# Replace Kimber USB with a commercially manufactured cable?



## Hansen

Hello,

 Let me know what you think about this one. I contacted a DAC manufacturer about a problem(problem is a high pitch noise from the speakers everytime I start the computer with the DAC connected. This is apparently solved by having a self-powered HUB between the computer and DAC-usb cable...anywho) and I got this advice on improving the sound:

_"Replace the Kimber USB with a pair of commercially manufactured cables. Ones that I would recommend are any that are built to USB 2.0 specifications, and as short as is practical for your installation.

 This will give markedly better performance over the Kimber cable you have been using."_

 What do the audiophiles here say? Should I try to return the oh-so very recommended Kimber cable with another cheap one as suggested?

 EDIT: I was suggested to buy a Belkin Gold Series Hi-Speed USB 2.0 Cable, 6 feet.


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## jilgiljongiljing

Belkin Gold USB 2.0 cable is great, I didnt find any difference between USB cables. The Beklin one offers good build quality and flexibility at the price, I wouldnt bother with anything higher. If you can get money back on the Kimber, save it for something else.


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## waterlogic

Yes.

 Special USB cables are snake oil magic. Look nice, but do nothing ...


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## grawk

they do worse than nothing, they don't adhere to specifications, which causes problems.


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## jenneth

I had both cable for awhile, and to me, they sounded identical.


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## noris83

I also use the Belkin cable. Found it hard to justify spending 50-125 on a Kimber cable when so many people said the Belkin was comparable.


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they do worse than nothing, they don't adhere to specifications, which causes problems._

 

Have you any examples/proof of that?

 To the OP, was your problem actually a ground loop? You can get isolators which go between the DAC and amp here

Amazon.co.uk: ground loop isolator


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## krmathis

The Kimber USB cable is not commercially manufactured?


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## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krmathis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Kimber USB cable is not commercially manufactured?_

 

Tha'ts what I thought.

 A $5 Belkin Gold USB cable does the job just fine, anything more than that is a waste for me.


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## Hansen

Waw, thank you all for your answers. Apparently I made an uneducated choice when I purchased the kimber cable. I have now requested a RMA and already placed an order on the belkin.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Prog Rock Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To the OP, was your problem actually a ground loop? You can get isolators which go between the DAC and amp here

Amazon.co.uk: ground loop isolator_

 

Ground loop, hmm, I am not sure, because I don't know. (probably because I had to look up the term "ground loop"). However, the DAC is connected directly to my computer with the USB cable, and is also powered from the usb. The "noise" I am talking about, more like a whine, happens only when I start the computer and the speakers with the DAC connected(at the same time, when I wake up). There is no problem if I have the speakers connected directly to the computer without the DAC inbetween. The whine doesn't come right away. Most of the times it comes 1 minute after I have turn on the computer+speakers. The whine starts as a very high pitch sound and goes lower and lower in frequency until it stops after maybe 10 seconds, and then a few seconds later it starts from a low frequency and goes higher and higher until the frequency is so high that I cannot even hear it. That's is how I know it is gone, haha. Weird, yes. To solve this problem, I was advised to get a self-powered usb hub, DUB-H4 4-Port USB 2.0 Hub, to be specific. I have ordered it, so we shall see.


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## fzman

seems like if the Kimber and Belkin are indistinguishable, then the Kimber must meet spec. Nor is the Belkin $6 at any place I have checked.

 You may not think USB cables affect sonics, but please identify speculation about empirical matters as such, and if you have made listening tests or measurements, by all means describe those as well.


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## bcwang

I don't see how the kimber are worse than the belkin in any way. How is it expected that it would fix your problem to switch to the belkin.

 And where is there info that Kimber usb cables don't adhere to usb specifications?

 I've personally heard differences in USB cables which is why I'm now using a wireworld starlight. I've never tried the kimber ones though, and was interested in how the kimber AG usb one performs. There doesn't seem to be any reviews of it that I can find however, especially since the majority of people don't think USB cables make any difference.

 My opinion is that it's unlikely switching out your Kimber for a Belkin is going to fix your problem.


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## Hansen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bcwang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't see how the kimber are worse than the belkin in any way. How is it expected that it would fix your problem to switch to the belkin.

 And where is there info that Kimber usb cables don't adhere to usb specifications?

 I've personally heard differences in USB cables which is why I'm now using a wireworld starlight. I've never tried the kimber ones though, and was interested in how the kimber AG usb one performs. There doesn't seem to be any reviews of it that I can find however, especially since the majority of people don't think USB cables make any difference.

 My opinion is that it's unlikely switching out your Kimber for a Belkin is going to fix your problem._

 

Oh no, I do not expect that to fix my problem. I am hoping that the new self-powered usb hub will fix my problem. The thing about the kimber cable is simply that the manufacturer of my DAC told me that I should get rid of the kimber cable and get something else instead i.e. belkin, because that -- somehow -- should improve the sound. Also, Kimber is $50 and Belkin is $9. I save $41.


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## tim3320070

USB hubs definitely cause problems from what I have read. Go direct from computer to DAC always.


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## waterlogic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fzman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_seems like if the Kimber and Belkin are indistinguishable, then the Kimber must meet spec. Nor is the Belkin $6 at any place I have checked.

 You may not think USB cables affect sonics, but please identify speculation about empirical matters as such, and if you have made listening tests or measurements, by all means describe those as well._

 


 When I bought the Aqvox DAC the dealer borrowed me the Aqvox USB (170 Euro) and Aqvox coax cable (cca 190 Euro) etc for 2 weeks.

 I have to dissapoint you but appart from looking super-duper there is zero, niente, garkeine difference from a stock USB cable, same valid for the coax (as long as one uses a stock 75 Ohm one).

 The dealer said they are already burned-in, blah, blah, blah.

 Also, if whoever buys these "looker" cables - very hard to show them of - normally they are at the back i.e. not visible.


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## momomo6789

digital all sound the same they have to ..


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## tekdemon

lol, any cable that carries a digital signal-so long as it works-is fine. You can't get better audio quality when all the digital bits are already sent fine, any more than your mp3 downloads become magically better sounding if you download them over $9000/month internet instead of a $50 a month internet connection, lol.


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## jilgiljongiljing

DealsClick

 FREE Belkin F3U133-10 Gold Series Hi-Speed USB 2.0 Cable- 10 feet with 5 bucks shipping. Beat that!


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## JamesL

AmazonBasics 
 amazon's cables are pretty well built too


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## entrope

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tekdemon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, any cable that carries a digital signal-so long as it works-is fine. You can't get better audio quality when all the digital bits are already sent fine, any more than your mp3 downloads become magically better sounding if you download them over $9000/month internet instead of a $50 a month internet connection, lol._

 

Yeah. I used to spend quite a fair bit on cables (primarily because I'm an aesthetics nut more-so than anything really), and even I admit that upgrading digital cables for SQ is pretty daft.

 One of my servers averages over 1TB of traffic per day and my interface logs have never _ever_ showed any bit which required error correction due to transmission errors on the physical layer.

 So surely if my high-bandwidth mission-critical applications which are running on CAT-6 cables which are a buck a meter work perfectly fine, then my stock USB cable from my PC to my DAC should suffice.


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Prog Rock Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you any examples/proof of that?

 To the OP, was your problem actually a ground loop? You can get isolators which go between the DAC and amp here

Amazon.co.uk: ground loop isolator_

 

 I have been on holidays, hence the bump.

 Grawk, you are a moderator, you are supposed to hold a position of respect and responsibility, so please provide proof re Kimber or withdraw you comment.

 Hansen, ground loop is basically a problem with different electrical items not being grounded and there is interference between them. That in turn causes noise issues.


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## FraGGleR

If you are going to go inexpensive for a quality USB cable, you might as well go to the king's of inexpensive quality, Monoprice.com. Great build quality, USB 2.0 compliant, and super cheap: For only $0.93 each when QTY 50+ purchased - USB 2.0 A Male to B Male 28/24AWG Cable - (Gold Plated) - 6ft | USB 2.0 Cables - Regular Type

 I make my own for fun and aesthetics (and I haven't had any problems yet) for my audio setup, but I have been a Monoprice fan for years. I have a couple Belkin cables as well as a Canon and a Sony (came with cameras) and the Monoprice cables easily match if not exceed all of them.

 Oh, and the Kimber may or may not improve your sound quality, but they are commecially produced and shouldn't be the source of your problems.


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## Prog Rock Man

I am a fan of ThatCable who sell in the UK on ebay. I have pulled some of their stuff apart to show a friend who works for a company who make there own cables for non hifi purposes. He said the build and material quality was excellent.

 That will do me. 

 I have and had Kimber cables and there is no doubting their build and material quality as well. I preferred it to the terrible plastic phono plug, bell wire stuff that was available before ebay in particular, gave easy access to good quality, audiophile at a sensible price cables.


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## grawk

In this discussion, I'm a member. The only chance aftermarket cables have to impact sound is by diverging from specifications. I admit I don't know if kimber is one of those cables. They could be perfectly good usb2 spec cables, comparable to belden, except for the marketing nonsense. If they're handmade, or leave pins disconnected, then they're worse than snake oil, they're detrimental and non-conforming.


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## Hansen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Prog Rock Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hansen, ground loop is basically a problem with different electrical items not being grounded and there is interference between them. That in turn causes noise issues._

 

Alright, I think I understand, but I don't know how to avoid/fix that, since the computer should be grounded. However, the USB DAC is powered through the usb buzz.

 I bought the belkin cable and a dlink usb hub that is self-powered, but it did not solve the problem. I have now returned the DAC.


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## Prog Rock Man

Hansen, this is a better and more detailed explanation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

 Both the PC and the DAC are grounded, but possibly at a different potential and that is where a difference is created and you get a loop.


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grawk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In this discussion, I'm a member. The only chance aftermarket cables have to impact sound is by diverging from specifications. I admit I don't know if kimber is one of those cables. They could be perfectly good usb2 spec cables, comparable to belden, except for the marketing nonsense. If they're handmade, or leave pins disconnected, then they're worse than snake oil, they're detrimental and non-conforming._

 

Thanks for that, I see now


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## junker

I'd try a direct connection first and foremost, with as short of a USB run as possible even though the spec is limited to 5m.
   
  Second piece of advice is to try various USB ports on your computer. I had a lot a digital garbage noise coming through on one side of my old MBP, that was reduced on the other side of the computer.
   
  Make sure the USB cable isn't being run adjacent to any other cables.
   
  Finally, if you still have a problem with RFI, does your Kimber cable have the Ferrite filter cores attached. On the Kimber Ag you can request those for a minimal fee. They come standard on the Cu version.
   
  It is a misnomer that all USB cables sound the same cuz' the are digital and "bits are bits". The also have raw 5V DC running with the differential signals. The USB signal leads still carry electrons like any analog wire and will have a rise time and propagation rate determined by the conductor and insulator used. The issue with USB audio is that it is not packet based and there is no error correction. The 0V point is when a "0" is determined to be a "1" and a good cable will give you a good rise time without interference and internal reflections caused by impedance mismatches anywhere from the transmitter chip to the receiver chip.
   
  A good, short Belkin Gold would be okay too but I think they start at 2m. I'd rather have a short 0.5m or shorter cable without the ferrite core, run clean, and made with excellent construction. The Kimber is both crimped and soldered at the connectors as well so if you have it I'd just look at the recs above and see if you can make it work for you. If not, I doubt it is the cable unless you are running without the ferrite cores. Good luck!


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## Chris J

junker said:


> I'd try a direct connection first and foremost, with as short of a USB run as possible even though the spec is limited to 5m.
> 
> Second piece of advice is to try various USB ports on your computer. I had a lot a digital garbage noise coming through on one side of my old MBP, that was reduced on the other side of the computer.
> 
> ...




I do not believe there is a ferrite core around the cable in any USB cable spec.

So any Kimber USB cable with a ferrite core will be off spec.


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## caeadura7

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I do not believe there is a ferrite core around the cable in any USB cable spec.
> 
> So any Kimber USB cable with a ferrite core will be off spec.


 

 Please this isn't a faith thing, the fact is the most of scanners and usb CD/DVD recorders include for free a USB cable with ferrite from the beginning of USB cables era and of course is part of one of the specifications for this kind of cables.
   
  Like I'm using a mac mini connected to a RAID, I need rip my CDs and DVDAs, I tried a lot of different USB cables from printers, scanners, recorders, including Belkin and other brands ripping my discs (in pristine condition), but the most of the time I needed re-rip the discs to obtain an accurate rip. Well, a friend of mine gave me a silver USB cable (not Kimber) and I tried again... and surprise, now in very rare occassions I need re-rip.
  My grain of sand.


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## MadMogone

I have tried both usb cables ( kimber usb copper ) and wireworld ultraviolet and the wireworld cables had more punch to the sound, the kimber was just to laid back for me. ( rock music ). Bare in mind that ordinary usb cables transmit data in blocks, which are very robust, but audio is streamed continuously as a stream and is nowhere near as robust as ordinary computer data.


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## olegausany

I tried Kimber cable but it was too dark when connecting my computer and Woo Audio WA7 and it was too dark when using D7000 headphones so I decided to try Audioquest Carbon and Voodoo Magic Bus and choose to keep Carbon since it is cheaper but heard no difference between them but they gave me sparkle and air Kimber was missing 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## atsq17

My friend has a Belkin Gold and doesn't believe in USB cable affecting sound. 
  
 I let him try an audioquest forest and an older version wireworld ultraviolet
  
 He couldn't tell any difference with the ultraviolet but with the forest he noticed an improvement. He now believes that there is a difference but probably not worth the hundreds people put into it (at least not for his Schiit Modi!). 
  
 I too found the Forest to be better than the the ultraviolet and the belkin but I found the Kimber Cu with the ferrite cores built in to be the nicest of them all. I enjoy laid back sound signatures so the Kimber works very well for me. I tried a newer Wireworld Ultraviolet 5.2 and noticed an improvement over the Belkin and other stock cables but I still liked the Kimber the best.


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