# DDC - Digital USB interfaces - Xmos or Amanero Combo384 based - Raspberry Pi - HifiBerry DAC+ Pro - reviews, comparison, modifications and USB-Audio in general



## abartels

Hi all,
  
Started this thread since nowadays most people use USB as their preferred connection method.
There are several options like XMOS and Amanero Combo384, and there are lots of DDC's available worldwide.
  
For the ones who are new to this subject, feel free to read the other related threads, some of them are closed, others aren't.
  
From member rb2013
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
  
From member abartels
http://www.head-fi.org/t/767935/melodious-mx-u8-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
  
From member norrest
http://www.head-fi.org/t/787723/audio-gd-amanero-combo-xmos-u8-using-and-update
  
  
Please share your experiences, ask any question you may have, TRY to be on topic and last but definitely not least, please keep being polite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  




  
 Wish you all a lot of fun and listening pleasure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


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## auvgeek

For those interested, the latest USB DDC rankings from the U12 thread are as follows:
  
 rb2013's rankings:
  
 Quote:


abartels said:


> DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious     130
> PUC2 Lite TeraDak X1/FR caps/Cerious    125
> DXIO Black/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious      118 unit not working properly
> PUC2 Lite - USB power                          110
> ...


 
  
 bimmer100's rankings (note the different scale):


abartels said:


> REALITY - 100
> Pro3A Silver TOP - not going to find out
> Pro3A Black TOP - not going to find out
> Pro3A YELLOW TOP fed from USB power from PPA3 usb/Paul Hynes Sr3 PSU  (I own this one lol) - 85
> ...


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## defbear

I've subscribed. Even though I have superior soldering skills, I'm not sure if I belong here . I have the Audio-gd Master 11 with the Amanero USB board. Add a tablet or laptop and it's a pretty clean setup. If there is a 'better' USB solution than Amanero I'm open to it.


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## hgpsemaj

From my own experience, my Amanero Combo384 has outpaced Xmos/Gustard U12. And I've been told 'Raspberry PI 2' could be a better alternative, but I'm worrying my AK4495SEQ DAC may not be suitable for the 'Raspberry PI 2'.


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## hugoboss

i just found a newer xmos ddc it said double the current xmos u8 500mips
 the name is *XMOS XU208 it claim double the u8 performance now it is 1000 mips*
  
*the product is here*
  
 http://world.taobao.com/item/525303585106.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4002-254628591.11.FBXsJT
  
 but iam curious why it is cheaper than any xmos u8 device like gustard, breeze and melodius
 anyone have try this new generation xmos 1000 mips?
 plz give some thoughts


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## conquerator2

hugoboss said:


> i just found a newer xmos ddc it said double the current xmos u8 500mips
> the name is *XMOS XU208 it claim double the u8 performance now it is 1000 mips*
> 
> *the product is here*
> ...


 
 No case, no power supply, only coax output. This is pretty much a DIY board


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## robertsong

Well I just got the Crystek 957's and I successfully replaced the stock Breeze DU-U8 clocks. I hear a subtle difference but too early to tell if better or worse. I'm gonna give them some burn-in time. Will report back soon.


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## hugoboss

conquerator2 said:


> No case, no power supply, only coax output. This is pretty much a DIY board


 

 do u think this new xmos 1000 mips worth to wait until someone assembly a full chassis with power supply , case, any audiophile circuit
 i will hold my wallet if this new xmos 1000 mips chip really double the performance of u8


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## hgpsemaj

*Re: **XMOS XU208*
  

  
  
 The manufacturer claims this Xmos XU208 USB Interface requires 5V to operate via the USB input:
  
 有關 'X-1數字界面 模塊 XU208 全網首發 最新XMOS USB界面 U8升級版', RMB369.00 / 一塊,



它需要從USB口輸入5V電嗎?




 18:53​
 



xiu305470199

 需要的



xiu305470199

 你也可以自己改外置供电的。


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## auvgeek

robertsong said:


> Well I just got the Crystek 957's and I successfully replaced the stock Breeze DU-U8 clocks. I hear a subtle difference but too early to tell if better or worse. I'm gonna give them some burn-in time. Will report back soon.


 
 Very interested in your findings here. Please let us know after they've had some time to burn-in.


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## abartels

hugoboss said:


> i just found a newer xmos ddc it said double the current xmos u8 500mips
> the name is *XMOS XU208 it claim double the u8 performance now it is 1000 mips*
> 
> *the product is here*
> ...


 
  
  
 This looks like a very nice board, newest XMOS and it has spdif AND i2s onboard! It seems they also use 3x NDK TCXO's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sadly it hasn't isolated power for crystals and xmos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is too expensive to buy for testing purposes only,,,,,
  
 But, anyway, thanks for this very nice find!
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


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## abartels

hugoboss said:


> conquerator2 said:
> 
> 
> > No case, no power supply, only coax output. This is pretty much a DIY board
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I would wait, or, at least wait till someone compares it with Amanero board


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## hgpsemaj

*Re: Xmos/XU208*
  
 This is the Gustard's answer to Xmos/XU208: 
  

  
 It's supposedly to built for it's DAC - X20, Mr. Huang of Gustard claims it doesn't consume 5V via USB input, and costs RMB380 (i.e. excluding postage & delivery.)


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## hgpsemaj

The manufacturer of AK4495SEQ DAC informed me that their AK4495SEQ DAC is not suitable for Raspberry PI.
  
  
 Regards,


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## genclaymore

hgpsemaj said:


> *Re: Xmos/XU208*
> 
> This is the Gustard's answer to Xmos/XU208:
> 
> ...


 

 I wonder would it work inside the X12, as the X12 also have a plug like that inside it.


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## hgpsemaj

Hello genclaymore,
  
 Mr. Huang of Gustard said this USB Interface PCB is suitable for Gustard DAC - X12,
  
  
23:09​
貴司最新的 Xmos/XU208 USB Interface 可用在 DAC-X12 嗎?




23:24​
huang_cs

 可以



huang_cs

 这个可以用在x12


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## hugoboss

hgpsemaj said:


> *Re: Xmos/XU208*
> 
> This is the Gustard's answer to Xmos/XU208:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 o my god this is like pci express slot for pc
 if its true i will buy this next gen xmos asap
  
 so i think the future of xmos is 208


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## hugoboss

is there any chance gustard will release this xmos 208 in their newest line like stand alone ddc converter


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## hgpsemaj

hugoboss said:


> o my god this is like pci express slot for pc
> if its true i will buy this next gen xmos asap
> 
> so i think the future of xmos is 208


 
  
 Superseded.


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## hgpsemaj

Hello genclaymore and hugoboss,
  
 I would *NOT *buy this Gustard USB Interface PCB for this moment, it's because I'm still awaiting for their official announcement in respect of this USB PCB.
  
 For safety sake, we shall wait for their confirmation via their own official web site.
  
  
  
 Regards,
  
  
 Riemann


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## genclaymore

I have no plans to buy it, I was curious to see if it would work.


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## hgpsemaj

genclaymore said:


> I have no plans to buy it, I was curious to see if it would work.


 
  
  
 Wise move.


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## hugoboss

yeah like many other the first new model always come with bugs, let see later on about this xmos performing
 but i still looking for finishing product using this new xmos chipset to try it for my dac , i am usually looking in taobao china, its always cheap in there


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## bimmer100

Thankfully this thread has began. I'm subbed.


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## defbear

bimmer100 said:


> Thankfully this thread has began. I'm subbed.


I was going to point this one out to you but figured you would see it.


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## abartels

It's quiet over here, everybody waits for the weekend?


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## Nu3nO

Subbed, thanks Alex!
  
 Melodious Audio MX-U8 Ultimate Edition V1.7 is available now from ShenzhenAudio.
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/melodious-audio-mx-u8-ultimate-edition-32bit-384khz-dsd-xmos-usb-digital-audio-interface.html
  
 I was looking at Gustard U12 but the MX-U8 appears to be rated higher & now this MX-U8 Ultimate Edition!
  
 Any thoughts?


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## Luckbad

nu3no said:


> Subbed, thanks Alex!
> 
> Melodious Audio MX-U8 Ultimate Edition V1.7 is available now from ShenzhenAudio.
> http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/melodious-audio-mx-u8-ultimate-edition-32bit-384khz-dsd-xmos-usb-digital-audio-interface.html
> ...


 
  
 Someone help @bimmer100 not see this.


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## Albrecht

Hi Bimmer100
  
 Thank you for all your posts & thoughts on this subject and these units.
  
 Just curious if you have received your yellow DXIO Pro3A & what you thought? Although others have said the Pro3A was the "best," I am concerned about reports as to its build quality.
  
 I am leaning toward the Breeze.
  
 Thanks again.


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## sealykojac

I've been going back and forth with Breeze directly regarding the faulty DU-U8 I received through Aliexpress. At this point I'm just asking for my money back minus their shipping costs and walking away. Still don't know if that will happen but don't want to pay return shipping to China. Mine adds a lovely snap, crackle, pop to audio. There were at least three other people with similar issues with DU-U8's on the previous thread.


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## bimmer100

albrecht said:


> Hi Bimmer100
> 
> Thank you for all your posts & thoughts on this subject and these units.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I surely can't say that the COLOR of the pro3a will have ANYTHING to do with whether it is better or not.  they are all the same, but have been known to have some quality control issues. As it seems with many ddc's. sadly....
  
 but the pro3a is clearly the best ddc for the money. My DIU8 is just as good but also 3 times the price, and it's only as good after I upgraded to crystek 957's....soon I will try NDK's (this weekend). anyhow, i'm not interested in the new melodious, as it doesn't have hdmi i2s. neither does the pro3a. SO..... i sold my "yellow" pro3a to another headfi member who absolutely loves it paired with his Theta Gen V .  The pro3a is fantastic with coax, and preferably a very good coax cable. 
  
 I will have a breeze this month sometime and will be doing the 957 mod. SO, at this time I can't say the breeze is better or worse.... I would go with a very very strong gut feeling to say the pro3a will STILL be better than the breeze after the 957 mod. seriously. just my opinion, but I have not tested this "hunch" yet. I will report back later at the end of the month or early march when I have had time to compare the Breeze w/957s to the pro3a. 
  
 the new melodious looks better than the breeze as it sits...just my opinion, I would like to try it, but i've wrapped up too much money into the ddc thing lately.
  
 I'm looking at building a custom one from JL audio's DIY setup, and use some seriously high end linear PSU's for the isolated section  and reclocker. 
  
 anyhow, whatever your choice, i'm sure you will be happy enough. The pro3a is very detailed and sounds incredible. I say it's a better designer overall than the breeze. You can power it with a linear psu...no brainer there.
  
 the breeze has poor power implementation in comparison... no option for linear power, and shows signs of improvement from power cables. likely due to a poor ac mains design. I'm just guessing a good cord helps reduce noise into the breeze.


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## Albrecht

Wow...
  
 Thanks! Really appreciate your detailed response. I would hazard a guess that the Talema upgrade to the Breeze is a "must have" and improves it. I originally didn't want to mess around trying to source a good linear PSU for the Pro3A. But, - your recommendation carries a lot of weight with me: & the ability to use a really nice external PSU makes good sense.
  
 Thanks again for your detailed comments....


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## bimmer100

albrecht said:


> Wow...
> 
> Thanks! Really appreciate your detailed response. I would hazard a guess that the Talema upgrade to the Breeze is a "must have" and improves it. I originally didn't want to mess around trying to source a good linear PSU for the Pro3A. But, - your recommendation carries a lot of weight with me: & the ability to use a really nice external PSU makes good sense.
> 
> Thanks again for your detailed comments....


 
 you can run the pro3a off usb power...
  
 for instance.. my paul hynes SR3 powers my usb port so.....its awesome
  
  
 it was quite good with the teradak dc30w for "cheap" but not as good...although....way better than the breeze. and linear power levels of noise are very low.
  
 the breeze whether bingzi or talema is a small diff compared to going to full linear ultra low noise. there is a "cheap" psu i'll post later on that is rated 20uV noise
  
 anyhow...
  
 i would still get the pro3a over breeze with no question.
  
 its cheap too, that helps.
  
  
 the teradak dc30w isn't great with noise...likely around 1mV of noise.
  
 the new ifi usb 3.0 is what the guy I sold my pro3a is using...very damn good! 
  
 but that little ifi wall wart thingy claiming to have 1uV of noise might be worth trying, but it's NOT linear, its switching and uses some kind of elimination noise circuit.  Seems odd to me but maybe is ok for digital stuff, not likely for analog. who knows. I didn't like the one I played with. also hums. BUT CHEAP. definitely worth a shot to start out if you want to keep prices low!
  
 -T


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## robertsong

sealykojac said:


> I've been going back and forth with Breeze directly regarding the faulty DU-U8 I received through Aliexpress. At this point I'm just asking for my money back minus their shipping costs and walking away. Still don't know if that will happen but don't want to pay return shipping to China. Mine adds a lovely snap, crackle, pop to audio. There were at least three other people with similar issues with DU-U8's on the previous thread.


 
  
  
 I would definitely buy a Breeze DU-U8 from hifikit.
 He tests them w/ the upgraded 120v Talema transformer.
  
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Asynchronous-XMOS-U8-I2S-audio-usb-device-support-DSD-Digital-audio-system-/262010528369?hash=item3d010b6271:g:0xsAAOSwyQtV0u-G
  
  
  
 Also, there appears to be a new Breeze unit that uses external power. May be worth checking out. I never realized this before.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-XMOS-U8-Asynchronous-USB-to-Coaxial-Optical-SPDIF-192K-upgrade-TCXO-0-1PPM-/261932067307?hash=item3cfc5e29eb:g:hLoAAOSwk0pVf9O-


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## robertsong

robertsong said:


> Well I just got the Crystek 957's and I successfully replaced the stock Breeze DU-U8 clocks. I hear a subtle difference but too early to tell if better or worse. I'm gonna give them some burn-in time. Will report back soon.


 
  
 Update on the Crystek clocks after roughly 70-80 hours on each clock. My judgment could be off since it's been 8 days, but I really think that the Crystek's are an improvement over the stock TXCO's. Certainly not a BIG difference, but significant. What I'm hearing is a slightly smoother sound and better spacialness. Maybe a little bit more high freq detail too. For $80 it may not be worth the upgrade for some. Tough call, but I'd recommend it more for the hard-corp listeners.
  
 Overall, I'm thrilled with the sound of DU-U8 (with $120 worth of upgrades & Cerious Graphene Extreme PC) feeding my LIO.  I have a Luckit WaveIO board coming in the mail next week so I'll compare them soon.


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## robertsong

bimmer100 said:


> but the pro3a is clearly the best ddc for the money. My DIU8 is just as good but also 3 times the price, and it's only as good after I upgraded to crystek 957's....soon I will try NDK's (this weekend). anyhow, i'm not interested in the new melodious, as it doesn't have hdmi i2s. neither does the pro3a. SO..... i sold my "yellow" pro3a to another headfi member who absolutely loves it paired with his Theta Gen V .  The pro3a is fantastic with coax, and preferably a very good coax cable.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, why did you sell the Pro-3A if you felt it was the best? Why does a DDC have to HDMI I2S if coax sounds better? Seems like it would have been better to sell the DIU8, no?
  
 Edit: After reading your post again it appears you like DIU8 just as much as the Pro-3A. My apologies. But back on the first page you have the Pro-3A rated well ahead of the DIU8????


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## bimmer100

robertsong said:


> Out of curiosity, why did you sell the Pro-3A if you felt it was the best? Why does a DDC have to HDMI I2S if coax sounds better? Seems like it would have been better to sell the DIU8, no?




Says right in my quote why I sold it. It doesn't have HDMI i2s.
I still feel HDMI i2s is the best interface to my master11 Dac. And after upgrading my diu8 with 957's it was damn near impossible to distinguish any differences between the pro3a, and the diu8 was smoother operating that the pro3a . Coax sounds different to me, and is way to picky with latency. I2s definitely seems lower latency as I can turn all buffering off in jriver and keep latency ultra low. So if I'm using the jriver dsp it increases latency even more, such as sonarworks. If i am gaming, latency is so bad that the speech is out of sync with the graphics. Drives me bonkers. So HDMI i2s or nothing.


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## robertsong

bimmer100 said:


> Says right in my quote why I sold it. It doesn't have HDMI i2s. So HDMI i2s or nothing.


 
  
  
 Hmmm sounds like you found your DDC then. Have you tried the Pink Faun I2S pcie card?


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## bimmer100

robertsong said:


> Hmmm sounds like you found your DDC then. Have you tried the Pink Faun I2S pcie card?



I haven't tried it because I'm under the impression i2s is designed for internal use and the longer the run the worse the timing gets. So my HDMI cable is .5meter and as long as you'd want to go. If I had a pink faun card, it would need at least 1meter or more of cable to reach to my computer. And pink faun i2s cards are pretty old right? I suppose I can revisit them to be sure. Last time I checked I recall it being less than impressive for some reason or an other. I basically wrote it off. 

The diu8 has more input and outputs than any DDC, as well as excellent power implementation. Rcore transformer and class A non feedback psu, 5 separate ones for each section. It's pretty well designed. Sad that it has mediocre crystals imho. 
But like you said above, the 957's were not a dramatic difference to you but noticeable.
To me it's a big improvement in clarity and sound stage. The stock crystals are quite good in the diu8 and I would say similar to the stock breeze crystals (which are significantly overly rated ) 
I will know more about he breeze when I get a second unit. My first one worked sort of, but made hissing noises and I returned it. Crappy quality control. And on top of it, coax just bugs me. Haha 
I even bought that super fancy audio sensibility SE silver coax cable. But I sold it already... Forgot I will need a good one to test the breeze and ended up ordering a cerious graphene extreme digital RCA cable with cardas connects and also a mad scientist audio graphene heretic digital cable with KLE copper harmony plugs. Will put the two cables to the test! 
I picked up another cerious GE power conditioning cable for my p300 as well. Now have two! One is 5ft and the other 6ft


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## robertsong

bimmer100 said:


> I even bought that super fancy audio sensibility SE silver coax cable. But I sold it already... Forgot I will need a good one to test the breeze and ended up ordering a cerious graphene extreme digital RCA cable with cardas connects and also a mad scientist audio graphene heretic digital cable with KLE copper harmony plugs. Will put the two cables to the test!
> I picked up another cerious GE power conditioning cable for my p300 as well. Now have two! One is 5ft and the other 6ft


 
  
 I received my Cerious Graphene Extreme digital cable (w/ Furutech Rhodium BNC plugs) last week and have been breaking it it. My initial impression with zero break-in was ... WOW.
  
 More on this later.


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## roberto2

Where do you buy Cerious Graphene cables? (Power chords or interconnect)
  
 Thanks,
 Roberto


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## bimmer100

roberto2 said:


> Where do you buy Cerious Graphene cables? (Power chords or interconnect)
> 
> Thanks,
> Roberto


 
 cerious technologies sells them. email Robert Grost. contact info is on their website.
 http://www.cerioustechnologies.com/


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## Albrecht

""designed for internal use and the longer the run the worse the timing gets.""
  
  
 FWIW, that is an assessment long held by my Universal Player/DAC manufacturer.
  
 Thank you again for all of your comments on the Pro3A and various devices. Based on yours and other's input, - there are reliable converters, (my HiFace2 has been bulletproof). I have little doubt that the Pro3a will beat the HiFace, and I'm psyched to give it a go.
  
 Cheers,


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## bimmer100

albrecht said:


> ""designed for internal use and the longer the run the worse the timing gets.""
> 
> 
> FWIW, that is an assessment long held by my Universal Player/DAC manufacturer.
> ...




Which Hiface? The original one was not that great... Reliable is one thing... But performance... Another.

The newest m2tech Evo 2 even uses cheap oscillators. Fortunately for us, technology has changed leaps and bounds above the old m2tech Hiface, Hiface 2, Evo etc. the evo2 I've yet to try, but I've got photos of the pcb layout and I wasn't really sold on it. 
The pro3a should be your Hiface and be quite noticeable.
You saying you doubt it would beat it is surprising to me.
What about the Hiface do you think is good? The Hiface uses cheapo oscillators and poor build quality. Look at this closeup of the Hiface....


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## Albrecht

For sure: I do not doubt that the HiFaceII was way down on your list for a good reason.  I am still using the HiFace2. And I am looking forward the getting the Pro3A, - to test against.
  
 Edit: adding, - I meant that I have no doubt that the Pro3a will beat the HiFace.
  
 Cheers,


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## bimmer100

albrecht said:


> For sure: I do not doubt that the HiFaceII was way down on your list for a good reason.  I am still using the HiFace2. And I am looking forward the getting the Pro3A, - to test against.
> 
> Edit: adding, - I meant that I have no doubt that the Pro3a will beat the HiFace.
> 
> Cheers,


 
 will you be using a linear power supply with the Pro3a?
  
 you'll get the best results... but on usb power it's good. if your usb is super clean power than it should be great!
  
 but most people have 20mV noise on their USB line. that's...uhm. bad.
  

  
 low noise psu's like corsair are around 8-12mV, and thats "acceptable"
  
 cheapo linear psu's like teradak dc30w are around 1mV which is "good"
  
 and high end psu's like Paul Hynes, IFI iUSB 3.0, Mojo, and obviouslys the Uptone Audio JS-2 will have ultra low noise from .1uV - 40uV
  
 anything in the low microvolt range is excellent.
 the pro3a has regulators that are 1uV so it cleans up most of the signal, so feeding it something from a teradak dc30w is usually ideal and will be sufficient for near max performance.
 definitely cheapest route.
  
 I'm going to add a belleson regulator to my Teradak DC30w to get 5uV noise output.  I'm installing a SPJ17 5V regulator. down side is that i'm going to be limited to 5V if I use that regulator. thats ok, I considered using it only for 5V anyhow.  The DC30w is awesome since you can easily switch voltage by opening it up and using the adjustment screw to change voltage. use a voltimeter to verify.


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## Albrecht

Thanks again!!
  
 I am ordering the Pro3A today, - but will likely wait for a bit on the PSU until I see what and how I'll be powering the Sonore microRendu. It has not been released yet, and I currently am just spinning CDs/SACDs. My MacMini died a rather dramatic death & was planning on moving to a network digital file player anyway. So, - I'll consult with Sonore as to whether it would be best to get one power supply to power both, or to get two separate LPSs, or perhaps I can run the Pro3A off of the microRendu's power.
  
 I am "watching" the DC30 in my EBAY list. But, I must admit to being a bit intimidated that I'll get the wrong thing.
  
 Cheers,


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## bimmer100

albrecht said:


> Thanks again!!
> 
> I am ordering the Pro3A today, - but will likely wait for a bit on the PSU until I see what and how I'll be powering the Sonore microRendu. It has not been released yet, and I currently am just spinning CDs/SACDs. My MacMini died a rather dramatic death & was planning on moving to a network digital file player anyway. So, - I'll consult with Sonore as to whether it would be best to get one power supply to power both, or to get two separate LPSs, or perhaps I can run the Pro3A off of the microRendu's power.
> 
> ...


 
 Ask the ebay seller for a DC30W set for 5V output and ask for a DC cable that is 2.5mm inner and 5.5mm outer.
  
 done dilly.


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## Albrecht

Awesome!! Thank you so much!!
  
 Cheers,


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## bimmer100

robertsong said:


> I received my Cerious Graphene Extreme digital cable (w/ Furutech Rhodium BNC plugs) last week and have been breaking it it. My initial impression with zero break-in was ... WOW.
> 
> More on this later.


 

  
 I love HDMI i2s but am excited to give this Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme digital rca/coax cable a try. Purty cable! Although I kind of wish I got it in gold now...silver is cool either way...also comes in red and blue.  It will feed my Vanatoo T1's more than likely. Also have a Mad Scientest Audio Heretic carbon fiber cable to test too.


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## hugoboss

@ Bimmer
  
  i curious about that pro arc 3 u mention but i can only find its on diynhk. where did u get it?
 i am looking at taobao but no luck finding that.
 also  i saw the price at diynhk its really cheap juat below $170, just like the new melodius mxu8 version 1.6 with new case
 i saw some of ur chart , is the new melodius version 1.6 also sound worst than pro arc 3?
 thanks
  
  
 btw i just saw xmos website regarding the new x core 200
 the link is here
  
 http://www.xmos.com/blog/xmos/post/xcore-64-bit-accumulator-and-memory-bus
  
 i quote some from there which i see this x core 200 is a interesting chipset
  
 XMOS xCORE-200 devices are built around a 32-bit fixed point architecture, which includes a 64-bit accumulator for enhanced dynamic range. This architecture was chosen because it gives flexibility to implement many different forms of fixed-point and integer arithmetic efficiently.
 In addition to the raw 32/64 bit performance of the xCORE-200, the device family can scale in terms of processor cores and MIPS. At the lower end the 8-core 500 MIPS device (250 MMACS sustained) is ideal for High Resolution stereo audio I/O and processing applications, while the high-end 32-core 2000 MIPS device (1000 MMACS sustained) can support up to 64 channels of time division multiplexed (TDM) audio.


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## bimmer100

hugoboss said:


> @ Bimmer
> 
> i curious about that pro arc 3 u mention but i can only find its on diynhk. where did u get it?
> i am looking at taobao but no luck finding that.
> ...





I assume you are talking about the dxio pro3A. Which is exclusive to DIYinhk since they produce it. It will be hard to beat for the price! Usually what I would still recommend to anyone who wants ultimate bang for buck. And consider getting a decent linear psu for it, especially if your USB power is dirty. But the regulators on board are quite good. rated for 1uV of noise. The NDK's are pretty much the best oscillator all around. The crystek957's are really similar and about as good, just a little different.


----------



## bimmer100

Recently I had taken on the project to mod my audio-gd DIU8 and get the most out of it and it's great design. I love that it has more practical use than other designs. It includes for outputs and inputs than any other DDC on the market. I prefer i2s HDMI as well.
The stock diu8 was pretty good, albeit behind the pro3a in detail retrieval. But the diu8 modded win crystek 957's quickly jumped up about 2-3% to get closer to the pro3a at the point it's hard to tell which one is better. I recently went a step further and modded the DIU8 with the infamously hard to solder NDK oscillators. They are audibly the best oscillator, especially in the bass region. Check out the comparison of NDK's, crystek 957 and ocxo oscillators. The graphs show how impressive this tiny little guys are. The downside is how difficult they are to solder. I've found the only way to solder them with with a hot air gun and sra low temp solder paste. Otherwise.... They burn up in a flash due to their strict solder reflow process and uber sensitivity to heat.... Obviously they are small and can't handle much.


I also added to the adapter boards a really good murata 1% bypass cap... Even tinier than the NDK's. Photos can show a good comparison of the stock crystals on the diu8, crystek and NDK's. As well as the bottom of the board with the little murata bypass caps. 

Anyhow. How does it sound? Well I'm keeping the NDK's! They are my preference, although the 957's are pretty darn close.

Modding is a bit of fun. If you just want the performance and don't care about input and outputs, the pro3a is a good route. Albeit to get the most out of it, I highly recommend to not use USB power. Get linear power. 2.5mm/5.5mm DC 5V is sufficient.


----------



## hugoboss

@ bimmer yes i refer to that diyinhk product.
  
  
 today i found another ddc these one using xmos plus fpga procesosor xiliink sprtan i think
 and it can use eksternal linear psu ,
 any expert here can u see the component inside and the crystal is that good component inside?
  
 the link
 http://world.taobao.com/item/35754687661.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.WeHBHA#detail
  
  
 the pic
  



  
  
 spec is
24BIT USB transferoptical fiberCoaxial AES / EBU digital interface
HIGH-END decoder and PCHIFI perfect combination
 
Technical Specifications Features
Use XMOS USB top chip
Using 1.0PPM TCXO
FPGA phase-locked loop jitter-less Function
USB Audio 2.0 (high speed)
*High accuracy active crystal + FPGA** clock circuit efficacy*
WaltzdigitalUsing a high-accuracy temperature compensated crystal oscillator 13M 22.5792M 24.576M crystal clock accuracy rate 1PPM  precision audio oscillator digital transmission provides an accurate clock sourcePhase-locked loop circuit utilizes the efficacy of complex logic circuitsWhen the total elimination of jitter
Support 192khz / 24bit
Provide ASIO / WASAPI drive
*High-quality filter capacitor*
Waltz digital using OS-CON high quality filter capacitor, the elimination of power supply noise, providing clean power for high-quality output music.
 
Support AES / EBU


----------



## Janis

Hi,
  
 does XMOS require Vbus from source (PC)?


----------



## hugoboss

yes almost all xmos require 5volt . except some ddc that can use eksternal psu 5volt


----------



## abartels

bimmer100 said:


> Recently I had taken on the project to mod my audio-gd DIU8 and get the most out of it and it's great design. I love that it has more practical use than other designs. It includes for outputs and inputs than any other DDC on the market. I prefer i2s HDMI as well.
> The stock diu8 was pretty good, albeit behind the pro3a in detail retrieval. But the diu8 modded win crystek 957's quickly jumped up about 2-3% to get closer to the pro3a at the point it's hard to tell which one is better. I recently went a step further and modded the DIU8 with the infamously hard to solder NDK oscillators. They are audibly the best oscillator, especially in the bass region. Check out the comparison of NDK's, crystek 957 and ocxo oscillators. The graphs show how impressive this tiny little guys are. The downside is how difficult they are to solder. I've found the only way to solder them with with a hot air gun and sra low temp solder paste. Otherwise.... They burn up in a flash due to their strict solder reflow process and uber sensitivity to heat.... Obviously they are small and can't handle much.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi Bimmer,
  
 Very nice job! Finally the long awaited comparison between the Crystek's and NDK's, and, yes, as expected, the NDK's DO sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks for clearing this up for us!
  
 Btw, I can't see the decoupling caps on the NDK pcb's, did you put them on the bottom of the pcb? They need o.01uF
  
 Keep up the good work,
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## bimmer100

abartels said:


> Hi Bimmer,
> 
> Very nice job! Finally the long awaited comparison between the Crystek's and NDK's, and, yes, as expected, the NDK's DO sound better :wink_face:
> 
> ...




I used http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Murata-Electronics/GRM2195C1H103FA01D/?qs=llZZn2%252bGHG7fuZsd9N3alg%3D%3D

1% tolerance 50V 0.01uF muratas. A fine little bypass cap for this project. Many have used ones with 5% tolerance, but went with these guys this time. I have many different pcbs board for dip14 sockets... Some rhea, some from Ian at DIY, but I kinda like the rhea boards the most. 
Really the hardest part of this project was to mount dip14 sockets to that audio-gd xmos board with smaller traces for smaller oscillators. It worked quite well with low temp solder paste and 3mm tip hot air. Takes a bit of precision. 


You can see the other components around the oscillators are in the way for a direct connect. Hence the long lead dip14's with customs bent pins are needed. Fortunately the ones I bought allowed for bending without much loss in strength. They feel very secure now.


----------



## sealykojac

I did reach an agreement from Breeze where they refunded me the full purchase price minus shipping for my faulty DU-U8 and I did not have to ship it back to them. So being out just shipping and getting to keep it I cracked it open to see if I could see anything obviously wrong inside but nothing jumps out. I will add that even with the crackles and pops you can noticeably tell this has better bass and clarity than my Gustard X12 run off its USB.


----------



## robertsong

sealykojac said:


> I will add that even with the crackles and pops you can noticeably tell this has better bass and clarity than my Gustard X12 run off its USB.


 
  
  
 It's totally true. Sound quality is several steps above.
  
 To me, the Gustard sounded extremely veiled in the high freq's. I only had it for about a week.


----------



## BrainFood

...........................


----------



## hgpsemaj

I found some commercial gimmicks in TaoBao today:
  
 Q-1  Xmos/XU208 @RMB239.00 each,

  
 Q-1S  Xmos/XU208 @RMB239.00 each,

  
 X-1  Xmos/XU-208 @RMB369.00 each

  
 F-1  Xmos/XU-208 @RMB999.00 each


----------



## hugoboss

very nice found i translate some of the f1 specs
  
*F-1 The reason why high-end positioning, primarily using three black & Technology:*

*1, full isolation technology, 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;*

*2, source synchronous technology and CPLD shaping technology, I2S signal isolation after the re-shaping; thus eliminating the isolation chip to bring added jitter;*

*3, the independent development of the system clock, usingfemtosecond CRYSTEK custom clock, ultra-low phase noise, low jitter.*

 

*i will wait until this xmos new x200 to become available in full working unit *

*seems like this is worth to wait the next gen of xmos*


----------



## robertsong

There is a cheaper USB powered Breeze for those looking for a bargain. Probably the best available at that price.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## uncletim

Any idea with USB 3.0 on macbook? so far it only sees built-in TE7022, does not see C-Media 6631a. diyinhk couldn't answer that question. thanks.


----------



## User471

Anyone had problems with Amanero Combo384 receivers, NEC cards and Linux ? My DAC has the Amanero chipset and my new USB card with the NEC chip won't play, although the card is seen with aplay -l

Other USB cards work fine, just the NEC one (Paul pang audio, JCAT)

Anyone else had this?


----------



## bimmer100

user471 said:


> Anyone had problems with Amanero Combo384 receivers, NEC cards and Linux ? My DAC has the Amanero chipset and my new USB card with the NEC chip won't play, although the card is seen with aplay -l
> 
> Other USB cards work fine, just the NEC one (Paul pang audio, JCAT)
> 
> Anyone else had this?


 
  
 No idea about Linux....
  
 but no issues with windows for my M11 dac and PPA3 OCXO
  
 I did however had to install asio4all to get asio to properly work with Jriver for some odd reason.
  
 But I don't use the Amanero Combo 384 anymore. It just sounds funny compared to other DDC's i've used.


----------



## User471

Thanks for the prompt reply

Someone suggested it was a firmware issue with the Amanero chipset, in which case I will have to go DDC route as I can't see how I can upgrade the firmware in the DAC itself !!

Bit of a pain I can't use my $400 PCI-e USB card though :mad:

So the "best" DDC currently available for sensible money is the Melodius or Pro3A is that right?


----------



## bimmer100

user471 said:


> Thanks for the prompt reply
> 
> Someone suggested it was a firmware issue with the Amanero chipset, in which case I will have to go DDC route as I can't see how I can upgrade the firmware in the DAC itself !!
> 
> ...


 
 Mind you I have not tested any ddc's with linux
  
 I would choose Pro3A for bang for buck. I havent tried the newest melodious yet, but still would lean towards pro3a.


----------



## robertsong

user471 said:


> Anyone had problems with Amanero Combo384 receivers, NEC cards and Linux ? My DAC has the Amanero chipset and my new USB card with the NEC chip won't play, although the card is seen with aplay -l
> 
> Other USB cards work fine, just the NEC one (Paul pang audio, JCAT)
> 
> Anyone else had this?


 
  
  
 Do you have the JCAT card? If so, you should ask those guys about Amanero compatibility. But I can almost guarantee you the DXIO Pro3A will give you a nice upgrade over ANY built-in USB. You can use a Viablue adapter if you don't want to buy a SPDIF cable b/c the Pro3A is super small and light and can hang off the back of a DAC much like a Audiophilleo.


----------



## User471

I don't have the JCAT card, rather the PPA one but I understand they both use the same NEC chipset. I will ask them though thanks for the top tip 

Notwithstanding that I think I will look at the Pro3A as I have heard lots of good things and the cost is reasonable

Cheers


----------



## User471

Just been looking at Pro3a cards and there seems to be more than one! Which one should I be considering for best quality please?


----------



## robertsong

user471 said:


> Just been looking at Pro3a cards and there seems to be more than one! Which one should I be considering for best quality please?


 
  
 You should email them because it looks like they currently sold out.
  
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/97-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wmanual-power-switch.html


----------



## sealykojac

robertsong said:


> You should email them because it looks like they currently sold out.
> 
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/97-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wmanual-power-switch.html


 
  
 I got my order in for one yesterday and they emailed me saying it was shipped. So I may have snagged the last one...


----------



## audioelements

I am re-posting my question here per Alex's suggestion.
  
 I just got a Melodious MX-U8 usb/spdif converter from eBay. It was shipped with DHL express, I got it in 3 days in the US.
  
 It is the new chassis with the round corner, heavy build casting aluminum and looks very nice. The LEDs are too bright. First, I tried it with windows 7, it has some glitches (I have to switch off/on the U8 to let the computer find it). In my speaker system (W4S DAC1-LE/dsd, DIY tube preamp, Dynaco ST-70 amp, B&W N805 speakers), it is better compared to the usb port in W4S DAC. The music sounded sweet and fuller, and just "right" to me. I am impressed, because according to some reviews, the USB with DSD support on the W4S DAC was very decent, on par with some "good name" DDCs.
  
 However, the good news ends here. I have no luck to play any sound from my Cubietruck Linux (Armbian Wheezy arm6hf -> LMS 7.9 -> squeezelite 1.8). The squeezelite could find the U8 when turn on the MX-U8 after linux boot up. But if I reboot the linux when the MX-U8 was on, the linux wouldn't find the U8. The squeezelite could find the U8 again after I power off and on the U8, but still no sound. This linux system had no issues with HiFace Two and the W4S DAC usb-dsd input.
  
 I also tried Daphile and Ubuntu on my Lenovo laptop. The same thing happened. The Daphile sometime can see the U8, but never could make a sound. It is weird, because all three lights including the DSD LED lights up once power up in all Linux systems I tried. I was not playing any DSD files. Even I unplug the USB cable from the unit, the DSD light keeps on, which seem like the XMOS froze. I am not sure I got a 100% working unit.
  
 The "ultimate edition" is mainly the new chassis (cost more) with the same version 1.7 board. I talked to the designer, Mr. Liu at Taobao store yesterday night. He had no idea regarding to my problem. By the way, he confirmed with me that the MX-U8 is 100% compatible with Linux before I put the order.
  
 Anyone used the MX-U8 1.7 with Linux? It seems not a "setting" thing similar to the drives for Windows. Both my Hiface Two (XMOS chip) and W4S usb (Amanero?) had no issues with Linux. I appreciate your inputs. Is Gustard U12 compatible with Linux?


----------



## User471

I don't think that 'compatible with linux' means quite what we all think

What it actually seems to mean is more like 'compatible with certain builds of certain Linux kernels with certain extensions and then only on certain DACs or USB/S/PDIF converters with certain USB input boards'

So my PPA USB board with Daphile would not work with one DAC I have with an Amanero input but did with another and one with an XMOS chip

Because there are so many DACs out there and so many subtlety different implementations of Linux it is impossible for a manufacturer to absolutely guarantee that a given combination will work

_caveat emptor_ as they say


----------



## abartels

Yesterday my ControlPC died hardware wise, not planning to build a new system since I think there are better options instead of Windows/Linux - U S B  systems.
  
  
 If reading all those reports on Intona/Uptone/iFi/W4S/ one get's the nasty feeling USB is NOT the way to go for.
  
  
 Since Server 2012, in DualPC setup, JPlay and AO walked into my life there has changed a lot. First of all, Server 2012 in comporison to Windows 7 was a huge improvement.
 And, testing all the DDC's, they finally got me building my own USB DAC.
  
 2 Weeks ago my isolated XMOS suddenly stopped working, and, finally I had to remove the external 5V and use USB power again. Not so funny,,,,,
 And, yesterday my ControlPC died, not so funny either,,,,,
  
 I am realy convinced I2S is the way to go, especially it's the native data format for dac chips. It's just that one has to be VERY carefully to use as short as possible wiring, shielded if possible.
  
 Last weeks I read a lot articles about Raspberry Pi, and HifiBerry DAC+ Pro. It can derive I2S directly from system, so no other hardware needed. HifiBerry DAC+ Pro has it's own clocks on board!
 Seems this possibly could be a killer, and, it surely is VERY cheap!!
  
 There are several software possibilities to use with RPI, including clients for Android and MAC OS, so you can use your handheld as a remote control device.
  
 There are many reports of people who had DualPC setup, with lots of expensive cabling, filters, expensive software, expensive hardware, and those reports tell us RPI sounds much better.
 I will compare with RPI definately, still have an i7 laptop with server 2012 and AO/JPlay which I can configure as ControlPC, and compare with RPI.
  
 Will keep you guys informed if it really is the way to go, exciting times,,,,,,


----------



## hgpsemaj

It looks neat:
  
 HifiBerry DAC+ Pro


----------



## User471

I can see USB in and RCA analogue out, but where is I2S ??


----------



## hgpsemaj

For your information:


----------



## User471

HDMI ?


----------



## hgpsemaj

I've been advised not to connect the RPI with the PC via USB, but Ethernet. 
  
 It seems HDMI is for video purpose.


----------



## hgpsemaj

It looks like an alternative to HifiBerry DAC+ Pro
  
  
IQaudIO Pi-DAC+


----------



## Caper

robertsong said:


> There is a cheaper USB powered Breeze for those looking for a bargain. Probably the best available at that price.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 I am looking for a converter and was aiming for the Pro3A.
 Since it´s currently sold out I ordered this one, thanks for the tip!
  
 Anyone bought from this seller?
 Transferred money through Paypal 2 day´s ago and after that sent him or her a message about where to find driver.
 No answer to that message and no tracking number since it´s not shipped yet.


----------



## abartels

user471 said:


> I can see USB in and RCA analogue out, but where is I2S ??


 
 you have to solder it onto the pcb


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Yesterday my ControlPC died hardware wise, not planning to build a new system since I think there are better options instead of Windows/Linux - U S B  systems.
> 
> 
> If reading all those reports on Intona/Uptone/iFi/W4S/ one get's the nasty feeling USB is NOT the way to go for.
> ...




I think you are on the right path and wish you luck. Btw, bought a zatoo x6 recently and the lil thing sounds unexpectedly good over hdmi & marantz receiver. 
However you may wanna give up on the RPi and look for better boards. The clocks are quite basic and a pretty serious issue. See https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/raspberry-pi-b-digital-audio/. 
Not sure about the latest rpi3 model but there are lots of people trying similar boards on dyiaudio.com. 
Have fun!


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> It looks like an alternative to HifiBerry DAC+ Pro
> 
> 
> IQaudIO Pi-DAC+


 
  
 It looks neet but seems to have no I2S - OUT option, and that is what we need


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Yesterday my ControlPC died hardware wise, not planning to build a new system since I think there are better options instead of Windows/Linux - U S B  systems.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Prot,
  
 RPI itself has 19.2mHz clock only, so the audio clock is jittery, but, when using HifiBerry DAC+ Pro, it has it's own, low phase noise, xo's.
 And, they are software switched, so only one xo is working when listening to a track.
  
 Only drawback: 192kHz max support


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Hi Prot,
> 
> RPI itself has 19.2mHz clock only, so the audio clock is jittery, but, when using HifiBerry DAC+ Pro, it has it's own, low phase noise, xo's.
> And, they are software switched, so only one xo is working when listening to a track.
> ...




That is of course a much better combo. But this looks even more interesting https://www.hifiberry.com/digiplus/. A better board with xmos, superclocks and i2s output might be ideal. 

Btw, do you know what kind of conn to rpi is used by those boards? Is that some sort of direct pcie line to the cpu?


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Prot,
> ...


 
  
 HifiBerry Digiplus has SPDIF only, so NO I2S output, and no good clocks. DAC+ Pro has very good clocks and I2S output. No need for XMOS (XMOS is for USB), I2S is as basic as possible and best.
  
 Don't know the design of RPI, but connector is a 26 pole header with all the signals on it, including I2S direct from cpu. DAC+ Pro connects to this header and reclocks with it's own low phase noise clocks.


----------



## rsbrsvp

DIYINHK will not make the Pro3a any more from what I understand from them. They wrote to me  in an e-mail that within about two months they will have a new and improved converter.
  
  
 I think we should sit back and wait.


----------



## Caper

Yeah, received same mail from them.
  
 "quote"
 We should have a new usb to spdif converter based on the new 16 core xmos chip. I hope it can be available in two month.
 Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
  
 If anyone here is willing to sell me a Pro3a I would be happy to buy it.
 Pretty sure it´s more than enough for my system.


----------



## hugoboss

rsbrsvp said:


> DIYINHK will not make the Pro3a any more from what I understand from them. They wrote to me  in an e-mail that within about two months they will have a new and improved converter.
> 
> 
> I think we should sit back and wait.


 

 i bet that new controller is based on new xmos 200 chipset it will be very interesting the future of usb filter/booster/whatever


----------



## somestranger26

I hope they will put an I2S output on it.


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> HifiBerry Digiplus has SPDIF only, so NO I2S output, and no good clocks. DAC+ Pro has very good clocks and I2S output. No need for XMOS (XMOS is for USB), I2S is as basic as possible and best.
> 
> Don't know the design of RPI, but connector is a 26 pole header with all the signals on it, including I2S direct from cpu. DAC+ Pro connects to this header and reclocks with it's own low phase noise clocks.



I thought that was just a standard Dac board, with analog outputs only. If you can extract the reclocked digital/i2s signal out of it then I guess it's already the ideal device ... and a super bargain. 
Good luck with the project and keep the good news flowing


----------



## prot

DAC 'berries' for everyone 
https://volumio.org/raspberry-pi-i2s-dac-sounds-so-good/


----------



## abartels

My Raspberry Pi 3, including HifiBerry DAC+ Pro, and wooden enclosure will arrive today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Will try this combo on I2S with seperate psu's for rpi - dac+ analog, dac+ digital and seperate psu for xo's.
  
  
 Hope I get time for this coming weekend


----------



## abartels

RPI 3 not received today, just came home and fiddled a bit around with RPI 1B (2usb ports only).
 Installed PiCoreplayer 1.19 and got it working with my USB Dac.
  
 Sounds not bad at all, but in no means comparable to my DualPC setup (Server 2012 / AO / JPlay).
  
 Seems compressed, not that airy, not that big and deep soundstage, notice some listening fatigue, but, I think there would be A LOT of people who were VERY happy with this result 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 RPI powered with 10800mAh battery, all stock, no mods.
  
  
 To be honest, I'm impressed!
  
 VERY curious what I2S from HifiBerry DAC+ Pro on RPI 3 will bring me,,,,,,,,,,
  
  
 To be continued......


----------



## abartels

Today I received all the stuff, couldn't wait to "assemble" it, this is how it looks:
  
 RaspBerry Pi 3
  

  
 HifiBerry DAC+ Pro
  

  
 The Combo
  

  
 In wooden case
  

  
 Will have to cut some holes in it for psu lines and I2S lines, but that will be an easy job to accomplish.
  
 To start with, I will power RPI with 15600mAh battery power.
  
 Since DAC+Pro only has an option to feed Analog side externally, I need to mod the pcb design and change it to feed the DAC+Pro's digital side externally.
 This project is intended to use the I2S connection ONLY, and take NO use of the onboard DAC and analog outputs.
  
 So, at first I will cut-off the 5V needed for analog (removing the 0 Ohm resistor at DAC+Pro). This way the analog side doesn't influence the digital side.
 I have to investigate how to power the DAC+Pro's digital side externally, so it's power is completely isolated from RPI's power.
 It seems I have to cut 3.3V pcb lines, or cut the header from rpi and feed it with 3.3V from 0.8uV ultra low noise psu. Maybe I have to bypass the onboard regulator too.
  
 To be continued.....


----------



## hugoboss

can u share about the pi3, some people said it hot , and can be overheat
  
 here's the link i saw
 http://makezine.com/2016/03/02/raspberry-pi-3-not-halt-catch-fire/


----------



## abartels

hugoboss said:


> can u share about the pi3, some people said it hot , and can be overheat
> 
> here's the link i saw
> http://makezine.com/2016/03/02/raspberry-pi-3-not-halt-catch-fire/


 
  
 Hi Hugoboss,
  
  
 Those measurements were made under 100% CPU load.
  
 I tested my Picoreplayer on Raspberry Pi 1 with 24/196 content and it worked flawless.
 This means RPI 1 has plenty of CPU power to do the job, so will RPI 3.
  
 RPI 3 NEVER will have to use 100% CPU power to play 24/196, so it will NOT run hot.
  
 But thanks for pointing me to this, I will measure temperature when it's running.


----------



## abartels

I wanted to start my RPI project yesterday, sadly Pi does not support SD cards bigger than 32Gb, and I only had a 64Gb MicroSD at hand,,,,,
 In the beginning I thought the device was defective, but then I tested the MicroSD in my older RPI and it didn't work too,,,,
  
 So, today I will buy a small MicroSD (Picoreplayer only needs about 60Mb!!!!!!) and will test it's out of the box SQ.


----------



## hugoboss

any different in sound quality beetwen pi1-pi2-pi3
 since they almost in the same price range.


----------



## abartels

hugoboss said:


> any different in sound quality beetwen pi1-pi2-pi3
> since they almost in the same price range.


 
  I have no idea, I'm also new to Pi.
  
 Btw, there isn't a picoreplayer version available that works with the new Pi3, so I have to park my project until it's available


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> I have no idea, I'm also new to Pi.
> 
> Btw, there isn't a picoreplayer version available that works with the new Pi3, so I have to park my project until it's available




That pico os looks like a very good option. 

But why stoping such an interesting project?! Any RPi linux distro with a player like mpd should be more than enough for initial sound tests. And there are many 'audio' distros out there .. volumio, runeaudio, moode, archphile, etc. They are all much 'fatter' but you do get various goodies like lowlatency/realtime kernels, UI goodies, remotes, etc.


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > I have no idea, I'm also new to Pi.
> ...


 
  
 All those distributions don't support Pi3 yet, so just have to wait,,,,,


----------



## Caper

I am waiting on 2 usb/spdif converters, shipped from China.
 One Gustard U12 and then this one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I am hoping for better sound quality, using USB from my PC to my amp/dac.
  
 Today I ripped a couple of tracks with dbpoweramp as wave files and played  them with Jriver using wasapi.
 Playing same cd from a 10-15 year old (pioneer) dvd player connected through digital coax and made an a/b comparison.
 The result was surprising, the old dvd player spanked the computer really bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So much crispier and full of details, the bass was also a bit tighter.
  
 Is this because of a bad usb input on my amp/dac?
 Can I hope for same result as the pio when my converters arrive?
  
 Done what I can to optimize the computer and also connected a Jitterbug on the pc usb port.
 Also connected a Aqvox usb psu to my dac to get cleaner signals to my dac.
  
 Pretty dissapointed the old dvd player was so much better than the pc.


----------



## Jerryfan

caper said:


> I am waiting on 2 usb/spdif converters, shipped from China.
> One Gustard U12 and then this one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> I am hoping for better sound quality, using USB from my PC to my amp/dac.
> ...




I'm looking forward to your findings.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Perhaps somebody here can help me out. have a MX-U8, but it must be on an older driver 2.19.0.0 from 2014. I e-mailed Shenzhenaudio and of course they sent me links in Mandarin to a new driver. It was nice of them, but I don't read Mandarin. Does anybody have a direct link to the driver they can provide me? I'm running Windows 10. Thanks.


----------



## Muziqboy

Check your pm!


----------



## Jerryfan

Has anyone heard the MX-U8 ultimate? Compared to the breeze? I'm looking to upgrade my Yulong U18


----------



## Muziqboy

I was using the older MX-U8 which I upgraded the clocks to Crystek's and was very amazed at the detail retrieval it does until a local head-fier let me use the DXIO-PRO3A.
 It uses the NDK clocks and what I heard was a much more better detail retrieval compared to the MX-U8 so I ended up buying it and that's what I'm using in my system now.


----------



## abartels

caper said:


> I am waiting on 2 usb/spdif converters, shipped from China.
> One Gustard U12 and then this one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> I am hoping for better sound quality, using USB from my PC to my amp/dac.
> ...


 
  
 Yes it is, external DDC will surprise you


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> All those distributions don't support Pi3 yet, so just have to wait,,,,,


Not ootb yet but the digging seems simple enough
http://www.runeaudio.com/forum/the-raspberry-pi-3-t3256-10.html#p12032

And btw, why not just using a default rpi distro (e.g.rasbian) for testin? IIUC the berry dacs should work. And if not it should be ppssible to use the archfile script/config http://archphile.org/howto/i2s-dacs-and-the-raspberry-pi/

P.S. I'll prolly buy a rpi and maybe support you with the software side a bit if needed. But right now your dutch neighboirs are keeping me extremely busy


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > All those distributions don't support Pi3 yet, so just have to wait,,,,,
> ...


 
  
 Hi Prot,
  
 Bought an RPI2b today, will receive it tomorrow and start project. RPI3 can follow later on,,,
  
 This evening I will investigate to power the DAC+Pro's Analog AND Digital externally. At first I will be using 3.3V for Digital circuit INCLUDING clocks, will seperate them later (need to order an extra psu)
  
 But, thank you anyway for suggesting to help me, much appreciated!
  
  
 Keep up the fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alex


----------



## Sonic Defender

caper said:


> I am waiting on 2 usb/spdif converters, shipped from China.
> One Gustard U12 and then this one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> I am hoping for better sound quality, using USB from my PC to my amp/dac.
> ...


 
 That seems very odd, I suspect you have simply been using the DVD player for a long time and your hearing brain is acclimated to the sound signature. I went right from $1000 plus CD players to using a 8 year old Dell desktop straight into a Schiit Gungnir with a regular old USB cable I took from a printer. It sounded fine, never heard any difference I could note. I put a MX-U8 into the mix about a year back and connect to my M51 via AES and still I'm not sure if there was any change or not. I really think you should get a friend to help you do some blind listening testing after you have used the computer for at least a solid week, take the DVD player right out of your chain. People really forget how the brain works and refuse to consider that a highly probable and simple explanation such as brain burn-in should always be eliminated first with real testing.


----------



## abartels

sonic defender said:


> caper said:
> 
> 
> > I am waiting on 2 usb/spdif converters, shipped from China.
> ...


 
  
 I think the first question we should ask is:
  
 What kind of USB-Amp/Dac are you using? Maybe it has an awfully implemented USB-interface, that could explain very easily why the old DVD player's spdif output performed better than the USB interface.


----------



## Sonic Defender

abartels said:


> I think the first question we should ask is:
> 
> What kind of USB-Amp/Dac are you using? Maybe it has an awfully implemented USB-interface, that could explain very easily why the old DVD player's spdif output performed better than the USB interface.


 
 I thought of that, but what could be worse than the cheap Dell USB ports on my computer? If they were/are (I'm still using it now) capable of passing perfectly good USB data what are the odds any DAC/amp is going to perform worse? I guess it is possible.


----------



## abartels

sonic defender said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > I think the first question we should ask is:
> ...


 
  
 Hi Sonic Defender,
  
 You probably are missing the point.
  
 Caper probably has a Digital AMP, an amplifier with built-in DAC. He can connect thru SPDIF, OR he can connect thru USB.
 The quality of the SPDIF interface PROBABLY exceeds the quality if THE AMPS's usb interface.
  
 That is why we have this kind of thread, just because we want to connect to a pc with usb, and want to have the highest sound quality possible.
 So, we are using a digital interface, which replaces the devices built-in digital interface.
  
 So, if he says his spdif, connected to an old dvd player, sounds much better, then we must conclude that:
  
 1- the Amps USB interface is horrible, and yes, they were horrible in the past
 2- his pc has lots of troubles delivering a good usb signal.
  
 I opt for number ONE.


----------



## Sonic Defender

abartels said:


> Hi Sonic Defender,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Those options are yours are plausible, maybe even likely, but we really don't have enough information so both of us are speculating, which is fine, that's part of the fun. I still say that my suggestion while speculation is equally plausible and I do have direct first hand experience so at least I'm not just putting out an opinion without some experience to base it on. Please note I'm not saying you don't, I just mean we all know sometimes people post really differing opinions and when pushed you find out they haven't themselves heard the device in question firsthand.


----------



## Caper

Ok guy´s, time for some more info about my system.
  
 Intel NUC i3.
 Audioquest Jitterbug connected at usb port.
 Supra USB cable.
 Aqvox USB linear psu.
 Hegel H80 Amp with integrated DAC.
 Supra PLY speaker cables.
 Klipsch RP 160M bookshelf speakers.
 XTZ 10.17 Subwoofer.
 Dspeaker antimode 8033 cinema.
  
 Running W7 64.
 Musicplayer Jriver using wasapi.
 This is not a dedicated music pc but plays all my media at home, TV included through MCE.
 I have also tried running a bootable Linux version(/tahrpuppy)from USB just to see if that gives better sound, it play´s even with my W7 setup.
  
 I havent owned a cd player in 20 years time 
 Been running htpc for a really long time.
 Been quite happy how the system sounds until yesterday when I borrowed my friends 10 years old Pioneer dvd player, connected to my Hegel amp/dac.
 Ripped a couple of tracks with dbpoweramp, as wave files with no compression.
 Then compared the Pioneer playing same track from CD and at the same time my pc playing same track from ssd drive.
 Switching input made me drop my jaw really!
 The old Pio dvd player play SO much better, evem my wife that is not interested say the difference is huge.
 I am not imagining this.
  
 As a final test I booted up the Linux usb stick and compared, same difference in sound.
  
 Much crispier, detailed and also a bit better bass...more controlled bass.
  
 As I understand Hegel has a 75 ohms impedance correcting on atleast coax1, maybe also coax2.
 That is for sure good but I would NEVER though it would sound so much better with a 10-12 year old dvd player through coax.
 In my mind this should mean the Hegel has a pretty bad USB input.
 Maybe I am wrong but waiting on my usb/spdif converters and then I will compare again to the old Pioneer.
 It´s still in my house, waiting for another comparison.
  
 I hope I explained good enough, my native language is not english.
  
 Edit: I will try my wifes laptop also running on batteries in case my media pc has a problem with usb ports.
 Will try with that linux boot stick.
  
 This is the one:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/719041/audiophile-linux-ap-linux/30#post_12000364


----------



## bimmer100

caper said:


> Ok guy´s, time for some more info about my system.
> 
> Intel NUC i3.
> Audioquest Jitterbug connected at usb port.
> ...


 
  
  
 To be frank, most dac's today have horrid USB inputs. most suffer from 8khz packet noise.
  
 The only product i've found to remove this issue entirely is the Intona USB Isolator. 
  
 I've sold all my jitterbugs, uptone regen, reclockers etc... none compare.
  
 I'm now using the intona that feeds into my modded DIU8 w/ NDK oscillators.. from there the clock is sent out through HDMI i2s directly into my M11 which has the PLL turned off.
  
  
 The intona isolates ground from power AND data at full high speed 480mbps usb. Not even the ifi iusb3.0 does this. Albeit the noise level is less on the ifi iusb3.0
  
 the intona isn't bad at 40-60uV 
  
 Anyhow, I don't use Coax anymore since my gear uses i2s HDMI. MUCH improved over coax imho.
  
  
 albeit i've got some damn good coax cables i've used like the Graphene Extreme from cerious technologies, as well as the MSA Herectic carbon fiber coax (pure carbon fiber wire). Both are quite good! But I still gravitate back to HDMi i2s.
  
 I've not heard any good DDC's other than the DIU8 modded with NDK or the crystek 957's were pretty good. I still prefer the NDK as the low end is tighter and more textured.
  
 my old Gustard U12 (mega modded) is about to go to a new home, as that was a darn good DDC for hdmi i2s....but stock it wasn't any better than the amanero combo 384 and in some regards worse. the voltage reg (lm317) was a noise maker, and also acquired more nosie from usb power.
  
  
 My USB card is clean as it gets. I'm running a Paul Pang V3 OCXO usb 3.0 card that is powered by a Paul Hynes SR3 (20uV peak to peak) along with an ifi dc purifier 1uV.
  
 nada damn chirp on USB noise (power)....yet I have the intona to isolate and basically I don't need the fancy USB or powered usb anymore. I found that it works quite well on normal USB ports if I'm using the intona! since it reclocks, isolates power and data! and also outputs ultra low noise-  once it gets to my DDC (ground isolated as well) the signal is pure with no packet noise and then is clocked by the NDK's and sent out through HDMi i2s directly to my pcm1704uk's that pickup the clock from the ndk's. the sound is stellar imho.  
  
 I would consider doing mods for people, but the labor is sometimes a bit much. Plus there is the DIY risk of something going wrong...which isnt too often, but possible.
  
  
 I'm interested in the gear people are posting on here yet have wondered what the Pi computers are all about. Nothing i've seen has any high specs for hifi. poor oscillators, generally overall seems like a mediocre source to use. What am I missing?
  
 I'm soon to replace my PC with an LHlabs Source, but my main concern is if the LHlabs will have a DSP like Jriver. That's a big deal to me. I really enjoy tweaking the sound via a DSP like Jriver's. I use Sonarworks for my HD800's and find it to be "required" to appreciate the HD800. and also doing tweaks like the reverse phase adapter to increase transient response and equalize bass output (increasing and tightening bass further in ANY balanced amp) but this requires a DSP to software reverse phase the effects from the hardware 4pin xlr with right channel reversed. Sound crazy? it's not, it's proven to work. I was skeptical and now a ton of local members have done this mod with confidence.
 Jriver is my fav player, and would consider others if they could compare.


----------



## Sonic Defender

caper said:


>


 
 Retracted: this isn't the sound science thread, my apology. Enjoy things and hopefully the SPDIF converter does the trick for you. Cheers.


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> To be frank, most dac's today have horrid USB inputs. most suffer from 8khz packet noise.
> 
> The only product i've found to remove this issue entirely is the Intona USB Isolator.
> 
> ...


----------



## Caper

sonic defender said:


> Retracted: this isn't the sound science thread, my apology. Enjoy things and hopefully the SPDIF converter does the trick for you. Cheers.


 
  I also hope that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks!


----------



## bimmer100

caper said:


>


 
  
  
 Since the pro3a is out of stock...
 the breeze with the optional Talema transformer is the way to go
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/262010528369?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 it's not that expensive.
  
  
 but using a good power cable is critical with this one for some odd reason. Seems sensitive to cables more than most devices...
 my audio gd ddc doesn't care about cables for the most part...but still using a graphene extreme power conditioner cable for my M11 and my DIU8
  
 my LPS paul hynes sr3 has a Maze audio Ref4 carbon.
  
 meh, a good old Pangea AC14SE is a good cable for everything and cheap!
  
 i have 4 of the pangea's  and they power everything else. my p300, computer, my wifes computer and her nfb28
  
  
 I would consider upgrading the breeze clocks with 957 crysteks.
  
 i've got TWO extra pairs of crysteks already installed on adapter boards and with super tight tolerance murata bypass caps.
  
  
 simply installing a dip14 socket to the breeze PCB would allow you to use the 957's
  
  
 or NDK's would be good.
  
 I was supposed to get somebodies Breeze to mod, but never heard from him...will contact him now! I want to play around with the Breeze more
  
  
 I had to return mine as it was defective....but even the pro3a had some issue for some
  
 ANY company can have defects...
 but i'd still say get a breeze duu8 with talema transformer. It's an excellent DDC for the money
  
  
 the PRo3a would be best, but they are releasing a NEW model soon apparently.
  
 sit tight and wait?
  
 the NDK's are awesome FYI
  
  
 my DIU8 is sounding it's best with the NDK's.
  
 a good coax/rca cable seems to be your best route.
  
 optical is a crapshoot depending on if you have good toslink from toshiba i believe...and only one cable i'd recommend. a Lifatec Silflex - real glass fiber (470strands)
 http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html
 this cable surely made toslink sound it's best. but both coax and toslink have their advantages and disadvantages.
  
 I would stick to coax personally...some say toslink if you have grounding issues. I would definitely try both and see what sounds better to you.
  
  
 The intona is pricey, but does wonders for many people with dirty power, mediocre usb etc. It will make your gear sound it's best.
  
 I chose the industrial version as it apparently is slightly more compatible with more usb modules. Some require power and there is a limit to how much the intona will provide after it powers itself. I think it's still likely to support nearly 100%, but some devices need over 400mA and that might be a problem. usb max is 500mA but rarely does an audio device module use that 
  
 A good ddc is always key to a good sounding system imho.
  
 I swear most dac's, even the most high end dacs, have crappy usb implementation.
  
  
 do you have specs on your current USB ?I can look it up and see, or do you have photos to show of the board? oscillators? regulators? etc


----------



## Caper

http://www.audiofidelity.no/uploads/2/4/0/6/24060675/7151780.jpg?709
  
http://www.hifimaailma.fi/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/sisus_hegel_h80_ht_1089.jpg
  
  
 I post the pictures first and then back to what you wrote me.
 Since I am no HiFi guy and english is not my native language it takes some time for me to fully understand what you write 
  
 Thanks!
  
 Edit: Would it do me any good to connect a Intona isolator between pc and spdif converter?
 Intel NUC USB connector-->Cheap USB cable-->Intona-->Supra USB cable-->Breeze-->Oehlbach NF 13 coaxcable-->Hegel H80.
 Was unsure if you mean to use the Intona only with USB input.
 But thinking makes me believe it must be good also combined with spdif converter.


----------



## Caper

Just got an idea that never though of before.
 Since I have a TV connected to my pc through HDMI and optical toslink out from tv I compared that to the Pioneer DVD player on coax.
 Cheapest possible optical cabel between TV and amp/dac.
 Still the old Pioneer plays better, crispier more detail and more controlled bass.
 But I think using optical toslink plays litter better than my USB.
  
 Maybe it´s not that my amp has crappy USB input but superior coax input?


----------



## robertsong

caper said:


> Just got an idea that never though of before.
> Since I have a TV connected to my pc through HDMI and optical toslink out from tv I compared that to the Pioneer DVD player on coax.
> Cheapest possible optical cabel between TV and amp/dac.
> Still the old Pioneer plays better, crispier more detail and more controlled bass.
> ...


 
  
 No, most built USB implementations are poor, as both abartels and bimmer have said.
  
 Have you tried a USB to SPDIF converter yet? This should be a good test. I would be surprised if it didn't make a big difference.
  
  
 Edit: Which USB cable are using? Is it brand new?


----------



## Caper

I am waiting on 2 converters, they are shipped from China.
 Using a Supra USB cable, it´s maybe 2 months old and been playing about 10 hours per day since its my mediarig.
  
 My plans right now:
 PC-->Supra USB cable-->Intona USB isolator-->Supra USB cable-->spdif converter powered by USB-->Oehlbach  NF 13 coax cable-->Hegel H80 amp/dac.
 I hope the converter is ok, powered by usb should be fine because of the Intona USB isolator.
 This is the one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 The Breeze should for sure be fine but wait until the new DXIO Pr03a arrives and see how it seems.


----------



## robertsong

Yup, you should get huge improvement from that.


----------



## bimmer100

caper said:


> I am waiting on 2 converters, they are shipped from China.
> Using a Supra USB cable, it´s maybe 2 months old and been playing about 10 hours per day since its my mediarig.
> 
> My plans right now:
> ...



That DDC from eBay is not that great, not bad though. It's not as good as the breeze duu8 with Talema. Doesn't have the nicer voltage regulators and xpo caps etc. but maybe it will be fine. It's DC and if you feed it super clean power... Even from a cheapo ifi I power plug then it might prove to be excellent.
I personally would upgrade those gold tcxo's. They claim to be .1ppm but that has to be a load of crap. Either a pair of 957's or NDK NZ2520SD's are the way to go. But require some fitting 


I am tempted to start offering premade NDK boards. Seems a lot of people have been asking me for them. I've got the whole process down pretty damn good. 

Oh, and excellent choice on USB cable. I love he supra. I also have a lhlabs2g but am perfectly happy with the supra and would live without the 2G anyday. Wish I could of saved my money. The supra sets the bar high for any USB cable imho. The best bang for buck without question.


And which intona did you get? Industrial version???! Or standard?
Both are good but the owner highly recommended the industrial Version.


Off subject I looked at your Hegel USB and see some super cheapo clocks and uses the old tenor IC as well. I think it might be limited to 24/96! But can't read exact tenor IC Id on it... But those aren't that great. You will love your new DDC. Bypass that crappy USB in the Hegel. It is dated.


----------



## robertsong

bimmer100 said:


> That DDC from eBay is not that great, not bad though. It's not as good as the breeze duu8 with Talema. Doesn't have the nicer voltage regulators and xpo caps etc. but maybe it will be fine. It's DC and if you feed it super clean power... Even from a cheapo ifi I power plug then it might prove to be excellent.
> I personally would upgrade those gold tcxo's. They claim to be .1ppm but that has to be a load of crap. Either a pair of 957's or NDK NZ2520SD's are the way to go. But require some fitting


 
  
 I'm willing to bet that Breeze listed in the Ebay link is better than DU-U8 with the right power. Have you listened to either one of these? The DU-U8's flaw is the soundstage lacks depth due to compression most likely from the AC power supply (not good!). The problem with the cheaper DC model is it only runs on USB power (no external jack) so in Capers' case he will feeding the DDC with a motherboard port's +5V UNLESS he uses the AQVOX (or dual headed cable). I use to have an AQVOX and it will make an enormous improvement in this case. I can't speak about the Itona b/c I haven't paid much attention to it.
  
 As far as the clocks are concerned I think this will trivial be compared to the +5V power issue. I gave my Breeze DU-U8 a very good listen before I upgraded to Crysteks, and I asked myself If I really wanted to swap them out. The gold TXCO clocks sound excellent, but the the Crysteks are indeed even better.


----------



## bimmer100

robertsong said:


> I'm willing to bet that Breeze listed in the Ebay link is better than DU-U8 with the right power. Have you listened to either one of these? The DU-U8's flaw is the soundstage lacks depth due to compression most likely from the AC power supply (not good!). The problem with the cheaper DC model is it only runs on USB power (no external jack) so in Capers' case he will feeding the DDC with a motherboard port's +5V UNLESS he uses the AQVOX (or dual headed cable). I use to have an AQVOX and it will make an enormous improvement in this case. I can't speak about the Itona b/c I haven't paid much attention to it.
> 
> As far as the clocks are concerned I think this will trivial be compared to the +5V power issue. I gave my Breeze DU-U8 a very good listen before I upgraded to Crysteks, and I asked myself If I really wanted to swap them out. The gold TXCO clocks sound excellent, but the the Crysteks are indeed even better.


 
  
  
 the Intona is a bit quieter than the Aqvox actually. likely better with transients and psrr too. but either way, not a HUGE difference...just notable. possibly audible.
  
 the aqvox is around .1mV  (100uV)
 and the intona around 40uV
  
  
  
 so feeding the Breeze DUU8 actually would be insanely quiete from the intona...hence the true ground isolation of power and data!!!!
 only two other devices exist that do this at true high speed 480mbps, low latency and no packet noise.
  
 the only other one worth talking about is the Mutec Mc-3 + usb - which is on par with the intona...except price is over double!!!
  
  
 the 5v power issue isn't an issue with the intona. seriously. if you read about the intona you'd know it wasnt' and issue.
  
 but that's ok. I'm trying to help him out. the intona is a great piece of gear to have. truly is.
  
 as tcxo's are only as good as the power that feed's them.  
  
 So as long as he can clean AC that would be ideal.
  
 maybe that ddc on ebay is good, but I don't know. It just looks cheaply made.
  
  
 the crystek 957's are good, and the NDK's are even better  
  
 no joke. Bass is tighter and more textured. I love bass so the NDK's really impressed me. There isn't a better deal than NDK's too! only around 10each approx. something like that anyways.
  
 BUT, they are a pain to solder unless you have the right tools. which I spent a ton of money on all the right gear to do the job
  
  
 I'm about to start taking orders for NDK's on dip14 boards! haha. I have extra boards, extra crystals etc...but don't want to work for free either. I may consider building them with good tight murata 1% bypass caps.  I have a bunch of Ian's adapter boards from DIYboard and also my fav boards are from RHEA. and RHEA actually makes prebuilt crystek 957 boards! but no bypass caps. Personally I think it's better to run a bypass cap than not. as most tcxo's are close enough to their power supply to make a diff. almost all DDC's are made that way. <shrug>
  
 but consider the intona. it's not hype.  I've tested in on 4-5 diff peoples setups and all of them were blown away with the results. It's a fantastic piece of gear to own.Think of it as the holy grail for making USB function as though it should have this whole time.  The thing manufacturers leave out is the critical plagued issue of usb's packet noise issue of 8khz spikes. It's truly bad for about 99% of usb implementations for audio. The intona may very well have the lowest packet noise of any device.. around -142dB for 8khz noise. compared to the average of -110dB or a fancy fiber optic usb cable can bring the noise down to around -118dB but not even close to what the intona does.
  
 try it yourself though. But keep an open mind.
  
 -T
  
 I was skeptical and didn't hear a HUGE difference in my system considering how damn clean my power is. I did hear it after listening long enough and found the top end to clearly improve a bit.  Not night and day as it was for most of my friends setups. Their dirty ass laptops were like high performance sources with the intona attached. some of them barely recognized their dac! no joke!
  
  
 ps, I forgot to mention that that DDC on ebay has a much lower grade usb clock than the Breeze DUU8.... and possibly the same usb clock that is currently in his Hegel usb module.
 that's the first thing I noticed.
  
 There are several components that are downgraded from the DUU8 with that ebay ddc. It's great it's DC powered though.  But modding the USB clock would be ideal. that happens to be one of the cheaper ones available. Maybe i'm a clock snob.  but i've heard enough ddc's to kinda get a really darn good idea of what to expect based on what components are used.
  
 at least they chose murata da101c's for the output of the coax too.
  
 but I can't tell from the photos if they are using C0G cap for the output. the lighting is tough to tell if it's grey or tan. meh. "maybe grey?"
  
 anyhow, questionable.
  
  
 BUT it does use a great regulator...just found this out... the ADP150 @ 9uV noise.... excellent. not as great as the pro3a of course...but not too shabby.
  
  
 pair this with a good lps and might be sounding pretty good.
  
 just wish the usb clock wasn't so el cheapo


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> That DDC from eBay is not that great, not bad though. It's not as good as the breeze duu8 with Talema. Doesn't have the nicer voltage regulators and xpo caps etc. but maybe it will be fine. It's DC and if you feed it super clean power... Even from a cheapo ifi I power plug then it might prove to be excellent.
> I personally would upgrade those gold tcxo's. They claim to be .1ppm but that has to be a load of crap. Either a pair of 957's or NDK NZ2520SD's are the way to go. But require some fitting
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did not order the Intona yet, want to get the ddc home first and try it out.
 I already have one Aqvox psu and will see if maybe that´s good enough.
 About upgrading the tcox´s, I dont think that´s a job for me because have no such skills.
 The Hegel supports 24/96, not more.
 I hope the ddc makes my hegel shine


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> maybe that ddc on ebay is good, but I don't know. It just looks cheaply made.
> 
> 
> the crystek 957's are good, and the NDK's are even better
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for all info!
 As I am a total rookie about this modding and have no solder experience, how hard is it to switch the clock?
 Maybe I can find one that can help me out if I just buy the stuff I need.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bimmer100

caper said:


> Thanks for all info!
> As I am a total rookie about this modding and have no solder experience, how hard is it to switch the clock?
> Maybe I can find one that can help me out if I just buy the stuff I need.
> 
> Thanks!




No problem. Glad you found some of my post to be useful or informative.

I recommend the intona over any device of its kind. Which are USB cleaners, reclocker , regen, isolators for power. But this intona is one of about 2 or three products that does isolation of the USB data. It uses two Spartan fpga' to break down and rebuild the data from the dirty to clean side.it's a great piece of gear to own if you use USB at all. Simply put, it will give you the most out of your USB.
I have owned everything you can imagine from the Uptone regen, jitterbug, wyrd, etc etc. sold all of them except r wyrd, which is what my wife uses on her setup.
her psu in the computer had a noisy 5v USB line that is around 15mV-20mV
My psu is about 7-9mV and too noisey for me. That's why I got the dedicated Paul Hynes lps for the Paul pang ocxo v3 usb3.0 card... I could of saved a grip of money if I just got the intona. As it lets regular USB ports sound 98-99% as good as with the ppa3 ocxo and Hynes lps. Kinda frustrating. But true.
So that's why I recommend it  check it out! The guts are impressive too.


----------



## Caper

Ok, guess the Intona will be on my purchase list.
 I am not that in to Hi-Fi actually but since I heard the difference between coax and USB on my Hegel I cant just let it be.
  
 I have a friend that had Hi-Fi as interest all his life but he is still uses analog stuff and just shake his head when I went the digital road.
 It would be fun to make him admit my little digital system sounds ok.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Caper

robertsong said:


> I'm willing to bet that Breeze listed in the Ebay link is better than DU-U8 with the right power. Have you listened to either one of these? The DU-U8's flaw is the soundstage lacks depth due to compression most likely from the AC power supply (not good!). The problem with the cheaper DC model is it only runs on USB power (no external jack) so in Capers' case he will feeding the DDC with a motherboard port's +5V UNLESS he uses the AQVOX (or dual headed cable). I use to have an AQVOX and it will make an enormous improvement in this case. I can't speak about the Itona b/c I haven't paid much attention to it.
> 
> As far as the clocks are concerned I think this will trivial be compared to the +5V power issue. I gave my Breeze DU-U8 a very good listen before I upgraded to Crysteks, and I asked myself If I really wanted to swap them out. The gold TXCO clocks sound excellent, but the the Crysteks are indeed even better.


 
 I do have one Aqvox at home and hoping the ddc I ordered will be fine powered by it.
 That´s why I ordered just that ddc.
 If not, propably buy the Intona.
  
 Thanks for all your inputs!


----------



## Caper

_*Edited because of a lot off topic questions that I will move to the right part of this forum.*_
  
 I think everything will be fine when my spdif converter arrives.
 Just found this article about my amp: http://blog.son-video.com/en/2014/03/review-hegel-h80-dac-stereo-amplifier/
 Think Hegels DAC is pretty nice as long as you dont use USB input.
  
 Will let you know my impression when the ddc arrives.
  
 Thank you all!


----------



## robertsong

caper said:


> _*Edited because of a lot off topic questions that I will move to the right part of this forum.*_
> 
> I think everything will be fine when my spdif converter arrives.
> Just found this article about my amp: http://blog.son-video.com/en/2014/03/review-hegel-h80-dac-stereo-amplifier/
> ...


 
  
  
 Yup, you already said so when you tried that DVD player. Give the DDC a good 24 hours of break-in before making an initial opinion. I think the Hegel's DAC is just fine.
  
 And just to be sure you understand, it's not just the Hegel's USB input that is poor. 90% of the DAC's out there can benefit from an external USB (DDC). Manufacturers tend to skimp on this to cut costs. The USB module accounts for roughly half the sound quality. Most people do not understand this.


----------



## Caper

Yeah, after you gave me your inputs on all this I fully understand it.
 I am no Hi-Fi guy but bought my first computer 1989 (Compaq 286 Deskpro) and since then been pretty updated in the computer world.
 That´s why I now also try to integrate a good sounding Hi-Fi system to my htpc.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## abartels

This evening I finished initial setup RPI2b + DAC+Pro over I2S with PiCoreplayer, connected to my DAC.
  
 All connected as is, stock, no mods, power from rpi with 16000mAh battery.
  
 First impression:
  
 Listening fatigue, and not as detailed as I am used to.
  
 Will let it burn-in for a few days and report back.
  
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## Sonic Defender

This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.


----------



## robertsong

sonic defender said:


> This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.


 
  
  
 Just throwing out a guess here, but I don't think messing with clocks is worth it (for most people). What are to trying to accomplish? What sort of things have you tried? What has worked for you, and what hasn't?


----------



## Sonic Defender

robertsong said:


> Just throwing out a guess here, but I don't think messing with clocks is worth it (for most people). What are to trying to accomplish? What sort of things have you tried? What has worked for you, and what hasn't?


 
 Actually I'm just considering the whole idea of modding as a hobby, up to now I haven't done anything. I'm just trying to figure out if all of this talk of clocks making a difference is really just people who love to tinker and don't really care if there is evidence or not that there is audible (testable by blind listening confirmation) improvement. If that is the case I wouldn't bother trying to learn the skills where clocks are concerned, I am interested in changes that have been proven by blind listening tests to make audible differences. Those type of tweaks are worth the time and effort for me. I also get that a large number of DIY advocates simply love doing the work and worrying about evidence isn't what drives them, and that is perfectly fine and equally valid.


----------



## robertsong

No, I can't recommend "modding as a hobby". Not the best place to start. I would suggest looking into some lower priced build kits instead.
  
 I've had lots of soldering experience in building/modding guitar amplifiers. Otherwise I wouldn't have attempted any DDC mods. I'm certain I would seriously screwed something up.
  
 Then again, if you don't mind taking the risk, and potentially paying for a DDC twice or three times, then why not go for it?


----------



## robertsong

> I'm just trying to figure out if all of this talk of clocks making a difference is really just people who love to tinker and don't really care if there is evidence or not that there is audible (testable by blind listening confirmation) improvement. If that is the case I wouldn't bother trying to learn the skills where clocks are concerned, I am interested in changes that have been proven by blind listening tests to make audible differences. Those type of tweaks are worth the time and effort for me. I also get that a large number of DIY advocates simply love doing the work and worrying about evidence isn't what drives them, and that is perfectly fine and equally valid.


 
  
  
 This sort of topic (blind testing) is actually off limits according to the forum rules.
  
 Oh nevermind, that was a different forum: "Due to the flame wars that erupt as a result, this, and the other forums (other than the *Sound Science* forum), are _*DBT and ABX-free zones*_ and posts about either will be moved or deleted. See Jude's original post on the matter."
  
 In my opinon blind/DBT tests are silly. If a difference is that subtle it's not worth fretting over. I definitely do not think the topic of "clocks" is subtle enough to require blind tests. My own findings, of course.


----------



## Sonic Defender

robertsong said:


> This sort of topic (blind testing) is actually off limits according to the forum rules.
> 
> Oh nevermind, that was a different forum: "Due to the flame wars that erupt as a result, this, and the other forums (other than the *Sound Science* forum), are _*DBT and ABX-free zones*_ and posts about either will be moved or deleted. See Jude's original post on the matter."
> 
> In my opinon blind/DBT tests are silly. If a difference is that subtle it's not worth fretting over. I definitely do not think the topic of "clocks" is subtle enough to require blind tests. My own findings, of course.


 
 Yes, I sometimes forget how sensitive an issue that is for some people, my apology as flame wars are really tiring things for sure. Thanks for your thoughts on that, I guess that looking at some kits is actually a good way to get my feet wet. Eventually I would like to turn it into a hobby. Cheers.


----------



## bimmer100

sonic defender said:


> This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.




Clocks will all sound pretty much the same if you your power source is crap. If the source is ultra clean the the higher performance clocks will sound audibly better.
Otherwise don't waste your time and money.


----------



## hgpsemaj

I remember our member pakultra replaced both audio clocks of his U12 with NDK NZ2520SD 3.3V, he mentioned there was acoustic difference after the modification, but the playback difference wasn't day and night.
  
I have a pretty old Meridian 500 CD transport, I've done load of modification on it, and I consider replacing it's audio clock would be the very last modification I should carry out for it. So I replaced it with an OCXO, and feed the OCXO with an external linear power supply. I could clearly hear the acoustic playback difference is huge.
  
I'm so sure, replace my CD transport's audio clock with NDK NZ2520SD 3.3V would also bring out huge playback differences, but I couldn't handle the size of NDK NZ2520SD 3.3V, so I opted for OCXO.
  
I would take a look on the Value of Accuracy and Phase Noise of both old and new clocks before I start the mod job. If the value differences are not considered as significant, then I would put it on pending and think twice.


----------



## abartels

As Bimmer and Hgpsemaj already wrote, indeed do clocks with very low phase noise influence sq a lot, at least when they are powered with very clean psu.
 I used NDK SD's a few times, with very good psu's, and they rock. But, please keep in mind, the better the stock versions sq, the more those crystals will bring you.
 In my U12 the NDK's did bring it to another level, but in my Melodious MX-U8 they brought the device to an unbelievably high SQ level.
 My mod job on the MX-U8 was the most profound one to date, and I really took the best from this device. Still sad that I sold it, but very glad it has a new owner
 who is very happy with it.
  
 Btw, It's not very wise to try building a Porsche motor into an old Volkswagen Beatle, it probably would be better trying to lay your hands on a second hand Porsche in this case....
 Hope you get the point.


----------



## Sonic Defender

abartels said:


> Btw, It's not very wise to try building a Porsche motor into an old Volkswagen Beatle, it probably would be better trying to lay your hands on a second hand Porsche in this case....
> Hope you get the point.


 
 I see the point. So around lets say $200-250 range, what ready made SPDIF converters are there that significantly beat the MX-U8, preferably have a silver case and also provide AES? Thanks.


----------



## abartels

sonic defender said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Btw, It's not very wise to try building a Porsche motor into an old Volkswagen Beatle, it probably would be better trying to lay your hands on a second hand Porsche in this case....
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure since I didn't buy any DDC's since I sold my MX-U8, but rb2013 was very impressed by his Breeze DU-U8 in stock version (over at the U12 thread).
 Think Bimmer can better answer this question for you!


----------



## abartels

Hi Guys,
  
 I just finished my initial RPI2 + DAC+ Pro test setup with LMS (Logitech Music Server) and PiCoreplayer.
  
  
 RPI2 is fed by battery, 5V and 3.3V header pins cut off.
 DAC+ Pro fed externally with 0.8uV noise psu's (both psu's fed by separate shielded R-Core, and both R-Cores fed by separate net filter)
  
 I use I2S output right into my AK4495SEQ dac.
  
  
 First listening impression:
  
 Sounds very good!!
  
 Lots of detail, soundstage at this stage not as big and wide as my previous setup, but it seems it has more body, better tonal balance,
 bass is incredible!
  
 For now I think it really beats my DualPC setup (Server 2012/AO/Jplay) in combination with my built-in isloated XMOS I2S module in DAC.
  
 Will let it burn-in for 150 hours and report back. Think this will be a killer, especially for the money it cost, it's a real bargain!


----------



## hugoboss

what is the brand of your ak4495seq
  
 my dac is aune s16 . which chip is also ak4495seq


----------



## abartels

hugoboss said:


> what is the brand of your ak4495seq
> 
> my dac is aune s16 . which chip is also ak4495seq


 
 It's a modded DIYINHK AK4495SQE, extensively build with 10x R-Core, 11x netfilter, 10 psu's
  

  
 Oh, and yes, I build this myself


----------



## hugoboss

oh my ... never see a dac like that before you sure is xtreme mode. just curious how many ak4495se chip in there are u running dual chip for each channel or just single chip.
 anyway what a behemoth dac ! GREAT


----------



## robertsong

abartels said:


> It's a modded DIYINHK AK4495SQE, extensively build with 10x R-Core, 11x netfilter, 10 psu's
> 
> Oh, and yes, I build this myself


 
  
  
 Where is the actual DAC in that? Can you point it out? It looks like one gigantic power supply.
  
 What's the advantage of running so many transformers?


----------



## prot

sonic defender said:


> This isn't meant as a challenge at all, I'm just really unsure of things. Are people actually able to hear differences in clocks? What mechanisms allow our brain to be that sensitive to miniscule differences? I know it sounds like I'm ripping people, and I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what aspects of a clock difference don't exist in the domain of extremely, extremely small differences in oscillation. I've been trying to research the science of clocks and not finding much besides technical specifications that don't attempt to connect things with audibility. Any information would be really helpful as I find this topic really fascinating. I'm trying to decide if it is worth learning how to do my own modifications, but I'm more an objective than subjective kind of listener in the end. Thanks in advance.




http://pinknoisemag.com/pink-papers/pink-paper-002
Warning ... veeery long article


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I just finished my initial RPI2 + DAC+ Pro test setup with LMS (Logitech Music Server) and PiCoreplayer.
> 
> ...




Sounds encouraging. 
And btw, looks like your Dac went through some changes. Do you plan to rebuild it with an rpi inside? That would be a killer network player


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Glad you got the RPI2 working, there are many useful plugins for the LMS server, I find one of the more useful ones is the SmartMIx, it automatically generates a continuous playlist based on the tracks currently playing.

Support for the RPI3 from software should catch up in the next few months.

If you have UPNP or DLNA device, you might find the bridge plugin useful.

Are you using the DIYINHK isolated XMOS interface ?
I have both the isolated and unisolated one and find the isolated one thins out the bass/mindrange but gives a wide soundstage.


----------



## abartels

robertsong said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > It's a modded DIYINHK AK4495SQE, extensively build with 10x R-Core, 11x netfilter, 10 psu's
> ...


 
 In the upper-right of the pic, that's the dac.
  
 It's all basics for best SQ, which means: every psu rail for dac and other peripherals need their own, galvanic isolated psu, thus for every psu seperate transformer and netfilter.


----------



## abartels

hugoboss said:


> oh my ... never see a dac like that before you sure is xtreme mode. just curious how many ak4495se chip in there are u running dual chip for each channel or just single chip.
> anyway what a behemoth dac ! GREAT


 
 it's "just" running in single chip-stereo mode, but I get the best out of it


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Guys,
> ...


 
  
 There's just enough room to replace I2S USB module with RPI, so, yes, if RPI finally sounds better, I will build it this way.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Guys,
> ...


 
 Hi B0bb,
  
 Thanks for the great tips, will give SmartMix and Bridge a try.
  
 Btw, maybe you can give me some tips to increase SQ? You were talking about removing Alsa mixer, maybe you got som tips or links on how to?
 And, I couldn't find how to disable HDMI output since I don't use it's graphical output it seems a good thing to disable it.
  
 I have lots of DSD DSF and SACD iso's in my library, but LMS/PiCorePlayer doesn't see them at all.
 I did enable the dsdplayer plugin, am I missing something here?
  
 Yes, I used the DIYINHK isolated I2S before giving this rpi a try.
  
 Until now it seems isolated I2S indeed has much wider soundstage, and to be honest, I do miss some blackness, RPI is not that airy, but have to wait till it has it's burn-in hours.
  
 Looks like RPI has much more bass, but not as tight as diyinhk isolated I2S.
 Since my speakers have enormous LF output (about -3db at 20Hz) I prefer tight bass, untill now RPI doesn't provide me with this.
  
 But, again, I'll have to wait till next Sunday for final listening impression.
  
 Thanks in advance,
  
 Alex


----------



## rb2013

abartels said:


> I'm not sure since I didn't buy any DDC's since I sold my MX-U8, but rb2013 was very impressed by his Breeze DU-U8 in stock version (over at the U12 thread).
> Think Bimmer can better answer this question for you!


 

 Just popping in here for a moment - as I see I was mentioned.  Been doing much experimentation and I have to say the Yellowtec PUC2 Lite well fed is the clear winner.  It is AES only - I use a Canare AES to SPDIF adpater with 10dB attenuation. 
  
 Now here is the feeding process - The PUC2 Lite only takes it's power from the USB power.  So I have it fed by a Regen (which has it's own ultra low noise regulators, reclocking, etc..) the Regen is fed by a TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious Graphene Xtreme PC/PB4X4Pro dedicated common and differential AC line isolator and filter.
  
 But here is the magic part that took me weeks to nail down.  Using the excellent iFi DC Purifier between the DC-30W LPS (set to 7VDC) and the Regen.  This nifty little unit works wonders!   Now the Regen is being fed ultra low noise linear power - then the Regen's ultra low noise regulators clean it further - that power and signal is sent to the PUC2 lite...but with one additional step....http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/


> Across the audible range, measured noise is improved by 316x to 100,000x or by 50dB to 100dB respectively.
> Sonically, the background and inner resolution to recordings is brought to the fore and no longer hidden. Sonics are much smoother, just like how good analogue should be. Nothing comes close.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Between the Regen and the Puc2 lite a iFi Purifier2!  Another leap in SQ!  Further noise filtering (both power and data), SI improvement, reclocking, and impedance matching.  Since the Purifier2 reclocks - it's clocks are being fed ultra clean, low noise power from the Regen/DC iPurifier/DC30W/Cerious GE chain.   The iPurifier2 is basically the 'heart' of the iFi iUSB3.0.
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier2/
  
 That finally feeds the PUC2 lite - and the results are truly sota outstanding  A major leap ahead of the DXIO Pro3a. The bass definition and depth is jaw dropping - same for the clarity, focus and stage depth and width.  The DU-U8 and U12 are far back in the rear view mirror...
  
 The rest of the chain PPA2.0 fed by a iFi iPower 1uV power supply>Jitter Bug modded to be a VBUS and USB ground isolator (both cut),> LH labs LightSpeed 2G using only the Data leg>Regen...


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> Btw, maybe you can give me some tips to increase SQ? You were talking about removing Alsa mixer, maybe you got som tips or links on how to?
> And, I couldn't find how to disable HDMI output since I don't use it's graphical output it seems a good thing to disable it.
> 
> I have lots of DSD DSF and SACD iso's in my library, but LMS/PiCorePlayer doesn't see them at all.
> ...


 
  
 If you boot the RPI2 without anything plugged into HDMI it is disabled automatically.
  
 Putting the ALSA mixer into hardware mode effectively bypasses it.
 Put a hw:<device name> in the squeezelite settings.
 This is needed to make DSD playback without clicks.
  
 Also check that that the ALSA Mixer is set for 0.0dB.
 Login to the RPI2 and type in alsamixer.
 Hit F6 to select the correct audio interface.

  
  
 In order to see the DSF files install the DSD player plugin. LMS must be 7.9 or newer for it to work properly.
 Check that the plugin is enabled and running in the Settings->Plugins tab.
 In Settings->Advanced->FileTypes DSF/DFF must be listed for LMS to recognize the files.
  
 Uninstall and re-install if necessary.
  
 I have not seen a plugin that can read ISO files.
  
 On the sound impressions you posted, are you comparing the RPI+DACPro via I2S vs the AK4495 via USB ?


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Btw, maybe you can give me some tips to increase SQ? You were talking about removing Alsa mixer, maybe you got som tips or links on how to?
> ...


 
 Hi B0bb,
  
 I already had the HW device in Alsamixer, so that one was ok. Just have to connect keyboard, mouse and monitor to login and set also to 0dB.
 I noticed that output was decreased in volume, so the 0dB setting probably will solve this, thanks for the tip!!
  
EDIT: Just logged on remotely from work and set alsamixer HiFiBerry DAC+Pro to 100, it was set to 96!
  
 There were no SACD's available within LMS because I hadn't any DSF/DFF files in the library, my mistake. And, I only had a few DSF/DFF albums at another drive.
 Yesterday I started to extract all my SACD-ISO files (remotely from work.....) to DSF files. They are ready now, just have to put them in the correct location 
  
 Yes, I am comparing the RPI+DACPro via I2S to AK4495SEQ vs DualPC setup (2x Server 2012R2 with AudioPhile Optimizer / Jplay6 ) pc's heavily filtered, external fed USB card connected via USB to diyinhk isolated I2S connected to AK4495SEQ
 (And, I have the diyinhk isolated I2S's NDK's fed external with 0.8uV psu's on seperate R-Cores and filters)
  
 Yesterday evening I had only the possibility to listen to it for a very short time, came late at home, but clearly could hear a big improvement since last Sunday afternoon.
  
 Until now it is VERY promising.
  
 Only thing I really would want to try is the Ian (IanCanada) FiFo II Reclocker and Dual XO clockboard. I am very sure this would be the best achievable SQ. But for now I am VERY happy.
 Have to wait till it has had it's burn-in period of 150 hrs.
  
 FYI:
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/207438-ian-asynchronous-i2s-s-pdif-fifo-kit-group-buy-188.html#post4357477
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/192465-asynchronous-i2s-fifo-project-ultimate-weapon-fight-jitter-410.html#post4636448
  
  
 Thanks for the help B0bb!!
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> Only thing I really would want to try is the Ian (IanCanada) FiFo II Reclocker and Dual XO clockboard.


 
 Check with IanCanada to see if the current version works with DSD.
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/207438-ian-asynchronous-i2s-s-pdif-fifo-kit-group-buy-193.html#post4362797


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> ps, I forgot to mention that that DDC on ebay has a much lower grade usb clock than the Breeze DUU8.... and possibly the same usb clock that is currently in his Hegel usb module.
> that's the first thing I noticed.
> 
> There are several components that are downgraded from the DUU8 with that ebay ddc. It's great it's DC powered though.  But modding the USB clock would be ideal. that happens to be one of the cheaper ones available. Maybe i'm a clock snob.  but i've heard enough ddc's to kinda get a really darn good idea of what to expect based on what components are used.
> ...


 
  
 I am looking at usb clock and ndk isn´t available here.
 But found Crystek´s.
 Wich ones to buy?
 http://www.mouser.se/Search/Refine.aspx?N=4292773686&Keyword=CCHD-957
  
 About fitting, any guide how to fit them properly?
 Have a friend that propably could replace them if he just see a guide.
  
 Have not received the ddc yet but can´t be that far away now.


----------



## murphythecat

as I understand, the intona is for galvanic isolation?
 SPDIF is a good galvanic decoupler.
 I think that with a SPDIF dac, the intona would be overkill


----------



## bimmer100

murphythecat said:


> as I understand, the intona is for galvanic isolation?
> SPDIF is a good galvanic decoupler.
> I think that with a SPDIF dac, the intona would be overkill


 
 SO..... SPDIF in general? or are you specifically talking about Toslink.
  
 as digital rca/coax is not good for galvanic isolation.
  
 and the intona does more than power isolation, it does data. and not just 12mpbs galvanic isolation of data, but full 480mpbs galavanic isolation. ON TOP of it all, it removes the horrible 8khz packet noise of usb. 99% of usb suffers from this problem. 
  
 It's simply not overkill and not even comparable to toslink.


----------



## murphythecat

bimmer100 said:


> SO..... SPDIF in general? or are you specifically talking about Toslink.
> 
> as digital rca/coax is not good for galvanic isolation.
> 
> ...


 
 k thanks for clarification
 But if I have a SPDIF dac, do you think its worth it to get a intona? or the ifi purifier would likely be enough?
  
 Rob use ifi ipurifier + regen
 bimmer use the intona.
  
 Wonder what is the best combination for my dac


----------



## abartels

caper said:


> bimmer100 said:
> 
> 
> > ps, I forgot to mention that that DDC on ebay has a much lower grade usb clock than the Breeze DUU8.... and possibly the same usb clock that is currently in his Hegel usb module.
> ...


 
 NDK's are available at diyinhk:
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/35-ndk-nz2520sd-20ppm-ultra-low-phase-noise-oscillator.html#/frequency-22_5792mhz
  
 12mHz for USB cost $6 other frequencies cost $8


----------



## b0bb

caper said:


> I am looking at usb clock and ndk isn´t available here.
> But found Crystek´s.
> Wich ones to buy?
> http://www.mouser.se/Search/Refine.aspx?N=4292773686&Keyword=CCHD-957
> ...


 
 When you get your DDC open it up and take a few photos and post it here, the information about the XO is written on the top of the metal can.
  
 How the XO is mounted will depend on the DDC.


----------



## Caper

b0bb said:


> When you get your DDC open it up and take a few photos and post it here, the information about the XO is written on the top of the metal can.
> 
> How the XO is mounted will depend on the DDC.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 That´s the ddc.


----------



## b0bb

One of each of the following:
 http://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/Crystek-Corporation/CCHD-957-25-24576/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt8zWNA7msRCszyz5S7HO38HmpIyP0JQk0%3d
 http://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/Crystek-Corporation/CCHD-957-25-225792/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt8zWNA7msRCszyz5S7HO38%252b2HbELqV2D0%3d
  
 2pcs socket for the XO
 http://www.mouser.se/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkey1108800
  
 2pcs XO adapter board from www.twistedpearaudio.com
 http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/cronus.aspx
 Scroll to the end of the page, look for Rhea Board (pins installed, no XO) 8.50 USD each
  
 NOTE: The XOs are very close together, check with twisted pear to make sure there is enough clearance, you may have to measure the distance on the unit once you receive it.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Only thing I really would want to try is the Ian (IanCanada) FiFo II Reclocker and Dual XO clockboard.
> ...


 
  
 I emailed with Ian and going to order the FIFO II (NO DSD) with Dual XO II board and isolater board. Seems to be top of the bill.....


----------



## hgpsemaj

When used with the Hermes-Amanero and Cronus, the combination provides full isolation and precision re-clocking of the digital signals.


----------



## abartels

Yes, I know them, but they are not comparable with Ian's fifo reclock. Still, they are a good choice to use too!


----------



## robertsong

> Originally Posted by *b0bb*
> 
> 
> When you get your DDC open it up and take a few photos and post it here, the information about the XO is written on the top of the metal can.
> ...


 
  
  
  
  
  
 Actually, what I think he is talking about there is the USB clock. Even more difficult to upgrade. Either enjoy what you have or get a better DDC in my opinion. I'm really enjoying my WaveIO with NDK's. Sounds very much like the DXIO Pro3A but I'm just going from memory here.
  
 From Romania:
  
 http://luckit.biz/product/waveio/
  
 Still not sure why I'm the only one to have one of these. DIY is VERY minimal and I'm not even good at it.
  
 ?????


----------



## b0bb

robertsong said:


> Actually, what I think he is talking about there is the USB clock.


 
 I do not see any benefit in changing the 12MHz XO/clock, it controls the rate at which data is clocked in from the USB host/computer.
  
 There is rate matching between the USB audio device and the host at the protocol level so there is no need for hyper accurate clocks.
 The DDC regularly updates the USB host on the rate differences so it will stay in sync, assuming USB 2.0 enhanced audio mode.
 This is 2 way communication handshake.
  
 XMOS goes into more details
 http://www.xmos.com/fundamentals-usb-audio
 It is about half-way down after the picture of the USB dac.
  
 The ones that really matter are the audio bit stream clocks (Crystek/NDK recommendations), there is no 2 way communication between the SPDIF transmitter (the DDC) and receiver (the DAC) unlike USB.


----------



## hgpsemaj

abartels said:


> Yes, I know them, but they are not comparable with Ian's fifo reclock. Still, they are a good choice to use too!


 
  
 It offers two options, either re-clocking with 45.1584/49.152MHz*,* or 22.5792/24.576MHz.


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> Yes, I know them, but they are not comparable with Ian's fifo reclock. Still, they are a good choice to use too!


 

 The Cronus was the result of the discussions on DIYAudio into the limitations of the existing solutions including the FIFO reclocker.
 The main difference is that Cronus does everything at the PHY layer but the FIFO reclocker looks into the bitstream and reconstructs it.
  
 This makes the Cronus simpler, I have one of these.
  
 The downside of the Cronus is that it did not include a galvanically isolated I2S input, this leads to the problem of having too many single function modules connected together, makes my DAC look like a LEGO set.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> makes my DAC look like a LEGO set.


 
  
 Hahahahaha, yes indeed, it really looks awkward, but the Ian Jin (IanCanada) solution doesn't look better, same LEGO style


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> Only thing I really would want to try is the Ian (IanCanada) FiFo II Reclocker and Dual XO clockboard. I am very sure this would be the best achievable SQ. But for now I am


 
  
 One other thing to consider, the Soekris DAM 1021 R2R DAC at 195 USD  comes in about the same as either of the TP or IanCanada Reclocker boards
 plus it gets around all the annoying little RPi issues as it has an isolated I2S and reclocking FIFO
  
 A feature Soekris added recently is DSD, the FPGA will convert DSD to PCM on the DAC.
  
 Performance wise, with the powersupplies you already have, it will run rings around just about any mid range (<1500 USD) Delta-Sigma DAC out there.
  
 https://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Only thing I really would want to try is the Ian (IanCanada) FiFo II Reclocker and Dual XO clockboard. I am very sure this would be the best achievable SQ. But for now I am
> ...


 
  
 Hi B0bb,
  
 Thanks for the precious info! I did look into the Soekris a long time ago, didn't know it had DSD capabilities already by now!
 Btw, my DS dac already runs rings around much more expensive dac's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But, to be honest, I am looking into a new project which seems VERY interesting. It is based on DSD, directly from I2S, and NO dac needed.
 See the link below, it's VERY promising!
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/273474-best-dac-no-dac.html
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## Caper

My DDC will arrive next week I guess.
 Looking at Luckit driver package and see a waveio.exe(inslaller I guess) in the package.
 That´s not included in the standard driver.
 What is that waveio and do I need it?


----------



## Jerryfan

Shenzhen audio says new melodious is coming soon


----------



## murphythecat

abartels said:


> Hi B0bb,
> 
> Thanks for the precious info! I did look into the Soekris a long time ago, didn't know it had DSD capabilities already by now!
> Btw, my DS dac already runs rings around much more expensive dac's
> ...


 
  


abartels said:


> Hi B0bb,
> 
> Thanks for the precious info! I did look into the Soekris a long time ago, didn't know it had DSD capabilities already by now!
> Btw, my DS dac already runs rings around much more expensive dac's
> ...


 
 get the new dac from this thread :
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-570.html


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> But, to be honest, I am looking into a new project which seems VERY interesting. It is based on DSD, directly from I2S, and NO dac needed.
> See the link below, it's VERY promising!
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/273474-best-dac-no-dac.html
> ...


 
  
 That is an interesting project, are you one of those on the waiting list ?
  
 I have been looking at the one from ACKO
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/280763-direct-drive-dsd.html
  
 The same concept  plus it has an integrated isolator and reclocker that allows me to use the high stability XOs like the Crystek and NDKs.
  
  
 PCM is the main stumbling block and required very high quality conversion to mask the artifacts from the lossy conversion to DSD.
 I use JRiver and only convert at 256fs or higher.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > But, to be honest, I am looking into a new project which seems VERY interesting. It is based on DSD, directly from I2S, and NO dac needed.
> ...


 
 Yep, I'm on the waiting list 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's only about GBP10, so this can't go wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, I prefer with isolator and fifo reclocker too, Nautibuoy pointed me to BeagleBone Black with Acko S03, probably will try that too, seems better to me.
  
 At least, those are very nice projects 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For the moment I stopped using rpi with dac+pro, compared to SinglePC (one pc died last week) server 2012R2 /AO / JPlay, and I must admit, SinglePC is much more airy.
 I had troubles with previous DualPC setup, seemed the old AMD (12yo) didn't perform as expected. SinglePC (i7 16Gb RAM) performs a lot better.
  
 Will try HQPlayer, I am not very fond of Jriver's DSP modules. Trials are available.
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> For the moment I stopped using rpi with dac+pro, compared to SinglePC (one pc died last week) server 2012R2 /AO / JPlay, and I must admit, SinglePC is much more airy.
> I had troubles with previous DualPC setup, seemed the old AMD (12yo) didn't perform as expected. SinglePC (i7 16Gb RAM) performs a lot better.
> 
> Will try HQPlayer, I am not very fond of Jriver's DSP modules. Trials are available.


 
 I was surprised and impressed you managed to get the dac+pro far as you did, the PCM5122 in the dac+pro is a low cost mass market dac, the worst aspect of the implementation is the voltage output is the only option and the price is paid for using the internal opamp, compressed dynamics and narrow sound stage.
  
 I don't use JRiver's DSPs except for the DSD convertor, they put a lot of work into it and the effort is paying dividends.
 It is slightly better than the Weiss Saracon, one of the common tools used by the studios when converting DXD masters to DSD.
  
 http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/04/analysis-dsd-decoders-2015-windows-mac.html
  
 This the review of JRiver's previous DSD conversion, it shows the rapid progress they made
 http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/04/analysis-comparison-of-dsd-encoders.html
  
 The SQ difference between the current version JRiver and HQplayer is not sufficient for me to give HQPlayer's developer any money, now if they start supporting ALAC, that may change but for now I will keep renewing my JRiver licenses.


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> Yes, I prefer with isolator and fifo reclocker too, Nautibuoy pointed me to BeagleBone Black with Acko S03, probably will try that too, seems better to me.


 
  
 Use the Botic driver with this, also get the power sequencing cape/board for the BBB if you go down this route. TP and ACKO sell them.
  
 BBB has a tendency to blow-up and die if the power-up sequence to GPIO connected devices is done incorrectly .


----------



## otec

Hi
  
 I would like to connect my Breeze Audio XMOS U8 via I2S (RJ45) to DAC LKS Audio MH-DA003.
  
 My DAC expects +3.3V DSD/ 0V PCM signal on Pin 7.
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ph8f7a2mcuxe6qs/IMG_20160326_092113.jpg?dl=1
  
 XMOS U8 uses Pin 7 for MCLK.
  
 Is there anyway to connect those together ? 
  
 Ideally I would like to play DSD to DAC.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I prefer with isolator and fifo reclocker too, Nautibuoy pointed me to BeagleBone Black with Acko S03, probably will try that too, seems better to me.
> ...


 
 Thanks for this very useful tip!
  
 Btw, I used DAC+Pro onI2S only, but have to say it's native analog output did impress me when feeding 5V and 3.3V from low noise stable external psu's.


----------



## hgpsemaj

Friend of mind who lives next door to Breeze Audio, he bought the Talema version of DU-U8 for RMB580.00 today.


----------



## otec

I've been using this XMOS U8 for couple of days now. It seems to be sounding good. I have it connected AES/EBU to DAC. Odroid C2 is feeding PCM 32/192khz via USB. 
I haven't tried higher rates yet.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## robertsong

rb2013 said:


> But here is the magic part that took me weeks to nail down.  Using the excellent iFi DC Purifier between the DC-30W LPS (set to 7VDC) and the Regen.  This nifty little unit works wonders!   Now the Regen is being fed ultra low noise linear power - then the Regen's ultra low noise regulators clean it further - that power and signal is sent to the PUC2 lite...but with one additional step....http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/


 
  
  
 Hmmm.....  have you tried that ipower +5v wall wart?
 How does it compare to Teradak LPS/Cerious GE cord?
  
 I need an external +5V power supply for my WaveIO card. Currently powered through USB.


----------



## rb2013

robertsong said:


> Hmmm.....  have you tried that ipower +5v wall wart?
> How does it compare to Teradak LPS/Cerious GE cord?
> 
> I need an external +5V power supply for my WaveIO card. Currently powered through USB.


 

 The TeraDaK LPS/Cerious is better - but not by much.  Using the iPower 5VDC on the PPA V2 USB card.
  
 Just added a Audience aR1P at the wall socket (Teslaplex) that feeds the two separate PB4X4 AC line filters -one for the DAC and the other for the DDC chain.
 Bought it a an amazing price used on Audiogon.  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audience7/mini.html
  
 Another small but significant increase in clarity, smoothness and detail.  Ultra black background.  By the time the power feds the PUC2 lite is has been filtered 4 times and regulated by  both the DC iPurifier, and the Regen's ultra low noise regulators.  Then finally reclocked, and impedance matched and rebalanced by the iPurifier2.
  
 The level of clarity is stunning -as is the extremely low noise background. 
  
 Will start a new thread soon on the latest generation of XMOS DDC's the XU208 based Q1-S using three NDK SD's and the even more sophisticated F-1 XU208 using totl Crystek CCHD-575 (with even lower phase noise in the audible band then the 957).  The F-1 uses the ultra low noise LDO from ADI:
 They are in the mail and should be here in a week or so...
  
 Q1-S:


 F-1 XU208:


----------



## robertsong

rb2013 said:


> Will start a new thread soon on the latest generation of XMOS DDC's the XU208 based Q1-S using three NDK SD's and the even more sophisticated F-1 XU208 using totl Crystek CCHD-575 (with even lower phase noise in the audible band then the 957).  The F-1 uses the ultra low noise LDO from ADI:
> They are in the mail and should be here in a week or so...


 
  
  
 Did you get those off of eBay? Are they USB powered only?
  
  
 Also what do you think about making a linear regulated power supply from one of these?
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/89-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-3357v-15ax2.html


----------



## rb2013

robertsong said:


> Did you get those off of eBay? Are they USB powered only?
> 
> 
> Also what do you think about making a linear regulated power supply from one of these?
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/89-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-3357v-15ax2.html


 
 Direct from China - Yes they are USB powered only - but with the Regen not an issue as it has it's own power feed.  I also have a iFi iUSB2.0 and when used with the iPurifier 2.0 another excellent power source when powered by the 9VDC iPower - here a split cable like the Forza Twin Copper or my favorite the LH Labs 2G is needed.
  
 The advantage of perfecting this power chain - any USB DDC can be easily swapped into place.  I have designed a case to house both XU208 boards one with the NDK SD clocks and the other with Cyrstek CCHD-575 clocks - so I can change up the DDC in just a few minutes and switch between them.
  
 Here is the thread I started:
  
 XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 The DIYinHK ultra low noise PS is good - but I think the DC iPurifier may make it unnecessary, certainly if your using a Regen as well. This unit works great with the TeraDak Linear Power Supplies.
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/
  
With trickle-down technology from Abbingdon Music Research (AMR), the very latest product from iFi is the DC iPurifier; a noise-cancellation product aimed to enhance the existing, ubiquitous Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS).
 Generic SMPS designs are very noisy because they were never intended for audiophile applications.​ 





        
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	

 
 
 The DC iPurifier sits in-between the SMPS and the device such as; router, DAC, set top box, media streamer, laptop or desk mixer. And with the latest Active Noise Cancellation® technology, from 5 volts all the way up to 24 volts (up to 3.5 amps) the DC iPurifier sharply reduces noise to improve the quality of the device.​ 

 
 
 Got SMPS? Just add the DC iPurifier




 Generic Switch Mode Power Supply designs are noisy – but they were only intended for mainstream use so noise was never a consideration. Just insert the DC iPurifier between the existing noisy power supply and the source; noise is reduced by a factor of 316x to 100,000x.
 Be it home or professional audio, this is the most simple and most effective way of improving audio performance from arguably, one of the most noisy sources in a computer audio system.





 
 Active Noise Cancellation® derived from military radar technology




 Drawing from the military field (specifically the Thales Spectra radar cancellation system deployed in the French Dassault Rafale jet fighter), iFi adapted this technology to exclusively introduce the Active Noise Cancellation® (ANC®) audio power system.





  An enemy air defence radar will transmit at a certain frequency; when the enemy signal reaches the aircraft,
 a receiver on board the aircraft will pick up the signal and a computer will analyse its base
 frequency/modulations and produce an identical, but out-of-phase signal to cancel the enemy radar signal.

 By generating a signal identical to the noise signal but in the exact opposite phase, it actively cancels all the incoming noise. ANC® is the perfect ‘antidote’ for power supply noise, the bane of all audio systems.








 Across the audible range, measured noise is improved by 316x to 100,000x or by 50dB to 100dB respectively.
 Sonically, the background and inner resolution to recordings is brought to the fore and no longer hidden. Sonics are much smoother, just like how good analogue should be. Nothing comes close.

 





 Ultra wide-band design, effective from 1Hz to above 5GHz
 iFi leaves no stone unturned; the DC iPurifier is a ground-up, ultra-wide band design.
 Effective from 1Hz all the way up to 5GHz. Crucially the strongest performance is in the audible range of 20Hz to 20KHz.

 
 Compatible with all power supply designs 5V-24V/3.5A/84W




 The DC iPurifier handles 5v through to 24V. Takes up to 3.5A or 84W. For different types of DC barrel connectors, the DC iPurifier works with 5.5 x 2.1mm but also ships with adapters for 5.5×2.5mm and 3.5×1.35mm. These three fittings cover the gamut of DC barrel connectors.
 Professional audio applications typically require a ‘centre negative’ power supply. To lower noise with the DC iPurifier, use a ‘centre positive’ power supply at the input and use a special white ‘inverter’ at the output.


----------



## robertsong

How about the 5V ipower wall wart and DC ipurifier together? Have you tried this?


----------



## rb2013

robertsong said:


> How about the 5V ipower wall wart and DC ipurifier together? Have you tried this?


 

 Yes - it makes it slightly better - but I believe the DC iPurifier tech is in the new iPowers - so may not have as much effect.
  
 So far the best is the TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious/DC iPur to the Regen then the iPur2.0 to the PUC2
  
 the next best the iUSB2.0/iPower 9VDC/DC iPur/iPur 2.0,
  
 then the 5VDC iPower/DC iPur/Pur 2.0
  
 Note all using a JB at the PPA2.0 modded into a VBUS blocker (and power and ground pin severed). 2G cable (no power leg with the Regen).
  
 The iPurifier 2.0 relocks so need to be powered...now getting ultra low noise +5VDC from the Regen.
  
 Each level of AC/DC filtering has opened up the sound - just shows how awful our modern day electrical grid is - digital noise pollution is horrendous.  cleaning the power is especailly noticeable on digital chain.  With all these femto second clocks - super sensitive to jitter effects and PS noise of many kinds.


----------



## abartels

rb2013 said:


> > F-1 XU208 using totl Crystek CCHD-575 (with even lower phase noise in the audible band then the 957).


 
  
 Crystek CCHD 575 TOTL ???? That's NOT so obvious to me, but they are close to NDK
  
 Pricing? About USD 25,00 for the Crysteks, USD 8,00 for the NDK's (45.xxx mHz and 49.xxx mHz even only USD 4,00 at Jlsounds)
  
  
 Freq                          CCHD575                  NZ2520SD
  
 10Hz                         -100dB                      -113dB
 100Hz                       -130dB                      -140dB
 200Hz                        -138dB                     -142dB
 400Hz                        -145dB                     -148dB
 1000Hz                      -150dB                      -153dB
 10000Hz                    -162dB                      -158dB
 100000Hz                  -164dB                      -158dB
  
 F-1 V1.0 looks great btw! But very expensive, about USD 150,00 excluding shipment.


----------



## rb2013

abartels said:


> Crystek CCHD 575 TOTL ???? That's NOT so obvious to me, but they are close to NDK
> 
> Pricing? About USD 25,00 for the Crysteks, USD 8,00 for the NDK's (45.xxx mHz and 49.xxx mHz even only USD 4,00 at Jlsounds)
> 
> ...


 
 I meant totl for Crystek - as the 575 appears to have better in audio band levels to the 957.  But you are right below approx 2200Hz the NDK SD are better.  What will be cool is I will have both and can easily switch between the two.  $150 and no case - but if it betters the $450 PUC Lite that would be a huge win.  And it's cheaper then the Pro3a.
  
 Note the Xilinx FPGA noise isolation similar to the Tanly and Hyrda Z.  But using the XU208 vs the U8


----------



## rb2013

Here is the thread I started:
  
 'XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED!'
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived


----------



## abartels

rb2013 said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Crystek CCHD 575 TOTL ???? That's NOT so obvious to me, but they are close to NDK
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I saw the Xilinx, it's VERY promising! Hope it can be fed with seperate psu rails to perform at it's best. That's what most good DDC's lack, seperate power feeds,,,,,


----------



## bimmer100

abartels said:


> Crystek CCHD 575 TOTL ???? That's NOT so obvious to me, but they are close to NDK
> 
> Pricing? About USD 25,00 for the Crysteks, USD 8,00 for the NDK's (45.xxx mHz and 49.xxx mHz even only USD 4,00 at Jlsounds)
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 NDK's are by far the best option. clearly when comparing to crystek.
  
 the low end all the way to 1000Hz are quite important as no other clocks come close to this performance. -13dB less for 10Hz is very significant, and this is comparing to an already stellar performance crystek!  NDK's are definitely the best option. And as you said, the cost difference is also a factor. this is a no brainer if you were designing a DDC the choice would would be NDK. 
  
 I'm quite happy with how my DIU8 sounds with the NDK's i've installed.  
  
 Too bad there isn't any of those new Xilinx chipsets that are using NDK's. Otherwise i'd might be interested to give them a go.
  
  
 those IFI products are quite neat if you need them. I own just about one of each. well specifically the Ipurifier2, Dc Ipurifier, and the dc wall wart 12v model.
  
 I tried the Ipurfier2 inline after my Intona before going into my DIU8 yet experience no change...total bummer. I'll be using this in my wifes setup.
  
 I am however using the DC ipurfier with my teddy pardo lps and it did help a tiny bit, as the teddy is known to have a few spikes of noise down in the lower freq, but maybe this is all in my mind. I'm going to use this device in my new dac build (dual dam1021's with luckit waveiO and hdmi i2s input) the teddy will power the waveIO, and Hynes will power the dac's.
  
 the last device, the dc wall wart from Ifi i've had for many months yet never realy thought much of it, as now it's just used to power a silly device I bought like that revive 777 thing? it's some low freq generator that certainly is a scam and waste of time and money. But at least I tried it. And it's powered by the ifi wall wart now.
  
 All the ifi products are actually pretty damn good for the price, albeit they had little effect in my system, and some had no effect. I think my balanced A/C system tends to set the bar pretty high for having ultimately the lowest noise floor possible. 
  
 I'm pretty much done playing around with ddc's for the moment. The LuckIT waveIO (uses NDK's go figure, and has 7 ultra low noise voltage regulators/3 LDO's LP5900 6uV noise for clocks) will be the heart of my new dac project and I can't wait to hear it's potential. I'm sure it will take the cake and dominate all the DDC's i've heard. I almost went the round of JL sounds USBoverI2s module (also uses NDK's go figure, not sure if it has as many regulators, but does also have 3 LP5900 6uV LDO's for clocks) as it's spec'd better than everything out on the market today...yet it's not clearly the best option for my build. I know it will work, but was a bit more complicated and needed two separate PSU's to get the full effect. I may try it at a later date. But I plan to implement direct DSD with my new project... or the best dac is no dac...Acko is working on a dsd project that taps off the i2s lines to feed true native dsd out into analog. Has a lot of promise and it will be out soon. it doesn't need a dac, just a great usb module like WaveIO, Amanero etc etc.


----------



## rb2013

abartels said:


> Yes, I saw the Xilinx, it's VERY promising! Hope it can be fed with separate psu rails to perform at it's best. That's what most good DDC's lack, separate power feeds,,,,,


 
 It may those sets of connections on the sides of the board - possibility for external DC inputs.  The Regen with it's ext feed or alternatively a iFi iUSB 3.0- or iUSB 2.0 with the iPurifier2.0 fed by a LPS/DC iPurifier or an iPower 9VDC using a split USB cable works fine.  The same effect power from a ultra clean non-pc USB source.

 The Regen takes a 7VDC due to it's on board ultra low noise regulation (if feeding a high drawn USB DDC like the PUC2 otherwise 9VDC is fine) the iFi iUSB 9 VDC or just going straight into the power USB leg of the 2G takes 5VDC.  So spending $300-$400 for a higher grade LPS like the Hynes with it's fixed voltage may not be optimal.  Using a variable voltage TeraDak DC-30W with the DC iPurifier seems the most versatile.
  
 That said Uptone is about to  release a killer power supply - so that will be interesting.
  
 Once the power leg investment is made  - then these USB powered devices become easily and low risk interchangeable.  Once you start modding the power inputs - things can go terribly wrong.  I'm more of a plug and play guy.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyway as technology advances the DDC boards can be swapped out - the power chain remains constant.
  
 What do you think about this feature of the F-1 XU208:


> *full isolation technology, 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;*


 


> *source synchronous shaping technology and CPLD technology, I2S signal isolation after the re-shaping; thus eliminating the isolation chip to bring added jitter*


 
 What is cool about the new gen of XMOS - they are firmware upgradeable, besides twice the processing power and a whole host of other improvements


> XU/XUF: PROGRAMMABLE HIGH SPEED USB 2.0
> 
> 
> The xCORE-200 USB family of devices (XU and XUF) extends the popular xCORE architecture to provide increased performance, memory footprint and flexibility for the most demanding applications.
> ...


----------



## robertsong

Bob, any thoughts on the Teradak Bladelius vs. DC-30 Touch?  Is the Bladelius new?
  
  
 I started a thread on the DIY board just to see what happens:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803109/looking-to-make-a-linear-regulated-5-volt-power-supply-suggestions-please#post_12458576
  
 Bladelius
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-BLADELIUS-USB-DAC-power-source-5V-3A-Linear-Power-Supply-/262057568111?hash=item3d03d9276f:g:lMoAAOSwFnFV~r35
  
  
  
 DC-30W-Touch
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TeraDak-DC-30W-TOUCH-DC5V-3A-Linear-precision-linear-regulated-power-supply-/301773952382?hash=item464321157e:g:EnkAAOSwfcVUI5XK


----------



## rb2013

robertsong said:


> Bob, any thoughts on the Teradak Bladelius vs. DC-30 Touch?  Is the Bladelius new?
> 
> 
> I started a thread on the DIY board just to see what happens:
> ...


 

 I have both and prefer the DC-30W Touch with the large Pannie Caps - I have new HWs to put in but just haven't had time.  They are very close to each other.  Hoping the new low cost Uptone PS will be good.  At $130 for the DC-30W with a $90 DC iPurifier - not a bad pairing.  Cerious has been MIA - too bad really great power cords.  Many others to choose from.  I would add a great AC line conditioner before the LPS.
  
 I got a great deal on a AuriCap Audience aR1p http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue36/audience.htm
 This is the same design as the $5000 aR12p and $3000 aR6p - just no chord and one outlet:



> One nice feature of the aR line conditioners are their partial passive Power Factor Correction. To quote Roger Sheker (Audience's Chief Design Engineer), "this helps bring the voltage and current more into phase and makes the load look more like a resistor to the power line. As a result this process enhances the transfer of power making all Adept Response line conditioners more efficient and cleaner."


 
 The aR1p feeds a Art Audio PB4X4 Pro common and differential mode AC line filter and isolator for the DAC then on to a separate PB4X4Pro for the DDC. 


> All PRO SERIES models have an additional internal discrete module called APF™ (Advanced Power Filtering) which filters out digital and dimmer hash as well as any high frequency noise that is above the audio range. Some off-the-shelf add-on modules saturate and lose their filtering effectiveness as the load increases, but by using a high power discrete design we were able to create a filter that stays effective over the full operating range.
> By using both Common Mode and Differential Mode topologies in series for the filter design we are able to block virtually all of the unwanted noise that is between the AC line and ground, and also the two sides of the AC line. This has the additional benefit of reducing ground loop problems in your system. High frequency noise currents in particular are highly attenuated in both directions so that any line noise that could be generated by one of your components is not allowed to get back into your main A.C. wiring so if you use a number of PRO SERIES Power Conditioners in your setup, you can distribute and isolate the noisy components from the sensitive components in your system. Additionally, any signals above 10kHz are filtered from the line with over 40dB of attenuation above 100kHz and beyond.
> Every PRO SERIES power conditioner is designed with a power capacity of 1800 Watts, surge/spike protection, APF with EMI & RFI filtering, front-mounted unswitched power outlet and an adjustable rear-mounted gooseneck light source for bright illumination behind the rack.


 
 So the power has been well filtered and corrected, the digital gear isolated on independent AC filters -  even before the power enters the TeraDak DC-30W.  Then the power goes through three layers of low noise regulation (DC iPur, Regen, iPur 2.0) - before powering the DDC.  The benefits extend to the DAC as well - isolated AC from DDC - power filtered and corrected by the aR1p and PB4X4Pro - also using a Cerious Tech Graphene power cord.  This may all seem obsessive - but each step has done amazing things for the sound quality.  Not just smoothness and musicality, but the greater clarity, detail and imaging focus, deeper better defined bass, wide deeper soundstaging.  The results have been truly outstanding.


----------



## wht

bimmer100 said:


> I recommend the intona over any device of its kind. Which are USB cleaners, reclocker , regen, isolators for power. But this intona is one of about 2 or three products that does isolation of the USB data. It uses two Spartan fpga' to break down and rebuild the data from the dirty to clean side.it's a great piece of gear to own if you use USB at all. Simply put, it will give you the most out of your USB.
> I have owned everything you can imagine from the Uptone regen, jitterbug, wyrd, etc etc. sold all of them......




Presently, I am using a direct connection from a pc to the USB input of my M11.

Can Mr bimmer100 comment please whether the Intona will bring SQ improvements to my system and if it does, should I buy the Indstrial version over the standard version?

Thanks.


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Hi B0bb,
> 
> Thanks for the great tips, will give SmartMix and Bridge a try.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are having lots of fun there 
There is a lot you can do to (theoretically) improve playback in Linux: realtime kernels, interrupt/process prios, proc affinity, etc. Unfortunately it's all quite cumbersome and I do not know of any easy tools. Here's a pretty good resume http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration
I'd say it's better to just stick with one of those audio-optimized distros and hope that they get it right. E.g. runeaudio just released rpi3 support. 

And out of curiosity, is that IanFifo board going to replace the berrydac or come on top of it? And is it a 'simple' reclocker or it does full ASRC?


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Hi B0bb,
> ...


 
  
 Yes, always having fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I had some troubles getting I2S input AK4495SEQ working with RPI and Amanero board. Finally decided to put back isolated XMOS which works (and sounds) perfectly.
  
 Btw, abandoned Jplay, since I am in SinglePC mode now, JPlay isn't of any use anymore. It even seemed  to degraded SQ on this SinglePC (the HP laptop),
 so I must say, you were right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will try RPI with my other AK4495SEQ dac's (NO DSD). Thanks for the RuneAudio tip, but I prefer headless player, so will try PiCoreplayer which also supports RPI3 by now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The Ian FiFo II is a comprehensive reclocker which rebuilds I2S completely. Ian has a little board to connect to RPI, so you don't need HifiBerry DAC+Pro for it's I2S signal.
 The FiFo also needs an isolator board between FiFo II and DAC.
  
 Other interesting projects are the "Direct DSD" projects from Acko and Nautibuoy at diyaudio
  
 Nautibuoy's project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/273474-best-dac-no-dac.html
  
 Acko's Direct Drive DSD project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/280763-direct-drive-dsd.html
  
 Acko's Amanero/Reclocker project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/227502-amanero-isolator-reclocker-gb.html


----------



## hgpsemaj

*Re: Singxer SU-1 USB Interface*
  

  
  

  
  
  
xiu305470199

还有静音引脚和DSD ON引脚

 

 

  
  
 Translate by Google:
  
 And also the mute pin and DSD ON pin


----------



## Caper

Today my DDC finally arrived from China.
 Sounding really nice from first minute 
 Will do a comparison to the dvd player over coax in a couple of day´s.
 The SQ compared to USB is huge!
  
 Feeding the DDC by Aqvox psu.
  
 Using Jriver and wasapi, any better to use ASIO?
  
 When I got that DDC I got a bit confused.
 Very well made chassi and it´s labeled: Breeze Audio?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## abartels

caper said:


> Today my DDC finally arrived from China.
> Sounding really nice from first minute
> Will do a comparison to the dvd player over coax in a couple of day´s.
> The SQ compared to USB is huge!
> ...


 
  
 You could try KS (kernel streaming), sounds best in my opinion


----------



## Caper

Ok, I will try kernel streaming.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bimmer100

Finally got around to modding a Breeze DUU8 with crystek 957's. And it sounds fantastic. I want to spend a little more time and compare with my AGD DIU8 with NDK's but it's really damn close. Surely a nice bump in SQ over the stock JYEC gold clocks. Those obviously have inflated specs. The soundstage on the breeze is surely improved and a touch more bass texture/control yet a touch on the high end of clarity with no hints of distortion. 
  
 This mod went quite well. Here are a few photos of the process.


----------



## b0bb

caper said:


> When I got that DDC I got a bit confused.
> Very well made chassi and it´s labeled: Breeze Audio?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261932067307?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 The one you bought is the baby Breeze, that is the DU-U8 minus the power supply and external I2S.


----------



## abartels

bimmer100 said:


> Finally got around to modding a Breeze DUU8 with crystek 957's. And it sounds fantastic. I want to spend a little more time and compare with my AGD DIU8 with NDK's but it's really damn close. Surely a nice bump in SQ over the stock JYEC gold clocks. Those obviously have inflated specs. The soundstage on the breeze is surely improved and a touch more bass texture/control yet a touch on the high end of clarity with no hints of distortion.
> 
> This mod went quite well. Here are a few photos of the process.


 
  
 Well done


----------



## abartels

Btw, yesterday evening, came home late but wanted to try RPI3 with PiCoreplayer connected with I2S to one of my older AK4495SEQ dac's.
  
 RPI3 5V fed with 0.8uV low noise psu, both for RPI3 and Dac+Pro. So, only one psu for 5V RPI, 3.3V RPI, 5V Dac+Pro and 3.3V Dac+Pro.
 So, first setup with this RPI3 was very basic.
  
 It's burning-in as we speak, will use more seperate psu rails later, but sounding promising


----------



## Caper

b0bb said:


> The one you bought is the baby Breeze, that is the DU-U8 minus the power supply and external I2S.


 
 Ok, thank you!
 Even though it sounds better than USB from my pc to my amp/dac it´s not as good as a 15 year old Pioneer DVD player connected to coax.
 The sound from the old Pioneer is brighter and crispier with more details.
 Tried both Jriver and Foobar with wasapi, ASIO and Kernel streaming.
 Also bought Fidelizer Plus.
 A bit dissapointed.
 I don´t know if I will give up for now and accept that my PC can´t compete with a standalone player.
 Maybe start looking at networkstreamers.
  
 I read that W7 can´t compete with W10 in SQ but can´t dump W7 since I use WMC.
  
 W7 64
 Jriver/Foobar
 Fidelizer Plus
 Supra USB cable
 Aqvox PSU
 Baby Breeze DDC
 Hegel H80


----------



## hugoboss

caper said:


> Ok, thank you!
> Even though it sounds better than USB from my pc to my amp/dac it´s not as good as a 15 year old Pioneer DVD player connected to coax.
> The sound from the old Pioneer is brighter and crispier with more details.
> Tried both Jriver and Foobar with wasapi, ASIO and Kernel streaming.
> ...


 
  
 the best solution is to make a dual head usb cable with separate data and power. so the power goes to linear power supply the data only to your pc.
 i have done this and iam sure it's the best and cheap upgrade.
  
  
 i buy my linear psu with usb input 5volt for 80 dollar at taobao .


----------



## abartels

caper said:


> b0bb said:
> 
> 
> > The one you bought is the baby Breeze, that is the DU-U8 minus the power supply and external I2S.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Caper,
  
 Since you received your DDC about 1 day ago, it can't be burned-in yet.
 Please let it play for 150 hours and report back.
  
 W7 indeed can't compete with W10 or server 2012. Used WMC from first version till last, W10 is a huge upgrade SQ wise.
 My advise: Get rid off W7/WMC, upgrade to W10 and use JRiver as media center.
  
 There aren't many (if at all.....) DVD-players which can outperform CA, when done the right way.
  
 I traveled across the same road...... most of us did, and, possibilities nowadays are  unlimited, it just needs time (and money) to explore and achieve the best solutions.
 That's what is keeping us busy, and happy (most of the time, hahahaha)
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## Luckbad

After all the recent hubub about Mutec converters on other forums, I reached out and got myself a loaner of both the MC-1.2 and MC-3+ USB for review. They're traditionally used in professional audio applications but audiophiles found them.

The Mutec MC-3+ USB is the first USB to S/P-DIF converter I've used that I immediately could hear improvements with. It's so clearly better with my setup that I splurged and bought two.

I also currently have a couple other solutions here. I'd rank them as follows:

Mutec MC-3+ USB
Mutec MC-1.2 w/ power cable
CI Audio Transient MKII (USB powered. I don't have an LPSU for it)
Mutec MC-1.2 w/ USB power
Audio-GD DI-U8

Improvements are said to be gained by using a linear power supply and a Regen in front. I'm not modding this, though, and I can't discern improvements using the Regen.

To be honest, my plan was to try these high end converters, decide they were overpriced, then buy something with the new XMOS. The Mutec took me off guard.


----------



## Caper

hugoboss said:


> the best solution is to make a dual head usb cable with separate data and power. so the power goes to linear power supply the data only to your pc.
> i have done this and iam sure it's the best and cheap upgrade.
> 
> 
> i buy my linear psu with usb input 5volt for 80 dollar at taobao .


 
 I already bought a Aqvox linear psu that do about the same thing.
 Cutting power from pc and provide cleaner power.
http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
 Should be pretty decent?


----------



## Caper

abartels said:


> Hi Caper,
> 
> Since you received your DDC about 1 day ago, it can't be burned-in yet.
> Please let it play for 150 hours and report back.
> ...


 
 I really cant ditch W7 MCE.
 Using a DVBT-2 TV card and encrypted channels, works perfect.
 Also using my movies plugin for wmc.
 I am extremely happy with how everything works, watching TV, 100% functional EPG and never misses a scheduled recording.
 All my movies plays perfectly also through wmc without stuttering and perfect quality.
 My wife will never EVER allow me to ditch wmc, WAF is huge.
 This rig is playing TV, music, stream Netflix, movies and much more and is constantly running.
 I also have a xbox 360 connected as an extender in our bedroom and it allows us to have tv and movies there also, works 100%.
  
 Jriver should work ok as a mediacenter but it doesn´t support encrypted channels and then also I loose the TV in bedroom through the extender.
  
 So the only option as I see it right now is to accept that audio quality is not top notch or maybe try a dualboot or buy a networkstreamer when playing music.
 SQ right now is actually pretty good but I can´t ignore the fact that it can be much better.
 Running a dualboot is maybe not a bad idea but it takes time to configure, buy another Windows licence and Jriver license...maybe a network streamer should be best.
  
 For sure the DDC isn´t done burning in yet so I will let it play some day´s more.
 Since the rig is on almost 24/7 it shouldn´t take long.


----------



## abartels

> I really cant ditch W7 MCE.
> Using a DVBT-2 TV card and encrypted channels, works perfect.
> Also using my movies plugin for wmc.
> I am extremely happy with how everything works, watching TV, 100% functional EPG and never misses a scheduled recording.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Caper,
  
 Yes, I understand, I had two DVBS cards in my WMC (FloppyDTV) and loved them. Especially the recurring recording options where great.
  
 Dedicated soundsystem is best, even an older laptop can outperform newest systems if installed the right way (lightest possible) with SSD.
 Just for audio playback.


----------



## Caper

abartels said:


> Hi Caper,
> 
> Yes, I understand, I had two DVBS cards in my WMC (FloppyDTV) and loved them. Especially the recurring recording options where great.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I have a couple of old laptops that soon will be upgraded to newer ones.
 Maybe I can use one of those just as dedicated music players.
 I also used  floppydtv earlier but for dvbt, they were rock solid.


----------



## hugoboss

caper said:


> I already bought a Aqvox linear psu that do about the same thing.
> Cutting power from pc and provide cleaner power.
> http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
> Should be pretty decent?


 
  
 yes , it should be good with that clean power.
 do you beleive in cable? if you do, try occ copper usb cable.


----------



## bimmer100

caper said:


> I really cant ditch W7 MCE.
> Using a DVBT-2 TV card and encrypted channels, works perfect.
> Also using my movies plugin for wmc.
> I am extremely happy with how everything works, watching TV, 100% functional EPG and never misses a scheduled recording.
> ...




Is this PC you talk about a desktop or laptop? And what USB are you using? If a desktop? What motherboard and what power supply. As voltage ripple and also noise in the data line could be the culprit. And if a laptop, the same thing, but try running on battery over being plugged in to the smps.(switch mode power supply)
An intona may actually be an answer but curious to hear your response first.

A USB cable shouldn't cost much. If you have a nice cheap cable that is properly built like a supra then it will be as good or better than all the fancy dual ones like LH labs 10g or 2g. I've tested the 10g quite a bit, and own a 2g for some reason. I should sell it since I actually use supra cables currently. Fancy USB cables is not the answer. Likely you are having noise spikes in 8khz and 16khz from the USB port itself. 
Again... I've mentioned the average PC has noisy data packets at 8khz and measured around -110dB. The intona nearly elimates it around -145dB or so. Problem is USB itself, most devices have the noisy data packet issue... I wouldn't doubt 95% or more are at least a little noisy. And most are very noisy. Hence why people prefer coax, bnc, optical etc. but USB could be better if its implemented correctly.

I used HDMI yet still have a DDC that starts with the USB input. I'm using the intona and have an improvement even with my fancy Paul Hynes linear psu , Paul pang v3 ocxo USB 3.0 card. It's crazy it still helps... Simply due to its ability to get rid of the noisey data packets. 
I have the ifi ipurifier2 and ifi DC purifier and they don't work as well as the intona. For whatever it's worth.

They do work well though. If you want to get better power than what your linear psu is doing, add a ifi DC purifier in the mix. But it won't fix USB data noise.
The I purifier2 should help though, doesn't seem to be quite as effective though.


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> Is this PC you talk about a desktop or laptop? And what USB are you using? If a desktop? What motherboard and what power supply. As voltage ripple and also noise in the data line could be the culprit. And if a laptop, the same thing, but try running on battery over being plugged in to the smps.(switch mode power supply)
> An intona may actually be an answer but curious to hear your response first.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My computer is a Intel Nuc D34010WYK with SSD.
http://www.intel.se/content/www/se/sv/nuc/nuc-kit-d34010wyk-board-d34010wyb.html
 Driven by a FSP 230-->19v power adaptor.
http://www.amazon.com/FSP-barebones-replacement-FSP065-REB-FSP065-10AABA/dp/B00T4BX0IU
 I don´t know if there are better 19v psu´s available to the nuc?
 For the fun of it...I could try a 19v powerbank, they are not that expensive and could have other use for it also.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/58800mAh-Multi-Function-Car-Jump-Starter-Power-Bank-Battery-Charger-Booster-12V-/361482067482?tfrom=361450054301&tpos=top&ttype=price&talgo=undefined
 That one has 19v output and should work.
  
 On the backport USB port I have a Jitterbug connected and then Supra USB cable that goes to the Aqvox splitter and in to the Baby Brreeze DDC.
 Oehlbach coax cable in to the amp/dac, Hegel H80.
 Can´t really hear any difference in sound if the Jitterbug is used or not.
  
 The I Purifier2 seems reasonably prized compared to the Intona.
 But maybe try that Intona anyway if you say its good.


----------



## rb2013

Hey I just listed my Supra 2.0 USB 2M cable in the classifeds - great price.
  
 Doing a little spring cleaning.
  
 Cheers


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Yes, always having fun :wink_face:
> 
> I had some troubles getting I2S input AK4495SEQ working with RPI and Amanero board. Finally decided to put back isolated XMOS which works (and sounds) perfectly.
> 
> ...



Wont comment on jplay and risk tbe wrath of the 'goldenear' hordes 

Afaik all those audio 'optimized' rpi distros are headless. But the picoplayer one seems to be the slimest indeed. And btw most distros use Mpd as player. Slim, headless, low level and comes with clients for all phone/tablet/pc os-es http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Clients. I'd say you should give it a try. 

Ianfifo sounds like the best device for your project: cheap, small and fully customizable on all levels. Hope to hear more about it from you soon. 


As about the direct-dsd 'dacs' that sounds like a great idea too. IIRC, lampizator has a pricey & well reviewed device which works exactly like that. Only problem here is the pcm2dsd conversion on rpi. Not sure if there any good convertors for linux .. and it could be too hard a job for the small rpi-s. But I guess it has to be tried first.

Have a great weekend. Hope you have the same amazingly sunny weather there.


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> I had some troubles getting I2S input AK4495SEQ working with RPI and Amanero board. Finally decided to put back isolated XMOS which works (and sounds) perfectly.


 
  
 Check the master clock (MCLK)  frequency on the Amanero is the same as the XMOS, this is adjustable on the Amanero.
 Use a scope or put the 4495 into Auto Setting mode (Pin16/ACKS=H).
 In auto setting mode, MCLK frequency and sampling frequency are detected automatically.
  
 The DIYINHK Isolated XMOS is a little bit better but it is always good to get to the bottom of why things are not working
  
 RPI will not work, no MCLK unless you have Ian's FIFO or the TP Cronus inline.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > I had some troubles getting I2S input AK4495SEQ working with RPI and Amanero board. Finally decided to put back isolated XMOS which works (and sounds) perfectly.
> ...


 
  
 Hi B0bb,
  
 Thanks for helping me out. Could indeed be that ACKS is low, will check this when I receive my dac back, it's staying at a friends house for another week.
 Since I use RPI3 + HifiBerry DAC+ Pro, it has MCLK, and it's same frequencies as isolated xmos, at least, same audio XO frequencies as isolated xmos.
  
 RPI3 and DAC+Pro are burning-in right now, next thursday I will post listening impression. I'm using an older AK4495SEQ without all the seperate psu rails
 my own dac has.


----------



## hgpsemaj

F1/Xmos needs to consume 5V via its USB,
  
  
  
 有關 'F-1 XMOS USB數字界面'



它需要從USB口輸入5V電嗎?




 00:04​
xiu305470199

 你好



xiu305470199

 需要的




  
 有關 'F-1 XMOS USB數字界面'



用板上隔离电源模块時, 它同時需要從USB口輸入5V電嗎?




 13:07​
xiu305470199

 需要的


----------



## rb2013

No takers on the Supra 2.0 USB 2M cable I listed - dropped the price to $29.
  
 Doesn't anybody want to try this?


----------



## CFGamescape

Sorry to sorta double-post, but this seems like the more relevant DDC-related thread. I am looking to use the latest and greatest driver that is compatible with the U12 where I can simply install it and have it work (no changing UIDs or PIDs, etc.). I'm currently using the 2.26 one, but based on what I've read, there are sure to be better options? Or, is no one using the U12 anymore?
  
 Or should I just return the U12 and get something else. I honestly can't tell the difference with or without it...


----------



## hgpsemaj

You may try these:
  
* **V3.20.0版本：http://pan.baidu.com/s/1V7oJG*
  
  
* V2.26.0版本：http://pan.baidu.com/s/1ntDUtqp*


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, always having fun
> ...


 
 Hahahaha, yes, better not mention JPlay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There indeed are many distro's who could compete with PiCoreplayer, but that is something I will try later on. First things first, have to have a good hardware setup.
 The Ian FIFO II is not that cheap as you think, it needs isolator board and DACBOARD too, so including shipment we are talking about something in the range of $300.
 But, this would be best option for now, sadly no DSD, so, not sure if I have to wait for Ian's DSD project 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 About Direct DSD: I would let PC handle conversion, NOT rpi since it obviously hasn't enough cpu power to do the trick.
  
 I read your post today, the weather wasn't bad but not as promised,,,,, so only 2 hours of sun yesterday, rest of weekend was really cloudy


----------



## prot

hgpsemaj said:


> You may try these:
> 
> * **V3.20.0版本：http://pan.baidu.com/s/1V7oJG*
> 
> ...




Thx for the 3.2 link, those things are almost impossible to google. At least for non chinese speakers. Will try it asap. 




cfgamescape said:


> Sorry to sorta double-post, but this seems like the more relevant DDC-related thread. I am looking to use the latest and greatest driver that is compatible with the U12 where I can simply install it and have it work (no changing UIDs or PIDs, etc.). I'm currently using the 2.26 one, but based on what I've read, there are sure to be better options? Or, is no one using the U12 anymore?
> 
> Or should I just return the U12 and get something else. I honestly can't tell the difference with or without it...




The 2.26 driver works very well in my setup, never had any glitches (and I have 3 other usb audio drvs on that winpc). 
You should try 3.20 but dont get your hopes up much. If there is any SQ improvement, most probably it'll be very small. 
In spite of all the hype posts, the DDCs arent exactly the promoted 'universal usb cure' .. pc, dac, power or even (extremeley rarely) cables still make a big difference. Unless you have a seriously screwed digital setup (e.g. very old pc or usb dac, big power issues, etc) you will not hear any of those advertised 'night & day' diffs. And could very well be that your pc usb is already clean enough or you dac 'cleans' usb very well and there are no SQ improvements to be had. In fact, I bet that most people wont hear a ddc improvement. 

What I hear from my (heavily modded u12) is a bit of extra bass and a slight improvement in sound 'roundness' and maybe even detail. But it's all quite subtle and I wont bet on a blind test. 
So .. give the box some settling time and try to a/b it carefully 1-2 times. If no diffs and you still want to try, I would recommemd a puc2lite. Hard to quantify the diffs clearly but the puc2 in my setup just sonds more powerful, enjoyable & 'musical'. 
Good luck.


----------



## CFGamescape

prot said:


> Thx for the 3.2 link, those things are almost impossible to google. At least for non chinese speakers. Will try it asap.
> The 2.26 driver works very well in my setup, never had any glitches (and I have 3 other usb audio drvs on that winpc).
> You should try 3.20 but dont get your hopes up much. If there is any SQ improvement, most probably it'll be very small.
> In spite of all the hype posts, the DDCs arent exactly the promosed universal usb cure .. pc, dac, power or even (extremeley rarely) cables can make a difference. Unless you have a seriously screwed digital setup (e.g. very old pc or usb dac, big power issues, etc) you will not hear any of those advertised 'nigh & day' diffs. And could very well be that yoir pc usb is already clean enough or you dac cleans it very well and there are no SQ improvements to be had. In fact I bet most people wont hear a ddc improvement.
> ...




Hi, yeah, I totally agree with you on everything. I've had the U12 for about a month and a half now. My PC is a very high-end gaming PC that has about 7k worth of parts, but I don't know if any of that benefits audio. I use Fidelizer Pro, which I think makes a difference. 

Maybe I need to do some more A/B testing before I return the U12 (if I still can). I guess there is the peace-of-mind and/or placebo factor of having a DDC, among other things, in my chain, but I certainly don't have golden ears, short term audio memory or whatever some folks seem to have to be able to decern all these subtleties between devices.

My main gripe is the U12 doesn't have the traditional driver support of similarly-priced hardware. It's like this thing is an afterthought to their other products. Or, maybe this is normal for DDCs in this day and age?

Thanks for your recommendation on the PUC2Lite.


----------



## b0bb

abartels said:


> The Ian FIFO II is not that cheap as you think, it needs isolator board and DACBOARD too, so including shipment we are talking about something in the range of $300.
> But, this would be best option for now, sadly no DSD, so, not sure if I have to wait for Ian's DSD project


 
  
 I took closer look at the HifiBerry DAC+PRO board and see there is already a MCLK generator and they are using the ES9023's PLL to do the reclocking. More importantly I think the special driver is already in Linux and in the Picoreplayer distribution.
  
 One other reason you may have had trouble with the 4495 initially is that the formatting of the I2S stream is for the ES9023, check the 4495's manual to see if it different and the Hifiberry guys may be able to tell you the format they used or if you are able, read the kernel driver source on Github for the exact setup they used for the ES9023.
  
 If you get the Amanero isolator board, all the necessary I2S lines are there, DIYINHK gives out the PCB for free, you pay shipping.
  
 Basically, if you do the the following RPI ->Amanero Isolator->DAC+ Pro->AK4495, you have an alternate to Ian's FIFO reclocker except you save $300.
  
 PS: I think you get DSD as we are dealing with just the bit stream, check with HiFiberry to make sure they did not touch the DoP header


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > The Ian FIFO II is not that cheap as you think, it needs isolator board and DACBOARD too, so including shipment we are talking about something in the range of $300.
> ...


 
  
 Hi B0bb,
  
 Yes, it has MCLK, but it doesn't have ESS but BB PCM5122 on board. And, yes, the driver to use the two separate clocks is already implemented in the latest distributions.
 They even fixed the 100% in alsamixer.
  
 Clocks on DAC+Pro aren't that special, and can't replace them because they are switched thru software (driver). It's not only the isolation which is important, the fifo reclocker does the most important job,
 and the dual clockboard does generate a very clean, phase noise free clocksignal. Isolator between them is just as expected I would say.
  
 No, in no way I could create same circumstances and having same SQ as with Ians products in the line, thanks for the tip but this really won't work.
  
 Btw, it seems DAC+Pro does NOT do DoP, I tried it but not working, it works with other I2S interfaces at same dac, so it's DAC+Pro who is not DoP compliant.


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Hahahaha, yes, better not mention JPlay
> 
> There indeed are many distro's who could compete with PiCoreplayer, but that is something I will try later on. First things first, have to have a good hardware setup.
> The Ian FIFO II is not that cheap as you think, it needs isolator board and DACBOARD too, so including shipment we are talking about something in the range of $300.
> ...




Oops, that Fifo is much more exp than I thought. But then you cant put a price on the perfect solution 
And yes the weather app lied a bit .. grill on the balcony was nevertheless very succesful 




cfgamescape said:


> Hi, yeah, I totally agree with you on everything. I've had the U12 for about a month and a half now. My PC is a very high-end gaming PC that has about 7k worth of parts, but I don't know if any of that benefits audio. I use Fidelizer Pro, which I think makes a difference.
> 
> Maybe I need to do some more A/B testing before I return the U12 (if I still can). I guess there is the peace-of-mind and/or placebo factor of having a DDC, among other things, in my chain, but I certainly don't have golden ears, short term audio memory or whatever some folks seem to have to be able to decern all these subtleties between devices.
> 
> ...



Your 7k super gaming rig may be a bit much. Generally, 'optimize for audio' is done by eliminating/disabling every single unused pc component, both hw and sw .. also regulated LPS power, nofan, etc. Whether those 'optimizations' make any diff is almost impossible for anyone to say in advance .. although many will tell you the night&day story . Hard to say if your pc has anything with the non-existing SQ diffs. Btw what dac?

The drv situation is same for pretty much all china ddc-s discussed around here. My guess is that they are not paying the thesycon licence. But the shady drivers are working very well and the u12 is prolly the best.. dont remember seeing any complains. 

And btw if you can/want to order from EU, there should be some cheap puc2 on ebay.de .. about €200 IIRC


----------



## CFGamescape

prot said:


> Your 7k super gaming rig may be a bit much. Generally, 'optimize for audio' is done by eliminating/disabling every single unused pc component, both hw and sw .. also regulated LPS power, nofan, etc. Whether those 'optimizations' make any diff is almost impossible for anyone to say in advance .. although many will tell you the night&day story
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the reply. My gaming PC is for...gaming. I got into audio stuff afterwards. It seems to be doing fine playing music through Tidal. I have no plans of replacing it with an optimized PC for audio. My DAC is the Schiit Bifrost MB. Amp is Lyr 2. Headphones Ether C.
  
 I'm going to keep the U12 and use that 3.2 driver. I'm at work so I can't attempt to download at the moment. Let me know how it works out for you. Thanks!


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> No problem. Glad you found some of my post to be useful or informative.
> 
> I recommend the intona over any device of its kind. Which are USB cleaners, reclocker , regen, isolators for power. But this intona is one of about 2 or three products that does isolation of the USB data. It uses two Spartan fpga' to break down and rebuild the data from the dirty to clean side.it's a great piece of gear to own if you use USB at all. Simply put, it will give you the most out of your USB.
> I have owned everything you can imagine from the Uptone regen, jitterbug, wyrd, etc etc. sold all of them except r wyrd, which is what my wife uses on her setup.
> ...


 
  I am now almost pushing the BUY button.
 Might go for the standard version.
 If I understand you right, with the Intona before my ddc I will not need anything else in the chain between pc and ddc?
 I can remove that Aqvox usb psu?
 It´s feeding the ddc with cleaner power.
 Maybe later buy a better 19v linear psu to my Intel NUC, or is that also overkill with the Intona in the chain?


----------



## motberg

caper said:


> I am now almost pushing the BUY button.
> Might go for the standard version.
> If I understand you right, with the Intona before my ddc I will not need anything else in the chain between pc and ddc?
> I can remove that Aqvox usb psu?
> ...


 

 I am using the standard Intona and it works great.
 The best would be to use the Aqvox to power the Intona, just hook it up same as you would to the DDC, but to the Intona. I assume the Aqvox has enough power.
 You do not want anything after the Intona unless it is an isolated device or battery powered. I suggest to use a good USB cable 0.5M or less between the Intona and your DDC.
 For the 0.5M USB cable, I like the Pangea AG... not so expensive and does not degrade the rest of my USB chain.
 (I am reclocking after the Intona using a battery powered Wyred 4 Sound "Recovery" device, but that may not be cost effective in every case)
 First check the status with the Intona, get used to the sound.. then if you want to try any upgrades after that buy with a return policy in case it is not worth the cost in your case.
 Note there are other options to the Intona now available and in planning that offer isolation, so make sure the Intona works for you before the trial period expires.


----------



## bimmer100

caper said:


> I am now almost pushing the BUY button.
> Might go for the standard version.
> If I understand you right, with the Intona before my ddc I will not need anything else in the chain between pc and ddc?
> I can remove that Aqvox usb psu?
> ...



I have the industrial version intona. The USB plugs are high retention and potentially are less resistance. Also the manufacturer stated the industrial version is most compatible with dacs compared to the standard version. It outputs slightly more power than the standard version. 

In my tests it's made the most difference on laptops and low end pc's or average spec builds. As most pc's have horrid psu's as well as most Macs too. Ripple is quite high from 15-30mV even!
And experiment with you Acvox. I don't know. Try with and without. Buts it's likely you won't need all the clutter IMHO. I personally wouldn't add anything after the intona. Everything I tried just made sound quality to suffer. Jitterbug, wyrd, regen etc. and I just use supra USB cable now. The LH labs 2g dual didn't make enough difference to justify try price. Basically about the same yet takes twice as many USB ports 

And there are other isolation options that do data and power... Now, but few I would trust to eliminate the 8khz packet noise. As that's really the main reason I keep the intona in my setup. That alone is worth t and makes USB worth using.


----------



## Caper

Thanks for your advice!
  
 Ordered the Intona standard, hopefully it´s enough for my needs.
  
 Maybe a stupid question but if I get rid of the Aqvox and buy a 19v LPS to my Intel NUC, would it be a better choise than just Aqvox?
 Or...use both 19v LPS to the NUC and also Aqvox to feed the Intona and then to the DDC?


----------



## Caper

I answer my own question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can´t really see the need for LPS to the Intel NUC as I will configure it.
 My config will be as follow:
  
 Intel NUC with a Sbooster Vbus2 isolator (blocker) connected at USB port, totally disconnects the USB train from dirty 5v.
https://www.sbooster.com/sbooster-tweaks/sbooster-vbus-isolator
  
 El cheapo USB cable for data transport.
  
 Aqvox USB PSU
http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
  
 Intona USB Isolator powered by the Aqvox.
  
 Supra USB cable to the F1 DDC.
  
 And finally Oehlbach coax cable from the F1 to my Hegels coax input.
  
 This should be a good solution and the final step in upgrading for now.
 But I have an eye open for the Pro4A also when it´s available in about two weeks.


----------



## motberg

This is a pretty concise read  and I think not posted here yet... has some info on packet noise, signal integrity, cable/connector impedance, etc..
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-audio-gremlins-exposed-beyond-1s-and-0s-ifi-audio#1MxBk7mve7ph6ZpM.97


----------



## abartels

motberg said:


> This is a pretty concise read  and I think not posted here yet... has some info on packet noise, signal integrity, cable/connector impedance, etc..
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-audio-gremlins-exposed-beyond-1s-and-0s-ifi-audio#1MxBk7mve7ph6ZpM.97


 
  
 Hi Tom,
  
 Thank you for sharing this link with us, it explains a lot!! It also explains why I am not very fond of USB for Audio in general....


----------



## abartels

*For the ones who finds my Raspberry Pi 3 + Hifiberry DAC+ Pro project interesting:*
  
 After 5 days of burn-in time I have to conclude that "first impressions", until now, *FAR* exceeds what I've expected!!
  
*What I did:*
  
 1- I took a basic RPI3
 2- I took a HifiBerry DAC+ Pro and soldered a 2-pin header for external 5V power, and a 5-pin header for I2S output.
 3- Mounted HifiBerry DAC+ Pro on Pi3's top
 4- From Hifiberry website I downloaded latest installer and installed PicorePlayer for DAC+Pro on MicroSD card
 5- Connected I2S to an older AK4495SEQ dac
 6- Powered RPI3+DAC+ Pro with ONE 5V (diyinhk 0.8uV ultra low noise psu), so NO power input thru RPI's Micro-USB input
  
*Things to consider:*
  
 The AK4495SEQ dac I used for this test was a previous one I used before I started my "Monster Dac project".
 This dac is sounding very well, but has an integrated power supply on board, it's a very big difference in SQ in comparison with my "Monster Dac"
 It's native SQ (connected to diyinhk isolated Xmos - just as in "Monster Dac") is a much less open sound character, less detailed and more compressed soundstage.
 Low frequencies are not that detailed, mid frequencies are not as natural, and it is not that airy (black around voices and instruments).
  
 On this AK4495SEQ dac I used a *NEW* "simple LME49720 - plastic version" opamp as output stage. This one hasn't burned-in yet too.
  
  
*The previous impressions:*
  
 Listening to this set during the past days was not that good at all, at least, in comparison with my "Monster dac". It changed every day in a positive way, but it didn't please me at all.
 (Don't forget that I am used to a very open soundstage, very natural sounding, very airy, just better than any analog I have ever heard, with massive Bass control which reaches to the
 deepest registers I've ever heard (and felt...))
 The soundfield was a bit fuzzy, no pinpoint precision, lack of bass control - but more powerful deep-bass. Voices seemed to sound different, not sure how to explain.
  
  
*So, how did the RPI perform yesterday, after 5 days of burn-in time (needs at least 7 days):*
  
 What I heard yesterday was amazing. I didn't expect this at all. It seemed that the soundstage had widened, *A LOT*, maybe even wider than my monster dac!
 There were several occasions where I heard lot's of phase-tricks in recordings, sounds which seemed to went out of the room, behind my head, everywhere!
 There wasn't any listening fatigue anymore, pinpoint precision was almost as good as my monster dac, bass was *VERY* deep and powerful, but still lacks control.
  
 But, what amazed me the most was it's sound character in total, not sure how to describe it, it's like, when comparing to my monster dac, the sound is more massive,
 it surrounds you and it seems voices have much more body and impact. It's almost as if my monster dac is sounding pinched, more like a studio recording, while RPI is more
 like a live concert, more rhythm and pace, it's just there!
  
 I can't imagine how it can sound when properly powered, fully burned-in, and connected to my monster dac instead if the isolated USB XMOS I've built in.
  
 I expect bass control to be better in the coming days because I know this opamp really needs it's burn-in time, and pinpoint precision and details will also gain.
  
 These are wild days in Audioland, heard a lot of "rumors" of using rpi for audio, but now I know why, it has a phenomenal potential, and, I will explore those completely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 To be continued.....


----------



## hgpsemaj

These two combination?


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> These two combination?


 
  
 Yes indeed Riemann


----------



## hgpsemaj

If possible, please upload your wired images.


----------



## hgpsemaj

Alex,
  
 Are you connecting you RPI3 to your PC via CAT7? or USB cable?? Please advise.
  
  
  
 Regards,
  
  
 Riemann


----------



## Benny-x

I guess I've been away from the DDC stuff for a while, but when I went to check the Tanly USB, XMOS, I2s link on taobao is said the item was no longer for sale. I can't find any other links to the Tanly and I always had thoughts to buy it. Did something happen while I stopped paying attention there? Is there a new one coming based on that new xu208 chip? Any info?


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Alex,
> 
> Are you connecting you RPI3 to your PC via CAT7? or USB cable?? Please advise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello Riemann,
  
 I have to take some shots, eh, meant, pictures this evening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will post them later!
  
 RPI is connected to my home network, on router from Internet provider, as is my laptop with LMS server on it.
 And yes, I use CAT7 with good quality connectors.
  
 So, absolutely NOOOOOO Usb 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
  
 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alex


----------



## abartels

benny-x said:


> I guess I've been away from the DDC stuff for a while, but when I went to check the Tanly USB, XMOS, I2s link on taobao is said the item was no longer for sale. I can't find any other links to the Tanly and I always had thoughts to buy it. Did something happen while I stopped paying attention there? Is there a new one coming based on that new xu208 chip? Any info?


 
  
 Hi Benny,
  
 Xingser SU-1 would be your choice for now ($300), OR, switch to RPI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Take a look at their website, they also have the F-1 module which seems to be very good, but has a steep pricetag for a single module ($150).
  
 Thought SU-1 is available from May 2016


----------



## Benny-x

abartels said:


> Hi Benny,
> 
> Xingser SU-1 would be your choice for now ($300), OR, switch to RPI
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I saw that and was checking it out. No pics of the internals yet, as far as I've seen on the thread. Did Rb get his yet, I saw he was ordering one?
  
 Thanks for answering though, Alex. I was also wondering if anyone else knew the Tanly was "gone"? The feedback on it was really high and the work inside the chassis with PCB isolation and whatever was great. I wonder if the SU-1 will turn out to be as well done. Maybe it just fell out of favour in the Chinese market because new things came out and that's how things work here?
  
 I'm always at a crossroads when looking at the China-fi stuff. Like everything else here, tech moves FAST. Like leading edge kind of stuff. But as we all know in the audio industry, it's not the part numbers that matter, it's the implementation. The guts of the parts can only take you so far, what makes the real difference is understanding and implementation. And it's nearly impossible for these China-fi companies to have that skilled implementation when things move so fast here. Some do, but that's what makes me go "hmm" about the SU-1. I hope it's good, though. Be happy to get something new. Looks like it's got the same issue as the Gustard I2s data and phase swap, according to the copied drawing.


----------



## abartels

benny-x said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Benny,
> ...


 
  
 Hi Benny,
  
 Don't know when rb will receive his, and you are right, no pictures of the internals yet, but when reading how they designed it, it could be a killer.
  
 Since technologies moves and improves like it does nowadays, it's always difficult to keep up with the latest specs. I suppose Tanly didn't sell that well anymore,
 especially after all the other devices who popped-up and seemed a real bargain.
  
 I couldn't find it anymore too, maybe ask our well known and appraised member hgpsemaj ( Riemann ), if Tanly is available, he can tell you, and, if you're looking for something special,
 or need to communicate with a Chinese manufacturer or seller, he can help you as well!
  
 For me, Xingser looks VERY promising, it has all good technologies combined, but, not sure if psu design is adequate enough.


----------



## motberg

benny-x said:


> I guess I've been away from the DDC stuff for a while, but when I went to check the Tanly USB, XMOS, I2s link on taobao is said the item was no longer for sale. I can't find any other links to the Tanly and I always had thoughts to buy it. Did something happen while I stopped paying attention there? Is there a new one coming based on that new xu208 chip? Any info?


 

 Hi Benny, seems he is working on a new design, see comments since late last year:
 http://tanly-audio.blogspot.hk/
 You can send an email to his gmail account.. English is no problem...


----------



## hgpsemaj

benny-x said:


> Yeah, I saw that and was checking it out. No pics of the internals yet, as far as I've seen on the thread. Did Rb get his yet, I saw he was ordering one?
> 
> Thanks for answering though, Alex. I was also wondering if anyone else knew the Tanly was "gone"? The feedback on it was really high and the work inside the chassis with PCB isolation and whatever was great. I wonder if the SU-1 will turn out to be as well done. Maybe it just fell out of favour in the Chinese market because new things came out and that's how things work here?
> 
> I'm always at a crossroads when looking at the China-fi stuff. Like everything else here, tech moves FAST. Like leading edge kind of stuff. But as we all know in the audio industry, it's not the part numbers that matter, it's the implementation. The guts of the parts can only take you so far, what makes the real difference is understanding and implementation. And it's nearly impossible for these China-fi companies to have that skilled implementation when things move so fast here. Some do, but that's what makes me go "hmm" about the SU-1. I hope it's good, though. Be happy to get something new. Looks like it's got the same issue as the Gustard I2s data and phase swap, according to the copied drawing.


 
  
  
 I just communicated with Tanly, Audio, they said Xmos/Tanly is still available for the price of RMB2900, and their latest image:


----------



## bimmer100

hgpsemaj said:


> These two combination?




Anyone have a link to this second device ? More info and specs? Price? Looks like some kind of i2s connection. Kind of interesting as I'm working on a soekris dual Dac build. I plan to use the waveIO but need or weigh options


----------



## hgpsemaj

bimmer100 said:


> Anyone have a link to this second device ? More info and specs? Price? Looks like some kind of i2s connection. Kind of interesting as I'm working on a soekris dual Dac build. I plan to use the waveIO but need or weigh options


 
  
 I wish it may assist:
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/44443361091.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ioEaKd#detail
  
 RMB187.


----------



## hugoboss

benny-x said:


> I guess I've been away from the DDC stuff for a while, but when I went to check the Tanly USB, XMOS, I2s link on taobao is said the item was no longer for sale. I can't find any other links to the Tanly and I always had thoughts to buy it. Did something happen while I stopped paying attention there? Is there a new one coming based on that new xu208 chip? Any info?


 
  
 there is  a new law in china online shop
 the product can't exceed the price limits there is a new regulation in the china goverment. not because the unit is not available but there is some restriction now.
 if your gogle tranlsate it will show something like that. not only tanly
 many product . most of it is the expensive ones.
  
 liek this i saw this available one month ago a new r2r dac holo spring
 but now cant buy it
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/527818416876.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-2612727925.7.EKJaig
  
 it said
  
"according to local laws and regulations or policy platform, under this limit orders to buy goods." this is in gogle translate​


----------



## bimmer100

Silly me. It's a Dac. Ak4495. I was browsing on my phone and assumed it could of been some sort of DDC but should of looked more closely.
I just noticed the white i2s plug.
Thank you anyhow. This isn't something I would use for my soekris project. But would be great for ultra compact Dac project.


----------



## prot

motberg said:


> This is a pretty concise read  and I think not posted here yet... has some info on packet noise, signal integrity, cable/connector impedance, etc..
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-audio-gremlins-exposed-beyond-1s-and-0s-ifi-audio#1MxBk7mve7ph6ZpM.97




A very good summary of the usb-gremlins. Wish that Lavorgna guy didnt put his name on a competent technical text written by ifi/amr (that's the guy who 'reviewed' the audioquest $10000 network cable and heartily 'recommended' it). 

However, all interfaces have their gremlins, I wont go so hard on Usb. Usb can actually sound very good .. and you surely dont need to buy the $1000 usb cable or go into crazy usb chains like intona+wyrd+regen+lpses+mega dollar cables. Just use your common sense like for everything else. Try to fix eventual electrical issues and use a 'normal' usb cable that is truly built to the 2.0 spec (e.g. supra, belkin gold, etc). A good and relatively cheap ddc like u12 may also help a lot .. especially with old and/or badly isolated dacs. 

Still, I think that abartels's no-usb experiment has the best potential from everything I saw around here. And should be quite cost-effective too. Especiqlly if you have the diy skills and a "monster dac"


----------



## prot

hugoboss said:


> liek this i saw this available one month ago a new r2r dac holo spring
> but now cant buy it
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/527818416876.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a312a.7700824.w4004-2612727925.7.EKJaig




That is a pretty interesting device. Do they use soekris modules or built their own r2r ladder? Any extra info you might have on the device, highly welcome.


----------



## hugoboss

this dac r2r i saw 1 or 2 month ago at taobao , i dont have any photo inside the machine
 but i know the seller previous flagship product it is called t-rex mk2
 
trexmk2 use *dual PCM1704 *
Analog parts:
1: Improved power supply part of the design, the new power supply is the use of a combination of parallel and in series, while keeping the old version of power ultimate low-noise (<1uV) premise, improved dynamic performance. Total power consumption has significantly increased to 40W
2: Improved analog amplifier circuit, amplifier circuit using a new version of the op-amp plus a combination of discrete components, play to their strengths, performance, and have been listening to a sense of balance
3: Increase the single-ended output, Legacy provides only a balanced output, although the single-ended output from the balanced outputs can be transferred out. But the new special single-ended output will undoubtedly end in a single system for better performance
4: Use high-quality O-100W transformer and rectifier and filter circuit has done a certain amount of optimization
 
 
  
*then he launched a new flagship call holo spring dac*
 he claimed it will use separate dac 1 for dsd 1 for pcm
 the price for preorder is 7800 yuan for standard version 8900 yuan for upgrade 4 pc jantzen capacitor
 then suddenly his product got something like i said can't buy like its violating chinese new law or whatever.
  
 so i jumped to audiogd new nos 7 dac


----------



## hugoboss

seems like your lucky day i have the product in detail in his facebook
  
 https://www.facebook.com/wildismaudiohk/posts/1723144021264279
  
  
*this is gogle translate*
  

  
  



  
  
  
HOLO Audio Springs Spring, latest full decode discrete R2R DAC

"The world's first to support DSD's R2R DAC"

Is expected to launch 4 to 5 months, the price is expected to less than 10k yuan, there jensen capacitor version and general version ..

First put some of the skill test report than reference

Interested can wts app or Call: 63,442,556 Jo
 Email: wildismaudio@yahoo.com.hk

After experienced Tyrannosaurus T-Rex1 and 2, the prehistoric era finally ended, T-Rex and his little friends about to usher in a new stage. "Spring" is the first design of a new era, a milestone for me. Stephen is a full discrete R2R type of decoder, he does not have ready-DAC chip, but with a self-designed core DAC module breakthroughs DAC chip, so as to achieve new heights.

* Re-invent the wheel. Yes, once again we invented a new wheel. Although the original round wheels have a classic design. Obviously, I do not like other designers, like, just to look a maverick invented a triangular or square wheels. This time, in order to get rid of the constraints DAC chip, I use the discrete components to form this R2R DAC module. This module is not only looks "cool." Performance and functionality are beyond any existing DAC chip.

* Supports DSD's R2R DAC. Stephen is the world's first to support DSD's R2R DAC, so far the only one. This is not the DSD converted to PCM before digital-analog converter, but directly by the discrete components of the DSD digital to analog converter.

* Spring with a variety of sampling mode and flexible conversion mode

1. NOS mode with no digital oversampling, the raw data directly to analog conversion.Because digital oversampling will produce time-domain distortions such as ringing, so NOS avoid these problems. Generally NOS other performance indicators have a significant impact, but spring is designed to allow in the NOS mode also maintained a good performance.
 2. OS mode, the PCM super-sampled PCM higher frequency, the DSD DSD supersampling to higher frequency, then digital to analog converter.
 3. OS PCM mode, regardless of the input is PCM or DSD input over all sampled PCM approach to digital to analog converter
 4. OS DSD mode, regardless of the input PCM or DSD input over all sampled DSD approach to digital to analog converter

* Springs digital input interfaces include, USB (ground isolation), RCA, BNC, AES, fiber optic, HDMI interface I2S. All digital input interface supports DSD (DOP mode).Springs analog outputs are single-ended and balanced each group.

Spring is the DAC a R2R structure, and modern popular delta-sigma type DAC different, R2R within a clock can be restored analog value sample point, and the delta-sigma through after oversampling for high-speed digital 0 and 1 represents a switch to analog. In comparison, the conversion structure R2R direct and pure, but delta-sigma is essentially a digital chip, high-speed 0 and digital signal switching to a low-pass filter to the analog signal process is prone to various problems, generate digital taste, but also in the super-sampling process will inevitable cause some ringing distortion. But DAC R2R structure requires high-precision resistor network, the cost is very expensive. The chip is a digital delta-sigma DAC essence on, so low cost.

 

 

sorry for out of this thread topic


----------



## abartels

Nice find!


----------



## abartels

abartels said:


> *For the ones who finds my Raspberry Pi 3 + Hifiberry DAC+ Pro project interesting:*
> 
> After 5 days of burn-in time I have to conclude that "first impressions", until now, *FAR* exceeds what I've expected!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 After 7 days of burn-in I listened again to RPI and DAC+Pro.
  
 It really sounds VERY good!
 Of course it's not that airy as my monster dac, and also bass control is less, but that is something which is inevitable when using this AK4495SEQ in comparison to my "monster dac".
  
 It still has a very wide soundstage, very 3-dimensional sounding, and it has a beautiful "punch", full body. 
  
 I couldn't wait and powered 3.3V and 5V for DAC+ Pro external. This improved it again. It's a combo I could live with, definitely!
  
 Very curious how it would sound in combination with my "monster dac", but that has to wait since I sold my "monster dac" to a friend of mine.
  
 Since the DAC+ Pro uses mediocre TCXO's from ExpressO, it can't reach the best quality. And, sadly those tcxo'x can't be replaced very easily because they have
 an on/off function. This means I would have to design a relay board before I could use NDK's.....
  
 I will investigate this further, I'm very eager to try the Ian Canada FIFO II - Isolation board - Dual TCXO board, this should bring it to an absolute phenomenal SQ level.
 The Ian Canada solution is independent from quality of clocks at it's input because it rebuild / regenerates everything completely new. But it has it's pricetag....
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

Please note, RS and E14 are officially authorised to manufacture RPI3 which are in England and China respectively:
  
 RS (i.e. Made in England.) Product:

  
 E14 (i.e. Made in China.) Product:

  
 Additional heat sinks may be needed for RPI3:


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Please note, RS and E14 are officially authorised to manufacture RPI3 which are in England and China respectively:
> 
> RS (i.e. Made in England.) Product:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for pointing me to this! Heatsinks are unnecessary since PiCorePlayer only uses about 10% max of cpu performance, it's absolutely not getting hot.
  
 If using it with upsampling features then you probably could better cool it with heatsinks


----------



## abartels

Listening to it right now, sounding VERY good! I have a good memory for how devices sounded before, I can say this couple almost is as airy as my "monster dac" fed with I2S from Isolated XMOS.
 Voices (body) are better (as is piano), 3D effects are more present, bass response is not as tight as I'm used to, but that could easily be the difference in LME49720 plastic vs metal can.
 Have to test that, but metal can (HA version) has to burn-in.
  
 Can't imagine how it would sound in my dac..... (the two were VERY different in soundcharacter before, the "old" AK4495 was not in the same league, now it is, and on some fields it's even better.....)
  
 Tonight I know if my "monster dac" has been sold, so it could take a while before I can test it with RPI, will definitely build me a new one


----------



## hgpsemaj

Please note, diyinhk has newly released a Xmos USB to I2S Interface:

  
*Feature:*

1) Newest XMOS XCORE-200 2000MIPS 2 Tiles 16 Cores upto 2000MIPS in dual issue mode

2) 4 layer PCB, Solid ground plane (a must for high speed digital circuit)

3) NDK NZ2520SD Ultra low phase noise oscillator and Murata capacitor sourced from Japan directly (guarantee no fake product from China)
 According to the official datasheet, the phase noise of NZ2520SD is much better than the famous crystek 957 under 25khz(human listenable range)
 For easier comparsion(lower is better), we overlay the two phase noise graph at the same scale, under 25khz(human listenable range) nz2520sd(red line) is better, over 25khz(human unlistenable range) crystek 957 is better.

4) Dedicated I2C port for the OLED VU meter display to avoid using the same I2C port control the DAC/ADC chip(if needed) which can causes interference to the DAC/ADC chip (common fault in most design on the market)

5) OLED display is the latest technology with highest contrast, complete dark background, full viewing angle and it looks much better than the commonly used LCD display.

6) Full copper one piece housing, gold plated(not cheaper gold flash) high quality Molex USB connector.

7) Compact size 50mm x 50mm

8) PCB is powered by external 3.3V(800mA max. 400mA typ.) regulated supply, it is usually connected to the same 3.3v digital power DAC is using(warning: over-voltage or reverse-voltage can damage the xmos chip immediately, double check before power on)

 

For further information:

http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/107-xmos-dsd-dxd-768khz-high-quality-usb-to-i2sdsd-pcb.html#/xmos_option-xmos_768k_pcb


----------



## robertsong

caper said:


> I answer my own question
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks great except the "El cheapo cable for data transport". That cable matters too. I would go with something at least as good as the Supra.
  
 Oh, and a linear PSU will definitely help on your NUC2. But it's the top priority here because they are expensive. Worry about everything else you listed first. Just my opinion.


----------



## Caper

robertsong said:


> Looks great except the "El cheapo cable for data transport". That cable matters too. I would go with something at least as good as the Supra.


 
 Ok, I can pick up one Supra more at my local store.
 Pretty cheap cables here, made in Sweden.


----------



## abartels

abartels said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > *For the ones who finds my Raspberry Pi 3 + Hifiberry DAC+ Pro project interesting:*
> ...


 
  
*Comparison "Monster Dac" with USB - isolated XMOS - I2S interface VS Low Cost AK4495SEQ Dac with RPI3 - DAC+Pro - I2S interface:*
  
 Setup:
  
 1- HP Probook i7 - 16Gb RAM - Server 2012 - 2x 250 GB SSD - Audiophile Optimizer - JRiver as player - connected with USB to "Monster Dac"
  
 2- HP Probook i7 - 16Gb RAM - Server 2012 - 2x 250 GB SSD - Audiophile Optimizer - LMS server (Logitech Music Server)
  
 Both JRiver and LMS server running simultaneous on HP Probook.
  
*Both "Monster Dac" and Low cost AK4495SEQ Dac use LME49720 as output stage.*
  
  
*To begin with:*
  
 I bought the low cost Chinese AK4495SEQ last year, just to check out the performance and sound characteristics of AKM AK4495SEQ chip.
 Since I wanted to build a new dac I could decide whether this chip had a sound character I liked and if I would base my new dac design on it.
  
 This little baby performed very well, but in it's stock version it was not as airy as I had in mind, so I started to mod it with lots of Nichicon FG caps,
 Cree diodes, different opamp as output stage and more. At the end it sounded fabulous, especially when I connected Diyinhk Isolated Xmos to it.
 The design of this dac incorporates 1x psu for output stage, and 1x psu (with several regulators) for Digital section.
  
 Since it's fabulous performance I decided to build my new dac, based on this AK4495SEQ chip.
  
 I started designing and building and eventually finished my "Monster Dac"
  
 First listening sessions I was amazed about it's airyness, bass control, big deep wide soundstage, lots of blackness around voices and instruments.
 It was a huge step forward from the little baby.
  
*So, where are we now, today?*
  
 I connected both dac's and played 2 albums on them, running simultaneous from HP Probook.
 If I wanted to switch between dac's, I only had to switch between them on my pre-amp.
  
*To begin with, they sound almost identical!!!*
  
 - Monster Dac has a little better bass control (and definition in it's lower frequencies), it's a tiny bit more airy, and it seems (not 100% sure) if it's more quiet, more black around voices and instruments.
  
 - RPI has better vocal body and seems to have more 3D artifacts. It's bass output is more evident.
  
 The two are VERY close to each other in this setup.
  
*Conclusion:*
  
 Since low cost AK4495SEQ performed incredibly different when using isolated XMOS, it couldn't walk in Monster Dac's shadow, I have to conclude that:
  
*RPI3 + DAC+ Pro > I2S output > based on PiCorePlayer and LMS server, is running circles around isolated xmos solution*.
 It's a VERY good performing solution!
  
*AND*
  
 Keep in mind, RPI3 + DAC+ Pro together cost around $100. Software (LMS server and PiCorePlayer) are freeware.
  
 Isolated XMOS interface cost about the same, but it needs:
  
 1- Very stable OS and drivers
 2- Optimized OS for Audio only
 3- Powerful CPU
 4- Needs to pay for Player software if one wants to remote control it with Graphical Interface on iPad or Android device
 5- Needs optimized USB port on PC
 6- Needs USB optimizing equipment like Intona / Regen / iFi purifiers and others (which will let you break the bank.......)
 7- Needs high quality USB cable (which will let you break the bank.......)
  
 Keep in mind, I also installed LMS server on my Daily work laptop, which I am typing this review on.
 I connected PiCorePlayer to this LMS server (it finds it automatically in the network) and played music from it.
 There was NO sonic difference between Setup-2 and this setup!!! So, NO need for expensive hardware to run LMS server!!!
  
*Second thought:*
  
 You can use RPI3 + DAC+ Pro in every room in your house, if you have network connection. You can use same LMS server, and, even Analog output sound quality of RPI3 + DAC+ Pro is rather good!!!
 I suppose that there are many expensive dac's out there which perform much less than this little baby! (if connected separate psu's the way I did).
  
*Final thoughts:*
  
 I will have to modify my Monster Dac to replace it's I2S interface with RPI3 + DAC+ Pro combo, more on that next week or so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*Last word:*
  
 Since this RPI3 + DAC+ Pro combination is performing that well, it asks for the best of the best, which is Ian Canada's FIFO II solution with Isolation board and Dual XO II clock board.
 I ordered them today, so, let's have some fun the next weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Wish you all a prosperous week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alex


----------



## prot

I see you are fighting hard against the USB gremlins  ... and looks like you are close to announcing a big victory 

And btw, MSB is selling an 'upgraded' USB input-board for about $2000 ... your improved no-usb solution should be worth at least $1000 more


----------



## Caper

robertsong said:


> Looks great except the "El cheapo cable for data transport". That cable matters too. I would go with something at least as good as the Supra.
> 
> Oh, and a linear PSU will definitely help on your NUC2. But it's the top priority here because they are expensive. Worry about everything else you listed first. Just my opinion.


 
 Yeah, I will let the F1 settle along with the Intona.
 Already picked up another Supra USB cable.
  
 Seen a couple of nice LPS but they are indeed pretty expensive.
 Because the NUC runs on 19V I will try out to run it from pure battery power.
 If that improves SQ much I might add a LPS later.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> I see you are fighting hard against the USB gremlins  ... and looks like you are close to announcing a big victory
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
@prot
 Hahahahaha, yessss, victory is mine, hahahahaha
  
  
 @ALL
  
 You know, since I used Server 2012, in combination with AO, I was VERY pleasant surprised about it's SQ. Even more when I used DualPC setup with JPlay.
 Then I started with investigating USB-DDC, and it seemed it sounded much better than my expensive PC Audio-Card with SPDIF-out.
 So, it was DDC I was putting my efforts in. Suddenly the USB-regen hype started, and I must admit, those devices DO make a difference.
 But, since they ALL do, and since they STILL do if you put several in series, in series with purifiers, and all those other miracle devices, using usb-cabling for which you can buy
 a whole NAS to store your complete music collection on, it got me thinking.......
  
 If SPDIF signal was that kind of "Fragile", it would have been abandoned years ago. I know, there's professional use of USB too, but, look at what they are using.....
 and what does it all cost,,,,,
  
 Of course I can't deny I2S isn't meant for external usage, but still, if implemented the right way, and if using good quality (shielded) connection wires, it still is the best way to go.
 Why (I hear people thinking,,,,), why oh why?
  
 It's quite simple,,, (and I know, there are LOTS of commercial guys who LOVE to tell you a lot of gibberish to convince you I2S is s**t, maybe they do profit in some way or the other from.....??)
  
 I2S is chips internal language, they talk to each other in I2S. Lets say your native language is English, you want to tell a story to a friend of yours,but you only have the option to tell it to a Chinese guy, a translator,
 who in turn will try to tell it to your English speaking friend.
*So, what happens is this:*
 You tell your story to the Chinese translator, the translator *tries* to understand what you are saying and *tries* to tell the story, in his best English, to the English guy......
 The English guy is *trying* to understand what the Chinese translator is *trying* to tell him...
  
 Does this sound familiar?
 Hmm, is it possible there COULD go something wrong, OR, is it evident that there WILL go something wrong? 
  
  
 I am exaggerating right now, but you get the drift.....
  
  
 If, and ONLY IF, you follow design rules, and keep I2S signal wires as short as possible, using U.FL wires for internal usage, or external
 VERY GOOD SHIELDED cabling, as short as possible, you will profit from I2S.
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For internal usage, it still is BEST option.
  
 So, if you could find a solution to incorporate a very tiny small pc including directly I2S output, which also included music player software which directly could connect to a music server,
 that music server could be a NAS or a simple laptop, and it's I2S quality could be very very good, could it be that this solution would bring you a very high SQ?
  
 I have the answer: YES IT DOES
  
  
 The quest has just begon, and I already am miles ahead of where I left off (USB).......


----------



## auvgeek

bimmer100 said:


> Finally got around to modding a Breeze DUU8 with crystek 957's. And it sounds fantastic. I want to spend a little more time and compare with my AGD DIU8 with NDK's but it's really damn close. Surely a nice bump in SQ over the stock JYEC gold clocks. Those obviously have inflated specs. The soundstage on the breeze is surely improved and a touch more bass texture/control yet a touch on the high end of clarity with no hints of distortion.
> 
> This mod went quite well. Here are a few photos of the process.
> 
> ...


 

@bimmer100 modded my Breeze DU-U8, which I lent him partially so he could review it and we agreed that he should mod it while he had it there. It sounds SO good. The Crystek 957s seem to improved the soundstage and bass the most. The soundstage is obviously wider with a bit better imaging than before. That bass though! It seems to dig deeper with more punch (i.e., better dynamics) while still being tighter and more detailed than before. The highs are also clearer and more detailed, while still retaining the laid-back, non-fatiguing nature of the stock Breeze. Keep in mind my impressions are with the stock power cord, as my Graphene Extreme PC is currently being shipped back to me from my parent's house. But ~$100 for the clocks and dip14 sockets/boards seems definitely worthwhile to me, if you have the DIY skills.
  
 If we're going off @rb2013s scale with the stock Breeze with GE power cord is 108 (98 without) and the stock U12 is 72, I'd place the Breeze with new clocks at 120-125 and, assuming the GE cable has the same effect as before (+10 points), you get a total score of 130-135. Maybe my numbers are inaccurate—there's a lot of interpolation off his scale, and I don't really understand what the numbers mean. But the point is that for $220, you can get an amazing DDC.


----------



## abartels

And yet another USB-Miracle shows-up on the horizon: http://ideonaudio.com/3r-usb.html


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> And yet another USB-Miracle shows-up on the horizon: http://ideonaudio.com/3r-usb.html


Nice find. Looks like a (possibly) improved regen. Still no true galvanic iso afaics. 

And btw did anyone try ifi's new filter? http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-dcipurifier/. Any audible effects?
And are there some usb adapter connectors for it?


----------



## auvgeek

prot said:


> Nice find. Looks like a (possibly) improved regen. Still no true galvanic iso afaics.


 
 Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can anyone explain (simply) the difficulty in designing a device with a reclocker (Regen, etc) AND galvanic isolation (Intona)?


----------



## rb2013

auvgeek said:


> @bimmer100 modded my Breeze DU-U8, which I lent him partially so he could review it and we agreed that he should mod it while he had it there. It sounds SO good. The Crystek 957s seem to improved the soundstage and bass the most. The soundstage is obviously wider with a bit better imaging than before. That bass though! It seems to dig deeper with more punch (i.e., better dynamics) while still being tighter and more detailed than before. The highs are also clearer and more detailed, while still retaining the laid-back, non-fatiguing nature of the stock Breeze. Keep in mind my impressions are with the stock power cord, as my Graphene Extreme PC is currently being shipped back to me from my parent's house. But ~$100 for the clocks and dip14 sockets/boards seems definitely worthwhile to me, if you have the DIY skills.
> 
> If we're going off @rb2013s scale with the stock Breeze with GE power cord is 108 (98 without) and the stock U12 is 72, I'd place the Breeze with new clocks at 120-125 and, assuming the GE cable has the same effect as before (+10 points), you get a total score of 130-135. Maybe my numbers are inaccurate—there's a lot of interpolation off his scale, and I don't really understand what the numbers mean. But the point is that for $220, you can get an amazing DDC.


 

 Great to hear the Breeze responded well to the better Cyrstek clocks.  It certainly is a great unit. 
  
 The point rating is just a relative scale - 100 just being approx the stock Breeze with the Talema transformer.  I agree made significantly better by the Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power cord (what happened to that guy?- he disappeared after I made him so popular.  Even had a audio reviewer contact me about reviewing his cables - as he could not reach him).
  
 Anyway - this new class of USB DDCs based on the lastest XMOS 1000MIPS XU208 chip have just catapulted over the Breeze, Pro3a and the PUC 2 lite.
  
 I would say the Singxer F-1 using Crystek CCHD 575 audio clocks, NDK SD clock for USB - is in a whole other league.  I just finished burnin at 200 hrs and would put it at 150-155.  With the improvements I have made in my data and ps chains - now the package at 170ish. It's that good.  The Singxer X-1 based on the 1000MIPS XU208 as well but with NDK SD audio and USB clocks at 140-145.  The F-1 is king right now - it uses very advanced FPGA USB isolation, multiple ultra low noise ADI LDO regulators, etc...
  
 Here is the thread I started to track these amazing devices:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 Cheers!





 
  
 PS There is much to go with USB and SPDIF as far as SQ improvements go.  Although I may have pushed the edge of the envelope as far as possible now. I use my old $30K analog system as a reference - this has surpassed it!  At a fraction of the total cost.
  
 Three cheers for PC Audio!!!  And my old analog turntable could never have 3TB of music - 30 different playlists - mixing SACD, Redbook WAV, Digitalized LP's (at 32/176K), DVD-A's - all in one playlist!


----------



## hgpsemaj

Additional image of the diyinhk's Xmos XU216 2000MIPS PCB


----------



## auvgeek

rb2013 said:


> (what happened to that guy?- he disappeared after I made him so popular.  Even had a audio reviewer contact me about reviewing his cables - as he could not reach him).


 
 According to the audiogon forums, he's just busy working 16 hour days and it takes him a while to respond to email.
  
 I'd love to grab a pair of interconnects, but I can't afford retail and I seriously doubt he has any interest in selling them at a discount now that he's so popular. It'll probably have to be an "after grad school" purchase...


----------



## rb2013

auvgeek said:


> According to the audiogon forums, he's just busy working 16 hour days and it takes him a while to respond to email.
> 
> I'd love to grab a pair of interconnects, but I can't afford retail and I seriously doubt he has any interest in selling them at a discount now that he's so popular. It'll probably have to be an "after grad school" purchase...


 

 I understand - but after buying three power cables from him and inquiring about the IC's he never answered my email!  That after generating incredible demand for his products by blogging about them.  Before I mentioned them - he was selling them at a 50% discount in Audiogon ads.
  
 Not a way of saying thanks...


----------



## auvgeek

rb2013 said:


> I understand - but after buying three power cables from him and inquiring about the IC's he never answered my email!  That after generating incredible demand for his products by blogging about them.  Before I mentioned them - he was selling them at a 50% discount in Audiogon ads.
> 
> Not a way of saying thanks...


 
  
 He has interconnects for sale on Audiogon right now for quite cheap (nearly 1/2 off).


----------



## rb2013

auvgeek said:


> He has interconnects for sale on Audiogon right now for quite cheap (nearly 1/2 off).


 

 Didn't know - thanks!
  
 PS Actually the digital cable look interesting...just sent an offer $199.
  
 Let's see if he replies.  He may be mad at me - on the last order (my third) for the GE power cord - it was three weeks without hearing from him.  I mean not a word - then I sent two PMs, about three days apart - no reply.  The cable was fully paid for upfront of course.  Finally a week later he shipped it - never returning my message.
  
 Great cables - lousy businessman.


----------



## prot

auvgeek said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can anyone explain (simply) the difficulty in designing a device with a reclocker (Regen, etc) AND galvanic isolation (Intona)?



The hard part is the galvanic iso. Chips who can do that at full usb2.0 speed are rare, new and expensive. Afaik Intona has the only commercial chip right now .. few others are rumored to come. 
 And btw the intona device actually does both isolation and "regen". If you *really* need to clean your usb signal that is the device to buy right now.


----------



## bimmer100

I'm sure I can get ahold of Robert @cerious.
 I've been talking quite a bit with him over the last week. I've ordered about 3 cables recently, and had another half dozen ordered from friends. Along with a group buy deal i'm putting together. What questions do you want to know?


----------



## bimmer100

hgpsemaj said:


> I found some commercial gimmicks in TaoBao today:
> 
> Q-1  Xmos/XU208 @RMB239.00 each,
> 
> ...


 
 Is there any more info on the F1?  as in...is it powered with USB only? or can it accept external PSU...any instructions on this? and what is the pin/out for this?
  
 I would consider integrating this into my M11 as the form factor might be possible. But the PSU would be relevant.


----------



## hugoboss

@bimmer
 you can use dual head usb cable with the 5volt going to linear psu.
 iam gonna use this way


----------



## Caper

bimmer100 said:


> Is there any more info on the F1?  as in...is it powered with USB only? or can it accept external PSU...any instructions on this? and what is the pin/out for this?
> 
> I would consider integrating this into my M11 as the form factor might be possible. But the PSU would be relevant.


 
 I am going to use one Aqvox psu feeding Intona USB isolator and then to the F1.


----------



## abartels

Hi guys,
  
 Just for your information, since half a year there's a new Crystek TCXO called the CCHD-950.
 This is probably the best commercial TCXO (not talking about Pulsar clocks of $350......)


----------



## hgpsemaj

bimmer100 said:


> Is there any more info on the F1?  as in...is it powered with USB only? or can it accept external PSU...any instructions on this? and what is the pin/out for this?
> 
> I would consider integrating this into my M11 as the form factor might be possible. But the PSU would be relevant.


 
  
  
 Q1, X1 & F1 could be powered either (i) via USB only, or (ii) via an external 5V PS, but it would still consume 5V via USB simultaneously. And, you may need to remove some parts, if you adopt external 5V method.
 I did asked for the images in respect of removing those parts. However, the supplier hasn't got any for this very moment. He also insists that this requires a certain ability to perform such task, and generally is not recommended.
  
  
 有關 Q1,X1 和 F1, 我要幫 Head-Fi 論擅一眾確定一些電源問題.(i) Q1,X1 和 F1,都可單獨地從 USB 供電; 或 (ii) 拆掉隔离电源模块，然后单独使用5v直接供电给音频那边,但它同時需要從USB口輸入5V電.



對嗎?



xiu305470199

是的



xiu305470199

音频那边可以单独5V供电，同时USB这边用USB供电就可以了。



  


 18​

 18:47​
有 '拆掉隔离电源模块' 的圖片嗎?



xiu305470199

没有哦



ok,



xiu305470199

这个需要一定的动手能力的，一般不推荐改动


----------



## hgpsemaj

bimmer100 said:


> Is there any more info on the F1?  as in...is it powered with USB only? or can it accept external PSU...any instructions on this? and what is the pin/out for this?
> 
> I would consider integrating this into my M11 as the form factor might be possible. But the PSU would be relevant.


 
  
 F1 Xmos USB

  
1 , full isolation technology, 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC;
  
2, source synchronous shaping technology and CPLD technology, I2S signal isolation after the re-shaping; thus eliminating the isolation chip to bring added jitter;
  
3, the independent development of the system clock, using CRYSTEK customized high-performance crystal, ultra-low phase noise, low jitter.
 F-1 digital interface is our team to develop a high-performance USB digital audio interface, using the XMOS latest xCORE-200 series chips. F-1 is a digital interface, ultra-low jitter clock system. F-1 digital input interface using a standard USB2.0 interface, while F-1 has a wealth of output interfaces, including coaxial RCA and I2S interfaces.
  
 Features:
 1, F-1 is the first onr,using the latest XMOS xCORE-200 series of high-end USB digital interface products. New generation XMOS chip, using more advanced process technology, performance than the older chip U8 doubled, reaching 1000MIPS processing capabilities.
 2, it is known, the weight of the core is digital audio algorithms. Our team in the field of digital audio work for many years, and the strong support of XMOS FAE team, we conducted a number of technical improvements and optimization algorithms on the basis of the original firmware.
  
 Specifications:
 Each output interface supports sample rates:
 PCM: 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz,
    176.4KHz, 192KHz, 352.8KHz, 384KHz
     [Wherein I2S out support full sample rate, S / PDIF supports up to 192KHz]
 DSD: 2.8 MHz (DSD64) - DoP, native
     5.6 MHz (DSD128) - DoP, native
     11.2 MHz (DSD256) - DOP, native
      [Wherein all DSD format support I2S out, S / PDIF and AES / EBU support DSD64 DOP mode]
 Bits wide: the highest 32 bit over I2S output
 The highest 24 bit over S / PDIF
  
 Screw position, I2S pin position is fully compatible with Italy Amanero module
 The entire board with three crystal design, all are imported SMD crystal using active crystal. Wherein the audio oscillator is CRYSTEK CCHD series customized version of the crystal.
  
 Each interface electrical standards:
 1, USB input socket is a standard USB-B type female, USB power supply range 4.5V-5.1V;
 2, RCA connector outputs standard S / PDIF signal level is 550mV (standard connection load), the output impedance of 75 ohms;
  
 Design details:
 1, carry out electricity as the mother of the acoustic design concept, pay attention to the power supply circuit design, high-performance, low noise and fast response LDO as the main power source. The entire board using a 2-way power supply independent LDO, wherein the clock section even using ADI's ultra low noise LDO, in order to ensure the ultimate output performance laid a solid foundation.
 2, PCB board with 4-layer circuit board design, ensure that you have full power and ground plane layer, using the method of high-speed digital design, signal integrity and power integrity of the entire board. The clock signal for special treatment, using package design and precise impedance control, thereby ensuring the signal quality and increase the clock anti-jamming capability. Input and output signals follow a standard design, especially high-speed USB signals using a 90 ohm differential impedance control.
  
 System Compatibility:
 1, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 8; 32/64 bit, you need to install special drivers
 2, Native MacOS 10.6 and later, using the system comes with drivers
 3, Native Linux with UAC2 compliant kernel, using the system comes with drivers
 4, Android OS 4.2 and above, the need to support OTG function.
  
  
  
 I2S signal output socket Description:
 1, MUTE is high mute; the DSD data stream DSD_ON high level;
 2. All electrical average LVCMOS, voltage of 3.3V;
 3, VD3.3 output power, low output current 50mA;
 4, MCLK clock output 22.5792Mhz or 24.576Mhz;
 5, FS0, FS1, FS2 is sampling rate indicator level, but FS3 not;
 ​ 6, LRCLK = DSDR, SDATA = DSDL, BCLK = DCLK.
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
*WARM WARNING: diyinhk has launched Xmos XU216 2000MIPS recently.*


----------



## hgpsemaj

abartels said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just for your information, since half a year there's a new Crystek TCXO called the CCHD-950.
> This is probably the best commercial TCXO (not talking about Pulsar clocks of $350......)


 
  
 Looks great, what's the RRP? You sure it could match NDK NZ2520SD?
  
  
 Regards,


----------



## abartels

It sells for about $20
  
 Below 1000 Hz NDK NZ2520SD still is better, but I think this is a very good performer.
  
 It seems it's not only the low Phase Noise that's important for audio.
 There are OCXO's who sound better than NDK but have Phase Noise specs which are worse, so I'm not sure.
  
 Crystal, for sure, is a company which designed, developed and produced audio xo's for a very long time.
 The first ones I bought from them was at the beginning of the nineties, when I developed and produced a commercial dac with Crystal Semiconductor (nowadays Cirrus Logic) CS4328 and CS8412.
 Crystal even advised in their whitepapers to use the Crystek TCXO's back then.
  
 Until now I didn't compare NDK with Crystek soundwise, probably I will when I have Ian's FIFO II - Isolator - Dual Clockboard II working with my RPI.
 The clockboard has sockets so very simple to change the XO's. I have 45.xxx - 49.xxx NDK's at hand, will use them first, and order the Crystek 950's to compare.
  
 Later on I will try OCXO's, as you advised me 
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## Caper

prot said:


> Oh wow, didnt even take two hours since I mentioned in the other usb/ddc thread that the next 'usb wonder' is coming soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I havent followed all threads, what is " alex's no-usb solution" ??


----------



## prot

See abartels' posts in this very thread 
Basically you put an rpi inside the dac. Music bytes go from rpi to an i2s filter and then directly to the dac via i2s. Like mentioned, no usb, no extra boxes, cables, etc. Sounds like a winner to me. And his first experiments seem to be quite encouraging in the SQ department.


----------



## Superdad

robertsong said:


> Question for Superdad: Have you considered designing a state of the art DDC with your upcoming uber-Regen built-in?


 

 Oh wow.  Well the answer(s) to that question would be rather complicated and involve my revealing a lot of forward-looking things--and new interfaces--that John Swenson and I (well he's the engineer, I'm just 'Jobs') are cooking up.  
  
 A big part of the answer is no. And it is not because John doesn't know how to design world-class S/PDIF inputs and outputs (for which there is far more to than what I see discussed here).  Take a look at the Sonore Signature Rendu, an Ethernet>S/PDIF (and also I2S over LVDS) renderer.  Yes, it is pricy at $3K, but that is largely due to the cost of the Ethernet renderer module that Sonore OEMs from elsewhere.  The S/PDIF output stage (and the LVDS I2S output) is a Swenson-designed board and considered among the greatest S/PDIF outputs ever.  And then, on the other side, for S/PDIF in, the input of the BottleHead DAC he designed is chock full of innovation.
  
 But the truth is, the whole clock-embedded S/PDIF interface is a flawed dead end (sacrilege!).  And the S/PDIF inputs of DACs have wild variability as well.  So sure, USB is not perfect--especially due to the many stumbles we see in USB input stages and USB>I2S board designs--but that's what the computer OSs support best at this point in time, and until there are broadly compatible, open-source "virtual sound card" Ethernet drivers, USB is here to stay if one wants commercial (read compatible) viability.
  
 And all a great USB>S/PDIF interface says to me is that the DAC's USB interface should have been done better.  Believe me, I am tempted every week to consider working with John on an awesome USB>S/PDIF (and I2S) converter.  But neither of our hearts would be in it, and while the REGEN is modestly priced enough, I don't think people would be too pleased with what we would have to sell a SOTA DDC for.
  
 Yet there are other ways to approach USB interfaces.  Ways that promise to overcome most all the cable, ports, power supply, and computer issues--as in making none of that stuff matter any more.  It involves splitting the whole thing into two ends, with a really accurate and robust interface in between.  And completely different tech and electrical signaling than is used anywhere else in audio.  Can't say more.
 Trouble is, the question then becomes what is at the "DAC end" of this new interface?  Not another USB or S/PDIF output--yuck--defeats the purpose.  I2S over LVDS?  Sure, but that limits popularity with DACs--and still the master clocking is not where you want it, which is close to the DAC chip.  What one wants is a DAC with this interface built in.  Which leads us to either enticing OEMs to embrace and license a new solution, and/or do our own DAC to demonstrate the tech.
  
 But we have two other products to get into production first--and I have already said way too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Have a great weekend everyone.
  
 --Alex C.
  
 P.S.  Took my wife and kids to see Paul McCartney at the Fresno Savemart Center (16K sold out seats) last night.  As our 14 year old son put it, "the sound was like ass", but our seats were great and Sir Paul puts on a great show!


----------



## robertsong

superdad said:


> But we have two other products to get into production first--and I have already said way too much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha. Thank you very much for that info. Greatly appreciated. I'll keep an eye out for the uber.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Oh wow.  Well the answer(s) to that question would be rather complicated and involve my revealing a lot of forward-looking things--and new interfaces--that John Swenson and I (well he's the engineer, I'm just 'Jobs') are cooking up.
> 
> A big part of the answer is no. And it is not because John doesn't know how to design world-class S/PDIF inputs and outputs (for which there is far more to than what I see discussed here).  Take a look at the Sonore Signature Rendu, an Ethernet>S/PDIF (and also I2S over LVDS) renderer.  Yes, it is pricy at $3K, but that is largely due to the cost of the Ethernet renderer module that Sonore OEMs from elsewhere.  The S/PDIF output stage (and the LVDS I2S output) is a Swenson-designed board and considered among the greatest S/PDIF outputs ever.  And then, on the other side, for S/PDIF in, the input of the BottleHead DAC he designed is chock full of innovation.
> 
> ...


 

 Great post - I laugh when I look at my EMU 1616M from 11 years ago (still a great ADC for digitalizing LP's), it used it's own PCIe card linking to the main box by CAT5 ethernet!  Maybe we should have stayed down that road.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!
 http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct05/articles/emu1616m.htm


----------



## abartels

> *Comparison "Monster Dac" with USB - isolated XMOS - I2S interface VS Low Cost AK4495SEQ Dac with RPI3 - DAC+Pro - I2S interface:*
> 
> Setup:
> 
> ...


 
  
*Update 14-04-2016:*
  
 Last night had a short listening session with RPI3 - DAC+ Pro > I2S > low cost AK4495SEQ.
  
 At this time low cost AK4495SEQ with RPI3 + DAC+ Pro has BETTER performance than my "Monster Dac". It gained in every aspect!
 Even SACD's which sounded some kind of thin before are sounding great now! Every recording has details in them I never heard before, and, this is with LOW COST dac.
 Can't imagine how it will sound with my "Monster Dac". This weekend I will connect and review it!
  
 In the meantime Ian's stuff arrived 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  

  

  

  

  
 The Dual Clockboard II has two low cost TCXO's on it, they will be replaced with NDK's at first, and later on they will be replaced with OCXO's.
  
  
 Let the fun begin


----------



## prot

The plot thickens 
And 'jan's stuff' looks larger than expected. IIUC, the first board in your pics has the i2s chips and second one the clocks .. but what exactly does the third one?


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> The plot thickens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The third one is the isolator board which has to be connected between FIFO II board and Dual XO II clock board. Pcb's seems of very high quality


----------



## prot

Hm guess you'll need a taller case to fit the entire rpi+ian stack into your monster dac. 
And it may not fit into mine. 

Anyway, wish you luck with the experiment and can hardly wait for the next sq impressions.


----------



## hgpsemaj




----------



## hgpsemaj




----------



## hgpsemaj

Superceded


----------



## hgpsemaj




----------



## hgpsemaj




----------



## hgpsemaj

Friend of mine is an audio diyer, he build this Raspberry PI3 recently, and pairs it with a diy R2R DAC. The acoustic playback is astonishing, it outperforms my brother's Naim flagship system entirely. I shall upload more images later on.
  
 I upload all these images via my mobile phone, so it was a bit clumsy. .


----------



## prot

hgpsemaj said:


> Friend of mine is an audio diyer, he build this Raspberry PI3 recently, and pairs it with a diy R2R DAC. The acoustic playback is astonishing, it outperforms my brother's Naim flagship system entirely. I shall upload more images later on.
> 
> I upload all these images via my mobile phone, so it was a bit clumsy. .


 
  
 Cool stuff. Sounds like the future to me 
 Also, I'm trying to figure out if such an rpi stack would fit into my current Minimax Plus Dac.  Do you know approx how tall is that case? And/or how tall is that rpi stack assembly inside it?


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Hm guess you'll need a taller case to fit the entire rpi+ian stack into your monster dac.
> And it may not fit into mine.
> 
> Anyway, wish you luck with the experiment and can hardly wait for the next sq impressions.


 
  
 Yes, I will need a case which has a greater height, 9CM instead of 7CM, then I can put different R-Core in the enclosure, mount them on their side,
 this will give me room enough to place all the pcb's.
  
 I suppose rpi+DAC+ alone will be very very good, without fifo-isolator-dualdacboard, so that is maybe the way you should go.
 The pcb's are not that big, but they won't fit in your dac


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Friend of mine is an audio diyer, he build this Raspberry PI3 recently, and pairs it with a diy R2R DAC. The acoustic playback is astonishing, it outperforms my brother's Naim flagship system entirely. I shall upload more images later on.
> 
> I upload all these images via my mobile phone, so it was a bit clumsy. .


 
  
 That looks great! (except for the scews in the sidepanel, hahahaha).
  
 What kind of R2R dac is he using?
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> it outperforms my brother's Naim flagship system entirely.


 
  
 Does your brother have the Naim Audio NDS? It's about $13.000


----------



## hgpsemaj

abartels said:


> That looks great! (except for the scews in the sidepanel, hahahaha).
> 
> What kind of R2R dac is he using?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've been told it was R2R Sorkris.
 May be the guy who built this Raspberry PI3 did not aware Breeze Audio offers solid built audio enclosure.


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Yes, I will need a case which has a greater height, 9CM instead of 7CM, then I can put different R-Core in the enclosure, mount them on their side,
> this will give me room enough to place all the pcb's.
> 
> I suppose rpi+DAC+ alone will be very very good, without fifo-isolator-dualdacboard, so that is maybe the way you should go.
> The pcb's are not that big, but they won't fit in your dac



Yap, was afraid of that. Not that much space inside my minimax. Your current rpi+berrydac stack might fit though.


----------



## hgpsemaj

prot said:


> Cool stuff. Sounds like the future to me
> Also, I'm trying to figure out if such an rpi stack would fit into my current Minimax Plus Dac.  Do you know approx how tall is that case? And/or how tall is that rpi stack assembly inside it?


 
  
 The height of the enclosure is 3.5", the width and depth is 7" x 7".
  
 The Raspberry PI is not next to me at this moment, so I shall let you know the actual dimension of the RPI stack later.
  
  
  
  
 Regards,


----------



## hgpsemaj

abartels said:


> Does your brother have the Naim Audio NDS? It's about $13.000


 
  
 Looks like a mixture of modern and vintage gears:
  

  
 The one that I like most is the SME phono (i.e.100V/60Hz input.).


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I will need a case which has a greater height, 9CM instead of 7CM, then I can put different R-Core in the enclosure, mount them on their side,
> ...


 
  Yes it probably will


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Looks like a mixture of modern and vintage gears:
> 
> 
> 
> The one that I like most is the SME phono (i.e.100V/60Hz input.).


 
  
 Nice stuff


----------



## wakka992

Hi guys,
I'm looking for a USB to spdif interface, I'll be using it with Hudson CV2+. 
For now I was considering Breeze U8 with Taema transformer.
Is it wise to buy that or there's a new xmos chip around?
Thanks


----------



## hgpsemaj

abartels said:


> Nice stuff


 
  
  
 In acoustic wise, when Raspberry PI3 / R2R Soekris DAC out perform Naim NDS by a huge margin, I would say this Naim NDS 'it is nice from far, but far from nice'.
 I've been picking up HiFi as a hobby for many years, I got a feeling invest load of money on those audio gears would not guarantee a positive and proportionate return.
 I'm glad to see this Raspberry PI3 is equipped with spdif /AES digital output, you know........................there are lot of DAC in our market are only equipped with spdif/AES input. I think this is the right time for those users give their beloved USB Interface a break, and try something new.


----------



## hgpsemaj

wakka992 said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm looking for a USB to spdif interface, I'll be using it with Hudson CV2+.
> For now I was considering Breeze U8 with Taema transformer.
> Is it wise to buy that or there's a new xmos chip around?
> Thanks


 
  
 In costing wise, Breeze Audio DU-U8 RMB618 is a pretty good choice, but now there is a F1/Xmos PCB cost RMB999, mind you, need to add PS.


----------



## abartels

Ians stuff is expandable with spdif / AES output, just have to connect it =)


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Yes it probably will :bigsmile_face:



I might call you on that


----------



## wakka992

hgpsemaj said:


> In costing wise, Breeze Audio DU-U8 RMB618 is a pretty good choice, but now there is a F1/Xmos PCB cost RMB999, mind you, need to add PS.




A ready made one with the new Xmos? I'm not that much into DIY, just some basic soldering... maybe if it's not that complicated I'll try it


----------



## Caper

wakka992 said:


> A ready made one with the new Xmos? I'm not that much into DIY, just some basic soldering... maybe if it's not that complicated I'll try it


 
 It´s ready to use "as is"
 Complete board that only needs a case.
 Powered by USB.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111961717820?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## prot

hgpsemaj said:


> The height of the enclosure is 3.5", the width and depth is 7" x 7".
> 
> The Raspberry PI is not next to me at this moment, so I shall let you know the actual dimension of the RPI stack later.
> Regards,



Thx for the info. 
3.5" isnt that tall .. and that rpi stack looks like it can take some slimming .. might fit into my minimax after all.


----------



## prot

wakka992 said:


> Hi guys,
> I'm looking for a USB to spdif interface, I'll be using it with Hudson CV2+.
> For now I was considering Breeze U8 with Taema transformer.
> Is it wise to buy that or there's a new xmos chip around?
> Thanks



Guess you meant Burson cv2. 
Anyway, Breeze is still the cheapest and by far the best in terms of p/q. Also, it could very well be that a ddc wont make any audible diffs in your setup.. better start with something small/cheap and see if it really helps.


----------



## b0bb

hgpsemaj said:


> Friend of mine is an audio diyer, he build this Raspberry PI3 recently, and pairs it with a diy R2R DAC. The acoustic playback is astonishing, it outperforms my brother's Naim flagship system entirely. I shall upload more images later on.
> 
> I upload all these images via my mobile phone, so it was a bit clumsy. .


 

 The RPi can send the data directly to the Soekris via I2S. It has a built in FIFO reclocker and galvanic isolator, this takes care of the jitter issues on the RPi I2S outputs.
 This is how I use the RPi with the Soekris, I have got 4 of them,
  
 This considerably simplifies the setup and reduces RF noise overall.
  
 Your friend might see some benefit here, PM me if there is further interest.


----------



## rb2013

b0bb said:


> The RPi can send the data directly to the Soekris via I2S. It has a built in FIFO reclocker and galvanic isolator, this takes care of the jitter issues on the RPi I2S outputs.
> This is how I use the RPi with the Soekris, I have got 4 of them,
> 
> This considerably simplifies the setup and reduces RF noise overall.
> ...


 

 Interesting thread on the Raspberry Pi for high end audio:
  
 http://www.dimdim.gr/2014/12/the-rasberry-pi-audio-out-through-i2s/
  
The Raspberry Pi: Audio out through I2S Posted on December 8, 2014
 There are currently four ways to get audio out of the RPi:

Use the _audio out_ 3.5mm jack. It’s very easy to get it to work, but the sound quality is pretty bad, since it uses PWM to generate the sound. Due to that, its real resolution is in the neighbourhood of 11 bits. We have no use for that.
Use the HDMI port. It works OK, but is useless to us audiophiles.
Use a USB to I2S adapter, such as an Amanero or an XMOS-based device. Now we’re talking. They work quite well, and the quality of the I2S signal is dependent largely on the technology used (CPLD vs. XMOS, etc) as well as the quality of the on-board clocks. The problem is that they add another link to the audio chain, as well as increase the cost. Remember, the RPi is supposed to be a low cost solution.
Use the GPIO pins of the RPi to get direct I2S output. This sounds way more interesting, right? Let’s try that!
 Now we have to configure the software for I2S output. For my distribution of choice,Archphile, it’s a piece of cake: http://archphile.org/howto/i2s-dacs-and-the-raspberry-pi/
Audio playback works just fine!
Well, almost fine..
You see, in theory the RPi has a bit of a problem with its I2S output. Since the only clock onboard the RPi is a 19.2MHz crystal, it should have trouble generating proper clocks for its I2S output. For example, for 44.1KHz audio, the LR Clock must be running at precisely 44.1KHz. That is not possible, since the frequency is not a multiple of 19.2MHz. Thus, the frequency can be either 19.200.000 / 435 = *44.138KHz* or 19.200.000 / 436 = *44.0366KHz.* This is a limitation of the Broadcom BCM2835 in conjunction with the 19.2MHz crystal and there is nothing that can be done.
In order to confirm the theory, I decided to run a few tests. I hooked up my logic analyzer to my RPi, set it up for I2S output, and fed it some 44.1KHz music.



I took 1 sec worth of samples with my logic analyzer, configuring it for I2S signal. I got this:



The PCM Clock is already appearing a little dodgy. Let’s zoom in:






As you can see, the pulses do not have the same duration. They appear to alternate between two values. So it is obvious that the signal has jitter. A lot of jitter. Since we’re here, let’s have a look at the LR Clock signal as well:






The duration of the pulses appears to alternate between 11.33μS and 11.38μS, giving respectively 44.12KHz and 44.04KHz, values very close to the ones I calculated previously.
*So, the theory is sound and the RPi’s clock is not up to snuff by strict standards. What this means is that the RPi’s I2S output is not capable of “Hi End” audio transmission. It is essentially not bit perfect (edit: this is not correct, strictly speaking. It is in fact bit perfect, it is just not “proper”.).*
*In the real world, chances are that this problematic clocking will not be particularly audible under normal circumstances, say with a normal-specc’ed sound system. But an audiophile should definitely steer clear of the RPi’s I2S output, instead opting for a USB to I2S interface.*


----------



## hgpsemaj

b0bb said:


> The RPi can send the data directly to the Soekris via I2S. It has a built in FIFO reclocker and galvanic isolator, this takes care of the jitter issues on the RPi I2S outputs.
> This is how I use the RPi with the Soekris, I have got 4 of them,
> 
> This considerably simplifies the setup and reduces RF noise overall.
> ...


 
  
 Many thanks for your offer.


----------



## hgpsemaj

wakka992 said:


> A ready made one with the new Xmos? I'm not that much into DIY, just some basic soldering... maybe if it's not that complicated I'll try it


 
  
 Both Breeze Audio and Diyinhk claimed that they would release new ready made USB Interface in respect of latest Xmos XU208 & XU216 in the forth coming future.


----------



## hgpsemaj

rb2013 said:


> Interesting thread on the Raspberry Pi for high end audio:
> 
> http://www.dimdim.gr/2014/12/the-rasberry-pi-audio-out-through-i2s/


 
  
 This interesting thread came with those following replies:
  
 Danielon January 6, 2016 at 08:14 said:
 You are wrong. The so-called “Master clock” has nothing to do which chip is master or slave. It is usually just a clock that is uses to derive all other clocks. The master clock is not even part of I2S. There is no need to feed a master clock to the Raspberry Pi. The Raspberry Pi can be slave for BCK, LRCLK. These are the I2S clock signals.
 We’re using the Raspberry Pi as a clock slave since years (the HiFiBerry Digi that does this has been released almost 2 years ago). Check out the driver source and you will clearly see that the Raspberry Pi runs in slave mode.

 Dimdimon December 31, 2015 at 15:40 said:
 Are you sure about that? AFAIK there is no way to feed back to the RPi a master clock, so no way to run it as a slave. What I’m seeing on the DAC+ Pro is an I2S out with MCLK out, obviously generated by the DAC+ itself. This I2S output will have the same limitations as the RPi’s on-board I2S output, since I see no reference to reclocking being done on-board the DAC+. I may be wrong of course.

 Daniel on December 31, 2015 at 14:54 said:
 The Raspberry Pi can work a a clock slave completely eliminating the clock jitter issue. The easiest way to do this is using an HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro:http://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/articles/205711451-DAC-Pro-connect-external-I2S-DACs


----------



## b0bb

rb2013 said:


> Interesting thread on the Raspberry Pi for high end audio:
> 
> http://www.dimdim.gr/2014/12/the-rasberry-pi-audio-out-through-i2s/


 
  
 Straight out of the RPi, the clock is pretty nasty.
  
 The fix is not to use the clock as the primary timing source (BCLK), there are 2 methods in common use
  
 1)Reclock into a FIFO like Soekris and Ian Jin with the FIFO II reclocker are doing.
 2)Slave the RPi to an external BCLK generator like HiFi Berry is doing.
  
 Like USB to I2S, the problems with Direct I2S, are quite fixable, I have done both.


----------



## hgpsemaj

Extract from other forum, Soekris R2R DAC:


----------



## rb2013

b0bb said:


> Straight out of the RPi, the clock is pretty nasty.
> 
> The fix is not to use the clock as the primary timing source (BCLK), there are 2 methods in common use
> 
> ...


Thanks, that makes seense. Interesting new solution from an unexpected source.

I found that blog since DimDim just posted to my XU208 thread.

One question: can the rasp pi solution feed fom a PC or Mac, using say Foobar as the player ( sub in your fav PC/MAC player), or do you have to use these clunky html players?

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/raspberry-pi-b-digital-audio/

Great Rasp Pi source, I have been posting there for years, going back to HiFiduino's Musiland 3.0 days. And why I started the Seokris R2R thread.

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
Both Breeze Audio and Diyinhk claimed that they would release new ready made USB Interface in respect of latest Xmos XU208 & XU216 in the forth coming future.
[/quote]I think you 'forgot' to mention the currently available Singxer F-1 solution. The best USB DDC I have heard by miles ( and I've heard about 15, including introducing the Brreeze Audio DU-U8). This $157 currently available solution is in a class of it's own. Light years ahead of any other DDC I've heard.

You can follow the thread I've started here:


----------



## b0bb

rb2013 said:


> One question: can the rasp pi solution feed fom a PC or Mac, using say Foobar as the player ( sub in your fav PC/MAC player), or do you have to use these clunky html players?
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 RPi based players operate on a different paradigm, the player software runs inside the RPi, this is the equivalent of foobar.
 Foobar can be configured as a DLNA control point to talk to a RPi running the right software, in this case the main playback engine in foobar is not used.
  
 Most run a version of embedded realtime-linux that is dedicated to music playback only, and is configured for bitperfect playback (ALSA hardware passthru in most cases).
  
 The conventional player is reduced  to a user interface shell, so the player can be controlled from PC/MAC or a phone or iPad tablet, and yes you can get a web based player as well.
  
 The actual music repo varies with the software used, with Logitech Music Server it is a central server, with Volumio, the RPi mounts the remote disk directly


----------



## rb2013

b0bb said:


> RPi based players operate on a different paradigm, the player software runs inside the RPi, this is the equivalent of foobar.
> Foobar can be configured as a DLNA control point to talk to a RPi running the right software, in this case the main playback engine in foobar is not used.
> 
> Most run a version of embedded realtime-linux that is dedicated to music playback only, and is configured for bitperfect playback (ALSA hardware passthru in most cases).
> ...


Honestly that's fairly confusing to an experienced user like myself, for a newbie pretty challenging. But my hope is with technological advancement ( we're already on V.3 now), this gets inbedded into a more user friendly device or UI.

I'll keep watching.

Cheers!

PS Do the music files feed into the RPi USB, or the PC, in the senerio you describe. Seems like processing hi res files would tax the RPi resouces while also doing the audio processing. Just like a dedicated pc, with a lot less processing juice - AC and MFLOPS.


----------



## b0bb

rb2013 said:


> Honestly that's fairly confusing to an experienced user like myself, for a newbie pretty challenging. But my hope is with technological advancement ( we're already on V..3 now), this get inbedded into a more user friendly device or UI.
> 
> I'll keep watching.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 Think of the system as a PC with foobar dedicated to every DAC in the house. The PC listens for commands from a remote controller.
  
 You run the remote control software on your PC/MAC, phone or ipad. This takes care of the play lists,  search and browsing, it then sends the commands to the PC to start playback on the playlist.
  
 The real achievement is squeezing all of this into a $40 package, the more common use is to connect the RPi and the DAC via USB, I2S directly to the dac is the next step in the evolution. (The RPi becomes part of the DAC providing ethernet as another input option)


----------



## rb2013

b0bb said:


> Think of the system as a PC with foobar dedicated to every DAC in the house. The PC listens for commands from a remote controller.
> 
> You run the remote control software on your PC/MAC, phone or ipad. This takes care of the play lists,  search and browsing, it then sends the commands to the PC to start playback on the playlist.
> 
> The real achievement is squeezing all of this into a $40 package, the more common use is to connect the RPi and the DAC via USB, I2S directly to the dac is the next step in the evolution. (The RPi becomes part of the DAC providing ethernet as another input option)


See my P.S.

But OK, now you have a PC, storage devices, RPi, all interacting perfectly together. Pardon the skepticism. Been around digital stuff for far to long, way brittle...then you have more in the chain like i2s converters DAC of course.

Seems like a solution, in search of a problem...very Engineering...


----------



## b0bb

rb2013 said:


> See my P.S.
> 
> But OK, now you have a PC, storage devices, RPi, all interacting perfectly together. Pardon the skepticism. Been around digital stuff for far to long, way brittle...then you have more in the chain like i2s converters DAC of course.
> 
> Seems like a solution, in search of a problem...very Engineering...


 
  
 Did not see your PS initially.
  
  
 A standalone application closer to a conventional PC is Rune Audio which pulls in the audio files without the need for another PC other than the file server itself.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/795895/a-70-bit-perfect-audio-player
  
 I use LMS with the RPi and it is a little different but that is a software choice rather than a RPi specific, that probably made the RPi sound more complicated than it was.
  
 I2S makes sense only if one is able to connect the RPi directly to the DAC on the DAC motherboard, going thru I2S converters nullifies some of the benefits.
  
 The RPi2 and above will play 384kHz tracks without dropouts, RPi2 is a 900MHz 4core ARM with 1Gb of memory
 RPi3 is 1.2GHz
  
 Some numbers on my RPi2 Picoreplayer on the RPi:
 DSD128 as DoP (equivalent to 384kHz PCM): Approx 20% of 1CPU core, 0.20/4 = 5% busy overall (load average: 0.20)
 Track is one of the Native DSD tracks justlisten_JL001_JL001+stereo_05_Mahler1_finale_session_BFO_DSD128_2ch128.dff
  
 PCM 352kHz : load average: Approx 11% of 1CPU core,  0.11/4 = 2.75% busy overall (load average: 0.11)
 Track is from 2L Krambupolka 2L-068 stereo-DXD 01 15


----------



## hgpsemaj

Hello B0bb,
  
 What do you think to pair Raspberry PI3 with this? Please advise
  
[the ZERO] DAC TDA1540 R2R Isolated nonoversampling NOS Audio with FIFO reclock 
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/100--the-zero-dac-tda1540-r2r-isolated-nonoversampling-nos-audio-with-fifo-reclock.html


----------



## b0bb

hgpsemaj said:


> Hello B0bb,
> 
> What do you think to pair Raspberry PI3 with this? Please advise
> 
> ...


 

 Physically it should work as DIYinHK is claiming they fixed data incompatability. The old DACs require a silghtly different formatting for the input words.
  
 Unlike modern DACs, the digital filter/DSP is a separate piece like the SAA7220. This is missing on this board, somewhere in the chain the required brickwall filter for CD Redbook audio has to be added, at minimum the DSP like the SAA7220 should be added to do the brickwall filter but with oversampling turned off if you are interested in NOS.
  
 If you are using this with amps and speakers, the amp should have a very steep low pass filter above 20kHz to avoid damaging the tweeters in the speakers if this used without the DSP.


----------



## hgpsemaj

SONORE audiobyte USB US$693.72 each

  
 http://www.yoycart.com/Product/522226460134/


----------



## hgpsemaj

*Soekris R2R DAC dam1021 Version 3.0*
  
 The latest version on the left,

  

  
 http://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html


----------



## ginetto61

> I think you 'forgot' to mention the currently available *Singxer F-1 solution*. The best USB DDC I have heard by miles ...


 
  
 Hi ! sorry to jump in.   It looks very well built indeed.   Are you aware of a web site of the brand ?
  
*How do you power it ?*   i mean ... directly from the pc using the usb bus power or do you use a special usb power supply ?
  


> You can follow the thread I've started here:


 
 Link is missing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks a lot !
 regards,  gino


----------



## hgpsemaj

Is it the one?
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.OQ4eFR#detail


----------



## ginetto61

Hi ! i think it is this one
  
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/f-1-xmos-usb-digital-interface-board-xu208-chip-high-end-u8-upgraded-version.html


----------



## rb2013

b0bb said:


> Did not see your PS initially.
> 
> 
> A standalone application closer to a conventional PC is Rune Audio which pulls in the audio files without the need for another PC other than the file server itself.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the great info - Well it appears these latest versions have the processing power.  So much going on now with computer audio - from renders, streamers, USB, no the RPi stuff - hard to stay near the curve - let alone ahead of it.
  
 I guess this is very flexible in terms of set-up - I read this article in 'What Hi-Fi' and had a different impression - as always you are at the cutting edge!


----------



## rb2013

ginetto61 said:


> Hi ! sorry to jump in.   It looks very well built indeed.   Are you aware of a web site of the brand ?
> 
> *How do you power it ?*   i mean ... directly from the pc using the usb bus power or do you use a special usb power supply ?
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry here is the thread link (using my darn tablet last night - it's very hard to cut and paste to a Headfi post):
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 The Singxer F-1 is USB powered (see my thread for details on my set-up), just to say using a W4S Recovery with LPS external power, and a bunch of other enhancements.
  
 It is by far the best sound I have ever heard in a music system I've owned - rivaling my old $30K analog set-up.  Some things it's way better on, and a few that great analog is slightly better at.  But overall I'd say just killer good.  The F-1 (now fully burnt in) is light years ahead of all other DDC's I've owned (including the PUC2 Lite, Hydra Z, modded Breeze Du-U8, DXIO Pro3a, Gustard U12, etc...).
  
 The Singxer X-1 is very, very good as well.  The SU-1 will be launched in May:
 Here is the Taobao website:
 https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.kq275g#detail


----------



## ginetto61

rb2013 said:


> Sorry here is the thread link (using my darn tablet last night - it's very hard to cut and paste to a Headfi post):
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
> 
> The Singxer F-1 is USB powered (see my thread for details on my set-up), just to say using a W4S Recovery with LPS external power, and a bunch of other enhancements.
> ...


 
  
 Hi and thanks again !  no more question.  I understand it is really something special.
 also IMHO a good analog rig is the reference.  With good analog it is easier to get music and not only sounds.
 And also the price is very right. 
 I will stop asking and start reading ... sorry again.
 Kind regards,  gino


----------



## prot

ginetto61 said:


> Hi ! i think it is this one
> 
> http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/f-1-xmos-usb-digital-interface-board-xu208-chip-high-end-u8-upgraded-version.html


 
  
 Here's the short resume on the so called 'new gen' ddcs.
 All are based on a (somewhat) newer and more powerful xmos chip... all sold (apparently) by these guys http://singxer.com/pr.jsp ... all using the somewhat shady kind of drivers that you have to dload from some chinese site.

 the *F1 *you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
  
 the *SU1 *linked above is the fullbox device. Presumably with the same (or similar) f1 board inside the nice case ... and all the usual extras: trafo power, aes/bnc/i2s outputs, clock output, etc.. About $300
  
 there are a few lesser devices (*X1 *& *Q1 *iirc) which are cheaper & simpler bare boards ... ~$100 or less.  May be a good start but they don't look as good as f1 ... e.g. little or no isolation between the 'dirty' usb input side (the xmos side) and the 'clean' output side (the side with clocks) ... no extra fpga on the 'clean' side .. cheaper clocks ... etc...
  
 Which one is best for you?
 Unfortunately (and in spite of the amazing amount of SPAMalot/FUDalot/HYPEalot posts), nobody can really say that.  The difference made by any DDC depends on 3 main factors: the quality of your power, of your digital source and of your Dac. And the SQ diffs with a ddc could be anywhere between non-audible and my-wife-heard-it-too .
 In my setup (filtered power + laptop + minimaxplus) the old-gen ddcs were between non-audible & barely-audible ... only the puc2 is slightly above that range.


----------



## ginetto61

prot said:


> Here's the short resume on the so called 'new gen' ddcs.
> All are based on a (somewhat) newer and more powerful xmos chip... all sold (apparently) by these guys http://singxer.com/pr.jsp ... all using the somewhat shady kind of drivers that you have to dload from some chinese site.
> the *F1 *you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
> *the SU1 linked above is the fullbox device. Presumably with the same (or similar) f1 board inside the nice case .*.. and all the usual extras: trafo power, aes/bnc/i2s outputs, clock output, etc.. About $300
> ...


 
  
 As i said i am interested to wait and see the SU1 and its construction.  DIY is not an option for me.  I have no skills. 
 Clearly source and dac are still important but this one is a very fundamental link in the chain ... i am quite sure of this.
 As i dac now i have an Apogee Rosetta 200 at hand.  Pc many ... both Win 7 and one Mac Mini.
 I think that the F1 should have drivers at least for one of the two OS.
 Very beautiful board indeed ... neat. It speaks quality
  

  
 Thanks a lot again,  gino


----------



## rb2013

ginetto61 said:


> Hi and thanks again !  no more question.  I understand it is really something special.
> also IMHO a good analog rig is the reference.  With good analog it is easier to get music and not only sounds.
> And also the price is very right.
> I will stop asking and start reading ... sorry again.
> Kind regards,  gino


 

 You are correct - that really great analog projects a more realistic image, has greater dynamics - both micro and macro, and generally a more natural richer tone.  But that comes at cost - background noise (LP surface noise), now the very finest cartridges like the DynaVector XV-1S and Benz Ebony LP (both of which I had) use a stylus shape to min this.  But it's still there.  Certainly not the ink black background of a well fed F-1.  What shocks me is how close the F-1 comes to bringing those other great attributes of sota analog from a digital source.  Best of both worlds - for a small fraction of the cost.  And of course long playlists!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

prot said:


> Here's the short resume on the so called 'new gen' ddcs.
> All are based on a (somewhat) newer and more powerful xmos chip... all sold (apparently) by these guys http://singxer.com/pr.jsp ... all using the somewhat shady kind of drivers that you have to dload from some chinese site.
> 
> the *F1 *you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
> ...


 
 Well yes it needs drivers- so?  And it is plug and play for spdif - a i2s would require a cable attached.  I bought a really nice aluminum split case for $9 on Ebay.
  
 And yes for best performance the F-1 does require clean well regulated power - but so?  You can get a TeraDak X1/X2 linear power supply for like $80 and it comes with a USB separate power feed cable.  Pretty amazing performance for around $250 total.  Plug and play - easy to load XMOS drivers and then great music!
  
 PS and the XU208 X-1 is $69 includes ALL NDK SD ultra low noise clocks to boot!  I have one playing right now - after the F-1 the best DDC I have heard yet.  So with a TeraDak X1 - around $150 bucks!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-1-XMOS-USB-Digital-Interface-Module/111960651117?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36469%26meid%3D4a313c26b6014b0b9356dd88f3009e8e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111961717820


----------



## wakka992

prot said:


> the *F1 *you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.


 
  
 I'm considering the F1 board as I only need S/pdif output. Do you know of any case that will adapt to this board? What about clean external power?
 Thanks for your help, I'm new to DDC.


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> I'm considering the F1 board as I only need S/pdif output. Do you know of any case that will adapt to this board? What about clean external power?
> Thanks for your help, I'm new to DDC.


 

 Sure - not to hijack this thread (I'm really interested in the RPi stuff - thanks Alex for adding that).  But see my XU208 thread for the details - a case is around $9.  I have few on their way to me. - So will report the easiest mounting one.  Right now just using a left over case from a past project (again see my thread).
  
 The SQ is simply stunning!


----------



## prot

Looks like many are a bit confused about those RPI devices that are built & discussed in this thread.
Basically, the idea is to put a RaspberryPi board into your Dac .. directly linked to the Dac chip via i2s. 
What you get is the equivalent of devices like Auralic Altair, Marantz NA-11S1 and many other mega $$$ 'audiophile wonders'.

*How-to*:

 You connect a RPi board to your Dac chip via I2S (the hard part, many informative posts above).
 You install an 'audiophile OS' like Volumio, RuneAudio, Daphile, Archphile, piCorePlayer, Voyage ... or anything from this huge list.  And no worries, you usually get an image file that you simply put on an SD and are good to go.  Some even sell fully configured SDs for like $30...stick it into the RPi and you're good to go.   Everything is already audio-optimized for you .. with nice webbrowser interfaces to control all settings, play music, etc.
 Most distros use the MPD player which can be remote-controlled from pretty much any device on your couch: ipod/iphone, ipad, android phones/tablets, windows phones/tablets/pc-s, etc.  Playlists, album art, volume control - all at your fingers, on the couch  . Most of the clients are mature already and work just as well as the ones coming with any similar wow-audiophile devices (according to many, Auralic actually uses slightly changed mpd/mpad software). As an mpd alternate, picoreplayer is a nice squeezbox compatible player with similar features.. and many other players if you wanna experiment.
 The mpd/pico players will play music the music from a HDD connected to the RPi or from any music server, dlna device, windows pc, tablet/phone connected via network cable or wifi/bluetooth.  Some distros also allow you to stream music from Tidal/Spotify/etc, stream radio, podcasts or whatever other music sources.
With some extra effort, you can also do multi-room setups, room-correction & other DSP, use HQPlayer & DSD conversion,  etc.  Basically anything that you ever read about or wanted from a digital-audio setup!  As a bonus, you can even use that RPi as a video player .. e.g. with xbmc/kodi and a remote/mouse like Mele.

(potential) *Issues*:

  you need some diy skills. Or just ask a friend.

*Advantages*:

 *huge* clutter improvemets: no PC, no DDC, no expensive power/usb cables, no LPSes. Just a single music-box to rule them all 
 if you care about clean power, use a $25 LiPo bettery for the RPi ... cleaner power than most $$$ LPSes.  Or a $99 ifi purifier which (at least specswise) is better than any LPS.
 no PC also means no Windows, no updates, no viruses, etc.
 The RPi starts in just a few seconds .. even faster than some DACs .. and consumes almost nothing (just a few watts for standby or audiplay).
 no USB = no worries about the bytes&noises .. and no crazy $2000 USB chains like ppang card + jitterbug + wyrd + intona + regen + god knows how many cables & LPSes :eek: .
 you can keep the Dac you already have and like.
 no drivers to hunt, install, configure, etc.  All you need comes with the OS.
 the BOM is between $50 - $300, depending how much power/signal filtering you want between the RPi board and the Dac.  For that money you get a device as good and confy as those $2000+  Auralics.  And if your diy skills are as good as b0bb's or abartels' you'll prolly get even better SQ.

For help & details you can always ask the diy experts around here .. people who already built & tested such setups and are enthusiastically recomending them for amazing SQ: @b0bb
, @hgpsemaj
, @abartels
.
Just forget your USB worries, headaches, $1000 cables and devices without end and *WELCOME to the future world of easy and fun audio!*  
Also forget your always-empty wallet cause this RPi stuff is more than decently priced and totally affordable for anyone!

P.S.
And you'll also be much better if you ignore various mr. FUDalots and dubious salesmen who neither understand nor ever saw such rpi+i2s+dac setups.


----------



## Caper

rb2013 said:


> So will report the easiest mounting one.  Right now just using a left over case from a past project (again see my thread).
> 
> The SQ is simply stunning!


 
  
 Please do so, I need a case also


----------



## hgpsemaj

This gadget is acting as a console accommodating Soekris R2R PCB and Amanero Combo 384,


----------



## seeteeyou

FYI - here's a link to order that gadget for only 85 RMB
  
 https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=522052599041
  
 Some local users of that gadget here in HK, pretty cool stuff IMHO
  
 https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1723137457931602
  
 http://www.review33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=70150718083858&item=&page=14


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> This gadget is acting as a console accommodating Soekris R2R PCB and Amanero Combo 384,


 
  
 +1
  
 Very nice find!!!


----------



## hgpsemaj

I wish I could find one like this for accommodating  Raspberry PI3 and Soekris R2R PCB.


----------



## abartels

seeteeyou said:


> FYI - here's a link to order that gadget for only 85 RMB
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=522052599041
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 Thanks for the VERY interesting links!!!


----------



## audioelements

audioelements said:


> I am re-posting my question here per Alex's suggestion.
> 
> I just got a Melodious MX-U8 usb/spdif converter from eBay. It was shipped with DHL express, I got it in 3 days in the US.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


user471 said:


> I don't think that 'compatible with linux' means quite what we all think
> 
> What it actually seems to mean is more like 'compatible with certain builds of certain Linux kernels with certain extensions and then only on certain DACs or USB/S/PDIF converters with certain USB input boards'
> 
> ...


 
  
 A quick follow up. Now I believe the Melodious MX-U8 (at least the latest version 1.7) units are just not compatible with regular build Linux - I tried two units. I bought another XMOS based DDC (the Singxer F-1 XMOS USB/SPDIF board), it works with my linux smoothly. After talking to people, it seems that this is a XMOS firmware issue, which means it is not the XMOS chips in general, but some specific batches of XMOS. By the way the F-1 XMOS USB board is sounding very good - I mean, VERY good! (http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/480)


----------



## prot

A simple question: "what is the best digital interface?". 
And a simple (enough) and well documented answer .. from an expert Dac builder. 
http://www.raleighaudio.com/Digital%20interface.pdf
Hint: it is so not Usb 

P.S.
their Dac looks very good too
http://www.kandkaudio.com/digital-audio/


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> A simple question: "what is the best digital interface?".
> And a simple (enough) and well documented answer .. from an expert Dac builder.
> http://www.raleighaudio.com/Digital%20interface.pdf
> Hint: it is so not Usb
> ...


 
 +1
  
 Very nice links, thanks for providing us with them!


----------



## abartels

abartels said:


> > *Comparison "Monster Dac" with USB - isolated XMOS - I2S interface VS Low Cost AK4495SEQ Dac with RPI3 - DAC+Pro - I2S interface:*
> >
> > Setup:
> >
> ...


 
  
*Update per 24-04-2016:*
  
 Last ten days I tried to get Ian's FIFO II + Isolator + DUALXO II clockboard to work with RPI2/3 and low cost AK4495SEQ.
 Until now I was not successful, strange things happening, FIFO II not locking all the time, and if it locks I only get lots of hiss.
 Ian is helping me with it, but until now it's not working.
  
  
 Today I got RPI3 + DAC+ Pro + "Monster DAC" working!!
  
 Result is just astonishing, width and depth (and hight!) of soundstage is miraculous, again all recordings have to be reviewed over new .
 Even a recording like Level42's first album, which never sounded good, is sounding great! Tonality, especial female voices, giving me gooseflesh.
  
 There isn't an aspect which didn't improve.
  
 There is one "minor" problem, my neighbors......... LF is that kind of tight and powerfull, I suppose they can't cook the potatoes on their stoof anymore hahahaha
  
 Hope I can get Ian's stuff working, if not, I will start replacing the Xpresso XO's on the DAC+Pro with NDK or Crystek. Will mount the XO's in sockets
 so they can be replaced with better ones very easily.
  
 My latest NDK XO's, soldered on adapter board with Vishay MKP 1837 on top, as close as possible to VCC-GND:
  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 Cheers


----------



## prot

abartels
this looks like a similar project using BBB and a different clocking board .. maybe it helps http://bbb.ieero.com
IIUC, it is simpler/easier than your current ianfifo trial. The BBB can use an external clock directly so there's no need for reclocking. I can only see one extra board (with the clocks) and it seems to be fully customizable.


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> @abartels
> this looks like a similar project using BBB and a different clocking board .. maybe it helps http://bbb.ieero.com
> IIUC, it is simpler/easier than your current ianfifo trial. The BBB can use an external clock directly so there's no need for reclocking. I can only see one extra board (with the clocks) and it seems to be fully customizable.


 
  
 I know, it's twisted pair stuff, B0bb pointed me to those too, they are "very nice", but ian's stuff is better, if it works 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ian is helping me, will send them back and he will test them!


----------



## abartels

abartels said:


> prot said:
> 
> 
> > @abartels
> ...


 
 Btw, "Monster DAC" is sounding great, miraculous, very airy, open, no details to wish for anymore, low frequencies much more tighter and present, I even bought some better woofers because now
 it's obvious those old WSP-26S woofers are not as tight sounding as the should, they go VERY deep, FS (free air) is 19Hz, for a ten incher, thats very low, but the rubber surrounding is not stiff enough I suppose.
 The new ones, GF-250 have glas fiber conus and better chassis overall. Will test them coming week.
  
 RPI+DAC+Pro I2S is great! Nothing to wish for anymore! Very analog sounding, but in better quality overall.I'm sitting IN the soundstage, not looking at it anymore, it surrounds me.
 Best thing ever happened to me.
  
 Can't wait to try a good FIFO, to optimize I2S signal. I'm very confident Ian will solve the problem with this set. He's designing DSD FIFO right now, that would be the next step, and,
 maybe DSD withouy DAC. Have the flip flop pcb's at home now,,,,,,,,,


----------



## abartels

New gadget arrived at the XMOS u208 thread, little tiny device to extend the 5Ft USB chain, $50 only, spectacular!


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> New gadget arrived at the XMOS u208 thread, little tiny device to extend the 5Ft USB chain, $50 only, spectacular!





That is exactly what I wanted, another device in my USB chain  ... actually 5 IIUC:  2usb-eth converters + 2 powersuplies + 1 network isolator. Wonderful.

Here's something if you miss your dual-pc setup. http://minimserver.com/ .. a dlna/upnp server.  The minimstreamer addon can transcode to WAV/LPCM and then the RPi will be just a very simple player who's only job is to pass the music bits further via i2s ... and quite similar to an oldskool jplay audioPc.


----------



## rb2013

abartels said:


> New gadget arrived at the XMOS u208 thread, little tiny device to extend the 5Ft USB chain, $50 only, spectacular!


 

 Well it's based on a 'discovery' by Paul McGowen at PS Audio.
  
 In fact, he says it's a Regen killer and add true galvanic isolation to USB.  By the 1GB Ethernet USB extender is a bit more $80 and I got lucky to find the medical grade ethernet galvanic isolator for $50 used on Ebay - they sell for $160 new.  But another benefit would be the ability to pull high quality USB off any CAT5 or 6 wiring in your home or office - and possibly wifi.
  
 Could eliminate the need for the Regen and the Intona - and the PPA card - a huge win!
  
WATCH STARTING AT Min 4!!  At Min 5 "he says - knocked the Regen's socks off!"  That is an amazing statement!  At min 6 he explains why he thinks this works so well for USB audio.   At min 7 he says it doesn't matter what USB cable you use to feed it!  They all sound the same - this from a guy who sells High End USB cables!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUl9fJNyfbo 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/675#post_12535285


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > New gadget arrived at the XMOS u208 thread, little tiny device to extend the 5Ft USB chain, $50 only, spectacular!
> ...


 
  
 Could be very nice, also because it's installeable on a variety of NAS devices, but, first things first, have to listen my whole music collection (could take a few years, hahaha) to explore all the details I've missed all those years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Btw, the USB to CAT5/7 to USB thing is far from new, I used it years ago at customers site, and yes, of course it could improve SQ because of galvanic isolation and rebuilding of wacky usb signal. Thats why I abandoned it in the first place.....


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Could be very nice, also because it's installeable on a variety of NAS devices, but, first things first, have to listen my whole music collection (could take a few years, hahaha) to explore all the details I've missed all those years
> 
> Btw, the USB to CAT5/7 to USB thing is far from new, I used it years ago at customers site, and yes, of course it could improve SQ because of galvanic isolation and rebuilding of wacky usb signal. Thats why I abandoned it in the first place.....




If I ever find the time to test that puppylinux+mpd combo, I'll have a look at minimserver too. Too many posibilities, too little time. 

P.S. As usual, the only new thing is the hype


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Could be very nice, also because it's installeable on a variety of NAS devices, but, first things first, have to listen my whole music collection (could take a few years, hahaha) to explore all the details I've missed all those years
> ...


 
  
 Could be very nice option too, it's easy to try, and for free, except all the apps for my iPad and Android phone I have to buy constantly.......
  
 Btw, rar music files are rebuilding as we speak, will upload a.s.a.p.


----------



## abartels

Offtopic:
  
 Last week I took a Tidal HiFi abbo, it's not cheap but VERY good! Lossless music, streaming directly from internet to RPI to DAC.
 Still exploring


----------



## abartels

Anyone know if there are other suppliers for NDK NZ2520SD 22.xxxx 24.xxxxx 45.xxxx 49.xxxx range, OTHER then Diyinhk and JLsounds?
  
 Any help would be appreciated!
  
 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

For your information:


----------



## abartels

Are those still available? Think it's older project?


----------



## prot

Even better than the real thing 
https://www.minidsp.com/products/network-audio/avb-dg
Direct ethernet-to-i2s .. no need for rpi.

And the next big thing: we wont even need a Dac anymore


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Even better than the real thing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's far more complex,,,,
  
The AVB-DG is an affordable Ethernet to I2S module featuring the latest Audio Video Bridging (AVB) standards. Based on XMOS technology, the AVB-DG can stream up to 8 inputs by 8 outputs audio channels over Ethernet networks. Combine it with our existing products and build your own Ethernet audio streaming network. The modular configuration and co-processor architecture gives designers the flexibility required to keep up with ever changing requirements. To foster creativity, DSP4YOU is opening all avenues for 3rd party product development. Schematics, template pre-compiled binaries and full source code are available for download from your user downloads upon purchase & XMOS GitHub.

*IMPORTANT NOTE*: This product requires an AVB switch (AVB-SW or other) to be able to operate. A standard network switch will not allow streaming. For a complete solution (AVB-DG + AVB switch), please have a look at our AVB-DGK offering.

Brief specifications 
*Processor*XMOS XS1-L16*Input/output resolution*24 bits*Channel count*8 in, 8 out via I2S*Internal operating sample rate*48 kHz (default configuration - can be customized)*Output sample rate*48 kHz (default configuratio - can be customized)


----------



## prot

Wouldnt post if it was easy & simple 
IIUC, you dont need that special switch if you just connect one converter to a server directly via network cable. And the server will see it as audio device. 
Wont bet the house on that though ..


----------



## hgpsemaj

For your information:
  

  

  
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/44754416476.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.zf9QME#detail


----------



## prot

A very nice reference sheet for RPi
https://www.modmypi.com/blog/raspberry-pi-gpio-cheat-sheet


----------



## abartels

This is the sheet you need:


----------



## abartels

Btw, I replaced the ExpressO TCXO's at DAC+Pro, seems they are little bit better sounding, but to be sure I will order a new DAC+Pro to compare.
  
 Replacing the ExpressO's was a hell of a job, and, they did put the wrong silkscreen on the board!!!
  
 The XO marked 44 is actually the 48 KHz range TCXO and the XO marked 48 is actually the 44.1KHz range TCXO.
  
 This faulty silkscreen caused me lots of trouble because it didn't work in the first place, and the soldering job was VERY difficult.
 I had to desolder them again, and solderering them again in which the very flimsy copper pads came off from the pcb....
  
 Finally I got it working, but pcb looks like a battlefield.....
  
  
 If anyone would want to try this, please, DON'T do it, and IF you do it, you would need some sort of adapter board which fits in the space of original
 ExpressO's and has the possibility to solder it on the SMT pads.


----------



## prot

@bartels
Your diagram is surely nicer


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> @bartels
> Your diagram is surely nicer


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## abartels

Hi guys,
  
 Here's the FIRST review of the Singxer SU-1.
 The article is in English, first part is in Japanese.
  
 http://www.jplay.info/#!blank-2/fbb2v
  
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Here's the FIRST review of the Singxer SU-1.
> The article is in English, first part is in Japanese.
> ...



A very nice review .. especially considering that it comes from the jplay unicorn caves


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys,
> ...


 
 Well said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I still prefer low computing option


----------



## prot

The simplest rpi+dac solution using a berry digi+ board
https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/206528455-RPi-network-to-I2S-transport-using-DIGI-as-I2S-bus-controller

And looks like the rpi+dac design is getting a lot of attention lately. Here's a fully built device 
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-dac/audiophonics-dap-dac-sabre-es9018-raspberry-pi-2-p-10390.html


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> The simplest rpi+dac solution using a berry digi+ board
> https://support.hifiberry.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/206528455-RPi-network-to-I2S-transport-using-DIGI-as-I2S-bus-controller
> 
> And looks like the rpi+dac design is getting a lot of attention lately. Here's a fully built device
> http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-dac/audiophonics-dap-dac-sabre-es9018-raspberry-pi-2-p-10390.html


 
  
 The Digi+ board doesn't have I2S output, only Coax/Toslink SPDIF. The guy uses I2S directly from RPI which is very jittery.
  
 AudioPhonics has several RPI dac's / projects. They are nice, but not more than that. They use I2S output from RPI directly,
 so, again, very jittery. ESS dac's have own MCLK so no need for external master clock, that's why they can use RPI's I2S output (which doesn't have mclk).
 ESS says their chips are not jitter sensitive, but they are,,, so direct I2S output from RPI into ESS will not sound at its best.
  
  
 Btw, I bought a new DAC+ Pro since the first one, modified with NDK's finally did not sound that good as expected. The NDK's were not as good as the ExpressO TCXO's!
 Strange since ExpressO tcxo's have lot's of phase noise, this again points to the fact that low phase noise at it's own is not a recipe for HQ sound.
 Happy with the RPI/DAC+Pro combo, very happy


----------



## prot

Opops, didnt check that setup very closely. But there is a digi+ board there .. IIUC it provides clocking. But anyway, it's even simpler without extra boards.

And interesting about those clocks, maybe you can also try the crysteks. Or bobb's OCXO. Thinkin about that one for my ess dac .. but dont have the required soldering skills


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Opops, didnt check that setup very closely. But anyway, it's even simpler so.
> 
> And interesting about those clocks, maybe you can also try the crysteks. Or bobb's OCXO .. thinkin about that one for my ess dac .. but dont have the required soldering skills


 
 would love to try OCXO's, but first would have to investigate how to mount a DIP14 instead of a surface mount TCXO, those are much smaller, and need some sort of smt>DIP14 adapter to solder on the pcb.
 I wrecked one DAC+Pro allready...


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> would love to try OCXO's, but first would have to investigate how to mount a DIP14 instead of a surface mount TCXO, those are much smaller, and need some sort of smt>DIP14 adapter to solder on the pcb.
> I wrecked one DAC+Pro allready...



That stuff is indeed awfully small. But at those prices you can afford to wreck a few for fun


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > would love to try OCXO's, but first would have to investigate how to mount a DIP14 instead of a surface mount TCXO, those are much smaller, and need some sort of smt>DIP14 adapter to solder on the pcb.
> ...


 
 hmm, not exactly my hobby to throw €45 away for fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 RPI/DAC+Pro in monster dac sounds great. The new one has burned-in now, did put some extra buffer caps on it, sounds heavenly open, airy, background is blacker than black, very natural/analog sounding with massive body an huge soundstage.
  
 Would love to compare with USB device like F1 from U208 forum, maybe someone can send me one for comparison?


----------



## prot

http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/GROVE_System. Some of those 'groves' may be useful in a Dac project. 

Not sure why would you want to waste time with any other ddc .. especially a 'hypealot' one like the F1. But if you really want it check the pm deal propo.


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Opops, didnt check that setup very closely. But there is a digi+ board there .. IIUC it provides clocking. But anyway, it's even simpler without extra boards.
> 
> And interesting about those clocks, maybe you can also try the crysteks. Or bobb's OCXO. Thinkin about that one for my ess dac .. but dont have the required soldering skills


 
  
 Soldering skills are a must, it's also not very easy to remove the onboard TCXO, it's probably smt mounted?
  
 Further, most OCXO's need 5V instead of 3.3V, and in addition, they need much more power, so a diyinhk 0.8uV ultra low noise psu wouldn't be sufficient (not sure though)


----------



## rootscript

abartels said:


> The Digi+ board doesn't have I2S output, only Coax/Toslink SPDIF. The guy uses I2S directly from RPI which is very jittery.
> 
> AudioPhonics has several RPI dac's / projects. They are nice, but not more than that. They use I2S output from RPI directly,
> so, again, very jittery. ESS dac's have own MCLK so no need for external master clock, that's why they can use RPI's I2S output (which doesn't have mclk).
> ...


 
 A friend of mine has the Audiophonics Rasberry Pi 2 with Sabre V3 and says that it sounds GREAT.  Here is a link to the finished one that he bought: http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/appareils-hifi-dac/audiophonics-raspdac-network-player-raspberry-pi-20-dac-sabre-v3-p-10369.html
  

  

  

  
 Is there anything on the Rasberry Pi that could be replaced to improve the design?
 OR
 Could the Rasberry Pi 2 be raplaced with another microcontroller that does I2S?
  
 This Rasberry Pi 'clone' looks interesting, with an Intel chip (Maybe it could run Roon Labs server)?
http://www.up-board.org/


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/GROVE_System. Some of those 'groves' may be useful in a Dac project.
> 
> Not sure why would you want to waste time with any other ddc .. especially a 'hypealot' one like the F1. But if you really want it check the pm deal propo.


 
  
 Grove system looks nice but can't find a lot components which really could be interesting for building ddc/dac.
  
  
 To be honest, I am not very eager to build an F1-based DDC, just would want to compare it with RPI3/DAC+Pro, especially because of the hype. I suppose it does sound real good.
 That's why I would want to know how it would compare to RPI3/DAC+Pro
  
 Not sure if I want to start this project at all, would love to, but it takes lots of time and lots of money. The costs of this project could (*probably WOULD*) exceed the cost of SU-1, and if I don't want to keep it,
 and others don't want it too, then it's a waste of my hard earned money, and of my precious free time.....
  
 Further, there was a specific statement at XMOS XU208 thread which caused me hesitating starting F1 project at all. Sorry @rb2013 , Bob, I don't want to be rude, picky or stab you in the back, but I really have to share this:
  
  
*"The biggest change - the 5ft tall Maggies - absolutely disappear sound wise" ( posted yesterday http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/1335#post_12567829 )*
  
  
 I really am wondering if I should dive into this project, just because of the simple fact that:
*"My speakers absolutely disappeared - sound wise" with my heavily modded Melodious MX-U8 ALREADY*, connected with I2S to my *low cost AK4495SEQ dac!!!!! *
  
 That is what is keeping me from trying F1 and all those USB gimmicks, just because of that fact. That combo sounded breathtaking already.
  
  
 I think I don't have to explain what happened when upgrading to my MonsterDac, and further, the very big upgrade to RPI3/DAC+Pro, how it sounds. We have to invent new words and phrases for that.
  
 But, still would want to know how F1 sounds................


----------



## abartels

rootscript said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > The Digi+ board doesn't have I2S output, only Coax/Toslink SPDIF. The guy uses I2S directly from RPI which is very jittery.
> ...


 
  
 Hi rootscript,
  
 There are many users who even prefer the Pi ZERO, soundwise. It's the lowest performer from the range.
 I am very happy with the RPI3/DAC+Pro combo, would not want to use I2S fromt RPI-hardware directly.
  
 The up-board, very nice! Wasn't aware if it's existence! Funny is it has same GPIO pin layout as RPI2/3 hahahahaha
  
 I wouldn't use it for audio.
  
 Btw, Sabre DAC isn't over sensitive for jitter, but, feeding it with as less as possible jitter will take it to another level (or more levels...).
 This means, using it with DAC+Pro probably could give MUCH better SQ, not sure though if software would trigger the two XpressO clocks on DAC+Pro.
 This depends on drivers loaded in package.


----------



## abartels

Just a few words:
  
  
  
 Being an Audiophile, it's not that easy explaining to someone who's isn't into this, and, even more complex and difficult is how to explain to somebody else how your system is performing. What kind of benchmarks do we use, we just got used to the SQ we have at hand, every improvement seems like a big one, even if they all are small upgrades. Sometimes we accomplished big improvements, but, as Head-Fi member @bimmer100 once said, it's difficult to put all those improvements in a scale, how do they compare to each other, and I must admit, sometimes it looks like everything is widely exaggerated. This doesn't mean we are conscious of those exaggerations, this just happens. The statement above, about speakers disappearing, if that happens, you definitely are on the right track, but this doesn't mean you're there. As @rb2013 said before, he had a very good analog rig, he was used to listen to it for many years, just as I did.
 Since CA got at a much higher level it indeed was possible to combine best of both worlds, Digital and Analog. In my case I surpassed analog SQ about a year ago, at least, that is what I think, (and all my friends who come over and listen to my set a few times each month). The ones who listen to my set they mostly say it's Analog sounding, just many times better. Better in meaning of detail, complete blackness, just more live like, more REAL.
  
 I stopped with trying to explain what happened with SQ after each improvement, it isn't describable with phrases like "better highs", "better lows", even not with "better tonality".
 It all just gets more REAL. The steps we make nowadays, at least in my case, they all point to better translation into reality. I have a few recordings, live ones, in which I was present at time of the recordings. I must admit, lately they *almost* sound like if I'm there again, at the concert. If we ever will achieve a 100% identical reproduction of live recordings (or others), I don't know, but for sure this is what we are trying to accomplish. It seems we are close, very close, at least in my case, but there's still room for improvement, and I think there will always be room for improvement.
  
  
 Have fun with the best hobby EVER, and more importantly, don't forget to listen to the MUSIC!
  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## prot

abartels
Like said, I wont worry so much about that F1 thing. 
And the DDCs in that xmos thread have all sorts of 'magic' powers .. most of them borderline ridiculous .. or way past. 
The 'speakers dissapearing' act is 99.99% a function of 3 factors: speakers, room and the recording itself. My sonus fabers 'dissapear' with almost any source .. the entire soundtage is on the wall behind and if you close your eyes you cannot say where the speakers are located. With or without a DDC. It actually happens even with low quality fm/internet radio signal. 
There are of course many diffs between various playback chains but DDCs dont rewrite the laws of acoustics. My cat has a lot better chances to make the speakers dissapear than any ddc 

And I fully agree with your "it sounds more real" statement. That's the best way to grade hifi sound and the purpose of any audiophile setup. I dont think your playback chain needs any more upgrades, at this point I would concentrate on room acoustics and/or correction (e.g. Acourate, Dirac, etc). A lot more potential in there and much more cost effective.

rootscript
Nice find, that up-board looks very interesting. Should be perfect for an xbmc machine. 
It's however very hard to say how it'll sound just from the specs .. maybe someone will test it & report


----------



## rootscript

prot said:


> @rootscript
> Nice find, that up-board looks very interesting. Should be perfect for an xbmc machine.
> It's however very hard to say how it'll sound just from the specs .. maybe someone will test it & report


 
 There also seems to be a Python library used on Raspberry Pi platforms to control GPIO pins.
  
https://up-community.org/UpWiki/index.php/RPi.GPIO
  
 In addition to GPIO control, it is also used by many other libraries to query the Raspberry Pi hardware version as header pin layouts differed between certain versions.
 As the UP board has a similar header pin layout to the Raspberry Pi 2, we have created a port of the RPi.GPIO library for UP. This allows many existing Python scripts developed for Raspberry Pi to be used on UP also.
  

  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I would love to try the Audiophonics iSabre V3 DAC board connected via the 40 pin header to this new 'UP board'.[/color]
  
http://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/dac-diy/audiophonics-i-sabre-dac-es9023-v3-tcxo-raspberry-pi-20-a-b-i2s-p-10657.html
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]As the UP board has x86 CPU it should be able to be used with Roon Labs Server software, and then connect it straight to my amplifier & speakers (Not having a computer directly connected to my DAC via USB would be a good idea, I2S connection seems better).[/color]
  
https://roonlabs.com/downloads.html
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]The Up board appears to have the same form factor as the Rasberry Pi & the same 40 pin connector & pin definition GPIO header, and now with RPi.GPIO library for UP, maybe we might be closer to IS2 connected DAC with a reasonably fast CPU, RAM, storage etc... (that might also be good for connection via HDMI for XMBC/video playback too).[/color]
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]This is getting quite exciting [/color]
  
 [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]I've also posted the above to the UP community forum here: https://up-community.org/forum/general-discussion/127-up-board-i2s-connection-to-audiophonics-dac[/color]


----------



## hgpsemaj

It seems HiFiBerry offers same sort of product:
  

  
 and, T - DAC

  
 RPi-DAC DualMono with RPi-DAC-SPS,

  
 and also, PI + DAC


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> It seems HiFiBerry offers same sort of product:


 
  
 No, it's the other way around, seems up-board has an RPI alternative, but NO hardware DAC solution yet, and NO community yet, which we all depend on.....
  
 The others are old designs, by tjaekel, nowadays called Duriosound, available at http://www.gravitech.us/dusoulsoqufo.html
  
 Nice products but NO separate audio clocks as DAC+Pro has. As far as I know there's NO other RPI2/3 dac available with 2 HQ audio clocks AND I2S output.
  
 If I am mistaken, please correct me


----------



## hgpsemaj

So, which is the best solution? Please advise.


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> So, which is the best solution? Please advise.


 
  
 This seems very obvious to me, the option with it's own, high quality, audio clocks available, and that's the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro which only can be put atop RPI2/3
  
 Seems it's not clear how this rpi thingie works. I will try to explain:
  
 -1 Raspberry Pi is a low computing device which supports several Linux distributions, and some others which are not interesting for audio purposes
 -2 Raspberry Pi has no audio clocks, it has a 19.2MHz clock for Broadcom chipset. This TCXO is also used to devide/multiply for audio frequencies. Clock signals are VERY jittery
 -3 If you want to use Raspberry Pi for audio, best is to use a DAC on top (called a HAT) with it's own HQ audio clocks. Those audio clocks, as in every DDC, are very important.
 -4 For the moment there's only ONE solution as HAT with it's own audio clocks (2 pieces!!!) which ALSO has I2S output on board. Others, with I2S output don't have 2 audio clocks.
 -5 There are other options to derive I2S DIRECTLY from Raspberry Pi, or from Beaglebone Black, or from this new up-board, but, again, those clock signals are VERY jittery.
 -6 If you want a Raspberry Pi, Beaglebone Black or up-board with DIRECT I2S output, you need something like Ians (Ian Canada) FIFO II + Isolator board + DualXO II clock board
 -7 Cheapest option with very High SQ is DAC+Pro I2S output. This again can improved with Ians FIFO II + Isolator + DualXO II clockboard with I2S output.
  
 There are many software options available.


----------



## prot

abartels
any news about your iancanada project?


----------



## abartels

I still have to send the set back to him for testing, but would like to test it myself again. Need a reg from him to test without isolatorboard


----------



## abartels

Just wrote new post on Uptone thread about the best option for external powering with batteries.
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/975#post_12575443
  
  
 Maybe it's time for me to invest in a new project........................................................


----------



## rootscript

abartels said:


> This seems very obvious to me, the option with it's own, high quality, audio clocks available, and that's the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro which only can be put atop RPI2/3
> 
> Seems it's not clear how this rpi thingie works. I will try to explain:
> 
> ...


 
 @*abartels - Thanks for the Rasberry Pi (clock and I2S) explanation, that info is very useful.*
  
 I thought this was intersting too: 
"Bryston has just announced that it is working on a brand new digital music player called the BDP-π that will replace the company’s BDP-1 digital player.

Built upon the Raspberry Pi and HifiBerry platform, the new BDP-π will be faster and more capable than the classic BDP-1 model. "

Here is a pic of the board:


----------



## prot

Looks like bryston is building your RPi player abartels


----------



## rootscript

Just added a few images to help the explanations here about HiFiberry DAC+ PRO
  

  

  

  

 It's nice to keep all the info close to *abartels *useful explanation.


----------



## rootscript

The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel, seems to rate the Audiophonics DAC I SABRE V3 0 for Raspberry Pi better sounding than the Hifiberry DAC+ Pro
  

  
 Any thoughts on this?
 It starts getting interesting about 2:50 into the video


----------



## abartels

@rootscript
  
 Thanks for all the information, very useful! (except the red text at TCXO's has to be switched between both TCXO's,
 that's what I came across when replacing the XpressO TCXO's with NDK NZ2520SD's)
  
  
 Hans Beekhuyzen could be very right in his comparison, BUT, I don't use the dac's analog stage, I only use it for I2S output to feed my (external) DAC
 AudioPhonics pcb doesn't have I2S output.
  
 Btw, Bryston uses the HifiBerry Digi+. It only has Digital output in SPDIF format, NO I2S, and further, it only has ONE crystal, probably for 44.1 / 88.2 / 176.4 kHz.
 The other frequencies will be derived from RPI's clock, which is very jittery.
  
 Further, the Hifiberry Digi+ has a simple Crystal on board, it's not a Crystal Oscillator.........
  
 Not sure what they are planning to do with it,,,,,,,,,


----------



## hgpsemaj

Durio Sound PRO US$75.00
  
 For your information:


----------



## hgpsemaj

This Lucid Labs Raspberry Pi DAC lets you turn your $35.00 Raspberry Pi 2 Model B into an Audiophile Quality music player using I2s audio over the Raspberry Pi's GPIO pins

Texas Instruments PCM5102A 32bit/384KHZ DAC Chip
TPS7A4700 Ultra Low Noise Linear Regulator for extremely clean power supply
High quality components and connectors throughout
Made in America

 US$29.99 each


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Durio Sound PRO US$75.00
> 
> For your information:


 
  
 No audio clocks on board, thus NO master clock available, AND very jittery LRCK - BCLK - DATA


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> This Lucid Labs Raspberry Pi DAC lets you turn your $35.00 Raspberry Pi 2 Model B into an Audiophile Quality music player using I2s audio over the Raspberry Pi's GPIO pins
> 
> Texas Instruments PCM5102A 32bit/384KHZ DAC Chip
> TPS7A4700 Ultra Low Noise Linear Regulator for extremely clean power supply
> ...


 
  
 And again, no audio clocks on board, uses I2S from RPI GPIO pins, thus NO master clock available, AND very jittery LRCK - BCLK - DATA


----------



## hgpsemaj

Thanks for the information.


----------



## rootscript

@abartels - let's see if this one is any closer (i'm hoping it is), looks like 3 clocks.
 " three clocks: 27Mhz digi+ clone, plus dual 24.5476/22.5792"
  This one is 'coming soon', so maybe there is a chance to influence its design.
  


  
 "
Someone asked about making a Pi hat with I2S to SPDIF. Sounds like a Digi+ right? But they wanted a couple of items done differently. First it had to have transformer coupled coax. Second was the ability to supply 3.3V and 5V from an external linear supply, thus decoupling from the Pi supply. Third, high quality clocks were mentioned. Finally someone else mentioned it would be great to run the digi+ software "out of the box".

 This (Pi2media 503SPDI) hat that has the following features:

 1) WM8804 with GPIO selectable 24.5476Mhz/22.5792Mhz Clock input
 2) Clock are very low noise using NDK2520SD series. Not as low as Crytek's best, but not $20 each either!
 3) WM8804 runs in Master Mode, Pi in Slave mode so BCLK and LRCLK are very low jitter
 4) Transformer coupled Coax and Optical SPDIF output
 5) LT3042 Ultra-Low Noise, High PSRR LDO for SPDIF PLL and Crystal supply
 6) Jumper to isolate PI 5V from Hat 5V with 2.5mm barrel jack for external 5V input
 7) 4-Layer PCB with filtered ground from Pi

 That's all the good stuff. I don't provide for external 3V since I have the LT3042 there. The one downside is that in order to switch the clock input between the two frequencies, we need to add SW to the various audio platforms. It's actually easy to do, but it means we'll have to provide the modified platforms to our users until it can be integrated into the next releases. We could make version that has a single 27Mhz clock so the Digi+ code could run without change. The main issue with that is the increased jitter from using the WM8804 internal PLL to create the proper frequencies.
 Any input would be great.
"
  
 Here is a link to the schematics: http://www.pi2design.com/uploads/4/8/5/3/48531975/503spd1_sch_p1.pdf


----------



## abartels

rootscript said:


> @abartels - let's see if this one is any closer (i'm hoping it is), looks like 3 clocks.
> " three clocks: 27Mhz digi+ clone, plus dual 24.5476/22.5792"
> This one is 'coming soon', so maybe there is a chance to influence its design.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for this VERY interesting project link!
  
 I commented on their page, sadly it doesn't have I2S output. Without I2S there's no need for me to try it.
  
 Further, they use NDK NZ2520SD's, which I was very fond of in the past, but, I modified one DAC+Pro with NZ2520SD's and it sounded less open, less blackness than with XpressO TCXO's


----------



## abartels

Strange, there was a post from @motberg in this thread which I received in mail but did not show up in the thread:
  
*DDC - Digital USB interfaces - Xmos or Amanero Combo384 based - Raspberry Pi - HifiBerry DAC+ Pro - reviews, comparison, modifications and USB-Audio in general*

motberg replied to this thread on May 13, 6:07 pm

Thanks - Nice find, especially since they are discussing UP board compatibility....  I hope @abartels can comment..


----------



## motberg

abartels said:


> Strange, there was a post from @motberg in this thread which I received in mail but did not show up in the thread:
> 
> *DDC - Digital USB interfaces - Xmos or Amanero Combo384 based - Raspberry Pi - HifiBerry DAC+ Pro - reviews, comparison, modifications and USB-Audio in general*
> 
> ...


 

 yeah I noticed that post went missing.... wierd....
 too bad no i2S on that latest cool find by rootscript, seems the designer is on a good path... I will keep an eye on that... love the UP board idea also! I hope they sell a ton....


----------



## prot

http://archimago.blogspot.de/2016/05/measurements-odroid-c2-with-volumio-2.html
Looks like everyone is into 'rpi stuff' lately


----------



## hgpsemaj

Yes, it's quite interesting,
  
Review: ODROID-C2, compared to Raspberry Pi 3 and Orange Pi Plus 
  

  
  
 http://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2016/review-odroid-c2-compared-raspberry-pi-3-and-orange-pi-plus
  
 http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/03/01/raspberry-pi-3-odroid-c2-and-pine-a64-development-boards-comparison/


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Yes, it's quite interesting,
> 
> Review: ODROID-C2, compared to Raspberry Pi 3 and Orange Pi Plus
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing this with us! Odroid indeed seems to be very nice too!!! Nicest thing is, they are same size, just like up-board and rpi, so very easy to try them within existing enclosure!
  
 I did built-in my rpi-dac+pro into my MonsterDac, used spare backpanel of enclosure to accomplish this. Have to fix some minor issues this evening and will post listening impression later this evening!
  

  
 Regards,
  
 Alex


----------



## prot

Looks like ess is quite serious about the new 9038 chip. Some call it revolutionary, maybe I should sell my 9018 asap 
And they did release some extra support components too. E.g. this looks like an interesting regulator 
http://www.esstech.com/files/3414/5193/1543/ES9311_product_brief_121715.pdf
IIUC, that may save a lot of space in your MonsterDac abartels

P.S.
There is also a new 4497 from akm. A good year for dac chips


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Looks like ess is quite serious about the new 9038 chip. Some call it revolutionary, maybe I should sell my 9018 asap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup, I know, but I'll rather go for the AKM4497 which sampled already in Q4 2015, still waiting for a new diyinhk pcb.
  
 I prefer the "no nonsense" philosophy  from AKM, keeping a DAC chip a DAC chip, no less no more.
 Also like the idea of the bigger the bubble in their graphs the better the SQ. You can see clearly the AK4490 has better specs than AK4495 but the latter has a much bigger bubble, thus better SQ.
  
 AK4497 is best og both worlds, and more....
  
 But, 9038pro looks nice indeed, on paper.
  
 Lots of soldering work ahead


----------



## abartels

abartels said:


> I did built-in my rpi-dac+pro into my MonsterDac, used spare backpanel of enclosure to accomplish this. Have to fix some minor issues this evening and will post listening impression later this evening!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did incorporate RPI+DAC+Pro in my MonsterDAC, shielded AK4495SEQ and RPI+DAC+Pro with EMI/RFI absorbing material and shielded all with copperfoil (connected to ground).
  
 This was the cherry on the cake 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Again it sounds more realistic!
  
 Next step is to exchange LME49720HA with a top, discrete build, opamp!
  
  
 Will keep you guys posted!
  
  
 Cheers  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Alex


----------



## conquerator2

No R2R or based on similar design = no buy


----------



## prot

An excellent DDC comparison review (berkeley & audiophilleo). IMHO, the first one that deserves to be called a review (as opposed to the usual anecdotes about someone's ears) 
http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/high-performance-pc-server-interfaces-async-usb.8/#post-10

Each one of those measurement graphs is worth a lot more than a thousand posts.


----------



## prot

An F1 against network/dante comparison
http://www.head-fi.org/t/647917/dangerous-music-source-dac/200_50#post_12591982

So .. network is better .. rpi+i2s is better .. none of the new usb 'wonders' beats a 10year old puc2. Quite a mistery why so many people still keep pursuing those usb ddc-s. There's a new 'usb wonder device' every week and none is good. And if you count the extra money and time spent on all sorts of cleaners/regens/cables/etc, this Usb thing might just be the worst that ever hapened to audio...


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> An excellent DDC comparison review (berkeley & audiophilleo). IMHO, the first one that deserves to be called a review (as opposed to the usual anecdotes about someone's ears)
> http://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/high-performance-pc-server-interfaces-async-usb.8/#post-10
> 
> Each one of those measurement graphs is worth a lot more than a thousand posts.


 
 100% Agree!  Very good comparison!!
  
 Btw, don't bother about the HDMI, it's HDMI Audio which doesn't have anything in common with I2S over HDMI.....


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> An F1 against network/dante comparison
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/647917/dangerous-music-source-dac/200_50#post_12591982
> 
> So .. network is better .. rpi+i2s is better .. none of the new usb 'wonders' beats a 10year old puc2. Quite a mistery why so many people still keep pursuing those usb ddc-s. There's a new 'usb wonder device' every week and none is good. And if you count the extra money and time spent on all sorts of cleaners/regens/cables/etc, this Usb thing might just be the worst that ever hapened to audio...


 
  
 Very nice find!!!


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> 100% Agree!  Very good comparison!!
> 
> Btw, don't bother about the HDMI, it's HDMI Audio which doesn't have anything in common with I2S over HDMI.....




Well I do bother about hdmi . The receiver+hdmi input is my main setup and I'll have to see if there are any measurements for my marantz. 
And btw did lots of experiments with room correction dsp lately. Highly recommended. If there ever was a night&day that's it!


----------



## mhamel

abartels said:


> Very nice find!!!


 
  
 I couldn't be happier with the Dante / RedNet solution. Straightforward, no extra tweaks needed, no USB hassles.
  
 From the F-1 thread, Muziqboy has also given the RedNet solution a shot and has had similar results to mine: http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived/1830#post_12606908
  
    -Mike


----------



## abartels

conquerator2 said:


> No R2R or based on similar design = no buy


 
  
 Ever heard a GOOD implemented DS like mine?


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > 100% Agree!  Very good comparison!!
> ...


 
  
  
 What kind of room correction software are you using?


----------



## abartels

abartels said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > I did built-in my rpi-dac+pro into my MonsterDac, used spare backpanel of enclosure to accomplish this. Have to fix some minor issues this evening and will post listening impression later this evening!
> ...


 
  
 Good news guys!!!!!
  
 I'm in contact with Burson Audio and will review their products in my MonsterDAC!!!
  
  
 At first I will start reviewing the very new Hybrid (partly discrete) opamp V5i which should compete with the best of the best opamps available and should bring my MonsterDAC to another level!
 I also will review this Hybrid opamp with my two low cost dac's, just to see how they can perform with a top opamp in them. Will test both Dual and Single versions.
  
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/
  
 At a later stage I even will review the super V5 discrete opamp which again should bring my MonsterDAC to another level 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/
  
 Btw, yesterday I had a "Jam session" with a friend of mine (probably the neighbours jammed too..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 He heard my MonsterDAC before, with the DIYINHK isolated USB XMOS interface which sounded superb to his (and my) ears.
 This was the first time he heard the dac with RPI/DAC+Pro/I2S directly into dac. He stayed 2 hours longer then planned, couldn't stop listening to all his favorite tracks.
 Tidal HIFI helped a lot so he could play his own music instead of my local music collection. Some tracks which weren't available at Tidal we played from Spotify.
 Very glad there's support within LMS for all those streaming services 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 He was VERY impressed, after listening to a lot of High-End sets the past 30 years, he told me yesterday he NEVER heard ANYTHING like this, even not the 50-100K$-Up riggs
  
 Just like me he was amazed how original Redbook material can sound. I have a lot of High-Res music, 192K and SACD which sounds very good, but to be honest,
 in most cases we preferred Redbook above High-Res. Redbook seems to be more musical, and there weren't any details we were missing in comparisson to High-Res / SACD.
 It's just so marvelous sounding, it's almost unbelievable this even could get any better at all, but we all know, it CAN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm VERY eager to test and review the Burson Audio opamp options, this will be the next big improvement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Can't wait to test them!
  
  
 Just a question, should I start a new thread about Burson Audio opamps (since it is not DDC related), or should I keep it in this thread?
  
  
 Cheers   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

It can be a contender, can't it?


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> Good news guys!!!!!
> 
> I'm in contact with Burson Audio and will review their products in my MonsterDAC!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 That's very good news ... your Monster DAC did already sound TOTL with the USB input, hard to imagine how it could get better! 
 I'd say you shall start a separate MonsterDAC thread ... it's a wonderful device and surely deserves one  ... or maybe just rename this one.
 And I guess that Burson wants your opamp impressions here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/784790/burson-supreme-sound-audio-v5-opa-d-v5-opa-s-review 
  
  
 I tested three room correction kits.  It is very hard to extract any generic conclusions from my tests because those things depend *a lot* on the room and gear (both measurement and playback).  The results for my setup would be:
 1. Audissey MultEQ XT32 (through a Marantz receiver): wow bass and very good soundstage. The only issue: if I wanna use an external DAC, its output will go through ADC->DSP->DAC inside the receiver.  Can't say that I hear that processing much but still, it's a lot!
 2. Acourate.  Very good but the bass didn't get as clear & powerful as with Audissey.  However, I only used the trial version and a pretty average mic/preamp setup.  The software looks very profi with a million of settings and options ... should be possible to best all others with more effort and better measuring gear.
 3. RoomEQ.  Very simple/easy and also pretty good in terms of SQ. And it's free if you just use the foobar plugin.
 And now I do not know which one to choose


----------



## prot

@hgpsemaj ... are those audiogd opamps?


----------



## hgpsemaj

Hello Prot,
  
 Those are from NewClassD / Denmark;
  
 http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=122&hv=1


----------



## prot

And the first ess9038 dac is out
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/05/ayre-acoustics-show-off-qx-5-twenty-digital-hub/
It's called a 'streaming dac' which is apparently the new device category for a Dac with an RPi inside. 
It has all the inputs on earth and a balanced HP amp too. Unfortunately priced in the $10K area .. for no freakin reason if you ask me. abartels, your monster rpi should be worth at least $15000 

also some interesting clocks linked there. Wouldnt mind one of these in my ess dac http://www.morion.com.ru/catalog_pdf/39_MV317.pdf. 
And if you expect that kind of wow-Ocxo clock in your $10k Dac, you'd be dissapointed cause ayre just used the usual $20 tcxo.

P.S.
a good resume of the new digital wonders from munich 2016. Streaming Dacs galore
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/digital-sources-a-bakers-dozen-from-munich-high-end-2016/


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> It can be a contender, can't it?


 
  
 Yes it can! Would be nice to compare them all


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Good news guys!!!!!
> ...


 
  
 Very nice findings, looking for rpi room correction.....
  
 Probably will start a MonsterDAC thread, indedd it deserves a dedicated thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And thanks for the compliments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's no comparison anymore with the USB version you heard at your place, this has an extra dimension 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Agree that Burson probably want me to post review in the dedicated Burson thread!


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> It can be a contender, can't it?


 
  
 There are more contenders, the ones I send you from TaoBao, two different Jfet versions, probably will review them too


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> And the first ess9038 dac is out
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/05/ayre-acoustics-show-off-qx-5-twenty-digital-hub/
> It's called a 'streaming dac' which is apparently the new device category for a Dac with an RPi inside.
> It has all the inputs on earth and a balanced HP amp too. Unfortunately priced in the $10K area .. for no freakin reason if you ask me. @abartels, your monster rpi should be worth at least $15000
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the very informative links! Very interesting stuff!
  
 I'm very eager to try the discrete opamps and maybe some other clocks and isolation / reclocking stuff from Ian to get another dimension 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And, AK4497 is on it's wat this year, at least I suppose it is,,,,
  
 Need a bigger enclosure...........


----------



## abartels

NEED TO COPY / PASTE LINK BELOW IN A NEW BROWSER SCREEN, OTHERWISE LINK WILL BE REDIRECTED (HEADFI PROBLEM???)
  
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/14936637285.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.dLahKj#detail


----------



## abartels

Today I installed LMS on my new Qnap TS-853A-8G NAS.
  
 It's working great, fast, even while copying al my music files to it. Listening right now and it sounds at least as good as LMS on my heavy laptop i7-16Gb-2x250GB SSD - Server 2012R2+AO
 Seems there's no difference in SQ between them, so now I can "ditch" my laptop and just connect my network player directly to NAS.
  
 This NAS even has 2x HDMI output directly from NAS with 4K support, so can use it with Plex-Kodi-Xbmc directly from NAS (RC included in package 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 It even has it's own ADC/DAC on board for Karaoke hahahahahaha, now I can sing along when playing my songs, hahahaha     N O T   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  




  
  
 Very glad I went this route, music files are stored safe now, redundant, using RAID5 with 4 2TB WD-Red drives and 1x 250Gb SSD for cache acceleration.
  
 Minor issue: I have to update LMS 7.7.2 to 7.9.x to enable DSD playback and until now not find how to manage this.
  
  
  
 Highly recommended!


----------



## prot

Congrats for the new toy & simplified setup. 
I already have a custom storage server so I'll be more interested in your karaoke videos


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Congrats for the new toy & simplified setup.
> I already have a custom storage server so I'll be more interested in your karaoke videos


 
  
 Hahahahahaha, not going to happen


----------



## baek47

Hi
  
 Have anyone succesfully connected F-1 XMOS USB Digital Interface Module XU208 to a Raspberry Pi2.
  
 I have tried Moode, Volumio, Rune - no succes.
  
 Please how to?
  
 -baek47


----------



## abartels

baek47 said:


> Hi
> 
> Have anyone succesfully connected F-1 XMOS USB Digital Interface Module XU208 to a Raspberry Pi2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nope, I only tried once with a diyinhk isolated xmos and got it working with PiCoreplayer with "USB Audio" output setting.
  
 But, since RPI has far better options than using it's USB-out to connect to a USB DDC I suppose there aren't many
 who will walk this road.
  
 Just buy a HAT with SPDIF-out for your RPI2, that's the best option if needed SPDIF. If you even could use I2S, that would be preferable, no extra conversions needed.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## b0bb

baek47 said:


> Hi
> 
> Have anyone succesfully connected F-1 XMOS USB Digital Interface Module XU208 to a Raspberry Pi2.
> 
> ...


 

 I had the F-1 connected to the Pi on PicorePlayer, it just shows up on the list of the available interfaces and I select it.
 Just make sure the power supply you are using with on the Pi is sufficient to power the Pi and the F-1,  I used a 5V@2.2A power supply.
  
 Going usb->spdif via the F-1 sounds much worse than going to the usb input on the DAC directly.
 I used it with my Schiit Yggy.


----------



## hgpsemaj

For your information:


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> For your information:


 
  
 Thanks for the info, can you post a link please? This is not a HAT but complete AK4497EQ dac, or am I missing something?


----------



## hgpsemaj

Work in progress, this is all I got in hand at this moment. And, I shall keep you inform about the progress.


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Work in progress, this is all I got in hand at this moment. And, I shall keep you inform about the progress.


 
  
 Thanks!!! Much appreciated!


----------



## hgpsemaj

For your information:


----------



## Youth

Anyone tried Intona USB Isolater?


----------



## abartels

youth said:


> Anyone tried Intona USB Isolater?


 
  
 You'd better consult the XMOS U208 thread, there's a lot of talk about USB optimizing devices:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 This thread lately is more concentrated on low-computing devices, such as Raspberry Pi, with add on HAT's which have I2S output, to feed DAC directly.
  
 I am very confident that this is THE way to go. After being an owner of DualPC config (AO and Jplay) with heavily modified and optimized PC systems (hardware),
 the result of using a simple RPI based I2S source is absolutely stunning. It runs circles around DualPC config's SQ. It's playing in a whole other league.
  
 After intensive testing with USB as transport layer, I came to the conclusion that it is best, if wanting the highest possible SQ available, to abandon USB.
  
 There are many other solutions like RedNet3 (as described in U208 thread) which can perform very good, but I still am convinced that the simplest way,
 low-computing devices with isolated and reclocked I2S output to feed DAC's I2S input directly, is far better than all those other, costly, solutions.
  
 It's not that strange that there are many maufacturers of high-end audio equipment which are walking the same road.
 Those all are server-client based audio solutions, in which, in my case, server side is a NAS (Network Attached Storage) with lightweight Music server software
 installed on it (LMS 7.9) and a RaspBerry Pi running PicorePlayer which plays music files from NAS directly into the DAC with shortest signal path possible.
  
 This way you have all music files safely stored (NAS with RAID 5 configuration) and storage is expandable if needed more storage. No need of costly PC's
 anymore. My NAS even has Kodi installed on it, and NAS (QNAP TS-853-A-8Gb) has HDMI output which directly can play 4K movies to my 52" TV set as well.
 It's the best solution ever.
  
 I use Qremote app on my phone to controll Kodi and play movies, and iPeng on my iPad and phone to control music playback (formerly squeezebox).
  
 If wanting to use NAS for storage only, and installing LMS, there are many Netgear devices which can do the trick and who do cost not as much as my Qnap.
 I decided to buy the Qnap because of it's 8 Bays, which gives me lot's of expansion options, and it's direct 4K HDMI output feature which runs my mediacenter pc obsolete.
  
 Btw, LMS also has plugins available for music streaming services such as Deezer, Spotify and Tidal (HIFI). I use Tidal Hifi which performs fantastic, it's lossless FLAC.
 The ease of use of this system, the quietness (I put the NAS, which does have fans inside, in the hall next to my living room, and connect with a long HDMI cable(15meters)
 to my TV set and a CAT6 cable to a switch near my audio set), the safe storage of my 2Tb precious music collection, and last, but definitely not least, the superb
 sound quality, is a real killer.
  
 Btw, if not wanting to use a NAS, you just can use a simple laptop or other pc and put LMS on it. This doesn't impact SQ. I tested this intensively, compared between
 i7-16Gb pc with 2x 250Gb SSD's and i3-4Gb pc with 1x 250Gb SSD and my QNAP TS-853A-8Gb. There's absolutely NO difference in SQ.
  
 Link LMS:
 http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.9
  
 Link PicorePlayer:
 https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home
  
 Link HifiBerry DAC+Pro:
 https://www.hifiberry.com/dacplus/
  
 Link Raspberry pi org:
 https://www.raspberrypi.org/
  
  
 Have fun!
  
 Alex


----------



## motberg

youth said:


> Anyone tried Intona USB Isolater?


 

 In my system I think it is indispensable for using USB. I currently have the standard version, but just took delivery of the industrial version.
  
 Over at CA also available some good info, a nice recent post in the "W4S and other USB fixers (non curated)" thread - post #267.
 I agree with that CA user (but I do not have a MSB Analogue DAC , I have the W4S and Regen also, but I think my final USB chain will be with Intona only.
  
 I hope to in the future try the Raspberry/i2S option, but the necessary isolators and reclockers are still in development, unless you are super-DIY capable.
 If I was in the USA and my DAC's best inputs would be the AES or SPDIF, then I would try the RedNet stuff immediately...
  
 Other possible good options for USB isolation is the StarTech USB/Ethernet extender system as described in the HF posts and the upcoming PSAudio LANRover.


----------



## prot

Guess who just put an RPi inside their DAC
http://www.totaldac.com/D1-integral-eng.htm
Looks like a perfect device .. however the ~€8500 price is not exactly likeable. 

Especially since nowadays one can buy a soekris DAC+amp for about €1200 
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=223862.0
add a RPi and you get pretty much the exact same thing for *a lot* less money


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Guess who just put an RPi inside their DAC
> http://www.totaldac.com/D1-integral-eng.htm
> Looks like a perfect device .. however the ~€8500 price is not exactly likeable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 They finally got it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.vinshineaudio.com/ is a good start, but if you want to take the best from Soekris, you would have to feed all stages with separate psu lines, which VinshineAudio doesn't provide.....


----------



## prot

abartels said:


> They finally got it
> 
> http://www.vinshineaudio.com/ is a good start, but if you want to take the best from Soekris, you would have to feed all stages with separate psu lines, which VinshineAudio doesn't provide.....




How about you making a better one?


----------



## abartels

That is one of the future projects I am planning


----------



## prot

You do that fast, before the whole HiFi industry goes bonkers. 
This is the kind of bollocks that audio magazines write nowadays with an (apparently) straight face:
"the buzz has it that [their] $15,000 moving coil phono preamplifier is a giant killer."


----------



## prot

Found one of those rare pure-dsd DACs: http://www.amaremusica.pl/tube-dac-dsd/


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> Found one of those rare pure-dsd DACs: http://www.amaremusica.pl/tube-dac-dsd/


 
  
 Nice find! It's technology is based on "The best dac is NO dac", upsampling all signals to DSD and take use of first order low pass filter only.
  
 Ian Canada is working on hardware FIFO to DSD upsampling, could use one of the Acko NO DSD options, or maybe a future solution from Ian himself 
 Would be nice to see it as a HAT for RPI, it's very quiet around Ian lately though, he's at test phase now...


----------



## abartels

Last Saturday I changed my Opamp output (LME49720HA) with discrete output.
 After 1 day of burn-in time I have to say it's VERY good. This I should have implemented from day one!
 This makes my MonsterDAC sing, very realistic sounding with huge tight bass fundament.
 And, it's $18 only   Will try replacing the 4x diode with 4x LED for even better noise floor.
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/15260673023.htm?fromSite=main&spm=686.1000925.1000774.36.T9Fuk3 
  




  
 Also available in single version, which is VERY cheap too at $7,50
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/18520100858.htm?fromSite=main
  




  
 I first tried the default extension cable, which was very flimsy, and didn't sound good at all.
 Finally I made an extension cable with CAT7 and put 1000uF 50V Nichicon Muse + 0.01uF MKP cap close to +/-15V.
 This did the trick 
  
 Highly recommended!!!!!!!


----------



## prot

abartels 
Those opamps look quite good, especially for the price. Might try some. 

And in other news, here's another new DAC with an RPi inside 
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/04/19/axpona-2016-bricasti-design-dials-it-to-12/. Also has a dedicated pure-dsd decoder. 

I guess it's already safe to say that RPi-inside is the new black 

P.S.
not sure if I mentioned this one before
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/05/ayre-acoustics-show-off-qx-5-twenty-digital-hub/
Also RPi-inside and probably the first DAC with the latest ess9038 chip.


----------



## abartels

prot said:


> @abartels
> Those opamps look quite good, especially for the price. Might try some.
> 
> And in other news, here's another new DAC with an RPi inside
> ...


 
  
 Nice find! RPI (or LOW COMPUTING in general) rules 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The Ayre link (you shared it before) has a nice statement:
  
*"This is a streaming DAC. One that sidesteps the conversation about third party streamers, their preferred connection protocols (USB or S/PDIF?) and associated cable choices.*
* The shorter signal paths afforded by an internalised streaming board means I2S can pipe streamed audio to the D/A converter directly."*
  
That exactly is how I think it should be, nothing more, nothing less.
  
Btw, nice report, also on using Spotify since it is lossy, but it all is about MUSIC, isn't it 
I use Tidal HiFi too, and once in a while I use a friends Spotify account to stream tracks which aren't available on Tidal HiFi.
And, off course my 1.5Tb lossless music library still is used most of the time.
  
  
Discrete Class-A Mosfet outputstage still is in it's burn-in phase, but man oh man, does this thing sound good!!!!!
I'm very sure I NEVER will go back to opamps anymore. I started opamp rolling back in the late eighties, and used them for simple and cheap tasks.
At that time LT and BB were the best brands to use, much later the LME's were a very good choice.
For my pre amp, power amp and dac I used Class-A Mosfet stages, built with Ferranti Mosfets (EOL).
When deciding to build a new dac I just "forgot" how important it was to use a HQ discrete output stage, I simply did put all my effort into optimizing digital and psu lines.
  
 Btw, MANY thanks for posting the Ayre link again, they mentioned the Morion (O-V-T)CXO's which are exceptionally good!!!
 Maybe @b0bb can put some of those specs into his calculator!
  
 http://www.morion.com.ru/eng/oscillators/
  
 From their website:
  

 
*Oven Controlled Oscillators (OCXOs & DOCXOs):**Temperature Compensated Oscillators (TCXOs):**Voltage Controlled and Simple Oscillators(VCXOs & XOs):*






 Morion, Inc. is the company, focused on the development and manufacturing of high-end and TOP level precision and ultra precision quartz oscillators with a tight combination of the parameters (including resistance to severe environmental conditions), fully capable to ensure their long term and high volume production. That is the field where Morion has gained the largest experience and where it is able to ensure the best combination of achievable parameters and delivery conditions.

 Our production process and unique team of highly qualified specialist and design engineers allow Morion to adopt existing quartz oscillators' solutions for exact needs and custom requirements of wide range of applications.

 For instance Morion's OCXOs ensures the following main features:
      • Frequency range: from 4 MHz to 700 MHz (including up to 120 MHz without multiplication);
      • High frequency stability vs. operating temperature range: up to ±5x10-11;
      • High long-term frequency stability: up to ±5x10-9 per year and ±5x10-8 per 10 years;
      • High short-term frequency stability (Allan Variance): up to 5x10-13 per 1...10 sec;
      • Low phase noise:
           - up to -115 dBc/Hz at 1 Hz;
           - up to -165 dBc/Hz at 10 kHz.
      • Low power consumption: up to 0.2...0.4 W;
      • Fast warm-up time: up to <30 sec;
      • Small size: 20x20x10 mm for a precision OCXO;
      • Resistance to severe environmental conditions.

 Morion's quartz oscillators are widely used in different types of equipment. Application examples are following:
      • Cellular base stations (GSM, CDMA, WCDMA, TD-SCDMA, WiMaX & Wibro);
      • Radio transmissions equipment;
      • On board and land-based frequency standards and synchronization facilities;
      • Time keeping, synchronization and navigation equipment (GPS-GLONASS);
      • Land-based stations of satellite communication (VSAT, etc.);
      • Test and measurement equipment;
      • Digital television equipment;
      • ATM/SDH equipment;
      • Radar stations equipment, etc.

 On our web-site you can find the information about the latest Morion's products. We proceed the manufacturing of old types of the products, but in your new projects we kindly ask you to use modern Morion's solutions.

  
  
  
  
What a nice hobby we have


----------



## b0bb

Originally Posted by *abartels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 Maybe @b0bb can put some of those specs into his calculator!  


  
 If you have a specific XO in mind , post the link, Morion only has one 100MHz 3.3V  XO that works in the LKS, the MV269


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> Originally Posted by *abartels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Maybe @b0bb can put some of those specs into his calculator!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the offer b0bb, but they don't have any audio frequency versions, only usable 10/50/100mHz versions for Sabre.


----------



## abartels

Hi guys,
  
 I started a new thread about a newly discovered netfilter ( 230V Only!!!)
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/814781/powerfilter-with-11-sockets-powergrip-yg-1-improved-belkin-pf50-filter-user-reviews-thoughts-alternatives
  
 Take a look, it's about this beauty:
  

  
 Cheers!
  
 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

My Win10 could detect the Amanero, but can not hear any music.Please advise.


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> My Win10 could detect the Amanero, but can not hear any music.Please advise.


 
  
 Hello Riemann,
  
 Please check and double check all I2S connections from Amanero to DAC. Please, POWER OFF unit(s) before checking wiring.
 If Windows 10 shows activity in playback devices, the green bar, it means Windows 10 does detect Amanero and use it for playback sound.
  
 I think it's your dac, or the power to your dac. Please look if anything got loose during transportation.
  
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

It looks ok, innit?


----------



## abartels

just to be sure, did you use the same usb port as yesterday?
  
 Can you try with another source (I2S HDMI)?


----------



## hgpsemaj

Hello Alex,
  
 Believe it or not? I just follow your instruction and put the lid back, and it works again.
  
 hahaha very happy.
  
  
  
 Many thanks.
  
  
 Riemann


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Hello Alex,
> 
> Believe it or not? I just follow your instruction and put the lid back, and it works again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Riemann,
  
 Glad it worked out!!!
  
 Wish you lots of listening pleasure, this will be one of the first times of listening to music in your new listeningroom 
  
 Keep me posted, you've got email also, not sure if your internet connection is very stable, your WhatsApp is going on and off the whole time... 
  
 I just soldered 2 new crystals, XpressO Ultra's for use with Ian's FIFO II   Will try first with low cost chinese dac, and if it works it'll be implemented in MonsterDAC


----------



## abartels

Hi guys,
  
 A few days ago I started soldering some XpressO Ultra TCXO's onto pcb's for use in Ian Canada's FIFO II reclocker which I own.
 Couldn't test this before because I didn't had the right TCXO frequencies, needed for AK4495SEQ dac, which is:
  
 FXU-HC738 (20ppm) 22.5792mHz
 FXU-HC736 (25ppm) 24.576 mHz
  
 Got them from FOX Electronics as sample, needed for students project at school, but sadly they did arrive much too late when schoolyear almost was over,,,,
 So, I had the opportunity to use them in this project, and I must say, I don't regret it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (review of FXU-HC73x in comparison to NZ-2520SD will follow later)
  
 Mounted them on Ian Canada's TCXO boards:
  

  
  
  
 Used some 3M AB5100S EMI/RFI absorbing material leftovers to cover the TCXO's:
  

  
  
 Finally put Vishay 1837 0.01uF MKP's on top of them:
  

  
  
  
 They are burnin-in in Ian's FIFO II - Isolator - DUALXO II reclocker, and, so far so good 
  
 Use them, for testing, with a low-cost Chinese AK4495SEQ I2S-Only dac, together with Bursun V5i-D opamp (for reviewing)
  

  
  
  

  
  
  
 RPI2 using piCorePlayer 2.06, I2S output from GPIO thru Ian Canada's I2S output adapter fed into FIFO II.
  
 Sound so far: Astonishing!
 This set almost sounds like my "MonsterDAC" which, normally is a HUGE difference with this low-cost chinese dac, when fed I2S thru RPI+HB DAC+Pro
  
 Btw, SS V5i-D does a very good job too  Will review them when burned-in, next weekend.
  
 Finally Ian's FIFO II + Isolator + DualXO II board will be built-in in MonsterDAC. Can't wait, that's for sure 
  
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## abartels

Hi guys,
  
  
 After testing Ian's FIFO II kit with low cost Chinese AK4495SEQ dac, and reviewing the Burson SS V5i Dual opamp,
 which in my opinion maybe is the best sounding opamp ever, I managed to integrate Ian's FIFI II kit in my MonsterDAC.
  
 I had to re-arrange ALL transformers, replaced 2x R-Core for output stage with 1x R-Core, and removed 1xR-Core which
 only was intended for future usage like powering input circuitry (SPDIF/HDMI-I2S) and power led.
  
 After re-arranging all the stuff, I had enough room to mount the Ian's FIFO II kit, and power it with 2x 0.8uV low noise power supplies.
  
 I had some difficulties with I2S wiring, but in the end all worked out perfectly. The Dual XO II Board now fits 2x NDK NZ-2520SD's (45.xxx - 49.xxx)
 Tested also with XpressO Ultra TCXO's, but they definitely do not perform like the NDK's, they are best, at least, within this price range.
 Maybe will try the Pulsar clocks, but they aren't available right now, and, they will cost about $1000 a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Further, I upgraded Picoreplayer with latest software version, which is 3.01
  
  
 Some pics:
  
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
 After finishing everything and shielding with lots of EMI/RFI material and a lot of copper shielding, I let it burn-in for more than a week, just to let everything settle-in.
 I am aware of the fact that there are many of you around who play down on the burn-in phenomena, but in my (35) years of experience with this, I came to the conclusion
 that when even soldering a few wires, in digital circuitry or analog, or in power stage, ALL needs burn-in time. Replacing a few simple I2S wires needs again burn-in time
 of a week. Many of you will find this BS, but I can vow for you it DOES make a big difference.
  
 Listening experience:
  
 "Cold out of the box", without burn-in time (ALL the used components had their burn-in time in previous testing EXCEPT the new R-Core for powering discrete output stage),
 it sounded VERY airy and natural. A vocal timbre never heard before, instruments sounding very very realistic. But the DAC was missing "it's magic".
 Also I noticed a very poor behavior in low frequencies, it sounded like a pronounced 50Hz/60Hz range, kind of sounding hollow, no tightness and missing definition.
 But, I noted this behavior several times before when building and modding, and it always went away after full burn-in time. 
  
 After 7 days of burn-in time there's only one thing I can tell: *A W S O M E*
  
 Soundstage is real holographic, black, blacker, blackest, timbre is breathtaking. All red-book material, even the worst sounding ones, do have lot's of information and detail
 in them. Low frequencies are very tight and have lots of detailed information in it, even in sub-low frequencies. It's just marvelous  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I also tried to let my RPI3-PiCorePlayer upsample everything to 384 kHz and even to 768 kHz, but in the end I liked the original sample frequency at best, so I left it that way.
  
*Note:*
 I abandoned LMS server on QNAP TS-853A and use it only as network storage for my 2TB music files.
 LMS now runs on my spare HP Probook 470-i7-16Gb like before, and I managed to convert DSD to PCM on the fly at highest SQ settings, so, now SACD's are playing flawlessly.
  
 There's only one thing left I want to try in this dac, and that is to replace the Chinese discrete output stage with Burson SS V5. Not sure what it will bring, but it surely will be an enhancement too.
  
  
 Keep up the good work and have a nice weekend!
  




 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

Newly launched,
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/542900993096.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.2014080708.6.eJmZbX


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Newly launched,
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/542900993096.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.2014080708.6.eJmZbX


 
  
 Hello Riemann,
  
 This looks like a very useful and HQ psu! For about $11 it's also a bargain!
  
 In combination with this EMI filter it's top notch 
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/36513196086.htm?spm=a312a.7728556.1414651174895.4.5FjkJz&scm=1007.10146.6070.0&id=36513196086&pvid=2d41368f-cbab-4fec-b49f-580e00143f9c
  
 Thanks for the link!


----------



## b0bb

hgpsemaj said:


> Newly launched,
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/542900993096.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.2014080708.6.eJmZbX


 
 The board looks like one of the LT3042 appnote examples with the D45H10 PNP transistor as the series pass element.
  

  
 There is a better version with a NPN series pass transistor (D44H10), the output comes from the emitter giving the regulator lower output impedance which is useful for audio.
  
 PNP version uses negative feedback to provide and maintain the low impedance so the output is  affected by the load more than the second example.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> hgpsemaj said:
> 
> 
> > Newly launched,
> ...


 
  
 Hi b0bb,
  
 Thanks for pointing me to this fact, you are absolutely right. I suppose the designer was more fixated on higher current values  or, he didn't see the 2nd option within the LT3042 whitepapers, the NPN-option.....


----------



## conquerator2

I have a question regarding the Breeze Audio DI-U8, for those who remember [what happened to it? I still love it, though I don't see it up anymore].
 I've tried two different drivers so far but I can't find one that'd allow me to adjust the audio buffer or other parameters - they are more an overview but there is nothing to change or modify.
 My application would benefit much from adjusting such parameters. Thank you in advance and happy new year!


----------



## abartels

conquerator2 said:


> I have a question regarding the Breeze Audio DI-U8, for those who remember [what happened to it? I still love it, though I don't see it up anymore].
> I've tried two different drivers so far but I can't find one that'd allow me to adjust the audio buffer or other parameters - they are more an overview but there is nothing to change or modify.
> My application would benefit much from adjusting such parameters. Thank you in advance and happy new year!


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Not sure if rb2013 has those drivers, maybe ask him? I never owned a DI-U8, but I DO know that it's not always easy to mod the drivers


----------



## rb2013

abartels said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure if rb2013 has those drivers, maybe ask him? I never owned a DI-U8, but I DO know that it's not always easy to mod the drivers


 

 Hi Alex,
  
 I use the lastest XMOS for the XU208 based Singxer F-1 and they seem to work great (still using the Breeze DU-U8 in my office).  Running the ASIO St 3086 without issue.
  
 No buffer or other controls - I do that in Foobar.


----------



## conquerator2

rb2013 said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> I use the lastest XMOS for the XU208 based Singxer F-1 and they seem to work great (still using the Breeze DU-U8 in my office).  Running the ASIO St 3086 without issue.
> 
> No buffer or other controls - I do that in Foobar.


 
 Thanks rb.
 That's no good for me. Well, this might relegate the U8 to a secondary setup then.
 Thanks for the reply though :}


----------



## hgpsemaj

A new regulator:
  
 https://world.taobao.com/item/536644488579.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ym6gLH#detail


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> A new regulator:
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/536644488579.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ym6gLH#detail


 
  
 Thanks for sharing!
 This is more the kind of psu-pcb for testing purposes, nice find!


----------



## b0bb

hgpsemaj said:


> A new regulator:
> 
> https://world.taobao.com/item/536644488579.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.ym6gLH#detail


 

 Nice dual stage regulator, don't see them too often.
  
 Translated description:
 LT1942 Regulated Power Supply Board LT3042 Regulated Power Supply Board Ultra-low noise linear two-stage regulated power supply


----------



## hgpsemaj

2017 version LT3042 Regulated Power Supply Board from Mr. Lee:


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> 2017 version LT3042 Regulated Power Supply Board from Mr. Lee:


 
  
 Btw, this is LT3045 which on it's own has a maximum output of 500mA (LT3042 has 200mA only)!!
 PSRR values are not bad at all, and same noise values 
  
 Is this one user configureable? I mean, is it possible to set the desired output voltage like 1,8V 3,3V 5V 7V 9V ?
 New AK4497 dac chip needs 1.8V + 3,3V + 5V
  
 For (upcoming?) new project would need those voltages.
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## conquerator2

For anyone interested, my Breeze is up for sale


----------



## drez

Is that a transistor or a pre-reguator?


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> 2017 version LT3042 Regulated Power Supply Board from Mr. Lee:


 
  
 Do you have some more info about this psu? Maybe a taobao link?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## hgpsemaj

That's all I got in hand for this moment.


----------



## rb2013

I will order this one for a trial:
  
 LT3045 board:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Ultralow-noise-0-8-VRMS-LDO-linear-regulators-0V-15V-0-5A-1V-Step-/252719753860?hash=item3ad7456a84:g:aGwAAOSwA3dYdhLA


----------



## hgpsemaj

This could be an alternative to Soekris dam1021,
  
 Audio GD Singularity 19:


----------



## abartels

It is based on http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/DA01/DA01EN.htm
  
 Would be nice to test those in push/pull mode (4 pieces needed for stereo) and feeding with very low noise psu's. For best performance need to mod en external supply 1.8V
 Could be a winner when combined with RPI/Isolator HAT/Kali or Ian's fifo II and using Lundahl output transformers


----------



## b0bb

The need for a large 10uF DC blocking cap is a significant downside. The DC will do serious damage to the expensive Lundhal transformers if not blocked.

  
 The Soekris DAM is directly coupled.


----------



## abartels

b0bb said:


> The need for a large 10uF DC blocking cap is a significant downside. The DC will do serious damage to the expensive Lundhal transformers if not blocked.
> 
> 
> The Soekris DAM is directly coupled.


 
  
 As always b0bb, you are completely right! How could I mis this


----------



## musickid

HI,
  
 Do you know what kind of info shows up on mac audio midi set up with a usb to spdif convertor. ie sample and bit rate and can it be altered in the same way that a dac's settings can. especially for breeze du-u8 but in general for usb to spdif convertors. ive been told for eg some convertors have a fixed sample rate output regardless of sample rate input from usb side from computer. finally how do you know 100% that the convertor is actually inputting a coax signal into the dac as the dac does not show up in settings. or is that an obvious question ie the dac would not output any signal to the amp and you would have no sound if the coax signal was not entering the dac. i am completely new to the usb convertor world. thanks mk.


----------



## abartels

musickid said:


> HI,
> 
> Do you know what kind of info shows up on mac audio midi set up with a usb to spdif convertor. ie sample and bit rate and can it be altered in the same way that a dac's settings can. especially for breeze du-u8 but in general for usb to spdif convertors. ive been told for eg some convertors have a fixed sample rate output regardless of sample rate input from usb side from computer. finally how do you know 100% that the convertor is actually inputting a coax signal into the dac as the dac does not show up in settings. or is that an obvious question ie the dac would not output any signal to the amp and you would have no sound if the coax signal was not entering the dac. i am completely new to the usb convertor world. thanks mk.


 
  
 Hi musickid
  
 Sadly I don't have any mac's and absolutely no clue how to help you. I hope other members can!
  
  
 Sorry for disappointing you 
  
 Regards,
 Alex


----------



## abartels

Hi guys,
  
 For the ones who are interested in the latest improvements on my dac, here's a review of the Burson Audio SS V5 discrete opamp.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread/5550#post_13269881
  
  
 Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Alex


----------



## Paulus XII

Can the Breeze Audio U8 amplifier drive 300 Ohm headphones?


----------



## abartels

paulus xii said:


> Can the Breeze Audio U8 amplifier drive 300 Ohm headphones?


 
  
 Breeze U8 is not an amp but a DDC


----------



## Paulus XII

abartels said:


> Breeze U8 is not an amp but a DDC


 
  
 I know it's not an amp, but can its amp section drive 300 Ohm headphones? That's my doubt.


----------



## abartels

paulus xii said:


> abartels said:
> 
> 
> > Breeze U8 is not an amp but a DDC
> ...


 
  
  
 Not sure what you are aiming for.
  
 It's  a DDC, a digital device, it's not a DAC, those don't have an amp section! It has digital input (USB) and digital output (I2S/SPDIF-coax-toslink-AES).
  
 Where do you see a jackplug for connecting your headphone?


----------



## WNBC

Looks like there multiple Breeze U8 DDC configurations with headphone amp section.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/The-U8-of-natural-sounds-of-a-new-generation-of-ES9018K2M-XOMS-parallel-decoding-machine-a/32721785135.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.11.lYGd7R&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10000560_10000073_10000561_10000074_10000175_10000507_10000401_10000505_10000068_10000063_10099_10000156_10096_10000569_10000097_10000094_10000090_10000091_10000147_10000144_10084_10000150_10083_10080_10000153_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10000535_10114_10000534_10000089_10000086_10000083_10000135_10000080_10078_10079_10073_10000140_10070_10122_10123_10126_10124_10000546_10065_10068_10501_10000132_10000033_10503_10000030_10000126_10000026_10000129_10000023_10000123_432_10060_10062_10056_10055_10054_302_10059_10000120_10000020_10000117_10000013_10103_10102_10000016_10000114_10000111_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106_10000621_10000384_10000101_10000100_10000579_10000104_10000045_10000578_10000108_10000612_10000613_10000390_10000042_10000592_10000039_10000587_10000036_10000389_10000187-10503_10501,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=77e63c17-711a-41e2-b9b5-0241446f121f&algo_expid=a90a6e98-804b-48ae-9dbb-a17121ea08b9-1&algo_pvid=a90a6e98-804b-48ae-9dbb-a17121ea08b9
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Breeze-audio-SUO-XMOS-U8-AK4490-asynchronous-USB-decoder-with-headphone/32651162181.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.86.7uEg7v&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_6_10000560_10000073_10000561_10000074_10000175_10000507_10000401_10000505_10000068_10000063_10099_10000156_10096_10000569_10000097_10000094_10000090_10000091_10000147_10000144_10084_10000150_10083_10080_10000153_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10000535_10114_10000534_10000089_10000086_10000083_10000135_10000080_10078_10079_10073_10000140_10070_10122_10123_10126_10124_10000546_10065_10068_10501_10000132_10000033_10503_10000030_10000126_10000026_10000129_10000023_10000123_432_10060_10062_10056_10055_10054_302_10059_10000120_10000020_10000117_10000013_10103_10102_10000016_10000114_10000111_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106_10000621_10000384_10000101_10000100_10000579_10000104_10000045_10000578_10000108_10000612_10000613_10000390_10000042_10000592_10000039_10000587_10000036_10000389_10000187-10503_10501,searchweb201603_3,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=77e63c17-711a-41e2-b9b5-0241446f121f&algo_expid=a90a6e98-804b-48ae-9dbb-a17121ea08b9-10&algo_pvid=a90a6e98-804b-48ae-9dbb-a17121ea08b9


----------



## abartels

Aha, you are looking for a Breeze Audio DAC with a headphone section, they have U8 in their naming because of the XMOS chipset.
  
 The DDC is the DU-U8.
  
 So, to be specific, it's a USB-DAC with Headphone section. If you asked me that question in the beginning, it would have helped a lot.....
  
 About the links you posted, the one with ES9018K2m has in it's description noted: Headphones between 16 and 600 Ohms.
 For the other one there's no info.
  
  
 Please ask your suppliers, they should be in the position to help you with providing more info.


----------



## Paulus XII

abartels said:


> Aha, you are looking for a Breeze Audio DAC with a headphone section, they have U8 in their naming because of the XMOS chipset.
> 
> The DDC is the DU-U8.
> 
> ...


 

 ​Yes, exactly. the U8 DAC + Amp w/ XMOS. They say 16-600 Ohm, yes, but it's better to ask them


----------



## hgpsemaj

The latest from Mr. Lee:


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> The latest from Mr. Lee:


 
  
 Thanks for the info!


----------



## hgpsemaj

Hello,
  
 I bought this Amanero USB interface this week. It offers I2S, Coaxial and Toshlink outputs. You may power this up via external 3.3V - 5V power source, or USB 5V.
 When I power this up via an external linear 5V, I could cut off the USB 5V entirely, unlike the Gustard U12, Melodious MX-U8, Mr. Lee Amanero PCB and many other units still consuming 5V via USB simultaneously.
  
 It cost me RMB279 with metal case. It costs RMB199 for PCB only. Mind you. these days Gustard U12 costs RMB750 and Melodious MX-U8 costs RMB1,450.
  
 I must admit I'm an Amanero fanatic, so my first impression, just love it.


----------



## abartels

Looks like a very nice device Riemann, and, very good price!
  
 Does it sound better than your previous Amanero?
  
  
  
 You know, I'm a RPI-fanatic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No PC,No drivers, No USB, just I2S straight from PCM from RPI (isolated, fifo, reclocked)


----------



## hgpsemaj

For the time being, I am testing the co-axial and toshlink output. And, I shall inform you the overall performance after 200 hrs burn-in. But I have to say, so far so good.
  
 It may not be a bad idea to match Amanero with Linux/Raspeberry. You know, no drivers needed for Linux.


----------



## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> For the time being, I am testing the co-axial and toshlink output. And, I shall inform you the overall performance after 200 hrs burn-in. But I have to say, so far so good.
> 
> It may not be a bad idea to match Amanero with Linux/Raspeberry. You know, no drivers needed for Linux.


 
  
 Sounds good!
  
 But, "Matching" Amanero with RPI would be useless.
 Why would one want to do that? What would you gain in having an USB-based device called Amanero connected to an RPI? That would only render the audio-pc obsolete, nothing else.
  
 Having allready an I2S signal (which can be optimized with FIFO's - Isolators and reclockers), CONVERT it (with USB drivers-implemented in Linux) to USB signal, then CONVERT it to I2S, and if SPDIF is used it has to be converted another time.
 What would be the win in this situation???
  
 RPI=Low Computing device, does not have all the High Frequency garbage which is inherent to high-performance pc's,  does not have the garbage pc-psu, does not need the crappy USB protocol (and $$$$ USB Chain) etc etc etc etc etc etc,
 It is a very simple solution, which is common knowledge by now that it can sound superior when implemented the right way.
  
 Don't forget that, when using USB, when you want to have the best possible signal quality, you finally would end-up with I2S signal which would have to be ISOLATED, BUFFERD WITH FIFO, and RECLOCKED.
  
 This I2S signal can simply be derived from RPI with Isolator, fifo buffer, and reclocker. Total cost less than $300 when putting it in an enclosure and having I2S-RJ45 and I2S-HDMI outputs.
 And, further, don't forget this device allready would be a complete client solution, thus, it's a player which only needs a good I2S dac.
 You even could install and run LMS server together with the client on this RPI, which would make it possible to only connect to music database on NAS, or on USB-HD-SSD.
 This way it would be an all-in-one music source, just connect it to the network and connect it with your shared music, or even use the local connected storage as music source.
  
 By the way, there are lots of options and addons to play music from youtube and many streaming providers.
  
 I didn't heard of ANYBODY who tried RPI in combination with isolator/fifo/reclocker who went back to pc solution, even a DualPC solution based on Server 2012 and AO with JPlay, which I owned before.
  
 It is clear that I am a RPI-I2S fanatic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No hard feelings, for all others who are very happy with USB DDC's, just keep doing what you are doing. Just saying that the (low-cost) RPI solution, if proper implemented, can be a huge increase in SQ and usability.


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## hgpsemaj

Sounds even better!
  
 Please allow me to say thank you very much for your detailed information. After I read and digested your kind explanation, at least I know I am not committing any crime at all.
  
 Thank you, thank you very much.


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## abartels

hgpsemaj said:


> Sounds even better!
> 
> Please allow me to say thank you very much for your detailed information. After I read and digested your kind explanation, at least I know I am not committing any crime at all.
> 
> Thank you, thank you very much.


 
  
 You're very welcome my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 No, of course you are not committing a crime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Your postings, always with the newest devices and components,are VERY welcome, at least to me, MUCH appreciated!
  
  
 Just thought, when re-reading your first post, now using coax, does it mean you don't use your AK4495SEQ-I2S dac right now?
 Is it still not working? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If I can help, just ask, ok?
  
  
 Cheers man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Alex


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## Mike Nee

Hi All,
 On their main website Audio GD specifies four different USB interfaces:
 a) USB-32
 b) Amanero combo 384
 c) Xmos U8
 d) Xmos U208 (since Nov 2016)
 Is there any consensus regarding the above in the meaning of "best audio" performance?


----------



## motberg

mike nee said:


> Hi All,
> On their main website Audio GD specifies four different USB interfaces:
> a) USB-32
> b) Amanero combo 384
> ...


 

 Hi,
 This is probably not the best thread to check for this info - best to search for threads more specific to the exact model DAC you are interested in...
 That said - iiuc option a and c above are pretty much obsolete if you are looking at a new Audio-GD DAC.
 From everything I have been reading, my guess is the XMOS U208 and Amanero are at generally the same quality level.
 This XMOS U208 is relatively new and well regarded in other implementations such as the Singxer stuff, but engineering around the chip needs to be commensurate to get it to perform at its best.
 The Amanero sound quality is also well regarded and is a more mature device. My perception is that XMOS stuff in general has less compatibility issues than Amanero.
 I suggest to check more Audio-GD DAC threads to see if anyone has compared these 2 (option b and d) side-by-side.. I have been reading a lot about the Audio-GD DAC's and do not recall such a comparison, but you can at least get an overall idea if people are satisfied with their USB input, or found using an external DDC offered a big improvement. 
 I have owned or currently own Audio-GD devices using your option a,b and c above and they were all competent (though lots of past complaints about the option "a" drivers iirc).
 I think the Audio-GD implementation of the Amanero is very good, and if you want something simple to use that would be my first choice (since I have not yet heard the option "d").
 If you are thinking of buying new and for sure want to keep an in-DAC USB input, you may want to consider to check if Audio-GD will give you the option to change your SPDIF BNC input to HDMI i2S, which would give you an optional upgrade path for the future.  I think the new Singularity 19 Neutral Version at 650 USD is a great value.. there is a thread here at HF about it, so if that is the budget range you are looking at, I suggest to read through that thread in detail first and ask those folks any specific questions.


----------



## Mike Nee

Thx for your answer. I've recently stumbled upon an ex-demo unit of Reference 10.32 and I'm currently highly considering it as one of my options. The shop has just emailed me few minutes ago, that there is no possibility of putting XU208 into that unit and I'm waiting for confirmation regarding putting Amanero inside. 
You mentioned Singularity 19 and I was also considering this as an option, choosing between it and Denafrips Ares (which has XU208). However I checked higher models from Denafrips (Venus & Terminator) and they both have Amanero listed in the specs. The price difference between these models has biased me to think that Amanero must be "better" option as it appears in higher specced DACs.


----------



## motberg

mike nee said:


> Thx for your answer. I've recently stumbled upon an ex-demo unit of Reference 10.32 and I'm currently highly considering it as one of my options. The shop has just emailed me few minutes ago, that there is no possibility of putting XU208 into that unit and I'm waiting for confirmation regarding putting Amanero inside.
> You mentioned Singularity 19 and I was also considering this as an option, choosing between it and Denafrips Ares (which has XU208). However I checked higher models from Denafrips (Venus & Terminator) and they both have Amanero listed in the specs. The price difference between these models has biased me to think that Amanero must be "better" option as it appears in higher specced DACs.


 

 I think that Audio-GD also considers their Amanero as "better" than their XU208, but the XU208 if properly implemented (such as an F-1 DDC with good PS) should easily be at the same level but with a different presentation - and sometimes more preferable. I am pretty sure I remember in some of the Master-7 threads (not all the relevant threads are here at HF) that there have been folks upgrading from the stock Amanero to a souped-up F-1 or stock SU-1.
  
 I did prefer the stock Amanero to a stock SU-1 via i2s (for my NFB1 2016), but I am sure my modded PS SU-1 would now be preferable to the stock Amanero.. (of course a modded PS SU-1 can get pretty expensive). A lot of this has to do more with matching with your gear and preferences, rather than one thing being absolutely better than the other.
  
 It would be good to check with Audio-GD if that Reference 10.32 can handle the recent firmware update. I would also check if one of the SPDIF inputs can be modded for i2s input.
  
 Not sure if you saw this:
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Reference10/RE10EN.htm
 I personally liked the Audio-GD USB-32 stuff, to me was a nice organic sound - but I may have been in the minority about that... if you can change to Amanero I also would consider that an upgrade.
  
 The Ares seems like a good value also and from what I have been reading seems they did an unusually great job on the USB input... so I personally would not worry much about that being XMOS if everything else seems to suit your preferences.


----------



## Mike Nee

motberg said:


> It would be good to check with Audio-GD if that Reference 10.32 can handle the recent firmware update. I would also check if one of the SPDIF inputs can be modded for i2s input.
> 
> Not sure if you saw this:
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/Reference10/RE10EN.htm
> ...




Got a reply that this unit is fitted with VIA Vinyl Audio VT1731. Don't know what that's about, but I think I'll skip Reference 10.32 in favour of NFB-1AMP. With regards to DAC, will have to spend some time reading about NOS vs OS.


----------



## abartels

motberg said:


> mike nee said:
> 
> 
> > Thx for your answer. I've recently stumbled upon an ex-demo unit of Reference 10.32 and I'm currently highly considering it as one of my options. The shop has just emailed me few minutes ago, that there is no possibility of putting XU208 into that unit and I'm waiting for confirmation regarding putting Amanero inside.
> ...


 
  
 Hi Tom,
  
 Thanks a lot for jumping into this, you indeed are the absolutelu right guy to comment on this subject!
 You have a lot of experience with many different DDC devices/modules and in my opinion, the recommendations are the right ones!
  
 I agree in all @motberg said! Nothing to add 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Keep up the good work!
 Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

Hello Alex,

Thank you for your latest information.

For your information:

https://world.taobao.com/item/52863...24849311d2edeac9&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.9AUrrV


https://world.taobao.com/item/53154...158&pvid=517e41c1-65db-41d0-b920-361264c7581b


https://world.taobao.com/item/44348...158&pvid=517e41c1-65db-41d0-b920-361264c7581b


Cheers,


Riemann


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## hgpsemaj

Hello Alex,

For your reference:

https://world.taobao.com/item/536302242514.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.0XQuzI#detail


Cheers,


Riemann


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## hgpsemaj

Hello Alex,

I received a reply from Mr. Lu, and he told me the max. voltage is 5.5V.

Thanks for your attention.


Cheers,

Riemann


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## abartels

Hello Riemann,

Thanks for all the info!

This one I saw before and is most interesting. Maybe you can investigate if there are more specs available from this manufacturer, like ESR values. Is there a website available for Qinfen?

https://world.taobao.com/item/53154...158&pvid=517e41c1-65db-41d0-b920-361264c7581b








This one is very good I think but very expensive, very big and very heavy, 4,2Kg !!

https://world.taobao.com/item/52863...24849311d2edeac9&spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.9AUrrV








These are very nice too, 

https://world.taobao.com/item/548992047294.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.SYN1vm#detail





















And these,

https://world.taobao.com/item/523052894620.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.SYN1vm#detail






https://world.taobao.com/item/523031555314.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.SYN1vm#detail






https://world.taobao.com/item/549133465896.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.SYN1vm#detail







Thanks for this link, they are very cheap!!!

https://world.taobao.com/item/536302242514.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.0XQuzI#detail







For Amanero, max is 5.5V, but do you also know minimum voltage?
This is most important because of lowest set voltage for ultracaps to reach longest runtime

Cheers!

Alex


----------



## abartels

Hello Riemann,

I forgot, you use this Amanero?










You told me before it can accept 3.3V to 5V (which is 5.5V max), so this means you can use ultracaps seting
with voltage drop from 5.4V (max of 2x2.7V ultracaps) to 3.3V.

Sad thing is, as the picture shows, it consumes 250mA which is a lot power.
Runtime of ultracaps will be very short. Probably you will have to go for the bigger and more powerfull ultracaps,
at least the 350F Maxwell / Lishen, or the monster ultracaps 3000F from Maxwell, but those are expensive.

Please take a look at these, can you ask supplier which version he sells since there is 3000F / 1200F and 700F in his advertisement.

https://world.taobao.com/item/44672748313.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.FMLmy6#detail






These would be best to use for your application, you need 4 pieces.


Cheers,
Alex


----------



## abartels

Hello Riemann,

I found some real interesting ultracap modules which can be used for powering Discrete output stage.
Would need several in parallel to achieve big buffer, but they are very good and cheap.

https://world.taobao.com/item/540618329466.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.AhFN6K#detail






Cheers,

Alex


----------



## abartels

Hello Riemann,

Got another supplier which is very unclear what he sells. Is it possible he sells Maxwel 2K-3.0V 3000F for RMB98 ?
He says capacity between 650F and 3000F

Can you please contact seller and ask if he has the hole BCAP 3.0V series, en what they cost?

https://world.taobao.com/item/544981505112.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.Z4SDp1#detail

BCAP0650 BCAP1200 BCAP1500 BCAP2000 BCAP3000


Cheers!

Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

Hello Alex,

Re: https://world.taobao.com/item/544981505112.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.Z4SDp1#detail


He said most of them are RMB98 each.

Alex, he couldn't provide the exact value of those caps to me. Sounds a bit dodgy, doesn't it?


Cheers,


Riemannn


----------



## abartels (May 9, 2017)

Hello Riemann,

Yes it is, not sure if it is wise to buy from this seller....

In the meantime, I ordered 8x DA-M1 discrete R2R dacs from AGD, configured in push-pull configuration,
which means 4 da-m1's per channel.......

I will keep you posted on how this will sound in comparisson to AK4495......

Thanks for all your help!

Regards, and C H E E R S  

Alex


----------



## hgpsemaj

The latest version 10.6.2 of Amanero driver for Win 10 is available:

https://amanero.com/drivers.htm


----------



## Il Cuffiotto

hgpsemaj said:


> The latest version 10.6.2 of Amanero driver for Win 10 is available:
> 
> https://amanero.com/drivers.htm


Anyone out there had to flash Audio gd version of Amanero with linux compatible firmware, like last 2006be10? Without that, mu R7HE can't play native dsd sent by Auralic Aries G1...Procedure may be different due to different board layout...


----------



## arjuna93

abartels said:


> Breeze U8 is not an amp but a DDC



How does it compare with Topping btw?


----------



## InstantSilence

What is a few of the best usb dongles that connect my laptop to my dac that would result in a marginal sound quality increase?


----------



## arjuna93

InstantSilence said:


> What is a few of the best usb dongles that connect my laptop to my dac that would result in a marginal sound quality increase?



Aurorasound Bus-Power Pro 2 would not hurt. It leaves the data unchanged, but isolates it completely from computer power noise.


----------



## sajunky

arjuna93 said:


> Aurorasound Bus-Power Pro 2 would not hurt. It leaves the data unchanged, but isolates it completely from computer power noise.


I can't read Japaneese, but is seems to be external power injector, not a galvanic isolator.
When connected to the Amanero module in Audio GD DACs (which do not draw power from the bus) it will do nothing.


----------



## arjuna93

sajunky said:


> I can't read Japaneese, but is seems to be external power injector, not a galvanic isolator.
> When connected to the Amanero module in Audio GD DACs (which do not draw power from the bus) it will do nothing.



Normally USB has noisy power running from computer to wherever you plug the cable in. If your DAC has perfect galvanic isolation, that isn’t an issue.
What BusPower-Pro does is it removes the link with computer power completely, substituting its own clean power instead. Data is passed through as is.

Whether this type of device makes an improvement to Audio GD I cannot say, no experience with Audio GD.


----------



## sajunky

arjuna93 said:


> Normally USB has noisy power running from computer to wherever you plug the cable in. If your DAC has perfect galvanic isolation, that isn’t an issue.
> What BusPower-Pro does is it removes the link with computer power completely, substituting its own clean power instead. Data is passed through as is.


This device only cut PC 5V power wire and injects its own. It doesn't say anything about galvanic isolation, so the noise still comes through the USB ground wire. I hope I made it clear.


----------

