# Woo Audio WA7TP (tube power supply) Impressions Thread



## warrenpchi

Since it's about to  be launched, I thought I'd get an impressions thread started.  If you've heard the WA7TP - and especially if you've been able to A/B it vs the stock PSU - please post your impressions here.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'll prime the pump with some early impressions about the prototype I heard way back at CanJam 2013:
  
_*W. Chi:  *The WA7's basic signature remained largely unchanged in terms of frequency response. However I was able to enjoy a very pleasant improvement in transparency, soundstage and separation with the new PSU. And while I can't recall my personal WA7 ever sounding congested, it was very clear that the new PSU revealed a new level of detail, depth and dynamics. I was impressed enough that I reserved the first production unit off the line._


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## zniper2984

I didnt expect there is still room for improvement to an already awsome
Eh+wa7.im gettin my hands on it..any news when they will release it?


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## warrenpchi

zniper2984 said:


> I didnt expect there is still room for improvement to an already awsome
> Eh+wa7.im gettin my hands on it..any news when they will release it?


 
  
 Not exactly sure, but I'm pretty sure it will officially be available within the next few weeks.  From my perspective, it's already been way too long a wait.


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## olegausany

zniper2984 said:


> I didnt expect there is still room for improvement to an already awsome
> Eh+wa7.im gettin my hands on it..any news when they will release it?



Yes it's an improvement especially when you roll the tubes


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## zniper2984

I don





olegausany said:


> Yes it's an improvement especially when you roll the tubes


i dont have much experience on tube rolling i will try it sometime.can i ask your suggestion on tubes thats i should consider looking on.


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## JoelT

warrenpchi said:


> From my perspective, it's already been way too long a wait.


 
 Indeed. It's almost like they have other products and projects to work on (curse those WA234 monoblocks that mere mortals, such as myself, are not worthy to touch!).


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## warrenpchi

joelt said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > From my perspective, it's already been way too long a wait.
> ...


 
  
 Hehe, actually the WA234 was already done by the time I heard the PSU prototype... so that's no excuse!


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## JoelT

Blast! But weren't they still working on the special _website? _(_trying_ to cut them some slack here...not working) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Anyhow...back to the WA7tp.


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## warrenpchi

joelt said:


> Blast! But weren't they still working on the special _website? _(_trying_ to cut them some slack here...not working)


 
  
 I like the website, it's nice.  It doesn't make my WA7 sound better, but nice nonetheless.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


joelt said:


> Anyhow...back to the WA7tp.


 
  
 Yes!  T-minus 4 days...


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## zniper2984

warrenpchi said:


> I like the website, it's nice.  It doesn't make my WA7 sound better, but nice nonetheless.
> 
> 
> Yes!  T-minus 4 days...


I hope their stock is enough for all of us..


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## olegausany

zniper2984 said:


> I don
> 
> 
> 
> ...



PSU uses 12AUs so any direct replacement should work , 5814A i know work for sure because i had a chance to try Jan Sylvania ones and they improved bass depth and extension


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## zniper2984

olegausany said:


> PSU uses 12AUs so any direct replacement should work , 5814A i know work for sure because i had a chance to try Jan Sylvania ones and they improved bass depth and extension


wow!il check on those jan sylvania.thanks.


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## zniper2984

But first i need to get my hands on those psu.


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## warrenpchi

Looks like today's the day...
  


hifiguy528 said:


> We are getting the details finalized and will have full pricing and availability on 4/21.


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## warrenpchi

Here we go!
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/715526/woo-audio-new-wa7tp-tube-psu-early-bird-offer
  
 Got mine!


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## HiFiGuy528

Thank you Warren for starting this thread.  
  
 We are working hard to get as many WA7tp out to the community as possible.


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## Maxx134

olegausany said:


> PSU uses 12AUs so any direct replacement should work , 5814A i know work for sure because i had a chance to try Jan Sylvania ones and they improved bass depth and extension



I am a witness to this...tube rolling. .

With the oppo pm-1 on hand, 
The difference of tube roll was not small or just different. .

I have to say it was jaw - dropping(!)
I had a hard time believing that rolling tubes or even using them at all in a PSU could make a difference, 
But it made the woo sound like an ultimate amp. 
Dynamics with such low end oomph! 
Monstrous is a good analogy. 
Made me wish the PSU came with those tubes.

But how the heck did member "olegausany" know? (!)

Edit:
And how the heck did the woo guys know to use tubes?!


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## warrenpchi

maxx134 said:


> But how the heck did member "olegausany" know? (!)


 
  
 Wasn't he at the NY meet?


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## Maxx134

warrenpchi said:


> Wasn't he at the NY meet?



Yes it happened there but he seemed sure before hand it would be better with his tubes.


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## olegausany

maxx134 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Wasn't he at the NY meet?
> ...



I had no idea how tube rolling will affect the since it's power supply not amp itself. The only other reason i brought those cause they were matched pair while others i have are single tube


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## Schopenhauer

Are the specs for the WA7tp available anywhere? I checked the Woo Audio website, but didn't see anything.


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## olegausany

Which specs are you looking for? This is power supply not the amp


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## Schopenhauer

olegausany said:


> Which specs are you looking for? This is power supply not the amp


 
 Fair enough. Perhaps I'm a n00b.


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## olegausany

For your information this amp uses 12AU7 tubes so this what is important since tube rolling is possible and will make difference in sound since tubes act as rectifier. You will need buy them in matched pairs


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## Schopenhauer

olegausany said:


> For your information this amp uses 12AU7 tubes so this what is important since tube rolling is possible and will make difference in sound since tubes act as rectifier. You will need buy them in matched pairs


 
 Excellent. Good to know. Here's a rough sketch of the intuitions driving my last question. Suppose -- and this seems to be the case -- that the general consensus is that the WA6-SE>WA6. And this registers as, in part, a difference in their specs (e.g. frequency response). Now, suppose again -- and I'm not sure if this is the case -- that the WA7>WA6. Then, it would stand to reason (by analogy) that the WA7tp>WA6-SE. Essentially, what I want to know is -- and what, perhaps, people don't yet know -- how the WA6-SE and the WA7tp stack against each other. I currently own the plain ol' WA6 with the (Sophia Princess and 6GL7 upgrades) and am looking to transition to the next level.


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## Schopenhauer

schopenhauer said:


> Excellent. Good to know. Here's a rough sketch of the intuitions driving my last question. Suppose -- and this seems to be the case -- that the general consensus is that the WA6-SE>WA6. And this registers as, in part, a difference in their specs (e.g. frequency response). Now, suppose again -- and I'm not sure if this is the case -- that the WA7>WA6. Then, it would stand to reason (by analogy) that the WA7tp>WA6-SE. Essentially, what I want to know is -- and what, perhaps, people don't yet know -- how the WA6-SE and the WA7tp stack against each other. I currently own the plain ol' WA6 with the (Sophia Princess and 6GL7 upgrades) and am looking to transition to the next level.


 
 I should also note, although it may speak for itself, that I can use the Sophia Princess and 6GL7s on the WA6-SE. So essentially I would already have an upgraded version of the WA6-SE, if I purchased it, whereas I wouldn't have an upgraded WA7tp upon purchase. But I can see I'm beginning to think out type.


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## olegausany

Once again WA7tp is power supply which replaces stock power supply included with amp. If you own WA6 you don't need WA7tp. Your way of upgrade should be WA5 or WA2 or WA22. I only heard WA6SE only once at the meet so can't comment it's worth to upgrade to it from WA6

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


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## pervysage

How do the power switches work?
  
 Is it now 2 power switches that you have to switch on?


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## smellyfungus

pervysage said:


> How do the power switches work?
> 
> Is it now 2 power switches that you have to switch on?




I asked on the preorder thread but it wasn't confirmed yet if you can just leave the wa7 and power only by the wa7tp. the power button for the tp is the volume knob look a like which you push in.

I'm sure someone can answer soon since some preorders are on the way.


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## Bevo

It's not hard to flick a switch lol.


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## Schopenhauer

olegausany said:


> Once again WA7tp is power supply which replaces stock power supply included with amp. If you own WA6 you don't need WA7tp. Your way of upgrade should be WA5 or WA2 or WA22. I only heard WA6SE only once at the meet so can't comment it's worth to upgrade to it from WA6
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


 
 All of this is good to know. Thank you. I will look into the WA2 and the WA22. The WA5 is, I think, a bit out of my price range.


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## warrenpchi

WA7tp in da house!


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## Maxx134

warrenpchi said:


> WA7tp in da house!


 
Nice..


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## audiophile_007

Ordered the wa7tp and I ordered a pair of ECC802s gold pin tubes from eurotubes.com. These are long plated ones so they should have a fat, thick tone.
 Can't wait to try them out when my wa7tp arrives!


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## teamrushpntball

So rather subjective question but I've been eyeing an upgrade from my Bifrost/Lyr and have been looking at some of the Woo amps.  For ~ $1400 is the WA7 + WA7tp going to be the better amp than a WA6SE or WA2 if I continued to use my Bifrost?  Currently running some AKG k712's with my eyes on the HE560 sometime soon, or maybe LCD 2's.  
  
 Namely I'm wondering if the WA7 amp is as good as the WA6SE/ WA2 if I disregard the DAC portion?


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## Maxx134

audiophile_007 said:


> Ordered the wa7tp and I ordered a pair of ECC802s gold pin tubes from eurotubes.com. These are long plated ones so they should have a fat, thick tone.
> Can't wait to try them out when my wa7tp arrives!



Very nice I will also post impressions once I receive mine,
 as I attained the Sylvania 5814A 12AUs matched pair to swap once I get it.
These were the tubes that gave more bottom oomph when I listened at the NYmeet..


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## Maxx134

teamrushpntball said:


> ...I'm wondering if the WA7 amp is as good as the WA6SE/ WA2 if I disregard the DAC portion?


 interesting I wonder as well.


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## warrenpchi

maxx134 said:


> teamrushpntball said:
> 
> 
> > ...I'm wondering if the WA7 amp is as good as the WA6SE/ WA2 if I disregard the DAC portion?
> ...


 
  
 Wish I could help but I haven't heard either.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll bet Frank I. knows.


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## audiophile_007

> Very nice I will also post impressions once I receive mine,
> as I attained the Sylvania 5814A 12AUs matched pair to swap once I get it.
> These were the tubes that gave more bottom oomph when I listened at the NYmeet..


 
 you mean these tubes?
  
 http://www.ebay.nl/itm/1959-Sylvania-12AU7-GOLD-GRADE-DG-Tubes-Matched-Pair-ECC82-6189-5814A-CONN-/161275434912?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258cc3d7a0&_uhb=1
  
 wanna get a set for myself aswell.


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## Maxx134

schopenhauer said:


> Are the specs for the WA7tp available anywhere? I checked the Woo Audio website, but didn't see anything.



I would like to see what differences besides the tubes are there and what is going on...

It is giving more power or current or higher voltage swings or maybe the tubes are doubling as a filter or storage with their hot cathodes spilling those electrons in the tube vacuum? 

Or maybe there is some kind of right/left channel separation? How is this supply designed? 
What's inside that Lil box! 
Fairy dust? Lol


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## Maxx134

audiophile_007 said:


> you mean these tubes?
> 
> http://www.ebay.nl/itm/1959-Sylvania-12AU7-GOLD-GRADE-DG-Tubes-Matched-Pair-ECC82-6189-5814A-CONN-/161275434912?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258cc3d7a0&_uhb=1
> 
> wanna get a set for myself aswell.


they certainly look like the type but I don't see the Sylvania name on them at all to they must be some equivalent type tube..

Edit: Look!


Not the donuts, the tube..


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## Dogmatrix

audiophile_007 said:


> you mean these tubes?
> 
> http://www.ebay.nl/itm/1959-Sylvania-12AU7-GOLD-GRADE-DG-Tubes-Matched-Pair-ECC82-6189-5814A-CONN-/161275434912?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258cc3d7a0&_uhb=1
> 
> wanna get a set for myself aswell.


 

 These are rebranded 12au7 tubes , the tubes being discussed are specifically 5814a which has a slightly different spec to 12au7


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## Maxx134

I have a question. .
The woo wa7 is rated a max of 1W @ 32ohms. .
So what differences would I encounter with the WA7TP installed? 

Will we see specs and/or internals of this unit?

I know for sure there will be sonic advantages as I have herd it,
But just wondering on the technical aspects of this unit..


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## JoelT

maxx134 said:


> I have a question. .
> The woo wa7 is rated a max of 1W @ 32ohms. .
> So what differences would I encounter with the WA7TP installed?
> 
> Will we see specs and/or internals of this unit?


 
 +1
  
 Interested in this as well.


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## Bevo

"Hey guys we've got a new product for $400. It's very nice. Buy it cos its better"


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## JoelT

bevo said:


> "Hey guys we've got a new product for $400. It's very nice. Buy it cos its better"




"Better" works for me.


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## Bevo

joelt said:


> "Better" works for me.



 


Well i bought it anyways to see how much "better" it could really be. Would just be nice to give consumers a bit more info on the product before actually releasing it.


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## warrenpchi

pervysage said:


> How do the power switches work?
> 
> Is it now 2 power switches that you have to switch on?


 
  
 No.  There are two power switches - one on the power supply and one on the amp - but the switch on the power supply functions as a master.  So from now on, we don't have to reach behind the amp to turn it on.  That switch can be left in the on position permanently.
  
 BTW, when you set up and plug in the WA7tp, don't be surprised if it doesn't seem to turn on.  Only when the WA7 is plugged-in with it's own switch turned-on does the power supply come on.
  
 EDIT:  Just as a reminder, make sure you set the correct voltage on the underside of the WA7tp.


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## smellyfungus

thanks for the tips. anyone else get theirs yet?


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## JoelT

smellyfungus said:


> anyone else get theirs yet?


 
 Just an email stating that I'll be getting _another _email in a week or so when it ships. Pretty stoked.


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## warrenpchi

joelt said:


> Just an email stating that I'll be getting _another _email in a week or so when it ships. Pretty stoked.


 
  
 Lol.  Well then this will really float your boat... @morserotonin and I are going to be doing an initial impressions write-up tonight for Audio360.org.  It'll go live tomorrow, and I'll be re-posting it here.  So I guess I'm posting to tell you that I'll be making _another_ post tomorrow.


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## JoelT

Warren: You are the man.


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## warrenpchi

joelt said:


> Warren: You are the man.


 
  
 I wish... and the proof of how lacking I am is:  I can't get the write-up to show up here with all the proper formatting.  Weird.  I hate that I have to link out, but you guys can check it out at http://www.audio360.org/amps-dacs_a0027_early-impressions_woo-audio-wa7tp.php


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## Maxx134

In that impression link, they spoke of clarity. 
I didn't know this.

Sooo that means it will be even more of an upgrade for me than I thought,
Because I never compared to older PSU.

I only compared a tube roll..that's it.
The same wa7tp with just one other tube set,
and there was clearly a percieved improved bass impact and weight(!)
Yet switching back on stock tubes I just felt same clarity with less authority..
So this will be more interesting than I thought. 

At the headfi meet, I felt that with the tube roll it attained a majestic level of sound comparable to the best stuff I herd that day. 
I realize that sounds like a little hype,
But that's how it was to me.


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## warrenpchi

The WA7tp makes a WAY bigger difference than the EH gold pins ever did.  I am VERY MUCH enjoying my rig now.


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## JoelT

Thanks for the early impressions, Warren. Much appreciated. One quick question: You touched on soundstage briefly, and you both clearly felt that it was increased. Was the improvement fairly significant, or was it more of a slight bump up in terms of width, depth, etc?


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## warrenpchi

maxx134 said:


> At the headfi meet, I felt that with the tube roll it attained a majestic level of sound comparable to the best stuff I herd that day.


 
  
 Are you saying that you tube rolled the WA7tp and got it sounding much better than stock?  If so, which tubes?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


joelt said:


> Thanks for the early impressions, Warren. Much appreciated. One quick question: You touched on soundstage briefly, and you both clearly felt that it was increased. Was the improvement fairly significant, or was it more of a slight bump up in terms of width, depth, etc?


 
  
 You're welcome Joel  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know everyone here's been wondering, and I was curious myself, so Kevin and I wanted to get our impressions out there a.s.a.p.
  
 I would definitely say it was significant, yes.  If I had to quantify what I heard, I'd say there was a 40% increase in width and a 60% increase in depth.  So, on one hand, it is definitely significant in terms of it being readily audible... but not like OMG the staging was a kajillion times bigger.
  
 That said (and this is the part that mattered most to me), the expansion in both width and depth seemed to pull instruments apart.  The resulting improvement in separation was not trivial.  In other words, it wasn't just the room that got bigger, but the spacing between people and instruments as well.


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## olegausany

@warrenpchi the tubes were Jan Sylvania 5814A and they improved bass depth

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


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## HiFiGuy528

I've got a few of these in a dresser drawer.  Now I just need a WA7tp to use them on.


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## warrenpchi

olegausany said:


> @warrenpchi the tubes were Jan Sylvania 5814A and they improved bass depth
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


 
  
 Thanks Oleg!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Coincidentally, if there was one single thing I would want to improve on, it would be low end extension.
  


hifiguy528 said:


> I've got a few of these in a dresser drawer.  Now I just need a WA7tp to use them on.


 
  
 You ain't getting mine!


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## olegausany

hifiguy528 said:


> I've got a few of these in a dresser drawer.  Now I just need a WA7tp to use them on.



But are they 12AU7 replacements? E80CC definitely are


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## Maxx134

I just realized something. 
If this new PSU improves the amp. ..
What about the on board dac?
Surely it would benefit from better power ?
I myself found it a but harsh or edgy..
Maybe now it's character would change? (!)


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## pragu

maxx134 said:


> I just realized something.
> If this new PSU improves the amp. ..
> What about the on board dac?
> Surely it would benefit from better power ?
> ...


 
 Perhaps it would benefit from better power, but the power comes through the USB, not the power supply! That way when you want to use dac only, the amp doesn't need to be turned on. Although, because you can't use the WA7d without turning it on (optical audio doesn't carry power), it may improve that!


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## Bevo

warrenpchi said:


> I wish... and the proof of how lacking I am is:  I can't get the write-up to show up here with all the proper formatting.  Weird.  I hate that I have to link out, but you guys can check it out at http://www.audio360.org/amps-dacs_a0027_early-impressions_woo-audio-wa7tp.php


 

 Thanks for your impressions Warren. Grateful you could help some of the community out in not buying this product completely blind


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## warrenpchi

pragu said:


> Although, because you can't use the WA7d without turning it on (optical audio doesn't carry power), it may improve that!


 
  
 Yes, this.  I think.  Lemme see what happens when I try to use the WA7d as a USB DAC - just to be sure.
  


bevo said:


> Thanks for your impressions Warren. Grateful you could help some of the community out in not buying this product completely blind


 
  
 Only too happy to help.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In some cases, one might not need to buy the WA7tp at all.  To anyone that is totally happy with their WA7 as-is, I would say don't be a fool - just leave well enough alone.  If you have no issues with staging, separation or warmth, why fix what ain't broke?
  
 In my case, I became acutely aware of what my WA7 _could be_ back when I first heard the prototype PSU.  For me, it was a sure thing at first audition.  But again, that's just me.  I'm a closet detailhead, so the staging/separation totally appealed to me.
  
 I can hardly wait to see what all the other early birds think of it.  I think the collective impressions of us first-batchers are all that people have to go on for quite some time.


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## Maxx134

warrenpchi said:


> In some cases, one might not need to buy the WA7tp at all.  To anyone that is totally happy with their WA7 as-is, I would say don't be a fool - just leave well enough alone.  ...



Haha, "totally happy" only exists in the "honeymoon stage" of any gear.

No way does that sound remotely convincing ha

If there is an improvement to be had, we must have it! Lol


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## warrenpchi

maxx134 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > In some cases, one might not need to buy the WA7tp at all.  To anyone that is totally happy with their WA7 as-is, I would say don't be a fool - just leave well enough alone.  ...
> ...


 
  
 Lol, don't say I didn't try to reach for a modicum of practicality... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My personal view is that the WA7 is simply incomplete without EH gold pins and a WA7tp.  As such, I consider it a $1,500 amp, and recommend that configuration at the very minimum.  But oh, what a fantastic $1,500 amp it is!


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## groovyd

could it be that the stock tubes are the best for the job?  haha, that would be too easy right?  looking forward to how this saga progresses... should be receiving mine this week.


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## Dogmatrix

The whole tube rolling thing can be a bit of a money trap, you can easily end up with a drawer full of tubes you will never use
 I speak from experience in that regard
 It is fun though and the perfect tube just might be the next one you try


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## EdmontonCanuck

warrenpchi said:


> My personal view is that the WA7 is simply incomplete without EH gold pins and a WA7tp.  As such, I consider it a $1,500 amp, and recommend that configuration at the very minimum.  But oh, what a fantastic $1,500 amp it is!






 



So, Warren....would you say that the WA7/WA7tp combo could be considered reference?


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## warrenpchi

groovyd said:


> could it be that the stock tubes are the best for the job?  haha, that would be too easy right?


 
  
 Based on what oleg said, no.  Seems like the Jan Sylvanias he mentioned are a step up.
  
 Then again, the fact that Jack doesn't have any tube upgrades posted for the WA7tp is very telling as well.
  
 Too tough to say... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


groovyd said:


> should be receiving mine this week.


 
  
 Let us know what you think!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


dogmatrix said:


> the perfect tube just might be the next one you try


 
  
 It's a trap!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


edmontoncanuck said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > My personal view is that the WA7 is simply incomplete without EH gold pins and a WA7tp.  As such, I consider it a $1,500 amp, and recommend that configuration at the very minimum.  But oh, what a fantastic $1,500 amp it is!
> ...


 
  
 No, and yes.
  
 There are probably only a handful of rigs that I would consider truly reference at the moment... a few shining examples of just how good things can get for a particular signature, flavor or presentation.  In that light, I would not say that the WA7+WA7tp combo is an absolute reference.
  
 On the other hand, I do think that the WA7+WA7tp is a fantastic benchmark for tube amps (or DAC/amp combos) within this price bracket.  So in a relative sense, yes, I would say that it is a reference for what can be had/expected for the price.  I'm enjoying my rig tremendously right now, and would put it up against any DAC+tube amp rig for the same amount of money.


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## HiFiGuy528

There are many options on 12AU7 tube.  We are currently testing which brand would be best for us to offer as an upgrade path.  Stay tuned.


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## Maxx134

hifiguy528 said:


> ...We are currently testing which brand would be best for us to offer as an upgrade path.  Stay tuned.



Ooo great!
Take the legwork out of the endless possible tube rolling.


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## JoelT

maxx134 said:


> Ooo great!
> Take the legwork out of the endless possible tube rolling.


 
 Agreed. Excellent news.


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## Dogmatrix

I think " best for us " would also include commercial considerations like availability and consistency , so while I am sure the " upgrade tube " will be a good one the rolling is still very much on .
 My bet would be Genelex Gold Lion .


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## warrenpchi

hifiguy528 said:


> There are many options on 12AU7 tube.  We are currently testing which brand would be best for us to offer as an upgrade path.  Stay tuned.


 
  
Test this!


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## warrenpchi

warrenpchi said:


> pragu said:
> 
> 
> > Although, because you can't use the WA7d without turning it on (optical audio doesn't carry power), it may improve that!
> ...


 
  
 Lol, I just remembered that this is not possible.


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## smellyfungus

dogmatrix said:


> I think " best for us " would also include commercial considerations like availability and consistency , so while I am sure the " upgrade tube " will be a good one the rolling is still very much on .
> My bet would be Genelex Gold Lion .




my guess too since they've been using new production tubes for the wa7. I looked for impressions on those but many have overlooked them since they're not NOS.


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## CongeeBear

What I'm REALLY curious about is how long is that power cable that connects the WA7tp to the WA7? Haven't seen a single photo of what that looks like...


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## warrenpchi

It's the same one that currently connects the WA7p (solid state power supply) to the WA7... about 4 ft long if I remember correctly?


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## groovyd

They need to ship these with a 1' cable to be honest.  We all care about sound quality more then putting 2 units that look like they belong right next to each other 4' apart.


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## JoelT

Agreed. I'd pay for a shorter cable personally.


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## Maxx134

I would assume that the most blurry slowest bassy "sounding" tubes may be the best!
Why? Because I would assume they would be the one to pass off the most current in my mind.
Just a speculation though. .
:


----------



## groovyd

joelt said:


> Agreed. I'd pay for a shorter cable personally.


 
  
 Just got an email from Woo saying they were working on a 1' cable which they should have ready in 2 weeks to order.  No cable is included.  Would be nice for us early adopters to throw in the 1' cable.


----------



## CongeeBear

Yeah, there really should be an option for the early adopters to get a 1' cable instead, especially since most people haven't received their TP's yet. The long power cable made sense before, since we were trying to create some distance between the SS power supply and the actual amp (and preserve the WA7's minimalistic good looks) -- now that we want to show off the PS too (like in the promo pics), that short cable will be essential!
  
 edit: Was a price given for the 1' cable?


----------



## groovyd

no price was given but in my opinion I would at the very least like this to be delivered alongside my 2 tp orders so that I can immediately start using it properly and to avoid the additional shipping and packaging etc.  Cut a cavity in the foam next to the WA7tp and throw in the 1' cable for us early birds Mr Woo please.  Charge me for it if you want but include it in the box please so my out of box experience is a good one.


----------



## JoelT

Thanks for the info groovyd. 
  
 My WA7tp already shipped, so I'll be using the stock cable until the 1' cable is offered. Would have it been nice to have immediately? Sure, but I'm not going to complain given this was an early adopter offer.


----------



## groovyd

price for the 1' cable is $40 if shipped together with the WA7tp, not sure if this is the same price if ordered separately.  One of my tp is on the way so guess I will be in the same boat.


----------



## groovyd

should be plenty of reviews soon... assuming at least a few have already received theirs...


----------



## warrenpchi

Soooo looking forward to all of your impressions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Kevin and I have like no one to talk to about this.


----------



## JoelT

Mine is scheduled to come in Friday. Short of some unforeseen problem, I suspect it's going to be a very good weekend!


----------



## groovyd

redirected to hold at fed-ex center so i don't get the 'we'll try again tomorrow' typical fed-ex run-around.


----------



## warrenpchi

The suspense =


----------



## smellyfungus

just waiting for this to turn into a full on tube rolling thread. my wallet will cry.


----------



## groovyd

'delivery exception' is what they call it when you told them to leave it at a fed ex office for pickup and they add an extra day to the delivery date to get it there, 1 mile down the road from my house. hopefully get it before they return to sender.


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

Hmmm....I ordered mine by emailing Jack directly before the early bird option was announced but still haven't received any shipment tracking email from them. Hope mine didn't get lost in the shuffle somehow. Perhaps they are fulfilling all the USA orders first before shipping across the border to Canada? Hope this is the case LOL....I'm very excited to receive mine and am even more anxious now that I know others are receiving theirs.


----------



## Maxx134

smellyfungus said:


> just waiting for this to turn into a full on tube rolling thread. my wallet will cry.



All we have to do is for everyone to get one different tube set and compare to stock..

Then the thread starter can post a list..
of which tube, and sonic comparison to the stock tube.

It won't be perfect, but it will be a good approximate observation..

And I know units where shipping before mine so it is going along as ready, not in one bulk load to everyone at same time


----------



## smellyfungus

let's see if you can recreate that magic with your Sylvania tube.

also wanted to thank warrenpchi for that audio360 article. I liked most of the songs used in those impressions. brings out the best (or worst) out of my system


----------



## Maxx134

INITIAL IMPRESSIONS..

This new unit takes longer to shut down than stock power supply, 

Anyway the sound opened up compared to original solid state PSU..
Rather clearly, and frankly, I am quite surprised of the increase in depth, width, separation and clarity. 

I am now very very satisfied with the woo as, compared to before it was clean and nice,
But now it definitetly does sound at a higher level, 
And that, there can be no doubt..

But my mind is set to be tuned in to these differences so I would say in a general sense, 
We are talking easily about a 5-6db increase in perception of improvement over stock PSU.
And that is with the supplied tube.

The stock tube seems to take longer to reach the temperature level of my upgrade tubes, and not sure but I believe my Sylvania tubes get hotter, but need more testing as all this is preliminary impressions and I just switched back to stock tubes..

Definitely worth the upgrade.
Almost shocking improvement but remember my mind is magnified now.. Lkl


----------



## pragu

maxx134 said:


> INITIAL IMPRESSIONS..


 
  
 The real question needs to be answered - does pressing that big power button feel as good as turning the big knob?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We just finished the product sheet for WA7d and WA7tp.  We like to know what you think.


----------



## groovyd

still don't see any hard electrical characteristics or specs between the 2 power supplies.  also if you get the WA7tp option power supply does it also come with the solid state plus long DC cable?  As oppsed to if you get the tp I assume it comes with only the short cable and not the long cable or the solid state supply?


----------



## warrenpchi

smellyfungus said:


> just waiting for this to turn into a full on tube rolling thread. my wallet will cry.


 
  
 It's totally unavoidable at this point.  But hey, you've been here for a year and a half, you should be used to it!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  For me, the tube rolling madness is even more magnified as I've got a Cavalli Liquid Glass in here as well... and wouldn't you know it, Cavalli sent along like a bazillion tubes to try.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


maxx134 said:


> All we have to do is for everyone to get one different tube set and compare to stock..
> 
> Then the thread starter can post a list..
> of which tube, and sonic comparison to the stock tube.
> ...


 
  
 Hey, that's actually a good idea, I'd be happy to do that.  And over time, as more and more people try a given tube, we can update the "consensus" impressions summarized in the first post... not to mention build up some comparative impressions that don't rely in having the stock tubes be the only reference.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Would also be appreciative if Woo posted impressions of tubes they've tried as well.  That should help speed things along.
  


smellyfungus said:


> also wanted to thank warrenpchi for that audio360 article. I liked most of the songs used in those impressions. brings out the best (or worst) out of my system


 
  
 Thanks smellyfungus, glad we could help with that!  It was actually a lot of fun for me because of how long I've personally been waiting for this thing.  I walked away from CanJam last year being truly impressed with only a half dozen items, and this was one of them.
  
 I actually just found a track in my collection that sounds bloody fantastic with the WA7/WA7tp...
  

  
 The SQ of the YT vid above sucks of course... but just a preview of what the song is like.
  


maxx134 said:


> INITIAL IMPRESSIONS..


 
  
 Ooh, here we go!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


maxx134 said:


> This new unit takes longer to shut down than stock power supply,
> 
> Anyway the sound opened up compared to original solid state PSU..
> Rather clearly, and frankly, I am quite surprised of the increase in depth, width, separation and clarity.
> ...


 
  
 Yup, that sounds like what we heard pretty much across the board.  I don't want it to sound like hyperbole, but I particularly agree with that part about "a higher level."  Thinking about it, it's quite a bargain as it basically gives me a much better amp, without having to lay down the full amount of money for a much better amp.
  
 I also noticed that the tubes take a while to sound their best.  For me, the first 10-15 minutes of the stock TP tubes are pretty much a no-go right now... so no quick listens.
  


pragu said:


> The real question needs to be answered - does pressing that big power button feel as good as turning the big knob?


 
  
 No.  Let's hope knobfeel doesn't review it.
  


hifiguy528 said:


> We just finished the product sheet for WA7d and WA7tp.  We like to know what you think.


 
  
 This is for online distribution and not on paper right?
  


groovyd said:


> still don't see any hard electrical characteristics or specs between the 2 power supplies.


 
  
 I wish I could help here, but my unit didn't come with any documentation.  Even though this will be my personal unit, it also originated as a review and photography unit.  I'm pretty sure Leesure had this one before me for photos... so the one shown in the product sheet above is my actual unit.


----------



## olegausany

You always should let tubes to warm up for 10-15 minutes so that they can reach optimal operating temperature


----------



## warrenpchi

Right, which is no problem in most cases here.  I usually power up and do whatever other tasks I need to do for about 20 minutes or so..  The thing is, before the WA7tp, I could sometimes start listening right away without too much in the way of undesirability SQ-wise.  But with the WA7tp in the mix, it just really doesn't sound right during the warm-up period.


----------



## olegausany

Before you had no tubes which deal with power 

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


----------



## warrenpchi

olegausany said:


> Before you had no tubes which deal with power


 
  
 True that.


----------



## Maxx134

olegausany said:


> Before you had no tubes which deal with power
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk



OK I had to be sure before I post, so today I did so let the units idle for a good time and came back to them to listen..

So now I am certain that with the stock "electro-harmonix" tubes, the unit does not get as hot, as with my Sylvania tubes..

The wa7 simply does not sound the same after this upgrade with either tube set.
It sounds so involving now, instead of mainly "presenting" the music clear and clean to you..
You are more sucked into music on all aspects. 
Normal music becomes more alive and enjoyable.
Once you have this "openness", there is no going back to stock power supply..


----------



## groovyd

WA7tp sounds great, as they said more open and better instrument and stereo separation only I have a couple problems...
  
 - The finish on the silver model is a different shiney-ness and texture as to my WA7 so it doesn't really look right next to it. The WA7tp is significantly shinier more metallic with the WA7 being whiter and duller.
  
 - The WA7 does not stand straight up or match the WA7tp in height.  I never onticed this until now but I think the rubber feet of my WA7 are of a different make then the WA7tp again making it not look right together.  The WA7 actually stands slightly crooked and lower then the WA7tp especially in one corner more then the others.  Not sure if I got a bad set of feet originally?
  
 Sound is great though but it does take time to warm up.


----------



## groovyd

maxx134 said:


> OK I had to be sure before I post, so today I did so let the units idle for a good time and came back to them to listen..
> 
> So now I am certain that with the stock "electro-harmonix" tubes, the unit does not get as hot, as with my Sylvania tubes..
> 
> ...


 
 +1 - it is more lively. def cannot go back to the solid state psu...
  
 Listening to One Headlight by The Wallflowers at Low-Z volume at 1pm, McIntosh D100 as DAC into my LCD-X is just incredible.  Snare snaps like a real snare to the point I could nearly see the stick slapping down on it, maybe even telling you what model drumstick and snare and the type of wood the shell is made of.  Guitar has hair on it's balls.


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> - The finish on the silver model is a different shiney-ness and texture as to my WA7 so it doesn't really look right next to it. The WA7tp is significantly shinier more metallic with the WA7 being whiter and duller.
> 
> - The WA7 does not stand straight up or match the WA7tp in height.  I never onticed this until now but I think the rubber feet of my WA7 are of a different make then the WA7tp again making it not look right together.  The WA7 actually stands slightly crooked and lower then the WA7tp especially in one corner more then the others.  Not sure if I got a bad set of feet originally?


 
  
 Pity. The black WA7tp I have (and am listening to right now), looks identical to my WA7; same height, same finish. I purchased the WA7 earlier this year though, so perhaps there has been a material change within the WA7's production life as well?
  
 Agreed regarding everyone's early impressions, this really opened up the sound presentation in a very natural and organic way. Beautiful. I'm going to swap the tubes later tonight for kicks.


----------



## olegausany

joelt said:


> groovyd said:
> 
> 
> > - The finish on the silver model is a different shiney-ness and texture as to my WA7 so it doesn't really look right next to it. The WA7tp is significantly shinier more metallic with the WA7 being whiter and duller.
> ...



Which tubes you have?


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

Have all you early-bird'ers that ordered your WA7tp received your shipment tracking emails? I know for a fact that I ordered ahead of some of you and I've still not received any word, and some of you are already listening to yours! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## JoelT

olegausany said:


> Which tubes you have?


 
 A matched pair of Sylvania JAN 5814A/12AU7.
  
 They were discussed as a comparison tube from some early meet impressions, so I felt that they would be a reasonably affordable, somewhat safe, starting point.


----------



## JoelT

edmontoncanuck said:


> Have all you early-bird'ers that ordered your WA7tp received your shipment tracking emails? I know for a fact that I ordered ahead of some of you and I've still not received any word, and some of you are already listening to yours!


 
 My shipment notice was sent on Tuesday the 6th. I received the unit this morning. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I assume you've contacted Woo?


----------



## Maxx134

As far as the silver finish goes.
I just noticed my units look to have exact same finish on THE FRONT..
But the sides of my wa7 is flat and so does not have that sparkle that is on the front and top of it, 
While the wa7tp had it on all sides..
Otherwise for me they are same color..


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

joelt said:


> edmontoncanuck said:
> 
> 
> > Have all you early-bird'ers that ordered your WA7tp received your shipment tracking emails? I know for a fact that I ordered ahead of some of you and I've still not received any word, and some of you are already listening to yours!
> ...





Yeah, I sent a follow up email this morning. Still haven't heard back.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## groovyd

It's reserve/on-demand power is just stunning now.  I sense absolutely no dip in the stability of the supply even listening to Mr Saxobeat at 3/4 volume which is a pretty demanding song.  Ofcourse this is using LCD-X... haven't switched to T1 which I think might prove or not the capability of this supply.  This supply definitely has more continuous punch then the solid state had.  Bass is much more textured through the punches as well, very clear even through some pretty sweaty stuff that may collapse lesser supplies.
  
 I only wish it matched my WA7 and that both stood as tall.  WA7 is a good 3-4mm lower then the WA7tp and tilted even lower in one corner.


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> It's reserve/on-demand power is just stunning now.  I sense absolutely no dip in the stability of the supply even listening to Mr Saxobeat at 3/4 volume which is a pretty demanding song.  Ofcourse this is using LCD-X... haven't switched to T1 which I think might prove or not the capability of this supply.  This supply definitely has more continuous punch then the solid state had.  Bass is much more textured through the punches as well, very clear even through some pretty sweaty stuff that may collapse lesser supplies.


 
  
 I was listening to some of John Hopkins _Immunity _and had the same impression. The amp remained in complete control in even the densest of passages, many of which have very deep and textured bass. Comparatively, the SS supply can sound a bit overwhelmed and edgy. Additionally, I would add that there is absolutely no sense of harshness at the expense of greater spatial separation. In other words, nothing sounds even remotely artificial. It comes across as superbly transparent and smooth...really a wonderful presentation.  
  
 BTW 3/4 volume? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My eardrums would be blown back in to my skull at that level.


----------



## Maxx134

joelt said:


> A matched pair of Sylvania JAN 5814A/12AU7.
> 
> They were discussed as a comparison tube from some early meet impressions, so I felt that they would be a reasonably affordable, somewhat safe, starting point.



Can you verify if those Sylvania tubes make the whole unit slightly hotter?
It is not by much but it is noticeable..

Anyway I prefer the Sylvania more.
Another notch higher(!),
As hard as that is for me to come to terms with.
It is hard to describe the whole presentation without sounding like hyperbole, but it is a very effortless clear sound like another amp altogether..


----------



## groovyd

joelt said:


> I was listening to some of John Hopkins _Immunity _and had the same impression. The amp remained in complete control in even the densest of passages, many of which have very deep and textured bass. Comparatively, the SS supply can sound a bit overwhelmed and edgy. Additionally, I would add that there is absolutely no sense of harshness at the expense of greater spatial separation. In other words, nothing sounds even remotely artificial. It comes across as superbly transparent and smooth...really a wonderful presentation.
> 
> BTW 3/4 volume?
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is via JRiver using their volume leveling turned on which cuts the volume back considerably across the board.  I use iTunes at work and the same volume setting at 9 oclock on the WA7 using iTunes is 12 using JRiver.  Cuts everything back a good 25% or more i'd say.  Really wish it did a better job of volume leveling across playlists.  It basically says 'I don't know anything about what is coming up so I will just cut everything back 25%'.
  
 I am sure the amp has different characteristic curves at these higher volume knob levels needed to counteract the gain reduction of the sw leveling.  I would really prefer they offset the sw reduction per song by boosting it back as averaged across say the next 5 songs in the playlist but this is something I have argued with JRiver about in the past with to no avail.  Their argument is to just turn up the amp volume believing it doesn't affect the end sound.  This is where we disagree.  However I can't really listen to music with it turned off though, just too much fiddling with the knob every other song is a complete distraction.


----------



## smellyfungus

now I really regret being asleep during initial preorders. wonder how many of us have the Sylvania's. they were lauded as a good bang for buck in 12au7 threads I've read. 

I'll roll in 1969s IEC labeled mullards when I get my unit.

exciting that its a clear upgrade for all who have listened.


----------



## Maxx134

Sylvania tubes seems to have more spacial cues in the bass and more distinctly spaced out sound stage.. 

It makes me think I am going insane hearing such differences.
But I just switched back a forth time from the stock tubes, to Sylvania 5814..

I am not switching back.
Sylvania stays as I am mesmerized with every song..


----------



## olegausany

Wish i could try Mullard E80CC


----------



## Dogmatrix

There are a few technical differences between 12au7 and 5814a
 Heater current 12au7 150Ma , 5814a 175Ma this could explain the higher temp
 Plate dissipation 12au7 2.75W , 5814a 3W this may boost the dynamic


----------



## olegausany

But it still should work with problems


----------



## Maxx134

dogmatrix said:


> There are a few technical differences between 12au7 and 5814a
> Heater current 12au7 150Ma , 5814a 175Ma this could explain the higher temp
> Plate dissipation 12au7 2.75W , 5814a 3W this may boost the dynamic



thank you for proving I am NOT insane as I herd these differences and knew nothing of these specs!

Now would you know about the Mullard E80CC..? Specs?


----------



## Dogmatrix

E80CC is not recommended as a direct replacement for 12au7
 Heater current is very high 300Ma and may over tax the transformer
 Many other parameters are also different


----------



## olegausany

ECC82 or E82CC should also work


----------



## olegausany

And ECC802S as well


----------



## Dogmatrix

If you really want a Mullard the CV4003/M8136 box plate are drop in replacements


----------



## JoelT

Now a handful of songs deep with the Sylvania JAN 5814A's. _Very_ impressive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'll put together some detailed impressions later this weekend after having more time to get a grasp on what I'm hearing. 
  
  


maxx134 said:


> Can you verify if those Sylvania tubes make the whole unit slightly hotter?
> It is not by much but it is noticeable..


 
 I took a temp reading of the stock tubes by placing a digital thermometer next to them inside of the glass surround. I'll do the same with Sylvania's. Far from scientific, but it should give some indication if they are indeed running warmer.


----------



## groovyd

For me the WA7 tubes are running easy 3 times hotter then the WA7tp tubes which are actually quite cool.


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> This is via JRiver using their volume leveling turned on which cuts the volume back considerably across the board.  I use iTunes at work and the same volume setting at 9 oclock on the WA7 using iTunes is 12 using JRiver.  Cuts everything back a good 25% or more i'd say.  Really wish it did a better job of volume leveling across playlists.  It basically says 'I don't know anything about what is coming up so I will just cut everything back 25%'.
> 
> I am sure the amp has different characteristic curves at these higher volume knob levels needed to counteract the gain reduction of the sw leveling.  I would really prefer they offset the sw reduction per song by boosting it back as averaged across say the next 5 songs in the playlist but this is something I have argued with JRiver about in the past with to no avail.  Their argument is to just turn up the amp volume believing it doesn't affect the end sound.  This is where we disagree.  However I can't really listen to music with it turned off though, just too much fiddling with the knob every other song is a complete distraction.


 
 That makes sense. Considering the LCD-X is more efficient than the LCD-2 that I'm running, it struck me as a quick path to hearing loss. I don't mind turning the volume knob on the WA7. It's perfectly dampened IMO, which I derive some level of satisfaction from. The TP push button feels loose and out of sync with the volume knob...thankfully you only have to press it once and then you can forget about it.


----------



## esimms86

Two questions. If the Wa7tp power supply opens up the soundstage significantly, how does it then fare with Senn HD800's? Also, I'm assuming that everyone is listening through the built in Woo DAC. If you're not , then please post which DAC you're using when you state your impressions. Oh, and BTW, please be sure to specify the tubes you're using when stating impressions. I don't mean to be a pain but this thread is going to be a great source of information for a lot people(myself included). I anticipate that there will also be some interesting comparisons of the WA7/tp combo and other amp/DAC combos along the way. Thanks.

Esau


----------



## Maxx134

I abandoned the built in dac in the wa7 long ago and use an Arcam irdac.
At the time I considered it smoother and cleaner to the edgy wa7 internal DAC.

Since then my DAC became transparent so I don't even focus on it.
Now with this new PSU it is very musical sound.

The headphone will not matter as I hear improvement regardless.

As for synergy with the hd800..
For me The hd800 finally becomes musical in my specific setup.

Its no longer as analytical and distracting, as details now take on a breath of musicality.
The larger sonic stage compliments the cans ability to display it.
So now the hd800s soundstage is more natural and not artificial.

Transparency abounds more naturally, and that is an impressive achievement for me, because I thought to give up on the hd800 being unnaturally large and too analytically detailed & distracting.

So In other words the hd800 sounds like it is connected to a top quality tube amp, 
as thats the type to make an hd800 sing..

*Edit*
I am on the Sylvania 5814 tubes exclusively and the stock will probably never be used


----------



## warrenpchi

Holy crap, this thread blew up tonight!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


maxx134 said:


> The wa7 simply does not sound the same after this upgrade with either tube set.
> It sounds so involving now, instead of mainly "presenting" the music clear and clean to you..
> You are more sucked into music on all aspects.
> Normal music becomes more alive and enjoyable.
> ...


 
  
 Okay... so that thing where I told people not to upgrade if the were perfectly happy with the solid state PSU... no one is going to pay attention to that anymore right?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
 



edmontoncanuck said:


> Have all you early-bird'ers that ordered your WA7tp received your shipment tracking emails? I know for a fact that I ordered ahead of some of you and I've still not received any word, and some of you are already listening to yours!
> Originally Posted by *EdmontonCanuck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Yeah, I sent a follow up email this morning. Still haven't heard back.


 
  
 Edmonton, man I'm sorry.  I was hoping that yours would just show up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Have you tried PMming HiFiGuy528?  Now that he works for them, maybe he could help a fellow Head-Fier out?
  


groovyd said:


> I only wish it matched my WA7 and that both stood as tall.  WA7 is a good 3-4mm lower then the WA7tp and tilted even lower in one corner.


 
  
 Mine are a perfect match.  The only thing I can notice is that the WA7tp seems to have sharper corners, but that was only after some degree of scrutiny.
  


esimms86 said:


> Also, I'm assuming that everyone is listening through the built in Woo DAC. If you're not , then please post which DAC you're using when you state your impressions


 
  
 Hey Esau (and everyone).  My early impressions over at Audio360 were all done with the WA7's stock DAC.  I didn't want to presume that everyone was using a different DAC.  That said, I have since switched back over to my Mytek DAC.  As you would imagine, detail has increased considerably.


----------



## warrenpchi

maxx134 said:


> I am on the Sylvania 5814 tubes exclusively and the stock will probably never be used


 
  
 You are seriously tempting me now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Screw it, I'll do it.  Then I'm going to show my buddy third_eye how this drives his HD 800 for only half the cost.


----------



## JoelT

warrenpchi said:


> You are seriously tempting me now...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Sylvania JAN 5814A's bring back all of the bass attack/drive that was in the SS psu, and then some...while still maintaining the control and texture of the stock WA7tp tubes. Truly impressive dynamics from an amp at this price point. I need to do some more back and forth testing, but I sense that the bass body may be _slightly _boosted as well, though that perception may be a product of simply gaining more impact. Still lots more listening to be done...


----------



## olegausany

Let the tubes at least 24 hours of use before making complete opinion


----------



## JoelT

olegausany said:


> Let the tubes at least 24 hours of use before making complete opinion


 
  
 100% Agreed. They are very early impressions and more time is needed. Thanks for pointing that out...good to keep things in context. That said, I need to run burn in time on _both _tube sets. My comment was more of a confirmation of Maxx134's thoughts on the tubes...I'm hearing some of the same things, even at an early stage. We'll see how things pan out with some time.
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Maxx134

joelt said:


> 100% Agreed. They are very early impressions and more time is needed. Thanks for pointing that out...good to keep things in context. That said, I need to run burn in time on _both _tube sets. My comment was more of a confirmation of Maxx134's thoughts on the tubes...I'm hearing some of the same things, even at an early stage. We'll see how things pan out with some time.
> 
> Cheers.



My observations agree about the tube warm up.

Although, the stock tubes take longer to come to full sonic potential. 
The Sylvania are much quicker to sound fully warm.. 

Once I realized this, I decided to give some time for both to reach full sonic potential before I played, 
but I don't usually wait that long lol.
Regardless of how long, my impatience is about 5minutes for me to start with these lil tubes.


----------



## olegausany

You should wait 10-15 minutes. Don't forget stock need burn in


----------



## Maxx134

olegausany said:


> You should wait 10-15 minutes. Don't forget stock need burn in



Stock was burned in at the NYmeet and the Sylvania still blew it away.. Remember


----------



## JoelT

maxx134 said:


> My observations agree about the tube warm up.


 
 How many hours do you have on your Sylvania's thus far?


----------



## olegausany

joelt said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > My observations agree about the tube warm up.
> ...



His Sylvanias were used by two owners before he got them


----------



## JoelT

Missed that detail. Thanks.


----------



## Maxx134

Thanks I didn't know that either.


----------



## groovyd

agree the TP push button should be a twist with a click to turn on off.  It seems out of sync as you say with the WA7 knob.  The On/Off graphic as well looks out of place above the button.  I might prefer no push button at all and just using the WA7 to power on if it were just a cube with no button at all.  Or even the same type rear switch as on the WA7.


----------



## groovyd

turns out the glass cube is 1mm thicker on one of the units and the rubber feet are also about 1mm deeper giving almost 2mm difference between them except that it is not even, 2mm on one side an 1mm on the other.  Used a micrometer to measure.


----------



## Maxx134

Does anyone have and planning to try the ECC802S tubes or any other tubes?
I may try these next.


----------



## groovyd

I think I will stand out of the tube rolling until everyone agrees which one is best... avoid accumulating yet another pile of hobby gone by.  Just everyone please sort it all out and let me know which is best.  I will check back in 6 months


----------



## JoelT

maxx134 said:


> Thanks I didn't know that either.


 
 LOL! Classic. What's the real scoop?
  


groovyd said:


> agree the TP push button should be a twist with a click to turn on off.  It seems out of sync as you say with the WA7 knob.  The On/Off graphic as well looks out of place above the button.  I might prefer no push button at all and just using the WA7 to power on if it were just a cube with no button at all.  Or even the same type rear switch as on the WA7.


 
 While it's far from a deal-breaker, the design/feel clearly isn't on par with the main unit. I would agree with you there. I would have preferred the "power" symbol to be omitted as well, as it seems unnecessary and doesn't fit the clean design aesthetic. Obviously a twist knob is wishful thinking at this stage, as nice as it would have been. 
  


groovyd said:


> I think I will stand out of the tube rolling until everyone agrees which one is best... avoid accumulating yet another pile of hobby gone by.  Just everyone please sort it all out and let me know which is best.  I will check back in 6 months


 





 _Sure_. Make the other chumps bankroll the tube rolling expenses. I probably will try out one more set in the next few weeks and call it good for awhile...I'm not going to buy a drawer full either. Hopefully we can coordinate some impressions to get to the bottom of the issue.


----------



## Maxx134

I ordered the ECC802S..
I guess I'm a test dummy


----------



## groovyd

would a q-tip and some rubbing alcohol take the power icon off without damaging the aluminum finish?  guessing it has some clear coat finish that might also come off?  actually won't be doing anything to these units until I hear beack from Jack regarding the height and finish mismatch.


----------



## olegausany

maxx134 said:


> I ordered the ECC802S..
> I guess I'm a test dummy



Which brand you getting?


----------



## warrenpchi

groovyd said:


> I think I will stand out of the tube rolling until everyone agrees which one is best... avoid accumulating yet another pile of hobby gone by.  Just everyone please sort it all out and let me know which is best.  I will check back in 6 months


 
  
 Hehe, I think everyone who has tried it agrees that the Sylvania 5814 is a definite improvement.  Endgame tube or not, surely that by itself justifies acquisition?


----------



## Maxx134

joelt said:


> LOL! Classic. What's the real scoop?



He was the second owmer(!)


Anyway I just ordered the least expensive version of the ECC802S tube.. Off ebay..
I think it is new stock. 
The "JJ" ECC802S..

If they do not perform better than stock I will video tape myself stomping on them..


----------



## audiophile_007

maxx134 said:


> Does anyone have and planning to try the ECC802S tubes or any other tubes?
> I may try these next.


 
 I got the JJ ECC802S gold pin, long plate version. They're here on my desk, all I need is a WA7TP.


----------



## teamrushpntball

Just scored a great deal on a WA7, suppose I'll be grabbing the WA7tp  in a week or so to go with it.  Hopefully a nice replacement for my Lyr/Bifrost.


----------



## olegausany

teamrushpntball said:


> Just scored a great deal on a WA7, suppose I'll be grabbing the WA7tp  in a week or so to go with it.  Hopefully a nice replacement for my Lyr/Bifrost.



If it's better than Lyr depends on tubes and personal preference but i would keep Bifrost to use instead of stock Dac


----------



## teamrushpntball

olegausany said:


> If it's better than Lyr depends on tubes and personal preference but i would keep Bifrost to use instead of stock Dac


 
 Glad this was mentioned now, was about to sell the Bifrost.  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## CongeeBear

Oh man, groovyd's observations about the aesthetic mismatch between the amp and WA7tp have me quite concerned! Differences in aluminum finish and height would drive me nuts! Is this a common issue that people are noticing, or did groovyd just get stuck with a bad unit?


----------



## groovyd

congeebear said:


> Oh man, groovyd's observations about the aesthetic mismatch between the amp and WA7tp have me quite concerned! Differences in aluminum finish and height would drive me nuts! Is this a common issue that people are noticing, or did groovyd just get stuck with a bad unit?


 
 I have an earlier Wa7 but not that early.  I am going on a limb here and guessing you have a reasonable chance of this happening.  I have 2 WA7 and will be getting my second WA7tp in a week or two so I will see if that also mismatches.  Yes, I am a perfectionist so this does really bother me.  Sound is great but you kinda want the whole package when you spend around $1500 for an amp.  I wouldn't mind trading my WA7 in plus paying a bit more for a WA7d if that solves the height and finish issue even though I have no use for the optical input.
  
 Emailed Jack the glass block measurements I made using a micrometer and turns out the two blocks themselves are 1mm difference in height and his response was this was within tolerance and that surface finish varies from batch to batch and was expected.  With the rubber feet also off around 1mm and at a slight tilt it does not look good at all, even if the finish were identical.  My best option right now is to use the thicker glass block on the shorter unit which half compensates for the difference.  The finish still throws it off for me though. Kind of wish I had bought them both together and just sold off my original WA7.  Probably a better chance of them matching.  The front of my WA7 is matte finish the front of the WA7tp is sparkly and they are around 2mm difference in height, one tilted a half mm.
  
 Maybe we can all post our unit height and finish spec and do a swap to get the best matches amongst us... so much for being an early bird


----------



## CongeeBear

groovyd said:


> I have an earlier Wa7 but not that early.  I am going on a limb here and guessing you have a reasonable chance of this happening.  I have 2 WA7 and will be getting my second WA7tp in a week or two so I will see if that also mismatches.  Yes, I am a perfectionist so this does really bother me.  Sound is great but you kinda want the whole package when you spend around $1500 for an amp.  I wouldn't mind trading my WA7 in plus paying a bit more for a WA7d if that solves the height and finish issue even though I have no use for the optical input.
> 
> Emailed Jack the glass block measurements I made using a micrometer and turns out the two blocks themselves are 1mm difference in height and his response was this was within tolerance and that surface finish varies from batch to batch and was expected.  With the rubber feet also off around 1mm and at a slight tilt it does not look good at all, even if the finish were identical.  My best option right now is to use the thicker glass block on the shorter unit which half compensates for the difference.  The finish still throws it off for me though. Kind of wish I had bought them both together and just sold off my original WA7.  Probably a better chance of them matching.  The front of my WA7 is matte finish the front of the WA7tp is sparkly and they are around 2mm difference in height, one tilted a half mm.
> 
> Maybe we can all post our unit height and finish spec and do a swap to get the best matches amongst us... so much for being an early bird


 
 Wow, so altogether that's a 2mm height difference, or 2000 microns. Kinda amazing when you consider the fact that the iPhone 5 is manufactured within tolerances of +/- SEVEN microns, lol. Really puts into perspective Apple's "insanely-good" manufacturing standards!
  
 If that's the case, I too wish there were an option to trade in our WA7s (mine is among the earliest batches) for a WA7d. I'm a perfectionist like you, and I also don't give a toss about the optical input -- but the differences in finish would probably give me an aneurysm! And yes, sometimes it really does suck to be an early-adopter. Having said that, however, I've never had an issue with the build quality of any Woo amp, their stuff has always been impeccable from my experience!


----------



## warrenpchi

I'd be happy to post measurements, but I doubt I'll want to trade as I have a pretty good match right now, in terms of both size and finish.


----------



## JoelT

+1
  
 While I haven't measured my black WA7tp, it visually matches my WA7 in both height and finish (and the improvement in sound is stellar). It's not going anywhere.


----------



## Maxx134

groovyd said:


> I have an earlier Wa7 but not that early...
> 
> turns out the two blocks themselves are 1mm difference in height ...
> 
> ...



I didn't know your wa7 finish is matttle. That would be a huge difference as my unit they are both sparkly on front and top, but the sides of my wa7 are flat or mattle paint finish.

I have idea for height solution.
Inquire if you can order replacement feet for either unit to get same height.

Also ask if you can return your unit to get it finish replaced.

Nothing is impossible if you just inquire.. Maybe cost you some more though


----------



## groovyd

I think I just got a unit on the low end of the tolerances on one hand and the top end on the other.  The tolerance is not really tight enough to consider these a pair.  On their own sure you would never notice but together exact symmetry really matters, especially considering the average audio enthusiast is already focused on the details.  Def not an easy market to keep happy unless your tolerances are tight.


----------



## groovyd

I'd be fine returning it for a replacement even if it cost me something.  But since they are sold as an intended pair I really think it shouldn't cost me any more then it has.  At least that was my expectation, that they would look nice together.  Don't get me wrong, they sound great together.


----------



## olegausany

To those who interested in tubes rolling i would suggest to try Westinghouse 12AU7 black plates labeled CONN from '50


----------



## JoelT

Any further thoughts as to why that might be a good option? I saw the Genalex Gold Lion's mentioned earlier as well.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Black plates , grey plates , long plates , short plates , box plates , wrinkled plates , smooth plates , double mica , triple mica , support rods , side getter , square getter , round getter , solid getter , dimple getter , foil getter, clear top , gold pin , cryo , 12au7 , ECC82 , 5814 , 5963 , 6067 , 6189 , 6680 , 7730 , B329 , B749 , E82CC , ECC802S , M8136 , 13D5 , CV4003 , 7489 , 7316
 LOL


----------



## olegausany

The whole idea that many people, me included hear difference between them


----------



## groovyd

dogmatrix said:


> Black plates , grey plates , long plates , short plates , box plates , wrinkled plates , smooth plates , double mica , triple mica , support rods , side getter , square getter , round getter , solid getter , dimple getter , foil getter, clear top , gold pin , cryo , 12au7 , ECC82 , 5814 , 5963 , 6067 , 6189 , 6680 , 7730 , B329 , B749 , E82CC , ECC802S , M8136 , 13D5 , CV4003 , 7489 , 7316
> LOL


 
  
 usually tubes with unobtanium plates sound the best


----------



## karzai

I received my WA7 and WA7tp yesterday. They came in two separate boxes that are housed in one big box. When I opened the boxes, I thought some items were missing and that the customs stole them. My bad. I came to realize that they just used the old WA7 styrofoams and that some slots did not need to be filled.
  
 Since I am one of the earliest birds, same as groovyd, who had a terrible mismatch, the first thing I did was to have them stand side by side on an even surface and see whether there are any differences in height. I scrutinized them carefully and observed that there is about a 200-micron difference: hardly noticeably from about 2 feet. To me it wouldn't really matter but a 2-mm difference is unforgivable. Sorry groovyd.
  
 But let me take a breath there for a while, because, oh boy! They are absolutely gorgeous. It really is quite a sight to behold seeing them light up like angry twin imps whose red glowing eyes  illuminate the deepest bowels of a malicious forest with authority and malfeasance.
  
 Now, let's get down to business.
  
 I have never owned nor heard anything from a headphone amplifier before so I cannot really relate a convincing comparison between or among amplifiers. But compared to the phone-out of computers, the difference is starking as night and day. Now, talking about the $1,400 price tag just to hear those differences... I honestly don't know. Being new to audiophile headphones, my opinion about price and good music is somewhat ambiguous and at times vague. But I know this is a treacherous path to take and I am now on the first flight going down.
  
 I have an excellent speaker system and I can immediately compare the sound coming from a headphone and the one coming from the speakers. I must say that headphones can provide the greatest detail in treble and mid range but the speakers are unbeatable when it comes to bass. Sure, bass in headphone is detailed but the visceral effect is entirely absent. I have a Hsu VTF-3 MK4 subwoofer so you probably know what I mean.
  
 To compare whether WA7 + WA7tp made a marked difference from a generic computer out, I had to compare several tracks across different genres.
  
  
 Headphone - Shure SRH840
 Player - Jriver Media Center 19
  
  
 DAC -  generic computer on-board DAC / WA7 DAC
 Amplfiers - generic computer on-board Amp / WA7 + WA7tp
  
 Test tracks:
 1. "She believes in me" by Kenny Rogers
 2. "Love moves in mysterious ways" by Nina from "Nina Live!"
 3. "Love of Butterfly" from "Poems with Flowers" by Asia Records
 4. "When the day breaks" by a-Pav from Dulcet Summer Series
 5. "Entering Twin Falls" by Nicholas Gunn from "The Music of the Grand Canyon"
 6. "Carmina Burana O Fortuna" by The London Symphony Orchestra and Chorus from "100 der Klassik"
 7. "Time to say Goodbye (Solo version)" by Sarah Brightman from Voce: Beautiful Songs
 8. "Tequila Sunrise" by Eagles from "Desperado" 24/192 track.
 9. "Auld Lang Syne" by Sissel
 10. "(-) Ions" by Tool from "Aenima"
 11. "Du hast" by Rammstein
 12. "Elevator" by Flo Rida
 13. "The New Canon Rock" by Mattrach
 14.  "If you could see me now" by Strata Institute
  
 I will post my observations after I have properly listened to them.
  
 My purpose in doing this test is to establish a baseline for my future comparisons. For now, the most important thing is that I would be able to differentiate what a good amp can do in terms of detail and response from a generic setup. I have observed upon using the amp that soundstage is heavily dependent on detail. That's why, as what I have read here, the HD800 is unbeatable in terms of soundstage because of its incredible ability to resolve details.


----------



## Maxx134

Initial impressions of using the JJ ECC802S Tubes are that they seem to make the amp more linear and strike somewhere in between the Sylvania 5814A and the stock Electro-Harmonix ECC82 tubes.
They keep bass extension without increasing the amount slightly like the Sylvania.
So it seems more a linear output. 
This are just preliminary impressions but I know for sure they don't run as hot or heat up quickly so I left on for a while before I tested.
These could be a nice safe solution for upgrade. 

Still , all those other tubes makes the ttask of best tube pretty monumental. .

Edit: 
The tubes took longer to heat up and now my unit is just as hot as the amp so now they don't run as cool as stock electro, but I still feel a better linear sound so I
Still I like this sound more than either.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I think tube rolling the WA7tp will be a process of fine tuning to achieve a sound that best matches you're equipment and preference .
 So "best tube " may be an impossible dream
 You're feedback on the ECC802S is a valuable piece of a data base we must build over the coming months
 Only another thousand or so to go


----------



## Maxx134

I had to update my initial impressions but end result is same I like these JJ tubes and feel now that most replacement has chance at being better than stock


----------



## JoelT

_An Early WA7tp Mini Review_
  

  
  
  
 When I initially read about the WA7tp, I wasn’t entirely sure what to expect. An upgraded tube power supply that commands a significant chunk of the original asking price of the WA7? Seriously? Wasn’t the stock, solid state supply already designed specifically with the WA7 in mind? Despite my misgivings, the possibilities intrigued me. Why would Woo offer a new PSU if the difference in sound quality was marginal? After all, tube psu’s are common with their other models. To further fan the flames, early meet impressions proved very positive. So, like many here, I jumped at the opportunity to purchase an early production unit when Woo posted their early bird offer. 

  
_Finish/Aesthetics:_
  
 I ordered a black unit to match my WA7, and I have no complaints about the aesthetics. Placed directly alongside my WA7, the unit’s visually match in finish and height. Unfortunately, the “push” power-button feels quite loose compared to the tight and beautifully dampened volume knob on the WA7. While I understand the desire to visually match the two units, I would have personally preferred a different style of power switch, even at the expense of visual appeal. I suspect Woo was in a difficult position here, with no perfect answer. You can’t please everyone, as the cliche goes. Gripes aside, the bottom line is that the power-button works just fine in practice. It’s far from deal-breaker, but those who anticipate the same sensation of quality found in interacting with the WA7 will be disappointed. Also, if you’ve been following this thread, some users have experienced quality control issues with their units. Hopefully Woo gets this addressed. I suspect we’ll get a better sense of where the chips fall as more folks receive their WA7tp’s. 

  
_Sound:_
  
_All impressions made with: WA7 w/ EH Gold Tubes, WA7 internal DAC, Audeze LCD-2 (current rev. with fazor & M.A. Silver Dragon cable), Sennheiser HD-600, Stock Electro Harmonix Tubes & Sylvania JAN 5814A Tubes with the WA7tp (20+ hrs of burn time on each)_. 
  
 So the real question: What does the WA7/WAtp sound like? I think the short answer is, “Like a higher class amp”. This is not to say that it no longer sounds like the WA7 (the WA7’s smooth charm is left intact, if that happens to be a concern), but rather that it is now significantly improved, especially in regards to technicalities. How, you may ask, do you improve on the WA7? The WA7tp’s answer is to expand the soundstage in width and depth, add a sense of layering and holographic imaging that wasn’t originally present, throw in a liberal dose of “air”, clarify the upper mid range, significantly tighten and texture the bass, increase overall transparency, kick up dynamics and open up the possibility of further enhancing the sound presentation with tube rolling. Whew. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah. It sounds _amazing_. 
  
 Let me frame it from another angle. The stock PSU sounds smaller, comparatively congested and a bit woolly in both the bass and the upper mids. There is also a very noticeable difference in transparency - leaving one with the impression that the stock psu sounds slightly veiled. With the stock tubes, I found the WA7tp’s bass to have a touch less punch and body than with the solid state psu. Regardless, I still preferred the presentation as it felt more natural, textured and controlled. In complex passages, the amp is now able to maintain a far better “grip” on the sound.
  
 All this said, if you have concerns about bass body, extension and impact, throw them out the window. Tube rolling the WA7tp _will _address this concern. While I greatly prefer the stock tube WA7tp to the solid state psu, I’ve found that I prefer the Sylvania JAN 5814A’s over the stock tubes (thanks to Maxx134 for the recommendation), as they are a bit more “forward” sounding, more dynamic, and the bass is absolutely delicious. Think controlled, textured, extended and punching like a heavy weight. I look forward to hearing other user’s impressions of the various tubes in the coming days. In terms of tubes, given the almost overwhelming options available, I suspect there are even greener pastures to be found.
  
  
_Conclusion:_
  
 In short, the WA7tp is a great product - sonically far better than I anticipated. It effectively converts the WA7 in to an upgradable system that is both aesthetically appealing and most importantly, provides a tremendous listening experience. If you own a WA7, purchasing the “TP” is a no-brainer. If you want to extend the sound quality if your current setup, especially if the WA7 is your primary amplifier, I would recommend making the switch. Thanks to Woo Audio for further extending the value of the WA7.
  
 Pros:
 - Sound quality is a significant step up in virtually all regards
 - While certainly not free, the price feels more than justified for the difference in sound quality 
 - Looks good placed next to the WA7
 - Enables more tube rolling options and further customization
  
 Cons:
 - Some early build quality issues being reported
 - Power push-button isn’t on par with the volume knob on the WA7
- Stock tubes do not reveal the full potential of the WA7tp (expect to roll tubes)​


----------



## olegausany

maxx134 said:


> I had to update my initial impressions but end result is same I like these JJ tubes and feel now that most replacement has chance at being better than stock



The difficult part is to find which you like more. I tred Westinghouse 12AU7 and Tesla ECC802S with BH Crack and prefer 12AU7 over ECC802S while many consider Tesla ECC802S among the best for the Crack


----------



## Dogmatrix

I fear much if not all of the knowledge base built from 12au7 in the Crack may be redundant
 WA7tp's use of 12au7 as a rectifier is quite unique , I do not know of any other amps using the 12au7 this way


----------



## olegausany

Me too i just mentioned it because I want until you try a specific tube by yourself you will not know if it works for you or not


----------



## Maxx134

joelt said:


> _An Early WA7tp Mini Review_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow you have a gift for reviewing!
Excellent concise review.

Yes I am thinking to go try the Westinghouse next but that's it for me lol


----------



## Denon Frank

joelt said:


> _An Early WA7tp Mini Review_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Excellent review JoelT. Thank You!


----------



## phobos0411

I think I got unlucky. My wa7tp arrived the other day. Blows the fuse as soon as its switched on though  gonna have to return for repairs. Funny thing is it worked for a good 8 hours or so before behaving like this the day after. I wish it hadn't worked at all though because it definitely sounded better than the standard psu. Sigh, waiting to hear back from jack on return shipping costs as it's a pretty penny or two ftom the uk.

Great review JoelIt, I certainly agree on the power button though. Been spoilt with wa7 I guess


----------



## pragu

joelt said:


>


 
 Now I'm confused - is the power symbol above the button, or in the center of the button?
  


phobos0411 said:


> I think I got unlucky. My wa7tp arrived the other day. Blows the fuse as soon as its switched on though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  
 That is so brutal. I guess the upside is that it didn't destroy your WA7?


----------



## phobos0411

Yes the power symbol on mine was like the above picture unlike the promo shots we've already seen.

Not destroying the wa7 is a plus, yes. My heart skipped a beat when I turned the setup on to see all tubes glow for less than a second before dieing. In between that point and plugging in my original psu to test the amp was still working was tense to say the least.


----------



## JoelT

Thanks folks! Hopefully the additional information is of some use to people still curious about the product. 
  
 Quote:


pragu said:


> Now I'm confused - is the power symbol above the button, or in the center of the button?


 
 The photograph in my review is one I took of my WA7tp, which is as shown (power symbol _above _the button). Woo's photographs on their site show it _on _the button...not sure why there's a discrepancy. Strange, now that you pointed that out.


phobos0411 said:


> Yes the power symbol on mine was like the above picture unlike the promo shots we've already seen.
> 
> Not destroying the wa7 is a plus, yes. My heart skipped a beat when I turned the setup on to see all tubes glow for less than a second before dieing. In between that point and plugging in my original psu to test the amp was still working was tense to say the least.


 
 Wow. What a downer. So sorry to hear this. Another case of "early build quality issues being reported" per my review.


----------



## phobos0411

I've had wa7tp running today after giving more fuses a try. It's run for about 7 hours total today with a 1 and a half hour break in between. The fuse I put in is a 160ma. I've also got couple of 250ma ones to try as well if this goes south. So for now I'm enjoying the sound and praying it doesn't get really hungry for fuses lol. 

What I did notice which is strange... The wa7tp says on the back 250ma @230v however the two blown fuses which came with the unit were rated for 200. Until putting the 160 in I thought maybe the 200 fuses just weren't enough for the unit. But now I'm really confused. Thought the 160 would have blown for sure! Here's to hoping it's smooth sailing from here on out because this unit really does sound better than the stock psu from first impressions


----------



## groovyd

that's nearly 50 watts... quite a bit of power for driving what i thought was a 1 watt amplifier... is your converter switch set to 110 or 220? maybe that is the problem. most of the testing was likely done in america which is 110.


----------



## warrenpchi

My power symbol is dead center on the button, as shown in the promo photographs... but that's probably because my unit was the one photographed.


----------



## groovyd

i like it better in the center of the button personally.  would be even nicer if the button were not turnable. seems not a tough thing to do internally, preventing the button from turning.  really think the best solution would be to just drop the button entirely (save everyone the cost of the switch and the machining ($100?) and just power on via the WA7 back switch.  Would look much cleaner and remove a potential failure point.
  
 Ideally the WA7 volume knob would be one of those where it clicks off at the min volume position and get rid of the rear switch as well.


----------



## warrenpchi

Actually, I kind of like the button.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think the main cost of the WA7 is the ridiculous-machining-of-the-aluminum bit... so I'm not sure the switch is a big deal in the over all scheme of things.
  
 Tel you what I would like though... I would like it if the power symbol were the same size and in the same position as the circle indicator of the WA7's volume dial (assuming it was dialed in to the 12:00 position).


----------



## pervysage

How do you go about switching on the WA7 after adding the WA7TP to the chain? Is it switching on the WA7TP on first via the front button, and then flicking the rear switch on the WA7?
  
 Or do you keep the WA7 permanently in the ON position and it turns off when you turn the WA7TP off?


----------



## warrenpchi

pervysage said:


> How do you go about switching on the WA7 after adding the WA7TP to the chain? Is it switching on the WA7TP on first via the front button, and then flicking the rear switch on the WA7?


 
  
 That won't work.  The WA7tp will not power on unless the WA7 has already been switched on.
  


pervysage said:


> Or do you keep the WA7 permanently in the ON position and it turns off when you turn the WA7TP off?


 
  
 This, this is what I do.


----------



## groovyd

personally i just left the WA7 on and switched both on together from the WA7tp.  Not sure if this is the expected approach.
  
@warrenpchi - i would probably like the button a bit more if the symbol was in the middle of it like yours.  still the push feel is not as solid and has far more throw then expected.  i thought it would be a light touch.


----------



## warrenpchi

groovyd said:


> personally i just left the WA7 on and switched both on together from the WA7tp.  Not sure if this is the expected approach.


 
  
 Yup.  Actually, I'm not sure it can even work that other way around.  For me, if the WA7 is not switched on first, I can't even get the power supply to turn on.  In other words, under no circumstances can I get the power supply to turn on if (a) the WA7 is not connected - AND - (b) the WA7 is not switched on.
  


groovyd said:


> @warrenpchi - i would probably like the button a bit more if the symbol was in the middle of it like yours.  still the push feel is not as solid and has far more throw then expected.  i thought it would be a light touch.


 
  
 Yeah, definitely not a light touch.  Still, as long as it continues to turn on, I'm going to be fairly forgiving of this.  I can generally forgive a whole lot elsewhere if I like the sound.


----------



## groovyd

warrenpchi said:


> Yup.  Actually, I'm not sure it can even work that other way around.  For me, if the WA7 is not switched on first, I can't even get the power supply to turn on.  In other words, under no circumstances can I get the power supply to turn on if (a) the WA7 is not connected - AND - (b) the WA7 is not switched on.
> 
> 
> Yeah, definitely not a light touch.  Still, as long as it continues to turn on, I'm going to be fairly forgiving of this.  I can generally forgive a whole lot elsewhere if I like the sound.


 
 agreed, it is no deal breaker just one of those wish it were things...


----------



## JoelT

warrenpchi said:


> I can generally forgive a whole lot elsewhere if I like the sound.


 
 +1   Exactly. Isn't that what this is all ultimately about?


----------



## Earbones

What did you guys think about the WA7 before you got the tube power module? I took delivery of a standard WA7 today (with the $100 driver tubes upgrade), and I think it's going right back... It's pretty awful. Granted, it only has 6-7 hours on it, and maybe after it's fully burned in it will be better, but I don't think so. I've seen some pretty magical transformations with components pre and post burn-in, but this would be the widest performance gap pre and post burn-in I've ever seen. By about twice over, frankly. I just don't see it pulling such a total reversal... I'll probably go through paypal, frankly, because there is _no way_ I'm paying a 10% restocking fee for this...


----------



## Bevo

what are you using it to drive?


----------



## Earbones

HD650's... Standard cables right now because I'm having my Cardas repaired


----------



## olegausany

Have no idea what are you talking about. I had WA7 with stock power supply and both stock and EH tubes and HD650 sounded great. Give stock tubes at least 20 hours and EH tubes at least 30 hours before saying something 

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


----------



## warrenpchi

> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > I can generally forgive a whole lot elsewhere if I like the sound.
> ...


 
  
 You see, this is why I love Head-Fi!


----------



## Earbones

olegausany said:


> Have no idea what are you talking about. I had WA7 with stock power supply and both stock and EH tubes and HD650 sounded great. Give stock tubes at least 20 hours and EH tubes at least 30 hours before saying something
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


 
 Nah, I'll say something when I want to say something. Like I said, I understand burn-in. I also understand what reasonable expectations from burn-in are. For me to end up happy with the sound, the burn-in improvements of this amp would need to far and away exceed any burn-in improvements I have heard, ever. Like I said, it's possible, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## warrenpchi

FWIW, I don't like the synergy between the WA7 and HD 650... but for me that has much more to do with the HD 650.


----------



## olegausany

Sure everyone has his own preference. Sorry if i was too offensive


----------



## groovyd

perhaps it is a bad unit?  hard to believe it is double under anything else you have heard anywhere near the price range.  my guess is something is wrong with it.  email jack, perhaps he has a solution for you.  he is helping me match my 2 pair of WA7 to WA7tp now. it is hard waiting on them to be returned though


----------



## Earbones

I'm thinking it's a bad unit... It has to be- people love this amp. Doesn't make me any less frustrated though, ha ha.
  
 I should clarify, I don't think it's double under anything in the price range I've heard, just far off from where it should be, compared to say my WA3 or even my Rotel... The double comment was confusingly worded on my part. I was attempting to say that while I've seen some big transformations in various components between the initial listen and a proper burn-in, this WA7 seems VERY far off from where it should be, and if it does indeed end up sounding better than say my WA3 after it's properly burned-in, then that particular transformation would have to be around twice the biggest transformation due to a proper burn-in that I've seen... If that makes sense. Like I've seen lots of 7's and 8's burn-in and become 10's... But I've never seen a 5 become a 10. I'm a believer in letting things burn-in, but it can only do so much, I guess...
  
 Then again, who knows. Maybe the WA7 is different. Has anyone else had this experience with the WA7? Did it start out absolutely lackluster, and then double or triple it's performance after burn-in?
  
@olegausany - No worries. Just a little frustrated over here. Concerned I'm out $1100 for what is essentially a large system downgrade...


----------



## olegausany

Possible when you talk about Rotel and the like but when i spent 2 weeks trying 3 different EQs and D7000 didn't sound the way i wanted while HD650 sounded great after 30 seconds of EQ adjustment plus the best i heard with my setup and my music you might understand me


----------



## reddyxm

joelt said:


> _An Early WA7tp Mini Review_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great review! WA7tp looks so beautiful next to the amp. Wish the power symbol was on the power switch. Small aesthetic displeasure.
  
 For anyone interested


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.head-fi.org/t/719132/fs-eh-gold-pin-6c45-tubes-for-wooaudio-wa7


----------



## groovyd

i noticed minor burn in changes personally with the WA7.  If it is a 5 now it might get to 7 but not 10.  I think it might be somehow out of spec.  Not sure what the tolerances Woo uses on their electrical performance but if the build tolerances are any indication I would say there is a chance you got a bad unit.  Not faulting Woo here but the matching between my units was nothing like a match pairing and according to Jack they were 'still in spec.' for what it is worth... I think the WA7 may have hit a much larger audience then previous Woo products and it could be that they are falling behind in quality control trying to keep up


----------



## HiFiGuy528

A short 1ft. DC cord is now available.  
  

  

  
 A fresh batch of tubes just received our stamp of approval.  Time to send them off to patiently waiting music lovers.


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

hifiguy528 said:


> A short 1ft. DC cord is now available.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That would be me patiently waiting . If I order the 1 foot cord now can it all be included in the same shipment?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## warrenpchi

hifiguy528 said:


> A short 1ft. DC cord is now available.


 
  
 Okay, I'll admit, that looks much better than the long cable.


----------



## holeout

hifiguy528 said:


> A short 1ft. DC cord is now available.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HiFiGuy528

holeout said:


>


 
  
 mostly neater than the long DC cord.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

edmontoncanuck said:


> That would be me patiently waiting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No additional shipping cost if your has not shipped.  We will place the 1ft. cord in the box along with your WA7tp order.  Please make a note in the "message to seller" section within Pay Pal when ordering the 1ft. cord so our fulfillment personnel knows.
  
   ~ Mike Liang
  
*Like* us on Facebook *Follow* us on Twitter
*Join* us on Instagram


*Share* with us your #WooAudioStories


----------



## holeout

How do I order? Don't see it on the Woo site.


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

hifiguy528 said:


> edmontoncanuck said:
> 
> 
> > That would be me patiently waiting
> ...




Thanks Mike. Ordered, and my invoice now shows it was added to my WA7tp order.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

holeout said:


> How do I order? Don't see it on the Woo site.




Just send $45 via PayPal (if you're in the USA) and put in the notes section that you want the 1' DC cord for the WA7tp. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## JoelT

hifiguy528 said:


> A short 1ft. DC cord is now available.


 
 Looks great! Any word on when Woo Audio's choice of upgrade tube for the WA7tp will be available? I'd like to bundle a set in with the shorter cable to save on shipping if possible.


----------



## groovyd

could even be a bit shorter... would be real awesome with right angle connectors.


----------



## smellyfungus

just got my shipment notify. 

will be doing impressions with those popular Sylvania's and some IEC mullards. I'm curious about the cryo gold lions but didn't want to spend the money yet.


----------



## Bevo

smellyfungus said:


> just got my shipment notify.
> 
> will be doing impressions with those popular Sylvania's and some IEC mullards. I'm curious about the cryo gold lions but didn't want to spend the money yet.


 
 Were you a part of the first or 2nd batch? I'm still waiting on mine but i was in the 2nd batch


----------



## smellyfungus

2nd batch but still ordered same day it was announced.


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

bevo said:


> smellyfungus said:
> 
> 
> > just got my shipment notify.
> ...




I have to confess that I'm somewhat confused about how rectifier tubes whose only job is to supply DC power to the amp can affect SQ at all. I admit to being a total noob in this area but from what little I know, it sounds a little weird to me. Nevertheless, I have a matched pair of the JAN Sylvania's to try out LOL.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## groovyd

someone with proper measuring equipment or even a usb scope should tap off the cable lines and see how the different power supply signals respond to music.  Ideally you see pure unchanging DC.  Compare then the solid state vs the tube psu.  I would do it but I don't have a scope nor do I want to cut my DC cable


----------



## 18inch

if only they would make a wa7tp duo without the whole DAC , just a plain headphone amplifier, i wonder how much less it would cost...


----------



## JoelT

edmontoncanuck said:


> I have to confess that I'm somewhat confused about how rectifier tubes whose only job is to supply DC power to the amp can affect SQ at all. I admit to being a total noob in this area but from what little I know, it sounds a little weird to me. Nevertheless, I have a matched pair of the JAN Sylvania's to try out LOL.


 
 I assume you were able to sort out what was going on with your preorder?


18inch said:


> if only they would make a wa7tp duo without the whole DAC , just a plain headphone amplifier, i wonder how much less it would cost...


 
 While I know what you're saying, I suspect it wouldn't be that much of a savings, especially given that the DAC is often compared to the Audioquest Dragonfly. In other words, we're really talking about a budget DAC here. Regardless, I think the internal DAC is a selling point for someone looking to get started. It allows the purchase of the amp even if one doesn't initially have room in their budget for a good standalone DAC. I know this was the case for me at least - I've been using the internal DAC and just placed an order for a (hopefully) better DAC. Regardless, I like the idea that I an use the internal DAC if I choose to move the WA7 in to a different room as a secondary system. Pros and cons I suppose.


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

joelt said:


> I assume you were able to sort out what was going on with your preorder?


 
  
 Yes, thanks for asking. I received my shipment notification on Friday and I'm expecting FedEx to deliver it tomorrow (Tuesday). Word from Woo was that they were waiting for their shipment of 12AU7 tubes. I thought perhaps that shipping would have been on a first-come, first-serve basis according to order date but I guess that isn't the case. I'm looking forward to getting the unit tomorrow!


----------



## JoelT

Excellent news! I think you'll really enjoy it, especially with the LCD-3. Have fun.


----------



## holeout

Just received mine today   Hooked it up with my HD800 for a brief listen and I have to say it's money well spent. Key improvements (stock 12AU7, right out the box) IMO:
  
 1. Instrument separation and layering - Strings, winds, percussions... improved body and space between instruments
 2. Bass extension, control, texture - With the old PSU, the bass sounded a bit bloated (lacking definition and texture) on complex orchestrated passages; On the Tube ps, definition, texture and extension are much improved
 3. Staging - Better width and depth, more holographic with better focus
  
 Will let it run for a week and check back on the SQ, then onto tube rolling. Btw, also got 2 sets EH 6C45Pi Gold Pins I ordered delivered with the PSU. Been waiting for these a long time!


----------



## audiophile_007

Mine was supposed to be shipped around end may, when will it ship?  can't wait!


----------



## groovyd

Got my 2 sets (home and work) of 'matched' WA7+WA7tp back from Woo Friday.  Unfortunately they came missing one of the 1' DC cables I ordered but at least after me playing a bit of musical chairs between the 4 glass blocks and 4 bases and a bit of additional sanding I have converged on pairing that are now within the ballpark of looking decent side by side.
  
 Finish on the WA7tp is still a couple notches shinier then the WA7's for both pair and Woo's solution to the height differences was simply to sand down all the rubber feet on the WA7tp's a couple mm.  Apparently they used a different rubber foot between the WA7 and the WA7tp which do not line up. Most likely they use the same feet now for both units but if you have a WA7 earlier then a few months ago there is a good chance it will not match up with a new WA7tp side by side.  Would be nice to know what serial number they started using the larger feet for the WA7. 
  
 Finally, even after the sanding down of the base feet there are still height differences between the 4 units but that is now mostly to do with the glass blocks all being +- an additional mm or so in dimensions.  Of the 4 blocks one of them stands out like a sore thumb though having about triple the bevel size of the others and is even larger in width then the base by over a mm so much so that it does not sit flush with the sides of the base itself.  Still waiting on a response from Jack whether or not he will swap this odd-man-out remaining glass block but he stuck me with shipping charges and so the whole process of matching units cost me over $100. Be fore-warned if you have an early WA7 there is a good chance they will not sit right together without doing some sanding down of the WA7tp.  This was true for both units I own and they were not originally ordered together.
  
 Turn around on 'matching' was a couple weeks suffering with my T5p through a HiFiMeDiy usb dongle DAC.  Sometimes the early bird doesn't catch the worm


----------



## Bevo

Anyone heard the WA7tp with Alpha dogs? I'm waiting on my tp and kinda underwhelmed with the AD/WA7 coupling.


----------



## pragu

bevo said:


> Anyone heard the WA7tp with Alpha dogs? I'm waiting on my tp and kinda underwhelmed with the AD/WA7 coupling.


 
 What are you comparing that setup to? I haven't heard it, but as Jack often pairs the WA7 with the Alpha Dogs at trade shows I would think the synergy is pretty good! Could it be that the bass ports aren't tuned to your preference?


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> Most likely they use the same feet now for both units but if you have a WA7 earlier then a few months ago there is a good chance it will not match up with a new WA7tp side by side.  Would be nice to know what serial number they started using the larger feet for the WA7.


 
 Perhaps I missed it in an earlier posting, but could you share when you originally purchased your WA7's? My black WA7 that was built in January of this year didn't have the same matching issues. So, I suspect there were some parts adjustments along the way? Sorry to hear that the "matching" was far from perfect.


----------



## smellyfungus

anyone having issues with the tp glass slip sliding around? I put the little rubber things just like my wa7 but the glass easily moves while my wa7 glass doesn't budge.


----------



## Bevo

pragu said:


> What are you comparing that setup to? I haven't heard it, but as Jack often pairs the WA7 with the Alpha Dogs at trade shows I would think the synergy is pretty good! Could it be that the bass ports aren't tuned to your preference?



 


Well i guess i have been comparing it to my HD800 so maybe i'm not used to switching back to my AD's with its closed in sound. I'm running it with a Beresford bushmaster DAC.


----------



## groovyd

smellyfungus said:


> anyone having issues with the tp glass slip sliding around? I put the little rubber things just like my wa7 but the glass easily moves while my wa7 glass doesn't budge.


 
 yeah i have given up on those little rubber things, they are harder to keep even then the glass itself.  with or without them the glass slides easily on all 4 of my units.  I have been trying to figure out an alternative such as a o-ring to go around the sleeve around the tubes that fills the space with the holes but unfortunately the thinnes orings i could find were 1.5mm and i need about .75mm to fit right.  might try lightly sanding down the o-rings on a bar of metal. if they fit i think they would be a perfect solution since they also would not easily get lost and they would absolutely keep the glass from moving at all and at the same time be centered on the base.  Would be real nice of the holes in the glass were sized to the collars in the base.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I use glue dots they are small clear dots of glue used in scrapbooking and craft


----------



## Minh3184

Hi guys,

I've just ordered my WA7 + WA7tp wuth tube upgrade. Lead time will be approximately 4 weeks. Since a few have mentioned the finish and height of the WA7tp is different to their WA7, I'm wondering how mine will look. Will see... 

I have yet to purchase any headphones but leaning towards HD800 as some have said that WA7tp compliments the big soundstage with it airiness? So my question is can the HD800 work well with most genres when partnered with WA7+WA7tp? 

I hope this question is relevent to this thread, if not I do apologise :s

Minh


----------



## smellyfungus

I've been lazy but figured the people want to hear about tubes. I haven't done a second rotation but have tried all three pairs of tubes I have. i gave each pair a couple days of listening before evaluating. I didn't find the stock and Sylvanias much different. maybe barely smoother/detailed but no super bass like I read about. wouldn't call it an upgrade, just a low cost replacement. 

the mullards were awesome. they color slightly with some warmth which suits the he560 well. slightly more detail and smooth treble. more weight/body overall. bass has nice impact. was able to feel the music better without needing high volume. 

very satisfied with the mullards but they did cost around 70 shipped. still curious about the gold lions but they're even more expensive hope someone gets em and gives impressions.

(I know burn in time does effect tubes but the stock and Sylvania's would have to change a lot to impress. I still have the Sylvanias in so we'll see if things change)


----------



## JoelT

smellyfungus said:


> I've been lazy but figured the people want to hear about tubes. I haven't done a second rotation but have tried all three pairs of tubes I have. i gave each pair a couple days of listening before evaluating. I didn't find the stock and Sylvanias much different. maybe barely smoother/detailed but no super bass like I read about. wouldn't call it an upgrade, just a low cost replacement.
> 
> the mullards were awesome. they color slightly with some warmth which suits the he560 well. slightly more detail and smooth treble. more weight/body overall. bass has nice impact. was able to feel the music better without needing high volume.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting. I actually just spent a bit of time earlier this evening comparing the stock EH tubes with the Sylvania JAN 5814A's, and the sound signature was dramatically different. You aren't using the Sylvania 12AU7's are you?
  
 Thanks for the impressions on the Mullards. I probably will purchase a set of Gold Lion's later this weekend and should get them at some point next week. My curiosity is getting the better of me.


----------



## karzai

smellyfungus said:


> anyone having issues with the tp glass slip sliding around? I put the little rubber things just like my wa7 but the glass easily moves while my wa7 glass doesn't budge.


 

 I have one of the earliest TPs (SN041400XTP, shipped in 1st week of May), yeah, less than 10 and I don't have that much quality issues as some have reported here. Maybe I just got the perfect unit.
  
 Yeah, the glass would move quite a bit if you put too much force on it. But if you leave it on its own and place it on a fairly level surface, I don't think it would move or slide on its own. The protruded brim of the tube slot provides robust restraint for the glass from sliding or from falling over.
  
 So you don't have to worry about it. Even if you don't put the non-slip pads, the glass will be going nowhere.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Check the first full review on the new WA7d and WA7tp by Brain at Audio-Head.com
  
 http://audio-head.com/woos-newest-creation-the-wa7d-fireflies-duo/#more-2790


----------



## AnakChan

hifiguy528 said:


> Check the first full review on the new WA7d and WA7tp by Brain at Audio-Head.com
> 
> http://audio-head.com/woos-newest-creation-the-wa7d-fireflies-duo/#more-2790
> 
> [snip]



Nice write up!!


----------



## smellyfungus

joelt said:


> Interesting. I actually just spent a bit of time earlier this evening comparing the stock EH tubes with the Sylvania JAN 5814A's, and the sound signature was dramatically different. You aren't using the Sylvania 12AU7's are you?
> 
> Thanks for the impressions on the Mullards. I probably will purchase a set of Gold Lion's later this weekend and should get them at some point next week. My curiosity is getting the better of me. :rolleyes:




http://m.ebay.com/orderDetails?itemId=161276155994&txnId=1089169594006

is what I got. I'll have to give it more time then go back to stock and see if I hear a difference. I was mainly focused on the bass since that was said to be the biggest difference.


----------



## damercie

From what I could grasp, the base denomination is 12AU7. Because the tubes can be switched, the advertisements on ebay include all the derivate denominations that are compatible. Compatible, yes, but not identical. The 5814A for example is a special version, military grade that requires more power (gets hotter) than stock tube 12AU7. The more current required by the 5814A (175mA instead of 150mA) brings better dynamics. And yet, it also depends on the brand, there are many GEs on ebay but Sylvania and Telefunken seem to be the best ones (see website below). If you say that the 6189W sounds like the stock tube, they may be close in construction quality.
  
 See: http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm (Short cut and paste from the site below)
  
*12AU7 / 12AU7A:* The common USA version of this tube. RCA, GE, and Sylvania actually made most of these tubes, regardless of brand on the label.
  
*ECC82:* This is the European version of the 12AU7, and is identical to it. The brands in demand are Telefunken, Amperex, and Mullard.
  
*6189 / E82CC:* This can be both a military spec tube and a premium industrial tube. Often, the military versions will be marked 12AU7WA in addition to having 6189 etched in the glass.These are excellent step up tubes in the 12AU7 family, when you can find them! Look for super rare triple mica versions from Mazda, Siemens, and Mullard, some with silver plates. Among the best 12AU7 tubes ever made.
  
*5814:* This is a military spec tube. These are all low microphonic thanks to their rigid mica supports. Older versions have a third mica spacer near the top. These "triple mica" versions are in great demand today. These vintage tubes have just started to become a hot item, as NOS stocks of the West Europe types become harder to find. These tubes can withstand many on-off cycles and mechanical shock without a problem.
  
  
 Personally, I have been wondering about the triple mica version of the Sylvania 5814A. But I am not willing to pay $100+ on the pair so the base Sylvania 5814A will have to do (ebay, yeah me too). However, if you guys got any of the triple mica Sylvania 5814A to test with the wa7tp, please, leave a comment about your impressions.
  
 Cheers,
  
 Note: I think finding the best pairing (<5% matching or grade "platinum" by some ebay sellers) will have a profound effect on the sound quality. I read that the major issue with the wa7 could be a mismatched in stereo channel or tubes. Sure, it may not be related with the PSU but I am a perfectionist anyway.


----------



## karzai

Hi guys,
  
 My WA7tp died on me yesterday and I was really crushed like what someone feels when a child does not open his eyes after shaking him to wake up. It was really heartbreaking.
  
 I tried every possible solution within the realm of what I am allowed to do to make it work again like replacing the fuse and replacing the power cable. I have not moved them before they failed to work so I know the interconnects were fine.
  
 After exhausting the last possible solution and not seeing them light up is disheartening. I just stared there thinking what it was that I ever did wrong: I have kept them some distance away from other heat sources to give them enough  space to breathe. The AC was open 24/7. I have not used them for more than 3 hours in any one session. And I have not used them for more than 40 hours since I got them
  
 I emailed jack about it and he told me that the spare fuse could also be faulty. I told him that I would look for a fuse in the market today and report back any development.
  
 Has any of you guys had the same problem? I do hope that it's only the fuse. Since we are already in the child analogy, I don't want to send it for repairs because it feels like I would be sending a child to surgery and return as handicap, never whole again.


----------



## docBliny

karzai said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> My WA7tp died on me yesterday and I was really crushed like what someone feels when a child does not open his eyes after shaking him to wake up. It was really heartbreaking.
> 
> ...




I'm going to go on a limb based on what I've read about the WA7 and ask if you've made sure the main WA7 is switched on? I've read that the power supply won't turn on at all if the WA7 isn't on. Fingers crossed that the power switch on it just got knocked into the off position and that's all there is to it!

//TB


----------



## karzai

docbliny said:


> I'm going to go on a limb based on what I've read about the WA7 and ask if you've made sure the main WA7 is switched on? I've read that the power supply won't turn on at all if the WA7 isn't on. Fingers crossed that the power switch on it just got knocked into the off position and that's all there is to it!
> 
> //TB


 

 Yes I did check that although I have been using it for some days without problems and I was certain nobody else touched the it.
  
 Turns out I was just extremely unlucky because the spare fuse that came along with the WA7tp was defective. For high quality fuses like this, the quality control reliability would be around 99.95%. And for me to have received a defective unit is something we can call a stroke of unluck. What are the odds really? I hope they check the fuse next time if it works because it's so hard to look for a fuse that is not normally used in everyday appliances.


----------



## groovyd

I don't remember even getting a spare fuse with mine... is it in the fuse box or something?
  
 I am still waiting on 1 of the 2 short DC power cords I ordered.  Seems they forgot to throw one in the box.


----------



## karzai

groovyd said:


> I don't remember even getting a spare fuse with mine... is it in the fuse box or something?
> 
> I am still waiting on 1 of the 2 short DC power cords I ordered.  Seems they forgot to throw one in the box.


 
 Yes , it is there. In the back of WA7tp, just below the socket, there is a small compartment that houses both the spare and the active fuse. You're so lucky you got a good unit.


----------



## holeout

Just put in a set of Sylvania Gold Brand 5814A in the WA7tp. Much better separation, timbre and density with a more holographic soundstage than stock tubes. Sounded awesome with my HD800 that I didn't want to take them off.


----------



## JoelT

holeout said:


> Just put in a set of Sylvania Gold Brand 5814A in the WA7tp. Much better separation, timbre and density with a more holographic soundstage than stock tubes. Sounded awesome with my HD800 that I didn't want to take them off.


 
 Very cool.  Does the HD800 pair well with the WA7/WA7tp? I've been contemplating the HD800 vs. the LCD-X as my next headphone purchase, but am a bit concerned with how demanding the HD800 is of upstream gear. Regardless, I'm thinking the HD800 may be a better purchase, as I already have LCD-2's, which I love with electronica.


----------



## holeout

IMO, HD800 pairs really well with the WA7 + Tp. With the SS psu, the bass and soundstage felt a bit congested. The tube power supply opens everything up with better separation and details. I prefer the HD800 pairing over the LCD X at this moment as it sounded more coherent to me. Will compare again when I get some more tubes to roll.


----------



## groovyd

karzai said:


> Yes , it is there. In the back of WA7tp, just below the socket, there is a small compartment that houses both the spare and the active fuse. You're so lucky you got a good unit.


 
  
 haha, funny you mention that... actually my tubes went bad a month after getting mine and they were then considered out of warrantee.


----------



## karzai

groovyd said:


> haha, funny you mention that... actually my tubes went bad a month after getting mine and they were then considered out of warrantee.


 

 Would you advise to using the tubes as sparingly as possible in order to prolong their shelf life? Which tubes busted out first, the tp's or the amp's?


----------



## groovyd

karzai said:


> Would you advise to using the tubes as sparingly as possible in order to prolong their shelf life? Which tubes busted out first, the tp's or the amp's?


 
  
 The amp original EH golds busted out first.  It shocked me enough to purchase a lifetime supply since they are end of life components.  Apparently tubes do have a lifetime rating in hours of use and not necessarily shelf life hours.  I do not have enough true experience with tubes to be able to tell you really how it goes but if you enjoy the sound I would recommend thinking ahead on what could happen and preparing for that considering some of these tubes are getting more and more rare every day.
  
 Of course who knows, maybe the tubes are the most durable components in these units and I just got unlucky...
  
 I would love to see what is inside these units.  Surprised no one has opened one up after all this time.


----------



## damercie

+1 for stock pilling. Shame I am broke this month.

Although, it would be nice to have a business case to remanufacture these tubes. We could introduce some of these sweet new technologies in material enrichment for the internal parts, glass strength and vacuum seals. Way to get the ultimate pure sound.

By the way, I received a tip from a good friend on how to increase the lifetime of the tubes. He suggested to avoid touching the tubes directly when manipulating them. The deposit of human grease combined with the heat from the tubes during use apparently can weaken the glass and reduce the tube lifetime. He suggested at best to use silicon gloves (also take care of statics ???) or at worst use a simple napkin (the way I do).

Cheers,


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

damercie said:


> By the way, I received a tip from a good friend on how to increase the lifetime of the tubes. He suggested to avoid touching the tubes directly when manipulating them. The deposit of human grease combined with the heat from the tubes during use apparently can weaken the glass and reduce the tube lifetime. He suggested at best to use silicon gloves (also take care of statics ???) or at worst use a simple napkin (the way I do).
> 
> Cheers,





I used the small glass block cleaning cloth that Woo shipped with the WA7/WA7tp to hold the tubes while inserting them into their respective units 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## HiFiGuy528

karzai said:


> Yes , it is there. In the back of WA7tp, just below the socket, there is a small compartment that houses both the spare and the active fuse. You're so lucky you got a good unit.


 
  
 correct!


----------



## Bevo

Just got my TP today. Listened to it for about 15 mintes before having to leave. Came back after watching the footy, turned it on again and the fuse blows... Not happy


----------



## Dogmatrix

I have had my TP for a couple of days all good so far
 Cosmetic match is very good I have one of the first thirty WA7's in black , there is a slight difference in the finish  if you look really close and I had to buy a clear glass as I had the smoked version
 Sound is also very good I think it is a clear upgrade with stronger dynamic and stage on my HE500 , I will switch to the HD800 later this week
 I will stick with the stock tubes for ten days then roll in some RCA clear tops


----------



## groovyd

wouldn't expect black to have the finish issues like the silver.  seems to be shiny more metallic vs duller matte grey.


----------



## Carmantom

Curiously, when did you order yours? Are they still about 2-3 weeks out?


----------



## s2kong

I still haven't received mine and I ordered at the beginning of May...


----------



## Carmantom

Yikes!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I love these guys and their products.  I have order several items in the past.  Got to admit though, Take the money 1st and wait 6 week+ is quite a lot.  I like the idea of building 1st then taking the $$$s.  It certainly will get a home if someones cancels after ordering.  Once again, great guys, Jacks the best, but maybe a few more guys building would get us customers a little more happy.


----------



## karzai

bevo said:


> Just got my TP today. Listened to it for about 15 mintes before having to leave. Came back after watching the footy, turned it on again and the fuse blows... Not happy


 

 Are the mains voltage in Australia happen to be 220V? If it is, I would assume WA7tp does not work quite as efficiently as if it were under 110V. I used mine for about 30 hours and and no single listening session exceeded two hours because it got alarmingly hot. Next day the fuse blew up. I haven't used it since because I could not find a 200mA fuse.
  
 I'm thinking of selling it but it's hard to let go of something so beautiful.


----------



## s2kong

Yea.. I sent an email at the end of May and they said it was shipping middle of June. Just sent an email yesterday but no response yet. I did ask to cancel and get a refund at this point but we will see...


----------



## groovyd

ah then, you still got a few months to wait... just hope the fuse doesn't blow as soon as you get it


----------



## Dogmatrix

I ordered April 22, delivery June 16 it is worth waiting for
 Running on 250v measured at the wall no problem so far
 TP is running around 5C above amp temp after 3 hours stock tubes
 HD800 sound is perfect


----------



## Carmantom

Tell us how that works out for you.


----------



## groovyd

both of my tp run way hotter then the amp... base is easily twice as hot.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I have a low ambient as it is approaching winter down here
 Measured with IR thermometer ambient 18c WA7 31c TP 36c
 I would expect temps considerably higher as ambient rises but the difference between amp and ps should remain around 15%
 My LaFigaro has been running around 60-80c for three years without problems
 Most caps are rated to 85c so high temp alone should not cause failures
 All those with fuse issues have my sympathy, hope it doesn't turn into an epidemic


----------



## Bevo

karzai said:


> Are the mains voltage in Australia happen to be 220V? If it is, I would assume WA7tp does not work quite as efficiently as if it were under 110V. I used mine for about 30 hours and and no single listening session exceeded two hours because it got alarmingly hot. Next day the fuse blew up. I haven't used it since because I could not find a 200mA fuse.
> 
> I'm thinking of selling it but it's hard to let go of something so beautiful.



 


Yeah Australia use 230v mains. I don't think i could part with the pair though becasue they sit so nicely on my desk (even though the glass is mismatched)! Hopefully replacing the fuse will solve this problem once and for all. I also leave my wa7 power switch on at all times and just press the TP's power button to turn the system off. Hope that doesnt cause any issues. 

I've also noticed that turning the TP on will result in a bright flash coming from somewhere on the back of the power supply, possibly from the fuse. Does anyone else experience this?

Overall, i found that the soundstage and clarity of my HD800's has improved noticeably so money well spent i guess. Can't wait to roll some tubes to possibly bring out the bottom end a bit more.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Switched on this evening paying close attention to the fuse area and no flash or light
 Sounds like you have a momentary arc Bevo make sure the clips holding the fuse are clean and tight
 Something I discovered this evening while playing with my ir thermometer, although the body of the TP is hotter the tops of the tubes measured 43c compared to 77c on the amp


----------



## Denon Frank

s2kong said:


> I still haven't received mine and I ordered at the beginning of May...


 

 Placed my order on May 3rd.  Just sent an e-mail requesting an update. 
  
 On another note: you guys that have blown fuses, are you using the new short cord or the original one from the amp?


----------



## esimms86

I wonder if anyone has considered swapping the fuse for a higher end HiFi Tuning fuse.
  
 Esau


----------



## karzai

denon frank said:


> Placed my order on May 3rd.  Just sent an e-mail requesting an update.
> 
> On another note: you guys that have blown fuses, are you using the new short cord or the original one from the amp?


 

 Long one. I got my TP in the middle of May, about 2 weeks before the short cord came out.
  
 I'm sorry that you still did not receive yours. I placed and paid my order on April 2 and the unit got delivered on May 22. 
  
 Maybe they are doing more quality checks and tweaks based on the early bird feedbacks.


----------



## Denon Frank

karzai said:


> Long one. I got my TP in the middle of May, about 2 weeks before the short cord came out.
> 
> I'm sorry that you still did not receive yours. I placed and paid my order on April 2 and the unit got delivered on May 22.
> 
> Maybe they are doing more quality checks and tweaks based on the early bird feedbacks.




Well I just got a reply from Mike Liang. Said they had some production delays so you might be right. Should ship within 10 days 

Anyone blow a fuse with the short cord. Looking for a pattern.


----------



## frankrondaniel

Placed my order on 5/15 but haven't heard anything about delivery yet.  I'm hoping that if there are some issues with the PSU that they're taking their time to address them.  I'd rather wait a while longer if it meant getting a better/more reliable unit.


----------



## groovyd

dogmatrix said:


> Switched on this evening paying close attention to the fuse area and no flash or light
> Sounds like you have a momentary arc Bevo make sure the clips holding the fuse are clean and tight
> Something I discovered this evening while playing with my ir thermometer, although the body of the TP is hotter the tops of the tubes measured 43c compared to 77c on the amp


 
 Same... The tp tubes themselves stay actually very cool relative to the amp tubes but the base is easily twice as hot.  Ordered a fluke laser temp probe to take some measurements.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We ran into some production delays recently, but the good news is we’re back online at full speed.  It was difficult for us to hold shipping on so many orders, but we felt that it was the right thing to do.  Everything we make has to meet or exceed out strict quality control before it goes out to you, the customer.  Please accept our sincere apology for the delay.
  
   Our QC team had to double down on the Red Bull in their coffee to stay sharp.


----------



## damercie

That is what happens when a great product hits the market. I think that we as wa7 owners are fortunate, we already have the base, we are just waiting for the sweet addition. And I agree, I don't mind the wait for getting the best quality build. As an Australian, I just hope the fuse thingy will be cared for. 

P.S.: Go easy on the Red bull and the coffee, Mike, make sure they also have some regular sleep too. I tried doing precision work at 2:00 am, vision blurry, coffee would not work, no matter the quantity ... not good, bad memories.

Cheers,


----------



## groovyd

too bad they didn't double down on their red bull before shipping mine out... it cost me an extra 150 and a month of shipping back and forth to finally get a set that looks ok side by side.  in my opinion woo should have picked up the shipping tab on that process.  i am just glad so far they have not had the fuse issues some of the others have had.  i am guessing that has to do with the higher voltage 220 mode.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

bevo said:


> karzai said:
> 
> 
> > Are the mains voltage in Australia happen to be 220V? If it is, I would assume WA7tp does not work quite as efficiently as if it were under 110V. I used mine for about 30 hours and and no single listening session exceeded two hours because it got alarmingly hot. Next day the fuse blew up. I haven't used it since because I could not find a 200mA fuse.
> ...


 
  
 Just want to let everyone know that we have identified the cause of the blown fuse issue.  It turned out to be a bad batch of fuses (110v models NOT effected).  We do have replacement fuse for effected customers at no charge.  If you purchased a replacement fuse on your own, we will reimburse you the cost of the fuse (with receipt).  Please send email to info@wooaudio.com for replacement fuse or reimbursement.  We apologize for the inconvenience.  
  
 The positive side to this (if there is one) is that the circuit protection system we implemented in the amplifier is working as designed.  It blew the fuse and not the amp.


----------



## CongeeBear

Received my WA7tp + WA7d combo well over a week ago, but didn't have time to set them up until this past weekend. Unpacking the two proved to be a nerve-wracking experience based on some of the reports I've read regarding build issues (groovyd's harrowing tale in particular).
  
 Thankfully, the units look beautiful, and for once I'm spared the pain of endlessly exchanging countless units of the same item (unlike my unfortunate iMac debacle of 2013)! Of course, I ordered the WA7d rather than dealing with a probable mismatch in silver finish between my original WA7 and the WA7tp. Hopefully, the optical input will come in handy one day (I'm looking at you, white PS4)
  
 And it's pretty minor, but I was bummed to see that the gold lion tubes didn't come in their original packaging, and came instead in a couple of woo-branded boxes.
  
 Anyhow, if anyone's on the fence about ordering these to avoid "revision A" issues, I'd say it's safe to go ahead now!


----------



## groovyd

Buying the 'd' together at the same time as the 'tp' was a good decision.  Very little mismatch risk anymore I would say especially since they are on the guard about these issues after having to deal with my situation.  I took one for the team on this one that's for sure... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Got my Fluke 62 MAX+ and now I just need to figure out how to use it to accurately measure temperature.  Something I was unaware of is you need to set an 'emissivity' depending on the material being measured but as I see in Fluke's emissivity table there is a huge range of values for aluminum and even a value for surfaces painted metallic which i am guessing this is since both units have different finishes.  Anyone care to point out the correct emissivity to use for these measurements?
  
 http://www.frigidn.com/resources/EmissivityTable.pdf


----------



## JoelT

congeebear said:


> And it's pretty minor, but I was bummed to see that the gold lion tubes didn't come in their original packaging, and came instead in a couple of woo-branded boxes.


 
  
 Wait. What? When did Woo start offering Gold Lion's? Are you actually referring to the Electro Harmonix Gold Pin's?


----------



## CongeeBear

joelt said:


> Wait. What? When did Woo start offering Gold Lion's? Are you actually referring to the Electro Harmonix Gold Pin's?


 
  
 Lol, nice catch.  Got the two mixed up


----------



## Dogmatrix

Added a small step down transformer , felt the voltage was a little hot at 247v now measures 227v
 Can't detect any change in sq and the pair are running cooler amp 30c tps 33c
 Swapped back to HE500 what it losses in sound stage to the HD800 it makes up in midrange timbre
 Think I might roll in a pair of GE 5814 see if they give similar improvement to Sylvania 5814 as reported


----------



## Bevo

So the flash coming from my TP is actually from one of the tubes. The 2nd fuse i have used has also blown as well. I've spoken to Mike and Jack and they've decided to get me to send the unit back to the US for repairs. Very frustrating


----------



## Dogmatrix

Rolled in the GE 5814a last night
 Quite a big change from the stock tubes, bass is boosted will need more time to comment on quality
 Mid range seems more euphonic but less forward , probably a side effect of the boosted bass again more time
 Treble like the mid range less forward
 Not sure I like the GE it gives the WA7 quite a dark character with the HE500
 I will try the HD800 this evening and see if it suits better
 Temperature wise the amp is unchanged and the TP is around 2 degrees warmer so not really a significant change


----------



## mattelka

I got my WA7tp about 2 weeks ago and it is working fine without any of the negative issues highlighted by others previously. I am not really that good at describing what has improved in terms of sound but to put simply, everything seems more defined now. I would really hate to think that this is just a placebo or halo effect, but I am really liking more of what I am hearing recently (Honestly I was a little skeptical about what a different power source could do in the first place, despite taking the plunge.).
  
 For reference sake, I listen mainly through my T1 (and also my recently acquired LCD-3 Fazor Revision) from either AIFF files or direct from CDs through my Macbook Pro/Musical Fidelity M1CDT/Musical Fidelity M1SDAC combination hooked up to the WA7. I tend to bypass the DAC function of the WA7 using mainly the M1SDAC for the conversion, as a preference.
  
 If this was a conspiracy by Woo Audio to milk the WA7's popularity, I am happily buying into it.


----------



## s2kong

Got a confirmation email that the unit is shipped so definitely happy about that. Hoping that the unit is trouble free. Will update people with impressions when it arrives.


----------



## frankrondaniel

s2kong said:


> Got a confirmation email that the unit is shipped so definitely happy about that. Hoping that the unit is trouble free. Will update people with impressions when it arrives.


 
  
 Just got my confirmation as well!


----------



## Dogmatrix

Bad news is the GE5814 didn't go with the HD800 either , strangely it was too bright this time
 Good news is the WA7 clearly reacts to different rectifier tubes so , rolling is definitely on
 Out with the GE in with a pair of AWV 12au7 made in Australia and more bad news , white flash on power up
 Yes the reaper is coming for my tubes , I let them warm up and had a quick listen they sounded great
 Not being a natural risk taker I shut everything down after a few minutes as I believe that the momentary arc will at some point possibly become a full short
 I will go back to the stock tubes this evening as I know they are good , just to make sure the problem was with the new tube


----------



## Carmantom

Curiously, when did you order?


----------



## frankrondaniel

dogmatrix said:


> Bad news is the GE5814 didn't go with the HD800 either , strangely it was too bright this time
> Good news is the WA7 clearly reacts to different rectifier tubes so , rolling is definitely on
> Out with the GE in with a pair of AWV 12au7 made in Australia and more bad news , white flash on power up
> Yes the reaper is coming for my tubes , I let them warm up and had a quick listen they sounded great
> ...


 
  
 Bummer!  I ordered a set of Sylvania JAN 5814A in anticipation of getting my WA7Tp.  Hopefully it wasn't a waste.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I have a pair of Sylvania 5814 and I suspect they will behave differently to the GE tubes I will try them next
 The GE I have were the cheapest grey plate two mica type so the GE black plate triple mica may be better
 I need to go back to the stock tubes for tonight's session to make sure the arc was not a fault with the TP


----------



## frankrondaniel

dogmatrix said:


> I have a pair of Sylvania 5814 and I suspect they will behave differently to the GE tubes I will try them next
> The GE I have were the cheapest grey plate two mica type so the GE black plate triple mica may be better
> I need to go back to the stock tubes for tonight's session to make sure the arc was not a fault with the TP


 
  
 Hopefully it's not the TP!  Seems like too many issues reported so far.
 But I'm definitely interested to hear about how the Sylvania's work for you if the TP's still working.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Fingers crossed , but I am 90% it is one of the tubes 
 An arc like that is quite common in a tube rectifier it could work normally for ages or it could short out and melt down next time I switch on
 Safest just to pull the tubes and start again
 I don't think it has been too bad for a new product release
 There were the early cosmetic issues and the fuse thing both of which seem to have been addressed
 Only a couple of people have been unfortunate enough to need a return


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

I've been listening to the Sylvania JAN's since getting my WA7tp 2 months ago and I love the sound I'm getting. I never even tried the stock tubes...I put the JAN's in straight away. Really warm bass and creamy mids. 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## frankrondaniel

edmontoncanuck said:


> I've been listening to the Sylvania JAN's since getting my WA7tp 2 months ago and I love the sound I'm getting. I never even tried the stock tubes...I put the JAN's in straight away. Really warm bass and creamy mids.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


 
  
 That sounds good - thanks for the feedback!  I'll probably try the stock tubes first if only for comparison sake.


----------



## Dogmatrix

All is well, stock tubes in no sign of arcing
 I think this may be a common problem with rollers as I suspect the offending tube would still test good
 Anyway, on to Sylvania this evening see if I can replicate the positive results


----------



## Dogmatrix

3 hours in on the Sylvania 5814a and I am sold it's all true strong clean bass classic tube mid-range sparkly treble
 I was a little concerned as I have the domestic version with yellow Sylvania logo not the JAN version
 Construction looked identical to the military type from pictures and they were a very strong closely matched pair
 Definitely a must have for all WA7tp owners a clear upgrade over the stock tubes


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

frankrondaniel said:


> edmontoncanuck said:
> 
> 
> > I've been listening to the Sylvania JAN's since getting my WA7tp 2 months ago and I love the sound I'm getting. I never even tried the stock tubes...I put the JAN's in straight away. Really warm bass and creamy mids.
> ...




Don't get me wrong. I'm a complete noob to this whole tube thing. I still don't understand how rectifier tubes can affect audio signature at all. I'm still in the "it's all snake oil to me". But I had the Sylvania JAN's and I put them in and I loved how it all sounds so I'm done with trying to find something else. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe technically it didn't make a sniff of a difference, but I'm happy with what I have. 
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## s2kong

Finally received the WA7/WA7tp. Wasn't able to listen to it that long since I got it at work right before the long holiday weekend. 

Quick impressions over my Schitt Asgard 1/Bifrost is that the bass is much deeper and the soundstage opened up a bit. 

I'll try to give further impressions when I get more time with it next week


----------



## frankrondaniel

Finally had a chance to set up my WA7tp using stock 12AU7 tubes.  Like the poster above, my immediate impression (using HD800) is that the sound stage has opened and there's greater separation.  However, this seems to come at the expense (to me) of a brighter sound and less bass.  I have a set of Sylvania JAN 5814A that I want to eventually try out but for now I want to see what changes occur, if any, with burn-in.  It amazes me though that a change in the PSU could result in such a noticeable change in the sound.


----------



## Aaranu

I also received my wa7tp and after hooking it all up, it appears it might be DOA. Nothing happens at all.. I'm assuming all you have to do is click the button in. Very depressing  

 EDIT - tried it with old psu and that is working fine.. 
 Second edit - Im an idiot lol, didnt have the actual unit turned on! All good!, sorry woo audio for blaming you guys!


----------



## damercie

I got mine today. Sounds great with the Sylvania 5814A. What an addition to the wa7! If I had to make a critic, I would have harden the feedback of the on/off button and prevented rotation.

Overall great job Woo for this fantastic PSU for the wa7.


Edit: The 1' cord is a great add.


----------



## frankrondaniel

damercie said:


> I got mine today. Sounds great with the Sylvania 5814A. What an addition to the wa7! If I had to make a critic, I would have harden the feedback of the on/off button and prevented rotation.
> 
> Overall great job Woo for this fantastic PSU for the wa7.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Sylvania 5814A keeps getting good feedback - I get the feeling that I should go straight to it rather than to give the stock tubes a chance!  Agree with you on the on/off button and the shorter cord as well.


----------



## JoelT

frankrondaniel said:


> The Sylvania 5814A keeps getting good feedback - I get the feeling that I should go straight to it rather than to give the stock tubes a chance!  Agree with you on the on/off button and the shorter cord as well.


 
 I would still recommend listening to the stock tubes, if only to gain an understanding of how the sound is changed. Personally, I found it enjoyable to investigate, but maybe that's just me. It also gave me a greater appreciation of the direction that the JAN 5814A's took the sound.


----------



## Denon Frank

joelt said:


> I would still recommend listening to the stock tubes, if only to gain an understanding of how the sound is changed. Personally, I found it enjoyable to investigate, but maybe that's just me. It also gave me a greater appreciation of the direction that the JAN 5814A's took the sound.
> [/quote
> 
> How much time do you think is needed to consider the stock tubes burned in? Curious as I have a set of sylvania's waiting in the wings


----------



## JoelT

denon frank said:


> > How much time do you think is needed to consider the stock tubes burned in? Curious as I have a set of sylvania's waiting in the wings


 
 20hrs minimum seems to be a fairly accepted number. If you'd prefer to just use the Sylvania JAN 5814A's, by all means go for it. I just think it's nice get a sense of how they differ. Enjoy!


----------



## Denon Frank

joelt said:


> 20hrs minimum seems to be a fairly accepted number. If you'd prefer to just use the Sylvania JAN 5814A's, by all means go for it. I just think it's get a sense of how they differ. Enjoy!




I'm in no hurry. I have about 10 hrs on the stock ones. Just trying to digest all this tube rolling dynamics as I new to the game. Thanks for the info.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

It's gonna be a busy weekend


----------



## Carmantom

Great!  Glad to see you guys are catching up.  My WA7P will arrive Monday.  I am going to take day off to await Fedex.  I'm 1/2 retired and self employed, so since I'm the boss I can do it.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

carmantom said:


> Great!  Glad to see you guys are catching up.  My WA7P will arrive Monday.  I am going to take day off to await Fedex.  I'm 1/2 retired and self employed, so since I'm the boss I can do it.


 
  
 That's great news!  Pls. keep us posted on your impressions.  We would love some pics too.


----------



## desertblues

Received my WA7tp on 7/8 (ordered 5/23) and after only a few hours of listening I can say it was worth the wait! I am using Grado PS500, RS1 and Beyer T1. First up was the PS500 and the improvement was immediately evident. So far I am pleasantly surprised at the difference with this power supply, will be back with further impressions after some more burning in (using stock tubes for now but I have others). Nice job Woo Audio!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

desertblues said:


> Received my WA7tp on 7/8 (ordered 5/23) and after only a few hours of listening I can say it was worth the wait! I am using Grado PS500, RS1 and Beyer T1. First up was the PS500 and the improvement was immediately evident. So far I am pleasantly surprised at the difference with this power supply, will be back with further impressions after some more burning in (using stock tubes for now but I have others). Nice job Woo Audio!


 
  
 Thank you for the initial impressions.  We would love to see a pic or two as well.


----------



## mootang

Mine arrive yesterday and there was an immediate difference with the hd800 paired up with the jds lab ODAC. 

Crispier, better bass and mid low, mid high and treble sparkles. No harsh brightness whatsoever. Separation is a ton better too.

the wa7tp is a must have pairing. Very satisfied.

i used the tp stock tubes and the upgrades gold tubes forthe wa7


----------



## frankrondaniel

mootang said:


> Mine arrive yesterday and there was an immediate difference with the hd800 paired up with the jds lab ODAC.
> 
> Crispier, better bass and mid low, mid high and treble sparkles. No harsh brightness whatsoever. Separation is a ton better too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's the combination that I'm listening to at the moment, fed by my Hugo, using the upgraded gold tubes on the WA7 and Sylvania JAN 5814A tubes in the TP.   I agree with everything you've said in regards to sound of both the SS PSU and the TP with the stock tubes.  Hard to believe that a change in the PSU - and tubes used with the PSU - can make that much of a difference.  I am a little bit sensitive to brightness though and I do experience a little with this setup but nothing that could be characterized as harsh.  I think it's more the HD800's than anything else.


----------



## mootang

Wa7tp getting REALLY hot after 3 hrs of listening with the sylvania jan 5814A, anyone experience this? If feels like it's 90 degrees celsius although it's probably somewhere betwee 75 and 85


----------



## JoelT

mootang said:


> Wa7tp getting REALLY hot after 3 hrs of listening with the sylvania jan 5814A, anyone experience this? If feels like it's 90 degrees celsius although it's probably somewhere betwee 75 and 85


 
 Yeah. Mine gets pretty hot as well with the same tubes, though I've never found it to be a problem.


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

joelt said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by mootang Wa7tp getting REALLY hot after 3 hrs of listening with the sylvania jan 5814A, anyone experience this? If feels like it's 90 degrees celsius although it's probably somewhere betwee 75 and 85Yeah. Mine gets pretty hot as well with the same tubes, though I've never found it to be a problem.




Same here. Mine is a tad warm with the JAN's but nothing I'm overly concerned about.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## frankrondaniel

mootang said:


> Wa7tp getting REALLY hot after 3 hrs of listening with the sylvania jan 5814A, anyone experience this? If feels like it's 90 degrees celsius although it's probably somewhere betwee 75 and 85


 
  
 Mine as well though it doesn't seem to be an issue so far.


----------



## mootang

posting a picture for my setup at home:


----------



## frankrondaniel

Except for the color we have the same setup!  Hugo pairs nicely.


----------



## groovyd

got a couple 'strong' matched sylvanias off ebay for cheap and swapped them in.  they have a strange burnt looking mark on their tops.  powered up and about 5 seconds later one of them flashed white bright like something just blew but the red heater is still going and it is powering the WA7 fine it seems.  not sure if that is a glitch to be worried about or not.  sound is about the same as the original tubes, perhaps a little punchier.  tubes glow brighter, little nervous to touch anything to turn it off haha... would be nice if there was a probe point somewhere to measure the voltages being put out to the WA7 so i know im not overdriving anything.


----------



## Bevo

I had that in one of the tubes Woo supplied. Ended up having to send the unit back to the US for them to check everything over due to it blowing fuses. I believe it is just an arcing tube and shouldnt be much of a problem. I ended up having to change the the 200mA to 500mA slow blow fuses to stop them from blowing every day even after it was returned by Woo.


----------



## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> got a couple 'strong' matched sylvanias off ebay for cheap and swapped them in.  they have a strange burnt looking mark on their tops.  powered up and about 5 seconds later one of them flashed white bright like something just blew but the red heater is still going and it is powering the WA7 fine it seems.  not sure if that is a glitch to be worried about or not.  sound is about the same as the original tubes, perhaps a little punchier.  tubes glow brighter, little nervous to touch anything to turn it off haha... would be nice if there was a probe point somewhere to measure the voltages being put out to the WA7 so i know im not overdriving anything.


 

 Personally I don't trust arcing tubes , some say they will be fine others say it is a shure sign of imminent failure
 From research I did when one of mine flashed it seems the more a tube arcs the more likely it is to arc as each time it flashes some of the cathode coating (designed among other things to limit arcing) burns away
 All this would be no more than a curiosity but an arc often becomes a dead short which can do serious damage


----------



## LemSkee

*Two Cents from a Noooob...*
  
 Received my WA7tp about 3 weeks ago, but waited on posting this to ensure enough time had elapsed before I offered my opinion.
  
 As a new Woo Audio customer, I must say I’m pleasantly surprised with the quality of their workmanship and the difference the TP makes is quite noticeable.  Forgive me if I do not yet know all the cool lingo, slang, and idioms that provide the _audiophileism_ factor to gear descriptions and reviews, but I’ll try my best (SMILE).
  
 Let’s start with “the bad”… For as much praise that I give to the aesthetics of both the WA7 and WA7tp, I am admittedly disappointed with the TP’s push button, which almost seemed to be an insult to such an exquisitely built unit.  When I received my WA7, it felt and looked like a piece of art to me, from any direction, and turning its buttery-smooth knob solidified that impression.  The WA7tp’s power button (in contrast) does not feel stable, unnecessarily turns, and overall detracts from an otherwise flawless design.  I can definitely see Woo addressing this following their next revision.
  
 Upon unpacking, setting up, and turning on the TP for the first time, one of the tubes [stock pair] (like others have described) created a bright white flash – is this arcing?  Being new to tubes in general, it made me nervous especially considering how much money had been poured into the WA7 + WA7tp system.  After about a 15 minute warm up, I elected to proceed with a listening session and my frown began to quickly turn upside down.  Quick note, I run HD800 cans and EH Gold upgrade tubes on the WA7, set to LO-Z, and use the WA7’s DAC via USB .   I listen to just about everything except metal and country.
  
 Yay!  That’s the only “bad” I’ve got, all the rest is pure joy…
  
 Here’s the best way I can describe the transitions I’ve noticed with the changes made up to this point:
  

The EH Gold tubes on the WA7 added a tightness to bass, more defined mids, improved (IMO) soundstage, but also a tad more sparkle – something that bothered me a bit on an already bright pair of cans.
The WA7tp (with stock tubes) made the bass appear to be even tighter, mids sound more pronounced, and the biggest surprise was how it shaved off the top end sparkle just enough to truly allow me to fall in love with HD800s.  Loving the improvements thus far, I was eager to see what additional burn in time would give me on the stock tubes.  But I have no patience, so….
Enter the Sylvania JAN 5814A (110/110 | 110/110) tubes.  As another Head-Fier stated in so many words, these tubes just make everything better, and it’s the truth.  I think, generally speaking, HD800 owners tend to want a bit more bass for our beloved cans, and I was shocked with the results from rolling in these tubes.  I get all of the clean, tight, and accurate bass from the previous upgrades, but more of it – and not in an obnoxious way at all.  I even had to check my EQ to make sure everything was still flat when I started listening.  The low end goodness was first evident when _I’m Trippin by Millok_ came across my track list.  I did, however, notice an increase in brightness / sparkle which I wasn’t overly happy about (at first) – but considering the improvements in every other category this was a small price to pay.  In a perfect world, I’d take everything the Sylvanias gave me with the “top end refinement” of the stock TP tubes – but bear in mind, this is just my own personal preference.  I also don’t get bright white flashes with these tubes and have more than 90 hours on them as of this post (the cans were previously burned in with 80+ hours of pink noise).
  
 Loving the HD800s has been quite a journey for me, an acquired taste if you will.  Seemingly each element changed in the system has been a clear improvement – the EH Gold tubes, then the WA7tp, and finally the Sylvania tube swap.  That additional sparkle I mentioned earlier is somehow getting smoothed out with each passing day and listening session – call it placebo, call it auditory adaptation, or call it what I do: A surprisingly delightful combination of components all working together symbiotically to deliver some of the best musicality you’ll probably get in this price range…
  
_Oh, one other side note:_ I (luckily) did not experience any of the color differences or height variances between my WA7 and WA7tp (silver finish).  Also, if you want to keep that dead silent, pitch black background, be sure to separate your two units at least 8+ inches apart or be prepared to hear buzzing in your cans.
  
 Apologies for such a long-winded post (especially from nooobish material like myself).  Happy hunting fellow head-fiers!


----------



## olegausany

You should use Hi-z with HD800 cause they are high impedance headphones


----------



## LemSkee

olegausany said:


> You should use Hi-z with HD800 cause they are high impedance headphones


 
  
 I've actually gone back and forth on this one and understand where you're coming from.  However, after many many hours of listening, for me at least, Lo-Z provides more refined, less "distorted", cleaner sound.  I may have to turn the knob just a tad more to the right, but feel the reward exceeds this minor necessity.  If I'm not mistaken, I believe this was Warren's impression as well between Hi and Lo-Z settings.  Also, this was my experience with the HD800s and cannot say what the case would be with, for example, some power hungry HiFiMans.


----------



## Dogmatrix

lemskee said:


> I've actually gone back and forth on this one and understand where you're coming from.  However, after many many hours of listening, for me at least, Lo-Z provides more refined, less "distorted", cleaner sound.  I may have to turn the knob just a tad more to the right, but feel the reward exceeds this minor necessity.  If I'm not mistaken, I believe this was Warren's impression as well between Hi and Lo-Z settings.  Also, this was my experience with the HD800s and cannot say what the case would be with, for example, some power hungry HiFiMans.


 

 Thanks for you're 2 cents, very well composed for a "noob"
 I also run my HD800 on lo-Z and use the on-board dac actually I run everything on Lo-Z including HiFiMan
  
 CALLING WOO
 Arcing is becoming a common issue and tube rolling is going to be very expensive if 25% of tubes are discarded due to arcing
 Could any one connected with Woo Audio comment on arcing tubes , are they safe ?


----------



## LemSkee

dogmatrix said:


> Thanks for you're 2 cents, very well composed for a "noob"
> I also run my HD800 on lo-Z and use the on-board dac actually I run everything on Lo-Z including HiFiMan
> 
> CALLING WOO
> ...


 
  
 x2


----------



## desertblues

Now that I've been able to spend some quality time with my WA7 with tube power supply, I am back with some impressions. First I am happy to report no real negatives to this point - the silver finish matches the original amp and there are no problems with height or tubes arcing. I started with the stock tubes and noticed the improvement in soundstage and overall sound quality as almost everyone has reported with my Grado PS500 & Beyer T1 (a fairly recent addition). So I was happy enough with the TP until a few days ago when I rolled in a pair of NOS RCA Cleartops; I am now ecstatic with this purchase! With the Grados on lo-z setting there is a very noticeable increase in soundstage (more than I expected) as well as clarity and more defined bass - they just sound so much better. Ah, but the T1's have been taken to a whole new level with the cleartops! To be honest I have kind of been on the fence with the Beyers until now - I am just amazed at how great they are with this setup. The sound and decay of cymbals and all types of percussion is the best I have heard, the soundstage width & depth is off the charts, bass is deep and well defined! There is no excessive brightness or sibilance, just lots of air & sparkle. I know I must sound like some kind of fanboy, but up until now my preference has been the Grado sound (I have not yet tried my RS1s but will do so once I'm able to unplug the T1's)!!! I listen mainly to acoustic jazz, rock, singer-songwriters, some country and even bluegrass now & then.My setup: iMac>flac or alac files>WA7. I also use Puremusic with iTunes.


----------



## HemiSam

desertblues said:


> Now that I've been able to spend some quality time with my WA7 with tube power supply, I am back with some impressions. First I am happy to report no real negatives to this point - the silver finish matches the original amp and there are no problems with height or tubes arcing. I started with the stock tubes and noticed the improvement in soundstage and overall sound quality as almost everyone has reported with my Grado PS500 & Beyer T1 (a fairly recent addition). So I was happy enough with the TP until a few days ago when I rolled in a pair of NOS RCA Cleartops; I am now ecstatic with this purchase! With the Grados on lo-z setting there is a very noticeable increase in soundstage (more than I expected) as well as clarity and more defined bass - they just sound so much better. Ah, but the T1's have been taken to a whole new level with the cleartops! To be honest I have kind of been on the fence with the Beyers until now - I am just amazed at how great they are with this setup. The sound and decay of cymbals and all types of percussion is the best I have heard, the soundstage width & depth is off the charts, bass is deep and well defined! There is no excessive brightness or sibilance, just lots of air & sparkle. I know I must sound like some kind of fanboy, but up until now my preference has been the Grado sound (I have not yet tried my RS1s but will do so once I'm able to unplug the T1's)!!! I listen mainly to acoustic jazz, rock, singer-songwriters, some country and even bluegrass now & then.My setup: iMac>flac or alac files>WA7. I also use Puremusic with iTunes.


 
  
  
 I am late to this thread so forgive any dumb questions.  I have a Fireflies on the way.  Have not pulled the trigger on the TP...wanted to try it solo first with some tube options and then build from there.
  
 I'm also a Mac user and am particularly interesting in the Puremusic comment you made.  Sorry if I'm off-topic, but do you rip your lossless files (say from a CD) in ALAC or FLAC to your Mac's external drive?
  
 Thanks for the great review....piqued my interest in the TP.
  
 HS


----------



## desertblues

hemisam said:


> I am late to this thread so forgive any dumb questions.  I have a Fireflies on the way.  Have not pulled the trigger on the TP...wanted to try it solo first with some tube options and then build from there.
> 
> I'm also a Mac user and am particularly interesting in the Puremusic comment you made.  Sorry if I'm off-topic, but do you rip your lossless files (say from a CD) in ALAC or FLAC to your Mac's external drive?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I forgot to mention I am using a pair of nos Reflektor cryo-treated tubes (from tubeman.com) in the WA7 in place of the EH upgrade or Sovteks. To my ears the Reflektors are a bit smoother and have a more extended bass, but they are all good! Most of the hi-rez files I have are downloaded from sites like HDTracks in flac (Puremusic allows me to play & keep them in iTunes). My ALAC files were mostly ripped from CD or downloaded before I had Puremusic. I really like PM but also have Bitperfect.


----------



## HemiSam

desertblues said:


> I forgot to mention I am using a pair of nos Reflektor cryo-treated tubes (from tubeman.com) in the WA7 in place of the EH upgrade or Sovteks. To my ears the Reflektors are a bit smoother and have a more extended bass, but they are all good! Most of the hi-rez files I have are downloaded from sites like HDTracks in flac (Puremusic allows me to play & keep them in iTunes). My ALAC files were mostly ripped from CD or downloaded before I had Puremusic. I really like PM but also have Bitperfect.


 


 Thanks for sharing, db.  Regarding the tubes, I purchased the Electro Harmonix upgrade as well as the stockers that came with the Woo...looking forward to listening for the differences.
  
 I downloaded VLC...it's not all that user friendly, but it looks to be a nifty free tool for ripping in several formats and playing all sorts of formats if needed (although it's rustic at best).  I'm considering purchasing a Sonos to stream music to the Fireflies via my Mac's external drive.  I'll see how the Sonos software works and then make a call on whether something like Puremusic (PM) would be a good choice with it or redundant.  I'll also check to see if PM recognizes streaming from Beats Music...I really like what Beats (previously MOG) does in the way of finding new options based on your likes/dislikes.  Come across a lot of good music I wasn't aware of that way.
  
 I think I'm going to rip my CD's to ALAC to keep things simple...hopefully that's the right choice.
  
 HS


----------



## JoelT

desertblues said:


> So I was happy enough with the TP until a few days ago when I rolled in a pair of NOS RCA Cleartops; I am now ecstatic with this purchase! With the Grados on lo-z setting there is a very noticeable increase in soundstage (more than I expected) as well as clarity and more defined bass - they just sound so much better. Ah, but the T1's have been taken to a whole new level with the cleartops! To be honest I have kind of been on the fence with the Beyers until now - I am just amazed at how great they are with this setup.


 
 Thanks for the impressions on this tube. I placed an order for a pair of these as well, earlier this evening. They sound very promising...definitely excited to check them out with the HD800 & the LCD-2F.


----------



## JoelT

lemskee said:


> Loving the HD800s has been quite a journey for me, an acquired taste if you will.  Seemingly each element changed in the system has been a clear improvement – the EH Gold tubes, then the WA7tp, and finally the Sylvania tube swap.  That additional sparkle I mentioned earlier is somehow getting smoothed out with each passing day and listening session – call it placebo, call it auditory adaptation, or call it what I do: A surprisingly delightful combination of components all working together symbiotically to deliver some of the best musicality you’ll probably get in this price range…


 
 I agree, it is indeed a very good combination. I find the HD800 to be smooth, slightly warm and completely free of harshness with WA7/WA7tp using the Electro harmonix Gold Pins & the Sylvania JAN 5814A respectively. If you're using the internal DAC, and you choose to upgrade, you'll definitely hear a difference there as well.


----------



## nine93

I'm going to get some Sylvania JAN 5814A for my WA7tp.  Does it matter to get matched pair or not?


----------



## lengcm

Just received mine yesterday. Running it with my RS1E


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## olegausany

How RS1e compares to HD800 ?


----------



## groovyd

does the left tube in the power supply provide the power to the left channel and tube of the amp? curious because my left amp tube is much brighter then the right but the right tube in the power supply is much brighter then the left. is the left tube in the amp actually the left channel of the headphones?


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## Dogmatrix

There are many possible configurations eg one tube for heater current and one for plate current in this case matching would not be required
 Information is scarce , I don't even know if the WA7 runs AC or DC heaters


----------



## pragu

Oof, those cleartop tubes Woo posted about on facebook are pricy! $245 for a couple of tubes!
  
 That said, I'd love to hear from someone who picks up a pair...


----------



## JoelT

pragu said:


> Oof, those cleartop tubes Woo posted about on facebook are pricy! $245 for a couple of tubes!
> 
> That said, I'd love to hear from someone who picks up a pair...


 
 Agreed. _Definitely _not cheap. That said, being a glutton for punishment, I purchased a pair. I'll post some impressions comparing them to the Sylvania JAN's and the stock tubes; after I burn in the RCA clear top's of course.


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## CongeeBear

Are Woo's clear tops the same as the ones here?
  
 https://tubedepot.com/products/12au7-rca-clear-top
  
 If so, why the extraordinary price premium?


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## frankrondaniel

congeebear said:


> Are Woo's clear tops the same as the ones here?
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/12au7-rca-clear-top
> 
> If so, why the extraordinary price premium?


 
  
 That's my question as well - I wasn't sure if it was the same tube.


----------



## JoelT

Perhaps Mike can weigh in on the exact tubes & pricing. Woo Audio described them as, "NOS RCA 12AU7 Clear Tops". 
  
 I fully expect mark up given that they've gone through listening tests to find what tubes are worth offering (i.e. requires time/money), as well as testing what they sell to their customers. I don't have too big of a problem with this, assuming it creates a low-risk purchasing situation for me as a buyer. I ultimately feel that getting a very solid recommendation is worth more to me at the moment, given that I don't own a drawer full of 12AU7's to try. Furthermore, I don't have a problem supporting a small audio company like Woo Audio who's making products I enjoy and appreciate. This said, obviously everyone has to make such a decision for themselves. I'm sure my logic will seem like madness to some.


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## desertblues

To each his own, but there is only one RCA Cleartop (a mid-1960's 12au7 ). Nos matched pairs go for $40-$70 from reputable dealers, rebranded pairs are cheaper but just as good. That said, I'm currently using a pair in my WA7tp and they sound amazing!


----------



## frankrondaniel

Just ordered a set of the RCA Cleartops from Tube Depot.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Dropped in the clear tops nice nos 59 pair
 Compared to the Sylvania 5814 , I prefer the mid and treble with the clear tops stronger mids and cleaner treble bass was better with the 5814
  

 They look great too


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## HemiSam

That's a great pic...thanks for sharing your experience!
  
  





  
 HS


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## audiophile_007

Hey guys I need your help!
  
 I've been loving my wa7 + wa7tp for a few months now but yesterday I tried to turn it on via the big button on the tp (i always have the switch on the wa7 up) and it went on for a sec before it died.
 thirst thing i thought was going on was that a fuse popped (happened before) so i switched out the fuse to a working one and still no life in my wa7 and wa7tp.
  
 after that i tried to connect my solid state psu to my wa7 instead of my wa7tp and still, no life to be seen.
 The orange light on the solid state psu wouldnt even turn on.
  
 does anyone have any idea whats wrong? or do i need to send on or both in for repairs? 
  
 thnx in advance guys.


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## Bevo

I wasn't aware there was an orange light on the solid state psu. It could be the fuse of the wa7.


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## audiophile_007

does the wa7 even have a fuse? cant seem to find it


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## HemiSam

audiophile_007 said:


> *does the wa7 even have a fuse*? cant seem to find it


 
  
 This is a great question.  I just received my WA7 yesterday (no WA7TP power supply so I can't help there) and was wondering about this very thing.  I expect it does, just a matter of where.
  
 HS


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## LemSkee

A pair of RCA Clear Tops should be making its way to my doorstep as well...  Will share with yall after they've been broken in...


----------



## CongeeBear

frankrondaniel said:


> Just ordered a set of the RCA Cleartops from Tube Depot.


 
  
 Tube Depot offers so many additional options for the Clear Tops -- I haven't a clue which ones are worth paying for, aside from "matching" the tubes. Can anyone offer some advice? Thanks!


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## frankrondaniel

congeebear said:


> Tube Depot offers so many additional options for the Clear Tops -- I haven't a clue which ones are worth paying for, aside from "matching" the tubes. Can anyone offer some advice? Thanks!


 
  
 Being the "tube noob" that I am, I took all of the options thinking I would get "better" tubes as a result.  It was a completely uninformed decision. I may have simply wasted some money.  I'm curious to know if the other options really make a difference.


----------



## CongeeBear

frankrondaniel said:


> Being the "tube noob" that I am, I took all of the options thinking I would get "better" tubes as a result.  It was a completely uninformed decision. I may have simply wasted some money.  I'm curious to know if the other options really make a difference.


 
  
 Price-wise, the options don't add much to the overall cost -- I'm more concerned that some of these extra options might actually prove detrimental to the sound quality..
  
 Edit: I guess this is why it's easier to just buy 'em from Woo, lol


----------



## frankrondaniel

congeebear said:


> Price-wise, the options don't add much to the overall cost -- I'm more concerned that some of these extra options might actually prove detrimental to the sound quality..
> 
> Edit: I guess this is why it's easier to just buy 'em from Woo, lol


 
  
 Yeah - hopefully none of the options will degrade the SQ!


----------



## JoelT

I received my pair of NOS RCA clear tops yesterday and have been running burn-in on the tubes. Early impressions are very positive. I'll comment more once they have enough hours on them, but I so far I'm finding them superior to the Sylvania JAN's.


----------



## frankrondaniel

joelt said:


> I received my pair of NOS RCA clear tops yesterday and have been running burn-in on the tubes. Early impressions are very positive. I'll comment more once they have enough hours on them, but I so far I'm finding them superior to the Sylvania JAN's.


 

 Wow - that's good to hear!  I thought that the Sylvania's were good - so that's great if the Clear Tops are even better.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I'm using the Clear Tops too.  Great stuff!


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## LemSkee

joelt said:


> "... but I so far I'm finding them superior to the Sylvania JAN's. "


 
  
 very interesting... makes me even more eager to receive mine


----------



## LemSkee

joelt said:


> I received my pair of NOS RCA clear tops yesterday and have been running burn-in on the tubes. Early impressions are very positive. I'll comment more once they have enough hours on them, but I so far I'm finding them superior to the Sylvania JAN's.


 
  
 Do you feel you've sacrificed anything regarding bass with the RCAs?  One thing I really appreciated about the JANs was the bass improvement they delivered.


----------



## JoelT

lemskee said:


> Do you feel you've sacrificed anything regarding bass with the RCAs?  One thing I really appreciated about the JANs was the bass improvement they delivered.


 
 I won't say too much, as I'm not quite at 20hrs yet on the tubes (close, but not quite). _At the moment_, my answer would be "no", I don't feel the bass is sacrificed. That said, the presentation is indeed different, but to discuss the differences in detail would be a bit premature. 
  
 What headphones are you using with the WA7/WA7tp?


----------



## LemSkee

joelt said:


> I won't say too much, as I'm not quite at 20hrs yet on the tubes (close, but not quite). _At the moment_, my answer would be "no", I don't feel the bass is sacrificed. That said, the presentation is indeed different, but to discuss the differences in detail would be a bit premature.
> 
> What headphones are you using with the WA7/WA7tp?


 
  
 Gotcha!  Thanks for the response.
  
 I'm married to the HD800's for now.
  
 The clear tops came today and I wasn't there to get them (nice little USPS slip in my mailbox) - story of my life... sigh...


----------



## groovyd

my impression of the cleartops is they have less bass punch both seems just as crisp.  a part of me is preferring the JANs seemed to have balls. hard to ab though. but sure the cleartops are more expensive (and climbing now) and rarer which may have factored into being chosen...
  
 both cleartops and JANs have better bass punch, separation, and clarity then the stock tubes.


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> my impression of the cleartops is they have less bass punch both seems just as crisp.  a part of me is preferring the JANs seemed to have balls. hard to ab though. but sure the cleartops are more expensive (and climbing now) and rarer which may have factored into being chosen...


 
 Interesting impressions. I'm hearing things a bit differently.
  
 I crossed the 20hr threshold last night, and I find there to be a notable difference in microdetail between the RCA's and the JAN's. I'm hearing things clearly with the RCA's that I have to struggle to pick up with the JAN's. Separation, air and layering are better to my ear with the RCA's and they're more resolving. 
  
 I agree that the RCA's have a little bit less bass body than the JAN's (if pressed, I would describe them as being somewhere between the stock tubes and the JAN's in terms of body), but oddly I find the RCA's to have more bass slam/impact when called upon. I also question if the JAN's actually are blooming the lower-mids/upper-bass a bit, as I find the a general sense of greater clarity and transparency with the RCA's. With my Gungnir (which is already a pretty forward sounding DAC), the JAN's sound a tad wooly in comparison.
  
 Honestly, I could see people preferring either presentation depending on their headphones, DAC and music selection. At the moment, I prefer the RCA's. That said, I have more tubes inbound for testing, so I don't know how long they'll stay on top.


----------



## desertblues

joelt said:


> Interesting impressions. I'm hearing things a bit differently.
> 
> I crossed the 20hr threshold last night, and I find there to be a notable difference in microdetail between the RCA's and the JAN's. I'm hearing things clearly with the RCA's that I have to struggle to pick up with the JAN's. Separation, air and layering are better to my ear with the RCA's and they're more resolving.
> 
> ...




Have to agree with your assessment of the cleartops as to the detail, separation and bass impact - at least with my headphones (Beyer T1, Grado Rs1 + PS500). I've got a nice old pair of Mullards to roll in at some point, but the cleartops are the real deal!


----------



## groovyd

i'd probably agree with you that the JANs are providing an inflated mid-bass bloom giving them a fuller if not slightly flabbier bass then the cleartops.  The cleartops sound very resolving and accurate to me, perhaps a little more then the JANs and the JANS give you the beats in more of a Dr. Dre Beats style.  Both sound good but the JANs would suit a leaner pair of headphones (T1, HD800?) better or someone who likes punchier bass and genres like hip hop or dub step.


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> Both sound good but the JANs would suit a leaner pair of headphones (T1, HD800?) better or someone who likes punchier bass and genres like hip hop or dub step.


 
 This is true, but I this is also why I own a pair of Audeze's in addition to the HD800! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 In all seriousness, the JAN's are indeed a bit meatier sounding, which will definitely appeal to some. I'd still recommend them to someone looking for a thick, smooth and more rounded sound. As always, it comes down to finding what sounds best with your equipment, music and preferences. 
  
  


desertblues said:


> Have to agree with your assessment of the cleartops as to the detail, separation and bass impact - at least with my headphones (Beyer T1, Grado Rs1 + PS500). I've got a nice old pair of Mullards to roll in at some point, but the cleartops are the real deal!


 
 Definitely interested to hear your impressions of the Mullards. Which Mullard? The CV4003 or ECC82? Keep us posted. I have a pair of Genalex Gold Lions and a pair of Cifte 12AU7's (cryo'd) coming in next week. Should be fun listening...I'll post my impressions of those tubes as well.


----------



## jeff119

Hi fellow wa7tp-er
  
 Just recieved my WA7TP today.
  
 As this is my first ever tube amp, I would need to seek some help regarding tube rolling.
 Where do you guys get your Cleartop or JAN from?
 I realised Ebay is relatively cheaper, does it mean inferior sound quality?
 Pls advise!
 thank you


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

jeff119 said:


> Hi fellow wa7tp-er
> 
> Just recieved my WA7TP today.
> 
> ...




I ordered mine through http://tctubes.com. Be sure to order matched pairs 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## frankrondaniel

jeff119 said:


> Hi fellow wa7tp-er
> 
> Just recieved my WA7TP today.
> 
> ...


 

 Like EdmontonCanuck, I ordered my Sylvania JAN 5814A from tctubes.com, requesting a matched pair.  Recently received RCA Clear Tops from tubedepot.com, though I haven't had a chance to try them yet.


----------



## mattelka

Just received. A matched pair of Shuguang Natural Sound 12AU7-T tubes.


----------



## Dogmatrix

I would be very interested to hear you're impressions of the Shuguang tubes in the Tp mattelka
 I have been considering a set of "premium" Chinese tubes for some time but the price seems a little high
 They certainly are well presented , that's a whopper of a box


----------



## desertblues

dogmatrix said:


> I would be very interested to hear you're impressions of the Shuguang tubes in the Tp mattelka
> I have been considering a set of "premium" Chinese tubes for some time but the price seems a little high
> They certainly are well presented , that's a whopper of a box




+1 Would be very interested in your impressions.


----------



## mattelka

Hi guys (Dogmatrix / desertblues)
  
 I have very limited experience and don't write really well but I will try my best to describe what I am hearing from the WA7/tp with the recently acquired Shuguang Natural Sound 12AU7-T. These are very initial impressions, gleaned from just about 6 hours spent with them.
  
 The biggest differences I can feel is a newfound sparkle in the mids, a sense of the music being more resolving and (clichéd as it may sound) a more natural sounding feel in relation to the space between instruments.
  
 For about 4 weeks now, I had been trying to see if the LCD3(F) could be a good match to the WA7/tp. I was generally caught between thinking maybe my (other go-to) T1 was a better match to the WA7/tp, or perhaps the LCD3(F) could be more suitably matched with a more dedicated solid state amp. The missing component to me then was that missing sparkle in the mids. It was a moderately warm and cuddly sound but I felt it was too recessed for my liking. The Shuguangs seemed to have brought forward the mids to my liking.
  
 It also appears that I am better able to tell the differences and distances between instruments. It becomes clearer now there are 2 guitars instead of just 1 and that the violins are separate from the violas. Rather than just an assortment of instruments bunched up around you, one can better appreciate the distinct nature and characteristics of the various implements around you. They do however manage to come together as one satisfying complementary whole to the music though.
  
 If you listen to let's say the Eagles, you will be in a better position to figure out where Glenn is, where Don is, and where the rest of the boys are standing. I mean, they are close to each other. But not that close. And that to me is a more realistic and natural presentation of how the Eagles play together. And this is how the Shuguangs/WA7/tp present them to me.
  
 All these from a pair of tubes right out of the box? And I exaggerate, you'll say. Well, I am trying my best not to exaggerate. But at the same time, I am also trying to be as figurative as possible in my writing, so as to bring forth the more salient aspects of my initial impressions to you.
  
 Ask me again in 2 to 3 months time, and I'll see if I will still stand by what I have just described today.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## desertblues

Thanks for your impressions of the tubes! What you are describing is very similar to what I'm hearing with the RCA cleartops, particularly with Grado RS1i. They really sing with this setup!


----------



## phchin

Hi., thanks to all of you, I received WA7TP and WA7d today with my JAN and cleartops sitting in my desk already. I cannot understand why as you mentiioned, there is a big difference as I changed from the origin tubes to JAN and then to RCA cleartops. We are not rolling the amp tubes but the Power tubes. Totally worth the price of the RCA!


----------



## jeff119

Just received my Sylvania JAN 5814A.
 Initial Impression : OMG. My Setup SOUND IS A LOT BETTER. Music sounds much fuller, bass much better. A bit more details. Music are more enjoyable, reminds me of my TF10.
 It also tamed the brightness of the HD700.


----------



## frankrondaniel

jeff119 said:


> Just received my Sylvania JAN 5814A.
> Initial Impression : OMG. My Setup SOUND IS A LOT BETTER. Music sounds much fuller, bass much better. A bit more details. Music are more enjoyable, reminds me of my TF10.
> It also tamed the brightness of the HD700.


 

 I have the same experience with the Sylvania's.  That's been my usual tube for the TP.  Just recently gave the RCA Cleartops a try.  Initial impression - definitely not as happy with them (w/HD800's).  More airy sound, with maybe a bigger sound stage, but lost a lot of "weight" to the sound.  They may need more burn-in time though.


----------



## jeff119

frankrondaniel said:


> I have the same experience with the Sylvania's.  That's been my usual tube for the TP.  Just recently gave the RCA Cleartops a try.  Initial impression - definitely not as happy with them (w/HD800's).  More airy sound, with maybe a bigger sound stage, but lost a lot of "weight" to the sound.  They may need more burn-in time though.


 
 Do your Sylvania improves with burn in? Any noticeable differences? 
 I wish it can retrieve more details though :/


----------



## Bevo

Mine haven't changed with burn in. Still sounds great!


----------



## JoelT

frankrondaniel said:


> I have the same experience with the Sylvania's.  That's been my usual tube for the TP.  Just recently gave the RCA Cleartops a try.  Initial impression - definitely not as happy with them (w/HD800's).  More airy sound, with maybe a bigger sound stage, but lost a lot of "weight" to the sound.  They may need more burn-in time though.


 
 Agreed regarding the HD800. There are gains in terms of detail retrieval with the RCA CT's vs. the Sylvania JAN's, but they're a bit to thin to really match well. On the other hand, the RCA CT's are (thus far) my favorite tube for the LCD-2, which tends to be very thick sounding. Matching with your headphones is key.


----------



## frankrondaniel

joelt said:


> Agreed regarding the HD800. There are gains in terms of detail retrieval with the RCA CT's vs. the Sylvania JAN's, but they're a bit to thin to really match well. On the other hand, the RCA CT's are (thus far) my favorite tube for the LCD-2, which tends to be very thick sounding. Matching with your headphones is key.


 
  
 I can definitely imagine the Clear Tops pairing well with a darker, thicker sounding headphone.


----------



## frankrondaniel

jeff119 said:


> Do your Sylvania improves with burn in? Any noticeable differences?
> I wish it can retrieve more details though :/


 
  
 It's been a while since I first starting using the Sylvanias. I recall the highs being a little rough to begin with and then smooth some over time.  But I don't think there were any huge changes.


----------



## JoelT

frankrondaniel said:


> It's been a while since I first starting using the Sylvanias. I recall the highs being a little rough to begin with and then smooth some over time.  But I don't think there were any huge changes.


 
 +1


----------



## groovyd

I agree, the JAN is good for brighter phones such as T1 and the cleartops for darker such as LCD-X, or the JANS are better for people who prefer a bit more 'beats' sound and the cleartops for a more neutral presentation. Would be nice to see a Frequency response graph for the same pair of headphones using each set of tubes as a reference.  Are there curves different? How do they influence the peaks?
  
 I would love to see an inexpensive USB based headphone cup mic that would seal to the headphone cup and approximate the ear canal geometry which pairs with an app to do some automatic sweeps and display a response curve.  Would be really nice as a small iPhone peripheral which plays the sound and records the response at once.


----------



## LemSkee

_*I have officially arrived at Planet Audio Utopia!*_
  
 Like my previous "review" I can only offer meager elementary opinions, but here's what I can tell you thus far:
  
*RCA Clear Tops vs. Sylvania JANs*_ (approximately 60 hours of burn in on the CTs and over 120 hours on the JANs)_
  
 The CTs seemed to be a bit more tonally articulate (without any harshness) but I definitely feel that I lost a bit of fullness when compared to the sound the JANs provided me.  This is especially true in regards to the bass and low end in general.  The CTs (perhaps through this added articulation) added a hint of brightness to my HD800s but not to the point of being fatiguing.  I agree with the opinions of fellow Head-Fiers in that the CTs would be a perfect match for darker cans.  While a very slight improvement in soundstage may be evident, the shortcomings in how the bass is crafted force me to give the win to the JANs.
  
*Mullard CV4003 *_(approximately 20 hours of burn in on the Mullards)_
  
 Now here's where I start to get happy.  Although this may be considered a bit premature with only 20 hours on the Mullards, I can say that as of now, *these* are the tubes for me!  It feels like I get the articulation, soundstage, dash of tube-e-ness warmth, and bass production I've been longing for with my cans.  I believe the Mullards are a great marriage with the HD800s. At first, I thought the top end was being slightly shaved off, then I realized it was simply the bottom end being picked up a bit to provide a more complete output.  All three families (bass, mids, and highs) just sing together in harmony with this latest roll in.  While the JANs gave me the bass I was looking for, albeit mildly bloated, the Mullards give me that bass with a seemingly more authentic and truer presentation.  It's as if the CV4003s understand how accurate the HD800s are and said "ok boys, we're good with that category, now let's go smooth out and polish off every other area and call it a day".  A terrible analogy but describing what I'm hearing is hard to do with words.  Now this of course is just my own opinion with my limited gear and expertise; however, I am so happy to report that I have found a set of tubes that give me everything I wanted when I purchased the 800s.
  
 As more time gets put on the Mullards or when I roll in a set of Chinese tubes, I'll keep you guys posted.  For anyone else that's thrown in some Mullards, I'd love to hear your feedback (especially if you're using HD800s like me).
  
 Enjoy!
  
 Lem
  
gear used: WA7 (with EH Gold Tubes) - WA7tp - WA7 USB DAC - HD800 Cans


----------



## frankrondaniel

Thanks for the feedback! That's very useful, especially since we have the same setup and seem to have the same opinions. I'll have to give the Mullards a try.


----------



## groovyd

Got a couple pair on order... should be interesting to hear the differences.


----------



## desertblues

I'm running a pair of Mullard ECC82 and really starting to like what I'm hearing with my T1's! Only 8 hours on the tubes so far.


----------



## frankrondaniel

desertblues said:


> I'm running a pair of Mullard ECC82 and really starting to like what I'm hearing with my T1's! Only 8 hours on the tubes so far.




What are you hearing now with the T1 that you like? I haven't used my T1 lately. Maybe it's time to give it a listen again.


----------



## groovyd

glad i did like i said and waited for the gallery to suss out the best tubes for it... 4 different sets of tubes later my pocket is feeling the stress of tube rolling  i guess it is always good to have backups just incase but i am starting to understand the appeal of solid state


----------



## desertblues

frankrondaniel said:


> What are you hearing now with the T1 that you like? I haven't used my T1 lately. Maybe it's time to give it a listen again.


 
  
 A smoother top end but not rolled-off. Mids and bass have a warmer feel and vocals are outstanding. These Mullards (1964 vintage) are probably going to be my choice for the T1 - obviously improving with break in while the clear tops were great for my Grados right away.


----------



## HemiSam

Anyone come up with a more reliable solution for the triangular plastic/rubber pads that sit between the glass and the unit?  I find that they don't like staying in place and it's only a matter of time before one or more go AWOL...
  
 HS


----------



## groovyd

hemisam said:


> Anyone come up with a more reliable solution for the triangular plastic/rubber pads that sit between the glass and the unit?  I find that they don't like staying in place and it's only a matter of time before one or more go AWOL...
> 
> HS


 

 I began researching to have a bunch of custom aluminum rings cuts that would have the ID to match the OD of the base and OD to match the ID of the glass holes but just never did it.  I think it would only make sense if you made like 100 of them and sold them.  Seem any decent machinist should be able to lathe them out pretty quick and cheap but unless you have a lathe it is just too costly.
  
 Other option I was looking into is buying some orings of the same idea and a managed to find some but the OD is like .5 mm too fat and I couldn't think of a good way to thin them out.
  
 Since then I have lost all the triangles and just try not to touch anything.  Let me know if you find a good solution.


----------



## HemiSam

groovyd said:


> I began researching to have a bunch of custom aluminum rings cuts that would have the ID to match the OD of the base and OD to match the ID of the glass holes but just never did it.  I think it would only make sense if you made like 100 of them and sold them.  Seem any decent machinist should be able to lathe them out pretty quick and cheap but unless you have a lathe it is just too costly.
> 
> Other option I was looking into is buying some orings of the same idea and a managed to find some but the OD is like .5 mm too fat and I couldn't think of a good way to thin them out.
> 
> Since then I have lost all the triangles and just try not to touch anything.  Let me know if you find a good solution.


 
  
  
 I've gone down the rabbit hole on complexity on modifications to my car as I've pursued "more"...  So I was thinking something simpler.  What about some black felt round jobbies (maybe the size of a nickel but preferably a dime) that would adhear to that floating aluminum plate via adhesive and have the felt towards the glass?
  
 HS


----------



## Dogmatrix

hemisam said:


> Anyone come up with a more reliable solution for the triangular plastic/rubber pads that sit between the glass and the unit?  I find that they don't like staying in place and it's only a matter of time before one or more go AWOL...
> 
> HS


 

 I use glu dots , Blu Tack brand by Bostik , removable type
 I take one 10mm dot cut from the sheet with backing papers intact and cut it into quarters
 I then have four little sticky corners which are easily applied to the corners of the amp
 I have removed the glass half a dozen times and the dots still function perfectly the glass stays firmly in place
 I had some difficulty lifting the glass the first time and had to slide a plastic knife blade in to lever up one side
 I have had no problem since and a slight upwards pull is all it takes
 I replaced the original dot recently and found no residue or marks no solvent was required for removal
 I recommend them without hesitation
  
 On another note just rolled in a pair of French made Mazda 12au7 they have uncoated silver slotted plates and triple mica .
 Sound stage , imaging , detail and separation are the winners here so if that floats you're boat hunt down a pair
 They are quite rare so it may take a while but for me they top the ct and jan tubes by a good margin
 Have some Raytheon shiny black plate 12au7 1957 on the way
 Great if they turn out to be good as they are very common and cheap


----------



## HemiSam

dogmatrix said:


> I use glu dots , Blu Tack brand by Bostik , removable type
> I take one 10mm dot cut from the sheet with backing papers intact and cut it into quarters
> I then have four little sticky corners which are easily applied to the corners of the amp
> I have removed the glass half a dozen times and the dots still function perfectly the glass stays firmly in place
> ...


 
  
 Brilliant.  Cheers!
  
 HS


----------



## JoelT

dogmatrix said:


> On another note just rolled in a pair of French made Mazda 12au7 they have uncoated silver slotted plates and triple mica .
> Sound stage , imaging , detail and separation are the winners here so if that floats you're boat hunt down a pair
> They are quite rare so it may take a while but for me they top the ct and jan tubes by a good margin


 
 Are they labeled as "Mazda"? Or are they actually labeled as Cifte?


----------



## Dogmatrix

They are labelled Teonex and came in Chelmer boxes but the design is unmistakably Mazda / Cifte I don't think anyone else ever made a 12au7 like that
 The seller did not know what they were so I only paid $30 for the matched pair
 Last pair I saw on Ebay went for $300
 I will try and post a pic later today


----------



## JoelT

dogmatrix said:


> They are labelled Teonex and came in Chelmer boxes but the design is unmistakably Mazda / Cifte I don't think anyone else ever made a 12au7 like that
> The seller did not know what they were so I only paid $30 for the matched pair
> Last pair I saw on Ebay went for $300
> I will try and post a pic later today


 
 That's cheap. I suspect they're the same tube I'm using, produced by Mazda and then relabled. Mine are labeled as Cifte's; they're NOS 1962's that I had cryo'd to be specific. If so, they're easily the best tube I've tried thus far. I should really grab another pair for backup.


----------



## groovyd

d*m you guys have to wait till i buy the next one before talking up another one?!


----------



## phchin

Having read comment on JAN and cleartops, I tried hard to listen to both again. On my HD800 I did not find base lacking to the extent that hurt my listening experience when I listned to Hotel California of Eagle, in cleartops. I did hear exceedingly sharp and comfortable guitar notes though. I enjoy cleartops better.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Apologies to all but these are really good
 Teonex? Mazda? Cifte? who knows but the structure is quite unique

 Shot of the label

 One more for luck


----------



## JoelT

Those are indeed very unique looking. It's a different tube than the 1962 Cifte's I'm running. I thought they might be the same, as the Cifte's were manufactured by Mazda as well, and your sound description falls in line with my pair. Obviously they're not though. Any idea what year your tubes were made?


----------



## Dogmatrix

No idea on year can't find any etched code or tag , print looks very 70's but that's just a guess
 Certainly a family resemblance with the Cifte tubes , lose the coating and morph the hole into a slot
 I have only seen a few of these silver tubes over the last couple of years so I think you're Cifte version is a more practical option for keen rollers
 Seems tubes which excel in a preamp or amp (these are well documented) are also proving useful in the Tp , probably build quality as much as anything
 So I would expect tubes like Telefunken , CBS Hytron , RFT , Semens and Amperex to work as well as those we have already discovered
 We just need brave rollers to try them out to reveal their charms


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@JoelT beautiful shots.  Thank you for sharing.


----------



## CongeeBear

@Dogmatrix wondering what kind of camera and/or lens you used for those tube shots -- very impressive!


----------



## cesupro

My brief simplification/overview of the tubes mentioned in this thread.  I didn't take the time to quote every "review" or call out all usernames... sorry.
  
  
 Sylvania JAN 5814A - Extra bass, better for bright headphones, fairly easy to find a pair of these, also the first ones people started to roll in... overall very good feedback from everyone that's tried them over stock.  Nice full/meaty sound.
 Cost ~$50 for matched pair at tctubes.com
  
 RCA Cleartops - More overall detail, thinner bass than Sylvania, but still more bass than stock, better for darker headphones - being offered directly through Woo for matched sets (~$250) - seem to be overall a tad more natural than JANs which might bloat the bass/mid-bass
 Cost ~$65 at tctubes.com (though, this seems low, am I looking at the right things?  They're labelled as "organ stock") @ tubedepot for ~$120 for a matched set
  
 Shuguang - Not much in way of comparison, but liked by mattelka, better separation and forward mids (maybe similar to RCA CT)
 Cost ?
  
 Mullard CV4003 - Sounds like maybe similar to JANs but with a little less exaggerated bass - not sure how they compare to the RCAs?  Or the Mullard ECC82?
 Cost ~$100-150?
  
 Cifte/Mazda(?) 12AU7 - Good staging/separation, not compared directly to JAN/RCAs but JoelT and dogmatrix digging on 'em
 Cost - found a pair on eBay for $130
  
  
 Does that about cover this thread thus far?


----------



## cesupro

Also, I have a tubeless WA7tp in my possession (with a stock tubed WA7) and a pair of PS500e's and looking for a good starter tube to use.  Leaning towards the low cost JANs since it seems like they'd match decently well with Grados... but Mullards sound nice, too.  I think a couple had some 500s in this thread - which tubes have you guys used?


----------



## JoelT

cesupro said:


> Cifte/Mazda(?) 12AU7 - Good staging/separation, not compared directly to JAN/RCAs but JoelT and dogmatrix digging on 'em
> Cost - found a pair on eBay for $130


 
 A cautionary note - There's a lot I could say about the cryo'd Cifte 12AU7, but have avoided talking much about them due to startup arcing:
  
 When used in the WA7tp, my Cifte 12AU7 cryo's tend to produce a small blue arc at startup. It only happens once and then never happens again as long as the unit remains powered. Proceed at your own risk! I contacted WA about the issue and was essentially told that it shouldn't be a big deal (but that they'd look at the WA7tp if I wanted them to). I initially had the RCA CT's arc when I first got them as well, though they stopped after I burned them in for awhile. I have another set of Cifte's on the way, and I'll test them for the same issue (and get them burned in as well).


----------



## JoelT

I should also add a small report on the Genalex Gold Lion ECC82:
  
 They are very forward, full, and have a very nice tonal balance. Slightly warm, but not gooey and over the top. The top end is sparkley and quite detailed - more detailed than the Sylvania JAN's to my ear. The bass is the fullest and most forceful out of any tube I've tested with the WA7tp. They're a bit too much for already warm and full cans (Audeze, I'm looking at you), but fill out the HD800 quite nicely. The catch is the soundstage. Due to being so forward, they tend to sound a bit compressed when compared with the Cifte 12AU7's and the RCA CT's. The Gold Lion's also loose some of the layering sensation. I think some may enjoy their rather intimate and full presentation, but I prefer the HD800's to render as large of a soundstage as possible, while remaining detailed and full. In other words, I feel that the Gold Lion's don't fully cater to a major strength of the HD800, despite making up for some of it's weaknesses (i.e. they can end up sounding thin with the wrong set of tubes). They definitely aren't a great match for the already full and weighty LCD-2. 
  
 All in all, I really wanted to like these, but they don't quite have the magic I was looking for.


----------



## JoelT

cesupro said:


> RCA Cleartops - More overall detail, thinner bass than Sylvania, but still more bass than stock, better for darker headphones - being offered directly through Woo for matched sets (~$250) - seem to be overall a tad more natural than JANs which might bloat the bass/mid-bass
> Cost ~$65 at tctubes.com (though, this seems low, am I looking at the right things?  They're labelled as "organ stock") @ tubedepot for ~$120 for a matched set


 
 Upscale Audio has NOS RCA CT's available for $40 or $50 each depending on the grade (they will match them if you purchase 2).


----------



## frankrondaniel

Thanks for your additional impressions! I have a pair of the Cifte on the way. I'm curious to see of I experience the arcing issue as well.


----------



## Dogmatrix

@CongeeBear it's an Olympus Omd-Em1 with stock 14-42mm
@cesupro excellent summary I believe that is the state of play so far
@JoelT After extensive research on arcing it seems the blue arc is caused by gas , common in tubes that have been in long storage and not a problem . A bright white flash on the other hand may indicate a tube is close to failure


----------



## JoelT

You bet! I hope the Cifte's work out for you. If the Cifte's didn't sound so f'n good I would have moved on, but alas...they're amazing.


----------



## JoelT

dogmatrix said:


> @JoelT After extensive research on arcing it seems the blue arc is caused by gas , common in tubes that have been in long storage and not a problem . A bright white flash on the other hand may indicate a tube is close to failure


 
 You seriously made my day. Awesome. Thanks for the information! I guess 50+ years in storage did the trick.
  
 I'll try and put together some further thoughts on the Cifte's later tonight.


----------



## mattelka

The Shuguang Natural Sound 12AU7-T matched pair can be bought from Shuguangs on ebay for about USD67 inclusive worldwide shipping. They also have a normal range for the 12AU7 at about 1/3 of the Natural Sound price.


----------



## cesupro

Any thoughts on the organ stock clear tops?

http://tctubes.com/RCA-12AU7A-clear-tops-matched-pair.aspx


----------



## desertblues

cesupro said:


> Any thoughts on the organ stock clear tops?
> 
> http://tctubes.com/RCA-12AU7A-clear-tops-matched-pair.aspx




The cleartops labeled for organ companies are the same tube as the RCA-labeled ones. They are the best value if you don't care about the logo. You can get a matched pair from Brent at www.audiotubes.com for about $40 (very reputable dealer in my experience).


----------



## cesupro

Perfect, just ordered a pair of Organ Cleartops from Brent!  Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## desertblues

A brief update on the Mullard Ecc82's I'm running in my WA7tp: with several hours listening today I'm at 20 hours on them and they are indeed improving with break-in! This is for me THE choice for the T1, they have never sounded this good with any tubes I've used-not even close! Incredible layering and spaciousness, enhanced bass that seems to go deeper but it is well-defined. Highs are not harsh at all but not rolled off either, while vocals and mids are gorgeous as usual with the T1's. I got into some jazz today and it was just stunning, percussion is mind blowing (ever heard Ahmad Jamal's Blue Moon album?). I frequently end a listening session with a track from the 192/24 flac download of "Kind of Blue", today it was the entire thing - twice!


----------



## frankrondaniel

desertblues said:


> A brief update on the Mullard Ecc82's I'm running in my WA7tp: with several hours listening today I'm at 20 hours on them and they are indeed improving with break-in! This is for me THE choice for the T1, they have never sounded this good with any tubes I've used-not even close! Incredible layering and spaciousness, enhanced bass that seems to go deeper but it is well-defined. Highs are not harsh at all but not rolled off either, while vocals and mids are gorgeous as usual with the T1's. I got into some jazz today and it was just stunning, percussion is mind blowing (ever heard Ahmad Jamal's Blue Moon album?). I frequently end a listening session with a track from the 192/24 flac download of "Kind of Blue", today it was the entire thing - twice!


 
  
 I'm having a similar experience with Mullard CV4003's that were suggested earlier in the thread.  I've had them in the TP for the past couple of days - not sure if that's long enough for them to fully burn in. But with T1's and HD800's, I'm also hearing a nice spaciousness and layering, and highs that don't need the EQ that I normally need to apply.  The bass is there, deep and well defined, but I still feel a certain lack of weight if that makes any sense.  I wonder if the ECC82's would provide that.


----------



## groovyd

Still waiting on my Mullards.  Got a second (very strong) set of cleartops off ebay which have a totally different sound then the other 3 sets i have.  I think one should keep in mind that all tubes sound differently even within the same make.  Perhaps it has more to do with the 'strength', with these cleartops measuring 2100+ umhos which is considered better then new apparently but I have no idea what these numbers actually mean.  I am guessing one of my sets of cleartops which I was not impressed with is probably much lower (older?).  Could one tube winning over another be a question of 'freshness'?


----------



## groovyd

Where do I get a tube tester?  Something that measures for matching, umhos, staleness, whatever...


----------



## fengwei007

holeout said:


> Just put in a set of Sylvania Gold Brand 5814A in the WA7tp. Much better separation, timbre and density with a more holographic soundstage than stock tubes. Sounded awesome with my HD800 that I didn't want to take them off.


 
 I wonder where to find these tubes, and the price? I searched on eBay, there are too many varieties, and prices defer quite a bit too  Would be great if you or someone can point me to the right one so I can give it a shot. 
  
 Thanks and cheers!
  
 Frank


----------



## groovyd

Mullard CV4003's arrived and first impression is an opennes and much more pronounced highs but a bit weaker in the fullness of the bass.  They have ver well defined bass but the emphasis is definitely on the highs.  So far I am thinking I prefer the second 'strong' set of cleartops or the much punchier JANs.
  
 One thing about these Mullards though is they came in a plain white box and the markings on the tubes do not say Mullard anywhere.  Markings are light white and half rubbed off so not sure if they are indeed authentic.  Other then that they look completely new/unused.  Copper pins I believe but they are blackish, not shiney copper, look like they could be quite old but the insides look brand new.On first power up the heaters came on about double bright and then dimmed down and turning them off and on again they do not exhibit the startup brightness and dimming anymore.  
  
 They only have a few hours on them so things may indeed change.  They do sound very good with the LCD-X and bring some high end 'T1' like airiness that the JANS lack and even the cleartops a little.  I would say these are closer to the cleartops then the JANs.


----------



## groovyd

didn't take long before the bass started to fill in and the highs dropped off slightly.  They are starting to fill in the gaps and sound actually very nice now with the LCD-X.  There is nothing sloppy sounding about these tubes, very tight controlled bass and highs. Crisp is the word I would use.  They seem to bring a bit of the T1 sound to the LCD-X which I enjoy.


----------



## groovyd

actually the tubes do their bright white light warmup together on every power up.  it isn't a flash but more like a 3 second brightening to pure white and bright to dimming back to normal orange.  is this normal for this type of tube?


----------



## smellyfungus

groovyd said:


> actually the tubes do their bright white light warmup together on every power up.  it isn't a flash but more like a 3 second brightening to pure white and bright to dimming back to normal orange.  is this normal for this type of tube?




my mullards flash everytime I turn on the wa7tp. just a quick 1-2 second bright white to regular orange ordeal.


----------



## groovyd

smellyfungus said:


> my mullards flash everytime I turn on the wa7tp. just a quick 1-2 second bright white to regular orange ordeal.


 

 yep, same... apparently it is normal for the early original mullards. guess i need to start thinking of it as a sign of quality


----------



## groovyd

After some time on the Mullards I am not going back.  They have fully filled in flat and are the cat's meow now


----------



## desertblues

groovyd said:


> After some time on the Mullards I am not going back.  They have fully filled in flat and are the cat's meow now




+1. The Mullards are purring nicely in my wa7tp also. This is the best tube for the T1 imo, hands down! I love the cleartops for my Grado RS1i, but they sing with the mullards also.


----------



## JoelT

I moved to a pair of cryo'd NOS Mullard CV4003's a little over a week or so ago as well. I don't get any flashing/arcing with mine thankfully. Overall, very yummy. 
  
 I agree with the previous comments - a very resolving, detailed tube, that's tonally balanced with richly textured bass and superb impact. They've become my favorite WA7tp tube, and play well with all of my headphones. Both my LCD-2 and my HD800 sound tonally "right", which is saying something. The only "gripe" I have is that sibilance is very obvious _if _it's on the recording (particularly with the HD800, to no ones surprise). This is not a tube that glosses over recording flaws in the slightest. If you're looking for gooey "tube warmth", look elsewhere. However, if you want microdetail, resolution, texture, soundstaging & separation, and excellent timbre, this is the best I've heard. As l've spent time listening with these tubes, I keep picking up nuances and details that I hadn't heard before, oftentimes in the lower registers of the spectrum. The low end punch these tubes can exhibit still catches me off guard, with zero bass bloat. Quite impressive - and the end of the WA7tp tube-rolling journey for me.


----------



## jhljhl

Can you use 12ax7s?


----------



## desertblues

jhljhl said:


> Can you use 12ax7s?




No, has to be a 12au7 type!


----------



## jhljhl

desertblues said:


> No, has to be a 12au7 type!


 
 OK thanks.  Too bad have lots of them.


----------



## frankrondaniel

joelt said:


> I moved to a pair of cryo'd NOS Mullard CV4003's a little over a week or so ago as well. I don't get any flashing/arcing with mine thankfully. Overall, very yummy.
> 
> I agree with the previous comments - a very resolving, detailed tube, that's tonally balanced with richly textured bass and superb impact. They've become my favorite WA7tp tube, and play well with all of my headphones. Both my LCD-2 and my HD800 sound tonally "right", which is saying something. The only "gripe" I have is that sibilance is very obvious _if _it's on the recording (particularly with the HD800, to no ones surprise). This is not a tube that glosses over recording flaws in the slightest. If you're looking for gooey "tube warmth", look elsewhere. However, if you want microdetail, resolution, texture, soundstaging & separation, and excellent timbre, this is the best I've heard. As l've spent time listening with these tubes, I keep picking up nuances and details that I hadn't heard before, oftentimes in the lower registers of the spectrum. The low end punch these tubes can exhibit still catches me off guard, with zero bass bloat. Quite impressive - and the end of the WA7tp tube-rolling journey for me.


 
  
 Hi Joel,
  
 Turns out that I've been using the CV4003's in the PSU for a while now.  I agree with your evaluation - especially with regard to driving the HD800's.  Trouble is that I find when using the EH 6C45 Gold Plated tubes in the amp the highs remain somewhat uncomfortable.  Switching to Cryo Treated 6C45Pi tubes in the amp, I think that I get as close as possible to having the "gooey tube warmth" on the WA7. Very smooth, weighty though still detailed sound.  Only problem is I lose the wide sound stage that I prefer.  It seems to collapse to the middle.  More of an inside-the-head experience.  I'd love to find a tube for the amp that gives me the same sound but with an improved sound stage.6It's too bad that the rolling options for the amp are limited.GC456C45


----------



## groovyd

got a second set of 4 Cryo-treated Mullards from Upscale Audio still in original boxes from great britain and very obviously never used, still with full clear printing on the tubes and shiney copper pins and they do not exhibit the same white strobe on power-up as the others I got from company b.  The construction of the cans inside the tube look slightly different too, they don't have holes in them like the others.


----------



## JoelT

frankrondaniel said:


> Turns out that I've been using the CV4003's in the PSU for a while now.  I agree with your evaluation - especially with regard to driving the HD800's.  Trouble is that I find when using the EH 6C45 Gold Plated tubes in the amp the highs remain somewhat uncomfortable.  Switching to Cryo Treated 6C45Pi tubes in the amp, I think that I get as close as possible to having the "gooey tube warmth" on the WA7.


 
  
 I'm usually not finding the HD800's highs to be uncomfortable when using the Gungnir/Wyrd combo as a source, with the exception of recording specific sibilance that occasionally rears it's ugly head. I've been experimenting with a subtle application of EQ to cut the sibilance/glare. 1.5db-2db in the 10k range is doing the trick for me at the moment. I tend not to listen to the HD800 very loud though - it is a bright leaning can, for better or worse. I'll probably try the Anax 2.0 mod sometime in the near future, and possibly a good copper cable rather than the SPC stock cable. Over smoothing or masking of the HD800's treble region with mushy sounding tubes obviously isn't ideal either, as the headphones technical prowess can be lost (as you pointed). 
  
 I agree that the lack of driver tube options for the WA7 is unfortunate, though I suspect it was by design (i.e. simpler for first time users). That said, I've had a lot of fun and enjoyment with the addition of the WA7tp tube rolling, so I'm thankful for that. Looking back at what the stock WA7 sounded like with the solid state PSU, I've come a very long ways in terms of sound quality. It has been a learning experience.


----------



## JoelT

groovyd said:


> got a second set of 4 Cryo-treated Mullards from Upscale Audio still in original boxes from great britain and very obviously never used, still with full clear printing on the tubes and shiney copper pins and they do not exhibit the same white strobe on power-up as the others I got from company b.  The construction of the cans inside the tube look slightly different too, they don't have holes in them like the others.


 
 That's where I bought mine as well. I like their grading, testing and labeling - knowing what you're getting is worth it IMO. Enjoy.
  
 Just out of curiosity, what were your test rating #'s?


----------



## groovyd

joelt said:


> That's where I bought mine as well. I like their grading, testing and labeling - knowing what you're getting is worth it IMO. Enjoy.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what were your test rating #'s?


 

 all 4 are T1=29000 T2=28000... is that any good ?  I know nothing about those numbers.


----------



## JoelT

I don't know specifically what the test scores correlate to - I should call them and find out, as it'd be interesting. Mine were sold as "platinum" grade and are listed as 27000/29000 respectively. The cryo'd Cifte's I have are rated 30000/30000, and the the JAN Sylvania's I used to run were tested at 20000/20000 (by TCtubes).


----------



## jhljhl

I noticed that when the power supply is right next to the main unit there is a buzzing sound but if there is 2-3 inches apart there is no buzzing.  Any one else notice this?


----------



## JoelT

jhljhl said:


> I noticed that when the power supply is right next to the main unit there is a buzzing sound but if there is 2-3 inches apart there is no buzzing.  Any one else notice this?


 
 Strange. Mine sit about 1" apart and there is no buzzing/noise whatsoever.


----------



## desertblues

joelt said:


> Strange. Mine sit about 1" apart and there is no buzzing/noise whatsoever.




Same here, 1" apart and no noise of any kind.


----------



## jhljhl

desertblues said:


> Same here, 1" apart and no noise of any kind.


 

 I changed powercords and now the buzzing stopped thanks.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jhljhl said:


> I changed powercords and now the buzzing stopped thanks.


 
  
 Glad it was a simple fix.


----------



## smellyfungus

groovyd said:


> got a second set of 4 Cryo-treated Mullards from Upscale Audio still in original boxes from great britain and very obviously never used, still with full clear printing on the tubes and shiney copper pins and they do not exhibit the same white strobe on power-up as the others I got from company b.  The construction of the cans inside the tube look slightly different too, they don't have holes in them like the others.




just curious do you have a pic of your tube collection? I swear you must have at least 20 pairs or so with all the backup pairs you order.


----------



## groovyd

smellyfungus said:


> just curious do you have a pic of your tube collection? I swear you must have at least 20 pairs or so with all the backup pairs you order.


 

 I have more then that haha, prefer to be well prepared for the tube-pocalyse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I have 2 units, home and work and each has the WA7tp.  I bought 4 pair of cleartops, 4 pair of JANs, 4 pair of mullards, and the original 2 pair of stock.  For the WA7's i have the 2 pair of stock, another 10 pair of golds cryo, 6 pair of NOS, and 4 pair of the hybrids.


----------



## jhljhl

hifiguy528 said:


> Glad it was a simple fix.


 

 I highly recommend a good power cord.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

groovyd said:


> I have more then that haha, prefer to be well prepared for the tube-pocalyse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very impressive collection.  Tubes are a lot of fun and can be a smart investment.


----------



## groovyd

Mullards are really starting to sound incredible now after 40 hours of burn-in.  Much tighter and deeper bass, smoother mids. Am hearing entire instruments in tracks I have listened to thousands of times and never noticed deep in the background.  Very clear, very well defined.


----------



## desertblues

Very similar experience here with the Mullards. I know it sounds cliche, but hearing new things in familiar tracks also. My T1 sounds better than ever with this setup!


----------



## BirdManOfCT

warrenpchi said:


> Since it's about to  be launched, I thought I'd get an impressions thread started.  If you've heard the WA7TP - and especially if you've been able to A/B it vs the stock PSU - please post your impressions here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for starting this thread some 6 months ago. Considering adding the WA7tp to my WA7 and this thread is very helpful.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

olegausany said:


> Have no idea what are you talking about. I had WA7 with stock power supply and both stock and EH tubes and HD650 sounded great. Give stock tubes at least 20 hours and EH tubes at least 30 hours before saying something
> 
> Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk


 

 Just added EH tubes to stock WA7. Hate burning in time without listening. LOL
  
 Edit: don't get me wrong, I was replying because I'm glad you indicated your suggested time for burn-in.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

lemskee said:


> *Two Cents from a Noooob...*
> 
> Received my WA7tp about 3 weeks ago, but waited on posting this to ensure enough time had elapsed before I offered my opinion.
> 
> ...


 

 Excellent! Thanks!


----------



## ShySugarDaddy

Thanks guys. 
 I tried the mullard and fell inlove with it.
 better imaging, some sounds that fell behind the music popped out , better instruments ohhh those strings gave me chills. i never imagined that a tube for the psu would have a drastic effect on the sound.
 I'm a noob but after listening to these tubes, I may now know what soul in the music means.
  

  
 Although i costed me a hefty 400usd (due to customs corruption)
 Mullard cv4003 match pair. cryo treated.
  
 i have a question what does the 29000/29000 mean? cant seem to find any info on that.
 is it good? i just picked the highest possible price for this on the upscale audio site.


----------



## Dogmatrix

shysugardaddy said:


> i have a question what does the 29000/29000 mean? cant seem to find any info on that.
> is it good? i just picked the highest possible price for this on the upscale audio site.


 
 It is a measurement from their test rig which in itself does not mean much more than the tubes work and the sections match


----------



## HemiSam

birdmanofct said:


> Just added EH tubes to stock WA7. Hate burning in time without listening. LOL
> 
> Edit: don't get me wrong, I was replying because I'm glad you indicated your suggested time for burn-in.


 
  
  
 Yeah...that's a good move.  I found them terribly bright until they settled down.  I need to go back to the stock tubes to see how I feel about them.  Have to say I was happy with the stock tubes and at first thought I'd made a bad call when I listened to the EH gold tips too early.  They're fine by me now.
  
 HS


----------



## Jeb Listens

Just reviving this thread a little as I'm keen to hear impressions of anyone who has used the WA7/tp and the WA6-SE and what their overall preference was?  
  
 I'm trying to decide between these two for the LCD2-2Fs and would really value any opinions.  
  
 Regards
  
 Jeb.


----------



## Jeb Listens

groovyd said:


> I have more then that haha, prefer to be well prepared for the tube-pocalyse :eek:
> 
> I have 2 units, home and work and each has the WA7tp.  I bought 4 pair of cleartops, 4 pair of JANs, 4 pair of mullards, and the original 2 pair of stock.  For the WA7's i have the 2 pair of stock, another 10 pair of golds cryo, 6 pair of NOS, and 4 pair of the hybrids.




Hi groovyd,

That's an impressive stockpile! May I ask what are the 'hybrids' you mentioned?

Regards 

Jeb


----------



## groovyd

Sovteks but cryo bought from different distributor


----------



## dL.

Quick question guys!
  
 Is your WA7TP top plate (that has the 2 tube cutout) loose? When I put on the glass and align it, the top plate would have quite a bit of play / movement. The WA7 top plate is solid without any movement. Not a big deal as I won't touch it after I put on the glass, but just wondering if it wasn't installed properly or if it's the nature of the TP version.
  
 Thanks,
  
 dL


----------



## HemiSam

The piece on my WA7 has a small bit of movement, but it is locked in nicely...not coming out.  It is a non-issue.
  
 HS


----------



## dL.

hemisam said:


> The piece on my WA7 has a small bit of movement, but it is locked in nicely...not coming out.  It is a non-issue.
> 
> HS


 

 So yours is the WA7 that has small movement but the TP top plate is fine? If so, then I guess it's just variance then.
  
 Has anyone also had a white spark on one of the tubes for the TP unit? When I first powered it up, it was fine. Then the second time, one of the tube sparked some white light for a split second but everything seems fine. Could it be because I'm using a crappy power cable?
  
 dL


----------



## HemiSam

dl. said:


> So yours is the WA7 that has small movement but the TP top plate is fine?
> 
> Then I guess it's just variance then.
> 
> dL


 
  
  
 No...sorry.  To be clear the top plate on my WA7 has a bit of movement.  I thought it was the design.  It's not a lot and it certainly doesn't look to want to come out.  I do not own the TP.
  
 HS


----------



## dL.

hemisam said:


> No...sorry.  To be clear the top plate on my WA7 has a bit of movement.  I thought it was the design.  It's not a lot and it certainly doesn't look to want to come out.  I do not own the TP.
> 
> HS


 

 Thanks for letting me know. On my WA7 it's completely tight but the TP would move a bit. At least the silver colour is the same between the two units 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I edited my previous message and it would be great if you could let me know if you've seen any sparks before on your tubes. Thanks HemiSam!
  
 dL


----------



## HemiSam

dl. said:


> Thanks for letting me know. On my WA7 it's completely tight but the TP would move a bit. At least the silver colour is the same between the two units
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No sparks on the tubes that I have ever seen and I've used mine quite a lot.
  
 Happy to help.
  
 HS


----------



## groovyd

I have seen arcing on mine once or twice using the Sylvanias but not the Mullers or the stock tubes.  I was worried at first too and was told this was normal for some types of tubes.  If it happens every time you turn it on and they are stock tubes I would ask Woo more about it.  I am guessing this arcing would lead to premature tube burnout if it happens often.


----------



## Igor01

A quick question to tube gurus...
  
 I was looking for upgrading the tubes in my WA7tp unit and came across two options:
  
Ebay link and CanuckAudioMart link
  
 The ebay one is quite a bit cheaper so I ordered a pair, but it appears that I missed the fact that the more expensive pair sold on CanuckAudioMart is actually a Gold brand with triple mica construction. I am told that the ones from eBay should prove much inferior with higher noise and lower life than the more expensive gold brand. Have I thrown out my money and will the pair I've bought from the eBay auction be completely useless (as in should I just stick with either the stock Sovtek tubes or get the Gold brand triple mica ones)?
  
 I will be using the WA7/WA7tp with Audeze LCD-XC and Senn HD800 if that matters.
  
 Any feedback and advice will be much appreciated.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Hi Igor, 
  
 I'm sure others more experienced with these tubes will weigh in soon, but to keep you going until that happens...   
  
 I have also just begun to accumulate some tubes for my Wa7tp.  I haven't used mine yet  (i'm away for a couple of weeks) but wanted to get some different tubes to try when I'm home so have been looking and buying a few in anticipation.  So I can at least share my shopping & research experience.
  
 As far as I can tell, the eBay link ones, which are the JAN ("Joint Army & Navy"  i.e. Military-spec) variety are exactly the type that have been used by many here with very positive results.  I got a few of those too since, as you say, they are pretty cheap and are said to give quite a full sound with a slight boost in bass.   The military-grade tubes are generally said to be more rugged so I wouldn't worry about their life expectancy, although with any tube you never know. 
  
 When I was looking I also saw those other more expensive gold-pin "domestic" variety ones too I only read of one other person on this thread using those. They also posted favourable results but not necessarily different from the JANs.  They seem quite expensive so probably worth seeing how the JANs perform before paying the extra.  Perhaps someone has been able to compare the two, but I think the ones you got will be a good, inexpensive place to start - that's what I'm doing anyway!  
  
 Just FYI, I also asked a few head-fiers for suggestions for tubes for Audeze headphones (mine is LCD-2F) and was heartily recommended the Mullard CV4003, another Military-spec tube made for the RAF, so I have a couple of those to try too.  They were about $40 a tube, so not cheap, but not crazy.   I just liked the idea of using something British in my otherwise all-American line-up!
  
  
 My understanding is that since the WA7tp uses these 12au7 in rather a unique way - as rectifier tubes in a power-supply - conventional wisdom of how all these tubes are known to perform may well not apply in this case.   So,  if somebody who is using them in a different amplifier tells you one is "inferior" to the other it might be not be as relevant to use in the WA7tp.  The knowledge I'm drawing on is that of the early WA7tp tube-pioneers on this thread.
  
 I'll post my impressions of all these tubes once I'm up and running and hope you do too, so we can get this thread rolling again! 
  
  
 Jeb.


----------



## Igor01

Jeb, thanks so much for your thoughts and the info!  I feel somewhat reassured now that the JAN's I've purchased shouldn't be a waste.  I too thought of the fact that since these are to be used in a rectifier and not in the amp's signal path the rationale of them not being on par with the Gold brand triple mica ones may not apply.  Either way, it wasn't a huge amount so I won't start pulling my hair out just yet.
  
 I read and re-read this thread and saw the mentions of the Mullard tubes, but so far the feedbacks haven't been quite as compelling as those on the Sylvania's.  This is my first tube amp experience and I want to make sure I follow the upgrade paths tried by the far more experienced members who are much better positioned to assess the pro's and con's and recommend the choices with the most bang for the buck.
  
 To be honest, I am still using my WA7 with the stock Sovtek tubes (even though I have the EH upgrade tubes that Woo Audio sells on their site for $100) and the original solid state power supply.  I just felt that in order to appreciate the differences from tube rolling and using the tube power supply I should first acquaint myself with the sound signature of the stock barebones WA7 unit.  I must say it's pretty darn awesome even now, and if the EH tubes in the amp, as well as the tube power supply with Sylvania tubes are supposed to improve it even further, I plan on introducing the upgrades one by one so I actually hear and understand those differences.  A long (and somewhat masochistic) approach, but I thought I'd be more fun that way...
  
 I love bass (controlled and precise, but impactful) and it looks like most of those who tried the Sylvania JAN tubes in the power supply units report deeper and punchier bass, as well as shaved off treble forwardness, which is just what the doctor ordered for HD800.  I am still unsure what kind of magic happens when different tubes are used in a rectifier which in theory just supplies the DC current, but if it works, I won't be complaining


----------



## Jeb Listens

Igor - I love your approach of introducing just one variable at a time - it's one I intend to follow as well.  I think too much too quickly and it's hard to tell what is doing what. 
  
 Bang for buck is a good way to go.  I've wondered if it's something of a "waste" to be using some of the finer NOS 12au7s as rectifiers - I guess it depends on the effect and the JANs would be a great way to test that.
  
 For the WA7 Most have said stick the EH in right away, so I bought them at the time I got the amp too, but like you i'd like to get to know the stock Sovteks first - partly because, as I understand it,  those EH Gold Pins are no longer in production, so unless another manufacturer takes up the mantle. (which they might),  they _will _run out eventually.  Who knows how many Woo has - maybe enough for all of us for the foreseeable future.  I've also noted that not _everyone_ prefers the EH, although most seem to. 
  
 It's my first tube amp too so I'm really excited about trying the different combinations and having a slice of history in there to supply the magic! Since you are tuning the sound for the HD800 and me for the LCD2 we may well be wanting to do different things but it'd be great to hear how you get on.
  
 One pair i'm looking forward to trying are these that I grabbed for a good price via Ebay: they are new production Psvane 12au7s, gold pins.  I thought it would be good to see how some of the new offerings fair.  I need to check compatibility - I think all 12au7s can be used but not sure if there is any variation in spec. 
  
 Best of luck!
  
 Jeb.


----------



## groovyd

go for the NOS Mullards and never look back.


----------



## frankrondaniel

groovyd said:


> go for the NOS Mullards and never look back.


 
  
 I'm using NOS Mullards as well and very happy with them.  I'm curious about the PSVANE though.


----------



## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> go for the NOS Mullards and never look back.


 
  


frankrondaniel said:


> I'm using NOS Mullards as well and very happy with them.  I'm curious about the PSVANE though.


 

 Could either please add some more specific info on the Mullards
 When I hunt Mullard I find Mitcham , Blackburn , long plate , short plate , box plate , 10M , pinched waist etc
 Many Thanks


----------



## groovyd

Mullard NOS CV4003 Made In Great Britain, cryo treated sold by Upscale Audio.  I don't think you will ever find better.


----------



## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> Mullard NOS CV4003 Made In Great Britain, cryo treated sold by Upscale Audio.  I don't think you will ever find better.


 

 Thanks mate that narrows things down nicely , also known as the "box plate" I believe


----------



## frankrondaniel

groovyd said:


> Mullard NOS CV4003 Made In Great Britain, cryo treated sold by Upscale Audio.  I don't think you will ever find better.


 
  
 That's exactly what I'm using - from Upscale as well.


----------



## abvolt

groovyd said:


> Mullard NOS CV4003 Made In Great Britain, cryo treated sold by Upscale Audio.  I don't think you will ever find better.


 
  
 Thanks for the post I'll be sure to check these out..


----------



## greenedeere

I listened to the Woo Audio WA7 at the Nashville head phone meet last year and it was my favorite "take away" from the meet.  Still planning to add one to my collection!


----------



## dL.

greenedeere said:


> I listened to the Woo Audio WA7 at the Nashville head phone meet last year and it was my favorite "take away" from the meet.  Still planning to add one to my collection!


 

 Nice to hear! What was your impression of it?
  
 dL


----------



## Igor01

Trying the Sylvania JAN5814A tubes in my power supply and contrary to what I was expecting the stock tubes sound better to me - the Sylvanias tend to exaggerate bass and bring treble too forward.  I prefer the tighter controlled and more defined bass with the stock tubes.  The high frequency sparkle which makes HD800 such a wonderful high precision acoustic instrument is also strangely muffled or shaved off from the very top.  I am hoping that burn-in will make some difference.
  
 Edit:  I was getting a nagging feeling that the sound is reminding me of something and just got it - the HD800 are sounding strangely similar to HD580 - bigger but looser bass and veiled top...  It almost sounds like the sound is being EQ'd.  There's also some congested feeling in the mid-treble.  Well, all the enthusiastic Sylvania users can't be wrong, so I'll give them time to settle in (or myself to get used to the sound, whichever the case may be).


----------



## abvolt

Every time I try a different tubes takes me like 2 week before I really notice a difference, These sound very nice for me, 5814A / 12AU7 siemans -->  https://tubedepot.com/products/5814a-12au7-siemens I also have these coming tomorrow Mullard CV4003 --> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/


----------



## greenedeere

I'm not an audio engineer and get a glazed look in my eyes when I try to interpret the charts and measurement provided with technical reviews, I just know what I like to listen to.  Today I have a Maple Shade tube amp and definitely have a bias toward tubes.  The best description I can give of the WA7 is pure, totally clear music and silky, warm sound.  The lack of any perceptible distortion made is a treat to sit closed eyed and focus on each instrument individually and experience the incredible sound stage.  Although I couldn't listen for hours on end (they'd have kicked me out of the show) I found myself going back to listen more.  I often develop some "fatigue" after extended listening but never had a hint of it with the WA7.  And let's face it, that is one stunningly beautiful piece of equipment.  It's like a piece of "audio artwork"!   I WILL have one!


----------



## abvolt

love your description of the wa7 as " pure, totally clear music and silky, warm sound." Couldn't have said any better..


----------



## olegausany

abvolt said:


> love your description of the wa7 as " pure, totally clear music and silky, warm sound." Couldn't have said any better..



Especially when you can do tube rolling to get sound signature you want


----------



## HiFiGuy528

greenedeere said:


> I'm not an audio engineer and get a glazed look in my eyes when I try to interpret the charts and measurement provided with technical reviews, I just know what I like to listen to.  Today I have a Maple Shade tube amp and definitely have a bias toward tubes.  The best description I can give of the WA7 is pure, totally clear music and silky, warm sound.  The lack of any perceptible distortion made is a treat to sit closed eyed and focus on each instrument individually and experience the incredible sound stage.  Although I couldn't listen for hours on end (they'd have kicked me out of the show) I found myself going back to listen more.  I often develop some "fatigue" after extended listening but never had a hint of it with the WA7.  And let's face it, that is one stunningly beautiful piece of equipment.  It's like a piece of "audio artwork"!   I WILL have one!


 
  
 We're happy to hear you got a chance to audition WA7.  It is quite a performer for its size.  
  
 My personal WA7 system:


----------



## fudgebucket27

Is the WA7tp supposed to run like really hot? The base of it has a fair bit of warmth to it compared to the top glass section. Apart from that I'm loving it with my HD700s!


----------



## groovyd

same here... very hot base, cool top.
  
 @mike so i'm not the only one who wishes the 1/8" output had the same gain as the 1/4


----------



## abvolt

mine runs warm also but always assumed all tube amps did that especially any power supplies they might use..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

groovyd said:


> same here... very hot base, cool top.
> 
> @mike so i'm not the only one who wishes the 1/8" output had the same gain as the 1/4


 
  
 I use 1/4" with IEMs.  The output is dead silent so no reason not to.


----------



## groovyd

hifiguy528 said:


> I use 1/4" with IEMs.  The output is dead silent so no reason not to.


 

 same here, just wish the 1/8 out were the same gain.  the volume knob is also easy to turn down but i find the more demanding iems i use (ER-4s and even the T5p) tend to prefer higher gain of the 1/4"


----------



## kugino

don't really need it, but thinking about jumping on the massdrop buy for the wa7...still undecided on the wa7tp, though i'm sure i'll end up getting it. someone please tell me a reason NOT to get the wa7tp...anyone?


----------



## melanor9

Hi gents,
  
 Its really nice to see this community rolling. Its nice to be a  part of it and WA7's are amazingly looking and sounding unit (let us forget The Knob ), however I have  An itch for fully balanced setup.
 WA22 + M-DAC +  hd800   on 3-pins xlr all the way out.   I already have   M-DAC sitting in a living room and there is a tempting  proposition for  WA22 in a classfields. Please stop me, while its     not...  too late...


----------



## kugino

melanor9 said:


> Hi gents,
> 
> Its really nice to see this community rolling. Its nice to be a  part of it and WA7's are amazingly looking and sounding unit (let us forget The Knob ), however I have  An itch for fully balanced setup.
> WA22 + M-DAC +  hd800   on 3-pins xlr all the way out.   I already have   M-DAC sitting in a living room and there is a tempting  proposition for  WA22 in a classfields. Please stop me, while its     not...  too late...


 

 that'll be a very nice setup. i'm all for it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 FWIW, i've had fully balanced setups a few different times and somehow always go back to SE...don't know why, just happens that way. good luck!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kugino said:


> don't really need it, but thinking about jumping on the massdrop buy for the wa7...still undecided on the wa7tp, though i'm sure i'll end up getting it. someone please tell me a reason NOT to get the wa7tp...anyone?


 
  
 You can purchase WA7tp at a later date.  The cost is $649 + shipping.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

melanor9 said:


> Hi gents,
> 
> Its really nice to see this community rolling. Its nice to be a  part of it and WA7's are amazingly looking and sounding unit (let us forget The Knob ), however I have  An itch for fully balanced setup.
> WA22 + M-DAC +  hd800   on 3-pins xlr all the way out.   I already have   M-DAC sitting in a living room and there is a tempting  proposition for  WA22 in a classfields. Please stop me, while its     not...  too late...


 
  
 Consider our WDS-1 reference DAC.  It doesn't have all the bells and whistles as other DACs on the market, but if it's the sound you're after, WDS-1 will not disappoint.


----------



## abvolt

Can you tell us what dac chip the wds-1 uses & is it the same dac used today as when it was released.  How about some pics of it's innards, I can't find any thanks..


----------



## Jeb Listens

abvolt said:


> Can you tell us what dac chip the wds-1 uses & is it the same dac used today as when it was released.  How about some pics of it's innards, I can't find any thanks..




abvolt, that would be my dream DAC ! Are you considering getting it for your wa7 set-up ? Most likely that would be my next upgrade.


----------



## melanor9

Wow, I'll double that. Tell us why it came out so sweet and what philosophy/board logic is behind it.
 M-DAC is pretty damn sweet to my ears, its just not powerful enough (tad lil' bit) to drive hd800.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We can talk DAC chips all day and name drop parts brands, but at the end of the day it's the final result that matters - the music.  I urge you to give WDS-1 a try.  We don't make products with fancy parts to catch eyeballs.  We design and build solid, tried and true, no gimmicks, timeless products.


----------



## groovyd

that may be true but most equipment fanatics like to know what makes a product great on the inside.  at the end of the day most of us are geeks and enjoy the blinky lights.  i'd love to see internal shots of Woo products, especially the WA7+tp as those are what I have.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

groovyd said:


> that may be true but most equipment fanatics like to know what makes a product great on the inside.  at the end of the day most of us are geeks and enjoy the blinky lights.  i'd love to see internal shots of Woo products, especially the WA7+tp as those are what I have.


 
  
 We designed a custom screw head and tool for WA7 so people can't open it.  We're chiefs with a secret recipe.


----------



## Jeb Listens

hifiguy528 said:


> We designed a custom screw head and tool for WA7 so people can't open it.  We're chiefs with a secret recipe.


 
  
 inside the WA7 is a smaller WA7.  Inside that one a smaller one.   Then a smaller one.   Then a smaller one.  And a smaller one. 
  
  
 In all seriousness though, the WDS-1 is one of only a couple of DACs I could imagine wanting to share desk-space with my WA7 + WA7tp.    However, I always thought it would be cool if Woo released a standalone upgraded (tube) DAC in the same style case as the WA7.  Imagine three of these units lined up on a desk.
  
  
 Maybe one day......


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

jeb listens said:


> inside the WA7 is a smaller WA7.  Inside that one a smaller one.   Then a smaller one.   Then a smaller one.  And a smaller one.


 
  
 It's WA7's all the way down! lol


----------



## HemiSam

@abvolt
  
 Just look at Woo's website http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wds1.html  You'll see they use a Texas Instruments PCM 1795 http://www.ti.com/product/pcm1795
  
  
 HS


----------



## groovyd

hifiguy528 said:


> We designed a custom screw head and tool for WA7 so people can't open it.  We're chiefs with a secret recipe.


 

 Doesn't really stop the thief, only the curious.


----------



## malla1ml

Hey everyone, I've been eyeballing this for setup for quite a while and with the Massdrop currently going on, I decided to join the fun.  Aside from the Mullards and Sylvania's, does anyone have any recommendations for other tubes to try from upscaleaudio?  I've already got the Mullards in my cart but I really hate to pay for shipping since I'm so close to free shipping.  My current cans are LCD-2 rev1, LCD-3f, TH-900, K7XX, HE-500 and hoping to add the HD800's down the road.  I typically enjoy more of a warm/dark sound but I'm open to trying different sound signatures.  Since I'm new to tubes any help would be appreciated!


----------



## groovyd

get 2 sets incase you have an issue with one.  eventually you will be glad you did.


----------



## abvolt

I'm with you Jeb Listens & would love to own the wds-1, It would be nice to know more about the inner working before one spends 1200. on a dac. Most makers of fine audio gear like to show off their designs. Oh yes a tube dac from Woo would be very sweet indeed.
  
 I've heard that mike has a large collection of audio gear probably already owns the wds-1 lets take it a part & see how it works maybe take some pics too -->Lol only joking, goovyd said it best most of us really are geeks & just curious..


----------



## Hififox

Hi all I have a same question as above, my cans are K701 and HD600. And one more question that I'm new to tubes world so I like to know where did you guys purchase the tubes? Thanks!


----------



## abvolt

There are too many to name but here are a few, TubeDepot, Upscale Audio, TC Tubes you can get a lot of info from TubeWorld also enjoy &  have fun..


----------



## groovyd

A tube based DAC/pre-amp would be cool... might make me reconsider my D100


----------



## HiFiGuy528

tube reference DAC is certainly interesting.


----------



## groovyd

introducing the WA7tdac or WA7td


----------



## abvolt

I'd definitely buy one..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I urge/challenge everyone to compare WA7's internal DAC against DACs costing up to $999 *on sound alone*.  You'll be surprised and pleased to know how well WA7's internal DAC stacks up.  Just use the analog RCA input on back of WA7 and switch to RCA on the 3-postiion switch.  This will turn WA7 into standalone headphone amplifier. 
  
 Ask yourself if you're enjoying music or are you just hearing sound.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks for telling us that mike, I'll give it a try but I have the wa7d will that still work for me..


----------



## malla1ml

groovyd said:


> get 2 sets incase you have an issue with one.  eventually you will be glad you did.


 
  
 Thanks, I now have two sets of Mullards on the way.  Also picked up the Sylvania JANs and RCA clear tops because they weren't overly expensive.  Now I see why you guys talk about having a drawer dedicated just to tubes... but this adds some fun I wasn't expecting.  Can't wait to get my setup and see what other kinds of tubes others try out.  Would you guys recommend upgrading to the WA7d or stick with the original?  I hardly ever use toslink and when I do, it's for gaming. I can't imagine I would ever plug my PS4 directly into my WA7 without first going through my X7 or mixamp.  Anyone else have buyers remorse afterwards? Or wish they had the toslink ability?


----------



## flacre

hemisam said:


> The piece on my WA7 has a small bit of movement, but it is locked in nicely...not coming out.  It is a non-issue.
> 
> HS


 
  
  


dl. said:


> So yours is the WA7 that has small movement but the TP top plate is fine? If so, then I guess it's just variance then.
> 
> Has anyone also had a white spark on one of the tubes for the TP unit? When I first powered it up, it was fine. Then the second time, one of the tube sparked some white light for a split second but everything seems fine. Could it be because I'm using a crappy power cable?
> 
> dL


 
  
 I've noticed that if I turn the volume control right down before powering up the TP unit I don't get that white light flash when I turn it on.  Curious to see if that works for you as well.
  
 fc


----------



## fobboy

Anyone know how to actually order the wa7tp by itself?  I have the WA7 from before 4/21/2014 (should still be eligible for the special offer).  I e-mailed info@wooaudio.com with the S/N asking for a quote for shipping to my location, but I haven't heard back yet.  
  
 Anyone know who to contact or e-mail?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

fobboy said:


> Anyone know how to actually order the wa7tp by itself?  I have the WA7 from before 4/21/2014 (should still be eligible for the special offer).  I e-mailed info@wooaudio.com with the S/N asking for a quote for shipping to my location, but I haven't heard back yet.
> 
> Anyone know who to contact or e-mail?


 
  
 Sorry if we haven't respond to you.  Somehow we did not get your inquiry.  Please resend to mike@wooaudio.com and I'll provide you with purchasing info.


----------



## musictoear

If I buy the wa7d, can I use this rca input and use it as a standalone amp?


----------



## abvolt

No the RCA inputs on the WA7d are just that another input you would have to get the WA7 to use that option. The WA7d offers an optical input that's the difference in the 2..


----------



## musictoear

Thank you for the info. I am guessing you did try it and it did not work with your wa7d. I read your post. You do prefer the optical cable or just the usb?


----------



## abvolt

musictoear said:


> Thank you for the info. I am guessing you did try it and it did not work with your wa7d. I read your post. You do prefer the optical cable or just the usb?


 
  
 I have tried it if you mean connecting an external dac to my WA7d through the RCA inputs. It works fine but for me the sound signature changed so much I really didn't care for it. But it could also be the older Nuforce dac-80 I have. The thought of connecting two dac's together is a little weird not sure if one should even do that, maybe someone with more experience could lets us know.
  
 Bottom line is if you plan to someday use an external dac then go with the WA7 + WA7tp that's just my opinion..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

abvolt said:


> No the RCA inputs on the WA7d are just that another input you would have to get the WA7 to use that option. The WA7d offers an optical input that's the difference in the 2..


 
  
 Quote:


musictoear said:


> If I buy the wa7d, can I use this rca input and use it as a standalone amp?


 
  
 Yes, WA7d features RCA analog input for external analog sources.  WA7d does NOT feature RCA output like on WA7.
  


abvolt said:


> I have tried it if you mean connecting an external dac to my WA7d through the RCA inputs. It works fine but for me the sound signature changed so much I really didn't care for it. But it could also be the older Nuforce dac-80 I have. The thought of connecting two dac's together is a little weird not sure if one should even do that, maybe someone with more experience could lets us know.
> 
> Bottom line is if you plan to someday use an external dac then go with the WA7 + WA7tp that's just my opinion..


 
  
 That turns WA7d into a standalone headphone amp so the sound from your digital source is processed by external DAC.  Which may be better OR worst than internal DAC.


----------



## abvolt

Wow thanks for the reply mike I did not know I could use the RCA inputs on my WA7d (I knew one could with the WA7), for an  external dac very good to know..


----------



## melanor9

I just recieved pair of Russian reissue Mullards  12AU7  ECC82
  
 http://hificomponents.ru/magazin/product/-radiolampa-12au7/ecc82-mullard
 http://hificomponents.ru/d/730601/d/Mullard_12AU7_-_ECC82.jpg
  
 Its being heard that NewSensor bought all the equipment along with brand name from UK's Mullard and started reissue. 
 Rumors are rumors, but i found them extremely drunk on highs and it didn't made hd800 as pleasant as stock Woo tubes (i have no idea what they are, my unit is pretty new and this 12AU7 marked as "Woo tested".
  
  
 Question is... should i give them another 10 hours and see if they develop better sound or should i just avoid them altogether ?


----------



## melanor9

Hi gents,
  
 I've just had two hour run with  russian reissue Mullard's ECC82  (http://hificomponents.ru/magazin/product/-radiolampa-12au7/ecc82-mullard)
 And they are pretty much drunk on highs. Very unpleasant with HD800. Bass its just paper-thin.
  
 The rumor is  that this mullards are not just a "brand-spin" but an original equipment that was brought to Russia, Well....
  
 Question is - should i give them some more burn-in time or they are just hopless?


----------



## abvolt

melanor9 said:


> I just recieved pair of Russian reissue Mullards  12AU7  ECC82
> 
> http://hificomponents.ru/magazin/product/-radiolampa-12au7/ecc82-mullard
> http://hificomponents.ru/d/730601/d/Mullard_12AU7_-_ECC82.jpg
> ...


 
  
 I think giving them more time is a good idea, I usually like to play mine for about a week even more sometimes. I listen to my amp 4-6 hours a day just to give an example of the time it may take for a proper  burn in. I've never tried these tubes I'll take a look thanks for the post..


----------



## fudgebucket27

Alright bought me a pair of those Sylvania jans! Can't wait for them to come.


----------



## Igor01

After having tried the Sylvania Jans in my WA7tp and not being too happy with the result (veiled highs and bloated loose base compared to the stock tubes) I took them out and ran with the stock tubes for a while.  But then got curious and decided to try the Sylvania tubes again but first clean the pins as they had quite a bit of oxydation on them.  Well, cleaner pins seem to make a big difference - I actually like the sound now more than the stock tubes, the bass is dynamic, punchy and the highs are clear.  HD800 sound good with the Sylvania's (the highs are not shrill and fatiguing) but the LCD-XC is now a bass monster with a lot of impact and body to the lows.
  
 Those of you who tried both the Sylvania's and the NOS Mullard CV4003's - would you say that the Mullards are a definite upgrade from the Jans?  Should one go for the cryo-treated ones or regular?  And where is the best price to get them?


----------



## groovyd

to me the mullards are a cleaner tighter jan.  jan is better for a basshead but the mullards are more controlled and even handed at both extremes.


----------



## abvolt

Just curious if anyone here has tried any of the vintage Cifte 12AU7's , I will agree with groovyd the Mullards are soo nice hard to get away from to try anything else..


----------



## frankrondaniel

abvolt said:


> Just curious if anyone here has tried any of the vintage Cifte 12AU7's , I will agree with groovyd the Mullards are soo nice hard to get away from to try anything else..


 
  
 I don't have them anymore, but my recollection is that they were somewhat thin and bright, maybe a little harsh on the top end?  Again, that's from memory though. I much prefer the Mullard CV4003.


----------



## abvolt

frankrondaniel said:


> I don't have them anymore, but my recollection is that they were somewhat thin and bright, maybe a little harsh on the top end?  Again, that's from memory though. I much prefer the Mullard CV4003.


 
  
 Thanks for your impressions on those tubes, the mullards I feel are the best I've tried so far..


----------



## rick216

Where did you guys buy your Mullards  12AU7??


----------



## abvolt

Here's where I get mine -->http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
  
 They are just awesome sounding, You'll really enjoy these..


----------



## frankrondaniel

I likewise purchased my Mullards from Upscale - good place to buy them.


----------



## fobboy

How long did it take for your tubes to ship from upscale audio?  My order still says awaiting fulfillment from 2 days ago/


----------



## abvolt

fobboy said:


> How long did it take for your tubes to ship from upscale audio?  My order still says awaiting fulfillment from 2 days ago/


 
  
 usually when I place an order it only takes 3 -5 days & it's at my door..


----------



## rick216

Did you guys get the tubes cryogenically treated?


----------



## zeloutre

Just received Mullard tubes for the tp, platinum grade, cryo treated. I have no point of comparison to the other options (gold, no cryo) so cannot say if it changes anything. Went for the 'pour a bit more money just in case' stupidity syndrome. In the end the sound is incredible.


----------



## malla1ml

What does everyone use to clean their tubes?  DeoxIT gold vacuum tube survival kit?  Or something else?


----------



## groovyd

I used Deox red to clean and then gold for the gold pins.  It did a good job of removing oxidation from the NOS Mullard pins but to be honest they came practically like new and needed very little cleaning.


----------



## rick216

Are these the mullard tubes you guys have?
  
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-12AU7-ECC82-TUBES-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/130295387885


----------



## frankrondaniel

rick216 said:


> Are these the mullard tubes you guys have?
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-12AU7-ECC82-TUBES-NOS-MATCHED-PAIR-/130295387885


 
  
 This is what I have:
  
 http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
  
 I'm not sure if they're the same as what you found on ebay.


----------



## Dogmatrix

They are the same tube
 Also M8136 Mullard is identical construction but domestic issue rather than gov surplus
 Langrex UK have both types


----------



## abvolt

rick216 said:


> Did you guys get the tubes cryogenically treated?


 
  
 I have not tried the cryo treated yet but soon I'm getting a pair just to see if there's a difference,I'll let you know when I get them..


----------



## mikroski

I consider to buy WA7tp. And need some advise from users. How much it will improve from standard power supply, in case that I use its stock tube for WA7tp?
 Which area does it make an improvement (sound stage, clarity, details, bass, mid, high)?
  
 I have no idea about tube, and when I search in ebay, I found thousand of tubes and not know which good which bad. Noted that I live in Asia, and not comfortable to order tube from on line store in US.
  
 Thank you for any comment. And will be more appreciate if anyone can recommend 12AU7 tube on Ebay with good performance


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> I consider to buy WA7tp. And need some advise from users. How much it will improve from standard power supply, in case that I use its stock tube for WA7tp?
> Which area does it make an improvement (sound stage, clarity, details, bass, mid, high)?
> 
> I have no idea about tube, and when I search in ebay, I found thousand of tubes and not know which good which bad. Noted that I live in Asia, and not comfortable to order tube from on line store in US.
> ...


 
  
 It will improve the quality in all areas you mentioned plus it will give you the added benefit of tube rolling which lets you customize the sound the way you like. It is well worth the added cost, Just a few different tubes will make all the difference..  ( Lol -->I live in Asia, and not comfortable to order tube from on line store in US. funny but I understand)..


----------



## Dogmatrix

I have been slowly rolling back and forth between stock Woo Select tubes and subs working on a big comparison post , came across something special so I will do a quick summary
  
 Raytheon 12au7 long gloss black plates , nothing special and four out of five threw an arc would rate as a downgrade from stock
  
 Philips Mini Watt 12au7 , nice tube very clean clear sound but only marginal upgrade from stock
  
 GE Mobile Radio 6680/12au7a , this one was the big surprise big lift in weight and the most articulate bass I have heard so far . Compared to the Sylvania 5814a it has even more punch which extends across the full range . Highly recommended , can be tricky to find the Mobile Radio version but they are cheap (I paid $50 Au for a sleeve of five nos inc shipping)
  
 So far in order of preference
  
 GE Mobile Radio 6680/12au7
 Mazda E82cc (silver slotted plate)
 RCA 12au7 (clear top)
 Sylvania 5814A
 Woo Select 12au7 (stock)
 Philips Mini Watt 12au7
 Super Radiotron 12au7
 GE JG 5814A
 Raytheon 12au7
  
 I have a pair of Mullard CV4003 (box plate) on the way and will post my full comparison once they have been assessed


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@Dogmatrix  nice to see our stock tubes compares well.


----------



## abvolt

dogmatrix said:


> I have been slowly rolling back and forth between stock Woo Select tubes and subs working on a big comparison post , came across something special so I will do a quick summary
> 
> Raytheon 12au7 long gloss black plates , nothing special and four out of five threw an arc would rate as a downgrade from stock
> 
> ...


 
  
 You've got a nice set of tubes, I think you'll find that mullards will be the favorites out of all, anxious to hear your impressions..


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> mikroski said:
> 
> 
> > I consider to buy WA7tp. And need some advise from users. How much it will improve from standard power supply, in case that I use its stock tube for WA7tp?
> ...


 
 Thanks abvoit!! After post, I think that, ok I should trust all comments of headfier here. So I jump to store yesterday afternoon (East Asia time). Leave it on and play Isotek burn-in for around 20 hours.
  
 I think that it sound more fluid, more sound like single end tube amp compare to PSU, and what I appreciate most is its background that very good. Happy now and will start for adding some tubes
  

  
  


dogmatrix said:


> I have been slowly rolling back and forth between stock Woo Select tubes and subs working on a big comparison post , came across something special so I will do a quick summary
> 
> Raytheon 12au7 long gloss black plates , nothing special and four out of five threw an arc would rate as a downgrade from stock
> 
> ...


 

 This is very good, thank you very much


----------



## abvolt

Very cool glad to hear you like..


----------



## johnKenneth

mikroski said:


> I consider to buy WA7tp. And need some advise from users. How much it will improve from standard power supply, in case that I use its stock tube for WA7tp?
> 
> 
> Which area does it make an improvement (sound stage, clarity, details, bass, mid, high)?
> ...



 


I know someone who ordered from Singapore Adelphi. If you live there, try it. It is one of the biggest shopping mall full of audiophile devices and accessories.


----------



## mikroski

johnkenneth said:


> I know someone who ordered from Singapore Adelphi. If you live there, try it. It is one of the biggest shopping mall full of audiophile devices and accessories.


 
 Thanks, anyhow, I live in Thailand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just order NOS SYLVANIA JAN 5814A today. One thing I do hate about tp is its push button. Feel like cheap equipment.


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> Thanks, anyhow, I live in Thailand
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would agree with you that the power button doesn't feel like other amps, But remember Woo Audio does have a stellar reputation so I'm sure it's just as it should be fine. Also glad to hear your getting yourself some tubes to try awesome..
  
 I understand you don't like buying in the US market but these people are really excellent I don't know anything about their shipping policy you could check them out. This is where I get my vintage mullards CV4003's..
 -->  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/


----------



## mikroski

> Originally Posted by *abvolt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I would agree with you that the power button doesn't feel like other amps, But remember Woo Audio does have a stellar reputation so I'm sure it's just as it should be fine. Also glad to hear your getting yourself some tubes to try awesome..
> 
> I understand you don't like buying in the US market but these people are really excellent I don't know anything about their shipping policy you could check them out. This is where I get my vintage mullards CV4003's..
> -->  http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/


 
 Thank you very much, very appreciate for your kindness
  
 I will keep Mullard in my short list with Genalex Gold Lion and RCA Clear Top.
  
 I will wait until I get SYLVANIA and see whether I like it or not. I just pre-order Audeze EL-8, it's a blind buy. So I will wait until I get EL8 in March, then it will be a time for tube rolling.


----------



## johnKenneth

mikroski
  
 Have you tried the Woo Audio with Audio Technica ATHMsr7?  I asked because you seem to have a lot of Audio Technica's.


----------



## fudgebucket27

My Sylvanias came! Just gotta wait for my WA7tp to cool down before I put these bad boys in


----------



## abvolt

fudgebucket27 said:


> My Sylvanias came! Just gotta wait for my WA7tp to cool down before I put these bad boys in


 
  
 very cool I'm sure you'll enjoy give us your impressions after you've had some time with them..


----------



## mikroski

johnkenneth said:


> mikroski
> 
> Have you tried the Woo Audio with Audio Technica ATHMsr7?  I asked because you seem to have a lot of Audio Technica's.


 
 Dear  John, I never try WA7 with ATHMsr7.
  
 I'm considering between Mullard and GE. Have no idea on both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Will both tubes be an upgrade from Silvania? Or just a different sonic?
  
 Anyhow, I'm happy with stock tube for vocal. But I need more clarity for contemporary jazz and classical music
  
 I took picture of this combo yesterday


----------



## HiFiGuy528

mikroski said:


> Dear  John, I never try WA7 with ATHMsr7.
> 
> I'm considering between Mullard and GE. Have no idea on both
> 
> ...


 
  
 beautiful shot!


----------



## rage3324

Is there a recommended gauge for the tube power supply cord? I am not trying to spend a fortune on the cord, just looking to get started. I have a few extra PS3/PC IEC cords around but am willing to spend $20 on a starter cable


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> Dear  John, I never try WA7 with ATHMsr7.
> 
> I'm considering between Mullard and GE. Have no idea on both
> 
> ...


 
  
 Really nice pics of your WA7/tp, I listen to a lot of jazz also the I found the vintage Seimans E82CC/12AU7 to work great, very clear mids and the bass is one of the best i've heard. After a time of listening to your amp with different tubes you may find that the Woo stock tubes are harsh they are for me at least..


----------



## Dogmatrix

mikroski said:


> Dear  John, I never try WA7 with ATHMsr7.
> 
> I'm considering between Mullard and GE. Have no idea on both
> 
> ...


 
 Certainly more a question of different sonic more than upgrade with all the tubes
 Magnitude of difference is high with the Sylvania compared to the other 12au7 types so that will give you an idea on how much change you can get
 For me the RCA cleartop gave the best clarity but I have not tried the Mullard yet


----------



## HiFiGuy528

rage3324 said:


> Is there a recommended gauge for the tube power supply cord? I am not trying to spend a fortune on the cord, just looking to get started. I have a few extra PS3/PC IEC cords around but am willing to spend $20 on a starter cable


 
  
 18-14 gauge are fine.  You can get a generic for less than $11 on Amazon.


----------



## groovyd

agree, cleartops for best clarity.


----------



## abvolt

I would also agree that the RCA cleartops are nice, but  they are on the bright side, it really depends on your cans. I can't use this tube with my ps500's it makes them overly bright..


----------



## frankrondaniel

abvolt said:


> I would also agree that the RCA cleartops are nice, but  they are on the bright side, it really depends on your cans. I can't use this tube with my ps500's it makes them overly bright..


 
  
 I agree with you that they're on the bright side - especially with HD800's.  I find that the Mullards are a much better match.


----------



## groovyd

mullards for the all around win but if you want to focus on the highs the cleartops let you do that.


----------



## mikroski

May be I will try GE or Mullard for W5000 and RCA Clear Top for Audeze EL-8.
  
 I will wait until I get EL-8 to see whether it as warm as LCD2.2 or not.


----------



## rage3324

hifiguy528 said:


> 18-14 gauge are fine.  You can get a generic for less than $11 on Amazon.


 
 15 amps is what I want, correct? What about volts? 110, 125? I believe the manual indicates 110v..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

rage3324 said:


> 15 amps is what I want, correct? What about volts? 110, 125? I believe the manual indicates 110v..


 
  
 for generic, this would work fine.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Heavy-Duty-IEC-320-C13-P007-006/dp/B0027JRMD0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1423699927&sr=8-2&keywords=IEC+power+cord


----------



## dL.

hifiguy528 said:


> for generic, this would work fine.
> 
> http://www.nordost.com/products/power-cords/norse/heimdall-2-ac-power-cord.php


 
  
 Fixed link for you, Mike 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 think you posted the wrong one haha.
  
 dL


----------



## abvolt

dl. said:


> Fixed link for you, Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder if we can this one for 7 bucks also Lol..


----------



## mikroski

From tubeworld
  

  
 Just order GE NOS, hope that its sound will be detailed/articulate/warm as described


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> From tubeworld
> 
> 
> 
> Just order GE NOS, hope that its sound will be detailed/articulate/warm as described


 
  
 Be sure to let us know your impressions on that tube thanks..


----------



## fudgebucket27

Okay, I've had some time burning in the Sylvania JANs. As everyone has commented previously the bass is like WOW! Deep and hits hards. I feel like the soundstage on my headphones are just a bit wider as well too? Also the treble seems to be rolled off a bit more which is good since I have the HD700s lol. Get these tubes lads 
  
 I'm going to finally put in the Electro Harmonix 6C45 in the WA7. The stock tubes for the WA7 actually sound pretty good but I'll see how these fair then!


----------



## Dogmatrix

mikroski said:
			
		

> Just order GE NOS, hope that its sound will be detailed/articulate/warm as described


 
 Nothing in my experience so far has contradicted the tube world table , indeed the GE 6680 tubes I have in presently could be described as "detailed/articulate/warm"
  
 Just bought a pair of  "Ten" 12au7 from Japan
 Anyone else tried any Japanese tubes Matsu****a , Toshiba etc ? 
  
 That's hilarious you can go on about Schiit all day long but the program wont allow Matsu****a


----------



## HiFiGuy528

dl. said:


> Fixed link for you, Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 LOL.....


----------



## abvolt

fudgebucket27 said:


> Okay, I've had some time burning in the Sylvania JANs. As everyone has commented previously the bass is like WOW! Deep and hits hards. I feel like the soundstage on my headphones are just a bit wider as well too? Also the treble seems to be rolled off a bit more which is good since I have the HD700s lol. Get these tubes lads
> 
> I'm going to finally put in the Electro Harmonix 6C45 in the WA7. The stock tubes for the WA7 actually sound pretty good but I'll see how these fair then!


 
  
 Nice to hear you like the  Sylvania JANs I've never tried them yet but that going to change I'll be getting myself a pair..


----------



## mikroski

> Be sure to let us know your impressions on that tube thanks..


 
 Sure, I will get GE next week. Will write something about JAN and GE
  


dogmatrix said:


> Nothing in my experience so far has contradicted the tube world table , indeed the GE 6680 tubes I have in presently could be described as "detailed/articulate/warm"
> 
> Just bought a pair of  "Ten" 12au7 from Japan
> Anyone else tried any Japanese tubes Matsu****a , Toshiba etc ?
> ...


 
 That's great
  
 P.S. test for Matsushi.ta


----------



## rage3324

Is the power button supposed to feel loose and jiggle?


----------



## abvolt

I keep thinking it's going to fall off.Mine is the same way..


----------



## dL.

rage3324 said:


> Is the power button supposed to feel loose and jiggle?


 

 Mine has a tiny bit of play if I purposefully wiggle it, but it's definitely not loose and jiggly, and this is coming from someone with some level of OCD-ness. (right HiFiGuy528?)
  
 Definitely doesn't feel like it's about to fall off, but it does feel "cheaper" compared to the rest of the presentation and other knobs, buttons, etc.
  
 dL


----------



## groovyd

The power supply button is the biggest negative of the combo.  It really should have been a normal turn switch with damping same as the volume control.


----------



## abvolt

groovyd said:


> The power supply button is the biggest negative of the combo.  It really should have been a normal turn switch with damping same as the volume control.


 
  
 Absolutely I agree it should have been just like the wa6se's switch..


----------



## malla1ml

abvolt said:


> Absolutely I agree it should have been just like the wa6se's switch..



+1 only piece that feels unrefined/unpolished


----------



## groovyd

it was probably cheaper this way


----------



## Jeb Listens

abvolt said:


> Absolutely I agree it should have been just like the wa6se's switch..




I'm imagining this kind of turn switch with a reassuring click. There could be a discreet power light in the bottom right corner of the unit in the same orange colour as the tube LEDs.

In addition, as you continue to turn the power switch the tubes lights would gradually begin to glow like a dimmer-switch, reaching full luminescence at maximum turn, allowing you to set the ambient mood to your own taste.

I know, I don't ask for much.


----------



## vasunshine

jeb listens said:


> I'm imagining this kind of turn switch with a reassuring click. There could be a discreet power light in the bottom right corner of the unit in the same orange colour as the tube LEDs.
> 
> In addition, as you continue to turn the power switch the tubes lights would gradually begin to glow like a dimmer-switch, reaching full luminescence at maximum turn, allowing you to set the ambient mood to your own taste.
> 
> I know, I don't ask for much.




Such a Unit could be named wa7dtp (d for dream) and priced the same as wa7d.


----------



## Jeb Listens

vasunshine said:


> Such a Unit could be named wa7dtp (d for dream) and priced the same as wa7d.




lol, superb, I love it.


----------



## rage3324

Is there a tube rolling guide/post in one of the WA7 threads that details some of the tubes sound signatures?


----------



## abvolt

rage3324 said:


> Is there a tube rolling guide/post in one of the WA7 threads that details some of the tubes sound signatures?


 
 The only ones i'm aware of are this thread & this one  http://www.head-fi.org/t/649097/woo-hoooo-wa7-fireflies
 other boards might not sure though..


----------



## malla1ml

rage3324 said:


> Is there a tube rolling guide/post in one of the WA7 threads that details some of the tubes sound signatures?


 
  
 When I was looking myself, there were 3 main tubes that multiple people tried and enjoyed for the WA7tp.  RCA clear tops for a brighter sound, Sylvania JANs for more low end and the overall winner seems to be the Mullards.  As far as the WA7 goes, the Electro Harmonix gold pins from Woo Audio are a pretty significant upgrade.  There aren't many tubes available for the WA7.


----------



## rage3324

malla1ml said:


> When I was looking myself, there were 3 main tubes that multiple people tried and enjoyed for the WA7tp.  RCA clear tops for a brighter sound, Sylvania JANs for more low end and the overall winner seems to be the Mullards.  As far as the WA7 goes, the Electro Harmonix gold pins from Woo Audio are a pretty significant upgrade.  There aren't many tubes available for the WA7.


 
 Thanks! I could have sworn I saw a little mini chart of someone breaking down the different tubes in this thread but I can't seem to find it.


----------



## olegausany

That chart was for 12AU7 tubes used in the power supply not the amp


----------



## mikroski

This is for tp
  

  


rage3324 said:


> Thanks! I could have sworn I saw a little mini chart of someone breaking down the different tubes in this thread but I can't seem to find it.


----------



## dL.

Did they raise the price? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
  
 I thought it was $75 before...
  
 dL


----------



## malla1ml

dl. said:


> Did they raise the price? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
> 
> I thought it was $75 before...
> 
> dL


 
  
 Yep, looks like it. Quite a jump in price.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Quote:
  


> Did they raise the price? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
> 
> I thought it was $75 before...
> 
> dL


 
  
  
 Hi dl - That's pricey - with tubes it's a question of supply and demand, I suppose.  When using a fine and precious piece of equipment like the WA7 I can totally understand the desire to buy these tubes from an upstanding place like Upscale where they have rigorous testing and will match the tubes and even cryo treat them.
  
 However, just a couple of things to bear in mind:
  
 1) Matching 6C45s is said to be "beneficial" but matching pairs of rectifier tubes in the tube power supply is not as critical.  
  
 2) NOS CV4003s can be found on eBay for $35-40 each, tested but sold as singles. 
  
  
 Just something to consider.  I bought 4 for $150.  The seller seemed sound and was unable to do matching pairs but was happy to test the tubes prior to sending to make sure they were testing as "new".  Feedback was 100% and full of people buying many of these tubes and very happy with them.  They arrived for me in perfect condition, original boxes, with shiny clean pins.  These kinds of prices and deals do pop-up as sellers get their hands on a crate-full. 
  
  
 I have to admit, I haven't rolled them in yet - I'm still getting to know the stock tubes... soooo I might well eat my words... but it's something to consider.   If somebody did a test of matched vs unmatched it'd be interesting.
  
  
  
 All the best, 
  
 Jeb.


----------



## abvolt

dl. said:


> Did they raise the price? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
> 
> I thought it was $75 before...
> 
> dL


 
  
 Wow your right they did rise there price. They are vintage tubes probably when stock is gone that's it, or just want more cash...


----------



## Hififox

Hi all,
  
 I got some problem with my wa7tp. I plugged in 2 nos Mullard CV4003 3 days before, the first time when I switched it on, my left tube got a spark. But I didn't turn it off and everything worked well. Today when I switched it on, the right tube got a spark. Everything is still good now, but I'm worrying that the sparks will destroy the circuits. I like to know that it's just the normal situation like the dust drop in the circuits or it's not a good situation will damage my wa7tp.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## abvolt

Some arcing in a vacuum tubes is fine most of the time, my mullard CV4003 did that for a few times and so did the stock woo tubes. It won't damage your amp, most of the time it's caused by a fractured filament or some  contamination in the tube. It should just go away mine did..


----------



## mikoss

Finally rolled in some NOS Mullard 12au7a's that I purchased from vacuumtubes.net, and I literally cannot believe how amazing guitar sounds. This takes the WA7 to a whole new level for me... guitar sounds so magically delicious. It just sounds so very detailed, with nice tonality, and amazingly "correct". I feel like I've never heard guitar sound so right until now. These are probably not even highly sought after Mullards either... They came as Amperex labelled 12AU7A ECC82 "Made in Gt. Britain" 73 51 Gf2 B3G2 
  
 I take it these are Blackburn tubes made in '73?


----------



## abvolt

I agree the mullards are amazing my favorites..


----------



## malla1ml

Same here as well.  I wanted to burn in the stock tubes so that I had a basis for comparison. Even before the Mullard CV4003's (from upscale audio & cryo treated) were finished being broken in, I could hear an immediate difference.  I'll have to roll in my Brimars, JANs and RCA clear tops to decide which is the best for me.  But the Mullards made a huge difference right off the bat.


----------



## mikroski

I'm very happy with GE.
  
 Sylvania is a big improvement from stock tube but GE is one step further
  
 Bass: Sylvania has a tight, punchy bass. GE has more good balance with mid, no feeling like listen to subwoofer as Sylvania
  
 Treble: Sylvania has crisp high but not have a good harmonic. GE's treble has softer sound but better extension in harmonic and better details. For piano, violin, percussion, etc. I can hear a lot airy, harmonics and vibe of treble.
  
 Mid: I love mid of GE! Repeat, I love mid of GE! I can hear more details, I can feel the passion of singer. It has euphemistic and sweet sound. Less forward than Sylvania
  
 Sound stage: GE's sound stage is better. Layer of each instrument is very goods. Very good for classical music, 
  
 According the suggestion from tubeworld, I will order Amperex Phillips. And see how it compare with GE


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> I'm very happy with GE.
> 
> Sylvania is a big improvement from stock tube but GE is one step further
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well you've managed to perk my interests in the GE's I'll be giving them a try..


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> Well you've managed to perk my interests in the GE's I'll be giving them a try..


 
  
 I'm very interesting in either Mullard or Amperex, but not now. I'm very happy with GE tonal balance, details and sweet warm


----------



## Dogmatrix

I am really enjoying the GE 6680 tubes , detail and tonal accuracy  is better than anything I have tried
 Only down side is they could be a little bright with some headphones


----------



## drgajet

Does Cryo make a difference?

Jim


----------



## abvolt

drgajet said:


> Does Cryo make a difference?
> 
> Jim


 
  
 I've read a lot on cryo treated tubes some people seem not to like it much, I was never willing to spend the extra 8-15 per tube to find out.
 Take a look at this thread --> http://www.head-fi.org/t/276581/cryo-treated-tubes


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> I've read a lot on cryo treated tubes some people seem not to like it much, I was never willing to spend the extra 8-15 per tube to find out.
> Take a look at this thread --> http://www.head-fi.org/t/276581/cryo-treated-tubes


 
 Good read, thanks. I think it depend on individual preference. I will not spend the extra too.


----------



## drgajet

Thanks for the info.

Jim


----------



## breezyjr

Just received my WA7d and Wa7tp yesterday...  was sooo excited as this is my first high end audio purchase....   
  
 Completely skipped the stock tubes on the tp, and went straight to the mullard Cyro'd CV4003 (I think that's the model #) Also purchased the upgraded tubes for the WA7d.. <grin>
  
 So far, I cannot really compare it to anything, but can say, with the Woo sold upgraded WA7d tubes, I absolutely love the sound so far...  And, I haven't even had a chance to listen to much high bitrate stuff, just a few 320kps songs I have in iTunes...  
  
 I do have one question, as this is my first "real" purchase, and first tube amp...  IS it safe to leave it powered on for an extended time??? I remember reading folks saying they let the tubes burn in for 24hours or so....  I wanted to know if it's safe to do so, just leave it on, or do I need to play something through the amp, not just leaving it "on"
  
 Thanks,
 Joe_Breezyjr
  
 PS.  now just need to pick up a pair of HD800s, at least something better than the AKG 712 pros...  Then, of course, my SECOND high end purchase....  hehe


----------



## groovyd

According to Woo's literature you should not run it for more then 8 hours at a time.  Not entirely sure the reasoning but whenever I notice I left mine on overnight by accident I always kick myself and wonder what great harm I just did.  I bought a ton of extra tubes because I know I am reckless.


----------



## malla1ml

I believe Mike @HiFiGuy528 stated before that vendors and others leave them on all night while at trade shows without any ill effects.  It's probably one of those things that you probably don't want to leave it on all the time, as it may reduce the tubes lifespan but it shouldn't affect it on the unit itself.  Hopefully Mike can chime in.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

@groovyd 
  
 It's OK to run a few hours beyond 8 hrs.  We noted that in the manual because we don't want people to leave the amp ON all day and night and unattended.  8-10 hours is not an issue.


----------



## groovyd

ok, I was actually going to get one of those timed outlets for it just to make sure it doesn't get left on overnight ever.  Is it ok to on/off via the outlet in this case?


----------



## breezyjr

Thanks for the quick responses....  
  
 I am soooooo excited...  Heck.. I should go listen to it now!  I have some free time....   I think I'll check out some HD tracks, from that site... and make myself all giddy like a school girl... LOL <grin> 
  
 Now... what. to. get. next.  Hmmm... WA6se? with the Oppo HA-1??   But, I'm getting ahead of myself... lol
  
 Thanks again for the quick replies....
  
 Joe_Breezyjr


----------



## HiFiGuy528

breezyjr said:


> Thanks for the quick responses....
> 
> I am soooooo excited...  Heck.. I should go listen to it now!  I have some free time....   I think I'll check out some HD tracks, from that site... and make myself all giddy like a school girl... LOL <grin>
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you have WA7tp (tube power supply), it's best to use the ON/OFF push button on the front and leave the main power switch in the ON position. 
  
 Quote:


breezyjr said:


> Thanks for the quick responses....
> 
> I am soooooo excited...  Heck.. I should go listen to it now!  I have some free time....   I think I'll check out some HD tracks, from that site... and make myself all giddy like a school girl... LOL <grin>
> 
> ...


 
  
 How about WA22 + WDS-1?


----------



## abvolt

breezyjr said:


> Just received my WA7d and Wa7tp yesterday...  was sooo excited as this is my first high end audio purchase....
> 
> Completely skipped the stock tubes on the tp, and went straight to the mullard Cyro'd CV4003 (I think that's the model #) Also purchased the upgraded tubes for the WA7d.. <grin>
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats & enjoy your new amp..


----------



## mikroski

I work at home, and listen to music while working. At night, when my wife watch tv, I still listen to music. So, I turn on WA7 from around 09.00 to 01.00 every day


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> I work at home, and listen to music while working. At night, when my wife watch tv, I still listen to music. So, I turn on WA7 from around 09.00 to 01.00 every day


 
  
 Same with me *mikroski* I listen on average 4-6 hours a day everyday..


----------



## breezyjr

hifiguy528 said:


> How about WA22 + WDS-1?


 
  
  
 Ahhh.. come on... you just made me drool on myself.....<grin>
  
 Nice combo!  I may just have to save up for it....  (unless of course you want to send them to me.....  "just because"  MOOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)
  
 Getting a little slap happy...
  
 Joe_Breezyjr


----------



## abvolt

Oh yeah that would be a nice pairing indeed, the WA22 will most definitely be my next upgrade..


----------



## dL.

breezyjr said:


> Thanks for the quick responses....
> 
> I am soooooo excited...  Heck.. I should go listen to it now!  I have some free time....   I think I'll check out some HD tracks, from that site... and make myself all giddy like a school girl... LOL
> 
> ...




Think the WA234 might be better for you 

dL


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> mikroski said:
> 
> 
> > I work at home, and listen to music while working. At night, when my wife watch tv, I still listen to music. So, I turn on WA7 from around 09.00 to 01.00 every day
> ...


 
 Actually, I leave it on 12-16 hours per day, almost one year now. Stay on my couch, doing all work from there and listen music at the same time. I know that it isn't good and shorten tube life, but don't want to on/off too often.


----------



## breezyjr

Quote: As stated by dL. 





> Think the WA234 might be better for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad you think I have that kind of money.... <grin>  Although....  Admittedly, I would love one...  wait, I mean two....
  
 Right now... for one, I'm enjoying the extra "oomph" I hear playing Battlefield 4....
  
 Joe_Breezyjr


----------



## abvolt

breezyjr said:


> I'm glad you think I have that kind of money.... <grin>  Although....  Admittedly, I would love one...  wait, I mean two....
> 
> Right now... for one, I'm enjoying the extra "oomph" I hear playing Battlefield 4....
> 
> Joe_Breezyjr


 
  
 I've never gamed with the WA7 I'll give it a try & see..


----------



## malla1ml

Gaming with the WA7 + WA7tp from the X7 is very enjoyable


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Movies are great too.


----------



## abvolt

Well you guys are right not only is my jazz but also gaming & movies are much better from my Woo, fun to know stuff for sure..


----------



## johnKenneth

mikroski said:


> I'm very happy with GE.
> 
> Sylvania is a big improvement from stock tube but GE is one step further
> 
> ...


 




 So have you tried any other tubes? 
  By the way what music tracks did you try with when evaluating?


----------



## abvolt

I just got a matched pair of vintage triple mica 5814A sylvania's. I've not yet tried them but will let you guys know what I think of them, also not too bad on the wallet 94 off fleabay. I've read good impressions on these tubes guess I'll find out this weekend.


----------



## breezyjr

Woot!  I get my HD-800 tomorrow.... Can't wait to hear what they sound like with this amp and gaming!  (and, of course music!)
  
  
 SO EXCITED!
  
  
 Ok... kind of a separate question...  Anyone using the Oppo HA-1 DAC With the WA7 as the amp?  I love the features on the Oppo, and really am thinking about getting one.....  Just wanted to know what any of you thought.... if you had the same combo...
  
 Sorry if this is in the wrong place... but, I seem to recall hearing someone here has the OPPO...  TO be clear.. I'm not interested in the amp section of the Oppo...  sure. I'll try it.. but I'm thinking Oppo DAC to the WA7 amp....  
  
  
 Thought... ideas.... flames???  hehe
  
 thanks
 Joe_Breezyjr


----------



## mikroski

johnkenneth said:


> mikroski said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very happy with GE.
> ...


 
 I compare GE and Sylvania by using follows albums
  
 Jazz: Sails by Chet Atkins, Winelight by Grover Washington Jr., Jazz at the Pawnshop 1, Live at Bluenote by The very tall band (Peterson)
  
 Vocal: All Angels by All Angels,Song from the Heart by Celtic Woman, Faryl by Faryl Smith, Surrender by Jane Monheit, L' AMour by Katherine Jenkins
  
 Classical/Soundtrack: Beethoven Symphony by LSO, Great Film Fantasies by CPO, Chopin Piano Concerto by Arthur Rubinstein
  
 I will buy either Miniwatt Holland or Mullard Long Plate this week


----------



## zackzack

Massive difference from the original power supply?


----------



## money4me247

breezyjr said:


> Just received my WA7d and Wa7tp yesterday...  was sooo excited as this is my first high end audio purchase....
> 
> Completely skipped the stock tubes on the tp, and went straight to the mullard Cyro'd CV4003 (I think that's the model #) Also purchased the upgraded tubes for the WA7d.. <grin>
> 
> ...


 
@breezyjr it is bc tubes have a limited life span. leaving your amplifier on, but not using it & not planning on using it soon is just wasting its life span. tubes will need to replaced much faster.


----------



## mikroski

zackzack said:


> Massive difference from the original power supply?


 

 I had asked the same question here last month. The answer from owner is; tp make an improvement in every area.
  
 I then asked my dealer, I got the same answer
  
 I know It is quite difficult to believe that changing power supply can make a big difference but yes, massive improve


----------



## abvolt

Well I've decided to do my first impressions of the vintage 5814A Sylvania's. And I think it's a very good sounding tube, great clarity with good balance, very nice mids & the bass extension is to my liking real good, plus nice & punchy but not as good as the wonderful sounding mullards.
  
 I also noticed that they needed a little more volume then other tubes, and sound a little rolled off the top. Most of the time I give my amp a sufficient warm up time maybe 45 mins. or so I know that's not necessary but to my ears the amp sounds better the warmer it gets.
  
 The reason I mention this is because these tubes didn't sound there best until about 2 hours of use, unlike all other tubes I own that seem to require less warm up time to reach their best, maybe it's just the pair I got or the fact that I've only spent a few hours with them.
  
 So given the fact that these are half the cost of my favorites the mullards CV4003's they are a very good sounding tube, All in All they are worth a try i'm very pleased so far, I listen to mostly jazz, rock, and classical not sure that matters but some may wonder. I do like to give my new tubes about two weeks of use before I can really tell so I will add more later..


----------



## rage3324

Do you see a bigger sound signature different rolling the PSU tubes or the amp tubes? Any suggestions for a good tube pairing for the PS1K?


----------



## groovyd

i saw no sound signature difference rolling the amp tubes.  also got directly in touch with the maker of the tubes in russia who told me the gold pin vs non gold pin versions were identical tubes off the same line and within the same tolerances other then plating the pins. changing tubes on the psu had a significant impact. the mullards were the best for me but the jans are great for bass and the cleartops for highs.


----------



## mikoss

groovyd said:


> i saw no sound signature difference rolling the amp tubes.  also got directly in touch with the maker of the tubes in russia who told me the gold pin vs non gold pin versions were identical tubes off the same line and within the same tolerances other then plating the pins. changing tubes on the psu had a significant impact. the mullards were the best for me but the jans are great for bass and the cleartops for highs.



+1
Agree completely.


----------



## desertblues

groovyd said:


> i saw no sound signature difference rolling the amp tubes.  also got directly in touch with the maker of the tubes in russia who told me the gold pin vs non gold pin versions were identical tubes off the same line and within the same tolerances other then plating the pins. changing tubes on the psu had a significant impact. the mullards were the best for me but the jans are great for bass and the cleartops for highs.
> [/quote
> 
> Totally agree with you as to the Mullards and cleartops. As for the amp tubes, I do get a slightly smoother sound with nos Reflektor tubes (not Sovtek). The ones I use are cryo-treated. To my ears the EH gold pins are a bit more detailed and the Reflektors more "tubey". The sound difference with these is not as big a deal as the 12au7's in the psu by any means!


----------



## rage3324

Incredible. So much hype about rolling the amp tubes when the real difference maker is rolling the psu tubes. Very cool and I am glad I asked this question


----------



## Jeffersonian

Quick question, I just got my WA7tp.  Is the power button supposed to spin like a knob for no apparent reason?  The power button also seems a bit wobblier than I expected, unless you push right in the center.  Like it has a bit of give to it from side to side.  Is this normal?


----------



## dL.

jeffersonian said:


> Quick question, I just got my WA7tp.  Is the power button supposed to spin like a knob for no apparent reason?  The power button also seems a bit wobblier than I expected, unless you push right in the center.  Like it has a bit of give to it from side to side.  Is this normal?


 
  
 Congrats on your new purchase! Yes it's normal to spin like a knob and it's also normal that it is a bit wobbly. This has been the only disappointing part about the WA7 & WA7TP, but I guess they cut a few corners so they can avoid building more custom parts just for the power button, or else they might charge us even more.
  
 dL


----------



## Jeffersonian

Thanks for the quick reply!  Good to know that's normal at least.  Super happy with it so far.


----------



## dL.

jeffersonian said:


> Thanks for the quick reply!  Good to know that's normal at least.  Super happy with it so far.


 
  
 Awesome to hear. We look forward to hearing your listening impression after burning in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 dL


----------



## abvolt

groovyd said:


> i saw no sound signature difference rolling the amp tubes.  also got directly in touch with the maker of the tubes in russia who told me the gold pin vs non gold pin versions were identical tubes off the same line and within the same tolerances other then plating the pins. changing tubes on the psu had a significant impact. the mullards were the best for me but the jans are great for bass and the cleartops for highs.


 
  
 Glad you mentioned this *groovyd*  I suspected as much that really sucks for those of us who spent lots more money on the gold plated 6C45 from Woo. It also explains why I was never able to find these tubes anywhere else but from Woo Audio.


----------



## Dogmatrix

abvolt said:


> Glad you mentioned this *groovyd*  I suspected as much that really sucks for those of us who spent lots more money on the gold plated 6C45 from Woo. It also explains why I was never able to find these tubes anywhere else but from Woo Audio.


 

 At least your pins wont corrode


----------



## abvolt

dogmatrix said:


> At least your pins wont corrode


 
  
 Lol  true we do get that nice feature for only 45. extra dollars..


----------



## Jeffersonian

groovyd said:


> i saw no sound signature difference rolling the amp tubes.  also got directly in touch with the maker of the tubes in russia who told me the gold pin vs non gold pin versions were identical tubes off the same line and within the same tolerances other then plating the pins. changing tubes on the psu had a significant impact. the mullards were the best for me but the jans are great for bass and the cleartops for highs.


 

 Are you talking about there being a non-gold version of the "Electro Harmonix 6C45 Gold Plated Pins matched pair" and it seems to be the same as the gold-pin version?  If so, where can you buy them?
  
 I take it they are still an upgrade from the "Sovtek 6C45 matched pair" tubes?
  
 Apologies if I'm confused


----------



## abvolt

You can buy them off the Woo Audio site for 55. matched pair and yes that's what *groovyd *was talking about..


----------



## Jeffersonian

abvolt said:


> You can buy them off the Woo Audio site for 55. matched pair and yes that's what *groovyd *was talking about..


 

 Wait, just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, the stock tubes that came with it (Sovtek 6C45, which you can buy another pair of for $55) are the exact same as the "Electro Harmonix 6C45 Gold Plated Pins" that are $100 (besides the pins being gold plated)?  So all the posts saying that they're a huge upgrade are full of it?


----------



## abvolt

I can only say that to my ears the gold harmonix sounded better, others say it made no difference to there ears. It has been many months since I've heard the stock tubes from my WA7d. But I'm going to give my stock tubes a listen and find out all over again.  My gut feeling is *groovyd* is right about the tubes & my ears are wrong..


----------



## drgajet

So, are the gold pins with a white arc or black pins with a blue arc?


----------



## groovyd

They are identical to the stock tubes, only re-branded and gold plated.  Same production line, same specs, same tolerances, same output.


----------



## Jeffersonian

That's really ****ty if that's true.  That makes me doubt all the audiophile claims.
  
 If no one from Woo audio responds to your claim, you pretty much know it's true then.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Hi Jeffersonian, 

I have the EH Gold Pins but haven't rolled them in yet. As far as I'm aware, neither Woo nor anyone else claimed that the essential construction of these tubes vs the Sovtek 6C45 were any different. The theory as stated earlier on the thread was that the gold pins could provide better/cleaner (or at least *different*) contact with the tube sockets resulting in an improvement in sound quality.


Whether you believe in all this kind of thing and wish to give it a go will probably come down to a matter of personal preference. The subject of gold vs standard pins has been long debated in the tube world, with many believing it is audiophile nonsense, while there is also a fair weight of anecdotal evidence suggesting lots of people hear a difference. 

Given the glowing reviews, I felt it was worth a go so I got a pair to try later on. I thought it was a good idea to get a good handle on the sound of the Sovteks so I would have the best chance of detecting a difference with the EHs. 

Regards

Jeb.


----------



## money4me247

jeffersonian said:


> That's really ****ty if that's true.  That makes me doubt all the audiophile claims.
> 
> If no one from Woo audio responds to your claim, you pretty much know it's true then.


 
 lol. most audiophile claims are indeed silly.
  
 a lot of things that people here believe in are simply caused by placebo effect. do a blind test and the differences vanish.
  
 if your new here, just be a bit skeptical of all claims & test it yourself. remember that spending more money does not guarantee you better sound.


----------



## mikroski

I think EH Gold Pins has a little bit cleaner and stock tube sound a little bit warmer, just a little. I *personally* don't think EH tube worth for investment. Doesn't like purchase WA7tp, that make a huge different.


----------



## Dogmatrix

Rolled in some new tubes last night
 "Ten " brand 12au7 made by Kobe Kogyo Japan May 1967
 Super detail and clarity with very balanced frequency kind of a high end solid state sound , only one session but very promising
 Big contrast from the high res bass of the 6680
 My M8136/Cv4003 Mullards arrived from the UK too so I have a bit of a waiting list


----------



## abvolt

Sounds fun I've never tried the kobe kogyo brand tubes did you get them for langrex tubes in the uk..


----------



## Dogmatrix

abvolt said:


> Sounds fun I've never tried the kobe kogyo brand tubes did you get them for langrex tubes in the uk..


 

 I find hunting down and researching the origins of the tubes almost as much fun as listening to the transformations they bring to the Wa7
 This pair came from a contact I have in Russia , for some reason much of the old tube stock in Japan was shipped off to Russia when the wall came down . Consequently the best place to find rare Japanese tubes is Russia . Ten tubes are renowned for very high quality and long life .
 After another session with them I would say they are more like what I would expect of a German made tube , more balanced and detailed than anything I have tried so far .


----------



## malla1ml

dogmatrix said:


> I find hunting down and researching the origins of the tubes almost as much fun as listening to the transformations they bring to the Wa7
> This pair came from a contact I have in Russia , for some reason much of the old tube stock in Japan was shipped off to Russia when the wall came down . Consequently the best place to find rare Japanese tubes is Russia . Ten tubes are renowned for very high quality and long life .
> After another session with them I would say they are more like what I would expect of a German made tube , more balanced and detailed than anything I have tried so far .


 
  
 Do you have any recommendations for more unique / rare tubes to try out?


----------



## abvolt

dogmatrix said:


> I find hunting down and researching the origins of the tubes almost as much fun as listening to the transformations they bring to the Wa7
> This pair came from a contact I have in Russia , for some reason much of the old tube stock in Japan was shipped off to Russia when the wall came down . Consequently the best place to find rare Japanese tubes is Russia . Ten tubes are renowned for very high quality and long life .
> After another session with them I would say they are more like what I would expect of a German made tube , more balanced and detailed than anything I have tried so far .


 
  
 I agree with you searching for the right tube and understanding some of the history behind that tube is half the fun the other half listening to the differences one finds. I appreciate your impressions..


----------



## Dogmatrix

Currently two tubes on my hunt list are 1950's RCA 5814a and CBS Hytron 12au7 . I never really know about the really rare ones until they pop up . It is a matter of scanning auction sights and keeping contacts open looking for unusual things .


----------



## malla1ml

Thanks.  New to this whole tube thing but after just a little digging around, I've found that it's a hobby all of it's own.  I went from having no tubes to 8 sets in a little over 2 months. Have you or anyone else for that matter, tried the Western Electric 417A's in the WA7?


----------



## Dogmatrix

malla1ml said:


> Thanks.  New to this whole tube thing but after just a little digging around, I've found that it's a hobby all of it's own.  I went from having no tubes to 8 sets in a little over 2 months. Have you or anyone else for that matter, tried the Western Electric 417A's in the WA7?


 
 Never used the WE417a not certain it is a direct drop in sub as far as I know we are stuck with the 6C45 in the WA7

 From diy-audio-guide.com
  
*417A or 5842* – wideband applications and especially for grounded-grid operation, 4.5W maximum plate dissipation, 200Vdc maximum plate voltage, u of 43.* It is like half of 6C45 *but is still nice, and many brands available, namely the Western Electric, Amperex, Raytheon, RCA and etc. It is still commonly available but quantity are depleting fast.


----------



## abvolt

dogmatrix said:


> Currently two tubes on my hunt list are 1950's RCA 5814a and CBS Hytron 12au7 . I never really know about the really rare ones until they pop up . It is a matter of scanning auction sights and keeping contacts open looking for unusual things .


 
  
 I bet that'll be fun to hear,  if you would to give us your impressions and maybe even a link or two "hint hint"..


----------



## abvolt

malla1ml said:


> Thanks.  New to this whole tube thing but after just a little digging around, I've found that it's a hobby all of it's own.  I went from having no tubes to 8 sets in a little over 2 months. Have you or anyone else for that matter, tried the Western Electric 417A's in the WA7?


 
  
 Hello malla1ml in all my searching for tubes I've never come across the 417A as a tube that would even work in the WA7/tp I would do your homework before using any tube in your amp. It might  damage the amp I don't know for sure someone with more experience could give us an answer..


----------



## malla1ml

I haven't purchased any but one late night of research (mind you late night) I thought I read it was an option although costly.  I'll for sure be doing my research before dropping anything into my beloved WA7.  But I do love that people keep trying different tubes and posting them here.  At the very least, I enjoy the hunt and trying something new, better yet if it's uncommon.


----------



## abvolt

I just noticed on ebay a WE417 tube converter adapter for the 6C45 tubes looks like you can use that tube.


----------



## malla1ml

Ok, so I went back and tried to retrace my steps in regards to the WE417A, it was infact an error on my part due to the late night.  It is instead the WE437 but it's supposedly rare.


----------



## abvolt

I'm stoked I've never won a bid on ebay until tonight I got a matched pair of vintage  RCA 5814A black plates for 16. great deal. I'll be sure to post my thoughts when I receive them..


----------



## abvolt

Just received my vintage RCA 5814A tubes they sound really good not as good as my mullards but close and very much worth there price of 16.00 a pair, I think there a lot better then the stock woo tubes. I've also ordered some NOS 12AU7 Sylvania's should be fun..


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> Just received my vintage RCA 5814A tubes they sound really good not as good as my mullards but close and very much worth there price of 16.00 a pair, I think there a lot better then the stock woo tubes. I've also ordered some NOS 12AU7 Sylvania's should be fun..


 

 I think that NOS 12AU7 Sylvania is a little bit too bright for my W5000. But you have LCD-2, I think it will be interesting to know how it sound with Sylvania. Please give any comment when you get it
  
 my EL-8 will come this month. I will try EL-8 with Sylvania and GE first, then will look for some more tube may be either RCA Clear top or Mullard.


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> I think that NOS 12AU7 Sylvania is a little bit too bright for my W5000. But you have LCD-2, I think it will be interesting to know how it sound with Sylvania. Please give any comment when you get it
> 
> my EL-8 will come this month. I will try EL-8 with Sylvania and GE first, then will look for some more tube may be either RCA Clear top or Mullard.


 
  
 I'd also like to know your thoughts on the EL-8's sounds like a great pairing with the WA7, There's a guy on ebay that sells the mullards for 100. a matched pair if you don't find it let me know I have the link..


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> mikroski said:
> 
> 
> > I think that NOS 12AU7 Sylvania is a little bit too bright for my W5000. But you have LCD-2, I think it will be interesting to know how it sound with Sylvania. Please give any comment when you get it
> ...


 

 Dear @abvolt
 Please give me link on ebay. I want to buy some tube from upscaleaudio, but shipping cost is $50. That's too much.
 Thank you


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> Dear @abvolt
> Please give me link on ebay. I want to buy some tube from upscaleaudio, but shipping cost is $50. That's too much.
> Thank you


 
  
 Yeah upscaleaudio is very high priced as you know there vintage mullards are like 95.00 each and this guys are the same tubes for way less --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 These are the same tubes for 100. a pair take a look enjoy..


----------



## mikoss

abvolt said:


> Yeah upscaleaudio is very high priced as you know there vintage mullards are like 95.00 each and this guys are the same tubes for way less --> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> These are the same tubes for 100. a pair take a look enjoy..


 
 Thanks for the link. Have you had a chance to compare the long plates to the shorts? Just wondering... I have only heard short plates and the mids sounded very, very liquid and satisfying. Guitar was exceptional... I can only imagine how it might sound on the longs.


----------



## abvolt

Thanks for asking I have not yet but I will say I'm very surprised just how well these RCA 5814A's sound they are really close to the mullards at a fraction of the cost, wow I see now why some guys say one does not need to spend lots of money on tubes to get great sound..


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> Thanks for asking I have not yet but I will say I'm very surprised just how well these RCA 5814A's sound they are really close to the mullards at a fraction of the cost, wow I see now why some guys say one does not need to spend lots of money on tubes to get great sound..


 

 Thanks for link!!
  
 Please give me some idea between RCA 5814A and Mullard in term of details and upper high. Does RCA 5814A is as bright as Sylvania?


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> Thanks for link!!
> 
> Please give me some idea between RCA 5814A and Mullard in term of details and upper high. Does RCA 5814A is as bright as Sylvania?


 
  
 I will take a closer listen between the RCA's & the Sylvania's tomorrow and be happy to let you know what I think of the two. As far as the mullards go they are my favorites a wonderful full bodied & rich sounding tube with really great low end, But I could also live very comfortably with these new RCA's I've got, no harshness at all unlike the stock woo tubes
  
 Remember that the woo tubes are 55. + 10.  at the door the RCA's were 16. at the door and way better sounding. The Sylvania's were 5.95 + 3. at my door I won't buy any more woo tubes that's for sure..


----------



## vasunshine

abvolt said:


> I will take a closer listen between the RCA's & the Sylvania's tomorrow and be happy to let you know what I think of the two. As far as the mullards go they are my favorites a wonderful full bodied & rich sounding tube with really great low end, But I could also live very comfortably with these new RCA's I've got, no harshness at all unlike the stock woo tubes
> 
> Remember that the woo tubes are 55. + 10.  at the door the RCA's were 16. at the door and way better sounding. The Sylvania's were 5.95 + 3. at my door I won't buy any more woo tubes that's for sure..




Would you mind sharing the links you used to purchase the RCA and Sylvania tubes? Thanks!


----------



## mikroski

abvolt said:


> I will take a closer listen between the RCA's & the Sylvania's tomorrow and be happy to let you know what I think of the two. As far as the mullards go they are my favorites a wonderful full bodied & rich sounding tube with really great low end, But I could also live very comfortably with these new RCA's I've got, no harshness at all unlike the stock woo tubes
> 
> Remember that the woo tubes are 55. + 10.  at the door the RCA's were 16. at the door and way better sounding. The Sylvania's were 5.95 + 3. at my door I won't buy any more woo tubes that's for sure..


 
 When I look at your link for Mullard. I think ..., ok, I have GE which is the same sound signature as Mullard. I have Sylvania. Why not try Amperex Buungle Boy. So, I ordered for one pair of Amperex. Hope to get it by end of March


----------



## abvolt

vasunshine said:


> Would you mind sharing the links you used to purchase the RCA and Sylvania tubes? Thanks!


 
 I don't have any links those tubes that I mentioned are bids that I won off ebay, most of the time they don't come that cheap. But you can always find tubes that are better then woo stock for much less money..
  
  


mikroski said:


> When I look at your link for Mullard. I think ..., ok, I have GE which is the same sound signature as Mullard. I have Sylvania. Why not try Amperex Buungle Boy. So, I ordered for one pair of Amperex. Hope to get it by end of March


 
  
 Sounds great I've been looking for some bugle boy's let us know how they are..


----------



## malla1ml

I was able to pickup my Sylvania and RCA's off eBay. What I like to do is set a saved search and I'll check once a day to see if anything comes up.


----------



## abvolt

Cool that's a good idea I've missed deals by not paying attention..


----------



## malla1ml

Yeah, setting saved searches is a great way to snap those great buy it now deals that'll pop up.


----------



## vasunshine

malla1ml said:


> I was able to pickup my Sylvania and RCA's off eBay. What I like to do is set a saved search and I'll check once a day to see if anything comes up.


 
  
 Do you mind telling us what key word you use for the saved searches? Thanks! Want to chase some stealth deal too


----------



## mikroski

I have one stupid question. What is save search?


----------



## malla1ml

Nothing fancy. I do this with all of my hobbies, if it's something I don't need right away, I'll set a saved search for whatever I'm looking for.  If a good deal comes around, I'll jump on it.  While not related to this in particular, I do love using CamelCamelCamel as a price comparison for Amazon.  Download the extension for whatever browser you enjoy using, lookup the item on Amazon and see where the prices have done overtime. It also allows you to set a price alert, so you can be notified when it reaches it.


----------



## malla1ml

A saved search on eBay allows you to get notifications when new items meet the criteria.
  
 From eBay:
  
*To follow a search:*

  From the top of any page, enter the item you're looking for in the search box, and then click *Search*.


  On the search results page, click *Follow this search* at the top of your results page. You may be asked to sign in.


  Select the checkbox if you want to receive email notifications when new items match your search.


----------



## abvolt

malla1ml said:


> A saved search on eBay allows you to get notifications when new items meet the criteria.
> 
> From eBay:
> 
> ...


 
 +1
 I'll be doing this really good idea thanks..


----------



## money4me247

if u want the el8 on sale u can get it from headphone.com (headroom)... they have a 10% off if u sign up for their newletter or smtg like that.


----------



## happypill

So I went ahead and bought a matched pair of Mullard CV4003's from the eBay listing posted a page or two back...
  
*WOW. *
  
 This has to be the most significant tube upgrade I've ever made; Very rangy and smooth, with a nice punchy bottom and lower mids..
  
 Thank you very much @abvolt for the recommendation!


----------



## frankrondaniel

happypill said:


> So I went ahead and bought a matched pair of Mullard CV4003's from the eBay listing posted a page or two back...
> 
> *WOW. *
> 
> ...


 
  
 They're definitely my favorite as well.  Glad that you're enjoying them!


----------



## abvolt

cool glad to hear you like, there my favorites also..


----------



## mikroski

It seem that I should buy Mullard from @abvolt's link.
  
 I want to get my EL-8 first before buy the fourth pair of tube. But also want to try it now. Too bad that my EL-8 is likely to be shipped to Asia in next month. wait and wait


----------



## abvolt

mikroski said:


> It seem that I should buy Mullard from @abvolt's link.
> 
> I want to get my EL-8 first before buy the fourth pair of tube. But also want to try it now. Too bad that my EL-8 is likely to be shipped to Asia in next month. wait and wait


 
  
 I agree on putting off buying more tubes for now only because I'm interested in your thoughts on the EL-8's, they should be really fun cans..


----------



## Shini44

i like the EH tubes more on my WA7, so if i want more Dynamic with the Treble and Bass then which Tube for the WA7tp should i go for? 

 and thanks for the info ^^


----------



## Dogmatrix

shini44 said:


> i like the EH tubes more on my WA7, so if i want more Dynamic with the Treble and Bass then which Tube for the WA7tp should i go for?
> 
> and thanks for the info ^^


 

 I think the Mullard CV4003 / M8136  "box plate" tube would fit the bill
 I have rolled more than half a dozen varieties over the last few months and while some give better performance in particular points of the spectrum the Mullard is king


----------



## abvolt

dogmatrix said:


> I think the Mullard CV4003 / M8136  "box plate" tube would fit the bill
> I have rolled more than half a dozen varieties over the last few months and while some give better performance in particular points of the spectrum the Mullard is king


 
  
 +1
 Agree the CV4003 is my favorite also but the cost on the mullards are getting way too high, other variants like the RCA 5814A black plates are awesome sounding, I don't really like the clear tops much.


----------



## Dogmatrix

abvolt said:


> +1
> Agree the CV4003 is my favorite also but the cost on the mullards are getting way too high, other variants like the RCA 5814A black plates are awesome sounding, I don't really like the clear tops much.


 

 I would personally recommend new owners start with a small selection of tubes perhaps those talked about here or maybe just buy something at random and see how it goes
 Experience is important particularly if the owner is looking to tune the sound in a specific direction
 Cheap tubes that turn out to sound the way you like always give the greatest satisfaction
 In my own experience I really like the bass delivery of the 6680 but the detail with the Ten 12au7 is also excellent
 Enter the Mullard the bass is not as good as the 6680 and the detail not a match for the Ten but across the spectrum the Mullard is superior more of a complete package
 Value is hard to quantify the 6680 cost $5 each and the Ten $20 each and many great tubes including the RCA 5814 can be found for under $20
 However I think for those not really interested in tube rolling who just want the WA7 at its best the Mullard is close to "end game" and worth the price
 Now we just need someone to try some Telefunken ECC802S , hang on to your wallet


----------



## abvolt

dogmatrix said:


> I would personally recommend new owners start with a small selection of tubes perhaps those talked about here or maybe just buy something at random and see how it goes
> Experience is important particularly if the owner is looking to tune the sound in a specific direction
> Cheap tubes that turn out to sound the way you like always give the greatest satisfaction
> In my own experience I really like the bass delivery of the 6680 but the detail with the Ten 12au7 is also excellent
> ...


 
  
 I agree, well said *Dogmatrix *lower cost tubes often do produce great sound also, and it's sure fun finding out which ones works best..


----------



## abvolt

Thinking of trying a matched pair of JJ Tesla 12AU7/ECC82's tubes off ebay anyone try them, really good price..


----------



## fudgebucket27

Getting bored with my Slyvania JANS. Suggestions?


----------



## Dogmatrix

fudgebucket27 said:


> Getting bored with my Slyvania JANS. Suggestions?


 

 If cash is no problem go for Mullard CV4003/M8136 box plate or best budget tube I have found 6680 preferably GE Mobile Radio


----------



## abvolt

I agree the mullards are worth a try if you haven't already.  Also I really like the RCA 12AU7 black plates. I've found the mullards on ebay for about half the cost others sell them for, just a thought for you..


----------



## fudgebucket27

Dang they have quite the price don't they!


----------



## Jeb Listens

fudgebucket27 said:


> Dang they have quite the price don't they!


 
  


dogmatrix said:


> I would personally recommend new owners start with a small selection of tubes perhaps those talked about here or maybe just buy something at random and see how it goes
> Experience is important particularly if the owner is looking to tune the sound in a specific direction
> Cheap tubes that turn out to sound the way you like always give the greatest satisfaction


 
  
  
 Fudgebucket, I think you have received some great advice here from the seasoned Wa7 tube-rollers.   I would like to re-emphasise what Dogmatrix has rightly said about how important it is to think about what direction you would like to take the sound as well as what will offer the best synergy with your headphones and your DAC.
  
 I'm still working on quite a long WA7 Dac shoot-out comparison as well as a  tube-rolling comparison for the WA7tp.  How well a tube performs is so dependent on your own tastes as well as the sound signature of the rest of your equipment.  
  
 I'm clearly in the minority here and It's early days but so far the Mullard CV4003s would definitely not be at the top of the list for my ears.  At the $40 each I paid for mine via Ebay I think they are are a good proposition but then again only IF the sound signature is to your tastes.  Via other online retailers they are going for near $100 dollars each and at that price I'm not onboard the Mullard-train yet.   I need to do further listening and comparisons. 
  
  
 Anyone else not quite digging the CV4003s? 
  
  
 All the best,
  
 Jeb  
  
 EDIT:  the mullards are growing on me.  They needed a bit of time.  Looks like I might be on that mullard-train after all.


----------



## abvolt

I will agree that most if not all NOS & vintage tubes are high priced and there getting higher every week that I look it seems. My suggestion for *Fudgebucket* would be just to keep an eye on ebay for a good deal they do come along. I will also say most of the RCA tubes I own sound really good, for example I was lucky enough to get a pair of RCA black plates for a 6.00 per tube + 3.00 ship doesn't happen that often but you'll find them, good luck on your search..


----------



## mikroski

one month from payment, and my miniwatt still in US, impressive!!


----------



## Shini44

mikroski said:


> one month from payment, and my miniwatt still in US, impressive!!


 
 thats why i pay extra more for fedex and get my item in 3 days exactly, i did the same to ship the Ragnarok internationally.


----------



## Jeb Listens

abvolt said:


> I will agree that most if not all NOS & vintage tubes are high priced and there getting higher every week that I look it seems. My suggestion for *Fudgebucket* would be just to keep an eye on ebay for a good deal they do come along. I will also say most of the RCA tubes I own sound really good, for example I was lucky enough to get a pair of RCA black plates for a 6.00 per tube + 3.00 ship doesn't happen that often but you'll find them, good luck on your search..


 

 I agree - you don't have to spend a lot to make some pretty big gains.  Even the Jan 5814a are a huge leap over the stock 12AU7s.  
  
 After spending a lot of time with the Mullards, they grew and grew on me.   I just posted quite a long review and re-evaluation of the WA7 DAC in which I compared it to 3 other DACS. There's also a tube-guide for the WA7tp.  Loads of pics of the WA7 and tubes.  You can read it here
  
 In the end, I think if you are going to use the WA7 with its onboard DAC, the Mullards do an absolutely supreme job of tweaking the amp's sound to help balance the DAC's own signature.  If you have another DAC you like with a different kind of sound, then the Mullards are still a great choice but there could be other, more exciting tubes to try, which might not be the excellent all-rounder that the Mullards are, but may do other things even better - and be cheaper for that matter.  
  
 Damn expensive hobby.


----------



## abvolt

Really well done on your review, I agree a better dac makes big difference I've been using my nuforce dac 80 and my puredac with the wa7/tp it's almost like night & day in SQ over the woo dac in the wa7..


----------



## Jeb Listens

Thanks abvolt - really appreciate that. 
  
 Congrats -those are two very well regarded DACs you have - I haven't had the pleasure of hearing either of them, unfortunately.   PureDac is on my shortlist though.   As you say, the WA7 can definitely benefit from something of this quality - and it speaks to the high level that the WA7 amp sits at.
  
 Relatively speaking, the on-board WA7 DAC is really no slouch, though.  It has a small issue with some thinness in the sound that unfortunately t ends up detracting from all the other things that it does really really well.  Once you roll in the JANs or the Mullards, that adds a solidity to the amp's sound  that helps smooth over the grain imparted by the DAC.  This can allow the listenter to appreciate all of the WA7 DAC's good qualities: which for me would be its dynamics, agility and overall musicality.  In my experiments The WA7 DAC was equally as far ahead of the Schiit Modi as  the Rega DAC was, in turn, ahead of the WA7 DAC.   The WA7 DAC even did a good job through the Asgard II, which was a nice surprise. 
  
  For size of gains  I would do it in this order:
  
 1. replace stock 12AU7s in the power supply - $30 JANs or $100 CV4003 (both offer _big _improvement)
 2. Dac Upgrade - anywhere from $500+ (_big improvement)_
 3. Electro Harmonix Gold Pin tubes $100 (_small improvement)_
  
 Of course, many people will want to do all three, but if I was pushed for money and space then I would be more than happy with just no.1 or no.1+3.  If you do 1 + 2, then doing no.3 would be even less critical and would be the final 5-10% to the top.
  
 If you do all three, then that's at least $700.  Does it sound $700 better? For me, yes. 40-50% improvement if I had to quantify, and the stock units are already superb! So it's a great journey to take at whatever pace your budget allows.  
  
 The EH tubes were quite an interesting journey for me:  when I compared them right at the beginning I struggled to hear a difference.  However, after spending a good few days with them, when I rolled the Sovteks back in, I wanted the EH's back immediately - I had taken for granted everything that the EH Golds were contributing, even if the improvements were relatively small in comparison to the 12AU7 rolls.  Subsequent comparisons convinced me I wouldn't want to give them up.  I know many people don't hear a difference, though.  We're all different and maybe I'm deluded.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jeb listens said:


> I agree - you don't have to spend a lot to make some pretty big gains.  Even the Jan 5814a are a huge leap over the stock 12AU7s.
> 
> After spending a lot of time with the Mullards, they grew and grew on me.   I just posted quite a long review and re-evaluation of the WA7 DAC in which I compared it to 3 other DACS. There's also a tube-guide for the WA7tp.  Loads of pics of the WA7 and tubes.  You can read it here
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the excellent review.  You addressed the concerns about the internal DAC by others effectively and without bias.  You ROCK man!


----------



## mikroski

shini44 said:


> mikroski said:
> 
> 
> > one month from payment, and my miniwatt still in US, impressive!!
> ...


 
 There is tracking information, but seem that there is some thing went wrong and my tube be sent to Jamaica instead of Thailand.
  
 I will cancel order if seller won't contact me within next week. I do want to hear how miniwatt sound with W5000. I will find another seller on ebay (with tracking number of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## money4me247

Jeb Listens thank you for your above post. rly appreciate the recommendations with a honest appraisal of the relativr contribution of each upgraded. i wld b limited on funds as well when pursuing upgrades so that info is greatly appreciated!


----------



## groovyd

I have the Mullards both as purchased off ebay for a decent price and from upscale which were ridiculously expensive and i can say the two tubes are completely different.  They even actually look quite different and upon power-up the ebay Mullards flash while the upscale don't.  The upscale sound way better.  I guess all I am saying is be careful in comparing apples to oranges even if both seem to be apples.  I do not believe them to be the same tubes at all, most likely manufactured even in different factories using different specs at different times.  The upscale are the ones you want if you want the best sound IMHO.


----------



## mikroski

groovyd said:


> I have the Mullards both as purchased off ebay for a decent price and from upscale which were ridiculously expensive and i can say the two tubes are completely different.  They even actually look quite different and upon power-up the ebay Mullards flash while the upscale don't.  The upscale sound way better.  I guess all I am saying is be careful in comparing apples to oranges even if both seem to be apples.  I do not believe them to be the same tubes at all, most likely manufactured even in different factories using different specs at different times.  The upscale are the ones you want if you want the best sound IMHO.


 

 Hi,
  
 Which Mullard you purchase from ebay, CV4003 or ECC82?


----------



## Jeb Listens

groovyd said:


> I have the Mullards both as purchased off ebay for a decent price and from upscale which were ridiculously expensive and i can say the two tubes are completely different.  They even actually look quite different and upon power-up the ebay Mullards flash while the upscale don't.  The upscale sound way better.  I guess all I am saying is be careful in comparing apples to oranges even if both seem to be apples.  I do not believe them to be the same tubes at all, most likely manufactured even in different factories using different specs at different times.  The upscale are the ones you want if you want the best sound IMHO.


 

 Interesting stuff groovy - would you be able to post a pic or describe the visual diffs so I can compare with my Ebay tubes.   
  
 Since the CV4003s  Mullard were manufactured right from the early 60s through to the 70s, possibly later so its very likely there is some variation depending on the age of the tube and as you say the place of manufacture.   Since you have one that sounds noticeably different, and if they look very different its also possible you ended up with a tube manufactured by Brimar instead or worse a replica - but if it was from a reputable seller that's not so likely.  Obviously there's always the chance of getting duds too!  
  
 Yes, Ebay is more of a lottery.  Upscale does guarantee great quality and more rigorous testing,  I agree - I got my Ciftes from there.  Just as another option - If you are UK based (or even not, depending on shipping) Langrex is a good place too, totally reputable -  CV4003 are £35 each ($50).
  
 By the way - you may already know this but the flashing at startup is a hallmark of Mullard tubes and indeed many tubes from Europe - I actually began to question the authenticity of mine because they _didn't _flash!  Obviously there's a difference between the heater flash at startup and proper arcing, which I haven't experienced and is probably very bad! 
  
 Since the NOS are getting more expensive I was really hoping the PSVANEs would be good... and they were, in their way... but in truth they didn't come even close to the Mullards, at least not for my tastes.
  
 Thanks for the info!
  
 Jeb.


----------



## Shini44

groovyd said:


> I have the Mullards both as purchased off ebay for a decent price and from upscale which were ridiculously expensive and i can say the two tubes are completely different.  They even actually look quite different and upon power-up the ebay Mullards flash while the upscale don't.  The upscale sound way better.  I guess all I am saying is be careful in comparing apples to oranges even if both seem to be apples.  I do not believe them to be the same tubes at all, most likely manufactured even in different factories using different specs at different times.  The upscale are the ones you want if you want the best sound IMHO.


 
 quite sad to hear that , since i did buy the Ebay one yesterday, but still happy because i know this, and i will buy the CV4003 from upscale once i can, 

 also should i check the box of (Cryogenically Treated) or?


----------



## money4me247

shini44 said:


> quite sad to hear that , since i did buy the Ebay one yesterday, but still happy because i know this, and i will buy the CV4003 from upscale once i can,
> 
> 
> also should i check the box of (Cryogenically Treated) or?




cryogenically treated sounds like a fancy way of saying..... dipped in ice.

lol, well i personally wld be very wary. ymmmv


----------



## Dogmatrix

On Mullard
 There are three versions of genuine Mullard which can be labeled CV4003
 Type one , the most highly regarded amongst audiophiles is the K61 or long plate from the 50's this has long ladder or ribbed plates similar to a Sylvania or other common tube
 Type two , the most common has short ladder or ribbed plates very similar to a Mini-watt often re-branded
 Type three , the box plate or box anode has short rectangular enclosed box shaped plates
 All genuine Mullard tubes will have a factory code etched into the glass , Google Mullard tube codes for a key


----------



## groovyd

000-4003
 CV4003
 KQDD/K
 82-35
  
 this is what is printed on the tubes i got from upscale.  they don't flash at all on startup but the ebay ones do and i think it is a heater flash as it is a slower pulse not arcing.


----------



## abvolt

groovyd said:


> 000-4003
> CV4003
> KQDD/K
> 82-35
> ...


 
  
 interesting how does the SQ compare with the tubes from upscale, would you say there the same tube and not some  inferior copy or knockoff, I've seen those tubes on ebay way less $  they sure do look like the real thing..


----------



## groovyd

abvolt said:


> interesting how does the SQ compare with the tubes from upscale, would you say there the same tube and not some  inferior copy of some knockoff, I've seen those tubes on ebay way less $  they sure do look like the real thing..


 

 the upscale tubes are much smoother and balanced sounding from top to bottom with greater extension. the ebay tubes are a bit peaky if that makes sense, maybe a bit like the JANs but not so much.


----------



## abvolt

Sorry to hear that I guess that explains the very big difference in cost, almost sounds like their not real mullards I'll stop referring that seller to people. Thanks for your input..


----------



## money4me247

can't there be great variation in sound between tubes from different years though? I wouldn't go far as to call the more inexpensive tube a fake unless there is physical evidence of it being a clone or not matching up with serial number or whatever.


----------



## happypill

To be clear, are these the Mullard tubes believed to be lower quality/knock offs?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Jeb Listens

groovyd said:


> 000-4003
> CV4003
> KQDD/K
> 82-35
> ...


 

 cool - sounds okay then.  What are printed on your Ebay ones?


----------



## Jeb Listens

happypill said:


> To be clear, are these the Mullard tubes believed to be lower quality/knock offs?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



 
 
At least from the picture, those ones above look like the genuine 70s-80s CV4003 Box Anode, mentioned by Dogmatrix, Halo Getter, in original boxes with cigar rolls. Those ones have a proper factory code etched into the glass that seems to check out.   In the picture it is shown as *R4E2*.    
 
I think I have this right:
 
R = Factory code -  R is for Mitcham Factory, England, made by Mullard
4 = year code - 1984
E = month code - May
2 - week code - manufactured in the 2nd week of May
 
In my limited knowledge, looks okay to me assuming what you see is what you get and they are not fakes with genuine factory codes which would be sly to say the least.  I've never seen a cv4003 reissue but I don't think the modern "official|" Russian mullard 12au7 re-issues even pretend to be genuine with codes etc and they seem to come in new blue Mullard branded boxes. So I think you are fine with the ones you linked but that doesn't mean the upscale ones aren't perhaps older and sound different.  
 
If Groovyd can tell us what the factory code is on the two ones he has, we could nail down where/when the better sounding ones come from.  The factory code is near the bottom of the tube.  There should be two lines - the top one is the part-code and the bottom one is the date code as far as I understand.  
 
As Money4Me says, there is bound to be variation across different years/factories, so it would be cool to fine-tune our mullard habits! 
 
and finally, damn the auto-correct keeping changing Mullard to "Mallard".  I don't want a Mallard in my WA7. 
 
Jeb.


----------



## Shini44

anyway people i bought these two days ago

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true
  
 and from the last few post from two days ago till now, we can say that these sound way different than the upscale one?

 i hate to use the bad or way different version :<   although these did cost me 100$

 now i have to buy new pair for at least 200$ cause i want the best T_T

 and still i need to buy WA7tp (alone) later this week :/


----------



## Shini44

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/
  
  
 so do i check on the "Matching: Included at no extra charge" or?  cause i want Matched Pair. 

 also did anyone ordered "Cryogenically Treated" version? what does this option mean?


----------



## Oskari

shini44 said:


> anyway people i bought these two days ago
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true
> 
> and from the last few post from two days ago till now, we can say that these sound way different than the upscale one?


 
  


shini44 said:


> http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/


 
  
 Stop fussing. Those are the same tube (with slightly different dates).


----------



## Shini44

oskari said:


> Stop fussing. Those are the same tube (with slightly different dates).


 
 no they are not :< 
  
 look at this post

http://www.head-fi.org/t/715375/woo-audio-wa7tp-tube-power-supply-impressions-thread/735#post_11525580


----------



## Oskari

shini44 said:


> no they are not :<
> 
> look at this post
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/715375/woo-audio-wa7tp-tube-power-supply-impressions-thread/735#post_11525580


 
  
 Yes, they are.
  
 That post does not specify the eBay Mullard (nor the Upscale one).


----------



## cspirou

I'd be interested to know how this sounds like compared to the Bottlehead Mainline. Both are 6c45pi amps with 12au7 tubes for the power supply. The Bottlehead amp uses a single tube for both channels while the Woo power supply has a tube for each channel. They are both pretty close in price so I think it would be an interesting comparison.
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if they sound really similar and people base their decision on factors outside of sound quality when deciding between the two amps.


----------



## Shini44

oskari said:


> That post does not specify the eBay Mullard (nor the Upscale one).


 
 "_I have the Mullards both as purchased off ebay for a decent price and from upscale_"
  
  
 how doesn't that specifys the Mullards / Ebay / upscale?   :/ 

 tbh this post flipped my mind all over, i am really thankful for any kind of info that will tell me that my tubes which is on the way does sound find :/  or the same as the one from upscale. 

 i mean they do look exactly the same :/  or doesn't they?


----------



## Jeb Listens

cspirou said:


> I'd be interested to know how this sounds like compared to the Bottlehead Mainline. Both are 6c45pi amps with 12au7 tubes for the power supply. The Bottlehead amp uses a single tube for both channels while the Woo power supply has a tube for each channel. They are both pretty close in price so I think it would be an interesting comparison.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if they sound really similar and people base their decision on factors outside of sound quality when deciding between the two amps.


 

 Great point - I didn't realise they used the 6C45s too!  i'd love to see that comparison too.  Woo products and bottlehead products are probably my favourite looking amps - obviously each for very different reasons. I have a Crack kit to build at some point so i'm interested to hear how their products compare to something as polished as the WA7.  I've been a bit intimidated to begin the build but one day they will sit side by side on my desk, looking totally incongruous but each providing a slightly different experience,  I hope.   With the added bonus of both using 12AU7s. 
  
 My understanding was that the bottlehead kits, since they are DIY enabled the user to obtain an amp of a sonic quality far in excess of the price-tag so If the WA7+tp did go toe-to-toe with the Mainline at a similar price-point, I guess I would see the WA7/TP as great value because of the premium finish, the fact that it has already been professionally built (with a parts & labour warranty) and has the onboard DAC.  I can't find many specs for the Mainline but it looks like it might be 0.6watts@32Ohm vs the WA7's 1watt?  
  
 The Mainline would have the advantage of balanced output and 2 different RCA inputs (nice), and the glory of knowing you built it yourself... of course!


----------



## cspirou

jeb listens said:


> The Mainline would have the advantage of balanced output and 2 different RCA inputs (nice), and the glory of knowing you built it yourself... of course!


 
  
 Not to mention a stepped attenuator instead of a potentiometer. Although the trade off is you do have to build it.
  
 I wouldn't put too much emphasis on price being the determining factor for quality though. Afterall, Schiit is known for changing expectations when it comes to price/quality.
  
 If you are interested in a 6c45 DIY option you can also do the L2 amp by ECP audio. When it was brand new it sold for $2400. He now offers the PCB for $45.
  
 https://squareup.com/market/ecp-consolidated-productions-llc/l-pcb


----------



## Jeb Listens

Thanks cspirou -You're right...I bet there are lots of different to assess and compare quality/price etc.
  
 The L2 looks interesting too - thanks for the link.  Man, I need to build the Crack.  Having the WA7 isn't helping.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## LemSkee

happypill said:


> To be clear, are these the Mullard tubes believed to be lower quality/knock offs?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Purchased from this same seller and wound up returning one set, then another.  Constantly arced and finally died in both instances.  Seller offered to send me a Brimar equivalent to which I agreed, and had the same result (ultimately failed after about a week).
  
 So I bit the bullet, and purchased the Mullard set from Upscale and haven't had a problem since.  They sound amazing and I finally no longer have that "am I going to see sparks" feeling when powering up the WA7tp.  
  
 Sometimes, you really do get what you pay for...


----------



## Shini44

lemskee said:


> Purchased from this same seller and wound up returning one set, then another.  Constantly arced and finally died in both instances.  Seller offered to send me a Brimar equivalent to which I agreed, and had the same result (ultimately failed after about a week).
> 
> So I bit the bullet, and purchased the Mullard set from Upscale and haven't had a problem since.  They sound amazing and I finally no longer have that "am I going to see sparks" feeling when powering up the WA7tp.
> 
> Sometimes, you really do get what you pay for...


 
 Thanks for the info, now i can go and order my tubes from Upscale


----------



## Jeb Listens

lemskee said:


> Purchased from this same seller and wound up returning one set, then another.  Constantly arced and finally died in both instances.  Seller offered to send me a Brimar equivalent to which I agreed, and had the same result (ultimately failed after about a week).
> 
> So I bit the bullet, and purchased the Mullard set from Upscale and haven't had a problem since.  They sound amazing and I finally no longer have that "am I going to see sparks" feeling when powering up the WA7tp.
> 
> Sometimes, you really do get what you pay for...


 

 Nightmare!. Did you get your cash back?


----------



## Shini44

Finished ordering +  Fedex shipping, the other set of tubes will go to a friend who might buy WA7tp soon, and i am sure he will 

 my next tube set from upscale would be the Cifte, for the sake of testing it thats all  

 i also want to taste the other tubes for fun XD


 oh i am using Chord Hugo as a DAC here, you guys want me to hook the WA7's DAC and compare both later?


----------



## abvolt

happypill said:


> To be clear, are these the Mullard tubes believed to be lower quality/knock offs?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/130295387885?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 yes those are the tubes were talking about I've not tried them and won't. It's unknown if these tubes are fake but it's also common to find fake vintage tubes..
  
 Take a look here for more info ->http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/VacuumTubesHallofShame.aspx


----------



## abvolt

lemskee said:


> Purchased from this same seller and wound up returning one set, then another.  Constantly arced and finally died in both instances.  Seller offered to send me a Brimar equivalent to which I agreed, and had the same result (ultimately failed after about a week).
> 
> So I bit the bullet, and purchased the Mullard set from Upscale and haven't had a problem since.  They sound amazing and I finally no longer have that "am I going to see sparks" feeling when powering up the WA7tp.
> 
> Sometimes, you really do get what you pay for...


 
  
 Here's another link to a very reputable seller Langrex.co.uk I use a lot, their ebay store ->http://stores.ebay.com/langrex/
 I've gotten most of my tubes from them, their a little less in cost over upscale


----------



## LemSkee

jeb listens said:


> Nightmare!. Did you get your cash back?


 
  
 Well.... so here's the thing...
  
 The seller is based in Canada, and each time the tubes would fail I'd send them back for replacement - which started getting pretty expensive and took forever.  Talking to the seller over the phone gave me the sense that he wasn't actually trying to take advantage of me, but rather, doing the best he could to get me a product that worked.  I'm no tube expert so I can only speak in laymen's terms, and while the ebay seller and Upscale had similar CV4003 tube packaging and overall appearance, the ebay seller's products failed multiple times whereas Upscale's did not.  I also noticed the Upscale tubes were wrapped in cigar rollers (like they should) versus the ebay seller which were not.  Also, and this may sound dumb, the Upscale tubes looked much cleaner and newer (even sounded better) than the ebay ones.
  
 So Jeb, in the end, I'm out $100 for the original purchase, plus another $50+ in shipping to them multiple times, and have a set of dead tubes from the entire experience.  Would have saved myself a lot of trouble going the Upscale route from the beginning.


----------



## LemSkee

abvolt said:


> yes those are the tubes were talking about I've not tried them and won't. It's unknown if these tubes are fake but it's also common to find fake vintage tubes..
> 
> Take a look here for more info ->http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/VacuumTubesHallofShame.aspx


 
  
 Ha! I've never seen that site!  Interesting...


----------



## LemSkee

abvolt said:


> Here's another link to a very reputable seller Langrex.co.uk I use a lot, their ebay store ->http://stores.ebay.com/langrex/
> I've gotten most of my tubes from them, their a little less in cost over upscale


 
  
 Thanks for the tip


----------



## Jeb Listens

lemskee said:


> Well.... so here's the thing...
> 
> The seller is based in Canada, and each time the tubes would fail I'd send them back for replacement - which started getting pretty expensive and took forever.  Talking to the seller over the phone gave me the sense that he wasn't actually trying to take advantage of me, but rather, doing the best he could to get me a product that worked.  I'm no tube expert so I can only speak in laymen's terms, and while the ebay seller and Upscale had similar CV4003 tube packaging and overall appearance, the ebay seller's products failed multiple times whereas Upscale's did not.  I also noticed the Upscale tubes were wrapped in cigar rollers (like they should) versus the ebay seller which were not.  Also, and this may sound dumb, the Upscale tubes looked much cleaner and newer (even sounded better) than the ebay ones.
> 
> So Jeb, in the end, I'm out $100 for the original purchase, plus another $50+ in shipping to them multiple times, and have a set of dead tubes from the entire experience.  Would have saved myself a lot of trouble going the Upscale route from the beginning.


 

 That's a real shame LemSkee.  From what you describe since they were kinda dirty and not in original cigar rolls/boxes it almost sounds like they might have been used tubes perhaps recycled out of old equipment or ones that had been stored poorly/water-damaged but were being passed off as "new".  Sure any tube can fail at any moment but It also sounds like they might not have been tested properly if there were repeated failures.  Not good.  Plus, taking them out of their pristine little cigar rolls is one of the great joys!
  
 I try and buy as locally as possible but yeah sometimes its unavoidable to buy from further afield in the US  (I live in UK), luckily I got from Upscale when I had to do that. But I didn't know anything about them at that point.  
  
 I've been lucky so far with my other Ebay experiences and there are bargains to be had so will continue to use it for the cheaper options...but would probably go for Langrex (UK)/Upscale(US) next time for anything remotely expensive,  especially after all the posts recently!  I'm going to add a little bit to my tube-rolling review to let people know about the dangers. 
  
 Thanks for letting us all know, Lemskee, and glad to hear you got there in the end.  Hopefully your WA7/Mullards can go some way to making up for your bad experience. 
  
 Jeb.


----------



## abvolt

lemskee said:


> Well.... so here's the thing...
> 
> The seller is based in Canada, and each time the tubes would fail I'd send them back for replacement - which started getting pretty expensive and took forever.  Talking to the seller over the phone gave me the sense that he wasn't actually trying to take advantage of me, but rather, doing the best he could to get me a product that worked.  I'm no tube expert so I can only speak in laymen's terms, and while the ebay seller and Upscale had similar CV4003 tube packaging and overall appearance, the ebay seller's products failed multiple times whereas Upscale's did not.  I also noticed the Upscale tubes were wrapped in cigar rollers (like they should) versus the ebay seller which were not.  Also, and this may sound dumb, the Upscale tubes looked much cleaner and newer (even sounded better) than the ebay ones.
> 
> So Jeb, in the end, I'm out $100 for the original purchase, plus another $50+ in shipping to them multiple times, and have a set of dead tubes from the entire experience.  Would have saved myself a lot of trouble going the Upscale route from the beginning.


 
  
 Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with this seller as *Jeb* said go with either upscale or langrex, also I never leave feed back until the tubes have been tested for maybe 5 to 7 days sellers hate bad feed back, good luck...


----------



## Shini44

48 hours passed, i sent 3 messages to upscale, no update on my order what so ever, 0 contact from their side, they even didn't bother to click on the "accept payment" on their paypal...

 so far i am not happy with this super laziness from their side...


----------



## musictoear

Upscale has such a nasty customer service. I dealt with thrm once and they have horrible customer service. People say thry have the best tubes but i rather spend my money elsewhere. You should call upscale up as they eill answer the phone but would not call people back.


----------



## Shini44

^ thanks for the info i will call them once i can.


----------



## Shini44

Mike rocks, he got my WA7tp shipped already,. and only few hours passed since i passed  


 now lets hope that Fedex wont damage it or anything O-o''  i live in Dubai. 
  
  
 oh Kevin from Upscale contacted me, at least we did process my payment, and now i am not worried, my tubes will be shipped later on ^^


----------



## abvolt

congrats on your new upgrade i'm sure you'll really enjoy the sound difference..


----------



## Shini44

WA7tp + Mullard CV4003 12AU7 Tubes    now waiting for my CIEM which will be shipped on the 3-4th of May :/  

 it will be a 12 drivers special CIEM from the Custom Art, by Peter, shelled by LE,
  
 i made the tuning specially made to be enjoyed with the WA7 Rig, based on my old TH900 + WA7 + EH tubes, back in the days.


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> WA7tp + Mullard CV4003 12AU7 Tubes    now waiting for my CIEM which will be shipped on the 3-4th of May :/
> 
> it will be a 12 drivers special CIEM from the Custom Art, by Peter, shelled by LE,
> 
> i made the tuning specially made to be enjoyed with the WA7 Rig, based on my old TH900 + WA7 + EH tubes, back in the days.


 

 Congratulations Shini - I hope you are enjoying it.  Looking very very fine indeed.  Silver.  Always a great choice.  Happy listening.
  
 The shipping and speed from Woo was fabulous in my experience too.  I ordered it on Christmas Eve.  It was shipped on Boxing-Day.  Arrived in the UK 3 days later. I couldn't believe it.
  
 Jeb.


----------



## Shini44

jeb listens said:


> Congratulations Shini - I hope you are enjoying it.  Looking very very fine indeed.  Silver.  Always a great choice.  Happy listening.
> 
> Jeb.


 
 The silver looks nice in front of the Hugo 

 also i can't enjoy it yet, i only got a V-moda-100 , which don't scale up that much and got super low limits when it comes to high end, 

 waiting for my CIEM, but at least i got the time to burn in the tubes.


----------



## Shini44

btw people, is it ok to let the WA7 be on 24/7 and use the WA7tp as the only option for the on/off? 

 like this i can tell of the WA7tp were closed or not :/  
  
  


 i hope that the WA7tp (on) + WA7(off) doesn't make the WA7tp work, cause in that state there is no light, so i can't tell the WA7tp's state :/


----------



## money4me247

shini44 said:


> btw people, is it ok to let the WA7 be on 24/7 and use the WA7tp as the only option for the on/off?
> 
> like this i can tell of the WA7tp were closed or not :/
> 
> i hope that the WA7tp (on) + WA7(off) doesn't make the WA7tp work, cause in that state there is no light, so i can't tell the WA7tp's state :/




ya, u r supposed to leave the wa7 switch on and control via the wa7tp.


----------



## Shini44

thanks for the info man, also maximum hours to be on is 8 hours right?

 then i let it rest for 15 or 30 min? to let the tubes cool down etc. 


 btw this is the 1st amp rig that made the V-moda-100 to perform higher than usual, i am shocked, even the hugo amp section alone didn't make this model shine lol, 

 still i will need to wait till my CIEM is here :<  then i will make some notes here


 but from my memory back with the X-Sabre, there was one annoying problem, the musicality in the mids / female vocal changed/ downgraded when going from the WA7's dac to the X-Sabre, maybe because the X-Sabre have the dry warmth kind of sound sig, ...this was too annoying for me :<   

 i wasn't the only one who noticed this as well, 
  
_"The level of detail is amazing. Don’t get scared because of this. Many dacs  that are very detailed tend to become analytically, loosing from the musicality, but this is not the case. The details come very natural and it reminds me of *Analog Dac*." source: http://headmania.org/2014/02/19/chord-hugo-review/_

 i will confirm that as well, once i get the CIEM and give it some time    cause i love the female vocal musicality from the WA7 DAC, i hope i won't lose that on the Hugo Chord being the new dac,

 will the time will be able to give me the answer people, so stay tuned


----------



## abvolt

sounds like your really enjoying the wa7tp awesome, after you get a real sense of the sq with stock tubes you'll hear big differences in rolling other tubes plus it's great fun doing so..


----------



## pholli4

I am writing to ask the community for advice...
  
 I just moved, and when I unpacked my wa7tp (I have the tube power supply and the amp), I did something very stupid...I installed the power tubes in the amp, and vice versa.  I then let the unit run for an hour while I tried to figure out why I wasn't getting any audio...
  
 Once I realized my mistake, I swapped the tubes back where they belong. They all still glow, but one in the amp has a bit of black at the top, and I could swear that the right audio channel isn't as loud as the left.  Also, I think it doesn't sound as pretty as before I moved.
  
 I am wondering if I did any major damage to the device, if the audio difference I hear is in my head, or what.  I sent an e-mail today to Woo so will hopefully hear something Monday.  Does anyone have any advice?  I am wondering if I should not use the power supply and amp until I hear back from Woo...
  
 So bummed.


----------



## groovyd

pholli4 said:


> I am writing to ask the community for advice...
> 
> I just moved, and when I unpacked my wa7tp (I have the tube power supply and the amp), I did something very stupid...I installed the power tubes in the amp, and vice versa.  I then let the unit run for an hour while I tried to figure out why I wasn't getting any audio...
> 
> ...


 
 Ah bummer, probably the only value it has left is giving to me


----------



## abvolt

pholli4 said:


> I am writing to ask the community for advice...
> 
> I just moved, and when I unpacked my wa7tp (I have the tube power supply and the amp), I did something very stupid...I installed the power tubes in the amp, and vice versa.  I then let the unit run for an hour while I tried to figure out why I wasn't getting any audio...
> 
> ...


 
  
 The 12AU7's filament voltage is the same as the 6C45 which is 6.3  but plate voltage of the 2 are different, the 12AU7 is 300 vs 150 for the 6C45. I would certainly contact woo audio's tech support I'm not sure what damage could have happened sorry to hear this good luck..


----------



## pholli4

In case there was any doubt, I am a noob when it comes to tube technology.  I would certainly still appreciate any advice.


----------



## pholli4

Thanks, abvolt.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Hi guys - I've just reviewed and added another half a dozen 12AU7s in Part 2 of my WA7+tp tube rolling guide  (towards the bottom of Page.4).  I also took a good look at the NOS Soviet-era Reflektor branded 6C45s for the WA7.
  
 In the WA7tp there were some excellent 12AU7s in the line-up  including some super budget options as well as some nice alternatives to the Mullard CV4003s - especially if you still want the very finest sound but feel like taking things in a slightly different sonic direction.   
  
  

  
  
  

  
  
  
  
 Jeb


----------



## abvolt

I'll be sure to check that out thanks..


----------



## abvolt

I received my vintage 6C45P-E tubes from Barnaul Russia the other day replacing my gold electro harmonix tubes, The differences in the two sets were noticeable to my ears I listen to a lot of jazz heavy in bass and to me the gold electro harmonix gives more impactful bass and the music seems smoother but not by a lot it's still noticeable.
  
 Bare in mind this is after only about 10 hours of use so I think this impression well likely change. I believe the 6C45P-E's are better in SQ then the stock woo sovtek 6C45 tubes and at half the cost definitely the way to go for a good lower cost upgrade.


----------



## desertblues

jeb listens said:


> Hi guys - I've just reviewed and added another half a dozen 12AU7s in Part 2 of my WA7+tp tube rolling guide  (towards the bottom of Page.4).  I also took a good look at the NOS Soviet-era Reflektor branded 6C45s for the WA7.
> 
> In the WA7tp there were some excellent 12AU7s in the line-up  including some super budget options as well as some nice alternatives to the Mullard CV4003s - especially if you still want the very finest sound but feel like taking things in a slightly different sonic direction.
> 
> ...




Just finished reading your tube rolling guide for the WA7, and I have to tell you this may be the best one I have ever come across based on my experiences with many of the tubes you reviewed. Should be required reading for WA7 owners! Thanks for the great review.


----------



## Jeb Listens

desertblues said:


> Just finished reading your tube rolling guide for the WA7, and I have to tell you this may be the best one I have ever come across based on my experiences with many of the tubes you reviewed. Should be required reading for WA7 owners! Thanks for the great review.


 
  
 I really appreciate that desertblues - thank you!  
  
 I'd be interested to hear what 12AU7s are you currently using in your WA7tp?   I'm still loving the Siemens silver-plates - so big and clean.  But I'm tempted to roll the Tung-Sol re-issues or JAN 5814as back in and save the best of the NOS for special occasions....ridiculous, I know.  Tubes are to be enjoyed!


----------



## Jeb Listens

abvolt said:


> I received my vintage 6C45P-E tubes from Barnaul Russia the other day replacing my gold electro harmonix tubes, The differences in the two sets were noticeable to my ears I listen to a lot of jazz heavy in bass and to me the gold electro harmonix gives more impactful bass and the music seems smoother but not by a lot it's still noticeable.
> 
> Bare in mind this is after only about 10 hours of use so I think this impression well likely change. I believe the 6C45P-E's are better in SQ then the stock woo sovtek 6C45 tubes and at half the cost definitely the way to go for a good lower cost upgrade.


 

 That's awesome abvolt - glad they worked out for you in the WA7 Amp.  
  
 It's interesting what the guys on the other thread were saying about how the quality of Russian tubes can vary so much depending on what year (and even what month!) they were produced.  I've read that the 6C45s are one of the more difficult tubes to get right too. 
  
 Black WA7 looking very nice indeed!


----------



## desertblues

jeb listens said:


> I really appreciate that desertblues - thank you!
> 
> I'd be interested to hear what 12AU7s are you currently using in your WA7tp?   I'm still loving the Siemens silver-plates - so big and clean.  But I'm tempted to roll the Tung-Sol re-issues or JAN 5814as back in and save the best of the NOS for special occasions....ridiculous, I know.  Tubes are to be enjoyed!




I am currently enjoying a pair of RCA 5814a blackplates, 3 mica 1950's vintage. I only have 12 hours on these, but they are definitely going to stay in my rotation. My favorite to date is a beautiful pair of Mullard ECC82 (Blackburn 1964 date codes). I am also fond of the RCA cleartops, but I keep going back to the Mullards. I have not heard those Siemens silver plates yet but hope to eventually. By the way, I have a pair of Reflektor 6C45 that are cryo-treated. To my ears they are slightly less detailed with a bit more bass than the EH gold-pins.


----------



## Jeb Listens

desertblues said:


> I am currently enjoying a pair of RCA 5814a blackplates, 3 mica 1950's vintage. I only have 12 hours on these, but they are definitely going to stay in my rotation. My favorite to date is a beautiful pair of Mullard ECC82 (Blackburn 1964 date codes). I am also fond of the RCA cleartops, but I keep going back to the Mullards. I have not heard those Siemens silver plates yet but hope to eventually. By the way, I have a pair of Reflektor 6C45 that are cryo-treated. To my ears they are slightly less detailed with a bit more bass than the EH gold-pins.


 
  
 Excellent stuff desertblues - there's definitely something very magical and seductive about the Mullard sound isn't there!   The RCA 5814as sound like a good bet and they seem reasonably priced too.  Maybe I'll give them a go!
  
 I highly recommend the CBS-Hytron if you get a chance: Absolutely superb.


----------



## Jeb Listens

I was able to do a little more listening this afternoon as well as audition a second pair Hytron 5814  to try and clarify some of the differences in the various versions I mentioned before.
  
 The previous pair were 1955 red label bent rectangular getter 5814*A *.  These latest were 1953 white label 5814 (no A), again bent rectangular getter.  A few  small variations in construction and some minor differences in sound.  The earliest was a little lighter on its feet, more refined but overall less rich - but still good.
  
 EDIT: after further listening I'm personally finding I do prefer the red-label CBS-Hytron to the white label Hytrons. The reds are Richer. Just more magic. 
  
 Although some other tubes (Holland-made Philips) excel in certain areas that play right into my own tastes, for me the Mullards and the CBS-Hytron might just be still top of the tree for pure musical engagement and all round goodness.  
  
 The availability/pricing of the CBS-Hytrons seems a bit sketchy.  I'm not seeing a load of them for sale but when they are around you can pick them up for as little as £20-£25 a tube.
  
  
 white label Hytrons pictured below.  Not quite on a par with the red labels.


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## money4me247

curious about your thoughts between the relative differences between the same tubes from different sources/years compared against different tube models.


----------



## abvolt

There are definitely differences in sound, at least to me. And the personal opinion factor is very real also even though the difference maybe subtle but to geeks like us, those subtle differences make for a wonderful and very addicting hobby. Hopefully this weekend I'll have my quad set of the tung sol 12AU7's 1958 awesome, won that bid for 32. oh yeah fun times..


----------



## Jeb Listens

money4me247 said:


> curious about your thoughts between the relative differences between the same tubes from different sources/years compared against different tube models.


 

 Hi Money4me! 
  
 Interesting question and one that's been on my mind since I always like to try and find some kind of pattern / system to differences in tube sounds! 
  
 Overall I would say I just don't have a broad enough of a cross-section of different 12AU7s to make a really accurate statement.  But based on the dozen or so 12AU7s I have tried I would loosely make these points to which there would always be some exceptions!
  
 1.  There's a rough line you can draw between the European sound (Philips, Mullard, Brimar, Cifte etc)  and the US sound (RCA, CBS, Sylvania).  Former tends to be warmer and more liquid/smooth while the latter can be a bit, punchier, tighter, more revealing and more lively.  This is probably the most clear  and biggest pattern in differences from the tubes I tested.
  
 2. - 2 tubes of the *same* *model **but of different manufacturer** *(e.g. a Mullard CV4003 and a Brimar CV4003  or a Sylvania 5814a and a CBS 5814a) can be as different sounding as 2 entirely different models (e.g. a 5814a and an ECC82/12AU7).    Therefore, with my testing I'm not able to say confidently something like "there's a ECC82/12AU7 sound vs a 5814a sound" even though they may have different specs. 
  
 3. The only 12AU7s I have that are the same model/manufacturer and broadly the same construction but of slightly different years (3 years apart) are the two pairs of CBS Hytrons in the post above.  Relative to the above differences this was the smallest of them all.   Much much smaller than picking 2 different models or makes.    This isn't going to be the same as with a tube that was constructed across multiple decades/factories and have different constructions e.g the Mullard CV4003 where I'm sure the differences could be night and day. 
  
 With my equipment/ears I was not able to find any meaningful differences between the NOS 6C45s and the Sovtek branded ones which come from the same factory and had almost 40 years between them but are of the same construction.  There are other people here with more resolving equipment/ different ears here so as much as I do trust my own ears  - in many ways I'd actually be surprised if there weren't minor differences between the NOS and the new ones, although I couldn't discern them myself.  
  
  
  
  
  


abvolt said:


> There are definitely differences in sound, at least to me. And the personal opinion factor is very real also even though the difference maybe subtle but to geeks like us, those subtle differences make for a wonderful and very addicting hobby. Hopefully this weekend I'll have my quad set of the tung sol 12AU7's 1954 awesome, won that bid for 32. oh yeah fun times..


 
  
 Definitely agree abvolt!  congratulations on the Tung-Sols.  Exciting times indeed.  There's nothing better than a tube bargain! That's such an great price - wow per tube that's cheaper than the re-issues!!!
  
  
 Jeb


----------



## abvolt

Well I received my vintage tung sol 12AU7's earlier today and wow you were right *Jeb*, They really deliver a good resolution in sound that is clearly audible. Beautiful sounding mids with good detail they add a sweetness to the music and the bass is well defined warm and easy to listen to, how ever I noticed they have a little less gain to them then the mullards I'm using, These are just my first impressions but so far they are excellent sounding..


----------



## Jeb Listens

abvolt said:


> Well I received my vintage tung sol 12AU7's earlier today and wow you were right *Jeb*, They really deliver a good resolution in sound that is clearly audible. Beautiful sounding mids with good detail they add a sweetness to the music and the bass is well defined warm and easy to listen to, how ever I noticed they have a little less gain to them then the mullards I'm using, These are just my first impressions but so far they are excellent sounding..


 
  
 Those boxes are so cool.  
  
 Seems like you got yourself a bargain there.   From what you describe with the resolution boost and all round performance it sounds like there might be at least some common ground between the new ones and your NOS - but its hard to say without a head-to-head and from the pics I think your ones might have longer plates. I always tend to think the NOS would sound better and have more magic!
  
 I haven't noticed the gain difference with the Tung Sol re-issues i've heard - i'm not sure of the spec differences between a 6189/12AU7WA and the regular 12AU7 other than that they are military grade with some construction differences to withstand rougher treatment.   
  
 Hope you continue to enjoy them, 
  
 Jeb.


----------



## abvolt

jeb listens said:


> Those boxes are so cool.
> 
> Seems like you got yourself a bargain there.   From what you describe with the resolution boost and all round performance it sounds like there might be at least some common ground between the new ones and your NOS - but its hard to say without a head-to-head and from the pics I think your ones might have longer plates. I always tend to think the NOS would sound better and have more magic!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've not changed back to my mullards yet these are really sounding nice, I've been using the wa7 with the gain selector set to low I switched it to high last night and they seemed to jump to life a big difference, overall SQ is much improved, very deep bass I love it and yes these were the best tube bargain I've gotten so far 6.40 ea.Lol..


----------



## groovyd

where do i get a few pair?


----------



## abvolt

dumb luck off ebay that's how I got them..


----------



## Shini44

hey guys what are a better option than normal RCA OCC cables? mine is like from amazon uk for 10 GBP, but i want a better option to connect from the DAC to WA7

 there is better copper cables, and since the stock is copper i think i will be getting higher quality copper right?  so either way i wont be losing Treble right?

 for the silver i will be losing some bass impact so i rather avoid that.


 so better copper RCA cable should do it for me? or?


 i want one from 50$ to 100$


 any tip guys?    both USA and UK options are fine.


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> hey guys what are a better option than normal RCA OCC cables? mine is like from amazon uk for 10 GBP, but i want a better option to connect from the DAC to WA7
> 
> there is better copper cables, and since the stock is copper i think i will be getting higher quality copper right?  so either way i wont be losing Treble right?
> 
> ...


 

 My approach so far has been to get simple, well made cables, hand-made, with great quality connectors that slot reassuringly into place.
  
 I've switched to using all _Mark Grant _cables in all my audio gear.   http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/
  
 I'm using his standard Canare LV61S cables - £25 a pair (1m), which consists of pure copper coax cable and nice robust Canare connectors.  I replaced some colourful and more expensive interconnects with the Mark Grants because the others seemed to pick up interference behind my stereo rack.  I don't know why.  The new cables don't do that, sound just as good and are a third of the price.  Since the Canare RCA plugs are about £5 each (and you need 4) if you were to make the cables yourself, it seemed like good value to me for a professional finish.  They've worked nicely between my DAC and WA7 when i have them hooked up that way & I always found Mark is a really nice guy to deal with if you have any questions.
  
 He also makes some more expensive cables - the G1000HD - £55 pair (1m) but I can't comment on those.


----------



## Shini44

guess i will go with the G1000HD,  so you think coming from normal 5 GBP cables , i will notice the difference? 

 also these will need to have burn in time as well right?  ofc it will take time since i use the WA7 for like 4-5 hours a day  

  
 btw is there waiting time on these? or they have a stock?


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> guess i will go with the G1000HD,  so you think coming from normal 5 GBP cables , i will notice the difference?
> 
> also these will need to have burn in time as well right?  ofc it will take time since i use the WA7 for like 4-5 hours a day
> 
> ...


 

 oh man - impossible question to answer.  I stopped using the very cheap cables because I always found the connections were a bit loose round the back, they could be noisy and eventually something would break.  Though I'm sure there are good budget options out there.
  
 As for the ones I use now: I don't notice they have a "sound".  The best I can say for them is they are totally clean and transparent and noise-free and they seem just as good as the more expensive alternatives I have tried.  When I decided to spend a lot of money on audio equipment and then on the WA7 and TP I just wasn't comfortable using the very cheap interconnects anymore when I know the internal construction of the equipment will be excellent, robust and made to last.  It's also a plus for me to be able to support a small UK based business. 
  
 I'm sure the other guys will have some great suggestions too if you wanted to wait and hear other options and different experiences.  If you go with my suggestion then the cables are made-to-order and I've usually received them within a week of placing the order.  He lets you know when the order is received, when production begins and when it ships.


----------



## abvolt

I agree using a moderately priced cable is best I've never had good luck with really low cost cables..


----------



## desertblues

jeb listens said:


> Excellent stuff desertblues - there's definitely something very magical and seductive about the Mullard sound isn't there!   The RCA 5814as sound like a good bet and they seem reasonably priced too.  Maybe I'll give them a go!
> 
> I highly recommend the CBS-Hytron if you get a chance: Absolutely superb.




Hi Jeb - I found a beautiful pair of the Hytrons (mid 1950's w/elongated bent getters natch) and installed them in the WA7 immediately. Talk about lightning in a bottle, they are indeed superb - my new favorites! I can't believe how much they improve the T1 in soundstage and isolation of instruments. I prefer them over the Mullards, and I do love my Mullards! The CBS - Hytrons also burn with a glow like no other 12au7, gorgeous tubes.


----------



## Jeb Listens

desertblues said:


> Hi Jeb - I found a beautiful pair of the Hytrons (mid 1950's w/elongated bent getters natch) and installed them in the WA7 immediately. Talk about lightning in a bottle, they are indeed superb - my new favorites! I can't believe how much they improve the T1 in soundstage and isolation of instruments. I prefer them over the Mullards, and I do love my Mullards! The CBS - Hytrons also burn with a glow like no other 12au7, gorgeous tubes.


 

 Hi there desertblues,
  
 That's brilliant - really happy to hear they worked out for you.  You know I think the mid 50s could be the ones.  Funnily enough I rolled mine back in a couple of days ago.  I had it in my mind to save them for special occasions but I decided life's too short.  
  
 I'm not familiar with the T1 but I know what you mean about the soundstage and instrument separation via the CBS-Hytrons - they are an extraordinarily realistic and holographic sounding tube with great rhythm and that extra bit of magic that only a fine NOS tube has.  It's nice to have something at a similar quality level as the Mullards but offering a different sound.  
  
 You're right They are pretty! I've been taking the glass off during listening recently.


----------



## desertblues

By now I have tried the Hytrons with the following: Grado RS1i + PS500, T1 and the Fostex TH900. Everyone of my favorite cans have benefited greatly with these tubes - the TH 900's most of all. Until now I was thinking they were better with solid state amps. I am happy to say that is no longer true!


----------



## Shini44

Bought my 2nd Tubes set, RCA clear top, hope upscale ships it soon 

 ofc the 1st were the Mullard cv4003 tubes, but i wanted my 2nd set to offer the opposite of Mullard, which is the fun part , by fun i mean forward, bright, punchy and toe taping.

 my setup is neutral, and my CIEM is neutral as well, it does have a very extended treble and a really punchy bass, but not bright sound sig, will see how this CIEM sound with this tube.



 oh guys sorry about delaying about the Hugo Dac vs WA7 DAC, i will post about that once i am done testing with the RCA top clear, cause i need at last two tube sets so i post a small comparison


----------



## abvolt

cool great tubes, you can always get those tube off tube world of even ebay for a lot less $$..


----------



## Shini44

Upscale is so bad, now my 2nd order, i payed on the 28th, and told them they have 7 days till they accept the payment else they wont be able to take the money, ( 7 days rules of UAE's bank money pending)

 basically i wanted them to accept the payment, Kevin told me since 3-4 days that he will tell them to do so, but nop, 1 simple task... they cant do it... i've sent 4-5 emails to 3 different address, for god sake, i can't bring myself to call them a company anymore, they make you big like a homeless dude looking for a free sandwich....


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> Upscale is so bad, now my 2nd order, i payed on the 28th, and told them they have 7 days till they accept the payment else they wont be able to take the money, ( 7 days rules of UAE's bank money pending)
> 
> basically i wanted them to accept the payment, Kevin told me since 3-4 days that he will tell them to do so, but nop, 1 simple task... they cant do it... i've sent 4-5 emails to 3 different address, for god sake, i can't bring myself to call them a company anymore, they make you big like a homeless dude looking for a free sandwich....


 

 Shini - Can you cancel the order and pick up a pair from elsewhere as abvolt suggests?


----------



## Shini44

jeb listens said:


> Shini - Can you cancel the order and pick up a pair from elsewhere as abvolt suggests?


 
 i will wait for 3 days, and might cancel in 2 days, i am sick of this site, i paid for fast fedex shipping (80$) , so i dont want to go and wait again etc

 Kevin is out of the town this week, thats why its a bad case here.



 so what is about tubeworld site again? fedex delivery , fast?


----------



## Jeb Listens

Sorry Shini never used them before.  
  
 Wow $80 shipping for a small package.  I understand your frustration - for that i'd want it out the door that same day.  
  
 I hope it works out for you.


----------



## Shini44

jeb listens said:


> Sorry Shini never used them before.
> 
> Wow $80 shipping for a small package.  I understand your frustration - for that i'd want it out the door that same day.
> 
> I hope it works out for you.


 
 i could easily use aramex which will take 1 week from the package arrival USA to USA, for the package to be in my hand

 but since upscale us ULTRA slow, + all the crying you have to do to get them to answer you once, it could take 2-3 weeks to see the tubes for me...

 so yes 80$ = 3 days till the tubes are in my WA7tp , thanks to Fedex priority, i rather pay and not wait and struggle. 

 so far i spammed upscale, telling them to accept the payment, i even said take your time with the tubes, just accept the payment!!!  4 days of 7 days passed , else they cant claim the money = cancellation from their side, then i get my money after 30 days.... 

 anyway people sorry for sharing the bad news and frustration here, i dont want you guys to have a bad day because of my bad posts :< 


 Seriously , i dont recommend, using upscale again ,  I REALLY HATE THEM NOW, worst Customer Service of all the times, the worst part Kevin Promised he will tell them to accept the payment, but nop, just nothing since ages
  
 i wish Kevin have an account here, so he understand what the customers of his are going through.

 once again sorry people , just very mad here....


----------



## groovyd

They are extremely over priced and slow but they do sell a good product and of the best quality.  Just one of those things in these sort of small market communities.


----------



## Shini44

which RCA clear top do i go with?

http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=rca+clear+12au7
  

 all of these have a different label (on the tube) from the one that Jeb reviewed.


 i might order tomorrow or after it, Kevin got 24-48 hours before i cancel.


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> which RCA clear top do i go with?
> 
> http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=rca+clear+12au7
> 
> ...





Hi Shini, mine were just rebranded with a different label. Any of those pairs would be fine. I don't know of any differences between 60s and 70s versions but usually older the better. I think RCAs from 50s are most sought after so of those you sent I would go 60s.

They are very expensive though.


----------



## Shini44

Thanks for the info


----------



## Shini44

and now they canceled my order,  and it will take 30 days, till i get my $$$ bank  .... :< 


 will time to visit tubes world .....


----------



## Shini44

btw people again sorry about my attitude today, been a bad four days and waiting, then BAM the cancellation, and i got to pay nearly 200$ again just to get a pair of tubes....


----------



## abvolt

upscale has really great tubes one just pays a premium for them, take a look here also -->  http://www.langrex.co.uk/


----------



## Shini44

abvolt said:


> upscale has really great tubes one just pays a premium for them, take a look here also -->  http://www.langrex.co.uk/


 
 They don't have RCA 12au7a clear top :<


----------



## Shini44

WoW my order from Tubes World is shipped already!!! i ordered like in less than 12 hours!! 

 now thats what i call a service!!!!!!   SEE!!! SEE!!!!! took less than 12 hours to process, HQ, 0 Headache, and no money lost for 30 days nor cancellation!!


 ViVa La Tubes World!!


----------



## Dogmatrix

shini44 said:


> WoW my order from Tubes World is shipped already!!! i ordered like in less than 12 hours!!
> 
> now thats what i call a service!!!!!!   SEE!!! SEE!!!!! took less than 12 hours to process, HQ, 0 Headache, and no money lost for 30 days nor cancellation!!
> 
> ...


 

 That is how it should work
  
 Now I think you need some 5814a's to round out the collection
  
 Hytron , RCA or Sylvania would do


----------



## Shini44

dogmatrix said:


> That is how it should work
> 
> Now I think you need some 5814a's to round out the collection
> 
> Hytron , RCA or Sylvania would do


 
 5184? collection wise, i only got the Mullard cv4003, and RCA clear top on the way,  the 1st for mids and all rounder, the 2nd to go coco and have pure forward sound sig + fun,  but what would the 3rd set offer?  

 gieef more info   maybe i will like it and order more for fun ^^  and maybe i will like it a lot as well O-o'' but ofc i got to read about it etc


----------



## Dogmatrix

shini44 said:


> 5184? collection wise, i only got the Mullard cv4003, and RCA clear top on the way,  the 1st for mids and all rounder, the 2nd to go coco and have pure forward sound sig + fun,  but what would the 3rd set offer?
> 
> gieef more info   maybe i will like it and order more for fun ^^  and maybe i will like it a lot as well O-o'' but ofc i got to read about it etc


 

 5814a has different output spec to 12au7
 Sylvania Jan 5814a was one of the first "upgrade " recommended in this thread discussion centred around improved bass response
 Lately the CBS Hytron and vintage RCA 5814's have been discussed for greater soundstage and separation


----------



## Shini44

dogmatrix said:


> 5814a has different output spec to 12au7
> Sylvania Jan 5814a was one of the first "upgrade " recommended in this thread discussion centred around improved bass response
> Lately the CBS Hytron and vintage RCA 5814's have been discussed for greater soundstage and separation


 
 so these work with the wa7tp as well ha?

 i went for the RCA clear top cause it has the fastest punchy bass, forward sound sig etc,  how would you compare the other sets with it?   i had to pass on the Philips cause the bass wasn't as fast and forward as RCA clear top, though the Philips is more popular and better all rounder,  i might buy it to test it one day, who knows maybe i will love it a lot.


----------



## Dogmatrix

shini44 said:


> so these work with the wa7tp as well ha?
> 
> i went for the RCA clear top cause it has the fastest punchy bass, forward sound sig etc,  how would you compare the other sets with it?   i had to pass on the Philips cause the bass wasn't as fast and forward as RCA clear top, though the Philips is more popular and better all rounder,  i might buy it to test it one day, who knows maybe i will love it a lot.


 

 The cleartops are a great choice and wait till you get them in they look spectacular
 The Mullard is probably the best all round tube you can buy for the Tp so great choice again
 5814a offer a more powerful full bodied sound certainly worth the investment
 Sylvania Jan are quite cheap and easy to find , RCA a little more difficult (look for 50's examples white print and triple mica)
 CBS Hytron are most rare and pricey don't confuse it with the CBS 12au7 which is a different more common tube


----------



## groovyd

dogmatrix said:


> 5814a has different output spec to 12au7
> Sylvania Jan 5814a was one of the first "upgrade " recommended in this thread discussion centred around improved bass response
> Lately the CBS Hytron and vintage RCA 5814's have been discussed for greater soundstage and separation


 
 Personally I am just waiting for someone to send me a link to the best pair of these Hytrons they can find so I can just pull the trigger...  I hate to have to think too hard first and I am not at all familiar with the good from the bad and all the years and variations inbetween.  Someone, please save me


----------



## abvolt

here's a link for you even has clear tops really some nice choices on 5814A's -->http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?page=1&q=5814a


----------



## groovyd

abvolt said:


> here's a link for you even has clear tops really some nice choices on 5814A's -->http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?page=1&q=5814a


 
 I've already got clear tops and JANs, was hoping to pick up some of those Hytrons


----------



## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> I've already got clear tops and JANs, was hoping to pick up some of those Hytrons


 

 My own Hytron hunt has to date been fruitless , the pairs I have come across have been too high in price and low in quality


----------



## Shini44

abvolt said:


> here's a link for you even has clear tops really some nice choices on 5814A's -->http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?page=1&q=5814a


 
 Jeblisten should buy some pairs as well >=)  so he update the reviews with some 5814a


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> Jeblisten should buy some pairs as well >=)  so he update the reviews with some 5814a


 

 lol - there are always more tubes to buy!!  You'll have fun with the clear tops 
  
 I've got impressions up for the JAN 5814as and the CBS-Hytrons 5814.  Both excellent.  JAN are some of the best value to performance around.   CBS-Hytron are an improvement in every department.    
  
 Anyone who is looking for the CBS-Hytrons have you tried vacuumtubes.net -  it's not exactly a "real-time" stock-list but they are showing CBS-Hytron 5814s for $20 a go.   I've never bought from them but seen others mention them.
  
 If they have them in stock, probably worth finding out what type they are:  it seems like there is variation in the sound/construction through the years but mostly I think the important bit is that they have the upward angled/bent getter (pictured below) as I think there might have been a later version - some of the final production - with a regular flat getter that isn't held in such high esteem.  I think those ones might have come with blue labelling on the tube too.   Never tried them: might be still a great tube relatively speaking.
  
 CBS bought Hytron Labs, I think around 1950 or earlier : so some of the tubes were labelled CBS-Hytron and some just Hytron but that shouldn't matter too much as long as they have the bent getter. 
  
 top are the '56 red label CBS-Hytron, bottom are the '53 white label Hytron.  Mostly I see people showing a preference for the latter, but I'm preferring the '56 red label. 
  
 best of luck!


----------



## groovyd

thanks for link, just ordered 8, 2 sets for each of my 2 amps just incase


----------



## Jeb Listens

Far out - Hope you like them! Price per tube seems excellent - I paid more than twice that for mine a few months ago.


----------



## Shini44

Listening to the RCA Clear top right now, god i am so happy, i love my sound this way!!!! so much fun <3  forward, fast, punchy, clean and HQ. 
  
 ofc this is just the 1st hour yet i don't know how will the sound change later.


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> Listening to the RCA Clear top right now, god i am so happy, i love my sound this way!!!! so much fun <3  forward, fast, punchy, clean and HQ.
> 
> ofc this is just the 1st hour yet i don't know how will the sound change later.


 

 Congrats Shini : sounds like true love!  Really nice to find a tube you click with. 
  
 Happy listening


----------



## Shini44

jeb listens said:


> Congrats Shini : sounds like true love!  Really nice to find a tube you click with.
> 
> Happy listening


 
 if there is a tube that does the exact same and count as an upgrade to this tube, then i need to buy it >=)


----------



## abvolt

I got a pair of 1950 RCA 3 mica blackplates that sound really good plus they can be had for a good price with some looking..


----------



## Shini44

abvolt said:


> I got a pair of 1950 RCA 3 mica blackplates that sound really good plus they can be had for a good price with some looking..


 
 so they sound thee same as thee RCA clear top? but higher quality or better dynamics? or different?


----------



## fudgebucket27

I've got some Mullards CV4003s and HD800s coming in. Wonder how they will sound compared to my current JANs and HD700


----------



## groovyd

can't speak for the change in HDs but going from JANs to the Mullards should take a bit of punch from the bass and extend the highs.  In my opinion it is all around flatter response but still very engaging all around, just not as 'beats'y.


----------



## abvolt

The mullards are my favorites you should notice a big difference they're warm deep bass is almost addictive..


----------



## Shini44

Hey guys i am selling my WA7 + WA7tp for 1250$, you get Free Express DHL Shipping, + Mullard cv4300 that i bought from Upscale

 for extra 100$ i can throw my beloved RCA Clear Top, 


 don't get me wrong this is the best tube amp out there, its just i am a CIEM user :<  CIEMs don't do 100% (depend on the CIEM) on tube amps ,
  
 next year after i move out, i might buy TH900 and HD800 then i can buy the WA7tp again. 

 for now i will try to find the best portable amp for my CIEM.

 didn't want to sell but again i am a collage student :[ 


 1250$ + free express DHL shipping (int as well) and Mullard, is a quite good deal , hope the new owner will enjoy these ^^


----------



## fudgebucket27

The mullards have come in and I think they are an upgrade from the JANS for sure. Little less bass impact but I feel like there is more of a presence along with control and tightness. Everything overall is really balanced which is awesome. Perfect fit for my new HD800s


----------



## Shini44

decided to keep the WA7tp!! man its the best tube amp lol, never letting it go  will get a U shaped sound sig CIEM, or a TH900 with Silver Widow Cable mod  


 WA7 + WA7tp


----------



## abvolt

fudgebucket27 said:


> The mullards have come in and I think they are an upgrade from the JANS for sure. Little less bass impact but I feel like there is more of a presence along with control and tightness. Everything overall is really balanced which is awesome. Perfect fit for my new HD800s


 
  
 Nice glad your enjoying the mullards there my favorites, even in my wa22 I prefer mullards their sound seems overall the best for me..


----------



## HiFiGuy528

In case of you missed it.  This is a great thread posted by @Jeb Listens 
  
[Review] WA7 & LCD-2F: DAC shoot-out & tube guide [UPDATED]


----------



## bflat

@HiFiGuy528
  
 Hey Mike,
  
 Thanks to you and Jack for getting me setup with the WA7+TP today at the SF Meet! I was ready to give up hope on my T5P and this is a great match along with my Gungnir DAC. Just ordered some EH gold pins from your website and have some Sylvania JANs on the way. No more hours of EQ tweaking for me!
  
 Got home at around 5PM and needed an hour or so to rearrange all my components and it's 1AM and I'm still listening to the new setup! BTW I'm seeing around 46 deg C on the base of the TP with my laser thermometer. I assume that's normal? DAC side is about 43.


----------



## groovyd

yep, normal


----------



## bflat

groovyd said:


> yep, normal


 

 Thanks! It was a long read through these 58 pages. Getting a pair of Mullards as well to try out.


----------



## abvolt

I think you'll be glad you did there sound is unmatched as far as I'm concerned..


----------



## cesupro

groovy, did you receive those cbs tubes yet? That site Jeb linked is crazy cheap, wondering how the quality control is? Do they match a pair for you? 

I have cleartops right now, and looking for something to mellow out my sound a bit (with ps500e's). The mullards would be the obvious choice, but they're a little more than I'd like to spend right now on tubes.


----------



## groovyd

I never did, they sent a followup email out of stock. I was bummed.


----------



## Jeb Listens

ugh that's a shame - hopefully a new batch will come on the scene at some point.
  
@cesupro  - as you say, for softening the edges on your grados and keeping things warm, the Mullard CV4003 would probably be ideal.  But if they are currently out of your price-range (and you want something to keep you going until you can afford them) I think the Sylvania JAN 5814a (~$25 pair) would still be a fair bit less aggressive and forward sounding when compared to the clear tops you are using.  
  
 JANs are great for the money - although not as smooth or as accomplished all around as the Mullards, they have some common ground with the excellent CBS-Hytrons in terms of tonality.  
  
 Also the Philips ECC82s (~$100 pair) that were made in Holland - some varying accounts of these but I find them to be a very warm tube.  These are what I've been using for the last few weeks.
  
  
 I guess the danger is that over time you could end up trying a bunch of the different cheaper tubes for the same money as getting a pair of Mullards!  Having said that - if you're like me - that's half the fun of this crazy sport.   
  
 Jeb.


----------



## cesupro

Is there much difference between the years of Mullards? The '80s go for less than the '50s/'60s.


----------



## Jeb Listens

For the CV4003 - from my reading here, I think most people (including me) have been successfully using the later 70s / early 80s ones with the dark grey "box" plates.
  
 Keep us posted on what you decide and how you get on!


----------



## Shini44

Next week saturday i will test TH900 with Toxic Cable Silver Poison on the WA7tp.

 it will sound epic  

 i  will try it with RCA Clear top and Mullard cv4003



 Oh people forgot to report about Hugo as a DAC vs WA7 DAC


 the only DAC i had which was able to give detail without sacrificing details/analogy of female vocal was this one, i also asked Jeb Listens to help me testing this theory on a certain track and indeed i was right  and thanks again Jeb for helping
  
 Matrix X-Sabre had less details and quality than Hugo Chord as a DAC, lost in every aspect, and ofc had the problem that the Hugo solved which i did mention above.

 DAC wise i will never use anything else than the Hugo Chord so i don't lose the analogy/magic/warmth/sweetness of female vocals on some good recorded tracks, some people are fine with that but not me at least

 yet most of the head-fiers don't know that because they didn't listen to the Musical Sound of the WA7's DAC which is 2nd to none, nothing i heard (musical wise) was able to produce the sound in such creamy and dreamy way, so when they use something like X-Sabre DAC, they don't know what they losing tell they compare it directly with WA7's DAC.

 using the Hugo add details and dynamics to the sound, a very very huge plus, also act as a pre amp which is a very good aspect as well.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Good-stuff Shini.  I'll look forward to your thoughts on the TH900 with the WA7/tp. Headphones i've been wanting to hear for a while now.
  
 I was able to hear the Hugo recently (as a whole package DAC & Amp together) and thought it was very nice indeed.  I can imagine that the WA7 + Hugo is extremely pleasing as well as being very easy on the eye!  2 very unique designs.


----------



## bflat

@Jeb Listens 
  
 Thanks for the awesome review and details on all the tubes. I've only been a WA7+tp owner for just over a week and you have saved me a great deal of time zeroing on what sounds best to me. Based on your impressions I got the following:
  
 Mullard CV4003 - I agree with your overall impression - it does everything well and can't go wrong with these. Most impressed with how it can be both smooth and so well defined in the upper mids and highs.
  
 Philips ECC82 Herleen - Just got these today and the bass extension and impact are noticeable compared to the Mullards, but the Mullards have tighter punchier bass. I also hear some added warmth in the lower mids. However, I miss some definition in the upper mids that I had with the Mullards. It's most noticeable on acoustic guitar (metal strings) and piano. Relatively speaking, I feel all the differences I note are perhaps +/- 2-5%.
  
 I am going to give the Philips tubes a proper burn in and also let my ears adjust. I will probably go with the Phillips because I feel it makes my T5P a truly an all purpose headphone. I wouldn't mind just a touch more high end on the Philips if burn it adds it. Considering that the price of the Philips is half that of Mullards I think it's a great choice.
  
 Forgot to mention - Mullards didn't flash on power up, but the Philips did.


----------



## Jeb Listens

bflat said:


> Mullard CV4003 - I agree with your overall impression - it does everything well and can't go wrong with these. Most impressed with how it can be both smooth and so well defined in the upper mids and highs.
> 
> Philips ECC82 Herleen - Just got these today and the bass extension and impact are noticeable compared to the Mullards, but the Mullards have tighter punchier bass. I also hear some added warmth in the lower mids. However, I miss some definition in the upper mids that I had with the Mullards. It's most noticeable on acoustic guitar (metal strings) and piano. Relatively speaking, I feel all the differences I note are perhaps +/- 2-5%.


 
  
 Hi there bflat - I'm glad it was of some use for the early stages of zeroing into your own preferences. 
  
 I think you make great points on the Mullard vs Philips Holland.  After all my listening I also felt that the bass quantity boost with the Philips was noticeable and agree that overall the bass is a little "looser"  than the Mullards.  I think putting a positive spin on it, I might call it "liquid" or juicy rather than sloppy.  I guess by that I just mean I like the way it sounds.  I think in my review I called it "wibbly", which is a slight technical variation on "wobbly".  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I think the bass does bleed into other areas somewhat which might mask a little of the detail you can hear with other tubes.  Having said that - like you - these are the tubes I'm using at the moment.  I'm totally with you when you say they are a nice all-purpose tube at a lower price -  very smooth with everything you throw at them.
  
 I'm not sure if there is wide variation in the philips holland sound, or if it really is very headphone dependent, but another member over on the review thread said he felt a real absence of bass when using them with Audeze EL-8s.  So as ever it seems like YMMV.
  
 Another one I can heartily recommend  that you can sometimes acquire for under-Mullard prices is the Siemens silver/nickel -plates ECC82.  They give a really nice boost to the soundstage and separation and have super definition right across the range.  I think sometimes when something is described that way it can make it seem like it might be cold or sterile but I never once felt this about the Siemens and would not hesitate to call it a 'warm' tube with excellent depth to the bass.  I really think this tube is unrivalled for pure sparkle & finesse out of all those I listened to, with quite a unique brand of sweetness to the sound.  If somebody was looking for a little more detail and definition but didn't want to stray too far from the Euro/Mullard sound I think the Siemens would be very close to the top of the list for a recommendation. 
  
 As ever, though, it's hard to fault the Mullard CV4003 - super-all-rounder, if you've got the budget for it.


----------



## groovyd

I really enjoy listening to the JANs... always found me with my feet tapping. Very full and musical just not as 'precise' and reference as the Mullards but they can bring a lot of enthusiasm into the music.


----------



## Shini44

The TH900 was nice with the WA7tp, with the RCA Clear Top the sound was forward & in your face, crazy bass, punchy and fun, the sound stage was bigger than what it is on Hugo Alone or Solid State amps, and the mids wasn't thin at all, i really though that the mids won't be nice but with the RCA and TH900 combo, but i was super wrong,
  
 anyway good bass texture as well, so for having Ultra Fun with the Bass and Treble going for RCA is good, but if i had to choose one tube only due budget it will be the Mullard cv4003, although i am the biggest fan of RCA.

 The Mullard cv4003 made the sound cleaner and balanced, gave the mids a push, and changed the presentation of the sound, i am sure a lot of people will pick the Mullard / TH900 combo because its really nice, but having both tubes amps also not a bad idea,
  
 the bass was tad less punchier but not falling behind, i though i would lose bass but i guess its the TH900 after all, which should sound bassy, the mids were really nice, not too forward or laid back, mixing the U shaped sound Sig TH900 with the Mullard, the mids and female vocal sounded transparent and warm, really creamy which again i didn't think that the TH900 would be able to sound like this in the mids.
  
 So bottom line TH900 + Mullard cv4003 is a win win, it maintains the bass fun by really a super margin that will make you think if Mullard cv4003 was plugged or something else, it will make the mids sound right, and get rid of the weak points, the sound stage is bigger than RCA, fuller sound as well, and the Treble was excellent as well.
  
 note the cable was Toxic Silver Poison and not the stock cable.


----------



## bflat

jeb listens said:


> I'm not sure if there is wide variation in the philips holland sound, or if it really is very headphone dependent, but another member over on the review thread said he felt a real absence of bass when using them with Audeze EL-8s.  So as ever it seems like YMMV.


 
  
 That's interesting because I tried my K10 and PM-3 with the Phillips and both sounded too bass heavy for my tastes. The K10s in particular already have a bass boost and with the Phillips it was really exaggerated. I saw that post you mentioned and purchased the tubes from the same seller by coincidence. In fact I bought another pair as backup. I would recommend anyone with a T5P and WA7 go with Phillips.
  
 In comparison to stock and T5P, I compared my RWAK240 to stock WA7+tp and the sound was comparable with stock WA7 having just a touch more warmth in low mids. I made the following changes/upgrades since:
  

EH Gold tubes
Philips ECC82 tubes
AQ Columbia RCA cables to my Gungnir
Hi-Z and Furutech 1/8 to 1/4 in adapter
 
 So going back and comparing to my RWAK240, it is night and day difference which for me is >10% overall improvement. RWAK with T5P sounds pretty flat and sterile in comparison which is funny because that's exactly what I thought comparing stock AK240 to RWAK and which is the reason why I upgraded to RWAK.
  
 I state again - T5P and WA7+tp is a great combo and the effects of tube rolling are very noticeable and one can tune exactly to personal tastes. I had nearly given up on my T5P and was going to sell at a substantial loss, but very happy I met Jack and Mike at the SF Meet.
  
 I've been looking high and low for the CBS-Hytron and Siemens but have not found a decent pair worth buying without paying ridiculous prices. BTW, the glow of the Philips looks closer to the glow of the EH gold so appears more symmetrical than other tubes I've tried. The EH just have that extra glow below the getter that's visible.


----------



## Jeb Listens

awesome - I'm all for tube glow symmetry!  It seems like a lot of great tubes came out of that Heerlen factory.   7316 Amperex would also be nice to try if they weren't so expensive. 
  
 Nice recommendation on the T5p, i'll try and give it a demo if I can.


----------



## Shini44

this is normal color right? not burned? XD hehhhe


----------



## Jeb Listens

shini44 said:


> this is normal color right? not burned? XD hehhhe


 
  
 Shini they look okay to me!
  
 The main cause for concern would be if it was white in colour, which would indicate that the tube had lost its vacuum. 
  
 Hope they sound great!


----------



## Shini44

jeb listens said:


> Shini they look okay to me!
> 
> The main cause for concern would be if it was white in colour, which would indicate that the tube had lost its vacuum.
> 
> Hope they sound great!


 
 not always, i feel like the bass on higher vol get slightly lose and muddy, but a little, and the Hugo's amp section feels way way cleaner, 

 i will do a test later when my new CIEM comes back this week

 then i will see if i need a new RCA tubes set or not, not sure if these was like this from the start or not. 
  
 want another side photos? to see the internal side.
  
  
 yet if it was burned, it shouldn't be working right? and it should sound noticeably bad, right?


----------



## Shini44

check online, most of them have this burned like color (grey) on the shields

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-pair-of-RCA-12AU7A-grey-plate-clear-top-getter-Made-in-USA-Tested-great-/252050422619?hash=item3aaf603b5b
  
  
 mine from tube world though




 sometimes the sound get bad quality, cause maybe i keep the PC up for days, when i shut it down for few min, then start it for music, the sound be better,


 didn't test in ages so i will update you next week when the CIEM is here.
  
 will test on Hugo for while, then Mullard, then the last one will be RCA Clear top, so i notice any problem, if there was any.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Yes I think you would really know about it if the tube had properly blown!
  
 When tubes that tested good to start with start to go bad you could normally expect some clearer symptoms like crackling, popping, volume changes and strange behaviour.  If it's more subtle changes in the sound (and you're not totally sure if it has always been that way) then it may just be the tubes settling down and undergoing some changes.  
  
 Visually - It's normal for those getter flashes in perfectly healthy tubes to range from shiny silver to darker shades of brown/black.
  
 You have a good plan - conduct further tests 
  
 it may be that the RCA clear-tops just distort a little at higher volumes.


----------



## Shini44

jeb listens said:


> it may be that the RCA clear-tops just distort a little at higher volumes.


 
 i doubt that its the case, with V-Moda 100 i did notice that, but i was like M100 cant controll the bass like other cans

 then TH900 had the same thing with higher volume where i see punchier bass, and it wasn't as clean as it should be.


 again it might be the PC, or what so ever, i will test next week and see, it will take time, dang i love the RCA's bass, the hugo as amp don't give me a punchy bass when compared to RCA, more quantity there, but less quality on higher volume


 Tubes should always sound clean, if its true about Clear Top being distorted at higher volume, that would be sad, 

 my unit isn't from Ebay, its from tubesworld.


 updates yet to come.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Cool, best of luck with your exploration!  Head-Fi salutes you.
  
 In my testing, some tubes definitely aren't as "clean" and clear sounding as others but if it's a _change_ in sound then that definitely warrants some further investigation.  I hope it turns out for the best... I know you loved those clear-tops!.  I found them to be quite clear and clean during my listening and the bass was always tight... one of their strong points.  
  
 Keep us posted! 
  
 Jeb.


----------



## Shini44

the CIEM is here, so i did notice all of these errors and muddy sound again,  turned out i had it on High Gain!! LOOOOOOOOOOL!!! 

 guess i forgot on this mode when i was testing some headphone before XD


 i knew something was ultra odd -.-'' 


 k will testing everything from the start now


----------



## bflat

Just want to report on my recent upgrade to Gungnir Multibit. The WA7 scales beautifully with the increased resolution. Anyone looking to upgrade to an external DAC, R2R even, the new Gungnir is a great choice.
  
 I still have the Phillips Herleen tubes in, but broke down and got some expensive Siemens silver plates on the way. Really look forward to trying those with the new Gungnir.


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## Jeb Listens

bflat said:


> Just want to report on my recent upgrade to Gungnir Multibit. The WA7 scales beautifully with the increased resolution. Anyone looking to upgrade to an external DAC, R2R even, the new Gungnir is a great choice.
> 
> I still have the Phillips Herleen tubes in, but broke down and got some expensive Siemens silver plates on the way. Really look forward to trying those with the new Gungnir.


 

 Very cool bflat, congratulations on your new DAC upgrade! - would love to see some pictures of the two together.  
  
 Very interested in R2R and I was thinking about the Audio-GD DAC 19 but the new Gungnir multibit looks very tempting.


----------



## bflat

Here is my setup. I didn't realize until after the fact that the WA7 was the only tube amp that could fit in my limited desk space.


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## Jeb Listens

bflat said:


> Here is my setup. I didn't realize until after the fact that the WA7 was the only tube amp that could fit in my limited desk space.


 
  
 Oh wow - looks so good bflat, it really does.  Dac under the screen is a great idea.  Makes me want the Gungnir-MB. 
  
 It brings joy to my heart to see so much machined aluminium.


----------



## bflat

jeb listens said:


> Oh wow - looks so good bflat, it really does.  Dac under the screen is a great idea.  Makes me want the Gungnir-MB.
> 
> It brings joy to my heart to see so much machined aluminium.


 

 Thanks!
  
 A couple technical notes on the GMB and fit. Most monitors have a platform foot unless you mount it on the wall. The GMB only has 3 rubber bumpers on the bottom - 2 up front and 1 in the center back. It is the back bumper that creates the challenge of just placing the GMB on the foot under the monitor. Fortunately, you can just unscrew the rear bumper off. I then measured the hight of my monitor foot and 3D printed a couple spacers and put some stick on silicon pads on the bottom to secure the fit on top of the monitor foot. The GMB is a pretty shallow depth so it worked out well and you can see it is slightly elevated off the desk.


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## Jeb Listens

Cool good tips!  Mine would go under an iMac.  I'll check dimensions if I go ahead.   
  
 That's a seriously potent desktop set-up, I'm not surprised you say it sounds good.  
  
 Hopefully the Siemens silver plates will seal the deal.  I Will be interested to hear how you get on with them.


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## bflat

Tube rolling update
  
 I received the Siemens silver plates a couple days ago and have been listening for the about 4 hours. I am also on day 4 of the ridiculous warming up requirements of the GMB so some of the SQ comments below may have been impacted by this.
  
 Overall - you are right Jeb, these are "the ones". In brief, the Siemens have the the bass extension of the Phillips but tighter; the smooth, slightly forward mids of the Mullards but better detail; and lastly the treble extension is better than either. In terms of soundstage, the width sounds about the same as the Mullards, but my closed headphones probably have more to do with that. However, the depth of sound especially in the layers of bass are superb. The Siemens don't have the "liquid" quality of bass of the Phillips and you lose some boom, but the accuracy and layers of sound are far superior. If you want some of the boom back, just up the 60 Hz range by about 3-6 dB.
  
 I do caution folks from putting too much into my own personal impressions. Looking at my entire chain, I have a neutral DAC (used to be warm before multi bit upgrade) and a neutral, if not analytical headphone in the T5P. Any coloration of sound on your own equipment likely impact the overall sound than just tube rolling.
  
 Perhaps it's nostalgia, but I've listened mostly to modern remasters of some classic prog rock and just loving it:

ELP (self title)
King Crimson, Night Watch
Led Zeppelin, I
Rush, various singles
  
 I think the combo of the GMB and a great tube amp like WA7 really brings these classics to life! I'm likely going to put a number of tubes in classified to recoup some rolling costs, but will probably wait until I get my Ether C and redo all the fun of rolling!
  
 I do have a couple more tubes coming - Valvo branded Philips (curious if there is a difference) and Westinghouse carbon blacks. Will report back on these as well.


----------



## Jeb Listens

Great work bflat!  Happy to hear you are enjoying the silver plates - a very nice tube indeed - as you say: layered, detailed and accurate whilst retaining enough mullard-eque smoothness to be very enjoyable and listenable too.  
  
 I understand needing to recoup some of the tube rolling costs on the classifieds - I wonder about doing the same, but I keep thinking that they'll probably double in value in 5 years anyway 
  
 I have not seen any reports to-date of the westinghouse carbon plates with the WA7tp, though I know Chry5alis was also expecting some.  Keep us posted!


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## bflat

Report back on Westinghouse 12AU7 Carbon Blacks
  
 I gave these a listen today and pretty sure these are the "correct ones" from Tube Maze:

Plates are indeed a carbon black - not grey and not flat black. Just like a #2 pencil.
Can make out factory code ending in 337
Getter post is copper and "D" getter is formed by 2 pieces of wire
Silver on top makes it difficult to see getters clearly
12AU7A marking with dots above
  
 These are really lovely tubes visually and just scream NOS. You can see through the mica plates and the overall shape of the tubes have some slight bulges around the base. I really had high hopes for these, especially given the attractive price I got these for.
  
 Unfortunately, the sound is not so lovely. I found the overall sound a bit thin. There was a decent amount of bass, but not much extension plus a little loose. Mids were not as smooth and flowing as Mullards or Siemens. The treble was forward, but pretty dry and harsh. In fact it pretty much loses all the wonderful new details from my GMB. Overall, a flat sound with nothing worth mentioning in terms of sound stage. I couldn't put the Siemens back in quick enough!
  
 This was all with a 1 hour warm up and 1 hour of listening. I now that's not a lot of time, but there would have to be some drastic improvements for me to put more effort into these. Again, this is the result for my specific components and others may want to try since these have some positive comments for other systems. Anyone know if these need a long burn in to really bloom?
  
 Last tubes I'm waiting on are Valvo branded Phillips just to see if there is a difference.


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## bflat

Last tube rolling update:
  
 Got the Valvo branded ECC82 and compared to Phillips ECC82. Both have confirmed delta factory code and confirmed made in Holland. Visually they are identical and sound wise I couldn't tell the difference. At least for me, either branded ECC82 is the same so I would recommend getting the ones that cost less. Pics are below so you can see for yourself:


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## Jeb Listens

Those are great reference pics for this thread.  
  
 Beautiful boxes in fantastic condition too - I've always loved the simple bold graphic of Valvo boxes - absolutely classic!


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## groovyd

pin metal looks different, that's all i see.


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## bflat

I forgot to mention that Noble Savant IEM sounds great with the WA7. Which is strange because with my Laylas, the sound is really dark and veiled. But with the Savant, it's a great combo imho. I think there is something in the design of the Laylas that don't mesh well with tube amps. I've tried WA7, WA8 prototype, and even a Little Dot Mk III and all produce the same bad results.
  
 If anyone is looking for a good IEM pairing with the WA7, Savant is fine choice and won't break the bank either. WA7 adds just enough meat to the lows and mids and smooths out the very extended treble of the Savants.


----------



## hawke000

Hello Everyone,
  
 Been a longtime reader of this forum but haven't signed up or posted until now. I recently went all out on the Woo Audio gear and now, in my possession, I have the following:
  
 - Woo Audio WA7d Firefiles
 - Woo Audio WA7tp Firefiles
 - Upgraded Electro Harmonix 6C45 Gold tubes
 - Resonessence Labs Concero HD DAC
 - Sennheiser HD800's (stock)
 - 6 hours of constant listening with TIDAL and FLAC files.
  
 I'm a bit new to the "audiophile," game but wanted to throw out a few impressions and idea's to see if any owners of this set up could offer a few words. 
  
 My first impression when first turning everything on and listening was "OUCH." I knew the HD800's were going to be a bit bright but it actually made me blink as if someone had smacked a finely tuned snare drum directly in my ear. There wasn't any warmth, there wasn't any low end, just Mid high's and high's right off the bat. Checked my Concero HD settings, did a few minutes of a troubleshooting and it looked like everything was fine. I even took the Concero out of the mix and used the onboard DAC (Jeez that thing make it worse).
  
 I've read online that the WA7 only makes the HD800's brighter but with the DAC it would smooth it out and it did over all but so far, nothing like what I've been reading in regards to reviews. It's tinny glass like, bright highs, no warmth, no fullness, low end isn't really there. I have a feeling I just need to let these tubes warm up to get used to the circuitry because so far I'm extremely un-impressed, there's no personality at all but I can hear the "potential."
  
 What do you guys think so far? Is there something I could be doing to help the process along or is it just a waiting game? I was surprised how excited everyone was as soon as they turned on their units to get audio nirvana but I guess I'm just not there yet. Could it be faulty gear? 
  
 Thanks for the help, look forward to hearing what the brain trust thinks.
  
 Best,
 hawke


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## money4me247

@hawke000, give it a few days to let your brain adjust to the sound sig. hopefully, you find it enjoyable. if you don't, well then, whoever was giving you advice on your gear purchase really messed up.
  
 basically, generally the easiest way to approach this hobby is to first find a headphone that suits your personal preferences... then worry about going and getting everything else.
  
 sounds to me that the headphone may be a bad fit for your tastes if you are very treble adverse. the wa7 is an extremely warm sounding amplifier, so I don't think that you will hear the HD800 sound much warmer than that. wa7 is also a bit low powered for the hd800 and I don't think that is is really an ideal pairing, though other may disagree.
  
 sounds like you got a lot of brand name expensive stuff, but pricier doesn't always mean better in this hobby. a lot of things are more preference-based. I would strongly advise against further fiddling with dac or amp or cable or tube swaps if you are just having issues with the headphone's sound signature. just swap headphones... makes life a lot easier & lot less trouble.
  
 I would look into the Audeze LCD-2 or LCD-X headphones or Fostex TH900 or Oppo PM-1/PM-2 or Sony MDR-Z7 for a bit of additional warmth/darkness. Avoid the HE-560, HE-6, K812, and T1 as they are more similar to the HD800, and they are relatively brighter sounding headphones.
  
 Swapping out your headphones will like be the easiest way to 'fix' things imo, since you already invested so much in everything else, it would be hard to move all that gear without taking a pretty big financial hit.
  
 good luck & I hope you sort it out. cheeers!


----------



## hawke000

@money4me247 Thank you very much for the response it was very informative. I'll give it a few days I can already tell a lot of it is starting to perk up after about 8 hours so I have a feeling it's just the tubes. When plugging the Sennheisers into the Macbook pro (i know i know...) what little sound came out, sounded well balanced even though the top end was a bit bright. I had figured that since the amp was neutral it would have just created more "volume" to the sound. I guess I didn't factor in the tubes as well. I'll keep at it and thanks again for the suggestion!
  
 Best,
 hawke


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## pervysage

hawke000 said:


> @money4me247 Thank you very much for the response it was very informative. I'll give it a few days I can already tell a lot of it is starting to perk up after about 8 hours so I have a feeling it's just the tubes. When plugging the Sennheisers into the Macbook pro (i know i know...) what little sound came out, sounded well balanced even though the top end was a bit bright. I had figured that since the amp was neutral it would have just created more "volume" to the sound. I guess I didn't factor in the tubes as well. I'll keep at it and thanks again for the suggestion!
> 
> Best,
> hawke




Just my 2 cents, I wouldn't give up on that HD800 just yet. With the right amp you can get all the HD800 glory with its massive soundstage and detailed sound but without that brightness. I picked up my HD800 after selling off my WA7 so I can't comment on the brightness of that combo but I did use the TH900 with the WA7 and bright tracks were sometimes fatiguing to listen to even with the TH900 which can be pretty bright itself IMO. In fact, contrary to what a lot of people say, I actually find the TH900 can be more bright than the HD800.

The WA7 is still a fantastic amp though and I have quite often thought about rebuying it, this time with the tube power supply. However I am dabbling in solid state amps at the moment 

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk


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## bflat

hawke000 said:


> @money4me247 Thank you very much for the response it was very informative. I'll give it a few days I can already tell a lot of it is starting to perk up after about 8 hours so I have a feeling it's just the tubes. When plugging the Sennheisers into the Macbook pro (i know i know...) what little sound came out, sounded well balanced even though the top end was a bit bright. I had figured that since the amp was neutral it would have just created more "volume" to the sound. I guess I didn't factor in the tubes as well. I'll keep at it and thanks again for the suggestion!
> 
> Best,
> hawke


 

 You can also try one of the following 12AU7 tubes on the WA7TP to add some more low end and smoother highs. 

Sylvania Jan 5814A (cheapest)
Philips ECC82 Holland (mid priced)
Mullard CV4003 (expensive)


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## frankrondaniel

I addition to the Mullard C4003's that have been mentioned, I also find that Brimar C4003 works nicely with the HD800's. Not crazy expensive either.


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## fudgebucket27

Uh, I've just noticed recently that I can hear a faint sound similar to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldlh7OLIdV8 when I'm not playing anything through to my HD800s. Usually it is dead silent. . Sometimes it sounds like the sound crackle when you play vinyl.  Does anyone know whats going on?


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## Jeb Listens

fudgebucket27 said:


> Uh, I've just noticed recently that I can hear a faint sound similar to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldlh7OLIdV8 when I'm not playing anything through to my HD800s. Usually it is dead silent. . Sometimes it sounds like the sound crackle when you play vinyl.  Does anyone know whats going on?


 

 Hi FB, 
  
 That doesn't sound good!  Have you done any detective work yet to try and trace the problem?  
  
 For example  putting the stock 12AU7s back in WA7tp or popping the Sovteks back in the WA7 amp?  Or tried using a different source (e.g. the WA7s internal DAC) instead of the Fiio or vice versa, or different RCA cables?.   Do you get any of the crackling with your HD800s out of a different amp?  Maybe you've tried all these things and the problem is consistent but if not then try those things one at a time and report back with your findings!   
  
 Jeb.


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## hawke000

Thank you, @pervysage @bflat
  
 I haven't given up on these bad boys, I guess since I'm new to the game I'm looking for a really nice open sound stage with a balanced sound, maybe I'm just really sensitive even though I do have brand name gear. I'll take a look at the tubes and see if they make a better fit, I'll update everyone.
  
 Thanks again,
 hawke


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## fudgebucket27

jeb listens said:


> Hi FB,
> 
> That doesn't sound good!  Have you done any detective work yet to try and trace the problem?
> 
> ...


 
 Yup just bad tubes it appears, I've put in the Sovteks and it's dead silent again!  Looks I'll need to order some more Electro Harmonix tubes.


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## Jeb Listens

fudgebucket27 said:


> Yup just bad tubes it appears, I've put in the Sovteks and it's dead silent again!  Looks I'll need to order some more Electro Harmonix tubes.


 

 Cool, well at least nothing more serious than that!
  
 Just a thought, did you try putting the Electro Harmonix back in afterwards to see if the problem came back? just in case one of the tubes wasn't quite fully seated in the socket or a bit of gunk preventing a clean connection. 
  
 Also, since it's quite unlikely to have two tubes go bad at one time, don't get rid of them both! - hopefully you can trace which one is bad when you get your new ones, although I think ideally you would still want to use the complete new matched pair.


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## fudgebucket27

jeb listens said:


> Cool, well at least nothing more serious than that!
> 
> Just a thought, did you try putting the Electro Harmonix back in afterwards to see if the problem came back? just in case one of the tubes wasn't quite fully seated in the socket or a bit of gunk preventing a clean connection.
> 
> Also, since it's quite unlikely to have two tubes go bad at one time, don't get rid of them both! - hopefully you can trace which one is bad when you get your new ones, although I think ideally you would still want to use the complete new matched pair.


 
 Oh man, I feel so dumb. I cleaned off the pins a little and reseated them back and viola, as good as new. :s


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## Jeb Listens

happy days - no worries then!


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## groovyd

recently i had an issue which was the right channel was slightly quieter then the left but by very little, had to really listen to recognize it.  Pulled both tubes out and swapped them left to right and it seems to have fixed the issue.  I think with age sometimes tubes need just a bit of attention. Just glad I stocked up and have a kit of 20 some extras in the closet to last me until the end.


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## HiFiGuy528

hawke000 said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Been a longtime reader of this forum but haven't signed up or posted until now. I recently went all out on the Woo Audio gear and now, in my possession, I have the following:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am surprised. HD800 with WA7+WA7tp is a great pairing. That is my personal system as well. I mostly use the internal DAC. Are you using TIDAL HiFi and are your FLAC files at least CD quality (16/44.1)?


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## Dogmatrix

6350 is *not* a drop in replacement adapters are required
  
Rolled in a pair of Sylvania 6350 nos 1957 about three days ago
Best tube I have ever had in my Wa7tp , easily the most dynamic spacious and detailed presentation yet
Downside  ; adapters are required as the grid and plate connections are reversed and the adapters block the led's so you only get the much more subdued light from the heaters .


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## groovyd

dogmatrix said:


> 6350 is *not* a drop in replacement adapters are required
> 
> Rolled in a pair of Sylvania 6350 nos 1957 about three days ago
> Best tube I have ever had in my Wa7tp , easily the most dynamic spacious and detailed presentation yet
> Downside  ; adapters are required as the grid and plate connections are reversed and the adapters block the led's so you only get the much more subdued light from the heaters .


 

 pictures or it didn't happen


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## Dogmatrix

So did happen
  


 Shot 1 next to a standard "long plate" 12au7 , plates in the 6350 are 20mm
 Shot 2 close up of very cool old school Sylvania logo peeping out
 Shot 3 wide shot
  
 Will take a couple of shots with tubes lit this evening oz time


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## Dogmatrix

6350 lit vs 6c45 with led


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## Jeb Listens

This is so cool... sure it changes the look of the WA7tp a little bit... but if it sounds great, what the hell!  It's quite nice the way the tubes poke their little heads above the glass like that.  If only there was a longer tube that would work in the WA7 too! 
  
 Would be great to hear what similarities/differences you can draw vs some of the usual suspects like the Mullards, Sylvania JANS, clear tops etc.  Or does it just surpass them all in all departments?
  
 By the way, you take a beautiful photo, sir.  The clean modern look of the WA7 works beautifully against the weathered wood and a great choice of colour for the backdrop.  It makes me think of swimming pools and beachfront cocktails. 
  
  
 Quote:


dogmatrix said:


> So did happen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dogmatrix

Just looked up the code on these Sylvania 6350 tubes (57-20  274) , turns out they are probably 1957 but RCA not Sylvania
 Sylvania are said to be the best of the 6350 and these sound amazing so I will have to try and hunt down some genuine Sylvanias , see if they are better than these pretenders


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## Dogmatrix

jeb listens said:


>


 

 Thanks JL
 They are very much like the Hytron 5814a which I find an improvement on the Sylvania Jan 5814a but with even more punch and control , very tight bass and heaps of detail in the mids and highs
 For me the real winner is the sense of space , makes my HE500 sound like my HD800


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## Jeb Listens

Far out - very tempting indeed. And people said this wasn't a tube-roller's amp! Are you using the eBay 12AU7/6350 adapters from China/Hong-Kong ?


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## groovyd

Sign me up for a couple pair of these and the adapters from the true sylvania if you find them please pm me where to get this stuff.  I love the logo on the tubes especially the Made In USA tagline!  Where do I get me a pair?


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## groovyd

ordered 4 adapters off ebay and 4 tubes off TubeZone in UK... would love to get a set of the same ones you got though, just love the logo.


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## groovyd

just curious what makes the 6350 and 12au7 different from a curves perspective?  do they handle more power or more linear or something?


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## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> just curious what makes the 6350 and 12au7 different from a curves perspective?  do they handle more power or more linear or something?


 

 They were built for early computers as far as I can find for power switching rapid on off cycles
 One article said they were particularly suited to phase inversion so I figured they would probably serve well as rectifiers
 Only had a quick look at the data sheets power handling is up
 I bought these on Ebay about three months back meaning to build adapters myself , never got round to it
 Recently I was searching for parts to build said adapters and found these from China so jumped on in
 Have not seen these particular 6350 since , they came from a bulk case in Italy


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## abvolt

That is cool even though I don't own my wa7/tp any longer I'd sure like to know what you guys think your impressions please..


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## Dogmatrix

So taking a closer look at the data sheets there are some major deviations
 Plate resistance the 6350 is a little less than 50% of 12au7 3900 Ohms for 6350 and 7700 Ohms for 12au7
 Transconductance is around double at 4600 umhos for 6350 and 2200 umhos for 12au7
 Plate characteristics graph shows double current to volts rate 15ma at 60v for 6350 vs 15ma at 120v for 12au7
 Interelectrode capacitances are also around double grid to plate 3.2 uuf for 6350 and 1.5 uuf for 12au7
 Amp factor is comparable at 18 for 6350 and 19 for 12au7


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## Shini44

i am Ultra Carious how would these sound compared to  RCA clear top


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## groovyd

are the spec differences something to be concerned about damaging the supply or amp?


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## Dogmatrix

shini44 said:


> i am Ultra Carious how would these sound compared to  RCA clear top


 

 Similar to clear top in terms of clarity but bigger gain and more open stage a much stronger presentation
  


groovyd said:


> are the spec differences something to be concerned about damaging the supply or amp?


 
 I did some research yesterday on tube rectifiers and it turns out most of the parameters I listed don't have much to do with a rectifier circuit
 Key parameters for a rectifier are all in the power capacity specs like plate voltage and dissipation
 For plate voltage the 6350 and 12au7 are almost identical being rated at 300v nominal and 1000v peak DC
 For plate dissipation the 6350 can output 3.85 watts per plate the 12au7 2.75 watts per plate but as I understand it these are maximum figures and the tubes will only output what the amp requires
 Another key figure with rectifiers is cathode saturation but I can't find any figures on that
 I was concerned about the heater current as the 6350 draws 0.6 amps to the 12au7 0.3 but there are no signs of transformer overload so far
 Noise floor is something I am looking for , there is nothing obvious but there may be a slight hum it is very distant and close to my own personal background noise so I am not 100% it is real . Tube rectifiers have very specific filter circuits tailored to a particular tube these smooth out the bumps in the DC left from removing the negative AC wave . Only a theory but it is possible the DC coming off the 6350 is a bit more lumpy than the filter is designed for
 Damage is always a risk with this kind of extreme rolling but the rewards are high
 Since I don't know the capacity of the transformer or the nature of the rectifier and filter circuits it is a suck it and see sort of scenario
 All good so far


----------



## Dogmatrix

Re possible noise with 6350 mentioned in previous post
 All is well it was just my laptop fan . Last night I hooked up my ASG 2 iems and everything was absolutely as it should be .
 With everything hooked up and running but music paused I could run the pot to its stop in perfect silence
 Nothing detectable under the music or between tracks either just the usual Wa7 deep black


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## groovyd

here to hoping mr. woo will divine us with whether or not this may damage the unit or the amp indirectly.  little nervous to roll them in once they arrive.


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## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> here to hoping mr. woo will divine us with whether or not this may damage the unit or the amp indirectly.  little nervous to roll them in once they arrive.


 

 That would be nice , I would like to be certain the transformer can handle the 0.6 amp heaters long term . I think 5814a also have 0.6 amp heaters but that may be two in series the data I have is not clear
 There doesn't appear to be any sign of anything being over loaded , temperature of amp and ps is normal and the lights and heaters on the 6c45 tubes are also no brighter than normal
 Sound wise there is no distortion at high volume , no background noise and the increase in gain is only a few percent
 Where my comfortable level was around 12 with the HE500 it is now 11:30
 I think you would be safe to try them out for an hour or two , you may not like the change


----------



## groovyd

but then again i may


----------



## hawke000

Hey Everyone,
  
 I am back and found that the tubes did need to be toasted to get a cleaner sound but it just "thickened" a little bit but never really opened up. I'm going to try some better tubes at some point. Strange thing is I went to this website to test frequency and everything seems to be playing back fine, low end is there everything is great. Perhaps it's just the media I'm listening to that's doing this? Is this a different test than what I should be doing?
  
 http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
  
 Best,
 hawke
  
 EDIT: Ran the sweeps through the headphones on that website and started to listen again and the bottom end came up? How is this possible? Am I going to have a stroke? It's day and night at the moment... Here's where it opened up.
  
 https://soundcloud.com/khamari-barnes/hotline-bling-drake


----------



## Dogmatrix

hawke000 said:


> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I am back and found that the tubes did need to be toasted to get a cleaner sound but it just "thickened" a little bit but never really opened up. I'm going to try some better tubes at some point. Strange thing is I went to this website to test frequency and everything seems to be playing back fine, low end is there everything is great. Perhaps it's just the media I'm listening to that's doing this? Is this a different test than what I should be doing?
> 
> ...


 

 I have used that audio check a few times I think it is quite good
 What material are you listening to ? I think the soundcloud stuff is quite compressed
 You have a quality set up and it will be revealing of any shortcomings in what you feed it


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## groovyd

my adapters and tubes arrived today... any last minute issues regarding these tubes to be aware of before giving them a try?  still cool? nothing burned out?


----------



## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> my adapters and tubes arrived today... any last minute issues regarding these tubes to be aware of before giving them a try?  still cool? nothing burned out?


 

 No problems here in fact I don't think I will ever go back to 12au7 I think the 6350 makes a much better rectifier
 Can't wait to hear what you think of them


----------



## JoeDoe

Gentlemen! I've got a complete WA7 + tp set up en route and I've got a question just out of curiosity:

Could someone water down an explanation of how rolling tubes in the power supply so drastically affects the sound coming from the amp itself? The fact that I can change sonic characteristics in this way is boggling my mind a bit...

Btw, my rig is coming with EH tubes for the WA7 and I pulled the trigger on NOS Sylanias and GE mil spec 12au7s this weekend...


----------



## Jeb Listens

joedoe said:


> Gentlemen! I've got a complete WA7 + tp set up en route and I've got a question just out of curiosity:
> 
> Could someone water down an explanation of how rolling tubes in the power supply so drastically affects the sound coming from the amp itself? The fact that I can change sonic characteristics in this way is boggling my mind a bit...
> 
> Btw, my rig is coming with EH tubes for the WA7 and I pulled the trigger on NOS Sylanias and GE mil spec 12au7s this weekend...


 

 It's a damned good question.  I've always just assumed some kind of dark-arts / magic , but there might be some science involved too. 
  
 Hopefully some more knowledgeable Head-Fi'ers will arrive momentarily.  
  
 Anyhow congratulations on your new equipment.  When you're set-up, some pictures are always welcome... when you have a chance, of course 
  
  
 What headphones will you be using ?


----------



## JoeDoe

jeb listens said:


> It's a damned good question.  I've always just assumed some kind of dark-arts / magic , but there might be some science involved too.
> 
> Hopefully some more knowledgeable Head-Fi'ers will arrive momentarily.
> 
> ...




I'll definitely post once I'm rocking and rolling!

I run three full size cans: RS1s, HE500s, and a pair of heavily-modified T50rps.


----------



## Dogmatrix

joedoe said:


> Gentlemen! I've got a complete WA7 + tp set up en route and I've got a question just out of curiosity:
> 
> Could someone water down an explanation of how rolling tubes in the power supply so drastically affects the sound coming from the amp itself? The fact that I can change sonic characteristics in this way is boggling my mind a bit...
> 
> Btw, my rig is coming with EH tubes for the WA7 and I pulled the trigger on NOS Sylanias and GE mil spec 12au7s this weekend...


 

 First up I am not an engineer so this is just what I could put together from scanning some heavy technical journals I didn't fully understand.
 The tube rectifier is a switch , it is on when the positive part of the ac is flowing but then because it will only allow electrons to flow from cathode to plate it is off when the ac goes negative .
 An ideal rectifier would switch off and on with a sharp almost square wave so when a number of these wave forms are combined at slightly different timing a flat dc current would result
 However tubes react differently to the switching task some switch on fast but off slow some visa versa so some tubes would make sharp bumps some soft bumps
 Rectifier circuits use things like chokes and capacitors to smooth out the bumps and produce a clean flat dc supply but it is never perfectly flat as a battery might produce
 Some part of the individual character of the tube comes through to the amp in the form of imperfections in the "shape" of the dc stream
 How this translates into stronger bass or wider sound stage etc , I have no idea but it most certainly does


----------



## abvolt

good explanation ..


----------



## JoeDoe

dogmatrix said:


> First up I am not an engineer so this is just what I could put together from scanning some heavy technical journals I didn't fully understand.
> The tube rectifier is a switch , it is on when the positive part of the ac is flowing but then because it will only allow electrons to flow from cathode to plate it is off when the ac goes negative .
> An ideal rectifier would switch off and on with a sharp almost square wave so when a number of these wave forms are combined at slightly different timing a flat dc current would result
> However tubes react differently to the switching task some switch on fast but off slow some visa versa so some tubes would make sharp bumps some soft bumps
> ...


 
 Had to read this three times in a row, but I think your explanation makes sense.  Thanks!


----------



## groovyd

One of the big differences is in the internal resistance of the power supply as seen by the amp.  Simply by how much does the voltage drop depending on the amount of current being demanded.  A good power supply has a very low output resistance and will output the same voltage regardless of the demand.  Another aspect is much like what was mentioned regarding the amount of ripple in the voltage provided.  A good power supply has no ripple which would translate into a proportional ripple in the output signal of the amplifier depending on how well the amplifier tolerates ripple.  In these sort of no feedback architecture amplifiers ripple is hard to correct for so it is worth beefing up the power supply and filtering to reduce ripple from the get go. We can only assume the choice of tubes in the power supply plays a big role in determining these two qualities.


----------



## JoeDoe

Let's do this:


----------



## groovyd

Plugged in the Sylvania 6350's to my work rig and woop!  Sounds great was easy to hear a difference immediately.  Bit more instrument separation, extended clearer highs and tighter bass.  All around a more cohesive authoritative sound.


----------



## Jeb Listens

@groovyd  - exciting stuff, sounds like the 6350s could be a winner.   Head-Fi salutes those pushing the boundaries with extreme tube-rolling.  
  
 Are the adapters decent quality ?  
  
 As a great man here once said... "Pictures or it didn't happen".....


----------



## Dogmatrix

groovyd said:


> Plugged in the Sylvania 6350's to my work rig and woop!  Sounds great was easy to hear a difference immediately.  Bit more instrument separation, extended clearer highs and tighter bass.  All around a more cohesive authoritative sound.


 

 Great to hear you took the plunge with positive results .
 Now we just need to work out if the GE , Sylvania and RCA versions are any different


jeb listens said:


> @groovyd  - exciting stuff, sounds like the 6350s could be a winner.   Head-Fi salutes those pushing the boundaries with extreme tube-rolling.
> 
> Are the adapters decent quality ?
> 
> As a great man here once said... "Pictures or it didn't happen".....


 
 Come on Jeb Listens you're next
 As far as the adapters are concerned they seem very well made certainly feel solid , hard to tell what is going on inside
 I have three different sets from the same people and they all work flawlessly so I would recommend


----------



## JoeDoe

Just plugged in the EH Gold Pins for the first time last night. 
  




  
 I don't remember the last time a tube upgrade created such a sonic improvement!
  
  
 This little cube continues to impress... I was on the fence about whether taking the plunge on this guy would be a worthwhile upgrade over my beloved Pan Am, but every time I listen, I feel better and better about the decision!
  
  
 Now if only I could find a buyer for the Pan Am...


----------



## groovyd

The Sylvania I got are very nice, totally NOS never used perfect condition. Sound great.  You'll have to send me yours to A/B


----------



## JoeDoe

New tubes!

NOS Sylvania JHS-6189

NOS GE 5 star JG5814a

Anyone have any experience with either of these?

EDIT: Figured I'd go ahead and post my impressions:



These GE's are no joke! Coming from the Sylvanias, they have a better all-round low end - more quantity, better quality, and lower reach. Haven't noticed as much difference in the midrange and treble, but I've only had 'em in for 10 minutes. Will post more thoughts later on!


----------



## JoeDoe

joedoe said:


> New tubes!
> 
> NOS Sylvania JHS-6189
> 
> ...


 
 To follow up:
  
 GE 5-star: 8/10 - More midrange/treble oriented than the Sylvania. Because the upper end is a little more refined, I feel like the soundstage and 3D-ness is better. Very clean overall with a more linear low end than the Syl.
  
 Sylvania: 8/10 - A little warmer with a bit more thump than the GE. Upper end isn't quite as clear, but bass guitar and kick drums are more fun, so I suppose it's a trade off.


----------



## lnyp75

Would you guys recommend the WA7 for the LCD-3's? I recently purchased a pair at a great cost, so as this came unexpected I'm now looking for a decent amp/dac at this price range.


----------



## abvolt

I don't own the lcd3's but have lcd2's and owned the wa7/tp for about a year and they sounded just great together..


----------



## groovyd

yes i own 2 sets of WA7/tp and 2 sets of LCD-X/XC and the pairing is great


----------



## bflat

groovyd said:


> yes i own 2 sets of WA7/tp and 2 sets of LCD-X/XC and the pairing is great


 

 Need some extra tubes? LOL
  
 I thought about doing the same especially with some nicely priced WA7 in classified. I decided to get a Schiit Mjolnir 2 instead for my home amp. My WA7 will be heading to my office. I find myself listening more at work lately. Now I have a full balanced at home and full SE at my office. I also thought about a WA22, but it won't fit in my home setup.


----------



## groovyd

bflat said:


> Need some extra tubes? LOL
> 
> I thought about doing the same especially with some nicely priced WA7 in classified. I decided to get a Schiit Mjolnir 2 instead for my home amp. My WA7 will be heading to my office. I find myself listening more at work lately. Now I have a full balanced at home and full SE at my office. I also thought about a WA22, but it won't fit in my home setup.


 

 I have a box of about 60 spare new tubes for both units.  I got a little mad when I realized the gold pins 6c45s or whatever they are were no longer in production.


----------



## bflat

Update on my WA7 and TP
  
 I recently got the Bifrost Multibit DAC for my office had it connected to a Little Dot MKIII amp and it was a nice combo. However curiosity got the best of me and I tried the Bifrost with the WA7 and strangely enough that combo sounds better than when I had the WA7 paired with my Gungnir Multibit. Bifrost and WA7 has a more lush and deep mid than with Gungir. After reading up on some Gungnir impressions it seems that some folks feel the SE output of Gungnir is a bit thin compared to balanced out. Since Bifrost is only SE and hearing the difference I am now in the same camp.
  
 My recommendation for the WA7 and R2R DAC would be Bifrost and not Gungnir. The fact that Bifrost Multibit can be had for $600 USD makes it a great add on and upgrade to the WA7.
  
 One more interesting note - I tried my JH16 FP with this new combo and it is awesome! Just needed to add 1.5 dB boost to 8K and 16K EQ to get it just to my liking. Still using the Siemens silver plates so will try the RCA clear tops to see how the pairing sounds.


----------



## desertblues

Hi everyone, just want to say I'm still enjoying the Hytrons in my WA7TP (much thanks to JebListens for urging me to try 'em). The SQ with these tubes is jaw-dropping at times with all my favorite headphones(TH900, T1 & Grados). One of these days I'll roll the Mullards back in but these are my top choice with the WA7!!!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

lnyp75 said:


> Would you guys recommend the WA7 for the LCD-3's? I recently purchased a pair at a great cost, so as this came unexpected I'm now looking for a decent amp/dac at this price range.


 
  
 Yes, pairs very well with LCD3.
  
 Quote:


groovyd said:


> I have a box of about 60 spare new tubes for both units.  I got a little mad when I realized the gold pins 6c45s or whatever they are were no longer in production.


 
  
 We have Electro Harmonix 6C45 Gold-pin in stock.
  
 http://wooaudio.com/products/wa7fireflies.html
  
 Quote:


desertblues said:


> Hi everyone, just want to say I'm still enjoying the Hytrons in my WA7TP (much thanks to JebListens for urging me to try 'em). The SQ with these tubes is jaw-dropping at times with all my favorite headphones(TH900, T1 & Grados). One of these days I'll roll the Mullards back in but these are my top choice with the WA7!!!


 
  
 Your collection of headphones pairs well. We would love to see a couple of pics.


----------



## George Chronis

Guys, I have a question about the WA7tp and WA7 tube rolling: It seems that there's a lot of talk about tube rolling on the Wa7tp, but not so much on the WA7. I own both amps and got the Electro Harmonix upgrade from Woo for both and also a set of RCA clear tops that were recommended by a member here.
  
 My question is: The WA7tp is a power supply. Now, I've never built a tube amp (only radio stations), but wouldn't a different tube have a larger impact on sound if you were to swap it on the WA7? I mean the WA7tp only provides power, isn't that right?
  
 Thanks for shining some light and I apologize if this a trivial question.


----------



## groovyd

Problem is there aren't many variants for the WA7 tube.  Interesting and almost counter intuive is though that the WA7tp tube swap does have a significant effect on sound.  It provides a much more stable supply of power and possibly at a slightly different voltage which may shift the gain curves of the WA7.


----------



## abvolt

That's the reason I sold my wa7/tp not too many choices available with tube rolling, best sound for the money would be the mullard cv4003's  I will say that amp sounded really nice..


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

abvolt said:


> That's the reason I sold my wa7/tp not too many choices available with tube rolling, best sound for the money would be the mullard cv4003's  I will say that amp sounded really nice..




You sold because they didn't have much tube rolling options? I think I would sell mine only if I didn't enjoy the sound of it, not because I didn't have many options for tube rolling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## abvolt

that was only one of the reasons I sold that amp, the wa22 give me a lot more depth & smoothness, power then the wa7/tp has to offer, I also use my wa22 to drive a set of powered speakers. The vast options in rolling is a very nice bonus with the wa22 and one I really enjoy..


----------



## hyperism

Yeah If 


abvolt said:


> that was only one of the reasons I sold that amp, the wa22 give me a lot more depth & smoothness, power then the wa7/tp has to offer, I also use my wa22 to drive a set of powered speakers. The vast options in rolling is a very nice bonus with the wa22 and one I really enjoy..


 
 Yeah If I upgrade to the tp it will cost the same as getting a wa22. I'm wondering if I have other choices that are better suited for the LCD3...


----------



## abvolt

hyperism said:


> Yeah If
> Yeah If I upgrade to the tp it will cost the same as getting a wa22. I'm wondering if I have other choices that are better suited for the LCD3...


 
  
 Take a look at this review, 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nuprime-dac-10h-digital-analog-converter-headphone-amp#3pHqRebdxFPvh3rg.97
  
 This is a great dac/amp


----------



## hyperism

abvolt said:


> Take a look at this review,
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nuprime-dac-10h-digital-analog-converter-headphone-amp#3pHqRebdxFPvh3rg.97
> 
> This is a great dac/amp


 
  
 I kind of prefer tube amps, due to their warmth, it's just that it needs to be super powerful seems like the LCD3 needs more power than what I have now


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## abvolt

move up to a wa22 I couldn't be happier this amp is absolutely great sounding and you will never be at a loss for power..


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## hyperism

abvolt said:


> move up to a wa22 I couldn't be happier this amp is absolutely great sounding and you will never be at a loss for power..


 
 What DAC do you recommend?


----------



## abvolt

I would definitely go with a balanced dac, the wa22 was originally designed to sound it's best with a balanced input, you don't have to go that way, but the amps designer Jack Woo highly recommends using a  balanced dac with this amp..


----------



## bflat

desertblues said:


> Hi everyone, just want to say I'm still enjoying the Hytrons in my WA7TP (much thanks to JebListens for urging me to try 'em). The SQ with these tubes is jaw-dropping at times with all my favorite headphones(TH900, T1 & Grados). One of these days I'll roll the Mullards back in but these are my top choice with the WA7!!!


 

 Nice! I finally got my hands on the Hytrons with the slanted getters. Will post back on impressions.
  
 I'm taking a long listening session on my current Siemens silver shields and T5P so I can be ready for the comparison. This is already a wonderful combo so my expectations are low that I'll hear something significantly better. But you never know what headphones I'll have 3-5 years from now so that's the argument I use to make myself feel better about the growing number of tubes in my collection. Like wine, it's hard to let them go knowing one day there will be no more of a given type and date.
  
 11-13 update - the Hytrons are awesome! I get about 1.5 dB more low end presence from 128 Hz on down compared to the Siemens silver plates. Mids are more warm but not Mullard warm. The highs have more refined details and separation. When I switched back to the Siemens, those now sound a little harsh and touch of grain at the high end. The Hytrons are the best for pairing with the T5P so far and probably end game. I think Hytrons would be great with HD800. I will keep my Siemens though since I don't know what headphones I'll be using 3-5 years from now, but the rest of my tubes are being sold below.


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## HiFiGuy528

Beautiful pic shared with us by customer.


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## abvolt

That looks cool..


----------



## simonpickard

Hi all,
  
 Very interested in picking this Amp / Dac / PSU up to drive my T1's.
 Just a few questions if anyone can answer. I've read the thread but couldn't see these answered..
  
 1. Does the WA7TP work well with the T1's?
 2. I want to use the onboard DAC, I wouldn't have cash for an external DAC so is it a good one?
 3. I'm confused about the USB/digi in. If driving from my Macbook Pro which would be better? Could I use the digi out from my macbook Pro or do I need to use USB? Is there any difference in quality?
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## bflat

simonpickard said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Very interested in picking this Amp / Dac / PSU up to drive my T1's.
> Just a few questions if anyone can answer. I've read the thread but couldn't see these answered..
> ...


 

 WA7TP does great with most headphones and you can tune to your preferences with tube rolling. Onboard DAC is good, but not the most resolving at this price point. A great and not too expensive upgrade would be the Schiit Bifrost Multibit or even Chord Mojo. Both are $600.
  
 As for USB, bits are bits, but with USB you run the chance of some noise but a good cable can generally solve that. For extreme noise, there are numerous digital filters you can get. USB is more universal than optical so I wouldn't bother paying extra for optical. Considering that you will probably upgrade the DAC at some point, makes the optical option even less appealing. Put those dollars towards a DAC.


----------



## abvolt

I use the schiit wyrd with my gear works great for any usb noise you might have and of course a good usb cable, the dac in the wa7 is very much lacking when I owned my wa7/tp I noticed a really big difference when I added a good dac to the mix. It will drive most hp's well..enjoy


----------



## hyperism

About to upgrade to the WA7tp PSU (from WA7) + Mullard Tubes. Any ideas on what to get replace the Sovtek 6C45's with? I wanted to go to WA22, but it would be too expensive at the moment. I am trying to drive an LCD3 and I don't think just the WA7+Solid State PSU alone with Stock Sovtek tubes is good enough.
  
 Do you guys think this is a good idea? thanks


----------



## abvolt

Adding the wa7tp with the cv4003's will make a huge difference in sq as far as the 6c45's that really all there is unless you go with the gold pins which offers no advantages except more money for woo..


----------



## hyperism

abvolt said:


> Adding the wa7tp with the cv4003's will make a huge difference in sq as far as the 6c45's that really all there is unless you go with the gold pins which offers no advantages except more money for woo..


 


 Awesome! About how much difference do you think it will make? Currently without the tube PSU the WA7 seems to "Choke" with the LCD3.
  
 Maybe when I get some money in the future I'll upgrade to something more powerful for the LCD3.


----------



## simonpickard

Hi all,
  
 I'm pretty new to all this so sorry if I ask something dumb.
  
 I've been (quite happily) using an Apex Glacier portable amp with my T1 headphones for some time and am blown away by the quality that little amp can produce. However there are times when I read threads such as this and wonder if I'm missing out on what my T1's are really capable of.
  
 I understand when you get to this level the differences in quality can almost be put down to a 'feeling' of what you like but if I upgraded to the very expensive (for me anyhow) wa7tp and tube psu would I notice a big jump in sound quality? I'm guessing my T1's are pretty under driven by the portable amp so the sound would be fuller? I also notice a lack of Bass at times from the Apex so would that fill in also?
  
 My other question is that the DAC on the wa7 seems to get a so-so review in this thread. If I'm spending $2000 (Australian) I can't afford to spend on a DAC. Is it really that 'bad'? Are there any happy people out there using the onboard DAC?
  
 Any advice would be amazing.
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## abvolt

I believe you would notice a big difference in sq with the wa7/tp over your current amp, as a former owner of a wa7/tp I do think the on-board dac is lacking which as you say for nearing 1600. it shouldn't be, at that time I also owned a older nuforce dac80 after I added it to my system it was very clear to me the wa7's dac is of low quality. But that's just my opinion some like the wa7/tp just as it is. I learned the hard way sold my wa7/tp got a good dac/amp very happy now..


----------



## hyperism

abvolt said:


> I believe you would notice a big difference in sq with the wa7/tp over your current amp, as a former owner of a wa7/tp I do think the on-board dac is lacking which as you say for nearing 1600. it shouldn't be, at that time I also owned a older nuforce dac80 after I added it to my system it was very clear to me the wa7's dac is of low quality. But that's just my opinion some like the wa7/tp just as it is. I learned the hard way sold my wa7/tp got a good dac/amp very happy now..


 


 I trust people here really appreciate the reply 

 Like you said it's almost $1600+ (when you also add new tubes). If I also get a DAC that kind of defeats the purpose of getting something portable like the WA7.

 What Dac+Amp combo do you have? If I have to spend $2000 total I'd rather do that then keep upgrading the WA7.


----------



## groovyd

In my opinion you will be absolutely well served with the WA7/tp combo and using it's internal DAC.  I don't think you will thereafter feel any need to upgrade.


----------



## hyperism

groovyd said:


> In my opinion you will be absolutely well served with the WA7/tp combo and using it's internal DAC.  I don't think you will thereafter feel any need to upgrade.


 


 If I don't I have to put the combo up for sale 
  
 I just want to buy an Amp/Dac combo that I can be happy for a while.

 I finally found a set of cans I really like...


----------



## bflat

hyperism said:


> If I don't I have to put the combo up for sale
> 
> I just want to buy an Amp/Dac combo that I can be happy for a while.
> 
> I finally found a set of cans I really like...


 

 there are a couple WA7 and TP for sale in classified. Given that Woo Audio is offering 10% off right now, you may be able to negotiate a sweet deal.


----------



## groovyd

hyperism said:


> If I don't I have to put the combo up for sale
> 
> I just want to buy an Amp/Dac combo that I can be happy for a while.
> 
> I finally found a set of cans I really like...


 

 My opinion is go for it, absolutely!  I own 2 sets of WA7+tp one for home and work.  The one at work runs the internal DAC and the one at home runs a McIntosh D100 DAC and to be perfectly honest with you the difference is very very very small between these two setups. The D100 is considered an exceptional DAC and really the internal DAC really holds it's own against it.  It is really about value and I believe for the cost you would be very hard to find a better DAC/Amp than the WA7/tp.


----------



## Dogmatrix

hyperism said:


> If I don't I have to put the combo up for sale
> 
> I just want to buy an Amp/Dac combo that I can be happy for a while.
> 
> I finally found a set of cans I really like...


 
 I have compared the Wa7 dac with a Yulong D18 and much like groovyd found very little difference , so I just use the Wa7 as is even though I have an upgrade option right there on the shelf
 I think the Wa7 particularly paired with the Tp is great value even in Australia
 Any headphone or iem you like will sound great out of the Wa7


----------



## Dogmatrix

hyperism said:


> About to upgrade to the WA7tp PSU (from WA7) + Mullard Tubes. Any ideas on what to get replace the Sovtek 6C45's with? I wanted to go to WA22, but it would be too expensive at the moment. I am trying to drive an LCD3 and I don't think just the WA7+Solid State PSU alone with Stock Sovtek tubes is good enough.
> 
> Do you guys think this is a good idea? thanks


 
 To give the boost you are looking for I would recommend buying some adapters on Ebay and fitting 6350 tubes to the Tp
 After running 6350 tubes for quite a few weeks I can say they are perfectly safe and easily outperform any 12au7 type including Mullard


----------



## hyperism

bflat said:


> there are a couple WA7 and TP for sale in classified. Given that Woo Audio is offering 10% off right now, you may be able to negotiate a sweet deal.


 
  
 So tp is definitely worth it...I see. Alright going to go ahead with that.
  
 I was going to go with WA22 + DAC since WA22 is about $1725 right now....


----------



## hyperism

dogmatrix said:


> To give the boost you are looking for I would recommend buying some adapters on Ebay and fitting 6350 tubes to the Tp
> After running 6350 tubes for quite a few weeks I can say they are perfectly safe and easily outperform any 12au7 type including Mullard


 
  
 Do you like the GE 6350's?


----------



## groovyd

hyperism said:


> Do you like the GE 6350's?


 

 I run them at work and they do indeed step it up a notch above the mullards and you should be able to get them and the adapters for a little less.  Of course they are taller then the stock tubes and stick out the top so it depends if you want good looks as well as great sound then the mullards are the answer.


----------



## hyperism

groovyd said:


> I run them at work and they do indeed step it up a notch above the mullards and you should be able to get them and the adapters for a little less.  Of course they are taller then the stock tubes and stick out the top so it depends if you want good looks as well as great sound then the mullards are the answer.


 
 Mullards are $95/piece (real Mullards)
  
 So if you say they are similar to Mullards I'd rather go and save a little bit of cash.
  
 PS just got the WA7tp, so can't wait to give it a shot 
 I like the footprint of these guys.


----------



## hyperism

I am just wondering if something like this with mullards would be a better idea? Maybe I'm way off ....
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rogue-Audio-Sphinx-100w-ch-tube-Hybrid-Integrated-Amp-w-remote-black-1395-List-/111828274534?hash=item1a097c0d66:g:nxIAAOSw9NxTscXr


----------



## bflat

hyperism said:


> I am just wondering if something like this with mullards would be a better idea? Maybe I'm way off ....
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rogue-Audio-Sphinx-100w-ch-tube-Hybrid-Integrated-Amp-w-remote-black-1395-List-/111828274534?hash=item1a097c0d66:g:nxIAAOSw9NxTscXr


 

 If you also have a pair of speakers you need powered and/or a turntable in need of an amp this would work out well. If it's just for your headphones, I doubt an integrated amp is going to give you better sound than a pure headphone amp. You would also need to buy a DAC.


----------



## groovyd

hyperism said:


> I am just wondering if something like this with mullards would be a better idea? Maybe I'm way off ....
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rogue-Audio-Sphinx-100w-ch-tube-Hybrid-Integrated-Amp-w-remote-black-1395-List-/111828274534?hash=item1a097c0d66:g:nxIAAOSw9NxTscXr


 

 yeah, sorry but your way off on that one... talking chinsey IC op amp headphone out vs full on tube power, not even close  as soon as you crank the WA7 up you'll be backtracking on that post for the next year


----------



## hyperism

Haha great. Can't wait to try it on 
  
 I'm dissatisfied with my current setup but hopefully it works out well. Love this forum.


----------



## groovyd

you know what i might recommend for you seeing as you are driving T1 with it is to perhaps not get the Mullards or the 6350 and adapters (because there is a bit of cost to that route too) but if you like better bass which the T1 def need then get a cheap pair of JANs instead.  Save some money and will help pair the WA7tp to the T1's a little better.  They are a bit punchier in the low end with a very energetic foot tapping sound.
  
 ah sorry that was simon who mentioned T1 but I see you have the LCD3... still I think you might like the JANs or perhaps the cleartops even better with the LCD3 gives a bit more top extension and sizzle. in any case the tp def gives the 7 a lot more balls all around... if there is any choking going on there is something else wrong.


----------



## hyperism

groovyd said:


> you know what i might recommend for you seeing as you are driving T1 with it is to perhaps not get the Mullards or the 6350 and adapters (because there is a bit of cost to that route too) but if you like better bass which the T1 def need then get a cheap pair of JANs instead.  Save some money and will help pair the WA7tp to the T1's a little better.  They are a bit punchier in the low end with a very energetic foot tapping sound.
> 
> ah sorry that was simon who mentioned T1 but I see you have the LCD3... still I think you might like the JANs or perhaps the cleartops even better with the LCD3 gives a bit more top extension and sizzle. in any case the tp def gives the 7 a lot more balls all around... if there is any choking going on there is something else wrong.


 
  
 I have the LCD3 and HD700, had the HD650 but that's gone now and a few other headohones like Ultrasones etc (which are easy to drive anyway).
  
 It's not really choking, it just feels like the WA7 with stock PSU doesn't seem to push the LCD3 to it's capability. I play via Decibel from a MacBook Pro and also via my iPhone 6s Plus (+ Lightning to USB adapter and Flacs, when the lappy isn't around).
  
 I'm not a huge fan of bass to be honest, I do like balance. I switch between the LCD3 and HD700 depending on the music. The LCD3's are exciting headphones but obviously it's not for everything. My collection of music is very eclectic so it's nice to cover the spectrum.


----------



## hyperism

I do like mids and highs more than intense bass (LCD3's have smooth rolling bass), will the cleartops do well?


----------



## simonpickard

Hello all,
  
 If someone could please explain a few things for me (I'm new to all this so forgive me)..
  
 1. I have T1 headphones and from reading the thread the... "Mullard NOS CV4003 Made In Great Britain, cryo treated sold by Upscale Audio" seem to be the tubes to get- this is for the PSU right? Does anyone know where you can buy these from in matched pairs either in the UK or Australia?
  
 2. For the above tubes to work what are people using in the main AMP unit? Just the stock tubes?
  
 3. I haven't heard anyone mention the optical in. Do you use that over the USB? Would that be better as the DAC isn't then powered by USB? If that is the case is the DAC powered by the PSU at that point?
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## groovyd

hyperism said:


> I do like mids and highs more than intense bass (LCD3's have smooth rolling bass), will the cleartops do well?


 

 yes absolutely if you like extended highs and accurate sizzle the cleartops are for you... I would say they are the perfect compliment to the LCD3s.


----------



## hyperism

groovyd said:


> yes absolutely if you like extended highs and accurate sizzle the cleartops are for you... I would say they are the perfect compliment to the LCD3s.


 
  
 Excellent, got the cleartops, waiting to give it a try.
  
 I think rolling the tubes will be fun.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

groovyd said:


> My opinion is go for it, absolutely!  I own 2 sets of WA7+tp one for home and work.  The one at work runs the internal DAC and the one at home runs a McIntosh D100 DAC and to be perfectly honest with you the difference is very very very small between these two setups. The D100 is considered an exceptional DAC and really the internal DAC really holds it's own against it.  It is really about value and I believe for the cost you would be very hard to find a better DAC/Amp than the WA7/tp.


 
  
 +1 contrary to what some reviewers say, the WA7 internal DAC is no slouch.


----------



## hyperism

Anyone using an iPhone 6s Plus (or any iOS device) with the Lightning to USB Camera kit > Woo WA7? I use it and play FLAC files without a problem. However, I'd like to know if iOS Is capable of pushing 24/96 to the Woo WA7 DAC?

 Apps I use for music on iOS:
  
 Apple Music
 TuneShell
 FLAC Player


----------



## bflat

hyperism said:


> Anyone using an iPhone 6s Plus (or any iOS device) with the Lightning to USB Camera kit > Woo WA7? I use it and play FLAC files without a problem. However, I'd like to know if iOS Is capable of pushing 24/96 to the Woo WA7 DAC?
> 
> Apps I use for music on iOS:
> 
> ...


 

 I've played up to 176/24 PCM and DSD 5.6 on an iPhone 6s using Onkyo HF player so it is not a function of iOS, but whatever the app supports.


----------



## simonpickard

Hi all,
  
 I was wondering if anyone could help. I'm trying to find some matched pairs of JAN 5814A Tubes either in Australia or in the UK.
 Where do you guys buy these from as I'm having a hard time hunting them down.
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## abvolt

You might check Langrex.com there in the uk don't know if they have the 5814a's..


----------



## EdmontonCanuck

simonpickard said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone could help. I'm trying to find some matched pairs of JAN 5814A Tubes either in Australia or in the UK.
> Where do you guys buy these from as I'm having a hard time hunting them down.
> ...




I ordered my matched pair of Sylvania JANS from http://tctubes.com

Is that what you're looking for?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## fudgebucket27

I also buy my tubes from tctubes.com and haven't had a problem with them! I'm in Australia as well and shipping only takes like a week or so


----------



## Jeb Listens

Simon, 
  
 My advice - try to keep the price around or under £20 for a NOS pair - including shipping. These are a nice budget tube for the WA7tp but as soon as you start paying significantly more the price to performance ratio drops quickly.  I bought a sleeve of 5 for around this price, they were tested as NOS but not matched.  They worked great. 
  
 Just searching eBay for Sylvania 5814A brings up lots of options for a matched pair - around £20 or a little more, all in.   At that price I'm happy to buy from eBay.


----------



## Dogmatrix

simonpickard said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone could help. I'm trying to find some matched pairs of JAN 5814A Tubes either in Australia or in the UK.
> Where do you guys buy these from as I'm having a hard time hunting them down.
> ...


 
   I agree with Jeb on this you don't need to spend big for these , Ebay has nearly 100 results for 5814 Sylvania
 Also don't think matching is important with the rectifiers just look for clean straight pins and a seller with a good rep


----------



## simonpickard

Thanks guys,
  
 Found some on ebay as recommended. Contacted the selling and he was very helpful.
 Can't wait to try them out! 
  
 All the best,
 Simon


----------



## johnkkraus

For my WA7/WA7tp I ended up going with Woo selected RCA Clear Tops and Mullard 4003s from Upscale Audio. I find myself always going back to the Clear Tops for their crispness, detail, and greater 'live' feel, at least to my ears. But what I really want are tops that would combine qualities of both- the just mentioned qualities of the clear tops, along with the smoothness and better bass of the Mullards.
  
 Any suggestions on a set of tubes I haven't tried? Or is that bigger sound actually more an indication of moving up to the WA5? Thanks.


----------



## hyperism

Would a 1/8 plug make a difference over 1/4 connected to the WA7?


----------



## Dogmatrix

hyperism said:


> Would a 1/8 plug make a difference over 1/4 connected to the WA7?


 
  The 1/8 has lower output impedance and gain optimised for iems


----------



## Dogmatrix

johnkkraus said:


> For my WA7/WA7tp I ended up going with Woo selected RCA Clear Tops and Mullard 4003s from Upscale Audio. I find myself always going back to the Clear Tops for their crispness, detail, and greater 'live' feel, at least to my ears. But what I really want are tops that would combine qualities of both- the just mentioned qualities of the clear tops, along with the smoothness and better bass of the Mullards.
> 
> Any suggestions on a set of tubes I haven't tried? Or is that bigger sound actually more an indication of moving up to the WA5? Thanks.


 
 ​5814 will give a "bigger" sound or for even bigger go for 6350 plus adapters
 If 6350 is still not big enough upgrade is the only option


----------



## johnkkraus

dogmatrix said:


> ​5814 will give a "bigger" sound or for even bigger go for 6350 plus adapters
> If 6350 is still not big enough upgrade is the only option


 

 Pardon my ignorance, what adaptors would I need, and particular suggestions on where to buy.thanks!


----------



## Dogmatrix

Quote: 





johnkkraus said:


> Pardon my ignorance, what adaptors would I need, and particular suggestions on where to buy.thanks!


 
 ​This is Ebay US
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-RCA-6350-TO-12AU7-ECC82-tube-converter-adapter-/201407638722?hash=item2ee4d4acc2:g:aoIAAOSwhcJWFhf0
  
 Search 6350 to 12au7 on your local Ebay if that does not work
  
 I have tried most of the 12au7 varieties and the 6350 beats them all by a good margin , it does alter the aesthetic a bit


----------



## johnkkraus

dogmatrix said:


> ​This is Ebay US
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-RCA-6350-TO-12AU7-ECC82-tube-converter-adapter-/201407638722?hash=item2ee4d4acc2:g:aoIAAOSwhcJWFhf0
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Dogmatrix. Will the glass top still fit over the top of the WA7tp? cheers-


----------



## Dogmatrix

johnkkraus said:


> Thanks Dogmatrix. Will the glass top still fit over the top of the WA7tp? cheers-


 
  Yes the glass fits no problem but the tubes stick out the top a little and the adapters cover the led so you only get the natural tube glow
 I think the sound is worth it though


----------



## johnkkraus

dogmatrix said:


> Yes the glass fits no problem but the tubes stick out the top a little and the adapters cover the led so you only get the natural tube glow
> I think the sound is worth it though


 

 Just want to make double sure- you're talking about adaptor and tubes for the WA7tp power supply and not the amp/DAC, yes? 
  
 Better safe than sorry! Thanks-


----------



## Dogmatrix

johnkkraus said:


> Just want to make double sure- you're talking about adaptor and tubes for the WA7tp power supply and not the amp/DAC, yes?
> 
> Better safe than sorry! Thanks-


 
 Good plan
 Yes 6350 and adapters for Wa7tp power supply
 Only 6c45 for the amp/dac although I think there is a Western Electric WE437a tube compatible with adapters but they are crazy expensive and less powerful


----------



## johnkkraus

dogmatrix said:


> ​This is Ebay US
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-gold-plated-RCA-6350-TO-12AU7-ECC82-tube-converter-adapter-/201407638722?hash=item2ee4d4acc2:g:aoIAAOSwhcJWFhf0
> 
> ...


 

 Do you have a recommendation for which 6350 to purchase? At tube world they're saying Sylvania black plate first, then GE then RCA.
 Any suggestions on which particular 6350 and where to buy appreciated!
 Also, have you compared the 6350 to the Mulllards or RCA Clear Tops? Many thanks, Dogmatrix!


----------



## Dogmatrix

johnkkraus said:


> Do you have a recommendation for which 6350 to purchase? At tube world they're saying Sylvania black plate first, then GE then RCA.
> Any suggestions on which particular 6350 and where to buy appreciated!
> Also, have you compared the 6350 to the Mulllards or RCA Clear Tops? Many thanks, Dogmatrix!


 
 My research concurs with Tube World but they are talking about a completely different application to the Wa7tp . My tubes are Sylvania branded RCA and I am happy with them . Were I looking to buy now I would probably go for the nos pair of GE five stars on Ebay . Early Sylvania are on my hunt list but are proving difficult to find .
  
 Having a quick dig through the tube box to refresh memory , I found
  
 Mullard CV4003 "box plate" I have the domestic M8136 version , certainly one of the best all rounders great midrange
 RCA 12au7 "clear top" I have a 1959 pair , excellent clarity and detail
  
 A couple of exotics that I thought bested the Mullard and RCA
  
 Mazda 12au7 silver slotted plates , wide open sound stage and amazing detail
 Ten 12au7 from Japan , super lush classic tube presentation with solid bass
  
 My favourites of the easier to find affordable tubes
  
 GE Mobile Radio 6680 , good at everything
 CBS Hytron JHY-5814a , found a nos mint pair from 1956 gave the best performance from the  Wa7 overall powerful clear and open
  
 6350 beats them all however , I think it is just a better rectifier the presentation is more powerful and at the same time effortless . Like my old Wa7 had a restrictor on it the 6350 opens everything up to full throttle


----------



## johnkkraus

dogmatrix said:


> My research concurs with Tube World but they are talking about a completely different application to the Wa7tp . My tubes are Sylvania branded RCA and I am happy with them . Were I looking to buy now I would probably go for the nos pair of GE five stars on Ebay . Early Sylvania are on my hunt list but are proving difficult to find .
> 
> Having a quick dig through the tube box to refresh memory , I found
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Dog, for all the great advice. Just ordered a pair of the GE 5 star. Hopefully it'll all work and add new sound potential to my system! cheers-


----------



## johnkkraus

Hey Dogmatrix- 
 Well I owe ya! Just received the GE 5 Stars 12AU7 tubes and the adaptors to use them on the WA7tp. Too soon to say for certain, but it sure seems incredible at first listen! So far I prefer these tubes to the RCA Clear Tops from Woo Audio, which are, indeed, fantastic. 
  
 The Clear Tops are perhaps a touch more detailed in the highs, but as you stated, there seems to be so much more overall, especially the tightness in the bass. Wow.
  
 I also just received my Double Helix Comp 4 cable, so that is a BIG new sound- combining the cable, the tubes, and my LCD-X. Many thanks for assisting in The Quest!


----------



## Dogmatrix

johnkkraus said:


> Hey Dogmatrix-
> Well I owe ya! Just received the GE 5 Stars 12AU7 tubes and the adaptors to use them on the WA7tp. Too soon to say for certain, but it sure seems incredible at first listen! So far I prefer these tubes to the RCA Clear Tops from Woo Audio, which are, indeed, fantastic.
> 
> The Clear Tops are perhaps a touch more detailed in the highs, but as you stated, there seems to be so much more overall, especially the tightness in the bass. Wow.
> ...


 
 ​Great to hear it is working out for you , always a bit of a worry when I advise someone
 I run the HE500 most of the time so I know the Wa7 can work well with planars
 You said "GE 5 Stars 12AU7 tubes" did you mean 6350 ?


----------



## johnkkraus

yes, DM, the 6350 tubes you recommended. Perhaps a bit grainy on the high end? But just started listening. Love em. thanks again.


----------



## Dogmatrix

johnkkraus said:


> yes, DM, the 6350 tubes you recommended. Perhaps a bit grainy on the high end? But just started listening. Love em. thanks again.


 
 ​Probably need a few hours to settle in , might improve . My high end seems smooth but I don't think the HE500 is as resolving as the LCD X
 You can also try different 6c45 tubes in the Wa7 proper I found the vintage Reflector version the most mellow


----------



## johnkkraus

dogmatrix said:


> ​Probably need a few hours to settle in , might improve . My high end seems smooth but I don't think the HE500 is as resolving as the LCD X
> You can also try different 6c45 tubes in the Wa7 proper I found the vintage Reflector version the most mellow


 
  
 All in all, huge improvement. Seems like I need to set the volume a touch higher compared to the Clear Tops. But a much fuller sound, i'm happy!


----------



## simonpickard

Hello all,
  
 Got my wa7tp for Christmas day! So amazed with the quality of these two little boxes with my T1 headphones.
 I read a lot of the thread and it seems there are a few people with T1's. I was wondering if I could ask a few questions...
  
 1. Does the wa7tp 'burn in'? I've only got about 20 hours on it so far and love the sound but do think it's slowly changing (for the better). Was just wondering if others have found this and if so how long did you run yours for before it was fully settled.
  
 2. T1 owners... Do you run the impedance gain at high or low? I think mines set to the default of low.
  
 3. T1 owners... What tubes are you rocking? I've tried some Sylvania Jan 5814A's but actually prefer the stock tubes I think. I love the soundstage and detail from the stock tubes. I know the bass on the Jan's is bigger but I'm not a big bass head. Is there anything out there better than the stocks for soundstage / detail over the stocks?
  
 All the best everyone and I'm very excited to be part of the club!
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## acguitar84

simonpickard said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Got my wa7tp for Christmas day! So amazed with the quality of these two little boxes with my T1 headphones.
> I read a lot of the thread and it seems there are a few people with T1's. I was wondering if I could ask a few questions...
> ...


 
 Simon, did you have the solid state power supply and the wa7 before getting the wa7tp? If so, how much improvement is there? Was it worth it? It's interesting you prefer the wa7tp stock tubes. Maybe if I purchase the wa7tp I should just get it with stock tubes and worry about tube rolling later.


----------



## groovyd

simonpickard said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Got my wa7tp for Christmas day! So amazed with the quality of these two little boxes with my T1 headphones.
> I read a lot of the thread and it seems there are a few people with T1's. I was wondering if I could ask a few questions...
> ...


 

 I have the T1 and WA7tp and can say for certain they are high impedance cans.  Typically use the setting which delivers the most output volume for the same volume setting.  That means it is most efficient at that impedance.
  
 Burn in is real... just keeps getting better.  I would say a good 60 hours before you are in the long tail.
  
 I'm using Mullards at home and sylvania 6350 at work.  If you prefer the stock to JANs you would probably also love the Mullards.  The T1 are already a little bright so probably best to avoid the cleartops.


----------



## simonpickard

Hi,
  
 Nope, didn't have the WA7 on it's own beforehand. Jumped right in with the dual amp / power supply.
 I'd say for sure go with the stock tubes to start with. It's not like the Jan's sounded bad. It was a 'bigger' sound, especially in the lower end. But it wasn't as sharp or detailed and the soundstage was vastly reduced on some tracks. Just felt a little muddy compared to the clarity of the stock tubes to me.
  
 Personally I'm not bothered about booming bass so the stocks are perfect (to my ears). If you want clarity and detail I'd say the stock tubes are an amazing listen. If you want fuller low end try the Jan's.
  
 I will try a few other tubes at a later date I'm sure but I'd be amazed if anything to me sounds better. I just can't imagine how it could at this stage I'm that happy!

  
 One other thing I will say about this setup is how amazing normal CD quality lossless sounds. I'm not kidding when I say my 44,000 16bit tracks sound as good now as any hi def stuff I've got. It's like the amp / psu pushes the quality of CD quality higher. On other setups I could hear a slight difference between cd and 24bit high sample recordings. I honestly can't on this setup with the T1's. It all sounds amazing.
  
 Lastly.. The DAC. I've tried a few different DAC's over the last few days and keep returning to the built in one. I either can't hear a difference or it sounds worse. I've wanted a kick ass all in one system for a while now. An end system if you will. For me this is it and everything else is going up for sale.
  
 it looks amazing during the day, stunning at night. Plug it in and away you go.
  
 I'm going to add the following to it soon (it's in the post).
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neet®-Wireless-Receiver-wireless-streaming/dp/B00O0U37HO
  
 I'll then have a system I can stream to without having to connect my laptop, etc.
  
 Done.


----------



## simonpickard

groovyd said:


> I have the T1 and WA7tp and can say for certain they are high impedance cans.  Typically use the setting which delivers the most output volume for the same volume setting.  That means it is most efficient at that impedance.
> 
> Burn in is real... just keeps getting better.  I would say a good 60 hours before you are in the long tail.
> 
> I'm using Mullards at home and sylvania 6350 at work.  If you prefer the stock to JANs you would probably also love the Mullards.  The T1 are already a little bright so probably best to avoid the cleartops.


 

 Hi,
  
 Do you know which Mullards you use? I will give them a go at some point I'm sure but I'm so happy with the stock tubes for now.
 Thanks for the tip regarding the high gain. I switched over last night and it does sound better. A little more bass / sub bass was added I noticed as well.
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## acguitar84

simonpickard said:


> Lastly.. The DAC. I've tried a few different DAC's over the last few days and keep returning to the built in one. I either can't hear a difference or it sounds worse. I've wanted a kick ass all in one system for a while now. An end system if you will. For me this is it and everything else is going up for sale.


 
 Which dacs did you try? I have a concero hd and to me, it's superior to the internal dac on the wa7. I just love the amp though. For me, the combo of the concero hd and the wa7 is amazing. I have the solid state power supply though, and can't help but wonder if that would make my rig sound even better.


----------



## groovyd

simonpickard said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you know which Mullards you use? I will give them a go at some point I'm sure but I'm so happy with the stock tubes for now.
> Thanks for the tip regarding the high gain. I switched over last night and it does sound better. A little more bass / sub bass was added I noticed as well.
> ...


 

 yeah go to upscale audio website and get the mullard CV4003  (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/) you won't be disappointed.  They are the same basic signature as stock but more extended and more dynamic with tighter bass and smoother more extended highs.  They are the same basic sound, but just better all across the board.
  
 matched impedance does improve the bass and sub-bass simply because the amp is not as taxed and is therefore able to provide more power across the spectrum instead of burning it away because of an impedance mis-match.  Bass and sub-bass are the first things that will be affected by a power struggle.  Some say the T1 is the perfect match for a OTL (output transformer-less) amp like the Bottlehead Crack because it matches the impedance of the tube output stage directly without transformer and therefore is one less component getting between you and your music.  You might want to take a look at buying or building a Bottlehead if the T1 is your main cans but the WA is also a very good amp for them.


----------



## simonpickard

groovyd said:


> yeah go to upscale audio website and get the mullard CV4003  (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/) you won't be disappointed.  They are the same basic signature as stock but more extended and more dynamic with tighter bass and smoother more extended highs.  They are the same basic sound, but just better all across the board.
> 
> matched impedance does improve the bass and sub-bass simply because the amp is not as taxed and is therefore able to provide more power across the spectrum instead of burning it away because of an impedance mis-match.  Bass and sub-bass are the first things that will be affected by a power struggle.  Some say the T1 is the perfect match for a OTL (output transformer-less) amp like the Bottlehead Crack because it matches the impedance of the tube output stage directly without transformer and therefore is one less component getting between you and your music.  You might want to take a look at buying or building a Bottlehead if the T1 is your main cans but the WA is also a very good amp for them.


 

 Thanks for the link. Been trying to hunt some down in Australia this morning. Will keep trying! 
 If not maybe I could paypal someone to ship a pair over to Sydney?
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## simonpickard

acguitar84 said:


> Which dacs did you try? I have a concero hd and to me, it's superior to the internal dac on the wa7. I just love the amp though. For me, the combo of the concero hd and the wa7 is amazing. I have the solid state power supply though, and can't help but wonder if that would make my rig sound even better.


 

 Hi,
  
 I tried a bit frost and my portable Glacer DAC. Haven't used a concert hd. When you say superior in what way? More detail, etc?


----------



## acguitar84

simonpickard said:


> Hi,
> 
> I tried a bit frost and my portable Glacer DAC. Haven't used a concert hd. When you say superior in what way? More detail, etc?


 
 More detail, clarity, just everything. The low end is tighter too. It's just a darn good dac. I took the concero downstairs the other day and had a shootout with it vs. my internal sound card my trusty old m audio audiophile 24/96. The concero kicked it's butt. Just better all around. My son was there too and he said the concero actually seemed to have less low end, but what's down there is tight and focused. And horns sounded much more realistic on the concero.
  
 The dac in the Wa7 seems to be on par with something like the audiophile 24/96. Decent and usable. But not like something like the concero. The amp on the wa7 is awesome though. Again the combo of the two of them and my PS1000e makes for some fun listening! I really love the amp in the wa7. Extremely quiet noise floor and good power. Very good tone.
  
 When you said bitfrost did you mean bifrost? The multibit bifrost? I'd love to hear that unit sometime. You liked the wa7's built in dac better?


----------



## simonpickard

acguitar84 said:


> More detail, clarity, just everything. The low end is tighter too. It's just a darn good dac. I took the concero downstairs the other day and had a shootout with it vs. my internal sound card my trusty old m audio audiophile 24/96. The concero kicked it's butt. Just better all around. My son was there too and he said the concero actually seemed to have less low end, but what's down there is tight and focused. And horns sounded much more realistic on the concero.
> 
> The dac in the Wa7 seems to be on par with something like the audiophile 24/96. Decent and usable. But not like something like the concero. The amp on the wa7 is awesome though. Again the combo of the two of them and my PS1000e makes for some fun listening! I really love the amp in the wa7. Extremely quiet noise floor and good power. Very good tone.
> 
> When you said bitfrost did you mean bifrost? The multibit bifrost? I'd love to hear that unit sometime. You liked the wa7's built in dac better?


 

 Very interesting.
 I'll have to try and borrow a concero at some point. Maybe it's my ears though. To me the internal DAC is pretty amazing compared to anything else I've used. Like I said after and hour of listening I couldn't actually tell the difference between the bifrost and internal, they both sounded amazing.


----------



## simonpickard

Hi,
  
 Has anyone here upgraded to the wa7 Electro Harmonix tubes in the main Amp?
 I've read a few things that say the difference in quality is tiny but can't really find anything so if anyone has swapped over, was it worth it?
  
 Regards,
 Simon


----------



## HiFiGuy528

simonpickard said:


> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone here upgraded to the wa7 Electro Harmonix tubes in the main Amp?
> I've read a few things that say the difference in quality is tiny but can't really find anything so if anyone has swapped over, was it worth it?
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763045/review-wa7-lcd-2f-dac-shoot-out-tube-guide-updated
  
 "_All that glistens_ – the Electro Harmonix Gold-Pin debate."


----------



## groovyd

no difference between stock and gold pins.


----------



## JoeDoe

Any WA7tp owners interested in tamradubg  trading for an LCD3? If so, shoot me a PM!


----------



## musicmac

simonpickard said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you know which Mullards you use? I will give them a go at some point I'm sure but I'm so happy with the stock tubes for now.
> Thanks for the tip regarding the high gain. I switched over last night and it does sound better. A little more bass / sub bass was added I noticed as well.
> ...


 
  
  


groovyd said:


> yeah go to upscale audio website and get the mullard CV4003  (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-cv4003-12au7-vintage-new-old-stock/) you won't be disappointed.  They are the same basic signature as stock but more extended and more dynamic with tighter bass and smoother more extended highs.  They are the same basic sound, but just better all across the board.
> 
> matched impedance does improve the bass and sub-bass simply because the amp is not as taxed and is therefore able to provide more power across the spectrum instead of burning it away because of an impedance mis-match.  Bass and sub-bass are the first things that will be affected by a power struggle.  Some say the T1 is the perfect match for a OTL (output transformer-less) amp like the Bottlehead Crack because it matches the impedance of the tube output stage directly without transformer and therefore is one less component getting between you and your music.  You might want to take a look at buying or building a Bottlehead if the T1 is your main cans but the WA is also a very good amp for them.


 
  
 I concur with groovyd on his comments regarding the sound signature of the Mullard CV4003.  I purchased these Mullards for my new WA7tp from Upscale Audio after doing a lot of research on the 12AU7 tubes.  For my ears, they are a perfect match for the sound signature I was after.


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## simonpickard

Hello all,
  
 So got the 4003 Mullards, I think from 1984.
 I've only done about 4 hours on them but already can hear the differences over stock.
  
 I agree with one review that to start with I was a little disappointed. They do all areas well but nothing blew me away.
  
 Then about 2 hours in something changed. Not sure what but I hopped over to Radiohead's Ok Computer (flac) and got totally lost in the sound. I ended up playing the whole album and it was like nothing I've ever heard. I must have played that album 100 times so know it like the back of my hand but honestly this was on a different level. I'm very new to hi-end gear so can best describe the experience as being inside of the music rather than listening to it.
  
 I hope that makes sense.
  
 Very excited about doing some more listening again tonight.
  
 Regards,
 Simon


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## musicmac

simonpickard said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So got the 4003 Mullards, I think from 1984.
> I've only done about 4 hours on them but already can hear the differences over stock.
> ...


 

 50-100 hours run-time seems to be the typical norm for completely breaking in tubes and for the final sound and tonal quality to settle in.


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## freitz

Curious since a lot of Audeze headphone users in this thread. I use the EL-8's closed. I wanted to know if anyone compared this to the Deckard amp dac combo? (I know the deckard might be out classed)


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## groovyd

Is there an easy fix for one of the tube holder LEDs going out on my WA7?  Can't imagine shipping both ways and weeks and other costs to send it back just for that.  Is it something i can get at without entirely opening it up? off the shelf part?


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## HiFiGuy528

groovyd said:


> Is there an easy fix for one of the tube holder LEDs going out on my WA7?  Can't imagine shipping both ways and weeks and other costs to send it back just for that.  Is it something i can get at without entirely opening it up? off the shelf part?


 
  
 It's an easy repair at the shop. Ship just the unit, no glass, no power supply. email to info@wooaudio.com for shipping address.


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## groovyd

what is the charge for the repair?


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## freitz

Anyone test this amp dac vs the deckard from Audeze?


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## simonpickard

Hello all,
  
 Just a heads up that I'm sadly selling my practically new WA7TP on Head-Fi due to needing a portable setup for travel.
 If you're in Australia and want to take a look please see:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802245/woo-audio-wa7tp-amp-power-supply-tubes-as-new


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## JoeDoe

Any WA7TP owners decide to upgrade the DAC in their unit yet?


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## bflat

joedoe said:


> Any WA7TP owners decide to upgrade the DAC in their unit yet?


 

 What's the price to upgrade?


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## JoeDoe

bflat said:


> What's the price to upgrade?




Wanting to know the answer myself!


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## JoeDoe

I got a hold of Mike and he mentioned that the details on the upgrade process will come out after they catch up one the influx of recent orders.
  
 In other news, I'll be joining the WA7tp family for the second time! Plan on feeding it with my Mojo until I can upgrade to the Sabre. Now I just need to figure out what tubes to roll in the power supply... Any suggestions for a Grado head who likes thumpy bass, rich mids, and detailed, but not razor-edged treble?


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## JoeDoe

Review mentioning the updated version: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/688-woo-audio-wa7-fireflies/


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## kyle1010

joedoe said:


> I got a hold of Mike and he mentioned that the details on the upgrade process will come out after they catch up one the influx of recent orders.
> 
> In other news, I'll be joining the WA7tp family for the second time! Plan on feeding it with my Mojo until I can upgrade to the Sabre. Now I just need to figure out what tubes to roll in the power supply... Any suggestions for a Grado head who likes thumpy bass, rich mids, and detailed, but not razor-edged treble?




I've moved up to a WA22 so I'm selling off all my WA7tp power supply tubes. I have the Phillips ECC82s, NOS Mullard CV4003s, and some CBS Hytron 5814s and 12AU7s. I also have the EH gold pins for the amp section. All with minimal use. Anyone in this thread can PM me if interested instead of searching through ebay!


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## bflat

joedoe said:


> I got a hold of Mike and he mentioned that the details on the upgrade process will come out after they catch up one the influx of recent orders.
> 
> In other news, I'll be joining the WA7tp family for the second time! Plan on feeding it with my Mojo until I can upgrade to the Sabre. Now I just need to figure out what tubes to roll in the power supply... Any suggestions for a Grado head who likes thumpy bass, rich mids, and detailed, but not razor-edged treble?


 

 LOL, you were smart in not saying this in the Mojo thread. If you would have said the Sabre DAC was an upgrade to Mojo in that thread, you would have heard about 1,000 peoples' heads explode.


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## JoeDoe

bflat said:


> LOL, you were smart in not saying this in the Mojo thread. If you would have said the Sabre DAC was an upgrade to Mojo in that thread, you would have heard about 1,000 peoples' heads explode.




Haha that was a thought that occurred to me also!


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## bflat

Waiting on the Gen 1 upgrade details.
  
 In the mean time I happen to have the Onkyo DP-X1 which has the same Sabre DAC chip as Gen 2 and tried it with the WA7 and I think this the upgrade will be well worth it. I will be using this combo until the upgrade.


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## JoeDoe

bflat said:


> Waiting on the Gen 1 upgrade details.
> 
> In the mean time I happen to have the Onkyo DP-X1 which has the same Sabre DAC chip as Gen 2 and tried it with the WA7 and I think this the upgrade will be well worth it. I will be using this combo until the upgrade.


 
 Right there with ya. If the Sabre will give just a hair more on upper end extension and separation, this would truly make the WA7 an endgame all-in-one solution.


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## Jprod

I bought the wa7 in January with the stock power brick ( Murphy's law - buy a product and a new and better version will come out shortly ). 
I contacted woo audio and they now want 749 plus shipping for the wa7tp- ouch. In effect it's a double whammy - updated product (wa7) price stays the same while the power ugrade that was not updated goes up in price. Is the wa7tp worth the $749 to upgrade over the stock power supply ? 
Thanks


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## JoeDoe

jprod said:


> I bought the wa7 in January with the stock power brick ( Murphy's law - buy a product and a new and better version will come out shortly ).
> I contacted woo audio and they now want 749 plus shipping for the wa7tp- ouch. In effect it's a double whammy - updated product (wa7) price stays the same while the power ugrade that was not updated goes up in price. Is the wa7tp worth the $749 to upgrade over the stock power supply ?
> Thanks




In short, no. There are noticeable improvements, especially with tube rolling, but $749 worth of improvement, I don't think so. But perhaps you could find one secondhand?


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## Jprod

Thanks for that quick response. It's hard to find used as a standalone product. It's usually sold as a bundle with the wa7


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## JoeDoe

jprod said:


> Thanks for that quick response. It's hard to find used as a standalone product. It's usually sold as a bundle with the wa7


 
 Right right. I figured you might be able to talk a seller into selling just the PSU by itself.


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## jamesbrobb

Does anyone else have a white sticker on the bottom of their WA7TP ('115vac 60Hz Do not remove') instead of the 110/220 voltage selector switch?
  
 I'm in the UK so checked the manual before purchase - which shows the same selector switch as the solid state PSU - but the unit i have has a sticker instead of a switch? I've emailed Mike, but don't expect a reply yet as it's the weekend, so just wondered if anyone can enlighten me as to what this means? Can i use this WA7TP with 220v?


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## sheldaze

jamesbrobb said:


> Does anyone else have a white sticker on the bottom of their WA7TP ('115vac 60Hz Do not remove') instead of the 110/220 voltage selector switch?
> 
> I'm in the UK so checked the manual before purchase - which shows the same selector switch as the solid state PSU - but the unit i have has a sticker instead of a switch? I've emailed Mike, but don't expect a reply yet as it's the weekend, so just wondered if anyone can enlighten me as to what this means? Can i use this WA7TP with 220v?


 
 The switch on the bottom of my WA7tp is identical to the switch on the bottom of my original solid state linear power supply.
 I bought the WA7tp just a couple weeks ago. There is no sticker covering the switch of either power supply.


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## jamesbrobb

Thanks Sheldaze, that's what i was expecting on mine.
  
 I'm wondering if there's a switch under the sticker, but i'm thinking not as it says 'Do not remove'.


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## Dogmatrix

jamesbrobb said:


> Thanks Sheldaze, that's what i was expecting on mine.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's a switch under the sticker, but i'm thinking not as it says 'Do not remove'.


 
 Best wait for Woo to reply . If it is 115 and you give it 220 the magic smoke will escape for sure


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## jamesbrobb

dogmatrix said:


> Best wait for Woo to reply . If it is 115 and you give it 220 the magic smoke will escape for sure


 
  
 Ha, very true indeed.


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## groovyd

sounds like a recent cost reduction.  def don't use it with the wrong voltage or it may damage


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## jamesbrobb

Mike got in contact and explained it's a recent revision to the WA7TP. Turns out you have to remove the sticker and then remove and reposition the jumpers that are exposed in order to run it as 220v.


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## HiFiGuy528

jamesbrobb said:


> Mike got in contact and explained it's a recent revision to the WA7TP. Turns out you have to remove the sticker and then remove and reposition the jumpers that are exposed in order to run it as 220v.


 
  
 Happy to help.


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## bflat

hifiguy528 said:


> Happy to help.


 

 Mike, any update on upgrade service/cost of Gen 1 WA7 to Gen 2?


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## JoeDoe

bflat said:


> Mike, any update on upgrade service/cost of Gen 1 WA7 to Gen 2?


 
 Yes, we wait with baited breath!


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## bflat

joedoe said:


> Yes, we wait with baited breath!


 

 Let's start naming our own price - I'm good for $200!


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## groovyd

bflat said:


> Let's start naming our own price - I'm good for $200!


 

 Little steep, I'm good for $175 shipping included


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## HiFiGuy528

Sorry for the wait on the upgrade option. We'll have more details and open the gates when production is more caught up. We have a lot of patiently waiting WA8 Eclipse customers. A good problem to have I guess...


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## bflat

Well, I've never been known for my patience. Going to go ahead and sell my WA7 WA7tp to have cash on hand to get the WA8 instead of waiting for the upgrade. Honestly, I am glad there is no tube rolling for the WA8 LOL.


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## JoeDoe

Before I sold my WA7tp, I purchased a lot of NOS Mullard CV4003's. Selling the leftovers at a decent discount if any of you fine gentlemen are interested!


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## WilliamLeonhart

Pardon my very limited knowledge, but I don't get what "power supply" means. Is it true to say that the wa7tp is an additional amp upgrade for the wa7d?


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## EdmontonCanuck

It is a power supply upgrade. It replaces the SMPS that came with the WA7 with a tube-based power supply. It is a significant upgrade that is well worth considering.


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## Cardiiiii

Do the newer TPs still have the wobbly power button?


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## groovyd

cardiiiii said:


> Do the newer TPs still have the wobbly power button?


 

 yes... agree it should be a proper switch or better yet just turn on when the WA7 volume knob is turned above 0.


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## Cardiiiii

groovyd said:


> yes... agree it should be a proper switch or better yet just turn on when the WA7 volume knob is turned above 0.




Yeah it just doesn't go with the rest of the build quality which is just top notch.


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## Cardiiiii

How's everyone going with the Sylvania 6350? Does it have any detriment to the WA7tp?


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## Dogmatrix

cardiiiii said:


> How's everyone going with the Sylvania 6350? Does it have any detriment to the WA7tp?


 

 12 months now no problem
 Bought 2 pair but still on the first set


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## Cardiiiii

dogmatrix said:


> 12 months now no problem
> Bought 2 pair but still on the first set




And these are definitely better than any of the 12AU7 tubes? Are you using the 6350 Black plates?


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## groovyd

cardiiiii said:


> How's everyone going with the Sylvania 6350? Does it have any detriment to the WA7tp?


 

 Those are the taller tubes requiring adapter?  Mine at work have totally f'd up the sound and I am back to the mullards luckily it didn't seem to cause damage.


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## Cardiiiii

groovyd said:


> Those are the taller tubes requiring adapter?  Mine at work have totally f'd up the sound and I am back to the mullards luckily it didn't seem to cause damage.




Right, thanks for that. Safer to stay with the 12AU7s then.


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## groovyd

cardiiiii said:


> Right, thanks for that. Safer to stay with the 12AU7s then.


 

 I would say yes... get the upscale audio mullards and don't look back


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## HiFiGuy528

The NOS Mullard CV4003 are very good. We have a few tested and matched pair available. 
  


groovyd said:


> yes... agree it should be a proper switch or better yet just turn on when the WA7 volume knob is turned above 0.


 
  
 It's complicated... We rather have a smooth, solid feeling and channel accurate volume control than one that does everything. Jack of all trades, master of none would apply here if we tried to do all-in-one knob/button.


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## Cardiiiii

hifiguy528 said:


> The NOS Mullard CV4003 are very good. We have a few tested and matched pair available.
> 
> 
> It's complicated... We rather have a smooth, solid feeling and channel accurate volume control than one that does everything. Jack of all trades, master of none would apply here if we tried to do all-in-one knob/button.




I think he's referring to the knob on the tube supply. Also, how much are the mullards going for? As for the connection on the umbilical chord, is it possible to get one made or is it some proprietary technology?


----------



## groovyd

hifiguy528 said:


> The NOS Mullard CV4003 are very good. We have a few tested and matched pair available.
> 
> 
> It's complicated... We rather have a smooth, solid feeling and channel accurate volume control than one that does everything. Jack of all trades, master of none would apply here if we tried to do all-in-one knob/button.


 

 it's certainly possible to design it to where it doesn't compromise anything.  perhaps even using an optical relay that signals the power supply to turn on so as not to interfere with the electrical signals of the pot. a creative solution would not only cost less to manufacture without the machining of the p.s. knob or mechanics but look and feel a lot more impressive. provide a magical 'it just works' sorta experience.


----------



## CongeeBear

Hi all,
  
 Selling the short DC cord (1 ft/30 cm) that connects the two units -- shoot me a PM if interested!


----------



## Cardiiiii

congeebear said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Selling the short DC cord (1 ft/30 cm) that connects the two units -- shoot me a PM if interested!




You upgrading?


----------



## CongeeBear

I





cardiiiii said:


> You upgrading?




Downgrading, lol


----------



## Cardiiiii

Upgraded the tube supply from stock to Tung Sols and wow, what an upgrade for AUD$40!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

cardiiiii said:


> Upgraded the tube supply from stock to Tung Sols and wow, what an upgrade for AUD$40!


 
  
 Which Tung Sol? pic or link?


----------



## Cardiiiii

hifiguy528 said:


> Which Tung Sol? pic or link?


 
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270912343997?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Is it normal to have some disturbance in the right channel on start up for a few seconds, didn't have this on the stock tubes.


----------



## groovyd

tubes all warm up in a different way.  as long as it goes away it should be fine.


----------



## Cardiiiii

groovyd said:


> tubes all warm up in a different way.  as long as it goes away it should be fine.




Cool! Thanks!


----------



## AD67

Thinking of purchasing the Wa7s to pair with my shure 846s...In your opinions is the Electro Harmonix upgrade worth it it?


----------



## kyle1010

ad67 said:


> Thinking of purchasing the Wa7s to pair with my shure 846s...In your opinions is the Electro Harmonix upgrade worth it it?




If you like flatter more accurate sound get the gold pins. I think they're a little boring sounding for my tastes. But I'm an electronic music guy. That should be a good combo with SE846 though. I recently sold my 846s to get Campfire Vega but had I kept them I'm kinda mad now that I didn't try them on the WA7tp(which is temporarily sitting boxed up in my closet). WA7 should smooth out some of the peaky highs of the 846, and their detail retrieval ability should allow you to hear why tubes are so special. Enjoy!


----------



## AD67

You might have just saved me the extra $100 for the gold pins as I am also into electronic music and a more interested in musicality than accuracy...what filters where u using for the 846s...I recently just got them and I'm still on the default blue....


----------



## kebcy

Hey folks!

Any test, reviews, how does the Fireflies 2nd gen with the Vacuum upgrade sounds with a Beyerdynamic Amiron headset?

I am planning to buy one, but I already have a BursonAudio Play! but this little masterpiece already caught my attention 

Cheers,
kebcy


----------



## Luke-

If you could pick one tube to upgrade from the stock tubes in the WA7 and WA7tp what would you recommend ?

I don't want to spend a fortune trying different ones just want a good all-rounder if there is one.

Thanks in advance


----------



## groovyd

mullards


----------



## Tubewin

Anyone compare this with the wa7 gen 3?


----------

