# Yarra Speaker System



## L8MDL

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/yarra3dx/yarra-3dx-the-most-advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the


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## Erik Garci (Nov 20, 2017)

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yarra-3dx-worlds-most-advanced-3d-audio-system-sound


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## AppleheadMay

Glad someone started a post about the Yarra!

Interesting concept to drive them through the Realiser like a headphone and let the Realiser do the decoding and DSP while the Yarra does the beamforming. I hope some interesting discussions about the matter comes up in this thread.

I ordered through Indiegogo.


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## yage

I ordered through Kickstarter. Really looking forward to setting up the Yarra and seeing how it fares. 

I'm not sure I follow about the Realiser - Yarra connection though. What's up with that?


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## Erik Garci (Nov 22, 2017)

yage said:


> I'm not sure I follow about the Realiser - Yarra connection though. What's up with that?


You would use the Realiser A16 to decode formats such as Dolby Atmos that the Yarra itself cannot decode, and use the Realiser's HRTF (PRIR) instead of the Yarra's HRTF to binauralize the multichannel audio. You would feed the Realiser's 2-channel binauralized output to the Yarra which beams it to your ears.


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## AppleheadMay

Yep, and as I understood this wouldn't work with stereo speakers as you have too much crossfeed there so that would annihilate the Reaslisers DSP effect.
The Yarra is a speaker that uses beamforming trying to prevent crossfeed as much as possible. which makes it act more like a headphone.
So that could make it pair well with the Realisers DSP for headphones.
At least that is what I understood from it, please correct me if I'm talking nonsens here folks.

In any case the Realiser was mentioned somehwere on the Kickstarter or Indiegogo page of these guys.


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## davidland

sodes


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## AppleheadMay

davidland said:


> sodes


Sodes?


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## camillem

I hope it will work well with my Smyth A16 to come !


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## AppleheadMay

Anybody got the survey where you choose color and voltage yet?
Didn't get it and these guys just don't reply to any emails.


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## L8MDL (Feb 22, 2018)

You might try posting your problem directly on their Kickstarter page since you are a backer. I received my survey a couple of months ago. Did you check your spam folder?

You might also try:
http://www.yarra3dx.com/contact/


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## Erik Garci

AppleheadMay said:


> Anybody got the survey where you choose color and voltage yet?
> Didn't get it and these guys just don't reply to any emails.


They didn't send surveys to people who ordered through Indiegogo, like you did. They mentioned on Indiegogo that they will get your choices another way.


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## AppleheadMay

Thanks for the info!
They could at least be so polite to reply though.


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## L8MDL

@apple - when I login on the Kickstarter page and go to "view pledge" there is a tab for "survey" and it shows my survey, dated 11/30. There is also a "contact" hotlink. You might check that out.


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## AppleheadMay

Thanks but that won't work for me as I ordered from Indiegogo.


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## L8MDL

Posted 4 days ago on the Indiegogo comments, from Dr. Mark Waldrep, the main contact person for the campaign:

"The selection of color, power standard and power plug type will be coming shortly. Indiegogo doesn’t do surveys (that was for Kickstarter) but I’ll poll everyone for this information."


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## AppleheadMay

L8MDL said:


> Posted 4 days ago on the Indiegogo comments, from Dr. Mark Waldrep, the main contact person for the campaign:
> 
> "The selection of color, power standard and power plug type will be coming shortly. Indiegogo doesn’t do surveys (that was for Kickstarter) but I’ll poll everyone for this information."




Thank you, that's good news then.

But it's not a good thing that they can't simply reply that to customers if they get an email.


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## sander99

mercury79 said:


> I can say that the people at Yarra show the Demo with one Smyth A8, i listen some binaural demos and was amazing since you dont have earphones and it makes the sound come from different directions!


Do I understand correctly: you heared the Yarra yourself? Could you tell us more about it? (Here in the Yarra thread, otherwise people in the A16 thread might complain again...)


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## mercury79

Sharing my impressions of Yarra, i post this on a Smyth topic since it is relative to both:

Yes i listen the Yarra sound bar at los angeles audio show last year, it seems was their first demo they made, the first demo i listen was a binaural audio where a girl whisper "Im at one meter from you, then she said im closer; then says im beside to you" i was really impressed because when she say im beside to you it really feels that was speaking closer to my ear i yell "this is black magic!" shut your mouth and take my money , then i tried the album sgt pepper by the beatles in 5.1 and a night at the opera by queen in 5.1, the guy who show me the yarra ask to me: "did you know whats is this, while he was changing the channels of the audio, from center to left to right to left rear and right???" i saw a piece of hardware that never seen in my life and when i look the brand says Smyth realiser, was the A8! the guy told me that the smyth decodes and send the signal to yarra for send the discrete beams of sound. when i came back to my home i search more about yarra and Smyth then i found that the A16 was in campaign and listen some people who tried before and post their experiences here and with the things i know about it at los angeles, i close my eyes and pull the trigger for the A16, im a crowfounder of yarra too so as many of here im waiting for the big day, i know that the patience will be rewarded so hope to have great news soon!


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## sander99

@mlkri:
(I think it is better to discuss this here rather than in the A16 thread)
I found something concerning your doubts in:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...most-advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/comments
(you may have to push the 'older comments' button on the bottom of the page one or more times):



> * Comhear Inc. Creator on March 14 *
> @Daniel Bisulca - Content that is already binaualized is ideal for the YARRA 3DX beamforming process. The left and right streams are directed to your ears without additional processing.
> 
> 
> ...


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## 462429

sander99 said:


> @mlkri:
> (I think it is better to discuss this here rather than in the A16 thread)
> I found something concerning your doubts in:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/project...most-advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/comments
> (you may have to push the 'older comments' button on the bottom of the page one or more times):


Thank you very much, @sander99, for the very useful links. Explanations of @creator are short and clear. However, they are not quite aligned with each other. First he says PCM to be the best input for Yarra and on another occasion it is already binauralised content which is ideal for Yarra. So, which is better - 'the best' or 'ideal'?!? And why don't they mention neither 'the best' nor 'ideal' input solution in their promotional 'Story' ?
My second concern - how can Yarra know that 2 ch input was already binauralised? And If it takes it as normal stereo, the loudspeakers' output is widespread and the binaural effect is gone.


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## sander99

I sent a mail to Mark Waldrep with some questions about this.


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## Erik Garci (Apr 23, 2018)

mlkri said:


> Thank you very much, @sander99, for the very useful links. Explanations of @creator are short and clear. However, they are not quite aligned with each other. First he says PCM to be the best input for Yarra and on another occasion it is already binauralised content which is ideal for Yarra. So, which is better - 'the best' or 'ideal'?!? And why don't they mention neither 'the best' nor 'ideal' input solution in their promotional 'Story' ?


Here is my understanding...
When he says PCM is better, he is comparing it to Dolby Digital which is lossy. PCM is uncompressed and generally better unless perhaps it was decoded from a lossy format.
When he says binaural content is better, he is comparing it to non-binaural content.


mlkri said:


> My second concern - how can Yarra know that 2 ch input was already binauralised? And If it takes it as normal stereo, the loudspeakers' output is widespread and the binaural effect is gone.


The Yarra does not know. When it receives any 2-channel input, it merely beams the left channel to your left ear, and the right channel to your right ear. Then your brain interprets any spatial cues in the content. Even regular stereo content has spatial cues, but they are usually more realistic in binaural content.


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## sander99

Erik Garci said:


> Here is my understanding...
> When he says PCM is better, he is comparing it to Dolby Digital which is lossy. PCM is uncompressed and generally better unless perhaps it was decoded from a lossy format.
> When he says binaural content is better, he is comparing it to non-binaural content.
> 
> The Yarra does not know. When it receives any 2-channel input, it merely beams the left channel to your left ear, and the right channel to your right ear. Then your brain interprets any spatial cues in the content. Even regular stereo content has spatial cues, but they are usually more realistic in binaural content.


All that is my understanding as well. Only when carefully looking at the yarra and kickstarter websites this (the part underlined above) is not stated very clearly, or at least I cannot find it. (Maybe it was told in the kickstarter live event video's? But I cannot find those anymore either.) That is why I decided to doublecheck it by asking Mark Waldrep some questions. I would feel guilty if some people decided to buy a Yarra based on what I thought I knew about it.
Erik, do you remember where exactly you found this information (except from that one question and answer on the kickstarters comments page that I quoted)?


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## 462429 (Apr 23, 2018)

Erik Garci said:


> The Yarra does not know. When it receives any 2-channel input, it merely beams the left channel to your left ear, and the right channel to your right ear. Then your brain interprets any spatial cues in the content. Even regular stereo content has spatial cues, but they are usually more realistic in binaural content.





sander99 said:


> All that is my understanding as well. Only when carefully looking at the yarra and kickstarter websites this (the part underlined above) is not stated very clearly, or at least I cannot find it. (Maybe it was told in the kickstarter live event video's? But I cannot find those anymore either.) That is why I decided to doublecheck it by asking Mark Waldrep some questions. I would feel guilty if some people decided to buy a Yarra based on what I thought I knew about it.
> Erik, do you remember where exactly you found this information (except from that one question and answer on the kickstarters comments page that I quoted)?


Yes, they mentioned 'widely dispersed stereo field', but for something like 'beaming of the stereo input', I'm also not sure ...


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## Erik Garci (Apr 25, 2018)

sander99 said:


> (Maybe it was told in the kickstarter live event video's? But I cannot find those anymore either.)


https://live.kickstarter.com/comhear-inc/live-stream/yarra-3dx-q-and-a
https://live.kickstarter.com/comhea...live-q-and-a-with-peter-otto-and-mark-waldrep


sander99 said:


> Erik, do you remember where exactly you found this information (except from that one question and answer on the kickstarters comments page that I quoted)?


Not exactly. Probably in the comments and live streams.

You can read all comments by Comhear at this link (without comments by other people)
https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/yarra3dx/comments


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## Erik Garci (Apr 25, 2018)

*Comhear Inc. Creator on September 15*
@robert - Surround sound sources are "binauralized" to maintain the proper immersive 3D localization and then projected using an array of small drivers to multiple listeners left and right ears. Each listener receives a full surround experience.

*Comhear Inc. Creator on September 28*
@Marco - If you connect the YARRA 3DX from a device that outputs multichannel audio (HDMI or USB), the unit will binauralize it and deliver it to your ears. You will be fully immersed in surround sound as if there were a full set of 5.1 speakers in the room. If you connect a stereo sound source — like the output of your iPhone or a turntable phono preamp, it doesn't magically convert the sound into surround. It does enhance the depth and imagery of traditional stereo because of the cross talk reduction.

*Comhear Inc. Creator on October 8*
@erik - The studio in West Los Angeles is my AIX Studio. It's been used by dozens of Smyth Realiser owners for measurements. The YARRA 3DX uses a "generic" HRTF for its binauralizing process...the combination with an A16 would defer to that device for a personalized binaural HRTF process. The YARRA 3DX would only deliver the sound to your ears instead of headphones.

*Comhear Inc. Creator on October 9*
@conrad Yonosenada - the YARRA 3DX only reproduced immersive 3D audio if the source material is multichannel like a 5.1 movie or music mix or a real-time game. If stereo material is input to the analog input, the YARRA 3DX will deliver a very wide and deep stereo image but not surround.

*Comhear Inc. Creator on October 23*
@Safwan Amin - Etienne is right. A stereo signal will remain a stereo signal but it is mapped into a "sound field" that copies the sound from a set of stereo speakers — much bigger sound than just the sound bar. Stereo sound amazing through the YARRA 3DX.

*Comhear Inc. Creator on November 1*
@Daniel Bisulca - The YARRA 3DX sound bar sounds really great on stereo material because it creates a sound field modeled on two large speakers in a space larger than the bar itself. With minimal crosstalk, the effect is very impressive.


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## L8MDL

FWIW they dropped multiple HDMI inputs and it will be delivered with a single HDMI input.


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## Dr. AIX

I regret not visiting Head-Fi.org earlier. I've been a member here for a long time but haven't visited or posted. I own and run AIX Records and operate AIX Studios in Los Angeles — many Smyth customers have been measured in my room (with great results). About 16 months ago, a long term friend from college (we both attended Cal Arts in the 1980s) showed me what he and some graduate students had developed at UCSD. It was a beamforming sound bar that could reproduce a 5.1 surround sound field without headphones. When I heard a few of my own "stage" perspective 5.1 mixes through the commercial version of the YARRA 3DX, I was blown away. It really works...basically a surround sound field (any immersive sound field) delivered binaurally to your ears without headphones. He asked if I would like to get involved with the company that was trying to bring the patented technology to market. The company, Comhear Inc, based in San Diego is basically a licensing play.  But Peter (the CSO and my old friend) and the former CEO and I decided it would be cool to develop a consumer sound bar that uses the MyBeam™ technology. So we went to work, developed a brand, a design, and built a Kickstarter campaign to raise the money to produce them, It has been tremendously successful. We've raised over $1,000,000 and are on track to begin delivering units in June. 

I demoed the YARRA 3DX at the LA Audio Show using my Smyth A8 as the binauralizer. The sound bar took the analog binaural output from the Symth box and delivered left and right discrete audio signals (minimal crosstalk) to listeners. What's cool about the Smyth box is the ability to "solo" the individual virtual speakers. When asked where sound is coming from, listeners would point over their shoulder — and this was using my PRIR. The YARRA 3DX can internally decode Dolby Digital and APT X HD signals and output a properly binauralized surround sound field. There are digital inputs (HDMI, TOSlink, and USB) and analog I/O — stereo input and headphones out. The binauralizer can be active or turned off, which allows stereo programming to pass through unprocessed.

The Indiegogo campaign is coming to a close very soon. The project manager and management believe interest is waning. If anyone is interested in getting one, now is the time to go to Indiegogo and search for YARRA 3DX. I'll be glad to answer any questions about the technology, application, or system. As a big fan of surround music, this is an inexpensive solution that works very well. I have one sitting in front of me as I listen and work.


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## AppleheadMay

I bought two fo them to connect to the A16, one for under my monitor and one for under my big screen also attached to the computer.
I'll connect both to the same sub, a B&W DB4S, I'm not using the subs that come with the Yarra.


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## 462429

Dr. AIX said:


> ...
> I demoed the YARRA 3DX at the LA Audio Show using my Smyth A8 as the binauralizer. The sound bar took the analog binaural output from the Symth box and delivered left and right discrete audio signals (minimal crosstalk) to listeners. What's cool about the Smyth box is the ability to "solo" the individual virtual speakers. When asked where sound is coming from, listeners would point over their shoulder — and this was using my PRIR. The YARRA 3DX can internally decode Dolby Digital and APT X HD signals and output a properly binauralized surround sound field. There are digital inputs (HDMI, TOSlink, and USB) and analog I/O — stereo input and headphones out. The binauralizer can be active or turned off, which allows stereo programming to pass through unprocessed.
> ...


Hello, Dr.AIX, glad to meet you on this thread. However, I'm confused with your description of how you demoed the YARRA 3DX at the LA Audio Show, using your Smyth A8 as the binauralizer. So far I learned Yarra had a stereo mode dedicated to cover a whole room, with a group of listeners, by means of  'widely dispersed stereo field'. And now it seems you managed to 'deliver left and right discrete audio signals with minimal crosstalk to listeners' in that mode. How is that possible? Widely dispersed stereo field and minimal crosstalk at the same time!
I would also ask - what kind of signal is APT X HD?
And finally, what do you mean by stereo programming?


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## Dr. AIX

I took the left and right outputs from the Smyth A8 and went into the stereo analog inputs of the YARRA 3DX. With Near Field processing the crosstalk processing is activated and the incoming binaural signals reach your ears. Presto, immersive surround. APT X HD is a very popular audio encoding technology for gaming and computer audio. Any stereo content is stereo programming.


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## Erik Garci

mlkri said:


> How is that possible? Widely dispersed stereo field and minimal crosstalk at the same time!


This FAQ might be helpful.

What happens if I have more than 3 people listening to the immersive surround projections? What do the others hear?
The 3 primary listeners will hear immersive surround and any other will hear enhanced stereo.


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## Erik Garci

Dr. AIX said:


> The binauralizer can be active or turned off, which allows stereo programming to pass through unprocessed.


Does the Yarra 3DX let the user choose to enable/disable the binauralizer for 2-channel input?

If the 2-channel input was already binauralized (by a Realiser for example), the user would choose to disable the soundbar's binauralizer, to avoid double-binauralizing. Otherwise, if it was not already binauralized, and the user wants it to sound like a traditional widely-spaced stereo speaker system, the user would choose to enable the soundbar's binauralizer.


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## 462429

Dr. AIX said:


> I took the left and right outputs from the Smyth A8 and went into the stereo analog inputs of the YARRA 3DX. With Near Field processing the crosstalk processing is activated and the incoming binaural signals reach your ears. Presto, immersive surround. APT X HD is a very popular audio encoding technology for gaming and computer audio. Any stereo content is stereo programming.


Thank you very much, Dr. AIX, for your quick and clear answers. So, the Far Field and Near Field processing modes decide how stereo content will be projected - widely dispersed in the first case and narrowly shaped and directed precisely towards the ears in the second. Now this is clear to me. I never heard of Field processing modes for stereo content before. It was always - no processing for stereo at all. Thanks again ...


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## sander99

I think Dr. AIX was just describing how he did the demo, I don't think he means that there is no beaming in the far field mode.
@Dr. AIX: I really hope we could get a precise and complete description of all the different modes. It's something I am missing on the Yarra and kickstarter Yarra pages, that seem to be written from a popular marketing perspective (which I can understand is maybe commercially more effective, but I would have liked to see at least a small section where the most important facts are grouped together in a clear and logical fashion).
You can see here how people can get confused about many things. For example confusing far field and near field with beaming or not beaming. (I assume beaming is possible both in near field and far field?). Or confusing beaming or not beaming with binauralizing or not binauralizing. (Binauralizing is of course only possible in combination with beaming, but beaming can be done without binauralizing). Or confusing binauralizing or not binauralizing with having a 'widely dispersed stereo field' or not. (I assume the 'wide dispersion mode' is just a completely seperate mode in which there is no beaming?). Etc.


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## Erik Garci (Apr 25, 2018)

mlkri said:


> So, the Far Field and Near Field processing modes decide how stereo content will be projected - widely dispersed in the first case and narrowly shaped and directed precisely towards the ears in the second.


My understanding is that the beams are directed precisely towards the ears in either case, regardless of how many channels. If you are listening 3 to 6 feet away, you would choose the near-field mode, and the beams will be directed precisely towards your ears (but less precisely to anyone behind you). If you are listening 10 to 15 feet away, you would choose the far-field mode, and the beams will be directed precisely towards your ears (but less precisely to anyone in front of you).


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## Erik Garci

sander99 said:


> Or confusing beaming or not beaming with binauralizing or not binauralizing. (Binauralizing is of course only possible in combination with beaming, but beaming can be done without binauralizing).


The Yarra 3DX has a headphone output, so technically it might be possible to have binauralizing without beaming. That is, the soundbar would binauralize the input and send it to the headphones, but the soundbar's drivers would be muted and not beaming at all.


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## sander99

Erik Garci said:


> The Yarra 3DX has a headphone output, so technically it might be possible to have binauralizing without beaming. That is, the soundbar would binauralize the input and send it to the headphones, but the soundbar's drivers would be muted and not beaming at all.


Of course, that's right.


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## sahmen (Apr 29, 2018)

Dr. AIX said:


> I demoed the YARRA 3DX at the LA Audio Show using my Smyth A8 as the binauralizer. The sound bar took the analog binaural output from the Symth box and delivered left and right discrete audio signals (minimal crosstalk) to listeners. What's cool about the Smyth box is the ability to "solo" the individual virtual speakers. When asked where sound is coming from, listeners would point over their shoulder — and this was using my PRIR. The YARRA 3DX can internally decode Dolby Digital and APT X HD signals and output a properly binauralized surround sound field. There are digital inputs (HDMI, TOSlink, and USB) and analog I/O — stereo input and headphones out. The binauralizer can be active or turned off, which allows stereo programming to pass through unprocessed.
> .





Dr. AIX said:


> I took the left and right outputs from the Smyth A8 and went into the stereo analog inputs of the YARRA 3DX. With Near Field processing the crosstalk processing is activated and the incoming binaural signals reach your ears. Presto, immersive surround. APT X HD is a very popular audio encoding technology for gaming and computer audio. Any stereo content is stereo programming.



Dear @Dr. AIX :

To what extent can one safely assume that this experience is repeatable with the A16 too (i.e. taking the analog binaural output from the A16, including object-based Atmos/DTS-X signals, and delivering them as left and right discrete audio signals to listeners, making them appear as if they are coming from solo individual virtual speakers)? Has anyone ever had the opportunity to attempt this experiment with the Yarra and A16?  If one can reasonably expect convincingly similar results from a Yarra/A16 combo, I wouldn't mind springing for a 2nd Yarra before the campaign is over.  It would be wonderful to have one Yarra permanently paired with the A16 at one listening station, to enable alternating headphone and non-headphone listening sessions on demand.   In my case the 2nd Yarra would be deployed in a second system where it would be assigned only Yarra-exclusive duties.  At this point, I am just weighing options, but it would be nice to know what I can expect.  Thanks.

My other question is whether there are any conditions under which one might get an AIX-Studio customized PRIR done for the A16 without having to travel to the studio...Or does that sound completely undoable?


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## 462429

sander99 said:


> I think Dr. AIX was just describing how he did the demo, I don't think he means that there is no beaming in the far field mode.
> @Dr. AIX: I really hope we could get a precise and complete description of all the different modes. It's something I am missing on the Yarra and kickstarter Yarra pages, that seem to be written from a popular marketing perspective (which I can understand is maybe commercially more effective, but I would have liked to see at least a small section where the most important facts are grouped together in a clear and logical fashion).
> You can see here how people can get confused about many things. For example confusing far field and near field with beaming or not beaming. (I assume beaming is possible both in near field and far field?). Or confusing beaming or not beaming with binauralizing or not binauralizing. (Binauralizing is of course only possible in combination with beaming, but beaming can be done without binauralizing). Or confusing binauralizing or not binauralizing with having a 'widely dispersed stereo field' or not. (I assume the 'wide dispersion mode' is just a completely seperate mode in which there is no beaming?). Etc.


There is one more confusing thing:
Why would Dr. AIX demonstrate Yarra by means of Realiser A8's binauralised output, where his own PRIR and HPEQ certainly decrease quality for the other listeners, instead of taking Realiser A8's PCM output and apply Yarra's original (reportedly spectacular) binauralising and beamforming capabilities?!?
@sander99, it seems Dr. AIX and the whole Yarra team don't care much about confusion on the side of their potential customers. Maybe they already have big enough number of (non-confused) gamers on their customers list?


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## Dr. AIX

mlkri said:


> There is one more confusing thing:
> Why would Dr. AIX demonstrate Yarra by means of Realiser A8's binauralised output, where his own PRIR and HPEQ certainly decrease quality for the other listeners, instead of taking Realiser A8's PCM output and apply Yarra's original (reportedly spectacular) binauralising and beamforming capabilities?!?
> @sander99, it seems Dr. AIX and the whole Yarra team don't care much about confusion on the side of their potential customers. Maybe they already have big enough number of (non-confused) gamers on their customers list?


I'm sorry for being absent for the last few days...I've been in the studio working with Michael Jackson's niece Yashi on a VR spoken word/music EPK. We're using the new 8-Ball quad binaural microphone from Hear360...very cool. As soon as I get some rough mixes, I'll pass them along.

As for the recent questions, the reason that I inserted my Smyth A8 in the signal flow from my Blu-ray player HDMI output to the YARRA 3DX was to be able to demonstrate the solo function. I've found soloing the individual channels of a 5.1 surround mix very convincing. I start with the left front, then move to the center front, followed by the right front. Everyone hears the sound in front of them. But when I solo the right surround channel and the sound appears to come from over the listener's right shoulder, the demonstration is taken to a whole new level. The number of times the person turns to look to the spot where the sound appears to come from or smiles broadly is quite high.

The use of my own PRIR and HPEQ has not been a problem. I've demoed both ways and like building up to having all channels turned on.

I've tried to post updates, give in person demos, and answer every and all questions. If there's still confusion, I'll try to clear it up. However, on May 1, 2018 the Indiegogo InDemand campaign will end and preorders will no longer be available at the steep discount. In fact, company management has decided that to end my consultant agreement at the same time. I certainly would have preferred to continue to interact with the backer community until the units are delivered but my time with the company will be over after Monday. If anyone on this forum would like to secure a discounted YARRA 3DX, now is the time to do it. 

I believe in the technology, the person behind the device has been a close friend for a very long time (over 35 years), and the value of the YARRA 3DX sound bar is very high - especially at the discounted price. When used in conjunction with the new Smyth Realiser, I think the end result will be a rare combination of immersive audio without headphones.


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## sander99

@Dr. AIX:
Could you just quickly confirm or negate the follwing assumptions:
I assume beaming without internal binauralisation by the Yarra is possible both in near field and far field?
I assume the 'wide dispersion mode'/'widely dispersed stereo mode' is just a completely seperate mode in which there is no beaming? (Usefull if there are more than 3 users.)
If there are more than 3 users, can there be beams for 3 users _and_ 'widely dispersed stereo' for the others, or only 'widely dispersed stereo' for all users?


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## Dr. AIX

sander99 said:


> @Dr. AIX:
> Could you just quickly confirm or negate the follwing assumptions:
> I assume beaming without internal binauralisation by the Yarra is possible both in near field and far field?
> I assume the 'wide dispersion mode'/'widely dispersed stereo mode' is just a completely seperate mode in which there is no beaming? (Usefull if there are more than 3 users.)
> If there are more than 3 users, can there be beams for 3 users _and_ 'widely dispersed stereo' for the others, or only 'widely dispersed stereo' for all users?


The near field and far field modes are just two of seven different modes of operation. As I did at the show, you can send already binauralized two-channel information into and beam to near or far fields. The wide dispersion mode for stereo models a large sound field...regular stereo music sound quite a bit larger than it would from the array. I play stereo programming with Near Field Mode all the time. If more than 3 locations are being beamed anyone outside of those locations gets regular stereo. I hope this helps.


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## sander99

Dr. AIX said:


> The near field and far field modes are just two of seven different modes of operation. As I did at the show, you can send already binauralized two-channel information into and beam to near or far fields. The wide dispersion mode for stereo models a large sound field...regular stereo music sound quite a bit larger than it would from the array. I play stereo programming with Near Field Mode all the time. If more than 3 locations are being beamed anyone outside of those locations gets regular stereo. I hope this helps.


Yes, thank you.


----------



## 462429 (Apr 29, 2018)

Dr. AIX said:


> ...
> As for the recent questions, the reason that I inserted my Smyth A8 in the signal flow from my Blu-ray player HDMI output to the YARRA 3DX was to be able to demonstrate the solo function. I've found soloing the individual channels of a 5.1 surround mix very convincing. I start with the left front, then move to the center front, followed by the right front. Everyone hears the sound in front of them. But when I solo the right surround channel and the sound appears to come from over the listener's right shoulder, the demonstration is taken to a whole new level. The number of times the person turns to look to the spot where the sound appears to come from or smiles broadly is quite high.
> 
> The use of my own PRIR and HPEQ has not been a problem. I've demoed both ways and like building up to having all channels turned on.
> ...





Dr. AIX said:


> The near field and far field modes are just two of seven different modes of operation. As I did at the show, you can send already binauralized two-channel information into and beam to near or far fields. The wide dispersion mode for stereo models a large sound field...regular stereo music sound quite a bit larger than it would from the array. I play stereo programming with Near Field Mode all the time. If more than 3 locations are being beamed anyone outside of those locations gets regular stereo. I hope this helps.


Thank you very much, Dr. AIX, for your additional explanations and informations. Can I please have two more answers.
It seems you always use Yarra in Near Field Mode. Is it because of the (possible) fact that in the Far Field Mode beaming would not be precise enough? Here I have especially Realiser's output in mind. This is very important to me because I don't have Near Field position available, but a place 4 meters away from my TV (and possible sound projector).
Can you also please list for me these seven different modes of operation and tell - are they completely independent or they (can) come in combinations? Or was it maybe already described somewhere? Maybe you even already have user manual in some form? Thank you in advance.


----------



## Dr. AIX

The seven modes are independent and cannot be used in conjunction with each other. There is not manual yet, I asked last week.

Here's the seven modes currently working in the YARRA 3DX sound bar:

Mode 0                 Directed Audio no ambient control, no Sub
Directional Audio
Mode 1                 Directed Audio ambient control, no Sub
Directional Audio
Mode 2                 Directed Audio with masking side beams, no sub
Masking Audio
Mode 3                 3D Music NF no ambient control, with sub
3D Audio (Near)
Mode 4                 3D Music NF with ambient control, with sub
3D Audio (Near)
Mode 5                 3D Music NF with ambient control, no sub
3D Audio (Near)
Mode 6                 Stereo Music FF with ambient control, with sub
3D Audio (Far)
Mode 7                 Stereo Music FF no ambient control, with sub
3D Audio (Far)

BTW: For this group, I was allowed to set up a SECRET PERK on the Indiegogo InDemand campaign for people that missed the original 50% off deal at the start of the Kickstarter campaign back in September. If you use this link, you can still get that deal through Monday. 
Click here (please do not copy the link...but I thought this group might be interested).


----------



## sander99

Dr. AIX said:


> The seven modes are independent and cannot be used in conjunction with each other. There is not manual yet, I asked last week.
> 
> Here's the seven modes currently working in the YARRA 3DX sound bar:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link with the special offer.
However, I am sorry but now I am totally confused, this doesn't match at all with the picture I had in my head. Now it seems that indeed the available possibilities for NF and FF are totally different and non-overlapping (All '3D Music' for NF, and all 'Stereo Music' for FF).
And what is the exact meaning of:
'Directed Audio'
'Masking Audio'
'masking side beams'
'3D Audio'
'3D Music'
'Stereo Music'
'ambient control'
?
I think maybe this question should be passed on to the developers of the Yarra. I'd like to see clear answers in terms of 'beaming or no beaming', 'internal binauralisation or no internal binauralisation', 'any sound outside the beams or not', 'stereo- or multichannel input signal' for every mode. The names of the modes maybe are chosen to describe what the result sounds like, but I want to know what happens in each case!
By the way: could it be that you have a prototype that maybe doesn't have the exact same modes, and/or different names for the modes compared to the final product?


----------



## 462429

Yes, thank you very much for the special discount, but the list of modes is additionally confusing to me too. Far field listening of the externally binauralised signal (by the Realiser) I can't recognize in any mode and that is the most important (if not the only one) aspect of the Yarra to me. 
Ugh, so much unknown and only one day left!


----------



## Dr. AIX

The difference between near field and far field is the focus point of the left and right beams. Near field works at about 3-6 feet and far field from 12-15 feet. The near field is more impressive but the effect is still present from across the room. It will work quite well with the binauralized output of the Smyth in far field for a typical home theater.


----------



## sander99 (Apr 29, 2018)

Dr. AIX said:


> The difference between near field and far field is the focus point of the left and right beams. Near field works at about 3-6 feet and far field from 12-15 feet. The near field is more impressive but the effect is still present from across the room. It will work quite well with the binauralized output of the Smyth in far field for a typical home theater.


Ok, I guess we will have to do with this with respect to the far field. I could ask for a subjective opinion "how many procent of the effect" with far field compared to near field, comparing both cases with the Realiser doing the binauralisation, but that would be a bit meaningless I guess.
@mlkri: -I guess far field with Realiser A16 and your own PRIR will always be better than far field without Realiser.
-Maybe you can put the Yarra closer to you than the TV, on top of a small salon table for example. Especially when using it with the A16 the placement height should not be very critical (within reasonable bounderies). You should do a HPEQ of the Yarra in the same position - and sitting in your normal listening position - to compensate for the natural hrtf filtering for sound originating from that position. The distance and height of the simulated speakers should be according to your PRIR.
[Edit: but can it compete with A16 with your own PRIR and good headphones? As I once said before: I expect the spatial aspects to be convincing using the Yarra with a Realiser (and that is worth a lot already!), but I don't expect the simulation to be even nearly indistinguishable from the real speakers like it is with good headphones.]
@Dr. AIX: did you do a HPEQ of the Yarra for your own use?


----------



## 462429 (Apr 29, 2018)

Dr. AIX said:


> The difference between near field and far field is the focus point of the left and right beams. Near field works at about 3-6 feet and far field from 12-15 feet. The near field is more impressive but the effect is still present from across the room. It will work quite well with the binauralized output of the Smyth in far field for a typical home theater.


Does it mean you would prefer near field when the distance is 9 feet?


sander99 said:


> ...
> -Maybe you can put the Yarra closer to you than the TV, on top of a small salon table for example. Especially when using it with the A16 the placement height should not be very critical (within reasonable bounderies). You should do a HPEQ of the Yarra in the same position - and sitting in your normal listening position - to compensate for the natural hrtf filtering for sound originating from that position. The distance and height of the simulated speakers should be according to your PRIR.
> ...


Thank you for the fine idea. But, I wouldn't like my analog cable to be more than 3-4 feet long. So, I could move Yarra about 3 feet closer and that would be about 9 feet. And that distance would probably be better handled with near field.
(edit: Dr. AIX says near field effect is still present from across the room.)


----------



## sander99 (Apr 29, 2018)

mlkri said:


> Dr. AIX says near field effect is still present from across the room.


I am not sure that is what he meant, but could be.


mlkri said:


> I wouldn't like my analog cable to be more than 3-4 feet long.


I think you can use optical cable as well.The A8 doesn't have an optical out maybe that's why Dr. AIX had to use the analog connections, the A16 does have optical out for the headphones signal.
Let's ask: @Dr. AIX: you used the analog stereo inputs, but can the optical input be used as well to enter an already binauralised signal?
Edit: oops, the A8 does have an optical out. I looked at the picture of the back in the user manual but first I didn't see it because it is black in a black background! Still my question stands: can the optical input of the Yarra be used for our purpose?


----------



## Erik Garci

mlkri said:


> Does it mean you would prefer near field when the distance is 9 feet?


The following comment seems to indicate that you can modify either mode to work better for 9 feet.

*Comhear Inc. Creator on October 23*
@Mikkel Chr Mikkelsen and Jason Lee, The near and far field modes are flexible. There are no hard start and stop distances...I listed the ideal locations previously. But my room is about the same as your at 8 feet. I get perfectly good surround imaging at that distance. The preset near and far modes can be modified using the app to optimize the 3D effect.


----------



## 462429 (Apr 30, 2018)

Erik Garci said:


> The following comment seems to indicate that you can modify either mode to work better for 9 feet.
> 
> *Comhear Inc. Creator on October 23*
> @Mikkel Chr Mikkelsen and Jason Lee, The near and far field modes are flexible. There are no hard start and stop distances...I listed the ideal locations previously. But my room is about the same as your at 8 feet. I get perfectly good surround imaging at that distance. The preset near and far modes can be modified using the app to optimize the 3D effect.


Thank you very much, @Erik Garci, for this information. However I would understand this modifying possibility in a way that you can shift the focus within the 3-6 and 12-15 sections and not in a way that you can extend sections without reducing quality. How do you understand it?


----------



## 462429 (Apr 30, 2018)

sander99 said:


> I am not sure that is what he meant, but could be.
> 
> I think you can use optical cable as well.The A8 doesn't have an optical out maybe that's why Dr. AIX had to use the analog connections, the A16 does have optical out for the headphones signal.
> Let's ask: @Dr. AIX: you used the analog stereo inputs, but can the optical input be used as well to enter an already binauralised signal?
> Edit: oops, the A8 does have an optical out. I looked at the picture of the back in the user manual but first I didn't see it because it is black in a black background! Still my question stands: can the optical input of the Yarra be used for our purpose?


I found the answer to that question on the Yarra's Comments page (September 28) -
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-audio-system-in-the/comments?cursor=18259434
- given by the @Creator and it says -
"...The YARRA 3DX contains multiple DACs. The HDMI or USB MCH signals are routed to them through the binauralizing (HRTF) DSP processing..."
So, that would be binauralisation of the already binauralised ...
(edit: Or maybe 2ch input bypasses binauralizing (HRTF) DSP processing?)


----------



## 462429

I also found -


> "...The APP (which is still in flux) will allow you to set near vs far field modes, position the listening locations for optimal effect, save presets, adjust EQ, solo the channels, and select HRTF configurations from a variety of presets."


How will this 'selecting HRTF configurations from a variety of presets' go together with the PRIR from the Realiser?


----------



## sander99 (Apr 30, 2018)

mlkri said:


> How will this 'selecting HRTF configurations from a variety of presets' go together with the PRIR from the Realiser?


I hope that you can always select "no hrtf"...
By the way: 33 out of 100 claimed now. (15 sold since yesterday afternoon).


mlkri said:


> "...The YARRA 3DX contains multiple DACs. The HDMI or USB MCH signals are routed to them through the binauralizing (HRTF) DSP processing..."


This is a simplification anyway so not wise to draw firm conclusions from that. (There are 12 DAC channels and 12 digital amps, one for each driver, and there is a next stage - after binauralisation if applicable - in DSP processing that is responsible for the beaming.)


----------



## Dr. AIX

I'm running around most of the day today. But a couple of quick comments/answers. The near field setting is when the unit is placed closer to you...on top of your desk for example and far field is for home theater positioning. Near field would not be appropriate for 12-15 feet away seating.


----------



## Dr. AIX

The binauralization can be turned on or off...it is not automatic. Those users that simply want to use the bar to create a stereo sound field would turn it off.


----------



## sahmen

For the record, I did order a 2nd unit from the link posted by @Dr. AIX . Thanks.  The Yarra better deliver on all its promises


----------



## Erik Garci

mlkri said:


> Thank you very much, @Erik Garci, for this information. However I would understand this modifying possibility in a way that you can shift the focus within the 3-6 and 12-15 sections and not in a way that you can extend sections without reducing quality. How do you understand it?


My understanding is that you can shift the focus point to any distance within 3 to 15 feet. For example, if you are sitting 9 feet away, you would modify the focus point of the near field mode to be 9 feet.

Maybe @Dr. AIX can clarify this today, his last day with the company.


----------



## 462429

Dr. AIX said:


> The binauralization can be turned on or off...it is not automatic. Those users that simply want to use the bar to create a stereo sound field would turn it off.


Does it mean you can use optical connection for the Realiser's output and simply turn Yarra's binauralization off? Why did you prefer analog connection?


----------



## 462429

Dr. AIX said:


> The binauralization can be turned on or off...it is not automatic. Those users that simply want to use the bar to create a stereo sound field would turn it off.


Can you in the same way turn off 'selecting HRTF configurations from a variety of presets' (in case of Realiser's output)?


----------



## 462429

sahmen said:


> For the record, I did order a 2nd unit from the link posted by @Dr. AIX . Thanks.  The Yarra better deliver on all its promises


Good for you, man! I got additional concern today: 23% VAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sander99

Dr. AIX said:


> The binauralization can be turned on or off





mlkri said:


> Can you in the same way turn off 'selecting HRTF configurations from a variety of presets' (in case of Realiser's output)?


HRTF filtering is part of binauralization, so if binauralization is turned off HRTF configurations don't matter.


----------



## 462429

I payed few minutes ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Dr. AIX

I just learned from our Indiegogo account person that the campaign will end at midnight on Friday 5/4. They did a promotion for us on their site and wanted to give people a chance to get the device. There are about 40 units left at the 50% discount link. Thanks for the support!


----------



## 462429

Dr, AIX, thank you once more for your additional discount and your posts. The following quotes from your posts helped me to make my decision:


Dr. AIX said:


> ...
> When used in conjunction with the new Smyth Realiser, I think the end result will be a rare combination of immersive audio without headphones.
> ...
> As I did at the show, you can send already binauralized two-channel information into and beam to near or far fields.
> ...


----------



## 462429

I realised that I will have 2 subwoofers playing along with my Yarra sound projector in my Oppo-Realiser-Yarra chain.
The first is the pre-Yarra and pre-Realiser one, bigger and deeper (up to 60Hz), connected to my Oppo player, usually playing along with my amp/speakers, but with them turned off in this case.
The second one is the Yarra's own subwoofer, smaller and less deep (up to 150Hz).
So, 2 simultaneous subwoofers, covering different ranges and complementing one another! Isn't that combination very interesting and promising?


----------



## Erik Garci (May 16, 2018)

mlkri said:


> I realised that I will have 2 subwoofers playing along with my Yarra sound projector in my Oppo-Realiser-Yarra chain.


One issue to consider is that the audio will be slightly delayed by going through the Realiser and/or Yarra. So to keep the first subwoofer in sync, you might want to add a similar delay to it, or move it farther away, or feed the Realiser's tactile output to it, or feed the Yarra's subwoofer output to both subwoofers.


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## 462429 (May 17, 2018)

Erik Garci said:


> One issue to consider is that the audio will be slightly delayed by going through the Realiser and/or Yarra. So to keep the first subwoofer in sync, you might want to add a similar delay to it, or move it farther away, or feed the Realiser's tactile output to it, or feed the Yarra's subwoofer output to both subwoofers.


You are right, thank you. But I would like to keep that subwoofer in it's original role - connected to the Oppo. You know, I use my amp/loudspeakers quite often. But, you used the word 'or' and not 'for example'. Does it mean that by 'add a similar delay to it' you mean there are some other methods, on the level of the Oppo itself (edit: except longer cable)?


----------



## Erik Garci

mlkri said:


> Does it mean that by 'add a similar delay to it' you mean there are some other methods, on the level of the Oppo itself (edit: except longer cable)?


If the Oppo provides a way to set the speaker distances, you would set a shorter distance for the subwoofer (and/or set longer distances for the other speakers), thus the Oppo would increase the signal delay for the subwoofer. For example, if the subwoofer is set to 6 feet, and the other speakers are set to 15 feet, giving a difference of 9 feet or 108 inches, the Oppo would delay the subwoofer signal by 8 ms (108/13.5) relative to the other speaker signals, assuming that the Oppo uses 13.5 inches/ms as the speed of sound. This delayed subwoofer signal should be fed to the 1st subwoofer only (not to the Realiser, Yarra or 2nd subwoofer).


----------



## 462429

Erik Garci said:


> If the Oppo provides a way to set the speaker distances, you would set a shorter distance for the subwoofer (and/or set longer distances for the other speakers), thus the Oppo would increase the signal delay for the subwoofer. For example, if the subwoofer is set to 6 feet, and the other speakers are set to 15 feet, giving a difference of 9 feet or 108 inches, the Oppo would delay the subwoofer signal by 8 ms (108/13.5) relative to the other speaker signals, assuming that the Oppo uses 13.5 inches/ms as the speed of sound. This delayed subwoofer signal should be fed to the 1st subwoofer only (not to the Realiser, Yarra or 2nd subwoofer).


Thank you very much for the very useful instruction! Yes, Oppo provides a way to set the speaker distance. It applies to analog outputs only, so I can't mix it up with the output for the Realiser (HDMI). I will experiment with the different distances when the time comes.


----------



## 462429

New update on Kickstarter - a new delay implicitly announced - 'this summer'!
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/posts/2170531


----------



## sander99

mlkri said:


> Yarra 3DX is active too. They sent a nice letter and sticker to their crowdfunding supporters.





CanMad said:


> Haven't got a letter from them yet
> 
> Did in anyone else in Australia order one and get a letter yet?  Sorry for continuing the slight derail.


If I where you I'd wait a few days and if you still don't have the letter try to contact Comhear. If you don't have an e-mail address you can always use the contact form:
http://www.yarra3dx.com/contact/
Or maybe you are lucky and they read this thread and react.


----------



## L8MDL

The sticker/letter is to verify addresses for delivery. The latest direct contact for email communication is:
duke.jarboe@comhear.com


----------



## CanMad

Thanks sander99 and L8MDL, luckily my letter and sticker arrived yesterday (Thursday).  So they have my address correct.  Looking forward to September


----------



## ajax1

There is an unboxing video of the YARRA 3DX by Mark Waldrep (Dr. AIX) on youtube.


----------



## ajax1 (Aug 17, 2018)

This is the update on the YARRA 3DX on the Kickstarter website issued today.

"Hello Backers! We’re excited to share that the final version pre-production YARRA 3DX units are in! Our team has been hard at work fine tuning the firmware on these units to ensure the promised sound experience. Next Tuesday, August 21st from 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. we are inviting any and all backers to a demonstration at our San Diego office. Backers will be able to get a first-look at the product and hear the final version. To attend, please RSVP at duke.jarboe@comhear.com. We look forward to seeing you!"


----------



## L8MDL

"pre-production YARRA 3DX units" - "fine tuning the firmware" meaning not ready yet. Add another 8-12 weeks to ship, clear customs, get to distribution center, etc. They may also need to be certified by Dolby and other licensees. I don't see them shipping until 1st quarter 2019. I would love to be wrong!


----------



## 462429 (Aug 18, 2018)

This presentation will certainly generate more precise picture of the situation.


----------



## ajax1

So did anyone reading this forum attend the YARRA 3DX presentation at Comhear's San Diego office today?
How was it?


----------



## Erik Garci

Dr AIX said:


> Re YARRA 3DX: I drove to San Diego yesterday to participate in the YARRA 3DX open house/demo session. About 20 of our backers took the time to come and experience the final manufactured versions of this amazing 3D sound bar. I was very please that everyone was very impressed with the sound and the device's ability to recreate a surround sound field around the listener's head. Progress has been slower than anyone wanted but like the Smyth box, the final result will be worth the wait.


----------



## sander99 (Aug 23, 2018)

MichaelJames99 said:


> 4. What type of cable does the Yarra use for subwoofer?


From the Yarra FAQ:


> The speaker array includes a 3.5 mono jack, which supplies, unbalanced, line level audio for the sub.





MichaelJames99 said:


> Or should I use the subwoofer OUT on the A16?


Assuming you only want to use the sub in combination with the Yarra I think the most practical is to connect it to the Yarra.
Edit: Correction (FAQ outdated as mentioned in a later post): the subwoofer cable is cinch/RCA to cinch/RCA


----------



## sander99

MichaelJames99 said:


> 6. Would the correct wiring go from A16 to Yarra and Yarra to the ARC input on the TV in order to use the Yarra?


Depends on what you want, and can be different for audio versus video. For example if you always want to use the Yarra with the A16, and hence never need the Yarra's build in surround decoders and/or binauralization you could do the following: connect the source with HDMI to the A16, the A16 with HDMI to the TV, and connect the A16's optical output for headphones A or B to the optical input of the Yarra. (So the Yarra only receives the binauralized audio and is not included in the video signal path).
One little complication: You might also want to listen to non-binauralized stereo beamed to your ears, for that case I hope the A16 can be put in a mode where it just passes stereo input through to the headphones output. If that is not the case maybe an additional audio connection is required. Now the answer becomes more complicated. Many of your questions are in fact quite complicated because there are simply many different ways to hook everything up and it is a lot of work to explain them all.


----------



## MichaelJames99

sander99 said:


> From the Yarra FAQ:
> 
> 
> Assuming you only want to use the sub in combination with the Yarra I think the most practical is to connect it to the Yarra.



Instead of a 3.5 mm mono cable, could I also use a 3.5 MM 4 conductor cable?


----------



## sander99

MichaelJames99 said:


> Instead of a 3.5 mm mono cable, could I also use a 3.5 MM 4 conductor cable?


I don't know but I would never do that, why would you?
By the way: I don't know what is on the other side - the subwoofer side - of the cable. I just assumed without thinking it would be a single cinch/RCA plug but actually I don't know.


----------



## L8MDL (Aug 22, 2018)

The FAQ is outdated. The output for the sub from the main unit has been changed to an RCA female which is more common for a subwoofer. I believe the cord will be male RCA at both ends but cannot be sure at this time. It looks to be on Dr. Waldrep's video. There is also a photo of the subwoofer on the #24 update at the Kickstarter page that shows the input. Looks RCA to me.


----------



## manzano804

Does someone know if  is posible to use a different subwoffer ( that goes below 40 Hz ) ?


----------



## ajax1 (Aug 23, 2018)

This is the is a link to the video produced from the YARRA 3DX presentation at Comhear's San Diego office on 8/22/2018.

Mark Waldrep (Dr. AIX) was in attendance and made some general comments regarding manufacturing difficulties beginning at minute 3:45.


----------



## ajax1 (Aug 23, 2018)

This is the 2 page YARRA 3DX User Manual that was submitted to the FCC.

https://fccid.io/XN6-Y12121/User-Manual/User-Manual-3974234



Other information submitted to the FCC for the YARRA 3DX can be seen below.

https://fccid.io/XN6-Y12121


----------



## 462429 (Aug 24, 2018)

ajax1 said:


> This is the 2 page YARRA 3DX User Manual that was submitted to the FCC.
> https://fccid.io/XN6-Y12121/User-Manual/User-Manual-3974234
> 
> Other information submitted to the FCC for the YARRA 3DX can be seen below.
> https://fccid.io/XN6-Y12121


This YARRA 3DX User Manual reveals to me two very unpleasant surprises:

1) It seems user must choose one of the 3 EQ modes -
- Movies - Best for enjoying movies. Bass frequencies are enhanced.
- Music - Best for enjoying music. EQ tuned to showcase highs & lows.
- Gaming - Best for enjoying games. EQ tuned to help 3D locate sounds.

So, where is the neutral mode? Who has decided that music lovers want permanently active 'Loudness' function? Why would anybody want to have enhanced bass frequencies while watching movies? Why would 3D effect be important in games more than in music or movies?

2) The table shows the best quality of audio to be with an optical connection/cable. So, why optical and not HDMI? How will optical interface transfer a HD 5.1 PCM? Or does it mean Yarra can't accept decoded (to PCM) DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD? Or decoded SACD and DVD-Audio content?


----------



## Erik Garci

mlkri said:


> So, where is the neutral mode? Who has decided that music lovers want permanently active 'Loudness' function? Why would anybody want to have enhanced bass frequencies while watching movies? Why would 3D effect be important in games more than in music or movies?


Good questions. I hope it offers a neutral mode, such as by pressing the same EQ button to toggle it on and off.


mlkri said:


> 2) The table shows the best quality of audio to be with an optical connection/cable. So, why optical and not HDMI? How will optical interface transfer a HD 5.1 PCM? Or does it mean Yarra can't accept decoded (to PCM) DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD? Or decoded SACD and DVD-Audio content?


USB, ARC and Bluetooth were also omitted from that table. Maybe it's just an oversight.


----------



## Erik Garci

The manual states: "Far Field is recommended for listening distances beyond four feet from Yarra 3DX."
Four feet is closer than what was previously mentioned.

Regarding the LEDs, it might be confusing that some indicators look the same, such as Minimum VOL, HDMI Input and 1 Listener. Maybe this will be improved.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mlkri said:


> This YARRA 3DX User Manual reveals to me two very unpleasant surprises:
> 
> 1) It seems user must choose one of the 3 EQ modes -
> - Movies - Best for enjoying movies. Bass frequencies are enhanced.
> ...




Concerning question 1: In the Backer Video above at 7:53 you can see the three modes you mention on top of the equalizer along with a fourth mode to the left of them that says "neutral" or "normal" if I'm not mistaken. It would be silly indeed not to have a neutral mode so I presume the manual isn't complete yet.


----------



## 462429

Erik Garci said:


> Good questions. I hope it offers a neutral mode, such as by pressing the same EQ button to toggle it on and off...





AppleheadMay said:


> Concerning question 1: In the Backer Video above at 7:53 you can see the three modes you mention on top of the equalizer along with a fourth mode to the left of them that says "neutral" or "normal" if I'm not mistaken. It would be silly indeed not to have a neutral mode so I presume the manual isn't complete yet.


Or user can use graphic 'sliders' to manually bring these enhancements to zero?


----------



## 462429 (Sep 6, 2018)

mlkri said:
			
		

> Hi, Duke and Mark, the YARRA 3DX User Manual (published on the web) reveals to me two very very unpleasant surprises:
> 1) It seems user must choose one of the 3 EQ modes -
> - Movies - Best for enjoying movies. Bass frequencies are enhanced.
> - Music - Best for enjoying music. EQ tuned to showcase highs & lows.
> ...





			
				Duke Jarboe said:
			
		

> You can set the EQ to whatever you like. You can use HDMI or HDMI ARC. As for your personal questions on preferences, you're free to choose whatever you like.





			
				mlkri said:
			
		

> Duke,
> I am not satisfied with your answer.
> 1) User manual mentions only 3 EQ settings and I don't like any of them.
> I like neutral (no EQ). There is no such a setting in the user manual!
> ...





			
				Duke Jarboe said:
			
		

> I'm sorry you're not satisfied. I don't understand how to explain the EQ settings to you any further than: You can set them to whatever you like, including neutral. The user manual is an evolving document that will be changed to say HDMI ARC is best. So you're arguing a semantic point there and again, I don't know what to tell you other than: Use HDMI ARC if that is what you think is best for your setup. As far as Far Field, ultimately, it will be a subjective experience that we have found to be best for beyond roughly 4 feet. You can switch it between Near and Far as you so desire, depending on whichever you think sounds best for your setup.





			
				mlkri said:
			
		

> Duke,
> you constantly avoid my central question, which is -
> - CAN YARRA ACCEPT HIGH DEFINITION 5.1 PCM COMING VIA HDMI FROM AN EXTERNAL DECODER, ORIGINATING FROM BLU-RAY, SACD AND DVD-AUDIO DISCS ???
> Your mentioning HDMI ARC (television sound!) as potentially the best audio option suggests the answer to my central question is NO, and that would certainly be something new to us, backers. A deal breaker to me for sure!





			
				Duke Jarboe said:
			
		

> I asked the engineers. This is what they said:
> Officially, we support stereo PCM and Dolby Digital.
> That being said, we have used multichannel 5.1 PCM on an Xbox and it seems to work fine. We don't think we can promise that though. We haven't done extensive testing on high sample rate PCM either, so we're not sure if it will work or not. We can possibly (possibly..no promises...) address this in a firmware update.





			
				Mark Waldrep (Dr.Aix) said:
			
		

> ...
> The box was always going to be capable of binauralizing Dolby Digital and APT HD. I was also told that it would support HD for stereo. I don't think I ever said that it would accept high-resolution PCM encoded surround audio and binauralize it for the beamforming speakers.
> 
> I still recommend the box and believe it is a very innovative sound bar.


----------



## Erik Garci (Sep 18, 2018)

mlkri said:


> Duke Jarboe said:
> 
> 
> 
> > That being said, we have used multichannel 5.1 PCM on an Xbox and it seems to work fine.


That's good news at least.


mlkri said:


> Mark Waldrep (Dr.Aix) said:
> 
> 
> 
> > I was also told that it would support HD for stereo. I don't think I ever said that it would accept high-resolution PCM encoded surround audio and binauralize it for the beamforming speakers.


I think this is correct. Mark said it would accept PCM as HR 2.0 and non-HR 5.1/7.1, but not as HR 5.1/7.1.

In other words...

It can accept:
2.0 PCM at 48 kHz/16-bit
2.0 PCM at 96 kHz/24-bit (high-resolution)
5.1 PCM at 48 kHz/16-bit
7.1 PCM at 48 kHz/16-bit

It cannot accept:
5.1 PCM at 96 kHz/24-bit (high-resolution)
7.1 PCM at 96 kHz/24-bit (high-resolution)


----------



## Erik Garci

Mark Waldrep posted an unofficial update on his site today.
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6279



			
				Mark Waldrep (Dr.Aix) said:
			
		

> Those of you who backed the YARRA 3DX 3D audio sound bar and have been patiently waiting for delivery have only a little while longer to wait. How do I know? There is going to be an AIX Records sampler DVD included with each unit and I was told that I had to have 3000 copies at the Chinese factory by the 20th of this month. The manufacturing has begun and shipment to the US should happen before the end of the month. The local distribution partner will then be shipping the finished goods to anxious backers. Some backers have been patient and others have been posting rants on the KS page. I don’t blame anyone for their concerns. If I was still involved with the company, I would have regularly posted updates, responded to emails, and otherwise maintained the community. That hasn’t happened. I do see all of the emails and the comments but do not respond because it is no longer my responsibility. I apologize for the lack of communication. The company is doing their best…but could obviously do better. I remain confident that everyone will be happy once they get their YARRA 3DX.


----------



## Erik Garci

The app is listed on Google Play.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.comhear.yarra.qa


----------



## W C H

It is starting to look like this project could be in some major trouble  I've been reading their kickstarter comments and people are starting to get worried.  Mark Waldrep has said there are some major issues going on and he is planning on writing a blog post about the company in a few days.  I'm not sure what he knows and what his information is based on so I guess we will have to just wait and see.
However, at the rate people are leaving the company it looks a little worrying.  I'm leaning towards bad news but would love to be mistaken.


----------



## sahmen

I'm also waiting to hear whatever definitive information Waldrep will eventually find out about this alleged crisis.  Strangely, I received the address verification inquiry pasted below from Comhear/Yarra3DX only last month, and that got me all excited about the prospect of getting my two Yarras soon, because I assumed, from previous experience, that these address verifications only go out when the items are truly being readied for shipment... This is why I find some of the speculations about alleged production problems rather confusing.  I assumed production runs had already been done... At any rate, I have sent a related inquiry to the lady who sent me this address verification.  I just hope she is in a .position to respond with information that is more reliable.


----------



## MichaelJames99

which forum or blog is the most active on the Yarra status and / or Waldrep?


----------



## Erik Garci

MichaelJames99 said:


> which forum or blog is the most active on the Yarra status and / or Waldrep?


Comments on Kickstarter and Indiegogo

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...most-advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/comments

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yarra-3dx-worlds-most-advanced-3d-audio-system#/comments


----------



## ajax1 (Nov 5, 2018)

Comhear did not make their most recent delivery promise of late summer to the Kickstarter and Indiegogo backers, has not given any recent information on when delivery might occur and has ignored backers request for information.


Mark Waldrep (Dr. Aix)  has said on his www.realhd-audio.com website:

(regarding the Comhear CEO)  "He has told me that official Comhear updates are unlikely, so don’t look for any information coming from the remaining company personnel."

"Everything is ready for production…the parts, the metal, the boards etc. All that’s needed is for the CEO to hit the “start” button."


A possible scenario consistent with both statements:

Comhear is negotiating to sell the whole company or just the YARRA 3DX product.

If the sale goes through, the purchasing company may wish sell the existing YARRA 3DX product under their own brand and logos.  This includes the units to be delivered to Kickstarter and Indiegogo backers.


----------



## ajax1

One day after I quoted Mark Waldrep saying:

(regarding the Comhear CEO) "He has told me that official Comhear updates are unlikely, so don’t look for any information coming from the remaining company personnel."

the following update has appeared on Indiegogo

YARRA 3DX and Comhear Update
Having demonstrated and tested YARRA 3DX production prototype product with a limited group of crowdfunding backers in late summer, there have been numerous queries and speculations about what is happening with YARRA 3DX product production.  As we have mentioned previously, Comhear has met with several setbacks in the development and production of YARRA 3DX. For the last few months, we have been engaged in various capital raising and other strategic discussions intended to allow us to reach a positive result. The results and timing of these initiatives have affected company operations and delayed YARRA 3DX new product production. Although we hoped to announce the outcome of these initiatives earlier, we continue to work diligently on ways to fuel the growth of our business and bring this new consumer product to market despite the challenges facing an early stage technology company. We apologize for the delay and understand our backers frustration. We will do our best to keep you informed of further developments.


----------



## MichaelJames99

So the latest is they ran out of money and looking for backers?


----------



## ajax1

Mark Waltrep (Dr. Aix) has a new post on his website entitled "A Weekend in London with the YARRA 3DX".   

It provides some information on the status of the stagnated Kickstarter and Indiegogo YARRA 3DX
deliveries.  

Content includes a discussion of his tour of Abbey Road Studios and his demo of the YARRA 3DX to studio personnel.

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6311


----------



## 462429

ajax1 said:


> Mark Waltrep (Dr. Aix) has a new post on his website entitled "A Weekend in London with the YARRA 3DX".
> 
> It provides some information on the status of the stagnated Kickstarter and Indiegogo YARRA 3DX
> deliveries.
> ...


It is nice to see Mark trying to help the backers, but I can not believe how he keeps manipulating with the truth. I have induced him (and Yarra's engineers) to admit that Yarra can accept only stereo, Dolby Digital and one games' format. And now he says he demonstrated Yarra by playing, among others - the tracks from the 'Love' DVD-Audio disc!?! He obviously downconverted that tracks to the Dolby Digital format first, but he seems to think his readers don't care for such 'details'... Very sad and very devastating for his image ...


----------



## Erik Garci

mlkri said:


> He obviously downconverted that tracks to the Dolby Digital format first


Or maybe he used 5.1 PCM.


----------



## 462429

Erik Garci said:


> Or maybe he used 5.1 PCM.


I wish you were right. Unfortunately, neither Mark, nor Duke and Yarra's engineers didn't confirm to me such a possibility when I once asked them about that.


----------



## L8MDL

mlkri said:


> I wish you were right. Unfortunately, neither Mark, nor Duke and Yarra's engineers didn't confirm to me such a possibility when I once asked them about that.



It really doesn't matter since the Yarra appears to be dead. I don't believe we will ever see the product. My apologies for starting this thread for a bunch of rip-off artists. Caveat Emptor!


----------



## 462429

L8MDL said:


> It really doesn't matter since the Yarra appears to be dead. I don't believe we will ever see the product. My apologies for starting this thread for a bunch of rip-off artists. Caveat Emptor!


My point was that even if the Yarra ships and even if it really is brilliant and innovative, the question remains - on which level? On the level of Dolby Digital? Thank you, goodbye!
Will the A16 perfectly copy the speakers? Yes? But, when they play WHAT? Dolby Digital? Thank you, goodbye! But, we usually forget to ask the right questions in the right moment...


----------



## raband

"I believe the answer is a full featured sound bar. I’m dedicated to making one available as soon as possible. I was hoping it would be the YARRA 3DX but perhaps a new venture will have to take the lead."

"my efforts to rescue the YARRA 3DX have proven unsuccessful. I hope we all get out sound bars but it’s difficult to imagine how additional investors will be excited by spending $1M to make the backer community whole."

"I offered a path forward with myself and partners acquiring YARRA 3DX but my offer was ultimately rejected. Is there a chance they will succeed? Yes, but there is no guarantee and the chances are slim IMHO."

"I would put the odds at less than 25% we will get our YARRA 3DX units."

All from Mark.

"I have already taken some initial steps to design and build a larger and better 3D audio sound bar. It will sound better, deliver more volume, embrace newer codecs, include multiple digital and analog inputs, and be modular in design. I don't know yet how it will be funded. If I create a new campaign and raise funds, those funds will be used as described in the campaign."

Would anyone be keen to back him on this one?


----------



## L8MDL

Only if he takes the money I placed on the Yarra as payment.


----------



## 462429 (Dec 9, 2018)

mlkri on http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6311#comment-369477 said:
			
		

> *Mladen Krizanic*
> DECEMBER 8, 2018 AT 2:26 AM
> Hi,
> Can you please describe, how exactly did you bring a DVD-Audio content (‘Love’) into Yarra. Thank you in advance.
> ...





			
				mlkri on http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6311#comment-369477 said:
			
		

> And what audio file format did you input into Yarra after ripping it from the DVD Audio disc 'Love'?


----------



## Dr AIX

I created an AC3 file and imported it into a DVD image file for playback.


----------



## 462429

Dr AIX said:


> I created an AC3 file and imported it into a DVD image file for playback.


Why lossy AC3 and not lossless PCM, your favourite and favourite of your readers and your Yarra backers?


----------



## 462429 (Dec 9, 2018)

Dr AIX said:


> ...I played a number of binaural and surround audio examples – including a variety of Beatles tracks from the “Love” DVD-Audio disc...


And why did you say "I played ... tracks from the “Love” DVD-Audio disc..." and not "I played ... tracks from the “Love” DVD-Audio disc previously downconverted to AC3 lossy format"?


----------



## 462429 (Dec 9, 2018)

@Dr AIX: ... And why didn't you mention your inclination or necessity to using lossy AC3 format with Yarra at the times when you were busy persuading your readers and Forum members to back Yarra? You must have known that your name had become a synonym for the multichannel PCM (even in high definition version!) so that your readers and potential backers could easily get fooled?!? How could you, who were so sensitive and hyper aware of the 'big differences' between two HD MCH formats (DSD and PCM), suddenly assume that mentioning a lossy AC3 level of the Yarra to your readers and potential backers would be an unnecessary hairsplitting? OK, there are colleagues who really don't care about that, who are only interested in TV sound and LPs. There are also those who intend to use Yarra with the Realiser only. But what about the rest? What about your diligent MCH PCM pupils and followers? It was your obligation to warn them!!!


----------



## L8MDL (Dec 9, 2018)

Fortunately, MLKRI, none of what you question will be an issue since the Yarra is dead. Or are we beating dead horses around here?


----------



## Erik Garci (Dec 10, 2018)

raband said:


> Would anyone be keen to back him on this one?





L8MDL said:


> Only if he takes the money I placed on the Yarra as payment.


Maybe he can offer an extra discount specifically to Yarra backers.


----------



## 462429

L8MDL said:


> Fortunately, MLKRI, none of what you question will be an issue since the Yarra is dead. Or are we beating dead horses around here?


Well, Erik Garci already answered you - Yarra is not dead, moreover, it is pregnant and new baby, Yarra II, is expected to come to this world in a couple of ......well ... whatever. And the horse we are beating here - namely human hypocrisy - will unfortunately live forever, together with the horse named human stupidity.


----------



## 462429

Erik Garci said:


> Or maybe he used 5.1 PCM.





			
				Dr AIX to mlkri said:
			
		

> DECEMBER 9, 2018 AT 12:49 PM
> The YARRA 3DX can accept PCM, AC3, or APTX HD via TOSLink, HDMI, or USB. I took the wav files from the rip and created an interleaved AC3 (Dolby Digital) files and added it to the DVD iso image.





			
				mlkri to Dr AIX said:
			
		

> DECEMBER 10, 2018 AT 4:34 AM
> And why to lossy Dolby Digital and not to lossless PCM, your and our favourite format?





			
				Dr AIX to mlkri said:
			
		

> DECEMBER 10, 2018 AT 5:39 AM
> The system does a lot of processing and MCH PCM is not possible.


@Dr AIX: Why didn't you tell this to your readers and followers before their payments? You knew they (we) assumed that functionality.


----------



## Erik Garci (Dec 11, 2018)

Dr AIX to mlkri9 said:
			
		

> DECEMBER 10, 2018 AT 5:39 AM
> The system does a lot of processing and MCH PCM is not possible.


This statement does not makes sense to me. I would expect that 5.1 PCM would not require any more processing than Dolby Digital. After all, when the sound bar internally decodes 5.1 Dolby Digital, the result is a 5.1 PCM signal which is then passed to the next stage of processing. Why would it make a difference whether the 5.1 signal was decoded internally by the sound bar versus pre-decoded externally by a source device?

Furthermore it is inconsistent with this earlier claim.


			
				Duke Jarboe to mlkri9 said:
			
		

> That being said, we have used multichannel 5.1 PCM on an Xbox and it seems to work fine.


----------



## 462429 (Dec 12, 2018)

Erik Garci said:


> This statement does not makes sense to me. I would expect that 5.1 PCM would not require any more processing than Dolby Digital. After all, when the sound bar internally decodes 5.1 Dolby Digital, the result is a 5.1 PCM signal which is then passed to the next stage of processing. Why would it make a difference whether the 5.1 signal was decoded internally by the sound bar versus pre-decoded externally by a source device?
> ...


I don't know either. Maybe PCM originating from DD is smaller in size than the lossless version?


Erik Garci said:


> ...Furthermore it is inconsistent with this earlier claim.


One thing was consistent all the time - carefully avoiding to explicitly say 'No MCH PCM input was planned. Yarra 3DX is a soundbar dedicated to gamers and TV viewers'.
I had to turn myself into a police investigator in order to make that clear.
Edit: I don't mention the use with the Realiser A16 because in the crowd of 2700, that is a real niche. Besides, who knows what surprises the Realiser A16 itself brings to us (you, if I get my refund)?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Since the Yarra is probably dead in the water and I was only going to use it for connecvting it to the Realiser I am looking for an alternative.
Does anyone know of a soundbar that I can place under my monitor and has stereo analog input and a wired subwoofer output?


----------



## Erik Garci

An official update was posted today.

YARRA 3DX Crowdfunding Backer Update


----------



## AppleheadMay

Erik Garci said:


> An official update was posted today.
> 
> YARRA 3DX Crowdfunding Backer Update



Thanks for the update and great news!
I ordered 2 of these buggers trough Indiegogo to use them with the Realiser, one under each widescreen monitor for my Mac and Win systems.

I wonder though why as an Indiegogo backer I don't get this news in my mailbox.
This update is posted on the Indiegogo site as well and I just checked my settings there.
Any ideas?


----------



## AppleheadMay

New update, good news:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/posts/2421874

Does anybody remember how/when we had to/have to choose the color of the Yarra?


----------



## ajax1

A Comhear product (not the YARRA 3DX) is now available for purchase

https://www.compsource.com/pn/MB412100/Comhear-5787/Comhearÿproav-Mybeam-Speaker-Mb412100

http://www.unitedoffice.com/pn/MB412100/COMHEAR_5787/


----------



## ajax1

Comhear has posted an update to their Kickstarter and Indiegogo campaigns

Update announces a Conference Call to take place of Feb. 25.

The updates are the same but Kickstarter allows backer comments to be posted regarding the update.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...advanced-3d-audio-system-in-the/posts/2421874
and
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yarra-3dx-worlds-most-advanced-3d-audio-system#/updates/all


----------



## AppleheadMay

ajax1 said:


> A Comhear product (not the YARRA 3DX) is now available for purchase
> 
> https://www.compsource.com/pn/MB412100/Comhear-5787/Comhearÿproav-Mybeam-Speaker-Mb412100
> 
> http://www.unitedoffice.com/pn/MB412100/COMHEAR_5787/



Basically the Yarra in another package.
I was positive about the update until I saw this. It seems to me like they used our funds for who knows what and are now selling the product without delivering to backers.
The sad thing is I need a pair of these as I built a whole setup here around the Realiser and two beamforming speakers.

Are these Mybeam speakers only available in the US?


----------



## raband

AppleheadMay said:


> Are these Mybeam speakers only available in the US?



The compsource link above shows international shipping


----------



## AppleheadMay

raband said:


> The compsource link above shows international shipping



To Canada only, right?
Or did I miss something?


----------



## raband

Ah, right you are


----------



## AppleheadMay

raband said:


> Ah, right you are



That's what my wife always says eventually.  

Damn. Well, let's wait and see if my two ordered Yarras will be produced. If not I'll have to find a nice fellow American Head-fier who would be willing to forward these to me.


----------



## Erik Garci

ajax1 said:


> A Comhear product (not the YARRA 3DX) is now available for purchase
> 
> https://www.compsource.com/pn/MB412100/Comhear-5787/Comhearÿproav-Mybeam-Speaker-Mb412100
> 
> http://www.unitedoffice.com/pn/MB412100/COMHEAR_5787/


I started seeing the MyBeam listed for sale several months ago.

It has been featured on the Comhear website since 2017.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170606173339/https://www.comhear.com/my-beam-entertainment/


----------



## L8MDL

That system doesn't seem to have HDMI inputs nor the ability to decode 5.1/7.1 sound. Kind of a "mini" Yarra for gaming, seems to me.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I only need rca input to connect to a Realiser.


----------



## L8MDL

YARRA 3DX Product Production Update
Posted by Comhear Inc. (Creator)
As communicated on the YARRA 3DX Crowdfunding Backer Conference call hosted earlier today by Wyatt Briant - President of Zylux, Comhear’s manufacturing partner and myself, the first volume production run of YARRA 3DX to satisfy the Kickstarter/Indiegogo backer pledge delivery obligations will begin in April.

Comhear’s recent progress with the November 29th Board approved company financing (communicated in our December 18th Update) along with an agreement reached between Comhear and Zylux provides for the YARRA 3DX product roll-out and manufacturing process to move forward.

Now that we have a committed April production start date, we’ll keep the backer community informed of additional delivery details as they become available.

Thank you again for your patience.


Gerry Chastelet

Chief Executive Officer,

Comhear Inc


----------



## AppleheadMay

Some things I would like to know:
- when do we get to choose the color?
- can extra units be ordered later on?
- Dolby Atmos and DTS:X decoding?
- 4K and HDR passthrough?


----------



## raband

AppleheadMay said:


> - Dolby Atmos and DTS:X decoding?
> - 4K and HDR passthrough?



No changes from original spec was what I gathered from what I read of the conversation

Original specs below - only Dolby Digital and no Passthrough

*Input/Output Connections*


Line in analog 1/8” (3.5 mm) stereo 
2 - HDMI Digital Inputs (ARC)
1 - USB  B Digital Input (Also Firmware Upgrades) 
Line Out subwoofer 1/8” mono
1 - 3.5 mm Heapdhone output
*Decoding*


Dolby Digital


----------



## L8MDL

I believe the subwoofer out has been changed to a single RCA female mono.


----------



## AppleheadMay

raband said:


> No changes from original spec was what I gathered from what I read of the conversation
> 
> Original specs below - only Dolby Digital and no Passthrough
> 
> ...




What do you mean nopassthrough” Surely the image passes through the HDMI-ARC.


----------



## L8MDL

*YARRA 3DX Going Into Production*

*New update from Comhear on the Kickstarter page (also an email to backers). This may happen yet, and beat the Smyth Realiser! *


----------



## L8MDL (May 18, 2019)

From Comhear:
This week, all YARRA 3DX Kickstarter and Indiegogo backer units were shipped from manufacturer to China distribution center of the global logistics carrier handling the shipment of products to backer designated destinations.

At the distribution center, products will be labelled with confirmed backer final destination “ship to” addresses prior to bulk freight shipment to 113 different countries where upon arrival, once the units clear customs they are immediately transferred to local carriers for final delivery. Actual delivery times will vary by continent; however, it is anticipated that all units will be delivered worldwide by end of June/early July. We’ll keep you posted as further shipment details become available.
----


----------



## L8MDL

From Comhear:

This week, all YARRA 3DX Kickstarter and Indiegogo backer units completed the individual ship-to labeling and destination sorting phase at the distribution/logistics center. This process is followed by the units being palletized and prepared for sea and land transportation. 






From there, the units are either containerized at port of departure for sea shipment and scheduled on an available ocean freight vessel or prepared for land transportation depending on final destination. Our logistics firm has not yet confirmed dates for sea shipments but expect to have freighter booking information next week.

We press every day to assess final delivery times for your YARRA 3DX and while we are not able to tell you exactly when to expect individual delivery, it is anticipated that all units will start to be delivered worldwide by end of June to mid-July depending on local processing/customs clearances.

As soon as we receive individual delivery tracking information, the same will be forwarded to each backer at the email address on file. 

Please be aware that delivery tracking information for units being shipped by ocean freight (i.e. destination USA) will not be available until units are in the hands of the land delivery carrier (i.e. FedEx). Once Comhear receives this tracking information from our logistics firm, the data will be immediately forwarded to your email. 

We’ll keep you posted as further shipment details become available.

Comhear Inc. – Customer Support

Show support and stay involved—let Comhear Inc. know you read this update.


----------



## sahmen

A couple of backers report having received their shipping notifications.  I have received none, although I am a backer of two sets.  I am also wondering why this thread is so quiet, when shipping has supposedly begun.

Are there others who have, or have not, received their shipping notifications? I would like to have some idea as to the order in which they are shipping the units.  I am located in the USA, and backed my first Yarra set on November 13th, 2017, and my 2nd set on April 30th, 2018.

Thanks.


----------



## mikemav

sahmen said:


> A couple of backers report having received their shipping notifications.  I have received none, although I am a backer of two sets.  I am also wondering why this thread is so quiet, when shipping has supposedly begun.
> 
> Are there others who have, or have not, received their shipping notifications? I would like to have some idea as to the order in which they are shipping the units.  I am located in the USA, and backed my first Yarra set on November 13th, 2017, and my 2nd set on April 30th, 2018.
> 
> Thanks.


I received this update from Kickstarter on 6/28 regarding US shipments and other details: 
We are happy to announce that YARRA 3DX shipments have commenced. 

ALL YARRA 3DX units bound for the USA have been scheduled for container delivery and will arrive in Los Angeles on July 22nd via ocean transport. After clearing customs, the container will be transferred to the FedEx shipping terminal in Los Angeles. Individual US tracking notifications will be sent out once FedEx provides local delivery tracking numbers (after July 22nd).

For the rest of world, the shipment process has commenced and tracking numbers are being sent out as each package is pushed to the shipper of record for each country. Many backers have already received shipment notifications. Units will be arriving at some locations as early as July 5th, and we expect that all rest of world deliveries will be completed by July 20th.

Next week Comhear will unveil the YARRA 3DX support site which will provide in depth information about how to setup your YARRA 3DX, operational tips, and support options. Further information regarding the support site will be forthcoming within the week.

We appreciate your support of this first generation Comhear consumer product and your continued patience. 

Comhear Inc. – Customer Support


----------



## sahmen

mikemav said:


> I received this update from Kickstarter on 6/28 regarding US shipments and other details:
> We are happy to announce that YARRA 3DX shipments have commenced.
> 
> ALL YARRA 3DX units bound for the USA have been scheduled for container delivery and will arrive in Los Angeles on July 22nd via ocean transport. After clearing customs, the container will be transferred to the FedEx shipping terminal in Los Angeles. Individual US tracking notifications will be sent out once FedEx provides local delivery tracking numbers (after July 22nd).
> ...



Thanks @mikemav . For some reason, I do not have this update in my mailbox, although I usually receive all the correspondence from Yarra.  I must have deleted mine inadvertently. 

That said,  I think "after July 22" is the essential thing to note here.

Thanks again.


----------



## ajax1

As I understand it, all the YARRA 3DX units arrived at a Chinese shipper in June.  So I believe all orders will be shipped at approximately the same time.  

According to Comhear, the USA destined YARRA 3DX units will arrive by ship into the port of Los Angeles on July 22.  When the units are transferred to Fedex, Comhear said they will send us an email with the tracking number.

USA customers will probably be the last customers to receive their YARRAs as it looks like all or at least most people in other countries - Canada, Mexico, European and Australia will be receiving
their YARRAs through HK Post (air).

I am in California.  I did not get any email from Fedex regarding shipping like some other US customers did, so I logged into my existing but somewhat dormant Fedex account and updated settings to get shipping info sent to me.

2 days later, still having received no info from Fedex, I logged in again and selected TRACKING and then ADVANCED SHIPPING TRACKING.
This resulted in my being able to see that Fedex had received LABEL CREATED info from Comhear on 6/12/2019

So I now have the Fedex tracking number.  

You may be able to see your Fedex tracking number before Comhear sends it to you be creating a Fedex account, waiting a few days and then searching your Fedex account as I described above.


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## sahmen

ajax1 said:


> As I understand it, all the YARRA 3DX units arrived at a Chinese shipper in June.  So I believe all orders will be shipped at approximately the same time.
> 
> According to Comhear, the USA destined YARRA 3DX units will arrive by ship into the port of Los Angeles on July 22.  When the units are transferred to Fedex, Comhear said they will send us an email with the tracking number.
> 
> ...



Swell! I already had a Fedex account, so I took a peek on the "Advanced Tracking" page as recommended and BAM! ;  Now I have Tracking numbers for my two Yarra sets, with shipping status marked as "Pending" for both.

Thanks, man.  This is cool!


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## L8MDL (Jul 2, 2019)

Nothing yet! Kickstart backer #125, USofA. Patiently waiting. I have received all of the updates.


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## SierraMadre (Jul 9, 2019)

Hello, folks.

Still waiting on my Yarra too.
Some suggestions / food for thought re *Dolby Atmos* for when you receive your unit and are testing capabilities for media content other than music, i.e. games, films/TV etc.


Background / Context:

Much was made during the initial stages of the campaign (somewhat misleadingly) about the capabilities of the Yarra to render object based 3D audio formats like Dolby Atmos, Auro 3D and DTS X, only for it later to be revealed that the Yarra would not natively decode either rather it could only convert or ‘interpret’ Atmos and similar such formats provided they had _already_ been pre-binauralised into 2ch stereo form by the source device. People then started talking about using the forthcoming Smyth Realiser A16 to pre-binauralise Atmos for output via the Yarra.


Alternative / Interim substitute:

(- For those waiting for the Smyth Realiser but also those who aren’t inclined to fork out the considerable expense for one). This method probably won’t be as good as the Smyth Realiser combo but should, in principle, work in a very similar if not exactly the same way.

Users could try outputting Dolby Atmos content to the Yarra in the already pre-binauralised ‘*Dolby Atmos for Headphones*’ format. This wouldn’t require Mch surround output, just 2ch stereo and could be done via PC, Xbox One (or even some of the newer flagship cell phones that support Atmos such as the Razer Phone 2, One Plus 7 Pro and the Samsung Galaxy S9 and 10).


Source Content:

Aside from the obvious Atmos Blurays, one could try Atmos supported Netflix titles on Xbox One or the aforementioned, cell phones, Atmos supported games, or any of the free Atmos demo content from the Dolby Access app on Windows 10 or Xbox. The Dolby Access app is free but ‘Atmos for Headphones’ costs something like 15 bucks for a lifetime licence for multiple devices. However, there should also be a free trial of 30 days.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/apps/access/pc-xbox.html

For Netflix App on Windows 10 PC, I am unsure as to whether Atmos for Headphone specifically is supported yet. Atmos content is available and marked as such within the app and Atmos for headphone can of course be activated in the Windows sound settings (you can do that with any content anyway as for non-Atmos content it just works like an upgraded version of Dolby Headphone virtual surround),  but during playback in the Netflix app itself, ‘5.1’ is the maximum that can be selected for the audio track in the App’s playback options with no mention of Atmos. . . I haven’t had a chance to test out any content where Atmos mixing would be obvious (stuff flying overhead etc.) but according to various forum reports recounting interactions with Netflix support, this ‘5.1’ setting is a compressed encoding of Atmos in a Dolby Digital Plus Container while some users have reported being told by support that Atmos for Headphones is only supported by Netflix on Xbox and not Netflix on Windows 10 PC. So, conflicting reports, so might be better to test Netflix Atmos for headphones on Xbox if in doubt and you have the console anyway.



Atmos Encoded Xbox and PC games:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/categories/games.html

(- note support for Atmos in the PC version of Assassins Creed Odyssey was patched-out / removed a while after release so Atmos for Headphones in AC Origins is for Xbox One only)



Configuration of Sources:

Windows 10 PC:

 You would just need to go to ‘spatial sound’ settings in the sound manager (right click on output device, then choose properties and it should be the tab furthest to the right) or alternatively, right click on the speaker icon in the system tray on the desktop and choose ‘spatial sound’ then Dolby Atmos. Doing the above will change speaker configuration to stereo in the windows sound manager but don’t worry, that’s how it’s supposed to work (don’t bother trying to set it back to multichannel as it won’t do anything other than automatically turn Atmos for Headphones _OFF_). Also note that Dolby Atmos is limited to sample rate / bit depth of 48khz / 16-bit by the Windows OS and enabling Atmos will set this parameter accordingly. If you then try and change it to something else, it will automatically _DISABLE_ Atmos for headphone, so leave as is.


Xbox One:

You would just need to set Atmos for Headphone to output via HDMI or Optical in the audio settings and connect to Yarra accordingly.


Cell Phone:

Not sure as don’t have one that supports Atmos but presumably, once Atmos for Headphone is set in the audio settings, it should still work via simple Bluetooth or 3.5mm output to the Yarra.


So, if you’re remotely interested in Atmos via the Yarra, give it a whirl!
 I have no idea how it will turn out and as soon as I get mine I will test and provide impressions. As it stands though, I don’t think there is any other currently mass commercially available way to do this via the Yarra yet as the Smyth A16 is still awaiting release. This method  (assuming it works to at least some degree of satisfaction) would cost peanuts, wouldn’t require extra hardware in the middle and is free to test extensively at leisure for the 30 days of free trial. Furthermore, DTS X support is coming to Windows and Xbox soon and could also potentially be output via the Yarra in the same way although I could find no indication of whether the Windows implementation of DTS X will include the necessary headphone format as with Atmos to do so.


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## camillem

I have received mine yesterday in France


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## SierraMadre (Jul 9, 2019)

I’d really appreciate if recipients could share their impressions of the supposed *multichannel PCM surround* (5.1 / 7.1 etc.) support.

Former campaign consultant / creator, Dr. Mark Waldrep said it would _not_ be supported last year when somebody asked him on a forum, then this year Comhear said it _would_ be supported (in their final spec sheet when they suddenly and ‘miraculously’ broke radio silence).

Keen for clarification. Is it supported and if so, via HDMI, USB or both?


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## AppleheadMay

Thanks for posting your thoughts @SierraMadre !
I have 2 Yarra incoming (one arrived today at my wife's business, the other will hopefully arrive as well).
One will surve for my Mac, the other for my PC. 
They will be connected to the Realiser A16's back RCA headphone outputs whenever that one comes in.
For the mean time I'll simply connect them to the phones out of both computers to keep it simple.

But what i wonder through:
- what kind of sound will you get via USB input which is what they indicate as the input to be used for computers in the manual?
- can one also output from PC/Mac to the HDMI in port and connect the HDMI out (Arc) port to the monitor and will that have impact on resolution and refresh rate?


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## SierraMadre (Jul 9, 2019)

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks for posting your thoughts @SierraMadre !
> I have 2 Yarra incoming (one arrived today at my wife's business, the other will hopefully arrive as well).
> One will surve for my Mac, the other for my PC.
> They will be connected to the Realiser A16's back RCA headphone outputs whenever that one comes in.
> ...


 
USB input would be linear PCM, the question is whether it will be limited to stereo or support multichannel pcm.

As for HDMI, yes you could do that. You would just set PC audio output to HDMI. The Yarra spec is HDMI 2.0a standard AFAIK, possibly 2.0b, so in terms of refresh rate / resolution you would only be limited by whatever the refresh rate / resolution ceiling of the relevant HDMI standard. 4K 60 and HDR should be fine. I wouldn’t bank on it successfully handling anything extra like AMD’s Freesync though.


----------



## AppleheadMay

SierraMadre said:


> USB input would be linear PCM, the question is whether it will be limited to stereo or support multichannel pcm.
> 
> As for HDMI, yes you could do that. You would just set PC audio output to HDMI. The spec is HDMI 2.0a standard AFAIK, possibly 2.0b so in terms of refresh rate / resolution you would only be limited by whatever the refresh rate / resolution ceiling of the relevant HDMI standard. 4K 60 and HDR should be fine. I wouldn’t bank on it successfully handling anything extra like AMD’s Freesync though.



Thanks! 
Yes, HDMI probably won't be the best solution as I have an RTX2080Ti and Ultrawide monitors, temporary ones for the moment to be replaced with the new 200Hz Asus G-Sync HDR model. Probably will never get that resolution and refresh rate through the Yarra.
I'll give USB and HDMI a try after the weekend though, have 3 days off then.


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## SierraMadre (Jul 9, 2019)

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks!
> Yes, HDMI probably won't be the best solution as I have an RTX2080Ti and Ultrawide monitors, temporary ones for the moment to be replaced with the new 200Hz Asus G-Sync HDR model. Probably will never get that resolution and refresh rate through the Yarra.
> I'll give USB and HDMI a try after the weekend though, have 3 days off then.



G-sync is display port only, presently won’t work at all via HDMI. To get sound to the Yarra in that instance, you would be best with USB or outputting *audio only* to the Yarra via HDMI while connecting the PC direct to the monitor via DisplayPort for the visual feed. That would also preserve access to the higher refresh rates that the Yarra HDMI does not support.

As an alternative, you could also output from PC via optical. This would be limited to 2 channel PCM or, if your PC supports it, Dolby Digital 5.1 (optical won’t carry higher than 2 channel PCM while Dolby Digital 5.1 is the only compressed surround format that the Yarra is able to natively decode).


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## AppleheadMay

SierraMadre said:


> G-sync is display port only, presently won’t work at all via HDMI. To get sound to the Yarra in that instance, you would be best with USB or outputting *audio only* to the Yarra via HDMI while connecting the PC direct to the monitor via DisplayPort for the visual feed. That would also preserve access to the higher refresh rates that the Yarra HDMI does not support.
> 
> As an alternative, you could also output from PC via optical. This would be limited to 2 channel PCM or, if your PC supports it, Dolby Digital 5.1 (optical won’t carry higher than 2 channel PCM while Dolby Digital 5.1 is the only compressed surround format that the Yarra is able to natively decode).



Didn't even think about that. 
I'll install them via USB and later add them to the Realiser via RCA as well. That way I always have sound from both PC's and can get better 3D sound from one of both ath a time via the Realiser as I have to choose an input there.

Thanks for helping me figuring the setup out so fast! 
Will install the first one I got Thursday, hopefully I get the second one by then as well, the shipped together.


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## Dixter

If Dr. Mark Waldrep is watching this thread can you share in the setup that was used with the Smyth A8 realiser and the Yarra...  or if anybody else might have the answer would be good too...


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## sahmen

Dixter said:


> If Dr. Mark Waldrep is watching this thread can you share in the setup that was used with the Smyth A8 realiser and the Yarra...  or if anybody else might have the answer would be good too...



I'd also like to get the input of @Dr AIX on this matter


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## sander99 (Jul 10, 2019)

Dixter said:


> Should be interesting using the A8 or A16 with the Yarra sound bar as the A8/A16 headtrackers should output properly with the speaker arrays of the Yarra...
> 
> http://idfrancetv.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/OBA17_Beamforming-Transaural-Soundbars-Simon.mp4?_=6


"as the A8/A16 headtrackers should output properly with the speaker arrays of the Yarra"
I don't know exactly what you mean with this, but the standard headtracking of the A8/A16 will not give a correct result in this situation (using the A8/A16 with the Yarra). When looking forward the sound from the Yarra is coming from the front center (assuming you put the Yarra centered in front of you). That means that the binaural signal should be filtered with the inverse of your center-front HRTF (otherwise the binaural signal will have an additional center-front-HRTF overlayed on all the HRTF filtering that the A8/A16 has already done). This hopefully can be realised by doing a HPEQ of the Yarra in front of you (you in your normal listening position looking forward center). However if you turn your head for example 30 degrees to the left, the natural HRTF signal being overlayed on the binaural signal now corresponds to sounds coming from 30 degrees right. So at this moment the HPEQ does not do the proper compensation. At this moment there should be an additional filtering - instead of  what the HPEQ currently does - with the inverse of your HRTF for 30 degrees right!
Additional clarification: note that all the time the A8/A16 will create a proper binaural signal for headphones, correctly compensated for the head movement, but the problem is in the changing natuaral acoustic HRTF filtering that this signal will go trough on it's way from the Yarra to your ears.
In fact turning the head tracking off will probably cause less problems for sounds coming from the front. But the best result you will only have while looking straight forward.
[Edit: actually there are similar problems with the Inter Aural Time Delay: when you turn your head to the left there will be a longer travel time from the Yarra to your left ear than to your right ear. The A8/A16 will not have compensated for that (because with headphones moving your head the drivers stay at the same distance to your ears).]


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## camillem

Hi, i have received my Yarra 3 days ago but didn't have time to try it yet.

here are some pics


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## AppleheadMay (Jul 11, 2019)

Well, one of my two Yarra has gone missing, none of the tracking companies that handled it know where it is.
What is the best way to contact Comhear on an email address they do reply to? Getting no reply from them so far.

Or better, if anyone wants to sell me a black Yarra I'd be happy to pay a nice sum for it as only one is useless in my setup.

Or can I still order one new somewhere?


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## Dr AIX

Dixter said:


> If Dr. Mark Waldrep is watching this thread can you share in the setup that was used with the Smyth A8 realiser and the Yarra...  or if anybody else might have the answer would be good too...



I used a Blu-ray player with content that was already binauralized sent to the A8 using HDMI. Glad to see that some have received their units. I'm still waiting for the two that I pledged for. 

BTW, a contact at Comhear is carrie.garcia@comhear.com. I don't know if she's still there but I did have some interaction with her no too long ago.

Mark


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## sander99

Dr AIX said:


> I used a Blu-ray player with content that was already binauralized sent to the A8 using HDMI.


I have a feeling something went wrong composing this sentence. As if you had already binauralised content on the disc, but then there would be nothing to do for the A8? Or did you mean you the blue-ray player sent multi channel audio to the A8, the A8 binauralised that and sent the binauralized audio to the Yarra?


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## arabesc

I received two my units yesterday.
The first impression - I'm not impressed.
Someone on the Indiegogo has said that it sounds like a tin can. I'm not going to argue. There are chinese soundbars ten times cheaper and I don't think they are much worse.
The unit doesn't expose native volume control through the USB connection (is it a general USB audio device limit?), so, there's no volume control in MacOS and there is software (lossy due to double signal suppression) volume control in Windows. It's inconvenient.
The unit automatically turns off after some period of inactivity and I haven't found a way to turn it on automatically when I want some sound. It's necessary to press a power button and select a sound output device in a system. It's like a device from 90th, but it's not funny. You have to press lots of buttons constantly to control it.
I haven't understood the logic behind the mobile app that persistently wants to switch the sound mode from the stereo to the surround that sounds, hmm, weird to my taste.
There are four large buttons on the every side of the soundbar, it's nearly impossible to take the bar by the sides and not press some buttons. Industrial design? Who knows...
I'd wanted a refund long time ago and tried to contact Comhear a few times, but they had ignored all my requests.
I'm not satisfied for the money I've paid.


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## sander99

@arabesc : could it be possible that you did not set it up optimally yet? Are you sure the beams are aimed at your ears the way they should? Are you sitting at a suitable distance, using the correct mode for that distance? Are you sure the sub is working ok, level and maybe delay correctly matched with the soundbar? Does the sub have a built in low-pass filter with variable crossover frequency that could be set too low?
(I don't know how all that should be done exactly or how the optimal result sounds like but I can imagine that the result will be far from optimal if not setup properly. Most of all the proper aiming of the beams, if that is not done correct it would sound extremely weird indeed because that is the key to how the whole thing works.)


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## esimms86

arabesc said:


> I received two my units yesterday.
> The first impression - I'm not impressed.
> Someone on the Indiegogo has said that it sounds like a tin can. I'm not going to argue. There are chinese soundbars ten times cheaper and I don't think they are much worse.
> The unit doesn't expose native volume control through the USB connection (is it a general USB audio device limit?), so, there's no volume control in MacOS and there is software (lossy due to double signal suppression) volume control in Windows. It's inconvenient.
> ...


I don't have my unit and, since I live on the east coast of the United States, I expect to be one of last people to receive it. Now, I have zero hands on experience with the Yarra 3DX and I don't for a moment pretend to have any notion as to why your experience with your unit has been unsatisfactory. I do, however, want to point out something out for any people planning to post impressions. Please do not be offended as this is not my intention in any way, and please know that I am in no way questioning how thorough you've been in setting up and testing your unit. I would just like to point out the obvious which is, please, please, please, people, please consult the manual/quickstart guide/faq and do a little troubleshooting (if needed) before posting impressions. There are many of us here waiting expectantly, hoping to enjoy our units when they arrive. A Yarra 3DX Users thread would also be great for people to turn to to sort out any issues they may experience. In closing, here are the links posted in the recent Yarra 3DX Kickstarter email. The 4th link refers to the quickstart guide. Thanks for indulging me and hearing me out.


http://www.yarra3dx.com/support/

http://www.yarra3dx.com/faq-2/

http://www.yarra3dx.com/wp-content/uploads/Yarra3DXManual.pdf

http://www.yarra3dx.com/wp-content/uploads/QSGHDMI.pdf


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## arabesc (Jul 11, 2019)

sander99 said:


> Does the sub have a built in low-pass filter with variable crossover frequency that could be set too low?


I haven't found anything like the variable crossover frequency control. However, there's a separate volume control for the sub and some bass boost feature.
BTW, there's a user's manual available.



sander99 said:


> I don't know how all that should be done exactly or how the optimal result sounds like but I can imagine that the result will be far from optimal if not setup properly.


I haven't tried a real surround yet, I just listen to a stereo. I can't say that it's absolutely awful, but there's nothing special for the money.



sander99 said:


> Most of all the proper aiming of the beams, if that is not done correct it would sound extremely weird indeed because that is the key to how the whole thing works.)


As far as I remember there has been promised a great sound experience for the in beam listeners and a good stereo for listeners outside beams. I tried to listen a stereo source in the surround mode and I didn't like it.


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## arabesc

esimms86 said:


> I would just like to point out the obvious which is, please, please, please, people, please consult the manual/quickstart guide/faq and do a little troubleshooting (if needed) before posting impressions.


Ok, that was my first impression and I will refrain from further comments until there will be more device users.
One more note: I found it unusual that an audio device (that targets to $599) doesn't have specification for its audio capabilities.


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## esimms86

arabesc said:


> Ok, that was my first impression and I will refrain from further comments until there will be more device users.
> One more note: I found it unusual that an audio device (that targets to $599) doesn't have specification for its audio capabilities.


I’m not asking you not to post. I do, however, think that it would be wonderful if you and others would post any tips that you happen upon to make the experience easier for other owners.


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## Dr AIX

sander99 said:


> I have a feeling something went wrong composing this sentence. As if you had already binauralised content on the disc, but then there would be nothing to do for the A8? Or did you mean you the blue-ray player sent multi channel audio to the A8, the A8 binauralised that and sent the binauralized audio to the Yarra?


You're right...I've demoed the YARRA 3DX from my laptop as well and that content was binauralized. The HDMI out of a Blu-ray player sent the 5.1 surround sound to the A8, which then did the binauralization and the outputs were sent to the YARRA. I played a variety of discs including the Beatles Sgt. Peppers and QUeen.


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## Dixter

Dr AIX said:


> You're right...I've demoed the YARRA 3DX from my laptop as well and that content was binauralized. The HDMI out of a Blu-ray player sent the 5.1 surround sound to the A8, which then did the binauralization and the outputs were sent to the YARRA. I played a variety of discs including the Beatles Sgt. Peppers and QUeen.



do you know what the PRIR and HQEP was that you used for the demo with the A8 ???

thanks


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## NigelJ

Having just received my Yarra 3DX in the UK today, I find it strange that a product that supposedly entered production in April 2019 includes a flyer with a special backer offer of a discount on a further order valid until 31 January 2019. I have not yet had any opportunity to test the unit.


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## SierraMadre

For any confused about (lack of) surround effect / cues:

Multichannel PCM and non-Dolby Surround formats

The *Multichannel* PCM promised (in the final email update to backers when they announced they would shortly be ready to ship) clearly doesn’t work properly (if at all), neither by USB nor HDMI. Have tried a variety of sources and I get no proper surround channels at all. I haven’t seen a single commenter on any of the forums thus far say that PCM surround works.

The system does not support DTS or other surround formats.


Dolby Digital Surround 

The only way to get proper surround on the Yarra is from content encoded in Dolby surround formats bitstreamed to the Yarra from your source device as Dolby Digital 5.1. If there’s no Dolby Digital 5.1 in the audio stream you’re feeding the Yarra then you won’t get Surround.

If your source content is *not* Dolby encoded, the only way you will get surround on the Yarra from that content is if your Media player, games console, PC, TV ARC etc. can convert PCM multichannel surround into Dolby digital 5.1 or transcode other non-Dolby Surround formats such as DTS into DD5.1. 

(Warning for those using ARC without previous experience: On some usually older TVs, ARC does not support 5.1 DD passthrough (some do, some don’t, most recent models do), in which case you will only be feeding 2.0 stereo to the Yarra).

The Xbox 360/One/One X and the Playstation 3 / 4/ Pro consoles can definitely do this (convert to DD5.1) for games and DVD/Bluray DTS content, you just need to select bitstream in the audio output settings and choose Dolby Digital 5.1. Some DVD/Bluray players and PC soundcard / motherboard audio chip drivers are capable to differing degrees of transcoding some non-Dolby formats and Multichannel PCM into Dolby 5.1 too.

(*In the case of Xbox One consoles specifically (not sure about PlayStation), for DTS encoded DVD and Bluray content, you need to ensure that that the System’s Bluray Player app setting of “let my receiver decode” is un-ticked, otherwise you would just be passing the DTS through to the Yarra which won’t result in surround.)


Testing DD5.1 surround cues

DD5.1 Surround testing via films and TV shows can be hard if you don’t already have strong familiarity with how the surround effect should sound on a properly setup true 5.1 speaker system, or at the very least how it sounds when converted into virtual surround format with decent headphones. Pause/rewind/play of film and TV scenes, rinse and repeat can get pretty tedious.

For this reason it may be easier to conduct at least some of your testing via a surround test function on a DVD or Bluray (THX branded ones often have such tests), a speaker/channel test on a PC that supports DD5.1 (using windows in-built sound manager etc.) or via a video game. The latter two options are particularly useful in in that they offer more control over the testing of directional cues for the various channels as you please.
If the video game supports surround sound and has free control of the camera view then just find a consistently emitting sound source in gameplay, say a fire or waterfall etc., and just rotate the camera around your character to test different angles of origin and also to test perceived depth (of the cues) try moving your character to test different positions and distances. 

Testing on PC

Provided your motherboard audio chip or sound card supports multichannel audio and Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding, then all you need to do is set your PC to 5.1 speaker config in the sound manager and, in the case of games, set audio to “surround” in the in-game audio options, should there be any. 

If you are not a gamer, don’t own a console and don’t want to spend money on games, there are games which are free to play or trial on PC and some of these use surround sound. 

Be mindful that game surround tracks tend to be mixed a bit differently from movie and TV surround. Rear cues tend to be much louder and feel much closer than front cues, even if the ‘virtual’ distance in-game from the source cue is the same.


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## SierraMadre (Jul 29, 2019)

*Impressions of Yarra 3DX surround capabilities*

TLDR:

Multichannel PCM doesn’t work at all for surround whether via usb or HDMI. You have to feed it Dolby Digital 5.1 for surround (with the exception of pre-binauralised content, in which case see last bullet point 

At near field distances, the far field surround mode processing of Dolby Digital 5.1  is more noticable and convincing and for me closer to the experience of a true setup.

In terms of DD5.1 surround effect (rear cues in particular), although good, it still feels / sounds more like processed virtual surround than it does a true setup.

Pre-binauralised content fed to the Yarra in 2.0 stereo requires the Yarra’s surround mode to be in effect (i.e. double HRTF) in order to be convincingly enveloping and positional cues to be accurate. Unfortunately doing this also destroys the sound quality / fidelity.

*Elaboration:*

Multichannel PCM

USB from PC only registers the Yarra in the Windows sound manager as a 2.0 stereo device. 

HDMI from PC shows the Yarra in the sound manager as a surround capable device with various multichannel configurations up to 7.1 selectable. . . but none of them result in any output over the surround channels. 

Dolby Digital 5.1

When DD5.1 works on the Yarra, the Surround Effect can be very good but produces a similar effect to headphone VSS and as such will be limited by the mixing of the source content and the limitations of VSS. Rear channel sounds will be appreciable but feel somewhat artificial/processed, particularly in videogames where rear cues are often boosted in comparison to front cues. In terms of rear and side cues, it is not noticably better than the best headphone / virtual surround combos. The advantage it does have over headphones however is its installation position as physical source of the sound either beneath or close to the TV / monitor screen, thereby avoiding the perceived “in your head” disconnect you can get with headphones clamped to your ears in comparison to the physical distance between you and the speakers and the Tv or monitor. So I guess in that sense cues from the front/center tend to feel like they have more depth and distance (but then again that would likely be the case with any physical speaker setup).

Near field vs Far field Surround modes

While I am not familiar with the exact mechanics behind Yarra’s surround field processing and output, I was under the impression that the bundle of sound beams would be output in a wider, more diffuse pattern in near field mode in order to create an enveloping surround effect for the close range user while the far field bundle of beams would be narrower and more focused at point of origin in order to preserve equivalent separation and surround effect at farther distances where the effect created by the near field mode would have otherwise dissipated due to being much wider and more diffuse to begin with.

Regardless, in practice (at least to my ears and no matter what ambient preset or HRTF model I use), at near field range the surround effect is much more apparent, enveloping and convincing if using the far field mode instead. . .!?
I have yet to try in a different room which would allow me to test both near and far field modes at a far field listening distance. Will update if I get a chance.


Binaural Content and Pre-binauralised surround mixes using pre-existing virtual Virtual Surround sound solutions.

In the few instances I have seen this previously discussed by commenters on forums, the big concern appeared to be ensuring that Yarra’s surround mode could be turned off to avoid double HRTF or the re-binauralisation of already binauralised content.

Well, in my testing of specifically binaural tracks like “virtual barbershop” and also discrete multichannel content binauralised into headphone virtual surround (via Dolby Atmos for Headphone, DTS Virtual X and Creative SBX surround) then fed to the Yarra, the Yarra’s surround effect needs to be set to “ON”, presumably to detect and exploit the various cues in the pre-binauralised 2.0 stereo. While the mechanics behind it may well be different, in terms of results, it reminds me of using Dolby Pro Logic or DTS Neo on surround content that has been downsampled into 2.0 stereo. You won’t get much in the way of surround effect from it unless you use something to intelligently upmix back into some semblance of the original surround.

In every instance and sample content I tried, setting the Yarra to stereo just meant the cues and depth were all over the place, with rear and sides totally off, whether in near or far field modes. Setting the Yarra to surround on the other hand, positioned the cues exactly where they were supposed to be.

If you want to try this out, just go to the “virtual barber shop” binaural demo on YouTube. Listen to it a couple of times using the best pair of headphones you have, familiarising yourself with the positional cues. Now try that same content with the Yarra. In stereo mode, the bits where the barber is behind you and cutting the hair around your ears sounded markedly in front of me with no illusion of rear placement, rather than cutting my hair, it sounded like he was cutting somebody else’s hair a foot or two in front of me. Setting the Yarra to surround mode fixed this and the cues were back to where they should be. Unfortunately however, doing this also wrecks the sound quality. So at present, the choice for such binaural content is either inaccurate directional positioning of cues with OK sound quality or good positioning but terrible sound quality.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jul 28, 2019)

@Dr AIX
Dr. Waldrep, are you able to provide any details regarding the 9 HRTF presets available on the Yarra when it is fed with Dolby Digital processing? There is currently no information available in the official support literature.

 I assume they are based on different dummy head models and it would certainly be useful to know of any available measurements / characteristics for each preset (for example, head circumference, inter-aural arc etc.).

When the product was still in development you shared some characteristics of modes available at the time using terms such as “ambient on / off” - is this is some kind of room / reverb effect? - and “masking / no masking” - I would be grateful if you could explain this term.

Many thanks


----------



## sander99

SierraMadre said:


> Dolby Digital 5.1


Do you, or anyone else, know what is the highest bitrate Dolby Digital (normally the max is 640 kbit/s I think) that the Yarra accepts? And maybe if it can accept Dolby Digital Plus (which supports up to 6.144 Mbit/s I think, but I maybe that is only for more than 5.1 channels)?


----------



## raband

What are the general thoughts of those who got the Yarra?

Is the unit what you were hoping or a bit underwhelming?


----------



## SierraMadre (Jul 29, 2019)

sander99 said:


> Do you, or anyone else, know what is the highest bitrate Dolby Digital (normally the max is 640 kbit/s I think) that the Yarra accepts? And maybe if it can accept Dolby Digital Plus (which supports up to 6.144 Mbit/s I think, but I maybe that is only for more than 5.1 channels)?


It can’t decode DD+ natively per se but AFAIK, it should be able to extract vanilla DD5.1 from a DD+ feed as DD+ is supposed to offer a degree of compatibility with devices that can only decode DD5.1.   You just wouldn’t get the enhanced spec / benefits that DD+ offers over vanilla DD5.1.

The only way to know for sure is to feed/pass DD+ to the Yarra directly and see what happens. If the light turns blue, it’s receiving and decoding vanilla DD of some sort. You could just test some surround content in that instance to see if it’s DD2.0 or 5.1.

In marketing material, Comhear said they would look into licensing / adding support for further surround formats / codecs in the future via FW update but I wouldn’t hold my breath, particularly if they don’t go the commercial mass market route.

So, as of now, the only (potential) support that is unclear is multichannel PCM. 
Mark Waldrep said it wasn’t supported in forum posts (and right now, it clearly isn’t) but the subsequent  spec / feature list in a later / more recent email update from Comhear to backers (a month or two before shipping), lists multichannel PCM as being supported. . . Clerical error or is it supposed to implemented either now (in which case it’s broken) or later (in which case development must be behind schedule)?

As for DD5.1 bitrate, don’t know. Presumably the highest allowed by vanilla DD 5.1.


----------



## mikemg

raband said:


> What are the general thoughts of those who got the Yarra?
> 
> Is the unit what you were hoping or a bit underwhelming?



I have had the Yarra for about ten days and have tested it twice 
With optical and aux 
First of all it feels like a beta test product still needs a number of firmware updates 
Especially a very underwhelming sub woofer 
This is a passive sub with no ability to alter the crossover frequency so is a nightmare 
to wake-up from standby (orange) to active (green) 
Mostly going back to standby even though the right level of sound and bass is playing 
For me this is a major issue as without the sub active the sound is thin and almost metallic 
I am hoping this is going to be sorted with firmware update 
To me the subwoofer is not capable of supporting the soundbar , and should have been supplied with a powered sub 
Will try out in couple of days with a powered sub see if this makes a huge difference
Until this is solved the jury's out for me as I have to keep taking cinch sub cable out restarting the Yarra to wake it up 
Has anybody else experienced this problem 
Any advice would be great as to how I wake the sub


----------



## SierraMadre (Aug 19, 2019)

mikemg said:


> I have had the Yarra for about ten days and have tested it twice
> With optical and aux
> First of all it feels like a beta test product still needs a number of firmware updates
> Especially a very underwhelming sub woofer
> ...


Sub signal dropping out and the sub going into to standby appears to be a common problem. I had no problems until the latest firmware at which point drops started happening and increasing in frequency the more I used it. Sometimes reconnecting the connector cable would wake it back up, other times, I  would need to cold reboot the Yarra itself.
 Getting the sub to ‘engage’ at the start of a session was always an issue for me even prior to the update but only a very minor one, just fiddle with the volume slider in the Yarra app would always wake it up. This still works at the beginning of a session but as previously mentioned, it doesn’t always wake it up when it goes to sleep mid-session.
Apparently Comhear have acknowledged the issue and will be releasing a firmware update in the next week or two although I doubt that will include crossover adjustment.


----------



## mikemg

SierraMadre said:


> Sub signal dropping out and the sub going into to standby appears to be a common problem. I had no problems until the latest firmware at which point drops started happening and increasing in frequency the more I used it. Sometimes reconnecting the connector cable would wake it back up, other times, I  would need to cold reboot the Yarra itself.
> Getting the sub to ‘engage’ at the start of a session was always an issue for me even prior to the update but only a very minor one, just fiddle with the sub’s volume slider in the Yarra app would always wake it up. This still works at the beginning of a session but as previously mentioned, it doesn’t always wake it up when it goes to sleep mid-session.
> Apparently Comhear have acknowledged the issue and will be releasing a firmware update in the next week or two although I doubt that will include crossover adjustment.


Thanks do you think if I used powered subwoofer with adjustable crossover it will give a far better bass support to the Yarra and improve the overall sound 

Ideally one I can keep permanenly powered on with no standby 

I personally think the one supplied is underpowered passive ported sub and is a very low quality subwoofer which needs to be upgraded to 
something far more powerful 

Do you agree


----------



## SierraMadre

mikemg said:


> Thanks do you think if I used powered subwoofer with adjustable crossover it will give a far better bass support to the Yarra and improve the overall sound
> 
> Ideally one I can keep permanenly powered on with no standby
> 
> ...


Dunno tbh. Subs are not really my area of expertise or experience and for my use case (medium sized bedroom), setting sub volume to between 85% and 100 and engaging bass boost if necessary (depending on the content) has been sufficient for me.

 It’s worth a try, I guess, if you have a spare one lying around, but if not, then I’d give it a couple of weeks to see what Comhear can do for firmware before spending any more money. They are well aware of complaints of low sub volume too.


----------



## eddiepropane

Hi all,

First and long post!!

UK backer received mine cpl of weeks ago but was a bit I'll to do much testing initially.

Subwoofer is pretty poor, I was also getting the issues with it triggering to on but the first firmware update mostly fixed it and then I swapped it for a powered Yamaha I had in the loft and then to a slightly smaller Harman Kardon with a better lead and it kicks in straight away and makes a much fuller sound so if you have a spare sub give it a blast!!

Mainly using far but also using near on headshape 7 which seems to like my block shaped head haha and when working well you can get good positional audio from binaural recording or a binauralised output from the Xbox but it is getting it to work fine... 

I am on latest firmware and can agree with lpcm statement above in regards to no center channel being mixed in to the sound, can hear surround effects but no center channel/voices. 

This has been using my Nvidia Shield, the only counter to that would be Amazon Prime which is 5.1 and does get all channels mixed and in surround without the blue light confirming DD on the unit.

Any other output on the Shield (mainly Kodi/Emby) to 7.1 channels so I could send decoded TrueHD etc is missing channels which is super annoying after the updates and the fact it is 2019 so regular DD 5.1 is so limited in bitrate etc we really need LPCM to be working. I am pretty sure I was still at school in 1996 when I got my first DD supporting Amp and speakers so supporting something a bit newer is really needed!!

This brings to my next and main issue and that is audio dropouts on HDMI, after Atmos was advertised then confirmed as not supported natively enquired about using the Atmos output to HDMI headset on Xbox/Win10 on Kickstarter and was advised that would be a good way to still get 3d audio out of the device (Think it was Dr AIX that replied at the time) but it just cuts out all of the time, when it is working it is awesome but cannot handle the dropouts. These don't just happen on the Xbox but any HDMI device I use, a cold reset normally resolves for a random period of time except the Xbox which goes dropout crazy!!

This does not happen on Toslink but the sound quality is degraded which I guess is that it drops to a 16bit @ 44khz DD 2.0 stream.

Does anyone have a HDMI 2.0 Win10 pc that can test HDR playback with Atmos for headsets enabled? 

Wondering if that part of it is Xbox related as the cold reset fixes on other devices but not when in game on the Xbox. Looking to get a little NUC or something if it can do HDR and Atmos with the Yarra.

Also, switching from Surround to Stereo is mental, you can save profiles for each but it does not respect the setting so if I ever need to change it have to open the app on my phone or plug it in to the laptop instead of press a button on the remote.

I have no doubt the unit can do as advertised regarding the beamforming and surround effect and when it works it is great but it currently is a little rough around the edges for usability and reliability.

Will post back further updates and results after any new firmwares and also happy to do any testing if anyone has requests or has solved the HDMI dropout issue


----------



## SierraMadre (Jul 29, 2019)

eddiepropane said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First and long post!!
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for sharing your experiences!

I have also been doing lots of testing on Xbox. I have a Win 10 and Dolby aAtmos for headphones but not HDR. I have a shield too but haven’t tried it yet. I experience dropouts on HDMI too but also on optical (at least from the Xbox) albeit to a much lesser degree. I have tried sending Atmos for headphones to the Yarra but found it to require the Yarra’s surround mode to be engaged for correct positional cues but then that would ruin the audio quality. Try the two forest demos on the Dolby Access app and compare it to actual headphones, I’d be be surprised if you didn’t notice a significant drop in fidelity by engaging the Yarra’s surround setting in that particular context. I found it sent the frequency level all over the place (in practical effect rather than on the Software apps equalizer function, which was at default neutral / flat) and made mids and highs sound very thin, sibilant and unnaturally boosted.

PCM Surround

As for Multichannel linear PCM, my experiences with getting _some_ sound aren’t entirely different from yours but I hadn’t previously mentioned them as I had discounted them. I did get a “center” channel and voices on the center channel sometimes but the volume was very weak in comparison to other effects. Sometimes, I was able to get some semblance of sides and rears through linear PCM output on Xbox BUT, this was not always recreatable even on the exact same content used in the exact same context, and, when it did happen, channels were missing (positional gaps when rotating the in-game camera around my character in various games). Most crucially however, and the reason I discounted it until now, was that in terms of depth, those LPCM ‘surround’ channels which were providing cues sounded much more like basic 2.0 stereo up-mixed into pseudo-surround rather than properly processed ‘true’ surround obtained when the Yarra decodes and outputs DD5.1 Surround content.

Reliability of Blue LED Dolby Digital Processing indicator

I also wouldn’t put absolute faith in the blue LED Dolby indicator. I have had that come on more than once when switching between LCPM output and add bitstream and I have also had it stay off when Dolby Digital 5.1 was clearly being fed to the system. . . Meaning that either the source device (Xbox etc.) was glitching and getting confused about what I was telling it to send to the Yarra or else the (software powering the) Yarra was getting confused about what format it was actually receiving and was misrepresenting that in the on / off status of the blue light and/or not changing its mode of operation accordingly. It didn’t happen often but when doing A/B tests between different settings and sources, it occurred with enough frequency to notice and to require I pay even more attention to the settings and modes engaged in testing on all devices in the chain!


Optical

I haven’t found any significant difference between optical quality and HDMI quality other than that optical is less prone to glitching artefacts and dropouts which only seem to occur when Dolby Digital processing is engaged. 

Dolby Dropouts

As above, only happens to me when Dolby processing mode is engaged (surround or stereo). Interestingly, it can still output linear PCM 2.0 when this happens (if I say change to a different input or change the source output format to feed it non-Dolby / PCM). Sometimes, changing the settings on the app or with the remote and then back again, will restore the sound in DD5.1 mode. Sometimes, disconnecting the source cable (optical etc. and reconnecting) will work. But following the last firmware update, I now sometimes even have to cold reboot the system before I can restore DD processing.

I will do some more tests in light of your findings though to see if there was anything I missed.


----------



## mikemg

eddiepropane said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First and long post!!
> 
> ...


Hi one test I tried today was an android phone supporting Dolby Atmos for headphones plugged into the aux jack and a Dolby Atmos demo 
Some of the YouTube Dolby Atmos demos using near field setting and sub active produced interesting results
Sitting about 4  ft away it was fairly convincing with close to I can only call it a swirling sound field moving around in a spherical path way outside of the physical size of the Yarra 
I think the Yarra can using psycho accoustics emulate Dolby Atmos with a few restrictions
It's early days hoping once the fw updates arrive it will be even better 
What I am not convinced about  is that the Yarra makes a good hdmi TV soundbar with its current sub as it isn't even close to my existing 5.1 sound system


----------



## esimms86

The products shipped to the U.S. were due to arrive in California on July 22nd. Does anyone have any verification as to whether or not that actually took place? Also, have any backers in the U.S. received track information? Thanks.


----------



## L8MDL

This was posted on the Kickstarter page 3 days ago:

"In case anyone in the US is wondering where there units are, this is the reply I got:
"Hello,
Tracking numbers for US delivery have not been released. We will update everyone when the units arrive at Fedex port of Los Angeles.
Thank you!""


----------



## ajax1

I just posted this comment on the Kickstarter link for the YARRA 3DX

"
Great News for US backers.

I am in the Los Angeles area and I got a text from Fedex that my YARRA will arrive tomorrow - Tuesday. I am registered with Fedex to receive texts as shipping status changes. YARRA tracking had been listed as PENDING since 6/12/2019.

I have not yet received any tracking information directly from Comhear

"


----------



## esimms86

ajax1 said:


> I just posted this comment on the Kickstarter link for the YARRA 3DX
> 
> "
> Great News for US backers.
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## L8MDL

Sounds like the crate arrived!


----------



## mikemav

I am in DC area and just got a notice from my FedEx account to expect a shipment from Comhear this Friday....


----------



## sahmen

Also got notification that my two Yarra packages are due for delivery by Fedex here in Massachusetts on Monday.


----------



## esimms86

sahmen said:


> Also got notification that my two Yarra packages are due for delivery by Fedex here in Massachusetts on Monday.


Am also in Massachusetts, also with Fedex delivery expected on Monday.


----------



## L8MDL

Notice received for Friday, 8/2 delivery. Good things come to those who wait.


----------



## mikemg

raband said:


> What are the general thoughts of those who got the Yarra?
> 
> Is the unit what you were hoping or a bit underwhelming?



I am going to be as honest as I can as I have now spent over 6 hours testing every aspect of the Yarra , and I am sorry to say the Yarra is not a finished product , and I am astonished it was released in this unfinished form without checking so many fundamental issues 


1: HDMi dropouts random but continuous 


2: Volume Distortion from so many sources 

3: Subwoofer providing minimal bass support and going to sleep 

4: Bass Management / CrossoverFrequency in the Yarra won’t supply loud enough signal to kick start Sub 

5: As a TV Soundbar it doesn’t stack up as sound quality is thin and metallic with no warmth 
6: Headphone socket wouldn’t drive my headphones to anything other than very low sound volume  


I seriously hope these issues can be resolved with firmware updates but I am not sure if fw updates will sort so many issues 


I was so concerned I sought an independent home cinema test from a hi if expert company I have known for years so I took the Yarra over to them and they setup a number of demos 


The background to this U.K. high end company is they sell Arcam and many other quality products and strangely enough they had been asked to evaluate the Senheisser Ambeo Soundbar the previous week so they knew a huge amount about Dolby Atmos and surround sound DTS etc 


First they connected the Yarra to my sub and within a minute said why is the sound so thin and within a few minutes even though my sub showed it was active we swapped it for a mid range REL and new sub cable 


Unfortunately it made no difference to the overall sound 


After many other tests they agreed that this was far from a finished product with many issues that I had identified and as a comparison to the Sennheiser it didn’t come close as the sound this bar produces is without midrange or bass producing a thin metallic sound 


They also agreed the Bass Management signal from the Yarra sound bar is so low that it is very rare the sub provides any bass or lfe support 


These are the most positive comments made by them and concur with my findings 


They also couldn’t understand why the equaliser needed to be anything but flat 


I hope these issues can be solved as I am very unhappy with this situation 


Anybody else agree with my comments


----------



## SierraMadre (Aug 1, 2019)

mikemg said:


> I am going to be as honest as I can as I have now spent over 6 hours testing every aspect of the Yarra , and I am sorry to say the Yarra is not a finished product , and I am astonished it was released in this unfinished form without checking so many fundamental issues
> 
> 
> 1: HDMi dropouts random but continuous
> ...


I agree with most of what you say but with some qualification and dependent on source and mode.


1. Audio quality based on content:

The sub won’t win any awards and has obvious issues as to remaining consistently engaged, but, *if* it is engaged and not withstanding intermittent glitches / artefacting, I have found the quality to be decent (not spectacular but with sufficient warmth and richness not to be too “thin and metallic”), *provided* the feed is set to Dolby Digital with the Yarra doing the decoding natively set to either stereo or surround. That being said, all virtual surround sound solutions tend to introduce at least some degree of reverb which may come across as metallic to some to different degrees. This shouldn’t apply in stereo mode though.


2. Audio quality based on Inputs:

Haven’t bothered much with USB due to robotic / metallic distortion. I should try another USB cable just to be sure though (have only tried 2 thus far). HDMI and optical have been good (within the context of point number 1) not withstanding aforementioned intermittent glitching / artefacting.


3.Equaliser and presets:

Doesn’t need to not be flat. More likely your testers ran afoul of the various problems with the UI. It’s hard to get settings to stick, particularly on the iOS app, (I have found the Android app to be the most reliable) and there is no way to change between stereo and surround mode using just the remote other than to change between near and far field modes which appears to automatically engage surround and often also reset the equaliser, content presets and HRTF to the profile default. Basically, using the remote, you can change to surround mode by changing fields but you can’t change to stereo mode.

Also, particularly with the iOS app, if you change the EQ or the preset, then back out of that option screen back into the main Yarra home menu then the EQ settings and content preset often won’t stick.

In summary, unless you’ve spent a lot of time getting used to the idiosyncratic errors the UI and apps are susceptibile to, it’s quite easy to think you’re testing one configuration of modes/settings (EQ, content preset, HRTF preset, stereo vs surround mode) only to be in actual fact testing another because the last adjustment you made reverted everything to a different configuration. Only if you’ve been testing and using it for a while do you start to learn and instinctively know when and where it fails to stick and how to get round it so that you are testing the settings / modes that you think you are testing. Of course, none of that should be necessary and it all goes to show how much more polish is required to bring the Yarra up to speed. But at least for now they still appear to be working on it.

If you want to bail now though, I shouldn’t think you’d have that much difficulty finding a buyer on the classifieds here.


----------



## Dixter

anyone besides comhear plug your yarra into the Smyth A8 yet... I bet it changes how the yarra sounds by quite a bit...


----------



## mikemg (Aug 3, 2019)

I have just found these published Comhear settings won't have time try for few days
Would be interesting to get feedback from anyone trying them
Could someone pass these settings to the Kickstarter and Indiegogo sites so we get as much feedback on whether this makes a significant difference to the sound
Has anyone tried the headphone input as tried with Sennheiser HD600 and Denon AHD 2000 it won't drive either to acceptable sound levels


----------



## SierraMadre

mikemg said:


> I have just found these published Comhear settings won't have time try for few days
> Would be interesting to get feedback from anyone trying them
> Could someone pass these settings to the Kickstarter and Indiegogo sites so we get as much feedback on whether this makes a significant difference to the sound
> Has anyone tried the headphone input as tried with Sennheiser HD600 and Denon AHD 2000 it won't drive either to acceptable sound levels


Is there any indication that those settings are indeed recommended by Comhear, though? I’d have thought there would be some description for intended usage scenarios otherwise. . .

The headphone amp is indeed weak. I had to max out the volume to get an acceptable experience on AKG K7XX.


----------



## Dixter

I think those pics of the App are just showing examples of the App itself....   here is the source on the Google Store

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.comhear.yarra.qa


----------



## Dixter

I do wonder on the first example of the App where it has 3 listeners and the two on the left and right are at 90 degrees....   wonder if that would cause the stage to expand with that setting...


----------



## Erik Garci

Dixter said:


> anyone besides comhear plug your yarra into the Smyth A8 yet... I bet it changes how the yarra sounds by quite a bit...


It turns out that the Yarra lacks a crosstalk-free mode, so I have not bothered to try my Yarra with my A8. The Yarra has just two modes, Surround and Stereo, and both have crosstalk. I updated the firmware today, and it still lacks a crosstalk-free mode. I hope that Comhear will add a crosstalk-free mode as originally advertised.


----------



## Dixter

thanks for the reply....   I was asking for two reasons...    I noticed when comhear was demonstrating the yarra they used the A8 feeding it... I have both a yarra and A8 in bound next week...  I am assuming Mark was using the
AIX setup on the A8 for the demo...  would be nice to find out a good setup from the A8 into the yarra...


----------



## Erik Garci (Aug 3, 2019)

Dixter said:


> thanks for the reply....   I was asking for two reasons...    I noticed when comhear was demonstrating the yarra they used the A8 feeding it... I have both a yarra and A8 in bound next week...  I am assuming Mark was using the
> AIX setup on the A8 for the demo...  would be nice to find out a good setup from the A8 into the yarra...


When Comhear was demonstrating the Yarra with the A8, I think that it was a prototype version that had a crosstalk-free mode, which would be appropriate for the A8 output (or any other signal that is already binaural). The current version does not have a crosstalk-free mode, thus it would sound almost as bad as if the A8 output was fed to a regular stereo pair of speakers. In other words, there is no good setup from the A8 into the Yarra at this time.


----------



## sander99

Erik Garci said:


> It turns out that the Yarra lacks a crosstalk-free mode


That is a real bummer. That was what it is was all about.
But it explains the strange first impressions a few pages back that seemed totally unlogical, like turning to surround mode would give better results with binaural recordings? Yeah, I assume like getting 3% instead of 1% of what it would be in cross talk free stereo mode.


Erik Garci said:


> In other words, there is no good setup from the A8 into the Yarra at this time.


Indeed.


Erik Garci said:


> I hope that Comhear will add a crosstalk-free mode as originally advertised.


Yeah, let's hope so.


----------



## sahmen (Aug 5, 2019)

One of my Yarra 3dx packages arrived last Friday (3 days ahead of schedule), and I am expecting the second one today. Sadly, I have not even been able to work up enough enthusiasm to open the one that arrived last Friday, because of the general misgivings I have read in the early "first impressions" reports on this site... It is almost as if the Yarra 3DX is a bomb, out of the gate, which makes me wonder what to make of all the excitement around the pre-release prototypes that were demoed at shows, and other internet sites, and inspired me to order two of them...

It is of course good that Comhear are willing to support the product with firmware updates, and I am hoping those will help to elevate the quality of the unit's performance, bringing it back to more decent and acceptable standards, or at least, the standard of the prototype editions that used to thrill "test-drivers" at audio shows.

By the way, what is the best way to contact Yarra customer service in case one needs technical assistance, or some troubleshooting advice? I am hoping their customer service and technical support departments would be at least responsive and helpful, as we try to figure out what the Yarra can really do.


----------



## L8MDL

From the support page. They have been very responsive to my inquiries.:

*GET HELP*
*If you have a question or need help with your Yarra 3DX please send an email to
Comhear Customer Support at CSR@COMHEAR.COM*
Please provide your Name, Serial Number for your Unit, and your email address.

Describe the issue or question that you have and we will follow up asap!


----------



## sahmen

L8MDL said:


> From the support page. They have been very responsive to my inquiries.:
> 
> *GET HELP*
> *If you have a question or need help with your Yarra 3DX please send an email to
> ...


Thanks.


----------



## SierraMadre

sander99 said:


> But it explains the strange first impressions a few pages back that seemed totally unlogical, like turning to surround mode would give better results with binaural recordings? Yeah, I assume like getting 3% instead of 1% of what it would be in cross talk free stereo mode.



As stated earlier in the thread, the native binaural and pre-binauralised content I tested, the directional cues were by and large accurate and impressive/immersive, if and only if the Yarra applied its own HRTF processing by engaging the surround mode. 

The difference in that particular context between the Yarra (in its present state) in stereo mode vs Surround mode was far greater than “3%” vs “1%”. 
Nevertheless, as also previously stated, engaging surround mode in this context also wrecked the fidelity / quality of the binaural audio so I don’t think that particular use case is worth it at present


----------



## sander99

@SierraMadre : by the way, I didn't mean anything negative about you with my statement, it's just that the cross talk free stereo mode is what I expect to work far better and I didn't know that the Yarra in its current state doesn't have that mode, but apparently a stereo mode that does something different.


----------



## SierraMadre

sander99 said:


> @SierraMadre : by the way, I didn't mean anything negative about you with my statement, it's just that the cross talk free stereo mode is what I expect to work far better and I didn't know that the Yarra in its current state doesn't have that mode, but apparently a stereo mode that does something different.



No worries, dude, I actually inadvertently omitted the concluding paragraph of my response to you when structuring it with copy and paste. What I meant to say was that even without cross talk elimination, given that at least cues/positioning are correct when applying double HRTF, perhaps Comhear could still improve the audio quality of binaural content reproduced in the Yarra’s surround mode. After all, provided the cues are correctly positioned (which they seem to be) and provided the audio quality is good, then as long as it works satisfactorily in those respects, how the results were achieved is less important.

In any case, you got me thinking about the situation again and I realised there was one scenario / config for testing that hadn’t occurred to me. I will test and elaborate later. It’s unrelated to cross talk and still involves double HRTF but if my gut feeling is correct then I think there may well be one limited, but at least decent, way of using the Yarra to reproduce native binaural content without compromising audio quality too much. . . .


----------



## Erik Garci

sander99 said:


> Yeah, I assume like getting 3% instead of 1% of what it would be in cross talk free stereo mode.


Stereo mode sounds like a pair of speakers spaced 1 foot apart, regardless of my listening position.

Surround mode sounds likes a pair of speakers spaced 8 feet apart, when my ears are 4 feet away for Near, or 6 feet away for Far.


----------



## sander99

I have a crazy idea! For the lucky ones who have 2 yarra's: put the two yarra's in front of you, side by side, or maybe even on top of each other is possible. Let's call them yarra 1 and 2.
Use the RCA/cinch stereo inputs, and stereo mode.
Connect nothing to the left RCA input of yarra 1.
Connect the left RCA output of your source to the right RCA input of yarra 1.
Connect the right RCA output of your source to the left RCA input of yarra 2.
Connect nothing to the right RCA input of yarra 2.
Aim the beams of yarra 1 in such a way that the beam for the right ear goes to your left ear and the beam for the left ear to somewhere on your left where you hopefully won't hear it (or only very soft).
Aim the beams of yarra 2 in such a way that the beam for the left ear goes to your right ear and the beam for the right ear to somewhere on your right where you hopefully won't hear it (or only very soft).

Now your left ear will hear the left source channel played over the yarra 1 right beam to your left ear (including crosstalk from the yarra 1 left virtual speaker, which is silence since there is no signal on yarra 1 left input).
Now your right ear will hear the right source channel played over the yarra 2 left beam to your right ear (including crosstalk from the yarra 2 right virtual speaker, which is silence since there is no signal on yarra 2 right input).
Effectively you now hear a cross talk free rendering of your source. (But there may be some filtering effect).


----------



## Erik Garci

sander99 said:


> I have a crazy idea!


I don't think that it would help. Both ears hear each channel too much. This is easy to demonstrate by listening to just one channel on one Yarra.


----------



## SierraMadre

sander99 said:


> I have a crazy idea! For the lucky ones who have 2 yarra's: put the two yarra's in front of you, side by side, or maybe even on top of each other is possible. Let's call them yarra 1 and 2.
> Use the RCA/cinch stereo inputs, and stereo mode.
> Connect nothing to the left RCA input of yarra 1.
> Connect the left RCA output of your source to the right RCA input of yarra 1.
> ...


I am inclined to agree with Erik. Stacking them on top of each other would definitely not work as the output from the respective units would still bleed together in effect even if the beams didn’t directly overlap. Side by side would be better at left/right separating the beams  but even then, for the right ear not to hear anything at all of the beam meant for the left ear, the left ear’s beam would need to be drowned out by the right ear’s beam. 

The Yarra promo material explaining the beam forming tech starts off with “avoiding cross talk” but later continues with the more toned down “greatly diminishing crosstalk” so I am not sure if there ever was a truly “crosstalk free prototype”. Given the position of the sound bar (away from you in front) I’d imagine there would always be a degree of crosstalk in practice at the environmental level with the issue being taming or masking it rather than truly eliminating it.


----------



## SierraMadre (Aug 6, 2019)

Binaural Content Audio Quality Update

Recap on previous impressions:

Yarra requires surround mode to be engaged (i.e. a second dose of HRTF/ binauralisation to be be applied by the Yarra) in order to accurately render directional audio / positional cues from native binaural content or content that has been pre-binauralised using another device/VSS solution (e.g. Dolby Atmos for Headphone, Creative SBX, Sennheiser GSX, Dolby Virtual X etc.).

However, doing this compromises audio quality, making presentation too bright, forward, thin and metallic, upper mids and highs in particular.


Updated impressions - Binaural Content in Dolby Digital *2.0* sounds decent in Yarra’s surround mode.

My previous impressions were gleaned from testing binaural content fed to the Yarra in 2ch stereo PCM only. It occurred to me to try the same content but rather than fed to the Yarra as stereo PCM, fed to the Yarra as Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo instead. So I set the Xbox to output bitstreamed Dolby Digital and tried a variety of binaural demos on the net (virtual barber shop, Dolby channel’s Atmos demos etc.).

Results were actually decent this time and much better than the PCM scenario mentioned above. Engaging Yarra surround mode when fed with stereo Dolby Digital, audio quality was not overly compromised as with the previous PCM scenario. By comparison, audio was warmer, more substantial and non-fatiguing. Positional cues were correctly placed although not quite as pronounced or precise as previous binaural PCM scenario. Irrespective, the trade-off was more than acceptable to me. I’ll take good directional cues *AND* better audio quality instead of great directional cues + poor audio quality any day.

Drawbacks

The source device must be able to transcode the binaural stereo source content into Dolby Digital format.

NB: Setting the Yarra to stereo mode in this Dolby Digital scenario is still a no-go for binaural content and differs little from just pumping content binauralised for headphones into conventional speakers, directional cues are off. In Yarra’s stereo mode, Virtual barber shop sounds like somebody else’s hair is being cut in front of you, engaging the Yarra’s surround mode is still required (whether feeding the Yarra Dolby Digital stereo or PCM stereo) in order to ensure that it sounds like one’s *own* hair is being cut.


----------



## L8MDL

sander99 said:


> I have a crazy idea! For the lucky ones who have 2 yarra's: put the two yarra's in front of you, side by side, or maybe even on top of each other is possible. Let's call them yarra 1 and 2.
> Use the RCA/cinch stereo inputs, and stereo mode.
> Connect nothing to the left RCA input of yarra 1.
> Connect the left RCA output of your source to the right RCA input of yarra 1.
> ...



Hard to do since the Yarra has NO RCA inputs or outputs except for the Subwoofer output.


----------



## sander99

Erik Garci said:


> I don't think that it would help. Both ears hear each channel too much. This is easy to demonstrate by listening to just one channel on one Yarra.





SierraMadre said:


> I’d imagine there would always be a degree of crosstalk in practice at the environmental level with the issue being taming or masking it rather than truly eliminating it.


That I fully understand, that's why I added the "(or only very soft)".

Anyway, it was just an idea (it was 5.29 AM here when I posted it, I had better gone to sleep a bit earlier!).



L8MDL said:


> Hard to do since the Yarra has NO RCA inputs or outputs except for the Subwoofer output.


Ah, I didn't check that. Does it have a stereo 3.5 mm jack for analog in? In that case two cables from 2 x RCA to 3.5 mm jack could have been used (with a source that has RCA outputs).


----------



## SierraMadre

sander99 said:


> That I fully understand, that's why I added the "(or only very soft)".
> 
> Anyway, it was just an idea (it was 5.29 AM here when I posted it, I had better gone to sleep a bit earlier!).
> 
> Ah, I didn't check that. Does it have a stereo 3.5 mm jack for analog in? In that case two cables from 2 x RCA to 3.5 mm jack could have been used (with a source that has RCA outputs).


There is a standard 3.5 aux input so yeah, it would be doable with a splitter cable and would be an interesting experiment, for sure!

I’m not sure it would render stereo mode sufficient and surround mode unnecessary for proper rendering of binaural content though. While crosstalk reduction is obviously beneficial and elimination would be ideal, the more I think about it, the more confused I get as to how the Yarra could be expected to preserve the proper overall position of the binaural envelopment of the listener’s head  *without* engaging at least some form of further HRTF processing. 

I mean, I could understand better if we were discussing binaural content originally recorded / mixed *specifically* for output via stereo speakers (as opposed to headphones), because then the differences in distance and angle from the listeners’s ears (vs. headphones clamped to the sides of one’s head) would have at least been given some consideration in the original binauralisation process.  But discussion of the topic until now has centered around  Yarra’s handling of binaural content that was originally binauralised for headphones e.g. Smyth Realiser, various binaural demo content for headphones etc. (. . .unless the Realiser specifically has an output mode specifically optimized for use with actually physical speakers?).


----------



## SierraMadre

*New Firmware Update Available
*
1.2.18.366. Haven’t tried yet. No release notes / change list but apparently auto-off issues purport to be fixed. Not sure whether that refers to the main unit or the sub.

Thanks to user gactm for the heads up on other forums.


----------



## sander99

SierraMadre said:


> While crosstalk reduction is obviously beneficial and elimination would be ideal, the more I think about it, the more confused I get as to how the Yarra could be expected to preserve the proper overall position of the binaural envelopment of the listener’s head *without* engaging at least some form of further HRTF processing.
> 
> I mean, I could understand better if we were discussing binaural content originally recorded / mixed *specifically* for output via stereo speakers (as opposed to headphones), because then the differences in distance and angle from the listeners’s ears (vs. headphones clamped to the sides of one’s head) would have at least been given some consideration in the original binauralisation process. But discussion of the topic until now has centered around Yarra’s handling of binaural content that was originally binauralised for headphones e.g. Smyth Realiser, various binaural demo content for headphones etc. (. . .unless the Realiser specifically has an output mode specifically optimized for use with actually physical speakers?).



This has been discussed in the Realiser A16 thread. Here are a few relevant posts:


462429 said:


> S. Smyth once wrote:
> "... virtual loudspeakers will not sound good when played over real loudspeakers because your loudspeakers create a second convolution. The effect of two convolutions is to make the audio sound like you are listening inside a cave."
> How to understand this statement in the context of the expected Realiser-Yarra cooperation?





sander99 said:


> There is one aspect of the use of the A16 with the Yarra that has not really been talked about here before (although for example Erik Garci mentioned something that is related to this: the fact that there already is in-front localisation because the Yarra is in front of you, and if you turn your head the Yarra is still in the same position so for sounds intended to come from the front head-tracking is not needed).
> Because the Yarra stands in front of you, a neutral sound coming from the Yarra wil reach your ear HRTF filtered by your own head and outer ear. But the Realiser will already have done this filtering as part of the simulation so it is done kind of double. But maybe that is not a problem: this extra filtering effect can be compensated for with the HPEQ! just do a HPEQ measurement with the Yarra looking straight forward, and select this HPEQ when using the Yarra with the A16. Only reflexions/reverberations that originate from the Yarra's sound will not be compensated for. If this would spoil things after all? Let's hope not too much.
> [Edit: Smyth maybe was talking about normal speakers without beamforming, then of course the cross talk would be "double" too]



Some additional clarification: If there is no  - or not too much - cross talk, and the HPEQ compensates for any frequency response changes on the path from yarra to ear then effectively it could sound similar as to using headphones. (Although admittedly it can hardly be expected to sound equally precise as with headphones. But I expect it could be good enough to correctly render the spatial cues.)
About doing a HPEQ with the yarra: I assume the Realiser will measure both headphone channels at once(?). So I am not sure there could not be problems caused by remaining cross talk (and reflexions/reverberations in the room). Of course the less reverberant the room is, the better the chance that all of this works.



Erik Garci said:


> Typical loudspeakers add crosstalk (each ear hears both channels). The Yarra is different in that it uses beamforming to prevent this crosstalk (left ear hears left channel only, and right ear hears right channel only, similar to headphones).





Erik Garci said:


> However, for sounds that are far from the front-center, head-tracking would still be needed (unless you don't care that they don't move properly), although it would have to be a new method, since the current method assumes that the drivers are mounted to your head. It is much better to disable head-tracking with the Yarra than to use the current method. I came up with some potential work-arounds that I plan to try.
> 
> I agree. You would measure HPEQ for the Yarra, preferably with you sitting in the same spot where you will be listening to the Yarra.
> 
> However, if you use someone else's PRIR, which might sound off to you anyway, I'm not sure whether your HPEQ would help or hurt. Maybe it would better to use that person's HPEQ that was measured for the Yarra.





Erik Garci said:


> They claim 30 dB of crosstalk reduction. That is almost as good as headphones. The beams are projected straight to your ears. Crosstalk has delays under 1 millisecond (no longer than the time to travel the distance between your ears). Room reflections usually have much higher delays and thus are interpreted differently.


----------



## mikemg

Received today from CSR posted here for all 
Hope it's useful 

Hello,

We just updated the firmware to 1.2.18.366 and it addresses the following issues. 

Improved Dolby locking so that signal is not lost permanently.

Added support for disabling auto power-off.

Tightened Energy Star poweroff requirements to prevent false positives.

Auto power-off now disabled by default.

Try updating and see if that fixes your problems.

Thank you!


--
Customer Service
csr@comhear.com


----------



## ajax1

Some YARRA 3DX owners using the HDMI cable may find this useful:

From the YARRA 3DX FAQ link at http://www.yarra3dx.com/faq-2/

*HOW TO ENABLE HDMI CEC STANDBY FUNCTION*
CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) will allow your TV remote control to power Yarra Off and On automatically, as well as control the volume and mute.  Press and hold soundbar “Volume Down” button, then press “Power” button until yellow LED indicators flash, then release both buttons. Refer to your Smart TV owner’s manual to enable CEC functionality. HDMI cabling is required for CEC control.


----------



## sahmen

Hello!  Any latest impressions from those who have received and tested their Yarra3DX packages? I need to hear from some owners who have given their units a test-run and are satisfied (or not) with the performance they have experienced.  I need to determine whether I can chalk up the initial impressions reporting subpar performances (thin sounding acoustics, anemic bass, non-responsive sub-woofer... etc. etc) to either initial set-up problems or to firmware update shortcomings.

In short : Is the Yarra3DX living up to the hype--or to even half the hype--of the initial promise as we were lead to expert from the demos of prototypes and user-reactions we saw on youtube, the kickstarter site, or in short this one:



or that one:



Personally, my two Yarra3DX packages have arrived, and I actually have both of them at home since last Monday.  Unfortunately, they're both still stacked in a corner unopened, partially because of my own laziness, and, perhaps, mostly because of lack of enthusiasm and excitement owing to the initial impressions of owners who sounded severely underwhelmed by their first experiences and impressions. (It has to be the second reason, because I do not remember having such little curiosity about anything I have ordered--especially about pieces of electronic equipment from a Kickstarter project I have backed, and waited for patiently)

I really want to believe that the Yarra3DX is capable of doing a lot more to impress when set up properly and has all applicable firmware properly updated.  If you think I am expecting too much from the Yarra3DX by wishing that it lives up to its own pre-release hype, please feel free to say so too.

At the very least, I am happy to have the two Yarra packages in my home, and that is a start.  A few short months ago, I had already given up hope of ever seeing them.

Please post your impressions, unless the relative silence is meant to convey an impression of overwhelming dissatisfaction with the unit...  I am still hoping this is not the case.


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## L8MDL (Aug 11, 2019)

I'm happy but underwhelmed with the Yarra. It will replace my Samsung 5 speaker surround system. Needs a lot of eq to get the bass and volume I desire but after a week or so of fiddling with it I'm satisfied. Very disappointed with the demo CD and the tablet version of the control panel is nothing like what was advertised. I don't get the "360 degrees" of surround that Dr. Waldrep bragged about but I'm guessing he had a source system way outta my league. I'm using a Sony UDP-X800. All in all - 7/10.


----------



## Dixter

I think it depends on your expectations....   I pulled mine out of the box and set it up on the kitchen counter to play around with it ...  I'll install it properly next week in my system...  I plan on using it in a 5.1 system and the Yarra is going to be the center channel speaker and I think its going to do a great job at that...  When you first turn it on it sounds thin (flat)... I used the iphone app and adjusted the EQ according to what the other users are using over at Kickstarter and it made it sound much much better...  would it work as the only sound in a normal sized room.???   not for me but I have some pretty large speakers in the media room....  I think for a small room... bedroom, it would be good....  and if you wanted a nice speaker setup for your desktop computer it would be kick butt for that...    the best way I can describe it once you get the EQ proper is ....  it does not do full surround...  its more like a 5.1 where you have a center speaker and the left and right speaker at the proper position and the left surround and right surround more like around 70 degrees...  so you have a super wide stage and everything in between the outer edged of the wide stage...  I can't wait to tune it in for a enhanced center speaker...     I had planned on setting it up the same as comhear demo using the A8 but thats not going to happen due to the cross talk and the issue with the A8 is that it uses an older HDMI so if you source it with an Apple TV4k the Apple TV4K will downscale the video to match the older HDMI of the A8 so thats not good...  so the A8 goes Audio only...  and that is what its for anyway....   

I'd say don't get disappointed before you play with the Yarra and you get a chance to tune it up, then I think you either find a place for it in your setup or not...   it has uses and should work well once you figure out how you want to use it... 
I should also mention I have not upgraded the firmware yet.... so it should get even better yet...   hope this helps you out...


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## valleynomad (Aug 13, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> There is a standard 3.5 aux input so yeah, it would be doable with a splitter cable and would be an interesting experiment, for sure!
> 
> I’m not sure it would render stereo mode sufficient and surround mode unnecessary for proper rendering of binaural content though. While crosstalk reduction is obviously beneficial and elimination would be ideal, the more I think about it, the more confused I get as to how the Yarra could be expected to preserve the proper overall position of the binaural envelopment of the listener’s head  *without* engaging at least some form of further HRTF processing.
> 
> I mean, I could understand better if we were discussing binaural content originally recorded / mixed *specifically* for output via stereo speakers (as opposed to headphones), because then the differences in distance and angle from the listeners’s ears (vs. headphones clamped to the sides of one’s head) would have at least been given some consideration in the original binauralisation process.  But discussion of the topic until now has centered around  Yarra’s handling of binaural content that was originally binauralised for headphones e.g. Smyth Realiser, various binaural demo content for headphones etc. (. . .unless the Realiser specifically has an output mode specifically optimized for use with actually physical speakers?).



Your confusion is absolutely valid. In fact IMHO it is where Yarra's flaw lies. It seems that they assume the processed sound waves will be beamed into listener's ear canals directly as if they come from two headphone speakers without much effect of pinnae....


----------



## ajax1

I have been using my YARRA 3DX with almost no problems for over two weeks. Yesterday, the sound would cut out for fractions of a second several times per minute. I had made no recent changes to any settings. I tried a number of things that did not work. A full re-install of the firmware fixed the problem.


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## SierraMadre (Aug 19, 2019)

Has anybody else


sahmen said:


> Hello!  Any latest impressions from those who have received and tested their Yarra3DX packages? I need to hear from some owners who have given their units a test-run and are satisfied (or not) with the performance they have experienced.  I need to determine whether I can chalk up the initial impressions reporting subpar performances (thin sounding acoustics, anemic bass, non-responsive sub-woofer... etc. etc) to either initial set-up problems or to firmware update shortcomings.
> 
> In short : Is the Yarra3DX living up to the hype--or to even half the hype--of the initial promise as we were lead to expert from the demos of prototypes and user-reactions we saw on youtube, the kickstarter site, or in short this one:
> 
> ...



TLDR: when working as intended, with Dolby Digital, sounds pretty good and surround is remarkable for a front facing only device. But many teething issues remain, you may be hampered by the current requirement for Dolby Digital in order to sound good and the present unreliability of the device, the apps and the lack of initially  promised degree of control over sound field and beams.


- Audio quality is fairly impressive for its size and pretty decent overall when inputting Dolby Digital (but not spectacular).

- Surround effect is very good and enveloping if inputting a decent Dolby Digital Surround mix or a binaural stereo mix converted into Dolby Digital and with the Yarra’s surround mode applied. The YouTube review you posted showed he had Dolby Digital engaged for all content tested, including virtual barber shop (Dolby Digital processing blue light was always on plus he confirmed bitstream in comments). However sweet spot is very narrow. Move just a few inches to either side and the positioning falls apart. If you sit back and don’t move your head much, no problem. If you’re the type that likes to lounge, lean to the side and shift position a lot then it’ll be a hassle.

- Firmware is still causing problems with Dolby dropout for many.

- Reports of random and occasional audio glitching and artefacting whatever the input, but particularly with HDMI and USB. I have experienced this too.p to some degree.

- Multichannel PCM is still non-existent or at best broken (can’t get it via PC, can get some truncated, gappy nonsense via Xbox). Stereo PCM through USB is terrible for me and some other users. Have tried different cables and different PCs, always distorts in the same way

- Sub is ok for bedroom / small office (aided by corner placement) but lacks the juice for larger, more expansive environments such as medium sized living rooms or bigger. Some have reported good results replacing it with a more powerful unit. Whatever use case, many commenters have found the sub connection to be prone to dropping out. Audio quality requires the sub, sound bar is terrible without it.

- Control Apps are hit and miss, the mobile apps have features the PC app does not and vice versa. Problems getting certain settings (EQ) to stick, particularly with the IOS app. Degree of control offered is a fraction of those featured in the  development promo graphics for the app.

- No explanatory documentation as to the differing characteristics of the 9 HRTF models which are integral to the  Dolby processing. You have to choose one (default is no.1), no indication as to how they differ in terms of  characteristics or intended nuances of effect, just “try them out and see which sounds better”.


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## sahmen (Aug 19, 2019)

@SierraMadre : Thanks for that thorough assessment.  Extremely informative and helpful.  I really hope they continue to release firmware updates to improve performance on all fronts.  My two units are still stacked in the same corner unopened.  It seems to me that a whole week has gone by without me remembering that they were there.  I have been busy and distracted with work of course, but that should not have been enough to make me forget about the Yarra... Boxes.  Before they arrived, I was planning to reserve one for office use, but from the account you have given, it seems to me that I would be better off resurrecting one of my two long-retired ipod/pc speaker systems for that.  They're standard speakers, without any pretentious binauralized audio gimmicks, but I think either one of them would do a far better, and more consistently reliable job than Yarra in its present state, I'm afraid.  I'm referring to my humble Jamo i300 and logitech z5500 systems.




Spoiler: image















Spoiler: Image logitech z5500


----------



## mikemg

Received reply from CSR today Re: Subwoofer not always engaging out of standby 

We have a fix coming. Watch for a firmware update next week that addresses this issue.

Meanwhile 

Make sure your source devices are set to provide Dolby Digital or PCM output.

Turn off any Bass management features your devices may have.

Keep the app and firmware up to date. We are releasing changes every 4-7 days.

If the app or remote are not adjusting sound correctly, please try using the buttons on the left and right side of the speaker to make adjustments.


----------



## Camano

mikemg said:


> Received reply from CSR today Re: Subwoofer not always engaging out of standby
> We have a fix coming. Watch for a firmware update next week that addresses this issue.



New firmware available, version 1.2.20.371. It appears to be keeping the subwoofer awake by sending a low frequency pulse about 2 seconds long to the subwoofer every 10 minutes or so. Crude but effective. I'm using a 12" sub and can hear this pulse. With the default sub the pulse may be so low in frequency that it's not heard.

I did a full firmware update and it took about 15 minutes - it seemed to stall out on phase 3 but eventually finished.


----------



## Dixter

Camano said:


> New firmware available, version 1.2.20.371. It appears to be keeping the subwoofer awake by sending a low frequency pulse about 2 seconds long to the subwoofer every 10 minutes or so. Crude but effective. I'm using a 12" sub and can hear this pulse. With the default sub the pulse may be so low in frequency that it's not heard.
> 
> I did a full firmware update and it took about 15 minutes - it seemed to stall out on phase 3 but eventually finished.




Thanks for the notice...


----------



## SierraMadre

User on another forum said Comhear CS have advised that multichannel PCM is inbound in the next few weeks.


----------



## GeorgeA

The long awaited firmware update has been rolled out. There is a post about the new firmware version 1.2.23.374 made by Comhear at kickstarter site. Is the multichannel pcm via hdmi issue resolved? Anybody who can check the new firmware, please write back here.


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## Andre le

Hi folks. I’m new here. My Yarra has been updated to the latest FW 1.2.23.374 released 2 weeks ago. I have an Oppo UDP-203 connected via HDMI. The Yarra plays Dolby 5.1 audio from Bluray/dvd in Surround mode but does not reproduce 5.1 PCM from SACD multi-channel discs or Bluray/dvd DTS 5.1. The “best” it will do is to use the internal Surround algorithm to imitate 5.1. This results in an unacceptable reproduction of the original 5.1 mix. I have tested this thoroughly. Hoping the FW fix for PCM 5.1 is not too far away. Cheers.


----------



## Andre le

Hi all. Just updated the FW to 1.2.24.375. I repeated the same tests as with previous FW. Oppo audio output set to PCM. Dolby 5.1 works in Surround mode but SACD & DTS 5.1 music while clearly audible in Surround mode has an obviously strange mix so the PCM issue has not been resolved yet. ☹️


----------



## GeorgeA

I’ve seen your posts on the other forum and my comment is as follows:
If you set Oppo audio output to PCM, then you couldn’t get Dolby 5.1. Most probably, your test with Dolby 5.1 was carried out by setting Oppo audio output to bitstream and for the following tests with SACD & DTS 5.1 music, you changed the output to PCM. Is my assumption correct/incorrect?


----------



## Andre le

GeorgeA said:


> I’ve seen your posts on the other forum and my comment is as follows:
> If you set Oppo audio output to PCM, then you couldn’t get Dolby 5.1. Most probably, your test with Dolby 5.1 was carried out by setting Oppo audio output to bitstream and for the following tests with SACD & DTS 5.1 music, you changed the output to PCM. Is my assumption correct/incorrect?



Hi George
The HDMI audio output setting is Bitstream in all scenarios: 
1. definitely reproduces Dolby 5.1 audio from Bluray/dvd in Surround mode
2. does not reproduce 5.1 audio from SACD multichannel discs when the Oppo SACD output is set to PCM
3. does not reproduce 5.1 audio from Bluray/dvd DTS 5.1


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## GeorgeA

Thanks. I'll try to reproduce your tests.


----------



## SierraMadre

DTS decoding was never a feature. The recent firmware log mentioning “center channel fix for PCM and DTS” is the first time DTS was ever mentioned by Comhear and was almost certainly in error.


----------



## Andre le

Hi SierraMadre
In the absence of FW info from the Comhear tech person(s), how do u know DTS decoding wasn’t going to be a feature?
Also, how can u be sure PCM 5.1 was also not going to be a feature?
Cheers


----------



## SierraMadre

Andre le said:


> Hi SierraMadre
> In the absence of FW info from the Comhear tech person(s), how do u know DTS decoding wasn’t going to be a feature?
> Also, how can u be sure PCM 5.1 was also not going to be a feature?
> Cheers


Because DTS was never promised in backer correspondence or listed as supported on the Yarra website or crowd funding sites. Those that have asked about it in the past have been told that DTS is not supported and that there were no plans for it at present. Also, Mark Waldrep, campaign creator and one of the development consultants wrote in this very thread that Dolby Digital and stereo PCM was all it could do.

As for mulitichannel PCM, I never said it was “not going to be a feature”. However Dr, Waldrep also explicitly stated that multichannel PCM was not supported either. A few months later Comhear listed multichannel PCM as supported In the run up to shipping to backers but nobody has reported it working properly while plenty have reported it as not working.


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## GeorgeA (Oct 7, 2019)

*@*Andre le
I should’ve not written that I would try to reproduce your tests in my post #247. Actually, I didn’t know what were your files for testing. However, I carried out some tests as I did previously. 

I’m using my Yarra 3DX connected to a laptop via USB cable mainly for listening to binaural music. This way the device works flawlessly. It’s out of discussion multichannel signals, PCM or other formats, under this configuration.

Then, I connected the laptop to Yarra 3DX via a HDMI cable and I played the same binaural files. The playback was interrupted several times, probably there were handshake issues. I also played the included AIX Records® demo DVD. The eighths led (from left to right) lighted blue meaning that Dolby Digital signal was decoded. The surround sound effect was not so impressive as for the binaural files. I also sent some multichannel uncompressed digital audio files to Yarra. They were played back, but I couldn’t figure out whether the sound was stereo or surround. There were no interruptions when both the Dolby Digital and uncompressed digital files were rendered.

To conclude, I’d say that HDMI connection is still buggy and I’m going to stick to listening to binaural music by using my Yarra 3DX via the USB cable.


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## Andre le

GeorgeA said:


> *@*Andre le
> I should’ve not written that I would try to reproduce your tests in my post #247. Actually, I didn’t know what were your files for testing. However, I carried out some tests as I did previously.
> 
> I’m using my Yarra 3DX connected to a laptop via USB cable mainly for listening to binaural music. This way the device works flawlessly. It’s out of discussion multichannel signals, PCM or other formats, under this configuration.
> ...



Gday GeorgeA 

Confirming that after running the latest FW, Dolby 5.1 audio via HDMI works fine from Blu-ray or dvd. 
5.1 PCM or DTS unfortunately does not because this was not a feature that was promised by the developers, as SierraMadre posted. This means I can’t enjoy 5.1 audio from my SACD multi-channel discs or DTS only music. Bummer!! 

Cheers, André


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## SierraMadre

Andre le said:


> Gday GeorgeA
> 
> Confirming that after running the latest FW, Dolby 5.1 audio via HDMI works fine from Blu-ray or dvd.
> 5.1 PCM or DTS unfortunately does not because this was not a feature that was promised by the developers, as SierraMadre posted. This means I can’t enjoy 5.1 audio from my SACD multi-channel discs or DTS only music. Bummer!!
> ...


If you have a device that can transcode into Dolby digital, I.e. take DTS or another format and convert it into Dolby for bitstreaming out to the Yarra, then you can enjoy the content in question. Xbox One X definitely offers this capability (I have one and have used it to convert DTS, multichannel PCM and binaural PCM into Dolby digital for the Yarra), presumably the original One and One S too. PS4 not sure but possibly.


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## GeorgeA

SierraMadre said:


> ......have used it to convert DTS, multichannel PCM and binaural PCM into Dolby digital..........


What might be the reason for converting binaural PCM into Dolby digital, as long as Yarra 3DX is capable of rendering binaural audio signals?


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## SierraMadre (Oct 9, 2019)

GeorgeA said:


> What might be the reason for converting binaural PCM into Dolby digital, as long as Yarra 3DX is capable of rendering binaural audio signals?



Yarra requires its surround mode to be engaged (i.e. a second dose of HRTF/ binauralisation to be be applied by the Yarra) in order to accurately render directional audio / positional cues from native binaural content or content that has been pre-binauralised using another device/VSS solution (e.g. Dolby Atmos for Headphone, Creative SBX, Sennheiser GSX, DTS Virtual X etc.). However, doing this in my experience significantly compromises audio quality, making presentation too bright, forward, thin and metallic, upper mids and highs in particular.

It occurred to me to try the same selection of binaural content again but rather than in PCM form, fed to the Yarra as Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo instead. So I set the Xbox to output bitstreamed Dolby Digital and tried a variety of binaural demos on the net (virtual barber shop, Dolby channel’s Atmos demos etc.) and a bunch of games using Dolby Atmos for headphone.

Results were actually decent this time and much better than the PCM scenario mentioned above. Engaging Yarra surround mode when fed with binaural content transcoded into stereo Dolby Digital, audio quality was not overly compromised as with the previous PCM scenario. By comparison, audio was warmer, richer, more substantial and most important to, non-fatiguing. Positional cues were correctly placed although not quite as pronounced or precise as previous binaural PCM scenario. Irrespective, the trade-off was more than acceptable to me. I’ll take good directional cues *AND* better audio quality instead of great directional cues + poor audio quality any day.

NB: Setting the Yarra to stereo mode and not engaging its HRTF processing in this Dolby Digital scenario is still a no-go for binaural content and differs little from just pumping content binauralised for headphones into conventional speakers in that directional cues are off. In Yarra’s stereo mode, Virtual barber shop sounds like somebody else’s hair is being cut in front of you, engaging the Yarra’s surround mode is still required (whether feeding the Yarra Dolby Digital stereo or PCM stereo) in order to ensure that it sounds like one’s *own* hair is being cut.


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## GeorgeA

According to your findings, double binauralization compromises audio quality, while conversion from one format to another one is a lossless process, the audio fidelity is unchanged.


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## SierraMadre

GeorgeA said:


> According to your findings, double binauralization compromises audio quality, while conversion from one format to another one is a lossless process, the audio fidelity is unchanged.


Not exactly. At the end of the day, binaural-whatever’s end format is still 2 channel stereo. The Xbox is not converting the 2 channel binaural PCM in to Dolby Digital 5.1, it’s converting it into Dolby Digital stereo but it’s still binaural just like the original binaural stereo PCM was. Double binauralisation occurs in both scenarios described once the Yarra’s surround mode is engaged but audio quality is only compromised in one.

I’m simply saying that the Yarra’s binaural processing, its surround mode, doesn’t appear to significantly compromise audio quality (if at all) when applied to Dolby’d binaural input rather than original PCM.  The difference is simply whether the Yarra’s surround processing is applied to binaural PCM or instead binaural PCM that has been converted to Dolby digital for input to the Yarra.


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## GeorgeA

I’ve recently purchased the "Alessandro Quarta plays Astor Piazzolla" blu-ray audio disc. Owing to mShuttle technology, I could download 96 kHz/24bit flac and binaural audio files. By playing these files through my Yarra in surround mode, I couldn’t notice any significant difference with respect to audio quality between the flac and binaural files.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 14, 2019)

GeorgeA said:


> I’ve recently purchased the "Alessandro Quarta plays Astor Piazzolla" blu-ray audio disc. Owing to mShuttle technology, I could download 96 kHz/24bit flac and binaural audio files. By playing these files through my Yarra in surround mode, I couldn’t notice any significant difference with respect to audio quality between the flac and binaural files.


Ok but I wasn’t saying that flac vs binaural PCM or whatever made a difference to me. I was saying that the Yarra’s surround mode, when applied to binaural 2 channel PCM, ruined the audio quality for me and that that didn’t happen when applying he Yarra’s surround mode to that same binaural 2 channel PCM if it had been transcoded into Dolby digital stereo beforehand. It’s no surprise that the Yarra’s 9 HRTF models are only selectable when fed with Dolby digital.

Also, I could be wrong about this but I don’t think your Yarra is playing raw flac files per se, I don’t think it has the capability to decode them.  It will instead either be flac converted into PCM by your PC / Mac, flac converted into AptX by your DAP or PC if using Bluetooth or, if feeding the Yarra via 3.5mm line-in then just plain analogue stereo.


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## GeorgeA (Oct 14, 2019)

I haven’t written my previous post for the sake of contradicting your findings. As I haven’t got any xbox console or other device that can transcode pcm binaural format into into Dolby digital, I had to reconsider my tests.

I’m aware that HRTF models are only selectable when fed with Dolby digital. However, what may happen when Yarra is fed via usb port and the sounds were felt somewhere around my ears? This sensation was for both flac and binaural files. Of course, flac and binaural files were played by using a software player inside my laptop. I think that the binauralizer works based on some generic HRTF model. When Dolby digital signal is present, one can chose among several HRTFs.

Moreover, based on what I’ve read at Mark Waldrep's blog, I fed my Yarra via 3.5mm line-in thinking that that way the binauralizer was by-passed. The result was that I could also hear the sounds somewhere around my ears similar to Yarra fed via usb port. If the binauralizer had been by-passed, the sounds derived from flac and binaural files would’ve been different. The immersive effect should’ve been manifest only for the binaural files. Is my judgement reasonable?

Anyhow, today I’ve written a message to the Comhear Customer Support asking them to explain the issue of double binauralization.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 14, 2019)

GeorgeA said:


> I haven’t written my previous post for the sake of contradicting your findings. As I haven’t got any xbox console or other device that can transcode pcm binaural format into into Dolby digital, I had to reconsider my tests.
> 
> I’m aware that HRTF models are only selectable when fed with Dolby digital. However, what may happen when Yarra is fed via usb port and the sounds were felt somewhere around my ears? This sensation was for both flac and binaural files. Of course, flac and binaural files were played by using a software player inside my laptop. I think that the binauralizer works based on some generic HRTF model. When Dolby digital signal is present, one can chose among several HRTFs.
> 
> ...


I didn’t say I couldn’t get 3D sound without Dolby, just that I couldn’t get pleasant 3D sound. 

 The way to bypass Yarra’s layer of binauralisation is simple (and it has nothing to do with inputs connections): don’t activate surround mode and keep it set to stereo.  Surround mode on the Yarra (whatever content it is applied to, PCM, Dolby Digital etc.) is a form of binauralisation. The Yarra cannot extrapolate binaurally recorded or binaurally mixed / pre-binauralised content with correct 3D positioning unless the surround mode is activated. You can test this by running the binaural virtual barber shop demo on YouTube. Compare positioning of cues in stereo vs surround mode. Cues will be correctly positioned for surround mode but will not be for stereo. Double binauralisation appears to have always been the intent. At the end of the day, we’re talking about a front firing driver array several feet in front of us. I’m not sure how/why anybody expected content binauralised for headphones strapped directly to one’s head to render accurately in full 3D on the Yarra in stereo mode without additional processing.


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## Erik Garci

SierraMadre said:


> I’m not sure how/why anybody expected content binauralised for headphones strapped directly to one’s head to render accurately in full 3D on the Yarra in stereo mode without additional processing.


It was claimed that the Yarra's beamforming would be equivalent to 30 dB of crosstalk cancellation, but when I use my SPL meter to measure the ILD, it only gets up to 10 dB in Surround mode. If it was 20 dB or more, it would work much better for binaural content.

As far as Stereo mode is concerned, I think it doesn't use beamforming at all, thus it provides no benefit for binaural content.


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## Stefanthebass

I think we have to sort out things. Regarding the 3D surround sound I see two different aspects:
1) multi channel encoding
2) sound delivery

1) multi channel encoding: we all know, the Yarra is capable to deliver 2 channels only. Stereo, binaural, transaural, it always describes a 2 channel signal that somehow includes 3d positioning information. So you could say that this is the native format of the Yarra. Everything else has to be converted to transaural 2.0 using the hrtf. This transformation is the first function of the Yarra. It can be separated from:
2) sound delivery: Yarra offers two modes: stereo and surround. In my understanding stereo is just that. Playing a 2 channel audio like any other speaker. No sound beams, no advanced processing. Surround is were the magic happens with two channels delivered right to your ears with high separation between the channels, with low crosstalk. This works quite good in my opinion.

So if binaural 2.0 recordings sound good for you, then 2) is ok. If 5.1 doesn't, then 1) is not good. If it is the implementation of the conversion or just the wrong hrtf, it can be both. 

So try stereo/binaural material using surround mode first, setup your equipment for that and of that sounds ok, then go on for step 2, which is the multichannel function. If stereo is good and multichannel not, maybe try a transcoder.

Ok, there is one more thing regarding the stereo. As they like to control crosstalk (Peter says something in the demo video) they perform a trick that I don't really like. They take a bit of the left channel signal (around 20%) and subtract it from the right and vice versa. They do this, to get a more clearly separated signal, but in fact it has a negative effect depending on your distance from the speaker. It leads to over emphasised side channels (instruments on the fast left and right are louder) and some reverb effects are boosted, too.


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## Erik Garci

Stefanthebass said:


> Ok, there is one more thing regarding the stereo. As they like to control crosstalk (Peter says something in the demo video) they perform a trick that I don't really like. They take a bit of the left channel signal (around 20%) and subtract it from the right and vice versa. They do this, to get a more clearly separated signal, but in fact it has a negative effect depending on your distance from the speaker. It leads to over emphasised side channels (instruments on the fast left and right are louder) and some reverb effects are boosted, too.


There are two ways to look at this effect. One way is that it emphasizes side audio. Another way is that it is diminishes middle audio, especially voices which tend to be in the middle. Either way, the result is the same, because middle and side are relative to each other.

I would prefer this effect to be configurable by the user, as opposed to being fixed at 20% or whatever. I have another speaker system that offers such a setting, which is called Voice, and it can kept at 0% (no effect) or incrementally adjusted all the way to one extreme or the other.


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## Stefanthebass (Oct 21, 2019)

Erik Garci said:


> I would prefer this effect to be configurable by the user, as opposed to being fixed at 20% or whatever.


That's exactly, what I wrote them at least two times. It would be great if some of you could also contact them!

You are absolutely right about losing the center channel when the sides are made louder! If you for example listen to "The Violence" from "Rise Against" it's hard to understand the vocals using the Yarra. Notheless it sounds great 

Maybe not so well known is the effect of reverb, reverb coming from digital reverb processors, not natural reverb:
in fact there are a lot of reverb processors used in music production, that are NOT mono compatible. Listen to "9 Million Bicycles" from Katie Melua. The vocals are produced using such an effect. Listen to that using the Yarra and compare the mix to "normal" loudspeakers. Much more reverb!

What do these reverb processor do? Well, they calculate a mono reverb signal and add it to the right and the left channel, but with inverted polarity (left=positive (1) and right=negative (-1)). If you mono the music the reverb is gone. With the Yarra the reverb gets much stronger! 
Here are some formulas to explain it:
Original mix, reverb: left: 1, right: -1
Mono: left = right = left+right, so: right = left = 1+-(1) = 0
Yarra: left = left-0.2*right = 1-0.2*(-1)= 1.2, right = -1.2

For a signal in the center (left=right=1):
Yarra: left = left-0.2*right = 1-0.2*(1)= 0.8, right = 0.8

So you end up with the side at 1.2 and the center at 0.8! That's almost 40% or 3.5dB more reverb!

As I wrote in some other forum, using the "Eqalizer APO" for Windows I am able to control the effect as the Equalizer offers the possibility to "Copy channels". I have tested some configurations and the ones that add between 15% and 20% of left into right and vice versa sound best.
If the Yarra gets these signals and it processes the channels the signal going to the speakers is almost the original left and right channel.
To my ears it sounds much better and more natural. But unfortunately it works only with my Windows PC and the USB connection.
Again, some formulas proving the effect, for example using 20% in APO:
APO EQ: left = left+0.2*right = 0.8, right = -0.8
Yarra: left = left-0.2*right, using the EQ signal: left = 0.8-0.2*(-0.8)= 0.96, right = -0.96, so approx. 1 and -1, the original signals!

I am sure that a bit of the effect used by Yarra is ok to improve the channel separation and to control the crosstalk. I also believe that the optimal amount depends of the listeners distance from the spreaker.
And at least for the computer speaker use case with a very short distance the currect amount is too high.

I am not sure at all, if that algorithm is used for stereo sources only. I also have not tested it on "far field" setups. If it is part of the beamforming (if I were the designer I would put it here), then it could explain the problem of the low volume center channel for multi channel.setups.
But anyway, I would also think that a tool to set the individual volumes of the channels for a .multi-channel configuration would also be helpful.


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## AppleheadMay

ajax1 said:


> I have been using my YARRA 3DX with almost no problems for over two weeks. Yesterday, the sound would cut out for fractions of a second several times per minute. I had made no recent changes to any settings. I tried a number of things that did not work. A full re-install of the firmware fixed the problem.



How does one do a full re-install of the firmware?
I have initiated a firmware update on a Mac and it has been running for over an hour now.
So I think it's safe to say it's stuck. Pull out the plug anyway?


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## ajax1

I used the Comhear Windows Yarra 3DX Control Panel for installation.
It offers a QUICK and a FULL install.

Looking at the screen you posted, I believe the Mac updates do a Full install.   The QUICK install is very fast.   The FULL install is about 12 minutes and is multi-step.

To do a full re-install, I just did the FULL install again.


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## AppleheadMay

ajax1 said:


> I used the Comhear Windows Yarra 3DX Control Panel for installation.
> It offers a QUICK and a FULL install.
> 
> Looking at the screen you posted, I believe the Mac updates do a Full install.   The QUICK install is very fast.   The FULL install is about 12 minutes and is multi-step.
> ...



Thanks! 
And thank Bill for Windows.
I just pulled it off the Mac anyway, hooked it up to my PC, got a FW version number of all -------, tried Quick Install, got an error.
Tried a full install and here it is, brand and shiny new!


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## SierraMadre

Stefanthebass said:


> Ok, there is one more thing regarding the stereo. As they like to control crosstalk (Peter says something in the demo video) they perform a trick that I don't really like. They take a bit of the left channel signal (around 20%) and subtract it from the right and vice versa. They do this, to get a more clearly separated signal, but in fact it has a negative effect depending on your distance from the speaker. It leads to over emphasised side channels (instruments on the fast left and right are louder) and some reverb effects are boosted, too.


That’s how pretty much any VSS I’ve tried works though. If you get some headphones and try a different VSS solution and then compare the sound from one cup only to the other only, it’ll almost certainly do the same thing you describe.


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## SierraMadre (Nov 30, 2019)

GeorgeA said:


> I haven’t written my previous post for the sake of contradicting your findings. As I haven’t got any xbox console or other device that can transcode pcm binaural format into into Dolby digital, I had to reconsider my tests.
> 
> I’m aware that HRTF models are only selectable when fed with Dolby digital. However, what may happen when Yarra is fed via usb port and the sounds were felt somewhere around my ears? This sensation was for both flac and binaural files. Of course, flac and binaural files were played by using a software player inside my laptop. I think that the binauralizer works based on some generic HRTF model. When Dolby digital signal is present, one can chose among several HRTFs.
> 
> ...


Hi.

Saw your recent posts on the Kickstarter page forum. Couldn't respond there as I'm not a KS backer rather Indiegogo.

Just a correction re Dolby Atmos for Headphone via PC / Xbox to Yarra. The connection from PC/Xbox to the Yarra in this context would not need to be done via 3.5mm headphone out. Indeed, that would be sub-optimal when optical or HDMI are available as connection methods and Atmos for Headphone can be applied to those connections for output to the Yarra.


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## GeorgeA (Dec 1, 2019)

Hi there,

I can understand your point to a certain extent.

That backer at the Kickstarter page was wondering about using an AV receiver in conjunction with Yarra 3DX to get Dolby Atmos immersive sound. I answered him that an AV receiver would processes the Dolby Atmos cues and the resulting analogue audio signal would be sent to speakers. Under this context, it is practically impossible to to capture the decoded signal in order to be conveyed to to Yarra.

Moreover, I think that it is important to take into consideration that Yarra 3DX is quite limited to process multichannel audio signals. Actually, it is provided only with a decoder for Dolby Digital (AC3).

I’m aware that the connection from PC/Xbox to Yarra 3DX via 3.5mm headphone out would not be the best one. For a setup consisting of an xbox/PC and Yarra 3DX, if you select for “Headset Audio - Using HDMI or optical audio headset”, this will send the surround-processed audio to Yarra 3DX. Now, my question: would Yarra 3DX be able to further process that audio signal coming from xbox one/PC?

My option for using the headphones out connector was based on by-passing the further multichannel audio process to be carried out by Yarra. I know that your thesis is that unless the audio signal is in Dolby Digital format, Yarra 3DX will render that audio signal with noticeable losses. Frankly writing, I couldn’t notice those losses.


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## SierraMadre (Dec 1, 2019)

> “I know that your thesis is that unless the audio signal is in Dolby Digital format, Yarra 3DX will render that audio signal with noticeable losses. Frankly writing, I couldn’t not notice those losses.”



If you disagree, that’s fine, but to clarify, my position on Dolby vs PCM audio quality as rendered by the Yarra pertains *only* to binaural content - whether it be natively binaural at the recording / mixing stage or later binauralised using a VSS algorithm such as Dolby Atmos for headphone, Creative SBX, DTS headphone X etc. - and *only* when engaging Yarra’s surround mode / HRTF processing which is what is required to correctly position binaural cues.

I dunno, perhaps PCM input mode rendering of binaural has been improved with patches since I last tried, I will revisit / retest over the holidays (Yarra is packed away at present) and post again if my findings differ from previous. . . but have you actually tested / tried this particular comparison for yourself? It would require you to compare 2 channel PCM binaural content in Yarra Surround mode vs that *same* content transcoded into Dolby digital 2.0 * before* engaging Yarra surround mode. Also, as I may have mentioned before, no PCM = no HRTF preset selection in the Yarra’s surround mode so that alone already puts it at a disadvantage



> “my question is would Yarra 3DX be able to further process that audio signal coming from Xbox / PC”



-  I have already confirmed that it can. If you have doubts, no problem, I can only ask again if you’ve actually tried the specific setup I describe?
Unless the Yarra’s ability to process Binaural / pre-binauralised content in the absolute sense is your point of contention, then why shouldn’t it work? Dolby Atmos for Headphone isn’t a standalone audio format per se. It’s just a VSS conversion algorithm applied to an actual format that downmixes it into binaural stereo PCM or Dolby Digital 2.0 depending on config. We’re not asking Yarra to natively decode and process a Dolby Atmos for home theater signal because obviously it can’t do that, in this case it’s the Xbox or PC that takes care of that part.
 To reiterate, What’s being fed to the Yarra in this particular scenario is still essentially just 2 channel stereo binauralised for headphones, either in PCM format or, if setup as I recommend, then downmixed or transcoded into Dolby Digital 2.0 first.



> “My option for using the headphones out connector was based on by-passing the further multichannel audio process to be carried out by Yarra.”



Why would you want to do that though? If it’s to avoid double HRTF, you’re out of luck because it’s necessary in this scenario. The Yarra’s special sauce is beam forming to render surround and 3D effects and  beam-forming only appears to happen when surround mode is engaged. As previously discovered by other users on here and other forums, in the Yarra’s stereo mode, the Yarra just acts like a regular driver array.
The Yarra’s surround mode is required to extrapolate / upmix and render that positional information correctly in this binaural feed scenario and irrespective of connection input, it is surround mode on/off that is the final determinant of  whether the Yarra’s surround processing is applied.

If you are absolutely intent on ”bypassing further processing” at all costs then you just keep the Yarra in stereo mode (but then you’ll lose the surround effect) and if you are intent on feeding it the binaural content in PCM form-only then why use the headphone out into the Yarra from the Xbox controller when you can just set the Xbox / PC to a linear PCM output to the Yarra over HDMI or optical?

 (- Not to mention, using the controller’s headphone jack would be double-amping and to avoid that you’d need a separate dac/amp or receiver with line-out in between)


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## GeorgeA

When I wrote that one option was to use the headphones out connector I had in mind what someone much more competent than I also did.

Have a look at the post #29, page 2, on this topic: “I demoed the YARRA 3DX at the LA Audio Show using my Smyth A8 as the binauralizer. The sound bar took the analog binaural output from the Symth box and delivered left and right discrete audio signals (minimal crosstalk) to listeners.”The author is Dr AIX aka Dr Mark Waldrep. Please note that Realiser A8 is provided with Phones Digital Out in digital optical S/P-DIF form.

I haven’t got a device capable of transcoding into Dolby Digital 2.0 firstly. I use a media player (M9702) as a source, which is connected to my Yarra 3DX via an HDMI cable.


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## SierraMadre (Dec 1, 2019)

GeorgeA said:


> When I wrote that one option was to use the headphones out connector I had in mind what someone much more competent than I also did.
> 
> Have a look at the post #29, page 2, on this topic: “I demoed the YARRA 3DX at the LA Audio Show using my Smyth A8 as the binauralizer. The sound bar took the analog binaural output from the Symth box and delivered left and right discrete audio signals (minimal crosstalk) to listeners.”The author is Dr AIX aka Dr Mark Waldrep. Please note that Realiser A8 is provided with Phones Digital Out in digital optical S/P-DIF form.
> 
> I haven’t got a device capable of transcoding into Dolby Digital 2.0 firstly. I use a media player (M9702) as a source, which is connected to my Yarra 3DX via an HDMI cable.


 You’re missing my point. Why use the terrible wireless dac/amp on the Xbox One controller or add in a further dac/amp between the Xbox and the Yarra in the chain when the Xbox can pass that *very same* binaural 2 channel signal directly to the Yarra over HDMI or optical either as PCM or Dolby Digital 2.0 given that the Yarra’s surround mode clearly depends on manual user activation?

As for why Dr. Waldrep didn’t use optical, could be any number of reasons. Did Dr, Waldrep have an optical cable to hand? Was optical input on the Yarra demo models working at the time? whatever the case, you appear to be inferring from his comment that having the Yarra act as amp and speakers only via 3.5 out from the Xbox controller might preserve some kind of essential key to binaural goodness that would otherwise be lost or degraded if the Yarra’s DAC were to receive the signal in digital form . . .?

If you read the rest of that thread, all dr. Waldrep’s comments, the responses and answers to them, you’ll see that nowhere does he categorically state (despite being asked) whether the surround effect of already binaural/binauralised content can be rendered without engaging the Yarra’s surround processing (I.e. double binauralisation).


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## GeorgeA

It seems that it’s not so important whether the headphones out or optical connector is used. There’s a new piece of information at the Kickstarter comments page. Another backer has just reported that he connected his Yarra to an Xbox One S with audio settings for bitstream Dolby Digital on optical output, HDMI/optical headphones and Atmos for headphones. For movies, the sound was just slightly better than 5.1 Dolby digital from his TV with the Yarra doing the decoding.


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## SierraMadre (Dec 1, 2019)

GeorgeA said:


> It seems that it’s not so important whether the headphones out or optical connector is used. There’s a new piece of information at the Kickstarter comments page. Another backer has just reported that he connected his Yarra to an Xbox One S with audio settings for bitstream Dolby Digital on optical output, HDMI/optical headphones and Atmos for headphones. For movies, the sound was just slightly better than 5.1 Dolby digital from his TV with the Yarra doing the decoding.


Ok. But unless he has the Yarra set to stereo mode (which I doubt) then he’s using exactly the same setup I described that you were previously sceptical of. . .

As for the efficacy of Dolby Atmos for headphone in this scenario, it will depend on whether the source content is Atmos or not. If games or films have Dolby Atmos for home theater, then applying Atmos for headphones works well, particularly if it’s true Atmos rather than more lossy Atmos via DD5.1 Plus or whatever it is that Netflix uses. I didn’t get that much in the way of height effects from the Lucky 13 episode of Love and Robots on Netflix for example but got good results from the 4k UHD Bluray of Avengers Endgame.
If it’s a non-Atmos Dolby codec then the improvement over vanilla Dolby Digital 5.1 is merely slight.


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## Stefanthebass

Very good, I think we are getting down to the basic thing I wrote before (but maybe I was too complicated):

1) Yarra does a decent job in "sound beaming" 2.0 audio to two ears. Multichannel audio has to be converted into 2.0 by some binaurilizer
2) the binaurilizer within the Yarra lacks configuration options, at least concering the balance of the volumes of the individual channels (e.g. center vs. surround channels)
3) external binaurilizers (Smyth, Atmos for headphones, ...) are capable of producing the same or better results than the Yarra internal binaurilization engine

I like to throw in another thought:
The delivery of sound from the Yarra compared to headphones is fundementally different. Therefore I think that the HRTFs that have to be used to convert a 5.1 to binaural also have to be different. Only the Smyth device is (as far as I understand it) capable of measuring the HRTF and therefore it can adapt perfectly to the Yarra sound system.
Other binaurilizer can only use HRTF calculated for headphone delivery...


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## GeorgeA

Some days ago, at the Kickstarter comments page, one backer wrote that he received his Smyth Research Realiser A16 and looked forward to replicating the initial setup used by Comhear. He also added that he would post his findings as soon as he got it all re-wired installed and tested.

As there is no post yet, I hope that he didn’t get lost among wires and measurements.


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## Stefanthebass

One more thing - listen to the AstoundSound 3d audio demo from 2011:
 

For me this is the best 3D audio demo there is. The special thing is, that it really has height information.The plane in the beginning flys above me and when he tears the newspaper (at 4:00)  it starts at ear level and then goes down.

So with a proper binaurilizer there is so much potential!


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## SierraMadre (Dec 2, 2019)

Stefanthebass said:


> Very good, I think we are getting down to the basic thing I wrote before (but maybe I was too complicated):
> 
> 1) Yarra does a decent job in "sound beaming" 2.0 audio to two ears. Multichannel audio has to be converted into 2.0 by some binaurilizer
> 2) the binaurilizer within the Yarra lacks configuration options, at least concering the balance of the volumes of the individual channels (e.g. center vs. surround channels)
> ...



I think point 3 is, at least in my experience, too simplistic a conclusion and not entirely balanced.
If we set aside Smyth for the moment (have not tried it and by all accounts it’s almost indistinguishable from the real thing when properly configured), Atmos for Headphone and other headphone VSS solutions cannot match the Yarra in one key area, depth for center channel and the edges of the front / left channels that border then center. Whether that’s due to the efficacy of its binauralisation algorithm, or, more likely, just due to its physical placement as the source of the sound being directed at the listenener from several feet in front, I don’t know.

When I previously mentioned good results from Atmos for Headphone with Avengers’ Endgame, I meant via the Yarra. The height effects were there and enjoyable but not as “high” or as focussed as using Atmos for headphones, *but* again, this was offset for me by the Yarra’s vastly superior depth of center channel etc. Just to clarify, this was achieved by using the Yarra’s internal binauralisation engine for second-stage binauralisation on top of Dolby Atmos for headphone.

I have complaints about aspects of multichannel and binauralisation on the Yarra but its basic ability to render 3D audio formats (when fed headphone VSS) and converted discrete multichannel surround  (when fed with Dolby Digital 5.1) are not amongst those complaints which are limited to:

- the lack of beam control / customisation promised by the control app mockup images which you alluded to

- the lack of information as to how the HRTF models in Dolby mode differ from each other

- the negative impact on quality the surround mode has on binaural PCM (although this may have been patched up since I last used/updated it).

and foremost:

- the lack of multichannel PCM support over HDMI and USB.

At this stage, I am unconvinced that we will ever receive multichannel PCM support. The fact that we can’t even apply the HRTF models to stereo PCM suggests that they never intended to ship with it in the first place and if it was ever truly on the development agenda, then it was probably abandoned at some point.

Btw, while Smyth is obviously gonna be the best by far, there do exist other headphone virtualisation algorithms that use measurements to personalize the HRTF, Waves NX (head circumference and inter-aural arc) and SXFI (face and ear mapping for the general consumer, and in-ear mic recorded PRIR for the lucky journalists and Singapore product launch attendees). I think Redscape Audio might use some physical measurements too.

Also, AFAIK, the Smyth Realiser to Yarra method demoed by Dr. Waldrep  doesn’t rely on any kind of special binauralisation mode optimised for speaker output. Minus the head-tracking, it is  (I think), the exact same HRTF signal “calculated for headphone delivery”.


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## SierraMadre

@Dr AIX I saw your recent comment on your blog when asked by a Yarra owner as to if and when you had / would test your production model Yarra(s) as per your previous statements of intent on the matter.

Please do correct me if I am wrong (and I sincerely hope I am) but this reply of yours suggests you’re not even sure if you can be bothered to unbox, test, compare to your prototype and share your impressions with backers awaiting your verdict and are instead leaning more towards just selling them on without . . .?

_“I’m sorry I haven’t followed up on this. In fact, the two units that I purchased are still sitting in their boxes under my table. I have a prototype model that I use under my computer monitor. The last I heard about the Comhear company was out of business. The management and board didn’t know what they had, didn’t know how to sell it, and didn’t understand the complexities of the device. Sad really. Maybe I’ll crack on out…but more likely sell the in the box units I have.”
_
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6596


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## mikemg

I have been extremely disappointed with the yarra 3dx ability to produce 360 surround sound ,and have been investigating how this could be improved ,and discovered by using my Xbox One as source set for Dolby Atmos for headphones this could be significantly improved

Configured Xbox to output with free Dolby Access App when connected with HDMI use Atmos for headphones 
Tested with Dolby Atmos 7.1 demo of plane in 7.1 and for the first time the 360 soundfield was nearly there 7.1 sound everywhere including a phantom height sound front left right even behind special effects and above me 
This is first time I have had close to acceptable sound staging 
It would be good if others could try this I only used YouTube demos on Xbox to achieve this 
Any comments

I realise by using Dolby Atmos for headphones the effect could be equally achieved with my headphones but certainly not with any soundbar not designed to support Atmos 
For me the thing that makes this special is the Xbox can use HDMI for Atmos
Looking at images of the Demos when they pitched this product the source was an Xbox I guess a shame the guys who developed this product didn’t tell us about this 
Untapped potential I guess also has anyone got an explanation as to why even using YouTube with Dolby Atmos for headphones on an Xbox One S I managed to get a not perfect but very close to my experiences of listening to Atmos with a 7.1 system


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## mikemg

Almost forgot this output was PCM HDMI connect HRTF 8 for me seemed to give best binaural positioning


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## SierraMadre (Feb 24, 2020)

mikemg said:


> I have been extremely disappointed with the yarra 3dx ability to produce 360 surround sound ,and have been investigating how this could be improved ,and discovered by using my Xbox One as source set for Dolby Atmos for headphones this could be significantly improved
> 
> Configured Xbox to output with free Dolby Access App when connected with HDMI use Atmos for headphones
> Tested with Dolby Atmos 7.1 demo of plane in 7.1 and for the first time the 360 soundfield was nearly there 7.1 sound everywhere including a phantom height sound front left right even behind special effects and above me
> ...


Good to hear that it works for someone else too. If you want to see my impressions of this method, check my earlier posts in this thread, have written fairly extensively about it here and also on the Yarra threads ar Avforums and AVSforum (under the names Sanctuary001 and SuikoSanctuary about using the Yarra to upmix pre-binauralised content (whether pre-binauralised at the recording / mixing stage or later by Atmos for headphone and other 3rd party VSS solutions) via Xbox One X.

Something to note is that atmos for headphone and Windows Sonic processed feeds can be sent from the Xbox to the Yarra or whatever else either as PCM or as bitstreamed Dolby Digital. Whatever the audio output is set to *before* activating Atmos for headphones /Windows Sonic will determine the form sent. If you deactivate Atmos for headphone then whatever the audio output setting says on Xbox will indicate the form being used, whether it’s uncompressed stereo PCM or bitstreamed Dolby Digital.
My previous posts will outline why I have found sending Atmos for headphone in Dolby digital form to be superior in this instance, not to mention, unless firmware has changed since I last updated, HRTF models are only selectable if the Yarra is receiving Dolby digital, not PCM.


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## mikemg

SierraMadre said:


> Good to hear that it works for someone else too. If you want to see my impressions of this method, check my earlier posts in this thread, have written fairly extensively about it here and also on the Yarra threads ar Avforums and AVSforum (under the names Sanctuary001 and SanctuaryEphemeral) about using the Yarra to upmix pre-binauralised content (whether pre-binauralised at the recording / mixing stage or later by Atmos for headphone and other 3rd party VSS solutions) via Xbox One X.
> 
> Something to note is that atmos for headphone and Windows Sonic processed feeds can be sent from the Xbox to the Yarra or whatever else either as PCM or as bitstreamed Dolby Digital. Whatever the audio output is set to *before* activating Atmos for headphones /Windows Sonic will determine the form sent. If you deactivate Atmos for headphone then whatever the audio output setting says on Xbox will indicate the form being used, whether it’s uncompressed stereo PCM or bitstreamed Dolby Digital.
> My previous posts will outline why I have found sending Atmos for headphone in Dolby digital form to be superior in this instance, not to mention, unless firmware has changed since I last updated, HRTF models are only selectable if the Yarra is receiving Dolby digital, not PCM.


Thanks for your advice and I will read up your previous posts 
However I am rather confused about your comments about HRTF only being available when using Dolby Digital output have checked this a number of times and found that HDMI output to Yarra is PCM as no blue light on Yarra only green which I understood was it wasn't activating Dolby Digital 
I set my Xbox One S to output as Atmos headphone using HDMI looking at app on my iPhone selected HTRF 8
Can you possibly explain why this option was still available using PCM output as the settings on my Xbox for Dolby Digital were greyed out 
Also can you possibly share your recommended graphic equaliser setting 
Many thanks as I feel there is untapped potential I want to unlock with better graphic equaliser settings


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## mikemg

I also wanted to ask you if your right if I select Dolby Atmos for headphones and and then select output as Bitstream Dolby Digital will I still experience Dolby Atmos in higher quality than PCM 
Sort for my confusion would appreciate you explaining in more detail about these options 
Thanks


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## SierraMadre (Feb 23, 2020)

mikemg said:


> Thanks for your advice and I will read up your previous posts
> However I am rather confused about your comments about HRTF only being available when using Dolby Digital output have checked this a number of times and found that HDMI output to Yarra is PCM as no blue light on Yarra only green which I understood was it wasn't activating Dolby Digital
> I set my Xbox One S to output as Atmos headphone using HDMI looking at app on my iPhone selected HTRF 8
> Can you possibly explain why this option was still available using PCM output as the settings on my Xbox for Dolby Digital were greyed out
> ...


I either go with a flat EQ or Stefan’s EQ which he shared on several forums such as AVS. you’ve probably come across those settings already.

Re HRTF, haven’t updated the Yarra in a couple of months. It’s possible that Firmware updates since have enabled HRTF selection for PCM input Which was previously not the case and specified accordingly in official documentation.

Alternatively you may have your Xbox set to bitstream Dolby digital without realising. When you activate / tick the Atmos for headphone box it greys everything else out. Whether Atmos for headphone is sent in PCM or Dolby Digital form depends on what the last / most recent non-Atmos for headphone / Windows Sonic output setting was prior to activation.

If nonetheless, you are still getting the green PCM input light and are able to choose HRTF models with a noticeable change in sound then I guess they must have updated it since but yours is the first post I have seen across multiple forums to mention being able to choose HRTF with PCM.


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## mikemg

Can I also ask you I noticed when I go in settings on my Xbox One S and chose and select Dolby Atmos headphones HDMI all Bitstream out is greyed out 
Are you saying that it is possible to activate Dolby Atmos and Bitstream output asxDolby Digital 
Can you please explain how


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## mikemg

SierraMadre said:


> I either go with a flat EQ or Stefan’s EQ which he shared on several forums such as AVS. you’ve probably come across those settings already.
> 
> Re HRTF, haven’t updated the Yarra in a couple of months. It’s possible that Firmware updates since have enabled HRTF selection for PCM input Which was previously not the case and specified accordingly in official documentation.
> 
> ...


Hi would it be possible if you could share Stefan the bass eq settings as I am unable to find ,and eant to see if his eq makes substantial change on mine 
Certainly flat doesn't work for me 
Thanks


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## SierraMadre (Feb 24, 2020)

Untick the box entitled “using HDMI or optical audio headset”. Then in the HDMI drop down box (or optical, which ever you are using) under “speaker audio”, select bitstream out. Beneath that select Dolby digital as bitstream format.
This sets your primary output config for games and streaming apps (Bluray app has its own settings though) and determines what form your Atmos for headphone will take (Dolby digital or PCM). Now re-tick the “using hdmi or optical audio headset” box to apply Atmos for headphone. - Whatever your last set primary output config was is what Atmos for headphone is applied to when you re-tick the Atmos box.

However it should be noted that for Xbox at least,  there isn’t much point in feeding the Yarra Atmos for headphones unless applied to actual discrete speaker configuration Atmos content such as a Bluray track or Netflix title or at least one of the rare games that actually has a discrete Atmos soundtrack intended for speakers.

For standard non-Atmos 5.1 and 7.1 content, better just to bitstream Dolby digital as is with no Atmos for headphone application.

Same for *pre-mixed* Atmos headphone content such as a mix built into a game’s audio settings (e.g. Overwatch) or pre-binauralised audio files or Streaming content (for example, Virtual Barber’s Shop or any of the Dolby surround demos on Youtube), best to have the Xbox transcode to vanilla Dolby Digital, forgo setting Atmos for headphone,  and just let the Yarra take it from there.
In effect you are double binauralising by applying Yarra’s surround mode to already binaural content, but that is necessary in this instance, it’s just how the Yarra reproduces surround in that context. However, if you then proceed to apply Atmos for headphone on top of the same content then you will be double binauralising already binauralised content - in effect, triple binauralisation (once at mixing / recording as the track is already binaural, a second time by applying Atmos for headphone, and then a third time by engaging Yarra’s surround mode), which will compromise accuracy and quality so best avoided.

Re audio quality, if you are not using the Yarra’s surround function on binaural content or are just applying the surround mode to vanilla non-binaural stereo then PCM is better. But if you are using the surround mode to upmix a pre-binauralised 2 channel stereo feed, in my experience it is better to send it to the Yarra as Dolby Digital rather than PCM in terms of audio presentation. See my earlier posts for more details.

I don’t have Stefan’s settings to hand. I suggest you search post by his user name (Stefanthebass) on here and on the Avforums and AVSForum thread.


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## GeorgeA

mikemg said:


> Looking at images of the Demos when they pitched this product the source was an Xbox I guess a shame the guys who developed this product didn’t tell us about this


I think that when they demoed Yarra 3DX at various AV events they used a Smith Research Realiser A8 as a source and not an Xbox. SR Realiser A8 is capable of decoding more AV formats than Yarra 3DX, which is limited to Dolby Digital 5.1 only. 

Unfortunately, I haven’t got an Xbox device to use it in conjunction with my Yarra 3DX and as I’m not a passionate gamer I’m not going to buy one. I look forward to receiving my SR Realiser A16 and I’m moderately optimistic that a combo between it and Yarra 3DX might be  useful for listening without headphones.


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