# Power conditioners/regenerators - let's talk about clean power



## Jozurr

Since we don't already have a thread for this, maybe we should since it's a very important aspect to getting cleaner sound.
  
 What power conditioner or regenerator do yo use? What is your chain and what are it's effects on your chain? Would you recommend it?
  
 Maybe we can even come up with a list of recommendations under $500, $500-$1000, $1000-$2000, $2000+


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## Jozurr

Reserved.


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## geoffalter11

I need recommendations. I here both sides of the a argument. Some say it is super important, others say it helps to extract the last bit of detail. Others say the fact most if not all homes have a lot of open wiring that it makes no difference. I see the idea of protecting my investments a worthwhile venture. In the $500 range, what is a good value? What are the benefits? How much improvement in sound can be had?


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## sharktopus

I've heard quite good things about Furman's products, and some of them are quite inexpensive.  I've seen a number of them in various bands/venues racks of fancy pants (read lots-o-$$$) electronics.  One of my buddies has this one and likes it quite a lot. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GI7NC/ref=s9_acsd_al_bw_c_x_1_w
  
 I was talking to one of the reps of a very high-end audio store here in Denver recently about power conditioning, and one of the cool features that a few of the furman ones have (I don't remember exactly which, but I can check) is the ability to boost your amp's power.  By this, I mean that they have some capacitors inside that allow for a constant output of power regardless of fluctuations in the mains, and can also provide a bit more oompf if the amp needs it for a particularly dynamic section of music.  I think that this is mostly geared towards people with speaker setups though, and may not be as useful for people in headphone-land.  Though if you live in California and are plagued by brownouts, etc. then maybe it would be worth looking into, I'm not sure.
  
 Also, aside from power conditioning, I have always had surge protectors of some sort on my amps, dacs, computers, etc.  I have had two friends and my cousins' house all get hit with power surges or nearby lightning strikes that took out essentially every electronic thing they owned.  Computers, phones, the lot.  I can't afford to replace my nice stuff, so I use surge protectors on what I really want to keep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Well, that's my two cents on the topic!
  
 Also, some of the rack-mount power conditioners (across brands) have nifty little lights that pop out of the front (and sometimes the back) when you want some light on the subject.


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## johnzz4

sharktopus said:


> I've heard quite good things about Furman's products, and some of them are quite inexpensive.  I've seen a number of them in various bands/venues racks of fancy pants (read lots-o-$$$) electronics.  One of my buddies has this one and likes it quite a lot. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GI7NC/ref=s9_acsd_al_bw_c_x_1_w
> 
> I was talking to one of the reps of a very high-end audio store here in Denver recently about power conditioning, and one of the cool features that a few of the furman ones have (I don't remember exactly which, but I can check) is the ability to boost your amp's power.  By this, I mean that they have some capacitors inside that allow for a constant output of power regardless of fluctuations in the mains, and can also provide a bit more oompf if the amp needs it for a particularly dynamic section of music.  I think that this is mostly geared towards people with speaker setups though, and may not be as useful for people in headphone-land.  Though if you live in California and are plagued by brownouts, etc. then maybe it would be worth looking into, I'm not sure.
> 
> ...


 That's their Power Factor correction which is a feature on the Furman Elite 15 PFi I am parting with. They have a capacitor with reserve energy and a low output impedance on the four power factor corrected outlets - they are also the most dynamic and best sounding of all the outlets IMO. Made a huge difference..enough where I was comfortable spending some more $$ on a power solution. If you have a budget of $1500, the deal on music direct for the PS Audio P3 is excellent. My research for the best conditioner under $1k which was my original budget led me to the Furman which costs $750 new - specifically the one with power factor correction.


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## Jozurr

johnzz4 said:


> That's their Power Factor correction which is a feature on the Furman Elite 15 PFi I am parting with. They have a capacitor with reserve energy and a low output impedance on the four power factor corrected outlets - they are also the most dynamic and best sounding of all the outlets IMO. Made a huge difference..enough where I was comfortable spending some more $$ on a power solution. If you have a budget of $1500, the deal on music direct for the PS Audio P3 is excellent. My research for the best conditioner under $1k which was my original budget led me to the Furman which costs $750 new - specifically the one with power factor correction.


 
  
 How much of an improvement did you feel between the Furman and the P3?


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## johnzz4

jozurr said:


> How much of an improvement did you feel between the Furman and the P3?


Not as much as I was hoping. I haven't tried to A/B, but the P3 may be a very little bit more dynamic..Maybe. I am in love with with all the power monitoring that the P3 does though. Sound quality specifically, the Furman is a much better value. They also have a unlimited connected equipment warranty after $500 deductable. I haven't seen anything about a connected equipment warranty from PS Audio.


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## Jozurr

johnzz4 said:


> Not as much as I was hoping. I haven't tried to A/B, but the P3 may be a very little bit more dynamic..Maybe. I am in love with with all the power monitoring that the P3 does though. Sound quality specifically, the Furman is a much better value. They also have a unlimited connected equipment warranty after $500 deductable. I haven't seen anything about a connected equipment warranty from PS Audio.


 
  
 Thank you. Do you think that the price difference between the P3 and the Furman was worth it to you?
  
 I have ordered the Elite 20 PFi from Furman. I will post updates of what effects it has on my system, if any. Currently I don't use any power conditioners. I never had trouble in the newer house that I used to live in, but not it seems the power isn't as clean.


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## johnzz4

jozurr said:


> Thank you. Do you think that the price difference between the P3 and the Furman was worth it to you?
> 
> I have ordered the Elite 20 PFi from Furman. I will post updates of what effects it has on my system, if any. Currently I don't use any power conditioners. I never had trouble in the newer house that I used to live in, but not it seems the power isn't as clean.




At the discounted rate for the P3, yes. At full price, I don't think I would have gone for it. You need the 20amp? Could have grabbed mine and saved some $$ if all you needed was 15 amps. Regardless, I think you'll like it. The non-PF outlets are smoother but definitely compress dynamics. My preference was to plug all the audio equipment in the PF bank.


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## Benny-x

There is a MASSIVE thread on this topic over on CA that's been going on for like a year. Some of it gets pretty heavy and there are some deep comparisons for pages, but it's the defacto place i look for this now. 

I'd recommend reading up on that one and then 2-3 others about network isolation and vibration damping. All on CA.


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## sharktopus

What exactly is CA?  Other than Canada, that is


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## Jozurr

johnzz4 said:


> At the discounted rate for the P3, yes. At full price, I don't think I would have gone for it. You need the 20amp? Could have grabbed mine and saved some $$ if all you needed was 15 amps. Regardless, I think you'll like it. The non-PF outlets are smoother but definitely compress dynamics. My preference was to plug all the audio equipment in the PF bank.


 
  
 I think the more power reserve would be helpful. I have studio monitors etc all hooked up to my wall too at the moment.
  
 Did you have noisy A/C or even with quieter power you still felt there was improvement?


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## DancingBlue

sharktopus said:


> What exactly is CA?  Other than Canada, that is


 
  
 I'm guessing computeraudiophile.com


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## DelsFan

Because I found it used on Craigslist (and then read about it before purchasing), a couple of years ago I bought a PS Audio Duet Power Conditioner for $125 approx. (four outlets total, $299 list?). Into this unit I plugged in my cable/satellite receiver, Blu-Ray player, ZVOX soundbase (second from their top model), and television.  (Using $200/meter Wireworld analog interconnects and/or $105 Digital Coax cable from Kimber (DV-30) to deliver signal from source to soundbase.)
  
 I only did A/B testing playing CDs in my Blu-Ray player, but found a small but clear degree of improvement in sound quality.  Specifically, everything was a bit tighter, there was a bit of air between instruments, strings sounded really like strings etc., and I could a bit more plainly hear instruments in the background that were either far in the background before or nearly unintelligible.  Using upgraded (Wireworld) interconnects made a small difference, using my Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord to supply power to the Duet made a small difference.
  
 I only recently plugged my television into the power conditioner; I should do some A/B testing with and without the Duet with my Panasonic Plasma but haven't.
  
 I expect to receive on Monday an *IsoTech IVO 3 Sirius Power Conditioning Strip.*  I will try and report my thoughts between it and the (less expensive) PS Audio Duet.  After that, I'll compare the IVO3 Sirius to using nothing but a plain $10 power strip.  For these tests I'll use my Linn Genki CD player instead of the Blu-Ray player for audio testing!
  
 My first advice is, find a decent used power conditioner and buy it - see what it does in your system.  Then, if you can borrow a better one, or have a friend or acquaintance come over with his for an hour or so, again see if you can tell a difference.  My thought is, you should spend $100 to $300 to $1000 (maybe used) on "something", and whatever you intelligently select will probably be a long ways better than doing nothing.  I would have not (last week) purchased something better than the Duet, but I'm hoping to put together a nice headphone system so a) I needed something better, and b) I knew my four-outlet thrifty purchased-used device wasn't going to be enough anymore.
  
 I'll report back next week with a comparison between the $300 Duet and the $900 IVO3 Sirius.


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## Jozurr

delsfan said:


> Because I found it used on Craigslist (and then read about it before purchasing), a couple of years ago I bought a PS Audio Duet Power Conditioner for $125 approx. (four outlets total, $299 list?). Into this unit I plugged in my cable/satellite receiver, Blu-Ray player, ZVOX soundbase (second from their top model), and television.  (Using $200/meter Wireworld analog interconnects and/or $105 Digital Coax cable from Kimber (DV-30) to deliver signal from source to soundbase.)
> 
> I only did A/B testing playing CDs in my Blu-Ray player, but found a small but clear degree of improvement in sound quality.  Specifically, everything was a bit tighter, there was a bit of air between instruments, strings sounded really like strings etc., and I could a bit more plainly hear instruments in the background that were either far in the background before or nearly unintelligible.  Using upgraded (Wireworld) interconnects made a small difference, using my Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord to supply power to the Duet made a small difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Would be very interested in your thoughts. 
  
 I have the Furman Elite 20PFi coming in and Ill see what difference it makes, if any. I have yet to get some decent power cords though.


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## fliz (Jan 21, 2020)

removed


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## fliz

double post (and I can't figure out how to delete it)


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## Speedskater

In most homes, well designed audio equipment doesn't need power conditioners. Almost never is there a need for a regenerator


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## Jozurr

My Furman Elite 20 PFi came in. I didn't think I'd notice any improvement but there is some clarity to the overall sound and the background has went pretty black. Empty passages in audio are pretty darn quiet. I also feel that the amps are reacting well to sudden peaks and the audio doesn't sound as "sucked in" in those sections as it used to. The conditioner stays in the chain.


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## geoffalter11

jozurr said:


> My Furman Elite 20 PFi came in. I didn't think I'd notice any improvement but there is some clarity to the overall sound and the background has went pretty black. Empty passages in audio are pretty darn quiet. I also feel that the amps are reacting well to sudden peaks and the audio doesn't sound as "sucked in" in those sections as it used to. The conditioner stays in the chain.


 
 nice. i noticed a darker background and improved clarity when I installed my monster mp2000.  I didn't spend a lot, but the dfference was noticeable.


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## Middy (Apr 30, 2017)

Power upgrading can be quite dramatic in some cases and very subtle in others. Where you live, how your house is wired,  what's on the line you have..
I have listened to others advice and dipped my toe in and with this hobby it can add up.
A balanced isolation transformer from Airlink was the greatest boost powering my amp DAC. Acting like a filter splitting power down the middle an mixing it back removing some noise in opposite phase. The lower the windings capacitance the greater the higher frequency filtering. The Elgar Topaz have the lower capacitance windings  but can be a little loud with hum for some.
The Airlink is quite quiet but a DC FILTER reduced it to almost inaudible and improved the out put of the Transformer.
I have the Power inspired AG500, this outputs sine wave 230 v. The effect was more subtle but added to the SQ.

As big an impovement was cleaning up the USB 5v Battery powered did nothing really. The intona helped clean up the incoming signal. But again no free lunch on the  cost of the  uptone LPS-1.

I got it in advance of the ISO regen but feeding the intona with a mini 5v hack from IFI woke it up. I have an Sbooster LPS 12V but it took a DC IPURIFIER and the above sine and balanced kit to make it shine over just feeding the internal switching supply of my brooklyn amp dac.
No giant leaps in fidelity  but each step helped. The UK uses a ring main.. a giant looped cable for different parts of the home...  some countries don't..
 The time of day effects power snd it does fluctuate in your local area and each upgrade is a factor against what you have.
I tried custom power cables and can't say I heard anything.
I have bought one after another experimenting a long chain of improvement. Enough to have splashed out more on a better piece of kit... but I have invested in something that can stay were the urge to buy the latest greatest can remain but this is a backbone to support the next in this musical journey.
More expensive gear normally has better designed internal power custom made but the cost is high.
You can only convince people by letting them see for themselves. Cables really put me off wanting to try after feeling ripped off. Pro studios use balanced isolation so that was the push to try it out.. As always if you can borrow one and use it on your setup.
One thing though,  this is great for digital side of your amp or Dac but not driving power amps for speakers so I am told.
You need just plug direct into the wall.

I hope this helps a little and at least gets you thinking and researching for yourselves...
Vinnie Rossi does  a super cap supply now 
Not.much help but a start at least.
Good luck
Dave


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## davelarz

I have been curious about power conditioning for years but always shy away from spending the dough because I hear people saying it's very system dependent and also that is has the capacity to degrade the sound. Anyone else experience this?


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## snellemin

I'm using a SurgeX and like it.  Works great in my old house.  Didn't really need one in my previous house.  Not bad for a 120 dollar investment.


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## dcguy73 (Dec 5, 2017)

For an experiment with power regenerators, I recently bought a giant lithium-ion battery power generator with two IEC outlets that output pure sine waves. I plugged my headphone setup (via Furman power conditioner) into one of the outlets and used the other for a direct connection to my headphone amp. To my surprise, it made a huge difference in the sound.

I wasn't expecting much, but the audio from my system sounded much cleaner and clearer, even at lower volumes. The amp sounded better when plugged directly into the power generator versus being plugged into the power conditioner. Not sure if the battery portion of the power generator made a difference.

I live in a condo building that was built in the 1940s. I do not have a dedicated line for my audio equipment. I suspect that while the power in my building is up to code, there is still a lot of noise present, which explains why the regenerator changed the sound of my system for the better.

As a result of my experiment, I decided to invest in a PS Audio regenerator to provide further upgrades in the sound of my headphone system. Looking forward to testing it out when it arrives.


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## fliz (Jan 21, 2020)

removed


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## jdev (Dec 5, 2017)

Upgrading my outlet to the Furutech GTX-D NCF made a huge difference in my system, on par with my DAC upgrade from an STX ii to Gumby. I was running off an outlet that has probably been in this place since it was built in the 70s. I could have maybe gotten away with a cheapo new one from the hardware store for $5, but that's not how this hobby works! Ha.
 I've upgraded to hifi tuning supreme fuses, wireworld power cables, headphone cables to silver and all of those left me wondering how much of a difference is really being made. As soon as I cranked on that Furutech outlet tho, it was epic, like tears rolling down my face beautiful.

edit: I had Jellyfish power cables when I upgraded to that Furutech outlet and then got the Wireworlds after, so the WireWorlds might have cleaned it up. Never tested it.


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## fliz

jdev said:


> Upgrading my outlet to the Furutech GTX-D NCF made a huge difference in my system, on par with my DAC upgrade from an STX ii to Gumby. I was running off an outlet that has probably been in this place since it was built in the 70s. I could have maybe gotten away with a cheapo new one from the hardware store for $5, but that's not how this hobby works! Ha.
> I've upgraded to hifi tuning supreme fuses, wireworld power cables, headphone cables to silver and all of those left me wondering how much of a difference is really being made. As soon as I cranked on that Furutech outlet tho, it was epic, like tears rolling down my face beautiful.
> 
> edit: I had Jellyfish power cables when I upgraded to that Furutech outlet and then got the Wireworlds after, so the WireWorlds might have cleaned it up. Never tested it.



Did you go straight from a lowe's crap outlet to the furutech or did you try other audiophile outlets on your way to it?

I asked my stereo builder about them and he said when he compared the Furutech to a porter port, he preferred the porter port (of course ymmv)


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## jdev (Dec 5, 2017)

fliz said:


> Did you go straight from a lowe's crap outlet to the furutech or did you try other audiophile outlets on your way to it?
> 
> I asked my stereo builder about them and he said when he compared the Furutech to a porter port, he preferred the porter port (of course ymmv)


It was worse than a lowe's crap outlet. It was a whatever crap outlets they had 30 years ago after 30 years of use. I went straight to the Furutech. I didn't even know about the porterhouse, or I'd have tried them because the Furutech NCF was like 6x what the porter costs. Oh yeah and it comes with a special mounting bracket and NCF cover plate for a mere double the price. I skipped those.


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## fliz

jdev said:


> It was worse than a lowe's crap outlet. It was a whatever crap outlets they had 30 years ago after 30 years of use. I went straight to the Furutech. I didn't even know about the porterhouse, or I'd have tried them because the Furutech NCF was like 6x what the porter costs. Oh yeah and it comes with a special mounting bracket and NCF cover plate for a mere double the price. I skipped those.



Heh.. I seriously want those just because they're sexy looking. I was disappointed when my stereo builder said the porter ports sounded better.

Shame on me. lol.


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## DelsFan (Dec 7, 2017)

davelarz said:


> I have been curious about power conditioning for years but always shy away from spending the dough because I hear people saying it's very system dependent and also that is has the capacity to degrade the sound. Anyone else experience this?


I haven't yet had time to compare my new IsoTech IVO 3 Sirius Power Conditioning Strip with its successor (in my house, of course they are made by two different manufacturers), the PS Audio Duet ($125 used).  I am behind on some home projects and the edict has come down: no $2150 Dragon Inspire headphone amp or $2999 HE-1000 headphones until "certain criteria are met!"  Not that the wife knows it will take $5K plus another $3K for ancillary products such as headphone cable and dedicated circuits, etc. to get the job done.  So instead of comparing the two, when the IsoTech unit arrived I just took the Duet out and inserted the IsoTek unit and went on about my other business.  But I digress.

I will say this, and it is only my experience or opinion:
I've never failed to notice an improvement in sound when adding in a $40 Iron Lung Jellyfish power cord, or a $200 pair of RCA interconnects, or $100 to $300 set of speaker wires - as an upgrade from "nothing".
- Either the bass tightens up, or the vocals are clearer, or the imaging improves, or there is more space between instruments, or I hear harmonies I almost couldn't hear before.  Sometimes what was a guitar, before the upgrade, has become a guitar that is "right there" in the room with me.  I know one can be influenced by the money they've just spent on cables, but when I hear something I didn't hear before, after an upgrade, I'm suggesting that isn't due to my biased expectation that more $$ should equal better sound.  My advice for anyone who really enjoys recorded music and has anything resembling half-decent equipment is this: unless something strange is going on you should always hear an improvement when upgrading the stock cords or interconnects with a well-received product from a reputable manufacturer.

If you don't spend at least a little money on these upgrades you are missing out on the next least-expensive best upgrade to your system.  There are always used entry-level cords and interconnects and cables for sale from people upgrading to the next level of "accessories."  (Or, the level after that, or the level after that, all the way to the level of ridiculous.)  You don't have to spend much to improve your good basic system's sound.

- Years ago I started with a reasonable (depending on your perspective) two channel system starting with a Linn Sondek turntable.  My experience started there, and progressed.
However, at the low end of the scale:
- In my family room I have (the simple setup of) a 55" Panasonic Plasma placed on top of the second from best ZVOX sound base.  I started out with 10 year-old $200/set Wireworld interconnects just because I had them laying around.  They offered an improvement one could hear (playing CDs through $169 Panasonic Blu-Ray player).
- Several months later I saw the PS Audio Duet (four outlets) on Craigslist for $125, so I bought it.  You have to listen with and without, to the same music, but the difference in sound quality is not hard to discern at all when you do that.
- Recently I purchased a new (to me) power cord for the ZVOX sound base, since none of the six I had laying around had the requisite IEC C7 end.  I think it was from the Venom series, maybe $125 new.  Another small improvement in sound quality.  When I get caught up I'm going to purchase some wire and a male end and a female C7 end and try my hand at building a power cord for comparison.
- Back when I had a two-channel setup (well, I still have it - it just isn't set up!), every ten years or so I'd upgrade speaker wire (once necessitated by replacing my four Advent speakers with something by Mirage, then ultimately Thiel CS2s).  Each time there was an improvement from what I had previously been using.
- OH, yes; I purchased some vibrapods.  Under my CD player and tube amp, they provided another tightening up of the bass and sound quality overall.
- I'm going to say I've never paid more than $200 for any "tweak", and when upgrading from the cheapo cord or cable or interconnect I've never failed to be satisfied with the improvement vs the amount of money invested.

One last note.  A friend came by with his Schitt DAC for me to try, since I'm in the market.  Just using my ZVOX sound base and Linn Genki turntable we listened to a few artists, mostly Diana Krall, and made our observations.  Of course, with his "good" but not terribly expensive DAC we could hear an improvement.
Sadly, at the end he asked if I wanted to hear his new Kimber KS series RCA interconnect (between DAC and Sound Base).  At $950 for a half meter I was skeptical.  It was shocking the difference it made; a decent background (or lack thereof) became completely black, like when you were a kid in the cave and you turned out your flashlight - like in the vacuum of space black.

It's OK to be skeptical, but don't discount (to yourself, or others) the difference "wire" can make if you've never had the opportunity to compare good... or stupid expensive... cables in a decent system.

I'm convinced enough that for my new headphone setup I'm going to run two dedicated circuits with audiophile grade 12 gauge wire from my breaker box, terminating with Furutech outlets - and ground wires for each new receptacle not going to my breaker box but out the crawl space vent (the run is short) to their own dedicated copper ground rods ($20 each and a little muscle to drive the rod into the ground - why not?).  The current plan is to power my modem from the "regular" outlet, my router or ethernet switch from one dedicated outlet (we can compare with and without the "spare" Duet power conditioner), and my Streamer/DAC and tube-based headphone amplifier from the other dedicated outlet via the new ISOTek Sirius power conditioner.

Upon completion it will be easy to A/B test the new power delivery system:
Everything powered from one power strip hooked into the existing outlet
vs
the new setup described above.

It will be February before it all gets done, but I'll report back.


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## EuropeanEar

DelsFan said:


> My advice for anyone who really enjoys recorded music and has anything resembling half-decent equipment is this: unless something strange is going on you should always hear an improvement when upgrading the stock cords or interconnects with a well-received product from a reputable manufacturer.



100% agreed.


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## DelsFan (Dec 8, 2017)

Earlier I wrote:


> ...I'm convinced enough that for my new headphone setup I'm going to run two dedicated circuits with audiophile grade 12 gauge wire from my breaker box, terminating with Furutech outlets - and ground wires for each new receptacle *not going to my breaker box* but out the crawl space vent (the run is short) *to their own dedicated copper ground rods*...


Upon FUTHER REVIEW, and as my younger sister used to occasionally tell her children (and me for that matter), *"DON'T DO IT!"*

I finally read just a little more about isolating the ground from your one or two dedicated circuits and your circuit breaker box.  A couple of points were made that others might elaborate upon, but here is enough partial understanding for me to continue to pursue running dedicated circuits utilizing a "specially formulated" 12-2 plus ground wire (for example, DH Labs makes one which sells for $8/LF), terminating with Furutech, or similar, receptacles.  BUT, I feel I must abandon the idea of isolating my receptacle's ground from the main common ground in my circuit breaker box (the one to which every other noise-introducing circuit in my whole house is connected).  (I don't understand all of this, but "common" seems to be the imperative term here.)

1) I don't always do what the authorities recommend, sometimes they know little about what they are telling me to do.  In this case, in America it seems to be against the electrical code in probably every state and municipality to not have all the power receptacles (and everything else) fed by one's circuit breaker box grounded to the common ground for the whole house, contained in that same circuit breaker box.

1b) Sometimes I "do it anyway."  In this case, IF lightning struck my mid-priced suburban house and IF it burned down and IF the insurance company balked at paying because the cause of the fire might have been attributed to having two separate grounds for the electrical system in my house - I'll take a risk now and again, but, even in the pursuit of better sound, perhaps not for the entire value of my home.

2) I didn't spend enough time learning enough to write a doctoral dissertation about this, but it seems if the ground for a dedicated power supply for one's headphone system is not grounded back to the circuit breaker box - *the circuit breaker for your dedicated line won't trip as it should.*  Under extreme loads it might trip, but by then you've fried between $1000 and $10,000 worth of electronics.

3) Kind of the way I understand it: if lightning does strike your house and a large (usually colossal) current runs through your house's wiring, and the dedicated line is not grounded to the same grounding location in your circuit breaker box as all the other wiring in the house, to "close the loop" the current will try and travel between the two ground rods (which may be 30' or 100' apart) - without success.  No effective common ground, large electrical malfunction, some have written it is statistically not a bad way to accidentally get one's self killed, or like I said before, at the least burn down your house.

Point three is probably not 100% technically correct, but I did get the idea that having a power supply coming from one location and not grounding it back to that same location introduces a statistically significant - as opposed to one in a million - risk to both your life and your pocketbook.

SO!  I didn't read on about this possible work-around as I'm pushed for time (not that it shows here):
Perhaps one could run an additional ground wire from their dedicated duplex receptacle to a new ground rod, in addition to leaving the existing ground wire to my breaker box in place.  Before I install my dedicated line I'll read more.  Seemingly though, the simple solution in hi-fi audio is never viable; actually workable solutions are almost always more complicated and a lot more expensive.

CONCLUSION: If you are considering ways to "better" ground your dedicated duplex outlet, grounding the receptacle to its own copper ground rod instead of the breaker box introduces risks you really need to understand, and overcome (if that is even possible), before proceeding.



Here is a link to an article that I found interesting - even the author, and Nordost, seem to have backed away from installing a separate ground ONLY for a dedicated circuit.  The sad part, like all other "tweaks" for high-end audio, there does seem to be something "there" relating to improving your system's sound by finding and implementing ($$) a better way to ground your system.

http://nordost.com/blog/the-well-gr...arned-to-improve-my-sound-and-love-the-earth/

Nordost makes a QBase and QCore product that might address some of this; but right now I'm too depressed to look to see what they might cost.  I'm saying closer to the $10K I predict than the $0.10K I estimate my isolated ground solution would have cost.


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## fliz

DelsFan said:


> Earlier I wrote:
> 
> 2) I didn't spend enough time learning enough to write a doctoral dissertation about this, but it seems if the ground for a dedicated power supply for one's headphone system is not grounded back to the circuit breaker box - *the circuit breaker for your dedicated line won't trip as it should.*  Under extreme loads it might trip, but by then you've fried between $1000 and $10,000 worth of electronics.



What if you add a second ground bar INSIDE the breaker box and have it go to it's own ground rod right next to the other one?

This was what I just asked a bunch of different electricians quotes for earlier this week. I still haven't gotten an answer.


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## saddleup (Dec 9, 2017)

Power products are like cables.  The price is often not a reflection of performance.  And there is a lot of snake oil available for large amounts of money.  If you want no nonsense power conditioning I'd recommend Brickwall, https://www.brickwall.com/collections/surge-protectors-home-theater-hdtv.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zerosurge-and-brickwall-is-there-a-difference.834846/

The best value IMO and what I use are Powervar transformer based conditioners.  They are always available used on ebay for cents on the dollar.  I have 2 8.3s in my system. 
https://powervar.com/standard-power-conditioners/ https://powervar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Standard-PC-Sheet-Catalog.pdf


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## Speedskater

DelsFan said:


> "DON'T DO IT!"


Exactly never, ever add a ground rod that is not connected to the other ground rods near the service entrance/main breaker panel. While you can add as many ground rods as you like they must all be connected together at only one spot and that's near the main breaker panel. (it doesn't have to be a star connection, they can be daisy chained).

Ground rods are for protection during thunderstorms and other problems. I was just reading about Recreational Vehicles that need a ground rod in case of a hot skin problem.

Ground rods have nothing to do with day-to-day AC power quality.  Planet Earth is not a sink or sump for bad electricity.


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## Dobrescu George

I made an in-depth video review about the BAC400 from Plixir, if you need a nice power conditioner that can output 400 Watts, it should be really good!


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## geoffalter11

Nice review.  I have a Monster Pro 1000 conditioner.  Does anyone on this thread have experience with it and whether there is a lot of improvement from something else?  I am sure if I want to spend several thousands I will find more improvements, but at what point does it just become placebo?  I want my system to be the very best it can be for what I can afford.


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## Dobrescu George

geoffalter11 said:


> Nice review.  I have a Monster Pro 1000 conditioner.  Does anyone on this thread have experience with it and whether there is a lot of improvement from something else?  I am sure if I want to spend several thousands I will find more improvements, but at what point does it just become placebo?  I want my system to be the very best it can be for what I can afford.



What system do you have? As a rule of thumb, the more power it consumes, the more sensitive it tends to be to power conditioners. Your Monster Pro 1000 is pretty great already, should have helped quite a lot. 

The stuff from Plixir is top quality, but if you have a system that has high consumption , you need to go with something else than BAC400, it has only 400 wats of power at max which may not be enough


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## geoffalter11

Dobrescu George said:


> What system do you have? As a rule of thumb, the more power it consumes, the more sensitive it tends to be to power conditioners. Your Monster Pro 1000 is pretty great already, should have helped quite a lot.
> 
> The stuff from Plixir is top quality, but if you have a system that has high consumption , you need to go with something else than BAC400, it has only 400 wats of power at max which may not be enough


When I got the monster it helped a lot. Background became much quieter. My system currently consists of...
Imac running as music server
Schitt Wyrd
Vinshine R2R DAC
Cembalo Spring 1 Amp or Pathos Aurium


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## Dobrescu George

I made an in-depth review about the Plixir Elite BAC400 !  

It does a lot for most of my systems, at least this seems to be my final result after months of testing it  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...r-elite-bac-400-power-conditioner-review.html


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## arjuna93

davelarz said:


> I have been curious about power conditioning for years but always shy away from spending the dough because I hear people saying it's very system dependent and also that is has the capacity to degrade the sound. Anyone else experience this?



I got a used Musica Fool’s Gold 500 and it made a noticeable improvement. A caveat: I live in a rented place with old wiring and low-quality wall sockets.


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## MRHiFiReviews

Our latest YT video on our channel focuses on Clarus Audiophile Cables and Power Conditioners!  Give it a watch and don't forget to smash the like button and leave us a comment on the video.  We hope you have a wonderful rest of your weekend.


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## F208Frank

This thread could not have been better timed...

For people with experience, does a dedicated power line help more or a power conditioner/regenerator?

PS audio low key poops on conditioners but I still see many people having good results with conditioners, with popular ones from isotek and audioquest.

Anyone happen to have experience with both regenerators and conditioners?


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## Four Kneez

A representative from a power conditioner brand recommended that I purchase a 20A version of one of their products rather than the 15A version even though I have standard 15A outlets. Is that actually safe? If so, then what are the benefits of doing so?

In the same vein, would there be any benefit in going with, say, a Furman Elite-20 PF i over the Elite-15 PF i?


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