In 6fdt, Is the clear-top clearly better than normal like happened in 6ew7?

 Of course the sound is very subjective and it depend much of synergy of the system. But i think the personal opinions give always clues.


----------



## takezo

i'm not certain that all "clear" bottle types are "better" than the
 top getter tubes. the earlier 50's type are all top getter types and
 they were made during the heydays of tube manufacturing... but
 if one prefers a clear top for their sound signature it's just as valid.

 there's really only one way to find an answer to your question:
 try and judge for yourself. i would purchase in small quantities to
 test them and if you find one type you definitely prefer, then
 purchase in larger quantity if you desire. good luck.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've only tried rca and sylvania brands of the 6fd7. not much difference except
 the fatbottle of the rca seems to have a slightly sweeter tone than the slim
 bottle version. (10+ hrs. of burn-in is recommended for best sound.)

 the 5v4ga is thicker sounding to me compared to the 5v4g. the latter sounds
 a bit more transparent and a bit more open at the top. great for senn cans
 but slightly unfocused with gs1000 and d5000. it could just be that the 5v4g is
 much more burnt-in than the 5v4ga that i have... both were "NOS" when i 
 purchased but i've no way of verifying this.

 the 5r4ga is similar as above, in that it too sounds "thicker" in the mid to 
 sub-bass region and less transparent than the 5r4gy, especially the brimar 
 version.

 there's nothing bad about 5u4g... i just find most of the usa brands to sound 
 uncontrolled at the bottom. the roundbase english versions seems to sound
 more controlled though, but much more expensive... may not be worth it
 especially if you like the common 5u4g sound signature.

 again, this is with units that have john's pdps modification... i forget how the
 stock wa6 sounded..._

 

Thanks again takezo


----------



## mshimao

I have a quick question about the drive/power tubes. Does it matter if these are "matched" or not? Thanks!


----------



## musicmind

From what takezo wrote earlier, the two "6de7" output tubes do not have to be matched in the WA6(SE).


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, i have clear top 6ew7 and they're fine. the 6fd7 is preferable;
 i won't say "better" since i can only speak for myself, but it has
 mid and sub bass that is preferable than what the 6ew7, clear top or
 otherwise, presents. but you should judge for yourself and not
 rely on my limited impressions. the 6fd7 are similar or lower in price
 than the 6ew7 so it may be worth while to experiment._

 

I now have the fat bottle RCA 6fd7 tubes. They are definitely better than the cleartop GE 6ew7 tubes. Great bass, wide soundstage and lots of air between the instruments. Definitely will be a favourite tube in the WA6SE. They are an improvement over the RCA thin 6ew7 tubes too as they sound more defined with a more airy sound.

 Just one problem. The GE 6ew7 and RCA 6ew7 are dead silent, even with the volume turned up to max and the music paused. The 6fd7 have some backgound static with the volume turned all the way up (that faint ssshhhhhh sound). They are not black and silent like the other tubes.

 Has anyone else found this with the 6fd7 tubes?

 Simon


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now have the fat bottle RCA 6fd7 tubes. They are definitely better than the cleartop GE 6ew7 tubes. Great bass, wide soundstage and lots of air between the instruments. Definitely will be a favourite tube in the WA6SE. They are an improvement over the RCA thin 6ew7 tubes too as they sound more defined with a more airy sound.

 Just one problem. The GE 6ew7 and RCA 6ew7 are dead silent, even with the volume turned up to max and the music paused. The 6fd7 have some backgound static with the volume turned all the way up (that faint ssshhhhhh sound). They are not black and silent like the other tubes.

 Has anyone else found this with the 6fd7 tubes?

 Simon_

 

Likely the result of their much higher "mu" / gain. Not likely a problem with the tube. Jack indicated they could have a higher noise level, but that it should not be noticeable at normal volume levels.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Likely the result of their much higher "mu" / gain. Not likely a problem with the tube. Jack indicated they could have a higher noise level, but that it should not be noticeable at normal volume levels._

 

Definitely not noticeable at normal levels. A good tube


----------



## jamato8

On my 6 with wall the modifications I actually notice a lower noise floor when using the 6FD7. I am not sure yet if it is my cup o tea but time will tell and I have noticed some changes of the tube as I burn it in (about 10 hours). The mids are more prominent and I do like the Open sound of the tube. Also, I have much, much more gain now, which is welcome with my low output dac of only 1.5 volts.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I now have the fat bottle RCA 6fd7 tubes. They are definitely better than the cleartop GE 6ew7 tubes. Great bass, wide soundstage and lots of air between the instruments. Definitely will be a favourite tube in the WA6SE. They are an improvement over the RCA thin 6ew7 tubes too as they sound more defined with a more airy sound.

 Just one problem. The GE 6ew7 and RCA 6ew7 are dead silent, even with the volume turned up to max and the music paused. The 6fd7 have some backgound static with the volume turned all the way up (that faint ssshhhhhh sound). They are not black and silent like the other tubes.

 Has anyone else found this with the 6fd7 tubes?

 Simon_

 

i've noticed the same as well on the wa6SE. using a 6fd7, 6dr7 or 6cy7, the
 volume range for normal listening is reduced to 7 o'clock position to 9 o'clock
 for my senn hp. and 8 o'clock to 11 o'clock for the denon d5000. 
 these output tubes do give a faint hiss noise after 12 o'clock position on the
 wa6SE (with the senns) but no noise that i can detect on the highly modified
 wa6. this is with a relatively high output voltage from my source of 2.25vrms.

 for the wa6SE users, i think using the low impedance jack is recommended
 with these output tubes; it'll lower the hissing past noon position, which is
 too loud for normal listening anyway, imo (it's louder than a rock concert venue).

 these amps sound so good after a 2hr. warm up period with these output
 tubes. the rca sounds thicker and lusher in the mids, whereas the sylvania
 and raytheons sound more neutral and thin, generally speaking.

 with some socket adapters i think i can make use of 4 or 5 other output 
 duo-triode tubes that have similar electronics but differently arranged
 pin-outs. will work on these in the upcoming months.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've noticed the same as well on the wa6SE. using a 6fd7, 6dr7 or 6cy7, the
 volume range for normal listening is reduced to 7 o'clock position to 9 o'clock
 for my senn hp. and 8 o'clock to 11 o'clock for the denon d5000. 
 these output tubes do give a faint hiss noise after 12 o'clock position on the
 wa6SE (with the senns) but no noise that i can detect on the highly modified
 wa6. this is with a relatively high output voltage from my source of 2.25vrms.

 for the wa6SE users, i think using the low impedance jack is recommended
 with these output tubes; it'll lower the hissing past noon position, which is
 too loud for normal listening anyway, imo (it's louder than a rock concert venue).

 these amps sound so good after a 2hr. warm up period with these output
 tubes. the rca sounds thicker and lusher in the mids, whereas the sylvania
 and raytheons sound more neutral and thin, generally speaking.

 with some socket adapters i think i can make use of 4 or 5 other output 
 duo-triode tubes that have similar electronics but differently arranged
 pin-outs. will work on these in the upcoming months._

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm glad it is not just me. I find that 7-8 o'clock is plenty loud enough with these 6fd7 tubes. 12 o'clock would be ear-splitting


----------



## AntiGeek

I did not like either the GE fat 6FD7 tubes nor the slim RCA 6FD7 tubes in my maxxed wa6se.

 To my ears, the fat GE 6EW7 were far sweeter sounding through my K701 cans and made far better use of the volume range of the Dact attenuator.

 Simply put, the 6FD7 tubes had far too much gain for the K701s and things started to get pretty loud by the third "click" of the volume dial. 

 Also found the slim RCA 6FD7s (although fairly sweet sounding) to be totally lacking in dynamics. Not yet tried the fat RCA varients which arrived yesterday morning.

 The supplied GE 6EW7 and ECG Philips 5R4GYB rectifier (anyone else got one of these?) seem to synergise with the k701 cans perfectly through the low impendance jack on the 6se. 

 I am just wondering is upgrading the rectifier to an expensive Sophia Princess or EML is likely to provide an increase in performance, especially as there does not seem to be much info available on the ECG Philips 5R4GYB?

 Seems like quite a good tube and is better sounding than the Sylvania 5R4GYB tube I brought off Ebay.

 Many thanks


----------



## jamato8

After using the 6FD7 for a while and getting enough hours on them I went back to the 6DE7 and as noted above, I can hear better dynamics with the 6DE7 and just prefer the sound.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 ...Simply put, the 6FD7 tubes had far too much gain for the K701s and things started to get pretty loud by the third "click" of the volume dial. 

 ...I am just wondering is upgrading the rectifier to an expensive Sophia Princess or EML is likely to provide an increase in performance, especially as there does not seem to be much info available on the ECG Philips 5R4GYB?

 Seems like quite a good tube and is better sounding than the Sylvania 5R4GYB tube I brought off Ebay.

 Many thanks





_

 

yikes... anyone with the dact volume knob will have issues with these high
 gain output tubes... moving just a millimeter with the standard potentiometer
 is a big difference in volume... you just wouldn't have much leeway to find
 that sweet spot with a dact click volume...

 the ecg philips 5r4gyb is just a sylvania rebrand... philips bought out sylvania,
 as well as others, in the mid 70's... ECG was Sylvania's name for their large
 semi-conductor replacement series. They expanded it to cover tubes and
 other replacement parts.


----------



## jamato8

Almost all of the 70's stuff and any of the last bit of production in the 80's was all mixed up. You never really knew who was making the tube and quality really bit the dust, even on the last bit of the WE tubes, which were among the best. 

 I use the Goldpoint attenuator and have no problem.


----------



## AntiGeek

Yeah, I thought that the Dact stepped attenuator was going to be a real issue seeing as its only got 23 steps. As it turns out, with normal gain tubes and k701 cans, only having 23 steps has not really been much of an issue especially with most decently recorded and vaguely dynamic music.

 What causes problems and misses "the sweet spot" every time is badly engineered recordings ie. Iron Maiden CDs. Its either too loud or too quiet..

 Good to know that the ECG is actually a rebranded Sylvania. It should mean that the sound can get only better when a more expensive 274b tube is installed.

 Many thanks


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After using the 6FD7 for a while and getting enough hours on them I went back to the 6DE7 and as noted above, I can hear better dynamics with the 6DE7 and just prefer the sound._

 

Your WA6 is a bit more modded than a WA6 maxxed though, so perhaps it is all adding to the different experience.


----------



## ambrosecarr

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yikes... anyone with the dact volume knob will have issues with these high
 gain output tubes... moving just a millimeter with the standard potentiometer
 is a big difference in volume... you just wouldn't have much leeway to find
 that sweet spot with a dact click volume...

 the ecg philips 5r4gyb is just a sylvania rebrand... philips bought out sylvania,
 as well as others, in the mid 70's... ECG was Sylvania's name for their large
 semi-conductor replacement series. They expanded it to cover tubes and
 other replacement parts._

 

So, I've finally read through the full thread, and it sounds like there are some varied opinions on tubes, and the favorites have changed with time. For someone listening mostly to classic/acoustic rock, which trio of input/output tubes would you suggest for someone with a Woo 6SE, for whom budget is important?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ambrosecarr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, I've finally read through the full thread, and it sounds like there are some varied opinions on tubes, and the favorites have changed with time. For someone listening mostly to classic/acoustic rock, which trio of input/output tubes would you suggest for someone with a Woo 6SE, for whom budget is important?_

 

it's only natural people's opinion vary with tube preference...
 among the output tubes, the 6de7, 6cy7 and 6dr7 have very good dynamics
 and impact. whereas the 6ew7, 6fd7 and 6da7a have a more tubey diffused
 dynamics with a bloomy/fat tone, but still offers better inner resolution and
 larger soundstage overall, imo. good news is they're relatively cheap at about
 $4 a piece. for your wa6SE, i'd recommend you get them in pairs that is 
 relatively close in transductance, or matched within 10% of each other at
 operating voltage of 200volts. having a bigger discrepancy may introduce
 left and right volume difference.

 for rock/acoutic rock music i enjoy the 6de7 or 6cy7 with gz30 or gz34... 
 but if you can afford it, the 274b is tops among the rectifiers.

 the best thing about tubes is you can tube roll to find which combo you 
 enjoy best. good luck and hope you don't spend too much on tubes.


----------



## AntiGeek

I'm loving the fat bottle GE 6EW7 tubes that Jack sent with my 6SE.

 For classical music, and rock such as Pink Floyd, The Doors, Dire Straits, etc.. they are absolutly perfect. Great dynamics. Really nice 3d headstage. Very nice expansive freq range (especially mids & treble). Very high resolution and transparant sounding. 

 Really good value and available from WooAudio at only $20 for a matched pair.

 Not yet played around with changing the rectifier tube.


----------



## ambrosecarr

Thanks for the response Takezo. I've been hunting around to see if I could find something which was a little less expensive than the Princess tube, so maybe I'll give the gz30 or gz34 a try. I could probably swing the 274b, but we'll see.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I haven't touched my tubes since I got the Sophia Princess 274b in September (with RCA 6DE7 in May). No sense fixing what aint broke.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm loving the fat bottle GE 6EW7 tubes that Jack sent with my 6SE.

 For classical music, and rock such as Pink Floyd, The Doors, Dire Straits, etc.. they are absolutly perfect. Great dynamics. Really nice 3d headstage. Very nice expansive freq range (especially mids & treble). Very high resolution and transparant sounding. 

 Really good value and available from WooAudio at only $20 for a matched pair.

 Not yet played around with changing the rectifier tube.




_

 


 Jack didn't say he matched the pairs when I asked as he said matching was not necessary. Did he definitely say he matches the tubes?


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't touched my tubes since I got the Sophia Princess 274b in September (with RCA 6DE7 in May). No sense fixing what aint broke._

 

x2

 I listen to classic rock and alternative. This is the best combination of tubes that I have heard in my WA6SE. I love the dynamics and tight bass with my Denons.

 Ambrosecarr: In addition to takezo's recommendations, you could try to find a 1940's or early 50's RCA 5V4G on eBay. This rectifier does a nice imitation of the Princess for $15-$20 and sounds really good on classic rock (solid bass and a nice warmth on the mids and vocals). I bought one based on takezo's advice and it is my second favorite rectifier now. However, buying the Sophia Princess now will end your search and save you money in the long run unless you just want to have a collection of backup rectifiers like me.


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack didn't say he matched the pairs when I asked as he said matching was not necessary. Did he definitely say he matches the tubes?_

 

Yes. On the bottom of the the 6SE page under the options section it says this:

 "Drive/Power tube replacement:
 1 matched pair 6EW7 $20 (2 pcs)

 Clear top, big bottle. Buy and ship independently. 6EW7 is a direct replacement for a 6DE7."


----------



## atbglenn

I don't think it matters if they're matched or not. As long as they are the same brand, from the same vintage. I bought 4 RCA 6DE7's from tubedepot.com awhile back and I highly doubt if they are matched. I cant detect any imbalance whatsoever.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. On the bottom of the the 6SE page under the options section it says this:

 "Drive/Power tube replacement:
 1 matched pair 6EW7 $20 (2 pcs)

 Clear top, big bottle. Buy and ship independently. 6EW7 is a direct replacement for a 6DE7."_

 

Thanks. Perhaps I should read things first


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think it matters if they're matched or not. As long as they are the same brand, from the same vintage. I bought 4 RCA 6DE7's from tubedepot.com awhile back and I highly doubt if they are matched. I cant detect any imbalance whatsoever._

 

the pair doesn't have to be matched very closely, but i have found some
 volume discrepancy between pairs with more than 20% difference in 
 transconductance using the tv7 d/u. for example 75/48 and 56/36 for a 6de7.
 (using a bias probe and multimeter is much more exact since you'd be getting
 reading at the amp's operating voltage...) the volume difference wasn't very
 great but it is noticeable and can be somewhat annoying.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the pair doesn't have to be matched very closely, but i have found some
 volume discrepancy between pairs with more than 20% difference in 
 transconductance using the tv7 d/u. for example 75/48 and 56/36 for a 6de7.
 (using a bias probe and multimeter is much more exact since you'd be getting
 reading at the amp's operating voltage...) the volume difference wasn't very
 great but it is noticeable and can be somewhat annoying._

 

I haven't noticed any imbalance the pairs that I own. I guess I got lucky, or my hearing is not as sensitive as yours in that respect.


----------



## tin man

This has been a very informative thread. Thanks to everyone for educating me about the two Woo6 amps and all of the possibilities.

 A couple of questions if I may. How long is the umbilical cable from the PS rectifier unit to the 6EW7 unit? And does it help to physically separate the two sections, or can they sit side by side without any difference in noise/hum from the large power supply unit?

 Thanks again for such an inspiring thread. Maybe if I get a tax refund this year . . . . . .


----------



## sclamb

The umbilical is about 8 or 9 inches long so the units have to sit side by side.


----------



## tin man

Thank you sclamb!


----------



## AntiGeek

Some quick, dusty snaps. Not used my camera for a while so I decided to test to see if still working.

 Rear shot shows second inputs and switch removed from mine for cleaner signal path (by Jack Wu on my request).

 The serial number is : S1108025. I assume this is numbered after its order or completion date 25/11/08??


----------



## tin man

Very nice AntiGeek.

 This thread is killing me . . . . must . . . . . refrain . . . . . . from spending . . . . . .


----------



## Torero

My initial impressions with the RCA fat bottle 6FD7 are:

 - Better soundstage.
 - Much better instrument separation and air.

 I like!!


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tin man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice AntiGeek.

 This thread is killing me . . . . must . . . . . refrain . . . . . . from spending . . . . . . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Resistance is futile!!

 Sounds even better than it looks..


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My initial impressions with the RCA fat bottle 6FD7 are:

 - Better soundstage.
 - Much better instrument separation and air.

 I like!!_

 

What tubes were you using before the RCA 6FD7s?

 I Also have some of these RCA fat bottle 6FD7 tubes.

 Not yet tried them, though the thin RCA version does sound very good. Too much gain with the k701s through the 6se though. Perhaps the power output is slightly higher through the SE.


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What tubes were you using before the RCA 6FD7s?_

 

Before the 6fd7 i had used these tubes:

 RCA 6DE7
 RCA fat bottle 6EW7
 SYLVANIA fat bottle 6EW7
 GE clear-top 6EW7
 RCA thin bottle 6EW7

 IMHO, the best are GE and RCA thin bottle 6EW7's.

 Now, the RCA 6fd7 are still burning. But my first impresions are very positive.

 Coming soon: the GE clear-top 6FD7


----------



## AntiGeek

Yeah, the GE 6EW7's are excellent tubes and seem to match the K701s perfectly. What I like most is the excellent treble / mids. On the start of almost any track of any CD recording, I can hear the background recording hiss (any anything else going on!!) prior to music starting. Really noticeble in recordings such as Nirvana "Unplugged in New York", one of my favourate "reference" recordings. 

 Another positive of these tubes is the deep 3d headstage. Makes excellently produced / engineered albums like Roger Waters "Amused to death" sound almost scary..


----------



## Raylinds

A very well written and thoughtful review and an interesting thread. Thanks everyone for the great info.


----------



## Orcin

Thank you, Raylinds! A lot of people have contributed information to this thread, and it has become a great resource about these amps.

 I am still very happy with my amp. I am thinking a lot lately about how nicely it could drive a pair of high-end phones. Say maybe... HD800's for example.


----------



## atbglenn

I have mine since last May, and I'm still in love with it. Great Amp!


----------



## jamato8

After my latest addition of the teflon caps I have to add that I can continue to hear refinements. Very, Very airy and natural with tremendous decay and initial attach.


----------



## AntiGeek

Just tried a NOS RCA JAN 5V4G rectifier tube in my WA6se. Having given it a good 6hrs to get itself sorted, I had high hopes for this tube especially as it glows far more nicely than the ECG Philips / Sylvania 5r4gyb tube it replaced.

 With the original ECG 5r4gyb tube and GE fat bottled 6ew7 tubes and K701 cans, the sound to me is absolutly perfect being fast, dynamic, transparent, highly detailed with a 3d headstage. Great for all types of music from classical to metal to trance (and everything between).

 To my horror, this new RCA JAN 5V4G tube does not sound like it synergises particularly well with the GE fat bottles or k701 cans. The sound became soft and tubey, greatly reducing both dynamics, details and headstage. Too rich and slow!

 It would appear that the 6se is a totally different beast to the 6 as far as rectification tubes go. What suits one might not suit the other..


----------



## Orcin

I have a 1948 RCA 5V4G. I agree that it is not fast or transparent. I like it a lot with my D2000's and paired with 6DE7 power tubes. I don't like it so much with my HD600's and Sylvania fat bottle 6EW7's. I think you would like it better paired with a more dynamic power tube set, but it probably isn't the best match for your K701's. However, it probably has the deepest bass of any of my non-Princess rectifiers so I am keeping it around. It does glow really nice!


----------



## AntiGeek

Hi Orcin

 Yes. I think I shall be keeping the combo of the GE 6ew7s and the ECG 5r4gyb. They really seem to work some magic on the k701s. I would imagine though that the combo would be really lean and bright with any Grado cans. 

 Stangely enough the other branded Sylvania 5r4gyb NOS tube I have though appearing to be similar in construction to the ECG, sounds nowhere close to it in performance. It is nowwhere near as transparent or engaging. 

 When put side by side, the ECG tube has a longer glass envelope, internals and larger brown base to the Sylvania.


----------



## takezo

i've made a couple of adapters for the output sections of the wa6/wa6SE for
 the 6CS7 and 6FQ7/6CG7/6GU7. they both have a tubey characteristic that's
 closer to the 6EW7 than the 6DE7: the 6CS7 has a mu factor of 17 and the 
 6FQ7 is 20, closer to the 6DE7 and 6EW7 of 17.5.

 the 6CS7 is very fine but exhibits some humming that is not found in any of my
 other output tubes... maybe it's just this pair i've been playing around with...
 the 6FQ7 is giving me something the sp mpx3 slam se use to give me... a very
 tubey, diffused, glowing, laid-back, euphonic sound. the decay is wonderful in
 that tubey sense though darker/slower in the transients. the gz30 with a pair
 of 6FQ7 is 99.9% of the sound i got out of the mpx3 slam se with jenson caps.
 the 6FQ7 seems to be exceptionally quiet yet bloomy galore...

 the 6CS7 is exceptional for acoustic guitar... great sound. i'd have to say the 6FQ7
 is the tubeiest sounding output pair i have for the wa6/wa6SE. yes, more tubey
 than the 6EW7. very linear and transparent as well. i like...

 here's a pic:


----------



## jamato8

What are the voltages? The current draw of the 6FQ7, which is a small bottle 6SN7 type, is less than the power section of the 6ED7 so the voltage should be a fair bit higher.


----------



## takezo

i'm getting 218v at pin 1, 57v at pin 4, 63v pin5, 60v at pin 6.
 the 6fq7 is so quiet and smooth sounding. i really like this tube
 for the output section.


----------



## AntiGeek

Very nice. Whats involved in making the adaptors ie. Do they contain any resistors or other components?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very nice. Whats involved in making the adaptors ie. Do they contain any resistors or other components?_

 

nothing involved except re-wiring of the pin layout. there's only one pin 
 difference between the 6FQ7 and the 6DE7. no resistors or any other comps.
 you just need a pair of 9-pin sockets, 9 male-part pins per each socket,
 solder iron, cardas solder, 1/4 inch shrink tube and some time.


----------



## atbglenn

takezo,

 I love the way the heater crosses over from one section to the other on your 6CS7. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nice!


----------



## booboohihi

Thanks for your impressions


----------



## Torero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 6fq7 is so quiet and smooth sounding. i really like this tube
 for the output section._

 

First, Thanks for your very good contributions.
 Now, I'm using the 6FD7 and they sound very quiet and smooth too. Can you make a comparison between the two of them ? ( 6FD7 VS 6FQ7 )


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First, Thanks for your very good contributions.
 Now, I'm using the 6FD7 and they sound very quiet and smooth too. Can you make a comparison between the two of them ? ( 6FD7 VS 6FQ7 )_

 

sorry for any confusion my statement may've created.
 both are deathly low noise and very fine tube types... the 6FQ7 seems to have
 very good balance of bass, mid and treble but soundstage is a little smaller
 than the 6FD7, more similar to the 6DE7.


----------



## Torero

Do you prefer this 6FQ7 that the 6FD7? Now, is this your favorite?


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you prefer this 6FQ7 that the 6FD7? Now, is this your favorite?_

 

i don't have a "favorite"... i like several of the output types, like the 6EW7,
 6FD7, 6CY7, 6GU7, and the 6FQ7. (the last two needs an adapter)


----------



## Torero

With this adapter (6SN7 --> 6FQ7/6CG7):

Adapter ECC32 6SN7 TO 6CG7 tubes SUB - eBay (item 250353492204 end time Feb-05-09 18:08:58 PST)






 and takezo adapter (6FQ7/6CG7 --> 6DE7)


 Is it possible to use the 6SN7GT ? Is it compatible?

 Excuse my ignorance.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to use the 6SN7GT ? Is it compatible?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mail from Jack at Woo audio* 
_....The 6SN7 is a driver tube which cannot be used on the WA6's design...._

 

So there you have it


----------



## takezo

yes, one can use the 6sn7 tube on the wa6 and wa6SE... with
 heavy pin layout modifications. you can use the adapter in the pic
 but you'd need to take it apart and rearrange the pin connections.

 left layout is the 6de7 and the right is the 6sn7


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, one can use the 6sn7 tube on the wa6 and wa6SE... with
 heavy pin layout modifications. you can use the adapter in the pic
 but you'd need to take it apart and rearrange the pin connections.

 left layout is the 6de7 and the right is the 6sn7




_

 

When I mailed Woo audio about modifying the WA6 to use the 6sn7 tubes, he said that it could not be done. It could be done on the WA3/3+ and WA2, but not WA6

 But I guess everything is possible, it just depend on how much you are willing to change.


----------



## WalkGood

Orcin, Nice review and a pleasant read, I couldn’t agree more with you on the Sophia Princess Rectifier ^_^


----------



## jamato8

It wouldn't be my first choice for a few reasons but if the 6FQ7 is being used, then electrically, if wired correctly but not with the adapter above, it will work.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *paara* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I mailed Woo audio about modifying the WA6 to use the 6sn7 tubes, he said that it could not be done. It could be done on the WA3/3+ and WA2, but not WA6

 But I guess everything is possible, it just depend on how much you are willing to change._

 

electrically there doesn't seem to be any problems. both operate at 6.3v and
 the 6de7 draws .9A, whereas the 6sn7 draws .6A. maximum plate voltage tolerable
 is 275v and 300v respectively; both are within specs of the wa6/wa6SE.
 as you can see, every pin of the eight on the 6sn7 differs from the arrangement
 of the 6de7... which means one will have to re-arrange each of the eight from
 the octal type of the 6sn7 to a 9-pin socket layout. it's time consuming and
 may not be worth doing since the 6FQ7 and 6CG7 are small bottle versions of
 the 6sn7. (the adapter for the 6FQ7/6CG7 is much easier, as only one pin is
 arranged differently) but if you already have a great collection of 6sn7 and want
 to see how they sound thru the wa6/wa6SE it may be a fun project. finding
 a housing which will accomodate the larger octal socket and the smaller 9-pin
 socket may be time-consuming too. using plumbing pvc or copper reducing
 couplings may do the job... or get the adapter in the pic at top and take it
 apart to rearrange the pin connections to go from 6sn7 to 6de7.


----------



## jamato8

I used to make adapters to go from different 9 pin tube to octals etc. It takes a little while and once you get it down you can make some very nice looking adapters but I think there would be some better choices for the power requirements than the 6SN7.


----------



## takezo

hi john, is there any other that you'd recommend over the 6sn7?
 if it sounds anything like the 6fq7, i'd be pleased. very smooth and
 open sound... though not dynamic like the 6de7 or the 6cy7.


----------



## paara

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_electrically there doesn't seem to be any problems. both operate at 6.3v and
 the 6de7 draws .9A, whereas the 6sn7 draws .6A. maximum plate voltage tolerable
 is 275v and 300v respectively; both are within specs of the wa6/wa6SE.
 as you can see, every pin of the eight on the 6sn7 differs from the arrangement
 of the 6de7... which means one will have to re-arrange each of the eight from
 the octal type of the 6sn7 to a 9-pin socket layout. it's time consuming and
 may not be worth doing since the 6FQ7 and 6CG7 are small bottle versions of
 the 6sn7. (the adapter for the 6FQ7/6CG7 is much easier, as only one pin is
 arranged differently) but if you already have a great collection of 6sn7 and want
 to see how they sound thru the wa6/wa6SE it may be a fun project. finding
 a housing which will accomodate the larger octal socket and the smaller 9-pin
 socket may be time-consuming too. using plumbing pvc or copper reducing
 couplings may do the job... or get the adapter in the pic at top and take it
 apart to rearrange the pin connections to go from 6sn7 to 6de7._

 

Thank you for that reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 very helpful


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi john, is there any other that you'd recommend over the 6sn7?
 if it sounds anything like the 6fq7, i'd be pleased. very smooth and
 open sound... though not dynamic like the 6de7 or the 6cy7._

 


 It won't be dynamic because you are getting a mismatch on the impedance of the tube. The 6DE7 has the output section with a different output impedance and the output transformers are designed for that. The 6DE7 is also going to put out more power, which is what you are hearing. 

 I haven't investigated at all. Since there were so many thousands of different types of tubes made I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't more but as time goes by, more and more of the less than desirable tubes, due to little use, are being used for landfill, so they are hard to find. 

 Frankly I would do more in playing with the voltages than more tubes. I would run the 6DE7 harder, though it wouldn't last as long, I bet it might sound even better. It is run at some pretty low voltages but the transformer in the 6's only put out 200 to 230 or so in the SE. Now it might be interesting to go ahead and raise the voltage on the first section but then you have to be concerned with the plate resistance and having two low a a resistance in the dropping resistor so that is where having more voltage to begin with really helps, you can still use a 68K and maybe have 130 volts on that first section rather than 65 or so. It would increase the dynamics, both macro and micro. There are some other things I would do and I thought about just dropping another transformer into the 6 but no real time.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It won't be dynamic because you are getting a mismatch on the impedance of the tube. The 6DE7 has the output section with a different output impedance and the output transformers are designed for that. The 6DE7 is also going to put out more power, which is what you are hearing. 

 I haven't investigated at all. Since there were so many thousands of different types of tubes made I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't more but as time goes by, more and more of the less than desirable tubes, due to little use, are being used for landfill, so they are hard to find. 

 Frankly I would do more in playing with the voltages than more tubes. I would run the 6DE7 harder, though it wouldn't last as long, I bet it might sound even better. It is run at some pretty low voltages but the transformer in the 6's only put out 200 to 230 or so in the SE. Now it might be interesting to go ahead and raise the voltage on the first section but then you have to be concerned with the plate resistance and having two low a a resistance in the dropping resistor so that is where having more voltage to begin with really helps, you can still use a 68K and maybe have 130 volts on that first section rather than 65 or so. It would increase the dynamics, both macro and micro. There are some other things I would do and I thought about just dropping another transformer into the 6 but no real time._

 

the impedance mismatch doesn't seem to affect the openness and soundstage
 of the 6fq7... the left to right soundstage seems larger than the 6de7...
 there's better clarity of the sound too, leading to a very open sound. while
 the 6de7 seems to have a u-shaped freq. characteristics, the 6fq7 has a
 more linear characteristics...less dynamic but everything just sounds right.
 i can see how this may sound boring and flat, but with classical and acoustic
 jazz it really brings out the nuance of timbre and texture, as well as a larger
 soundstage.

 it would be interesting to pop in a toroidal power transformer rated at 300va
 but it'd be leading to a bigger job than experimenting with simple adapters
 and tubes... for now...


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the impedance mismatch doesn't seem to affect the openness and soundstage
 of the 6fq7... the left to right soundstage seems larger than the 6de7...
 there's better clarity of the sound too, leading to a very open sound. while
 the 6de7 seems to have a u-shaped freq. characteristics, the 6fq7 has a
 more linear characteristics...less dynamic but everything just sounds right.
 i can see how this may sound boring and flat, but with classical and acoustic
 jazz it really brings out the nuance of timbre and texture, as well as a larger
 soundstage.

 it would be interesting to pop in a toroidal power transformer rated at 300va
 but it'd be leading to a bigger job than experimenting with simple adapters
 and tubes... for now...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great, I am glad to read that the tube sounds fine. That is what it is all about. If it sounds that good then it would be fun to try some nice 6SN7's like the '52 Sylvania or a nice 1940's black glass Tung-sol. Well there are many. And then there are the loctals.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Before the 6fd7 i had used these tubes:

 RCA 6DE7
 RCA fat bottle 6EW7
 SYLVANIA fat bottle 6EW7
 GE clear-top 6EW7
 RCA thin bottle 6EW7

 IMHO, the best are GE and RCA thin bottle 6EW7's.

 Now, the RCA 6fd7 are still burning. But my first impresions are very positive.

 Coming soon: the GE clear-top 6FD7_

 

Finally, got to try the RCA Fat Bottle 6FD7 tubes in my SE Maxed with my Philco 5U4GB, at the moment. 

 My first impressions are consistent with what some of you have reported... they seem to be a bit of a cross between the 6DE7s and 6EW7s - with exceptional bass and treble extension, and pretty good PRAT and impact, though not to the extent of the 6DE7s (especially the Tung Sols). They seem to have a bit greater detail and texture, expecially in the bass. The mids are a bit less prominent and rich, and the upper mids and highs seem a bit more emphasized relative to the lower mids. 

 The soundstage is far more airy with greater ambience than the 6DE7s, more like the 6EW7s, but even greater - almost to the extent of being too emphasized, and almost artificial like the reverb, and ambience produced by a sound processor. This may be fine for classical music in halls, and larger venues... but... it may be a bit excessive for more intimate venues like jazz clubs, etc. I think I prefer the richer, bolder sounds of the Tung Sol 6DE7s and similar tubes, for jazz clubs, R&B, and intimate vocals.

 But... if you like a big, open, airy, more diffuse sound, you'll like the RCA 6FD7s.

 Of course, as previously noted, they have about 10-15% more "practical gain" (9 O'clock vs 10-11 O'clock for the same volume), though their MU is much greater... but... don't seem to have a any noticeable noise at reasonable volume levels.

 I still think I prefer the 6DE7s for the music I listen to most - to the 6FD7s, or 6EW7s, which both seem to be much more airy and diffuse. 

 But... we'll see...


----------



## Gradofan2

Also... I've got a question...

 The RCA 6FD7 Fat Bottle tubes have rather short pins, the combo of which allows the tubes to contact the socket mounting screw tips, preventing the from seating very securely in the sockets. I have not had this issue with the fat bottle 6EW7s - possibly their pins are longer, allowing the to seat better. 

 What's the best way to resolve this issue? 

 Should I grind off the screw tips a bit, or should I have Jack send me some replacement screws, which do not extend as far (or, possibly try to find some at a hardware store? Has anyone any experience with resolving this issue? 

 I'm a bit concerned about grinding off the screw tips that I might get metal particles caught in the sockets, or circuits in some manner causing a short. Though, I guess I could protect the sockets with tape, and brush / vacuum the amp well.

 Any thoughts?


----------



## atbglenn

Same issue here with GE Fat Bottle 6EW7's I have. the pins are shorter than my Sylvania's, and fit too loosely due to the screw tips. I haven't done anything about it yet.


----------



## takezo

filing without taking the screws out may cause more of a mess than
 you'd want... if possible, take the screws out one at a time, if 
 you don't want things falling apart on you, and cut the ends with
 a cutting plier and screw it back on... continuing until you've gone
 thru all four screws. if you don't want to go thru the hassle, just
 use a diagonal cutting plier and go snip the protuding ends from
 the top side. the cut piece may jump into the chassis, so take
 care to remove it once done. good luck.


----------



## jamato8

Actually I thought of something that I would do if not so busy. I would mount the sockets on the top side of the inner plate. Then you could any tube, fat or narrow even with the early model 6 non SE.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally, got to try the RCA Fat Bottle 6FD7 tubes in my SE Maxed with my Philco 5U4GB, at the moment. 

 My first impressions are consistent with what some of you have reported... they seem to be a bit of a cross between the 6DE7s and 6EW7s - with exceptional bass and treble extension, and pretty good PRAT and impact, though not to the extent of the 6DE7s (especially the Tung Sols). They seem to have a bit greater detail and texture, expecially in the bass. The mids are a bit less prominent and rich, and the upper mids and highs seem a bit more emphasized relative to the lower mids. 

 The soundstage is far more airy with greater ambience than the 6DE7s, more like the 6EW7s, but even greater - almost to the extent of being too emphasized, and almost artificial like the reverb, and ambience produced by a sound processor. This may be fine for classical music in halls, and larger venues... but... it may be a bit excessive for more intimate venues like jazz clubs, etc. I think I prefer the richer, bolder sounds of the Tung Sol 6DE7s and similar tubes, for jazz clubs, R&B, and intimate vocals.

 But... if you like a big, open, airy, more diffuse sound, you'll like the RCA 6FD7s.

 Of course, as previously noted, they have about 10-15% more "practical gain" (9 O'clock vs 10-11 O'clock for the same volume), though their MU is much greater... but... don't seem to have a any noticeable noise at reasonable volume levels.

 I still think I prefer the 6DE7s for the music I listen to most - to the 6FD7s, or 6EW7s, which both seem to be much more airy and diffuse. 

 But... we'll see..._

 

The 6FD7s do grow on you... after a while of listening to them.


----------



## auee

Gentleman, I am undecided between the Woo 6 and the Woo 6SE because of the various modifications. From my reading, there does not appear to be any disagreement that whichever version is selected the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier is a must addition. The rest is very confusing to me as I am rebuilding a system and my discretionary funds must be used very efficiently.

 I cannot tell from the post which of the other modifications are considered almost necessary to get the most from the amps. Particularly, I have not seen opinions about the improvement made by adding the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator.

 The bottom line is if I order the Woo 6 which of the mods will bring about the most improvement? Which will bring it to or near the performance of the 6SE or is this not possible? Should I order the 6SE with no mods but the Sophia tube and have it modded later, when funds permit? I am just seeking to start off on the best possible foot. Thanks as always for your assistance.


----------



## Orcin

My approach would be:

 Funds available < $1000 = buy the WA6 plus Sophia plus PDPS mod (approx $850-900)

 Funds available > $1000 = buy the WA6SE (approx $1100 shipped) plus the Sophia now ($150) or later if you are short of funds

 I cannot offer a personal opinion on the attenuator and parts upgrades. However, I chose not to buy them because I considered them to be on the downside of the diminishing returns curve and I preferred to put the rest of my available funds into headphones.

 P.S. Takezo may be able to comment on the modded WA6 vs. stock WA6SE. I also cannot offer an opinion on that since I only heard stock units.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *auee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gentleman, I am undecided between the Woo 6 and the Woo 6SE because of the various modifications. From my reading, there does not appear to be any disagreement that whichever version is selected the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier is a must addition. The rest is very confusing to me as I am rebuilding a system and my discretionary funds must be used very efficiently.

 I cannot tell from the post which of the other modifications are considered almost necessary to get the most from the amps. Particularly, I have not seen opinions about the improvement made by adding the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator.

 The bottom line is if I order the Woo 6 which of the mods will bring about the most improvement? Which will bring it to or near the performance of the 6SE or is this not possible? Should I order the 6SE with no mods but the Sophia tube and have it modded later, when funds permit? I am just seeking to start off on the best possible foot. Thanks as always for your assistance._

 

If you get a Standard 6, get the Pseudo Dual Power Supply for the extra $110. Makes a really nice difference in clarity when the music gets intense. Plus the bass is tighter and deeper as well

 BTW, I love your avatar. I'm a classic rock freak and album "The Song Remains The Same" is one I play often including the first 3 Led Zep albums, I mean CD's


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Orcin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My approach would be:

 Funds available < $1000 = buy the WA6 plus Sophia plus PDPS mod (approx $850-900)

 Funds available > $1000 = buy the WA6SE (approx $1100 shipped) plus the Sophia now ($150) or later if you are short of funds

 I cannot offer a personal opinion on the attenuator and parts upgrades. However, I chose not to buy them because I considered them to be on the downside of the diminishing returns curve and I preferred to put the rest of my available funds into headphones.

 P.S. Takezo may be able to comment on the modded WA6 vs. stock WA6SE. I also cannot offer an opinion on that since I only heard stock units._

 

Ditto... I think...

 The WA6 SE has a bit more power to "man-handle" tough to drive phones - though, I'm sure the WA6 has plenty also.


----------



## auee

Thank you so much for the input. I hope to hear from Takezo before I place my order. And atbglenn, I listen to new stuff, but always return to the rock music of my youth.

 I was lucky enough to see Zeppelin at MSG. They came on about 2 hours late and played for about 3 hours. What a night.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *auee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gentleman, I am undecided between the Woo 6 and the Woo 6SE because of the various modifications. From my reading, there does not appear to be any disagreement that whichever version is selected the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier is a must addition. The rest is very confusing to me as I am rebuilding a system and my discretionary funds must be used very efficiently.

 I cannot tell from the post which of the other modifications are considered almost necessary to get the most from the amps. Particularly, I have not seen opinions about the improvement made by adding the DACT CT2 stepped attenuator.

 The bottom line is if I order the Woo 6 which of the mods will bring about the most improvement? Which will bring it to or near the performance of the 6SE or is this not possible? Should I order the 6SE with no mods but the Sophia tube and have it modded later, when funds permit? I am just seeking to start off on the best possible foot. Thanks as always for your assistance._

 

you're faced with a good question... wa6 modified or stock wa6SE... both
 will run you approx. $1050, especially if you opt for the full blackgates options
 for the wa6.

 *the blackgates offer better noise suppression and smoothing out the grains found
 in some tubes. it filters out ripples better than other brands, so i hear, leading to
 an open and transparent sound. but the stock caps are pretty darn good too.
 i'd get the blackgates if you can handle the budget but it's not a deal breaker imo.

 if budget is the determining factor in your purchase, i'd recommed the following:

 wa6 stock with the following; listed in order of importance:

 1) psuedo dual power supply modification. most important mod. imo.
 2) ask jack to put in 4 non-polar blackgate 470uf/16v caps in the bypass stage. 
 (don't know how much he charges for this)
 3) if budget allows, ask jack to put in two 0.15uf/1200v mundorf silver in oil
 capacitor for the input coupling stage, or two 0.15uf/600v auricap capacitor.
 (mundorf is about $60 for the pair; auricap around $40 per pair; v-cap is
 outstanding if you want accuracy and clarity but $150 per pair)
 4) the princess sophia is very nice but will cost you $150+...
 a good alternative will be the 5u4gb, gz30 or gz34. i won't say which is better
 since each tube can sound different... i have a dozen of the gz34 and almost
 all of them have slightly different sound signature. but, you'd always have
 the idea of owning the 274b in the back of your head... and probably end
 up buying one later anyway...

 *imo, the gz34 w/ pair of 6cy7 or 6dr7 output tubes will give you 95% of the 
 princess sophia and 6DE7. of course, the sophia w/ 6cy7 is even better imo.

 for output tubes:

 6DE7, 6CY7, 6DR7 offers best prat and impact
 6EW7, 6FD7 offers better sounstage and detail at the cost of losing some dynamics
 6FQ7, 6CG7, 6GU7 offers the tubeyist sound, ie. soft glowing diffused sonic signature
 at cost of soundstage, clarity and some dynamics.
 *sorry, i forgot to mention the last 3 needs an adapter. it will not function in the wa6
 without the adapter. you can ask jack to make you one but i've no idea how much
 he'd charge for the pair. if you're good with soldering and electronics you can make
 a pair yourself. it's not very difficult. you're welcome to ask if you need directions.

 i haven't experienced the dact in my wa6, but when i had the mpx3 slam se
 it had the 30 step dact... it didn't sound any better than my wa6 heavily
 modded nor the wa6SE stock, in terms of clarity, openness and focus.
 if the dact upgrade was moderate in price, like less than $100, i'd recommend
 trying it out. but at $215, it's hard to justify the purchase unless it's gives
 a significant sonic improvement. john, or jamato8, will give you a better idea
 of this upgrade.

 i hope this helps and haven't caused any additional confusion... good luck
 in your decisions.


----------



## auee

Takezo, your post was fantastic. Budget is a factor. I am always interested in finding the point of diminishing returns in my audio purchases. Things can get way out of hand otherwise for a small change, not necessarily improvement, in sound. Your advise with respect to prat, timing, is a major point of concern for me. I place timing and tonality above sound staging and imaging. If the timing is off, to me, the essence of the music is lost. Now I am equipped to speak with Mr. Wu, Jack to you guys, about building me an amp. If all goes well, it will be early next week. I am stoked. I have been listening to solid state audio equipment for over 30 years. Now I get a chance to hear what a fine tube amp headphone system is all about. From reading your posts, I am expecting a wonderful experience. Thanks again. I hope within the next months to be able to constructively contribute to the group.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you're faced with a good question... wa6 modified or stock wa6SE... both
 will run you approx. $1050, especially if you opt for the full blackgates options
 for the wa6.

 *the blackgates offer better noise suppression and smoothing out the grains found
 in some tubes. it filters out ripples better than other brands, so i hear, leading to
 an open and transparent sound. but the stock caps are pretty darn good too.
 i'd get the blackgates if you can handle the budget but it's not a deal breaker imo.

 if budget is the determining factor in your purchase, i'd recommed the following:

 wa6 stock with the following; listed in order of importance:

 1) psuedo dual power supply modification. most important mod. imo.
 2) ask jack to put in 4 non-polar blackgate 470uf/16v caps in the bypass stage. 
 (don't know how much he charges for this)
 3) if budget allows, ask jack to put in two 0.15uf/1200v mundorf silver in oil
 capacitor for the input coupling stage, or two 0.15uf/600v auricap capacitor.
 (mundorf is about $60 for the pair; auricap around $40 per pair; v-cap is
 outstanding if you want accuracy and clarity but $150 per pair)
 4) the princess sophia is very nice but will cost you $150+...
 a good alternative will be the 5u4gb, gz30 or gz34. i won't say which is better
 since each tube can sound different... i have a dozen of the gz34 and almost
 all of them have slightly different sound signature. but, you'd always have
 the idea of owning the 274b in the back of your head... and probably end
 up buying one later anyway...

 *imo, the gz34 w/ pair of 6cy7 or 6dr7 output tubes will give you 95% of the 
 princess sophia and 6DE7. of course, the sophia w/ 6cy7 is even better imo.

 for output tubes:

 6DE7, 6CY7, 6DR7 offers best prat and impact
 6EW7, 6FD7 offers better sounstage and detail at the cost of losing some dynamics
 6FQ7, 6CG7, 6GU7 offers the tubeyist sound, ie. soft glowing diffused sonic signature
 at cost of soundstage, clarity and some dynamics.
 *sorry, i forgot to mention the last 3 needs an adapter. it will not function in the wa6
 without the adapter. you can ask jack to make you one but i've no idea how much
 he'd charge for the pair. if you're good with soldering and electronics you can make
 a pair yourself. it's not very difficult. you're welcome to ask if you need directions.

 i haven't experienced the dact in my wa6, but when i had the mpx3 slam se
 it had the 30 step dact... it didn't sound any better than my wa6 heavily
 modded nor the wa6SE stock, in terms of clarity, openness and focus.
 if the dact upgrade was moderate in price, like less than $100, i'd recommend
 trying it out. but at $215, it's hard to justify the purchase unless it's gives
 a significant sonic improvement. john, or jamato8, will give you a better idea
 of this upgrade.

 i hope this helps and haven't caused any additional confusion... good luck
 in your decisions._

 

I liked the GZ34 with Grados, but after comparing them to the Sophia I am not impressed with the GZ34. I have an Amperex Bugle Boy and a 1955 Philips metal base worth $300-400 for the two, and the Sophia beats them in clarity, speed, control and spaciousness.

 The RCA and Sylvania 5U4G for $20 sound more spacious than the GZ34 but were a little plasticky or artificial in the treble. The Sophia was noticeably better in timbre and tone than these. With anything but the Sophia my Edition 9 and re-cabled HFI-780 were almost unusable (muddy boomy bass and rolled off treble) with the WA6, till I got the Sophia which was a match made in heaven. 

 And, now with Sophia my WA6 sounds just like Blutarsky's Melos SHA Gold and Zana Deux with anything we threw at them (from RS-1 and HP-1000 to HD6000). With the GZ34 it was still nice but lacked the bigger soundstage and bass control of the other amps. The bass with the Grado PS-1 is a little excessive on my WA6/Sophia but still well controlled.

 Anyone wanna buy my GZ34's let me know in PM...


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *auee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...Budget is a factor. I am always interested in finding the point of diminishing returns in my audio purchases. Things can get way out of hand otherwise for a small change, not necessarily improvement, in sound. Your advise with respect to prat, timing, is a major point of concern for me. I place timing and tonality above sound staging and imaging. If the timing is off, to me, the essence of the music is lost. Now I am equipped to speak with Mr. Wu, Jack to you guys, about building me an amp. If all goes well, it will be early next week...._

 

then i'd highly suggest you get the v-caps that jack offers, or the mundorf
 silver and gold in oil with same specs. jamato8 has the latter and he indicated
 that they are outstanding in the wa6. they're relatively expensive for an input
 coupling cap, but should provide you with the maximum prat and tonality you
 strive for in a tube amp. you can scratch the dact to make up the difference.

 i'm sure you will, but asking jack for his opinions based on your needs is the
 way to go too. good luck!


----------



## Orcin

With regard to tubes...

 Power tubes: You should experiment with Takezo's list. It can change the sound more than you might think.

 Rectifier tubes: There are really two ways to go here. Experiment with Takezo's list, and have a lot of fun for not much money. You will get great sound, endless variety, and be able to tweak with power tube combos for months. OR you can just go right to the endgame and buy the Sophia Princess. Either way is justified.


----------



## sclamb

One good thing about the Princess is that you will save the $150 in no time because you can turn the lights off and just sit in the glow of the tube. Over time, you will be saving a lot


----------



## Torero

Has someone tested the 6SN7? Will someone test it?


----------



## Gradofan2

If you want the PRAT and dynamics of the 6DE7s, and the soundstage, air and detail of the 6EW7s - try the Raytheon 6EW7s. They have it all when mated with the Sovtek 5U4G ST Rectifier, or the Tung Sol 5U4G for that matter. Or... the RCA 6FD7s have a very similar sound, with a bit more gain.

 Great with both the HD650s and D5000s.


----------



## veloaudio

Thought I would put these here for the potential benefit of all.


----------



## WittyzTH

Thanks a lot Matt. hope I can yours soon.


----------



## Torero

I need your opinion,

 Is the WA6 very sensible to the quality of its power cable?


----------



## jantze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need your opinion,
 Is the WA6 very sensible to the quality of its power cable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I hope no one answears this question. Cables are religion. See my profile for my stuff.


----------



## dannie01

I just order my WA6 SE with Sophia 274B a few minutes ago. I'm glad I can enjoy my music like all of you here with Jack's amp.

 Cheers


----------



## Byrnie

great review thanks.


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just order my WA6 SE with Sophia 274B a few minutes ago. I'm glad I can enjoy my music like all of you here with Jack's amp.

 Cheers_

 

A great choice. Your going to love it!!


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need your opinion,

 Is the WA6 very sensible to the quality of its power cable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I don't think so. I have tried a spare PC cable, a Volex 17604, and a Zu Birth. I left the Zu Birth in place because it was shorter and fit my space better but I really couldn't tell any difference in the sound. I think you would be pressed to claim a huge improvement.

 Takezo posted once that he thought the Volex 17604 (a $20 cable) was a better match than a more expensive cable he tried. That would probably be a worthwhile investment if you want an upgrade over a basic cable.


 P.S. Sorry, Jantze, I couldn't resist answering.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A great choice. Your going to love it!!_

 

Thanks AntiGeek, being poisioned here in headfi quite sure I have make a right choice in the WA6 SE.


----------



## veloaudio

I was picking up RF on my power cable causing the transformers on my 6SE to hum. Never heard it through my headphones though. I switched to a shielded Blue Dragon and the hum went away. 

 So YMMV but I would suggest a shielded power cord.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Torero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need your opinion,

 Is the WA6 very sensible to the quality of its power cable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## takezo

i finally got around to making a pair of adapters to use the popular 6sn7 type
 dual triodes. it took some time to locate a coupling copper pipe used in plumbing
 to make use of an octal socket and a 9-pin socket. i used 22awg solid copper
 for the internal hookup between the two sockets. the gold-plated male pins
 for the 9-pin end were found on eebay. total parts= $35+ plus shipping for the
 pair. it took me more than 6 hrs. to prepare and put these together as i've never
 made one before... 

 here are some pics:















 the sound signature of these 6sn7 is, in general, very refined and smooth.
 not the most dynamic but everything just sounds natural and smooth; not
 a hint of graininess nor sibilance nor compression. in fact it sounds better
 than the 6cg7/6fq7, the 9-pin sisters of the 6sn7... better resolution,
 openness and balance. it rivals the 6cs7 for timbre and texture in the mids,
 but much more quiet and larger soundstage than the 6cs7.
 in terms of soundstage, it's similar to the 6ew7 but not as large as the 6fd7.
 the 6sn7 does lean towards the "tubey" sound... soft yet detailed, glowing
 yet focused and smooth in the most refined sense... and no smearing!
 for what i listen to, i like these in the output section the best... for now.
 it's mu is 20 for both sections.( i used the gz30 for rectification, as i find this
 the most neutral and balanced, and the senn650 and denon d5000.)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i finally got around to making a pair of adapters to use the popular 6sn7 type
 dual triodes. it took some time to locate a coupling copper pipe used in plumbing
 to make use of an octal socket and a 9-pin socket. i used 22awg solid copper
 for the internal hookup between the two sockets. the gold-plated male pins
 for the 9-pin end were found on eebay. total parts= $35+ plus shipping for the
 pair. it took me more than 6 hrs. to prepare and put these together as i've never
 made one before... 

 here are some pics:















 the sound signature of these 6sn7 is, in general, very refined and smooth.
 not the most dynamic but everything just sounds natural and smooth; not
 a hint of graininess nor sibilance nor compression. in fact it sounds better
 than the 6cg7/6fq7, the 9-pin sisters of the 6sn7... better resolution,
 openness and balance. it rivals the 6cs7 for timbre and texture in the mids,
 but much more quiet and larger soundstage than the 6cs7.
 in terms of soundstage, it's similar to the 6ew7 but not as large as the 6fd7.
 the 6sn7 does lean towards the "tubey" sound... soft yet detailed, glowing
 yet focused and smooth in the most refined sense... and no smearing!
 for what i listen to, i like these in the output section the best... for now.
 it's mu is 20 for both sections.( i used the gz30 for rectification, as i find this
 the most neutral and balanced, and the senn650 and denon d5000.)_

 

I would love to have you sell me a set of those adapters, and I could try my pair of Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 type tubes which were phenomenal sounding in my old DV336i. I saved them with a Sylvania Bad Boy in case I ever get a Single Power tube amp that takes these (Skylab had me thinking about it for a while).


----------



## Gvvt

Wow - what a beautiful job!


----------



## atbglenn

I made my headphone stand out of plumbing parts


----------



## takezo

nothing wrong with plumbing parts... they're easy to find and very
 cheap... and may in fact act as RF shield for the internal wires.


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_nothing wrong with plumbing parts... they're easy to find and very
 cheap... and may in fact act as RF shield for the internal wires._

 

My father owned a hardware store from the late 50's till the end of the 80's. You wouldn't believe all the stock I have in all sorts of plumbing supplies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My garage is like a mini hardware store.


----------



## WittyzTH

nice work indeed! hope I can try that out once.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want the PRAT and dynamics of the 6DE7s, and the soundstage, air and detail of the 6EW7s - try the Raytheon 6EW7s. They have it all when mated with the Sovtek 5U4G ST Rectifier, or the Tung Sol 5U4G for that matter. Or... the RCA 6FD7s have a very similar sound, with a bit more gain.

 Great with both the HD650s and D5000s._

 

And... perhaps... even better yet... are the Mullard 6CY7s - similar to the Raytheon 6EW7s - but with maybe a bit more of everything. Great with Senns, or Denons... but... especially the Senns.


----------



## Kasper

I am looking for a great amp to power my ath-w1000. I just tried the trafomatic head one, as an amp a couple of people recomended as being good for these phones. 

 But it gave hum - lots of it. I still think it must be broken, but the dealer says it is like that.

 So my question is will the wa 6se hum or his with low impedance phones.

 It sounds like the tonality will answer my quest for musical warm sound with no fatique, but a complete black background is a must before I pay this kind of money!

 Thanks for any adwise!


----------



## veloaudio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am looking for a great amp to power my ath-w1000. I just tried the trafomatic head one, as an amp a couple of people recomended as being good for these phones. 

 But it gave hum - lots of it. I still think it must be broken, but the dealer says it is like that.

 So my question is will the wa 6se hum or his with low impedance phones.

 It sounds like the tonality will answer my quest for musical warm sound with no fatique, but a complete black background is a must before I pay this kind of money!

 Thanks for any adwise!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Mine did not with my ESW10s.


----------



## musicmind

The WA6 is dead quiet with my low impedance headphones (ATH AD2000, D5000 and HD595) 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am looking for a great amp to power my ath-w1000. I just tried the trafomatic head one, as an amp a couple of people recomended as being good for these phones. 

 But it gave hum - lots of it. I still think it must be broken, but the dealer says it is like that.

 So my question is will the wa 6se hum or his with low impedance phones.

 It sounds like the tonality will answer my quest for musical warm sound with no fatique, but a complete black background is a must before I pay this kind of money!

 Thanks for any adwise!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_filing without taking the screws out may cause more of a mess than
 you'd want... if possible, take the screws out one at a time, if 
 you don't want things falling apart on you, and cut the ends with
 a cutting plier and screw it back on... continuing until you've gone
 thru all four screws. if you don't want to go thru the hassle, just
 use a diagonal cutting plier and go snip the protuding ends from
 the top side. the cut piece may jump into the chassis, so take
 care to remove it once done. good luck._

 

Done... 

 I used a Dremel Tool to grind them down a bit... to allow a better fit with fat bottle tubes. 

 But... I was very careful to place dual sided tape over the tube sockets, and some tape to block the edges of the opening to prevent filings from getting into the sockets, or on other connections. I also, vacuumed and spray dusted the top and the internal circuits to make sure no fillings remained. 

 It works fine... with a better fit for fat bottle tubes.


----------



## Kasper

I am trying to decide between the woo wa6se and the rudistor rpx-33 leaning mostly towards the woo. Bit worried though that the princess might light up the room to much. I listen in the bedroom while my whife and daughter sleeps and don't want to disturbe them too much.

 My only prior experience with tubes is the trafomatic and it's tubes are small, but what about the princess? 
 Would you say it lights up more ore less than a candle?


----------



## Orcin

It is not enough light to cause a shadow, so maybe even less than a candle. It is a lot less than a night light.


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 I am trying to decide between the woo wa6se and the rudistor rpx-33 leaning mostly towards the woo. Bit worried though that the princess might light up the room to much. I listen in the bedroom while my whife and daughter sleeps and don't want to disturbe them too much. 
 

Forgive me, but I personally think the _last_ (and probably weirdest) thing you should be factoring in as a make-or-break criterion in choosing an amp, is whether the tube lights up the room too much!


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Forgive me, but I personally think the last (and probably weirdest) thing you should be factoring in as a make-or-break criterion in choosing an amp, is whether the tube lights up the room too much!_

 

This guy is being considerate of others, I don't think it's weird at all.


----------



## musicmind

I dont think you have to worry about the light emitted from the tubes. Remember that all these tube glow pics are taken with long exposure/high ISO settings etc and that's why the tubes appear so bright. In reality, the tube glow is hardly anything to keep anyone awake, unless you are listening to music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kasper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am trying to decide between the woo wa6se 
 and the rudistor rpx-33 leaning mostly towards the woo. Bit worried though that the princess might light up the room to much. I listen in the bedroom while my whife and daughter sleeps and don't want to disturbe them too much.

 My only prior experience with tubes is the trafomatic and it's tubes are small, but what about the princess? 
 Would you say it lights up more ore less than a candle?_


----------



## WittyzTH

How long you guys listen to WA6 continuously? On the site, Jack recommend that it should not over 10hrs. Sometimes, I listen to music and fall asleep. So it may be more 10hrs if I do that.


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dont think you have to worry about the light emitted from the tubes. Remember that all these tube glow pics are taken with long exposure/high ISO settings etc and that's why the tubes appear so bright. In reality, the tube glow is hardly anything to keep anyone awake, unless you are listening to music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

To be honest, the tube glow is so warm it puts me to sleep. I have so many CDs where I have only heard the first three tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Simon


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long you guys listen to WA6 continuously? On the site, Jack recommend that it should not over 10hrs. Sometimes, I listen to music and fall asleep. So it may be more 10hrs if I do that._

 


 Many times during the burn-in period, I ran the amp for 12-13 hours continously without incident. It did not seem any hotter at the end of 12 hours than 10 hours. Sometimes I would turn it off after 12 hours, let it cool down for an hour or two, and then run it for another 8-10 hours. It has shown no ill effects.


----------



## WittyzTH

One more question. I just got WA6SE from other head-fier. When I tried it at first with Sophia and 6EW7 combo, it worked really fine. When I went back home and tried it again, it couldn't work and I found a fuse was dead. I went to Radshack to get the replacement. just turn it on and the Princess flashed inside! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a fuse is dead again. -_-"

 I don't know what's wrong with it. I connect the WA6SE with Signal Cable power cord. I guess that shouldn't be a problem, isn't it?


 -------

 EDIT: after changing to another combo, the problem is the Sophia which makes the fuse dead. Everytime I put the Sophia in and turn the amp on, it flashed. I guess I need to contact Jack Wu for the clarification.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One more question. I just got WA6SE from other head-fier. When I tried it at first with Sophia and 6EW7 combo, it worked really fine. When I went back home and tried it again, it couldn't work and I found a fuse was dead. I went to Radshack to get the replacement. just turn it on and the Princess flashed inside! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and a fuse is dead again. -_-"

 I don't know what's wrong with it. I connect the WA6SE with Signal Cable power cord. I guess that shouldn't be a problem, isn't it?


 -------

 EDIT: after changing to another combo, the problem is the Sophia which makes the fuse dead. Everytime I put the Sophia in and turn the amp on, it flashed. I guess I need to contact Jack Wu for the clarification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Jack made a change in the design of the SE late last summer to make it compatible with the Princess - changed an inductor or resistor value in each circuit. Earlier designs typically caused a flash in the Princess, which may be what's causing your issue. You may need to return it to him, to be updated. 

 There's an extensive discussion of the change in one of the Woo Audio 6 threads - maybe this one. 

 It seems to operate fine with other rectifiers - but, the Princess has different requirements.


----------



## WittyzTH

Thanks Gradofan2.

 I already got the response from Jack. he asked me to send the PSU unit and the Sophia back.


----------



## sclamb

Don't worry. Jack is good on this and you will get the PSU back working perfectly with the Sophia.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't worry. Jack is good on this and you will get the PSU back working perfectly with the Sophia._

 

Yeah... 

 ... that's one of the benefits of buying a Woo Audio amp, which may not always be fully appreciated: their elegant design and construction, and the exceptional customer service... unlike... "some other amps / vendors we know."

 Confidence and peace-of-mind are worth a lot!


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah... 

 ... that's one of the benefits of buying a Woo Audio amp, which may not always be fully appreciated: their elegant design and construction, and the exceptional customer service... unlike... "some other amps / vendors we know."

 Confidence and peace-of-mind are worth a lot!_

 

X2 on that.


----------



## yoff

Hello 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my WA6-SE the EML 274B is a little loose in the socket . Do you know how to correct this ?


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yoff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my WA6-SE the EML 274B is a little loose in the socket . Do you know how to correct this ?_

 

You ca find how to fix it easily by yourself in this thread in p.56-57, from post #837 that what sclamb was having the similar problem then solved.

 Hope this help.


----------



## sclamb

Yes, close them pins up a bit and it will grip the tube better. I would only bother doing this if the sound is being affected.


----------



## yoff

Thank you for your replies .


----------



## KevM2

I think I'll just spring for a WA6SE with the upgrades and enjoy it for a few years instead of rushing to go balanced. It's way too much money because on top of the amp, I'll have to get all the headphones recabled. I like what I've been hearing about the WA6SE.


----------



## shellylh

You could always go for the WA5 LE, that was my "compromise." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KevM2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think I'll just spring for a WA6SE with the upgrades and enjoy it for a few years instead of rushing to go balanced. It's way too much money because on top of the amp, I'll have to get all the headphones recabled. I like what I've been hearing about the WA6SE._


----------



## WittyzTH

Where I can get a pair of RCA fat bottle 6FD7? I couldn't find it on eBay and at tubedepot.com, they only mention as NOS-tubes.


----------



## KevM2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You could always go for the WA5 LE, that was my "compromise." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

What made you back out of the balanced option?

 Main thing for me is that I don't feel like getting everything recabled. For Sennheisers, it's easy because they have detachable cables. For some other headphones, it won't be nearly as easy.

 I think the Balancing Act has both the balanced and single ended options. What made you go for the WA5 LE over something like the Zana Deux? I know Woo Audio has excellent service. What audio qualities that you read about drew you to the WA5?


----------



## sillysally

I am getting a WA6SE with the Sophia Princess upgrade. 

 I will be using my WA6SE and HD650 for audio 2ch analog playback, of mainly Blu Ray movies. 
 I will be connecting to the WA6SE to a Nordost Vishnu Power Cord and a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner, along with my Pioneer BD-09 that has 8 Wolfson Audio DACS.

 I have a MK IV SE now. Do you think there will be a nice improvement and will this new setup be a good match for what I will be using it for?

 Thanks,

 ss


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am getting a WA6SE with the Sophia Princess upgrade. 

 I will be using my WA6SE and HD650 for audio 2ch analog playback, of mainly Blu Ray movies. 
 I will be connecting to the WA6SE to a Nordost Vishnu Power Cord and a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner, along with my Pioneer BD-09 that has 8 Wolfson Audio DACS.

 I have a MK IV SE now. Do you think there will be a nice improvement and will this new setup be a good match for what I will be using it for?

 Thanks,

 ss_

 

Does it make any difference at this point - if you've already ordered it?

 I have no idea how it compares to the MK IV SE - but, I can assure you... you will be very impressed with the WA6 SE + SP Princess. 

 I have no experience with using it with Blue Ray Movies... but... I would think it will sound great - though, I suppose it could be a bit of "over-kill" using it with movies, in contrast with a great vinyl or SACD/CD set up. I just don't know how the SQ of Blue Ray movies compares to these other great sources - whether you'll notice much difference between the WA6 SE and your MK IV SE with them.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does it make any difference at this point - if you've already ordered it?

 I have no idea how it compares to the MK IV SE - but, I can assure you... you will be very impressed with the WA6 SE + SP Princess. 

 I have no experience with using it with Blue Ray Movies... but... I would think it will sound great - though, I suppose it could be a bit of "over-kill" using it with movies, in contrast with a great vinyl or SACD/CD set up. I just don't know how the SQ of Blue Ray movies compares to these other great sources - whether you'll notice much difference between the WA6 SE and your MK IV SE with them._

 

Sure It does. Jack seems to be a little backed up, so my unit will not be built for two to three weeks. So I could cancel.

 As far as what I am using this unit for, this is uncharted water that I have been playing with. 
 With my first try at this, using a MK IV SE did make a marked improvement. over using a A/V to plug my HD650s into. 
 Using a BDP-09 for playback of HD audio that comes on Blu Ray and the fact that the BDP-09 has 8 Wolfson Audio DACS, for use with analog out makes for a very interesting sound track. 

 It seems that there really is not much to go by. Here or over on AVS were I hang out. 

 ss


----------



## peanuthead

You really can't go wrong with WA6SE. You'll love it with the HD650. Also, I remember reading a thread a while back where several people thought WA6 (not SE) was a significant improvement over MK IV SE.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really can't go wrong with WA6SE. You'll love it with the HD650. Also, I remember reading a thread a while back where several people thought WA6 (not SE) was a significant improvement over MK IV SE._

 

That's my thinking also. Plus these are made in the USA.

 The MK IV SE is a very nice entry level tube amp and I don't really miss using my 7.1 sound system. But I can't turn my film viewing into a house hold event and if you can't crank up the volume then you loose to much audio and affect. 

 What you loose when you use headphones is the window shaking and the puffs of air from the sub. 
 However what you gain with a HP amp and good headphones is the clarity, separation, and at times the three D affect.

 And using a A/V unit to plug your headphones into just doesn't cut it.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am getting a WA6SE with the Sophia Princess upgrade. 

 I will be using my WA6SE and HD650 for audio 2ch analog playback, of mainly Blu Ray movies. 
 I will be connecting to the WA6SE to a Nordost Vishnu Power Cord and a PS Audio - Premier Power Conditioner, along with my Pioneer BD-09 that has 8 Wolfson Audio DACS.

 I have a MK IV SE now. Do you think there will be a nice improvement and will this new setup be a good match for what I will be using it for?_

 


 Yes, I think it will be a good match and you will like it. Whether is will be enough improvement in your application to justify the money is less certain. I do think you will appreciate the build quality of the WA6SE, and the glow of the Princess is worth something. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can tell you that the first thing people notice when they come into my library is that tube.

 You might benefit from having the second set of inputs. I don't know the rest of your setup, but you would have a place to plug in a DAC later should you decide to add music to the system.

 Another benefit of the WA6SE is the separate headphone jacks for high and low impedance. Obviously, you would use the HD650 in the high impedance jack. I suggest investing in a pair of low impedance phones to run from the other jack for those occasions where you want to share the movie. It would not have to be an expensive set.


 Edit: I think this is the thread that peanuthead was mentioning. The biggest advantage that I see here is the transformer coupled design vs. OTL that would (in theory) perform better with low impedance phones. That doesn't apply to your case, which is why I am not sure you will hear a huge sound difference.


----------



## ferraro25

I'm going to order a standard WA6 next week. I've been in this hobby for 3 1/2 years, but never paid much attention to amping until recently. The HD650 I just got has made me _really_ want to get my first desktop amp and make sure it is a tube. I have only had two amps, both portable, with the Total AirHead being the more expensive of the two, so I expect to be amazed by the WA6. The HD650 is just not properly driven with the AirHead, because the bass extension is very poor, body is lacking, and the treble is quite strong. It does not sound what I've read the HD650 sounds like, but the WA6 will fix that problem. I also look forward to hearing what my other headphones can do, especially the K701.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure It does. Jack seems to be a little backed up, so my unit will not be built for two to three weeks. So I could cancel._

 

Darn, that is too bad. I was hoping for being able to get the amp about 2 weeks after I ordered it. I'll still put my order through, though. The extra wait will make me that much more thankful that I finally got a real amp.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ferraro25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I

 Darn, that is too bad. I was hoping for being able to get the amp about 2 weeks after I ordered it. I'll still put my order through, though. The extra wait will make me that much more thankful that I finally got a real amp._

 

I'm sorry I mislead you a bit. I looked at my confirmation from Jack, and it said 3 to 4 weeks, maybe sooner. 

 And yes from what you described about your airheads, my entry level headphone amp that I have now is much better than your airheads. So yes you should be in audio heaven when you get your new Woo.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Almost all of the 70's stuff and any of the last bit of production in the 80's was all mixed up. You never really knew who was making the tube and quality really bit the dust, even on the last bit of the WE tubes, which were among the best. 

 I use the Goldpoint attenuator and have no problem._

 

Hi John,

 What's the model of Goldpoint attenuator you are using in your WA6 and can it be used in WA6SE (I ordered one and told that from Jack it will be shipped within this week
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)? Any differ in SQ compare with stock Alps?

 Thanks,
 Danny


----------



## sillysally

Oh my, 6 weeks. Well I guess Jack is doing well.

 Anybody using these cables? Audioquest - Diamondback Interconnect.

 Any recommendation for a rca/rca interconnect cables.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi John,

 What's the model of Goldpoint attenuator you are using in your WA6 and can it be used in WA6SE (I ordered one and told that from Jack it will be shipped within this week
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)? Any differ in SQ compare with stock Alps?

 Thanks,
 Danny_

 

With the Goldpoint you get a very clean signal in that the resistors are of a very fine quality so the transparency, for me, is increased. It is a refinement of the sound. You might listen to both and not hear a difference but upon extended listening the difference will be more noticeable. Jack doesn't use Goldpoint but uses DACT, which is more expensive and no better. In fact DACT coppied Goldpoint a number of years back. They both use the same switch but implement it a little differently.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With the Goldpoint you get a very clean signal in that the resistors are of a very fine quality so the transparency, for me, is increased. It is a refinement of the sound. You might listen to both and not hear a difference but upon extended listening the difference will be more noticeable. Jack doesn't use Goldpoint but uses DACT, which is more expensive and no better. In fact DACT coppied Goldpoint a number of years back. They both use the same switch but implement it a little differently._

 

Thanks John, checked with Goldpoint's website, it should be a Stereo Mini V with SMD, very beautiful.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks John, checked with Goldpoint's website, it should be a Stereo Mini V with SMD, very beautiful._

 

That is the one I use.


----------



## csommers

Yea I got an email from Jack saying my order, along with quite a few others, was delayed due to a bad parts batch, and it would be another 2+ weeks.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *csommers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yea I got an email from Jack saying my order, along with quite a few others, was delayed due to a bad parts batch, and it would be another 2+ weeks._

 

Oh................2+ weeks...................that's mean I would to have a total 6 weeks of waiting or more............too bad BUT WORTH I"M SURE.


----------



## csommers

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh................2+ weeks...................that's mean I would to have a total 6 weeks of waiting or more............too bad BUT WORTH I"M SURE.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Might be just what I ordered though, probably best to shoot them an email


----------



## ferraro25

Just ordered a "standard" WA6. Six (or more?) weeks will be a long wait (I have already asked about my wait time in an e-mail sent soon after I ordered), but I am willing to wait to get such a huge upgrade from my Total AirHead. This will be my first desktop amp, and I'm going in pretty strongly, I think.

 It does suck to know that I am going to be hearing the HD650 under-driven for six more weeks, though. Knowing that it could sound SO much better, augh. I guess I could switch over to my Stax SRS-2050II system (my favorite next to the HD650), since I probably won't be using it at all after I get the WA6.

 I am also very excited to hear what all of my other headphones will sound like with the WA6. It'll be the time for the K701 to show itself. I don't like the K701 with what I have, but maybe the warmth, musicality, and output power of the WA6 will make it sing. The K501 will also be very interesting to hear with the WA6.


----------



## sclamb

The K701 will shine more than ever with the WA6. I know, I had them with my 6SE!


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The K701 will shine more than ever with the WA6. I know, I had them with my 6SE!_

 

Hi sclamb,

 I just upgraded my WA6SE to maxed out. 

 How do you like your maxed out WA6se?

 ss


----------



## sclamb

I love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did go mad getting lots of different types of tubes for it and have settled on the RCA 6fd7 and Sophia Princess for the time being.

 I'm not sure how much difference the premium parts make (as I never heard a WA6) but I like the fact that the amp has power to drive just about any headphone and it has the look and feel of something that will last forever.

 Simon


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did go mad getting lots of different types of tubes for it and have settled on the RCA 6fd7 and Sophia Princess for the time being.

 I'm not sure how much difference the premium parts make (as I never heard a WA6) but I like the fact that the amp has power to drive just about any headphone and it has the look and feel of something that will last forever.

 Simon_

 

I think in the end what my reasoning was, that at least I will know what a high end headphone amp is. And not be second guessing myself. And that's why I went with the maxed out version of the WA6SE. 
 I also use a PS Audio Power Plant Premiers (set on MW mode),Nordost Vishnu Power Cord and a pair of AudioQuest Diamondback interconnect cables. 
 Senn HD650 and a Cardas - Headphone Cable.
 My source is a Pioneer BDP-09.


----------



## sclamb

Sounds like a nice set-up. Mine is in my sig and here is a pic:






 Not sure how much difference the power cords make but in for a penny, in for a pound as they say.

 Do you now have your 6SE maxed out or are you waiting for it to come back? If the former, do you notice a big difference?


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds like a nice set-up. Mine is in my sig 

 Not sure how much difference the power cords make but in for a penny, in for a pound as they say.

 Do you now have your 6SE maxed out or are you waiting for it to come back? If the former, do you notice a big difference?_

 

imo the power cords and power station do make a noticeable improvement in my system. I also use a PS Audio - Premier "SC" Power Cable for my BDP-09, and as I said i do set my power station to MuitiWave (use at your own risk) mode and run cleanwave to set things up.

 No I don't have my WA6SE yet. Jack says It should ship at months end. 
 So I am using my LD MK IV SE. 

 Nice picture. Now I know how the WA6SE looks like in real life.

 I have been kicking over rocks here on HF as I did when I got my LD. 

 ss


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mine is in my sig and here is a pic:_

 



 Nice looking rig!!!


----------



## sclamb

Thanks


----------



## dannie01

Sorry, deleted.


----------



## danmagicman7

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I did go mad getting lots of different types of tubes for it and have settled on the RCA 6fd7 and Sophia Princess for the time being._

 

The RCA 6FD7 is my favorite as well. In my avatar


----------



## peanuthead

For those of you with 6SE and 6FD7 tubes, is the increased gain an issue? I'm currently alternating between 6DE7 and 6EW7, and rarely go above 9-10 o'clock on the volume pot with both Denon D2000 and Senn HD650.
 At this point, I prefer the 6DE7 (RCA) to 6EW7 (United?) for better overall impact and more "focused" sound...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you with 6SE and 6FD7 tubes, is the increased gain an issue? I'm currently alternating between 6DE7 and 6EW7, and rarely go above 9-10 o'clock on the volume pot with both Denon D2000 and Senn HD650.
 At this point, I prefer the 6DE7 (RCA) to 6EW7 (United?) for better overall impact and more "focused" sound..._

 

The increased gain is not really an issue.

 It might have a bit of noise at very high POT levels (say 1 O'clock and above) with no signal, but nothing noticeable at normal POT levels of about 9--10 O'clock (which is loud). 

 The 6FD7 tubes (I've got the RCAs) are very much like the Raytheon 6EW7 tubes - lots of resolution, detail, claity, but with a very dynamic, punchy sound, similar to the 6DE7 tubes. 

 I think you'd be very pleased with them, if you get them.


----------



## peanuthead

Thanks. I just ordered a pair of RCA 6fd7's.
 I'm currently enjoying both 6DE7 and 6EW7 pretty much equally. Will see how 6fd7 compares. Man, I love the 6SE, but it's tough being sleep deprived from extended late night listenings...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The increased gain is not really an issue.

 It might have a bit of noise at very high POT levels (say 1 O'clock and above) with no signal, but nothing noticeable at normal POT levels of about 9--10 O'clock (which is loud). 

 The 6FD7 tubes (I've got the RCAs) are very much like the Raytheon 6EW7 tubes - lots of resolution, detail, claity, but with a very dynamic, punchy sound, similar to the 6DE7 tubes. 

 I think you'd be very pleased with them, if you get them._


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_then i'd highly suggest you get the v-caps that jack offers, or the mundorf
 silver and gold in oil with same specs. jamato8 has the latter and he indicated
 that they are outstanding in the wa6. they're relatively expensive for an input
 coupling cap, but should provide you with the maximum prat and tonality you
 strive for in a tube amp. you can scratch the dact to make up the difference.

 i'm sure you will, but asking jack for his opinions based on your needs is the
 way to go too. good luck!_

 

Hi takezo, it's interesting and sounds really attractive by adding a good caps to make some improvement. For the 6SE, if, adding v-caps or mundorf, as bypass an input coupling cap, it should be bypass the 220uf/16v or the 47uf/350v in the output unit. Thanks for your advise.
 Cheers, Danny


----------



## takezo

hi danny, the wa6SE is direct coupled and does not make use of the input coupling caps
 like v-cap or mundorf. the direct coupled gives the better bass extension and tautness, imo. 
 you can always upgrade the resistor used in the direct coupling stage with high quality
 carbon types, as well as the bypass caps and bypass resistors...


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi danny, the wa6SE is direct coupled and does not make use of the input coupling caps
 like v-cap or mundorf. the direct coupled gives the better bass extension and tautness, imo. 
 you can always upgrade the resistor used in the direct coupling stage with high quality
 carbon types, as well as the bypass caps and bypass resistors..._

 

Thanks takezo, wow, really fast reply and helpful. I've replaced all resistors into Kiwame also 2 of the 220uf/16v by BG FK in same value in the output unit. Sounds improve in clarity, more dynamic and punchy after 50+ hrs of burn in. Some more caps of BG on my order of 22uf/ 350v, Nichicon 470uf/ 100v will be my next step. Would you suggest any other choice than that?


----------



## peanuthead

Dude, post some pics!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks takezo, wow, really fast reply and helpful. I've replaced all resistors into Kiwame also 2 of the 220uf/16v by BG FK in same value in the output unit. Sounds improve in clarity, more dynamic and punchy after 50+ hrs of burn in. Some more caps of BG on my order of 22uf/ 350v, Nichicon 470uf/ 100v will be my next step. Would you suggest any other choice than that?_


----------



## dannie01

Sure, but some days later when I got my DC back that borrowed by my friend.


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks takezo, wow, really fast reply and helpful. I've replaced all resistors into Kiwame also 2 of the 220uf/16v by BG FK in same value in the output unit. Sounds improve in clarity, more dynamic and punchy after 50+ hrs of burn in. Some more caps of BG on my order of 22uf/ 350v, Nichicon 470uf/ 100v will be my next step. Would you suggest any other choice than that?_

 

you may want to try using elna silmic II capacitors instead of the blackgate FK
 types in the bypass stage... if the FK present a crisp, clear, open sound the
 silmic II presents a lush, tubey sound that emphasizes the natural timbre in the
 mids. of course, the blackgate N-series non-poplar are the most open with
 fantastic mids... but also the most expensive of the lot.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you may want to try using elna silmic II capacitors instead of the blackgate FK
 types in the bypass stage... if the FK present a crisp, clear, open sound the
 silmic II presents a lush, tubey sound that emphasizes the natural timbre in the
 mids. of course, the blackgate N-series non-poplar are the most open with
 fantastic mids... but also the most expensive of the lot._

 

Thanks takezo, as what you advised, do you mean I can have a try with some good non-polar caps in the bypass stage with 220uf/16v or similar just depends on differs SQ of caps? The elna silmic II is one of choices, then may be bypass with musiccap, auricap, V-CAP in lower value. Also, what will be resulted if I replaced by a lower value there, let say 100uf or lower?
 Thanks


----------



## takezo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks takezo, as what you advised, do you mean I can have a try with some good non-polar caps in the bypass stage with 220uf/16v or similar just depends on differs SQ of caps? The elna silmic II is one of choices, may be musiccap, auricap, V-CAP or..............Also, what will be resulted if I replaced by a lower value there, let say 100uf or lower?
 Thanks_

 

yes, the cathode bypass caps and resistors are in the signal path and will influence to
 a certain degree the overall tone of the sound. i would stick with the electrolytic caps
 there as film caps will cost you an arm or two if you use them in 220uf values.
 i'm guessing the amp is designed to sound its best at that value. i'm pretty sure
 they used this formula:

 Xc=1/[(2)x(Pi)x(F)x(C)]
 or 
 C=1/[(2)x(Pi)x(F)x(Xc)]

 Where:
 Xc is the capacitive reactance
 Pi=3.14159
 F=15 Hertz
 C=capacitor value. 

 straying from the standard value may or may not affect the SQ. 
 higher microfarad value may or may not allow you to dip below 15 hertz
 but i don't think we can hear anything below that...
 lower value may or may not shift the spectrum to the highs...
 voltage wise, the cathode of the tube will probably never see anymore more
 than -5 volt so doubling that at the minimum of 10v should be safe.
 hope this helps and haven't confused you more. please double check with
 the real experts around here as there are many.


----------



## dannie01

takezo, thanks a lot for the valuable input. Emailed Jack for his upgrade parts mod and was answered to swap the BG's caps with the value he recommended is the best way for the modification.


----------



## jamato8

I prefer 470uf on the cathode as the mids, to my ear, are better while retaining the highs and the bass. Battery bias is even better. For the cathode resistor I would use a good carbon. Kiwame are nice but are no more than a rebranded 20 cent carbon that happens to be very good. I also recommend using larger than required resistors as you get less drift due to heat and they just tend to sound better.


----------



## saintalfonzo

If 2 people are listening at the same time with the WA6 SE, do they have to agree on a volume? There is no way to control volume separately is there?


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saintalfonzo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If 2 people are listening at the same time with the WA6 SE, do they have to agree on a volume? There is no way to control volume separately is there?_

 

No, you can't control the volume separately...resulting volume I guess depends on the sensitivity of each headphone.
 When I listen to Denon D2000 and Senn HD650 together, D2000 is slightly louder.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I prefer 470uf on the cathode as the mids, to my ear, are better while retaining the highs and the bass. Battery bias is even better. For the cathode resistor I would use a good carbon. Kiwame are nice but are no more than a rebranded 20 cent carbon that happens to be very good. I also recommend using larger than required resistors as you get less drift due to heat and they just tend to sound better._

 

Thanks John, but do you mean you suggest to swap the 220uf/16v by 470uf/16v to get better SQ? For resistors, what do you mean _"using larger than required resistors"_, larger the value? 1k to 2k or, please advise.
 Thanks


----------



## peanuthead

It is my understanding that with tube amps, you need to keep the heaphone plugged in at all times, so that the amp is meeting a "load."
 So what do you guys do when you want to switch headphones? Do you turn the amp off, switch headphones and then turn the amp back on, or do you let the amp go without the headphone "load" briefly?
 And what exactly happens if you leave the amp on without a headphone plugged in? Has anyone here left their Woo amp on for an extended period without any ill effects? Am I being overly cautious/paranoid?


----------



## Gradofan2

Yeah... that's a good question... do you leave the phones connected to the WA6, when turning on and off to change phones, or tubes???

 And...

 ... are the Blackgate Std caps (in black) really any better than other caps - since most vendors "upgrade" to the BG Std caps, and not the best / most expensive Blackgate N / NX caps (in red)???

 I realize the BG N/NX caps are very difficult / impossible to find in certain values (i.e. 1000uf 25 or 35v or 50v, etc.) - so they may not be an option.

 But... are the BG Std caps worth the cost of the "upgrade?"

 And... what caps would you suggest (that don't cost any more) that are a good alternative to the BG Std caps.


----------



## atbglenn

I always leave my headphones plugged in. The one thing I always do before powering my WA6 up, down, or switching headphones, is turn the volume control to minimum. I've been doing this for about a year with no problems at all.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

With the WA6 transformer driven output you could have it on with nothing plugged in, and wont dump a capacitor full of voltage into your phones when you do plug them in. So I was told.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is my understanding that with tube amps, you need to keep the heaphone plugged in at all times, so that the amp is meeting a "load."
 So what do you guys do when you want to switch headphones? Do you turn the amp off, switch headphones and then turn the amp back on, or do you let the amp go without the headphone "load" briefly?
 And what exactly happens if you leave the amp on without a headphone plugged in? Has anyone here left their Woo amp on for an extended period without any ill effects? Am I being overly cautious/paranoid?_

 

So I could probably switch headphones while leaving the amp turned on without ill effects? I'd prefer that route than turning the amp on and off...


----------



## peanuthead

I asked Jack. Not a good idea to leave it on without a headphone plugged in for extended periods, but ok to leave it unplugged for a few minutes at a time, as long as volume is turned down.


----------



## ferraro25

Just got my WA6 (stock; no upgrades). Sounds pretty good with the HD650. Volume is not a problem going from the X-Fi (at 60% master volume) to the E-Mu 0404 USB to the WA6 out to the HD650: a little higher than 11 o'clock is the highest point I'm willing to go with tracks that go near/past clipping.

 My HD650 still has no veil with the WA6. I was hoping for a warmer (or maybe thicker) sound, honestly. Amped with the WA6 sounds pretty similar in overall balance to unamped or with the Total AirHead (I have not done any direct comparisons yet, though), with the most obvious improvement being better bass extension. It also seems like the sound is more lively, the soundstage and instrument separation are better, and the bass quality is improved. I don't hear any added distortion to the sound.

 I wasn't expecting to be amazed, so I'm about where I expected at this point. I'm glad I finally bought a decent amp, though. I'll eventually get around to trying all of my other headphones with it.

 edited to add: Just tried my other headphones with the WA6. Not much to report. No volume problems with the K701, but I think it still sucks and it still has a veil if you go above a pretty low volume. Did not try my portable headphones (KSC-35, PX100, K81DJ). The K501 fared the best - it and the HD650 are the only headphones I'll use with the WA6, I think.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ferraro25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my WA6 (stock; no upgrades). Sounds pretty good with the HD650. Volume is not a problem going from the X-Fi (at 60% master volume) to the E-Mu 0404 USB to the WA6 out to the HD650: a little higher than 11 o'clock is the highest point I'm willing to go with tracks that go near/past clipping.

 My HD650 still has no veil with the WA6. I was hoping for a warmer (or maybe thicker) sound, honestly. Amped with the WA6 sounds pretty similar in overall balance to unamped or with the Total AirHead (I have not done any direct comparisons yet, though), with the most obvious improvement being better bass extension. It also seems like the sound is more lively, the soundstage and instrument separation are better, and the bass quality is improved. I don't hear any added distortion to the sound.

 I wasn't expecting to be amazed, so I'm about where I expected at this point. I'm glad I finally bought a decent amp, though. I'll eventually get around to trying all of my other headphones with it.

 edited to add: Just tried my other headphones with the WA6. Not much to report. No volume problems with the K701, but I think it still sucks and it still has a veil if you go above a pretty low volume. Did not try my portable headphones (KSC-35, PX100, K81DJ). The K501 fared the best - it and the HD650 are the only headphones I'll use with the WA6, I think._

 

Get the upgraded Sophia Princess 274b rectifier and run it in for about 80 hours and you will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## peanuthead

My experience in upgrading gear is that the differences are rather subtle (unless going from total crap to something decent) and it takes many extended listening sessions to really get to appreciate all the improvements that the better gear offers.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience in upgrading gear is that the differences are rather subtle (unless going from total crap to something decent) and it takes many extended listening sessions to really get to appreciate all the improvements that the better gear offers._

 

Yes, the difference between the stock WA6 and maxed WA6 is not that big and takes a while to hear the subtle improvements (I've heard both), but the difference between the stock rectifier tube and the Sophia rectifier tube is bigger. The stock rectifier has slightly more plasticky sounding treble, with less soundstage and depth, mids were not as rich and full, and the bass was not as tightly controlled or as powerful vs the Sophia.


----------



## peanuthead

Absolutely agree with you about the Sophia. I was responding to ferraro's initial impression of the WA6, that it really takes a while to get to appreciate all the good things about the amp.
 I've had the 6SE for more than a month now, and it continues to surprise me every day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the difference between the stock WA6 and maxed WA6 is not that big and takes a while to hear the subtle improvements (I've heard both), but the difference between the stock rectifier tube and the Sophia rectifier tube is bigger. The stock rectifier has slightly more plasticky sounding treble, with less soundstage and depth, mids were not as rich and full, and the bass was not as tightly controlled or as powerful vs the Sophia._


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Absolutely agree with you about the Sophia. I was responding to ferraro's initial impression of the WA6, that it really takes a while to get to appreciate all the good things about the amp.
 I've had the 6SE for more than a month now, and it continues to surprise me every day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Okay then.


----------



## jamato8

The stock 6 without the pseudo dual power supply will not wow. The amp needs the pseudo dual supply. Anything I build has this or dual power supplies. I also use the nonpolar caps in Super E but then that gets expensive for some but IMO, since I do it myself, worth it.


----------



## ferraro25

I'm now listening to my Stax SRS-2050II System, and it is better than either the HD650 and K501 out of the WA6.

 For at least a year, I was very happy with my SR-202 as the only headphone (besides the PX100 and KSC-35 directly out of my laptop) I cared to listen to. What made me consider dynamic headphones again was the announcement of the HD800. Thinking it would be among the best headphones ever made, I decided to pre-order it. However, I got tired of waiting, got wary of spending so much for a single headphone, and realized that my Total AirHead was too low-end, so I canceled the HD800. 

 Too late, though; I had caught the headphone bug. So I did a little research and ordered a Denon AH-D7000. The D7000 impressed me so much, initially, that I gave up on the SR-202. However, I eventually realized that I found the sound signature to be too v-shaped and the mids too thin (as in lacking body) to justify the price, so I sent it back and got a HD650. After having the HD650 for a little while, I found it to be pretty damn good, so I decided to "realize some of its potential" and buy a WA6. However, I missed the bass and impact of the D7000, so I (foolishly) bought the DT770 Pro 80 ohm, didn't like it, and (foolishly, once again) immediately bought the HFI-780, which is better than the DT770 Pro but crap compared to the D7000 (the HFI-780 has thumpy bass that cannot compare in any way to the D7000's tight, impactful, powerful bass).

 Well, fast forward a couple of weeks to today, and after finding myself pretty disappointed in how the HD650 sounds through the WA6 (if anything, it is too thick - too much congestion in any track that has a lot of [upper?] bass), I just now decided to try my SR-202 (I barely listened to it the past two and a half months, and didn't give it a chance due to wanting to like my new headphones). Surprise, surprise, it is as awesome as I remember it being before I went down this newest path. So clear, so natural, so real-sounding, and all this with no congestion.

 So, around three months and $1300 later (not including the D7000), I realize, once again, that my SR-202 is better than any dynamic headphone I've heard. I thought that perhaps the WA6 would change my mind on that. The D7000 was something unique, though - if I were to give up all dynamic headphones to keep just one at this point, it would be for the D7000, since it offers something an electrostat most likely cannot (powerful, impactful, head-shaking, yet very textured and refined, bass).

 But I'm probably being too quick to judge the WA6. Hopefully it will improve over the next ninety-something hours (100 hours recommended burn-in time). If it doesn't, it would be very smart of me to sell off all of my dynamic headphones costing >$100, my Total AirHead, and the WA6, and to get an Omega II system sometime in the future. I'm not sure I want to give away my identity on this site, though (through PayPal). I've acted the jerky way I have sometimes due to anonymity. I might use eBay, instead.

 If I were supporting myself, I would be much smarter with my money. I'm not in financial trouble, but spending $1300+, without much thought, on headphones and an amp over the course of four months is just stupid.

 I'm probably going to be spending over $3000 on a headphone and amp (Omega II), eventually, though, so... But it will be the endgame, not a wild goose chase.


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takezo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Hi Guys,

 I'm quite newbie to this tube amps world.

 What are those things that are covering the tubes?


 Thanks,


----------



## raffy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys,

 I'm quite newbie to this tube amps world.

 What are those things that are covering the tubes?


 Thanks,_

 

Herbie's Tube Dampers


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Guys,

 I'm quite newbie to this tube amps world.

 What are those things that are covering the tubes?


 Thanks,_

 

Hal-O tube dampers:

Herbie's Audio Lab: Tube Dampers

 Simon


----------



## robinje

What good would these possibly do when listening to headphones, assuming your speakers aren't simultaneously fired up or there's some other source of external vibration to "rattle" the tubes? My room is quiet, and I don't even touch my audio rack during a usual headphone listening session. So, why the tube dampers on a headphone amp?


----------



## h.rav

^ I was about to ask about it. Is there any particular reason to use the damper? Will it actually improve the SQ?


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hal-O tube dampers:

Herbie's Audio Lab: Tube Dampers

 Simon_

 

Thanks for the reply and link, now I just have to do a bit of research about the damper. I'm just curious, it seems a number of people are using dampers on their tubes.


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

I am one of those that uses HAL products too.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply and link, now I just have to do a bit of research about the damper. I'm just curious, it seems a number of people are using dampers on their tubes._


----------



## sclamb

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the reply and link, now I just have to do a bit of research about the damper. I'm just curious, it seems a number of people are using dampers on their tubes._

 

Well, there are those that believe that there are enough small vibrations around an amp that could cause vibration in the tubes, however small that might be.

 Given the relatively cheap price of the Hal-O dampers comapred to the price of my amp and phones, I decided it would not do any harm to have them fitted on the tubes.

 Do they make a noticeable difference? Not to my ears, but at least I have covered off another variable in things that can adversely affect the sound.

 Simon


----------



## robinje

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sclamb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, there are those that believe that there are enough small vibrations around an amp that could cause vibration in the tubes, however small that might be.

 Given the relatively cheap price of the Hal-O dampers comapred to the price of my amp and phones, I decided it would not do any harm to have them fitted on the tubes.

 Do they make a noticeable difference? Not to my ears, but at least I have covered off another variable in things that can adversely affect the sound.

 Simon_

 


 Thanks! I actually have a pair of tube dampers on my phono section's 12AX7's. I figure they might be useful there when I fire up my power amp and speakers. I honestly can't tell a difference in that application, either.


----------



## h.rav

^ I might just get them just for my curiosity purposes.


----------



## jamato8

Some like them but I have found that they can deaden the sound some. I prefer not a noisy tube but one that is slightly microphonic. It adds a bit of life and dimension to the sound that to my ear, is not unnatural. Also, while the dampening of the heavy tube rings would be understandable in application, there are also heat resistant O rings that you can get at the auto store that will also work. I just used teflon tape, and it works but again I don't like the dampening effect. With teflon you just spin it into a string and then wrap that around the tube a number of times, but not all over or you cut some of the ability of the glass to dissipate heat and this can be done in a few areas. Cheap and effective.


----------



## ferraro25

After putting around 50 hours (I wrote down the times I used it) on the WA6, I've decided to stop using it due to the superiority of my Stax SR-202.

 I might still use the HD650 directly out of my laptop during the times when I get tired of of the HFI-780.

 Paying $620 for an EQ (that was flawed) and extra harmonics was a bad idea.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ferraro25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After putting around 50 hours (I wrote down the times I used it) on the WA6, I've decided to stop using it due to the superiority of my Stax SR-202.

 I might still use the HD650 directly out of my laptop during the times when I get tired of of the HFI-780.

 Paying $620 for an EQ (that was flawed) and extra harmonics was a bad idea._

 

That's surprising.

 You might want to burn it in a while longer and swap the tubes... and... maybe try it with another source... before making a final judgment. 

 Though... that does imply "the headache" of more investment, and "fiddling around." I can certainly understand anyone's reluctance to "endure" all of that, when they're pleased with the sound of their current system.

 From my experience... my WA6 SEM didn't begin to "bloom" for a couple of hundred hours, and still hasn't yet fully burnt in (Blackgates). But... it's beginning to show detail, clarity, and air... it didn't begin to reveal in the first 100+ hours.

 And... its hard to believe any Stax system has the same bass, weight, impact and dynamics... despite the greater speed, presence, clarity, detail and air of electrostats.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's surprising.

 You might want to burn it in a while longer and swap the tubes... and... maybe try it with another source... before making a final judgment. 

 Though... that does imply "the headache" of more investment, and "fiddling around." I can certainly understand anyone's reluctance to "endure" all of that, when they're pleased with the sound of their current system.

 From my experience... my WA6 SEM didn't begin to "bloom" for a couple of hundred hours, and still hasn't yet fully burnt in (Blackgates). But... it's beginning to show detail, clarity, and air... it didn't begin to reveal in the first 100+ hours.

 And... its hard to believe any Stax system has the same bass, weight, impact and dynamics... despite the greater speed, presence, clarity, detail and air of electrostats._

 

I'll agree without any doubt. Even my 6SE is in standard component, it takes more than 500 hrs of burn-in since I received in mid-March. It will let you here more than you expected. You have to wait and keep burning in, be patient and wait, you'll be rewarded with its wonderful sounds finally.

 Cheers


----------



## peanuthead

It appears he simply prefers the Stax sound.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It appears he simply prefers the Stax sound._

 

That's fine, the Stax and Woo's tube amp are in different sound character. Hope the OP could enjoy music no matter in what kind of system, it's just music enjoyment.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's fine, the Stax and Woo's tube amp are in different sound character. Hope the OP could enjoy music no matter in what kind of system, it's just music enjoyment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That's fine...

 My point / question was simply... that... to make such a comparison, and make such a judgment may be premature... until... the WA6 is fully burnt in. 

 I'm finding my WA6 SEM is a totally different amp (much better)... than... when it was new. 

 On the other hand... I doubt... few, if any, dynamic setups will ever have quite the same speed, clarity, detail and air... as an electrostatic setup. 

 If someone prefers that type of sound to one with greater bass, weight, impact, dynamics - I can certainly appreciate that preference. Perhaps, the sound of a new WA6, may be so far away from the STAX, that he thinks that it could never approach the sound of the STAX, which he prefers, even with sufficient burn in. I suppose that could be.


----------



## peanuthead

I was forced to plug in my Senn HD650 to my HK receiver for a listen earlier today - listened to Eric Clapton's Unplugged album...hmm, not bad, I thought. Now I'm back at my usual listening spot, listening to the same album with HD650 and Woo 6SE...holy cow! I did not realize before how much difference there was between the HK receiver and the Woo. It feels like I just got a thorough ear cleansing: so much more transparency, liveliness, detail...totally immersive...it really feels like I'm there. Just had to share.


----------



## dannie01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was forced to plug in my Senn HD650 to my HK receiver for a listen earlier today - listened to Eric Clapton's Unplugged album...hmm, not bad, I thought. Now I'm back at my usual listening spot, listening to the same album with HD650 and Woo 6SE...holy cow! I did not realize before how much difference there was between the HK receiver and the Woo. It feels like I just got a thorough ear cleansing: so much more transparency, liveliness, detail...totally immersive...it really feels like I'm there. Just had to share. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 Cheers peanuthead. You should say what tube combination is now sitting on your 6SE, wondering which make you so happy, must be the "Princess", must be a gal, right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding, to all MOD, forgive my words.


----------



## peanuthead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dannie01* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Cheers peanuthead. You should say what tube combination is now sitting on your 6SE, wondering which make you so happy, must be the "Princess", must be a gal, right?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding, to all MOD, forgive my words.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm currently enjoying Sophia Princess with GE NOS 6DE7 tubes. I've tried RCA 6FD7, Raytheon 6DE7, United 6EW7, and to be honest, I've liked them all, and don't have a clear favorite, although I may prefer 6EW7's for jazz and classical...
 I've found Raytheon 6DE7 to be the most hard hitting and impactful, United 6EW7 to be most spacious with slight bass emphasis, but not as much bass impact, and RCA 6FD7 to be somewhere in between. I like the GE 6DE7 as a good "all arounder."
 Sophia Princess, well, no need to tube roll there.


----------



## Orcin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *peanuthead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It feels like I just got a thorough ear cleansing: so much more transparency, liveliness, detail...totally immersive...it really feels like I'm there. Just had to share. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just listened to Radiohead (Best Of) on my rig, and I have to agree. It was a wonderful experience. Transparent, lively, detailed... ditto!


----------



## airstream66

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ferraro25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought that perhaps the WA6 would change my mind on that. The D7000 was something unique, though - if I were to give up all dynamic headphones to keep just one at this point, it would be for the D7000, since it offers something an electrostat most likely cannot (powerful, impactful, head-shaking, yet very textured and refined, bass).

 But I'm probably being too quick to judge the WA6. Hopefully it will improve over the next ninety-something hours (100 hours recommended burn-in time)._

 

I wasn't totally jazzed with my Senn 650s w/stock WA6 + Sophia until I started using Pico's DAC to feed it. If you don't have a Sophia you might look at trying one and also look at a different DAC. I've never heard the EMU. The Pico brought more and better bass and so did the Sophia over stock rectifier. Also, not sure what power cord you are using on the WA6. The 650 may not have the sig you like and may sound "thick" to you, but that is one of the things I like about it. I like the balance and the palpable mid-bass. I'm switching between the Volex 17604 power cable and the Iron-Lung Jellyfish. Both are better than the random cord I was using. The Jellyfish seems more punchy and the Volex seems to bring out mids. I do think the WA6 has improved over time and especially recently and I should be several hundred hours into it by now, so there may be improvements to come even after the 100 hour mark.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *airstream66* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wasn't totally jazzed with my Senn 650s w/stock WA6 + Sophia until I started using Pico's DAC to feed it. If you don't have a Sophia you might look at trying one and also look at a different DAC. I've never heard the EMU. The Pico brought more and better bass and so did the Sophia over stock rectifier. Also, not sure what power cord you are using on the WA6. The 650 may not have the sig you like and may sound "thick" to you, but that is one of the things I like about it. I like the balance and the palpable mid-bass. I'm switching between the Volex 17604 power cable and the Iron-Lung Jellyfish. Both are better than the random cord I was using. The Jellyfish seems more punchy and the Volex seems to bring out mids. I do think the WA6 has improved over time and especially recently and I should be several hundred hours into it by now, so there may be improvements to come even after the 100 hour mark._

 

I am using the Iron-Lung Jellyfish with my Woo WA6, and the Shunyata Viper with my Woo GES. I have never bothered to compare power cables. Hmmm...


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## airstream66

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using the Iron-Lung Jellyfish with my Woo WA6, and the Shunyata Viper with my Woo GES. I have never bothered to compare power cables. Hmmm..._

 

I would not really have believed that a power cable would affect sound but I did notice a difference when I went from the unknown cable I was using to the Volex. For instance, with triple.fi's on the WA6 I was getting a slight but very distinct and noticeable (and annoying) hum or buzz on the left channel with the unknown cable (an 18 gauge unshielded cable that looks almost like the Volex). Could not isolate what was causing it. Could not hear it with any of my full sized cans, just the triple.fi's. When I changed to the Volex, hum was gone. I think the Volex is shielded and the Jellyfish is not (could be wrong). Both of them basically knocked out the hum and the background now feels blacker. Actually felt as though I had to turn amp volume knob up further with the Volex when I put it on. Then after about 24 hours plugged in, seems like the volume came back. Do not know if this is real or imagined but there is no disputing the improvement from both cables over the cable I had on there to start with.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *airstream66* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would not really have believed that a power cable would affect sound but I did notice a difference when I went from the unknown cable I was using to the Volex. For instance, with triple.fi's on the WA6 I was getting a slight but very distinct and noticeable (and annoying) hum or buzz on the left channel with the unknown cable (an 18 gauge unshielded cable that looks almost like the Volex). Could not isolate what was causing it. Could not hear it with any of my full sized cans, just the triple.fi's. When I changed to the Volex, hum was gone. I think the Volex is shielded and the Jellyfish is not (could be wrong). Both of them basically knocked out the hum and the background now feels blacker. Actually felt as though I had to turn amp volume knob up further with the Volex when I put it on. Then after about 24 hours plugged in, seems like the volume came back. Do not know if this is real or imagined but there is no disputing the improvement from both cables over the cable I had on there to start with._

 

With the Iron-Lung Jellyfish cable I can listen to my WA6 with my Westone ES3X customs and hear no noise or hum or hiss. So, I have been happy with it.


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## WittyzTH

I'm using the VD Power3 with my WA6SE now. If I plan to change it, probably it's about the looks and construction (The VD is too stiff.)


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## takezo

jack just confirmed the 6sn7 works with the wa6 with an adapter that he'll be able to
 provide in the near future. he hasn't confirmed that it'll work with the wa6 SE though and
 i haven't been able to run it very successfully. there's just not enough current thru the
 output section.


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## thechungster

Does the stock WA6 pair up well with Grados? I've searched and haven't found anything on Grados, but mostly Sennheisers.


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## Gibertus Jeunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thechungster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the stock WA6 pair up well with Grados? I've searched and haven't found anything on Grados, but mostly Sennheisers._

 

I'm also interested in the answer!


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gibertus Jeunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also interested in the answer!_

 

YES, very well.


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## h.rav

^ +2


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## gt67

Hi guys,

 please excuse my ignorance as I am new to this headphone amp lark but I am going to place an order for the WA6 with pdps upgrade next week but I keep reading about this "maxed out" term.

 Can someone please let me know what mods the WA6 would have for it to be classed as maxed out? I may go for it depending on how much extra it costs.

 Thanks for any help,

 Graham


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## h.rav

^ There were premium parts upgrade package and teflon tube sockets upgrade, I guess they prioritize the parts for their more expensive models. Don't bother with Teflon sockets, the stock sockets on newer models are perfectly fine.


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## ultraman9000

Not sure if this has been noted elsewhere, but I just noted that partsconnexion is having some sort of Black Friday sale through midnight this evening (eConneXion November 2009 Newsletter). I am in no way affiliated with the business, but noticed that they have some fair deals on blackgates and such, and have seen a lot of the mod-it-yourself Woo owners mention those... now if only I had any idea about all this, I could invest in some possible upgrades for my soon-to-arrive WA6


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## ultraman9000

D'oh! That link, as it was supposed to show up, is:
eConneXion November 2009 Newsletter
 Sorry 'bout that!


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## RockinCannoisseur

nice review bump


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## Xcalibur255

Since this thread was bumped again recently I just wanted to say I've found it invaluable, both for future tube rolling advice and to get a feel on what I'd be gaining from going to a Woo amp in the first place.

 I already own a Channel Islands VHP2 which is well regarded and a very competent SS amp. It won't run with the best, but then again it isn't priced up there with them either. Trouble is I find everything to sound a bit dry and thin on it, and my K701s are flat out unenjoyable to listen to at all. I really don't think the amp is to blame, it is very dynamic and transparent as it should be. My hearing is very sensitive in the upper midrange and lower treble so things that should sound balanced seem thin and bright to me.

 I recently found bliss in a tripath based integrated amp for my speaker setup, it has all the qualities of a good SS amp, but there is just a little something extra there..... something hard to describe that makes it sound musical and euphoric. I'm basically trying to gain this for my headphone setup as well. I don't necessarily want a glowing super "tubey" sound per se because I value the good dynamics and speed of a quality amp in general. I just want to mix some of that sense of euphoria in that makes the sound feel effortless..... like you want to sink into your chair when you listen. After reading literally hundreds of pages of posts my gut tells me a WA6 /w PDPS is the right ticket for me, probably with a tube roll to RCA 6FD7s once it breaks in and an eventual upgrade to the Sophia Princess.

 I'd love to hear opinions from others though. My greatest fear is that I'll get the Woo and it will sound very similar to my VHP2 overall. That wouldn't be a negative towards the Woo since it just means it is a very competent amp that isn't sucking the dynamics and detail out of the presentation with an overly syrupy sound. I just want to feel certain that I'm going to hear that extra little bit of magic I'm looking for. I don't make a lot of money these days so I have to plan my hobby purchases carefully. Do you guys think the Woo6 is the ticket for me?


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## tosehee

If you can find the local meetup to try out the Woo, that's the best way to find out for yourself. 

 Other than that, SS and Tube amps have a different sound signature. I used to own pretty good SS amps, but I also find it little dry and edgy at mid to treble area. I am now switching back to tube amp for the very same reason.

 Good thing with the tube is, you can tailor to your own taste by tube rolling, but then again, you need to spend more to play around with those..


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## regal

The most important upgrade going to the SE model is the better powersupply allows then to eliminate the Whites Cathode Follower. Google WCF, general consensus is the stage hurts SQ.


 Does anyone know the gain of the SE with the 32 ohm out and Grados?


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## Xcalibur255

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can find the local meetup to try out the Woo, that's the best way to find out for yourself._

 

A major disadvantage of living in south dakota is not being able to hear any of this gear in person before buying. Everything is just too far away for a demo to be practical.


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## Xcalibur255

Judging by the deafening silence it seems I just need to make up my own mind about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A question for Woo 6 owners though: how do you like piano on your amp? I'm wondering how the weight of the hammer strike and the decay of a sustain note sound on it. This one thing probably matters more to me than anything else.


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Xcalibur255* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Judging by the deafening silence it seems I just need to make up my own mind about this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A question for Woo 6 owners though: how do you like piano on your amp? I'm wondering how the weight of the hammer strike and the decay of a sustain note sound on it. This one thing probably matters more to me than anything else._

 

I am very happy with it - pianos, drums, strings, vocals - you name it and I like the way it does them.


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## Suprfly2k

Everything is broken in and sounding fantastic!


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## buson160man

etherealapril said:


> It looks like a Cyrus to me.
> 
> Sclamb, are those Herbies Audio Lab dampers on your tubes? They look like a pretty cool little tweak. Have you noticed any sound improvement from using them?


 

  I have some experience with the rx-9 tube dampers from herbies audio labs. They do work and I got a noticeable improvement when using them. Things tightened up and there was definitely an improvement in the sound of my amp. By the way I have a ray samuels raptor otl and I am using the tube dampers on the output tubes of my raptor. I am using a eat tube damper on the input tube of the raptor as well.
   I believe them to be a worthwhile upgrade for tube amps.


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## seldenr

All: I think this thread has not been posted for some time, but I stumbled across it while researching, with an intent to purchase the WA6SE.  Reason for posting:  I once owned an Art Audio PX25 amplifier (single ended, using the PX25 tube for 6 whopping glorious watts).  It shipped with a pair of Sophia 274B tubes as rectifiers.  However, at their suggestion, I had them ship a pair of CV378 rectifier tubes, and WOW, the improvement was fantastic, and very unexpected.  I would not have dreamed that a pair of rectifier tubes could make such an improvement to sound.  
  
 So I asked Jack if the WA6 SE would accept the CV378 rectifier tube as a replacement.  He said yes, it would.  So maybe some of you with either version of the WA6 might want to try the CV378 and report back?


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