# Darkvoice just released 332



## Firevortex

got a quote for $300USD...rather expensive


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## swt61

Interesting! Is this a little sibling to the 336?


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## Nugget

Looks like it, but it'd be weird to have a little sibling that costs $10 less than the real thing.


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## Chiliman

Does darkvoice have a website? I have been looking for one for like 15 minutes


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## Firevortex

unit just went on sale few days ago in china. so i think you pay a premium to be the first to own it? dont think they got a home page


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## heeren

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Firevortex* 
_









 got a quote for $300USD...rather expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 errr u sure it's $300USD? coz i was quoted more than that...if not mistaken around the region of $USD675...and i was told it's supposed to be a midrange...in layman term "poor man's DarkVoice 337i"...its sound quality lies between the DarkVoice THA 336i and THA 337i...i m still waiting for more news about this amp...


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## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DAVISears* 
_Who is the layman? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I said before the price quoted would be selling expensive in local Malaysia market, thanks to our government taxessssss and we do provide one year local warranty support.
 Those unit selling overseas definitely cheaper compare to ours. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 hey! I think I recognize you! Aren't you from 

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=342802

 here?

 Can you tell us more about the 332? you said it's the shrunk down version of 337....does that mean it's better than 336?


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## DAVISears

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nichifanlema* 
_hey! I think I recognize you! Aren't you from 

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=342802

 here?

 Can you tell us more about the 332? you said it's the shrunk down version of 337....does that mean it's better than 336?_

 

Yes. I am. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes. It is shrunk down version of 337. For 337 you need two power point to run balance power input but 332 only need one. It comes with single transformer compare with two that 337 has. From business point of view, 332 giving advantage over the 337 as its shipping weight just about like 336 in another words means customer save from shipping, getting similar performance of 337 & the manufacturer can sell more


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## hyamaiata

So, is it solid state? Those black things are caps, right?

 Thanks


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## nichifanlema

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hyamaiata* 
_So, is it solid state? Those black things are caps, right?

 Thanks_

 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DAVISears* 
_Yes. It is shrunk down version of 337. For 337 you need two power point to run balance power input but 332 only need one._

 

So probably a tube amp..?


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## ysl

332 is a tube amp. using 6J1 x 2 & 6C19 x 2

 you can refer to this link:

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=342802


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## phergus_25

with the look of that power chord you would think it was being driven directly from a nuclear power plant


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## spacemanspliff

the 332 is selling for $450 on ebay??? What?


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## Godkin

I recently bought a DARKVOICE 332 from China (five days delivery) for 200 UK pounds. I wasn't expecting that much to tell you the truth (you know all the usual prejudices about Chinese hifi), I just wanted it as a back-up for my MF X-CAN V3, which out of necessity and curiousity I've extensively modded over the years. As soon as I hooked up the DARKVOICE, I knew I was listening to something special: bass was very deep and well defined; midrange was open and airy; and the top-end was clear, if not a little harsh (perhaps the result of the stock Chinese tubes?). As the days passed, the DARKVOICE became better and better: the top-end smoothed off, although to tell you the truth it remained a bit glassy; the midrange opened up even more; and the bass remained very deep and articulate. At first, the DARKVOICE was simply better than the ordinary X-CAN V3, then, gradually, it out-shone the modded one.

 It drives the SENNHEISER HD650s effortlessly, better than either the stock or the modded X-CAN V3. How they will cope with lower impedience cans like the GRADOs remains to be seen.

 I suspect if the tubes (2x6J1s and 2x6C19s) were changed the sonics would improve even more. Through this site, I know that the DARKVOICE 336i responds well to better quality valves, so hopefully the 332 will do the same. There are a number of 6S19P-Bs on E-Bay as well as some 6J1Ps, and all at a reasonable price.

 The DARKVOICE 332 was a revelation to me. At the price, I suspect there would be few to touch it. I certainly won't be buying any more over-hyped, over-priced British headphone amps.


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## DennyL

I'm totally confused. Are those funnel-looking things on it tubes??


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## jmmtn4aj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently bought a DARKVOICE 332 from China (five days delivery) for 200 UK pounds._

 

Where in gods name did you find it for that price? 

 And I long for the day I can spend 200 pounds without much expectations


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## phergus_25

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DennyL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm totally confused. Are those funnel-looking things on it tubes??_

 

they disipate the heat and in theory they prolong the life of the tube.


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## Godkin

As far as I can see, they help protect the valves in transit. I took them off. Looks much better - nice valvey glow.

 Bought the DARKVOICE on E-Bay - Jasmine's Hifi Store. The last time I looked, they were retailing at 235 UK pounds, but they have a "make me an offer" facility. I made an offer of £200 and it was accepted. Delivery was £35 - very quick and hassle free.


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## spacemanspliff

Why is it so much more $$ than the 336i?


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## phergus_25

From the looks of things and some prior explinations it is a good bit better, or should be.


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## spacemanspliff

hmmm....must be patient. maybe I'll see if they will take $350 + shipping.


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## phergus_25

hey godkin, mind showing a pic with the tube covers off?
 -greg


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## Godkin

Perhaps the price will stabilise once the novelity wears off. But at £200, this amp is a steal. I dare not think of the money I spent modding the X-CAN V3 - tubes, capacitors, diodes, resistors, etc, just to get it to sound like this little amp out of the box. And check out the price of replacement tubes on E-bay: 10 (yes 10) 6S19P-Bs for $18.00 and 10 6J1Ps for $9.99.


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## Godkin

I'll post some pics later - that's if I can!!!


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## Godkin

Here's the pics. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









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## DennyL

Thank you, Godkin, those are very good pics, and very helpful.


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## spacemanspliff

I made an offer and intend to review it if I can get it for the right price. We'll see.


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## Fitz

Very pretty... any internal shots? I'll bet theres a lot of modding potential in the little bugger.


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## Godkin

Here's a pic - not mine and not very good quality, but it gives you an idea. Typical DARKVOICE: very neat point-to-point wiring, and a very simple, "full direct coupled curcuit."






[/IMG]

 The most obvious mods are the valves. I've already ordered some SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs (10 for $18.99) and there more generic Russian equivalents, the 6S19Ps. These are more durable, mil-spec versions of the 6S19 (6C19). Also bought 5 Philips/Mullard black-plate 6AK5W, a mil-spec version of the 6J1 (other equivalents 5654, EF95, 403A, 6F32, etc). 

 This amp also seems to appreciate a really good power cable - I hooked up the QED Conduit and it improved the sound quite a bit.


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## spacemanspliff

Getting a 332 for a review. Jasmine says that it is "more better than the 336i"

 I hope so b/c I really would like some loving for my open Darth's.


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## swt61

It is the entry level little brother to the 336i from what I've been made to understand, and the pricepoint supports that notion. 
 Very interested in your impressions spaceman. I'm pretty sure it will be a nice sounding amp.

 Uhm it looks like I'm wrong here. From what I've found, this may be between the 336i and 337.


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## spacemanspliff

yo! it's the little brother of the 337 and better than the 336i supposedly.


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## swt61

Yeah that's what I seem to be finding out. I'm still lusting for the 337. Someday soon I hope.


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## Godkin

If the 332 sounds this good, I'd love to hear the 337.


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## ironbut

Those valve covers used to be used all the time to shield the tubes from EMI and RFI. They are grounded to the chassis and when they are in close proximity to xformers and power supplies in general, they reduce hum. I know in my Ec01, if I leave the shields off I get audible hum. Most tube sockets are designed to accept them. I think now days, when hum is detected when prototyping a design, they add the shields. Much easier than making a new component layout.


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## Godkin

I tried 2 Philips/Mullard Blackplate M8100s (NOS) in the DARKVOICE 332 today (the M8100 is a high quality military version of the EF95, which is an equivalent to the Chinese 6J1). I bought 5 of these little beauties on E-Bay for £2.95, yes you read right, £2.95 + £2.50 delivery. Elsewhere, they're selling for around £10 a peice.

 These tubes are fantastic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though good before, everything about the sound is improved: bass, while not particularly deeper, seems much more solid and well defined; the midrange is even more open and detailed; while the treble has lost that glassy harshness, which was my only real criticism of the 332. The sound has a liquid nature now, hanging together better.

 I've ordered some 6AK5Ws, again from E-Bay (another mil-spec version of the Communist Block 6J1). I've also ordered some Svetlana 6S19P-Bs to try. I think the makers of the DARKVOICE could have picked a more widely available tube. So far, I can only find the Soviet versions of this valve - the 6S19s range and its military cousins with the "P-B" suffix: there appears to be no western equivalent.


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## swt61

I'd love to hear a comparison of this amp alongside the 336.


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## spacemanspliff

well hell it's obviously a step up from the 336. good chance a darkvoice fan will have to get the 332 though I reckon. mine should be here next week so I best order some of those tubes yeah?


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## Godkin

Yeah, order up some of those tubes - there are plenty of them on E-bay, and at a good price. So far, I've found a bewildering number of eqivalents to the Chinese 6J1: the Soviet 6J1P and 6J1P-EV; then there's the western versions, EF95, 5654, 6AK5 (W), 6F32, 403A, CV4010, and of course the M8100. As far as I can see, any of these versions should, techically, work in the 332.


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## laxx

so did they end up accepting the offer of 350+shipping? i've always been interested in a darkvoice, whether the 336/336i or 332. the 337i is way out of my price range, so i never bothered to look at it. =T


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spacemanspliff* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well hell it's obviously a step up from the 336. good chance a darkvoice fan will have to get the 332 though I reckon. mine should be here next week so I best order some of those tubes yeah?_

 

Yeah, just wondering how the different tube compliment differs from the 336.
 I sure wish they'd balance the 337, I'd be the first customer!


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## Godkin

I think the 337 is, basically, two 336s put together. So, the compliment of tubes would be 2x6N8Ps and 2x6N5Ps.


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## spacemanspliff

the going price for the 332 is $450 shipped. which is about $380 + shipping.


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## swt61

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the 337 is, basically, two 336s put together. So, the compliment of tubes would be 2x6N8Ps and 2x6N5Ps._

 

Sorry, I meant between the 332 and 336. Yeah the 337 looks exactly like two 336's joined in a case.


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## Godkin

The 332 uses 2x6C19s (English: 6S19) and 2x6J1s.


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## budgetphile

Hi Godkin,

 A quick question, I live in the UK as well, (not that far from you, in west London), I understand that you got your 332 off ebay, all the ebay 332's I have come across come with a 220v power supply, are they safe to run on 240v? is there anything in particular one needs doing to run them safely over here?

 Thanks


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## spacemanspliff

I'll answer for Godkin. He had no issues at all with the power.


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## budgetphile

Hi spacemanspliff,

 I would have thought that having a higher voltage than rated would generate more heat and shorten the working life of the components.

 To Godkin,

 Was your unit shipped from France or China? and how was it labeled for customs? did you have to pay any import duty on it?


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## creeky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi spacemanspliff,

 I would have thought that having a higher voltage than rated would generate more heat and shorten the working life of the components._

 

You raise a good point here I have noticed with a few 220v amps when running on the 240 volt mains they tend to get a little to hot (in my opinion) and I have also noticed excessive transformer hum. As an experiment I tried hooking up one of the amps to a fairly hefty Variable transformer I had lying around. With the amp hooked up to this and with the voltage set to 220v I noticed the transformer hum all but disappeared, which hints running at 240v was driving the mains transformer into saturation. The other thing I noticed was running at 220v made the amplifier run far cooler. I took the transformer cover off and tried running at both 240v and 220v for a set amount of time. Running at 220v the transformer got very warm which is normal. Running at 240v I noticed the transformer got very hot so much so I couldn’t hold my finger on it for more than a second again suggesting running at 240v is driving the transformer in to saturation. 

 Because of this I now run all of my 220-volt amps off of the Variable transformer that is hidden away in my loft. As a plus they seem to sound better to my ears!


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## Godkin

Hi Budgetphile,

 No problems with the 220v - runs perfectly, and safely. Nothing else needed, although the supplied power cord (Spacemanspiff and I have already talked about this) is crap, so make sure you have a spare one handy, preferably a good quality one - this amp really appreciates it (I use the QED Conduit).

 My 332 was shipped direct from China. No problems with customs, no import duties to pay.

 Creeky's conclusions very much support my experiences with the 332. No hum. No excessive heating - just what you'd expect from a tube amp. 

 Today saw me fighting against temptation. I tried to resist fitting the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs, but lost the battle about three hours ago. Can't say much at the minute, but initial impressions very good. No hum anyway - velvety black backgrounds. Lovely looking valve (not that aesthetics matter) but much brighter. Better built as well - twice as heavy as the stock valve.


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## budgetphile

Thanks Godkin, so what's the most satisfying driver/ front tube combination you've come across so far?

 I am starting to get seriously twitchy, the only cure I know is to get myself a 332.

 Btw, were did you get the power cable from?


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## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Godkin,

 A quick question, I live in the UK as well, (not that far from you, in west London), I understand that you got your 332 off ebay, all the ebay 332's I have come across come with a 220v power supply, are they safe to run on 240v? is there anything in particular one needs doing to run them safely over here?

 Thanks_

 

I have a DV 336 that I use in the UK, and so far so good. It runs completely silently, so I am not aware of a transformer problem. I am aware that the UK voltage may shorten the lives of the valves because they are probably being over-run. I'm not an electronic engineer, but I think the issue for valve life is the valve heater voltage, which I think should be 6.3v, and the power dissipation of the heaters is proportional to the square of the voltage, so 10% over voltage is 21% worse. I keep meaning to measure the voltage that is being applied to the heaters to see what the situation is, but I haven't got around to doing it.

 I also have a Shanling CD player to which the same considerations apply.

 The question of the transformer being run into saturation is new to me.


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## pelayostyle

So this 332 uses the same power tubes as my ld2++ ??


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## Godkin

Not much experience with tube amps, mainly sold state or hybids. Have had MF X-CANS V2s and V3s, but, to me, this little amp blows them out of the water. I've extensively modded my V3 (caps changed throughout, better tubes, resistors, even Paper-in-Oil capacitors in the output stage) and still this little amp is better, although the differences are more subtle. If the 332 has a fault, it is that it it too revealing (at least with the present compliment of tubes: 2xM8100s and 2x6S19P-Bs), and could ruthlessly expose a bad recording or an inadequate source.

 DennyL may be right - tube life may be shortened. But replacements are so cheap (at least at the minute) that it doesn't really matter. The SVETLANAs I'm running right now, the 6S19P-Bs (the improved, mil-spec version of the standard 6S19) are very durable, long-life types, and I got 10 of them for £9.59. The output tubes are also widely available, and again cheap. 5 Mullard M8100s, again a mil-spec, high quality equivalent of the 6J1, for £2.59. (this tube again has a long-life - about 10,000 hrs.) I would advise anyone looking for these tubes to look for the equivalents: look for 6J1s and you simply get the Communist Block version of this tube - 6J1P or the 6J1P-EV. Look for the many western equivalents: 5654 (W), the 6AK5 (W), EF95, M8100, CV4010, 6F32, etc, etc.

 The 332 is extremely powerful, and can drive higher impedance cans, like the SENNHEISER HD650s, with ease. I can barely listen to this amp above 2 on the volume control without the fear that my ear drums will explode. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The QED Conduit can be picked up at most good electrical shops or on the internet. Brilliant cable for the money (approx £35-£40) - well worth it.

 I think you're right, the LITTLE DOT 2++ does share its power tubes with the 332 - the 6S19 (the English designation of the Russian 6C19). Smaller tubes, however, are different - the EF92 (CV138) I think.

 P.S. Budgetphile, don't twitch anymore, seek the cure before it's too late!!!


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## budgetphile

DennyL, Godkin seems to have found a cure for my twitch, I will be ordering a 332 in the next couple of days, maybe once I receive it and get to use it for a while, we can get together and compare the 332 and the 336?

 Godkin, for the life of me I cannot find anything that makes much sense when I do a google search for "QED conduit", could you be more precise?


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## Godkin

Budgetphile, any good internet hifi cables shop should sell the Conduit.

 Here's a few places I check out if I'm looking for a quality interconnect:

www.hificables.co.uk (QED Conduit 1.5m, £36.00)
www.cable-shop.co.uk (QED Conduit 1.5m, £36.00)
www.hificablesandaccessories.co.uk (QED Conduit 1.5m, £34.50)

 The cheapest I've seen it is:

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk (QED Conduit 1.5m, £32.99)

 The site's a bitch to navigate. Just go to the search engine on the right hand side of the screen and type in "QED."

 None of the above include postage and delivery - watch you don't get fleeced.


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## laxx

Ah, it's QED Qonduit Power Cord.


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## budgetphile

Thanks Godkin, I just ordered a cable from audiovisualonline, they have a special post free offer on goods over £10, later on in the day I will place my order for a 332, which has been an epic undertaking that involved contacting several suppliers, whose responses, or lack off, varied as did their prices and specs, more on this later once I receive the goods.

 While I am at it, how was the quality of the audio cables that came with the 332? do you have any particular recommendations in this department?


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## Godkin

Good on you, man. You won't be disappointed. The 332 is a real cracker. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You could maybe start searching out replacement tubes. The stock tubes are good, but they're so many better ones out there.

 No interconnects come with the 332 - only the power cord and you know what I think of that. Personally, I use VAN DEN HUL THE WELL interconnects. Really good, very open and detailed, with good bass.


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## Godkin

The SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs and PHILIPS/MULLARD M8100s (Black-plates) up and running, and sounding great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












 I can heartily recommend this tube set-up in the 332. Sounds fantastic, noticeably better, in my opinion, than the stock tubes. Much more atmosphere, bags of presence and realism, the timbre of instruments particularly good. In short, all the benefits of a tube amp but with few of the disadvantages - no soggy bass with the 332, instead it is deep, powerful and articulate. The best bass I've heard on a headphone amp. Still more experimentation to be done, but I could live quite happily with this compliment of tubes - forever.

 As I've said already, the only "fault" with the 332, as it is set up now, is that it is too detailed (not really a fault for me) and could expose a bad recording or source. For example, I've listened to Marianelli's score for the film "Pride and Prejudice" many times, but with the 332 you can hear everything, little background movements in the room, even the pianist's feet moving the petals. It also reveals that the disc is rather poorly recorded. But, as I said, this is a virtue not a vice because it adds authenticity to the listening of music.

 Today a rather worrying thought stuck me: if DARKVOICE made the 337 by sandwiching two 336s together, then what if they decide to join two 332s together and make a 334 or something. No, that thought is not worrying at at - it's delightful and somewhat awe-inspiring.


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## budgetphile

Hi Godkin,

 the Van Den Hul interconnects look impressive, I will stick to my QED Qunex 3s for the time being though, a 332 should be arriving at my door step in about ten days time.

 I suppose it's a matter of sourcing the tubes now.


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## Godkin

QED are very good cables, and I've used them a lot in the past. At the moment, I using the QED SIGNATURE 75 digital interconnect. So nearly as good as it gets.

 Looking for better tubes? What about this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audiophile-SVETL...QQcmdZViewItem


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## budgetphile

Thanks Godkin, the Svetas seem to be the easy ones to locate, it's the Mullards that I am struggling with -
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Where abouts in the UK are you?


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## Godkin

Ah, now, the MULLARDS M8100s are a bit harder to source. I bought mine, on E-bay, off a seller in Sweden. It's a pity cause he was auctioning another 5 M8100s last week. Some tube store bought them - probably charged an extortionate price to sell them on too. Look, I'll e-mail the guy and see if he has any more. Then I can put him in touch with you.

 When you get your 332, let the stock tubes bed in for a while: get to know the amp, it's many virtues and few flaws, so you know when the better tubes are fitted just what the improvements are.

 Live just outside Belfast, in the rainy and windswept county of Antrim.


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## hknight13

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today a rather worrying thought stuck me: if DARKVOICE made the 337 by sandwiching two 336s together, then what if they decide to join two 332s together and make a 334 or something. No, that thought is not worrying at at - it's delightful and somewhat awe-inspiring._

 

Greetings.
 I am from Hong Kong who is going to order a 337. As I know, 337 is a total different thing to a 336/336i.
 336i is the mainstream product
 337 is the flagship product with separated L/R channel power unit and component, it is a total different thing to the 336/336i in terms of inner design and quality, as i know (at least not a "sandwiching" thing of the 336s).
 332's design is similar to 337, with combined channel component

 their relationship in terms of quality should be as following:
 337>332>>>336I

 Hope this information can help


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## hknight13

Glad to see that the price to order these things here is a lot cheaper then where most of you living in.

 Get jealous of me


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## hknight13

you may able to see some pictures here:


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## minden

I have just ordered a 332 from ebay.

 I would also like to treat myself to a new headphone up to now I have been planning to buy an HD650 (my main cans are DT880 HF-1 and HD590) as I wanted a warmer delivery. I have read that the HD650 are not a perfect match for the Darkvoice range, can anyone through any light on this or suggest an alternative K701 or K-340 perhaps.

 Thanks in advance

 PS: I am in Northern Ireland so a good Grado would be to expensive.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 David


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## Godkin

Wellcome to the DARKVOICE thread. Perhaps I was a bit oversimplistic when I said that the 337 was two 336is sandwiched together. But in many respects, the 337 does resemble its little brother - tube compliment etc. The 332 is an outstanding amp, and if it is a smaller version of the 337, that amp must sound simply stunning. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's good to see another Ulster man here. I can tell you that the HD650s and the 332 work together beautifully. Although hard to drive, the Sennheisers are driven with consummate ease by the 332, so no worries there.


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## jamesp

Godkin,

 Did you experience any humming when you roll tubes?


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## Godkin

I've heard of some guys with the 336i having trouble with humming when rolling valves, but no problems so far.


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## MuziekMuzak

Today a rather worrying thought stuck me: if DARKVOICE made the 337 by sandwiching two 336s together, then what if they decide to join two 332s together and make a 334 or something. No, that thought is not worrying at at - it's delightful and somewhat awe-inspiring.[/QUOTE]

 Aren't You forgetting the Darkvoice 330 Flagship?
 The 2x 332 combo who formed the Superior 331(The Chinese Count backwards
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) Superceded by the 330 slimmed down, but similar output Tube Head amp!


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## Godkin

Never heard of the 330 or 331, but they must be impressive to look at and even more impressive to listen too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are there any pics of these amps?


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## Worldphoto1970

I'm a new possessor of the Darkvoice 332 and got few good hints in this 3d about valves alternative. I easily found and purchased 6J1P & 6S19P, no chance to get Mullard 8100. Anyway not a problem, just wanna know if a competent person could suggest some other nice valve matches to try on 332.

 Thanx & Bye.


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## jamesp

I think there are many substitute for the 6J1P such as 6AK5 and 5654 search on ebay they are cheap!


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## Godkin

Like JamesP says, there are plenty of alternatives to the 6J1 out there, and very cheap. There's the Russian mil-spec version of the 6J1 - the 6J1P-EV. Then there is the bewildering array of western equivalents: the 6AK5 and its military brother the 6AK5W; the 5654 and its military spec version, the 5654W; another is the EF95; the 403A; the 6F32; the CV (common valve) 4010; the brilliant M8100; the list goes on and on. I've heard from those in the know that the AEG F95 is a very good tube - very well made and sweet sounding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If I were to suggest alternatives, try the military specs versions - 6AK5W, the 5654Ws, or the CV4010, although the latter, like the M8100, is hard to get. Any of these valves, at least technically, would be an improvement over the stock SHUGUANG 6J1s.


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## Worldphoto1970

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were to suggest alternatives, try the military specs versions - 6AK5W, the 5654Ws, or the CV4010_

 

Going hunting for these, hope they'll make my HD600 really happy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.


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## Smasha

you are all giving me headaches-Now I don't know what amp to get for my dt 990 pros
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 darkvoice,heed canamp,corda arietta-looked in the dac thread and that was enough to give me a migraine-mods and more mods.

 I'm so confused,I don't know if I want an amp now for fear of getting the wrong one.


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## Godkin

The DDT990's are, like the Sennheisers, hard to drive - I think their impedance is somewhere around 250ohms. All I can say is, the DARKVOICE 332 has plenty of power and drives the HD650s very easily indeed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If this is anything to go by, the 332 would also easily drive the 990s.

 The HEED Can Amp is also very good - I've heard nothing but good reports about it, and according to those reports it drives BEYERDYNAMIC cans very well. Haven't heard anything bad about CORDA either, but don't know about its capacity to drive high impedance headphones.

 At the end of the day, it's all down to your own individual preferences. Try to audition as many as you can, but if you can't then, as with myself and the 332, you simply have to take the risk and hope it pays off.


----------



## Jon L

Any chance some of you Darkvoice owners can try some low impedance 'phones like Grado's (specifically RS-1) to see if bass is lacking or if there is background hum/noise?


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance some of you Darkvoice owners can try some low impedance 'phones like Grado's (specifically RS-1) to see if bass is lacking or if there is background hum/noise?_

 

I have a pair of 325i and the 332 was shipped yesterday, once it get here I will give it a try.


----------



## Godkin

Another batch of 6S19P-Vs arrived this morning, these valves being made by the Ulyanovsk plant in Russia. Again, as you'd expect from a military valve, built like tanks, very heavy and well made. 

 Fitted them this afternoon, and I must say they sound great, even though they are, literally, only out of the box. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No background hum, everything nice and quiet - thankfully. Like the SVETLANAs, very open and detalied, bass very good, reproduction very realistic, timbre of instuments excellent, especially the top-end which shimmers beautifully. I let them run-in for a while and report back with any conclusions, but initial impressions excellent.


----------



## orac02

Hi
 After deciding I wanted a valve amp and having a look round to see what people liked on this forum I decided on a Tha 322.

 It turned up the other day (less than two weeks) so having benefited from other peoples input posted here I just thought I'd say what I thought of it.

 Laptop/DDDac MkII (USB and DAC)/332/HD650

 I had previously been listening through my 41Hz Amp1b headphone output which with numerous adjustment, I had so I was very happy with. Perhaps to analytical for some tastes but very detailed!
 Out of the box I was quite impressed. Having read various comments about the "valve sound" I wasnt sure how it would compare. Well, good detail and sound stage. The bass was not as controlled as the 41Hz and the higher treble was a bit -umm- sharp. But having listened to it for only 4 hours or so these have both improved considerably. Its still lacking in detail a bit compared with the 41Hz but continues to improve. When its got a few hours on it , well ..........
 This sounds more negative than I feel about the 332, it just has a lot beat!
 It is more listenable I think, than the 41Hz. It certainly makes me want to continue listening- thats a result.

 So, what are peoples experiences of how long it will take to settle? 
 Does anyone have a circuit - what comes out of the output connection as its not wired straight through and the owners manual is not the most informative bit of paper I have ever read.

 Cheers
 Steve

 I must say its very neat inside!


----------



## Godkin

My 332 took ages to run-in properly - about 5-6 days running constantly. DARKVOICE suggests about 50 hours, but I think a lot longer. I agree with you, the top-end is a bit harsh and glassy, but that calms down a little as it runs in. I too thought there was less detail, but when I listened to the music more carefully, the detail was there, it was just presented differently and within a well defined soundstage. The bass was, for me, always very good, but I have to say when I changed to the M8100s the bass seemed to "solidify."

 As you may have read above, I've changed the tubes: the stock 6J1s replaced to MULLARD M8100s (black plates) and the 6S19s (Russian cryllic - 6C19) to firstly SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs, but today changed to 6S19P-Vs, again from Russia. These tubes improve the sound - as you would expect from military spec tubes. The SVETLANAs are more valvey - great sense of presence and realism. Not really able to comment on the others yet, but very good initial impressions. Also this amp really seems to appreciate a good power cord - I used the QED Conduit with good results.


----------



## laxx

Pics of your DV 332 with these spiffy tubes please godkin. =]


----------



## Godkin

Here you go, the M8100s and 6S19P-Vs in place:


----------



## orac02

Thanks for the reply.

 All my stuff runs from batteries, which makes leaving it on permanently( at least with an input signal )a bit of a fiddle, so patience will have to do.

 I dont want to start swapping stuff yet although at some point I wont be able to stop myself Im sure! A whole new world I have yet to explore-valves.

 Yes Ill sort out a lead, I only need 250mm.

 Thanks
 Steve


----------



## Godkin

Sure, Steve, you right to wait until the stock valves bed themselves in. I mean, how can you judge what improvements any future valves will make, if you don't know how the original valves sounded? 

 The world of valve rolling is complex one. What valves to use? At least with the larger of the two valves, the 6S19, this won't be a problem. As far as I can see, there's only the Chinese and Russian varieties to choose from, and from this limited source the Russian mil-spec versions are the ones to go for; look for the "P-V" or "P-B" suffixes as these mean they're mechanically improved, long life types. But then there's the down-side - the bewildering ammount of 6J1 equivalents. It's enough to drive you mad!!!


----------



## orac02

Then it looks like Ill be joining a whole bunch of other mad people, because Im sure not much tweaking will make this very good.
 Any ideas on a circuit or how they derive the output on the back?

 Steve


----------



## Godkin

Don't know if you've seen this, Steve, but here's a pic of the 332 inside. Apologies for the quality, but the pics not mine.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My 332 took ages to run-in properly - about 5-6 days running constantly. DARKVOICE suggests about 50 hours, but I think a lot longer. I agree with you, the top-end is a bit harsh and glassy,_

 

This is good to hear, I just got mine yesterday and the top-end is definitely harsh. It is burn in right now, I hope it gets better.


----------



## Godkin

The 332 definitely sounds "bright" out off the box. As the amp runs in, this should be tamed a bit, but I think the stock tubes, the Chinese 6J1s and 6S19s, are perhaps the problem - maybe they just sound naturally "bright." 

 What cans are you using? I imagine the GRADOs could make a bad situation worse.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 definitely sounds "bright" out off the box. As the amp runs in, this should be tamed a bit, but I think the stock tubes, the Chinese 6J1s and 6S19s, are perhaps the problem - maybe they just sound naturally "bright." 

 What cans are you using? I imagine the GRADOs could make a bad situation worse._

 

I have no idea whether the 332 sounds similar to the 336i or not. I am not quite happy with the 336i's presentation with the upper midrange/highs with a few of the headphones I have paired with it (somewhat independent of tube variations). While not exactly harsh or bright, it seems that there is a strong emphasis on the leading edges of notes, and a lack of follow-through or fullness. While the treble may or may not actually be all that pronounced, it seems this way because the edges of the upper mids/highs sound sharp and, at times, "brittle." I realize this is probably a bizarre description, and my ability to convey sonic characteristics is lacking as usual.

 Anyway, what I actually wanted to get to was that I have found Grados (specifically the HF-1) to be an excellent match with the 336i. From my prior experience with the 336i I wasn't expecting this at all. I expected a bad situation to be made worse, as you said, but oddly enough a slightly annoying situation was made awesome. I feel like I am hearing all HF-1, with life, energy and room to breathe without over-coloration or too much amp coming through. Headphones with more laid-back presentations suffered somewhat from the sharp/harsh quality, and the HF-1 doesn't.

 I am wondering how much of a 'house sound' there is between Darkvoice models, and I would love to know how a Grado pairs with a 332.


----------



## Godkin

That's weird. One thing the HF-1 may be criticised for is its "brightness." Just goes to show you that you can't over-generalise. I use HD650s, and although harsh and glassy at the start with the 332, they've now assumed their natural character - very open, natural and powerful.

 You may be right, it may be an "in-house" sonic characteristic of DARKVOICE amps. Personally, I very happy with overall sound of the 332, but then again I've changed the tubes - MULLARD M8100s and 6S19P-Vs from Russia. The sound has been tamed and improved somewhat, but I don't think you'll ever totally "civilise" it. 

 But then again so many factors influence the nature of the amp's reproduction of the music - the amp itself, of course, but also the quality of the recordings, the individual headphones used, etc. Some recordings on the 332 sound great, others crap - very forward, congested and, basically, awful sounding. And in the future I don't think it's going to get any better. Modern recordings have little to no production values - out the window goes quality and in comes "loudness." But there I go, generalising again.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 definitely sounds "bright" out off the box. As the amp runs in, this should be tamed a bit, but I think the stock tubes, the Chinese 6J1s and 6S19s, are perhaps the problem - maybe they just sound naturally "bright." 

 What cans are you using? I imagine the GRADOs could make a bad situation worse._

 

I'm using the HD650 with Raytheon tubes right now and it is better. Grado 325i and stock tubes suck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'm going to let the Raytheon burn in for a little and try it again with the 325i.


----------



## jamesp

By the way after about 20 hours of burn in the harshness seems to subside a bit and it sounds great with the HD650 now...I'm too afraid to try out the 325i...lol... may be I'll wait until it burn in a little more


----------



## Godkin

That's great, I'm glad to hear the sound's improving. The RAYTHEON tubes will certainly help - there're excellent valves (are they black plates?). I think you'll find out as the hours go by that the sound will open up and the top-end will "soften" a bit. 

 I agree with you, the synergy between HD650s and the 332 is fantastic. I feared the GRADO, with their "bright" character, might not go with the 332. Your experiments with the 325i has confirmed this. Have you thought about replacing the stock 6S19s? I've tried the SVETLANAs and they're excellent. The 6S19P-Vs I have in at the minute are warming up nicely. Certainly would be worth a listen. 

 Keep us posted about developments.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's great, I'm glad to hear the sound's improving. The RAYTHEON tubes will certainly help - there're excellent valves (are they black plates?). I think you'll find out as the hours go by that the sound will open up and the top-end will "soften" a bit. 

 I agree with you, the synergy between HD650s and the 332 is fantastic. I feared the GRADO, with their "bright" character, might not go with the 332. Your experiments with the 325i has confirmed this. Have you thought about replacing the stock 6S19s? I've tried the SVETLANAs and they're excellent. The 6S19P-Vs I have in at the minute are warming up nicely. Certainly would be worth a listen. 

 Keep us posted about developments._

 


 Yes the Raytheon are black plates. I'm getting some Svetlana 6S19P-V and M8100, hopefully sometime next week. I did tried the 325i again this morning after 30 hours of burn in, it sounded pretty good although I only had it on for may be 5 minutes, got to give it more time.


----------



## Godkin

Thanks for keeping us abreast of developments. 

 The RAYTHEONs sound great, and the higher grade, mil-spec black plates make them ever better, and more desirable. In that period (1950s/1960s), the US were making excellent tubes: the RAYTHEONs, the SYLVANIAs, the RCAs and the GEs, all great sounding tubes. It's strange that when you put a tube from the 50s and 60s, it sounds better than one made yesterday. In the modern world, I suppose, the "art" of manufacturing tubes has been lost.

 I don't think you'll be disappointed with the M8100s or the SVETLANAs.


----------



## budgetphile

My 332 arrived today, I ordered it ten days ago, through an Audio shop owner in Malaysia, who happens to frequent these forums.

 I asked for a 240V transformer to be fitted (the available power supply in U.K) instead of the standard 220V transformer, this and the fact that the factory tests all its export models for three days before dispatch took a few days, the DarkVoice was dispatched on the 22nd from China and arrived at my doorstep in London on 25th, must be a record.

 I initially contacted Jian Liu whose details were provided by echo1 in the DarkVoice 336 thread, I sent Jian Liu several emails, he only answered the one (I think it was either the second or third email I sent) in which I inquired about the availability and the cost, the rest of my emails went unanswered.

 I tried the ebay sellers, and none of them could provide me with a DarkVoice with a 240V transformer, they only have 220V or 110V models, which makes me suspect that they simply sell standard Chinese models, and have no contact with the factory.

 Then I came across Tan Su Eong who is an audio shop owner in Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia through a link somewhere on this forum that pointed to a forum in Malaysia, Tan Su was absolutely fantastic, putting up with, and answering, a torrent of emails from me, he even called me over the phone from Malaysia (at his own expense) to explain a few issues for me (Tan Su speaks perfect English).

 The price I paid for the DarkVoice is comparable to prices charged on ebay, what I got over and above what the ebay sellers have to offer is a DarkVoice for export with a 240V power transformer, and the chance to get to know a great guy.

 I played the DarkVoice for about an hour so far (using both HD650 and HD580 Senns), and I must say that I am very impressed indeed, even with stock brand new tubes the sound is very lush, rich and well defined with acres of sound stage, far better than anything I've ever heard in this price range, from memory I even think that the DarkVoice (with stock tubes, and still not run in) sounds better, by far, than amps that cost twice as much.

 I took some pictures which I will post later on, but for the time being, here are the contact details for Tan Su:

 email: davis(.a.t.)japan(.d.o.t.)com

 Tel: +60-16-4220885

 I have ordered several replacement tubes, and I am waiting for them to arrive, some tubes were ordered over ten days ago from the US, Canada, Ukrain and the U.K. (China post has beaten you guys by a long margin) and I am still waiting for them to arrive.

 Once the DarkVoice has settled down a bit, and had replacement tubes fitted, I'm sure we are going to have one heck of a tube rolling party in this thread.

 happy Dark Voicing everyone


----------



## Godkin

Welcome, Budgetphile, to the 332 owners club. 

 Good to see you got a 240v version. That was one hell of a quick delivery!!! I thought I was doing well with a 5 day delivery. And from a reliable, helpful and courteous source, you can't get better than that. 

 You'll find that the 332 will get even better as the days go by. DARKVOICE recommend about 50 hours, but I found it took a lot longer. Are you using the 332 with the QED power lead? What valves have you ordered? I know for our earlier posts that you had no problem getting your hands on the SVETLANAs. They're very good in the the 332 - very open and atmospheric. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the moment, I'm burning in a pair of 6S19P-Vs made by the famed Ulyanovsk plant in Russia. I must say they are excellent as well. They appear more heavily built than the SVETLANAs - very heavy with think glass. Sonically, they seem very similar to the SVETLANAs, but I think the separation of voices and instruments is better with the Ulyanovsk tubes.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I played the DarkVoice for about an hour so far (using both HD650 and HD580 Senns), and I must say that I am very impressed indeed, even with stock brand new tubes the sound is very lush, rich and well defined with acres of sound stage, far better than anything I've ever heard in this price range, from memory I even think that the DarkVoice (with stock tubes, and still not run in) sounds better, by far, than amps that cost twice as much._

 

You couldn't have pick a better amp for the Senns....there is something magical about Darkvoice amp with the HD650....I'm also talking about the 336i that I upgraded from.

 Happy Listening


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the moment, I'm burning in a pair of 6S19P-Vs made by the famed Ulyanovsk plant in Russia._

 


 I just won 6 tubes on ebay that was made from the same plant in 1983, man this is going to be fun rolling all the tubes. It's a good thing that all these tubes are relatively cheap
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Superpredator

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You couldn't have pick a better amp for the Senns....there is something magical about Darkvoice amp with the HD650....I'm also talking about the 336i that I upgraded from.

 Happy Listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree. I found the 336i to be a more synergistic match with the HD650 than with the K340, which makes sense since I believe the 336 was designed for use with, among other higher end cans, the HD650. It would appear that there is a Darkvoice house sound. I wish the 332 used the same tubes as the 336i.


----------



## budgetphile

Hi Godkin,

 I've ordered:

 Sylvania 6AK5W

 Svetas

 Ulyanovsks

 generic Russian 6S19P-V

 Mullard M8100

 and UltraSonic tube dampeners, not that the 332 needs them, it is "outer space" silent.

 I've hooked up with the QED cable you recommended, and I am using QED Qunex 3 interconnects.


 Hi jamesp,

 I did not have the chance to hear the 336, how does it compare to the 332?


 Taking into account the dealers' commissions and the shipping charges, those Chinese factories are performing near miracles for very little indeed.


----------



## Godkin

You've all got some brilliant tubes on the way. I'd be interested to hear your comments on the SVETLANAs and Ulyanovsks. Both sound great, but for me the Ulyanovsk 6S19P-Vs take the honours, although you may think the reverse. 

 I also like to hear you opinions, Budgetphile, on the Sylvania 6AK5Ws. I've been looking at those myself. Whatever, I think, like you, that the 332 is a steal, amazing value for money.

 (If you think that's a steal, I picked up a YAQIN 6J1 tube buffer for £12.00. Fantastic!!!)


----------



## orac02

Like Budgetphile I decided to get a 240v version. 
 I ordered mine from Jian Liu on the basis that his reply, to my emailed questions seemed best informed of the people I tried.
 Delivery was 3 days to leave China , 11 days total.
 Just thought Id tell you my good experience with Jian Liu for balance.

 It is still improving daily. The most noticable being an improvement in the detail and the bass has tightened up considerably.These were my major concerns as Im happier than you guys seem to be about the higher frequencies

 Steve


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi jamesp,

 I did not have the chance to hear the 336, how does it compare to the 332?_

 

I'm not ready to make the call as of yet since the 332 is still burning in. Initially, I can say that the 332 seems to be a bit better in the bass. More to come...


----------



## Worldphoto1970

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_(If you think that's a steal, I picked up a YAQIN 6J1 tube buffer for £12.00. Fantastic!!!)_

 

May you give me your impression about this buffer?
 I've always been skeptic about stuff put between source and amplifiers, but not really tried one.


----------



## Godkin

Impressions of the YAQIN tube buffer are mixed at the moment, and any comments would of course depend on what you want from your sound. 

 First thing I did was to get rid of the stock 6J1s as their sonic character can be rather harsh and glassy. I replaced them with some MULLARD EF95s. Improvement is sound right away: simply huge soundstage with deep bass, timbre of voices and instruments, as you'd expect from tubes, excellent. But in the expansion of the soundstage, I realised that I'd lost some of the immediacy of the music - details of the music that were there before were suddenly lost. 

 I then switched the MULLARDS for some Russian mil-spec 6J1P-EBs made by VOSHOD. Again, very good tube, but too soon yet to make any conclusive statements. As I said, it all depends on what you want form your music. If you love presence, that sense of the environment beyond the music, a huge soundstage with really extended, powerful bass, then this is the device for you.


----------



## lionel marechal

It seems that people like it with senns (hd650 and hd580) but that the jury is still out on grados. One good input on HF1, one bad on 335.

 ANybody had a chance to try with rs-1 or rs-2 ? Or more input with regular grado (st-x other than st335) ?

 Thanks guys
 I sold my dared and looking to by a 220v headphone amp that would suit both my hd650 and my grado rs-2. 

 Lionel


----------



## Godkin

The consensus here appears to point to the synergy between higher impedance cans and the DARKVOICE amps. They drive the Sennheiser HD580s, HD600s and HD650s with consummate ease (300ohm). The 336 is, apparently, the perfect match for the AKG 340s with the enormous impedance of 400ohms. JamesP has yet to report back on his final conclusions about the 332 and the Grado 325is, so maybe there's hope yet.


----------



## Worldphoto1970

I reached the 50th hours with 332 (but just about 30 of listening, the remaining just burning, I let it warm up at least half hour before listening) and I'm not that enthusiast. Headphones are Senny 600.

 First of all I'd like to clarify that maybe my source is not that excellent being a very old Pioneer PD-S601 with many hundreds hours of work on the back, anyway I think it's far better than any ipod stuff used as a source.

 I listened 332 mainly with classical and jazz music: old recordings, new recordings, studio and live recordings. I must admit I lived some great moments: some piano notes (Kreutzer sonata - Kremer/Argerich) seemed to be better than the *real*stuff*, some high-pitch violin passages (Tchaikovsky violin concert - Karajan/Mutter) simply dramatic and oh so near.

 Live jazz, and again presence was the 332 quality, never felt Bill Evans or Oscar Peterson pianos so close and real.

 Then I break on other lands with a different but equally difficult test: Take 6's Live Concert. Here I realize something I never felt before so clearly: flatness. Scene with 332 has never been that wide at my ear, but the real big issue (and problem) is it's not deep! In this recording you easily get what I mean: public and performers are in impossible positions, superposed on each other!

 I'm going to test it with an even more challenging recording: Arvo Part's Kanon Pokajanen, an 80 minutes composition for a cappella choir. Hope things won't go worse.

 Could it be a source problem?
 Could it be something adjustable with tube rolling?

 Surely Senny 600 can't be the cause, I'm a long term loyal fan of this producer (19 years with a single pair of HD540, I changed EVERYTHING to them before they finally broke down) and never felt betrayed. Senn has always been comfortable with the music I'm used to listen, though I'm now rather curious to try a serious closed dynamic headphone (Beyer Dynamic or Audio Technica my main targets).

 About source: I'm going to discover soon about it, since I'm giving retirement to PD-S601, upgrading it with Nad c542 or Cambridge Audio Azur 640C (by the way, any opinion in matching these machines with Darkvoice and Senn?).

 About tube rolling: russian replacements should be here any moments.

 In the worst case I'll keep 332 for vpr film audio and I'll go out for a different and more expensive (hopefully better performing) amp.


----------



## Godkin

I haven't had the problems you've described - large orchestral or choral pieces sound very good on my 332. Everything clearly detailed and delineated. 

 I don't think it would be a problem with the Sennheisers - if anything, classical music would be their forte.

 One thing I've stressed in any comments I've made is that the 332 is very revealing, and as such can expose a bad recording. On my system, bad recordings sound closed-in and congested. However, you seem to know your stuff when it comes to good and bad recordings, so it may not be this.

 The weak point may be your Pioneer PD-5601. Is the 332 perhaps amplifing an poor source? The NAD or CAMBRIDGE AZUR would be, I think, an improvement. The new CAMBRIDGE gear is getting fantastic write-ups at the minute, and certainly represents great value for money.

 Tube rolling is always a option with the 332. The Russian 6S19P-Bs or PVs are certainly the way to go, especially the ULYANOVSK version as its strength, in my opinion, is that it separates voices and instruments very well. You should also look for some alternatives to the smaller, output valves. These are more likely to alter the sonic character of the 332 than the larger, power rectifying valves. There is certainly a myraid of varieties to choose from. Try the mil-spec equivalents: the 5654W; 6AK5W; M8100; CV4010; or the Russian military versions of the 6J1s, the 6J1P-EBs.

 Also try a good power lead - it adds "air" to the sound and also improves the resolution of fine detail.


----------



## Worldphoto1970

While I'm typing, another 332 test is on the run: ECM's recording of Kanon Pokajanen by Arvo Part. A severe, reflective sacred piece for unaccopanied choir: everything is here, whispered slow delicate passages, crescendo and "mass" (it is not designed for a large choir) moments, long humming backgrounds. Dynamic of this piece is not an issue, it does not require fast answers, it's rather linear in its change, but the point I'm trying to get is about something else. I'm pausing often to concentrate on certain passages. ECM live recordings are in my opinion mostly flawless, so I'm quite sure about the CD.

 Senny are definitely not chargeable in any way.

 As every passionate hifi lover know, source is the most important piece of the system, a flaw there and the chain reaction is inevitable. PD-S601 could effectively be responsable for the depth problem. Either Nad or Cambridge are a huge step over this simple and old component.

 Just want to underline that my problem with 332 (ok, I'm not sure it's the 332) is not about details (that analysis is rather long and yet to come), it's just space, depth of space. This is the first and most easily thing to judge for me. I don't pretend to get the moon from a 400$ amp, on fact I'm happy with wideness (though not exceptional), but rather disappointed with depth.

 Ok, half way now, going to listen at the second cd (80 minutes divided in two cd's, now, this is a reasonable way to record music).

 I'm getting what I want only in mid passages, in the extremes, outer range of dynamic delivery is flat, no doubt about it, worse in the forte moments. It's not a matter of bass, treble, or acute, the right words are lack of depth of space. Music is not extending in front of me (mind, I searched on the back also... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).

 If only the postman would ring and handle me this russian tubes!


----------



## Godkin

WorldPhoto1970,

 If your 332 is still lacking "space and depth" you could try the YAQIN tube buffer. I've been running one in over the last week (and, by God, it takes some running in), and it has a huge soundstage, with a very believeable sense of depth. 

 I've also been comparing it with the MF X-10 V3, and while that piece of equipment has many benefits (its grip on the music, it's pace and drive, and its lovely timbre to voices and instruments), it just can't match the YAQIN for its openess and soundstaging. Simply wonderful piece of kit, and for the price fantastic (£12). 

 And the great thing about it is, it uses the same tubes as the 332 - namely, two 6J1s. I've been trying different tubes over the last few days, 6J1P-EBs, MULLARD EF95 and M8100s, and they have all been excellent, a noticeable improvement over the stock tubes.


----------



## KT88

a few things:
 1 - I have noticed that many say the 336i isn't a good fit for low imp. cans like GRADO and W5000's and others. We had a meet in Israel a couple of days ago, and tested the 336i with many headphones with imp from 32 to 300 ohms. no one noticed any problems with the sound. I must agree that stock the 336i is a good amp for the price but nothing more. Luchy for me, I have a few great tubes to run it with that make a great diffrence + I have modded mine. low imp cans aren't the strongest point of the DV, but it sure isn't as weak as some people try and make it, it'll habdle with no problems even cans with 16ohms. The W5000's A900's, K701, SR225, all sound very goos with the DarkVoice compared to other headphone amps I've heard. For example, the Vincent KHV111 which has a SS output stage isn't any better, especially with the stock tube which is bad.

 2 - I went over this thread, but didn't see any real comparison between the 336i and the 332, did someone make one?

 3 - can someone give a few high resolution pics of the inside, I want to see what modding potential it might have


----------



## jamesp

ok, after a good ~60 hours on the amp with some Russian 6S19P and 5654 Raytheon, I can say now that this is a great amp. the Harshness I've heard before is completely gone. I did not believe in burn-in before but I do now. It really does sound great with Grado 325i and RS2. I had a friend (Pete7) on Saturday and we did some audition with his PPX3 SLAM and we both came away with the conclusion that the Dartkvoice (with the right tubes combo) can hang with the SLAM. Actually, I think Darkvoice sound good with all the headphone I have. It is a keeper for sure.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, after a good ~60 hours on the amp with some Russian 6S19P and 5654 Raytheon, I can say now that this is a great amp. the Harshness I've heard before is completely gone. I did not believe in burn-in before but I do now. It really does sound great with Grado 325i and RS2. I had a friend (Pete7) on Saturday and we did some audition with his PPX3 SLAM and we both came away with the conclusion that the Dartkvoice (with the right tubes combo) can hang with the SLAM. Actually, I think Darkvoice sound good with all the headphone I have. It is a keeper for sure._

 

Hi Jamesp

 How does your 332 compare to your M^3?

 Thanks

 USG


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Jamesp

 How does your 332 compare to your M^3?

 Thanks

 USG_

 

To me, the M3 is more sterile and the Darkvoice is more warmth... I used to love listening to the Mcube but lately I have been reaching for the 332
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To me, the M3 is more sterile and the Darkvoice is more warmth... I used to love listening to the Mcube but lately I have been reaching for the 332
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





._

 

Hi J

 Which op amp do you have in your M^3? And could you contrast with a little more detail the differences you hear between the two?

 Thanks again

 USG


----------



## budgetphile

I had to go away for work last week, got back yesterday to find all the tubes I've ordered waiting for me. Can't get to play yet, too busy, I'll have to wait for next weekend to get my elbows wet.

 meanwhile:


----------



## Godkin

JamesP, great to see you experiments with the 332 and the GRADOs. The question posed on this thread as to whether the 332 can be used with GRADOs has been answered - yes, it can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Have you tried any M8100s yet? I think they sound brilliant with the 332.

 Thanks, Budgetphile, for the great pic. With your permission, I'll post it on some other sites I visit.


----------



## Godkin

A matched pair of RCA JRC 5654/6AK5Ws arrived this morning from the good old USA. Fitted them, and right from the off they sounded great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll leave any final conclusions until they've run in properly.

 They were made in 1962. Just think, I was a glint in my father's eye.


----------



## Norman

We need 336i vs. 332 comparisons! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dang.. I can't decide which one to get. I've only briefly heard the 336i in Hong Kong and I regret not getting it since it was so damn cheap ($240USD).
 I'm glad I didn't rush to get the 336i now since the 332 is here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 336i or 332!? 332 or 336i?!


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Norman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_We need 336i vs. 332 comparisons! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dang.. I can't decide which one to get. I've only briefly heard the 336i in Hong Kong and I regret not getting it since it was so damn cheap ($240USD).
 I'm glad I didn't rush to get the 336i now since the 332 is here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 336i or 332!? 332 or 336i?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I had the 336i before I decided to upgrade to 332 so I did not have a direct conparation but I can say that I would be happy with either one. If money is a problem then 336i I would get. As I recall, there were some improvement in soundstage and lower bass, but I'm not sure if that's enough to warrant a $150 increase in price, IMHO certainly.


----------



## Godkin

Like JamesP says, the differences between the 336i and the 332 would probably be very subtle, and could only be discerned over an extended listening period. Is it worth the extra cash? For me, yes. But for others, the slight differences - deeper bass, slightly more openess, better treble - would not be worth it.

 All I know is, that the 332 blew my modded X-CAN V3 out off the water. But when I say that, I'm talking not about stunningly obvious differences, but subtleties which together made a better sound.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Like JamesP says, the differences between the 336i and the 332 would probably be very subtle, and could only be discerned over an extended listening period. Is it worth the extra cash? For me, yes. But for others, the slight differences - deeper bass, slightly more openess, better treble - would not be worth it.

 All I know is, that the 332 blew my modded X-CAN V3 out off the water. But when I say that, I'm talking not about stunningly obvious differences, but subtleties which together made a better sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Godkin,

 I agree with you about the subtleties make better sound. I love my 332 and probably wouldn't trade for anything except for may be RSA B-52


----------



## Godkin

JamesP, I'd rather have a leg cut off than lose my 332. Maybe that's an exaggeration, but I love my it. When you listen to it (with the right tubes), you realise that before getting your 332 you weren't listening to the music at all - whole threads of the music you'd never heard before are revealed. It constantly makes me smile, as you trawl through your CD collection. 

 I said when I first reviewed this amp, that I wouldn't be buying any more overpriced, overhyped British headphone amps, and everyday that goes by with the 332, I'm more resolved than ever to do just that.

 PS You guys in the States sure knew how to make a good tube - this RCA 5654s sound superb!!!


----------



## Norman

Thanks for the replies Godkin and jamesp

 So I assume when you guys talking about a slight increase in bass, soundstage and trebles you are referring to the 332, right?

 I've yet to find out the price for the 332, if the price is right I just might have to fork out for one.


----------



## Godkin

JamesP is the man with the experience, having both the 336i and the 332. There are a number of places to buy the 332. I bought mine on E-Bay for 200 British pounds (plus delivery), and it came from Hong Kong. There's also a shop on E-Bay selling them for 399 USD, but they are located in France. I think you'd be better buying one from Hong Kong, or there is a seller in Malaysia, keep postages costs to New Zealand down. 

 e-mail: davis(.a.t.)japan(.d.o.t.)com


----------



## jamesp

I sold the 336i and then bought the 332. In the beginning, I thought for sure I made a mistake, but as time go by and after about 50 hours it start to improve, then with different tubes rolled in it began to get better. I have about 100 hours, a pair of M8100 and a pair of Russian 6S19P-V in it now and it is perfect.


----------



## Worldphoto1970

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WorldPhoto1970,

 If your 332 is still lacking "space and depth"_

 

Thanks a lot for the hints, anyway I finally got the first set of 8 russian tubes (the big one: 6S19P). As the postman rang I was listening to 332, yet I reached downstair *really*fast* and as soon he handled me the envelope, I was halfway up. I simply can't wait, so I removed every connection from 332, put some owen gloves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on and removed the original tubes. Then I opened the envelope and some siberian wind blow out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , I have also to remove some snow and ice from the tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but can't wait the same and plugged the below zero tubes in 332.

 Now to few serious lines: russian 6S19P are curiously shorter than original tubes, still they are heavier and from what I saw from a close look to the inside part, better built. Depth improved from the very first moment (sorry, I can't recall the cd), not dramatically, but it was sensible enough to allow me to catch the change. At present I'm at no more than 10 hours burning, I'll repeat ASAP the test I already runned, then I'll wrote my thoughts about it.


----------



## Godkin

Good on you, WorldPhoto1970. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 6S19Ps you have, are they SVETLANAs? My SVETs are shorter than the stock tubes in my 332. You'll know if they are SVETs if they are marked with a circle, usually in purplish-blue, with the 6S19P written inside it. If they have an white arrow pointing up the valve then they are Ulyanovsk made tubes. But you're absolutely right, they're definately heavier and better built - as they should be.

 I ask because there are a few sellers out there how don't seem to know the difference. I bought what I thought were 6AK5Ws, an American designation, but they actually turned out to be Soviet 6J1P-EVs. No problem as I wanted them anyway. I now see they are selling supposedly SVETLANA valves, while in actual fact they are Ulyanovsks. 

 What about the smaller output tubes, thought anything about them? I changed the stock 6J1s, first to MULLARD M8100s, then a few days ago to RCA 5654/6AK5Ws. Replacing these tubes makes a big improvement to the sound. Try nearly anything as anything is better than the stock 6J1s. Prices have jumped, no doubt sellers are catching on to the recent clamour for these small tubes, but you can still pick them up at a good price.


----------



## Worldphoto1970

They're SVETs, bluishly/purple/circle labeled.

 About smaller tubes: I'm waiting for 6J1P from Russia, but delivery is REALLY slow. I ordered big and small same day, almost one month ago, and I just got the big ones (by the way, am I wrong or there are not many options on these?). Custom is really something... I experienced a 3 months delivery delay one time. Poor seller, I really gave him hard time cause I can't believe such delay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With time I'll get MULLARD and RCA.

 Now a small listening update (I left it burning all morning long): just put on a '68 MPS recording, a german label of F-A-N-A-T-I-C-S about recordings. It's Oscar Petersons's "Exclusively for my friends" boxset, 4 cd's of wonderfull jazz trio music.

 Well, you DO NOT have idea, it's like I have this great players here in my room. I'm wondering if it's really time to retire the Pioneer player at this point, the Nad 542 appeal a lot to me, I renounce to Cambridge Audio 'cause I heard about mechanics affidability problems about them.


----------



## Godkin

That's a damn disgrace - you shouldn't have to wait that long for tubes. The ones I ordered from Russia took about ten days. Although I had to wait for the 6J1P-EVs for about a month. Just not good enough!!!

 The SVETs are brilliant valves. Very open and atmospheric - you actually get the feeling that you're in the room with the musicians and singers. The blue circle also suggests that there're New Old Stock (NOS), probably early 1980s. Try to get your hands on the "P-B" version - this should be even better. 

 The Ulyanovsk made tubes are brilliant as well, maybe a bit less "atmospheric", but more detail, and the separation of instruments is a little better. 
 The 6J1Ps should also make an improvement. But do get yourself some of the western equivalents, preferably the mil-spec versions: 6AK5Ws, 5654Ws or 5654SQs, the CV4010s, and M8100s. Truly, these make a great difference. The RCAs are, to my ears, the best so far.


----------



## LifesGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's a damn disgrace - you shouldn't have to wait that long for tubes. The ones I ordered from Russia took about ten days. Although I had to wait for the 6J1P-EVs for about a month. Just not good enough!!!
_

 

Godkin, 
 How are those 6J1P-EVs compared to the M8100s or the RCA tubes (6AK5Ws I supposed)?

 By the way, just got my darkvoice 332 about 3 weeks ago.


----------



## Godkin

The 6J1P-EVs are very good, a good deal better than the stock 6J1s. Very crisp, open, good timbre to the instruments. I'd say they're about as good as the MULLARD EF95s, with perhaps less of the sweetness. So far, the M8100s and the RCA 5654/6AK5Ws are, in my opinion, the best, although I know some of the contributers on this thread are going to try tubes from SYLVANIA and RAYTHEON. LifesGood, If you want to get the best out of your 332 get some of these little beauties.

 If you've got your 332 for 3 weeks now, you should've a good impression of the amps strengths and weaknesses, namely the rather harsh, glassy top-end. Try to get you hands on some good quality alternatives. You've probably read about the high quality Russian alternatives to the stock 6S19s - the 6S19P, 6S19P-B and 6S19P-V. 

 By the way, I've been trying to find western equivalents to the 6S19P. I so nearly found one - the GE7233. But the last two of the nine pins would need to be reversed. Damn!!! However, the search continues.


----------



## budgetphile

I have managed to have a little play with the DarkVoice today, using the tubes I recently received, my initial impressions are as follow:

 Generic Russian 6J1: Sounds better than the standard Chinese tubes, but do lack colour.

 Mullard 8100: sweet full bodies sound.

 Sylvania 6AK5W: Slightly better sounding than the Mullards.

 Selectron EF95: nice sound to them, nearly as good as the Mullards.

 Svetlana 6S19P-V: Again, a vast improvement on the stock Chinese tubes.

 Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V: are an improvement on the Svetlanas, with the limited tube replacements available for the 6S19P tube, I agree with Godkin that the Ulyanovsks are the best there are.

 I also have on order some expensive vintage mid 40's 6AK5 Hytrons, which I am expecting to receive sometime next week.

 One problem I've had with tube rolling is a constant hum that does not seem to be affected by the volume level when using some tubes, I suspect due to the AC heater supply interference since it disappears when the amp is turned off, (different tubes from the same manufacturer have different behaviour in this regard, some hum and some don't). I have been in touch which an old timer on this forum, who has better experience in tube matters, hopefully he will be able to recommend a cheap and easy capacitator mod that should clear this issue.

 The more I listen to the 332 the more convinced I am that it certainly is as good sounding, if not better sounding, than designer tube amps that are sold for more than twice what the 332 is going for.

 If sound quality is your main priority, and the "you won't believe how much I spent on my gear" brag factor doesn't mean much to you, the 332 is the way to go.


----------



## Godkin

Interested to see your thoughts on the SYLVANIAs. Must try and get my hands on a pair. If you ever come across the RCA JRC 5654/6AK5Ws (black-plates), grab them, they are simply fantastic in the 332. Can't wait to read your opinions on the 1940s HYTRONS. If the old adage is true - that older valves are generally superior to newer ones - then you're in for a real threat.


----------



## MaloS

Lurking over your guy's thread since start...damn temptation - waiting for Alex Zhou (ebay Chinese seller, 400 USD although I do not know where he will ship apart from USA, UK, and Continental Europe) to ship me a 332.

 For those of you having issues with shipping from Russia - have some pity, even if the seller ships same 10 minutes that you paid, you still could get a month delay due to postal practices in Russia. (Best bet is Fedex, for which I justify them to charge you plentiful shipping as its tidy bit expensive there, and in the end, it still can get delayed, although 2 weeks is better than 1 month). If the seller only has access to regular postal service, all bets are off, you will get the item, but when is at question. (Sorry, I lived there for a while, had to send some things back and forth between myself and grandparents, we generally try to send packages with acquaintances who are going one way or the other now).


----------



## Godkin

Welcome, Malos. Good to see another member of the 332 club. Truly, you won't be disappointed. What cans do you have?

 The stock tubes are 2X6J1s (Chinese) and 2X6S19s (also Chinese). Listen to them for a while, just to get the feel of things, then whip them out, pronto. Change to something better - no much choice on the power valves, but the choice you have a very good. My personal choice are the Ulyanovsk made 6S19P-Vs. But if you've been "lurking" for a while you'll probably already know that.

 Plenty of choice on the smaller output tubes. My favourites are the RCA 5654/6AK5Ws (black-plates) and the MULLARD M8100s (black-plates). Plenty of potential for tube rolling. Budgetphile recommends the SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws, which I must try myself. There's tons of others as well - RAYTHEON, GE, SIEMENS, TUNG-SOL, JAN PHILIPS, the list goes on.


----------



## MaloS

I currently own hd595, 50 ohms. The plan was to do exactly what you said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I might go and change headphones to something with higher impedance later on though. One thing that I did not really notice while reading through is how do you guys note individual tubes by sound coloration? Or is there any real difference in such a subject?


----------



## Godkin

The 332 does work better with higher impedance cans. Certain guys I've talked to say the output stage is designed with higher impedance types in mind. I've actually heard that SENNHEISER HD650s were used by DARKVOICE in the production of the 332. Personally, I'd get myself higher impedance cans like the HD580s, HD600s or HD650s, or even some BEYERDYNAMIC cans.

 I suppose all tubes "colour" the music in some way. The question is, can you live with the way they present the music. The most uncoloured I've heard are the Russian mil-spec 6J1P-EV. The MULLARDs have a lovely warmth to them, but the bass is very deep and solid, the midrange open and top-end detailed and sweet. The RCAs are pretty much the same, but they lack some of the sweetness of the MULLARDS, and, to my ears, are more crisp and forward.


----------



## jamesp

Some Mullard M8100 came today from England...I will give ti a try tonight when I have time and report back...base on what I read here, I'm certain that it would be great


----------



## Godkin

Last night I dreamt I was in heaven.





 DARKVOICE nirvana.


----------



## Norman

That is HOT.


----------



## MaloS

all thats missing is dt880, k701, hd650, w5000 plugged into them...that picture is beautiful.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Last night I dreamt I was in heaven.





 DARKVOICE nirvana. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great Picture, but do you think they are burning them in with no resistance......?

 USG


----------



## minden

After some delay (not due to seller, he even offered to split customs charge if that was the hold up, thankfully no customs duty charged) my 332 has arrived.





 Will let you know my feelings as we get to know each other, I am looking forward to comparing it to the uber neutal Corda and trying out my HD650, DT880, AT900, HF-1 and soon to arrive 325i.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Love the glow........


----------



## laxx

Too bad you don't have K701. I'd love to hear what you have to say about that combo, but a review with the dt880 and a900 would be great.


----------



## MaloS

Does anyone have anything to say for the k701 and dv332?


----------



## minden

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too bad you don't have K701. I'd love to hear what you have to say about that combo, but a review with the dt880 and a900 would be great._

 

I think everyone agrees that the 332 and the HD650 are well suited and they were the first combination I tried. But at the moment the amp has impressed me most partnered with the DT880. I have been neglecting the DT880 for the last month and mostly switching between HD650 and HF-1 but not anymore.

 The Darkvoice seems to both smooth the treble out and pump up the bass of the DT880, with the Aria it can be a little bit treble centric and bass shy, with the 332 it excels. I am not saying I enjoy it more on the 332 than the HD650 but it has improved more with the Darkvoice than the HD650 has (note the HD650 loves the Arias crisp delivery).

 Have not tried the AT900 yet.


----------



## laxx

That's good to hear. I found the dt880's with the Aria a bit too overwhelming in the treble area and not have enough bass. I originally wanted a DV336i, but the 332 looks nicer, lol.


----------



## Godkin

I must say, if I was going to buy a pair of cans tomorrow it would be the K701s. But being lower impedance cans, I wonder how it would sound with the 332? Good to hear the Beyers are great with the 332.


----------



## MaloS

They are low impedance but quite power-hungry, no?


----------



## LifesGood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have anything to say for the k701 and dv332?_

 

I just got both of my darkvoice 332 & K701 about 4 weeks ago. Can't help you much there since I still need big time burning, especially for the K701 (heard it would take somewhere around 500 to 600 Hrs for it to be completely burned in). But what I could say it sounded a lot better (much bigger sound stage, lot more detail in the mids and much crisper in the highs) than using my Nakamichi receiver headphone output, which may not have the juice to push the K701. The lows are punchy but not as deep as I like but I got some power tubes and output tubes on order.


----------



## MaloS

Well your judgment on 300 hours on k701 would be great =], its first of all great to hear that dv 332 is doing a great job driving them. Do you find them sounding musical? (whatever that term means to you).


----------



## SteveM324

I'm thinking of ordering the Darkvoice 332. Where can I order it in the USA? Is E-bay the only source for this amp?


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SteveM324* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking of ordering the Darkvoice 332. Where can I order it in the USA? Is E-bay the only source for this amp?_

 

e-bay or Hong Kong or Malaysia...


----------



## MaloS

e-bay has a nice deal running for it, 400 bucks seems pretty good...or you can try and get a better bargain through make-offer xD


----------



## spacemanspliff

dude for 400 that's a steal. it is a great amp.


----------



## MaloS

Well, just got mine.
 Right off the bat I can hear great boost to the bass in my hd595, something it's been missing for a while. Otherwise gonna let it sink in now =]


----------



## minden

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, just got mine.
 Right off the bat I can hear great boost to the bass in my hd595, something it's been missing for a while. Otherwise gonna let it sink in now =]_

 

Congratulations, now follow your own advice and get hold of a K701 or DT880. You know it makes sense.


----------



## MaloS

Lol, tschhhh. I am saving that for later, first gotta do all that can be done with the Darkvoice 332. (this hobby holds upon stretching out the time with each component in order to hear all the new things whenever upgrading - upgrade too fast and it quickly runs out of itself, as well as your wallet).
 xD

 But, a thing my ear is picking up is that while the sound is very very good, its a bit on the thick side, some specific sounds do not come through quite as ringing and fragile as they should. Tubes I am guessing... (one tube also produces ac hum in the right channel, noticeable without music). I'll give it time to settle in and burn-in then start ebaying again xD


----------



## Godkin

The 332 takes an age to burn in: at least a couple of hundred hours. My initial impressions: harsh and brittle top-end, slightly lumpy and congested. But it opens up and smooths out as it runs in. Higher quality tubes are the answer, and basically anything is better than the stock 6J1s. Awful tubes. Strange how they can build an amp as good as the 332 yet they can't build good, audio quality tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there has been any experience of hum emanating from the stock 332, not on this froum anyway. There has been some experience of hum during tube rolling. This may go away as the amp burns in. But replace the stock tubes and really hear the 332 sing.


----------



## MaloS

Hum is getting quieter pretty quickly as I am letting it run, so thats cool.
 Any comments on Svetlana 6S19P-V tubes? (military stock).

 I also tried to find some of the black-plates u mentioned - hard to find :-/
 Looking around at other options for the moment. (siemens tubes go pretty cheap for the preamp tubes, should I? xD)


----------



## MaloS

Gah I prolly should read more but in general, what tubes can I and what can't I use?


----------



## Godkin

The Svetlana Tubes are very good, a big improvement over the standard 6S19s. There're very "valvey" - bags of presence, open and warm with plenty of detail. The Ulyanovsk version of the 6S19P-Vs is better: bit less warm, more detail with great separation. There's no real choice in this area, apart from these two brands - either the 6S19P or the better quality 6S19P-Bs.

 Basically, any of the smaller, output tubes is better than the 6J1s. The Russian equivalents are always good to try - 6J1P or the 6J1P-EV. The western equivalents are also excellent. Try 5654s, add a "W" or "SQ" for special quality mil-spec versions. Black Plates are usually military valves with very durable, low corrosion plates. Then there's the 6AK5, again add "W" for higher quality version. The MULLARD M8100s are superb, which is a mil-spec version of the EF95; there's also a EF95F. Other British mil-spec types have the prefix "CV" meaning Commom Valve. Try CV4010 or CV850. Other types are 6F32 and 403A, but personally I've not come across them.

 Haven't heard the SIEMENS, but judging by tubes I've heard in the past they should be excellent.


----------



## pftrvlr

How does the Darkvoice campare with WooAudio?


----------



## jmmtn4aj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_e-bay has a nice deal running for it, 400 bucks seems pretty good...or you can try and get a better bargain through make-offer xD_

 

Eh, I heard it was the shipping that kills the prices of these Darkvoice amps. How heavy is the 332?


----------



## MaloS

6 pounds or so. Shipping is 80 bucks cause they ship via air, it seems to be a common thing amongst all Chinese sellers. (not sure why).

 So far it is still definitely worth it, its pleasant from the start and slowly opening up as I left it overnight to burn in. Did not get the harsh highs others mentioned (although hd595 is rather mellow about things).

 Thanks for the excellent reply Godkin.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there has been any experience of hum emanating from the stock 332, not on this froum anyway. There has been some experience of hum during tube rolling. This may go away as the amp burns in. But replace the stock tubes and really hear the 332 sing._

 

As for me, when I have no music running through and if I turn the volume up pass 9 o'clock position, I can hear the hum. Not sure if it is just mine or have others experience the same thing. Anyway, at that position, it is way beyond my listening level so it never bother me.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamesp* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As for me, when I have no music running through and if I turn the volume up pass 9 o'clock position, I can hear the hum. Not sure if it is just mine or have others experience the same thing. Anyway, at that position, it is way beyond my listening level so it never bother me._

 

Hrm, mine is volume ignorant, same at 7, 9, 12... ( I am guessing yours is the preamp tube while mine is the power tube).


----------



## MaloS

Gah...ebay is not very friendly when it comes to 6S19Ps...there is a few, but they are sold in batches, and on top of that they are without any measurements. (And I don't have a tube tester obviously...might have to go scout the EE building in my University for one). What do you think, 8 Svetlanas 6S19P-Vs for $19, new. Chances I'll get at least 1 matched pair?


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hrm, mine is volume ignorant, same at 7, 9, 12... ( I am guessing yours is the preamp tube while mine is the power tube)._

 

lol....pardon my ignorant but what's a different between the preamp and power amp tubes?


----------



## pftrvlr

My tube amp sometime picks up radio broadcast. I guess it is from X10 through power line. It is so low, it does not bother me that much. But I still want to get rid of it someday somehow.


----------



## Godkin

Yeah, they seem to sell these tubes in large batches. I think it's because they buy them, obviously from military sources, in bulk.

 Personally, I don't think exact matching of tubes in a headphone amp is that crucial. The SVETLANA and Ulyanovsk 6S19P-Vs or Bs are military spec, and as such are made to very stringant tolerances. The differences between any two tubes would be very slight and certainly not audible. Any tubes I've fitted to the 332, which are, technically, not matched, have worked perfectly well.

 The 6S19Ps are, to my knowledge, power rectifiers. The smaller tubes, originally used in Ham Radios, are signal amplifiers.


----------



## MaloS

jamesp:
 well in headphone amp case its not really important, generally preamp tubes pick up the signal and color it while the power amp tubes bring it up to snuff. (this is the way its done in guitar amps).
 I am just using this terminology here since preamp tubes are small, power tubes are large, so we get excellent way to refer to things on the 332 =]. In reference to hum: if its in the preamp stage, the power stage will amplify it, and that part is controlled by the volume knob, if its in the power amp stage, its probably not going to be amplified since its usually present after the gain section. 

 pftr: I'd try one of those surge protectors with built in noise cleaners, I am waiting for one to arrive to try ^.^ (they are supposed to help out the low end too, making it more controlled and extended 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).

 Godkin: cool thanks for that suggestion...mebe I'll start looking for matched tubes then =]. 

 So anyone want to split some Svetlanas with me? Ima grab 8 6S19P-Vs.


----------



## Godkin

Aa Malos says, an origin of the hum could be a "dirty" mains source. Try a mains conditioner and a better mains cable. Another cause of hum can be the positioning of inconnects: are important cables, especially digital cables, placed next to a power cord? Of course, it could always be a duff tube, either rectifying or signal. 

 There appears to be more hum related problems associated with the 336 than the 332. In the case of the 336, hum can be alleviated by the fitting of cathode bypassing caps.


----------



## Banach

Does anyone know why 332 is provided with valve caps for hum reduction and 336i is not (I assume so)? From the last message there are seemingly more hum issues with 336i than with 332. Isn't it a bit paradoxical?

 PS Thanks jamesp and godkin for your honesty in stressing the subtlety in diferences about 332 and 336i, it is not a common practice among head-fiers and it can help others to save a good money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 PSII. I would appreciate if someone can post pics of the 332 in dark so I can see the glow of the valves (the look is quite important to me in a valve amp and from the pics I have seen it seems as if 336i glows more intensely than 332)


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


 I would appreciate if someone can post pics of the 332 in dark so I can see the glow of the valves 
 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...=204071&page=8
 about the middle of the page. although its not in very dark situation.

  Quote:


 Does anyone know why 332 is provided with valve caps for hum reduction and 336i is not (I assume so)? 
 

Those are heatsinks.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Banach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS Thanks jamesp and godkin for your honesty in stressing the subtlety in diferences about 332 and 336i, it is not a common practice among head-fiers and it can help others to save a good money. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm just glad to be able to contribute something as this forum have helped me a lot in my journey to find a perfect headphone/amp combo, well I guess you could look at it differently as it cost me much more than I anticipated
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## pftrvlr

I am not planning to buy the Darkvoice right now, I have bought three headphone amps during the past two months. But I enjoy reading the posts.


----------



## Banach

Thanks malos for the pics (I had already seen those). Yet I would like to see the 332 running on in full dark; could someone post a few nice pics before falling asleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Banach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks malos for the pics (I had already seen those). Yet I would like to see the 332 running on in full dark; could someone post a few nice pics before falling asleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?_

 

I will try tonight just you you buddy....


----------



## MaloS

I ran it in the dark...warm but not firey. (visually). (and temperature-vise).

 Sometimes I wish these things would pulse or something, that would make for excellent feeling of music being alive.

 Oh well, got some Svetlanas (power) an RCAs (pre) on the way, fun fun


----------



## Banach

Thanks jamesp I will be looking forward to those pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Concerning the heatsinks, malos, I thought the covers were related somehow to reduce the hum (or at least this is what I understood from some of the posts above), so the question is: is there hum or not (other than the usual period for new valves).
 Thanks


----------



## Godkin

Banach, here's some pics of mine. Enjoy!!!


----------



## jamesp

Thanks Godkin...save me from having to wear a photographers hat tonight
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .


----------



## MaloS

Mine has hum, and I would be surprized if it is not tube related (I'll get some fresh ones soon and we will see). The hum is at pretty low floor, it is only audible without music playing.
 Heatsinks are there solely to increase lifetime of the tubes. From the posts above - there are some solutions for hum if it is bothersome with some microphonic tube - popular one is dampeners, simple and straightforward. There are also combinations of heatsinks and dampeners, and some other stuff, so if it is an issue with some tubes there are cheap and simple solutions.


----------



## Godkin

Yeah, Malos, sounds like a "duff" tube. The noise seems to be a low level background hum. When the get the new tubes change them around and see were the problem is coming from. Those SHUGUANG 6J1s are rubbish.


----------



## MaloS

Its ironic how even though the tubes are rubbish, the amp still granted me exactly what I wanted to hear as an improvement from hd595, although airiness was lost a lil, all hopes on new tubes. My current objective headphone is known to be on the thinner/airier side though, this should be a very interesting combination.

 Honestly I can now see why select few people recommend trying high end amplification with hd595 before sending them off as not as good of a headphone as other Senns.


----------



## Banach

Thanks for the pics godkin. I certainly want to enter the valve world (never listened to a valve amp before) and you guys made me crave for one of these two models. The problem is which one I should choose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. On the one hand I love the 332 look, on the other hand I perhaps should start with the lower model to find out if I like the valve sound (something I don't know yet) and possibly upgrade later. What I primarily want is to get a different taste from solid state and I assume that 336i should be enough for that purpose. Do you agree?


----------



## MaloS

Ya of course, blame us for the cravings... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man oh man, the soundstage and subtle positioning this thing outputs through my hd595, <3.

 Btw, got my power conditioner, put it in the line. The hum did not go away, but changed in its nature. It was rather bassy before, pure 60 hz, now it seems to be like one octave up and bit quieter. O.o


----------



## Godkin

Malos, I think you said you've got RCAs and SVETLANAs on the way. That should be a perfect combination. The "valveiness" of the Svets, open and full of ambience, with the crispness of the RCAs. Heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Banach, I'm the type of guy who has to go for the biggest and best in any given range of audio gear. It's one of my many failings. If I didn't, I'd always be wondering how different, and potentially better, the 332 was over the 336i. At the moment, I wondering how much better the 337 would be over the 332. 

 Also, for me, there's the "failings" of the 336i to be taken into account - mainly hum during the process of tube rolling. But from what I've read, the 336i is very "valvey" - warm, fluid and open, especially if you get the right tubes onboard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A good introduction to the tube sound.


----------



## Banach

WorldPhoto1970: are you definitely happy about those depth issues after you replaced valves or you still miss something?


----------



## Godkin

The world of tube rolling with the 332 has now become even more bewildering - if that's possible. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's a whole new set of western equivalents for the 6J1s. Firstly, the British Common Valves (CV): CV5216; CV8246; CV5893; CV10442; CV8225; and CV8159. Then there're some others: EF905; 6096; E95F; and 6F32. 

 This is only a provisional list - I have to check the technical data in more detail. But if they turn out to be true equivalents, then the possibilities have expanded quite a bit.


----------



## MaloS

OO, I like that, I noticed quite a bit of CVs available on e-bay. I have a very hard time finding some Mullards >.<


----------



## Godkin

Take the EF905 off the list - technically different. The rest seem good, and add CV2020, CV0850, 5591, 6096, 6945, DP61 and 6DL5. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Malos, MULLARDS are getting harder to find, but most of the above "CV" prefixed tubes are made by MULLARD.


----------



## MaloS

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...&fsop=1&fsoo=1

 O.o


----------



## Godkin

Malos, try these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-PHILIPS-M810...QQcmdZViewItem

 Also Valves Direct on E-Bay are selling pairs of MULLARD CV4010s for £3.50 (about $7.00). Two pairs left (I bought one) so grab them while you can!!!


----------



## budgetphile

The hum I experienced with some tubes have completely disappeared after a few hours of use, I cannot hear any hum even when the volume knob is turned to max. I guess some tubes require break in.

 There seems to be a lot of demand for the Mullard tubes lately, and their prices have shot up accordingly, if you go through the posts in this thread you'll find that there are some tubes out there that sound as good, and some that even sound better than the Mullards for a lot less money.

 My Hytron tubes seem to have been lost in transit, I am awaiting a new dispatch from the seller.

 Meanwhile I've been busy trying to source reasonably priced components to make silver wire interconnects, I will be applying the Eichmann principle of 1.4 ratio between signal and cold, I have managed to source AWG30 and AWG28 fine silver wire, and unbleached cotton tubing (from searching the net this combination seems to be the most favoured), this setup should sound out of this world with the 332


----------



## Godkin

Budgetphile, I bought a pair of MULLARD CV4010 last night for £3.50 (plus delivery). Try these - their direct equivalent is the M8100. Sorry to hear the Hytrons have gone walk-about. Hopefully, they'll turn up soon. Did you buy them off E-Bay? 

 Would be interested to see if your experiments with the silver cabling turns out well. Sounds very promising. One guy who knows a lot about cables, especially silver cables, is Zanash - he frequently posts on Zerogain. Maybe he could help.


----------



## budgetphile

Hi Godkin,

 I have four Mullard 8100 black plates, yet I found the Sylvania 6AK5W to sound better in the 332, and they are cheaper.

 I bought the Hytrons off ebay, and I have been in touch with the seller, he is sorting it out.

 Another thing, loose the rubber feet on the 332, all rubber feet are useless at getting rid of vibrations, all they do is magnify the vibration within whatever you are isolating, I have replaced them with three small wood cubes, I placed two cubes at either end of the back underside, and a single cube under the middle of the front underside of the 332, much better at removing mechanical vibrations than the rubber feet, and way cheaper than buying fancy brass balls


----------



## MaloS

Hrm...I grabbed the CV4010, les see how those are.

 Not gonna bid on m8100, people seem to be all over them already xD. I wonder if it is worth it to get a better interconnect between my DAC and DV, right now I am using stock cable that came with Echo Indigo, although tubing first.


----------



## Godkin

As soon as I'd written it, Budgetphile, I remembered you'd already commented on the M8100s and the SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws. Stupid me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 332's case seems to be very microphonic, so anything to help isolate it from vibrations is good in my books. I have mine sitting on a home-made isolation "stand" - a heavy granite cutting board from Argos set on three old isolation feet. But further isolation, I'm sure, couldn't do any harm.

 Having good quality interconnects, Malos, adds and enhances the sound of any system: but it can't make a bad system good. Personally, I swear by VAN DEN HUL cables, THE WELL Hybrid being one of my favourites. In addition, interconnects tends to degrade over time, so an old interconnect will not sound as good as a well used new one. Or maybe this is just a sales tactic by interconnect manufacturers, to keep us buying their products. Another conspiracy theory is born.

 Good to see you got a pair of those CV4010s. Their direct equivalents are the M8100 and CV850. Check the CV list: both were designed and manufactured by MULLARD for the British Ministry of Aviation (MIA).


----------



## Godkin

Has anyone heard of this version of the 6S19P tube - the 6C19P-BP, or its English designation, the 6S19P-VR? Don't know anything about it, apart from the fact that, technically, it's identical to the 6S19P. Obviously, it's an improved version, but how? And is it better than the P-V versions, or just the same tube with fancy new suffixes?


----------



## Godkin

My CV4010s arrived this morning, a batch made in Feburary 1966. Pristine condition, black-plates; I don't think they've seen the light of day since they were made. I'll try them tonight, and post any comments I may have.


----------



## Worldphoto1970

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Banach* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WorldPhoto1970: are you definitely happy about those depth issues after you replaced valves or you still miss something?_

 

Things are better since I replaced the power tubes, a significant, but not earthquaking change. Anyway a serious test is not yet on the table, hope I'll soon find some time for that.

 I finally received 10 signal tubes from Russia.
 I got some serious humming issue with the first couple I put in.
 There has always been a slightly humming sound on my 332 right channel (nothing at all on the left), but very light and absolutely not serious. As soon as I put on replacements it became a real problem. Tried to change one tube and things went quieter than with originals.

 I can't really add something else, cause I lately had few available time for listening (and also for reading the forum, sorry for this late reply).


----------



## finhurley

Guys, Maybe a little off topic, but i have been lurking here for almost the entire thread as i am trying to figure out what to get for my first tube amp. But i am still wonder what the, or how much difference there is between the 332 and the woo 3+ or woo 6 and if the cost of the woo might be worth it????

 Ideas/comments?

 i would also like to see a listing of the tubes that you guys have settled on in your 332's and why?


----------



## MaloS

I replaced my preamp tubes yesterday. No difference that is easy to pick-up, but I do feel like the bass is now where it should be (and I don't think its me getting used to the sound sig).

 Honestly I could forget about changing the other tubes and enjoy this sound for the rest of my time with phones =] (But I got some Svetlanas on the way, so hell, why not).

 No experience with the Woos, but I can highly recommend the Darkvoice 332. My current preamp tubes are JAN 5654, while power tubes are still stock, and I've nothing to complain about with the sound, everything is where I like it. I just wish I had more soundstage - but thats my phones.. xD (and this is coming from a person who heard Stax SR-404 through McAllister 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). (although we won't know until the head-fi meet, this amp might be synergetic with hd595)


----------



## Godkin

Sorry, like Malos, I haven't heard either the WOO AUDIO 3 or 6, but they are certainly very highly regarded in audio circles, so you can't go wrong there. Cost too there is not that much of a difference: the 332 retails at around £230 ($450) and the WOOs at £250 ($495) and £295 ($570). Both the 332 anf the WOOs are similar in design, by which I mean they are very simple designs. Component quality in both is also very good, although the WOO has a very nice ALPS pot.

 For the money, the 332 is a great little amp, and as you are already pretty familiar with this thread you will know our thoughts on that front. 

 Tube rolling is always a great way to alter and improve the sound of the 332, and I'm sure the same would be true of the WOOs (although the WOO 3's use of the 6922/6DJ8 is highly attractive because there are plenty of good quality alternatives out there). The rectifying tubes I've personally found good are either the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs or the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Vs. Not much choice there - which is both a good and a bad thing - but with the smaller signal tubes you are much better off. Basically, anything is better than the stock 6J1s, but my favourites are the the MULLARD M8100s, the RCA 5654/6AK5Ws, the MULLARD EF95s, and at the minute I'm running in a pair of MULLARD CV4010s - basically the same tube as the M8100 but made for the British military. Others contributers recommend the SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws and the RAYTHEON RASCALS 5654. In the end, it comes down to personal preferences - like everything audio then.


----------



## MaloS

how are the CV versions of the Mullard 4010s btw?
 (still waiting for mine to arrive, shipped from UK to US)...

 I need a bigger headphone, hd595 is excellent but curiosity is a never-ending curse of a head-fier. k701 or w5000 on the radar xD


----------



## Godkin

The MULLARD/PHILIPS M8100 is the more durable, better engineered version of the EF95: both are commerical tubes made for commerical purposes. The CV4010 is truly military valve, designed specifically for the British Ministry of Aviation (BMA), which in todays world is the Ministry of Defence and the RAF. Basically, both the same tube, just one is a commerical valve, the other military. 

 I think you ordered from the same people as me, Malos. Obviously, mine have already arrived as I live in the UK. They sound really good - up there with the very best. They are also in pristine conditon. Mine come from a batch made in Feburary 1966.

 I personally am drawn towards the K701s. I've heard great things about them. Another set of cans I've heard good things about are the modestly priced GOLDRING DR-150s (£60). Be interesting to see how another set of lower impedance cans sound with the 332.


----------



## MaloS

Seems like we are in the same boat of curiosity about what exactly 332 can do =] I am really tempted by the woody/liquid sound texture of w5000


----------



## Godkin

If your minds set on the W5000s, then go for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll hang back a while on the K701s - cash is being seriously diverted into a house extension.

 Have you ever thought about any of the BEYER cans? I've heard they are very good with the 332.


----------



## MaloS

yes..waiting for the meet ^.^


----------



## finhurley

Well guys you did it. i'm waiting for a response to my offer to jasmin chine. I think that i will order some 8100's up right away. Has anyone seen anybody selling the 6S19P-Vs in quantities less than 8-10?? or do we want that many to find a good pair?

 tell me if this is impossible or stupid. I really want to mod the case front and make a wood front panel. Does the front come off and can anyone think of a reason to not do it?

 i'm also waiting on some k701's. Northern sound is backordered, but cheap. anyone heard of anybody who is similar pricing but maybe in stock?


----------



## MaloS

How much is Northern? I inquired with them but got no response yet (it was today so >.<)

 I could not find the tubes you mention in smaller numbers, but I did order my portion (8 O.o), I can share. (Svetlanas xD, did not arrive yet though)


----------



## finhurley

244.50 I believe. They are hoping to get more in by March 15th, but they did not sound really confident.


----------



## MaloS

I can find 270 as next closest, one head-fier trying to sell his for 265 (lil does he know about northern lol)


----------



## laxx

There's a seller on eBay that allows Best Offer. If you send him an email and tell him that NS&L has them for $244, he'll tell you that he can't beat the price, but he can match it. It's a store located in California, though I forgot the name of the seller.


----------



## MaloS

Going off-topic lol, its DV 332 here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Can't find the seller you are talking about + I live in California so I avoid buying in Cali cause of tax)


----------



## Godkin

It's a real pain the the arse selling tubes in these huge ammounts. I suppose the sellers would justify themselves by saying that they buy in bulk so they sell in bulk. My cupboards are bursting with the things. I think a good idea is for a few 332 owners to get together and buy for themselves.

 I've tried a few of these SVETLANA and ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs and I haven't got a bad match yet - no hum, no nothing. These essentially military tubes are made to very strict tolerances, and I don't think there is much chance of getting a really bad pair.

 Cosmetic mods are always good, but one persons beautiful is anothers persons ulgy. Personally, I'd like my 332 to be silver (I found out after buying my 332 that they'd made them in silver) with a nice, thick piece of brushed aluminium on the front.


----------



## MaloS

Amen, I'll try to disburse the extra tubes amongst head-fiers.

 Finding myself listening too loud alot with this amp just cause music is too awesome...k701 off the list, gotta look at closed options...


----------



## Godkin

These CV4010s are really good. Listening to Holst's "The Planets", especially the Jupiter movement, a bewilderingly complex piece of music, and the 332 with the CV4010 play it like I've never heard it before, with all the layers beautifully separated, and yet all together. This amp blows my old X-CAN V3 away. Fantastic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Finhurley, there's still one pair of the CV4010s on E-Bay for £3.50 ($7.00). There're exactly the same as the M8100s, black-plates and all, just a military version. Snap them up while you can - Malos and I have the other 2 pairs.


----------



## laxx

The 701's don't leak as much sound as the HD595's. =T Not even close.


----------



## finhurley

Godkin, I picked up 4 RCA JRC 5654/6AK5W's on ##ay today. They are NOS 50's-early 60's military RCA tubes. Any ideas on how those might sound compared to the ones you refered to?? How are the German tubes like they guy from Sweden has?

 My 701's are on the way and i'm ready to begin the 200-300 hrs of break in. The 332 should also be on its way.

 BTW i'm a newbie to the whole tube amp thing and will be asking lots of questions. may start a new thread on moding and tuberolling the 332.


----------



## MaloS

I don't even know what there is to mod in this device lol. Its solid, clean, and well matched. Just need those better power tubes here...


 Anyone think of any interesting cooling solutions? I am trying to come up with something aesthetically pleasing


----------



## Godkin

The RCAs I used are also the JRC 5654/6AK5Ws, a batch from November 1962. Superb tubes, one of my favourites: maybe less sweet than the MULLARD M8100s, but very crisp and slightly more forward in presentation. Did you see those CV4010s on E-Bay? Great price.

 Has Jasmine Chine accepted your offer? Great if she has. The 332 will soon be with you, and the tube rolling will begin.

 Certainly, a separate thread for modding is a possibility. Maybe those with lower impedance cans - like the Grados, K701s and W5000s - could fit higher capacitances in the output stage. Some have tried 220uF caps in the 336i with good results. The 332 output stage uses 2 huge SCR polyprops - 3uF/400v, which is just about perfect for SENNHEISER and other higher impedance types. More capacitance could also be fitted to the PSU stage, as could better quality resistors and bypass caps. Certainly, a better quality pot could be used - an ALPS maybe? And what about tube sockets? Transformers? The list goes on, but at what stage does it stop being the 332 you bought and loved?


----------



## MaloS

Hrm, I was under impression that auction was selling pairs of CV4010s >.<
 (I just got mine and it is 1?!... contacted the seller).

 Sucks.


----------



## Godkin

Malos, you've been done. The seller's advertises a "pair" of CV4010s - not one. I know because I read the auction blurb about 20 times to make sure I wasn't buying a single tube. And lo-and-behold when the tubes arrived there were two. 

 You're right to get onto the seller, and if you get no satisfaction for them get onto E-Bay - they must have breached some rule or other.


----------



## finhurley

malos, let me know if you have extra SVETLANA's when you get them. Godkin, i did pick up the cv4010's for the guy in th UK. we'll see how they sound compared to the RCA military spec ones i also have coming.

 Hopefully the 332 will get here next week if Jasmine ships it quick. I may try to build a power cord while i'm waiting. What are people using now?


----------



## Godkin

Finhurley, good to see you got that last pair of MULLARD CV4010s - really impressive tube. As I've said before, the CV4010s (M8100) and RCA JRC5654/6AK5Ws are two of my favourites, though both differ slightly in presentation: the CV4010s are sweeter sounding, very open with deep, solid bass; the RCAs are more crisp, bass similar to that of CV4010s, with vocals more to the fore. All and all, both fantastic valves.

 Jasmine Chine is usually very quick with delivery (I bought my 332 from her), but if you're States-Side I don't know how long it will take (to the UK 5 days).

 The 332 responds really well to a good power cord: the sound opens up much more and the top-end becomes less sharp and "shimmers" a bit more. I'm using the QED Conduit - great cable for the money (£35).


----------



## MaloS

States side delivery was as fast from Jasmine, thats where I got mine xD

 The seller of the cv4010s when I asked him about those replied that its a mix-up and he is going to send me another pair and I can keep the single I got. Thats cool, not gonna leave negative feedback if I get everything fine in the end.

 finhurley: 
 I have 6 extra Svetlanas lying around (just got em today). Quite nice, they are on the warmer side (my JAN 5654s are on the clinical side) so while 5654s produce the detail Svetlanas get onto delivering the punch. Let me know if you want a pair.


----------



## jamesp

about the hum I was getting before, I finally narrow it down to the IC. Now there are no hum what so ever. I hear nothing even at the max volumn.


----------



## MaloS

maybe I should get me a better one xD

 (new power tubes solved part of mine but i am getting some static that seems to be produced by the DAC, nothing I notice when listening to music but perfectionism ensues).


----------



## yrh0413

anyone pairing the 332 with K701?


----------



## MaloS

there was someone, but he was pretty quiet about about it >.<


----------



## finhurley

I will be soon. I'm waiting on delivery on both items and some tubes. It will be a couple of weeks until things are properly burned in, but i will give my opinions.


----------



## MaloS

The seller that accidentally sent me just 1 tube said he shipped me the second one from the pair and an extra pair of em as an apology. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think I am ready to accept it as such.

 And just a heads-up (one member already contacted me), I now have some extra Svetlanas for 6S19P-V tubes that I can share with some owners of the Darkvoice 332 =]


----------



## Godkin

Good to see you got everything sorted out, Malos. And a free set of CV4010s into the bargain. Fantastic.


----------



## HiFi FOR METAL

Hey MaloS, I am thinking of getting the 332. I want to listen to obviously some prog metal, do you think the 332 can mate well with the 32ohm cans I have or the akg 701's, will it A. Give so much headroom I won't have to turn the amp past 2, or B. Overdrive my Grado SR-80, and Sennheiser 485? I know you told me you have 50ohm cans what are your opinions for opeth. So, will there be headroom I can walk through or, overdrive city?


----------



## MaloS

It should do perfectly well for metal, I think rock/metal are this amp's strengths (at least when coupled with hd595).


----------



## cotdt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ran it in the dark...warm but not firey. (visually). (and temperature-vise).

 Sometimes I wish these things would pulse or something, that would make for excellent feeling of music being alive.

 Oh well, got some Svetlanas (power) an RCAs (pre) on the way, fun fun _

 

you can buy another one of these amps to power the LEDs under teh tubes. they will pulse.


----------



## budgetphile

Finally received all the ingredients, at a very reasonable price (I had to buy in bulk though), and made a pair of silver wire interconnects, the signal wire is made of AWG30, while the cold wire is made of AWG28.

 The only thing I can say is forget about tube rolling (not really, tube rolling is only half the story), simply switching to silver interconnects made my 332 sound experience go through my ear drums and straight to all the nerve center receptors in the brain... what an experience, I never thought that I was missing out on so much in what I listen to.

 The sound of the 332 with the silver interconnects is absolutely fantastic, I'm simply gob smacked that I cannot begin to think of the right adjectives to begin to describe what I am hearing, I changed back twice to my old expensive major brand interconnects, simply because I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

 So far, I hardly listened to ten minutes worth with my new interconnects, if wire burn-in is not a load of pork pie, then the sound can only get better, (if that is at all possible).

 What a revelation.

 I'm so excited and happy, that all of me is wagging, not just the tail.


----------



## jamesp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It should do perfectly well for metal, I think rock/metal are this amp's strengths (at least when coupled with hd595)._

 

I agree with you and I'm using HD-650, DT-990 (2005)


----------



## Godkin

Sounds great, Budgetphile. I think a few pics are in order, as well as the recipe for these interconnects, and were to buy the ingredients.


----------



## finhurley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The sound of the 332 with the silver interconnects is absolutely fantastic, I'm simply gob smacked that I cannot begin to think of the right adjectives to begin to describe what I am hearing, I changed back twice to my old expensive major brand interconnects, simply because I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

 clip

 What a revelation.










_

 


 I was equally hesitant about silver IC's. I bought a HGA IC kit a few years back and hooked it up to my Arcam cd33 and it was immediately noticeable. 

 I guess that my 332 arrived this morning so when i get home i will start to set up mine using my HGA IC's. 

 i second godkin's request for what you made.

 what are peoples recomendations for how long break-in is for a 332 and should i change out the chinese tubes before i even power it up?

 i think that i will DIY a new power cord for the 332 and the Arcam. i post if it makes a difference......i hope it has burned-in before i switch it so i can see if it makes a difference.


----------



## budgetphile

a quick run down, I will post pictures and links later on, ATM I got to attend to something that helps me earn a living 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 - Take two meters of PTFE Teflon tubing (1/4'' outside diameter, 1/8'' inside diameter), or whatever length you need, but remember the Teflon tube is fairly stiff, and not so bendy, this is important because you don't want a tube that will sag, you need to keep an equal distance between each of the interconnect cables once connected, this equal distance throughout will cut on interference, and stiff cables are great at that.

 - Cut above into two equal lengths (one meter each).

 - Grab a roll of plumber's tape (PTFE tape), wrap around twice around each one meter length of Teflon tube.

 - After wrapping Teflon tape onto Teflon tube, get a ruler and mark tube at 1 inch intervals.

 - wind AWG30 fine silver wire (signal) all the way around Teflon tube, make sure the wire goes over one one inch mark, and misses the next one inch mark all the way to the other end of the tube .

 - Make sure you leave enough length of silver wire for soldering onto RCA plugs.

 - Also make sure you mark the ends of this wire, by wrapping sticky tape on either end, or the like.

 - Once done with wrapping the first silver wire around the tube, wrap two rounds of plumber's tape over the whole length of the Teflon tubing for insulation, you don't want the hot and cold wires touching now do you?

 - The one inch marks, in between the marks that you laid the signal wire over, will be hardly visible now, make sure to mark them again.

 - Wrap the 28AWG silver wire (cold) over the inch marks that you missed the first time round.

 - Leave enough length on the silver wire for soldering.

 - Once done with wrapping the second silver wire, wrap plumber's tape twice over the whole length of the Teflon tubing.

 - Cut four pieces of about 1/2'' wide shrink wrap, and shrink over the edges of the two tubes, you need the shrink wrap for the RCA plugs to bite into without damaging the silver wires. 

 - Unscrew the RCA plugs of your choice, pass the back ends over the tube.

 - Attach the RCA plugs onto the tube.

 - Solder the thin AWG30 wire onto the middle bit of the RCA connector (signal).

 - Solder the thick silver wire to the outside of the RCA plug (cold).

 Note:
 (you'd be lucky to figure which silver wire is which, both wires are very thin and hardly distinguishable, make sure you mark them as you wrap them, or else you're stuffed).

 - Enjoy.

 I will post links to suppliers in a little while.


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## Godkin

Thanks, Budgetphile.

 Finhurley, the 332 takes a long time to burn in. DARKVOICE recommend about 50hrs, but I'd say more like 200hrs. I'd keep the Chinese tubes in, mainly to find out the 332's strengths and weaknesses, and to recognise the sonic improvements made by the better tubes.

 Happy listening.


----------



## finhurley

Well it is all here. 

 The 332. The 701's. All burning in. I am still running the chinese tubes right now and it does sound glassy. i'm surprised how good the bass is considering the 701's are not supposed to be that good out of the box and 332 should thighten up also. I am still running the stock power cord and i think that could be a weak spot still. I'm looking forward to trying cv4010's and RCA 6AK5W's this weekend.


----------



## budgetphile

In making the silver interconnects, I slightly modified the instructons (which appear in an earlier post) that appear on this page:

http://www.mejiatryti.com/SpeakerCab...erconnect.html

 I have used cheap Shark plugs that I bought from Maplin, I also have a set of expensive Eichmann Bullet plugs, I will make another set of interconnects using the Eichmann's over the weekend, I'll let you know how it goes.

 I have loads of material, I'll be happy to make anyone who wants a set of interconnects at cost, or send required lengths of tubing and silver wire. Private message me if you are interested.


----------



## Godkin

Good to see everything's arrived safely. I'd be interested to see you comments on the CV4010s and the RCA 5654/6AK5Ws. They're two of my personal favourites. Your initial impressions were very much my own - glassy top-end but very deep bass. The glassiness will wear off slightly, and the sound will open up. 

 I'd certainly be interested in a set of silver ICs, Budgetphile.


----------



## budgetphile

Godkin's silver interconnects:


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## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Godkin's silver interconnects:
 <evasion of giant pics in quotes>



_

 

That was fast...


 On the case of this amps strengths - rock/metal, I actually did a few back-to-back comparisons of the Darkvoice (with new tubes) and my Porta Corda. Porta Corda, being a tiny portable amp running off a 9v power supply - has more resolution/detail through hd595. That is the only advantage it has (smaller soundstage, bit drier sound), but for music that is good with detail it seems to do better.

 I am waiting for ath-w5000 to arrive, if I get similar results with that combination I might swap the DV for solidstate... (something more impressive though, corda aria anyone? xD)


----------



## budgetphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That was fast..._

 

Fast?!?!

 It took me three days to finish them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, it takes me about six hours to make a pair, it's the winding of the Teflon tape that does my head in


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fast?!?!

 It took me three days to finish them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, it takes me about six hours to make a pair, it's the winding of the Teflon tape that does my head in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Eh, better than myself, I'd take like 2 weeks..... (poor attention span). I'm better off buying these things... (and the way I am leaning to go I prolly won't have any use for em >.<)


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## Godkin

Thanks again, Budgetphile. They look great - very professional!!! I won't sleep now till they arrive.


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## MaloS

Mmm, got my cv4010s and some EF95s along with them =]
 Listening to 4010s right now, and honestly...I am not picking up anything new >.< Although give credit here, hd595 is by far not the most revealing headphone. I'll do some tests when I get w5k. 

 Anyone have a constant desire to describe bass as rubbery with the Darkvoice?

 Also, HIFI, how's the DV332 acquisition going =] ?


----------



## Godkin

The CV4010 (M8100) is a very good tube, but as I've said before the differences between tubes is not night-and-day, but more subtle. Each tube has its own character: the MULLARDS are sweeter, the RCAs crisper and more forward. I can't say I've found the bass produced by the 332 and the CV4010s as "rubbery." If anything they "grounded" the bass more. 

 I have a pair of SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws Greens on the way so we'll see how they sound compared to the others.

 Also, Budgetphile's silver ICs are wheeling their way to me. Hopefully, they'll arrive tomorrow and I'll give them a try.


----------



## Godkin

Budgetphile's ICs arrived this morning - very well packaged. They certainly have a DIY look about them, yet you can see the amount of work and time that's went into making them. They're terminated with very pretty Shark RCAs that fit the inputs on the 332 very snuggly. 

 Sonically, they're excellent - even though they've by no means run in yet. They seem to have all the advantages of a Silver IC, but with none of the disadvantages: namely, they sound open and smooth, the top-end particularly detailed, but don't have the nasty, brittle-sounding characteristics that can affect some silver cables. I thought my VAN DEN HUL interconnects were good, and they are, but with Budgetphile's DIY silver IC the resolution of fine detail, at both ends of the scale, is simply superb. Separation and soundstaging is also better, and the timbre of instruments excellent.

 The 332 and this cable, as Budgetphile notes, are a perfect combination.


----------



## MaloS

Might be probably because the 332 does not have crispiest high end which is where the silver is helping out.

 If anyone is interested in tubes for this amp, I have the following:
 Large:
 Svetlana 6S19P-V x4
 Small:
 JAN 5654 x2
 Mullard EF95 x2

 I actually sold my amp in the end due to 2 reasons - too much current draw and I constantly keep going to my Porta Corda just because I prefer its resolution. (I decided to purchase a higher end SS amp as a replacement). These are the left-over after-market tubes I have that actually have not seen any use except for JANs which have about 20 hours on them.


----------



## budgetphile

Hi Godkin,

 Glad you like the silver ICs, give them some time and they will sound even better, my pair which is identical to yours has about 20 odd hours of use, compared to your pair (which I tried briefly to make sure it works) sound more settled, I read in several forums on the net as I was researching making the silver IC's that they take about 100 hours to fully break in. 

 Before all this I used to think that cables cannot possibly break in, now I know better


----------



## hew

I have followed the thread for a while and though I would mention a tube I have found quite satisfying in the 332. I don't see where anyone else has mentioned the 1945 6AK5 JAN Hytron, available on ebay for about 3.30 each. It has a different presentation when compared to the the M8100, the RCA, GE, etc. In my system there was a much fuller and warmer sound and better extension in the bass. It was far more musical than any of the others I tried. However, it is not as transparent as the M8100.


----------



## Godkin

Hi there, Hew, welcome to this 332 thread. Yes, I've seen those HYTRON 6AK5 tubes, and I've been on the point of buying them on a number of occasions. I think Budgetphile was buying some, but he had some difficulties with delivery. Thanks for you input - it's good for 332 owners to get together for the common good.

 Budgetphile, left the 332 and the silver ICs running all day, and the sound has improved. Gorgeous sound: separation is superb, threads of the music that were sketchily portrayed before are better presented. But as I said in my PM, there's a wonderful transparency to silver ICs. Even the "drive" and "pace" of the music seems to be better. In fact, it has all the good points of silver I remember but with none of the drawbacks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've read the material you provided on the links and it all "appears" pretty straightforward - but how many well intentioned audio diyer has foundered on those rocks. The only problem, which I think you highlighted, is the process of wrapping the plumber's tape around the cable. There's also a great design for a power cord. No thoughts about making this? Also have you seen the The Missing Link website, they're selling EICHMANN Bullets - the metal bodied variety - for £7.50 each, £24 for four. You see it's this silver IC: it's so good I'm now wondering how it would sound with higher quality RCAs.

 I'm listening to the silver IC now and it's getting better and better. Superb.


----------



## budgetphile

I ordered a set of Hythorns well over a month ago, the original shipment went missing, apparently the shipper was stealing all the sellers overseas orders since they have no tracking numbers, the seller sent me another batch, which has not arrived yet, so I can only wait to find out for myself how good they sound.

 As far as the plugs are concerned, I made a pair of interconnects using the Eichmann tellurium copper plugs, and they sound better than the shark plugs, the Eichmann plugs hardly contain any metal at all compared to regular plugs, just enough to pass the signal. But the improvement in sound quality using the Eichmann's is associated with substantial extra cost and a lot more hassle in assembly and usage, the Eichmann plugs are very fiddly to work with, and once assembled have to be treated with great care, after completing a pair using the Eichmann plugs, I ended breaking the silver wires at the solder joint as I was inserting them into the back of the 332, which meant that I had to partially disassemble the cable, de-solder, clear the old solder and re solder again, so I wouldn't advice anyone to go for them unless they are comfortable with using a soldering iron.

 What makes this particular design of silver ICs sound good is using as little metal in the signal path as possible, the most reasonably priced thin 4N silver wire I could find was AWG30, I would have loved to use AWG32 instead for the signal wire, but the cost would have been too much for me, since very few places seem to stock such thin gauge off the shelf. Another contributing factor to the sound quality was applying the Eichmann principle of a thickness ratio of cold wire being around x1.4 the thickness of the signal wire.

 I also found another contributing factor to the sound quality which is the minimalist approach in insulating the wires, it would have been very easy for me to add some sort of fancy final outer sleeving on top of the finished ICs but I noticed with the material I tried which was a fairly expensive specialized IC outer sleeving, that it tarnished the sound quality somewhat, so I decided not to implement it.

 The research I have done so far seems to indicate that the ideal insulator for the silver wires would be pure cotton, I started out trying to use cotton tubing, I tried to thread the wire using a needle, the cotton tubing I used had a hardish core, and the wire kept breaking before reaching the desired length, which made me settle for the Teflon tape instead. I am still looking for suitable cotton tubing, I suspect that the ultimate in sound quality in silver ICs would be to use AWG32 for signal, AWG30 for cold, the Eichmann silver plugs (which are ridiculously expensive) and insulate the wires in pure cotton tubing.

 I have come across a couple of very interesting power chord designs that I would like to try out, unfortunately with the nature of the work I do, I don't get work very regularly, and when I do, I get too busy that I don't have much time for my real interests, I have just started a new contract, I am contracted for a week, but I suspect (and hope) that my contract will be extended for a few months, so my sound Nirvana will have to wait a while


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## Godkin

You should give it all up, Budgetphile, and make audio ICs - you've got a natural talent for it. 

 No, seriously, I hope your work goes well and your contract gets extended.

 PS: Cable improving even more - blows my old ICs out of the water. I've never had ICs that improved the sound of a system this much.


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## bimmer116

man, budgetphile I really want to purchase a pair of your silver ICs to try out. I don't know if you received my pm about purchasing a pair from you. Godkin what was the difference you noticed with the IC, and how much did it cost?

 Thanks,

 Mike


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## budgetphile

Hi Mike,

 for the life of me I thought I sent you a reply, unless I pressed the wrong button.

 Anyway, I just sent you a pm.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bimmer116* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_man, budgetphile I really want to purchase a pair of your silver ICs to try out. I don't know if you received my pm about purchasing a pair from you. Godkin what was the difference you noticed with the IC, and how much did it cost?

 Thanks,

 Mike_


----------



## hew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mmm, got my cv4010s and some EF95s along with them =]
 Listening to 4010s right now, and honestly...I am not picking up anything new >.< Although give credit here, hd595 is by far not the most revealing headphone. I'll do some tests when I get w5k. 

 Anyone have a constant desire to describe bass as rubbery with the Darkvoice?

 Also, HIFI, how's the DV332 acquisition going =] ?_

 


 I have both the hd595 and the W5000. The Hd595 is good but the w5000 is far better. For me it was like night and day, literally. When you hear the ATH for the first time you will immediately know what others complain about when they say Senns are veiled. But, bear in mind that the w5000 will need at least a 150 hours of break in before it begins sounding right. Also, it is so revealing that I spent quite some time changing between cabling, power cords/conditioners, tubes for the DV332, and source components before getting the kind of coherence and musicality I crave. 

 Sad to hear you had to sell the DV before you got the AT. IMO, they make a good pairing.


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## hew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mmm, got my cv4010s and some EF95s along with them =]
 Listening to 4010s right now, and honestly...I am not picking up anything new >.< Although give credit here, hd595 is by far not the most revealing headphone. I'll do some tests when I get w5k. 

 Anyone have a constant desire to describe bass as rubbery with the Darkvoice?

 Also, HIFI, how's the DV332 acquisition going =] ?_

 


 BTW, the rubbery bass with HD595 and DV dissappears with the W5000. Much, much tighter. Not the final word on slam and depth, though.


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## user18

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MaloS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Might be probably because the 332 does not have crispiest high end which is where the silver is helping out.

 If anyone is interested in tubes for this amp, I have the following:
 Large:
 Svetlana 6S19P-V x4
 Small:
 JAN 5654 x2
 Mullard EF95 x2

 I actually sold my amp in the end due to 2 reasons - too much current draw and I constantly keep going to my Porta Corda just because I prefer its resolution. (I decided to purchase a higher end SS amp as a replacement). These are the left-over after-market tubes I have that actually have not seen any use except for JANs which have about 20 hours on them._

 

How much current does the 332 actually draw? I'm leaning toward it, but if it sucks as much power as a couple of 100 watt lightbulbs, I might reconsider.


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## finhurley

So i'm here still burning in my k701- DV332 combo. I'm running HGA silver lace cables and find them quite detailed also. One thing that i have not tried is silver plated copper. May have to try to make some. I am still running the stock power cord. Has anyone built or bought themselves a new cord and has it made a difference? I'm thinking about building one with Belden 83803 cabling......

 I'm hoping that my cv4010's come this week. I'm curious if i can hear any difference now.


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## MaloS

I am not sure but it put our electricity bill about 20 bucks over what was expected (approximately, our electricity usage is quite inconsistent).

 Instead of the Darkvoice 332 I grabbed a Larocco PRII, should be an interesting combo in itself  My interconnect between DAC and Amp is Cardas - nothing to complain about, and I have a power conditioner for all practical purposes, so I think my setup should be set. It is also rather mobile so I can take it with me if I am going somewhere far for some time, which happens, I am still a college student and I am not even sure where I intend on living after I graduate. (certainly not here).

 The hd595 veil I figured out when I got my Stax SR-80 - these things kick ass for detail and air xD They just have no bass >.< I really liked what it did well though, so if w5k is as it is described, I am in for a treat.


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## bimmer116

did anybody feel that the bass is a little light on the 332? I feel that the mid and up are all really good but bass lacks some punch to it.


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## Godkin

Bimmer, Budgetphile's ICs make a big difference. Years ago, when I had a huge hifi system, I had silver ICs and speaker cables everywhere, and it sounded great. Budgetphile's cables do the same thing, but with none of the potential drawbacks. Separation of voices and instruments is better, as is the resolution of fine detail, something you'd expect from silver cables. The sound of the instruments themselves, I suppose you'd call it timbre, is also far more "real". Bass is maybe a tad lighter than the VAN DEN HULS, but as I don't much listen to heavy rock or hip-hop that's not a big problem. I've only had the ICs playing for about 30 hours so they're by no means run-in yet, and Budgetphile assures me they will get better.

 I won't reveal here what I paid, other than to say that Budgetphile kindly made them for me at cost, and for cables of this quality they were ludicrously inexpensive.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bimmer116* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did anybody feel that the bass is a little light on the 332? I feel that the mid and up are all really good but bass lacks some punch to it._

 

Kinda weird, it really has a full bass sound too, but it does not have the really low bass if your headphone does not come with a deep extension. I currently have a solid state amp with a bass-extension feature that is much better in the bass area than the dv332. dv332 was alot of bass with hd595 but Compared to this amp dv332 bass sounds like a mid-bass boost that does punch but not quite satisfy in my case.


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## bimmer116

Well reporting back from a good night of listen, you can call me a happy camper
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . The bass issue was actually something I messed up in the setting of foobar, the bass is actually quite ample in amount and has a real nice kick to it. After half a night of listening and I swapped the svets back in actually, to tone down the bass. The svets does a good job of toning the bass down and cleaning it I think.

 Godkin, thanks for your very helpful pm reply about the tubes, I will be sure to look into them more. Anybody body else has a recommendation for the power tubes? they affect bass in some many ways I actually feel that they provide a more distinguishable difference than the signal ones. 

 Budgetphile, I got the pm I think posted right before you pmed me. Thanks for letting me know and I will be sure to try them out, although it may be a while, too busy enjoying the current setup (well, also need to let my wallet rest for a bit after my recent spree)

 I am surprised that more people don't own this amp, it drove my 990 to such perfection it was ridiculous. The sound was much fuller and richer, the somewhat recessed mid has definitely being filled out and the highs tamed a bit. Great amp!


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## Godkin

Glad to hear you're enjoying the 332. It still amazes me 3 months on. With Budgetphile's ICs it sounds awesome.

 The power rectifier tubes are pretty much limited to three brands: the Chinese 6S19; the SVETLANA 6S19Ps and P-Bs; and the Ulyanovsk 6S19P and P-Bs. Have you tried the Ulyanovsk versions, Bimmer? Personally, I think they're better than the Svets.

 There's plenty of the smaller, signal tubes out there. Prices have gone up as demand has increased, but you can still get them for a good price. The EF95, M8100, CV4010 family of tubes are very good, as are the RCA 5654/6AK5Ws. Also try the Soviet 6J1P, but better are the military versions, the 6J1P-EV. I've got a pair of SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws GREENS on the way and I'll report back on how they sound. I quite like American tubes, the RCAs are one of my favourites: they're more forward, which is good especially when listening to vocal based music.


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## etys rule

I have my 332 a little over a week now. I have not swapped out the Chinese tubes. I am still waiting for the M8100's to arrive. The 6S19PV tubes from the esteemed Ulyanovsk factory have arrived. I've got eight. Godkin, if you would kindly post as to how to match these up for optimal sound, I would gladly share my bounty with the fellas. The tubes are new, from what I can tell. Quite well packed.

 So far, the 332 is quite musical. It sounds better to my liking. Contrary to my handle, I have grown quite fond of music a bit warmer than neutral. Forgive my lack of descriptive adjectives. It's one awesome amp. If you are considering a tube amp and can afford it, buy it, live with it for a while, switch back to ss, and decide for yourself which you appreciate more, and go with it.

 Godkin, many thanks for your invaluable info here in this thread. Now if those damn M8100's would get here already.


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## MaloS

Great to hear you are enjoying it Bimmer xD
 It is very possible I just did not have the cans to be driven best by it, but then my current lil device does not leave me disappointed =]

 Although Bimmer, how does the DV332 compare to the Dynahi? I am sure a comparison thread is due in a week =]


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## bimmer116

ahhh, u caught me, I might try to to do a mini write up on the comparo but I am on finals right now and also a trip lined up right after my last quarter. Might be a while till when I can write one. Oh yea btw, I was the one who bought Malo's amp for those that didn't know.

 Mike


----------



## Godkin

Thanks, Etys Rule, for your kind comments, but it's a collective effort here, each 332 owner chipping in his little bit which hopefully builds up to a more comprehensive understanding of the DV amp.

 You're right to wait before changing the stock tubes: gives you a good idea of how the amp sounds in its stock form, and so helps you evaluate any improvements the replacement valves bring. 

 The Ulyanovsk 6S19P-Vs are about as good as it gets, considering the pitiful ammount of equivalents theren are for the 6S19. These tubes, especially in their B-V incarnations, are highly engineered, and made to very strict, military specifications. Each valve, therefore, is pretty much the same as the next one, not that tube matching is that crucial in a headphone amp. Replacing them is straightforward: grip the stock 6S19s firmly, and rocking it slightly from side-to-side, pull it out. Then fit the Ulyanovsks - I haven't had a bad one yet.

 The SYLVANIAs arrived this morning. Fitted them this evening, and there's an audible and persistent hum, even when the amp is not turned up. I'll let them burn in for a while, but I've a feeling this tube's not "compatable" with the 332. It's the first tube I've had "go bad" in this amp - the rest worked perfectly. Fitting cathode bypass caps is simply not an option - not at the minute anyway. 

 Etys Rule, I hope the M8100s arrive soon. Personally speaking, there're one of the best tubes you can get.


----------



## orac02

User18

 Ive Had my 332 a while now, glanced at this thread and noticed your question

 At the moment mine is using 39W - not particularly dependant on the volume.

 Hope this helps

 Steve


----------



## hew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *orac02* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_User18

 Ive Had my 332 a while now, glanced at this thread and noticed your question

 At the moment mine is using 39W - not particularly dependant on the volume.

 Hope this helps

 Steve_

 

My Pass Aleph 5 is 300W and hasn't given me as much satisfaction as the 332with w5000 has. I wish I had discovered headphones sooner. All that money and effort could have gone into a pretty awesome headphone system.


----------



## Godkin

That's exactly what I think, Hew. I gave up on "normal" hifi years ago: firstly, I live in a flat and the old woman downstairs was constantly complaining about the noise, and, secondly, because I'd heard that through a good headphone based system you'd could get world class audio for a reasonable price. I've went through many headphone amps since, but the 332 - my first truly valve amp - blows the socks off them all.


----------



## hew

I had the same situation when I moved into a smaller home. Listening fell off because the room was not isolated or properly laid out. 

 I got back into music after I purchased an mp3 player and started doing research for a higher quality headset. After the headphone (HD555 shortly replaced by a HD595) I kept reading that I would need an amp to properly drive them. I just could not resist the opportunity to experience a tube-based system. I had bought the Pass because it was reported to sound like tube amplifiers. So I guess I was always headed for tubes.


----------



## budgetphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... The SYLVANIAs arrived this morning. Fitted them this evening, and there's an audible and persistent hum, even when the amp is not turned up..._

 

Hi Godkin,

 I had the same problem with the batch of Sylvania's I received, I found that running them in for a few hours (10-20) got rid of the hum, they do sound great.


----------



## Godkin

The hum has all but gone now, Budgetphile. And they sound a lot better now, although the hum was by no means audible when the volume was turned up. They've everything a good valve should have - although I think they don't have the clarity of the RCAs or the CV4010s. To tell you the truth, they sound slightly veiled to me, but maybe that will wear off as they burn in.

 ICs still sounding brilliant - getting better as the hours go by. I'm also burning in a new cable I bought that runs between my X-PSU V3 and X-DAC V3. Nothing startling so far, not in the league of your ICs anyway. 

 I wonder does the guy who designed your ICs have a design, based on silver obviously, for a good digital interconnect? I mean, would it be the same basic principle as the standard, analogue ICs?


----------



## budgetphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wonder does the guy who designed your ICs have a design, based on silver obviously, for a good digital interconnect? I mean, would it be the same basic principle as the standard, analogue ICs?_

 

There was not a single design that I followed in making the silver IC's, it was a combination of various methods that I thought might work well together, I will keep an eye out for any info that I might come across for good digital diy cables, and you do the same and forward me anything interesting you come across, while you are at it, could you keep an eye out for Sennheiser cable plugs (the bit that goes into the headphone) I am very keen on making a silver headphone cable, but I don't think that cutting the plugs off a senn cable to use will do justice to a silver cable. Sennheiser doesn't sell them, only cardas and moon audio seem to have access to senn phone plugs, I couldn't find anything of use on the net, if all fails I'll see if I can make some wood plugs that would do the trick.


----------



## Godkin

I don't know what designs you used for the ICs, but you've got it right - big style.

 Those SENNHEISER connectors are fiendishly difficult to find. Some on this forum, and elsewhere, say that using these connectors for a DIY cable is impossible, others say the reverse. They recommend buying a stock SENNHEISER cable and cutting the connectors off, then fitting them to your new cable. 

 But I'll keep an eye out and see if we can get something sorted out.

 PS Wooden plugs? - sounds intriguing.


----------



## Mazuki

I think it would be really interesting to compare the Darkvoice 332 and Little Dot II ++. They use the same power tube (6C19) and both use pentodes as the input tube (EF92 vs. EF95). Naturally the topology of the amps are probably very similar. They should sound about the same.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it would be really interesting to compare the Darkvoice 332 and Little Dot II ++. They use the same power tube (6C19) and both use pentodes as the input tube (EF92 vs. EF95). Naturally the topology of the amps are probably very similar. They should sound about the same._

 

I'd imagine only remotely. LD2++ is known for congested sound, especially with demanding music like metal. DV332 rocks metal without blinking.
 Also DV332 has no heat issues that LD2++ is known for.

 In short - tubes are only part of the game, the circuitry inside of the amp and the other components matter quite a bit too =]


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 In short - tubes are only part of the game, the circuitry inside of the amp and the other components matter quite a bit too =] 
 

Tube circuits are generally very simple, thus if they use the same tubes, their circuitry are naturally quite similar. 

 While I agree components can make a big difference, it is unfair to compare the two amps based on comments from people with different sources and different headphones. People who shell out $200 for the Little Dot will inevitably have different equipment compared to those who shell out $500 for the Darkvoice 332. If all else equal, I think these two amps will sound surprisingly similar.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube circuits are generally very simple, thus if they use the same tubes, their circuitry are naturally quite similar. 

 While I agree components can make a big difference, it is unfair to compare the two amps based on comments from people with different sources and different headphones. People who shell out $200 for the Little Dot will inevitably have different equipment compared to those who shell out $500 for the Darkvoice 332. If all else equal, I think these two amps will sound surprisingly similar._

 

Me and an owner of LD2++ were using our impressions through hd595 to compare >.< And can you imagine what issues in sound a badly chosen cap can cause? Eeeeh....

 They might sound similar in the way that their sound-signature will be similar, but their transient response relies heavily on the circuitry of the amp, resistors/caps, and quality of the transient response is the reason we have amplifiers in the first place.


----------



## Mazuki

I noticed you have a W5000, do you think you and your friend can do some comparisons with that headphone? I'm really interested.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...The research I have done so far seems to indicate that the ideal insulator for the silver wires would be pure cotton, I started out trying to use cotton tubing, I tried to thread the wire using a needle, the cotton tubing I used had a hardish core, and the wire kept breaking before reaching the desired length, which made me settle for the Teflon tape instead. I am still looking for suitable cotton tubing, I suspect that the ultimate in sound quality in silver ICs would be to use AWG32 for signal, AWG30 for cold, the Eichmann silver plugs (which are ridiculously expensive) and insulate the wires in pure cotton tubing...._

 

Pardon me for barging in, budgetphile or anyone else, but how does the Ag wire know whether it has a cotton, Teflon, plastic or nail polish insulation? All of those substances should be invisible to the electrons traveling along the surface of the wire, no? 

 Another thing I have always been curious about is that I read that silver oxide is not as good a conductor as unoxidized silver. If this is true, does the part of silver wire which is exposed to air slowly change the sound as it oxidizes over time?

 USG


----------



## Godkin

Could stick it no longer - had to whip those SYLVANIAs out. Good is some ways, but the midrange was much too recessed, and they just didn't have the clarity of the CV4010s. Immediate improvement as soon as the CV4010s were back in place. Status quo restored.

 Don't know the "science" of cables, nor the materials from which they're made. I judge with my ears, and my ears like what they hear.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube circuits are generally very simple, thus if they use the same tubes, their circuitry are naturally quite similar. 

 While I agree components can make a big difference, it is unfair to compare the two amps based on comments from people with different sources and different headphones. People who shell out $200 for the Little Dot will inevitably have different equipment compared to those who shell out $500 for the Darkvoice 332. *If all else equal, I think these two amps will sound surprisingly similar*._

 

Hi Mazuki

 At the NY meet a few weeks ago, M8o and I had the opportunity to compare my Woo3 with a Darkvoice 336, using his portable DVD player as a source. We were able to listen to the same track on each amp with our own headphones and we both commented on how differently they sounded from each other. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This, btw, was in stark contrast to what I've heard from Ray's switch box at the Nov. meet, where I was barely able to tell the difference between a Tomahawk and an unmodded RKV-MkII. (although I should note that better ears, such as the ones found on Romanee, were able to hear and describe those differences in detail)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed you have a W5000, do you think you and your friend can do some comparisons with that headphone? I'm really interested._

 

Unable. Do not own Darkvoice 332 anymore. Best I can do until the meet is w5k + larocco pr2 + porta corda + hd595 + emu 0404 (granted Uraflit comes through and we get to hear each others' toys in a week or so). As you can see - all solid state.


----------



## budgetphile

Hi upstateguy,

 The reasoning that I came across, which made sense to me, is that cotton acts as a dampener, which cuts down on mechanical vibrations, and the ICs are bound to experience vibrations in use, I haven't tried cotton sleeving yet, so I cannot really tell, but I know from experience that dampening tubes and audio equipment does contribute to better sound, that is the reason why I'd like to give cotton tubing a go.

 I came across a lot of info that struck me as snake oil while researching the most appropriate method in designing the ICs, such as the talk about wire burn in, to my mind a wire is mearly a length of metal with a current passing through it, I couldn't understand how could it possibly break in, yet comparing two identically made ICs with identical lengths, one with around 20 -30 hours of use, and the other freshly made sounded different to me, I also compared a set that was used for around 70 hours to an identical freshly made set, that the difference was even more pronounced.

 I reached another unorthodox conclution, while trying to use a none conductive outer sleeving to make the ICs look better, was that adding such an outer sleeving muddied the sound, as to how the very well insulated silver wire knew of the presence of the none conductive outer sleeving, and as to how the outer sleeving affected the flow of electrons across the outer diameter of the wire, I haven't got a clue, all I know is that my ears and mind perceived a different sound.

 As far as oxidisation is concerned, I came across a scientific paper while doing my research that stated that there was no measurable difference in the conductivity of oxidised and none oxidised silver, how does this translate into a real life hearing test, I haven't got a clue, I do not have access to silver wire that has been exposed to air for long enough to oxidise.

 All I know is that to my ears the sound of the design that I settled upon was better, by varying degrees, than several other designs that I have tried, and the only material I have played with so far is silver, I'd like to try the same design using gold wire and copper wire for comparison.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pardon me for barging in, budgetphile or anyone else, but how does the Ag wire know whether it has a cotton, Teflon, plastic or nail polish insulation? All of those substances should be invisible to the electrons traveling along the surface of the wire, no? 

 Another thing I have always been curious about is that I read that silver oxide is not as good a conductor as unoxidized silver. If this is true, does the part of silver wire which is exposed to air slowly change the sound as it oxidizes over time?

 USG_


----------



## Godkin

Strange, that you should talk about "damping" because I spent part of today applying bitumen sheets to the insides of my X-DAC V3: mainly to the case, which rings horribly, the DAC chips and, believe it or not, the tops of the capacitors. It may be a myth, a bit like cables burning in, but there does seem to be some sonic benefits: the sound appears less "thin."

 I don't think these bitumen sheets could be applied to the 332, it gets much too warm, but it would be good if we could find something that could.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi upstateguy,

 The reasoning that I came across, which made sense to me, is that cotton acts as a dampener, which cuts down on mechanical vibrations, and the ICs are bound to experience vibrations in use, I haven't tried cotton sleeving yet, so I cannot really tell, but I know from experience that dampening tubes and audio equipment does contribute to better sound, that is the reason why I'd like to give cotton tubing a go.

 I came across a lot of info that struck me as snake oil while researching the most appropriate method in designing the ICs, such as the talk about wire burn in, to my mind a wire is mearly a length of metal with a current passing through it, I couldn't understand how could it possibly break in, yet comparing two identically made ICs with identical lengths, one with around 20 -30 hours of use, and the other freshly made sounded different to me, I also compared a set that was used for around 70 hours to an identical freshly made set, that the difference was even more pronounced.

 I reached another unorthodox conclution, while trying to use a none conductive outer sleeving to make the ICs look better, was that adding such an outer sleeving muddied the sound, as to how the very well insulated silver wire knew of the presence of the none conductive outer sleeving, and as to how the outer sleeving affected the flow of electrons across the outer diameter of the wire, I haven't got a clue, all I know is that my ears and mind perceived a different sound.

 As far as oxidisation is concerned, I came across a scientific paper while doing my research that stated that there was no measurable difference in the conductivity of oxidised and none oxidised silver, how does this translate into a real life hearing test, I haven't got a clue, I do not have access to silver wire that has been exposed to air for long enough to oxidise.

 All I know is that to my ears the sound of the design that I settled upon was better, by varying degrees, than several other designs that I have tried, and the only material I have played with so far is silver, I'd like to try the same design using gold wire and copper wire for comparison._

 

Gee I hear ya, but I just don’t know budgetphile…. Other than oxidation, what else could possibly happen to a wire and its terminations? Once a wire is burned in, does it stay burned in if it is not used? Suppose you shorten the wire by 50% and reterminate it, is it still burned in? 

 Another thing I find troubling is how a wire could possibly react to vibration (never mind that I put soft rubber feet on everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )? If it does, I feel sorry for the circuitry in a powered sub woofer or the tubes in a guitar amplifier. Think of all the wires that have to function perfectly in the Shuttle during lift off.... 

 Kinda reminds me of this....






 Let me tell you a little story about foobar. Every so often I like to fiddle around with the equalizer to see if I can adjust my DT880’s to sound more like my HD650s and vice versa. Sometimes I even like to re-equalize a recording by make very small changes. What I do is open the equalizer, drag it to the lower right corner of my desk top, until I can just see the name of the _Zero all _button, and then make my adjustments. On more than one occasion, after fiddling around with a series of micro changes, a few more dbs here and a few less dbs there, just when I thought I had it sounding just right, I have discovered that the equalizer was not enabled. What a rude awakening… the changes *I thought I heard *were nothing more than placebo effect. But at the time, let me tell you, I heard those differences.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 USG


----------



## budgetphile

I do not have an answer as to whether wires become unburnt in after extended periods of not being used, shortening the length wouldn't make much difference to my mind since we are talking about very short lengths of wire anyway, if we were dealing with miles of wire there is bound to be an effect if the length was considerably shortened.

 As to vibration, even if it does not affect the performance of the wire itself, if left undamped, the vibration is bound to be passed on to other components in the chain, which is bound to effect the sound quality.

 One thing for sure, not all ICs sound the same, despite the fact that ICs are nothing more than lengths of conductive wire that have electrons skimming their surface from one point to the next.

 If you genuinely wish to find out scientific answers that would satisfy your inquiring mind, I suggest you take a metallurgy and conductivity course and perhaps a psychology and perception course as well, and then come back to us and furnish us with scientific explanations as to what we are perceiving, you may well prove that it is nothing more than a placebo effect after all, and it may well be, then we can all stick BBQ skewers from one RCA plug to the other, and save ourselves all the time and hassle of trying to improve the sound quality of our equipment.

 That in turn would allow us to spend our spare time pursuing more intellectually challenging past times,such as watching silly TV programs while wearing equally silly hats, and in between commercials we could post on forums that are dedicated to die hard fans of wearing said silly hats while watching said TV programs, whose sound is played back to us on equipment that uses BBQ skewers for interconnects, instead of frequenting this forum.


----------



## hew

This little tiff seems to have placed a damp cloth over this thread. Can we get back to tweaking the DV 332?


----------



## Mogos

Hi Every Body!
 I am a very satisfied user of Darkvoice 332. It is a great headphone amplifier. I have also SS Graham Slee SOLO headphone amplifier as well. After one month of comparations I have given the first place to the Darkvoice. Solo is a very good amp and the difference is not a huge one in comparation with Darkvoice. But the final result is that I am not listening any more to the Solo. Any way I will keep him because of its mobility. Of course the first thing I have done was to get the tube replacements. Yes there is a big difference between the stock tubes and their western or Russian equivalents. The amp was one of the best buys. If somebody is interested I have some spare tubes for sale. To get ones I like to have I had to buy more then I need. I have the following types:
 Generic Russian NEW 6C19P..............8 pcs.
 Generic Russian NEW 6C19P-V............6 pcs.
 Voskhod Russian NEW 6J1P-EV............6 pcs. 
 HALTRON NEW 6AK5W .............2 pcs.
 ZaeruX NEW 6AK5 .............2 pcs

 If you are interested in tubes you can mail me to this address: manektoja@o2.pl


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do not have an answer as to whether wires become unburnt in after extended periods of not being used, shortening the length wouldn't make much difference to my mind since we are talking about very short lengths of wire anyway, if we were dealing with miles of wire there is bound to be an effect if the length was considerably shortened.

 As to vibration, even if it does not affect the performance of the wire itself, if left undamped, the vibration is bound to be passed on to other components in the chain, which is bound to effect the sound quality.

 One thing for sure, not all ICs sound the same, despite the fact that ICs are nothing more than lengths of conductive wire that have electrons skimming their surface from one point to the next.

 If you genuinely wish to find out scientific answers that would satisfy your inquiring mind, I suggest you take a metallurgy and conductivity course and perhaps a psychology and perception course as well, and then come back to us and furnish us with scientific explanations as to what we are perceiving, you may well prove that it is nothing more than a placebo effect after all, and it may well be, then we can all stick BBQ skewers from one RCA plug to the other, and save ourselves all the time and hassle of trying to improve the sound quality of our equipment.

 That in turn would allow us to spend our spare time pursuing more intellectually challenging past times,such as watching silly TV programs while wearing equally silly hats, and in between commercials we could post on forums that are dedicated to die hard fans of wearing said silly hats while watching said TV programs, whose sound is played back to us on equipment that uses BBQ skewers for interconnects, instead of frequenting this forum._

 

lol budgetphile, are you talking about the Cu BBQ skewers, the Ag plated Cu skewers or the all Ag skewers?


----------



## Godkin

Hi Mogos. Welcome along.

 I agree, the 332 is a great little amp, and a steal for the money. My amp before the 332 was an MF X-CAN V3, which was okay in its stock form, but I extensively modded it, along the lines of that recommended by Pink Floyd, and my 332 out of the box was better than it.

 What I think is a pity is that hifi mags don't review amps like the 332 at all. I mean, headphone listeners don't get much to please them in the hifi press - thank God for sites like this - just the odd review of amps like X-CANS, SOLOs and GRADOs, but not the real esoteric amps such as DARKVOICE, BADA, MOON, and JOLIDA.

 What tubes have you settled on, Mogos?


----------



## Vicomte

I've been pondering buying a 336i or 332 for use with my MS-2i, but have heard very little as to how these amps do with low impedance cans.

 Is the price difference between the two justified?

 Works well with Grados?


----------



## Godkin

I think the DARKVOICE amps, whether it be the 336i or the 332, are designed for higher impedance cans, like SENNHEISERs and BEYERDYNAMICs. I've been told by those in the know that the output stages with their low capacitances - 60uFs in the 336i and 6.6uFs in the 332 - are optimised for impedances between 300 and 600ohms.

 Some here, however, say the 332 works well with low impedance cans, like the GRADOs, the K701s and W5000s.


----------



## budgetphile

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *upstateguy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol budgetphile, are you talking about the Cu BBQ skewers, the Ag plated Cu skewers or the all Ag skewers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Cu BBQ skewers seem to be best for the signal wire, and Ag plated Cu skewers for the cold wire, or was it the all Ag skewers?

 Let me finish my kebab, and I'll double check 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 on a more serious note, I have made a pair of ICs using CAT5 patch cable copper wire and Shark plugs, they seem to be a little warmer sounding than the silver wires, but they don't convey as much detail, I much rather the silver ICs, and before any upstate guys start asking, I am not quite sure why, it may be due to the chilli BBQ sauce which I spilt on it while making it by mistake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The best combination so far for me is Mullard M8100 black plates + Ulyanovsks + silver ICs + chilli sauce


----------



## hew

Chilli sauce? Here is a much much better recipe for you, Budgetphile. 
 WE 403a + Svetlanovs + rfi/emi ferrite snap-on filters at either end of your silver ic + black diamond racing cones under everything. Oh yeah, don't forget the sauce: I like jerk sauce - talk about heat.


----------



## Mogos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Mogos. Welcome along.

 I agree, the 332 is a great little amp, and a steal for the money. My amp before the 332 was an MF X-CAN V3, which was okay in its stock form, but I extensively modded it, along the lines of that recommended by Pink Floyd, and my 332 out of the box was better than it.

 What I think is a pity is that hifi mags don't review amps like the 332 at all. I mean, headphone listeners don't get much to please them in the hifi press - thank God for sites like this - just the odd review of amps like X-CANS, SOLOs and GRADOs, but not the real esoteric amps such as DARKVOICE, BADA, MOON, and JOLIDA.

 What tubes have you settled on, Mogos?_

 

I have settled Mullards M8100 and generic Russian 6C19P-V and I agree with you that this forum is great. And thank Good we have on it brave and hifi curious members. The post encouraged me to buy the amp from far far away wiring the money and hoping nothing will go wrong. But all this was worth a risk. Now I have sound were nothing is missing. I have no problem to drive my Sony MDR-SA5000 (70 Ohm) The HD 600 doesn't have any chance to come back on my head.


----------



## Godkin

Good combo, Mogos - a match made in heaven. I'm running the same combo - the signal valves being CV4010s, the military version of the M8100. 

 What are the generic 6S19P-Bs you refer to? If there're not SVETLANAs, they may Ulyanovsk made valves. Check the valve - there may be a small symbol like a white arrow pointing up the tube. If so, they're Ulyanovsk valves.


----------



## Mogos

I have checked the tubes for the marking but there is nothing except the tube symbol production date and some stemps- I guess some kind of quality control. And they are 100% Russian. The symbol is in Russian


----------



## Godkin

I'd say they would be Ulyanovsk tubes. The markings are very hard to read sometimes, and maybe they've worn off. SVETLANA valves are very easy to identify - they've a large bluish circle on them. The only other company who make the 6S19s - apart from the Chinese - are Ulyanovsk.


----------



## Mogos

May be they are Ulyanovsk. Have a look at the photograph.


----------



## ddhd

is there a website for darkvoice amps? i read threw this thread but did not see one.


----------



## Godkin

Yes, they certainly look like Ulyanovsks, although the makings are very indistinct. As I said, I know of no other Russian company, apart from Svetlana, that manufactures the 6S19: Reflector don't, nor do Voskhod. So by a process of elimination, they must be Ulyanovsks.


----------



## hew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ddhd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there a website for darkvoice amps? i read threw this thread but did not see one._

 

Try a search on ebay. I bought mine from Jasmine_chine based in France. Fast shipping and quick response to questions. Poor english though.


----------



## snoxu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try a search on ebay. I bought mine from Jasmine_chine based in France. Fast shipping and quick response to questions. Poor english though._

 

Are they shipped from China or France?

 Are there any European dealers BTW?


----------



## laxx

China.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think the DARKVOICE amps, whether it be the 336i or the 332, are designed for higher impedance cans, like SENNHEISERs and BEYERDYNAMICs. I've been told by those in the know that the output stages with their low capacitances - 60uFs in the 336i and 6.6uFs in the 332 - are optimised for impedances between 300 and 600ohms.

 Some here, however, say the 332 works well with low impedance cans, like the GRADOs, the K701s and W5000s._

 

If someone likes DYI its not hard to replace the caps.


----------



## hew

What would be best type and value of caps to use, without degrading sound quality?


----------



## Godkin

Depends what cans you have, Hew. Strange thing is, the lower the impedance of your cans the more capacitance you need in the output stage of your amp.

 The 33uF/400v SCR polyprops in the 332 are just about perfect for driving lower impedances - like Senns and Beyers. Maybe these could be replaced, and the capacitance upped slightly, with Auricaps or Paper in Oil caps.

 Some have upped the capacitance in the 336i with good results, usually starting around 220uF and rising to 1000uF. Only problem is they are electrolytics, and generally they have very poor sonic characteristics. Good in PSUs and so forth, but usually not good in the signal path. Better a film cap, but they only come in smaller values - a 220uF film cap would be about the size of a house. If you want ot fit higher capacitances there is really no choice: fit electrolytic and bypass with good quality film cap.

 Then again, there is always output transformers?


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends what cans you have, Hew. Strange thing is, the lower the impedance of your cans the more capacitance you need in the output stage of your amp.

 The 3.3uF/400v SCR polyprops in the 332 are just about perfect for driving lower impedances - like Senns and Beyers. Maybe these could be replaced, and the capacitance upped slightly, with Auricaps or Paper in Oil caps.

 Some have upped the capacitance in the 336i with good results, usually starting around 220uF and rising to 1000uF. Only problem is they are electrolytics, and generally they have very poor sonic characteristics. Good in PSUs and so forth, but usually not good in the signal path. Better a film cap, but they only come in smaller values - a 220uF film cap would be about the size of a house. If you want ot fit higher capacitances there is really no choice: fit electrolytic and bypass with good quality film cap.

 Then again, there is always output transformers?_

 

I used electrolyte and bypassed with dynacaps and it sounded better than stock.
 I have heard that electrolites sound harsh, but I have been able to determine that a Dac can have a lot more to do with harshness than the caps would..I finally settled on a Paradesea dac and that made it smooth.I heard from Fitz on his cap changing and he said the same thing.
 But these are my experiences which may not be the same as yours bla bla bla disclaimer bla bla bla.


----------



## hew

I have an ATh-W5000 which I think is about 62 ohms and the hd595 which is 50 ohms. So i suspect there would be some benefit in terms of better bass performance. But the question remains which is the best brand of electrolytic cap? Echo1, can you be more specific on brands/types/values that you used? I'd rather not experiment too much on this front because my wallet is getting thin from all the tubes I have bought so far. 

 I also have a Paradisea and it does make a very coherent pairing with the DV. I have been rolling tubes in both it and the DV. This has paid off significantly on all fronts. The two most signicant tubes thus far is a pair of 1958 Sylvania 5654/6AK5W/6096 with gold labeling followed by a pair of WE 403A for the DV. For the paradisea, apart from a WE 396A, I also use a Raytheon 5670 (awesome bass) and I have a Sylvania Gold Label military qualified JHS-5670 on order, which I suspect will be as good in the Paradisea as the gold 6096 in the DV. When both components were fitted with Western Electric tubes I found that there was an added level of synergy and coherence achieved. If this is the same for the Sylvania gold labels then my tube rolling will really have paid off.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an ATh-W5000 which I think is about 62 ohms and the hd595 which is 50 ohms. So i suspect there would be some benefit in terms of better bass performance. But the question remains which is the best brand of electrolytic cap? Echo1, can you be more specific on brands/types/values that you used? I'd rather not experiment too much on this front because my wallet is getting thin from all the tubes I have bought so far. 

 I also have a Paradisea and it does make a very coherent pairing with the DV. I have been rolling tubes in both it and the DV. This has paid off significantly on all fronts. The two most signicant tubes thus far is a pair of 1958 Sylvania 5654/6AK5W/6096 with gold labeling followed by a pair of WE 403A for the DV. For the paradisea, apart from a WE 396A, I also use a Raytheon 5670 (awesome bass) and I have a Sylvania Gold Label military qualified JHS-5670 on order, which I suspect will be as good in the Paradisea as the gold 6096 in the DV. When both components were fitted with Western Electric tubes I found that there was an added level of synergy and coherence achieved. If this is the same for the Sylvania gold labels then my tube rolling will really have paid off._

 

I used (one each channel)Dynamicaps .47 for bypass from here: http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalo...itorsFilm.html
 For the electrolitics (two each channel)I used these:https://www.hndme.com/productcart/pc...&idproduct=735
 Picture--



 I have the older 336 without the curcuit board for the output caps,but if the design is the same the caps are in parallel, with the input side being soldered to the 6as7g tube pin 3&6. The output would go to the headphone jack.
 What I understand is that this will make the darkvoice more compatible with low impedence headphones.I had 50 ohm headphones when I did this.Now I have 250 ohm phones and it still sound great.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an ATh-W5000 which I think is about 62 ohms and the hd595 which is 50 ohms. So i suspect there would be some benefit in terms of better bass performance. But the question remains which is the best brand of electrolytic cap? Echo1, can you be more specific on brands/types/values that you used? I'd rather not experiment too much on this front because my wallet is getting thin from all the tubes I have bought so far. 

 I also have a Paradisea and it does make a very coherent pairing with the DV. I have been rolling tubes in both it and the DV. This has paid off significantly on all fronts. The two most signicant tubes thus far is a pair of 1958 Sylvania 5654/6AK5W/6096 with gold labeling followed by a pair of WE 403A for the DV. For the paradisea, apart from a WE 396A, I also use a Raytheon 5670 (awesome bass) and I have a Sylvania Gold Label military qualified JHS-5670 on order, which I suspect will be as good in the Paradisea as the gold 6096 in the DV. When both components were fitted with Western Electric tubes I found that there was an added level of synergy and coherence achieved. If this is the same for the Sylvania gold labels then my tube rolling will really have paid off._

 

Hew I just realized that you have the 332. I was referring to the 336. Different amp.I am on the wrong thread.But the principle would be the same.It has to have output caps if not a output transformer.


----------



## hew

Thanks Echo1. One further question - if I decide to do this, do I get the loudspeaker version or electronic version of the dynacaps? From the description it would seem to be the electronics but I am not sure.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Echo1. One further question - if I decide to do this, do I get the loudspeaker version or electronic version of the dynacaps? From the description it would seem to be the electronics but I am not sure._

 

 I used the electronic version


----------



## echo1

Also check the voltage coming out of the pin on the tube that goes to the caps to make shure the voltage is rated high enough on the caps.
 Be carefull,there are high lethel voltages in the case.Also make shure the caps are drained before you handle them.They can shock also.
 You may allready know this,but I have to issue a warning.


----------



## Godkin

Caps, like everything hifi, are totally subjective. Some like Blackgates, others don't. Personally, I've found that PANASONIC FC and FM electrolytics are excellent: very fluid sound. WIMA polyprops and polyesters are quite good, but lately I've used Russian mil-spec Paper in Oil caps to bypass electrolytics. They are huge, but sound great.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have an ATh-W5000 which I think is about 62 ohms ..._

 

ath-w5000 is 40 ohms.


----------



## echo1

I have these Russian paper in oil at .47 uf if you want to use them for a bypass Hew. Let me know


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Caps, like everything hifi, are totally subjective. Some like Blackgates, others don't. Personally, I've found that PANASONIC FC and FM electrolytics are excellent: very fluid sound. WIMA polyprops and polyesters are quite good, but lately I've used Russian mil-spec Paper in Oil caps to bypass electrolytics. They are huge, but sound great._

 

I got these Russian paper-in-oil to try instead of the film dynamicaps but never installed them. Do you think they would be better than film?


----------



## Godkin

Echo1, I've used these PIO caps in many mods, to X-CAN V3 etc, and they sound fabulous. Very analogue like sound - no sign of harshness. Superb caps. 

 Did you get them off E-Bay? On some audio websites, they sell for big money.


----------



## hew

I pmed you Echo1.


----------



## echo1

Well I put in the Russian caps. I can tell the difference.
 Now to let them break-in for awhile.
 I got these off ebay for about 20 dollars for 8 of them


----------



## Fitz

Rod, your amp is scary, it looks like it would chew my hand off if I stuck it in to try to do something, without even skipping a beat playing the music.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rod, your amp is scary, it looks like it would chew my hand off if I stuck it in to try to do something, without even skipping a beat playing the music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes its a Fitz trap.I tried to make it so confusing even you couldn't figure what the heck I did.
 And it actually worked when I first plugged it in!!!!Imagine that.


----------



## echo1

Hew I PM'ed you


----------



## Godkin

Here's a pic of the Russian PIO caps I've used in recent mods (2.2uF/400v). Bought them on E-Bay for a very good price, considering the inflated prices they sell for on some sites. Sound Great.


----------



## Fitz

Jeebus that is a BIG picture.


----------



## Godkin

It's a bit over the top, isn't it? Big pics for big caps.


----------



## ghiberti

mine arrived today
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 thankfully, Tsui, its designer, used better parts for mine than those of stock version
 and sent some extra tubes. I'm quite impressed with its sound. clear, smooth, dense, airy and
 dynamic. It seems to have all the good things we can expect from a good tube amp.
 mine is a little special but I don't think there's big difference between the twos.
 it's a real steal, guys


----------



## Godkin

Tell us more, Ghiberti, tell us more.

 Is there any way we could get the designer to contribute to this thread?


----------



## Dr.J

Hi,

 Does anyone have any idea how this amp treats the AKG K701's? I have a SS headphone amp built into my pre-pro and find the 701's a little analytical, a little underpowered and lacking in bass.

 There are so many amps out there, it's difficult to decide. I like the EC Zana Deux, but we're talking big bucks. And, while the Woo6 comes highly recommended, this 332 is nearly the same money.

 Any thoughts appreciated.

 thanks

 John


----------



## Godkin

Dr.J, general consensus is that the 332 and the K701s go well together. Maybe a K701 owner could go into more detail.

 I'm giving the 6J1P-EVs another go. Humming badly a the minute, but that will maybe "wear" away. Pity, they sound very good indeed: very dynamic, crisp, open and detailed. I've got a few sets so if these don't work properly after a few days I'll try another pair.


----------



## hew

I haven't heard the 6J1P-EV but using the M8100 as my reference, the 403A is a step above it. If I knew how good the Western Electric 403A was going to sound in the DV I would still have bought them even at 50/pair. As it stands I got them at 11/pair on ebay including shipping. They are also available at http://www.tubesandmore.com for 20/pair. 

 However, even better is the 1958 Sylvania JHS-5654 with Gold labels and that's another step (or two) up from the 403A. These are so good I just paid almost $50 for a pair of 1962 JHS-5670 gold labels, from the same vendor, for the Paradisea DAC. 

 At this level of performance I suspect that I am pretty near the limit of what I can get from simply rolling tubes in the DV. So my next step is to look at changing the coupling caps as suggested by you, Echo1 and Fitz. Attempting the change of the coupling caps is something that I can handle, and pretty much reversible.

 On another front, if you use computer as a source you may want to try crossfeed, but using plugins in Foobar2000. I recently stumbled on what I suspect may become the defacto standard for headphone listening. If you are interested please see the crossfeed thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229491 (mid-page).

 "I will always compromise my purist principles if it makes the headphone experience more like live (unamplified) music and consequently more enjoyable."


----------



## Godkin

I'll have to try the WE 403As, Hew. I've tried the SYLVANIA 5654 with Green labels and, to tell you the truth, I was very disappointed: the mids sounded congested and veiled. But the Golds may be a step up.


----------



## ghiberti

I bought some Ulyanovsks 6S19P-Vs for my 332 and looking for a good equivalent of 6J1.

 is there anybody know where I can get Syvania 6AK5W gold pin at a good price?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Godkin, 
 I asked tsui but he said it was not a good idea he made a post at this forum. 
 I also think it may be against the rule of head-fi


----------



## Godkin

Thanks, Ghiberti.

 The SYLVANIA 5654/6AK5Ws gold pins are very hard to get. I saw one being auctioned recently but not a pair so far. Personally, I'd like to try a pair of RAYTHEON 6AK5Ws, but you may also like to look for the RCA JRC 6AK5Ws, or the MULLARD M8100 or CV4010s, or Hew recommends the WESTERN ELECTRIC 403As. 

 I tried the SYLVANIA 5654s with green labels and was very disappointed, but Hew tried them with the gold labels and thought them really good - the best he's heard in fact.


----------



## hew

As Godkin states, the Sylvania gold labels are pretty rare. This is the ebay page where I bought them http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9314&rd=1&rd=1. I would try getting one of the other alternatives of the such as the Western Electric 403As or maybe even the 403Bs. There are two more of the 403Bs available on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-Electric...QQcmdZViewItem. The 403B uses less heater power and has a longer life than 403A according to https://www.tubeworld.com/400a723a.htm. I bought two and there are two left. You can also buy 403As from http://www.tubesandmore.com on sale through April 15th.


----------



## Godkin

In the absence of any decently priced WE 403As or 403Bs, I've bought myself a pair of TUNG SOL 6AK5Ws. I'll report any comments, good or bad, at a later date.

 I've also been told by those in the know that anybody with a 220v DV amp in the UK, and especially 332 owners here, can hook up a Variable Transformer. By being able to adjust the voltage entering the amp (220v), this device will stop the premature degradation of valves and components, particularly transformers, and help ensure the amp runs at cooler temperatures.


----------



## dfkt

I read the whole thread with great interest. Now I'm considering the 332 for my first tube amp. I read a lot about these, but never had the chance to try one (except a 1960ies Klemt Echolette tube delay). If you don't mind, I got some questions...

 One question would be if the Darkvoice is self-biasing. I couldn't find this information mentioned anywhere explicitely, and I heard it's a bit overwhelming for a tube-newcomer to get an amp that needs to be manually biased.

 I searched eBay and only found two shops selling the 332. One is "Jasmine Hifi", as mentioned in here, the other one is "High End Casque". I'd prefer to buy from the latter, since he obviously sells the 332 from France, which would be great - since Austrian customs are quite annoying and I always had to pay a lot when ordering stuff from outside the EU. Does anyone have experience with "High End Casque", or the situation with customs/duty when ordering a DV in general?

 Thanks for any help, if I'm going to buy some upgrade tubes I guess all questions are answered in here already.


----------



## hew

I would suggest you address these questions to High End Casque through his "ask seller a question" link on ebay. I suspect that the seller would have the best answer as to how to deal with shipping through your customs. He should also be able to answer the biasing question or at least get the answer from the factory. He has over 676 feedbacks at 100% positive so I would feel confident dealing with him, if not there is always Jasmine. When I had a problem with my DV she was able to diagnose and guide me in fixing it.


----------



## dfkt

Thank you, Hew, I'll ask the seller directly about the logistical/financial questions. This would be my first purchase through eBay, so I'm a bit cautious. 

 Since you obviously own the 332, I assume you didn't have to tamper with voltmeters and whatnot to bias the amp, which would mean it's self-biasing, in my understanding.

 On another note, I read here on Head-Fi several times that the Darkvoice 336 isn't exactly "tube-like" sounding. It obviously isn't as warm sounding as one would expect. Is the same true for the 332? If yes, can this be helped with upgrading to higher quality tubes?

 Getting characteristical tube-like sound would be the main reason for trying out a tube amp for the first time, so I'm not as sure about the 332 anymore, as I was the last few days.


----------



## Godkin

I certainly had no problems with biasing and the 332. Just plug in and play. Some valves, however, don't seem good with the 332 - they hum like crazy.

 For me, a characteristic of valve sound may be a warmish tinge to the music, but it is also the distinctive openess to the midrange. The 332, while not particularly warm, has a lovely open sound, with the midrange brimming with detail. 

 Upgrading valves does improve the sound: it rids the 332 of any hint of harshness; it opens up the sound and deepens the bass; and the separation also becomes better. With the power rectifiers, the 6S19s, 332 owners are pretty much limited - the 6S19P-Bs being the best of the bunch. With the smaller tubes, however, the worlds you oyster. A seemingly endless choice of valves, and at very good prices.


----------



## Godkin

I've been examining the spec sheets for the WE 403A and 403B and, as Hew says, they appear to be direct drop-ins for one another. There're some minor differences but nothing too serious. Here's the spec sheets:

http://www.6v6.co.uk/archive/western...chive/403a.pdf

http://www.6v6.co.uk/archive/western...chive/403b.pdf


----------



## jsaliga

What a great thread. Godkin, your informative posts motivated me to take the plunge and I ordered a DV 332 today.

 Several of the tubes you mentioned in the course of this thread are not readily available. But I wanted to get some tubes to get me started so I bought some Svetlana 6S19P-Vs and 6J1P-EVs.

 I will be trying this amp with AKG K701s, Beyerdynamic DT 880s, and Sennheiser HD650s.

 It should be a lot of fun.

 --Jerome


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't heard the 6J1P-EV but using the M8100 as my reference, the 403A is a step above it. If I knew how good the Western Electric 403A was going to sound in the DV I would still have bought them even at 50/pair. As it stands I got them at 11/pair on ebay including shipping. They are also available at http://www.tubesandmore.com for 20/pair._

 

Thanks hew, that was a very helpful post. I just ordered a pair of Western Electric 403As from the source you provided. I think I'll have enough with the other tubes I bought to get off to a good start with this amp when it arrives.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Good on you, Jsaliga. Great to have another 332 owner on board. I have the HD650s, and the 332 drives them effortlessly.

 The SVETLANAs are excellent tubes. So too are the WE 403As. Just keep looking about, especially on E-Bay, because you can get some great bargains.


----------



## laxx

Hey guys, I got a question. Do you guys leave your phones plugged in when you turn the amp on? Or do you have it unplugged, turn it on, then plug it in.

 Also, do you unplug before you turn it off? Or do you just leave them plugged in?

 I should be getting mine tomorrow, but I've never used a tube amp before, so I'm a bit curious.


----------



## Godkin

I keep them plugged in all the time, Laxx. No problems yet - touch wood.


----------



## munchkin

Hi everyone, I've been lurking on these forums for a few months now.. this is my first post..

 Just got the darkvoice 332 to go along with my k701's.. What tube combinations do you guys recommend with the k701's? o


----------



## Godkin

Hi Munchkin. Welcome along.

 The choice of the larger, rectifing valves is quite limited. Stay away form the Chinese 6S19s, not bad but certainly not the best. Go for the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs or the ULYANOVSK made 6S19P-Vs. Both are about the best you can get, as they are the more highly engineered verisons of the 6S19P.

 With the smaller, signal valves the choice is almost infinite. As with everything, the choice is highly subjective. The Russian 6J1P is always a good starting point, as is the better engineered 6J1P-V. Personally, I've found these to hum quite badly in the 332, but I may just have bought from a bad batch. 

 The western equivalents are, in my opinion, better. There are a whole list of these, but the more widely available ones are the 5654 and 6AK5 (add "W" for better versions), the EF95, and the upgraded M8100 or its military spec brother the CV4010. Less widely available, but highly recommended here, are the WESTERN ELECTRIC 403A and 403B.

 Hope this helps, and good luck.


----------



## laxx

I just got mine in last night. I left it on over night to burn in, but initial listening impressions were good. They did wonders for my k701's, adding better bass impact and a full-bodied sound all while remaining very detailed and airy. I did find it a bit bass heavy and harsh in the top end, but after letting it burn in over night (about 10 hours), the bass bloat gone (at least I think it is, I only spent 10 minutes listening in the morning before leaving for work). I'm very impressed with it so far and will be ordering some tubes to go soon. =]

 I'm looking at the Russian 6S19P-V and the WE 403a's, all due to recommendations here.

 I have yet another question. How long do you leave the amp off before changing tubes?


----------



## Godkin

At least an hour I'd say, Laxx. But preferably more.


----------



## laxx

Have you ever tried the preamp out yet? I always thought it was a loop out. =T I connnected it to my Aria and then realized it was a preamp out, lol. I only have 1 word to describe it... disgusting. Maybe it doesn't work correctly this way, but I'm gonna try again tonight. Last night, I had the DV volume at 100% and used the Aria's volume knob, tonight, i'll try leaving the Aria at 100% (as a power amp woudl be) and using the DV's volume knob. Maybe it'll be better, who knows. If it's really that bad, I'm planning on soldering it into a loop out instead of a preamp out.

 Also, has anyone tried to fit the Alps RK27 pot in yet? After reading about the DV's linear pot, I have to agree. Only being able to use up to around 10 o'clock is not fun. =T But I do have to admit, it's dead silent, no hum even at 100% with any of my cans (only tested K701's and SR60's as my HD595's are loaned out).


----------



## laxx

Oh. Anyone here want to sell me some tubes? I'm not really interested in buying packs of 8-10. =T


----------



## Godkin

I can sell you some tubes, Laxx. I've SVETLANAs and ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs. I could also sell you a pair of 6J1P-Vs. PM me if interested.


----------



## jsaliga

I just got word that my DV 332 has shipped and also that some of the tubes I ordered are on the way. 

 I have no idea how long tubes sent from Russia will take to get to the US. But the Western Electric 403As that I ordered should be here in a few days since they were shipped from Arizona.

 The timing for this is terrific. I also have a new Denon DVD-3910 on the way.

 I'm talking a week off work next week and will have lots of new toys to have fun with.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Tubes should take about 7 to 10 days. I've waited up to 4 weeks, but that's not the norm.

 I'm posting a link about how to identify Russian tubes from their logos:

http://www.ominous-valve.com/russtube.html


----------



## etys rule

I have only now swapped the stock Chinese tubes for the Russian 6S19P-V's. I was initially concerned with the hum, but after a few hours burning in they are SWEET. I also swapped the Chinese buffer tubes for Philips M8100. I like the way they sound together. Now I would like to hear a few other tubes. If you are interested in the 6S19P-V's, here is the eBay auction for more info. I am only willing to trade at this time. I'd love to hear a US good ol' American tube.


----------



## laxx

Hey Godkin, if you could describe how changing the recitifer tubes sound, I'd love to hear it. If you can also describe how changing the smaller tubes sound, that would be just as nice. =] I'm curious as to what each change affects the sound individually.

 Also, has anyone tried switching pots? I can't get past 9 o'clock with my K701's. =T The DV 336i people say changing the pot to an Alps RK27 does wonders so I was wondering if anyone here has done it yet. I'm pretty sure I'm going to be doing that soon.


----------



## Godkin

Changing tubes at this level rarely bring about massive or dramatic improvements: instead you have subtle changes which, together, result in a more compelling and realistic presentation of music. Changes in both the 6S19s and 6J1s bring about these subtle changes, and these changes differ depending on the tubes you use. 

 The SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs are very tube-like: ambiance - the sense of actually being in the room in which the music was recorded - improves considerably. With the ULYANOVSKs everything becomes crisper and slightly more detailed. Separation of voices and instruments also become noticeably better.

 The 6J1 equivalents also change the sound and, theoretically, more so than the 6S19s. The first tubes I tried were the PHILIPS/MULLARD M8100s - an improved version of the EF95 valve - and what I noticed initially was the bass, which while not much deeper appeared more solidified and well defined. They also seemed more euphonic than the stock 6J1s - meaning they were more tube-like in their presentation. Soundstaging was also better, as was the resolution of fine detail. But most importantly for me, they got rid of that harshness and glassiness which plagued the top-end of the 332.

 Replacing the linear pot is a good idea, Laxx, and the ALPS pots are quite good. One thing that does annoy me about my 332 is the apparently cheap tube sockets, especially for the 6S19s: the valves appear loose and wobble about when touched. The 6J1 sockets don't appear too bad - they grip the valves quite well.

 I've tired of the VOSKHOD 6J1P-EVs. I tried two more sets and they hummed horribly. I popped in a pair of MULLARD EF95s this afternoon, and immediately that gorgeous inky black silence I'd been used to was back. I think I'll stick to European and American tubes from now on.


----------



## etys rule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One thing that does annoy me about my 332 is the apparently cheap tube sockets, especially for the 6S19s: the valves appear loose and wobble about when touched. The 6J1 sockets don't appear too bad - they grip the valves quite well._

 

I second that. Couldn't they have stepped it up. Mine arrived bent every which way. Now if I could only solder. Anyone wanna customize it? I pay in tubes.


----------



## Fitz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *etys rule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I second that. Couldn't they have stepped it up. Mine arrived bent every which way. Now if I could only solder. Anyone wanna customize it? I pay in tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Changing out the tube sockets is relatively major surgery compared to most mods.


----------



## echo1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Changing out the tube sockets is relatively major surgery compared to most mods._

 

I will second that.


----------



## jsaliga

My Darkvoice 332 is here. It should have been here Saturday, but the postal carrier did not even bother to come to the door like they are supposed to. She drove up to my mailbox, put a missed delivery slip in it and then drove off. I watched this from my Kitchen window. So I had to go to the post office today and pick it up.

 I haven't had a lot of time to listen to it. Just a few hours. But even after such a short time I must say that I am very impressed, and with stock tubes. When I first powered it up and plugged in my Beyerdynamic DT 880s I noticed an ever-so-faint hum coming from the right channel. Once I turned up the volume a little I could no longer hear the hum. The good news that the amp has settled down after a few horus and the hum is completely gone. This seems to be consistent with the experiences reported by others.

 Here is the Darkvoice 332 sitting on my stand with my Denon DVD-3910 and AKG K701s:






 And here is a lights-out shot of the tubes taken from a tripod:






 I won't go into the sound too much. I think Godkin and others have done a fine job already in documenting how this amp sounds. I have a lot of different tubes on the way and am looking forward to some tube rolling on this amp.

 That said, I must say that by and large I am impressed with the sound of the amp as it is. My only complaint is that highs seem a little brittle to me. But dang, the bass and midrange extension of this amp is real ear candy. I will also say that if you own a pair of AKG K701s, then have no fear. The Darkvoice 332 and these cans go together splendidly.

 Right now I am listening to Leonard Bernstein conducting the Columbia Symphony Orchestra in Rhapsody in Blue from the Bernstein Century collection. Oh my!! I adore this recording and I must say that my new amp has exposed some delightful elements of this recording that I have never heard before.

 My tastes in music range from the avant garde, to rock, jazz, classical, you name it. So in addition to Bernstein, I also listened to U2 - The Unforgetable Fire, John Coltrane - A Love Supreme, Waylon Jennings - Honky Tonk Heroes, X - Under the Big Black Sun, and The Who - Who's Next.

 I really enjoyed listening to all of this music on my AKG K701s. Don't get me wrong, the Beyers sounded great as well. I just prefer the sound of the K701s over the Beyers. I have not tried out my Sennheiser HD 650s yet -- I'm enjoying the K701s so much right now that it may be a while before I am sufficiently motivated to try another set of cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also want to the thank the seller that I bought this amp from on eBay. I made my purchase through CasqueHiFi. I pepppered the seller with questions and he was prompt, polite, and the product shipped out from China within a few days. It was a very good purchasing experience.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Glad to see the 332 arrived okay, Jsaliga. 

 Your initial comments pretty much mirror my own: deep bass, delightfully open midrange, but the top-end harsh and "brittle" sounding. Glad to say that this can be remedied. When the new tubes arrive try them - especially the smaller signal ones - certainly solved my problems.

 I'm also using a little YAQIN tube buffer (bought in China for £12). I know there are some detractors of this little device, but to my ears it sounds great (also uses 6J1 tubes). Very good with classical music - opens up the soundstage considerably.


----------



## laxx

I got a chance to listen to DT880's this past thursday and I loved the sound with the DV 332. I replaced the stock 6j1 with some mil spec General Electric 5654W/6AK5w and found it to sound great. Godkin is absolutely correct that replacing this tube removes most, if not all of the harshness the stock tubes have. It's also got a bit more bass than the stock 6j1's do, which is what I found the stock tube configuration to be lacking.

 All of my tube sockets are very tight, though 1 of them is ever so slightly croocked. I actually have a very hard time taking the tubes out. =T

 I don't remember if the stock tubes had any hum or not. I do remember there being 0 hum when the volume is all the way down. This remains teh same with the 5654w/6AK5w, but when I get to around 12 o'clock, the hum is noticable and at full volume, very noticable. This doesn't bother me one bit as I can't listen past 9 o'clock with my K701's. =T I'm hoping burning it in a bit more will get rid of this hum, but it doesn't seem likely.

 Once I get the motivation, I'm definitely going to switch the volume pot out for something better. I've even thought about adding a 2nd switched output and adding a 2nd switched input as well. Need to look inside to see if there's room for everything.


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see the 332 arrived okay, Jsaliga._

 

Thanks Godkin, and thanks again for all of the informative posts in this thread. 

  Quote:


 I'm also using a little YAQIN tube buffer (bought in China for £12). I know there are some detractors of this little device, but to my ears it sounds great (also uses 6J1 tubes). Very good with classical music - opens up the soundstage considerably. 
 

I am becoming a believer in some of the hifi products coming out of China. Like you, I feel that the Darkvoice is a lot more amp than I paid for. Now I am seriously eyeing a pair of 845 or 805 based monoblocks for my speaker setup that I have read some good things about.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

The MING-DA MC845 monoblocks are meant to be very impressive.





 And the MC67HA pre-amp is the perfect match.


----------



## jsaliga

Godkin,

 That's the one I've been thinking about. I read a number of very positive comments on these amps over the past few days.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Look like very good amps. 

 But the tubes are meant to be really bad, especially the 6SN7 (Why do Chinese audio companies continue to ruin their equipment with low quality valves?). So budget in good tube replacements. There are plenty of good quality 12AX7s and ECC83s or 12AU7s and ECC82s. But the only reasonably priced 845 is the SHUGUANG at about $49.00 each (RCA originals are around $300.00).


----------



## dfkt

Did any of you fine people have the chance to listen to one of the Woo Audio amps (WA3 or WA6), in comparison to the 332? If so, what were your impressions?

 The Woo's look a lot better in my opinion - but if the 332 sounds better, then the choice is clear which way to go.


----------



## jsaliga

I didn't, but I will tell you that the Woo 6 was one of the amps I was thinking about buying. Taking into account shipping costs the Darkvoice 332 wasn't _that_ much cheaper than the Woo that price would have factored into my thinking.

 The main reason I bought the Darkvoice 332 was because of this thread. Were it not for that, I am almost certain I would have bought a Woo 6.

 --Jerome


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the tubes are meant to be really bad, especially the 6SN7 (Why do Chinese audio companies continue to ruin their equipment with low quality valves?). So budget in good tube replacements. There are plenty of good quality 12AX7s and ECC83s or 12AU7s and ECC82s. But the only reasonably priced 845 is the SHUGUANG at about $49.00 each (RCA originals are around $300.00)._

 

None of that surprises me Godkin, and I am already lining up tubes for these amps. Sure it adds to the cost, but that said there isn't much else out there in the way of similarly priced alternatives in the realm of monoblock tube amps. Products from established names in audio in the West are cost prohibitive for most mere mortals such as myself. I don't want to take out a second mortgage on my home just to feed my audio hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Haven't heard the WOO, but from what I've heard it's a impressive piece of kit. Don't dismiss the 332 on account of looks: it may look plain, but pics don't do it justice. It's prettier in the flesh, and built like a brick craphouse. Sounds fabulous too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Over the past few days, I've been burning in a pair of MULLARD EF95s. I must say, I've under-estimated and under-valued these little tubes, mainly because they're the "standard" version of the M8100s and CV4010s. Sound gorgeous: warm, sweet, euphonic and fluid - as you'd expect from MULLARD - but also very open and detailed. Sound especially good with classical music.

 Jsaliga, keep us updated on the 845 monoblocks. As you say, buying a western equivalent would literally cost you an arm and a leg.


----------



## dfkt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven't heard the WOO, but from what I've heard it's a impressive piece of kit. Don't dismiss the 332 on account of looks: it may look plain, but pics don't do it justice. It's prettier in the flesh, and built like a brick craphouse. Sounds fabulous too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Now that's some solid advice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks, Godkin.


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haven't heard the WOO, but from what I've heard it's a impressive piece of kit. Don't dismiss the 332 on account of looks: it may look plain, but pics don't do it justice. It's prettier in the flesh, and built like a brick craphouse. Sounds fabulous too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Indeed. I appreciate the looks of the Darkvoice, the gentle glow of the tubes reflect off the shiny finish of the amp. 

  Quote:


 Jsaliga, keep us updated on the 845 monoblocks. As you say, buying a western equivalent would literally cost you an arm and a leg. 
 

Will do Godkin. I will probably have an order for the amps in before the weekend. I'm tube hunting on eBay right now.

 --Jerome


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dfkt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that's some solid advice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Absolutely. It's what motivated me to buy the amp. 

 Right now I'm listening to PJ Harvey's debut album, Dry, which features a lot of songs with propulsive drumming and deep bass lines. It sounds terrific on with the Darkvoice amp and my Beyerdynamic DT 880s.






 I want to wait for the Svetlana 6S19P-Vs or Ulyanovsk 6S19P-Bs to get here before I drop in the pair of Western Electric 403As that I have on hand. I am sure it will smooth out the high end a bit and sweeten the sound. I'm looking forward to it.

 I'm on vacation right now, mainly just to decompress from a heavy work schedule for a bit, and I have had my headphones on nearly every waking moment since I got my amp yesterday morning.

 --Jerome


----------



## jsaliga

Surprise, surprise. A pair of Ulyanovsk 6S19P-Bs came in the mail today. My thanks go out to a very kind gentleman from the UK. I pulled all the stock tubes and replaced them with the 6S19P-Bs and a pair of Western Electric 403As that I had on hand and have been listening to the amp for about two hours.






 What a delightful improvement! The harshness in the highs has smoothed out nicely, yet they remain open and three dimensional. The bass has tightend up and is notably firmer. One of the qualities in the stock tubes that I really took notice of yesterday while listening to Sir Colin Davis conducting the BSO in Claude DeBussy's La Mer/Trois Nocturnes, was that some of the passages with really deep bass would start to come apart and sound a bit fuzzy. The new compliment of tubes cured that.

 Right now I am listening to Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Cole Porter Songbook and this fabulous recording has never sounded better.

 I look forward to trying some of the other tubes I have on the way, but I cannot imagine this amp sounding any better with other tubes.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Glad to see the ULYANOVSKs arrived okay. These tubes improve quite considerably as they burn in. So too, I suspect, will the WE403A.


----------



## hew

Just to follow-up on my earlier comments on the WE403A and the Sylvania Gold Labels. Even though I had promised myself I would stop buying tubes after the Sylvanias, I couldn't resist when some WE403Bs turned up on Ebay. They are definitely better than the 403A and rise to the level of the Gold Labels, but with a different presentation. Some may even prefer the 403B to the Gold Labels. 

 Presentation is similar to the 403A but improved on most levels. Tones are more natural, less colored, very liquid and clean sounding. It's like a mirror wiped clean. Where the Gold Labels are the antithesis of thin sounding, the 403Bs tend to be more middle of the road. In terms of the frequency extremes, I would say the Sylvanias are more extended in the bass while the 403Bs are more neutral at both extremes. 

 For those following this thread, please bear in mind a few provisos, as reiterated by Godkin and others. The tubes mentioned in this post are quite rare. If you are going to buy please be patient and apply some restraint when bidding. For the 403Bs, I waited 3 months before a reasonable priced pair showed up on Ebay. Also, even though the differences described above may sound like major improvements, they are not and simply reflect my biases and listening tastes. 

 I had mentioned it before but it's worth mentioning again. If you are into sonically disappearing headphones and your primary source is a computer, I heartily recommend any of these 3 tubes paired with the 6s19p-b/6s19p-v plus proper implementation of the dolby headwrap plugin for foobar. 

 Btw Jsaliga, the 403As should pretty much settle in after about 50 hours or so.


----------



## jsaliga

Well, I'm extremely happy with the amp the way it sounds right now with the 6S19P-Bs and 403As. I have more tubes coming but to be honest I am almost sorry that I bought them. It doesn't hurt to have them I suppose but I am starting to believe that it was about $40 that I really didn't need to spend.

 --Jerome


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw Jsaliga, the 403As should pretty much settle in after about 50 hours or so._

 

Thanks. They have about 10 hours on them already and to my ears are sounding pretty sweet.

 --Jerome


----------



## hew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jsaliga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I'm extremely happy with the amp the way it sounds right now with the 6S19P-Bs and 403As. I have more tubes coming but to be honest I am almost sorry that I bought them. It doesn't hurt to have them I suppose but I am starting to believe that it was about $40 that I really didn't need to spend.

 --Jerome_

 

I am embarass to say how much I spent before discovering these. It's good to have a site like this where we can benefit from the experience of others.


----------



## Godkin

I would love to get my hands on a pair of the 403As or 403Bs. I'll keep an eye out on E-Bay and, hopefully, something will turn up. Don't regret buying the tubes, Jsaliga, it's good to try other combinations, and what one person thinks is the best, you may think otherwise. And anyway, you can always sell them to other 332 owners.

 Another thing you may want to consider is a good quality power cord. I changed mine to a QED Conduit and there was a noticeable improvement in sound quality.


----------



## jsaliga

I paid $20 my pair of 403As, which I thought was reasonable. At the time I also looked for 403Bs but could only find a few on eBay in lots of 4 or more and the prices were fairly steep, so I decided not to buy them.

 I don't really regret buying the other tubes, but something tells me that you do reach a point of diminishing returns and probably reach it fairly quickly with a high quality set of tubes, regardless of their origins. It makes me wonder a little about whether or not we hear a difference simply because we _expect_ to hear a difference when we swap out tubes. Call it placebo effect, or self-fulfilling prophecy if you prefer. 

 That said, I happen to agree with you both that the WE 403A do seem to even out a bit over time....

 ...but is it real or just my imagination? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the WE 403As are a considerable step up from the stock tubes. It will be interesting to compare and contrast the difference between my current slate of tubes and those that are in transit. At the very least it should be a fun exercise.

 --Jerome


----------



## munchkin

just an update on my darkvoice 332.. i'm now using some mullard m8100s and some Svetlana 6S19Ps.. much better than the stock tubes.. everything is tighter and theres more punch to the bass.. really enjoying the amp.. thanks for all the help godkin..

 just as a side note.. i also picked up a pair of denon AH-D5000s.. really nice can.. the darkvoice and the d5000 are pairing up nicely..


----------



## jsaliga

How would you rate the Denons relative to the AKG K701s?

 I've shifted to using my Darkvoice mostly with my K701s and Sennheiser HD 650s and have pretty much put down the Beyerdynamic DT 880s. I still they are great cans for the money, but I find the AKGs and Senns to be far superior choices for this amp. I haven't yet decided which cans I like best with the Darkvoice. It's very close. The presentation with the AKGs is very detailed, and the Senns are expansive, lush. Hard to choose at this point. I enjoy them both.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

Glad to hear it, Munchkin, and thanks.

 I don't think it is placebo, Jsaliga. If something is better engineered, using better quality components and superior craftmanship, then it's logical to suppose that that skill and dedication will be reflected in the sound quality. Generally speaking, where tubes are concerned, the older a tube is the better it will sound, simply because it was the golden era of the tube (50s and 60s), and money was being invested in development and a highly skilled work-force was on hand to build them. The same cannot be said today, in the age of the transistor.


----------



## jsaliga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think it is placebo, Jsaliga. If something is better engineered, using better quality components and superior craftmanship, then it's logical to suppose that that skill and dedication will be reflected in the sound quality._

 

Hi Godkin,

 That was never in question. Keep in mind that I am not making reference to a comparison of stock tubes to any of the higher quality substitutes. I am talking about how the best tubes from Western sources compare to each other. Both you and hew have said yourselves that the differences are quite subtle, and I am merely suggesting that part -- though perhaps not all -- of that subtlety may be a self fulfilling prophecy, brought about by mere virtue of the fact that a change was made. I don't know that for sure, and I haven't done the listening tests with the sheer variety of tubes that some of you have. My only point is that at the highest quality levels, there may not be much a difference in sound quality, at least not enough to justify the stiff price premiums one must pay for some of these tubes. And that is something worth considering for the average buyer.

 To me the fun with this amp isn't to go on a never-ending quest to find the _perfect_ combination of tubes that will lead me to a state of audio bliss (I'm probably there already anyway). Part of it was an experiment to find out how high the sound quality barometer can go with minimal cash outlay. I spent $450 for the amp, delivered to my door, and about another $75 for tubes. I think I did pretty well for myself, to be honest, and there's no question that I have you guys to thank for it. I'll be sure to try the tubes that I have en route, but I really don't see myself going much further with this amp than I already have. I have other fish to fry, as it were. There are a couple of nice 845 monoblocks that I need to get ordered, and to spring for good quality tubes for those, which undoubtedly will be needed.

 This is all great stuff indeed.

 --Jerome


----------



## munchkin

the d5000s are a very nice can.. i only have a few hours break in and they sound really good.. they have just as much detail as the k701s, nice highs (although a little harsh, i've heard this dies down with break in) and great bass.. compared to the k701 they have a warm sound, but it makes them a really "fun" sounding headphone.. the k701 has more mids though.. i've found that on some tracks the vocals can be a bit recessed on the denons.. but have sounded brilliant on the k701..

 i cant compare them to the hd650s cause i've never heard them..


----------



## jsaliga

Thanks munchkin. I should have also asked you about comfort, which to me is as important as how they sound. 

 I love the sound of my AKG K701s, but they are not comfortable to wear for extended periods of time. I always keep my hair cut very short, and that leather headband starts to dig into my scalp after about 40 minutes and I need to take the phones off for a bit. The Sennheiser HD 650s, on the other hand, are the very definition of comfort. I can wear them all day and never feel fatigued or experience any discomfort. Being an owner of the HD 650s and reading Godkin's comments about how they performed with the Darkvoice 332 was one of the main reasons I bought the amp. Fortunately the Darkvoice is also a very good fit for the AKG K701s as well as the Beyerdynamic DT 880s.

 Getting back to the subject of tubes for a moment...I am going to eat some of the words in my earlier post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In spite of my feelings about building massive tube collections to try I could not resist the siren call of a pair of Mullard M8100s that I found for $30. I also managed to find a pair of Western Electric 403Bs that were a shade more expensive. In for a penny, in for a pound I suppose. Don't get the impression that I did it under duress. I bought the tubes because I wanted to and the price was right. And since I raised the question about the possiblity that some of the differences between the best tubes might be in part self-fulfilling prophecy, I figured I owed it to myself out of curiosity to do some listening tests with these other tubes. I think I first balked at the idea when I saw a pair of WE 403Bs for $75, which I think is absurdly high. I paid almost half that, which is much more reasonable for a pair of 1958 NOS WE 403B tubes.

 Happy listening...

 --Jerome


----------



## munchkin

I've been looking for some WE 403Bs myself, but no luck for me.. Hope they sound great! Let us know when you get them..

 By the way, the Denons are really comfortable, look for the thread in the headphone section.. skylab thinks they're the most comfortable headphones he's worn haha..


----------



## jsaliga

I've decided to add a vinyl setup to my audio rig. I have about 250 LPs (but no turntable). So I need multiple inputs. Someone suggested a stereo source switcher and I thought that option over, but instead I decided to buy a Woo 2 with a power tube upgrade to the Tung Sol 5998s. I haven't decided what I will do with the Darkvoice 332 yet. I will at least keep it long enough to compare the sound of the Darkvoice to the Woo 2.

 A batch of 6J1P-EVs I bought on eBay from Russia came in the mail yesterday, though I haven't tried them yet. Still waiting on the 6S19P-Vs.

 --Jerome


----------



## Godkin

The WOO 2 is a lovely looking amp. Interesting to hear how it sounds.


----------



## bimmer116

Hey fellow 332i owner. Does anyone have a spare pair of Ulyanovsk 6S19P-B that I can buy? I current have the Svets, do they sound any different??

 Thanks,

 Mike


----------



## Godkin

The SVETs are excellent tubes, but the ULYANOVSKs are crisper in their presentation. Separation is also better.

 I have some ULYANOVSKs, but live in the UK. If interested, PM me.


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## Godkin

Where the hell is everyone? Probably totally absorbed in listening to their 332.

 Here are some pics I found of the DARKVOICE factory. Some snassy silver 332s - NICE.


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## MaloS

Omg, where do I get a white one?!?!?!

 I might come back to the 332 since it fits one of the headphones on my choice list, and a white one is just so sexy.


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 I might come back to the 332 since it fits one of the headphones on my choice list, and a white one is just so sexy. 
 

You should PM Mike again and see if you can buy it back from him.


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## MaloS

lol, why? I think he is doing very fine with his. Plus these white ones are too sexy to opt going back to a black one.


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## laxx

Huh, if they burn all of them in, I wonder how hot that room is, lol.


----------



## kamal007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Huh, if they burn all of them in, I wonder how hot that room is, lol._

 

useful during winter time


----------



## Godkin

Personally, I've never seen a "white" one. You could always try a PM to one of the dealers.


----------



## chesebert

someone here please sell me some tubes. I already bought some RCA and looking at some WE 403B, but I don't want to buy 8-10 6s19 and I still want to try M8100...

 plz..some of you must have some spare tubes you bought....


----------



## Godkin

I've sent you a PM, Chesebert. What RCAs do you have? I've tried the 6AK5Ws and they were excellent. The M8100s are very good also. I've a pair of TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws running at the minute: combines the lushness and warmth of the M8100s with all the detail of the RCAs. I've ordered some 403Bs from the States - should arrive next week sometime.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_someone here please sell me some tubes. I already bought some RCA and looking at some WE 403B, but I don't want to buy 8-10 6s19 and I still want to try M8100...

 plz..some of you must have some spare tubes you bought...._

 


 I have a bunch of Ulyanovsk 6s19p, used WE403B, and 5x NOS in-box Raytheon 5654 tubes. Send me a PM if you are interested.

 EDIT: two other people have already PMed me. So the tubes might be gone....


----------



## Shahter

Just ordered this amp today. This is will be my first , and I hope the only tube amp , cause I"am going on speaker setup after that .

 Which tubes you"ll recommend me to buy ? I like tight bass and litlle rolled-off highs. Midrange should be a little forward , because of DT990 nature ( 600 ohm however is almost non-recessed on mid )

 Thanks !


----------



## Godkin

The 332 revels in high impedence cans. It should drive the Beyers very well.

 What tubes you choose is highly subjective. The stock Chinese 6J1s are okay, but sound harsh and brittle at times. The EF95, M8100, CV4010 family of valves have a typical MULLARD sound: lush, rich, detailed with packs of ambience, but are anything but forward. The RCA 6AK5Ws are a great valve: less euphonic than the MULLARDs but crisper and clearer. You may want to try these. The TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws lean more towards the MULLARD sound. The Russian 6J1P-EVs are quite foward, but the batch I got hummed like hell.

 As for the large power rectifier valves go for the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs. The SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs are more laid back with bags of ambience.


----------



## Shahter

Thanks for advice Godkin !

 I"ll take a look on e-bay.

 I found this one : 6S19P 

 Is it the same as *6S19P-B* ?


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for advice Godkin !

 I"ll take a look on e-bay.

 I found this one : 6S19P 

 Is it the same as *6S19P-B* ?_

 


 No. The 6S19P-V (looks like 6C19n-B in russian) is the (slightly) higher-quality version of 6S19P.

 If you want the 6S19P, PM me. I might be able to sell you a few.


----------



## Shahter

Thanks cclragnarok ! I"ll take more time for reading/understanding and then will take a decision. Cause I want to do just one and only shoot . I don't want to mess with tubes . I don't have a time for it , and speaker setup is on building list too


----------



## Godkin

The 6S19P is the Russian equivalent of the Chinese 6S19 (although it's a better valve). The 6S19P-B is a mechanically improved or ruggedised version with longer durability.

 Your choices are limited here. While there are plenty of the smaller signal valves, there are only three manufacurers of the 6S19: SVETLANA, ULYANOVSK, and SHUGUANG from China. The ULYANOVSKs are, in my opinion, the best, more attuned to modern ears, but the SVETs are very good also. I sold the last pair of my ULYANOVSKs last night, but I do have some SVETs for sale if you're interested.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks cclragnarok ! I"ll take more time for reading/understanding and then will take a decision. Cause I want to do just one and only shoot . I don't want to mess with tubes . I don't have a time for it , and speaker setup is on building list too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I totally understand. I have switched to using the 6S19P-V. I haven't really noticed any improvement, but I don't have the time to really AB the two, so I decided that I'll just keep using the 6S19P-V for the peace of mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hmm.... I see that you listed Ukraine as one of your locations. Some eBay sellers of the 6S19P-V are from Ukraine, so it might be a better idea to buy from them.

 Just make sure the tubes are marked with "-B" if you want the 6S19P-V. Some eBay sellers seem to have incorrect listings. Some of them say they have the Svetlana tubes, but their pictures show tubes with the Ulyanovsk arrow symbol, and some seem to be selling the 6S19P tubes and calling them 6S19P-V.


----------



## chesebert

Does stock tube really suck in mid-treble?


----------



## laxx

I felt stock tubes had a really "digital" sound to them. It had added a tinny sound to all the frequencies. That's just me though.


----------



## brokensound

You guys weren't kidding about the bass. I had the 336i and stepping up to the 332 is a noticeable difference. The low end are two different leagues. All those claims of the k701 being bass shy are gone.


----------



## Shahter

Ok guys , let's make clear few things .

 DV332 working with 4 tubes :

 2 x 6J1 
 2 x 6C(S)19

 The choise of 6J1 is wide enough (6AK5W , M8100, CV4010 ,WE403B , EF95 etc )
 The choise of 6S19 is limited to few Russians and Chinese tubes .

 Right ?

 I found 6s19-V on ebay , so will probably buy them . *chesebert * , if you don't care to wait I"ll send you the half of my order . i don't need 8-10 tubes too.(let me know)

 Now whats going on about 6J1 family ? Which one you can mark as the best ?

 Aslo which pair is more responisible for sound signature 6s19-V or 6J1 ?

 Thanks !


----------



## Godkin

The 6AK5W is a military spec, upgraded version of the 6AK5. The EF95, M8100 and CV4010 are, basically, the same tube, but the M8100 and CV4010 are better versions, usually with black plates, the CV4010 being the military version of the M8100, designed by MULLARD for the British Ministry of Aviation. The WE403B is a improved version of the WE403A; it has longer life and uses lower voltages.

 Which ones are best? That's all subjective, only your own ears can tell you. I go for the better spec tubes, the 6AK5Ws, the M8100s and CV4010s. In my books, better spec means better sound.

 Both valves alter the sound, but the smaller signal valves alter it more noticeably.


----------



## Shahter

Hi Godkin , thanks for prompt reply as always !

 Can you point me please on the one of those I found. Is there any difference between them ?

6AK5W

RCA 6AK5W

 Thanks !


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brokensound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys weren't kidding about the bass. I had the 336i and stepping up to the 332 is a noticeable difference. The low end are two different leagues. All those claims of the k701 being bass shy are gone._

 

as good as 332's bass its no match for SS still, my old dynahi abs destroys 332 or really any tube amp's bass performance. 332 does have better mid transparency and air though. But if you are a super bass head, tube is probably not for you


----------



## Shahter

*chesebert* , so what you say about my proposal regarding tubes ?


----------



## Godkin

Shahter, generally speaking the older a valve is the better it is. The golden age for valves was the 1950s and 1960s, so a RCA from the 1950s will sound better than one from the 1970s. The RCA 6AK5Ws are excellent valves: crisp and slightly forward in their presentation, but still sweet and airy. I have a pair of JRC 6AK5Ws from 1962 and they sound superb.

 I bought some 6AK5Ws from Anthony Welsh and they're not 6AK5Ws at all (that's an American tube designation), but Soviet 6J1P-EVs from the 1970s. Good valves in many respects, but they hum like hell, even when they're run-in. The Chelmers would be good valves; they are basically re-badged MULLARDs.

 GE and JANs I haven't tried. With GE, try to go for the early valves (from the 1950s and 1960s), the more modern ones, I've heard, sound harsh. I've heard the JAN 6922s (they're the stock tube in the X-CAN V3) and again they're forward in character, and in the wrong set-up sound lean and sharp. The TUNG-SOLs are very good tubes, very like the MULLARDS: lush and rich, open and airy, but with a more recessed treble than the RCAs.

 The best thing to do, after taking the suitable advice, is to jump in and experiment.


----------



## Shahter

Yes, I"ll give a try. I already ordered some svetlana and ulyanovsk to compare, and now I"ll take RCA and TUNG-SOLs .

 BTW all RCAs on those links is 6AK5 and not 6AK5*W* - it's not the same ??? Also the prices vary with the same? tube ??? From 1.5$ to 14.90$ ??? I"am very confused with those 6AK5s series ...

 Can you confirm that this tube is the tube to buy ? :






 Also about Tung Sol ....

 I found 2 with very big price differents :

Pentode Tube Tung-Sol and 6AK5W VINTAGE ELECTRONIC

 So which one I should get ????


----------



## Godkin

Don't be confused: the 6AK5 and 6AK5W are, technically, exactly the same valve. The "W" designates a better engineered version. It's the same as the 5654: simply add a "W" and you get a higher quality valve. You will usually pay more for the "W" versions. I understand how you feel, there's is a bewildering ammount of valve designations. 

 Yes, this is the tube to buy: the EF95 on the box is the European equivalent of the 6AK5.

 The first TUNG-SOL tube is a very fine example, dated from 1960. But try to find pairs of valves, not that matching is that crucial with a headphone amp, but simply because it saves you having to shop around for another valve. The second of you tubes is okay as far as the text goes, but the picture they use is NOT of a 6AK5W. PM the seller to make sure.


----------



## Shahter

Thanks Godkin !

 The second TUNG-SOL is 19.95 and minimum order is 3pcs. So it's overkill for me ...

  Quote:


 But try to find pairs of valves, not that matching is that crucial with a headphone amp, but simply because it saves you having to shop around for another valve 
 

All the tubes i seen there were always not in limited amount. So I think t's possible to combine 2pcs or just specify the amount ...

 So you saying that the first Tung Sol for just 2.5$ is good one ? I still can't understand then why there is almost x10 price difference .....

 And sorry , just forgot to ask you about this tube :

NOS AMPEREX

 Thanks !


----------



## Godkin

AMPEREX are excellent tubes. They were an American company, based in New York. They were taken over by PHILIPS in the 1950s. This would explain why it says "Made in Britain" on the tube. PHILIPS also owned MULLARD, so I would suggest that the AMPEREX valve is actually a re-badged MULLARD with the American designation of 6AK5. But still it would be a good valve, very rare, it's the first time I've seen one.

 Price differences between tubes are governed by what the seller expects to get for them, or on E-Bay how many people are bidding. For instance, in the past I've bought 4xM8100s for £3.00, yet I've paid £12.00 for a pair of RCA 6AK5Ws. If a seller thinks he can get the cash, he'll put a high price on them.


----------



## Shahter

Ok , great ! Your info helps me a lot m8. And I"am sure that for many who read this topic too.

 Depending on the coversation with selleres I"ll take one of these :

NOS AMPEREX or Mullard 5654/6AK5


----------



## chesebert

Few updates with the tubes. The 403B just got here and they certain tamed the high end a bit, but I think most of the problem is due to K701. I think I may still need to burn in for a few days. I am anxious to get Russian tubes. I hope it solves most of the K701 sibilance problem. 

 I had an interesting conversation with the owner of Dark Voice last night and I loose no opportunity to complain to him the lack of quality in the tube socket. 

 He acknowledged that the tube socket is of inferior quality and would much prefer to spend more money to buy the higher quality ones; but he want me to understand those socket are the best ones made in China. He is frustrated with the fact that he has no connection/know-how to source the sockets from overseas. 

 Well, if anyone got any connection to some good tube socket manufacturer, do let DV know. I certainly wouldn't mind paying an extra $10 for the better sockets.


----------



## brokensound

Does anyone else have there darkvoice running hot? Mine gets quiet hot to the touch after 15 minutes or so of use. Is that normal? Then one day, the right channel lost sound untill i ran a fan over the dv to cool it.


----------



## laxx

It gets really hot when I play it really loud, but normally, it's not too bad. Warmer than I'd like, but nothing unbearable. Try turning your volume down a bit, it doesn't get as hot. =T


----------



## chesebert

ok..I think the stupid 4-5khz sibilance is somewhat gone now, thanks to a pair of NOS 403B I got today..after 10hr burnin the sibilance is almost gone now.....If only the other pair of tubes would get here...oh well. 

 Amazing how crappy the stock tubes are, they sounded better without burn-in...LMAO...yes they got progressively worse with burnin... I hope those USSR tubes will cure the K701 sibilance issue once and for all


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brokensound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone else have there darkvoice running hot? Mine gets quiet hot to the touch after 15 minutes or so of use. Is that normal? Then one day, the right channel lost sound untill i ran a fan over the dv to cool it._

 

mine ran hot, but I had it on continuous for 1 week and it was fine. I did raise the DV off the table with some Ayre blocks; I think they help both the sound and ventilation.


----------



## Godkin

Most valve amps run hot. Cetainly, my DV does. Voltages run a bit different in UK, but within acceptable tolerances. I was thinking of getting a variable transformer - control the voltages precisely.

 Isolating the 332 would improve sound quality. The case rings horribly, so anything to reduce that would be good in my books.


----------



## chesebert

finally got the output tubes...yes the stock tubes were fubared. The second I changed to the new tubes.. all my previous sibilance problem were solved. Everything sounds quite real... double thumbs down for the stock tubes that went bad after 100 hrs


----------



## chesebert

Anyone got some spare Svetlana 6s19p-b they want to sell?


----------



## Godkin

Chesebert, I've sent you a PM.


----------



## Shahter

Got my DV today !!!

 Wow , big surprise for me guys !! I didn't expected such things from this amp ! This is my bigest surprise on my short-long road in HP world ! Yes this is my words to describe my ffelings ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The bass ? Very good amount of bass , and I really like it !
 The middle ? Who told that DT990 have reccessed mids ? Not with this amp ! 
 Highs - just right there !

 And I working now straight out of the box and with stock tubes ! I can't believe it ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, the sound is warm ! I will even say - very warm ! But it's what I like ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I"ll say without any doubts at least with DT990 600 ohm - great synergy !


----------



## MaloS

Nice, and combined with the Stello DA100!

 This amp is one of the biggest bangs for the bug on head-fi probably.


----------



## Shahter

Definitely !!

 Btw the output on the back panel it's pre-out or line out ?


----------



## Godkin

Glad to see everything arrived OK, Shahter. The DV is a great little amp, especially with high impedience cans. I've had mine for about 8 months now and I never get tired listening to it. I have an MF X-CAN V3 and the 332 blows it out of the water.

 I've changed over the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs back to the SVETLANAs. These tube sound gorgeous. Less forward than the ULYANOVSKs, but as sweet as honey, open and detailed, with very deep bass. With a pair of 1954 TUNG-SOL 6AK5W black-plates it's a match made in heaven.


----------



## laxx

It's preamp out. I still want to try it, but I don't own a power amplifier.

 It was very surprising when I first got mine as well. It's much heavier than I expected. =]


----------



## Shahter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see everything arrived OK, Shahter. The DV is a great little amp, especially with high impedience cans. I've had mine for about 8 months now and I never get tired listening to it. I have an MF X-CAN V3 and the 332 blows it out of the water.

 I've changed over the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs back to the SVETLANAs. These tube sound gorgeous. Less forward than the ULYANOVSKs, but as sweet as honey, open and detailed, with very deep bass. With a pair of 1954 TUNG-SOL 6AK5W black-plates it's a match made in heaven._

 

I ordered both Ulyanovsk and Svetlana to play with , so we"ll see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's preamp out. I still want to try it, but I don't own a power amplifier._

 

Thanks for info m8 !


----------



## Shahter

And a few pictures for you guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :

 Synergy






 Night






 Salute






 Movement


----------



## MaloS

Why doesn't your dt990 manufacture glow?


----------



## Shahter

Because they are solid state


----------



## MaloS

I'll liquidate them for you =]


----------



## Shahter

Stay away from them ,they are HOT


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Glad to see everything arrived OK, Shahter. The DV is a great little amp, especially with high impedience cans. I've had mine for about 8 months now and I never get tired listening to it. I have an MF X-CAN V3 and the 332 blows it out of the water.

 I've changed over the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs back to the SVETLANAs. These tube sound gorgeous. Less forward than the ULYANOVSKs, but as sweet as honey, open and detailed, with very deep bass. With a pair of 1954 TUNG-SOL 6AK5W black-plates it's a match made in heaven._

 

hmm..I thought Svetlana and WE 403B were match made in haven. I guess I will have to give the Tung-Sol a try


----------



## laxx

I don't think Godkin has WE 403b's yet. He ordered them last week so they might not have gotten to him yet. Reminds me of an eBay action I won 2 weeks ago. They finally shipped it out today, 12 days after I paid for it.

 Hopefully, the 403b's don't disappoint, I bought some yesterday.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think Godkin has WE 403b's yet. He ordered them last week_

 

you will be blown away with 403B and Sve. It's not the best in bass performance, but the midrange and HF extension is beyond great. You will have to spend some serious $$ to beat that. but if you are a bass head, this combo will not help you. Don't get me wrong, the bass is not bad, its just lack that visceral feel, maybe you won't notice that on high Z cans, but its pretty obvious on low z cans, although the abs difference is still small, but it was obvious too me at least.


----------



## laxx

I was listening last night and after using the RS-2's for a few weeks, I felt the K701's bass had no impact. I was starting to get depressed over it. =[ Then I remembered cclragnarok said that the GE 5654W's have light bass. They're have less bass than the stock chinese tubes, but it is better. I felt the stock chinee tubes had flabby bass. I'm not looking for more bass, just more impact. That would be awesome if the 403b's have it.


----------



## Godkin

I bought some 403Bs about 2 weeks ago. They haven't arrived yet. I've also done a deal with Chesebert for some 403Bs. But from what I've read they're one of the best in the 332. Deep, but not too deep bass, and delightful midrange sounds good to me.


----------



## Shahter

Btw , can somebody give a little explanation on how to remove-insert tubes ? Will be very helpfull , just before I "ll get my new tubes


----------



## Godkin

Easy, Shahter. Just get a piece of tissue - never touch a valve with your bare hands - and gently rock the old valve from side-to-side, while pulling it upwards. The valve should come free. Then simply match the legs of the new valve with the holes of the socket and push it into place.


----------



## Shahter

Great , sounds really easy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Godkin !


----------



## archsam

Hi All:

 Long time reader, first time poster. Please be gentle!

 My 332 arrived earlier this week along with a pair of Mullard M8100 and some Russian 6S19P-Vs. I have also ordered an Isotek premium mains cable to go with the 332. Right from the start my Sen HD595 has never sounded so good!

 I read that some of you 332 owners has experienced humming with the 332, often when tube rolling. I have also noticed a hum in the right channel that is unaffected by volume setting, and I wonder for those of you who experienced similar humming 1) whether the hum has gone away, and 2) how long did it take to go away.

 cheers


----------



## d0td0t

Tested my MS2i with my fren's Darkvoice, din like it.. sounded boring and slightly flat.. He has stock tubes on them thou. Or jus tat darkvoice dun match well with MS2i?


----------



## Godkin

Archsam, good to see you've got some good replacement valves. And the 332 also appreciates a good quality mains cable.

 Humming does seem to occur with some valves. Sometimes it goes away as the valve burns in (about 50 hours or so) and sometimes it doesn't. It tends to diminish a bit, but is still annoyingly audible. I've had SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws and Soviet 6J1P-EVs and they've hummed like hell. Most of the valves I've bought, however, have been fine. 

 The M8100s should work well; I haven't come across a bad pair yet. The 6S19P-Bs are also good in this respect. You problem sounds like a duff valve. If it doesn't go away, wip it out and replace it.


----------



## archsam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Archsam, good to see you've got some good replacement valves. And the 332 also appreciates a good quality mains cable.

 Humming does seem to occur with some valves. Sometimes it goes away as the valve burns in (about 50 hours or so) and sometimes it doesn't. It tends to diminish a bit, but is still annoyingly audible. I've had SYLVANIA 6AK5Ws and Soviet 6J1P-EVs and they've hummed like hell. Most of the valves I've bought, however, have been fine. 

 The M8100s should work well; I haven't come across a bad pair yet. The 6S19P-Bs are also good in this respect. You problem sounds like a duff valve. If it doesn't go away, wip it out and replace it._

 

Thanks Godkin for the advice. I will try to be patient with the burn in and, fingers cross, the humming will go away.

 Since the humming is not affected by volumn level, I presume the signal tubes are the cause - so if the hum dosen't go away, does it indicate that I should swap out the Mullards? Shame that I only got one pair (as opposed to the 6S19B-Vs, which I have half a dozen spares).

 The curse of Head-fi creeps up quickly; The 332 hasn't even broken in yet and I am already eyeing a pair of AKG K701 and Senn HD650. This will surely end badly...


----------



## Godkin

Yes, it's most likely to be one of the signal tubes. The stock Chinese tubes are pretty cheap and not very well made. Try switching the tubes around and if the humming moves then you'll know for sure.

 The MULLARD M8100s are very good valves. If you can't get your hands on another pair, look for other members of the same tube family - the CV4010 and EF95. The CV4010 is the better of the two - "CV" stands for Common Valve, a British military system of classification - and is basically the same as the M8100 only in military guise. Also experiment with the US tubes: 5654/6AK5Ws from the likes of RCA, TUNG-SOL and SYLVANIA, or the 403As or 403Bs from WESTERN ELECTRIC; the latter is especially good.

 The 332 seems to work best with higher impedance cans - the SENNHEISERs and BEYER-DYNAMICs. I've the HD650s and the synergy between the two is perfect. The K701s should work well also.


----------



## Denver Max

What open can would you guys recommend to compliment the Darkvoice 332 for metal? Just curious. I was interested in the Proline 2500 but have been steered away from tube amps with the 2500 for some reason...


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *d0td0t* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tested my MS2i with my fren's Darkvoice, din like it.. sounded boring and slightly flat.. He has stock tubes on them thou. Or jus tat darkvoice dun match well with MS2i?_

 

HF-1 sounds pretty good with DV332, although not quite as good as with K701. K701+332+Saturn with good recording is holographic to say to least


----------



## Godkin

Finally, recieved my pair of WE 403Bs this morning; made in September 1959 with characteristic rectanglar getters. Initial impressions seem to bear out Chesebert's comments. Midrange is their forte: the clarity is simply fantastic, it's as if a veil has been lifted off the music. Bass is lighter than the RCAs or TUNG-SOLS but since I'm not a bass freak anyway that's no big problem.


----------



## jdimitri

Hey folks, can you point me to the place to get one of these babies?


----------



## brokensound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jdimitri* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey folks, can you point me to the place to get one of these babies?_

 

Try ebay or the buy/sell forum here. Watch out for shipping on ebay though, it can be heart breaking.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally, recieved my pair of WE 403Bs this morning; made in September 1959 with characteristic rectanglar getters. Initial impressions seem to bear out Chesebert's comments. Midrange is their forte: the clarity is simply fantastic, it's as if a veil has been lifted off the music. Bass is lighter than the RCAs or TUNG-SOLS but since I'm not a bass freak anyway that's no big problem._

 

I am glad you like it. WE403B along with the the Russian tubes elevate the 332 to above and beyond many tubes amp that cost multiples of DV's price. Now the bass issue can be resolved with a better power cable, better source and the choice of cans. 

 By which we come to this point - I don't understand why people still buy 336i since IMO 332 is in the same class as 337 but not price-wise; the quintessential definition of what a bargain is. I even drove R10 very successfully with the 332...R10's midrange and high end is just milky smooth...like you are there, the overpowering bass was 'tamed' by the semi-bass shy 332...LOL...overall stunning.

 Another Chinese bargain (not so much a bargain when you buy in the states) is Cayin, which I planned to buy but the dealer was OOS at the time. I will probably pick one up and compare the 2. 
 OTL vs SET...interesting.


----------



## Godkin

Be interested to read your conclusions on both amps, Chesebert.


----------



## brokensound

Can someone recommend me a good power cable for the 332 that won't break the bank. Thanks.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By which we come to this point - I don't understand why people still buy 336i since IMO 332 is in the same class as 337 but not price-wise; the quintessential definition of what a bargain is._

 

Reality check for you:
 336 costs $310 incl. shipping
 332 costs $490 incl. shipping
 so the 332 is 58% more expensive than the 336. Is it 58% better? No it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could've bought the 332 but I choose the 336 because it's simply better bang for your buck. I also like the looks of the 336 better.


----------



## Godkin

Brokensound, I use the QED Conduit for the 332. Great power lead for the money. Don't know how much it cost in the US, but over here it's about £35.

 I'm not going to get drawn in to which is better - the 332 or 336. I know guys who have heard both and, according to them, the 332 comes out on top. Whether it is 58% better I don't know. All I do know is the 332 is great bang for the buck (or pound, or euro). It destroys my MF X-CAN V3 in every respect, not just the stock V3 - which is a big disappointment - but the modded one as well - £250 is stock form and add £100 on top for mods. No, I'll just stick to DV amps in future - in whatever guise they come in. Every which way, they are excellent value for money.


----------



## Wildthing

Hello,

 sorry for my bad english.....but we come from Germany / Stuttgart....last week we have to bought a darkvoice 332 from ebay about seller "3C-Store" for 400 $ or 297 € with shipping.....and we have the Headphone Sennheiser HD 580 precision and the HD 650 and we have one question.......how long is the life of the tubes?!?........and Godkin....you bought the tubes "Mullard".....where?!?.....best wishes Wolfgang...


----------



## spacemanspliff

do an ebay search for the tubes. there is a good source in sweden that I got some Mullards from on ebay. tubes should last a good while but I am not an expert at all lol.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reality check for you:
 336 costs $310 incl. shipping
 332 costs $490 incl. shipping
 so the 332 is 58% more expensive than the 336. Is it 58% better? No it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could've bought the 332 but I choose the 336 because it's simply better bang for your buck. I also like the looks of the 336 better._

 

Reality Check:
 sonus faber guarneri is $15,000
 VSA VR-1 is $1,000
 So guarneri is 15,000% more expensive than VR-1. Is it 15,000% better? No its not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable & Cobra tonearm is $85,000
 VPI Scout is $2,000
 So Caliburn is 42,500% more expensive than Scout. Is it 42,500% better? No its not: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ray B52 is $5,000
 Headphone out on my NAD C320BEE (or any receiver) is FREE
 So B52 is infinitely more expensive than NAD. Is it infinitely better? No it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This type of comparison is a waste of time IMO 
 The best bang for your buck is to just use your receiver/CDP headphone out.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wildthing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 sorry for my bad english.....but we come from Germany / Stuttgart....last week we have to bought a darkvoice 332 from ebay about seller "3C-Store" for 400 $ or 297 € with shipping.....and we have the Headphone Sennheiser HD 580 precision and the HD 650 and we have one question.......how long is the life of the tubes?!?........and Godkin....you bought the tubes "Mullard".....where?!?.....best wishes Wolfgang...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The life of the Chinese tube? for me its more like 3 days. They went bad the week I got them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which is a good thing, cuz they are crap.


----------



## Godkin

Wildthing, you wouldn't be disappointed with the 332 - HD580 and HD650 combo. A match made in heaven.

 E-Bay is a good source for tubes, but be careful and make sure you you understand the valves you're buying. Tubes to look out for: 6AK5, 6AK5W, EF95, M8100, CV4010, 403A, 403B, etc. The large tubes, limited in what you can buy - go for 6S19P-Bs either form SVETLANA or ULYANOVSK.

 Tube life: depends on tube - longer life varieties can last anywhere between 5,000hrs and 10,000hrs. Bad quality valves, like the 6J1s that come with the 332, can go at any time. If you get a good pair all well and good, but they can go POP and any time.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reality Check:
 sonus faber guarneri is $15,000
 VSA VR-1 is $1,000
 So guarneri is 15,000% more expensive than VR-1. Is it 15,000% better? No its not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn turntable & Cobra tonearm is $85,000
 VPI Scout is $2,000
 So Caliburn is 42,500% more expensive than Scout. Is it 42,500% better? No its not: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ray B52 is $5,000
 Headphone out on my NAD C320BEE (or any receiver) is FREE
 So B52 is infinitely more expensive than NAD. Is it infinitely better? No it's not. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This type of comparison is a waste of time IMO 
 The best bang for your buck is to just use your receiver/CDP headphone out._

 

I was comparing the 336 and 332. No need to exaggerate my 58% point which you shouldn't take that literal.
 Remember when the 332 wasn't out yet, you guys were raving about the 336. It's a really nice tube amp.
 So now the 332 is here, it's stupid to still buy a 336? Typical tunnel vision of an audio freak. You're not alone. The 336 threads have quickly become very quiet. That says it all. People seem to ignore that the 332 is much more expensive. My point is there are also economical factors you know.

 Most will agree an amp is not as important as cans or a dac.
 When I compare the dac's headphone out to the Darkvoice, I mainly hear a difference (which I like), not so much better. There is a slight increase in detail quality but you have to look for it.
 I suspect the difference can be contributed to the fact I'm comparing an opamp to a tube amp. Comparing tube amps will probably even be harder.
 Hell, I did tube rolling. It was a major challenge to find any differences at all!
 Maybe my ears aren't trained enough or not good enough. I would consider myself lucky knowing I got equipment which matches my ears' capability.

 The last thing I will upgrade now is the amp. I'm sure the 332 will be better, no argument. But it can never be much better this, much better that. That's just illusional.


----------



## brokensound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was comparing the 336 and 332. No need to exaggerate my 58% point which you shouldn't take that literal.
 Remember when the 332 wasn't out yet, you guys were raving about the 336. It's a really nice tube amp.
 So now the 332 is here, it's stupid to still buy a 336? Typical tunnel vision of an audio freak. You're not alone. The 336 threads have quickly become very quiet. That says it all. People seem to ignore that the 332 is much more expensive. My point is there are also economical factors you know.

 Most will agree an amp is not as important as cans or a dac.
 When I compare the dac's headphone out to the Darkvoice, I mainly hear a difference (which I like), not so much better. There is a slight increase in detail quality but you have to look for it.
 I suspect the difference can be contributed to the fact I'm comparing an opamp to a tube amp. Comparing tube amps will probably even be harder.
 Hell, I did tube rolling. It was a major challenge to find any differences at all!
 Maybe my ears aren't trained enough or not good enough. I would consider myself lucky knowing I got equipment which matches my ears' capability.

 The last thing I will upgrade now is the amp. I'm sure the 332 will be better, no argument. But it can never be much better this, much better that. That's just illusional._

 


 This is an audiophile forum, so it's only natural we'll rave about possible gain in sound quality. Isn't that the way it's always been? Spend big bucks for little improvement. If you're not interested, then you're lucky. Otherwise we'll continue our quest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now if only that wallet wouldn't deflate so quickly...


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *brokensound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an audiophile forum, so it's only natural we'll rave about possible gain in sound quality. Isn't that the way it's always been? Spend big bucks for little improvement. If you're not interested, then you're lucky. Otherwise we'll continue our quest. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now if only that wallet wouldn't deflate so quickly..._

 

I respect an audiophile's motives. I expect an audiophile will also understand people who aren't lost (yet). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Or is this an audiophile-only forum?


----------



## spacemanspliff

I have the MF DAv V2 with the DV 332 on Mullards + Chinese "upgraded" big tubes w/ lol SPORTAPROS!! 

 IT SOUNDS GOOD!!

 funny too. Reminds me a bit of the HF-1s.

 BTW I got a shipment of Sylvania (I think, pretty sure anyway) big tubes coming in later this month if anyone needs a pair.


----------



## Godkin

Is that a SYLVANIA equivalent for the 6S19P-Bs? The closest I ever came was a bunch of GE voltage stablising tubes - the 7233, the A2293 and the CV4079 - but the pin connections are slightly different.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Most will agree an amp is not as important as cans or a dac.
 When I compare the dac's headphone out to the Darkvoice, I mainly hear a difference (which I like), not so much better. There is a slight increase in detail quality but you have to look for it.
 I suspect the difference can be contributed to the fact I'm comparing an opamp to a tube amp. Comparing tube amps will probably even be harder.
 Hell, I did tube rolling. It was a major challenge to find any differences at all!
 Maybe my ears aren't trained enough or not good enough. I would consider myself lucky knowing I got equipment which matches my ears' capability._

 

Actually amp ranks next to source in its importance, IMO (I guess you have never heard B52 driving KSC75 before ....to the uninitiated, that's a $5500 amp driving a $15 headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On the tube rolling issue, I envy your tin ear because every time I roll the rube, the differences are profound. Of course rest of my systems are fairly up to snuff to allow me to hear the differences. 

 336 vs 332 was no comparison IMO - I was using K701; I spent at least 4 hours by myself, in a closed room with my own music when I tried to decide which one I want. 332 is clearly a level better than 336, ie many many veils lifted


----------



## spacemanspliff

Yes. The 332 is on another level compared to most amps. The only one I have heard which rivals it is the SQ-84 which is a 34 lb monster of an amp.


----------



## Gradofan2

Impressed by the all the rave reviews of this amp, I just ordered the DV 332... and... I'm now shopping for tubes.

 Does anyone have any of the tubes recommended in this thread for sale?

 If so, please PM me with the types and prices.

 Thanks,
 GF2


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

Hi 332 owners!

 I'm eagerly awaiting my 332, i've ordered through ebay after reading through this thread and being impressed with all i've heard. I contacted a seller and i am going to be sent a sexy white amp! I think it was Godkin who posted the pics from the factory showing them, and i fell in love, hopefully it will look the part next to my silver cambridge azur. 

 I'll be impatiently listening out for the gravel crunch of the delivery bloke coming up the drive way, can't wait to see what this beast can do. Better go tube shopping.

 Dub


----------



## Wildthing

@godkin......please what ist the different from Mullard M8100 to 8100S.....we found in ebay the Mullard M8100....many thanks for you Feedback....best wishes Wolfgang


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the tube rolling issue, I envy your tin ear because every time I roll the rube, the differences are profound. Of course rest of my systems are fairly up to snuff to allow me to hear the differences._

 

Yeah but I judged too soon. Meanwhile I do hear significant differences:
burn-in before you start tube rolling!


----------



## Godkin

Wildthing, haven't heard of the M8100S, but the "S" designation usually denotes a special variety of the valve. Whether this is the case with the M8100s, I don't know - considering the M8100 is a special, military grade type of the EF95.

 A "white" 332, now that's "sexy".


----------



## Wildthing

Hi Godkin........thank you for information!!!.....but we have a problem to buy of the tubes....i want the configuration of you.....the Mullard M8100S and the Svetlana !!!......can you sold for the tubes for me!!!.....many thanks and best wishes Wolfgang 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wildthing, haven't heard of the M8100S, but the "S" designation usually denotes a special variety of the valve. Whether this is the case with the M8100s, I don't know - considering the M8100 is a special, military grade type of the EF95.

 A "white" 332, now that's "sexy"._


----------



## Godkin

Wildthing, unfortunately I don't have any of the SVETLANAs left - I've sold them all to other 332 owners. There seems to be a shortage of them - I haven't seen them on E-Bay for a while. Plenty of the ULYANOVSKs though. They're excellent tubes, so go for them. Then if you see any of the SVETLANAs, snap them up. Good luck.


----------



## Gradofan2

Beware... several vendors on eBay are attempting to sell Voskhod, Ulyanovsk and other tubes as Svetlana's - watch the logos carefully, and always confirm that the tubes you are about to buy have the Svetlana logos.

 I even had one confess, he hadn't looked at the tubes to check their logos - he just put them up, assuming they were Svetlanas. 

 Caveat Emptor...


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

I'm in the market for tubes if anyone has any they want to get rid of. Everything considered, particularly interested in some Ulyanovsks, if i remeber correctly somebody said they have great seperation. I'm trying to pick apart some recordings at the moment, might help.

 Dub


----------



## meloman

Hi Folks, 
 Been reading your extremely interesting comments here for the last couple of weeks. Those comments made me buy a 332 and believe it or not, it got in TODAY! 
 I'm impressed! Ok, I have no other amps to compare to, this one has been powered for merely 3 hours and it uses the stock Chinese tubes and I must say I'm impressed, really am. I had the Sennheiser 650 for a couple of months and I was looking for something decent to drive it; I looks like I found it!

 Cheers from sunny Belgium.


----------



## laxx

Glad you like it. Now replace your tubes as the stock ones sounded pretty bad to me.


----------



## Godkin

Welcome Meloman. The 332 is a cracker of an amp. And from now on it only gets better: DARKVOICE recommend around 50 hrs to run the amp in, but I found out that it was much longer - about 200-300 hrs. You've got the right cans for the 332. I have the 650s as well and they sound sweet. Next comes the tube rolling. And the 332 gets better again.


----------



## meloman

Yes, I do realise that at some stage I'll have to replace the standard tubes with better ones. Thing is that _even_ with standard tubes and no burn-in time at all, it sounds fabulous. 

 I did a fair bit of reading about tube rolling here and I think I got the most important details about that (I may get back to you guys though...) but there's one thing which is not exactly clear to me. Do I wait for the amp to get past the burn-in time before starting the tube rolling or do you recommend to do it right away ?


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

Sigh. Some WE403b's on ebay with no bidders that look to be going cheap (Here) US seller that doesn't take paypal though. I can't be bothered sorting out a money order, too much for my brain to handle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does anyone have a link for somewhere to check date codes of Western Electric tubes, i couldn't find anything. Also, has anyone tried Northern Electric 403b's? The canadian subsidiary of WE as i understand it.


----------



## Godkin

Whatever takes you fancy, Meloman. There are no set rules. I always think it's better to listen to the 332 on the stock tubes, get to know the amp, it's strengths and weaknesses. Then when you replace them you can assess the changes the new valves make.


----------



## meloman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whatever takes you fancy, Meloman. There are no set rules. I always think it's better to listen to the 332 on the stock tubes, get to know the amp, it's strengths and weaknesses. Then when you replace them you can assess the changes the new valves make._

 

That makes sense indeed. My doubt was also partly based on the possible necessary break-in time of other (than tubes) parts.


----------



## Godkin

Good point, Meloman. But it doesn't stop you starting to look for better valves.


----------



## bOUddha

Dub Skylarkings-

 I was unfortunately sans computer when that auction for those WE 403Bs closed, and all four sold for $4.99! I had been looking for a solid month for those tubes, and thought of visiting some serious bodily harm on my aging padre for jerking the rug out from under me. I was _minutes_ away from owning those...


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

Quote:


 I was minutes away from owning those... 
 

Ah unlucky bOUddha!

 I spent about 2 minutes trying to figure out how to obtain an appropriate money order, but it was obvious it wasn't going to be worth the hassle. 

  Quote:


 all four sold for $4.99! 
 

Looks like someone got a bargain. We best keep looking


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Impressed by the all the rave reviews of this amp, I just ordered the DV 332... and... I'm now shopping for tubes.

 Does anyone have any of the tubes recommended in this thread for sale?

 If so, please PM me with the types and prices.

 Thanks,
 GF2_

 

Well... it arrived about 5 days (including the weekend) after it was shipped.

 Communications and shipment tracking were fine, package arrived unmolested, and the amp is... indeed beautiful.

 And... the price was great at $390 shipped to my door from this eBay vendor... "3c-store."

 So... "what's not to like?"

 Except for... despite the fact that I specified the 110 volt US version (and they shipped it to the US with only 110 volt service), yet they sent me the 240 volt version! What total incompetence and lack of QC over their distribution processes!

 I've notified them of their error, and requested that they air express for overnight delivery, the correct 110 volt US version I ordered (at their cost), as well as send me a prepaid shipping label to return the incorrect amp. I've also advised them that if the issue is not resolved by 8/23/07 (tomorrow), I'll file my claim with eBay / PayPal for a full refund, and will not return their amp, until they send me the prepaid shipping label.

 We'll see how they respond. 

 I'll keep you informed.

 But... until then... my suggestion to anyone thinking of "saving a few bucks" by purchasing from "3c-store" on eBay is to - just don't do it for now! Buy from Casque HiFi, or Jasmine HiFi, or some other proven vendor, who has a proven track record.

 "Caveat emptor."


----------



## Godkin

Sorry to hear about that. There is always the option of a step-down transformer, though that hardly deals with the sellers ****-up. 

 What surprises me is that there are no distributors for DARKVOICE in the US or indeed Europe. Hifi Casque are a European company, but they ship their 332s from China. Then, I suppose, we would have to pay a premium for their "services."


----------



## Gradofan2

Well, I took "Godkin's" advice and got a voltage converter to at least "give it a try," while I am waiting for a resolution of the issue by "3c-store." 

 As they say... "right out of the box" the 332 sounds pretty good... even with the stock tubes and no burn-in (only 30 minutes of warm-up) with my modified Senn HD580/600's and my MMF CD25 1+ (didn't want to risk my better DAC's and phones at this point). It does tend to "wake up" the dark, slow sounding Senns. Trying my AD2000's, which are fairly low impedence phones (about 40 hz) - it also sounds pretty good. They don't seem to suffer much distortion from insufficient current - if any, as can occur with some OTL amps (e.g. WA3). At this early stage of burn-in, the highs do seem a bit brittle / harsh, though clear, especially with the AD2000's. Bass is pretty solid and full, and the mids full and warm.

 I'm not prepared to say it sounds better than my main set-up (with my PinkFloyd XCAN v3) - but, if burn in, and better tubes makes a difference - I'd say it is possible that it will.

 It has lots of slam, and extension at both ends, as well as detail, and a pretty spacious soundstage. Right now it sounds a bit too "atmospheric," or "bloomy," or "rubbery" and may have a bit too much "reverb," which makes all frequencies sound like they may need to be "tightened down a bit." Hopefully, that will settle down quite a bit, as it burns in, and with the right tubes - and that's not the OTL qualities shining through. That's why I like the PinkFloyd XCAN v3 so much - is it's nice tight, solid, focused, yet textured tone body and warmth without excessive "bloom" and "atmosphere."

 But... we'll see.

 Right now... I'm more concerned with obtaining a resolution from "3c-store."

 Who knows... If I hear nothing back... I may just end up with a "free DV 332" - because you may be certain I will obtain my refund from either PayPal, or Mastercard. And, I will not be sending this unit back, until they send me a prepaid shipping label.


----------



## Gradofan2

They shipped my unit to a buyer in the UK, and I got his. 

 2 unhappy customers.

 They're gonna take a beating (financially) on this "screw-up." Or, their courier is.

 I'll let you know when they figure out how they're going to resolve the issue.

 I can tell you though - I'm not spending another cent on resolving the issue, and I'm not letting this unit go, until I receive mine in good form, overnight.


 They "****ed" with the wrong Marine" this time.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They shipped my unit to a buyer in the UK, and I got his. 

 2 unhappy customers.

 They're gonna take a beating (financially) on this "screw-up." Or, their courier is.

 I'll let you know when they figure out how they're going to resolve the issue.

 I can tell you though - I'm not spending another cent on resolving the issue, and I'm not letting this unit go, until I receive mine in good form, overnight.


 They "****ed" with the wrong Marine" this time._

 

sorry to inform you but you are not allowed to keep products that's not yours. ie if you are seeking a refund. The store has the right to demand their goods back before/after refunding you the money. You are really not allowed to have something for nothing unless it's a gift, and I doubt MC would indulge your arguments either.

 Someone correct me if I am wrong:
 1. I don't think stores have an obligation to pay for product return shipping, albeit some do it because they have excellent customer service. 

 2. I don't think stores would send out another product of the same kind (advanced replacement) without first charge your credit card for the amount and later deduct that same amount after receipt of the returned product. 

 3. I believe it is up to the individual store to determine as to how much they charge for restocking the product (within reason or commercially acceptable standard). 

 But I do feel bad about your situation, and I hope you get it resolved.

 My advise to you is see if they are willing to pay for the transformer you bought to operate the 240V machine (I am guessing its around $20 if you buy it off ebay)


----------



## Gradofan2

Actually... that is not the case at all.

 The seller has errored in their shipment of the wrong amp to me. They have not delivered the amp I purchased, and they confirmed would be sent prior to my purchase / payment. 

 They are responsible to bear the cost of the return. 

 They are equally responsible to deliver the amp, I purchased, or refund the purchase price + shipping.

 That's as simple as I can make it for you.

 And that's the law (Uniform Commercial Code / Contract Law)!

 Both PayPal and Mastercard will honor it.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually... that is not the case at all.

 The seller has errored in their shipment of the wrong amp to me. They have not delivered the amp I purchased, and they confirmed would be sent prior to my purchase / payment. 

 They are responsible to bear the cost of the return. 

 They are equally responsible to deliver the amp, I purchased, or refund the purchase price + shipping.

 That's as simple as I can make it for you.

 And that's the law (Uniform Commercial Code / Contract Law)!

 Both PayPal and Mastercard will honor it._

 

OK. if you say so, but that's not what the UCC says 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (UCC is actually quite a bit nicer to the seller than K law 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 GL


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They shipped my unit to a buyer in the UK, and I got his. 

 2 unhappy customers._

 

That would be me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mine...... well your amp hasn't arrived yet, and so i can refuse to accept it and have it sent straight back. 

 The seller says it was the shipping companies fault, i find that hard to believe, i would imagine he's just been a idiot and labelled them incorrectly. 

 I'll not be annoyed unless this isn't quickly resolved at no cost to me. Also i don't expect an amp thats been round the world more times than me. I've made this opinion clear to the seller.

 Let's hope he has the sense to sort this out promptly Grado


----------



## fkclo

This is really unfortunate. On the other hand, this proves that we are living in a real world.

 I am a bit concerned that you did try the 240V amp. Because if you return the amp later you are returning a used amp, contrary to the expectation that the amp was just delivered to the wrong address, and should remain new and untouched for return / collection. More, the fact that you have used the amp may implied you have taken ownership - albeit a temporary one. This may complicate the process. I do not know the consumer protection laws in USA but if I were in the position, I will not touch the amp, so that the amp remained a wrongly delivered new item. This may help strengthen your case.

 Just my 2 cents.

 F. Lo


----------



## Fred333

I have always found it a little sketchy buying electronics online. There are very shady people out there looking for that quick buck.


----------



## fkclo

That's why word of mouth in a trust worthy community is important in this type of products. I bought 95% of my amps and half of my headphone inventry online, and touch wood, all are delivered as described, and I met some good friends in the process. 

 YMMV.
 F. Lo


----------



## Gradofan2

It may be a bit premature to "label" the seller as untrustworthy... although... I think "inept" may be in order.

 Whatever... he's definitely having "a bad hair day."

 If he get's this issue properly resolved in record time... then... "no harm, no foul." And... I'll bet he's a bit less hasty and more careful in the future - for those who may follow me.

 However, it is a good lesson... for all of us... to "take care" in international transactions... and, to approach them with a full understanding of the risks - they are real. And... unfortunately... a seller's ratings... may not provide adequate assurance that "all will be fine."

 I've certainly decided this will be my last international transaction of this magnitude - from now on, I will buy only from domestic dealers with domestic support, unless it's a major, long established, proven reliable vendor. 

 If you do otherwise - you must be willing to accept the "risk" that you may eventually experience a similar issue, that may not be resolved satisfactorily - not to mention, the likely difficulty and cost of obtaining warranty service.

 For some... they may be willing to "just write it off" to the "cost of doing international business with small, unknown vendors." For others... such a cost may be unacceptable.

 For this reason... we all should quickly publicsize any such similar experiences to help others avoid such risks, if they choose to do so.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fkclo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is really unfortunate. On the other hand, this proves that we are living in a real world.

 I am a bit concerned that you did try the 240V amp. Because if you return the amp later you are returning a used amp, contrary to the expectation that the amp was just delivered to the wrong address, and should remain new and untouched for return / collection. More, the fact that you have used the amp may implied you have taken ownership - albeit a temporary one. This may complicate the process. I do not know the consumer protection laws in USA but if I were in the position, I will not touch the amp, so that the amp remained a wrongly delivered new item. This may help strengthen your case.

 Just my 2 cents.

 F. Lo_

 

I agree. using the product is a big no no when you want to return for a full refund. 

 Here is another solution for the aggrieved buyers: What about 2 of you cross ship the product using reasonable shipping method (not overnight int' priority 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with insurance and have the store just reimburse you for that? The cost of shipping between the pound is relative reasonable and would be a whole lota cheaper and quicker for everyone. 

 Just because the aggrieved party got shipped the wrong sku, albeit still a working amp, doesn't mean as a consumer, you can be nasty about it and demand the world. Just think about all those ppl who got their DV with broken tubes (DOA amp) yet no one is being nasty about it; It is part of doing international business, and if the aggrieved party would rather pay 2X the price from an importer/dealer, then be my guest (you will just puke if found out how much the US dealers are making on Chinese imports


----------



## Gradofan2

Already considered that option...

 However, the cost to ship between the US and UK and US and China is the same via Express Mail Service, or Priority Mail Service - already got the prices.

 And... the unit ordered by the person in the UK is white, while the one that I ordered is black. The white one is 110 volt, the black one is 240 volt. 

 That should make it as clear as "black and white."

 And... you're right... purchasing amps / electronics from international sellers - has risk / cost implications that far exceed the base cost of the products - those risks / costs must be factored in, considered and accepted by the buyers, as the "hidden / additional cost" of buying international products from small vendors, at the time of purchase. If not... they're going to be very disappointed. 

 I'd rather - buy from domestic, or large, or established, reliable vendors, and know the full cost of the purchase "up front," rather than discover all the "full cost" later when issues arrise. It very likely makes more sense for most buyers to buy a product from a Woo Audio, or Mapletree, or Singlepower, or even Pacific Valve - despite the price premiums, because you know the full cost "up front" and you know you have a reliable vendor you can count on, if issues do arise. Or, buy something like the XCAN v3, which even an MBA/CPA can maintain - you don't have to be an EE.

 I might feel differently, if I were an EE and could maintain the products myself - but, if you can't... you need to be psychologically prepared to accept the "full cost" of such purchases, as those issues arrise - which will include the significant cost of warranty service in another country. Those hidden / additional costs" ($ and time) can easily double+ the cost of the product. So... why not just start with the known cost, without the hassles of international transactions and costs.


----------



## bOUddha

Just had my 332 delivered from the 3c-store this afternoon. E-mail said 5-8 weeks delivery, took 6 days!

 Even with the OEM tubes and raw amp, listening _thru_ the tubes I can already hear what's going to prove to be a considerable improvement in staging and _bass slam_ over my 336i. This is getting to be much more fun than the full size systems I have working...


----------



## Gradofan2

Yeah... a very weighty, powerful sound - which if it improves as others say it will with burn-in and rolled tubes - will likely be pretty impressive.

 I just hope - it tightens up a lot and becomes a lot more solid and clear and less "rubbery." 

 They are beautiful amps.


----------



## bOUddha

Quote:


 I just hope - it tightens up a lot and becomes a lot more solid and clear and less "rubbery." 

 

First session=2 hours; noticeable improvement in sound quality.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Second session=4 hours; went to sleep after 45 minutes, woke up two hours later to a remarkable improvement!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This was with just an FM tuner as a source.

 Gonna roll in some Hytron 6AK5s today and feed my head some more DV...


----------



## masonn1

Can someone explain some terms for me? :

 Tubes? - what are they; how many do I need to buy; how do I install them; which tubes should I buy?

 Tube rolling? - what is it, what is it for, and how do you do it?

 Valve? - what is and which should I buy?


 I'm also wondering about cables for the amp. I wanna connect it with my TrekStor Vibez mp3-player,but I don't know what cables to buy?


----------



## bOUddha

See the two glass containers with metal structures inside? Those are tubes, and they perform similar functions as transistors in the electrical signal path of the amplifier.

 Initially you won't _have_ to buy any; the amp comes with a full complement of tubes, however they are not really comparable in quality to the amp itself or to other tubes. There are four tubes in the 332 (the 336i pictured has just two) and they are removed by pulling straight up while rocking GENTLY from side-to-side. To install, just line up the pins on the bottom with the holes in the sockets and gently push down (avoiding fingerprints or wiping off same after touching). There is usually only one way to line up the tubes for insertion, as a space will be left on the socket corresponding to the pin not present on the tube.

 Tube rolling is simply substituting one tube for another in order to affect the sound reproduction according to one's ears. Thus, highly subjective (but enormously entertaining, if you get positive results which is almost a given with these amps!).

 "Valves" are what _tubes_ are called on the Eastern Side of the great pond.

 Hope this helps...


----------



## Skylab

Also, "Valve" (thermionic valve) is just another term for "Tube" (electron vacuum tube).


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just had my 332 delivered from the 3c-store this afternoon. E-mail said 5-8 weeks delivery, took 6 days!

 Even with the OEM tubes and raw amp, listening thru the tubes I can already hear what's going to prove to be a considerable improvement in staging and bass slam over my 336i. This is getting to be much more fun than the full size systems I have working..._

 

I don't think many believed me when I said 332 is on a different level than 336i. I mean think about it, one is a dual mono design the other isn't! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The price difference between the 2 more than justifies the performance difference. IMO it's crazy not to upgrade, unless you are extremely $$-prohibited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One other thing, people shouldn't be shy using their 332 with cans from AKG or Grado. I had great result with my K701 and HF-1, ie the bass is full, deep, articulate, and satisfying.


----------



## bOUddha

What's amazing to me is, I didn't buy the 332 because I was disappointed in the 336i or felt the need to upgrade. Curiosity and a delusional sense of need
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 drove me to it!

 I'm still awaiting my WE 403Bs and the Svetlanas everybody raves about, but the Russian 6S19P-Vs and the Hytron 6AK5s are percolatin' nicely!

 I fed this rig some live Bill Evans (Waltz for Debbie)last night, and the effect was eerie...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't wait to see what it's like with a full burn-in.


----------



## AS1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't think many believed me when I said 332 is on a different level than 336i. I mean think about it, one is a dual mono design the other isn't! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

did you actually directly compare these at all?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO it's crazy not to upgrade, unless you are extremely $$-prohibited. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

you should put this in your signature: you're insane not to upgrade!


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did you actually directly compare these at all?_

 

yes @ stock setting w/K701 using Arcam CD33, IIRC, as source. You can find my comparative super-mini-review somewhere in this thread. 

 Uh..if you already like 336i, its not a leap of faith to move to their higher up lines. e.g. If you like Glite, you will also like GSX; if you like PPX Slam, you will also like Supra; If you like Raptor, you will also like B52....I can go on with examples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AS1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you should put this in your signature: you're insane not to upgrade!



_

 

I like my sig the way it is now


----------



## masonn1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_See the two glass containers with metal structures inside? Those are tubes, and they perform similar functions as transistors in the electrical signal path of the amplifier.

 Initially you won't have to buy any; the amp comes with a full complement of tubes, however they are not really comparable in quality to the amp itself or to other tubes. There are four tubes in the 332 (the 336i pictured has just two) and they are removed by pulling straight up while rocking GENTLY from side-to-side. To install, just line up the pins on the bottom with the holes in the sockets and gently push down (avoiding fingerprints or wiping off same after touching). There is usually only one way to line up the tubes for insertion, as a space will be left on the socket corresponding to the pin not present on the tube.

 Tube rolling is simply substituting one tube for another in order to affect the sound reproduction according to one's ears. Thus, highly subjective (but enormously entertaining, if you get positive results which is almost a given with these amps!).

 "Valves" are what tubes are called on the Eastern Side of the great pond.

 Hope this helps...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks very much. So where can I buy these tubes and which should I buy?

 What about the cable for mp3 -> amp ?


----------



## Godkin

Try E-Bay, Masonn1. Always a good source for valves/tubes. Alternatively, they're plenty of shops on the net. Tubes to look for: the signal tubes are two Chinese 6J1s - try western equivalents: the 6AK5 or the premium versions the 6AK5W and 5654; the EF95 or the superior M8100 and CV4010; the Western Electric 403A or 403B; the Soviets also made a version of the 6J1, the higher quality 6J1P-EV. With the larger voltage regulating tubes they really is only two choices: the 6S19P-EBs from SVETLANA and ULYANOVSK.

 There must be some kind of adapter lead. Years ago, I had a small portable CD player. I had a REGA EAR headphone amp at the time and had a lead that plugged into the headphone socket of the CD player and then split into two RCAs to plug into the back of the amp. A jack to RCA lead would be what you're after.


----------



## Kataklystik

Today I ordered my DV 332 from Jasmine. Is 400USD incl shipping to europe a good price?
 I'm going to use it with AKG K701's which I'm going to get soon. This is my first setup and as I'm a student I had to work a month to get the money for it. I really hope it's worth it.


----------



## bOUddha

That's almost exactly what I paid for to be shipped to the US. Keep us posted on your reactions!


----------



## Godkin

Good buy as far as I'm concerned. And, no, you won't regret it. Your $400 has been well spent.


----------



## Skylab

And Jasmine is VERY reliable and gives excellent service, in my experience.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I ordered my DV 332 from Jasmine. Is 400USD incl shipping to europe a good price?
 I'm going to use it with AKG K701's which I'm going to get soon. This is my first setup and as I'm a student I had to work a month to get the money for it. I really hope it's worth it._

 

Yes... that is a good price shipped to the EU, or the US. 

 I've seen no complaints about Jasmine, or Casque - they seem to be reliable. And that price is certainly competitive.

 Just a few complaints about 3c-Store, which failed to deliver the correct amps initially ordered by at least two Headfiers (wrong colors / wrong voltages).


----------



## Godkin

Don't know if anyone has heard about this yet, but DARKVOICE has launched a new headphone amp - the FIGARO. Again, it's a tube design, with a compliment of two 6F3s. It retails around $190. Here's some pics.













 Personally, I think it's a pretty little thing, and considering DV's pedigree it should sound good too.


----------



## ghiberti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know if anyone has heard about this yet, but DARKVOICE has launched a new headphone amp - the FIGARO. Again, it's a tube design, with a compliment of two 6F3s. It retails around $190. Here's some pics._

 

There's a related thread made long long time ago
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:


----------



## Godkin

Thanks. I've never heard about it before. But there you go, behind the times as usual.


----------



## Godkin

Ghilberti, just been reading your thread on the Figaro. Please tell me I didn't read that DV are releasing a new 332. It was an hallucination, wasn't it.


----------



## meloman

Kataklystik, I had mine for about two weeks now and even though I bought it from another source (which I can recommend : 3c-store / ebay) I paid exactly the same amount of money incl shipping to Belgium. Still running it on stock Chinese tubes, very happy with it but as to most of us here too the inevitable has happened... 
 Ordered Ulyanovsks 6S19P-V and Hytron 6AK5's and a matched pair of EF95's from General Electric. Can't wait to hear the difference.
 You def. won't regret that month's work! Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.


----------



## bOUddha

meloman-

 Don't be surprised if those Hytron 6AK5s hum a bit when you first light'em up. It goes away completely in about twenty minutes though.

 I'm curious as to your success with the ef95s...while my generic Russian 6S19P-Vs are a step up from the OEMs, they initially provided noticeably less bass ooomph. Now they seem fine, but I wonder about the comparison to the Svetlanas and Ulyanovsks...I seem to have _plenty spares_ of the inexpensive variety! (wink-wink nudge-nudge)


----------



## Kataklystik

I'm glad to hear the positive opinions on the amp. 
 Jasmine has top service. As I contacted him over MSN I talked to him a little bit and he really is very friendly and tries to satisfy his customers.

 By the way, my AKG K701's arrive tomorrow or Thursday but I will have to wait at least a week from now until the amp gets here.
 Will my Zen Vision M or my sound card headphone out be powerful enough to drive them to burn them in at least? 
 I'm planning to burn them in with pink noise as I read that it is fast and works fine.


----------



## Gradofan2

I'm pretty impressed with how the DV 332 complements the HD650's in my set-up. 

 The stock tubes seem to brighten / clear these phones up quite a bit. I suppose with other phones the stock tubes might be a bit bright, or almost harsh - but, with the HD650's they're really pretty spectacular. I get a similar sound from the Russian (Voskhod) 6AK5 equivalents, or the M8100's, with the stock power tubes (I assume that's what the 6C19's are).

 Again... very much like the XCAN v3 with the Senns, in that respect.


----------



## Kataklystik

I looked around a bit on ebay for tubes and I found these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=009

 Edit: Also found these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Tung-Sol...QQcmdZViewItem

 Can they be used with the Darkvoice 332?


----------



## Godkin

Yes, these tubes are perfect for the 332. The TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws are excellent in the 332 - I have a pair myself. One of the best in my opinion. Likewise, the SVETLANA 6S19Ps are great in the 332.


----------



## ghiberti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ghilberti, just been reading your thread on the Figaro. Please tell me I didn't read that DV are releasing a new 332. It was an hallucination, wasn't it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

it's real, man.

 I have a pic of new 332 but I can't post it here now


----------



## pkjames

just acquired a 332 pcb, will try to build a DIY version.


----------



## Godkin

Wet my appetite, Ghiberti. Has the design changed much? Does it use the same compliment of tubes? When will it be released?

 Good luck with the DIY 332. Pkjames


----------



## Gradofan2

Wow... just finding it hard to believe this amp can sound this good with the HD650's, or HD600's - they're whole different phones with the DV 332!

 Of course my sources, may have something to do with their sound... but... the combination is simply incredible. 

 I find it hard to believe there could be much better, no matter the cost.


----------



## Godkin

They are a perfect match. As far as I know, when DV designed the 332 they used the HD650s as reference cans. They have done a great job. Many people who have heard the 332 compare it with amps at three times the price. Personally, I do not think it gets much better than the 332 - HD650 combo.


----------



## ghiberti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wet my appetite, Ghiberti. Has the design changed much? Does it use the same compliment of tubes? When will it be released?_

 

new 332 is very different with old one in appearance-it has two volume pots
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




-.

 as for tubes, I heard they're the same but not 100% sure.

 I hope we can get it this month


----------



## Kataklystik

A new 332? Mine will arrive in a few days and when I think that the new one could be better this just makes me feel like...don't like that idea at all.

 ghiberti where did you get this info from? Jasmine himself told me "I have ask the factory,they told me there is no new version 332 amp."


----------



## ghiberti

a little singing bird passing by told me that
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




::


----------



## Godkin

I e-mailed Jasmine and he/she told me that: "the darkvoice not release new version 332, just change the more good capacity to improve the sound." This suggests some kind of component upgrade, but not a fundamental change - like a 332i. However, Ghilberti has intelligence that it may well be a fumdamental change. Do not know what to think. Perhaps Jasmine is saying this because he/she wishes to off-load the older 332s.


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know if anyone has heard about this yet, but DARKVOICE has launched a new headphone amp - the FIGARO. Again, it's a tube design, with a compliment of two 6F3s. It retails around $190. Here's some pics.













 Personally, I think it's a pretty little thing, and considering DV's pedigree it should sound good too._

 

FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION

 I CLICKED ON THE BLACK FIGARO AND GOT A NORTON VIRUS ALERT. BLOODHOUND.EXPLOIT.109, WHICH WOULDN'T ALLOW NORTON TO ACCESS OR FIX .....

 THE LOG LISTED IT THIS WAY: *Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\BKYDDVIB\movie[1].qtl AND MVKE59MI\movie[1].qtl 
*

 I WAS NOT ABLE TO CLOSE THE WINDOW AND HAD TO SHUT DOWN IE BECAUSE FIGARO.EXE WOULDN'T CLOSE.

 I'M SCANNING WITH NORTON AND AVG AND WILL MANUALLY REMOVE IT FROM THE TEMP FILES IF ACCESS IS STILL DENIED....


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A new 332? Mine will arrive in a few days and when I think that the new one could be better this just makes me feel like...don't like that idea at all.

 ghiberti where did you get this info from? Jasmine himself told me "I have ask the factory,they told me there is no new version 332 amp."_

 

I got the same response back from an AD in China; I even call the factory and asked 'the man' and got the same response too - no new 332. 

 not ruling out the possibility that they have all conspired to pull my leg


----------



## Skylab

The two-volume control model is the 337, isn't it?


----------



## Kataklystik

Today I got a call, there was someone telling me that I have to pay custom duties to get the amp..this would be around 60€(something like 20% of the price). I think this is really sucks. Did you all have to pay custom duty too?


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two-volume control model is the 337, isn't it?_

 

that would bother the hell out of me, because where 337 fails is not in sound but in level matching! Maybe if you put 2 DACT there, but it would be a $300 upgrade just for the parts.


----------



## Godkin

I didn't have to pay customs charges - but I live in the UK.


----------



## meloman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_meloman-

 Don't be surprised if those Hytron 6AK5s hum a bit when you first light'em up. It goes away completely in about twenty minutes though.

 I'm curious as to your success with the ef95s...while my generic Russian 6S19P-Vs are a step up from the OEMs, they initially provided noticeably less bass ooomph. Now they seem fine, but I wonder about the comparison to the Svetlanas and Ulyanovsks...I seem to have plenty spares of the inexpensive variety! (wink-wink nudge-nudge)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

bOUddha, Thanks a lot for your response! Apologies for not getting back to you earlier but I have been abroad for almost 2 weeks. In the mean time, the Hytrons have arrived and they do hum indeed. Very glad to hear that this does disappear within some time. The Ylyanovsks haven't found their way to my amp yet BUT I found a small paper in the mail saying that 'some package' has arrived. I'll be back with more impressions when I get the tubes. Thanks for your comments on the Hytrons.


----------



## meloman

Kataklystik, I paid 25 € custom duties here (Belgium). Even at this higher cost I am very happy with the kit!!!


----------



## Kataklystik

Yeah I'm very satisfied too, btw Jasmine refunded me 30€ so total price incl customs duties was 350€. I think thats OK considering that this amp still has a good value compared to other amps because it is made in china.
 Edit: I took a pic of my Darkvoice 332+K701 combo. I really love it!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... it arrived about 5 days (including the weekend) after it was shipped.

 Communications and shipment tracking were fine, package arrived unmolested, and the amp is... indeed beautiful.

 And... the price was great at $390 shipped to my door from this eBay vendor... "3c-store."

 So... "what's not to like?"

 Except for... despite the fact that I specified the 110 volt US version (and they shipped it to the US with only 110 volt service), yet they sent me the 240 volt version! What total incompetence and lack of QC over their distribution processes!

 I've notified them of their error, and requested that they air express for overnight delivery, the correct 110 volt US version I ordered (at their cost), as well as send me a prepaid shipping label to return the incorrect amp. I've also advised them that if the issue is not resolved by 8/23/07 (tomorrow), I'll file my claim with eBay / PayPal for a full refund, and will not return their amp, until they send me the prepaid shipping label.

 We'll see how they respond. 

 I'll keep you informed.

 But... until then... my suggestion to anyone thinking of "saving a few bucks" by purchasing from "3c-store" on eBay is to - just don't do it for now! Buy from Casque HiFi, or Jasmine HiFi, or some other proven vendor, who has a proven track record.

 "Caveat emptor."_

 

Some lessons learned from my experience noted above...

 1. Do Not Buy from "3c-store" on eBay - no matter what a few others have experienced - they do not honor their warranty / guarantee!

 2. Do Not Rely on PayPal to honor their "Buyer Protection Plan," or to assist in resolving such matters - they won't!

 3. Do Not Rely on eBay to honor their "Buyer Protection Plan," or to assist in resolving such matters - they won't!

 4. DO NOT PAY THE VENDOR VIA SEPARATE PAYPAL INVOICE HE MAY SEND YOU - DO MAKE ALL SUCH PAYMENTS VIA THE PAYPAL LINK PROVIDED ON THE EBAY PAGE CONFIRMING YOUR PURCHASE - TO OBTAIN PAYPAL'S "BUYER PROTECTION PLAN" COVERAGE (although I'm sure they've got "a number of other clauses" in their agreement that will preclude coverage).

 5. DO MAKE ALL SUCH PURCHASES WITH A MASTERCARD OR VISA ACCOUNT WHICH GUARANTEES BUYER SATISFACTION, AND PROTECTS AGAINST FRAUD, AND WILL REFUND YOUR MONEY - THEY WILL!!!

 6. DO NOT TAKE COMFORT IN GOOD FEEDBACK FOR 3C-STORE EITHER ON EBAY, OR HEADFI - YOU ARE STILL VULNERABLE!

 In fact... it's probably better to just avoid international purchases from small, unknown vendors altogether... if you wan't to avoid the difficulties of resolving such issues.

 3c-Store sent me the 240 volt version of the amp, despite confirming it was the 110 volt version - and then would not pay the $80 shipping cost for me to return the amp for replacement with a 110 volt version. 

 They did the same thing to a member in the UK, but that member saw my post before he received his amp, and refused to accept his shipment from 3c-Store - thereby avoiding these issues with this vendor. I assume he will eventually receive the correct amp, or a refund... but, you can't be sure with this vendor.

 I asked PayPal to resolve the matter, or refund my money, via their so-called "Buyer Protection Plan." They promptly informed me that I "had no protection" from their so-called "Buyer Protection Plan." They made clear... that "small print on page 27 of their agreement" explains that the buyer is only protected... IF... they click on the link on the eBay site to PayPal and pay via that link. 

 3c-Store, very cleverly directs its buyers to pay only via a separate invoice they will send to the buyer - which excludes the buyer from receiving PayPal's "Buyer Protection Plan." 

 I asked eBay to resolve the matter, or refund my money - and they informed me they provide no protection to buyers... that is provided only by PayPal. The most they would do is provide me links to various consumer fraud sites to report the vendor.

 On the other hand... Mastercard... does have an effective process for resolving such matters... and will refund the buyer's money... if the buyer provides the documentation supporting their claim - in this case a fraudulent merchant. Fortunately, I had "reems" of supporting emails - and they have refunded my money, and presumably have charged back 3c-Store.

 The only issue remaining is... I still have an amp, which is really 3c-Store's amp... but, for which they refuse to send me the money to pay for the return shipment. No problem... I'm enjoying it... until they do!

 "Caveat Emptor!"


----------



## bOUddha

meloman-

 Bad news. I acquired some of the Western Electric 403-Bs a couple of weeks ago...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THAT's what I was looking for! I now have five more coming.


----------



## meloman

Yes, that _is_ bad news indeed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Hytrons have been in use for just a day and humming has gone away entirely. Shall to the same with a second pair I ordered. 

 I picked up the Ulyanovsks from the post office today, plugged them in and there's no hum at all. Here too, I ordered 4 so there's 2 more to be tested. 

 I finally also received a matched pair of Tektonix Inc(that's what it says on the box) GE EF95's.

 When all these have reached break-in time, comparisons can start. Shall post my findings here later.


----------



## Bozz_Keren

can 332i drive 16ohm earphone like PK2? the spec said 
 output impedance : 32-600 ohm


----------



## Godkin

Yes, the 332 could drive the 16ohm ear-phones, but, to be honest, the 332 works best with higher impedance cans, like Sennheisers and Beyers.


----------



## mrwinick

any more info about the next version of the 332?


----------



## Dutchess of York

Im very interested in the 332 for my senns and grados, but at ~450, its alittle out of my range. Anybody know if they can be bought new/used for under 375?


----------



## Gradofan2

I think Jasmine's eBay store permits you to "make an offer." Just make them an offer of $390, or so... I think they've sold them anywhere from $390+ to $410+, which includes shipping via EMS. You might explain that 3c-Store (their competitor) has priced it to you for that price, but you'd rather buy it from them.


----------



## Bozz_Keren

try this dealer, i've been reaching him, nice person, quick reply
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=342802
 i got $410 for 332i including shipping cost


----------



## Bozz_Keren

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the 332 could drive the 16ohm ear-phones, but, to be honest, the 332 works best with higher impedance cans, like Sennheisers and Beyers._

 

how about grados/alessandro, or beyer manufaktur 32ohm?
 is there any significant sound difference 332i made when driving low impd and high impd cans?


----------



## Gradofan2

I found my RS-1's (32 ohms) sounded a bit rough, compared to my Senns (300 ohms) and AD2000's (40 ohms), which sounded much smoother with the DV 332.


----------



## Bozz_Keren

did tube rolling had effect to grados roughness?
 maybe changing another tube to smooth things up


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did tube rolling had effect to grados roughness?
 maybe changing another tube to smooth things up_

 

Tube rolling hasn't seemed to help much, if any, to smooth up the RS-1's with the DV 332 - certainly not as smooth as the Senns, or AD2000's.

 To be honest... I haven't been able to tell a huge difference in most of the tubes I've tried - perhaps subtle changes in the airyness or soundstage, or detail, and maybe just a bit more solid bass.

 I think it's just the challenge that some tube amps seem to have in driving low impedence phones - my WA 3 had a similar sound with the RS-1's, but had a bit rougher sound.

 But... as I continue to roll tubes... I'll let you know, if any help.

 By the way... if you ever wanted to try the Senns, or AD2000's... this would be an amp to try them with. Seems to brighten the Senns up a lot... but so does the XCAN v3 - the DV 332 just has a bit more weighty, liquid sound than the XCAN v3.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tube rolling hasn't seemed to help much, if any, to smooth up the RS-1's with the DV 332 - certainly not as smooth as the Senns, or AD2000's.

 To be honest... I haven't been able to tell a huge difference in most of the tubes I've tried - perhaps subtle changes in the airyness or soundstage, or detail, and maybe just a bit more solid bass.

 I think it's just the challenge that some tube amps seem to have in driving low impedence phones - my WA 3 had a similar sound with the RS-1's, but had a bit rougher sound.

 But... as I continue to roll tubes... I'll let you know, if any help.

 By the way... if you ever wanted to try the Senns, or AD2000's... this would be an amp to try them with. Seems to brighten the Senns up a lot... but so does the XCAN v3 - the DV 332 just has a bit more weighty, liquid sound than the XCAN v3._

 

RS1 is bright if you wear it 'normally'. (I think that's a fact 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 If you are using bowl, try switch to flat
 Your source is too bright (I mean the recording not your gear)
 If you can't tell when you roll the tubes that means wither your cans are not able to resolve details (not likely) or your source is lacking (probably). 

 GL


----------



## Bozz_Keren

looks like i'm not a senn fanboy, tried HD650 once, paired with X-can V3, they match well, but i'm not into that kind of buttery smooth, but when V3 paired with RS2, they become somewhat warm, exactly what i'm looking for
 i want to try DT880 with this amp though..

 ever since i listened to LD2+ with SR60, i've been looking for tube amps, and i done some reading, DV332i might be what i'm searching all this time


----------



## Godkin

Just spent a long (and rainy) afternoon doing a straight shoot-off between the DV 332 and the X-CAN V3, modded heavily by me over the years. I dug out a old, and brilliantly recorded, CD of mine - the jazz influenced "Eden" by Everything but the Girl.

 I have to say that, in my opinion, the 332 came off better in every respect. The first noticeable thing was the power: I was amazed, not to say a little shocked, by how much I had to crank up the volume control on the X-CAN to get a listenable sound. I know some of this can be explained by the differing design of pot used - the linear in the 332 and the ALPS in the X-CAN - but the DV had just so much more power. (The X-CAN has also a heavily modded output stage which is more geared towards lower impedance cans.)

 Secondly, clarity. Compared to the 332, the X-CAN sounded warm and, dare I say it, veiled. It has a lovely and beguiling sound, with an attractive lushness and liquidity, and an ambience the 332 cannot match. But switching directly to the 332 demonstrated just how coloured it was. The 332, in comparison, is crystal clear, and goes to prove what I have always said about the DV, that it is a very revealing amp, especially with poor sources.

 The same can be said about, for want of a better word, openess. The warm and veiled character of the X-CAN meant that it was a slightly deceptive amp to listen to, but it had a detailed midrange, with plenty of detail. Again, however, the 332 was, subjectively speaking, the better amp. The soundstage is simply bigger, with each thread of the music portrayed and separated in a superior way.

 Finally, bass. Both amps equiped themselves well, with no shortage of bass power. But the 332 simply goes lower and is more articulate.


----------



## Gradofan2

Gary... which tubes were you using, and what source? 

 I assume the Svets and Mullards, or maybe the Tung Sols?

 I also think the DV 332 seems to present a more powerful sound, and perhaps a bit more "tube" euphonics. 

 But, sometimes I think the XCAN v3 presents a bit more clarity and detail - it's close. 

 Although... I much prefer the XCAN v3 with my RS-1's - they're much smoother with it.

 My observations are primarily with the Svets and Mullards, and the sources in my signature (which are exceptional). With the stock Chinese tubes - they seem to sound a bit more similar... I think.


----------



## Godkin

At the moment, I am using the SVETs and the RCA JRC 6AK5Ws. I am also running a YAQIN tube buffer, with a pair of WE 403Bs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My main source is a MUSICAL FIDELITY A3.5, running as a transport, and an X-DAC V3, which has been heavily modded.

 I would say that the X-CAN is superior with the GRADOs. Its output stage, especially with the Pinky mods, is geared for lower impedance cans. The output stage has a massive 2000uF of capitance, bypassed with Russian PIO caps, while the 332 has a diminutive 60uF. With the HD650s, or other higher impedance cans, the 332 wins hands-down.

 I love the sound of the X-CAN, but for my ears the 332 is a winner.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_At the moment, I am using the SVETs and the RCA JRC 6AK5Ws. I am also running a YAQIN tube buffer, with a pair of WE 403Bs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My main source is a MUSICAL FIDELITY A3.5, running as a transport, and an X-DAC V3, which has been heavily modded.

 I would say that the X-CAN is superior with the GRADOs. Its output stage, especially with the Pinky mods, is geared for lower impedance cans. The output stage has a massive 2000uF of capitance, bypassed with Russian PIO caps, while the 332 has a diminutive 60uF. With the HD650s, or other higher impedance cans, the 332 wins hands-down.

 I love the sound of the X-CAN, but for my ears the 332 is a winner._

 

I agree with high impedence phones - my Senns never sounded better! Although... I sometimes think the HD650's may sound a bit more clear with my XCAN v3 with PF mods. 

 A lot of questions...

 How is the Yaqin Tube Buffer? It seems like a bargain... if it makes an improvement. Where did you buy yours?

 Does the DV 332 really need it? 

 How well does it mate with the XCAN v3... and how does it compare to the X10 v3 Tube Buffer?

 I'm sure the XDAC v3 adds detail and clarity to the DV 332 - I sold mine before I got the DV 332. The sources I have are really great (both tube DACs)... but, they both seem to provide a bit more clarity / detail with a brighter amp - like the XDAC v3, or the GL / GS-1.

 Does you XCAN v3 have the PinkFloyd mods, or others? 

 Do you find the by-pass caps make much of a difference? Pinkfloyd suggested, earlier, that he didn't think by-pass caps really make much difference.

 Oh yes... do the mods to the XDAC v3 make a significant improvement? Are these the mods Pinkfloyd has published on his site - really those of an "Aussie?"


----------



## masonn1

Is it normal to hear slight buzzing in the phones, after about 50 hours of listening? The buzzing is very apperant at higher volumes, in quiet part of songs.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *masonn1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it normal to hear slight buzzing in the phones, after about 50 hours of listening? The buzzing is very apperant at higher volumes, in quiet part of songs._

 

I don't really notice any significant buzzing in any of my phones at any reasonable volume, much less at normal listening volumes. 

 Someone with a technical background will be better able to help you here... but... I'd try swapping tubes around, and with other tubes to see if that helps (if you haven't already done so). I'd also try cleaning the tube pins with and all cable contacts with Pro Gold products. You may also find an improved power cable might be helpful (e.g. Signal Cable Black Magic, etc.). Finally, I'd try using another outlet, or a power center, and cleaning and checking cable connections throughout your setup.

 Oh yes... you may want to try swapping sources, if you have any others, to see if the noise is in your source.


----------



## Godkin

The YAQIN is a great little device - a definate bargain (I bought mine for £12 ($24), plus £20 delivery). I bought it from a E-Bay seller called Apple.

 Does the DV need it? Probably not - it sounds great without it. But the X-DAC did need it, I thought it sounded a bit "thin" at times. The YAQIN adds a touch of warmth to it, as well as a wider soundstage. On theoretical grounds, the YAQIN - or indeed any tube buffer - is a big "no-no" because it adds distortion to the sound. But to my ears it sounds very good - very pure. 

 How it compares to the X-10 V3 is, again, a matter of choice. I have an X-10 V3 and a YAQIN - and I am selling the X-10 V3. Both are very good. When comparing them, it is good to remember the old adage about GRADO and SENNHEISER headphones: the GRADOs put you on the stage, the SENNHEISERs in the audience. The same can be said of the tube buffers: the X-10 V3 places you on the stage, the YAQIN in the audience. The X-10 V3 is more in you face and impactful; the YAQIN has a huge soundstage, but some of the detail that was in you face with the X-10 V3 is in the background with the YAQIN.

 I had the X-CAN running all day on the YAQIN - sounded great, but a few hours of listening is hardly definitive.

 The mods to my X-CAN are along the lines of those recommended by Pinky. I actually started modding mine - replacing the horrible, nasty sounding JAMICON caps - based on Mike's mods to the V2. However, Mike took them to a whole new level - new Soviet tubes, ultrafast diodes, plus attempting to remedy the X-CAN's inherent design flaw: the mis-matching of transistors which caused voltages to well on one side of the amp. The reason for me buying the 332 in the first place was to have another amp because my X-CAN had developed horrible scorch marks of the left hand side of the PCB.

 Mods to the X-DAC V3 do make an improvement. At the minute, I am experimenting with op-amps, so nothing definitive so far. I am currently burning in a pair of AD826s, replacing a pair of OPA2604s. Both are better than the stock NE5536s. The mods are not those recommended by SandyK. All caps replaced by PANASONIC FCs and ELNA SILMICs, ultrafast diodes fitted, op-amps upgraded, output caps replaced by Russian mil-spec PIOs and the case lined with bitumen sheets.

 All and all, a very good improvement. Sound much more full-bodied, better detail and resolution, and much deeper bass.


----------



## Godkin

Masonn1,

 Follow Gradofan's advice - try the tubes first, then move on from there.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The YAQIN is a great little device - a definate bargain (I bought mine for £12 ($24), plus £20 delivery). I bought it from a E-Bay seller called Apple.

 Does the DV need it? Probably not - it sounds great without it. But the X-DAC did need it, I thought it sounded a bit "thin" at times. The YAQIN adds a touch of warmth to it, as well as a wider soundstage. On theoretical grounds, the YAQIN - or indeed any tube buffer - is a big "no-no" because it adds distortion to the sound. But to my ears it sounds very good - very pure. 

 How it compares to the X-10 V3 is, again, a matter of choice. I have an X-10 V3 and a YAQIN - and I am selling the X-10 V3. Both are very good. When comparing them, it is good to remember the old adage about GRADO and SENNHEISER headphones: the GRADOs put you on the stage, the SENNHEISERs in the audience. The same can be said of the tube buffers: the X-10 V3 places you on the stage, the YAQIN in the audience. The X-10 V3 is more in you face and impactful; the YAQIN has a huge soundstage, but some of the detail that was in you face with the X-10 V3 is in the background with the YAQIN.

 I had the X-CAN running all day on the YAQIN - sounded great, but a few hours of listening is hardly definitive.

 The mods to my X-CAN are along the lines of those recommended by Pinky. I actually started modding mine - replacing the horrible, nasty sounding JAMICON caps - based on Mike's mods to the V2. However, Mike took them to a whole new level - new Soviet tubes, ultrafast diodes, plus attempting to remedy the X-CAN's inherent design flaw: the mis-matching of transistors which caused voltages to well on one side of the amp. The reason for me buying the 332 in the first place was to have another amp because my X-CAN had developed horrible scorch marks of the left hand side of the PCB.

 Mods to the X-DAC V3 do make an improvement. At the minute, I am experimenting with op-amps, so nothing definitive so far. I am currently burning in a pair of AD826s, replacing a pair of OPA2604s. Both are better than the stock NE5536s. The mods are not those recommended by SandyK. All caps replaced by PANASONIC FCs and ELNA SILMICs, ultrafast diodes fitted, op-amps upgraded, output caps replaced by Russian mil-spec PIOs and the case lined with bitumen sheets.

 All and all, a very good improvement. Sound much more full-bodied, better detail and resolution, and much deeper bass._

 

Does the XCAN v3 with the PF mods (which I have) still have the imbalance in voltages? I haven't noticed any overheating on the PCB in mine (knock on wood). Is there any "fix" for that issue? If so... where can I find it. I've completed all the PF mods, except the by-pass caps - which he said didn't really make much of an improvement.

 Also... can you swap OPA2604's directly with AD826's? Aren't the 2604's dual channel and the AD826's single channel? Did you use some type of "brown-dog" adapter to fabricate an AD826 dual channel opamp (two AD826's), like Partsconnexion's dual channel OPA627 chips?

 Finally... did you mod your X10 v3 ala PF (maybe you mentioned this earlier)? If so, did those mods make much of an improvement?


----------



## Turn&cough

I've had the V3 for about two weeks now with some Senn 600s(with Cardas cable)
 Only upgrade I did was switching the tubes for a pair of EI Elite's. I can't say I've noticed much of a difference. I'm reasonably happy with the V3. It has sufficient, if not thundering, bass and good detail. One thing, however, is I'd like to smooth the upper mids a bit and put some meat on them - I find them a bit too thin and aggressive for my tastes. I'm a bit strapped for cash right now so I was trying to avoid the Pink Floyd "whole enchilada" upgrade. I was wondering what an inexpensive solution to my problem might be. Tubes, caps, etc. 

 Oops - just realized this was the 332 thread - sorry


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *masonn1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it normal to hear slight buzzing in the phones, after about 50 hours of listening? The buzzing is very apperant at higher volumes, in quiet part of songs._

 

sounds like a case of high DC offset on your source.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Turn&cough* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had the V3 for about two weeks now with some Senn 600s(with Cardas cable)
 Only upgrade I did was switching the tubes for a pair of EI Elite's. I can't say I've noticed much of a difference. I'm reasonably happy with the V3. It has sufficient, if not thundering, bass and good detail. One thing, however, is I'd like to smooth the upper mids a bit and put some meat on them - I find them a bit too thin and aggressive for my tastes. I'm a bit strapped for cash right now so I was trying to avoid the Pink Floyd "whole enchilada" upgrade. I was wondering what an inexpensive solution to my problem might be. Tubes, caps, etc. 

 Oops - just realized this was the 332 thread - sorry_

 

A couple of suggestions:

 1. You might try the Saratov 6H23N-EB tubes - they've got a bit warmer sound and they seem to temper the highs some / very solid bass.

 2. You might try this forum, or email PF to obtain some ideas.

http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/xcanpropage.htm

 But... you'll likely have to spend a bit of money to achieve the sound you're after with the XCAN v3 (e.g. full PF mods, a PSU, and possibly the X10D v3 Tube Buffer). 

 You can get there... but... not without a bit of investment.


----------



## Godkin

As far as I am aware, only the very early X-CANS have this design flaw. In the later ones, they have replaced the transistors, and also raised the resistors off the PCB, thus preventing the scorching and the resistors "welding" themselves the the curcuit board. 

 I made the mistake of leaving my X-CANS powered up all the time (as MF tells you to do). If you have an early X-CANS, the only way to prevent this scorching is to leave the amp off when you are not using it. Mike also recommends fitting heatsinks to the transistors to dissipate some of the heat.

 The AD826 is a dual op-amp so no worries. I have fitted IC sockets so the op-amps just push into place.

 No mods to the X-10 V3. Totally pristine, although I have heard Mike's mods do make a substantial improvement.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The AD826 is a dual op-amp so no worries. I have fitted IC sockets so the op-amps just push into place._

 

Yeah... I see now... dumb question... I should have looked up the specs.


----------



## masonn1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sounds like a case of high DC offset on your source._

 

This is probably the reason, since my source is a laptop. (is this harmful to the amp?)

 I'm about to buy a CDplayer though. Are there certain players who "match" with this amp, or do the source and amp not effect eachother much?

 PS> The amp "hums" a bit, from itself I mean. Is it normal?


----------



## Godkin

As far as I am aware, DC can harm an amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not yet totally knowledgeable about the innards of the 332, but the X-CAN V3 certainly had a couple of 10uF caps at the input stage to stop DC getting into it. Do not know if the 332 has the same potection, but it is probable to assume that it does.


----------



## masonn1

If I were to buy a CDP with a built-in hd amp (Marantz CD5001), and use it with the DV332. could I then use one of these http://signalcable.com/silvermini.html cables to connect them(the rca plugs going in the DV332, and the mini plug going in the cdp, with a 1/4" adaptor - and the headphones going in the DV332), and use the capacity of both the amp in the CDP and the DV332?

 If not, would I lose any quality of sound if I use this cable instead of a pair of rca to rca?


----------



## neogeosnk

Can't decide between Darkvoice 332 and the Little Dot MV IV. I'm currently looking for a good match for my grado headphones. Darkvoice 332 aren't supposed to sound that great with the grados so I'm on the fence. LD MV IV I only see one review and nothing with low independence headphones. Anyone help me out? Thanks!


----------



## Godkin

The Little Dot certainly looks a nice piece of kit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Which model do you intend to do for - the simple MK IV ot the MK IV SE? Looking at the specs, it seems as though it can drive both low and high impedance cans. Looking at a picture of the PCB, I would say that the LITTLE DOT may also go better with higher impedance cans, but I stand to be corrected.

 The 332, for what I hear, does not sound bad with lower impedance cans, it is just that it sounds better with higher impedance ones. 

 Reviews place it very firmly in the 336i territory, although one reviewer noted that the 336i had more bass power. The 332 is a model above the 336i, so I would suppose that the 332 is a better amp than the LITTLE DOT. But that is mere supposition on my part, and anyway one person may prefer the LITTLE DOT over the 332 and one may not.

 The hybrid X-CAN V3 would be a better amp with GRADOs -especially a PINK FLOYD modded one - as would the MAD tube amps. But both are more expensive though.


----------



## chesebert

Actually MAD tube did no better than the 332 when I did the comparison with my HF-1. I think what I meant was 332 is ok with Grado compared to other godly amps


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually MAD tube did no better than the 332 when I did the comparison with my HF-1. I think what I meant was 332 is ok with Grado compared to other godly amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What tubes were in the DV 332? 

 I've yet to find the DV 332 anywhere near as smooth with Grados, as other phones - it tends to clip, or have rough highs at higher (but listenable) volumes. The PF XCAN v3 is smoother with Grados. Perhaps, it's the tubes I'm using... although, I've tried about all of them.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What tubes were in the DV 332? 

 I've yet to find the DV 332 anywhere near as smooth with Grados, as other phones - it tends to clip, or have rough highs at higher (but listenable) volumes. The PF XCAN v3 is smoother with Grados. Perhaps, it's the tubes I'm using... although, I've tried about all of them._

 

SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs and WE403B.

 I have a warm source as well.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs and WE403B.

 I have a warm source as well._

 

The only tubes I haven't tried - the WE403B's.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs and WE403B.

 I have a warm source as well._

 

So.. let me get this straight. With the SVETLANA 6S19P & WE403b tubes, Grado headphones should sound good? If so.. I'll pull the trigger right now... Anyone?!


----------



## Bozz_Keren

anybody compared MAD Ear+ with 332i? 
 i wonder if $200+ is worth it


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So.. let me get this straight. With the SVETLANA 6S19P & WE403b tubes, Grado headphones should sound good? If so.. I'll pull the trigger right now... Anyone?!_

 

'sound good' is so subjective. What do you have right now? It sounds better than PPA, M3, not as good as Dynahi, Apache, B52, about the same as PPX (PPX is smoother, but 332 has a better midrange) 

 Is that good? I don't know. Its good enough for me. I actually enjoy Grado equally from the headphone out of the Presonus Central Station.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_'sound good' is so subjective. What do you have right now?_

 

I'm very new to the scene and currently have cmoy amp.. Yes I'm a novice thus all the questions (newbie). Didn't know there was a community like this, my head is about to explode trying to take it all in. What I know is this.. I want a tube amp, super excited about tube rolling and can't wait to get started. Don't want to make the wrong decision and end up buying something that has no "Head-fi forum" support. I know the veteran members probably don't realize this but the knowledge on these pages is priceless to a newcomer. But at the end of the day, still sitting on the fence.. LD Mark IV vs. Darkvoice 332 for my grados. And is the sound significantly better than Cmoy amp?


----------



## Skylab

Well if you really are excited to tube-roll, go with the Darkvoice. Much better tube-rolling options.


----------



## cclragnarok

Actually, I think the Little Dot MK IV has a little more tube rolling options than the Darkvoice 332.


----------



## Skylab

Sorry, you're right. I was thinking about the 336i. I'm following too many Darkvoice threads at once


----------



## chesebert

332 is actually quite boring if you want to roll tubes that much. I haven't changed my set of tubes for a long time now.

 then again, I am not much of a tweaker. 

 I don't know if this means anything. But the dealer I bought my 332 from also has a slew of LDM stuff, including the MKIII at the time. I didn't even try them because the dealer told me they are not even the same class; hearsay, just FYI.


----------



## Gradofan2

Have you seen this one?

http://www.headphonesrock.com/Little-Dot-MKIV-SE.html

 If not... you may want to read it. It suggests the DV is much better.

 Hey... if you want to buy on appearance - then get the LD MKIV - it looks beautiful.

 RE: tube rolling... to me... is "a bit of a pain." I'd much rather have an amp, with a tube sound... in which I didn't have to roll tubes to achieve a great sound. You'll find almost no amps at <$1,000 that sound better than the DV 332 with Senns and ATH's... with the stock tubes.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you seen this one?

http://www.headphonesrock.com/Little-Dot-MKIV-SE.html


 Hey... if you want to buy on appearance - then get the LD MKIV - it looks beautiful.

 RE: tube rolling... to me... is "a bit of a pain." I'd much rather have an amp, with a tube sound... in which I didn't have to roll tubes to achieve a great sound._

 

 No it's not about appearance, I prefer Darkvoice esthetics actually. I read the review and it said it was better than the Darkvoice 336i not the 332. so .. I'm still looking for a definitive answer. Grados and Darkvoice 332 or MKIV. Gradofan.. uh.. I was hoping you could chime in on this. I have vast knowledge of video games..thus my screen name. Seriously.. Thank You everyone. This is now my favorite forum.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No it's not about appearance, I prefer Darkvoice esthetics actually. I read the review and it said it was better than the Darkvoice 336i not the 332. so .. I'm still looking for a definitive answer. Grados and Darkvoice 332 or MKIV. Gradofan.. uh.. I was hoping you could chime in on this. I have vast knowledge of video games..thus my screen name. Seriously.. Thank You everyone. This is now my favorite forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As I read it... I understood the reviewer to be saying the 336i and MKIV were about equal, except that the bass of the 336i was better than that of the MKIV. The slight noise differential was not relevant, since it was not noticeable at listening volumes with music playing.

 As far as Grados with the DV 332... as I've noted elsewhere... the Grados seem a bit rough with the DV 332 - not as smooth as the Senns and ATHs with it. I would not buy the DV 332, if I were planning on driving Grados with it, primarily. But... with the HD650s it is "spectacular."


----------



## neogeosnk

Great.. so I eventually want to upgrade to: AKG K701 headphones, because it's supposed to be a cross of Grados and Senns. I don't like the "muted" sound of the Senns. and think this is well balanced headphone from what I've read. If the Darkvoice 332 is as good as the Cmoy amp I have with the grados. Then I have no problem with that (I'll buy the 332). I will eventually get the AKG headphones with slightly higher indepenence and should be just fine.


----------



## Gradofan2

I'd reserve my judgment on the Senns until I'd heard them with something other than a Cmoy amp - say something like the DV 332. They're a whole different set of phones, than you think - especially the HD650's - much brighter / clearer / faster.


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

After the mix up with 3c-store, and me and Gradofan2's amps, my replacement amp was finally shipped yesterday by DHL. I am now eagerly waiting....... again. I just hope this isn't a case of speaking too soon when i say it's all sorted now as far as i'm concerned. 

 Grado's amp that was mistakenly sent to me is bottlenecked somewhere in the outward office of exchange on its way back to china. I narrowly avoided being sent a black replacement for the white amp i purchased, after the seller failed to consult me on wether that would be acceptable. It is apparently a white amp on its way to me now after i had to wait for him to get stock. 

 I havn't paid anything extra, and although the communication and reassurance that i would have liked from the seller, regarding a purchase of (for me anyway) a significant sum of money was lacking, in the not too distant future it will all be sorted.


----------



## Surefoot

Hello, after lurking for a while and getting some nice hardware thanks to the infos found here, i've decided to post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 So i'm the new & happy owner of a DV 332, still with stock tubes, just burnt in.
 My ATH-W1000, with their clear and very detailed sound obviously show the faults of the stock tubes (muddy bass, harsh treble). But coming from a solid state amplifier, that's still a big step forward, the sound is more clear definitely.
 Now i'm looking to reduce the treble harshness, and give more impact to the bass (typically, bassdrum kicks on metal, lack some rumble on stock tubes). Since the W1000 has very neutral bass by itself (and is very bright already), i'm looking for tubes that extend the bass somewhat.
 I've read on this topic (spent quite a few hours !) and ordered the following tubes:
 * Mullard M8100
 * Svetlana 6S19P-V
 * Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V (i'll compare with the Svets)
 They're all on their way from their respective countries.
 I'm looking at one more option for signal tubes: Mullard 6AK5W. I've read here that the Tung Sol 6AK5W give deep bass, but i cant find any at the moment. Anyone knows about the Mullard sound for those signal tubes ? How does it compare to the M8100 ? And to the Tung Sols ?
 Again, i'm already a happy owner, i'm rediscovering my album collection, and found every default on my poor old CD player sound output (i'll either output from the XFi Prelude only, or get myself a decent CDP).


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dub Skylarkings* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After the mix up with 3c-store... 
 I havn't paid anything extra, and although the communication and reassurance that i would have liked from the seller, regarding a purchase of (for me anyway) a significant sum of money was lacking, in the not too distant future it will all be sorted._

 

I'm surprised you were able to get him to send your replacement before he received the return of the original amp. 

 And... I hope you finally get the one you ordered. 

 I simply have no confidence in the guy whatsoever. He's either terribly inept, at best, or a con, at worst. 

 While I've gotten my money back via Mastercard... I'm still fighting with the guy to get him to pay for the return of his incorrect/defective amp (220 volt amp). As I indicated previously... except for the hassle, and delay in getting the correct amp (which I still don't have), I really don't care whether he ever gets his amp back... so long as I got my money back - which I have in hand. If he doesn't mind not getting his amp back (because he won't pay for the return shipping) - I'm really unaffected. In the meantime, I'm enjoying his amp, using a voltage converter.

 When you do get your amp... you'll be very pleased with its sound.


----------



## jellojoe

I've been thinking about getting some AT's. I would also be interested to know which tubes pair well with the AT's. Right now, I'm using Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and either the Mullard EF95 or the Tung-Sol 6AK5W (still burning in).


----------



## Surefoot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jellojoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been thinking about getting some AT's. I would also be interested to know which tubes pair well with the AT's._

 

You'll definitely have to listen to the AT's first, unless you already know about their super clear, precise, surgical sound.
 I had tried some Seins and i didnt like their 'muffled' sound, but here in France it's the most popular kind of sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 even for speakers !
 Being a heavy metal fan, i have lots of trouble finding a sound system that matches the combination of rich bass, and super fast highs that characterize this kind of music. For me the AT cans solved a good part of the equation: they deliver a very fast, clear, in-your-face sound, and they reproduce rather well the ear-ripping sound quality of metal (over saturated guitars, ever present cymbals, huge dynamics). I know for a fact many people do NOT like this kind of sound (typically "bass heads") since it's too bright for them. I like counting the high hat cymbal hits even behind a heavy riff and screaming vocals.. On the bass side, they do NOT extend the bass like some other closed cans do, they remain neutral in their delivery, but still super precise (you can "read" bass lines very easily).
 The 332 in stock form emphasizes too much the highs (which become harsh) for the AT cans, this is the main problem i'll try to solve with tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A bit more impact for bass drums would be nice too (or it's the dynamics of my source, i'll have to try that as well)
 But so far, this W1000 is a fantastic piece of equipment, sexy to look at and touch (that nice wood !) and super comfortable even for long listening sessions (the lack of bass boost is helping for that too). The wood gives a nice impact to most drums, and a pleasing coloration to strings. But it's totally without mercy for bad sources and amps: every little default appears sharp and clear (such as 332's harsh highs).

 (edit) i'm interested to read about the sound changes brought by the Tung-Sol 6AK5W and Mullard EF95 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And of course i'll write something about how the M8100 sound with the AT cans.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surefoot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_....
 I'm looking at one more option for signal tubes: Mullard 6AK5W. I've read here that the Tung Sol 6AK5W give deep bass, but i cant find any at the moment. Anyone knows about the Mullard sound for those signal tubes ? How does it compare to the M8100 ? And to the Tung Sols ?_

 

I've not done the back to back experiments, but I do think the Tung Sol 6AK5W have deeper bass than the Mullard EF95. The pulsating bass lines on Massive Attack's Mezzanine are much more dominant than before on my AKG K340.


----------



## Godkin

Hi Surefoot. The 332, in my opinion, is not at its greatest driving lower impedance cans. Like Gradofan says, it can sound harsh and brittle at the top-end. Its a fact that the stock Chinese 6J1 signal tubes do not help matters, but some of this can be alleviated by better tubes.

 The HD650s may have a warm character, but with the 332 behind them they sound superb. 

 I went out today and bought a cheapish mains conditioner to try: the TACIMA CS929 at about £35 ($70). There seems to be a debate as to whether these devices improve or degrade sound quality. Initial impressions with the 332 are very good: bass especially seems deeper; more detail; and the timbre of the music is a tad improved. But early days yet.


----------



## Surefoot

Well Godkin that's why i have ordered better tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I had my W1000 before my amp, and i chose the 332 since for two reasons, first its very nice sound (even with stock tubes) that shoots way over its price, and second its slight bias on bass which will help "equalize" the sound for driving the W1000's. I like the bright highs, i just want to tame the harshness. For tube amps, i dont see any other option right now... The W1000 just highlighted all the downfalls of the solid state amp i was using before. Now it sounds fuller and better than even my equalized SS amp, it says a lot (? well, for me) about the 332. I really want tube sound, that's how heavy metal SHOULD sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jellojoe: thanks ! So i will keep watching for those Tung Sols to appear on flea-bay..


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surefoot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..
 jellojoe: thanks ! So i will keep watching for those Tung Sols to appear on flea-bay.._

 

I got them from ebay seller indsales. Maybe you can just contact him/her to see if there are anymore.


----------



## Fairbanks

Did anybody notice in the headphonesrock.com reviews that the Yarland P-100 was I highly regarded amp.I'm throughly enjoying mine with 1959 Amperex "D' getter el84's and GE 5670's.Also Sound & Vision where I got it got's my back in case anything happens to it. Also many tube rolling options are avalable which changes the character of the amp to whatever kind of mood your in.Never boring and still going strong after 7 months use.Too bad it didn't take off on this web site.Oh well.


----------



## neogeosnk

Ok guys .. one last question. Want to get the Beyerdynamic DT880. How would this sound with this amp? Pretty sure I'm pulling the trigger tomorrow morning on the 332 (have to sleep on it). I'm a huge Grado fan and hope to have a happy medium between Senns and Grados. Think the Beyers are gonna be my sweetspot. One last thing Jasmine chine on eBay.. is that where everyone is getting theirs?


----------



## Godkin

The Beyers are high impedance cans - 250ohm I think. They should sound sweet with the 332. 

 I bought mine for Jasmine. Very reliable seller. Now go spend your money.


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

I received my 332 today. Wow it got here quickly from China, 4 days (not even 4 full days) Good job DHL.

 So far i'm very impressed with the build quality, its a dense bit of kit! The case seems reassuringly meaty, and its generally a tidy, pretty little unit. It looks good in the white with silver faceplate, and sits nicely next to my silver cdp and 701's.

 I'm letting it settle down with stock tubes, once i have an idea of the stock sound i'll have a play and see what it can really do. Can't wait


----------



## Godkin

Yeah, the build quality is what impressed me the first time I seen it. It weighs an chunky 5kg. In white (silver) it looks gorgeous. Any pics in the pipeline?


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

I'll sort you some pics out after i've polished the drool marks off.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Beyers are high impedance cans - 250ohm I think. They should sound sweet with the 332. 

 I bought mine for Jasmine. Very reliable seller. Now go spend your money._

 

Pulled the trigger! Now the waiting begins (the hardest part IMO). On to the Beyer purchase. May buy a little dot III for the grados, unless someone comes up with a tube rolling combination that works out.


----------



## Godkin

Good on you, Neogeosnk.


----------



## Surefoot

I received the Mullard 8100's this morning. I'm still waiting for the russian power tubes, but i'm already heating up the 8100's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 A quick note, one of my tube sockets is not very tight, i can rock the tube back and forth, about 2-3mm from the top.
 So far the just installed 8100 tubes deliver their promises, the bass has more impact definitely, the details are here, but i have to run to do a few chores before i can start a serious listening session !


----------



## Godkin

The loose-fitting tube sockets are pretty much standard with the 332, Surefoot. Usually, the smaller sockets are OK but the larger ones are loose. The component quality in the 332 is quite high but the tube sockets are cheap, hence the loose fit.

 Glad to see the M8100s arrived. First thing I noticed about them was the bass - much more solid. The characteristic MULLARD sound will soon emerge - sweet, lush and open.


----------



## Skylab

Anyone tried these tubes in the 332?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-RCA-Command-...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## Godkin

Haven't tried the RCA 5654, but I have tried the 6AK5W. Basically, the same tube - just different designation. Look like black plates too. Very good tube. All the character of a MULLARD, but more foward, with less warmth.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The loose-fitting tube sockets are pretty much standard with the 332, Surefoot. Usually, the smaller sockets are OK but the larger ones are loose. The component quality in the 332 is quite high but the tube sockets are cheap, hence the loose fit.

 Glad to see the M8100s arrived. First thing I noticed about them was the bass - much more solid. The characteristic MULLARD sound will soon emerge - sweet, lush and open. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah I'm not the only one with somewhat loose power tube sockets. One of my power tubes is a bit like the tower of Pisa. Still works though.


----------



## Godkin

Exactly the same as mine, Jellojoe. Maybe that's one reason why they provide the black tube covers - to keep the damned things straight.

 I have bought some tube dampers to stop nasty tube vibrations. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Has anyone tried them yet?


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they disipate the heat and in theory they prolong the life of the tube._

 

 So do they disipate heat from the tubes? Does anyone have them on? Or is it just for shipping purposes?


----------



## Godkin

Don't know about dissapating heat, but certainly stopping the vibrations could help to prolong the life of the tube. Personally, I don't use the "tube dampers" supplied with the 332. I know it sounds shallow, but I like to see the tube glowing, adds to the experience somehow. 

 I'll try these tube dampers from the US and see what sonic improvements they bring. I'll report back.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't know about dissapating heat, but certainly stopping the vibrations could help to prolong the life of the tube. Personally, I don't use the "tube dampers" supplied with the 332. I know it sounds shallow, but I like to see the tube glowing, adds to the experience somehow. 

 I'll try these tube dampers from the US and see what sonic improvements they bring. I'll report back._

 

I tried them on my PF XCAN v3. 

 They seemed to tighten up the sound a small bit - made it sound more SS, and less euphonic and tubey - less "microphonic vibrations" or "good distortion."

 I decided I preferred the more euphonic, tubey sound in my tube/ss hybrid PF XCAN v3, which already has a bit more SS sound, than OTL tube amps. So I don't use the dampers.

 I think that's also likely the case with my DV 332 - although I recently bought some to try (there were so inexpensive). The DV 332 has such a SS sound already that I'm not sure they will improve it's sound - likely make it even more SS sounding. They're more likley needed on the 336i - which is probably way too euphonic (too distorted).

 But... let us know how they change the sound of your DV 332.


----------



## Surefoot

The M8100 tubes definitely give a tighter, deeper bass. It's very well defined, and not boomy / overblown. The "rumble" of bass drums and orchestra big drums is back. I still do not have the russian power tubes, but with stock ones the sound is already very pleasing ! The sound is rich and open, the guitars sound just perfect.
 I see why people would not like the Grado cans with that amp, the ATH i have sounds already very bright with powerful mids and highs. The even lower impedance Grados would sound too bright i suppose.

 I'm keeping the black tube covers off, they have to be forced quite a bit to fit over the tubes, i dont like that...


----------



## Godkin

Thanks Gradofan. I ordered the tube dampers from HERBIE'S AUDIO LABS - the UltraSonic HAL-O 7s and HAL-O 9s seem to do the job. I'll try them and see if they bring about any improvements.

 One of the reasons I kept the 332 tube dampers off was, like Surefoot says, they are a tight fit to get back on - especially with the larger ULYANOVSK tubes. I can just imagine the tube smashing into a million pieces.


----------



## neogeosnk

Three more questions.. So my Darkvoice 332 amp is en route but I want to do a proper burn-in before using. I did a search and didn't find an answer. Yes I know that you need either white noise or regular music playing through amp. But my question is.. Do the headphones need to be plugged in or just music playing through it? I don't mind playing music through my headphones but think the wife doesn't like hearing music at all hours of the night. And how many hours of burn-in is good for this amp? And finally, M8100 tubes with the better Bass, how do i find those? Can't find those on ebay. Thanks again.. for helping a headphone N00b.


----------



## Skylab

You should NEVER operate a tube amp without headphones plugged in. 

 That said, to break in an amp, you just need a little current flowing. It doesn't have to be loud.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should NEVER operate a tube amp without headphones plugged in. 

 That said, to break in an amp, you just need a little current flowing. It doesn't have to be loud._

 

Oi, one is not suppose to switch headphones with the amp on?


----------



## Skylab

Its bad for tube amps to be on without a load attached. I switch headphones occasionally with my tube amps on, but I turn the volume down, and I do it quickly. Even still, your not supposed to...


----------



## Surefoot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And finally, M8100 tubes with the better Bass, how do i find those? Can't find those on ebay. Thanks again.. for helping a headphone N00b. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Just type "m8100" or "cv4040" in ebay search, there are currently 2 sets for sale (from the UK), more will probably show up with time. Since they were made by the British, you'll find them mostly in EU.
 One member here told that Tung Sol 6AK5W (US made, then) also give excellent bass, i cannot find any so far, but you'll find them closer to you if you're in the US.
 You'll also want to change the power tubes by 6S19P (-V = military grade) made in Russia, again just type the reference in ebay search, several will turn up. Better even, there are still some of them for sale on these forums, contact the seller


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its bad for tube amps to be on without a load attached. I switch headphones occasionally with my tube amps on, but I turn the volume down, and I do it quickly. Even still, your not supposed to..._

 


 Is it really bad for the amp? I thought it's only bad for the output tubes.


----------



## Mazuki

I've read on the Darkvoice main forum that since these Darkvoice amps are all Cathode Follower types, it does not matter ever if there is a load on the output.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read on the Darkvoice main forum that since these Darkvoice amps are all Cathode Follower types, it does not matter ever if there is a load on the output._

 

So I don't have to plug in headphones? Darkvoice Forum? I tried looking for official site but nothing.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cclragnarok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it really bad for the amp? I thought it's only bad for the output tubes._

 

That's correct, sorry. I should have been more specific.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read on the Darkvoice main forum that since these Darkvoice amps are all Cathode Follower types, it does not matter ever if there is a load on the output._

 

Really? I thought all tube amps had this "issue". That would be great to know. Too bad I can't read Chinese...


----------



## Mazuki

Quote:


 So I don't have to plug in headphones? Darkvoice Forum? I tried looking for official site but nothing. 
 

I can't find the forum post regarding this issue, but I definitely remember seeing it being asked a couple of times. 

 It would probably be best to shoot John Broskie at TubeCAD (or Pete Millet) an email. He's written pretty extensively on the cathode follower circuit.


----------



## fanta

OK I'd like to say first that I didn't read this entire thread - it's huge! I am however looking into buying an amp and have a few questions regarding the 332, so what better place to ask than this thread...

 - I was looking into the Gilmore Lite for my HD650s but read that it reduces the sound stage, something I LOVE about my sennheisers... how does the 332 fair in this matter?

 - I never owned a a tube amp, I'll be using this on my desk next to my PC... is there any noticeable heat/noise? Even the smallest amount would be annoying... 

 - A lot of people mention modding this and using different tubes, I'm not interested in any of that but I just need to know - will this thing last for years? I don't want to worry about replacing tubes every once in a while...

 Thanks for any info.


----------



## Skylab

As much as I love tube amps, I'd say you should stick to solid state. Tubes do produce heat, and can need replacing (although they can last for 50 years).


----------



## Godkin

Hi Fanta,

 As Skylab says, the 332 does produce a lot of heat - any valve amp does - and the tubes will need replacing. The good news is that tubes are cheap and easy to replace.

 You couldn't get a better amp if you have the HD650s. The 332 was designed with the HD650s in mind, and they sound superb together. Some criticise the HD650s for being warm and slightly veiled, but with the 332 I never heard them sound so alive and clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The life-span of tubes can be anything up to 10,000 hours. If, say, you were to replace the stock tubes, the M8100s would last about 10,000 hours, while a pair of ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs would last about 5,000.

 Having said that, with a SS amp you have none of those worries.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Fanta,

 You couldn't get a better amp if you have the HD650s. The 332 was designed with the HD650s in mind, and they sound superb together. Some criticise the HD650s for being warm and slightly veiled, but with the 332 I never heard them sound so alive and clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whatt!! If that's the case.. I'll pick up some 650's instead of the Beyer 880's. My Darkvoice 332 should be showing up any day now. Didn't want headphones that sounded dead like Senns do with cmoy amp.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whatt!! If that's the case.. I'll pick up some 650's instead of the Beyer 880's. My Darkvoice 332 should be showing up any day now. Didn't want headphones that sounded dead like Senns do with cmoy amp._

 

"That's a fact, Jack!"

 The HD650's never sounded so good - a whole new set of phones!


----------



## Godkin

The 880s should sound great also - 250ohms.


----------



## chesebert

I would get whichever cans you actually enjoy. I had 332 on HF-1/RS1, 600/650, ED9, K701 and ATH and I enjoyed them all.


----------



## Gradofan2

I'm sure most phones sound good with the DV 332... but... I doubt many have such a dramatic improvement in their SQ, as the HD650s do. 

 Their SQ is pretty "average" with most equipment - but, they almost sound like Grados with the DV 332 (of course... with the right DAC, cable, interconnects, etc.) - they become much brighter, faster, more detailed... just much more exciting, while retaining their warm, bold, rich, driving sound... without becoming strident, or harsh.

 I don't hear that much improvement with my HD580/600s, RS-1s, or AD2000s... and, the HD580/600's may even sound a bit too bright / strident.


----------



## TURBO

Wow!. I just received my 332. I proceed to apply some simple mods, like cleaning the tubes, base and headphones jack with alcohol 99 %, so I take all the grease out of them. Followed by sanding the Tubes pins with my dremel. Niceeee......hi, hi...... No surprises, no hum, no gimmicks, no nothing, just pure sound waves. This thing is powerful like a plant. With HD650 at 9'oclock!!!.Hi.....Hi...


----------



## neogeosnk

Wow! Ok.. I know what u guys mean about Grados harsh. Time to pick up some senns 650's. Ok.. granted received the amp this morning, opened, plugged in for 30 mins and then tried it. Sure no burn-in but those Grados never sounded so bad. *edit* Came home.. fired up the amp.. let it sit for an hour... Ok.. Sound is different, not bad sound but I can see where a higher independence headphone would benefit. Its freakin loud with the Grados.


----------



## Godkin

The 332 takes an age to burn in - about 200-300hrs. Then you hit the sweet spot.


----------



## TURBO

I dont know if is the dremel treatment I did to the tubes, but the stock ones are very fun to listen. I already ordered better ones from Ukraine.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow! Ok.. I know what u guys mean about Grados harsh. Time to pick up some senns 650's. Ok.. granted received the amp this morning, opened, plugged in for 30 mins and then tried it. Sure no burn-in but those Grados never sounded so bad. *edit* Came home.. fired up the amp.. let it sit for an hour... Ok.. Sound is different, not bad sound but I can see where a higher independence headphone would benefit. Its freakin loud with the Grados._

 

<thread hijack>is that a Maltese?</thread hijack>

 HF-1 is the smoothest, RS1 is the most seductive. I don't care for much else from the Grado camp.


----------



## Surefoot

I have received all my russian 6S19P-V power tubes, as it turns out they are all from Ulyanovsk, one batch that was supposed to be Svetlana's are not (probably a mistake...).
 I'm still heating them up, so far i didnt feel much improvement over the stock tubes, as opposed to the signal tubes which made an immediate difference. I'll post later with more listening impressions.
 (edit) on Ebay i see cheap Telefunken 6AK5W tubes, anyone knows how these compare to others ?


----------



## Godkin

Did you buy the supposedly SVETLANA valves from Anthony Welch? He regularly sells SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs which are in fact ULYANOVSKs. For some reason, there seems to be a shortage of the SVETs. 

 He also sells 6AK5Ws when they are Soviet 6J1P-EVs. The guy is either ignorant of what the tubes actually are, or he is misleading people.


----------



## Surefoot

I got mine from a guy in Ukraine, ebay handle is alexer1. I got 9 Ulyanovsk tubes instead of the advertised 4 Svetlana's, so i wont complain, plus they are from years 1975-1979. Too bad i already warmed up newer ones (made in 2003), i'd be curious to know if there's a difference.
 On a related note, i now have an excess of 6S19P-V from Ulyanovsk, i think i'll sell them if people are interested...


----------



## Godkin

That is a good idea, Surefoot. Ages back, I bought 10 ULYANOVSKs and 10 SVETLANAs. Sold them all to other 332 owners, apart from spare pair of SVETs which I am keeping for myself.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surefoot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have received all my russian 6S19P-V power tubes, as it turns out they are all from Ulyanovsk, one batch that was supposed to be Svetlana's are not (probably a mistake...).
 I'm still heating them up, so far i didnt feel much improvement over the stock tubes, as opposed to the signal tubes which made an immediate difference. I'll post later with more listening impressions.
 (edit) on Ebay i see cheap Telefunken 6AK5W tubes, anyone knows how these compare to others ?_

 


 I never tried the stock tubes, but the difference between the output tubes was pretty small IMO. I've tried the Ulyanovsk 6S19P, Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V, and Svetlana 6S19P-V tubes, and they all sounded pretty much the same to me. I am using the Ulyanovsk tubes right now simply because I have a lot of them.

 The driver tubes definitely have more impact on the sound of the amp.


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cclragnarok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The driver tubes definitely have more impact on the sound of the amp._

 

Driver tubes, are those the smaller tubes? and what are you using for those?


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Driver tubes, are those the smaller tubes? and what are you using for those?_

 

Yes. They are the smaller tubes.

 I'm currently using the Western Electric 403B, but other tubes like the Mullard M8100 also sound very nice.


----------



## Surefoot

Yes driver or signal tubes are the small ones.
 I'm rather happy with the Mullard M8100 as they deliver a good impact, and sound *just nice* (that tube sound is like a drug !). They provide excellent separation, some people might be disturbed to hear each and every instrument very clearly in its own location...
 I'll experiment with 1 or 2 other kind of tubes if i can find them, but i think i'm settled now.


----------



## riverlethe

Would the Darkvoice 332 go well with a Zhaolu D3 and HD650's? 
 How would this compare with a Headroom Desktop?


----------



## neogeosnk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cclragnarok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes. They are the smaller tubes.

 I'm currently using the Western Electric 403B, but other tubes like the Mullard M8100 also sound very nice._

 

Sweet.. well I have one WE 403b, guess I should've bought a match pair from what I've read elsewhere.


----------



## Godkin

Riverlethe, the 332 and HD650s are the PERFECT combination.


----------



## Surefoot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *neogeosnk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sweet.. well I have one WE 403b, guess I should've bought a match pair from what I've read elsewhere._

 

If you find another one that's made the same year, chances are they'll sound exactly the same. Mine are even mismatched, and i cant tell the difference, sounds that should be positioned precisely in center are there, so i suppose they have a matching sound.


----------



## Dub Skylarkings

Here is my white 332.






 A couple of larger pictures if you are that way inclined.







 The case is white, and the backplate and faceplate are silver, brushed aluminium i would guess.

 I was having a move around/tidy and sat my 701's and 332 on my cdp and it reminded me to take a few pics.


----------



## Skylab

Wow that is SWEET!


----------



## Godkin

Simply gorgeous. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And very rare too.


----------



## riverlethe

Is there a DAC under $500 that would go well with the Darkvoice 332 and HD650's?


----------



## squall343

wow..white is really very nice


----------



## Godkin

Personally, Riverlethe, I have always wanted to try some of the DACs from the far east. DACs from the likes of LITE AUDIO and DIYEDEN. Another Chinese company well worth a try is XINDAK: they make two DACs - the DAC-3 and the more expensive DAC-5 with a tube output stage. There is also MHdt Labs. They produce a number of non-oversampling DACs: the basic DIALOGUE II ($250) and above that the CONSTANTINE + ($300). Next up is the RENAISSANCE II, again with a tube output stage.


----------



## Kataklystik

The Darkvoice 332 is my first amp, so I don't know if I treat it right.
 Here is what I do:
 When I turn it on, I first unplug my phones, then I turn it on and if it seems that the tubes are working then I plug my headphones in.
 Then I let it warm up for 10-15 minutes without music playing.
 Then I listen to music.
 When I turn it off I stop the music, turn the volume to 0, unplug my headphones and turn it off.
 Is there something wrong?


----------



## Skylab

I would plug the headphones in before turning the amp on.


----------



## Kataklystik

are you sure about that? I'm only asking because I read on another thread that if a tube dies when powering up the headphone could be damaged.


----------



## Godkin

I keep my cans plugged in when powering up and down. I keep the volume down when turning on and turn the volume down before switching off.


----------



## Skylab

I guess the question is which you want to protect more - the tubes or the headphones. The odds of either getting damaged are probably low...


----------



## Kataklystik

But isn't changing a tube much cheaper and easier than getting a new pair of headphones?


----------



## Skylab

In the case of the Darkvoice, yes, but again, the tubes are unlikely to blow up...


----------



## Kataklystik

Has it actually happened that a headphone got damaged by a tube in the Darkvoice? Someone here have experiences with this?


----------



## Skylab

Certainly not in either of my 2 Darkvoice amps.


----------



## Godkin

No problems on my 332, and as far as I know no one on this forum has reported that problem.


----------



## Kataklystik

That's good to hear. So I think I'll just leave my headphones plugged in.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But isn't changing a tube much cheaper and easier than getting a new pair of headphones?_

 

In the case of 332, even the best tubes are VERY cheap, so I also think that protecting the headphones should be a higher priority. Tubes can be very expensive for some other amps though.

 Anyway, like others have said, it's unlikely for either your headphones or the tubes to be damaged. So just do whatever is most convenient I guess.


----------



## Kataklystik

Talking about tubes:
 What do you think about these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/6S19P-6c19ri-Sve...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ype=osi_widget
 They are quite cheap, the seller told me that they are all tested and he offers combined shipping.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cclragnarok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In the case of 332, even the best tubes are VERY cheap, so I also think that protecting the headphones should be a higher priority. Tubes can be very expensive for some other amps though.

 Anyway, like others have said, it's unlikely for either your headphones or the tubes to be damaged. So just do whatever is most convenient I guess._

 

Totally agree.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Talking about tubes:
 What do you think about these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/6S19P-6c19ri-Sve...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ype=osi_widget
 They are quite cheap, the seller told me that they are all tested and he offers combined shipping._

 


 I haven't tried the 6ZH1P-EV, so I can't comment on them.

 The 6S19P tubes in the first listing are NOT made by Svetlana though. Those look like Ulyanovsk 6S19P tubes. If that's what you want, I have some you can have for even cheaper.


----------



## Kataklystik

Are they inferior to the Svetlanas?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Darkvoice 332 is my first amp, so I don't know if I treat it right.
 Here is what I do:
 When I turn it on, I first unplug my phones, then I turn it on and if it seems that the tubes are working then I plug my headphones in.
 Then I let it warm up for 10-15 minutes without music playing.
 Then I listen to music.
 When I turn it off I stop the music, turn the volume to 0, unplug my headphones and turn it off.
 Is there something wrong?_

 

Just leave the phone plugged in all the time. I've heard that it's not good for a tube amp to be idling without an input signal, but I can't verify that either way.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_are you sure about that? I'm only asking because I read on another thread that if a tube dies when powering up the headphone could be damaged._

 

Only on the LDII+... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You're fine.


----------



## Kataklystik

Ok thanks for the confirmation Dept_of_Alchemy! I'll just leave them plugged in.
  Quote:


 I've heard that it's not good for a tube amp to be idling without an input signal 
 

So you think I should also have music playing when I'm only warming the amp up?


----------



## Godkin

Although a reliable seller, Anthony Welsh regularly sells ULYANOVSK tubes as SVETLANAs. Naughty, naughty. He also sells 6J1P-EVs as 6AK5Ws. 

 The 6J1P-EV is a very good sounding tube. The ones I bought from Anthony Welsh though hummed like hell. But I sent a pair to a member of this forum and they were fine.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are they inferior to the Svetlanas?_

 

There are people that prefer the Ulyanovsk tubes, and there are others that prefer the Svetlana tubes. Personally, I thought they didn't sound very different at all.

 The Svetlana tubes are in short supply though, so they might be more valuable because of that.


----------



## Kataklystik

Ok, I think I'll order them sometime between Christmas and my birthday (exactly one month after Christmas) because at the moment I'm indebted but that will change.


----------



## Surefoot

I would not order them from this guy, the photo clearly shows Ulyanovsk tubes (you can see the faint white arrow). Svetlanas have a distinct company logo on them (i dont know if either is superior or not..). Plus the 6AK5W are NOT 6AK5W ! but russian equivalents... just shady.


----------



## squall343

Just paid 410 USD for the darkvoice inclusive shipping

 Now waiting for it to arrive..i heard it takes 1 week

 So should i get copper or silver interconnect for the darkvoice?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just paid 410 USD for the darkvoice inclusive shipping

 Now waiting for it to arrive..i heard it takes 1 week

 So should i get copper or silver interconnect for the darkvoice?_

 

It sounds great with both. I'd let my phones determine which IC - with my Senns I use silver, but brighter phones may sound better with copper (e.g. Grado, ATH, etc.).


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It sounds great with both. I'd let my phones determine which IC - with my Senns I use silver, but brighter phones may sound better with copper (e.g. Grado, ATH, etc.)._

 

I currently own Alessandro MS2i, Beyer DT770, DT990 and going to buy AKG K701

 So silver or copper for me?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently own Alessandro MS2i, Beyer DT770, DT990 and going to buy AKG K701

 So silver or copper for me?




_

 

Most of those are pretty bright phones... so, I'd go with copper.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I currently own Alessandro MS2i, Beyer DT770, DT990 and going to buy AKG K701

 So silver or copper for me?




_

 

Most of those are pretty bright phones... so, I'd go with copper.

 But... you know what... you can buy some great cryo-silver IC's for "next to nothing" - which sound awesome! Maybe you can try both. Just go here and get these - truly great cables at a tremendous value.

http://www.tweekgeek.com/_e/dept/01-.../CT_Cables.htm


----------



## Nuwidol

I'm just about to pull the plug on one of these.

 I need a 240v for UK right? Or is it 220v?

 I'm confused....


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just about to pull the plug on one of these.

 I need a 240v for UK right? Or is it 220v?

 I'm confused...._

 

Generally, its 240 volt... but, I suspect they're compatible.


----------



## Godkin

Ideally, 240v for UK. Good luck.


----------



## Nuwidol

Sweet. Thanks guys.


----------



## nor_spoon

Hi everyone! 

 Just got into the headphone world, and I am currently looking for a good amp for my Sennheiser HD650. 
 I was looking at the X-can V3, but after reading this forum, the Darkvoice 332 caught my attention.

 squall343: Could you, or anyone point me to where I can get the amp for a reasonable price? 

 I have an ebay account, and live in Norway.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone! 

 Just got into the headphone world, and I am currently looking for a good amp for my Sennheiser HD650. 
 I was looking at the X-can V3, but after reading this forum, the Darkvoice 332 caught my attention.

 squall343: Could you, or anyone point me to where I can get the amp for a reasonable price? 

 I have an ebay account, and live in Norway._

 

I got mine from here
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/342802?hl=darkvoice

 if not i guess ebay do sell them also
http://electronics.search.ebay.co.uk...asmineQ5fchine


----------



## Gradofan2

Make an offer to Jasmine, or Casque, on eBay - at about $400 shipped to your location. One of them will accept it - I think Jasmine, routinely, does.

 Do Not Buy From 3c-Store - unreliable.


----------



## Godkin

Couldn't get a better amp for the HD650s - a match made in heaven.


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do Not Buy From 3c-Store - unreliable._

 

How are they unreliable? I placed an order with them yesterday for a white 332. 
 They did say it would take them 10 days to get the amp & then another 5 to get it to me.

 Edit: I've just searched the forum for 3c-Store. I wish i had done that before my order! Hopefully everything will come through alright...


----------



## Gradofan2

Search this thread under my ID... and you'll find the comments.

 The vendor sent both me and another member amps with the wrong voltage. 

 The other member saw my post and refused to accept the amp when it arrived - it was returned by EMS to the vendor, and he finally received the amp he ordered after about a month, or so. 

 I wasn't so lucky... I accepted the amp, before I discovered that the vendor had sent me the wrong amp - even after I had confirmed the correct amp with him prior to purchase/shipment. The vendor has refused to send me the correct amp, which I ordered. I had to file a complaint with Mastercard to get my money back - which I now have. But... I've still got the vendor's amp, which he sent me incorrectly. He still refuses to pay for the return shipment of his amp.

 While I'm not "out-of-pocket" anything on this transaction, thanks to Mastercard - the vendor is unreliable... and will not stand behind the amps he sells, or assure the buyer he will receive what he orders.

 Hopefully... you'll be a "lucky buyer" - and receive the amp you order.


----------



## Godkin

Received my tube dampers this afternoon. Here's some pics:













 I am not going to rush to conclusions, but so far they are very good. Bass, at first, seemed lighter, though tighter and more articulate. I have been told that they take several hours to begin to work optimally, but the bass has already deepened somewhat. Midrange and top-end are delightful: the sound appears to be more airy and open, with the music more focused and real.


----------



## nor_spoon

Just bought the 332 from Jasmine at ebay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 To shorten the waiting time, I'll go hunting for some tubes for the amp =) 

 Any recommandation is very much appreciated!


----------



## Godkin

Good on you, Nor Spoon. Yes, look for the 6S19P-Bs (Vs) from ULYANOVSK and SVETLANA. They are the mechinally improved versions of the ordinary 6S19P.

 The 6AK5 is the basic US valve. Look out for the improved versions - the 6AK5W and the 5654 (add "W" or "SQ" to this for even better types). The European equivalent of the 6AK5 is the EF95. Again, there are improved versions of this valve - the M8100 and the military CV4010. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 To complicate this even further WESTERN ELECTRIC designate their valves differently: the 6AK5 is generally the 403A and the improved type is the 403B. The Soviet version of the 6AK5 is the 6J1P and the "ruggedised" 6J1P-EV.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am not going to rush to conclusions, but so far they are very good. Bass, at first, seemed lighter, though tighter and more articulate. I have been told that they take several hours to begin to work optimally, but the bass has already deepened somewhat. Midrange and top-end are delightful: the sound appears to be more airy and open, with the music more focused and real._

 

Is that with the Svetlana's and Mullards, or RCA's?


----------



## Godkin

At the minute I am running WE 403Bs and SVETLANAs.


----------



## nor_spoon

Just bought some tubes: 6S19P-V. Seems to be from the Ulyanovsk fabric.

 Wondering if the following tubes will do the trick:

 Matched pair JAN RAYTHEON 6AK5W , 
 NOS Sylvania 6AK5 WB 
 and finally 
 6AK5W EF95 MULLARD quad NOS tube CV850

 Someone considered better than others, or are they all good?


----------



## Godkin

Your have picked some good tubes there. The Raytheons I have not tried (the ones you have chosen are US military versions - the "JAN" stands for Joint Army Navy). I have a pair of RAYTHEON CK5654s wending their way from the States so I will give them a try.

 Some on this forum swear by SYLVANIA tubes. I have only tried one pair of 5654 Greens and they hummed like hell. But I would not be put off by that - might just have been a bad pair. 

 The EF95 - and its superior brother - the M8100 are excellent tubes. Depends what brand you buy, but the MULLARDs have a very lush, rich and open sound. The CV850 is a British military valve (the "CV" means Common Valve, a military designation), but it was superceded by the CV4010. In all likehood, they were manufacured by MULLARD, so they will typically have the MULLARD house sound described above.

 But as everything in audio it is all very personal. Only you own ears can judge.


----------



## Skylab

In general (but not with these specific tubes) my experience with Raytheon tubes has been excellent.


----------



## nor_spoon

Thanks for the help Godkin! 

 I ordered the NOS Sylvania 6AK5 WB. 
 I guess I'll order some of the others too while I'm at it. 

 Good thing that this puppy use inexpensive tubes =)


----------



## Godkin

No problems, Nor Spoon. One of the great things about owning a 332 is the cheapness of the tubes, and there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of them too.

 A relatively neglected, if not totally ingored, area of tube rolling is the topic of Japanese tubes. Perhaps because of the US occuption of Japan following WW2, their tubes have the same designations as those in America - the 6AK5, 6AK5W, and 5654. The main producers of these tubes were TOSHIBA-MATSUDA and NEC. Certainly an option for the future, but I suspect the technology would have been heavily influenced by developments in the US.

 The RAYTHEON CK5654s arrived this afternoon. Burning in as I speak, but everything appears sweet. Especially with these tube dampers - superb.


----------



## nor_spoon

Ah! Finally I found some Mullard M8100 for sale on ebay! Nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Looks like they are very difficult to get.


----------



## Godkin

They can be hard to get, but the odd pair pops up on E-Bay.


----------



## nor_spoon

I can see where all this is going. What startet out as an innocent HD650 purchase, is now turning into an unstoppable train of "must-upgrade-the-weakest-link" purchases! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now off to look for a second and third job!


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They can be hard to get, but the odd pair pops up on E-Bay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There's some seller that has >70 of the M8100's a few days ago, but they're pretty pricey.


----------



## nor_spoon

This might be OT, but I've got a Echo MIA soundcard lying around. Would I benefit a great deal in SQ if I buy a 3-400$ DAC, compared to running the analog outputs from the MIA into the DV332? The reason that I ask is that the DAC's I've been looking at is kinda out of my pricerange at the moment.


----------



## nor_spoon

I cannot beleive this! I ordered the amp from Jasmines this monday, and today, thursday, my girlfriend calls me and say that FedEX has left a note that they have been trying to deliever the package at my door. 

 All I can say is WOW! This is by far the fastest delivery I have had ever. It might even take longer to send a letter from one side of town to the other
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Wonder what happened. Usually packages takes forever to go through the Customs... 

 What a most pleasant surprise!


----------



## Godkin

Jasmine is a totally trustworthy seller. But still that is one hell of a quick delivery. My 332 took five days and I thought that was fast. Now it is only a matter of getting that precious package from FedEx, opening it up, wiring it up and then letting the pleasure begin.


----------



## derek8555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Search this thread under my ID... and you'll find the comments.

 The vendor sent both me and another member amps with the wrong voltage. 

 The other member saw my post and refused to accept the amp when it arrived - it was returned by EMS to the vendor, and he finally received the amp he ordered after about a month, or so. 

 I wasn't so lucky... I accepted the amp, before I discovered that the vendor had sent me the wrong amp - even after I had confirmed the correct amp with him prior to purchase/shipment. The vendor has refused to send me the correct amp, which I ordered. I had to file a complaint with Mastercard to get my money back - which I now have. But... I've still got the vendor's amp, which he sent me incorrectly. He still refuses to pay for the return shipment of his amp.

 While I'm not "out-of-pocket" anything on this transaction, thanks to Mastercard - the vendor is unreliable... and will not stand behind the amps he sells, or assure the buyer he will receive what he orders.

 Hopefully... you'll be a "lucky buyer" - and receive the amp you order._

 

Ah oh... Just ordered from this seller and then saw this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gradofan2, is there any label on the box that might indicated what's inside? Thanks in advance!


----------



## squall343

my amp just shipped out today

 hopefully i can get them by this week


----------



## anadin

I need some advice concerning Darkvoice 332.

 I am not really into tube rolling and wondered would the stock tubes sound ok with a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.

 Many thanks.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *derek8555* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah oh... Just ordered from this seller and then saw this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gradofan2, is there any label on the box that might indicated what's inside? Thanks in advance!_

 

No... I didn't discover 3c-Store had sent me the wrong amp, until I opened the package.

 The UK buyer saw my post and inquired about the voltage on his amp, and discovered it was 110/115 voltage, rather than 220/240 voltage, before he opened his - so he was able to refuse delivery.

 If you've already paid the guy... I'm afraid you're "in for a pound."

 It's "the luck of the draw." Hopefully, you'll get what you ordered.

 For future buyers - get your Darkvoice amps from Jasmine, or Casque!


----------



## Nuwidol

Right, so the amp is on its way (soon) & i've already ordered & received some nice tubes to play with. I've never had a tube amp before so i need some help here. I take it will be best to just plonk the new tubes in rather than the stock ones out of the box right? Also i've read about people testing their tubes with tube testers. Is this needed? Is it possible for tubes to damage an amp & thats why they're tested before? I've also read about people cleaning their tubes before putting them in. Whats best to use for this? The tubes i've bought are fairly old (20 years nearly!) so i'm guessing they would of picked up some dust etc over the decades. 
 Thanks.


----------



## Godkin

Anadin, the stock tubes - 2x6J1s and 2x6S19s - will be fine, but not as good as the better equivalents. The 332 and the HD600s are the perfect combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nuwidol, good to see the 332 is on the way. Personally, I would listen to the stock tubes for a while - find out their strengths and weaknesses, and what improvements the new tubes bring. If you buy you tubes from a online store, the tubes are usually tested; some sellers on E-Bay also test their tubes, but if they do not you have to buy blind. A faulty tube has the potential to damage your amp, but most faults will result in an audible buzzing or humming, and other noises, or you may find sound coming through only one channel. You can clean your tubes: some immerse them in an alcohol based substance; others lightly sand the tube pins to remove any dirt etc. It will improve the contacts and so improve sound. Old tubes may gather dust and grime, but they are simply the best. The heyday of tube manufacture was the 50s and 60s, so any tubes from these decades should sound sweet.


----------



## derek8555

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No... I didn't discover 3c-Store had sent me the wrong amp, until I opened the package.

 The UK buyer saw my post and inquired about the voltage on his amp, and discovered it was 110/115 voltage, rather than 220/240 voltage, before he opened his - so he was able to refuse delivery.

 If you've already paid the guy... I'm afraid you're "in for a pound."

 It's "the luck of the draw." Hopefully, you'll get what you ordered._

 

Thanks for the head up. Now I just need to find my rabbitfoot now!


----------



## anadin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anadin, the stock tubes - 2x6J1s and 2x6S19s - will be fine, but not as good as the better equivalents. The 332 and the HD600s are the perfect combo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nuwidol, good to see the 332 is on the way. Personally, I would listen to the stock tubes for a while - find out their strengths and weaknesses, and what improvements the new tubes bring. If you buy you tubes from a online store, the tubes are usually tested; some sellers on E-Bay also test their tubes, but if they do not you have to buy blind. A faulty tube has the potential to damage your amp, but most faults will result in an audible buzzing or humming, and other noises, or you may find sound coming through only one channel. You can clean your tubes: some immerse them in an alcohol based substance; others lightly sand the tube pins to remove any dirt etc. It will improve the contacts and so improve sound. Old tubes may gather dust and grime, but they are simply the best. The heyday of tube manufacture was the 50s and 60s, so any tubes from these decades should sound sweet._

 



 Thanks for the reply, my head is seriously hurting me trying to choose my next amp. 

 I have been without an amp for well over a week now since I sold my Heed canamp and I am getting serious withdrawal symptoms.

 I miss listening to my HD600's so much.

 I don't know why but this Darkvoice 332 just keeps calling me in the back of my head.

 The only thing I am worried about is what vendor to purchase it from.

 I want a 332 that works in the United Kingdom 220v-240v. 

 please can you give me the link to where you purchased your 332 from I can't be without an amp for much longer


----------



## nor_spoon

anadin: I ordered my 332 from Jasmines (ebay), along with other very satisfied customers. Make Jasmine an offer, and specify which voltage you want if you order. 

 The delivery to Norway, where I live, was VERY quick, and excellent communication/service! 

 ...This is the first headphone amp I own, and I was not dissapointed! 
 Changed to some Sylvania 6AK5WB tubes today, and they seem to have opened up the sound a bit (more airy), tightened the bass, added more depth, and the music have seem to come a bit more forward. Better upper mids. Sounds more right.
 IMO, the stock tubes where a bit mushy compared with the Sylvanias.

 Somehow I think my other parts limits the performance of this amp. I think its capable of a lot more than what I am getting out of it at the moment.


----------



## bOUddha

anadin-"I am not really into tube rolling"

 Would you drive an Aston Martin on cheap bias ply tires? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Listen to the tubes that come furnished while you wait on some Svetlanas and WE 403As to arrive in the mail, give them 5-6 hours to break in, thank me profusely and proclaim your undying respect for any of my future
 opinions...

 You are most welcome in advance.


----------



## Godkin

Anadin, here is a direct link to Jasmine's store and the 332:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Darkvoice-332-...em250176074345


----------



## anadin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anadin, here is a direct link to Jasmine's store and the 332:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Darkvoice-332-...em250176074345_

 


 Godkin what did you pay with shipping, I want to make an offer cheers mate.


----------



## Godkin

Delivery was about £35. If I were you, Anadin, I would make Jasmine as offer, that way you will get a bit off delivery.


----------



## Gradofan2

I think EMS shipping... is typically about $80 to the US and EU. Add that to a cost for the amp of about $310 to $330 - and you're total should be about $390 to $410. I wouldn't "quibble" over $20-30. Or... about half those amounts in Pounds...


----------



## Surefoot

The 332 is quite heavy indeed, and the shipping costs are reasonable in regards to its weight and the distance...

 About tube rolling, the WE 403B prices are shooting up, latest auctions were insane... I am getting some Mullard 6AK5W / CV850 that should be here by next week, i'll see how they compare to the M8100 / CV4040 i already have !
 Now that everything is well burn-in i can confirm the sound of the ATH W1000 plugged in the DV 332 brings a huge smile to anyone trying it. A friend of mine tried it for the first time (i told him to bring a familiar album), the effect was immediate: ear-to-ear smile !


----------



## Godkin

Surefoot, I suspect the MULLARD 6AK5Ws are rebranded M8100s for the US market. The CV850 was superceded by the CV4010, which is the technically better tube: CV850 is equivalent to the EF95 while the CV4010 is equivalent to the M8100.


----------



## Nuwidol

double post


----------



## Nuwidol

How do you know all this tube stuff godkin?


----------



## bOUddha

"About tube rolling, the WE 403B prices are shooting up, latest auctions were insane... "

 I scored a sleeve of five NOS WE 403Bs for $13.00 a couple of weeks ago, and five 403As for $5.73 apiece a little later. There out there!


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *phergus_25* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they disipate the heat and in theory they prolong the life of the tube._

 

If anything I would think that they hold in the heat and burn up the tube. Maybe somebody who knows better can explain this.


----------



## rivieraranch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anadin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need some advice concerning Darkvoice 332.

 I am not really into tube rolling and wondered would the stock tubes sound ok with a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.

 Many thanks._

 

You would have to see whether the sound would suit you. I suspect that you have to roll in some different valves to get the best sound, though.


----------



## squall343

my amp just arrived

 took them 2 days to ship from china..

 pretty fast i can say


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rivieraranch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anything I would think that they hold in the heat and burn up the tube. Maybe somebody who knows better can explain this._

 

If they actually do that... I suppose its because they act as a heat sink, and draw out the heat from the tube into the metal coil and cover... cooling the tube.

 But... they may also be used to maintain improved contact between the tube and the socket. As the sockets heat up, they may expand and allow the tubes to become loose in their sockets, reducing contact. Just a guess.


----------



## Godkin

Let's be frank, the tube sockets on the 332 are poor quality-wise. As a result, the tubes vibrate quite a bit, creating not only distortion but shortening the life of the tubes. Controlling or stopping these vibrations, either by the stock tube dampers or by fitting specialist ones, can help prolong the life of the tube.

 Nuwidol, I guess I'm just a bit of an anorak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Every country or region has its own way of designating tubes. Europe generally uses the MULLARD-PHILIPS system, while the US uses one devised by RETMA. Obviously, MULLARD used its own system to designate tubes in Europe: EF95, M8100 and CV4010. The 6AK5W is a RETMA designation. I assume any MULLARD tube with that designation is either a rebranded M8100 or, more probably, a US made 6AK5W stamped with the MULLARD name.


----------



## Gradofan2

Does anyone have the Darkvoice web site, or Email address???

 See my other post...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...84#post3388184


----------



## Godkin

As far as I know their e-mail address, according to their 332 manual is: xmdkq@tom.com. The only other place I know of is the DIY.NET forum: www.diybuy.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=28.

 It is a real pain the DV do not have a website. A company of their standing should have one.


----------



## Gradofan2

Thanks for the address... I didn't even think to look in the manual... "duh."


 Hey... by the way... have I told everyone today... how absolutely incredible the Senns sound with this set up: 

 Cal Audio Delta Transport / Alpha Tube DAC > DV332 > HD580/600s or HD650s.

 It sounds great with the RS-1s, and AD2000s too! 

 Simply phenomenal!

 Hard to believe this setup that's so inexpensive (especially with the modded HD580s)... can sound so great!


----------



## squall343

Gosh..

 now i am choosing between a HD650 and K701

 so which one is the best to suit the dv332?


----------



## Hellenback

Hello Guys, 
 I have been on the fence between a Darkvoice 332 and an Antique Sound Labs MG head MKIII. Has anyone heard both and if so can you make a comparison between the two amps? Even the Darkvoice 336i. I have searched the home amps thread for months and even TBonner's 20 home amps thread doesn't include the Darkvoice. It's hard to know where it stands in the rankings when it isn't even mentioned! Thanks for any help on this.


----------



## Godkin

Squall 343, the HD650s and 332 are the perfect combo - a match made in heaven.


----------



## Skylab

I have the MG Head and the 336i, and they are both excellent, and they have different strengths. The 336i is more romantic, but the MG Head is better detailed and has slightly better bass.

 You can get the best of all worlds if you spring for the Darkvoice 337


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Squall 343, the HD650s and 332 are the perfect combo - a match made in heaven. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ok thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i heard the K701 also complement the darkvoice quite well?

 any comments about that combination?


----------



## Maus

Hi guys,

 I finally decided to post in this thread. I just bought a 332 from jasmine in ebay. I am now lookin for tubes that can boost the bass . I noticed that Mullard's m8100 and SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs have been mentioned several times in this thread. Are these a good choice?
 cheers.

 ps. Do they include any cables to connect it to my DAC?

 cheers


----------



## Barry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i heard the K701 also complement the darkvoice quite well?

 any comments about that combination?_

 

I have that combination. It works, but not exceptionally well, in my opinion. A couple of other guys at the recent Philly meet thought that it worked also, but the combo did not sound nearly as good to my ears as the Sennheiser. That combo did sing and I believe that I see a HD 600 in my future.

 Can't comment on the HD 650. Nobody at the meet had a pair.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i heard the K701 also complement the darkvoice quite well?

 any comments about that combination?_

 

do you like K701 or HD650? y bother with 650 if you don't care for it; who cares if it has awesome synergy with a particular amp??


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Barry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have that combination. It works, but not exceptionally well, in my opinion. A couple of other guys at the recent Philly meet thought that it worked also, but the combo did not sound nearly as good to my ears as the Sennheiser. That combo did sing and I believe that I see a HD 600 in my future.

 Can't comment on the HD 650. Nobody at the meet had a pair._

 

yeah its a hard combo to make them sing. 

 try:
 tubed/warm source, preferably with nice and warm copper IC.


----------



## Kataklystik

I own K701 + DV332 and yesterday a fellow viennese Head-Fi member, rogues08, brought his Arietta + HD580(650 cable, dafoamed, 600 grilles) to my place. I still preferred the K701 for most of my music (Classic rock, hard rock, tango, new tango, lighter thrash metal, black metal) but I really NEED Senns now for thrash metal (only the very fast stuff like Slayer) and death metal. BTW the amps were very similar(still use stock tubes).


----------



## Gradofan2

Yeah... the DV332 with the Svets and Tung Sols totally transform the HD580/600s, and HD650s to simply awesome phones - totally removing any veil.


----------



## Bozz_Keren

@gradofan2
 huh.. you're selling ur DV332i??


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@gradofan2
 huh.. you're selling ur DV332i??_

 

I might... to try the DV337 - although, I must admit, I'm a bit skeptical that it can sound much better than the DV332 with the Senns.

 Some of the comments re: the DV337 in the Raptor thread have made me "a bit restless" to try it.

 Still not sure I want to do it though - it'll depend on what interest it gets.


----------



## Bozz_Keren

well that's great, but for $700 price there's alot of nice tube amps, like MAD Ear+, Singlepower PPX, WA6
 hell i've just confused you more


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well that's great, but for $700 price there's alot of nice tube amps, like MAD Ear+, Singlepower PPX, WA6
 hell i've just confused you more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I realize you're "baiting" me... but...

 You're so right... and... I've given a lot of thought to several of those over the past year... but... my experience with the Darkvoice 332, has convinced me that... no amp in the <$1,000+ price range will sound any better... and likely not as good. 

 I really think... that unless I'm willing to spend $2,000 for an SP Extreme Platinum, or, perhaps, the EC Zana Deau... I'm not going to find an amp... that sounds any better than the DV332, or DV337.

 Just my hunch... but... I think its not highly likely!


----------



## Skylab

Gradofan, if you do buy a 337, make sure to get some good 6SJ7GT or WGT's. The JAN-Phillips NOS tubes that Angela Instruments sells are truly excellent, and are $24.95 a pair.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan, if you do buy a 337, make sure to get some good 6SJ7GT or WGT's. The JAN-Phillips NOS tubes that Angela Instruments sells are truly excellent, and are $24.95 a pair._

 

Great! You're the "flippin' perp" that has motivated me to consider the DV337.

 Thanks for the counsel. 

 By the way... "inquiring minds want to know" - what does the "GT" designate - "Gran Turismo," or what???


----------



## Skylab

LMAO! But the 337 is truly an astounding tube amp, no doubt.

 Also, "GT" refers to the shape of the tube bottle. "W" means ruggedized for use in high vibration applications, etc. "B" refers to an uprated version whose heaters can be connected in series and warms up quicker.


----------



## Godkin

Are DV going to release a SE version of the 332 and 337?


----------



## Bozz_Keren

i hear they're going to release upgraded version early 2008


----------



## mikelanding

I just make an offer to Jamine_chine. Finger cross he/she will accept it..


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikelanding* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just make an offer to Jamine_chine. Finger cross he/she will accept it..



_

 

nice one..you are from vr zone forum right?

 hope you can get your darkvoice soon

 they are really great


----------



## Godkin

Good luck, MikeLanding.


----------



## subfocus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bozz_Keren* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i hear they're going to release upgraded version early 2008_

 

Has anyone else heard anything suggesting an upgraded version of the 332i is going to materialise fairly soon?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *subfocus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone else heard anything suggesting an upgraded version of the 332i is going to materialise fairly soon?_

 

not really..i have been scanning through their chinese forum and i do see any upgraded 332 new

 but i do know they are introducing something that is above the 337


----------



## mikelanding

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not really..i have been scanning through their chinese forum and i do see any upgraded 332 new

 but i do know they are introducing something that is above the 337




_

 

i just have a brief conversation with 1 of the ebay seller. He mentioned that Darkvoice will intro 2 models..1 model is below 336i ( I suspect is Firago) another 1 will be higher than 332 but slightly below 337 ( the picture shown)
 He said Darkvoice side still need to iron out some technical things and make them more robust and he also mention the latest model will be more mature and robust.

 Oh..any1 had spare tubes to sell? I dun have high requirement, just want to get rid of the stock tubes and have some fun with tube rolling..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The Darkvoice will match with HD650.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do drop me a line if U have some...thank a lot..


----------



## subfocus

Hmmm..... Interesting. Thanks for the info guys.


----------



## bOUddha

mikelanding, 

 You have a private message!


----------



## hawkhead

29 October 2007 19:09 London - UNITED KINGDOM Arrived Hub


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_29 October 2007 19:09 London - UNITED KINGDOM Arrived Hub_

 

I'm a day ahead of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 October 28, 2007 20:32 London-Heathrow - UK Arrived at DHL facility in London-Heathrow - UK


----------



## upstateguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not really..i have been scanning through their chinese forum and i do see any upgraded 332 new

 but i do know they are introducing something that is above the 337





_

 

Looks like an RSA design....


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mikelanding* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just have a brief conversation with 1 of the ebay seller. He mentioned that Darkvoice will intro 2 models..1 model is below 336i ( I suspect is Firago) another 1 will be higher than 332 but slightly below 337 ( the picture shown)
 He said Darkvoice side still need to iron out some technical things and make them more robust and he also mention the latest model will be more mature and robust.

 Oh..any1 had spare tubes to sell? I dun have high requirement, just want to get rid of the stock tubes and have some fun with tube rolling..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The Darkvoice will match with HD650.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do drop me a line if U have some...thank a lot.._

 

YPGM at vrzone


----------



## Nuwidol

Just had a DHL guy drop off a nice parcel for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've replaced the stock tubes & i'll leave some impressions later.


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just had a DHL guy drop off a nice parcel for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've replaced the stock tubes & i'll leave some impressions later._

 






 I really really hate you 

 Taps fingers impatiently . . . . .


----------



## Surefoot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,

 I finally decided to post in this thread. I just bought a 332 from jasmine in ebay. I am now lookin for tubes that can boost the bass . I noticed that Mullard's m8100 and SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs have been mentioned several times in this thread. Are these a good choice?
 cheers._

 

Hello Maus,
 The signal tubes (M8100) will bring the most difference to the sound. They'll remove the harshness in the highs coming from the stock tubes, but they will not extend the bass, instead they'll restore it into its true form (consider there is no bass boost). The bass will become very tight and well defined (stock bass is rather blurred and distant), but by no means extended.
 The power tubes can be either from Svetlana or Ulyanovsk, it doesnt seem to make much difference at all. Just get either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ps. Do they include any cables to connect it to my DAC?

 cheers_

 

No the DV332i has no cable at all, you will have to get signal cables and a power outlet cable.


----------



## squall343

Anyone can recommend me what are the tube rolling options??


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surefoot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No the DV332i has no cable at all, you will have to get signal cables and a power outlet cable._

 

I actually got a power cable with mine. A Chinese power cable but hey..


----------



## Maus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Surefoot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 No the DV332i has no cable at all, you will have to get signal cables and a power outlet cable._

 

I have kinda expected that I wont be getting a mini->rca cable, but not even a power cable? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
 Got myself the Mullards yesterday....19 quids... ouch.

 Thanks for the reply


----------



## squall343

They do send me cables but frankly their stock cable must be the one to change .


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone can recommend me what are the tube rolling options??




_

 

If you've got the DV332... and the HD650s... the Svetlana 6S19P-EVs and Tung Sol 6AK5s totally tranform the HD650s, expecially with the RAL CryoSilver cable... again... HARD TO BELIEVE.


----------



## adfinni

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just had a DHL guy drop off a nice parcel for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've replaced the stock tubes & i'll leave some impressions later._

 












 Congrats mate, i know you've been waiting a while for it now. i think il have to pop over to olney and have a listen.

 Im tempted to get some senn 650s once i get a job as they are pretty cheap at 150 ish, then i could bring over and we could have a mini meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 O and did you get yours from ebay, and what were the other tubes like, pricing etc?


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adfinni* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_











 Congrats mate, i know you've been waiting a while for it now. i think il have to pop over to olney and have a listen.

 Im tempted to get some senn 650s once i get a job as they are pretty cheap at 150 ish, then i could bring over and we could have a mini meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 O and did you get yours from ebay, and what were the other tubes like, pricing etc?_

 

Thanks Adam,

 Yeah i got the tubes from eBay as well as the amp. Mullards were about £11 shipped for the pair i think. I got some Ultranovsks as well but i bought a batch of four for the reasonable price of £9.70. All the way from Russia too!
 Get the Senns!!!!!!Get the Senns!!!!!!Get the Senns!!!!!!Get the Senns!!!!!!

 Oh yeah, got my wheel today too. Speed limit here i come!


----------



## Godkin

I'd go with Gradofan and say a great combo is the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs and TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws. Another sublime pairing are the SVETs and the WE403Bs.


----------



## adfinni

Ah ebay, ive had a look on there and i see the mullards come from the UK. Finally some good news for us UK head-fiers.

 Il have to read up on the amp a little more, but the il try and get the senns asap, then hopefully i could try them out on your darkvoice before i purchase one then get into tube rolling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 O and i doubt very much you'll be hitting the speed limit, it is a punto 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope the bill for the rest doesn't set you back too much, as take money away from the audio fund.


----------



## hawkhead

Amazing service from Jasmine - ordered late Friday and arrived today. What do I think - I don't know because I'm going to let it run till tomorrow


----------



## adfinni

AWesome setup there,can't wait to hear your impressions.

 Im particularly interested as i have the HF-1's but hated the RS-2s after hearing them at the UK meet this weekend out of everything there. plus il be getting some senn 650s and probably the cheaper DV.

 O and my dad has that rotel cd player, and i love it and his old skool arcam a60 amp


----------



## derek8555

Finally got my amp today!

 Ordered from 3c-store... ya I know, wrong guy to buy from! So when I got my amp I literally held my breath when opened it up. Glad he gave me what I wanted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 only complain is that the powercord is of Asia type and I had to find my own...

 So now I need some tubes. Looking at eBay there aren't many choices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyone want to sell some spares to me?


----------



## jhawk22

Where are you guys finding tubes if you dont mind me asking. Is there a reliable tube seller online instead of ebay, because the pickins there are rather slim

 I'd like to try the SVETLANA 6S19P-B and TUNG-SOL 6AK5W but cannot locate any. 


 thx in advance


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jhawk22* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where are you guys finding tubes if you dont mind me asking. Is there a reliable tube seller online instead of ebay, because the pickins there are rather slim

 I'd like to try the SVETLANA 6S19P-B and TUNG-SOL 6AK5W but cannot locate any. 


 thx in advance_

 

They are about on ebay - change the search to worldwide

 I've just bought 4 SVET's for £14

 Mind you the only Tung-sol's are silly money


----------



## Maus

is there any difference between SVETLANA 6S19P-B and 6S19P-V ?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Maus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there any difference between SVETLANA 6S19P-B and 6S19P-V ?_

 

They're the same - military grade / ruggedized tubes.


----------



## Gradofan2

I've still got an extra set of Tung Sol 6AK5s... if anyone needs them. 

 They really make the Senns sound their best with the DV332.


----------



## hawkhead

I've had a quick listen running the 8100's and it's






 Will write more on Monday but off for the weekend


----------



## Gradofan2

This always happens...

 I was just checking out my Pinkfloyd modified XCAN v3, before I pack it up and ship it to its new owner.

 And... I now actually think its a bit better than the DV332 driven out of my Underwood Hifi modified Music Hall MMF CD-25 1+ (24/192) through my modified Senn HD580s, or my HD650s. 

 Just a lot more detailed clarity, resolution, and refinement from top to bottom with great organic texture throughout and a bigger more localized soundstage - not as congested. And the bass impact, and attack / decay is better. 

 The DV332 may still have a bit better body, weight and liquidity - not sure - but, at the expense of the above qualities.

 Maybe its the difference between a SS/tube hybrid and an OTL tube amp. Or... perhaps its "seller's remorse" - but it is definitely better.


----------



## Godkin

I couldn't disagree with you more, Gradofan. I've done my own comparisons between the two, and my conclusions were entirely different. But that's hifi for you.

 In stock form, the X-CAN V3 is an okay headphone amp - over-priced for what it is (the component quality is atrocious). Pink Floyd's mods lift it to an entirely new level, but I still prefer the 332. Personally speaking, detail and clarity are better in the 332, with resolution about equal. I agree with you that the X-CAN V3 has greater organic texture. Soundstaging is one of the 332s strong points in my opinion: when I switched directly between the two amps, the 332 had the wider soundstage, and was far from congested. Attack and bass are very good on the X-CAN V3, especially the Pinky modded one, but again I prefer the 332.

 As I said, this is a personal opinion. What good for one is just okay or bad for another.


----------



## minivan

has any1 compare the yamamoto ha-2 with the dv332? i am thinking to buy the dv332, not sure how different they are or which one are better


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I couldn't disagree with you more, Gradofan. I've done my own comparisons between the two, and my conclusions were entirely different. But that's hifi for you.

 As I said, this is a personal opinion. What good for one is just okay or bad for another._

 

I think the difference must either be the specific mods we each had, or the burn in, or a difference between the early models and later models... or... the synergy with the rest of the set up. 

 Also my modified CD-25 at 24/192 provides simply incredible detail, clarity, and soundstaging (using the OPA2134s, rather than the dual channel OPA627s) - that chip also adds great texture, resolution and bass to it. I think my PF XCAN v3 permits all that to shine through, moreso than my DV332.

 Of course... I'm focusing on the clarity, resolution, organic detail, and overall refinement, which enhances the postioning in the soundstage, as well as the natural nature of the sound (e.g. realness of the snares and cymbals, etc.). Those attributes are simply stunning in the setup I describe. 

 Until today... I was focusing more on the power, weight, and tone body of the DV332, which is clearly better than the PF XCANv3. 

 But today... something just seem to come together with that set up. Perhaps it was only "seller's remorse." But... it seemed real. It was so impressive... I can tell you... had I experienced it previously... I would not have sold my PF XCANv3. But... I was focusing on my other DAC's, and the impressive weight, tone and ambience of the DV332, rather than the incredible resolution and refinement of the sound, I finally noticed with my modified CD-25 and the PF XCANv3.


----------



## Godkin

I certainly felt more than a touch of remorse when I sold my X-10 V3 recently. I shall feel it again too when I sell my X-CAN V3 in the near future.


----------



## minivan

i had not heard the x-can v3 neither the dv332. but i had heard the dv336i. from what u guys impression, it sound like the yamamoto has the best of both world


----------



## leng jai

Very keen on one of these amps. Would it be a sunstantial upgrade from the LD 2++? On Jasmine's Ebay page its listed at $395 + shipping, but I see you guys are getting it for around $400 shipped. Is the 2007 model more expensive or something?


----------



## tomjtx

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very keen on one of these amps. Would it be a sunstantial upgrade from the LD 2++? On Jasmine's Ebay page its listed at $395 + shipping, but I see you guys are getting it for around $400 shipped. Is the 2007 model more expensive or something?_

 

Click the "make an offer" button on jasmine's page and negotiate a price.

 Jasmine is great to work with, excellent customer service.

 It is worth noting that she always gets good recs here while other sellers are rarely mentioned, that is why I bought from her


----------



## mikelanding

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Click the "make an offer" button on jasmine's page and negotiate a price.

 Jasmine is great to work with, excellent customer service.

 It is worth noting that she always gets good recs here while other sellers are rarely mentioned, that is why I bought from her_

 

Ya..I used the same "make an offer" method and my unit is getting ready and will be ship out early Next week..


----------



## bOUddha

You should be getting some new tubes by mid-week...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And, LittleDot II++ = Toyota MR2
 while DV 332 = Porsche 911 to Ferrari Testa Rossa, depending on tubes of course.


----------



## leng jai

Thanks guys. I made an offer of $400USD including shipping.


----------



## leng jai

Jasmine made me a counter offer of $410 via Paypal. Seems good to me.

 EDIT: Just pulled the trigger


----------



## Gradofan2

I think one of the reasons I was so impressed with the PF XCAN v3 "in it's final days" were the effects of the OPA2134 in my modded CD25 1+, as well as the X10 v3 Tube Buffer, and the XPSU v3 PSU - they synergies between all of those units with my Senns.

 I just didn't notice it previously, because I hadn't used that combination of components much, since I swapped to the OPA2134s in the CDP - they made a huge improvement over the dual OPA627s, or the OPA2227s. 

 I just tried the X10 v3 with my DV332, and it does add much of the same qualities that my PF XCAN v3 reflected in its final days, when driven by my moddifed CD25 1+... but... with more power, drive, weight, etc. 

 Now... I'm wondering if the Yaqin Tube Buffer would improve the DV332 even more. I realize Godkin uses these together, which is one reason he is so impressed with the DV332, compared to the XCAN v3. And... I realize from prior posts, he prefers the Yaqin Tube Buffer to the X10 v3. 

 But... if I were going to try the Yaqin Tube Buffer with my DV332... which one should I try - the version with the single 6DJ8 / 6922 tube, or the version with the two 6J1 / 6AK5 tubes???

 One vendor says the single tube is the newer and better unit, and another says the dual tube version is the newer and better version.

 So which is better???


----------



## squall343

I was browing through their chinese forum of the darkvoice

 then make a shocking discovery

 the dv 332 go for 2400RMB

 which is 320 USD inclusive shipping(not sure whether it is international shipping)

 and they sell for that price according to the thread

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-51309-1-1.html









 then i look for the shipping invoice for my darkvoice which i brought from the net for 400 USD

 exactly the same place and person

 so i guess the middleman earned 80 USD


----------



## squall343

if anyone is interested

 you can contact the maker directly from his email which is on the link below

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-832-1-1.html


----------



## jonoliew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if anyone is interested

 you can contact the maker directly from his email which is on the link below

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-832-1-1.html




_

 

DO they sell DV in singapore? cause i'm coming home next month. finally.. lol


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonoliew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DO they sell DV in singapore? cause i'm coming home next month. finally.. lol_

 

sadly they do not

 but you can always buy online and ship back to singapore


----------



## jonoliew

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sadly they do not

 but you can always buy online and ship back to singapore




_

 

what's a good site besides ebay? or just take tiger air for a day trip to hk and get dac amp and the lot! lol. sorry. didnt mean to hijack the thread.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonoliew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what's a good site besides ebay? or just take tiger air for a day trip to hk and get dac amp and the lot! lol. sorry. didnt mean to hijack the thread._

 

i got mine from 
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/342802?hl=darkvoice

 410 USD inclusive shipping..

 but he can only do money order, western union

 so need to incur some admin fees etc

 the cheapest i find is buy directly from the factory from the link i provided a few posts above

 320USD


----------



## tomjtx

I suspect that 320 does not include US shipping which would add about 80.00 ,
 so buying from Jasmine only adds 10.00


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tomjtx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suspect that 320 does not include US shipping which would add about 80.00 ,
 so buying from Jasmine only adds 10.00_

 

maybe..but from what i read

 he uses express shipping(international? maybe)

 someone should contact him and ask.

 really cheap deal cause he is the maker

 and you dun go through any middleman

 cause he is the one(from the shipping invoice) that do the shipping

 although i ordered from the middleman


----------



## minivan

2400rmb before shipping dude.
 the thing is heavy , with shipping it go up to 400 usd
 the profit of 80 usd go to the post man
 i think the middle man earn something like less then 10 usd
 i know because i talk to one of the reseller of dv in china before
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *squall343* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was browing through their chinese forum of the darkvoice

 then make a shocking discovery

 the dv 332 go for 2400RMB

 which is 320 USD inclusive shipping(not sure whether it is international shipping)

 and they sell for that price according to the thread

http://www.diybuy.net/thread-51309-1-1.html









 then i look for the shipping invoice for my darkvoice which i brought from the net for 400 USD

 exactly the same place and person

 so i guess the middleman earned 80 USD



_


----------



## 4001c64

jonoliew - I see that you are located in Australia. Im in Melbourne and bought my 240 volt 332 from: 

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/342802?hl=darkvoice

 Cost was US$410 and he accepted paypal no problem for that amount. I had to wait a couple of days for them to fit the 240 transformer but after that delivery was quick and it was well packaged. Ive been very happy with it.


----------



## leng jai

Jasmine told me to get a 220v for Australia. Does it actually matter?


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jasmine told me to get a 220v for Australia. Does it actually matter?_

 

i guess Australia should be 240v

 think it is abit more safer if you get the 240v version

 you would not want your amp to burst into fire right?







 edit 1: should be 240v instead of 140v


----------



## leng jai

Well thats weird. Jasmine told me to get a 240V for Australia so he/shes wrong? I haven't actually paid for it yet, waiting for a white one to be in stock.


----------



## 4001c64

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well thats weird. Jasmine told me to get a 240V for Australia so he/shes wrong? I haven't actually paid for it yet, waiting for a white one to be in stock._

 

The 220v/240v issue has been briefly discussed earlier in this thread - see:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...1&postcount=49
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...1&postcount=50

 If you do go with a 220v transformer and use it here in Australia with 240v supply, you are putting 10% more power into the transformer - which logically must mean that there is more power being provided throughout the circuit, which can only mean more heat and possibly will lead to shortened valve life and could have an effect on the sound -good or bad I dont know.

 Ive not tried the 220v model so cant comment on whether there is any diffrence, but seeing the 332 is available with a 240v transformer then it makes a lot of sense to just get the 240v version for Australia.


----------



## Pimmsley

um... don't want to but in, but I had my DV 332 shipped from China to Australia via tracked ems...by a guy called JianLiu (Authorised supplier), who I confirmed today is still able to offer this service.. He was spot on in every way... Superb service..you can PM me for his email, and I specifically requested the 240V model which is the only version I would run on Aussie power, he arranged it from the supplier.. you have to consider (depending on your location) a swing in Voltage of up to 5%.. I wouldn't recommend running a 220V 332 here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 um.. the other quick thing i wanted to mention is that you guys have a lot to answer for.. I was quite happy with my (gasp) stock tubes, until I happened upon this thread.. I now have RCA's, Mullard's, Chelmers' (rebranded Mullards ???) and WE's plus a set of dirty russians for the tall bottle replacements on the way... please don't suggest any more tubes.. I implore you... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Can anyone with these listed tubes and 990's comment on the match ?

 Would you like to know more ?

 Cans: Beyer Dt-770 PRO (600ohm), DT-990 PRO (250 ohm), Grado SR -80's.. 
 BTW... I have owned listened to and recorded music with the 770's for 15 years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - I really know those suckers...


----------



## Pimmsley

Sorry, one last thing... I have had my DV 332 since July... I have plugged my 770's into many things, but was really stunned (doesn't happen that often) after the 332 was about 20 hrs old on stock tubes..


----------



## jonoliew

ok. i'm like trying to decide now. lol. So how does this 332 fare against the dodge and bada ph12? better? lol. cause i'm trying to find more reviews. going to buy 3 units of the better amp.


----------



## Godkin

I was going to buy the BADA, but was told by the guy at Cattylink that they were having technical problems with the trannys - its a hybrid design. So shifted my attention elsewhere.

 As far as I know, the Dodge is a single-ended design, so plenty of midrange bloom and warmth to the sound. The 332 is more clinical - there is tube character there, especially openess in the midrange, but it is more "in you face", revealing, with great drive and bass extension.


----------



## jonoliew

so how do you think the bada will fare against the 332? and by trannys, you mean transistors?


----------



## Godkin

Transistors, yes. I think the BADA has always had probems in this area. But the problems may now be solved as Cattylink are still selling them.

 I can't directly compare them because I haven't heard the BADA, but from reports it's an excellent amp. The 332 is a simpler piece if kit. With the HD650s and high impedance cans it is superb - some say the best at under $1000.


----------



## leng jai

Bad news. Jasmine emailed be today and said my amp had no sound through one channel so I guess the wait will be a few days longer


----------



## Godkin

Though you must be disappointed, it's good that Jasmine checks them before they leave. It saves you all the extra hassle of shipping it back to her. Hope you get your 332 soon.


----------



## Pimmsley

Where did all the 'Beyer' owning tube rollers go ?


----------



## leng jai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Though you must be disappointed, it's good that Jasmine checks them before they leave. It saves you all the extra hassle of shipping it back to her. Hope you get your 332 soon._

 

Very true. Sending it back would have been a major pain in the ass and 10 times worse than waiting a few days.


----------



## jonoliew

So.. since the bada can't be reliable, how does the 332 then compare to the doge? anyone know? which is better for the k701?


----------



## Godkin

Sorry, can't directly compare, but perhaps the DOGE would be the better partner with the K701s. If I remember right, the DOGE has a impedance selector switch - 60, 300 and 600 ohms. The K701s are around 60 ohms, so perfect combo. 

 The 332 doesn't work at its best with lower impedance cans like GRADOs and K701s. It can sound harsh and rather forced. Now, if you had SENNHEISER HD580s, 600s, 650s or BEYERs DT880s then I'd say GO for the 332. It's simply the BEST with these cans.


----------



## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, can't directly compare, but perhaps the DOGE would be the better partner with the K701s. If I remember right, the DOGE has a impedance selector switch - 60, 300 and 600 ohms. The K701s are around 60 ohms, so perfect combo. 

 The 332 doesn't work at its best with lower impedance cans like GRADOs and K701s. It can sound harsh and rather forced. Now, if you had SENNHEISER HD580s, 600s, 650s or BEYERs DT880s then I'd say GO for the 332. It's simply the BEST with these cans. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't know about Grados, but I think the 332 does a pretty good job driving the K701, and it certainly doesn't sound harsh or forced to me. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the optimal amp for the K701 though.


----------



## musicmind

I'm glad to hear jasmine is doing a good check before they ship the amps out. I'm sure the delay will be worth it


----------



## jellojoe

Anybody try the DV 332 with Ultrasones?


----------



## dhammavijaya

I've had the 332 for a few weeks now and what has most amazed me is how good it is as a pre-amplifier. Sound through my speakers now has a lovely liquidity. The only drawback is a low hum that you hear between songs. Can anyone recommend a tube combination that will overcome this?


----------



## Godkin

If you like that "liquidity" to your sound, the best choices would be something like the SVETLANA 6S19Ps with the MULLARD EF95s or the better spec M8100s and CV4010s. The TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws are also a great sounding tube as are the RAYTHEON CK5654s.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhammavijaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had the 332 for a few weeks now and what has most amazed me is how good it is as a pre-amplifier. Sound through my speakers now has a lovely liquidity. The only drawback is a low hum that you hear between songs. Can anyone recommend a tube combination that will overcome this?_

 

Try using a 2 prong plug adapter on either your amp, or CDP/DAC, instead of the 3 prong plug - I'll bet your "low hum" will disappear.


----------



## dhammavijaya

I have Ulyanovsks and Mullards, but I don't really understand the post about 2 or 3 prongs. Is that a US thing? I'm in the UK.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhammavijaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've had the 332 for a few weeks now and what has most amazed me is how good it is as a pre-amplifier. Sound through my speakers now has a lovely liquidity. The only drawback is a low hum that you hear between songs. Can anyone recommend a tube combination that will overcome this?_

 

How did you get the pre-amp signal out?


----------



## dhammavijaya

Through the RCA pre-amp out sockets.


----------



## dhammavijaya

Through the out sockets?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhammavijaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have Ulyanovsks and Mullards, but I don't really understand the post about 2 or 3 prongs. Is that a US thing? I'm in the UK._

 

Yes... I didn't notice you were in the UK, before I responded.

 Not sure how you would eliminate a "ground loop." Perhaps Godkin will know.


----------



## bOUddha

I've had my DV332 for about five months, and have tried and enjoyed almost every tube combination before settling on WE 403-As outboard of a pair of Svetlana 6S19 Ps. Pure sonic bliss every night for two months, then I noticed a pair of Ericsson 403Bs/5591s on eBay with no bids. I had these tubes on hand for three or four days before deciding to give'em a try one night. A slight hum for about ninety minutes, but OMG.

 My search is over.

 Lots of tubes gave me great tone, some gave that AND good staging/presence...but NOTHING did what these Swedes are doing. They even removed 90% of the Senn _veil_!

 If you ever lay eyes on another pair, snatch'em quick. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Nuwidol

I can't seem to get rid of a really annoying buzzing noise in my 332. It never dies down & its very annoying. Happens with ALL tubes Any ideas?


----------



## Skylab

That sounds like a grounding issue. Have you tried a cheater plug to lift the ground?


----------



## Nuwidol

I've got a ground loop isolator in the mix, but before i got that it was still buzzing but with an insane amount of humming too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That sounds like a grounding issue. Have you tried a cheater plug to lift the ground?_


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmm...that isn't good then...


----------



## number1sixerfan

What is the sound signature of this amp, say in comparison to a ppx3? I like a open, wide soundstaged, and detailed sound...


----------



## laxx

Wow this thread is huge since the last time I checked it (I think there were only 20 something pages). I'm glad to see so many new people trying this amp out.

 dhammavijaya, I'm very surprised you're liking the preamp out. When I tried it, I didn't think anything in the world could sound worse. =T


----------



## mikelanding

Ya. Tried the pre-amp out on my friend system. Sound worse than his diy pre-amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 but as headphone amp it perform very well.


----------



## dhammavijaya

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow this thread is huge since the last time I checked it (I think there were only 20 something pages). I'm glad to see so many new people trying this amp out.

 dhammavijaya, I'm very surprised you're liking the preamp out. When I tried it, I didn't think anything in the world could sound worse. =T_

 

Probably depends what power amp and speakers you're using.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Can anyone compare this amp to the ppx3 slam in terms of airiness and soundstage?

 Thanks


----------



## Kataklystik

I want to order some M8100 but I want to know if they have to be matched. Does this improve the sound in any way?

 Edit: Just ordered some Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V from Russia!


----------



## shellylh

x2

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone compare this amp to the ppx3 slam in terms of airiness and soundstage?

 Thanks_


----------



## omegaman

Just put a offer in to Jasmine, Fingers crossed. I've gotta get myself one my 650s deserve it !!!!


----------



## Godkin

Tube matching is not crucial for a headphone amp. I've bought tubes that were bought unmatched and everything was fine.

 Good to see another 332 owner, Omegaman. Jasmine is an utterly trustworthy seller, and a pleasure to do business with. And, yes, threat yourself to the HD650s - they're the perfect match for the 332.

 Here's some more pics I found of the DV workshop in Chengdu:


----------



## Skylab

Cool pics!


----------



## Kataklystik

I found a supplier for M8100 tubes that only charges 1,67$/tube extra for matching. Don't know if this is important but the other tubes I've ordered (Ulyanovsk 6C19P-V) aren't matched.
 If they are unmatched will one channel be louder than the other or what is this matching thing about, please someone clear this up for me. 
 Sorry to ask dumb questions but I'm a tube-noob


----------



## Godkin

Don't worry. They will be alright. I've ordered about 30 6S19P-Bs, both ULYANOVSKs and SVETLANAs, and they have been perfect: dead quiet and both channels sounding the same.


----------



## leng jai

So tube rolling. Any recommendations for someone who is already satisfied with the stock setup?


----------



## justinian

Hi Guys,

 first of all, I really want to thank you all for your support 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This is my first posting in a forum at all, but I nearly completely studied the 90 pages about the DV332, before I decided to buy one from casque hifi on ebay. Since US-Dollar is cheap, I decided to buy one from a seller that allows dollar payment.

 I immediately received my DV 332 today (Friday, bought it Monday!!!) I am really impressed by the sound from the very first moment on. No humming at all (Even with Chinese OEM tubes). Stage is wider, instruments are more colourful than with the Vincent KHV-1. Although, as many times described in here, treble is a bit harsh and it sounds new (what wonder). We’ll see how it’s going to improve, I’ll let it run a hole week through.

 My first compliment of replacement tubes is ready to be fitted in (Svetlanas). The Ulyanovsk and Mullard tubes are on the way from Moscow and Sussex (Thank you Godkin). 

 One thing I’ve wondered about all the time is that I found no comment about the combination of the DV332 and Sony’s –in my view- famous MDR-CD3000. Are they uncommon outside Germany? Since I have experienced merely over 30 different cans, they are my personal favourites over many years. (BTW I still use Sennheiser HD 600, Beyer DT 880 and Philips HP1000) They won every single comparison hands down (For example: K501, HD590, DT 770 and so on). 

 Later on, I will write a short summary about the HD 600 and CD3000 used with the DV332.

 Greets from Germany


----------



## Godkin

Welcome along, Justinian. Always good to have a new 332 owner. The 332 is a peach of an amp, isn't it? A beauty I never get tired of listening too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to see you've got a number of better tubes on the way - including the excellent M8100s and SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs. I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the different cans and their synergies with the 332. Personally, I've only tried the HD650s and HD580s, and both were superb.

 On tube rolling, Leng Jai, it all depends what kind of sound you want. If you like a lush and warmish sound then something like the MULLARD EF95s or M8100s are perfect with the SVETLANA 6S19Ps or PBs. If you like your sound a little more lean and incisive then the WESTERN ELECTRIC 403Bs, alongside the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs would really hit the spot. As I say, all depends on what sound you're after.


----------



## emericanchaos

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome along, Justinian. Always good to have a new 332 owner. The 332 is a peach of an amp, isn't it? A beauty I never get tired of listening too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Good to see you've got a number of better tubes on the way - including the excellent M8100s and SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs. I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the different cans and their synergies with the 332. Personally, I've only tried the HD650s and HD580s, and both were superb.

 On tube rolling, Leng Jai, it all depends what kind of sound you want. If you like a lush and warmish sound then something like the MULLARD EF95s or M8100s are perfect with the SVETLANA 6S19Ps or PBs. If you like your sound a little more lean and incisive then the WESTERN ELECTRIC 403Bs, alongside the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs would really hit the spot. As I say, all depends on what sound you're after._

 

my situation is that i have a wounded tube. one of my 8100's is creating a fizz in the channel. it was originally on the right. after flipping teh tubes around it is now in the left. 

 i listen to more rock and acoustic stuff as well as female vocalists and classical.

 what do you think would be a good combo for me?


----------



## omegaman

The deal is done Jasmine is sending me one now !!!!!!! A christmas present to myself. Thanks Omegaman


----------



## Godkin

I listen to a good deal of classical and accoustic - mainly female vocalists like Suzanne Vega and Eddie Reader. No one combo of tubes sounds bad, but I do have my favourite: the WE 403Bs and the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs.

 Good on you, Omegaman. Prepare to be amazed.


----------



## omegaman

I know this amp will great for my hd650's but what about my Grado 225's. Is it really bad synergy, or just not as great as the 650s.?


----------



## fntms

Has someone used the DV 332 with ATH-900 headphones? I'm asking because I find those cans quite lacking in the bass section and I'd also like to replace my Little Dot 2 - I've just a/b 'd it with the discrete head amp on my zhaolu and it sounds very dull...but the discrete has some hum unless I turn it way up (and then I get hiss...)
 Thanks!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this amp will great for my hd650's but what about my Grado 225's. Is it really bad synergy, or just not as great as the 650s.?_

 

Its not bad with Grados... just not as good as with Senns. Grados sound a bit rough with it at some frequencies - not as smooth as the Senns sound with it.


----------



## mikelanding

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listen to a good deal of classical and accoustic - mainly female vocalists like Suzanne Vega and Eddie Reader. No one combo of tubes sounds bad, but I do have my favourite: the WE 403Bs and the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs.

 Good on you, Omegaman. Prepare to be amazed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am using same combo of tube as U: WE 403Bs and the SVETLANA 6S19P with HD650...like it so much. Now searching for LM Erricson 403B as a forumer said is more superior.
 I did encounter a rather weired phenomena, I alway notice there is a hizz ( more like light _tic tic tic_ sound from the DV. After much investigation, I found is my modem+router that causing the interference!!! When I put my palm in between DV and modem, no hizz. Hizz sound appear when I remove my palm.
 As temporary solution, I stickin an anti-static plastic (those used in HDD wrapping) to my modem...lol.. no hizz anymore.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its not bad with Grados... just not as good as with Senns. Grados sound a bit rough with it at some frequencies - not as smooth as the Senns sound with it._

 

I don't quite agree with that; My HF1 is just as smooth as the K701, which is just as smooth as the HD650. HF1 is between 701 and 650 on the warmth scale and bass weight/slam driven by the 332

 I source either from Saturn or SD TP.


----------



## Kataklystik

I just got my Ulyanovsk 6C19P-B from Russia. I put them in and they're already glowing but one of the 2 tubes is a bit loose in the socket. Has the tube to stick very firmly in the socket or doesn't it matter?

 Edit: They sound fine so far and there's no humming whatsoever so I think everything should be fine.


----------



## Godkin

It's a feature of the 332 I'm afraid: bad quality tube sockets, especially for the larger tubes, which mean that the tubes themselves are loose. Both my 6S19P-Bs are loose and they work just fine.


----------



## justinian

Godkin;3479459 said:
			
		

> Welcome along, Justinian. Always good to have a new 332 owner. The 332 is a peach of an amp, isn't it? A beauty I never get tired of listening too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Godkin

The M8100s will be a definate improvement over the stock 6J1s. MULLARD tubes have a characteristic sound: very lush and euphonic with plenty of body, open and detailed, with a deep, solid bass.

 You're right to get a better power cord - the 332 responds really well to that.


----------



## shellylh

Well, I was going to wait until the new year and get a Darkvoice 337 but I ended up ordering a GS-1 so I decided I better go with the DV 332 to keep my budget under control. Also, I was a little hesitant to send $700 to a ``random person'' in China... Right now I have a MF X-can v3 with upgraded PS and tubes that I will probably sell (assuming I like the DV 332 better). Although, after ordering, I saw that gradofan decided he/she liked the upgraded X-can better so now I am wondering if I should have ordered the 332 at all... sigh. 

 I won some tubes on ebay (a pair of Ulyanovsk 6C19P-V and a pair of Siemens 6AK5W with black plates). Hopefully these will make for a nice upgrade to the amp. 

 Unfortunately, the amp is not shipping until tomorrow (Dec 14) and I am going out of town at the end of the week for the holidays. I hope it shows up before I leave. I ordered the amp through Jasmine. For the USAers, how long did it take you to get your amp once it shipped (I live in Houston, TX). Did you have to sign for it? What company was it sent through?


----------



## Godkin

I have a 332 and a fully modded X-CAN V3, and the 332 (with the right tubes) betters it in every respect. Both are very good amps, but, to my ears, the 332 has more power, more attack and drive, and more openess. This of course depends on what cans you have: with the HD650s the 332 is superb, the X-CAN V3 very good; with Grados the 332 isn't at its best, while the X-CAN V3 is still very good.

 I can't speak for Gradofan, but his statement about the X-CAN V3 bettering the 332 was later revised, and the superiority of the X-CAN put down to the effects of an X-10 V3 tube buffer.

 Delivery to the States should, in theory, be quicker from China. I recently ordered a DV FIGARO, and to the UK it took four days. It shouldn't take any longer than that, and, hopefully, should take less. You will have to sign for the package.


----------



## hawkhead

Time for me to chime in on the thread WRT Grado's

 I have a pair of semi vintage RS-1's and was initially amazed at the 332. However as other have noted it can sound harsh, though I found this certain recordings only. 

 Examples of this include Guns and Roses - Appetite for Destruction and Frampton Comes Alive 25th Anniversary edition. These were uncomfortable 

 Tube rolling helped and the Tung Sol 6AK5 was the best at taming the harshness but unfortunately a bit bass shy

 However 2 days ago the Ericsson w403's arrived and a heavenly plateau has been reached - the harshness tamed but none of the drive and energy lost. (all these with the Svetlana's)

 This amp is way ahead of the Arietta and the Graham Slee Solo Green(which was a poor second to the Arietta)


----------



## shellylh

I mostly use 650s and Darth Beyers right now. I also have a bunch of other cans that I will try out with the DV332. It's too bad that it will probably arrive just when I am leaving for the holidays. By the way, I read in the 337 thread about some tubes arcing in the 337 and damaging the drivers of a K701. Has anyone had trouble with tubes failing and damaging their precious headphones?

 Has anyone tried Darth Beyers with the 332 (or at least Beyer 770/80s)? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a 332 and a fully modded X-CAN V3, and the 332 (with the right tubes) betters it in every respect. Both are very good amps, but, to my ears, the 332 has more power, more attack and drive, and more openess. This of course depends on what cans you have: with the HD650s the 332 is superb, the X-CAN V3 very good; with Grados the 332 isn't at its best, while the X-CAN V3 is still very good.

 I can't speak for Gradofan, but his statement about the X-CAN V3 bettering the 332 was later revised, and the superiority of the X-CAN put down to the effects of an X-10 V3 tube buffer.

 Delivery to the States should, in theory, be quicker from China. I recently ordered a DV FIGARO, and to the UK it took four days. It shouldn't take any longer than that, and, hopefully, should take less. You will have to sign for the package._


----------



## Gradofan2

You will be very pleased with the DV332 - it reflects all the qualities Godkin describes. And in many respects it does seem superior to the PF XCAN v3 that I had. 

 The one instance in which I thought the PF XCAN v3 was at least equal, if not better - was with 1 or 2 specific recordings, with which it seemed to provide amazing refinement, detail and soundstage. That might have been the effects of the X10 v3 Tube Buffer with my overall set up - or, it could have been "seller's remorse" - whatever. 

 And the PF XCAN v3 did seem to drive my Grados a bit better... though... the DV332 was far superior with my HD650's. And the Grados do sound good with most recordings with the DV332... though... they sound a bit rough with a few selected recordings, which emphasize highs.

 If I was forced to choose between the two amps... I would still choose the DV332, because of the qualities Godkin describes. 

 And... I find the Tung Sols with the Svetlanas to be superb... with outstanding bass (extended and tight with impact and power), as well as other great SQs, which I like better than the Mullards, or RCAs (haven't tried the WE 403As).


----------



## shellylh

Any problems with tubes arcing in the 332? 

 As I said, I read in the 337 thread that someone had a problem with a tube arcing in the 337 and damaging his headphones. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3434402-post166.html

 Should I be worried about this with the stock tubes and/or with other tubes in the 332? If so, should I start up the amp without headphones plugged in?


----------



## Gradofan2

I've not seen any posts about DV332 tubes arcing.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

I have a few pairs of NOS Uly 6S19P-V/B for sell in the FS forums, see sig.


----------



## Godkin

As Gradofan says, no problems reported in this thread about tubes arching with the 332.


----------



## bOUddha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... 

 Tube rolling helped and the Tung Sol 6AK5 was the best at taming the harshness but unfortunately a bit bass shy

 However 2 days ago the Ericsson w403's arrived and a heavenly plateau has been reached - the harshness tamed but none of the drive and energy lost. (all these with the Svetlanas)..._

 

I don't know what it is about the Ericssons that mates so perfectly with the Svetlanas in this amp, but I know I was gutpunched when I tried them. LOTS of 6AK5s and 403Bs sound wonderful in this amp thru the HD650s, but the Swedes do something to the overall tone and especially the soundstage that simply can't be described adequately (not by me, in any case). In addition, they do something to the recorded human voice that no other system I've ever had does as well. Listen to Calabria Foti with this system on and try to convince yourself your not sitting across the table from her!

 I'm glad I found a spare set.


----------



## Godkin

Thanks for that, Bouuddha and Hawkhead. I haven't tried the ERICCSON 403s, but have experimented with the WE403Bs: one of the very best in my opinion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I must try and get myself a pair.


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know what it is about the Ericssons that mates so perfectly with the Svetlanas in this amp, but I know I was gutpunched when I tried them. LOTS of 6AK5s and 403Bs sound wonderful in this amp thru the HD650s, but the Swedes do something to the overall tone and especially the soundstage that simply can't be described adequately (not by me, in any case). In addition, they do something to the recorded human voice that no other system I've ever had does as well. Listen to Calabria Foti with this system on and try to convince yourself your not sitting across the table from her!

 I'm glad I found a spare set.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

where can I get some ERICSSON 403 

*if anyone got a pair of Ericsson 403 they can let go please pm me. THX*


----------



## bOUddha

chesebert-

 I stumbled on an eBay auction listing them about a month ago. There's a listing for a singleton with a Buy-it-now of $6.00, I think. I gave $9.95 for my pair(s).

 I didn't realize Ericsson even made tubes!

 Godkin-

 The Ericssons sound more like the WE403Bs than anything else, but with the added soundstage and presence. The Western Electrics are certainly no slouches in either regard, so the Swedes came as a serendipitous bonus to what was an already astounding system. I'm awestruck every night as I put the 650's on and flip that switch. Just last night I noticed some acoustic guitar work in addition to Page's electric axe on a Led Zeppelin number that was apparently too subtle and delicate for most systems to pick up on...I'd certainly never heard it before.


----------



## nor_spoon

Have a couple of Ericsson 6AK5's on their way from Sweden.

 Looking forward to compare them to my Mullard M8100's.

 Not many left of those Ericsson tubes it seems. I was lucky getting a pair off ebay...


----------



## hawkhead

Silly me - should have kept quiet and snapped them all up :]


----------



## Ted Goldie

I now finally have a 332DV. I have ordered some Russian tubes and the Swedish 403B's. A new power cord is ordered. My cables are being built and the sound of this amp improves by the second. This hobby is more addictive than drugs. The sound even with the stock tubes is great. I also have a little P1 IBrasso. The sound is good but this sound is so much different. To those who do not have a tube amp yet you need to get one. I am an old fart and I loved records years ago, until nothing was available in records anymore. The CD sound that replaced records was accurate but lacked what a good needle and turnable could produce. This turned me off music enough that I listened less. Well this amp even with a cheap CD source produces the sound like I used to listen to with my old but very expensive turntable. I am finding the solid state amps produce very accurate and crisp sound, but the tube amp colors the music in such a way that it sounds warmer and richer. Thanks for all those that have led me down this path of purchasing the Darkvoice. This thread was very helpful. Oh yeah now I am broke, but happier.


----------



## Von Soundcard

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any problems with tubes arcing in the 332? 

 As I said, I read in the 337 thread that someone had a problem with a tube arcing in the 337 and damaging his headphones. 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3434402-post166.html

 Should I be worried about this with the stock tubes and/or with other tubes in the 332? If so, should I start up the amp without headphones plugged in?_

 

Isn't tube arching caused primarily by the tube or does amp layout play an important role too ? In an OTL design I would plug in the headphones a few seconds after power-up, especially with new or aging tubes.


----------



## omegaman

My 332 arrived last night, 5 days from Jasmine in China. Great to deal with and open for negotiation.

 I can't belive I waited this long for a home amp. Loving it already even before the tubes warm up never mind the amp burning in.

 My amp even arrived before my interconnects that I ordered from England two weeks ago !!!!! So I am only listening to it through some 99c leads I found in the back of a cupboard an it already sound amazing with only stock tubes.

 I am going to leave it playing for a few days solid, ( with a cheeky listen now and again )

 Already I am loving the detail of the amp. Its worth buying one just to look at the tubes in the dark.

 More impressions later.


----------



## Godkin

Glad you guys are loving your 332s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And the good thing is, it only gets better.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Von Soundcard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't tube arching caused primarily by the tube or does amp layout play an important role too ? In an OTL design I would plug in the headphones a few seconds after power-up, especially with new or aging tubes._

 

Indeed, the design of the 337 has nothing to do with arcing tubes. The tube was bad, and arced - would have done this in any amp. This is why owning a tube tester is a good idea. But blaming the 337 is wrong.


----------



## shellylh

If I cannot afford to go out and buy a tube tester (aren't they pretty expensive???), what can I do to try to minimize risk when trying new tubes? Startup amp without headphones plugged in? Would it be worth it to startup the amp and warm it up with some cheap throwaway headphones and then once everything is going ok, unplug the cheap hps and quickly plug in the real headphones? This question is probably very naive but I have not owned any real tube amps before (only X-can, a hybrid) and want to do it right. I know one should not keep the amp running without any hps plugged into it. 

 Isn't there a chance that the tubes will arc after using them repeatedly (not just the first time you try them). Should one test them everytime you use them or just the first time. I assume that there will be warning signs if a tubes is going bad like some buzzing, correct? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Kataklystik

Today one of the little tubes (still stock) started to hum. I let it cool down removed it, cleaned it a bit, put it back in and turned the amp back on. Everything is normal again..
 Hmm maybe I should get some M8100 soon.


----------



## Godkin

If you're really worried about it, you could buy your tubes tested and matched. You may have to pay a little more, but it would give you peace of mind. But with all the tubes I've bought and tried, none have arched and only one was faulty - totally dead. 

 Personally, I leave my HD650s plugged in all the time: any potential danger would come with plugging you headphones in while the amp is on.


----------



## rhythmdevils

I just got a DV 332! Beautiful amp. 

 But does anyone else find it to have a bit of an edge to it? It seems to have incredible punch and force behind notes, very dynamic. But the edges of notes sound sharp to me. Definitley not shrill, and its not harsh. But it is not entirely rich either. 

 I think I read Superpredator say something similar, but not sure if it was him. Has anyone else experienced this?

 ps. ive been using WE's, Mullards, a whole slew of both input and output tubes that came with my amp. i think the only ones i haven't tried are the RCA's...

 EDIT: Using grados I just went from the 332 w/mullards to my supermicro, and the supermicro sounds more "tubey"! lol. Of course, with my 600 ohm AKG's, the supermicro cant stand up next to the DV. it just keeps falling over


----------



## Gradofan2

It will mellow a bit with burn in - too early to make judgments.

 Though... it is not as "tubey" as other tube amps are... and... it really complements "warm" phones like the Senns. But... it does sound pretty good with ATHs and Grados after its burnt in... and... with the right CDP/DAC and cables.


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It will mellow a bit with burn in_

 






 it is fully burnt in, as i got it from a fellow head-fier. tubes are also fully burnt in...

 My akg's are also pretty warm phones, and the sharpness really bothers me. It is hard to describe. Most of the note is rich, but really punchy, like there is an army of super ants living inside the 332 pushing behind every note. It sounds amazingly powerful. 

 But then the edges of the notes have a sharpness, like they are tipped up on the sides. (sorry if this doesnt make any sense, i dont really know how to describe these things)

 I hear it with the grados too. But I think it may be an issue of synergy. Im sure the amp wasn't voiced with these akg's. I bet it sounds great with the 650's.


----------



## Gradofan2

Oh... well then... what you hear may be its true sound with your set up.

 It does have a somewhat "sharp" sound with my Grados and ATHs - both fairly low impedence phones. I'm thinking... it may be best with high impedence phones - it is great with the Senns... likely, because of the qualities you describe.


----------



## rhythmdevils

well my akg's are 600 ohms 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So i think it might have more to do with synergy then impedance. my akg's aren't nearly as dull as sennheisers and don't really need the "facelift"


----------



## Kataklystik

I think that I know what you are talking about rhythmdevils. 
 I experience this sharpness on some music with my K701 but I don't think it's unpleasant and most of the time I like it (for example every guitar note in a solo sounds very powerful and accurate). 
 The sound is much smoother with Sennheisers but I think both AKGs and Senns sound good with this amp.


----------



## justinian

Hi,

 wanted to let you now about the tremendous sound improvement that came with the M8100s. I´ve completely re-discovered my music collection (600+ new CD´s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) From the very first moment on there was so much more soundstage and I could hear more detail in every edge of it. Impressing. Even with Discs I thought I completely knew for years, I discovered there was additional information for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Merry X-Mas


----------



## Godkin

The M8100s are excellent tubes: they are a better quality EF95, and a commerical version of a British military valve - the CV4010. I was certainly impressed with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So much better than the stock 6J1s. Good thing is they last for ages - about 10,000 hrs.


----------



## Kataklystik

Finally ordered some M8100 too. 40USD incl shipping to Austria for four tested and matched tubes isn't very expensive I think. From what I saw at eBay most sellers want considerably more.


----------



## Godkin

A very good deal indeed, Kataklystik.


----------



## Kataklystik

I hope that they really work. They have to be better than my chinese tubes. One of them started to hum once and I feared that it would stop working so I ordered the M8100. 
 I'm glad I got a good deal because as a student I'm always on a tight budget.
 BTW I won't keep 2 pairs, I will give a pair of these and a pair of the Ulyanovsk to a friend of mine which is getting a DV332+HD650 combination for Christmas.


----------



## Godkin

The M8100s are certainly a step up from the stock 6J1s. The stock tubes are horrible - they don't sound great and they are unreliable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The M8100s were the first tubes I tried in my 332, and I noticed the improvement right away: naturally and beautifully open, lush and detailed, with much more solid (though not necessarliy deeper) and articulate bass. 

 You are in for a treat, as is your friend with the 332 - HD650 combo.


----------



## shellylh

My DV332 arrived today, it shipped last Friday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Jasmine was very helpful in the whole process. Unfortunately, I left for the holidays just hours before it arrived so I will have to wait 8 days before I can try it out!!!


----------



## cstan

i just put in my order today with jasmine for a 332 - this is my
 first real headphone amp, i'm really looking forward to it - i've
 used the headphone out of a m-audio audiophile USB for about
 a year with my HD650's, i'm confident there will be a big
 jump in quality.

 I'll probably stick with the stock tubes for a month or
 so to get used to the sound before experimenting - this
 thread has alot of great suggestions for tubes.

 hopefully the DA in my m-audio won't be shown out now
 to be too crappy...

 -carl


----------



## Godkin

With the HD650s, the 332 simply excells. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Prepared to be amazed.


----------



## dhammavijaya

I just changed from Ulyanovsks to Svetlanas and am disappointed. Sounds thicker and less detailed. Do tubes improve with burn in, or am I best to stick with the Ulyanovsks?


----------



## bOUddha

What driver tubes are you running?


----------



## dhammavijaya

Mullards


----------



## Godkin

Burn in is absolutely crucial: at least 50hrs. Having said that, the SVETLANAs have a different sound signature than the ULYANOVSKs. The SVETs are more valve-like with tons of ambience and atmosphere. The ULYs are more SS sounding, detailed with great separation. Maybe you just prefer to ULYANOVSK sound. I'm running the SVETLANAs at the moment and they sound great.


----------



## Danika k

Hi! I just noticed that the DV332 uses the same tubes as my Little Dot amps, that's way cool.

 I'm just wondering if you guys have found good sources for your tube rolling needs? I'm new to this hobby and the only place I've gotten upgrade tubes to roll is from this ebay store (eBay Seller: yen1233: Home Audio, Consumer Electronics items on eBay.com). I messaged the seller about Svetlanas but the seller said he didn't have any in stock right now, where do you guys get those?


----------



## Godkin

I get my tubes from E-Bay. Great value and the postage rates aren't too heavy. I've tried other internet stores but the postage rates, both from the US and Europe, were prohibitively expensive.

 The SVETLANA tubes seem to be in short supply at the moment, especially the 6S19P-Bs. Conversely, there're plenty of the ULYANOVSK versions of the same tube.


----------



## Kataklystik

I got the Ulyanovsk 6S19P-B from gordelux04 at Ebay and I'm very pleased with my purchase, I got 4 tubes for about 15€ (incl. shipping).


----------



## Godkin

Merry Christmas Everyone!!!


----------



## Robgo

Merry belated x-mas to you Godkin. Happy New Year. Happy Hogmanay! 



 So is it generally accepted that hd 650s have the best synergy with this amp? It's not too muffled or bass heavy with this combination? 

 I ditched my DT 880s. Didn't even try them with the 332 because I figure they'd be awful anyways. Now I'm not sure which headphones to purchase next. I liked my HD280s and side by side I preferred them to the DT-880s so I think the HD-650s might be the best way to go. I just sold my hi-fi receiver (bah who needs speakers) so I can afford something a little more expensive than what I could before. I could afford a DAC if I could somehow sell these Axiom M3tis as well. 


 So what are the best tubes to try out for this amp? I'm completely new to all of this.


----------



## Robgo

bought some russian tubes

 What are some other equivalents to the tubes that this can use? Seems like there are a lot of different variations with diff names


----------



## Ted Goldie

I have taken most of your advice and put a better power cord (Virtual Dynamics Base model) and new tubes into the 332. The sound has really improved with the Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Ericsson 403Bs. The box said the 403B's were from General Electric of Canada, but Ericsson tubes are made in Sweden I think. Oh well they must have brought them into Canada at some time. The 403B's made the biggest difference in sound for the sound became so clear and dynamic when combined with the Ulyanovsk's. The singers voices are so clear and the base has really tightened up as well. I was lucky to get the Ericsson tubes when I did because the sources seem to have dried up. Read the whole forum and you will find some great tube combinations.


----------



## Godkin

With the large, power rectifing tubes you are basically limited to two brands of the 6S19P tubes: the SVETLANAs and the ULYANOVSKs. Try to get your hands on the P-Bs versions as they are better quality types.

 With the smaller, signal tubes the worlds you oyster. There is the Soviet version of the 6J1 - the 6J1P-EBs made by VOSHKOD. Western equivalents are easy to come by. The MULLARD EF95s are a good place to start, but also try the superior M8100s and CV4010s. US tubes to try are the RCA 6AK5W, TUNGSOL 6AK5W, RAYTHEON 6AK5W or CK5654 and the excellent WE403B. 

 Experiment with tubes and find the sound that suits you. The MULLARDs offer a warmer, more euphonic sound. The 403Bs are at the opposite end of the spectrum, with a wonderfully clear and open sound. Look on E-Bay at the moment and there are some great European tubes, from Siemens, Valvo, and Brimar.


----------



## shellylh

Just got back from my holidays travels and found a DV box waiting for me! I just starting listening to the DV 332 (stock) with some HD580s and it sounds good but I haven't really listened long enough to say much. One thing I can say is that this thing runs really HOT, jeez! I will probably roll the tubes (and maybe change the power cord) tomorrow to see what difference that will make (Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Siemens 6AK5W with black plates).


----------



## shellylh

OK, put in the new tubes... humming in the right channel. Guess I'll have to let it run for a while before I can listen to it.


----------



## nor_spoon

My experience is that the sockets on my DV332 is sensitive to how the tube sits in it (do NOT try to move the tube with the power on and when wearing your headphones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Also, many of my new tubes have hummed until they get some playing time...


----------



## shellylh

Yeah, the tube sockets feel very loose. I'll let it run for a while with these tubes and see how it goes (perhaps I should have just changed one set at a time... that way I would be able to tell which sets of tubes was humming... oh well).


----------



## Gradofan2

You can always... gently and carefully... spread the tube pins a bit - which will tighten the fit of the tubes in the sockets. It does wonders to eliminate noise in tubes - it's worked for me successfully. But... if the tube has a weakness in the glass... it may break the glass around the pin... if you're not careful. Sometimes I use needle nose pliers to reduce the preasure on the glass - just bending the tips out a bit.


----------



## shellylh

I've been letting the DV332 run for about about 10hours (listening for about 3 hours). Most of the humming has gone away. I still think I hear a slight hum in the left channel when there is no music playing but it is very subtle. With music playing, I cannot hear it at all. The amp sounds great with the 650s. The new tubes sound MUCH better than the stock tubes. The stock tubes sounded a little syrupy to me. I think the stock tubes ran a little hotter but maybe that was just my imagination. I can't wait to get some time (probably won't be for a while unfortunately) to compare it to the X-Can. I think I will try it out with some other headphones tomorrow. 

 By the way, how would you suggest comparing different headphones with this amp or any tube amp? Should I only switch different headphones when the amp is off (meaning I would probably only listen to one a day) or should I use a y-adaptor?

 I unplug and plug in headphones to the X-can when it is running with no problems (but maybe I shouldn't?) although it is only a hybrid amp and MF encourages you to leave the X-Can on all the time (although I don't).


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I still think I hear a slight hum in the left channel when there is no music playing but it is very subtle. With music playing, I cannot hear it at all._

 

I have excactly the same problem with a couple of my Ericsson 6AK5 tubes. They are also microphonic. 

 The Mullard M8100's are all quiet.


----------



## Kataklystik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mullard M8100's are all quiet._

 

I got my M8100 today and they are quiet too. I got them from here and if you want some they have some NOS 1960s M8100 at the moment. The ones I got are newer but I also payed only half the price.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you buy the supposedly SVETLANA valves from Anthony Welch? He regularly sells SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs which are in fact ULYANOVSKs. For some reason, there seems to be a shortage of the SVETs. 

 He also sells 6AK5Ws when they are Soviet 6J1P-EVs. The guy is either ignorant of what the tubes actually are, or he is misleading people.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for the info, I was about to order some 6AK5's from Anthony Welch too, I guess I'll look for it elsewhere.


----------



## shellylh

With the stock tubes, the amp had no hum so I am sure it is one of the sets of tubes. I'll try to give the 6AK5W's some more time. I have some WE 403B's on the way, I'll try them out and see how they work out. Thanks for the link on the Mullards!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info, I was about to order some 6AK5's from Anthony Welch too, I guess I'll look for it elsewhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That's the reason I didn't buy from him - his pictures didn't match his description. Although... he said his tubes were Svets and the EV version, I was suspicious that they weren't, because of this disparity. 

 It's possible that he just uses "generic" pictures to cover several tubes - and that he actually has the tubes you want. On the other hand... he may just be relying on uniformed buyers to sell what he has - reasoning they won't care about the difference. In either case - I refused to accept that risk.

 So... I shopped the Russian tube vendors, until I found them (emailed them to find out if they had them), and then bought them from those vendors.


----------



## shellylh

Just got some WE 403B's in the mail, rolled them in the DV332 and they sound fantastic (even without any burn-in). I think I definitely prefer them to the 6AK5W's. Also, no hum at all. Too bad I can't find any Ericcsons.


----------



## Godkin

The WE403Bs are superb - my personal favourite. Nothing can touch their clarity, though the bass is lighter than some.


----------



## nor_spoon

Lighter bass seems like the thing for me. A pair of WE403B's is on their way.

 I think the Ericsson 403B's got rid of more veil compared to the Mullard M8100, but unfortunately they are useless because the pair I got hummed...

 Looking forward to try the WE403B's


----------



## bOUddha

nor spoon-

 How long did you let the Ericssons burn in? Mine hummed for a few hours, taking several hours to disappear completely.


----------



## Godkin

I agree with you, Nor Spoon, when I first fitted the 403Bs it was as if a veil had been lifted off the music, even with the RCA 6AK5Ws. Great tubes, and, as you say, the lighter bass is an attraction to me too.


----------



## Ted Goldie

I followed bouddha's advice and got the Ericsson 403B's and they hummed for about a day and then they stopped. They sound fantastic. Enough base for me and they are really clear teamed up with the Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V's. I cannot speak to the Svetlana 6S19P-V's because I have not found any yet. If anyone out there wants to trade some Ulyanovsk's for some Svetlana's pm me and we can trade straight across. Thanks.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ted Goldie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I followed bouddha's advice and got the Ericsson 403B's and they hummed for about a day and then they stopped. They sound fantastic. Enough base for me and they are really clear teamed up with the Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V's. I cannot speak to the Svetlana 6S19P-V's because I have not found any yet. If anyone out there wants to trade some Ulyanovsk's for some Svetlana's pm me and we can trade straight across. Thanks._

 

Ok, I might leave them in a bit longer than I have. Mine are also very microphonic, not that it matters when playing.
 If I tap on the 332 chassie I hear it well. Not like that with the Mullards.

 Ted Goldie: Are your Ericsson tubes microphonic too?


----------



## Robgo

I've bought the following tubes. Probably made some mistakes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Aw well. I guess I will have to learn from my impatience

 6J1P Generic Russian Tubes. No mention of who produced them but they were cheap

 pic here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._05/6J1P_4.jpg


 NOS EF95 CV850 Mullard Tubes in a blue box. 

 Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V 



 I figure I probably wasted money on the mullards and the generic russian tubes. I was going to try RCA or Sylvania ones but wasn't sure where to start. Couldn't find the M8100 Mullards that were mentioned on here so I figure I probably lucked out and got the worst ones I could get. 

 Don't have my DV 332 yet so I can't comment how they sound.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fetalgoat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've bought the following tubes. Probably made some mistakes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Aw well. I guess I will have to learn from my impatience

 6J1P Generic Russian Tubes. No mention of who produced them but they were cheap

 pic here http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6..._05/6J1P_4.jpg


 NOS EF95 CV850 Mullard Tubes in a blue box. 

 Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V 



 I figure I probably wasted money on the mullards and the generic russian tubes. I was going to try RCA or Sylvania ones but wasn't sure where to start. Couldn't find the M8100 Mullards that were mentioned on here so I figure I probably lucked out and got the worst ones I could get. 

 Don't have my DV 332 yet so I can't comment how they sound._

 

Actually,if I am not mistaken, both the Mullard and the Ulyanovsk tubes are excellent choices, as I recall from earlier posts.


----------



## Godkin

No mistakes, Fetalgoat. And some good choices there. 

 The Russian tubes were made by the VOSKHOD factory in 1973: it is the direct equivalent of the Chinese 6J1, but better built and more reliable. Haven't tried the basic 6J1P, but experimented with the "ruggedised" 6J1P-EV, and they were very good: very crisp and neutral, lots of detail and good bass.

 The MULLARD EF95 is a very good little tube. Typical MULLARD house sound: warmish, lush, rich, open and detailed. The M8100 or CV4010 are special quality versions of the EF95, with black plates and longer life spans (about 10,000hrs). All the above carry European tube designations. Try also some US made tubes, like SYLVANIA, RAYTHEON, AMPEREX and RCA. Look for the 6AK5, or the better quality 6AK5W; the 5654, 5654W and 5654SQ. Another great tube, one of the very best in fact, is the WESTERN ELECTRIC 403A and the special quality 403B. The Swedish company ERICSSON also make a 403B - well worth a try if you can get your hands on a pair.

 The ULYANOVSK made 6S19P-B is a cracker tube: built like a tank and sounds excellent. Again, not much tube warmth, but crisp and detailed, with great separation. The SVETLANA 6S19P/6S19P-B is another great choice: sounds different from the ULYANOVSKs, more organic and valve-like.


----------



## Ted Goldie

Nor Spoon I checked my Ericsson 403Bs and they are not microphonic at all. The box said they were from General Electric of Canada, but inside the tubes say Ericsson of Sweden. They do not glow very much but I read somewhere they are a lower power tube. That is why I think they do not glow very much.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ted Goldie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nor Spoon I checked my Ericsson 403Bs and they are not microphonic at all. The box said they were from General Electric of Canada, but inside the tubes say Ericsson of Sweden. They do not glow very much but I read somewhere they are a lower power tube. That is why I think they do not glow very much._

 

I think Ericsson made those tubes for GE in the 50's or so.

 Fortunately, I have another pair of Ericsson and WE 403B's on their way. Hopefully they will be better.


----------



## Danika k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the Ulyanovsk 6S19P-B from gordelux04 at Ebay and I'm very pleased with my purchase, I got 4 tubes for about 15€ (incl. shipping)._

 

I got mine from this seller (Items for Sale by yen1233) and they're great. He seems to carry some interesting 6AK5's too.


----------



## nghiasays

I just picked up the 332 from rhythmdevils and think its added quite a bit to the bottom end on the k701 compared to the Corda HA-2. Overall the K701 sounds more full. Can't say I can tell much difference with the W5000.


----------



## omegaman

I am loving my 332, Had it a few weeks now and it sounds great. It only has the stock tubes in so I was wondering how much better it sounds with better tubes.

 I have read most of this thread and was thinking of trying some 403's with some 6S19P-B's. What will this bring to the set up ? I am using mainly my HD650's.

 Second thing has anyone got any they want to part with and would ship to Spain or recommend a good place that ships internationally.

 Is it worth paying extra for matched pairs ?


----------



## bOUddha

Quote:


 so I was wondering how much better it sounds with better tubes. 
 

You probably wouldn't believe the difference!

  Quote:


 thinking of trying some 403's with some 6S19P-B's. 
 

I can set you up with some NOS Ulyanovsks 6S19P-Bs and WE 403-Bs for $32 + shipping, or substitute some Svetlanas for $40 +.


----------



## shellylh

I've been doing a lot of listening to my (closed) Darth Beyers with the DV 332 (403Bs and Uly 6S19P-Bs) and X-Can (6H23N-EBs and Little Pinkie V3i PS) this weekend. I have been mostly been listening to Radiohead, Tori Amos, PJ Harvey, Esthero and some Ministry of Sound "chillout" albums. Although with the Senns, I think the DV really shines, I prefer the Darth Beyers with the X-Can. I can't really describe why but it seems to me to that the DBs have better synergy with the X-Can: there is better better drum impact and airyness (sp?) with the X-Can to name a few things. Of course this is just my opinion. Also, I don't mean to say the DBs sound bad with the DV 332, just not as good as with the X-Can. Anyone else have a similiar experience?


----------



## Svirre

Has anyone here tried the DV 332 with a Benchmark DAC1 as a source? Preferably with the HD 650 as headphones?


----------



## Robgo

no but I'm now considering getting a dac. just encountered my first em interference today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Shame because I just purchased a few opamps to try out. I get a faint buzzing noise when I scroll the mouse. 


 BTW why does the Benchmark DAC1 have to cost $1000? Aren't there other inexpensive alternatives? My thought would be that for the best audio quality, you would want to keep the source as simple as possible. Using a very complex dac + tube amp seems like a convoluted process that would only be detrimental to sound quality. Aren't there any inexpensive dacs that can simple pass through sound to to amp completely uncolored as to prevent electronic interference?


----------



## Godkin

If I was to buy a new DAC, I would seriously consider the XINDAK DAC-5 and an NOS DAC from MHDT LABS, perhaps the PARADISA +.


----------



## shellylh

As for a DAC: I would highly recommend a Stello DA100! 

:: Headphone/Preamp & USB-DAC :: HiFi500 :: info@hifi500.com ::

April Music

 In reviews, the DA100 seems to come close to the DAC1 with the DAC1 being more analytical and the DA100 being more musical. I have never heard the DAC1 but absolutely love the DA100. The DA100 has USB and optical/coaxial input but no balanced output.


----------



## Svirre

The thing is I already have a DAC1 that works amazingly in my stereo-setup, so I am trying to find a way to incorporate that into a good headphone setup as well. I realize the sound might be a bit analytical, but since I really enjoy the DAC1 in my stereo I think I will take the chance. The DV663 and the HD 650 seems like such a great combo and it’s exactly in my price range! Worst case scenario I can always send the DV663 back, or perhaps sell it.


----------



## Robgo

Changing out the stock tubes with Mullard EF95's made a huge difference. I was beginning to become dissatisfied with the sound, felt it lacked impact and was a bit shrill at the high end. I'd even removed the amp and connected my 650's directly to the soundcard and almost preferred it that way. I removed the Chinese tubes, one of which seemed to have had corroded connectors and there is a huge difference in sound now. After I'd noticed the corroded connector I plugged it into the opposite pot and noticed it affected the sound. The clarity in the left side of the headphones was highly reduced this way. It must have been that way all along and I hadn't noticed until now. 

 Replacing the larger tubes, the 6S19's, made less of a difference but the bass seems to have more clarity to it now. 

 One thing I notice though is that there seems to be a somewhat deep and warm hum with the Mullard tubes. It's very quiet so it's a bit difficult to notice. Heh, I'm having a difficult time writing this because I'm a bit awestruck by the sound I'm hearing now. Took a moments pause before this line because I was so impressed. I wonder how much of a change my new opamps will make.


----------



## Danika k

Has anyone tried the GE 5 Star EF95's? I found some from this seller on ebay. Also has anyone tried the 6S19 from him?


----------



## Godkin

Generally, GE 5 Star tubes have a very good reputation. How they sound in the 332 I don't know but they would be better than the stock 6J1s. They're rather expensive though.


----------



## Danika k

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Generally, GE 5 Star tubes have a very good reputation. How they sound in the 332 I don't know but they would be better than the stock 6J1s. They're rather expensive though._

 

Are these a good buy for a matched pair of GE 5 Star? I usually see them go for like $40 to $50 for a matched pair.


----------



## shellylh

When I first starting using the 403Bs, I was hearing any type of hum which was a nice change from the slight humming I was hearing through the GE 6AK5Ws. Well, after a couple of days, I noticed a slight humming (that would start only after the tubes were warm). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I loved the sound of the 403Bs so much, I didn't want to try another pair (and I am too impatient to wait them out). I decided to put those ugly black covers back on the tubes. I haven't had the hum since then. Unfortunately, there is no pretty glow. By the way, don't touch the black covers (heat sinks or whatever they are), they get hot! I think it does keep the amp a little cooler too. I guess the connections in the DV 332 are not so hot and this helps out of bit with that problem. my 2 cents...

 Oh, I forgot to say: I just got a pair of K701s on Monday and have been burning in since then (around 75 hours). I just tried them with the DV332 and they sound really amazing together. Can't wait til the 701s and DV332 are both fully burnt in!


----------



## Gradofan2

It's been my experience that a lot of tube hum is the result of the pins not fitting in the sockets tightly. The metal caps likely seat the tubes more securely in the sockets - eliminating the hum. You can also spread the pins a bit to create a tighter fit in the sockets - which often eliminates the hum - its worked for me before.


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's been my experience that a lot of tube hum is the result of the pins not fitting in the sockets tightly. The metal caps likely seat the tubes more securely in the sockets - eliminating the hum. You can also spread the pins a bit to create a tighter fit in the sockets - which often eliminates the hum - its worked for me before._

 

That what my thought exactly. Maybe I'll try (very carefully) spreading out the pins at some point so I can remove the metal caps and have the glow back sans hum!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That what my thought exactly. Maybe I'll try (very carefully) spreading out the pins at some point so I can remove the metal caps and have the glow back sans hum!_

 

Yeah... very carefully. I've broken the glass before. Sometimes I've used needle nose pliars to relieve some of the pressure from the base of the pin against the glass - just spreading the tips.


----------



## PrTv

I have some question regarding grounding the amp.
 Does grounding it improve its sonic quality?

 Now sockets in the room where I use this amp aren't ground socket, and when I plug in a power cord, I can detect some electricity through the ground pin (using voltage detector). I know it's always better to ground the amp, but it may involve some wiring and drilling, which I'm too lazy to do right now.

 Does anyone experience any noticeable improvement after grounding?


----------



## Robgo

I noticed that some of the tubes I used in the Darkvoice 332 would hum very loudly but when I used the same tubes in a tube buffer there was no hum at all. Very strange.


----------



## Gurra1980

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fetalgoat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 My thought would be that for the best audio quality, you would want to keep the source as simple as possible. Using a very complex dac + tube amp seems like a convoluted process that would only be detrimental to sound quality. Aren't there any inexpensive dacs that can simple pass through sound to to amp completely uncolored as to prevent electronic interference?_

 

What do you mean with this? The DAC1 takes the digital and converts it to analog the whole meaning with the DAC1 is to give as uncolored sound as possible, there is what I now not any other DACs that measure much or any better than DAC1.


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fetalgoat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I noticed that some of the tubes I used in the Darkvoice 332 would hum very loudly but when I used the same tubes in a tube buffer there was no hum at all. Very strange._

 

I am guessing that the connections are not so good. I got rid hum by using the ``black metal tube sleeves'' that came with the DV332 (gave a better connection). That seems to be the biggest problem with the DV 332s (and 337s).


----------



## Gradofan2

I have had absolutely no hum, or noise, of any kind with my DV332. Though... I have with other tube amps. I found that spreading the tube pins to improve the contact eliminated the hum. I would guess the metal tube covers of the DV332 improve the tube pin contact with the sockets.

 You might also check for "ground loop" hum by using non-grounded, 2 prong plug adapters and possibly reversing the plug in the outlet - you'll need to check this with all the components in the signal path. I'm sure there are other techniques for eliminating it... but... that's worked for me.


----------



## nghiasays

I don't get hum unless I turn the volume up past what my ears can take when listening to music on the K701. I get some hum with the dial turned all the way down on the W5000 though but only on the right side. I just put my excess cable in a loop too so the combo of amp turned all the way down and loop was feeding some FM into the headhpone. It was a local rock station so at least the combo knows how to pick good music.


----------



## omegaman

Finally got around to getting some new tubes. WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!

 They are not even warm yet and the Svetlana 6S19P-B's teamed with the western electric 403b's sounds fantastic.

 I was impressed with the 332 before but it has moved up another gear. a lot more clarity and instrument separation.

 I've also got some western electric 403A's to try later.


----------



## Godkin

The SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs and WE403Bs are my favourite combo in the 332 so far. Superb clarity allied to a touch of tube liquidity.

 I'm running a pair of RAYTHEON CK5654s at the moment. They sound very much like a MULLARD tube, but lack the crispness of the 403B. I think the RAYTHEON may compliment better a ULYANOVSK 6S19P-B.


----------



## hawkhead

Is there a way to identify the Svet's from the Uly's ?


----------



## bOUddha

A large blue or black "C" in a circle with some horizontal lines outside signifyings wings will be on the Svets...this is NOT a pic of the 6S19P-Bs.

 Godkin, you really need to get some Ericsson 403Bs.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some lessons learned from my experience noted above...

 1. Do Not Buy from "3c-store" on eBay - no matter what a few others have experienced - they do not honor their warranty / guarantee!

 2. Do Not Rely on PayPal to honor their "Buyer Protection Plan," or to assist in resolving such matters - they won't!

 3. Do Not Rely on eBay to honor their "Buyer Protection Plan," or to assist in resolving such matters - they won't!

 4. DO NOT PAY THE VENDOR VIA SEPARATE PAYPAL INVOICE HE MAY SEND YOU - DO MAKE ALL SUCH PAYMENTS VIA THE PAYPAL LINK PROVIDED ON THE EBAY PAGE CONFIRMING YOUR PURCHASE - TO OBTAIN PAYPAL'S "BUYER PROTECTION PLAN" COVERAGE (although I'm sure they've got "a number of other clauses" in their agreement that will preclude coverage).

 5. DO MAKE ALL SUCH PURCHASES WITH A MASTERCARD OR VISA ACCOUNT WHICH GUARANTEES BUYER SATISFACTION, AND PROTECTS AGAINST FRAUD, AND WILL REFUND YOUR MONEY - THEY WILL!!!

 6. DO NOT TAKE COMFORT IN GOOD FEEDBACK FOR 3C-STORE EITHER ON EBAY, OR HEADFI - YOU ARE STILL VULNERABLE!

 In fact... it's probably better to just avoid international purchases from small, unknown vendors altogether... if you wan't to avoid the difficulties of resolving such issues.

 3c-Store sent me the 240 volt version of the amp, despite confirming it was the 110 volt version - and then would not pay the $80 shipping cost for me to return the amp for replacement with a 110 volt version. 

 They did the same thing to a member in the UK, but that member saw my post before he received his amp, and refused to accept his shipment from 3c-Store - thereby avoiding these issues with this vendor. I assume he will eventually receive the correct amp, or a refund... but, you can't be sure with this vendor.

 I asked PayPal to resolve the matter, or refund my money, via their so-called "Buyer Protection Plan." They promptly informed me that I "had no protection" from their so-called "Buyer Protection Plan." They made clear... that "small print on page 27 of their agreement" explains that the buyer is only protected... IF... they click on the link on the eBay site to PayPal and pay via that link. 

 3c-Store, very cleverly directs its buyers to pay only via a separate invoice they will send to the buyer - which excludes the buyer from receiving PayPal's "Buyer Protection Plan." 

 I asked eBay to resolve the matter, or refund my money - and they informed me they provide no protection to buyers... that is provided only by PayPal. The most they would do is provide me links to various consumer fraud sites to report the vendor.

 On the other hand... Mastercard... does have an effective process for resolving such matters... and will refund the buyer's money... if the buyer provides the documentation supporting their claim - in this case a fraudulent merchant. Fortunately, I had "reems" of supporting emails - and they have refunded my money, and presumably have charged back 3c-Store.

 The only issue remaining is... I still have an amp, which is really 3c-Store's amp... but, for which they refuse to send me the money to pay for the return shipment. No problem... I'm enjoying it... until they do!

 "Caveat Emptor!"_

 

An update for those who may recall...

 As I reported previously:

 1. Mastercard did refund my money and charged-back PayPal... and I presume the Seller - 3c-Store.

 2. After literally months of "debate and communications" with PayPal... they finally "got it"... and authorized/honored the refund of my money and charge-back by Mastercard. But... I'm sure they only did so... because Mastercard was firm in their position, supporting me. I never found a PayPal CS Rep that understood the law (UCC) on such matters... or who was at all interested in learning the law, or honoring it. 

 3. 3c-Store has never responded to the Mastercard refund to me and charge-back to PayPal. I presume PayPal charged-back 3c-Store... but... its very possible they didn't... and "just ate" the loss.

 So... since 3c-Store has never responded... I've got a "free amp" (240 volt), despite the fact that it was not the one I ordered / purchased from them (110 volt). Although... the aggravation and time spent obtaining my refund... was indeed a "high-price" to pay!

 My advice stands... (see quote above).


----------



## Godkin

Well done, Gradofan. Don't let the bast**ds grind you down!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On your advice, I didn't buy my DV FIGARO from 3C-Store. They seemed to be pre-production models too, with cosmetic defects present. Thanks for saving me from all that potential hassle.

 As Bouddha points out the logos on the two tubes are different. The SVETs have the distinct black circle, while the ULYs have a white arrow pointing up the tube.


 Yes, I will have to get my hands on a pair of those elusive ERICSSON 403Bs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Soon hopefully, soon.


----------



## shellylh

Thanks for the warning! Yikes, what a mess!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_An update for those who may recall...

 As I reported previously:

 1. Mastercard did refund my money and charged-back PayPal... and I presume the Seller - 3c-Store.

 2. After literally months of "debate and communications" with PayPal... they finally "got it"... and authorized/honored the refund of my money and charge-back by Mastercard. But... I'm sure they only did so... because Mastercard was firm in their position, supporting me. I never found a PayPal CS Rep that understood the law (UCC) on such matters... or who was at all interested in learning the law, or honoring it. 

 3. 3c-Store has never responded to the Mastercard refund to me and charge-back to PayPal. I presume PayPal charged-back 3c-Store... but... its very possible they didn't... and "just ate" the loss.

 So... since 3c-Store has never responded... I've got a "free amp" (240 volt), despite the fact that it was not the one I ordered / purchased from them (110 volt). Although... the aggravation and time spent obtaining my refund... was indeed a "high-price" to pay!

 My advice stands... (see quote above)._


----------



## Svirre

I recently ordered a 332, and in my enthusiasm I ordered a bunch of tubes as well. I now realise I probably should of double checked that they will actually work with the 332 first, but oh well...

 Anyway, I would greatly appreciate if someone could confirm that these tubes will actually work:

 - LM Ericsson 403B - pair NOS , NIB
 - 6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV Tubes. Set of 4
 - 6S19P-V Audiophile Tubes

 They didn't exactly cost me much, but it would be nice to know that I at least can use them, hehe.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Svirre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently ordered a 332, and in my enthusiasm I ordered a bunch of tubes as well. I now realise I probably should of double checked that they will actually work with the 332 first, but oh well...

 Anyway, I would greatly appreciate if someone could confirm that these tubes will actually work:

 - LM Ericsson 403B - pair NOS , NIB
 - 6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV Tubes. Set of 4
 - 6S19P-V Audiophile Tubes

 They didn't exactly cost me much, but it would be nice to know that I at least can use them, hehe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Should be fine.


----------



## Svirre

Ok, that's good news. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems the western electric 403B tubes has gotten much praise in this thread. Anyone know how they compare to the Ericsson 403B?

 Many also mention the 6S19P-B tubes. What's the difference to the 6S19P-V tubes?


----------



## shellylh

Yes, they will definitely work! I greatly preferred the 403Bs over the 6AK5Ws, I would suggest you try those first.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Svirre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently ordered a 332, and in my enthusiasm I ordered a bunch of tubes as well. I now realise I probably should of double checked that they will actually work with the 332 first, but oh well...

 Anyway, I would greatly appreciate if someone could confirm that these tubes will actually work:

 - LM Ericsson 403B - pair NOS , NIB
 - 6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV Tubes. Set of 4
 - 6S19P-V Audiophile Tubes

 They didn't exactly cost me much, but it would be nice to know that I at least can use them, hehe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Robgo

What differences are there with the GE and LM tubes over the 8100 Mullards? 

 The difference I noticed between the Mullard EF95's and the M8100's is that the M8100's are more crisp, sound less glassy (particularly noticeable with cymbal hits.) but the low end doesn't seem as strong as with the regular EF95s. 

 I have some generic Russian tubes, 6j1 equivs and they sound super glassy, low end seems nice though. They hum like crazy through my darkvoice with even the spring tube holders in place. 

 It would be nice to find some driver tubes that offer warm detailed and crisp/non-glassy highs and a good amount of bass as well. 


 I'd like warmth separation and detail. That's what I would like to accomplish with opamp replacements and tubes though I haven't been able to find a combination I particularly like yet. I'm a bit picky I suppose.


----------



## Godkin

The "P-B" and "P-V" suffixes are exactly the the same: the first is the Russian cryllic, the second the English translation.


----------



## davve

Hi!

 I'm wondering how the 332 compares to the 336i are there any improvments over the 336i?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi!

 I'm wondering how the 332 compares to the 336i are there any improvments over the 336i?_

 

Your answer is buried in this thread - do a seach on 336i in this thread.

 As I recall... those that have heard both reported that the DV332 is better than the DV336i with the HD650s - though, as I recall, the DV336i has a more "tubey," less "precise" sound. The DV332 reportedly sounds a lot like the DV337 - though, I must admit, I'm not sure I understand why it would - since the tubes are different.

 So... I suppose it really depends on the sound you prefer - the more precise, powerful sound of the DV332, or the warmer, more "tubey" sound of the DV336i.


----------



## dhammavijaya

Anyone tried 403b tubes from the companies 'national' and 'international'?


----------



## Ted Goldie

The difference I find between the LM's and the Mullard 8100's is the Mullards have a little more base and the LM's make the vocals stand out more. I find the voices with the LM's to be unbelievable. The 8100's are nice but for my taste unless I really want the base to stand out I prefer the LM's. I hope that helps fetalgoat.


----------



## niccon

I got myself 332 about 1 month back but my recent addition of benchmark dac1 makes it sounds slight too hash/bright for listening with DT770 (W1k, still not too bad). Before I decide to get Yaqin tube buffer or EE BBA or change to Monarchy M24 dac. I wonder is there a possibility to smoothen out the hash by tube rolling.

 From what I gathered by reading this entire thread, it seems that Svetlana 6s19P-B/V with Mullard M8100 combo should able to achieve my objective of getting a warm, lush, better sound stage, improve bass while still retaining the detail from dac1.

 Kindly advise if I have drawn the correct conclusion or recommend a better combo for my required parameters.

 TIA


----------



## Gradofan2

You might try those to see if that will do it... but... the DV332 is a fairly bright, clear, detailed amp - which is why its so great with Senns. The DAC1 is also - so you may have a bit of difficulty taming the combination enough to suit your preferences. 

 And... I doubt a tube buffer will do it either. The Yaqin 2 tube (6J1) version, less likely than the Yaqin 1 tube (6DJ8/6922) version, which has a better selection of tubes (offered by Pacific Valve). The EE MM BBA is a pretty expensive tube buffer / impedence matcher just to warm the sound a bit. You'd have over $1200 invested in your amp/buffer combo - which will buy a fairly nice amp. If you're going to keep your DAC1, you may want to just upgrade your amp to one that might provide a warmer sound - perhaps a SP. Or... you might try one that allows you to switch back and forth between OTL and TC modes (e.g. ASL, or Cayin, etc.). This might be the way to go... if you're wanting to retain all the detail of the DAC1. The M24 provides lots of detail, but its likely a bit less than the DAC1 - though its more musical.

 You might also try the Senns (modded HD580/600), or another DAC. The M24 provides a warmer, more liquid, organic sound - which is also a bit bright. But, you can tame it, if need be, with warmer tubes than the JAN Philips 6922s. 

 The NM24 (2007/8 version with black faceplate) has both tube and SS DACs, uses the 96/24 PCM1704 chip, and is a bit brighter than the M24 (2006/7 version with silver faceplate). Some prefer the older M24 with the PCM63 chip to the NM24. 



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *niccon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got myself 332 about 1 month back but my recent addition of benchmark dac1 makes it sounds slight too hash/bright for listening with DT770 (W1k, still not too bad). Before I decide to get Yaqin tube buffer or EE BBA or change to Monarchy M24 dac. I wonder is there a possibility to smoothen out the hash by tube rolling.

 From what I gathered by reading this entire thread, it seems that Svetlana 6s19P-B/V with Mullard M8100 combo should able to achieve my objective of getting a warm, lush, better sound stage, improve bass while still retaining the detail from dac1.

 Kindly advise if I have drawn the correct conclusion or recommend a better combo for my required parameters.

 TIA_


----------



## niccon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might try those to see if that will do it... but... the DV332 is a fairly bright, clear, detailed amp - which is why its so great with Senns. The DAC1 is also - so you may have a bit of difficulty taming the combination enough to suit your preferences. 

 And... I doubt a tube buffer will do it either. The Yaqin 2 tube (6J1) version, less likely than the Yaqin 1 tube (6DJ8/6922), which has a better selection of tubes (offered by Pacific Valve). The EE MM BBA is a pretty expensive tube buffer / impedence matcher just to warm the sound a bit. You'd have over $1200 invested in your amp/buffer combo - which will buy a fairly nice amp. 

 You might also try the Senns (modded HD580/600), or another DAC. The M24 provides a warmer, more liquid, organic sound - which is also a bit bright. But, you can tame it, if need be, with other tubes. 

 The NM24 (2007/8 version with black faceplate) has both tube and SS DACs, upsamples to 192 (I think), and is a bit brighter than the M24 (2006/7 version with silver faceplate). Some prefer the older M24 with the PCM63 chip to the NM24._

 

Thanks. I dont use open headphone and dont like Senns. If that is the case, I may need to scout for a different amp or dac


----------



## shellylh

How long have you had the DT770? IMO they have a slightly harsh high end for a while. You may try burning them in before you try anything else. Also, if you get the DT770s "Darthed" (see Headphile, headphone tweaks and modding, woodies, interconnects, Grado, Sennheiser, AKG, Beyer, woody and more...) that will also smooth things out. I have never listened to the DAC1 so I cannot really comment on that.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *niccon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got myself 332 about 1 month back but my recent addition of benchmark dac1 makes it sounds slight too hash/bright for listening with DT770 (W1k, still not too bad). Before I decide to get Yaqin tube buffer or EE BBA or change to Monarchy M24 dac. I wonder is there a possibility to smoothen out the hash by tube rolling.

 From what I gathered by reading this entire thread, it seems that Svetlana 6s19P-B/V with Mullard M8100 combo should able to achieve my objective of getting a warm, lush, better sound stage, improve bass while still retaining the detail from dac1.

 Kindly advise if I have drawn the correct conclusion or recommend a better combo for my required parameters.

 TIA_


----------



## Godkin

I have the YAQIN 6J1 tube buffer and while it does soften the sound, I don't think it would cure your problem totally. Even with the HD650s with a bad source or recording, the 332 can sound a tad bright. Improving the tubes can help diminish this considerably, especially with something like the MULLARD EF95s and SVETLANA 6S19Ps. With the right set up the 332 is great.

 As Gradofan says, the CAYIN may be a better amp with your set up. Or maybe the DOGE would be another suggestion - it's single-ended and has an impedance selector switch.


----------



## Gradofan2

I ran a test to see what would warm the sound of my SS CD25 CDP with my Senns. 

 Here's the results:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/gre...-senns-295105/

 Now my modified CD25 is likely warmer than your DAC1, but not a lot. 

 What I found was that for driving the Senns single ended... the best sound may well be using a SS source (like your DAC1) to a tube buffer, to a tube line stage pre-amp, to a tube amp, to your Senns. Or... you might get good tube amp, which might warm it up enough... especially with a tube buffer.

 I was very surprised that the resulting sound... may actually be just as good, if not a bit better than the M24 Tube DAC. There may be a bit more clarity and detail, yet warmed by the various tubed equipment pieces. 

 Regardless... you will still have quite an investment in equipment, if you add a tube buffer, a tube line stage pre-amp, and a tube amp to your DAC1 - but it does work.


----------



## niccon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long have you had the DT770? IMO they have a slightly harsh high end for a while. You may try burning them in before you try anything else. Also, if you get the DT770s "Darthed" (see Headphile, headphone tweaks and modding, woodies, interconnects, Grado, Sennheiser, AKG, Beyer, woody and more...) that will also smooth things out. I have never listened to the DAC1 so I cannot really comment on that._

 

About 100hrs. I will continue to run-in DT. How long before the sound will become decent? Guess I will also try on the tube rolling. As such dac1 & dv amp will remain.

 Btw will the digital cable (transport & dac) have any impact on the sound? I am using a budget acrolink coaxial cable which contain silver.

 Thanks.


----------



## niccon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the YAQIN 6J1 tube buffer and while it does soften the sound, I don't think it would cure your problem totally. Even with the HD650s with a bad source or recording, the 332 can sound a tad bright. Improving the tubes can help diminish this considerably, especially with something like the MULLARD EF95s and SVETLANA 6S19Ps. With the right set up the 332 is great.

 As Gradofan says, the CAYIN may be a better amp with your set up. Or maybe the DOGE would be another suggestion - it's single-ended and has an impedance selector switch._

 

Do you have any experience on EE BBA? Wonder if Yaqin is the same thing, if it is then Yaqin will be my next economical option.


----------



## niccon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ran a test to see what would warm the sound of my SS CD25 CDP with my Senns. 

 Here's the results:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/gre...-senns-295105/

 Now my modified CD25 is likely warmer than your DAC1, but not a lot. 

 What I found was that for driving the Senns single ended... the best sound may well be using a SS source (like your DAC1) to a tube buffer, to a tube line stage pre-amp, to a tube amp, to your Senns. Or... you might get good tube amp, which might warm it up enough... especially with a tube buffer.

 I was very surprised that the resulting sound... may actually be just as good, if not a bit better than the M24 Tube DAC. There may be a bit more clarity and detail, yet warmed by the various tubed equipment pieces. 

 Regardless... you will still have quite an investment in equipment, if you add a tube buffer, a tube line stage pre-amp, and a tube amp to your DAC1 - but it does work._

 

Is there any difference if you connect the tube buffer after the source and after the dac? Which will provide a better warmness? 

 In fact my concern on spending is not only for the tube buffer, pre-amp and tube amp but also the single driver speaker which I intend buy later. I hope to get a correct hp-amp, buffer, dac combo which will able to run both headphone and speaker without harshness.


----------



## shellylh

Interesting. I have been interested in putting the MF X-10 between my Stello DA100 and DV332 but haven't done it yet. I wonder what improvements if any I would hear? In any case, can you tell me what function the line stage plays? Or, more generally, what is a line stage? Isn't using the M24 Tube DAC/Tube Line Stage for just the line stage a bit of a waste? Sorry for my ignorance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ran a test to see what would warm the sound of my SS CD25 CDP with my Senns. 

 Here's the results:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/gre...-senns-295105/

 Now my modified CD25 is likely warmer than your DAC1, but not a lot. 

 What I found was that for driving the Senns single ended... the best sound may well be using a SS source (like your DAC1) to a tube buffer, to a tube line stage pre-amp, to a tube amp, to your Senns. Or... you might get good tube amp, which might warm it up enough... especially with a tube buffer.

 I was very surprised that the resulting sound... may actually be just as good, if not a bit better than the M24 Tube DAC. There may be a bit more clarity and detail, yet warmed by the various tubed equipment pieces. 

 Regardless... you will still have quite an investment in equipment, if you add a tube buffer, a tube line stage pre-amp, and a tube amp to your DAC1 - but it does work._


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting. I have been interested in putting the MF X-10 between my Stello DA100 and DV332 but haven't done it yet. I wonder what improvements if any I would hear? In any case, can you tell me what function the line stage plays? Or, more generally, what is a line stage? Isn't using the M24 Tube DAC/Tube Line Stage for just the line stage a bit of a waste? Sorry for my ignorance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If you have the X10 v3 tube buffer... do try it between your DAC and DV332 - it does add a bit of tube warmth, and soundstage... though its not dramatic.

 The line stage is a pre-amp stage for a tuner, CDP, DAC, Tape, and some include a phono stage pre-amp also. They boost the signal to the amp. In this instance it adds gain/power and some tube warmth.

 Yes... using the M24 for the line stage only is a waste. I'm just trying it with my SS CDP to see what the effect is. If I were just considering a line stage, I would not select the M24 just for that feature alone. But... most line stage units cost as much as the M24 cost me (e.g Mapletree products, etc.).

 I still like the M24 Tube DAC "a bunch," especially with the Grados, and AD2000s. Its just that the Senns, although really great with the M24, may be even better yet with a SS source for clarity and detail, into a tube amp, possibly with a tube buffer, and/or tube line stage to add organic tone, weight and warmth. With amps like the Singlepowers, perhaps the amp alone is enough, without the additional tube buffer and/or tube line stage. 

 Just my initial impressions... after trying this set up with my Senns.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had to go away for work last week, got back yesterday to find all the tubes I've ordered waiting for me. Can't get to play yet, too busy, I'll have to wait for next weekend to get my elbows wet.

 meanwhile:









_

 

Does anyone happen to know which brand of volume control used, since it cannot be seen in the above picture.

 I ask because I'm thinking about having it replaced by a better one. Actually, I could open the lid and have a look myself as I have the amp now, but I'm not so good when it comes to this kind of stuff (that's why I said having it replaced, not replacing it myself).

 From the above pics, it seems to be 8 pins volume.

 One last thing, if the amp is to be modified, which is the first thing that should be done (which is the weakest component)?

 Thanks


----------



## Svirre

I've had my DV332 running just about the entire weekend, I just can't seem to take my HD650's off when they are connected to it. What a synergy! So far I have only exchanged the small tubes, but as far as I understand they are the ones who are most importen sound wise?

 I have one small problem the power connection. The cable provided doesn't work here in Norway, so I had to use another one I had laying around. The strange thing is that it seems a bit to small. It fits, but it's very easy to take it out. I have never came across a device where the power cable didn't fit properly. It's not a big problem though, I never move it anyway and the amp is working just fine. Just thought it was a bit odd.


----------



## nor_spoon

Congratulations with your new amp Svirre! It sure is a nice amp. 
 What tubes are you using?


----------



## Svirre

So far I'm using the LM Ericsson 403B tubes. They were pretty hard to get and sound amazing, so I'll probably stick with them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a few 6S19P-V coming in a couple of days as well.


----------



## nor_spoon

Yeah, the Ericssons are quite hard to get. Have you compared them to other tubes? I have WE403B's, but prefer the Mullard M8100's to them.


----------



## Svirre

The only other tubes I have are a few "6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV". I haven't got around to trying them yet. I have been thinking about getting Mullard M8100 as well, but right now I don't really see the need. 

 Has anyone here tried both the 
 Ericsson 403B and the M8100?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Svirre* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only other tubes I have are a few "6AK5W - 5654 - 6ZH1P-EV". I haven't got around to trying them yet. I have been thinking about getting Mullard M8100 as well, but right now I don't really see the need. 

 Has anyone here tried both the 
 Ericsson 403B and the M8100?_

 

I almost got my hands on 6 Ericssons on ebay, but got outbid in the end. Would like to try them, so I am looking for a pair. If you have a pair you want to sell me, or trade for some Mullards, let me know


----------



## Svirre

Unfortunatly I only got the two tubes that are in my amp right now. :/


----------



## Godkin

I don't know kind of pot the 332 uses but the FIGARO uses a small MK 100K carbon pot. Pretty cheap, but certainly an ALPS pot would be a nice upgrade. Another upgrade would be to try replacing the 33uF SOLEN/SCR output caps and fit something better. I recently replaced the output caps in my MF X-DAC V3, fitting 6uF CLARITY CAPS, and they sound superb.


----------



## chesebert

how to remove tarnish on the tube legs? Thx!

 anyone found the 332 is extremely easy to get ground loop hum..any suggestions?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how to remove tarnish on the tube legs? Thx!

 anyone found the 332 is extremely easy to get ground loop hum..any suggestions?_

 

I had one with my DV332 - fairly faint. Don't know where it was for sure... but... I used 3:2 converter plugs on a couple of my power cords to my DACs and they eliminated it.

 Oh... and to remove the tarnish... just use some WD-40 and a tooth brush... or Pro Gold Tarnish Remover from Radio Shack... or... on the web.


----------



## dhammavijaya

I don't think its a ground loop, but I always get a faint hum when no music in the left channel. Anyone else had this? And is there a cure?


----------



## Skylab

Faint hum is very common in tube amps, and usually due to a specific tube.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Faint hum is very common in tube amps, and usually due to a specific tube._

 

Yes... when its limited to one channel only. 

 Try moving the tubes back and forth to see if it follows the tube. 

 If so, then I've found... that very carefully spreading the pins can tighten their fit in the socket, and eliminate the faint hum in a tube.

 Sometimes... it will disappear after the tubes are warmed up and used for a few hours.

 Or... you may have to replace that tube.


----------



## chesebert

actually the hum gets louder as I turn up the volume...depending on the system i stick the amp in I either get the hum or no. and no hum when I don't have my RCA connected. 

 I still think its ground issue.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually the hum gets louder as I turn up the volume...depending on the system i stick the amp in I either get the hum or no. and no hum when I don't have my RCA connected. 

 I still think its ground issue._

 

We've got two issues going: 1) your ground issue; and 2) dhammavijaya's tube issue.

 Get the converter/cheater plugs and give them a try.


----------



## PrTv

I also encountered the hum issue with some specific tubes (Mullard EF95, and Sylvania 5646), but this problem does not occur with the lowly chinese tubes, WE403B and GE 5646W.

 My understanding is that, if it were really ground loop problem, the hum should be existence regardless of what tubes being used. But chesebert's case is interesting that the hum gets lounder when volume is turned up. Have you tried moving the tubes like Gradofan2 suggested?

 And spearding the pins is really interesting, I will sure give it a try to see if it can make me use my EF95 tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


 By the way, does anyone try upgrading any component such as replacing caps, volume or even tube sockets?


----------



## miky

I'm interested, too. So what's your advice on replacement of the 30uF SCR output caps (for AKG K701) considering the utilization of the existing space?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually the hum gets louder as I turn up the volume...depending on the system i stick the amp in I either get the hum or no. and no hum when I don't have my RCA connected. 

 I still think its ground issue._

 

Again... we've got two... maybe three... different threads going on various "types of hum."

 Chesebert's hum is definitely a ground issue. 

 Again... get some two pronged converter/cheater plugs (if you're in the US - don't know what plugs if in EU)... and... try them on your source power cords. It sounds like its a ground issue in one of your sources, etc. - not the amp.


----------



## dhammavijaya

My hum is there in left channel only and irrespective of what tube I use.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhammavijaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My hum is there in left channel only and irrespective of what tube I use._

 

Have you tried another source?

 Have you swapped your ICs from left to right (reversed them) to see if the hum follows your source connection?

 If you've done that and it still hums in your left channel... and you've tried the cheater plug... and you've tried different tubes and swapped them back and forth... then... it does sound like its in your left amp circuit somewhere. 

 If that's the case... and you're not a "hands on kind a guy"... then... find a good / honest local electrical repair shop, which specializes in audio repairs... and take it to them to repair. Hopefully they'll diagnose the problem and give you an estimate (likely not more than $25)... and... then you can make your decision as to what to do - have them repair it (likely not more than $50 plus part)... get other estimates (should be able to obtain over the phone once you know what the issue is)... or, to send the amp back to China for repair ($160 if its still under warranty - round trip shipping)... or, to buy another amp (if its too costly to repair, and not under warranty). 

 But... in any case, its unlikely to cost you more than $50-$100 to have it repaired locally - there's just not that much to the amp, and its easy to access. If anyone's quoting more than that - find another repair shop. 

 If you could figure out what's causing the problem - you could likely repair it yourself. It may be nothing more than a loose wire (grnd wire, perhaps) in one of the tube sockets (since they're so fragile and some are so loose that you might have broken a wire connection inserting a tube. Might be worth opening the bottom of the amp and looking at all the solder points of the wires and see if any are loose - that's the first thing I'd do... if the other experiments above didn't resolve / isolate the issue as external to the amp.


----------



## Robgo

Could be your wires. Check your power plug. Unplug it, try plugging into a different jack or maybe onto a power strip. Make sure your RCA cables aren't causing it either.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_actually the hum gets louder as I turn up the volume...depending on the system i stick the amp in I either get the hum or no. and no hum when I don't have my RCA connected. 

 I still think its ground issue._

 

I had this issue with every single good amp I had until I stopped using a Micro DAC which had no jitter removal. The noise tended to be shifted towards the left channel, sounding like hum/buzz, and alot like ringing if turned up very loud. Thought it was the amp / tubes, only learned later when I started to read about jitter and acquainted myself with the DA100 (reclocks and oversamples).


----------



## omegaman

What's the RS1 like with this amp ? I am currently loving it with my 650's. So much so that my 225's didn't get alook in so I decided to sell them. I am now thinking I would love to try some RS1's. 

 I know the 332 is probably not the best amp to go with grado's but how bad is it, Will different tubes make a difference. I am currently using svets and WE403b's ?

 How much better is the RS1 over the 225's. If my 225's didn't get any head time will I be wasting my money ?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's the RS1 like with this amp ? I am currently loving it with my 650's. So much so that my 225's didn't get alook in so I decided to sell them. I am now thinking I would love to try some RS1's. 

 I know the 332 is probably not the best amp to go with grado's but how bad is it, Will different tubes make a difference. I am currently using svets and WE403b's ?

 How much better is the RS1 over the 225's. If my 225's didn't get any head time will I be wasting my money ?_

 

The RS-1s sound good with the DV332, though not as good as Senns do with it. If you didn't care for your SR225s with it, you won't care for the RS-1s either - they're not that much better than the SR225s - actually are very similar. If I didn't already have the RS-1s, I would not buy them - I'd get the SR225s. 

 Grados seem to sound a wee bit rough with the DV332 - particularly in the highs. If you want a Grado sound with your DV332 - get the HD580/600s, defoamed with a silver cable (especially good with DV332), or the ATH AD2000s - both are smoother with the DV332.

 This advice is even more relevant... if... you really like the HD650s with the DV332 - all of these alternatives are much brighter than the HD650s are. 

 And... yes tube rolling can help a bit... but, likely not enough to totally resolve any issues you had with your SR225s with the DV332.


----------



## omegaman

Cheers, saved me a few $$$$


----------



## nor_spoon

I simply LOVE my RS-1's with the DV332, using Mullard M8100's. I also have the HD650's...


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers, saved me a few $$$$_

 

RS1 is a significant upgrade from SR225. It's in a league by itself among the Grado line. 

 get the RS1 and don't let others sway your resolve


----------



## Gradofan2

Hey... its only money... your's - for <5% improvement in the sound over the SR225s (if even that) - unless you're "one a them there subjectivist audiophiles." And... I'm the "Gradofan."

 That's not enough for me... considering the significant increase in cost. Especially, when I've got the AD2000s, which are very similar, and perhaps... actually better.

 But... I do still have my RS-1s. Though... I often consider selling them, and replacing them with the SR225s.


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But... I do still have my RS-1s. Though... I often consider selling them, and replacing them with the SR225s._

 

Wish I had read that last week. We could have done a swap


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I simply LOVE my RS-1's with the DV332, using Mullard M8100's. I also have the HD650's..._

 

Which gets the most headtime ?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which gets the most headtime ?_

 

Actually, I don't use my HD650 after getting the RS-1. Listening to the senns just sounds dull and uninspiring in comparison, IMO.


----------



## hawkhead

I thought the RS-1 was a huge leap over the SR325i

 and yes they do go well with the 332 and the right tubes


----------



## omegaman

May have to try a pair after all.


----------



## Gradofan2

If you've got the budget available... by all means... get the RS-1s - they are impressive. Though... "they jes ain't that much better" than the SR225s - its hard to tell the difference. 

 But... if you got the budget... and you really want to "step up" - "gets yo self sum AD2000s" - RS-1s on steroids, with even better soundstage and clarity! And... save yourself $200+.

 And... by the way... we should move this discussion to the thread in the Headphones forum re: RS-1s and/or SR225s - I'd almost forgotten this is the DV332 thread.


----------



## chesebert

Thanks to all..my hum problem went away with a cheater plug on the amp.


----------



## Svirre

Took some pictures of my current setup:


----------



## Godkin

Nice pics, Svirre.


----------



## shellylh

x2, nice pics!


----------



## mchang

FYI... Seems like the price dropped on the DV 332.

 jasmine_chine has one of the Ebay listings at $359 (down from $395). Maybe it is a typo, maybe the other listings haven't been changed yet.

 Either way, I made an offer of $350 shipped. We'll see what happens.


----------



## omegaman

Cheers for sharing those great pics.


----------



## mchang

Must have been a typo. jasmine_chine's counter offer was the standard price reported by others in this thread. Oh well... worth a shot.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FYI... Seems like the price dropped on the DV 332.

 jasmine_chine has one of the Ebay listings at $359 (down from $395). Maybe it is a typo, maybe the other listings haven't been changed yet.

 Either way, I made an offer of $350 shipped. We'll see what happens._


----------



## Zodduska

Hi all, I just joined the 332 club as I am now waiting for the amp to arrive from Jasmine.. I would like to echo all the other positive comments about this seller in this thread as she has been responsive to my emails and shipped the amp very swiftly after receiving payment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am really excited about hearing the 332 with my HD650! After reading the entire thread it seems there are a handful of tubes out there that vastly improve the 332's sound and I'm interested in buying some but have had a little trouble finding them.

 If any fellow 332 owners would be gracious enough to help me out by selling any extra tubes they would be willing to part with I would greatly appreciate it! please PM me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I am most interested in the following:
 2x Tung Sol 6AK5 (sniped, still looking)
 2x WE403B (found and bought)
 2x Mullard M8100 (found and bought)
 2x ULYANOVSK 6S19P-B (found and bought)
 2x Svetlana 6S19P-EV or 6S19P-B (found and bought x8, will have extras up for sale shortly)

 edit: thanks to a great head-fi member I have found several of the tubes I was seeking, still looking for a few others to roll so keep the PMs coming


----------



## mchang

I just purchased a Darkvoice 332 from a Head-Fier. It should be here tomorrow!

 Getting a few free tubes thrown in, to go with tubes already ordered. So I'll get to do my first tube rolling.

 Odd and funny story: Package came from Canada with WE403b's last week. Yesterday, I got an odd box from the Ukraine (Svets). Wife asks, "What's that?" I take a deep breath and start to explain that it was vacuum tubes and it was for a tube amp that I didn't have, and that it was another "you won't understand" purchase.

 Surprisingly, she launches into explaining to me that all of the sound engineers she's worked with (she's a voice talent and used to sing in a band) swore by tube amps and pre-amps, and that it provided a warm, lush sound, etc. etc.

 My jaw dropped! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Five years, and she still surprises me.


----------



## Godkin

Sorry, don't have any tubes to sell at the moment, but here's a matched pair of CV4010s on E-Bay (the CV4010 is the British military version of the M8100):

M8100/CV4010/6AK5W MULLARD NOS MATCHED PAIR on eBay, also Valves Electronic Tubes, Audio, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 05-May-08 09:49:34 BST)


----------



## dhammavijaya

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 If you could figure out what's causing the problem - you could likely repair it yourself. It may be nothing more than a loose wire (grnd wire, perhaps) in one of the tube sockets (since they're so fragile and some are so loose that you might have broken a wire connection inserting a tube. Might be worth opening the bottom of the amp and looking at all the solder points of the wires and see if any are loose - that's the first thing I'd do... if the other experiments above didn't resolve / isolate the issue as external to the amp._

 

Thanks very much for this advice, but before I proceed, I was just wondering if other owners get any degree of humming with the 332 when not faulty. Should gaps between tracks be absolutely silent? Or should one expect a faint hum that sounds like that of the transformer when you put your ear against it?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhammavijaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks very much for this advice, but before I proceed, I was just wondering if other owners get any degree of humming with the 332 when not faulty. Should gaps between tracks be absolutely silent? Or should one expect a faint hum that sounds like that of the transformer when you put your ear against it?_

 

No hum... or... noise at normal listening volumes.


----------



## Godkin

There should be no hum at all. My 332 has always been "inky black" quiet. Are you still using the stock tubes? If so, that could be the source of the problem.


----------



## dhammavijaya

No. I've got good tubes in. I think I'll open it up and have a look.


----------



## mchang

I just got back from a business trip at 1:00 AM CST. Waiting on the doorstep was my Darkvoice 332. I unpacked, put on a pair of rubber gloves, carefully inserted my NOB Svetlana 6S19P-B and WE403b tubes (first time handling a vacuum tube!), plugged everything in, and snuck a few tracks.

 Very quick impression: the DV332 brings serious punch! I like!

 Quick notes on hum, I've noticed the following (remember, amp is secondhand, tubes NOB, stock power cable):

 - loud noticeable HUM for the first hour. Can hear when volume is at zero and throughout the dial. Can here in quiet passage of tracks and when nothing is playing from source. I swapped power cables with stock GLite cable. Tiny/no improvement. Used cheater plug I got with the amp deal. No improvement.

 - went to bed after 1 hour. Left tunes playing over night. Woke up six hours later. No hum heard during quiet passages or when no track is playing. Assuming this was tube burn-in at work.

 - With volume at zero, a slight BUZZ can be heard. Cheater plug added results in no change. When volume knob is turned up just slightly, the buzz goes away.

 - When nothing is playing and I pass 12:00 on volume (way too loud), I get a faint SSSSS. It gets slightly louder as I turn volume to max, but still quite faint.

 So for the purposes of safe and everyday listening, I would call my setup (tubes, amps and stock cable) "silent." I'll definitely try the GLite cable again and see if it makes a difference. And try different DACs to see if jitter (?) is playing a role.

 In the meantime, no time for buzz/hum listening. Here comes the music!


----------



## dhammavijaya

OK. After opening up and finding nothing obvious, I tried changes to various combination of mains plugs, sockets and trailers and found a combination with which the hum has ceased. Perhaps there was some kind of loop with my power amps. Anyway, great to listen now with the inky blackness Godkin mentions. Thanks guys.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Hey guys, I've stayed up all of last night reading this huge thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Am I to understand that headphones of low impedance (i.e. Grado) are too sensitive for the Darkvoice 332?

 Some say it sounds great, others (aka GradoFan2) say they get "rough," and that description is dissuading me.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I've stayed up all of last night reading this huge thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Am I to understand that headphones of low impedance (i.e. Grado) are too sensitive for the Darkvoice 332?

 Some say it sounds great, others (aka GradoFan2) say they get "rough," and that description is dissuading me.

 Thanks in advance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm with Gradofan on this one. Maybe there's a tube combination that's better. I haven't spent that long to find it though.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Hey *jellojoe*, thanks for the input. My gut feeling tells me that this amp isn't for me ; now I have to PM the 332 seller in the FS Amp thread and apologize for backing out.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jellojoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm with Gradofan on this one. Maybe there's a tube combination that's better. I haven't spent that long to find it though._

 

What I mean by "rough" is that their highs and upper mids aren't as smooth as the Senns, or even the AD2000s. The RS-1s don't sound terrible... they just sound a bit less smooth ("rough"), and harder than these other phones.

 I don't know whether tube rolling would help, because I haven't had the patience to try that with the RS-1s, exclusively - I've been too impressed with the sound of my selected tubes with the Senns and AD2000s.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheMarchingMule* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey *jellojoe*, thanks for the input. My gut feeling tells me that this amp isn't for me ; now I have to PM the 332 seller in the FS Amp thread and apologize for backing out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

For about the same price you could pick up that Mapletree that's also in the FS section.


----------



## TheMarchingMule

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jellojoe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For about the same price you could pick up that Mapletree that's also in the FS section._

 

Yar, but I got easily dissuaded with the comment on the scratches. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Right now I'm looking into the SinglePower PPX3!


----------



## Zodduska

Hi all, I have a fresh 332 sitting on my desk tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is my first tube amp so saying I was excited to try it out would be quite an understatement. I hit a slight roadblock when I went to warm the amp up and noticed that the left channel 6S19 wasn't glowing nearly as much as the others. At this point my HD650 were already connected so I decided to play something through them (in retrospect this seems like a really bad idea) to confirm the problem.. sure enough - no sound in the left channel. I swapped the non-glowy 6S19 out for an Uly I had on standby, fired up the amp and had no problems.. then let it cool down for about 20min before swapping the rest of the tubes to an initial configuration of 2 Uly 6S19P-B and 2 Ericsson 403B.

 First impressions, wow.. HD650 sound fantastic with the 332.. they really come alive especially electric guitar and vocals, drums have very good impact. There is a "tube" sound for sure that to me seems to make everything more liquid smooth, everything is seperate but also somehow together.. pretty awesome, I can only imagine how good this will sound when properly burned in because it is already blowing me away with each album I throw at it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm using foobar and AV-710 as an optical transport into my Presonus Central Station for DAC treatment, ProCo TS>RCA interconnect and IronLung Jellyfish power to replace the junky one the 332 came with.


----------



## nor_spoon

Seems like if people have problems with the DV332, its the left channel. I have noticed this on my own. When I got mine, the left channel was dead, until I rugged the tubes slightly. I sometimes notices som hiss from tube in the left channel, and have to move the left tube slightly to fix it. This happens when I roll tubes. If left in untouched, no problems. Could be the sockets maybe?


----------



## Robgo

I think it is the sockets. I got humming with some cheaper tubes I bought. The same tubes, in a tube buffer I was using, were dead silent. They would hum even with the spring tube holders in place as well.


----------



## nor_spoon

Mine is dead silent. No hum or background noise whatsoever. Even if I crank the volume to max, there is just black background.

 The hizz and cracks only occur if the tube doesn't sit in its "special" position in the socket.


----------



## Skylab

I have had that problem with the 337 - the tubes are only silent when in the exact right position in the sockets. I plan to replace the sockets in the 337 at some point...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have had that problem with the 337 - the tubes are only silent when in the exact right position in the sockets. I plan to replace the sockets in the 337 at some point..._

 

That can happen with any socket... if the tube pins aren't set properly. Just carefully and gently straighten, or spread the pins a bit and they'll fit tightly in the sockets. But be careful... its easy to break the pins out of the glass. I use small needle nose pliers to help keep the pressure off the glass, as I bend the pins.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *minden* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think everyone agrees that the 332 and the HD650 are well suited and they were the first combination I tried. But at the moment the amp has impressed me most partnered with the DT880. I have been neglecting the DT880 for the last month and mostly switching between HD650 and HF-1 but not anymore.

 The Darkvoice seems to both smooth the treble out and pump up the bass of the DT880, with the Aria it can be a little bit treble centric and bass shy, with the 332 it excels. I am not saying I enjoy it more on the 332 than the HD650 but it has improved more with the Darkvoice than the HD650 has (note the HD650 loves the Arias crisp delivery).

 Have not tried the AT900 yet._

 

exactly what I was wanting to find out
 THANK YOU!

 I have DT880's and an area and wanted to upgrade to the HD650's and a new amp
 funk yeah


----------



## AntiGeek

Had my DV332 for about 3-weeks now. Awesome bit of kit. Replaces my old LisaIII XP headphone amp. Totally in a different league. Far more power into HD650 cans and incredible dynamics!! 

 Its so good, I am now thinking about getting a new DAC to release the DV332s full potential. Ordered DV332 from jasmine_chine on Ebay. Marked as commercial sample so no UK customs fees. Arrived within a week and was excellently packed.

 Soon had the stock tubes ripped out and replaced with 
 6S19P-V and Mullard CV4010 tubes. What a major improvement!!

 No problems, buzzing or humming. Pleased to say DarkVoice appear to have got their act together as it features ceramic tube sockets all round. No loose tubes here!! 

 Overall my first venture into valve amplication (except for a crummy Xcans v2) has been a total sucess and a real eye opener. Not sure I shall return back to SS in a hurry!!


----------



## mchang

I think I've got my setup (for at least quite a while) in place.

 Mac Mini -> Airport Express -> generic optical toslink -> Oritek Modded Zhaolu v4.1 DAC -> generic RCA IC -> Darkvoice 332 with Svetlana 6S19P-V and Western Electric 403B tubs -> stock Senn cable -> Sennheiser HD650.

 The OMZ has only run for 4-5 hours (not the 100 suggested by Ori), but the rest of the gear has settled in.

 I'm loving the sound. It's a noticeable improvement from EMU 0404 USB driving the rig (I was afraid I wouldn't be able tell). The highs really sparkle, the mids are lush, and the bass is tight and thumping.

 I think I've eliminated any buzzes or hums, but I won't know until I move the gear to final location in the bedroom.

 I'll also be testing the DV against my also-quite-new Gilmore Lite+DPS. Initial listening shows that GLite is a bit faster and has a bit better instrument separation, but is a bit more fatiguing in the highs. The DV places the vocals front and center and has stronger bass, but sacrifices a bit of instrument clarity.

 This is very preliminary listening. And I had to listen quite hard to put together the list above. Neither is a clear winner or loser so far (not that I'm expecting one). It is making it hard to decide whether I want to sell one or the other, or keep both. I don't have room/budget for both, do I?!?!


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DV places the vocals front and center and has stronger bass, but sacrifices a bit of instrument clarity_

 

My experience with tube amps like the Doge 6210 and ASL 845 monoblocks is that you must replace all coupling caps to get them to perform, especially in regard to treble clarity. This is not just "nice to have"!
 I wish manufacturers tending to the audiophile market will stop selling sexy packages with the cheapest
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 caps they could find. An extra $20-30 to the price tag will not "break the bank" and the improvement in sound quality is well beyond swapping tubes!!!


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Had my DV332 for about 3-weeks now. Awesome bit of kit. Replaces my old LisaIII XP headphone amp. Totally in a different league. Far more power into HD650 cans and incredible dynamics!! 

 Its so good, I am now thinking about getting a new DAC to release the DV332s full potential. Ordered DV332 from jasmine_chine on Ebay. Marked as commercial sample so no UK customs fees. Arrived within a week and was excellently packed.

 Soon had the stock tubes ripped out and replaced with 
 6S19P-V and Mullard CV4010 tubes. What a major improvement!!

 No problems, buzzing or humming. Pleased to say DarkVoice appear to have got their act together as it features ceramic tube sockets all round. No loose tubes here!! 

 Overall my first venture into valve amplication (except for a crummy Xcans v2) has been a total sucess and a real eye opener. Not sure I shall return back to SS in a hurry!!_

 


 Hey antiGeek, good to hear that the DV332 is working well for you.
 Could you post a pic of the ceramic tube sockets in your amp perhaps? Is this a new addition to the current production DV332 amps?

 Thanks


----------



## DefectiveAudioComponent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm loving the sound. It's a noticeable improvement from EMU 0404 USB driving the rig (I was afraid I wouldn't be able tell). The highs really sparkle, the mids are lush, and the bass is tight and thumping._

 

I do not doubt your comparison at all, but in my opinion the bass through the 0404+xcanv3 is also tight and thumping. With that I just want to say that the 0404 does not lack these qualities, although some other equipment (that I have not listened through) may be even better.


----------



## leng jai

I am getting humming and its definitely due to one of the tubes. I swapped 2 of them around and the humming switched from the left to the right channel. Can anyone direct me on where to get a set of tubes to Australia?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with tube amps like the Doge 6210 and ASL 845 monoblocks is that you must replace all coupling caps to get them to perform, especially in regard to treble clarity. This is not just "nice to have"!
 I wish manufacturers tending to the audiophile market will stop selling sexy packages with the cheapest
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 caps they could find. An extra $20-30 to the price tag will not "break the bank" and the improvement in sound quality is well beyond swapping tubes!!!_

 

Well, I am going to have to replace the coupling caps in a cheap Chinese amp I bought for grins, since I blew them up in less than a week


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I am going to have to replace the coupling caps in a cheap Chinese amp I bought for grins, since I blew them up in less than a week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, that's not an amp - it's an adventure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hopefully the leaky caps didn't take out the tubes and if so, then no big loss anyway. Go for the better quality foil/film caps. They are reasonably priced at these small values and are much superior to any metalized cap (Solen, Auricap, Clarity and the likes) you might find for a few pennies less.
 Make sure the rated voltage is above the B+ if it's coupled into a resistive load, double that value into an inductive load.
 Since I see a few tube amps in your inventory, why not peek inside them all. Once you re-cap one amp, I guaranty you would want to change them all...


----------



## fateicon

Just got my 332 a few days ago. Still using the stock tubes, but ordered those military version M8100s. I have no idea how to tube roll, so I'll have to figure that one out.

 With an Arcam 73 and RS-1, using a regular RCA cable, I get no hum or any other noise, but the sound is very dark and murky. Colorless in a word. 

 Definitely less harsh then using portable amps with this setup. Hopefully I don't end up breaking the M8100s or anything else when I try to roll them.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fateicon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my 332 a few days ago. Still using the stock tubes, but ordered those military version M8100s. I have no idea how to tube roll, so I'll have to figure that one out.

 With an Arcam 73 and RS-1, using a regular RCA cable, I get no hum or any other noise, but the sound is very dark and murky. Colorless in a word. 

 Definitely less harsh then using portable amps with this setup. Hopefully I don't end up breaking the M8100s or anything else when I try to roll them._

 

Congrats on your new amp fateicon! Good choice on the M8100's. You'll hear that it is quite a nice improvement from the stock tubes.
 Tube rolling is easy. Just remove the protection caps, rug the tube gently from side to side, while pulling it out of its socket. If you wanna be careful, use gloves or something, so you don't leave any grease on the tubes.


----------



## miky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with tube amps like the Doge 6210 and ASL 845 monoblocks is that you must replace all coupling caps to get them to perform, especially in regard to treble clarity. This is not just "nice to have"!_

 

What capacitors would you recommend as a replacement for Solen 30uf (36x53mm)?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, that's not an amp - it's an adventure...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hopefully the leaky caps didn't take out the tubes and if so, then no big loss anyway. Go for the better quality foil/film caps. They are reasonably priced at these small values and are much superior to any metalized cap (Solen, Auricap, Clarity and the likes) you might find for a few pennies less.
 Make sure the rated voltage is above the B+ if it's coupled into a resistive load, double that value into an inductive load.
 Since I see a few tube amps in your inventory, why not peek inside them all. Once you re-cap one amp, I guaranty you would want to change them all..._

 

Good suggestions, thanks. I bought some nice film caps from Parts Express right after the incident - just haven't had time to put them in yet.


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey antiGeek, good to hear that the DV332 is working well for you.
 Could you post a pic of the ceramic tube sockets in your amp perhaps? Is this a new addition to the current production DV332 amps?

 Thanks_

 

Hi Musicmind



 Yeah, I shall post a few pics in a couple of hours or so of the large ceramic tube holders. Basically they are white and almost identical in appearance to the smaller tube sockets.

 I think that they must be a new (and much welcome) addition to the current production DV332 amps.

 AntiGeek


----------



## AntiGeek

Pics as promised!!

 Click to enlarge


----------



## dreamwhisper

Hey guys I've been lurking this thread and am planning on buying a DV332.

 I'm planning on ordering from Jasmine_Chine on eBay, and I just received an email from him asking me if I wanted to buy it from him outside of eBay, if I do this I am not entitled to PayPal/eBay buyer protection. He has nothing but good feedback from people on Head-Fi, and I'm currently weighing the risk of me getting scammed.

 Do any of you know what voltage North America power outlets use?(Canada)


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I've been lurking this thread and am planning on buying a DV332.

 I'm planning on ordering from Jasmine_Chine on eBay, and I just received an email from him asking me if I wanted to buy it from him outside of eBay, if I do this I am not entitled to PayPal/eBay buyer protection. He has nothing but good feedback from people on Head-Fi, and I'm currently weighing the risk of me getting scammed.

 Do any of you know what voltage North America power outlets use?(Canada)_

 

How much would you save... by doing that? My guess is... not enough to lose the protection - though, I'm not really sure its worth anything anyway (based on my experiences with PayPal).

 Don't know about Canada... but US is generally compatible with 110-120 volts. My guess is that Canada is similar.


----------



## nor_spoon

I remember I was asked the same thing. I don't remember the amount I could save by paying outside, but it was not much, so I decided to do it the normal way through ebay. If something goes wrong in the process, I guess it's easier to get it sorted when done the "right" way...


----------



## musicmind

Thanks very much for the pics AntiGeek.

 I'm glad DV are fixing this little problem which was a nuisance in an otherwise great amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I've been lurking this thread and am planning on buying a DV332.

 I'm planning on ordering from Jasmine_Chine on eBay, and I just received an email from him asking me if I wanted to buy it from him outside of eBay, if I do this I am not entitled to PayPal/eBay buyer protection. He has nothing but good feedback from people on Head-Fi, and I'm currently weighing the risk of me getting scammed.

 Do any of you know what voltage North America power outlets use?(Canada)_

 

I have bought from Jasmine-Chine outside of EBay many times, no problems. You still use Paypal, so you have some protection especially if you use a credit card, but in my experience, it's not an issue. Jasmine is a 100% on the up and up seller.

 Canada is 110/120V just like the US.


----------



## nor_spoon

Yes, Jasmine is HIGHLY recommended from me. Fastest shipping and service I've encountered to date.


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *miky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What capacitors would you recommend as a replacement for Solen 30uf (36x53mm)?_

 

30uF is a large value - what's the application?
 For values of 2.2uF or less I had good results with Hovland, but I'm sure other foil caps (i.e. non-metalized!) are decent too.
 For a large value like this you might have to compromise due to space considerations. KimberKap have decent metalized caps that sound to me much better than Solen. Auricap is another option, but the price is much higher last time I checked. I also heard good comments about Clarity caps and i'll have a chance to audition these next week in a newly done crossover for big Usher speakers. Preliminary "report" is good.
 Bypass the metalized cap with a small film cap around 10% the value. In your case, a 2.2uF is close enough. You can try it with the Solen or just order the better caps and do the job right.
 When selecting caps, determine the actual operating voltage and pick a cap with a slightly higher voltage rating. Don't go with much higher voltage than needed, because that usually means thicker dielectric, which is bad for audio applications.


----------



## Godkin

Clarity Caps are excellent. I've tried them in the output stage of my MF X-DAC V3 with great results.


----------



## dreamwhisper

hmm, worth it?

 NOS 4 Tung Sol Vacuum Radio Tubes 6AK5 Matched for 30$? 
 2 Sylvania Gold Brand NOS 5654 / 6AK5 for $60?
 5 NOS Sylvania 6AK5 WB (USA) Vacuum Tubes NIB for $ 25

 How much are you guys willing to pay for tubes?
 Does anyone know if there is a 6AK5W version of Tung Sol tubes?


----------



## dreamwhisper

lol
 I went to eat dinner and Penchum from Headfi got em

 nice one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 OK, what do people use to snipe eBay auctions?

 Oh and these Svetlana tubes, are they mixed together with "Russian Audiophile tubes" or sold separately under Svetlana 6S19P-V's


----------



## mchang

For reference, I paid $35 for two WE403B tubes. And I paid $46.00 for ten Svetlana 6S19P-V tubes. Couldn't be happier.

 Edit: all extra Svets sold.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, worth it?

 NOS 4 Tung Sol Vacuum Radio Tubes 6AK5 Matched for 30$? 
 2 Sylvania Gold Brand NOS 5654 / 6AK5 for $60?
 5 NOS Sylvania 6AK5 WB (USA) Vacuum Tubes NIB for $ 25

 How much are you guys willing to pay for tubes?
 Does anyone know if there is a 6AK5W version of Tung Sol tubes?_


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hmm, worth it?

 NOS 4 Tung Sol Vacuum Radio Tubes 6AK5 Matched for 30$? 
 2 Sylvania Gold Brand NOS 5654 / 6AK5 for $60?
 5 NOS Sylvania 6AK5 WB (USA) Vacuum Tubes NIB for $ 25

 How much are you guys willing to pay for tubes?
 Does anyone know if there is a 6AK5W version of Tung Sol tubes?_

 

There are 6AK5 versions of TS tubes... and... "they're spectacular!"


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For reference, I paid $35 for two WE403B tubes. And I paid $46.00 for ten Svetlana 6S19P-V tubes. Couldn't be happier. I'll likely unload two of the Svets in a while._

 

Please sell them to me!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have no tubes yet lol


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys I've been lurking this thread and am planning on buying a DV332.

 I'm planning on ordering from Jasmine_Chine on eBay, and I just received an email from him asking me if I wanted to buy it from him outside of eBay, if I do this I am not entitled to PayPal/eBay buyer protection. He has nothing but good feedback from people on Head-Fi, and I'm currently weighing the risk of me getting scammed.

 Do any of you know what voltage North America power outlets use?(Canada)_

 

I did the same. No worries with Jasmine, I got mine in 4 days. He is 100% genuine.


----------



## miky

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_30uF is a large value - what's the application?_

 

It's DV 332 output coupling caps






 I like Clarity Caps, but Clarity Caps SA 33uf - 66x70 mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ori* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When selecting caps, determine the actual operating voltage and pick a cap with a slightly higher voltage rating._

 

I measured 64v - it's reasonable? 100v will be good?


----------



## Ori

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *miky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's DV 332 output coupling caps
 I like Clarity Caps, but Clarity Caps SA 33uf - 66x70 mm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

From the pic it's obvious that space is a problem. In addition, 30uF is a bit small in this position. I calculated 176 ohm impedance for this cap at 30Hz. Depending on your headphones, it may severely roll off the low bass.
  Quote:


 I measured 64v - it's reasonable? 100v will be good? 
 

You can't just measure the DC on the cap for that value. You have to assume that the voltage will swing higher when you apply an input signal. It's best to measure the power supply going to the final tube and take some margin over that. In your pic, that would be the top point of the large green resistors.

 Like I said before, you may end up with the same caps with a foil cap as a bypass for each.
 You should also replace the input caps (0.47uF, on the green PCB on the bottom left in the pic) with quality foil caps. To keep it consistent, I'd use the same type and value caps for bypassing the output Solens.


----------



## dreamwhisper

8 Svetlana 6S19P-V tubes on eBay:
8 pcs Triode 6S19P. Audiophile Tube NEW - eBay (item 150224515860 end time Mar-17-08 10:44:28 PDT)

 2 WE403A & 2 WE403B tubes on eBay
Four Western Electric 403A, 403B Tubes - eBay (item 370030919404 end time Mar-14-08 19:00:00 PDT)


----------



## Godkin

Nice tubes, Dreamwhisper. Be aware that the SVETLANAs are the "Ps" not the "P-Vs" versions, meaning that they are not "ruggedised" or mechanically improved. Should still sound good though.


----------



## dreamwhisper

I think they might be the 6S19P-V's just the buyer doesn't know it
 I saw pictures of them and they look identical to Svetlana 6S19p-V's... their serial number and everything

 I'm not going to bid on those, but I bought some Svets from the same seller a couple days ago. I'll let you guys know how they sound compared to the 2 tried & true bonafide Svetlana 6S19P-V's I'm buying off of mchang.
 I think I'm done with auctions, I always get sniped.. 

 BTW what does tube matching do?


----------



## Zodduska

Miky, after seeing the discoloration on some of the wires in there I'm a bit concerned about the longevity of my 332. Can you confirm if those are burns or rust or what? Do you leave it on for very extended periods?


----------



## mchang

I need some help from the DV332 gurus:

 I still have the faintest whine/hum ("weeeeee") from my second-hand 332 through my headphones. It sounds like the electrical hum the amp puts out externally when you turn it on, but higher pitched and I hear it through my HD650s. Kinda like the sound old CRT TVs make when turned on.

 I hear it when the music is turned off, but the everything else in on and the volume is turned to normal 9:00 level. Or when the music is very soft (especially if volume is turned down).

 If I swap in my GLite+DPS, everything is SILENT SILENT SILENT.

 In addition, there is the occasional sound that sounds like a glassy shushing ("shoosh shoosh shoosh"). It is also very faint. It is intermittent and is most noticeable when music is off or playing softly.

 This shushing is kind of similar to, but MUCH MUCH softer and shorter in length than the shutdown glass-clinking sound ("plink clink shlink plink clink shlink"), which I'm assuming is tubes powering down and is normal.

 I've pulled the Svets and WE403bs a couple of different times, swapped location and this last time, pulled the pins out slightly, straightened them if crooked, and lightly brushed with a Brillo pad. They seem clean and straight.

 Overall, the sound is great from my setup, but this last 1% of issues is preventing bliss.

 Any ideas? Is this normal?

 P.S. Addition of cheater plug does nothing. I've also swapped stock DV power cable for stock GLite cable; no improvement. I've got a $40 Acoustic Research "power conditioner" surge protector plugged into the wall.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stuff_

 

I've noticed mine picks up my cellphone signal quite easily, check for other things you might have like a wireless router or anything else that might be putting out a lot of RF within range of the amp. For the electric hum I was going to suggest ground loop, since one cheater plug doesn't work maybe it is coming through the RCA's from your source so try a cheater plug on it as well.


----------



## nor_spoon

Did you try other tubes? I got a pair of Ericsson 6AK5 that makes some noise like you describe. I could be wrong, but I think the noise was only in left channel, even if I swapped positions. With the Mullards, everything is quiet.


----------



## mchang

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I could be wrong, but I think the noise was only in left channel, even if I swapped positions._

 

I believe this to be true in my case, as well!

 I'll try the other tubes (non-stock) that were sold/gifted with the amp.

 ===

 As for Zodduska's suggestion about cheater plugs all around, wouldn't the DAC (if it needed a plug) be buzzing with my GLite, too? I don't know the answer, just asking...

 I'll definitely move my Airport Express as far away as I can and see if that helps.


----------



## shellylh

Since I sold you the amp, I'll chime in. I had a small hum when used with some tubes. Also, I was getting a bit of ground loop (same as I get with the SP Extreme) in my setup when everything was plugged in (I think it was because of the computer that the DAC was plugged into). However, when I used my WE 403Bs (different than the ones you have) and a pair of Ulys (or stock tubes) and a cheater plug, it was completely silent. This isn't much help but I just thought it may help you solve the problem. 

 Sorry to hear that you haven't been able to experiene bliss yet!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need some help from the DV332 gurus:

 I still have the faintest whine/hum ("weeeeee") from my second-hand 332 through my headphones. It sounds like the electrical hum the amp puts out externally when you turn it on, but higher pitched and I hear it through my HD650s. Kinda like the sound old CRT TVs make when turned on.

 I hear it when the music is turned off, but the everything else in on and the volume is turned to normal 9:00 level. Or when the music is very soft (especially if volume is turned down).

 If I swap in my GLite+DPS, everything is SILENT SILENT SILENT.

 In addition, there is the occasional sound that sounds like a glassy shushing ("shoosh shoosh shoosh"). It is also very faint. It is intermittent and is most noticeable when music is off or playing softly.

 This shushing is kind of similar to, but MUCH MUCH softer and shorter in length than the shutdown glass-clinking sound ("plink clink shlink plink clink shlink"), which I'm assuming is tubes powering down and is normal.

 I've pulled the Svets and WE403bs a couple of different times, swapped location and this last time, pulled the pins out slightly, straightened them if crooked, and lightly brushed with a Brillo pad. They seem clean and straight.

 Overall, the sound is great from my setup, but this last 1% of issues is preventing bliss.

 Any ideas? Is this normal?

 P.S. Addition of cheater plug does nothing. I've also swapped stock DV power cable for stock GLite cable; no improvement. I've got a $40 Acoustic Research "power conditioner" surge protector plugged into the wall._


----------



## shellylh

I think it may depend on the amp. Someone please correct me if I am incorrect.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 As for Zodduska's suggestion about cheater plugs all around, wouldn't the DAC (if it needed a plug) be buzzing with my GLite, too? I don't know the answer, just asking...

 I'll definitely move my Airport Express as far away as I can and see if that helps._


----------



## Gradofan2

Just do it... and... see if it works - don't debate it.

 I had the same problem... and... it worked for me.


----------



## mchang

Thanks for replies, gurus! Cheater plugs all around!

 No worries, Shelly. The amp is great, and I'm sure it'll all work out.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just do it... and... see if it works - don't debate it.

 I had the same problem... and... it worked for me._

 

What did you do? 
 Cheater plugs, switch tubes?

 cheers


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What did you do? 
 Cheater plugs, switch tubes?

 cheers_

 

I just installed a cheater plug on the CDP power cord and that resolved the problem - eliminated the ground loop hum. 

 You may have to experiment with your various power cords to see which one(s) may be causing the problem (or will eliminate it) - maybe one, maybe several.


----------



## mchang

Update: I believe I've isolated the issue to my two WE403b tubes.

 Started by adding cheater plugs to both amp and DAC. Also my second-hand Jellyfish power cord arrived. Using it on DV. Even with all the changes, it was still whining and glassy swooshing.

 Unplugged DAC, Airport Express, GLite, everything except DV. Plugged in my iPod with LOD to RCA. Same. 

 Removed cheater plugs. Swapped two Svets for two other Svets. Left WE403b in place. Same whine and glassiness. 

 Swapped 403s for two Ericsson 6AK5 tubes that shellylh gifted with sale. I think this has cured the whine and glass! Still running the newer pair of Svets. Plugged everything back in. No cheater plugs. Airport is about six inches from DV. 

 I can't tell any SQ differences, so all appears good. I'm not jinxing it by claiming "bliss" yet, but it's close!


----------



## shellylh

Glad to here it was the probably the tubes, they are easy to replace. It's too bad that you already owned a pair of WE403b's when you bought the amp or I would have thrown a pair in with the amp. Unfortunately, I sold both of my WE403b's and Ericsson 403b's to someone already. You should really try to get another pair of 403b's, they outshine the 6AK5Ws by far (IMO). 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update: I believe I've isolated the issue to my two WE403b tubes.

 Started by adding cheater plugs to both amp and DAC. Also my second-hand Jellyfish power cord arrived. Using it on DV. Even with all the changes, it was still whining and glassy swooshing.

 Unplugged DAC, Airport Express, GLite, everything except DV. Plugged in my iPod with LOD to RCA. Same. 

 Removed cheater plugs. Swapped two Svets for two other Svets. Left WE403b in place. Same whine and glassiness. 

 Swapped 403s for two Ericsson 6AK5 tubes that shellylh gifted with sale. I think this has cured the whine and glass! Still running the newer pair of Svets. Plugged everything back in. No cheater plugs. Airport is about six inches from DV. 

 I can't tell any SQ differences, so all appears good. I'm not jinxing it by claiming "bliss" yet, but it's close! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## mybeat

Recieved my Darkvoice 332 today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordered from Jasmine, and must say she is an excellent seller.

 I have 1 question, how do you remove those black tube surrounding thingies?
 I've tried unscrewing them, pulling them up, no luck.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recieved my Darkvoice 332 today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordered from Jasmine, and must say she is an excellent seller.

 I have 1 question, how do you remove those black tube surrounding thingies?
 I've tried unscrewing them, pulling them up, no luck._

 

congrats on your DV332! I'm loving mine, and yes Jasmine rocks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to remove the tube covers gently push down on them and turn counter-clockwise while keeping even pressure, you should feel them release and spring upwards, then carefully slide them up and off.


----------



## mybeat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_congrats on your DV332! I'm loving mine, and yes Jasmine rocks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to remove the tube covers gently push down on them and turn counter-clockwise while keeping even pressure, you should feel them release and spring upwards, then carefully slide them up and off._

 

Thanx, that helped.
 Does it matter if they are removed or they should stay there?


----------



## Zodduska

No problem. from what I have seen it seems like most people leave them off, I do. though, I cant say for sure weather or not there is any benefit for having them either on or off.. it seems they are intended to act as tube dampeners and possibly heatsinks as well. Jasmine would probably be a good person to ask, let me know what they say if you decide to


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Recieved my Darkvoice 332 today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Ordered from Jasmine, and must say she is an excellent seller.

 I have 1 question, how do you remove those black tube surrounding thingies?
 I've tried unscrewing them, pulling them up, no luck._

 

I'm just curious... 

 ... how do we know "Jasmine" is a female?

 Isn't that just a business name? 

 Isn't it possible... Jasmine... is actually a business... staffed primarily by males?

 If so... shouldn't we... refer to "Jasmine" as a business entity... and... and not "gender specific?'' 

 "I mean... I'm just sayin'."


 Jasmine... if you're out there... can you clear this up?


----------



## Skylab

Well, considering "Jasmine"'s email address is Alexander Zhou...


----------



## russman

Im so engrossed in this thread, reading through all the long post.. gain alot of infos from you guys. Now after much reading.. i think ill try my first roll, with a pair of Mullard M8100 + Ulyanovsk 6S19P ..
 good move?

 And oh.. its my first post in head-fi too. 

 Regards,
 russman.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *russman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im so engrossed in this thread, reading through all the long post.. gain alot of infos from you guys. Now after much reading.. i think ill try my first roll, with a pair of Mullard M8100 + Ulyanovsk 6S19P ..
 good move?

 And oh.. its my first post in head-fi too. 

 Regards,
 russman._

 

Heya russman, 
 welcome to head-fi! I think you made a good choice of tubes to try, I'm still looking for some of the mullard's to try myself so I can't speak from experience but it surely will be a large improvement over the stock tubes. Enjoy your 332 tube rolling... and sorry about your wallet.


----------



## shellylh

By the way, I just saw that they have some Mullards for $4.75/tube at: 

Antique Electronic Supply

 They are listed as: "5654/6AK5W - PENTODE, SHARP CUTOFF, RF, MULLARD LABELED CV4010." The picture of the tube has "Mullard M8100" on it. You could call/email them to find out more.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heya russman, 
 welcome to head-fi! I think you made a good choice of tubes to try, I'm still looking for some of the mullard's to try myself so I can't speak from experience but it surely will be a large improvement over the stock tubes. Enjoy your 332 tube rolling... and sorry about your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Godkin

Good combo, Russman. Look also for the CV4010s - they are the military version of the M8100s.


----------



## russman

Thank you godkin, shellylh, zodduska.
 Seems like these tubes are hard to find.. i manage to find a store in taiwan that sells these mullards, but they have two version.. so i dont know are these good ones or clones? Seems like they have plenty of stocks.

 this http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=271

 and this
http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=521

 and, is tube matching crucial?


----------



## Kataklystik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good combo, Russman. Look also for the CV4010s - they are the military version of the M8100s._

 

Isn't the M8100 the military version of the CV4010?


----------



## Kataklystik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *russman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you godkin, shellylh, zodduska.
 Seems like these tubes are hard to find.. i manage to find a store in taiwan that sells these mullards, but they have two version.. so i dont know are these good ones or clones? Seems like they have plenty of stocks.

 this http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=271

 and this
http://www.audio.idv.tw/shop/product...roducts_id=521

 and, is tube matching crucial?_

 

I ordered 4 matched M8100s (from your first link) from them and everything went fine. I paid directly with paypal and the tubes were sent to me the next day, shipping was fast as far as I remember. 
 I'm using 2 of them and a friend of mine is using the other pair and we're both satisfied. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think it's a problem if your tubes aren't matched. My Ulyanovsks aren't matched and they work perfectly fine too. 
 However this shop provides a cheap matching service so if you want to, have them matched.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, I just saw that they have some Mullards for $4.75/tube at: 

Antique Electronic Supply

 They are listed as: "5654/6AK5W - PENTODE, SHARP CUTOFF, RF, MULLARD LABELED CV4010." The picture of the tube has "Mullard M8100" on it. You could call/email them to find out more._

 

Nice find! I'll check it out, thanks


----------



## russman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kataklystik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered 4 matched M8100s (from your first link) from them and everything went fine. I paid directly with paypal and the tubes were sent to me the next day, shipping was fast as far as I remember. 
 I'm using 2 of them and a friend of mine is using the other pair and we're both satisfied. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't think it's a problem if your tubes aren't matched. My Ulyanovsks aren't matched and they work perfectly fine too. 
 However this shop provides a cheap matching service so if you want to, have them matched._

 

Great.. now problem solved for m8100, now i cant seem to find the Ulyanovsks in this shop.. and dont see any other choices as well, you know any other online store carries it?.

 "shellylh".. nice find, thx


----------



## dreamwhisper

hmm


----------



## Godkin

There are plenty of good sellers on E-Bay who sell the ULYANOVSK 6S19P. Try these, Russman:

6S19P-V Russian Audiophile Tube. Lot of 4 pcs. on eBay, also Vacuum Tubes, Tubes, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 24-Mar-08 22:31:34 GMT)


----------



## Robgo

Be careful with wen audio. The say they sell pairs but in reality you're only buying one tube. If you buy two pairs of tubes they will only send you two tubes rather than 4 tubes. Paypal won't cover your losses either. 

 I bought 4 M8100s from them but only received two and one of them turned out to be defective... Buy directly from ebay if you can because at least paypal will give you some protection that way.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Hey how do you guys think the DV332 would sound with the ATH W5000 (40 ohm), I just bought a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DV332 supposedly excels with higher impedance cans...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey how do you guys think the DV332 would sound with the ATH W5000 (40 ohm), I just bought a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The DV332 supposedly excels with higher impedance cans..._

 

It sounds very good with the AD2000s - though, better with the Senns.


----------



## russman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fetalgoat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be careful with wen audio. The say they sell pairs but in reality you're only buying one tube. If you buy two pairs of tubes they will only send you two tubes rather than 4 tubes. Paypal won't cover your losses either. 

 I bought 4 M8100s from them but only received two and one of them turned out to be defective... Buy directly from ebay if you can because at least paypal will give you some protection that way._

 

Thats sad.. i havent place any orders yet, luckily was about to.. theres an option for me to put quantity.. 4 that adds up to usd44. 

 Thanks for the warning though.


----------



## russman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are plenty of good sellers on E-Bay who sell the ULYANOVSK 6S19P. Try these, Russman:

6S19P-V Russian Audiophile Tube. Lot of 4 pcs. on eBay, also Vacuum Tubes, Tubes, Vintage Electronics, Consumer Electronics (end time 24-Mar-08 22:31:34 GMT)_

 

Thanks mate, managed to find these.. now just waiting for the mullard.. looking for options. Since wen audio is not a good choice. Will try the link by dreamwhisper.


----------



## bada bing

I've got a bunch of NOS Uly s19p-b and no Svets. Anyone willing to trade a pair of svets for 4 NOS Uly's could p.m.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I actually have two 332's now and I'm thinking about combining them to run balanced. I don't suppose anyone has any experience trying that with 332's or any other chinese tube amp ?


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got a bunch of NOS Uly s19p-b and no Svets. Anyone willing to trade a pair of svets for 4 NOS Uly's could p.m.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I actually have two 332's now and I'm thinking about combining them to run balanced. I don't suppose anyone has any experience trying that with 332's or any other chinese tube amp ?_

 

Fitz has modded two DV 336 into a balanced amp. Not sure if he still owns it though.


----------



## Kataklystik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fetalgoat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Be careful with wen audio. The say they sell pairs but in reality you're only buying one tube. If you buy two pairs of tubes they will only send you two tubes rather than 4 tubes. Paypal won't cover your losses either. 

 I bought 4 M8100s from them but only received two and one of them turned out to be defective... Buy directly from ebay if you can because at least paypal will give you some protection that way._

 

I'm really sorry to hear that man. I ordered 4 and I got 4 and everything was alright, all 4 tubes are doing their job right now and work absolutely fine.
 Maybe it was a misunderstanding? Did you contact wen audio and try to get a refund or a replacement?


----------



## russman

Has anyone bought from this guy before? Im still thinking should i get from wen Audio or from ebay.. whichever is safer. I dont have a paypal acc, only credit card. Please advice?


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *russman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone bought from this guy before? Im still thinking should i get from wen Audio or from ebay.. whichever is safer. I dont have a paypal acc, only credit card. Please advice?_

 

...you should get a PayPal account


----------



## mchang

I'm planning on calling him later today to get a few more WE403Bs.

 I'll let everyone know how it goes.


----------



## Zodduska

avoid musicpartsplus1 on ebay. I won an auction for 2 "Amp Tube 5654/6AK5W PENTODE SHARP CUTOFF MULLARD CV4010" and after a two week delay before shipping they finally sent out one used GE 6AK5 and one Westinghouse 6AK5. They said it was a mistake so I have returned the tubes and am currently awaiting a refund. 

 I bought 2 from the wen website so I'll report back when they get here, I didnt notice any confusing wording about pairs when ordering.


----------



## mchang

Just called Vacuum Tubes Inc. and placed an order for two WE403B tubes. Not the friendliest person on the phone, but very professional and quick. No up-sell. No questioning of what I ordered. Just "uh huh, name and address please."

 Just under $25 including shipping. Was told it will ship priority tomorrow.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just called Vacuum Tubes Inc. and placed an order for two WE403B tubes. Not the friendliest person on the phone, but very professional and quick. No up-sell. No questioning of what I ordered. Just "uh huh, name and address please."

 Just under $25 including shipping. Was told it will ship priority tomorrow._

 

Great!
 I totally forgot about contacting them by phone!
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 EDIT:Their website has changed significantly in the last few days,
 this must have something to do with their email being screwy.


----------



## dreamwhisper

my DV332 arrived here today,
 For some reason I'm finding the overall soundfrom my DV332 & my comp's soundcard (a generic stock Dell model from 2 years ago) better than my Corda Aria (Solid state) and it's DAC.
 so far the DV332 alone fed my computer's headphone out sounds the best of heard out of my HD650's to date. This is with the DV332 stock tubes.
 The Sennheiser sound is definitely still hella dark but is more full & musical, drawing me in more. (as compared with my Aria - SS) 
 The veil is still there but it blends into the overall fullness of the sound and I notice it as part of a darker sound instead of an impediment to hearing the music. (the veil was much more agressive with my Aria)

 My DT880's have improved, no longer bright and with a massive vibrant soundstage. Their bass has improved and is almost as loud and dominant as the bass of the HD650's, however it's more conservative. (really the headphone in general is conservative & detailed) The DT880 had obsessive clarity and forward sound out of my Corda Aria and now has much more musicality, becoming more laid back, intimate and liquid, however not with any of the same _magical_ liquid sound that the HD650's offer.
 The DT880's sounded better out of the Corda Aria than the HD650's. With the DV332 both headphones sound better and I'm more attracted to the alluring sound of the HD-650's than the DT880's (which still hold their ground harrd with a meticulously sweet midrange and the ultimate in bass control and extension)
 Both headphones seem extend well into 
 higher frequency, however the DT880's loses a little fullness of sound in this range, sounding more brittle there than the HD650's. This and the alien abstract sound stage create for the DT880's a sound that is detached and incidentally slightly clinical. (not anywhere near as clinical as they were with my Aria)
 The fullness of sound in the bass and highs of the DT880's have improved considerably with the DV332 compared to my Aria, especially the bass end. Meanwhile the HD650's maintain their alluring generous and lively (albeit dark atm) sound all throughout their range which draws me in completely.

 I can tell that both headphones are lacking in speed, detail/ resolution and airiness which I attribute this to my stock computer soundcard that isn't doing my FLAC files any justice. With both headphones there is a lack of airiness and resolution most noticable in the mids/highs as well as in the soundstage/ambience. The Aria+DAC was better in this regard. Both headphones are loving the driving power of the DV332 and have much more fullness of sound which is particularly noticeable atm in the bass end.

 I'll tell you guys how everything improves with my DAC upgrade.
 I'll compare the output from my Emu-0404 to the output from my EDC-1.
 I'll also tell you guys what I think about my next tubes as well as how everything sounds with a Zu Mobius V1 cable.
 If you're lucky I'll tell you how my ATH-W5000s sound amidst all of this madness.

 EDIT:btw the DV332 is one hell of a nice handwarmer!

 EDIT2: After 24 hours burn-in the stock tubes have slightly improved with detail/resolution & even airiness, which was unexpected. I need more tho!

 pz!


----------



## Godkin

Nice review, Dreamwhisper. Keep us updated about tubes and other developments.


----------



## mchang

My WE403Bs arrived today. Not that it's an ideal indicator, but the tube boxes were much better preserved than my Ebay tubes. Shipping packaging was rock solid, too. If I had to do over again, I would definitely have gone this route instead of Ebay the first time. Cheaper, easier and seemingly better product. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just called Vacuum Tubes Inc. and placed an order for two WE403B tubes. Not the friendliest person on the phone, but very professional and quick. No up-sell. No questioning of what I ordered. Just "uh huh, name and address please."

 Just under $25 including shipping. Was told it will ship priority tomorrow._


----------



## FrankWong

Has anyone bought from this ebay store?

eBay Store - Yen Audio: Darkvoice 332 Upgrade Tubes: Amperex NOS 5654 Tube Little Dot Amp EF95 Matched Pair


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FrankWong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone bought from this ebay store?

eBay Store - Yen Audio: Darkvoice 332 Upgrade Tubes: Amperex NOS 5654 Tube Little Dot Amp EF95 Matched Pair_

 

no, but there prices are very high - you can find better tubes (or at least tried and true great sounding tubes) for cheaper elsewhere. I haven't heard anything about Amperex tubes, but to me it isn't worth the cash.


----------



## Godkin

Haven't used them, Frank, but they seem OK. You will always pay more for Amperex tubes - quite rare and highly sought after.


----------



## omegaman

Whats the difference between the WE 403a and 403b. I have just switched from the b's and the a's seem a more detailed, Is it just my imagination or has anyone else found this.


----------



## Godkin

The 403B is a better quality version of the 403A - it also has a lower operating voltage and a longer life-span. Haven't tried the 403As, but the 403Bs are one of my favorite tubes, though they're definately not for the bass-heads amongst us.


----------



## bada bing

I've only tried the Western Electric brand of 403A & 403B and only one pair of the 403B. They are both favorites and very close in presentation. They are a touch clearer and harder edged than M8100's. I think I prefer one of my sets of 403A's the most, but it's close to a toss up. My favorites, of what I've heard, are WE403A/B & Mullard M8100.

 So far, I would say that all of the non-commie tubes were close in sound, very little difference. I'd list them from clearest to most liquid as:
 WE403A
 WE403B
 Sylvania green label
 GE
 Mullard M8100
 RCA

 Soviet tubes are punchier and less precise, they don't really fit in the line up above. Still worth trying but not a favorite. 

 The chinese tubes are junk, as everyone knows. They make the music sound crunchy, like the vocalist is eating crackers.

 I'd really like to hear sylvania gold pins, but I'm not paying the prices I've seen lately. If they are at the top of the list, they most likely aren't ahead by much. The differences in good tubes are so slight it could be imagination.

 I find tube rolling posts good entertainment. As people try more tubes, I'd like to hear their opinions and comparisons.


----------



## Godkin

I find the WE 403Bs leaner with better clarity then other pentodes of that class. I'm running a pair of RAYTHEON CK5654s at the moment and, like the M8100s, they sound rather "bloated" in comparison: this is not to say thay sound bad - far from it - but the sound is definately fuller, warmer, more euphonic. 

 Bass performance, however, is the 403Bs Achilles heel - it's very light. But I'm not a "bass-head" so it's not a problem. The clarity makes me forgive them everything.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_By the way, I just saw that they have some Mullards for $4.75/tube at: 

Antique Electronic Supply

 They are listed as: "5654/6AK5W - PENTODE, SHARP CUTOFF, RF, MULLARD LABELED CV4010." The picture of the tube has "Mullard M8100" on it. You could call/email them to find out more._

 

I just got received 4 of these in the mail from tubesandmore. They are labelled Mullard M8100. Looks like a good deal to me. They also packaged each tube with a plastic holder for the pins. I've just fired them up, but upon turning on the amp, there was bright glow at the base of each of the M8100's that faded very quickly. Is this normal for the M8100? The amp seems to be working fine though.


----------



## Godkin

Yes, this can happen - especially in a old tube that's hasn't been powered up in a while. It's totally normal.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, this can happen - especially in a old tube that's hasn't been powered up in a while. It's totally normal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Cool. I wish it would happen every time I turn the amp on then.


----------



## JungleMan

Question for everyone...

 I had some ground loop hum which I noticed in the past few days. I installed a cheater plug (3-to-2 converter) and it totally solved the problem. Is it okay to use one of these on a permanent basis, or does the amp really need to be grounded (which would mean I need to pursue another option to solve the ground loop hum)?

 Thanks.


----------



## Godkin

Had the same thing happen to me, Jellojoe. I fitted a pair of THRONIX 6GV8s into my DV FIGARO, switched it on and nothing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then suddenly fireworks: the tube glowed REALLY brightly and then dimmed to normal levels. PHEW!!!


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Had the same thing happen to me, Jellojoe. I fitted a pair of THRONIX 6GV8s into my DV FIGARO, switched it on and nothing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then suddenly fireworks: the tube glowed REALLY brightly and then dimmed to normal levels. PHEW!!!_

 

It happened again today. I turned it on in the dark so it was even more impressive this time.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Update: The Svetlana 6S19P-B(V)'s add oodles of sound stage and are more juicy than the stock 'big' tubes. They sacrifice a tiny bit of the stock bass boost in favor of a more flat response, and sacrifice detail/precision for a more euphonic and lively sound which I like better.
 I think I can hear the hint of more potential which I'd like to explore with the new small 'tubes' coming. (right now I'm still using the chinese 'small' tubes) 

 Oh I saw that really bright glowing tube, but it happened when I turned my DV332 off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hmmm
 For the first 8 hours I heard humming through the headphones, now I get the occasional pop sound thru headphones, I think it's the tubes burning in, it seems like a progression.
 Update2: the tubes aren't making any noise after 18 hours of burn-in, and no more bright tubes either.


----------



## Godkin

I love the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs, Dreamwhisper. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pair them a set of WE 403Bs and it's a match made in heaven.


----------



## bada bing

Can you tell the difference between Svets and Ulys ? How would you describe the difference ?


----------



## Godkin

The SVETLANAs and the ULYANOVSK made tubes are not totally different, but they do have their own sound signatures: the SVETs are warmer, more euphonic, and possess a bigger soundstage, while the ULYs are leaner and have better separation.


----------



## mybeat

Do your darkvoice hum?
 When I raise volume more than 1/4, it starts to hum.
 It's not very noticable, but when volume is at 1/2 it's disturbing.Or is it normal?
 I've changed tubes to ully's and mullard cv4010, and it's still there.
 In this case do headphones matter?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do your darkvoice hum?
 When I raise volume more than 1/4, it starts to hum.
 It's not very noticable, but when volume is at 1/2 it's disturbing.Or is it normal?
 I've changed tubes to ully's and mullard cv4010, and it's still there.
 In this case do headphones matter?_

 

No hum at any volume with mine.

 If you've changed all the tubes in all the sockets, then it would seem that it's not in the tubes.

 Might be "ground loop" hum. Though I don't think it increases with volume - don't know. You can check for it by getting an adapter plug for your power cable and attaching it before you plug it into your power source. Though... I don't know what type of power cable plugs you have in Estonia? You'll have to check with someone locally (e.g. hardware store, or electrical shop, or whatever).

 Other than that... I suppose it could be the quality of the power - you might try a "power center" of some type to "clean the power" to your equipment.

 If you've swaped out your source with another to make sure its not in your source... and... if its none of the above... it may be coming from a component in your amp? I'd probably take it to an electrical repair shop to have them check it out - probably cost you a small amount. Obtain an estimate to repair it. If that's less than returning it to Darkvoice for repair - then you can have it repaired locally. The shipping cost is the "great equalizer" - since it may cost you $80+ dollars to ship it back to Darkvoice. As long as the repair is less than the return shipping cost - it's probably better to have it repaired locally.


----------



## mybeat

Thank you Gradofan2 
 The problem was with a microphone plugged in my xi-fi.When i removed it the hum went away.


----------



## onlychild

Wow, 121 pages. Only took me 2 days to read it all, but now I just ordered the DV332 from Jasmine to go with my HD650s. Can't wait!!!!

 I also got a Keces USB DAC yesterday (DA-151) and should get here around the same time as the DV332. I know people were asking about an inexpensive DAC. You should check out the Keces DA-151 going for $250. Review here : 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...s-burn-297021/


*Had a quick question for Gradofan2 (or anyone else that can shed some light): 
*

 I saw your link for the silver interconnects, but I am someone who loves the warmer, lusher sound over the analytical one. Do you think I might be better off getting all copper ICs instead of the all silver ones?

 Also, would you agree that for me to obtain the warmest and lushest sound with the most bass, that I should go with the Mullard 8100s and Svetlanas. I do not mind if they take away from the higher frequencies. I absolutely can not stand harsh highs.


 Thanks for the great read guys.


----------



## mchang

A few interesting developments with my DV332:

 - got my new pair of WE403B. My old pair definitely had a constant whine. The new ones eliminated this.
 - however, I still get intermittent whine. When I tap the amp or tubes it goes away. The last time, tapping one of the Svets stopped it.
 - after reading this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/any...79/index3.html), I decided to check out Herbies dampers. The hope is that they will cure the intermittent whine. Any positive changes in SQ is gravy. Otherwise, I'll return or sell to another Head-fier.
 - another thought is that I need to clean the contacts on my swapped tubes.
 - in anticipation of my Herbies arrival, I removed the stock tube covers. I took a listen with them off and definitely heard a buzz/hum. After some testing, I realized that it was my Airport Express causing the problem (my AE sits underneath my DV, about 6 inches below with a wooden shelf between). Covers back on, no buzz. Covers off, buzz. And the buzz only came during the computer delay when I hit Play and the music started playing.
 - Solution? I thought this was quite ingenious. A piece of aluminum foil folded to the size of the DV and placed under (between DV and shelf). No more buzz!
 - FYI: I still have cheater plugs on my DV and OMZ DAC.

 I detail all of this not to suggest a faulty amp or suggest against anyone else's purchase. I really love the sound out of the DV, and am willing to do these little gyrations to eliminate any final barriers to bliss. And maybe a future owner will have a AE too close and a piece of foil can help...

 Best-case scenario: The Herbies will fix the occasional whine (and possibly improve sound). Keep the foil. Remove the cheater plugs. Tubes are clean. Bliss.

 Worst-case scenario: Herbies go back. Keep the foil. Keep cheaters. Clean tubes. Occasionally have to tap a Svet to eliminate whine. 99% near bliss.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *onlychild* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, 121 pages. Only took me 2 days to read it all, but now I just ordered the DV332 from Jasmine to go with my HD650s. Can't wait!!!!

 I also got a Keces USB DAC yesterday (DA-151) and should get here around the same time as the DV332. I know people were asking about an inexpensive DAC. You should check out the Keces DA-151 going for $250. Review here : 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...s-burn-297021/


*Had a quick question for Gradofan2 (or anyone else that can shed some light): 
*

 I saw your link for the silver interconnects, but I am someone who loves the warmer, lusher sound over the analytical one. Do you think I might be better off getting all copper ICs instead of the all silver ones?

 Also, would you agree that for me to obtain the warmest and lushest sound with the most bass, that I should go with the Mullard 8100s and Svetlanas. I do not mind if they take away from the higher frequencies. I absolutely can not stand harsh highs.


 Thanks for the great read guys._

 

The CT Silver cables aren't excessively harsh, or strident - as some silver cables reportedly are.

 Though, I suspect some good copper cables would sound warmer. 

 I just love the clarity and detail of these cables - especially with Senns. If you're using other phones (e.g. Grados, ATs, etc.), the copper may be fine.


----------



## dreamwhisper

i ordered some mullards from Antique Electronic Supply

 and they arrived today, except they say they are National Eletronics 5654/6AK5W, made in Illinois...

 Are these similar to mullards at all??

 As soon as I plugged them in, I got a loud hum on the right side when volume is at zero, I didn't have ground loop issues before so I don't think it's that.
 I'm going to swap tubes.. (I ordered 4 tubes)

 Tubes swapped and this time the hum is in the opposite channel
 so 2 good tubes and 2 bad tubes
 lol 
 Tubes swapped again and now all 4 have hum
 I'm going to leave them on overnight and see if anything changes
 btw this isn't the same hum i experienced with the svetlanas. that hum was at a much lower volume

 Does the DV332 have a pair of tubes for each channel of audio?
 It must..


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i ordered some mullards from Antique Electronic Supply

 and they arrived today, except they say they are National Eletronics 5654/6AK5W, made in Illinois...

 Are these similar to mullards at all??_

 

I'm not sure - 6AK5*W* - the "w" in the designation indicates a ruggedized tube. Mullards are also ruggedized, only made in Britain with a slightly different internal design. So far my tube rolling indicates probably no, they are not the same, although I don't have any National Electronics branded tubes 6AK5W's. I do have some sylvania 6AK5W's. They are nice tubes, but are not identical to Mullards.

 "Mullards" for the DV332 means (IMO) Mullard branded M8100 & CV4010 that share the "mullard" sound - lush & warm, with slightly rolled off highs and very slightly smeared detail . They are distinct in sound from USA branded tubes. Mullards are my 2nd favorite so far even though their sound signiture is much different from my current favorite - Western Electric 403 

 Dream whisperer - have you had a chance to pop the Soviet drivers in and give them a listen yet ?


----------



## Godkin

As Bada Bing says the "W" designates a ruggedised tube, usually for military purposes. The M8100s and CV4010s are ruggedised, long life versions of the EF95. The 5654 is a "special" version of the 6AK5, again usually for military purposes.

 The 6AK5W and 5654 are US designated tubes while the E95, M8100 and CV4010 use the European coding. They all have different plate and filament designs, but they all belong to the same class of signal amplifing pentodes.


----------



## DennyL

As a person who knows practically nothing about it I take it that we mustn't assume that ruggedized = better for audio. Ruggedized could mean a similar plate configuration with extra supports of the internal structure of the valve to protect it from vibration and shock, or it could mean a completely different internal design. I don't know.


----------



## Godkin

As you say, DennyL, the ruggedised versions are simply better made because they are employed in military applications, ie black-plates to prevent corrison etc. But generally the ruggedised versions do sound better.


----------



## Gradofan2

I've read all the posts re: the WE 403B's, and their clarity and detail, but weak bass.

 But... I've become enamored with the bass and mids of the Tung Sols, which also have good clarity and detail. 

 Is the bass of the WE 403B's a lot weaker, and do they sound a bit too lean compared to the Tung Sols, RCAs and Mullards?


----------



## dreamwhisper

I received an e-mail back from http://www.tubesandmore.com/:

 Hello,

 I'm sorry, we will send Mullard CV4010 QTY:4 tubes at no charge. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 Thanks,

 bada bing:
 If by soviet drivers you mean the Svetlana 6S19P-Bs, my impressions are on pg.120. 
 I had mixed feelings, but in the end it's really hard for me to say because atm I'm running directly out of my computer's headphone out and I haven't heard many other tubes.


----------



## Godkin

The 403Bs bass is weaker than the likes of MULLARDS, TUNG-SOLS and RAYTHEONs - but not massively so. I suspect that some bassheads would find that weakness annoying after a while.


----------



## bobas01

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just curious... 

 ... how do we know "Jasmine" is a female?

 Isn't that just a business name? 

 Isn't it possible... Jasmine... is actually a business... staffed primarily by males?

 If so... shouldn't we... refer to "Jasmine" as a business entity... and... and not "gender specific?'' 

 "I mean... I'm just sayin'."


 Jasmine... if you're out there... can you clear this up?_

 

Jasmine is a man. I asked him of this in one of my e-mails. 

 Two days ago I received my Darkvoice at last. The delivery was delayed and no one knew what had happened with the parcel.

 One thing I’m obliged to say. If anyone is planning to buy Darkvoice Jasmine is perfect choice. He takes care of a customer even the one from a bit exotic country for Chinese like Poland. I think that thanks to his claims to the courier (Welcome to Leopards) the parcel was delivered in the end.

 By the way, does someone know Darkvoice schematic diagram?

 Thanks in advance,
 Bobas01


----------



## Godkin

Welcome along, Bobas01.


----------



## onlychild

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can see where all this is going. What started out as an innocent HD650 purchase, is now turning into an unstoppable train of "must-upgrade-the-weakest-link" purchases! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now off to look for a second and third job! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I just had to post this quote again by nor_spoon. 

 Stole the words right out of my mouth.


----------



## nor_spoon

Hehe! Life is rough


----------



## magnetiq

hey guys, i've skimmed through the thread and tried searching, but i wanted to ask to make sure:

 what do you think the best tubes all-round? or best ones for deep bass?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, i've skimmed through the thread and tried searching, but i wanted to ask to make sure:

 what do you think the best tubes all-round? or best ones for deep bass?_

 

I think the Mullard M8100's has better definition in the bass than the WE403B's. The Mullards also sounds more natural with voices IMO.


----------



## Godkin

I second Nor Spoon's recommendation of the M8100s or CV4010s. You may also like to try the TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws and RAYTHEON CK5654s.


----------



## onlychild

Hello Godkin, 

 Where can I buy the Tung-Sols or Raytheon's. 

 I could not find them on Ebay


----------



## Godkin

The TUNG-SOLs are VERY rare, OnlyChild. The odd pair comes up for auction on E-Bay. If you want a pair of the CK5654s, I have two spares. PM me if interested.


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hey guys, i've skimmed through the thread and tried searching, but i wanted to ask to make sure:

 what do you think the best tubes all-round? or best ones for deep bass?_

 

For bass, I usually go for the Tung-Sol 6AK5W's although I think the M8100 are a close second. Between the two, I prefer the K701 out of the M8100 than the Tung-Sol. I actually didn't like the WE403B that much. They sounded a bit thin to me, probably just poor synergy.


----------



## Zodduska

Is it just me or does anyone else tend to want to listen to their 332-650 combo at a pretty high volume? My 650s are bone stock and sound very good with the 332 at eight o'clock, at nine they sound amazing, ten they are fraking mind-blowing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 they really open up between 9 and 10 but it's really way way too loud, if i take them off and hang them up at that level im still enjoying them quite a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Current set of tubes are Svets and WE403Bs 

 I figure a lot of this has to do with the quality of the POT and I'm planning on upgrading it in the future but I dont have any electronics DIY experience per se, if anyone has any good links I would appreciate it.

 as a side note the CS has fairly high voltage outputs so this POT reference may not be accurate for others.


----------



## laxx

I needs to get a pair of M8100's...


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laxx* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I needs to get a pair of M8100's..._

 

Even better would be get a pair of K501 for your DV332.


----------



## Godkin

The 332 has a pretty cheap pot. If the FIGARO is anything to go by, it's probably a carbon type - 100k perhaps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Whipping that out would be a worth while upgrade.

 In my opinion, the HD650s have to be driven hard. At lower volumes they can sound a bit soft and bland.


----------



## bada bing

The pot in the DV332 is indeed a cheap carbon type 100K
 What is a bit different is that it is a linear taper, rather than audio taper. The pot is the #1 bang for the $ mod on the DV332. An Alps 100k blue velvet is a good upgrade. Not only is it noticeably better sound, but the action of an audio taper pot is much handier.


----------



## miky

I have Mullard 5654, Western Electric 403B, Telefunken CV 4010, Tung-Sol JTL 5654/6AK5W. My preferred (for now) is a Telefunken CV 4010.


----------



## magnetiq

got mullard cv4010s and uly 6S19P-V (stated as -B too, said military so i got it, meh) 

 just waiting to see if my offer was accepted from Jasmine..


----------



## Godkin

Telefunken are great tubes, Milky. Haven't tried the CV4010s but I have a pair of ECL85s running in my DV Figaro and they sound fantastic.


----------



## oldson

would this amp sound good with closed cans , as in my at ath-a900's?


----------



## fateicon

how does one go about upgrading the pot?


----------



## Zodduska

a matched pair of CV4010's arrived from Wen audio yesterday( Wen Audio (Vacuum tubes for sale)(¦U¦¡¯uªÅºÞ) took 8 days standard shipping from Taiwan not bad), also arrived were some Herbie's teflon HAL-O dampeners which I installed at the same time as the tubes, after about 24 hours of burn-in my impressions of the 4010s are that they seem more detailed and analytical compared to the 403B's.. bass is a bit leaner to my ears too, though i havent tried to isolate the effect of the dampeners yet so keep in mind this impression combines both the tubes and the HAL-Os.

 __________
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 has a pretty cheap pot. If the FIGARO is anything to go by, it's probably a carbon type - 100k perhaps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Whipping that out would be a worth while upgrade.

 In my opinion, the HD650s have to be driven hard. At lower volumes they can sound a bit soft and bland._

 

Agreed, though I am a bit weary of long term effects on my hearing when driving the HD650s hard, I try to keep these sessions short.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fateicon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how does one go about upgrading the pot?_

 

I would be really interested in any help here as well.


----------



## dreamwhisper

So I neglected to mention in my posts about my impressions of my rig that I have been listening to music at a lower volume. 
 I cranked it up today and I heard what Zodduska is talking about, the sound of the HD650s opens up immensely..
 but I couldn't possibly listen to music at this volume continuously

 At a similar volume the DT880s crap out, getting their brightness and shrill back with a vengeance

 Btw, I've upgraded my soundcard/DAC to an EMU 0404 and there is so much more body of sound, more detail and dynamics. Sound has improved drastically.
 dAmn, the HD650's are magical.


----------



## omegaman

What's anyones thought on the best tubes to go with AKG 701's. I have just treated myself to a pair. 

 I know there is a bit of love/hate with the 701/332 combo, but for all you lovers out there what do you recommend ?


----------



## magnetiq

who's the one selling their 332 on ebay? i recognise the photo used from this thread.

 arrggh, if only i waited one day i would have bought it, i just ordered a brand new one from jasmine lol!


----------



## Godkin

The effect of the HAL-O dampers on the 332 was the leaner, tighter bass. This may not be to everyone taste, but overall they have a postive influence on the sound.


----------



## Scottyyy

Does anyone know what dimensions the 332 is?


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know what dimensions the 332 is?_

 

Approx 30L x 18W x 13H

 Glad you jumped on the info you won't regret it. If you want to sell a couple of those mullard tubes when yours arrives give me a shout.


----------



## Scottyyy

Thanks. Looks like it will fit on my desk then. (assuming your measurements are in cm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Sure. I'm completely clueless about tubes though - I'd never even heard of them before I came here. I'm not sure how much they're worth or anything like that.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The effect of the HAL-O dampers on the 332 was the leaner, tighter bass. This may not be to everyone taste, but overall they have a postive influence on the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Yep, that's what I found too when I experimented with positioning a bit last night. I started off with them in the center of the tubes and slid them up to the top which lessened their effect and seems to be real nice sweet spot.


----------



## mchang

Turned out that two of my four Svets were the cause of most/all of my problems. I have two different ones in (last two), Herbies are on (but I doubt they are helping reduce buzzing/whining), cheater plugs are off, Airport Express moved about a 8-12" farther away, foil removed. Been listening quite a bit this weekend, and even in the quietest sections of music -- or when paused -- there is no buzz or whine.

 I am officially 100% happy and loving the Darkvoice 332! I better get out of Head-Fi while I can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Best-case scenario: The Herbies will fix the occasional whine (and possibly improve sound). Keep the foil. Remove the cheater plugs. Tubes are clean. Bliss.

 Worst-case scenario: Herbies go back. Keep the foil. Keep cheaters. Clean tubes. Occasionally have to tap a Svet to eliminate whine. 99% near bliss._


----------



## shellylh

I am thrilled to hear that my DV332 is finally giving you the bliss that you deserve! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Congratulations!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turned out that two of my four Svets were the cause of most/all of my problems. I have two different ones in (last two), Herbies are on (but I doubt they are helping reduce buzzing/whining), cheater plugs are off, Airport Express moved about a 8-12" farther away, foil removed. Been listening quite a bit this weekend, and even in the quietest sections of music -- or when paused -- there is no buzz or whine.

 I am officially 100% happy and loving the Darkvoice 332! I better get out of Head-Fi while I can. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Ash

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who's the one selling their 332 on ebay? i recognise the photo used from this thread.

 arrggh, if only i waited one day i would have bought it, i just ordered a brand new one from jasmine lol!_

 

kind of a lame question... where can a buy a DV amp from the authorised reseller?


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_who's the one selling their 332 on ebay? i recognise the photo used from this thread.

 arrggh, if only i waited one day i would have bought it, i just ordered a brand new one from jasmine lol!_

 

It was I. Needed some money quickly as I just pulled the Ebay trigger on a an "as new" fluke 189 dmm. New tools needed as I have several projects in the pipeline this summer, a PPA V 2 and a CK3. A drill that drills round holes would be nice!!

 Wish I could hang onto the DV332 as well though as it really makes rock / metal sound awesome. Especially so with the WE403B and Uly tubes. Really communicates vocals nicely!!

 I also have 3 Ericson LM 403b tubes on the way for the lucky winner to try.

 I will say that Scott should get a Variac off Ebay in order to make the DV332 run cooler on UK voltage (should slightly prolong tube life and may further improve the sound quality).


----------



## mchang

Thanks! It's been a learning experience for sure, but very worth it. I can see myself happy for quite a while.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shellylh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am thrilled to hear that my DV332 is finally giving you the bliss that you deserve! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Congratulations!_


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was I. Needed some money quickly as I just pulled the Ebay trigger on a an "as new" fluke 189 dmm. New tools needed as I have several projects in the pipeline this summer, a PPA V 2 and a CK3. A drill that drills round holes would be nice!!

 Wish I could hang onto the DV332 as well though as it really makes rock / metal sound awesome. Especially so with the WE403B and Uly tubes. Really communicates vocals nicely!!

 I also have 3 Ericson LM 403b tubes on the way for the lucky winner to try.

 I will say that Scott should get a Variac off Ebay in order to make the DV332 run cooler on UK voltage (should slightly prolong tube life and may further improve the sound quality)._

 

Hi mate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Did you manage to ship the amp today? Or are you waiting for those tubes to come in?

 I don't mind if you ship the amp without those extra tubes, I want to try it out as quickly as possible.


----------



## onlychild

Just received my 332 today from Ebay seller Jasmine, but I have a felling it is used. There are a lot of scratches and scuffs on the left side of the amp, some minor scratches and nicks on top, and two scratches on the front of the unit. I doubt this happened during shipment since the whole amp was packaged well and there was nothing for it to scratch up against. 

 Can other people who bought their 332s from Jasmine please let me know if the unit they got was scratch free?

 The amp works, but it bothers me that I paid full price for a new amp but believe I might have received a used one.


----------



## nor_spoon

Wow! That is weird. I would email jasmine about it.


----------



## onlychild

I just sent Jasmine an email. Lets see what he says. 

 There is also a screw missing on the bottom of the amp next to one of the legs.


----------



## omegaman

This is the first time I have heard somebody not 100% happy with Jasmine.

 I hope he sorts it out !!!!!!!!


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What's anyones thought on the best tubes to go with AKG 701's. I have just treated myself to a pair. 

 I know there is a bit of love/hate with the 701/332 combo, but for all you lovers out there what do you recommend ?_

 

Any advice on this for me anybody. cheers


----------



## Scottyyy

Just got my 332. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Haven't used it yet as I'm confused by all these tubes I have. I have 6 tubes, and 4 already in the amp. I dunno what's the best combination. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How do I take the tubes out of the amp by the way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit: I've just turned it on, and I'm hearing a static sound in the background. It's not consistent, it's like a rumbling that gets louder and quieter all the time. Could this be down to the poor cable I'm using to connect the EMU to the DV? It's a cheap, standard RCA cable (quite a long one too) with a 1/8" adapter to connect to the EMU.


----------



## mybeat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *onlychild* 
_Can other people who bought their 332s from Jasmine please let me know if the unit they got was scratch free?_

 

Mine is scrath free, i bought from Jasmine.I haven't looked that close though, but there aren't any noticeable.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* 
_How do I take the tubes out of the amp by the way._

 

After you remove tube dampers just shake em a little from left to right but not to much and pull up.


----------



## Scottyyy

Thanks.

 The two small ones are Western Electric 403B and the two big ones are 6C19N-B (that's what it says on the tubes anyway). Are these good? 

 I also have lots of Valve Electronic CV4010. Are they better than the 403B's?

 Also, I'm supposed to keep the tube dampers on aren't I? When using it I mean. I heard they reduce heat.

 Sorry, I'm completely clueless when it comes to tubes.


----------



## onlychild

I noticed more scratches on the unit last night. There are scratches on the volume knob and more on the front panel that I didn't see before. This is really starting to make me believe that the unit was used before. 

 The good news is that it sounds incredible with the HD650s and I have no buzzing or humming issues.


----------



## nor_spoon

That is good news, but it still sounds like its used. I am sure Jasmine will take care of it in a good manner. I mean, a seller could get 100 positive feedbacks, but it's often the one complaint that potential buyers hang on to, and that could make all the difference.


----------



## bOUddha

I bought mine from someone other than Jasmine, and it had scratches too! Minor, to be sure, but quite noticeable. I also remembered that it spent some several days being opened and inspected by customs agents, and my guess is that the dirty gloves on disinterested hands was the likely cause for the abuse.

 I doubt seriously that any seller with jasmine's reputation would sell/ship a used amp...


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I doubt seriously that any seller with jasmine's reputation would sell/ship a used amp..._

 

Could be a mistake, maybe a return or something that got mixed up.


----------



## onlychild

I am thinking the same thing. Jasmine seems to have a good reputation. I am sure he did not do it to rip me off.

 On a side note : Wow, I have never heard the HD650s sound so good. I really do like the warm sound of tube amps over SS amps.


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks.

 The two small ones are Western Electric 403B and the two big ones are 6C19N-B (that's what it says on the tubes anyway). Are these good? 

 I also have lots of Valve Electronic CV4010. Are they better than the 403B's?

 Also, I'm supposed to keep the tube dampers on aren't I? When using it I mean. I heard they reduce heat.

 Sorry, I'm completely clueless when it comes to tubes._

 

Scottyyy,

 The e-bay ad said the 403's were slightly microphonic so swap them for the CV4010 and see if the hum goes away. ( are those the mullard ones ? )

 You don't have to keep the covers on either. I love the glow of the tubes. 

 You should have some different ones of the bigger tubes 6S19P-Vs. Give them a try.

 A lot of the fun comes from trying different tubes.


----------



## magnetiq

jasmine ran out of 240v versions so he's giving me a 'gift' for my patience, i wonder what it is xD


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jasmine ran out of 240v versions so he's giving me a 'gift' for my patience, i wonder what it is xD_

 

a 337 ?


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

When getting Mullard tubes like the CV4010, make sure that they have the Mullard logo printed on them, the ones without do not sound as good as many in the Little Dot forums have discovered.

 - DoA


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When getting Mullard tubes like the CV4010, make sure that they have the Mullard logo printed on them, the ones without do not sound as good as many in the Little Dot forums have discovered.

 - DoA_

 

Yeah. I made a mistake and bought some Australian made CV4010 and they sound quite cold.


----------



## onlychild

Can people please tell me how hot their 332s get after about 4 hours.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *onlychild* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can people please tell me how hot their 332s get after about 4 hours._

 

Very very hot. One of the tube guards actually burnt my finger the second I touched it (left a white mark and it still hurts a little a few hours later :/), I didn't realise they got so hot.


----------



## mchang

Very very hot.


----------



## onlychild

Good, I'm glad I'm not the only one.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Yeah I would never touch the tubes/tube guards
 but the rest of the amp makes for a great hand warmer during cold days..


----------



## AntiGeek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very very hot. One of the tube guards actually burnt my finger the second I touched it (left a white mark and it still hurts a little a few hours later :/), I didn't realise they got so hot._

 

For UK voltages, a variac (variable transformer) could be set to slightly lower the 240v mains voltage to the 220v that the transformer in the DV332 is set to ideally run at.

 With any luck this should serve to let the amp run cooler.

 Plenty available on Ebay


----------



## leng jai

Just ordered these tubes from a fellow headfi-er:

 4x SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs
 2x ULYANOVSK made 6S19P-Vs
 4x Western Electric 403B
 1x GE 6AK5W

 Not sure what they sound like but my stock ones were causing a slight buzz in my right channel.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AntiGeek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For UK voltages, a variac (variable transformer) could be set to slightly lower the 240v mains voltage to the 220v that the transformer in the DV332 is set to ideally run at.

 With any luck this should serve to let the amp run cooler.

 Plenty available on Ebay
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I had a look for one the first time you suggested it, but your DV332 was already over my budget by quite a lot so I'm out of money at the moment.


----------



## squall343

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *onlychild* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can people please tell me how hot their 332s get after about 4 hours._

 

The tubes is hot

 but the amp outer casing still can be touch even if u run it for a whole day

 considering i am living in a country where everyday is hot


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just ordered these tubes from a fellow headfi-er:

 4x SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs
 2x ULYANOVSK made 6S19P-Vs
 4x Western Electric 403B
 1x GE 6AK5W

 Not sure what they sound like but my stock ones were causing a slight buzz in my right channel._

 

I use the svets and the WE403B, It's a great combo. One of the favorites on this thread.


----------



## Godkin

My favourite too, Omegaman.


----------



## leng jai

Good news for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys. What differences can I expect from the stock tubes?


----------



## mchang

x2 or x3

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the svets and the WE403B, It's a great combo. One of the favorites on this thread._


----------



## onlychild

3 days, 3 e-mails, but still no response from Jasmine on how he wants to handle my situation about receiving what seems like a used amp.

 I really don't want to resolve this through my credit card company since it seems that Jasmine has a very good reputation. 

 I will wait a few more days.


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good news for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks guys. What differences can I expect from the stock tubes?_

 

Lets just say you will be pleasantly surprised, They are better in every department.


----------



## dreamwhisper

EDIT: you guys rock!

 hehe


----------



## onlychild

Godkin was correct. This amp benefits a lot from a upgraded power cable. I won a brand new Zu Birth on Ebay for $45 and I immediately noticed a sound improvement. I did some swap testing with the stock and there is a very noticeable improvement. Soundstage, extension, bass, etc.

 Also, this amp sounds frekin' amazing with my Ulys and 8100s paired with HD650. Much better than the stock Chinese tubes.


----------



## Godkin

The two upgrades I would recommend to any owner of the 332, apart from better tubes, would be a high quality power cord and some tube dampers. The sonic benefits are significant.

 The M8100s and the ULYANOVSKs are a great combo. The richness of the MULLARDs with the precision of the ULYs is, quite simply, perfect. In a way, it's the reverse of the combo I'm running at the moment: the WE403Bs are lean and amazingly clear, which compliment the richness of the SVETLANA 6S19P-Bs like no other tube I've heard.


----------



## mybeat

Godkin could you recommend any tube dumpers?

 Is there anything I should know before changing tubes? 
 like , should it be turned off for some time before changing them or something simmilar to this.I'll be getting 403b's and 8100 in a week and allready have ully's and svets and i want to try different combo's, but i dont wanna break my amp


----------



## Godkin

I can personally recommend the dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab:

Herbie's Audio Lab: Tube Dampers

 Once fitted, they make a noticeable improvement to the sound. There's also a seller on E-Bay who sells them, but can't comment on any benefits they bring.

 There has, to my knowledge, been no reports of problems with changing tubes in the 332 - unlike, say, an amp like the BADA PH-12. But I would leave it for at least an hour between changes - if for nothing else than letting the tubes cool down.


----------



## mybeat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can personally recommend the dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab:

Herbie's Audio Lab: Tube Dampers

 Once fitted, they make a noticeable improvement to the sound. There's also a seller on E-Bay who sells them, but can't comment on any benefits they bring.

 There has, to my knowledge, been no reports of problems with changing tubes in the 332 - unlike, say, an amp like the BADA PH-12. But I would leave it for at least an hour between changes - if for nothing else than letting the tubes cool down._

 

Thanx!


----------



## crewpsu

Hello Everyone,
 I have a question about the prices people have been getting for this amp with the "Submit Best Offer" option in the US. I apologize if this has been mentioned in the thread before but I could not find anything recent (and I'll admit I did not read all 100 plus pages). I don't want to offer to low a bid. Please feel free to PM me if you would rather not post what you payed. Thank you all for your time,

 Kurt

 P.S. If you happen to have one and would like to sell let me know.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can personally recommend the dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab:

Herbie's Audio Lab: Tube Dampers_

 

Seconded, I went with the Teflon HAL-Os in the closeout section as they were almost half the cost and they seem to work fine, size 7 for the smaller tubes and 9 for the larger ones for the 332.

 I also agree about upgrading the power chord mentioned earlier and I'm quite happy with the IRON-LUNG Jellyfish: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ILJPOWER.html

 So far I find myself going back to the Ericsson 403Bs and Svetlana combination for tube choice, I really wanted to like the CV4010s. While the CV4010 are technically the cleanest most neutral tubes to my ears and if going by standards of modifying the signal the least they are by far the "best" though I find them a little sterile for my taste and unsatisfying at lower volumes, they seem to give the 332 an almost solid state sound. To my ears the Ericssons on the other hand have a very holographic and euphonic quality which colors and enhances even poorly recorded music. The WE403B have a similar quality but the Ericssons are just a tad smoother.


----------



## Godkin

A virtue of both the ERICSSON and WE 403Bs is their clarity, which for me is the best of all this type of signal pentode. But a virtue that is rarely mentioned - and Zodduska has rightly brought it up - is their "holographic" qualities. Their soundstage is simply incredible, especially their depth. I love their synergy with the SVETLANAs - the perfect partnership. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The CV4010s do sound more neutral than the M8100s. I thought I was imagining it, after all it supposedly the same tube as the M8100, but your findings seem to confirm my own, Zodduska.


----------



## mchang

I'll also chime in my 2 cents on the WE403B, Svets, Herbie's and Iron Lung power cord. I have all of these additions and am loving the overall sound of my DV332.

 I can't tell you which of the upgrades has contributed which qualities to the sound -- or frankly, if I removed a few, whether I could tell the difference/degradation. No time for analysis, I'm just enjoying the music!

 I am slightly curious if the switch to Ericssons will bring a noticeable improvement...


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A virtue of both the ERICSSON and WE 403Bs is their clarity, which for me is the best of all this type of signal pentode. But a virtue that is rarely mentioned - and Zodduska has rightly brought it up - is their "holographic" qualities. Their soundstage is simply incredible, especially their depth. I love their synergy with the SVETLANAs - the perfect partnership. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The CV4010s do sound more neutral than the M8100s. I thought I was imagining it, after all it supposedly the same tube as the M8100, but your findings seem to confirm my own, Zodduska._

 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about the CV4010 vs M8100.. now I need to get some M8100 grrr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mchang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll also chime in my 2 cents on the WE403B, Svets, Herbie's and Iron Lung power cord. I have all of these additions and am loving the overall sound of my DV332.

 I can't tell you which of the upgrades has contributed which qualities to the sound -- or frankly, if I removed a few, whether I could tell the difference/degradation. No time for analysis, I'm just enjoying the music!

 I am slightly curious if the switch to Ericssons will bring a noticeable improvement..._

 

Nice setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I can tell you that the difference between Ericssons and WE403B is noticeable to my ears, but weather or not it is an improvement is up to yours


----------



## dreamwhisper

Electrocompaniet ECD-1 came today, wowed the **** out of me compared to my EMU-0404 for the first 10 seconds, I almost cried
 MAN this is a musical DAC.

 I listened to it for about an hour with my W5000s, comparing my results to the memory of my HD650's (I sent away their cord to get it modded) 
 anyway
 W5000s + ECD1= the bass returns to these phones like never before.. vengeful bass, the ECD1 must have a bass boost
 ...later on I started hearing the reported ECD-1 scattered highs and I liked and hated it at the same time... I could hear that these slower resolving high notes (scattered isn't the best term for it entirely) attribute lots to the massive soudstage and 'far out' feel of the ECD1. With the W5000s, sometimes they sounded unreal and beautiful, but during the reverb of highs sounding more brittle and detailed as opposed to musical . I think they would smooth out using the HD650's and become sublime...
 EDI: the highs aren't an issue at all with the DT880s
 BUT I'm willing to bet on it which is why I'm selling my DV332 and W5000s to get a balanced Beta 22 built for running HD650s by XLR. (I already have a Zu XLR cable)

 Unreal sound improvement from EMU to ECD1.. easily worth the $800 price difference I paid(I bought i used), and I'm impressed enough to keep this DAC in my system forever.
 However, I hope that the HD650 smooths out the highs somewhat as well as doesn't sound too overpowering in the bass.

 During this session the DV332 was running Uly 6s19p-v and Mullards and I wouldn't even want to use the DV332 without them. With such a musical source like the ECD1, the DV with stock tubes would be a big bottleneck... replacement tubes make a massive difference in the musicality of this amp. However, the ECD1 already sounds tubey with a very full sound and resolution (musicality), which is part of the reason I can tell that the DV332 is no longer needed.

 The W5000 is proving to be a Very source/amp dependent headphone. The highs and lows surrounding the stunning midrange of the W5000s fills in with this DAC/amp combo and ends up sounding like a de-veiled HD650. (though I remember the HD650 having a lot more magical and liqueous sound even still especially in the highs)
 I would heartily recommend both the W5000 and the HD650 with the Darkvoice 332, BUT I think it would be VERY important to have at least a $300 source/DAC, otherwise youre wasting a LOT of potential.

 DT880's are sounding so fracking good with this DAC and upgraded tubes. Dang, I'm gonna miss this amp just because I know that this tube amp runs them so well.
 For bass heavy music, they're shredding and they sound better than my W5000s with uber dynamics and impact. They shape the midrange in a different way tho, the W5000s seem to image/detail the entire range better than the DT880's where as the DT880s sound merely warm in their entire range. (still very lush and musical tho)
 The DT880's have a delightful treble sparkle whereas the W5000s treble is a little annoying because it just sounds close to the listener in the soundstage and a little out of proportion to the rest of their range.
 Well, I've decide to keep the DT880s even though I'm selling the DV332.

 EDIT:
 I'm enjoying the overall listening session of my DT880s more than my W5000s! for the overall music I listen to the DT880s are doing better than the W5000s. 
 If you listen to mainly guitar, vocals, saxophone, acoustic anything the W5000s are for you- and you MUST audition a pair!
 But damn these DT880s are perfect with this setup, they bring out the juciness 100%.
 As far as the W5000s I'm not impressed with the synergy of this setup.
 As far as the HD650's, I only get the sound I'm looking for when I crank them, and that is just not happening.

 Notes:
 So much of this is speculation... the memory of my HD650s, what a de-veiled Senn might sound like... in my audio exploration, the most important thing for me to do has been to try many different things and speculate based on other peoples opinions, my opinions, whatever... Speculation is a key element when you come down to it. After all, it's hard to say what is and isn't placebo.


----------



## Godkin

Nice piece of kit, Dreamwhisper. And just as you are burning in your DAC, I'm burning is a new tube buffer from CORE AUDIO. Here's some pics:













 The first thing you notice about the CORE is its sheer bulk. I'm used to smallish tube buffers - like the MF X-10 V3 and the YAQIN - but this thing is huge - it weighs in at nearly 4.5kg. Build is simply first class, with a brushed aliminium fascia that is 1cm thick. The CORE comes with two 6BC4 tubes, and its none of your crappy Chinese tubes, this thing comes with two NOS RCAs on board. Sound is sublime. Bass is resoundingly deep - the deepest I've heard from this type of device. Whole bass rifts I've never heard before are coming through my 332 and HD650s. I'm not a bass head, but this is great. These bass characteristics are no doubt due to the huge transformer under the hood - 10 times the power needed to run this baby.

 As to the rest of the sound, everything's there: the midrange is great, clear and open with plenty of depth and height; and treble is clear and well defined, with no hint of harshness. 

 And the price: £100 ($200). No, your eyes aren't deceiving you - £100. The CORE AUDIO Tube Buffer is a steal.


----------



## nor_spoon

Nice audio rack Godkin! 

 I'm gonna look for one soon too, building my own little "hiding place"


----------



## omegaman

Godkin, That tube buffer looks great but I need to ask what it is !!!!!!!!!

 I admit I'm pretty new to all this tube stuff, and I'm sure I am not the only one !!!!!

 It looks like I need ( want ) one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 Cheers


----------



## Godkin

Don't know that much about the technical side, Omegaman, but it's like an external tube output stage for your SS DAC. It adds tube warm, sure, but it also adds openness, the timbre of the music is just so life-like, and the bass is deep, so deep, with great definition.

 This guy who sells them is known for his high quality but very reasonably priced products. I've bought silver ICs off him in the past - superb quality by the way - and I always check his E-Bay store to see if there is anything new. Boy, was I glad to see the CORE AUDIO buffer. I'm a sucker for these things: I've had the MF X-10 V3 and the YAQIN 6J1 tube buffer, and both were excellent, but they pale into insignificance beside this beast. Everything about this device exudes quality. 

 I have to keep slapping myself. I still can't believe I bought this for £100.


----------



## jenny-luck

the website of DARK VOICE :Iwww.darkvoice.com.cn
 email:darkvoice2003@gamil.com & jenny-luck@hotmail.com,
 if you have any other question ,please connect with us .


----------



## Zodduska

wow, great pics and beautiful setup you have there Godkin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that tube buffer looks mighty tempting for its price... must.. resist..


----------



## Godkin

I tried to resist, Zodduska, honestly I did. But the mind and flesh was weak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I pulled the trigger and bought it, and boy am I glad I did.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried to resist, Zodduska, honestly I did. But the mind and flesh was weak. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I pulled the trigger and bought it, and boy am I glad I did._

 

That sounds familiar


----------



## dreamwhisper

Wow, my other post was pretty harsh on my setup
 Electrocompaniet ECD-1 -> DV 332 ,W5000, DT880
 My impressions were done with the tubes only burnt in 8 hours, now about 20 hours later there is a huge improvement in sound, and I'm just not noticing any of the noticeable flaws that I was before.

 I even tried my HD650s on them with an iron HD25-1 cable which didn't do the HD650s any justice,
 but alas I was liking the sound enough to think to myself, just one more song

 There's three things I've learnt 
 1)I really like the HD650's (even more than the W5000)
 2) for the DV332, a decent DAC is a must (better than the EMU-0404
 3)for the DV332, decent tubes is a must.


----------



## Godkin

Is it just me or is there a lot of E-Bay sellers attempting to pass off ULYANOVSK 6S19Ps as SVETLANAs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is obviously lots of cash to be made, as the SVETLANAs are in short supply while there appears to be a surplus of ULYANOVSKs. Buyer beware. Keep a close eye on the logos on the side of the tubes.


----------



## mybeat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it just me or is there a lot of E-Bay sellers attempting to pass off ULYANOVSK 6S19Ps as SVETLANAs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There is obviously lots of cash to be made, as the SVETLANAs are in short supply while there appears to be a surplus of ULYANOVSKs. Buyer beware. Keep a close eye on the logos on the side of the tubes._

 

Yeah that's true. while I was searching for svet's i stumbled upon 2 seller with uly's sold as svets. I send a message to one of them and he replied that he was using one picture for all of the tubes. I didnt belive that and ordered from a seller named art_anique. He was selling 6s19's and they came labeled as 6s19-v's which made me very happy,got 8 of them.

 There are also sellers who sells cv4010 as mullard's m8100.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are also sellers who sells cv4010 as mullard's m8100._

 

Actually, my Mullard M8100's have M8100 printed on one side of the glass, and CV4010 printed on the back.


----------



## mybeat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, my Mullard M8100's have M8100 printed on one side of the glass, and CV4010 printed on the back._

 

Yes thats true 
 I have 2 which have cv4010 printed on the front and m8100 on the back 
 and 2 with 6096 7710 cv4010 and nothing on the back side.


----------



## Godkin

The two tubes are interchangable: the M8100 is the commerical version of the military CV4010. However, I think the CV4010 has a crisper, slightly more forward character. I thought I was imagining it, but my findings were confirmed by Zodduska.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it just me or is there a lot of E-Bay sellers attempting to pass off ULYANOVSK 6S19Ps as SVETLANAs? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is obviously lots of cash to be made, as the SVETLANAs are in short supply while there appears to be a surplus of ULYANOVSKs. Buyer beware. Keep a close eye on the logos on the side of the tubes._

 

Some of them are absolutely attempting to "confuse" the issue... or... at least they were when I bought mine last year. If I recall correctly... a guy named Anthony Walsh, or something similar, was one that attempted to "obscure" the brands. He seemed to "hope" the buyer would not be too well informed regarding the Svets, in particular. And... "siberian-shop" has an ad for Svets right now, that are pictured with the Uly logos in the ad. 

 However... I had no problems with two Russian sellers - who were very candid and honest, and very reasonable in splitting orders, shipping to two locations one in the US and one in Germany, etc. One of those was "art_antique" mentioned below - a very good seller. There was another one, or two - that were also good.

 And there is one ad right now - which is showing Svet 6S19Ps (winged C logos) in their ad - if those are actually a picture of the tubes for sale. Sometimes they post a "generic" ad, for tubes that are not those described in the text. You have to be very careful to confirm what your buying with those sellers.


----------



## Ragonix

I'm looking for an amp to power DT880s. I have narrowed it down to either DV332 or Glow Amp One. Anybody here know which one is the better headphone amp?


----------



## leng jai

Got my tubes yesterday and have been listening to the 6S19P-V and 403B combo. I am pretty pleased, no buzz at all at any volume level. I think the biggest sonic difference is the clarity. The stock chinese tubes were somewhat congested but these are definitely clearer with more detail. Mids are livelier but the difference is subtle. Bass is relatively similar if not slightly tighter whilst maintaining the same quantity. All in all, quite nice.


----------



## onlychild

Anyone changed out the volume attenuator on their DV332 yet? 

 I don't know much about what will work or what type I need, but for those that are in the know, what do you think of this : 

DACT type 23 stepped attenuator volume control 100K 2a3 - eBay (item 300217065928 end time Apr-24-08 04:29:07 PDT)


----------



## Scottyyy

So i'm switching between my DV332 and EMU 0202 headphone out, and I'm not hearing much of a difference. The DV332 is obviously better, but I'm not sure if it's a $400 improvement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . 

 Also, can someone explain this to me. On my Denon D2000s (25 Ohm), I had the volume at 3 'o' clock on my EMU 0202 headphone out, and that was fine. 100% was listenable too. Now, with my HD650s (300 Ohm), I'm listening at 12 'o' clock. How is it that the Denon's need more power than the HD650s?

 I don't understand...


----------



## leng jai

That seems very high to me. What volume is your EMU 0202 set at? MY X-Fi is set to 90% and my maximum listenable volume is 9 'o' clock.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That seems very high to me. What volume is your EMU 0202 set at? MY X-Fi is set to 90% and my maximum listenable volume is 9 'o' clock._

 

Oh, not on the Darkvoice. I have the Darkvoice at 8 o clock-ish when I'm using it. I was talking about the EMU headphone output, which has its own volume control, when not using the Darkvoice.


----------



## Godkin

The 332 is designed generally for high impedance cans, and for SENNHEISERS in particular: the output stage, with its low capitances (66uF), is perfect for the HD650s. With low impedance headphones, like the DENONS, you need higher capitances (about 2000uF) in the output stage. If you don't have this power, you have to wind the amp up more to get higher volumes out of low impedance cans.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i'm switching between my DV332 and EMU 0202 headphone out, and I'm not hearing much of a difference. The DV332 is obviously better, but I'm not sure if it's a $400 improvement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . 

 Also, can someone explain this to me. On my Denon D2000s (25 Ohm), I had the volume at 3 'o' clock on my EMU 0202 headphone out, and that was fine. 100% was listenable too. Now, with my HD650s (300 Ohm), I'm listening at 12 'o' clock. How is it that the Denon's need more power than the HD650s?

 I don't understand..._

 

If I were you I would invest in a better source.
 The darkvoice is really nice out of Emus, but
 a decent source (prbly upward of $350), takes the darkvoice to another level.

 I'm not sure what the impedence is on the D2000 but the Darkvoice is designed for higher impedence fons.
 I was running DT880 and HD650, but I noticed a huge improvement with the W5000 as well.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I were you I would invest in a better source.
 The darkvoice is really nice out of Emus, but
 a decent source (prbly upward of $350), takes the darkvoice to another level.

 I'm not sure what the impedence is on the D2000 but the Darkvoice is designed for higher impedence fons.
 I was running DT880 and HD650, but I noticed a huge improvement with the W5000 as well._

 

Nah, I don't think I'm spending any more money on my setup. I'll listen to the DV332 for a few weeks and switch back to the EMU. If the difference is still not very apparent, I'll probably sell the DV and save myself some money.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 is designed generally for high impedance cans, and for SENNHEISERS in particular: the output stage, with its low capitances (66uF), is perfect for the HD650s. With low impedance headphones, like the DENONS, you need higher impedances (about 2000uF) in the output stage. If you don't have this power, you have to wind the amp up more to get higher volumes out of low impedance cans._

 

That explains it, thanks.


----------



## mchang

I paired the DV332 with a now-sold 0404 USB, and the changes were dramatic with my HD650s. 0404 USB headphone out only = bleh. With 0404 + DV = wow. Ultimately, I upgraded to the OMZ + DV = wow+1.

 Maybe your lack of difference is due to the impedance and capacitances (with Denons) mentioned by others. I know nothing about the tech and can't comment.

 But I'm surprised you're not hearing improvements with your Senns. This is based on an assumption that the 0202 is not a great downgrade from the 0404 USB (which sejarzo typically says is not a huge drop).


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i'm switching between my DV332 and EMU 0202 headphone out, and I'm not hearing much of a difference. The DV332 is obviously better, but I'm not sure if it's a $400 improvement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ._

 

Hey Scottyyy, 
 There are a few things that might be effecting the performance of your 332. The first thing that comes to mind with using an internal soundcard as source is EMI, the inside of a computer is not really an ideal place to house an audophile analog component, not to critisize your setup at all but IMHO the source is the most key part of any audio chain. 

 Another thing to keep in mind is ground loops if you have ever heard one they are pretty easy to identify but can be a bit tricky to fix, cheater plugs may help. 

 What tubes are you using?

 Finally if there is one thing I have learned researching high end audio is that once you leave the general consumer market gear the $$ to SQ is worse the higher you go.. so it is very possible that even with an ideal setup you may not feel the difference is worth what you spent. run away from head-fi!! save yourself!!


----------



## leng jai

I am just wondering now, how much of a bottleneck my X-Fi is to my setup.


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Scottyyy, 
 There are a few things that might be effecting the performance of your 332. The first thing that comes to mind with using an internal soundcard as source is EMI, the inside of a computer is not really an ideal place to house an audophile analog component, not to critisize your setup at all but IMHO the source is the most key part of any audio chain. 

 Another thing to keep in mind is ground loops if you have ever heard one they are pretty easy to identify but can be a bit tricky to fix, cheater plugs may help. 

 What tubes are you using?

 Finally if there is one thing I have learned researching high end audio is that once you leave the general consumer market gear the $$ to SQ is worse the higher you go.. so it is very possible that even with an ideal setup you may not feel the difference is worth what you spent. run away from head-fi!! save yourself!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

EMU 0202 USB is an external card. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah it's probably not ideal, but I don't really want to spend more money on my setup.

 I'm using 2 6S19P-V Uljanovsk tubes, and 2 LM Ericson 403b tubes.

 But I'm gradually starting to like the DV332 more and more as I listen. Every so often I'll switch to the EMU, and notice that is sounds pretty lifeless compared to the DV332. It doesn't have the "smoothness" in the midrange that the DV provides either. So it's getting better.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EMU 0202 USB is an external card. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah it's probably not ideal, but I don't really want to spend more money on my setup.

 I'm using 2 6S19P-V Uljanovsk tubes, and 2 LM Ericson 403b tubes.

 But I'm gradually starting to like the DV332 more and more as I listen. Every so often I'll switch to the EMU, and notice that is sounds pretty lifeless compared to the DV332. It doesn't have the "smoothness" in the midrange that the DV provides either. So it's getting better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

*smacks self on forehead* d'oh, I was under the impression 0202 was an internal.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm glad the darkvoice is starting to grow on you a bit, your rig should be quite adequate and those are nice tubes as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am just wondering now, how much of a bottleneck my X-Fi is to my setup._

 

Well, I'll say this.. if it sounds good to you it IS good. Though, if you have some extra cash and decided to upgrade your source I think you would hear a very nice return on your investment


----------



## Scottyyy

Which is the best tube out of these three:

 Western Electric 403b
 CV4010 (not sure of the brand)
 LM Ericsson 403b

 Anyone compared them all?


----------



## Godkin

I prefer the WE 403Bs over the CV4010s (MULLARD). For some, the ERICSSON 403Bs better the WE tubes, but I've not heard them so can't comment.


----------



## mojolo

Can anyone else confirm that the current shipping DV332's include upgraded ceramic sockets?

Please refer to AntiGeek's post/pictures of the new sockets.

 If the new sockets feature ceramic, what were the old ones made of?

 i was thinking about buying a used DV332, but if the new ones fix the hum, i think it'd be preferable.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone else confirm that the current shipping DV332's include upgraded ceramic sockets?

Please refer to AntiGeek's post/pictures of the new sockets.

 If the new sockets feature ceramic, what were the old ones made of?

 i was thinking about buying a used DV332, but if the new ones fix the hum, i think it'd be preferable._

 

I don't know where you got the impression the DV332 has hum???

 It doesn't - its silent. 

 Perhaps, some folks have had some bad tubes, or a ground loop... but... with good tubes, and elimination of the ground loop... it has no hum.


----------



## mojolo

aw ok. was hoping it was something like that.

 are the ceramic tube sockets in those photos actually a new addition to the DV332's? haven't heard anyone else comment on them.


----------



## Nuwidol

Anyone know what the possibilities are about 332 upgrades? I'm very happy with mine so far but talk of other amp upgrades has had me thinking for a while.

 Could we squeeze much more out of it with cap upgrades & such?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mojolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_aw ok. was hoping it was something like that.

 are the ceramic tube sockets in those photos actually a new addition to the DV332's? haven't heard anyone else comment on them._

 

I don't know what a "ceramic" tube socket looks like, or what alternatives there are. 

 All I know is that... the tube sockets in mine are white - thought all were.

 I wouldn't worry too much about them. If you don't like them - I suspect its pretty inexpensive and easy to swap them out - likely a pretty simple DIY swap - I would guess.


----------



## dhammavijaya

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know where you got the impression the DV332 has hum???

 It doesn't - its silent. 

 Perhaps, some folks have had some bad tubes, or a ground loop... but... with good tubes, and elimination of the ground loop... it has no hum._

 

I have great tubes and no ground loop, yet I still have a slight hum in the left channel that I can't quite eradicate. I'm in correspondence with DarkVoice about it.


----------



## Skylab

Just a question: have you tried cleaning the pins on the tubes with something like Caig ProGold? This has eliminated slight hum for me in several amps I have had.


----------



## Nuwidol

Have you tries shielding the amp? Something electrical nearby may be causing interference. I had this & it took me a LONG time to figure it out. I fixed it by moving the position of my amp & offending equipment (in my case my ADSL modem/router)

 To test this turn your amp on but do not play any music through it. Then, move your hand (shaped like you are about to slap someone) around the amp slowly & see if the buzzing stops when your hand is in a certain area. If it does, what equipment have you blocked from transmitting its bad rays at you lovely amp?


 Just a thought that might help you...


----------



## dhammavijaya

Thank you for the suggestions. I've ordered some Caig ProGold. I hope it helps. I don't think the problem is interference, as I get it wherever I put the amp.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a question: have you tried cleaning the pins on the tubes with something like Caig ProGold? This has eliminated slight hum for me in several amps I have had._

 

As well as... gently spreading the pins to fit more tightly in their sockets - but you have to be very careful, or you'll break them out of the glass.


----------



## mchang

I swore I had good tubes, but didn't fix my whine until I swapped in and out two sets of Svets and two sets of WEs. Turned out at least one of my "good" tubes was actually bad.


----------



## dhammavijaya

Can someone do me a favour? Can you switch on your 332, and place your ear 4 or 5 inches from the transformer? Do you hear a hum? What I get through the phones sounds like that. I think I hear transformer hum rather than tubes.


----------



## mybeat

I have hum coming from transformer only if i put my ear really close to it, from 4 inches its dead silent.

 Did you try swaping the tubes?
 What's your source?
 I had a hum problem because of my mic was plugged in the same soundcard as my amp was.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have hum coming from transformer only if i put my ear really close to it, from 4 inches its dead silent._

 

Same here!

 I've to put my ear on the metal casing to hear the faint hum, but 2 inches from the cover is also dead silence.

 FYI I'm using Russian 6S19Ps and WE403Bs if that matters.


----------



## PrTv

Today I've just discovered a problem.

 The amp hums for no reason.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Like my previous post, I'm using 6S19Ps with WE403B and I kinda like the sound of this combination.

 However, this morning I temporarily removed 403B for testing Mullard tubes. After finding Mullard' sound is not my taste, I swapped 403B back, and BOOM! Faint hum on left channel.

 It seems my left channel tube that hums as the hum moved to right channel when I moved that tube.

 I don't know what caused this problem as that tube performed perfectly fine before being temporarily removed. 

 This is what I tried 
 1. spread tube's pins
 2. clean the pins
 3. apply contact cleaner.

 None of the above help.

 However, when I swapped another set of tube (Mullard, the sound of which I don't really like), the hum is gone. 

 Is it possible that one of my WE403B is damaged from removal?


----------



## DennyL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible that one of my WE403B is damaged from removal?_

 

It does seem like it.


----------



## DennyL

My DV332 has so far been without problems. I have done a bit of valve swapping, but so far have heard no hum on the signal or mechanical hum from the transformer. When I was valve swapping with my DV336 I had some valves that hummed, and others that hummed initially, but who's hum faded away after 30 or so hours of use.


----------



## magnetiq

*sigh* I'm getting a bit fed up waiting for the 220v version from Jasmine, even though it was one of the rarer cheaper listings...

 ..I'm tempted to get one from casque now, anywhere else I can get one?


----------



## dhammavijaya

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have hum coming from transformer only if i put my ear really close to it, from 4 inches its dead silent.

 Did you try swaping the tubes?
 What's your source?
 I had a hum problem because of my mic was plugged in the same soundcard as my amp was._

 

Thanks for trying that. I can hear a hum off mine from nearly a foot away (at night when all is quiet). This will happen whether I have my CD source connected or not. It seems the transformer is the problem rather than the tubes, as I get the hum whichever tubes I use. I have Mullards and Ulyanovsks. It's very faint through the phones, but still annoying. I'm thinking of fitting a resistor in the headphone cable as a solution.


----------



## Scottyyy

I only start to hear a hum when I turn the volume passed 12 o clock, which is way above listening level anyway.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dhammavijaya* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for trying that. I* can hear a hum off mine from nearly a foot away *_

 

A foot away?!?

 If I were you I would stop using the amp immediately and have the amp inspected by some electronic guy. Though I'm not an electronic expert, I can say that I don't think it's normal for a transformer to produce the hum which is audible a foot away like this.


----------



## afgeneral

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A foot away?!?

 If I were you I would stop using the amp immediately and have the amp inspected by some electronic guy. Though I'm not an electronic expert, I can say that I don't think it's normal for a transformer to produce the hum which is audible a foot away like this._

 

It's actually quite normal for inexpensive transformers to hum like this. These are mechanical vibrations of the transformer laminations, and to a certain extent, transformer windings. Transformers are still manually impregnated even with larger/reputable manufacturers -- so they are subject to sample variation. It's easy to fix, though... bake the transformer for 1 hour at 120 degrees Celcius, while hot, dip the entire transformer to a varnish material like Dolphon AC-43 (about 40 bucks per gallon) and air cure for 24 hours.


----------



## nor_spoon

Finally I found a couple of LM Ericsson 403B's. This is the gold pin version. Looking forward to try this tube


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally I found a couple of LM Ericsson 403B's. This is the gold pin version. Looking forward to try this tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, this one looks very promising!
 How much did you pay for it?

 By the way, how does it fare comparing to WE403B?


----------



## nor_spoon

Got them for a fair price. I'll post impressions compared to the Mullard M8100's and the WE403B's when I get them.


----------



## subfocus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got them for a fair price. I'll post impressions compared to the Mullard M8100's and the WE403B's when I get them._

 

Look forward to your impressions . I'm curious to know whether they might just provide a taste of the 'middle ground' that I'm looking for; between the lush Mullards and the analytical WE403B(A)'s.


----------



## dhammavijaya

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *afgeneral* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's actually quite normal for inexpensive transformers to hum like this. These are mechanical vibrations of the transformer laminations, and to a certain extent, transformer windings. Transformers are still manually impregnated even with larger/reputable manufacturers -- so they are subject to sample variation. It's easy to fix, though... bake the transformer for 1 hour at 120 degrees Celcius, while hot, dip the entire transformer to a varnish material like Dolphon AC-43 (about 40 bucks per gallon) and air cure for 24 hours._

 

Er. That doesn't sound too easy to me


----------



## PrTv

I read through almost every page and wonder about tubes usable with this amp. Seeing many of you guys use 5654, M8100, EF95, 403A/B, CV4010 makes me believe that there are very limited amount of tubes which are compatible with this amp.

 However, I found a list of tubes that are equivalent to the above tubes, but didn't see any of them mentioned in this thread (if I didn't miss something).

 The said list contains EF905 6AK5W CK5654 GL5654 CV4010 CV5216 CV8246 CV5893 6096 CV10442 E95F

 Has anyone tried any of the blue tubes? How do they sound compared to the well-known tubes above?

 FYI, the list I mentioned can be found here

*Additionally, * does anyone know any western equivalent for those russian 6S19Ps?


----------



## Godkin

Don't want to contradict, but the 6AK5W and CV4010 have been talked about many times on this thread. The 6069 has bee mentioned in passing, but it is a eastern European tube designation, and since eastern Europe makes no tubes of distinction it only deserves to be mentioned in passing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The CK5654 and CL5654 are individual manufacturers ways of coding their own tubes: the CK5654 is a RAYTHEON tube, but is still a 5654 type pentode. The EF905 and E95F are simply another way of numbering the EF95 (limited research may also suggest that the EF905 is technically different from the EF95).

 There are a bewildering array of CV (common valve) numbers, made for the British military. Most are very hard to come by - I certainly haven't come across them on my travels - but the CV850 (EF95) and CV4010 (M8100) are quite easy to come by.

 As far as I know, PrTv, there are no western equivalents to the 6S19P. I came close a couple of times, but in the end I came across no direct drop-ins. Some say there is no need for a "better" western tube: the 6S19P is a very well respected, a high point in Soviet tube manufacturing.


----------



## nor_spoon

Got my LM Ericsson 403B's. Played some songs and here is my first impression compared to the Mullard M8100's using RS-1:

 The E's seems to be clearer/brighter and more detailed, and a little more analytical than the M's. The M's are more lush to my ears. The first thought was that they sounded a bit more "metallic", but that seems to have settled down now. 

 I have some favorite songs that I know well I listen to everytime I roll tubes. Noticed the bass seemed a bit tighter with nice impact. I'll roll back and get another listen -Just did, and the M's are a bit darker and lush with maybe a little "rounder" bass, but nothing wrong with that. The sound of the M's seem a bit more relaxed to my ears, almost a bit veiled compared to the E's, in a good way. At least with the RS-1.

 I think the E's could be a good match with the HD650, as the M's are a bit darker sounding and lush compared to the E's. For RS-1, first impression is that I still prefer the M's.

 Unfortunately, there is a low background hum with the E's. It might go away after using them a bit, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen.
 So, if the hum goes away, I'll leave them in for a while. If not, I'll be happy with the M's until my ZD arrives.


----------



## Scottyyy

Has anyone used their 332 with Sextett's or K340s?

 How well did they pair? I'm thinking about getting one of them.

 Thanks


----------



## Godkin

Nice description of the differences between the 403Bs and M8100, Nor Spoon.


----------



## PrTv

It's good to hear your impression, nor_spoon.

 When you receive WE403B tubes, please do some comparison and let us know the difference in their sound signature, since I understand that WE403B and E403B came from the same manufacturer, but WE403B is cheaper and easier to come by.


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone know what the possibilities are about 332 upgrades? I'm very happy with mine so far but talk of other amp upgrades has had me thinking for a while.

 Could we squeeze much more out of it with cap upgrades & such?_

 

Anyone?


----------



## nor_spoon

Thanks for your comments =) 

 I have had the WE403B's for some time, but I didn't think they sounded as good as the M8100's, so I haven't used them much. Sort of middle glare, and little more undefined bass to my ears. I need to check them again.
 The Ericssons have been glowing for some time now, and the hum is gone. Nice. 

 If I remember correctly, I've read somewhere that Ericsson made some tubes for Western Electric in the 50's. Don't know which ones though.


----------



## nor_spoon

Well, I tested the WE403B's again, listening to some songs on Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me" with RS-1, and my impression is the same as last time I tried them. There is some colorization going on to my ears compared to the other tubes. Sort of like a yellow/golden tint or haze. Thats what pops up in my head everytime I listen to the WE's. The bass is also a bit more muffled or undefined. Back in the drawer they go. 

 Anyway, it's subtle differences, and hard when not directly A/B testing. I think they are all excellent tubes, but I prefer the Mullards or the Ericssons, leaning towards the latter.


----------



## Scottyyy

Is it safe to leave tube amps running overnight?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone used their 332 with Sextett's or K340s?

 How well did they pair? I'm thinking about getting one of them.

 Thanks_

 

An answer to this would be much appreciated if anyone has a pair of Sextett's in particular.


----------



## kool bubba ice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it safe to leave tube amps running overnight?



 An answer to this would be much appreciated if anyone has a pair of Sextett's in particular. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Scott. I'm Headphone Czar at the Halo3 site.. The 340's & 332's have a great synergy together.. & the Sextetts are 600 ohms & pretty hard to drive. But not as hard as the 340's..


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone used their 332 with Sextett's or K340s?

 How well did they pair? I'm thinking about getting one of them.

 Thanks_

 

I have both and the 332 has no problems driving either one.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I tested the WE403B's again, listening to some songs on Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me" with RS-1, and my impression is the same as last time I tried them. There is some colorization going on to my ears compared to the other tubes. Sort of like a yellow/golden tint or haze. Thats what pops up in my head everytime I listen to the WE's. The bass is also a bit more muffled or undefined. Back in the drawer they go. 

 Anyway, it's subtle differences, and hard when not directly A/B testing. I think they are all excellent tubes, but I prefer the Mullards or the Ericssons, leaning towards the latter._

 

How coincidental! At the moment I'm also listening to Norah Jones through 403Bs. About the muffled and undefined bass, I agree with you as I also have that impression with 403A and 403B.

 However, when comparing 403A/B and M8100, I tend to like 403 more. IMO mid-high range of 403 is very good, and the difference is very clear when listening to audiophile records (especially Susan Wong and other vocal-heavy record).

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone?_

 

I too also want to know the upgrade possibility of this amp. I think many things can be done to improve its performance ie changing volume, power transformer, wire, even tube sockets. Actually, I know someone who could do this for me, but I don't want to just send the amp to him and let him do the experiment like it being a guinea pig. I think it'd be better to adapt some proved upgrade.


----------



## hawkhead

WRT to upgrades does anyone have any internal pics ?

 I know of changing the output caps on a 336 to suit lower impedance 'phones

 Also I agree on the Ericsson 403's these are my favourites too


----------



## PrTv

About internal Pic you requested, as I'm using the amp right now and don't want to flip it over to take an internal shot, I will quote Budgetphile's post again as he posted the internal pic long time ago.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *budgetphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had to go away for work last week, got back yesterday to find all the tubes I've ordered waiting for me. Can't get to play yet, too busy, I'll have to wait for next weekend to get my elbows wet.

 meanwhile:










_

 

I wonder what kind of performance it can deliver if all interior components are changed to the higher quality ones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may end up having a completely different amp.


----------



## Scottyyy

Thanks guys.

 I think I'll pick up a pair of Sextett's if I see some on eBay. Hopefully middle production ones appear.


----------



## Godkin

As far as I'm aware, nobody has modded the 332 yet. Pink Floyd over at the Rock Grotto has modded a number of 336is to better suit lower impedance cans by removing the film caps and replacing them with larger value electrolytics; he has also changed the large power resistors with good sonic benefits. As a man with high impedance HD580s and HD650s upping the capitiance in the output stage would not be high on my list of priorities when modding the 332, but maybe a better quality cap would be in order - maybe a Clarity Cap or something. Also that nasty pot would have to go - a stepped attenuator would be nice, if it would fit.


----------



## Skylab

W/r/t leaving tube amps on overnight, I don't think it's a good idea. It would in all likelihood be just fine, but if something did go wrong, it could result in a fire.


----------



## Steph86

Little dot MKIVse or darkvoice 332?


----------



## PrTv

I own DV332 for several months, and to tell you guys the truth, I'm not satisfied with its performance.

 The combo is DV332 + HD650 (stock cable). I tried several tubes, namely WE403B, WE403A, Mullard EF95/M8100/6AK5W, and Sylvania 5654s. Some of these tubes sound better than the others. I myself prefer 403A/B for its clarity and treble, but there is one problem I always encounter regardless of what tubes being used. That problem is bass quality. I'm not a bass head, but I can't stand bloated bass. None of the above tubes can deliver a tight/fast/ and deep bass, as all I experienced so far is bloated and shallow bass.

 My source is Rotel RCD06, which is known for its impact, speed, and clarity. 

 FYI, my power tube is Ulyanovsk, as I couldn't find any Svetlana.

 I don't know why it's this difficult to bring out good bass as every component seems to be fine (I mean decent quality).

 Is it possible that my headphones is defective or something?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own DV332 for several months, and to tell you guys the truth, I'm not satisfied with its performance.

 The combo is DV332 + HD650 (stock cable). I tried several tubes, namely WE403B, WE403A, Mullard EF95/M8100/6AK5W, and Sylvania 5654s. Some of these tubes sound better than the others. I myself prefer 403A/B for its clarity and treble, but there is one problem I always encounter regardless of what tubes being used. That problem is bass quality. I'm not a bass head, but I can't stand bloated bass. None of the above tubes can deliver a tight/fast/ and deep bass, as all I experienced so far is bloated and shallow bass.

 My source is Rotel RCD06, which is known for its impact, speed, and clarity. 

 FYI, my power tube is Ulyanovsk, as I couldn't find any Svetlana.

 I don't know why it's this difficult to bring out good bass as every component seems to be fine (I mean decent quality).

 Is it possible that my headphones is defective or something?_

 

That's unfortunate... the Svets and the Tung Sols produce the tightest, most extended bass, with the best dynamics. 

 It's too bad... they're both hard to find.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I own DV332 for several months, and to tell you guys the truth, I'm not satisfied with its performance.

 The combo is DV332 + HD650 (stock cable). I tried several tubes, namely WE403B, WE403A, Mullard EF95/M8100/6AK5W, and Sylvania 5654s. Some of these tubes sound better than the others. I myself prefer 403A/B for its clarity and treble, but there is one problem I always encounter regardless of what tubes being used. That problem is bass quality. I'm not a bass head, but I can't stand bloated bass. None of the above tubes can deliver a tight/fast/ and deep bass, as all I experienced so far is bloated and shallow bass.

 My source is Rotel RCD06, which is known for its impact, speed, and clarity. 

 FYI, my power tube is Ulyanovsk, as I couldn't find any Svetlana.

 I don't know why it's this difficult to bring out good bass as every component seems to be fine (I mean decent quality).

 Is it possible that my headphones is defective or something?_

 

I know how you feel,
 I wasn't impressed.
 I liked my HD650's better from my dad's Behringer headphone distributer/amp that he uses in his recording studio (4 outputs-$200, source was Presonus central station)


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's unfortunate... the Svets and the Tung Sols produce the tightest, most extended bass, with the best dynamics. 

 It's too bad... they're both hard to find._

 

Ummm, maybe it's time to consider finding some Svets on eBay and hope that the tubes shipped are actually Svets, not Ulys.

 But you know what, I think I'm starting to get tired finding the way to bring out the best of HD650. I mean, seriously, how much should it take until I can make this phones sound good. I even tried swapping interconnect cable (even nordost, the price of which is even more expensive than the amp itself, I borrowed from a friend couldn't remedy that bass problem), AC cable (JPS red-wall with Wattgate on each end). Though the interconnect and AC cable aren't mine, I feel very frustrated jumping through all these hoops trying to make these phones sound "right" (and my expectation isn't even high).

 I'm sorry if this post might seem a bit off-topic, but I think it's not the amp that is weak as almost everyone here seem to like it a lot. That brings back my last question, is it possible that my cans are defective? I know it sounds silly, but I'm really out of idea now.


----------



## Skylab

It may well be you just don't really like the HD650. That was the conclusion I came to a few years ago.

 I certainly think before you abandon an amp, it's a good idea to try multiple headphones.


----------



## mchang

Maybe the HD650 just aren't your cup of tea. Many report dissatisfaction with the sound until they go balanced. Obviously, there are great cost increases with doing so.

 I have a stock HD650 with DV332 with Svets and WE403b and really love the sound. Would I love it more if they were balanced? Likely, but I can't afford it.

 On the other hand, after awhile I didn't like the sound out of my Beyer DT990. I could have swapped amps and everything, trying to make it something it wasn't (to my ears). Or I could have made the switch to the Senns, which I did.

 Have you tried Grados? They seem the polar opposite of Senns. If you're really into bass, how about the Beyer DT990 or a pair of Darthed DT770?

 Sometimes the simplest solution is the best. Good luck.


----------



## Gradofan2

I have to agree.

 While my "old" version HD650s sounded much better with my DV332 (and Monarchy M24 DAC) - they still seemed a bit slow and dark to me. And.. yes... the Aphex 204 sound processor almost turned them into HD580/600s, or RS-1s for me. But... I ultimately... determined the "new" version HD580/600s just sounded better... more alive!

 And... the Svets and the Tung Sols in the DV332 help a lot... but... they won't make the HD650s sound like HD580/600s, or Grados, or AD2000s.

 And... I don't know whether the "new" version of the HD650s will sound much better - haven't tried them, yet.

 But... a lot of folks have come to the same conclusion - its just a lot simpler to swap the phones.


----------



## PrTv

Thanks for the suggestion. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, before buying I had auditioned Grado MS2 and Ergo Model 2 (driven by DV332/w stock tubes); HD650 and AKG 701 (driven by Lisa3). At the time, I was only able to use my iPod Nano3g as a source.

 MS2 was ridiculously bright with DV332, and I'm not a fan of bright phones, so MS2 was out of my list. Ergo 2's sound was very close to those of 650, but I found 650 was more "fun" to listen to.

 Unfortunately, the shop where I auditioned 650 and 701 didn't have DV, so I had to use Lisa to drive them instead (the shop also carried Tomahawk and Hornet, and I tried them all and found that Lisa3 was superior to those amps). 701, to me, sounded too distance and sometimes its treble can hurt my ears (note that I don't know how good is the synergy between Lisa3 and 701), whilst 650 sounded more weighty and more dynamic. Considering the kind of music I'm listen to (Jazz, Acoustic, Blues and Country), I picked 650.

 The reason I bought DV332 was because it's said that DV332 + HD650 was a match made in heaven and I thought that at the moment with that amount of money, I couldn't find any better amp for my phones.

 That said, after many hours of serious and analytical audition, I started to doubt if the sound I listened was the sound of Sennheiser's flagship phones driven by one of the amp said to be its best match.

 Honestly, I'm really new to the headphone world and have no idea about how much I can expect from a good set of headphones. IMO my Totem Rainmaker driven by NAD C372 can deliver far better sonic experience.

 Again, I'm sorry if my long; off-topic post upset someone.

 P.s. A pair of (bloody expensive) Lm Ericsson 403Bs is on its way. I will see if it can make me love this set.


----------



## Zodduska

Hey PrTv, Could it be possible that a tube amp in general might not be able to provide the type of bass you are looking for?(at a resonable price) From what ive read it seems pretty widely accepted that tubes make for very lush mids and highs while adding a bit of life to the music but at the same time their weak point (relative to solid state) seems to be precise, accurate and articulate bass reproduction.

 I'm very satisfied with the bass from my DV332, though it is more of a "fun" bass for lack of a better term.

 that's the tradeoff between solid state and tubes, but imho I would take tubes any day of the week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 oh and I can also send you a set of Svets for the cost of postage if you like, PM me


----------



## leng jai

I've pretty much settled on the Svets and WE403b combo. Really happy with this at the moment, adds a sparkle to the midrange and the bass is tight, punchy and deep.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've pretty much settled on the Svets and WE403b combo. Really happy with this at the moment, adds a sparkle to the midrange and the bass is tight, punchy and deep._

 

That's my favorite combo too, except I use Ericsson 403B. Overall a wonderful combination, It's very hard for me to take the headphones off once I start listening.. I have to force myself.


----------



## PrTv

Hearing you guys' praise for the Svet makes me wonder about the performance difference between the two (no need to name name as there are only 2 major tubes available). I remember hearing from Godkin long time ago that the Svet gives you more of "tube-like" sound, whilst the Ul gives you more "SS-like" sound.

 Actually, what I'm lacking now is that SS-like sound (I want more controlled bass).


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hearing you guys' praise for the Svet makes me wonder about the performance difference between the two (no need to name name as there are only 2 major tubes available). I remember hearing from Godkin long time ago that the Svet gives you more of "tube-like" sound, whilst the Ul gives you more "SS-like" sound.

 Actually, what I'm lacking now is that SS-like sound (I want more controlled bass)._

 

while I haven't tried going back to the Ulys since installing the Svets, from memory it seems like the Ulys were a bit thinner and maybe more analytical, the Svets do give improvements in the bass. (to my ears) but the differences are more subtle than the ones achieved by rolling the smaller driver tubes.

 if you are looking for a closer to solid state sound the driver tube CV4010's came the closest to my ears (when paired with the Svets), but in my opinion the bass quantity is less than what is delivered by the 403B's


----------



## Steph86

Hi, I have finally decided to go for the darkvoicwe 332, and was wondering if it is safe for me to buy from:

Welcome to Audiophilechina

 Their ebay name is casque_hifi? Has anybody used them?

 The price on audiophilechina.com is cheaper than on ebay? This is why I am not %100 sure its safe, and also I have read there has been a few darkvoice imitations going around.#

 Also one other quick question can the 332 drive speakers?


----------



## leng jai

The price is similar to deals you get on ebay. I bought mine for $410USD shipped.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The price is similar to deals you get on ebay. I bought mine for $410USD shipped._

 

Did you get it from audiophile china? From there it is 329+88shipping=408
 but from ebay its 399+90shipping=489

 Regards
 Steph


----------



## leng jai

No from a seller called Jasmine. Basically the way it works is you make them an offer eg. $410 shipped and they accept it but you pay privately not through Ebay.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leng jai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No from a seller called Jasmine. Basically the way it works is you make them an offer eg. $410 shipped and they accept it but you pay privately not through Ebay._

 

But how do I contact them, I have sent them a question about a product but they have not replied, is there a way I can email the directly?


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But how do I contact them, I have sent them a question about a product but they have not replied, is there a way I can email the directly?_

 

I have sent you a PM with the details


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also one other quick question can the 332 drive speakers?_

 

The 332 only has 1/4" Headphone jack and an RCA preamp output. From what I've read it seems the preamp out is not very good but I haven't tested it myself. So to answer your question, without modification the 332 can't drive speakers.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 only has 1/4" Headphone jack and an RCA preamp output. From what I've read it seems the preamp out is not very good but I haven't tested it myself. So to answer your question, without modification the 332 can't drive speakers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks


----------



## PrTv

Today I've just got a pair of LM 403B I ordered about a week ago. I'm really surprised that it only takes 7 days from US all the way to Thailand with the cheapest available shipping option.

 About the sound, I compared this tubes with my WE403A/B, Mullard 6AK5W, and EF95; and to simply put, LM sounds best. Bloated bass I hate is reduced significantly and mid-high is also a bit better.

 Can't wait to try this pair with Svets 6S19P Zodduska kindly shares with me.


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today I've just got a pair of LM 403B I ordered about a week ago. I'm really surprised that it only takes 7 days from US all the way to Thailand with the cheapest available shipping option.

 About the sound, I compared this tubes with my WE403A/B, Mullard 6AK5W, and EF95; and to simply put, LM sounds best. Bloated bass I hate is reduced significantly and mid-high is also a bit better.

 Can't wait to try this pair with Svets 6S19P Zodduska kindly shares with me._

 

Congrats. Where did you get them from?


----------



## Zodduska

It's good to hear you are enjoying the LM's PrTv 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 by the way those coming from me are the 6S19P-V


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Congrats. Where did you get them from?_

 

I bought it from eBay, though the price I paid was quite steep for the "non gold" version.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's good to hear you are enjoying the LM's PrTv 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 by the way those coming from me are the 6S19P-V_

 

Ahh... that even makes thing better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Speaking about the tube, initially, I heard a faint hum from my left channel, but the hum's gone after passing 1 hr.


----------



## Scottyyy

I actually prefer the WE 403b's to the LM 403b's. I've been switching them around, and I just prefer the Western Electrics. 

 If someone wants to buy them from me they can. I have 3.


----------



## Steph86

Hi, I recently ordered a darkvoice 332 and have read through bits and pieces of this thread and have noticed that upgrading the tubes would be a good idea. However this is my first tube amp and don't know much about tubes. Can anyone recommend the best tubes for this amp? They will be used with xindak dac-5 and hd650. Also where is the best place to buy from, I live in London England. Thanks
 Steph


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I recently ordered a darkvoice 332 and have read through bits and pieces of this thread and have noticed that upgrading the tubes would be a good idea. However this is my first tube amp and don't know much about tubes. Can anyone recommend the best tubes for this amp? They will be used with xindak dac-5 and hd650. Also where is the best place to buy from, I live in London England. Thanks
 Steph_

 

I like the 403B combined with Svetlana 6S19P-V, both Western Electric and LM Ericsson made good 403B. Another good tube to try is the Mullard M8100 or CV4010(supposed to be the same as m8100) there have also been reports of Tung-Sol 6AK5 being a good but I have yet to try it myself.

 The best source of fairly priced tubes is from your fellow head-fi members, I would take Scottyyy up on his offer in the post above yours. Other than that ebay is a good source but you have to be careful because its easy to pay a lot for tubes there.

 Congrats on your new 332


----------



## Scottyyy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, I recently ordered a darkvoice 332 and have read through bits and pieces of this thread and have noticed that upgrading the tubes would be a good idea. However this is my first tube amp and don't know much about tubes. Can anyone recommend the best tubes for this amp? They will be used with xindak dac-5 and hd650. Also where is the best place to buy from, I live in London England. Thanks
 Steph_

 

Hey mate

 I have 4 spare CV4010 tubes, if you'd like them. They're pretty well regarded here. I could sell you a pair for £10 if you'd like, or £20 for all 4 if you want some spares. I'm in England too so shipping wouldn't be a problem.

 Use the search tool and search "CV4010" and have a look at some of the comments about 'em.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the 403B combined with Svetlana 6S19P-V, both Western Electric and LM Ericsson made good 403B. Another good tube to try is the Mullard M8100 or CV4010(supposed to be the same as m8100) there have also been reports of Tung-Sol 6AK5 being a good but I have yet to try it myself.

 The best source of fairly priced tubes is from your fellow head-fi members, I would take Scottyyy up on his offer in the post above yours. Other than that ebay is a good source but you have to be careful because its easy to pay a lot for tubes there.

 Congrats on your new 332 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The LM's are most likely being sold to PrTv, he made the first offer. However I have got some CV4010s spare too.

 edit: anyone else can make an offer for the CV4010s if Steph doesn't want them. I prefer the WE403b, so I doubt I'll be needing the CV4010s.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like the 403B combined with Svetlana 6S19P-V, both Western Electric and LM Ericsson made good 403B. Another good tube to try is the Mullard M8100 or CV4010(supposed to be the same as m8100) there have also been reports of Tung-Sol 6AK5 being a good but I have yet to try it myself.

 The best source of fairly priced tubes is from your fellow head-fi members, I would take Scottyyy up on his offer in the post above yours. Other than that ebay is a good source but you have to be careful because its easy to pay a lot for tubes there.

 Congrats on your new 332 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 What is the differnece between the large and small ones?


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Scottyyy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LM's are most likely being sold to PrTv_

 

Greedy PrTv! Let someone else (Me) have a listen to the LMs!!


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the differnece between the large and small ones?_

 

to be honest i'm not sure what the technical differences are or much about the way the amp is designed. I think have seen people refer to the larger tubes as "power" tubes and the smaller ones as "driver" tubes. AFAIK the larger tubes are type 6S19 and the smaller are 403B or EF95 or 6AK5W or CV4010 = M8100.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nuwidol* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Greedy PrTv! Let someone else (Me) have a listen to the LMs!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey I'm not that greedy, my friend.

 I just saw Scottyyy mentioned in the thread that he wanted to sell it, so I contacted him as I think it's good idea to have a pair as backup.

 However, after knowing others also want this tubes, I PMed Scottyyy allowing him to sell to someone living closer to him (than me), including *you*. So possibility opens for you to make your offer. That's greedy, I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, when you have it, share with us what do you think about it. I'd like to know if others like them like I do (Scottyyy said he preferred WE better).


----------



## Nuwidol

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey I'm not that greedy, my friend.

 I just saw Scottyyy mentioned in the thread that he wanted to sell it, so I contacted him as I think it's good idea to have a pair as backup.

 However, after knowing others also want this tubes, I PMed Scottyyy allowing him to sell to someone living closer to him (than me), including *you*. So possibility opens for you to make your offer. That's greedy, I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, when you have it, share with us what do you think about it. I'd like to know if others like them like I do (Scottyyy said he preferred WE better)._

 

It was only meant as a joke sorry. But I did take him up on his offer & they are mine now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be sure to comment on them when they arrive.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_to be honest i'm not sure what the technical differences are or much about the way the amp is designed. I think have seen people refer to the larger tubes as "power" tubes and the smaller ones as "driver" tubes. AFAIK the larger tubes are type 6S19 and the smaller are 403B or EF95 or 6AK5W or CV4010 = M8100._

 

So where is the best place to buy the best 6s19 tubes and which of these 403B or EF95 or 6AK5W or CV4010 = M8100 are best?


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ ...CV4010 = M8100._

 

I don't think the CV4010 is equivalent to M8100. I have some CV4010 from New Zealand and they sound nothing like the Mullard M8100. I bought the CV4010 thinking they were the same as the Mullard M8100.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Antique Electronic Supply

 is having a 25% off sale,
 you can buy the Mullard M8100 there

 I have had great customer service from them


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Antique Electronic Supply

 is having a 25% off sale,
 you can buy the Mullard M8100 there

 I have had great customer service from them_

 

Thanks for the link to that site but could not find any of the above tubes on there.


----------



## hawkhead

So just how do get into the 332 ?

 I have removed all of the short screws underneath but the panel is resolutely still in place

 TIA

 David


----------



## bOUddha

Did you remove the feet?


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you remove the feet?_

 

Yes I did with the screws

 I know I am going to feel stupid!


----------



## Godkin

Steph86, E-bay is always a good place to buy the 6S19P tubes. There are a number of Russian based stores, but the price as well as postage is more expensive. The only drawback - which I do not really see as a drawback - is that you have to buy in bulk: 4 is the smallest lot I have ever seen. If you can get your hands on the 6S19P-Bs, try them: they are the "ruggedised" versions of the tube, though the sound benefits between it and the ordinary tubes are very subtle indeed.

 As to the difference between the small and large tubes, the small tubes are by far the most important to the sound of the 332 as they amplify the signal; the 6S19Ps are power rectifiers, they keep the power supply stable and constant.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Steph86, E-bay is always a good place to buy the 6S19P tubes. There are a number of Russian based stores, but the price as well as postage is more expensive. The only drawback - which I do not really see as a drawback - is that you have to buy in bulk: 4 is the smallest lot I have ever seen. If you can get your hands on the 6S19P-Bs, try them: they are the "ruggedised" versions of the tube, though the sound benefits between it and the ordinary tubes are very subtle indeed.

 As to the difference between the small and large tubes, the small tubes are by far the most important to the sound of the 332 as they amplify the signal; the 6S19Ps are power rectifiers, they keep the power supply stable and constant._

 

Thanks godkin, that cleared it up for me, which in your experience do you think are the best small tubes out there?

 And are these the large tubes were talking about?
10 x 6S19P-V ( 6S19P-B ) Audiophile Tubes NOS triode - eBay (item 350032606415 end time Jun-01-08 14:59:20 PDT)

 thanks


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks godkin, that cleared it up for me, which in your experience do you think are the best small tubes out there?

 And are these the large tubes were talking about?
10 x 6S19P-V ( 6S19P-B ) Audiophile Tubes NOS triode - eBay (item 350032606415 end time Jun-01-08 14:59:20 PDT)

 thanks_

 

Though I'm still a noob and not as experienced as Godkin is, let me share some thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The tubes in the link are 6S19Ps, but they're Ulyanovsk, not Svetlana.
 However, there's nothing wrong with Ulyanovsk, but many people here prefer Svetlana. Before you buy, make sure to contact the seller asking whether the tube you're buying is the one you really want.

 About the little tubes, from my limited experience, it depends on your preference, but if possible, choose the improved version like 6AK5W, CV4010, M8100, or WE403B (improved version of 6AK5, CV850, EF95, and WE403A respectively). I myself prefer LM Ericssons 403B, but WE403A/B are also good. Though I don't prefer Mullard' sound, I still think you couldn't go wrong with M8100 or CV4010 either.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Though I'm still a noob and not as experienced as Godkin is, let me share some thought. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The tubes in the link are 6S19Ps, but they're Ulyanovsk, not Svetlana.
 However, there's nothing wrong with Ulyanovsk, but many people here prefer Svetlana. Before you buy, make sure to contact the seller asking whether the tube you're buying is the one you really want.

 About the little tubes, from my limited experience, it depends on your preference, but if possible, choose the improved version like 6AK5W, CV4010, M8100, or WE403B (improved version of 6AK5, CV850, EF95, and WE403A respectively). I myself prefer LM Ericssons 403B, but WE403A/B are also good. Though I don't prefer Mullard' sound, I still think you couldn't go wrong with M8100 or CV4010 either._

 


 You mentioned the new improved versions, which company makes all of them?


----------



## Godkin

Yes, those are the tubes to look for. As PrTV says, they are made by the ULYANOVSK factory is Russia, but some, like myself, prefer the SVETLANA made tubes: they sound that little more valve like - lush, euphonic, open with deep and articualte bass; in comparison the ULYANOVSKs sound more, dare I say it, leaner, though they may be slightly more detailed. Anyway, both are better than the stock SHUNGUANG 6S19s.

 Most tube manufacturers, from the likes of MULLARD, ERICCSON, GENERAL ELECTRIC (GE), TUNG-SOL, SYLVANIA, RCA, WESTERN ELECTRIC (WE), RAYTHEON, etc, produce "ordinary" and "improved" tubes: so they will make a 6AK5 and the higher quality 6AK5W; MULLARD will produce a EF95 and also a M8100 or CV4010; WE well sell a 6AK5 or 403A and also sell a 403B. As to which is better, only your ears can tell you: certainly to my ears there are good tubes and exceptional ones. My personal favourites are the RCA JRC 6AK5Ws and WE 403Bs. And the combination with the 6S19Ps is also important: the "lean" sound of the 403Bs goes well with the "lush" SVETLANAs; and the richness of the M8100s compliments the ULYANOVSKs. Experimentation is the answer.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the link to that site but could not find any of the above tubes on there._

 

You have to search for CV4010, not M8100.
 Sorry, my bad.

Antique Electronic Supply


----------



## etteoh

Or search by manufacturer - I searched Mullard and voila, it's there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S. New 332 owner here...got mine three days ago. Spent time burning in and at the same time, catching up on this marvelous thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You guys rock is all I can say.


----------



## mybeat

For my ears with my current setup I found svets with cv4010 the best match.
 I've tried ullys and m8100 and we403b and svets..And to me the svets with cv4010 have the best match, thats with the creative x-fi gamer though...
 I hope that in the week or 2 weeks i'll recive a dac and can give the more impression on the subject , but rght now svets + cv4010 (not m8100) are the best.


----------



## Godkin

Welcome along, Etteoh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Keep us updated on the burn in of your 332.

 Do you find the CV4010s better than the M8100, MyBeat? Certainly, some here, including myself, find that the CV4010s have a different sound signature than the M8100s: they sound crisper, leaner and more forward than the M8100s. Stange. On paper they are the same tube, but in reality they sound different from one another.


----------



## omegaman

Silly question but the output stage on the 332. Is it just a straight through link or is it a amplified output through the amp.

 Cheers


----------



## davve

Can someone explain the diffrence between 6C19P, 6S19P, 6S19P-V, 6S19P-B tubes.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone explain the diffrence between 6C19P, 6S19P, 6S19P-V, 6S19P-B tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

6C19P = 6S19P - the non-miliary version
 6S19P-B = 6S19P-V - military spec version (longer life, more reliable)

 I bought a pack of 8 6S19P's from eBay that turned out to all be 6S19P-B(V)'s.
 This makes me think that there are a lot more mil spec versions out there than non.


----------



## Godkin

It's all to do with the Russian cryllic, Davve. Their "C" is equivalent to our "S", while their "B" is equivalent to our "V". Therefore, the 6C19P (the "C" stands for triode by the way) is the Russian for our 6S19P. The 6S19P-B (the Russian for "P" is "N") is 6S19P-V in English.


----------



## LearJet4

I just joined the 332 club about a week ago and I'm very happy about it. As a newbie to the audiophile community I can't say how this compares to other headphone amps, but it sounds phenominal with my Senns 650s. The construction is extremely solid and looks professional, although I had have some trouble explaining to my friends what the heck it is! As far as I can see the only problem is the desire to want to upgrade the rest of my setup to make it sound even better. FCC Approval would also be nice bonus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm having only one issue now, but it's really the chinese tubes. After about 30/40 minutes of having it on I get a static/clicking sound coming from it. I took the tube covers off and it disappears. However, I have to keep the first one on or I'll get bad multiphonic noise coming from the smaller tube. I really need to get some new tubes ! The only problem with buying tubes is being able to buy from a reputable dealer online and not in Soviet Russia


----------



## Godkin

Hi, LearJet4. Welcome along. You're right about the stock tubes, they're very poor quality indeed. Get rid of them and buy yourself some better quality ones. 

 There're many online shops that sell these tubes. However, a great source for tubes is E-Bay. All types of tubes for the 332 come up for sale or auction there: 6J1P-EVs, 6AK5s, 6AK5Ws, 5654s, EF95s, M8100s and 403Bs to name but a few. With the larger tubes, the 6S19P, it's very hard to buy these without buying from Russia. Most of the dealers on E-Bay from Russia are very reliable. I've certainly had no problems with them.


----------



## mchang

Welcome. I had very good success buying my Western Electric 403B tubes (the small ones) from Vacuum Tubes, Inc. New Audio and Western Electric Tubes for Hi Fi and Guitar Amplifiers. I called in my order, the price was comparable to what I paid on Ebay for my previous set of WE403Bs, no stress of bidding, and the tube boxes were in better condition (which, of course, doesn't translate to better tube quality).

 I'd suggest buying 3+ of any single tube. It took me four WE403Bs and four Svets to find the two of each that were good (i.e., didn't faintly whine or hum).

 As for the larger tubes, I bought a whole box of Svetlanas through an Ebay vendor from the Ukraine. Took awhile to arrive, but otherwise a pretty standard transaction. You just have to make sure they're selling you the exact tube advertised/pictured. Unfortunately, I sold all of the extras awhile ago.


----------



## windrider

am currently considering between 332, 336i, and little dot mkIII or mkIV for my first tube amp.

 Has anyone heard 332s with *HD600* before? I know they are phenomenal with the hd650s and all that, but what about the hd600?

 How does stock 332 + hd600 sound? i'm hoping that it'll tame the highs a tiny little bit, sound smoother, and add more body to the sound. I would prefer to buy the 332 over the 336i but the 332 has a brighter sound if i'm not wrong? Would it be a bad choice if i actually want a smoother sound from the hd600s?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_am currently considering between 332, 336i, and little dot mkIII or mkIV for my first tube amp.

 Has anyone heard 332s with *HD600* before? I know they are phenomenal with the hd650s and all that, but what about the hd600?

 How does stock 332 + hd600 sound? i'm hoping that it'll tame the highs a tiny little bit, sound smoother, and add more body to the sound. I would prefer to buy the 332 over the 336i but the 332 has a brighter sound if i'm not wrong? Would it be a bad choice if i actually want a smoother sound from the hd600s?_

 

Don't hesitate... just get the DV332 - it is phenomenal with the Senns - HD580/600s or HD650s - both are great! The DV332 is "universally acclaimed" with the Senns. I really doubt any of the other amps you've mentioned would even be close.


----------



## G-man

how does this compare to a bijou?


----------



## Godkin

I'll second Gradofan. With the HD600s, the 332 is quite simply superb. For the money, you won't get a better sound. But to really get the best out of it, whip out the stock tubes and replace them with something better. Then it is audio narvana.


----------



## windrider

ok you 2 have just convinced me to get the 332. What would be good tubes to use for hd600?


----------



## Mazuki

I would build a Bijou


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok you 2 have just convinced me to get the 332. What would be good tubes to use for hd600?_

 

My favorites are:

 2 - Svetlana 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Ulynovsk 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Tung Sol 6AK5 or 5654 

 In exchange for Tung Sols - others like in about this order of preference:

 2 - Western Electric 403B
 or
 2 - Mullard 8100 / EF95
 2 - RCA 6AK5 or 5654
 2 - Sylvania 6AK5 or 5654 

 The Tung Sols are a bit hard to find - but they're really great - fast, solid, clear.

 The stock tubes aren't terrible.


----------



## alt0n

How does the 332 synergise with AKG K701? anyone tried this pairing yet?


----------



## Gradofan2

Just to clarify... some of my prior comments... about the D5000s with the DV332 - after the D5000s are fully burnt in, they really sound pretty good with the DV332. 

 My original posts on this pairing were a bit premature - prior to my D5000s being fully burnt in. I originally thought the amp was clipping with my D5000s, because of an impedance miss-match. But, they really do smooth out and tighten up with the DV332 after they complete burn in - perhaps to the point I can just stick with it for all my phones.


----------



## Steph86

Did Svetlana ever make the 6s19p-v tube because I can only seem to find the standard 6s19p made by svetlana. The V versions are all made by Uly?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did Svetlana ever make the 6s19p-v tube because I can only seem to find the standard 6s19p made by svetlana. The V versions are all made by Uly?_

 

They're kinda hard to find. 

 I think I emailed some of the Russian tube vendors on eBay, and inquired. They're are a couple of very good vendors there. 

 But... I wouldn't be too concerned if you can't find the "ruggedized" versions - which is what the "V" indicates. They just have a bit longer life, and may be less prone to microphonics. The life of the regular version is fine, and you're not going to be bouncing your amp around anyway - so you don't really need the "V" version.

 By the way... make sure you confirm with the vendor that the tubes are actually Svets. Some vendors were selling tubes as Svets, which might not have had them. Just as long as they confirm they are, and they have the Svet logo ("C" of "S"), you'll be fine.

Russian Tube Factories and Logos


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My favorites are:

 2 - Svetlana 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Ulynovsk 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Tung Sol 6AK5 or 5654 

 In exchange for Tung Sols - others like in about this order of preference:

 2 - Western Electric 403B
 or
 2 - Mullard 8100 / EF95
 2 - RCA 6AK5 or 5654
 2 - Sylvania 6AK5 or 5654 

 The Tung Sols are a bit hard to find - but they're really great - fast, solid, clear.

 The stock tubes aren't terrible._

 

Hey, let me add my favorite tube, *LM Ericsson 403B*. I compared it with WE 403A/B, Mullard 4010, 850, and EF95, and found that I like LM far more than any other tubes. Actually LMs sound is very close to that of WE403B, but with better/more controlled bass. 

 My only problem is I have too many WE403Bs (around 12 tubes) but can't find any extra LM403B. I don't know why I can't stop bidding those WE403B when seeing it on eBay, though I don't really prefer its sound.


----------



## Godkin

Sounds like the perfect tube, PrTV. One of my favourites is the WE403B, but I recognise its main weakness - its light bass. Not a particular weakness for me since I listen to a lot of acoustic based music. The clarity of the 403Bs, whether they be the LMs or WEs, just can't be matched.


----------



## windrider

I have decided on LM 403B but still undecided about these 3:

 2 - Svetlana 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Ulynovsk 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Tung Sol 6AK5 or 5654 

 Has anyone heard all 3 before? how do they sound compared to each other?


----------



## Godkin

Windrider, with the LM403B the Svetlanas would probably be the best tube. It has a tube richness that compliments the leaness and clarity of the 403Bs. The Ulyanovsks do not really possess that richness, and are much more solid state in character. Their presentation is more neutral - if a tube can be said to be neutral - and detailed. But with the LM403Bs it might verge on being forward, but still excellent. Just depends on what you want.

 The Tung-sol are great tubes, but may match well with the Ulyanovsks. In contrast to the 403Bs, the Tung-sols have the tube richness without lossing any clarity. But with the neutralness of the Ulyanovsks it would be an ideal match.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have decided on LM 403B but still undecided about these 3:

 2 - Svetlana 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Ulynovsk 6S19P-V or 6S19P-B (same tube)
 2 - Tung Sol 6AK5 or 5654 

 Has anyone heard all 3 before? how do they sound compared to each other?_

 

I'm got them all.

 I prefer the Svets and Tung Sols - clear, clean, detailed, tight bass w impact, airy soundstage w precise positioning - not too warm, not too cold - very natural without artificial air & space. Amazing with Senns and Denons.

 Don't recall the sound of the Uly's, but I don't think they're much different than the Svets - maybe a bit softer than the Svets, which are pretty punchy and dynamic, as are the Tung Sols.

 By the way... the Svets or Ulys are used in combination with the Tung Sols or WEs, Mullards, RCAs, etc. 6AK5s, or 5654s.


----------



## PrTv

About the difference in sound signature between Uly (why the name has to be this difficult 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and Svetlana, I agree from my experience with a pair of Svets I got from Zodduska and a pair of Uly I already have, that the difference is very subtle. I mean, the difference is there, but it's difficult to differentiate one from another without A/Bing them.

 It's too bad that DV332 has significantly lesser tube rolling option, comparing to DV336.

*By the way, has anyone tried modding this amp yet?*
 Now I'm really interested in modding this thing, but can't find any guide or information yet. First thing I want to do is changing the pot -like replacing that cheap pot with Apls Blue Velvet, but frankly, I don't know it it's compatible and if it will fit in that small space. 

 If I get enough information, I'll pass it to my dad, who has experience with many amps, tubes and SS, to let him do it for me. Too bad my dad's too busy to observe this thing and find out for me which components to be upgraded and such.

 I saw someone mod their 336, but with 332 I haven't seen such information (yet) anywhere. No love for 332?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About the difference in sound signature between Uly (why the name has to be this difficult 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and Svetlana, I agree from my experience with a pair of Svets I got from Zodduska and a pair of Uly I already have, that the difference is very subtle. I mean, the difference is there, but it's difficult to differentiate one from another without A/Bing them._

 

Yeah... I notice much greater differences when I change the 6AK5/5654s than I do the 6S19s. 

 What differences do you notice between the Svets and Ulys?

 The tube rolling options is about the only reason to upgrade to the DV337 - which I consider occasionally. But... the DV332 sounds so close to the DV337, and I'm so pleased with its sound - I've just not been been motivated enough to upgrade. No doubt the DV332 is the "sweet spot" and a huge bargain - if you can find "your sound" with the limited tube options. I did.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tube rolling options is about the only reason to upgrade to the DV337 - which I consider occasionally. But... the DV332 sounds so close to the DV337, and I'm so pleased with its sound - I've just not been been motivated enough to upgrade. No doubt the DV332 is the "sweet spot" and a huge bargain - if you can find "your sound" with the limited tube options. I did._

 

While all of this may well be the case, does the 332 really sound close to the 337? I was under the impression they sounded quite different (regardless of which may be "better"). I have never heard the 332 so I cannot say, but the 337, which uses 6AS7 power triodes, I would think would deliver a more dynamic sound than the 332 (and indeed the 337's dynamic capabilities are pretty impressive). Anyone actually compared the two?


----------



## Navyblue

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mazuki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would build a Bijou_

 

How does your DV337 compared to your Bijou? Do you own the DV332 as well?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_While all of this may well be the case, does the 332 really sound close to the 337? I was under the impression they sounded quite different (regardless of which may be "better"). I have never heard the 332 so I cannot say, but the 337, which uses 6AS7 power triodes, I would think would deliver a more dynamic sound than the 332 (and indeed the 337's dynamic capabilities are pretty impressive). Anyone actually compared the two?_

 

Yeah... I've heard this from Darkvoice, one of the eBay vendors (don't recall which one), and at least one Headfier - <10% improvement from DV332 and DV337. They refer to the DV332 as the "little DV337."

 This from Jasmine:

 "Hi-end Darkvoice 332 Headphone Tube Amp
 (2007 Brand New Version,nickname :little 337)

 works as good as the Darkvoice 337"


 The DV332 has a very, dynamic and powerful sound - with great clarity a lot like a tube hybrid, or SS with a "tubey" sound.

 I would have thought the DV337 would have sounded more like a more powerful DV336 with its tube complement - a more "tubey" sound than the DV332.

 Mazuki has compared the two.


----------



## Skylab

OK, cool, your description of the 332 does sound a lot like the 337.

 I know Mazuki is pretty high on the 337, so it would be interesting to hear his take on the two - I know I have probably read it before but forgotten


----------



## Godkin

The 332 is ripe for modding. The subject has been raised here before, but no-one, to my knowledge, has yet taken the plunge.

 The cheap carbon pot could go and replaced with an Alps RK27. A stepped attenuator would also be an option - if it would fit. The SCR output caps (33uF) could also go. Larger values could be fitted, making it more compatable with lower impedance headphones. Again, space has to be thought off, as a larger value film cap would take up more room. I'm loathe to fit a electrolytic in this postion, even a good quality one like a NICHICON MUSE or PANASONIC FM. The power smoothing electrolytics in the PSU section could also be upgraded, as well as the power resistors. But at what point does it stop being a 332 and becomes a 3322.

 A more obvious mod is a good quality fuse. I've heard of some getting excellent results with them. That will probably be my next move.


----------



## Gradofan2

A recent discussion re: how to "cool down" the Bada PH-12, caused me to become concerned about the heat of the DV332. 

 After checking it on a few occassions, I noticed its case does get pretty warm to the touch. I had never noticed this before... and... at one point had thought it ran at reasonable temperatures - or, at least it didn't seem as warm as it does now. 

 It has a pretty small chassis to house some pretty big, warm caps, with very little venting to dissipate the heat. 

 So, I experimented with some of the ideas in the PH-12 thread to see if I could "cool 'er down." If so, hopefully the components will last longer. 

 I removed the bottom plate and set the amp on two layers of 1x2 pine strips from Lowes for about $2 - 1 row in the front and one in the back, next to the front and back plates. I stuck them to the bottom with some 3M dual sided tape, and stuck the two layers together with the same, and stuck some rubber furniture cushion pads on the bottom, that I got from WalMart for about $2. 

 This contraption raises the amp about 1 1/2" off the shelf, allowing plenty of air to circulate beneath the amp... and... it does cool it down quite a bit with just convection. 

 But... I removed most of the remaining warmth from the case by placing a small four inch personal fan on the shelf to blow on it - also purchased at WalMart for about $6. As they did for the PH-12, you can buy small 115v component cooling fans at Radio Shack, which could be placed underneath the case to blow up into the interior, but that's a lot more involved, and requires more "jury-rigging," and isn't really necessary.

 "Works like a charm" if you're concerned that your DV332 gets too warm - and I'm sure it will increase component life. 

 By the way... as noted earlier in this thread... the workmanship inside the DV332 is a "real work of art."


----------



## Godkin

Nice one, Gradofan. My 332 heats up badly around the resistors (the large green components) on the front left hand side. Really hot.

 To tell you the truth I really haven't messed around with my 332. I did try to remove the bottom but it wouldn't come off. Is there any special way to remove it?


----------



## PrTv

About the heat issue, I use this method.

 Don't laugh!





 That microphone stand also acts as my headphones' stand, and the amp cools down significantly, the left side is pretty warm though, but not hot in any way.

 I doubt if this method could cool components inside down, since there is no hole anywhere but the top.

 Anyway, has anyone encountered any kind of "real" heat issue with this amp? (I mean when heat really causes some kind of problem like X-Can's overheat issue).

 I remember someone posting some internal pics of DV332 and I could see some burn trace on the internal wire. That wire, I believe, is under the power tubes.


----------



## hawkhead

WRT to modding I have some Nichicon 100v 220uF output caps sitting on my desk ready for next week

 There are also some vibrapods on the way from the USA


----------



## Godkin

As far as I know there has been no problems with excessive heat. The same cannot be said of the early X-CAN V3s. I had one, and the scorching around the transistors on the left hand side was really bad. It was, apparently, a technical flaw: mismatched transistors caused higher currents to well in one side of the amp. In later models, the problem was rectified.

 Those 220uF caps should give you more scope in the way of headphones, Hawkhead. Pink Floyd at the Rock Grotto has experimented with these caps in the 336i with excellent results. He measured the DV amps: stock, they are suited only the high impedance cans, specifically above 250ohms. With the Nichicons fitted they are just about perfect for all headphones, but can drive lower impedances, including Grados at 30ohms.


----------



## Gradofan2

I've not heard of any overheating issues... but... I suppose you could always have some, with any amp that gets pretty warm, and in such a small case with tight fittings.

 My actions were really taken as a precautionary measure - because I became obsessed with the heat being produced by the DV332. I suppose in some respects the warm case, really is "a good thing," because its evidence that the case is acting as a heat sink to draw off the heat from the components. But... I'm much less concerned, now that its totally "cool to the touch."

 The only real disadvantage is the requirement that I make space for the small fan to blow on the amp - it would look much better and save some space, if I'd "jury-rig" the Radio Shack fan into a base for the amp, but... "maybe later" when I have a bit more ambition.

 None of my X-CAN components ever got very warm to the touch - so, I was never very concerned about them.

 Oh yes... the bottom plate just slips off after you've removed the ~10 small screws from the bottom (leaving the rubber feet connected). I suspect your plate may be stuck down by paint. If so, just run an Exacto knife around the plate in the crack between it and the case to loosen the bond and cut the paint so you don't inadvertently pull some of the paint off the outside of the case, when you remove the plate. When it's loose, it will lift right off very easily.


----------



## Gradofan2

By the way... I doubt I'll ever become so ambitious as to "mod" my DV332, by replacing the POT, or Caps, or whatever. 

 But... its sound is so phenomenal... I really don't feel compelled to. 

 And my low impedance phones now sound great. The more I burn it and the rest of my components in... the more all my headphones sound fine with it... including all my low impedance phones. They've pretty well lost their "rough" sound, and of course the Senns are almost incomparable with it. 

 In this regard... the only thing, I'm not sure I fully understand - is why all my phones sound very similar with it - very slight differences in the sound between any of them.


----------



## hawkhead

Hi Godkin - small world - saw the 336 thread and got the caps from Pink Floyd

 shall be posting for help no doubt!


----------



## nor_spoon

I never understood or heard the "roughness" some talk about with Grado's on the 332. I like my RS-1's just as nice as the HD650's using it. Do you think senns (HD650) could be perceived as a bit smoother because of their more laidback, rolled off signature?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never understood or heard the "roughness" some talk about with Grado's on the 332. I like my RS-1's just as nice as the HD650's using it. Do you think senns (HD650) could be perceived as a bit smoother because of their more laidback, rolled off signature?_

 

No... actually... when I first got it... it sounded a bit "rough" with my RS-1s - particularly the upper mids, and sometimes the bass - sounded very much like clipping... a lot like my WA3 had sounded with them. And... my D5000s sounded somewhat the same with it. 

 However, as all these have accumulated more and more hours... it doesn't seem to be as rough as it was with these phones earlier. Though - amps with very low impedance output, do still sound smoother with these low impedance phones (e.g. X-CANv8, etc.).


----------



## nor_spoon

Gradofan: Have you listened to the Zana Deux?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan: Have you listened to the Zana Deux?_

 

No... but... there's very little point for me to do so... since... I intend to never spend that kind of money on any single piece of headphone equipment. I prefer to be able to sell my stuff, in a day, or two, with the greatest loss, I might incur limited to about $50... not hundred$, or thousand$.

 "Not gonna do it... just... not gonna do it."


----------



## nor_spoon

I see, that is a good plan. The reason I ask, is because I have one on order, Lot of people say the HD650 sounds just magnificent with the 332, so I am wondering how big of a difference there actually is between those amps.
 Don't want my expectations to go through the roof while I am waiting, so I kind of prepare for the "worst", but hope for the best if you see what I mean.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nor_spoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see, that is a good plan. The reason I ask, is because I have one on order, Lot of people say the HD650 sounds just magnificent with the 332, so I am wondering how big of a difference there actually is between those amps.
 Don't want my expectations to go through the roof while I am waiting, so I kind of prepare for the "worst", but hope for the best if you see what I mean._

 

They do sound pretty good with the DV332. I had the "old" version of the HD650s, and they sounded pretty good with it - but, I still preferred the "new" HD580/600s. 

 I'm sure they'll sound great with the Zana Deau - I'm sure someone has that combo, that can tell you. I would think they'd sound better with it than the DV332.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In this regard... the only thing, I'm not sure I fully understand - is why all my phones sound very similar with it - very slight differences in the sound between any of them._

 

Maybe this is a good thing, as it will diminish the need to own more than one headphones, since there is no real difference in their sound with this amp anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 By the way, how good is DV332 compared with Mad Ear Purist Maple Tree? My friend is considering getting one of these amps to use with his Senn600 and AKG701. ATM he gravitates toward Maple as it's more expensive and seems to be in higher class. I don't have any idea about how it sounds, so I ask you guys.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Maybe this is a good thing, as it will diminish the need to own more than one headphones, since there is no real difference in their sound with this amp anyway. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 By the way, how good is DV332 compared with Mad Ear Purist Maple Tree? My friend is considering getting one of these amps to use with his Senn600 and AKG701. ATM he gravitates toward Maple as it's more expensive and seems to be in higher class. I don't have any idea about how it sounds, so I ask you guys._

 

I can't tell you... perhaps someone else has compared them.


----------



## Gradofan2

I listen to all you folks describe the sonic differences from one set of tubes to another... as if... there are pretty significant differences. 

 But... I don't know... I just must "have a tin ear" - I have a very difficult time discerning significant differences in any of the tubes, I just rolled through my DV332.

 I just rolled through various 6AK5/8100/5654/etc. tubes: Tung Sols, Mullard/Phillips, RCAs, and Sylvanias... and... I can tell only very minor differences in any of them - certainly <5%. All these matched with my Svet 6C19V-EBs (whatever).

 Some may have very slightly more... detail, or air, or soundstage, or mids, or bass, or impact... but... very, very, very slightly - not enough "to fret over."

 They all sound... absolutely incredible... in the DV332, with my HD580/600s, or any of my phones, with my SA-8001 as the source. 

 I don't know what my problem is... but... perhaps, I'm not the best one to tell anyone, what the sonic differences are in anything.

 But... this entire set up is pretty phenomenal, whatever tubes!

 Which is a damn good reason... I shouldn't be spending any more money... to upgrade anything - I just can't tell the difference!


----------



## Penchum

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listen to all you folks describe the sonic differences from one set of tubes to another... as if... there are pretty significant differences. 

 But... I don't know... I just must "have a tin ear" - I have a very difficult time discerning significant differences in any of the tubes, I just rolled through my DV332.

 I just rolled through various 6AK5/8100/5654/etc. tubes: Tung Sols, Mullard/Phillips, RCAs, and Sylvanias... and... I can tell only very minor differences in any of them - certainly <5%. All these matched with my Svet 6C19V-EBs (whatever).

 Some may have very slightly more... detail, or air, or soundstage, or mids, or bass, or impact... but... very, very, very slightly - not enough "to fret over."

 They all sound... absolutely incredible... in the DV332, with my HD580/600s, or any of my phones, with my SA-8001 as the source. 

 I don't know what my problem is... but... perhaps, I'm not the best one to tell anyone, what the sonic differences are in anything.

 But... this entire set up is pretty phenomenal, whatever tubes!

 Which is a damn good reason... I shouldn't be spending any more money... to upgrade anything - I just can't tell the difference!_

 

Is it possible you might have some upper frequency hearing loss? I only ask this because it is one of those things that you don't notice, and it can happen over a long stretch of time, like several years. My wife (we found out) has some higher frequency loss, plus a little tinnitus (ringing) too. She had no idea anything had happened. No obvious things anyway, like an explosion or fast pressure changes and the like.


----------



## davve

Whats does this russian signify 6С19П-BP mean?
 6S19P-V ?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats does this russian signify 6С19П-BP mean?
 6S19P-V ?_

 

They all disignate the "military grade / ruggedized" version of the 6C19 tubes - just variations in the Russian characters. The Svets are those with the "C" or "S" logo - generally regarded as a wee bit better sounding than the Ulys.


----------



## Godkin

I agree the differences between tubes is very subtle, but they are there. As audio freaks we deal in subtlies. I do not know about you guys but when I hear a new bit of detail on a beloved and much listened to album I get a big kick out of it.

 I am probably not the right person to mask anyway. I had a bad ear infection years ago and my right ear has never been the same again. Bad tinitus and almost deaf at times. Perhaps I should not have said that, I will never be taken seriously again.


----------



## Skylab

Hey guys - someone asked me - will the EF92/6QC6 work well in the 332?

 Thanks in advance...


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys - someone asked me - will the EF92/6QC6 work well in the 332?

 Thanks in advance..._

 

Here's the tube date on the "equivalents." 

TDSL Tube data [6AK5]

TDSL Tube data [5654]

TDSL Tube data [EF95]

 And of course the Mullard M8100...

M8100 @ The National Valve Museum

 I don't think it includes those you noted - though he might compare the spec values to see if they might work.


----------



## Godkin

Both miniature pentodes with the B7G base, but technically different tubes: pin connections are different.

 Just bought some XINDAK silver fuses fro the 332. Let's see how they work out.


----------



## windrider

anyone has any 6s19p, lm ericsson 403b, tung sol 5654/6ak5 that they are willing to part with?

 I just need one pair of each.

 A search on ebay only returns eBay.com.sg: 6C19 Svetlana Triode fÃ¼r SE Alnico Tube amp - 6S19P NOS (item 220251415663 end time Jul 09, 2008 02:11:04 SGT)

 and shipping is really expensive for that.

 I wouldnt mind paying for shipping if a single vendor sells both 6s19p and 5654/403b, but paying for seperate shipping from seperate vendors is kinda expensive.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Both miniature pentodes with the B7G base, but technically different tubes: pin connections are different.

 Just bought some XINDAK silver fuses fro the 332. Let's see how they work out._

 

Yes... "enquiring minds want to know"... as well as... where to buy them...

 FYI... I've seen comments that they reduce the tone body and weight, and bass slam... and... add detail, clarity and air. I guess that would be consistent with silver cables. But... do they remove too much tone body and weight, and bass slam?


----------



## hawkhead

eBay Seller: listeningchina.hifi.cn: silver, Consumer Electronics items on eBay.com


----------



## Gradofan2

Yeah... I realize they can be purchased on eBay... its just that... I would rather not pay $18 to ship a 1 oz item.


----------



## Godkin

Surely, it can't cost $17.99 (£8) to ship a fuse from China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's extortionate. I bought one from a guy down the road from me - well 120 miles away in Dublin.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Surely, it can't cost $17.99 (£8) to ship a fuse from China. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's extortionate. I bought one from a guy down the road from me - well 120 miles away in Dublin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah... it costs about $4 via First Class postage. It may take a week, or 10 days to receive them... but... I can live with that.


----------



## PrTv

Regarding the fuse you're talking about, how much does it cost, and how much improvement it brings about?
 Sorry if this was mentioned anywhere in the thread.

 However, has anyone tried IsoClean fuse? As it's acclaimed one of the best fuse out there (costing around 25$ each). It even got very good review at 6moons.

 By the way, speaking about an upgrade, I've just ordered the Equinox cable from StefanAudioart. I don't know what makes me order a cable that is almost as expensive as the phones itself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure the cable itself is worth its asking price, but only curiosity is whether my components, especially DV332 itself, are good enough to show any perceivable improvement over my stock cable.

 Any Equinox + DV332 users out there? How does it sound (with DV332) compared to the stock cable?


----------



## Steph86

Hi, I received my darkvoice 332 today from casque_hifi (audiophilechina.com) but there appears to be a few problems, and was wondering if I was doing something wrong?

 The package arrived okay, only single boxed but well protected inside, the amp had no physical damage, and looked brand new. However when I lifted it out of the foam supports I could hear something rattling inside the casing of the amp, it sounded like a small screw. I tried to tilt the amp slightly to see if I could dislodge it and hopefully get it to fall through the air vents on the casing, but nothing came out. I therefore decided to leave it and power it up. My computer was off and my zero DAC has not yet arrived so I grabbed my Kenwood (HD60GD9) mp3 player and used an old cable from headphone jack to input on the back of amp. When I plugged in my hd650s and turned it on I was expecting there to be alot of power and volume but at 12-1 O'clock postion it was not that loud. I then tried it though my computer just straight out of the green 3.5mm jack to the amp, but it was even worse had to crank the volume to 3 O'clock to get to normal listening level, and the sound quality was not great. There is a hissing noise which gets louder when passing 11 o'clock, and beacause the music volume is so low I can hear it quite alot. 
 I then had an idea to try and connect my meier move via usb to computer and use the headphone jack on that to darkvoice amp, and the difference was major. so much louder can't go past 9 o'clock without hurting my ears.

 Can anyone shed some light on why this is happening?

 Ps. How do I open the case? what screws do I need to take off? which way does it slide off and do I need to take out the tubes before I do so, hopefully I will be able to remove whatever is loose inside.

 Thanks Steph


----------



## PrTv

Steph86, if I were you I would turn it off right away as rattling sound indicates that there's something wrong inside for sure.

 Maybe some wires get loose due to the shipment.

 Additionally, with HD650, I can't get pass 11.30 without completely damaging my eardrum. Even with the 600 ohms AKG240M, I can't get pass 1.30. So IMO, you should definitely check your amp.

 To open the bottom cover, just unscrew all screws underneath the amp, however, the screws holding rubber feets can be left there. If you still can't take off the cover after all bolts unscrewed, just use a knife to pry it off.


----------



## Godkin

Definately something wrong there for sure. It could have been dropped during shipment. But if you are going to open it - and if you do it will invalidate the guarantee - be careful: there are a lot of high voltages in a tube amp, especially around the PSU section.


----------



## Steph86

I can definately see its a screw, through the vents but its too big for it to drop through. I emailed casque_hifi and they told me to wait until it cooled and then remove the loose screw. So I removed 10 screws from the casing and left the feet on, but I just can't get in. I am putting alot of force and the sides are bending but at the top end and bottom end of the amp its not coming away?


----------



## Steph86

Oh I see now there are 2 more screws under stickers at either end lol sos


----------



## Steph86

Well I have removed the screw from inside and it seems to be the same style as the ones used to hold the base plate in position, it was probably dropped in when they were making it, because i could not see any of this style screw used inside. I checked everything else and there doesn't seem to be any loose conections. So im going to close it all up, and reassess the situation when my zero dac comes.


----------



## Gradofan2

I suspect the sources you used have a lower ouput voltage than standard CDP/DAC output voltage of 2v+ (lower volume output) - which requires more volume from your amp. 

 As far as the "noise / hiss," I suspect it will disappear with burn in. It also may be coming from your sources. 

 You need to get a "real" source, and complete burn in before, making any judgments.


----------



## Steph86

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suspect the sources you used have a lower ouput voltage than standard CDP/DAC output voltage of 2v+ (lower volume output) - which requires more volume from your amp. 

 As far as the "noise / hiss," I suspect it will disappear with burn in. It also may be coming from your sources. 

 You need to get a "real" source, and complete burn in before, making any judgments._

 

Yes I suspect your right, im going to wait untill I get my DAC but I think it should be okay. Just a quick question I got some small Mullard tubes but my large ulys have not arrived yet, will I hear a difference if I put the mullard small tubes in with the stock chinese large tubes? or do you think I should wait for the Ulys to come?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Steph86* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I suspect your right, im going to wait untill I get my DAC but I think it should be okay. Just a quick question I got some small Mullard tubes but my large ulys have not arrived yet, will I hear a difference if I put the mullard small tubes in with the stock chinese large tubes? or do you think I should wait for the Ulys to come?_

 

You'll probably hear a difference - the Mullards should be less harsh, and probably have better bass, and mids, and smoother highs.


----------



## Godkin

Yes, you will hear a difference: the smaller signal tubes affect and improve the sound more than replacing the larger power recifying tubes. The extent of the improvement depend on the tube, though the improvements are subtle: the EF95 is the basic MULLARD tube, the military version of which is the CV850; the better quality MULLARD tube is the M8100 (some tubes are marked PHILIPS because they bought MULLARD), the military version of which is the CV4010. Anyway, they will improve the sound: MULLARDs have a typically tube-like sound, lush and rich, open and detailed, with good bass. The stock 6J1s sound harsh and thin in comparison.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Just search for EF95 on ebay and you'll get lots of results, the very popular Little Dot Mk-series uses the same driver tubes so there's a market for the EF95/6J1 out there. I also couldn't agree more with Godkin that the stock 6J1 is incredibly bad sounding and should be replaced with higher quality tubes like the Mullard M8100 or at least the Voshod 6J1 which is the Russian mil-spec equalvalent.

 - DoA


----------



## Godkin

Xindak 2 Amp silver fuse arrived this morning. Fitted perfectly. Working perfectly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Haven't given it a proper listening, so I'll hold off on any comments, but the top-end does appear better: there's a sparkle and definition present that wasn't there before and perhaps a bit more openess.


----------



## bOUddha

PrTv-

  Quote:


 Any Equinox + DV332 users out there? How does it sound (with DV332) compared to the stock cable? 
 

I started my HD-650s with a Cardas cable, using the stock cable to replace the one on my HD-600s, so I can't say exactly how the SAA compares to the stock. I can say that as skeptical as I was about the difference any high-end cable might make, I was stunned by the Equinox. Completely different headphones! Soundstage is now floor to ceiling and wall-to-wall. I've had the SAA for a couple of months now, and I still can't get over the improvement.

 You WILL like...


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PrTv-



 I started my HD-650s with a Cardas cable, using the stock cable to replace the one on my HD-600s, so I can't say exactly how the SAA compares to the stock. I can say that as skeptical as I was about the difference any high-end cable might make, I was stunned by the Equinox. Completely different headphones! Soundstage is now floor to ceiling and wall-to-wall. I've had the SAA for a couple of months now, and I still can't get over the improvement.

 You WILL like...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for your impression, bOUddha.

 He said it's scheduled to be shipped on 19 this month, so it might reach me at the end of the month. Man! your impression makes the wait even worse.


----------



## nor_spoon

Even though the Equinox is an improvement over the stock cable, IMO the improvements are subtle.


----------



## dhammavijaya

My experience matches that of nor_spoon.


----------



## BigTony

I ordered my 332 on Monday, so i'm getting all excited!
 I bought some NOS tubes, Mullard 8100, and i wondered about amp burn in. Should i burn in using stock tubes, or put in my NOS tubes right away?

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered my 332 on Monday, so i'm getting all excited!
 I bought some NOS tubes, Mullard 8100, and i wondered about amp burn in. Should i burn in using stock tubes, or put in my NOS tubes right away?

 Cheers

 BT_

 

Should not make a difference. You could leave them in for a while and have a listen. Then, swap them for the better ones and see what difference it makes. Do not worry about burning in the amp, just listen and enjoy is my advice


----------



## Godkin

I second the advice of Nor Spoon. Enjoy.


----------



## magnetiq

Hi, i've had mine for a few days, but as I didn't have a spare power cable I thought I had it's only been about about a day/two days that i've had it playing. 

 I'm using Uly 6S19P-V and CV4010s with HD650s - BUT, i'm a bit worried/annoyed because I can't hear much of a difference between this and the headphone amp on my Zero DAC! Please tell me burn-in is affecting this, but even so there should be an audible difference right? I hope I just have ****ty ears..


----------



## Zodduska

Congrats on your 332. Burn-in helps a bit but in my experience the CV4010 sounded a little sterile and solidstate for my taste. I would suggest trying one of the 403B (either Western Electric or LM Ericsson) for a more lush tubey sound.


----------



## magnetiq

I see, thanks for the hasty reply mate.

 I've had about 15 hours of solid burn-in time so, I am a very fickle person (just worried about money!) btw so do not be surprised if in a few days i'm raving about this amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 **just bought matched pair of TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws, lucky find I guess. Couldn't find a 2 403B to buy together though..


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, i've had mine for a few days, but as I didn't have a spare power cable I thought I had it's only been about about a day/two days that i've had it playing.




_

 

Power cable? do i need a power cable, don't tell me it doesn't ship with one 

 BT


----------



## magnetiq

Well, first I ordered from *Jamine* but after 6 weeks he was unable to supply me with one (I just checked he now has them available AND he offered me 10% off! grr, i digress lol) so I had to go with *casque_hifi* (who took a long time too whilst more expensive, even before the earthquake) and they didn't send me a power cable!


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 **just bought matched pair of TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws, lucky find I guess. Couldn't find a 2 403B to buy together though.._

 

Just wait and a good pair (or two) usually shows up on eBay every month.
 Alternatively, you could get a pair of 403A as its sonic quality is almost identical to that of 403B. Actually, I can't differentiate between the two. Only difference between the two is the MTBF, as 403B lasts longer and uses lower power to light-up the cathode.

 I; however, don’t think the operational time is important as the tube for this amp, even the rare LM Ericsson, is not expensive and I’m sure that even the shorter-life 403A could live for no less than 5 years of constant use. So just get what you can now and enjoy the good sound.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_**just bought matched pair of TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws, lucky find I guess. Couldn't find a 2 403B to buy together though.._

 

Nice find, those are supposedly really good sounding tubes with the 332 but I havent had a chance to hear them myself.


----------



## G-E

Received my 332 yesterday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My setup; pc (ASIO) spdif coax > cheapish cable > TEC TC-7510 > Blue jeans IC > DV 332 > HD650 with Equinox LE cable.

 Im pretty happy so far. 

 Compared to the amp i used till now, the xiang sheng 708b (unmodded, tesla tubes), the 332 has WAY more control over the sounds, it doesn't chocke when there's lots of stuff going on. Also the soundstage is bigger, and more precise positioning of instruments.

 It is build like a brick, espesially compared to the xiang sheng which feels like folded paper  

 Only downside so far is that the lower midrange sounds a bit muffled/flat, and the sound is not as involving as the sound of the xiang. The amp is still running with the stock tubes, I guess replacement tubes can change the sound a fair bit.

 But overall im enjoying the amp as it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 very easy and relaxing listening.

 Question, if i want to swap tubes after use, howlong do u recommend i let the amp cool down?


----------



## Godkin

Welcome along, G-E. Hope you're enjoying the 332. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And you're right, changing the tubes, especially the smaller signal amplifiers, will improve the sound. How you want to improve the sound depends on the tubes you put into the 332: the MULLARD EF95s and M8100 have a richer sound signature, while the WESTERN ELECTRIC 403Bs are leaner with bags of detail and clarity.

 As you know, the 332 does get pretty warm. I would leave it for about 1hr before changing the tubes.


----------



## magnetiq

I'm risking looking like a muppet but,

 if using a headphone amp with a dac (like a preamp), is one of them supposed to be at full volume?

 I read that in this thread somewhere as i'm getting frustrated comparing the 332 to my Zero for differences (been going back and forth like a lunatic). 

 When i put the DV at full volume and controlled it with the Zero I _*think*_ everything opened up and I was finally hearing the dv how i should have been from the start. The problem is it may be placebo so I want to make sure whether this does make a difference from you guys before I end up wasting another day instead of doing resit work!!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm risking looking like a muppet but,

 if using a headphone amp with a dac (like a preamp), is one of them supposed to be at full volume?

 I read that in this thread somewhere as i'm getting frustrated comparing the 332 to my Zero for differences (been going back and forth like a lunatic). 

 When i put the DV at full volume and controlled it with the Zero I *think* everything opened up and I was finally hearing the dv how i should have been from the start. The problem is it may be placebo so I want to make sure whether this does make a difference from you guys before I end up wasting another day instead of doing resit work!!_

 

Someone else who uses a PC as a source, may better help you... but... I would adjust all volume levels on the PC to the max... and then control the volume with the DV332. 

 Though... I suppose it could be that the output voltage from the PC is too low to mate well with the DV.


----------



## magnetiq

No i'm using the external Zero DAC/Amp,

 it's fine though, i did some comparing and there wasn't any discernable difference..

 If the new valves I ordered also make no difference I'm just going to return/sell it and look for something else - perhaps I have really rubbish ears


----------



## windrider

u sure u're connecting them correctly?

 u're connecting the coaxial outputs on the back of zero to the inputs on dv332 right?


----------



## magnetiq

lol yes, i'm not stupid.

 I'm still trying different things, but the way people compare even different tubes/valves amazes me as I can't hear any difference between ss and tube!

 Testament to Zero though, what a great little dac/amp.


----------



## Zodduska

Does the Zero not have regular RCA Line-outs? Normally when you connect a DAC to an AMP with line-out it should bypass the DAC's built in amp and it's volume control should have no effect.


----------



## nor_spoon

If I remember correctly, and I am pretty sure I do, the volume control on the Zero did not have any effect when connected to the DV332.

 [EDIT] Had to try, and yes, nothing happens when dialing the knob on the Zero. If the Phone/Preamp button is pushed the sound bleeds through to the DV332, but very low in the background.[/EDIT]


----------



## magnetiq

you can control it when the headphone button is pressed down.


----------



## magnetiq

omg

 I am an utter and complete moron, please disregard every comment I made recently - the DV332 is ****ing amazing and I love it to bits.

 This is what basically happened, when i was comparing the zero's headamp to the 332's, I was listening to the DV322 plugged into the zero, and when listening to the zero it was connected to my soundcard - how stupid can you get.

 When that finally occured to me I got my Xonar soundcard back and finally I was hearing what I should have been from the start! Sooo happy


----------



## nor_spoon

So, what you are saying, is that you prefer the dac in the Sonar rather than the dac in the Zero?


----------



## magnetiq

Yes very much so, zero made everything sound sterile and clinical if you know what I mean.

 But when I started the 332 with the Xonar, I was blown away. Particularly when I was listening to a madonna track and heard instrument seperation I didn't know was there, I was hearing an instrument to my left for the first time! 

 Man the 332 is awesome, if I had sold it and then realised my mistake I would have been furious/inconsolable.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol yes, i'm not stupid._

 

... as you were saying...


----------



## magnetiq

yes I am a bit stupid lol


----------



## BigTony

My 332 arrived safe and sound today, but I came down with a sinus infection over the weekend and my ears hurt! Bahhhhh.

 Still I set everything up and had a tiny listen (just to check) and it sounds wonderful just out of the box, what on earth will it sound like when run in with some nice NOS tubes and ears that don't throb!

 Thanks to Head-Fi, all the posts on here gave me the confidence to buy direct from China and to buy an excellent amp. Of course I've spent more than I was supposed to, but what the hell; buy good gear at the start so you don't wish you'd bought better 6 months down the line, resulting in that old 'upgrade itus' fever. Thanks again, I'll have to go lie down and dream 'of imaginary guitar notes'.

 BT


----------



## windrider

if the volume knob on zero affects the volume when you're using dv332 as amp, its actually double amping right?


----------



## Godkin

Great when it all comes together, Magnetiq. Audio nirvana. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Welcome, Big Tony. Hope you ears stop hurting soon so that you can enjoy your new 332.


----------



## MaloS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if the volume knob on zero affects the volume when you're using dv332 as amp, its actually double amping right?_

 

No, its double attenuating.


----------



## windrider

I'm thinking at the moment: is it safe place this amp on top of the zero? am wondering if the heat from placing them together would damage them in some way.


----------



## nor_spoon

Probably not a good idea. The DV332 gets very hot. Does it fit on top of a Zero?


----------



## Gradofan2

I wouldn't stack the DV332... it gets pretty warm... and really may even need additional "cooling." See my prior post in one of the DV332 threads, describing how I cooled mine (e.g. removed the bottom plate, elevated it, and trained a 4 inch portable fan on it - WalMart) - way cooler now.


----------



## windrider

Ok i took it off the zero. Is there anyway i can know whether its running at a "safe" temperature? As it is right now i cant leave my finger on it for more than 1 or 2 seconds. Is it safe to leave it on forever?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok i took it off the zero. Is there anyway i can know whether its running at a "safe" temperature? As it is right now i cant leave my finger on it for more than 1 or 2 seconds. Is it safe to leave it on forever?_

 

The DV332 gets quite hot. You should *never* leave it on when not around. Hot tubes are in the open, which could start a fire.


----------



## G-E

Received some NOS RCA EF95 black plates, and some NOS Sylvanias 6AK5 blackplates, both advertised as being made in the 60's.

 I like them both over the small stock tubes. 

 The RCA's make the soundstage HUUUUGE, with very much air between instruments and voices. The individual intruments/voices lack body, and the space between them is too big for my taste. The positioning is weird on many tracks, intruments to far spread, voices far in the distance. I think they are very analitycal, not so musical. While listening to them its way to easy to hear errors/flaws in recordings. Sadly they made half my music collection (many mp3, but lossless files too) sound like crap, and made it very hard to get involved in the music. One thing i could really appreciate tho, is that it revealed aucoustics in good recordings, the sense that u can almost see and smell the envoirement the track was recorded in, never heard that before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The Sylvanias on the other hand, sound very musical. Less soundstage, less seperation, more warmth, easier to listen to, and way more involving than the RCA's. I will keep the Sylvanias in for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now to patiently wait till the 6S19P ULys and Mullards m8100 that i ordered arrive, and see how they impact the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Btw, i have a AKG 501 on the way, 120 Ohm, anyone has heard these cans on the 332?


----------



## magnetiq

I'm still waiting for the Svets to come to see if they make any difference, but I got a surprise when the Tung Sol's came in this morning..

 ..erm, wow! Now _this_ is what I've been looking for, I'm glad I went through all that nonsense because I now appreciate how much better the sound is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 They are so very musical, I can't stop listening - I _think_ I'm hearing details in the music accentuated with these, soundstage is nice and wide too. They've smoothed out some of the shrill vocals at the high-end which is the biggest plus for me whilst still keeping the sound crisp, and the bass seems 'wholesome' if you understand that. Very happy with these valves, i'm honestly so content now, I love this amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## davve

i received my svets 6S19P-V today. so far so good. Both WE 403b and CV4010 sounds good. WE 403b has some odd bass .I have some LM Ericsson on way too. Is the tung-sol 5654 best?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i received my svets 6S19P-V today. so far so good. Both WE 403b and CV4010 sounds good. WE 403b has some odd bass .I have some LM Ericsson on way too. Is the tung-sol 5654 best?_

 

Don't know whether they're "the best"... but... they're great! 

 Very rich, textured, solid sound.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i received my svets 6S19P-V today. so far so good. Both WE 403b and CV4010 sounds good. WE 403b has some odd bass .I have some LM Ericsson on way too. Is the tung-sol 5654 best?_

 

All are very good tubes. I have not heard the Tung-Sol 5654, but of the rest, I prefer the M8100 (CV4010), and the Ericsson's. I think the WE's are a bit odd too, but many here like them


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G-E* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...

 Btw, i have a AKG 501 on the way, 120 Ohm, anyone has heard these cans on the 332?_

 

My current favorite headphones on the DV332 along with the K340. The Mullard M8100 is excellent with the K501, but I think the Tung-Sol 6AK5W is even better since the K501 needs a little bit more help in the bass region than other phones.


----------



## magnetiq

Has anyone tried the following brands of tube yet??

 VOSHOD
 General Electric
 VALVO


----------



## Godkin

The VOSHKOD 6J1P-EV are good tubes, but in my 332 they hummed like crazy. VALVOs are quite rare, but they do come up for auction on E-Bay the odd time. I've been on the brink of buying them a few times, but I've either pulled out at the last minute or been outbid.

 I've bought four AEG/TELEFUNKEN 6AK5Ws, so I can't wait to see how they sound. TELEFUNKEN have an awesome reputation in the tube world, so it sound be "intertesting".


----------



## magnetiq

Telefunken eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see valvos on ebay, but a bit hesitant :/ Also see Delcos, priced similar to mullards.

 *I think i found the AEG valves, very nice price but i'll wait to hear your reaction


----------



## Godkin

I've a pair of TELEFUNKEN ECL85s running in my little DV FIGARO. Great sound, but very much on the leaner and detailed side of the tube sound spectrum: they don't have the tube lushness or warmth, but I love them. Always wanted a pair to try, so we'll see.


----------



## PrTv

Speaking about fuse upgrade, today I've just bought the ISOclean fuse, and I can say that it makes significant differences. I find that the amp sounds more open; and instrument separation is way better. Additionally, this fuse even reveals something I haven't heard with the stock fuse.

 IMO its performance justifies the asking price (around $25).

 By the way, when I removed the old fuse, I saw "Fuse 1A" printed at the fuse box, but when I took out the stock fuse, I found F3AL fuse inside the fuse box. I don't know why the factory-installed fuse is way higher than the rated spec.

 However, when I took the fuse to the shop the seller told me that it's _possible_ that the amp was designed to use with "Slow Blow Fuse" and that "Fuse 1A" was for slow-blow type. This is why they installed F3AL, which is Fast Act 3 Amp fuse, since 1A slow blow is equal to 3A fast act.

 I don't know if he's correct, but I think it's also possible that the manufacturer just ignored the rated spec and installed that F3AL. 

 If any of you still use that stock fuse, could you please let me know if fuse installed in your unit is fast or slow type, as well as its rated amp?

 FYI
 "F" = Fast type
 "T" = Time delay, which is Slow type


----------



## Zodduska

Interesting info about the fuses PrTv. When I get home after work I'll check which my amp has and report back here.


----------



## davve

Mine has a F3AL250v. Where did you bought ISOclean fuse?


----------



## PrTv

Thanks for your reply, davve.
 It seems you got the same fuse as I.

 Could you tell me what's printed over your fuse box?

 I checked that piece of paper, well, manual actually, and found this






 In the manual it's 3A fuse.

 But when looking at the backside of my amp, I found this





 It seems the fuse pre-installed in the amp is in accordance with those specified in the manual (but not with what screened on the casing).

 So what should I believe, the manual, or the amp casing?

  Quote:


 Where did you bought ISOclean fuse? 
 

I bought mine from a distributor in my country. In your case, I checked ISOCLEAN website but couldn't find any dealer in Sweden, but you can try making contact with the distributor in US or Canada to see if they will ship to Sweden.

 Here is the link.
ISOCLEAN POWER

 By the way, in addition to ISOCLEAN there are many good alternative such as Furutech (Japan), or Hifi-Tuning (German). Some say these two are superior to ISOCLEAN, but more expensive, of cource.


----------



## davve

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply, davve.
 It seems you got the same fuse as I.

 Could you tell me what's printed over your fuse box?

 I checked that piece of paper, well, manual actually, and found this





 In the manual it's 3A fuse.

 But when looking at the backside of my amp, I found this





 It seems the fuse pre-installed in the amp is in accordance with those specified in the manual (but not with what screened on the casing).

 So what should I believe, the manual, or the amp casing?



 I bought mine from a distributor in my country. In your case, I checked ISOCLEAN website but couldn't find any dealer in Sweden, but you can try making contact with the distributor in US or Canada to see if they will ship to Sweden.

 Here is the link.
ISOCLEAN POWER

 By the way, in addition to ISOCLEAN there are many good alternative such as Furutech (Japan), or Hifi-Tuning (German). Some say these two are superior to ISOCLEAN, but more expensive, of cource._

 


 Thanks for the help, over the fuse it is printed 1A like your. Wich fuse did you buy? 1A or 3A? there are diffrent sizes on the fuses too.


----------



## Godkin

I fitted a 2 Amp Xindak silver fuse and it does bring about improvements, especially in the top-end which has more detail, definition and sparkle. There is also more openness. Unlike PrTV with his high quality fuse, the improvement wasn't significant but it was noticeable, and along with the better tubes, tube dampers, quality ICs, etc, fine tunes the 332 into an even better amp than it already is.


----------



## PrTv

It's 20mm type.

 As you said yours is 3Amp Fast Acting type, I suspect what the seller told me should be true, 1A rate must be for Slow blow type. Since ISOClean has no Fast Acting model, I think you should get the 1A 20mm type.

 I however bought 1.6A just because 1A fuse was out of stock at that time. I know that using a fuse higher than the suggested rate could harm the amp as the fuse may not open fast enough to prevent any damage, so, if you want to be on the safe side, just use the fuse with suggested amp.

 However, if you want to be more sure by using the fuse with exact same spec as what pre-installed, you may need to get other brand that makes Fast Acting fuse. In this case, I suggest Hifi-Tuning, but it's a bit more expensive.

 This is a good place for buying HiFi-Tuning.
Hi-fi Tuning Fuses - Parts ConneXion


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I fitted a 2 Amp Xindak silver fuse and it does bring about improvements, especially in the top-end which has more detail, definition and sparkle. There is also more openness. Unlike PrTV with his high quality fuse, the improvement wasn't significant but it was noticeable, and along with the better tubes, tube dampers, quality ICs, etc, fine tunes the 332 into an even better amp than it already is._

 

Godkin, is your Xindak Fast type or Slow type?
 This is interesting since the stock is F3A, whilst the manual says 1A. If you can use F2A without any problem, we may be able to conclude that that "1A Fuse" on the casing means F1A. And it also helps others when they decide which type of fuses to buy.


----------



## Zodduska

Just checked and mine is the same as everyone elses, 3A Fast with the outside of the amp marked 1A.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just checked and mine is the same as everyone elses, 3A Fast with the outside of the amp marked 1A._

 

Ditto...


----------



## magnetiq

Me three.


----------



## Zodduska

Here is another place to buy the HiFi-Tuning 3A Fast fuse: HiFi-Tuning - Fuse - Small - System Enhancements


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the HiFi-Tuning fuse here: HiFi-Tuning - Fuse - Small - System Enhancements_

 

Since all of us got F3AL fuse, maybe that 1A on the casing is just an error and the amp should use 3A Fast Blow as indicated in the manual. 

 In that case, Zodduska, the link you provided seems to be more appropriate since it's exactly the same type of fuse as described in the manual and what we found in our system. Plus, as I said, some said Hifi-Tuning is superior.

 By the way, I did some search about Xindak fuse and found that it's Fast Blow type. It's interesting since Godkin use 2A Fast Blow type with his unit without any problem (fuse could blow prematurely if its rated amp is too low).


----------



## Zodduska

I agree PrTv, I figured since we all have 3A already it shouldnt hurt to swap out for the same value. Lower rating should be ok as long as it doesnt blow for no reason, but higher than 3A could be dangerous.


----------



## BigTony

Re : The Fuse.

 Help me out here, how can the fuse effect (or affect) the sound?

 My basic knowledge of the circuit is that the fuse is designed to prevent a surge of power from 'swamping' the device, from either a short in the device or a surge down the mains. Clearly there is a fuse in the power cable, and then a fuse in the device, usually as a backup, or a fast burn to prevent possible harm.

 Given that the fuse is on the AC side of the circuit, and that the amplification is on the DC side, how does the fuse change anything, acoustically?

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## G-E

I remember reading multiple times that when a tube amp is powered on, u should always have have speakers/headphones connected to it. 

 What would be the best to do when one wants to swap headphones on a 332, power it off and then swap headphones? Or is turning down the volume to 0% good enough?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G-E* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember reading multiple times that when a tube amp is powered on, u should always have have speakers/headphones connected to it. 

 What would be the best to do when one wants to swap headphones on a 332, power it off and then swap headphones? Or is turning down the volume to 0% good enough?_

 

Acutally... I've had no problems with mine... swapping phones just by stopping play of the source... and... unplugging one set and plugging in another, without adjusting the POT setting, except for differences in volume by with various phones. 

 I suppose, you could turn down the POT... but... I don't think that's necessary, once you've stopped the source.

 I have no idea... if... my procedure is risking damage to my amp, or phones... but... I don't think it is.


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Re : The Fuse.

 Help me out here, how can the fuse effect (or affect) the sound?

 My basic knowledge of the circuit is that the fuse is designed to prevent a surge of power from 'swamping' the device, from either a short in the device or a surge down the mains. Clearly there is a fuse in the power cable, and then a fuse in the device, usually as a backup, or a fast burn to prevent possible harm.

 Given that the fuse is on the AC side of the circuit, and that the amplification is on the DC side, how does the fuse change anything, acoustically?

 Cheers

 BT_

 

This is a very opinionated subject, Is it a placebo effect or do these things improve the sound ? My personal thought is that cables on AC cannot alter the sound and if they do I also would like to know how ?, although I have to admit I have never tried. I will hold my judgement until I have heard a 332 with upgraded power cable and fuse.

 I do feel that out going cables and interconnects can make a difference as these are on the analogue side.

 Like I say I have not heard one so all the above can be ignored its just my thought. I think changing the tubes makes the biggest difference.


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G-E* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember reading multiple times that when a tube amp is powered on, u should always have have speakers/headphones connected to it. 

 What would be the best to do when one wants to swap headphones on a 332, power it off and then swap headphones? Or is turning down the volume to 0% good enough?_

 

I turn mine down to zero and have never had a problem. I do this to protect the headphones from any feedback when plugging in and also different headphones need different volume settings so its always better to start from the bottom and work your way up.


----------



## magnetiq

Every single review or comment over on various forums/bulletins on the Isoclean 24k fuse has been overwhelmingly positive, I'm about to purchase one (If I can find a link).

 Some people believe using a rating slightly higher than the recommended spec yields better results? So I think i'll get the 1.6 too although I do realise using a rating higher than suggested can blow your fuse or whatever - but a .6 increase shouldn't be _that_ bad hopefully.


----------



## omegaman

I would suggest you get a 3 amp like the one in there now, Like the posts a page or 2 back it looks like the label on the back is incorrect. I would replace it with the factory fitted size.

 Also I am awaiting your impression's when you get it ?


----------



## magnetiq

But it's slow blow, PrTv posted his impressions on page 155 and said 1A slow blow is about equivelent to 3A fast blow?


----------



## omegaman

Normally fast acting fuses are used with electronic / audio equimpment.


----------



## PrTv

Firstly let me clarify that that what I said earlier was information the seller informed me.

 In my understanding, it's true that if you install 1.6V slow blow in a system designed for 3V fast act fuse, the system can still function, but the fact that it works doesn't always mean it's safe.

 I did some research and found that "slow blow and fast act are not interchangeable" due to the difference in their characteristic. I don't speak about the difference in sonic quality or functionality between the two, but I talk about the safety. If you replace the 3A fast act fuse in your DV with 1.6A slow blow, though the amp is still function properly, when something wrong happens, those slow blow fuse might not open fast enough to prevent any possible damage. 

 To be safe, I would suggest you choose HiFi-Tuning, which is fast act type, instead.

 I myself may keep my ISOClean for now and might change to the "correct type" when opportunity arises, as my dad assure me that it's really, really rarely that something wrong could really happen to a headphone amp like this and damage anything in the chain. Plus, if it were to happen, even though the correct fuse is installed, with its rated amp (3A) it couldn't open fast enough to prevent any damage anyway. I understand that this paragraph in only for "me" since I really just can't recommend that to anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyway, I'll surely let you guys know if my dad is wrong and if I actually damage my amp because of his advice (but judging from his experience in related fields, I highly doubt that he would talk nonsense).


----------



## PrTv

About that Xindak fuse, I just realised that there is a local distributor in my country. That shop is not far from my place and the fuse is B300 ($8.8). 

 I will visit the shop soon and let you guys know the difference between $8.8 fuse and $25 fuse. Man, how could I overlook that shop (they also carry some nice Chinese dacs like CityPulse and Yulong).


----------



## magnetiq

Yeah I ended up doing a lot of research and ordered a xindak one off ebay last night (2A and 6A are the only ones they seem to produce) after I read a few cynical reactions to the isoclean.


----------



## Gradofan2

The comments / reviews of the following fuses are "all over the map" - Isoclean, HiFi Tuning, Furetech, etc. Most seem to report that both the Isoclean and HiFi Tuning do make a noticeable improvement in the sound - though, the comments seem to very slightly favor the Isoclean fuses (which are now $35, plus shipping). 

 For the US, the Xindak fuses are really too expensive, relative to the IsoClean and HiFi Tuning fuses (about $25 vs about $40 and $30, including shipping). The IsoClean and HiFI Tuning fuses seem like they're better made and, of course, have many more reviews, which are virtually all positive.

 For me, in the US, I think I'll try the HiFi Tuning fuses (cost is about the same).... if... I try any of them. Seems like a pretty high cost for a fuse - I'm a bit skeptical that the improvement in sound, can really justify the high cost - though, all the professional reviews, seem to report they do.

 And... yes... I would get the 3A fast-blo version, because that's what works well in the amp stock from the factory.

 We'll see...


----------



## magnetiq

I've developed some noise in the right channel all of a sudden, but it disappears if i touch the rear of the amp - grounding issue??

 What does this mean, and any remedies?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've developed some noise in the right channel all of a sudden, but it disappears if i touch the rear of the amp - grounding issue??

 What does this mean, and any remedies?_

 

Sure sounds like it is.

 I'd try all the usual solutions (e.g. cheater plug(s) on my components - one at at time, separate outlets, etc.)... or... you might simply tape a piece of wire (with the tip bared to the rear of the case, and the other end (with the tip bared) to something metal, which may be grounded, or serve as a ground (not another component).


----------



## magnetiq

Thanks for the tip *Gradofan2*, I'll try that if it happens again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I played some music and it went away, even during the silent bits if a file was playing. Hasn't come back since too, weird.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the tip *Gradofan2*, I'll try that if it happens again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I played some music and it went away, even during the silent bits if a file was playing. Hasn't come back since too, weird._

 

Though it may be a grounding issue it seems odd that it was only in one channel, unless it is an internal problem. All of the ground loop humm issues I've had have all been uniform across channels.

 This could also be a tube microphonics issue. Somtimes when I listen to my 332 turned up with a muted source I can hear the tubes make a little noise.. even with my tube dampeners installed, when i touch the dampener on the responsible tube it gets quiet again.
 I havent tried to see if touching the amp stops the microphonic ringing yet.

 Can you describe the noise you heard magnetiq?


----------



## Zodduska

Another thing I've noticed is that my 332 picks up my cellphone's signals quite audibly when I place it near the amp.. sort of interesting to hear actually, an incoming text message sounds like a short pink noise/dial-up modem squelch.

 When I put the phone on the other side of my desk about 4 feet away it's no longer a problem.


----------



## magnetiq

I think it was white noise but not loud and intermittent, from what I recall..


----------



## Gradofan2

Right... if it's not a hum heard in both channels, its unlikely to be a ground issue.

 If its white noise, or pink noise in one channel... it's possibly a tube issue. 

 I've had this occur once, perhaps. It dissappeared, when I turned the amp off and back on, and hasn't recurred. I have no idea, what it was. Might have been cell phone interference... but... that likely would have been heard in both channels, also. Or, it could be a tube that's beginning to fail. Who knows.

 I've also had slight tube hum, or noise, in my WA3, which resulted from tubes that weren't seated tightly. I resolved it, by cleaning the pins, and carefully and gently spreading the tube pins a bit to improve the contact.


----------



## magnetiq

Yeah I guess, the only reason I asked was it went away if I touched the amp..

 Also another thing, do your amps/tubes make pinging sounds when you power it down? Hope that's normal..


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I guess, the only reason I asked was it went away if I touched the amp..

 Also another thing, do your amps/tubes make pinging sounds when you power it down? Hope that's normal.._

 

I've never noticed such sounds. That sounds like it could be tube microphonics - I've read some tubes will do that, if they're inclined to be microphonic. 

 I guess I wouldn't worry too much about such intermittent "gremlins," if they don't persist, and interfere with the sound quality. 

 I'm sure the vendor will honor the warranty, if you have any real problems with the amp. Though, if you do, the cost of shipping it back to China, may incline you to just repair it locally. It's a simple amp to repair / upgrade - so, it may be more practical to just do that, if you have any issues. Warranties are a bit irrelevant, on low cost items, when it costs so much to ship them back - unless, you've got some major issue, and they're replacing the amp with a new one.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I guess, the only reason I asked was it went away if I touched the amp..

 Also another thing, do your amps/tubes make pinging sounds when you power it down? Hope that's normal.._

 

About those pinging sounds, my LM 403B also make that sound when the amp is turned off. In my case, only left channel generates that kind of sound. However, I haven't experienced this thing with WE403A/B, GE5654, Mullard 4010/EF95.


----------



## magnetiq

No way i'm sending this baby back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's gotten really good now, I was just wondering out of curiosity - that and i hope the valves don't blow up in my face!! haha


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *magnetiq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also another thing, do your amps/tubes make pinging sounds when you power it down? Hope that's normal.._

 

 you mean ones that you can hear directly from the amp itself? I hear a few intermittent "ping" sounds when the tubes are warming up and cooling down (a few min after turning it on on or off), I think it has to do with the tubes expanding and contracting from the heat. I can hear it both through the phones and directly from the amp.. kinda neat actually I wouldnt worry about it


----------



## magnetiq

oh good hear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Got the svets today, first thing I noticed was I could turn the volume all the way up and it was completely silent. Will do some comparing later, I _think_ hear some differences but can't be sure..


----------



## PrTv

Today I went to the shop selling Xindak fuse and bought one of that F2A fuse.

 I think, compared to the stock fuse and ISOClean fuse, this Xindak fuse definitely has its place, as I could hear some improvements in treble and bass departments when this fuse was swapped in. This fuse, however, pales in comparison with ISOClean as the improvements brought about by ISOClean are more significant (bass, attack, and treble).

 However, with its low price tag in my country (around 8.8-9$) one can’t go wrong with this fuse. But if you have to spend more, like 18-20$, I think getting ISOClean or Hifi-Tuning fuse might be better.

 The above is my impression only, and note that the fuse hasn’t fully burnt-in yet


----------



## davve

have got my LM Ericsson 403B's made for CANADIAN GENERAL ELECTRIC. they also have pinging sound in left channel, when i turn off the amp.


----------



## Godkin

Thanks for your comparison, PrTV. Your conclusions seem to support my own in regards to the XINDAK fuse: improves the treble, adds definition and detail without adding any sibilance or sharpness; there is no loss in bass depth - which to tell you the truth I was expecting - which remains deep and maybe slightly more articulate. Good for the money certainly.


----------



## BigTony

After a weekly of using my amp, tonight its started crackling in the right channel, and when i turned it off, there was some faint 'pinging' as the valves are cooling down. What is the likely cause?

 When its cool i guess i could remove the valves and reseat them... anything else?

 BT


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a weekly of using my amp, tonight its started crackling in the right channel, and when i turned it off, there was some faint 'pinging' as the valves are cooling down. What is the likely cause?

 When its cool i guess i could remove the valves and reseat them... anything else?

 BT_

 

Peform all the usual diagnostics - swap the tubes back and forth, swap them for other tubes, etc. I suspect you isolate it to the tubes.

 Some tubes will "ting" when you tap the case, or turn an amp on, or off - not a problem, unless you hear noise in your phones, while your playing a source. You can get some tube dampers - they sometimes help, but you may not need them, if you hear nothing while playing your source.


----------



## magnetiq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After a weekly of using my amp, tonight its started crackling in the right channel, and when i turned it off, there was some faint 'pinging' as the valves are cooling down. What is the likely cause?

 When its cool i guess i could remove the valves and reseat them... anything else?

 BT_

 

that is EXACTLY the same as me, the pinging seems to be normal judging everyone's responses. The crackling happened to me too, so I just took the valves out and put them in again making sure they're nice and stable and it's been fine since.


----------



## BigTony

Damm hot tubes! I'm going towait till tomorrow before swapping tubes, its kinda late and i don't want to rush it (or make a pigs ear of it).

 Now i'm back to the DAC headphone out ..... wow, you sure get used to that fantastic sound fast! Now i know exactly how much different the 332 really is.

 Good job i bought a bunch of NOS valves.

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## magnetiq

Would you recommend your dac highly? I'm in need of another one but not too expensive..


----------



## jmht

Yeah, anyone got DAC recommendations for using with the DV332? A large part of my music is digital, and so for the most part, I use my MF xcanv8. 

 However, the stereo-RCA output of the xcanv8 is pass through of the RCA-input, and it just bypasses the DAC completely. So I can't really connect the DV to the MF unit.

 I don't really have a dedicated CD player (using a playstation temporarily lol), so I've been looking for a good DAC unit to use in conjunction with the DV for my sennheiser setup.


----------



## Gradofan2

Here's some DAC's that get good reviews... I don't know which ones have a USB connection - but maybe you can work around that.

Mhdt Laboratory Paradisea and Constantine DACs Review By Joe Audiophile (Scott Faller)

Pacific Valve & Electric Company - DAC

 Just click on the buttons to review.

 I'd be tempted to try the Paradisea DACs...

 Of course... I'm assuming you're looking for a relatively inexpensive DAC / CDP - if not... see my signature below for some of the best available at any price - though they're all relatively inexpensive.


----------



## Godkin

I'd like to try the XINDAK DAC-5.


----------



## BigTony

In the cold light of lunchtime I poped off the valve covers and removed/replaced all the valves. Nasty noise has gone, and so has the 'pinging' sounds, so all well and good. After an hour of being left on the noise was back. Going to swap the valves about now. Can I assume that the right hand vaves on the amp correspond to the right hand sound channel?

 I put the valve covers back on, they weren't a tight fit. In fact, some of the valves seems quite a lose fit in the sockets. Still everything seems to be ok, going to have a listen later on. Guess the first time you heard strange noises you are hypersensitive!

 As for DAC's - well I've been very happy with the Beresford Mk6/3 from HomeHiFi.co.uk, its a good price and Stanley will provide a money back offer, so if you don't get on with it, you'll be out of pocket to the tune of p&p (if your in the UK then its a no-brainer).

 I found that it really opened up the sound, provided lots of hidden detail etc, really did a good job, especially at the price. And I'm finding it a great companion to the 332.

 BT


----------



## BigTony

oki, I've swithced all the valves around, and there is no difference.
 I've replaced the power lead, changed the input source, all to no avail. The noise is only in a single chanel (right side).

 The sound is like the noise you get if you are changing volume on a cheap pot, and distant crackling, its sparodic, hear it for a few seconds, then nothing, then back again.
 I can hear the sound with no volume on the amp, and with no input to the amp (so its not the source).
 Any clues as to what to do next?

 I realised I had bought a replacement set of valves, got them before the I got the amp, so I just replaced all the stock valves with 2x M8100 (Mullard) and 2x6C19 (Svetlana) . These are now running in, and no sign of any noise, but I'm all nervous now, guess I'll calm down when I get a few hours of music without any spurious noises.

 I guess there is no point trying to figure out which of the stock tubes is at fault and just buy up a new full set from ebay. Should I stick with Mullard and Svetlana, or try out some other flavours?

 BT


----------



## Godkin

Three words when owning a tube amp are, experiment, experiment, experiment. Absolutely, try as many tubes as possible. The M8100s and Svetlana will give you a very tubey sound: euphonic, rich, on the warmer side of neutral, nicely detailed with deep bass. More neutral sounding tubes are the RCA 6AK5W, 403A/403B, or even the 6J1P-EV. At the moment I'm running a pair of AEG/Telefunken 6AK5Ws, and they too are very neutral sounding tubes: but they're also very balanced, nothing too accentuated or recessed - perfect in other words. The Ulyanovsk made version of the 6S19P is also leaner in character, and partners the M8100 very well.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_oki, I've swithced all the valves around, and there is no difference.
 I've replaced the power lead, changed the input source, all to no avail. The noise is only in a single chanel (right side).

 The sound is like the noise you get if you are changing volume on a cheap pot, and distant crackling, its sparodic, hear it for a few seconds, then nothing, then back again.
 I can hear the sound with no volume on the amp, and with no input to the amp (so its not the source).
 Any clues as to what to do next?

 I realised I had bought a replacement set of valves, got them before the I got the amp, so I just replaced all the stock valves with 2x M8100 (Mullard) and 2x6C19 (Svetlana) . These are now running in, and no sign of any noise, but I'm all nervous now, guess I'll calm down when I get a few hours of music without any spurious noises.

 I guess there is no point trying to figure out which of the stock tubes is at fault and just buy up a new full set from ebay. Should I stick with Mullard and Svetlana, or try out some other flavours?

 BT_

 

No need to buy more of the stock tubes. If you're sure they were the problem, just email the vendor and have them send you some replacements - if its new and under warranty. Though... I don't know why you'd want the stock tubes - they're OK, but all the others we've discussed are better.

 Also... I don't know that I'd run my amp with the tube covers on. I think those are there primarily to protect the tubes, during shipment. I'm not sure they function well as "heat sinks" to cool the tubes - see discussion of tube covers on Herbies Audio web site. So... I just removed them, and use Herbies Tube Dampers. I also use a small portable fan from WalMart to cool the amp / tubes. I don't know whether the tube covers might have contributed to your issues, or not... but... I'd probably just eliminate them.

 And... sometimes a POT can cause the symptoms you describe. I found that rotating the POT back and forth a lot, can "clean" off any corrosion and quiet them down. I've also sprayed on corrosion cleaner before to help clean them.


----------



## BigTony

I just wanted to have a back-up set of tubes, just in case, but your right, there are better out there.
 I will run now without those covers on, I thought I'd read that they were there to reduce interference, but I've read so much over the last few weeks about valves and amps that it might have been just a dream!
 I'll track down some valve dampers, hopefully find a seller in the UK.

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to have a back-up set of tubes, just in case, but your right, there are better out there.
 I will run now without those covers on, I thought I'd read that they were there to reduce interference, but I've read so much over the last few weeks about valves and amps that it might have been just a dream!
 I'll track down some valve dampers, hopefully find a seller in the UK.

 Cheers

 BT_

 

Some do report tube covers are used to reduce interference - you'll see that on the Herbies Audio site. But... if you don't have much of an issue with interference... you shouldn't need them.

 They can also help maintain a tight fit of the tubes in their sockets. But I usually spread the pins to improve fit - carefully and gently.

 Though... if you use a small fan to cool your amp - the covers may be beneficial overall. I just worried that they might actualy hold more heat in the tubes, than they drew off.


----------



## Godkin

Big Tony, get in touch with Herbie at his online store. He's a great guy to deal with, and will give you any help you need. I live in the UK, and not only was shipping really cheap but really quick as well.

 The pots in the 332 are pretty cheap carbon types. I haven't seen the one in the 332 but in the Figaro it's made by a Tawainese company called MK. I think I'll have to replace the pot in the Figaro; distorts when it is turned up.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Just more reason to tube roll, that's all.


----------



## PrTv

Hey guys, when you turn off your amp, do you hear "pop" sound from your headphones?

 I can hear that with my unit, though the volume is set to zero. I understand that this is normal and won't hurt the headphones, but I'd rather prefer silence. To prevent that "pop" sound to happen, I have to switch off the power switch on the power distributor first; then turn off the amp's power switch. This is very inconvenient as I now use power conditioner like this, and turning it off means everything connected is also off.

 Does your unit pop? If so, do you think it’s serious?


----------



## Zodduska

I'm pretty sure mine does it too PrTv, it also makes a noise when I throw the switch to turn it on. I have no idea if its anything to worry about but it doesnt really seem loud enough to damage the phones. 

 edit: just tested it. What I hear mostly is the microphonic ping from the shock to the tubes when flipping the heavy switch, same noise I get when plugging my phones in or tapping the amp.. not much pop sound at all


----------



## Zodduska

from another thread:  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nikongod* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This applies to almost all headphone amps:
 When turning on or off, DO NOT have the headphones plugged in. dont even think about risking this one unless your amp REQUIRES a load, which it probably dosnt. 
 When plugging headphones in/out turn volume to minimum, or mute your source._

 

So it might be a good idea to unplug the phones before turning off the 332 if you are getting popping sounds or just as a general precaution


----------



## PrTv

Thanks for the info.

 I found this in Woo Audio manual (for WA-5).

  Quote:


 *DO *unplug the standard headphone before switching off the amp. You do not have to do this or you will hear a small pop sound in the headphone (the pop will not damage the headphones anyway). 
 

This seems to be normal, but I don't know if it's a good idea to unplug the phones everytime I turn off the amp cause doing so can wear out the headphone plug and socket.


----------



## silverrain

Just turn the volume all the way down before turning it off, if you want to leave the cans plugged-in.


----------



## squall343

i plug in my headphone all the time including switching on and off the amp...
 I change the headphone while the amp is still on (Just the volume is turn down)

 Nothing happen to my headphone and amp..Still running strong..after almost a year


----------



## BigTony

If I use the 'output' on the back of the 332, I assume its in 'pre-amp' mode, and as such I don't need headphones plugged in?

 I have also read that the HD650 are a great match for this amp, how much sound do they 'leak' out, as that might be a factor to them being on my wish list.

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I use the 'output' on the back of the 332, I assume its in 'pre-amp' mode, and as such I don't need headphones plugged in?_

 

I'm not really sure about this part maybe somebody else can answer.

  Quote:


 I have also read that the HD650 are a great match for this amp, how much sound do they 'leak' out, as that might be a factor to them being on my wish list.

 Cheers

 BT 
 

HD650 are completely open, if you listen relatively quietly it probably wont bother other people in the same room but at a more medium volume people within a few feet to your sides will be able to hear it pretty clearly, at higher volumes anyone in the room will be able to hear it very clearly and will be shocked trying to imagine how loud it is to you based on their experience overhearing people blasting closed headphones.

 FWIW I enjoyed them quite a bit in an open office environment with other people around at medium volume, the nearest person being about 10' away but nobody directly to my sides.. nobody ever complained except for a friend joking once when he could hear a particularly shrieking guitar solo.


----------



## mybeat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I use the 'output' on the back of the 332, I assume its in 'pre-amp' mode, and as such I don't need headphones plugged in?_

 

Correct.
 When I used it as a preamp for my noname cheap sub + speakers without headphones, i've notices more clearer sound and a little bit louder.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mybeat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Correct.
 When I used it as a preamp for my noname cheap sub + speakers without headphones, i've notices more clearer sound and a little bit louder._

 

I have yet to try this, but if the amp acts like a "pre amp", IMO, it should be OK taking the phones out, but if that output socket is only a pass-through circuit, I think you can still damage the tubes by operating the amp without load. 

 If volume adjustment affects output level, it's a pre amp, otherwise, that socket is just a pass-through.


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have yet to try this, but if the amp acts like a "pre amp", IMO, it should be OK taking the phones out, but if that output socket is only a pass-through circuit, I think you can still damage the tubes by operating the amp without load. 

 If volume adjustment affects output level, it's a pre amp, otherwise, that socket is just a pass-through._

 

The volume pot does effect the output volume, so I guess that its a pre-amp, the user manual with the amp 'needs some work!'
 I could also do with a better powercable, the one I had knocking about in a cupboard isn't a tight fit,and when I move the amp it fell out!

 BT


----------



## silverrain

Yup -- you definitely need a new powercord.


----------



## OmoNemo

I'm changing my IEC to Furutech instead of the stock one and using Kimber PK10 as my power cord, the sound is getting better, bass getting tighter and the dynamic is more slamming, timbre and the high freq getting silkier , IMO they are working well together and bring my 332 back to life as it should be.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The volume pot does effect the output volume, so I guess that its a pre-amp, the user manual with the amp 'needs some work!'
 I could also do with a better powercable, the one I had knocking about in a cupboard isn't a tight fit,and when I move the amp it fell out!

 BT_

 

So I think it should be OK for the tubes as long as load is present. 

 About your power cord, I agree with others that you definitely need a new cord NOW! You know, unstable power cord can harm your amp and tubes due to unstable power; not to mention heat generated in your IEC socket due to loose contact.

 You however need not to buy an expensive cable if you don’t want to spend too much money on the cable. I think those JellyFish or Absolute Cord are interesting choices. You can as well refer to this thread to get some ideas.

 If you don’t mind assembling the cable yourself, I suggest buying 1.5-2M of Supra Lorad or In-Akustik cable and Wattgate 320i and 5266i all these costs you around 70-85$ (or a bit more if you choose In-Akustik cable), but you’ll get a very good cable to use with the amp. You know, headphone amp does not need a 300$ ac cable to sound its best and the difference between 85$ and 300$ cable is very subtle (with this particular amp, of course).

 --------------
 Hey, OmoNemo you also use this name on TAF, right?.

 Welcome to Head-Fi and, though you've spent a lot on your rig already, sorry about your wallet.


----------



## BigTony

Guess i'll soure the components and wire one up myself, only way to get a uk plug in place.

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## BigTony

One 'last' question (yeah I'm sure!) about the HD650's. Are they 'sibilant' cans? I'm one of those poor souls that is a tad sensitive to sibilance (especiallly in summer - thank you sinuses), so I don't want to make things worse.
 Cheers

 BT


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One 'last' question (yeah I'm sure!) about the HD650's. Are they 'sibilant' cans? I'm one of those poor souls that is a tad sensitive to sibilance (especiallly in summer - thank you sinuses), so I don't want to make things worse.
 Cheers

 BT_

 

They don't seem sibilant to me - but, I suppose to some persons, with some pieces they might be. They have a bit of an upper mid, lower treble peak now and then - a bit like my AD2000s. Though, I would think it would be rare.


----------



## PrTv

I'm too really sensitive to those ear-piercing sounds, and I'll echo what Gradofan2 said that HD650 is not that kind of cans. I'm listening to many female vocal records, mostly audiophile, and I find very, very few of them sound too harsh to my ears.

 If you've ever listened to Yuin PK2, I'm a kind of man who can't stand PK2's sibilant sound (FYI, the problem can be remedied by using RadioShack foam).

 With its dark sound signature, HD650 can hardly hurt your ears, I assure.


----------



## evanft

Alright, so I've got a Darkvoice 336i w/upgraded tubes (can't recal exactly, I think they're RCA JAN NOS, the ones typically recommended by Skylab if you're not looking to spend a lot of money). I could probably sell it and make around $200 or so after shipping and Paypal fees (I even have the box I received the unit in). I plan on upgrading my Grado SR80s to HD-650s and my Oppo 980 to a Marantz DV-7001, budget permitting, within the next year or so. Would it be worth it for me to upgrade to a 332 as well? It would probably only cost me about $150 or so out of pocket before any tube upgrades.


----------



## BigTony

Did anyone see where my wallet ran and hid!

 BT


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evanft* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright, so I've got a Darkvoice 336i w/upgraded tubes (can't recal exactly, I think they're RCA JAN NOS, the ones typically recommended by Skylab if you're not looking to spend a lot of money). I could probably sell it and make around $200 or so after shipping and Paypal fees (I even have the box I received the unit in). I plan on upgrading my Grado SR80s to HD-650s and my Oppo 980 to a Marantz DV-7001, budget permitting, within the next year or so. Would it be worth it for me to upgrade to a 332 as well? It would probably only cost me about $150 or so out of pocket before any tube upgrades._

 

From my research of the DV336i - I would suggest you get the DV332 - I think you'll like it a lot with the Senns.

 There have been a few members that have had both, and preferred the DV332... and I believe Skylab has had both the DV336i and the DV337 (which sounds similar to the DV332), and he prefers the sound of the DV337 - you might check with him.


----------



## BigTony

Bah,

 My 332 has started to get crackly/rustly in the right hand channel, again. The amp isn't yet 3 weeks old! First time this problem appeared i switched all the tubes to some NOS tubes i'd bought in. This all went fine till last night, where once again that same noise appeared. Tonight i've confirmed it, even with a new power cable. Whats next on the list of things to try? Can i just be unlucky with tubes, or is there an amp fault? I don't have anymore tubes to throw at it either.

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah,

 My 332 has started to get crackly/rustly in the right hand channel, again. The amp isn't yet 3 weeks old! First time this problem appeared i switched all the tubes to some NOS tubes i'd bought in. This all went fine till last night, where once again that same noise appeared. Tonight i've confirmed it, even with a new power cable. Whats next on the list of things to try? Can i just be unlucky with tubes, or is there an amp fault? I don't have anymore tubes to throw at it either.

 Cheers

 BT_

 

Did you rotate the tubes from right to left channel to see if the sound followed one tube? 

 It sounds like a tube, but it should move with the tube if it is.

 I had that problem with another amp and I found, that it went away if I spread the pins a bit to create a tighter fit in the socket (better contact). But... you have to be very careful in doing this to avoid breaking the seal around each pin, or breaking the glass. I've used needle nose pliars to take the pressure off the pin - just bending the tip slightly.

 I'm surprised it recurred. 

 If it follows the tube, then you might leave it for a while and see if the problem recurs in the right channel again - if so, perhaps something is fouling the tubes in the right channel. 

 If you find out its not the tubes, or that something is fouling the tubes, then you may want to return it for exchange. Of course, if may cost less to just take it to a good local electronics shop and have them take a look at it. They should be able to replace the offending part for a nominal charge - likely less than sending it back. Of course, once you find out what part is causing the problem, you should contact the vendor to have them send you the replacement part, under the warranty - so the only cost you should have would be the labor to diagnose the problem and to replace the part.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah,

 My 332 has started to get crackly/rustly in the right hand channel, again. The amp isn't yet 3 weeks old! First time this problem appeared i switched all the tubes to some NOS tubes i'd bought in. This all went fine till last night, where once again that same noise appeared. Tonight i've confirmed it, even with a new power cable. Whats next on the list of things to try? Can i just be unlucky with tubes, or is there an amp fault? I don't have anymore tubes to throw at it either.

 Cheers

 BT_

 

That sucks, sorry to hear. One thing to try would be to swap the left and right tubes, if you only do it one at a time you can isolate the bad tube (if it is a bad tube). If the noise is still in the right channel after you swap the tubes around that would eliminate the tubes as the problem and only leave the amp/cables/cans/rfi as the source of your problem.

 edit: Gradofan beat me to it


----------



## windrider

Im getting the same problem and its driving me crazy.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah,

 My 332 has started to get crackly/rustly in the right hand channel, again. The amp isn't yet 3 weeks old! First time this problem appeared i switched all the tubes to some NOS tubes i'd bought in. This all went fine till last night, where once again that same noise appeared. Tonight i've confirmed it, even with a new power cable. Whats next on the list of things to try? Can i just be unlucky with tubes, or is there an amp fault? I don't have anymore tubes to throw at it either.

 Cheers

 BT_


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bah,

 My 332 has started to get crackly/rustly in the right hand channel, again. The amp isn't yet 3 weeks old! First time this problem appeared i switched all the tubes to some NOS tubes i'd bought in. This all went fine till last night, where once again that same noise appeared. Tonight i've confirmed it, even with a new power cable. Whats next on the list of things to try? Can i just be unlucky with tubes, or is there an amp fault? I don't have anymore tubes to throw at it either.

 Cheers

 BT_

 

Mine is like that too, but left channel. But I found that the left tube has some "sweet spots" in the tube socket where it want to be. If not, I get the hizz. So, after I change tubes, if I get hizz, I need to unplug the cans (you do not want to rug tubes while wearing cans, trust me, I have tried), and rug the tube to another position in the somewhat loose socket. Usually takes only one try, and when left in the "good" position the hizz is gone until next time I change tubes.


----------



## windrider

i bent the tips of my tubes a little and the problem seems to be gone.


----------



## BigTony

I rotated the tubes, but the sounds is still in the right hand channel. 

 I'll try bending the tips of the tubes, guess it might be a socket fit problem.
 Knowing my luck I'll have a neat pile of broken tubes by the afternoon .
 Maybe I'll try with the stock tubes first!

 Am I right in assuming that the tubes are handed, i.e. tubes on the right hand side of the amp are those for the right hand channel?

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I rotated the tubes, but the sounds is still in the right hand channel. 

 I'll try bending the tips of the tubes, guess it might be a socket fit problem.
 Knowing my luck I'll have a neat pile of broken tubes by the afternoon .
 Maybe I'll try with the stock tubes first!

 Am I right in assuming that the tubes are handed, i.e. tubes on the right hand side of the amp are those for the right hand channel?

 Cheers

 BT_

 

If you rotate the tubes and the problem still exists, I think the tubes have nothing to do with this problem.

 In this case, I think you should look into the amp itself. IMO, loose socket can also cause this problem, so spreading the pins is also a good idea. However, if that doesn't help, you should have someone check your amp, but in any case, I don't think sending it back to China is a good idea as the circuit is simple and someone with decent knowledge can check/fix this problem for you.

  Quote:


 Am I right in assuming that the tubes are handed, i.e. tubes on the right hand side of the amp are those for the right hand channel? 
 

Yes, that's correct.


----------



## Skylab

I occasionally get this problem in the right channel of my DV337 when I tuberoll - the tube socket does seem to be a little fussy about how the tube is placed. Once it's placed and I rock it a little, it gets totally quiet though and will stay that way until I tuberoll again.

 The DV amps, as good as they are, don't use the world's nicest tube sockets...


----------



## BigTony

I got my gf to bend the pins out a little, made a better fit, but the problem remains, which is a real downer. Guess i'll have to see if i can find anyone that'll can look at it in sunny yorkshire, or else its the long trip back to China. When it was on song it was wonderful, just bad luck i guess. Back to hiss while i get it fixed.

 BT


----------



## Gradofan2

Yeah... I hadn't thought it may be the socket itself... but... likely is... as these guys suggest.

 If you have to replace the socket... I'd just order two from a good electronics supplier (e.g. Partsconnexion, etc.), and take it to your local electronics repair shop and replace both... unless you're a DIYer, or can do it yourself.


----------



## evanft

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From my research of the DV336i - I would suggest you get the DV332 - I think you'll like it a lot with the Senns.

 There have been a few members that have had both, and preferred the DV332... and I believe Skylab has had both the DV336i and the DV337 (which sounds similar to the DV332), and he prefers the sound of the DV337 - you might check with him._

 

Yeah, it is better from what I can gather. But the 336i is capable of making the 650s sound good, right? Just not at the level of the 332 and 337.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evanft* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, it is better from what I can gather. But the 336i is capable of making the 650s sound good, right? Just not at the level of the 332 and 337._

 

Well... yes... as you can see from your research on these forums - the DV336i sounds great with Senns also. 

 I think its likely better than anything else in its price range, by far. 

 But... when you can get the DV332 for very little more - why not?


----------



## evanft

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well... yes... as you can see from your research on these forums - the DV336i sounds great with Senns also. 

 I think its likely better than anything else in its price range, by far. 

 But... when you can get the DV332 for very little more - why not?_

 

Of course, but my budget a year ago had an absolute max of $250, which put the 332 out of my range.


----------



## Callous

Excellent... About to purchase my 332, and Jasmine no longer has any 110v versions in stock, and Casque just took the "Make an offer" option off on its 332.


----------



## Gradofan2

Wow... 

 Looks like the DV332 is becoming too popular.

 But... I guess I'd:

 1. Ask Jasmine how soon the amp will be available - and possibly wait until then.

 2. Email Casque to make an offer at around $420 shipped and see if they accept it.

 3. Email AudiophileChina.com to find out if they have the 110-120 volt version (I think its 120). They're price is $410 shipped, I think - email them to confirm. I don't know anything about them, so you want to take appropriate precautions (e.g. pay via a good credit card that will protect you and refund your money if you have any problems).

 4. You can always buy the 240 volt EU version and use a voltage transformer/converter to run it. That's what I do and it works fine. Here's a good one - the one I use is the VC-100W for $14.

Voltage Converters - Voltage Transformers and Converter


----------



## evanft

In the title of Jasmine's auction, it says "2007new version". Are there multiple versions of the 332?


----------



## argentum

I wonder when will be 3322 for sale . Darkvoice mentioned in one of his posts that they are stopping production of 332 for a while. Is it temporary or is it because 3322 will replace it ?


----------



## Godkin

The 3322 is for sale, but not in the usual outlets - Jasmine, Hifi Casque, etc. It retails at around £250 (about $500). I'm very interested in this amp also. Over at the Rock Grotto, Darkvoice is trying to stir up interest in the UK and US for representatives to distribute their gear for them. But I wonder would the prices go up accordingly?


----------



## Callous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow... 

 Looks like the DV332 is becoming too popular.

 But... I guess I'd:

 1. Ask Jasmine how soon the amp will be available - and possibly wait until then.

 2. Email Casque to make an offer at around $420 shipped and see if they accept it.

 3. Email AudiophileChina.com to find out if they have the 110-120 volt version (I think its 120). They're price is $410 shipped, I think - email them to confirm. I don't know anything about them, so you want to take appropriate precautions (e.g. pay via a good credit card that will protect you and refund your money if you have any problems).

 4. You can always buy the 240 volt EU version and use a voltage transformer/converter to run it. That's what I do and it works fine. Here's a good one - the one I use is the VC-100W for $14.

Voltage Converters - Voltage Transformers and Converter_

 

Thanks alot, I just emailed Casque asking if they will take $430 shipped. In an email from Jasmine a couple of weeks ago, I was checking on the availablity of the 110v version, and he told me there was only one more left, "never again to be produced in the future." Sigh... why didn't I buy back then? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, has anyone here ever bought from Audiophilechina? Their prices are lower than I've seen in most places, but there's no information on them at all... No reviews, no consumer reports.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, has anyone here ever bought from Audiophilechina? Their prices are lower than I've seen in most places, but there's no information on them at all... No reviews, no consumer reports._

 

Actually, according to their website Audiophilechina is the website of ebay's Casque hi-fi

 News item: "--2008/01/18: Our registered eBay member name is "casque_hifi", with 100% positive feedbacks. We are a Chinese branch, our head office being in France. Our role in the hifi industry is quite special as we are the link between the manufactures, mostly unknown to the European market, and the clients."


----------



## G-E

Quote:


 Also, has anyone here ever bought from Audiophilechina? Their prices are lower than I've seen in most places, but there's no information on them at all... No reviews, no consumer reports. 
 

I got my 332 from audiophilechina. Received the amp within a week after i made the payement. There was a threat a couple weeks back about audiophilechina buyers experiences, not sure in what forum part tho.


----------



## sillysally

I need to confirm a few things.
 1. I live in the USA so i would need the 120v not the 220/110v model of the DV322 is this correct?
 2. I would use the DV 322 for my HD-650s. My source for the HD-650 and the DV332 will be my Onkyo TX-SR705A/V. All HD/BD player will pass to my Onkyo via HDMI 1.3. And then i would plug in the DV322 to my Onkyo. Is this the right way to do this?
 3. Would you say i will get a benefit by having my HD-650 plunged into the DV-322 over plugging my HD-650s into my Onkyo? 

 Thanks for your help.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I need to confirm a few things.
 1. I live in the USA so i would need the 120v not the 220/110v model of the DV322 is this correct?
 2. I would use the DV 322 for my HD-650s. My source for the HD-650 and the DV332 will be my Onkyo TX-SR705A/V. All HD/BD player will pass to my Onkyo via HDMI 1.3. And then i would plug in the DV322 to my Onkyo. Is this the right way to do this?
 3. Would you say i will get a benefit by having my HD-650 plunged into the DV-322 over plugging my HD-650s into my Onkyo? 

 Thanks for your help._

 

1. Yes... but... you can also get the 240v model and a 100W voltage transformer/coverter to convert 110-120v mains voltage to 240v voltage for the DV332. You might do the conversion... if... you can't get the standard US 110-120v model. It works fine - I do it with my 240v version in the US.

 2. I don't know... but... that sounds right - someone else will have to help you with this question.

 3. You'll get much better sound from your HD650s to drive it directly with your DV332 - no comparison.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1. Yes... but... you can also get the 240v model and a 100W voltage transformer/coverter to convert 110-120v mains voltage to 240v voltage for the DV332. You might do the conversion... if... you can't get the standard US 110-120v model. It works fine - I do it with my 240v version in the US.

 2. I don't know... but... that sounds right - someone else will have to help you with this question.

 3. You'll get much better sound from your HD650s to drive it directly with your DV332 - no comparison._

 

Thanks for your reply this is what I need to know now. Here is a description of the DV332. AC Power:220V/50Hz or 110V/50Hz, is this for us that live in the USA or would I need a converter? 
 Thank You.


----------



## futuro107

I recently bought one Tianyun ZERO DAC from AudiophileChina.com, very fast shipping and good customer service! I will order one 3322 in future!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for your reply this is what I need to know now. Here is a description of the DV332. AC Power:220V/50Hz or 110V/50Hz, is this for us that live in the USA or would I need a converter? 
 Thank You._

 

Check with the vendor to obtain clarification.

 The wording implies that both the EU and US versions are available, or that the amp can be switched to match either type of mains power. I've never seen a DV332 that could be switched to match the mains power - so I don't think that's what it means.

 You would need the 110v/50Hz version for US - if its available.

 Or... you would need the 220v/50Hz version with a 100 watt or 200 watt voltage transformer/converter (VC-100W or VC-200W) from:

Voltage Converters - Voltage Transformers and Converter


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *futuro107* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently bought one Tianyun ZERO DAC from AudiophileChina.com, very fast shipping and good customer service! I will order one 3322 in future!_

 

Just be aware... the DV3322 costs a lot more than the bargain-priced DV332... and... the SQ is unlikely to be that much better. 

 But... its your money. 

 Moreover... if everyone resists buying the upgraded units... the price is likely to be reduced.


----------



## argentum

3322 will be available in September - at least AudiophileChina.com says so. Price is 439 + 95 for shipping, which is a little bit over 100 bucks more than for 332. I wouldn't call this exactly very steep price difference and since it is just (or soon to be ) released I wouldn't count for immediate price reduction . 337 is priced 569 $ and 337SE 899 $ . Shipping is for both around 150 $ . I wonder what have they changed so much to cause such price difference ?


----------



## windrider

Just have a quick question: Anyone of you using 332 with a hd600 or hd650? Mind sharing what position your volume knob is at most of the time?


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just have a quick question: Anyone of you using 332 with a hd600 or hd650? Mind sharing what position your volume knob is at most of the time?_

 

Mine is at about 8-10 o'clock, 8 being pretty low volume and 10 is about as loud as I can stand for any extended amount of time.. The 332 pot is not really very good IMHO, I also get channel imbalance at volumes lower than 8, I would like to upgrade it but I'm not sure if my DIY skills are up to the challenge yet.


----------



## Gradofan2

It depends on your source voltage, and the mix of the media... but... in general between 10 O'clock and 12 O'clock is usually so loud you can't really tolerate higher settings - 10-11 O'clock is likely the practical max with most sources and recordings - with Senns. And low impedance phones (e.g. Denons) are about the same - maybe 1 hr greater.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check with the vendor to obtain clarification.

 The wording implies that both the EU and US versions are available, or that the amp can be switched to match either type of mains power. I've never seen a DV332 that could be switched to match the mains power - so I don't think that's what it means.

 You would need the 110v/50Hz version for US - if its available.

 Or... you would need the 220v/50Hz version with a 100 watt or 200 watt voltage transformer/converter (VC-100W or VC-200W) from:

Voltage Converters - Voltage Transformers and Converter_

 

*************************************************

 fyi this info about the Voltage came off of "Jasmine" E-Bay site for the DV332.
 I bid on this item but in added terms I made it clear that I only wanted it if it was for use and met the standards for the USA. He shows he has 9 in stock.


----------



## Callous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*************************************************

 fyi this info about the Voltage came off of "Jasmine" E-Bay site for the DV332.
 I bid on this item but in added terms I made it clear that I only wanted it if it was for use and met the standards for the USA. He shows he has 9 in stock.



_

 

Did you email him before you bought the item?

 This is the response I recieved from Jasmine three weeks ago when I asked him if there were any 110v amps in stock, and if they included a power cord.

  Code:


```
[left]of course,i have a lot of 110 volt power cords.it is easy to satsify you.thanks for your trust.there is only one 110v 332 amp in my stock. never will be produced again in the future. best regards sincerely jasmine[/left]
```

A week later, I emailed him once more, and that last 110v amp was gone.


----------



## PrTv

Instead of waiting hopelessly, you could also get the 220 version together with a decent 220>110 converter.

 However, if you're a believer, like me, who believes in purity of AC current fed to the system, I strongly discourage you from using that converter method as from my experience, unless you use an expensive converter, the process also generates some kind of noise which can deteriorate sound quality. In this case, you may really need to wait for the 110 version.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of waiting hopelessly, you could also get the 220 version together with a decent 220>110 converter.

 However, if you're a believer, like me, who believes in purity of AC current fed to the system, I strongly discourage you from using that converter method as from my experience, unless you use an expensive converter, the process also generates some kind of noise which can deteriorate sound quality. In this case, you may really need to wait for the 110 version._

 

That's certanly not been my experience. I've got the 220v version with a 100 watt voltage transformer/converter - sounds great, with absolutely no noise of any kind! 

 Though... I suppose it could be... if you weren't careful in the selection of a voltage transformer/converter.


----------



## bada bing

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *windrider* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just have a quick question: Anyone of you using 332 with a hd600 or hd650? Mind sharing what position your volume knob is at most of the time?_

 

About 9 o'clock here.
 Volume is somewhat influenced by tubes used, different brands of tubes have slightly different design gains.

 The volume pot on the DV332 is a linear taper, rather than audio taper, which is a major design flub up and makes the volume pot the #1 target for a DIY upgrade IMO .


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bada bing* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About 9 o'clock here.
 Volume is somewhat influenced by tubes used, different brands of tubes have slightly different design gains.

 The volume pot on the DV332 is a linear taper, rather than audio taper, which is a major design flub up and makes the volume pot the #1 target for a DIY upgrade IMO ._

 

Maybe... but...

 ... the stock POT works great - no noise, clear and detailed, easy adjustment, and not too much gain. 

 So... "what's not to like." 

 Unless... you're a DIYer, or "tinkerer."


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you email him before you bought the item?

 This is the response I recieved from Jasmine three weeks ago when I asked him if there were any 110v amps in stock, and if they included a power cord.

  Code:



		Code:
	

[left]of course,i have a lot of 110 volt power cords.it is easy to satsify you.thanks for your trust.there is only one 110v 332 amp in my stock. never will be produced again in the future. best regards sincerely jasmine[/left]


A week later, I emailed him once more, and that last 110v amp was gone._

 

Ya I ended up the same as you with Jasmine. 

 Also I tried AudiophileChina. I received a E-Mail back The next day about 8 PM cdst from them and they said they had one left so I went to there web site same day at about 10:30 PM cdst and placed my order and asked them to verify that they were holding the last DV 332 US version for me and as soon as they E-Mailed me back I would send funds via PayPal . Well guess what they had sold all there DV the next am, however they would have the DV 3322 in September. ugh. I E-Mailed them back and ask them to please check and see if in fact they were holding the DV-332 US version for me. I have not heard back. If they do E-Mail me back and they say yes they are holding the DV 332 for me I will post back about this.


----------



## Callous

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ya I ended up the same as you with Jasmine. 

 Also I tried AudiophileChina. I received a E-Mail back The next day about 8 PM cdst from them and they said they had one left so I went to there web site same day at about 10:30 PM cdst and placed my order and asked them to verify that they were holding the last DV 332 US version for me and as soon as they E-Mailed me back I would send funds via PayPal . Well guess what they had sold all there DV the next am, however they would have the DV 3322 in September. ugh. I E-Mailed them back and ask them to please check and see if in fact they were holding the DV-332 US version for me. I have not heard back. If they do E-Mail me back and they say yes they are holding the DV 332 for me I will post back about this._

 

Sorry to tell you this but I sent payment for a 110v 332 yesterday from Audiophilechina. I was also able to personally talk to Zhou Yu on the phone, as I speak fluent-ish Mandarin. He is due to ship out the amplifier today, I believe.

 If I were you I'd just buy the 220v version from Jasmine with the transformer that Gradofan posted.

 Sorry again,

 Daren


----------



## BigTony

My 332 is now with an engineer trying to fix the 'right hand channel noise' problem. I have asked him to check all the tube sockets, with a view that if he thinks it warrents it (and seeing as he has it open on the bench) to replace all the tube sockets.
 Hopefully I should have it back in a few days, and I'll report back the repair/upgrade!

 Cheers

 BT


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry to tell you this but I sent payment for a 110v 332 yesterday from Audiophilechina. I was also able to personally talk to Zhou Yu on the phone, as I speak fluent-ish Mandarin. He is due to ship out the amplifier today, I believe.

 If I were you I'd just buy the 220v version from Jasmine with the transformer that Gradofan posted.

 Sorry again,

 Daren_

 

No need to be sorry. I am happy for you. I have gone a little route and feel good about all of this. I hope you are happy with your new DV 332 as i think I will be happy with what I did. Best of luck and enjoy your tunes.


----------



## Godkin

Anyone seen this thread? 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tin...mz-2-a-351833/

 A rip off of the 332 or what? Maybe as DV phases out the 332 - the 3322 is realeased in September - they have sold the rights to make it to TINGFENG?


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone seen this thread? 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tin...mz-2-a-351833/

 A rip off of the 332 or what? Maybe as DV phases out the 332 - the 3322 is realeased in September - they have sold the rights to make it to TINGFENG?_

 

Sounds likely. Although I thought the 3322 was just suppose to be a 332 with upgraded parts?


----------



## Godkin

You're right, the 3322 is technically the same amp, but with the upgraded parts. It has, however, two independent volume controls. The external design of the case is also radically different.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You're right, the 3322 is technically the same amp, but with the upgraded parts. It has, however, two independent volume controls. The external design of the case is also radically different._

 

Does it also have a dual power supply, or "pseudo dual power supply" - one for each channel, which each POT controls?


----------



## Gradofan2

Well... I fear I've made a big mistake!

 I've sold my DV332 to upgrade to the DV337, or SP Extreme, or WA6+.

 But... listening to my DV332 with the Ulys and M8100s this weekend, before packing it up... it is hard to believe any of those amps, will sound any better, if as good! The Ulys... by the way... make a good combo with the M8100s - they're brighter, and more detailed than the Svets... and... the Mullards mellow them just a bit and provide rich mids, and solid bass - a bit more resolution - really complements the Senns.

 I think, I just hadn't rolled enough tubes, or allowed it to burn in enough earlier.

 It really does sound incredible out of my HD580/600s or MD5000s driven by my Monarchy M24 - simply incredible in all respects!

 Call it "seller's remorse" if you will - but, I really doubt there are many amps that sound any better. 

 A stupid mistake - hopefully the replacement will sound as good!

 Oh well...


----------



## omegaman

Let us know you're thoughts on the new amp, The 337 should be better, If not you can always buy a 332 again if you are not happy !!!!!!!!


----------



## nor_spoon

Agree Gradofan2, the Uly's and the M8100's are close to perfect match. I settled for them early, and none other combination I have tried have sound as good.


----------



## G-E

Do u guys with the 650 hooked up your 332 use a equalizer? I experimented a bit, and really like the eq in the following picture,







 In many songs vocals are more seperated from the reset of the music using this eq. Also, most electronics had overpowering bass imo without using a eq, and is much better with this eq on


----------



## G-E

Using mullards m8100 and Svets for tubes btw, may just be this combo that is so bass heavy.


----------



## Callous

Hey guys, my 332 was just released from customs in San Francisco yesterday morning. Due to recieve it either today or monday, seeing as I live about twenty minutes from the city!

 Will try to update soon with impressions.


----------



## kevinvisionm

cheer! where did you get it? when did you order it? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, my 332 was just released from customs in San Francisco yesterday morning. Due to recieve it either today or monday, seeing as I live about twenty minutes from the city!

 Will try to update soon with impressions.




_


----------



## Gradofan2

Your gonna love it! 

 You won't believe the sound of your Senns!


----------



## Callous

Just recieved it guys! Bought it from Audiophile china about two weeks ago.

 Okay, so the power cord included was a 250v cord rather than a 110v cord, so am I correct in saying that I should just go buy a 110v cord from Radioshack or something?

 Also, this is really dumb, but the black... protectors (sorry, don't really know what they are, I think they're supposed to prolong the life of the tube?) are not coming off. Theres a 99% chance I am just crazy and don't know how to take them off however... So, help?






 Thanks everyone!

 EDIT: Nevermind about the black caps, got them off. The tubes are a bit crooked though, some of them are angled a tiny bit to the side. Is that normal?


----------



## kevinvisionm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just recieved it guys! Bought it from Audiophile china about two weeks ago.

 Okay, so the power cord included was a 250v cord rather than a 110v cord, so am I correct in saying that I should just go buy a 110v cord from Radioshack or something?

 Also, this is really dumb, but the black... protectors (sorry, don't really know what they are, I think they're supposed to prolong the life of the tube?) are not coming off. Theres a 99% chance I am just crazy and don't know how to take them off however... So, help?






 Thanks everyone!

 EDIT: Nevermind about the black caps, got them off. The tubes are a bit crooked though, some of them are angled a tiny bit to the side. Is that normal?_

 

wow, i thought audiophile china is out of stock for the 332


----------



## Gradofan2

You must press down on them and twist counter-clockwise until the slots/extrusions line up at their base with a nipple and then they lift up and off.

 Check the back of the amp to see if it has a 120 volt label, or 240 volt label.

 If 120 volt then you can buy a power cord at RS, or order an Iron Lung Jellyfish, or whatever for 120 volt power. 

 If you have the 240 volt amp, then you must buy a voltage transfomer converter to operate it. 

 Let me know, if you need the later - I've got a great vendor with good products at good prices.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Callous* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT: Nevermind about the black caps, got them off. The tubes are a bit crooked though, some of them are angled a tiny bit to the side. Is that normal?_

 

That's perfectly normal, since DV amps aren't known for the best quality tube sockets. Just be sure that every tube is secure (pressing them down gently to be sure they're all the way down).

 If you were to upgrade, I think tubes upgrade should be your first priority; then fuse or power cord. I myself noticed greater improvements with this particular amp from fuse upgrade than swapping a power cord.

 You can refer to my and other members' posts in this thread about the correct type of fuses.


----------



## Dept_of_Alchemy

Look into the Mullard M8100 if you're thinking about a tube upgrade.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dept_of_Alchemy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Look into the Mullard M8100 if you're thinking about a tube upgrade._

 

Yes from everything I have read those are very nice tubes. And they came with my USA version MK IV SE. I now have about 70 hours on it now and the sound keeps getting better and better. 

 btw for anybody buying a new tube amp from China make sure that who you are buying the amp from is a authorized dealer. My MK IV SE comes with a 2 year warranty but only if it is bought from a authorized dealer. I got my from David at little tube so in my case np.


----------



## PrTv

Since this is a thread for DV332, I think I will post it here too.

 Anyone who happen to own a "new" version of HD650 + Equinox cable , and the DV332, please tell me what you think about the synergy.

 Referring to this thread, I found that my new version does not go so well with Equinox. With Equinox and DV332 (Svets and LM 403B's) I find that the phones sound too harsh and I can feel that bass is less impact and more muffled compared to my old version.

 And more surprisingly, the phones sounded better when I removed the Equinox and put in a stock cable. With the new version, I clearly prefer that cheapo 12$ cable over a >300$ Equinox. I don't know what is to be blamed, the cable, the phones, the amp, or even myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since many of us here own HD650, I believe someone in this thread would own a new version and the Equinox. Please let me know what you think.


----------



## bOUddha

I have the newer version 650s and the exact same tubage your using, and I found the Equinox opened the whole stage from floor to ceiling and wall to wall. I had been using the Cardas cable I got when I purchased the Senns, having put the OEm cable on my 600s. Technically, I know I can't compare SAA to stock Senn cable, but I know that Equinox ended any further tweaks or tube rolling...


----------



## PrTv

Yeah bOUddha, I too can notice an improvement in soundstage, but I really can't stand those ear-piercing treble (especially sibilance), and the lack of quality bass (not quantity, of course).

 Maybe I need to see if something went wrong in my setup.


----------



## kendal3334

any idea about 332 driving QP450?
 i think tube amps would be fine for this phone, just wanna know if anyone used to try it


----------



## bOUddha

PrTv-

  Quote:


 but I really can't stand those ear-piercing treble (especially sibilance), and the lack of quality bass 
 

Doesn't sound like my rig in the slightest. I don't know that I would even investigate any options to improve what I'm hearing, and my source is mostly a Sony ST-J75 FM tuner (recently refurbed by Terry Dewickt). Mahvelous stuff...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What source are you using? Could there be an impedance mismatch? I have a couple of CD players that sound rough when played through the DV (so I don't).


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bOUddha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PrTv-



 Doesn't sound like my rig in the slightest. I don't know that I would even investigate any options to improve what I'm hearing, and my source is mostly a Sony ST-J75 FM tuner (recently refurbed by Terry Dewickt). Mahvelous stuff...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What source are you using? Could there be an impedance mismatch? I have a couple of CD players that sound rough when played through the DV (so I don't)._

 

My source are Rotel RCD-06 and Arcam DiVA CD73, and sometimes iPod Nano 3G. I don't know if it's the impedance but I don't have this problem at all with my old pair.

 Additionally, yesterday I tried connecting the new phones with my NAD C372 stereo integrated amp, and the problem still persisted, so I highly suspect it's my headphone itself.


----------



## robojack

I just got a Darkvoice 332 amp, which I had taken off of Gradofan's hands, and wow, it's even better than I had imagined. Paired with my Diyeden SVDAC04 DAC and newly arrived HD650's, this is a killer combination.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *robojack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a Darkvoice 332 amp, which I had taken off of Gradofan's hands, and wow, it's even better than I had imagined. Paired with my Diyeden SVDAC04 DAC and newly arrived HD650's, this is a killer combination._

 

Yeah... 

 And... if you're (any member) one of those with a DV332, who thinks you can do much better by upgrading to a more expensive amp... think again, before you sell your DV332! 

 You will not find an amp, that significantly betters it at 3 to 4 times the price - so don't bother trying. 

 You'll only regret you did.

 Also... I should note... even though the tube selection for the DV332 is limited... the tubes that are available for the DV332 produce some of the best sound available from any tubes - so don't be lured into thinking other tubes will sound much better. Somehow the special combination / synergy between the Solen caps, with the tubes it uses, produce an exceptionally good sound quality.

 By the way - *DV made a big mistake by discontinuing this amp* - they should have just upgraded the POT, the tube sockets, the RCA connections, the power supply, and the fuse, and left it in the their product lines. Replacing it with the DV3322 with wholly different components may well be "ruining a good thing" - perhaps they should have "left well enough alone." I doubt very much the DV3322 will sound as good, or better.


----------



## silverrain

Maybe we will get lucky, and the 3322 will actually be just as good or better....
 If so, I'm already thinking about one....


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone seen this thread? 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tin...mz-2-a-351833/

 A rip off of the 332 or what? Maybe as DV phases out the 332 - the 3322 is realeased in September - they have sold the rights to make it to TINGFENG?_

 

AudiophileChina reported to me the TingFeng is not identical in all respects to the DV332, and does not share all its parts. I think I recall it uses different caps, or resistors, or both, as follows:

 Resistors: Dale (not the big military grade units of the DV332, which were proven)
 Caps: Phillips Beyschlag Centralab (not the Solen, which were proven)
 Diodes: Fuji
 POT: ALPS-27 (may be same, might be better - should be Blue Velvet)
 RCAS: CMC816u 
 Tubes: Same
 Case: Appears to be lesser quality paint
 Power: ~1 watt 

 I wouldn't buy one, unless it is identical, or with minor tweaks - you can't be certain it will sound as good, or will be as reliable. 

 Given it's lower price - I doubt it will. 

 If it is the "re-branded" DV332, they should just upgrade the POT, the tube sockets, the RCAs, the fuse, and possibly the resistors... and maintain the same high quality case - and the same, or slightly higher price. The original design and parts selection has a special synergy that is very difficult to improve upon - except through relatively minor tweaks.

 They'd sell a lot of them, if they did. With lesser parts - I doubt they will, no matter what their price.


----------



## omegaman

Gradofan its sounds like you are regretting you sale, You may be happier when your new amps arrive !!!!!!


----------



## BigTony

At the moment i'm regreting my purchase! My 332 developed a fault within a week, i spent 2 weeks fiddling changing valves, bending pins etc, and now its spent 2 weeks with an engineer who's still trying to find out the cause of the annoying sound.

 Just my luck to get a dud.

 BT


----------



## omegaman

Hope you get it sorted Tony, That was one of my concerns when I bought the amp, China is a long way to send it back !!! but touch wood I've been problem free.


----------



## nor_spoon

Just to add, I also had some hum in my 332, and found out that the reason was it sitting too close to other electrical components, which seemed to interfere with it. You might want to try to move it around and see if that helps.


----------



## BigTony

The amp is with the engineers, and they confirm the problem. Solving it seems to be another matter!

 BT


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The amp is with the engineers, and they confirm the problem. Solving it seems to be another matter!

 BT_

 

Did they know what cause this problem?
 Dead capacitors, grounding or something?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan its sounds like you are regretting you sale, You may be happier when your new amps arrive !!!!!!_

 

Yes... I do regret selling it - it's a great amp...especially at its price. It compares quite favorably to the SP Extreme. And... like the Woo Audio amps - its "jewel-like" in its construction.

 I'd buy a DV3322, but I'm skeptical that it can sound as good - too many changes in the components. The DV332 is proven - it has a certain synergy between its components, which produces a lot of clean power (current and voltage) to drive most phones well, at almost uniform POT settings of 10-11 O'clock - with little variance. And the tubes it uses are also great - not too many to choose from - but, you don't need any more - they're great.

 As far as hum in the DV332 - the only hum I ever encountered was a ground loop - which I quickly eliminated by using 3-2 prong cheater plugs on my CDP, or DV332, or both. That eliminates any hum from that source.


----------



## DaMnEd

To those still wanting one DV 332, heres an opportunity:

  Quote:


 Darkvoice will produce more 50 pcs DV 332 for AudiophileChina.They will be available soon. 
 

http://www.audiophilechina.com/cp-sh..._id2=2&s_id=25


----------



## omegaman

There you go Gradofan a chance to buy one back !!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## robojack

I do get some ground loop hum with the DV332, but it's barely noticeable with the volume pot at 10-11 o'clock, and disappears when I'm actually playing music. If I turn it up to 1-2 o'clock position, then the ground hum really becomes apparent (but I'd be going deaf shortly if I had my HD650's playing at that volume level anyway).

 As for getting rid of the ground hum, it's not as easy or affordable here in Canada, with cheater plugs being illegal and unobtainable. Ground loop isolators are pretty expensive, as are plugs that filter out ground noise. I suppose I could always just manually break off the ground plug with pliers, but I fear what would happen if I did that.


----------



## omegaman

As an electrician I would never recomend cheater plugs or disconnecting the earth cable. The earth is there for your saety. 9 times out of 10 the hum is from a nearby piece of equipment. I used to have trouble from a dimmer switch until I sorted it out.


----------



## dhammavijaya

We have to face it. Many report hum with this amp. I think a solution may be to fit attenuation before the output to phones. I expect this may be simple for an expert.


----------



## nor_spoon

No hum whatsoever here, if the one tube, which could cause some hum, sits correctly. The sockets are a bit loose on this amp.


----------



## Zodduska

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As an electrician I would never recomend cheater plugs or disconnecting the earth cable. The earth is there for your saety. 9 times out of 10 the hum is from a nearby piece of equipment. I used to have trouble from a dimmer switch until I sorted it out._

 

I'm a bit weary of using cheaters myself and thankfully after a little fussing with the configuration of gear sharing the same powerstrips I don't have any ground loop issues.

 One point that I've seen brought up before about using cheaters and several pieces of audio gear together is that it's ok as long as one of the components is grounded, since they are linked together with grounded interconnects thus the ungrounded are in a sense "grounded" through the single grounded component. Seems to make a little sense to me. 

 As an electrician, can you offer any insight on this?


----------



## Callous

So I've been trying to take out this stock 6J1 tube for like half an hour now, and for the life of me, the tube will not come out. Rolled the other 6J1 tube out in a few minutes, but this one just will. not. come. out. Any suggestions?


----------



## Gradofan2

You might try some WD40. Just insert the little red tube in the spray nozel and direct it down to each pin and tap it lightly. It would likely lubricate the pins enough to ease the tube free. 

 Or... a silicon spray lubricant would be good also.

 I'd avoid overspray on the socket nuts - the lubricant could eventually lead the nuts to loosen on their mounting bolts, allowing the sockets to loosen a bit.


----------



## Callous

Thanks alot!

 For now, I've decided to put the stock tubes back in... but am having a bit of trouble with that as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 How much force are you supposed to put on the tube to make it securly stay in the socket? I push the tube firmly in to the socket, and still, a small tug up will cause the tube to become detached. If I push the tube harder in, I'm afraid it will break.


----------



## Gradofan2

As long as they're touching metal socket contacts securely - they should be OK. 

 Also... you can "gently, carefully" bend the tube pins to fit better in the sockets. You can tell if they're out of alignment by looking at them closely - and then just gently bend them into alignment. But, be careful not to press them so firmly you break the glass around their bass.

 You can also bend the pins out a bit to tighten the fit. Sometimes that's helpful to eliminate hum / hiss in the tubes - which can result from poor contact.

 By the way... WD40... is a pretty good cleaner to clean oxidation and dirt off tube pins. Just use it and an old tooth brush, and a paper towel.


----------



## Skylab

If it hasn't been said, one thing that is very important is that when removing or inserting a tube, you very gently rock it back and forth in a small circular fashion while inserting/removing. Do NOT just pull or push.


----------



## Callous

EDIT: Nevermind guys, got everything working. Sounds amazing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks everyone!


----------



## BigTony

Ok, time to bring my account up to date.
 I had a noise problem in the right hand channel, but after lots of umming and erring, bench testing and general poking about, its basically down to leave it to warm up and no noise is then audible, so I'll leave it at that. Maybe the faulty component will show its hand down the line in a puff of smoke 

 So I finally decided to go with the general advice and buy some HD 650's to pair up with the DV322.
 And they came yesterday, and if it wasn't for the pressure in my temples after 6 hours listening I'd have thrown a sickie today and stayed at home with my new love.
 WOW... and Holy**** .. come to mind to describe the sound. I prised them off my head to put the comfy Beyers back on, but then the sound seems to have dissappeared. I had always been very impressed with my DT 770's, but now I think there just my comfy slob about cans for TV and DVD and packing in my case for hotel trips. I really can't quite believe how great the HD 650's sound, but if anyone have a DV322 and hasn't connected up a pair of 650's, then you really should.

 And I have no idea if they will sound better after a burn in period, this is how they sounded out of the box.

 BT


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, time to bring my account up to date.
 I had a noise problem in the right hand channel, but after lots of umming and erring, bench testing and general poking about, its basically down to leave it to warm up and no noise is then audible, so I'll leave it at that. Maybe the faulty component will show its hand down the line in a puff of smoke 

 So I finally decided to go with the general advice and buy some HD 650's to pair up with the DV322.
 And they came yesterday, and if it wasn't for the pressure in my temples after 6 hours listening I'd have thrown a sickie today and stayed at home with my new love.
 WOW... and Holy**** .. come to mind to describe the sound. I prised them off my head to put the comfy Beyers back on, but then the sound seems to have dissappeared. I had always been very impressed with my DT 770's, but now I think there just my comfy slob about cans for TV and DVD and packing in my case for hotel trips. I really can't quite believe how great the HD 650's sound, but if anyone have a DV322 and hasn't connected up a pair of 650's, then you really should.

 And I have no idea if they will sound better after a burn in period, this is how they sounded out of the box.

 BT_

 

Congrats with your purchase of the HD650's! I feel you. They are awesome cans, and the DV332 is doing a great job driving them.


----------



## musicmind

BT, glad you are enjoying the HD650 combo.
 Do you find the noise is reduced with the HD650?
 How long do you leave the amp on for to get the noise to subside?

 Thanks


----------



## Godkin

The 332 and HD650s are SWEET.


----------



## Zodduska

Grats on the HD650 DV332 ultra combo BigTony! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If anyone has yet to hear it I suggest listening to the "I'm not a Hero" track from the Dark Knight soundtrack, one of the coolest audio experiences I've had with this amp/can match.


----------



## DCT

Hi guys, How many hours do you think it takes for the amp to fully burn? can you notice any difference during the burning in process?


----------



## BigTony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *musicmind* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BT, glad you are enjoying the HD650 combo.
 Do you find the noise is reduced with the HD650?
 How long do you leave the amp on for to get the noise to subside?

 Thanks_

 

I leave the amp on for an hour before I do any listening, then there is no audible noise coming through. When I first had the 650's on I kept hearing a wierd noise, but it turns out it was the cable rattlling (I need to get a longer cable made) that I could hear.


----------



## Godkin

The 332 does need to burn in. Darkvoice recommend around 50hrs, but personally I think it takes a lot longer, especially the tubes: at least 100hrs.


----------



## musicmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I leave the amp on for an hour before I do any listening, then there is no audible noise coming through. When I first had the 650's on I kept hearing a wierd noise, but it turns out it was the cable rattlling (I need to get a longer cable made) that I could hear._

 

Thanks for the feedback BigTony. Most people feel that valve amps need to warm up for a while to sound their best anyway, so I guess its not too bad to have to wait a bit before listening.


----------



## hawkhead

Right I am now going to change my mind.

 I was tidying up last week sorting out the various tubes and came across the M8100's. I thought I'd give them another go just for comparison to my current favourite the W403B's.

 Well the slightly hard glassy edge on some songs has gone and I now actually prefer these. They are more transparent, have a bigger sound stage and better detail. Not a night and day difference but how often do you get a free upgrade ?


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right I am now going to change my mind.

 I was tidying up last week sorting out the various tubes and came across the M8100's. I thought I'd give them another go just for comparison to my current favourite the W403B's.

 Well the slightly hard glassy edge on some songs has gone and I now actually prefer these. They are more transparent, have a bigger sound stage and better detail. Not a night and day difference but how often do you get a free upgrade ?_

 

Great tubes. I also prefer the M8100's over the WE403B's. Less veiled, better definition in the bass, and smooth but detailed top.


----------



## DCT

I know this question have been asked before but have any modify their darkvoice 332 beside change the fuse


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DCT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this question have been asked before but have any modify their darkvoice 332 beside change the fuse_

 

AFAIK most modifications are external, i.e Tubes, Power cords, fuses etc although I think I remember somebody upgrading the volume pot, but I can't find the right page.


----------



## BigTony

I've been after a longer cable for my HD 650's, seems that most are going to cost about the same price as the HD 650's themselves.
 What is the skinny with an after market cable between the DV 332 and the HD 650's - and how is it going to compare 'bang for buck' or is it a case of a lot of cash for a very small improvement?
 I can splice and dice 2 cables for Tohmann for 30 euros which will be tailored to the right length, or shell out $400 for an Equinox! But I don't want to scimp now, if people feel that I'd be really missng out on a great sound I'll go with the better cable. Who needs food anyways.

 BT


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DCT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this question have been asked before but have any modify their darkvoice 332 beside change the fuse_

 

As for modding, you may PM OmoNemo, as while he owned the amp, he extensively modded it (upgrading IEC socket, majority of internal wiring, and some internal components). Though he no longer owns it, I think his input might be helpful.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been after a longer cable for my HD 650's, seems that most are going to cost about the same price as the HD 650's themselves.
 What is the skinny with an after market cable between the DV 332 and the HD 650's - and how is it going to compare 'bang for buck' or is it a case of a lot of cash for a very small improvement?
 I can splice and dice 2 cables for Tohmann for 30 euros which will be tailored to the right length, or shell out $400 for an Equinox! But I don't want to scimp now, if people feel that I'd be really missng out on a great sound I'll go with the better cable. Who needs food anyways.

 BT_

 

I'm one of many people here who use the cable that's as expensive as the phones themselves (Equinox). I must say that, for me, the improvement over the stock cable is in no way significant, but I can't say the cable is not justified its asking price, as in audiophile world, many people seem to be willing to spend so much money for a little improvement in their sound system.

 I myself somehow can't go back to my stock cable after using Equinox for a while. At first, you might think the improvement is not significant, which is true, but eventually you will realise that your music is not the same without that insignificant improvement.


----------



## DCT

Thanks PrTv

 i've got HiFi-tuning Fuse but i'm not using them yet do you think they need to be burn-in? I'm just gonna burn-in the power cable first before changing the fuse


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DCT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks PrTv

 i've got HiFi-tuning Fuse but i'm not using them yet do you think they need to be burn-in? I'm just gonna burn-in the power cable first before changing the fuse_

 

I'm not sure if hi-fi fuses need any run-in like other equipments, but I myself couldn't notice any change (both negative and positive) in sound, using my ISOClean fuse from the 1st to 60ish hours. I think only time you'll notice the change in sound is when you replace a stock fuse with an audiophile one. After that, it's very difficult to detect any change in sound.

 By the way, from my experience with this particular amp, IMO, upgrading power cord wouldn't yield much improvement, as I found that the improvement was very small moving from a stock power cord to a premium one (“Hovland Mainline” cable, sold at >360$ per 2M). I found that, if you want some sonic improvements, it’s a lot cheaper upgrading tubes, fuse, or even line filter/power conditioner.


----------



## DCT

"upgrading power cord wouldn't yield much improvement"
 i agree, the improvement is subtle compare to getting a DAC. i Bought a ZERO Dac and notice significant improvement. Sound is more transparent and bass is tight & strong


----------



## BigTony

where can you get the fuse in the EU?


----------



## dhammavijaya

Here

Xindak 6A & 2A Pure Silver Fuses - For Audio Components on eBay, also Other, Cables Connectors, Home Audio Hi Fi, Consumer Electronics (end time 03-Nov-08 06:23:54 GMT)


----------



## spookygonk

Well, with the forum crash we lost the last few posts, I've put together the ones from my post notification, though none of mine showed up.

  Quote:


 *Gradofan2 wrote 23/ Oct /2008 14:19*
 I must tell you DV332 owners...

 I just got my new maxed WA6 SE with the Sophia Princess 274B tube - it is phenomenal, even without burn in, especially with low impedance phones.

 But... I must tell you... the DV332 with the right tubes (some of those noted immediately below), source and the Senns - certainly sounds about 90% as good, for about 25% of the price - just a bit more refinement, and resolution with all phones, especially low impedance phones. I doubt I would make the huge investment in the WA6 SE over that of the DV332, again, if I'd had them to compare before making it. Though, the WA6 SE does sound phenomenal - just not 4x better than the DV332, not really even 2x better - unless you're really an OCD case! 

 The DV332 is simply a "huge bargain." You can be quite comfortable in just ceasing your search with it.
 ***************
*
 Spookygonk wrote 23/ Oct /2008 14:30*ish
 (Paraphrasing what I wrote at the time):

 I’ve been going through the posts in this thread to find the best combinations for this amp and as far as I can see these two are the near the top:

 Mullard M8100 (or better CV4010) + Ulanovsk 6S19P-B (or -V) = Rich & precise
 Or
 WE304B / E403B + Svetlana 6S19P-B (or -V) = Clear and precise

 Is there an easy way of finding out what tubes are what? I have quite a few different spares that came with the amp and I'd like to now which is which and what else I need to buy.
 ***************

*Godkin wrote 23/ Oct /2008 14:53*
 You seem to have done your "homework" on the tube front, Spookyg*u*nk. The two combinations are sound great, and are miles better than the stock Chinese rubbish. Both are good because they play to the others strengths: the Mullards are lush and rich, while the Ulyanovsks are lean and precise; likewise, the Svetlana sound richer than the comparible Ulyanovsk and the WE403Bs are lean and crystal clear. 

 It is pretty easy to distinguish one tube from the other as they are marked clearly. With some military tubes marking may be limited to the type of tube and not the manufacturer, although they are usually marked on the box. With Russian tubes now it is a bit more difficult, and really it comes down to knowing your logos. I think I post some info on Russian tube logos a while back, but if not here it is again:

 Russian Tube Factories and Logos (Russian Tube Factories and Logos)
 ***************

*Godkin wrote 23/ Oct /2008 17:12*
 A tube buffer, in my opinion, opens up the sound, and to those with SS amps adds a touch of tube richness and warmth. I have had 3 buffers over the years and all definately improved the sound: an MF X-10 V3 was particularly good as it added slightly better dynamics, but it could not match the YAQIN in terms of soundstaging. At the minute, I have a CORE AUDIO buffer that uses two RCA 6BC4 triodes, although there is a version that uses two 6AK5s: beautiful sounding piece of kit - the best buffer I have heard. 

 The buffer connects between your source and amp. Mine is connected, via RCAs between my X-DAC V3 and 332. 
 

That's all I have. Thanks for the link, Gudkin. ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## musicmind

Thanks for reposting spookygonk.


----------



## omegaman

Yeah, nice work spookygonk. If you are still having problems identifying your tubes why not post a few pics of them.


----------



## Gradofan2

Since my note was lost in the crash... I'd like to reiterate the following point.

 "I must tell you DV332 owners...

 I just got my new maxed WA6 SE with the Sophia Princess 274B tube - it is phenomenal, even without burn in, especially with low impedance phones.

 But... I must tell you... the DV332 with the right tubes (some of those noted immediately below - Mullard M8100/EF95s and Ulynovsks 6S19s and WE403Bs or Tung Sol 6AK5s and Svets 6S19s), source and the Senns - certainly sounds about 90%+ as good, for about 25% of the price - just a bit more refinement, and resolution with all phones, especially low impedance phones. If I were using only Senns, I doubt I would make the huge investment in the WA6 SE over that of the DV332, again, if I'd had them to compare before making it. Though, the WA6 SE does sound phenomenal - just not 4x better than the DV332, not really even 2x better - unless you're really an OCD case! 

 The DV332 is simply a "huge bargain." You can be quite comfortable in just ceasing your search with it - especially if you're using Senns."

 Though I would note... that the DV332 runs at a fairly warm temperature... and no doubt external cooling with a small 4" table fan will extend the life of its components.


----------



## Godkin

Cheers, Spookygonk.


----------



## spookygonk

Just picked up 4 Svetlana 6S19P-V, just because.


----------



## nor_spoon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just picked up 4 Svetlana 6S19P-V, just because. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have many tubes I probably will never have to use too. Nice to have some spares just in case


----------



## spookygonk

Well after reading on this thread about people buying tubes and finding that they don't work (well) for what ever reason, i thought it would be handy to stock up on the essentials.

 I tell you, the first thing that struck me about seeing the DV332 "in the flesh" was how small the tubes actually were. I was sort of expecting the 6S19Ps to be the smaller tubes with the larger pair like the 6AS7 of the Darkvoice 336i. But size isn't everything, now is it?

 Just did a stock check of my tubes:

  Quote:


 2 x no name 6C19 star above with three lines either side & two oriental symbols above it. One of these has a “J” in a circle on one side.
 2 x no name 6J1 in a star with 846J underneath 
 

Would these be the stock Chinese tubes?

  Quote:


 2 x no name 6J1 with brown lettering that’s faded / rubbed off so can’t be read.
 4 x Ulyanovsk 6S19P-B with the newer arrow symbol
 2 x Svetlana 6S19P-B with the old style “C” in a circle
 2 x Mullard M8100, they might say CV4010 on the backs
 2 x General Electric 5654 / 6AK5W
 2 x LM Eriksson 403B
 2 x Hytron JHY-6AK5

 Currently in the amp:
 2 x Western Electric 403B
 2 x Ulyanovsk 6S19P-B with the newer arrow symbol 
 

Not a bad selection to start with, is it?


----------



## omegaman

Nice collection, very similar to my own.

 My current selection ( and has been for a while ) is the Svets and the LM Eriksson 403B.


----------



## Godkin

Great collection, Spookygonk. The 6C19s and 6J1s with the star are the stock tubes. You also seem to have all your Russian logos sorted out. Check your Russian tubes, the year of they were made is usually printed on them: my Ulys were made in 1981, while the Svets were made in 1978.


----------



## omegaman

Looks like the 332 is making a comeback. In stock at AudiophileChina.com from November 08.

 I know a lot of people have been interested in getting one but they have not been around for a while.


----------



## PrTv

According to AudiophileChina, only 50 additional units will be manufactured, and then DV will cease making any more DV332.

 Too bad to see the company stops making such a good product, and IMO, there is no other model to replace it at this price point, as DV336, as we all know, is inferior, and DV3322, despite that it uses the same tubes, is more expensive, so I think it's of an upper class product.


----------



## Godkin

It will be sad day indeed to see the demise of the 332. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 All HD650s owners worldwide should wear black armbands as a sign of respect.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to AudiophileChina, only 50 additional units will be manufactured, and then DV will cease making any more DV332.

 Too bad to see the company stops making such a good product, and IMO, there is no other model to replace it at this price point, as DV336, as we all know, is inferior, and DV3322, despite that it uses the same tubes, is more expensive, so I think it's of an upper class product._

 

It also uses very different components... which... no one on Headfi seems to revere. So... it will no doubt sound quite different than the current DV332. Very possibly not actually better, but... perhaps... worse. 

 If Darkvoice knew what they were doing... they would not "mess with success." They're taking a huge gamble by discontinuing the DV332, and attempting to "force" the DV3322 on their market at a higher price. 

 A huge "dark cloud" will overhang the DV3322, until someone actually compares the two amps... and... objectively proclaims... not only that... the DV3322 is better than the DV332... but that... it is enough better to justify the higher price. That may be a very long time coming. Which is no doubt why they decided to continue to manufacture the DV332, if even for a limited run. 

 As for me... I'm a huge skeptic... that the DV3322 is actually better than the DV332.


----------



## Godkin

Demanding higher prices for their products, be it DARKVOICE or anyone else, seems to be a very dangerous policy at the moment. The "credit crunch" means that all of us have less to spend on luxuries like headphone amps. Here in the UK the situation is doubly bad, as prices not only increase but the value of the pound plunges against the dollar (from £1.00/$2.00 to £1.00/$1.50).

 It certainly makes you think twice about buying, and what you are going to buy. DARKVOICE have had their own problems during the past year, and the devastating earthquake was bound to increase their prices. But are the increases justifiable? I cannot say for sure, but it appears that DV may be cashing in on the reputation they have built up - and we have built up for them - mainly on the threads of this forum.


----------



## DaMnEd

The dollar is just crazy atm, up 25% vs the €/£ in 3 months...

 The only good thing about importing in Europe is this: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...01:0002:ENDF

 Can't wait for 1Dez to come, I have some parts for DIY to buy, but sill, the VAT I would have to pay would be 20% over here, still losing 5% against the dollar rise (and probably more once 1Dez comes.... lets hope not).


----------



## Deftoned

Hey!

 I'm not sure if you have noticed but audiophilechina actually stock another headamp called Tingfeng MZ-2, which looks very much like the 332 using the same tubes. 95$ cheaper shipped than the 332 too.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deftoned* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey!

 I'm not sure if you have noticed but audiophilechina actually stock another headamp called Tingfeng MZ-2, which looks very much like the 332 using the same tubes. 95$ cheaper shipped than the 332 too._

 

According to Audiophile China... this amp has different internal components than the DV332, and is not a "clone" of the DV332.


----------



## Deftoned

Ah, I didn't realise it had already been mentioned.


----------



## That dude

I'm about to take the plunge and get myself a 332, BUT, I've read that it's a pretty bright amp. My headphones are the AKG K501 and a Sennheiser HD480 (600ohm). I'm wondering if it's the best choice after all? And could tube rolling change this overwhelmingly bright characteristic of the amp? Thanks


----------



## jellojoe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *That dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm about to take the plunge and get myself a 332, BUT, I've read that it's a pretty bright amp. My headphones are the AKG K501 and a Sennheiser HD480 (600ohm). I'm wondering if it's the best choice after all? And could tube rolling change this overwhelmingly bright characteristic of the amp? Thanks_

 

The AKG K501 is an excellent match with DV 332. I'm using Svets and M8100 for the K501. I'm not sure where you read that the DV 332 is an overly bright amp. I think it's been said that it's not a tubey tube amp though.


----------



## That dude

Oh I see, thanks. I guess I can't go wrong with it then. 

 It will be my first serious desktop amp.


----------



## bada bing

I was surfing ebay yesterday and my old saved search brought up a four pack of NOS erikkson 403B tubes with no bids. I already have a pair of these and they are my favorites out of a fairly extensive collection for the DV332. Just a few months ago, there was some competition for desirable 403A/b variants and prices were up. Evidently not so much now, my minimum bid of $9.95 went uncontested. Seems like everyone is satiated / moving on from the DV332 & LDIV tube hunt ?

 Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good score for spares of my favorites for the darkvoice. Now if interest would just move away from NOS WE300b matched pairs all would be right with the world.


----------



## spookygonk

That's a great find. I'm trying to stay off ebay for more tubes, though I have just picked up a QED Qonduit power cable as that's been recommended in this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to AudiophileChina, only 50 additional units will be manufactured, and then DV will cease making any more DV332._

 

Maybe they are toe-ing the water to see if there's still an interest for the DV332. If they sell this 50 quickly, they may decide to keep it going a while longer, that's unless they've changed the factory process for the DV3322 model...

 Finally had some time to try out the amp yesterday (work, away for the weekend and a migraine Monday, all kept me from checking it out, dammit). Haven't really been blown away by it so far, I mean it's good, but not the *zing!* I was expecting. All I have been able to compare it against is my LD Mk1 portable (with LT1364 upgrade). The sound is more spacious than the portable and I think there's more separation to the instruments, but nothing I can put my finger on as yet. So I've just put in the Svetlana 6S19P-B with the Eriksson 403B combo and am letting it warm up.

 The kit I'm using is Pioneer DV-656A => coax out => Alchemist DS-T-1 DAC => Precious Metals Silver Signal 203 => DV332 => HD580 with HD650 cable. 
 Using the Pio as a disc spinner I can't find my Marantz Cd player, it's boxed in the attic somewhere.

*edit* I think I'm finding the Svetlana 6S19P-B with the Eriksson 403B much more enjoyable. On the Hugh Masekela track, Stimela (The Coal Train) there was a clap from the audience out and down to the left of the audio field. Well outside the headphones. Had to listen to that part twice as the first time I thought something had fallen over in my livingroom. DOn't think I've ever had that before.


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*edit* I think I'm finding the Svetlana 6S19P-B with the Eriksson 403B much more enjoyable. On the Hugh Masekela track, Stimela (The Coal Train) there was a clap from the audience out and down to the left of the audio field. Well outside the headphones. Had to listen to that part twice as the first time I thought something had fallen over in my livingroom. DOn't think I've ever had that before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

My impression of the above combo is the same as yours. I did try almost all good tube combinations in this thread (not that many, anyway) and my 1st choice is still Svet+LM.

 However, now I'm burning-in my new NOS pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5W to see if it's as good as many people said. The tubes have ~10Hrs of operation, and I still prefer LM now. IMO, nothing can match the clarity and spacious that LM provides. With Tung-Sol, vocal seems a bit fat and warm for me, and the sound is not as detailed as that of LM.


----------



## rurika

Does anyone try DV3322 yet ?


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rurika* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone try DV3322 yet ?_

 

I'm afraid no one here could really answer your question (yet), as 3322 is very scarce, and at that price point (especially when shipping is taken into account), most people here may feel more secure to pick the tried-and-true DV332. Some may opt to put a bit more money and get the real giant, DV337 instead.

 By the way, I checked AudiophileChina site and couldn't find DV332 listed there. I remember seeing them advertised 50 more units will be made sometime ago.

 Don't tell me all those 50 units have been sold.


----------



## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *PrTv* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_However, now I'm burning-in my new NOS pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5W to see if it's as good as many people said._

 

Any update on the Tung-Sol?


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any update on the Tung-Sol?_

 

Now, the tubes have around >40Hrs, and I think I started to like it. Bass is a bit better than the very first hours with a bit more impact and focus, vocal seems to be a bit less "full" for me (which is a good thing). One thing I like about Tung-Sol is its bass reproduction, as it provides better bass compared to LM. However, when it comes to detail and soundstage, LM is still superior for me.

 This doesn't mean Tung-Sol sounds bad or anything, as it's my 2nd most favorite tube now. Additionally, its lush and sweet sounding even makes some record that sounds boring with my LM (too analytical) more listenable.

 My order of preference is as follows: 
 LM403B>Tung-Sol>WE403A (I think it has a bit better bass, compared to 403B)>WE403B>Mullard8100.

 I don't think one could really go wrong with Tung-Sol tube, so grab one when you can! How about start with this one. The tubes were manufactured in 57, which was a golden age of tube, and they match perfectly. Too bad for me he doesn't ship overseas, otherwise, I would get another pair from him for sure.


----------



## That dude

Hi guys. My 332 has arrived. But I've got some questions about how to take care of it. Since it's my first time handling a tube amp, please forgive my ignorance. Anyway, how do I take care of the tube amp properly? How long can I turn it on for? (It gets really hot and I'm living in tropical climate so it's really scary) Thanks in advance for the help guys.

 P.S. the amp sounds great, superbly detailed and extraordinarily powerful. No regrets!


----------



## Ricochet

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *That dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. My 332 has arrived._

 

I know this amp is discontinued already or in near future and was hoping to find one, but after hole day of googling unfortunately can’t find anywhere.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *That dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. My 332 has arrived. But I've got some questions about how to take care of it. Since it's my first time handling a tube amp, please forgive my ignorance. Anyway, how do I take care of the tube amp properly? How long can I turn it on for? (It gets really hot and I'm living in tropical climate so it's really scary) Thanks in advance for the help guys.

 P.S. the amp sounds great, superbly detailed and extraordinarily powerful. No regrets!_

 

Turn it on about 30 minutes before you want to use it - tube amps sound better after some warm-up. Turn it off if you are leaving the house, if you know you won't use it the rest of the day, or just turn it off before going to sleep.

 Enjoy!


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *That dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys. My 332 has arrived. But I've got some questions about how to take care of it. Since it's my first time handling a tube amp, please forgive my ignorance. Anyway, how do I take care of the tube amp properly? How long can I turn it on for? (It gets really hot and I'm living in tropical climate so it's really scary) Thanks in advance for the help guys.

 P.S. the amp sounds great, superbly detailed and extraordinarily powerful. No regrets!_

 

Congrats on the arrival, I'm sure you'll love it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For the heat issue, it's also very hot where I live, and my solution is just using some fan to blow some cool air into the amp. Or you may unscrew the bottom plate and put some small fans underneath the amp. The trick is just keeping it cool, cause I don't think it's a good thing running it hot.


----------



## That dude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricochet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this amp is discontinued already or in near future and was hoping to find one, but after hole day of googling unfortunately can’t find anywhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, I got it through a guy on my local forum. He still has a few pieces left but I don't think he would ship internationally since he imported it in the first place.

 Thanks for the tips guys. I realized that the sound improves significantly upon heating. Hopefully it won't overheat. lol.


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricochet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know this amp is discontinued already or in near future and was hoping to find one, but after hole day of googling unfortunately can’t find anywhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Read back a few pages in this thread, AudiophileChina are going to release a few more some time in November.


----------



## Ricochet

Yeah thanks, I’ve seen that. Only worrying thing is that 332 completely taken off from AudiophileChina website now. I’m considering Little Dot MK IV SE now as seems they back in stock. 
 How LD mkIV compare to DV332?
 Many thanks, Russ.


----------



## Ben Diss

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricochet* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah thanks, I’ve seen that. Only worrying thing is that 332 completely taken off from AudiophileChina website now. I’m considering Little Dot MK IV SE now as seems they back in stock. 
 How LD mkIV compare to DV332?
 Many thanks, Russ._

 

Great question...


----------



## robojack

I obtained my 332 from GradoFan, who had a severe case of seller's remorse immediately after selling it. Hopefully he's found a better, or at least equally enjoyable amp to sell it. I'm still enjoying mine more than ever with the HD650s.


----------



## shampoosuicide

I'm picking up a DV332 tomorrow, and will be running it out of my Zero.

 I have a few questions:

 1) How do I connect the two? 
 2) Do I turn on the preamp function on my Zero?
 3) At what hour should I set the volume pot on my Zero at?
 4) How do I burn in the 332, or use it on a daily basis? I understand it has to warm for 30 min before it sounds its best. Do I turn it off when I'm not using it, or do I just leave it on?

 Thanks!


----------



## Ben Diss

I'd love to hear what you think of this combo. Please be sure and let us know your impressions.


----------



## bOUddha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm picking up a DV332 tomorrow, and will be running it out of my Zero.

 I have a few questions:

 1) How do I connect the two? 
 2) Do I turn on the preamp function on my Zero?
 3) At what hour should I set the volume pot on my Zero at?
 4) How do I burn in the 332, or use it on a daily basis? I understand it has to warm for 30 min before it sounds its best. Do I turn it off when I'm not using it, or do I just leave it on?

 Thanks!_

 

4) Just turn it on and use it. Sound may improve (does to me) after an hour or less, but hardly enough to justify wasting the first hour's worth of energy, tube life and amp life to spend unattended. See if you can detect what parts of the music reproduction improve in the early hours of "burn-in"...that info might help you evaluate the inevitable new tubes!

 ENJOY, don't wait & see...


----------



## syg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm picking up a DV332 tomorrow, and will be running it out of my Zero.

 I have a few questions:

 1) How do I connect the two? 
 2) Do I turn on the preamp function on my Zero?
 3) At what hour should I set the volume pot on my Zero at?
 4) How do I burn in the 332, or use it on a daily basis? I understand it has to warm for 30 min before it sounds its best. Do I turn it off when I'm not using it, or do I just leave it on?

 Thanks!_

 

1) RCA cables.
 2) You can either not press the "Phone" button, and it'll just have line-level output. OR, you can press the "Phone" button and not plug headphones in, in which case the Zero volume control controls the preamp volume as well.
 3) Whatever you're comfortable with.


----------



## garthfluff

4) The general rule is no more than 8 hours really.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Okay, I've had my DV on for 6 hours now, and it's gotten very, very hot. Is this normal? Should I turn it off?

 Also, is it recommended to turn off the DV when it's not in use, or is it okay to just leave it on? Will it be alright to leave it on overnight to burn-in, and then use it in the morning?

 My impressions so far with my HD595 is that the sound is certainly fuller and more detailed. However, the bass is a tad overpowering, and everything sounds a bit muddy, and like it's lost a bit of bite and aggression. Will this go away with burn-in? I've got Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes on.

 With the bass so overpowering on my HD595, I'm wondering how much bassier they will sound with the HD650 :\


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


 Okay, I've had my DV on for 6 hours now, and it's gotten very, very hot. Is this normal? Should I turn it off? 
 

It's normal for this amp to run fairly hot. If you feel that the amp runs too hot, just use a small fan to blow some cool air at the amp, though, I don't think you can damage the amp running it hot, as initially my unit ran without a fan for about a month and I found no problem so far.

  Quote:


 Also, is it recommended to turn off the DV when it's not in use, or is it okay to just leave it on? Will it be alright to leave it on overnight to burn-in, and then use it in the morning? 
 

As many other said, if you plan to use it within an hour or two, I think you'd better let it run; otherwise, turn it off. And I don't think leaving it on all night is a good idea, since tube amp generates so much heat and you don't know what will happen running it unattended.

  Quote:


 My impressions so far with my HD595 is that the sound is certainly fuller and more detailed. However, the bass is a tad overpowering, and everything sounds a bit muddy, and like it's lost a bit of bite and aggression. Will this go away with burn-in? I've got Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes on.

 With the bass so overpowering on my HD595, I'm wondering how much bassier they will sound with the HD650 :\ 
 

I don't find bass overpowering with my HD650 both new and old version (metal and black silk damping material), and whether Equinoxed or not. I must say that with the "old" version of 650, bass, with this amp, may be a bit overwhelming, but in no way overpowering, especially when I compare this amp with other headphone amps. 

 However, I can't say whether run-in can help alleviate this problem, since I have this amp for almost a year and I almost forget my first impression of its bass in the very first hours.

 If you prefer less bass, I recommend Western Electric 403A or 403B, and LM Ericssons 403B. With these two you'll get less bass, more treble, larger sound stage and clearer vocal. LM403B is currently my favorite as I prefer its clarity to Tung-Sol and Mullard M8100's lushness.


----------



## BigTony

I've just recived some Ulyan tubes, going to burn them in with Mullard 8100's - should be lovely!
 I'm using Earth HDAM in my Zero, how does that stack up against Moon, bass wise?
 Been wanting to try WE or EM tubes, but can't find any so far in UK/EU.


----------



## shampoosuicide

After 8 hours of listening, I'm finding the bass on the 332 to be too pronounced and overpowering. There is a distinct impression of a loss in bite and aggresion in songs, almost as if the higher frequencies have been loss/overpowered. Everything sounds quite muddy. I have the 332 running out of my Zero DAC. I much prefer the sound coming straight out of the Zero at the moment.

 I got the 332 used, with Ulyanovsk 6S19P-V and Mullard M8110 tubes, and am using them with an HD-595. I am seriously contemplating selling them off at the moment.

 Will the sound improve drastically with burn-in? Also, I imagine that these would sound extremely muddy and bassy with the 650? Or is it perhaps that the 332 doesn't mate well with a low impedance phone like the 595 (50 ohms)?


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ben Diss* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd love to hear what you think of this combo. Please be sure and let us know your impressions._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just recived some Ulyan tubes, going to burn them in with Mullard 8100's - should be lovely!
 I'm using Earth HDAM in my zero, has does that stack up against Moon, bass wise?
 Been wanting to try WE or EM tubes, but can't find any so far in UK/EU._

 

Hi BigTony, I should be receiving my Moon this Friday actually, and will update again.

 How does the Earth sound with your DV and 650? I find the bass too overpowering with my 595 (see post above), and everything sounds more muddy than straight out of the Zero. I couldn't imagine how bassy they'd sound like with the 595.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi BigTony, I should be receiving my Moon this Friday actually, and will update again.

 How does the Earth sound with your DV and 650? I find the bass too overpowering with my 595 (see post above), and everything sounds more muddy than straight out of the Zero. I couldn't imagine how bassy they'd sound like with the 595._

 

Something's


----------



## BigTony

Only just fired up with new tubes, but no mud - the DV 332 loves the hd650's - will see how it develops.

 The sound from my DV is much better than anything from the Zero with lt1364 opamps in h/a.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi BigTony, I should be receiving my Moon this Friday actually, and will update again.

 How does the Earth sound with your DV and 650? I find the bass too overpowering with my 595 (see post above), and everything sounds more muddy than straight out of the Zero. I couldn't imagine how bassy they'd sound like with the 595._

 

Something's not right somewhere - the DV332 is not excessively dark, and its bass does not overwhelm the other frequencies, especially with those tubes. Though, the WE403B is likely brighter and lighter than the Mullard.

 With the right version of the Senns ("new" version of HD580/600/650s), and a well matched CDP/DAC - the amp is a great match with high impedance Senns. I suspect neither the DAC, or your phones, are the best match with the DV332.

 With the right set up... the DV332 competes with the SPs, and Woo Audio amps quite well.

 However... if you're particularly sensitive to bass, and prefer a sound with emphasis in upper mids and highs (tilted up) - I suppose you could find the DV332's bass a bit overwhelming.


----------



## nor_spoon

Try some Ericsson 403B tubes. They are skewed a bit further up the frequency range compared to the Mullards, if I recall correctly.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gradofan2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Something's not right somewhere - the DV332 is not excessively dark, and its bass does not overwhelm the other frequencies, especially with those tubes. Though, the WE403B is likely brighter and lighter than the Mullard.

 With the right version of the Senns ("new" version of HD580/600/650s), and a well matched CDP/DAC - the amp is a great match with high impedance Senns. I suspect neither the DAC, or your phones, are the best match with the DV332.

 With the right set up... the DV332 competes with the SPs, and Woo Audio amps quite well.

 However... if you're particularly sensitive to bass, and prefer a sound with emphasis in upper mids and highs (tilted up) - I suppose you could find the DV332's bass a bit overwhelming._

 

Gradofan2,

 Could the problem be with the iffy RCA jack on my Zero? The holes on the RCA jack seem a bit too large for the RCA cable, so they fit very loosely. I had to use some blutack and a lot of adjustment to get a signal.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gradofan2,

 Could the problem be with the iffy RCA jack on my Zero? The holes on the RCA jack seem a bit too large for the RCA cable, so they fit very loosely. I had to use some blutack and a lot of adjustment to get a signal._

 

Maybe... sometimes the interconnects can make a bit of a difference in the sound. I use some CT Cryo-Silver ICs - which have a bit cleaner / leaner sound, than some copper cables do. 

 I used the various CDPs / DACs in my signature - and the DV332 had almost a SS sound it was so detailed, clear and bright. Though... it did have strong, dynamic bass - it was not overpowering, or flabby / boomy in any way.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Thanks for the input.

 Btw, I've had my 332 on for just 2 hours, but can feel heat emanating from the amp (the entire chassis, not just the tubes) from about a 5cm distance.

 Is this normal?

 I apologise for all the noob questions... This is my first tube amp.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the input.

 Btw, I've had my 332 on for just 2 hours, but can feel heat emanating from the amp (the entire chassis, not just the tubes) from about a 5cm distance.

 Is this normal?

 I apologise for all the noob questions... This is my first tube amp._

 

Yes... the DV332 gets pretty warm. Its case acts as a heat sink to dissipate the heat of the internal components. 

 Not that you have to... but... I cooled mine with a 3" portable desk fan I purchased at WalMart (metal by Massey). Its small enough to fit on a shelf / table beside the amp. Its fairly quiet and keeps it nice and cool. It may help to extend the life of the internal components - if you plan to keep the amp for several years. Though... you may not find fans at WalMart until next spring.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Thank you again, Gradofan2.

 Lastly, how many hours a day should the DV332 to be left on? What kind of usage should it see?

 I was told no more than 8 hours by one forum member. I also understand that it is best to turn it off when not in use (not left on overnight). Would it be alright to leave it on for long intervals then? ie. On for 6-8 hours, 1-2 hours off to cool, then on for another 6-8 hours?


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you again, Gradofan2.

 Lastly, how many hours a day should the DV332 to be left on? What kind of usage should it see?

 I was told no more than 8 hours by one forum member. I also understand that it is best to turn it off when not in use (not left on overnight). Would it be alright to leave it on for long intervals then? ie. On for 6-8 hours, 1-2 hours off to cool, then on for another 6-8 hours?_

 

I'd leave it on, only when you're planning to use it for extended periods (a few hours) - even though, it will sound better after its warmed for 2 or 3 hours, or so. For example... leave it on over the weekend... but... not through the week, if you're not going to be home, during the day, to use it. I often leave mine on Saturday and Sunday, when I'm home and using it.

 I would not leave it on for extended periods (4-8 hrs, etc.) when you won't be home, using it intermittently. You don't want to run the risk of an incident of some kind, while you're away.

 It will likely take about 400+ hrs to burn in and settle - but, I would just accumulate those through normal, intermittent, recurring use, as suggested above.


----------



## BigTony

Just an update: Finally got some Tung-Sol 6AK5 to play with - cooking as we speak, initial thought, quite bright compared to the Mullards. Whats a good partner tube? 
 Also, these weren't a balanced pair (i got 5 from ebay) is the best idea to burn them all in for a few hours, then mix them around to find a good balance?
 I do love this amp!


----------



## Godkin

Burn them in for a good bit longer than a few hours. Tonally, the TUNG-SOLs are on the richer side of the spectrum, but they are not as lush as the MULLARDs. A good tube to partner the TUNG-SOLs would be the SVETLANA 6S19Ps. Richer than the ULYANOVSKs, so should take some of the sharpness away from the 6AK5s.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BigTony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just an update: Finally got some Tung-Sol 6AK5 to play with - cooking as we speak, initial thought, quite bright compared to the Mullards. Whats a good partner tube? 
 Also, these weren't a balanced pair (i got 5 from ebay) is the best idea to burn them all in for a few hours, then mix them around to find a good balance?
 I do love this amp!_

 

Yes... you'll need to burn them in. 

 I ran them with my Svets, not my Ulys. The Svets are a little more mellow. They're a great complement to Senns, which are a bit dark. The Svet / Tung Sol combo has a very solid, impactful, tight, smooth sound, with good extension in highs and lows - the typical Tung Sol sound. 

 The Ulys are a better complement to the Mullards - they're a bit brighter, and more airy, than the Svets.

 But... whatever tube combo... the DV332 is a superb amp, especially with Senns.


----------



## BigTony

Ok, running Tung-Sol with my Svets, wow!! what a difference in sound, very bright, almost SS in presentatiom, but lovely bass and top end. Lost the luxury chocolate gooieness of the Mullards, but a real change, much more than i expected - a bigger sonic step then anybody other tube combination. I think i'm about to slide into the depths of tube rolling! Well cheaper than new amps/cans!

 Again thanks for all your help !


----------



## Zodduska

I received a pair of Tung-Sol 5654 a couple weeks back and they sound great with the Svets, they have a very nice and full sound.. 

 Now I can't decide what I like better, to me the LM403B sounds more magical and adds its own atmosphere to the music but the TS 5654 sounds more realistic.. oh well, glad I have both.


----------



## wsz0304

Now is 3322


----------



## wsz0304




----------



## wsz0304




----------



## spookygonk

Not sure I like the on/off switch placement or the fact the shorter tubes are hidden at the back. Also with the two dials, does this mean it's dual-mono or is one an input selector?


----------



## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Zodduska* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received a pair of Tung-Sol 5654 a couple weeks back and they sound great with the Svets, they have a very nice and full sound.. 

 Now I can't decide what I like better, to me the LM403B sounds more magical and adds its own atmosphere to the music but the TS 5654 sounds more realistic.. oh well, glad I have both. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've got my pair of Tungsol couple months ago (mine is 6AK5W) and paired it with the Svets. Within 1 hour of listening, I know that I prefer it to M8100, as Tungsol gives me more bass and fuller vocal. However, after comparing it with LM403B, my choice is still LM. IMO, with my setup, LM produces less, yet better quality bass, as Tungsol's bass is too much and a bit bloated for me, whilst LM produces tight and a bit deeper bass.

 By the way, I've just got Herbie Tube Damper today and found that it helps make this amp sound even better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Initially, I hesitated to try as I didn't have any Microphonic issue (my amp was dead silence without the hum whatsoever), but after reading many positive results, I decided to order 2 pairs of Ultrasonic 7 and 2 pairs of Ultrasonic 9 to see if they're really that good.

 After the installation, I must say, WOW!
 Bass is tighter with a bit more impact. Vocal is fuller. And I can no longer hear any noise when I tap casing of the amp.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *spookygonk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure I like the on/off switch placement or the fact the shorter tubes are hidden at the back. Also with the two dials, does this mean it's dual-mono or is one an input selector?_

 

One POT for each channel - like the DV337.

 I assume that means its dual-mono.


----------



## crumplertm

Just gotten this great amp, I observed some thing and would like to share with the users here.

 Listen to the amp when you off the amp, there will be a faint "thingingly" sound. Sounds like the tube cooling down. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Im not sure if it has been discussed before, but thought i just share it here


----------



## omegaman

Yeah, thats normal. I always turn the volume to zero before I turn mine off ( or on ). Just to be on the safe side.


----------



## Skylab

That is indeed just the sound tubes make when cooling - they all do that.


----------



## shampoosuicide

Anyone have any Ericsson 403B / Svetlana 6S19P tubes to spare?

 In particular the 403B. I've searched very hard, and they're pretty rare. I came up with 2-3 sources, but they're around $20 per tube.

 I'm located in Singapore. Would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## crumplertm

Hey shampoosuicide I am from Singapore too, do you have spare Mullard Cv4010 to sell?


----------



## hawkhead

I have both Svets and CV4010 which I would sell at cost

 If you were both willing to split postage I could see this working !


----------



## omegaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shampoosuicide* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have any Ericsson 403B / Svetlana 6S19P tubes to spare?

 In particular the 403B. I've searched very hard, and they're pretty rare. I came up with 2-3 sources, but they're around $20 per tube.

 I'm located in Singapore. Would be greatly appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Try here, great prices. They have them in stock. Not sure on the postage to Singapore, but to Spain I remember they were very reasonable.

 In my opinion the LM Ericson are one of the best tubes for the 332, Especially when teamed up with the Svets.


----------



## BigTony

Good find, these are the only ones i've not tried! New Year, new valve box, cheaper than the cigars that it was once used for!


----------



## shampoosuicide

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *omegaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try here, great prices. They have them in stock. Not sure on the postage to Singapore, but to Spain I remember they were very reasonable.

 In my opinion the LM Ericson are one of the best tubes for the 332, Especially when teamed up with the Svets._

 

Thanks for the link omegaman


----------



## jc9394

Anyone have the 3322 yet? Wondering how it compare to 332 and 336, maybe even the Woo 3/6.


----------



## spookygonk

Godkin has. Have a look here


----------



## runnin17

Did the darkvoice amps recently jump up in price?


----------



## Godkin

Yes, they certainly did, and the current exchange rates, at least in the UK, doesn't make the situation any better: I paid £200 for my 332 and presently the 3322 costs £325 on E-Bay. If you buy direct from DARKVOICE the price drops to £275. But you're right substantially more expensive.


----------



## jc9394

How can you order directly from Darkvoice? Do you mean a reseller from China?


----------



## Godkin

No. DARKVOICE market their amps through a website called BOYIER.COM. But don't try to buy through that site, it's useless. If interested, e-mail the following address: zhoulin81@163.com, which is incidently one of the e-mail addresses from DARKVOICE themselves.


----------



## shampoosuicide

I've had my DV for 2.5 months now, and yesterday something strange occurred - the bass-heavy sound on my HD595 suddenly disappeared.

 The amp has gone through at least 500 hours of burn-in before this. With every tube combination (Uly 6S19P-V/Mullard CV4010, Uly 6S19P-V/WE 403B, Svet 6S19P/LM Ericsson 403B), the bass has always been very powerful (which I did not particularly like). Note that every pair of tubes has had at least 100 hours of burn-in.

 The powerful bass has always been distinct to me, as the HD595 are themselves quite bass anemic. MaLoS also pointed out the powerful bass on his HD595 when he amped it when the DV, and suggested it might be an impedance mismatch.

 Now the sound out of my DV with my HD595 sounds similar to that of my Zero and HD595. 

 Has my amp stopped working???!?


----------



## That dude

Hi guys,

 I'm totally confused after trying to read up about tube rolling the 332. Can someone give me a crash course on:

 1st: What tubes are used in the 332?
 2nd: What tubes should I use to reduce sibilance?
 3rd: Where can I go to learn more about tubes in general?
 Last: Where can I get the recommended tubes?

 Now if some kind soul can give me a hand, I'll be really really really grateful. I'm tired of cringing every time the singer comes in with a "SSSS".

 Thanks!


----------



## That dude

bump!


----------



## Koolpsych

The Darkvoice 332 is a bit older, but reading through this forum and Godkin's review of the darkvoice 3322 you can find both the type of tube, and tube recommendations. Hope this helps


----------



## dhammavijaya

Here' some notes I took a while ago.

 "6J1 x 2
 6C19 x 2
 The MULLARD M8100s are very good valves. If you can't get your hands on another pair, look for other members of the same tube family - the CV4010 and EF95. The CV4010 is the better of the two - "CV" stands for Common Valve, a British military system of classification - and is basically the same as the M8100 only in military guise. Also experiment with the US tubes: 5654/6AK5Ws from the likes of RCA, TUNG-SOL and SYLVANIA, or the 403As or 403Bs from WESTERN ELECTRIC; the latter is especially good.
 Ericsson 403Bs/5591s

 If you like that "liquidity" to your sound, the best choices would be something like the SVETLANA 6S19Ps with the MULLARD EF95s or the better spec M8100s and CV4010s. The TUNG-SOL 6AK5Ws are also a great sounding tube as are the RAYTHEON CK5654s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am using same combo of tube as U: WE 403Bs and the SVETLANA 6S19P with HD650...like it so much. Now searching for LM Erricson 403B as a forumer said is more superior."


----------



## That dude

^I've followed your recommendation and got myself a pair of SVETLANA 6S19Ps and LM Erricson 403B. However, after switching to them there is a audible hum when nothing is playing and during quiet bits. The volume of the hum does not change when I turn up the volume. I still use the original "spring dampers". Is this normal? How can I get rid of it.


----------



## Gradofan2

And... if you want an open, airy, detailed sound with the rich bass and mids of the M8100s, try the Ulynovsks (6C19 equivalents). I think that combo was my favorite. 

 Though the Svetlanas with the M8100s or Tung-Sols were great also.


----------



## mchang

I have not tried the headphones you have listed, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.

 When I first got my DV332 (now sold), I installed NOS Svets and WE403Bs. I had the same hum that you described in my HD650s. Drove me crazy.

 I tried (not in order):
 - isolating my amp from the DAC and Airport Express
 - putting foil under the amp as it rested above the other components (trying to minimize any RF interference)
 - cheater (3-prong to 2-prong) plug
 - GENTLY (!!!) pulling the pins out a bit on the tubes with some needle-nose pliers
 - GENTLY (!!!) cleaning the prongs with a small piece of steel wool
 - with and without the stock tube covers
 - Herbie's tube dampers

 Eventually, I swapped two new sets of Svets (I ordered a bunch) and new WE403Bs (ordered new set from a different vendor). After installing the four new tubes, adding the Herbies and cheater plug, and burning in for a day, there was blessed silence.

 I could have taken the time to plug back in the old tubes one at a time to determine which was the culprit. I could have removed the dampers and/or plug, to check as well. But when I achieved silence, I forgot all about the scientific method and never altered the setup again (until I sold it recently).

 I would suggest troubleshooting in this order:
 1- burn in 24 hours or more
 2- cheater plug
 3- GENTLY (!!!) flaring out the prongs a bit
 4- new tubes
 5- dampers

 Good luck!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *That dude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^I've followed your recommendation and got myself a pair of SVETLANA 6S19Ps and LM Erricson 403B. However, after switching to them there is a audible hum when nothing is playing of during quiet bits. The volume of the hum does not change when I turn up the volume. I still use the original "spring dampers". Is this normal? How can I get rid of it._


----------



## That dude

^Thanks. I'll try burning them in first.


----------



## nor_spoon

I remember my Ericsson 403B's needed some time before the hum went away. Also, you might want to check how they sit in the sockets. I had to have one of my tubes in one particular position because of the sockets used on the 332. 

 The LM Ericssons are nice tubes =)


----------



## That dude

Ok. I'm definitely going to hunt for more tubes. My darkvoice finally sounds like a proper tube amp. Lush and non-fatiguing while without placing the vocals behind a veil. But it's not doing and favors for my predominately muddy speakers. I've got to start tweaking again.

 After 8 straight hours of on time, the hum seems to be gone but I'm not sure what will happen after it cools down.

 Thanks to everyone that helped!


----------



## That dude

Actually, upon closer listening, the hum is still present but it's so soft I wouldn't have noticed it if I didn't pay attention. Still, I'm worried if it's a faulty tube(s) that is causing the problem. Will faulty tubes spoil the amp?


----------



## [benz]

Where did you guys get Svets tube from? Russia/Ukraine? How long did it take?
 I'm in Australia and a month ago I bought pair of Svets from Ukraine seller, they are yet to land on my DV332 until today.

 Seller has excellent feedback, so I suppose Ukraine post office sucks. Is that correct?

 Cheers.


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *[benz]* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you guys get Svets tube from? Russia/Ukraine? How long did it take?
 I'm in Australia and a month ago I bought pair of Svets from Ukraine seller, they are yet to land on my DV332 until today.

 Seller has excellent feedback, so I suppose Ukraine post office sucks. Is that correct?

 Cheers._

 

Yes... 

 It took about 3 weeks to the USA, as I recall.

 I think I've purchased from 2-3 vendors there - without any issues. 

 But... a month sounds a bit long. 

 I guess I'd email the seller and find out when he shipped them, and if they had any tracking number.


----------



## spookygonk

Gah, I'm going to have to get my 332 out of storage and actually listen to it. Still in the midst of house decorating and reading through these threads has made me long for some tubey goodness again (plus, it will stop me pointlessly longing for a 3322!).
 Bought mine off a UK seller on these very forums. Upgrade-itis is rife, nay, a pandemic within the head-fi community.


----------



## [benz]

Hello, I've been using my DV332 for about 7 months without any problem. Today I noticed something wrong, the L-R channels are imbalance, the sound is slightly leaned to the left side which makes the right side feels a bit 'empty'.

 I've changed all tubes, tried different ICs, sources but same result. Has anyone here ever experience such problem? Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

 Cheers.

 EDIT: It's not my headphone either.


----------



## setamp

Has anyone modded their 332 yet? If so, what parts did you decide to use? 
 Is there a power cable that works well with this unit? Thanks.


----------



## Godkin

No one has modded the 332 yet as far as I know. Some have modded the 336, however, which may give you some clues: upgrading output caps, power resistors, volume pot etc.


----------



## cravenz

Hey, how does this amp stack up against it's competitors like the woo audio and little dot for example? And if it really was worth its price?


----------



## cravenz

Mmmm...anyone with any input on this? to be specific, the WA6 and the MKIII =)


----------



## Godkin

The 332 is up there with the best in its price range. Which one you prefer is down to your individual needs and listening requirements: what headphones you have, for instance, or what particular type of sound you like. 

 The WOO AUDIO 6 is above the price range of the 332. However, GRADOFAN who has owned a 332 and now owns a maxed out WOO AUDIO 6 says it gives you 95% of the sound quality at a fraction of the price. Whether you think the extra cash is worth the extra 5% only you can decide.


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 332 is up there with the best in its price range. Which one you prefer is down to your individual needs and listening requirements: what headphones you have, for instance, or what particular type of sound you like. 

 The WOO AUDIO 6 is above the price range of the 332. However, GRADOFAN who has owned a 332 and now owns a maxed out WOO AUDIO 6 says it gives you 95% of the sound quality at a fraction of the price. Whether you think the extra cash is worth the extra 5% only you can decide._

 

I'm more or less gonna be trying to power the K701/2s out of the rig. I've read up a fair bit but there seems to be so much divided opinion, I really don't have a clue. And if I decide on the DV 332, it's now no longer in production. That and I'm going to have to learn about tubes haha..

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tub...04/index2.html
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/akg...39/index6.html

 Those were the topics I had a quick skim through where the DV was highlighted along with the K70x. Any input based on your experience would be useful =) thanks btw.

 Oh..and I was wondering how it would compare with the EF-1 based on the below review, but it is quite hard to get a hold of at the moment.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/ef1...pdated-428108/


----------



## Godkin

Traditional wisdom says that the DV 332 is better with high impedance headphones like the HD650s and DT880s. However, some owners claim that the 332 sounds great with the lower impedance K701s. That's were individual experience is superior to any generalisations I can make.

 The 332 is out of production, yes. But there's its successor, the 3322, and you could buy second hand. An even more exciting option is that one of DV engineers has went out on his own and now produces an amp, rebadged LA FIGARO, which is almost idential to the 332: comestically it has been revised slightly and some of the components have been upgraded, better quality capacitors, volume pot, NEUTRIK headphone socket, etc.


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Traditional wisdom says that the DV 332 is better with high impedance headphones like the HD650s and DT880s. However, some owners claim that the 332 sounds great with the lower impedance K701s. That's were individual experience is superior to any generalisations I can make.

 The 332 is out of production, yes. But there's its successor, the 3322, and you could buy second hand. An even more exciting option is that one of DV engineers has went out on his own and now produces an amp, rebadged LA FIGARO, which is almost idential to the 332: comestically it has been revised slightly and some of the components have been upgraded, better quality capacitors, volume pot, NEUTRIK headphone socket, etc._

 

yeah that was what I was reading as well which has made me wonder whether it will be a good match.

 where will I find the LA Figaro? I did a google and for the life of me, I didn't get much matches at all. Only problem is, I kinda have a budget lol.


----------



## dreamwhisper

remember to budget for tubes as well,
 they can end up being the price of the amp

 the beauty with woo audio gear is that he provides you with some ideas for tube upgrades so that you don't have to read entire tube rolling threads or lurk e-bay everday


----------



## cravenz

yeah I've thought about that as well. shrugs. i really would like the ef-1, but no one seems to be selling it overseas apart from CONUS and I think I can get a hold of the DV 332. I'm just trying to figure out if it will power it well and would be better than the ef-1 or if I should just hold out and wait.


----------



## dreamwhisper

IMO the price-to-performance ratio of hybrids is better than tube amps, not sure about with the K701's though
 if you're looking for more info about hybrids search for posts by sacd_lover, he's owned quite a few

 with tube amps, some will sound more solid state, other ones will sound more euphonic.
 know which kind you are looking for, by reading reviews or by buying/selling 
 (used gear is easier on the wallet)


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dreamwhisper* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the price-to-performance ratio of hybrids is better than tube amps, not sure about with the K701's though
 if you're looking for more info about hybrids search for posts by sacd_lover, he's owned quite a few

 with tube amps, some will sound more solid state, other ones will sound more euphonic.
 know which kind you are looking for, by reading reviews or by buying/selling 
 (used gear is easier on the wallet)_

 

thanks. yeah I'm trying to, but there are so many and then they get kinda technical and I get lost. lol. That and I'm kinda tired trudging through plus my last exam paper will be tomorrow then I'm flying off. heh.


----------



## Godkin

The designer at LA FIGARO is in contact with me at the DARKVOICE 3322 thread. Go to the penultimate page and you'll find the postings by him. Then maybe you could PM him and sort things out.

 Tubes for the 332 are not very expensive: in fact they're very reasonable. A pair of good M8100s or 6AK5Ws might range from around £10-20. the 6S19Ps can be bought in bulk from good Russian sellers: around £20 for 8.


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The designer at LA FIGARO is in contact with me at the DARKVOICE 3322 thread. Go to the penultimate page and you'll find the postings by him. Then maybe you could PM him and sort things out.

 Tubes for the 332 are not very expensive: in fact they're very reasonable. A pair of good M8100s or 6AK5Ws might range from around £10-20. the 6S19Ps can be bought in bulk from good Russian sellers: around £20 for 8._

 

I'm guessing it's yuking09? thanks for the help btw


----------



## Godkin

Yes, he's just posted new pics of his range of LA FIGARO amps. PM him and see what he can do? A review would be nice.


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, he's just posted new pics of his range of LA FIGARO amps. PM him and see what he can do? A review would be nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Heh. Yeah I have. I do like the design of the DV 3322 and I'd be interested to see the improvements made. Currently I don't have a high budget though which is why I had been hoping to get the EF1 second hand, but no one seems to want to ship it overseas, but I might have an option on the DV 332. If the LA FIGARO ones ain't too high (for me that is), then I could look into it.

 I'd really like to be able to afford a few setups someday so that I get a better understanding of all the audiophile terms and be able to give better input when people ask for advice. If only I wasn't a student. lol


----------



## Godkin

Money's a bitch, isn't it! It's the audio bug, once you've caught it you're lost. I've been at it for years now and there's always something you'd chop you left leg off for!

 I was a student many, many years ago. I saved or got my parents to buy me stuff for birthdays and x-mas. Also companies releasing new equipment often sell samples at a reduced price. I bought a sample AUDIOTAILOR HM-1 for review for a substantially reduced price. That reminds me, have you thought about the AUDIOTAILOR JADE - great little amp!


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Money's a bitch, isn't it! It's the audio bug, once you've caught it you're lost. I've been at it for years now and there's always something you'd chop you left leg off for!

 I was a student many, many years ago. I saved or got my parents to buy me stuff for birthdays and x-mas. Also companies releasing new equipment often sell samples at a reduced price. I bought a sample AUDIOTAILOR HM-1 for review for a substantially reduced price. That reminds me, have you thought about the AUDIOTAILOR JADE - great little amp!_

 

Haha...yeah it is and I've stopped working now, so it's really hard. My parents don't exactly buy me anything actually. lol. My mother doesn't really believe in celebrating birthdays so errr...yeah. The first 'present' I ever got was last year. haha...I'm only halfway through my course and I have another 3 years to go. Shrugs. I really really love music, but I don't have the time to go as in depth as everyone else though I wish I had the intellect and money to do it! 

 Just had a look at the Jade, interesting proposition that and Skylab gave it a decent review as well from my quick skim through. I might have a look at it. $300 + shipping though and it weighs a fair bit. lol. Was hoping not to overstep $250, let alone $300. Damn this is another expensive hobby! And I wanted to pick up photography at some point too.


----------



## Godkin

Don't get me started on photography - love it! Spent most of the summer - or what passes for summer where I live - clambering through fields, taking photographs for a book I'm writing. Loved every minute of it, but wrecked a FUJI S9500 in the process. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The JADE is a great little amp, and Joseph at AUDIOTAILOR is great to deal with. Don't want ot confuse the matter but have you thought of the SHANLING PH300?

SHANLING PH300 TUBE PREAMP HEADPHONE AMPIFIER FOR DAC on eBay (end time 11-Nov-09 17:32:18 GMT)


----------



## cravenz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't get me started on photography - love it! Spent most of the summer - or what passes for summer where I live - clambering through fields, taking photographs for a book I'm writing. Loved every minute of it, but wrecked a FUJI S9500 in the process. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The JADE is a great little amp, and Joseph at AUDIOTAILOR is great to deal with. Don't want ot confuse the matter but have you thought of the SHANLING PH300?

SHANLING PH300 TUBE PREAMP HEADPHONE AMPIFIER FOR DAC on eBay (end time 11-Nov-09 17:32:18 GMT)_

 

Heh. My brother is a photographer. I just don't have the cash to splash or I would venture into it as well. heh. I was told to look in the direction of the shanling ph100 at one point as well. heh. geez. no idea where to head towards now.


----------



## dreamwhisper

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cravenz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Heh. My brother is a photographer. I just don't have the cash to splash or I would venture into it as well. heh. I was told to look in the direction of the shanling ph100 at one point as well. heh. geez. no idea where to head towards now._

 

you already have a really nice portable rig

 If I were you I'd save up for something really really nice
 though I know nothing of this shanling you speak


----------



## papala

any idea?


----------



## deltaspirit

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *papala* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any idea?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Is that with shipping?

 It can also be bought from here, Welcome to Audiophilechina


----------



## Godkin

$625 sounds a bit steep to me, especially if you have to pay shipping as well. The new model 337 can be bought for around $560 (plus shipping of course) but it has all the upgraded components: VISHAY output caps, DALE/VISHAY resistors, etc.


----------



## brokensound

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cravenz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm more or less gonna be trying to power the K701/2s out of the rig. I've read up a fair bit but there seems to be so much divided opinion, I really don't have a clue. And if I decide on the DV 332, it's now no longer in production. That and I'm going to have to learn about tubes haha..

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/tub...04/index2.html
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/akg...39/index6.html

 Those were the topics I had a quick skim through where the DV was highlighted along with the K70x. Any input based on your experience would be useful =) thanks btw.

 Oh..and I was wondering how it would compare with the EF-1 based on the below review, but it is quite hard to get a hold of at the moment.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/ef1...pdated-428108/_

 

I've tried the Dark Voice 332 w/ the HD600, HD650, and K701. I personally believe they sound fantastic. As for my Grado HF2, not so much so. 

 _________________

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f43/fs-omz-2-5a-458677/


----------



## Ozer

I have some questions about tubes with La Figaro 332C... I know this is a Darkvoice thread, but DV332 and La Figaro 332C are almost the same and they use the same types of tubes.... Plus there's not many owning a 332C, 'cause they started selling them very recently...

 I haven't bought the 332C yet... I will get two pairs of tubes with the amp, (not the stock ones..). I will get one pair of "NOS Svetlana 6S19-V" power tubes (I think they will be good), and then I get one pair of "NOS Philips ECG 5654W" driver tubes... 

 Are the driver tubes good ? And I know different tubes are good at different types of music and stuff... So, are these good if you listen to rock music, like for example music from the band "Kings Of Leon" ? Or should I get others for that ? I don't like it when the highs are harsh...

 It would be great if you could link to where I can buy the tubes you advice about (if you do..). It would be great if it was in Europe (even better in Sweden), but it doesn't have to...


----------



## Nachkebia

Updated version is called Darkvoice 3322 

2009 Brand New Version Darkvoice 3322 Headphone Amp - eBay (item 180443497143 end time Jan-08-10 04:50:19 PST)


----------



## Ozer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nachkebia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Updated version is called Darkvoice 3322 

2009 Brand New Version Darkvoice 3322 Headphone Amp - eBay (item 180443497143 end time Jan-08-10 04:50:19 PST)_

 

I don't know if you were quoting my post.... I don't know if I'm totally right, but I think the two persons owning Darkvoice split up and one of them started the company La Figaro... La Figaro has just started selling their amps. Their amps are basically upgrades form the Darkvoice amps... You can find the 332C on this site BOYIER, on this site you can also find La Figaro 332S, an upgraded DV3322 and La Figaro 336C, an upgraded DV336

Picture of La Figaro 332C


----------



## Godkin

Yes, Ozer, those will be good tubes for rock etc. The SVETLANAs are slightly warmer than the ULYANOVSK made 6S19P-B, and are a great tube, my personal favourite; they should combine well with the PHILIPs, which are probably the same tube as the MULLARD M8100 (PHILIPS owned MULLARD so the US 5654W tube designation equates to the European M8100). If I am right, it will be a charactistically tube sound: warmish, organic, open, with a good sold bottom end. Nice.

 If you are looking for something more on the neutral side, you could either try the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs with the PHILIPS 5654W or change the signal tube (which changes the sound more) to something like an RCA 6AK5W or a WESTERN ELECTRIC 403B. Top of the range would be the Swedish ERICSSON LM403B.


----------



## Nachkebia

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ozer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't know if you were quoting my post.... I don't know if I'm totally right, but I think the two persons owning Darkvoice split up and one of them started the company La Figaro... La Figaro has just started selling their amps. Their amps are basically upgrades form the Darkvoice amps... You can find the 332C on this site BOYIER, on this site you can also find La Figaro 332S, an upgraded DV3322 and La Figaro 336C, an upgraded DV336

Picture of La Figaro 332C_

 

Thanks for that, helped alot figuring out which version is what


----------



## Ozer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, Ozer, those will be good tubes for rock etc. The SVETLANAs are slightly warmer than the ULYANOVSK made 6S19P-B, and are a great tube, my personal favourite; they should combine well with the PHILIPs, which are probably the same tube as the MULLARD M8100 (PHILIPS owned MULLARD so the US 5654W tube designation equates to the European M8100). If I am right, it will be a charactistically tube sound: warmish, organic, open, with a good sold bottom end. Nice.

 If you are looking for something more on the neutral side, you could either try the ULYANOVSK 6S19P-Bs with the PHILIPS 5654W or change the signal tube (which changes the sound more) to something like an RCA 6AK5W or a WESTERN ELECTRIC 403B. Top of the range would be the Swedish ERICSSON LM403B._

 

Thanks Godkin !! That was good to hear.... I really like the price of the tubes for this amp... If I want different sound, I can get it for like 10 bucks... About the neutral tubes you mention... As I'm new to tubes I will first test with my tubes and if I don't like the warm sound I will test Ericsson LM403B... Just 'cause they are Swedish !!


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## Godkin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ozer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I don't like the warm sound I will test Ericsson LM403B... Just 'cause they are Swedish !! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

As Woodrow Wilson said, "Patriotism begins at home."


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## gbacic

how big is the Darkvoice 332? Will it fit on top of my Compass? Should I hack together a computer fan to keep it cool?

 I bought one from brokensound and can't wait to see what all the hubbub is about with this and the HD650's.


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## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_-- -- PHILIPs, which are probably the same tube as the MULLARD M8100 (PHILIPS owned MULLARD so the US 5654W tube designation equates to the European M8100)._

 

I'm not so sure about the 'probably' part because we are talking about Philips ECG. Philips bought the Sylvania tube business (among others) and called it Philips ECG. Philips ECG tubes are most likely US-made 'late Sylvanias'.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ERICSSON LM403B_

 

The company is LM Ericsson after its founder. LM is not part of the type designation.


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## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ozer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would be great if you could link to where I can buy the tubes you advice about (if you do..). It would be great if it was in Europe (even better in Sweden), but it doesn't have to..._

 

You might want to try these guys: http://www.radiotubeshop.com/. I haven't bought from them but they are in Sweden. As said before, 6S19P tubes are abundant on eBay from sources in ex-Soviet countries. By the way, the military version is called 6S19P-V or 6С19П-В in Cyrillic. 6S19P-B is a misnomer.


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## Godkin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm not so sure about the 'probably' part because we are talking about Philips ECG. Philips bought the Sylvania tube business (among others) and called it Philips ECG. Philips ECG tubes are most likely US-made 'late Sylvanias'.



 The company is LM Ericsson after its founder. LM is not part of the type designation._

 


 I stand corrected!!!:


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## magnetiq

hey guys, just wondering something;

 every now and again, the led light flickers, and if i'm listening to music at the time the sound cuts out for a second, like 

 anyone know why this is?


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## gbacic

I'm going to be an owner of one of these beauties in the next couple of days and I have questions:
 which sockets are for the power and which are for the signal tubes? do the power/signal tubes have to be paired (as in the same drive tubes or same input tubes, or can i mix and match)?
 and I always hear about tube maintenance, what is it?


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## Godkin

The larger tubes (6S19Ps) are the power tubes and the smaller ones (6N1s) the signal tubes.

 With the 332 it would be impossible to perfectly match the power and signal tubes. You could match them in that you could use Chinese or Russian tubes, but they would be different brands: the 6S19Ps would either be SVETLANA or ULYANOVSK and the signal tubes VOSKHOD.

 But to get the best out of the 332 you really have to use western signal tubes: EF95s, M8100s, CV4010s, 6AK5Ws, 5654s and 403Bs. You have no choice with the 6S19Ps, you either chose SVETLANA or ULYANOVSK, but there are many different makes of signal tube: MULLARD, RCA, SYLVANIA, GENERAL ELECTRIC, WESTERN ELECTRIC, RAYTHEON, etc.

 Matching pairs are not essential in an amp of this type. It's always good if you can get them, but I've used many pairs of unmatched tubes in the 332 and it was fine. Not much tube maintenance needed. Just plug in and play. If it's faulty, there's not much you can do. Just throw it in the bin. If the pins are "dirty" or corroded you can clean them, makes the tubes sound better.


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## gbacic

Awesome, I just don't want to try tube rolling with 2 different power tubes and have the amp destroy both of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 I've just realized what I've gotten myself into... uh oh.


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## Godkin

It's addictive, gbacic, very addictive!


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## PrTv

Wow!

 The thread was started more than 3 years ago and now it's still alive and kicking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm kinda surprised, since we know that tube rolling options of this amp is somewhat limited, comparing to DV336, and this model has been discontinued for quite some time.

 I still have the amp and it still sounds great! Actually, I tried to mate my HD650 with several other amps under 1,000$, but couldn't find one that can best this amp. IMO, this amp with Svetlana 6S19P (thanks Zodduska for giving me this one) and LM Ericsson 403B, sounds better (with HD650) than SPL Auditor that's twice its price.

 I have just bought a solid state amp (Burson HA160) which is also a great amp with plenty of drive, and actually beats DV332 when it comes to headstage and micro-detail. I initially planned to sell DV332, but every time when I decided to give it a last run before putting it back in the box, it just sounded so sweet that I regretted if it really had to go, so I ended up keeping both of them. Sometimes it doesn't require expansive sound stage and rich detail to appreciate the music.

 I now feed this amp with my recently bought DAC, Audio-gd 19MK3, which happens to have two sets of RCA outputs, that can feed both amps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Speaking about the DAC, when I put it in the chain (with Rotel RCD-06 as a transport), I come to realize how good the amp actually is. I'm also surprised at how inferior my CDP is, comparing to this Chinese-made DAC.

 Well, my point is, this amp has a lot of potential and can stand against many amps that's twice (or thrice) its price, provided your source is good enough and you mate it with right headphones. My only complaint is the (small) number of headphones that go well with it. 

 And hello, Godkin, you're as helpful as usual


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## Godkin

Welcome back, PrTv. Good to hear you're still enjoying your 332.

 I sold my 332 a while back and now own its successor, the 3322. Same tubes, but a more radical design. I agree with you, the 332 isn't working at its best with low imepdance headphones, though I tried the 3322 with a pair of 32ohm SUPERLUX HD681s and it didn't sound bad at all.


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## PrTv

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Godkin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome back, PrTv. Good to hear you're still enjoying your 332.

 I sold my 332 a while back and now own its successor, the 3322. Same tubes, but a more radical design. I agree with you, the 332 isn't working at its best with low imepdance headphones, though I tried the 3322 with a pair of 32ohm SUPERLUX HD681s and it didn't sound bad at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

About the synergy with low impedance headphones, my friend modified his DV332 by replacing most of its component inside with audio-grade parts, and replacing the stock IEC socket with one from Furutec. 

 At the end the amp sounded a lot better and to my surprise, the synergy with ATH W5K significantly improved. My friend even preferred this amp to the HA5000 (which was designed originally by ATH to use with its W5K headphones).

 About the amp's operating temperature, do you guys let it run hot?

 I know that vacuum tube runs hot, but what worries me about this amp is the fact that the components inside aren't so good. I don't know how much longer they can survive if the internal temperature is as high as 70-80C (I don't know if it'll be that hot but here in Thailand in summer the room temp can go as high as 33C). So I always have a big fan blown at the case to keep it cool, but the noise is so annoying.


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## gbacic

FULL EDIT:
 I'm stupid and paranoid and I plugged it into line in instead of DAC out on my Compass...


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## Mullet

Anyone have a pair of Svetlanas they want to sell or trade. I'm getting 4 ulys and I decided I would like to try the Svets first if possible. Still haven't received my 332c.


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## psej71

Hi all

 I've got a chance of getting this amp with some upgraded tubes - I think Ericsson 403B's and M8100's.

 This is my first adventure into headphone amps as at the moment I am running my AKG K702's through my Cyrus preamp preXvs. After reading through this thread I am really enthused about this amp and I am sure it will give me better sound than my pre amp.

 Can I ask if you think this amp will be able to drive my 702's effectively. I'm a newbie and not sure about all this ohms and stuff (sorry!). 

 Cheers all

 Paul

 P.S. Forgot to say I'm in the UK and so will the voltage be an issue?


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## Mullet

I don't think you have to worry man. There are quite a few people in this thread along with the other Darkvoice related threads that have the AKG701s and are quite happy with how they play with these amps. Do a search in the thread and you'll find quite a few results.


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## cws5

Hi All,

 Just received my DV332 yesterday. Been listening non-stop. 

 TUBES 
 Power: Svetlana 6c19n-b; Ulyanov 6c19n; Ulyanov 6c19n-b.
 Preamp: CV4010, Ericsson 403B.

 THOUGHTS SO FAR
 The DV332 is clearly an upgrade from my ASL MkII DT/OTL. More controlled bass. Better resolution of detail. And the better resolution allows the coming through of those sound signals that make for a deeper and wider soundstage. Some on Head-fi have commented on the relative fatigue induced by the treble extension of the DV332, but that has not been my experience; on the contrary, the amp is less fatiguing than the ASL, while the top end nevertheless manages to not sound rolled-off. That is, to achieve the same level of upper-end realism on the ASL, I'd have to choose tubes that tended to brighten the sound too much, leading to fatigue. But with the DV332, the upper-end is there, unveiled, but without the harshness the ASL suffered when fitted with tubes that let the upper-end through.

 CAVEATS
 Your experiences with the DV332 might differ from mine. If that's so, the difference might be due to our using different sources or listening to different types of music. I'm running lossless FLAC, through an MHDT Constantine non-oversampling DAC, with solid silver interconnects, listening almost exclusively to sonically complex orchestral music or chamber music.

 So that's it for now. I'd be interested in thoughts any of you DV332 owners have about your experiences with the amp not already mentioned somewhere in this thread.


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## spookygonk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *psej71* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can I ask if you think this amp will be able to drive my 702's effectively. I'm a newbie and not sure about all this ohms and stuff (sorry!)._

 

I recently got a pair of K701s and they sound great with my DV332, so you don't have to worry.


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## cws5

With more days of listening, I can now confirm, and admit, that I was wrong in my earlier post: contrary to what I had claimed, the DV332 is indeed just as bright as some have suggested.


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## setamp

It is interesting that some consider this amp to be bright.  I find it to extremely smooth and I am VERY sensitive to brightness/harshness of any kind.  I am using a Music Hall Maverick>MAC Palladium Cables>DV332 (sylvania 6ak5w)>DT990/600 and the results are warm and sweet.


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## cws5

After opening up the amp and making a sketch of the circuit, it's clear what is the main cause of the brightness some have found: the output coupling cap is grossly undervalued. It's 30uf. Most OTL amps come stock with at least a 100uf valued cap, though for the 300ohm HD600s so many use will be better served by a 220uf cap. So a common mod is to up that standard 100uf value. 
   
  With the 30uf cap and a pair of HD600s, that puts the corner frequency for the DV332 at over 17Hz. What you want is a corner frequency of about 2Hz, since phase shift is known to occur at up to about 10x the corner frequency, which would be 170Hz. It's no wonder that the mid-bass is anemic. With the mid-bass response anemic, for types of music with wide dynamic fluctuation (like orchestral), to hear the heart of the music (the midrange) in low volume passages, the amp's volume must be set high enough, but that then puts the more easily produced high frequencies into ear-bleed territory in the loud passages.
   
  The first mod any DV332 owner not happy with the unit's sound ought to do is to replace that cap. I've now got the stock cap paralleled with a 220uf electrolytic. The sound is much, much improved. It's not the best solution -- the cap should outright be replaced to avoid the problems created by paralleling different types of caps of such similar value. Most reasonable here would be a 220uf electrolytic bypassed with a small-value film cap.
   
  Why does the amp come stock with the wrong cap? Probably due to cost and pricing limitations, given the designer's desire to use a film rather than electrolytic cap. The stock cap is an SCR MKP cap. That is, it's a Solen film cap, which is of course a nice cap to use for audio signal applications. Retail they cost about $8US each. Even just a 100uf MKP cap can run 3 to 4 times that much money, not to speak of what a 220uf would cost. (And the 220uf wouldn't even fit in the chassis.) Adding that cost would significantly cut into what is already probably a pretty small profit margin, or would increase the retail price too much, making the DV amps much less appealing to the producers' target market.
   
  The moral here is that an electrolytic of the proper value is a much better choice than a film cap of a horribly incorrect value. Even the folks at Bottlehead, who sure know what they're doing, supply their Crack OTL kit with an electrolytic for that output coupling cap.


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## setamp

Nice detective work!


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## dhammavijaya

Anyone know if the HiFiMAN HE-5LE would go well with the 332?


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## agnostic1er

Hello,
  
 I just bought a used Senn HD 800. My current amp is a top notch solid state DIY one. I'm happy with this combo, very resolving and neutral, seems the HD800 gives me exactly what it's "technically" capable of with a well engeniered SS amp.
 However I have the opportunity to buy a DV THA332 for a very good price and ask myself if it could be worth in terms of listening results vs this SS amp. Never tried tubes haed amp but they catch my curiosity, tube rolling, caps tweaking...
 So what do you think about this idea?
 Thanks.


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## archsam

Having 'rediscovered' this thread, I thought it might be fun to contribute to this 'ancient' post after so many years 

I bought the Darkvoice 332 way back in 2007, when I was just settling in the UK and was strapped for cash. The DV amp was a pretty expensive purchase at the time, and it was one of the first real 'hifi' gear I bought new. I enjoyed many hours listening to this amp, paired first with a Sennheiser HD 595, then later with my AKG K702 (I still have both cans). Those were the days when the HD650 was the summit of headphones at under £300 and I couldn't afford them at the time! Anyway, I really enjoyed what was then the start of my audio journey. I used to follow this tread, and at the advice of many posters I played with tube rolling and had a great time doing that.

Time past, and I moved on from the Darkvoice amp. I packed it up and it stayed in the shed for many many years. Then yesterday when I was reorganising my AV shelf I realized there is now a free spot I can place the Darkvoice amp. So, what the heck, I went and dig up the amp from the shed. The heavy duty packaging did a great job protecting the unit, and when I placed it on my shelf it is looking pristine, not a scratch on the shiny black casing.

My audio journey has clearly moved on since my younger days back in 2007. I just purchased a Matrix Audio Element X DAC / streamer, a state of the art source component that is a far cry from the days when I bought cheap second hand gears from ebay. I stream FLAC and DSF files from my home NAS to the the Element X via wifi, and playback is either through my Harbeth P3esr speakers, or my current favourite headphones the Focal Clear. All I am trying to say is that the sound quality I am now accustom to is well past my 2007 setup.

So I hooked up the Darkvoice to my Element X via RCA, and plugged in my Focal Clear, just to see what the sound is like. I have little expectations, the DAC / headphone combo cost well over 10x the price of the Darkvoice. On top of that, the Element X's headphone amps are excellent with more detail and 3D sound stage than what I have experienced so far in my set up. Besides, the Darkvoice is OLD! Well, just for fun, let's see how it goes.

What I heard really surprised me. The Darkvoice delivered a fantastic clear sound, with lots of detail and a smooth mid that puts weight behind the vocals. The bass is a little loose compared to my other amps (I am more used to solid state amps inside the Element X / my old Benchmark DAC1, even the headphone out from my Yamaha A-S3000 is really good) but my God, they go deep, and with more weight and power than all my other headphone outputs can manage. It doesn't present a holographic sound stage (definitely shallower than what I'm now used to) but it does not distract from the fantastic overall presentation I'm hearing.

The sound is so good I've been listening to this amp non stop since I hooked it up yesterday!

In this world where we are always chasing the latest and greatest 'next big thing', it's nice to rediscover where we are is not necessary better than where we came from. My Darkvoice amp will now (re)occupy a permanent spot in my living room.


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