# Litz VS Stranded



## MahthovenWang

Hi guys I have a real noob question here: what is the difference between the Litz structure of a cable and a stranded structure of a cable? Let say that they are made of the same material i.e. Litz Copper cable VS Stranded Copper cable are there any sonic differences? Any help is much appreciated


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## Speedskater

For reasonably sized conductors (and reasonable circuits), in the audio frequency range there are no audible differences.


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## MahthovenWang

speedskater said:


> For reasonably sized conductors (and reasonable circuits), in the audio frequency range there are no audible differences.


 
  
 So do you think the premium price of the litz over the stranded is justified?


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## Speedskater

Does 'no audible differences' justify a 'premium price'  ???


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## MahthovenWang

Ok thanks anyways


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## jerein

I think the main benefit of going for litz cable would be for aesthetic reasons. Litz cables are individually insulated by the strand, hence oxidation will be prevented/reduced dramatically, therefore keeping your cables looking great.


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## Mooses9

jerein said:


> I think the main benefit of going for litz cable would be for aesthetic reasons. Litz cables are individually insulated by the strand, hence oxidation will be prevented/reduced dramatically, therefore keeping your cables looking great.


 
  
 x2 i agree with this comment


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## sonq

speedskater said:


> For reasonably sized conductors (and reasonable circuits), in the audio frequency range there are no audible differences.




What's reasonable circuit? Care to elaborate?


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## goodvibes

Ones that you can't hear differences on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





joke.


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## spook76

Having tried both the stranded and the linz, I also agree that the only reason is purely aesthetic on a headphone or IEM cable.


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## Steve Eddy

spook76 said:


> Having tried both the stranded and the linz, I also agree that the only reason is purely aesthetic on a headphone or IEM cable.




It also lets you get away with porous, textile insulations. But I guess that ultimately goes toward aesthetics as well. And ergonomics.

se


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## sonq

mahthovenwang said:


> Hi guys I have a real noob question here: what is the difference between the Litz structure of a cable and a stranded structure of a cable? Let say that they are made of the same material i.e. Litz Copper cable VS Stranded Copper cable are there any sonic differences? Any help is much appreciated




Litz cable reduces the impact of skin and proximity effect. Go audition the range from Audionote.


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## MahthovenWang

sonq said:


> Litz cable reduces the impact of skin and proximity effect. Go audition the range from Audionote.


 
  
 Is the impact of skin microphonics? And my I know where us Audionote?


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## Speedskater

sonq said:


> What's reasonable circuit? Care to elaborate?


 

 Ones that more than 99% of us have.  Now, zero Ohm impedance ribbon loudspeakers  with 1 inch diameter cable conductors need not apply.


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## yage

mahthovenwang said:


> Hi guys I have a real noob question here: what is the difference between the Litz structure of a cable and a stranded structure of a cable? Let say that they are made of the same material i.e. Litz Copper cable VS Stranded Copper cable are there any sonic differences? Any help is much appreciated


 
  
 By the way, Litz cable is also usually twisted in some sort of fashion in order to reject electromagnetic inteference (EMI). This could potentially be useful for very long runs of cable, such as in a hardwired Ethernet network.


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## Mooses9

yage said:


> By the way, Litz cable is also usually twisted in some sort of fashion in order to reject electromagnetic inteference (EMI). This could potentially be useful for very long runs of cable, such as in a hardwired Ethernet network.


 
 you are right, its a braid like this, depending on the gauge the braid might look slightly different


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## MahthovenWang

yage said:


> By the way, Litz cable is also usually twisted in some sort of fashion in order to reject electromagnetic inteference (EMI). This could potentially be useful for very long runs of cable, such as in a hardwired Ethernet network.


 
 Then is it right to say that litz cables are more immune to electromagnetic interferences caused by, say a cell phone?


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## Mooses9

mahthovenwang said:


> Then is it right to say that litz cables are more immune to electromagnetic interferences caused by, say a cell phone?


 
 i would be interested in seeing some data charts that show the rejection of electromagnetic intergerences by way of ''Braids'' i honestly dont know it even though it might reject magic electromagnetic interference, i cant imagine its that big of a difference. i could be wrong i just wonder if its a measureable differrence.
  
 ALL of my cables ive bought from whiplash,tralucent,headphonelounge,toxic cables, ect ect ect have ALL been litz braided


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## yage

mooses9 said:


> .. i just wonder if its a measureable differrence.


 
  
 It would be measurable, otherwise the technique wouldn't be used in networking and telephone cable.
  
 EDIT: I haven't come across hard numbers either, though you might have luck browsing material related to amateur radio.


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## Steve Eddy

I wouldn't use the term "litz" to describe a braided cable. Such a braid does nothing to ameliorate skin and proximity effect which is the whole raison d'être of litz wire. That's a function of the twisting of the individual wires within the conductors that are used to make up the braid, and the twisting of litz wire does nothing to shield from electromagnetic interference.

For the braid, I have referred to it as "Milloit braid," after Henry Albert Milloit who invented and patented this type of braid for the Perfection Mica Company back in 1960 (see patent no. 2,958,724). It is still made and sold today under their INTER-8 weave trademark. 

As a side note, Ray Kimber of Kimber Kable was able to secure a patent on the exact same braid, which they trademarked as Orthogonal GyroQuadratic. However that patent is unenforceable due to the prior art of the Milloit patent (I was the one who broke the bad news to Ray. I hope his patent attorneys gave him a refund).

In any case, the braid does provide more effective self-shielding compared to a twisted pair or twisted quad. However this is only the case when the braid is used for a single channel (i.e. two leads for positive and two leads for negative in the case of a four lead braid). As is typically the case for a headphone cable, the braid is used to handle two channels, so you lose most of the effectiveness of the self-shielding. But then like loudspeaker cable, you really don't need such shielding.

se


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## sonq

speedskater said:


> Ones that more than 99% of us have.  Now, zero Ohm impedance ribbon loudspeakers  with 1 inch diameter cable conductors need not apply.


 
 meaning you have no clue what you're posting...


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## sonq

mahthovenwang said:


> Is the impact of skin microphonics? And my I know where us Audionote?


 
 Here are some info on different types of litz. http://www.newenglandwire.com/en/products/litz-and-formed-cables/types-and-constructions.aspx
  
 I used to to get them from a shop near escalator at Adephi (3rd or 4th floor) years ago. Perhaps you can google for the local dealer.


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## Speedskater

sonq said:


> meaning you have no clue what you're posting...


 

 So give me a clue as to just where I might be incorrect.


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## Speedskater

mahthovenwang said:


> Then is it right to say that litz cables are more immune to electromagnetic interferences caused by, say a cell phone?


 

 Well twisted or braided multi-conductor cable does provide more effective self-shielding compared to say zip cord.  The 'Litz' part has nothing to do with self-shielding.  But cell-phones operate at extremely high frequencies. This self-shielding works at much lower radio frequencies. (it's more like self-cancellation  than self-shielding).  I don't recall ever seeing anthing about braiding being better than twisting at this shielding.


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## Mooses9

is it me or is this just over contextualizing braids of cables....i mean i know there can be differences. but come on....the majority of cables i have and have seen on here with the diy cable thread everyone is using the litz braid.
  
 its not even used as a ploy for cable makers to pull you in....''sick of your stock cable getting that electromagnetic interference use our litz braid that helps deflect electromagnetic waves and interference'' 
  
 i mean come on. i would have to see hard data showing a cable reflecting electromagnetic waves or interference in a in ear monitor/ full size headphone cable..
  
  
 otherwise come on just rock the cable and be done. get the litz braid pretty much everyone is doing it and forget it.
  
 too much complex talk of a imo not so complex situation


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## Steve Eddy

Not to be too nit-picky, but can we just call it "braid" and not "litz braid"? The headphone community is already misusing terms that have had well understood meanings for nearly a century (such as calling bridged amplifiers "balanced"). Don't need to add more to it.
  
 se


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## Mooses9

steve eddy said:


> Not to be too nit-picky, but can we just call it "braid" and not "litz braid"? The headphone community is already misusing terms that have had well understood meanings for nearly a century (such as calling bridged amplifiers "balanced"). Don't need to add more to it.
> 
> se


 
 i agree.


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