# Logitech Sucks



## ucbEE

I just recieved a set of logitech z2300 speakers. They suck. Is it because I'm sitting too close to them, they haven't been broken in yet, or is it that they actually suck? They are so freaking bottom heavy I feel like all my music is playing underwater. Source is an Echo Indigo. Senn HD280 sound ridiculously better then these. What a waste of money. Are computer speakers even worth it?


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## Asmo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ucbEE* 
_I just recieved a set of logitech z2300 speakers. They suck. Is it because I'm sitting too close to them, they haven't been broken in yet, or is it that they actually suck? They are so freaking bottom heavy I feel like all my music is playing underwater. Source is an Echo Indigo. Senn HD280 sound ridiculously better then these. What a waste of money. Are computer speakers even worth it?_

 

Logitech do suck, and computer speakers are not worth it, they are great for video games, and watching dvds on your computer, for music, go headphones or some bookshelves.


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## roadtonowhere08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asmo* 
_Logitech do suck, and computer speakers are not worth it, they are great for video games, and watching dvds on your computer, for music, go headphones or some bookshelves._

 

Ditto


 Logitech speakers are, "Hey look at me!!" speakers. Not bashing you at all, but they do sound muddy and have crummy bass. If you have the money, go with an amp and bookshelves. If not, try Klipsch Promedias, as they are MUCH better than Logitechs.


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## comabereni

I think locating a quality pair/set of PC speakers is hit-and-miss at best. Almost every example I've come across pretty much stinks. To make things worse, the people most qualified to review and let you know what might sound decent don't dabble in PC speakers, so you're largely on your own. 

 Instead of PC speakers, I recommended the Sonic Impact Tripath "T-amp" from X10.com or Target.com for $2X.00 and a decent set of bookshelf speakers. Lots of decent used bookshelf speakers for less than $100 on Ebay, often significantly less than $100. Look for a speaker that is 88dB sensitivity or higher--I'm running Paradigm Atoms (I paid $140/pair local) that are 89dB, have very decent bass, and play as loud as I would ever care to. The combo sounds VERY nice.

 -coma


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## boodi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ucbEE* 
_I just recieved a set of logitech z2300 speakers. They suck. Is it because I'm sitting too close to them, they haven't been broken in yet, or is it that they actually suck? They are so freaking bottom heavy I feel like all my music is playing underwater. Source is an Echo Indigo. Senn HD280 sound ridiculously better then these. What a waste of money. Are computer speakers even worth it?_

 

there aren't really many imo...a regular amp + 2 speakers on the used market and in the 300$ range will probably very often if not quite always offer very better overall performance results then a commercial major-mass-brand 2.1 or 5.1 system .. i fear this is not an imo , this is very likely the truth , both on specs and on critical listening.

 Moreover it depends what you mean when you say "they suck", there might very well be a problem or a bad sinergy related to your particular setup 

 I compared some Logitechs' to Videologic 5.1 sirocco/dts system and i took the Videologic system for my desktop 

 anyhow I really wonder what would some hw reviewers write about an entry level amp + some full size (cheap) speakers if they used them on some pc games/music ...they probably don't contemplate even it as an option because the only options are the ready made Creative , Logitech and bla bla bla review bla bla bla another review 
 My bla bla bla have a sense : they rave and give high prise quite everytime new 5.1 very commercial system comes out ( Logitech seems to be on par with Creative for raves if not the main current mass vogue ) , and everytime the system is a plastic bulky one that doesn 't deserve anything new to discover if not a boomier bass or some differently decoded sound image on the bulky speakers .
 Sorry Logitech if i was a bit rude - it was just for lolling at the mass commercial market philosophy .


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## liamk

my z5300 suck too :/
 any logitech/creative speakers suck !!! 
 for music only hi-end speakres (< 2000$) or good headphones (<= sennheiser 580).


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## ixeo

logitechs doesnt suck if you like BOOOOOM BOOOOM BOOOM BOOOM..and thats the flabby type at that.. lookatme lookatme! 500W RMS! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 just a FYI, logitech doesn't make speakers, they bought labtec over for their speaker arm.


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## llmobll

Ok yes lets all bash logitech in this thread.



 Seriously though, the problem is with their Satellites. They aren't properly matched with just a big sub. Also the majority of people who have these don't properly EQ them to compensate.


 I'm in the process of building my own satellites using the old drivers but in a different enclosure, hopefully I'll get some of my mid-rage back. Until then the only thing you can do is take the lower freq.'s almos completely out and give a lot of midrage boost. The highs don't really need to be tweaked but I add a bit just because I like my music a little bright. 

 Bottom Line:
 1. The problem is with their small satellites not giving ANY midrage.
 2. Use EQ to compensate.
 3. The will sound pretty good with the right settings but not great, but better than you think.


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## Blahh

yep i have to concur with any of you saying that computer speakers suck, i have the creative t9000 or something kike that, its a 2.1 system. they bass sounds like when your on a bulivard and you pull up beside an el-comino with 2 1000 watt sub wolfers. all bass no... good bass/sound.


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## Mr.Radar

For some decent, non-overpriced computer speakers check out the Cyber Acoustics CA-3000 which I review here. For $20 they sound amazing, but unrefined. Unlike most multimedia speakers the focus of these speakers is the trebel, which can get quite detailed with a good source. The mids are a bit scouped though and the bass doesn't go very low, but for $20 I'm not complaining.


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## Budley007

With proper EQ'ing, (like all the way down to one notch for the sub), my Logitech Z-680s do very well with games and movies. I honestly cannot recommend them to anyone for serious music listening. The just weren't designed that way.


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## mikechai

Aego2 by Acoustic Energy is the best musical speakers that I have heard.
 It is self-powered and sounds amazing. Particularly excel in midrange, for vocals and instrumental songs, you can't beat the Aego2.

 You gotta hear to believe.


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## llmobll

DAMN! All this talk about PC speakers is making me want a better set. Just when I was all happy with my headphone rig.


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## bLue_oNioN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Budley007* 
_With proper EQ'ing, (like all the way down to one notch for the sub), my Logitech Z-680s do very well with games and movies. I honestly cannot recommend them to anyone for serious music listening. The just weren't designed that way._

 

LOL I hear ya. Sometimes I find even the sub cranked down to the last notch above zero slightly overwhelming


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## ucbEE

I find it VERY overwhelming. I played Saint Saen's organ symphony on it and the pedal notes of the organ buried the whole orchestra with the bass knob turned all the way down. I am returning these damn things. I will have about 100 bucks store credit. Thinking about blowing that on some Shures E2C. Are they worth 70 bucks or so?


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## Soundbuff

I own a set of Logitech Z2200's and think they're pretty darn good for the money. They also have a lot of nice features like the remote volume control, power switch, etc.

 No it isn't high end sound, but it's perfectly fine for background listening. You can't expect a miracle for $100, but the Z2200's do a good job for the money they cost.

 Even with headphones, $100 won't get you much. Look at the bright side and look at the value you get for the money you spent.


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## Asmo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Soundbuff* 
_I own a set of Logitech Z2200's and think they're pretty darn good for the money. They also have a lot of nice features like the remote volume control, power switch, etc.

 No it isn't high end sound, but it's perfectly fine for background listening. You can't expect a miracle for $100, but the Z2200's do a good job for the money they cost.

 Even with headphones, $100 won't get you much. Look at the bright side and look at the value you get for the money you spent._

 

Better to put that $100 towards something better.

 Why blow $100 if thats all you got on crap, whe you can save a lil longer and go for something worth while.


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## ssingh0

Quote:


 You can't expect a miracle for $100, but the Z2200's do a good job for the money they cost. 
 

My miraculous senn 580s cost ~100, and I got rid of my 2200's for $70 after paying only $50 (100-50rebate). 

 on the note of pc speakers, ever hear of the monsoon flat panel speakers (<=100), they're discontinued, but there's reviews from when they were around as excellent, lowpriced speakers.


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## MD1032

Reburb Promedia 2.1's are 100 bucks. Definitely one of the best buys in PC audio.


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## insomniac

Not saying they are the best computer speakers out there, but the best ones I've personally heard for music are the Swans M200. Available occasionally at Newegg. Very natural and come as close to bookshelf speakers I've ever heard.

 I'm actually not a big fan of the Klipsch Promedia 2.1. Too bright and harsh for me. But a lot of people like them.


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## Stornn

Agreed. The Z680s also sound absolutely horrible with music...I was going to buy them (a year or so ago), then I heard them, eugh...


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## Budley007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssingh0* 
_My miraculous senn 580s cost ~100, and I got rid of my 2200's for $70 after paying only $50 (100-50rebate). 

 on the note of pc speakers, ever hear of the monsoon flat panel speakers (<=100), they're discontinued, but there's reviews from when they were around as excellent, lowpriced speakers._

 

I've still got a Monsoon setup. Great little speakers. Better than the Klipsch 2.1 that I also own. The only drawback I notice with the Monsoons is they cannot be driven very hard before they start clipping. When I need more sound for a loud room I have to use the Klipsch.


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## some1x

The Aego2 looks interesting, is it possible to find one in Canada?


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## laughingman

Logitech makes killer wireless mouse though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 btw any one had personal experience with their newest z5500 and want to share? It appears there's a huge difference in opinion on sound quality of logitech speakers b/w majority of online/magzine reviewers and ppl posting here. If they all suck so much, why are they getting good reviews across the board? 

 I never owned any logitech speakers btw, currently using a JBL M310J, which produce great sound to my untrained ears, especially considering how small they are. The speaker set was a gift from my uncle. My uncle received them as a demo for business reasons in China. Later on he got another set (a retail version) for himself b/c he was impressed by the demo, but it was significantly worse than the demo... Obviously some malicioius business practice was going on there.


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## jpr703

All computer speakers suck more or less. If you really want to try for halfway decent sound, check out a set from Klipsch or Swan.

 With the Klipsch you can replace the cheap speakerwire that comes in the kit. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on it though, even some relatively cheap monster cable will improve the sound.


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## hackeron

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asmo* 
_Logitech do suck, and computer speakers are not worth it, they are great for video games, and watching dvds on your computer, for music, go headphones or some bookshelves._

 

 Yup, I have the Z680 and they do indeed suck. Used to absolutely adore them more than anything, but after buying the Shure E5, I moved them downstairs to have some music if guests come over -- let them listen to that crap


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## cadobhuk

Logitech doesnt suck.At making mice and keyboards.Just like Zalman doesnt suck at making heatsinks and fans.


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## Alu

One can't really compare the finesse of audioequipment to mice and keyboards though, nothing to do really wrong there if it isn't some lame no name mouse or keyboard.

 Let's all agree on "Logitech sucks in making audioequipment" then.


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## sgrossklass

I'm not particularly fond of Logi keyboards either. My dad has such an Internet Navigator whatever, and sometimes the return key won't go down and hang. The thing is maybe three years old and not abused, doesn't really speak for the quality. I have a 13 year old IBM PS/2 keyboard which probably saw quite some use and abuse in its life judging from the condition I got it in (that is, miserably dirty), and that is still working perfectly (while not feeling quite as good as a 2 years newer and seemingly much less used model I'm typing on right now, but I don't know what it was like when new). Admittedly these things are loud as heck, but they're built to last and I make less typos on them than on anything else. Can't beat Logi mice, though (wired optical), even the lowly OEM models are perfectly fine.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alu* 
_Let's all agree on "Logitech sucks in making audioequipment" then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'd even say you'd have to look pretty hard to find any really good-sounding mainstream PC speaker system. Otherwise there hadn't been this thread on finding those recently.


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## 450

The Harmon/Kardon HK595 Computer Speaker set at around 50 bucks is pretty good. My Micro Center was selling it at 25 bucks! It has two sats at 10 watts each and one 40 watt sub. 60 watts total. Sounds pretty good IMO with eq'ing.


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## ssingh0

what about altec lansing?? they're pretty cheap too. same crap as logitech? no one's said anything (like the atp3 which has been around forever


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## evillamer

I think it is unfair to bash logitech because you didn't pay a grand for it. You paid for what you get. 


 I believe if I were to bash, I rather bash BOSE or B&O for that matter.


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## cozycactus

save money for something like ..
 Mackie HR 824...
 Dynaudio BM15...
 ADAM S3....
 QUESTED..


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## Alu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *evillamer* 
_I believe if I were to bash, I rather bash BOSE or B&O for that matter._

 

I'll follow you wherever you'll be going with that!


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## WillD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Budley007* 
_I've still got a Monsoon setup. Great little speakers. Better than the Klipsch 2.1 that I also own. The only drawback I notice with the Monsoons is they cannot be driven very hard before they start clipping. When I need more sound for a loud room I have to use the Klipsch._

 

I love my PM 14's. I don't think I will ever bother with another computer setup..Id put money into a good receiver and the such before doing that.


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## Stephonovich

A friend of mine got a pair of Logitech Z-somethings (the forerunner to the Z-3, whatever that was) and I thought they weren't too bad, for the money. Yes, the bass was bloated, and a bit muddy, but for casual listening, they were fine. As long as you don't go in expecting audiophile nirvana, I don't think you'll have too much of a problem. I expect my computer speakers to sound like computer speakers, and my cans to sound like bliss


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## Mr.Radar

My brother wants to buy some cheap speakers so he can crank his music and go deaf (not that that needs any helping; he sits in front of the percussion in the middle school band, and he can get sick from the loudness, yet he refuses to buy anything to protect his hearing like the Etymotic ER-20). While I was up in the cities I went to Best Buy and demoed their computer speakers. [BTW, funny story: as I was demoing the speakers one of the sales guys walked by me and said "Hey, that's the first time the demo has worked in a week!"] Here are my ultra-quickie impressions made in a loud store with ultra-compressed (as in MP3) music I was unfamiliar with:

 Creative Labs 2.1 system: Okay, a bit lacking in highs and bass. They look nice though.

 Bose 2.1 system: Yuck! No highs, okay mids, horrible boomy midbass. Don't buy, unless you need something really, really small.

 Klipsh ProMedias: Best of the bunch. Most refined of the bunch and had good highs and mids, though the bass was a bit flabby. IMHO spending another $50 to get some used bookshelves w/ a Sonic Impact T-AMP would probably be much better though.

 Klipsh 5.1 system: Not as good as the ProMedias, though better than the others. The sub looked like it was pretty good.

 Logitech Z680: Bass. All bass, even with the sub turned to the lowest setting. If you're a basshead get this, everyone else can get the ProMedias.


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## PinchyCM

yeah, logitech is crap. while they may not be bad for the money (though i would much rather put the 250-300 towards something else and a set of pm2.1s or altec mx5021s). 

 i hate their fanboy folliowing. they have no idea what they're listenening for, and have the ears of 16 year olds who wants 4x15inch subs in their trunk. they always interject and just name you a "klipsch fanbaoy" as thier response. you can find plenty of those over at anandtech and hard forums. sigh. 

 i suppose i'll just stick to my etys and 580s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for some real listening. side note, klipsch rocks for MM speakers. the ultra sub is amazing for MM. 

 hey audiophiles, i suggest you all go over to AT forums, do a search for logitech, and put all those fanboys back into their place.


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## lini

The only computer speaker system that convinced me so far was JBL's Control Media, a powered/active version of the Control One. Unfortunately, msrp was somewhat high - and it's no longer available, anyway. Canton still offers their similar Plus Media 3 system, though, but I haven't heard it yet.

 Greetings from Hannover!

 Manfred / lini


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## SRM

Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone of you have heard XHifi or H/K Soundstick II comp speakers? how do they compeare to Aego2 or other "hifi" computer speakers. I haven't heard a comp speaker which I would title hifi, but I've heard good ones, like Aego2 which is truly worth every penny, I was even thinking about buying them to accompany my tely before I can afford a real speakers and an amp. But does anyone of you have any experiencies about those, Soundstick II or XHifi ?H/K Soundstick II Xhifi


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## Seijang

My setup for my computer is as follows:

 Swans M200 2.0 from Newegg.com for 187 shipped

 Dayton 10" Subwoofer from Partsexpress.com for 114 shipped

 Total $301.

 My music sounds awesome!  I am but a poor college student who loves his music, and saved up money to buy these. I am really happy with my choices, although the Swans and Dayton do not really come with manuals.. had to figure out the stripping wires and etc by myself .


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## Aman

I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

 When my roomate had a Logitech Z560 "speaker system" for his PC, it sounded terrible. However, when he moved out, he said that he couldn't take them with him. I took them with me and gave them to my family, as they were setting up a home theater system with a projector and a 5.1 sound setup.

 So, I took five of the speakers (the subwoofer amp died on those speakers twice, so he got a new pair for free from Logitech, but the speakers still work fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I bought a Polk subwoofer. Don't get me wrong, Polk subs aren't that great in large rooms, but in this room, it was perfect - and it was a good price.

 So, I set up the five logitech speakers with the Polk sub and I was in for a treat. The speakers sounded REALLY good coming from the setup I had put them in. It wasn't anything special - a 150 dollar Pioneer HT receiver, a Polk sub, and five Logitech Z560 satelite speakers.

 Once they got outside of the crappy PC source environment, and started being powered by a REAL amp/receiver, they came to life! With the addition of a REAL sub (even though it isn't that extended) the setup sounded great.

 I am not saying that Logitech has good products - how many people will be put in the situation as I was put in?

 I'm sure it wasn't intentional either, but what's the point in building a car that's good for the snow if you're selling it in Florida?

 The point is that in some situations I was able to make great use out of these crappy speakers, but more money was involved and the normal user of these speakers would in no situation have to do what I did.

 All in all, however, I am happy with the speakers that I didn't purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had to make the decision, I would have definitely NEVER even thought of these speakers. But, well, they were free, and for some reason they sound VERY good now.
 Strange...


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## Blitzula

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Radar* 
_My brother wants to buy some cheap speakers so he can crank his music and go deaf (not that that needs any helping; he sits in front of the percussion in the middle school band, and he can get sick from the loudness, yet he refuses to buy anything to protect his hearing like the Etymotic ER-20)._

 

Where exactly are your parents in this? Why is the band leader letting kids sit with unprotected hearing?


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## AdamWill

alu: heh, there's more types of nerd in the world than audio nerds...go ask a high-level PC gamer if there's no difference between mice as long as they're not a no-name brand. Alternatively, just go take away their high-end Logitech or Razer and give 'em a $10 cheapest-Microsoft-optical-mouse and say 'what's the difference, they're all just mice!' It'd be a bit like someone coming over, stealing your modded 650s with $1k amp, giving you a pair of stock Sony earbuds and saying 'what's the difference, they're all just headphones!' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyways, I agree with the non-bashers here. I've got logitech z-5300s. They're pants. But they're exactly as pants as I expected to get having paid $200 for them. I mean there's people here comparing them to a) bookshelf speakers (hello, you only get two! half the point in buying speakers like this is the surround sound) b) much, much more expensive 'real hi-fi' equipment and c) quite a lot more expensive Klipsch computer stuff. I still think, for $200 on a surround-sound setup, there's nothing at all wrong with a set of Logitechs. Of course you can buy something a bit more audiophile-y, spend more money and get better music (though your movies probably won't sound as good, or your games). But that's not really the point, is it?


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## Daroid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aman* 
_I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

 When my roomate had a Logitech Z560 "speaker system" for his PC, it sounded terrible. However, when he moved out, he said that he couldn't take them with him. I took them with me and gave them to my family, as they were setting up a home theater system with a projector and a 5.1 sound setup.

 So, I took five of the speakers (the subwoofer amp died on those speakers twice, so he got a new pair for free from Logitech, but the speakers still work fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I bought a Polk subwoofer. Don't get me wrong, Polk subs aren't that great in large rooms, but in this room, it was perfect - and it was a good price.

 So, I set up the five logitech speakers with the Polk sub and I was in for a treat. The speakers sounded REALLY good coming from the setup I had put them in. It wasn't anything special - a 150 dollar Pioneer HT receiver, a Polk sub, and five Logitech Z560 satelite speakers.

 Once they got outside of the crappy PC source environment, and started being powered by a REAL amp/receiver, they came to life! With the addition of a REAL sub (even though it isn't that extended) the setup sounded great.

 I am not saying that Logitech has good products - how many people will be put in the situation as I was put in?

 I'm sure it wasn't intentional either, but what's the point in building a car that's good for the snow if you're selling it in Florida?

 The point is that in some situations I was able to make great use out of these crappy speakers, but more money was involved and the normal user of these speakers would in no situation have to do what I did.

 All in all, however, I am happy with the speakers that I didn't purchase 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I had to make the decision, I would have definitely NEVER even thought of these speakers. But, well, they were free, and for some reason they sound VERY good now.
 Strange..._

 

I agree, the sats are actually quite decent on their own, but due to a high crossover of about 180 Hz and plastic enclosure with no wool etc. inside they sound outright TERRIBLE with the sub. They are very tight sounding and precise for their size but obviously has little bass on their own. I'll bet that they will be even better in wooled MDF enclosures or similar, they are good for speech especially. The drivers are made by Tangband - http://www.tb-speaker.com and searching around the net, a lot of people actually use their full-range drivers for DIY speaker projects at a low budget.
 Nothing wrong with the speakers - it's just Logitech has no clue whatsoever what good sound is and they managed to ruin o.k. speaker elements completely with a mismatched sub, too high crossover, bad speaker enclosure and lousy quality (many units have died and still do - they develop much heat since they are very inefficient but low-cost amps). Not even the price is good when you consider that you get far worser sound than what the speakers are capable of.

 EDIT: Ever wondered why they have no treble extension on the stock Z560/Z680 set ? Look at the charts here for example: http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w3-594s.asp
 See the impedance ? Now you know why the crossover is so high - t eliminate the fact that the amp can't drive them properly at the impedance of 50 Ohm... unfortunately for Logitech the impedance escalates at the treble region up to 30 Ohm at 20 kHz. That's not an easy speaker to drive at all.


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## Erukian

I'll be blunt. Logitech maks ****** speakers, they sound muddy and dull. They lack tweeters or anything dedicated to upper/high frequency so female voices sound screwed up.

 Also, the build quality is ****. Ive read the comments here, people here have had dying amps, people i know have dying amps, and guess what, "I" had a dying amp! Wow, if this happened in the headphone world, NOBODY would buy from that company.


 I would suggest if you want "musical" speakers (ie. flattest freq response) but you want 5.1's you get either the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 Ultra's, or the Creative Gigaworks S700 or S750 (7.1 system). Both sound great (compared to creative's lower end products and the whole logitech line) and both have home theatre class subwoofers.

 If you want just 2 channel. Klipsch Ultra 2.0's are the best you can do.

 If you want to exit the PC speaker world and go to something like Monitors or bookshelves, then that's where I'm at.

 Currently I own these for my stereo.
http://www.klipsch.com/product/produ...id=658&s=specs
 This for my sub.
http://www.hsustore.com/stf2.html
 And this is my stereo receiver.
http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...203480&sType=C
 Alltogether after buying cables/speaker wire cost me a good 900 USD. Tack on my new $100 E-mu 0404 and well..

 Upgrading speaker wire on multimedia products (pc speakers) IS POINTLESS. You only notice it on speakers made for music, not speakers made to be a "jack of all trades, master of none" (ie boom box for games/movies/music).

 I would have to say, the Promedia 2.0 ultra's from Klipsch IS THE BEST SOUND you can get for a musical pc speakers. But stepping up to hi-fi speakers is going to cost you a lot, but will pay off with the sound.. And for 99 bucks the price is hard to beat.


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## PinchyCM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Erukian* 
_I'll be blunt. Logitech maks ****** speakers, they sound muddy and dull. They lack tweeters or anything dedicated to upper/high frequency so female voices sound screwed up.

 Also, the build quality is ****. Ive read the comments here, people here have had dying amps, people i know have dying amps, and guess what, "I" had a dying amp! Wow, if this happened in the headphone world, NOBODY would buy from that company.


 I would suggest if you want "musical" speakers (ie. flattest freq response) but you want 5.1's you get either the Klipsch Promedia 5.1 Ultra's, or the Creative Gigaworks S700 or S750 (7.1 system). Both sound great (compared to creative's lower end products and the whole logitech line) and both have home theatre class subwoofers.

 If you want just 2 channel. Klipsch Ultra 2.0's are the best you can do.

 If you want to exit the PC speaker world and go to something like Monitors or bookshelves, then that's where I'm at.

 Currently I own these for my stereo.
http://www.klipsch.com/product/produ...id=658&s=specs
 This for my sub.
http://www.hsustore.com/stf2.html
 And this is my stereo receiver.
http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...203480&sType=C
 Alltogether after buying cables/speaker wire cost me a good 900 USD. Tack on my new $100 E-mu 0404 and well..

 Upgrading speaker wire on multimedia products (pc speakers) IS POINTLESS. You only notice it on speakers made for music, not speakers made to be a "jack of all trades, master of none" (ie boom box for games/movies/music).

 I would have to say, the Promedia 2.0 ultra's from Klipsch IS THE BEST SOUND you can get for a musical pc speakers. But stepping up to hi-fi speakers is going to cost you a lot, but will pay off with the sound.. And for 99 bucks the price is hard to beat._

 

agreed. if you're looking for a 2.1 MM setup, try the altec lanscing mx5021s.


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## tiberian

my discontinued altec lansing AD627s sound very nice for the money.


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## AdamWill

erukian: nope, I'm still not getting the point. You recommend Klipsch Promedia Ultra ($350) or Creative Gigaworks ($338) instead of Logitech - either z-5500 ($270) or z-680 ($200). I'd hope they'd be better, for that kind of price difference. Let alone your home system, $900 for stereo....


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## Asmo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AdamWill* 
_erukian: nope, I'm still not getting the point. You recommend Klipsch Promedia Ultra ($350) or Creative Gigaworks ($338) instead of Logitech - either z-5500 ($270) or z-680 ($200). I'd hope they'd be better, for that kind of price difference. Let alone your home system, $900 for stereo...._

 

Welcome to head-fi, this isn't a PC audio forum, this is about headphones & hi-fi components in general. PCs are now becoming viable as decent sources, so we have this great forum now. this forum is not about toy speakers for pcs.

 So, really, any mention of pc speakers are bound to be put down, even the klipsch offerings are not very good compared to any entry level component system. Spending $900, and more frequently, much *more* is the norm around here


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## Imyourzero

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daroid* 
_Nothing wrong with the speakers - it's just Logitech has no clue whatsoever what good sound is and they managed to ruin o.k. speaker elements completely with a mismatched sub, too high crossover, bad speaker enclosure and *lousy quality (many units have died and still do - they develop much heat since they are very inefficient but low-cost amps).* Not even the price is good when you consider that you get far worser sound than what the speakers are capable of._

 

To be fair (and this has nothing to do with sound quality), Klipsch had some quality issues as well. The original ProMedia v2-400's had the scratchy volume pot (my set experienced this as well), and the later 5.1's had issues with the amps dying as well. I was on the Klipsch message board and there were quite a few people with ProMedia 5.1's that died. Luckily, Klipsch seems to have decent customer service as long as the product is still under warranty, so I think they were replacing the defective units without much hassle...but that's to be expected when your product is covered under warranty.

 I'm not a "fanboy" of either side and have owned PC speaker sets from both companies, but in the midst of all this Logitech bashing I wanted to remind some of you that Klipsch has definitely had its share of problems too...


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## Erukian

I'm gonna try to do some compare/contrasting in this post, hopefully you guys can learn something from MY experiences. I'm sure some people have had no problems and think the logitech's sound great, but maybe their ears arent trained for good sound?

 I'm not a fan of logitech for speakers (i love their mice/keybaords) because:
 A) 3/5 people i know who do own logitech systems have had problems with them.
 B) I read about people here having problems, people on the logitech.com boards having problems, people on the 3DSS-Forums having problems, and finally
 C) I had a Z-680 over a year ago, the sub's amp rattled at certian frequencies, i called them, they said "Oh we'll replace it". I could of voided the warranty, put some weather seal in there and fixed the rattle but with all the problems from A and B listed above, i decided to send it in, they then sent me back a refurbished set, suffice to say i didnt like the fact that my "new" replacement had a bunch of dings all over the satts, so i sent it back to logitech, and they then decided to give me a refund instead of replace the unit again. (What?). 

 So I decided - fine, whatever. Time to move on, I then bought a set of Klipsch Promedia 5.1 Ultra's (considerably more expensive) and this set taught me what bass is. The klipsch promedia sub today is still the king of all PC multimedia speaker systems when it comes to digging deep. This of course depends on placement in a room (the sub is sometimes too big even to be under some desks). When i say taught me what bass was, is that I thought my Grado SR-80's sounded "good" but not bassy. I was used to logitech bass. Where Bass = my pant leg moving and my insides shaking from the blasting sound effects in movies. Not a pretty flat frequency response.

 For those people still used to logitech's bass, i'll give you a few examples, drums in music is NOT bass, on the klipsch ultra's or the creative gigaworks it's all handeled on the sattelites. Bass guitar's are mostly sattelite work, not sub work. Just because the new Z-5500's from logitech use a 10" sub driver DOES NOT mean it's musical, just because some radioshack headphones might have the same size drivers as a pair of senn cans, doesnt mean they sound the same - at all. Unfortunately people not in the know buy speakers rated by sub sizes, wattage and looks. Not effiency (sensitivity), frequency response, soundstage and imaging. All the Ultra/gigaworks subs add is really pretty much everything below 130. Cut out everything below 130 and what you'll lose in these system's is warmth - not boom boom. These two sets vs logitech's sound much much closer to a pair of good cans. Logitech's sattelites surprised me by not utilizing a tweeter, but I gave their phase technology the benefit of the doubt and gave em a demo. Recessed high's and the xover set too high on the sub to make up for the lack of lower midrange. It's like logitech went for a driver that tries to act as two. It saves costs but when it comes down to music - it just doesnt work.

 And please, no headphone vs speaker comments, its borderline trolling since it's so one sided in here.

 edit: added a word - clarity.


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## Erukian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Imyourzero* 
_To be fair (and this has nothing to do with sound quality), Klipsch had some quality issues as well. The original ProMedia v2-400's had the scratchy volume pot (my set experienced this as well), and the later 5.1's had issues with the amps dying as well. I was on the Klipsch message board and there were quite a few people with ProMedia 5.1's that died. Luckily, Klipsch seems to have decent customer service as long as the product is still under warranty, so I think they were replacing the defective units without much hassle...but that's to be expected when your product is covered under warranty.

 I'm not a "fanboy" of either side and have owned PC speaker sets from both companies, but in the midst of all this Logitech bashing I wanted to remind some of you that Klipsch has definitely had its share of problems too..._

 

Right on, they have had issues. The volume pot's did flake out on the PM 4.1's and some of the fuses did blow on the 5.1 Promedias.

 Klipsch is known for having some of the best customer service though, I know some people who just call them wanting to ask a technical question but end up talking about the weather or whatever cause their service girls are NICE. Anyhoo, I called them before i got my 5.1 Ultra's and I asked about the problem, they said 98% of all Promedia THX 5.1's (not the ultra's) sold have had no issues. If you did have a blown fuse, what they would do is not only take your 5.1 Promedia's, but replace them with the Ultra's for free.

 I know i'm sounding like a fanboy, but call klipsch customer support for yourself if you dont believe me. People on the klipsch forums had their 5.1 THX's die after the warranty, and if they just called cust. supp. they would get em replaced with ultras, because klipsch has standards with it's customers. They are a pretty high end brand but in the high-hi-fi crowd, their reguarded as more mid-high-fi. I'd say their customer support rivals nextel's, if any of you have heard about their cust. support.

 About the volume pot's, that issue only happened when you changed volumes, it didnt pop or crackle while playing back (at least my friends crackling pot didnt) music, so i dont see this as a serious defect, but it's worth nothing nevertheless.


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## Aman

I would also like to point out that I have never had a good experience with their mice or keyboards either. Somebody else said that they didn't "suck at making keyboards and mice".

 Very untrue. Their wireless mice suck beyond meaning, and mine died slightly more than a year after purchase - new batteries, reconfiguration - nothing helped it. Their keyboard keys are too soft for typing, and are incredible cheap-feeling. Want a good keyboard? Get an IBM or a Keytronics.


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## SDA

Odd.. their wireless mice have gotten mostly good reviews, and their wired mice have gotten excellent reviews across the board. I'd say you had an abnormal experience with your mouse. (No personal interest in saying this, though; I don't bother with wireless mice, I have a bungee.)

 Agree with you on keyboards, though. I'd take my Model M over a Logitech or MS keyboard any day.

 On an on-topic note, I mostly agree with Erukian's impressions of Logitech's speakers. I will say, though, that I've never heard Klipsch's computer speaker systems for extended periods of time, so I can only say that the Z-680s suck compared to hi-fi speakers and decent headphones (even some of Koss's low-end headphones).


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## Duncan

I don't think that neccesarily ALL computer speakers suck...

 I heard a pair of Harmon Kardon SoundStick IIs the other day, and was very impressed... It had the "rude boy" bass for if you wanted that, or else could be very dignified with the bass the other end of the scale...

 Apart from those, the CSW 'Digital' speakers I had were pretty good too when the sub was tuned correctly, albeit they had a slightly hollow midrange, but for the money they cost, you couldn't complain


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## Ferbose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asmo* 
_Welcome to head-fi, this isn't a PC audio forum, this is about headphones & hi-fi components in general. PCs are now becoming viable as decent sources, so we have this great forum now. this forum is not about toy speakers for pcs._

 

I thought this particular sub-forum is also for speakers. PC speakers are speakers, too. For me, PC speakers should be designed to provide good sound without taking up too much space. Audiophiles can also run into situations where they need good sound from small speakers. Hey, if I know which dirt cheap PC speaker sounds good, at least I can give them out as Christmas gifts to impress my friends. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Asmo* 
_So, really, any mention of pc speakers are bound to be put down, even the klipsch offerings are not very good compared to any entry level component system. Spending $900, and more frequently, much *more* is the norm around here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

With all due respect, I have to disagree. We even have "out" forums to discuss things not realted to audio at all. PC speakers have every right to be discussed as those Wilson Audio speakers. And I see cheap components getting in-depth discussions here just like super expensive ones. 
 Hack, some people compared $5000 tube preamp+$1800 tube amp with a $30 class-T _toy_ amplifier to drive $700 K1000 headphones. Guess what--$30 amp came out on top. So I read that and went out and bought the $30 amp, and now it replaces a $350 hybrid amp to drive my main speakers. 
 And this $30 amp is actually designed to drive cheap computer speakers. So, if there is a good $50-$80 computer speaker out there I would like to know, becuase now there is a _great_ amp to drive them.


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## Snake

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpr703* 
_I wouldn't spend a lot of money on it though, even some relatively cheap monster cable will improve the sound._

 

Isn't that, like, an oxymoron?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpr703* 
_All computer speakers suck more or less. If you really want to try for halfway decent sound, check out a set from Klipsch or Swan._

 

The Swans got great reviews. The top of the line Creative stuff isn't that bad but you'll have to spend for a 5.1 / 6.1 / 7.1 system to get it, unless you want to buy similar product under the Cambridge SoundWorks label (there, you can get 2.1 systems but end up paying the same money as carefully shopping the Creative 5.1 system).


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## aliasfox

I have a pair of Monsoon MM-1000 speakers, and a buddy of mine has a Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 set. For those of you that appreciate Sennheiser sound, the Monsoon wins, hands down. The bass isn't quite as tight or as deep as the Klipsch setup, and because the crossover is higher, bass localization occurs earlier, but the sound coming out of the satellites (as long as it's not pushed too loud) is positively amazing for the price (I paid $165). Yes, I paid less than 1/3 for my HD497s, which are better balanced at the lower end of the spectrum (extend deeper, tighter, no localization), but the soundstage and clarity of the satellites is (to my ears) unmatched by even my other friend's PSB Alpha setup (forget the amp).


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## necropimp

computer speakers IMO aren't really intended for audiophiles or really music... they serve their purpose best with games and movies... anything where **** blows up... i won't lie i have a $50 set of creative speakers... i never listen to music through them but they are great for shooting little guys with big rockets


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## ooheadsoo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Daroid* 
_I agree, the sats are actually quite decent on their own, but due to a high crossover of about 180 Hz and plastic enclosure with no wool etc. inside they sound outright TERRIBLE with the sub. They are very tight sounding and precise for their size but obviously has little bass on their own. I'll bet that they will be even better in wooled MDF enclosures or similar, they are good for speech especially. The drivers are made by Tangband - http://www.tb-speaker.com and searching around the net, a lot of people actually use their full-range drivers for DIY speaker projects at a low budget.
 Nothing wrong with the speakers - it's just Logitech has no clue whatsoever what good sound is and they managed to ruin o.k. speaker elements completely with a mismatched sub, too high crossover, bad speaker enclosure and lousy quality (many units have died and still do - they develop much heat since they are very inefficient but low-cost amps). Not even the price is good when you consider that you get far worser sound than what the speakers are capable of.

 EDIT: Ever wondered why they have no treble extension on the stock Z560/Z680 set ? Look at the charts here for example: http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w3-594s.asp
 See the impedance ? Now you know why the crossover is so high - t eliminate the fact that the amp can't drive them properly at the impedance of 50 Ohm... unfortunately for Logitech the impedance escalates at the treble region up to 30 Ohm at 20 kHz. That's not an easy speaker to drive at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 


 There's nothing wrong with the impedance. There is nothing remarkable about it. Look up some 3" fostex full range driver impedance plots. The impedance plots look nearly identical though they cost about $30 a pop.


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## sirnice

Today I was at Bestbuy just browsing for new tech stuff. I was in the speakers secton and they have the Bose Companion 3 setup for demo (as well as the other major players of course, Logitech Z-5500, Klipsch Pros, Creative I-Trique lines, Altec Lansing and some ther cheap stuff).

 So I went around hitting that little red button that activates each speaker so you can do a comparison of each.
 I was very surprised that the Bose Companion 3. It sounded the best to me.
 The vocal is very clean, excellent highs and the base is tight with a quick impact percussions while other speakers sounded boommy and dull.

 It beats out the $399 logitech and Klipsch speaker systems in terms of sound quality). One word I could use to describe the music coming out of the Bose is "Clean". Very simple, tight sound compare to other speakers with their 500+ watts extra large size subwoofers. I was tempted to buy a pair. Maybe will will in a later date. 

 I know Bose is not very popular around here but I would recommend you go check them out and hear it for yourself.


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## Mr.Radar

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sirnice* 
_Today I was at Bestbuy just browsing for new tech stuff. I was in the speakers secton and they have the Bose Companion 3 setup for demo (as well as the other major players of course, Logitech Z-5500, Klipsch Pros, Creative I-Trique lines, Altec Lansing and some ther cheap stuff).

 So I went around hitting that little red button that activates each speaker so you can do a comparison of each.
 I was very surprised that the Bose Companion 3. It sounded the best to me.
 The vocal is very clean, excellent highs and the base is tight with a quick impact percussions while other speakers sounded boommy and dull.

 It beats out the $399 logitech and Klipsch speaker systems in terms of sound quality). One word I could use to describe the music coming out of the Bose is "Clean". Very simple, tight sound compare to other speakers with their 500+ watts extra large size subwoofers. I was tempted to buy a pair. Maybe will will in a later date. 

 I know Bose is not very popular around here but I would recommend you go check them out and hear it for yourself._

 

So I'm not crazy! I heard the same thing the other week at a Circuit City. You need to remember though that Bose is notorious for making it hard to compare their speakers fairly, so Bose might've specially selected the test tracks to make their speakers sound the best.


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## KZEE

The first thing I did when I got my el cheapo Creative computer speakers was to take them apart and line them with self stick sound damping material (available at car stereo shops), and although the damping material didn't turn the speakers into audiphile speakers, the damping material did make a tremendous improvement in the sound of the speakers and for the little bit I use my computer's sound system I'm very happy with the results.


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## saturnine

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Radar* 
_You need to remember though that Bose is notorious for making it hard to compare their speakers fairly, so Bose might've specially selected the test tracks to make their speakers sound the best._

 

QFT, they are known to do this..

 I've heard most of the "commercially available" computer speakers (BestBuy/Circuit City/CompUSA) and they all sucked with music. Sure, some of them got loud (Klipsch Promedia! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), but none of them sounded quite right with music. I ended up with the Swan's M200, and they are by far the best mutimedia speakers I've heard. They are lacking low bass, but everything else sounds just right


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## Eagle_Driver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saturnine* 
_I've heard most of the "commercially available" computer speakers (BestBuy/Circuit City/CompUSA) and they all sucked with music. Sure, some of them got loud (Klipsch Promedia! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), but none of them sounded quite right with music. I ended up with the Swan's M200, and they are by far the best mutimedia speakers I've heard. They are lacking low bass, but everything else sounds just right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

QFT here, too. For that matter, most of the 2.1 setups of any type - even full-sized units designed for home audio use - aren't all that great for music, either. Most commit the common sin of scooping out the region around where the satellites cross over with the so-called "sub".

 In fact, the best PC desktop speakers for music at moderate volumes may be a relatively high-end 2-piece (or 2.0) speaker system, such as the Klipsch Ultra 2.0 or the Altec Lansing MX5020. Otherwise, you can do better with a bookshelf speaker system.


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## ricmat

too late now..

 anyway, i own a pair of Harman Kardon Soundstick II and if with some eq they sound great!

 they have such an airy, clear sound! i just love that!

 (but yes, IMO they need eq, otherwise theres some mids lack..)


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## TurboRotaryFreak

I have the Klipsch iFi. It's discontinued now. But I EQed the sound to lowwer on the high and low side with a raised mid and I am really satisfied. Moreover, I raised the treble a little annd I have nice crisp deliverance and some good low end and I can heaar the mids perfectly. 

 As you cann see i'm new to Head-Fi so please have mercy.


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## lordkelmain

Logitech's Z-680 series wasn't all that bad sounding. Build quality was pretty poor, though. 

 For budget 2.1, I don't think anything beats the Philips MMS430. I got them on a $20 deal a few years back (they still retail for $60+) and am still amazed at their quality compared to speakers of similar MSRP. 

 - lk


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