# Little Dot MK VI / Little Dot MK VIII SE Owners Unite



## reiserFS

Finally getting down to making a thread about these truly brilliant amplifiers. For me, the VI is an amazing piece of amplifier, driving my T1's with ease and transforming them into a beast that conquers everything. Currently rolling with RCA 6AS7G grey plates in the back and Tung-Sol VT-229 in the front, great combo so far. I also managed to catch a quad of RCA 6AS7G black plates, as there have been rumors that these sound better. Shuguang Treasure 6SN7 replacements are also on their way to me.
   
  Hoping to see some tube rolling going  and reading your impressions on this, in my opinion, underrated amplifier.


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## DjAmTraX

Pictures please.  I've been thinking of getting the MKVIII SE.  Haven't pulled the trigger yet.


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## reiserFS

Here are some pictures of my VI (note that this is not the + version, previous owner replaced loud fans with silent ones). Definitely replace the stock russian driver tubes as soon as possible, they sound utterly harsh and cold with minimal detail to me.


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## nkoulban

I am interested in a VIII SE.  I currently have a balanced headroom with a HD650 and would like to try tubes.  Looks like this amp is not getting a lot of love around here... seems like a potentially fantastic amp esp when you do a bit of tube rolling.  Love to hear more impressions.


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## musico

Hi, I am about to get the Little Dot Mk VI, as I am getting my headphones modded. I was wondering about buying tubes, in this case 4 power and 2 driver.
   
  Does this mean that I need to get a matched quad for the power ones, or can I get 2 matched pairs to make up the quad? I have not purchased tubes before from the net and am wondering how to go about this.
   
  Thanks!


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## reiserFS

You can buy two matched pairs, one for the left and one for the right channel. A really great upgrade would be the RCA 6AS7G grey or black plates.

  
  Quote: 





musico said:


> Hi, I am about to get the Little Dot Mk VI, as I am getting my headphones modded. I was wondering about buying tubes, in this case 4 power and 2 driver.
> 
> Does this mean that I need to get a matched quad for the power ones, or can I get 2 matched pairs to make up the quad? I have not purchased tubes before from the net and am wondering how to go about this.
> 
> Thanks!


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## nkoulban

I was looking at the little Dot website and it looks like the VIII SE has no fan and 2w per channel, so it's suitable for dynamic cans only.  The VI+ has 5w per channel and has fans, but could be used with Orthodynamics like the LCD2 as well.  Can anyone confirm if my understanding is correct.


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## reiserFS

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, your understanding is absolutely correct as the VI+  drives orthodynamics such as the LCD-2 flawlessly due to it's immense output power.

  
  Quote: 





nkoulban said:


> I was looking at the little Dot website and it looks like the VIII SE has no fan and 2w per channel, so it's suitable for dynamic cans only.  The VI+ has 5w per channel and has fans, but could be used with Orthodynamics like the LCD2 as well.  Can anyone confirm if my understanding is correct.


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## Maxvla

Just noticed this thread. I've owned my MKVI since January 2008. I'm shocked it's not more popular than it is. It's an absolute steal.
   
  I'm not much a tube roller, but I'm curious what driver tubes you would recommend, Reiser, that would, in your opinion, improve the sound, but not be too expensive. When I replaced the Raytheon 6080 power tubes (1 was defective from the start) with some generic West Germany 6AS7G tubes, there was virtually no difference. Another reason I've not done much tube rolling is that I don't know when I'll move on to another amp (speaker amp for HE-6) or a different headphone solution (IEMs/Stats) and have this amp with left over tubes I probably won't be able to sell easily.
   
  As for the ortho comment, I'm currently running the Hifiman HE-6 (listening right now!) phones on my MKVI with the gain set to high. The only other phone that would require this level of power is the K1000. It drives both the K1000 and HE-6 with ease (I've listened to both on this amp). You can listen to both on low gain setting, but I think it sounds better (like it's being driven easier) on high gain.


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## Roscoeiii

As I posted on the HE-6 thread, I was very excited to try the HE-6s with my Little Dot VI. But I had it on the low gain setting. Doh! I will hopefully be able to track down a pair to give them a go on the high gain setting. So for those of you who were at the ChiUnifi meet and heard my lament that the VI couldn't adequately power the HE-6s, my apologies. The amp was not on the best setting to pair with the HE-6s. 
   
  Look forward to hearing how the Treasures sound in the VI. Been thinking about them or the Create/Synergy 6SN7 tubes. 
   
  But am I happy with my VI. Oh yes. lovely sound with the HE-5LEs on low gain. Maybe I will give these a go on high gain setting, since HE-5LE owners are also reporting improvements on speaker amps for the HE-5LE as well as the HE-6s.


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## Maxvla

The MKVI can easily power the HE-6 on low gain. The first 10 or so hours I listened to my HE-6 was on low gain. The only problem is on some rare tracks/albums the volume needs to be raised a good bit (around 2 o'clock) and I felt at these higher volumes that the sound wasn't as dynamic as it could be. I switched it to high gain and those albums do sound much better down around 11 o'clock. Normal albums on high gain are listened to at about 10-10:30 with the HE-6.


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## reiserFS

You're still using the chinese driver tubes LD supplied, right? That's probably why you didn't notice a change when you rolled in the 6AS7G. A really nice tube would be the Tung-Sol VT-229 with round plates, which will literally kill the chinese stock tubes. Here are some comments from the previous seller about the VT-229: _"These are vintage NOS military tubes from the 1940's. Very good sounding tubes. Suggest you use them in preference to the Chinese junk (ie. the driver tubes which were supplied with the LD - also included)."_ I will probably get the Treasure's tomorrow, will comment about them a bit then.
   
  Generally speaking, you have a huge selection for the driver tubes, as it takes 6SN7, 6SL7 and with adapters even more types. I recommend you to read through the reference 6SN7 thread, which has a lot of information and comments about the sound of each NOS tube and can get you started. Found here.
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Just noticed this thread. I've owned my MKVI since January 2008. I'm shocked it's not more popular than it is. It's an absolute steal.
> 
> I'm not much a tube roller, but I'm curious what driver tubes you would recommend, Reiser, that would, in your opinion, improve the sound, but not be too expensive. When I replaced the Raytheon 6080 power tubes (1 was defective from the start) with some generic West Germany 6AS7G tubes, there was virtually no difference. Another reason I've not done much tube rolling is that I don't know when I'll move on to another amp (speaker amp for HE-6) or a different headphone solution (IEMs/Stats) and have this amp with left over tubes I probably won't be able to sell easily.
> 
> As for the ortho comment, I'm currently running the Hifiman HE-6 (listening right now!) phones on my MKVI with the gain set to high. The only other phone that would require this level of power is the K1000. It drives both the K1000 and HE-6 with ease (I've listened to both on this amp). You can listen to both on low gain setting, but I think it sounds better (like it's being driven easier) on high gain.


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## Maxvla

Nice thread. Will take a while to absorb all of that. I'm going to try the 'impedance box' Fang is going to have out for the HE-6 to plug into high watt speaker amps (>70wpc) to see if my vintage pioneer receiver will do the job so I can sell my MKVI. If it doesn't I'll return it and try the tube route. Should have the box in a month or so. In the mean time I'll see if there are any cheap but worthwhile tubes I can try for little risk.


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## Roscoeiii

Maxvla, 
   
  Yes, I found that I was had the VI at around 2 o'clock, but compared to the HE-5LEs at the low gain setting, the sound really suffered due not to insufficient volume, but what I'd call heft and slam. I read this from a review today, and found my self nodding in agreement based on my low-gain VI experience with the HE-6s: "this is probably the quality that benefits most from upscale gain—bass displacement, impact, extension and mass." This is what I am hoping the high gain setting on the VI will provide. Without it, I preferred the HE-5LEs on the VI, despite preferring the HE-6 on the EF-5 and the prototype new balanced portable (!) amp from Ray Samuels. 
   
  Look forward to hearing your experience with a speaker amp on the HE-6s. 
   
  BUT for anyone interested in the VI, let me be VERY CLEAR that the HE-6 is a very current hungry and difficult to drive headphone. I imagine that the low gain setting would be great and would produce great results with almost any headphones. Balanced Denon 7000s for example sounded fantastic on this amp yesterday.


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## Maxvla

Yes, technically this amp is not an ideal match for low impedance, high current phones, as it's designed to run 300ohm primarily and also 120ohm on high gain (K1000). It still gets the job done though due to the sheer power it produces. A purpose built amp for the HE-6 at the same price as the MKVI will likely beat it due to this. I do hope the speaker amp works better, because my plan for buying these HE-6 was to recoup money by selling the MKVI and using the speaker amp for both my headphones and my speakers. It's a very nice mint condition 1983 Pioneer 125wpc that I happened to get for free ($900 in 1983).


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## Maxvla

Reiser, do you have a good source for tubes? I looked up the VT-229 you mentioned on eBay.. the cheapest pair on there is $190...... I'll keep looking at alternatives I suppose.


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## musico

Thank you for the great link to that tube comparison thread...
   
  I read in Glitche's posting on another thread that he liked the RCA black plate 6AS7G’s (power) and Raytheon VT-231 (driver) combination with the Mk VI.
   
  I was wondering about how tubes can be substituted. Eg instead of the Raytheon VT 231 can I use the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT 'Round Plate' instead?
   
  I am basing on the fact that they were both on the 6SN7 thread and so are similar? Is this true that you can substitute them as they are similar?

 Thanks!


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## reiserFS

Shuguang  6SN7 don't seem to work, only hum and they don't entirely fit into the socket due to their base size. I dremel'd the golden rings to make room so that they fit, didn't fix the problem though. Some wasted money there..


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## che15

Hello Guys , I would like to join the club, even after having to send my brand new MKVI back to China for repairs. It is an amazing amp and it is worth the hassle and wait. Will post again when I get it back.


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## Maxvla

What happened???


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## che15

The package was perfect as the amp , so I do not think it was the shipping , but When I powered it the meters were on 40 volt instead of 60 and there was no sound coming out of the XLR or Single ended outputs. Tried new tubes, power cords , 3 CD players, checked the fuse, gain switches and nothing happened , so Davis said to ship it back for repair.


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## Maxvla

That's pretty strange. The only time I've seen my meters not at 60 was when I first installed the new power tubes. It was slightly low until it automatically biased up to 60.


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## musico

If someone is selling a set of tubes, that are matched and test strong, but they did not test the "lp" is this OK? I don't even know what the lp is... Thanks


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## reiserFS

When I installed new power tubes one pair was at around 90, I left it playing for about 3 hours and it automatically biased down to 60 on both pairs. Really unfortunate that you need to send yours back to China, but it's well worth the wait.

  
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> AThat's pretty strange. The only time I've seen my meters not at 60 was when I first installed the new power tubes. It was slightly low until it automatically biased up to 60.


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## reiserFS

I just received my dampers for the 6AS7G power tubes and the microphonics are now entirely gone. The lower end also tightened up, really recommending some dampers for these since they tend to be a bit microphonic.


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## nkoulban

Thank for your advice on the differences between the VI+ and VIII SE and on tube rolling advice.  I'm keen to buy a VI+ after having a LD II++.  The LD II++ after I tubed rolled some Mullards in, it was excellent, however I sold it because it just did not have the outright power to drive my HD650s they way I wanted them and that it was not balanced.  As far as I am concerned this balanced amp is a bargain.


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## reiserFS

As the LD VI can drive the K1000s and Ortho's just fine, you'll have more than enough power for your HD650s.
  
  Quote: 





nkoulban said:


> Thank for your advice on the differences between the VI+ and VIII SE and on tube rolling advice.  I'm keen to buy a VI+ after having a LD II++.  The LD II++ after I tubed rolled some Mullards in, it was excellent, however I sold it because it just did not have the outright power to drive my HD650s they way I wanted them and that it was not balanced.  As far as I am concerned this balanced amp is a bargain.


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## che15

reiserfs said:


> I just received my dampers for the 6AS7G power tubes and the microphonics are now entirely gone. The lower end also tightened up, really recommending some dampers for these since they tend to be a bit microphonic.






Which Dampeners did you get, would you mind sending me the link.

Thanks


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## reiserFS

I got my dampers from Sandy, really great quality. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370451156794&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_5087wt_1139
  Quote: 





che15 said:


> A
> 
> 
> 
> Which Dampeners did you get, would you mind sending me the link.Thanks


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## reiserFS

Just got in a matched quad of RCA 6AS7G black plates and to my luck they're bad, huming like crazy even after deoxiting the pins. My grey plates are working and are dead silent. On the bright side, I've manged to score a quad of Tung-Sol 5998 which are identical to the overpriced WE421A.


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## zvovchik

I have a mk vi+ and im experiencing which i think is an issue. Im having slight buzz in the left and right channel right after the right side warms up and "clicks on"
  im guessing when the transformer turns on. this is happening when i use my sony7506 headphones(63ohms) SE in the back and when i use balanced preamp outs. when nothing is plugged in to the Little Dot except headphones or my power amp the buzzing is there, when i play hard music its not bothersome but it drives me nuts when im listening to classical. the symptoms are there no matter where the volume pot is at. Im using dacmagic ballanced as source and its not the dacmagic, my little dot mk ii is dead silent. I cant hear it when im using my hd600(300ohms) connected through 4pin xlr and that is fine, but i like to use it as a preamp and the buzzing is still there. I tried different tubes, i have changed the gain settings, and i have sent it back to china and extensively explained this and it shipped back just like it left. has anyone tried the preamp outs? Or has anyone tried the SE OUT with similar impedance headphones? Any help would be really appreciated.
   
  I tubes that i have left in my unit are Power: RCA JAN 6as7g Driver: Tung-Sol JAN CTL-6su7gty and this combination is my favorite.


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## reiserFS

Sounds like a grounding issue to me?


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## zvovchik

I have looked inside my little dot, everything looks ok,(to me) i have tried all the plugs in my house, tried using a power cord without ground, tried power conditioner. i just had an idea, im going to hook up my 63ohm 7506 headphones to the 4 pin xlr in the front. seems i only get buzzing from the back. I guess i really want to know if anyone tried using the pre-amp-out to a power transformer or some headphones that are close in impedance at the SE jack in the back.
  tha hd600 are doing great with 4pinxlr, cant hear any buzzing, and i have a akg 240m 600ohms recabled ballanced to 4pinxlr and they sound great, no bzz.
   
  I like this amp, i want it to be buzz free .atleast at the pre outs.  It would be awesome if someone can test for this and let us know, maybe its just my amp acting up or it doesnt like lower impedance headphones.
   
  BUT I WANT TO USE THE PRE OUTS and they buzz. its there when the right side warms up and clicks active then the bzz is audible.  using the pre-amp-out i have hooked up my peavey cs 400x which is 300w x2 to my magnepan smga and i hear a buzzing. also buzzing seems more pronounced when using my passive event 20/20. and yes i have hooked up a different power amp(yamahap2250) to my DOT and still the buzz.
   
  IF it is grounding issue, what do i look for?
   
  could i be the wires that connet to pre-out are prone to electromagnetic field emmitted by transformers? OR SOME OTHER "field".
   
  needless to say i am frustrated andalmost ready to give up on this amp....thats too bad...IT SOUNDS SO NEUTRAL AND MUSICAL...but not during quiet passages.
   
  thoughts?


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## Audiogalore

Quote: 





zvovchik said:


> I have looked inside my little dot, everything looks ok,(to me) i have tried all the plugs in my house, tried using a power cord without ground, tried power conditioner. i just had an idea, im going to hook up my 63ohm 7506 headphones to the 4 pin xlr in the front. seems i only get buzzing from the back. I guess i really want to know if anyone tried using the pre-amp-out to a power transformer or some headphones that are close in impedance at the SE jack in the back.
> tha hd600 are doing great with 4pinxlr, cant hear any buzzing, and i have a akg 240m 600ohms recabled ballanced to 4pinxlr and they sound great, no bzz.
> 
> I like this amp, i want it to be buzz free .atleast at the pre outs.  It would be awesome if someone can test for this and let us know, maybe its just my amp acting up or it doesnt like lower impedance headphones.
> ...


 

 I have had the same issue and this is David's respond from Little Dot!
   
_[size=x-small]Hi David:[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Please advise on the reason why I am getting a hum from my speakers on both channels when I drive the Little Dot as a pre-amp using the left/right balanced pre-outs on the back of the MK6. The hum is a low noise hum heard with volume or no volume and does not change db level. The headphone phone out is clean and does not have this problem.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Please advise and thank you for your support on issue.[/size]_
    
_[size=x-small]Best regards,[/size]_
   
  Hello Harold,

 Sounds like a grounding issue.  The Little Dot MK VI does not connect ground to the chassis through the XLR connection.  If your power amp does, you may experience the issue.  If such is the case, you should use the other output.

 Best Regards,
 David
   
_[size=x-small]Hi David:[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]I appreciate your quick respond, as mentioned you believe this might be a grounding issue. Being that the little floats ground in the XLR configuration then the ground is being fed back to the pre-amp via power amp that is grounded?[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]I have two other pre-amps that I use and they are XLR out and do experience the hum problem.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Another note of interest. Is there any improvement other than the SE connection on the new MK6+ vs. older version like the present MK6 I have and that I should be aware of. [/size]_
    
_[size=x-small]Best regards,[/size]_
   
  Hello Harold,

 Indeed - another thing you may also want to try a ground lift cable or a ground lift switch box in the XLR interconnects, like used in pro audio applications for grounding conflicts between equipment.  Regarding the Little Dot MK VI+, the only difference is the SE output. 

 Best Regards,
 David
   
_[size=x-small]Hi David:[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]When you say ground lift, is that on the pre-amp or the power amp.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Best regards,[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Hi David:[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]I was hoping to have heard back from you. I also need to make sure I understand that the design as previously mentioned is a *"dual mono design"* therefore I also understand if I may say so that the topology of the design is *"fully balanced*." left/right and in no way differential or shared.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Please advise and thank you for your continuous support.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Best regards,[/size]_
   
  Hello Harold,
   
  You'll need to experiment yourself where to lift ground.  By definition dual mono is fully balanced.
   
  Best Regards,
  David
  
_[size=x-small]Hi David:[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]I understand your position and it is my risk to experiment. I understand the definition that dual mono should be truly balanced.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]Unfortunately there are many companies that state there design is balanced but do share common between paths in the left and right channels.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]The reason to my curiosity is the hum issue that I recently been exposed and hearing through both channels same common problem.[/size]_
    
_[size=x-small]Best regards,[/size]_
   
  Hello Harold,

 It's not really an issue of risk, but rather since grounding issues are highly variable due to the various components in a system and now they are connected.   Thus experimenting on where to lift ground is required to resolve it. 

 Best Regards,
 David


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## zvovchik

Ok that is getting closer to diagnose, have you experimented with "lifting ground" and/or have you resolved this?  im thinking lift ground is not to connect the ground in the xlr interconnects to chasis or lift ground inside the amp? sorry i may need a bit more clarification.
  Thanks to taking the time to answear, I really like how this amp sounds and hoping to fix this. it is also good to know that our amps are created equal.


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## Audiogalore

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Sounds like a grounding issue to me?


 


  I would definitely 1st experimenting to lift the ground on your amp to assure and eliminating any possible ground loop. This can be done by putting a cheater plug on your amp AC 3-pin cord that can be had from Home Depot for less than a buck.


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## reiserFS

Huh, I thought they also replaced they loud fans that were in the early production MKVI? Seems like not worth a mention from David's point of view, I guess.


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## rattesp

I'm really interested in this amp to drive my T1. I might pull the trigger soon ! must resist !!!!!!!


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## Audiogalore

T1 is a real marriage to this amp!


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## reiserFS

I second this, although I'm not driving them with the stock tubes. VT-229 Tung-Sol + RCA 6AS7G are a match made in heaven. Having some Tung-Sol 5998 and round plate Tung-Sol 6F8Gs on the way to see if it can get even better. I still can't believe how many types of tubes one can roll in the MK VI. The 6F8G is electrically the same as the 6SN7 and the round plate pairs are much cheaper. You need a 6F8G to 6SN7 adapter though.
  
  Quote: 





audiogalore said:


> T1 is a real marriage to this amp!


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## elwappo99

Definitely interested in this amp, but I'm finding very little in terms of user comments. I'm also debating between the MKVI+ and the MKVIII SE. I'm assuming the SE output on the back of the MKVI+ acts as a line-out, anyone confirm this?Aside from the physical outputs, is there any differences in these amps in terms of sound sig?


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## Maxvla

The SE output is the same as any 1/4 jack, not a line out. 

The main difference in the 6 and 8 is the power and fans. The 6 is by far more powerful and has fans to keep it from getting too hot. The 8 apparently is more refined, but its hard to imagine after hearing the 6. 

The reason there isn't much buzz about these amps is this: Little Dot was flavor of the year for a few years about 4-5 years ago and like all FOTM their time in the light passed. The 5, 6, 7, and 8 were made about 2 years ago and newer, and newer enough to be after the wild popularity passed. Their amps are just as good as they've ever made but everyone's attention is on the latest greatest. 

One thing about the 6 and 8 is that you are buying into a system that is both a blessing and a curse. The 6 (and presumably the 8) is a very average SE amplifier so don't expect anything special that way, but the balanced sound is excellent. This means your source must be balanced which means no turntables no tape decks or other purely analog sources. This also means no SACD unless you have a higher end player with balanced output. Additionally it also means all of your headphones have to be recabled or at least reterminated. The reward is great sound but there isn't much flexibility with this design. 

On another note, I'm leaving the club here by selling my 6 to another head-fier since the 6 doesn't work with IEMs. Still a great amp but it doesn't suit my needs any longer.


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## elwappo99

I see. Interesting. So the 8 is just overall more refined. Very interesting recap on little dot. I think David should send out more units to be reviewed, but that's just personal opinion. I've hat a mki+,l mkiii, mkv, and dac_I, and definitely enjoyed them.  I've got a balanced dac and SS, but my tube amp is SE, so i've been looking to jump into a balanced tube amp, and this seems like it could fit the bill.  Posted in the LCD-2 amp thread, hoping to see if anyone had used to two together.


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## reiserFS

Well here we go, my power button just broke, it's literally stuck in the on position. Now I have to pull the power cord every time I want to turn it off. Thank god it's stuck in the on position or else I'd be without music. Send David a mail to see if he can manage to send me a replacement button.
   
  Anyone else had a dead button?


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## Maxvla

Yes, it was an easy swap. Just take a picture of it and he'll send you a new one. Just have to solder 4 (I think?) wires. It was the spring that broke inside in my case, likely the same with yours.

Sold my MKVI a few days ago. Sad panda here, but excited about my new direction also.


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## rattesp

I received my MKVI+. Using it with RCA 6AS7G and RCA 5691 (red base). After only 10 hours I'm REALLY impressed !! By the far the best amp I have heard with the T1 (vs Phoenix , MAD Ear+HD, Goldpoint, Yamamoto HA-02, Burson, etc). It's the first time I can fully appreciate the T1 potential. 
   
  Only problem is the buzz coming from one of the transfo ... 
   
  I can't wait to hear how it will improve in the next 50-100 hours !


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## reiserFS

Interesting, didn't try the red base RCAs yet, I have some Full Music 6SN7 (Sophia Electric) on the way though. And yeah, this amp really makes the T1 shine.
  Quote: 





rattesp said:


> I received my MKVI+. Using it with RCA 6AS7G and RCA 5691 (red base). After only 10 hours I'm REALLY impressed !! By the far the best amp I have heard with the T1 (vs Phoenix , MAD Ear+HD, Goldpoint, Yamamoto HA-02, Burson, etc). It's the first time I can fully appreciate the T1 potential.
> 
> Only problem is the buzz coming from one of the transfo ...
> 
> I can't wait to hear how it will improve in the next 50-100 hours !


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## elwappo99

Seems like no one is selling these used, but I wanna join the fun


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## icefsh

Just ordered MK VI+ last week. How long it took to get your amp after order?


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## rattesp

It took three weeks to build and 6 days to be delivered (DHL Canada was closed for 2 days after Christmas so it would have taken 4 days I guess).


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## elwappo99

Quote: 





rattesp said:


> It took three weeks to build and 6 days to be delivered (DHL Canada was closed for 2 days after Christmas so it would have taken 4 days I guess).


 


  That's really fast!  I may just have to bit the bullet and buy this guy brand new. Was hoping to pick one up used


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## rattesp

As much as I like the amp, I might send it back for a refund. Too much problems for a brand new amp. First, the loud buzzing sound coming from the transfo, then the loud "rattling" noise coming from the fan (it's not a normal "fan sound"), now the auto-bias problem ... I've tried 3 different quads of power tubes, 3 pairs of driver tubes, it doesn't change anything : the right DC meter is always over 60 (between 65 and 70). I asked David if there is a way to manually adjust the bias and he said no. He didn't offer any explanation about the problem. I'm not really satisfied with the way David handles the problems. When I send an email, i ask 3-4 questions and he only answers to 1 or 2 questions !?!?! I have to ask a question twice before he replies. 
   
  It's a great sounding amp but I think a got a lemon ???


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## reiserFS

You can replace the fans with silent ones, the previous owner of my amp did this for me. As for the tranformer, my right one buzzes a bit but it's hardly noticeable and it got better once I installed a AC filter. It's not wrong if one VU meter is off by around -5/+5 points from the initial value (6AS7G run on 60mA, 5998 on 40mA). My left meter exactly says 60mA while the right one is on 63mA. You won't hear the difference anyway and it also greatly depends on how well the quad is matched. Auto biasing seems fine here.
   
  Do you hear the buzzing from your cans or from the outside? Only hearing it if I have my ears near it.
  
  Quote: 





rattesp said:


> As much as I like the amp, I might send it back for a refund. Too much problems for a brand new amp. First, the loud buzzing sound coming from the transfo, then the loud "rattling" noise coming from the fan (it's not a normal "fan sound"), now the auto-bias problem ... I've tried 3 different quads of power tubes, 3 pairs of driver tubes, it doesn't change anything : the right DC meter is always over 60 (between 65 and 70). I asked David if there is a way to manually adjust the bias and he said no. He didn't offer any explanation about the problem. I'm not really satisfied with the way David handles the problems. When I send an email, i ask 3-4 questions and he only answers to 1 or 2 questions !?!?! I have to ask a question twice before he replies.
> 
> It's a great sounding amp but I think a got a lemon ???


----------



## rattesp

When I listen at low volume, I can hear the buzz from outside. The problem is that I use my headphones exclusively in bed and my girlfriend doesn't like to hear this loud buzz !!! lol !!
   
  I've ordered new fans, hope it will help. David said it's ok to use it without fan if room temperature is below 27 C but even at 21C the amp gets REALLY hot.
   
  As for the bias, thanks for the info. Hope it's normal and everything is ok. The meter is a mixed blessing since most auto-biased amp don't have them so you never know if the bias is slighlty wrong !!
   
  I've ordered this power supply filter outlet from Audio-GD (http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/amp/Power%20filter/PowerEN.htm ). I hope the DC filter output will help.
   
  Thanks for your help ! You should work for Little Dot, you're more helpful than David


----------



## reiserFS

You're most welcome. Like you said, most auto-biasing amps don't have a VU meter so you don't know whether the biasing is right or not. Since one of my meters is also off by a bit, I wouldn't worry about it. Some users reported that new quads were right off at 80mA and later biased themselves to 60mA. It's another thing if there's a huge difference between DC mA  like 30mA or more though.
   
  I really wouldn't recommend to use the amp without fans as it gets quite hot and and decreases lifetime on the resistors and caps, even below 27 Celsius. As for the buzzing, I strongly believe that this is some sort of grounding issue, although I haven't heard other users complain about it before.
   
  Could you perhaps do a recording of the buzzing?
  
  Quote: 





rattesp said:


> When I listen at low volume, I can hear the buzz from outside. The problem is that I use my headphones exclusively in bed and my girlfriend doesn't like to hear this loud buzz !!! lol !!
> 
> I've ordered new fans, hope it will help. David said it's ok to use it without fan if room temperature is below 27 C but even at 21C the amp gets REALLY hot.
> 
> ...


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Could you perhaps do a recording of the buzzing?


 
  ohhh yes, this please!


----------



## rattesp

I'll try to find something to record the buzz !
   
  Concerning the right channel DC meter, I noticed that when the amp is off, it stays at 5-10 while the left one goes down all the way to 0. That probably explains why when the amp is on, the right meter is always at 65-70 !


----------



## reiserFS

Seems like the meter itself is at fault then and not the biasing.
  
  Quote: 





rattesp said:


> I'll try to find something to record the buzz !
> 
> Concerning the right channel DC meter, I noticed that when the amp is off, it stays at 5-10 while the left one goes down all the way to 0. That probably explains why when the amp is on, the right meter is always at 65-70 !


----------



## che15

Hello guys , I have the same Problem with the transformer hum and the fans. My MKVI is about 2 months old and it already been to china and back.
I also have a problem with my single ended out it has this crazy noise , like electronic interference.
The amp sounds amazing , that is why I got it. My friend Audiogalore has one of the older MKVI and we compared it to the wa22 , the balancing act and wa6 SE and it sounded much better than all of them. It is just an amazing sounding unit and I think it is worth the headaches.


----------



## musico

Hi everyone,
   
  Can't wait to use the amp, as am waiting for the DAC to arrive in a couple of days Is there a burn in time for the amp?
   
  On the instructions it talks about burning it in the amp, and I was wondering how long does it take?
   
  Also, I got some valves to replace the stock ones - I gather these don't need burning in time?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## reiserFS

Both valves and the amp itself will profit from burn in. I'm not sure how long it takes though.


----------



## icefsh

Just received my MK VI+ today. I do not hear any buzz from its transformer so far although the fans do make a little bit noise. But this noise is much lighter than that my computer fans make (actually they are all CoolerMaster fans). It does not make any trouble to me. 
  It drives my K1000 very loud, and I never heard my K1000 sounded so good. 
  Keep burn in it. I remember it needs 100h to completely break in.


----------



## bgan

hey icefsh, when you have tried, can you post impressions matching this amp with the LCD-2?


----------



## icefsh

The amp needs to be burned in now. Though the first impression of LCD-2 (SE) with this amp is good to me. I will post some feeling later.


----------



## reiserFS

I'm having a steal deal for my modded VI on sale for 470$ in the FS forum. Really, really need to have this sold soon.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> I'm having a steal deal for my modded VI on sale for 470$ in the FS forum. Really, really need to have this sold soon.


 


  I wish it were 120v


----------



## reiserFS

Not sure if one can even rewire it for 120v like Stax amps. A step-up transformer should do things well though.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I wish it were 120v


----------



## log0

I'm also interested in impressions with the LCD-2. After reading some of Skylab's reviews I was going to go for the Meier Concerto (a solid state amp) since it seemed to be a pretty good bang for the buck amplifier. Being new to head-fi, I'm depending a lot on the reviews and impressions of others.
   
  I've heard a few regular tube amplifiers like some of the McIntosh and love the way they drive loudspeakers, I figured I may like the sound better for headphones as well. What is the general consensus best "under $1000" tube amp for the LCD-2? I don't know much about Little Dot but they seem to be held in high regard and are fairly priced. I think some of the posts of defects on new amps if totally unacceptable and would keep me from buying them but I do wonder about the sound quality. I was considering the MK VI+ and the MK VIII SE but there is a lack of information about it's performance with the LCD-2 and some reports of defects...


----------



## elwappo99

Definitely agree with you.Reviews are few and far between for these amps matched with a LCD-2.  I'm pretty worried to see some of the issues with these amps. I owned a MKi+, MKiii, MKV, and DAC_I and had 0 issues at all with them.   In the end, this looks like my contender for a balanced tube amp with my lcd-2. I NEEEEED tubes for my acoustic music and strings. It's just not the same without.


----------



## icefsh

I am listening  my LCD-2 on MK VI+ right now
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I just sent back the SAA cables of LCD-2 and HD800 for connector modification. So I have to use stock cable on SE output now. The only problem is the weak buzz on background as some previous posts described. I can not hear it from K1000, but all other headphones have this trouble especially under high gain. This noise does not due to ground loop from power cable since I use cheater power cable. I hope it only happen in SE output. I will see that after I get my balanced headphone cables.
  Besides the noise, I have to say MK VI is an excellent amp for LCD-2. Compare to my Bruson HA-160, MK VI bring LCD-2 to another level without any doubt. More details,more smooth, more power, more air, more eveything, and yes, more noise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## log0

Thanks for posting your impressions. Have you tried running connecting the dac/amp to a battery pack to see if that eliminates noise? Is the noise something common with Little Dot tube amps?
  
  Quote: 





icefsh said:


> I am listening  my LCD-2 on MK VI+ right now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## icefsh

No, I don't have any battery based power. And I think it is still a ground problem. I opened the amp and try to find how the ground wire connect. But it looked too complex to trace. I must mention that the SE output of MK VI+ is just an adaptor of the balance output. It is drew from R+, L+ and L ground wire of balanced pre amp output. I don't know whether this noise comes from that L ground wire. 
  I don't think this noise problem is common in LD amp. MK VI+ is very special in LD product line. The boss of LD design and tune this amp with a K1000. It does work for K1000. SE output is just an appendix. If you don't have K1000, you'd better choice the flagship amp of LD, MK VIII. It is powerful enough for LCD-2 and HD800.


----------



## log0

Good luck solving your noise problem.
  As for me, I'm still trying to come up with a good value DAC/Amp combo for the LCD-2. My source will be completely from a Macbook Pro, probably USB or Optical out. I was thinking of going with the Little Dot DAC. Are there comparable DACs within the price range? As for the amp, I was considering the MK VIII SE but as I posted before there is a lack of info on this amp as it relates to the LCD-2. I've stayed steadfast to wanting the Meier Concerto (solid state) based on the recommendation of Skylab but would prefer some tubes. That being said, what other competitors are there when it comes to driving the LCD-2 with a ~$800 amp (solid or tube)?
  Quote: 





icefsh said:


> No, I don't have any battery based power. And I think it is still a ground problem. I opened the amp and try to find how the ground wire connect. But it looked too complex to trace. I must mention that the SE output of MK VI+ is just an adaptor of the balance output. It is drew from R+, L+ and L ground wire of balanced pre amp output. I don't know whether this noise comes from that L ground wire.
> I don't think this noise problem is common in LD amp. MK VI+ is very special in LD product line. The boss of LD design and tune this amp with a K1000. It does work for K1000. SE output is just an appendix. If you don't have K1000, you'd better choice the flagship amp of LD, MK VIII. It is powerful enough for LCD-2 and HD800.


----------



## elwappo99

I think the DAC_I is a really great balanced DAC, hard to beat. As for amps. I'd suggest looking at Audio-GD. I picked up a ROC for about 700, and it's simply beautiful with the LCD-2.
  
  Quote: 





log0 said:


> Good luck solving your noise problem.
> As for me, I'm still trying to come up with a good value DAC/Amp combo for the LCD-2. My source will be completely from a Macbook Pro, probably USB or Optical out. I was thinking of going with the Little Dot DAC. Are there comparable DACs within the price range? As for the amp, I was considering the MK VIII SE but as I posted before there is a lack of info on this amp as it relates to the LCD-2. I've stayed steadfast to wanting the Meier Concerto (solid state) based on the recommendation of Skylab but would prefer some tubes. That being said, what other competitors are there when it comes to driving the LCD-2 with a ~$800 amp (solid or tube)?


----------



## icefsh

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Good luck solving your noise problem.
> As for me, I'm still trying to come up with a good value DAC/Amp combo for the LCD-2. My source will be completely from a Macbook Pro, probably USB or Optical out. I was thinking of going with the Little Dot DAC. Are there comparable DACs within the price range? As for the amp, I was considering the MK VIII SE but as I posted before there is a lack of info on this amp as it relates to the LCD-2. I've stayed steadfast to wanting the Meier Concerto (solid state) based on the recommendation of Skylab but would prefer some tubes. That being said, what other competitors are there when it comes to driving the LCD-2 with a ~$800 amp (solid or tube)?


 


 Thanks. But it is really not a problem to me. Because I bought this amp just for my K1000. I can not hear any noise with K1000. It is a bonus to drive LCD-2 so good.
  I never try DAC from LD. I heard their new top DAC (DAC3) was coming soon.
  Actually price is influenced by lots of factors. Same price range does not mean similar level of performance. You will find it is difficult to compare products made in China V.S. which made in US according to their price. 


  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> As for amps. I'd suggest looking at Audio-GD. I picked up a ROC for about 700, and it's simply beautiful with the LCD-2.


 


 Agree, if you want to find competitors of LD at similar price, other Chinese brands are fair choices.


----------



## musico

Does anyone know the default gain settings of the Mk VI? I haven't opened it up to fiddle with it yet! Maybe I can just leave it as it is if its the right setting! Thanks!


----------



## icefsh

Mine was set on low gain upon receive. Not sure others.


----------



## TheWuss

low gain.


----------



## reiserFS

The default gain is set to low.


----------



## elwappo99

Anyone find any direct comparisons of the VI and VIII. All I've run across is David's comment the VIII is more "refined".


----------



## reiserFS

VIII is more suited for low impedance cans.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Anyone find any direct comparisons of the VI and VIII. All I've run across is David's comment the VIII is more "refined".


----------



## elwappo99

I think I'll end up just getting the VI+.  I'm slightly confused because the VIII costs a lot more, but the VI+ delivers a lot more power. It seems the pricing should be flipped, or the VIII has a more improved sound signature.


----------



## icefsh

In fact, VIII is designed for high impedance headphone. It does not work well with low impedance cans as VI.
  Actually,  Mr. Yang  made VI for K1000 and VIII for HD800. He ordered some custom components  from EU for VIII. Those components are really more expensive than regular model. So VIII has higher price but lower output power.
  BTW: An ultimate edition of VIII is coming soon after Chinese new year. It will contain some high-end class components and will also have much higher price (2-3 fold higher than SE I guess). I am just planning to get that one later this year.


----------



## elwappo99

Interesting, will be keeping watch to see this new one.


----------



## vrln

Quote: 





icefsh said:


> In fact, VIII is designed for high impedance headphone. It does not work well with low impedance cans as VI.
> Actually,  Mr. Yang  made VI for K1000 and VIII for HD800. He ordered some custom components  from EU for VIII. Those components are really more expensive than regular model. So VIII has higher price but lower output power.
> BTW: An ultimate edition of VIII is coming soon after Chinese new year. It will contain some high-end class components and will also have much higher price (2-3 fold higher than SE I guess). I am just planning to get that one later this year.


 


  Nice, thanks for sharing this! A new statement flagship model is really interesting.


----------



## elwappo99

Where did you see this information posted? I'd be interested to give it a read over.


----------



## icefsh

In chinese forum of LD. This amp won a competition of headphone amp last month in Hongkong. I just asked Mr. Yang when it will be available. He said LD will start to accept order after new year holiday. Price is varied, depends on what components you choose. Here are some pic of this amp on that competition.


----------



## elwappo99

Damn that amp looks beautiful....   Like the volume knob. Impressive they won a competition for it. I would like to be a judge in one of those.


----------



## alota

i had a little-dot mkVI(first version).
  terrificant relation quality/price.
  drive from 32 ohm to 600 ohm and the akg k-1000.
  i used with grado hf-2(very nice) and the hd-800(espectacular with jazz).
  at this price not better..
  between the VI and the VIII, buy back the VI
  aldo


----------



## Maxvla

In my experience the MKVI is not suitable for any headphones that have either lower than 120ohm impedance and/or with high sensitivity. It is really a Mack truck meant for the big heavy jobs. I used my RE262 IEMs which are somewhere around 100ohms, but somewhat high sensitivity and got substantial buzz. On my HD600 or HE-6 or any other less sensitive or higher ohm (such as HD800, K1000, HE-5LE, etc) I never experienced any buzz.

This amp is fairly limited it what it works for, but what it works for, it is absolutely brilliant. I love purpose built equipment that is amazing at it's desired goal.


----------



## alota

i used the little-dot with grado hf-2 and i loved the sound.
  for me, the amplifier drive 32 ohm without problem
  aldo


----------



## icefsh

I guess this buzz problem dues to the ground wire of SE and 3 pin XLR output. 4 pin XLR output may not be affected because it does not have ground pin. I am waiting for my 4 pin XLR headphone cable to verify that.


----------



## Maxvla

You could be right, I hadn't considered that my low ohm or high efficiency phones were using unbalanced.


----------



## musico

Hi icefish,
   
  The Mk VI I tried had the buzz in the single ended, but none in the balanced ended


----------



## elwappo99

icefsh, see anything new about the updated amplifier?


----------



## icefsh

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> icefsh, see anything new about the updated amplifier?


 


   Internal picture.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





icefsh said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Now you're just teasing....


----------



## reiserFS

Sweet jesus, that IS upgraded for sure.
  
  Quote: 





icefsh said:


> Internal picture.


----------



## icefsh

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Now you're just teasing....


 


 Sorry, I am too busy today to type more details about it. This picture came from a present user (maybe the only one) of this new upgraded MK VIII. All components are top of the top class, either quality or price. Even one of those capacitances in this picture costs hundreds dollars. And all the wires in this amp are silver, silver-glod alloy or Cardas wire. This user also spent thousands of dollar for tubes. I guess this amp would be beyond $10k although this user doesn't want to talk about price. Mr. Yang is still modifying it with some affordable components, and try to get similar performance as this one.  Have to wait longer.


----------



## SP Wild

.


----------



## icefsh

Quote: 





musico said:


> Hi icefish,
> 
> The Mk VI I tried had the buzz in the single ended, but none in the balanced ended


 


 I received my balanced headphone cables of HD800 and LCD-2 today. Yes, the 4-PIN XLR output is deadly quiet. I think we are close to address the problem. I found a weird black wire connect to ground pin of SE and balanced pre amp out. I don' t know where it comes from. I will ask Mr. Yang whether I can disconnect this wire. That could  remove this strange ground noise.


----------



## zvovchik

Quote: 





> I guess this buzz problem dues to the ground wire of SE and 3 pin XLR output. 4 pin XLR output may not be affected because it does not have ground pin. I am waiting for my 4 pin XLR headphone cable to verify that.


 
   
   
   
  Yes now that i think about it, the 4pin xlr is very noise free, but the SE and 3pin xlr that i use as pre-amp output, do have noise, I feel we are getting closer to figuring this out, for me It is important to use the pre-amp out.
   
   
  The  4Pin xlr has both the left and right channel signals as blue and brown and a Ground black cable that connects somewhere.


----------



## SP Wild

Snip the ground wire on the 3 pin XLR will eliminate the noise from the pre-outs.  The real problem is that you have a poorly connected ground somewhere creating a voltage difference.  The real solution is to find this poor earth.  Set your multimeter to millivolts and check every earth before and after the joint - there should show no voltages...when you get a voltage reading, this is your poor earth join.


----------



## alota

i tell my stupidity:
  when I was a little-dot amplifier was quiet  but sometimes appeared to be a hum
 This hum disappeared when I changed to place the tubes or change the type of tubes 
  i think that the problem comes to the tubes
  ldo


----------



## Pabro

I thought VIII is more suited for high impedance cans? VI makes some compromise to meet both high and low impedance, while VIII is more high-impedance oriented.

  
  Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> VIII is more suited for low impedance cans.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





pabro said:


> I thought VIII is more suited for high impedance cans? VI makes some compromise to meet both high and low impedance, while VIII is more high-impedance oriented.


 

 Nope, the VI and VI+ are suited for more power hungry headphones. The VIII is supposed to be more 'refined' but has less driving power but suited better for higher impedance phones.


----------



## Pabro

IMHO, VIII is better for the high impedance headphone, like HD600, 650, 800. VI+ has to make conpromise between both high and low impedance, while VIII is devoted to high impedance.
   
  VI+ has to output more power in order to drive the K1000, since it has a relatively low impedance of 120 Ohm. According to the Ohm's Law of P = I^2 R, the output becomes very large for high impedance headphone.
   
  It's not neccessarily true that the higher the output, the better the performance. Therefore, it is reasonable to claim that VIII works better on high impedance 'phone.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Nope, the VI and VI+ are suited for higher impedance and more power hungry headphones. The VIII is supposed to be more 'refined' but has less driving power.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





pabro said:


> IMHO, VIII is better for the high impedance headphone, like HD600, 650, 800. VI+ has to make conpromise between both high and low impedance, while VIII is devoted to high impedance.
> 
> VI+ has to output more power in order to drive the K1000, since it has a relatively low impedance of 120 Ohm. According to the Ohm's Law of P = I^2 R, the output becomes very large for high impedance headphone.
> 
> It's not neccessarily true that the higher the output, the better the performance. Therefore, it is reasonable to claim that VIII works better on high impedance 'phone.


 

 In that case, yes    Sorry, read over it quickly and thought the discussion was on power and impedance, not making a distinction between the two.


----------



## yanfeng

I have owned little dot mk8se for several months, and I am very satisfied with this beautiful amp. I've compared it with some Chinese DIY amps that uses top quality components and costs much more, and little dot stands very well. It is very balanced, refined, musical, and very revealing. If I have some minor complaints, it has not as much impact compared with Rudistor RP010B. 
  I plan to write more about it if I have some time. And I'd very much to know more about its comparison with some high end tube amps, such as Zana Deux, Emmeline B52, etc.


----------



## yanfeng

a thread in chinese headphone forum claiming little dot mk8 (with tube rolling of telsa e83cc  better than rudistor rpx33:
http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/thread-157096-1-1.html


----------



## voodoohao

Hi how does the MKVIII stock compares to the Darkvoice 337 with tung sol power tubes ? Is there a significant difference in sound quality? The MKVIII does look very good


----------



## elwappo99

Any news on the updates amps, or did those just die out?


----------



## elwappo99

Finally put an order for a mkvi+. Now the waiting begins......


----------



## elwappo99

I'm also very interested/worried to try to get better conclusions on the "hum" and "noise" that comes from mine. I'll make sure to give a full update after I get one. I'll test through all combinations and see where it occurs if it occurs as all. Also, I've got power conditioners, so I'll see if electricity has anything to do with it as well.


----------



## reiserFS

When I still had my VI, I fixed the transformer hum by adding a AC filter.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I'm also very interested/worried to try to get better conclusions on the "hum" and "noise" that comes from mine. I'll make sure to give a full update after I get one. I'll test through all combinations and see where it occurs if it occurs as all. Also, I've got power conditioners, so I'll see if electricity has anything to do with it as well.


----------



## elwappo99

reiserfs said:


> When I still had my VI, I fixed the transformer hum by adding a AC filter.





I just received my unit yesterday, and I'm thoroughly impressed to say the least. I'm certainly excited to see how this guy turns out after a little more intensive burn in. Out of the box sounds really good on its own. The sound signature sounds a little more like a solid state than a tube amp though. It's very clear, and detailed. Only major difference is the huge soundstage I'm getting.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Elwappo99, 
   
  Is that with the stock tubes? Let it break in. If my experience is any guide with these, you have some great listening times ahead of you. Enjoy, my friend. 
   
  And please let us know how it goes with your impressive collection of headphones. I only briefly tried the VI with the HE-6 at a meet-up, but I did recall thinking that it might benefit from the high gain setting. Sadly didn't have a chance to try it. Maybe I will find someone with HE-6s around Chicago, who'd care to explore the combo...


----------



## reiserFS

Glad to hear that you're enjoying it, you're in for a treat once the 6080 tubes burn in. This amp is one of the most unterrated amps around Head-Fi like I mentioned many times before.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> I have some Full Music 6SN7 (Sophia Electric) on the way though. And yeah, this amp really makes the T1 shine.


 

 You mean these, how did you like them?
   
  I have been wondering how they compare to the Shuggie Treasure 6SN7s.
   

   
  Has anyone tried both, I would love to hear about it


----------



## dyl1dyl

Ordering mine this weekend, before the agonizing 3-5 week wait  Looking forward to comparing this against my lyr and wa5 with the LCD 2.2s, K701s and Dt 880s. Btw, roughly how long did it take for you guys units to ship? Is the 3-5 week estimate accurate or a worse case scenario?


----------



## Categg

Well i'm a new owner as well. It only took 3 days to arrive in my country, but then again I live in south east asia so it's closer to China.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





dyl1dyl said:


> Ordering mine this weekend, before the agonizing 3-5 week wait  Looking forward to comparing this against my lyr and wa5 with the LCD 2.2s, K701s and Dt 880s. Btw, roughly how long did it take for you guys units to ship? Is the 3-5 week estimate accurate or a worse case scenario?


 


  Mine was close to 5 weeks (maybe a few days shy). Try to keep yourself occupied with other things. I'd like to hear a review against the Lyr and WA5. It would be interesting to see how they stack up.


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Mine was close to 5 weeks (maybe a few days shy). Try to keep yourself occupied with other things. I'd like to hear a review against the Lyr and WA5. It would be interesting to see how they stack up.


 

 Yup, will be posting impressions once I get the mk6+. Hopefully my order will come in at the shorter end of the possible delivery time


----------



## dyl1dyl

Hey guys, actually, after going through all the threads on the mk6/6+, I haven't really been able to discern a clear recommendation for a good set of affordable driver and power tubes to roll. Mind giving me some suggestions?


----------



## LiqTenExp

I love mine but only out of the balanced port.  Has anyone tried anything to clean up the hum on the 1/4" port?


----------



## elwappo99

Has anyone done any heavy modification to theirs? I haven't seen to much info on mods for this amp, but people have talked about it.
   
   
  Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> I love mine but only out of the balanced port.  Has anyone tried anything to clean up the hum on the 1/4" port?


 


  I don't think anyone has. I've definitely got it with mine too. Really makes the line out useless.


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Has anyone done any heavy modification to theirs? I haven't seen to much info on mods for this amp, but people have talked about it.
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone has. I've definitely got it with mine too. Really makes the line out useless.


 

 That kinda sucks, but it wont affect me too badly since I wont be using it single ended or as a pre-amp.


----------



## zenpunk

This amp is a  pure balanced design so the SE out is only there for convenience sake. I personally prefer a great sounding balanced amp with a mediocre SE output  than the opposite. Well! it would be nice to have both outputs sounding great but considering the  price of this amp, I don't mind compromising. I  believe the MKVI provide the best SQ/money if you can be bothered to re-terminate  your cans. I has been favorably compared to Woo W22 and EC Balancing Act, which cost a lot more.
  Anyway I am enjoying mine very much. I only wish the gain setting was accessible without opening the case as my favourite cans are DX1000 and HE-6.


----------



## elwappo99

Certainly the gain setting being more convenient would have been really nice. The SE output isn't really a convenience if you can't really use it. The hum is loud enough on more sensitive phones to become really irritating to the point I don't use it.


----------



## alota

the little-dot mk VI was born pure balanced(i had the first version).
  with se output is only half amplifier connected.
  performance is slightly lower compared to the balanced beta-22.
  in my opinon, one part very cheap in this amplifier is the alps pot and driver tubes
  for the rest, only first choice
  @zenpunk: the dx-1000 was my big love; modded is fantastic


----------



## zenpunk

The DX1000 remains my favourite headphone ( tried all the top tier phones) . Balanced and paired with the  MKVI+, the bass is incredibly taut and controlled, and the treble really open up.


----------



## LiqTenExp




----------



## LiqTenExp




----------



## LiqTenExp

Don't mind the dust.  Model of efficiency, draws about 130W at idle.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> The DX1000 remains my favourite headphone ( tried all the top tier phones) . Balanced and paired with the  MKVI+, the bass is incredibly taut and controlled, and the treble really open up.


 


  i agree with you


----------



## [OverDrive]

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> Don't mind the dust.  Model of efficiency, draws about 130W at idle.


 
   
  What valves do you climb on?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





[overdrive] said:


> What valves do you climb on?


 


  i know you.
  you are the man from etna land?
  if you are, i want one cipollina please
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  you see?many people are satisfied with the little-dot


----------



## LiqTenExp

Tubes are NOS Tungsol 5998 for the power tubes and NOS Tungsol VT229 for the drivers.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> Tubes are NOS Tungsol 5998 for the power tubes and NOS Tungsol VT229 for the drivers.


 


  I wish I could find a set of Tungsol 5998. Seems they never show up for sale.


----------



## LiqTenExp

http://www.vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html


----------



## [OverDrive]

Quote: 





liqtenexp said:


> Tubes are NOS Tungsol 5998 for the power tubes and NOS Tungsol VT229 for the drivers.


 


  Thanks for the informations.what kind of sound change do you hear with new power tubes?


----------



## [OverDrive]

Quote: 





alota said:


> i know you.
> you are the man from etna land?
> if you are, i want one cipollina please
> 
> ...


 


  So you caught me! I'm sorry no cipollina... if you want only cannoli with ricotta


----------



## alota

Quote: 





[overdrive] said:


> So you caught me! I'm sorry no cipollina... if you want only cannoli with ricotta


 

 i like it!!!
  deal!!!!


----------



## LiqTenExp

The 5998 add a lot of bottom end and just dynamics.  The VT229 just are and overall great sounding tube that pairs well with LCD-2


----------



## rattesp

A couple of days ago, I tried a quad of Sylvania 7236. The bass impact has really improved but the VU meter is at 40 instead of 60. It's been like this for more than 4 days. I've swapped back my 6AS7G and the meter shows 60. Put back the 7236, back at 40. Anybody had a similar experience with 7236 tubes ?


----------



## LiqTenExp

Depend on the tube type, my 5998 run around 30mA


----------



## mmlogic

Quote: 





rattesp said:


> A couple of days ago, I tried a quad of Sylvania 7236. The bass impact has really improved but the VU meter is at 40 instead of 60. It's been like this for more than 4 days. I've swapped back my 6AS7G and the meter shows 60. Put back the 7236, back at 40. Anybody had a similar experience with 7236 tubes ?


 


  Mine too, RCA 6AS7G at 60 Tungsol 7236 at 40.
  BTW, 7236 pair with Valvo 6SL7GT is the best combination on LD MK6 for me till now. 
  I tried Kenrad VT-229, Tungsol 6SU7GTY, RCA 5691 with 6AS7G and 7236.
  RCA 6AS7G + Kenrad VT-229 is pretty good too.


----------



## dyl1dyl

It'll be great to see how the mark 6+ runs the new Audez'e LCD-3s.
http://musingsofahungryaudiophile.blogspot.com/2011/10/audeze-lcd-3.html


----------



## rattesp

Ok, so it's normal. I really like the 7236. Paired with RCA 5691, it's a great match ! I also like the KenRad VT229 for some extra bass impact.


----------



## dyl1dyl

Yay, my mk6+ just shipped (around 2 weeks). Im planning to get some vt 229s as well as 5998s and shuguang treausure cv181zs to roll and will post impressions asap


----------



## zenpunk

I tried some 5998 but I wasn't convinced by the sound presentation considering how expansive those are. The sound appeared more in focus somehow but the soundstage was more 2D. I bellieve the provided 6080WC are actually very good. Trying some Sovtek 6AS7 at the moment and I am really enjoying those, slightly smoother and more spatious that the stock tubes. 
  I don't think the Shuguang CV181 fit because of their larger base unless you take off the golden ring...


----------



## LiqTenExp

I pulled the power plugs to my fans and the noise in the 1/4" is all but gone.  I could hear a noise walking through in a cyclic rate (two fans operating at not quite exactly the same rpm).  Yep, most of my noise was the fans.  Unit is still cool, I know LD says you can run with out them in a normal temp room.


----------



## zenpunk

I wonder what has happened to Dyl1dyl and his Little Dot? Anyway I sourced some relatively cheap Tung-Sol 7236 and just ordered some Full Music 6SL7, and I think I 'll have enough tubes to play with for a while..Will report back


----------



## Benny-x

Yes, I'm also waiting to hear back on his impressions with the tube rolling! Man I'm excited about picking one of these up. I really want to get some solid leads on what tubes to go with though, so I can hit hte ground running so to speak.
   
  As for unplugging the fans, did anyone else try that and loose the noise in the non-4pin jacks? That really would be great news as I'm a little worried about that issue when I hopefully pick one of these up in 2months.


----------



## zenpunk

I wouldn't consider the MKVI+ if you don't plan to use it in a fully balanced configuration. It would just be a waste IMHO.
  About tubes upgrade I will keep the very good W6080C as finding better tubes will cost quite a lot and the improvement would be very small. But I would replace the  driver tube with for example some Russian Tung-Sol 6SU7 reissue, which are cheap and easy to source.


----------



## LiqTenExp

Definitely do the drivers, 1/4" output was an afterthought.  Buy it if you want to run balanced headphones.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> I wouldn't consider the MKVI+ if you don't plan to use it in a fully balanced configuration. It would just be a waste IMHO.
> About tubes upgrade I will keep the very good W6080C as finding better tubes will cost quite a lot and the improvement would be very small. But I would replace the  driver tube with for example some Russian Tung-Sol 6SU7 reissue, which are cheap and easy to source.


 


  i tried some power tubes.
  you have a big improvement to change the drivers tubes.
  i had one pair of nos tung-sol 6sU7.
  for me very good tubes, i bought from www.tubeworld.com(one matched pair)


----------



## LiqTenExp

My favorite combo is Nos Tungsol 5998 power tubes and NOS Tungsol 6SL7GT (VT-229) BGRP driver tubes


----------



## zenpunk

Enjoying Tung-Sol 7236 +Full Music 6SL7 at the moment.
  Still trying to source some reasonably priced 5998s; Any idea?


----------



## LiqTenExp

http://vacuumtubes.net/RES%20Audio%20pages/5998.html 45 bucks a pop.  They were really nice the ones I got, very clean.


----------



## zenpunk

Got my 7236 from that place but they don't have 5998 in stock any more. The only place I found selling 5998 wanted $100 per tube 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But thanks anyway...


----------



## irvin59

I got mine last week. The output from the SE is perfect-no hum, very good sq.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Has anyone done any heavy modification to theirs? I haven't seen to much info on mods for this amp, but people have talked about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## irvin59

Do the power tubes have to be matched?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





irvin59 said:


> Do the power tubes have to be matched?


 


  is better and with the triodes balanced or with a value close


----------



## LiqTenExp

What headphone are you using with it?
  
  Quote: 





irvin59 said:


> I got mine last week. The output from the SE is perfect-no hum, very good sq.


----------



## irvin59

Denon D7000 se. Balanced LCD 3 JH 16 pro rewired D2000. I have had no noise or hum at all, other than a slight noise from the fans (not through the headphones). I was quite worried when I ordered it that I would have to go through a whole process of noise elemination but I guess I was lucky.


----------



## elwappo99

In an unfortunate turn of events, my MKVI+ is now blowing fuses left and right. Working with David for a solution. This can occur if you have bad tubes, but I've tried 4 different quads in the back and 3 different pairs on the front with the same result. Anyone have ideas?


----------



## reiserFS

Most likely an internal problem. I highly doubt that it's because of the tubes.
  
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> In an unfortunate turn of events, my MKVI+ is now blowing fuses left and right. Working with David for a solution. This can occur if you have bad tubes, but I've tried 4 different quads in the back and 3 different pairs on the front with the same result. Anyone have ideas?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Most likely an internal problem. I highly doubt that it's because of the tubes.


 

 Someone listed it as what happened to theirs. We will see what david says. He's taking a little longer than usual to respond to me, which worries me a little.


----------



## zenpunk

I feel for you and I dread something like that happening to mine as I enjoy it so much. But I guess that one of the problem with ordering something direct from China, you get incredible value for money  but when things go wrong it is a pain in the a**e. I have no doubt David will look after you but you  will probably have to send it back to China.
  I think if something was to go wrong I would just fixed it  locally and get  the all thing  upgraded (trafo, pot and caps). I am not even sure the SQ could be improved on but while you are at it...


----------



## Benny-x

Quote: 





irvin59 said:


> Denon D7000 se. Balanced LCD 3 JH 16 pro rewired D2000. I have had no noise or hum at all, other than a slight noise from the fans (not through the headphones). I was quite worried when I ordered it that I would have to go through a whole process of noise elemination but I guess I was lucky.


 


  Since you have 2 of the headphones I want and one of them I REALLY wonder about, how do the D7000 and especially the LCD3 sound out of the MkVI+? I really wonder about the D7000 since they have such low impedance, same goes for the JH16 Pro's if you some how got them hooked up to the MkVI+, haha?
   
  And unfortunately elwappo99, I'm still sans amp, so I can't help you out with anything   I do hope you get it figured out and then report back about it. If you do end up getting it fixed locally, I'm totally with Zenpunk in that you should give it a real run and have anything upgraded that you can :-D  I'd like to know if any of that would offer any improvements, I could always do it down the road if it was worth it at all


----------



## irvin59

I haven't used the D7000's much with the amp as they are se. They do sound pretty good though from casual listening and I had no problem with the low impedance. I do have a balanced connection for the JH16 pros via a RSA to XLR adaptor and they sound excellent. I have no problems with hiss or hum- but only about a quarter of the volume dial is in use. The LCD 3's are the most interesting challenge for me with this amp. I think they both tend to  dark and laid back type of sound and there is a danger that this could get to be a bit too much for some listeners. What I have discovered quite to my surprise as a cable skeptic is that the silver dragon 3 on the LCD 3 gives a welcome lift and sparkle.you should also take what I say cautiously as the amp is still new and barely If at  all burned in


----------



## zenpunk

I am quite surprised by your findings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Considering how powerful the MKV+ is, I wouldn't have dared plugging some very sensitive and expansive iem as those could be fried easily if you forget to lower the volume.
  With my full-size JVC DX1000 (64Ohms and 106db/mv) I can hear a very low level buzzing when no music is playing and I can' t go past 20 volume wise. Considering the JH16pro is only 18Ohms and 118db/mv how is that possible?
  What source are you using? Balanced with with 4v voltage output?


----------



## irvin59

Well they're not fried luckily and sound very good as I said. The input is balanced from a transporter. I don't know what the output voltage is. The MK VI is the 220 V version.


----------



## zenpunk

Very puzzling...Is that the Logitech transporter? is your volume maxed out (0db) when listening through the LD? Are you using any kind of main filtering? stock tubes?
  Sorry about all the questions? but if mine buzz with the JVC when yours is silent with the JH16  that means there is an issue with my set up somewhere...


----------



## elwappo99

Well, sad news to report. It appears as if my amp is headed back to china for david to look at it, unless anyone knows any locals in my area that might be able to help out.


----------



## zenpunk

Sorry to hear it Elwappo99, 
  was your LD completely silent when no music was playing with your D7000 or Grado?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Well, sad news to report. It appears as if my amp is headed back to china for david to look at it, unless anyone knows any locals in my area that might be able to help out.


 


  this amplifier is not difficult to repair.
  there is not a technician throughout L.A.?


----------



## irvin59

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Very puzzling...Is that the Logitech transporter? is your volume maxed out (0db) when listening through the LD? Are you using any kind of main filtering? stock tubes?
> Sorry about all the questions? but if mine buzz with the JVC when yours is silent with the JH16  that means there is an issue with my set up somewhere...


 


   
   
  It is the Logitech. 0 db. Stock tubes. No filtering.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





alota said:


> this amplifier is not difficult to repair.
> there is not a technician throughout L.A.?


 


   Are you going back to tubes Aldo?
  I will keep some nice Bendix 6080WB Red Bank for you!


----------



## alota

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Are you going back to tubes Aldo?
> I will keep some nice Bendix 6080WB Red Bank for you!


 







  well i´m thinking in this issue but, first, i need to listen the new magnum
  you know a pazzoman tubes pusher in south europe?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Sorry to hear it Elwappo99,
> was your LD completely silent when no music was playing with your D7000 or Grado?


 


  When i had the D7000 balanced, definitely no noise at lower volumes when the sound was muted.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





alota said:


> this amplifier is not difficult to repair.
> there is not a technician throughout L.A.?


 


  I wish I knew where to start looking for one, but I really have no idea.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





alota said:


> well i´m thinking in this issue but, first, i need to listen the new magnum
> you know a pazzoman tubes pusher in south europe?


 


   There is only one, I heard, I'll look for him.
   
  BTW has anybody tried the Bendix 6080WB?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I wish I knew where to start looking for one, but I really have no idea.


 


  wow.
  L.A. is a big city.
  try to open a thread and ask on head-fi


----------



## reiserFS

How I wish I would've tried some Red Bank Bendix on the LD before selling it.
  
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> There is only one, I heard, I'll look for him.
> 
> BTW has anybody tried the Bendix 6080WB?


----------



## Benny-x

Quote: 





irvin59 said:


> I haven't used the D7000's much with the amp as they are se. They do sound pretty good though from casual listening and I had no problem with the low impedance. I do have a balanced connection for the JH16 pros via a RSA to XLR adaptor and they sound excellent. I have no problems with hiss or hum- but only about a quarter of the volume dial is in use. The LCD 3's are the most interesting challenge for me with this amp. I think they both tend to  dark and laid back type of sound and there is a danger that this could get to be a bit too much for some listeners. What I have discovered quite to my surprise as a cable skeptic is that the silver dragon 3 on the LCD 3 gives a welcome lift and sparkle.you should also take what I say cautiously as the amp is still new and barely If at  all burned in


 


  Well I'm happy to hear that you didn't find any problems with the low impedance D7000s. I've got a pair of DX1000s that I can't wait to try when I get this amp after Christmas, but I've been a bit worried about how sensitive they are and how powerful the MkVI+ is. So, that's news to my ears, literally :-D  If the future goes well I'll be adding a balanced pair of D7000s or LA7000s to my stable around April/May, so any impressions with them are very useful for me. Thanks a lot!
   
  And WOW, that's pretty surprising to read that you actually do have balanced cables for the JH16 Pros, and that you've tried them on the MkVI+, and that there wasn't any hum, AND that they still work! Since your SE connection seems to sound ok too, maybe you got a miracle unit? Haha, I hope not, I hope mine's just as good~... Then for your LCD3s, it was interesting to read that they sound dark with it; hopefully with a cable swap like you did and some revealing tubes I'll be able to match the two up.
   
  I plan on getting those LCD3s too, do you think they're worth it with this amp? I plan on upgrading and playing the amp field in the future, but for now do you think the LCD3s are even reasonable to buy with the MkVI+? They're $2k+ headphones with an aftermarket cable, that's like 3.5x the amp's price... Might it all come down to source?
   
   
  And lastly, what's this Bendix 6080WB Red bank tube? I'm not too tube savvy, but I do recognize common and notable names from here and there. I don't however, recognize that one at all, yet a few of you seem to be talking like it's something special. What types can it roll with, how available is it, and how much does it cost?


----------



## rosgr63

The Bendix 6080WB are the holy grail of 6080 tubes.
  Made under strict control for USAF.
  The heavy duty construction speaks for itself.
   
  The SQ is excellent.
   
  Prices vary from $20-$30 to $140 for one.
   
  Here is a photo.


----------



## irvin59

Quote: 





benny-x said:


> Well I'm happy to hear that you didn't find any problems with the low impedance D7000s. I've got a pair of DX1000s that I can't wait to try when I get this amp after Christmas, but I've been a bit worried about how sensitive they are and how powerful the MkVI+ is. So, that's news to my ears, literally :-D  If the future goes well I'll be adding a balanced pair of D7000s or LA7000s to my stable around April/May, so any impressions with them are very useful for me. Thanks a lot!
> 
> And WOW, that's pretty surprising to read that you actually do have balanced cables for the JH16 Pros, and that you've tried them on the MkVI+, and that there wasn't any hum, AND that they still work! Since your SE connection seems to sound ok too, maybe you got a miracle unit? Haha, I hope not, I hope mine's just as good~... Then for your LCD3s, it was interesting to read that they sound dark with it; hopefully with a cable swap like you did and some revealing tubes I'll be able to match the two up.
> 
> ...


 


  The LCD 3 can be a bit dark with other amps too. It's the Audeze sound signature, so I wouldn't worry that this amp is a mismatch. That doesn't mean you can't tweak for your own preferences. Whether they're worth $2000 is another question and there's at least one other thread on that topic.(for me the jury is still out).


----------



## baronbeehive

Hi Guys I've just found this thread so I've copied my post which I put on the mk vi thread which has now ceased.
   
  I thought I would throw in my tuppenny worth because there seems to be so little information on the mkvi and would like to contribute something to the discussion on this fantastic amp having been helped by forum members previously. My set up is: PC>FOOBAR>USB to TOSLINK>CHANNEL ISLANDS AUDIO BALANCED DAC>ALO AUDIO SILVER COATED COPPER RCA'S>LD MKVI+>AUDIO TECHNICA ATH AD2000'S and SENNHEISER HD600's. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is the correct thread so here goes!
  
 Previous to the mkvi I owned a mkiv se and always loved it with the standard power tubes and Tung Sol 6ak5w driver tubes which gave a much clearer warmer and less overpoweringly tubey sound than with the original m8100 driver tubes. The only upgrade I could think of from there was to go balanced to get the next step in up in SQ therefore I went for the mk vi a year ago. So far I've only used it single ended due to financial constraints! Since owning it I wanted to get the mkiv sound back which I loved and came close to it with raytheon vt231 6sn7 tubes. However I liked the slightly more tubey sound that the 6sn7 driver tubes gave me over the mkiv sound whilst still retaining the detail, it is a tube amp after all! This is why I like the amp so much, but if any one wants to know how it sounds then refer to the mkiii or mkivse review for close approximation as the sound signature is similar according to others, with the mkiii slightly warm and the mkiv slightly clearer but taking the sound up a notch again.
  
 TUBE ROLLING. What follows are my observations from memory on the other tubes I've tried, and how they affect the sound of the amp. There is a good choice with the 6sn7 tube family which are suited to this amp and are all great tubes. The rca 6sn7 gtb are beautifully rich, detailed and balanced, whereas the vt123 grey glass tubes are musical, very balanced and exceptionally smooth and easy to listen to. The sylvania 6sn7 gtb are warm, detailed, balanced, crisp and slightly solid state sounding. The tung
 sol 6sn7 gtb sound clear, detailed and analytical. Brimar cv1988 tubes are very dynamic, punchy, tubey and fantastic for mid range vocals, especially female. Finally the tung sol oval plate tubes are about the best I've tried with a beautiful balance, detailed base and magical silky treble and 3d soundstage. If anyone wants any further elaboration please let me know as I have had to find most of this out for myself with a little help and I would be pleased to respond with my own observations. I've also tried some tung sol 7236 power tubes which are very clear, detailed and analytical sounding. The only tubes I would like to try now are the sylvania 6as7g power tubes which are supposed to be warm, detailed with a good soundstage and I would like to contrast these with the rca 6as7g power tubes that I've been using up to now. I've tried examples from the main tube families so I would think that within these families the tubes all have a similar sound signature eg sylvanias are all warm and crisp sounding whereas rca's are smooth and rich sounding etc. I've also tried all the main construction types eg flat plate, round plate, t plate etc so have got a rough idea of these sound signatures. Anyone can get an overall picture from various tube sites.
  
 I hope this gives and indication of characteristics of the mkvi. I love it and for the value and also the customer experience I am really impressed. I can't see me ever changing the set up - possibly!  In the future I do want to go balanced however with some HiFiMan HE500's which can be easily recabled unlike my Audio Technicas. It they are as good as the reviews say then I will have the perfect set up - great sounding amp with no faults that I can detect, and one of the best sets of headphones around!!!
   
  Finally regarding the hum, I did think that it had been sorted with the later mkvi's. Mine is a mkvi+ and I don't get this humming noise, all I get is the quiet whirring of the fans which is not a problem. Just occasionally I do get a slight hum on one or other channel which I put down to interference of some sort, either my own system or from other networks possibly, or the tubes. I'm not an expert on this but this noise never lasts and is never intrusive.
   
  Great to come across this thread at last, carry on the good work!


----------



## alota

you confirm the compatibility with the 6sn7 tube family?
  i asx because with the new release of this amplifiers, this tube does not appear in the user manual
  
  Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Hi Guys I've just found this thread so I've copied my post which I put on the mk vi thread which has now ceased.
> 
> I thought I would throw in my tuppenny worth because there seems to be so little information on the mkvi and would like to contribute something to the discussion on this fantastic amp having been helped by forum members previously. My set up is: PC>FOOBAR>USB to TOSLINK>CHANNEL ISLANDS AUDIO BALANCED DAC>ALO AUDIO SILVER COATED COPPER RCA'S>LD MKVI+>AUDIO TECHNICA ATH AD2000'S and SENNHEISER HD600's. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is the correct thread so here goes!
> 
> ...


----------



## Benny-x

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> The Bendix 6080WB are the holy grail of 6080 tubes.
> Made under strict control for USAF.
> The heavy duty construction speaks for itself.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for letting me know, that's good to hear   But how rare are they? And that's a pretty huge fluctuation in price, is there any determining factors for that? And hmm, I might have to start looking into these tubes in about 3 months time 
   
  And as for that HUGE tube rolling post, that's great info! Little by little I think I'm putting together a good picture of what tubes I want to buy for this thing. I was also happy to read that you're using the amp with some ATH-A2000s. That's a pair of headphones that's on my "soon to buy" list. Can you fil in any more details on them with this amp, pros and cons  ?
   
  And the LCD3s, that's good news that there's nothing really different or special going on with this amp. But yeah, $2k is a lot of coin and an amount that I would wonder if I'm better off capping out my headphones with and putting into speakers... When I can find the money I think I'll move on a pair, but that won't be for a while. Haha, some LCD4s might be out by that time...


----------



## rosgr63

Benny It took me two years to find some more that I wanted.
  The price variation is huge depending on the condition, how good the silk screening is, original box etc.
   
  The MOV 6AS7G will be worth trying, and combined with the Brimar 6SN7GTY will be one of the very best combinations.


----------



## putente

I'm not an owner (yet), but I'd like to know if anyone can tell me if there are Little Dot online sellers inside Europe (if there are any)...
   
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## reiserFS

You should probably shoot David a quick mail regarding this, he knows best.
  
  Quote: 





putente said:


> I'm not an owner (yet), but I'd like to know if anyone can tell me if there are Little Dot online sellers inside Europe (if there are any)...
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





putente said:


> I'm not an owner (yet), but I'd like to know if anyone can tell me if there are Little Dot online sellers inside Europe (if there are any)...
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 


  pm portuguese sent.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





alota said:


> you confirm the compatibility with the 6sn7 tube family?
> i asx because with the new release of this amplifiers, this tube does not appear in the user manual


 


  Yes that's confirmed in the review http://www.head-fi.org/t/425314/yet-another-little-dot-mkvi-amp-review but you can always email David if you wish.


  Quote: 





benny-x said:


> .......And as for that HUGE tube rolling post, that's great info! Little by little I think I'm putting together a good picture of what tubes I want to buy for this thing. I was also happy to read that you're using the amp with some ATH-A2000s. That's a pair of headphones that's on my "soon to buy" list. Can you fil in any more details on them with this amp, pros and cons  ?
> 
> ............


 


 I love these headphones.  And they are a good combo with the amp. Before I got them I was aware that they are obviously not perfect but for the price they looked the best compromise. First the flaws I've heard mentioned: some lack of realism in the sound, cold sound, too crisp top end, possible lack of clarity in soundstage eg under high volume, light base, sometimes muddled mid range. I have not been able to confirm any of these supposed defects with this amp. The sound is ultra realistic so I dismiss that out of hand, there is a nice warm tinge with this amp, the top end is beautifully smooth, the soundstage is clear with height and depth though not overly large but quite realistic, and I have not been able to confirm any muddling of mid range sounds, on the contrary multi layered music is produced with a quite amazing clarity. Now to the strengths of these cans: They have great dynamics and can produce the quietest sounds such as bell chimes with great clarity, they are very exciting to listen to - not boring like the Sennheiser HD600's which I have also had - yet they are not fatigueing, they are exceptionally balanced throughout the frequency range with no roll off that I can detect, and they are exceptionally detailed. The base is not for base heads but it is realistic with good textural details but does not provide much of a slam which is alright by me and the treble is beautifully smooth and quite liquid sounding. The major supposed flaw is the supposed lack of clarity in the mid range. I believe this is related to its main strength which is that of a very musical and rewardingly emotional sound due to the forward sound in the mid range which is emphasized to bring out the magic of say, female voices. This can sound muddled to some but as I've said I have not found this to be so. All I can hear is the beautifully detailed, layered sound which comes across perfectly. It may be that the amp has neutralized these possible defects but all I can say is that I would be most reluctant to change these phones. The only reason I will do so later this year probably is because of the difficutly in recabling them for balanced mode which is why I wan to go for the HiFiMans mentioned earlier which will not have this problem.


----------



## alota

for the first release, i know this.
  i had one and i used the 6sn7.
  but for the second version, littledot not confirm this
  Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Yes that's confirmed in the review http://www.head-fi.org/t/425314/yet-another-little-dot-mkvi-amp-review but you can always email David if you wish.
> 
> 
> I love these headphones.  And they are a good combo with the amp. Before I got them I was aware that they are obviously not perfect but for the price they looked the best compromise. First the flaws I've heard mentioned: some lack of realism in the sound, cold sound, too crisp top end, possible lack of clarity in soundstage eg under high volume, light base, sometimes muddled mid range. I have not been able to confirm any of these supposed defects with this amp. The sound is ultra realistic so I dismiss that out of hand, there is a nice warm tinge with this amp, the top end is beautifully smooth, the soundstage is clear with height and depth though not overly large but quite realistic, and I have not been able to confirm any muddling of mid range sounds, on the contrary multi layered music is produced with a quite amazing clarity. Now to the strengths of these cans: They have great dynamics and can produce the quietest sounds such as bell chimes with great clarity, they are very exciting to listen to - not boring like the Sennheiser HD600's which I have also had - yet they are not fatigueing, they are exceptionally balanced throughout the frequency range with no roll off that I can detect, and they are exceptionally detailed. The base is not for base heads but it is realistic with good textural details but does not provide much of a slam which is alright by me and the treble is beautifully smooth and quite liquid sounding. The major supposed flaw is the supposed lack of clarity in the mid range. I believe this is related to its main strength which is that of a very musical and rewardingly emotional sound due to the forward sound in the mid range which is emphasized to bring out the magic of say, female voices. This can sound muddled to some but as I've said I have not found this to be so. All I can hear is the beautifully detailed, layered sound which comes across perfectly. It may be that the amp has neutralized these possible defects but all I can say is that I would be most reluctant to change these phones. The only reason I will do so later this year probably is because of the difficutly in recabling them for balanced mode which is why I wan to go for the HiFiMans mentioned earlier which will not have this problem.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





alota said:


> for the first release, i know this.
> i had one and i used the 6sn7.
> but for the second version, littledot not confirm this


 


 The only difference between the mkvi and the mkvi+ is the addition of single ended connections. I've been using the 6sn7 for a  year with no problems. If you want to confirm this you should check it out with LD but I understand they would not comment because they do not want to condone non standard tubes. Sorry I can't help any more.


----------



## baronbeehive

Further to my last post alota you will be pleased to hear David has just confirmed that 6sn7 tubes are fine for the mkvi+!


----------



## alota

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Further to my last post alota you will be pleased to hear David has just confirmed that 6sn7 tubes are fine for the mkvi+!


 


  thank you!!!


----------



## Trance_Gott

I want to buy MK VI+ to drive my LCD2. I have no balanced cable for them and my cd player has only cinch out. The disadvantage is that the neutrik input is on the back of the amplifier. Is it possible to use the single ended input with the balance output on the front? When yes, where can i buy a converter from 6,35mm to xlr for the lcd2?
  Has somebody experience with LCD2 and MKVI+ in single ended mode?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I want to buy MK VI+ to drive my LCD2. I have no balanced cable for them and my cd player has only cinch out. The disadvantage is that the neutrik input is on the back of the amplifier. Is it possible to use the single ended input with the balance output on the front? When yes, where can i buy a converter from 6,35mm to xlr for the lcd2?
> Has somebody experience with LCD2 and MKVI+ in single ended mode?


 


  the mk Vi unbalanced is not big deal.
  more logic to buy an unbalanced but good amplifier.
  if you convert the cinh to xlr the voltage out of the source is the same.
  for this reason, every polarity is drived with half voltage from the source.
  i´m not good to explain this but i have one example.
  the output source is 1V.
  if you convert the unbalanced to balanced 1 v drive the + and - of one channel(0.5V for the + and 0.5V for the -)


----------



## Trance_Gott

Which unbalanced tube amp do you recommend for LCD2 and W1000x?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> Which unbalanced tube amp do you recommend for LCD2 and W1000x?


 


  i don´t know.
  i´m sorry.
  exist one specific thread relatively the amplification for the lcd-2


----------



## elwappo99

Hey Trance! Where are you located? The MKVI+ is really phenomenal with the LCD2. I thought it compensated some of the weaknesses in it. Do you have the stock LCD2 cable? If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can reterminate the cable really easily.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Hello elwappo99,
   
  i'm from germany. Yes, I have the stock cable. How good is the MK VI+ with single ended. Have you test it?
  I have a CD Player with only cinch out. So when i make the cable of my LCD2 balanced I have no fully balanced setup. Single Ended input with balanced output, is this working?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> Hello elwappo99,
> 
> i'm from germany. Yes, I have the stock cable. How good is the MK VI+ with single ended. Have you test it?
> I have a CD Player with only cinch out. So when i make the cable of my LCD2 balanced I have no fully balanced setup. Single Ended input with balanced output, is this working?


 

 The MKVI+ with single ended input is absolutely fine. The MKVI+ with single ended output has some issues. As long as you are using the 4 pin XLR balanced in the front you will be great.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> The MKVI+ with single ended input is absolutely fine. The MKVI+ with single ended output has some issues. As long as you are using the 4 pin XLR balanced in the front you will be great.


 

 i´m sorry but i think that is not logical to buy a balanced amplifier with a unbalanced source
  is best to buy an unbalanced otl or another amplifier with 2A3 or 330B tubes, for example


----------



## Trance_Gott

I think i better buy the Lyr.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I think i better buy the Lyr.


 

 easiest solution


----------



## LiqTenExp

I would suggest the Lyr from personal experience if you plan on using unbalanced 1/4" (or 1/8").  If you plan on going with a full balanced setup I would suggest the LD MKVI+
   
  My current setup has a source thats balanced and I would up enjoying the LD over the Lyr with my LCD-2 Rev1


----------



## phandrew

Is the output of the VI+ a true balance output amp?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





phandrew said:


> Is the output of the VI+ a true balance output amp?


 


  of course!!!
  the mkVI is born  true balanced amplifier with only xlr in and out.
  in the second release exisrt the input and output unbalanced


----------



## seaice

Hi!
   
  I was delivered VIII SE this morning (upgraded wih hifituning and furutech fuses) and got stuck for the whole day listening. This amp really impress me! I tried the stock tubes and the sound was very good. I am trying Tesla E83CC tubes (original ones) now and the sound is really great. My setup is fully balanced (Audio-GD Reference One DAC as a source, and balanced Sennheiser HD800 on my head). I will try to post more impressions after long period of critical listening.
   
  By the way, what are you favourite tubes for HD800 with VIII SE?


----------



## baronbeehive

Just a quick update to my post on the amp with my audio technicas. I now have the HiFiMan HE-500's with balanced cabling, which are pretty awesome. The sound signature is pretty similar so just go by what I said previously except that these have more presence, resolution, space around the instruments, in fact these are simply the best headphones I have ever heard or can imagine. Like the Audio Technicas they have amazing detail and a good accurate soundstage but they push it slightly further. They are slightly less up front in the mid frequency range but still very strong. However the balance and smoothness throughout the frequency band is incredible and you  don't need to listen to them with the volume pumped right up to hear everything either. The main difference is in the base. It is very realistic, detailed and powerful though not overpowering.
   
  You cannot fail to be impressed with this setup. The level of sound is such that you are there, in the concert hall or studio. One track that I have which shows up the presence of these headphones is Jim Brock's Pasajes, and the track, Reunion, in which the different percussive effects are
   
  Oh and finally, the buzz is not present at all, both in balanced and single ended mode. All there is is silence until the music starts of course and then you just can't stop listening to this headphone/amp combo and enjoying it!


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





> You cannot fail to be impressed with this setup. The level of sound is such that you are there, in the concert hall or studio. One track that I have which shows up the presence of these headphones is Jim Brock's Pasajes, and the track, Reunion, in which the different percussive effects are


 
   
  To finish what I said, "the percussive effects are there in alarming realism"


----------



## zenpunk

+1
  MKVI+ and HE-500 is a superb combo. Great dynamics, fast and detailed.
  Are you using the stock tubes?


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Just a quick update to my post on the amp with my audio technicas. I now have the HiFiMan HE-500's with balanced cabling, which are pretty awesome. The sound signature is pretty similar so just go by what I said previously except that these have more presence, resolution, space around the instruments, in fact these are simply the best headphones I have ever heard or can imagine. Like the Audio Technicas they have amazing detail and a good accurate soundstage but they push it slightly further. They are slightly less up front in the mid frequency range but still very strong. However the balance and smoothness throughout the frequency band is incredible and you  don't need to listen to them with the volume pumped right up to hear everything either. The main difference is in the base. It is very realistic, detailed and powerful though not overpowering.
> 
> You cannot fail to be impressed with this setup. The level of sound is such that you are there, in the concert hall or studio. One track that I have which shows up the presence of these headphones is Jim Brock's Pasajes, and the track, Reunion, in which the different percussive effects are
> 
> Oh and finally, the buzz is not present at all, both in balanced and single ended mode. All there is is silence until the music starts of course and then you just can't stop listening to this headphone/amp combo and enjoying it!


 

 Thats great, the littledot stuff is really good value, especially the mk6 and mk8. I'm finding my mk6+ with the LCD-3s balanced are outperforming my woo wa5 which cost about three times more.


----------



## baronbeehive

That's incredible dyl1dyl that the LD outperforms the Woo wa5 because I looked at them before going for the LD and decided to go for value. It looks like I made the right decision thanks. Unbelievable given the reputation of the Woo. But the LD has been overlooked recently unfortunately and I don't think they deserve that.
   
  Yes zenpunk, great cans, detailed, fast, but natural decay as well. Very realistic and most important for me, musical in spades! The tubes are RCA 6AS7G's and Tung Sol 6SL7GT's, and RCA 6SN7GTB's. Detailed on the one hand and rich and tubey sounding on the other. The only others I'm really intersted in at the moment are the Sylvania 7236's to give a warmer sound if possible.


----------



## elwappo99

Finally got my MKVI+ back from china a few weeks ago. It's nice to have it back. It goes really well with the HE-6!


----------



## [OverDrive]

http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2016&sid=1d5d2c7f8bde7a2873a13e99a0d7b5fb


----------



## Neogeo333

Those figure seems a bit under rated.  50ohm at 9v = 1.62w?  I thought the MK6 produces more than that.


----------



## Papander

neogeo333 said:


> Those figure seems a bit under rated.  50ohm at 9v = 1.62w?  I thought the MK6 produces more than that.




1,62W is quite a lot. Do you have a headphone in mind that would need over 1W at 50ohm?


----------



## Neogeo333

LCD-2.  They need a good high powered amp to sound good.  Not just for sheer power but for control and reserve.  Also T50RP  specially when modded.


----------



## Papander

Hmm according to math LCD-2 needs about 80mW power and 40mA current for a 110dBSPL. Compare that to Hifiman HE-6 which needs 450mW and 95mA. Both still quite far from 1W.
   
  This is assuming that manufacturers websites actually have correct impedance and sensitivity numbers.


----------



## elwappo99

The mkvi+ produces way more power than the 1.62 @ 50ohm. Either way the lcd2 won't need that much power. Only headphones that really need more than 1w is the he-6.


----------



## Jdevesa

Hello, I just got a Little Dot MK VI+ and want to confirm what are the Gain settings for Orthos (HIFIMAN / Audeze) since the manual is not too clear. 
   
  I am assuming both gain switches must be in 0 on both sides but want to confirm (its a hassle to take out the tubes, open the amp, change settings and retest). 
   
  Also, what does leaving one switch in 1 and the other in 0 does (if anything)? 
   
  Lastly, I would like to change the stock tubes to the best power / driver tubes available for bass and clarity (mine came with the Driver Tube 6N9P and the Power Tubes Rayeton JAN6080)
   
  Thanks!


----------



## john57

For Otho's you may want the gain to be set at 10. I am assuming that it will be 0 on all four switches.I believe that the amp default gain is 5. Moving the switches to 1 and 0 may have no effect or no overhaul system gain would be my guess. I have a custom 6AS7/6080 tube amp and the Raytheon 6080 heavy plate tubes shown on EBay is about the warmest 6080 tubes you can find. Using 5998 tubes may give a bit more bass.  I think that a better driver tube like the dark glass RCA tubes may have more appeal to you


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





jdevesa said:


> Hello, I just got a Little Dot MK VI+ and want to confirm what are the Gain settings for Orthos (HIFIMAN / Audeze) since the manual is not too clear.
> 
> I am assuming both gain switches must be in 0 on both sides but want to confirm (its a hassle to take out the tubes, open the amp, change settings and retest).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi there!
   
  This is a very powerful amp. Not to mention one of the best balanced amp I've heard overall.  You are correct on the gain switches. I think only one of those switches on either side actually control the gain. 
   
  There's some other good info in the manual here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6037680/Little%20Dot%20MK%20VI%2B%20Reference%20Guide.pdf)


----------



## Neogeo333

Im using 5998 now and it sounds good with the  LCD-2, but man the Mullard 6080 along with  Mullard ECC35 makes it shine so more.  Better soundstage and clarity only loosing a bit of bass. 
   
  Have anyone tried other tubes with it?  I mean 6336A or something not 6080,6as7 or 5998?


----------



## john57

Never use the 6336A tubes since it uses twice the heater current of the 6080 unless the amp manufacture specially says that you can use them. It is like trying to power up eight 6080 tubes instead of four. One other power tube you could use is the 7236 tubes. On the driver tube side you can have more choices and you can expand those choices with adapters.


----------



## Jdevesa

Thanks! I had already downloaded the manual from the LD dropbox site but wanted to confirm since there are no pictures of the gain switches.
   
  Have been burning the MK VI for around 5hrs and find the highs lacking compared to connecting my HE-500 directly to mu Nuforce Icon DAC.
   
  Is this because of the stock tubes, burn in needed or both?


----------



## john57

The stock power tube is a just a bit of a mellow tube. I have no experince with the driver tube you are using. The 7236 and the 6080WC tend to have a bit more sharp in the high frequencies. Are you using single or balanced inputs from where?


----------



## Jdevesa

Well, mine came with the following tubes (at least what I can read on them):
   
   
  Driver Tube - 2 6N9P J+ 70 II
  Power Tubes - 4 Rayeton JAN6080 WC 41
   
  I am using the NuForce Icon DAC which has no balanced outputs (RCA connection) and connect my Hifiman HE-500 using the balanced port. 
   
  Still looking for a good fully balanced DAC that is better than the NuForce, any recommendations?


----------



## seaice

My tube experiments with the Little Dot MKVIIIse:
   
  Power Tubes: I have bought a matched quad of Russian tubes 6H30 PI / 6H30 DR and everything sounds great with them.
   
  Driver Tube: 
  2x Tesla E83CC original (great)
  2x Brimar 6060 with yellow print (great)
  2x RCA 12AT7 ECC81 (good, nothing to complaint for the low price I paid, great price/SQ ratio)
   
  They all sound better than the stock tubes to me. The Teslas and Brimars are really great!
   
  Little Dot MKVIIIse is a great amp and preamp. I really enjoy it since the day I bought it. DAC: Audio-GD Reference One. Headphones: Sennheiser HD800.


----------



## Neogeo333

This little MK6 has come to another level of pure enjoyment after another driver upgrade.  Went from Mullard ECC35 to Mullard ECC32 and DAMN!!! this thing along with 5998 is something to behold.  Its like you peel a old layer away from the music and it have now a more transparent and natural sound.  Even thought the ECC32 are not matched or same base (black and brown) this tube does have its magic.  Better highs and mids.  But I find bass is somewhat a little weaker than the ecc35.  Using my LCD-2 rev.2 and 4pin cable with it. 
   
  Anyone tried other ECCxx form Mullard with their MK6?  So far ecc32>ecc35.  Next stop is ecc34 in like 2-3 weeks. 
   
  If anyone here had tried the Mullard ECC32 have you guys been able to sit the tube completely in?  I mean the base from the ECC32 is too big to fit all the way in.  Right now I think the pins are 3/4 way in.  Is it all right to leave it like that?


----------



## preproman

+1


----------



## Jdevesa

Got the RCA 6AS7G Power tubes and Tung-Sol VT-229 driver tubes today and after sometime of letting them warm up with different music through my LCD-3's I can say that the sound is absolutely phenomenal an unreal for a sub $1,000 amp even with the upgraded tubes (plus is looks fantastic with the RCA's)


----------



## Jdevesa

Quote: 





jdevesa said:


> Got the RCA 6AS7G Power tubes and Tung-Sol VT-229 driver tubes today and after sometime of letting them warm up with different music through my LCD-3's I can say that the sound is absolutely phenomenal an unreal for a sub $1,000 amp even with the upgraded tubes (plus is looks fantastic with the RCA's)


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jdevesa said:


> Well, mine came with the following tubes (at least what I can read on them):
> 
> 
> Driver Tube - 2 6N9P J+ 70 II
> ...


 
  Two good ones come to mind.
   
  http://nekoaudio.com/
   
  http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/havana%20balanced.htm


----------



## john57

I received my Little Dot VI+ from David. I changed the Chinese driver tube to a GE 6SL7 with bottom getter's leaving the RCA 6080 power tubes in place. The sound quality is spectacular! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



 I will write a more formal review a bit later. This is the seventh vacumm tube amp I brought over the years and it is amazing!


----------



## Neogeo333

Try Mullards ECC32 and ECC34, your jaw will drop.  Much better than anything out there.


----------



## NOMBEDES

Has anyone upgraded the connection cables between the Little Dot Amps and the Source?   (I will run the Little Dot from my iMac)
   
  Thanks


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Has anyone upgraded the connection cables between the Little Dot Amps and the Source?   (I will run the Little Dot from my iMac)
> 
> Thanks


 
  What DAC are you using?  From your iMac's what - optical or usb?


----------



## NOMBEDES

Plan to connect the little dot to the iMac using the headphone jack on the back of the iMac.  Bad idea?


----------



## zenpunk

I think you are looking at the wrong type of amp for your need. The MKVI is a fully balanced design and need a balanced sourced and balanced headphones. Using it to amplify the signal from you iMac will be a waste of money.


----------



## mab1376

I use some spider brand cabled between my LittleDot MK IV SE and my Schiit Bifrost.
   
  Honestly don't notice any difference between these and the ones it came with.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Plan to connect the little dot to the iMac using the headphone jack on the back of the iMac.  Bad idea?


 
   
  Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> I think you are looking at the wrong type of amp for your need. The MKVI is a fully balanced design and need a balanced sourced and balanced headphones. Using it to amplify the signal from you iMac will be a waste of money.


 
   
  It's certainly not extremely necessary to have a 'balanced' DAC to match a 'balanced amp'. A balanced amplifier will still run balanced without a balanced source. You still get all 4 channels amplified. However, I would suggest an iMac has a low quality sound signal it is passing, that the Little Dot won't sound it's finest, and to be honest, it is very revealing of your source. If you have some extra cash, I'd suggest looking at getting a dedicated DAC to go with it. If you don't I would suggest thinking about it in the near future.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Plan to connect the little dot to the iMac using the headphone jack on the back of the iMac.  Bad idea?


 
   
   
  OK - so this wont work.  Coming out your iMacs headphone jack is ok.  However, you have to use an optical cable to do that.  
   
  Now lets put you in a pretty good entry level single ended DAC like this one:
  http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tubemagic_d2  and you can read about it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/470639/maverick-audio-tubemagic-d1-dac-amp-condensed-faq-and-info-thread  and here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/608393/maverick-audio-tubemagic-d2-dedicated-dac-review-faq-info-thread  
   
  Now if you want to stay with a Little Dot Amp - you might want to look here:  http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=816&sid=c3fc1b6cff869beee7f77d4d8578ba21  and if not Little Dot stuff how about some Schiit:  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=2
   
  Heck, you can even do DAC/Amp combo units like the Audio-GD stuff.   It's said to be good as well:  http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20audio-gd.htm
   
  What ever DAC you get, just make sure it has a optical input.
   
  I don't know what your budget is so this is really just entry level stuff.  If your budget is higher then you can get better stuff.  However, to make if work out of your iMac's headphone jack - your going to need a optical cable, a DAC, and then the headphone amp.
   
  This is just for starters..
   
  Darryl


----------



## NOMBEDES

Thank you.  Very good advice.   Anyone have a recommendation for a DAC?
  Which would go well with my projected setup?  (iMac = Little Dot = Seenheiser 700)   (oops did not see preproman post above)


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





nombedes said:


> Thank you.  Very good advice.   Anyone have a recommendation for a DAC?
> Which would go well with my projected setup?  (iMac = Little Dot = Seenheiser 700)   (oops did not see preproman post above)


 
   
  I could give you a slew of suggestions, but it's hard to be specific without knowing how much you're really willing to spend on the arrangement. Personally, I like the audio-gd dacs. They have a huge range of prices, so a general price range is important.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I like the audio-gd dacs.


 
   
   
  I'm sure they are some good Dac's.  However,  They are beyond ugly


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]For a low cost DAC I would recommend the Behringer SRC2496 and if you can get a good used one even better. The Behringer is also a DAC/ADC unit meaning that you digtalize a stereo analog signal and send to a recording device. The Behringer can handle three different digital inputs RCA, optical and XLR. It does not have a USB input. For the output it has balanced XLR’s AES and unbalanced RCA outputs are available and can drive them all the same time without degradation since all the outputs are isolated from each other. In my case my I am using the M Audio Audiophile 192 PCI Audio Interface S/PDIF output connected to my  Behringer SRC2496 which in turn using the AES output to my RDL HR-DAC1 DAC unit and using its balanced XLR’s to my Little Dot VI+.  Another advantage of the Behringer unit is that it has so many adjustments you can make with sampling rates and bit depth and others all on the front panel making it a tweeter delight for the price.  Behringer even makes a more advance unit called the DEC2496 if you are in room correction.[/size]


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I'm sure they are some good Dac's.  However,  They are beyond ugly


 
   
   
  I don't know about ugly as much as simple. Just black boxes really. However, no DAC I've heard compares. They are killer for the prices.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> However, no DAC I've heard compares.


 
   
   
  Well, that's cool.  However, I can't say the same.  For me it doesn't get good until the Reference 7.  All the others, well I have defiantly heard better.


----------



## john57

The one first impression I have of audio-gd products is the huge parts count which gives me the feeling is all of that [size=11pt]necessary[/size]?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Well, that's cool.  However, I can't say the same.  For me it doesn't get good until the Reference 7.  All the others, well I have defiantly heard better.


 
   
  Well certainly if you get the lower end DACs you can compare them to other DACs and find better. However in general, I have found them to be stellar at their price points, and the high end to be phenomenal. My Ref1 with a MKVI+ is such a wonderful pairing.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Well certainly if you get the lower end DACs you can compare them to other DACs and find better. However in general, I have found them to be stellar at their price points, and the high end to be phenomenal. My Ref1 with a MKVI+ is such a wonderful pairing.


 
   
   
  So have you tried any tube dacs with the MKVI+?  You think it will be too tubby?


----------



## john57

I had the [size=medium]California Audio Labs Sigma II but it was not anywhere as good with the DAC's that I am using now. It was not tubby.[/size]


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I had the C[size=medium]California Audio Labs Sigma II but it was not anywhere as good with the DAC's that I am using now. It was not tubby.[/size]


 
  What are you using now?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





preproman said:


> What are you using now?


 
  Currently using [size=small]RDL HR-DAC1 to drive the Little Dot VI+   [/size]
  [size=small]Check my post #254 for more details.[/size]


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Currently using [size=small]RDL HR-DAC1 to drive the Little Dot VI+   [/size]
> [size=small]Check my post #254 for more details.[/size]


 
   
   
  OK - sub 500 is a good price.


----------



## john57

I got my [size=medium]RDL HR-DAC1 [/size]from a A/V company that was going out of business. It was brand new at a good price. I just happen to have a 24v DC walmart supply at home to power it. The RDL is a tad more smoother as compared to the Behringer unit.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





john57 said:


> The one first impression I have of audio-gd products is the huge parts count which gives me the feeling is all of that [size=11pt]necessary[/size]?


 
  I have heard that many of these parts serve for processing the juice. But I am not an expert on electronics, so not sure about all a-g products.
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> My Ref1 with a MKVI+ is such a wonderful pairing.


 
  +1. My Ref1 + MKVIIIse and HD800 is a wonderful combo ... recently updated with MAC 3' Reference XLR ICs and wow! I believe that I need no more upgrades.


----------



## john57

I did not know that XLO made XLR interconnects since the Little Dot VI+ is my first tube balanced amp. I am using the XLO digital RCA interconnect between my PC and the DAC's. Nobody makes cables like XLO which has the wires running outside of the jacket instead of inside.


----------



## che15

preproman said:


> So have you tried any tube dacs with the MKVI+?  You think it will be too tubby?



Don't mean to butt in , bu. I read ur question and I wanted to let u know that I am 
Using my MKVI with a MHDT labs Balanced Havana DAC which is tube, and the 
Sound is amazing. I have tried it with my violectric v800 and my musical fidelity 
M1 DAC and it sounds great with all of them.


----------



## nkoulban

I just took delivery of a LD VIII SE.  Can anyone tell me if the gain on this amp is user adjustable?  Given that its designed for 300 and 600 Ohm dynamic cans it may not offer gain adjustment.
   
  I have just started burning it in and while I'm waiting for my balanced cables to be delivered I have listened to it single ended... and it sounds great.  
   
  I plan to do a bit of tube rolling with it and to connect my cans balanced.  My tube rolling plans are as follows:
   
  Power Tubes:Electro Harmonix 6H30PI gold pins for a richer sound  & Sovtek 6H30PI for a harder sound
   
  Preamp Tubes: Psvane 12AT7 ('cause I gots to know)


----------



## nkoulban

I have just taken delivery of my HD800s and balanced cables. This is the rig I have set up now is as follows:
   
  Source: Macbook Pro running Decibel with Apple lossless files. Optical out to a Balanced DAC LITE 83.
  Amp: Balanced LD MKVIIISE with Electro Harmonix Power Valves 6H30PI and PSVANE 12AT7s Driver valves
  Cans: HD800s with Headphone Lounge balanced cable
   
  This rig is delivering detail I have not heard in my recordings before, the imaging is very holographic, like I am in front of the performers. The tone is sweet with the top end harshness of the HD800s nicely tamed by the valves. I would go so far as to say that the sound is very analogue, yet there is so much detail.
   
  The PSVANEs are also amazing... once I took out the stock Electro Harmonix driver tubes and put these in the clarity and realism took a step up! Compared to my balanced Headroom Amp, the LD has really taken the level of detail, realism and imaging to a new level.
   
  I am totally blown away with what I am hearing with this rig... I am discovering my music collection all over again.  The LD VIIISE is performing way above my expectations, especially with the currently installed valves.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





nkoulban said:


> I have just taken delivery of my HD800s and balanced cables. This is the rig I have set up now is as follows:
> 
> Source: Macbook Pro running Decibel with Apple lossless files. Optical out to a Balanced DAC LITE 83.
> Amp: Balanced LD MKVIIISE with Electro Harmonix Power Valves 6H30PI and PSVANE 12AT7s Driver valves
> ...


 
   
   
  Amazing rig you've got going. Happy listening!!!


----------



## nkoulban

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Amazing rig you've got going. Happy listening!!!


 
   
  Thank you.


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]I received my Little Dot VI+ OTL fully balanced Class-A SEPP (single-ended push pull) OCL (output capacitor-less) circuit designed by Sword Yang. It uses solid state Rectification with a slow start system that involves the analog current front panel meters. The meter and output relays will kick in somewhat near the three-minute mark. The left meter will light up at power on but the right meter will be dark for a while and then very slowly light up, then the meter relay will kick in and only then will the analog needles move and very shortly after the output relay engages . The output relay is protected by a pair of fuses along with the main fuse. Since it is a push pull amp it has for each of the four power tubes an OPA445AP op-amp made by Burr-Brown for DC servo control which helps to have no DC at the output without the use of a coupling cap. It has internal switchable gain range options. The Little Dot VI+ has active cooling which is provided by a pair of 80mm computer case fans mounted on the bottom panel. I replace those fans with Enermax T.B. Silence fans with a metal Halo frame and full rubber gaskets for quiet and long life operation. Currently I am using a pair of RCA 6C8G tubes with adapters for the driver section and the stock RCA 6080 quad set for the power section. Both of my DACs are balanced and using the balanced output of the RDL to the Little Dot VI+ It is everything my previous amp was not. It is one of the more undervalued tube amps on the market. It is a very clear sounding amp, smooth and natural sounding, without the edginess in the high frequencies. It is more powerful and heavier than my previous amp. It has more stereo separation and much more holographic placement of musical instruments in the sound field. It does not have the richness of texture of my previous amp, but it is more natural and more in tune with what I hear in a live unamplified concert.[/size]


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





nkoulban said:


> I have just taken delivery of my HD800s and balanced cables. This is the rig I have set up now is as follows:
> 
> Source: Macbook Pro running Decibel with Apple lossless files. Optical out to a Balanced DAC LITE 83.
> Amp: Balanced LD MKVIIISE with Electro Harmonix Power Valves 6H30PI and PSVANE 12AT7s Driver valves
> ...


 
   
  Great to see this thread still going! I totally agree about the amazing detail you are experiencing as I get the same with the Mk VI+, but what really does it for me is the mid range with tubes that gives you a level of realism that really sends shivers down the spine, it's not just hearing all the detail but HEARING THE MUSIC and the emotion that goes with it! With the female voice, for example Lisa Stansfield, a favourite of mine she is alive and standing there right in front of you and you hear all the intonation, breath and so on. Also my HiFiMan HE-500's give me a level of realism that is higher again than the Audio Technica ATH AD2000's that I used to have. The exciting sound signature is still there but has gone up to max. The tube sound is so smooth and liquid without harshness and again I totally agree with you.
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]I received my Little Dot VI+ OTL fully balanced Class-A SEPP (single-ended push pull) OCL (output capacitor-less) circuit designed by Sword Yang. It uses solid state Rectification with a slow start system that involves the analog current front panel meters. The meter and output relays will kick in somewhat near the three-minute mark. The left meter will light up at power on but the right meter will be dark for a while and then very slowly light up, then the meter relay will kick in and only then will the analog needles move and very shortly after the output relay engages . The output relay is protected by a pair of fuses along with the main fuse. Since it is a push pull amp it has for each of the four power tubes an OPA445AP op-amp made by Burr-Brown for DC servo control which helps to have no DC at the output without the use of a coupling cap. It has internal switchable gain range options. The Little Dot VI+ has active cooling which is provided by a pair of 80mm computer case fans mounted on the bottom panel. I replace those fans with Enermax T.B. Silence fans with a metal Halo frame and full rubber gaskets for quiet and long life operation. Currently I am using a pair of RCA 6C8G tubes with adapters for the driver section and the stock RCA 6080 quad set for the power section. Both of my DACs are balanced and using the balanced output of the RDL to the Little Dot VI+ It is everything my previous amp was not. It is one of the more undervalued tube amps on the market. It is a very clear sounding amp, smooth and natural sounding, without the edginess in the high frequencies. It is more powerful and heavier than my previous amp. It has more stereo separation and much more holographic placement of musical instruments in the sound field. It does not have the richness of texture of my previous amp, but it is more natural and more in tune with what I hear in a live unamplified concert.[/size]


 
   
  Finally I agree with you as well that the amp is smooth and natural sounding. It is not overly tubey but is pleasantly analogue sounding. The tubey sound can be varied of course depending on your preferences and I like the RCA's too for that rich sound. That is why I love tubes because although you get the detail you  also get the musicality and realism of a concert performance. Listening to drums and cymbals every sound, reverberation and decay is present which heightens the listening enjoyment and the base of the HiFiMans is strong but balanced and detailed too. Electric guitars, particularly the stratocaster are stunning and then there is the voice........
   
  Keep up the good work!


----------



## rosgr63

Congratulations John, this is a great amp.
  Have you tried your Bendix yet?
   
  Which is the amp you are comparing it to?


----------



## john57

I have not tried my Bendix set yet. I am comparing it with the Glenn amp. The Little Dot VI+ is not my first Little Dot amp. The Glenn amp is better than my previous Little Dot but the VI+ takes the cake and is far better than my reference amp, Melos SHA gold.  It is easy to hear more channel separation and voices have more of a 3rd dimension sound quality, just sounds much more natural. I am happier with the Little Dot. I can use all the previous driver and power tubes that I was using with the Glenn amp except for the rectifier tubes of course. With the Little Dot I am using the 6C8G tubes for the first time and it is working very well and latter I may try the 6F8G tubes. Briefly I tried some of the 6SN7 tubes and those tubes worked much better in the Little Dot amp and even better than some of the 6SL7 tubes that the amp was originally designed with. I just fell not as much of a need to tube roll with the VI+. What I am doing now is DAC’s rolling. One of my balanced DAC’s right channel blew out while I was checking out different sampling rates. I am trying the balanced outputs of the M-Audio Audiophile 192 card in my computer for the first time rather than using the outboard DAC’s. The custom desktop computer that I built is designed with audio in mind. It is made to be very quiet with high performance CPU and uses a fan less graphic card in a special custom sound proof computer case. For power I am using the Seasonic X series power supply for the system. I just received the TRS to XLR cables today. I briefly lost one of the inverted balanced signals but got it back. I am now setting up the trim levels as we speak.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]It is one of the more undervalued tube amps on the market. [/size]


 
  yes but he has a defect:he is cheap and don´t care for audiophiles


----------



## pkjames

Hi guys, I have a LD mk 6, paired with hd600. Recently want to upgrade the can to Hifiman he500. As the 500 requires lot zf power I just wonder if the MK6 will be able to handle it well? Would I be able to get a significant upgrade in SQ?

James


----------



## zenpunk

The MK6 sounds great with the HE-500 and HE-6. Strangely, I never enjoyed the HD650 through the MK6+. That's the only headphone I tried that didn't sounded right to my ear with the MK6. That's maybe why LD designed the MKVIII for higher z cans. Although, I was surprised to find the T1 paired well with the MK6...


----------



## alota

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> Hi guys, I have a LD mk 6, paired with hd600. Recently want to upgrade the can to Hifiman he500. As the 500 requires lot zf power I just wonder if the MK6 will be able to handle it well? Would I be able to get a significant upgrade in SQ?
> James


 
  you have a gain selector in the amplifier.
  try


----------



## john57

[size=11pt][size=11pt]I just  converted my Fischer Audio FA-002W headphone woodies into balanced mode with a 4 pin XLR plug and the results are spectacular. I had a bit of trouble with a loose strand on the cable in spite of me pre tinned the wires and check with meter.  The synergy I have with the XDA-1, Little Dot VI+ and the balanced Fischer Audio FA-002W headphone is the best I have heard in decades. There is a dynamic lifeness I now hear with the headphones. My RDL DAC unit quit on me and just brought the Emotiva XDA-1 at closeout at the manufacture and it just works well with the Little Dot VI+ better than my previous two balanced DACs. [/size][/size]
   
  [size=11pt][size=11pt]I brought three pairs of 7F7 tubes with round plates with adapters since it sounds better than the 6SL7 tube that I was using. I also brought a pair of Sylvania 14F7 which are [size=small]very rugged [/size]built to use with Glenn voltage doublers.[/size][/size]
  [size=11pt][size=11pt]The Bendix tubes have finally stabilized and currently working quite fine in the amp. [/size][/size]
   
  [size=11pt][size=11pt][size=11pt][size=11pt]The HE-500 headphones has higher efficiency than HE-6 so I do not think it will be a issue using it with the Little Dot VI+[/size][/size][/size][/size]


----------



## pkjames

Thanks for your input guys. I was initially considering to upgrade the mk 6 to mk 8 and get a hd800 in the future but thinking if I can just get the he500 and keep the mk6 to achieve nice result then I may as well save myself a fortune. The only problem for living downunder is we don't even have a proper Hifiman reseller to audit the can!


----------



## kchan3101

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> Thanks for your input guys. I was initially considering to upgrade the mk 6 to mk 8 and get a hd800 in the future but thinking if I can just get the he500 and keep the mk6 to achieve nice result then I may as well save myself a fortune. The only problem for living downunder is we don't even have a proper Hifiman reseller to audit the can!


 
  If you come down to Melbourne, you can audition the hifiman's at Jaben. (They even have the HE-6) 
  They also have the HD800 so A B testing will be possbile.
  Cheap flights from Sydney to Melbourne these days.
   
  Just recently got my MK 6 back from David, (He tuned the High Gain setting to even higher!)
  Currently using the LCD 2.2, but will be taking the MK 6 to Jaben to audition the HE6.


----------



## preproman

Guys,
   
  How does this amp compare to the Woo WA22?


----------



## zenpunk

http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/45#post_7212661 
  and it can easily power the HE-6 unlike the WA22.


----------



## preproman

Powering the HE-6 is cool and all thanks for that.  I don't want it for that.  I want it for really good SQ that's on par or beyond the WA22
   
  I have an HE-6 rig already.
   
  What's some SQ impressions that you guys may have?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





che15 said:


> MKVI and we compared it to the wa22 , the balancing act and wa6 SE and it sounded much better than all of them. It is just an amazing sounding unit and I think it is worth the headaches.


 
   
   
  Better than the ECBA - could this be true or hype?  Are all the issues fixed on these units?


----------



## zenpunk

A couple of other headfiers (can't remember who)  reported the LD was quite a bit better than the  WA22. I havent heard the BA or WA22 but the Little Dot really sound  amazing: fast, dynamic and detailed without sounding etched. The stock version is very good but you have to factor in better tubes to take it to the next level of transparancy. You will also need to replace the fans with quiet ones.


----------



## preproman

O I C
   
  Is replacing the fas easy?  What's the recommend fans to use?
   
  What's a list of tubes that the majority of the users of this amp like?


----------



## zenpunk

Changing the fans is straightforward and only takes 10mn. The amp can be run without fans if where you live doesn't get too hot but for longevity sake I picked up some low speed (900RPM) 80mm ones and they are absolutely silent. The best tubes IMO are 5998/7236 (which are quite expensive) and you can use any 6SL7/6SN7 you like. I was impressed by the LD with the stock tubes but the 5998 really transformed it (less "tubey" but more transparent) and the amp is more effficient and runs a lot cooler.
  Why are you asking anyway?? you have a beta and a GS-X on the way


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





kchan3101 said:


> If you come down to Melbourne, you can audition the hifiman's at Jaben. (They even have the HE-6)
> They also have the HD800 so A B testing will be possbile.
> Cheap flights from Sydney to Melbourne these days.
> 
> ...


 
  Argh, wife would kill me if i tell her i am off to melb just listen to a pair of cans! Then again, if I convince her that we are going for a weekend, my wallet will get ruined  LOL
 That said, I'd never expected the MK VI can deliver 8W of power to drive the HE6, that's partly the recent I am looking at HE500 just for the sake of only 1W is required. Looking forward to hear what you think about the MK6 driving HE6 and HE500 (if you have a chance to listen to both).
   
  Cheers,
  James


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





preproman said:


> O I C
> 
> Is replacing the fas easy?  What's the recommend fans to use?
> 
> What's a list of tubes that the majority of the users of this amp like?


 
  I replaced mine with a pair of Antect fans (back in 08) with blue LED built in, pretty fancy stuff when you look at it at night. The fans also come with a speed switch so you can adjust accordingly. I would suggest Arctic fans and alike. One step further is that you can custom make a timber rack for the MK6 (and you source), and get rid of the bottom cover completely; with the rack properly made, you can use a giant 200mm+ fan sitting below the MK6, thats less than 20db of noise, which will also enable you modding the coupling CAPs of the LD6 to PIOs. This is a bit hard to achieve with stock fans as the big oil caps will touch the stock fans. 
   
  tube wise, people report RCA 6AS7 is a good step up of the power tubes. I use RCA5691 3 mica for driver and found it goes pretty well with my HD600.


----------



## Alexkahn

post of k-on ?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





> riginally Posted by *pkjames* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> tube wise, people report RCA 6AS7 is a good step up of the power tubes. I use RCA5691 3 mica for driver and found it goes pretty well with my HD600.


 
  6AS7 RCA were the tubes that David send me.


----------



## pkjames

That's nice. I only got a setof 6080wc and one was broke after few hours. Bad luck!


----------



## alota

i prefer 6AS7 but the difference with 6080 is not big
  in the preamplifier section i liked the tungsol nos 6SU7GT


----------



## rosgr63

Ragazzo cattivo,
   
  I thought you did not like tubes!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## alota

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Ragazzo cattivo,
> 
> I thought you did not like tubes!!!!!!!!!!


 
  i don´t
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  my ss amplifier is the best in the world!!!!


----------



## rosgr63

It is indeed.
   
  But how can you ignore a nice set of Bendix 6080's?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> It is indeed.
> 
> But how can you ignore a nice set of Bendix 6080's?


 
  you have reason and i was really curious about this tubes.
  but when you told me relatively this bendix i sold my little-dot.
  but i have a friend with several otl amps and bendix tubes


----------



## john57

I am currently using the Bendix Red Bank 6080 tubes not the Chatham version you sometimes see. Since I paid decent money for the Bendix, I decided to put aside the  RCA's  for a latter time. I even have the version with slotted plate working in my VI+.  I have other sets like the rare NOS GE 6AS7's with bright bottom copper radiators. A set of 6080 Gammatron tubes perfectly printed by Heintz and Kaufman in their original boxes.  A quad set of NOS Chatham 6080 very much alike of the TS version. I have other sets and quite content at this point. I am also trying out a pair of Equator D5 studio monitors driven by my Little dot VI+.


----------



## rosgr63

Nice tubes John.
   
  Which do you prefer best?


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> Hi guys, I have a LD mk 6, paired with hd600. Recently want to upgrade the can to Hifiman he500. As the 500 requires lot zf power I just wonder if the MK6 will be able to handle it well? Would I be able to get a significant upgrade in SQ?
> James


 
  I've got this combo - I refer you to my previous comments in this thread, if you do a search you will find it! I think I've found the perfect set up, I went for the HE500's and they're very easy to drive even on the default gain setting. The sound is very musical - possibly unlike the HE6's, which I haven't heard, - at least how I imagine listening to cans with that much detail, which might be quite dry. That couldn't be said of the HE500's. IMO these are about as good as it gets, they don't have any nasties like changes in SQ between differing frequencies, the whole thing is just one glorious progression and totally effortless. I like the Tung Sol 6sl7 types to bring out the base detail and treble magic, anything better than these will probably be very expensive! One thing - I prefer the copper cable rather than the standard silver one. If you ask when you purchase the hifimans they will do a balanced connector on this cable for you. I don't find the fan noise audible when listening through a balanced connector. Finally, there is just no comparison with the HD600's which sound incredibly boring compared to the excitement you get when listening through the HE500's which sound totally realistic to me, especially  when listening to good quality live recordings.


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> I've got this combo - I refer you to my previous comments in this thread, if you do a search you will find it! I think I've found the perfect set up, I went for the HE500's and they're very easy to drive even on the default gain setting. The sound is very musical - possibly unlike the HE6's, which I haven't heard, - at least how I imagine listening to cans with that much detail, which might be quite dry. That couldn't be said of the HE500's. IMO these are about as good as it gets, they don't have any nasties like changes in SQ between differing frequencies, the whole thing is just one glorious progression and totally effortless. I like the Tung Sol 6sl7 types to bring out the base detail and treble magic, anything better than these will probably be very expensive! One thing - I prefer the copper cable rather than the standard silver one. If you ask when you purchase the hifimans they will do a balanced connector on this cable for you. I don't find the fan noise audible when listening through a balanced connector. Finally, there is just no comparison with the HD600's which sound incredibly boring compared to the excitement you get when listening through the HE500's which sound totally realistic to me, especially  when listening to good quality live recordings.


 
  thanks for the comment, this is exactly what I wanted to hear! I know HE500 is a good pair of cans and really just need to confirm if it pairs with MK6 well enough, and now I have the confirmation. Thanks very much, $$ saving time.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> Thanks for your input guys. I was initially considering to upgrade the mk 6 to mk 8 and get a hd800 in the future but thinking if I can just get the he500 and keep the mk6 to achieve nice result then I may as well save myself a fortune. The only problem for living downunder is we don't even have a proper Hifiman reseller to audit the can!


 
  Regarding the HD800, from what I found when I was looking into this, virtually the only thing that would be better than the HE500 would be soundstage, and you would lose the excitement of the up front presentation and the beautiful smooth tonality of the HE500 as I've heard reports that the tone of the HD800 is also slightly harsher, especially treble. The tradeoff would therefore be soundstage versus excitement because the two are mutually exclusive - not that the hifimans don't have a soundstage - on the contrary they do have a good, realistic one but not the very large, airy, distant, outside the headphones type of soundstage that I've heard mention of in all the reports. You take your pick. I have not heard the HD800 I hasten to add but I'm just quoting reports on the HD800 to save you time. I'm glad I went for the hifiman!


----------



## pkjames

baronbeehive said:


> Regarding the HD800, from what I found when I was looking into this, virtually the only thing that would be better than the HE500 would be soundstage, and you would lose the excitement of the up front presentation and the beautiful smooth tonality of the HE500 as I've heard reports that the tone of the HD800 is also slightly harsher, especially treble. The tradeoff would therefore be soundstage versus excitement because the two are mutually exclusive - not that the hifimans don't have a soundstage - on the contrary they do have a good, realistic one but not the very large, airy, distant, outside the headphones type of soundstage that I've heard mention of in all the reports. You take your pick. I have not heard the HD800 I hasten to add but I'm just quoting reports on the HD800 to save you time. I'm glad I went for the hifiman!




Tks for the advice. From my reading, people also suggest that the new MK 8 is a better match for the hd800, and taking buying and selling into account, it would cost a lot more if I go for the HD800 route. So going the he500 is an obvious choice now


----------



## seaice

I have never listened to any Hifimans but Senn HD800 + LD MKVIIIse is an incredible combo that I can really recommend


----------



## baronbeehive

Someone better qualified than me can comment but I'm pretty sure that you could run the HD800 with the Mk VI+ at a pinch, I've run my HD600's on it without any problems on the default low gain setting even.


----------



## pkjames

vi has much higher output than viii, but i think viii is designed to run at lower current to drive those high impedance cans hence cooler; where as vi was originally designed for high current / power consumption cans like the KK. In other words, VIII is more refined where VI delivers a lot more punch.


----------



## pkjames

The only problem for VI that bothers me is the heat, so I am about to do a massive fan mod on the VI to run it as silent and cool as possible, will post pic accordingly. basically will get rid of the base plate and move the fan outside, so that i can run a giant fan at much lower speed. I will  also replace the polypropylene coupling caps to PIOs!


----------



## zenpunk

Changing the tubes to 5998/7236 helps the amp run cooler with a lower bias. The transparency and overall gain also increase (running my HE-6 on low gain). I only have two 900rpm fans running and the amp only just get warm  after being on for hours.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> (running my HE-6 on low gain).


 
   
   
  Why on low gain with the HE-6?


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> vi has much higher output than viii, but i think viii is designed to run at lower current to drive those high impedance cans hence cooler; where as vi was originally designed for high current / power consumption cans like the KK. In other words, VIII is more refined where VI delivers a lot more punch.


 
   
  That's a similar argument for not using the 6sn7's in place of the 6sl7's which shouldn't run well on the mkvi, the gain is that much less, however they are better apparently, although I've not been able to detect much difference in SQ. Maybe the amp runs closer to peak efficiency on lower gain as you can max it out better, not that I'm anywhere near max, I don't know.
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Why on low gain with the HE-6?


 
   
  That's what I wondered because I used low gain with my HD600's, and still I couldn't max out the mkvi. I assumed it was not to do with power requirements but with having adequate headroom for better SQ with the higher impedance cans because they could be driven quite adequately on low gain, again maybe others who know more could reply. I know that lower current is compatible with higher impedance but if such cans can be powered well on the mkvi why do you need the low current mkviii for improved SQ? I understood that only speaker amps could power the HE6, but that is apparently not the case.


----------



## zenpunk

With stock tubes I had to use the high gain but since getting those TS 5998 I have switched back and forth and prefer them on  low gain, which  usualy mean  less distortion. Normal volume on low gain is usually around 1-2 o'clock (with the HE-6), which give more room and more precise volume adjustment and is also said to be  the sweet spot electrically  for taper pot such as Alps. I can also use all my other cans


----------



## pkjames

i popped in a pair of tung-sol 6SL7GT (which happen to sit nicely wrapped in my tube box!) into the MK6 today, the bass is in deed notably stronger than RCA 5691 and Sylvania 6SL7GT. And they are still NOS, so I would think some burn in and they will truly shine!


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> i popped in a pair of tung-sol 6SL7GT (which happen to sit nicely wrapped in my tube box!) into the MK6 today, the bass is in deed notably stronger than RCA 5691 and Sylvania 6SL7GT. And they are still NOS, so I would think some burn in and they will truly shine!


 
  Great! These are my favourites at the moment - they are detailed yet have a nice silkyness to them that lets you know you  are listening on tubes still. I especially like the lightness of the treble and vocals on midrange are also good, and the base on the hifimans is so realistic and punchy without being overpowering, so they  get my vote as the best all round tube. I used to prefer RCA's but with the full hifiman sound I think the Tungsols go better, whereas they were slightly thin with my old Audio Technica's. Also the soundstage draws you in nicely. I always burn mine in for at least 50 hours to make sure they are sounding nice and smooth. As I said to go better I think you are talking hundreds of dollars for tubes, for example the Shuguang Treasures which I'm not sure work properly on the mkvi anyway due to their size, not to mention different power tubes. So I've stopped tube rolling pretty much as the really rare tubes are virtually unobtainable and I'm happy with the set up now anyway which for the price is unbeatable. I did try some Brimars a while ago, though not with the hifimans and I still prefer the Tung sols. What cans have you got at the moment?


----------



## preproman

What's the best set of tubes to pair with the HD800s?  I'm talking driver and power tubes.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





preproman said:


> What's the best set of tubes to pair with the HD800s?  I'm talking driver and power tubes.


 
  in my opinon Hd-800 with the MK VI is a bad marriage regardless the tubes.
  i like this combo only with acoustic jazz


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





alota said:


> in my opinon Hd-800 with the MK VI is a bad marriage regardless the tubes.
> i like this combo only with acoustic jazz


 
   
   
  Really - even on low gain?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Really - even on low gain?


 
  the low gain is good for the hd-800.
  but remember: is just my opinion, probably with another source sound better


----------



## pkjames

baronbeehive said:


> Great! These are my favourites at the moment - they are detailed yet have a nice silkyness to them that lets you know you  are listening on tubes still. I especially like the lightness of the treble and vocals on midrange are also good, and the base on the hifimans is so realistic and punchy without being overpowering, so they  get my vote as the best all round tube. I used to prefer RCA's but with the full hifiman sound I think the Tungsols go better, whereas they were slightly thin with my old Audio Technica's. Also the soundstage draws you in nicely. I always burn mine in for at least 50 hours to make sure they are sounding nice and smooth. As I said to go better I think you are talking hundreds of dollars for tubes, for example the Shuguang Treasures which I'm not sure work properly on the mkvi anyway due to their size, not to mention different power tubes. So I've stopped tube rolling pretty much as the really rare tubes are virtually unobtainable and I'm happy with the set up now anyway which for the price is unbeatable. I did try some Brimars a while ago, though not with the hifimans and I still prefer the Tung sols. What cans have you got at the moment?


 
  even with just very light burn in, the tubes do sound amazing! thanks for the TS tip  i think this is it in terms of tube rolling for a while. I will throw in a few russian PIOs for the MK 6 but before that I have to custom build a rack for the MK6 so that a better fan can be installed (as the big PIOs).
   
  for now, I am using a pair of HD600, and this is the reason I started asking about opinions on HE500s as it is on my very short list of next cans purchase.


----------



## john57

I also have tried the NU smoke glass JAN CNU 6SL7GT  and they were very mellow sounding. Not quite what I wanted to use at this point. Currently still using the 7F7 tubes and they are great.


----------



## Neogeo333

Just an update with MK6+ and power tube, it seems 6336B will work with this amp.  Many said that it would not work but I have like 10+ hours with them and they sound authorative.  Still need more time since they are NOS.


----------



## john57

6336B takes the place of two or three 6AS7 for power output. The real problem with the 6336B is that the heater current is very high at 5 amps each  and you are talking about four tubes. This will overload the VI+ transformer in time and eventually burn out the amp.  For reference the 6080WB tubes have 2.5 amps for the heater.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I also have tried the NU smoke glass JAN CNU 6SL7GT  and they were very mellow sounding. Not quite what I wanted to use at this point. Currently still using the 7F7 tubes and they are great.


 
  What brand of 7F7 do you use and what difference does it make to the sound? I do like the more mellow sound but am looking in the more distant future to check out the Silvania 7236's to try a clearer sharper sound. I've tried the tungsol 7236 but don't like them, I find them a bit too neutral and analytic sounding.


----------



## john57

I am using the Raytheon round plates 7F7 and they are getting harder to fine. The 7F7 have a sort of dynamic brightness that match more on what I will hear at a concert. I also have a full box of good 7N7 tubes that I got at a good price to yet try. I did not like the tungsol 7236 in my previous amp as being too thin and analytic sounding. The Sylvania 7236's do look somewhat like the 6080 tubes with parallel plates. The TS5998 are getting too expensive for me to try. The sharpest tubes that I tried were the 6080WC tubes by Phillips/ Sylvania. They were a bit too sharp in the previous amp but may work in the Little Dot Vi+ but I am not in a big hurry to check on this. I know that some people do not like the 6080WC tubes but I just have the feeling that they may work well in the Little Dot and they are not too expensive either.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am using the Raytheon round plates 7F7 and they are getting harder to fine. The 7F7 have a sort of dynamic brightness that match more on what I will hear at a concert. I also have a full box of good 7N7 tubes that I got at a good price to yet try. I did not like the tungsol 7236 in my previous amp as being too thin and analytic sounding. The Silvania 7236's do look somewhat like the 6080 tubes with parallel plates. The TS5998 are getting too expensive for me to try. The sharpest tubes that I tried were the 6080WC tubes by Phillips/ Sylvania. They were a bit too sharp in the previous amp but may work in the Little Dot Vi+ but I am not in a big hurry to check on this. I know that some people do not like the 6080WC tubes but I just have the feeling that they may work well in the Little Dot and they are not too expensive either.


 
  Thanks thats interesting. I also like the raytheon 6sn7gt's but they didn't offer much over the others I like but they have a nice dynamic, clear sound. From what I can gather from others there isn't much difference between the 6080's and the 6as7g's, and the TS5998's are similar to the 7236's which are computer uprated 5998's so I can't see that the latter can be better, or much different. The Sylvania's are sharper in general with the 6sn7w's being regarded as the best with an extended treble and generally good detail and soundstage and I would think would be closest to that bright sound that you like. I liken their sound more to solid state type sound which is why I don't generally go for them. The reason I would like to try the sylvania power tubes is that they may just sharpen up the mellow tung sol sound slightly withough losing their beatiful smooth quality! Incidently regarding "mellow" I don't go for the ultra mellow of, for example mullards because all the detail tends to get swamped out. This is also why I didn't go for the Brimars although they did have good detail as well.
   
  Incidently has anyone tried comparing the tung sol 6sl7 round plate with the tung sol 6sn7 round plates as a matter of interest?


----------



## john57

I think that there is some confusion here. The TS5998 tubes do not even look the same as compared to the two plate’s versions that you can get with the 7236 tubes. The plate’s structures are very different. The TS5998 I am talking about have dominos like plates with round rivets on the plates. The TS7236 has plates that are shaped into a rectangular looking box. The Sylvania 7236 has parallel plates very much like the standard 6AS7/6080 tubes. There is another version of the 5998 tube called 5998A which does look like the Sylvania 7236 with the parallel plates.


----------



## baronbeehive

Thanks for pointing out the differences in structure which have a bearing on SQ. This does point to the dangers of generalizing about tube qualities. The 7236 is a  *computer* rated *5998A*, and the *7236* and *5998A* are *uprated* from *5998* according to Tubeworld, and others. My comments refer to SQ and even here there are inconsistancies, for example the 6080 and 6AS7G's which are structurally the same apart from bottle shape should sound the same but some are convinced that they can detect differences. When dealing with tube technology it is possible that no 2 tubes sound the same anyway!
   
  I have tried the tung sol 6sl7's and 6sn7's and, from memory only I couldn't remember any difference. The structure is the same but the operating characteristics are not. My memory is however coloured by the fact that I heard the 6sn7 first and was blown away by them so that when I came to try the 6sl7's the "wow factor" was not there in the same way. I just wondered if anybody else had tried them and what they thought.


----------



## john57

Which TS 6SN7 tube did you like? There were triangle plates or the dark glass round plates? I have a pair of Radiocoin 12SN7 tubes which are very much like the TS dark glass round plates in a 12v version.


----------



## baronbeehive

I didn't like the triangular plates - it was the more sought after round plate black glass type. They have an indefinable magical quality as well as good detail and whereas others such as Brimar 6sn7 clear glass oval plates are good in some respects such as mid range punch they did not have the balance of the tung sols which I thought was very musical. Even the RCA's have this balance over the frequency spectrum but they are not as defined. And speaking of the RCA's the 6sl7's appear to be of similar construction to the round plate tung sols so I wonder about their SQ too. I'm not really into more tube rolling but am looking for warmth, especially for mid range vocals and a little more clarity but retaining that tung sol magic, which is why I would like to try the Sylvania power tubes because I think the power tubes set the scene for whatever driver tubes you have.  I think the tung sols are great all round tubes but of course I'm curious about the Bendix's and the Shugang's of this world but as I said I don't really want the solid state sound - if I wanted that I would have got an ss amp. We are never satisfied are we!


----------



## rosgr63

I would like to point out the TS 6SL7 BGRP come in grey and black plate versions.
   
  The shape of the glass and placing/spacing of elements affects the sound.
   
  As wired as it sounds I have been able to hear differences from different batches of the same tube.
  A strong testing tube may sound different from a weak one.


----------



## baronbeehive

Did I say no more tube rollling. I'm a bit confused over the Bendix 6080's some clearly like them, even over the 5998's which are ridiculously expensive, and some appear not to rate them at all. What does anyone think of, say, the Bendix 6080wb's compared to 5998's 5998a's or 6as7g's please?


----------



## john57

In my case the Bendix was just slightly sharper and punchier than the RCA 6AS7 but not to any large extent. In my previous tube amp the difference was greater. I just got back from RMAF.


----------



## che15

John , how would u compare the sound of the w7 and MKVI ?


----------



## john57

[size=medium]The MKVI is still going to be the better amp. [/size]
  [size=medium]However the Fosgate Signature Tube amp which is a Hybrid like the ALO PanAm sounds similar to the W7 provided you turn off all the signal processing. The ALO PanAm is much smaller and lighter than the W7 but I did not get a chance to hear it. I listen to the LCD3 headphones and still do not like them. The bass and midrange are too muddy for my ears and not enough definition. The HE-500 is brighter than the LCD3 but it is too much in your face sound. The singer just sounds too close and with very little soundstage as compared to the LCD3.  I reaffirm that the Byers T70 is still a very good headphone for my needs and the T1 again has the similar house sound. I still find that the HD800 falls short with a peak in the highs and I find the same issue with the new HD700.  Last year the Woo WA5-LE was my favorite at the show. This year it turn out something I least expected. The new Liquid Glass prototype by Cavalli Audio. The Liquid Glass is far better than the last year Liquid Fire and much heavier. It is also a tube roller dream. It has two sets of sockets depending on what tubes you wanted to use. It has heater switches for 6 or 12v and different high plates voltages you can use. It can use 9 pin tube or the 8-pin Octal but not both at the same time. I spoke with Dr. Alex Cavalli and he explains what changes he will make with the final production unit and the one problem that developed with the unit. He is a straight forward guy. I was using the HE-6 at first I was a bit biased against the HE-6 because it is a very power hungry phone and that should not be the reason that it is better. The HE-6 and the Liquid Glass combination is the best I have heard ever and beats some of the Stax setups. The sound is very realistic and natural. The HE-6 with the Liquid Glass amp has far greater detail and definition as compared to the LCD3. That was a big surprise and even the HD800 sounds better with this amp but still far outclass by the HE-6 headphones.  That is my mini review of my time at the RMAF. The Little DotVi+ still hold its own with the value in its price class and still very enjoyable to have even comparing it to the $ 3,750 Liquid Glass. [/size]


----------



## rosgr63

Nice review, thanks John.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for that, that's what I thought but others have said the opposite hence the confusion! Looks like a toss up between that and the Sylvania 7236's then to brighten up the sound slightly. Incidently when I mentioned the tung sol 6sl7's I meant 6sl7 types as I started off by saying. There have been so many comments on SQ before I didn't think it necessary to be less generic although I can if anyone wants, I have heard the 6su7gty's as well.
   
  I assume you don't mean Royal Malaysian Air Force! Your comments on what you saw there are very interesting. You are quite right when you say that the HE500's have a very upfront presentation and that's what I mean when I said they are very exciting to listen to. They bring out all the emotion in the music in a way that the HD600's, that I used to have, don't. However they are not as up front as my old Audio Technica ATH AD2000's so I can definately live with them. They are much more even throughout the frequency spectrum, whereas the AD2000's were very midrange heavy. Also the soundstage is more than good to me, given its upfront position of all the instruments. I find it realistic, not artificial in any way. This does pose an interesting problem because you feel like you are onstage with the band and although you can place them in their relative positions you don't know if, for example the singer is facing you and therefore singing to you or facing out to the audience and therefore facing away from you which takes a bit of getting used to.
   
  Also you say that you find it fairly bright sounding. I too was surprised to find this on first hearing it. However HiFiMan's customer service was excellent. They sent me a copper cable and fitted a balanced connector all free of charge. When I tried it the sound changed beyond belief, whereas it was initially very bright, almost walkman like, it became beautiful and liquid sounding and much fuller. I don't think the silver cable went very well with it frankly but I assume they were trying to push the detailed quality of its sound to rival the HE6 more.
   
  Finally I find it surprising that you still find the mkvi so good given that it is at the value end of the range compared to others. I don't understand why LD is no longer flavour of the month like it was a few years ago given it still seems to be developing its product range nicely.


----------



## pkjames

the latest addon from LD is an asynchronous usb interface. Very similar to the STELLO U3, based on XMOS chip and even comes with I2S output (which the STELLOS doesn't). Of course the price also represents the LD value! I think they are in the final production stage and should come out  very soon.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I am currently using the Bendix Red Bank 6080 tubes not the Chatham version you sometimes see. Since I paid decent money for the Bendix, I decided to put aside the  RCA's  for a latter time. I even have the version with slotted plate working in my VI+.  I have other sets like the rare NOS GE 6AS7's with bright bottom copper radiators. A set of 6080 Gammatron tubes perfectly printed by Heintz and Kaufman in their original boxes.  A quad set of NOS Chatham 6080 very much alike of the TS version. I have other sets and quite content at this point. I am also trying out a pair of Equator D5 studio monitors driven by my Little dot VI+.


 
  Looking back over previous posts I came across this which I missed before. I gave up trying to find any speakers to go with the mkvi and ended up getting a Nuforce amp to power some booskshelf speakers on an occasional basis, mainly for visitors. I've just looked up the equator d5 and I see it's 103 db sensitivity, I couldn't find any that sensitive at the time I was looking, so I gave up thinking that it would be impossible using the mkvi to drive speakers adequately. Also I couldn't figure out how to connect the mkvi to speakers.


----------



## baronbeehive

Oh I've just noticed they are active speakers, which I didn't want. Nevertheless I would be interested in what you thought.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





john57 said:


> The Little DotVi+ still hold its own with the value in its price class and still very enjoyable to have even comparing it to the $ 3,750 Liquid Glass.


 
   
  john57,
   
  This is a very good and informative post.  I'm looking to get into the tube amps but don't want to pay Liquid Fire / Glass prices.
   
  How far behind would you say the LD MKVI+ is compared to the Liquid (X) amps?  Also the Woo WA22?


----------



## john57

There is also the GE 6SL7 round silver plates tube that are another option.
  Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> I would like to point out the TS 6SL7 BGRP come in grey and black plate versions.
> 
> The shape of the glass and placing/spacing of elements affects the sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## john57

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Oh I've just noticed they are active speakers, which I didn't want. Nevertheless I would be interested in what you thought.


 
   
  [size=medium]Nothing wrong with using active speakers with a tube amp. [/size]
  [size=medium]The little Dot VI+ was not really designed to drive speakers on its own. If the Little Dot VI+ had output transformers it would have more watts at the output but you still are limited to the more efficient speakers. Using output transformers will change the SQ of the amp which was not part of the design parameters of the Little Dot. The active speakers I am using are near field monitors designed for making music and to compare mixes in a studio. Near field monitors are designed to sound best up close to the speakers as compared to Hi-Fi speakers which tend to sound better at a greater distance.  [/size]
  [size=medium]I am using two sets of monitors the Tannoy 501A and the Equator D5. With active speaker the amps are tailored to drivers and some will use electronic crossover since many will use a separate amp for the tweeter and for the woofer. The Equator D5 is my latest and it is a coaxial speaker which makes it smaller and lighter than the Tannoy 501A but both basically have the same size tweeter and woofer. The D5 has heavy DSP in the amp and each D5 unit has PS/2 like calibration port on the back to calibrate the coaxial driver at the factory.  Using DSP allows you to fine tune the drivers in ways that you cannot do with a separate stereo power amp. The Equator Q series even comes with software that modifies the sound properties not only to flatten the frequency response but also to avoid sound collisions with the drivers and reflections of the cabinet. These parameters are stored in the speakers themselves. I hope that I was able to explain some advantages of using active monitors. I have a 60 day trial with the D5 from the company and like the Little Dot VI+ outstanding value for the money. [/size]


----------



## baronbeehive

Thanks again john57 for your explanation. When I initially looked at the mkvi spec it occurred to me that there might just be enough power output to drive speakers, as the Nuforce I mentioned does, though that proved fruitless for the reasons you give. Your explanation of the the modification of frequency responses through software is an interesting new approach to perfecting the development of speaker technology now as well as other approaches to their design such as transmission line theory and such like. Interesting times.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





preproman said:


> john57,
> 
> This is a very good and informative post.  I'm looking to get into the tube amps but don't want to pay Liquid Fire / Glass prices.
> 
> How far behind would you say the LD MKVI+ is compared to the Liquid (X) amps?  Also the Woo WA22?


 
   
  [size=medium] [/size]

 [size=medium][size=medium]First I wanted to say that all the amps mention have different design goals.  The Cavalli Liquid amps use high output solid state buffers for the output. The tubes never see the output just drive the buffers and the buffers drive the headphones. The glass version let more of the tubes sound to come thru as compared to the fire version. The Cavalli, like the fire version will have the most power but still only a headphone amp and single ended only with no other outputs except for the headphone jacks at the front. The glass version has a RCA loop output and may have a pre-amp output. The Little Dot have ¼ single end output, a pair of 3 pin XLR outputs and a 4pin XLR on the front. The Little Dot VI+ version which I have also have a pair of RCA inputs and a pair of 3 pin XLR inputs which my Emotiva XDR-1 balanced outputs are connected to. All outputs on the Little Dot go thru the tubes and controlled by the main volume pot on the front. That is a big advantage of the Little Dot has over the Cavalli amp since I am using studio monitors with balanced inputs and I still get the tubes on the Little Dot driving the monitors directly. It is not as easy to get any of the Cavalli amps to easily connect to my monitors as well as the Little Dot can. I just connect the XLR 3 pin outputs which is like a pre-amp outputs to the monitors full time and when I wanted to use the monitors I simply turn on the power to the monitors by using a power controller. My Little Dot is just as happy to have both headphones and monitors connected with only one is in use. The WA22 has the requirement of needing balanced inputs connected in order to have full use of the tubes. The output of the WA22 have a three wire arrangement at the outputs meaning that the single ended outputs will sound the same as the balanced outputs where on the Little Dot has the four wire arrangement and the 4 pin XLR output is just fantastic with my converted balanced Fisher FA-002W headphones. For my single ended headphones I use a short headphone cable Extension from the back to the front to make it easier for me to switch headphones leaving the extension connected.   The Little Dot is still bit stronger in my opinion than the W22 but the better comparison is the WA5LE somewhat closer to the Little Dot power wise. The WA5LE is very good and has just a bit tiny glassy sounding just a bit brittle at the upper midrange giving a bit more airy sound but could just be tube differences. The Little Dot just strikes me a bit more natural in the midrange. The WA5LE is still limited as far as pre-amps outputs unless you c[/size][size=medium]onvince woo to add the pre-amp outputs. [/size][/size]


----------



## rosgr63

John are the Cavalli Liquid series hybrid?
   
  preproman I think you'll be very happy with an LD or one of Glenn's(2359glenn) amps, if you are looking for a good value for money.


----------



## john57

Yes the Cavalli's liquid series are hybrids. Liquid fire uses Mosfets to drive the outputs. I did some more checking and the Liquid Glass delivers 5 watts into 50 ohms and my Little Dot VI+  all tube OTL DC coupled output delivers 5 watts into 120 ohms not a huge difference considering how expensive Cavalli amps are.
  I wanted to say again that I am very happy with my my Little Dot VI+. There are still users here that states that they are happy with the HE-6 headphones with the Litlle Dot VI+. Great headphones I stand corrected.


----------



## pkjames

so, i have completed my ultimate _(budget)_ LD MK VI mod.
   
  Basically I made a rack that suites the MK 6.

   
   
  At the level where the MK 6 sits, added a giant 230mm BitFenix fan that runs @ 900rpm with < 20db noise.

   
  This is how the rack looks after sanding to 320grit and linseed oil applied.

   
  Then I changed most of the audio path cable to 22AWG OCC cable, the only bit that I didn't bother touching was the small section from the power tubes to the output XLR sockets. The PCB has to be taken out before replacing this particular section of cable, which I found a bit too complicated (I did try). All other parts are replaced.

   
   
  I also replaced the 4 green WIMA coupling cap to russian K40Y PIOs, 0.33uF + 0.015uF.

   
  So now effectively I have a huge fan keeping the MK6 cool with no audible noise, yet I have enough space to throw in a few big PIOs!
   
  Here is the system in action.

   
   
  OVERALL cost breakdown:
  1.5 meter 22AWG OCC cable, unknown brand ($8ish)
  4x 0.33uF + 4x0.015uF PIOs  ($5 + shipping)
  random timber offcut (FREE)
  a Saturday! 
  =====================
  HAPPINESS: PRICELESS


----------



## rosgr63

Great job, well done!


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Great job, well done!


 
  Tks very much 
   
   
  Also want to add that, upon first listen after the mod, I found the system presents quite a bit more detail than pre-mod, don't know if it is due to the recable or cap mod or both! (I am guessing both, as LD factory upgrade option includes recabling with high grade silver cable and M-CAP gold foil caps) I am able to hear details that I have previously fail to notice. The improvement is beyond my initial expectation so I am really happy.
  The 0.33uF value is recommended by Mr. sword_yang himself. I will do more burn in then report back. 
  James


----------



## baronbeehive

That looks really nice pkjames!!! I'm now rather envious about the improvements in SQ as well as the look.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Great job, well done!


 
  X2!
  and the sound with new cable and cap´s?


----------



## zenpunk

Nice work. What are those caps for?. It is my understanding that there is no coupling caps in the signal path anyway so not sure how  those would affect the sound?


----------



## pkjames

They are the 4 caps to be replaced if you ask for a mod upgrade from LD. I will find a pic of a unit modded by LD tomorrow to see if I made a mistake in identifying the caps. I did the mod based on the pic only. 
Also, if you look at the internal pic of MK 8, you can see the 4 caps are now LD's own brand film caps instead of the green WIMAs in the 6. So I assume they are coupling caps in the audio path, I could be wrong!

Btw, The MK 6 is only a OCL (output capacitor less) circuit, yet the 4 caps are next to the driver tubes which are not responible to "output" the final signal. So my guess these 4 caps are the coupling caps for the driver tubes (correct me if I am wrong)


----------



## zenpunk

Not too sure myself to be honest but still very interested if the LD can be modded and improved on. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Upgrading the wire was something I was contemplating. Not because I believe that would make a difference but because some of those solder joints are very ugly and probably doesn't help LD's reputation, which is a shame as their amps sound incredibly good.


----------



## john57

pkjames
   
  That is great and it shows that you do not have to use very high price caps for better SQ. Yes the coupling caps are for the driver tubes and none for the outputs of the 6AS7/6080 tubes.  It is still a DC coupled amp.Your mod is just great and the amp now have all the air it needs for long cool life. Are you using lights on the fan? Maybe a frosted glass plate to spread the light?


----------



## pkjames

john, the fan does come with blue LEDs, here is a night shot 

   
   
  do you mean placing a frosted glass plate at the bottom of the rack? As there is now nothing between the fan and the LD. The base cover is completely removed.


----------



## pkjames

As of regarding the factory upgrade option, here are the pics I was referring to. 
   

   
   
   

   
   
  I have to admit  that the work is heaps better than mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and of course the parts they use are much better as well. I would say if you have to send your LD 6 / 8 back to China for whatever reason, may as well ask them to upgrade the cable and caps for you (I am pretty sure you can supply your own caps if you wish). IIRC the full option is about US$500, taking into account that the cost of the caps is about $250 from partsconnexion, I think it is not a bad deal. The only problem is you have to make sure the caps are not overly huge, which would otherwise touch the fan. (This is one of the main reasons that I decided to remove the bottom fan / cover completely)
   
  Rdgs,
  James


----------



## john57

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Not too sure myself to be honest but still very interested if the LD can be modded and improved on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I see nothing wrong with the soldering job. I have open my amp and it looks fine. The wire insulation on the XLR does look a bit melted since Little Dot are using the standard high temp solder not the newer lower temp solder. Normally I like to use Teflon wiring if I was going to do a lot of soldering. I see no cold joints or no solder like I sometimes find on other amps. There is usually a [size=11pt]rosin[/size] coating on the joints which is a good sign in my book. If the soldering job was bad I can easily fix it since I have a great deal of soldering experience. No need in this case. Not a shame and their amps sounds incredibly good! 
  I wanted to add that even with Woo amps they sometimes have a bad soldering job and I personally help someone to identify a bad solder joint that was causing drop outs in sound. Knock on wood with my Little Dot!


----------



## zenpunk

Interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The PCB looks very clean but all the joints on the XLR plugs look pretty bad. Nothing like the ones on the pictures above. My LD also exhibit a very low hum/hiss with sensitive cans (the SE is just too noisy to be useable), which I thought was normal considering the amount of power the amp output but I was very surprise to learn that somebody was brave enough to plug CIEM and heard no hiss.


----------



## pkjames

The chassis is connected to power ground and also connected to audio ground, which to me is easy to cause ground loop. According to John Broskie, it is better to isolate different grounds.
   
   

  If you look at the XLR connectors of LD, all the signal GND are attached to the chassis. For my LD, it suffers huge hum noise while I use it as preamp to drive STELLO S200 power amp. As a result while I was modding the cable, I tried to isolate the chassis from signal ground but apparently there are many of these bridge connections and some of them are at the back of the PCB that I can't even find! So a mega failure on this bit.


----------



## baronbeehive

I've just bought some Tungsol 6080wb's with solid graphite plates identical to Bendix but cheaper and also cheaper than the Sylvania 7236's. I'm hoping they are going to beef up my tungsol drivers a tad. If they do it could be, er, no more tube rolling. Feeling good!


----------



## rosgr63

Nice tubes indeed, enjoy them.
   
  I have bad news for you: *tube addiction is too strong to shake off!*
   
  You'll soon join the tube addict's club!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> The chassis is connected to power ground and also connected to audio ground, which to me is easy to cause ground loop. According to John Broskie, it is better to isolate different grounds.
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the XLR connectors of LD, all the signal GND are attached to the chassis. For my LD, it suffers huge hum noise while I use it as preamp to drive STELLO S200 power amp. As a result while I was modding the cable, I tried to isolate the chassis from signal ground but apparently there are many of these bridge connections and some of them are at the back of the PCB that I can't even find! So a mega failure on this bit.


 
  [size=medium]It sound like that the signal ground in the Stello amp is connected to the earth ground and the amp connected to a different outlet and could cause a ground loop. On some pro amps there is a ground litter switch on the power amp.  I noticed that the Selleo has a grounding thumb screw on the back and is that connected in any way? You may wanted to check and see if the XLR 3 pin cable shield ground is only connected to the signal ground at one end only. The 4 pin XLR on the front of the LD should never have any of the pins connected to any grounds otherwise you will have problems big time.  Not an issue if you use only balanced headphones with the front jack. LD connects the chassis grounds to the signal grounds so that all grounds are at the same potential. This will minimize other forms of noise and to make sure a tube amp malfunction does not put high B+ voltage on the chassis. I do not like the idea of floating the chassis ground to a different potential either since the diodes as shown in the first picture is not going to handle high B+ voltages like 300V in some cases. [/size]


----------



## john57

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> I've just bought some Tungsol 6080wb's with solid graphite plates identical to Bendix but cheaper and also cheaper than the Sylvania 7236's. I'm hoping they are going to beef up my tungsol drivers a tad. If they do it could be, er, no more tube rolling. Feeling good!


 
  never say never!


----------



## Opethian10

I just received my Little Dot MK VI+...such an amazing amp for the money. 

However, I was wondering if someone could help me figure out how to expose the amp's chassis to change the gain setting? The product manual did not mention where the gain switches are located and I would prefer to not have to take the whole amp apart to do this. I am using the amp with 600 ohm DT880's and HE-400's which are much easier to drive, so I could definitely use some help from you guys.

Thanks


----------



## zenpunk

You only need to unscrew the bottom plate. But if you don't own a AKG K1000 or HE-6 there is no need to change the gain.


----------



## pkjames

Tks for the advice John, I will check out the stello's thumb screw. I spent quite a while playing around with power outlets, making a set of proper xlr cables with shield connected to one end only etc and did not help. 

James


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





opethian10 said:


> I just received my Little Dot MK VI+...such an amazing amp for the money.
> However, I was wondering if someone could help me figure out how to expose the amp's chassis to change the gain setting? The product manual did not mention where the gain switches are located and I would prefer to not have to take the whole amp apart to do this. I am using the amp with 600 ohm DT880's and HE-400's which are much easier to drive, so I could definitely use some help from you guys.
> Thanks


 

 Congrats on a great amp purchase. This amp has served me exceptionally well with my 5LEs. A superb amp for sure. My upgradeitis for headphone amps ended after the purchase of this amp. Which I can't say for many other audio components.


----------



## Alanaudio

Hi, I just got my d7100 recently.
 I want to make a choice between the MBP>audio gd reference 10 (all in one)
 or MBP> audio gd reference 5>XLR>mk vi+
I will get a balance cable but sometimes also use the single end, which one do you think is quite suitable for me?


----------



## pkjames

i am very curious to hear people's opinion about audio-gd, as this little company is from my hometown back in china, about 20mins drive or so. Sad that i never got a chance to check them out.


----------



## john57

I have never heard in detail on any of the audio-gd products and not sure if a vendor was using them at the RMAF just an initial impression that they have a high part count in their products and seems to be updated frequently.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I decided to switch the driver tubes to test the new voltage doublers adapters custom built in NC by our very own Member of the Trade on Hi-FI, 2359glenn. The brass socket with white ceramic socket goes well with the brass rings on my Little Dot VI+. This allows 12v tubes to be used to its full potential. The adapters will only work with amps that use AC for the tube heaters and in this case my Little Dot VI+ qualifies. I am now using the rare TS 12SN7 round plate dark glass NOS tube rebranded by Radiocoin in the original Radiocoin boxes that happen to be carefully stored. I was able to grab these at a good price on EBay. The sound quality was something I never experience before. Some will say I am blow away by the SQ but for myself I will say I am transported to an alternative sonic reality. The sound is the clearest I ever heard from any amp.  The sonic space or the room in the recordings of the drums on the beginning of Also sprach Zarathustra is very vivid. I can feel more of the emotions of the playing of various instruments like violins for example. The highs are much silkier sounding but clear and the very high frequency instruments are very realistic. The bass is also very deep and mostly rumble free because it is deep. I should have tried these tubes earlier but I was also content at the same time. I am in agreement with Roscoeiii the Little Dot VI+ is not FOTM but a long term investment on a more permanent level.[/size]


----------



## seaice

As for the Audio-GD: Audio-GD has a good reputation for me, especially their high-end DACs are great. I use fully balanced headphone rig from my computer USB > Audio-GD digital interface > AudioGD Reference One DAC > LD MKVIIIse > HD800 and I have lost the thirst for new headphone-related toys. I believe that this is my final solution for a very long time...


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





seaice said:


> As for the Audio-GD: Audio-GD has a good reputation for me, especially their high-end DACs are great. I use fully balanced headphone rig from my computer USB > Audio-GD digital interface > AudioGD Reference One DAC > LD MKVIIIse > HD800 and I have lost the thirst for new headphone-related toys. I believe that this is my final solution for a very long time...


 
  Where have I heard that before???


----------



## baronbeehive

Those 12sn7's sound incredible john57, I thought the 6sn7's were good, sadly I haven't got any now. It would be good if somebody found some cheap undiscovered tubes for the rest of us!


----------



## nigeljames

I contacted Little Dot a few months ago about whether they do any ugrades (caps/wiring) to the Mk6+ and they said they did not because the parts used were already very good and were designed to work together. As that changed? Can upgrades be chosen when ordering? or is it purely a DIY proposition.


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Those 12sn7's sound incredible john57, I thought the 6sn7's were good, sadly I haven't got any now. It would be good if somebody found some cheap undiscovered tubes for the rest of us!


 
  + 1 MILLION VOTES FROM ME!


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Those 12sn7's sound incredible john57, I thought the 6sn7's were good, sadly I haven't got any now. It would be good if somebody found some cheap undiscovered tubes for the rest of us!


 
  I should have said otherwise we're all coming round to your house!!!


----------



## baronbeehive

I noticed you've got the Twag-2 for your LCD-2 *nigeljames* and wondered how good it was as I was thinking of trying it sometime, until I got sidetracked into more tube rolling.


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> I contacted Little Dot a few months ago about whether they do any ugrades (caps/wiring) to the Mk6+ and they said they did not because the parts used were already very good and were designed to work together. As that changed? Can upgrades be chosen when ordering? or is it purely a DIY proposition.


 
  I just asked Mr. Sword Yang himself, copy and pasted your entire post to him. 
   
  He clarified that:
   
  MK 6 / 8 are definitely possible to opt for cable / cap upgrade. The upgrade package include:
  1. Cable upgrade for audio path. The cable is not silver but high grade silver over copper cable with teflon insulation.
  2. 4 driver caps. The 4 caps are Mundorf MCAP silver / gold foil in oil.
  3. All the audio path signal will use solder with silver. 
   
  The optional upgrade package is only available for new orders. Recabling is not offered for sold units, but they can help in upgrading the caps.
   
  Rdgs,
  James


----------



## baronbeehive

Incidently there's not much on the mkviii on this thread - just an observation.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> I just asked Mr. Sword Yang himself, copy and pasted your entire post to him.
> 
> He clarified that:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, I assume (I no longer have the e-mail) it was someone else who responded to my query or the upgrades are a new idea.
   
  Would you say the upgrades are worth it and any idea of the cost?
   
  Thanks


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> I noticed you've got the Twag-2 for your LCD-2 *nigeljames* and wondered how good it was as I was thinking of trying it sometime, until I got sidetracked into more tube rolling.


 
   
  So as not to distract from this thread I will send you a PM.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> So as not to distract from this thread I will send you a PM.


 
  Thanks but I'm sure we would all be intested - we're all trying to optimised our LD's with whatever means!!! Regarding the upgrades my first tube amp was the mkivse which was an upgraded mkiv and I've got that to thank for going on to the mkvi+. The mkiv was fantastic and an upgraded mkvi would be a good proposition too.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Where have I heard that before???


 

 Well, I finally went from headphones to speakers  And I really believe that my headphone rig is final with the LD MKVIIIse as the final head-amp.


----------



## zenpunk

Interested in those voltage doubler. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I had a similar experience after putting TS5998 into my LD. The LD with stock tubes is no slouch but the increase in transparency with the TS was just amazing. Sadly the 5998 are now quite rare and prices have  gone silly but I still believe they are worth the investment. 
  What power tubes are you using?
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]I decided to switch the driver tubes to test the new voltage doublers adapters custom built in NC by our very own Member of the Trade on Hi-FI, 2359glenn. The brass socket with white ceramic socket goes well with the brass rings on my Little Dot VI+. This allows 12v tubes to be used to its full potential. The adapters will only work with amps that use AC for the tube heaters and in this case my Little Dot VI+ qualifies. I am now using the rare TS 12SN7 round plate dark glass NOS tube rebranded by Radiocoin in the original Radiocoin boxes that happen to be carefully stored. I was able to grab these at a good price on EBay. The sound quality was something I never experience before. Some will say I am blow away by the SQ but for myself I will say I am transported to an alternative sonic reality. The sound is the clearest I ever heard from any amp.  The sonic space or the room in the recordings of the drums on the beginning of Also sprach Zarathustra is very vivid. I can feel more of the emotions of the playing of various instruments like violins for example. The highs are much silkier sounding but clear and the very high frequency instruments are very realistic. The bass is also very deep and mostly rumble free because it is deep. I should have tried these tubes earlier but I was also content at the same time. I am in agreement with Roscoeiii the Little Dot VI+ is not FOTM but a long term investment on a more permanent level.[/size]


----------



## john57

There is a close up shot of my Little Dot VI+ with the Glenn voltage doublers. The voltage doubler uses a capacitor network to create a pulsating 12v to the tube heaters. The adapter has to be big to do this. The one of the right is Glenn older style and the one on the right is the newer style that Glenn just built for me. Currently using the Bendix Red Bank graphite plates and you will notice a slot in the plate which brings up the soundstage up just a notch as compared to the solid plate version. I can use the 7AF7, 7F7,7N7, 14N7, 6SN7, 12SN7, 6SL7, 12SL7, 6C8G and the 6F8G tubes some with adapters. I could also look at the 2C51, 12AV7 tubes if I wanted to.  I am all stock up on power tubes to the next decade. At one time I wanted to try the TS5998 but not quite willing to pay the price.


----------



## zenpunk

Those Bendix appears to be even more expensive than TS 5998 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I have to admit the tube rolling options offered by those voltage doubler kind of scare me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I already been through so many tubes....That 's my final and ultimate configuration: 
   
   

   
   
  This + HE-6 was ridiculously closed to the  BHSE +007 I tried at the last UK meet.


----------



## john57

Stax was about the only game in town 30 years ago for high definition headphones when I borough my first pair. Now days the difference is much smaller. I did not like the high end planner headphones except for the HE-6 and it does sound like the Stax in may ways not even close to the other planner models. Today, I enjoy even listening to my HD555 headphones with my current tube setup on the LD. remarkable.


----------



## baronbeehive

The Tungsol 6080wb's I just bought on ebay with the solid graphite plates look identical to the Bendix ones and cost about twice the price - of RCA 6s7g's - not too expensive. I believe they were made for Tungsol/Chatham by Bendix. The structure is not quite the same as the ones that john57 has but they may give you an idea of the sound. However if your find any the postage could be a problem due to the weight of the graphite!


----------



## john57

I am locked with the current setup, no question. The TS12SN7 is just fantastic. For today I am playing using my secondary set of monitors the Equator D5, very nice clear and detailed. I received today the RCA coin base 6SL7 tubes maybe next year I will get the chance to put in the LD.  Vendor stock photos


----------



## john57

If anyone want a quad set of Bendix Tung-Sol tubes with Graphite plates it is $40 a piece on Ebay. I am done with power tubes for a long time. The Graphite plate for the Tung-Sol is shaped a little different from the one remaining  Bendix spare that I have with solid graphite plate. I thought that I point this out since finding a quad set for sale is rare.


----------



## pkjames

tks for the tip john, I took them  
  I do agree your opinion that the LD 6 is more a permanent investment rather than FOTM, really worth to explore its full potential!


----------



## pkjames

nigeljames said:


> Would you say the upgrades are worth it and any idea of the cost?


 

   
  about US$500. As I pointed out earlier, the cost of the caps is about $300. I would say if you think you are going to keep the MK 6 for a relative long period of time, then investing into the upgrade really helps to explore the full potential of this beautiful amp.
   
  James


----------



## john57

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> tks for the tip john, I took them
> I do agree your opinion that the LD 6 is more a permanent investment rather than FOTM, really worth to explore its full potential!


 
  Once you get the tubes feel the weight of each tube in your hand. It is very unlikely anyone will ever reissue the 6080 tubes with graphite plates because of costs. You got a good deal. The slotted graphite version that I am using I paid $55 each last year. Now the cost is $500 for the PAIR on Ebay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Good luck and enjoy the tubes!


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> tks for the tip john, I took them
> I do agree your opinion that the LD 6 is more a permanent investment rather than FOTM, really worth to explore its full potential!


 
  You've got the same ones as me now. Looking forward to trying them, might need to be careful lifting them though.


----------



## preproman

So I'm trying to decide on what tube amp to go with.  It's come down to the Lyr and this Little Dot MK VI+.  Are there any companions between the two I can take a look at?  The LD looks like its more capable and technically better than the Lyr but I just want to make sure.
   
  What does having more tubes mean?  The Lyr only has 2 this LD VI+ has 6  is there a pro or a con to this?


----------



## john57

[size=medium]The Lyr is a hybrid tube design in which the tubes do not drive the headphones. The tubes drive the MOSFET’s and the MOSFET drives the headphones. The MOSFET devices replace the four output tubes of the Little Dot. When I needed to get a new amp I already have many tubes that can be used in the LD including my Bendix tubes. The Lyr is single ended and the LD is dual mono balanced output. They both have DC servo control. You decide if you wanted 2 or 6 tubes to work with. Schiit is US based. Schiit was at the RMAF but I did not get a chance to listen to it. I am happy with my LD. [/size]


----------



## pkjames

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Once you get the tubes feel the weight of each tube in your hand. It is very unlikely anyone will ever reissue the 6080 tubes with graphite plates because of costs. You got a good deal. The slotted graphite version that I am using I paid $55 each last year. Now the cost is $500 for the PAIR on Ebay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  55 -> 250in a year, that was a good investment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  my best investment in audiophile so far is that i bought a about 20 or so blackgate caps back in early 08, used a few and forgot about them. They were pretty cheap at the time when they were just discontinued, IIRC about 2-5 each. I dug them out recently and sold them all on ebay as I don't find their SQ particularly special (I'd much prefer my cheap russina PIOs).  Anyway, they were sold on average $25 a pop and some fetched as high as $40. but again, only 10 folded in more than 4.5 yrs, not as good as about 5 fold in a year


----------



## pkjames

preproman said:


> So I'm trying to decide on what tube amp to go with.  It's come down to the Lyr and this Little Dot MK VI+.  Are there any companions between the two I can take a look at?  The LD looks like its more capable and technically better than the Lyr but I just want to make sure.
> 
> What does having more tubes mean?  The Lyr only has 2 this LD VI+ has 6  is there a pro or a con to this?


 


  I've never heard the lyr sound, as a typical hybrid amp, you'd expect most of the SQ tuning is controlled by the driver tubes as their power section is solid state. I have no problem with this config, since you get the better of both world (warmth from tubes and fast, dynamic from SS). Utilizing 6DJ8/ECC88 is also a good choice as there are many different tube choices available. I am a ECC88 fan as well, I have more than 10 pairs of different 6DJ8/ECC88 variants.  
   
  The only bit I want to point out is, once you listened to the sound from a balanced setup, there is a high chance you won't go back to single end. The LD 6 is effectively 2 SE amps stuffed in a single chassis, therefore doubles the tube (component) count. RSA B52 is the same in this regard. So if you cut the LD 6 in half, each side is a SE amp, and only has 3 tubes, this then is very similar to many other SE amps in terms of tube count (usually 2 to 4).
   
  I used to have both MAD Ear+ and LD 6, they retail about the same and the MAD Ear+ was regarded one of the best SE tube amps back in 08. While it was very musical, it just wouldn't produce the detail and sound stage as the LD. As a result I sold it and decided to invest the $$ into fully upgrade the LD 6 (a permanent investment, as John said).


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





preproman said:


> So I'm trying to decide on what tube amp to go with.  It's come down to the Lyr and this Little Dot MK VI+.  Are there any companions between the two I can take a look at?  The LD looks like its more capable and technically better than the Lyr but I just want to make sure.
> 
> What does having more tubes mean?  The Lyr only has 2 this LD VI+ has 6  is there a pro or a con to this?


 
   
  I am extrapolating a bit. But it seems that the Schiit *Mjolnir* is preferred by most folks over the Lyr, and in the *Mjolnir *thread, folks said that the *Mjolnir *and the LD VI are very close, more a matter of SS v. tube preferences, rather than clear performance differences across the board. Hope this helps.


----------



## Neogeo333

I have both the Mjolnir and MK6+.  I have to handle it to Jason and Schiit for making a spectacular amp for the money.  Like other have said, its may have set a standard for price/performance ratio.  But the MK6 is not far behind.  The way I see it is the Mjolnir is better suited for rock and music that emphasizes bass, the MK6 have the advantage on jazz and vocals.  Well i prefer a tube sound so im a bit bias to it.  With the MK6 I can change the sound signature with endless rolling while the Mjolnir has almost no sound signature at all.  One weird thing I have noticed is my dynamic phones sound better through the MK6, with the Mjolnir it good but not as good as the MK6.  Both are killers with orthos. 
   
  I forgot, I used to own a Lyr too, sold it.  It could not hold a candle compare to the two above.  Simply put it was in a much lower class.


----------



## john57

Neogeo333
   
By the way you describe the MK6+ is the better choice since I prefer acoustical music that normally not amplified in a concert settings. Mjolnir seems to be a bit thicker in the bass if I understand your statements. In a Rock concert were music is amplified the bass tend to be thicker when amplified and that is what concert goers are used to.  I call it the body micphonic effect which is part of that experience. I like the clear and detailed sound for myself. My NU 6SL7 $20 tubes are very dark. My current setup with the TS 12SN7 tubes gives fantastic soundstage provided the recordings are carefully done, howerver there is a problem. I seen setups in the recording studio where every part of the drum set have a microphone and sometimes the tracks are even recorded separately. This ruins the soundstage in my opinion. I like the old school minimalist view of fewer microphones are used for the recording and you can achieve a big soundstage in the process. I have not tried out all the power tubes. I have a set of Raytheon 6080 heavy plates that are a bit thicker sounding. I have two quad sets of NOS Chatham 6080 tubes standard plates that might give a bigger soundstage as shown in my pervious amp but the Bendix stays in my LD.  As long I have good recordings the soundstage is fantastic.


----------



## Neogeo333

Normally when I listen to concerts it better portrayed by the Mjolnir, Most of the live concert music i have are not that good recorded and the warm sounding MK6 makes it muddy in some way.  The Mjolnir is easier to listen to when recordings arent that great.  Its not that the MK6 has better detail retrieval, the opposite, the Mjolnir has better detail but what im tying to say is bad recordings are easier on my hears with the Mjolnir.  I hate to part with these two wonderful amps but that Cavalli Liquid Glass is whispering at my hears and all my driver tubes are rising from the dead waiting to welcome it.  Damn you Headfi.


----------



## Neogeo333

John have you tried the GEC 6as7 yet with the MK6?  since im selling the MK6, I've been trying most of my power tubes and find the GEC throw a very different sound than the Bendix 6080wb.  The Bendix sound has lot more weight to it, also it has tons of bass.  The GEC sounds on the neutral side while the Bendix is warmer.  One thing I like about the GEC is a better soundstage and clearer highs.  What are your current to go driver tubes?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> But the MK6 is not far behind.
> 
> One weird thing I have noticed is my dynamic phones sound better through the MK6, with the Mjolnir it good but not as good as the MK6.  Both are killers with orthos.


 
   
  This is kind of confusing.  You say the LD 6+ is not far behind.  But then you say the MJ is good but not as good as the LD 6+. 
   
  Which one do you prefer?
   
  Sounds like you like the LD 6+ better than the Lyr - correct?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> Normally when I listen to concerts it better portrayed by the Mjolnir, Most of the live concert music i have are not that good recorded and the warm sounding MK6 makes it muddy in some way.  The Mjolnir is easier to listen to when recordings arent that great.  Its not that the MK6 has better detail retrieval, the opposite, the Mjolnir has better detail but what im tying to say is bad recordings are easier on my hears with the Mjolnir.  I hate to part with these two wonderful amps but that Cavalli Liquid Glass is whispering at my hears and all my driver tubes are rising from the dead waiting to welcome it.  Damn you Headfi.


 
  This is confusing to me. An amp that has better detail usually makes bad recordings more worse than am amp with lesser detail in my experience. Good luck on getting the Cavalli Liquid Glass and I already stated my opinion on it.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> This is confusing to me. An amp that has better detail usually makes bad recordings more worse than am amp with lesser detail in my experience. Good luck on getting the Cavalli Liquid Glass and I already stated my opinion on it.


 
  I agree, usually the tube experience is able to cope better with bad recordings precisely because it doesn't highlight poorly produced music and that is another reason I like the mkvi because I can still enjoy all my older recordings and lower bitrate music. I agree however that live recordings are a special case and if poorly produced they do sound muddy, and there are reverbs etc to cope with, maybe the ss amp is better able to cut through the muddiness  somehow, I'm just speculating. But my view on the difference between the amps is that traditionally ss amps are better able to bring out extreme detail in base and treble while the mid range, eg vocals are best handled by tubes which can really bring music to life, I call it the spine tingling factor which you don't get simply be ever more detail retrieval. I still think ss amps can give  better extreme base response for example but tubes are not far behind. Some would say that the ability to reproduce the dynamic changes in music extremely fast such as ss amps do is slightly artificial however. I prefer the slightly slower, though more natural response of tubes, but I know others may disagree. But regarding the concert experience just listen to Patricia Barber - Live A Fortnight In France, or Genesis - Live Over Europe, or Supertramp - Live In Paris, or any number of other superbly recorded live concerts to really appreciate them. I prefer such recordings to their studio counterparts usually.


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





preproman said:


> This is kind of confusing.  You say the LD 6+ is not far behind.  But then you say the MJ is good but not as good as the LD 6+.
> 
> Which one do you prefer?
> 
> Sounds like you like the LD 6+ better than the Lyr - correct?


 

 With the orthos the MJ wins, because it can control the orthos better, the slam and bass is more tightly pronounce.  But with dynamic headphones I prefer the MK6 because its more musical to my hears.  I have recently decided to sell all my dynamic phones it just cant compete with the orthos.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





preproman said:


> This is kind of confusing.  You say the LD 6+ is not far behind.  But then you say the MJ is good but not as good as the LD 6+.
> 
> Which one do you prefer?
> 
> Sounds like you like the LD 6+ better than the Lyr - correct?


 
   
   I forget who, but some member did an intense comparison of the two and ended up returning the Mjolnir, for the same reason I wasn't fond of it.  The little dot 6 has an incredible musical presentation. everything is wide open and spaced out just right. You can even get a good vertical sense of sound with the right DAC. The Mjolnir tended to put all sounds into three places: Center, left and right. The Mjolnir is one of the most aggressive amps I have heard, and it definitely has an aggressive sound to it.


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I forget who, but some member did an intense comparison of the two and ended up returning the Mjolnir, for the same reason I wasn't fond of it.  The little dot 6 has an incredible musical presentation. everything is wide open and spaced out just right. You can even get a good vertical sense of sound with the right DAC. The Mjolnir tended to put all sounds into three places: Center, left and right. The Mjolnir is one of the most aggressive amps I have heard, and it definitely has an aggressive sound to it.


 
  Bingo, that was the word I was looking for"aggressive".  Some people are used to listen to one amp and when they listen to the Mjolnir it like WOW!!! this amp is the Schiit.  I dont mean to take anything away from it, it is overall very very good amp.  But little by little you get use to it sound signature and you will understand the Mjolnir is sometimes lifeless with certain music.  Jazz for example.  Any other rock,pop,reggae or electronica the MJ shines.


----------



## rosgr63

What type of base do your GEC 6AS7 have?


----------



## baronbeehive

I wonder if john57 could give me some information about voltage doublers and where can I get one? Will they work on mkvi's in general? Thanks.


----------



## preproman

What DACs are you guys paring with the LD6+?
   
  I was wondering if a tube DAC would be to much and muddy the sound?  I don't know I'm just asking.  I was looking the balanced Stockholm DAC:
   
  http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/stockholm%20balanced.htm


----------



## john57

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> I wonder if john57 could give me some information about voltage doublers and where can I get one? Will they work on mkvi's in general? Thanks.


 
  No problen
   
  In out of my notes I stated in this thread, _[size=small] voltage doublers adapters custom built in NC by our very own Member of the Trade on Hi-FI, 2359glenn. [/size]_[size=small]Just send him a PM.  While the adpater is big and does not go all the way flush with the socket the pins were long enough to make contact. If you find a issue with that you can use a pair of tube saver sockets which I also have to raise the socket above the brass rings. It is working just great in my setup.[/size]


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I do find that the LD MK6+ is a bit picky on the DAC being used. I was using the RDL HR-DAC1 until one of the channels blew out. I had another balanced DAC that I was using for a long time but the PS on it gave up. It was flaky to begin with. The RDL seems to be a bit weak driving the LD.   I am currently using the Emotive XDA-1 because it has a strong analog output section. Here is a photo that shows mostly the Emotiva XDA-1 analog output section.   I used to have two tube DACs but only the Sonic Frontiers was any good long before I was using the LD MK6+[/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium][/size]
   
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]The XDA-1 is being [size=11pt]discontinued[/size] but a new model the XDA-2 is shortly coming into the market. [/size][/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
 [size=medium]Quote:[/size] 





preproman said:


> What DACs are you guys paring with the LD6+?
> 
> I was wondering if a tube DAC would be to much and muddy the sound?  I don't know I'm just asking.  I was looking the balanced Stockholm DAC:
> 
> http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/stockholm%20balanced.htm


----------



## preproman

That's funny.  I currently own the XDA-1 as well.  Although I don't like it very much.  Kinda bright and analytical to me opposed to being musical.


----------



## zenpunk

Just found out that Little Dot has a new matching DAC III: 
   
   
  
  Could be a neat looking stack


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> Just found out that Little Dot has a new matching DAC III:
> 
> 
> 
> Could be a neat looking stack


 
   
   
  Been rumored long enough.


----------



## john57

I think it all depends on the synergy of the equipment, tubes being used and the recordings you are listening to. I am also using an USB CM6631 converter to bring out more low level details in the music and dialog.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





john57 said:


> No problen
> 
> In out of my notes I stated in this thread, _[size=small] voltage doublers adapters custom built in NC by our very own Member of the Trade on Hi-FI, 2359glenn. [/size]_[size=small]Just send him a PM.  While the adpater is big and does not go all the way flush with the socket the pins were long enough to make contact. If you find a issue with that you can use a pair of tube saver sockets which I also have to raise the socket above the brass rings. It is working just great in my setup.[/size]


 
  Glenn has made me some nice saver sockets and various adapters.
   
  Highly recommended if you roll tubes.


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





john57 said:


>


 

 I remember when my local dealer used to carry Sonic Frontier, I was there like 3-4 times a month listening to their amps along with Paradigm speakers.  Too bad they are almost gone now.


----------



## rosgr63

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> John have you tried the GEC 6as7 yet with the MK6?  since im selling the MK6, I've been trying most of my power tubes and find the GEC throw a very different sound than the Bendix 6080wb.  The Bendix sound has lot more weight to it, also it has tons of bass.  The GEC sounds on the neutral side while the Bendix is warmer.  One thing I like about the GEC is a better soundstage and clearer highs.  What are your current to go driver tubes?


 
   
  What type of base do your GEC 6AS7 have?


----------



## baronbeehive

Thanks john57 and rosgr63 for the information on adapters, I didn't want to approach 2359glenn first before asking. Can't wait to give it a try, I don't know if 12v tubes sound better generally than 6v but it seems a good way to optimise the LD in lieu of the upgrades mentioned by pkjames. One can only wonder at the prospect if one had that done as well!
   
  Re the DAC, I asked David of LD a while ago why their first DAC purported to have a very neutral analytic sound, slightly harsh if I remember rightly, rather than the smooth sound one may prefer and he said that it is better for the DAC to be as neutral as possible so that the sound output from the DAC could be altered by whatever amp sound was preferred. If one preferred a warm smooth sound then get a warm smooth amp etc.
  Quote:


preproman said:


> That's funny.  I currently own the XDA-1 as well.  Although I don't like it very much.  Kinda bright and analytical to me opposed to being musical.


----------



## pkjames

The dac 3 has 2 wolfson 8740 running in mono mode and I know there is a pair of output transformers at the analog stage. There is I2S input which is very nice to match the upcoming asynchronous USB interface that features i2s output. The first batch are out in china already, well received by the users.


----------



## che15

preproman said:


> What DACs are you guys paring with the LD6+?
> 
> I was wondering if a tube DAC would be to much and muddy the sound?  I don't know I'm just asking.  I was looking the balanced Stockholm DAC:
> 
> http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/stockholm%20balanced.htm



I have the balance Havana and it does not make it sound muddy at all.
It sounds just as good as my other DACs that r SS.


----------



## Neogeo333

I have the brown box version.  Not the older one that is rounder.


----------



## zenpunk

Quote: 





pkjames said:


> The dac 3 has 2 wolfson 8740 running in mono mode and I know there is a pair of output transformers at the analog stage. There is I2S input which is very nice to match the upcoming asynchronous USB interface that features i2s output. The first batch are out in china already, well received by the users.


 
   
  I already own a Audiolab MDAC that I find very impressive and enjoyable but I am so impressed with the MK6+ that I wonder if they done it again with the new DAC3?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> I already own a Audiolab MDAC that I find very impressive and enjoyable but I am so impressed with the MK6+ that I wonder if they done it again with the new DAC3?


 
   
   
  Can you post a link to the new DAC3?


----------



## zenpunk

Well, it only has only been released on the Chinese market and is only mentioned on that Chinese audio forum :
   
http://www.erji.net/read.php?tid=1252698&fpage=4
   
  Of course it is relatively cheap compared to the competition but I learned that means little with the LD MK6+


----------



## che15

They have the DAC 3 on eBay , $659


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





che15 said:


> They have the DAC 3 on eBay , $659


 
   
  Strange it just got posted on the little dot webpage, but the unit for sale on ebay is not from little dot directly. Pretty fast for what little dot always claims is a 'clone'.


----------



## yomomma1

My LD MK4 se has a fault. The left channel dies on it very easily if the surface it's on is touched in the slightest way. I then have to unplug it and wait, then plug it back in and it sometimes comes back on, or it just buzzes instead.

Does anyone have any idea what may be causing this and what my solution is?

I've contacted David at LD but to no avail (please no questions about that, I just want to get my amp fixed not use this as an excuse to have a dig at anyone).

Thanks


----------



## john57

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Strange it just got posted on the little dot webpage, but the unit for sale on ebay is not from little dot directly. Pretty fast for what little dot always claims is a 'clone'.


 
  [size=medium]From reading the Chinese forums the DAC just started production. I am not even sure what factory is building these. There seems to be many contract manufactures in Asia. There also seems to be a large “gray market” for products in general from what I can see. The only thing I kown for sure is that Sword Yang is the DAC designer as well for the MKVI+.[/size]


----------



## alota

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]The only thing I kown for sure is that Sword Yang is the DAC designer as well for the MKVI+.[/size]


 
  no doubt.
  he is the mind of little-dot


----------



## john57

With the introduction of the new DAC III it sounds like that Sword Yang is working on the next CD transport player III that will be using the Philips CD-Pro2LF unit. It may come out next month as he stated. Sword Yang stated that he will work on another media streaming device next year.  I replaced the power cord on my MKVI+ since the female end was not graping the pins well on the amp and was cause some power dropouts.  I just used the extra sets that I have lying arround. My amp continues to work just fine with the change.


----------



## zenpunk

I need another DAC like I need a hole in the head but still very tempted by that DAC. I can't see how it could compete with the M-DAC but I might have to find out. It also has permalloy output 'cattle'? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Surprisingly, it also has I2S input, which will likely attract the numerous "audiophiles" from the forum concerned about very nasty jitter


----------



## john57

The only reason I brought a new DAC was because my previous DAC gave out. Here is a internal photo of the new Little Dot DAC.
   

   
  [size=medium]In the gray box are two Toroidal transformers. One is for the digital side and one for the analog side just like my new DAC. The output of the transformer goes thru a series of inductors to remove high frequency AC noise from the mains. A common cause of this is a switching power supply being used by another device on the same AC mains circuit that the DAC is using. Then it goes to a row of diodes where the AC is converted to DC and then to the four filtering caps to smooth out the DC. The output then goes a set of four voltage regulators with four adjustable trim pots to set the reference voltage levels. The digital section does its magic and then goes to the permalloy "_silver box_". This may be the analog section.  Then a pair of shield cables to the XLR outputs. [/size]


----------



## Roscoeiii

Just got a Schiit Gungnir DAC so I can now run balanced to my LD VI (also 2 SE outputs, so I can run it to my stereo, and an SE headphone rig!!
   
  Sounds fabulous through the VI. Best my headphone set-up has ever sounded. More details later.


----------



## rosgr63

Very nice, congratulations!


----------



## baronbeehive

Just got my Bendix power tubes and they're sounding good!!


----------



## john57

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Just got my Bendix power tubes and they're sounding good!!


 
  great!


----------



## baronbeehive

Cheers John and everyone for their help, they really do sound good. Next thing is an Audiophilleo 2 USB-SPDIFF converter, when will it end!!!


----------



## john57

[size=medium]You will reach a level of contentment with your system. You are almost there! Getting the Audiophilleo2 which is an asynchronous USB reclocker converter sounds like a great idea for your system. The designer of the Audiophilleo2, Philip Gruebele knows what he is talking about and his web site is chock full of information and articles. I noticed that Philip is also a musician and owns a Steinway 7 foot grand piano. I was thinking about getting a firewire DAC but ended up with the Emotiva DAC. My other balanced  DAC had ASRC(asynchronous Sample rate converter) but does not hold a candle to the asynchronous USB device that I am using. I am working on a new idea to take my system to the next level but my LD MK6+ is staying in the picture. [/size]
I may give more details later on.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]You will reach a level of contentment with your system. You are almost there! Getting the Audiophilleo2 which is an asynchronous USB reclocker converter sounds like a great idea for your system. The designer of the Audiophilleo2, Philip Gruebele knows what he is talking about and his web site is chock full of information and articles. I noticed that Philip is also a musician and owns a Steinway 7 foot grand piano. I was thinking about getting a firewire DAC but ended up with the Emotiva DAC. My other balanced  DAC had ASRC(asynchronous Sample rate converter) but does not hold a candle to the asynchronous USB device that I am using. I am working on a new idea to take my system to the next level but my LD MK6+ is staying in the picture. [/size]
> I may give more details later on.


 
  Only joking! This is a great hobby and I'm already astounded by my LD. I know what sound I want and it's a case of fine tuning. Mainly a slight boost in realism (slight soundstage and detail improvements), and that will be me sorted. I'm looking to get a near speaker type sound and that will also mean slight improvements in base response, especially on the leading edge, but I don't want to have solid state sound, so no sylvanias for example. However some things, especially in the treble range sound better on headphones I think. From what I've read the audiophilleo would give me this with no loss of warmth either. That's interesting what you say about your DAC. I'm not looking to change my Channel Islands Audio DAC as I'm happy with it, it's nice and organic sounding and clear and should be boosted anyway by the Audiophilleo. Look forward to hearing details of your next upgrade!


----------



## baronbeehive

Another thing about the Audiophilleo is that it will go up to 24/192 bit playback which is pretty future proofed. I thought that USB was limited and couldn't go up to high def so that's another factor in its favour because it would mean I will not need an optical output from my PC. I hadn't paid much attention to jitter previously because you don't really hear it unless you hear music without it and the Audiophilleo goes down to very low jitter rates, indeed the Audiophilleo 1 even allows you to see and hear the effects of jitter. Pretty cool.


----------



## zenpunk

To get back to the MKVI+....does't anybody know how close the two pairs of power tube should be matched? 5%? Does it need to have Gm AND idle current draw matched for best performance?


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> To get back to the MKVI+....does't anybodyknow how close the two pairs of power tube should be matched? 5%? Does it need to have Gm AND idle current draw matched for best performance?


 
  I asked David of LD a while ago and he said it wasn't necessary to use matched tubes for this amp though obviously you may prefer matched tubes for best sound.


----------



## zenpunk

I believe due to the balanced topology it is actually primordial that each pair are closely matched as they amplify the opposite legs of the same signals. I know the driver tubes don't need to be matched but the power tubes have to matched for best performance (that's in the manual)


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> I believe due to the balanced topology it is actually primordial that each pair are closely matched as they amplify the opposite legs of the same signals. I know the driver tubes don't need to be matched but the power tubes have to matched for best performance (that's in the manual)


 
  I just checked again with LD and David said the power tubes should be matched but "not too picky" to quote him, sorry I can't be more precise.


----------



## zenpunk

Thanks for checking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Little Dot might well have some circuitry to compensate for variance but usually in such balanced designs closely matched tubes can really improve  performance. Sadly there is very few professional tubes seller that can properly matched tubes and it also cost money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Still I would love to know more, especially if current draw matters at all. Does anybody know if Sword Yang reply to individual's email? ( I don't have it, does he speaks English?)


----------



## john57

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> To get back to the MKVI+....does't anybody know how close the two pairs of power tube should be matched? 5%? Does it need to have Gm AND idle current draw matched for best performance?


 
  The DC servo control that is provided by the op-amps will control the idle current of the output tube in order to have zero DC offset within reason. This is important for a push pull amp and especially for the LD Mk6+ since it has no output coupling cap to block the DC. Each power tube has its own DC control op-amp. What is important is that each  triode section in the same tube is to be fairly close together. That is usually not a issue with NOS tubes. For used tubes I do sometimes find the triode balance is way off in the tube because previous that tube was used in a circuits that only one side of the tube is being used. My sencore TC28 is very good is telling me what tube are NOS and what is slightly used by the life test. The GM is not as important for power tubes as it would be for driver tubes. My tester is just a dynamic tube tester that has no GM reading capabilities but has a very sensitive shorts and leakage test. There is no way for a tube tester to perfectly match the tubes since a tube tester does not know the circuit or amp that the tube will actually be used in. I can see the DC servo action in operation on my LD Mk6+ when the right meter turns on the needle will overshoot a bit and then undershoot and then re-balance steadily. I do find that tubes with high leakage can mess up with the sound and there not many testers with the senstivity range of my Sencore.


----------



## zenpunk

Thanks for the detailed answer John. What do you mean by each section of the same tube to be fairly close? Gm or current draw? I bought quite a few supposedly matched quads but moving the tubes around in the amp lead to different bias reading on the meters so I suspect those are not very well matched if at all. I understand matching tubes is a kind of black art as it is rarely done at operating voltage anyway. At the end of the day it is probably worth buying tubes from a professional sellers that actually attempt to match rather than off fleebay.
  Do you know  how tubes with higher Gm such as  7236 or 5998 affect Zout and current delivery. The bias end up being quite  lower (40mA) and  the amp run a lot cooler with more gain suggesting better efficiency


----------



## rosgr63

The B&K and Jackson circuits are also excellent in detecting leakages and shorts.
  The Hickok circuit is not very good as it only tests at 0,25Mohm.
   
  If a tester can read the plate current during testing and the current of each section is the same or close then you have balanced sections.
   
  Otherwise you'll have to plot the plate current versus voltage curves and compare them.
  Not many sellers have that kind of equipment.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]zenpunk[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Both of the 6SL7 and the 6AS7/6080 tubes are what we call dual or twin Triodes. Some tube amps will use a single driver tube for both channels. Since the LD Mk6+ is a balanced amp I suspect since I do not have the amp schematics, is that both sides are being used. [/size]
  [size=medium]7236 or 5998 tubes are compatible but not identical electrically. It should have different bias levels for best results. The same is true with my Quick Silver M135 mono tube amps. Different compatible tubes have different bias levels requirements and I have to manually adjust the bias levels on my Quick Silver amps depending on tube type that I am using. Otherwise the tubes will not operate in its more linear range.   If you moving the same tubes around in the amp leads to different bias reading on the meters then I would suspect that the tube(s) is not well matched depending on how much difference you are indicating on the LD meters. Currently my meters are reading 70mA on both sides with the Bendix tubes.[/size]


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I have completed my small project. This may not be common knowledge but the Sennheiser HD598, HD558, HD518 headphones are very easy to convert to balanced mode. The replaceable cable already have the four color coded wires in it. No need to take the headphone apart. I did order a replacement cable from Custom Cable in UK but it is not easy for a vendor to get the replacement cables from Sennheiser for the above headphones. I brought the ‘helping hands” with Magnifier from Radio Shack at 50% off. While I have three soldering irons I decided to use a soldering gun for this project. I brought mine from an Auto parts store. The cheapest place to buy a soldering transformer gun.  The wires color codes were not as I expected it to be.  I did know that the Red is the right+ and white is the Left+ but did not know what is the corresponding - wires were. So I use my meter on resistance setting and put on the headphones and connect one meter lead to the red wire and touch the other meter lead to the other two wires possibilities and when I heard static on the right channel I know I got the right pair for the channel.[/size]
  [size=medium] Right channel Red+ and blue-[/size]
  [size=medium]Left   channel White+ and black- [/size]
  [size=medium]I brought the 4 pin XLR from EBay at $3.12 which includes shipping.[/size]
  [size=medium]I did this on my HD598 and it was much easier to convert than my Russian Fisher Audio FA-002W[/size]
  [size=medium]I am just delighted that it worked just fine. For some recordings I turn on the headphone crossfeed with increases spatialization standard on J.River and the realism is breathtaking on the LD Mk6+. That concludes my small project for the moment. There is another bigger thing I am working on and I call it the final realism project and it begins tonight since my equipment came in.  [/size]


----------



## baronbeehive

Is there any reqirement to get the length of the different wires exact for the balanced signals to match up perfectly? I aways wondered about that.


----------



## john57

[size=10pt] _[size=12pt]Is there any requirement to get the length of the different wires exact for the balanced signals to match up perfectly? I always wondered about that.[/size]_
[size=12pt]If you were talking about my headphone HD598, the wiring on the right side adds roughly 13 inches for the right channel as compared to the left side for the balanced connections. It is of no consequence at all because the audio signals are traveling at the speed of light not sound. I know that some of my speakers' leads, various connections, and equipment locations have much more of a variance than 13 inches.[/size]
   
   
[size=12pt]If you were talking about my 4.1 setup, yes the distance between each speaker is a issue and I adjust my Yamaha surround sound processor delays for each speaker so that the sounds will arrive at my ear at the same time in the room. I generally sit closer to the rear speakers and therefore I adjust the delay for the rear speakers so that the sounds from the front can arrive to my ears at the same time as the sound from the rear speaker. This allows the recording engineer to decide how the sound should reach for each speakers. In this case we are talking about the speed of sound which can cause issues. [/size]
[/size]


----------



## baronbeehive

Thanks for that John. More specifically what about the lengths of the 2 wires carrying the 2 push/pull halves of the balanced signal to the headphone. I know the signal travels fast but I would have thought that any slight variance in length would affect the timing of the 2 components of the balanced signal putting it out of phase. The reason I ask is because I wouldn't have the confidence to rewire the connections myself, unless I was certain. (Can't get a new paragraph on edit) Also maybe it's a bit off topic for this thread but which headphones/speakers do you use crossfeed on, and is that on your main amp? I remember a while ago that some headphone amps have crossfeed and I shunned it as being rather artificial sounding possibly. I did think it might improve my Shure SE535 in ear phones which I had at the time because they haven't got much soundstage due to the nature of in ear phones. However when I got my Audio Technicas which are open ear phones I didn't consider crossfeed any more.


----------



## john57

Just to keep this short not to hijack this thread. I only use crossfeed only for headphones not for speakers or Binaural recordings. It depends on the microphones setup. There are many [size=medium]implementations of crossfeed.[/size]


----------



## rosgr63

I am using a Corda Cross-1 cross feed with one of my setups.


----------



## john57

I really enjoy my Sennheiser HD598 transformation in using a 4 pin XLR jack. Before I tried the single ended output connection with the HD598 on the Little Dot Mk6+ and the difference is again remarkable on the XLR ouput. This is unlike of the Woo amp WA22 which sounds the same using the 1/4 jack or the balanced ouput connection.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I just completed my realism project for my Little Dot MkVI6+.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I am very happy with my Samsung S23A7000D 3D 23” 120Hz computer monitor using active shutter glasses and Frame Sequential mode for 3D at 60Hz. That is one good reason I got the 120Hz monitor since I am not a gamer person. This 3D Frame Sequential mode gives much better quality than side-by-side mode. I can stand up or below at 30% or at the sides at 45% and still have a very clear 3D presentation. Only tilting my head will "wreck" the 3D effect. It is like watching an IMAX movie in 3D only on a smaller screen. I am just delighted with the quality. I tried four different commercial software 3D players on my computer before I found the one that will work properly with my setup.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I bought a few music 3D Blu-Ray from Aix Records, like Mozart from Old City String Quartet and 3D effect is just very powerful and clear. A few nice features of the Aix recording is that they offer a choice of  5.1 Dolby TrueHD from a stage perspective,  5.1 Dolby TrueHD from an audience perspective, 5.1Dobly Digital with both stage and audience perspective and a stereo mix in 96kHZ 24 bit. In addition on the disk you can copy the Enhanced headphone mix in “surround”,  2 channel Stereo MP3 at 320kbs, and a 2 channel stereo FLAC at 96kHaz/24 bit as well. I also have Carman the opera in 3D. I hope that more companies will offer more music in 3D Blu-Ray video.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Tip: I heard that Samsung web site will have their “Black Friday” starting on 11/18 and the same monitor I am using will be offered at a deep discount along others.[/size]


----------



## pkjames

Built myself a Optimized Morgan Jones Headphone Amp with feedback (earmax pro alike) recently, which is going to be my office rig, and spent the last few days auditing the amp. I dumped many goodies into it and precisely tuning the working voltages, It has dedicated low voltage transformer with LDO for heater (UK made ILP transformer) and Canadian made hammond manufacturing transformer for B+ voltage. So I am pretty sure the amp is as good if not better than the stock earmax pro.
   
  While the amp is really musical, it clearly lacks the distinct kick and transparency that the LD MK VI can produce. Being using russian 6N23P til now coz I want to make sure everything works well before I put the exotic tubes. Yet I think the morgan jones amp just lacks in terms of power delivery capability (<100mW@300 ohm), and changing tubes merely chances the sound signature but will not improve in the power delivery side. 
   
  even happier with the LD6!


----------



## atistatic

which amp can compare that LD MK VIII with ? im little dot MK IV owner xD.


----------



## john57

Maybe the Woo Amp WA22, Balancing act by Eddie Current, Balanced Audio Technology. Sound like the WA22 closest price wise.
   
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/605677/balanced-tube-amps-under-1500-see-criteria-below


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





atistatic said:


> which amp can compare that LD MK VIII with ? im little dot MK IV owner xD.


 

 Not sure about direct comparison of LD MKVIIIse but someone in this thread said that the LD MK VI was better than WOO WA5. See this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/210#post_8206742
   
  I have never auditioned Woo amps myself but I can say that the LD MK VIIISE is really great with HD800.


----------



## nsgarch

I've just started reading this thread (because I just bought a LD Mk VIIISE ;~) and have been interested in some of the tube rolling comments.
   
  Conspicuous by their absence, is the (12AT7) GEC A2900 (or CV6091 - military version, but the same tube).  I've been collecting them (on eBay) since they were $60 - $85 a pair;  but now up to $250/pair,  which should say something about their desirability.  In fact, they'll knock all other 12AT7's out of the park (I promise!)  I use them in all my 12AT7 apps:
   
  Atma-Sphere MP-3 balanced phonostage (3 pairs)
  McIntosh MC275 amplifier (2 pair)
  Little Dot MK VIII SE (very soon ;~)
   
  These tubes (when in good shape) have the highest transconductance (gain) of any 12AT7 you will run across.  This is an especially important quality when they are used as drivers for (whatever) power tube(s) because they can provide unflinching control over the power tubes' grids.  Their sonics are also excellent, as in my phonostage -- but of course once again, their incredible gain makes the biggest difference in the phonostage too. (in S/N ratio)
   
  If you're eBay-shy, you can buy brand new ones (matched and guaranteed) from Jim Rhodes at Langrex in the UK, or from his eBay ad:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/260877535635?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
   
  I'm really anxious to hear the LD Mk III SE.  So far, I don't have 'balanced' _and _'tube' in the same headphone amp ;~)  My current 'stuff' is:

 Melos SHA-1 tube headphone amp (single-ended)
 HeadRoom Balanced Home Amp;  the 'Beast', with outputs for two pairs of BAL headphones
 HeadRoom 'Cosmic' headphone amp
 2 pr. Sony MDR-V6
 2 pr. Senn 650 (one w/ AudioArt Equinox SE cable)
 1 pr. Senn 600
 1 pr. Denon AH-D7000 (w/ AudioArt Equinox BAL cable)
 1 pr. Grado SR60
 1 pr. Grado SR125
 1 pr. Yamaha YH-1 (w/ Cardas FatPipe BAL cable)
 2 pr. Yamaha YH-2's  
  I know, it's _nuts_;  but it was all an accident . . . honest!  The _truth_ is, a year ago, all I had was the two pairs of Sony's, and NO amps, except a little ASL HD-1 headphone tube buffer that was plugged into the tape loop of my preamp;  oh, and the headphone jack on my Nak CR-7A cassette deck ;~)
  You can see my main system here:  http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1109799786
   
  I just turned 71 today (thanks! ;~) and my hearing, while not exactly "_shot_", is of course, _old_ ;~)  And I find I'm getting a lot of enjoyment listening to headphones.  Often more than my beautiful main system and speakers (sniff, sniff ;~)  One thing that contributed to that turn of events, is the "Crossfeed" feature on HeadRoom's line of headphone amps.  Before that, I just couldn't bear the "ping pong, hole-in-the-middle" effect of headphone listening (except of course when I could listen to an occasional rare binaural recording.)  I only wish HeadRoom (or _somebody_) would make a balanced tube unit with that feature (or am I uninformed?)
   
  Anyway, I've enjoyed reading all your posts, and expect to be much better informed for doing so!  I need to do some 'weeding-out' (obviously ;~) but please feel free to criticize (or advise;~) on my current collection of stuff;  keeping in mind my deteriorating hearing, and the fact that I probably don't have a lot of time to amortize any (expensive) changes ;~)  Thanks.
   
  Neil


----------



## rosgr63

Many Happy Returns!
   
  Lots to learn from you.
  Happy Listening.


----------



## zenpunk

The majority of your cans appear to be low Z, I am curious to know why you picked the MKVIIISE over the MKVI+? Meier Audio produces a DAC with a very good crossfeed but sadly they have no balanced outputs. What balanced DAC will you be using?
  Quote: 





nsgarch said:


> I've just started reading this thread (because I just bought a LD Mk VIIISE ;~) and have been interested in some of the tube rolling comments.
> 
> Conspicuous by their absence, is the (12AT7) GEC A2900 (or CV6091 - military version, but the same tube).  I've been collecting them (on eBay) since they were $60 - $85 a pair;  but now up to $250/pair,  which should say something about their desirability.  In fact, they'll knock all other 12AT7's out of the park (I promise!)  I use them in all my 12AT7 apps:
> 
> ...


----------



## john57

Neil.
   
  I also have the Melos SHA-1 pre-amp. Like you I sometimes use the headphones more than my main system. As for crossfeed that I somethimes use  J.river software to provide that to my little Dot Mk VI6+. Have fun when your LD come in!


----------



## nsgarch

Excellent question ;~)  To which (in my case) there are a few answers:

 I got a great deal on the LD (used of course)
 I really love my Yamahas best (OK, and the Denons too, but they _are_ lo-Z)
 Because I like the Yamahas so much, I'm thinking of 'splurging' on one of the two current manufacture orthodynamic headphones, which should go well with the MkIII (or not?)  And would really appreciate any comments/preferences about/between those two headphones (which I forgot to mention before.)
   
  Actually, I was a little confused by the (earlier) discussion about the pros/cons of:  hi-Z / lo-Z drivers, versus high-efficiency / low-efficiency drivers, _versus_ the Mk VI / Mk VIII.   I feel like there are one-too-many sets of variables here ;~)  Could someone please enlighten me?
   
  As to your question about source(s):
  I _had _been listening to the big HeadRoom amp from an Accuphase DP- 75V which is actually a transport _plus_ a multifunction DAC/processor on one chassis.  It has both BAL and SE outputs -- although _Japanese _BAL outs are inverted from the American standard (why are we _not _surprised?!)  But when I get the HeadRoom amp back (today!) I'm going to put it in my main system (see link above) which has a Wadia 27 DAC which also has BAL (non-inverted!) and SE outputs.  Right now, I have the Melos SHA-1 SE tube headphone amp in the main system  --  and there's no question (at least in my mind) that despite the fact it lacks BAL outputs and the Crossfeed, that tubes rule!
   
  Which comes back to why I was interested in the LD MK VIII SE.  It should be arriving just about the same time I get my MP-3 fully balanced, differential, Class A all-tube preamp back from Atma-Sphere (which I originally bought because it has my _dream_, all-tube, fully balanced phonostage;  and no one else makes one quite like it.)  I can't believe my good fortune in discovering this preamp.  I'm already selling my vintage Mark Levinson gear (which I _never_ thought I'd part with!)  Anyway, the thought of listening to ALL my sources through the MP-3 _and_ the balanced LD MK VIII SE really excites me!  And if I'm right, I will probably sell the big Headroom unit, Crossfeed and all ;~)
   
  Thanks,
   
  Neil


----------



## nsgarch

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Many Happy Returns!
> 
> Lots to learn from you.
> Happy Listening.


 
  Thanks very much rosgr.
  I only got two birthday cards . . .
  The were each from people who owe me money! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -- Neil


----------



## john57

[size=medium]I see if I can clear up a few things here. For orthodynamic headphones the Mk6 is the clear choice since it has the greatest power for the low-efficiency lo-Z headphones which normally is harder on tubes. Both can drive hi-Z  high efficiency and to a point Hi-Z low efficiency headphones. The Mk8 however may have better “refinement” in sound with higher grade caps and “voiced” better for the Hi-Z headphones.  The Mk6 is better for the wider range of headphones that are in used today.[/size]
  [size=medium] It is not common to find a tube pre-amp with a fully balanced phonostage [size=11pt]section[/size] using XLR inputs for turntable. For me I am not using my turntable but I am using my CD,s ,audio DVD,s and Blu-Ray,s. My computer software player J.river gives me quite a few setting for crossfeed when I needed it.  I noticed that your Atma-Sphere has 11 tubes inside.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





nsgarch said:


> I've just started reading this thread (because I just bought a LD Mk VIIISE ;~) and have been interested in some of the tube rolling comments.


 
  Funny I just commented on the lack of mkviiise posts and you've just put that right! Your hearing issues is much the same as my reasons to try to get the best system possible for my advancing years, planning ahead, as well and contributed to getting my HiFiMans which is one of the most detailed headphones available today - my one and only headphone sadly! I did consider the Denons briefly amongst others but I think one thing is key, that is the ability to play them at low volume without loss of detail or enjoyment, many headphones are not consistent throught the volume range. Many peopleI seem to play headphones excessively  loud which is not really a great thing for prolonged use because if you did the same thing with a speaker set up you would soon get the bangs on the walls! I work in an environment where headphone use is one way of combatting boredom and although I don't play them loud I've already noticed some deterioration in hearing. One thing is that when you've tried a balanced setup  you  should get some of the same gains as you  would with crossfeed because soudstage is one of the biggest gains.


----------



## atistatic

dude ... i should Buy that Little dot MK VIII after of that i purchase my Dac for my LD MK IV SE, by the way i want ask here what Dac do u recommend me? someone else recommend did (JKDAC32, Violectric V800 or Yulong Sabre D18) + V-link2 of Musical fidelity, somebody have a better option? should know that the DAC is for my LD MK IV SE and after, for the LD MK VIII SE.


----------



## pkjames

why not consider LD dac 3? what i like most of it is the IIS input so you can just get the LD UA_I for asynchronous usb interface.


----------



## john57

To save money I would look the Emotiva XDA-2 which has both unbalanced and balanced outputs on sale for $349 with free shipping in USA. I have the previous version XDA-1. Very good value for the money, hard to beat. Other balanced DAC is the Schiit GUNGNIR for $750 both are US based companies.


----------



## atistatic

i dont know mmmm ... that dac what i called are top in 1300 range price. Violectric cost 1300U$s, JKDAC32 500 euro and Yulong 700 or 800 u$s


----------



## vlach

nsgarch said:


> I've just started reading this thread (because I just bought a LD Mk VIIISE ;~) and have been interested in some of the tube rolling comments.
> 
> Conspicuous by their absence, is the (12AT7) GEC A2900 (or CV6091 - military version, but the same tube).  I've been collecting them (on eBay) since they were $60 - $85 a pair;  but now up to $250/pair,  which should say something about their desirability.  In fact, they'll knock all other 12AT7's out of the park (I promise!)  I use them in all my 12AT7 apps:
> 
> ...




My advice: sell the X qty of headphones that will allow you to purchase the HD800 and never look back


----------



## nsgarch

Quote:


> [size=medium]I'll see if I can clear up a few things here. For orthodynamic headphones the Mk6 is the clear choice since it has the greatest power for the low-efficiency lo-Z headphones which normally is harder on tubes.[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]Hi John  --  I haven't checked the specs on the current orthos, but here are the Yamaha specs:[/size]
> [size=medium]Impedance: 150 ohms[/size]
> ...


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





vlach said:


> My advice: sell the X qty of headphones that will allow you to purchase the HD800 and never look back


 
  Agreed!! Problem is we all have our favourites. I can't understand Sennheiser owners but I can quite understand if they don't like HiFiMan owners. There are quite clear leaders in the field - HD800's, HE6's, Beyerdynamic T1's and LCD's. However people still like their Sen 595's and such like. They all have their own characteristics which people love them for. I think with headphones you need something else not just an accurate presentation. Personally I go for the forward mid range because I love the enhanced emotion that this gives to vocals for example, whereas others, quite understandably go for massive. "out there", soundstage of top end grados. Whenever I've read reviews I've tried to go for a good all rounder and that's why I'm now down to one set of cans!


----------



## john57

[size=medium][size=medium]Neil,[/size][/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]Now I see that you have three pairs of Yamaha Orthodynamic headphones that were made in the late 1970's? Providing that they have the same sensitivity of 96dB at 150 ohms today as when they are new you should not have any issues in driving them with the LD Mk 8. Today’s Orths are about 50 ohms or less with sensitivity as low of 83dB which I would use the LD Mk 6 for those especially with the HiMan HE6.[/size][/size]


----------



## Neogeo333

Just a little report on new driver tube for the MK6.  OMG, these BL63 are everything they say they are.  Been using my new favorite 6sn7, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and in my opinion the Sylvania bested the Tung Sol VT-231 oval mica.  But boy these BL63 are a step higher than even the Sylvanias.  First thing that I notice is how the soundstage just expanded.  Better instrument separation and a much cleaner background than the other two.  One thing this tube lacks to my hears is bass.  Its there, its clean and tight but not much like the TS or Syl.  Mids and highs are clean and clear.  Definitely more transparent than the other two.  This is just after 1 hour of warm up, who knows what it can do with a couple of hours more. 
   
  A big thanks for Glenn from Glenn Studio for the adapters.


----------



## rosgr63

The BL63 is a wonderful tube, enjoy it.
  Make sure the transformer can cope with the 1.3A heater current to be on the safe side.


----------



## john57

Neogeo333
   
  About a month ago you said that you were going to sell your LD Mk 6. What changed your mind?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





nsgarch said:


> I've just started reading this thread (because I just bought a LD Mk VIIISE ;~) and have been interested in some of the tube rolling comments.
> 
> Conspicuous by their absence, is the (12AT7) GEC A2900 (or CV6091 - military version, but the same tube).  I've been collecting them (on eBay) since they were $60 - $85 a pair;  but now up to $250/pair,  which should say something about their desirability.  In fact, they'll knock all other 12AT7's out of the park (I promise!)  I use them in all my 12AT7 apps:


 
  I'm using some Psvane 12AT7-T Grade A tube's in one of my hybrid tube amp for my bookshelf monitors, bests any other 12AT7 tube's I've tried up to the $350 margin. Some of those old expensive tube's are only expensive due to it's rarity, age or some military spec'd tube's manufactured within-tight specs.
   
  Give the Psvane's a try, you will be surprised.


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Neogeo333
> 
> About a month ago you said that you were going to sell your LD Mk 6. What changed your mind?


 

 It still for sale, just havent found a new owner.  I'm getting a Cavalli Liquid Glass and thus the MK6 need to go. 
  Been buying new tubes to get really too tube roll when the LG arrives.  I even listed all my 6080 and its variants for sale too.


----------



## pkjames

The idea of liquid glass is really really good. Tks a billion different types of tubes and the SS power section just there to faithfully reflects the characteristic of the input tubes. Wonder how it compares with the LD 6/8.


----------



## nsgarch

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I'm using some Psvane 12AT7-T Grade A tube's in one of my hybrid tube amp for my bookshelf monitors, bests any other 12AT7 tube's I've tried up to the $350 margin. Some of those old expensive tube's are only expensive due to it's rarity, age or some military spec'd tube's manufactured within-tight specs.
> 
> Give the Psvane's a try, you will be surprised.


 
  Hi DefQuon:  I have already made that comparison, trying the Psvane 12AT7's in both the phonoamp section Of my Atma-Sphere MP-3 preamp, and as drivers for my KT88 power tubes in my McIntosh MC275 MkIV.  The Psvanes are very nice tubes, quiet, with nice flat response top-to-bottom;  but the GEC A2900/CV6091 were still much better in all parameters, including their (important to me) ability to drive the KT88 power tubes with authority.  I can not only hear the difference, but I also know this because with the A2900's driving the power tubes, the amp draws 270 watts (of wall power) and with most other 12AT7's, the amp only draws between 225 and 240 watts.  What this tells me is that the GEC tubes are enabling the power tubes to 'work harder'  --  putting out more power and therefore providing more headroom.
   
  Right now as a matter of fact, I'm burning in a quad of Psvane KT88-T black-coated power tubes in my amp, to compare them with my Shuguang Black Treasures, and my (reference ;~) NOS Gold Lions.  The P's have almost 300 hours on them, the Shuggies about 4500.  There are some things the Shuggies actually do _better_ than the GL's.  I'm waiting to make the same comparison when the P's burn in a little more.  I will say that physically, the P's are better made than the Shuggies.  Heavier bottle, ceramic base, and a thicker more evenly applied carbon coating.
   
  BTW, if anyone is thinking about buying either of those brands, the best price (and service) you'll find is from Clark at www.goodcomponent.com  He'll even select and match tubes with highest plate current for you which he pulls right from the assembly line.  You can email me for more info if you like.


----------



## atistatic

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> It still for sale, just havent found a new owner.  I'm getting a Cavalli Liquid Glass and thus the MK6 need to go.
> Been buying new tubes to get really too tube roll when the LG arrives.  I even listed all my 6080 and its variants for sale too.


 

 Hi Neogeo333, i want ask how many should spend for get a better quality amp than MK VIII?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





nsgarch said:


> Hi DefQuon:  I have already made that comparison, trying the Psvane 12AT7's in both the phonoamp section Of my Atma-Sphere MP-3 preamp, and as drivers for my KT88 power tubes in my McIntosh MC275 MkIV.  The Psvanes are very nice tubes, quiet, with nice flat response top-to-bottom;  but the GEC A2900/CV6091 were still much better in all parameters, including their (important to me) ability to drive the KT88 power tubes with authority.  I can not only hear the difference, but I also know this because with the A2900's driving the power tubes, the amp draws 270 watts (of wall power) and with most other 12AT7's, the amp only draws between 225 and 240 watts.  What this tells me is that the GEC tubes are enabling the power tubes to 'work harder'  --  putting out more power and therefore providing more headroom.
> 
> Right now as a matter of fact, I'm burning in a quad of Psvane KT88-T black-coated power tubes in my amp, to compare them with my Shuguang Black Treasures, and my (reference ;~) NOS Gold Lions.  The P's have almost 300 hours on them, the Shuggies about 4500.  There are some things the Shuggies actually do _better_ than the GL's.  I'm waiting to make the same comparison when the P's burn in a little more.  I will say that physically, the P's are better made than the Shuggies.  Heavier bottle, ceramic base, and a thicker more evenly applied carbon coating.


 
   
  Why do some people say my name with 'uon' lol, anywho coming from the top of my head, the MP-3 is that long tube amp with one side being the transformers  and the otherside is a whole bunch of tubes on one side. I'm a little not surprised those GEC A2900 are much better than Psvanes, as I've heard some and seen people say that it is indeed a superbly sounding tube, having not tried the GEC's, how much better would you rate over the Psvanes?
   
  I'll admit I haven't played with a lot of 12AT7 tubes but I've got a good little expensive collection on the 12AU7 and the only time I see the Psvanes lose is as someone quoted on another forum with their comparison, comparing it to a rare NOS level 1950's Telefunken diamond based tube. What would be your second best 12AT7 valve besides the GEC's? (They don't come cheap).


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





atistatic said:


> Hi Neogeo333, i want ask how many should spend for get a better quality amp than MK VIII?


 

 The money is yours, I'd say whatever your budget allow.  I have never listened to the Cavalli, just going by other people impressions.  But the thought of been able to use lots kind of tubes got me.
  But most importantly people that I known and have good rep. in here all mention its one of the best amp around.  Now Im geting of topic.  
  To sum the LD MK6, I put it at the most bang per buck in the tube amp market.  Similar to what the Schiit Mjolnir is to SS amp.  For the money you cant beat those two.


----------



## john57

For the MKIII the one thing that comes in my mind that *might *be better is the  Emmeline II, "B-52" by Ray Samuels Audio. I have listen to their Dark Star amp two years ago. You will have that the Little Dots are very good and to get the very "best" which can be very subjective at that level,  is a huge price increase. I decided to keep my LD MK6 and more so today since I found my "Holly Grail" of driver tubes.


----------



## nsgarch

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Why do some people say my name with 'uon' lol, anywho coming from the top of my head, the MP-3 is that long tube amp with one side being the transformers  and the otherside is a whole bunch of tubes on one side. I'm a little not surprised those GEC A2900 are much better than Psvanes, as I've heard some and seen people say that it is indeed a superbly sounding tube, having not tried the GEC's, how much better would you rate over the Psvanes?
> 
> I'll admit I haven't played with a lot of 12AT7 tubes but I've got a good little expensive collection on the 12AU7 and the only time I see the Psvanes lose is as someone quoted on another forum with their comparison, comparing it to a rare NOS level 1950's Telefunken diamond based tube. What would be your second best 12AT7 valve besides the GEC's? (They don't come cheap).


 
  Hello DefQon (and please forgive my previous misspelling,)
   
  The MP-3 is one of two Atma-Sphere preamps.  ( http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MP-3 )  What you described is one of their (very fine) OTL amplifiers.  Rosgr63 (post #486 above) uses one as his/her avatar ;~)  The MP-3 (with phonostage) uses 11 tubes. 7x 12AT7's in the phonostage, and 2x 12AU7 + 2x 6SN7 in the linestage.  I'm actually using the Telefunken 12AU7 you mentioned in the linestage (and sometimes Raytheon's with windmill getters ;~)  along with a pair of the also excellent RCA red base 6SN7's.)  This is a GREAT preamp!   I'm generally not a fan of tube preamps (don't like listening to tube hiss after it has been amplified and sent to my speakers ;~)   But the MP-3 is VERY quiet, and owning one was the only way I could get my hands on a balanced tube phonostage.
   
  Regarding the GEC 12AT7, a little history:  All I can say is the GEC tube is  waaay ahead of the rest of the pack;  and I'd tried many of those others before discovering the GEC's (I'll give you my thoughts on those below.)  As I explained in my previous post #469, it had to do with my preference for high transconductance KT88 power tubes.  At the time, about 5 years ago, the three vintage NOS GEC KT88's (Gold Lion, Gold Monarch, and blue label GEC) were the only really high Gm (transconductance) KT88 tube you could buy, and they had a (very deserved) reputation for air, soundstage, and a kind of 'sparkle', that no other KT88 could match, either vintage or modern.  Then came the EAT's which were the first (modern) tube to compete with the GEC's performance (at $1600/quad!)  I never owned them, but had friends with NOS Gold Lions who said the EAT's were even better.  (I did try a quad of used EAT's which were excellent, but not better ;~)  By that time, I had run through a whole bunch of KT88's, and made an interesting discovery:  The higher the transconductance, the better the sonics, with a definite break point (for KT88's anyway) at around 9000 Gm.  So when the Shuguang Black Treasures came out (about 3 -4 years ago) claiming 12,000 Gm, I thought I'd give them a try.  I wasn't disappointed.  They matched the performance of my vintage Gold Lions in every way.  And as I mentioned, I'm currently trying out a quad of the new Psvane black-bottle KT88's which I think are better built, though may not be any better in perfomance (which is not a criticism ;~) I have an excellent Chinese source for Shuggies and Psvanes, so it's not expensive for me to experiment.
   
  Back to the 12AT7's.  My first quad of A2900's cost me around $160.  Not excessive for good NOS 9-pin signal tubes.  I wish I could remember what first caused me to try the GEC tube (so far no luck ;~)  At the time, I was trying out all kinds of 12AT7/6201 tubes in my brand new McIntosh MC275 Mk-IV amplifier.  (I had pretty much settled on the 12AX7 and KT88 tubes)  I suppose, the GEC's were just another one I decided to try, I really can't remember ;~(   But the minute I put them in, there was a noticeable improvement in bass performance (both clarity and power) and I also noticed my amp was drawing a few more watts from the wall ;~)   The A2900 is a very powerful tube on its own.  Most 12AT7's measure around 3000 Gm (new) whereas A2900's can measure as high as 5000!  I guess the word is out because you can't hardly find them anymore for under $250 a pair +/-- (although I just picked up another pair on eBay for $167, lucky me!)  The other 12AT7's I previously enjoyed (and which I would still consider excellent in most applications) are/were:

 Sylvania TMBP 6201's
 RCA long blackplate 12AT7's  very strong tubes, great for rock  --  and therefore good for drivers too, like the GEC's (but not as refined)
 Siemens 6201's  (especially if you like a lot of bass)
 Valvo blue-label gold-pin 6201's which I thought were the best 12AT7 (most refined)*, along with the GEC's  (in all apps. except as drivers)
 Psvanes -- which as I said, I'm just now trying.**
   
  * By 'refined', I mean nice flat frequency response from top to bottom, and not of any of that 'fuzzy' edge you get with a lot of common 12A*7 tubes.
  **  The Psvane 12AT7's (and I'm also trying out some of their 12AX7's) seem to be excellent tubes.  They have 3-micas which is unusual for most 12A*7 tubes, and are performing well in my MP-3's phonostage.  The GEC A2900's still outperform anything I've tried as driver tubes however.
   
  Neil


----------



## atistatic

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> The money is yours, I'd say whatever your budget allow.  I have never listened to the Cavalli, just going by other people impressions.  But the thought of been able to use lots kind of tubes got me.
> But most importantly people that I known and have good rep. in here all mention its one of the best amp around.  Now Im geting of topic.
> To sum the LD MK6, I put it at the most bang per buck in the tube amp market.  Similar to what the Schiit Mjolnir is to SS amp.  For the money you cant beat those two.


 

 and which is the best ? between MK8 and Schiit Mjolnr?


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





atistatic said:


> and which is the best ? between MK8 and Schiit Mjolnr?


 
   
  I have never heard the MK8, so I cant comment on that one. But the Mjolnir is very very good.  If you like fast, lots of bass and transparency the Mjolnir can not be beat at that price.  Now if you favor tube sound MK8 is better?  I think the MK8 from what I've heard people talk are more headed toward higher impedance cans like Senn and Beyers.  In my opinion the Mjolnir does better for orthos and lower impedance phones.


----------



## atistatic

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> I have never heard the MK8, so I cant comment on that one. But the Mjolnir is very very good.  If you like fast, lots of bass and transparency the Mjolnir can not be beat at that price.  Now if you favor tube sound MK8 is better?  I think the MK8 from what I've heard people talk are more headed toward higher impedance cans like Senn and Beyers.  In my opinion the Mjolnir does better for orthos and lower impedance phones.


 
  I've hearded too that MK VI beat amplifiers that cost 3 or 5 times that mk VI cost. but well.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





nsgarch said:


> Sylvania TMBP 6201's
> RCA long blackplate 12AT7's  very strong tubes, great for rock  --  and therefore good for drivers too, like the GEC's (but not as refined)
> Siemens 6201's  (especially if you like a lot of bass)
> Valvo blue-label gold-pin 6201's which I thought were the best 12AT7 (most refined)*, along with the GEC's  (in all apps. except as drivers)
> ...


 
   
  Thanks a lot man, I will definitely try to get my hands on some GEC sometime soon, ebay auction's for a strong matched pair is around $250-320 atm which is expensive, lucky you you had got your's for $167 .
   
  I currently have a pair of the RCA long blackplates that you described in my hybrid amp VK-2100, I was a little surprised how well these little gem's perform for the price I paid for ($60 incl shipping, tested strong, matched pair almost NOS level). If the A2900's sound anything like it in terms of it's sound signature but more refined as you described more clear, coherent, flat frequency range then it will definitely spike my interest even more in them. I will also try to hunt some Siemens 6201's down sometime, would love to bring out some low-end out of my bookshelf speakers for some of the genre's I listen to.
   
  Also, I think I may killed one of my lucky RCA triple mica 12AU7's last night shorting it out, having it in a modded amp, only one side produces sound now and from closer inspection as it's powered only one cathode tip light's up from one side of the plates, the other side does not light up and the tube does not run hot at all, all other tubes are tested fine after I rectified the problem with my amp.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> Just a little report on new driver tube for the MK6.  OMG, these BL63 are everything they say they are.  Been using my new favorite 6sn7, Sylvania 6sn7w metal base and in my opinion the Sylvania bested the Tung Sol VT-231 oval mica.  But boy these BL63 are a step higher than even the Sylvanias.  First thing that I notice is how the soundstage just expanded.  Better instrument separation and a much cleaner background than the other two.  One thing this tube lacks to my hears is bass.  Its there, its clean and tight but not much like the TS or Syl.  Mids and highs are clean and clear.  Definitely more transparent than the other two.  This is just after 1 hour of warm up, who knows what it can do with a couple of hours more.
> 
> A big thanks for Glenn from Glenn Studio for the adapters.


 
  How would you describe the difference between the Sylvanias and the Tungsols? The only Sylvania's I've heard were characteristically bright and lacking mid range fullness, they give the impression of a good soudstage but most of this is down to the brightness as far as I could see. There is not much depth to draw you in, but I know the wgt's are the best.


----------



## Neogeo333

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> How would you describe the difference between the Sylvanias and the Tungsols? The only Sylvania's I've heard were characteristically bright and lacking mid range fullness, they give the impression of a good soudstage but most of this is down to the brightness as far as I could see. There is not much depth to draw you in, but I know the wgt's are the best.


 

 For me it was a matter of preference I guess.  Both are good but the 6sn7w metal base sounded better to my ears.  More open and more detailed.  It had a naturalness the Tung Sol didnt have.  I dont know if I need more time to test the TS but I usually leave driver tubes around 3days.  After the second day the TS still didnt sound better than the Sylvanias on there first day of usage.  I have a TS 6f8g of the same oval mica contruction coming soon hopefully it would better than its 6sn7gt variant.


----------



## atistatic

Then, i still have a question, for High impedance headphones is recommended MK 8 and for low impedance headphones MK 6?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





atistatic said:


> Then, i still have a question, for High impedance headphones is recommended MK 8 and for low impedance headphones MK 6?


 
  i listened my MK VI with headphones from 32 to 300 ohm without any problem. for beyer i don´t know


----------



## atistatic

Someone here tried a MK VIII SE with low impedance? Or tried MK VI+ with 600ohm headphones?


----------



## atistatic

anyone can help me ? ?


----------



## pkjames

oh well, i am now using my LD6 to drive beyerdynamic T1 exclusively, best stuff I have so far. It may not pair with other high Z cans well, but certainly synergizes with the T1.


----------



## john57

no issue with my beyerdynamic T70 at 250 ohms. The Mk6 will give more power for today's othos that are at 50 ohms which can require a bit more power than the Mk8 can provide.


----------



## john57

I am now using 7F7 driver tubes with a loctal adapter and it is the "best bang for the buck" tube I ever heard. I am so impressed that I brought several pairs. I am all set on tubes for several years at least.
   
  .


----------



## Neogeo333

I've try the Lansdale 7n7 and boy they sure are good.  Not Sylvania metal base 6sn7w good but very close.  And for a fraction of the cost its more sweeter.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Yes the 7F7 with the round plates are the ones that I am using and with heavy gettering down on most of the glass. The ones I have are labeled Philco(Sylvania?) make. I also have a full box of 7N7 NOS tubes previously that I was able to acquire at a cheap price that I have not tried all of them yet. Maybe late next year. I just enjoy the MA and AIX recordings. The Aix records are very unique in sound and options on Blu-Ray. The Aix 3D video recordings are some of the best examples of natural 3D presentations I ever seen, far better that the Sony 3D recording of Lang Lang as an example. Good natural 3D video recordings require different methods from 2D video and you do not want to over blow the effect. [/size]


----------



## zenpunk

What the difference between 7N7 and 7F7? Are those worth it if you already own  6SU7GTY?
  I can also confirm the T1 sounded superb with the MK6+


----------



## john57

7N7 is the loctal version of 6SN7
  7F7 is the loctal version of 6SL7
  Much cheaper than the TS round plates if you can find them in the round plate version.


----------



## DefQon

John your breaking my expenditure limits with all these new tubes your trying.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]Well, I believe that I have a good eye for bargains and “bang for the buck.” Tube prices are going at least 40% higher each year. I view my LD Mk6 as a long term investment, getting all the tubes for the future makes perfect sense to me.  I have a few rare tubes like the NOS GE 6AS7 with the shiny copper bottom radiators, very beautiful. I also have the older NOS  Heintz & Kaufman Gammatron tubes with perfect mint color printing on the tubes, harder to find them in the 6080 version these days. [/size]
  [size=medium]My LD Mk6 is being used every day for many things. My DAC has five active inputs all going to my LD Mk6 for movies, TV shows on internet, 3D music videos, DVD's and CD' except for my surround sound system.  I am hardly using my 43" TV since I can not afford satellite TV any more.[/size]


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=medium]Well, I believe that I have a good eye for bargains and “bang for the buck.” Tube prices are going at least 40% higher each year. I view my LD Mk6 as a long term investment, getting all the tubes for the future makes perfect sense to me.  I have a few rare tubes like the NOS GE 6AS7 with the shiny copper bottom radiators, very beautiful. I also have the older NOS  Heintz & Kaufman Gammatron tubes with perfect mint color printing on the tubes, harder to find them in the 6080 version these days. [/size]
> [size=medium]My LD Mk6 is being used every day for many things. My DAC has five active inputs all going to my LD Mk6 for movies, TV shows on internet, 3D music videos, DVD's and CD' except for my surround sound system.  I am hardly using my 43" TV since I can not afford satellite TV any more.[/size]


 
  What are your impressions of the difference between the TS12SN7 oval plates and the 7F7's? I've got a pair of ratheon 7F7's which I haven't even tried as I thought they wouldn't come up to the Tungsols's but as I couldn't sell them I will probably keep them for curiousity now. My very initial impressions of the 12sn7's together with the adapters from Glenn is very favourable as you have said previously, and I'm not really inclined to look further as these hit all the buttons for me.


----------



## john57

[size=medium]The difference between the TS12SN7 and the 7F7 is that the 7F7 is a bit brighter, a bit less noisy and a bit more impact. Nothing is wrong with the TS12SN7 but I only have one pair of the TS12SN7 and the 7F7 is the next best thing.  I was able to acquire a few 7F7 pairs.  Make no mistake I am perfectly content with the SQ of my LD Mk6 and you said that you are content with yours also. I got all the tubes I needed for the long term.  I made some improvements on the power supply for my USB reclocker and using a different USB port is also helping with the sound quality. [/size]


----------



## binot

Hiya..sorry to go off topic. Need some help. I'll like to purchase a LD MK8 SE. How do you go about doing it ? I've emailed the stated address on their forum,  little.tube@gmail.com asking for a price quote but am not getting a response. Am going about it the right way ? Hows the after sales support of their product ?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





binot said:


> Hiya..sorry to go off topic. Need some help. I'll like to purchase a LD MK8 SE. How do you go about doing it ? I've emailed the stated address on their forum,  little.tube@gmail.com asking for a price quote but am not getting a response. Am going about it the right way ? Hows the after sales support of their product ?


 
  You can email or pm directly on the Little Dot forums. Faster response. I purchased my unit off ebay fyi.


----------



## atistatic

Quote: 





binot said:


> Hiya..sorry to go off topic. Need some help. I'll like to purchase a LD MK8 SE. How do you go about doing it ? I've emailed the stated address on their forum,  little.tube@gmail.com asking for a price quote but am not getting a response. Am going about it the right way ? Hows the after sales support of their product ?


 

 Be pacient, i dont like wait neither that answer me my mails, i guaranteee that david always will answer your mails. Just be pacient.


----------



## fmlfml

Can the OPA445AP in VI changed to Audio GD Sun???


----------



## john57

Quote: 





fmlfml said:


> Can the OPA445AP in VI changed to Audio GD Sun???


 
   No, you can *not *change the OPA445AP to  Audio GD Sun in the LDVI because it is serving a different purpose of DC offset servo control for the power tubes. Since there is no output DC caps being used in the LDVI the OPA445AP duty is to maintain zero DC output from the power tubes by sending a controlling signal back to the input of the tubes like kind of a feedback loop. The OPA445AP is not in the audio source path. Every time you change the  high voltage OPA445AP you fine tune the DC offset as close to zero using the trim pots for each chip.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





john57 said:


> No, you can *not *change the OPA445AP to  Audio GD Sun in the LDVI because it is serving a different purpose of DC offset servo control for the power tubes. Since there is no output DC caps being used in the LDVI the OPA445AP duty is to maintain zero DC output from the power tubes by sending a controlling signal back to the input of the tubes like kind of a feedback loop. The OPA445AP is not in the audio source path. Every time you change the  high voltage OPA445AP you fine tune the DC offset as close to zero using the trim pots for each chip.


 
  perfect explanation!!!


----------



## atistatic

john did you prove shuguang Cv181 treasure?


----------



## reiserFS

Did LD ever change the annoying buzzing or fragile power button some of the models (including mine) had?
   
  Quote: 





atistatic said:


> john did you prove shuguang Cv181 treasure?


 
  These didn't work in my unit as far as memories go.


----------



## atistatic

mmmm then mullard cv181 neither work ?


----------



## reiserFS

Some people have reported that they do work, I'd wait for some more input from other owners though. Your best try would be mailing LD about it.


----------



## zenpunk

The Treasure CV181 don't fit because of their larger base. The Psvane CV181 and Mullard do....


----------



## atistatic

and what about of Sophia Electric 6SN7?


----------



## DefQon

Glad to see John still here providing helpful tube rolling recommendations....found any good contenders lately at the same price against the LD MK VI? I've heard the WA22 recently and my LD MK VI wipes the floor clean with certain music.


----------



## john57

I have not heard of anything better than the LD Mk6+ but there maybe some Solid State balanced amps that might be good but I do not care. What more audio refinement can there be? Once my Bendix tubes wear out I just switch to the matched and numbered RCA 6AS7 tubes from David. I still have several quads of NOS tubes. The latest news I have is that I went thru 5 balanced sources, three that I already owned before until I find the one that will work the best for my LD MK6+. I was surprised at the difference and a long story short, I ended up again with the ESI Juli@ card that I switched  the bottom half of the card to balanced mode using TRS jacks to XLR's. The ESI Juli@ computer card is better than all the other outboard DAC's that I tried. That is going to stay that way for the long term now. The previous new XDA-1 balanced DAC that I was using, the single ended outputs is much better than its balanced outs is now driving my other LD tube amp with great results.


----------



## DefQon

Great to hear, the LK VI+ is indeed a little gem, I will probably get around to trying some Bendix's but they are little costly. Hopefully David pulls some surprise from his sleeves in releasing a new LD flagship sometime soon.


----------



## Neogeo333

Now that I have sold my MK6+, I do miss them a little.  6 glowing tubes at night surely was a nice view.  It was a great amp.  But compared to my current amp Liquid Glass, its really shows what it lacked.  For almost 3K more it should or I would had returned it to Cavalli.  The MK6 still holds its ground well sonically, the sound is heavier and the background is less dark than the LG.  What it lacked it that its not as involving as the LG.  Dont get me wrong the MK6 for what its worth it one hell of an amp.  If my space and budget could allow I would get the MK6+ back in a instant.


----------



## DefQon

Well it is one heck of a jump in terms of price, so you'd have to sort of expect a near $4k amp to behave like one. I like the LG's ability to tube roll like crazy, but at the cost of more expense spent on tubes, more varieties. Indeed the MK VI+ is a a hellva amp, especially when it outr performs the WA22 which cost 2x more.


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]Since the last time I heard the LG at the RMAF last fall it was great with the HE-6. [/size][size=11pt] Right now my LD MK6+ is sounding better and a new comparison may need to be made. Part of my issue was getting the right driver tubes with the right balanced DAC for my LD Mk6+.  There is also a mod for the couplings caps for the driver tubes earlier in this thread that if you want that could improve the sound from the LD Mk6+. Still I have not heard anything better at the LD Mk6+ price range. I learn that having the right audio components in the chain does makes quite a bit of difference in the final results so comparing my LD Mk6+ with the LG would not be as easy. I also have my LD  Mk6+ driving my Equator D5 monitors and it is fantastic in mixing music instruments together that translate well for others.  [/size]


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]I am trying some new headphones with the LD MkV+ and already have return one headphone and waiting on another to be delivered. I tried the ATH-A900 locally and it keep sliding down on my ears. The AKG K550 at Best Buy did not have enough clamping pressure for bass and the clerk did not want me to bend the headphone! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## atistatic

Right Amper meter is in 0, but the 4 valves is burn perfectly, i hear perfect the amp, this is a problem ?


----------



## john57

The right meter should click in about four minutes after warm up. Does the meter light up after this time? You will hear a soft click of the relay and the right needle will move. This is the power and warm-up time sequence of the LD Mk V6+.  The left meter always lights up as soon power is applied.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]Since the last time I heard the LG at the RMAF last fall it was great with the HE-6. [/size][size=11pt] Right now my LD MK6+ is sounding better and a new comparison may need to be made. Part of my issue was getting the right driver tubes with the right balanced DAC for my LD Mk6+.  There is also a mod for the couplings caps for the driver tubes earlier in this thread that if you want that could improve the sound from the LD Mk6+. Still I have not heard anything better at the LD Mk6+ price range. I learn that having the right audio components in the chain does makes quite a bit of difference in the final results so comparing my LD Mk6+ with the LG would not be as easy. I also have my LD  Mk6+ driving my Equator D5 monitors and it is fantastic in mixing music instruments together that translate well for others.  [/size]


 
  Interesting how it's sounding better! That mod is very tempting too, I'm almost willing my mkvi to break down so I can order a new modded one but it won't damn it! I've now got the audiophilleo 2 asynchronous USB interface and it's already sounding good prior to burn in. One thing I wondered, as you have tried them both, is how does the HE-6 sound different compared to the HE-500 which I've got. I went for that one because many preferred it anyway but it was the best value can and at the time I thought the HE-6 would be difficult to drive. I got HiFiMan to send it to me with the HE-6 copper cable which made an enormous difference to SQ, with the silver cable it sounded almost walkman like which I mentioned previously so I would think that it sounds more like a scaled down HE-6 with the copper cable. I put that down to the fact that vendors do not ship cans with the best quality silver. Sometime I  will try a better quality silver cable with the HE-500 which  would be interesting as nigeljames told me previously that a good quality silver cable improved the HE-6 as well despite it already being one of the best cans on detail.


----------



## Stealer

Hi,
   
  I am a owner of  Beyers T1 and Hifiman He500..
   
  So am wondering... if I gonna get a Little Dot amp...which of the above 2 models should I be pairing with
   
  Mk6+ or Mk8... ???
   
  Pls adv...
  thanks in advance


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Stealer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I am a owner of  Beyers T1 and Hifiman He500.. So am wondering... if I gonna get a Little Dot amp...which of the above 2 models should I be pairing with Mk6+ or Mk8... ???


 
   
   
  MKVIIIse is better for Beyers T1. These Beyers were one of the headphones they have made this amp for.
   
  But not sure about the Hifimans, sorry.


----------



## elwappo99

stealer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a owner of  Beyers T1 and Hifiman He500..
> 
> ...




The mk6 is an stellar amp for hifimans.


----------



## zenpunk

Quote: 





stealer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a owner of  Beyers T1 and Hifiman He500..
> 
> ...


 
  It looks like you might have to get both..


----------



## DefQon

MK6 for sure. It is designed by in mind to power demanding orthodynamics and unique electrostatic transducers such as the AKG K1000. It will suit the HE-500 and T1's very well. The MK8 is designed to provide ample amount of power impedence wise for 150-600ohm headphones such as the HD580-800's and 600ohm Beyer's. The T1 will also pair well from a technical point of view but the T1 tesla driver can eat up more than 600ohm's at times.


----------



## seaice

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> It looks like you might have to get both..


 

 great idea  2 headphones = 2 amps  Buy both, compare all amp/headphone combinations and let us know  Then keep the better chain for yourself and take the other one to your wife > you are happy & Valentine/Christmas solved & your wife is happy > your happiness is doubled


----------



## Stealer

Well, I really wish for that
   
  Nearly got a resale Mk6+ but missed by seconds.. someone grabbed it..
   
  Anyway. thanks for the input..
  will consider it...
   
  Anyone selling off their unit and shipping oversea???
  PM me.. I interested if the price is right...
   
  rgds


----------



## diegozpulido




----------



## diegozpulido




----------



## DefQon

Nice pictures. Get some tube rolling going on too


----------



## Stealer

Hi,
  just wondering...since I did not see anyone mentioning this
   
  if you tube roll, do you have to perform biasing???
  if yes... how?
   
  appreciated...


----------



## DefQon

No biasing needs to be done as it is self biasing. Just drop in a tube and enjoy.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





stealer said:


> Hi,
> just wondering...since I did not see anyone mentioning this
> 
> if you tube roll, do you have to perform biasing???
> ...


 
  now, you´ve a lot of tubes to try...
  have fun
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  p.s.:the amplifier deserves good tubes


----------



## azureaura

There was a very kind French guy at the London meet. Could he, or someone remind me what tubes were rolled in the mk vi+?. The sound out of the HE-6 was mind blowing.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





azureaura said:


> There was a very kind French guy at the London meet. Could he, or someone remind me what tubes were rolled in the mk vi+?. The sound out of the HE-6 was mind blowing.


 
  That would be zenpunks amp and if i am not mistaken he had tung sol 5998 output tubes, not sure what drivers he uses. In my opinion the HE-6s through Didiers 6+ were the best sounding at the meet. His amp put meat on the bones if you know what i mean.
   
  It's actually got me thinking about getting a mk6 for my LCD-2s but it means changing everything from SE to balanced.


----------



## DefQon

The TS5998 are amazing in this amp used as output tubes. Costly though.


----------



## alvin sawdust

The prices of tubes in general have rocketed. I have a pair of GEC 6as7g which cost me about £50 for the pair around 3 years ago. Someone on ebay is trying to sell them for £150 each. It's getting ridiculous.


----------



## DefQon

Gec tubes are like the holy grail of tubes.


----------



## Stealer

Quote: 





defqon said:


> No biasing needs to be done as it is self biasing. Just drop in a tube and enjoy.


 
   
  Quote: 





alota said:


> now, you´ve a lot of tubes to try...
> have fun
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  thanks guys...
  have fun too...


----------



## azureaura

I have found some tung sol for a decent price. Can I use these with the stock driver tubes, or would it be good to get some GE 6AS7 or 6SN7?
   
  A noob to this tube rolling thing, even the verb to tube roll sounds funny.


----------



## azureaura

Also would the HRT Music Streamer HD be a good match with the mk vi+?


----------



## naimless

I was pretty sure the mk VI+ was going to be my next amp and then I heard it at the London meet last week( thanks Leon/zen punk?) didn't need anymore convincing after that so I placed my order and now have to wait!
Just thinking about the connections I need and I wondered if anyone has used XLR splitter cables ,do they have any negative effects on sound quality as the balanced connections of my dac (Yulong D18) are running my Yulong A18 and I also wanted to connect the LD mkVI+.


----------



## zenpunk

That was mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


, which happens to be for sale...http://www.head-fi.org/t/662189/ic-little-dot-mkvi-black-with-extra-set-of-tubes (shameless plug!)
mine arrived in less than a week from China.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> That was mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  y u no reply my pm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Tempting to try a 6sn7 pp design, but the balance requirement kinda puts me off =p.
   
  Anyway I guess I will get more answer here. Did anyone use a single ended source with the Little Dot mk6 (while still using the 4 pin XLR out of course)?
   
  From what I've seen in the insides, the 6 is a dual mono pp amp, so single ended input should be fine using both sides from the amp (lower volume than XLR of course). Can someone shed some light on this?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





naimless said:


> I was pretty sure the mk VI+ was going to be my next amp and then I heard it at the London meet last week( thanks Leon/zen punk?) didn't need anymore convincing after that so I placed my order and now have to wait!
> Just thinking about the connections I need and I wondered if anyone has used XLR splitter cables ,do they have any negative effects on sound quality as the balanced connections of my dac (Yulong D18) are running my Yulong A18 and I also wanted to connect the LD mkVI+.


 
  [size=medium]For myself I would not use a splitter cable. From the D18 I would use another pair of cable to connect the unbalanced outs to the A18 and use the balanced outs of the D18 to the LDVI+. Many balanced DAC’s can drive both outputs at the same time without a problem. I own several balanced DAC’s and in one case the unbalanced outs sound better than the balanced side. Have you tired the unbalanced out from the D18 to the A18 and noticed what differences there are?[/size]


----------



## zenpunk

khaine1711 said:


> y u no reply my pm
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sorry,I was convinced I did. Personally I wouldn't bother with the LD if you don't have a good balanced source.


----------



## naimless

john57 said:


> For myself I would not use a splitter cable. From the D18 I would use another pair of cable to connect the unbalanced outs to the A18 and use the balanced outs of the D18 to the LDVI+. Many balanced DAC’s can drive both outputs at the same time without a problem. I own several balanced DAC’s and in one case the unbalanced outs sound better than the balanced side. Have you tired the unbalanced out from the D18 to the A18 and noticed what differences there are?



I must admit I've only been using the D18 & A18 with balanced connection ,but I think I'll give the single ended connections a listen while I wait for the LD,thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## naimless

zenpunk said:


> That was mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If only you had posted that a few days earlier! checked the for sale forum before I ordered there were none available,oh well.


----------



## varyV

Can someone comment on how the VI+ plays with the LCD 3? I'm thinking about picking up the Little Dot and the Yulong A18 and returning the one which does worse. I'll be running balanced all out from a Yulong D18.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





varyv said:


> Can someone comment on how the VI+ plays with the LCD 3? I'm thinking about picking up the Little Dot and the Yulong A18 and returning the one which does worse. I'll be running balanced all out from a Yulong D18.


 
  I haven't heard the LCD3 yet but I'm willing to bet my collection that the VI+ will do almost everything just as good as the A18/D18.


----------



## baronbeehive

Only one thing puzzles me about Little Dot, why don't they do a higher output amp for speakers as well as a headphone amp, then they would have everything covered? I for one would be in the market if they did! Sorry about the slightly off piste post!


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





baronbeehive said:


> Only one thing puzzles me about Little Dot, why don't they do a higher output amp for speakers as well as a headphone amp, then they would have everything covered? I for one would be in the market if they did! Sorry about the slightly off piste post!


 
  It isn't that simple. For one thing, good irons are expensive - and they'll get fierce competition from other Chinese companies which made some really good sounding stuff (and in large quantity so they already got a price advantage, not to mention exposure to the market).


----------



## john57

It would cost a lot more to built tube speakers amps and the shipping costs for delivery from China will be very high. What many people do is to use the Little Dots as a pre-amp to a SS amp or in my case to an active powered speakers in addition to headphones. My airmotiv 6 monitors have 110 RMS watts for the woofer and 100 watts RMS for the tweeter. You will be somewhat limited in choices to speakers that have high efficiency for tube speaker amps. For example I have  pair of QuickSIlver M135 mono tube amps which will equal in power to the built in amps of my Emotiva Airmotiv6 but they weight about 70lb each. Like the pervious poster, good irons are expensive.


----------



## naimless

I finally received my mk6+ and I have a couple of questions for any existing owners,I've had to temporarily connect it to my dac (Yulong D18) with a single ended cable,I'm waiting for some longer XLR cables to arrive.The 4 pin XLR on the front only seems to work when I plug another pair of headphones into the rear 6.3mm jack socket,is this because I'm using the rca's to connect the amp or is there a fault?Also I have had to turn the volume upto between 80 &90 just to hear it and that's on both front XLR & rear jack socket.I must admit I haven't checked the gain settings yet,I don't know what the amp comes set to.The headphones im using are a balanced hd650 and a momentum at the moment.
I hope this isn't faulty I don't want to have to send this back to China.


----------



## john57

If you have to turn up the volume to 80 to 90 for the HD650 you do have a fault. Originally the LD VI was for balanced mode only and they added the single ended inputs later on which makes it the + version. I am using the balanced inputs from my source and the balanced outputs on the back to my monitors. The front balanced still works fine for my balanced headphones and the 6.3 on the rear works fine also. I would wait until you get the balanced cables and see if that is going to fix the issue. I have not fully tested the single ended inputs on my LD for balanced outputs on the front.  Does the right meter turns on after three minutes?  I am assuming that you are using the Yulong D18 at full output.


----------



## naimless

john57 said:


> If you have to turn up the volume to 80 to 90 for the HD650 you do have a fault. Originally the LD VI was for balanced mode only and they added the single ended inputs later on which makes it the + version. I am using the balanced inputs from my source and the balanced outputs on the back to my monitors. The front balanced still works fine for my balanced headphones and the 6.3 on the rear works fine also. I would wait until you get the balanced cables and see if that is going to fix the issue. I have not fully tested the single ended inputs on my LD for balanced outputs on the front.  Does the right meter turns on after three minutes?  I am assuming that you are using the Yulong D18 at full output.



Thanks john57 I'll wait until I get my balanced cables before I do anything drastic,yes the right meter switches on after about 3 minutes.What did you mean by "using the d18 at full output" I didn't think the output was adjustable.


----------



## john57

You are right I check the D18 manual and it states:
   
_***Notice: Both of the RCA and XLR line level outputs are NOT controlled by the Volume, and it is always in full output
 level. Any equipment connected to these outputs must has a proper volume control, otherwise it might be
 damaged. It might harm the hearing of audience too. We are not responsible for any kind of such results._


----------



## naimless

john57 said:


> You are right I check the D18 manual and it states:
> 
> _***Notice: Both of the RCA and XLR line level outputs are NOT controlled by the Volume, and it is always in full output
> 
> ...



Ah I thought it was,you had me worried for a minute.
I've just checked on the amp(I had it running to burn it in )and it appears that the right channel has died,the meter has dropped to 40 from 80 and also 1 of the power tubes doesn't appear to be glowing as brightly as the others,it seems that there will be a trip to china in this amps future,dammit!


----------



## thejr007

So I'm totally new to the tube amp scene, and balanced headphones as well; and decided to make a decent first step to see what all the fuss is about.
   
  Ordered LD MK VIII SE with the LD Dac I and cans from Moon Audio with his specialty cable, Senh HD650-With 5' Silver Dragon V3 Headphone Cable-Neutrik Gold Plated 4pin Male XLR
   
  Wondering if any MK VIII SE owners who've used hd650's which tubes were best for them?
   
  Also wondering if any good reading for do's n don'ts when it comes to tube amps.
   
  Regards, Mike.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





thejr007 said:


> So I'm totally new to the tube amp scene, and balanced headphones as well; and decided to make a decent first step to see what all the fuss is about.
> 
> Ordered LD MK VIII SE with the LD Dac I and cans from Moon Audio with his specialty cable, Senh HD650-With 5' Silver Dragon V3 Headphone Cable-Neutrik Gold Plated 4pin Male XLR
> 
> ...


 
  The most important thing is absolutely do not replace/pull out tubes while the amp is still on. Also do not plug/unplug headphone while the amp is still on.


----------



## thejr007

Some clarification in regards to the tube types needed for the MK8 would be nice; 4 power and 2 that the sound goes through I'm guessing?
   
  Reading all these posts and people say these are great but not sure if I need 2 or 4, and what about spares, or matched pairs how important it is?
   
   
  I'm just gonna list off some tubes and if someone could shed some light on the subject it would be much appreciated!
   
  TUNG-SOL-6AS7G 5998 ECC230
   
  6SL7GT / VT-229
   
  Tesla E83CC/ECC803S/12ax7
   
  RCA 6AS7G and RCA 5691
   
  Guess what I'm really asking is what are the cream of the crop for this amp?
   
  Regards, Mike.


----------



## khaine1711

You can't use those Octal preamp tubes (6sn7/5998/6SL7) with the Mk8. The 8 uses 4x 6h30 and 2x 12AT7 tube. Generally speaking, the sound of tubes depends on the circuit they're put in. There's no guarantee that one tube that is nice with one amp, will sound nice with other.
   
  The most revered 6h30 tube is the "supertube" (6h30P-DR) - they're really expensive these days though. Just try to play with cheaper tubes first.
   
  12AT7 there's a whole family of these tubes (12ax7/12at7/12bh7/12au7/5814 etc etc) some got higher gain, some got lower gain. Usually, it's ok to replace a tube of the family with a lower/same gain variant but you should still check with David about which one is safe.


----------



## john57

I would say do not plug in the headphones until after the amp has warm up and right meter is showing okay.


----------



## john57

naimless
  Sorry that you are having problems and yes you need to work with the vendor to resolve your issue.


----------



## naimless

john57 said:


> naimless
> Sorry that you are having problems and yes you need to work with the vendor to resolve your issue.



Thanks,I will once I've received my XLR cables and doule checked exactly what's wrong with my amp,the cables seem to have been delayed in the post.


----------



## thejr007

Well I think I got the cream of the crop on their way... just ordered matched pairs 6N30P-DR 6H30 Pi SUPER TUBES 1979 REFLECTOR and SIEMENS ECC801S 12AT7 E81CC matched pair.
   
  Tingling with excitement to see the difference.


----------



## mab1376

I'm looking for a good balanced tube-based amp for my HD650's and also for my future HE-500's
   
  The VI seems like a great option, I've also had the Woo Audio WA22 in my sights, which do you guys think is better for my situation?
   
  Currently rocking a MK IV SE with my 650's which I love, but need more power for the HE-500's and want to move to balanced.


----------



## john57

For me the better comparison would be the WA5LE. The LD VI+ has two 80CM fans in it. Would that bother you? I enjoy my LD VI+ very much and the LD is a bit stronger than the WA22.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





john57 said:


> For me the better comparison would be the WA5LE. The LD VI+ has two 80CM fans in it. Would that bother you? I enjoy my LD VI+ very much and the LD is a bit stronger than the WA22.


 
  +9000.
   
  My personal experience and performance for pricepoint my VI+ offers makes any of the Woo's up until the WA5 expensive and not worth it. I've done direct comparison between the WA22 and my VI+ because I was going to buy one, I'm very very glad I didn't.


----------



## mab1376

the only thing the woo has is it uses a tube rectifier which is debatable whether or not that makes a difference.
   
  they both use 6080 power tubes. Definitely leaning towards the VI+


----------



## DefQon

For me the only thing the Woo has over my VI+ is the build quality and looks, sound imo doesn't come close for the price you pay for them.


----------



## alota

i think that the quality build of the MKVI is good. the only part with "some compromise" is the alps.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





alota said:


> i think that the quality build of the MKVI is good. the only part with "some compromise" is the alps.


 
  You can try putting an Alps RK50 inside


----------



## DefQon

For the price of the RK50 I'd rather buy another amp than dropping in an expensive pot like that. A Shallco or typical Goldpoint stepper would do.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> You can try putting an Alps RK50 inside


 
  too big
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the price is the same of the amplifier.
  but i know this pot


----------



## alota

Quote: 





defqon said:


> or typical Goldpoint stepper would do.


 
  two problems: the space in the interior and the fact that the alps is soldered in the pcb


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





alota said:


> two problems: the space in the interior and the fact that the alps is soldered in the pcb


 
  Yeh but a mini Goldpoint should fit and you can just solder wire leads from the pcb to the ends of the solder contacts on the pot itself. I haven't exactly done it with the Goldpoint exactly but I did use a custom Valab stepper for mine but yeah it is a very very tight sqeeze due to the PCB.


----------



## khaine1711

Or replace the pot with resistor, then run separate pre-amp.
   
  But I doubt any "pot"/preamp upgrade is worth the $$$ and effort.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Yeh but a mini Goldpoint should fit and you can just solder wire leads from the pcb to the ends of the solder contacts on the pot itself. I haven't exactly done it with the Goldpoint exactly but I did use a custom Valab stepper for mine but yeah it is a very very tight sqeeze due to the PCB.


 
  i didn´t know about the goldpoint
  whit the valb you´ve a good improvement?


----------



## john57

I wonder why Little Dot decided to use the pot with the motor attached but not connected. Either way I use my LD VI+ pot as a limiter and use another method to control the signal going into the pre-amp.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





john57 said:


> I wonder why Little Dot decided to use the pot with the motor attached but not connected. Either way I use my LD VI+ pot as a limiter and use another method to control the signal going into the pre-amp.


 
  you´re right! i also never understood.
  about the use of a preamp, i think that the MKVI is more a power amplifier.
  the use of preamplifier or a source with a good output section(higher voltage)is the best solution


----------



## naimless

Just to keep those interested up to date with my problems with the mkVI+,the vender has been very helpful I was told that the power tubes need to be inserted in order (who knew?),they are numbered on the base,once this was done the volume problems disappeared ,now the only problem is the massive volume imbalance caused by the no.4 tube dying just got to wait for the replacement they are sending then I can get down to some serious listening,also I've now got my XLR cables which helped.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





naimless said:


> Just to keep those interested up to date with my problems with the mkVI+,the vender has been very helpful I was told that the power tubes need to be inserted in order (who knew?),they are numbered on the base,once this was done the volume problems disappeared ,now the only problem is the massive volume imbalance caused by the no.4 tube dying just got to wait for the replacement they are sending then I can get down to some serious listening,also I've now got my XLR cables which helped.


 
  well...good news and welcome to MKVI tubes
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  seriously:when i bought the tubes, was complicated to found a good pairing for 4 tubes


----------



## alvin sawdust

Another good replacement pot for the alps is the Dact ct-2 stepped attenuator.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Another good replacement pot for the alps is the Dact ct-2 stepped attenuator.


 
  there is space for the 4 channel version?


----------



## mab1376

Quote: 





alota said:


> there is space for the 4 channel version?


 
   
  As a potential future VI+ owner, the only low tier component is the volume pot. The Woo uses a nice DACT stepped attenuator.
   
  But I love tube rolling and since the WA22 uses 6SN7 which are crazy pricy I don't think i'll be getting that amp.


----------



## alvin sawdust

alota said:


> there is space for the 4 channel version?



Good point, further investigation would be required. Forgot about the balanced requirements.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Good point, further investigation would be required. Forgot about the balanced requirements.


 
  i had the 4 channel dact in my beta and i opened my little-dot.i´ve serious doubts.
  p.s.: happy 1000 head´fier to me


----------



## khaine1711

I was snooping around Chinese sites on the new Yulong Da8, and happens to see the new Little Dot Mk9 pcb. Single-ended version of the Mk6, in mkIV chassis


----------



## mab1376

link?


----------



## khaine1711

If you can read Chinese
   
http://bbs2.erji.com/read.php?tid=1453556&fpage=0&toread=&page=1
   

   
  Basically it uses the same topology as the Mk6 and Mk8; 2x 6080, 1 6H9C, 1 RCA in, 1 Preamp out, external gain switch. Chassis is same size as the Mk IV, but I guess 1 less hole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## alvin sawdust

alota said:


> i had the 4 channel dact in my beta and i opened my little-dot.i´ve serious doubts.
> p.s.: happy 1000 head´fier to me



Shame really as the Dact is much better than the Alps blue.


----------



## alvin sawdust

khaine1711 said:


> If you can read Chinese
> 
> http://bbs2.erji.com/read.php?tid=1453556&fpage=0&toread=&page=1
> 
> ...


----------



## john57

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Shame really as the Dact is much better than the Alps blue.


 
  That may be true and the Alps blue does feel a bit rubbery. However I am not planning to use the pot as much.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  [size=11pt]It may not have the meter and fans. I believe that Sword Yang was designing DAC’s for awhile.  It also confirmed to me that Sword Yang has not decided to branch out to speaker tube amps.  The half MKVI will fill the hole in the Little Dot line up. [/size]


----------



## DefQon

Earlier VI's were using motorised ALP's? Anyway, if there is no sound imbalance at lower levels there is no need to swap out the pot. 
   
  Come to think of it, it's been almost 5 years since the VI and VII were released as LD's flagship amp's, when the heck are they going to release a new flagship?


----------



## khaine1711

He could revive the limited prototype he made when the 6 was released (4x 6C33C + 6sl7 + 6sn7). Preferably in a larger chassis though - would be fire hazard with 4x 6c33 in that small case
   

   
  I kind of want a mk6+; the cost of rolling 6550/12ax7 in my current amp is killing my wallet


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]You could think of molding the VI with different caps and wiring and the like if you wanted to try something different. Maybe a 300B based amp?[/size]


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> He could revive the limited prototype he made when the 6 was released (4x 6C33C + 6sl7 + 6sn7). Preferably in a larger chassis though - would be fire hazard with 4x 6c33 in that small case
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of want a mk6+; the cost of rolling 6550/12ax7 in my current amp is killing my wallet


 
  I'm glad he never released this design, because he did he would be liable for houses being burnt down. A chassis of this size for that amount of tubes is a complete no no. To put things in perspective even the design of the VI+ isn't well thought out, with no ventilation within the PCB area and crappy PC fan used, it's no wonder the first batch had problems. I'm glad I modded mine for my air flow, but seriously the chassis is just too small, if it was using P2P wiring things would've been more better, but the amp would not be at this price due to the effort involved with P2P wiring.
   
  Quote: 





john57 said:


> [size=11pt]You could think of molding the VI with different caps and wiring and the like if you wanted to try something different. Maybe a 300B based amp?[/size]


 
  300B based amp? He would need to go P2P or use a bigger chassis.
   
  What I really want is a balanced amp that runs on 12AU/T/X7 tubes that can also take 6DJ8's or 6922 and have quad EL84's for output.


----------



## alvin sawdust

defqon said:


> Earlier VI's were using motorised ALP's? Anyway, if there is no sound imbalance at lower levels there is no need to swap out the pot.
> 
> Come to think of it, it's been almost 5 years since the VI and VII were released as LD's flagship amp's, when the heck are they going to release a new flagship?



have you compared the Alps to the Dact?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> have you compared the Alps to the Dact?


 
  In this amp? No. I have used a few Shallco's, Goldpoints, Nobles and few other custom stepped attenuators. I have used amps that used the Dact steppers but not in my own diy creations. Personally the typical RK27 blue alps are fine for most applications and they don't exhibit low level channel imbalance, generics have. Upgrade to steppers are useful if you feel that you want precision gain from low volume (db) to high volume.


----------



## alota

Quote: 





defqon said:


> In this amp? No. I have used a few Shallco's, Goldpoints, Nobles and few other custom stepped attenuators. I have used amps that used the Dact steppers but not in my own diy creations. Personally the typical RK27 blue alps are fine for most applications and they don't exhibit low level channel imbalance, generics have. Upgrade to steppers are useful if you feel that you want precision gain from low volume (db) to high volume.


 
  you´re right about the alps.
  but in the MKVI is the RK27? i ask because the RK27 is blue and the pot in the MKVI is black


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





alota said:


> you´re right about the alps.
> but in the MKVI is the RK27? i ask because the RK27 is blue and the pot in the MKVI is black


 
  The MK VI has a motorised ALP's pot. I was just talking about the RK27 in general.
   
  Picture from cafe zeenuts (post 49 on this page)


----------



## alota

iknow but i opened the amplifier and seems to me different compared to the pictures of motorized rk27


----------



## DefQon

LD uses a lot of those motorised ALPS in there amps.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I'm glad he never released this design, because* he did he would be liable for houses being burnt down*. A chassis of this size for that amount of tubes is a complete no no. To put things in perspective even the design of the VI+ isn't well thought out, with no ventilation within the PCB area and crappy PC fan used, it's no wonder the first batch had problems. I'm glad I modded mine for my air flow, but seriously the chassis is just too small, if it was using P2P wiring things would've been more better, but the amp would not be at this price due to the effort involved with P2P wiring.
> 
> 300B based amp? He would need to go P2P or use a bigger chassis.
> 
> What I really want is a balanced amp that runs on 12AU/T/X7 tubes that can also take 6DJ8's or 6922 and have quad EL84's for output.


 
  Reminds me of this. 
   

   
  Ten were made, wonder how they're doing now.
   
  I'm pretty lukewarm about El84, or pentodes for that matter. Maybe coz I play around too much with speakers, and 80% of the tube amp are Pentodes running in PP (El34/El84/6550/kt88/kt120). Also I think most of the current headphones (sans the He-6 and the wharfedale) won't need the kind of power that 4x Pentodes put out.
   
  Could be nice if Little Dot decided to do a 6C33C OTL tube amp though, like a poor man version of the Zana Deux. Good SETs or PP will break the bank, and people would run to EC/DNA/EAR/Manley before Little Dot =p.


----------



## DefQon

What is that big ventilation fan for and lols at the nvidia (think it was a mockery made for the "leaf blower" graphics card they released many moons ago.
   
  Only reason why I said "would love to see an amp using EL84's and 12""7's) is because I already have a bunch of these tubes already for my other speaker amp's. Saves me money big time so don't need to dish out more green paper for new tubes.


----------



## khaine1711

Good old fermi day . Still plague Nvidia till this day, just like 10 or 20 years later people may still ask "Does the Lyr still blowing up headphones?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Btw did you order the 380D with or without volume control? It's next on my audition list, together with the BMC Dac. Not sure if I want to sit 8 hours on train just for a day at the dealer's though.


----------



## DefQon

Hehe, I had 3 of those 480's in my old comp. Had to sell it off due to noise and heat but the performance was exceptional (except power draw, heat and noise).
   
  Haven't ordered the 380D yet, it's on my To buy list as well as the Lampi. I have heard both and I loved them very much, if I was still employed I would've bought them ages ago. But there are a few DAC's that I want to try before I make the move on buying them, the Weiss 202 and the Electrocompaniet ECD-2. Also might be getting this: http://www.moon-audio.com/audio-equipment/dacs/bmc-pure-dac.html# just unsure yet.


----------



## khaine1711

Try this too =p, incidentally my speaker dealer (no experience in headphone whatsoever) call it "liquid gold". Claimed to be better than the Briscati/Weiss Medea, sadly it costs as much too. Denmark does makes awesome stuffs.
   
  I had my eyes on the Puredac too, but the thing keeps getting delayed. Also if it's gonna be ass-priced (1600GBP instead of 1600 usd), might as well get the bigger brother (Dac1 Pre)


----------



## DefQon

That sure looks expensive, looks like its more for the professional high end market with those rack mount sides. I thought Briscatti went down under while ago? (Might be different one).


----------



## khaine1711

It gets an USB upgrade and an transformer upgrade; not sure if that even changes anything. It's not getting much popularity around here due to Nagra/Weiss/T+A/dCS, and again, the half ass pricing (7k GBP instead of USD).
   
  Pro stuff does look interesting; pricing isn't attractive though. The USB converter suggested to use with the AX24 above also costs 2x as much as the Offramp fully loaded. There's also the Forsell Mdac, Burl B2, Larvy Gold, hopefully 20 years later I can afford them to see if they live up to their names (and price)


----------



## mab1376

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> If you can read Chinese
> 
> http://bbs2.erji.com/read.php?tid=1453556&fpage=0&toread=&page=1
> 
> ...


 
   
  Kinda looks like the WA6 topology or half of the MK VI+
   
  also is the 6SL7 a direct replacement for the 6H9C?


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> Kinda looks like the WA6 topology or half of the MK VI+
> 
> also is the 6SL7 a direct replacement for the 6H9C?


 
  The Woo 6, or 6SE, or 22 for that matter, are transformer coupled amps. The 6 and 6se are SET, while the 22 is PP. The one with the most similarity to the LD6 is the Woo 22. 
   
  The LD6 and LD8 takes a quite unusual approach, OCL + PP, while using solid state rectifier. The Little Dot 9, even though there's few info; but the designer has state that it's the SE version of the Little Dot 6. Which mean the two 6080 will mostly works in a PP configuration - meaning it's not a SET amp like the 6/6se.
   
  SET and PP are quite different in sound. Which is better I'll leave it to your ears =p. I'm a SET fan, but I do appreciate and love well-designed PP amplifier, even using one as we speak.
   
  Yes, 6SL7, 6h9c, 6su7 and 5691 are drop-in replacement.


----------



## mab1376

I'm really leaning away from the WA22 and towards the LD VI+.
   
  Yeah the tube rectifier would have been cool and all, but I'm not convinced that it would provide an actual benefit that's worth the price.
   
  Plus for such a comparable product, the price gap is HUGE ($1300 more for the 22). And as I mentioned the 6SN7 tubes are stupid pricy for the 22.
   
  Also the LD VI's lack of a DACT attenuator is a minus, but still not THAT big of a trade-off for all the power you get in return (5W into 120 ohms).
   
  I'm planning on using the HE-500, and maybe even the LCD2 down the line, so power is more of a priority. Especially since I still own a MK IV SE OTL amp.
   
  Just need to buy balanced interconnects and HP cables for the HD650 and the HE-500 that I don't even own yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Wish they had the Silver model on amazon so I could throw it on my amazon card  Probably for the best though, I'd like to do some more research first.
   
  One of the awesome benefits of Woo is I've actually talked to Jack Woo face to face at a local head-fi meet, since David from LittleDot is in China, not really an option.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> ......I'm planning on using the HE-500, and maybe even the LCD2 down the line, so power is more of a priority. Especially since I still own a MK IV SE OTL amp.
> 
> Just need to buy balanced interconnects and HP cables for the HD650 and the HE-500 that I don't even own yet ..........


 
  The HD650 and HE-500 are very different cans! I have the HE-500 and am completely sold by them, I don't think I'll ever want to change, even for the HE6! The sound is so warm, liquid and detailed. But I didn't like the HD600's which I had before at all, no emotion at all in the music. I also have a NuForce Icon HDP to play through Monitor Audio RX1 speakers - a similar price system to the LD/HE-500 but the LD/HiFiMan combo beats the pants off the speaker system.


----------



## mab1376

I demo'd the HE-500 at a head-fi meet on the hifiman EF6 amp, I was so impressed by how musical they were I immediately wanted them. It made me think of an open version of the Denon AH-D7000. Pretty much I've been saving to up my amp so i can properly drive them, then looking to finally pull the trigger on them.
   
  For less than the WA22 ($2000) I can get the HE-500 and the VI+ ($1600ish) not including the balanced cable for the hifhiman's.
   
  Which BTW can anyone recommend a good balanced cable for them around $100ish?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





defqon said:


> In this amp? No. I have used a few Shallco's, Goldpoints, Nobles and few other custom stepped attenuators. I have used amps that used the Dact steppers but not in my own diy creations. Personally the typical RK27 blue alps are fine for most applications and they don't exhibit low level channel imbalance, generics have. Upgrade to steppers are useful if you feel that you want precision gain from low volume (db) to high volume.


 
  I didn't have a channel imbalance with the alps blue but when the CT-2 replaced it there was quite a step up in clarity and resolution, everything sounded more real / live in short.
  Did you not find this to be the case with the better quality steppers you used?


----------



## baronbeehive

If you want to keep down your costs *mab1376* you could try asking HiFiMan to fit XLR connectors on to the SE cable when you order the cans, it is a bit cheeky but they were only to happy to do that for me when I bought mine and that was free of charge. I have mentioned this before but I don't think the HE-500's sound good on the silver cable so unless you want to get a good quality cable I much prefer the HE-6 copper cable and that was provided free as well by HiFiMan when I said that I preferred that. Great customer service I have to say.


----------



## khaine1711

I'd say DIY. The neutrik 4 pin is around 10 bucks, took at worst 10 mins to solder.
   
  It's pretty straightforward really; if you still need single ended function, leave ~30cm of wire connected to the TRS, then solder a 4 pin Neutrik female on that.


----------



## mab1376

Something like this would be perfect: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Head-Direct-HIFIMAN-OCC-balanced-headphone-Cable-for-HE-series-/251078470552?pt=US_MP3_Player_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a75716b98
   
  IMO that's way too expensive though for a cable.
   
  I looked into some moon-audio cables and I actually laughed at what they charge for a headphone cable! like, does it make me dinner too? its a wire!
   
  I'll definitely ask them when I order, do they manage their sales though amazon, or is it a sub-vendor?
   
  also DIY looks like a good option! not very good with soldering, but its not like there's a lot to do for a cable.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> Something like this would be perfect: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Head-Direct-HIFIMAN-OCC-balanced-headphone-Cable-for-HE-series-/251078470552?pt=US_MP3_Player_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a75716b98
> 
> IMO that's way too expensive though for a cable.
> 
> ...


 
  Cheapest vendor is Charleston cable - 90 bucks for 5", and 100 bucks for 10" - termination of your choice. Then there's headphonelounge - around 150 bucks a cable, main attraction is they use that German sleeving (I forgot the name) that people around here usually use for megabuck .... watercooling sleeving 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Neutrik XLR are really easy to DIY though. The solderable part can be pop out from the case, then put back in when you're done.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> Yes, 6SL7, 6h9c, 6su7 and 5691 are drop-in replacement.


 
  6SN7 also if you use an adaptor.
   
  Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> For less than the WA22 ($2000) I can get the HE-500 and the VI+ ($1600ish) not including the balanced cable for the hifhiman's.
> 
> Which BTW can anyone recommend a good balanced cable for them around $100ish?


 
  I've heard both (own the 6) and there was just no way I was going to drop in an extra $1200 (WA22 here is $2k) when the LD MK VI+ sounds just as good in almost every way. 6SN7 tubes are cheap, unless you go for a quad set of TS 5998's or WE 421A's or GEC brown base drop-in's.
   
  Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> I didn't have a channel imbalance with the alps blue but when the CT-2 replaced it there was quite a step up in clarity and resolution, everything sounded more real / live in short.
> Did you not find this to be the case with the better quality steppers you used?


 
  All the steppers I've used have been an incremental upgrade over the typical blue ALPS. But just for general applications the ALP's will do fine.
   
  Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> Something like this would be perfect: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Head-Direct-HIFIMAN-OCC-balanced-headphone-Cable-for-HE-series-/251078470552?pt=US_MP3_Player_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a75716b98
> 
> IMO that's way too expensive though for a cable.
> 
> ...


 
  Make you're own. Cables would be the last thing I'd worry about.
   
  Get your headphone, amp, source setup. Then make the little upgrades now and there, cables, interconnects etc.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





defqon said:


> 6SN7 also if you use an adaptor.
> 
> I've heard both (own the 6) and there was just no way I was going to drop in an extra $1200 (WA22 here is $2k) when the LD MK VI+ sounds just as good in almost every way. 6SN7 tubes are cheap, unless you go for a quad set of TS 5998's or WE 421A's or GEC brown base drop-in's.


 
  The WE 421 are insanely expensive though -  around 500 for a pair? 2 pair and you can buy yourself a second amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think one can use 12ax7 (adapter) with the 6 too; not sure about 7n7 though.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> The WE 421 are insanely expensive though -  around 500 for a pair? 2 pair and you can buy yourself a second amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah the prices of the WE 421 are really inflated and unjustified. From the 6SN7 thread Skylab (Rob) has em and he says the prices on the 421 are no where near worth the amount that goes on ebay and there are some evidence that it is equivalent to the 5998's. So, in other words you'd be paying extra if you pay more than $120 a tube for a 421. 
   
  Yep you can also use 12A*7 tubes as drop in substitutes for a 6SN7's place only if you have an adaptor for it. I've got 1 6SN7 to 12AU7 adaptor for my Darkvoice 336. But I still prefer the meatier sound of the 6SN7's compared to the dual triode 12A*7's.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





khaine1711 said:


> The WE 421 are insanely expensive though -  around 500 for a pair? 2 pair and you can buy yourself a second amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The 7N7 is the loctal version of 6SN7. I am currently using the 7AF7 Sylvania/Philco (Black Round plates) with an adapter which gives a very clear spacious sound in the LD VI+. One of my favorite tube sets.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





defqon said:


> All the steppers I've used have been an incremental upgrade over the typical blue ALPS. But just for general applications the ALP's will do fine.


 
  Well i have to say that if you can afford it and can fit it into your amp, the CT-2 is to my ears a worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## mab1376

David from little dot said this when asking if a DACT stepped attenuator could be installed as a factory upgrade:
   
  Hello Mark,
  
  Unfortunately not as the spacing on the circuit would not allow it.  The potentiometer used has exceptional performance however.  If you have any other questions or requests, please do not hesitate to ask!

 Best Regards,
 David


----------



## alota

i knew


----------



## rosgr63

Aldo you thought about it before haven't you?


----------



## alota

Quote: 





rosgr63 said:


> Aldo you thought about it before haven't you?


 
  of course!


----------



## stang

*Summary: *_MKVI+ or MKVIII SE for DT880 600ohm and possibly T1 in the future?_
   
  Hey everyone. I just (like a few hours ago) bought a Buffalo II DAC (should be here in about 7 days) and have been looking at balanced amps for the last couple of days (been out of the audiophile game for 2 years I think now). I definitely want tube because not only do I prefer the sound (though SS definitely holds its own), but because it would mean I would also be able to sell my Mad Ear+ HD as well as my M3 amplifier (couldn't go without a tube amp) thus helping me to buy a better (more expensive typically) amplifier. While I do listen to lots of metal and rock, which Grado's are essentially king at, I don't feel as though I will go back to Grado again (I wear my headphones 6+ hours at a time and I can't stand how Grado's feel on my head), not to mention there is something about Grado's which hurts my ears, even with my MAD Ear+ HD, which I really only bought for Grado's, so I don't feel bad letting it go anymore (I used to own HF-2s). My budget is around $800aud but I can stretch to $900 or so (photography is one expensive hobby so I need some cash for that as well 



). I have been looking at the Little Dot MKVI+ and MKVIII SE quite a bit. Since I use DT880 600ohm and would most likely upgrade to the T1s in the future, would you all say that either of these amplifiers would be a great choice for me? And out of those two, which would you lean toward if you were in my situation? I understand the MKVIII SE was essentially designed with 600ohm beyers and the like in mind, but what does the improvement sound like (I doubt I will get an answer to that as I am sure not many, if any of you have compared both amps to one another with 600ohm beyers). Do you think that the MKVIII SE is worth the price increase and the fact that I will be somewhat limited to high impedance headphones (don't take this too literally, as I know the MKVIII SE will still do great, but there are many amps out there that I assume would do better with lower impedance headphones at this price range, including the MKVI+). However, I haven't heard either so that statement may not be true. Feel free to tell me otherwise  Thanks in advance.


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





stang said:


> *Summary: *_MKVI+ or MKVIII SE for DT880 600ohm and possibly T1 in the future?_
> 
> Hey everyone. I just (like a few hours ago) bought a Buffalo II DAC (should be here in about 7 days) and have been looking at balanced amps for the last couple of days (been out of the audiophile game for 2 years I think now). I definitely want tube because not only do I prefer the sound (though SS definitely holds its own), but because it would mean I would also be able to sell my Mad Ear+ HD as well as my M3 amplifier (couldn't go without a tube amp) thus helping me to buy a better (more expensive typically) amplifier. While I do listen to lots of metal and rock, which Grado's are essentially king at, I don't feel as though I will go back to Grado again (I wear my headphones 6+ hours at a time and I can't stand how Grado's feel on my head), not to mention there is something about Grado's which hurts my ears, even with my MAD Ear+ HD, which I really only bought for Grado's, so I don't feel bad letting it go anymore (I used to own HF-2s). My budget is around $800aud but I can stretch to $900 or so (photography is one expensive hobby so I need some cash for that as well
> 
> ...


 
   
  Although I have not heard either amp I am interested in the VI+ myself as a possible future purchase.
  In your position I would go with the VI+.
   
  Its cheaper, more versatile, far more powerful and thereby giving far more headphone options in the future.
   
  Any slight SQ advantage the VIII has with high impedance phones can easily be eradicated via tube rolling.
   
  personally I don't think you are going to get a better tube amp for the money than the VI+.


----------



## stang

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Although I have not heard either amp I am interested in the VI+ myself as a possible future purchase.
> In your position I would go with the VI+.
> 
> Its cheaper, more versatile, far more powerful and thereby giving far more headphone options in the future.
> ...


 
   
  The fact that the VI+ is cheaper certainly is attractive, but doesn't bother me too much since I would rather just buy once and not be disappointed. However, the fact that it delivers more current (I believe this is the case?) means that it will, as you said, give far more headphone options in the future. On the other hand, the DT880s and T1s, due to their high impedance rely on more voltage compared to current, so the MKVIII SE does better in this department. However, step outside of this 600ohm zone and the MKVI+ will probably easily win. This is a tough decision. By the SQ advtange of the VIII SE being negated by upgrading to better tubes in the VI+, do you mean that tubes would make a larger impact to SQ than more volts would? Because you can always upgrade the tubes in the MKVIII SE, but you already start off with less money, so depending on ones financial situation, you could achieve better SQ with the VI+.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Although I have not heard either amp I am interested in the VI+ myself as a possible future purchase.
> In your position I would go with the VI+.
> 
> Its cheaper, more versatile, far more powerful and thereby giving far more headphone options in the future.
> ...


 
  The whole different part choice and different power/preamp tubes can't be "eradicated" by tube rolling despite the similar topology, especially since they don't even use the same tubes.
   
  That's like saying you can make 300B sounds like 845 or 211 with just tube rolling.


----------



## john57

My feeling is that both versions can sound good. The LD VI+ can swing 70V p-p into 120 ohms which is about 10v higher than the VIII. The VIII has special coupling caps for the driver tubes which may improve the sound quality along with different tubes with a different "house" sound than the VI+. You can order the LD VI+ with upgraded coupling caps and silver wire on special order as I was told here.


----------



## zenpunk

I listened to the T1 on my MK6+ for a month and was surprised how good it sounded considering the high Z of the T1. I also heard the T1 briefly on somebody else MK8 and the sound was also very good, slightly more refined and smoother but I  preferred the bolder and more transparent sound of the MK6, which is also likely to be more versatile as mentioned by others.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





zenpunk said:


> I listened to the T1 on my MK6+ for a month and was surprised how good it sounded considering the high Z of the T1. I also heard the T1 briefly on somebody else MK8 and the sound was also very good, slightly more refined and smoother but I  preferred the bolder and more transparent sound of the MK6, which is also likely to be more versatile as mentioned by others.


 
  T1 is less impacted by the High Z as it has high impedance. Besides since it's designed for the K1K, I doubt the output impedance will be higher than 120 ohm. Sadly we'll probably never know what's the real output Z of the 6 and the 8, unless one day Mr Yang publish the spec but I highly suspect it changes (slightly) with whatever tubes you put in. Well as long as it sounds good, who cares.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





alota said:


> iknow but i opened the amplifier and seems to me different compared to the pictures of motorized rk27


 
  It appears to be a ALPS RK16814MGA0K pot. Never quite understand why LD is using a motorized pot in several products without any motor connections.


----------



## khaine1711

On other news, the 9 would be ready in 10 days I think - but the price isn't that pretty =p. Lovely form factor though.


----------



## DefQon

Look's like a contender against the WA3 and some of the mid level DV/La Figarro range. Would be interested on what the enclosure would look like, hopefully David uses some decent sized enclosure with plenty of ventilation and no opt for fans like the MK VI+.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Look's like a contender against the WA3 and some of the mid level DV/La Figarro range. Would be interested on what the enclosure would look like, hopefully David uses some decent sized enclosure with plenty of ventilation and no opt for fans like the MK VI+.


 
  He used the old Mk 4SE enclosure, of course the top will be drilled with 3 big holes instead of 4 small hole 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  The Chinese does make some fascinating stuff. There's also a transformer coupled amp (not little dot) with 1 6sn7 + 1 6BQ5/ 2.5W @ 32 and 300Z, with its own outboard PSU, the demo rig is shown with the Simaudio Eclipse CDP


----------



## DefQon

Doesn't sound promising with the MK 4SE enclosure. I just had a look on erji, looks like a good candidate for tube rolling but judging from the schematics the amp looks very similar to another amp kit while back on ebay from a Ukranian seller. Given the potential of the LD amp's, I would love to see him go p2p design, which runs cooler, easy to mod/measure/troubleshoot, neater as well and importantly sounds better.


----------



## john57

Not crazy with the MK 4SE enclosure unless he adds more ventilation on top otherwise it is a oven. The LD MKVI+ has holes around the tube sockets for some of the hot air to escape. Even with the Schiit Lyr I am trying has ventilation on top as well on both sides and still gets warm.  The issue with the P2P design is the DC servo circuit has to be added. Otherwise large output coupling caps will be needed at the output and will be a very tight squeeze in the MK 4SE enclosure. P2P does not always improve the sound and depends on the circuit design you are using.


----------



## DefQon

Well in most cases for OTL or SE tubes p2p is massive benefit and keeps things well ventilated not to mention very good with ease for troubleshooting should something stuff up. Using a PCB is fine but it also leaves hot spots in the amplifier itself if used in a small enclosure, this is what I was referring to with p2p in my previous post as with the VI + amp I have. But given at the price LD amp's are at, there is almost always a sacriface somewhere to prevent high prices.


----------



## stang

Tomorrow I plan (not feeling the best though) to go to a local audio store and compare some headphones (want to try out LCD-2 again) which will help me determine what kind of future headphone purchases I could make which would of course have a big impact on what kind of headphone amp to purchase. Unfortunately they don't stock any Little Dot products, but not to worry. If I really like the LCD-2 or some other low impedance cans, MKVI+ for sure over the MKVIII SE (there may be other amps I could look at as well, but there aren't many balanced tube amps for under $1000). Also, if I decide on the MKVI+, are there any worthwhile upgrades such as upgraded coupling caps or silver wire as mentioned here that I should ask for to be applied to the amp while it's being made?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





stang said:


> Tomorrow I plan (not feeling the best though) to go to a local audio store and compare some headphones (want to try out LCD-2 again) which will help me determine what kind of future headphone purchases I could make which would of course have a big impact on what kind of headphone amp to purchase. Unfortunately they don't stock any Little Dot products, but not to worry. If I really like the LCD-2 or some other low impedance cans, MKVI+ for sure over the MKVIII SE (there may be other amps I could look at as well, but there aren't many balanced tube amps for under $1000). Also, if I decide on the MKVI+, are there any worthwhile upgrades such as upgraded coupling caps or silver wire as mentioned here that I should ask for to be applied to the amp while it's being made?


 
  Hey we are both from Melbourne too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Coupling caps and silver wiring is the given upgrades for the amp. I modded mine myself along with other upgrades, you should head over to Addicted to Audio in Kew and ask George to audition the LCD2's/HD800's (or any other headphones of your interest) on the WA22 amp. To me and some here who have owned both or heard them, the MK VI+ is a step higher over the WA22. Trust me the VI+ is a killer, John will agree with me on this one, the amp may be cheap but once you start tube rolling, the $$$ will be going out easily.


----------



## stang

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Hey we are both from Melbourne too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's actually where I'm heading to tomorrow (hopefully) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I emailed George and he said I can compare the T1 and LCD-2 (the two I requested) and bring in my own DT880 to compare and also use my own laptop with my music on it. If they WA22 is out on display I will surely try and give it a go and I suppose that will give me some kind of reference of what quality sound to expect from the MKVI+. I'm assuming almost all of the headphones are single ended, so not a 100% accurate test, but close enough. Hopefully the store isn't too busy so that I can sit down for a little while and properly compare some gear. And yes, I realise tubes can get quite expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm very good at saving and buying little things all the time though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 (as in up to $200 items, I'm terrible at saving much more than $500, I always end up spending it), so I know I will definitely have a few tubes by the end of the year if I end up going with a tube amp. I'm grateful my MAD Ear+ HD came with a number of tubes for me to play with.


----------



## DefQon

George will be able to assist with providing some of the ALO (last time I went) balanced cables if he gives the go with you listening through the WA22 for the LCD2's but not sure about the T1's unless he has an adaptor for 6.3mm to 4 pin xlr or so. Remember running a balanced headphone out of a balanced amp doesn't mean you are running it balanced, your source/dac has provide the balanced input and then via balanced out to the headphones. But yeah have fun, I know I do when I do end up going there.


----------



## stang

Quote: 





defqon said:


> George will be able to assist with providing some of the ALO (last time I went) balanced cables if he gives the go with you listening through the WA22 for the LCD2's but not sure about the T1's unless he has an adaptor for 6.3mm to 4 pin xlr or so. Remember running a balanced headphone out of a balanced amp doesn't mean you are running it balanced, your source/dac has provide the balanced input and then via balanced out to the headphones. But yeah have fun, I know I do when I do end up going there.


 
   
  I actually have a balanced DAC on the way to me (Buffalo II). But yeah, in store, if I am allowed to try out balanced, I will make sure to connect the amp to a balanced DAC.


----------



## john57

[size=11pt]The WA22 does have SE headphone output which has the same power output as the balanced outs. You could get better sound from balanced headphones because of the better quality of cable but not power-wise from the WA22. The WA22 requires a balanced source in order to reach full power for the outputs. There has been a long discussion on the Woo forum about the WA22 balanced topology. The LD MK6+ on the other hand does have stronger balanced outs.  I wanted to apology if this information is already known to some.[/size]


----------



## DefQon

What tubes you rocking in your VI+ now John?
   
  Also to add on my experience with the WA22 I did not sense any sound improvements changing from SE to Balanced out via balanced DAC.


----------



## john57

Still using the Bendix graphite tubes and I switch over from the NU 6SL7GT to the heavy gettered Sylvania/Philco 7F7 tube which are more quiet and have better detail and of course with adapters. I brought a whole box cheap with NOS 7N7,7AF7 and the 7F7 tubes. I also have good luck with the 6C8G tubes and they are easier to match than the 6F8G tubes. I tend to look for good value in tubes without comprising sound quality.


----------



## DefQon

Had a few of those Bendix graphites, tank build and very heavy due to the graphite.


----------



## naimless

Finally got my Mk6+ sorted out ,one of the power tubes had cracked so I've had to wait for a replacement to come from China,now that I can use the amp properly I wondered if any body could give some advice on where to start with tube rolling on a very limited budget,is it best to start with the driver tubes or power tubes,is matching necessary,what are the drop in replacements for both ? Don't really want to get into adapters or other adjustments just yet.


Thanks.


----------



## DefQon

Go through this thread or look into the Little Dot tube rolling thread.


----------



## baronbeehive

Well maybe I won't need LD to build a tube speaker amp after all. I'm using my mkvi+ as a preamp into a nuforce icon-2 power amp terminating in Monitor Audio RX1's. The combination is fantastic. I was listening especially for hard sounding snare drums, and annoying splashy high hat and cymbals, the curse of digital amplification. I have also listened to some Beatles remasters. The Beatles have been remastered pretty well and manage to sound great with the pre in the system, the recordings which were originally very harsh and poor sounding are very acceptable now and have a very good amount of detail retained despite the remastering. And for the other music I have listened to, some of which was starting to annoy me over the digital system I had, even though the icon-2 is quite soft sounding, it all sounds much better, fuller sounding, and no hint of harshness now. I could listen to it all day now...... and that could pose it's own problems! The system sounds very like the headphone system I have, see previous posts, detail and sound is similar but obviously slightly fuller in the bass with the speakers. All in all I'm very pleased with it. Also no hum using the SE headphone outs.


----------



## stang

Just got my MKVI+. Only took 2 days from Hong Kong to Melbourne, Australia. It sure is beautiful


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote: 





stang said:


> Just got my MKVI+. Only took 2 days from Hong Kong to Melbourne, Australia. It sure is beautiful


 
  That's great! You're in for some serious fun, I'm still enjoying mine several years on and it's not stopping yet!!


----------



## DefQon

His journey has only begun, he still needs to do the tube rolling, hehe.


----------



## baronbeehive

I forgot to point that out!!


----------



## jzono1

I'm thinking about replacing both my dac and my amp to go balanced, and the mk8 is a very interesting candidate.

Currently I feed my T1s from an audio gd nfb3 and a ld mk3.

I think I saw something about fans earlier in this thread. How is the noise level of the mk8 itself? I'm *very* picky when it comes to noise. (The heaters on my mk3 bothers me...)


----------



## seaice

The MK8 has no fan.


----------



## jzono1

I thought so, but I figured I'd ask anyway. (Didn't see any in the pictures of the insides that I could find.)

Does it have any other noise when it is on?


----------



## seaice

I have experiences with 2 units of the MK8se. One is humming very silently (the very weak hum can be heard from 0.5m and less) and the second unit is totally quiet. I am extremely sensitive to all parasite sounds and there is no real issue with audible noise. I believe that you should hear nothing in normal circumstances.


----------



## jzono1

Cool, ty. It's kinda hard to find information about this without asking someone else who minds parasitic sounds. I'm fortunate enough to have a *very* low noise floor.

How bright are the current readouts?

Am I just bad at looking, or is it supposed to be hard to find a detailed review of the mk8se?

Is it a good choice for my T1s?


----------



## seaice

Sorry, I can not comment on the synergy with your T1. I use the MKVIIIse with my Sennheiser HD800. I have never tried the amp and T1s together but the MKVIIIse pairs greatly with my HD800. The synergy is better than A-GD Phoenix/HD800 combo. I hope that someone has the MIVIIIse with T1s and can provide you the info you are looking for.


----------



## GrindingThud

Mk9? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Dot-MK9-6N9P-6080-2-tube-OCL-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-AMP-/251319619395?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3a83d10f43


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Mk9? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Dot-MK9-6N9P-6080-2-tube-OCL-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-AMP-/251319619395?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3a83d10f43


 
  Look back a few pages =p.
   
  It's been out for a month but isn't listed/updated on the English page of little dot. There's only a few impressions in the chinese forum.


----------



## reiserFS

Odd, David doesn't list this one in the forums.
  Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Mk9? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Dot-MK9-6N9P-6080-2-tube-OCL-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-AMP-/251319619395?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3a83d10f43


----------



## Carlitos

is the mk vi+ more powerful than the 337se for the hd600's?


----------



## john57

Quote: 





carlitos said:


> is the mk vi+ more powerful than the 337se for the hd600's?


 
  Yes and the mk VI+ uses four output 6080/6AS7 tubes not two and has a [size=medium]maximum[/size]
   of 5 watts into 120 ohms. The mk VI6+ also is a fully balanced amp and can drive active speakers as well.


----------



## [OverDrive]

john57 said:


> Yes and the mk VI+ uses four output 6080/6AS7 tubes not two and has a maximum
> of 5 watts into 120 ohms. The mk VI6+ also is a fully balanced amp and can drive active speakers as well.



Hello, 
What you write is wrong:

http://www.ilgazeboaudiofilo.com/t11864-erogazione-little-dot-mk-vi


----------



## john57

Quote: 





[overdrive] said:


> Hello,
> What you write is wrong:
> 
> http://www.ilgazeboaudiofilo.com/t11864-erogazione-little-dot-mk-vi


 
  I was quoting was rated power which I already know is not RMS. Second the Little Dot VI+ is both a OTL *and* OCL design. Far different from the DarkVoice design


----------



## Carlitos

0.85w at 300ohms   =(


----------



## DefQon

The VI+ is not designed for high Z headphones. That's why David made the LD MK VIII SE with a similar design topology and same form factor design but designed to drive high Z headphones i.e. Sennheiser HD580/600/650/800 etc and the 600ohm Beyers. The VI+ is good for power hungry headphones akin K1k and orthos.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





carlitos said:


> 0.85w at 300ohms   =(


 
  [size=11pt]Without knowing what voltage level is being used at the inputs we cannot be sure if David is using a 1v reference or the max level before clipping. On The Little Dot web site it still does not give details on how he did the measurements. You will have a bit more voltage swing at the front balanced outs as compared to using the single ended  1/4 output on the back. I have headphones that can be single ended or in balanced by switching out the headphone cable. The balanced mode is stronger. In have not measured mine since it works and I am not trying a find a problem in the haystack. I do know that my Little Dot VI+ likes voltage at the inputs and performs better with DAC's that are using balanced pro level output at +4dBu instead of -10dBu or roughly 3.4 v peak to peak instead of .9v peak to peak for consumer audio level. Without knowing for sure how the measurements are done especially for the inputs cannot really be sure how accurate the manufacture specs are. Bottom line I enjoy mine. [/size]


----------



## alota

Quote: 





defqon said:


> The VI+ is not designed for high Z headphones. That's why David made the LD MK VIII SE with a similar design topology and same form factor design but designed to drive high Z headphones i.e. Sennheiser HD580/600/650/800 etc and the 600ohm Beyers. The VI+ is good for power hungry headphones akin K1k and orthos.


 
  i used mine from grado to senn hd-650 and hd-800


----------



## Contrails

What about K702 65th anniversaries which have an impedance of *impedance*62 ohms and max. input power 200 mW.  Would these headphones be safe with this amp?


----------



## [OverDrive]

contrails said:


> What about K702 65th anniversaries which have an impedance of *impedance*62 ohms and max. input power 200 mW.  Would these headphones be safe with this amp?



 
This Headphones amplifier don't have a problems with the K701/702 etc..
This amp drive low and high impedance without problems ... excluding the HE6.
 
P.s: sorry for my english


----------



## DefQon

[overdrive] said:


>


 
 The amp can drive the HE-6 no problems.


----------



## Contrails

> This Headphones amplifier don't have a problems with the K701/702 etc..
> This amp drive low and high impedance without problems ... excluding the HE6.
> 
> P.s: sorry for my english


 
  
 And how's the snergy with the HD800? It is a good amp for the hd800, along the same league as a wa2?
  
 Your english is good, no need to apologise.


----------



## DefQon

contrails said:


> And how's the snergy with the HD800? It is a good amp for the hd800, along the same league as a wa2?
> 
> Your english is good, no need to apologise.


 
 Better than WA2.


----------



## alota

contrails said:


> And how's the snergy with the HD800? It is a good amp for the hd800, along the same league as a wa2?
> 
> Your english is good, no need to apologise.


 
 i liked this amplifier with the hd-800, especially with jazz


----------



## Contrails

> i liked this amplifier with the hd-800, especially with jazz


 
  
 Does it still offer the pinpoint 3d imaging with the HD800 and also make them sound more smoother/warmer?


----------



## zenpunk

defqon said:


> The amp can drive the HE-6 no problems.


 
 Totally agree. It is the best amp I heard so far with the HE-6, and  I tried quite a few, including vintage receiver, T-amp,  EF-6 and Shiit Mjonir.


----------



## DefQon

contrails said:


> Does it still offer the pinpoint 3d imaging with the HD800 and also make them sound more smoother/warmer?


 
 Depends on the tubes you roll.


----------



## Contrails

Which tubes you recommend?


----------



## khaine1711

Anyone have internal picture of the current production MkVI+? (the one with 1/4 TRS moved to the front)
  
 I know Little Dot moved the single-ended headphone out to the front, just not sure if there's any changes to the internal.


----------



## john57

khaine1711 said:


> Anyone have internal picture of the current production MkVI+? (the one with 1/4 TRS moved to the front)
> 
> I know Little Dot moved the single-ended headphone out to the front, just not sure if there's any changes to the internal.


 
 Like this?

 Looks more like a modified model since the screw holding the balanced headphone output are silver not black. Have not seem any like this on Ebay.
 Looks like they jumpered into the balanced output lines for the 1/4 headphone jack so the internal picture should look mostly the same.


----------



## khaine1711

john57 said:


> Like this?
> 
> Looks more like a modified model since the screw holding the balanced headphone output are silver not black. Have not seem any like this on Ebay.
> Looks like they jumpered into the balanced output lines for the 1/4 headphone jack so the internal picture should look mostly the same.


 
 Yea they move the 1/4" jack to the front. It's official, all ebay resellers' pictures weren't updated. I was only aware of it when I saw few pictures of new owners showing off his MkVI+
  
 Just wondering if there's any internal component changes.


----------



## john57

Good question, the area that could change the SQ the most would be the driver tubes coupling caps.


----------



## khaine1711

So far I haven't seen any stock photo of the internal of the new mkVI+
  
 I recall seeing a really souped up mkVI+, with V-cap OIMP coupling caps and changing most of the Wima caps into Ero.
  
 Edit: found the souped up mk6+ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
  
 I know I've seen a MkVIIIse using Wima caps, and another using Ero caps - not sure if the MKVI+ has any changes.


----------



## alota

contrails said:


> Does it still offer the pinpoint 3d imaging with the HD800 and also make them sound more smoother/warmer?


 
 well if my memory is good, the soundstage was fantastic.
 about the sound, this depends on the tubes that uses


----------



## seaice

> "Does it still offer the pinpoint 3d imaging with the HD800 and also make them sound more smoother/warmer?"
> 
> Originally Posted by *alota* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> well if my memory is good, the soundstage was fantastic.
> about the sound, this depends on the tubes that uses


 
 I fully agree with that! Plus it is a question of synergy of the whole setup. I love the sound of my Audio-GD REF7 > LD MKVIIIse. Neutral, but musical and enjoyable, not clinical.


----------



## elwappo99

john57 said:


> Like this?
> 
> Looks more like a modified model since the screw holding the balanced headphone output are silver not black. Have not seem any like this on Ebay.
> Looks like they jumpered into the balanced output lines for the 1/4 headphone jack so the internal picture should look mostly the same.


 
  
 Huh! Wonder if any of the ground loop issues were solved with the 1/4" TRS in front. On my unit, it was basically unusable as a result of the humming. 
  
  
  


zenpunk said:


> defqon said:
> 
> 
> > The amp can drive the HE-6 no problems.
> ...




  
 Although I thought the MKVI+ did well with the HE-6,  I still think it didn't have quite enough voltage swing. I did think it did better than the Mjolnir however. 
  
 I kind of miss this little unit. Great headphone amplifier.


----------



## john57

The Mjolnir is rated at 5W RMS into 50 ohms. So you saying that the Little Dot holds up well


----------



## khaine1711

elwappo99 said:


> Huh! Wonder if any of the ground loop issues were solved with the 1/4" TRS in front. On my unit, it was basically unusable as a result of the humming.
> 
> Although I thought the MKVI+ did well with the HE-6,  I still think it didn't have quite enough voltage swing. I did think it did better than the Mjolnir however.
> 
> I kind of miss this little unit. Great headphone amplifier.


 
 You wrote in the He-500 thread that the Emotiva A100 outperform the MKVI+ in driving the He-6 - kinda scares me since I found the Emotiva quite mediocre.


----------



## zenpunk

The Mjolnir had slightly better bass extension but was borderline peakier in the treble while  the LD is quite a bit more realistic and open sounding. (that was with 5998 tubes). I haven't found an amp that bested the LD for my taste. People after a lusher and warmer sound might prefer a vintage amplifier.


----------



## baronbeehive

I don't think anyone has had the mkvi+ factory upgrade, with the caps and wiring, available with new purchase only. I haven't heard anyone mention SQ and would be interested to know how SQ is affected. I would have thought that silver wiring would make an even more neutral sounding and not as enjoyable as a tube amp? Since my speaker set up uses the mkvi+ as a preamp and modifies SQ in a strikingly realistic way over the system minus the mkvi pre I can't see much point in any mods for me personally.  The fact that the mkvi does this is surprising given it is a humble headphone amp yet improves detail and sound over a proper speaker amp, (nuForce icon-2), which admittedly doesn't extract all the detail that, say a Temple Audio Bantam Gold does, however I find it much more musical, but it wouldn't be the same system without the mkvi pre in the setup.


----------



## khaine1711

baronbeehive said:


> I don't think anyone has had the mkvi+ factory upgrade, with the caps and wiring, available with new purchase only. I haven't heard anyone mention SQ and would be interested to know how SQ is affected. I would have thought that silver wiring would make an even more neutral sounding and not as enjoyable as a tube amp? Since my speaker set up uses the mkvi+ as a preamp and modifies SQ in a strikingly realistic way over the system minus the mkvi pre I can't see much point in any mods for me personally.  The fact that the mkvi does this is surprising given it is a humble headphone amp yet improves detail and sound over a proper speaker amp, (nuForce icon-2), which admittedly doesn't extract all the detail that, say a Trends Audio Bantam Gold does, however I find it much more musical, but it wouldn't be the same system without the mkvi pre in the setup.


 
  
 I'm a cable sceptic - but by that logic what effect would gold wiring have? Do silver solder sounds more natural than lead solder then? What about PCB trace =p. Not taking shots at anybody but wiring difference (if any) would probably be minimal.
  
 On the other hands, coupling caps are quite a big deal though. I've swapped out caps in several tube amps and the differences are much more than any tube rolling. You could try swapping cap yourself and see if you like it. The ones Little Dot uses are Mundorf silver/gold/oil.


----------



## baronbeehive

I agree to some extent about cables although I have definately heard differences, even in USB cables which is controversial. One reason I don't go with silver is that I like smooth round tones and assuming silver gives a more attacking sound that would negate the tube sound for me. Changing caps however would be interesting to try, others have said that it makes a noticeable difference, any suggestions about the caps to go for?


----------



## khaine1711

baronbeehive said:


> I agree to some extent about cables although I have definately heard differences, even in USB cables which is controversial. One reason I don't go with silver is that I like smooth round tones and assuming silver gives a more attacking sound that would negate the tube sound for me. Changing caps however would be interesting to try, others have said that it makes a noticeable difference, any suggestions about the caps to go for?


 
 Depends on what sound you're looking for.
  
 The caps that Little Dot offers for upgrades are Mundorf silver/gold/oil. You could also go with any caps of the same value really - Jensen/Mundorf Silver Oil/V-cap ...etc. My personal fav caps are the Jensen in paper can, or Mundorf.
  
 Aside from the Mundorf, you'll need to leave the bottom of the little dot open if you wants to fit some big caps since Jensen and V-cap (CuTF/TFTF) are quite "fat".


----------



## errivera

I wish there were some official response at to how the LD mkVI+ has or hasn't changed. I am interested in trying out this amp but have put it off due to the rear-facing 1/4" headphone jack. I use a wide variety of headphones and the way my equipment is mounted, it would be a chore to reach behind the amp to plug/unplug headphones so often.
  
 The LD website appears to be very, very, very slow in updating information and photos of the equipment. Does anyone have actual photos of their recently acquired LD mkVI+ that can settle whether the inputs/outputs have been repositioned on the amp?


----------



## khaine1711

errivera said:


> I wish there were some official response at to how the LD mkVI+ has or hasn't changed. I am interested in trying out this amp but have put it off due to the rear-facing 1/4" headphone jack. I use a wide variety of headphones and the way my equipment is mounted, it would be a chore to reach behind the amp to plug/unplug headphones so often.
> 
> The LD website appears to be very, very, very slow in updating information and photos of the equipment. Does anyone have actual photos of their recently acquired LD mkVI+ that can settle whether the inputs/outputs have been repositioned on the amp?


 
  
 All new order of the MK6+ starting from 2 last months (I think) have the front 1/4" jack. This one is from August:
  

  
  
 David hasn't updated the English website of LD for ages. The Mk9 has come out for a month now; the info and the preorder was only posted on the Chinese forum


----------



## steppenout

errivera said:


> I wish there were some official response at to how the LD mkVI+ has or hasn't changed. I am interested in trying out this amp but have put it off due to the rear-facing 1/4" headphone jack. I use a wide variety of headphones and the way my equipment is mounted, it would be a chore to reach behind the amp to plug/unplug headphones so often.
> 
> The LD website appears to be very, very, very slow in updating information and photos of the equipment. Does anyone have actual photos of their recently acquired LD mkVI+ that can settle whether the inputs/outputs have been repositioned on the amp?


 
  
 Have you emailed David at Little Dot? He's usually very helpful.
little.tube@gmail.com


----------



## errivera

I have emailed him a couple of times but responses usually take about a week. I know he's busy so I find it easier and faster to get information from you guys, here.
  
 Thanks for the info regarding the mkVI+.
  
 Any ideas or comments about the mkIX, other than it's SE?


----------



## john57

errivera said:


> I wish there were some official response at to how the LD mkVI+ has or hasn't changed. I am interested in trying out this amp but have put it off due to the rear-facing 1/4" headphone jack. I use a wide variety of headphones and the way my equipment is mounted, it would be a chore to reach behind the amp to plug/unplug headphones so often.
> 
> The LD website appears to be very, very, very slow in updating information and photos of the equipment. Does anyone have actual photos of their recently acquired LD mkVI+ that can settle whether the inputs/outputs have been repositioned on the amp?


 
 In my case I just add a very short headphone extension cable to the rear 1/4 jack semi-permanent and just use the cable when ever I need to use the 1/4 jack. It is a moot point now.


----------



## khaine1711

errivera said:


> I have emailed him a couple of times but responses usually take about a week. I know he's busy so I find it easier and faster to get information from you guys, here.
> 
> Thanks for the info regarding the mkVI+.
> 
> *Any ideas or comments about the mkIX, other than it's SE?*


 
  
 It's the single ended version of the MK6. Not worth the price IMO, only 200 extra and you can get the MK6. After a few tube rollings and you'll begin to wonder what would balance sound like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Not many impression on it, the few expressions on China forum were mostly with low impedance dynamic (Rs1i, D7k ..etc)


----------



## baronbeehive

errivera said:


> I have emailed him a couple of times but responses usually take about a week. I know he's busy so I find it easier and faster to get information from you guys, here.


 
 I'm surprised you  say that, he usually responds within minutes, day, evening, weekends appears all the same to him and that's one of the reasons I went for my LD. However he can get customer fatigue if you bombard him with too many questions at once.


----------



## hojomojo96

Does anyone know how the LD MK IV SE compares to the Musical Paradise MP-301?


----------



## DefQon

hojomojo96 said:


> Does anyone know how the LD MK IV SE compares to the Musical Paradise MP-301?


 
  
 Wrong thread. There is a thread dedicated for MK IV owners. Unless you mean VII SE, assuming you've made a typo?


----------



## Contrails

So, with the New VI+, have the fan noise, grounding and transformer issues been sorted?


----------



## DefQon

contrails said:


> So, with the New VI+, have the fan noise, grounding and transformer issues been sorted?




Yes. But I'd personally replace the fans to something better that will maintain the cooling of the amp without fan bearing failure and excessive noise. My VI+ fan broke down a good months worth of use into it. Swapped for a Noctua and it was good.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks for your reply DefQon,
  
 How easy is the fan swap? And could you please tell me which size fan to use?


----------



## DefQon

contrails said:


> Thanks for your reply DefQon,
> 
> How easy is the fan swap? And could you please tell me which size fan to use?


 
  
 120mm. Very easy to swap. Not sure what fan's the new one's use though.


----------



## Contrails

Awesome, thanks mate.  
  
 And what would you recommend for the driver tubes? 6sn7 or 6sl7.  The 6sn7 seem to be a bit expensive.


----------



## khaine1711

contrails said:


> Awesome, thanks mate.
> 
> And what would you recommend for the driver tubes? 6sn7 or 6sl7.  The 6sn7 seem to be a bit expensive.


 
  
 You can get cheap 6sl7/6sn7 in the form of 6c8g, 6f8g or 7n7, 7F7 - will need adapter though.


----------



## Contrails

> You can get cheap 6sl7/6sn7 in the form of 6c8g, 6f8g or 7n7, 7F7 - will need adapter though.


 
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## DefQon

khaine1711 said:


> You can get cheap 6sl7/6sn7 in the form of 6c8g, 6f8g or 7n7, 7F7 - will need adapter though.


 
  
 +1.
  
 6SN7 are dirty cheap but a balanced pair or quad can cost quite a bit, nothing expensive compared to say a single GEC 6AS7G or so.
  
 I also greatly prefer the 6F8G's using an adaptor in place of a 6SN7, more body and layering to the music. Not much variants to choose from though compared to the vast amount of different 6SN7's out there.
  
 John did recommend 7N7's in his impressions but I haven't had luck grabbing a cheap set with adaptor to try out.


----------



## Contrails

Cheers for the replies guys.  I have one more query, I will be connecting this amp to the balanced outputs of a MDAC and using He500.  If I use XLR cables and connect the MDAC to the balanced outputs of the amp, do I still need a balanced cable for the He500 to get the balanced sound? or can I connect the headphones straight into the 1/4" jack and it's still balanced as the source is balanced?


----------



## alota

the problem with 6sn7 is the gain


----------



## DefQon

contrails said:


> Cheers for the replies guys.  I have one more query, I will be connecting this amp to the balanced outputs of a MDAC and using He500.  If I use XLR cables and connect the MDAC to the balanced outputs of the amp, do I still need a balanced cable for the He500 to get the balanced sound? or can I connect the headphones straight into the 1/4" jack and it's still balanced as the source is balanced?


 
  
 Source will be balanced but you need to run balanced out to utilize balanced powah.


----------



## 2K9R56S

Hello.  Long time lurker, first time customer here.  Last week I ordered the MK VI+ directly from LD, so I'm hoping it will be here by the end of the month.
  
 Anyway, I'm curious to know what everyone is using for a balanced source?
  
 I've narrowed it down to the Musical Fidelity M1DAC and the Teac UD-H01.  I've had the Teac DS-H01 for a long time and love the sound of it, so I figured the UD-H01 would be just as good if not better.  And it's exactly half the price of the M1.  But then I also find myself looking at the M1's website just about every day.  Thoughts?  Alternatives?
  
 One last question.  On the current MK VI+, are both the balanced and SE outputs live regardless of which input is being used?  Or is it balanced in / balanced out & SE in / SE out only?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## zenpunk

Both are active regardless of the inputs but it has to be used balanced from input to output or you are just wasting your time and money.


----------



## 2K9R56S

That's what I was hoping.  I wanted to make sure I could hear a balanced source through the SE output, because there will be times I'll have to use my closed pair of SE headphones.  Then when the rest of the family goes upstairs to bed I can break out the balanced open headphones.


----------



## Makiah S

OMG the price of this thing... it's perfect  
  
 SO I'm looking at grabbing one of these in the Sprig of Next Year, any one have any recommendation for a good set of tubes to roll into to this to make it more suitable for Low Gain Headphones [on the SE out put] and give it a very airy and detailed almost solid state like sound signiture? I ofc want those lovely tube mids... but I want all the detail of Solid State, including the nice sound stage and depth My budget for extra tubes will be at $166 with shipping 
  
 My source will b my Audio GD10ES2 [it has 2 3pin XLR out puts set to Fixed Line out] that is ofc dual outputs from the DAC


----------



## khaine1711

mshenay said:


> OMG the price of this thing... it's perfect
> 
> SO I'm looking at grabbing one of these in the Sprig of Next Year, any one have any recommendation for a good set of tubes to roll into to this to make it more suitable for Low Gain Headphones [on the SE out put] and give it a very airy and detailed almost solid state like sound signiture? I ofc want those lovely tube mids... but I want all the detail of Solid State, including the nice sound stage and depth My budget for extra tubes will be at $166 with shipping
> 
> My source will b my Audio GD10ES2 [it has 2 3pin XLR out puts set to Fixed Line out] that is ofc dual outputs from the DAC


 
  
 Tubes are very personal. Best of both world usually costs an arm an a leg 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'd suggest going through all the budget bargain on ebay first (those $10-20 bucks a pair) before dropping money into mega expensive stuff.
  
 About gain, your ES2 can be used as preamp. Use the balance output of the little dot - and lower the output of your ES2 in case you have no volume control.


----------



## Makiah S

khaine1711 said:


> Tubes are very personal. Best of both world usually costs an arm an a leg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It can be used as a PreAmp and a Fixed Line out, would I want to double amp it? Still I would assume the VIII SE has it's own Volume Control [I would set the gain to low on the ES2 before going Fixed into the VIII SE]
  
 and I want the MOST Solid State tubes I can get, any recommendations. As honestly... I don't like tubes that much I like solid state BUT a "solid state" sounding tube will still have more even harmonics than my Solid state EVER will so by default a cheap "solid state" like tube should do the trick
  
 In addition I'm thinking of using the VIII se to drive a balanced T90 or Dt 880 [both balanced] Not sure what other high end phones I might get, additionally would this have enough current to drive something like a Hifiman HE 4 or HE 6? I know it's got the volts but does it have le amps?


----------



## khaine1711

mshenay said:


> It can be used as a PreAmp and a Fixed Line out, would I want to double amp it? Still I would assume the VIII SE has it's own Volume Control [I would set the gain to low on the ES2 before going Fixed into the VIII SE]
> 
> and I want the MOST Solid State tubes I can get, any recommendations. As honestly... I don't like tubes that much I like solid state BUT a "solid state" sounding tube will still have more even harmonics than my Solid state EVER will so by default a cheap "solid state" like tube should do the trick
> 
> In addition I'm thinking of using the VIII se to drive a balanced T90 or Dt 880 [both balanced] Not sure what other high end phones I might get, additionally would this have enough current to drive something like a Hifiman HE 4 or HE 6? I know it's got the volts but does it have le amps?


 
  
 Depending on the implementation of the preamp, Kingwa's in particular is pretty darn transparent I must say. Also I thought you're getting the mk6; if you get the mk8se there'll be no problem since its power output is much less than its mk6 siblings. Always use the balance out though, the SE output is likely only getting signal from half the amp.
  
 "Solid state" like tube isn't cheap though. My Telefunken and Amperex are among the most expensive in my collections. But if you want the clarity for dirt cheap, you can try some Genalex re-issue 12AT7
  
 If you're getting a mk8se, why not get a Hd800 though (instead of the hifiman orthos)...


----------



## DefQon

The Mullard CV4024 are amongst the best of the 12AT7 range without spending too much.


----------



## Contrails

Wow, a few from Melbourne that own a MK6! I don't live in Melbourne anymore (an absolute shame).  
  
 Anyway, been doing some shopping and so far I manage to convince myself to pick up a set of quad 7236s, xlr interconnects, some aftermarket cooling fans and hopefully some Ken Rad Vt-231s when they become available at a good price.  I will be ordering the amp in start of dec as I will be going overseas till then.


----------



## Makiah S

khaine1711 said:


> Depending on the implementation of the preamp, Kingwa's in particular is pretty darn transparent I must say. Also I thought you're getting the mk6; if you get the mk8se there'll be no problem since its power output is much less than its mk6 siblings. Always use the balance out though, the SE output is likely only getting signal from half the amp.
> 
> "Solid state" like tube isn't cheap though. My Telefunken and Amperex are among the most expensive in my collections. But if you want the clarity for dirt cheap, you can try some Genalex re-issue 12AT7
> 
> If you're getting a mk8se, why not get a Hd800 though (instead of the hifiman orthos)...


 
  
 Well I have about $166 to spend on tubes, so I would not mind some Telefunken or Tung Sol [I hear those are airy as well]
  
 and I do not WANT a HD 800... HELL NO, not right now. I don't want to get into HIFI cans until I get an amp to drive them [getting my solid state sometime this week, then my Tube the MKVIISE later] 
  
 And still I assume the Audio GDES2 with like 6w into 50ohms it should be able to drive most anything I throw at it, that said I want the Balanced tube for my Balanced Beyers or what ever else I might want to  have for a tube amp. And atm the moment the only headphones I MIGHT want a tube for are my Beyers, my dt 880 is already balanced, and the T90 I will balance when I go to buy it. [i have a 4pin XLR to 6.5mm adapter as well] and good point about using the Balanced out, although I'm wondering if I'll keep or sell my DT 990... I might sell it and get a Balanced 600 ohm actually,


----------



## khaine1711

mshenay said:


> Well I have about $166 to spend on tubes, so I would not mind some Telefunken or Tung Sol [I hear those are airy as well]
> 
> and I do not WANT a HD 800... HELL NO, not right now. I don't want to get into HIFI cans until I get an amp to drive them [getting my solid state sometime this week, then my Tube the MKVIISE later]


 
 TFK has great clarity - might be even a touch too bright for many people. Tung-sol has great drive and impact - more fun sounding than TFK. Those are my impression with several tube pre-amps - and might not necessarily translate to the MkVIIIse; though in my experience, those 12xx7 tubes don't change characteristic much with different circuit. 
  
 I do think Telefunkens (and Amperex Bulge Boys) are way too overpriced these days. I love those tubes for their ... historic (bragging) values and collection purpose, but to be honest you'll be happier with several pair of other tubes rather than a nib pair of TFK. You should check with David if the mk8se can safely use 5751 - if the answer is yes then get a few pairs of good 5751 (they're darned cheap) and be happy for a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 To be honest if you're getting the mkVIIIse, just get a hd800 (and sell a few Beyers). As much of a Beyer fan I am, I do not feel anything that Beyer currently (and in the past) produces can even touch the Hd800. And it's not like the mk8se isn't "proper" for the Hd800. It's not the best for sure, but aint crap either.


----------



## Makiah S

khaine1711 said:


> TFK has great clarity - might be even a touch too bright for many people. Tung-sol has great drive and impact - more fun sounding than TFK. Those are my impression with several tube pre-amps - and might not necessarily translate to the MkVIIIse; though in my experience, those 12xx7 tubes don't change characteristic much with different circuit.
> 
> I do think Telefunkens (and Amperex Bulge Boys) are way too overpriced these days. I love those tubes for their ... historic (bragging) values and collection purpose, but to be honest you'll be happier with several pair of other tubes rather than a nib pair of TFK. You should check with David if the mk8se can safely use 5751 - if the answer is yes then get a few pairs of good 5751 (they're darned cheap) and be happy for a while
> 
> ...


 
  
 But I don't want an HD 800... not yet -.- I'll grab an HE 6 before I touch a sennhesier


----------



## khaine1711

mshenay said:


> But I don't want an HD 800... not yet -.- I'll grab an HE 6 before I touch a sennhesier


 
  
 Well, the Mk8se probably won't play nice with the He-6. But then you can just grab a vintage receiver to power it. Probably cheaper than say rolling 4 supertubes in the Mk8se =p
  
 Usually I advise people to get headphones first, then suitable amp later on. But in your case, since you're getting an amp first - why not get headphones that play to its strength (first)?
  
 My train of thoughts is like what would people do with 3 high impedance - bright cans (dt880, dt990, t90) - why not just get a best bright can that is also high impedance (hd800) which also plays nice with the (planned) amp


----------



## Makiah S

khaine1711 said:


> Well, the Mk8se probably won't play nice with the He-6. But then you can just grab a vintage receiver to power it. Probably cheaper than say rolling 4 supertubes in the Mk8se =p
> 
> Usually I advise people to get headphones first, then suitable amp later on. But in your case, since you're getting an amp first - why not get headphones that play to its strength (first)?
> 
> My train of thoughts is like what would people do with 3 high impedance - bright cans (dt880, dt990, t90) - why not just get a best bright can that is also high impedance (hd800) which also plays nice with the (planned) amp


 
  
 I just happen to hate Senn Hesier and thier ugly Headphones :3 T1 and T90 for EVER 
  
 but I have teh can, my Dt 880 and maybe my 990 needs a tube, I don't want to just "GET" the HD 800... I would rather get something that's just as good, even if it means a LOT of waiting and trying and buying and re buying... I don't want to just GIVE up and get the HD 800... that's too easy. I'd rather fight an moan to find something better than the T1 when I Do get it. 
  
 Also Holy Beyers!  My Dt 880s sound so NICE with the my Pb1 and EDM. did a slight Sub Bass Boost and DAMN THAT BASS 
  
 Looking forward to running beyers for EVER thank you :3 I'll get the T1 at some point and then mod it to be as epic as the HD 800 ^^ anything to never own a sennhesier! 
  
 Also I would sell off my Dt 880 and DT 990 assuming the T90 does better than both, and it should. Although I'd have to keep the T90 for it's low impedance, as the Hm 801 should drive it like magic


----------



## baronbeehive

mshenay said:


> I just happen to hate Senn Hesier and thier ugly Headphones :3 T1 and T90 for EVER


 
 I'm with you there! You could do a lot worse than finish off with the T1. Regarding the Sennys vv the HE-6's the argument really is between soundstage vv immediacy, personally I love the latter that's why I've got the HE-500's and am really happy about that, for the emotional involvement in the music. You still get a good sense of where the instruments are coming from. And Tungsols, also my fav tube, are airy but that's not how I would describe their main characteristic which is a silky smoothness that is great for long headphone sessions but possibly lacks the impact of the live performance, but I still love their magical quality. Another tube which springs to mind with solid state qualities is the Sylvania which you might also consider.
  
 Good to hear of your forays into tube amps, it brings back the excitement we all had when we got our first LD too!


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> I'm with you there! You could do a lot worse than finish off with the T1. Regarding the Sennys vv the HE-6's the argument really is between soundstage vv immediacy, personally I love the latter that's why I've got the HE-500's and am really happy about that, for the emotional involvement in the music. You still get a good sense of where the instruments are coming from. And Tungsols, also my fav tube, are airy but that's not how I would describe their main characteristic which is a silky smoothness that is great for long headphone sessions but possibly lacks the impact of the live performance, but I still love their magical quality. Another tube which springs to mind with solid state qualities is the Sylvania which you might also consider.
> 
> Good to hear of your forays into tube amps, it brings back the excitement we all had when we got our first LD too!


 
  
 xD thanks, and if you can belive it I hear the HE 6 have SUPER upgraded sound to my W1000x [which is modded] and i love how intimate the sound of the W1000x but it ofc has it's limits.
  
 Still the T1 is't bad and we should see some new Flag Ships showing up soon,


----------



## DefQon

The T1 has more design flaws than it's good points so I don't think it will improve much even with modding if you want to retain the original sound signature. I'am one of the rare few that actually think the T1 sounds ok. But it is far from being in the same league as the HD800 which is the best dynamic headphone ever made, if you exclude the R10 and Qualia which have issues of it's own as well.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> The T1 has more design flaws than it's good points so I don't think it will improve much even with modding if you want to retain the original sound signature. I'am one of the rare few that actually think the T1 sounds ok. But it is far from being in the same league as the HD800 which is the best dynamic headphone ever made, if you exclude the R10 and Qualia which have issues of it's own as well.




damn... its soo ugly though the HD 800 , some one need to make a competitor already q.q


----------



## DefQon

mshenay said:


> damn... its soo ugly though the HD 800 , some one need to make a competitor already q.q


 
  
 I think the HD800 looks fine it won't win a Grammy Award in looks but it has a sense of modernized futurism to it. 
  
 Personally I like wooden headphones or piano black finished touch headphones. Silver and grey is just too overdone nowadays.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> I think the HD800 looks fine it won't win a Grammy Award in looks but it has a sense of modernized futurism to it.
> 
> Personally I like wooden headphones or piano black finished touch headphones. Silver and grey is just too overdone nowadays.




There is a thought... a wooden open back with Hd8 detail oh wait thats the he 6 sound :3

Still the Auido Gd 10es2 should drive he 6

n I might own the hd 800... but it will b the only senn ill own... eva


----------



## baronbeehive

mshenay said:


> There is a thought... a wooden open back with Hd8 detail oh wait thats the he 6 sound :3
> 
> Still the Auido Gd 10es2 should drive he 6
> 
> n I might own the hd 800... but it will b the only senn ill own... eva


 
  
 Looks like there's only one solution - get both, if only  my wallet would let me!


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> Looks like there's only one solution - get both, if only  my wallet would let me!


 
  
 Well the 10ES2 is barely enough for the HE 6 so scratch that idea
  
 still wondering if I should go VI+ or VIII SE, if I want to use them with both 600 ohm and 32 ohm open airs... [thankfully ATH cans can take up to 2w of power b4 u break them, gawd forbid I even forget to turn dwn the volume and gain b4 swapping into one] 
  
 Actually... it seems the LDVI+ comes in silver :O making it sexier than the VIII SE, in addition the VI+ has a gain switch! [The VIII SE does not?] So I think I should just save some stinking money and get the VI+, and not be a moron and buy an amp way to powerful for low impedance cans


----------



## Loko-Pillo

Did anyone try any of those 2 amps with HD650?
  
 I read almost the whole thread now and there was sparring mention of the headphone, but no impressions at all.
  
 I'm really tempted to get one of them, (leaning toward the VI+, for some reason, though the VIII-SE is supposed to better with the Senns (am I even right?))
 but I'm worried because the 650 is my only headphone currently.
  
 It will stay so for a while too I believe, unless I experience something really impressive, I'm in love with it and totally satisfied (Headphone-wise).
 I've tried many headphones from the LCDs to the HE-6...they were all good, but not really worth more than the HD650. Actually I prefer the HD650, personally. So I sold all the others.
 Thought it might have been the amps and DACs I had affecting the other headphones, to be fair. They weren't "syncing" very well (future-me, now, realizes!)
  
 Anyway, to stop blabbering on...can anyone help me out with any impressions concerning how the HD650 sounds with either amp? or both of course!


----------



## DefQon

An alternate strong consideration would be the Bottlehead Crack. Be sure to check out the dedicated Crack thread. Superb diy amp especially for driving HD580/600/650's high z Senny cans.

Cheers


----------



## Loko-Pillo

defqon said:


> An alternate strong consideration would be the Bottlehead Crack. Be sure to check out the dedicated Crack thread. Superb diy amp especially for driving HD580/600/650's high z Senny cans.
> 
> Cheers


 
 Thanks for that!
  
 I'll check it out now...is it as good sounding, you think?
  
  
 And if anyone has experience with the HD650 on those as well, please share.


----------



## DefQon

That's a hard one although I do own both the MK6 and the Crack both are about on par driving my HD600's but the Crack has it's own special synergy and costs less. MK6 is a different beast when driving cans a bit more demanding where the Crack falls flat on its face.

Crack and HD650 is good but I prefer my 600's. Best I've heard the HD650 was off a $6k + SP SDS amp.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> That's a hard one although I do own both the MK6 and the Crack both are about on par driving my HD600's but the Crack has it's own special synergy and costs less. MK6 is a different beast when driving cans a bit more demanding where the Crack falls flat on its face.
> 
> Crack and HD650 is good but I prefer my 600's. Best I've heard the HD650 was off a $6k + SP SDS amp.


 
  
 I'm happy to hear a lot of good about the MK6+ espically with lower impedance cans! Which means for me budgeting in a MK6 means I get more cash for Tubes :3


----------



## cobrawang

Right,I've been thinking of getting the MKVIII SE.  Haven't pulled the trigger yet.thank you


----------



## Loko-Pillo

defqon said:


> That's a hard one although I do own both the MK6 and the Crack both are about on par driving my HD600's but the Crack has it's own special synergy and costs less. MK6 is a different beast when driving cans a bit more demanding where the Crack falls flat on its face.
> 
> Crack and HD650 is good but I prefer my 600's. Best I've heard the HD650 was off a $6k + SP SDS amp.


 
 Oh dear...$6k...Well, at least, we can rule out me getting the best of the HD650s then! lol
  
 But, yeah, I definitely noticed the HD650 scales up pretty well.
 IMO it's a world class HP. It's got all the details and nuances in the others, just not showing it off, and as in your face about it. But it is definitely also a bit colored and seductive, similar to the LCDs in that respect.
 Though I haven't got enough experience to judge, really.
  
 I never heard the HD600, it does seem like a very good HP. More honest and less fickle, probably.
 I can understand that the HD650 to some people would sound too seductive and wanting to please to its own detriment.
 HD600 seems to also have a very loyal and passionate following, like the 650.
  
 So at least your HD600s weren't awful with the MK6...that COULD be a good sign I suppose. lol
 Also, after some digging, I found a few Head-Fiers in older threads loving the 650 with the MK6.
  
 The Bottle and the MK6 both look pretty cool. I am still leaning towards the MK6...
 who knows, maybe it will encourage me to give other phones a try as well.
  
 I just hope it lasts, I want to get a good-sounding amp that could stay with me for a while, even if I get others.
  
 Oh, and I've got a Benchmark DAC2 as well, if that matters at all.
 It sounded, to me, like it could go pretty well with a good quality tube amp.
  
  
 Appreciate your help, thanks!


----------



## DefQon

loko-pillo said:


> Oh dear...$6k...Well, at least, we can rule out me getting the best of the HD650s then! lol
> 
> But, yeah, I definitely noticed the HD650 scales up pretty well.
> IMO it's a world class HP. It's got all the details and nuances in the others, just not showing it off, and as in your face about it. But it is definitely also a bit colored and seductive, similar to the LCDs in that respect.
> ...


 
  
 No far from awful even though the MK6 is not designed with the goal in mind to drive high Z headphones (MK VIII SE does this) it drove my HD800's and 600's wonderfully. Since I've sold those off except the 600 and my LCD2's are in literally pieces for modding my MK6 doesn't get used at all so therefore it has been packed and stored away.


----------



## 2K9R56S

I've had my MKVI+ for three days now, and it f-ing rocks.  Even with the stock tubes it's better than my former WA6 with Sophia Princess and EH 6SN7 tubes.  It's powerful and it sounds amazing.  Hearing balanced audio too for the first time was incredible.  I finally was able to hear what everyone was raving about.
  
 A couple of things to note:
  
 1)  The fans are a little loud.  It doesn't bother me, but I can see how it would others.  Replacing them with a pair of silent 80MM would be easy.  Maybe some isolation cones too while the bottom cover is off.  
  
 2)  I'm using them with HD650's, and currently have the gain on high.  This maxes out the tolerable volume at about 70.  However, there's also a very, very faint buzz on the right channel that wasn't there when the gain was on low.  I'll probably set it back to low anyway.  I have some ATH-W1000X's that are out getting recabled with a balanced plug.  I don't think high gain with those would be good anyway.
  
 3)  With a balanced source playing, the balanced headphone output is louder than the SE headphone output.  I guess this is normal?
  
 4)  With both a balanced and SE source connected, the SE source can't be heard unless the XLR cables are unplugged.  Even with the balanced source turned off or with its power cord unplugged.  I'm not sure if this is the amp's design, or has something to do with my balanced DAC.
  
 Anyway, long story short, it's worth every penny.  I ordered It directly from David who was very helpful and friendly.  Shipping was very fast too.  It left HK on Sunday 22nd and arrived here on Tuesday 24th.  I ordered it on the 11th, expecting the 3-4 week turnaround, but got it in under 2 weeks.
  
 Very anxious to hear what different tubes will sound like.  Just still amazed by the stock tubes.  My only comparison though were the stock tubes that came with my WA6.  Those were bad.  For a couple of days after getting it I was contemplating returning the amp and going back to solid state.  They got a little better as time went on before the big jump to the Sophia.  I was sort of expecting the same thing with the MKVI+.  Nope.  Tranquility right out of the box.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> I've had my MKVI+ for three days now, and it f-ing rocks.  Even with the stock tubes it's better than my former WA6 with Sophia Princess and EH 6SN7 tubes.  It's powerful and it sounds amazing.  Hearing balanced audio too for the first time was incredible.  I finally was able to hear what everyone was raving about.
> 
> A couple of things to note:
> 
> ...




 u must tell us how the balanced w1000x sounds. Im worried the extra sound stage woukd kill the intmacy. Still im getting one of these for my w1000x as well


----------



## john57

3) Yes it is normal for the balanced outs to be louder because you will have more voltage swing available to the headphones because you are using both + and - legs to the headphones instead of just one leg using single ended outputs.
 4) The amp was not designed to using both single ended and balanced inputs at the same time since there is not switching of the inputs feature available on the amp. The single ended input is preventing either  the +  or  the - leg from being used. Either unplug or use a switch box for the inputs. You can leave the balanced outs on the back connected to a device like monitors at the same time as using the balanced front jack for the headphones.


----------



## DefQon

Change for 120mm. I had Noctua 12cm ones in mine.


----------



## baronbeehive

2k9r56s said:


> .....
> 
> 2)  I'm using them with HD650's, and currently have the gain on high.  This maxes out the tolerable volume at about 70.  However, there's also a very, very faint buzz on the right channel that wasn't there when the gain was on low.  I'll probably set it back to low anyway.  I have some ATH-W1000X's that are out getting recabled with a balanced plug.  I don't think high gain with those would be good anyway.
> 
> ...


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> u must tell us how the balanced w1000x sounds. Im worried the extra sound stage woukd kill the intmacy. Still im getting one of these for my w1000x as well


 
  
 Absolutely.  It will be a while though.  They arrived at Lawton Audio today, and he said there's about a 4 week turnaround.


----------



## 2K9R56S

john57 said:


> 3) Yes it is normal for the balanced outs to be louder because you will have more voltage swing available to the headphones because you are using both + and - legs to the headphones instead of just one leg using single ended outputs.
> 4) The amp was not designed to using both single ended and balanced inputs at the same time since there is not switching of the inputs feature available on the amp. The single ended input is preventing either  the +  or  the - leg from being used. Either unplug or use a switch box for the inputs. You can leave the balanced outs on the back connected to a device like monitors at the same time as using the balanced front jack for the headphones.


 
  
 3.  Roger that.
 4.  And that.


----------



## 2K9R56S

baronbeehive said:


> Interesting what you  say about the WA6. The HD650's on high gain at 70, I don't think I got anywhere near that when I had my HD600's on low gain! The beauty of a quality piece of kit like the mkvi though is that I can play at reasonable volume levels and still hear everything which is a definate plus. I find more and more I'm using moderate volume levels these days, hmm!


 
  
  
 I changed the gain back to low.  Now the maximum is between 80 and 90.  And the buzz is completely gone.  Even at 80 they're still louder than what the WA6 could do with them.
  
 Are you using the stock tubes?


----------



## 2K9R56S

AND...  Why the hell didn't I go balanced sooner?


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Absolutely.  It will be a while though.  They arrived at Lawton Audio today, and he said there's about a 4 week turnaround.




whats he charging


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> AND...  Why the hell didn't I go balanced sooner?




its expensive xD


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> whats he charging


 
  
  
 It was $317 total.  10ft of their Copper One cable and a 4-pin XLR was $298, and return shipping was $19.


----------



## DefQon

That's very expensive.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> It was $317 total.  10ft of their Copper One cable and a 4-pin XLR was $298, and return shipping was $19.


 
  
 yeap. I think I'll stick with Zombie_X


----------



## baronbeehive

2k9r56s said:


> I changed the gain back to low.  Now the maximum is between 80 and 90.  And the buzz is completely gone.  Even at 80 they're still louder than what the WA6 could do with them.
> 
> Are you using the stock tubes?


 
  
 Yes the buzz went when I switched from my Audio Technica ATH AD2000's to the HD600's on low gain. However listening on balanced outputs now, instead of single ended, the buzz has completely gone, so I think it was associated with the single ended wiring. I've settled on my long term tube set which are Bendix/Tungsol 6080WB's and Tungsol 6SL7GT round plate tubes. I see little need to try anything else for the type of sound I want, ie warm, smooth, balanced, detailed bass, silky treble and good soudstage.


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> Yes the buzz went when I switched from my Audio Technica ATH AD2000's to the HD600's on low gain. However listening on balanced outputs now, instead of single ended, the buzz has completely gone, so I think it was associated with the single ended wiring. I've settled on my long term tube set which are Bendix/Tungsol 6080WB's and Tungsol 6SL7GT round plate tubes. I see little need to try anything else for the type of sound I want, ie warm, smooth, balanced, detailed bass, silky treble and good soudstage.


 
  
 Tung Sols are notorious for Balanced, Sound Stage and Silky Airy Highs! I definatly want to drop some TS into my MKVI+ when I do get it


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> yeap. I think I'll stick with Zombie_X


 
  
  
 Considering the length and the labor involved their price wasn't bad compared to the other places I looked.


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> Tung Sols are notorious for Balanced, Sound Stage and Silky Airy Highs! I definatly want to drop some TS into my MKVI+ when I do get it


 
  
 I ordered a pair of these today:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SL7GT-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-Vacuum-Tubes-/380343675925?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item588e3fec15
  
 And these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-NOS-RCA-JAN-CRC-6AS7G-4-TUBES-Identical-date-codes-Matched-quad-Amplitrex-/321198695003?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac8ef225b&nma=true&si=ZKD%252B3got6Q31uAwXNmd4nf%252B69As%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 So we'll see how they perform.
  
 I'm a little skeptical on the 60 year old RCA's.


----------



## DefQon

The older the better but don't believe the ******** when sellers on fleabay say that an 40 - 50's RCA sound on par with some of the other top range tubes, RCA's are all the same (same with GE) until you get a coin base tall ladder 6SN7 which are probably the best RCA's you can get for the 6SN7 family.


----------



## elwappo99

defqon said:


> That's very expensive.


 
  
 Yea, that's shockingly expensive.
  
 If you really want to commit to balanced audio, you should really learn how to solder. Otherwise it's easy pickins for these cable guys.


----------



## baronbeehive

2k9r56s said:


> I ordered a pair of these today:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SL7GT-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-Vacuum-Tubes-/380343675925?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item588e3fec15
> 
> And these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-NOS-RCA-JAN-CRC-6AS7G-4-TUBES-Identical-date-codes-Matched-quad-Amplitrex-/321198695003?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac8ef225b&nma=true&si=ZKD%252B3got6Q31uAwXNmd4nf%252B69As%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> ...


 
 You should be fine with the RCA 6AS7G's, they're great, cheap tubes and only slightly inferior to the Bendix, for example. You would notice a difference on close listening but they're pretty  good. I would try to get some round plate black glass Tungsol 6SL7's as that construction gives the best SQ on a par with the 6SN7's, in fact I can't tell any difference. Re the RCA 6SN7's, they are great easy listening tubes with good warmth and definition, though not the best. They used to be my favourite all rounders. I would disagree with DefQon to some extent regarding the older the better. I think modern versions of some tubes can be better sound wise though not necessarily construction wise. I remember having some gray glass vt21's which people rave about and I didn't rate them at all. Since when I've heard there is much disagreement about this, and also much variablilty in these tubes, but I much preferred the cheap, modern GTB's.


----------



## john57

I agree with Baronbeehive, larger differences are with the driver tubes


----------



## alota

john57 said:


> I agree with Baronbeehive, larger differences are with the driver tubes


 
  
 +1. and sometime a matched quartet of power tubes is expensive


----------



## [OverDrive]

alota said:


> +1. and sometime a matched quartet of power tubes is expensive


 
  
 I will confirm when they get my bendix 6080WB ....


----------



## alota

[overdrive] said:


> I will confirm when they get my bendix 6080WB ....


 
  
 write your impressions about this tubes


----------



## [OverDrive]

alota said:


> write your impressions about this tubes


 
  
 I can't promise...


----------



## alota

[overdrive] said:


> I can't promise...


 
  
 te possino...


----------



## rosgr63

Aldo they are not bad, they'll definitely suit your tastes.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Aldo they are not bad, they'll definitely suit your tastes.


 
  
 i know. was a joke with overdrive


----------



## 2K9R56S

Has anyone tried these?
  
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/6sn7.htm


----------



## DefQon

Yes and not worth it. Get some Tung Sol or Sylvania 6SN7 bad boys. RCA coin base tall ladder 6SN7 are very nice too.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> Yes and not worth it. Get some Tung Sol or Sylvania 6SN7 bad boys. RCA coin base tall ladder 6SN7 are very nice too.


 
 THat's a shame to hear. I read a nice article about a fellow who tired Sophia Tubes against MANY NOS tubes, 
  
 Also good to see there are Tung Sol Clear tops out there


----------



## DefQon

The only Sophia Electric tubes I have and would recommend greatly is there KT88's and 12AX/U7 premium grade A tubes. The used 6SN7 I purchased off ebay from the original seller gave me the initial reaction of "Is that it?"


----------



## seaice

What about PSVANE tubes?
  
 I have tried many great 12AT7 NOS tubes in my MKVIIIse: Brimar 6060 yellow T, Tesla E83CC, Tesla ECC83, GE 12AT7 and cheap RCA 12AT7... And I really love the PSVANE 12AT7-T! They are great rivals to the best NOS 12AT7 tubes I own (Brimars, Teslas) and surpase them in several areas (especially in details). I also use PSVANE 6CA7-T / EL34 tubes in my speaker amp and these are the best EL-34 I have ever owned...
  
 However, I have never heard the PSVANE 6SN7s (because I do not own an amp for these) but would like to hear from someone who tried them.


----------



## zenpunk

I love  my Psvane 6SN7/CV181, very clean and detailed sound, and they look fantastic:


----------



## 2K9R56S

2k9r56s said:


> I ordered a pair of these today:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SL7GT-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-Vacuum-Tubes-/380343675925?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item588e3fec15
> 
> And these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-NOS-RCA-JAN-CRC-6AS7G-4-TUBES-Identical-date-codes-Matched-quad-Amplitrex-/321198695003?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac8ef225b&nma=true&si=ZKD%252B3got6Q31uAwXNmd4nf%252B69As%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


 
  
 Both sets arrived today.  They're a noticeable step up from the stock tubes.  Slightly more treble, definitely more bass and a little bit clearer sounding overall.


----------



## DefQon

seaice said:


> What about PSVANE tubes?
> 
> I have tried many great 12AT7 NOS tubes in my MKVIIIse: Brimar 6060 yellow T, Tesla E83CC, Tesla ECC83, GE 12AT7 and cheap RCA 12AT7... And I really love the PSVANE 12AT7-T! They are great rivals to the best NOS 12AT7 tubes I own (Brimars, Teslas) and surpase them in several areas (especially in details). I also use PSVANE 6CA7-T / EL34 tubes in my speaker amp and these are the best EL-34 I have ever owned...
> 
> However, I have never heard the PSVANE 6SN7s (because I do not own an amp for these) but would like to hear from someone who tried them.


 
  
 Haven't heard the Psvane 6SN7 but there 12A**7 dual triode tubes are amongst the best money can buy for a fraction of what NOS vintage tubes ask for.
  
 Since you have the MK VIIISE to try out 12AT7 tubes, buy a set of Mullard CV4024 and report back to me how they sound, I find them to provide a very very very nice low-end.


----------



## scottosan

defqon said:


> Haven't heard the Psvane 6SN7 but there 12A**7 dual triode tubes are amongst the best money can buy for a fraction of what NOS vintage tubes ask for.
> 
> Since you have the MK VIIISE to try out 12AT7 tubes, buy a set of Mullard CV4024 and report back to me how they sound, I find them to provide a very very very nice low-end.


 
  
 Keep in mind that these are basically hand selected Chinese tube packed and marketed for audiophiles.  The same tubes without the lipstick can be got from reputable tube dealers that can hand select low noise, low microphonics and balance tubes for a fraction of the cost.


----------



## seaice

defqon said:


> Haven't heard the Psvane 6SN7 but there 12A**7 dual triode tubes are amongst the best money can buy for a fraction of what NOS vintage tubes ask for.
> 
> Since you have the MK VIIISE to try out 12AT7 tubes, buy a set of Mullard CV4024 and report back to me how they sound, I find them to provide a very very very nice low-end.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip. My inventory of 12AT7 tubes is bigger than my needs and I believe that I have covered most areas of my setups. I will consider the Mullards in the next hunt for 12AT7 tubes. It is a pity that there is no rental library for tubes


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Both sets arrived today.  They're a noticeable step up from the stock tubes.  Slightly more treble, definitely more bass and a little bit clearer sounding overall.


 
  


> I ordered a pair of these today:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SL7GT-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-Vacuum-Tubes-/380343675925?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item588e3fec15
> 
> And these:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-NOS-RCA-JAN-CRC-6AS7G-4-TUBES-Identical-date-codes-Matched-quad-Amplitrex-/321198695003?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac8ef225b&nma=true&si=ZKD%252B3got6Q31uAwXNmd4nf%252B69As%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


 
  
  
 I think I might snatch a pair of those Tung Sols up when I get mine. I'm thinking of grabbing it in decemeber. I was going to get a new balanced amp but... pff I don't need one, the pb1 works fine for the Beyers and He's and the hm801 un amped it magical for my w1000x. Plus I'd rather wait till spring to get my w1000x re cabled q.q [as getting a new amp would mean I'd need to balanced my w1000x to use it on the go]
  
 So that said... I need time to prep the long wait for getting her balanced q.q


----------



## FieldPoint

Could someone, please, measure the cabinet of LD VI+ (width & depth)?
  
 Or, even better, distance between centers of front and rear feet?
  
 I wonder if it might fit my smallish Atacama rack...


----------



## Poladise

Says 350mm (length) by 290mm (width) by 140mm (height) on the site, not sure if that's including the stock tubes.
  
 Can I use a single ended source, but balanced headphone output on the VI+ ?


----------



## john57

fieldpoint said:


> Could someone, please, measure the cabinet of LD VI+ (width & depth)?
> 
> Or, even better, distance between centers of front and rear feet?
> 
> I wonder if it might fit my smallish Atacama rack...


 
  
  measured by the feet it is about 11 1/2 wide and 7 inch depth.


----------



## Makiah S

john57 said:


> feet it is about 11 1/4 wide and 7 inch depth


 
  
 ehm I think you mean inchs
  
 so it would be 11 1/4 wide 7inch length. I highly doubt is stands 7 inches tall [not including the tubes ofc] 
  
 still that's not bad I have a little table set aside for it!


----------



## john57

Great as long it is on the top self and does not move since the feet will be on the edge using the measurements I gave you!


----------



## Makiah S

john57 said:


> Great as long it is on the top self and does not move since the feet will be on the edge using the measurements I gave you!


 
  
 On yea this table is like 2feet sqaured. It's what I use to take pics of my gear atm so there is plenty of room for an amp+ my Woo Audio Stand, 
  
 and it's only a table no shelvs yet for me :3


----------



## FieldPoint

@john57
 @Mshenay
  
 Thanks, guys!
  
 It seems fit my rack, OK.
  
 I consider LD VI+ for my HE-6 solely.
  
 But the more I listen to HifiMANs with my cheapo NAD C326BEE, the more I hesitate about LD...


----------



## Makiah S

fieldpoint said:


> @john57
> @Mshenay
> 
> Thanks, guys!
> ...


 
  
 There was one member who really like it for the HE 6, and a balanced tube should be better than a cheap SE one.
  
 Still when I get to the HE 6 I plan to upgrade to the hopefully still PCM based Audio gd Ref 10.32
  
 it's still 6w at 50ohms so it's more powerful than the EF6.
  
 I just wonder if the tube will have enough current to drive it,


----------



## zenpunk

I tried the NAD briefly with the HE-6 and it sounded good but can't compete with the ultra-realism of the LD


----------



## Makiah S

zenpunk said:


> I tried the NAD briefly with the HE-6 and it sounded good but can't compete with the ultra-realism of the LD


 
  
 Indeed, that Ultra Real sound of the LD is what I am hoping for. Plenty of you have said that even the stock tubes have a good sound to them!  not sure If I'll grab the LDVI+ in winter or in the Spring...


----------



## baronbeehive

zenpunk said:


> I tried the NAD briefly with the HE-6 and it sounded good but can't compete with the ultra-realism of the LD


 
  
 That's what gets me with the LD. Realism but beautiful sound as well. I haven't heard anything yet which sounds harsh at all. Also I find in balanced mode the soundstage is more realistic with depth as well as width. When I switch it on I have my very own band there standing behind the speakers, or outside my head with the cans. Also the mkvi+ will be very  versatile as well.


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> That's what gets me with the LD. Realism but beautiful sound as well. I haven't heard anything yet which sounds harsh at all. Also I find in balanced mode the soundstage is more realistic with depth as well as width. When I switch it on I have my very own band there standing behind the speakers, or outside my head with the cans. Also the mkvi+ will be very  versatile as well.


 
  
 Again happy to hear that, I do belive the balanced design helps with that realism. Breaking down the sound into 4 channels and amping them seperatly, should offer a much cleaner sound then the traditional 2 channel design 
  
 still I might get this in December  [although I'd have to balance my w1000x q.q and that's going to take some time to get them back >.>]


----------



## john57

My advice if you are going to stay with single ended outputs but wanted tubes one consideration is the Schiit Lyr. It is a strong hybrid tube amp using a pair of 6DJ8/6922 and has Maximum Power of 6 watts into 32 ohms or 4 watts into 50 ohms. Like my Little Dot VI+ both are DC coupled at the outputs and both are using DC servos in the circuit. If I wanted all balanced SS amp I would also look into Schiit Mjolnir product which has balanced outs only. All Schiit transformers, boards, casework and assembly are all done in USA with a five year warranty.  By the way my Shiit is sitting next to my LD VI+ and both are driven by separate pro audio cards in one computer. Both are also driving separate sets of powered  near field audio monitors. My brand new JBL LSR305 monitors has the best performance/price ratio I ever heard in a monitor and their are many I have heard in my lifetime. My Schiit is driving my JBL’s and the LD VI+ is driving my Emotiva Airmotiv 6 in addition to headphones. I have over 30 years of listening and working with audio. I do desktop video editing and music composing with my computer as a DAW (digital audio Workstation). Three keyboards I can use. I have multi OS’s on my computer that I can chose during boot up. It is a feature that is built-in with my motherboard to avoid conflicts and to maximize resources depending on the kind of work I wanted to do at the time.  My Schiit and the LD which does have greater depth more of a feeling being in a concert hall but both are champions in their right.


----------



## Makiah S

john57 said:


> My advice if you are going to stay with single ended outputs but wanted tubes one consideration is the Schiit Lyr. It is a strong hybrid tube amp using a pair of 6DJ8/6922 and has Maximum Power of 6 watts into 32 ohms or 4 watts into 50 ohms. Like my Little Dot VI+ both are DC coupled at the outputs and both are using DC servos in the circuit. If I wanted all balanced SS amp I would also look into Schiit Mjolnir product which has balanced outs only. All Schiit transformers, boards, casework and assembly are all done in USA with a five year warranty.  By the way my Shiit is sitting next to my LD VI+ and both are driven by separate pro audio cards in one computer. Both are also driving separate sets of powered  near field audio monitors. My brand new JBL LSR305 monitors has the best performance/price ratio I ever heard in a monitor and their are many I have heard in my lifetime. My Schiit is driving my JBL’s and the LD VI+ is driving my Emotiva Airmotiv 6 in addition to headphones. I have over 30 years of listening and working with audio. I do desktop video editing and music composing with my computer as a DAW (digital audio Workstation). Three keyboards I can use. I have multi OS’s on my computer that I can chose during boot up. It is a feature that is built-in with my motherboard to avoid conflicts and to maximize resources depending on the kind of work I wanted to do at the time.  My Schiit and the LD which does have greater depth more of a feeling being in a concert hall but both are champions in their right.


 
  
 Was that directed at me? I guess I should mention I have a balanced HE 400 and Dt 880 600 ohm, so my w1000x is the last to be balanced out of sheer laziness.
  
 Still I already have an Audio GD 10ES2, and while the Mojinir does (according to impressions) sound a tad bit better than the 10ES2, it cost twice as much so... I'm happy with my current Solid State Balanced Dac/Amp
  
 In addition, I'm  going all balanced with everything I have. Again will get the W1000x balanced when I get this amp. seeing as I only use my w1000x on the go, I really need to get a new amp for it, when I do balance it. My poor pb1 is stuck in High Gain, although it sounds very nice with the w1000x and the HE 400, still I might want to grab a RSA F-35 winter and see if I cannot retire the pb1 as it's stuck in high gain, although I do like the upper mid boost of the pb1, still if the F35 is as transparent as they say it is... it should pair very nice with the HM801, 
  
 So I'm not sure If I want to get this in the winter of the spring... as either way, I'll have to go without my w1000x for a month or so q.q 
  
 but yea I don't want any SE amps at home, or portable for that matter


----------



## FieldPoint

I've recently got a new full balanced source also, and I'm going to use it to full potential. And I believe it can be easier achieved with balanced amp rather than SE (considering amps of similar quality/price brackets, sorry if I'm sound as Capt. Obvious here...).
  
 @john57
 Thanks for mentioning Schiit Mjolnir. I've just studied a bigger chunk of its' dedicated thread here. Seems that general consensus is that Mjolnir, being a fantastic amp with a number of top tier cans, is not optimal for HE-6.
 People mostly recommend to use speaker taps of stereo integrated/power amps to unleash the potential of HE-6.
  
 On the other hand, there is zenpunk's system of LD MKVI+ -> HE-6 here, which is quite positively appreciated (someone even mentioned that this system for him was the best sounding combo at a London meet...)
  
 So, now I consider:
 - LD MKVI+
 - any speaker amp with balanced input, used or new: Vinsent 121, TEAC I2000, Roksan Caspian M2, CA 840/851, etc. - it's a plenty of them, prices just go up and up the ladder...
  
 I wonder if someone had a chance to compare MKVI+ to above mentioned with HE-6.
 (Perhaps, I'd also move to HE-6 amplification thread with that...)


----------



## john57

FieldPoint
  
 While I never heard the HE-6 with my  LD VI+  or with the Schiit, the best hybrid amp I have heard with the HE-6 was the Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold at close to $4k. I personally meet with Alex Cavalli last year at the RMAF. Alex designed the Liquid Gold to work  with the HE-6 since it seems to be Alex favorite headphone and he talks a lot about it. I can not afford the LG and I had space concerns got the Lyr for my second monitor setup. However the LD VI+ remains a fantastic amp for me to use with my primary monitor setup. I have not kept up with the HE-6 amplification thread.


----------



## FieldPoint

john57,
  
 Thanks for the Cavalli LG suggestion. Amps from the new batch will be available since November (at least as stated on their web-site). Promising 9W into 50 Ohm load, including first 2,25W (@50 Ohm) in pure Class A! Very tempting, but I also have my financial limitations.
 In this regards LD MKVI+ looks as a great bargain...


----------



## vlach

Anyone compared the LD MkVl+ against the WA2?


----------



## atistatic

Hey guys, the TRS Jack of LD MK VI+ is balanced?


----------



## DefQon

No.


----------



## 2K9R56S

Can it get better?  Yes.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-Electro-Harmonix-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-2-/280848457382?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4163df5ea6
  
 A little less bass than the Tung-Sols, but the mids have definitely been kicked up a notch.


----------



## DefQon

The EH tubes are amongst the worst you can buy. A reason why they are so cheap, next to the bog standard Chinese tubes that come supplied with the amp.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Can it get better?  Yes.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6SN7-Electro-Harmonix-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-2-/280848457382?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4163df5ea6
> 
> A little less bass than the Tung-Sols, but the mids have definitely been kicked up a notch.


 
 u get ur w1k in yet :3


----------



## alota

defqon said:


> The EH tubes are amongst the worst you can buy. A reason why they are so cheap, next to the bog standard Chinese tubes that come supplied with the amp.


 
 +1 and this is not the gold pin version


----------



## Makiah S

alota said:


> +1 and this is not the gold pin version


 
 $45 is cheap q.q


----------



## alota

mshenay said:


> $45 is cheap q.q


 
 of course but i think that is not a good tube. another modern orrible tube is tung-sol


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> u get ur w1k in yet :3


 
  
  
 Not yet.


----------



## 2K9R56S

defqon said:


> The EH tubes are amongst the worst you can buy. A reason why they are so cheap, next to the bog standard Chinese tubes that come supplied with the amp.


 
  
  
 I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for asking this, but can you elaborate on your blanket statement that 'EH tubes are the worst...'?  Worst what?  Sound?  Build quality?  Lifespan?  All the above?


----------



## 2K9R56S

alota said:


> +1 and this is not the gold pin version


 
  
 So the gold pins make them un-horrible?


----------



## alota

2k9r56s said:


> So the gold pins make them un-horrible?


 
 no but is a little better.
 the problem is that some modern tubes are cheap but the quality is not the same compared to nos tubes.
 is also true that, today, some nos tubes are like a "Cartier" ring.
 another question is that the 6sn7 tube type has a less gain compared with the 6sl7 tube type.
 in my opinion, if you didn´t want to spend much,try a matched pair of tung-sol(nos) 6SU7WGT.
 find the 6sl7 family in www.tubeworld.com site.
 i bought some years ago one pair for 95 Dollars.
 is a fairly balanced valve and i liked this tube with the MKVI


----------



## DefQon

2k9r56s said:


> I'm sure I'll be kicking myself for asking this, but can you elaborate on your blanket statement that 'EH tubes are the worst...'?  Worst what?  Sound?  Build quality?  Lifespan?  All the above?


 
 Obviously for the sound which is what I'm talking about. Ask any tube roller here on this forum and any other forums such as AK, AA and diyaudio, the EH tubes are just horrible in audio amplifiers. Used as power tubes in guitar amps and such is a different story, but in any headphone/integrated tube amplifier, stock Chinese and some Russian tubes should be the first thing to go. The cheap GE and RCA stuff are even better than the EH's and these are commonly used EH's I'm talking about, 
 the dual triode family and some pentodes.
  
 And I'd agree with alota as well, modern Russian re-issue Tung Sol's are pretty bad.


----------



## rosgr63

The TS 6SN7 re-issues not only sound bad but also suffer from leakages.
 You need a tester that goes above 0.25MOhm to verify it.
  
 I agree with Aldo and DQ.
  
 A pair of TS 6SU7TGY will be one of the best choices as far as 6SL7 go.
 Then you can try the ECC35, but I don't know how well they perform in the LD.


----------



## Makiah S

alota said:


> of course but i think that is not a good tube. another modern orrible tube is tung-sol


 
  
 FOURTY FIVE IS CHEAP... WHAT THE HELL... that is not cheap. Ok what ever. I'm planning to drop $160 into a pair any ways 


rosgr63 said:


> The TS 6SN7 re-issues not only sound bad but also suffer from leakages.
> You need a tester that goes above 0.25MOhm to verify it.
> 
> I agree with Aldo and DQ.
> ...


 
 Oh yay :\


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> The TS 6SN7 re-issues not only sound bad but also suffer from leakages.
> You need a tester that goes above 0.25MOhm to verify it.
> 
> I agree with Aldo and DQ.
> ...


 
 wise man?!!!


----------



## Makiah S

rosgr63 said:


> The TS 6SN7 re-issues not only sound bad but also suffer from leakages.
> You need a tester that goes above 0.25MOhm to verify it.
> 
> I agree with Aldo and DQ.
> ...


 
 I'll have to keep that in mind!


----------



## 2K9R56S

Okay.  TS and EH Russian tubes are horrible/worst/sound bad, and even shiny gold pins can't save them.  Duly noted.
  
 I'm sure driver tubes costing 2-3 times the price of the TS and EH tubes sound amazing in their own right, I just don't think the TS/EH tubes should be written off.  Regardless of what other people on other boards with other audio amplifiers have to say.  In this case, we're only talking about the MKVI+ drivers...  And to my ears, and obviously mine only, a $50 pair of Russian reissues outperform the stock tubes.  Plain and simple.


----------



## DefQon

2k9r56s said:


> Okay.  TS and EH Russian tubes are horrible/worst/sound bad, and even shiny gold pins can't save them.  Duly noted.
> 
> And to my ears, and obviously mine only, a $50 pair of Russian reissues outperform the stock tubes.  Plain and simple.


 
 Genuine TS tubes are good but come at a commanding price for the rarer NOS units, for the 12xx7 dual triode family, they are facing the same scarcity as the genuine Tesla tubes (a lot of fakes on ebay).
  
 As to your second line, of course a $50 Russian reissue or any cheap $5-8 tube is going to sound better and outperform the stock Chinese tubes, those don't contribute anything to the cost of the amplifier and most are manufacture rejects from the Beijing and Shuguang factories.
  
 Get some good Chinese military reissues from the late 70's to early 80's or modern Psvane or Shuguang tubes which are better than any GE, RCA, Sylvania and right on par with some of the best European counterparts you can buy. But you're paying a lot more than just $50 at that level.


----------



## rosgr63

I agree everybody has their own preferences that's fine.
  
 Remember you can get a NOS pair of wonderful RCA or Tung-Sol 6SN7's for $50, that's all.
  
 Aldo you know me and wisdom don't go together!


----------



## alota

2k9r56s said:


> Okay.  TS and EH Russian tubes are horrible/worst/sound bad, and even shiny gold pins can't save them.  Duly noted.
> 
> I'm sure driver tubes costing 2-3 times the price of the TS and EH tubes sound amazing in their own right, I just don't think the TS/EH tubes should be written off.  Regardless of what other people on other boards with other audio amplifiers have to say.  In this case, we're only talking about the MKVI+ drivers...  And to my ears, and obviously mine only, a $50 pair of Russian reissues outperform the stock tubes.  Plain and simple.


 
 no problema at all.
 i tried the tubes on the little-dot mkVI. plain and simple


----------



## [OverDrive]

Me on the Little Dot MK VI + use the Sylvania 6SL7GT-VT229 del'40.
 Valve from the sound clear and transparent. Great detail and stage.
  
http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d/10218-2/Sylvania+VT-229+1944+Jan+CHS+6SL7GT+Black+Plates+Tall+Bottle+1+-+USA.jpg


----------



## alota

[overdrive] said:


> Me on the Little Dot MK VI + use the Sylvania 6SL7GT-VT229 del'40.
> Valve from the sound clear and transparent. Great detail and stage.
> 
> http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/d/10218-2/Sylvania+VT-229+1944+Jan+CHS+6SL7GT+Black+Plates+Tall+Bottle+1+-+USA.jpg


 
 you´re deaf


----------



## [OverDrive]

then both are deaf... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Oh, I've almost forgotten, bendix 6080WB power tubes ( recommendend by a deaf!!!!)


----------



## zenpunk

yeeees , those VT229 are very good.


----------



## baronbeehive

[overdrive] said:


> Oh, I've almost forgotten, bendix 6080WB power tubes ( recommendend by a deaf!!!!)


 
 Well I may be deaf but you've got to admit those LOOK better than stock tubes!


----------



## alota

baronbeehive said:


> Well I may be deaf but you've got to admit those LOOK better than stock coke bottles!


 
 i think he was not talking about you
 i´m the truly deaf


----------



## Makiah S

seriosuly any one have a concrete recommendation on upgrade to the stock power and driver tubes? Something around $150 would be nice
  
 for those that know me I like as much air and detail as I can get, I do want to reaserach tubes and get into the whole tube rolling experince, but I need a starting set. Stocks are not well worth while imo, and I'd like to make a semi inexpensive upgrade and get the stock tubes out of there asap. THen once I've got something half decent in there, then I'd like to HUNT for the perfect tube, still any recommendation on a good jack of all upgrade to the stocks?


----------



## baronbeehive

alota said:


> i think he was not talking about you
> i´m the truly deaf


 
  
 Deaf or not, that looks like one helluva rig to me. It would also be a very good starting point for Mshenay, incidently.
  


mshenay said:


> seriosuly any one have a concrete recommendation on upgrade to the stock power and driver tubes? Something around $150 would be nice
> 
> for those that know me I like as much air and detail as I can get, I do want to reaserach tubes and get into the whole tube rolling experince, but I need a starting set. Stocks are not well worth while imo, and I'd like to make a semi inexpensive upgrade and get the stock tubes out of there asap. THen once I've got something half decent in there, then I'd like to HUNT for the perfect tube, still any recommendation on a good jack of all upgrade to the stocks?


 
 Trouble is the $150 would only pay for the power tubes in the picture. Not sure about the driver tubes but if you're lucky you might get some Tungsols thrown in as well, 6SL7's that is not 6SU7's which are just very expensive quality controlled SL7's, but don't sound any different IMHO.


----------



## baronbeehive

Thanks for saying I'm not deaf by the way but unless I'm much mistaken in the picture, Bendixes give a lovely mix of clarity and warmth, the same with Sylvanias, ideal. I think I did mention the Bendixes though....... or maybe it was John originally, this thread's getting to long, it's starting to get repetitive.


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> Deaf or not, that looks like one helluva rig to me. It would also be a very good starting point for Mshenay, incidently.
> 
> Trouble is the $150 would only pay for the power tubes in the picture.


 
 great, so what would be a better upgrade.  A Power tube upgrade OR a driver tube upgrade.


----------



## baronbeehive

Driver every time, as John said earlier.


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> Driver every time, as John said earlier.


 
 so let's start there. Any good intro Driver Tubes I should keep an eye out for?


----------



## baronbeehive

You could do a lot worse than start with the 6SN7 tubes. I would try one or two affordable ones first. For example the RCA 6sn7GTB's are one of my fav all rounders, nice warm but detailed balanced smooth sound with good bass. Cheap as chips. Same goes for Sylvania 6sn7's, warm and bright and much dryer. Raytheon 6SN7GT's are warm and punchy and fall somewhere between the RCA's and Sylvania's with more body to the sound than the Sylvanias. Tungsol 6sn7GT's are my favourites for their silky, magical sound which has a layer of treacle which some do not like but makes listening very non fatigueing. All these have their 6SL7 equivalents eg the Tungsol 6SL7's sound exactly the same as the 6SN7's to me. But you do need to make sure that the construction is the same, for example the best Tungsols are round plate construction with black, or sometimes silver coated glass. There are a lot of other makes for example Brimar and Mullard. Frankly I preferred cheap RCA's to Brimars that I've heard. Most of these other makes are very expensive and difficult to find so you could make a useful start from here.
  
 This is a useful link to the Brent Jesse website, he has useful descriptions and prices: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> You could do a lot worse than start with the 6SN7 tubes. I would try one or two affordable ones first. For example the RCA 6sn7GTB's are one of my fav all rounders, nice warm but detailed balanced smooth sound with good bass. Cheap as chips. Same goes for Sylvania 6sn7's, warm and bright and much dryer. Raytheon 6SN7GT's are warm and punchy and fall somewhere between the RCA's and Sylvania's with more body to the sound than the Sylvanias. Tungsol 6sn7GT's are my favourites for their silky, magical sound which has a layer of treacle which some do not like but makes listening very non fatigueing. All these have their 6SL7 equivalents eg the Tungsol 6SL7's sound exactly the same as the 6SN7's to me. But you do need to make sure that the construction is the same, for example the best Tungsols are round plate construction with black, or sometimes silver coated glass. There are a lot of other makes for example Brimar and Mullard. Frankly I preferred cheap RCA's to Brimars that I've heard. Most of these other makes are very expensive and difficult to find so you could make a useful start from here.
> 
> This is a useful link to the Brent Jesse website, he has useful descriptions and prices: http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm


 
 I Pinned the website down. Hopefully come winter I can pick up a pair from that site! Thatnks for the recommendation. Makes searaching for tubes a little easier


----------



## Dopaminer

You guys.....help me.  I`ve been staggering around threads, on multiple forums, multiple languages, hundreds of pages read, hundreds of hours of sleep lost, narcoleptic all day, performance at work degraded, etc. etc, trying to nail down an amp.  I keep thinking I`ve found The One, and then I fall down yet another rabbit hole of details, options I didn`t know existed, makers I didn`t know existed, strong opinions that directly, convincingly contradict the previous opinions I`d come to believe, shipping hassles that negate the choice, etc etc  .  .  
  
 I`m sure some of you have been here before. 
  
 Anyway, could some one, or several of you, give me a quick summary of the differences between the Mark vi+ and Markviiise?  I get the basics, the technicals, the high/low z, etc - I can read the spec pages.  And I currently know nothing (and currently don`t care) about tube rolling.  I just want to jump into the tube audio world.  I Iive in Japan, so the Chinese makers will ship here for free, whereas Woo, Schiit, Decware, DNA etc are very expensive to get here.   And hopefully, some comparison to the Darkvoice/Figaro 339 which is similarly priced, similarly raved about and also ships for free. 
  
 I`m sick of reviewers; I like the expert, articulate, bantering nature of this thread and I`m hoping for some nice one liners to help me F I N A L L Y make a choice.  
  
 (fyi:  high-res, multi-genre files from Mac w/Amarra, Audirvana+ to fully balanced DAC.  Phones are hd800. . .)
  
 Thanks in advance
  
 d


----------



## [OverDrive]

alota said:


> i think he was not talking about you
> i´m the truly deaf


 
 exactly


----------



## alota

dopaminer said:


> You guys.....help me.  I`ve been staggering around threads, on multiple forums, multiple languages, hundreds of pages read, hundreds of hours of sleep lost, narcoleptic all day, performance at work degraded, etc. etc, trying to nail down an amp.  I keep thinking I`ve found The One, and then I fall down yet another rabbit hole of details, options I didn`t know existed, makers I didn`t know existed, strong opinions that directly, convincingly contradict the previous opinions I`d come to believe, shipping hassles that negate the choice, etc etc  .  .
> 
> I`m sure some of you have been here before.
> 
> ...


 
 Little-dot MKVI is an otl-ocl amp that drives hedphones from 32 to 300 ohm(what i have tried), including akg k-1000 and orthos headphones.
 little-dot MKVIII is an otl-ocl amp(same type but with different tubes)that drives only headphones with high impedance(300-600 ohm)


----------



## Makiah S

alota said:


> Little-dot MKVI is an otl-ocl amp that drives hedphones from 32 to 300 ohm(what i have tried), including akg k-1000 and orthos headphones.
> little-dot MKVIII is an otl-ocl amp(same type but with different tubes)that drives only headphones with high impedance(300-600 ohm)


 
 ... honestly I'm happy to hear that. I have mostly Low Impedance cans that I want to pair with it


----------



## DefQon

They aren't really designed to power low-impedence high sensitivity headphones such as Grados or the Sony's, you'll get background hum.


----------



## alota

mshenay said:


> ... honestly I'm happy to hear that. I have mostly Low Impedance cans that I want to pair with it


 
  
  


defqon said:


> They aren't really designed to power low-impedence high sensitivity headphones such as Grados or the Sony's, you'll get background hum.


 
 probably but i wrote in another post that the MKVI with my hf-2 recabled was one of the best combos that i listened.
 no hum at all.
 but, of course, ther needs to experience with another low impedance headphones


----------



## DefQon

alota said:


> probably but i wrote in another post that the MKVI with my hf-2 recabled was one of the best combos that i listened.
> no hum at all.
> but, of course, ther needs to experience with another low impedance headphones


 
 Some users had background noise with high sensitivity headphones in this thread, my then recabled Sony MDR CD950 (50ohm's) had hissing noise on SE and balanced.


----------



## alota

defqon said:


> Some users had background noise with high sensitivity headphones in this thread, my then recabled Sony MDR CD950 (50ohm's) had hissing noise on SE and balanced.


 
 i believe you.
 i tried 32 ohm and 60(jvc dx-1000) ohm and i had no problems


----------



## [OverDrive]

defqon said:


> Some users had background noise with high sensitivity headphones in this thread, my then recabled Sony MDR CD950 (50ohm's) had hissing noise on SE and balanced.


 
 Sure it was not a problem of valve microphone?


----------



## DefQon

[overdrive] said:


> Sure it was not a problem of valve microphone?




Nope.


----------



## zenpunk

My balanced DX1000 and most very sensitive headphones had a VERY low level hum. Tubes had an impact on the hum level. The LD apparently is designed to work on 230V but in the UK it is often closer to 250V so that might also have had an impact.
 I was shocked to learn that somebody apparently used his LD MK6 with CIEM and had no issues with hum?


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> They aren't really designed to power low-impedence high sensitivity headphones such as Grados or the Sony's, you'll get background hum.


 
  
  


zenpunk said:


> My balanced DX1000 and most very sensitive headphones had a VERY low level hum. Tubes had an impact on the hum level. The LD apparently is designed to work on 230V but in the UK it is often closer to 250V so that might also have had an impact.
> I was shocked to learn that somebody apparently used his LD MK6 with CIEM and had no issues with hum?


 
 ugh I keep hearing about hum with sensitive and low impedance headphones -.- why can't some one make a balanced tube for use with super senstive cans *face palm* I mean hell I might as well get the Vali if the LD MK VI+ is totally silent either


----------



## DefQon

You can use an impedance adaptor if you're going to be using any IEM/headphone rated at 32ohms or less


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> You can use an impedance adaptor if you're going to be using any IEM/headphone rated at 32ohms or less


 
 Ahh I've wondered if something like that existed... how ever do they make them in XLR format and if they are most commonly SE where can you by them?


----------



## DefQon

You can make one with less than $25. Two resistors for signal and two jacks on both ends to accept the connection.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> You can make one with less than $25. Two resistors for signal and two jacks on both ends to accept the connection.


 
 can you buy them in SE, I do not have the time nor skill to make anything


----------



## zenpunk

The MK6 was specially designed to power the K1000 and other hard to drive headphones (low sensitivity) and remains one of the most powerful headpone amplifier available today. 
 Getting this amp to power iems and other easy to drive headphones is a bit daft, IMO.


----------



## atistatic

defqon said:


> Some users had background noise with high sensitivity headphones in this thread, my then recabled Sony MDR CD950 (50ohm's) had hissing noise on SE and balanced.


 
 do you have a balanced source?


----------



## Makiah S

zenpunk said:


> The MK6 was specially designed to power the K1000 and other hard to drive headphones (low sensitivity) and remains one of the most powerful headpone amplifier available today.
> Getting this amp to power iems and other easy to drive headphones is a bit daft, IMO.


 
 Well then are there any other balanced tube amps on the market then -.-


----------



## zenpunk

You are right there isn't a lot. DNA's new Stratus or EC BA but those are quite expensive.


----------



## john57

mshenay said:


> Well then are there any other balanced tube amps on the market then -.-


 
 The bottlehead new Smack http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/mainline-headphone-amplifier-kit
  Not much in balanced headphone amps more in power amps like  JE AUDIO,  Audio Research are some.


----------



## Makiah S

john57 said:


> The bottlehead new Smack http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/mainline-headphone-amplifier-kit
> Not much in balanced headphone amps more in power amps like  JE AUDIO,  Audio Research are some.


 
 I might just have to invest in a 300 Ohm resistor and enjoy SE. Least till I can get a custom 4pin XLR resitor cord built


----------



## G600

I'm reading the whole thread, and i have a question for you john57.
 You told us you were enjoying your MK6+ with your Esi Juli@.
 I own this sound card, and I'm looking for an amp for my upcoming LCD-2.
  
 Would you be so kind to describe what you get, and how does it compare with the other balanced DACs you own ?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## john57

First the ESI Juli@ is the best balanced DAC I have tried that works very well with the LD VI+. The Juli card has the best clarity and punchy dynamics of all the balanced DAC’s that I have tried. It seems that the LD VI+ is quite picky on the balanced DAC being used to sound best. Also the Juli card give the best flexibility on the computer for watching and listening to videos, music, operas, 3D classical concerts on 3D blu-ray, streaming classical concerts around the world in real time, compatibility with my Giga Studio, works well with MIDI for composing music on keyboards and works with my various DAW(digital Work Station)  software.  I also have M-audio 192 card that uses the same DAC chip as the Juli@ card but the Juli@ sounds better since it has a dedicated Balanced output stage and uses more SMD parts than the M-audio. Also the M-audio makes strange noises during computer shutdown that the Juli@ does not. The drivers on the Juli@ card are a bit more refined and I can use WASAPI in event mode. The only drawback on the Juli@ card is that the breakout cables do not lock on with the computer. 
Other outboard DAC’s that I tried was the Behringer SRC2496 which is a tweaker delight with many buttons, switches and lights. However I brought it second hand and the power supply was weak on it and it gotten too weak to maintain the switch settings after one year.
Next was the RDL HR-DAC1 brand new is a bit mellower than the Behringer but had issues in maintaining dynamics and clear transit peaks. The left channel blew out in five months.
Next was the Emotiva XDA-1 which I brought during its closeout sale but found that the single ended outputs was of better sound quality than the balanced outs on the same DAC.
I also have tried unbalanced DAC’s like California Audio labs but never had great treble on it. The Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 which was my first DAC for use in my computer blew out the input receiver while I was updating the M-audio drivers. I have gotten in touch with an engineer for Sonic Frontiers that had a repair shop at the time but was not willing to fix my SFD-2. That’s in a nutshell!


----------



## DefQon

I've been interested in the Juli@ for quite a while but never seem to be able to find decent prices for them, I think I might opt for the Juli@ Xte since it is PCI-Express based which is very handy as PCI is quite dated and becoming more and more redundant in favour for PCI-Express lanes, John how does one hook it up balanced to a balanced amp that sports XLR connections?


----------



## john57

Juli@ cards are hard to find and I was surprised that ESI updated the drivers. When you get the card you would have to take the bottom apart and flip it and reattach so that the balanced hardware chips are connected and the balanced TRS connections are on the outside. Then you get two 1/4 TRS to XLR Male Cables. The TRS goes to the Juli@ card and the XLR to the LD. You can find these on Amazon, monoprice or blue jeans cables. I metion Blue Jeans cable since on their web site you can have any custom length, color or cable type without laying out too much money.


----------



## DefQon

Confirmed my suspicions thanks for that John.


----------



## john57

I did a quick check for the Juli@ and it seems that B&H photo has the cheapest price at $170. While this is not cheap but it is one of the cleanest PCI sound card around and still is. I built all my computer from the ground up from parts everywhere. By the time I finish building the computer it is outdated. It used to be like 10 years ago I was very frustrated with computer technology being so slow for my needs and took hours and hours to generate good quality post video audio work. Now we are at the point of dismissing returns. There are people in the middle of NYC still making a living using Commodore and Amiga computer equipment. I even used Atari desktop computer system which was great for music creation in its days.


----------



## DefQon

Yeah checking out on ebay there returns a few of the XTe models (PCI-Express version) after Euro to AUD conversion works out at about $240 shipped, little bit more than what I paid for my current Creative X-Fi Fatality Professional sound card.


----------



## G600

Thank you very much for your experience John57.
 I'll save a great amount of bucks by using my Juli@ instead of picking a new DAC... Useful for tube rolling !
  
 DefQon : you can sell your Creative with no doubt. Even if the Juli@ is looked upon by some to be outdated, it is still a mind blowing soundcard, even for a slightly higher price.
 And balanced output for that price...!
 You are right to buy it PCIx. PCi is disappearing, and the few motherboards that still use it pass the signal through an external controller, wich may be a bottleneck.


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Thank you very much for your experience John57.
> I'll save a great amount of bucks by using my Juli@ instead of picking a new DAC... Useful for tube rolling !
> 
> DefQon : you can sell your Creative with no doubt. Even if the Juli@ is looked apon by some to be outdated, it is still a mind blowing soundcard, even for a slightly higher price.
> ...


 
 Indeed, the Juli@ is intended for studio and professional work so it uses some no parts compromise in terms of quality and engineering. What's even better is should I feel the need to boost my placebo and want MOAR sound quality, I can just hook the Juli@ to an external DAC and enjoy the music.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> Indeed, the Juli@ is intended for studio and professional work so it uses some no parts compromise in terms of quality and engineering. What's even better is should I feel the need to boost my placebo and want MOAR sound quality, I can just hook the Juli@ to an external DAC and enjoy the music.


 
 Heck now I want one of those Sound Cards :O... my next rig might have one... maybe... 
  
 ANY word on the dude who got his w1000x balanced


----------



## G600

defqon said:


> I feel the need to boost my placebo and want MOAR sound quality, I can just hook the Juli@ to an external DAC and enjoy the music.


 






 ...if you want to boost placebo AND if you have too much money...


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> Heck now I want one of those Sound Cards :O... my next rig might have one... maybe...
> 
> ANY word on the dude who got his w1000x balanced


 
  
 Still waiting.  Hasn't quite been 4 weeks yet.
  
 In the meantime, I've installed these:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/271285052169
  
 And these:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608006
  
 It no longer sounds like a garbage disposal.  Those stock fans are complete $#!t.


----------



## DefQon

Yeah Noctua the way to go. You can have 12cm fans as well as they push more air and run quieter just the vents are more for 80mm's. I can't stand 80mm fans.


----------



## Dopaminer

alota said:


> Little-dot MKVI is an otl-ocl amp that drives hedphones from 32 to 300 ohm(what i have tried), including akg k-1000 and orthos headphones.
> little-dot MKVIII is an otl-ocl amp(same type but with different tubes)that drives only headphones with high impedance(300-600 ohm)


 
 Littledot`s website claims the mkvi goes to 600 ohms. . . .  
  
 Really, subjectively, anyone, what is the difference between these amps beyond price ?  Or maybe I should ask what, if any, reason is there to get the viii and not the vi ?  I`m driving hd800s. . . .


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Still waiting.  Hasn't quite been 4 weeks yet.
> 
> In the meantime, I've installed these:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/271285052169
> 
> ...


 
 Nice I got one of those as well! In my pc, and wait you installed a new fan in your Amp :O


----------



## alota

dopaminer said:


> Littledot`s website claims the mkvi goes to 600 ohms. . . .
> 
> Really, subjectively, anyone, what is the difference between these amps beyond price ?  Or maybe I should ask what, if any, reason is there to get the viii and not the vi ?  I`m driving hd800s. . . .


 
 i wrote about my experience


----------



## 2K9R56S

dopaminer said:


> Littledot`s website claims the mkvi goes to 600 ohms. . . .
> 
> Really, subjectively, anyone, what is the difference between these amps beyond price ?  Or maybe I should ask what, if any, reason is there to get the viii and not the vi ?  I`m driving hd800s. . . .


 
  
 I can't speak for the 800s, but I think the MKVI+ is a bit underpowered when trying to drive 650s.  That's with the amp on low gain and with the tubes mentioned earlier that everyone loves.  With a balanced DAC feeding it, anything higher than 85 just starts to sound...  Stressed?  Slightly distorted?  Not very good.  Flipping the switch to high gain introduces additional noise and overall doesn't sound that great.  I plug them into the Lyr sitting next to the MKVI+ and they sound like they should at the higher levels.  The WA6 I used to have had an even harder time with the 650s.
  
 However, my 650s are just a few months old too.  This all may change after many more hours of listening.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> I can't speak for the 800s, but I think the MKVI+ is a bit underpowered when trying to drive 650s.  That's with the amp on low gain and with the tubes mentioned earlier that everyone loves.  With a balanced DAC feeding it, anything higher than 85 just starts to sound...  Stressed?  Slightly distorted?  Not very good.  Flipping the switch to high gain introduces additional noise and overall doesn't sound that great.  I plug them into the Lyr sitting next to the MKVI+ and they sound like they should at the higher levels.  The WA6 I used to have had an even harder time with the 650s.
> 
> However, my 650s are just a few months old too.  This all may change after many more hours of listening.


 
 ... 2K how did the LDMKvi+ drive the w1000x... in se


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> Nice I got one of those as well! In my pc, and wait you installed a new fan in your Amp :O


 
  
 There's two 80mm fans on the bottom cover.
  
 4th post down:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/355165/little-dot-mkvi-has-arrived/45
  
 I thought maybe some packaging material got stuck in the fan the first time I turned it on.  Nope, just really sh!tty fans.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> There's two 80mm fans on the bottom cover.
> 
> 4th post down:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/355165/little-dot-mkvi-has-arrived/45
> 
> I thought maybe some packaging material got stuck in the fan the first time I turned it on.  Nope, just really sh!tty fans.


 
 I think I have some 80mm left over from the new ones I installed in my Pc


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> ... 2K how did the LDMKvi+ drive the w1000x... in se


 
  
 Never got the chance to try them.  I sent the ATs off the day before the MKVI+ arrived, not knowing the MKVI+ was already in transit.
  
 However, I think the MKVI+ won't have a problem at all with them.  Especially since the WA6 drove them with ease.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Never got the chance to try them.  I sent the ATs off the day before the MKVI+ arrived, not knowing the MKVI+ was already in transit.
> 
> However, I think the MKVI+ won't have a problem at all with them.  Especially since the WA6 drove them with ease.


 
 how was the noise


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> how was the noise


 
  
 Dead silent.


----------



## Opethian10

I took my busted MKVI+ to a local reputable shop in San Jose yesterday. Originally thought it was just a bad fuse, but the shop owner thinks the power transformer malfunctioned as well. Looks like I'm biting the bullet and sending this one back to China for repair. 

Aside from that, has anyone tried drilling holes into the top of the amp for ventilation? It seemed to us that there is no place for heat to escape with the standard enclosure. Wondering what good the fans even do under this assumption.

Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Dead silent.


 
 can we assume the LD MK IV+ is that quiet?


----------



## 2K9R56S

opethian10 said:


> I took my busted MKVI+ to a local reputable shop in San Jose yesterday. Originally thought it was just a bad fuse, but the shop owner thinks the power transformer malfunctioned as well. Looks like I'm biting the bullet and sending this one back to China for repair.
> 
> Aside from that, has anyone tried drilling holes into the top of the amp for ventilation? It seemed to us that there is no place for heat to escape with the standard enclosure. Wondering what good the fans even do under this assumption.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.


 
  
 Does yours not have the holes dotted around each of the six tube sockets?


----------



## 2K9R56S

mshenay said:


> can we assume the LD MK IV+ is that quiet?


 
  
 Close to it.  And only on low gain.


----------



## john57

opethian10 said:


> Aside from that, has anyone tried drilling holes into the top of the amp for ventilation? It seemed to us that there is no place for heat to escape with the standard enclosure. Wondering what good the fans even do under this assumption.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.


 
 There are holes around the tube sockets for the heat to escape. That roughly 60 holes on the top.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Close to it.  And only on low gain.


 
 ofc only on low gain... my old Hybrid Tubes where really noisy on high gain with the w1000x as well


----------



## elwappo99

opethian10 said:


> I took my busted MKVI+ to a local reputable shop in San Jose yesterday. Originally thought it was just a bad fuse, but the shop owner thinks the power transformer malfunctioned as well. Looks like I'm biting the bullet and sending this one back to China for repair.
> 
> Aside from that, has anyone tried drilling holes into the top of the amp for ventilation? It seemed to us that there is no place for heat to escape with the standard enclosure. Wondering what good the fans even do under this assumption.
> 
> Thanks for any feedback.


 
  
 Ouch! Sounds like the same problem my unit had.


----------



## Opethian10

elwappo99 said:


> Ouch! Sounds like the same problem my unit had.


This is the same amp!! I bought it from you, remember


----------



## DefQon

Theoretically the ventilation in the VI and VIIi SE is fairly poor for the amount components inside, the holes around the tubes is not sufficient enough. The case work is definitely an area David skimped out on in costs which explains some of the overheating problems presebt in the unit.


----------



## john57

defqon said:


> Theoretically the ventilation in the VI and VIIi SE is fairly poor for the amount components inside, the holes around the tubes is not sufficient enough. The case work is definitely an area David skimped out on in costs which explains some of the overheating problems present in the unit.


 
 Sword yang is the designer and there was just a few slots on the circuit board for ventilation. That is a pitfall of using circuit board in hot running amps. My Quicksilver mono M135 blocks amps do not have fans since it is a hand point to point wired design. My concern is the transformers do not get any ventilation at all.  My custom tube amp from Glenn did run hot most of the time.


----------



## DefQon

Using point to point for amp like this would've meant more ventilation but would mean the amp will cost 2-3x as much and a bigger chassis required.


----------



## john57

Yes, all designs involves compromise. Just hopefully that my LD VI+ will last a long time.


----------



## DefQon

john57 said:


> Yes, all designs involves compromise. Just hopefully that my LD VI+ will last a long time.


 
 I'd probably rebuild the LV VI+ in a bigger chassis if I were to keep it as an end game amp. That said I need to find the pieces of my VI+ that I salvaged for another amp. (Yes guilty).


----------



## elwappo99

opethian10 said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > Ouch! Sounds like the same problem my unit had.
> ...


 
  
 Gah! I was in a rush and replied without even looking at your name. Wonder what the issue is? David had Sword do a lot of testing on the unit to ensure it was in really good shape. Please mention to him you purchased the unit from me and really push him on it. He assured me it wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## baronbeehive

That's a shame, don't anybody try to follow my speaker setup mentioned earlier. I just found out that it is not advisable to use the LD as a preamp to a direct coupled power amp due to the danger to the speakers if a valve malfunctions. I say a shame because it was pretty much the perfect setup with the LD moderating the digital tendencies of the power amp, a nuforce icon-2, and producing a lovely round sound without any annoying splashyness of the high hats etc. Oh well no tubes in my speaker setup, damn!


----------



## Karllin

Hello Everyone,

I am a long-time reader and finally decided to buy a Little Dot VI+ and DAC_III. I am using them with my eight year old HD650 which I bought a set on balanced cables to use with the MK6. Still have the original tubes, GE 6080 x 4 and some Chinese 6N9P, but have already bought 4x Western Electric 421A and 2x TungSol 6SU7GTY. Unfortunately those have been shipped to my home and I am traveling. I chose those tubes based on a lot of reading here and the fact that I found them very cheap.

So far, I love the MK6. Even with the original tubes, the sound is much more defined and rich than any other source I have used in the past. Having said that, I must say I am looking forward to the 421a and 6SU7GTY replacements!

Now for two questions I have. I know I am new here and no one here owes me any answers, but I would appreciate any feedback from anyone that might know. Hopefully, I will learn from now and be able to help others in the future.

1) In 4 power tube amps, like the MK VI, do all four tubes need to be matched or is it OK to have two matched pairs?

2)My DAC_III output channels are reversed. Right is left and left is right. I texted the designer and he replied "The SAMP key output channels can be exchanged". Is he saying that there is a setting, or is he saying I should simply reverse my cables and plug the right cable into the left output, etc...? I suppose that would not have any adverse affect, but not sure if I am completely pleased if the output channels have been wired backwards in a brand new unit.

Sorry to sign up and start off by asking questions. I just found from reading this forums there are many knowledgable, helpful members here. 

Thanks in advance!

Karl


----------



## alota

karllin said:


> 1) In 4 power tube amps, like the MK VI, do all four tubes need to be matched or is it OK to have two matched pairs?
> 
> 
> 
> Karl


 
 one matched pair for one channel is ther minimum.
 i always bought quad matched tubes for not having balance problems


----------



## Karllin

Thank you, alota.

Is the issue that the lower rated tube channel will have less volume, different sound, or both? 

The reason I asked that question is I bought four 421a tubes that are rated 77/76, 77/77, 76/75, 76/76 with 40 being min. good. Now I am thinking to buy a spare set, but I have only found one pair, so far that is rated 46/47 and 44/45. So if I were to place the 40s pair on one channel and a pair of the 70s on the other, will there be a large discrepancy in sound quality or volume, I guess both?

Thanks again!


----------



## alota

karllin said:


> Thank you, alota.
> 
> Is the issue that the lower rated tube channel will have less volume, different sound, or both?
> 
> ...


 
 i don´t know the answer to this.
 but when i had problem with my tubes, i bought one pair with diferent vlaues and i did not hear a big difference.
 probably, this is due to the dual-mono configuration.
 i hope that some head-fier with technical knowledge will help you


----------



## zenpunk

The amp is self-biasing so it shouldn't matter. Your seem to have nice strong tubes measuring very close to each other so you are good.


----------



## Karllin

Thank you zenpunk.


----------



## john57

Just watch the meters and make sure they stay roughly the same and you are good to go.


----------



## Karllin

I have read some say the MK vi+ will drive he-6. Can anyone who uses the HE-6 with this amp give their experiences? I currently have the HD650 v1 and would like to move up. Having a hard time deciding on what to move to, but the HE-6 are a strong candidate.

Thanks.


----------



## baronbeehive

karllin said:


> I have read some say the MK vi+ will drive he-6. Can anyone who uses the HE-6 with this amp give their experiences? I currently have the HD650 v1 and would like to move up. Having a hard time deciding on what to move to, but the HE-6 are a strong candidate.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 That would be my choice of headphone too if I could afford it but I'm sure you realise that the sound signature of the HE-6 is completely different to the HD650 being much more up front and mid range focussed, whereas the Sens are quite laid back sounding.


----------



## zenpunk

The LD and HE-6 is a wonderful combo.


----------



## Arminius

Are these Little Dots a good combo with LCD3? I'm thinking about to buy a tube amp for my Audeze.


----------



## Wil

To bump up this thread, does anyone have experience wiht the MKVI or MKVIII powering a HD800?

 Granted i know the MKVI is more powerful than the MKVIII (Apparently at the expense of refinement), but which is more suited for the HD800?

 ( I plan to run it balanced from my TEAC UD501 and single ended [for now] to my HD800)


----------



## alota

wil said:


> To bump up this thread, does anyone have experience wiht the MKVI or MKVIII powering a HD800?
> 
> Granted i know the MKVI is more powerful than the MKVIII (Apparently at the expense of refinement), but which is more suited for the HD800?
> 
> ( I plan to run it balanced from my TEAC UD501 and single ended [for now] to my HD800)


 
 i had the MKVI+HD800.
 i liked this combo with jazz


----------



## Wil

Hi alota..
  
 Still torn betwee the MKVI and MKVIII....
  
 If only i could listen to both locally!


----------



## alota

wil said:


> Hi alota..
> 
> Still torn betwee the MKVI and MKVIII....
> 
> If only i could listen to both locally!


 
 i don´t know the MKVIII


----------



## Androb

arminius said:


> Are these Little Dots a good combo with LCD3? I'm thinking about to buy a tube amp for my Audeze.



Hey! I'm curious about this aswell. I'm getting the lcd-3 + an amplifier for it. I'm torn between the little dot mk viii/vi+ or the wa22. Does anyone know which one of the amps that Will be the best match for it? I'm going balanced, With an Hegel hd20 as truly balanced source. Also is the little dots truly balanced?


----------



## nigeljames

I read that someone preferred the MKVI+ to the Woo5 with the LCD3's. Unfortunately can't remember who.


----------



## Makiah S

who was the cat runnin a fully balanced w1000x ... he should have impressions posted by now


----------



## john57

androb said:


> Hey! I'm curious about this aswell. I'm getting the lcd-3 + an amplifier for it. I'm torn between the little dot mk viii/vi+ or the wa22. Does anyone know which one of the amps that Will be the best match for it? I'm going balanced, With an Hegel hd20 as truly balanced source. Also is the little dots truly balanced?


 

 Yes, both  the Little Dot MkVIII and MkVI+ are truly balanced.


----------



## Androb

Oh nice! Is there any difference on 3 pin xlr output and the 4 pin xlr output?
 Cheers for the response!


----------



## alota

androb said:


> Oh nice! Is there any difference on 3 pin xlr output and the 4 pin xlr output?
> Cheers for the response!


 
 yes, the 4 pin is more practical
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 but with the 3 pin you can choose more expensive connectors


----------



## Androb

Ah well not an major difference to the sound than I guess


----------



## alota

androb said:


> Ah well not an major difference to the sound than I guess


 
 none with the same quality of connector(in this case neutrik)


----------



## Makiah S

Actually don't the dual 3pins have grounds and the 4 pin does not? Although there could be a ground worked into the design of a 4pin amp


----------



## alota

mshenay said:


> Actually don't the dual 3pins have grounds and the 4 pin does not? Although there could be a ground worked into the design of a 4pin amp


 
 no. in the dual 3 pin you have two wires for each connector(+ and -)
 in every case, the 4 pin has one pin for the ground in the upper side


----------



## rosgr63

I am very impressed Aldo!


----------



## john57

Here is a picture of my LD VI+ before I molded it and replaced the fans.
 You would notice that on the 3-pin XLR inputs there are actually four connections. The 3-pin XLR also have a chassis tab which is also connected to the metal outer part of the xlr on the outside. If you look closely there is a jumper wire connecting pin1 (cable shield) to the XLR chassis tab. This might  mean that the chassis ground and the AC ground are at the same potential as it should be. The next time I take my LD apart when I feel the need to do that I will confirm that.  Normally pin 1 is not used in a balanced inputs but since there is single ended inputs available on the amp as shown on the far left of the picture with the yellow, blue and black wires. You have to have a common ground in order for the single ended inputs to work. If someone is using a RCA to XLR cable converter on the inputs you would then have to use pin 1  as a common ground in order for this to work. If someone is just using balanced source XLR inputs just pin 2 and pin 3 are used.   Since LD is using shield cables from the inputs to the four ganged volume pot on the front the cable shield had to be connected to ground to help with induced noise issues. In the middle of the picture with the little red circle on the right is the ¼ jack output. According to the LD manual the front 4-pin XLR it said this:
_1.L+_
_2.L-_
_3.R+_
_4.R-_
_Note: None of the pins should be connected to the shield/sleeve/chassis ground as the Little Dot MK VI+_
_does not support this type of grounding. Please make sure you or your cable builder knows this as_
_otherwise you may have noise issues and/or other misbehavior!_
  
 I noticed and others have stated that the 4-pin XLR output on the LD is stronger than using the ¼ jack at the back. I have headphones that can be used as balanced or single ended and this seems to be the case.


----------



## Wil

Finally got my Little dot MKVIII
  
 Getting back my reterminated (Balanced) HD800 cables this afternoon.
  
 Should be good!


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> I am very impressed Aldo!


 
 for what?


----------



## alota

john57 said:


> Here is a picture of my LD VI+ before I molded it and replaced the fans.
> You would notice that on the 3-pin XLR inputs there are actually four connections. The 3-pin XLR also have a chassis tab which is also connected to the metal outer part of the xlr on the outside. If you look closely there is a jumper wire connecting pin1 (cable shield) to the XLR chassis tab. This might  mean that the chassis ground and the AC ground are at the same potential as it should be. The next time I take my LD apart when I feel the need to do that I will confirm that.  Normally pin 1 is not used in a balanced inputs but since there is single ended inputs available on the amp as shown on the far left of the picture with the yellow, blue and black wires. You have to have a common ground in order for the single ended inputs to work. If someone is using a RCA to XLR cable converter on the inputs you would then have to use pin 1  as a common ground in order for this to work. If someone is just using balanced source XLR inputs just pin 2 and pin 3 are used.   Since LD is using shield cables from the inputs to the four ganged volume pot on the front the cable shield had to be connected to ground to help with induced noise issues. In the middle of the picture with the little red circle on the right is the ¼ jack output. According to the LD manual the front 4-pin XLR it said this:
> _1.L+_
> _2.L-_
> ...


 
 when i used my headphones rewired with moonaudio(black or blue dragon), this cable has 4 wires more one ground.
 i tried with only the 4 wires and 4 wires more the ground soldered in the 5th pin of the 4pin neutrik.
 no problem at all because the headphones don´t have the ground.
 the only headphone(that i know) that has the gorund soldered in the driver is the beyer T1


----------



## Makiah S

alota said:


> when i used my headphones rewired with moonaudio(black or blue dragon), this cable has 4 wires more one ground.
> i tried with only the 4 wires and 4 wires more the ground soldered in the 5th pin of the 4pin neutrik.
> no problem at all because the headphones don´t have the ground.
> the only headphone(that i know) that has the gorund soldered in the driver is the beyer T1


 
 That's good to know about the T1


----------



## rosgr63

alota said:


> for what?


 
  
 Your knowledge in electronics.
  
 I think you had a good teacher, better than mine..............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 John I have noticed the same between XLR and 1/4" outputs in other amps.


----------



## alota

rosgr63 said:


> Your knowledge in electronics.
> 
> I think you had a good teacher, better than mine..............


 
 this is a joke for my knowledge and for THE TEACHER!!!!


----------



## alota

mshenay said:


> That's good to know about the T1


 
 yes, but in the end, will exist for some tangible benefit????


----------



## john57

rosgr63 said:


> John I have noticed the same between XLR and 1/4" outputs in other amps.


 
 Yes and not always. The Woo WA22 and possibility the Cavalli Liquid Glass the 1/4 and the XLR are some of the exceptions power wise.


----------



## G600

Zenpunk's MK VI+ arrived at home.
 I'm very excited to test this unit, but still waiting for my cans to arrive.
  
 Beside that, what do you guys use to upgrade the internal audio path ?
 Copper or silver plated copper, PTFE coated ? And which section ?


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Zenpunk's MK VI+ arrived at home.
> I'm very excited to test this unit, but still waiting for my cans to arrive.
> 
> Beside that, what do you guys use to upgrade the internal audio path ?
> Copper or silver plated copper, PTFE coated ? And which section ?


 
  
 I personally don't recommend touching any of the wiring unless you have some knowledge on amp circuits and how it works and know what the output stage or in-line signal path is in the VI+.
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong zenpunks VI+ has a burnt resistor? Regardless of whether or not it is within tolerance of it's rated resistance I'd replace it as burnt resistors indicate overcurrent or overvoltage, poor or inadequate cooling or under rated resistor. Replace with a 2-5watt ceramic metal film resistor or a good carbon film such as Mills or Kiwame.


----------



## G600

Yes there is a heated resistor. I've measured it and it is still rating 328 Ohm. But I'm about to buy 5W Kiwame and replace them -all of them ?- (on recent MK VI production, there are no more of this type of blue resistor).
  
 For the wiring job, I'm not an audio expert, but I think I'm rigorous enough to replace carefully one cable after another (I'm not re-cabling all the audio path, just replacing PCB-connectors connections).
 Maybe I'm wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 As some of you noticed, wire solderings are looking very poor, and LD obviously made economy on wires.
  
 And as long as I'm heating my soldering iron, why not replacing coupling caps with high end neutral ones ?


----------



## zenpunk

Hi JD,
 you might have already come across the discussion about upgrading caps earlier in this thread but here is the link just in case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/345#post_8782348


----------



## G600

zenpunk said:


> Hi JD,
> you might have already come across the discussion about upgrading caps earlier in this thread but here is the link just in case
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, indeed !
 I'm guilty of having read the whole thread


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Yes there is a heated resistor. I've measured it and it is still rating 328 Ohm. But I'm about to buy 5W Kiwame and replace them -all of them ?- (on recent MK VI production, there are no more of this type of blue resistor).
> 
> For the wiring job, I'm not an audio expert, but I think I'm rigorous enough to replace carefully one cable after another (I'm not re-cabling all the audio path, just replacing PCB-connectors connections).
> Maybe I'm wrong
> ...


 
 If you can't find 328ohm resistors then you can use some in series to add it to the right value.
  
 Honestly from my own experiences as I have modded and built countless of integrated tube amplifiers, replacing the filter, audio signal caps to good coupling grade caps provide the most sonic improvements to sound. Why do you think $5000 or most $15000 tube amps that are point to point based don't use fancy grade cabling/wiring but mill-spec 600/1000V rated teflon wiring? Replace the Wima's to PIO or better MKP, V-Cap's are about as good as you can get but there supreme line is worth more than the amplifier itself. I'd also change out the crappy motorised ALPS pot to a good quality balanced stepper.


----------



## G600

I meant the heated resistor still measures 328 Ohm, just as the other in the amp. By reading the color chart, they are 330 Ohm 5W resistor, no big deal to find those http://www.audiophonics.fr/kiwame-resistance-film-carbone-haut-gamme-330-ohms-p-6731.html
  
 I'm not sure I follow you on the rest. You mean replacing coupling caps is a better idea than replacing cables ?
 I'm everything but a cable fanatic, but I don't think the hair-thick chinese spec cables are decent ones. I tried to unsolder and resolder one of them, to see what's inside : you have sponge-like soldering metal and the cable is full of plastic.
  
 Fot the attenuator, I have no knowledge about that. If you have something in mind, I'm listening carefully.
  
 But once more I may be wrong, and it's my placebo effect


----------



## DefQon

Replace the mkp caps with better pio coupling caps. How much are u willing to spend on upgrades/mods?


----------



## G600

I d'ont know precisely. I think i'll start upgrading in a few weeks, maybe step by step, starting with coupling caps (maybe Jantzen or Mundorf Silver/Oil), depending on my budget. I just saw the price of quad attenuators, and cought a wallet-ache http://www.goldpt.com/prices.html
  
 On the wire side, if I change all the 330Ohm/5W resistor, there are some of them on the back of the pcb. So if I change them all, and/or change the wires, it's a better idea to do this in the same time...
  
 My goal is to fulfil the potential of this amp, BUT keep the circuits neutral to stay able to catch the differences between tubes.


----------



## Makiah S

eww I was thinking about getting one but it's really... not that great >.> now If I get one I'll always wondered what a modded LK MK vi+ should sound like :[


----------



## G600

mshenay said:


> eww I was thinking about getting one but it's really... not that great >.> now If I get one I'll always wondered what a modded LK MK vi+ should sound like :[


 
 No, don't change your mind !
 Tweaks and upgrades are available everywhere, and not only for the best. In French we have an idiom that says "the better is the good's enemy"
 This amp is nonetheless wonderful, and a deserves your attention.
  
 I'm just a weird guy who wants to personnalise everything. Buy it, have your butt kicked right out of the box, and start some tube rolling.
 And don't get yourself catched by SS amps, they are the easy way...


----------



## john57

I see that the resistor color code is then orange, orange, black and black for the 330 5 watt resistors. They seem to be carbon film type. I would think that changing the signal coupling caps for the two driver tubes would make the most difference in SQ change. I would have to figure out which caps would make the best difference in SQ for my needs.  I would have to see how much work it would take just to remove the one big PCB board out of the LD to work on it. Do to the amount of work it takes I would not like to repeat that work again. Woo amps are much easier to work on can be a consideration if you like to make changes with the amps. Changing the four gang pot is not the cheapest thing to replace and I would have to hard wire the connections.  The LD VI+ is going to take more labor time to work on it but maybe you like to do that. I remember as a kid it took me a bit of three months to build a stereo receiver and I had to do some troubleshooting afterwards to get everything working correctly. After I made all the changes to the LD I would like to double check the DC offset trimmer pots to make sure that the factory calibration is right on as close to zero as possible. 
  
 The LD VI+ is one of the greatest value in a balanced tube amp but not the easiest to make hardware changes on it.


----------



## Makiah S

g600 said:


> No, don't change your mind !
> Tweaks and upgrades are available everywhere, and not only for the best. In French we have an idiom that says "the better is the good's enemy"
> This amp is nonetheless wonderful, and a deserves your attention.
> 
> ...


 
 Clever French Saying... and who knows I might one day buy mine then get it modded to hell and back by some one xD


----------



## alota

john57 said:


> The LD VI+ is one of the greatest value in a balanced tube amp but not the easiest to make hardware changes on it.


 
 true for the value and for the changes.
 the interior is too small.
 for me the global quality is good(capacitors, resistors, etc.)but i don´t like the pot.
 i tried to put one dact: too long


----------



## DefQon

Yeah I second that John these not so expensive amps do fall in compromising some aspects and I for one hate troubleshooting double sided pcb tube amps especially when the designer has chosen to skimp out on terminal blocks.


----------



## Makiah S

defqon said:


> Yeah I second that John these not so expensive amps do fall in compromising some aspects and I for one hate troubleshooting double sided pcb tube amps especially when the designer has chosen to skimp out on terminal blocks.


 
 I might break down and buy a Vali ... then wait for Schiits Balanced Tube offerings maybe... I already have chinnese company I've sworn loyality to! 
  
 Although... until I can hear one, I might say otherwise


----------



## Androb

Ok im buying the Little dot mkVI+ in 1 or 2 months  Anyone knows any nice places to order tubes from? (Would like from any european country, preferably Sweden )


----------



## G600

DefQon, I've read about NOS Russian PIO caps, what is your experience with them ?


----------



## 2K9R56S

Got the 1000s back in.  They sound amazing with the MKVI+.  With the MKVI+ on low gain, 70 is about the most I can handle with the 1000s, compared to 90-95 with the HD650s.  Glad to be rid of the unruly stock cable too.
  
 Here's some pictures they e-mailed before sending it back.


----------



## baronbeehive

They look great. AT do a lovely wood finish and the mid range on them is second to none. I was going to have my AT's recabled before finally settling on the HE-500's instead.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> Got the 1000s back in.  They sound amazing with the MKVI+.  With the MKVI+ on low gain, 70 is about the most I can handle with the 1000s, compared to 90-95 with the HD650s.  Glad to be rid of the unruly stock cable too.
> 
> Here's some pictures they e-mailed before sending it back.


 
 TELL US MORE <3


----------



## che15

I have been thinking about getting my w3000 recabled to balance but kind of nervous . They sound great with my peak - volcano , but I want to be able to listen to them on my MKVI+ also. My single ended output on the VI+ is really noisy and I don't want to send it to china again. Anyone has any idea what could be wrong and who could fix it for me? It makes some sore if interference noise . Like an antenna picking up interference .
Thanks


----------



## john57

What type of noise are you getting? Hum,Buzz, hiss, static, pops or clicks. How is everything connected? One channel or both?


----------



## che15

It is a buzzing sound, it is connected with just balanced cables, do I need to connect it with RCAs too? 
John , have u modded yours at all?


----------



## G600

It's a common weak of this amp.
 There is always a hum (AFAIK...) on the SE output, it can be very low on low gain, or higher if you put the gain on high (useless most of the time).
 Let's have a balanced connector for your cans !


----------



## Makiah S

g600 said:


> It's a common weak of this amp.
> There is always a hum (AFAIK...) on the SE output, it can be very low on low gain, or higher if you put the gain on high (useless most of the time).
> Let's have a balanced connector for your cans !


 
 Happy to know the SE sucks xD more reason to balance all my headphones before I get this amp ;3


----------



## 2K9R56S

che15 said:


> I have been thinking about getting my w3000 recabled to balance but kind of nervous . They sound great with my peak - volcano , but I want to be able to listen to them on my MKVI+ also. My single ended output on the VI+ is really noisy and I don't want to send it to china again. Anyone has any idea what could be wrong and who could fix it for me? It makes some sore if interference noise . Like an antenna picking up interference .
> Thanks


 
  
 Is this the original layout with the SE output in the back, or the new one with the SE output in the front?


----------



## Androb

2k9r56s said:


> Is this the original layout with the SE output in the back, or the new one with the SE output in the front?


 
 I thought that it's still in the back? ;p Atleast when I check the homepage it is. Would be awesome in the front tho...


----------



## che15

It is on the back of the amp


----------



## che15

2k9r56s said:


> Is this the original layout with the SE output in the back, or the new one with the SE output in the front?



On the back


----------



## G600

Even if it didnt' sucked, it can't compete the balanced out on both quality and sound level...
  
 The SE output is in the front since some months, this summer I think. Before that it has always been on the back.


----------



## Androb

Nice! Saving some money for this so that is good news for me  Really wanted SE output in the front.


----------



## G600

androb said:


> Nice! Saving some money for this so that is good news for me  Really wanted SE output in the front.


 
 Why would you buy a balanced amp to use SE output ?
 If you want to stay SE, save money on DAC, balanced connectors and tubes... Buy something unbalanced !


----------



## Androb

g600 said:


> Why would you buy a balanced amp to use SE output ?
> If you want to stay SE, save money on DAC, balanced connectors and tubes... Buy something unbalanced !


 
 Main purpose is balanced, but hey, who says you can't use SE? 
 I just like the option that it's there, I aint going to convert all my headphones to balanced so, the SE will be used with some phones. And having that SE output in the back seems a bit annoying.


----------



## G600

Ok. As long as SE output is a tad noisy, being at the back may prevent you from using it 
  
 But once more I see new MK VI+ with front SE output. If nobody confirms this, ask David about that !
 You can see the front SE output here http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2524&start=0


----------



## Androb

I don't have much room so yea, it's not very good for me. And I got noisy amp atm, but I forget about it while listening to music.

And I did ask David a few min ago about it, since I was already going to ask about some other stuff. Waiting for a reply


----------



## john57

che15 said:


> It is a buzzing sound, it is connected with just balanced cables, do I need to connect it with RCAs too?
> John , have u modded yours at all?


 

 When you disconnect the inputs like your balanced cables on your LD does it still buzz on both channels? You can try just the single ended inputs but do not have both inputs connected. In order to get maximum quality and power on the LD you have to use the balanced outputs, more so on the outputs vs the inputs. Tube amps like the transformer coupled Woo amp WA22 requires that the inputs needs to be balanced for maximum SQ but the single end and balanced outputs are electrically exactly the same as far the amp is concerned.  I did have some tubes that had a small buzz and that was due to AC being used for the tube heater filament. More so for the driver tubes. I am using 7F7 tubes with adapters that are low noise and good SQ. I did re-solder the connections and replaced the fans with Enermax but it is not the only replacement fan to use.


----------



## G600

Which 7N7 or 7F7 have you been rolling john57 ?
 I'm still thinking of making some tube stock, but not willing to pay the premium prices for sought ones...
 I've been reading black square plate tall bottle 7N7 sound the best.
  
 And what about 6F8G ?


----------



## john57

I have tried many tubes and do not want the pay the premium prices. Yes I have some 6F8G tubes and they vary quite a bit in SQ and noise levels. I have good success with the JAN RCA 6C8-G tubes which has a bit more gain than the 6F8G and uses the same adapters. Still using the Bendix slotted output tubes.
  
 P.S. Using Raytheon 7F7 tubes from Snowthistle Electronics not sure if he has any more.


----------



## 2K9R56S

g600 said:


> Ok. As long as SE output is a tad noisy, being at the back may prevent you from using it
> 
> But once more I see new MK VI+ with front SE output. If nobody confirms this, ask David about that !
> You can see the front SE output here http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2524&start=0


 
  
  
 I bought mine in September of this year.  It has the SE output on the front.  The pictures on the LD website are of the original MKVI+.


----------



## Makiah S

2k9r56s said:


> I bought mine in September of this year.  It has the SE output on the front.  The pictures on the LD website are of the original MKVI+.


 
 Good to know, 
  
 that said. Once again I feel my w1000x needs a good tube. Chances are I'll get this eventually... but for now going to try the Schiit Vali while my w1000x is still SE :3.
  
 After that, I'm off to get my Hm801 Repaired then I want to grab an RSA Sr71B... after those two purchases THEN I'll be ready to grab a balanced tube


----------



## soundandwave

Hi all, I just brought a MK6+  .  what tube will you guys recommend for listen to vocal , jazz or  pop??  I am a newbi


----------



## G600

soundandwave said:


> Hi all, I just brought a MK6+  .  what tube will you guys recommend for listen to vocal , jazz or  pop??  I am a newbi


 
 Start burning the provided tubes, they are not that bad, and after that buy yourself a quad of power tubes, for example Sovtek or RCA 6AS7G (nice coke bottle).
 After that, you are entering a world of pain by rolling driver tubes...


----------



## Contrails

What's this amp like to use as a preamp?
  
 Also, what driver tubes does everyone recommend to have a clear but very smooth liquid type sound to go with stock Power tubes and maybe 7236s and fully balanced config. with he500 and M-DAC.


----------



## baronbeehive

The mkvi+ is great as a preamp because it gives much of its superb SQ into the mix. I was using it in a previous setup but watch out that you don't use it as a pre to a direct coupled power amp because any problem with a tube could cause damage to your power amp.
  
 Re: driver tubes, I've said it once and I'll say it again and again, you can't beat Tungsol 6sl7 or 6sn7 round black plate's for smooth, liquid sound as has been said many times in this thread, in fact I'm repeating myself from a couple of posts previously. I also have the HE-500's and am completely happy with the sound. Of course the HE-6's wouldn't go amiss at some point, but the price differential is huge!
  
 Re the SE output, if you have already sensitive cans such as Audio Technica's they will buzz as has been said previously in this thread so in that case you will need to use balanced outputs.


----------



## baronbeehive

.......... also the Raytheon 7F7's are incredible value tubes. They are very clear and give a live concert type sound in contrast to something smoother like Tungsols.


----------



## Makiah S

baronbeehive said:


> .......... also the Raytheon 7F7's are incredible value tubes. They are very clear and give a live concert type sound in contrast to something smoother like Tungsols.


 
 Good to know, I want a very Solid State Tube sound for my Audio TEchnica Headphone lol


----------



## baronbeehive

mshenay said:


> Good to know, I want a very Solid State Tube sound for my Audio TEchnica Headphone lol


 
  For SS sound another one to consider would be any Sylvania 6SN7 eg GTA, GTB, VT231, although I've heard some described as lush, that is the last thing I would describe the ones I've heard which I would say are dryer and sparklier than most other tubes.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks for your reply Baronbeehive. Do you think the 6su7 would fit in the littledot 6? I have been reading good reviews of TS6su7gt.


----------



## baronbeehive

contrails said:


> Thanks for your reply Baronbeehive. Do you think the 6su7 would fit in the littledot 6? I have been reading good reviews of TS6su7gt.


 
  
 Yes they are simply military versions of the 6SL7 with factory matched triodes. I had these at one time but could not detect any sonic differences between them and the 6SL7's so that's what I use now because I couldn't justify the high price of the 6SU7's.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks again, also on the power tubes, I have a quad set matched of 7236s but if I were to lose a tube, can I put another tube in that is closely matched or do they all have to matched exactly?


----------



## john57

Closely matched is okay as long the meter shows the same. Exact match is not possible since the tester does not know the exact operating points of the amp. I had power tubes that tested okay but did not work in the amp.


----------



## G600

Hum, I was thinking about graphite, is there any 6336A owner here ?
 I don't think it's safe to plug a quad of those, but anyway...


----------



## ozaudios

My Little dot MK VI+ with Svetlana 6N5S power tubes (1967) and Shuguang 50 years Treasures CV181-Z driver tubes (needed socket savers to enable tubes to fit as the aluminium rings have a smaller inner diameter than the tube base outer diameter)


----------



## DefQon

Me thinks the SE buzz/hum is to do with a grounding issue on the circuit of the way it's designed (circuit/pcb ground is different to chassis/rca ground). I had some humming issues on SE before my unit was modded and inspected by a local tube amp builder, amp came back and the noise was gone. It's been over a year and I haven't used the amp but it's in pieces so I dunno. Anybody want VI+ scraps for $200? lol


----------



## G600

I'm stil searching coupling caps for my VI+, and don't know what to choose...
 How did you make your choice people ?
  
 I'm skeptical about russian PIO, because I don't know what I'm buying... they can be good or bad, or very different from one to another.
 Mundorfs must be a good choice, the Supreme Silver in oil seems to be neutral and dynamic, but they are costly...
 I'm thinking about the high rated Audyn True Copper, they are affordable, and despite a thin bass highlight they may be a good choice for such an amp...?
  
 All advices and thoughts are welcomed. Maye I'l post in the capacitor orgy thread.


----------



## DefQon

One can never go wrong with Russian pio's, they sound good and are cheap. Do forget some esoteric coupling caps have a bigger affect in crossover applications rather than in the coupling position in the amp.

If you don't want to spend hundreds on upper end V-Cap, Duelands and Mundorfs, look at the Obigilito Gold series, Jensens, Jantzen and the cheap but good Auricaps.


----------



## ozaudios

I bought 4 of the Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Oil capacitors and sent them to Littledot, had them installed in my amplifier when it was built. I am VERY happy with the result. But I can't make a comparison with the standard capacitors because I have never heard what they sound like.


----------



## DefQon

There not bad. 1uf will give more bass.


----------



## zenpunk

ozaudios said:


> I bought 4 of the Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Oil capacitors and sent them to Littledot, had them installed in my amplifier when it was built. I am VERY happy with the result. But I can't make a comparison with the standard capacitors because I have never heard what they sound like.


 
 How did they managed to fit those inside? did they remove the fans? 
 I would love to see a picture of the inside.


----------



## G600

defqon said:


> There not bad. 1uf will give more bass.


 
 Ouch, higher capacity = higher price...
 Is there an explanation why to pick 1uF ? Any value between  .22 and 1uF is good, and higher = better ?


----------



## DefQon

Generally in dc coupling situations right after the signal path a bigger micro farad coupling gives more bass. The lower the rating i.e less than 0.1uf you'd get more clarity with vocals but also brighter sounding ambient. You can't exactly drop the biggest rating cap as well.

Yes with polypropylene caps i.e MKP's, PIO's etc they get expensive fast as you increase the rating as does its size.


----------



## zenpunk

Those are coupling caps for the driver tubes. There is no capacitors in the signal path, that's the beauty of the design.


----------



## G600

OK DefQon, so as usual, it's a question of balance.


----------



## DefQon

zenpunk said:


> Those are coupling caps for the driver tubes. There is no capacitors in the signal path, that's the beauty of the design.


 
 Driver tubes or not they still affect the sound more or less as the end application is still the same and the ground coupling rule still applies, if it were for AC coupling then you would not get any difference in the sound department.
  
 If there were no given differences in changing coupling caps David would be smart enough to not include this as an upgrade option. He knows these circuits better than any of us here unless you get another engineer to verify the circuit, the schematics can be improved is what I've been told when I had the hum on mine removed on SE operations.


----------



## zenpunk

I agree but the effect is likely to be very subtle and I am not convinced changing their value would affect bass as they are not in the signal path. Better caps would likely provide better transients and a smoother sound.


----------



## G600

What's the purpose of adding a small cap parallel to the main one ?


----------



## G600

I've selected some contenders, need to check if they fit the case or not... and thus which value to choose.
 I'm putting the order soon !


----------



## Androb

Just ordered the MKVI+ and payed for it now  Looking forward to its arrival!!


----------



## seaice

By the way, what is up with the old www.littledot.net ? Can you reach their web?


----------



## Androb

No the page is down but will come up again later on this week


----------



## ozaudios

zenpunk said:


> How did they managed to fit those inside? did they remove the fans?
> I would love to see a picture of the inside.


 
 Yes, the fans were not fitted to my amplifier, not enough room.
  


 I am using an external fan mounted in the shelf under the amplifier, so I can run a larger fan and the power supply for the fan is not part of the amplifier circuit, so it eliminates electrical noise from the fan.


----------



## zenpunk

Thanks. Looks impressive. I found the amp run a lot cooler when using 5998 or 7332 tubes so fans are redundant.


----------



## Rayzilla

alota said:


> i used mine from grado to senn hd-650 and hd-800


 
 Anyone have any experience using the MK VIII SE with the HD800 (and also Grado RS2, Ultrasone Pro900 or Ed8)?
  
 I found this on ebay and it appears that they a located here in Hong Kong. I am thinking about checking to see if they allow local pick up.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Dot-MK-VIII-SE-MK-8-SE-Balanced-Headphone-Amplifier-/120917210191?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item1c273a344f#shpCntId


----------



## Karllin

I have finally returned to Shanghai with my new tubes I bought in the USA. Sound is amazing. Volume is higher, wider more detailed soundstage, etc... If you are using stock tubes, please change ASAP! 

One NOOB question... With the old tubes, the left and right meters were between 60-70 mA, with the new tubes they are both at 35 mA. Is this just dependent on the tubes I used? Why the lower number equals louder sound?

By the way I am using two Tung-Sol 6SU7GTY and four Western Electric 421A tubes now.

Regards,

Karl


----------



## rattesp

Yes it's normal. With the Sylvania 7236 the meters were at around 40.


----------



## Karllin

Thank you Rattesp. I wanted to make sure the range was normal. I don't want to do anything to shorten the life of these boys. Again, I can't stress enough to everyone how worthwhile it is to get away from the stock tubes that Little Dot sends with the Mark VI+. I needed to go to over the 3pm position with the original tubes and the HD800, now 12 o'clock is more than enough. This is a great amp with the right tubes. Drives the HD800 on low gain with no effort.


----------



## baronbeehive

Good to know, I'm somewhat envious of those Western Electric's though!!


----------



## G600

baronbeehive said:


> Good to know, I'm somewhat envious of those Western Electric's though!!


 
 You don't say !!


----------



## Karllin

Ii got the 421A based on a lot of reading here on Head-Fi. Seemed that several posters with zillions of posts said they would be about the best sounding tubes for this Amp. I guess I decided to skip the testing of many tubes myself and took advantage of their experience. I live in China and just happened to be headed back to the USA for the holidays, so I decided to get the 421A while I had the chance. They are very hard to find in Asia without paying a fortune and risking getting poor quality tubes. I was lucky to find a perfectly matched quad from a generous guy in the States. He cared more about sharing the sound than making huge $$$, so sold me the matched quad for a very low price. 

Now I just have to enjoy them while they last. When they blow, I doubt I will find another set near the same price.


----------



## ozaudios

I use my windows 7 PC to run FOOBAR-2000, streaming sky fm…. through a WIREWORLD STARLIGHT USB cable, into a MUSICAL FIDELITY V-LINK 192(USB to SPDIF converter), through an AUDIOQUEST VDM-XR 75OHM digital RCA cable, into the LITTLE DOT DAC I, through a pair of VAN-DEN HULL ‘THE D 102 III’ 3 pin XLR interconnect cables, into the LITTLE DOT MK VI+ (with MUNDORF SUPREME SILVER/GOLD/OIL coupling capacitors and TOXIC CABLES SILVER POISON audio wire in the audio path) through a 4 pin XLR NEUTRIX plug to the TOXIC CABLES SILVER POISON balanced headphone cable and finally into the SENNHEISER HD-650 headphones… and I love the set-up ( I am using the SVETLANA 6N5S power tubes and SHUGUANG 50 YEARS TREASURE CV181-Z driver tubes ). Using this set-up with various different tubes I find the volume is comfortable at about 2 or 3 on the marked volume scale (9 o’clock to 10 o’clock on the clock face scale) and the volume has never been set above 4 ( 11 o’clock ). The 2 gauges on the front of the amplifier have always read about 80mA, with many different tubes rolled through the amp, always about the same reading. I expect that the volume level is affected by a number of different factors (tubes, cables and other accessories in the set-up), and the readings on the mA gauges are also affected in a similar way, but I can report that my set-up delivers ample amounts of volume with 300 Ohm Sennheiser HD-650 Headphones (even with the factory tubes). But I would LOVE to get some of the Western Electric 421A tubes to try


----------



## Karllin

@ozaudios,

With those upgrades and cables, I bet the amp is amazing. Your volume level sounds right for the HD650. I bet you could easily drive the HE-6 and LCD-3 with the CAP upgrades you have. I have an itch to do the same, but guess I am happy enough for now. 

I think my next addition will be a good source. Has anyone used the OPPO BDP-103 or 105 with the MK vi+? I have the little dot DAC-3, so I am hesitating on buying the 105, since my DAC will become irrelevant. Guess I could sell it.

The endless urge to upgrade..."the grass is always greener..." Must be the most accurate saying in history.


----------



## ozaudios

Yeah, 'The endless urge to upgrade..."the grass is always greener..." Must be the most accurate saying in history. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





'.
  
 ...... I have an Icon Audio PS1 all valve phono-stage on the way from the U.K. should be here in a few weeks, I feel an urge to listen to vinyl through the Little Dot headphone set-up, and I love valves (that's what the English and Aussies call tubes) so I decided to get a good quality hand made point to point wired phono-stage so as to get the best sound. I will give you an up-date to let you know how vinyl sounds through the Little Dot MK VI+, it has to run through the single ended un-balanced input, so it will be interesting to hear if the sound quality is any worse than the balanced input with digital audio.


----------



## Karllin

Funny. I spent several days when I was back home last month looking at turntables. I was leaning towards an old technics 1200 mk2, Seems the dj's are constantly placing them on Craigslist. Gave up when I realized it weighs over 35 lbs. I had way too much to carry back, already. 

I will be very interested in how that phono stage sounds, since I am definitely looking at getting into vinyl. 

Anyone on vinyl with the MK vi+ have any suggestions for equipment? Is their such a thing as a phono stage with XLR balanced outs? Or is that possible?


----------



## Androb

I think there are balanced phono stages yes. I think there even is some turntables with balanced cables aswell.

Edit : I found it. Google Pro-ject phono box RS. It is fully balanced with support for both mm and mc pickups


----------



## ozaudios

Wow that Pro-ject phono box RS is a very nice phono stage, and I just read some good reviews. I have a Pro-ject turntable, and I did look at the Pro-ject Tube Box ( tube phono stage) some months ago. This Phono Box RS was not for sale then. It is half the price of the Icon Audio PS1 phono stage I have just bought, and it is fully balanced with XLR and RCA in and out(Icon Audio PS1 is RCA only) , but it is transistor technology, and I especially wanted an all valve(tube) phono stage as the analogue vinyl sound and the valves just go so well together. (I bought the signature edition with Jensen PAPER AND OIL CAPACITORS  https://audio.jensencapacitors.com/products/capalutube/ag-aglead/)
  
 I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has used the phono box RS, or any other good quality phono stages, especially if used with the Little Dot MK VI+.


----------



## Androb

Yea I am quite interested in this phono box rs. After I got my MKVI+ now this or next month, and I have decided what headphones im getting, im going to save up for a vinyl rig aswell. Atleast that's something I want to do. I would get the Pro-ject Debut carbon esprit and this balanced phono box. 
  
 Hope your phono stage you bought sounds good tho. But you aren't worry you will get too much "tube" sound then with that stage and the mkvi+ together? Give some impressions anyway later  Allways wanted to test my head station with vinyl but haven't had the opportunity ^^


----------



## ozaudios

OK, I am not worried about getting too much tube sound from the Icon Audio PS1 and the Little Dot MK VI+ together, both units are very low distortion, very clean sound, I think they will be a good match, but yes it is a bit of a gamble with audio equipment.....will a particular mix of equipment have good results (GOOD SYNERGY).
  
 I bought the Pro-ject Debut Carbon, then fitted a perspex platter..... you should be happy with the Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit. I have run it through a cheap transistor phono stage into the Little Dot (both MK VI+ and the I+) but the cheap transistor phono stage is just too clinical and sterile for my taste, I want some raw electric life-like quality that is missing from the cheap phono stage (Rega Fono Mini A2D).


----------



## Androb

ozaudios said:


> OK, I am not worried about getting too much tube sound from the Icon Audio PS1 and the Little Dot MK VI+ together, both units are very low distortion, very clean sound, I think they will be a good match, but yes it is a bit of a gamble with audio equipment.....will a particular mix of equipment have good results (GOOD SYNERGY).
> 
> I bought the Pro-ject Debut Carbon, then fitted a perspex platter..... you should be happy with the Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit. I have run it through a cheap transistor phono stage into the Little Dot (both MK VI+ and the I+) but the cheap transistor phono stage is just too clinical and sterile for my taste, I want some raw electric life-like quality that is missing from the cheap phono stage (Rega Fono Mini A2D).



Ah cool  I love the looks of the pro-ject TT


----------



## Androb

Just got my MKVI+ 
 Shame I have to run it unbalanced atm tho,ain't recieved my cardas xlr cables yet  Expected to get them before haha. Oh well, it will be in great company with my Hegel in balanced mode and the LCD-3 im ordering this or next month ))))


----------



## ozaudios

Glad to see you got your MK VI+, such a good amplifier, the first few days are so exciting just trying it out, burning it in a bit and getting use to the sound. Have you found that new sounds can be heard in music you know well? Maybe an extra guitar, or extra drums? I found a lot of missing details that I never knew about were suddenly quiet noticeable when first using the Little Dot MK VI+.
  
 I bought the Little Dot DAC I to use with my MK VI+, it works well, good synergy. I got it before the MK VI+ and I heard extra details when using the DAC I with the MK I+, then after getting the MK VI+ even more details appeared. The DAC I is good value for money and guaranteed to work perfectly with the MK VI+ with very good synergy.
  
 I hope you are enjoying your new MK VI+ as much as I did, and as much as I am continuing to enjoy regularly.


----------



## Androb

It's an amazingly good looking amp and pleasent sound. But I ain't running it in balanced mode atm since I am still waiting for my cables. I didn't expect the amp to be here in less than 3 weeks. So I have to wait and see how the sound will be then


----------



## G600

androb said:


> It's an amazingly good looking amp and pleasent sound. But I ain't running it in balanced mode atm since I am still waiting for my cables. I didn't expect the amp to be here in less than 3 weeks. So I have to wait and see how the sound will be then


 
 Prepare yourself for a butt-kick


----------



## Androb

g600 said:


> Prepare yourself for a butt-kick


 
 Looking forward to it!


----------



## G600

Guaranteed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And another butt-kick when you'll put a NOS quad of power tubes.
  
 That's a nice picture you put on your avatar.


----------



## Androb

Ah yea I want to do some tuberolling aswell  Noticed how expensive tubes is tho so I gotta start saving up ^^
  
 Thanks, on the picture it's in company with a laptop, hegel dac and hd650  In a month or two it will have another friend aswell


----------



## G600

You can get outstanding performance with relativly cheap tubes.
  
 There are some advices on this topic, obviously they are still true !


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote:


g600 said:


> You can get outstanding performance with relativly cheap tubes.
> 
> There are some advices on this topic, obviously they are still true !


 
 Second that. I've found some of the cheaper ones are better than the expensive ones.
  
 Quote:


androb said:


> It's an amazingly good looking amp and pleasent sound. But I ain't running it in balanced mode atm since I am still waiting for my cables. I didn't expect the amp to be here in less than 3 weeks. So I have to wait and see how the sound will be then


 
  Hope you can wait! If there is a better amp I haven't heard it. The sound is perfect for me, clear with just a hint of tubiness, without being too warm and fuzzy. My headphone set up also outperforms my speaker set up, if only the LD would power speakers too!


----------



## Androb

Yea I can wait  I haven't even tested it's full capacity yet so and i'm still quite pleased atm  Dad is going to make me some balanced headphone cables aswell soon. Waiting for HD650 connectors to arrive and also looking if there is anywhere in EU where I can order Audeze connectors


----------



## G600

Baronbeehive, you are so lucky to own a quad of those Bendix ! I'm thinking I'll never find them at a decent price...
 For your speakers, don't forget to try the pre-out of the LD if you can, if you get a fraction of the sound that would be great !
  
 The tube rolling activity is so pleasant... I'm stocking a few pairs of those oldies, and some of them sound incredibly good !
 My advice is to buy some adapters, and take a walk out of the highways...


----------



## G600

Androb, you are talking of the mini XLRs, or of after market cables ?
  
 In the EU you have forza audioworks and toxic cables, who are good and affordable.


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> Baronbeehive, you are so lucky to own a quad of those Bendix ! I'm thinking I'll never find them at a decent price...
> For your speakers, don't forget to try the pre-out of the LD if you can, if you get a fraction of the sound that would be great !


 
 Unfortunately it was potentially dangerous to use it with my direct coupled power amp so I ended up getting a cheapo tube amp, the miniwatt N3, see my profile, which has turned out to be remarkably good so I'm ok atm. Talking of those Bendix I feel the same about those lucky Western Electric owners, but if you can find someone who is selling the odd one out of a stash you might be able to persuade them to put together a quad for a quick sale, I had a bit of luck doing that a while back and the price was reasonable enough to get a few spares as well.


----------



## G600

Yep, there's this seller, who's offering 175 USD per Bendix...


----------



## Androb

g600 said:


> Androb, you are talking of the mini XLRs, or of after market cables ?
> 
> In the EU you have forza audioworks and toxic cables, who are good and affordable.


 
 Yea just the mini XLR connectors 

 Oh damn, the forza seems really priceworthy. Almost just as cheap as making my own cables


----------



## G600

For female mini XLR in EU, you can find them at Thomann, or Audiophonics (and others...).
 Yep, Forza is both well priced and well finished.
 You can sometimes find a group by on forums... with a small discount.


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> Yep, there's this seller, who's offering 175 USD per Bendix...


 
 I didn't say it was going to be easy...... we've all been through this....  It's a crazy world!


----------



## G600

Indeed !
 But those offers are some kind of fun.


----------



## DefQon

Good to see this amp getting some love.
  
 With ventilation and if it is concern with you with the fans being inadequate and noise being an annoyance, you can remove the bottom metal plate, have afixed feets to the sides of the case and have it on a plinth of some sort, lots of ventilation much more than the fans upgraded or not.


----------



## 2K9R56S

Out of curiosity I picked up a pair of Sophia Electric 6SN7 tubes...  Grade B, unused, for $99.  These are the 4th pair of drivers tubes I've bought.  Tung-Sol 6SL7GT, EH 6SN7 and RCA 6SN7GT black plates circa 1953 are the other three.  The Sophia tubes don't have as much gain as the other three (have to crank the dial up to 90 instead of 70), but so far they're at the top of the list and definitely the most 'tubey' sound out of them all.


----------



## DefQon

The Sophia 6SN7's are pretty bad value for the money definitely not worth it considering a RCA 6SN7 coin base or Sylvania bad boy can be found for less then $30 and are damn good.
  
 Don't get me wrong I'm not dissing the Sophia Electric stuff, I had quad (now a pair) of there grade A 12AU7 and a pair of there best 300B (very $$) and consider them among the best of it's tube family easily on par with the $400 12AU7's I've tried and stuff.
  
 Try some Psvanes as well they are again amongst the best I've tried.


----------



## khaine1711

Isn't the Sophia 6sn7 (and 300b for that matter) just TJ full music rebranded?


----------



## DefQon

khaine1711 said:


> Isn't the Sophia 6sn7 (and 300b for that matter) just TJ full music rebranded?


 
 Yes for the first and yes/no for the second depending on the grade you buy. I think Skylab mentioned it as well for the 6SN7 but the actual manufacturer for TJ is unknown and definitely not Shuguang or from the Beijing factory plants as I have asked few of my overseas contacts that know more about these tubes than anybody on this forum.
  
 Not that rebrand's are any bad, Mullard, Amperex etc did it back in the day as well. Fakes and imitations is another story.


----------



## khaine1711

Yea rebrand is fine - I have a few rebrand tube in my nest. However, rebrand with increase cost is meh - not sure how it is in the States but in the UK, Sophia 6sn7 is like 50% more expensive than TJ 6sn7. Just curious DefQon, have you tried the 5692 (RCA and CBS) in your Mk6?


----------



## DefQon

khaine1711 said:


> Yea rebrand is fine - I have a few rebrand tube in my nest. However, rebrand with increase cost is meh - not sure how it is in the States but in the UK, Sophia 6sn7 is like 50% more expensive than TJ 6sn7. Just curious DefQon, have you tried the 5692 (RCA and CBS) in your Mk6?


 

 Haven't tried the 5692 with the MK6 as my current stash of 6SN7's is plenty maybe I will get a 5692 maybe in the future. I really want an EL84/KT66 or 88 based amp (both not in the same amp), but only because I've got over tons of quad 6BQ5/6P14/EL84's lying around. Wouldn't mind a 6DJ8 for input or drive and some FU32's for power that'd be awesome but those tubes are microphonic as schit.
  
 Heck I wouldn't mind LD doing a tube amp using some mercury gas filled tubes for the blue glow and a proper 6X4 based rectification in a regulated PS.


----------



## khaine1711

defqon said:


> Haven't tried the 5692 with the MK6 as my current stash of 6SN7's is plenty maybe I will get a 5692 maybe in the future. I really want an EL84/KT66 or 88 based amp (both not in the same amp), but only because I've got over tons of quad 6BQ5/6P14/EL84's lying around. Wouldn't mind a 6DJ8 for input or drive and some FU32's for power that'd be awesome but those tubes are microphonic as schit.
> 
> *Heck I wouldn't mind LD doing a tube amp using some mercury gas filled tubes for the blue glow and a proper 6X4 based rectification in a regulated PS.*


 
 Might as well sell life insurance bundled with that if they still put it in the Mk6 chassis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
 Your previousx2 post got me thinking. You think the Mk6 can survive bottomless, no fan, on top of a chair with the seating part removed (similar to a cage with no net) in the summer?


----------



## baronbeehive

khaine1711 said:


> Yea rebrand is fine - I have a few rebrand tube in my nest. However, rebrand with increase cost is meh - not sure how it is in the States but in the UK, Sophia 6sn7 is like 50% more expensive than TJ 6sn7. Just curious DefQon, have you tried the 5692 (RCA and CBS) in your Mk6?


 
 For what it's worth, and I haven't tried the 5692's, I suspect that they are overhyped. The reason being that some rave about them while others do not. I've tried the RCA 6SN7GT gray glass which are similarly subect to almost godlike devotion and found them very disappointing. Yes they are quite musical and sweet sounding but you pay for this in loss of detail. It's like an old tube sound, warm and cosy. Admittedly these early types are quite variable but I've tried several, all with the same results. My feeling is that if people have paid a fortune for new tubes then they are not going to admit to themselves that they've been had!!


----------



## G600

Studying the circuit again, thinking once more on upgrades... I noticed 4 OP Amps (Burr-Brown OPA445AP).
 Does anybody know what are they for ? I don't see any rolling to do there, but don't know their purpose here.


----------



## john57

g600 said:


> Studying the circuit again, thinking once more on upgrades... I noticed 4 OP Amps (Burr-Brown OPA445AP).
> Does anybody know what are they for ? I don't see any rolling to do there, but don't know their purpose here.


 
 They are used for DC servo control. Since the LD VI+ do not use output caps there has to be a way of reducing the DC at the outputs. Yes they are quite important and not much in the way of rolling available.


----------



## DefQon

khaine1711 said:


> Might as well sell life insurance bundled with that if they still put it in the Mk6 chassis
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some of Frank Cooter's creation use mercury gas filled tubes.
  
 Some eye candy:
  


  
 I'm a sucker for colourful tubes.
  
 As with my point about removing the bottom plate yep sure works did it with MK6 while it was in one piece.
  
 Here is an example of concept that I'm talking about to combat heat, maintaining circulated ventilation and maintaining longetivity of the components in there.
  

  
  
  
  


baronbeehive said:


> For what it's worth, and I haven't tried the 5692's, I suspect that they are overhyped. The reason being that some rave about them while others do not. I've tried the RCA 6SN7GT gray glass which are similarly subect to almost godlike devotion and found them very disappointing.


 
 As long as you get it for free or cheap it's not overhype then .
  
 I have one of those RCA grey glass 6SN7 and also found them disappointing with a lot of the amp's (that take 6SN7) and alot of headphones driven by those amps. I found the sound to be sluggish sounding like waking up 6am on a Saturday or Sunday morning, the aspects of sound treble and especially upper mids was not coherent with the rest of the sound spectrum especially the muddled sounding low-end. I do however like them in a $12k preamp I tried while ago.
  


g600 said:


> Studying the circuit again, thinking once more on upgrades... I noticed 4 OP Amps (Burr-Brown OPA445AP).
> Does anybody know what are they for ? I don't see any rolling to do there, but don't know their purpose here.


 
  
 See below:


john57 said:


> They are used for DC servo control. Since the LD VI+ do not use output caps there has to be a way of reducing the DC at the outputs. Yes they are quite important and not much in the way of rolling available.


 
 John is bang on the money with what they do if anything avoid rolling those opamp's because they are outside the signal path and are chosen based on measured specs with what it does in the circuit of the MK6 i.e don't touch them unless it's borked.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yep, removing the bottom looks like a worthwhile mod, it would be easier to clean as well. I try to vacuum up the dust using a nozzle pointed at the air holes in the top atm! Don't want this little gem to conk out just yet.
 You wake up at 6am on sundays 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Apart from that that's exactly how I would describe the sound of the gray glass RCA's, pretty weird but very laid back, they might suit very aggressive sounding amps possibly. From what I've heard that sound may be how to describe the 5692's as well. You're quite right about the synergy though. I recently read a review about a great value chinese amp that most reviews have been rather unkind about but when paired with very high end outputs, instead of the rather more basic kit, it was rated higher than ultra high end kit. This was because it was just allowed to concentrate on the basics while the outputs took a lot of the load off the amp, allowing it to do what it does best.
  
 Unfortunately for G600 there don't appear to be any cheap Bendixes around now, it wasn't that long ago I paid less for a quad than what he was quoted for one! I just hope people don't go round searching out reviews for the latest tube gear, then hyping them to fever pitch etc etc........ you know the rest.


----------



## khaine1711

defqon said:


> As with my point about removing the bottom plate yep sure works did it with MK6 while it was in one piece.
> 
> Here is an example of concept that I'm talking about to combat heat, maintaining circulated ventilation and maintaining longetivity of the components in there.


 
 That is point to point wiring though. Main problem I have seen with the Mk6 is the heat kinda damage the resistor near the tubes. It's quite rare but I don't really wanna look it up once in a while just to make sure. 
  
I plan to have some furniture made this week (compy table + rack ..etc) - I was thinking on something similar to pkjames in the past:
  

  
  Where I live temporary now the summer can get up to 36ºC/96ºF. I think Australia also got a hot summer as well? You think Mk6 can survive bottomless in the summer? - or should I stick a big ass 200mm fan below just to be sure?


----------



## john57

When you take the bottom off a large fan spinning at a low speed should do the trick. You just need a gentle breeze to carry the heat away and you should have low fan noise as well. The fan does not need to right against the bottom and you might get some air flow at the top for cooling as well. Being creative you may find a cooling solution that will work very well for your needs. Even a quiet USB fan blowing a few inches from the bottom with the amp bottom cover off can do the trick when the amp is placed on slats.  Putting on longer feet with the bottom on can help just a bit in some cases.


----------



## Androb

Got a new shelf at my pc so fixing it atm.
 It is sleeping atm, hopefully feeling real good at it's new place tomorrow


----------



## DefQon

khaine1711 said:


> That is point to point wiring though. Main problem I have seen with the Mk6 is the heat kinda damage the resistor near the tubes. It's quite rare but I don't really wanna look it up once in a while just to make sure.
> 
> I plan to have some furniture made this week (compy table + rack ..etc) - I was thinking on something similar to pkjames in the past:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeh I know it's P2P wiring but the catch is P2P allows better airflow and ventilation compared to components cramped onto a PCB even if the PCB has ventilation holes for possible hotspot components (power resistors and such).
  
 But you get the idea of what I was trying to say with removing the bottom panel which allows for further ventilation and air flow which is pretty poor of the amount of stuff in the MK6 and MK8.
  
 As with the resistor being burnt that was zenpunks MK6. One can always change the resistor to a higher watt spec.
  
 Hot summer in Australia? It's currently Summer here and in our state we just had a 4 day Summer heat wave of 40-44'C yes centigrade not fahrenheit, it's finally cooled down to 23'C or so now, bipolar weather for sure.
  
 Personally I stick by old school engineering design principles and that is fan's + tube amp's don't go well, it is an invitation for more dust to go in and I don't like the idea of an oscillating circuit from a DC fan going at it inside the amp, measurable or not it's a point to keep in mind.


----------



## john57

I would not worry about dust. I have to keep the filters in my PC clean every moth with all the fans that runs in it. I have seen some horrible dust levels in PC's at work. Even with SS amps having a fan will extend its life even with a huge heat sink. One of the conditions that heat is good for a tube amp is that if you are using beewax caps in it. A gentle breeze is also good for the power tubes and transformers as well. The fans are not as close so I do not have to worry about interference. Water or oil cooled tubes are not unheard of.  Heat is not really a friend most of the time with amps.


----------



## baronbeehive

Point to point is a selling point with value chinese amps now, for example, which only put in the components that are the most basic to ensure great sound without interference and low cost. I think this gives them greater control over the design, manufacturing and signal path as well as keeping to their back to basics approach. I've got to hand it to them with the way they are focussing on every element of the design process, for example my miniwatt which I use for speakers has a very small footprint, especially next to the MkVI and that's due to the switch mode PSU.


----------



## khaine1711

I want a p2p version of the MK6 in a slightly bigger chassis (but still retains the general styling) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Guess I'd go with the fan like this - couldn't be louder than the TYF 140 fan in my Silver Arrow


----------



## john57

khaine1711
 Looking pretty  good. One of the advantages of using a larger fan is that generally the fan noise would be lower pitch. What is the RPM of the fan?


----------



## G600

khaine1711 said:


> I want a p2p version of the MK6 in a slightly bigger chassis (but still retains the general styling)


 
 Personally, I just want a better chassis. On the one hand to put a stepped attenuator, and on the other hand to put big capacitor !


----------



## khaine1711

john57 said:


> khaine1711
> Looking pretty  good. One of the advantages of using a larger fan is that generally the fan noise would be lower pitch. What is the RPM of the fan?


 
 That was pkjames pic, mine is still in the planning stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Looking around local store I can only find 1000 and 800 rpm 200mm fan (Xigmatek). I'm thinking of either getting two silent 120mm fan (Cougar/Scythe) or order a 230mm fan - I think I got two noctua 80mm laying around my drawer too.


----------



## ozaudios

I followed 'pkjames's' design, even used exactly the same fan,Bitfenix Spectre 230mm 900 RPM <20dBa. I fitted 2 stainless steel mesh filters on the bottom of the Little Dot (to replace the wire fan covers) and fitted a plastic mesh filter before the fan. The plastic mesh filter is designed for computer fans and mounts magnetically. I cut out some steel plate from an old computer case to get a steel surround for the fan, so that the filter mounts easily and can be removed and refitted quickly and easily. The steel plate is stuck down with duck tape, not pretty but it is under the shelf that holds the amp and can only be seen if I am laying down on the floor. I am using an external power supply to run the fan so that no electrical interference from the fan affects the amp. This also allows me to continue to cool the amp after the amp is switched off, and down here in Aus the temperature gets HOT so keeping the amp cool is an important thing.
  
 I have found this design to work very well. Even with the bottom plate still on the amp and air being forced through the stainless steel filters, the air flow can be felt when I hold my hand above the tubes. And the noise of the fan blowing the air is almost nothing. I did make a wooded 'skirt' around the base of the amp, to force the air through the amp and not out the sides through the gap under the amp beside the feet. And the BLUE LED lights on the fan remind me that the fan is still switched on so that I don't forget about the fan and leave it on all night.
  
 I found the photos and instructions from 'pkjames" to be very helpful.


----------



## ozaudios

Wooden skirt under amp.

  
 Before the wooden skirt, and on it's side for some reason?


----------



## DefQon

baronbeehive said:


> Point to point is a selling point with value chinese amps now, for example, which only put in the components that are the most basic to ensure great sound without interference and low cost. I think this gives them greater control over the design, manufacturing and signal path as well as keeping to their back to basics approach. I've got to hand it to them with the way they are focussing on every element of the design process, for example my miniwatt which I use for speakers has a very small footprint, especially next to the MkVI and that's due to the switch mode PSU.


 
  
 P2P wiring also increases the cost of the amp, it's only been recent years that the Chinese have started to use it (some designs and circuits to be frowned upon though), I for one hate crowded PCB designs for tube amp's.


----------



## ozaudios

I just ordered a '*Jensen Transformers DM2-2RX' *
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
*It will allow me to attach single ended output audio equipment to the Little Dot MK VI+ XLR inputs. The Jensen Transformers are said to be very transparent, often used by the broadcasting industry and recording studios. I bought it especially to connect my new phono stage to the Little Dot.*


----------



## Brendanz

ozaudios said:


> Wooden skirt under amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just wondering what tubes are you using on the little dot MKVI?


----------



## khaine1711

First pic is Shuguang Treasure + Rca 6as7g black plate.
  
 Second pic seems to be stock tube to me


----------



## ozaudios

In photo 1:
 Power Tubes:
 Svetlana 6N5S {Military version of 6N13S) made in 1968, bought recently N.O.S. for $15 each. I like these tubes, they sound clean and clear with good instrument separation and big sound-stage.
  
http://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_78&products_id=107
  
 Driver Tubes:
 Shuguang 50 Years Treasure, with socket saver under tube as the ceramic base of the tube is wider than the Aluminium rings on the Amplifier will allow.
  
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-z-pair/
  
 Stock tubes in second photo, the first day I had the amplifier.


----------



## ozaudios

I got the Jensen Transformers DM2-2RX today, but I am still waiting for the phono-stage. But I did connect up my CD player (Denon DCD 700 AE) to the Little Dot MK VI+ through the Jensen DM2-2RX. I am surprised at the Jensen Transformer, it works so well at converting a single ended signal to a balanced signal. 
  
 I have been listening to WMA Lossless music that I ripped from CD, played with Foobar2000, through a Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 then a Little Dot DAC I, then the Little Dot MK VI+..... and the sound was good....... but today I ran the Denon CD player through the Jensen Transformer and then into the balanced input of the Little Dot MK VI+. The sound was at a slightly lower volume, but the quality seemed better, a bit clearer and crisper. The sound-stage seemed better. I am very surprised with this result. I was not expecting a transformer to make the quality of the sound better. 
  
 Until last week I was not aware that a transformer could convert a single ended signal to a balanced signal, and I am happily surprised at how good the quality of the sound is after running it through the Jensen Transformer DM2-2RX. It cost $200, but it is worth the money for what it does.


----------



## john57

Yes a transformer secondary can certainly technically be balanced and provide over 90db of ground loop isolation as well. Jensen is about as good as a brand for signal level conversion for the pro audio market.
  
 Jensen also make a SUB-2RR specially made for driving powered subwoofers at very low frequencies while getting rid of any AC hum.  It is hard for transformer to operate at low frequencies and still be linear. That model is low rated frequency response: is -1dB at 0.4Hz, -3dB at 0.15Hz


----------



## Androb

Those Svetlana power tubes you got, do they fit directly without any sockets or modding?


----------



## john57

The Svetlana is my favorite Russian brand and they will just fit any Little Dot products without mods.


----------



## ozaudios

androb said:


> Those Svetlana power tubes you got, do they fit directly without any sockets or modding?


 
 They fit straight in, no mods no extras. They run cooler than the 6080 tubes. If you want to upgrade from stock power tubes and can't afford the Western Electric and other high end tubes, try the Svetlana tubes, they are very good. I have never tried the Western Electric tubes so I can't compare them, but I know the Svetlana tubes are great...... try the 6N5S military issue tubes, made in 1968, I got 4 all made in the same batch, same date code, perfect condition,new but made almost 50 years ago, read high on the mV gauge on the amp. They were made in St Petersburg and are shipped out from Moscow. The link to the Tubes Store is the shop I have bought from a number of times.... trustworthy, honest, pay with PayPal, and all the tubes I bought from them are very good.


----------



## Androb

I might actually try them  A good price!


----------



## Androb

Will the Svetlana power tubes work well with the original driver tubes?
 Thinking of ordering them but keep the original driver tubes since it's alot of money to spend.


----------



## DefQon

john57 said:


> The Svetlana is my favorite Russian brand and they will just fit any Little Dot products without mods.


 
  
 Is this the 6H13C's you're talking about? Tall shaped coke bottle 6080/6AS7G equivalents?


----------



## ozaudios

I swapped my original driver tubes very soon after getting the amp, so I can't say if they have good synergy with the Svetlana 6N5S.
  
 I have bought many sets of power tubes since getting the amplifier, and I like the 6N5S so much that I will buy another set of 4, maybe even 2 sets of 4. They are GOOD clean sounding tubes, and great value at $15 each for 46 year old tubes that are not made any more, special military edition (usually last longer) that come as effectively a matched set..... same date and production run, N.O.S.
  
 I do not know where to get such good tubes in a set, vintage military edition, N.O.S. never used for such a good price. And delivery cost me $12 for delivery to Australia from Moscow!
  
 You will be happy with these tubes if you buy them.


----------



## ozaudios

The label says '6H5C' which is Russian for '6N5S'
 This tube is plugged into a socket, they are standard OCTAL BASE tubes.


----------



## ozaudios

The 6N5S have a good glow, put out a lot of light, and they look so good.


----------



## Androb

Looks beautiful indeed  I actually ordered them because of the low cost. Would like some other driver tubes aswell but don't know what to get.


----------



## G600

Just received a quad of RCA 6AS7G black plates, there is one with a short 
 My try will be delayed...
  
 To relieve my sadness, I've just (finally in fact) pulled the trigger on 4 capacitor. I've bought 0.33µF "only", don't want extra trouble with huge monsters in the little chassis.
 Like you guys, I'm thinking of modding the bottom plates, unless I'll have trouble with the fans.


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> Just received a quad of RCA 6AS7G black plates, there is one with a short
> My try will be delayed...


 
  If you can hang on........... I don't think you will be disappointed. I like the RCA's, lovely rich sound, I've still got mine just in case.....


----------



## G600

Yes, I hope so !
 They ran a few hours before this one started shorting :/
 Not very kind for the amp by the way...
  
 What's your everyday set on your MK VI ?


----------



## baronbeehive

My "permanent" set are the Bendix 6080WB's, they just give that extra bit of warmth and clarity over the RCA's that provide the ideal background for your driver tubes. Anything more exotic is wallet breaking unfortunately. I like the clarity of the USA tubes such as Tungsol, they are superb for that Fender twang type sound, but the warmth of the European tubes such as Amperex. Not having any Amperex I think the Bendix's do provide a hint of warmth, they certainly are not sterile sounding like the Tungsol 7236's for example.


----------



## G600

Don't talk about wallet-ache 
 I need to buy a good balanced DAC, neutral on the warm side, but can't afford it right now.
 So I'm staying with my soundcard, not very satisfied yet. My new rig -to my ears- is a bit hard on top end, and lacking bass. i find the result quite stressed, and not so improved by the tubes I'm stocking. I have to say it's painful for me to find trebles for my taste... and I don't think the MK VI+ to be a trebly amp. It is just a neutral amp, maybe picky on the source.
  
 You have a nice set of power tubes, they seem to be the perfect all-rounders for both rich and relaxed listening and driver tube rolling !
 Yes, the US tubes we are talking are generally quite clear and a tad dry. But I've not rolled any European power tubes, beside Sovtek Svetlana rebrands (not so European...).


----------



## baronbeehive

I've got the opposite problem to you, I find heavy bass stressful, I like it defined but not too punchy. I thought Audeze made fairly bass heavy cans? It comes out fairly realistically in the HiFiMan HE500's and the HE-6 but not heavily like, for example Ultrasone's which give a speaker like sound. Bass is improved by balanced operation and also by finding the right  DAC, which others might be able to suggest the right one. I do find the treble on the LD very smooth and sweet sounding. When I heard a particular Elbow track with electric piano with a set of Tungsol 6Sn7's I was hooked, it sounded really magical. That's why I use TS 6SL7's now for all types of music, the price of the 6Sn7's went ballistic!
  
 I suggest you look for tubes with a slight treble rolloff, I like bass with a slight roll off, I don't like the very deep bass particularly, unfortunately none come to mind. The other thing I've found is a better USB such as a Wireworld UV, which, contrary to what I expected improved the sound somewhat from an initially rather sharp sound like a low quality bitrate rip, to a very much more pleasant rounder sound with a better harmonic content and improved sound stage. Also possibly stick with copper cables with a softer sound, rather than a silver one. The thing apart from bass which really stresses me out is the constant annoying sound of the highhat which sounds rather like sitting next to someone on a train who's listening to an ipod.


----------



## G600

I'm not chasing heavy or muddy bass, just powerful, defined and full ones. Audeze cans are surely capable of that (their flat response make them able to deliver realistic and demonstrative bass), but I'm not hearing what I heard on several systems.
  
 I'm pretty sure the MK VI itself (ie without tube) is a very neutral amp, which you can tweak by rolling tubes and matching sources (in fact it's what a good tube amp must be !). And indeed it has to be runned balanced from source to cans.
 Do you catch differences between TS 6sn7 and 6sl7 ?


----------



## baronbeehive

No I didn't hear any differences although I know others have.


----------



## Androb

I am using the Hegel HD20 as a dac. It got numerous times price for the best dac of the year from different magazines.
 The HD11/HD20/HD25 is amazing dacs, but HD20 is the most price worthy if u can find it still, it ran out of production and the price got lowered by almost 50 percent, leaving it around 700euro.
 I think it's pretty bassy.


----------



## G600

OK, so thin differences if any. I'm dreaming of a topic comparing 6sn7 and 6sl7 of the same brand...


----------



## G600

androb said:


> I am using the Hegel HD20 as a dac. It got numerous times price for the best dac of the year from different magazines.
> The HD11/HD20/HD25 is amazing dacs, but HD20 is the most price worthy if u can find it still, it ran out of production and the price got lowered by almost 50 percent, leaving it around 700euro.
> I think it's pretty bassy.


 
 Yep, this one is on my list, along with some Matrix, Audio GD, Linnenberg and other less known contenders. I wish I could audition them all...


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> I'm not chasing heavy or muddy bass, just powerful, defined and full ones. Audeze cans are surely capable of that (their flat response make them able to deliver realistic and demonstrative bass), but I'm not hearing what I heard on several systems.


 
  
 My only other thought on the bass is that the LD is not lightening fast unlike say some SET amps and the leading edge is noticeably softer IMO although no doubt the factory upgrade with the silver wiring would help.


----------



## DefQon

If you want faster, tighter bass more realistically sounding than just gobs of quantity you need to rebuild the amp PM if you're interested it only involves replacing some parts.


----------



## ozaudios

androb said:


> Looks beautiful indeed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The MK VI+ will run well with either 6SN7 or 6SL7 tubes. The 6SL7 has higher gain than the 6SN7.
  
 Here is a link to a discussion about 6SN7 tube types: http://www.head-fi.org/t/117677/the-reference-6sn7-thread
  
 I hope this gives you some ideas of what you might like to buy.


----------



## Androb

Finally listening in balanced mode  My dad made me a cheapish cable for my HD650, so it's not close to being the best cable wise, but everything became better


----------



## ozaudios

A few months ago I bought a pair of RCA 6SN7GT tubes, J.A.N. grey glass, 1940's, I got them on ebay for $30. 
 Today I put them in the Little Dot for the first time, and I must say that these tubes are something special! Smooth and mellow, big bass, good mid range and a bit sparkling in the high range. I would have to rate them as some of the very best tubes I have ever listened to. Sometimes a bargain can be found on ebay from private sellers who are selling some old bits from in the shed.


----------



## baronbeehive

It's interesting how opinions differ on these tubes. I agree they are very mellow but I do not like them for the same reason I did not like the mullards I had with my LD mkiv se, they were very musical and easy to listen to for hours on end but that didn't compensate for the lack of detail, and also that smoothness was not accompanied by any increase in the body of the sound, it was rather like being surrounded in fog, however if others like them that's good. I also don't like Sylviana tubes due to them being rather light and sparky but again I know others do and there are some superb tubes in the Sylvania family. Again Brimars, sound totally unbalanced to me although I can appreciate their good qualities as well they are another tube that's not for me. Tungsols however are musical, detailed but very balanced sounding with a hint of something special as well. Interestingly I can hear the same differences in tube families across tube types as much the same overall sound qualities apply to the tubes I have in my miniwatt amp as well. I don't know why this is but must be something to do with the factories, materials and working practices employed there. Regarding new issue tubes some people regard chinese tubes as being pretty bad for example, others disagree. I found some that I've tried, TJ Full Music, to be good however with the defect that they sound more brittle and the sound does not appear to go very deep in the same way that it does with a good nos tube, also some have commented on the difference between nos TS's and new issue, much like a good wine is matured and only then loses it's bright superficial quality. Some people have noticed this defect with some new issue tubes. I didn't intend to go on about tubes again but ozaudios comment made me think back.


----------



## Androb

Enjoying the night with a few cold beer and dad made me some balanced cables so it's gonna be a good night


----------



## DefQon

Wheres my beer?


Hows that 650? on the VI?


----------



## Androb

defqon said:


> Wheres my beer?
> 
> 
> Hows that 650? on the VI?


 
 It's here waiting in Sweden!  
 Ah the 650, never heard it sound this good. In balanced mode it beats my Lehmann with ease.
 It is really amazing, I got nothing to complain about.


----------



## ozaudios

Has anyone here ever used the GE 6AS7GA tube?


----------



## DefQon

Yes I own one.


----------



## ozaudios

Anyone tried either of these?


----------



## ozaudios

defqon said:


> Yes I own one.


 
 Are they good tubes? I have a set of 4, the posts and wire wound round the posts looks to be a silver colour, not copper.


----------



## DefQon

Yes I own a pair as well.


----------



## ozaudios

Have you tried the MELZ 6H8C?


----------



## DefQon

Not sure about MELZ branding but have a few Russian 6H8C's. Nothing special about them except they withstand abuse and have long hours on them. Also cheap.


----------



## ozaudios

The MELZ are NOT cheap!
http://www.tubemaze.info/melz-6n8s6sn7-gray-plates-holes-in-plate/
  
 Tube Maze sells pairs for over $150.
 They have good reviews, I was looking to see if anyone with a MK VI+ has tried them, do they work well with the Little Dot?


----------



## DefQon

Holy schit t i ts!
  
 $150 for one?
  
 I got mine for $0 only because I paid $800 for a box of 2400 tubes, various kinds.


----------



## ozaudios

Those MELZ tubes with holes in the plates were made for the USSR Military- never sold to the public -used for nuclear power plant control systems, and used on the Russian Space Station, and used for guidance systems on missiles. They are considered to be the highest quality tube ever made in the USSR, they were expensive to build, and were only used for special military purposes. 
  
 They sell for about $175 for a pair. Often called a 1578 MELZ.


----------



## ozaudios

I got this photo from ebay:


----------



## DefQon

I'm talking the 6H8C. That say's its a 6N8S?


----------



## ozaudios

defqon said:


> I'm talking the 6H8C. That say's its a 6N8S?


 
 The translation of 6N8S from Russian to English is 6H8C.
 The Russian N is an English H
 The Russian C is an English S


----------



## DefQon

ozaudios said:


> The translation of 6N8S from Russian to English is 6H8C.
> The Russian N is an English H
> The Russian C is an English S


 
 What a disgrace I'm half Russian and I completely forgot about that. I meant the 6H8C tubes I have are cheap Russian's. Don't know about the Melz.


----------



## baronbeehive

ozaudios said:


> Those MELZ tubes with holes in the plates were made for the USSR Military- never sold to the public -used for nuclear power plant control systems, and used on the Russian Space Station, and used for guidance systems on missiles. They are considered to be the highest quality tube ever made in the USSR, they were expensive to build, and were only used for special military purposes.
> 
> They sell for about $175 for a pair. Often called a 1578 MELZ.


 
  
 Probably so called because they are in danger of MELZ-down.....


----------



## ozaudios

baronbeehive said:


> Probably so called because they are in danger of MELZ-down.....


 
 Moscow Electro-Lamp Plant          http://www.melz-evp.ru/about.html  
  
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moscow,_Elektrozavodskaya_Street_MELZ.jpg


----------



## baronbeehive

ln repIy to ozaudios, Skylab comments about 6AS7G's, he says that the 6080 performs identically to the 6AS7g but that makes such as Sylvania and Raytheon don't add anything over and above the RCA's: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/22/220349.html
  
 I was going to try the Raytheon's before getting the Bendixes but since these fulfill my requirements nicely I won't bother now. I've tried the 6SN7GT's and VT231's though, identical sounding and identical construction incidently, and in general Raytheons are clear, quite warm and punchy sounding, but so are the Bendixes, and I'm not letting 'em go now that I've got them........ unless that is, someone has some western electric that are going cheap. I'm not holding my breath and if anyone sees pigs flying let me know.


----------



## ozaudios

I have found some good information regarding 6AS7G tubes at    http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php?topic=3453.0
  
 But they do not mention the USA made GE 6AS7GA, a short glass tube similar in size to the 6080 but with a very different structure to any other 6AS7G or 6080 tube that I have ever seen.
  
 Although the article quoted by Baronbeehive mentions that "The JAN (Joint Army Navy) versions were supposedly somehow selected specially (tighter tolerances, etc), but there are no construction differences with the non-military versions." I have found JAN versions of the Sylvania 6080 are of a different construction to the Sylvania 6080 Gold Brand. I am not sure how this different structure affects the sound, but I doubt that tubes that are designed and made to different specifications could sound the same.
  
 The quoted article also states that "The primary construction differences in a 6AS7G are that some are made with a top halo getter (and the resulting chrome top flashing appearance) and some with bottom-mounted D getters" but I have noticed that the USA made GE 6AS7GA structure is nothing like the UK made GEC 6AS7G tube structure.
 .
  

  
 This tube has a "H" shaped plate structure, and the UK version has 2 flat plates on either side of the tube.
  
 The article quoted also states that "The 6080 is identical in performance to the 6AS7G"..... and I do not agree with this comment!
 I have various brands of 6080 tubes and each brand has slightly different sonic qualities (and various structures not at all like the 6AS7G structure), and some of my 6AS7G tubes have sound differences to the 6080 tubes (focusing on different frequencies and having differing sound stage and instrument separation qualities. I do not believe that tubes with different structures and made from different materials could sound identical.
  
 Although I must admit that tubes are like wine, some people like what other people don't like, and 2 tubes from the one batch can sound very different, like 2 bottles of wine from the one vintage that have been stored in different places can taste different.
  
 The common opinion is that the Western Electric 421A is the best, and I am not arguing with this opinion, I am just trying to find other people who have opinions about how some of the 6080 and 6AS7G (and GA) and the 6N13S and 6N5S tubes sound in the Little Dot MK VI+, and how they are affected by differing driver tubes........like do the Western Electric 421A tubes sound different when used with various driver tubes? And how is the sound of the 6080 tubes changed by pairing them with different driver tubes?


----------



## DefQon

I remember Skylab reporting that the WE 421A is the same as the TS 5998? But you pay a premium for the 421A because it's WE.
  
 My memory is vague here so correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The 6AS7GTA would be low on my wants list of tubes....loads of great 6AS7GT, 6080, 5998s etc are all well above


----------



## ozaudios

nic rhodes said:


> The 6AS7GTA would be low on my wants list of tubes....loads of great 6AS7GT, 6080, 5998s etc are all well above


 
 Have you tried the 6AS7GA tube? I have tried many 6080 tubes, and this 6AS7GA sounds surprisingly good, but that might just be the MELZ driver tube it is coupled with.


----------



## ozaudios

Quote from " http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=158 "
  
General Electric / 6AS7GA-GENERAL ELECTRIC  

 6AS7GA is a full military specification military valve that is selected for long life under extreme operating conditions.
 This is a superb audio performer hence this valve is used in some very expensive high end audio applications due to the valves deep solid bass and clean midrange.
 The valve produces a large sound stage with a tight punch sound which many customers have preferred over the Russian 6AS7G.
 The valve is straight sided and internally supported to reduce vibration and comes in the original government box


----------



## DefQon

It has big bass.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

ozaudios said:


> Have you tried the 6AS7GA tube? I have tried many 6080 tubes, and this 6AS7GA sounds surprisingly good, but that might just be the MELZ driver tube it is coupled with.


 
  yes, not one of my favourites, my gut hunch is it is a modified variant of another tube to make it have similar characteristics. Not one for me  shame due to the price....


----------



## ozaudios

With the recent tube rolling I have noticed some differences in sound quality, mostly with sound-stage. The Svetlana 6N5S has the biggest sound-stage of any tube I have tried. But overall the amplifier has had amazing high frequency detail, I think it might be called transparency. The detail of the music has been so clear and crisp (especially in the very high frequency range) that it reminds me of a sheet of clear glass or crystal. I found that Disco Music and Synthesiser sounded just amazing. 
  
 Yesterday I put 4 new Sylvania Gold Brand 6080 tubes into the Little Dot MK VI+, and there was a dramatic change in the sound signature. The bass increased and the high frequency crystal clear detail reduced, and electric guitars just came to life. The amp turned into a Rock machine. Queen and Deep Purple and Jimi Hendrix have never sounded so good. I can still hear the symbols crashing but at a reduced volume. The screaming guitars came to life, like a spotlight is shining on the guitar players. Disco still sounds very good, and synthesisers  still sound great, but these tubes are just made for electric guitar and Rock. I did listen to some Classical music and the stringed instruments in the low frequency range sounded great (what are those over-sized violins that stand upright called? They sounded just wonderful, like they were right beside me!) 
  
 Unlike the other Sylvania J.A.N. tubes that I have tried these Gold Brand have some differences in the plate construction. The other Sylvania and the RCA 6080's have 4 plates side by side at even intervals, like a bank of 4 plates. The Gold Brand have 4 plates arranged in 2 banks of 2. So 2 plates on one side with a heater between them, and 2 plates on the other side with a heater between them. This is the only visual difference I have noticed, so I presume it is why the Gold Brand tubes sound so very different. These tubes are not for everyone, some people would hate them, but for Rock and Roll lovers and screaming guitar addicts these are the tubes to have in the Little Dot MK VI+


----------



## baronbeehive

ozaudios said:


> .......
> 
> Yesterday I put 4 new Sylvania Gold Brand 6080 tubes into the Little Dot MK VI+, and there was a dramatic change in the sound signature. The bass increased and the high frequency crystal clear detail reduced, and electric guitars just came to life. The amp turned into a Rock machine. Queen and Deep Purple and Jimi Hendrix have never sounded so good. I can still hear the symbols crashing but at a reduced volume. The screaming guitars came to life, like a spotlight is shining on the guitar players. Disco still sounds very good, and synthesisers  still sound great, but these tubes are just made for electric guitar and Rock. I did listen to some Classical music and the stringed instruments in the low frequency range sounded great (what are those over-sized violins that stand upright called? They sounded just wonderful, like they were right beside me!)
> 
> .......


 
  
 Those oversized violins are called cellos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Thanks for your interesting observations on the Sylvanias. I wondered what they sounded like because they were number one on my "to get" list, (which was growing by the minute). The arrival of the Bendixes has rendered them obsolete though now. They are supposed to be more musical sounding after the Melz's I assume you had in before which I believe are high frequency detail monsters. You are right when you mention the LD's sound signature especially the high frequencies as I keep saying my headphone setup outperforms my speaker set up ATM, except possibly in the bass department, and I am having to investigate this with my speaker amp to see how I can improve things. Keep us informed of your observations and if you have any favourites.


----------



## ozaudios

Hi Baronbeehive, are your Bendix 6080 tubes the same as the one in the photo below?

 I have a set of 4 of these heavy graphite plate tubes, are they as good as the reviews say they are? (I have not got around to putting them in the amp yet) When coupled with The Little Dot MK VI+ how do they perform?


----------



## baronbeehive

I have some like that and some with the slot in the plates. Having been lucky with a seller who I asked if he had a set when he was selling one tube, I subsequenly managed to persuade him to see if he could put together any more sets which he did. So it is possible to obtain tubes even when the price is going stratospheric as they were then. I think they are a great all rounder, very detailed and punchy yet smooth, balanced and musical, not sterile or analytical, certainly not laid back either. I love to listen to jazz type drums where you can really hear all the different sounds coming through so clearly from the round bongo sounds to the different metallic sounds of cymbals depending on where the drumstick hits them. Good attack and decay but not overly sharp sounding. I found these tubes really excell at this kind of detail. There are minimal differences between the 2 types with the ones with the slots being slightly more airy possibly.


----------



## ozaudios

OK, I tried out the Graphite Plate Bendix tubes and I did find them to be energetic and musical, big on the bass (not as OVER big as the Gold Brand ) but I thought they were a bit to rich in the bass at the expense of loosing some of the very high frequency detail and transparency. 
  
 I have put back the Svetlana 6N5S tubes, they have a good balance of sound, bass that is there without being over emphasised, and amazing high frequency details with a very good mid range. Some people might find them to be to analytical, a bit to revealing, but I like to be somewhat overwhelmed by detail coming at me from every direction, which is what the Svetlana 6N5S do.


----------



## Androb

ozaudios said:


> In photo 1:
> Power Tubes:
> Svetlana 6N5S {Military version of 6N13S) made in 1968, bought recently N.O.S. for $15 each. I like these tubes, they sound clean and clear with good instrument separation and big sound-stage.



Hey! I just recieved these from the tube store as you linked. Altho stupid as I am, I forgot to ask for match quads :s Will it work anyway or what do I got to do?


----------



## ozaudios

4 X Military spec tubes from one Manufacturer, all with the same date code will usually be very close in electrical values. The Little Dot MK VI+ has Auto-Biasing,( the amp will adjust the voltage fed to the tubes so that all the outputs match )  so small differences in electrical value of the tubes is no problem. Just put the 4 new tubes into the amp and switch it on as usual (with phones connected and volume at zero) and see what the value on the mA gauge is. The two gauges should have almost identical values. Keep the volume at lower levels for the first 30 minutes and do not worry if some crackles and popping can be heard, just the new tube burning in.


----------



## john57

Yes the two gauges should have almost identical values otherwise there is a problem and should immediately turn off the amp and investigate the cause. Yes, use the same tube version for the power tubes.


----------



## Androb

Cheers guys! Will test later


----------



## Androb

Was nothing to worry about  The dials are on exactly the same spot.


----------



## zenpunk

You can make sure they are match close enough by switching the middle tubes, then number tube 1 and 3. If the meter reading is the same in all cases, you are all good.


----------



## Androb

Ah ok, might do that someday  Cheers! I'm thankful for all the tips I can get


----------



## Androb

Haha my dad was a bit scared when the tubes started to crackle and such!


----------



## ozaudios

androb said:


> Ah cool
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Androb, if you are going to buy a Pro-ject Turntable then look around and ask questions...MAKE SURE YOU GET THE 16 VOLT AC MOTOR...... I got a Debut Carbon from the USA, and it has the 16 Volt AC motor which can be supplied from the Speedbox S,($120 US, 89 GBP) which supplies 16 Volt AC with a stability of 0.001%. The standard model Esprit Turntable will have a 15 Volt DC or an 18 Volt DC motor,and the Speedbox S will not work with that. The Speedbox S will work with any turntable with a 16 Volt AC motor. 
  
 You might want to order a turntable from USA and buy a Speedbox S locally so that it works with your local power supply (I am not sure what voltage etc is supplied in Sweden)
  

 *Technical specifications*
 *Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit (DC)*
 Speed
 33, 45 (manual speed change)
 Drive principle
 belt drive
 Platter
 300mm acrylic platter
 Mains bearing
 stainless steel
 Wow & flutter
 +/- 0,10%
 Speed drift
 +/- 0,80%

  

 *Technische Daten*
 *Pro-Ject Speed Box S*
 INPUT
 18V DC
 OUTPUT
 16 V AC / 190mA (up to 3W max)
 SPEED STABILITY
 +/- 0,001%

  
  
 The Speedbox S has speed stability 800 times better than the standard Esprit or Carbon.


----------



## ozaudios

Some research suggests that the 'SPEED STABILITY' is almost the same as 'WOW AND FLUTTER' , so the Speedbox S specifications are only 100 times better than the standard Esprit specifications, and not 800 times better like I stated in my last post. But even if the figures were only 10 times better I would pay an extra one or two hundred to get the model with the more stable speed.


----------



## migasson

Has anyone used a Little Dot MK VI+ with the LCD-X yet?


----------



## G600

Not yet, but you can send me your LCD-X and I'll try


----------



## migasson

g600 said:


> Not yet, but you can send me your LCD-X and I'll try


 
 No, bugger off!!!!!


----------



## G600




----------



## Androb

ozaudios said:


> Hi Androb, if you are going to buy a Pro-ject Turntable then look around and ask questions...MAKE SURE YOU GET THE 16 VOLT AC MOTOR...... I got a Debut Carbon from the USA, and it has the 16 Volt AC motor which can be supplied from the Speedbox S,($120 US, 89 GBP) which supplies 16 Volt AC with a stability of 0.001%. The standard model Esprit Turntable will have a 15 Volt DC or an 18 Volt DC motor,and the Speedbox S will not work with that. The Speedbox S will work with any turntable with a 16 Volt AC motor.
> 
> You might want to order a turntable from USA and buy a Speedbox S locally so that it works with your local power supply (I am not sure what voltage etc is supplied in Sweden)
> 
> ...



I will keep that in mind 
Although I were in a hifi store some weeks ago, and the guy behind the desk said they are producing a new debut carbon esprit, that will replace the old one. I think they made some changes to the motor, so I'll wait abit with the purchase. 

Dad also have like 4-5 TT I can use


----------



## Androb

migasson said:


> Has anyone used a Little Dot MK VI+ with the LCD-X yet?


Lcd-3 works fine so I guess it will work nicely aswell


----------



## ozaudios

Hi Karllin, you said 'I will be very interested in how that phono stage sounds, since I am definitely looking at getting into vinyl.'........I have been listening to the new phono-stage for 2 weeks now, and it is amazing, the best piece of audio equipment I have ever bought. It has brought my stereo to life. The set-up with the cheap Rega phono-stage was as warm and welcoming as an operating theatre. bland and clinical and void of life. After installing the Icon Audio PS1 Signature Edition (has the largest capacitors I have ever seen!) the sound is warm and organic, life like, just sounds so much like the performers are in the room with me, and a wonderful sound-stage. Symbols sound clear without being at all harsh, they sound just right. Bass is perfect. I understand why people are saying that this phono-stage is the new reference for phono-stages....... you can get better than this but for a lot more money.


----------



## G600

This afternoon I've replaced the 4 coupling caps and the 8 5W resistor.
 It was painful, but it's amazing right at first start.
  
 More details with ugly photos and a little report after some burn in.


----------



## zenpunk

Which caps did you go for? Looking forward to the pics.
 I might buy it back from you when you are done.


----------



## G600

I was leaning towards Audyn True Copper 0.33µF, but they are hard to find in stock. I finally bought 0.68 ones, probably overkill but the "bass early cutoff" is now gone. I've also swapped all 8 330 Ohm resistor for Kiwame carbon film.
  
 I'll let the capacitor burn a few hours before reporting.


----------



## john57

g600 said:


> I was leaning towards Audyn True Copper 0.33µF, but they are hard to find in stock. I finally bought 0.68 ones, probably overkill but the "bass early cutoff" is now gone. I've also swapped all 8 330 Ohm resistor for Kiwame carbon film.


 
  
 This?
  
 http://www.parts-express.com/audyn-true-copper-cap-033uf-630v-copper-foil-capacitor--027-152


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> I was leaning towards Audyn True Copper 0.33µF, but they are hard to find in stock. I finally bought 0.68 ones, probably overkill but the "bass early cutoff" is now gone. I've also swapped all 8 330 Ohm resistor for Kiwame carbon film.
> 
> I'll let the capacitor burn a few hours before reporting.


 
  
 With my 1.0uf suggestion you'd get a bit more bass.


----------



## G600

defqon said:


> With my 1.0uf suggestion you'd get a bit more bass.


 
 Maybe, but those 0.68 are huuuuge !
  
  


john57 said:


> This?
> 
> http://www.parts-express.com/audyn-true-copper-cap-033uf-630v-copper-foil-capacitor--027-152


 
 Exactly !


----------



## ozaudios

g600 said:


> This afternoon I've replaced the 4 coupling caps and the 8 5W resistor.
> It was painful, but it's amazing right at first start.
> 
> More details with ugly photos and a little report after some burn in.


 
 I am looking forward to seeing photos and getting information regarding the resistor upgrade. I have the Mundorf Supreme 0.22uF caps, and I would be happy to hear from experienced people who can tell me which resistors I could/should replace to get better performance,and which brands are recommended.


----------



## G600

Regarding the big resistor, I don't know.
 Intellectually upgrading from unknown cheap resistor to high end ones is great, personnally I don't even know if they are in the audio path.
 I removed them because one was brown, maybe overheat or badly made.


----------



## ozaudios

I found these large Jensen Capacitors in my phono-stage, they are 35mm in diameter and 55mm long. These are used by Icon Audio to upgrade amplifiers to their Signature Edition best quality products. 
  
 Regarding the resistors, I would like to see the photos when you have some so that I can see where they are. I might try to find out if they are in the audio path. I have a soldering iron and spare time and I would like to explore any upgrades that I could do to the Little Dot MK VI+.


----------



## G600

Here you've got one bad picture... but you can see the 4 gree Kiwame 5W 330 Ohm.
 There are four more at the PCB's back, parallel to the 4 blue Capacitor.
  
 I'm now looking for a perforated metal plate I can mount to close the amp, and mount some fan on it (with external PSU).


----------



## G600

I have to advise you even if you have spare time, it's on the tricky side and can be painful...
 I planned to recable the audio path, but no time left and quite fed-up...
 I don't think I'll do that soon.


----------



## ozaudios

Hi G600, thanks for thephotos and info. You said 'I'm now looking for a perforated metal plate I can mount to close the amp, and mount some fan on it (with external PSU).'
  
 I found old computer cases are good for metal sheet for odd jobs, most have holes for air-flow already there..... look for a local junk yard or recycling centre to get a suitable piece of sheet with holes, just trim to fit the amp. I also have an external power supply for the fan, it keeps the electrical noise out of the amp, a good idea.


----------



## ozaudios

I was thinking that a point to point soldered amplifier would be fun to build, then I looked at one, and the word 'fun' does not apply to it.


----------



## G600

Maybe not so fun, but quite a pleasure !
  
 Thanks for the idea of old PC plates.
 Actually I've found 5 minutes ago someone who can produce me a nice plate 100 % tailored on my measurements, and for just a few bucks.
 I'm going that way !


----------



## DefQon

Just don't use the bottom plate anymore. Discard it and align the capacitors straight down and make sure leads are heatshrinked as they are carrying B+ voltage. Install cones on the corners of the chassis and you're done. Same concept that the Bottlehead Crack (and other amp's) employ. More airflow due to the rised distance from the bottom.


----------



## G600

Yes but this way I can't put a fan...


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Yes but this way I can't put a fan...


 
  
 Don't need a fan.


----------



## G600

I'll think about that.
 The amp is working without a bottom plate or fan for 2 days (raised by some paper on corners), and after 90 min it starts to be very hot, a lot more than with the 2 80mm from Zenpunk.


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> I'll think about that.
> The amp is working without a bottom plate or fan for 2 days (raised by some paper on corners), and after 90 min it starts to be very hot, a lot more than with the 2 80mm from Zenpunk.


 
 How hot is hot?


----------



## G600

Nothing precise, but the top plate can't be touched more than 5 seconds, and the side plates start to get warm.
 Nothing scary but unusual here. Maybe some gentle air flow will save component's lifetime and save me some cold sweat 
  
 I'm thinking of a totally custom made plate based on this, with 35mm feet and a 140mm fan mounted outside of the amp, and powered by an external wall wart...


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Nothing precise, but the top plate can't be touched more than 5 seconds, and the side plates start to get warm.
> Nothing scary but unusual here. Maybe some gentle air flow will save component's lifetime and save me some cold sweat
> 
> I'm thinking of a totally custom made plate based on this, with 35mm feet and a 140mm fan mounted outside of the amp, and powered by an external wall wart...


 
  
 That doesn't sound right even without fans. Could be a short or bad solder. Most important thing of all are you taking measurements of the voltages? You should.


----------



## G600

Which voltages should I measure ?
 I'll also measure the temperature this afternoon.


----------



## zenpunk

Just get some Tung-sol 5998 (expensive but fantastic sonic upgrade) and the LD will  run a lot cooler - just about warm without fans.


----------



## Maxvla

MKVI gets pretty toasty with no fans on. I wouldn't say his temps are unusual. My fans died after several months and I used it for a few days while new ones were coming and I was worried something was going to melt.


----------



## Androb

zenpunk said:


> Just get some Tung-sol 5998 (expensive but fantastic sonic upgrade) and the LD will  run a lot cooler - just about warm without fans.



This! Before I upgraded the tubes mine got so hot aswell, maybe not burning myself, but really really hot. With different tubes the chassi is really cold instead.


----------



## G600

maxvla said:


> MKVI gets pretty toasty with no fans on. I wouldn't say his temps are unusual. My fans died after several months and I used it for a few days while new ones were coming and I was worried something was going to melt.


 
 That's exactly what I'm experiencing.


----------



## G600

Yep Zenpunk, but they are expensive and premium ones are tricky to find...
  
 I'll probably try them in the future, but now I'm saving for a DIY DAC (DDDAC 1794).


----------



## john57

Good 7236 tubes, boxy plates are hard to find in good shape and I never had good luck with them.


----------



## ozaudios

Hi G600, thanks very much for the photo of the replaced resistors. I took a good look at mine and there is one burnt brown on the right side, and the sound is just missing some volume and some magic on the right side..... so now I know why and can try to fix it. My amplifier is less than one year old, (still under warranty) but I do not want to send it all the way to China to get it fixed. I will have to do it myself or find a good technician in Australia.


----------



## ozaudios

So I just bought 8 new resistors (Kiwame 5W 330 ohm Resistors) on ebay, have to ship over from Italy. Do resistors have to be installed in a certain direction, or can they go any way around?
  
 Thanks again G600, you have been a great help to me by just showing a photo and telling us all what is going on with your Little Dot repair/upgrade.


----------



## G600

There is NO direction for resistor.
 Great stuff those Kiwame, nice buy. They smell quality, unlike those blue chinese failure.
  
 No problem for pointing, if I can help you I'll be glad to.
  
 Edit : I see your photos aren't better than mine


----------



## DefQon

maxvla said:


> MKVI gets pretty toasty with no fans on. I wouldn't say his temps are unusual. My fans died after several months and I used it for a few days while new ones were coming and I was worried something was going to melt.


 
 True they do get toasty but mine was fine without fans after mods, these mods (rebuilding half the amp, reducing components on the PCB) dropped B+ drastically and the temperature did get lowered. That was the last time I saw the amp in once piece. The circuitry and sound is stellar but the enclosure and PCB ventilation is extreme small and poor but alas at the expense of the $800 asking price of this amp. For the amount of tubes this size each running at over 200vdc I'd rather gone with P2P, easy troubleshooting and much more ventilation.
  


ozaudios said:


> So I just bought 8 new resistors (Kiwame 5W 330 ohm Resistors) on ebay, have to ship over from Italy. Do resistors have to be installed in a certain direction, or can they go any way around?
> 
> Thanks again G600, you have been a great help to me by just showing a photo and telling us all what is going on with your Little Dot repair/upgrade.


 
 Depends on where you are I can do it for you if you want, free of charge obviously but I have to check my schedule.
  
 Resistors have no polarity. 
  
 Not worth getting it check by a technician this is a good chance to learn a bit of DIY yourself just make sure you change and touch the resistors only, nothing else.
  
 The 5 watt blue metal film units are bog standard Chinese generics. In reality they are probably only rated for max 300vdc and about 3-4watts of heat disspitation. Rather poor for "power resistors".


----------



## G600

My VI+ starts at 40°C, and gains degree after degree : 90 minutes after startup it's 46°C.


----------



## ozaudios

My MK VI+ has a good fan and has never been run without the fan. The resistor that has burnt is not the result of the amplifier getting to hot, I believe it is because the resistors are cheap and nasty and 1 in every so many just fails and cooks itself. Nothing else is burnt, just one resistor. I will watch carefully to see if the new Kiwame Resistors have any problems with burning, but I suspect they will not burn.


----------



## john57

I had some resistors even in SS amps that looked a bit burned but still working and nearer been replaced.


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> My VI+ starts at 40°C, and gains degree after degree : 90 minutes after startup it's 46°C.


 
 46'C is nothing. My modded Darkvoice 336SE amp runs close to 60'C with all voltages to the tubes (plates, cathode) all within spec of the 6AS7G and 6SN7 datasheet. 
  


ozaudios said:


> My MK VI+ has a good fan and has never been run without the fan. The resistor that has burnt is not the result of the amplifier getting to hot.


 
 Believe it or not resistors that are looking burnt and brown is because of over current to what the base specifications can handle and heat. I know from experience that the VI+ has various little hot spots inside, so while your ambient temperature is down, you can touch the outside enclosure and not feel much direct hot heat those resistors and other components inside (especially squeezed in between tubes) can get hot as hell.
  


john57 said:


> I had some resistors even in SS amps that looked a bit burned but still working and nearer been replaced.


 
 Same here but since I have an OCD with opening up electronics and replacing with better parts hoping for a better sound increase lol I will always replace them.


----------



## ozaudios

Hi DefQon,
  
 Thank-you for both your offer to assist and your advise. As for assisting me, I am a resident of Canberra so I am a couple of thousand kilometres from Queensland, so it is most likely that I will be doing the repair myself. But as for your advise, thanks so much, I am glad to hear from an experienced and knowledgeable person. I will follow your advise and replace the 8 resistors and NOTHING else. Although I want to ask if there is any other thing I should check or assess while the circuit board is out of the unit? Do any other components get as hot as the resistors? And should I consider fitting a larger fan or somehow increasing the air-flow? I want to fix this amplifier and make it last, that is why I spent extra dollars and had Mundorf Capacitors fitted when the amp was built, to hopefully increase the sound quality, but mostly to make it last a long time. But here I am with a six month old amp that has a burnt resistor. I asked David at Little Dot if I could supply him with any other parts to upgrade the unit when it was being built, but he said the capacitors and silver wire was all that was needed. I would have been happy to send some resistors as well at the same time that I sent the capacitors and wire, but it is to late now.


----------



## thejr007

Hey guys looking for suggestions for ss amp...
  
 So my current set up is Senh Hd-650 balanced, Little Dot MK VIII SE and W4S Dac 2.
  
 Not to say that I'm not happy, I was just wondering how solid state would sound.  For my first set up I've been blown away and this will forever be the basis for my judgement in future upgrades.  I'm sure this up hill battle will go on for years and new plateaus will be set.
  
 So for my eyes are pointed to HeadAmp's GS-X MK2... 
  
 If anyone who has similar gear could let me know or suggest something else I'd be grateful.
  
 Also considering some ortho or even stax can's, though I haven't pulled the trigger on anything specific.
  
 What I'm looking for is the clearest sound with tight bass without fatigue.


----------



## Maxvla

Early in my head-fi career, I had HD600 with the MKVI which is pretty similar to your rig. I went through an IEM phase and a Stax phase, SR007 mk1 to be precise, but ended up with HD800s and am waiting for imminent delivery of my GS-X mk2 which I auditioned and thought was a perfect match. The GS-X is fantastic, but the wait to have one made is not. I would try to buy a used one while on the waiting list to have one made if you are wanting one.


----------



## kazcou

Is with the stock tubes ?


----------



## ozaudios

Hi,
  
 I need some advice. Inow have the 8 x 330 Ohm resistors for the Little Dot MK VI+. I have removed the base plate, the volume knob and nut and washer, and removed 8 Philips Head screws from the circuit board. But the circuit board is not wanting to move. It seems to be still stuck down in the middle section, right beside the burnt resistor. Have I gone blind and missed a couple of screws? Is there something else I need to do? Do I need to remove the transformer covers?
  
 I hope one of you people who have already disassembled a Little Dot MK VI+ can offer me some advice, and help me to get the circuit board out of the chassis. Thanks.


----------



## ozaudios

OK I was going blind, I found 2 more Phillips head screws (under the large capacitors) and now the circuit board is loose, able to move a few millimetres, but not enough to get it out. There seems to be a lot of wires attached to it and I am not sure how to get the board out.
  
 Can anyone offer me advice? Please.


----------



## ozaudios

OK, WIGGLE WIGGLE WIGGLE, OUT
  

 The sound is better than ever!!!!
  
 This is a worthwhile upgrade!!!
  
 It sounds SO SWEET. Prefect balance is back, super detailed, warm and wonderful.


----------



## G600

Well done.
 Releasing the PCB was the hardest part for me too.
  
 I'm now asking myself maybe we must change every single resistor in the amp... ?
  
 Coupling caps + 8 Kiwame is indeed an outstanding upgrade. I recommand everyone not to sell the amp without giving it a try : it'll reward you with something you don't even imagine.


----------



## ozaudios

I removed the 2 aluminium rings that usually surround the base of the driver tubes. This allows me to use my favourite driver tubes without using socket savers to get them to fit inside the aluminium rings. So the gold plated pins plug straight into the amplifier, which has to be better than going through the cheap nasty steel pins of the socket saver.
  
 Thanks G600 for the information about which resistors to replace, and for letting me know about the KIWAME resistors. They are a good quality product. They work well with the other parts in the Little Dot MK VI+.


----------



## G600

ozaudios said:


> I removed the 2 aluminium rings that usually surround the base of the driver tubes.


 
  
 Not a bad idea !
  
  Quote:
  


ozaudios said:


> Thanks G600 for the information about which resistors to replace, and for letting me know about the KIWAME resistors. They are a good quality product. They work well with the other parts in the Little Dot MK VI+.


 
  
 My pleasure. There are other brands of good resistor. But Kiwame are nicely built (carbon film inside ceramic) and relatievely inexpensive.
  
 I'll also check the other cheap metal film ilside the amp and maybe replace them aswell...
 Maybe tantalum for signal path...


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Maybe tantalum for signal path...


 
  
 Avoid tantalum like the plague. 
  
 The only resistors I would replace would be for power supply (i.e big 5 watt power resistors present in the amp) or the resistors next to the Philips BC axial's. 
  
 You can replace everything in the amp if you want but a waste of money which some areas have no gain.


----------



## G600

Ok.
 That's my problem : I don't know what is critical and what's not in the amp...


----------



## DefQon

g600 said:


> Ok.
> That's my problem : I don't know what is critical and what's not in the amp...


 
 Anything that is critical is usually in pairs or quads.


----------



## ozaudios

Everything went well for a couple of hours, the amp sounded better than ever....... then a loud crackling sound.......... then the gauges went to max, and the sound stopped, and the room filled with the smell of burnt electronics (magic smoke) and now the amplifier is dead!
  
 RIP LITTLE DOT MK VI+!
  
 I spent over $1000 on this amp, looked after it like a baby, and it is only 8 months old. The burnt resistor was affecting the sound quality and the balance, and that is entirely the fault of the design and builders of the amp. I did not do anything to burn a resistor. And now (because shipping to China with insurance costs hundreds of dollars, just shipping them a few capacitors cost me $100 in postage) I have tried to fix the burnt resistor myself, so the warranty is void, and now the amp is cooked. 
  
 So $1000 for the amp, $200 for the capacitors, $100 for postage of the capacitors to China.......... $1300 for an amplifier that lasted 8 months. Not at all good value for money. I see the main problem as being the heat issue, the circuit board enclosed in an aluminium chassis, very close to the tubes, getting very hot all the time. Nothing can cool the amp properly. 
  
 The sound this amp makes is amazing, but if it is cooked in less than a year it is not worth the cost. I wish I had waited a bit longer and bought a good British amplifier, with a local dealer and no need for me to pay hundreds of dollars for shipping to have anything repaired. I could not recommend this product to a friend. 
  
 I will look for a local electronics expert to diagnose the problem, see if I can get it fixed. Even that could cost me hundreds and the amp could just do the same again...... cook another component and fail to work again. 
  
 Now I want to build my own amplifier, point to point, and use better parts (not ten cent resistors) and design it to cool properly.


----------



## G600

Oh my god ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You mustn't stop here, just ask somebody to diagnose what's wrong !
 It may be a transformer issue or something like this ? Don't forget there are 2 fuses, maybe they took their duty ?


----------



## Androb

Ah what a shame!


----------



## baronbeehive

Really sorry to hear that, it's way above my pay grade but I certainly hope you manage to salvage something from the wreckage especially as it was sounding so promising. It can only get better from here......


----------



## ozaudios

Email sent to David at Little Dot......NO REPLY.
  
 I contacted a local repair shop that works on tube amplifiers, they NEED a circuit diagram to work on the amp.
  
 Looks like it is time to buy a WOO AUDIO WA22, at least their warranty is actually worth something.


----------



## DefQon

There is nobody else to blame but yourself due to the mods you performed yourself. Electronics don't die randomly, there is a sole reason for it.
  
 Sorry for your loss. 
  
 But if you post pictures of the PCB myself and the rest of the community here can help identify, mitigate and fix the problem your amp has experienced.
  
 Or go the expensive route and get it checked by a qualified tech.


----------



## john57

Woo amps are much easier to visualize and work on and they do not have a DC servo circuit added to it. Sorry for your loss.


----------



## DefQon

Woo stuff is all aesthetics, nothing special about the sound for the price.


----------



## ozaudios

defqon said:


> There is nobody else to blame but yourself due to the mods you performed yourself. Electronics don't die randomly, there is a sole reason for it.
> 
> Sorry for your loss.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree that this major failure can only be blamed on me, asI am not qualified to work on this amp. BUT, the modifications done before were done at the factory, with factory approved parts, and the resistor that burnt started to burn at 2 months old, before the amp was even burnt in. So the amp that cost me almost $1500.00 had a defect from the factory, has been running not properly balanced,since almost new, and to return it to the factory to be repaired would cost me over $500.00 in courier costs if I want it insured. So my point is that the factory warranty is worthless, the amp is built with cheap nasty ten cent resistors, and I can't find any shop that is willing to work on it.
  
 As for pictures of the PCB, there is nothing showing as obviously burnt. I have looked and looked with a magnifying glass and bright light. Although the upper-side of the circuit board is covered with a silver grey film/coating, looks almost burnt, but covers the entire circuit board. 
  
 So the bottom line is after replacing the resistors (the first ever modification done to this amp) it worked very well for a couple of hours, then failed totally. In that 2 hours I heard the amp was like it was when new. That sound (when new) only lasted for a few weeks before it started to degrade and the smell of slight burning started every time I used the amp. So this amp was defective from the factory, and a warranty that requires me to spend over $500.00 to make a claim is not really a real warranty. That is why I will buy my next amp from a trusted manufacturer that has real after sales service........not just a pretend warranty.


----------



## Maxvla

ozaudios said:


> Email sent to David at Little Dot......NO REPLY.
> 
> I contacted a local repair shop that works on tube amplifiers, they NEED a circuit diagram to work on the amp.
> 
> Looks like it is time to buy a WOO AUDIO WA22, at least their warranty is actually worth something.



Instead of Woo, I would pursue your previous comment about making an amp yourself. There are lots of DIY designs out there and you seem to be interested in modding and such. I say go that route.


----------



## ozaudios

maxvla said:


> Instead of Woo, I would pursue your previous comment about making an amp yourself. There are lots of DIY designs out there and you seem to be interested in modding and such. I say go that route.


 
 Thanks, can you or anyone else point me to some designs? I do not know where to look, who to trust, or which designs are good or bad. I would really like to build my own amp, but where do I start, where do I get a design/circuit diagram from?


----------



## Maxvla

Your complaints about shipping costs are unfounded. Their warranty is just as any other warranty is. You send your unit in to be repaired/replaced, they send you the repaired or replaced unit. You agreed to the shipping costs of their warranty when you bought the amp in the first place. I regret that the amp has been problematic and now died, but high shipping costs is not their fault, so stop blaming their 'pretend warranty'.

It's an expensive lesson learned about dealing with China-direct products. Cheap and usually works well, but if something goes wrong it's very expensive to get service. That's the risk-reward of China-direct products. An equivalent product in your neck of the woods would likely cost £1500 due to parts and especially labor costs. You pay more for having local access so that you don't have to pay those high shipping costs. In the end you still pay. The only way to avoid this is DIY. You become your own warranty.


----------



## Maxvla

ozaudios said:


> Thanks, can you or anyone else point me to some designs? I do not know where to look, who to trust, or which designs are good or bad. I would really like to build my own amp, but where do I start, where do I get a design/circuit diagram from?



Start here: http://www.head-fi.org/f/6/diy-do-it-yourself-discussions

and here: www.diyaudio.com


----------



## DefQon

Check for shorts. Failure doesn't necessarily mean physically burned out component. You need a DMM to measure components and do diode test on the diodes if they are borked. Have you checked the fuse?


----------



## ozaudios

OK, thanks for the advice. I have looked at the fuses, they look OK but I need to test them (I have seen fuses that look good but test as dead). 
  
 There was a very strong electrical burning smell! Sudden and very strong. So I expect to see a burnt component. My nose tells me that one of the resistors I replaced (at the edge of the board) or a small capacitor beside it is the source of the burning smell. I need a multi-meter.


----------



## DefQon

ozaudios said:


> OK, thanks for the advice. I have looked at the fuses, they look OK but I need to test them (I have seen fuses that look good but test as dead).
> 
> There was a very strong electrical burning smell! Sudden and very strong. So I expect to see a burnt component. My nose tells me that one of the resistors I replaced (at the edge of the board) or a small capacitor beside it is the source of the burning smell. I need a multi-meter.


 
 lol you don't have a DMM and you're modding? You got cojones man.
  
 Sounds like a short, check that resistor. Worse comes to worse you may need to measure each resistor or just the resistors you replaced with a DMM if no physical damage is sighted.
  
 You should turn the amp on again and quickly verify where the smoke or smell is coming from.
  
 If you replaced caps, you might've reversed polarity. Cap's do go boom but they will emit smoke and smell.
  
 Diodes could be blown if the short has tripped that far into the amp.


----------



## mab1376

defqon said:


> Woo stuff is all aesthetics, nothing special about the sound for the price.


 
  
 supposedly using a tube rectifier lowers the switching noise from the SS PSU.
  
 Not sure if i buy that since the difference probably isn't noticeable by human ears.
  
 But it sure does look pretty.


----------



## john57

mab1376 said:


> supposedly using a tube rectifier lowers the switching noise from the SS PSU.
> 
> Not sure if i buy that since the difference probably isn't noticeable by human ears.
> 
> But it sure does look pretty.


 
  tube rectifiers usually will have more of a voltage drop than SS rectifiers and draw more current. Different compatible rectifier tubes can change the sound a bit depending on the voltage drop of the tube.


----------



## [OverDrive]

Hello guys, 
 anyone has the wiring diagram of the little dot mk vi +? 
 thanks


----------



## ozaudios

I wish I had a wiring diagram...... I might have to make my own.
  
 So I got a DMM, tested the resistors that I installed and they all read 330 or 329 Ohms. I tested them from the opposite side of the board and got the same reading. I could see nothing wrong, so I put it all back together and tried it. 
  
 At first everything seemed good, the left gauge light up and all seemed normal. Then the Right gauge got power, the light went on and the needle went off the scale and the burning smell started.
  
 Can anyone suggest what I should test with the multi meter? Should I try other tubes? How do I test the transformers.... when no power is supplied to them I hope, what do I have to do? Can I take readings from the tube sockets? What can I test with the multi meter? I know I could test every component in the board and look for a problem, I just want to know if there is anything to look for first, or is it just the long and difficult job of testing every component on it's own?


----------



## DefQon

Do a diode test on the diodes or bridge rectifiers. Have you tried different sets of tubes to eliminate possiblity of a shorted tube?


----------



## baronbeehive

Just an observation but I had a similar experience to ozaudios with the right gauge going off the scale and a burning smell a while ago. As I had just cleaned some new tubes with deoxit I assumed, rightly or wrongly that the burning was coming from the deoxit heating up. Anyway I switched off straight away and left it a while for the deoxit to dry thoroughly and for the first few times I switched it back on I kept a close eye on the right meter and since then I have not had a similar experience so everything appears to be ok, but maybe I should take off the bottom and check just to be sure. Maybe ozaudio's experience is not so disastrous?


----------



## john57

When the right meter kicks in and does not closely match the left side, I turn off the amp intermediately because there is a problem. I think that I mention here before that I had a Bendix tube that was doing that even tho it tested okay on the tube tester.  I always check the right meter reading when it kicks in as a safety meassure.


----------



## richbass

How is LA Figaro 339 compared to this ?


----------



## DefQon

richbass said:


> How is LA Figaro 339 compared to this ?


 
  
 It doesn't compare.


----------



## richbass

defqon said:


> It doesn't compare.


 
 Why?


----------



## DefQon

richbass said:


> Why?


 
  
 The 339 is slow, congested and muddy compared to the VI+ in balanced mode regardless of tubes, SE mode the gap is smaller but the 339 is good as it is is euphonically coloured compared to the cleaner sounding VI+.


----------



## richbass

defqon said:


> The 339 is slow, congested and muddy compared to the VI+ in balanced mode regardless of tubes, SE mode the gap is smaller but the 339 is good as it is is euphonically coloured compared to the cleaner sounding VI+.


 

 Just what i was looking for. Thank you for posting your impressions.


----------



## Vandal

Hi,
  
 While this is an owners thread, and I am not an owner of either of these 2 amps, I have a couple of questions:
  
 1) Both amps (mk6+ and mkviii se) have both balanced and unbalanced (SE) outs. Do both outs have similar levels of performance? For example, for certain amps like some audio-gd creations, it is specifically mentioned that XLR output is 4x or 2x of the SE output. Is that the case with these 2 amps as well? I ask because I am considering an amp for SE use right now, with the future possibility of balanced
 2) mk6 has more brute force than mk viii se. While both amps will do a good job of driving say a Sennheiser HD650, will both also do an equally good job of driving say the Grado RS1i?
  
 Looking forward to your responses. Earlier I had almost confirmed David a mkV SS amp, but I read extensively that the HD650's do better on tubes, so here I am.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## G600

Definitely not. Those amps are made to be used balanced, the SE outputs are there only for convenience.
 On many VI they are noisy.
  
 Grado cans are both low impedance and high sensitivity as far as I know. They aren't meant to drive them (but they can).
 For your 650 they can both do the job with no problem, but I'm not sure which will be the best.


----------



## Androb

vandal said:


> Hi,
> 
> While this is an owners thread, and I am not an owner of either of these 2 amps, I have a couple of questions:
> 
> ...


 
 The mk6 is great with HD650's, but 650's is even better on an decent SS amp, say the Black cube from Lehmann. Haven't heard the LD SS amps tho.
  
 Balanced is a lot better than SE, giving more punch and overall performance! SE sounds boring when you compare it to the Balanced output.

 Never heard Grado on this so can't comment on that!


----------



## Maxvla

I wouldn't say a BCL is better than the MKVI+. Rather opposite, in my experience. I owned a MKVI (non +) with HD600s fully balanced and that was the best I've heard HD600s to date. I've used the HD600 with my Matrix M-Stage (a BCL clone) and the sound is nowhere near as good, though still decent. I did not compare them side by side, but HD600 on the MKVI was good enough for me to pass up quite a few more expensive options, including HD800s connected to badly matching amps (Beta22 and others), SR-007 connected to a BHSE (I later purchased a SR-007 and sold it very soon after), HE-60 connected to a few different DIY stat amps. The HD600 with the M-Stage is not something I would take over the previously mentioned combinations.


----------



## DefQon

The BCL is only good with 4 headphones I've tried. Sony MDR CD750-950, SA3000 and 5000 and CD3000.


----------



## Androb

maxvla said:


> I wouldn't say a BCL is better than the MKVI+. Rather opposite, in my experience. I owned a MKVI (non +) with HD600s fully balanced and that was the best I've heard HD600s to date. I've used the HD600 with my Matrix M-Stage (a BCL clone) and the sound is nowhere near as good, though still decent. I did not compare them side by side, but HD600 on the MKVI was good enough for me to pass up quite a few more expensive options, including HD800s connected to badly matching amps (Beta22 and others), SR-007 connected to a BHSE (I later purchased a SR-007 and sold it very soon after), HE-60 connected to a few different DIY stat amps. The HD600 with the M-Stage is not something I would take over the previously mentioned combinations.




Lcd-3 paired with mkvi+ and balanced IC and balanced cable can't even touch lcd-3 with BCL imo. Same with all other headphones I heard with it (which ain't that many tho). 
And 650 had more speed and punch to it with my BCL. Although now my BCL is a DIY copy by my dad, but I can't even imagine tho a tube amp beat it.

But I still like the mkvi+ and change between these two amps now and then.

Note that I'm also using Hegel hd20 as dac and that makes everything sound so much better than the stx dac for example.


----------



## Vandal

Lots of valuable inputs. There is a spanner in the works. Does anyone have any idea about the mk vii+? I emailed david and he said the mk vii+ is not hampered in any way by using the single ended as opposed to balanced. Of course out of the balanced sounded way better as confirmed by him


----------



## Androb

boombobby289 said:


> Need advice.
> Does MKIV work well with AK K550 and Beyer DT880 (32ohm)?


I guess you are better off with a non balanced amplifier for those phones, since neither of them can be balanced. And the SE jack is pretty noisy. Check out other little dot amps.


----------



## G600

They are also efficient cans, and don't quite need the MK VI power (He meant MK VI, not MK IV ??).
 But a better choice will be the VI with a balanced 880 (DIY or recabled) in 600 Ohm !


----------



## Androb

g600 said:


> They are also efficient cans, and don't quite need the MK VI power (He meant MK VI, not MK IV ??).
> But a better choice will be the VI with a balanced 880 (DIY or recabled) in 600 Ohm !


Oh didn't read properly. I assumed he meant mkvi since it's what this thread is about


----------



## boombobby289

androb said:


> I guess you are better off with a non balanced amplifier for those phones, since neither of them can be balanced. And the SE jack is pretty noisy. Check out other little dot amps.


 
 Are you saying the tube amps is not good for driving low impedance cans like AKG K550 or Beyer DT880 (32 ohm)?
 Any recommendation for tube amp to be used with low impedance cans?


----------



## Androb

boombobby289 said:


> Are you saying the tube amps is not good for driving low impedance cans like AKG K550 or Beyer DT880 (32 ohm)?
> Any recommendation for tube amp to be used with low impedance cans?


No but this amp is kinda only good for balanced headphones. The SE output with my w1000x for example, is really noisy.

The Little Dot MKIII works fine!


----------



## naimless

Sadly I've decieded to sell my mk6+ so if anybody in the UK is interested its listed in the for sale thread.


----------



## Androb

Bought some tubes from G600, digging the sound!


----------



## Taowolf51

I'm pretty interested in the MK VI+, it looks to be exactly what I want, a dynamic sounding (and very very pretty) high power tube amp. Does anyone have any experience with how it drives the LCD-2's? Those will be the main headphone I use with them (my only other decent headphone at the moment is the Denon D7000, which I would love to pair this amp with, but I doubt it will perform well).
  
 At the moment, I am driving the LCD-2's with an Emotiva XDA-2/Bottlehead Quickie/XPA-200 stack (speaker amp) and am pretty fond of the sound. However, it's a bit annoying hooking my headphones up to a speaker amp all the time (the amp also powers my main system), so I'm looking at a couple replacements, the VI+ among them. The other two are the Emotiva Mini-X and the Schiit Lyr. Does anyone have any experience with these two and how they compare to the VI+?
  
 I've heard both good and bad things about the stock tubes. Is buying new tubes for the amp a must right away? Or do the stock tubes do a good enough job? Any recommendations for affordable tubes?
  
 I've heard that unbalanced isn't the best choice for this amp, is it really such a big difference? I can build a balanced cable for my LCD-2's and I do have a balanced DAC (XDA-2), but the XDA-2 is already part of my main speaker system. Would the VI+ perform well enough with an unbalanced DAC?
  
 Also, are VI+'s on sale on the classifieds that often? I saw naimless's post, but sadly I'm in the US.


----------



## G600

In the competition you are listing, the VI+ is by far the best.
 Be sure to use a balanced source, and balanced headphone cables.
  
 The worst stock tubes are the 4 power tubes. Just buy NOS RCA 6AS7G or Svetlana equivalents, and be ready to rocket your LCD-2.
 That's what i'm using right now, and it sounds first class. This combo responds well to source / tube upgrades, so you're ready for the long term.
  
 The SE out is just for convenience, it sucks.
 And this amp isn't for sale very often...


----------



## elwappo99

taowolf51 said:


> I'm pretty interested in the MK VI+, it looks to be exactly what I want, a dynamic sounding (and very very pretty) high power tube amp. Does anyone have any experience with how it drives the LCD-2's? Those will be the main headphone I use with them (my only other decent headphone at the moment is the Denon D7000, which I would love to pair this amp with, but I doubt it will perform well).
> 
> At the moment, I am driving the LCD-2's with an Emotiva XDA-2/Bottlehead Quickie/XPA-200 stack (speaker amp) and am pretty fond of the sound. However, it's a bit annoying hooking my headphones up to a speaker amp all the time (the amp also powers my main system), so I'm looking at a couple replacements, the VI+ among them. The other two are the Emotiva Mini-X and the Schiit Lyr. Does anyone have any experience with these two and how they compare to the VI+?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had the MKVI+ and the Denon D7000. Surprisingly good combo. Really smooth sound for the D7000. 
  
 When I compared the MKVI_ to the emotiva mini-x with my HE-500 and HE-6, I found the emotiva to outperform in just about every category. Obviously, the MKVI+ was much better for dynamic headphones. Actually, I'd bet the MKVI+ would be a sweet pairing for the HD800.


----------



## Taowolf51

g600 said:


> In the competition you are listing, the VI+ is by far the best.
> Be sure to use a balanced source, and balanced headphone cables.
> 
> The worst stock tubes are the 4 power tubes. Just buy NOS RCA 6AS7G or Svetlana equivalents, and be ready to rocket your LCD-2.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info, I'll take a look at those tubes!
 Have you ever tried the Lyr with your LCD-2s?
  


elwappo99 said:


> I had the MKVI+ and the Denon D7000. Surprisingly good combo. Really smooth sound for the D7000.
> 
> When I compared the MKVI_ to the emotiva mini-x with my HE-500 and HE-6, I found the emotiva to outperform in just about every category. Obviously, the MKVI+ was much better for dynamic headphones. Actually, I'd bet the MKVI+ would be a sweet pairing for the HD800.


 
  
 Really? Not something I expected, but the D7000 seems to sound best out of sources it shouldn't.
  
 That's interesting, I would think that since the VI+ has a similar amount of power it should easily perform as well. Perhaps it's because the VI+ is OTL? Maybe the speaker amps can throw around a lot more current and that's what is really needed.
 I'll take a closer look at smaller-ish speaker amps. The two other speaker amps I've been interested in are the TBI Millenia MG3, and a fully refurbished and upgraded NAD 3020 (a friend of mine does amazing refurb jobs on those amps).
  
 Have you tried any other speaker amps with planars?


----------



## zenpunk

elwappo99 said:


> I had the MKVI+ and the Denon D7000. Surprisingly good combo. Really smooth sound for the D7000.
> 
> When I compared the MKVI_ to the emotiva mini-x with my HE-500 and HE-6, I found the emotiva to outperform in just about every category. Obviously, the MKVI+ was much better for dynamic headphones. Actually, I'd bet the MKVI+ would be a sweet pairing for the HD800.


 
 It just shows how subjective this hobby is. I stopped counting on how many headphone amps and receivers I tried the HE-6, including huge vintage Pioneer SX and Hifiman own EF6, and the MKVI+ was to those ears the best combo. But I will have to admit I never heard the Emotiva.


----------



## elwappo99

taowolf51 said:


> Really? Not something I expected, but the D7000 seems to sound best out of sources it shouldn't.
> 
> That's interesting, I would think that since the VI+ has a similar amount of power it should easily perform as well. Perhaps it's because the VI+ is OTL? Maybe the speaker amps can throw around a lot more current and that's what is really needed.
> I'll take a closer look at smaller-ish speaker amps. The two other speaker amps I've been interested in are the TBI Millenia MG3, and a fully refurbished and upgraded NAD 3020 (a friend of mine does amazing refurb jobs on those amps).
> ...


 
  
 The MKVI+ is a really stellar amplifier and it designed for low impedance headphones, so even though it's overkill in terms of power, it's a really smooth amp for the D7000. By far my favorite amp for them.
  
 I have tried out a ton of speaker amps for planars. I tried receivers, vintage amplifiers, tripaths, boutique audio companies, etc. I was the guinea pig of sorts for the emotiva, and prepro tried to get me to guinea pig for the Millenia amp. It looks super promising and has really good reviews (although, they are spread thin).
  


zenpunk said:


> It just shows how subjective this hobby is. I stopped counting on how many headphone amps and receivers I tried the HE-6, including huge vintage Pioneer SX and Hifiman own EF6, and the MKVI+ was to those ears the best combo. But I will have to admit I never heard the Emotiva.


 
  
 I did actually have a pioneer SX-990 that I compared with the MKVI+. I tried a lot of other amplifiers too. I thought the MKVI+ was really a stellar amplifier with orthos and outdid a lot of other amplifiers that I had for orthos. I found that it just didn't quite have the juice for the HE-6 which led me to searching for a speaker amp. When directly comparing, I thought they were really close, but the emotiva delivered some extra bass, which the HE-6 definitely needs. Some orthoholics suggest lack of bass is a sign of the HE-6 being underdriven.


----------



## zenpunk

I tried the SX-1980 and the sound was just stellar and it would be hard not to be impressed by the combo but personally I just couldn't listen to it all day. Too much of a good thing come to mind. Personally I preferred the spacious, detailed and ultra realistic presentation of the MKVI (with 5998 tubes).
 But I can easily imagine most people preferring the lusher, bass heavy presentation of the Pioneer.


----------



## Taowolf51

elwappo99 said:


> The MKVI+ is a really stellar amplifier and it designed for low impedance headphones, so even though it's overkill in terms of power, it's a really smooth amp for the D7000. By far my favorite amp for them.
> 
> I have tried out a ton of speaker amps for planars. I tried receivers, vintage amplifiers, tripaths, boutique audio companies, etc. I was the guinea pig of sorts for the emotiva, and prepro tried to get me to guinea pig for the Millenia amp. It looks super promising and has really good reviews (although, they are spread thin).


 
  
 That sounds pretty awesome. So did you find the speaker amps to be the best performers with planars? I wonder what speaker amps have that the multi watt headphone amps don't.
  
 When you tried the VI+ with the D7000, was it unbalanced, or did you modify the cables to be balanced? An amp that would work excellently with both of my major headphones is pretty alluring, but considering it would cost me about $800 with shipping compared to $220 for the Emotiva, it's a hard sell. My only worry with the Emo is the volume control (also it doesn't look that great, but eh). I really think a Mini-X with the XDA-2's resistor step ladder volume control would be the perfect headphone amp for planars.


----------



## elwappo99

taowolf51 said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > The MKVI+ is a really stellar amplifier and it designed for low impedance headphones, so even though it's overkill in terms of power, it's a really smooth amp for the D7000. By far my favorite amp for them.
> ...


 
  
 I could only use my MKVI+ balanced. The SE output on mine had the hum issue all of the other ones did. It was very prevalent in high sensitivity headphones, but dead quiet on balanced operation.
  
  
 When it came to the Hifiman HE-6, the only headphone amp I heard it on that could compare to speaker amps was the Liquid Glass. After hearing them on  speakers, headphone amps always seemed weak. 
  
 I mentioned to emotiva a few times that they should make something like that. Their response was usually something like we have a great headphone amplifier built into our DAC! Finally after the mini-x picked up more steam, I posted a thread over on their forums and their top guy said they would look into it. I'm always impressed with their gear (just bought their DC-1 DAC, which I'm really impressed by), so I'll be interested to see what they can put out!


----------



## Taowolf51

elwappo99 said:


> I could only use my MKVI+ balanced. The SE output on mine had the hum issue all of the other ones did. It was very prevalent in high sensitivity headphones, but dead quiet on balanced operation.
> 
> 
> When it came to the Hifiman HE-6, the only headphone amp I heard it on that could compare to speaker amps was the Liquid Glass. After hearing them on  speakers, headphone amps always seemed weak.
> ...


 
  
 Haha, the XDA-2 doesn't exactly have the most powerful headphone amp, nor is it desk friendly.
 I'm glad they're looking into it, Emotiva could really do some good for the headphone amp market.


----------



## yomomma1

Anyone tell me why my mk4 SE hums from left channel if knocked even slightly? It goes if switched off, cooled and switched on again but it's very annoying!


----------



## zenpunk

It is usually a bad idea to knock tube amps. I would stop doing it if I was you.


----------



## yomomma1

zenpunk said:


> It is usually a bad idea to knock tube amps. I would stop doing it if I was you.


 

 lol I was expecting that! It happens when I put my coffee cup down on my desk not when I actually touch the/knock the amp itself. ANY help out there? Yes I have tried contacting LD but because I bought from someone on here rather than direct, I was offered no advice/help. I'm not moaning about that, it's his prerogative. I just want to fix it.


----------



## G600

Swap the tubes to see if the hum goes the other side.
 It looks like a noisy tube to me.


----------



## yomomma1

Hmmm.... I think I may have done that but I shall try again. It's a real serious humming if not buzzing. Thanks for the info, I will try that asap and report back.


----------



## greenkiwi

Two questions.

1. Will the MK VI be fine with some LCD-XCs? Has anyone tried it with either the X or XC?

2. What is the best option for quieting down the fans. I had one that was in the original batch and the fans were really loud. LD sent me replacement fans but they are still louder than id like.


----------



## levinhatz

greenkiwi said:


> Two questions.
> 
> 1. Will the MK VI be fine with some LCD-XCs? Has anyone tried it with either the X or XC?


 
  
 Haven't personally tried it but I do own a MK VI and a pair of LCD-2 Rev-2s, and I love the combo. The MK VI is great for planar magnetic headphones, with great dynamics/energy. Find the right tube based on your preferred tonality, and you can't really go wrong. I'm dying to try the X on my MK VI though as I suspect that the combo is second to none.
  


greenkiwi said:


> 2. What is the best option for quieting down the fans. I had one that was in the original batch and the fans were really loud. LD sent me replacement fans but they are still louder than id like.


 
  
 Get yourself a pair of replacement fans- personally I got Noctua 80mm fans, and they're pretty darn quiet. Just make sure to get a fan cable Y splitter as there's just one fan input for the two fans.


----------



## Yitaro

Need you guys help. My current headphone is lcd-2 v.2 and my previous amps include woo audio wa6 and schiit mjolner. Sold my woo and replaced it with mjolner. Didn't like the ss sound from the mjolner. Impressive at first, but tiring after awhile. Sold the mjolner and now looking to get into tube amp. My list includes little dot mk6+, bottlehead s.e.x., and decware taboo mk3. How does the little dot stack up to these amps? I am looking for smooth tube sound with great soundstaging. It has to go well with lcd-2.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

some great amps but not all compatible with LCD 2s..


----------



## baronbeehive

yitaro said:


> Need you guys help. My current headphone is lcd-2 v.2 and my previous amps include woo audio wa6 and schiit mjolner. Sold my woo and replaced it with mjolner. Didn't like the ss sound from the mjolner. Impressive at first, but tiring after awhile. Sold the mjolner and now looking to get into tube amp. My list includes little dot mk6+, bottlehead s.e.x., and decware taboo mk3. How does the little dot stack up to these amps? I am looking for smooth tube sound with great soundstaging. It has to go well with lcd-2.


 
 The LD mkvi would have the smooth clear sound you are after. I haven't heard the Taboo but was looking at this myself for a while but my Miniwatt SET speaker amp has a similar sound to the Taboo SEP amp according to others notably outstanding transparency, lightning fast speed and sharper attack than the LD, but it would be less tubey sounding. Also the SEP amp is the one to get for pinpoint soundstage imaging and I haven't come across another amp which could better it for a sensible cost in my research. Also I would think it would pair well with the LCD2 because it would counteract the slightly darker tendency. That would be what I would go for if I had the money! But I'm happy with my LD.


----------



## Yitaro

baronbeehive said:


> The LD mkvi would have the smooth clear sound you are after. I haven't heard the Taboo but was looking at this myself for a while but my Miniwatt SET speaker amp has a similar sound to the Taboo SEP amp according to others notably outstanding transparency, lightning fast speed and sharper attack than the LD, but it would be less tubey sounding. Also the SEP amp is the one to get for pinpoint soundstage imaging and I haven't come across another amp which could better it for a sensible cost in my research. Also I would think it would pair well with the LCD2 because it would counteract the slightly darker tendency. That would be what I would go for if I had the money! But I'm happy with my LD.


Thank you baronbeehive. I am leaning towards the LD. From what I understand the lcd-2 work best with amp that has a lot of power. I think the LD has plenty of that. I am looking for the smooth sound of tube (Woo Audio WA6) and the bass control and attack of the solid state such as the mjolner. I am hoping the LD mk6+ will fit the bill.


----------



## baronbeehive

From what I can remember about previous contributors to this thread they have said the LD is better than the Woo, I think the WA6. There is more than enough power for the LD2, indeed there is ample for the HiFiMan HE6 so you will have no problems there. As you already have a bass heavy headphone I think the LD will control it well but some on this thread suggest modifying the LD if you are a real bass head. The leading edge on bass notes is fairly soft on the LD, compared to the Taboo which is reputed to have a very sharp attack, but for me it gives a good relaxing presentation overall. You may want to think about this. Personally if I want a more convincing bass I switch over to my speakers, but I would think the LD>LCD2 combo would work very well. I love it with my HiFiMan HE500's, which have a nice warm, smooth, clear, musical sound when paired with the LD.


----------



## aphroti

I just got my Little Dot setups(MKVIIISE MOD+DACIII+CDPIII) Yesterday, This combo is awesome!!! The MKVIIISE Mod by Sword_Yang definitely worth the money. The detail increased a lot more compare to a MKVIIISE.
 So do consider mods if you wanna buy a MKVIII!!!
 ZYZ


----------



## Androb

aphroti said:


> I just got my Little Dot setups(MKVIIISE MOD+DACIII+CDPIII) Yesterday, This combo is awesome!!! The MKVIIISE Mod by Sword_Yang definitely worth the money. The detail increased a lot more compare to a MKVIIISE.
> So do consider mods if you wanna buy a MKVIII!!!
> ZYZ


 
 Pictures please!


----------



## greenkiwi

What does he mod?  Just general improvements throughout?


----------



## aphroti

yes mods are based on the original amp. By sword_yang's idea the design of mk8 is already very good so the mods are focused on the "building material" of the amp. 
 I'll ask the detail of the mods but they are: change of tubes, caps and wires......just change much better material. (the original is not build this way is to the consideration of the cost).
 And the improvements are mainly on the details of the music....


----------



## greenkiwi

Cool. Thanks. Would be interesting to find out. I might be tempted to open mine up and upgrade some items.


----------



## Andykong

I have a Little Dog Mk6, old non "+" version, and I am using it to pair with Denon D7000, Alpha Dog and HD700, really happy with the setup so far.



I am still using the stock tube, and is planning to do some tube rolling in the near future, this is my first balanced tube amplifier, so I have some questions before I move on with that.

(1) In my past experience with push pull SE amp., changing the driver tube actually produce more change/improvement then rolling the power tube, especially on tonal balance. Can I assume the same on Mk6 as well?

(2) Will I get any real benefit on Matched-Quad over two matched pair for the power tube? 

(3) If I were to go for two matched pairs, I assume that will be one matched pair for two tubes in the left, and another matched pair for the tubes in the right?

Many thanks in advanced.


----------



## greenkiwi

Static and popping...
  
 I'm getting static in the left ear periodically, every 10-30 seconds.
  
 I also got one loud POP in might right ear.
  
 Any thoughts about what could be causing this?


----------



## levinhatz

greenkiwi said:


> Static and popping...
> 
> I'm getting static in the left ear periodically, every 10-30 seconds.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Possibly a loose connection in one of your cables. Try unplugging and plugging everything back in, particularly XLRs.


----------



## greenkiwi

Tried that. Nothing loose. 

The static doesn't sound like loose sort of static. 

And the pop was more like a bug zapper pop, though louder.


----------



## Maxvla

Tube going bad, perhaps.


----------



## Andykong

One of the problem with Little Dot Mk VI is the fan noise, I assume that is something that a lot of users will try to tackle with. I have replaced the fan tonight and I'll try to share my experience.

This is the original fan installed in the bottom of Mk6:



And I have replaced them with GELID Silent 8, an entry level computer DIY cooling fan that is widely available in Hong Kong computer arcade.




Air Flow (CFM): 20.72
Bearing: Hydro Dynamic Bearing
Connector: 3 Pin Molex
Current (A): 0.08
Dimensions (mm): 80 x 80 x 25
Fan Speed (RPM): 1600
Noise Level (dBA): 18

I spend about uS$10 for two fans and the screws to mount it onto the bottom plate of Mk6. The original fan is 20mm thick only, you'll need a new set of screws if you go for 25mm (thick) fans like me. The result is indeed amazing, I can't hear the fan noise unless I put my head up close to about 1 ft from the machine. I strongly recommend MK6 owners to roll up their sleeves and get this done. I am sure there are similar products around your computer supplies, look for products that measured at 20db or below if possible.

I have a few questions that I want to check out with other users who have done this before:

(1) The fans are connected to two 3-pin connectors on the main Mk6 board, it is marked clearly so if you look carefully, you won't miss it. The problem is the connector does not come with a housing like those in the PC mother board, as a result, you can plug it in with either side of the connectors, the attached photo will illustrated that, there is an arrow mark on the board but I am not sure what that means. Right now, I have go for the direction as shown on the left of the photo, if you are fluent in computer DIY, please tell us if the arrow mark has indicated a particular direction to plug in the connector



(2) The original fan used by Little Dot is a 80x80x20 fan with ball bearing. Ball bearing fan are good for reliability, but bad for the inevitable noise as there are little steel "balls" inside the drive shaft. 20mm is not a popular standard in 80cm computer cooling fan market, I have checked the space and confirmed that 25mm will fit as well. However after I install the fan and try to fit the bottom plate back to the machine, I noticed that one of the fan is touching the component ( the bigger capacitor?) on the main board (marked red on the photo)








Does you run into same problem? I can install all the screw alright, but seems a bit odd when I can feel the fan is definitely touching the capacitor.

(3) Just in case, the fans should be set to draw air from outside towards the main board, right?


----------



## baronbeehive

andykong said:


> I am still using the stock tube, and is planning to do some tube rolling in the near future, this is my first balanced tube amplifier, so I have some questions before I move on with that.
> 
> (1) In my past experience with push pull SE amp., changing the driver tube actually produce more change/improvement then rolling the power tube, especially on tonal balance. Can I assume the same on Mk6 as well?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Changing the driver tubes will give more improvement than changing power tubes as you said. Re: the answers to your other 2 questions check out the link as this comes up regularly.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/915


----------



## reiserFS

Did they ever fix the horrible power button? I remember mine breaking down after only two months and getting stuck.


----------



## greenkiwi

reiserfs said:


> Did they ever fix the horrible power button? I remember mine breaking down after only two months and getting stuck.


 
 Don't know... but mine had this issue too.  Purchased a pair of them and soldered them in... all better... for now.  They were quite cheap, so it wasn't too big a deal.


----------



## Silverstan

Just received my LD MK VIII SE to pair with my HD 800. Upgraded from LD MK III paired with HD650. really put a big smile on my face when i listen to it.
 Also ordered LD DAC III to paired with MK VIII SE. Overall is a huge step on upgrade for my desktop system. I'm happy with it.


----------



## Cheesebaron

I recently bought a used Little Dot MK VI+, which I am using with a pair of JVC DX1000. Sounds really great, but only when listening through the balanced output. Yeah, I get the famous humm noise through the SE output.
  
 I am driving it through an Audio-gd 10.32 through the balanced outputs through some Van Den Hul cables that it came with.
  
 The tubes I am using now are the Tung Sol 6SL7GT, black base, coated glass and black plate along with some Sylvana winged-C 6H13C, so far I am very pleased with it and how it sounds. I also got some other Tung Sol tubes, also 6SL7GT with brown bottom and glass coated black and a pair with clear glass and black base. Haven't tried the other tubes yet.
 I've been reading a bit through the thread and I saw that you can use 6F8G tubes in the amp with some adapters, how do they stack up against the tubes I have now?
  
 I've also tried cracking it open to see what is inside, and I am considering replacing those fans, with some Noctua fans I have laying around anyways, they are a lot quieter. One thing I noticed though, that there are a couple of those blue variable resistors inside. What are those for. As far as I know this amp has auto-bias, or am I wrong?
  
 Some pictures:


----------



## john57

cheesebaron said:


> I've also tried cracking it open to see what is inside, and I am considering replacing those fans, with some Noctua fans I have laying around anyways, they are a lot quieter. One thing I noticed though, that there are a couple of those blue variable resistors inside. What are those for. As far as I know this amp has auto-bias, or am I wrong?


 
 Those are pots to adjust the DC offset for the DC servo control. The only time you need to touch them is when you are replacing parts for the DC servo.


----------



## dizzyorange

I just bought a Little Dot MK VI and was wondering what they changed in the "+" version?  Do the two amps use the same tubes?


----------



## greenkiwi

I think that the + version might have had new fans, and also has single ended operation (though lots of people say that it hums with SE)


----------



## LajostheHun

Silly question, if I use the balanced input (line) from my DAC's balanced out, would the headphone amp's single ended output be active, or just the balanced one. Thanks.


----------



## Cheesebaron

Both are active, at least on my MKVI+


----------



## LajostheHun

Thanks, I figured, but better be sure.


----------



## Cheesebaron

Swapped the fans for Noctua R8's and put a couple of fan filters on  Can barely hear them spin.
  
 One other thing, has any of you found a better volume knob? The plastic one feels very cheap.
 Also do you think it would be possible to fit a stepped attenuator in the amp? I am thinking that they would be a bit bigger than a ALPS pot, which is similarly sized to the one sitting in it (the one with the motor).


----------



## john57

You would need a 4 gang stepped attenuator. The current pot in the LD is the same used in OPPO HA-1 amp.


----------



## Andykong

greenkiwi said:


> I think that the + version might have had new fans, and also has single ended operation (though lots of people say that it hums with SE)




I don't think LD changed the fan during the introduction of + version, if you see a new fan somewhere in the production, probably because the stock runs out and the new supply is a different model, a regular BOM adjustment instead of product design change.


----------



## elwappo99

dizzyorange said:


> I just bought a Little Dot MK VI and was wondering what they changed in the "+" version?  Do the two amps use the same tubes?


 
  
 The "+" version added the SE headphone output. 
  


lajosthehun said:


> Silly question, if I use the balanced input (line) from my DAC's balanced out, would the headphone amp's single ended output be active, or just the balanced one. Thanks.


 
  
 Yes. There is a bit of a difference between balanced headphone amplifiers and balanced (XLR) output from a DAC. The XLR output from a DAC is there to eliminate interference in the signal. Balanced amplification has to do with splitting the signals to be amplified.


----------



## LajostheHun

elwappo99 said:


> The "+" version added the SE headphone output.
> 
> 
> Yes. There is a bit of a difference between balanced headphone amplifiers and balanced (XLR) output from a DAC. The XLR output from a DAC is there to eliminate interference in the signal. Balanced amplification has to do with splitting the signals to be amplified.


 
 Thanks but my question and concern was answered earlier. I'm  aware of what a balanced amplifier topology is, I simply wanted to know if both outputs are active, since none of my headphones currently have balanced cables. I'm currently on the market to buy an amp that has both SE and balanced HP out, and has lots of output to power HPs that might be difficult drive, in case I I ever need it in the future. This model is my short list.


----------



## elwappo99

lajosthehun said:


> elwappo99 said:
> 
> 
> > The "+" version added the SE headphone output.
> ...


 
  
  
 Well I was hoping to add a bit of information regarding "balanced DACs" and "balanced amplifiers", since they mean different things. 
  
 I've owned a lot of balanced amplifiers, and the ones that have a SE output are usually some sort of compromise. The SE output never really sounds all that good, IMHO.


----------



## LajostheHun

I gotcha, I hope I wasn't rude. My Zdac from Parasound isn't a true balanced design,but I could still use the XLR outs with amps that accepts that output, but can still accommodate my current HPs for the time being with their SE HP out.


----------



## dizzyorange

Can someone recommend some tubes for me?  I'm looking for a sound that has: 
  
 - powerful bass
 - warm, sweet midrange with perhaps a bit of "girth" or "thickness"
 - not harsh, cold, or analytical
 - more euphonic than neutral
 - but not too laid-back or too smooth (I thought the Shuguang CV-181-Z tubes I tried recently were too smooth and laid-back).
  
 I purchased a second-hand Little Dot Mk VI that comes with Russian 6H13C for the output and Tung-sol 6SL7 GT for the driver tube.  If anyone has experience with these tubes, what do you think of them?


----------



## baronbeehive

Power tubes: for powerful bass Sylvania 6080 Gold brand, or Bendix 6080WB graphite plates or TungSol 5998, probably in that order, for midrange sweetness TS, Sylvania and Bendix in that order, all horrendously expensive now. Regarding driver tubes, I would stick to what you have, they are the ones I stick with for clarity and midrange sweetness, and they are still affordable. The bass is one of the best I think for punch and definition but it is not overly powerful, indeed the LD does not do overly powerful bass in which case you might still be alright if you have Audeze LCD2's, or such like. If you don't like a smooth sound you could try a 7F7 type such as Raytheon which have more of a live feel to the sound are very good value still. There are a lot of tubes out there but most I suspect would not fit your bill.


----------



## che15

Does anyone know where I can buy the 6sn7 or 6sl7 tube extenders so I could use my cv-181 on my little dot . I have not tried but other people said that their base is too big for the little dot driver tube openings . I have a first version of the MKVI+ .
Please send me a link if possible.
Thanks in advance


----------



## kokushu

I know there is a price difference but how is the little dot mk viii compare to liquid glass.  How good is the little dot compare to other tube rolling amp.  I just worry about it being chinese manufacture and all.


----------



## john57

kokushu said:


> I know there is a price difference but how is the little dot mk viii compare to liquid glass.  How good is the little dot compare to other tube rolling amp.  I just worry about it being chinese manufacture and all.


 
 I have heard liquid glass and it is a great hybrid amp and the SQ is close to the LD. If I have the money liquid glass would be a bit easier to repair and does not use fans.


----------



## greenkiwi

john57 said:


> I have heard liquid glass and it is a great hybrid amp and the SQ is close to the LD. If I have the money liquid glass would be a bit easier to repair and does not use fans.


 
 when you say close to LD, is it better, worse, or just different?  And/or not much difference one way or the other?  Thanks.


----------



## Andykong

kokushu said:


> I know there is a price difference but how is the little dot mk viii compare to liquid glass.  How good is the little dot compare to other tube rolling amp.  I just worry about it being chinese manufacture and all.




MK8 is not a tube rolling amp, you won't find any power tube replacement to play with, so all you can play with are the driver tube. If you are into that game, the Mk6+ probably is more fun, you get to play with 6080 and 6SL7 (6H9C, 5691, VT229, 6N9S, 6SU7 and ECC35, and a few more if you go for adapter) which easily cost you a lot more then the amp. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here


----------



## 2K9R56S

che15 said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy the 6sn7 or 6sl7 tube extenders so I could use my cv-181 on my little dot . I have not tried but other people said that their base is too big for the little dot driver tube openings . I have a first version of the MKVI+ .
> Please send me a link if possible.
> Thanks in advance


 
  
  
 I bought mine from Tube Monger for the exact same reason.  http://www.tubemonger.com/OCTAL_NOVIB_Socket_Saver_Vibration_Red_GE_OMRON_p/novib-octal%20ge-omron.htm
  
 Or his eBay auction:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCTAL-SOCKET-SAVER-NOVIB-NOS-GE-USA-OMRON-JAPAN-Vib-Red-Base-NOT-Made-in-China-/160879655126?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25752cb8d6


----------



## che15

2k9r56s said:


> I bought mine from Tube Monger for the exact same reason.  http://www.tubemonger.com/OCTAL_NOVIB_Socket_Saver_Vibration_Red_GE_OMRON_p/novib-octal%20ge-omron.htm
> 
> Or his eBay auction:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/OCTAL-SOCKET-SAVER-NOVIB-NOS-GE-USA-OMRON-JAPAN-Vib-Red-Base-NOT-Made-in-China-/160879655126?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item25752cb8d6


T
Thank u so much for the info, you know I tried the tubes on their own , and they make contact, seem snugged but not sure I should use like that. Did u try without the extender at all?


----------



## 2K9R56S

che15 said:


> T
> Thank u so much for the info, you know I tried the tubes on their own , and they make contact, seem snugged but not sure I should use like that. Did u try without the extender at all?


 
  
  
 I did.  They do make contact, and they did work.  I only ran them for about 10 minutes though.  I think the pins only go about halfway into the socket.  I'm probably overreacting, but I'd just prefer they make full contact.


----------



## yomomma1

My MK4 SE has developed a buzzing from left channel. Any thoughts? It starts after a few mins of use or if desktop is even slightly knocked (like putting coffee down!). I'm thinking I'll have to bite the bullet and take it in to be looked at?
  
 Also, I know someone mentioned the chances of blowing speakers when using LD's as a pre-amp. Anyone with thoughts on that?


----------



## baronbeehive

It's only a problem if you have a direct coupled power amp in which case a faulty tube iin the preamp could cause problems such as you mention.


----------



## marshallmole

Joining the club thanks to @dizzyorange !


----------



## Androb

marshallmole said:


> Joining the club thanks to @dizzyorange !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome! How does the T1 pair with the LD?
 Are you planning on recabling to balanced?


----------



## marshallmole

androb said:


> Awesome! How does the T1 pair with the LD?
> Are you planning on recabling to balanced?


 
 I have already recabled the T1s. Running balanced really helps open up the soundstage. 
 My previous amp is Bottlehead S.E.X. which is single ended, so I can't really tell if the benefit comes from balancing or the amp change. One thing I noticed is that male voice on the MKVI seems to have become smoother. Overall it definitely sounds better to a certain degree, which I can't confidently tell yet.


----------



## Androb

marshallmole said:


> I have already recabled the T1s. Running balanced really helps open up the soundstage.
> My previous amp is Bottlehead S.E.X. which is single ended, so I can't really tell if the benefit comes from balancing or the amp change. One thing I noticed is that male voice on the MKVI seems to have become smoother. Overall it definitely sounds better to a certain degree, which I can't confidently tell yet.


 
 Oh okay! I am a bit interested in T1 but atm it's a no-go for me as I don't want it recabled.


----------



## che15

U can just cut the plug and put a 4pin XLR connector on it. I would recommend a gold plated one. To smooth the highs a little bit. I heard the little dot with T1 in high gain sounds amazing!


----------



## G600

In low gain it sounds amazing aswell.


----------



## Poladise

Do you have to use a balanced dac to get the balanced output on the vi+?


----------



## G600

Not necessary, but the VI is meant to be balanced all the way.
 Average amp and overkill if you use it unbalanced.


----------



## Poladise

Cheers G600 I sent an email asking to purchase one about 6 hours ago. Would have been around 2pm there I think. Surprised I've had no response yet.


----------



## Poladise

Spoke too soon...


----------



## G600

Come on mate, even if we are in the 21th century, let people do their job, you will be answered by Sword Yang himself, and I'm sure he has some engineering job to do beside managing orders and mail !
 By the way, you are ordering some serious amp !
 If you have budget, ask for the slightly modified version (better resistor and better coupling caps), unless you can do it yourself like I did.


----------



## Poladise

lol reading that back it sounds unreasonable. I was just hoping my email hadnt got lost in spam or something, because I'm off on holiday tomorrow and had a feeling I might talk myself out of it while I'm away.
  
 Thanks for the heads up on the upgrade. I'd definitely want to go for that. How much extra cost is it?


----------



## G600

I'm afraid it's about 500 bucks, mainly because of the stupidly expensive Mundorf Silver gold oil capacitor.
  
 But you can for sure make a deal with Sword Yang, buying and sending yourself the capacitor and resistor of your taste and let his team mount them.  By the way don't forget there's limited space inside the amp, so some capacitor may not fit.
  
 Just saying, I went for Kiwame 5W resistor and Audyn true copper caps (you can try them, or Jensen copper, or vintage russian military caps, paper in oil). Just make sure they fit.
  
 These two upgrades put my VI+ up in the stratosphere


----------



## Andykong

poladise said:


> Cheers G600 I sent an email asking to purchase one about 6 hours ago. Would have been around 2pm there I think. Surprised I've had no response yet.




We have the very first dedicated HeadFi show ongoing right now in China, from 20th~21st, and Yang was busy pack up and setting up the booth since Thur, Yang will announced a flagship class A solid state amplifier at the show, so I am mot surprised that your email won't get responded until next week, stay tune for that.

These are the new products on displayed at the booth, class A headphone amp LD_X1on top, and LDP_500 power conditioner at bottom.


----------



## Maxvla

Those look great!


----------



## Roscoeiii

reiserfs said:


> Did they ever fix the horrible power button? I remember mine breaking down after only two months and getting stuck.




Did you just order the new power button from Little Dot?


----------



## Poladise

andykong said:


> Yang was busy pack up and setting up the booth since Thur, Yang will announced a flagship class A solid state amplifier at the show, so I am mot surprised that your email won't get responded until next week, stay tune for that.


 
  
 No David got back to me the same day.  All ordered now. Great guy to deal with too.


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> I'm afraid it's about 500 bucks, mainly because of the stupidly expensive Mundorf Silver gold oil capacitor.
> 
> But you can for sure make a deal with Sword Yang, buying and sending yourself the capacitor and resistor of your taste and let his team mount them.  By the way don't forget there's limited space inside the amp, so some capacitor may not fit.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you go for silver wiring as well? I just wondered what effect that had on the sound before I do the mods.


----------



## G600

No.
  
 I'm not a huge fan of pure silver, and rewiring the amp yourself is quite painful.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yeah, I tend to agree with you about that, that's why I asked, although I know some people swear by silver. Sounds like you've got a great improvement over stock sound anyway.


----------



## G600

Definitely.
 Just 8 resistor and 4 caps, and you reach another level.
 Far beyond my expectations, in fact.


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> Definitely.
> Just 8 resistor and 4 caps, and you reach another level.
> Far beyond my expectations, in fact.


 
 One step closer to modding the LD......., I've looked at a lot of caps and narrowed it down to the Audyn True Copper that you already have, and the Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oil and Supreme Silver/Gold in Oil. I would prefer the Mundorfs but since you can almost get a full set of Audyn's for the price of one Silver/Gold in Oil, it could be the Audyns. Looks like the combination of good detail and naturalness together with a bit of warmth would be a killer, just what I'm looking for to complement the HiFiMan sound.


----------



## G600

I haven't tested many, but you can't go wrong with the Audyn. They can be hard to source, that's the only drawback I see.
 What size you chose ? Beware, they are on the big side of things !
 They'll be installed by LD ?


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> I haven't tested many, but you can't go wrong with the Audyn. They can be hard to source, that's the only drawback I see.
> What size you chose ? Beware, they are on the big side of things !
> They'll be installed by LD ?


 
 I thought 0.22uF, 630V as thats close to the LD upgrade spec and I heard that the bass is quite strong on the True Copper anyway. What are yours? I also like the look of the Audyn Tri-Reference even cheaper. I've got a valve engineer to do the upgrade, it's not my thing. I haven't found out the size yet, do you need to leave the bottom plate off?


----------



## G600

No, that's the point : you have to choose a cap that fits without leaving the plate off.
 0.22 is probably fine, and it's cheap !
 I strongly recommand that you upgrade the 8*330 Ohm 5W resistor. Put a good carbon film there, like Kiwame.


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> No, that's the point : you have to choose a cap that fits without leaving the plate off.
> 0.22 is probably fine, and it's cheap !
> I strongly recommand that you upgrade the 8*330 Ohm 5W resistor. Put a good carbon film there, like Kiwame.


 
 I'll do that too...... the fact that they're cheap means going to that next level even sooner now. The cost of the mundorfs really made me think twice about the mods. I really don't know what to do about capacitance values - they will go up to 2,20uF, whether they fit or not, I'm assuming that will only affect the bass and I'm not a basshead..... or into death metal .....but maybe it will have other effects.
  
 I've had the LD for 6 years, so time for some more fun!!!


----------



## G600

Let's go for 0.22µF then, they fit !


----------



## baronbeehive

Copy that!


----------



## baronbeehive

g600 said:


> Let's go for 0.22µF then, they fit !


 
 I've gone for it..... the waiting begins!


----------



## G600




----------



## baronbeehive

Cheers G600, resistors have arrived, still waiting for the caps. I'm interested to see what difference carbon resistors make, I must say I'm sceptical especially as not all resistors are being replaced, let alone the vital ones. I'll get my techie man to replace the ones you have had done in the 2 groups of 4 in your previous diagram. Why did you do these by the way? I'm just hoping that nothing bad happens such as what happened to ozaudios, maybe he dislodged something trying to remove the PCB. (Wonder what happened to him, everything was going swimmingly then.....).
  
 Re the caps I was going to go up to 0.47uF but as the main reason was to save money cf the Mundorfs I didn't think it worth it to end up paying almost as much! Should still be a whole lotta fun.


----------



## G600

I replaced them because they were cheap chinese stuff.
 They overheat often (it happend to some headfiers), and one of mine was brown.
 Carbon film are higly regarded for tube amps, and Kiwames are "burn proof".
 Have them replaced, I'm positive you'll hear the difference.
  
 If your friend is a careful techie, nothing is going to happen, beside musical enhancement !


----------



## Poladise

I'm after a bit of advice guys. Received my new VI+ a few days ago. Yesterday I had some crackling on the left channel. Typical dying tube sound. Turned off the amp for a bit, powered back on and the right meter was at the usual 75-80, but the left meter was down to 40. There was no music in either channel though.
  
 Whichever side the no.1 power tube is seated will produce the 40 reading. Any combo of the 2,3,4 tubes on either side will show 75-80, so it looks like just one bad tube, but shouldnt the amp still play one channel if only one power tube is out?


----------



## Poladise

Am I late to the party with this amp? Well David helped me diagnose the problem. That 1 bad tube was stopping both sides from working. Running with no power tubes on the left channel let the right side work again and same result vice versa with good power tubes on the left and no power tubes inserted on the right channel.
  
 Cant wait to listen to it again. I'm used to disappointment with new amps, but this thing sounded awesome with only a few hours on it just using SE input, stock tubes and balanced out.


----------



## Androb

poladise said:


> Am I late to the party with this amp? Well David helped me diagnose the problem. That 1 bad tube was stopping both sides from working. Running with no power tubes on the left channel let the right side work again and same result vice versa with good power tubes on the left and no power tubes inserted on the right channel.
> 
> Cant wait to listen to it again. I'm used to disappointment with new amps, but this thing sounded awesome with only a few hours on it just using SE input, stock tubes and balanced out.


Balanced sounds alot better than SE!


----------



## Poladise

Yeh I bet. I'm thinking tubes first, then new balanced dac, then maybe after warranty runs out i'll go for the resistor and caps upgrade.


----------



## baronbeehive

poladise said:


> Am I late to the party with this amp? .......


 
  
 .......well we're on page 91. Looking at it one way, it's still generating a lot of interest which is great.
  


poladise said:


> Yeh I bet. I'm thinking tubes first, then new balanced dac, then maybe after warranty runs out i'll go for the resistor and caps upgrade.


 
  
 I waited 6 years for my upgrade...... and I'm still waiting for the caps to drop through the letter box so I can wait a bit longer I think!


----------



## baronbeehive

................sorry page 92.


----------



## greenkiwi

What is the easiest way to get a new set of tubes for the VI?  I currently have my original stock tubes and think that one might be having trouble.  Figure it might be easier to just get a whole new set then try to find the bad one.


----------



## Cheesebaron

I guess you could buy them on the Interwebz? Which ones do you suspect faulty?


----------



## Poladise

Does anyone know if the Psvane CV181-TII 6sn7 tubes work in the MK VI+? I read the Shuguang Treasure 6sn7 tubes dont work / fit.
 cheers


----------



## Cheesebaron

I do think they work. However, you will need to get a socket saver or riser to get them fit, as the base has a bigger diameter, at least on the Shuguang. I think there are posts about this earlier in the thread.


----------



## Poladise

Cool just found this from last year.
  
  
 Quote:


zenpunk said:


> The Treasure CV181 don't fit because of their larger base. The Psvane CV181 and Mullard do....


  
 I think Zenpunk has the T1s, I bet the T2s are the same base. I'll email & find out. Thanks


----------



## 2K9R56S

The CV181 tubes do fit and work by themselves, BUT...  It's a very snug fit and the pins aren't going all the way into the socket.  You'd be better off using a pair of socket savers with them.
  
 I also remember seeing a picture a while ago of someone removing the gold rings around each driver tube socket.  Though I don't know how much of the amp you'd have to disassemble to get to them.


----------



## Poladise

k thanks for the info. Before I got the amp I was intending on finding the most tubey and smooth tubes for the VI, but after hearing the stock 6n9p tube's overly soft, almost cloudy sound and rolled treble with the LC2s, now I looking for clarity and treble extension instead.


----------



## 2K9R56S

ozaudios said:


> I removed the 2 aluminium rings that usually surround the base of the driver tubes. This allows me to use my favourite driver tubes without using socket savers to get them to fit inside the aluminium rings. So the gold plated pins plug straight into the amplifier, which has to be better than going through the cheap nasty steel pins of the socket saver.
> 
> Thanks G600 for the information about which resistors to replace, and for letting me know about the KIWAME resistors. They are a good quality product. They work well with the other parts in the Little Dot MK VI+.


 
  
  
 Here it is.


----------



## Poladise

Nice. That'll be plan B if the Psvanes are an awkward fit. Might try some cheaper nos tubes first though.


----------



## john57

I wonder about the steps it takes to remove the motherboard in order to reach the other side of the motherboard to replace parts or the screws that holds the brass ring around the tubes. It seems to take a bit of work to make that happen.


----------



## baronbeehive

john57 said:


> I wonder about the steps it takes to remove the motherboard in order to reach the other side of the motherboard to replace parts or the screws that holds the brass ring around the tubes. It seems to take a bit of work to make that happen.


 
 Yes, I've just heard that mine was a job to remove as well, it seems that space is at a premium with the LD to fit everything in, also the ceramic valve holders are very tight and difficulty not to damage when removing the PCB. Incidently 2 of my 5W resistors where burnt as well although still functioning which probably explains the burning I noticed a while ago so people ought to be aware of this. I don't think I've had defective tubes so it could have been caused by tracking or such like.
  
 Regarding the caps, I've had a change of plan because the Audyn True Copper don't fit without removing the fans so I'm going to plan B, which means I have the 4 Audyn caps surplus to requirements. I don't want to fit an external fan as I want to keep the form factor of the amp as it is although there's nothing wrong with changing the fans, but I certainly don't want to do without active cooling, I think its a bit too risky.


----------



## G600

My amp is working flawlessly without any cooling, since it's waiting for a custom bottom I haven't even began.
 How far are you into the mods ?


----------



## baronbeehive

Resistors done mounted slightly above PCB so as to allow cooling between them and board. Old WIMA caps removed and PCB put back allowing the new caps to be put in without removing the PCB again. Although you many not get overheating problems the PCB is very susceptable to problems caused by heat and any warping could have deleterious effects so I'm not going to risk it. I did think of changing the fans but as I don't hear fan noise when I'm actually listening to music I'm not bothering with that. Regarding the caps I'm going to experiment with audiophile caps at different capacitance because that is the one thing that makes the biggest difference, up to a maximum of 1uF,  anything beyond that is probably overkill and very high values could introduce instability in the system I believe. If I don't get as big a difference as I want I may then splash out on Mundort Supreme Silver/Oil caps at twice the price of the Audyn's but still not as expensive as the Silver/Gold/Oil. Some say that the Silver/Oil is the best anyway.
  
 One slight problem...... if the improvement is dramatic I will have to upgrade the speaker system as well..... oh dear.


----------



## Poladise

baronbeehive said:


> Regarding the caps I'm going to experiment with audiophile caps at different capacitance because that is the one thing that makes the biggest difference, up to a maximum of 1uF,


 
  
 I may be doing the resistors & caps upgrade sooner than I planned. Do you know if the higher value caps affect bass presence overall or is it just a lower cut off you'll get?


----------



## G600

Not very much.
 I think the original value is well chosen, I went from 0.22 to 0.68µF, the bass presence is quite the same but much higher quality.


----------



## baronbeehive

That's interesting, I'm going to try .47uF soon and make up my mind what to do after that. Poladise, if you are interested in the Audyn True Copper caps, pm me. I would have liked to use these but as I said I'm not willing to change the fan assembly, but if you don't mind doing this and fitting an external fan the Audyn's would be a good choice given their price and performance they are right up there.


----------



## Poladise

Thanks baron, but my amp is getting upgraded at Little Dot, so it'll be the Mundorf Silver Gold Oil's going in. I asked for at least 0.33uf. LD only have 0.22uf in stock, but they're going to order some higher values in for me.


----------



## atistatic

Guys im a little dot MK VI+ usser ... has anyone get compared the Little dot MK VI+ with the DNA Stratus? cuz im in the journey of the new Tubbie AMP.


----------



## Svatopluk

Maybe spending money on a new amp would not be worth it. What kind of tubes and headphones are you using with you're MK6?
 The RCA 5691, Thomson 6080-WA combo is quite nice paired with the HD-800 or HE-560.


----------



## baronbeehive

Hey....... just got my amp back after some mods to the system as a whole as well as the caps and I can only say as well as the improved bass I'm hearing things I didn't hear before which surprised me. The caps are very cheap Ansar .47uF used in a lot of better quality audio and the increased capacitance does indeed improve the bass as well as well as quantity of bass. There's more punch, body and better layering. It sounds so much more real, more like you're there so it has plugged the gap that was there before. There's still that fantastic Little Dot sound but even better, more of a speaker type sound. Having said that I think the .47uF is as high as I would go because I don't want the bass to overpower the treble. Thats all on my first hearing so no burn in either. I plan to put some Mundort Supremes in eventually but I'm in no rush, I'm just enjoying it now, goosepimples and all......


----------



## che15

baronbeehive said:


> Hey....... just got my amp back after some mods to the system as a whole as well as the caps and I can only say as well as the improved bass I'm hearing things I didn't hear before which surprised me. The caps are very cheap Ansar .47uF used in a lot of better quality audio and the increased capacitance does indeed improve the bass as well as well as quantity of bass. There's more punch, body and better layering. It sounds so much more real, more like you're there so it has plugged the gap that was there before. There's still that fantastic Little Dot sound but even better, more of a speaker type sound. Having said that I think the .47uF is as high as I would go because I don't want the bass to overpower the treble. Thats all on my first hearing so no burn in either. I plan to put some Mundort Supremes in eventually but I'm in no rush, I'm just enjoying it now, goosepimples and all......



May I ask who did the mods for you?


----------



## Androb

I would like to know aswell. If the amp get that much better I would want some upgrades aswell


----------



## baronbeehive

My friendly neighbourhood electronics repair man, you need someone from the old school preferably who is into tube gear. I definately think this is a worthwhile mod because apart from anything else there is the comfort of knowing all the cheapo resistors have been replaced as G600 suggested, because two of mine were burnt. Also the original caps were fairly basic and just upgrading to standard audiophile grade, let alone the more expensive types, should bring about a good improvement. Now lets have a little listen.......


----------



## atistatic

svatopluk said:


> Maybe spending money on a new amp would not be worth it. What kind of tubes and headphones are you using with you're MK6?
> The RCA 5691, Thomson 6080-WA combo is quite nice paired with the HD-800 or HE-560.


 
 RCA 6as7g Gray Plated Quad Matched with 6sn7 GTA Sophia Electric. By the way ... anyone know if Little Dot MK-VI drive greatly well the hifiman HE-6?


----------



## baronbeehive

atistatic said:


> RCA 6as7g Gray Plated Quad Matched with 6sn7 GTA Sophia Electric. By the way ... anyone know if Little Dot MK-VI drive greatly well the hifiman HE-6?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## Androb

Never heard the he-6 but read somewhere that this amp don't drive it that well?


----------



## atistatic

androb said:


> Never heard the he-6 but read somewhere that this amp don't drive it that well?


 
 No, im asking cuz someone else say that the WA5 drive 99% to he-6, and the wa5 is a amp that deliver around 8wpc.


----------



## Androb

atistatic said:


> No, im asking cuz someone else say that the WA5 drive 99% to he-6, and the wa5 is a amp that deliver around 8wpc.



Alright. Well when I got this amp I had HE-6 in my mind aswell. I browsed head-fi and read that people said it isn't an ideal match.

Would be interesting to hear if it matches well tho, if someone could find out


----------



## greenkiwi

I have heard about people using small speaker amps with the HE-6.  I don't have the HE-6, so I'm not sure what it needs, other than hearing it needs gobs of power.


----------



## baronbeehive

greenkiwi said:


> I have heard about people using small speaker amps with the HE-6.  I don't have the HE-6, so I'm not sure what it needs, other than hearing it needs gobs of power.


 
 ........and that's just what the Little Dot has in spades...... many people on this thread have said that it's perfect for the HE6.


----------



## zenpunk

I am one of those who loved that LD MK6/HE-6 combo. I have tried many amps including huge vintage receiver, EF-6, Mojlnir and other mainstream speaker amps. The combination is great if you enjoy great micro details and imaging/headstage.
 The bass is a tiny little bit  loose but powerful and the mids thinner compared to more powerful option but I just loved that ultra-realistic/transparent reproduction.


----------



## baronbeehive

Hi Zenpunk, if we keep going we'll hit page 100 any day now. I don't think you modded the LD but the .47uF caps tightened up the bass a fraction and made it more realistic. I've been able to do a direct headphone/speaker comparison and the bass on the HE-500 comes out as good if not better now. What gear are you using now?


----------



## Androb

zenpunk said:


> I am one of those who loved that LD MK6/HE-6 combo. I have tried many amps including huge vintage receiver, EF-6, Mojlnir and other mainstream speaker amps. The combination is great if you enjoy great micro details and imaging/headstage.
> The bass is a tiny little bit  loose but powerful and the mids thinner compared to more powerful option but I just loved that ultra-realistic/transparent reproduction.


 
 Well that is nice to hear atleast!


----------



## EVOLVIST

You know, I've been going back and forth between wanting to buy the MK VI+ and the DNA Sonett 2, and I really can't make up my mind.
  
 Little Dot doesn't have any data on negative feedback as I can see, while DNA advertises zero (0) negative feedback, and excellent pairing with the HD800s.
  
 I want a really fast response and no overt colorization. Opinions seem to vary if this will be the case with the Little Dot MK VI+. The black Little Dot certainly is a nice looking piece of kit.
  
 So, what gives? As a preamp, do you think the Little Dot MK VI+ is for me and my HD800s, as opposed to the DNA Sonett 2 (or the Cary SLP 03 for that matter)?
  
 BTW, my chain would be running like this:
  
 DM+ -> Little Dot MK VI+ -> SPL Auditor -> HD800


----------



## greenkiwi

@EVOLVIST are you just trying to get tube sound into the mix?  Isn't the SPL auditor also a headphone amp?
  
 It would seem like the MK VI+ would be a huge overkill for your needs.


----------



## EVOLVIST

greenkiwi said:


> @EVOLVIST
> are you just trying to get tube sound into the mix?  Isn't the SPL auditor a headphone amp?
> 
> It would seem like the MK VI+ would be a huge overkill for your needs.




Could be overkill...but since both the MK VI and the MK VIII are both advertised as being preamps, as well, we're talking about the ability to add a tube stage, yes. But were also talking about having the ability to run DAC -> Preamp -> Amp -> Cans, all balanced (except for the SE into the Auditor), or, if the Auditor is not a good match, then I can always just go straight into the MK VIII SE, let's say, if I wish, either balanced or SE. See, it's the versitity of the balanced Little Dot lines that is the huge draw.

In theory, at least, I set the Auditor to unity gain, while using the volume of the MK VIII, adjusted to taste. This should impart the headphone amp with the sonic signature of the Little Dot, just as any preamp would. It says in the specs that there are 2x balanced preamp 3 pin XLR outputs. 

I mean, I've been looking into all sorts of balanced tube preamps, that actually claim preamp status, mind you, like the Cary SLP 03, the Jolida Fusion 3000, the YS-Audio A1 MK2, etc., but all of those, including the Sonett 2, are not near as versatile as the MK VIII that I now have my eye on.

I suppose it's a matter of tubes if I want them, with or without the Auditor, or even going unbalanced, as I have a curious little one tube DAC that I can run to the Little Dot RCA inputs and still have plenty of power to drive my HD800s, according to the specs. Besides, with the price of the MK VIII, I could have some custom upgrades as some here have done, with money left over to tube roll, for the price of some of the other aforementioned kit.

So, it makes sense to me...but just because it makes sense to me doesn't mean it makes sense...thus why I'm eliciting other opinions. All said, I might take the plunge and have a piece of tube gear gathering dust (like THAT'S never happened to anyone in here before). One the flip side I might be on to something here.

Show me a simple tube buffer, though, that's all balanced with 6H30 super tubes and I'm all ears.


----------



## baronbeehive

greenkiwi said:


> @EVOLVIST are you just trying to get tube sound into the mix?  Isn't the SPL auditor also a headphone amp?
> 
> It would seem like the MK VI+ would be a huge overkill for your needs.


 
 I agree, I've found no need to bulk out the sound. I wouldn't go down this route myself but I see what you are trying to do. The Decware amp/preamp gear springs to mind, but have you thought about getting a hybrid tubes/SS amp, I believe Bada do excellent hybrid amps, for example, and I think they are customisable as well, if you want the advantages of both. I've found the Mkvi+ to be quick sounding but the leading edge isn't as sharp as for example SET amps either. A problem could be that if you do get a very quick response tube amp you may not gain any additional advantages of tubes because the sound will be much more SS. Furthermore you can get SS amps with a relaxed musical presentation and therefore no tubes would be required. Hope thats of interest.


----------



## Pirakaphile

In the very very far future, when I've got the Schiit Gungnir to output balanced audio, and probably after I get the Mjolnir as well, I may look to the Little Dot MK VI+ to get some tube sound into my balanced setup while still retaining gobs of power like what the Mjolnir boasts. Good fecking god the MK VI is sexy, probably one of the sexiest amps I've ever seen pictures of and I really really want it. Oh, and I also hear it sounds pretty good.


----------



## baronbeehive

pirakaphile said:


> In the very very far future, when I've got the Schiit Gungnir to output balanced audio, and probably after I get the Mjolnir as well, I may look to the Little Dot MK VI+ to get some tube sound into my balanced setup while still retaining gobs of power like what the Mjolnir boasts. Good fecking god the MK VI is sexy, probably one of the sexiest amps I've ever seen pictures of and I really really want it. Oh, and I also hear it sounds pretty good.


 
  
 Admit it, you and Evolvist both want a tube AND a SS amp....... do you want black or silver?? This hobby of ours has a lot to answer for.........


----------



## Pirakaphile

baronbeehive said:


> Admit it, you and Evolvist both want a tube AND a SS amp....... do you want black or silver?? This hobby of ours has a lot to answer for.........


 
 Maybe.. I'm not an audiophile or anything, I swear! I can quit anytime I want! And I'd want it in silver to match with the Schiit.


----------



## greenkiwi

@EVOLVIST One note, I think that people had said that they had some extra noise in the SE path.  I don't have the + with SE, so I can't really comment on that.  I do know that when I tried to use it as a preamp in my balanced system going to speakers, it did raise the noise floor dramatically.  So I pulled it out and just use it for headphones.


----------



## EVOLVIST

greenkiwi said:


> @EVOLVIST
> One note, I think that people had said that they had some extra noise in the SE path.  I don't have the + with SE, so I can't really comment on that.  I do know that when I tried to use it as a preamp in my balanced system going to speakers, it did raise the noise floor dramatically.  So I pulled it out and just use it for headphones.




Very interesting. Thank you for the comments. I'm currently looking at balanced output DACs right now, with switchable solid state and tube outs. Just flip the switch and you're either running two 6922 tubes in the preamp, or SS. Interestingly enough, the unit that I'm also peepin' let's you choose between two different DAC chipsets, as well. So, I'll let you know if I become a proud Little Dot owner.


----------



## baronbeehive

evolvist said:


> Very interesting. Thank you for the comments. I'm currently looking at balanced output DACs right now, with switchable solid state and tube outs. Just flip the switch and you're either running two 6922 tubes in the preamp, or SS. Interestingly enough, the unit that I'm also peepin' let's you choose between two different DAC chipsets, as well. So, I'll let you know if I become a proud Little Dot owner.


 
 I didn't have a problem with my 87db speakers with the mkvi+, the sound was fantastic. Sounds like that DAC will give you many interesting options.


----------



## jzono1

I still haven't managed to get an amp for my lovely T1s, it's been a long while since I first started looking at the mk8se. Right now I'm using the okay but less than ideal headphone output of a focusrite scarlett 6i6. Sometimes I miss my mk3.
  
 I'm wondering about it's sound signature. I quote: "The Little Dot MK VIII SE's sound signature is designed to be provide a reference-level of transparency with a touch of tube warmth and tonal richness." How correct is that description? How's the mix of 2.nd to 3.rd harmonic distortion? Does 3.rd harmonics show up strong as expected in a balanced circuit?
  
 Since last time I thought about getting a headphone amp I've bought a reasonable pair of speakers (xtz 99.36 mk2) and a very nice amp. (First Watt J2.) For my headphones I want an amp with similiar sound signature. I'm not sure anymore if a mk8se is the right amp for me.


----------



## atistatic

Anyone can explain me how can deliver 1w per channel at 50 ohm and 5w at 120ohm ... cuz dat told me DavidZheZhe.


----------



## martybu141

I've been using a little dot MK IV for about three years now and love it but I wonder if I can do better. The current chain is:

record player - RCA - phono preamp - RCA - Little Dot MKIV - RCA - KRK10(active monitors) or Grado 225

My question is if I upgraded to a Little Dot MK VI and switched to balanced lines out to the KRKs, would there be a noticeable difference in sound quality? The KRKs can receive a balanced line or RCA so I can run either one out from the MK VI if it helps but I already have RCAs. Also would there be a difference in quality using the Grados?


----------



## baronbeehive

I had a Little Dot mkivse also and I loved the sound as did anyone who heard it. The main reason for getting the mkvi, or any balanced amp is to run headphones balanced to get the extra soundstage and more dynamic bass to improve on the limitations of headphone operation, in contrast to speakers where it is much easier to get a more realistic soundstage and so on. Also balanced mode reduces noise in the signal. That would be your main goal. Of course you can also run both wires to your speakers but from what I've heard that does have variable effects with speakers, although I haven't done that myself. Sometimes people report improvements, sometimes the opposite. So it's difficult to predict the effect on listening to your speakers without trying it.
  
 Regarding SQ you would still get the Little Dot house sound, clear, smooth with a hint of tubes but different tubes give different options. Personally I think I have got all the things I liked about the mkiv but also gained a bit on detail and richness given the tubes I'm running. With Grado cans you might have to be careful, from what I remember they are pretty sensitive and if that's the case they will pick up a hum from the amp if you run it single ended because the amp was designed to run in balanced mode. If you do run balanced you will have no problems.
  
 So I would say if your primary listening is headphones it would be worth it otherwise it you might need to think more about it.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

the Mk9 may well be that improvement you want without the need for the extra power / balanced operations.


----------



## Poladise

atistatic said:


> Anyone can explain me how can deliver 1w per channel at 50 ohm and 5w at 120ohm ... cuz dat told me DavidZheZhe.


 
  
 Yeh, I read that too. You might have to ask him to elaborate. Guess no one knows the reason on here.


----------



## jzono1

poladise said:


> Yeh, I read that too. You might have to ask him to elaborate. Guess no one knows the reason on here.


 
 It's not that strange. Some amp topologies get lower output with lower impedance. Same thing happens to regular amps too.
  
 Doing OTL tube amps is easier with a reasonably high impedance load (say 300-600) than with speakers (just look at regular tube amps, there's a reason why most have output transformers.)
  
 ---
  
 So... nobody got any input on my question above?
  
 Also, what extras should I consider if I order a new mk8se? I saw something about someone supplying "better" caps and having them fitted during assembly. Do I want that / what would it cost me for a reasonable upgrade?


----------



## baronbeehive

Nobody in this thread, despite its title, to my knowledge has had a mkviii, and I don't know about the other gear you mention so cannot comment unfortunately to your question. I don't know about the cost of the factory upgrade but the caps alone would be £140 or more depending on the spec.


----------



## martybu141

Thanks for the response this is both good and bad news I was hoping I would be informed of a massive upgrade in sound from the jump to the 6. The good news is no change is needed, yet... My phono pre is not balanced so no need to make the change. During my research I found out they are making a x model that has a built in converter to change the signal to balanced, unfortunately that model looks to be solid state, maybe an 11 is in the works that will use tubes. Fingers crossed


----------



## atistatic

jzono1 said:


> It's not that strange. Some amp topologies get lower output with lower impedance. Same thing happens to regular amps too.
> 
> Doing OTL tube amps is easier with a reasonably high impedance load (say 300-600) than with speakers (just look at regular tube amps, there's a reason why most have output transformers.)
> 
> ...


 
 lol ... so how they expect can drive well a HE-6 Headphone with 1W per channel.


----------



## atistatic

Anyone know if the mk vi need quad matched or not?


----------



## Androb

atistatic said:


> Anyone know if the mk vi need quad matched or not?


 
 It's good but I don't think you need it. The amp autoadjusts as I understand so if the tubes doesn't have a major difference you are good to go.


----------



## atistatic

So .. do you mean that the sound quality don't improve with the power tubes?


----------



## Karllin

Matched are best. At least match the two right and two left, and the two 6SU7.

I recommend getting a quad of Chattum 5998 and a pair of 6SU7GTY(brown base, black glass, short) Cost you about $360 for all of them and you will be set . Don't do what I did and go crazy buying Western electric. The Chattums will be great! And the 5998 is probably the best look, too.


----------



## Karllin

This is mine. I have never regretted changing the stock tubes. When these die, I'll buy another 5998, as the Western Electric are a pain to find and cost more than the amp.


----------



## Karllin

Here is a short thread that gets to the point, there are many other threads that discuss the details of matching and bias adjustment. mKVI is auto bias.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/366521/question-about-matching-tubes


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> Matched are best. At least match the two right and two left, and the two 6SU7.
> 
> I recommend getting a quad of Chattum 5998 and a pair of 6SU7GTY(brown base, black glass, short) Cost you about $360 for all of them and you will be set . Don't do what I did and go crazy buying Western electric. The Chattums will be great! And the 5998 is probably the best look, too.


 
 where can i get quad of chattum 5998?
  
 Quote:


karllin said:


> Here is a short thread that gets to the point, there are many other threads that discuss the details of matching and bias adjustment. mKVI is auto bias.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/366521/question-about-matching-tubes



  
 What does mean that is "Auto bias" ?


----------



## greenkiwi

Those look mighty cool.

I need to get a tube tester. Does anyone have recommendations?


----------



## Androb

> What does mean that is "Auto bias" ?


 
 I think it has something with that it's adjusting the voltage so the tubes match up.

 Not all amps got that.


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> Here is a short thread that gets to the point, there are many other threads that discuss the details of matching and bias adjustment. mKVI is auto bias.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/366521/question-about-matching-tubes


 
 Karllin can u bring us where can we buy the chatam 5998 ... cuz in tejas tube store ask 180 per tube ... that is insane, 180 dollars per tube is tear 1 tube price.


----------



## greenkiwi

Does the mk vi sound fairly different with different tubes?


----------



## Karllin

Vacuumtubes.net guys name is Dale. He should have plenty. Not sure what they are charging now, but it won't be crazy.

As, I mentioned before, getting away from the stock tubes brings the VI to a new level. With the 5998, the look alone makes it better.

I drive HE-6, HD800, LCD-3 with no problems. I don't listen at volumes that will damage my hearing. Do that and it won't matter what cans and amp you own, you'll not be able to hear the differences anyway. Listen at reasonable volumes and enjoy the music.

Don't forget, the Little Dot has a gain switch if you need it, but I have left mine on low gain.


----------



## Karllin

Go here and read. You will know everything you need to know about tubes and bias. Nice bit of knowledge. However, the Little Dot MK VI does not need setting. If you use the right tubes it will keep them automatically set where they need to be. Many newer amps do. Get into the high end and older stuff, you need to set it. But guy that buy those amps want to get there hands on it...it's like buying an old Harley. Half the fun is fine tuning it.
Article on bias and tubes 
https://tubedepot.com/pages/bias-point


----------



## SoundEngineer

Hi,
  
 I just got into Tube Headphone amp about two months ago.  I bought a LDMKII and fell in love with the tube amp sound quality.  Then I spent many nights researching and learning about LDMKIVSE.  I decided to move up to MKIVSE and do the power supply mod to run 6AS7 power tube and use C3G"S" for driver tube.  Then I thought getting a LDMK9 would cost about the same amount of money so I change my mind and was going to pull the trigger on MK9.  Then I saw a classified ad of MK VI+ for less than the price of MK9.  So I jumped on it and now I am a very happy owner of LD MK VI+.  I just love everything about his amp.  I really enjoyed listening to music with MKII but this MKVI+ is just so rich and silky smooth.  I am not good at describing my feelings with words.
  
 The person who sold this to me barely had it for few months and took real good care of it.  I practically got a brand new amp for half the cost.  Everything work fine except the bearing in one of the cooling fan was already going out.  It was making a very low grinding noise.  So I decided to change out the fan with one of those 15mm thick quite fans.  But then idea came to my head.  I had a laptop cooler that wasn't getting used and was just sitting in my closet.  I took the bottom cover off on MK VI+ and just set it on top of the laptop cooler and it was perfect.  No air escaped and the twin 120mm fan running at 1000rpm was blowing air into the wider area inside the amp.
  
 Here are some pictures I took:

  

  

  
 I guess you can use any kind of laptop cooler but this particular one has the temperature sensor so you know how hot inside the amp is.  It has two speed: normal and turbo mode.
 The model name is Thermaltake Massive TM. I think the TM stands for Temperature Monitor.  It is silver on the side so I used electrical tape to cover the silver part to black it out.

  
  
 Then I used the 3/8 inch weather strip on the edge of the case because it was sliding around little bit and I wanted to give it extra shock absorption and airtight seal.

  

  
 This mod was so easy to do.  No cutting, gluing, bending, nailing, screwing, or drilling needed.  Just remove the cover on the bottom and set it on top of the laptop cooler.
 I just wanted to share this with you guys because I thought maybe there are some MK VI or MK VIII owners who might be looking to replace their fan.


----------



## Androb

That is a smart idea!
 And nice pictures


----------



## greenkiwi

I really like that idea. My biggest issue is the noise from the fans.

And a popping I the right ear every so often


----------



## Androb

Dropping off real quick from the cooling idea, does anyone have a nice site where I can order tubes from?
 Interested in trying some more. 
 I would like to know what tubes you guys prefer that have tuberolled, preferably not the most expensive ones!


----------



## Karllin

The answer to your where to buy is just above your post on the same page. Think it is post 1432. Best to call a few dealers and don't forget to check out Head-Fi's for sale forum. Ebay is a source, but be careful there.


----------



## Androb

karllin said:


> The answer to your where to buy is just above your post on the same page. Think it is post 1432. Best to call a few dealers and don't forget to check out Head-Fi's for sale forum. Ebay is a source, but be careful there.


 
 Doh!! Haha, thanks! I been browsing the head-fi sale forum now but not found any interesting so far. Thing is I live in Sweden and I don't know any dealers I can call really


----------



## Androb

Btw any power tubes you can recommend from the tubedepot?


----------



## Karllin

I have never bought from tubedepot, so not sure. I mentioned vacuumtubes.net. They can ship to Sweden. There must be some good shops in Sweden and certainly somewhere in the EU. Maybe someone from a Europe will reply. Try google. Good luck. As I mentioned, I like the TungSol 5998. Just be sure to buy from a reputable dealer. There are many bad tubes. Either used to the brink of death, counterfeit, cheap tubes relabeled as rare tubes...etc... Buy from someone that you can return to if the tubes are no good.


----------



## Oskari

androb said:


> Thing is I live in Sweden and I don't know any dealers I can call really


 
  
 Here is something to get you started.
  

http://www.radiotubeshop.com/ (Sweden)
http://www.vacuum-tube-shop.com/ (Finland)
http://www.pyndtshop.dk/ (Denmark)
http://www.langrex.co.uk/ (UK)
  
 But do note that 6AS7Gs were never as ubiquitous in Europe as they were in US.


----------



## atistatic

oskari said:


> Here is something to get you started.
> 
> 
> http://www.radiotubeshop.com/ (Sweden)
> ...


 
 Ty for share.


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> Matched are best. At least match the two right and two left, and the two 6SU7.
> 
> I recommend getting a quad of Chattum 5998 and a pair of 6SU7GTY(brown base, black glass, short) Cost you about $360 for all of them and you will be set . Don't do what I did and go crazy buying Western electric. The Chattums will be great! And the 5998 is probably the best look, too.


 
 Karllin, i would want that test 6sn7(GTA Equivalent) of sophia electric.


----------



## Karllin

Never heard of Sophia Electric. I looked at their website, just now. Looks like a group of a Chinese who are making new knockoffs from other companies designs, then charging very high prices. Remember the reason a lot of these tubes, like western electric 421A are expensive is they are rare and are out of production. Tubes made in China and Russia, that are still being mass produced, should not be so expensive. There are alt of 5998 looking tubes in China that sell for $10 or $15, but I would never stick one on my amp. And I noticed that Sophia charges an extra $25 for a one year warranty. I have no idea about their product, but they don't have much confidence in their own product, if they only give you a 30-day warranty. 

Be careful.


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> Never heard of Sophia Electric. I looked at their website, just now. Looks like a group of a Chinese who are making new knockoffs from other companies designs, then charging very high prices. Remember the reason a lot of these tubes, like western electric 421A are expensive is they are rare and are out of production. Tubes made in China and Russia, that are still being mass produced, should not be so expensive. There are alt of 5998 looking tubes in China that sell for $10 or $15, but I would never stick one on my amp. And I noticed that Sophia charges an extra $25 for a one year warranty. I have no idea about their product, but they don't have much confidence in their own product, if they only give you a 30-day warranty.
> 
> Be careful.


 
 I never had problem with them, also woo audio buy to them to supply as the best upgrade possible that their offer, and woo audio has high reputation in this forum as audio company.


----------



## Karllin

You are right, woo does sell them. It means they are pretty good. I have never tried them. The Wu family seems to be doing well in the tube and amp business. Wonder if they are related? 

I still prefer buying made in USA NOS tubes, until they all disappear or get to the point I can't afford them. At least, Sophia will be there when that happens. Good to know!

Thanks for the info. I had not looked into the Woo equipment details.


----------



## greenkiwi

Lalalala....plugging ears... All this talk is going to get me to spend way too much on new tubes... That I'm not even sure I need.


----------



## Karllin

I would say enjoy the tubes you have, and when they try some different ones. They'll be on their way to the grave in a few years. Then you can adopt a new set.

Regardless of which tubes you use, the Little Dot is a great sounding amp and well worth the price. Plus the guy that makes them is quite interesting, yet, but no English.


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> You are right, woo does sell them. It means they are pretty good. I have never tried them. The Wu family seems to be doing well in the tube and amp business. Wonder if they are related?
> 
> I still prefer buying made in USA NOS tubes, until they all disappear or get to the point I can't afford them. At least, Sophia will be there when that happens. Good to know!
> 
> Thanks for the info. I had not looked into the Woo equipment details.


 
 it's not only Woo audio ... Apex Pinnacle use Sophia Electric tubes ... and all of them tubes are Made in USA, if those tubes would made in china would have a lot of copies.


----------



## Karllin

I am sure they are great tubes, a lot of great reviews. Made in USA, they are certainly not. They would likely not make money at those prices if they produced them in the USA . Too many. Requirements and high labor. Nothing wrong with China made stuff. I am in China. You are right. Everything is copied, but they prefer to copy things that are easy to sell and in huge numbers, like beats audio and jawbone stuff.

Sophia builds their amps in the USA, not their tubes.


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> I am sure they are great tubes, a lot of great reviews. Made in USA, they are certainly not. They would likely not make money at those prices if they produced them in the USA . Too many. Requirements and high labor. Nothing wrong with China made stuff. I am in China. You are right. Everything is copied, but they prefer to copy things that are easy to sell and in huge numbers, like beats audio and jawbone stuff.
> 
> Sophia builds their amps in the USA, not their tubes.




I know that they are made in USA, there are a lot of think that are dont made in china, magic the gathering cards are one of that few thinks for example, they make it in Bulgaria


----------



## Karllin

Just do your research or give them a call and ask. Sophia tubes are made near Beijing, China at the Tianjin Electric Factory. TJ/Full Sound tubes are made in the same factory. 

If Anyone tells you they are made in the USA, please ask where that factory is. China is just more cost effective at making many components. And no matter where the factory is located, it comes down to the Process and QC. From what I have now read, Sophia put a lot of research into making there tubes and are certainly world class products.

Unless someone shows me clear evidence, Sophia Electric tubes are made in China.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

They are chinese with better quality control.


----------



## atistatic

karllin said:


> Just do your research or give them a call and ask. Sophia tubes are made near Beijing, China at the Tianjin Electric Factory. TJ/Full Sound tubes are made in the same factory.
> 
> If Anyone tells you they are made in the USA, please ask where that factory is. China is just more cost effective at making many components. And no matter where the factory is located, it comes down to the Process and QC. From what I have now read, Sophia put a lot of research into making there tubes and are certainly world class products.
> 
> Unless someone shows me clear evidence, Sophia Electric tubes are made in China.


 
 Do you have any idea what is grade ? when they separate the same tube in Grade A, B and C ?


----------



## Karllin

A lot of companies give you exact reading of the measurements they have made on the tubes they are selling, I have not seen them using a,b, or c etc.... I guess since Sophia is selling there new production tubes they are testing them and then grading them depending on the measurements and how closely matched they are. Maybe A is 10%, B 20%, or something like that. Kind of like how intel bins cpu, the best become extreme processors, the best will overclock higher and have more stability, same goes for GPUs.

I saw some companies use, silver level, gold level, and platinum level. It is just to keep it simple for people who might not be into the technical numbers.

I think I will buy some of the Sophia Electric and try them. Look like a great tube,


----------



## nonno breuss

Could recommend Little dot mk8 for Sony R10? And how would you describe the difference from mk3 to mk8?

Background:
Ive been using the mk3 now for a number of years and I continue to be impressed.

Call me crazy but I even prefer the Mkiii to my 2k red wine audio amp. I've been rolling almost every tube out there and finally found the perfect match with the 6H30p-DR and tung sol driver Tubes,  to drive Sony R10 headphones. I honestly can't imagine how it could sound any better -  still I wander if that is possible. I must emphasize that my R10 are the bass light version,  so they really only work with this particular tube combination and no other I found.

So To the main thing that's holding me back from upgrading to mk8 is that the driver Tubes are different from the mk3 -  if I understand correctly only 12ax7 fit in the VIII SE. Is this correct? I'm asking because I have lots of experience with these Tubes (including the higher rated rca, tung sol, long and short plate mullard, tesla.. ) in other amps and finally found that the 6922 family overall works better for me overall to fill out the light bass of the Sony. (or in the case of the mk3 it's really those tung sol 1960 NOS driver Tubes that help a lot to fill out the bass) 

So my question would be: Has anyone gone from mk3 to mk8 and could share his/her experience? 

Thanks!


----------



## baronbeehive

As I said a couple of posts ago nobody in this thread, despite its title, has had a mkviii as far as I know  so I can't help but in any case the the mkviii has 12AT7 tubes which aren't compatible to my knowledge with 12AX7's. I use the 12AX7's on my speaker amp and I agree with you the Tungsols, (5751) in my case, are superb and quite similar sounding to the 6SL7's I use with my mkvi.


----------



## nonno breuss

Too bad, thanks for your reply anyway


----------



## SoundEngineer

If this was already covered...I am sorry for asking this question again.
  
 Can you use the 4 pin XLR in the front, 3 pin XLR in the back, and the SE 1/4" jack in the front all at the same time?
  
 I have HD650 connected with 4 pin XLR and Yamaha studio monitors are connected via 3 pin XLR.  I am not too happy with my bottom end sound so I'm planning to connect an active sub-woofer via SE 1/4" output to stereo RCA of sub-woofer.
  
 Has anyone used three headphones all at the same time with MK VI?  Do you think this could damage the amp in anyway?


----------



## greenkiwi

Don't know about the SE + Balanced outputs, but I would guess that the load from active components like the yamaha speakers would be rather insignificant to the amp.


----------



## SoundEngineer

greenkiwi said:


> Don't know about the SE + Balanced outputs, but I would guess that the load from active components like the yamaha speakers would be rather insignificant to the amp.


 
 Yes, I am not too worried about the load of 3 pin xlr going to the Yamaha speakers...but I do worry about connecting SE + 4 pin Balanced out at the same time.  It looks like the SE is connected to Balanced pin 1 = L+   3 = R+ and has it's own ground..  This is the reason why I am not sure if I can connect both at the same time.  Does anyone have tried or know for sure if this is ok or not?


----------



## atistatic

I think the best way to know dat is to send a email to David ..., he will answer you without problem.


----------



## HPiper

I was wondering if anybody could tell me what the main difference is between the LD MkIII and the MkIV (not the SE). Does the 4 just have more power or is it a better sounding amp as well.


----------



## Androb

hpiper said:


> I was wondering if anybody could tell me what the main difference is between the LD MkIII and the MkIV (not the SE). Does the 4 just have more power or is it a better sounding amp as well.


 
 Only by reading the product page on littledot.net it seems like the mk4 is their Single ended flagship. Probably will sound better and got more power for maybe more power hungry phones. Only heard the mk3 tho so not sure about the real difference tho.


----------



## SoundEngineer

PSVANE CV181-TII  Collection Grade A or Premium Grade A.

  
 I went from stock 6H9C to Psvane CV181-TII.  I am just shocked!!  I put in about 50+ hrs and I can't believe how crazy good this thing sounds and it keeps getting better.  I am not sure how to describe it...it gave me more physical feeling.  I can feel the bass in my brain.  The volume is at the same level but I can feel the punch and bass vibrating my head.  High and mid are just liquid like...it feels like my headphone is pouring sweet chocolate milk into my ears.  How the heck did they do this?!!  
 This pair is worth every penny.  I have not listen to the Classic Grade or regular Premium Grade but I am sure they should be good.  I just went for the top of the line and I got what I wanted and more!!  Some reviews said it takes 300hrs burn in to get to the best performance.  I am already getting eargasm and if this thing gets better than how it sounds now...I'm going to have eargasm plus orgasm.


----------



## john57

You making me to think that the Psvane CV181-TII is a bass tube!


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> You making me to think that the Psvane CV181-TII is a bass tube!


 
 instead dat sound like a lot of coloration tubes.


----------



## SoundEngineer

john57 said:


> You making me to think that the Psvane CV181-TII is a bass tube!


 
 I am not good at describing things.  No, it doesn't make the sound bassy like you would increase the low frequency on the EQ (200hz - 20hz).  Bass is there but it makes my headphone come alive.  I can feel the sound instead of hear it.  I was doing some A/B test with the stock tube and CV181-TII.  Amount of bass is same or level is same but I can feel my headphone hitting ear flap => outer ear => and ear canal.  Almost as if the sound is a solid object.  The sound is more physical than just air wave. I don't mean it by louder in dB level at all.  It's really hard to describe it.  I can feel the sound instead of just hear it.
  
  


atistatic said:


> instead dat sound like a lot of coloration tubes.


 
 I am not sure what you mean by coloration.  But as far as I've been listening to it...I have not noticed any enhancement on particular frequency level.  This tube made all frequency level come alive as solid object that I can feel them in my head.  I have been hearing sound and music but I didn't know I can feel the sound.  
  
 Little Dot mk VI+ is truly an awesome headphone amp paired with HD650.  And with the CV181-TII...WOW...I am not sure if it can get any better than this.  Has anyone else tried this tube with LDMKVI?


----------



## atistatic

soundengineer said:


> I am not good at describing things.  No, it doesn't make the sound bassy like you would increase the low frequency on the EQ (200hz - 20hz).  Bass is there but it makes my headphone come alive.  I can feel the sound instead of hear it.  I was doing some A/B test with the stock tube and CV181-TII.  Amount of bass is same or level is same but I can feel my headphone hitting ear flap => outer ear => and ear canal.  Almost as if the sound is a solid object.  The sound is more physical than just air wave. I don't mean it by louder in dB level at all.  It's really hard to describe it.  I can feel the sound instead of just hear it.
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by coloration.  But as far as I've been listening to it...I have not noticed any enhancement on particular frequency level.  This tube made all frequency level come alive as solid object that I can feel them in my head.  I have been hearing sound and music but I didn't know I can feel the sound.
> ...


 
 I mean that is Coloured sound tubes like the hd650, not flat response, it mean that doesn't deliver the "original" or "authenthic" sound.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Well, I would say HD650 does add color compared to HD600.  And also my ATH-M50 is really colored in terms of frequency response.  Maybe your interpretation of colored and my interpretation of colored might be different.  So I am not sure if this tube is colored or not colored in your term of color.  As far as I know it is very even on the frequency response where it doesn't add any color and the music sounds pretty original and authentic in frequency response level across the board.
  
 What I noticed is the tube adds more energy to the sound where you can feel the sound.  I can feel the guitar plucking and picking sound in my ear canal it almost tickles my ear.  As if the guitar string is right next to my ear.  Decibel level has not been changed or raised.  I can't get this feeling with the stock tube even when I raised the volume really high.  I have not heard any other 6sn7 driver tubes so I can't say anything about the other tubes. But the difference is like night and day when I compare this to the stock 6H9C.  With 6H9C, it's like watching a black and white TV with 320 line resolution.  With CV181-TII, it's like watching a 4K TV.  It definitely adds high definition, vivid color, and realism to the dull black and white boring sound.  It totally gives richness, dynamic energy, and life to the music.  I am now listening to the music in a whole new level thanks to this awesome tube.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The LD supplied stock Chinese 6N9P is a pretty mediocre tube, I have found every replacement I tried on the Mk9 was a substantial improvement. I suspect the VI+ will be similar.


----------



## baronbeehive

Sounds like audio nirvana is at hand what with the allusions to chocolate and all! I've heard that the psvanes are great but so far not tried them, I've got a thing about new issue tubes but would be interested sometime maybe, others have described the sound as dynamic and detailed, similar to what you have said. To get bass that you can feel over headphones is pretty rare.
  
 Yikes - just seen the price!!


----------



## atistatic

soundengineer said:


> I am not good at describing things.  No, it doesn't make the sound bassy like you would increase the low frequency on the EQ (200hz - 20hz).  Bass is there but it makes my headphone come alive.  I can feel the sound instead of hear it.  I was doing some A/B test with the stock tube and CV181-TII.  Amount of bass is same or level is same but I can feel my headphone hitting ear flap => outer ear => and ear canal.  Almost as if the sound is a solid object.  The sound is more physical than just air wave. I don't mean it by louder in dB level at all.  It's really hard to describe it.  I can feel the sound instead of just hear it.
> 
> 
> I am not sure what you mean by coloration.  But as far as I've been listening to it...I have not noticed any enhancement on particular frequency level.  This tube made all frequency level come alive as solid object that I can feel them in my head.  I have been hearing sound and music but I didn't know I can feel the sound.
> ...


 
 Sincerely i didn't tried the CV181-TII, but i tried cv181z treasure with a adaptor, and GE 6sn7, but the Sophia Electric 6SN7G beat all of them, in term of transparency, detail and timbre.

 PD: I don't understand the guys that buy Schiit, Woo Audio, etc tubes amp, when many users say that LD MK VI SE+ beat in any term to those AMPs, Except by the WA5 of Woo audio.


----------



## john57

atistatic said:


> Sincerely i didn't tried the CV181-TII, but i tried cv181z treasure with a adaptor, and GE 6sn7, but the Sophia Electric 6SN7G beat all of them, in term of transparency, detail and timbre.
> 
> PD: I don't understand the guys that buy Schiit, Woo Audio, etc tubes amp, when many users say that LD MK VI SE+ beat in any term to those AMPs, Except by the WA5 of Woo audio.


 
 You are right the only tube amp that I have personally heard that can beat my LD VI is the Woo WA5.


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> You are right the only tube amp that I have personally heard that can beat my LD VI is the Woo WA5.


 
 well 300b and 5U4g are powerfull tubes my friend also has dedicate power supply and use 4 transformer, but I heard that the DNA stratus are quite close of apex pinnacle SQ, so I think that will be my next amp after complete my headphone collection.


----------



## baronbeehive

john57 said:


> You are right the only tube amp that I have personally heard that can beat my LD VI is the Woo WA5.


 
  
 Yes but it's 4 times the price and has no balanced outputs, the LD has to be the steal of the century. I'm keeping mine. How much better is the WA5? I'm just listening to Tears For Fears, a track called "listen" and the soundstage is smooth, wide, open and sounds fantastic. Not that I want to inflict my musical tastes on you but just to make a point.


----------



## john57

Actually I listen to the Woo 5LE a few times over the years but never brought them. The 300B tube amp just has different sonic characteristic from my LD VI which may or not appeal to you. Currently I am using my Oppo HA-1 balanced outs to my LD balanced inputs and the LD balanced outputs are driving my airmotiv 6's in addition to headphones.  The only thing that matters is that you are happy with your setup.


----------



## atistatic

baronbeehive said:


> Yes but it's 4 times the price and has no balanced outputs, the LD has to be the steal of the century. I'm keeping mine. How much better is the WA5? I'm just listening to Tears For Fears, a track called "listen" and the soundstage is smooth, wide, open and sounds fantastic. Not that I want to inflict my musical tastes on you but just to make a point.


 
 what? the WA5 has it, even have K1K gain, Speaker, high and low impedance switch, i think you saw the LE version that hasn't


----------



## baronbeehive

atistatic said:


> what? the WA5 has it, even have K1K gain, Speaker, high and low impedance switch, i think you saw the LE version that hasn't


 
 Sorry I meant balanced inputs.  One thing that would make me think is finding a good amp that does both speakers and headphones for a reasonable price as you say.


john57 said:


> Actually I listen to the Woo 5LE a few times over the years but never brought them. The 300B tube amp just has different sonic characteristic from my LD VI which may or not appeal to you. Currently I am using my Oppo HA-1 balanced outs to my LD balanced inputs and the LD balanced outputs are driving my airmotiv 6's in addition to headphones.  The only thing that matters is that you are happy with your setup.


 
 This is pretty much my final system, unless I come into a pile of money, but of course one always keeps one's ear to the ground!! Such is our hobby.


----------



## Synthax

Hello All,
 It looks *Little Dot MK VI+ has a motorised Alps volume control. Does it really have remote control? What is the motor in this pot for?*
  
*Thank you*


----------



## john57

synthax said:


> Hello All,
> It looks *Little Dot MK VI+ has a motorised Alps volume control. Does it really have remote control? What is the motor in this pot for?*
> 
> *Thank you*


 
 Absolutely nothing. The motor is not even connected.


----------



## atistatic

baronbeehive said:


> Sorry I meant balanced inputs.  One thing that would make me think is finding a good amp that does both speakers and headphones for a reasonable price as you say.
> This is pretty much my final system, unless I come into a pile of money, but of course one always keeps one's ear to the ground!! Such is our hobby.


 
 Why do you need a balanced inputs if the amp is already quiet? also i think that can't build an amp of 300B with balanced outputs cuz i never saw one, manley Labs, WA5, Sophia Electric amps, etc etc etc ... these amps don't have balanced input.


----------



## Androb

Rolled some new tubes I just bought today 

Tung Sol 6SN7 GTB


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> Absolutely nothing. The motor is not even connected.


 
 i didn't understand ... about which motor is talking about ? by the way ... which DAC do you use John57?


----------



## john57

atistatic said:


> i didn't understand ... about which motor is talking about ? by the way ... which DAC do you use John57?


 
 The motor at the end of the volume pot for remote operation of volume. The motor is just taking up space and has no connection to the circuit board. The LD VI has no space for motor control circuity. 
 I am on my 7th DAC the Oppo HA-1 I have out lived three DAC's due to a power supply issue, channel went out and Etc.


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> The motor at the end of the volume pot for remote operation of volume. The motor is just taking up space and has no connection to the circuit board. The LD VI has no space for motor control circuity.
> I am on my 7th DAC the Oppo HA-1 I have out lived three DAC's due to a power supply issue, channel went out and Etc.


 
 i think you should try Anedio D2, is a neutral and accurate as can as be with the LD MK VI+ if is the power supply issue i recommend you a Online UPS Emerson Liebert GXT3.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Too bad that Psvane doesn't make 6AS7 coke bottle power tubes.  I would buy them in a heartbeat as soon as they make them.  
 I couldn't help it.  My OCD kicked in.  I'm in love with Psvane tube that I just couldn't stop the urge to match the color of my RCA JAN 6AS7G to Psvane color.  Luckily local Michael's store had the copper and gold that I mixed to match the color as close to the original as possible.
  

  
 Now I need to make a custom decals for the Psvane Logo to stick them on the base or on the glass.
  
 I know some of you might be thinking this is so ghetto...like putting MB or BMW emblem on a Honda Civic.  Well...it's just temporary until Psvane makes 6AS7s.  I'm holding my breath.


----------



## atistatic

soundengineer said:


> Too bad that Psvane doesn't make 6AS7 coke bottle power tubes.  I would buy them in a heartbeat as soon as they make them.
> I couldn't help it.  My OCD kicked in.  I'm in love with Psvane tube that I just couldn't stop the urge to match the color of my RCA JAN 6AS7G to Psvane color.  Luckily local Michael's store had the copper and gold that I mixed to match the color as close to the original as possible.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't understand why no one make 6as7g tubes ...


----------



## john57

atistatic said:


> I don't understand why no one make 6as7g tubes ...


 
 Because there is no profit in it. Until the supply of low cost Russian NOS 6as7g dries up.


----------



## SoundEngineer

john57 said:


> Because there is no profit in it. Until the supply of low cost Russian NOS 6as7g dries up.


 
 S%$t!  I'm not holding my breath anymore.  I will be dead by the time Russians NOS 6SA7g dries up.


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> Because there is no profit in it. Until the supply of low cost Russian NOS 6as7g dries up.


 
 there is a lot of difference in SQ between a 5998 tubes and Russian NOS 6as7g?
  
 i found this ... http://www.tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/product.asp?ID=365 these guys manufacture 6as7g tubes i think so ... i don't know how the performance them but it's something


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Billington are just a reseller (I have dealt with Martin / team for many years and recommend them strongly), these are just standard Russian tubes that they put through a selection process for noise / matching etc. But the Russian tube is high quality start so are great value but they do not make stuff themselves. Much less hit and miss than dealing with Russian / Ikraine Ebay sellers unless you buy in quantity and have a tester to hand.


----------



## baronbeehive

atistatic said:


> Why do you need a balanced inputs if the amp is already quiet? also i think that can't build an amp of 300B with balanced outputs cuz i never saw one, manley Labs, WA5, Sophia Electric amps, etc etc etc ... these amps don't have balanced input.


 
 That's an interesting question that I don't feel qualified to answer, perhaps someone will tell us. I was, and still am skeptical that breaking up and recombining the signal can improve the sound other than by removing noise which is the main benefit. I does however introduce a further level of processing analogous to having different speaker drivers instead of just one, there are people on both sides of the fence. Suffice it to say I wanted to maximise my listening pleasure over headphones and this was the way to do it, until further developments come along. I don't however see the point of a balanced output without balanced inputs thats too far down the line to give any benefit. Also one reason that Woo have not done this is it would near double the price.


----------



## atistatic

nic rhodes said:


> Billington are just a reseller (I have dealt with Martin / team for many years and recommend them strongly), these are just standard Russian tubes that they put through a selection process for noise / matching etc. But the Russian tube is high quality start so are great value but they do not make stuff themselves. Much less hit and miss than dealing with Russian / Ikraine Ebay sellers unless you buy in quantity and have a tester to hand.


 
 what's up dat tubes compared with 5998 tung sol?
  
  


baronbeehive said:


> That's an interesting question that I don't feel qualified to answer, perhaps someone will tell us. I was, and still am skeptical that breaking up and recombining the signal can improve the sound other than by removing noise which is the main benefit. I does however introduce a further level of processing analogous to having different speaker drivers instead of just one, there are people on both sides of the fence. Suffice it to say I wanted to maximise my listening pleasure over headphones and this was the way to do it, until further developments come along. I don't however see the point of a balanced output without balanced inputs thats too far down the line to give any benefit. Also one reason that Woo have not done this is it would near double the price.


 
  
 I think the only difference between unblanced and balanced cables are the noise, even told dat Donald from DNA, he was Transducer engineer in Boston Acoustic, even dat is my conclusion when i tried with RCA output and XLR output from my Anedio D2, and about the woo audio, i think that they need put 2 couple of transformer more and the amp will be really heavy, i this know cuz Donald told me that he need put a couple of transformer if he must build the DNA stratus with balanced input.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yes. Not specifically a LD matter but I take it that the fact that the LD provides a balanced signal out results in better bass performance and more realistic soundstage. What I have difficulty understanding is why does this occur, as far as I can see it is just down to the purity of the signal, and bass and soundstage are the elements most likely to benefit, but now we have asynchronous DAC's with galvanic isolation then that should be sufficient without balanced per se. I'm not sure we need to go down the balanced route unless we have difficult cabling requirements, are we all being taken in?


----------



## john57

With the Woo WA22 you have to use the balanced inputs in order for the amp to reach full power if you needed it. There has been a lot talk about this in other threads. It all depends on the amp design.


----------



## john57

soundengineer said:


> Too bad that Psvane doesn't make 6AS7 coke bottle power tubes.  I would buy them in a heartbeat as soon as they make them.
> I couldn't help it.  My OCD kicked in.  I'm in love with Psvane tube that I just couldn't stop the urge to match the color of my RCA JAN 6AS7G to Psvane color.  Luckily local Michael's store had the copper and gold that I mixed to match the color as close to the original as possible.


 
 I have some all copper radiator NOS 6AS7 tubes with beautiful art work on them. Have not used them yet.


----------



## atistatic

baronbeehive said:


> Yes. Not specifically a LD matter but I take it that the fact that the LD provides a balanced signal out results in better bass performance and more realistic soundstage. What I have difficulty understanding is why does this occur, as far as I can see it is just down to the purity of the signal, and bass and soundstage are the elements most likely to benefit, but now we have asynchronous DAC's with galvanic isolation then that should be sufficient without balanced per se. I'm not sure we need to go down the balanced route unless we have difficult cabling requirements, are we all being taken in?


 
 sincerely i don't have another benefit that reduce drastically buzz sound with the balanced interconnection, well maybe can be for the difference of Vrms between balanced and unbalanced output sometime happen when the difference between the outputs is much.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Too bad that Psvane doesn't make 6AS7 coke bottle power tubes.  I would buy them in a heartbeat as soon as they make them.
> I couldn't help it.  My OCD kicked in.  I'm in love with Psvane tube that I just couldn't stop the urge to match the color of my RCA JAN 6AS7G to Psvane color.  Luckily local Michael's store had the copper and gold that I mixed to match the color as close to the original as possible.
> 
> 
> ...



That's not ghetto to me!
 that's pimping it up visually and more eye candy 


By the way, those black transformer covers, 
Can anyone tell me the dimensions and if they are solid or thin and if they are removable?


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> That's not ghetto to me!
> that's pimping it up visually and more eye candy
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.  I am glad that you don't thinks it's ghetto. =)
  
 The transformer covers can be removed by removing 4 screws that hold them in place.  I personally have not removed them myself but it seems like the covers have pretty good thick steel when I tap on them.
  
 Dimension are 2 3/4" H x 3 7/8" L x 3 7/8" W.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Let me correct the dimension:
  
 2 3/4" H x 3 5/8" L x 3 7/8" W.


----------



## baronbeehive

john57 said:


> With the Woo WA22 you have to use the balanced inputs in order for the amp to reach full power if you needed it. There has been a lot talk about this in other threads. It all depends on the amp design.


 
 Thanks for the info on balanced threads John, very interesting, I hadn't come across this before.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

didn't Woo change that?


----------



## john57

nic rhodes said:


> didn't Woo change that?


 
 I recheck since I am not a Woo owner and it appears that a *phase* *splitter* was added on the unbalanced inputs not quite a year ago.
  
 P.S. On older WA22 it is a $250 upgrade charge.


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> I recheck since I am not a Woo owner and it appears that a *phase* *splitter* was added on the unbalanced inputs not quite a year ago.
> 
> P.S. On older WA22 it is a $250 upgrade charge.


 
 in my humble opinion is a stealing a amp for 2k when you can get a better amp for U$S1350 with Mundorf capacity upgrade + shipping.


----------



## Maxx134

atistatic said:


> in my humble opinion is a stealing a amp for 2k when you can get a better amp for U$S1350 with Mundorf capacity upgrade + shipping.



now that you mention it, the Little Dot upgrade is a more quality cap upgrade,
instead of larger cap, as I read that they use .22uf size..
unlike members tried here. ..
So what is the general consensus on the " *M-CAP® Supreme Silver / Gold & Oil* " upgrade cap upgrade size?? 

.22uf or bigger.33uf at same 19mmX39mm..

OR

possible size incompatibility with chasis with .47uf or .68uf both at 26mmX41mm..

Any consensus on sound improvement going beyond .33uf ?


----------



## baronbeehive

I decided to put in new caps because I'm keeping my LD for the forseeable future and wanted to get the most out of it. I've had Ansar .47uF caps put in as an interim measure before putting in some Mundorf Supreme .47uF at 20x39mm sometime in the future. The Ansar went in when I found out that the Audyn True Copper that I originally wanted were way to big to fit. Ansars are used a lot in basic audiophile grade systems. My LD is 6 years old and I believe that the newer ones are slightly different inside and can accomodate the Mundorfs, I've measured inside and I don't believe they would fit in mine, however there is the option of getting slim fans which would allow 1 or 2mm gap bearing in mind that you don't really want to have the caps touching the PCB. The 26mm dia definately wouldn't fit in mine, I don't know about later models, I suggest you unscrew the base plate and measure the gap.
  
 Regarding sound, the others in this thread who have had the mods say the sound is fantastic. I'm having the standard Mundorf Supremes because they are cheap, there is always the option of the Silver Oil it you didn't want to fork out for the Silver/Gold/Oils which many say is the best in the range anyway. The higher the capacitance the better the bass response up to about 1uF after which I gather diminishing returns sets in, also very high values can cause sound imbalances.


----------



## baronbeehive

john57 said:


> With the Woo WA22 you have to use the balanced inputs in order for the amp to reach full power if you needed it. There has been a lot talk about this in other threads. It all depends on the amp design.


 
 John, I wish you hadn't inadvertantly directed me to the balanced threads


----------



## Poladise

Received the VI+ back from LD with upgraded 0.33uf mundorfs (highest uf they would put in). I expected the difference might not be very noticable compared to the old caps, but you really can tell the change. There's more presence to the sound, more fluid. It's like the picture has become more clear and defined. Very impressed.


----------



## baronbeehive

Sounds great! Did you have the silver cabling as well?


----------



## Poladise

I think that's only an option for new builds Baron.


----------



## SoundEngineer

poladise said:


> Received the VI+ back from LD with upgraded 0.33uf mundorfs (highest uf they would put in). I expected the difference might not be very noticable compared to the old caps, but you really can tell the change. There's more presence to the sound, more fluid. It's like the picture has become more clear and defined. Very impressed.


 
 I would like to learn more about this capacitor upgrade. I have many questions:
  
 1.  Which Mundorfs did you put in?  Silver/gold oil or silver oil or supreme or ZN?
 2.  How hard is it to install one?  Is it simple as removing the stock one and just soldering in the new ones?
 3.  What max DCV can you use?  I am planning to get a pair of Supreme Silver Oil .47uf but the voltage is 1000DCV so I wasn't sure if this will work or not.


----------



## Poladise

They put supreme silver gold oil 1000VDC in. Be careful though, apparently the circuit board is a real bitch to take out. I didnt plan on changing the caps for a year or two, but I sent the amp back to get a small issue looked at & asked for the upgrade while it was there.


----------



## john57

poladise said:


> They put supreme silver gold oil 1000VDC in. Be careful though, apparently the circuit board is a real bitch to take out. I didnt plan on changing the caps for a year or two, but I sent the amp back to get a small issue looked at & asked for the upgrade while it was there.


 
 Yes the Mk VI is not the easiest amp to work on. Everything is on one big circuit board with wires soldered everywhere. That is my only nick-pick about the amp.


----------



## SoundEngineer

poladise said:


> They put supreme silver gold oil 1000VDC in. Be careful though, apparently the circuit board is a real bitch to take out. I didnt plan on changing the caps for a year or two, but I sent the amp back to get a small issue looked at & asked for the upgrade while it was there.


 
 Poladise,
  
 how many mundorfs did they install?
 i have the newer board with 4 blue caps and I was planning to leave those alone and just change the two caps in front of them.  But i have seen some picture where all 6 caps were upgraded with mundorf silver gold oil.  Did you get all 6 caps upgraded?


----------



## SoundEngineer

correction on my question.
 i meant to say 8caps instead of 6caps.  there are two caps in front of the blue ones on both sides on my board. 
 I am leaning toward changing out all caps at once since it is not easy to take the board out.


----------



## Poladise

Here you go


----------



## atistatic

Can you take a high quality picture and send me the link of any image server please ?
  Quote:


poladise said:


> Here you go


----------



## SoundEngineer

poladise said:


> Here you go


 
 Wow!  Thank you so much for answer.  "Picture is worth a thousand words".
  
 I am wondering if changing those blue ones would make any difference.


----------



## coinmaster

Hi. Sorry to veer off topic from your discussion on those awesome cap upgrades but I have a question to ask 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I listen to a mix of EDM/acoustic/vocal music usually all in one song and since high end hybrid amps seem to not exist I am wondering if this amp will do well with such a combination of music. I have never owned or heard a tube amp before and I am told they do not handle fast music well.
 Have any of you tried this amp with electronic/dance music?
 My main objective with this amp is to give soul to my hd800s with female vocals/EDM music.
  
 Appreciate any help.


----------



## john57

soundengineer said:


> Wow!  Thank you so much for answer.  "Picture is worth a thousand words".
> 
> I am wondering if changing those blue ones would make any difference.


 
 The blue caps are for the power tubes and they are not in the signal path. The LD VI+ does not use caps at the output and it is OCL (output capacitor-less) circuit topology. If you look closely at the blue caps it is two caps in one in a blue shrink warp in parallel electrical connection. It is the other caps that was upgraded that is from the driver tubes and the audio signal does pass thru those new caps.   Those new caps blocks the DC from the driver tubes and allows the audio signal to pass to the power tubes.


----------



## SoundEngineer

john57 said:


> The blue caps are for the power tubes and they are not in the signal path. The LD VI+ does not use caps at the output and it is OCL (output capacitor-less) circuit topology. If you look closely at the blue caps it is two caps in one in a blue shrink warp in parallel electrical connection. It is the other caps that was upgraded that is from the driver tubes and the audio signal does pass thru those new caps.   Those new caps blocks the DC from the driver tubes and allows the audio signal to pass to the power tubes.


 
 John57,
  
 Thank you so much for the clarification.  I can now focus on just getting four caps upgraded.
  
 Can someone recommend a good place to buy Mundorf silver/gold/oil caps?  I've seen them on ebay but not sure if I should buy them from ebay.  I was looking for some more reputable sellers.


----------



## baronbeehive

coinmaster said:


> Hi. Sorry to veer off topic from your discussion on those awesome cap upgrades but I have a question to ask
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This amp does not lack in speed at all, not like old style tube amps from the 1950's. I like all the same music genres as you and use it for EDM too, for example Hotel Costes and suffice it to say it sounds pretty awesome to me. The only thing might be the bass punch which is not quite the same as SS amps but you gain in overall tone which really shows in vocals especially female which have a really fantastic lifelike sound to them. This is the strength of tube amps. I really think that this amp would do well with HD800's as it is but you could further improve the sound by changing the tubes to tame the treble a tad if you wanted, this would be simple to do. Maybe HD800 owners on this thread would agree with me?


----------



## atistatic

coinmaster said:


> Hi. Sorry to veer off topic from your discussion on those awesome cap upgrades but I have a question to ask
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 John tell to this guy why LD MK VI+ is a thousand time a better choice than WA22 of woo audio, i told him that get buy a LD MK VI+ instead the WA22, so you might tell better why MK VI+ is better than WA22. By the way i told him that buy MK VI+ with upgraded cables, mundorf capacitors, etc etc ...


----------



## coinmaster

4


atistatic said:


> John tell to this guy why LD MK VI+ is a thousand time a better choice than WA22 of woo audio, i told him that get buy a LD MK VI+ instead the WA22, so you might tell better why MK VI+ is better than WA22. By the way i told him that buy MK VI+ with upgraded cables, mundorf capacitors, etc etc ...


 

 Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tell me!
 Also just fyi, I contacted David from Little Amps and he said the difference between stock caps and Mundorf supreme gold/silver/oil caps are barely noticeable. He also said that it's "easy" to install upgrade caps if I decide to buy some. Not that I know anything about installing capacitors into amplifiers. If all that is true I will probably save the upgrades for later except maybe the cable upgrades. Still looking into that.
  
  
 Edit: I've just been told by **** quote
 "Forget about that amp, it's quite good for the money assuming you don't get a lemon - which is a rick with Little Dot stuff. Same deal with DarkVoice/La Figaro as well. Get a good one though, and it sounds very nice indeed."





  Lemons make me sad


----------



## atistatic

coinmaster said:


> 4
> 
> Yes
> 
> ...


 
 i would want know who told to you dat?


----------



## coinmaster

Project86 told me. He's been helping me find the right DAC for my system.
 He also said quote
 "Just bad QA process, where they ship out a finished product that never should have been released from the factory. From little flaws in the finish that you'd never see on a Schiit, Violectric, etc amp, to major problems in functionality, to complete failures. This is not something you can predict though..... just buy from someone you trust who allows returns or supports the sale once it ships, just in case".


----------



## atistatic

coinmaster said:


> Project86 told me. He's been helping me find the right DAC for my system.
> He also said quote
> "Just bad QA process, where they ship out a finished product that never should have been released from the factory. From little flaws in the finish that you'd never see on a Schiit, Violectric, etc amp, to major problems in functionality, to complete failures. This is not something you can predict though..... just buy from someone you trust who allows returns or supports the sale once it ships, just in case".


 
 Well maybe i can give you opinion, when i get the DNA Stratus, he recommended me dat amp, by the way he is a more solid state guy.


----------



## john57

coinmaster said:


> Project86 told me. He's been helping me find the right DAC for my system.
> He also said quote
> "Just bad QA process, where they ship out a finished product that never should have been released from the factory. From little flaws in the finish that you'd never see on a Schiit, Violectric, etc amp, to major problems in functionality, to complete failures. This is not something you can predict though..... just buy from someone you trust who allows returns or supports the sale once it ships, just in case".


 
 The only thing that Project86 publicly stated here on Head-Fi Is this statement that I can find at this moment:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/615218/review-yulong-sabre-a18-reference-headphone-amp/75#post_9562559


----------



## Svatopluk

The HD-800 and MK VI+ pair very well on female vocals with the right tubes. Right now I'm using the RCA 5691 and Thomson 6080WA which produce an all-round positive result at a reasonable price, they really bring out the HD-800's bass.
 I'm sure there are other tube combo's that will make the MK VI+ shine as well depending on how much you wish to spend.


----------



## Maxx134

g600 said:


> ...
> Great stuff those Kiwame, nice buy. They smell quality, unlike those blue chinese failure...






defqon said:


> ...
> The 5 watt blue metal film units are bog standard Chinese generics. In reality they are probably only rated for max 300vdc and about 3-4watts of heat disspitation. Rather poor for "power resistors".




I was looking at the internal board of the mk6 & mk8..
It seems the "blue chinese fail" resistor issue have been adressed in the mk8, OR
They put weaker ones?!
They are BLACK in the mk8..
Do any mk6 have these black looking resistors???

LOOk:


AND:


??
edit:
OMG upon closer inspection they look anemic!
Still maybe better?
I realize they are for specific power tube,
So probably thats why..


----------



## G600

Don't know, I believe they aren't used anymore in actual builds.
 Not expensive to send them some Kiwame or replace them yourself.
 It's worth doing.


----------



## coinmaster

I just officially bought a MKVI+ in silver! Yaaaaaay! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Hopefully no one looks at my bills 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Next stop.....schiit yggdrasil....or questyle CAS192D...and then some ridiculously overpriced xlr cables...oh god what have you people done to me


----------



## Androb

coinmaster said:


> I just officially bought a MKVI+ in silver! Yaaaaaay!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome to the family! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There actually is some nice xlr cables on places like aliexpress for a quite nice pricetag actually!!


----------



## Poladise

Wow, just made an interesting (noob?) discovery. When I first got the VI+ a few months ago I used it single ended for a couple hours before altering my LCD2 & Grado cables to add the 4 pin balanced connections. When I tried it balanced, I thought it sounded cleaner and wasnt sure if I was just imagining it, but there seem like less bass. I do remember craving some more body to the sound in the few weeks afterwards, but I then sent it back to LD to sort a slight channel imbalance and upgrade the caps.
  
 Got the amp back recently and was impressed with the clarity improvement from the new caps, but still thought the VI+ was too anemic sounding. Over the last week I became tired of it's sound: very clear and spacious, but lacking any low end grunt and almost unpleasantly forward mids. I'd been looking to see what bass heavy tubes I could buy to fix it. 
  
 Then tonight I thought back to when I first tried the amp and about that switch to balanced being a bit thinner sounding. Made up an adapter to go back to SE... yes! totally fixed, everything I was missing has been filled back in, sounds sooo much better now.
  
 Is that weird balanced sound i've been getting, the effect of my single ended source being converted to a balanced signal in the amp?


----------



## john57

Very clear and spacious sounds also can mean that bass is also very tight which can give the impression of less bass. The VI+ has a very clear sound in general. Just use the output you like. Some different driver tubes do have a darker sound.


----------



## G600

Are you sure your source doesn't have a design flaw with balanced outputs ?


----------



## Poladise

Weird thing is, when run I SE input to balanced out, it sounds very similar to how the Mjolnir was when I tried it. I couldnt believe what I was hearing from the Mjolnir was the sound that some many rave about, but that could be similar to whats happening with the VI.
  
 Wish I had a balanced dac to try.  I thinking either there may be a problem with how I've wired the xlrs or SE to balanced does some weird cancelling out in the spectrum.


----------



## zenpunk

The LD cannot convert SE input to balanced out. You were listening to half the amp...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I really don't undersdand why anybody would use this amp with a SE source.


----------



## Poladise

Just wanted to do it in stages, thought I could use SE input with balanced out for a while until I acquired a proper dac.


----------



## zenpunk

Fair enough. I do think Little Dot are actually making  a disservice to themselves and that fantastic amp by fitting SE inputs and outputs.
 Not too sure why you build a SE to balanced cable as the LD already has SE inputs???


----------



## Poladise

Not sure what you mean Zen, but I made my grados and lcds balanced and my SE dac has always gone to the SE input on the amp.
 Tonight I made an adapter so the phones could go back into the amps SE output.


----------



## baronbeehive

No bass with the LCD2 there's got to be something up. You can't get a true balanced signal all the way from source out of a single ended input, although you could split it later of course, so the signal is half of the signal coming out of the balanced output so it could be out of phase or something. I don't know if you have wired up the balanced cable properly, don't know how it works with the LCD. You should use it SE or balanced but not a combination of both, If you can try it with a balanced source and you still have the problem then it must be that channel imbalance or wrongly wired cable.


----------



## greenkiwi

zenpunk said:


> Fair enough. I do think Little Dot are actually making  a disservice to themselves and that fantastic amp by fitting SE inputs and outputs.
> Not too sure why you build a SE to balanced cable as the LD already has SE inputs???



I don't see a problem with se outputs, as long as they work from the balanced inputs.

Se inputs should only be there if there is an inverter to turn them into balanced


----------



## atistatic

john57 said:


> Very clear and spacious sounds also can mean that bass is also very tight which can give the impression of less bass. The VI+ has a very clear sound in general. Just use the output you like. Some different driver tubes do have a darker sound.


 
 and ... with which one i get a flat sound signature?


----------



## Poladise

Just in case it's my wiring, here's the signal path through my XLRs. Pretty sure that's right, but can someone confirm? cheers


----------



## john57

The wiring look okay if looking at the 4-pin xlr jack on the VI+ or the *back *of the XLR cable, not the front.


----------



## Poladise

Yep that's how I had it it, thanks John. Looks like it's time to start searching for a balanced dac...


----------



## greenkiwi

poladise said:


> Yep that's how I had it it, thanks John. Looks like it's time to start searching for a balanced dac...


Any friends near by with one? Or another head-fier?

Or an audio dealer?


----------



## Poladise

Yeah Item Audio are not a great distance from me, pretty good to deal with, might pay them a visit.


----------



## greenkiwi

I'd do that... no reason to spend money chasing the wrong problems.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> John57,
> 
> Thank you so much for the clarification.  I can now focus on just getting four caps upgraded.
> 
> Can someone recommend a good place to buy Mundorf silver/gold/oil caps?  I've seen them on ebay but not sure if I should buy them from ebay.  I was looking for some more reputable sellers.



 http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_mundorf_sgo.html





poladise said:


> Wow, just made an interesting (noob?) discovery. When I first got the VI+ a few months ago I used it single ended for a couple hours before altering my LCD2 & Grado cables to add the 4 pin balanced connections. When I tried it balanced, I thought it sounded cleaner and wasnt sure if I was just imagining it, but there seem like less bass. I do remember craving some more body to the sound in the few weeks afterwards, but I then sent it back to LD to sort a slight channel imbalance and upgrade the caps.
> 
> Got the amp back recently and was impressed with the clarity improvement from the new caps, but still thought the VI+ was too anemic sounding. Over the last week I became tired of it's sound: very clear and spacious, but lacking any low end grunt and almost unpleasantly forward mids. I'd been looking to see what bass heavy tubes I could buy to fix it.
> 
> ...



This definitely sounds like an out of phase problem. .
either your wires to the amp or your headphone cable. ..
test by using another headphone and cable. ..

Replace the cables from source to your amp. .

I once received a headphone that previous owner thought he blew one driver and it was because he wire one side opposite. .

Anyways it does sound odd to have more bass on single ended when you should have much more power running out of balanced outputs. .


----------



## coinmaster

Does anyone know where I can look up how to replace the default caps with mundorf caps? I can't seem to find any guides.
 Also does bigger mean better?


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> Does anyone know where I can look up how to replace the default caps with mundorf caps? I can't seem to find any guides.
> Also does bigger mean better?


 
 coinmaster,
  
 I am in the same shoes.  I am planning to upgrade to mundorf 0.68uf 1000v Silver Gold Oil.  I modified my fans to dual 140mm and mounted them on the bottom of the case.  So I have enough room for the bigger cap.  I am not sure if bigger is better.  But we know 0.33uf had a good review and only reason he didn't go larger was because Little Dot wouldn't install bigger ones because of the size limitation.
  
 My biggest question is polarity.  I have never installed caps before and I don't want to put them on with wrong polarity.


----------



## coinmaster

what about 10uf caps(not 0.10)? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'm just not sure how I would even go about replacing them. I would assume I'd have to desolder the default caps and then solder on the new ones. I have no experience soldering electronics to circuit boards so that would suck (or any soldering skills at all).


----------



## Poladise

maxx134 said:


> This definitely sounds like an out of phase problem. .
> either your wires to the amp or your headphone cable. ..
> test by using another headphone and cable. ..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmm, I've had mixed info on whether VI+ can even be used with a SE dac fed to the amps SE inputs while using headphones connected to balanced. Obviously there's sound, but maybe it's not supposed to be used like that. I havnt tried swapping cables, Ill try that soon. Cheers Maxx


----------



## Poladise

I think the audeze cable must have been causing some issues. I started losing the left channel when the cable moved, right on the bend of the mini xlr connection on the LCD. Got a new cable now and not getting the weirdness I had.
  
 With SE dac to SE input, balanced out does sound slightly cleaner and SE out does have slightly more low end presence, but nothing like the differece there was before. I bet a balanced dac would improve the bass weight a little, people with Mjolnirs have reported the same going from SE to balanced dacs.


----------



## SoundEngineer

I am sorry to change the subject.  I need help.
 I took all the screws out that hold the board but the board will not come apart from the case.
  
 Can someone who upgraded their own capacitor help me how to go about getting this done?
 I just bought x4 Mundorf 0.68uf 1000dcv Silver Gold Oil Caps and I am stuck.


----------



## SoundEngineer

I got it out!!!  I searched through the older post and found ozaudio's post regarding caps and resistor upgrade.  I just needed to wiggle it out.
 Upgrading is not as easy as I thought.  There are so many wires and zipties.  I should have taken pictures before I cut the zipties because now I don't remember what went where =..(
  
 I think I'm going to upgrade my resistors to (Kiwame 5W 330 ohm Resistors) just like Ozaudio did only because I have the board out and I do not want to repeat this process again.
  
 Does anyone know changing x8 big blue resistors make any difference in sound quality?


----------



## Maxx134

Make sure they are the resistors and not those blue covered caps in one piece.

The resistors supposed to feed tye power tubes...

As long as your giving a bigger wattage than before you are good so it can dissipate more heat and wont burn years later...

If you wannna get critical I have been researching resistors and in crirical circuits the carbon resistors are said to induce a type of noise which is like pink noise ina way as it is not harsh noise.

To combat that different resistors are available like metal film(higher Tolerances) and also wirewound(better surge handling) there are both advantages and disadvantages in both but both are better than carbon. .

If I were you, I would look for non inductive and non magnetic I would choose one from this company:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_mills_mra5.html



Wirewound are best for surges they can take more punishment although in this amp the power should be constant and the only variable would be the type of tube as they have different heater current draw I believe this resistor feeds the heater if I am not mistaken. .

P.S:
Remember to solder the resistors away and a bit above from the main board so it can dissipate heat without affecting/heating circuit board..


----------



## SoundEngineer

Maxx134,
  
 Thank you so much for your information.  
  
 What do you think about these resistors?
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_kiwame_five_watt.html
  
 It says they are Carbon Film Resistors.  I don't know much about resistors but ozaudio had good experience so I decided to buy 8 of them in 330ohm 5W.
  
  
 Another question.  Do you think changing the WIMA caps to Mundorf Mcaps supreme for the power tubes will improve the sound quality?  Are those x8 WIMA caps right above the power tube socket where it says 6080 the output caps?


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Maxx134,
> 
> Thank you so much for your information.
> 
> ...



If you're talking about changing these caps circled in yellow :

I would say leave alone.
There are many types of caps for specific usage and not just the capacitance value. 
They should not be in the signal path at all .
only those 4 big .22uf caps are and you already changing those...

The resistors you mentioned are very good and perfect for usage in this application where they are not for signal but only for feeding the tube power.
They are carbon and the so called slight noise they may introduce does not have any result in the tube as some amps have AC to the tube heaters so really its a non issue. 
Who knows if that so called extra bit of noise in carbon resistors helps the tube heater filament give off more easily electrons.


The only reason I personally would go with "wire wound" resistor is that they are more durable and pure and can take higher surge and to me are the best,
 but still the only benifit in changing the resistors in that amp, is to have better heat dissipation so they won't burn or heat the board excessively.


----------



## Maxx134

If you want to go crazy about everything then I would suggest replacing stock fuses with ceramic fuses.

And may be a few resistors in the signal path around the two preamp stage tubes,
 but I don't know which.
plus they may already be good quality so redundant.
that's it. 

Oh and possible wire replacement to silver or silver plated which to me is wrong/redundant/unnecessary,
 because the circuit board is copper and I rather have same metal so as not to alter the conductance.
No top tube amps use silver wiring, rather most are point to point soldered..
 I personally have had undesirable effects of using silver plated with heaphone cables when swapping in my hd800,
 which were capable of detecting cable changes..


----------



## john57

I concur to what Maxx134 stated.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Maxx134,
  
 Thank you so much for helping me with your knowledge and know how.  
  
 Do you know what kind of resistors are the stock Chinese blue resistors (circled in yellow)? Are these ceramic or wire wound?


  
  
 Also, does polarity matter when I'm installing the Mundorf caps?  If polarity does matter...then could you let me know what side is positive?

  
  
 Thank you very much for your help.


----------



## Maxx134

I was mistaken in using the the word "ceramic" for carbon in speaking about resistors...

the only issue with the stock resistors was their wattage, 
which was probably good on paper but real life alotta heat in that little metal frame..

The color of stock resistor means nothing as they can be good quality but just not enough wattage rating.
Looks like a nice carbon film type but they could also be the better metal film and they do look rather large.
Find out the tolerance rating on it..

It not look wire wound although I do think the mk8 looks to be so..
Anyways just speculation. 

Usually where polarity is of concern in a circuit,
You will see the caps labeled with "plus"&"minus" symbols...
Maybe some purists like to put the Mundorf in a certain way but I would look into the data sheet pdf file on it to see if there is any benifit. 

You would have to ask or Google those that used these caps as well.
I have not used them (yet)..


----------



## john57

maxx134 said:


> I was mistaken in using the the word "ceramic" for carbon in speaking about resistors...


 
 Yes for me "Ceramic" resistors are those big air core wire round resistors which the Little Dot does not use. There is sand or cement resistors that looks like a long white block that you will see on the VI+ on the bottom side of the circuit board.


----------



## atistatic

there is something interesting for you ... http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_High_End_Capacitors.htm


----------



## john57

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
  
  

http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_High_End_Capacitors.htm


----------



## Maxx134

About the caps "I" circled, 
You "could" get all the info written on them, and compare them to the parts website to see if they sell a tigher tolerance, 
BUT!!!
 Remember the unit was adjusted to these parts for zero DC offset with the the pot for the opamp..
plus the circuit has auto-bias and I know nothing how this operate as I don't have an mk6,
So I would not touch extra parts without more research.
Only the 8 resistors and 4caps mentioned throughout thread are suggested so I would not go Rambo on it.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Yes, Maxx134!  I will not go RAMBO and ruin my MKVI+  =).  I will just stick to the x4 caps on for the audio signal and 8 resistors for power tubes.
  
  
 I was also wondering if anyone has ever tried C3g tubes on MK VI+.  I heard so many good things bout C3g or C3g S that I really want to try them out on MK VI+.  
  
  
 Has anyone succeeded on using C3g on their MKVI+?


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Yes, Maxx134!  I will not go RAMBO and ruin my MKVI+  =).  I will just stick to the x4 caps on for the audio signal and 8 resistors for power tubes.
> 
> 
> ...




Well I have a saying,
If you can't go Rambo on the guts,
Go PIMP on the body!!

Yeah I see alot of pimping potential for that baby...
*If* I had a unit,
I would go rouge with new volume knob, new feet, new transformer covers, extra guages and lighting, chrome tube cages, chrome tube dampers, socket elevation addons, extra trimm...
But I would stop at led under the tubes...
That is too much.. maybe...


----------



## SoundEngineer

LOL! Too funny. I think I have to do some of that pimping on the body. Chrome gauge covers, new chrome feet, chrome transformer cover, chrome rings around the tube base, and new volume knobs would be a nice start. 

Since i have the board taken out i might as pimp the body too.

Thanks for the awesome ideas.


----------



## Maxx134

Noooooowaahh!
I was just joking! 

lol


----------



## john57

I would like a gold or brass colored volume control but could not find it at that size for a reasonable cost. Sometimes I use heat shrink tubing on the power resistors which makes is easier to raise the resistors off the board a little.


----------



## Maxx134

Excellent idea.


----------



## SoundEngineer

I need HELP!!  I broke my MK VI+.  After I installed the Mundorf caps I can't hear anything.  My meter used to go up pas 60 DC mA.  Now both meters only go up to 20 DC mA.  Can someone please tell me what I might have done to cause this?


----------



## Maxx134

My guess is You changed the wrong caps...
show me the pic where you swapped them..


----------



## SoundEngineer

I will upload the pics today.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Maxx134,
> 
> ..
> Also, does polarity matter when I'm installing the Mundorf caps?  If polarity does matter...then could you let me know what side is positive?
> ...



these in Ur pic look like the correct ones. 
The blue ones need to be left alone.
If not check the wires around the board. .


----------



## SoundEngineer

I found my problem and I fixed it!!
  

  
 Power wire got disconnected.  I couldn't see it because it was cover with heat shrink.
  
 Because it was disconnected and the x4 big power capacitors had no where to discharge but to my body!!  After it knocked me flat on my *****, I now know what 200+V feels like.  I got a multi-meter and the caps still mesured 185V after it discharged on me.  The voltage didn't drop so I had to get use a 20k ohm resistor to remove all the voltage from the caps.  I think I almost died today. Hahaha!


----------



## SoundEngineer

Here is the finished upgrade of my Mundorf Mcap Suprem Silver/Gold/Oil 0.68uf 1000DCV caps.
  
  

  

  

  

  

  
 Caps were too big so I moved the fans out side.  I used dual 140mm slim fans and they are probably 5-7dB at 600 rpm.
 You can't hear them even if you put your ears next to them.  I'm getting at least 100 CFM of air cooling my system.
 My room temperature is 67-72 d f  and the chassis stays cold to touch even after two three hours.
  

  

  
  
 Palstidipped the cover top and bottom for extra electrical insulation.

  

  
 These fans are only 15mm thick so they work really well for this application.

  
 How does it sound?
  
 IMHO, I think everyone who owns Little Dot MK VI must do this upgrade!!!  IMHO, you would be seriously missing out if you don't do this upgrade!
 I am not sure why David would say to his customers that the Mundorf upgrade is not that noticeable?  The highs and mids are freakin unreal. Low mids and lows are really well controlled and tight.  IMO, stage is at least twice than when I had the stock WIMA caps and I am being conservative.
  
 I just can't get this grin off my face when I am listening to music after the upgrade.  Everyone who owns Little Dot MK VI / VI+ please do yourself a big big favor by doing this upgrade.  It's a must!!  You will be so glad you did it.  I have no affiliation with Mundorf.


----------



## Poladise

Nice job! (apart from the almost dying part lol). Love the fan solution too.


----------



## greenkiwi

How did you cut the holes for the fans?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

what were the fan you used?


----------



## Maxx134

Wow U got mad skills!
Truly excellent job!
I too like to know how U made holes and platic dipped the metal... and those nice fans!
Also of important knowledge is the awareness of that power cable. .

It is my opinion that the sonic benifits you herd are more specific to those model capacitors and the reason why your upgrade may be more noticeable. .

I have been thinking that the resistor upgrade may not be necessary at all with having those fans,
And also you avoid having to worry about recalibrating the trim pot for zero dc by not touching anything else..
I only would look into if one of those 3 tiny resistors are in signal path of the two pre-driver tubes..
hmmm

Anyways just a nitpick.

Congrats "SoundEngineer" glad to see Ur done such a nice job...


----------



## SonicTrance

nic rhodes said:


> what were the fan you used?


 
  
 Those are Prolimatech fans. http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/detail.asp?id=1906&page=1


----------



## john57

sonictrance said:


> Those are Prolimatech fans. http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/detail.asp?id=1906&page=1


 
 Fan with 17 blades, interesting.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes it does look good, especially for keeping ait flowing in hot valve amps. I like it.


----------



## baronbeehive

Congrats on a very good job, the fan solution is good too. Glad you lived to tell the tale, next time you do something on your amp make a will out to me first !!!


----------



## SoundEngineer

greenkiwi said:


> How did you cut the holes for the fans?


 
  
  


nic rhodes said:


> what were the fan you used?


 
  



nic rhodes said:


> yes it does look good, especially for keeping ait flowing in hot valve amps. I like it.


 
  
  


maxx134 said:


> Wow U got mad skills!
> Truly excellent job!
> I too like to know how U made holes and platic dipped the metal... and those nice fans!


 
  
  
 I used the most inexpensive 5 1/2" or 140mm Bi-metal Hole Saw for sheet metal.  I bought it for less than $16 from ebay including shipping.  
 You don't have to use this one because there are other ones you find at Home Depot or hardware stores for about $20-$54.  
 Just hook this up to your cordless handheld drill and use your brute force and make the hole larger.

  
 Plastidip is just a rubber spray that people use for their cars and rims. But since it's rubber it has good insulation so it worked really well for the bottom covers.  Color matched perfect, too.
 You can put as many coat as you want and you can make yourself a really thick rubber coating.  They do not come off but if you ever wanted to peel it of it comes off very easy there is no sticky residue like electrical tape.

  
 Prolimatech 140mm Slim Fans
 http://www.amazon.com/Prolimatech-Ultra-Sleek-Vortex-Mounting/dp/B00B1WQ4VA/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425138797&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=prolimatech+fas
  
 This slim fan can move more air than their thicker cousins.  Also, this is probably the quietest fans you can get.  Trust me...they will move at least 5 times more air than the smaller 80mm fans at dead quiete 5-7dB instead of 10-12dB @ 500-600 rpm.  The fans are so large that you don't need to crank up the rpm at all.

 Dual fan controller
 http://www.coolerguys.com/840556090236.html
  
 This is a pretty nice fan speed controller.  You don't have to use it but it's a nice option if you want to control your fans speed.

  
  
 Power supply for the fan controller
 http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html

  
 ***There is another benefit to using an external power supply instead of using the internal power for your fans.  I noticed the minute noise that I though was coming from the power tube was actually coming out only when the fans were connected to the internal power.  When I connect the fans to the internal power the noise came back so there is some sort of electrical interference or noise created from the board being connected to the fans.
  
  



maxx134 said:


> Also of important knowledge is the awareness of that power cable. .


 
 Looks like those power cables are coming from the big resistor circuit that goes to the two circle things under the heat sink cover between the transformers.  There are two of these for right and left.  I think this is why my DC mA was only going up to 20 DC mA instead of usual 60-70 DC mA.
  
 Hopefully I didn't leave any questions unanswered.
  
 I hope you guys are little more encouraged to do this upgrade.  After all I have no electrical background or knowledge (this is why I almost died! hahaha).  I learned everything from head-fi forum and I am glad I'm here to learn from the pioneers who've done it and shared with us.


----------



## SoundEngineer

baronbeehive said:


> Congrats on a very good job, the fan solution is good too. Glad you lived to tell the tale, next time you do something on your amp make a will out to me first !!!


 
 My left hand and wrist still feels tingles from the shock yesterday.  I have never been shocked in my life and I was literally knocked down from it.  I could laugh about it now because I survived to live another day and listen to my Super LDMKVI+.
  
 My learning curve shot up really high from this DIY upgrade and repair.  More I know about this amp, I have more respect for the designer and people who made this amp.  This is some serious engineering.


----------



## john57

soundengineer said:


> My left hand and wrist still feels tingles from the shock yesterday.  I have never been shocked in my life and I was literally knocked down from it.  I could laugh about it now because I survived to live another day and listen to my Super LDMKVI+.
> 
> My learning curve shot up really high from this DIY upgrade and repair.  More I know about this amp, I have more respect for the designer and people who made this amp.  This is some serious engineering.


 
 The power line that was disconnected was more likely a connection to the high voltage rectifier that sits between the transformer and has a heat sink on top. You would see a metal block on top between the transformer covers.  High voltage AC tends to be nastier than high voltage DC. That is my best guess since I do not have a circuit diagram of the VI+. Anyway you live for another day!


----------



## baronbeehive

That's definately the best fan solution, dare I say, on this thread. The others involved building extra bottom mounts in a framework with the bottom plate off which I didn't like for me anyway but your external mounted fans looks very neat with the extra large feet. What are the feet made of wood, rubber, plastic? I'm still to do my mod with the Mundorf Supremes and if they are a suitable upgrade in sound then I think I will stick with them but I must admit your high end gold/silver/oil caps are tempting. I too am surprised that David didn't rate the sound upgrade as very significant!


----------



## john57

Rubber feet would be better for vibration control. Having a external power for the fans is a great idea as long you keep the power supply away from the inputs and interconnects. Still having the bottom cover will give some protection against interference.  When I was young and my mother ran the vacuum cleaner which of course caused interference with the TV and audio equipment


----------



## SoundEngineer

baronbeehive said:


> That's definately the best fan solution, dare I say, on this thread. The others involved building extra bottom mounts in a framework with the bottom plate off which I didn't like for me anyway but your external mounted fans looks very neat with the extra large feet. What are the feet made of wood, rubber, plastic? I'm still to do my mod with the Mundorf Supremes and if they are a suitable upgrade in sound then I think I will stick with them but I must admit your high end gold/silver/oil caps are tempting. I too am surprised that David didn't rate the sound upgrade as very significant!


 
 baronbeehive,
  
 The extra large feet are made of rubber.  I went to home Depot and got these cheap rubber tips that go right over the stock rubber feet.  Then I painted it black with Plasti Dip.  This is just a temporary solution until I can find a nice looking feet with the right height to replace it with.
  
 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Shepherd-1-1-8-in-Off-White-Rubber-Leg-Tips-4-per-Pack-89122/100132623
  
 This is just my subjective experience:
 The improvement with Mundorf S/G/O is so dramatic that I thought I got a new headphone and a new amp.  This capacitor can do some real wonder.  Stage, detail, and air are just incredible.  It is able to separate the instruments and vocals so well when the music gets really busy.  I have been listening to music nonstop since I had this upgrade.  It pretty much improved the sound for all my 6SN7 drivers.  This might sound like a overstatement but it is dead true to my ears.  My stock 6SL7, Tung-sol 6sn7gtb, and EH 6sn7 with upgraded MKVI+ sound better than the Psvane CV181-TII with the MKVI+ before the upgrade.  That's how much it improved my sound.  So much more details, separation, and tightness in the low mids and lows.  The bass guitars are popping out with so much more dynamic power and presence. Definitely didn't increase the volume of lows.  Just improved the low mids and low sound to real high quality sound.
  
 I wonder what would be the magic number for the uf size.  I wonder getting bigger uf size like 2.2uf or 4.7uf would make more difference.  I am even tempted to experimenting with this by making an external capacitor bank of bigger Mundorf capacitors.  What do you think the benefit will be the bigger uf size?  Does bigger size only improve the lower frequencies or overall sound quality?


----------



## SoundEngineer

baronbeehive said:


> I'm still to do my mod with the Mundorf Supremes and if they are a suitable upgrade in sound then I think I will stick with them but I must admit your high end gold/silver/oil caps are tempting. I too am surprised that David didn't rate the sound upgrade as very significant!


 
 baronbeehive,
  
 IMHO, I think you should go with Mundorf Supreme S/G/O.  Why go through all the trouble of upgrading and get a result that might not be significantly different from the stock WIMA caps.  Because stock WIMA MKP10 are really good caps already...I am not sure how much the difference might be.  I do believe that you will definitely get less forward sound presentation and overall improve sound clarity and quality with the Mcap Supreme upgrade.  I do see the advantage of going with Supreme instead of S/G/O (that is if you think it is really an advantage) which is the size.
 You can go with Mcap Supereme up to 3.9uf and still fit it inside without touching the bottom cover.  So you can go with really big size but like I said before I don't know what would be the advantage sonically by going with bigger uf size than 1.0uf.


----------



## SoundEngineer

I thought this article might be helpful for those who are thinking about going with dual 140mm or larger fans.
  
 http://themodzoo.com/forum/index.php/topic/371-diy-guide-to-installing-140mm-cooling-fan/


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote:


soundengineer said:


> baronbeehive,
> 
> .........
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's pretty amazing, you must be in need of some sleep! It must be something to do with the unique capacitor windings. Also oil is supposed to increase the liquidity of the sound which would be missing in the standard Supremes. You are right I may not notice the difference so much over the standard WIMA's unless I go for the high end caps, but they are so much cheaper and I'm always looking out for value if I can, but ironically I may end up spending more!  Regarding the capacitance, I really don't think the human ear will notice anything over 1uF, the main difference being in the bass frequencies but extending to the overall sound by making it that much fuller overall. So don't waste your money. Also very high values can cause unpleasant perturbances in sound, I can't remember who but someone mentioned that they heard that effect, I think it was in another thread.
  


john57 said:


> Rubber feet would be better for vibration control. Having a external power for the fans is a great idea as long you keep the power supply away from the inputs and interconnects. Still having the bottom cover will give some protection against interference.  When I was young and my mother ran the vacuum cleaner which of course caused interference with the TV and audio equipment


 
  
 Yes that brings back memories, I think the same happened when my sister used the hair dryer, and of course DIY created havoc, even from next door!


----------



## levinhatz

soundengineer said:


> baronbeehive,
> 
> IMHO, I think you should go with Mundorf Supreme S/G/O.  Why go through all the trouble of upgrading and get a result that might not be significantly different from the stock WIMA caps.  Because stock WIMA MKP10 are really good caps already...I am not sure how much the difference might be.  I do believe that you will definitely get less forward sound presentation and overall improve sound clarity and quality with the Mcap Supreme upgrade.  I do see the advantage of going with Supreme instead of S/G/O (that is if you think it is really an advantage) which is the size.


 
  
 Ok, this is all making for very interesting reading.
  
 I know nothing about modding amps but I'm hoping someone can answer me this. I can't help but wonder at what point does it make more sense just to upgrade to a more expensive amp? I mean, I take it there are 4 capacitors to replace in the LD MKVI+ (I thought it was output capacitor-less, but I know nothing) which runs you $320 on Parts Connexion, plus the cost of new fans. Why not just upgrade to an amp in the $1K range? Is the MKVI+ really so much of a bargain that it's better to mod it than switch amps?


----------



## coinmaster

Unmodded, It's supposed to be on par with or better than the Woo Audio WA22 which costs $2000. So yes, it apparently is a bargain. Not that I own one yet, but that is what everyone says.


----------



## SoundEngineer

I am not writing this to convince you to buy LDMKVI+ and do the upgrade or to defend the reason to do so or make any kind of claim.  I simply don't know if there is another amp that is equal or even close to LDMKVI+ at the sub $1000 price range.  Also, doing the upgrade will cost you about $300 instead of spending $1k+ to buy another amp that doesn't even come close to LDMKVI+.  Also, half the fun is Doing It Yourself.  You get this satisfaction that no one else can give you. =)
  
 Quote:


levinhatz said:


> Ok, this is all making for very interesting reading.
> 
> I know nothing about modding amps but I'm hoping someone can answer me this. I can't help but wonder at what point does it make more sense just to upgrade to a more expensive amp? I mean, I take it there are 4 capacitors to replace in the LD MKVI+ (I thought it was output capacitor-less, but I know nothing) which runs you $320 on Parts Connexion, plus the cost of new fans. Why not just upgrade to an amp in the $1K range? Is the MKVI+ really so much of a bargain that it's better to mod it than switch amps?


 
  
 Here are some facts for my case:
  
 I bought x4 Mundorf Supreme S/G/O from Amplifier Surgery for less than $270 with shipping.  Now he is selling them for $232 total with shipping.  I am kind of pissed that he lowered his price after few weeks and made me pay $40 more. Anyways, I already bought an used LDMKVI+ for $545 including shipping (almost brand new with less than 50hr). Fan upgrade was about $80 including power supp, controller, and building materials.  So the total was 545+270+80 = $895 for me (I am always looking for the best bargain).  This is just my case and others who have bought a brand new ones paid probably $350 more than me which the total would come to $1245 give or take $20.  
  
 I am not sure if there is a BALANCED headphone amp at this price range at LDMKVI+ caliber.  If there is...please let me know.
  
 IMHO, I think if that is IF LDMKVI+ was designed, engineered, and manufactured in USA or Germany or UK...it would be somewhere around at least $2000+ range for example like Woo Audio.
 I personally like the SS rectifier design in LDMKVI+ than the tube rectifier design of WA22.  This is just my personal preference.
  
 Quote:


atistatic said:


> in my humble opinion is a stealing a amp for 2k when you can get a better amp for U$S1350 with Mundorf capacity upgrade + shipping.



  
 I totally agree with atistatic that this LDMKVI+ is a steal of the century for a headphone amp!
  
 IMHO, I think the Mundorf upgrade x4 caps $232 + fans $40 (if you don't want the spd controller and ext. pwr. sup.) = $272 is totally worth it for the people who already own LDMKVI / VI+ and people who are thinking about buying LDMKVI+ and doing the upgrade.
  
 I am not making any bold claim that LDMKVI+ is better than WA22.  I have not personally heard WA22 and I do not have slightest interest in hearing it anyways.  I personally think Woo Audio is expensive and priced at where it is because it is designed and made where labor cost is higher. Not because it is a better amp than LDMKVI+.  I seriously doubt that paying $1250 more than MKVI+ for an WA22 is going to get me $1250 worth of better sound quality.  Price to sound improvement ratio doesn't work in terms of bargain.
  
 I am so happy and satisfied with LDMKVI+ with the Mundorf upgrade that I will not be doing any more mods (except for "pimping the body") or buying new tubes to reach that sound nirvana...for awhile.  I still need to get me a quad set of WE421A or at least Tungsol 5998.
  
 This is just purely my subjective view and insight and not a claim.


----------



## levinhatz

> This is just purely my subjective view and insight and not a claim.


 
  
 SoundEngineer, thanks for your reply. I've been reading these forums on and off for a few years - I don't post that much but I do like reading what folks have to say. There are a lot of very dedicated people on this forum, and you are certainly one of them.
  
 Does replacing the caps involve soldering? Is there a tutorial somewhere to peruse?
  
 Not saying I'm gonna do it, but it has always been an intriguing idea. I've gone as far as replacing the fans on my MK VI+, that's it.


----------



## coinmaster

I'd like to know as well.


----------



## SoundEngineer

levinhatz said:


> SoundEngineer, thanks for your reply. I've been reading these forums on and off for a few years - I don't post that much but I do like reading what folks have to say. There are a lot of very dedicated people on this forum, and you are certainly one of them.
> 
> Does replacing the caps involve soldering? Is there a tutorial somewhere to peruse?
> 
> Not saying I'm gonna do it, but it has always been an intriguing idea. I've gone as far as replacing the fans on my MK VI+, that's it.


 
 Levinhatz,
  
 I am not sure if I am a dedicated person of this forum, but I do believe that I am one of the lucky people who made a great decision to buy LDMKVI+ and enjoy all the benefits.
  
 Yes, you have to desolder the stock WIMA caps and solder the upgraded caps of your choice/taste.
  
 Yes, the tutorial is on this forum broken into bits and pieces in many different postings.  I had to look through all the old postings and photos.  I have no electrical background.  All I know how to do is solder and make my own cables.  This was a very scary and seemed impossible task to do.  But I was highly motivated to reach that Sound Nirvana and took on the task myself (because my local amp guys would charge me an arm and a leg).  The result is beyond my expectation and I am in the Sound Nirvana that I have never experienced.
  
 I have to be truthful and not hide any downside of this mod with Mundorf S/G/O.  If your source is not perfect...you might not enjoy your music.  As much as it made the sound really good...this is a highly accurate and micro-detailed capacitor and now I'm hearing all the flaws in the recording, inferior compression of files, and mistakes in the music.  The studio that recorded my wife's 1st album CD actually clipped at the busiest and loudest part of the song and this can be heard with the studio equipment at the studio.  I was not able to hear this with the stock WIMA cap because the sound was somewhat smeared and mumbo jumboed.  But because the Mundor S/G/O is so good at separating the instruments and is so accurate and detailed that I can hear all the details just like I was at the studio when they were recording.  This Mcap S/G/O might make you become a critical listener instead of just enjoying the music.  For those who want to enjoy the music might want to go with Silver/Oil which is said to be much more forgiving and musical.
  
 IMO, for me the benefits of Mcap S/G/O overshadows this one downside of too much accuracy and micro-detail. As long as your source music is mastered perfectly and in a lossless format then Mcap S/G/O will enhance the enjoyment  by bringing out all the highlights of the music.  Also, for some of you this might not even be a downside if this high accuracy is what you are looking for in your music.


----------



## SoundEngineer

This is my PIMP MY AMP project.
  
 Stage 1:
 Gold meter and gold volume knob.

  

  
  
 Stage 2: (future project)
 Laser engrave or stencil with gold color for faded away Little Dot MK VI+ logo and marking for Power button.
  
 Stage 3: (future project)
 Sand blast the transformer cover, solid state rectifier cover, SE and balanced output. Then gold pate them all.
 Also gold plate all six brass ring and the XLR connector to match with the overall gold on black theme.
  
 Stage 4: (future project)
 Replace the black rubber feet with gold feet.


----------



## baronbeehive

In reply to levinhatz, yes we are all nutters!! I agree with SoundEngineer, we've stumbled across the bargain of the century, more by luck than design in my case and trying to get the best sound possible out of our systems is all about getting all the parts to work well together. Because amps will not necessarily have the best possible parts in them from the start due to manufacturing costs it's fun to see if we can remedy this ourselves. Some amps do strive to have the best possible components from the start, such as in house hand wound caps, transformers and such like but they are the exception,although the mkvi does have many quality components from scratch. The mkvi is already cheap so it makes sense to spend a bit - or a lot - depending on your viewpoint, to make it that little bit better. I've had mine for 6 years and looking to keep it now so I want to make it as good as I can to enjoy well into the future. I also like the sound signature of the mkvi and it would be a minefield to change it now for something else and possibly disrupt the very thing I like about the system. I can't think of anything that I would change to in the price range or higher, until we are talking much more. But the main reason to change would be to have something with a differenty type of sound for example the 330B, EL84, push-pull, SET, all have their different characteristics.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Little Dot mk VI++ Mundorf Mcap Editon.
  
 Here is the mock-up before laser etching for gold lettering.  
 This is what it should look like or even better after the gold color lettering.
 I changed the Phones 1 to Balanced and Phones 2 to SE.

  
 The stock lettering was painted using silk screen and rubs off real easy and the Logo was rubbed off and looked bad.  So I decided to laser etch so it will be permanent and will never rub off.  Since I had to do this anyways I wanted to have little more fun by making this go with same color scheme of Mundorf capacitor gold on black theme.  Now this will be one of a kind special edition.


----------



## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> Little Dot mk VI++ Mundorf Mcap Editon.
> 
> Here is the mock-up before laser etching for gold lettering.
> This is what it should look like or even better after the gold color lettering.
> ...


 
 Nice job, love your mods so far! Be sure to check the spelling before you laser etch though. It looks like it says "blanced" instead of balanced. Also, a shiny volume knob instead of matte would kick things up another notch i think


----------



## SoundEngineer

sonictrance said:


> Nice job, love your mods so far! Be sure to check the spelling before you laser etch though. It looks like it says "blanced" instead of balanced. Also, a shiny volume knob instead of matte would kick things up another notch i think


 
 MisterX,
  
 Thank you so much for your proof reading!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I learned in high school that it's always good to have someone read your rough draft.
  
 I totall agree with you on the shiny knob.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I already ordered a gold plated solid brass knob from China and the one in the picture is just for temporary to give me an idea of what it will look like.
  
 Thanks for your encouraging comment.


----------



## Maxx134

atistatic said:


> there is something interesting for you .. links... ..



John57 fixed links here:



john57 said:


> http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
> 
> 
> http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_High_End_Capacitors.htm




Thanks alot for these links they explain greatly on the sound description of different caps and show that the Mundorf gold/silver/oil are at the top of the best and probably the best upgrade possible of most improvement in this amp as the design is already so well designed. 

It was stated in this thread the .67uf is at limit of where spund benifit is herd and a 1uf was stated to increase bass level slightly.
Going beyond that size would likely be an unknown as to hiw it would affect the design.
My personal fear is current surge to input stage of power tubes..
Since I don't have clue of design. 

For the mk8se amp, 
which less memebers here have,
the caps don't have to be as large,
due to it using much smaller 12xx7 type tubes for the pre- stage..
So .22 was the only available recommend upgrade over the stock caps...
 A Member PMed me that .33uf was ideal for the mk8,
So I would not pass .47uf for the mk8 due to same reason too much of a good thing (capacitance) is not necessarily a safe thing for inputting into the power tube stage.
That's my personal opinion altough I have not looked into it .


----------



## SoundEngineer

Volume knob backlight.  This wasn't in my original modding plan but I decided to just give it a try and see how it looks.  I think it turned out ok.  I am going to change the color to orange or orange-yellow to match the two side meters or the orange glow of the vacuum tube heater.
  
 I still need to adjust the led positions to even out the light coverage.

  
 With low power mode you can just see the ring around the volume knob.

  
 With high power mode you can see the volume level markings as if they are glowing.

  
 Maybe red or orange-red might be more close to the color of the vacuum tube heater.  I guess I will have to buy bunch of LED and just experiment until I get the right color.


----------



## levinhatz

That's looking pretty zexy....


----------



## Benny-x

levinhatz said:


> That's looking pretty zexy....


 
 agreed! Especially that frontal... With that illuminated ring! Damn. I don't know I'd change it, if only for that.


----------



## SoundEngineer

levinhatz said:


> That's looking pretty zexy....


 
 Yes, I do think it's pretty zexy, too.
  


benny-x said:


> agreed! Especially that frontal... With that illuminated ring! Damn. I don't know I'd change it, if only for that.


 
 Yes, indeed the frontal is my favorite shot just like everything else...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thank you for your positive comment.  I will try to get the best "frontal" shot as possible when everything is done.  I will also take some shot of the "back side"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of the knob to show how I laid the LED's.


----------



## SoundEngineer

*I am seriously bothered and need some help.  I seriously need some kind of explanation to why this is happening.*
  
 Here is what I did: (my goal of upgrading the resistors was for better internal heat management...I really didn't need to because of the upgraded fan mod.  I did not do this for sound improvement)
  
 Bottom x4 stock Chinese resistors were replaced with Vishay Dale CW-5 330ohm wire wound resistors.

  
 Also the top x4 stock Chinese resistors were replaced with Vishay Dale CW-5 330ohm wire wound resistors.

  
 The result is slightly improved liquidity (LDMKV+ was never grainy to begin with, it made the sound slightly more liquidity), very subtle extended decay, very very slightly delayed attacked, and slightly and very subtle softer attack.  Because of this stage seems lot wider with more depth.  Sound is lot more pleasing to my ears.  I don't feel like I'm in the front of the stage anymore.  I am just shocked. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I love this sound so much that it freaking bothers me!!  When there is an improvement I need to know why and make sense of it and explain to others to recommend it.  But I don't know what happened here.  I did not expect a slightest change or improvement in my sound signature because this upgrade was just for the improvement in heat dissipation. But this resistor upgrade unexpectedly raised level of the sound quality up another notch.
 I thought these resistors were not in the signal path?  The fact is they are not and this is what bothers me.  Why is there subtle but noticeably pleasant sonic improvement?!!  Now I can't do anything!  I can't go to work, eat, and sleep!  All I want to do is listen to all my favorite music.
  
 Am I using a resistor that's not the size that was originally designed for?  Is it the quality of the resistor?  (I believe LDMKVIII SE comes with Vishay/Dale resistors stock but smaller size.  I don't know the ohms rating.) Or is it the combination of Upgraded capacitor and the resistor combination?  Or is it that my Mundorf S/G/O is burned in and it's true sound signature is coming out?
 I wish someone can give me their opinion and thoughts to explain this situation.


----------



## G600

I clearly stated q while ago that the resistor upgrade over those blue piece of sh... is as big as the cap upgrade.
 I don't know if there is any metal into those metal films, but them being in the signal path is naughty.


----------



## SoundEngineer

g600 said:


> I clearly stated q while ago that the resistor upgrade over those blue piece of sh... is as big as the cap upgrade.
> I don't know if there is any metal into those metal films, but them being in the signal path is naughty.


 
 G600,
  
 I am sorry I didn't read your impression regarding the resistor upgrade.  I would have done this upgrade first before anything if I read your review and also if knew how much improvement it was going to make.  
  
 I agree with you on the fact that the sound improvement is as big as the cap upgrade.  The sound improvement is subtle but they are in the noticeable category such as soundstage, decay, attack, and Liquidity.  The improved liquidity is creating smoother harmonics and the improved decay and attack also accentuated the harmonic overtones.  I thought my sound can't get any better after the Mundorf upgrade but I couldn't believe my ears and was literally in shock that it was so pleasing to my ears.
  
 My question is how is this possible.  How can changing the resistor for the power tubes that are not in the signal path make such a pleasant and beautiful improvement?  I got x10 Vishay/Dale resistors for $8.  That's $.80 each and times 8 equals $6.40.  How can $6.40 upgrade make such a pleasant improvement?  This doesn't make sense to me.  I got way with more that what I asked for.  I am a logical guy and things has to make sense logically.  I did the resistor upgrade only to overkill the internal heat protection...but now I got both better heat management plus sound improvement.
  
 G600, you and I both know and experienced that there is a huge I mean HUGE benefit to upgrading the resistors.  But can you please explain to me in scientific or electronic terms on why there is this improvement in liquidity, extended decay, delayed and somewhat soft attack that makes the sound so pleasing to the ears?
  
 After note:
  
 Here is another important improvement that I forgot to mention.  The power output also improved.  I used to listen with my volume level at 30 mark.  But now I am listening at 20 mark.  I can't listen at 30 mark anymore because it's way too loud.  My gain setting has not been altered, they were at low setting before the upgrade and after the upgrade.  Could this improvement in power output be one of the many factors that improved the sound signature and quality?


----------



## coinmaster

You know mundorf makes resistors too right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Also wirewound resistors are inferior to metal film resistors so there could be room for even more improvement.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> You know mundorf makes resistors too right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, Mundorf makes real high quality resistors that are pretty expensive (not that expensive compared to caps).  I don't mind expensive but couldn't find any M Resist Supreme that were 5w 330ohm.  Also I thought that they didn't make anything over 52ohm.  I might be wrong...I hope I'm wrong so that I can use them in my LDMKVI++SE.  Also the diameter size might be too big.  They are ok for the bottom side but the top side has very little clearance and you have to solder them very close to the PC board so they don't touch the top cover.
 Back to your point.  Yes, we need to find the highest and best quality resistor we can find to install them in LDMKVI because they are very inexpensive and they make a huge improvement.


----------



## coinmaster

The wattage on a resistor just means that's the maximum it can handle right? So a 10w resistor would work?


----------



## john57

coinmaster said:


> The wattage on a resistor just means that's the maximum it can handle right? So a 10w resistor would work?


 
 yes but only if the circuit will draw anywhere near the maximum.


----------



## baronbeehive

SoundEngineer, the improvements you describe are consistent with the signal purity increasing though like you I was sceptical about resistor improvements in SQ. But I changed my USB cable for a wireworld ultra violet and noticed the same improvements which I was not expecting in a digital cable at all. I think as your system approaches the ideal you are better able to notice improvements due to synergy.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> You know mundorf makes resistors too right? :wink_face: . Also wirewound resistors are inferior to metal film resistors so there could be room for even more improvement.



from my limited time to research I believe the metal film have a high accuracy and are less susceptible to internal inductance & capacitance while not having the issue of the normal carbon resistor heat generated noise, BUT
BUT....

The best wirewire-wound are still superior 

They have greater purity of conductance combined with greater handling of transient power surge ability.
The newer better ones do not have capacitance issues like older ones while having superior ability to withstand heat.

The real issue hear is the realization that in real life, everything matters to a "real" entity, that being the actual real electrons being affected by the materials they go thru, whether that is a capacitor or resistor or the elements within the tube type you selected to use...

Reality bites when written paper theory and schematics do not account for the variables of materials in actual use.

This is the delema when circuit design is limited by the quality of the materials used which can give benifits to both longevity and quality of sound. 
It mostly winds up to financial reasons to maintain profit.


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> from my limited time to research I believe the metal film have a high accuracy and are less susceptible to internal inductance & capacitance while not having the issue of the normal carbon resistor heat generated noise, BUT
> BUT....
> 
> The best wirewire-wound are still superior
> ...


 
 Maxx134,
  
 Thanks to you, I took your advise and went with the wire wound resistors and I am pretty confident that I don't have to replace them with metal film resistors. I am just speculating that the ones I bought are the old resistors that were made before Vishay bought Dale.
  
 To support your point that the wire wound resistors being superior to metal film I found this interesting article.  I actually found this article after I upgraded my amp with the wire wound resistors. This is an old article but it doesn't hurt to read and learn more about advantages of wire wound resistors in terms of noise levels.  But Metal Foil Resistors sounds like a better choice in terms of noise and linearity.  But this is just one article and I don't want to bet everything on this one article.
 http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278251
  


baronbeehive said:


> SoundEngineer, the improvements you describe are consistent with the signal purity increasing though like you I was sceptical about resistor improvements in SQ. But I changed my USB cable for a wireworld ultra violet and noticed the same improvements which I was not expecting in a digital cable at all. I think as your system approaches the ideal you are better able to notice improvements due to synergy.


 
 Baronbeehive,
 Thank you so much for your explanation on why this sound improvement was happening.  Purity of the signal and synergy makes whole lot of sense.  I am also skeptical like you and thought to myself that upgrading resistors was going to do nothing.  But I was wrong and shocked.  
 I just placed an order few mintues ago for a wireworld ultra violet usb cable
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 after reading your noticeable difference in SQ with the usb cable change.  My skepticism about the resistor upgrade was wrong.  My skepticism about the headphone cable upgrade was wrong. And now I want my skepticism about the USB cable upgrade to be wrong also.  Now I am thinking everything matters!  Every little component can change the SQ.  It seems like there is so much more potential and sky is the limit for upgrading this LDMKVI.


----------



## baronbeehive

.....


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## baronbeehive

Great - I hope you hear the difference as I did, they are claimed to reduce jitter, important for digital audio cables as opposed to ordinary digital cables and also claim to have superior insulation of the power component. I don't want this to be an advert for the cable however, I'm sure others offer such benefits as well. One wonders how much more of an improvement you can get with all your mods!! I did think with your previous post that something was wrong, such as what happened to ozaudio, but not so apparently, far from it........
  
 Quote:


soundengineer said:


> *I am seriously bothered and need some help.  I seriously need some kind of explanation to why this is happening.*
> 
> ..................


----------



## john57

*SoundEngineer*
  
 Not everything with the resistor change in sound quality was positive in my book.  But if you like the results that all that maters.


----------



## SoundEngineer

john57 said:


> *SoundEngineer*
> 
> Not everything with the resistor change in sound quality was positive in my book.  But if you like the results that all that maters.


 
 john57,
  
 I agree with you that all that matters is I like the sound.  This was a very pleasant surprise.  I like to be surprised with an unexpected improvement rather than expecting an improvement and get disappointed with a negative result.
 When there is an improvement...I want to know what was the factor and process.  I am just one of those person who needs to know the reason and understand what happened.  If I "know why" instead of just "know how"...then I can repeat the same improvement or improve on top of the improvement.  Upgrading the capacitor to high quality capacitor in the signal path is no brainer and makes sense and this was an expected result which I am more than happy with.
  
 Resistor upgrade didn't only improve the SQ but also improve the output efficiency.  I am still waiting to see if someone can explain why my volume output improved also. My normal listening level was at 30 mark before the upgrade.  But now I'm listening at 20 mark and at 25 mark it feels little uncomfortably loud and I can't even listen at 30 mark anymore. This is totally mind boggling.  Am I using less or more resistance than the what it was originally designed for with the Chinese resistors?  Is it the quality of the resistors that's more efficient?  I understand that purity of signal and synergy makes sense for improve sound quality.  But what about the output efficiency?
  
 I am sorry for asking too many questions.


----------



## john57

When you change the resistors you may have changed the total value of resistance for that group of resistors. The resistors that was there might had a 10% tolerance. The new ones that you put in may only have 5% or 1% tolerance and the total value may have changed. In turn that changes the operating point of the tubes. That is why tube amps with tube rectification sounds different with different rectifier tubes because of different voltage drops of the rectifier tube.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Thanks for your explanation and I think what you said makes total sense regarding total value of resistance.
 The resistors I used have 5% tolerance 330ohm 5watt.  I wonder if there's a way to find out what the ohm rating and tolerance are on the original blue resistors.  Also, the original blue resistors sound and feel like they are made of glass when I hold them on my hands.
  
 Is there any LD MK VIII SE owners that can verify that their amp came with the upgraded Vishay/Dale black resistors (that look just like mine but smaller size) instead of the blue resistors?  There must be a good reason why Little Dot would upgrade or use Vishay/Dale resistors instead of the blue chinese resistors in their MKVIII Special Edition model which they stated that it's more specialized than MKVI+ for no-compromise performance for high impedance headphones.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> ....
> I just placed an order few mintues ago for a wireworld ultra violet usb cable:wink_face:  after reading your noticeable difference in SQ with the usb cable change.  My skepticism about the resistor upgrade was wrong.  My skepticism about the headphone cable upgrade was wrong.
> And now I want my skepticism about the USB cable upgrade to be wrong also.  Now I am thinking everything matters!  Every little component can change the SQ.  It seems like there is so much more potential and sky is the limit for upgrading this LDMKVI.



You should look into getting a WYRD for USB.
IT clean up the dirty power and reclock the digital signal so it adresses any such issues going to the dac.


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> You should look into getting a WYRD for USB.
> IT clean up the dirty power and reclock the digital signal so it adresses any such issues going to the dac.


 
 I will add that to my list of upgrades.  IMO, spending $99 to greatly reduce jitter is a bargain.  Plus this is just Plug and Play
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you don't have to open up the DAC and solder anything.  This means I have to buy another high quality Wireworld UV USB cable to go from WYRD to DAC.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> I will add that to my list of upgrades.  IMO, spending $99 to greatly reduce jitter is a bargain.  Plus this is just Plug and Play you don't have to open up the DAC and solder anything.  This means I have to buy another high quality Wireworld UV USB cable to go from WYRD to DAC.



you are corectly on track about differences in USB...
I friend of mine delt with a dealer who let him try USB cables for a fee and whichever he like he could pay the difference. 
He tried about five and was not happy untill he bought the AudioQuest carbon.
That is a silver plated like the wireworld but I believe the wireworld is even better because of its design of separating the power:

Wireworld also uses silver content which is the main benifit in transiting those clock signals that can get masked by internal interference of dirty power line within(!) The cable...
I myself noticed a difference over cheapo printer cable unsing the AudioQuest carbon and believe the wireworld should be superior in isolation the power line interference Which to me is number one cause of the digital signal degradation.
IMO.


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> you are corectly on track about differences in USB...
> I friend of mine delt with a dealer who let him try USB cables for a fee and whichever he like he could pay the difference.
> He tried about five and was not happy untill he bought the AudioQuest carbon.
> That is a silver plated like the wireworld but I believe the wireworld is even better because of its design of separating the power:
> ...


 
 Maxx134,
  
 I used to be on the other end of the group who believed that cables don't matter.  Just because I used to work with a recording studio and also a live sound engineering company...I was a "Solid State sounds better believer" and "cables don't make difference".  I thought I knew it all and Hi-Fi tube people were just some crazy people who think they hear the difference that doesn't exist.  Everything changed after I bought Little Dot MK II...then I was lucky enough to find this LD MK VI+ at a bargain.  Seriously, I would have paid more for this LD MK VI+ if I auditioned it first and knew how good it sounds.   Solid State design is necessary for the analytical and accurate recording of the sound...but the tube amp sounds so much better when listening because of the natural and organic harmonic overtone that can never be generated by a solid state processor and EQs.  Then the cables.  Just by changing from stock headphone cables to Canare and Mogami cable was like night and day!  I was reading many debates regarding better USB cables for DACs.  I was still on the other side of the group..."USB cables will not make any difference, digital is digital!!!"
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 When baronbeehive said his WW UV USB cable made a difference I was like What?!!!  Is this guy for real?!  But then I was wrong about the cables, resistors, and tube amps.  The reality is I don't know S&^T about anything.  I was humbled and realized that I am just a ignorant SS guy who thinks he knows it all.  I can't say anything until I give it a try and experience it so I ordered the WW UV 7 USB cable from amazon.com prime.  If it doesn't work...then I can return it.  It's simple as that.  I don't believe everything that people say.  I am very skeptical.  But there is a very plausible scientific evidence that digital is not just digital and it can be dijitter because of the clock timing. 
  
 Right now I am connecting my Yulong D200 straight from PC using a cheap USB cable that came with my old printer about 5 years ago.  Because LD MK VI+ is such a high quality amp I was that much more able to hear the distinctive SQ difference between the stock headphone cable (with balanced mod) and my Mogami balanced cable with Cardas connectors.  I am not going to raise my expectation that I am going to hear that much difference from the higher quality USB cable.  I like to be surprised with unexpected improvements.  I don't want to be right about my assumptions any more.  I want to be wrong and get a positive result.
  
 So far so good.  IMHO, LD MK VI+ is a rare amp in the headphone amp industry where the "law of diminishing return" doesn't apply in my case at least.  Upgrading from LD MK II to LD MK VI+ was like a night an day for me.  I paid about x3 times the cost of LD MK II for MK VI+ but I feel like I got at least x10 times better sound!!!  Plus with $270 capacitor upgrade...I feel like I got more than $1270 worth of better sound because I do believe that my LD MK VI+ sounds way better than the other similar amp that's more than twice the cost.
  
 Anyways, I will soon find out what the sound difference will be between the cheap printer USB cable alone vs. WWUV7 USB alone vs. cheap USB cable with Schitt WYRD vs. WWUV7 with Schitt WYRD.  I will also record the sound from LD MK VI+ preamp and make a comparison track for each category and upload it to see if you guys can hear the difference.  Kind of like a blind test.  I will record the sound with WAV 24bit 96kHz this is the best I can get with my home ADC.  This will not be a professional recording and this is not intended to prove or disprove that USB cables make difference.  I just want to do this for pure fun project.  I do believe that LD MK VI+ preamp is really high end that it will pick up all the differences and be able to transfer them to my digital recording device.


----------



## Maxx134

I used to think that tubes was all about "tube sound"..
That is a huge misconception and stereotype!

The best tube amps yes will have a certain tube flavor or signature because of yes the tube's harmonics...BUT
BUT..

Noooowwahhhh
we been foooled!

There are aspects of sound that, in the world of amplifiers, 
solid-state simply can't not match tubes....

Palpable instrument separation...
space and depth...
3d feel soundstaging...
Air and presence...
Last but not least:
micro (plankton) details..

Those are all what tubes have to offer in more abundance, over solid-state..

Mainstream Audio always placed tube gear at the top and another stereotype is that it is a nitch for crazy rich old timers..

Bottom line is that there's something more that is going on, 
 and so far, nothing surpasses Tube gear for amplifiers. .


----------



## che15

Did u find an expensive one? If so would u please send me the link.
Thanks


john57 said:


> I would like a gold or brass colored volume control but could not find it at that size for a reasonable cost. Sometimes I use heat shrink tubing on the power resistors which makes is easier to raise the resistors off the board a little.


----------



## baronbeehive

maxx134 said:


> I used to think that tubes was all about "tube sound"..
> That is a huge misconception and stereotype!
> 
> The best tube amps yes will have a certain tube flavor or signature because of yes the tube's harmonics...BUT
> ...


 
 Agreed - that's my view, for realism above all else. But don't forget nowadays there's some pretty amazing SS gear around, I don't think it's true to say that tube=best even though that's my personal opinion.
  
 Also the Wyrd - I was just wondering whether these devices are necessary now, we could be in danger of being overtaken by events. Just look at all the asynchronous DAC's around now, most have circuitry that cleans up the signal, that's why I mentioned a while back that I don't think balanced is automatically necessary as well. If you just go with a good async DAC then you shouldn't need any additional interfaces such as that. Also I don't know about the connectivity on the WYRD but you may be able to use BNC connectors in which case you might not need another WW USB cable. Others such as the Audiophilleo connect directly to the DAC using BNC's.


----------



## SoundEngineer

baronbeehive said:


> Also the Wyrd - I was just wondering whether these devices are necessary now, we could be in danger of being overtaken by events. Just look at all the asynchronous DAC's around now, most have circuitry that cleans up the signal, that's why I mentioned a while back that I don't think balanced is automatically necessary as well. If you just go with a good async DAC then you shouldn't need any additional interfaces such as that. Also I don't know about the connectivity on the WYRD but you may be able to use BNC connectors in which case you might not need another WW USB cable. Others such as the Audiophilleo connect directly to the DAC using BNC's.


 
 This is such a great point you brought up.  I have Yulong D200 DAC that has the jitter elimination function.  With jitter elimination turned on I noticed improved delicate and crisp sound.  Do I really need WW UV USB cable and WYRD when my DAC already took care of the jitter?
 I don't know the answer to this question until I give it a try myself.  IMO, for me there is no need for debate whether better USB cables and USB signal cleaners will make the sound better.  If the USB cable cost some crazy $500 then I would say screw that s$%^!  But $49 for a very high quality USB cable is reasonable and worth a try.  Also $99 for a USB signal cleaner is also reasonable price to me.  
  
 Two senarios:
  
 -If it doesn't make any difference in SQ...then I will be happy that my DAC is good enough to eliminate all jitters and I ended up with a very nice looking USB cable.  I will probably return WYRD because I believe in straight connection is always better.  Just because it didn't make any difference for my setup it doesn't prove that USB cables don't make difference or WYRD is snake oil.  There can be many variables.
  
 -If the WWUV7 USB cable or WYRD or combination of the two made slightest improvement...then I will be ecstatic that my sound improved even more than before!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also I will become a believer that cleaner signal through USB cable will make improved SQ.
  
 It's a win win situation for LDMKVI+ and LDMKVIIISE owners.  IMO, we pretty much underpaid for our amps and now we can use that money usefully on some rare tubes, high quality cables, capacitors, and good DACs.  IMO, we now have money to blow because we saved so much by buying LDMKVI and LDMKVIIISE.


----------



## SonicTrance

che15 said:


> Did u find an expensive one? If so would u please send me the link.
> Thanks


 
 I got one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321503331820?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT on the way. Looks pretty nice I think.


----------



## baronbeehive

soundengineer said:


> ........
> 
> It's a win win situation for LDMKVI+ and LDMKVIIISE owners.  IMO, we pretty much underpaid for our amps and now we can use that money usefully on some rare tubes, high quality cables, capacitors, and good DACs.  IMO, we now have money to blow because we saved so much by buying LDMKVI and LDMKVIIISE.


 
  
 I like your thinking........ you've just given me the excuse to spend yet more money I haven't got! Re: the USB cable I don't know how it reduces jitter because it doesn't have any clocks in it but I think the improved power line insulation achieves the desired result. Indeed there are solutions out now that remove the power line element from the USB and do this independantly.


----------



## Maxx134

.... 





soundengineer said:


> ....
> 
> It's a win win situation for LDMKVI+ and LDMKVIIISE owners.  IMO, we pretty much underpaid for our amps and now we can use that money usefully on some rare tubes, high quality cables, capacitors, and good DACs.  IMO, we now have money to blow because we saved so much by buying LDMKVI and LDMKVIIISE. :wink_face:



I am now officially an LDMKVIIISE owner! 

Time to see what this baby can do next to my oppo HA-1..


----------



## baronbeehive

Great news...... let us know what you think. That's a first for this thread I believe! I've just splashed out on a new DAC now that I've got the OK from SoundEngineer - OUCH !!


----------



## Maxx134

Time for the occasional stupid questions oF the Day...

1-Why does the unit take so long to turn on?
2-Do you here a sound when Meters switch on?
3-finnally, what are the tiny black tabs for?


I have the MKVIIISE..
does the MKVI have tabs too?

Woops that makes four questions


----------



## john57

maxx134 said:


> Time for the occasional stupid questions oF the Day...
> 
> 1-Why does the unit take so long to turn on?
> 2-Do you here a sound when Meters switch on?
> ...


 
 Tubes takes time to warm up and stabilized. The right meter will then switch on and a relay will engage for the full outputs.  That black tabs kind of look like fuses on my VI+ it uses round fuses but have not taken cover off.


----------



## coinmaster

I received my MKVI+ yesterday but I don't yet have any balanced cables for anything nor any sort of dac. I spend long periods of time staring at it's pretty lights while I slowly fall into madness, wondering what It sounds like. It will be a month or 2 before I will be able to afford a dac and balanced cables.
 The lights....they are so pretty..........


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> I received my MKVI+ yesterday but I don't yet have any balanced cables for anything nor any sort of dac. I spend long periods of time staring at it's pretty lights while I slowly fall into madness, wondering what It sounds like. It will be a month or 2 before I will be able to afford a dac and balanced cables.
> The lights....they are so pretty..........



dam that is sad!
U can connect something to its line in and use single ended jack!


----------



## Maxx134

john57 said:


> Tubes takes time to warm up and stabilized. The right meter will then switch on and a relay will engage for the full outputs.  That black tabs kind of look like fuses on my VI+ it uses round fuses but have not taken cover off.



thanks for info.
the black tabs are jumpers but Im not sure yet what for Exactly. .


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> thanks for info.
> the black tabs are jumpers but Im not sure yet what for Exactly. .


 
 Congratulations!!  That is one sick looking tube amp you got there.  Yours look way better than the ones on Little Dot website or any pictures I've seen floating around in the web.  Your OPPO is freakin sick also.  I really want to hear impression comparing to your OPPO.  I know it's not about which one is better...because it's not an apples to apple comparison.
  
 Let's open up that beautiful thing and find where those jumpers might go.  If you don't see any jumper pins...they probably sent those as free accessory for your pimping project
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 I know MK II / III / IV uses jumper pins to change settings for E91, E92, and E95 family tubes.  Do you think you have an option of using different tubes than 12AT7s?  Let's take a look what's underneath that beautiful body.


----------



## john57

maxx134 said:


> thanks for info.
> the black tabs are jumpers but Im not sure yet what for Exactly. .


 
 There are gain switches on my VI+ and those jumpers may do the same thing instead of using switches. Without a photo of the mother board I am not sure. There has to be places on the mother board for the jumpers. I have not read anything about your model taking different tubes.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> I received my MKVI+ yesterday but I don't yet have any balanced cables for anything nor any sort of dac. I spend long periods of time staring at it's pretty lights while I slowly fall into madness, wondering what It sounds like. It will be a month or 2 before I will be able to afford a dac and balanced cables.
> The lights....they are so pretty..........


 
 You are making me get depressed because I can almost feel your pain not being able to experience the SOUND NIRVANA!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Just hook it up with on your SE with any CD/MP3/DAP and listen through 1/4" SE headphone connection.  At least you can get used to what it sounds like with inferior source and later experience the improvement with a balanced DAC and balanced headphone cable.  But be forewarned that through SE you will hear ground noise.  The ground on MK VI+ is connected to ground on your outlet and it picks up all kinds of s$%#.  This is why I don't use SE at all.  I know there are lots of ways to get rid of the noise but I don't even bother because I just modded all my headphones to balanced.  Why don't you just go to some pro audio shop and get Neutrik male 4pin XLR and mod your cable?  I was listening to my LDMKVI+ with balanced HD650 with unbalanced connection straight from PC (it was terrible) until I got my balanced DAC.  But meanwhile I was at least able burn in the amp and listen to some music until my DAC arrived.  For me it was not out of phase at all.  So just give it a try instead of just stare at it.


----------



## coinmaster

The sad part is I don't have anything with RCA outputs, so I couldn't hook it up to anything If I wanted to. I'm going to barely have enough money for my dac in april. What's REALLY sad is I got this extra job with a landscaping company so I can earn money for my dac and it decided it's going to to stop snowing the day after I got hired, after it snowed every other day for weeks and weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Maxx134

I got zero ground noise on single ended, even using my Audio Technica esw9ltd portable units that have low impedance so should be more susceptible to any noise...
Also I am using what I consider the best power strip for the money that performs for real to clean and isolate,
 and as good as any expensive unit..

It is the Furman PST-8D..
Took a long time researching to find out.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> The sad part is I don't have anything with RCA outputs, so I couldn't hook it up to anything If I wanted to. I'm going to barely have enough money for my dac in april. What's REALLY sad is I got this extra job with a landscaping company so I can earn money for my dac and it decided it's going to to stop snowing the day after I got hired, after it snowed every other day for weeks and weeks :mad: .



dam I know how U feel (a bit) as I have to let go my oppo to get my dac..


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> The sad part is I don't have anything with RCA outputs, so I couldn't hook it up to anything If I wanted to. I'm going to barely have enough money for my dac in april. What's REALLY sad is I got this extra job with a landscaping company so I can earn money for my dac and it decided it's going to to stop snowing the day after I got hired, after it snowed every other day for weeks and weeks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What kind of connection do you have on your music players?  I am sure you used 1/4" stereo connector to listen to your HD800 right? or may be 1/4" with 3.5mm adapter.  You can get a 3.5mm stereo to RCA or 1/4" stereo to RCA cable.  These cables are not that expensive.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monoprice-9300-6ft-Mobile-3-5mm-Stereo-Male-to-RCA-Stereo-Male-Cable-/391036787801?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0b9bdc59
  
 You can listen to your LDMKVI+ without a DAC or balanced cable.


----------



## coinmaster

I have a $4000 PC I built and an o2+odac combo in 1 unit, not separable. I suppose I could buy that adapter and use the o2+odac although I'd be hooking up 1 amp into another. I suppose it's the same thing with a computer jack though isn't it.


----------



## Maxx134

Yes still better than computer audio jack


----------



## Maxx134

Ok so this amp kept me up late so I will post a partial update.

The amp sounds just marvelous with the hd800 but that was expected.
Edit:
if I wasn't using the 18ECC pre tubes that have slightly lower gain of 40 instead of 60, 
The volume levels between the two amps would be almost the same with volume positioning. .
Edit:
Found out my gain switches inside were set to low gain so if I set to high it would probably be louder or equal to oppo depending on headphone impedance..


I would keep the oppo as control& dac, 
but I am upgrading.


This combo is sweet, but the mk8 costs twice the price of the oppo with best tubes installed.

Stock also was excellent they didn't put cheapo tubes in the mk8 as I got gold pin tubes for the driver but the smaller preamp tube was an obvious updrade choice.

The unit with stock feet got as hot as the oppo with extra feet...


using the mk8 with added silver feet was a very big improvement in heat as it took and hour to get close to the oppo heat level yet still remained slightly less hot and this unit has no fans(!)
Remember this is the mk8 unit I realize this thread has less posts of that.

that's all for now although I also have some "modest" (not  ) upgrade plans for this unit,
 and will post the cap upgrade for this unit once done and find out exactly what different resistors are installed Compared to the mk6.


----------



## coinmaster

I found an rca adapter in a drawer and hooked the amp up to my o2+odac. It sounds gloriously bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. All kinds of harshness and distortion and buzzing, I never deoxidized the pins either.
 In any case it sounds 10 times better listening to just the odac itself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 However the sound does have a kind of gooeyness to it with the tube amp compared to the SS amp, I'm sure there's an audiophile terminology for it that I don't know. Maybe it's just the sound is slower, It's kind of pleasant actually but it does seem a bit slower which technically wouldn't be a positive. Also it seems like it is lacking treble, which I hope isn't normal because I love my highs, If the highs aren't high then I won't be able to enjoy the music.
 I hope I didn't waste my money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 need those highs.


----------



## Maxx134

I hope U didn't have the O2amp gain pushed in and volume past halfway for the mk6 line level inputs..
As for loss of treble can't say but not sound normal


----------



## coinmaster

No I didn't. Most of the noise I was getting was actually feedback from the usb. I could hear when I moved my mouse around and stuff.
 As for the treble, I think it's the "warm" sound of tubes that everyone talks about? Warm means good lows/mids and less treble right?
 I can live without bass but I need excellent highs and mids, you could say that I enjoy "bright sound.
 I hope there is a way I can make the sound "neutral" instead of "warm" otherwise there's gunna be problems.


----------



## Maxx134

I would plug in a headphone to the O2 to make sure it is not putting out a dull sound in case there is some EQ unknowingly involved. .
I would look into this thread about stock tubes if the cause as swapping tubes changes signature and that amp should be as clear as mine.


----------



## baronbeehive

I disagree that tubes=less treble, the treble is the same in extension but just rounded off slightly to give a much more smooth realistic sound for me. The main effect of tubes is on bass - looser, and midrange - more realistic. You may think there is less detail but that is because the sound is not so bright. However if you want this you can certainly get tubes that will provide a bright sound such as Sylvania 6sn7 and Svetlana 6N5S.


----------



## coinmaster

I never said there was less detail I'm just saying the highs don't sound high. They feel more like mids to me, like they're being dragged down.


----------



## Poladise

coinmaster what gain setting do you have on your VI? Low & high sound quite different on mine. High gain has way stronger bass and impact, but with very rolled off highs. Switch to low gain and the highs are crystal clear again, but almost too little bass. I'm still using single ended at the moment though which may have something to do with this.


----------



## coinmaster

It's on low. I'm hoping it's just the fact I'm running it out of an o2 with usb feedback and oxidized pins through an unbalanced set up with stock tubes.
 I want my highs to screech, I want them to be way up there. Currently it just sounds like there's some sort of barrier that is keeping the highs in the mid range.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> It's on low. I'm hoping it's just the fact I'm running it out of an o2 with usb feedback and oxidized pins through an unbalanced set up with stock tubes.
> I want my highs to screech, I want them to be way up there. Currently it just sounds like there's some sort of barrier that is keeping the highs in the mid range.


 
 coinmaster,
  
 When did you get this amp?  IMHO, you need some burn in time.  You have to give your tubes and amp some time to burn in.  Just calculating the time you got the amp and the time you just hooked it up...you barely had less than 24 hours of burn in.
 My amp sounded like that even tho it was used for 50 hours.  The person who sold it to me gave me tubes that were still brand new in the box.  The initial impression of the sound was some what congested, closed and blanketed.  So I left it on for at least 8 hours with random sound generator, pink, white, brown, and frequency sweeps every night before I went to bed.  The sound seemed little better after few days.  Then after 1 week my tubes settled and everything opened up.  Then I learned this is what burn in is all about.  The sound just kept getting better and better until it reaches it's maximum burn in requirement.  So IMO, you need to just keep listening to your favorite music and few days later you will be like "Wow"
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 You will be so addicted to the sound you will never be able to listen to your o2 again.  This is like drug.  You will start buying different tubes to feel that "high" (no pun intended)


----------



## Maxx134

I have to agree about burn in but my new stock tubes had a but more mids and I swapped them out for my own tubes.

The LDMK8SE I have has extreme clarity and just as much treble as my now sold oppo amp.
 Just a different somic presentation I assume from the driver tubes.

I have the HD800s as my main headphone and feel I made an excellent move in chosing this amp..


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> I have to agree about burn in but my new stock tubes had a but more mids and I swapped them out for my own tubes.
> 
> The LDMK8SE I have has extreme clarity and just as much treble as my now sold oppo amp.
> Just a different somic presentation I assume from the driver tubes.
> ...


 
 Indeed, you have made an excellent move.  I like your silver twin transformer covers towering over your tubes.  Your tube amp looks way better than silver WA22 with those transformer covers.


----------



## coinmaster

soundengineer said:


> coinmaster,
> 
> When did you get this amp?  IMHO, you need some burn in time.  You have to give your tubes and amp some time to burn in.  Just calculating the time you got the amp and the time you just hooked it up...you barely had less than 24 hours of burn in.
> My amp sounded like that even tho it was used for 50 hours.  The person who sold it to me gave me tubes that were still brand new in the box.  The initial impression of the sound was some what congested, closed and blanketed.  So I left it on for at least 8 hours with random sound generator, pink, white, brown, and frequency sweeps every night before I went to bed.  The sound seemed little better after few days.  Then after 1 week my tubes settled and everything opened up.  Then I learned this is what burn in is all about.  The sound just kept getting better and better until it reaches it's maximum burn in requirement.  So IMO, you need to just keep listening to your favorite music and few days later you will be like "Wow"
> ...


 

 You're right! I've been letting it run every 8 hours with 1 hour breaks and after checking a few minutes ago the "barrier" on the highs is rising! Not quite at the ceiling yet but no longer stuck in the mids. Glad I didn't blow my money


----------



## SoundEngineer

baronbeehive said:


> Great news...... let us know what you think. That's a first for this thread I believe! I've just splashed out on a new DAC now that I've got the OK from SoundEngineer - OUCH !!


 
 What DAC are you getting?  I am very interested on your decision of what brand.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> You're right! I've been letting it run every 8 hours with 1 hour breaks and after checking a few minutes ago the "barrier" on the highs is rising! Not quite at the ceiling yet but no longer stuck in the mids. Glad I didn't blow my money


 
 My friend, you just wait...it's only gonna get better.  You will soon be getting more than just "high".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 You didn't blow your money.  You just bought an amp that gives you excuse to blow your money on other things.
 I will give you permission to splashout on a high end DAC just like I gave permission to baronbeehive.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, there are capacitors that will help you get closer to that screeching highs and offensively forward sound you are looking for...I forgot the name and brand but I will let you know once I can find them again.


----------



## baronbeehive

soundengineer said:


> What DAC are you getting?  I am very interested on your decision of what brand.


 
  
 I was looking at 4: Metrum Hex, Auralic Vega, Benchmark DAC2 and Eximus DP1, the first 2 being way too expensive, and I finally picked up the DP1 second hand. Still by far my most expensive bit of kit, and its all your fault 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Really pleased because its got a pre as well. Your DAC looks good though!
  
  


soundengineer said:


> My friend, you just wait...it's only gonna get better.  You will soon be getting more just "high".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 One of the reviews of the mkvi says that the treble is very sweet......


----------



## coinmaster

I've had them running for a total of 28 hours so far and I'm noticing that sound is definitely colored. A lot of the sound and instruments don't sound like they would in real life. I don't spose anyone knows any tubes that have a neutral, solid state sound to them?


----------



## marshallmole

coinmaster said:


> I've had them running for a total of 28 hours so far and I'm noticing that sound is definitely colored. A lot of the sound and instruments don't sound like they would in real life. I don't spose anyone knows any tubes that have a neutral, solid state sound to them?


 
 Are you using stock tubes? They are said to be very mediocre. 
 Lot's of tube rolling options out there. 6SN7, 6SL7 for driver tubes, 6AS7G/6080/5998/7236 for power tubes. 
 I'm using Tung-sol 6SU7 and Sylvania 7236, pretty neutral sound.


----------



## coinmaster

Soundengineer recommended to me the CV181-TII and Winged "C" 6AS7G tubes. Any comment on them soundengineer?


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote:


coinmaster said:


> I've had them running for a total of 28 hours so far and I'm noticing that sound is definitely colored. A lot of the sound and instruments don't sound like they would in real life. I don't spose anyone knows any tubes that have a neutral, solid state sound to them?


 


baronbeehive said:


> I disagree that tubes=less treble, the treble is the same in extension but just rounded off slightly to give a much more smooth realistic sound for me. The main effect of tubes is on bass - looser, and midrange - more realistic. You may think there is less detail but that is because the sound is not so bright. However if you want this you can certainly get tubes that will provide a bright sound such as Sylvania 6sn7 and Svetlana 6N5S.


----------



## baronbeehive

Failing that a SS amp will give SS sound such as the Dayens Ampino or T amp, both incredible value.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> Soundengineer recommended to me the CV181-TII and Winged "C" 6AS7G tubes. Any comment on them soundengineer?


 
 coinmaster,
  
 On your PM you asked me if I was using CV181-TII with Shuguang 6AS7G.  I replied back to you that winged "C" 6AS7G with Psvane CV181-TII combination I was able to achieve most dynamic sound so far.  I only replied back to you with my impression and I did not recommend them to you.  I have also said that there is no right or wrong tube combination and you just have to keep experimenting until you find a good tube combination that works for you.  I just wanted to make that clear first.
  
 After that being said, Psvane CV181-TII is still the most airy, articulate, balanced, neutral, breathy, clear, crisp, detailed, far depth, DYNAMIC, FOCUSED, lush, liquid, natural, open, punchy, high resolution, smooth, sweet, tight, and transparent tube that I've heard so far.  I have not heard any of the Holy Grail of 6SN7 such as Tungsol VT231, Sylvania VT231, or Hytron JAN-CHY-6SN7GT which are over $200 matched pair.
  
 But I did compare my Psvane CV181-TII to Full Music 6sn7 "B" grade which is same as Sophia Electric 6SN7 "B" grade.  Only difference between the "B" and "A" grade is "A" grades are more closely matched in pairs.  CV181-TII pretty much destroyed Full Music/Sophia Electric in all aspects.  Sophia Electric 6SN7 was just a tiny bit better than my Electro Harmonix 6SN7EH.  I felt like I wasted my $180 buying Full Music/Sophia Electric.  The seller is willing to take returns so I'm going to return them.  For $180 I can get a really nice pair of Kenrad VT231 Black glass or RCA VT231 smoked glass.  This is entirely my subjective view and hopefully I do not discourage anyone from buying Full Music/Sophia Electric 6SN7.  You might have a different impression and experience than mine.
  
 I will stop here about tubes. You can find a lot of helpful reads and impressions on 6AS7G  http://www.head-fi.org/t/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here   and 6SN7  http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts
  
 YMMV


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote:


soundengineer said:


> ..........  I have not heard any of the Holy Grail of 6SN7 such as Tungsol VT231, Sylvania VT231, or Hytron JAN-CHY-6SN7GT which are over $200 matched pair.
> 
> But I did compare my Psvane CV181-TII to Full Music 6sn7 "B" grade which is same as Sophia Electric 6SN7 "B" grade.  Only difference between the "B" and "A" grade is "A" grades are more closely matched in pairs.  CV181-TII pretty much destroyed Full Music/Sophia Electric in all aspects.  Sophia Electric 6SN7 was just a tiny bit better than my Electro Harmonix 6SN7EH.  I felt like I wasted my $180 buying Full Music/Sophia Electric.  The seller is willing to take returns so I'm going to return them.  For $180 I can get a really nice pair of Kenrad VT231 Black glass or RCA VT231 smoked glass.  This is entirely my subjective view and hopefully I do not discourage anyone from buying Full Music/Sophia Electric 6SN7.  You might have a different impression and experience than mine.
> 
> ..........


 
  
 I'm not surprised about the Full Music tubes. While I have heard people rave over them, my experience with a 12ax7 was that they are perfectly acceptable but lack that really nice deep musical sound that you get with NOS tubes. It had a kind of fragile sound that you often get with new issue tubes from China, I think the Psvanes that you've got are the best of the new issues from what I've heard. Agreed that mine was a 12ax7 for my speaker amp but my experience is that tubes makers seem to have a sort of house sound at the risk of generalization. The house sound of Tungsols is a very liquid sound which is not neutral, although that mainly applies to the round plates, (holy grail type). The Sylvanias have a characteristic crisp sound which is why I recommended them for SS lovers, even a 6SN7 GTB would sound like that and they are very cheap. But I can't understand why someone who likes SS sound would get a tube amp.


----------



## coinmaster

baronbeehive said:


> Quote:
> But I can't understand why someone who likes SS sound would get a tube amp


 
 Ignorance. I'm new to audio and I don't know what "tube sound" is or what most of the audiophile glossary represents. I just do what people recommend to me. All I'm trying to do is give my hd800 a soul so they are more euphonic and less stale.
 People say tubes breath life into the HD800 and SS amps keep them soulless.
 However I don't want colored sound. For example the stock tubes on my MKVI+ sound unnatural. Almost none of the sound is convincing, it definitely sounds fake or colored. I want to close my eyes and think the band is in the room.


----------



## baronbeehive

I hear what you say, and don't mean to criticise. I really thought that tubes would take the edge off the HD800's which some say can be harsh, but you might like that sound. It all depends on your taste. I agree with you that stock tubes will not sound good. The trouble with this digital age we are in we are used to hearing harsher sounds, which to me are not what real music is, perhaps you could try a couple of tube recommendations and stick with it and your ear may get accustomed to the sound. If not, hey, there are many good SS amps out there and you will find what you want but we are hear to help.


----------



## coinmaster

I don't find the HD800 to be harsh particularly. I just find they lack any kind of character. The superior sound and neutrality they posses seems to come at a price of raw, stale sound reproduction without euphony.
 If I had a pair of headphones with the supreme sound capabilities of the hd800 that had a more musical character it would be my perfect headphone. Here's hoping the HE1000 is that headphone. Unless this amp can do the job.
 Once I get a dac, better tubes, and balanced cables, and a capacitor upgrade, hopefully everything will change.
 How much of a difference does balanced cables make anyway?


----------



## baronbeehive

Yes, I have to come out of the closet - I don't like Sennheisers, I hesitate to say that because I know others love them, but I don't for the reasons you say. I think it could be the headphones that is your problem not the amp, sennheisers are notoriously difficult to amp as well. I really don't want to get into recommending headphones because of the expense and I know what I like but I don't know if you will!! I suggest you have a look around.
  
 Balanced cables can make minimal difference or a lot of difference depending on the system.


----------



## coinmaster

baronbeehive said:


> Balanced cables can make minimal difference or a lot of difference depending on the system.


 
 What about this system?


----------



## baronbeehive

Minimal, WITH MY HEADPHONES, but I do know that they can make quite a difference with Sennheisers, which I don't have. Have a look at HiFiMan sound and LCD sound, they are quite opposite and will help you make up your mind what type of sound you are looking for.


----------



## coinmaster

I've already determined I'm keeping the HD800. I had the TH900 for a while and auditioned the t1, lcd-2, lcd-3, and lcd-xc. The lcd-xc sounded closest to the HD800 and had sweeter mids but it was too expensive, and there's something about the quickness and imaging in the hd800s that is next level compared to other headphones.
 The thing I learned about most other headphones is that they don't typically have a flat frequency response. The hd800 is like a perfectly lined up equalizer while the others squiggle all over the place.
 In light of this, I decided the HD800 are my safest bet if I don't want to spend a zillion dollars buying every headphone.
  
 Right now I'm just trying to get a feel for priorities. My assumed priorities are balanced cables>tube upgrade>capacitor upgrade. I've heard that without a balanced set up I am only using "half" of the amp as well (whatever that means).


----------



## baronbeehive

OK, you've had a good look! Headphones are a compromise, no can is perfect for every situation or genre of music. If you want to keep the senns how about another occasional can that images the sound closer to your location in the soundstage as an alternative for certain types of music, it doesn't have to be expensive. I''ve  found that this type of can is most musically and emotionally engaging than the headphone that puts you way back in the soundstage like the senns which can sound cold and distant.
  
 I was thinking Alpha Dog, Audio Technica or something but these don't have flat frequency curves, not many do. Personally I want headphones without a completely flat curve to make them sound more interesting without overcoloration. You're looking at HiFiMan, that would be a good idea. Maybe someone could PM coinmaster to avoid hogging the thread.
  
 Any thoughts anyone???????


----------



## coinmaster

I keep being recommended the HD 650. So that is what I will probably end up buying if the HE1000 doesn't blow my mind when I audition it.
 Soundengineer listens to the same music I do (Touhou music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and he claims audio nirvana with the HD650. Getting touhou to transport me to heaven has been the ultimate goal of mine in this endeavor.
 However the first order of business is to get my new MKVI+ up to standard. Need to buy those balanced cables and tubes and such. It's going to cost me about $900 bucks just for all that and I still don't even have a dac.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yes a great can, but the HD650 is not euphonic and you may have the same problems you've got now. My final thoughts before I shut up for good, what about a closed back can with wooden earpieces to give a warmer but still accurate presentation.
  
 Goodbye!!!


----------



## coinmaster

I had the TH900s, supposedly the best closed back there is. There was definitely hints of euphonism (is that a word? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) while listening to them which I don't get with the HD800 but I could not get over the recessed mids.


----------



## Poladise

coinmaster said:


> Right now I'm just trying to get a feel for priorities. My assumed priorities are balanced cables>tube upgrade>capacitor upgrade. I've heard that without a balanced set up I am only using "half" of the amp as well (whatever that means).


 
  
 It may be a different story with your phones, but with my LCDs, using a balanced cable without a balanced dac just thins the sound slightly and it's maybe slightly wider. I don't think you'll get much improvement with the balanced cable unless you're running from a balanced dac. I cant wait to get one and see what difference it makes.


----------



## Maxx134

I have question about when unit first starts up and once warmed up, 
Do the meters jump up or gradually go up to bais level?

What is the average meter level?


----------



## coinmaster

For me the left meter light turns on and after 3 minutes, both lights turn on and go to 60 on the meter. I'm pretty sure that's average. They don't gradually move, it's sudden.


----------



## Androb

poladise said:


> It may be a different story with your phones, but with my LCDs, using a balanced cable without a balanced dac just thins the sound slightly and it's maybe slightly wider. I don't think you'll get much improvement with the balanced cable unless you're running from a balanced dac. I cant wait to get one and see what difference it makes.


 
 SE output can't even be compared to the balanced. The sound on SE is boring and lacks in all aspects in comparison to the balanced. I don't think you use the whole amp tho with the unbalanced input? I use balanced input and output and I can't even listen to the SE since there's alot of noise and lacking dynamics.
  


maxx134 said:


> I have question about when unit first starts up and once warmed up,
> Do the meters jump up or gradually go up to bais level?
> 
> What is the average meter level?


 
 You get different values with different tubes.


----------



## SoundEngineer

My experience with HD650 with ldmkvi with balanced dac and balanced output is night and day compared to se input output. just for the sake of this discussion I did some extended listen last night with A/B test of se and balanced with same dac and headphone. 
With SE it's closed, muffled, and smudged. With balanced I feel this fresh air, open, and clear sound with perfect bass. IMO, I almost want to belive that LDMKVI wasn't meant to be used in SE. 
I also modded my ath-m50 with balanced cable with terminal. difference in ath-m50 was even greater. Initially it sounded like I lost all my bass but that was not the case. The bass sound was more accurate and tighter. The highs are lot more pleasant to listen to.

IMO, LDMKVI in fully balanced mode will enhance all the key characteristics of certain headphones. 

I just can't listen to anything in SE anymore.

I made my own balanced cable with mogami cable with neutrik xlr. I am using AQ evergreen rca for se. IMO, cable qualities are not the factor on this A/B test.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Indeed, you have made an excellent move.  I like your silver twin transformer covers towering over your tubes.  Your tube amp looks way better than silver WA22 with those transformer covers.



I have just been looking at the WA22 and noticed that although is has balanced design at front, the output section has a single ended design due to how the transformers are connected, 
So I can see how it would not be as optimal as a LDMKVI or LDMKVIIISE. ..



In my view, transformer coupled output designs is great for speakers, 
But not optimal for headphones which can retrieve detail at far less power requirments. .

IMO tube differences and clarity is more noticable without a dam transformer in between..
Tubes straight to the headphones. .

OCL design. .


Same thing applies to caps.
We can notice differences with coupling caps so why not transformers?
Not much is said about output transformers probably because buyer has no control over as that is bigger design choice.

Also doesn't most high end stuff use circuit boards?
Duh, so why is circuit board shunned in tube amps?
Wouldn't you want a mirror image circuit on both channels instead of a dam mess of "point-to-point" wiring?

All these are reasons why I don't see any "TRUE" (100%) balanced tube amps beating the LDMK6&8 in $2-3k price range..
Maybe I haven't looked hard enough?


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> My experience with HD650 with ldmkvi with balanced dac and balanced output is night and day compared to se input output. just for the sake of this discussion I did some extended listen last night with A/B test of se and balanced with same dac and headphone.
> With SE it's closed, muffled, and smudged. With balanced I feel this fresh air, open, and clear sound with perfect bass. IMO, I almost want to belive that LDMKVI wasn't meant to be used in SE.
> I also modded my ath-m50 with balanced cable with terminal. difference in ath-m50 was even greater. Initially it sounded like I lost all my bass but that was not the case. The bass sound was more accurate and tighter. The highs are lot more pleasant to listen to.
> 
> ...



This observation is not specific to the amp as U I have perceived the EXACT SAME descriptions using my Solid State Oppo HA-1 in the past.
It also said to apply very much to the Ragnarok balanced out better over single ended so..
as much as people can deny it, defending their single ended units.. saying it's the design that matters..
Blah..
In real world usage Balanced makes a difference(!)


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> I have just been looking at the WA22 and noticed that although is has balanced design at front, the output section has a single ended design due to how the transformers are connected,
> So I can see how it would not be as optimal as a LDMKVI or LDMKVIIISE. ..
> 
> 
> ...




This point that you made clear sense why there's so much difference in SE and balanced mode. with LDMKVI/VIII you get the true tube sound straight to your headphone with balanced mode. Sort of like you get what you put in. 

I almost feel sorry for WA22 owners because they got conned thinking they have balanced amp. How is it balanced when pin 3 are joined. I don't know too much about WA22 but if this schematic is really true...then how the heck is this a balanced amp? It is a total scam! Why don't they just put a SE out put? Wow I am so glad I didn't fall for this.

if I bought WA22 then later found out how good LDMKVI and VIII are...I would probably sell it right away and buy LD and buy all the upgrades with rest of the money.


----------



## Maxx134

I also read there are other very highly regarded tube amps that are not 100% balanced design. .
Like having a "single-ended" input stage (!) And then going balanced from there..
I won't say who but not hard to find..


----------



## SoundEngineer

Please correct me if I am wrong. Isn't ldmkvi like true dual mono balanced amp? isn't this like one ldmk9 for left channel and one ldmk9 for the right channel? If you use ldmkvi in SE mode it would be like using one ldmk9 with double the power but the signal will be one signal split in half with +and- for right and left channel with ground.

If this is correct then it confirms what Androb said "not using the whole amp".

IMO, if anyone bought LDMKVI to be used only in SE mode...that person just blew his or her money away. he or she should have got LDMK9 and get the same SQ.

Then someone might say "why don't I get two mk9 for the true dual mono block balanced SQ?" IMO, answer is simple...LDMKVI cost significantly lot less money for the same achievement.


----------



## Maxx134

Do not misunderstand the WA22 to me, isn't a ripoff( by not being 100% balanced)...
It is a design choice.
A solid balanced amp WITH single ended output. 
So it still retains benifits of balanced in amplification stage...
Still an excellent quality amp I am not knocking it down, under the LD...
Rather,
I am elevating LD to WA22 level, and then above due to extra points mentioned . .
WA22 is undisputedly a great amp. .


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong. ...
> ...
> 
> Then someone might say "why don't I get two mk9 for the true dual mono block balanced SQ?" IMO, answer is simple...LDMKVI cost significantly lot less money for the same achievement.



MK9 is stereo single ended design so not same as balanced design inside even if you used each in mono..
more like single ended mono..


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> Do not misunderstand the WA22 to me, isn't a ripoff( by not being 100% balanced)...
> It is a design choice.
> A solid balanced amp WITH single ended output.
> So it still retains benifits of balanced in amplification stage...
> ...


 
 Don't worry.  I did not misunderstand your point about WA22 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  And don't worry about WA22 lovers having beef with you about pointing out the obvious fact.
  


maxx134 said:


> I have just been looking at the WA22 and noticed that although is has balanced design at front, the output section has a single ended design due to how the transformers are connected,
> So I can see how it would not be as optimal as a LDMKVI or LDMKVIIISE. ..





> All these are reasons why I don't see any "TRUE" (100%) balanced tube amps beating the LDMK6&8 in $2-3k price range..
> Maybe I haven't looked hard enough?


 
  
  
 It says it's FULLY BALANCED HEADPHONE AMP.  I would think that "FULLY" would apply from input all they way to output.  This is purely just my point of view.

  
 My point is not to say WA22 is a piece of $h$T, because I don't know how it sounds.  But if this thing does lack in sound quality compared to  LDMKVI+ which I have read on some posts plus now that you mentioned that it doesn't have balanced output which I didn't know until you pointed it out...there's really not much for me to think about.  This is just my subjective view and I can agreed to disagree with all the WA22 lovers for their own reasons.  I do not want to argue or say that LD is better than WA or convince someone to buy LDMKVI+ or LDMKVIIISE instead of WA22.  I am just expressing my thoughts based on the facts not rumors or my imagination.  The schematic shows that pin 3 are joined (this is a fact).


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> MK9 is stereo single ended design so not same as balanced design inside even if you used each in mono..
> more like single ended mono..


 
 Exactly.  That is my point.  It's pointless even if you were some how able to tweak it to mono block mode.


----------



## Maxx134

I just noticed that the amp plays thru the xlr headphone jack even before the meters kick in...
does this occur on your mk6? 
I have the mk8 but I believe same general design


----------



## john57

maxx134 said:


> I just noticed that the amp plays even before the meters kick in...
> does this occur on your mk6?
> I have the mk8 but I believe same general design


 
 With the pre outs being driven by the input gain tubes after a short warm up yes. But the power tubes for the headphones will not output until the amp is warmed and both meters are online.


----------



## Maxx134

**** mine does it...
no output for a while then it comes in suddenly but meters don't jump up till a bit after...
now I gotta email to see if This normal for my version as I just got mine last week.. (mk8)
didn't hear any click or change in music with headphones on and see meters are up while I was typing


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> **** mine does it...
> no output for a while then it comes in suddenly but meters don't jump up till a bit after...
> now I gotta email to see if This normal for my version as I just got mine last week.. (mk8)
> didn't hear any click or change in music with headphones on and see meters are up while I was typing




For me as soon I turn it on I can hear music. It sounds some what like my ldmkii. It sounds weak but volume can be controlled. I wonder if this is how my driver tube sounds like without the power tubes. Then I hear a click with little bit of buzz sound of my transformer kicking in or something and the right meter turns on. Then both needles go to 60 to 75 depending on the power tube. as soon as the needles go up the sound cuts out dead silent for few seconds then suddenly Full lush sound comes out. I thought this was normal and I have never questioned about it. Is this normal?


----------



## Maxx134

When I first got my unit this same thing about the meters clicking so I guess it's normal but my needles poped to limit before bouncing down to 60..
I am going to now let it cool down and see..
but dam it's hard to turn off ( as in not want to ).


----------



## coinmaster

Mine does tha-+


soundengineer said:


> For me as soon I turn it on I can hear music. It sounds some what like my ldmkii. It sounds weak but volume can be controlled. I wonder if this is how my driver tube sounds like without the power tubes. Then I hear a click with little bit of buzz sound of my transformer kicking in or something and the right meter turns on. Then both needles go to 60 to 75 depending on the power tube. as soon as the needles go up the sound cuts out dead silent for few seconds then suddenly Full lush sound comes out. I thought this was normal and I have never questioned about it. Is this normal?


 

 Mine does the same.


----------



## john57

soundengineer said:


> For me as soon I turn it on I can hear music. It sounds some what like my ldmkii. It sounds weak but volume can be controlled. I wonder if this is how my driver tube sounds like without the power tubes. Then I hear a click with little bit of buzz sound of my transformer kicking in or something and the right meter turns on. Then both needles go to 60 to 75 depending on the power tube. as soon as the needles go up the sound cuts out dead silent for few seconds then suddenly Full lush sound comes out. I thought this was normal and I have never questioned about it. Is this normal?


 
 You would have another relay like click right after the full swing of the meter a second later in my case before the full power of the ouput tubes are engaged. The DC offset needs a bit of time to settle to stabilize the output. I never plug in my headphones until the amp is warm up.


----------



## coinmaster

john57 said:


> You would have another relay like click right after the full swing of the meter a second later in my case before the full power of the ouput tubes are engaged. The DC offset needs a bit of time to settle to stabilize the output. I never plug in my headphones until the amp is warm up.


 
 It says on the instructions not to plug or unplug your headphones while in operation.


----------



## john57

maxx134 said:


> When I first got my unit this same thing about the meters clicking so I guess it's normal but my needles poped to limit before bouncing down to 60..
> I am going to now let it cool down and see..
> but dam it's hard to turn off ( as in not want to ).


 
 The meters popped to the max because the meters needles are moving so fast they overshoot because of the mechanical inertia of the needles that are attached to coils. The signal is not really going to max. If you look closely at the meters you will find it just undershoot a bit and then settle to the final reading. That is the DC op-amps adjusting the offset. You would not want DC at the outputs. With the Schiit lyr which also uses DC servo the muting relay does not always prevent DC offset at the output before the  DC servo had time to adjust when the load is connected. With the Lyr 2 the DC servo action is improved as per Schiit. I did measure the DC offset  of my LD VI+ and it was more stable during operation than my Schiit Lyr.


----------



## john57

By the way the meters on the LD VI+ have more circuity inside of them that I am trying to understand at this point.


----------



## john57

coinmaster said:


> It says on the instructions not to plug or unplug your headphones while in operation.


 
 Sorry, but that is baloney. I have to wait for warmup otherwise I will get surges with the headphones or monitors.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> It says on the instructions not to plug or unplug your headphones while in operation.



Haha I was doing just that when comparing the LD to my oppo ha1.
switching headphones back and forth while both playing. .

I agree 100% with john57 to wait for unit to kick in and settle (warm up) before plugging in headphones unfortunately I did leave my HD800 in whole time and nothing bad happened so that's good,
but now that I know, I won't be taking anymore chances. .


----------



## SoundEngineer

john57 said:


> Sorry, but that is baloney. I have to wait for warmup otherwise I will get surges with the headphones or monitors.


 
 Agreed. Better safe than sorry.
   
 Quote:


maxx134 said:


> Haha I was doing just that when comparing the LD to my oppo ha1.
> switching headphones back and forth while both playing. .
> 
> I agree 100% with john57 to wait for unit to kick in and settle (warm up) before plugging in headphones unfortunately I did leave my HD800 in whole time and nothing bad happened so that's good,
> but now that I know, I won't be taking anymore chances. .


 
 Agreed.  Better late then never.  
  
 I will heed the advice of the wise and save my headphone from getting permanently damaged.


----------



## coinmaster

If you just turn the volume down wouldn't it prevent this "surge". The surge is what sounds like baloney to me.


----------



## baronbeehive

I never start playing music until the unit is warmed up and avoid switching the unit off and on again immediately, I think it is best practice with tubes if you want them to last.


----------



## john57

coinmaster said:


> If you just turn the volume down wouldn't it prevent this "surge". The surge is what sounds like baloney to me.


 
 That is not always going to happen. The surge can be pops, clicks and DC offset. Having the rest of your equipment turned on from the source to the amps before you use the headphones or engage the monitors is always a good idea in the long run. You can not always tell which equipment will have a turn on or warm up surge. I did had pops with my LD VI+ in the beginning with the line outputs engaged. My VI+ will not sound its best until 40 minutes warm up anyways. One time I had a problematic Bendix tube that tested good on two of my rebuilt and calibrated  tube testers but failed in my LD when operating at higher voltages. The meters did not read the same. When that happens I turn off my LD and investigate the issue before using the amp again. I rather have the meters read the same before I plug in my headphones.  
 The Schiit lyr unit had more of a problem with DC offset than the LD unit I have. Even though that my Lyr has a muting relay, I wait until the timer for the muting relay is finished  before I plug in my headphones.  I follow good practice.


----------



## coinmaster

Why would it say in the instructions not to mess with it during operation if it is not bad though?


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> If you just turn the volume down wouldn't it prevent this "surge". The surge is what sounds like baloney to me.


 
  
 I can still hear the clicking and power tube noise even if I turned the volume all the way down.  Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like the volume control only attenuates the preamp but not the power tube.
 I think this is why you can still hear buzz, pop, click, sizzle, and all kinds of yucky noise from the bad power tube even if you have your volume is all the way down.
  
 I had to try to confirm if this was correct.  I turned the amp on > HD650 already connected to balanced output > right meter turns on and needles go up > KABAAM!!! the popping and buzzing sound of power tube kicking in can still be heard even the volume is turned all the way down.
  
 Does this mean the power surge can still go to the headphone?


----------



## coinmaster

Sorry to get a little off topic but. My financial situation is a little unstable right now. I was originally going to purchase the questyle cas 192d dac  ($2000) and then do tube upgrades and such at a later time.
 However I may have to rethink that scenario and go for a cheaper dac. I have $1400 to play with for dac and upgrades. In your opinion, would tube/cap/resistor/cable upgrades be superior to a dac upgrade from $600 to $2000?


----------



## greenkiwi

@coinmaster there are lots of good... less expensive DACs.  (they might not be as good as the 2k DACs... but they still sound really really good.)
  
 some examples with balanced outputs
  
 http://schiit.com/products/gungnir
 https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/stealth-dc-1


----------



## Poladise

greenkiwi said:


> https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/stealth-dc-1


 
  
 I'm trialling one of those tomorrow. Great reviews and not too expensive.


----------



## baronbeehive

coinmaster said:


> Sorry to get a little off topic but. My financial situation is a little unstable right now.........


 
  
 I know the feeling..........


> ...........
> However I may have to rethink that scenario and go for a cheaper dac. I have $1400 to play with for dac and upgrades. In your opinion, would tube/cap/resistor/cable upgrades be superior to a dac upgrade from $600 to $2000?


 
 All I can say is I've changed USB, headphone cable, RCA's and the changes have all been significant, also Caps, also tubes. The ones I mentioned are cheap so you could try them to get an idea of the sound and decide whether you like it, they're not my cup of tea but that means nothing, if not try others, they are bound to improve the sound over stock tubes. Tubes are great because they are like a tone control on your amp. I've yet to try my DP1 dac but the sound I'm getting is already fantastic with my existing dac which cost $599. There's not denying that an expensive dac will raise everything to the next level but you are talking serious money.


----------



## Maxx134

poladise said:


> I'm trialling one of those tomorrow. Great reviews and not too expensive.



very impressive looking unit.


----------



## Maxx134

I would like to know if any other owners of LDMKVIIISE have any model specific tips or upgrades they can mention here in its thread, 
Since main LDMKVIIISE thread is dead.

As I plan to attempt this weekend to try a few tweaks..


----------



## Maxx134

Ok after doing some observation on both the mk6 & boards, and some differences between new and old,
I mainly see there have been changes in parts most likely due to cost savings....
especially notable is the mk8 caps are no longer smaller green they are red and now the board looks almost exactly like the mk6 board...
I will post pics at later time...
Anyways the what I would like to point out now is two things:
1- less expensive resistors used and also doubled up in power supply stage you see two in parallel instead of one like in older pics..
But that is nitpicking as it cheaper but perform it's function regardless.

2-There has not been enough attention to the preamp tube stage.
cheapo blue resistors around it,
While older photo shows nicer resistors I will circle all the areas in question in this pic:..

 
So you see I feel the preamp stage has been a bit neglected as far as upgrades is concerned,
 and I think should be looked into..
I am using SoundEngineer photo for convenience as I haven't opened mine yet because a stupid screw stripped trying to take it out 

edit:
 look at the before pic of an mk8 to see before blue resistor swap:


----------



## Redge78

soundengineer said:


> Is there any LD MK VIII SE owners that can verify that their amp came with the upgraded Vishay/Dale black resistors (that look just like mine but smaller size) instead of the blue resistors?  There must be a good reason why Little Dot would upgrade or use Vishay/Dale resistors instead of the blue chinese resistors in their MKVIII Special Edition model which they stated that it's more specialized than MKVI+ for no-compromise performance for high impedance headphones.


 
 A bit late but I just checked on my LD MKVIII SE ... I have a funny mix of :
 - DALE RW69 (Mil Spec) 151R 5% 3W
 - DALE CW-2C 150R 5% 2.5W
  
 For the record, the LD is fed by a Gungnir (balanced) and run a HD650 (balanced too). Have been changed/modded so far, in that order :
 - An external "low noise" Noctua fan, fedding it with fresh air. Previous to that, the bloody thing was running so hot that I could barely touch it. Perfectly cool now.
 - the 12AT7 for a pair of NOS Mullard CV4024
 - Power cord (Zavfino MAJESTIC)
 - Fuses *3 (PADIS of corresponding values)
 - Coupling Caps : K75-10 0.33microF 
  
 Scheduled : improving the power supply by adding some fast capacitors (probably MKP 10microF) at the end of the power line. Any help / feedback on the subject would be welcomed.
  
@Maxx134
 You're right, my MK8 is pretty old (S/N: 18X), and the resistors you have circled are brown RN55C DALE in mine (the 3 top right and near the large chemical caps) and some large pale large blue resistors. None of these low quality multicolor circles pieces of wood.


----------



## Maxx134

Wow that is excellent news for you to have more quality parts,
but instead of faster power supply caps I would look into
1- maybe Look into 
high-speed silicon rectifiers, (To reduce possible hash)
2- the fact that your resistors are 5% tolerance instead of 1% that you can achieve now.
Looks like you already have everything else in order...

I got the dam blue multicolor striped pieces of wood 
All the more reason to upgrade. 
On the plus side, my new LDMK8se unit came with upgraded .33uf caps made in France


----------



## coinmaster

I'm seriously interested in how any upgrades to this amp is going to sound. Keep at it.


----------



## SoundEngineer

Is any difference between RCA 6AS7G gray plate vs. RCA 6AS7G black plates?  I bought quad RCA black plate but only two are good and the other two were noisy.  I also bought quad RCA gray plate and only three are good and one was noisy.  So I decided to mix gray and black together in this configuration: socket 1 black/ socket 2 gray/ socket 3 gray/ socket 4 black.  WOW!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I have never heard this kind of sound before.  It's very very creamy smooth, lush, and wet.  My DC volt meters match ok so I am hoping that it's ok to do this.
 It was so emotional and good that I was getting chills and goosebumps all over when I was listening to Yuki Kuramoto's "A Winter Story" piano piece.  Anyone who has rca gray and black plates should try this.
  
 I am using Psvane 6SN7-UK driver tube with the combination of RCA 6AS7G gray and black.  So I am not sure if it's the combination of UK-6SN7 and RCA or if it's because of RCA black and gray combination.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> I'm seriously interested in how any upgrades to this amp is going to sound. Keep at it.



I was PMED by a member who knows ALOT about these amps,
 that the resistor upgrade makes the tube rolling more noticable,
so what detail differences SoundEngineer is enjoying, 
 is partly due to his resistor change, particularly the ones he replaced on the top side of the board. 
Yet "wet" is a description of decay so I assume the two different tubes altered the signal somewhat and the great thing about tubes is that they can do no wrong in their signature on an audio circuit...

Just look at the classic guitar amps as example.
 No matter how the tube driven it will always have the "good" type distortion,
 & never the "bad" type that solid state introduces and hides with its bullsh*t fake @$$ distortion figures(!),
 meant for paper...
 all while introducing harshness TIM & loss of detail & fake soundstage  

I speak only of high amplification devices (amps)..

Think of it this way...
You have "good" cholesterol, 
and bad "cholesterol"..

Think of tubes giving you the "good"(THD) "cholesterol"...


----------



## coinmaster

Yo sound engineer. I already purchased the psvane CV181-TII driver tubes and I will soon purchase the Winged "C" 6AS7G power tubes.
 Do you have any updated opinions since you talked about them last?


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> I was PMED by a member who knows ALOT about these amps,
> that the resistor upgrade makes the tube rolling more noticable,
> so what detail differences SoundEngineer is enjoying,
> is partly due to his resistor change, particularly the ones he replaced on the top side of the board.
> Yet "wet" is a description of decay so I assume the two different tubes altered the signal somewhat and the great thing about tubes is that they can do no wrong in their signature on an audio circuit...


 
 Yes, the sound is "wet".  The two different tube characteristics are creating this really sweet, over extended decay, and also extended highs.  This makes simple music with not too many instruments and vocals so dramatic.  This wet sound makes me get really immersed into the music and get so emotional.  I am so hooked on this sound that I do not want to change it for awhile.  I would not try mixing RCA and Sino or RCA and Russian.  But I thought RCA gray and RCA black was safe to try and it totally paid out.  The power tubes make really big difference in SQ for LDMKVI+. I am gonna have to stock up on some RCA tubes now while they are about $10-$20 a pop.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> Yo sound engineer. I already purchased the psvane CV181-TII driver tubes and I will soon purchase the Winged "C" 6AS7G power tubes.
> Do you have any updated opinions since you talked about them last?


 
 The combination of CV181-TII and Winged C 6AS7G are very close to solid state sound in terms of clarity, definition, transparency, and dynamics.  It almost sounds like McIntosh MHA100 which I really like the sound.  IMO, MHA100 is no where close to the sound of LDMKVI+ with CV181-Tii because I get awesome 3d imaging and wide sound stage which I didn't hear with MHA100.  I don't own MHA100 but I spent about total of 8 hours listening to MHA100 whenever I had chance at high end audio store nearby.
 Please don't get me wrong MHA100 is a really really satisfying SS amp.  If I had money and had a choice to buy a SS headphone amp...there's no question about it.
  
 I have not had a chance to try CV181-TII with RCA black&gray so I am going to do that tonight.  I think the sound is going to be so "WET" that I might have a wet dream tonight.


----------



## coinmaster

You're _whetting_ my appetite for tubes.


----------



## coinmaster

It must be nice to be able to talk about music like you do and listen to it all the time.. I was dragged to a concert I didn't want to go to a month and a half ago. I busted my left ear up bad because it was so loud. I have only been able to listen to my HD800 3 times since then for short periods. The headphone convention at stereo exchange busted my left ear up again after it was starting to get better. I can only hear the mosquito tone out of my right ear at the moment which is disturbing.
 I hope it heals before I finish getting my dac and balanced cables.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> It must be nice to be able to talk about music like you do and listen to it all the time.. I was dragged to a concert I didn't want to go to a month and a half ago. I busted my left ear up bad because it was so loud. I have only been able to listen to my HD800 3 times since then for short periods. The headphone convention at stereo exchange busted my left ear up again after it was starting to get better. I can only hear the mosquito tone out of my right ear at the moment which is disturbing.
> I hope it heals before I finish getting my dac and balanced cables.


 
 That happened to me 10 years ago.  I was at a RAVE party and I thought I busted my left ear because it was ringing for days after the party.
 Until I had to take a hearing test for an audio engineer position 9 years ago...I thought my ear was damaged but that was not the case.  I passed it with flying colors.
 Two weeks ago I had an hearing test with ENT who has a special testing equipment that tests up to 20kHz.  I did score above average on the normal hearing test that does pure tone 125hz to 8khz.  My hearing test was flat across the board with -5dB on all frequency.  Then my hearing sensitivity dropped like a rolling hill past 16kHz on a special testing equipment.  But my doctor did comment that not too many people can hear 18kHz and I was able to hear it at 30dB.
  
 My point is even tho I was at a concert that was pounding 110+ dB into my ears for 6 hours I didn't have any hearing loss on any of the frequencies.  And I think you are going to be ok as long as you take it easy now.  High frequencies hairs are fragile and once it's damaged, it's gone forever.  Mid and low frequency hairs are very resilient and they are very hard to get damaged (unless a gun goes off next to your ear).  Just take good care of your ears now so you can enjoy your music for long years to come.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> ... I can only hear the mosquito tone out of my right ear at the moment which is disturbing.
> I hope it heals before I finish getting my dac and balanced cables.



do what I did once.
I put earplugs in my ears for about 3weeks due to a noisy job and after the second week it started to feel like I could hear right thru as I got used to the low sounds and could hear coworkers with them on..

The details and background noise and "air" was noticable when taking them off..
I took them off at home.

Nowadays I leave my headphones on while they are not playing so they isolate some noise and keepy ears warm from cold..
thats another issue.
the cold winter air may be slowing down your recovery. .


----------



## coinmaster

I'm just worried I busted my high frequency hearing in the left ear. I like being able to hear the high frequency pitch when someone turns a t.v. on. Also sound through headphones sounds "right sided" with busted hearing which is so annoying. I thought my headphones were defective until I realized it was my ear.
 The thing that really disturbs me is that it's been 1 month and 3 weeks and my ear does not seem like it will be healed for quite some time. I can only have headphones on for about 3 minutes before I have to take them off for the day.


----------



## Redge78

maxx134 said:


> Wow that is excellent news for you to have more quality parts,
> but instead of faster power supply caps I would look into
> 1- maybe Look into
> high-speed silicon rectifiers, (To reduce possible hash)
> ...


 
 Hi All,
  
 The "High-speed rectifiers" mod is something I read about. That was not my top priority, but it could be part of the changes I could do when I'll remove the board :
 - better resistors (Cappock MK132 seem to be highly regarded, or some Audio Note tantalium maybe) 
 - extra caps for power supply,
 - maybe some re-wiring of the balanced circuits if it's not to difficult.
  
 The reason I was focussing on those fast (MKP) caps in the power supply chain is that most of the DIY schematics for "cost no object" tube amplifiers have that kind of configuration (large polarised caps + 10microF MKP + eventually a even smaller/faster cap (Mica ?)). And that is backed up by some "old tube designers" I tend to trust.
 And after I had a look at the "HeadAmp GS-X Power Supply" which is massively using those fast MKP caps (Aerovox ARPM 10microF, ...I'll go for them too), that made me think that this was what should be my next move.  
  
 The point I need help on is regarding the last "stage" of the power supply. It should be some kind of RC or LC circuit.
 This stage should be around the 4 large Nichicon 1.000microF caps and the 4 * 120R 5W resistors, I suppose.
 What is not clear for me is :
 - Is each cap/res couple (4 couples in total) is dedicated to each of the 4 amplifier lines
 - or is it some kind of "2cap/2res" circuit, feeding each 2 amplifer lines (as the preceding stages seem to do)
 - or is it 2 stages (2 RC circuit one behind the other)
 Obviously, depending on the answer, the extra caps won't be put in the same way. That has been buggering me all week ... 
  
 Regarding the coupling cap, I had some french SCR MKP 0.22microF in mine (2cm long, red sides). Changing them for K75-10  0.33 have been a *VAST* improvement in every way.


----------



## baronbeehive

soundengineer said:


> Is any difference between RCA 6AS7G gray plate vs. RCA 6AS7G black plates?  I bought quad RCA black plate but only two are good and the other two were noisy.  I also bought quad RCA gray plate and only three are good and one was noisy.  So I decided to mix gray and black together in this configuration: socket 1 black/ socket 2 gray/ socket 3 gray/ socket 4 black.  WOW!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Skylab in his discussion on 6AS7G tubes said that there was virtually no difference in black or grey plates, but some say black plates have a warmer, fuller sound whereas gray plates are supposed to emphasize the fundamental tone more. However I've heard some say that gray plates have a creamier sound. These are obviously generalizations though and within these categories there are variations. I don't really think that your sound is down to mixing the 6AS7's but it is down to the fact that of using RCA's because that is their characteristic signature which I love. I think you've got a great combination there because you've got the warmth and lushness of the RCA's together with the more detailed sound of the driver tubes - perfect. If you were using the same make of tube for both driver and power I don't think it would work because it would be either to lush or too cold sounding.
  
 I got rid of all my RCA 6AS7G tubes and you're making me want to get some again!


----------



## john57

> Regarding the coupling cap, I had some french SCR MKP 0.22microF in mine (2cm long, red sides). Changing them for K75-10  0.33 have been a *VAST* improvement in every way.


 
 Changing the coupling caps at the pre-amp tubes would make the most difference. I would only change the resistors if the original resistors is showing stress and a higher wattage resistor can be a good idea. Better tolerance resistors would be good for the resistors that are responsible for gain control, like near the gain control switches as an example.


----------



## Maxx134

I still think going wire wound is best to for the MK8, 
I went with 1%tolerance, non-inductive wore wound.
on the MK8 they are a lower value than the MK6.
For the MK8 I got these:


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111095359139&alt=web 

Still searching now for reaistors for the pre-tubs as I believe they are probably 5%toll as well.

Also, It is unknown if all the tiny resistors are metal film or not.
I must now investigate and look at their color codes..

I still won't touch anything near the trim pots which control the DC offset as it is unnecessary. .

I plan to swap the three tiny ones on each side of the volume and they are going to the pre tubes so to find out what they do I just have to check out the pin out of the tube.


----------



## coinmaster

Still not sure why you don't just go metal film.
 Looking forward to any difference in sound you might get from these changes though.


----------



## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> Is any difference between RCA 6AS7G gray plate vs. RCA 6AS7G black plates?  I bought quad RCA black plate but only two are good and the other two were noisy.  I also bought quad RCA gray plate and only three are good and one was noisy.  So I decided to mix gray and black together in this configuration: socket 1 black/ socket 2 gray/ socket 3 gray/ socket 4 black.  WOW!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hi SE,
  
 Does the Psvanes fit without the use of socket savers?


----------



## SoundEngineer

sonictrance said:


> Hi SE,
> 
> Does the Psvanes fit without the use of socket savers?


 

  
 Yes, Psvane 6SN7-UK fits perfectly without any adapter.  It's a beautiful pair of 6SN7 that look like 6AS7G.  They don't just look nice...they sound amazing for the price.


----------



## coinmaster

Out of curiosity. Could you fit a 300b tube in these with an adapter?


----------



## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> Yes, Psvane 6SN7-UK fits perfectly without any adapter.  It's a beautiful pair of 6SN7 that look like 6AS7G.  They don't just look nice...they sound amazing for the price.


 
 Thanks
 Yeah, I know. I got a pair myself that I've been using as power tubes in my mkivse before I moved over to the 6AS7's with external psu. But I also got a mkvi+ on the way


----------



## SoundEngineer

sonictrance said:


> Thanks
> Yeah, I know. I got a pair myself that I've been using as power tubes in my mkivse before I moved over to the 6AS7's with external psu. But I also got a mkvi+ on the way


 
 MisterX,
  
 Are you using C3G or C3Gs for your MKIVSE driver tube and 6AS7G for power tube?  If you are...I am very very interested on your impression when you get your MKVI+.  I want to know how they compare to each other.  I was going to get MKIVSE and do the mod like you did but I had an opportunity to buy a 2nd hand MKVI+ for $100 more than MKIVSE so I skipped to MKVI+.
  
 Please let me know after you listen to MKVI+


----------



## Poladise

soundengineer said:


> Yes, Psvane 6SN7-UK fits perfectly without any adapter.  It's a beautiful pair of 6SN7 that look like 6AS7G.  They don't just look nice...they sound amazing for the price.


 
  
 How do they compare to the T2s?


----------



## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> MisterX,
> 
> Are you using C3G or C3Gs for your MKIVSE driver tube and 6AS7G for power tube?  If you are...I am very very interested on your impression when you get your MKVI+.  I want to know how they compare to each other.  I was going to get MKIVSE and do the mod like you did but I had an opportunity to buy a 2nd hand MKVI+ for $100 more than MKIVSE so I skipped to MKVI+.
> 
> Please let me know after you listen to MKVI+




That's correct. I'm using c3gs's and 6as7's with my mkivse. I will compare the amps when I get the vi+. Just have to reterminate my cans first


----------



## SoundEngineer

sonictrance said:


> That's correct. I'm using c3gs's and 6as7's with my mkivse. I will compare the amps when I get the vi+. Just have to reterminate my cans first


 
 What can are you using?


----------



## SoundEngineer

poladise said:


> How do they compare to the T2s?


 
 TII is very detailed, transparent, and dynamic with 3D.  UK is some what more musical with less detail, less 3d, and less dynamics compared to TII...but it seems to have extended decay with wider stage. TII seems too analytical and SS sounding compared to UK.  So far, I having been choosing UK over TII for last two weeks.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> Still not sure why you don't just go metal film.
> Looking forward to any difference in sound you might get from these changes though.



upon further inspection,
Every single blue resistor in my unit is a 1% tolerance resistor and they all have appearance of standard metal film...

Carbon resistors aren't blue, they are brown and never show brown color code of 1%..

Looking at pics of the older units, 
they appear to definitely have a mix of old stock type metal film, at 1% tol, and some dale resistors inside.




sonictrance said:


> Hi SE,
> 
> Does the Psvanes fit without the use of socket savers?



I would think socket savers help with board heat.
.


----------



## Poladise

soundengineer said:


> TII is very detailed, transparent, and dynamic with 3D.  UK is some what more musical with less detail, less 3d, and less dynamics compared to TII...but it seems to have extended decay with wider stage. TII seems too analytical and SS sounding compared to UK.  So far, I having been choosing UK over TII for last two weeks.


 
 Sounds like I'd prefer the UKs. I want to get as far away as possible from that thinner analytical sound. I finally got to compare SE and fully balanced using an Emotiva Stealth for a few days. I was hoping fully balanced would make it sound more meaty, but it just had the same effect as when I was using SE dac and balanced out to the phones:
  
 Cleaner, improved clarity and width, but less bass and body to the sound. I actually prefer single ended because of this. Now I'm wondering if there's any very bass heavy drivers and power tubes out there which would make balanced mode sound full bodied or if I stop searching and just pick up a Violectric V200 which I guess is what I'm trying to achieve; the equivalent to a V200 with a tube amp.


----------



## baronbeehive

Why don't you just go with the LCD's if you want fuller, bass heavy sound?


----------



## Poladise

I'm using LCD2r2. Still using the french stock Thomson 6080WA tubes and swapping between Brimar 6SN7GTs & the stock 6N9P drivers, maybe these tubes arent good for bass weight.


----------



## baronbeehive

That's interesting that you've got Brimars because that's one of the punchiest tubes out there, if it's the same as the ones I had with the gold speckled brown bases. The sound they gave me was too full for my taste, but the only thing I can think of that could give you even more richness are Sylvania 6080 Gold Brand and 5998 Tungsols but of course they are out of most peoples price range nowadays unfortunately.
  
 I don't know what DAC you are using but I've found differences with my Channel Islands Audio VDA-2 and my new Eximus DP1. The VDA-2 sounds smooth and quite rich and the DP1 sounds detailed and lively sounding and on balance I think I like the smoother sound but the difference is not that great so I don't think changing the DAC will make a vast difference but if say you got a Metrum Hex you would have a much smoother analogue sound, again though that's an expensive bit of kit.
  
 You mention that the balanced connection doesn't give you a fuller sound and I think that's right you get a slightly more detailed sound like you said. So that leaves the amp itself, maybe you need a different amp, say a 300B? The LD is a very transparent amp with not much of a tube sound. That's all I can think of to help.


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## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> What can are you using?


 
 Currently I got ATH-W1000X and HE-400i, just sold my DT990 600ohm, which was the cans I originally bought the mkivse for.


----------



## SoundEngineer

poladise said:


> Sounds like I'd prefer the UKs. I want to get as far away as possible from that thinner analytical sound. I finally got to compare SE and fully balanced using an Emotiva Stealth for a few days. I was hoping fully balanced would make it sound more meaty, but it just had the same effect as when I was using SE dac and balanced out to the phones:
> 
> Cleaner, improved clarity and width, but less bass and body to the sound. I actually prefer single ended because of this. Now I'm wondering if there's any very bass heavy drivers and power tubes out there which would make balanced mode sound full bodied or if I stop searching and just pick up a Violectric V200 which I guess is what I'm trying to achieve; the equivalent to a V200 with a tube amp.


 
 I had Emotiva XDA-2 DAC and I hated the sound because of the reason you described.  It was not accurate and not transparent.  I think it had some what recessed low mid and low frequency.  Luckily it broke after 2 days and I was able return it.  I was so glad I got rid of Emotiva DAC.  IMO, if your Stealth DAC is anywhere similar to XDA-2...maybe you might want to think about a different DAC.
  
 Thomson 6080WA French tube is notoriously thin and the stock drivers are just bad.
  
 To me it seems like balanced mode is not the issue here.  IMO, Winged "C" or RCA power tube and any normal NOS tube like Tungsol 6SN7GTB might do the trick.  I think this might be the most economical way to at least test to see if fullness of sound improves.  Please don't misunderstand me when I said TII is analytical...it's nowhere near thin.  IMO, TII gave me the most detailed full sound than any 6SN7 I've tried so far.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yes, get some RCA 6AS7G's and I would try some RCA 6SN7GTB - Tungsols can sound slightly thin. That would be a very cheap option to try out. Short of getting Mullards, which I don't like, that should give you as full a sound as you are going to get, though at the expense of all out detail. But at least you will know what the amp can do and if not then maybe the amp is not for you. The LD is not going to give you a full and lush midrange like some other variants but it is the combination of transparency and warmth that I like. I am a bit surprised because I thought it would pair well with the LCD's.
  
 I've tried to get every component in my rig to be quite smooth sounding and more by luck than design I think it sounds great but I understand what you say about thinness which I hate, so make sure you select all components with that in mind. I have a slight problem with the Eximus DP1 which I could love if it wasn't for the fact that my existing DAC is already smooth sounding and the DP1 can get a bit shouty at times.


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## baronbeehive

I've just tried SE inputs and balanced outputs to the LD inadvertently and the sound was just terrible, I couldn't figure out what was wrong, I had to double the volume and even then it sounded as though it was coming out of a fog, so definately not recommended,


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## Poladise

Baron,
  
 SoundEngineer,
  
 Yeh, the Brimars surprised me. I went for them because I read they are quite euphonic with some bloom and a punchy bass. At the mo they sound quite closed in, muffled and a bit cold & harsh in the mids. They were advertised as NOS and I've only put about 15hrs on them. Probably just need to burn them in for ages, but I keep switching to the stock 6N9Ps so I can enjoy listening again.
  
 6SN7GTs supposed to be from 1949-50, they at least look like they should sound good lol.
  

  
 The Emotiva Stealth dac I tried is reported to be way beyond on that XDA-2 thing. I guess it must be, because it sounded very clean and detailed without harshness. Was quite impressed with it, but I think I'll end up with a tube or NOS dac instead.
  
 On the SE vs balanced thing, although I preferred the fuller sounding single ended mode, if I cranked the volume, SE seemed to fall apart and lose quality/dynamics, but balanced kept solid and actually got a bit stronger and more dynamic sounding as the volume increased.
  
 I'm not saying the LCD2s sounds bad on my VI+. Even with the stock tubes it's one of the best amps I've heard on LCDs for soundstage, openness and clarity without harshness. Currently though it's a bit below my LD I+ in low end weight and body and I expected the VI+ to destroy it here tbh. Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to order a set of RCA 6AS7G / 6SN7GTB tomorrow. It's definitely worth trying them out before moving to another amp.


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## Maxx134

Here are my thoughts on the upgrade for those who choose to do so.

This is an MK8 board so power suppy resistor layout will vary..


Those that have older units are actually in luck for having less parts to upgrade in certain areas..

Circled below in green are all the areas to upgrade if you have blue resistors in place of what optimally should be a better black one From various pics I studied..

The large blue chinese resistors will turn brown or color code wear off..

Only the circled blue resistors are of any concern because of the wattage and heat.
I do not state they must be changed your unit they may be fine but I would check them visually.

All the other small resistors throughout board are fine regardless if they are newer blue metal film or older brown metal film..

Now for the interesting part...
All the RED circles are directly in the signal path, and so can be optimize by upgrading. ..

Yes this means not only those four caps, but the set of three tiny resistors on each side...

Only replace those tiny reaistors if they are not metal film for lowest noise.
color coding should note a brown stripe instead of a gold stripe...
older units will not show any color coding & that is also good type.

Here is where it gets interesting. .
suppose you want to go for an even better resistor there?


Here is the pic, your unit will vary:



Edit:
Warning do not attempt anything if you do not have experience yourself as you can be fatally shocked by tube circuitry which is much higher & dangerous than simple IC chip circuits...

Also you would void your warrantee & possibly damage your unit.
All upgrading done at your own risk I take no responsibility in showing you I did not say to do it...

Well that being said,
I "may" do it..


----------



## coinmaster

Make sure to have a good listen before you upgrade so you can tell us any differences in sound.


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## baronbeehive

Poladise, one thing I forgot to mention, I came across a DAC that I dismissed for precisely the reasons you might like a look. The Metrum Octave DAC apparently does have a very full bodied musical sound, also it is a NOS DAC which you mentioned, and I would prefer these types as well because I'm not interested in upsampling. One other thing, I just wondered if the LD mk1 has more apparent bass because being an earlier design it is not quite up to par with respect to the later models and the bass in newer models may have been improved to be more focussed on detail and not so much on bass quantity?


----------



## coinmaster

I just noticed that my new tubes have what looks like blue plasma flashing on the inner walls. Is this a bad thing?
 I know plasma is ionized gas so I supposed it could indicate a leak?


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> I just noticed that my new tubes have what looks like blue plasma flashing on the inner walls. Is this a bad thing?
> I know plasma is ionized gas so I supposed it could indicate a leak?



yes also I read the getter and silver stuff on top of tube should absorb impurities gases like that unless it really is a leak..


----------



## Maxx134

Here is a quote from an article:
"Resistors are among the principal noise sources in the amplifiers."
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278251&page_number=1

Here is a plot of the noise comparison of resistor types. ..


So I see three general types for this amp.
1-wirewound on the power resistors 
2- metal film for circuits 
3- audio quality type resistors in signal path of driver tube stage .

Anyways that how I see it looking at the circuits more and more and it looks like an excellent design with even greater potential. .


----------



## coinmaster

maxx134 said:


> yes also I read the getter and silver stuff on top of tube should absorb impurities gases like that unless it really is a leak..


 

 The top of tube is clear.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> The top of tube is clear.


 ouch! Lol gotta laugh.
not your situation just at myself & my asumption.

Anyways I am curious if your situation is vacuum leak.


----------



## Poladise

baronbeehive said:


> Poladise, one thing I forgot to mention, I came across a DAC that I dismissed for precisely the reasons you might like a look. The Metrum Octave DAC apparently does have a very full bodied musical sound, also it is a NOS DAC which you mentioned, and I would prefer these types as well because I'm not interested in upsampling. One other thing, I just wondered if the LD mk1 has more apparent bass because being an earlier design it is not quite up to par with respect to the later models and the bass in newer models may have been improved to be more focussed on detail and not so much on bass quantity?


 
  
 I've seen that mentioned a few times, i'll check it out. You're probably right about the i+, but I've read a few reports now of the Thomson 6080WAs not being a full bodied kinda sound, so maybe those 6AS7Gs work for me. Supplier only has one RCA 6AS7G in stock though. Do you or anyone here know if the Chatham 6AS7Gs are similar to the RCAs?


----------



## Redge78

maxx134 said:


> Here are my thoughts on the upgrade for those who choose to do so.
> 
> This is an MK8 board so power suppy resistor layout will vary..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Maxx134 for the info.
  
 As I said previously, I have a rather old MK8SE (I checked again, S/N 118 !), so I can give you the references of what caps/resistors were put at the beginning, in case you'd like know.
  
 The 2*3 resistors in the signal path are *DALE RN55C* (Metal Film Resistors) 0.1% Tolerance
 - Very low noise (- 40 dB)
 - Very low voltage coefficient (5 ppm/V)
 - Controlled temperature coefficient
 - Flame retardant epoxy coating 
  
 I think I already gave the references for the other Resistors around the tube, ask me if you want the ones in the Power supply.
  
 And if you think of something significantly better than the DALE (Audio Note Tantalium ? Kiwame ? Caddock ?), please tell us. With the improvements I had with my new caps, I am more than willing to maximise everything that is in the signal path !


----------



## greenkiwi

You think that's old? I'm rocking a mk vi, s/n 0015

I'm thinking that I should probably do some preventative maintenance... Just have to figure out what... And figure out which tubes to use. I'm guessing mine really should be replaced.


----------



## baronbeehive

Speaking of tubes, has anyone noticed that there don't seem to be so many 6as7g's around nowadays, when I got my first lot, which I've now sold unfortunately, you couldn't move for bumping into them all over the place.


----------



## Maxx134

For those considering doing the resistor upgrade for their LDMKVI,
(Mk6), 
it doesn't get much better than this:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111042340120&alt=web

Edit:
If you can find 1% tolerance dale that would be best..
I haven't seen that tho


----------



## SoundEngineer

maxx134 said:


> For those considering doing the resistor upgrade for their LDMKVI,
> (Mk6),
> it doesn't get much better than this:
> 
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111042340120&alt=web


 
 Thanks for confirming that these are the best resistors that I could use for LDMKVI.  I was thinking about taking these out and going with metal foil resistors but I couldn't find any that were 330ohm 5W.  I guess I will leave them in.
  
 What resistor value do I need for all the resistors you circled that are in the signal path?  Even tho I am more than satisfied with my sound right now I want to experiment with some high end name brand resistors to see if I can make even more improvement.  But I have no idea how to calculate or find resistor values.  Please let me know if you know the values.  Thanks


----------



## SoundEngineer

I want to ask if using mix of different power tube is ok.  I am experimenting with different power tubes and the sound is amazing!!
  
 RCA6080 has very full sound with lots of bass but sounds very closed and stuffy.  On the other hand Thomson 6080WA is detailed, has good sound stage, open and clear but sounds very thin.
  
 This is how I mixed them: socket 1 RCA, socket 2 Thomson, socket 3 RCA, socket 4 Thomson.  DC mA meter are evenly matched at 70DC mA.
  
 I can't believe how good this sounds.  Now I have the hard hitting bass, full sound, wide open sound stage, nice detailed clear sound.  I have best part of the both tubes.
 I want to recommend others to try this but I am not sure if this is going to damage my amp or the tubes in anyway so I can't really recommend it until someone can confirm it's ok to do this.
  
 I have been listening to music with this combination for about 8 hours so far and there's no smoke coming out of my amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 This combination pretty much destroyed any other 6AS7G tubes I've tried so far.  This sounds way better than the RCA gray&black combination I raved about week ago.
 RCA6080 about $6 each and Thomson6080WA about $8 each on ebay.
  
 I am sure many of you have these tubes somewhere in your house collecting dust.  You guys need to try this once it's confirmed that it's safe to do this.


----------



## SoundEngineer

*Ok this is pretty CRAZY!!!*
  
*I* changed the tube settings:  socket 1 Thomson, socket 2 RCA, socket 3 Thomson, socket 4 RCA.  It seems like *socket 2 and socket 4 are*  dominant or something.
  
Now I have this crazy awesome bass, very full sound, with creamy liquid mids and highs.   I might have just discovered a hidden secret of LDMKVI+.   I didn't know my HD650 can sound this good!!!





  My HD650 shouldn't sound this crazy good.  Something is definitely not normal here.  I can't explain what is happening but this is some crazy good schiit!!  You guys have to try this!!! (at your own risk)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I wish there's some kind of Headphone Meet near where I live so I can bring my LDMKVI+ and let others listen to it hear them say "WOWWWWWW!!!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Poladise, you have to try this.  Don't even bother getting RCA 6AS7G.  Just get two cheap RCA6080 because you already have Thomson 6080WA.
 I was always trying to get matched quad power tubes because I just thought that's how it must be done.  I didn't use my RCA6080 or Thomson 6080WA by themselves because they just don't sound good.  I might have just unlocked the secret power of LDMKVI+ of it's versatility of letting users mix power tubes.
  
 I have been using this for more than 10 hours and nothing happened.  Temperature seems just a tiny bit warmer but nothing else seems to be wrong.


----------



## Maxx134

Nothing adverse will happen as the circuitry was designed for those tubes,
 and the reason why mixing works is solely due to the genius of its designer,
 by using opamps to control any DC offset that might have occurred from mixing tubes.


----------



## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> *Ok this is pretty CRAZY!!!*
> 
> *I* changed the tube settings:  socket 1 Thomson, socket 2 RCA, socket 3 Thomson, socket 4 RCA.  It seems like *socket 2 and socket 4 are*  dominant or something.
> 
> ...


 
 This is very interesting. I'll try this out when mine arrives for sure! =)


----------



## Poladise

soundengineer said:


> Don't even bother getting RCA 6AS7G.  Just get two cheap RCA6080 because you already have Thomson 6080WA.


 
  
 I couldnt find a 6AS7G set anyway. I ordered a Violectric V200, so I have a reference for the kind of full bodied vivid sound I've been wanting to achieve with a tube amp. I might end up keeping just the V200, but I havent given up on the VI+ yet: I just ordered some RCA 6080s. Got 4 just in case I prefer them on their own instead of mixed. Interesting find Soundengineer.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> Thanks for confirming that these are the best resistors that I could use for LDMKVI.  I was thinking about taking these out and going with metal foil resistors but I couldn't find any that were 330ohm 5W.  I guess I will leave them in.
> 
> What resistor value do I need for all the resistors you circled that are in the signal path?  Even tho I am more than satisfied with my sound right now I want to experiment with some high end name brand resistors to see if I can make even more improvement.  But I have no idea how to calculate or find resistor values.  Please let me know if you know the values.  Thanks



Correct metal foil is best and can be only used in input stage as none are made high watts..


I cannot recommend you my resistor values in preamp tube stage because I have different driver tubes(12at7),
so you can check the board under the resistor may have it written, 
OR last resort take out and measure but that would mean no working amp till U get replacement parts ,
which on ebay you can get a good deal buying the caddock foils:

that an example of the four I need and another two more of another lesser value..

I was going for these but at last minute turned raving mad...


I bought the Vishay metal foils...


Look! 

The way I see it, is if U going to go thru all the trouble to open up and work on it,
replace with most noticable potential for improvement,
or you may not notice enough for the effort involved...
Especially when the amp is already at a level where almost everything is at 1% tolerance or better...


----------



## Redge78

Maxx,
  
 You surely realised that you will have to put those "my precious" tall resistors just below your huge Mundorf caps ... didn't you ...
  
 Good luck with that ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 And you chose the "naked" version, on top of that ... that would have been too easy otherwise !


----------



## Maxx134

Noooowwahhhh!
Y didn' I see this. .
I couldn't resist it being naked...

Lol I don't care I'll make it fit!


----------



## john57

That is interesting flat resistors, not the most common I have seen.


----------



## G600

I'm worried to see the thread going in a dangerous direction.
  
 While being top notch resistor, those naked Zfoil are fragile and are not rated for a tube amp, hardly for the input stage.
  
 And mixing power tubes, that's borderline crazy. You must ask Sword Yang at LittleDot about this.
 Somebody earlier said that with the servo, nothing bad can happen with DC.
 Never forget those opamps have a range, if anything goes beyond, it's going to hurt badly.
  
 Just imagine frying your amp, your cans, and why not your ears !
 I see some members that a month ago were afraid to unscrew the bottom plate, and now don't hesitate to rebuild the amp.
 Guys, keep low profile and think twice before regretting what you did.
  
 Anyway, those amps are wonderful.


----------



## Maxx134

Hmm.. U R absolutely correct. . 
 I have to agree,


 this is a not a modding thread,
 and so it's very dangerous road for the untrained, 
not only because of what was stated,
but Because it's tubes.

Need to know what Ur doin a bit to not get killed with high voltages from caps.

For those that pass the issues stated,
need to PM & or start a mod thread..
I won't volunteer because I don't want to be blamed (!) Lol

Personally, I am convinced LD has the potential to be crush the majority of competition out there Just with the cap mod.


----------



## SoundEngineer

g600 said:


> I'm worried to see the thread going in a dangerous direction.
> 
> While being top notch resistor, those naked Zfoil are fragile and are not rated for a tube amp, hardly for the input stage.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree with G600 and I fully understand his concern.  Thank you for sharing your concerns.
 I agree with G600 and I would not recommend others of doing this unless someone can verify with Sword Yang that this is ok to do.  
  
 IMHO, I don't see that this LDMKVI/VIII owners thread is any different from LDMKIVSE owners thread which had impressions about improved SQ from modding and trying different tubes that were not even designed for it.  In result, lots of LDMKIVSE owners got to enjoy SQ that can't be produced by stock LDMKIVSE.  
 IMHO, we have mix of LDMKVI/VIII owners who are DYI people who want to push their amp to it's max capability and there are people who just like to enjoy the sound it was originally intended by the designer...and some in between.  I would not recommend others to try what I did unless they can verify with Sword Yang or some qualified professional who knows about LDMKVI/VIII.
  
  
 Here is my update:
 I left my mixed power tube amp on for about 8 hours straight last night with my fan on at the lowest speed setting with random music playing.  It was turned off for about 3 hours this morning and I left it on again for another 8 hours with random music playing with my HD650 connected to the balanced output.  There is no change in SQ (still crazy good) or temperature change of the case.
  
 The warmer temperature was not from mixing the tubes...it was actually from 6080 tube design.  They have wide metal base that is closer to the decoration ring that transfers more heat to the case.  This is why it was warmer than using my 6AS7Gs not that my amp was working harder or something was overheating.
  
 I have been using it with mixed power tube for about 26+ hours.  I opened up the case and everything seems to be in normal condition.  I will be using this mixed power tube setting for awhile because I haven't found any matched quad 6AS7G or matched quad 6080 tubes that can beat this Musical (it's much proper to say Magical) SQ.
  
 All I want to do is share what I have found so far for those who are interested.
  
 Please do not try this unless you can verify with Sword Yang or someone who is a qualified professional.  I do not recommend anyone to do this.  I do not want anyone to fry their amp, cans, or ears.


----------



## Maxx134

g600 said:


> ...
> While being top notch resistor, those naked Zfoil are fragile and are not rated for a tube amp, hardly for the input stage.



I just want to point out that from my observations,
my first concern and issue was about power handling and if you look at existing resistors they look at best like a 1/4watt(.25), 
Actually smaller:


redge78 said:


> The 2*3 resistors in the signal path are *DALE RN55C* (Metal Film Resistors) 0.1% Tolerance
> - Very low noise (- 40 dB)
> - Very low voltage coefficient (5 ppm/V)
> - Controlled temperature coefficient
> ...





So the z-foil is .4watt which is around double the power rating,
and so my only remaining concern is that she is naked..


----------



## Maxx134

g600 said:


> I clearly stated q while ago that the resistor upgrade over those blue piece of sh... is as big as the cap upgrade.
> I don't know if there is any metal into those metal films, but them being in the signal path is naughty.



This leads me to believe that they are ..
Edit:
I have come to the belief that they are just metal films that are not of a quality capable of the heat & wattage.
extra thick means nothing as it is whats inside that matters.

Also although they feeding the tube's, they are not actually in signal path as the power tube is getting signAL from the capacitor. 



coinmaster said:


> You know mundorf makes resistors too right? :wink_face: . Also wirewound resistors are inferior to metal film resistors so there could be room for even more improvement.



while this is true I have realized that the resistor type plays important role and for the role the big resistors is used for power not signal quality, so in that sense we need power handling and low noise under high heat.

The designer originally chose the dale wirewound, and so I am not second guessing with these larger metal film replacements that are not realy meant for what they are in now...
Metal oxide is a better choice for that high wattage but my guess is deaigner did not want to conpromise on the better tolerance that the metal films give.

In fact my unit being just made a few weeks ago has more metal films in compromised areas like power supply, compared to older board pics. 

It was a move away from older stock dale resistors to newer unknown make metal films,
 that can be from any asian manufacturer,
and in itself is nothing wrong, just not optimal for higher wattages.

Again Must note that the ONLY concern I found was the higher wattage resistors (2w on board).
Not many metal films go that high to begin with,
So its understandable there would be wear.

Here is a pic examlple of what is being passed of as the new dale resistors look like:

But in my search dale still not make their resistors blue..

So these are very much like any stock metal film of asian manufacturers that make & sell their parts to companies who rebrand them to their names.
LD may be getting them from the source.

The critical parts still look excellent and caps too .
I will be going over the tiny stuff with a critical eye..

Again, so far the weak parts I am only talking about the power resistors throughout board in power supply area and the 8 mention earlier for power tubes...


----------



## Maxx134

After comparing more I see on my MK8 board:

 all the larger black capacitors in power supply area have been upgraded to larger cpacitance or voltage.

For instance large caps are now 1200uf instead of 1000uf,

and the 330uf is now 250v instead of 200v.

And the red wima caps thruout board are now wider voltage spec MKP10 instead of older mks4.

And The signal coupling caps of preTube stage have also been upgraded to .33uf from .22uf

I was also notified of resistor value change for more stability of the MK8 



So in my view key upgrades to performance have been improved upon,
regardless of the new blue resistors mentioned.


----------



## SonicTrance

soundengineer said:


> MisterX,
> 
> Are you using C3G or C3Gs for your MKIVSE driver tube and 6AS7G for power tube?  If you are...I am very very interested on your impression when you get your MKVI+.  I want to know how they compare to each other.  I was going to get MKIVSE and do the mod like you did but I had an opportunity to buy a 2nd hand MKVI+ for $100 more than MKIVSE so I skipped to MKVI+.
> 
> Please let me know after you listen to MKVI+


 
 I now got my mkvi+ up and running! I'd like to give you my first impressions.
  
 First a few negatives:
 I get noise from the SE output (like almost everyone else it seems)
 The stock fans was VERY loud, replaced them asap with some Noctuas, dead quiet now.
  
 Other than that it's an amazing upgrade from the mkivse (I'm keeping that too though). I re-terminated my W1000X today and OMG what a difference it made. They sound amazing balanced! I'm using the LD Dac_1 as source btw. Soundstage is much bigger and separation much clearer. I thought these cans sounded good before, but now I'm blown away!
 I'm currently running 6H5C's as powers and Psvane uk-6SN7 as drivers. Got some Mullard 6080's and Psvane Treasures on the way though.
  
 Running the mkvi+ in SE mode and try to ignore the noise, it's on par with my modded mkivse in sound quality. I'm never using that SE output again though


----------



## baronbeehive

I loved my MKIVSE too, and the person I sold it to was blown away as well. That was when I had my ATH-AD2000's which I believe the W1000X is a great upgrade for! I'll be interested to know what you think of the Mullards.


----------



## SoundEngineer

sonictrance said:


> I now got my mkvi+ up and running! I'd like to give you my first impressions.
> 
> First a few negatives:
> I get noise from the SE output (like almost everyone else it seems)
> ...


 
 Congratulations!!! That's awesome that you are blown away.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Those Psvane UK-6SN7 are truly a bargain for the SQ that you are getting.
  
 I am also eagerly waiting for your impression on Mullard 6080.


----------



## Maxx134

redge78 said:


> Maxx,
> 
> You surely realised that you will have to put those "my precious" tall resistors just below your huge Mundorf caps ... didn't you ...
> 
> ...



Looks like opposite happened...
they seem very small!

"My precious"


----------



## SonicTrance

baronbeehive said:


> I loved my MKIVSE too, and the person I sold it to was blown away as well. That was when I had my ATH-AD2000's which I believe the W1000X is a great upgrade for! I'll be interested to know what you think of the Mullards.


 
  
  


soundengineer said:


> Congratulations!!! That's awesome that you are blown away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks!
 I'm really enjoying this new amp the more I listen to it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll re-terminate my HE-400i tonight. Very curious to hear them balanced as well.


----------



## SonicTrance

sonictrance said:


> I now got my mkvi+ up and running! I'd like to give you my first impressions.
> 
> First a few negatives:
> I get noise from the SE output (like almost everyone else it seems)
> ...


 
 Little update:
 Just tried my HE-400i using the SE port (haven't re-terminated them yet) and they are dead quiet! The more sensitive W1000X had horrible noise from the SE output. Now I can do a more real comparison with these, balanced vs SE, since there's no noise.


----------



## Poladise

If you can run your fans from an external supply, the single ended hum goes away.


----------



## levinhatz

Has anyone here tried the Audeze LCD-X with the Little Dot MKVI+?
  
 I have to imagine they work nicely together, since the LD is so great for the LCD-2, but the X does have its differences.


----------



## coinmaster

I just switched from SE to balanced and holy balls it sounds great. For the first time ever I have an involuntary smile on my face while wearing the HD800s!. I was expecting a change but not like this. It sounds like I have entirely different headphones on! There's actually...SOUL!!! HUMANITY!! in my HD800s!! Yaaaaaaaaay for once I can be happy with my headphones!!!!!!
 It sounds less believably realistic, and it has some issues with the bass and some other things I have yet to put my finger on, but it doesn't even matter because it's oozing euphony. My ears are in some kind of heaven.
  
 There's a small buzzing in the left channel meaning I messed up on the soldering somewhere, that's going to be a p.i.t.a. to troubleshoot.
  
 I realized that the solder is the last part in the connection to the headphones meaning it's the limiting factor. Solder is made of materials that are not as conductive as the wire. Kind of puts into question my faith in the possibility that cables can make a difference so I might just stick with these canare cables.
  
 I started to give up on everything, wasn't planning on doing the capacitor upgrade or any others. I couldn't tell the difference between my unbalanced $100 dac and my balanced $800 dac and the amp, while clearly better than the o2 I have did not sound THAT much better and it did not give my HD800s a soul.
 After using balanced connections it sounds like night and day.
 My faith has been restored in my investment and the power of quality equipment.
 Seems like that capacitor upgrade will be worth my time after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Edit: If you're still using this amp through the SE output, stop now. After comparing the two more closely it's obvious that the SE is trash compared to the balanced output.
 Edit#2: Holy balls it sounds good.
 Edit#3: Dumping my girlfriend, don't need her anymore.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> I just switched from SE to balanced and holy balls it sounds great. For the first time ever I have an involuntary smile on my face while wearing the HD800s!. I was expecting a change but not like this. It sounds like I have entirely different headphones on! There's actually...SOUL!!! HUMANITY!! in my HD800s!! Yaaaaaaaaay for once I can be happy with my headphones!!!!!!
> It sounds less believably realistic, and it has some issues with the bass and some other things I have yet to put my finger on, but it doesn't even matter because it's oozing euphony. My ears are in some kind of heaven.
> 
> There's a small buzzing in the left channel meaning I messed up on the soldering somewhere, that's going to be a p.i.t.a. to troubleshoot.
> ...




Yep, it's true night and day difference between SE and balanced. I'm just as happy with mine as you are with yours


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> I just switched from SE to balanced and holy balls it sounds great. For the first time ever I have an involuntary smile on my face while wearing the HD800s!. I was expecting a change but not like this. It sounds like I have entirely different headphones on! There's actually...SOUL!!! HUMANITY!! in my HD800s!! Yaaaaaaaaay for once I can be happy with my headphones!!!!!!
> It sounds less believably realistic, and it has some issues with the bass and some other things I have yet to put my finger on, but it doesn't even matter because it's oozing euphony. My ears are in some kind of heaven.
> 
> There's a small buzzing in the left channel meaning I messed up on the soldering somewhere, that's going to be a p.i.t.a. to troubleshoot.
> ...


 
 Congratulations!!  Sounds like your ears healed already.  I would still go easy with the volume for awhile.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I disconnected my SE internally because I don't use SE at all.
  
 If you are happy with Canare star quads...you gotta try Mogami 2534!  This cable is specifically designed for extended high frequency.  Studios and live sound engineers use this cable when running long cable distance and don't want to lose any HF.  I changed out all my headphone cables from Canare starquads to Mogami 2534 (use double cabling 2L+2L- x 2R+2R-).  The difference is very very drastic.  I am planning to change all my internal cables of LDMKVI+ to Mogami.
  
 The small buzzing noise could be from the tube.  Try trouble shooting by moving x2 power tubes x1 driver tube from the left channel to the right channel and see if the buzzing noise goes away from left but is on the right.  It might not be the cable.  Try trouble shooting with easy stuff first.  IMO, 9 out of 10 small buzzing noise typically comes from the power tube.


----------



## coinmaster

My ear isn't healed yet. I just suffered through it because it sounded so good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I think I might be in the green within a few weeks though,
 As for the cable, if you really believe cables can make a difference that much why don't you try out http://www.ebay.com/itm/24AWG-7N-PURE-CRYO-TREATED-UPOCC-COPPER-TYPE-6-LITZ-CUSTOM-WIRE-PER-FEET-pS-/271825235348? and let us know how it sounds
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. That's about the best quality copper wire you can buy anywhere.
 Technically speaking this mogami/canare stuff is junk in comparison..
 Besides.....soldering and putting together hd800 connectors is a nightmare, not something I look forward to ever doing again.


----------



## SoundEngineer

coinmaster said:


> My ear isn't healed yet. I just suffered through it because it sounded so good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was thinking about those cryo treated occ cables but they are way out of my price range for cable upgrade.  I wouldn't call Mogami a junk unless you have tried them yourself.  I have not tried the cryo treated copper yet so I can't compare them to mogami.  I would still not call mogami junk even if there is a drastic difference between cryo occ and mogami.  I don't think you can get any cables better than Mogamis at the price range.  For a budget cable...you can't beat it.  If price wasn't an object...Yes, I would give those cryo occ a try.
  
 Anyways...good to hear that you are able enjoy your amp now with the balanced connection.  Have you trouble shoot the buzzing noise by changing position of the tubes?


----------



## coinmaster

Both canare and mogami are low purity ofc copper. The one I listed is 7n occ copper.
 Cryo aside, 7n is the best purity possible unless you are NASA. and occ is greatly superior to ofc. Plus type 6 litz is the best litz configuration there is for negating skin effect among other things. So technically speaking, canara and mogami are junk in comparison.
  
 As for the buzzing. I think it was some sort of ground loop, it's gone now. I rearranged my room and redid all the cables so I must have had something plugged in to another outlet before that I shouldn't have.
 My ear is not happy today, It's killing me to say it but I have to wait about a week before I even attempt using my headphones again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 I'm still waiting on my driver tubes to arrive anyway, still using stock. The post office has spent the last week and a half ping ponging it to every state surrounding connecticut except connecticut where I am, Sometimes I wonder.....


----------



## Maxx134

This is good info on wires and after 3X failure of my connectors I decided to wire st8 into hd800 and it is not hard if you check the hd800 mod threads there is a link to Purrin site which shows how..
The HD800 is a perfect match for these LDMK6&8 amps...

They are also great to mod and upgrade as me & "SoundEngineer" are doing.
I would also like to thank all those who PMed me with modding tips and suggestions as I plan to do as a project


----------



## coinmaster

3 failures. Ouch. You musta been doing something wrong 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If you tin the connections first it's easy peasy to solder as long as you have a clamp and a solder remover if u mess up.
 My main problem was putting the connectors together after they were soldered. Plus it just took ages to do everything cuz I had cheap equipment and a ghetto continuity tester.


----------



## Maxx134

It was the tension on the wire that the heatshrik tube did not support fully,
plus the stupid tiny micro pins are rediculous to solder any decent guage wire to..

I had to strip down to 2 strands it was just incredibly rediculous to even make such a stupid ars connector!

I will have my tube goodness now flowing straight into the driver terminals..
soon..


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, I just made a big gob of solder on the wire and the pin and then heated them together. You can't really use a thin tin.
 Just got my driver tubes today, so my set up is complete other than circuitry upgrades. The new driver tubes aren't burned in yet but what I can say is that they seem to sacrifice a bit of euphony for speed/clarity/imaging/soundstage/punchiness/holographic sound.
 My ears are still in gaga land but I don't feel that high like I'm having an eargasm like before, at least not to them same extent. However the increase in overall sound quality and sound capability is...stunning to say the least. This is the kind of sound I have been looking for all these years. Hopefully with some burn in it will sound even better. The money was so worth it now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Yeah, I just made a big gob of solder on the wire and the pin and then heated them together. You can't really use a thin tin.
> Just got my driver tubes today, so my set up is complete other than circuitry upgrades. The new driver tubes aren't burned in yet but what I can say is that they seem to sacrifice a bit of euphony for speed/clarity/imaging/soundstage/punchiness/holographic sound.
> My ears are still in gaga land but I don't feel that high like I'm having an eargasm like before, at least not to them same extent. However the increase in overall sound quality and sound capability is...stunning to say the least. This is the kind of sound I have been looking for all these years. Hopefully with some burn in it will sound even better. The money was so worth it now :bigsmile_face: .




Which driver tubes did you get?


----------



## coinmaster

Psvane CV181-TII. Sadly my impression was of about 60 seconds of listening because my ear only just recovered from last session. I'm holding off until thursday before I do any real listening. Worst time to have an injured ear.


----------



## coinmaster

Not being able to listen to it is like stabbing myself in the face with needles.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Not being able to listen to it is like stabbing myself in the face with needles.


 
 I feel your pain. I really do :/


----------



## SonicTrance

Some of you wanted to know how the Mullard 6080 sounded in my mkvi+. 
 The SQ is great and a bit more tube sounding and warmer than my 6H5C's. But they are so noisy with my W1000X that I couldn't use them at all. I tried a couple in my mkivse, and they were dead quiet, even with the sensitive W1000X. The sound was very good. 
 Maybe the mkvi+ is more sensitive to noisy tubes? I don't know
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Here's a pic of the tube. It was advertised as Mullard by the seller but there's no Mullard branding on the tubes. Here they are: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311154206725?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

  
 The mkvi+ with 6H5C's and Psvane UK-6SN7's

  
 My Little Dot rack


----------



## Androb

sonictrance said:


> Some of you wanted to know how the Mullard 6080 sounded in my mkvi+.
> The SQ is great and a bit more tube sounding and warmer than my 6H5C's. But they are so noisy with my W1000X that I couldn't use them at all. I tried a couple in my mkivse, and they were dead quiet, even with the sensitive W1000X. The sound was very good.
> Maybe the mkvi+ is more sensitive to noisy tubes? I don't know
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> The mkvi+ with 6H5C's and Psvane UK-6SN7's
> 
> 
> My Little Dot rack


 
  


 Awesome looking amps!
 But I had the same problem when I had the W1000X. I think you have to rewire them to balanced to use them with this amp.


----------



## SonicTrance

androb said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks=)
 I have re-terminated them with a balanced XLR 4-pin connector. When using the 6H5C's as powers they are quiet. The SE output is useless on this amp IMO. My HE-400i, which I also re-terminated, are quiet with either the 6080's or 6H5C's though. I wish the W1000X weren't so sensitive. If there's some sort of interference to be picked up, they sure picks it up


----------



## Androb

sonictrance said:


> Thanks=)
> I have re-terminated them with a balanced XLR 4-pin connector. When using the 6H5C's as powers they are quiet. The SE output is useless on this amp IMO. My HE-400i, which I also re-terminated, are quiet with either the 6080's or 6H5C's though. I wish the W1000X weren't so sensitive. If there's some sort of interference to be picked up, they sure picks it up


 
 Oh is the w1000x balanced and still not quiet?


----------



## SonicTrance

androb said:


> Oh is the w1000x balanced and still not quiet?


 
 They are quiet with the russian tubes, just not with the Mullards.


----------



## baronbeehive

The mullards can be noisy. I was interested to hear your views because they were not very highly rated on one of the threads, just like a stock power tube. But mullards can lend a bit of tubey wamth but sometimes at a cost of considerable loss of detail but these are pretty mediocre I believe. I don't like the various ones I've tried much, they appear to be unbalanced in various ways.


----------



## baronbeehive

coinmaster said:


> I just switched from SE to balanced and holy balls it sounds great. For the first time ever I have an involuntary smile on my face while wearing the HD800s!. I was expecting a change but not like this. It sounds like I have entirely different headphones on! There's actually...SOUL!!! HUMANITY!! in my HD800s!! Yaaaaaaaaay for once I can be happy with my headphones!!!!!!
> It sounds less believably realistic, and it has some issues with the bass and some other things I have yet to put my finger on, but it doesn't even matter because it's oozing euphony. My ears are in some kind of heaven.......


 
  
 Soul??? Euphony???? HD800's??????? Only joking!!
  


> ...........
> 
> There's a small buzzing in the left channel meaning I messed up on the soldering somewhere, that's going to be a p.i.t.a. to troubleshoot.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great post! I believe I was one of those that recommended the MKVI to you if I remember right so just relieved that you didn't waste your money. But we are on fairly safe ground here with the LD!

 I'm not surprised you've sacrificed a bit of euphony with the Psvane's, if you really want that you could try some Tungsol 6SL7 round black plates, they are cheap and have the same magical sound that the Holy Grail 6SN7's have. I know not everyone likes the ultra smooth syrupy sound but there the ones I use. They have great detail too - a great combination.
  
 I've ordered a set of RCA 6AS7G's because I've always like the sound, and if I still like them I'm thinking of getting rid of all my 6080WB Bendix/Tungsol graphite plates which will be surplus then.
  
 Re the cryo cables, I've seen reviews of cryo'd tubes and they appear really good, so I would think the same applies to the cable treatment.
  
 I believe the SE connection is for backward compatability only - the amp is designed for balanced use.


----------



## coinmaster

baronbeehive said:


> Great post! I believe I was one of those that recommended the MKVI to you.


 
 Thank you for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Never thought HD800s could sound like this. It seems that the vast improvement in sound quality between the stock tubes and the psvane tunes might make up for its lessened euphony, the holographic imaging on them by itself is insane. Sadly I'll have to wait to find out since it could be until May before I can listen to music without reinjuring my ear yet again.


----------



## Maxx134

Finnally found a nice image of our designer of LD...


It can serve as a nice centerpiece for my amp..


----------



## coinmaster

But ninjas are from japan


----------



## Maxx134

Dam...
well it does match the first name...


----------



## Maxx134

Check out the beautys I am replacing my stock pretube resistors with:

220K, 2W, CM2 Series, Metal Film Resistor, 1%, Non-Magnetic audio quality resistors..
woohoo!


----------



## Maxx134

Check out this bad boy thats goin in to replace blue failing resistors in power supply section...


----------



## baronbeehive

My God...... these RCA 6AS7G's are sooooo good! They've brought back the goosepimples I had when I first heard them. I love the sound, its just a fraction soft but I love that, you can listen that much louder if you want without any problems, and everything's perfectly balanced - no one thing stands out. I don't find them closed in at all, it's just that everything fits in it's own space perfectly....... superb!!
  
 Not planning on mixing them with anything else though, think I'll stick to mixing them with driver tubes the conventionaly way, though I can't see why it could cause any problems.
  
 Next thing now is to try some Psvane UK's but the price is a bit of a downer at the moment, let along the price of the Tll's, which I don't think I would like anyway. I'm pretty sure it's goodbye to my cherished Bendixes, I never thought I would say that.............only problem is the slight lack of wet dreams............maybe I should get a refund!!!
  
 Oh and I forgot, they look great in the dark.


----------



## Maxx134

Anybody know whats the best stuff to clean the tube pins?

Good to know about those RCA because the MK6 has so many tube rolling options.


----------



## baronbeehive

Caig DeoxIT to clean centuries of grime, and Caig DeoxIT gold to preserve the finish.


----------



## Redge78

maxx134 said:


> Anybody know whats the best stuff to clean the tube pins?
> 
> Good to know about those RCA because the MK6 has so many tube rolling options.


 
 Hi Maxx134
  
 Nice resistors, you'll have to make us a complete list of what you bought sometime.
  
 Cleaning contacts : I'm using "KF F2"
http://www.conrad.fr/ce/fr/product/065301/Aerosol-100-ml-KF-F2-Special-Contacts-1003


----------



## coinmaster

Someone needs to do these resistor upgrades already and tell us how it sounds.


----------



## Redge78

Maxx123 is planning to do so many changes that it may be tidious to do one change at a time and take enough extra time to analyse what is the gain for each change ... 
 We already know that upgrading the coupling capacitors is a major step in SQ ...


----------



## Maxx134

baronbeehive said:


> Caig DeoxIT to clean centuries of grime, and Caig DeoxIT gold to preserve the finish.



ok thanks I got the stuff:

Also for anybody soldering I must recommend the Cardas solder,
As my hd800 connectors failed 3X because of garbage RadioShack solder that may say same thing but does not perform same as the very old "Archer" brand and now this Cardas goes on so buttery smooth it is excellent.
I hard-wired my HD800 with it.





redge78 said:


> Maxx123 is planning to do so many changes that it may be tidious to do one change at a time and take enough extra time to analyse what is the gain for each change ...
> We already know that upgrading the coupling capacitors is a major step in SQ ...



I am posting a "generalized" expectation of what each component change is expected to do.

It is info gathered from PMs of members I trust.

It is a generalizatiom and most likely there are more aspects and benifits.
 Ok:

The large resistors by the tubes help make tube swapping more noticable.

The resistors in the power supply stage affect noise floor and stability power tube stability.

The coupling caps between pretube & powertube affect sound quality, staging and bass extension.
They are the most noticable upgrade.

The special blue caps affect power tube dynamics in bass.

The tiny set of three resistors on each side by volume knob are direct signal path and should be quality resistors,
not blue chinese specials..
They affect soley what resistors do.
They affect treble & air.

The two bigger reSistors on sides of preamp tubes do the same as the big resistors in making tube swapping differences more noticable.

This is why I bought all 1% tolerance resistors.

These comments are subjective impressions only,
 and thus are debatable.
 They are not law or set in stone.

Anyways, that is a combination of what was implied to me, and what I figured out.

Any more comments would be helpfull..

Edit:
Forgot about the fuses...
The two in middle and one in AC socket...
They should be replaced with quality ceramic type fuses ...
I got these:


I realize I am opening a few debatable topics but the main objective here is to help everyone elevate their LD to unpresidented levels..


----------



## coinmaster

After further listening I like the stock tubes better than the psvane CV181-TII tubes I bought. The psvanes just lack any soul which isn't helping when I own the HD800. I feel a light "high" when I listen to the stock tubes. I don't know why exactly, I assume it's the euphonic sound or the tube sound people refer to if there's a difference. Does anyone know any good driver tubes similar to the stock ones?


----------



## Poladise

Same for me with the stock 6N9P drivers. I havent heard the T2's, but after using Kenrad VT231 & Brimar 6SN7, I stuck with the 6N9Ps, because they're more euphonic. Maybe the Psvane 6SN7 UK would be a good choice as an upgrade. See Soundengineers comments from earlier in this thread.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yes, the things is do you want detail for the sake of it or musicality. That's also why I was interested in trying the UK's but not the Tll's. Might I suggest you at least try the RCA 6SN7 GTB for hardly any money at all, you will get a great smooth, rich balanced sound. Sorry to keep going on about my love for RCA's........ then you can go on from there and as I said before the Tungsol 6SL7's are about as euphonic as you will get, again pretty cheap..... I also love tungsols in case anyone is still in doubt!! I can't remember what driver tubes you were using but if you had dry sounding ones then that will aggravate the problem.
  
 Poladaise, I know there aren't that many RCA 6AS7G's knocking around ebay now but audiotubes.com have plenty if you're still keeping your LD.


----------



## SonicTrance

baronbeehive said:


> Yes, the things is do you want detail for the sake of it or musicality. That's also why I was interested in trying the UK's but not the Tll's. Might I suggest you at least try the RCA 6SN7 GTB for hardly any money at all, you will get a great smooth, rich balanced sound. Sorry to keep going on about my love for RCA's........ then you can go on from there and as I said before the *Tungsol 6SL7's are about as euphonic as you will get, again pretty cheap.....* I also love tungsols in case anyone is still in doubt!! I can't remember what driver tubes you were using but if you had dry sounding ones then that will aggravate the problem.
> 
> Poladaise, I know there aren't that many RCA 6AS7G's knocking around ebay now but audiotubes.com have plenty if you're still keeping your LD.


 
 I bought 4 of these Tung-Sol 6SL7GT's and I'm enjoying them so far. Very smooth and tube like sound. They're actually the first 6SL7's I've tried in the VI+ (I bought the amp without tubes) They weren't exactly cheap though


----------



## coinmaster

sonictrance said:


> )They weren't exactly cheap though


 
 Tell that to the $150 my TIIs cost me. Tell me, does your's give you a "high" when you listen to them?


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Tell that to the $150 my TIIs cost me. Tell me, does your's give you a "high" when you listen to them?


 
 I don't have the TII's but I do have the Psvane Treasure CV181-T which I really enjoy. They are warmer and softer sounding in comparison to the UK-6SN7, which I also got. These 6SL7's don't have a lot of hours on them as I bought them NOS, but they are coming along very nicely.


----------



## coinmaster

The Psvane Treasure CV181-T are basically the the lesser version of the TII. The TII are an improved version.


----------



## ShinAyasaki

Hi there, can somebody recommend me a pair of driver tubes for the MK6, that provide rich, smooth and lush sound with an affordable price ? I already had a pair of RCA 6SN7.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## baronbeehive

shinayasaki said:


> Hi there, can somebody recommend me a pair of driver tubes for the MK6, that provide rich, smooth and lush sound with an affordable price ? I already had a pair of RCA 6SN7.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 If you liked the RCA's then I think you would also like the Tungsol round black plate 6SL7's I mentioned in my last post, they are also rich, smooth and lush but IMO they take it to another level. I can't think of any others with that kind of sound.
  
 Quote:


sonictrance said:


> I don't have the TII's but I do have the Psvane Treasure CV181-T which I really enjoy. They are warmer and softer sounding in comparison to the UK-6SN7, which I also got........


 
  
 How would you describe the UK's, are they musical sounding?


----------



## coinmaster

Sadly I don't have $200 to spend on Tungsol round black plate 6SL7 tubes. That money went to the Psvane tubes I'm now not using,


----------



## SonicTrance

baronbeehive said:


> How would you describe the UK's, are they musical sounding?


 
 They are very detailed and "cold" sounding. Definitely musical though.
  
 My Tung-Sol 6SL7's have black glass with round grey plates. Is there any difference between them and the black plates? Only think I've seen 6SN7's with black plates though.


----------



## baronbeehive

Quote:


coinmaster said:


> Sadly I don't have $200 to spend on Tungsol round black plate 6SL7 tubes. That money went to the Psvane tubes I'm now not using,


 
   
 I'm amazed at that, these were going at around $40 last time I looked!
  
 Quote:


sonictrance said:


> They are very detailed and "cold" sounding. Definitely musical though.
> 
> My Tung-Sol 6SL7's have black glass with round grey plates. Is there any difference between them and the black plates? Only think I've seen 6SN7's with black plates though.


 
  
 The difference is minimal, if any.


----------



## SonicTrance

baronbeehive said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I'm amazed at that, these were going at around $40 last time I looked!




Yeah, I got 4 NOS for $150.


----------



## Maxx134

sonictrance said:


> I don't have the TII's but I do have the Psvane Treasure CV181-T which I really enjoy. They are warmer and softer sounding in comparison to the UK-6SN7, which I also got. These 6SL7's don't have a lot of hours on them as I bought them NOS, but they are coming along very nicely.



your gold knobs look sweet on there..


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> your gold knobs look sweet on there..


 
 Thanks! =) 
 I also like that they're a little bigger than the stock knobs.


----------



## Maxx134

Muuhahahaaa!
I have completed the abomination..


and...
Its ALivE!..


----------



## coinmaster

More details!


----------



## Maxx134

Preliminary sound testing will be done soon..

All functional so far cannot point out any sonic signature except that it is very holographic.

Changed more parts than I want to remember..

Pics to follow.


----------



## Maxx134

It was a massive undertaking.
Took whole weekend fabricating metals & plastics & drilling & alot of making solutions to problems as they arise, in real time. 

Plus dropping circuit board and swapping out multitude of parts that needed to be carefully extract & replaced with new parts which needed shaped into place...

It was torture being carefull like a surgeon,
 then making it all fit plus testing WEW!..

IT finally done 4am & I started Saturday night.
 Listening/testing for a bit but still need install a large LED fan underneath, 
and test for zero DC offset.. 
the last part..

In case anyone wondering,
 yes I have a stereo tube meter in the rear middle..
And theres two digital temperature displays on each transformer cover.



I may post details either in the Little Dot site or the site that shall not be named, or here lol.

But for now taking a break to enjoy..


----------



## baronbeehive

WOW......... that's absolutely awesome. Congratulations on an amazing job!! Wish I had those skills. I like the design touches, don't know what you would call the volume knob...... Gothic, ancient Greek or what!! Well done...... and you're alive to tell the tale...... even better, soundengineer take note!!
  
 I wonder what it sounds like.


----------



## Maxx134

baronbeehive said:


> WOW......... .
> 
> I wonder what it sounds like.



Sounds like a hand held AM radio...


----------



## Redge78

Maxx , congratulations, you did it !!!
  
 I'll come back to you when I'll need advices on amp surgery.
  
 Can't wait to hear from you on the music it plays !


----------



## Maxx134

it is not hard to imagine this sound...

Just imagine a mk6 or mk8 with large caps and resistors,
 but differences are, 
that I replaced the input resistors in audio path by volume knob with the Vishay naked "z-foil" resistors,
 and I also replace the Blue Caps that should not be touched.
I was PMeD by a memeber I trust to do so so,
and so all those changes should definitely bring it up a notch.
Oh also I replaced the four (2per side) driver tube resistors that mirror the large resistor upgrade for driver tubes...

The upgrade/replacements I made to power supply were for optimal heat dispersion & longevity..




I tested the stock blue resistors and most were ok.
but some in power suppy were off by a bit more than 5% I believe due to the heat and dissapation that they barely could handle...

Otherwise you would not notice as these amps just keep going.

The objective here was to have the best true balanced tube amp for the money,
but I am doubting (once moded) they can be beat at many times thier price(in tube alternatives)...


----------



## Redge78

Maxx,
  
 I will not bother you for, say, 15 days, the time for the burn-in of the new caps. But you better start taking notes of the sound changes, I'll want to know everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 In the meantime, how's the temp ? not too high ?
  
  
 And I've found ! This is a "Pirates of the caribbean" style ! 
  
  
 PS : I'm still working on the Lytic bypass for the PSU, I'm in contact with some french "old wise wizard" that explains that it is not that simple ... Anyway, if I give it a GO, I'll let you know.
 PPS : I'll most probably have a HD800 to mod sometime this summer. I have understood that you did it with yours.


----------



## Maxx134

as for heat, it took longer to heat up (4x longer) but reached almost same amount of heat as before..
 so using fan would still be optimal.
Although my room was hot in 80s farenhiet.


----------



## Maxx134

Yeah its like I said its "alive" and I cant pin it down but so far airy is the word.
one more shot live pic before I go MIA..


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> Yeah its like I said its "alive" and I cant pin it down but so far airy is the word.
> one more shot live pic before I go MIA..


 
 Nice work on the amp Maxx!


----------



## Maxx134

baronbeehive said:


> WOW......... that's absolutely awesome. Congratulations on an amazing job!! Wish I had those skills. I like the design touches, don't know what you would call the volume knob...... Gothic, ancient Greek or what!! Well done...... and you're alive to tell the tale...... even better, soundengineer take note!!
> ...



Actually thruout the process I was in PMs with "SoundEngineer" and he has more ambitious plans on the inside and his will be the black mk6 version of an ultimate mod once he gets around to finishing it.


I really would like to publicly thank another member who guided me with valuable info as he did an ultimate internal mod, but I think he rather remaIn anonymous as he sold his unit,
 so just mentioning like this for now.


Edit:

Tube risers -on
Tube dampers-on
Temp meters -activated.
Center Tube meter now functional.
All go..


Will bring it to NY headfi meet on Saturday


----------



## Maxx134

redge78 said:


> Maxx,
> 
> I will not bother you for, say, 15 days, the time for the burn-in of the new caps. But you better start taking notes of the sound changes, I'll want to know everything
> ..



I was not expecting a change like you stated at least not to take me by surprise.

Day 3 a sudden jump in bass authority not expected in an hd800.
Before that it was rather neutral.
I would say it has to be the mundorf caps..


----------



## baronbeehive

maxx134 said:


> ..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very impressive, good luck with the NY meet!
  
 I may be wrong but have you still got the MKVl+?


----------



## Maxx134

baronbeehive said:


> Very impressive, good luck with the NY meet!
> 
> I may be wrong but have you still got the MKVl+?



No I have the MK8se.
The most noticable difference between the two is the tube guards.


----------



## Redge78

Maxx ...
  
 you've got an Yggy !!!
  
  
 You've got an YGGY and you didn't tell ME !!!
  
  
 Me and my Gungnir are not talking to you ... till tomorrow ... night ... late ... and in french ... medieval ... 
  
  
 Yggy + modded HD800 + fancy MK8se ... I can see my future here !


----------



## Audiogalore

maxx134 said:


> Actually thruout the process I was in PMs with "SoundEngineer" and he has more ambitious plans on the inside and his will be the black mk6 version of an ultimate mod once he gets around to finishing it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> Quite different and with a lot of imagination source like audio jewelry for sure


----------



## Maxx134

Haha yes right now it's just a fun experiment into tube amp modding,


But soon it will be more as my eyes have been opened by another, to even more hidden potential that has to be verified first. 

For me the LD is a great platform to learn about tubes as the printed board is pretty straight forward, with exception to power supply.

A printed board is so much easier on the eye than the spagetti mess you see in most tube amps


----------



## Maxx134

For anyone interested in how I put the tube meter in the middle,
here is the source of the tubes,
and I must say, nothing beats a tube meter in real life...
You are mesmerized and when integrating into a tube amp,
it takes on a life of its own.
I will post a vid in future,
but for now here is the info:

http://www.nixiekits.eu/



It has to be seen to be appreciated,
so here is a youtube link of it alone:

https://youtu.be/7zv-6PgoiR4

The best thing, is that when you open and take out of the chasis,
it will fit im between your transformer covers.
Only need to find a more narrow housing.
I chose a metal that is open for ventilation,
As I took off original black middle plate which was protecting/covering two solid state devices bolted onto body.


----------



## Maxx134

soundengineer said:


> I used the most inexpensive 5 1/2" or 140mm Bi-metal Hole Saw for sheet metal.  I bought it for less than $16 from ebay including shipping.
> 
> You don't have to use this one because there are other ones you find at Home Depot or hardware stores for about $20-$54.
> Just hook this up to your cordless handheld drill and use your brute force and make the hole larger.
> ...




This is really an excellent post, I hope Ur still alive from the mods you was onto lol.

Anyways I found that on the MK8, there is also a need for a fan as this unit can get nice and toasty hot as is in stock form

Along with internall moving the cables out of the sides, which is anothet story,
I just finished install of fan today and it was not as hard as the MK6.

Look:


I used the same controller posted for fan control,
and used this fan on ebay:

found heren eBay: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281381583178&alt=web 

And I only had to drill four small holes for the srews to bolt on,
 because the bottom already has enough slots for air to pass thru..

Here is the finished effect of the Led fan:


I have it on loweat setting and unit is now only slightly warm to touch on slowest setting.


Edit:
Retouched the visuals on my 
Little Dot MKVIIIse .
Not many owners of the MK8se I see..


----------



## Poladise

I was ready to sell my VI+ a couple of weeks ago in favour my using my Vio V200 instead, but there's been some changes and I've gone from not really enjoying it, to loving it now. I'd got a quad of RCA 6080s to try. Two were faulty, so with the remaining good pair I decided to try Soundengineers tip (to use at our own risk) of mixing the RCAs with the Thompson 6080WAs. It did sound a bit smoother, but I kept switching to the V200, because I thought it was better.
  
On the VI, it was annoying that balanced out had better soundstage and higher sound quality than SE, but SE was more satisfying to me because of it's stronger bass and fuller tone, so I decided to use my FabFilter proQ vst to reduce the rest of the spectrum by 2dB apart from the lower region I felt lacking. That made balanced sound just as powerful in the bass and it adjusted the tone and body more to my liking and still sounded more detailed than SE. Also added a small boost between 8k-12k to fix the dullish top end of the LCD2s. Was quite happy about not being torn between the two outputs anymore, but still wasnt sure if I was going to keep it.
  
I've been switching between the V200 and VI+ for the past couple of weeks and every time I'd move to the VI, it seemed like there was more edge detail to sounds, like they pop put in the soundstage more, but V200 had a more solid and lush midrange, but in the last few days, the VI has really come alive. Not sure if its the Mundorf caps finally breaking in or the RCA 6080 tubes finally burning in against the Thompsons, but there's this euphonic, smooth and vivid presence with some instruments and vocals that I wasnt getting before. All while still remaining really clear and in focus with that awesome soundstage. 
  
Funny thing is I'm still using the original Shuguang 6n9p drivers. I did prefer them to the kenrads and brimars though and they probably have more hours on them now than anyone ever puts on them. So glad I didn't sell it.


----------



## Maxx134

For anyone who is thinking about letting go either their mk6 or mk8,
I suggest hold on a bit longer as there should be some quite surprising discoveries ahead for us..


----------



## SonicTrance

Anyone have hum problems running 6f8g's in the mk6? I think it might be my chinese adapters that's causing it.


----------



## john57

sonictrance said:


> Anyone have hum problems running 6f8g's in the mk6? I think it might be my chinese adapters that's causing it.


 
 Where is the top wire for the connector on the front or back toward the transformer?


----------



## SonicTrance

john57 said:


> Where is the top wire for the connector on the front or back toward the transformer?




The wires are pointing toward the front. If I wave my hand over the wires the hum becomes greater. It's like they act like antennas.


----------



## Maxx134

I have a pair of tubes I using for pre driver for a while and suddenly two days ago one of them turns microphonic..
Still plays fine I just cant touch it .
not that I touch them anyways except when swapping..

Edit:
The last few pages made me think maybe we should have a list of fav tube and tube combinations for these units..


----------



## baronbeehive

Sorry about the double post..... don't know how you delete these things.


----------



## baronbeehive

Great idea, I'll start the ball rolling by stating the obvious: Power tubes - RCA 6AS7G, (which I've just returned to after a long period with the Bendix 6080WB's), because of their silky smoothness, excellent balance and a slight hint of tubeyness while still having good, if not great detail. They are outstading value tubes. Driver tubes - Tung Sol 6SL7 round plate because they have better detail than the RCA's and cut through the tubeyness with an attacking leading edge but at the same time manage the peculiar tungsol trick of being very liquid and magical sounding and are very relaxing to listen to while not leaving anything out of the mix. You could listen to this combination for hours on end, very realistic sounding and musical but perhaps those who prefer a more attacking live sound or more in your face type sound might like to look at other combinations starting with more transparent power tubes perhaps.
  
 These are my current, and probably future end game tubes. Feel free to add your comment or your own favourites and why.
  
 .............just thinking, maybe that wasn't very helpful Maxx134. What about listing the tubes we have had along with their characteristics like this:
  
 Power tubes:
  
 Bendix 6080WB - Very detailed, good instrumental separation, airy, spacial, good balance, live sound, musical, not harsh, good bass - rating: 1, (on a scale of, say, 1-5 starting at 1+ going downwards)
 Tung Sol 7236 - Analytical sound, cold, not very musical don't rate them highly personally - rating: <3
 RCA 6AS7G - Good detail though not the last word, very pleasant musically though, slight tubeyness, smooth, silky treble, good bass, relaxing to listen to, exceptional balance and effortless cohesiveness of soundstage. Tubeyness makes vocals very pleasant - rating: -1
  
 Driver tubes:
  
 RCA 6SN7GTB - Description same as power tube above, great value all rounder - rating: 1-
 RCA Gray Glass - Very laid back light ultra smooth sound lacking body and balance, could listen for hours but detail lost in the fog - rating: 3
 Raytheon 6SN7GT flat plate/T plate - Detailed, musical, good dynamics, live sound, well balanced, live sound, good bass - rating: 1-
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top T plate - Lively, light, attacking kind of sound, sharp and crisp, good balance, quite exciting, not smooth particularly, good soundstage due to the sharp emphasis of notes, bass was quite light I thought - rating: 2-
 Brimar ECC33/CV1988/6SN7 oval plate - Very detailed, punchy, exciting, dynamic, airy, instruments jumping out at you in an uncohesive way which is why I don't think they are well balanced, they are slightly over the top,great frequency extension, silky treble and punchy bass, they are quite exceptional for vocals however but I don't think this makes them worth it for me - rating: 2+
 Tung Sol 6SN7GT flat plate - same as power tube above rating: <3
 Tung Sol 6SN7GT round plate - exceptional sound for me, refined, smooth, silky, detailed, liquid, 3d soundstage, very balanced, refined, but I would not call it a live sound due to the sweetness which is slightly artificial, exceptional bass and treble, lends a magical feeling to some elements in the music, some say the top end is rolled off, I haven't heard this. They have less gain than 6SL7's with more fine control on the volume know so perhaps that's why some rate them higher - rating: 1
 Tung Sol 6SL7GT round plate - pretty much the same as 6SN7GT above - rating 1
 Tung Sol 6SU7GTY - military matched plates to high tolerances, sounds exactly the same as the 6SL7 to me - rating 1
  
 All of that is from memory not comparison testing. (Ratings taking into account SQ and personal preference)
  
 Is that more like you were thinking Maxx134?
  
 Quote:


poladise said:


> ........... in the last few days, the VI has really come alive. Not sure if its the Mundorf caps finally breaking in or the RCA 6080 tubes finally burning in against the Thompsons, but there's this euphonic, smooth and vivid presence with some instruments and vocals that I wasnt getting before. All while still remaining really clear and in focus with that awesome soundstage. ..........


 
 So are you going to keep both amps now that you're getting the sound you like with the LD?


----------



## Poladise

baronbeehive said:


> So are you going to keep both amps now that you're getting the sound you like with the LD?


 
  
Not sure tbh. VI+ wins overall, but I really enjoy the Vio as well. v200 is a strange beast for a solid state. It's warm and has harmonic colour like a good tube amp, but it sounds quite static / rigid, probably because of the extreme damping. It can sound cleaner, more forceful and electric than the VI+, but the imaging in the soundstage appears quite 2d. When I switch over to VI+ it's like having flat textures on a pc game, then turning bump mapping on. There's 3d depth and shape around each sound. It's smoother, but more detailed somehow. More natural and 'right' sounding to my ears. 
  
This is with the current Shuguang6N9P/mixed 6080s config I'm using though. I swapped in some RCA 6SN7GTBs and they're wider, more smooth & full sounding, but they're not as alive in the midrange as the shuguangs. I'll save the RCA drivers for when I have a more SS sounding power tube to try.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Uh-oh. My Little Dot VI doesn't want to power up. I checked the fuses and it doesn't look like they are the culprits. I think I read somewhere that the power switches have been problematic for some folks. Anything else I should check out? I'd rather not ship the amp back to China. So hopefully it is a repair I can either do myself or fins someone in Chicago to help with. 
  
  
 I've also sent Little Dot an e-mail, but thought it would be worthwhile checking with HeadFi folks as well.


----------



## Maxx134

Does the first meter light up at all?


----------



## SonicTrance

So, I got a spare 5998 today and installed it in the MK6 (right channel) to make sure it works. And the bias meter for the right channel is showing almost 50 mA while the left is showing the normal 30ish mA. I tried moving the tube to the other socket on the right channel and the meter still shows about 50 mA. The tube looks exactly like all other 5998's I have. Is there 5998's with different spec?
 The sound is good and all. It's just the bias problem.
  
 Any ideas why this is happening?


----------



## SonicTrance

I've tried the tube in the left channel now as well and the left meter is now showing 50 mA. I don't want to use this tube now. It has to mean that the other tube in that channel gets wrong bias?
  
 Here's a link to the ebay auction so you can see pictures. http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-tubes-JAN-CAHG-5998-CHATHAM-/261886323745?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=zq5wpO8wsj2StIWjcmDepUD80A8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Maxx134

I thought when tube is old and life is going, thats when the bias meter goes up...
It should read as other samr tubes but if higher then its going bad.
Yet I dont think U have to worry untill it gets worse.
I think tou should ask "DavidZheZhe" over at little dot site

Edit:
Just saw listing, 
those are used tubes so although they say its tested good, your little dot is tellling you the truth with the bias meters..


----------



## john57

I had tubes that tested good on two different tube testers  but will not work on the LD V+ When the bias meters start to drift I will change the tubes right away.


----------



## SonicTrance

Ok, thanks for your answers guys. I wont be using this tube.


----------



## Maxx134

When I first recieved my new MK8,
One tube brought the meter all way to 100!
It glowed intensly and got hot fast!
this tube worked normal for first few minutes...
So the meter is actually an excellent feature in theae Little Dots..


----------



## Sam-Fi

How does a modded MK VIII stack up against the competition of high end amps with the HD800?


----------



## Redge78

sam-fi said:


> How does a modded MK VIII stack up against the competition of high end amps with the HD800?


 
 Maxx will be the "man who knows".
 We should have the first batch of mods done this weekend, we will have a clearer view of how well the MK8se performs after that.


----------



## Maxx134

Well, I think with what me and *"Redge78"* have done in last few months,for me it will be "last" mods lol.

I feel I must thank Redge78 for much knowledge and help in boosting the MK8se to new territory.

We have entered modding past the usual coupling cap and plate resistor mods..

In fact, every area of the board was scrutinized by me and especially Redge78 who took on a more technical approach..
We both also had tube designers to ask for precious input.
I had a Russian(of little use lol) and he had a French person to consult.
Anyways, with his help and my quick implementation much was done..
Suffice to say with mods any tube amp will not only improve, but take on a more noticable character..
The character of an MK8se, is one of air and delicacy.

Final enhancements shoulf be completed by weekend, 
and then we both have to burn in, and do listening trials..

My version is the compact stock size,
yet high quality and nothing overlooked version...

Redge78 version is a more all-out, no holds barred version.

I would say this is truley end game level for higher impedance cans.
Still, considering the massive improvement in power reserves, 
I would not hesitate to use planars on Redge78 version!


----------



## Maxx134

sam-fi said:


> How does a modded MK VIII stack up against the competition of high end amps with the HD800?



Aha!
I see your post in sale thread:
"The amplifier won 1st prize in a major competition in Hong Kong. 
And In this whole set up has great reputation in most China Headfiers.
The upgrades in the amplifier included better CSPs, better soldering material, better cable and the famous Mullard tube."

So I assume your question was in regard to what you had as modded Mk8se..

We have taken a larger approach..

I have researched China threads and learnt about the various upgrades they offered,
 and that the MK8, by winning at that meet, had this potential.

The newer mods increase speed, detail, air, and transparency & power of stock tubes..
Yes, stock power tubes are more transparent.

1-upgrade & change of power supply area components.
2-upgrade & change of driver tube circuit components.
3-upgrade & change of power tube circuit
4-addition of components to the power tubes.

This is not just an update of higher quality parts,
but an actual change in parameters of each section to more optimal design.
It should be noted that the original design is a masterpiece which was muted down for consumer affordability, 
as chinese market is alwasy cost cutting & competitive, 
so all our mk6/8 units have potential to optimize..
The best part of all this discovery made,
is that it can ALL BE IMPLEMENTED ON BOTH MK6 AND MK8se!

So naturally, we will have to make a new thread for this "Ultimate mod"..


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> Aha!
> I see your post in sale thread:
> "The amplifier won 1st prize in a major competition in Hong Kong.
> And In this whole set up has great reputation in most China Headfiers.
> ...




Pics, we need pics I'm still waiting for my Mundorf caps to arrive. Really looking forward to hear that upgrade.


----------



## Maxx134

Ok I would like to present things in a structured way and posting pics can Be intimidating or cause more questions than can answer now..
The mods are not optimal in this thread.
It truley deserves its own thread.

Also, none of my pics are current, well,
actually will not be current once I do my last updates this weekend.

Also another point not discussed,
 the input wiring which I feel is sub-par..


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> Ok I would like to present things in a structured way and posting pics can Be intimidating or cause more questions than can answer now..
> The mods are not optimal in this thread.
> It truley deserves its own thread.
> 
> ...




All good. Start a new thread, good idea.


----------



## SonicTrance

So, I've now upgraded the four caps by the driver tubes to Mundorf M-Cap Supreme silver/gold/oil 0.68uf 1000vdc. 
  
 Here's some pics:
 What it looked like before the upgrade

  
 And after..

  

  

  
 I also drilled for 120mm fans and put them on the outside.

  

  
 I'm letting things burnin for the moment but I already like what I hear! Getting the board in and out of the chassis was the hardest part and it was really a tight fit to get it back in. The hardest thing was to get the tube sockets aligned with the holes on top of chassis. I'll report back about the sound after a little burnin


----------



## SonicTrance

I'm only about 10h in on these new caps but they really lifted the amp to a whole other level! Increased sound stage and clarity, everything is better really. I'm having a hard time putting it into words, lol. One thing is for certain though, no amount of tube rolling can ever impact the sound like these caps have


----------



## Maxx134

Excellent work as those 
are one of highest rated caps.
Right now Im busy re-wiring my unit with heavier guage silver plated aerospace wire for input, and Norne OCC copper for output ..


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> Excellent work as those
> are one of highest rated caps.
> Right now Im busy re-wiring my unit with heavier guage silver plated aerospace wire for input, and Norne OCC copper for output ..




Thanks! The amount of detail is amazing with these caps. They're worth the cost!


----------



## Redge78

sonictrance said:


> Thanks! The amount of detail is amazing with these caps. They're worth the cost!


 
 I think we have a new "Mod addict" here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And congratz, the Mundorf S/G/O are the best choice until you win the lottery and go for Duelund.


----------



## SonicTrance

redge78 said:


> I think we have a new "Mod addict" here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think we do  I still can't believe the difference it made, lol


----------



## SonicTrance

sonictrance said:


> Anyone have hum problems running 6f8g's in the mk6? I think it might be my chinese adapters that's causing it.


 
 I've found the root of this problem. It's the 5998 power tubes. Previously I had only tried the 6F8G's with 5998's as powers. With a set of 6AS7G's in there's no more hum. Very strange
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 There's no hum with other driver tubes together with 5998's. Anyway, At least I can enjoy my 6F8G's again


----------



## SonicTrance

It would be interesting to see if someone else with the mk6 could replicate this problem. Is there someone in here that got a mk6 and some 5998's + 6F8G's?


----------



## Maxx134

One thing for sure is that any hum is not from the power supply itself but rather
I suspect grounding issue.
once I wiggeled my rear xlr connextor and hum dissapeared, as was a contact issue as well.
Edit:
Oh, also similar senario happened to me with swaping driver tubes that had slighly different parameters with heater and plate resistance.


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> One thing for sure is that any hum is not from the power supply itself but rather
> I suspect grounding issue.
> once I wiggeled my rear xlr connextor and hum dissapeared, as was a contact issue as well.
> Edit:
> Oh, also similar senario happened to me with swaping driver tubes that had slighly different parameters with heater and plate resistance.


 
 But if the hum isn't from the power supply why is there only hum with the 5998's and not with 6AS7G's? I've swapped back and forth a few times with same results. And like I said, there's NO hum with 5998's and other driver tubes than 6F8G's.


----------



## Benny-x

sonictrance said:


> I've found the root of this problem. It's the 5998 power tubes. Previously I had only tried the 6F8G's with 5998's as powers. With a set of 6AS7G's in there's no more hum. Very strange
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


sonictrance said:


> It would be interesting to see if someone else with the mk6 could replicate this problem. Is there someone in here that got a mk6 and some 5998's + 6F8G's?


 
 Back in the day of when the Mk-VI was released LOTS of people used it with the Tung-Sol 5998 tubes. Back then they didn't sell for the crazy price they do now,  though they weren't cheap. I followed them for a while because I was in the market and there were never any reports of that tube causing any issues with the amp. There were lots of combos, I'm sure someone would have come across a "bad pairing" if it existed.
  


sonictrance said:


> But if the hum isn't from the power supply why is there only hum with the 5998's and not with 6AS7G's? I've swapped back and forth a few times with same results. And like I said, there's NO hum with 5998's and other driver tubes than 6F8G's.


 
 I'd just chalk it up to those tubes having gone bad or becoming microphonic. They're tubes, it happens.


----------



## Benny-x

@Maxx134 Where's the insano modding post? I've been keeping my eye on here for days now. I'm in the Mk-VI+ camp, the Mk-VIII just never spoke to me for some reason, so I'm looking forward to your partner in crime's mod and review info. So, bring it on


----------



## Maxx134

We are still in sound testing phase and dont want to flood this thread with questions..
We will start thread soon.
The reasoning for delay is to properly accummilate correlations of both evidence & sonic impressions and technical explanations for the more scrutinizing members who require proof.
We want to have a solid foundational basis and reasoning for every change..


----------



## SonicTrance

benny-x said:


> Back in the day of when the Mk-VI was released LOTS of people used it with the Tung-Sol 5998 tubes. Back then they didn't sell for the crazy price they do now,  though they weren't cheap. I followed them for a while because I was in the market and there were never any reports of that tube causing any issues with the amp. There were lots of combos, I'm sure someone would have come across a "bad pairing" if it existed.
> 
> I'd just chalk it up to those tubes having gone bad or becoming microphonic. They're tubes, it happens.




Thanks for your reply, I get where your coming from. Though I have a hard time believing that both my quad sets of 5998's would be bad just cause they hum when using 6F8G's as drivers when they sound amazing with all other driver tubes. 
I'm gonna let this go now though and not worry about it as I can still use the 6F8G's with other power tubes.


----------



## SonicTrance

john57 said:


> I had tubes that tested good on two different tube testers  but will not work on the LD V+ When the bias meters start to drift I will change the tubes right away.


 
 I asked David about this and he stated this: "Yes, the bias meter reading is fine as the Little Dot MK VI+ auto-biases. As long as the indicator is not all the way left or right you will be fine."
 So i guess it's fine to use tubes that doesn't show accurate readings on the meter as long as it's not totally wrong. It's near impossible though with my OCD, I want exact readings on both sides


----------



## john57

sonictrance said:


> I asked David about this and he stated this: "Yes, the bias meter reading is fine as the Little Dot MK VI+ auto-biases. As long as the indicator is not all the way left or right you will be fine."
> So i guess it's fine to use tubes that doesn't show accurate readings on the meter as long as it's not totally wrong. It's near impossible though with my OCD, I want exact readings on both sides


 
 I do not entirely agree with this. Most of the many NOS tubes that I used and tried do read fairly closely on the meters. Some of the compatible tube types will show some differences on the meters final settings. Any large differences is a bad tube somewhere in my book.   But I do not wait for the meters to go max or min to change tubes. Why settle for weaker performance especially with the mods that you put into the amp?


----------



## SonicTrance

john57 said:


> I do not entirely agree with this. Most of the many NOS tubes that I used and tried do read fairly closely on the meters. Some of the compatible tube types will show some differences on the meters final settings. Any large differences is a bad tube somewhere in my book.   But I do not wait for the meters to go max or min to change tubes. Why settle for weaker performance especially with the mods that you put into the amp?


 
 Yes, don't get me wrong. I agree with you 100%. I'm following your advice not to use tubes that doesn't read "normal" on the meters. I just posted Davids response for anyone that was interested to know what Little Dot had to say about this.


----------



## Mogos

I possess the Little Dot MK VI+ for three years. I have bought it with two sets of tubes (factory 6080W).
 I enjoy listening to music on it very much.  After  two years of using it I have started to hear random noises  in the background. The black background has been “spoiled” from time to time or sometimes for all the time when on. Tube rolling did not help.  I have started to think about a new amp. This time SE one.  So when the opportunity have emerged for testing the Auralic Taurus for one week I got exited starting to imaging what improvements from so acclaimed amp I can hear.  I have got it test it and returned it back without any regret. Taurus is very good amplifier. Had some superiority in the representation of the lower frequencies and prat but lacked the live sound factor I value very very much in Dot. After the “experiment” my Little Dot became even more precious to me than before. I decided to go for new tubes. Paired, halves balanced and all what is necessary to obtain perfect much. I have bought new Telefunkens in hope the background will be again a black one. It did not happened. There is improvement but from time to time I hear the noise.  But having in memory the comparison with Taurus I decided to live with it. Even more I decided to start modifications inspired by this thread. Today I would like to present the first stage of modifications(in plan are three). The aim was to make more space for future electronics changes and to improve the effectiveness of cooling (active and passive). I have measured temperature on the amp with the standard fans when on and find out that it was around 51 degrees in the hottest spot. I decided to go for solution with thermoregulators and powering the cooling system from external power source. Now I have programmed the cooling system to turn on when the temperature in the hottest spot reaches around 60 degrees and turns off when it is cooled down to 40 degrees (and the whole cycle starts again). Starting the amp with the ambient temperature 25 degrees gives around 60 minutes without fans spining. How I have done it you can see on the photos.


----------



## SonicTrance

Wow, that's one advanced cooling unit you made there, looks really great! Hope you get rid of the noise. Have you looked at the board for bad caps and resistors?


----------



## Mogos

I will start touching the electronics on the end. Now I am working on the cage for the electrontubes with earthing. Just an idea that I will stop all the different source electromagnetic waves flaying in the air . No idea if it will have any effect but for certain will not harm. Noise is still there from time to time but lately not so offen.
  
 Regards


----------



## coinmaster

Does anyone know the power draw in watts from the MKVI+?


----------



## Maxx134

sonictrance said:


> john57 said:
> 
> 
> > I had tubes that tested good on two different tube testers  but will not work on the LD V+ When the bias meters start to drift I will change the tubes right away.
> ...



The problem is that David is a seller and host/moderator of the website, 
Yet he is not the engineer..
My guess is that he has to consult with the designer, Sword-yang, to get answers, because I myself asked some technical questions in the past and recieved no answer from David, so thats my guess.




sonictrance said:


> Wow, that's one advanced cooling unit you made there, looks really great! Hope you get rid of the noise. Have you looked at the board for bad caps and resistors?



I was going to say the same...
Usually the unit is built to last longer than 3yrs easy without issue,
But there can be a problem with caps drying up or going bad specifically due to the heat problem..
In fact most all caps have that issue.


So I would look for any swelling of the caps circled, as none of his resistors do not look burnt from the pics:

its a long shot because it depends what is the actual noise herd.
could very well be the driver tubes as well.


----------



## Redge78

Hi all,
  
 regarding the background noise, before doing anything costly (or silly ... like selling the unit ...) you ought to clean all contact surfaces there are in the amp, with some "special contact" spray.
  
 RCA - XLR - the inside of the pot - the gain selectors - the tube holders (or whatever the name is) - the input plug ... absolutely everything
 And you can you use some cotton cloth with the product and rub with love.
  
 That solved the backgroung noise problems I had some time ago.


----------



## Maxx134

Excellent point (as usual)


----------



## Maxx134

I just experienced a tiny hum problem that went away when I swapped the two driver tubes to see if hum would also switch sides,
buth then it totally dissapeared,
So I believe I need to clean my tube pins..


----------



## Suuup

How is the Mk VI with Audeze LCD-2 compared to Beyer T1? I'm not sure which headphone to get, since they're the same price.


----------



## Audiogalore

suuup said:


> How is the Mk VI with Audeze LCD-2 compared to Beyer T1? I'm not sure which headphone to get, since they're the same price.


 
 Well if you are looking for excitement get the LCD 2. The T1 is very neutral with more depth and honest through out the frequencies. Both are great and which ever one choose you will not regret.
  
 Enjoy music!


----------



## Roscoeiii

suuup said:


> How is the Mk VI with Audeze LCD-2 compared to Beyer T1? I'm not sure which headphone to get, since they're the same price.


 

I'd suggest trying to hear both. Perhaps they are both in the Cable Company Lending Library?


----------



## Suuup

roscoeiii said:


> The problem is that I'm from Europe, and no one is selling the LCD-2 here, and the only place that I could find, where I can try the T1 is 2 hours away.
> 
> I'd suggest trying to hear both. Perhaps they are both in the Cable Company Lending Library?


----------



## Maxx134

Yes the lcd2 is more bass heavy or less bright and can be moded nicely.
The T1 is very nice and a brighter soundstage.
It doesnt matter which as the amp will play both very well so you have to figure what your tastes are if U cant hear them.

Also,
I would like to know how long everyones amp takes to warm up before the second meter kicks in.

Upon turning on my unit, it takes about 2:10 min into a song before meter glows and finnally kicks in at 2:17 mark..

During this approximate two minute time span,
the driver stage is functional,
and the power stage acts as a pass thru.
So you can hear your "driver tube" stage,
and later compare how different it sounds once the power tube stage is enabled,
 once the amp is fully on.

The danger is making sure your headphones are NOT plugged in during the time frame when the unit comes on...

So my qusetions are:
1- how long does Your unit take to turn on.
2- do you notice a difference in quality (not volume or power) during the time before power on fully?
You are essentially hearing just the driver tubes and coupling caps signature...

Anyways if you do try, just be very carefull to disconnect your headphones before the second meter kicks in!


----------



## SonicTrance

I've never listened to the amp before the second meter kicks in, but since I changed the power resistors it feels like the amp takes longer to warm up. I've not clocked it exactly but it's around 4 min. I have the mk6, as you know


----------



## SonicTrance

Here's some pictures from the power resistor upgrade. They are Mills MRA-5 1% tolerance. I also changed the four on top of the board of course, but forgot to take photos
  

  

  

  

  
 I also changed transformer covers to these silver, much larger, ones. Much more esthetically pleasing IMO


----------



## Maxx134

DaM that looks beautiful!
gold knob & silver covers!
sweet.

I am also still upgrading my visuals.

Did you remove the small center cover?
(edit: ok I see it)
It is not really necessary and you can also paint it silver.
It is to protect you the power regulators from being touched as they run hot as all the power for power tube section runs thru them.
The driver tube section and control circuit(opamp) is independantly powered.
This is an excellent design.


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> DaM that looks beautiful!
> gold knob & silver covers!
> sweet.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I had to file down the center heat sink a bit to make it fit between the new transformer covers, lol. Thing is, if I were to paint it I wouldn't get the brushed aluminum finish to match the rest. I was thinking about just stripping the paint off it, but I just wanted to put everything together and listen to it Maybe later...


----------



## Maxx134

For those interested, 
the left side of unit gets hotter because of a regulator with heatsink there...
The power cables on that side fill the top corner, 
and effectively blocks air circulation on that side:

So I have moved the power cable easily to lower part of amp(up in pic), away from heat build up and creating air circulation on that side.
I used hot glue gun to position cable.
Now unit is cooler that side & takes longer to build up heat:


----------



## Maxx134

sonictrance said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > DaM that looks beautiful!
> ...



Yeah that is actually not a heatsink at all and does nothing to help with heat.
It is just a nice cover to protect the power regulators:


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> Yeah that is actually not a heatsink at all and does nothing to help with heat.
> It is just a nice cover to protect the power regulators:


 
 Yeah, I doesn't make direct contact with the power regulators, but it's shaped like a heatsink, that's why I'm calling it that


----------



## john57

I noticed that the "regulators" are using isolating washers.  I wonder if the cover are to protect users from voltages at the top of the regulators.


----------



## Maxx134

john57 said:


> I noticed that the "regulators" are using isolating washers.  I wonder if the cover are to protect users from voltages at the top of the regulators.



I will touch with my finger and let U know...


----------



## john57

maxx134 said:


> I will touch with my finger and let U know...


 
 Make sure you wet your finger!! Seriously I would check with a meter.


----------



## Maxx134

Just kidding!
they are only for securing it.
Maybey also thermal bond.
Notice the screws bonding the case to metal so it is grounded:

 Those regulators have 3 heavy wired connections on inside.


----------



## john57

Could not tell from the picture if the screws have isolating washers also. Since there is three wired connections on bottom the top hat regs is not alive.


----------



## SonicTrance

john57 said:


> Could not tell from the picture if the screws have isolating washers also. Since there is three wired connections on bottom the top hat regs is not alive.


 
 I'm pretty sure there's no washers under those screws. You can only see the screw heads.


----------



## Maxx134

The only thing you have to worry about these regulators, is the wire connection.

It has come loose to two others in this thread besides me, who have opened board out.
I had to strip wire & resolder:


So when you decide to open & pull out board,
Check these short wires that may get pulled...


----------



## baronbeehive

Maybe that's what happened to ozaudios when he blew his amp.


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> The only thing you have to worry about these regulators, is the wire connection.
> It has come loose to two others in this thread besides me, who have opened board out.
> I had to strip wire & resolder:
> 
> ...




Yeah, I had to resolder a wire too. It was one of those that connects to the large caps.


----------



## Maxx134

The wire used in these amps is a decent guage but unfortunately brittle so I replaced all mine,
but I would not recommend that to those that are not proficient in electronics or havent studied where all the wires go.
As long as it is not moved you have no worries.

I changed mine for other reasons such as sonic improvements of higher quality wire.


----------



## Maxx134

sonictrance said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing you have to worry about these regulators, is the wire connection.
> ...



look at this pic.
you see those two thin blue wires?
They are the left/right positives for your output (!)..
Theres 2 more wires like these two thin ones, for the Negatives(L/R, red wires), and then there is the slightly larger guage black ground wires...

I replaced those wires coming off board to the connectors for better cable, 
and they should be twisted, not paralleled.


----------



## coinmaster

Has anyone thought of mixing capacitors in the same way Sound engineer mixed power tubes for the "best of both worlds"?
For example, Duelund cast capacitors supposedly have "smoother harmonics and better midrange balance"compared to Mundorf s/g/o and mundorf has more "rich, holographic sound". 

2 Mundorf caps and 2 duelund caps. Duelund caps are like $200 a pop though.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Has anyone thought of mixing capacitors in the same way Sound engineer mixed power tubes for the "best of both worlds"?
> For example, Duelund cast capacitors supposedly have "smoother harmonics and better midrange balance"compared to Mundorf s/g/o and mundorf has more "rich, holographic sound".
> 
> 2 Mundorf caps and 2 duelund caps. Duelund caps are like $200 a pop though.


 
 I wont do that. I'm very happy with my Mundorf caps


----------



## coinmaster

A little more research seems to reveal that Duelund Cast-cu pio caps have the sonic attributes of both Mundorf s/g/o and Duelund VSF-cu caps, no mixing needed.
It's a $900 upgrade but I'm gonna do it.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> A little more research seems to reveal that Duelund Cast-cu pio caps have the sonic attributes of both Mundorf s/g/o and Duelund VSF-cu caps, no mixing needed.
> It's a $900 upgrade but I'm gonna do it.




Please post pictures and impressions when your done. Looking forward to it. Good luck!


----------



## coinmaster

While i'm preparing to add the duelund caps is there any definitive guide on what goes where and resistors of choice for the resistor upgrades on the mkvi+? I don't want to mess up my amp.

It seems that z-foil "naked" resistors are the best resistors out there.
Can one not just use z-foil resistors throughout the entire amp and just connect them in parallel/series to get the desired ratings?
They also have "multi-chip" versions you can order for no additional charge to custom power/ohm ratings.


----------



## Mogos

Maxx134 I have a request. Can you make a list of wire gauges (with approximate summary length) needed for Little Dot VI.
 To order some with special technologies inside takes time and I would like to avoid dissassembly of the amp for several times to minimise the probability of "accident".
 Do you know approximately when will start the thread on ultimate mod of Little Dot?
  
 Regards.


----------



## coinmaster

Before I order a bunch of custom naked z-foil resistors can anyone confirm that it would be okay to replace the resistors throughout the amp with them?


----------



## Redge78

*Z-Foils ...*_ (based on the MK8se)_
  
 - No need to put Z-foil on the PSU area, or around the "signal control".
 - Probably not very useful around the "gain switches" area either.
 - Z-foils should not handle enough power to be in the Power Anode resistor position. Paralleled 2W Tantalum could be an option (Shinkoh, Riken, Audio Note, ...).
 - No need to have Z-foil on the Power Cathode, as it will be bypassed by the paralleled capacitor (better work on upgrading this capacitor ...)
 => Good on Anode/cathode driver tubes
 => Very good on the serie resistor just after the coupling cap
  
  
*Coupling Caps*
  
 "Duelund CAST Cu" are the absolute end game caps. You don't want to mix them with anything else ... that will automatically be far inferior (and I am thinking Mundorf here).
_Think $5000 "Cheval Blanc" and Diet Coke ... _





  
 My feeling is that putting Duelund in an amp should be considered mostly when all other parts of the amp have been already seriously optimised. Otherwise, you may not be able to take advantage of what's best in those caps.
 And those Duelund things are quite large, not sure they will fit in your MK6 ... and even so, you'll have to check how they react to heat, those Paper PIO may not want more than 70°C ...
  
  
 As I am also thinking of changing the coupling caps in my MK8, I can give you the findings of a poor man :
  
 - Jupiter Copper Foil/wax : the only one in the Duelund league, at a (small) fraction of the price. My favorite guess so far.
 - Audio Note Copper Mylar : (Mundorf S/G/O league) more natural, less detailed
 - Audyn True copper : (Mundorf S/G/O league) cheap even in larger values (0,68uF), warmer, more bass , less treble. I kind of like what those caps could do to my HD800 ...
 - Jensen copper foil copper case : (Mundorf S/G/O league)


----------



## coinmaster

redge78 said:


> *Z-Foils ...* _(based on the MK8se)_
> 
> - No need to put Z-foil on the PSU area, or around the "signal control".
> - Probably not very useful around the "gain switches" area either.
> ...



If only I knew which resistor was which, I need a picture diagram.

You mentioned the power Anode resistors are too much for z-foils and that 2W Tantalum resistors in parallel would handle it. 2 in parallel would make 1w and z-foils can be custom made for higher than that. Any particular reason not to use them?

As for the caps, I'll probably use an external capacitor bank. The other "optimizations" you spoke of are mainly the resistors right?

Also what are your opinions on duelund cast resistors? They are even more expensive than z-foils. A lot more.


----------



## Redge78

In the MK8se, the Anode resistors for power tubes are rated at 3W and 3.25W (Dale CW-2C 3.25W / Dale RW69 3W 5%), but it may be different in the MK6, you'll have to check. 
 So, the 2*2W with Tantalum are OK.
 THe only Z-foil I have seen were 0.4W so you would have needed 7 resistors at each spot ... but if there is higher power Z-foil, it may be OK.
  
 Maxx is the king of the tech pics (with lots of comments on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). I'm sure he'll be pleased to help here. The only minor possible problem is that his amp is so full of extra-large caps, you may not see the resistors underneath !
  
 Capacitor bank : this is what I have done, a 6 inches tall box under the amp.
  
_Also what are your opinions on duelund cast resistors?_
 The exact same opinion than in my previous post ...
 "..."Duelund CAST Cu" are the absolute end game caps. You don't want to mix them with anything else ... that will automatically be far inferior (and I am thinking Mundorf here)...".
 For the MK6/MK8, it may be a triffle overkill, this is more the kind of stuff in the "5 figure" equipments ...
  
 If you still have the original (crappy) SCR coupling caps, any cap I listed above will be a giant step forward.
 And if money is tigh, you can go for Russian caps too, they are cheap and extremely efficient ... I tested the K75-10 (wonderful mids) and I have now some K73-16 playing and they definitively sound good. Unbeatable Q/P. And you can play with small styrene/teflon caps as bypasses (FT-1 / K71 / ...) to custom your sound. It's even more addictive than tube-rolling !
  
 As for the "optimizations" ... no, I am not talking of resistors (that Maxx did and I didn't) ... no spoilers, Maxx will communicate.
 Ask him nicely


----------



## coinmaster

redge78 said:


> [COLOR=008000]_Also what are your opinions on duelund cast resistors?_[/COLOR]
> The exact same opinion than in my previous post ...
> "..."Duelund CAST Cu" are the absolute end game caps. You don't want to mix them with anything else ... that will automatically be far inferior (and I am thinking Mundorf here)...".
> For the MK6/MK8, it may be a triffle overkill, this is more the kind of stuff in the "5 figure" equipments ...



No I was talking about duelund cast "resistors". http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_duelund_cast.html
Reviews claim they are "the best" with no sound of their own. They are kind of huge though. I haven't been able to find any z-foil vs duelund resistor reviews either.


----------



## Redge78

Oh ! Duelund resistors ...
 Seems to be dedicated to speaker filters (RC filters I guess), not much "amp convenient" values available.
 And they are bloody HUGE ! as huge as the price ...
  
 And not even sure they are insulated ...
  
 I personnaly would not go that way.


----------



## coinmaster

K Maxx is helping me out, thanks.
For those who are interested the upgrade guide is in progress and should be posted this month.
Also Redge78, Maxx speaks highly of you and appreciates your help


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Also Redge78, Maxx speaks highly of you and appreciates your help


 
 He shouldn't. Because of me he has spent a significant amount of money on german caps (even though still less than in jewelry and other decoration ... with questionable impact on sound ... the jewelry I mean, not the caps)  
  
 Joke aside ... yeah, Maxx and I have been working for months on those mods, exchanging ideas and experiment results on a daily basis, building in the process a real friendship.


----------



## Maxx134

Hello all I been away for a bit distracted with the music..
The Little Dot is a real killer once modded to its true potential..
you just kind of get lost reorganising your source files.
Having a yggy helps though! 

Its nice to see thread awaken again.





mogos said:


> Maxx134 I have a request. Can you make a list of wire gauges (with approximate summary length) needed for Little Dot VI.
> To order some with special technologies inside takes time and I would like to avoid dissassembly of the amp for several times to minimise the probability of "accident".
> Do you know approximately when will start the thread on ultimate mod of Little Dot?
> 
> Regards.




As for cable replacement, you only need about 12 feet of same cable for the recabling...

I researched in Chinese threads, "Sword-yang" himself made an all out version of the MK8:
Sword -yang posted, quote:
"MK8SE first edition of the original model is MK800SE" :


Which he did some upgrades, most notable was the cathode resistor paralleled blue cap, 
which he had replaced with a cap that looked like a Mundorf, (which is what I am using), 
Also better quality silver solder, 
And the recomended the usage of silver cable, specifically :
Sword-yang Quote:
"...upgrade within the signal line,
into Teflon silver plated wire."
This is same exact recomendation of a top tube designer Ridge78 is in comunication with(!)


So after some search I have found a great susbtitution:


Some specs:

3 conductor, 20awg, teflon coated, silver plate...
Thats ideal for this amp as stated by the designer.


I have tested and found this wire to be a quite excellent sound upgrade for our amp..

There is a fairly large improvement in upgrading the existing cable, because since these amps have been intendid to be affordable, so they have hidden compromises, 
but only noticable when looking to build them back up to a top tier status...


There is even more (alot) that can be done to give your amp astonishing impact, clarity, and TRUE balllzz(!) thanks Ridge78 immense reasearch these past months and his access to famous tube designer friend.
(Another give-away).

I like to point out our intention is only to unlock and unleash the amps true "theoretical" potential, by complimenting and adding what we feel the amp could benifit from..
And not to alter it in any way as to upset the designer of this wonderful design.


That being said, I did "personalize" its looks

Here is an outside only bling pic, which is not how it looks anymore but the real important changes are all inside the amp.


Maybe we should start the thread soon so I can answer questions there as I like to give details soon..


----------



## Redge78

Wires I have been using : *Alpha Wire 5855/7*
  
 Not too expensive, they do the job


----------



## SonicTrance

Has anyone here used the Mullard ECC32's in there mk6 for longer periods of time? I'd like to try it but I don't know if the amp can handle the 0,95A current draw. It's very hard to get an answer from LD as well.


----------



## Maxx134

Do a search for that in the Chinese threads where sword-yan respondeds himself:
http://www.erji.net/simple/index.php?f151.html

I tried to sign up, but difficult as it is Chinese....


----------



## Mogos

Maxx
  
 12 feet of same cable, in size 20 AWG? (as I heve concluded from your searched cable  )


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> Do a search for that in the Chinese threads where sword-yan respondeds himself:
> http://www.erji.net/simple/index.php?f151.html
> 
> I tried to sign up, but difficult as it is Chinese....


 
 I couldn't sign up either...


----------



## Maxx134

mogos said:


> Maxx
> 
> 12 feet of same cable, in size 20 AWG? (as I heve concluded from your searched cable  )



Sorry I didn't see your post..
Correct.
Make sure it is 3 conductor(in one teflon cable), not 4, 2 or one conductor, unless you like to have a mess of wire.

20awg is very slightly larger than ideal and works well..
22awg is slightly smaller than ideal, and works well also.
The longest run is about 2feet along side of unit, but there are 4 runs:

2 for the input,
And 2 for the output run.

Then there is the wire run from the board, to the rear connectors...
These wires are actually the weakest link as they are the thinnest in the amp.

These 4 four single wires from each of the four power tubes.

I used NorneAudio
High purity OCC Cu 22awg. (Doubled & twisted & re-routed away from AC heater wires),
But it was not easy to run,
So I suggest using the extra sivler plated wire by stripping outer teflon jacket and using inner wires which are individually insulated and are easier to mold/shape into place.

The Norne cable was a pain in the @$$, being just too springy to keep in any place without use of hotglue..


Edit: 
There is also the short run for the single ended comnectors.


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> While i'm preparing to add the duelund caps is there any definitive guide on what goes where and resistors of choice for the resistor upgrades on the mkvi+? I don't want to mess up my amp.
> 
> It seems that z-foil "naked" resistors are the best resistors out there.
> Can one not just use z-foil resistors throughout the entire amp and just connect them in parallel/series to get the desired ratings?
> They also have "multi-chip" versions you can order for no additional charge to custom power/ohm ratings.







coinmaster said:


> Before I order a bunch of custom naked z-foil resistors can anyone confirm that it would be okay to replace the resistors throughout the amp with them?




I dont recommend 1,2,or even 3W resistors in anode/ cathode ends (the main power resistors upgrade stated in this thread).

Unless you want your resistor to look like this:


Or worse yet,
A burnt set of "super-dooper" expensive "custom series zfoils"(!) 

What you see in that pic there, results in change of resistance, 
Which means different anode/cathode voltages per tube...
Which in turn results the tubes performing slightly differently between the tube sets.
So benifits of having a matched pair of tubes diminish(!)

You want longevity & reliability/durability & performance in that area.

I can only recommend the best TYPE of resistor for the specific intendid usage in that particular circuit area of the amp...
So what that "area" call for, is a "power resistor"..
Although you still have many choices among "power resistors", 
I still would only put the most optimal for that purpose.

The best I have found is the *MILLS (non-inductive) wirewound*...

I have literally seen that resistor heat up to melting point and smoke, then recover without any visual signs and still remain withing 1% tolerance!
Nothing beats this particular type, for it intendid use within our amp...

Also of note, is that some of the large blue stock resistors change value(!)
Even when they look good!:

Look again!:



So you see, I am not convinced that these stock are true metal films... as they deviated from the rating.
The changed values probably stemmed from those TYPES not being optimal for the curcuit.

Another reason why you need the specific TYPE of resistor for the job.
These blue resistors not optimall for their placement.
Maybe twice the wattage would have been optimal..
If you notice, the newer units do have doubled resistors in power supply..


This is just an example of cost cutting, but dont be alarmed as all manufacturers do same thing.
I have seen cheapo resistors and caps in some other TOP tube amps as well..

My point is to not alarm, but to show how there are many types of resistors and caps, so we need to choose wisely..

So to me, the intended goal of the zfoil resistors, is for optimal clarity.
We need this attribute, mostly in the signal path.

For clarity = zfoils
For accuracy = metal film/metal foil
For general purpose = carbon types
For high impulse power & linearity = wirewound

Sorry for long post.


----------



## Mogos

Maxx134, can you prepare a list of modification parts with some short comments about possible deviation of parameters (eg. I have seen different capacitors 0.68 instead of 0.22). I know that you will start a new thread but it will be very welcomed to have this information to order the parts and be ready when you will start describtion of the modification process in detail.


----------



## Maxx134

For coupling caps some members in other forums stated that David says little difference.
In email to me he suggests same, with comment about "diminishing returns".

This is furthest from the truth.

The single largest sonic upgrade of the amp,will be your coupling caps, and one of the best "value" for your money would be the russian caps, which Ridge78 has tried & has experience with...

.22uf is a theoretically optimal value, but in real life we see, nothing actually works exactly as "theoretically" designed.
As example, all coupling caps having their own sonic traits/limitations..

Anyways, I would never recomend .22uf, or even .33uf, because the idea of upgrading, for me, 
Is to achieve the highest possible improvement for that specific area. (Edit: Within space & cost limitations)

For MK8, I went with .47uf, with .68uf most likely overkill..
For MK6, .68uf would be more realistically ideal,
With 1uf most likely overkill.

Those are my own assuptions and no one elses.
But we will see, even voltage rating is of a important concern, in a "simple" coupling cap, as performance will be affected by it.

These areas of capacitor characteristics & modding implementation into the board, was member Ridge78 area of concentration. 
(Type of cap, different implementations, and values)

So the thread will have usefull good info once done.


----------



## Maxx134

Here two links for caps to read up on:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/CAPACITORS.html


----------



## coinmaster

After I finish upgrading my MKVI+ I'm thinking of using it as a preamp for a Line Magnetic 219ia speaker amp which is supposed to be one of the best bang for buck speaker amps in existence http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/line-magnetic-219ia-integrated-tube-amp-review-300b-and-845-tube-magic/
Getting some MartinLogan Montis electrostatic speakers and an electrostatic headphone converter for stax headphones.

Does anyone know how well the MKVI+ performs as a preamp?


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> After I finish upgrading my MKVI+ I'm thinking of using it as a preamp for a Line Magnetic 219ia speaker amp which is supposed to be one of the best bang for buck speaker amps in existence http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/line-magnetic-219ia-integrated-tube-amp-review-300b-and-845-tube-magic/
> Getting some MartinLogan Montis electrostatic speakers and an electrostatic headphone converter for stax headphones.
> 
> Does anyone know how well the MKVI+ performs as a preamp?


 
 Hi,
  
 I don't get it. Why would you need an external pre ? The LM219 is an integrated amplifier, so the pre is already built-in.
  
 And driving some "Recommended amplification: 20–500Wpc. " Martin Logans may need more than the 24w max than the LM is provided.
 Those electrostatic speakers are notorious bitches to drive.


----------



## baronbeehive

I agree with Redge78, if you had a SS amp then you might introduce a slight tubeyness to the mix which is what I did when I had a NuForce Icon and it was very pleasant but with a tube integrated it wouldn't be worth it. I have a lowly 3.5 watt miniwatt speaker amp and I can assure you it doesn't need a pre, the sound is as full as you would like it, somewhat surprisingly it doesn't even need a subwoofer - unless you're into megabass.
  
 Also a 300B amp has specific characteristics which you might ruin by mixing the tube types.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Since you will have the Line Magnetic and the Little Dot, you can certainly try the combo together with the Line Magnetic as a preamp. But I'm not sure what benefit you will get. I was not as impressed with it as a preamp as I was with using it as a headphone amp. 
  
 I also agree that I'd worry about using the Line Magnetic with such demanding speakers. Are you able to audition that combo?


----------



## coinmaster

The line magnetic 219ia has the option to bypass the integrated preamp because they said it is its weak point and using a dedicated preamp gives a huge boost to performance.
I figure if I don't like the mkvi+ as a preamp then I can just use the integrated.
As for the speakers, the 219ia is within recommended specs is it not?


----------



## Roscoeiii

[VIDEO]r[/VIDEO]





coinmaster said:


> The line magnetic 219ia has the option to bypass the integrated preamp because they said it is its weak point and using a dedicated preamp gives a huge boost to performance.
> I figure if I don't like the mkvi+ as a preamp then I can just use the integrated.
> As for the speakers, the 219ia is within recommended specs is it not?





But just barely within specs and it is much more common to see speakers like that with more high power amplification. Have a chance to audition the combo?

At the low end of the recommended amp range you may be straining the amp, and that end of the range may be best suited for small rooms, low volumes, etc. Some speakers are known to "like power". 

If you can't audition, try checking with owners of these speakers on forums about whether they've used such low power amplification and with what results.


----------



## baronbeehive

One wonders with such a quality amp how it could be improved by a pre. Regarding the power issue, my system shouldn't work but it does, and in a large room at high volumes so the only answer is to try it if you can. Redge78 is right about electrostatic speakers however.


----------



## Redge78

When they think about "quality external preamplifier", I'm pretty sure they were thinking of something like that !

 You're playing with the big boys now ! No fiddling allowed !


----------



## Redge78

and the "best" tube amp I have heard so far is the Air Tight ATM 2 (output : 80W/pc) which was driving some Wilson Sasha (and the AR pre above).
 It has been replaced by a couple of monoblock of 845's that in my sense are more analytic but far less musical.
  
 And you realise that running your LM amp at 75%/100% will have an serious impact on the life expectency of your tubes ... and a set of (quality) 300b/845 is not cheap.
  
  
  
 My (not even) 2pc


----------



## coinmaster

Hey are you dissing an upgraded mkvi+?  with duelund caps no less! The little Dot mk6/9 are to headphones what the LM 219ia is to amps, really good bang for buck.

The reviews I've read on the 219ia seems to indicate that because of the ridiculously massive transformers it has enough juice to power power hungry speakers loudly even on lower volumes regardless of the fact it is only 24w. I've read at least 3 reviews that said the amp would power anything easily.
I'm not too worried. 
However I think Line Magnetic is the speaker equivalent of little dot so I'm kind of set on the amp more than the speakers.
I'm mainly curious as to how the MK6 performs as a preamp.


----------



## Maxx134

Another good cap read:

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3763


----------



## baronbeehive

coinmaster said:


> Hey are you dissing an upgraded mkvi+?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't forget that review you quoted said that a possible flaw in integrateds was that the pre's might be a weak point, but he didn't think it would be with the 219a. Regarding the LD as a pre I still don't see how a piece of kit a tenth of the price of the integrated can add anything. Going by my experience with the Eximus DP1 DAC/PRE, which had glowing reviews, including use as a pre, it didn't add anything despite my amp being pretty basic - maybe this was the problem, but the amp is highly regarded. Also by my experience with the power output, low wattage amps can perform way above their theoretical potential, as is probably the case with the 219a.
  
 Here is an interesting article on whether pre's are necessary, he thinks yes, I have to be convinced though, maybe I just haven't heard anything at that high a price point....... true!
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/12/is-a-pre-amplifier-still-relevant-to-digital-audiophiles/


----------



## SonicTrance

I haven't tried it myself but some users in this thread have reported the same hum problem that the SE headphone out has, when using the LD as a pre.


----------



## coinmaster

Here's a review on the impact of some preamps on the 219ia
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/preamp-shootout-line-magnetic-melody-audio-rogue-audio.427664/

Assuming I do use the mkvi as a preamp, considering that the 219ia is single ended I'll have to go xlr to rca cables. Would I still get the "balanced" sound through the output or SE sound because they are like night and day.


----------



## baronbeehive

Wow...... a cool $15,000 or so for the combined rig, I'm averting my gaze now before my wallet sustains injury......
  
 Yes you cannot get a balanced signal out of RCA's, you will lose the 2 halves of each channel and just get one for each channel, that is why you need XLR's. That raises another point, one shouldn't assume that the SE signal of the LM amp is inferior, there is quite a lot about this in other threads, the upshot of which is that what balanced, and SE try to do is to get the best and purist possible signal out the the amp. Balanced is one attempt to do this by combining 2 halves of the signal to try to control the way the headphone or speaker drivers respond to pushing and pulling, or peaks and troughs as the signal is carried. However to date as far as I can tell there is no definative criteria that balanced produces with regard to the signal processing that SE doesn't, for example balanced does not give superior control of headphone drivers. Therefore there will be no difference in signal purity of a top end balanced system or a top end SE system. This holds true until someone produces definative proof that balanced produces something that SE does not when all other variables are controlled for.
  
 So if the LD sounds better in balanced mode, then it must be due to some other variable, for example impedance, noise reduction, augmented volume, different circuity in the balanced system etc., other than just being balanced per se. I suggest if you are interested in this you might like to follow this up in the many "balanced" threads.


----------



## coinmaster

Well the balanced end of the mkvi sounds like an entirely different amp, no questions there. I've been told it is because of the way the amp was designed. 
I was actually considering returning the amp and dac I have until I discovered the balanced end because it didn't sound much better than the o2+odac until I went balanced which then blew me away.

And that's another thing, I've been hiking the continental divide for the last 2 months and ever since week 2 I've had this drooling need to listen to my headphone system. It's all I think about.
I thought the term "headphone addict" was a joke!
Noone warned me about this!


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Well the balanced end of the mkvi sounds like an entirely different amp, no questions there. I've been told it is because of the way the amp was designed.
> I was actually considering returning the amp and dac I have until I discovered the balanced end because it didn't sound much better than the o2+odac until I went balanced which then blew me away.
> 
> And that's another thing, I've been hiking the continental divide for the last 2 months and ever since week 2 I've had this drooling need to listen to my headphone system. It's all I think about.
> ...




Yes, according to LD you're only using half the amp in SE mode. Not entirely sure what they mean by that but there's no comparison vs balanced. The mk6 is designed to be used balanced that's for sure


----------



## coinmaster

Which leads back to the question of whether the preamp output delivers "balanced" sound or SE sound since it should be connected to the balanced circuitry even though I'll be using a single ended cable.


----------



## baronbeehive

The preamp output will be balanced but as soon as the signal enters the RCA end of the XLR cable you will be back to SE mode, although that's an interesting point, you are using the balanced circuitry in the amp which is different to the SE circuitry - *inside the amp - *this should be better quality because the LD was designed as a balanced amp. So in theory you will be getting some at least of the benefit of balanced mode, although you will not be using the balanced signal. I believe the SE circuit was an add on for backward compatibility so would be inferior as it was not meant to be used this way.
  
 SE uses half the amp because as a balanced amp it is actually 2 amps in one linked up internally.
  
 Good luck with the hiking by the way, that takes me back to my hitching days to Morocco and Egypt years ago - prior to headphones fortunately!


----------



## SonicTrance

I'm actually on vacation myself. I'll be home late tonight though and can't wait to listen to my headphones, lol

I've been collecting a few different sets of brittish tubes lately and thinking about doing a comparison if any of you are interested? The different tubes are ECC35's, ECC33's and ECC32's. If you're interested I'll post my impressions in this thread


----------



## baronbeehive

Please do, Maxx134 suggested this a while back and I started the ball rolling with some of the tubes I had in the past. I don't know if you want to follow the convention I started regarding the ratings of 1+ to 5- for each tube but it gives a rough standard to stick to which we could then compare at a glance between members. Obviously a rating of 1 would indicate a favourite but leaving room for 1+ for the out and out best ever and so on, with 3 being pretty average and leaving room for the worst of the worst at 5-. Should be especially interesting in view of the tube types you mention.


----------



## Mogos

In one of the posts it was mentioned that Valab stepped attenuator has been used. Can you guys advise me how to pick out a correct pot. Is this one ok (regardless the size .

 It is describded as *4Pole 24 Step DALE Attenuator Volume Pot Stereo Potentiometer 50K*
  
 How many connections will have to have the potentiometer. Can you show a schematic of connections in the balanced setup.


----------



## Maxx134

I read our LD6/8 volume is same one in oppo HA1, 
With an unused motorized pot.
Check the dimensions on that volume, as that is the most important thing.
That volume pic looks like it may be a better pot, but if it doesnt fit, then its no good anyways.



Also:
Both the rear XLR outputs and front XLR headphone out, are being fed the same output from the amp board, no difference.
As stated the single ended will use half the amp, so using a cable adapter will have same result.
You will use half the amp.
This is not taking advantage of the balanced circuitry...


----------



## coinmaster

I'm planning on getting some tungsol 5998 and 6f8g tubes.
Anyone tried this combo? The 5998 is supposed to be similar to the WE 421a and the 6f8g is supposed to be on par with the tungsol 6sn7 round plate.


----------



## john57

The one used in the Oppo HA-1 is a six gang unit.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> I'm planning on getting some tungsol 5998 and 6f8g tubes.
> Anyone tried this combo? The 5998 is supposed to be similar to the WE 421a and the 6f8g is supposed to be on par with the tungsol 6sn7 round plate.




If you read my previous posts that exact combo was no good for me. I get serious hum when using 6f8g/6c8g's together with 5998's. The 5998's are however almost entirely quiet with other drivers. 

After I got my gec a1834's there's no going back for me.


----------



## coinmaster

Perhaps I should just buy some 6sn7 round plates then. How was the sound aside from the hum? (Trying to find your post) 
Those gecs seem to be hard to find.


----------



## Redge78

Hi All,
  
 Potentiometer :
 You'll need to find the full reference of the Alps pot in the LD and check wich Max resistance is used (50K, 100K, ...) and what is the increase logic (proportional or some logarithmic one).
 The picture pot above seems to be a 2 channel one, and you'll absolutely need a 4 channel one, like this one :
  

  
  
 And $36 for an almost 100 DALE resistors pot (plus all the soldering work) seems "not expensive enough".


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Perhaps I should just buy some 6sn7 round plates then. How was the sound aside from the hum? (Trying to find your post)
> Those gecs seem to be hard to find.


 
 I have three different TS RP tubes, the 6SL7, 6F8G and 6C8G, and they sound about the same to me (I'd not hear a difference in a blind test accept for the hum in the later two).
 They all sound very good though and are on the warmer side. They match well with 5998's also because the 5998 gives you a huge sound stage and lots of detail.
  
 Regarding my hum issue..
 Please note that I got this hum using low Z planar headphones (LCD-XC, HE-400i). I've not tried the 5998/6F8G combo with any high Z cans as I don't have any anymore.


----------



## Maxx134

redge78 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Potentiometer :
> You'll need to find the full reference of the Alps pot in the LD and check wich Max resistance is used (50K, 100K, ...) and what is the increase logic (proportional or some logarithmic one).
> ...



Absolutely correct on all points.
I others in past told me the volume was not easy to find a better replacement.
And possible replacements, would be very expensive.

The Oppo uses same brand/type volume.

It is also true as john57 said the oppo is six gang, or channel.
While, also true that Redge78 says our LD is using a 4 gang or channel...

I have compared them:
Notice the number I circled in red (X4 vs X6):


Little Dot: 


And 


Oppo HA1:


At least we know the volume is not a cheapo one.


There was a time when I was going to keep my oppo and run a cable out from its motorized pot to the Little dot, so they would both move to the oppo remote..
Then I came to my senses


----------



## Mogos

Do you have a datasheet for the 434M-100KX4. I have found some info about that one shown below. Is it the same from the point of connections?


----------



## SonicTrance

Here's my comparison of my little British collection of ECC35/33/32's
  
 Let's start with some pics, shall we..
  
*ECC33 tall brown base, grey plates and D getter.*

  
*ECC32 brown base, black plates and D getter.*

  
*ECC35 short brown base, grey plates and D getter.*

  
*ECC35 short black base, black plates. Left tube has D getter, right tube has inverted pan getter (older), they pair well though.*

  
*ECC35 tall black base, grey plates and D getter.*

  
  
 Testing was done using Tidal (flac) – Little Dot Dac_III – Little Dot MKVI+ (modded) with GEC A1834’s as power tubes. Listening through a pair of LCD-XC’s.
 I listened to one pair for five songs, took these notes you see below, then changed tubes and let them warm up a bit and listened to the same five songs again, and so on…
  
*ECC35 short brown base, grey plates:*
 Amazing bass, very detailed and goes deep. Smooth midrange, clear and very detailed highs. Big soundstage and good instrument separation.
  
*ECC32:*
 Good, controlled and detailed bass. Sub-bass is plenty with these (very nice!) Same smooth midrange as above. These tubes are amazingly detailed with a huge soundstage.
  
*ECC33:*
 Bass is very good, detailed and punchy. These also got more sub-bass than the ECC35’s above but not as much as the ECC32’s. Again, smooth midrange without being rolled off. High level of detail and soundstage.
  
*ECC35 short black base, black plates:*
 These sound very similar to the ECC35 brown base ones above. Packs the same bass punch, smooth midrange and detailed highs.
  
*ECC35 tall black base, grey plates:*
 Another fine set of tubes. Though I sense less punch in the bass than the other ECC35’s. Sound signature is still the same though. These are also the only pair that’s not entirely quiet. You can hear a slight noise but only when no music is playing. Not much to complain about really but there you go.
  
 I realize that I’ve written basically the same thing about all pairs. That’s because they all sound very similar. With most difference in bass, were the ECC32/33 has more sub-bass and the ECC35’s got more punch, especially the short base versions. The ECC32 also has that extreme amount of detail in the mids/highs.
  
 I was going to rank these on a scale but they’re all top tubes as far as I’m concerned. Sound signature is neutral throughout, which I like. IMHO I’d be happy with either one of these in my amp and they beat any 6SN7/6SL7/6F8G/6C8G I’ve tried, including the praised TS BGRP.
  
 If I had to choose though I'd pick the ECC32. They're very fun to listen to and I like sub-bass.
  
 Lets finish this with pics of the winning pair in action.


----------



## Mogos

MisterX where did you buy this nice transformer covers.


----------



## greenkiwi

Plus, I think that those ECC32s are the best looking.


----------



## SonicTrance

mogos said:


> MisterX where did you buy this nice transformer covers.


 
 These are the ones I got: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221153948403?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Obviously you'll need to take the board out and drill holes on top of the case to mount them. Also, the little black cover for the regulators wont fit between these as they're a lot wider than original covers. I had to file it down to make it fit. Totally worth it though
  


greenkiwi said:


> Plus, I think that those ECC32s are the best looking.


 
 Good looking indeed and most importantly very good sounding. Just remember that the ECC32's draws 0,95A heater current. That's more than 3 times as much as the tubes this amp was designed for. David from LD states here: http://littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2554&p=7956&hilit=ecc32&sid=e4c76172160b261c8214c2d82a4e0f0f#p7956 that they're OK to use though.


----------



## Maxx134

From a tube design standpoint, it correlates well that you chose the ECC32...
Since it has "black" plates and "D" getter..

Things I learnt to look for in a better quality tube:
1- Black plates (more accurate sound)
2- Triple mica (for stability & no microphonics)
3- "D" getters & square getters (denotes older age, Better quality era)

All these points are generalities...

I have read, in general, the tube quality decline started early in 70s, once transistors came to existance..
Best tubes are oldest you can find, even from 50s.(!)
I haven't looked into it further, so any other points anyone would like to make would be appreciated.


----------



## SonicTrance

maxx134 said:


> From a tube design standpoint, it correlates well that you chose the ECC32...
> Since it has "black" plates and "D" getter..
> 
> Things I learnt to look for in a better quality tube:
> ...


 
 Yeah, those ECC32's I got are made in march/july 1948, so pretty old
 "D" getter can be a sign of older age but not in the case of the ECC35 short black base tube which has the inverted pan getter. From the date code "MM" i read oct 1951 from this: http://frank.yueksel.org/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf
 I got newer ECC35's with "D" getters


----------



## Thenewguy007

Might as well ask here.
  
 Anyone with the VI+ compared it with the WooAudio Wa2 or the Wa22?
 The Wa22 is what this is supposed to compare to directly at less than half the price? Is it really on par?
  
 I'm on a question to narrow down the amp that would pair best with the HD800.
  
 I'm also strongly considering the Violectric V200, since I read so many posts recommend it for the HD800.
  
 Would the VI+ really open up the soundstage, reign in the treble peak & add more bass?


----------



## SonicTrance

thenewguy007 said:


> Might as well ask here.
> 
> Anyone with the VI+ compared it with the WooAudio Wa2 or the Wa22?
> The Wa22 is what this is supposed to compare to directly at less than half the price? Is it really on par?
> ...


 
 I haven't compared the WA22 and the MK6 but, IMO, for the money you can't go wrong with the mk6. If you already have your compatible favorite tubes you can buy it without tubes for $80 less (that's what I did)
  
 I saw in another thread that you also got a pair of LCD-2's. Those will pair wonderfully with the mk6 as it's output power is 1W per channel into 50 ohms, 5W per channel in 120 ohms, so plenty of power. I use my mk6 with low Z planars only.
 The HD800 however would probably pair better with the mk8 as that amp was designed for high Z cans. Though I've read (not tried myself) people say the HD800's and Beyer T1's pair nice with the mk6 also.  
  
 If you don't plan to use the mk6 balanced then buy something else because the sound difference in SE vs balanced is huge with this amp. 
  
  
  
 PS. you can also mod it with better coupling caps and bring the amp to a whole other level


----------



## Roscoeiii

If the HD800 is your priority, then yes I'd go with Mk 8 in the Little Dot line. But haven't personally heard it. Just basic impedance matching.


----------



## SonicTrance

roscoeiii said:


> If the HD800 is your priority, then yes I'd go with Mk 8 in the Little Dot line. But haven't personally heard it. Just basic impedance matching.


 
 So you know the (headphone)-output impedance of the LD's? It isn't specified in the spec sheets.


----------



## Roscoeiii

I'm not sure about the impedance measurements, but LD specifically states that the 8 is designed to work best with high Z headphones, while the 6 was designed for low Z.


----------



## SonicTrance

roscoeiii said:


> I'm not sure about the impedance measurements, but LD specifically states that the 8 is designed to work best with high Z headphones, while the 6 was designed for low Z.


 
 Yes, that I know
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 It'd be interesting to know how much power the mk6 has with a load of 300-600 ohms.


----------



## coinmaster

Personally, if you like the sound of the hd800 and money is not the issue, I see no reason to go for the hd800s anymore. The mhp1000 sound like an hd800 clone except (much) better in every way that's not soundstage (even though they are close), the hd800s sound bad in a direct comparison. 
The mhp1000 really is a "better" hd800 that doesn't have its lack of euphony issues. Too bad mcintosh does like no marketing on them so no one knows they exist.


----------



## Redge78

sonictrance said:


> Yes, that I know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 wild guess considering the "... 5W per channel in 120 ohms ..." and being at Max Voltage at this impedance. 
  
2W /pc in 300 ohms
1W /pc in 600 ohms
  
which should be more than enough for a HD800.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Personally, if you like the sound of the hd800 and money is not the issue, I see no reason to go for the hd800s anymore. The mhp1000 sound like an hd800 clone except (much) better in every way that's not soundstage (even though they are close), the hd800s sound bad in a direct comparison.
> The mhp100 really is a "better" hd800 that doesn't have its lack of euphony issues. Too bad mcintosh does like no marketing on them so no one knows they exist.


----------



## SonicTrance

redge78 said:


> wild guess considering the "... 5W per channel in 120 ohms ..." and being at Max Voltage at this impedance.
> 
> 2W /pc in 300 ohms
> 1W /pc in 600 ohms
> ...


 
 Yeah, that should be more than enough


----------



## coinmaster

redge78 said:


>


mhp1000 not mhp100 lol. Mcintosh sells them for $2000, they came out last year.


----------



## coinmaster

I have a question. The MKVI+ outputs 5w per channel at 120 ohms right? The Woo electrostatic converter says "Speaker amplifier input: >= 3 watts"
 Doesn't that mean the MKVI+ is powerful enough to drive electrostats or am I missing something?
  
 "the WEE is highly efficient, speaker amp output *requirement* is as low as 3 watts"


----------



## Roscoeiii

Don't know the details but my understanding is that electrostats have very specific amp requirements (don't they even use special connectors?).


----------



## coinmaster

Yes that's the point of the Woo electrostatic converter, which requires a speaker amp because they output more power than a headphone amp, except the MKVI+ outputs more than the required watts for the converter. All I'd have to do is make a cable that connects xlr to the speaker terminals on the WEE. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> I have a question. The MKVI+ outputs 5w per channel at 120 ohms right? The Woo electrostatic converter says "Speaker amplifier input: >= 3 watts"
> Doesn't that mean the MKVI+ is powerful enough to drive electrostats or am I missing something?
> 
> "the WEE is highly efficient, speaker amp output *requirement* is as low as 3 watts"


 
 I don't have any definitive answer to that, but I would consider the fact that the "Speaker amps" are designed to power 4/8 ohms loads, not 120/300/600 ohms (that are loads mostly found in the Headphone world).
  
 And with that 4/8ohms loads, the power output of a MK6 should be close to nill ( "...1W per channel into 50 ohm..." and decreasing with the decrease of impedance, I'd say).
  
So better try it before buying it.
  
  
 The Stax SRD-7 is the same as the WEE. You can probably find a cheap used one. Plenty to sell here in Europe.
  
 EDIT :  a STAX SRD-X/Pro may even be better, as it has a RCA input ... or even better a SRM-1/MK2 (just have to replace the Lytics caps ...) ... both have Normal and Pro bias output, which can be handy if you want to try vintage Stax headphones.


----------



## coinmaster

Woo sent me an email saying that it would work but usually headphone amps don't continuously output their rated watts. So I guess it depends on whether the MKVI+ puts out 5w continuous or not if anyone knows the answer to that.


----------



## Roscoeiii

That, I'd ask Little Dot.


----------



## Mogos

No one have datasheet for the 434M-100KX4 potentiometer? I have tried to find something on Alps site and nothing. The closes one looking like the one in LD is RK168. Why there is no information about LD potentiometer on the Alps site? Is it an Alps one or what? The reason for my question is that I will change the potentiometer for balance step one.* I need to know the description of connections on the board. Can somebody help me with that.*


----------



## coinmaster

So I officially ordered 4 Duelund cast capacitors in 1uf totaling $928, more than the amp itself. I'll soon have 4 Tungsol 5998 and 2 Tungsol 6sn7 RP tubes on the way as well. Now I just gotta figure out how to get these 2 stripped screws off of the internal board 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## SonicTrance

mogos said:


> No one have datasheet for the 434M-100KX4 potentiometer? I have tried to find something on Alps site and nothing. The closes one looking like the one in LD is RK168. Why there is no information about LD potentiometer on the Alps site? Is it an Alps one or what? The reason for my question is that I will change the potentiometer for balance step one.[COLOR=333333]* I need to know the description of connections on the board. Can somebody help me with that.*[/COLOR]




I also want to change the pot. I get noise sometimes when changing volume. Please let us know if you find a nice replacement.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> So I officially ordered 4 Duelund cast capacitors in 1uf totaling $928, more than the amp itself. I'll soon have 4 Tungsol 5998 and 2 Tungsol 6sn7 RP tubes on the way as well. Now I just gotta figure out how to get these 2 stripped screws off of the internal board :mad: .




Wow. You're going all out coinmaster 
It's gonna be very interesting to hear your impressions of those caps


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, every review I read about Duelund Cast caps says they make Mundorf S/G/O sound bad in comparison so it only makes sense to invest in them. Thanks to the magic of Paypal Credit I can blow away my money and have 6 months to pay it off no interest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I've spent almost 2 grand today. 
  
 I've still got to throw over $150 worth of resistor replacements using Mills and "naked" z-foils.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Yeah, every review I read about Duelund Cast caps says they make Mundorf S/G/O sound bad in comparison so it only makes sense to invest in them. Thanks to the magic of Paypal Credit I can blow away my money and have 6 months to pay it off no interest :bigsmile_face:
> I've spent almost 2 grand today.
> 
> I've still got to throw over $150 worth of resistor replacements using Mills and "naked" z-foils.




I really hope they sound better than the Mundorf at about four times the cost, lol
Good luck with the mod! It's gonna be interesting to hear your findings.


----------



## SonicTrance

Did you get the silver or copper version of the caps?


----------



## coinmaster

Copper. The silver ones are like a grand a pop or something stupid.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Copper. The silver ones are like a grand a pop or something stupid.




Yeah, I looked at a UK site and they were asking about £380 for the copper (630vdc 1uf) and didn't even list the price for the silver ones. Looks like you got a good deal!


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> Yeah, every review I read about Duelund Cast caps says they make Mundorf S/G/O sound bad in comparison so it only makes sense to invest in them. Thanks to the magic of Paypal Credit I can blow away my money and have 6 months to pay it off no interest :bigsmile_face:
> I've spent almost 2 grand today.
> 
> I've still got to throw over $150 worth of resistor replacements using Mills and "naked" z-foils.



The Deuland Cast are at the top.
The Mundorf is an above average cap, just not at the very best level,
But the new Jupiter copper caps are way up there in Deuland territory and are more afdordable, being about $50 more than the mundorf silver/gold/oil.

Modding is an Expensive game when it comes to caps..


----------



## coinmaster

So after giving my Psvane cv181 TII's another shot and letting them burn in for a few more days I'm surprised at how good they sound. Apparently the psvane T series needs longer than average burn in time, up to 300 hours. At first I thought they had no euphony and the stock ones sounded better but now the sound has improved in every way that it can. Faster, more lush, more attack, more full, more holographic, more dynamic, more realistic, larger soundstage, more intimate, etc.
 So many songs sound like I'm actually there at the concert now. I'd say the overall sound improved 3-4 times over the stock driver tubes. The overall realism increase is mind blowing. I swear sometimes it sounds like the singer is right across the room and I have to look to make sure.
 I officially can see what people talk about when they say how this amp sounds 3-4 times better than it's price.
 My step-dad nearly cried when he heard "Black Hole Sun" from Soundgarden.
 Too bad cuz I just bought a pair of tungsol 6sn7 round plates for $400 which I will be using to replace these soon assuming they are as good as everyone claims.
 Now I just need to replace the power tubes, I'm still using Winged "C" Sovteks.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> So I officially ordered 4 Duelund cast capacitors in 1uf totaling $928, more than the amp itself. I'll soon have 4 Tungsol 5998 and 2 Tungsol 6sn7 RP tubes on the way as well. Now I just gotta figure out how to get these 2 stripped screws off of the internal board
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Jeez ! This is beautiful madness !
  
 We'll definitely need pics.


----------



## Redge78

maxx134 said:


> Modding is an Expensive game when it comes to caps..


 
 Unless you go for Russian Military ones ...


----------



## coinmaster

So like, anyone know how to remove that screw on the left? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As you can see my efforts haven't worked out so well....


----------



## [OverDrive]

Actual values of delivery. Tests carried out by the manufacturer on my request
  
 http://www.ilgazeboaudiofilo.com/t11864-erogazione-little-dot-mk-vi
  
*50ohm 9V RMS* from this data we obtain a supply of *1,62W REAL.*
*120ohm 10V RMS* from this data we obtain a supply of *0,83W REAL*
*300ohm 16V RMS* from this data we obtain a supply of *0,85W REAL*
*600ohm 20V RMS* from this data we obtain a supply of *0,66W REAL*


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> So like, anyone know how to remove that screw on the left? :confused_face(1):
> 
> 
> As you can see my efforts haven't worked out so well....




You need to drill that bad boy out VERY carefully. I can't see that coming out any other way.


----------



## SonicTrance

[overdrive] said:


> Actual values of delivery. Tests carried out by the manufacturer on my request
> 
> http://www.ilgazeboaudiofilo.com/t11864-erogazione-little-dot-mk-vi
> 
> ...




I don't get it. So you're saying the mk6 only puts out 0,83 watts of power into 120 ohms?


----------



## [OverDrive]

exactly


----------



## greenkiwi

You might try cutting a slot with a dremmel tool.

Here are some other tips

http://lifehacker.com/5901738/how-to-remove-screws-with-stripped-heads


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah I tried that, that's why it looks so bad right now lol. My dremmel attachment was too thick. I just tried filling it in with solder and recutting it with the dremmel but apparently solder is too soft to turn with a screwdriver.
 This screw is really in there tight.
  
 I'll have to go to home depot tomorrow and hope one of those screw extractors work.
  
 EDIT: Nevermind, the solder method worked! I filled in the hole with solder and hammered the flat head screwdriver deep into it and turned with all my might. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Now I can't figure out how to remove the knob so I can take the circuit board out


----------



## SonicTrance

[overdrive] said:


> Actual values of delivery. Tests carried out by the manufacturer on my request
> 
> http://www.ilgazeboaudiofilo.com/t11864-erogazione-little-dot-mk-vi
> 
> ...


 
 I've tried to read that thread using google translate but not easy to understand. But you say the manufacturer made those tests, so Little Dot.
 Then why this statement in the specs? "1W per channel into 50 ohms, 5W per channel in 120 ohms"


----------



## [OverDrive]

sonictrance said:


> I've tried to read that thread using google translate but not easy to understand. But you say the manufacturer made those tests, so Little Dot.
> Then why this statement in the specs? "1W per channel into 50 ohms, 5W per channel in 120 ohms"


 
 I do not say, but the producer, after my request.
  
 Link: http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2016&sid=be0b357d2de69d96cf4b9f39320cdaaa
  
 The values shown in the site Little Dot are not RMS values. They are peak values. The real value is when there is a connected load (impedance - ohms).


----------



## SonicTrance

[overdrive] said:


> I do not say, but the producer, after my request.
> 
> Link: http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2016&sid=be0b357d2de69d96cf4b9f39320cdaaa
> 
> The values shown in the site Little Dot are not RMS values. They are peak values. The real value is when there is a connected load (impedance - ohms).


 
 So "1W per channel into 50 ohms" is peak, and the real value into 50 ohms is 1,62W. It doesn't make sense to me, lol.


----------



## [OverDrive]

sonictrance said:


> So "1W per channel into 50 ohms" is peak, and the real value into 50 ohms is 1,62W. It doesn't make sense to me, lol.


 
 Write to the manufacturer for clarification.


----------



## SonicTrance

[overdrive] said:


> Write to the manufacturer for clarification.


 
 No use. IME you don't get very good answers from David. You ask four questions and he answers one. Then you ask two more and he answers zero, lol. 
  
 The amp sounds good nonetheless so I'm not to worried about the numbers. Was just trying to understand them


----------



## [OverDrive]

sonictrance said:


> No use. IME you don't get very good answers from David. You ask four questions and he answers one. Then you ask two more and he answers zero, lol.
> 
> The amp sounds good nonetheless so I'm not to worried about the numbers. Was just trying to understand them


 
 The Little Dot MKVI + is a great amp / pre headset, when you consider the price / performance ratio.
 The weakness is in the Gain. When set to a high level, that is suitable for such difficult AKG K1000 headphones, the sound quality suffers.
 The sound loses sophistication and hardens above all in medium-high range.


----------



## SonicTrance

[overdrive] said:


> The Little Dot MKVI + is a great amp / pre headset, when you consider the price / performance ratio.
> The weakness is in the Gain. When set to a high level, that is suitable for such difficult AKG K1000 headphones, the sound quality suffers.
> The sound loses sophistication and hardens above all in medium-high range.


 
 Good value for sure!
 I've honestly never even tried the high gain setting. Never felt the need as my cans aren't that hard to drive.


----------



## Maxx134

[overdrive] said:


> sonictrance said:
> 
> 
> > No use. IME you don't get very good answers from David. You ask four questions and he answers one. Then you ask two more and he answers zero, lol.
> ...



Since they are 120ohm impedance,
I believe that it is more the trait of those headphones when driven harder, and not really pertaining to the MK6:


You might wanna try a "current driven" amp instead to see if you have better results.

It is coincidental that Ridge78 proposed to me solution for harder to drive planars that we might look into, yet the mk6 should not have any problem with newer planars like, say an Ether or he560.


----------



## [OverDrive]

maxx134 said:


> Since they are 120ohm impedance,
> I believe that it is more the trait of those headphones when driven harder, and not really pertaining to the MK6:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Unfortunately, English is not my language and it is hard to explain.
  
 The AKG K1000 headphones are difficult to drive and to be coupled, that's for sure.
 The data however showed me the producer are related only impedances given by laboratory tests, each headphone is excluded.
 The hardening in the range Medium-high is seen with each headphone Hi-End. Even with the HE500 was present, but not only.
  
 I owned:
 AKG K1000
 HE500 rewired (hardwiring)
 AKG 501
 AKG 240 MKII
 Shure SRH840
 Sennheiser HD650
  
 Valves used 6080WB Bendix / Sylvania VT-229 (6SL7GT) - Full Music 6SL7
 The complete system is signed.


----------



## Maxx134

Very nice list.

I have HD800 with the LD8, but very similar design parameters, yet higher impedance.

I believe future posted mods that I have done to my LD8, can be adopted to the LD6 which I am currently looking into in PMs.
The mods deal with the power as much as the sound, so it should help alot.

Currently still working on my amp sorry mod thread not started yet.


----------



## [OverDrive]

I do not really like the mod. in general.
 I prefer to buy high-end products, but do not listen to headphones.
 Listening through the speakers is natural and it takes little to avre good results.
 I currently use the facility for signature, excluding LD which is for sale, but I can say it is also excellent with pre, using the gain to a minimum.
 I possess Monitors Behringer TRUTH B1031A, then economic, but not in sound.
 Sorry to say, after years of listening through headphones, but the speakers are on another level of listening.


----------



## coinmaster

Speakers are also much much more expensive. My speaker set-up is going to cost me 15 grand when I get around to it.


----------



## Poladise

[overdrive] said:


> The weakness is in the Gain. When set to a high level, that is suitable for such difficult AKG K1000 headphones, the sound quality suffers.
> The sound loses sophistication and hardens above all in medium-high range.


 
  
 Exactly what I hear with high gain too. Doesnt matter which headphones I used. There's heavier bass, but the overall sound quality suffers quite a bit.


----------



## Benny-x

maxx134 said:


> I believe future posted mods that I have done to my LD8, can be adopted to the LD6 which I am currently looking into in PMs.
> The mods deal with the power as much as the sound, so it should help alot.
> 
> Currently still working on my amp sorry mod thread not started yet.


 
 I'm still hanging tight and really looking forward to this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Good luck with it all!


----------



## coinmaster

*My duelund caps ARE IN!!!!*
  
 and I am deeply impressed. I was like _*omgwtf *_when I first put the headphones on. I tried to remain skeptical in case of potential placebo (even though placebo has never really affected me) however there is zero chance that it is placebo, the sound is undeniably different, like big time. These caps require a long long (like 300-500 hour) burn in from what people say but they already sound amazing.
  
 Here it is when it came
  

 They were way bigger than I thought.
  

 Each one feels like it's made of lead. They are WAY heavier than they look.
  
  
  
 Here's the capacitors when I have them soldered, the leads were too big to fit in the holes.
  

  
  
 Only the best quality wire covering

  
  
  
  
  
 Being Duelund caps they clearly deserve only the best casing as well.
  

  
  

  
*Sound:*
  
 The sound separation has gone off the map! like.. here's the sound separation before        
  
                                                     I            I
 and now
  
                        I                                                                          I
 The sounds and instruments have widened out to where they're like, behind me now.
 and the vocals are much more intimate at times, sometimes it's like "dude get out of my ear! I'm not into that!"
 Which is another thing..it sounds SO much more realistic, like omg......there's no words, but only in some respects, the midrange and some of the high frequencies sound muffled, kind of badly, but that's just because these caps have no burn in yet.
 Even with that though, some of the high and high-mids are so sweet and euphonic it makes my head ring. It's like eargasmic candy.
  
 The bass, I have a pair of HD800s known for having sucky bass (and horribly euphony), the bass before was "there" but not really a huge part of the music. The bass now is deep and impactful and sometimes booming. Before it was like "eeeeeehhr" and now it's like "BuurhmmphhruhuhBAM-CHICKA-CHICKA"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It didn't turn the headphones into a pair of basshead headphones but the bass level and quality jumped literally 5-10 fold.
  
 The space and holographic sound is WAAY better than before. Like, not space as in soundstage (well maybe a little) but space as in space between instruments and singers, its so amazing what my headphones can do now. 
 In fact, this is the first time I have ever headbobbed with a stupid grin on my face using the HD800s, the well known king of soullessness. 
 Actually that's not true I did it for a few minutes once I discovered how much better the balanced end on this amp was. But the sound was nothing like this.
  
  
 There's so much more to the sound that has been improved but I'm terrible with words, I'll update as I sort it out.
 The main thing I *don't* like about the sound now is the whole thing, especially the mid range sounds muffled/veiled. Gotta let it burn in I suppose.
 The main thing I *do* like is the sweetness in the mid-high frequencies, It's orgasmic.
 Oh yeah, it should be noted that the volume on the amp seems to be twice as loud now. Before I could max it out and still be fine (barely) but now I will blow my ears out if I go passed 50% volume.
 I'll just leave the thing running until it's 3-500 hour burn in is finished and see what happens.
  
 Wow, I just realized 500 hours is like 20 days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
 More soon!!!
  
 If you think this upgrade is cool, you should see what me Redge and Maxx have cooking up. It makes this look like an appetizer. I'm sworn to secrecy for now


----------



## Maxx134

Congradulations coinmaster..

I knew you would be in for a shock of your life with the sound, but I didnt want to spoil the surprise...

The reasons for your "over the top" improvement level,
is because of the puny little red stock cap used...

Thats really not a good coupling cap for audio.
Especially for the MK6 tubes which can make use of higher coupling capacitance than the mk8.

Also bear in mind, the caps are actually *allowing* the tubes to hand off its great sound potential...

There are also other locations of such sonic potential on this board.


Also need to point out that there is a good reason why these amps are made very cost saving way, 
So buyer can afford it.
I read an old Sword-yang post saying if he was to put all high end parts in amp *"who could afford it?"*

So This is why, he wants to make his amp accessable for the masses, as well as competitive, as there are many amps in China..
I admire him for that.

What he did, with using most cost effective parts is impressive.
Mainly the transformers & volume are the good quality parts not downgraded.


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, the upgrades will end up costing me almost 3 grand once all is said and done.
 Although this person just outbid me at the last second on my tungsol 5998 tubes while I was installing the caps. Now I'm stuck with 2 and I need 4.


----------



## greenkiwi

That is awesome that it made such a difference.  It is making me think seriously about doing a bit of upgrading.
  
@coinmaster do you use a sniping tool for ebay?  It seems like the only way to bid... just place you bid via the tool and it bits with 6 seconds to go.  
  
 Also... when I so those caps, the first thing I thought of were these trailer hitch decorations:


----------



## Maxx134

greenkiwi said:


> That is awesome that it made such a difference.  It is making me think seriously about doing a bit of upgrading.
> *
> @coinmaster
> do you use a sniping tool for ebay?  It seems like the only way to bid... just place you bid via the tool and it bits with 6 seconds to go.*
> ...



Haha! That is literally what is happening here..

Also I use an ebay grabber app set at 5 seconds to place my bid.


----------



## coinmaster

So after getting a nights sleep and letting my brain equalize to the new sound a little bit. Here are my impressions.
  
 The bass is still there, same as before, no change.
  
 The sound is very unrealistic compared to before the upgrade where I was convinced I was in front of the stage, the tonality is off.
 I don't have much experience with dark sounding headphones but it's possible the entire sound signature is just darker now, which I'm completely not used to. In any case that would be bad for vocals and a lot of instruments like piano. There's no doubt the mid range is having "issues" though darker or not.
  
 The entire sound frequency is muddled and veiled, most prominent in the mid and mid-high range.
 Also that "sweetness" I talked about is gone, at least partially. Unless it gets to really high frequencies then it's like "ooo yeah".
 But the highs sound very smooth in general.
  
 While the sound separation blew wide open it seemed to thin out the 3D depth as well. Like stretching out a thick rubber band and making it longer but thinner.
  
 I can only assume this is because it needs burn in. The reviews I've read say they regret buying Duelund until they burn in so we shall see.
  
  
  
 Also there's this one idiot that's bidding against himself by large leaps, jacking up the prices on all the tungsol 5998s. What a scumbag.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> So after getting a nights sleep and letting my brain equalize to the new sound a little bit. Here are my impressions.
> 
> The bass is still there, same as before, no change.
> 
> ...


 
 Congrats on the new caps coinmaster! I'm sure they'll improve a lot with some burnin. Oh btw, you need to build a nice case for those caps, lol


----------



## coinmaster

You got a problem with my case? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually those duelund capacitors are small compared to the other upgrade components I have on the way. I'm going to head to lowes today and build myself a wooden crate for the bottom.
 The amp is going to be 4 time's larger when I'm done.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> You got a problem with my case?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ok, nice! Looking forward to some pics of that


----------



## coinmaster

So I used an equalizer to up  the mid and high frequencies. There can be no doubt that the entire range is darker now, which is the cause of poor tonality and increased bass.
 Hopefully when the caps break in it gets brighter, I'd rather not have to use an equalizer.


----------



## Redge78

Jeeez !
  
 An equalizer for the Duelund !
 That's like having a lunch in a fine 3 stars restaurant, and putting ketchup on every meal !   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Oups, just realised this is what you guys are doing all the time !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Coinmaster, you have to suffer ! Endure and learn the hard way, you have to deserve those caps !
  
  
  
  
_or you can unsolder them, mail them to me, I'll do the hard job for you ! No need to thank me !_


----------



## coinmaster

Quote:


> _or you can unsolder them, mail them to me, I'll do the hard job for you ! No need to thank me !_


 
 Lol, you wish.
  
 Actually there's been an exciting development that I'm sure will be useful to everyone here.
  
 So like, I mixed the powertubes of the Thomson 6080WA and the 'C' winged 6as7g tubes and now the sound is so thick and full!! Also it is no longer dark! The sound is so creamy now as well.

 I now have zero problems with the way it sounds!! It's so much more euphonic!!!!!
 It's like I have the best of both tubes and the faults of neither. They are complimenting each other so well!
  
 The vocals still don't sound completely realistic but it's vast improvement from before.
  
 Soundengineer was onto something when he suggested doing this!!!
  
 This is a *MUST* try for everyone that owns this amp. Like wow. Mixing power tubes should be the new standard for this
 amp.


----------



## SonicTrance

I guess it's ok to mix 6080's and 6AS7G's like you did. Just don't mix 6080/6AS7G's with 5998's as they've different bias.


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, I suspected as much. Which means I need to make sure I can get 2 more of those.
  
 Still, I've never heard the HD800s have such a "full" sound as they do right now! It's reminiscent of my time with the MHP1000s which I consider a superior version of the HD800.  I can only imagine what the MHP1000s would sound like on this!


----------



## SonicTrance

Shameless plug but relevant. I have a 5998 on ebay right now 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-5998-tube-Test-NOS-NEW-/171926033119?hash=item28079712df


----------



## coinmaster

So I switched the tubes around and now the sound is punchier, faster, and more realistic.I now feel like I'm in front of the stage again. But the fullness is gone. If only I could have both!
  
 So it's realism vs euphony. Interesting.
  
 I'm sure once the caps burn in and I finish upgrading I will have both 
  
 Redge told me that my new caps are also letting me hear the limitations of the rest of my components which I will be upgrading.


----------



## Maxx134

Q*uote Coinmaster:
Also it is no longer dark! The sound is so creamy now as well.*

Glad that worked and correlates to your next quote:

*Redge told me that my new caps are also letting me hear the limitations of the rest of my components which I will be upgrading.*

I suspect you are hearing the tubes more than the caps...


----------



## coinmaster

So I unsoldered the duelunds from the board because they were putting immense stress on it. A bunch of the soldering pads actually came off with the solder. I lucked out because the traces are on the other side of the board.
 Lesson learned, don't solder lead weights to a circuit board.
  
 Thanks to a tip from Redge, I used point to point from the motherboard to the caps. For now I just soldered some wires to the board and wrapped them around the caps which are being held inside my new case.

 I spent the last 13 hours working on this thing. It was 8pm last night last time i checked.
 I kept having to solder,unsolder, take everything apart and put it back together several times, etc.
 I kept getting the measurements wrong on one thing or another. Plus this amp is a P.I.T.A to put back together.
  

  
 Much better. Just wait until she's filled up


----------



## Maxx134

I like to mention that *coinmaster* has been the recipient of much abuse over at the DIY community and I will not tolerate that type of abuse here once we start a new thread.

We do not ridicule others,
 all in the excuse of "helping" .
We are not advocating any advanced superiority or have anything to prove.
We simply love music and love the value of our MK8 amps.


So Debates are best left to the "sound science" forums.

Were only interested in Real world results & in better sound.
That is what the bottom line is about. 
Its all about improving our amp.

I brought my MK8 amp at NYmeet a few month ago with only very few mods, and
 Plan to bring to next one, as it had been thru much internal change since then,
 even beyond what was recommended, and I will also point out what is considered excess or not worth updating.

So I am not afraid to show proof of the sonic improvments for any and all doubters..

So I will like to invite all MK6/8 owners to uncover their amps true potential in upcoming thread.
And dont believe the haters..


----------



## SonicTrance

No worries Maxx. We'll make the modding thread a friendly place


----------



## coinmaster

For those that remember, I injured my ear at a concert in January. I couldn't listen to any headphones until August. 
 Then some dude blew a firework in my ear at the end of August and reinjured it,
 I was more or less fine until yesterday where I had an immensely sharp pain in my eardrum and i was gritting my teeth it was so painful.
  
 So once again at the most inconvenient time I can not listen to my headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh yeah and my Tung Sol 6sn7 Round Plates came in today too. Too bad I don't know what they sound like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

  
  
 I get the rest of my upgrade parts in the mail tomorrow, except for those "naked" z-foils which hasn't even been shipped yet even though I have been waiting over a week.
  
 Hopefully I can at least do an impression without it hurting.


----------



## SonicTrance

Sorry to hear about your earpain C
Do you mind telling us what you're upgrading besides the resistors?


----------



## coinmaster

Um, that's up to Redge/Maxx. They want to keep it under wraps until the upgrade thread is released. I'm just the MK6 spokesperson, they are the man with the plan. 
 Let's just say my giant box won't be empty looking for long.


----------



## SonicTrance

Ok, that's fine. I thought you had made all the research on your own


----------



## coinmaster

Nah, I'm copying Redge's design, I'm not an electronics guru. Although I wen't a little more all-out than him with the components, well actually that's not true, we both went crazy in our own way, not counting the Duelunds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maxx's design is more conservative and pretty, he managed to keep his components inside the stock chassis, same design just smaller components.


----------



## SonicTrance

> *Maxx's design is more conservative and pretty, he managed to keep his components inside the stock chassis.*




Yeah, this is what I'm shooting for


----------



## Maxx134

Although I placed physical limitations (upon my version),
It was still enough to realize every areas benifits.

For instance My HD800 has a bass impact level on my amp I have not ever heard elswhere (edit: EC2a3 also did it)

I suspect the sonic benifits will be magnified on the larger MK6 tubes,
once all coinmasters planned mods are in.

This is why I wanted an MK6 owner involved.


----------



## coinmaster

Plus I have Duelunds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Makes me wonder if it is even possible to improve better once I'm done with the upgrades.


----------



## Maxx134

Every manufacturer has to come to terms with profit margins so the possibility is that most amps have upgrade potential..

The advantage we have here is a very great design foundation,(being balanced) and low price for such value.


----------



## coinmaster

So in other words, it's going to be like a $5k-10k retail amp when it's done. Considering the normal profit margins of headfi equipment.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> So in other words, it's going to be like a $5k-10k retail amp when it's done. Considering the normal profit margins of headfi equipment.


 
 No, it's not. A proper industrial process would try to maximise the "Quality / Price" ratio.
 And at that, those boutique caps are not optimum, even if their "quality" alone are stellar.


----------



## coinmaster

Not sure I understand. How are they not optimum?
  
 If Woo made an amp with the best quality components that made it the size of a speaker amp surely it would sell for at least 5k.
  
 $3000 worth of upgrade components into an amp that probably costs $500 stock to make. Putting it at $3500 not counting any potential bulk discounts and the fact those default components wouldn't be there to begin with. So lets say $2800 for giggles, from what I've seen , people in the audio industry like to double, triple, or even quadruple the manufacturing price for retail. Except for china, they thrive on slim profit margins it seems. Which Is why I'm using a Little dot amp and an Audio-GD dac. Chi-Fi FTW


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Not sure I understand. How are they not optimum?
> 
> If Woo made an amp with the best quality components that made it the size of a speaker amp surely it would sell for at least 5k.
> 
> $3000 worth of upgrade components into an amp that probably costs $500 stock to make. Putting it at $3500 not counting any potential bulk discounts and the fact those default components wouldn't be there to begin with. So lets say $2800 for giggles, from what I've seen , people in the audio industry like to double, triple, or even quadruple the manufacturing price for retail. Except for china, they thrive on slim profit margins it seems. Which Is why I'm using a Little dot amp and an Audio-GD dac. Chi-Fi FTW


 
 The quality is optimum, the Q/P is not. But that's not a surprise, it's quite common to pay 10 times more the last 10% performance.
  
 Now, as an industrial engineer having to spend $1000 to improve an amp, do I choose the Duelund option or do I choose some $200 Copper foil Jensen/Jupiter/Audyn ... and use the remaining $800 to improve the wiring AND the heating system AND the resistors AND the regulated PSU AND the styroflex bypasses etc ... ???
  
 And for your information, the $5K is not sexy anymore ... think $10K and more => Ex :Viva Egoista "845" monster :
http://vivaaudio.com/


----------



## Thenewguy007

Anyone tried the Sennheiser HD800, Beyer T1, or Hifiman HE-6 with the VI or VIII & *also* had an America or European high end tube amps to compare it to?
  
 Like Eddie Current, Woo Audio, Donald North Audio , Decware, Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold amps etc..?


----------



## Redge78

thenewguy007 said:


> Anyone tried the Sennheiser HD800, Beyer T1, or Hifiman HE-6 with the VI or VIII & *also* had an America or European high end tube amps to compare it to?
> 
> Like Eddie Current, Woo Audio, Donald North Audio , Decware, Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold amps etc..?


 
 Maxx is your man. You can MP him, I suppose.


----------



## coinmaster

thenewguy007 said:


> Anyone tried the Sennheiser HD800, Beyer T1, or Hifiman HE-6 with the VI or VIII & *also* had an America or European high end tube amps to compare it to?
> 
> Like Eddie Current, Woo Audio, Donald North Audio , Decware, Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold amps etc..?


 
 I compared it to the magical amp in my mind that transports me to the 7th dimension of greatness with unicorns and rainbows that I always expect to hear when I try a new high end amp.
 I did it with the HD800s.
 Unfortunately the MKVI+ is rather low-fi in comparison 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Let's see what happens when I finish with my upgrades. You guys should see the size of the components I ordered!
 Look forward to the upcoming Mod thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 But really, I've listened to quite a few $5000-$10000 amps with the HD800s and none of them sounded near as good as the MKVI+. I will say that those amps were either solid state or hybrid though, not pure tube.


----------



## coinmaster

Can someone confirm this for me?
  
   




> coinmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Question. My amp uses 2 power tubes per channel. I enjoy mixing power tubes because I get the sonic benefits of both tubes.
> ...


 
  So I won't break my tubes or my amp by mixing 5998 with 6080/6as7?


----------



## Maxx134

*Quote:
..unicorns and rainbows..
*

Lol ,
Never experienced unicorns or rainbows but I did have small angels come down and sit on my amp...
And Everyone will see them once I am done...


----------



## tll

Help..

After upgrading the 330ohm resistors, 0.22uF capacitors and all the power supply related electrolytic caps, I have no sound coming out but buzzing.

The two meters' reading are normal.

I am now in the process of diagnosing the problems. Can anyone help to measure the power and driver tube plat voltages so I could isolated the problem.

The following are the readings I got with my faulty amp, measure on the tube socket without tube

Driver tube #pin number
#2 227V
#3 0V
#5 228V
#6 0V

filament voltage normal

Power tube #pin number
#1 -29V
#2 110V
#4 -125V
#6 -132V


thanks


----------



## coinmaster

tll said:


> Help..
> 
> After upgrading the 330ohm resistors, 0.22uF capacitors and all the power supply related electrolytic caps


 
 Um.. you replaced them all? Like, all of them? With what?
  
 For anyone considering upgrading their amp I suggest waiting until the official Little Dot mod thread comes out. So bad things like this don't happen and you don't waste money inefficiently. Maxx and Redge have already figured out everything from every angle.
 For example you don't and aren't really supposed to replace all of the PS caps nor do you need to replace all the .22uf caps.
  
 Make sure there's no wires that were severed anywhere or shorts in the solder.


----------



## Maxx134

tll said:


> Help..
> *snip*
> 
> thanks



I will PM you

Edit:
I too performed an almost total upgrade of power supply and the fact is that it was unnecessary..

So We will show exactly what stage to update and the associated benifit to each stage upgrade.

Currently I was performing more testing because we dont have the schematic which would help greatly
,
 as "discovering" the circuits inner workings, is a pain in the @$$ .. 

Also, I have decided to upgrade my coupling caps yet again, 
As coinmaster cannot be the only one to have all the fun around here...


----------



## Redge78

> I will PM you


 
 Hi Maxx, can you put me in the loop ?
  
 tll, we'll need some more info :
 - a more complete description of each component you replace, and by what, some pictures would be helpful.
 - the voltage readings : what is you reference/ground ? same reading for each tube ? AC or CD reading ?
  
 Maybe some readings from the Power PSU, between the two (E) pins and the middle ground (the 2 pins between the 4 white ceramic resistors), same for the 2 (C) pins.


----------



## tll




----------



## SonicTrance

Looks like you installed 12w resistors instead of 5w for the 330ohm power resistors.


----------



## tll

Yes, they are 12w resistors from Mils


----------



## SonicTrance

tll said:


> Yes, they are 12w resistors from Mils


 
 Spec is 5w. Why did you go with 12w? I'm no electrician but aren't you suppose to follow spec on those power resistors?


----------



## Redge78

> I'm no electrician but aren't you suppose to follow spec on those power resistors?


 
 No, a 2x derating is perfectly allright. 
 Actually, it may even help the heat dissipation (larger contact/convection surface).
  
 And it is far less prone to break from heat stresses.
  
 And those Mills MRA are non-inductive and are far better quality that the usual chinese cr*p.


----------



## coinmaster

maxx134 said:


> Also, I have decided to upgrade my coupling caps yet again,
> As coinmaster cannot be the only one to have all the fun around here...


 
 At this point, I have better everything than both you and Redge lol.
  
  
  
 Also

 While pretty, totally unnecessary. 
 From here on people should wait until the upgrade thread is released. It should only be around a week or so.
 Patience! Do it once and do it right.
  
 In the upgrade thread we will be discussing not only what to upgrade. But also what to change and add as well. It's much better than simply upgrading everything you see.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> At this point, I have better everything than both you and Redge lol.


 
  
 Jeez, this is gratuitous aggression that will not be left unanswered !
  
  
  
 Currently, what you have is some expensive piles of heavy components (or heavy piles of expensive components, your call).
  
 So, when you're done with your extra-design, your wood-plated case, your new cooling systen, your soldering, your extensive testing ... and everything is wqorking ...  maybe we'll talk to you about the "phase 2" upgrades. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 So ... stop posting, start soldering !


----------



## SonicTrance

redge78 said:


> No, a 2x derating is perfectly allright.
> Actually, it may even help the heat dissipation (larger contact/convection surface).
> 
> And it is far less prone to break from heat stresses.
> ...



Ok thats great! I learned something new
I went for the Mills mra also but the 5w version.


----------



## coinmaster

> So ... stop posting, start soldering !


 
 I've literally spent countless hours all day and night working on this thing. I've barely slept in days. The only thing I need now is my Cathode bypass caps which still aren't here yet  It's just a waiting game at this point.
 Believe me, it's driving me mad not being able to do anything to it or even use it. I don't even know if I broke the damn thing!
  


> we'll talk to you about the "phase 2" upgrades.


 
 Oh god...


----------



## Maxx134

Hey, I wake up late and miss all the fun?

I also am assuming "*tll*" problem lies with the control circuit as his driver tube stage has no sound at all before the amp stage kicks in...


----------



## Maxx134

I like to know if the bias meters are on 60 or another position..
Edit:
I have to say, that looks like a beautiful job tho


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, it does look nice.


----------



## Maxx134

He upgraded the driver tube circuit section of power supply with super jumbo caps..
I woul look there for soldering error..

I myself had a bit of solder touch two points and cause shutdown.


----------



## Maxx134

I am assuming this tiny 47uf cap is still installed?

Cant see from your pic:


----------



## tll

I have not touch the small 47uF cap, yes it is there.
Here are my part list got replaced in my LD6+

Power supply section
2x EPCOS 100uF 450V capacitors (smoothing caps dor the two driver tubes, replaced the 100uF 450V Rubycon KXW)
2 x Kendeil 330uF 400V (replaced the 330uF 250V Nippon Chemicon KMH)
4x Vishay BC 1000UF 250V (replaced the 1000uF 220V Nichicon GG)
4x Vishay 100R 10W resistor (replaced the white 100R 5W)

The reasons for replacing the above caps are
1. Aus is 240V, sometimes it goes high up to 260V in my suburb
2. A concern of fake chinese cap used in the LD 

Since I have replaced the PS caps, I may done wrong, that's why asking to confirm the plate voltages to the driver and power tubes. If the problems are not from the PS section, I could focus on the signal path.

If the voltage supply to the tubes are right, could I assume the autobias sections are working fine?

Loading resistors
8x Mills MRS12W 330R (why 12W but not the 7W, I was told that the Mills are over rated their spec, not sure here, just for a piece of mind)

Interstage capacitors
4x 0.68uF 600VDC ClarityCap MR (why not Mundorf? Read good review about the ClarityCap MR, concern the brightness of the silver oil type, over my budget for the silver/gold oil type)

The two meters work as it were, the left one lighted up, after three minutes, the right one kicked in, togehter with the left meter, current display as normal, 80mA or 80mV.

The problem I have now (after finding that there was a disjoint on the MB between the 0.68uF and the driver tube, that's why I have soldered two little yellow wires in between), the right meter kick in but not light up (no 12V supply to the bulb?), the hissing and noise all gone but absolute silent. Some grounding issue? Or the output protection circuity is not working?

Need more time, but at least I could focus on the signal path now.

If anyone has a sketch of the circuit, it would be very helpful. I'm trying to trace the circuit by folllowing the signal path and PS.

Well, how could I damage the MB? the biggest mistake I have made was disconnecting the wires from the PS side to access the back of the MB, and I have little room to do the soldering. For anyone who is planning to replace the loading resistors and interstage capacitors, just desolder the two L/R input cables (next to the volume control pot), and the whole MB could flip out for easy access of the MB, a lesson learnt.


----------



## coinmaster

I never had to desolder any wires to get good access to the back. Just flip it down from the volume nob side and cut the zip ties on the wires. Then lift the board upwards a bit and prop it up on the back xlr outlets. It should fold out nicely.


----------



## Maxx134

I think I found your problem...
Hold on while I post aome pics...


----------



## Maxx134

It is always a wise practice to take "BEFORE: Pics...

More SO important than "after" pics, so as to compare not only the work, but really, 
The WIRING..

 Look at the wiring of your voltage regulators to the board:

Beautiful clean work, no doubt..


Now lets look at another mk6 amp BEFORe it has been altered:

Notice anything?..

Yes, the blue and green wires from BOTH volt regulators in your amp are reversed...

Luckily, the nature of this amp is hard to actually break it..
I actually fixed my amp about THREE times already,
 without having to replace parts...

So I expect normal operation once you fix those wires..

Still cant figure how you broke board trace from your coupling caps..

And I doubt highly that your right meter light not working..

Goodluck!

Edit:
Also side note..
Your board has all quality resistors,
So it was made before the "downgrade" to the cheapo blue resistors..


----------



## Maxx134

redge78 said:


> ...
> And for your information, the $5K is not sexy anymore ... think $10K and more => Ex :Viva Egoista "845" monster :
> http://vivaaudio.com/




Hmmm...

Anybody have one of these, to pit up against mine?
I need a fancy name like that.





coinmaster said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I have decided to upgrade my coupling caps yet again,
> ...



Hey! 
Just a min there! Lol.

U wanna be like me?
U need:
1-20guage $ilver wire (shielded) for input.
2- NorneAudio High purity OCC Cu 22awg, for output.
3-blackgate eletrolytics. 
4-Mills MRA12 in power supply.
5-TWO "IXYS FRED" High performance 600v/22amp rectifier bridge with fast recovery diodes)
6-All SYNERGISTIC RESEARCH fuses, RED SR QUANTUM FUSES.
7- $1300 for 6 best tubes in catagory, for an MK8. 
8- lots & lots of fairy pixie dust...

---- 


You have:
1- all the *redacted* (most important) mods for mod thread.
2- larger components for most optimal gains..

You see you made me spill some beans.


Anyways, its not just "size" that matters...
Its the whole "package"...
Where have I heard that before?


----------



## coinmaster

Lol both you and Redge got mad when I said that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Besides, most of those things you listed either don't or barely make a difference in the sound quality am I right? I'm pretty sure you said those resistors and black gates did nuthin' to the SQ. I have no idea what a "high performance rectifier bridge" is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll take some of that wiring though.
  
 As for tubes. I just bought two mullard 6080s, two tung sol 5998s, two bendix 6080s, and two tung sol 6sn7 round plates. I'ma have a good time with tube mixing fun


----------



## tll

Dear Maxx134

That's excellent found, wish that would fx the problem, will try out tomorrow as I have left my LD at work place.

Big thanks again.


----------



## Maxx134

*Quote: Coinmaster:
...Besides, most of those things you listed either don't or barely make a difference in the sound quality am I right? *

Exactly! 

Thats why Understanding the amp is essential, 
and why it would also be so great if we had the schematic...

Nevertheless, its not brain surgery and so not impossible, thanks to Redge78 for most the ground work and number crunching..

Yet I also told you,
 the re- wiring of stock cable,
 is another considerable gain not to be ignored.

For tubes I could have gotten away with much cheaper solutions at $200 for only a 5% less difference...(!)

Good thing the MK8 doesnt have as many tube rolling options...(!)

Oh, and I didn get mad, 
But it is your fault I am upgrading further, to keep up lol





tll said:


> Dear Maxx134
> 
> That's excellent found, wish that would fx the problem, will try out tomorrow as I have left my LD at work place.
> 
> Big thanks again.




Your welcome and goodluck!


----------



## Redge78

tll said:


> Dear Maxx134
> 
> That's excellent found, wish that would fx the problem, will try out tomorrow as I have left my LD at work place.
> 
> Big thanks again.


 
 Maxx's probably right but you still need to check things. Those LD guys could have just soldered things that way.
 Yhat's good practice anyway.
  
 You have two transistors , is the wiring colors symetrical ? If not, it's a good hint that's a "Maxx problem"
 You also can do the measurements I askes above : from (E)mitter and (C)ollector pins,
 When things are running properly, both sides read the same measures (roughly 135Vdc (C) and 105Vdc for (E)  for the MK8se)


----------



## SonicTrance

I understand it's all good fun but please, please, don't let the modding turn into some e-peen measuring contest. Let's focus on the music


----------



## Maxx134

*Redge78, Quote:
f not, it's a good hint that's a "Maxx problem"*

Yes Redge78,
 I have looked at bottom of pictures,
 which shows the positioning of the wires as well..

So yes he has his wires reversed, 
And yes, voltage measurment is ALSO most important.
Everything is exposed/revieled the voltage measurements..

Redge78 is correct about Little Dot amps using different colors at times,
To I GUESS to whatever they have available.
 I have seen different color wires in MK8 amps,
Which is why I double checked with the positioning of the regulators outputs, as well as the colors..


Hey, wait!
How you know I have a problem with the colors?!
I have a problem with everythning...


Also , when I see a person upgrade with such meticulous detail/scrutiny in being so neat,
It is a dead give away thet the cause is most likely an error or oversight, 
And not an actual part failure.
Yet lets hope nothing broke!


----------



## coinmaster

sonictrance said:


> I understand it's all good fun but please, please, don't let the modding turn into some e-peen measuring contest. Let's focus on the music


 
 Not an epeen contest. Me, Maxx, and Redge are in constant contact with each other in a massive P.M. thread. We're just joking around.


----------



## tll

An update of the fault finding for my LD6+

1. The voltage to all driver tubes are correct
2. The fault did not appear to be related to the wiring of MJ15020/21

I was suspecting that there was something wrong related to the output relay protection circuit. The design of this protection circuit was for the +ve output from the L/R channel only. There was no protection for the -ve output. The -ve output was wired directly from pin#3 to the headphone output socket. The +ve ouput was wired from pin#3, through the protection circuit and then to the headphone output socket. So you could see two fuses only which were next to the relay. 

What does it means? If you are running your headphone in balance mode, your headphone is not protected from current overload. So why not just bypass the protection circuit for better sound?

To test my amp, I used the single end output, which means testing for the +ve signal path only.

Before the second meter kicked in
1. I could hear musics coming out from the single end output (+ve signal), though the volume was very weak, and I could change the volume by using the volume pot
2. This mean the driver stage was working normal, right?
3. I have measured that there were no plate voltages applied to the power tubes yet
4. I also monitored the voltage across the diode behind the relay of the output protection circuit, it iwas 12V

At the moment the second meter kicked in
1. Plate voltages applied to the power tubes as it should be
2. However, musics was cut off at the same time
3. Protection circuit was activated, voltgae across the diode behind the relay drop to 0V from 12V
4. No cut off of the plate voltage applied to the power tubes
5. Voltage drop across 330R were normal, no sign of current overload acrross the 330R

Finding
I could not hear any musics from the single end headphone output because the output protection circuit has been activated. 

What I need for help
1. Please confirm that you could hear the musics before the second meter kick in
2. If you could, measure the voltage across the diode behind the relay before and after the second meter kick in, just to confirm that it should be always stay at 12V 

I will bypass the protection circuit or wired the +ve output directly to headphone output circuit to check if I could hear any musics after the second meter kick in?


----------



## tll

The protection circuit in the middle of the photo, the black objects are housing the fuse and the relay


----------



## Redge78

> I will bypass the protection circuit or wired the +ve output directly to headphone output circuit to check if I could hear any musics after the second meter kick in?


 
 This is a good way to make things worse ! much worse !
  
 The protection circuit kicks in for a good reason. Find it and solve it, that's the way it has to be done.
  
  
 And yes, this is normal to hear some low volume music before the second meter kicks in. The driver tubes are not "temporized".
  
  
 And the monitoring is done on "+ve" and that's OK.
 This is the output that is used when using the SE output, from "+ve" to "ground"
 When "balanced", the current will be the same in "+ve" and "-ve"


----------



## Maxx134

You are not supposed to bypass protection cicuit!
It is activated to protect the power tube stage.
If you remove it would be bad.
 Also the driver tubes not powered by those regulators..
 they are independently powered...
This is why you can hear the driver tube stage is good..
 so as I say your regulators are reversed wired and activating potect circuit.
Your voltages are probably off.


----------



## Maxx134

You need volt measurements from coinmaster who has the mk6 to compare the voltage values and the polarity as well.
So PM him


----------



## Redge78

And we also need the Volt measurements we asked you to do.
 We have to start from somewhere, and since you've be playing with the PSU ...
 And you can add the measurements before the green power resistors.
  
 One other thing to do :
 can you check that you have not one of the wires going to the transistors that is broken or unsoldered ?


----------



## coinmaster

I can get my music quite loud the second I turn the amp on. The only difference is when I do that I hear the driver tubes only. I can still blast music through them though even 1 second after turning the amp on.
  
 I can't help you on the voltage measuring part.


----------



## Maxx134

That is because the driver stage is fed by a separate supply stage than the power stage.

It only lets him know that the problem is in the power tube stage,
since it is playing before the second meter kicks in...


----------



## Maxx134

tll said:


> An update of the fault finding for my LD6+
> 
> 1. The voltage to all driver tubes are correct
> 2. The fault did not appear to be related to the wiring of MJ15020/21



What does this mean?

 Are you assuming that because the driver tubes have correct voltage,
 So you did not bother checking what I told you?

I am fairly certain your voltage regulators havr wiring is reversed..

Look closely at the bottom of both pics.

The voltage regulators have the same positioning and the same wire colors in same pins,

yet at your board,
 you have reversed the blue & green wires...

 did you fix that?


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> I can get my music quite loud the second I turn the amp on. The only difference is when I do that I hear the driver tubes only. I can still blast music through them though even 1 second after turning the amp on.


 
 I always wait for the Power stage to start before any listening, and most of the time I wait 15mn before going "full charge". It's good for the amp (probably) and good for my ears (definitly).
  
 I don't have any clear evidence that it can be harmful not to do so but I assume that if it was alright to listen directly from the Driver tubes ... well ... there will be no need for the Power stage.


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, I don't usually have any music on until the second meter turns on.


----------



## coinmaster

So I've completed my amp upgrades aside from a few quirks here and there.
 It is difficult to describe the sound compared to the stock MKVI+ because anything I can say would never be enough to explain how much better it actually is, the sound is truly in an entirely different league all together now. Simply saying "oh this got better and this got better and it sounds like this and it's so good!" and all that jazz won't cut it. 
 I've heard a few amps in the 5k-10k range, I don't remember which ones. I'm pretty sure mcintosh and moonaudio flagships were among them. All with the same headphones I'm wearing now.
 I've never heard anything that sounds close to as good as the mkvi+ after the upgrades I did.
  
 Instinctively I wana jump out and say how "omg amazing" the amp is and say how "this is the sound I've always been looking for" and all that but I'm restraining myself because words really can't do it justice. 
 I advise everyone to look forward to the upcoming mod thread that should be out within a week or so. It is a true crime to not upgrade this amp when it can sound as good as this, especially given its stock price.  You don't have to go and spend $3000 like I did on parts to get a massive sound increase from this upgrade.


----------



## SonicTrance

I never plug in my headphones until the second meter kicks in and the tubes are warm. Tubes are most prone to failiure at start-up/shutdown, don't want to risk my cans.
  
@coinmaster What are your meter readings when mixing 5998's and 6080's in the same channel?


----------



## coinmaster

Dunno, good question. I forgot to solder back on the meter wires when I put the amp back together, they popped out on me while pulling on the board.. Let me tell you, it was a pure nightmare putting it back together with my upgrades installed!! I have no choice but to take it apart at least once more so I'll have a chance to resolder them anyway.


----------



## Maxx134

*Quote coinmaster:
"Ive never heard anything that sounds close to as good as the mkvi+ after the upgrades I did."
*

Similar experience here, and I have heard alot of tube amps ,

So I am quite pleased to say I am quite satisfied with my MK8..
The clarity & holographic presentation of soundstage continually mesmerizes,
 and reminds me that it is at a top level where there is no more reason to look anywhere else....
(For now..)


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Dunno, good question. I forgot to solder back on the meter wires when I put the amp back together, they popped out on me while pulling on the board.. Let me tell you, it was a pure nightmare putting it back together with my upgrades installed!! I have no choice but to take it apart at least once more so I'll have a chance to resolder them anyway.




Ok, it would be interesting know. 

I unscrewed the meters while I was working on the board


----------



## tll

thanks everyone who have responded to my post.

I was wrong about the protection circuit. I did some research on the part CI237HA and tried to trace out how the protection circuit work by tapping the +ve and -ve signal out directly without passing through the protection circuitry. 

1. Each channel (R/L) has two power tubes.
2. One power tube is a current amp for +ve signal, the other is for -ve signal. 
3. The meter is to monitor the current throwing in the +ve signal power tube, not the -ve signal power tube.
4. The function of the CI237HA is to compare the current in each power tube. 
5. If it detects a difference in current between +ve and -ve power tube, the protection circuit will be activated and the +ve signal path will be opened.
6. If the +ve signal path is opened, there is no current throw into our headphone, no matter it is in balance or single end both, in this way our headphone is protected.
7. We should not bypass the protection circuit.

I have tapped the +ve and -ve signal directly (from pin#3) to my single end earphone, one at a time and monitor the current throw in the power tubes. I can hear musics coming out as normal. That's great finding.

However, I have identified the current in the L channel power tube which is responsible for the -be signal is quite different from the other, and because of that, the protection circuitry is activated.

It seems I have some progress to identify the fault, I can now focus on only one amp section (not 4).


----------



## colliedoggy

I have just bought a mk viii se.
  
 I suspect there may be a minor fault on the circuit which I want to deal with as soon as possible.
  
 It fires up fine and the bias currents on the left and right meters are 56mA and 58mA respectively.
  
 However, after a few hours of use the left meter reading drops significantly. After about five hours I turn it off for five or ten minutes as the left meter is getting too close to zero for my comfort. After a rest, everything fires up fine again with nearly matching meter readings to start with, before the left one gradually drops again over a few hours.
  
 I have swapped all the valves from left to right channel and the behaviour doesn't change.
  
 What is going on here please?
  
 (I am very much looking forward to the mods thread. I'm not going to spend as much as other people here have, but I will definitely be making the most cost effective mods at some point in the future.)
  
 Many thanks!


----------



## SonicTrance

colliedoggy said:


> I have just bought a mk viii se.
> 
> I suspect there may be a minor fault on the circuit which I want to deal with as soon as possible.
> 
> ...




If you just got it I would contact Little Dot. If there's nothing wrong with your tubes the meter readings should stay the same.


----------



## colliedoggy

I bought it secondhand.
  
 The only change I have made was to replace the output sockets with two 3 pin XLR sockets to match my Double Helix balanced cable.


----------



## SonicTrance

Ok. Did the left meter reading fail before you made those changes?


----------



## colliedoggy

I didn't run it for that long before changing the XLR sockets. I just listened for a few minutes single ended. I had to make that change to listen balanced with my cable.


----------



## Maxx134

colliedoggy said:


> I bought it secondhand.
> 
> The only change I have made was to replace the output sockets with two 3 pin XLR sockets to match my Double Helix balanced cable.



Ugg I guess if it was fine before, you need check your soldering work and pin layout.
Hope your neg wire is not soldered to ground...


At first, your symptoms described are like a failing tube..

 So my question is,
 is it the same meter that goes down,
 or the other meter once you swap everything over (all 3) to other side..?


----------



## colliedoggy

The ground pin on the 3 pin  XLR sockets is not connected to anything. The ground wire inside the case is connected only to the case. I am certain it is wired correctly.
  
 Everything is fine for several hours. It is just that after about 5 hours the left needle drops significantly.
  
 I first tried changing the 12AT7 valves for different valves. No change in behaviour.
  
 Then I tried swapping the 12AT7 valves from one channel to thte other. No change in behaviour.
  
 Then I tried swapping the 6N30P valves on the left channel to the right channel and the ones on the right to left. No change in behaviour.
  
 Now I understand from post 2145 in this thread by tll that the meter is to monitor the bias current for the +ve signal power tube, not the -ve signal power tube.
  
 That being the case, it can't be due to a valve failing, can it?


----------



## SonicTrance

colliedoggy said:


> The ground pin on the 3 pin  XLR sockets is not connected to anything. The ground wire inside the case is connected only to the case. I am certain it is wired correctly.
> 
> Everything is fine for several hours. It is just that after about 5 hours the left needle drops significantly.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not sure this is correct. I had a failing power tube in my mk6 and it didn't matter which socket it was plugged into, all four sockets gave me bad meter readings. If it was in the left channel, the left meter reading were off. Right channel, right meter reading were off.


----------



## Maxx134

The meters show the powertube bias for that chanel, 
But you say it the same meter even when you swap tubes...

So unless you have 2 bad power tubes, 
Looks like either your meter may have bad connection, or a circuit problem.


----------



## Redge78

> However, after a few hours of use the left meter reading drops significantly. After about five hours I turn it off for five or ten minutes as the left meter is getting too close to zero for my comfort. After a rest, everything fires up fine again with nearly matching meter readings to start with, before the left one gradually drops again over a few hours.


 
 OK, you need first to check the temp of your amp.
 I strongly suspect that the heat is building up slowly, up to a point where something is failing.
  
 Maxx and I have a MK8 and both of us have added some fan to cool the inside.
 The MK8 was designed from the MK6, and strangely the 2 fans of the MK6 were replaced by some useless grill on the MK8
  
 With a proper ventilation, the amp should never be warmer than your hand, even after 5H operation (while my amp was burning hot before the fan was installed).
  
  


> (I am very much looking forward to the mods thread. I'm not going to spend as much as other people here have, but I will definitely be making the most cost effective mods at some point in the future.)


 
 Well, you don't want to pay to much attention to the rich kids around  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 You can have the "entry level" pack of the major mods for $150, and some of them are in the $20/$30 range. And it will already be a tremendous improvement over stock.


----------



## colliedoggy

Thanks for that: my first mod will be fan cooling! Did you power your fan from the unit's power supply, or use an additional external source?
  
 That said, when I do sit down to make mods, I will attempt to track down the problem component and replace it and the corresponding part on the other channel.
  
 On the one hand I want to start modding now, but on the other I don't want to stop listening to it!


----------



## coinmaster

> On the one hand I want to start modding now, but on the other I don't want to stop listening to it!


 
 Ugh, I know that pain more than you do! Not only has modding stopped me from listening, but I've had a damaged ear since january which I keep happening to reinjure. Now I gotta let my caps burn in for about 20 days before I really listen to it.
  


> Did you power your fan from the unit's power supply, or use an additional external source?


 
 Don't use the internal supply. It dirties up the power. Use an external 12v molex plug or something.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Ugh, I know that pain more than you do! Not only has modding stopped me from listening, but I've had a damaged ear since january which I keep happening to reinjure. Now I gotta let my caps burn in for about 20 days before I really listen to it.
> 
> Don't use the internal supply. It dirties up the power. Use an external 12v molex plug or something.


 
 Same here. Fan powered by the PC.
  
 Anyway, you don't have any plug/connector for a fan on the MK8 board.


----------



## tll

from my experience with the LD6+, so not necessary relevant to your LD8

1. The meter monitors the loading current in two power tubes only, those which are for +ve signal current amplification
2. The loading current in the power tube depends on
- the power tube itself
- plat voltages at pin #2 and #5 
- the values of the loading resistors (330R), a faulty R here? (use a DM measure the DC voltage before and after these loading resistors can confirm the problem is from the voltage supplied to power tubes)
- power supply caps
- MJ1502/1501 regulator under the black heat sink


most likely it is due to heat build up causing some components failing


----------



## SonicTrance

tll said:


> from my experience with the LD6+, so not necessary relevant to your LD8
> 
> 1. The meter monitors the loading current in two power tubes only, those which are for +ve signal current amplification
> 2. The loading current in the power tube depends on
> ...




Please read my post above, I also got the mk6+. If a tube is going bad the meter for that channel will show bad readings. It doesn't matter which socket the tube is plugged into.


----------



## tll

Hi misterX

What you say make sense, I need more time to trace the wiring of the meter.
What I am guessing is that the auto biasing circuitry will maintain the current flow to be identical to go into the two power tubes, and the meter is to monitor the +ve signal tube (which should then be identical to the -ve signal tube).


----------



## Maxx134

My guess is incorrect voltage due to your voltage regulators wired incorrectly as I stated & clearly shown in past posted pics the blue & green are incorrect while the yellow was correct..
Unless you took care of it.


Edit:
I will be opening up my unit soon,
So I will take power supply measurements to compare..


----------



## Redge78

Voltage measurements ... I made this a long time ago when Maxx and I were preparing our first mods ...
  
 A partial schematics of the PSU/Power stage. The measurements were taken without the tubes so it may be a little different in real life.


----------



## Mogos

> case.


 
 Coinmaster, I don't know you but I already like you  .


----------



## coinmaster

How bout now?


----------



## Mogos

You rendered me speechless.


----------



## Mogos

I have also something to show you.
 Maybe not so drastic like Coinmaster  .
 Stage two is done.

 I have named the mod by the name of the capacitors to be used.
 The cage is insulated from the rest of the amp chasis and separately earthed.
 It stops all the radio and GSM waves.
 Now its time for the stage three. Most of the parts have already landed.

 I am missing only resistors.
 You are probaly wondering how this guy want to fit the pot of this shape and size in place on the existing one.
 I do have a very cunning plan. If I will succed then will let you know how I have done it.


----------



## coinmaster

Wait until the mod thread comes out before doing any complete modding. In order to get the most out of optimizing the amp you not only have to replace certain parts but you have to add some as well. Simply replacing parts with higher quality parts isn't best.
In fact the resistors are the only thing we kept at the same values. There's also other things that matter for certain components like distance to board which will make an audible difference, which will also affect your planning on how and where to solder your new components.
Redge and Maxx have been diligently reverse engineering the amp and testing everything to a T. They are currently deliberating on any potential alteration that can be made to the transformer/shunt regulator area.

They are trying to get the information on the mod thread to be as complete as possible because of the sheer amount of questions that will be asked. There's a lot of technical info that needs to be understood in order to upgrade properly, like what capacitor types matter for what parts of the board, what kind of specs for that capacitor type to shoot for, which sections benefit from low miliohm caps and therefore benefit from being as close to the board as possible, what capacitance values to choose and why, etc, etc. You'd be surprised how something seemingly insignificant can affect the sound. I was, and each upgrade was an improvement either as big or almost as big as a coupling cap upgrade. Like I said in an earlier post, the sound isn't even in the same catagory anymore.


----------



## Redge78

> They are currently deliberating on any potential alteration that can be made to the transformer/shunt regulator area.


 
 Or we've been drinking margaritas and chasing girls on a beach in south of Spain ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
@Mogos
 I don't see anything incompatible with the mods we have experimented, some of them are new to us (the pot, the new XLR plugs) and we would be very interested to have some explanation/feedbacks from you.
  
 The Jupiters are splendid, just make sure to solder them in the right direction (the line on the label should be in the direction of the pot, if I remember well) and to keep the full lenght of the leads, you'll need it to work on the "Blue Crap" caps underneath.


----------



## SonicTrance

redge78 said:


> Or we've been drinking margaritas and chasing girls on a beach in south of Spain ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why would you wanna keep the full length of the leads?


----------



## Mogos

The pot is balanced shunt type with SMD Vishay precision resistors. I have learned about the shunt type potentiometers that they have varying input impedance. This type of topology is suitable for low impedance signal sources. Mine on the XLR connection is declared less then 3 ohm. So it shall be ok. The advantage is that you have only two resistors in the signal path. I am not using the pot often as I am regulating the loudness +- 10 db digitaly. The best ladder shunt type solution will require 8 poles . Too fit it you will need Coinmaster casing solution and to turn it (with the type of mechanics in the pot on the photo - 4 poles) winch will be welcomed . The XLR plugs are Neutrik as the ones already used in the amp but with silver contacts. The reason for changing them is that I have interconnects with silver pins. The tube sockets are teflon with precision and very tight gold plated contacts. Wires are teflon insulated OFC silver plated copper. Capacitor dosen't need any comments.
  
 Redge78 can you explain more more vividly about direction the Jupiter to be installed. There was a question once about the polarity of the installed caps.
 What you mean: line on the label. There is sign Jupiter and some description of the values. Is it correct way of my thinking that the (+) is at (J)  u p i t e  and (-) at (r).
 What about the polarity of the connections on the board where is + and where is -.

  
 What about the Blue Crap caps : _you'll need it to work on the "Blue Crap" caps underneath. _Are there any other parts I haven't yet seen. Maybe some photos .
  
 The stage for changing the parts will be a challenge for me as electronics is not even my hobby.


----------



## Redge78

sonictrance said:


> Why would you wanna keep the full length of the leads?


 
 1 - it's pure silver and you won't find anything better : _"Silver 4N Wire Leads 20awg"_
2 - You may want to re-use them in an another project and you may need the lenght
3 - You may want to sell them, it's easier with the leads 
4 - You will need to work around them and it's easier if you can move them a little bit (you don't want to boil them with your iron)
5 - The Jupiter are used as coupling caps and the "extra-lenghty wire" is not a problem there
  
  
  
*About the direction :*
You have a line on one side of the label, around the "Copper Foil" writing. 
_"...The line on the label indicates the outermost foil, and should be connected to the lowest impedance path to ground...." _which should be the output of the driver stage, hence the line should be pointing to the front of the amp.
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/jupiter_copper_foil_in_wax.html


----------



## coinmaster

> What about the Blue Crap caps : _you'll need it to work on the "Blue Crap" caps underneath. _Are there any other parts I haven't yet seen. Maybe some photos .
> 
> The stage with changing the parts will be very chalaging for me as electronics is not even my hobby.


 
 Hopefully the mod thread will be released very soon, you're gunna wana have the complete information since it all kinda ties in together. I'm forbidden from talking about it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As for it being challenging, electronics is not my hobby either, I don't think challenging is the word for it, just very tedious and slow. You have to double and triple check that you are being patient and careful or you'll end up burning/ruining something you don't want. Heck I've got points all over the board where I melted portions of the red capacitors (which I hope isn't making any audible difference) and wires and even burned off the soldering pads on the board (thankfully the traces were on the other side of the board for those).
 It's pretty easy to "accidentally" do something, but the good news is you are working on the circuitry to begin with so anything you break you can easily replace or resolder or whatever.
 I can't place enough emphasis on being patient and careful though, rushing it breaks things. 
  
 Speaking of the direction of capacitors. Does anyone know if direction matters for my Duelunds?


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Speaking of the direction of capacitors. Does anyone know if direction matters for my Duelunds?


 
1st RULE: You do not talk about Mods.
 2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about Mods.
3rd RULE: If the amp says "stop" or goes limp, burn out the mod is over.
4th RULE: Only two guys to a mod. _Dunno really, your call ... I just get it ! The Master and his Apprentice_
5th RULE: One mod at a time.
6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes. _Antistatic precaution ..._
7th RULE: Mods will go on as long as they have to.
8th RULE: If you want to post at MOD THREAD, you HAVE to mod.
  
  
 With Duelund RS 400V  _"...The outer lead out, *closest to the edge of the capacitor*, is connected to the outer foil and as such should be connected to the lowest impedance path to ground..."_
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/duelund-rs-electronic.html
 I don't know if this apply to the CAST tho. You better send Duelund a mail.


----------



## SonicTrance

redge78 said:


> 1 - it's pure silver and you won't find anything better : _"[COLOR=474747]Silver 4N Wire Leads 20awg"[/COLOR]_
> [COLOR=474747]2 - You may want to re-use them in an another project and you may need the lenght[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=474747]3 - You may want to sell them, it's easier with the leads [/COLOR]
> [COLOR=474747]4 - You will need to work around them and it's easier if you can move them a little bit (you don't want to boil them with your iron)[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=474747]5 - The Jupiter are used as coupling caps and the "extra-lenghty wire" is not a problem there[/COLOR]




Ok, so no sonic advantage then. That's great cause I cut mine off of the Mundorfs, makes for a cleaner build


----------



## coinmaster

I recommend keeping the leads as well. You'll be putting quite a lot of things in that area once all is said and done (more on that in the upgrade thread).


----------



## Mogos

> *About the direction :*
> You have a line on one side of the label, around the "Copper Foil" writing.
> _"...The line on the label indicates the outermost foil, and should be connected to the lowest impedance path to ground...." _which should be the output of the driver stage, hence the line should be pointing to the front of the amp.
> http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/jupiter_copper_foil_in_wax.html


 
 I found it. Thanks for the info.


----------



## coinmaster

I have a question.
 David told me I could mix 5998 tubes with 6sn7/6080 tubes if each pair was match.
 I'm using half dead 5998 tungsols with relatively new 6sn7/6080 tubes.
 Is that a problem? Why does it matter? Am I hurting the amp or the tubes?


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> I have a question.
> David told me I could mix 5998 tubes with 6sn7/6080 tubes if each pair was match.
> I'm using half dead 5998 tungsols with relatively new 6sn7/6080 tubes.
> Is that a problem? Why does it matter? Am I hurting the amp or the tubes?




I guess you mean 6AS7 not 6SN7? Matched pairs are good but you can't match a 5998 and a 6AS7/6080 as the 5998 has a transconductance of 14000 micromhos and the 6080 only has 7000. Then there's the gain difference...

I can't see that a matched pair of 6080/6AS7 and a matched pair of 5998 would make a difference in your case as you're splitting them up anyway by using one per channel.


----------



## coinmaster

I'm currently using 2 thomson 6080s and 2 tung sol 5998s. It's the best pairing I've heard so far. Deep, abundant, powerful bass(on the HD800s no less) intimate sound/ huge, airy soundstage/ realistic vocals. Let's not get into the sound separation and imaging, although most of that is the upgrades rather than the tubes.
 For some reason no matter what tubes I use to mix, they always sound better with the thomson 6080s mixed in, even though 4 thomson 6080s together don't sound all that great.
  
 Also positioning matters, for example
  
 If I plug them in like this
  
 Tungsol   Thomson  Tungsol  Thomson
  
 it kinda sounds bad
  
 But when I plug them in like this
  
 Thomson  Tungsol  Thomson  Tungsol
  
 it sounds amazing.


----------



## SonicTrance

That's strange. Why does it sound different in different sockets? Oh, did you resolder your meters yet? I wanna know the readings with mixed tubes


----------



## coinmaster

I don't know why. It does that with all tube mixing though. They sound different in different sockets. I assume they play different roles in the circuitry? I've heard from a few people that 2 of them are primary and 2 of them are secondary, whatever that means.
  
 Also, I too am very interested in knowing what the meters say. I hope they are not at like 100 or something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But you have to understand, it is a raw nightmare taking the connections apart to lift the amp off of the external box. Like, you have no idea. Took me 1.5 hours with the help of another person to get it all fixed in. Not a lot of space to work with because some wires have to be very short between the box components and the circuit board.
 I'm receiving high quality fork connectors in the mail soon to replace my cheap ones so I have to open it up soon anyway.


----------



## SonicTrance

My guess is that they'll read about 45mA, as the 5998 gives you 30mA and 6AS7 60mA. But I really have no idea, just guessing. I still don't think the tubes gets biased correctly when you mix them in the same channel though.


----------



## coinmaster

As long as I'm not hurting anything. It sounds amazing.


----------



## SonicTrance

Yeah, in the end that's all that matters


----------



## Maxx134

coinmaster said:


> I'm currently using 2 thomson 6080s and 2 tung sol 5998s. It's the best pairing I've heard so far. Deep, abundant, powerful bass(on the HD800s no less) intimate sound/ huge, airy soundstage/ realistic vocals. Let's not get into the sound separation and imaging, although most of that is the upgrades rather than the tubes.
> For some reason no matter what tubes I use to mix, they always sound better with the thomson 6080s mixed in, even though 4 thomson 6080s together don't sound all that great.
> 
> Also positioning matters, for example
> ...



Thats because one tube is for the positive, and other tube ia outputting the negative of the signal.
The positive signal tube is responsible for the leading transient edge of the sound.
The other tube will play a role as the negative so you can imagine that would also affect perception as the music is handled between both tubes...

*Quote:
Heck I've got points all over the board where I melted portions of the red capacitors (which I hope isn't making any audible difference) *
No the outside is pretty durable if you melt it a bit no worries, BUT...
If you notice any nasty "pop" when second meter kicks in,
OR
Any tiny pitched hum, then you may want to check those little red caps...
I currently replacing one because they are ao tight on the board,
That my other cap pressed on it and not the connection is bad in it.
When I press on it, my symptoms go away, but instead of resoldering,
I chose to replace as they are not expensive...

*Quote:
Why would you wanna keep the full length of the leads?*

It is related to mods and especially for me who has contained mods within same unit..
So Rule#1 applys cannot tell you why 
Because not mod thread.


I am also currently upgrading coupling caps to jupiters...

So I will have a comparison for everyone of them against the current Mundorf silver/gold/oil caps which I was using all this time,

But since Coinmaster had to get the dam Duelunds, (lol) 
I suddenly felt need for copper/wax combo,
Considered as most natural sound.
So we will see...


----------



## coinmaster

> Coinmaster had to get the dam Duelunds


 
 Eat it.


----------



## Maxx134

Then again, 
Who am I to Say, 
I spent as much on my tubes...


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Eat it.


 
 Yes, exactly !
  
 But he can do that drinking some Chateau Yggdrasil 2009 ...


----------



## greenkiwi

sonictrance said:


> Ok, so no sonic advantage then. That's great cause I cut mine off of the Mundorfs, makes for a cleaner build




I actually think that he was suggesting that you mount them as close to the board as possible so that you could cut off and reuse as much of the leads as possible, since they were silver.


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, I have a feeling anyone who cut their mundorf leads are gunna regret if they intend to do the full upgrade. I had to resort to putting components on the other side of the board because I had no room, even with an 8 inch lead on my duelunds.


----------



## SonicTrance

coinmaster said:


> Yeah, I have a feeling anyone who cut their mundorf leads are gunna regret if they intend to do the full upgrade. I had to resort to putting components on the other side of the board because I had no room, even with an 8 inch lead on my duelunds.


 
 I wont regret it. I still got plenty of room under my caps, they can't actually be any higher and still fit inside the case. If the upgrade isn't possible to do nice and tidy inside the case I wont do it. I like it clean


----------



## coinmaster

Well, you should be alright then. I was referring more to the "all-out" approach. The conservative approach like what Maxx did will be able to fit it all inside the case as long as there is some room beneath the coupling caps.
  
 Also, am I the only one who doesn't understand why people will compromise on sound quality in order to make it look good? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm okay with having a giant turd in my living room as long as it sounds good


----------



## SonicTrance

I'm sure your not the only one. I just like things clean and tidy. I've been into PC modding for a number of years, maybe that's were it comes from. It's the small details that makes the perfect mod


----------



## coinmaster

I build and mod PCs too. I can care less about the details though as long as it works and stays cool 
  
 P.S. Pascal GPUs and Occulus rift soon, WOO!


----------



## SonicTrance

I mod PCs for performance but mostly to make them look good. Highly OT but here's a pic of my last build


----------



## Maxx134

greenkiwi said:


> sonictrance said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, so no sonic advantage then. That's great cause I cut mine off of the Mundorfs, makes for a cleaner build
> ...



No the opposite.

You want longer leads so you can adjust and move them toward the front of unit, so you have more space for the other caps to put in..




coinmaster said:


> Well, you should be alright then. I was referring more to the "all-out" approach. The conservative approach like what Maxx did will be able to fit it all inside the case as long as there is some room beneath the coupling caps.
> 
> Also, am I the only one who doesn't understand why people will compromise on sound quality in order to make it look good?   I'm okay with having a giant turd in my living room as long as it sounds good



You are mistaken,
I do not have a conservative approach...

My components are closer to board than yours,
 which offsets some of the size diffrrence.

My version must be called the "compact" version, 
in order to fit in stock case...

It is not the "conservative" version...

Also you know, I also have experimented and updated other areas of the board,
 to see if there were any sonic gains to be atttained..

So actually,
Mine is the "most" modded version, 
At this point..(!).


----------



## coinmaster

Most modded but still most conservative. I was referring to the size, not the changes themselves. When comparing to Redge and me it's hard not to think of the word conservative. Compact works too


----------



## Maxx134

Ok, if compact works haha.
Actually the size increase benifits you more than me,
As you have the MK6 which has higher output tubes..
So it makes sense to go big.

We would have to refer to Redge78 to crunch some technical info for minimal values for mk6, as I like to approximate more often.


----------



## coinmaster

Speaking of higher output wattage. The MK6 is supposed to have an output of 5w, which in reality is more like 1w and the tubes themselves are only rated for 2w max of clean sound. So much for my dreams of using an electrostatic converter which requires 3w.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Speaking of higher output wattage. The MK6 is supposed to have an output of 5w, which in reality is more like 1w and the tubes themselves are only rated for 2w max of clean sound. So much for my dreams of using an electrostatic converter which requires 3w.


 
 I think we've been over this several times already ... make your life easier, buy an electrostatic AMPLIFIER which requires an RCA input. Some used ones are excellent and cheap. 
  


> We would have to refer to Redge78 to crunch some technical info for minimal values for mk6, as I like to approximate more often.


 
 An HD800 at 110dB will need the same power, from an MK6 or a MK8 !
 What we need to know is how much modulated current an MK6 can reasonnably provide. Roughly, if we consider the respective Max Powers, probably something around 5/2 of an MK8, maybe a bit more if the PP voltage is lower. Let say 3 times the max current the MK8 produce. So, yes we would need 3 time larger caps for the MK6, if we want to use all the headphones that fit (including those "low impedance" that the MK8 can't touch).
  
  


> So actually,
> Mine is the "most" modded version,
> At this point..(!).


 
 Oh yes, definitively ... inside _and outside !!!_
And that is not even considering the mods on the headphone, the yamYggy, the power supply, etc, etc ...
  
_And not considering the mod that only Maxx had the ability to do, based on space-age Nasa-approved material, from a 3D model requiring 1500 PetaFlops of raw calculating power in order to optimise the vibratory nature of hundred of frenzy components, the thermal gradients of mathematically positionned  layers.... _
_He put glue everywhere ... _


----------



## coinmaster

> I think we've been over this several times already ... make your life easier, buy an electrostatic AMPLIFIER which requires an RCA input. Some used ones are excellent and cheap.


 
 NEVER!!
  
 Waste of money and will never sound as good as this amp.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> NEVER!!
> 
> Waste of money and will never sound as good as this amp.


 
 You have to consider that what you'll be listening is not your MK8 but the MK8 going through this small Wee box with its 2c caps and resistors ...
 How much of the original quality will remain after that ?
  
 You also will have to consider that if the power requirement is too high, you'll have to push your precious NOS 6H30 and they will wear out "fast".


----------



## coinmaster

Oh well, it's a moot point anyway. It will never work.
 I'll just buy a Line Magnetic speaker amp since they are bang for buck legends in the speaker world.


----------



## Redge78

coinmaster said:


> Oh well, it's a moot point anyway. It will never work.
> I'll just buy a Line Magnetic speaker amp since they are bang for buck legends in the speaker world.


 
 And this amp, will you allow us to mod it ? It would be fun as hell !


----------



## john57

coinmaster said:


> Oh well, it's a moot point anyway. It will never work.
> I'll just buy a Line Magnetic speaker amp since they are bang for buck legends in the speaker world.


 
 Well just get the LM-1 model which will double as a big room heater.


----------



## coinmaster

> And this amp, will you allow us to mod it ? It would be fun as hell !


 
   ​Lol, maybe. I heard the 219ia benefits from a duelund upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Although the monoblock version of the 219ia is supposed to have superior components to even the 219ia, so who knows.
 In any case the 219ia is supposed to be equal to a $25k+ amp at a $7k price due to chinese price cutting awesomness.
 Also pretty much every review of it raves about how musical they are and how they get all emontional when they hear it.
 I'm cool with that too.


----------



## john57

A emotion generator amp, gee.


----------



## john57

I saw the photos of the 219ia inside and it looks like a power plant parts. I would say that the 219a is a best value per pound I ever seen.


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, Line Magnetic is supposed to be legendary for their bang for buck. 
 They made some of the first amplifiers way back when but in this century they just restored vintage sound equipment. Then they used their knowledge to come out with their own line. Never seen a review of their 219ia that didn't act like it changed their life.
 Yay china.
  
 Speaking of pounds it weighs 121 lbs and has to be shipped by crate.
  
 I'm going to get the monoblock version and use my modded MKVI+ as a preamp. My MKVI+ is about the size of the 219ia after upgrades anyway lol.


----------



## Maxx134

Dam I am not knowing anything except, 
*"Yay china".*.


----------



## Benny-x

coinmaster said:


> Yeah, Line Magnetic is supposed to be legendary for their bang for buck.
> They made some of the first amplifiers way back when but in this century they just restored vintage sound equipment. Then they used their knowledge to come out with their own line. Never seen a review of their 219ia that didn't act like it changed their life.
> Yay china.
> 
> ...


 
 I've read some of those reviews too and also have fallen in love with the 219ia. I'm also here in China, so we can get them for $3600 delivered. That'll be down the road for me though, need the house/apartment to put the space heater in first. And to get a MkIV+ before that...
  


maxx134 said:


> Dam I am not knowing anything except,
> *"Yay China".*.


 
 Yay China!
  
 ----------------------------------
  
 My big issue with the 219ia, and pretty much any other component/piece, is the lack of balanced XLR ins and outs. I'm hooked on them now and I can't turn back. I've gone fully balanced from DAC to speaker inputs in my inbound Emotiva Pro Stealth 8s. I've wanted to get a Pioneer SX-990 for a while, which don't have balanced ins/outs and mod it somehow, but finding out how is well beyond my boredom killing time right now. I know there's gotta be a way to swing it and not kill it all too. 
  
 Goooo mod thread!


----------



## coinmaster

That's why you buy the monoblock version of the 219ia. http://china-highend-hifi.com/LM-503PA,%20En.html
 It costs the same as the 219ia but has better components being monoblock and obviously it can be used balanced. The main difference is it doesn't have a preamp. But that is what the LD amp is for 
  
 And jeez, I need to like, order through you or something if you can get one for $3600 lol.


----------



## Benny-x

coinmaster said:


> That's why you buy the monoblock version of the 219ia. http://china-highend-hifi.com/LM-503PA,%20En.html
> It costs the same as the 219ia but has better components being monoblock and obviously it can be used balanced. The main difference is it doesn't have a preamp. But that is what the LD amp is for


 
 hmm, nice to know. In looking at the description though it says "single ended design" and "monoblock design". So do that just mean the balanced input is summed(?) and just for compatibility purposes, not to run the amps in true balanced mod? That's probably a questions for the company, but since we're talking about it...


----------



## coinmaster

Balanced designs use 2 dacs and 2 amps, 1 for each channel. So monoblocks are the same thing, just better and without the preamp. Notice the LM 503PA has balance in connections as well, unlike the 219ia. Just hook your LD preamp output to that baby and go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 although I wouldn't hook up a stock LD amp to a power amp like that, only after upgrades. 
  
 Oh and BTW, how much does the LM 503PA cost in china?


----------



## baronbeehive

Looks like a trip to China for your hols could be in the offing........ you might struggle through customs with that on your back though. Don't forget you can't use the LD as a pre for a direct coupled amp because of the differences in voltage that might occur with a tube failure as I've said many times.  I know the 219ia is built like a tank but you don't want to see it disappear in a puff or smoke.


----------



## coinmaster

Can you explain that to me in layman's terms? Is line magnetic a DC amp?


----------



## baronbeehive

In an amp with one or more different input and output stages, for example between a built in pre and power stage a direct coupled amp will connect these stages at the same voltage bias but with a non DC amp the different stages normally have different DC biases, so a transformer or capacitor provides the necessary DC isolation. There could be many other stages built into an amp depending on the design. You can see why a fluctuating voltage could therefore cause problems and you are warned not to use the LD for this reason, it's in the manual.


----------



## coinmaster

So just to be clear, this is a DC amp? http://china-highend-hifi.com/LM-503PA,%20En.html


----------



## john57

coinmaster said:


> So just to be clear, this is a DC amp? http://china-highend-hifi.com/LM-503PA,%20En.html


 
 No it is not a DC coupled amp since it uses a "_Special processed EI type  broadband output transformer_" The LD VI uses DC servo to control DC offset at the outputs without the use of output caps to block the DC. Only a few tube amps uses DC servo circuit in them.


----------



## coinmaster

Yay! Now my plans aren't ruined. Now to book some tickets to china.
 Hey Benny-X, if you're not a serial killer can I crash at your house for a bit?


----------



## Maxx134

New mod thread released:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/782183/little-dot-mk8se-mk6-super-mods/0_20#post_11945171


----------



## Mogos




----------



## baronbeehive

Well done guys, great to see how much work you're putting into this. Should be good for all of us who are really into our music, and it should keep Little Dot in the spotlight, I was sorry to see that they seem to have fallen out of favour somewhat since the good old days of the Penchum reviews that did so much to push the amp at the time.


----------



## coinmaster

Yeah, LD does seem to be rather unknown. Bottlehead crack is their well known competition on the other hand.
 Not sure how the Crack sounds in comparison, only that it is the other heralded "bang for buck" amp.


----------



## Maxx134

Heard alot of tube amps besides that one.

There all different levels of niceness and sonic beauty, 
But No thanks...


----------



## coinmaster

Well, like I said before. I've heard the flagship amps of Mcintosh/MoonAudio/Hi-FIMAN/etc with my HD800s and none of them sounded as good as my LD after upgrades. After upgrading I was sad for people that actually spent 8 grand or whatever on those amps.


----------



## Mogos

Isn't it only single ended (Bottlehead crack). If yes then there is no competition.


----------



## Benny-x

coinmaster said:


> Yay! Now my plans aren't ruined. Now to book some tickets to china.
> Hey Benny-X, if you're not a serial killer can I crash at your house for a bit?


 
 Awesome, I'll have a new set of lampshades and maybe a set of pillow covers after I get you lotioned up for a few days...


----------



## Koukol

Does anyone have a  LD MKIII gain setting that works best with a 300Ohm HP?
 I have the HD 650's.
  
 I gotta admit the instructions are confusing since, if I understand it correctly, both switches should be "on"
 What confuses me is shouldn't this GAIN setting be a "10" and not a "3" as listed?


----------



## Poladise

This is the mk6/8 thread btw Koukol, but on the mkiii - setting 3 (both switches on for each channel) is suggested for high ohm headphones like yours. It's only a suggestion though, see which you like best. High gain 10 (both off) sounds more full and colourful, but low sounds cleaner, with probably a bit less distortion.


----------



## Koukol

Oops.
 I missed the V ...Cheers!
 So you prefer them off for 300 Ohm HPs?


----------



## Poladise

Highest I've used with mkiii is 60ohm LCDs, but I noticed this on 32ohm grados and 25ohm denons too, maybe it's different on the high ohm stuff though. Wish the VI was more like the full musical sound of the mk iii to be honest, seems like the path of least resistance is to make the VI sound like a Mjolnir.


----------



## SONYES

I have an opportunity tomorrow to buy LD MK8
my MARANTZ SA11 + CDA94 -
HOW ?
it integrates with HD800 transparency in terms of the depth of sound across the stage tonality separation of instruments -
I have the Laxman P-1U and BCL original - as amps
Thanks


----------



## Redge78

sonyes said:


> I have an opportunity tomorrow to buy LD MK8
> my MARANTZ SA11 + CDA94 -
> HOW ?
> it integrates with HD800 transparency in terms of the depth of sound across the stage tonality separation of instruments -
> ...


 
 This is a bit ... "cryptic".
  
 What is the question ? and why posting here (when already posted in the main MK6/MK8 thread ...) ?


----------



## SONYES

redge78 said:


> This is a bit ... "cryptic".
> 
> What is the question ? and why posting here (when already posted in the main MK6/MK8 thread ...) ?



 






Please I made a mistake
 when I saw it comes to improving the amplifier and have been the place where - my mistake.

My question is
 one that I have the opportunity to buy second hand with lamps probably just upgraded the amplifier drivers that LD8 -. I have the P-1U + BCL
. Will I feel the difference of heaven and earth tone. I read all posts,
 barely came to the conclusion that it might change my amp an experience of listening to the HD800. 
Perhaps I do not know well asks the experience of the distinguished members of the site who have a little more experience than mine equipment better than mine

best regards


----------



## Redge78

sonyes said:


> redge78 said:
> 
> 
> > This is a bit ... "cryptic".
> ...


 
 Hi there,
  
 The MK8 is a very good amp in stock form, dedicated to "high impedance" headphones, and more especially the HD800.
 So, yes, I'm pretty sure that you'll have a much different listening experience with this OTL/OCL tube amp than with your Solid State amps.
  
 And we tend to believe that if you go the modding route, you'll have an amp that you'll be near to the best listening experience there is, no matter the price.
 Obviously, that requires a bit of time and patience, but that's worth it ten times.


----------



## SONYES

redge78 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> The MK8 is a very good amp in stock form, dedicated to "high impedance" headphones, and more especially the HD800.
> So, yes, I'm pretty sure that you'll have a much different listening experience with this OTL/OCL tube amp than with your Solid State amps.
> ...



 

thank you


----------



## stvn758

Balanced headphones, I'm getting confused. Read up on the basics it's just the different connectors - I have a two 3 pin XLR cable for my Sen HD800's when they arrive, amps seem to have a single four pin XLR on the front. 
  
 What is the standard for balanced headphones, which connector type came first?  I'm probably going to end up connecting my Audiolab MDAC to the amp via the balanced out to the amp's balanced input. Then have the headphones connected to the balanced output at the back with female to female XLR adaptors, which is messy to say the least.
  
 Does using an adaptor degrade the sound, there's probably an adaptor you can turn a two 3 pin XLR into a four pin to plug into the front, isn't there. 
  
 What's best?


----------



## Androb

stvn758 said:


> Balanced headphones, I'm getting confused. Read up on the basics it's just the different connectors - I have a two 3 pin XLR cable for my Sen HD800's when they arrive, amps seem to have a single four pin XLR on the front.
> 
> What is the standard for balanced headphones, which connector type came first?  I'm probably going to end up connecting my Audiolab MDAC to the amp via the balanced out to the amp's balanced input. Then have the headphones connected to the balanced output at the back with female to female XLR adaptors, which is messy to say the least.
> 
> ...


 
 I think you should get a 2x3xlr to 4pin xlr converter and connect it to the front.


----------



## stvn758

androb said:


> I think you should get a 2x3xlr to 4pin xlr converter and connect it to the front.


 
  
 Thanks, I already have two female to female adaptors so I can test them out on my MDAC, be a while before I can afford another big purchase. There are a couple of Little Dot amps, this and a Little Dot MK VI+ MK6+ Balanced Headphone Amplifier/Pre-Amplifier Black on ebay for £529 which I've been watching. 
  
 Back to working my way through this thread.


----------



## Androb

stvn758 said:


> Thanks, I already have two female to female adaptors so I can test them out on my MDAC, be a while before I can afford another big purchase. There are a couple of Little Dot amps, this and a Little Dot MK VI+ MK6+ Balanced Headphone Amplifier/Pre-Amplifier Black on ebay for £529 which I've been watching.
> 
> Back to working my way through this thread.


 
 Well tbh I don't actually know how it works to plug the headphones in the output in the back. You might wanna wait for some answers from the others in this thread!


----------



## stvn758

androb said:


> Well tbh I don't actually know how it works to plug the headphones in the output in the back. You might wanna wait for some answers from the others in this thread!


 
  
 Be a while until I get it all together, managed to find the cable you mentioned. Would be a lot tidier.


----------



## ViperGeek

levinhatz said:


> Get yourself a pair of replacement fans- personally I got Noctua 80mm fans, and they're pretty darn quiet. Just make sure to get a fan cable Y splitter as there's just one fan input for the two fans.


 
  
 I'm not sure if replying to a 1.5 year old post is bad form, but I got my MK VI+ two weeks ago and love everything ... except the fans.  I let my mouse wander over to Amazon looking for Noctua fans and there are several:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=noctua+80mm+fan
  
 Any recommendations as to the best model for the Little Dot MK VI+, whether I need two, and if there are any "gotchas" on replacing and wiring them in?
  
 Thanks!
  
 - Dave


----------



## Roscoeiii

A few folks have replaced them with quieter fans, but haven't done it myself yet. There is also a mod thread for these Amos somewhere. In this thread or another folks also report giving the fans their own power supply.


----------



## SonicTrance

vipergeek said:


> levinhatz said:
> 
> 
> > Get yourself a pair of replacement fans- personally I got Noctua 80mm fans, and they're pretty darn quiet. Just make sure to get a fan cable Y splitter as there's just one fan input for the two fans.
> ...


 
 If you don't want to do any modding, these will do the trick: http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-R8-80mm-Fan-2-Pack/dp/B001QYLOA4/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1451034963&sr=8-11&keywords=noctua+80mm+fan
 No need to get static pressure fans as you want high airflow, not pressure. You'll also need a 3-pin Y-splitter cable as that quote above suggests.


----------



## hbuus

Get the one with ULN in the name, it has the lowest rpm and is the most quiet according to Noctua's homepage.
I have two Noctua fans in my pc and they really are excellent. Very quiet. But they don't come cheap compared to other fans. Price is worth it though if you value quiet-operating electronics.
Mine came with a so-called Low Noise Adapter cable which when used with the fan makes it even more quiet.
Do remember however that low rpm means less cooling so it is a tradeoff.
You could try with the ULN and see if you think it cools your LD enough and if not, get a Noctua with a higer rpm.


----------



## ViperGeek

Thank you all for the replies.
  
 I haven't taken the bottom off my MK VI+ yet.  Will a 10cm Y cable be long enough:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B46XKKQ
  
 - Dave


----------



## ViperGeek

OK, so it's taken me just over two weeks of evenings to get through all 150 pages of replies, but I finally did it <insert fanfare here>.  I appreciate all the time and effort everyone — especially the rock stars of the thread; and you know who you are — put into reading and responding to questions, posting their successes and funny-smelling (or shocking) failures, and providing commentary over the last 61 months.
  
 Along the way, I've collected a wide and varied list of tube-rolling recommendations, specifically in my case, for the MK VI+:
  

6SL7GT RCA (Driver Tubes) | TubeDepot.com
Tung-Sol 6SL7GT (Driver Tubes) | TubeDepot.com
Tung Sol 6SL7GT Cryo Treated Matched Pair (2) Vacuum Tubes
6SN7-UK (Driver Tubes) | Psvane & Shuguang Treasure Audio Tubes
CV181-TII aka 6SN7 (Driver Tubes) | Psvane & Shuguang Treasure Audio Tubes
Sophia Electric™ Premium 6SN7 (Driver Tubes)
6AS7G / 6520 (Power Tubes)| TubeDepot.com
6N5S (black plate) (Power Tubes) - Tubes-Store.com
Tung Sol 5998 (Power Tubes) | Tubes Unlimited
  
 I'm curious, as a way to reinvigorate this thread while at the same time provide advice to a first-time tube roller, which is the best first driver and power tubes to order?  My current setup consists of balanced LCD-2s and SE HD 650s driven by a balanced DAC (Grace Design m920).  Music tastes vary from female soloists (my favorite) all the way to metal with some pop diversions along the way to keep things interesting.  I can share my Wow! playlist if it'll help, or if there's morbid curiosity.
  
 Thanks for the past, present, and future advice!
  
 - Dave


----------



## SonicTrance

vipergeek said:


> OK, so it's taken me just over two weeks of evenings to get through all 150 pages of replies, but I finally did it <insert fanfare here>.  I appreciate all the time and effort everyone — especially the rock stars of the thread; and you know who you are — put into reading and responding to questions, posting their successes and funny-smelling (or shocking) failures, and providing commentary over the last 61 months.
> 
> Along the way, I've collected a wide and varied list of tube-rolling recommendations, specifically in my case, for the MK VI+:
> 
> ...


 
 From what I can tell, your DAC doesn't have balanced output, so I guess you're running RCA's to the MK6? I've never tried to run an unbalanced signal to my MK6 but I think you'd benefit to get a DAC with balanced outputs (2x3pin XLR). And I highly suggest to re-terminate your HD650's with a 4pin XLR as well. The MK6 is made to run in balanced mode and the sound difference is huge. You're only using half the amp in SE mode.
  
 As far as tubes go, it depends on how much you're willing to spend and what sound signature you like.
 A relatively cheap way to obtain great sound is to get some Chatham 6AS7G/6520's for powers and some Tung-Sol BGRP 6SL7's as drivers. Can't go wrong with those!


----------



## coinmaster

Never use an unbalanced connection with the MK6 it sounds horrible compared to balanced.


----------



## ViperGeek

sonictrance said:


> From what I can tell, your DAC doesn't have balanced output, so I guess you're running RCA's to the MK6? I've never tried to run an unbalanced signal to my MK6 but I think you'd benefit to get a DAC with balanced outputs (2x3pin XLR). And I highly suggest to re-terminate your HD650's with a 4pin XLR as well. The MK6 is made to run in balanced mode and the sound difference is huge. You're only using half the amp in SE mode.
> 
> As far as tubes go, it depends on how much you're willing to spend and what sound signature you like.
> A relatively cheap way to obtain great sound is to get some Chatham 6AS7G/6520's for powers and some Tung-Sol BGRP 6SL7's as drivers. Can't go wrong with those!


 
  
 Hi MisterX.  Thanks very much for the quick reply and suggestions.
  
 The Grace m920 (the m9XX's big brother) is, in fact, a fully balanced DAC:
  

  
 I have the two balanced 1/4" TRS outputs, called LINE OUT 2 above, connected through TRS-to-XLR cables (T→2, R→3, S→1) to the balanced inputs of the MK VI+.
  
 Regarding cabling, you're absolutely right, and I've got a Cardas replacement cable for the HD 650s, terminated with a 4-pin Neutrik XLR connector, on its way.  The LCD-2s already have the stock Audeze balanced headphone cable attached, and will be upgraded to a Cardas Clear XLR cable as soon as USPS gets here today (can't wait!).
  
 Thanks for the Tung-Sol/Chatham recommendations for driver/power tubes.  Throughout the 150 pages of posts, I initially settled on Tung-Sol, but then somewhere in the 100's got convinced that RCA was the way to go.  Later on, the Psvane fans started to chime in, which is how I ended up with all three in my bookmarks.
  
 Other comments, suggestions, and opinions of course are welcome and encouraged.  Barring any descenting opinions, I think I'll first try my first choice: the Tung-Sol 6SL7 drivers.  I had 6SL7GT's bookmarked.  Are the BGRP 6SL7's significantly different?
  
 - Dave


----------



## SonicTrance

@ViperGeek
 Aha, that's great regarding the DAC and cables for the HD650 
  
 I don't know how the TS flat plate 6SL7's sound, never heard one. I have the 6SL7, 6C8G, 6F8G and 6SU7GTY TS BGRP and they all sound very similar. Good allround tubes IMO.
  
  
 Edit: And then, when you've listened to your mk6 for a few months, check out what we're doing in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/782183/little-dot-mk8se-mk6-super-mods
 You wont regret it


----------



## ViperGeek

sonictrance said:


> Edit: And then, when you've listened to your mk6 for a few months, check out what we're doing in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/782183/little-dot-mk8se-mk6-super-mods
> You wont regret it


 
  
 Thanks man!  Yeah, @coinmaster clued me in to the near limitless options for upgrading the guts of my pretty, new MK VI+.
  
 - Dave


----------



## coinmaster

> Thanks man!  Yeah, @coinmaster clued me in to the near limitless options for upgrading the guts of my pretty, new MK VI+


 
 Be careful there, if you get too crazy or you'll end up with a broken amp. It's only "limitless" if you forgo the original design because there simply is not enough practical space on the pcb or in the chassis for too many intense mods, especially if you want to change the design of the circuitry itself as I did.
 After destroying, reverse engineering, learning, and rebuilding my MK6 and playing around in circuit simulators over the last 5 months I've learned there is a great deal of things that can be done to improve it but it will increase the size of the amplifier multiple times even with conservative parts.
 I've completely changed the input stage and I've got big plans for the output stage too.
  
 Also after spending a zillion hours trying to figure out a possible way to remove the coupling capacitor from the signal path I've managed to deduce a clever way to remove all capacitors from the signal path. I've got a list of possible configurations for this but I have verified them all in LTspice and Multisim and everything checks out, so I must experiment.
 I've ordered an oscilloscope, a signal generator, and a spectrum analyzer and I am assembling a testing lab with which I plan to test and fine tune everything over the next 6 months until I have it perfected and if it is a significant enough improvement over the mk6 then may make multiples of them and sell them as a product if people are interested enough. Gotta get somthin' for all this time, money, and effort


----------



## kaputtitall

coinmaster said:


> Gotta get somthin' for all this time, money, and effort


 
 So Mika spent countless hours on diyaudio.com trying to explain to you how your amplifier works, troubleshooting your screwups and designing circuit improvements for you so you can swing that as your accomplishments and even make money of it?
 I doubt you will be able to finish anything without further help anyways but your way of presentation is extremely low and devoid of any respect.
 No wonder you got kicked out of diyaudio.
  
 Regards,
        "kaputt"


----------



## coinmaster

I've got my own plans, the suggestions I've received thus far have been stepping stones to my end goal, I've spent a lot of time coming up with my own tweaks and designs based off of what I've learned. I'm not going to sink as low as to use someone else's design, who would be that much of a scum bag. Hence why I just spent a grand on lab equipment to spend the next half a year testing my theories. If I wanted to be a low-life I could easily save my self the trouble.
 I got kicked out of diyaudio forums because the old farts over there are a bunch of stiffs with no sense of humor and treat the internet as the most serious thing ever.
 However, I am once again going to be the better man and thank you for helping me understand what I need to know. You can go ahead and stay mad though, you guys seem to be good at that over on diyaudio.


----------



## kaputtitall

coinmaster said:


> I got kicked out of diyaudio forums because the old farts over there are a bunch of stiffs with no sense of humor and treat the internet as the most serious thing ever.


 
 It is a technical forum where engineering is discussed. You needed help with engineering. Funny cat pictures don't help questions of why parts are blowing up. Circuits have no sense of humor.
 I apologize for diyaudio members assuming that your calls for help were serious.
  
 Farewell.


----------



## coinmaster

You're proving my point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I never used any sort of funny cat picture humor on diyaudio, only legitimate questions and responses. You know full well I was serious, but the things you guys get worked up over is just sad, you have no perspective. You must be miserable irl.


----------



## Maxx134

:mad:



coinmaster said:


> You're proving my point :rolleyes: ....




Hey! Hold on there, take it easy guys.
 Listen, I have a sense of humor too! (Albeit a sarcastic one  )

Looks like you been bad coinmaster. .
So. ..
 Looks like time for some coinmaster wooping...



Past complaints not corrected :

1- Posting PMs of other out of context to DIY thread without correcting issue, 
Essentially pitting comments against each other. .

2-talking about me 
Quote:
"I really don't know, one of the dudes at head-fi.org who is obsessed with this amp told me...."

3-Belittling the hard work involved in the supermod thread without correction:
Quote:


coinmaster said:


> "My mods aren't "hard" per se, but much more involved than the "basic" mods which are simply replacing components on the board."
> 
> "... all it really is is replacing some capacitors and resistors for better ones and adding some capacitors between certain spots. .."




4- Add infinitum PM headache questions. .

And With all that being said, 
Remember I always responded to your PMs.
Because I saw in you an immense determination, and I admire that.

So,
 take my "one time flame woop-ass" with fact that I actually have no hard feelings at all, 
and only mention them because you never corrected those issues.

So one tip:
You should have more value for the written word(internet), as it is our main form of communication.

It makes no business sense to get banned anywhere.
It is neither constructive nor helpful. 
No matter what the issue was.

Ok, "flame off",
Still whish you Goodluck


----------



## coinmaster

No offense Maxx but you have an extreme tendency to completely misunderstand most things I say and take things out of context. You also are one of the people that take everything deadly serious and get upset about pointless things. It's literally pointless to communicate with you about anything. If I say something, you will hear a completely different sentence and correlate it with a totally different topic, it's like speaking another language. I treat the internet as the internet, not as real life. The audio forums are the only place on the internet that I've seen people get so uptight about everything, no doubt having something to do with the average age of people in this hobby.


> It makes no business sense to get banned anywhere.


 
 Technically I was banned because a moderator thought I was some sort of hacker for some reason I will never understand.
 Now if you'll excuse me, I got better things to do than argue with people on the internet.


----------



## ViperGeek

As a new, impressionable MK VI+ owner (who's been on an inter-net since BITNET in 1981), I sure wouldn't mind dragging this thread back on topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


sonictrance said:


> I don't know how the TS flat plate 6SL7's sound, never heard one. I have the 6SL7, 6C8G, 6F8G and 6SU7GTY TS BGRP and they all sound very similar. Good allround tubes IMO.


 
  
 Just wanted to give my tube mentor an update that I picked up a pair of:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SL7GT-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-2-Vacuum-Tubes-/381147818356?hash=item58be2e2974
  
 and have been loving them.  Even before they've burned in, I noticed quite a bit more bottom end and sparkly highs.  My balanced LCD-2s are even more mind-expanded than ever before.  I'll wait a little while before working down my Chrome bookmarks and picking up a quad of power tubes.
  
 Thanks again for the advice!
  
 - Dave


----------



## SonicTrance

vipergeek said:


> sonictrance said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know how the TS flat plate 6SL7's sound, never heard one. I have the 6SL7, 6C8G, 6F8G and 6SU7GTY TS BGRP and they all sound very similar. Good allround tubes IMO.
> ...




Thats great! 
As I'm sure you know, those are new production russian tubes. I've never heard them myself but many seems to like them. Enjoy!


----------



## ViperGeek

sonictrance said:


> If you don't want to do any modding, these will do the trick: http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-R8-80mm-Fan-2-Pack/dp/B001QYLOA4/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1451034963&sr=8-11&keywords=noctua+80mm+fan
> No need to get static pressure fans as you want high airflow, not pressure. You'll also need a 3-pin Y-splitter cable as that quote above suggests.


 
  
 I hope you don't get sick of me thanking you, but I finally worked up the guts to unscrew the 10 flush-mount Phillips screws on the bottom of my MK VI+ and swapped in the pair of Noctua fans, complete with the necessary Y-cable ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LPE1DDS FTW).  Took about 15 minutes of being overly cautious.  The result?  *What fans???* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Compared to the idling Mercedes diesel sound of the stock fans, these fans are insanely quiet.  Unless the room is perfectly quiet, I can't even hear them.  I'm absolutely amazed that Little Dot doesn't spring for the extra US $50 and install these right from the factory.
  
 Thanks, yet again, for the sage words of advice, MisterX.  It's very much appreciated.
  
 - Dave


----------



## greenkiwi

It would probably be a lot less for them...


----------



## SonicTrance

vipergeek said:


> sonictrance said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't want to do any modding, these will do the trick: http://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-R8-80mm-Fan-2-Pack/dp/B001QYLOA4/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1451034963&sr=8-11&keywords=noctua+80mm+fan
> ...


 
 Nice!
 Actually, I remember powering on my mk6 for the first time and thought: What? Fans were rattling and making all kinds of noises. In short, the stock fans are terrible, lol.


----------



## ViperGeek

vipergeek said:


> OK, so it's taken me just over two weeks of evenings to get through all 150 pages of replies, but I finally did it <insert fanfare here>.  I appreciate all the time and effort everyone — especially the rock stars of the thread; and you know who you are — put into reading and responding to questions, posting their successes and funny-smelling (or shocking) failures, and providing commentary over the last 61 months.
> 
> Along the way, I've collected a wide and varied list of tube-rolling recommendations, specifically in my case, for the MK VI+:
> 
> ...


 
  
 So I'm working down my list (can't leave success well enough alone) and started obsessing about Psvane drivers tubes.  The CV181-TII's are a bit too rich for my blood and the 6SN7-UK's have been described as "analytical" in this thread.  What I'd like to find are CV181-T's, but they're permanently sold out.  I reached out to Grant Fidelity (Psvane & Shuguang local distributor and proctor of http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store) and they had this to say:
  

```
In Little Dot the CV181-T will be used as a driver stage tube - if budget is not an issue, yes CV181-TII our best grade at $290 per pair is the best tubes. If you don't want to overkill with the budget, the Treasure CV181-Z will do just fine in this application and offer a great improvement over standard tube provided with the amp and cost almost $100 less: [url=http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-z-pair/]http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-z-pair/[/url] Hope this helps..
```
  
 so I asked which driver tubes, the CV181-Z or 6SN7-UK, would sound more smooth and rich.  Grant Fidelity replied again (they're very responsive, BTW):
  

```
The UK series is just a small step up from the regular 6SN7 but CV181-Z is a big leap....for very revealing system, I would highly recommend you to go with the CV181-Z.. it has the best bang for the buck and tons of positive reviews on internet..
```
  
 So I'm now hovering over the PayPal button for the CV181-Z's.  The *problem* is:
  
 "Note: this tube is taller and fatter than most other 6SN7. The widest part is 2″ diameter, and it is 4″ tall from base (not including the pins) up. Please check your amp to see if the tube will fit before you purchase. *The tube base is made of ceramic which is 3.5cm (about 1 3/8″) in diameter slightly larger than an average 6SN7 tube base.*"
  
 I used a caliper to measure the MK VI+ gold ring and it's 3.25cm which means the penultimate tubes (CV181-Z's) won't fit.
  
 I noticed some of you have used socket savers to install wider driver and power tubes in the past.  Does anyone have a recommendation for brand and source?  I found these on Amazon:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005IYPLH0
  
 but can't say for sure if they're any thinner than the 3.5cm CV181-Z's.
  
 Thanks!
  
 - Dave
  
 UPDATE: I just impulse-bought a pair of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/150688246271 .  The stated girth is 1.3" which is pretty darned close to the ring size for the front driver tube sockets.  Fnigers Crsosed.


----------



## SonicTrance

@ViperGeek
 Those socket savers will work fine. I've used similar myself, though I'm now using some higher quality socket savers, http://www.ebay.com/itm/191109289479?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Mostly because they look nice Socket savers are great as they "saves" the sockets and elevates the tubes so the amp doesn't get as hot.
  
 I've no experience with the Shuguang CV181-Z, though I've had both the UK-6SN7 and the CV181-T. The CV181-T's are much warmer than the UK-6SN7's and sound OK, but wont compete with the "average" NOS tube IMO.


----------



## ViperGeek

sonictrance said:


> @ViperGeek
> Those socket savers will work fine. I've used similar myself, though I'm now using some higher quality socket savers, http://www.ebay.com/itm/191109289479?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> Mostly because they look nice Socket savers are great as they "saves" the sockets and elevates the tubes so the amp doesn't get as hot.


 

  
 Wow.  Those socket savers are gorgeous.  Damn.  Now I've got *four *coming from eBay. 
  
 Oddly, Grant Fidelity wasn't too keen on socket savers:
  

```
You can simply remove the gold ring from inside of the amp and check the chassis opening diameter to see if the tube socket will fit through without the ring.. Usually we don't recommend to use socket saver - which is often made inexpensively and some even cause current leak... If you prefer to keep the ring on, you may have to look at the CV181-TII which has a smaller tube base..
```
  


sonictrance said:


> I've no experience with the Shuguang CV181-Z, though I've had both the UK-6SN7 and the CV181-T. The CV181-T's are much warmer than the UK-6SN7's and sound OK, but wont compete with the "average" NOS tube IMO.


 
  
 Interesting!  So, you're not a big fan of the Psvane & Shuguang tubes at all, or only not a fan of the 6SN7-UK's?  I'm actually looking to take the "hard edge" off my LCD-2s.  The Tung Sol 6SL7GT's really opened up the presence and tightened the bass, but now my orthos are being very critical of nothing but the best-recorded FLACs (in fact, it's not even the encoding, but rather the mastering where I notice flaws).
  
 - Dave


----------



## ViperGeek

I didn't mean to limit responses to my new best friend and mentor.  Does anyone subscribed to this thread have any strong opinions *for* or *against* Psvane & Shuguang tubes?  Now that I have Mister X's pretty gold socket savers being shipped to me from Hong Kong, I'd like to order the CV181-Z driver tubes soon so they all arrive at about the same time.
  
 - Dave


----------



## ViperGeek

I'm happy to report that my Shuguang CV181-Z driver tubes made it from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China, to New Hampshire, USA, and are currently in their first hour of 100-200 of burn-in.  So far, they sound deeper, tighter, and crisper than the Tung-Sol 6SL7GT driver tubes, but that could just be observer bias.
  
 I have a question for the avid tube-rollers on the thread/forum.  How do you store all your displaced vacuum tubes?  So far, I've been replacing tubes on the MK III and MK VI+ with same-sized tubes, and repurposing the new tube boxes as storage for the old[er] tubes, but now I've gone from smaller round tubes to Coke bottle-shaped tubes and my logical shift left of boxes and tubes won't quite work.
  
 Do you have some Tupperware container for all your old/spare tubes, or keep them in their original boxes when possible, or have some other clever storage method?  Between the two Little Dots amps, I'm amassing quite a collection of unused vacuum tubes and would like to store them in such a way as to not damage them, especially long term.
  
 Thanks!
  
 - Dave


----------



## ViperGeek

I feel like I "broke" this thread, since I've been the only one posting here for almost a month. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So, I was curious how the MK VI+ would pair up with the recently uber-popular Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00 headphones.  Being only 25 ohms, I had concerns that anything more than a Grace Design 0.1-1.2 ohm output impedance may not be able to drive them.  I dropped a note to David on LittleDot.net and he had this to say:
  


> The output impedance will be around 32 ohms on the SE and <100 ohms overall. While not technically ideal, if there is a return policy on the TH-X00 you may want to evaluate the pairing for your own ears.


 
  
Now, I'm *delighted* with the balanced performance of the MK VI+ with my LCD-2s which are rated at 50 ohms, but given the gross violation of the 8:1 inpututput impedance rule, how could this be?
  
- Dave


----------



## coinmaster

> I feel like I "broke" this thread, since I've been the only one posting here for almost a month.


 
 Most of the action is over in the mod thread now. This one has been dead ever since it was created.


----------



## ViperGeek

coinmaster said:


> > I feel like I "broke" this thread, since I've been the only one posting here for almost a month.
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the action is over in the mod thread now. This one has been dead ever since it was created.


 
  
 Thanks coinmaster!  So it's copacetic to post random n00b questions over in the mod thread?
  
 - Dave


----------



## coinmaster

Probably not unless it's related to the mods. You could technically mod your amp to accept low impedance headphones though.


----------



## Maxx134

vipergeek said:


> So, I was curious how the MK VI+ would pair up with the recently uber-popular Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00 headphones. Being only 25 ohms, I had concerns ...



I owned the Fostex th600.
It supposedly has the same or similar driver.

They are very efficient.

Furthermore, I recently heard a friends THX00 at home.

Furthermore, that friend also has a tube amp.

So from my experience, you have nothing to worry about as it plays just fine.

Personally, I still feel the TH600 is superior to the THX00, because of the larger soundstage, and ability for it to be easily moded from "U" shaped to a balanced signature, as I posted in the th600 thread long ago..

Yet the alure of the THX00 cannot be denied,
which is a slimmer form factor and the absolutely gorgeous looking wood grain cups...

Believe me, I owned a few woodie cans, and so know just how beautiful wood cups can be...


----------



## Sam-Fi

I'm selling one of these amps over in the marketplace section. It's been modded and upgraded by little dot, I'm sure someone here would love this.


----------



## baronbeehive

Just taken a trip down memory lane, nice to see the thread still live...... just!
  
 Quote:


vipergeek said:


> OK, so it's taken me just over two weeks of evenings to get through all 150 pages of replies, but I finally did it <insert fanfare here>.  ..........
> ........


 
  
 What kind of hifi nerd are you........I thought it was just me that did that kind of thing....joking 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Quote:


> .........
> 
> Along the way, I've collected a wide and varied list of tube-rolling recommendations, specifically in my case, for the MK VI+:
> 
> ...


  
  I would go with SonicTrance's advice, the TS6SL7BGRP is a great, detailed tube with beautiful smooth and silky sound that you can't really get anywhere else, except perhaps the RCA's but they aren't quite so good though I like them, good, cheap, entry level tubes.
  
 I agree again I wouldn't go with the new issue tubes such as the Psvanes, although they are probably the best new issues , but all new issues to me don't have that depth of sound of NOS tubes.
  
 Re: the power tubes, the 5998 family are undoubtedly the best, most musical and detailed, however the cheap and nice RCA 6AS7G's are very widely used and respected, giving a warm sound but not as detailed. Bendix 6080WB graphite plate are one of the best for detail and separation while still sounding musical but like all the best tubes are getting expensive.
  
 Quote:


sonictrance said:


> @ViperGeek
> Aha, that's great regarding the DAC and cables for the HD650
> 
> I don't know how the TS flat plate 6SL7's sound, never heard one. I have the 6SL7, 6C8G, 6F8G and 6SU7GTY TS BGRP and they all sound very similar. Good allround tubes IMO.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the mods thread is keeping interest in the LD, the problem with the LD's is the lack of reviews so its difficult. I have heard a flat plate TS and they're very ordinary and to be avoided.
  


vipergeek said:


> Just wanted to give my tube mentor an update that I picked up a pair of:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-6SL7GT-Cryo-Treated-Matched-Pair-2-Vacuum-Tubes-/381147818356?hash=item58be2e2974
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your new issue TS's will sound reasonably good but not a patch on the NOS RP TS's. Also I see llittle point in cryoing new issue tubes really.
  
 Enjoy your LD, good to see continued interest in these fantastic amps!


----------



## ViperGeek

baronbeehive said:


> Just taken a trip down memory lane, nice to see the thread still live...... just!
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  
 The best kind: a Head-Fi fanatic.  Love this site and love the Little Dots.  The MK VI+ sits proudly right next to my "gateway" Little Dot: the MK III.
  


> I would go with SonicTrance's advice, the TS6SL7BGRP is a great, detailed tube with beautiful smooth and silky sound that you can't really get anywhere else, except perhaps the RCA's but they aren't quite so good though I like them, good, cheap, entry level tubes.
> 
> I agree again I wouldn't go with the new issue tubes such as the Psvanes, although they are probably the best new issues , but all new issues to me don't have that depth of sound of NOS tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the seconded opinion on the Tung-Sol 6SL7.  One of the nuances that continues to escape this n00b is the modifier letters at the end of a tube designation.  For example, what's the difference between a TS 6SL7GT and 6SL7BGRP?  Is there a decoder ring website I can reference to determine the differences?  Also, descriptions like "black plate" and "flat plate" confuse me, but perhaps that's a stupid question for a different post.
  
 Since my last post, I've also picked up a quad of NOS RCA 6AS7G from the mid 50's.  Initially (to my ear), the difference in power tubes was much more subtle than the difference from rolling driver tubes.  But what I've notice over a dozen hours of listening is that I'm more willing to crank up the volume than I was with the stock power tubes.  I've been told that the brain confuses harshness with loudness, and if that's true, then the 6AS7G's are much, much smoother and "analog" than the stock tubes, which IMO is an awesome improvement.
  
 Thanks again for taking the time to swing by this old thread and help a new LD fan.
  
 - Dave


----------



## SonicTrance

Hi Dave,
  
 When we write BGRP, we mean "black glass round plates". Meaning the tubes glass is black and the plates (anodes) are round.
 You can see it in this pic:

 You see those two round grey plates above.
  
 Down below you see the 6C8G version of TS BGRP.


----------



## ViperGeek

sonictrance said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> When we write BGRP, we mean "black glass round plates". Meaning the tubes glass is black and the plates (anodes) are round.
> You can see it in this pic:
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the acronym expansion and sample pictures!  They're very much appreciated.
  
 So, if I'm scouring the ol' interwebs for these, will the description state "black glass" and/or "round plate", or must I ask the average eBay'er for this level of detail?
  
 - Dave


----------



## SonicTrance

You should be able to tell from the pics if not advertised in the auction. It's great if you can learn how the different constructions look. That way you can do bargains when the seller doesn't know what he got.


----------



## baronbeehive

vipergeek said:


> ...........
> Since my last post, I've also picked up a quad of NOS RCA 6AS7G from the mid 50's.  Initially (to my ear), the difference in power tubes was much more subtle than the difference from rolling driver tubes.  But what I've notice over a dozen hours of listening is that I'm more willing to crank up the volume than I was with the stock power tubes.  I've been told that the brain confuses harshness with loudness, and if that's true, then the 6AS7G's are much, much smoother and "analog" than the stock tubes, which IMO is an awesome improvement.
> 
> Thanks again for taking the time to swing by this old thread and help a new LD fan.
> ...


 
  
 Glad to help, we were noobs once! That's absolutely right about the smoothness of the RCA's which you  noticed, quite subtle but very much more musical. Driver tubes are much more noticeable than power tubes in terms of sound. For example if you want a warm sound go for the RCA power tubes and then tweek that with the driver tubes depending on what sound you want.
  


vipergeek said:


> Thanks for the acronym expansion and sample pictures!  They're very much appreciated.
> 
> So, if I'm scouring the ol' interwebs for these, will the description state "black glass" and/or "round plate", or must I ask the average eBay'er for this level of detail?
> 
> - Dave


 
  
  


sonictrance said:


> You should be able to tell from the pics if not advertised in the auction. It's great if you can learn how the different constructions look. That way you can do bargains when the seller doesn't know what he got.


 
  
 As SonicTrance says the best way is to look at the pictures in close up on ebay and you will soon be able to tell the difference between black glass round plate or flat plate, or "t" plate, or tall glass or short glass, or short base or long base etc., just by looking although it will usually be in the description.
  
 Similarly GT, GTA, GTB or other designations all denote slightly different things such as plate voltage, or VT231 which are military versions of 6SN7's.
  
 All things which you can pick up fairly easily 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ViperGeek

Thanks again for the informative and friendly replies.  I was able to find BGRP's on eBay (there's even a dedicated /bhp URL):
  
 http://www.ebay.com/bhp/tung-sol-round-plate
  
 I hadn't realized how expensive these vintage NOS tubes were.  I'll have to groove to my "NNS" Tung-Sol and CV181-Z driver tubes for a little while longer while I save my pennies.
  
 Why is the best-sounding stuff always the most expensive?  (Yes, that's a rhetorical question).
  
 Roll on!
  
 - Dave


----------



## ViperGeek

I have a related question regarding 6SL7/6SN7 driver tube usage in the Little Dot MK VI+.
  
 I noticed my bookmarks have a slightly uneven mix of the two, with the 6SN7 being more common (again, in my bookmarks).  During my research of the differences between the high mu (70) 6SL7 and medium mu (20) 6SN7, I found multiple instances where "Internet experts" claimed that these are not necessarily interchangeable.
  
 Other than a noticeable decrease in volume when swapping out the Tung-Sol 6SL7GTs for the CV181-Zs (6SN7 equivalent), I haven't experienced any problems, What makes the MK VI+ so versatile that it can drive either the high gain 6SL7s or the medium gain 6SN7s without bursting into flames?
  
 UPDATE: Further research seems to indicate that, in general, you can replace high gain factor tubes (e.g. 6SL7/ECC35) with lower gain factor tubes (e.g. 6SN7/ECC32), but not the other way around.  Since the PDF for the Little Dot MK VI+ states "Can be replaced with ECC35 (confirmed)", I suspect reason we can use 6SN7s is precisely because lowering the gain factor is safe(r) than raising it.
  
 - Dave


----------



## goreshade

Is the MK 6+ suitable for k701 ? I've heard some people said that the SE output on mk 6+ is noisy. Is that true ?
  
 Has anyone tried Mk 9 ? Is it capable of delivering enough current for K701 ?


----------



## Sam-Fi

goreshade said:


> Is the MK 6+ suitable for k701 ? I've heard some people said that the SE output on mk 6+ is noisy. Is that true ?
> 
> Has anyone tried Mk 9 ? Is it [COLOR=545454]capable of delivering enough current for K701 ?[/COLOR]




The mk 9 is great I have the k7xx so they are more like the 712 so, with the slightest looseness on the bass notes compared to your 701, and I have to conclude the 712 and any of the k7xx series run really great with the mk9.


----------



## Wolvebain

I just got my Little Dot mk VI+ a few days ago. And what a beauty!
  
 Still stock tubes, but looking to upgrade [suggestions welcomed] I'm in South Africa, and am looking for tubes that can be shipped to me via expedited shipping [Fedex/DHL/etc]
  
 My headphones are:

HD650
Q701 [bass-port and balanced modded]
HD800S [recent purchase]
HE-560 [recent purchase, to arrive soon]
  
 The HD650 & Q701 will prob be on their way out, in favor of the newer HD800S & HE-560.
  
 HD800S impression on the stock tubes are not bad; good sound stage, nice mids, but bright and very lean bass.


----------



## ViperGeek

wolvebain said:


> I just got my Little Dot mk VI+ a few days ago. And what a beauty!
> 
> Still stock tubes, but looking to upgrade [suggestions welcomed] I'm in South Africa, and am looking for tubes that can be shipped to me via expedited shipping [Fedex/DHL/etc]
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Wolvebain.
  
 If you scroll up a few pages to my initial inquiry about tubes for the MK VI+:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/2235#post_12203881
  
 there have been lots of great advice shared by the seasoned experts about the various tube rolling options for our beloved Little Dot.  Additionally, my personal opinion on warmer, smoother power tubes was shared here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/522099/little-dot-mk-vi-little-dot-mk-viii-se-owners-unite/2265#post_12360616
  
 "Since my last post, I've also picked up a quad of NOS RCA 6AS7G from the mid 50's.  Initially (to my ear), the difference in power tubes was much more subtle than the difference from rolling driver tubes.  But what I've notice over a dozen hours of listening is that I'm more willing to crank up the volume than I was with the stock power tubes.  I've been told that the brain confuses harshness with loudness, and if that's true, then the 6AS7G's are much, much smoother and "analog" than the stock tubes, which IMO is an awesome improvement."
  
 I'd look to consider rolling some 6SN7-family driver tubes and NOS RCA 6AS7G power tubes to mellow out your HD800S's and see how you like it.  IMO, driver tubes make the biggest difference, but as I quoted above, the NOS RCA power tubes really mellowed any perceived harshness I had experienced.
  
 - Dave


----------



## Wolvebain

Thanks Dave.
  
 I have read your posts regarding the RCA 6AS7G power tubes... Very helpful, and has caused me to hunt these tubes 
 You are spot-on with me wanting to 'mellow out' the brightness of the HD800S, and wanting to add more bottom-end to them.
  
 I've been corresponding with Brent from AudioTubes.com on a quad matched set of RCA 6AS7G.  I hope he has stock of some NOS.
 Unfortunately, the only ship via USPS EMS express, and if I'm lucky, may only get them within 4 weeks from collection/drop-off 
  
 If you can suggest other places I may source the NOS RCA 6AS7G power tubes from, I'd be very grateful.  [ looking at the shipping option of the https://tubedepot.com/products/6sl7gt-rca now ]


----------



## Wolvebain

I just purchased these quad matched NOS RCA 6AS7G from eBay:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/322090983219
  
 Hope they are a good buy, as I had to pay a lot for shipping...
  
 What do you say?


----------



## ViperGeek

wolvebain said:


> I just purchased these quad matched NOS RCA 6AS7G from eBay:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/322090983219
> 
> Hope they are a good buy, as I had to pay a lot for shipping...
> ...


 
  
 As long as they're matched and still have some life left, I think you made a good purchase.  I bought mine off of eBay too:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252252178741
  
 - Dave


----------



## Wolvebain

Thanks @ViperGeek; much appreciated bud.
  
 I was considering going for the Bendix 6080, but at USD.175 a pop, it was getting a bit too hectic for my taste
  
 I see  you mentioned the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z pre-amp tubes, which is a 6SN7 tube and not a 6SL7 which the manual says is a viable replacement for the 6H9C.
 I assume from your posts that they work, and work well. 
  
 Should I get a matched pair, like these: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z Vacuum tube pair Collection Version
  
6SN7 
 Or should I get one of the below pairs instead?

6SU7GTY Tung Sol USA military stock $199.00 per pair [ www.audiotubes.com ]
6SL7WGT Sylvania made brownbase $80.00 per pair [ www.audiotubes.com ]
5691 RCA redbase, $160.00 per pair [ www.audiotubes.com ]
6SL7GT RCA


----------



## ViperGeek

wolvebain said:


> Thanks @ViperGeek; much appreciated bud.
> 
> I was considering going for the Bendix 6080, but at USD.175 a pop, it was getting a bit too hectic for my taste
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm glad I can pay back some of the knowledge and experience I gained from this 153-page, 2294-post thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, the 6SN7-like CV181-Z's work great in my system.  Due to their width, they require socket savers to fit.  They also lower the output volume for a given knob position slightly, but since I've always had plenty of ear-splitting volume left on the dial, this has never been a problem for me.  And even if it were, the Gain Control DIP switches inside can boost the output even further.
  
 While I love my Shuguang Treasure driver tubes, others on this thread have preferred other options (RCA NOS, Tung Sol, etc.).  I will say that the Tung Sol 6SN7GT's are on my short list, but I'll have to rob a bank to afford them.
  
 I'd roll one tube at a time, enjoy the post-burn-in delight for a while, then try a different set of driver tubes and see what you like best.  Drivers *do *make the biggest difference, so you should be able to tell pretty quickly (after burn-in) which sound you prefer.  Or perhaps you'll end up rolling different tubes for different cans.
  
 Have fun!
  
 - Dave
  
 ps. I obtained my CV181-Z's straight from Psvane:
  
      http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-z-pair/ 
  
      This may be an authorized North American regional seller though, but I'd be cautious when dealing with unauthorized third party resellers.


----------



## Wolvebain

Thanks for the info bud...
  
 I have been checking out the Psvane CV181-T Mark II's as they seem to have a better bottom end, and reduce the brightness of too bright set-ups... which is really appealing for my set-up.
  
 Link #1: http://www.amazon.com/Matched-Psvane-CV181-T-Premium-Treasure/dp/B00N4L28HK
 Link #2: http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/cv181-tii-pair/
  
 Think I should pull the trigger?
  
 Now.. to find some 8pin to 8pin  socket savers that are black or bronze/gold color


----------



## Wolvebain

So I bit the bullet, and purchased both the '6SN7 Octal socket​spacer pair', that  ViperGeek suggested, as well as a 'Matched Pair Psvane CV181-T Mark II Vacuum Tube New Premium Grade Treasure Tubes'... both from suzier.inc
  
 Hopefully they, and the match quad set of NOS RCA 6AS7G tubes arrive quickly 
  
 Thank again ViperGeek!
  
 I'll post some feedback on their performance, after some burn-in time.


----------



## ViperGeek

wolvebain said:


> So I bit the bullet, and purchased both the '6SN7 Octal socket​spacer pair', that  ViperGeek suggested, as well as a 'Matched Pair Psvane CV181-T Mark II Vacuum Tube New Premium Grade Treasure Tubes'... both from suzier.inc
> 
> Hopefully they, and the match quad set of NOS RCA 6AS7G tubes arrive quickly
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow.  You went _*all in*_!  Congratulations.
  
 Keep us posted on your opinions, especially after burn-in.  As you probably read, the CV181 series takes quite a few hours to fully burn in (some say 100 hours), but that's part of the fun.  I think your 6AS7G's will really mellow out your HD800s and the CV181-T's will add clarity and authority without harshness that only a high powered balanced tube amp can deliver.
  
 - Dave


----------



## Wolvebain

The Psvane CV181-T Mark II's arrived today... Still have need time to burn-in, but I can say that the bass is a lot harder & faster 
  




  
 Didn't seem to need the socket-spacers.. fitted in great
  
 Highly anticipating the arrival of the quad matched NOS RCA 6AS7G set...


----------



## ViperGeek

wolvebain said:


> The Psvane CV181-T Mark II's arrived today... Still have need time to burn-in, but I can say that the bass is a lot harder & faster


 
 Gorgeous tubes.  I'm glad you like the sound.  They'll probably get slightly worse, then over time, much, much better.  Enjoy!
  


wolvebain said:


> Didn't seem to need the socket-spacers.. fitted in great


 
 Ah, yes.  Sorry about the confusion.  The CV181-Z driver tubes I purchased state:
  
 "The tube base is made of ceramic which is 3.5cm (about 1 3/8″) in diameter; slightly larger than an average 6SN7 tube base."
  
 which is why I needed the tube savers.  The higher end CV181-T Mk II have a standard base that fits in the Little Dot MK VI+ just fine.
  
 Perhaps they'll come in handy in the future as you roll different driver tubes.  The sickness of being a tube amp owner is that we're never satisfied with only one set of tubes.  There's always a better (or different sounding) tube just over the horizon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 - Dave


----------



## Wolvebain

Loving the sound now!
  
 Here's a picture from my local headphone meet over the weekend:


----------



## MAURO16164

I am excited about a new owner of the Little Dot mkvi+ and I would like some advice from you for the valves change, since you own it for years. for driver told me to buy the PSVANE 181 tii but for the power tubes what do you recommend? I am waiting for your valuable advice


----------



## MAURO16164

I am excited about a new owner of the Little Dot and I would like some advice from you for the valves change, since you own it for years. for driver told me to buy the PSVANE 181 tii but for the power tubes what do you recommend? I am waiting for your valuable advice


----------



## Maxx134

mauro16164 said:


> I am excited about a new owner of the Little Dot and I would like some advice from you for the valves change, since you own it for years. for driver told me to buy the PSVANE 181 tii but for the power tubes what do you recommend? I am waiting for your valuable advice



Ask / PM member SonicTrance. 

PSVANE is very pretty, but it is new production , not "new Old Stock (NOS).
Generally NOS is best way to go. 
Tube manufacturers in 50s & 60s were the absolute best. 
Many manufacturing secrets died with the companies, and generally speaking, most today new stock is good, but not superior to old stock. 

I have similar New production tube types like these :

As they are easy to find and nice, 
Whith a full midrange, 
But depending what tonality you want, 
Old stock can be cheaper and better, particularly the Silvana 6sn7 types, which are generally brighter. 

But for power tubes, actually just read back a few pages. 

So personally, 
I would not buy the PSVANE right away, although it is probably better now, costs still a bit expensive at about 200 new. 

I would try used old stock at lower pricess so you can "tube roll" to see which you prefer...


----------



## MAURO16164

thank you man.i bought in a bid ebay 2 RCA 5691 red base nos and 4 RCA 6AS7G nos. What do you think of this combo?


----------



## Maxx134

I have modified mk8 which now use mk6 driver and mk8 power tubes,
So I cannot comment about mk6 setup but try read this thread I remember slot of good posts here


----------



## rudra

Does the MK VI+ balanced HP amp convert SE input to balanced output or is it balanced only on the balanced input.


----------



## Maxx134

rudra said:


> Does the MK VI+ balanced HP amp convert SE input to balanced output or is it balanced only on the balanced input.



Yes it does have SE input check out little dot. Website.


----------



## nuport

I just picked up a used MK VI+ and with the stock tubes it came with I think it definitely has potential. However, when I turn the volume knob past the 9'oclock position without anything playing I can hear a bit of hum. Is this normal? Or could it be tube related or maybe something with my source component?


----------



## MAURO16164

I would like to ask a question from "profane". 2 v meters on the little dot used to measure the bias, right? Now, if both the top I marked 60-62, the left one begins to flicker even down to 30 and then up or falling back, depending on how the turns ... I tried to reverse the valves, both those of power that driver, but to no avail. The v Left meters it's not clear how it works. in audio level not known differences between the two channels. what can it be? thank you and good Sunday .. P.S tubes currently used are 4 Raytheon 6AS7G and 2 RCA red plate 5691,,


----------



## rudra

maxx134 said:


> Yes it does have SE input check out little dot. Website.


 
 Thanks!. David said that RCA input won't be converted to balanced output,
  
  
 Also have people mix and matched tubes!  (for e.g. 6AS7G with 5998 or 7236 )


----------



## rudra

can 6SN7 tubes used in place of 6H9C


----------



## kazcou

6H9C is a russian version of 6SL7, but you can use 6SN7 without issue.


----------



## rudra

kazcou said:


> 6H9C is a russian version of 6SL7, but you can use 6SN7 without issue.


 
 Thank you. does it need an adapter.


----------



## kazcou

_6SN7 and 6SL7 have the _same _pinout_, but 6SN7 has less gain than 6SL7.


----------



## rudra

kazcou said:


> _6SN7 and 6SL7 have the _same _pinout_, but 6SN7 has less gain than 6SL7.


 

 Sorry, I don't know much about tubes. is that good or bad thing


----------



## kazcou

A 6SL7 will give you a more saturated (warm) sound than a 6SN7.


----------



## nuport

Is anyone using a preamp with their amp? Any risk in plugging an Oppo HA-1 into this? I would like to be able to use multiple sources.


----------



## greenkiwi

I don't see any risk doing that. It's not really any different than plugging a DAC in


----------



## ViperGeek

nuport said:


> Is anyone using a preamp with their amp? Any risk in plugging an Oppo HA-1 into this? I would like to be able to use multiple sources.


 
  
 Agreed.  Front-ending the MK VI+/VIII with a preamp is fine, and probably recommended.  I have a Grace Design m920 driving the balanced inputs of a MK VI+ and it works great.  If possible, set up the preamp for "unity gain" to avoid having two volume controls (and associated attenuation) in series.
  
 - Dave


----------



## ViperGeek

rudra said:


> can 6SN7 tubes used in place of 6H9C


 
  
 As kazcou said, you can replace high gain factor tubes (e.g. 6SL7/6H9C/ECC35) with lower gain factor tubes (e.g. 6SN7/ECC32), but not the other way around.  Since the PDF for the Little Dot MK VI+ states "Can be replaced with ECC35 (confirmed)", you can use 6SN7s because lowering the gain factor -- resulting in a slight decrease in volume -- is safe.  I have CV181-Zs (6SN7 equivalent) in mine and they sound great.
  
 - Dave


----------



## rudra

thanks dave.did ur amp come without the fans. i have been told that the newer units dont come with the fan and that the se socket is on the front panel


----------



## kazcou

I do not know what about Fan, but about the single ended socket :
post_9784642


----------



## ViperGeek

rudra said:


> thanks dave.did ur amp come without the fans. i have been told that the newer units dont come with the fan and that the se socket is on the front panel


 
  
 Hi Rudra.
  
 Yes, mine came with fairly noisy fans that I very quickly swapped out for:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001QYLOA4 + https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LPE1DDS
  
 And yes, nowadays the SE jack is on the front:
  

  
 which is significantly better than when it was around back.
  
 - Dave


----------



## rudra

Thanks Dave. I have ordered one with mundorf caps.


----------



## ViperGeek

rudra said:


> Thanks Dave. I have ordered one with mundorf caps.


 
  
 Congratulations!  Let us know what you think of the big Little Dot.
  
 I see you have HD 650s.  Be sure to get a (Cardas) balanced headphone cable for them.  You've never heard them as good as when they're driven balanced by the MK VI+.
  
 - Dave


----------



## rudra

vipergeek said:


> Congratulations!  Let us know what you think of the big Little Dot.
> 
> I see you have HD 650s.  Be sure to get a (Cardas) balanced headphone cable for them.  You've never heard them as good as when they're driven balanced by the MK VI+.
> 
> - Dave


 







I am waiting for the DHC Nucleotide V3 balanced cable for the HD 650s. It is in transit


----------



## nuport

Beautiful amp!


----------



## Maxx134

mauro16164 said:


> I would like to ask a question from "profane". 2 v meters on the little dot used to measure the bias, right? Now, if both the top I marked 60-62, the left one begins to flicker even down to 30 and then up or falling back, depending on how the turns ... I tried to reverse the valves, both those of power that driver, but to no avail. The v Left meters it's not clear how it works. in audio level not known differences between the two channels. what can it be? thank you and good Sunday .. P.S tubes currently used are 4 Raytheon 6AS7G and 2 RCA red plate 5691,,



Will need to clarify and shorten the question.

Try swapping both the power tubes from one side to the other.

If you have sound issue with volume, maybe need clean driver tube pins l and also try tube on other side.

Also, the left meter is supposed to turn on first at 30ma, before the right side turn on, then after both at 60ma.


----------



## eserafinojr

Also sounds like one of those power tubes could be on the way out.
  
 Try swapping tubes until you isolate the bad tube/s.
  
 It will be hard to tell which is the culprit if it's more than one bad tube unless you had a couple of spare 6AS7G's on hand to swap until you don't get the drop in current.
  
 I agree with the previous poster it's good to keep the pins clean but generally it shouldn't make a huge difference.
  
 I also recommend owning even a basic tube tester if you're into tube amps as that will help you verify your tubes are in working order when you buy them but also to check on them over time.
  
 Especially if you are a tube roller and own more than 1 tube amp.
  
 I have 4 testers since I am a tube enthusiast/collector I rely on my testers to help me evaluate new acquisitions/selling and to check up on my inventory.
  
 Good luck and hopefully you get it fixed!


----------



## rudra

Silly question
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but is it possible to have to different 6SN7 tubes. I have read some people have mixed power tubes.


----------



## eserafinojr

Technically yes but the sound signature and even the gain will be different from the left or right channel with mixing driver tubes.
  
 I wouldn't recommend using 2 totally different types of driver tubes for that reason. Especially if one is weak the amp is going to work harder to squeeze as many electrons out of it as possible.
  
 Power tubes also wouldn't recommend mixing them for multiple reasons.
  
 Most obviously because of the different Emission and Plate Current Specifications, Amplification Factor and inner tube electrical characteristics which are different. Which long term could be harmful to the amp for biasing reasons and the transformer.
  
 Which is why it's ideal to have all 4 power tubes as closely matched as possible. Sound wise you won't hear that much if any difference if the power tubes are not matched, but it's better for healthy amp operation.
  
 On the MK8 you're limited to just the 6N30P or the lower power 6N6. So stick to either or in all 4 sockets.
  
 The MK6 you can use a 5998, 421A, 6080, 7236, 6AS7, 6520, 2399, 6N13C/6N5C etc. etc.
  
 Use one of the aforementioned types in all 4 sockets.
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## rudra

eserafinojr said:


> Technically yes but the sound signature and even the gain will be different from the left or right channel with mixing driver tubes.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend using 2 totally different types of driver tubes for that reason. Especially if one is weak the amp is going to work harder to squeeze as many electrons out of it as possible.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks it helps.
  
 I have several single 6SN7 variants(5692, VT-231[Sylvania, Tungsol, Ken Rad, RCA]) that I recently purchased for use with the DV 336SE which I would like to use with LD MKVI+, so does it matter that both driver tubes need to be matched. TIA


----------



## MAURO16164

I own 4 power tubes nos Raytheon 6AS7G and 2 drivers tubes nos RCA 5691 red base.unfortunately the left bias is up and down discontinuously. only after about one hour of operation stabilizes. not known sonic differences between the two channels.


----------



## coinmaster

Mixing tubes is fine and sound better then just using the same type tubes. However both channels should have the same tube configuration and you need to test it with the different tubes in both slots because one slot configuration will always sound bad for some reason I haven't been able to figure out.
 As for is it bad for the amp to mix tubes. No, its resistor auto bias, nothing bad can happen as long as you stick to 6080/6as7 tubes. There's no "Working harder to squeeze out more electrons" or whatever, it works according to the impedance set by the bias which is going to be the same no matter if the tube is weak or not due to  the resistor auto bias and integrator grid bias.


----------



## eserafinojr

rudra said:


> Thanks it helps.
> 
> I have several single 6SN7 variants(5692, VT-231[Sylvania, Tungsol, Ken Rad, RCA]) that I recently purchased for use with the DV 336SE which I would like to use with LD MKVI+, so does it matter that both driver tubes need to be matched. TIA


 
  
 As long as it's a 6SN7/6SL7 type it _will work_ just fine.
  
 Ideally you want to use 2 driver tubes of the same type/ construction for a consistent sound signature.
  
 You could technically put an RCA Red 5691 or 5692 in the left channel and a TS 6SN7GTB or Sylvania WWII VT-231 in the right channel and it would work but both channels won't have the exact same sound characteristics.
  
 It would make for an interesting experiment though!


----------



## rudra

Got my MK VI+. currently running 7236 power tubes with the 6H9C tube. Will change the driver tubes to 6SN7WGT sylvania's in the next week as soon as I receive them. Quite a step up from the darkvoice. Listening to HD650 balanced the sound is great. Better dynamics, separation and 3D sound.


----------



## rudra

Anyone want to chime in on the use of  socket savers. I have two with me which I plan to use with the driver tubes. I am trying to get myself two more  sets of power tubes that I would like to change may be once in 2-3 months just to mix things up. Any benefit in using socket savers in the power tube sockets. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## ViperGeek

rudra said:


> Anyone want to chime in on the use of  socket savers. I have two with me which I plan to use with the driver tubes. I am trying to get myself two more  sets of power tubes that I would like to change may be once in 2-3 months just to mix things up. Any benefit in using socket savers in the power tube sockets.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 Hi Rudra.
  
 As you probably saw in my previous post, I use socket savers as socket "extenders" to fit my fatty CV181-Z driver tubes, but plug power tubes in directly.  The sockets on the MK VI+ are pretty rugged, so I don't think they'd require socket savers, even if you're a high tube roller.  Originally (as I understand it), socket savers were designed for tube testers who used to have tubes inserted and yanked by the general public dozens of times a day, every day.
  
 Be sure to use high quality socket savers, and make sure all the pins are clean and tight, to avoid pin contact resistance.  I use DeoxIT Contact Cleaner to clean and DeoxIT GOLD to prep the pins before inserting a new tube or socket saver.  Possibly overkill, but also cheap insurance.
  
 - Dave


----------



## rudra

vipergeek said:


> Hi Rudra.
> 
> As you probably saw in my previous post, I use socket savers as socket "extenders" to fit my fatty CV181-Z driver tubes, but plug power tubes in directly.  The sockets on the MK VI+ are pretty rugged, so I don't think they'd require socket savers, even if you're a high tube roller.  Originally (as I understand it), socket savers were designed for tube testers who used to have tubes inserted and yanked by the general public dozens of times a day, every day.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your input  Dave. I do use Deoxit  with all my tube when I first get them. Instead of the D5S-6 i use the DeoxIT® brush applicator (#D100L-2DB)
  
 As for the socket savers I will be using this


----------



## ViperGeek

rudra said:


> As for the socket savers I will be using this


 
  
 Good call.  Those are the exact ones I use for my driver tubes.  So far, no problems whatsoever, and the gold rings match the brushed gold on the MK VI+ almost perfectly.
  
 - Dave


----------



## rudra

Has anyone got around to using a *EL3N* tube with adapter on the MK VI+. If some one has could you please chime in with your experience.


----------



## kazcou

rudra said:


> Has anyone got around to using a *EL3N* tube with adapter on the MK VI+. If some one has could you please chime in with your experience.


 

 Someone on Feliks Audio Elise thread gave a feedback on this EL3N
12871765


----------



## rudra

Can someone who has a Bendix or Chantham 6080WA graphite plates let me know what should read in mA. I purchased 4 tubes and I get different readings(one side reads 30 mA and the other side reads 60 mA). Also the protection circuit kicks in. It seem one or more tubes are bad. Trying to figure out how I go about identifying the dodgy ones.


----------



## SonicTrance

rudra said:


> Can someone who has a Bendix or Chantham 6080WA graphite plates let me know what should read in mA. I purchased 4 tubes and I get different readings(one side reads 30 mA and the other side reads 60 mA). Also the protection circuit kicks in. It seem one or more tubes are bad. Trying to figure out how I go about identifying the dodgy ones.




The meters should read around 60mA. Try swapping, one tube at a time, from the 30mA channel to the 60mA channel. Then you'll see if you have one or two bad tubes. 
You could also measure the voltage drop across the cathode resistors. That will tell you instantly which tube(s) are bad. 

If the protection circuit kicks in the meters read 0mA, so I don't understand that. For a tube to trigger the protection circuit it needs to have a near dead short.


----------



## eserafinojr

FWIW my MK6+ reads around 38mA but I got the factory upgraded caps and my power tubes, WE421A/5998s are all matched within 3% Emission and Gm.

Inserting matched quad of TS7236s gives me the same result.

My drivers are Raytheon 5694s, National Union Sound X/tra 6N7Gs or Sylvania Metal Base 6SL7Ws.

I run my MK6 on low gain and it sounds fantastic with tons of power. I also run it with the Little Dot 500 power supply so between that and the factory upgraded caps is probably why my unit runs in the 36-40mA per channel range.

No issues at all and mine doesnt run at the usual 60mA.


----------



## SonicTrance

eserafinojr said:


> FWIW my MK6+ reads around 38mA but I got the factory upgraded caps and my power tubes, WE421A/5998s are all matched within 3% Emission and Gm.
> 
> Inserting matched quad of TS7236s gives me the same result.
> 
> ...




If you put some 6AS7/6080's in your amp they will run at 60mA. The cathode resistors sets the current of your output tubes, caps doesn't matter. 
You can run your 5998/421A's at 60mA too with much improved SQ. I made a guide in the mod thread.


----------



## rudra

sonictrance said:


> The meters should read around 60mA. Try swapping, one tube at a time, from the 30mA channel to the 60mA channel. Then you'll see if you have one or two bad tubes.
> You could also measure the voltage drop across the cathode resistors. That will tell you instantly which tube(s) are bad.
> 
> If the protection circuit kicks in the meters read 0mA, so I don't understand that. For a tube to trigger the protection circuit it needs to have a near dead short.


 
 I found the offending tube. The problem is that when I replace the faulty Chatham with the stock tube both the meter read close to 62 mA but I get no sound from either the SE/Balanced output. I bummed as to why the sound is not coming
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. If I use the stock Thomson 6080WC or 7236 tubes the audio plays fine. When I use quad 7236 the meter reads 40mA on both sides. The stock tubes read about 62 mA.
  
 Left meter reading:

  
 Right meter reading:


----------



## SonicTrance

@rudra
 Those meter readings are good! 
 Very strange that you don't get any sound. More tubes must be bad.


----------



## eserafinojr

sonictrance said:


> If you put some 6AS7/6080's in your amp they will run at 60mA. The cathode resistors sets the current of your output tubes, caps doesn't matter.
> You can run your 5998/421A's at 60mA too with much improved SQ. I made a guide in the mod thread.


 
  
 Cool. Thanks for pointing that out. But If it requires me opening up my MK6+ and soldering which I'm not very good at, I'll unfortunately have to pass as I don't want to brick this beautiful amp!!
  
 Especially since it cost a decent amount more since it's outfitted with high grade caps throughout and dead silent fans from the factory.
  
 I had a WA22 previously and the finish of the WA22 is nicer with thicker metal but the MK6 IMHO is a better built and better sounding amplifier. And the analog meters look great as with all Little Dot amps with the MK6's form factor like the X1 and MK8SE.
  


rudra said:


> I found the offending tube. The problem is that when I replace the faulty Chatham with the stock tube both the meter read close to 62 mA but I get no sound from either the SE/Balanced output. I bummed as to why the sound is not coming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm terribly sorry to hear about that. Yes, you likely still have bad tubes.
  
 And as ST pointed out to me as well. The 6080 will run at the full 60mA.
  
 My Late 50s NOS TS 7236's run at 40 and my Early 50s Pale Grey Plate WE "421A/5998"s run at 38mA.
  
 Both sound fantastic with tons of power and no issues with sound. The tubes are likely bad.
  
 The 7236 has great dynamics and sounds a little more dry and "tighter" where as the 421A/5998s have more top and bottom extension but are slightly looser sounding.
  
 Overall my favorites are the Western Electrics.
  
 I have a large stash of 7236s, I would be happy to loan/sell somebody a matched quad. Amplitrex Tested.
  
 BTW has anybody modded their MK6 to handle the extra current draw of the TS/Cetron or Raytheon 6336, 6336A, CK6336 or the 6528 power tubes?
  
 They have the same pinout of the 6AS7/6080, run at 6.3Vs but draw much more current so I doubt the MK6 could handle them without frying it or shorting something!!


----------



## rudra

@SonicTrance and @eserafinojr thanks for your advice. In the end it turned out that 2 out of the 4 tubes were dud. Disappointed(the shipping cost of the duds back to the USA from Oz is a real kicker) but the seller has agreed to replace.


----------



## eserafinojr

rudra said:


> @SonicTrance and @eserafinojr thanks for your advice. In the end it turned out that 2 out of the 4 tubes were dud. Disappointed(the shipping cost of the duds back to the USA from Oz is a real kicker) but the seller has agreed to replace.


 
  
 Of course and I'm happy to hear it worked out with the seller.
  
 Good luck. Hopefully you'll get them soon!
  
 I think you'll really enjoy the 7236s..
  
 They have this very tight, dry and extremely dynamic solid state-esque sound signature.


----------



## SonicTrance

> BTW has anybody modded their MK6 to handle the extra current draw of the TS/Cetron or Raytheon 6336, 6336A, CK6336 or the 6528 power tubes?
> They have the same pinout of the 6AS7/6080, run at 6.3Vs but draw much more current so I doubt the MK6 could handle them without frying it or shorting something!!


 
 Correct. You need external heater psu for those tubes. The MK6 is only good for 2.5A/output tube socket.
  

 The 6.8V 5A winding is for one channel power tubes.


----------



## ViperGeek

I have a question about "mostly" matching left and right channel power tubes.
  
 As I've shared a couple times, I have a laundry list of favorite tubes to try.  Right now, my favorites (I can afford) are: 
  
 * Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z black bottle driver tubes
 * RCA 6AS7G vintage NOS matched power tubes
  
 Recently, at least one of my 6AS7Gs lost its mind, so I'm back to the stock RCA 6080's that came with the Mk VI+.
  
 My *current *laundry list of haves and must haves are:
  
Tung-Sol CTL 6SN7GT Black Glass Oval Round Plate (Driver Tubes) | eBay
RCA 6SN7GT / GTB Black Plate (Driver Tubes) | TubeDepot.com
RCA 6SN7GTB (Driver Tubes) - TC Tubes
6SL7GT RCA (Driver Tubes) | TubeDepot.com
Tung Sol USA 6SL7GT Black Round Plates (Driver Tubes)
* Tung Sol 6SL7GT Cryo Treated (Driver Tubes)
* CV181-Z Select (equivalent to 6SN7) (Driver Tubes) | Psvane & Shuguang Treasure Audio Tubes
CV181-TII aka 6SN7 (Driver Tubes) | Psvane & Shuguang Treasure Audio Tubes
Sophia Electric™ Premium 6SN7 (Driver Tubes)
Bendix 6080WB Graphite Plate (Power Tubes)
* RCA 6AS7G (Power Tubes) Matched Pair
Tung Sol 5998 (Power Tubes) | Tubes Unlimited
Winged "C" 6H13C / 6AS7G (Power Tubes)
Vintage Svetlana "Winged C" 6AS7G / 6H13C (Power Tubes)
  
 For a while, I've been pining after the Bendix 6080WB Graphite Plate power tubes, but can only find two.  Recently, I also found a pair of *Tung Sol* 6080WBs:

www.etsy.com/listing/216545733/pair-tung-sol-6080wb-vacuum-tubes
  
 My question (finally) is, would the Little Dot Mk VI+ appreciate having a pair of Bendix 6080WB's in the left channel and Tung Sol 6080WB's in the right channel?  My contact states that the difference in gain between all 8 plates in both sets of tubes is around 5-6%.  Would that throw off the audio balance, or would the Mk VI+ automatically adjust for this gain difference?
  
Thanks!
  
- Dave


----------



## Maxx134

they are both 6080wb , so they have same specs, so i dont see a problem.
  
 Also, I have experimented in past a mix which can be done , only when using same spec tubes:
  
 what  I would suggest, is to place one of each brand on same side(!)
 the left (positive) socket of each side will provide the dominant characteristic of the pair.
 This insight is from my testing.
 Also suggest all to at least read the "supermod" thread just to at least gain insights on your amp inner workings...


----------



## ViperGeek

maxx134 said:


> they are both 6080wb , so they have same specs, so i dont see a problem.
> 
> Also, I have experimented in past a mix which can be done , only when using same spec tubes:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Maxx.  I thought about perhaps mixing them L+/R+ and L-/R- as described by you and (I believe) @coinmaster in the past.  I just wasn't sure if the comment from the seller about the 5-6% gain difference would be a problem.  Would having more gain on the + side than the - side cause a "lopsided" signal?
  
 I'll thumb through the Super Mods thread again, although I have to admit: much of it is beyond my ability or modding needs. Still an informative read, though.
  
 - Dave


----------



## coinmaster

No lopsided signal as long as you don't have different tubes in different channels. Most important thing to note about mixing is that there will always be a "right" and a "wrong" configuration.
 By that I mean X and Y tube will sound bad with X in slot 1 and Y in slot 2 but it will sound good with Y in slot 1 and X in slot 2. I have no idea why this happens because the tubes are effectively in series with the load either way, it is on my list of things to play around with and understand in my upcoming prototypes.


----------



## Maxx134

vipergeek said:


> maxx134 said:
> 
> 
> > they are both 6080wb , so they have same specs, so i dont see a problem.
> ...




It was Coinmaster who discovered this, 
And upon further testing I verified you can achieve better sound mixing brands within *same tube type*...
My further investigation revealed that the left socket of each channel (right or left) would be dominant in displaying the tubes sound. ..

So as example , I would take a bright or clear or dynamic tube and place in the left socket,
And a warm bassy tune on right socket.
It would give me a clear dynamic sound with bass .

the other way around would just give a predominantly bassy less sound with some added dynamics. ..

Bottom line I preferred the better tube on the left side socket
...


----------



## colliedoggy

sonictrance said:


> Correct. You need external heater psu for those tubes. The MK6 is only good for 2.5A/output tube socket.
> 
> 
> The 6.8V 5A winding is for one channel power tubes.


 
 So what feeds the heater supply for each driver tube please?
  
 Also, why is 6.8V used and not 6.3V? Won't that reduce the life of the tubes?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## eserafinojr

Respectfully, I'm sorry but I just don't buy that.

I'm happy it works for you, I really do.

Mixing brands of the same type and construction?

The difference in sound you are hearing is is likely attributed to mixing and matching tubes of varied strength, gain and age.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Maxx134

eserafinojr said:


> Respectfully, I'm sorry but I just don't buy that.
> 
> 
> I'm happy it works for you, I really do.
> ...



We talkning about rolling tubes that have their own different sonic characteristics aside from the same type.
It is well established that different brand tubes in the same family sound different.
For instance, a new production 6sn7 is not going to sound like a 1950s Silvania old stock.
The MK6&8 amplifiers have this advantage or ability to combine same model type- different brand without issue.
Try it, you may like it.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

How much of a difference does using balanced on the mk8 make?


----------



## eserafinojr

Pretty substantial IMHO.

The MK6 and MK8 are fully balanced designs and sound their absolute best balanced.

I used to own the MK8SE but sold it in favor of the MK6+ and X1 since they work better with lower impedance phones.

The Single Ended Headphone Output on the MK8 and MK6 is there merely for convenience.

Dynamics, Sound Stage, Imaging is better on balanced. And last but not least noise is non existant via balanced as the signal is grounded.

Little Dots flagship fullsize solid state amp, the X1, has phase inverters so it sounds equally well balanced or single ended and balanced input can be listened to single ended and vice versa!!

The X1 is absolutely fantastic, its one of the best SS amps I have heard.

Totally over looked product on here.


----------



## coinmaster

silent xaxal said:


> How much of a difference does using balanced on the mk8 make?


 
 All the difference. Technically speaking it rejects EM and RF noise while cutting the distortion in half, practically it just sounds way better in every way.


----------



## wadi

Has anybody had a chance to compare mk8 to la figaro 339?


----------



## Petyot

New owner of a MKVI+. Waiting for balanced cables to try my HD800, HD600 and LCD-2.


----------



## rudra

petyot said:


> New owner of a MKVI+. Waiting for balanced cables to try my HD800, HD600 and LCD-2.


 





 What tubes are you using? Is yours the new fanless design. Is it stock unit or does it have custom upgrades.


----------



## Petyot

rudra said:


> What tubes are you using? Is yours the new fanless design. Is it stock unit or does it have custom upgrades.


 

 No idea about the tubes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The seller just said : 4 matched mixed brand 6AS7G (same tube with different label made in US)
  
 I received it this afternoon
  
 Only upgrade is a ultra quiet fan (so it is not the fanless design).


----------



## rudra

Tube rolling is going to be addictive

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Whats the difference between MK6 and MK8? which ones better? also looking for comparison with the la figaro 339.


----------



## rudra

from what I know MK8 is an OTL amp meant for high impedance can and the MK6 is for low impedance(doesn't mean high impedance can't be driven). Both amps are fully balanced. The LaFiagro  339 is a dual mono SE amp.   Which one is better for you is hard to tell. If one is using  planar magnetic and low impedance cans then MK6 would suit better.


----------



## Wolvebain

Regarding planar magnetic headphones, I have driven HE-560's and am driving my LCD-4's with my LD MK6+ with ease...  I listen to music far north of LOUD, but the volume on my LD MK6+ never goes past the 70 mark.
  
 Also, if you are going to evaluate / audition a fully balanced head.amp, like the LD MK6+, against a single-ended head.amp like the La Figaro 339, just make sure that your source is also fully balanced as well (and not just having a balanced out, like that of a NuPrime DAC-9).
 My source is an AudioGD NOS 11, and as wonderful as it sounds with it's built-in head.amp (with +9DB extra gain), when paired my LD MK6+, it's divine!
  
  
  
*Question to the forum:*
 I'm currently running a matched pair of Psvane CV181-T Mark II as my driver/pre tubes, but have just purchased a pair of 5691 RCA Red Base tubes from TubeDepot.com, with following options:

Balanced Triodes
High Gain
Low Noise & Microphonics
Matching
 Link: https://tubedepot.com/products/5691r-red-base
  
 I've read on a thread elsewhere that these 'run at a lower point' to provide longer hours of running... is there anything I should do or set on my LD MK6+ to run these 5691 RCA Red Base optimally?


----------



## rudra

wolvebain said:


> I've read on a thread elsewhere that these 'run at a lower point' to provide longer hours of running... is there anything I should do or set on my LD MK6+ to run these 5691 RCA Red Base optimally?


 
  
 I run a pair of Slyvania 5692 red base. I am not aware of anything out of the ordinary that one needs to do to run them optimally.  Have you tried any other power tubes apart from the 6AS7.


----------



## Wolvebain

@rudra: Thanks for the feedback; Much appreciated!
  
 I've only run the stock 6AS7 it come with initially, and them switched over to the 6SN7GT CV181-T Mark II's (which are direct replacements for 6SN7 & ECC32)
  
 Same with the power tubes.. stock then 1950's quad-matched set of semi-used RCA 6AS7G's.. and recently, a quad-matched set of NOS 6AS7G SVETLANA, Winged C logo (less noise, but less warm tone)
  
 Any recommendations?


----------



## rudra

@Wolvebain power tubes make a difference(IMO, YMMV). I am currently running it with Quad 5998.  I have used Tungsol 6080 Carbon plates, Tungsol/Sylvania 7236 and Svetlana 6AS7G winged C for power tubes. Several different 6SN7(Kenrad VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7W & VT-231, Sylvania 5692).
  
 Depending on what combination of power and driver tubes I get different flavours. The downside is that my wallet is not happy
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
 Also the HP's have a different presentation with different combination. Some combinations are excellent while some are mediocre.


----------



## Wolvebain

@rudra: Agreed.  Which us why I asked for recommendations...  Stuff that available, whilst I'm keep a lookout for a quad matched set of NOS Tung-Sol 5998 power tubes to become available.
  
 As for the matched pair of NOS 5691 RCA Red Base driver tubes from from TubeDepot.. They arrived today 

  
 Will test them our this weekend and post my impressions.


----------



## djj65

I just ordered the LD MK VIII SE. Does anyone know what stock tubes are included?


----------



## rudra

if you ordered from LD perhaps ask David at LD. He will let you know what tubes are being shipped with the unit.


----------



## djj65

I purchased the unit from eBay, the Shenzenaudio store. I am not able to create an account or contact anyone on the Little Dot site as it appears to be closed off to any new members or posters. I found the same with the La Figaro creator, no contacts. This is why I went through eBay. Hopefully the unit is actually from LD.


----------



## rudra

you can email them @ little.tube@gmail.com
  
 If you purchased from Shenzenaudio perhaps contact them.


----------



## djj65

It's interesting. I ended up ordering the unit from eBay last weekend and did not learn about the little dot site until a few days later. I contacted Dave and was told that there is no support or warranty when ordering from ShenZhenAudio. I am not sure if I made a mistake or not since I cannot ask on the boards at the LD site. Dave answered my first question but has yet to answer my question as to whether ShenZhenAudio is a knock-off or legit LD unit. I know it is always a risk to buy from China, but not sure if I made a mistake or not with how I purchased my unit, which is due to arrive next week. I guess I will wait and see.


----------



## serman005

Question for the group. Which Little Dot is most recommended for HD600/650?I really appreciate the input. Just for reference, that is a 300 ohm load.  Thanks.


----------



## rudra

Little Dot MK VIII SE if you plan to use high impedance HP or Little Dot MK VI+. If you want an SS amp Little Dot X1


----------



## Wolvebain

Also consider the Little Dot MK III *SE* for a budget solution for the HD600/650
  
 Quote Link: http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10332&sid=4f65eb170297f78335c7582aeb786e2a: 





> The Little Dot MK III SE is a fully balanced hybrid tube amplifier with a discrete output stage. The tube pre-amp stage leverages the 6922's lush mid-range and natural soundstage reproduction for a euphonic and holographic sound. The discrete transistor output stage is a fully symmetrical, pure Class A circuit which produces outstanding power to deliver a powerful and detailed bass response. Both fully balanced and single-ended outputs are supported.
> 
> *Technical Specifications:*
> 
> ...


----------



## Maxx134

3ggerhappy said:


> Whats the difference between MK6 and MK8? which ones better? also looking for comparison with the la figaro 339.



Figaro 339 is a beautiful exterior designed amp of high quality feel.
Sound wise it is a thick darker sound suited well to brighter headphones.
It is not balanced.

Although I love the look of the 339, 
Both the MK6 & MK8 is the clear winner in most sonic attributes..

MK6 is best all around model, and with the power it has is a perfect solution for all cans.

The MK8 which is balanced amp is very and maybe more neutral sounding.
It is exactly design for higher impedance headphones,
Whith it's output being somewhere in 300-400ohm range,
 which the senheiser 600/650/800 are in.
So you could say it was designed with them in mind.

In supermods thread I have lower my mk8 output impedance, as I moved away from hd800 to HEK. 
The MK6 was made to have a switchable output impedance as well.
So the advantage of the MK6 increased output is an advantage.
I myself am happy with my MK8 sound.
Even if you do not mod these amps, 
It is great benifit to learn about them more at that thread.






djj65 said:


> I just ordered the LD MK VIII SE. Does anyone know what stock tubes are included?



Included is always New type tubes, which are nice performance but still need tube roll to maximize potential.
Although the Mk6 has more tube rolling in powerube section, you can't go wrong with MK8 powertubes.
My best combo was a combo of Sovtek and EH tube on each channel, with the Sovtek on the left and EH on the right.
This was duplicated on both sides/(L&R)channels.
It gave performance equalling the Russian Supertubes.
Currently I settled on another 9pin , the older 6h6n with an slight increase in bias as well as an adjustment to lower the output impedance.
All that will be discussed in supermods thread.

Anyways the MK6 or MK8 will sound excellent with tube roll suggestions discussed here and there.

Driver tube is always a more personal choice.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

maxx134 said:


> Figaro 339 is a beautiful exterior designed amp of high quality feel.
> Sound wise it is a thick darker sound suited well to brighter headphones.
> It is not balanced.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info.
  
 Now I am leaning to get the MK8 since I have the HD800S, now can you please suggest a pre amp tube wherein there is a laid back warmish sound with good soundstage for the MK8? I still find the 800S quite bright for my taste. TIA


----------



## Wolvebain

I have an opportunity to get a quad matched set of NOS Tung Sol 5998 tubes, to replace my quad matched NOS 1950's RCA 6AS7G tubes... but they're very pricey for me: $950.USD...
 Current pre's on my LD MK6+ are a matched pair of NOS 5691 RCA Red Base tubes.
  
 Should I go for it?


----------



## Wolvebain

3ggerhappy said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Now I am leaning to get the MK8 since I have the HD800S, now can you please suggest a pre amp tube wherein there is a laid back warmish sound with good soundstage for the MK8? I still find the 800S quite bright for my taste. TIA


 
 I wouldn't count the out the LD MK6+ tho... I run my HD800S's on my LD MK6+ and they sound wonderful.
 The stock Thomson tubes were a bit bright and lean on the bottom-end..
 Until I heeded @ViperGeek's advice and popped in a matched pair of Psvane CV181-T Mark II tubes, and quad matched set of NOS RCA 6AS7G..
  
 The LD MK6+ also had more than enough power to spare when when I was running my HE-560's too


----------



## rudra

wolvebain said:


> I have an opportunity to get a quad matched set of NOS Tung Sol 5998 tubes, to replace my quad matched NOS 1950's RCA 6AS7G tubes... but they're very pricey for me: $950.USD...
> Current pre's on my LD MK6+ are a matched pair of NOS 5691 RCA Red Base tubes.
> 
> Should I go for it?




Ouch, I got my quad matched 5998 at $135 per tube about a month ago.


----------



## Wolvebain

rudra said:


> Ouch, I got my quad matched 5998 at $135 per tube about a month ago.


 

 Wow!!!
 Care to share from where you source them from?


----------



## rudra

wolvebain said:


> Wow!!!
> Care to share from where you source them from?


 
 On ebay. The seller is pauls994. He also sells in the HeadFi classified sometimes. 
  
 P.S. He is also selling Tungsol 7236.


----------



## Maxx134

wolvebain said:


> 3ggerhappy said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info.
> ...





Excellent points.
For overall usage , you cannot beat the MK6.
So much tube choice you can basically have it tuned for your preference.


----------



## Maxx134

3ggerhappy said:


> I still find the 800S quite bright for my taste. TIA



You may have to look into the SD mod for the 800. 
A review was at innerfidelity.
Best mod for hd800 so far.

I personally do not use it as I use a fuller sounding one.


----------



## Wil

I was reading through the thread and am of the understanding that one can directly use the 6SN7 tubes in place of the 6SL7 tubes without any modification? (This is for the MKIV).


----------



## rudra

wil said:


> I was reading through the thread and am of the understanding that one can directly use the 6SN7 tubes in place of the 6SL7 tubes without any modification? (This is for the MKIV).


 
 That's correct. You can use the 6SN7 tubes without any modification for the MK VI+
  
 The 6SN7 are medium gain whereas 6SL7 is high gain.


----------



## Wil

rudra said:


> That's correct. You can use the 6SN7 tubes without any modification for the MK VI+
> 
> The 6SN7 are medium gain whereas 6SL7 is high gain.


 
  
 Thanks!

 I should have a MKVI coming in soon and i happen to have a pair of Psvane CV181s laying around.
  
 Will most probably pair it with an Ether Flow.


----------



## rudra

I am using 6SN7 tubes on my MK VI+. 
  
 did you order your unit from LD directly ?


----------



## Wil

rudra said:


> I am using 6SN7 tubes on my MK VI+.
> 
> did you order your unit from LD directly ?


 
  
 nope, i have a local dealer that's clearing some stock. 
  
 Getting it at quite a good price.


----------



## djj65

I just received my LD MK VIII SE this week and it is pretty impressive. One curious thing is the amount of time it takes to warm up both the left and right side. I would say it takes 3-4 minutes before both sides are up. Is this normal timing?


----------



## john57

yep


----------



## Wolvebain

wolvebain said:


> I have an opportunity to get a quad matched set of NOS Tung Sol 5998 tubes, to replace my quad matched NOS 1950's RCA 6AS7G tubes... but they're very pricey for me: $950.USD...
> Current pre's on my LD MK6+ are a matched pair of NOS 5691 RCA Red Base tubes.
> 
> Should I go for it?


 
  
 Sigh...
 My quad matched set of NOS Tung Sol 5998 tubes package from WooAudio arrived a few minutes ago.
 With customs/import-duties, and the $950USD, I paid about $1000USD.
  
 As I was unboxing these tubes, I noticed:

There was a slight rattle sound when I moved the tubes... a gentle single shake, and the sound was not slight, but clear and apparent
On closer inspection, some of the tubes have small pieces of glass bits freely moving round inside the tube
One of the tubes base was loose, and I felt it turn with the least amount of pressure whilst the glass top stays in place
  
  
 Tried to call WooAudio twice.. no answer, so left a voice-mail, as well as used to contact form to let them know they can collect these tubes from me and refund me.
  
 I mean... If you can't trust WooAudio, whilst paying the super expensive prices they ask for, who/woo can you trust?!?


----------



## Wolvebain

wolvebain said:


> Sigh...
> My quad matched set of NOS Tung Sol 5998 tubes package from WooAudio arrived a few minutes ago.
> With customs/import-duties, and the $950USD, I paid about $1000USD.
> 
> ...


 
 Just got off the phone with Mike Liang from Woo...
 Long chat.. rather not say what their philosophy is on what NOS is.. but they agreed to refund me if I ship the tubes back to them ( at my cost )
  
 This has been a very disappointing experience 
 No 5998 tubes... refund only at a later stage, and won't cover my return shipment or customs fees...


----------



## SonicTrance

wolvebain said:


> wolvebain said:
> 
> 
> > Sigh...
> ...


 
 Pieces of glass and loose bases are normal and nothing to worry about. Just superglue the base to the glass. 
  
 However, if the tubes suppose to be NOS and you paid $1000 for them I very much understand you want to return them.
  


> rather not say what their philosophy is on what NOS is


 
 To bad, would be interesting to hear!


----------



## Wolvebain

sonictrance said:


> Pieces of glass and loose bases are normal and nothing to worry about. Just superglue the base to the glass.
> 
> However, if the tubes suppose to be NOS and you paid $1000 for them I very much understand you want to return them.


 
 Are you saying loose bases and bits of glass pieces inside the tube is expected for NOS tubes?


----------



## SonicTrance

wolvebain said:


> sonictrance said:
> 
> 
> > Pieces of glass and loose bases are normal and nothing to worry about. Just superglue the base to the glass.
> ...



No, loose bases comes from people pulling tubes while holding the glass instead of holding the actual base. Loose glass is common in larger tubes but I've never had any in a NOS tube.


----------



## Wolvebain

sonictrance said:


> No, loose bases comes from people pulling tubes while holding the glass instead of holding the actual base. Loose glass is common in larger tubes but I've never had any in a NOS tube.


 

 Thanks man...  Just wanted to check my understanding of NOS...


----------



## Maxx134

wolvebain said:


> sonictrance said:
> 
> 
> > Pieces of glass and loose bases are normal and nothing to worry about. Just superglue the base to the glass.
> ...



If stated NOS, it should be new, not used.

Broken glass Should not affect it but is a sign of handling and age.

Loose base and broken glass is sign of used tubes.

Used tubes can test new for quite a while depending on usage and biasing.

They most probably meant that the tube tested as a NOS tube. 

I have a tube similar that.
Broken glass but inside middle of base and not in tube itself, with a loose base.

No problem though.

Anyways, it's a shame to have to return.
Why not test anyways to see if works before shipping,
And if you like the sound,
Maybe ask for a discount or partial refund considering they said it was "NOS"..


----------



## Wolvebain

maxx134 said:


> If stated NOS, it should be new, not used.
> 
> Broken glass Should not affect it but is a sign of handling and age.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback; Much appreciated.
  
 If they are willing to do a partial refund, I'll think about testing them, whilst I get quotes to ship back.
 What do you guys think the refund/discount should be?


----------



## rosgr63

Broken glass may not be a sign of use it can happen during manufacture


----------



## mdoxey73

Can any MK VIII or MK VI+ owners compare them to the Ampsandsound Kenzie on sound quality? I'd be especially grateful if anyone has the experience to make that comparison for the original Senn HD800. I know the Kenzie is about twice the price and only single-ended, and both the Little Dots and Kenzie seem to get good reviews from folks who have heard them, but I haven't found any comparisons.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Maxx134

Yeah you getting a basic nice quality baby amp at 3x price what I would consider.
No where even near the power output of the little dot amps in this thread either.

The mk6&8 in stock form should be viewed at woo wa22 level sound quality.


If not a little dot then maybe Look at a Glenn amp Instead.

Regardless, I heard it and it is nice upper mid level quality sound.
Not at MK6/8 level.
Not that strong either.

For super cheapo nice amp to mod above that level,
Look at the small APPJ amps like the one I recently modded:
Nice strong clear sound once Modded.
Similar topology of "single ended" & Transformer output like the amp you mentioned.


----------



## thompsontechs

Just got a care package from David, 4hr burn and giving the HD800s a work out. 
  
 My Def of a good night... Comp-Wyrd-V800-LD6+_HD800  He WA7D is jeleous,,,, fkthabtch. 
  
 BTW, damn that thing runs HOT!!!!!
  

  
 MY first impression of this amp is to \save your money for all that other $$$ stuff and buy this amp and laugh at the money you saved... Well done David. 
  
 Just me an Nanalew! 
  
 EDIT: Oh and one last thing... how about we drop all the verbiage an rate equipment with a, "giggle factor!"


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Hi guys, just ordered an mk8, any suggestions on tubes that would tame the treble harshness of the HD800?


----------



## coinmaster

3ggerhappy said:


> Hi guys, just ordered an mk8, any suggestions on tubes that would tame the treble harshness of the HD800?


 go to the mk6/8 modding thread and then thank me later for changing your life.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Ok I had received the mk8 se, Is it normal the input tubes does not glow that much? Also I have read on the littledot forums @Maxx134 suggestions on tubes which he states he prefers the e80cc tubes, I would like also to start on that, now would this be ok 

https://tubeworldexpress.com/collec...niwatt-sq-holland-1966-matched-on-amplitrex-2


----------



## Maxx134 (May 8, 2017)

3ggerhappy said:


> he states he prefers the e80cc tubes, I would like also to start on that, now would this be ok


Wow... Site..   Ugg..

Anyways,  don't spend your money on expensive e80cc driver tubes!
You will get great sound from the 5751 tube and the e180cc tube..(for the driver tubes).

The e80cc only give a bit more soundstage.
When your ready,  graduate to the MK6 driver tubes with adapters,
OR my fav 6c8g tube with adapter.

The weird advantage of the MK8,  it that the best tubes for it are much cheaper tubes than for mk6(!)


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Maxx134 said:


> Wow this site is nicely improved...
> 
> Anyways,  don't spend your money on expensive e80cc driver tubes!
> You will get great sound from the 5751 tube and the e180cc tube..(for the driver tubes).
> ...




Thanks for the info I will search for a 5751 and e180cc tubes.

Also is it normal that the driver tubes does not glow that much?(using the stock tubes that comes with the unit), Also I have observed that the left driver tube does not glow, the right one has a faint glow, does it have something to do because I am only using the single ended input and is using only one driver tube? 

Also about the gain, does it default to low? I am guessing it is since I need to crank the volume up to 70 even 80 with the HD800S, do you recommend setting it to high? Which leads me to my next question on setting the gain, I know the switches are underneath but do i need to unscrew things?

Sorry for the newb questions but can you please advise. 

On another note the amp sounds fantastic even on stock form, now im very excited to try some tubes with it. TIA


----------



## Maxx134 (Apr 29, 2017)

Single ended or balanced input us fine.
For output, Balanced headphone output is optimal.
Tube glow vary with tube.
Even same tubes will glow differently.
For the MK8,  it recommended to set gain on high.
You will have to open the bottom.

Word of caution, the screws are very cheap and known to strip if you do not have exactly right size Phillips head, 
And also press down firmly to twist strong  enough...
Goodluck!


----------



## djj65

Do the meters have to show the same values? When running my HD800S with a balanced XLR cable, they show the same current for left and right (around 60). I purchased an XLR to 1/4-cable to allow me to connect a different set of headphones, Denon AH-D7200. The left meter shows 30, the right shows 80, yet the sound seems very balance (equal sound left and right). Is that normal? or is it a concern?


----------



## Maxx134 (May 8, 2017)

Sounds  like a cable issue causing the drop.
Maybe  the right and left grounds are swapped.

Just my guess so check your cable  with meter.


----------



## gug42 (May 13, 2017)

Hello,

Any recommandation for a middle priced 6SL7 tubes to replace the stock 6H8C ?
I'm loooking (as usual i imagine) deep basses with impact, lush, and soft/mellow high-mids en trebble.

For now, no modification of the stock 6080 tubes.

And well, I'have read the 3/4 first pages without finding a compatibilty list abour mk6+ 

Thank you !


----------



## Maxx134

Silvania is a safe overall good choice.


----------



## gug42

Ok thank you   
There is lots of différent version ....


----------



## gug42

Hello,

Is there some who have tested thoses tubes please ? I'd like to have a "sound opinion" ?
6SL7GT RCA with smoked glass, black base, tall black plate
6SL7GT Tun Sol  black glass on the 3/4 of the glass, small clear band at the top, blackbase

Or better to stay with Sylvania 6SL7WGT brawn base, short rounded black plates, top getter ?

Thank you in advance !


----------



## gug42

Well, please, did you know a cheap / good money value balanced dac  with optical and usb input ?


----------



## gug42 (May 19, 2017)

Hello,

What your experience about rolling the power tubes ? 
Really get an improvement ? because 7236 and 5998A are expensive tubes 

And well is there any changement to replace stock 6080 by RCA 6AS7G ?

Regards,


----------



## john57

djj65 said:


> Do the meters have to show the same values? When running my HD800S with a balanced XLR cable, they show the same current for left and right (around 60). I purchased an XLR to 1/4-cable to allow me to connect a different set of headphones, Denon AH-D7200. The left meter shows 30, the right shows 80, yet the sound seems very balance (equal sound left and right). Is that normal? or is it a concern?


Yes that would be a concern. You can use a balanced headphone into a single ended connection with an adapter instead of changing the headphone cable. However you can not use a single ended headphone plugged into a balanced output with an adapter. That could harm some balanced amps.  The Little Dot MK VI does have a singled ended output that you can use normally on the back of the amp.


----------



## gug42

And about a budget balanced dac  :  anyone with a "cambridge dacmagic plus" or gustard x9 or x12  ?  Any good match  ?  

Thx  !


----------



## 3ggerhappy

gug42 said:


> Well, please, did you know a cheap / good money value balanced dac  with optical and usb input ?




Heard/read some good feedback on the Denfrips Ares R2R Dac head to https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/denafrips-ares-r2r-discrete-ladder-dac-close-up-view.833690/ and see some impressions


----------



## 3ggerhappy

I have a question re: using LD as a pre amp, as you could see in the manual there is this sort of dicalimer:

"The Little Dot MK VIII SE is not to be used with a DC or direct coupled power amplifier. It is designed
to be used with “pure” power amplifiers and not integrated amplifiers as otherwise the total gain will
too high.

The pre-amplification signal in the Little Dot MK VIII SE includes both the driver and power tubes for better
compatibility with power amplifiers with low input impedance (for example, transistor-based power amps)."

Now how could one tell if an amp is dc coupled or not? I am interested in purchasing a pair of these power amp

https://www.reddragonaudio.com/products/m500-mkii

I have already sent an inquiry and have received a reply stating there would be no problem with the pairing, but they did not confirm if the power amp is dc coupled or not.

also in the m500-mkii is is stated: 

"Red Dragon Audio designed the M500MkII with customer feedback at the forefront of the process.  Our new design incorporates the most requested features from clients including our latest input section.  This custom Input Buffer Section offers flexible input options, remote control functionality and a high input impedance.  Increased Input Impedance allows our amps to be paired with all preamplifiers - even the most esoteric tube preamps."

Is it really safe?
Can anyone with the technical know how please advise. TIA


----------



## Maxx134 (May 22, 2017)

Allotta questions lol.
Use "old stock" tubes whenever possible.
The older,  the better.
Most else is preference.
GE is good
RCA would be catagorized as very good.
Silvania better
Kenrad better still
Tung-sol more better
National union better
European tubes also more better..

All is  subjective to personal experiences,  and need be taken into account as variable,
 due to companies rebranding and changing quality at various time periods. 



3ggerhappy said:


> Also about the gain, does it default to low?


Yes it is set to low by default and so you have to open and flip those tiny switches.



john57 said:


> Yes that would be a concern. You can use a balanced headphone into a single ended connection with an adapter instead of changing the headphone cable. However you can not use a single ended headphone plugged into a balanced output with an adapter. That could harm some balanced amps.  The Little Dot MK VI does have a singled ended output that you can use normally on the back of the amp.


OMG I totally overlooked that he using a dam conversion cable!
Who the hell makes that crap?
As it is dangerous for any amp depending how it is wired.

So the meter which has the extreme dip, corresponds to the negative which both channels are tied to and so sharing...
Or worse yet,  both negative signals could be both wired together and to ground.
Ugg..
But most probably not or you would have some burnt resistors lol


----------



## gug42

Totally agree !
About tubes, from what I read : all is about headphone and personal preferences. At a point, there is no "bad tubes"?


----------



## gug42

Well, can it be a probleme to not have closely matched triode for an driver tube 6sl7  ?  Around 15-17 %  of differences  between the two triode  ?


----------



## Maxx134

gug42 said:


> Well, can it be a probleme to not have closely matched triode for an driver tube 6sl7  ?  Around 15-17 %  of differences  between the two triode  ?


No because of the design compensate it with common cathode deaign...
Go to the little dot super mod thread for more info.


----------



## gug42 (May 24, 2017)

Wich gain settings could be recommanded for he-500  ? 
Any drawback of high or low gain in sound quality  ?


----------



## Tim Le

Does anyone know how the Little Dot MK VIII compares to the Feliks Audio and Woo Audio offerings around the $1000 price range?


----------



## Maxx134 (May 24, 2017)

Tim Le said:


> Does anyone know how the Little Dot MK VIII compares to the Feliks Audio and Woo Audio offerings around the $1000 price range?


The Little dots are more neutral and in similar sound quality as others in stock.

If you do not want to do a little DIY to upgrade,  I would probably get the others for better resale value.

If you want a really top level amp with better sound than stock,
Supassing the others,
Only then would I get the MK6 MK8 and goto the Super Mod thread..
Even to learn and mod the others.


The MK8 is not any better than MK6,
Only that it tuned specially for 600ohm cans.
And that is not "here-say" or what is stated,
but it is a FACT from my own testing.
It is  specifically most optimally  tuned for 600ohm cans.


You need to pick an amp that has the  tubes you like,
And the power you need,
And the sonic signature you want.
The tubes will be a hint of that.

I do not reccomend any amps that use special or hard to get tubes.

Also do not get any "crack" type amps that need huge output capacitors..

Only transformer out or straight tube out.

And dont go cheap or you will regret,  because too many weak tube amps out there..

If you wanna go cheap and save for a better amp,
I can only suggest getting the mini  APPJ tube amp.
 Modded it will hold up to most others.


----------



## gug42

gug42 said:


> Wich gain settings could be recommanded for he-500  ?
> Any drawback of high or low gain in sound quality  ?



Well I'm in low gain.  Around 9/10 o'clock with an HE500.  Any advantage of high gain so ?
In this thread I've read more basse, more slam and rolled high ?


----------



## SonicTrance

gug42 said:


> Well I'm in low gain.  Around 9/10 o'clock with an HE500.  Any advantage of high gain so ?
> In this thread I've read more basse, more slam and rolled high ?


Just try it with high gain and listen. There's no right or wrong setting. Which ever setting sounds best to you is your right setting. Personally I find my MK6 way to noisy on high gain, so I always run low gain. It's dead quiet on low gain.


----------



## gug42

Agree for dead quite  

Well by the way, can you point me a fan 80x80x*20 *please ?  25 don't fit in


----------



## Tim Le

Maxx134 said:


> The Little dots are more neutral and in similar sound quality as others in stock.
> 
> If you do not want to do a little DIY to upgrade,  I would probably get the others for better resale value.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the information! I'm not too electronically inclined so the Little Dot may be what I'm looking for afterall


----------



## gug42

Just a point : the little dot can go really hot ! really !

By the way, is there some people who have compared Tung Sol 6SU7GTY, against Shuguang Treasure CV181 ?  

And is here any comparaison between  the CV181-T (black bottle, golden base), CV181-Z (black bottle, white base), CV181-TII (grey bottle) ?

Thank you in advance !


----------



## gug42

And Another question : I'm surprise thant we can use 6SN7 in little dot mkVI.  The Current heater need is the double, can the transformer  handle this without overheating ?


----------



## SonicTrance

gug42 said:


> And Another question : I'm surprise thant we can use 6SN7 in little dot mkVI. The Current heater need is the double, can the transformer handle this without overheating ?


Yes it can! 
You can use up to 1A/channel for driver tubes and 5A/channel for output tubes.


----------



## gug42

Hello,

Thank you for this information ! 1A is lots of power ! I'm not sure to understand the schema, where did you see the 1A and 5A per channel ?
Where did you get this schema ?

By the way, Inside the little dot,  did you know the usage of the small blue box with a screw on it ? Bias configuration ? others ?


----------



## SonicTrance

gug42 said:


> where did you see the 1A and 5A per channel ?




 



gug42 said:


> Where did you get this schema ?


I asked LD for it.



gug42 said:


> By the way, Inside the little dot, did you know the usage of the small blue box with a screw on it ?


It's bias pots for the OpAmps to set 0V at the output.


----------



## gug42

Hello,

Thank you ! 
Well I surely dont understand, I only read 1a and 5A for both channel ?


----------



## SonicTrance

gug42 said:


> Well I surely dont understand, I only read 1a and 5A for both channel ?


The MK6 has two identical transformers. The 115V and 85V windings are connected in series to double up on the voltage. The heater windings are used separate, one transformer/channel.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

3ggerhappy said:


> I have a question re: using LD as a pre amp, as you could see in the manual there is this sort of dicalimer:
> 
> "The Little Dot MK VIII SE is not to be used with a DC or direct coupled power amplifier. It is designed
> to be used with “pure” power amplifiers and not integrated amplifiers as otherwise the total gain will
> ...



Follow up on this, can anyone provide some info


----------



## gug42

SonicTrance said:


> The MK6 has two identical transformers. The 115V and 85V windings are connected in series to double up on the voltage. The heater windings are used separate, one transformer/channel.


Oh well !! Thank you for explanation


----------



## Maxx134

gug42 said:


> By the way, is there some people who have compared Tung Sol 6SU7GTY, against Shuguang Treasure CV181 ?


Yes I have both them right now, 
the Tung sol is really excellent and a top tube as it  will give a slightly more dynamic presentation. 
The Treasure is also really nice too yet a tad soft , delicate and smoother.




3ggerhappy said:


> up on this, can anyone provide some info


Not sure whats to worry about. 
It certainly looks ok, as they are sayin any tube amp,
and I doubt your mk6 /mk8 meters would even budge with a high impedance load.


----------



## gug42

Maxx134 said:


> Yes I have both them right now,
> the Tung sol is really excellent and a top tube as it  will give a slightly more dynamic presentation.
> The Treasure is also really nice too yet a tad soft , delicate and smoother.



Thank you for thoses infomations ! Well ok the treasure go my wishlist. 
By the way I find tge 6su7gty really good, dynamique, detailed, 3D positiong really impress me. And remain smooth afer all.


----------



## gug42 (Jun 26, 2017)

Hello,

Anyone have test the 5998*A*, specially the sylvania kind ? Well I didn't find any reports of the A version in this thread 

Moreover about to noch tubes : any one tried Sylvania vs Tung Sol 7236 ?

Regards,


----------



## 3ggerhappy

My little Dot Mk8 SE, suddenly shows imbalance on the meters reading? 40 on the Left 60 on the Right is it a problem? what might be the cause of it?


----------



## coinmaster

Your house will explode....get out now.


----------



## djj65

3ggerhappy said:


> My little Dot Mk8 SE, suddenly shows imbalance on the meters reading? 40 on the Left 60 on the Right is it a problem? what might be the cause of it?


Maybe try swapping all tubes from left to right channel and see if the problem follows the tubes.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

djj65 said:


> Maybe try swapping all tubes from left to right channel and see if the problem follows the tubes.




Did swapped and still the same. I let it rest then fired it up again when I woke up earlier this morning its back to normal, may be its a heat issue?, I will test it on again later and leave it on for some time and see if the problem reoccurs.


----------



## gug42

Hello,
What's your opinion about 5998*A*, especially the sylvania kind ?


----------



## NinjaMilez

Hi, all. 

I've managed to find a good deal on a Little Dot Mk. VIII to replace a Schiit Asgard II but I'm worried that it's going to run too hot since it's class A. 

I'm in a pretty small room (8ft by 7ft) and my Asgard gets to the point where it's literally too painful to touch and needs to be turned off for an hour or so the room can cool down. Will this still be the case with the Little Dot VIII?


----------



## ViperGeek

NinjaMilez said:


> Hi, all.
> 
> I've managed to find a good deal on a Little Dot Mk. VIII to replace a Schiit Asgard II but I'm worried that it's going to run too hot since it's class A.
> 
> I'm in a pretty small room (8ft by 7ft) and my Asgard gets to the point where it's literally too painful to touch and needs to be turned off for an hour or so the room can cool down. Will this still be the case with the Little Dot VIII?


Hey Milez.

I'm the proud owner of both a Little Dot Mk. III and Mk. VI+, so I would imagine the Mk. VIII would fall somewhere in between.  As with any tube amplifier, the actual tubes get hot to the touch (last time I measured, they were about 140°F).  However, the smaller tubes of the Mk. III make it run significantly cooler than the big-tubed Mk. VI+.  Additionally, the transformer is also warm (think: electric blanket temperature), but not as hot as the tubes.  The transformer on the Mk. VI+ is a bit warmer, but still not uncomfortable to touch.

In my estimation, the Mk. VIII will keep your small room nice 'n warm in the winter, but will not overheat, even if left on 24x7.  I've never had either amp come anywhere near thermal shutdown, or cook you out of your room.

- Dave


----------



## NinjaMilez

ViperGeek said:


> Hey Milez.
> 
> I'm the proud owner of both a Little Dot Mk. III and Mk. VI+, so I would imagine the Mk. VIII would fall somewhere in between.  As with any tube amplifier, the actual tubes get hot to the touch (last time I measured, they were about 140°F).  However, the smaller tubes of the Mk. III make it run significantly cooler than the big-tubed Mk. VI+.  Additionally, the transformer is also warm (think: electric blanket temperature), but not as hot as the tubes.  The transformer on the Mk. VI+ is a bit warmer, but still not uncomfortable to touch.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply, Dave. That matches up with what the seller has just told me.


----------



## thompsontechs

I had a couple of flags for this thread...  I know I may be a bit lake, but they were about heat. the VIII gets hot as ****. I had the M-Caps put in and it came with no fans because the caps got in the way. If you run that bitch like that without fans it will be hot enough to warm the food in your dorm. I crap you not folks, way to hot for comfort. I put fans, "outside" the case because it was scary hot... 

No BS here. just trying to give back. HOTAS****!


----------



## NinjaMilez

thompsontechs said:


> I had a couple of flags for this thread...  I know I may be a bit lake, but they were about heat. the VIII gets hot as ****. I had the M-Caps put in and it came with no fans because the caps got in the way. If you run that bitch like that without fans it will be hot enough to warm the food in your dorm. I **** you not folks, way to hot for comfort. I put fans, "outside" the case because it was scary hot...
> 
> No BS here. just trying to give back. HOTAS****!



Thanks for letting me know, I've read some reviews around the web and it doesn't look like the amp for me anymore.


----------



## wkndWarrior

Hi

Can someone confirm that i have got this right. I'm looking at the MKVI+ Vs the MKVIII se for my Fostex TH-900 mk2 (balanced). What i have read the MKVI+ would be the better match due to it's impedance of 25ohm.
I'm no expert so please give me a second opinion 
Thanks!


----------



## greenkiwi

that's my read.  VIII only for high impedance cans.


----------



## gug42

My next mod will be to add a "plancha" on the top of the tubes


----------



## wkndWarrior

greenkiwi said:


> that's my read.  VIII only for high impedance cans.


Thanks for the answer


----------



## thompsontechs

This a great amp, and if you do not upgrade the caps, it will come with internal fans... the problem crops up if you get the larger Mundorf caps. If you do this, there is no room for the internal fans and you are going to need some cooling. 

I LOVE the amp. 


JT


----------



## ViperGeek

wkndWarrior said:


> Hi
> 
> Can someone confirm that i have got this right. I'm looking at the MKVI+ Vs the MKVIII se for my Fostex TH-900 mk2 (balanced). What i have read the MKVI+ would be the better match due to it's impedance of 25ohm.
> I'm no expert so please give me a second opinion
> Thanks!


You are correct.  According to http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=871

"The Little Dot MK VIII SE is designed to be used with high impedance headphones like Sennheisers (HD600, HD650, HD800) and Beyerdynamics."

On the other hand, the Little Dot MK VI+ is a high current beast, able to drive pretty much anything.  Mine drives the following headphones with complete authority:

HD-650 = 300Ω
ATH-M50x = 38Ω (SE)

LCD-2 = 50Ω

TH-X00 = 25Ω (SE)

LCD-4 = 200Ω

- Dave


----------



## wkndWarrior

ViperGeek said:


> You are correct.  According to http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=871
> 
> "The Little Dot MK VIII SE is designed to be used with high impedance headphones like Sennheisers (HD600, HD650, HD800) and Beyerdynamics."
> 
> ...


Ok thanks, I will go with the MKVI+ then 
I have sold my LD MKIV SE that i loved very much but want to try something else.
Also use a Oppo HA-1 but want to go back to tubes again.


----------



## rudra

thompsontechs said:


> This a great amp, and if you do not upgrade the caps, it will come with internal fans... the problem crops up if you get the larger Mundorf caps. If you do this, there is no room for the internal fans and you are going to need some cooling.
> 
> I LOVE the amp.
> 
> ...



you could always use a laptop cooler under the amp. That is what I did since mine came with no fans and had the Mundorf caps. No problems with heat. YMMV


----------



## Chemi

How do you connect this laptop cooler? (In usb?) as often the ampli doesn't like the laptop too nearby....?


----------



## thompsontechs (Sep 2, 2017)

rudra said:


> you could always use a laptop cooler under the amp. That is what I did since mine came with no fans and had the Mundorf caps. No problems with heat. YMMV



I did do that to start, but it didn't cool the way I wanted, so I sized the holes and mounted two fans external which are powered by a usb charger. 

These bolt right up

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IJ2J2K0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also put filters on the intake side


----------



## thompsontechs

Chemi said:


> How do you connect this laptop cooler? (In usb?) as often the ampli doesn't like the laptop too nearby....?



Just pickup a stand alone USB charger and you can place it wherever you want. 

JT


----------



## Chemi

Why don't I think to this?

Thanks


----------



## roxrite

Can somebody explain me what the mundorf mcap silver oil capacitor upgrade improves?

How is the sound quality improved?

And is it worth it or should I just stick with the stock caps?


----------



## thompsontechs

roxrite said:


> Can somebody explain me what the mundorf mcap silver oil capacitor upgrade improves?
> 
> How is the sound quality improved?
> 
> And is it worth it or should I just stick with the stock caps?



I did the upgrade from the factory, so I can not tell you what the sound difference was from stock. Perhaps someone else could chime in that did a cap upgrade or who has heard both. Also, there is some good info on this forum, you might just try searching on Mundorf and read.

JT


----------



## wkndWarrior (Sep 5, 2017)

Another noob question from me hope thats ok.
Ordered a LD MKVI+ Yesterday and plan to do some tube rolling when it arrives (coming from an LD MKIV SE and tried some different tubes on that one).
I googled to try to find some good replacement tubes but love to get some suggestions from members in this forum. I will start with tubes that don't require any mods being done to the amplifier itself.
Can anyone point me in the right direction 
I love when the sound is a little more warm than cold if that helps. Looking for both Driver and Power tubes. It rather be NOS tubes than modern tubes.


----------



## ViperGeek

wkndWarrior said:


> Another noob question from me hope thats ok.
> Ordered a LD MKVI+ Yesterday and plan to do some tube rolling when it arrives (coming from an LD MKIV SE and tried some different tubes on that one).
> I googled to try to find some good replacement tubes but love to get some suggestions from members in this forum. I will start with tubes that don't require any mods being done to the amplifier itself.
> Can anyone point me in the right direction
> I love when the sound is a little more warm than cold if that helps. Looking for both Driver and Power tubes. It rather be NOS tubes than modern tubes.



Hi wkndWarrior.

A ways back in this thread, I made a list of prospective driver and power tubes for my Mk VI+ here:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/l...se-owners-unite.522099/page-150#post-12203881

Personally, I've tried Tung Sol 6SL7GT Cryo Treated driver tubes before selecting the CV181-Z black bottle driver tubes, and they made a noticeable improvement, especially after burn-in.

The NOS RCA 6AS7G power tubes were the first replacement power tubes I've tried after lots of research. I would like to try either the Bendix or Tung Sol 6080WB power tubes, but they are hard to find and expensive. I've been told the newer versions of classic tubes are "thinner" sounding while original NOS tubes are "fuller" or "richer". I tend to agree that the NOS RCA 6AS7G power tubes are lush and rich.

There are many other opinions on tube rolling, but hopefully this can give you a starting point.

- Dave


----------



## wkndWarrior

ViperGeek said:


> Hi wkndWarrior.
> 
> A ways back in this thread, I made a list of prospective driver and power tubes for my Mk VI+ here:
> 
> ...


Great, thank you for replying 
Does both of the drivertubes you speak of fit without adapters or modifications?
/Mattias


----------



## ViperGeek (Sep 5, 2017)

wkndWarrior said:


> Great, thank you for replying
> Does both of the drivertubes you speak of fit without adapters or modifications?
> /Mattias


Hi Mattias.

The Tung Sol 6SL7GT fit without an adapter, but the fatter base on the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z driver tubes require an adapter such as:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Octal-G...4-GZ34-KT88-6V6-6L6-5Z3P-6SN7GT-/191109289479

Note that the higher end Shuguang CV181-TII tubes don't require an adapter, but are quite expensive.

- Dave


----------



## wkndWarrior

ViperGeek said:


> Hi Mattias.
> 
> The Tung Sol 6SL7GT fit without an adapter, but the fatter base on the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z driver tubes require an adapter such as:
> 
> ...


Ok thanks, i will look them up...

/Mattias


----------



## greenkiwi

Is there any particular way to know if you're tubes are in need of replacement?


----------



## ViperGeek (Sep 6, 2017)

greenkiwi said:


> Is there any particular way to know if you're tubes are in need of replacement?


Very imprecisely, two indicators of tube failure (other than total blowout) are:

Noticeable increase in distortion or decrease in gain in one channel*
Noticeable decrease in the meters, which show the working positive (+ve) plate current for one of each pair of power tubes
*There are many other possible reasons for gain loss or distortion, but swapping tubes left↔right is an easy way to rule out the tubes.

- Dave

ps. See also: http://blog.thetubestore.com/how-to-tell-if-your-tube-is-bad/


----------



## wkndWarrior

ViperGeek said:


> Hi Mattias.
> 
> The Tung Sol 6SL7GT fit without an adapter, but the fatter base on the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z driver tubes require an adapter such as:
> 
> ...


Hi
Have one pair of Psvane CV181-TII on the way, very good customer service at psvane and they answered a ton of questions before i decided to order 
Looking forward to some try them out.
Still looking for two pairs of powertubes...


----------



## gug42

Do you have others tubes to compare with them ?


----------



## wkndWarrior

gug42 said:


> Do you have others tubes to compare with them ?


Not at the moment, planning to order some Nos tubes as well later on...Read some reviews on them that were very good so i will give them a chance  
Done a lot of tuberolling on my former amp LD MKIV SE so i know what kind of sound i'm after...


----------



## wkndWarrior

Anyone knows were you can buy a custom volume nobb for the mkvi+? Would like one in polished brass


----------



## rudra

worthwhile posting in the mod thread. You probably will have better luck getting an answer


----------



## wkndWarrior

rudra said:


> worthwhile posting in the mod thread. You probably will have better luck getting an answer


Ok, thanks for the tip


----------



## baronbeehive

wkndWarrior said:


> Another noob question from me hope thats ok.
> Ordered a LD MKVI+ Yesterday and plan to do some tube rolling when it arrives (coming from an LD MKIV SE and tried some different tubes on that one).
> I googled to try to find some good replacement tubes but love to get some suggestions from members in this forum. I will start with tubes that don't require any mods being done to the amplifier itself.
> Can anyone point me in the right direction
> I love when the sound is a little more warm than cold if that helps. Looking for both Driver and Power tubes. It rather be NOS tubes than modern tubes.



I also had a much loved MKivSE when I put a tungsol in that one I never looked back, so maybe I can help as I've tried a few tubes to get the sound I want from the Mkvi+. First for that warm snug sound the 6AS7G RCA's for power tubes as someone has said. Then if you still want a warm sound, it becomes a problem if you also put in, say RCA 6SN7's because it could be too mellow.... so you have to mix and match, warm power tubes and clearer drivers, or clear power tubes and warm drivers. I put in the Tungsol 6SL7's and have more or less stayed ever since, after a bit of experimentation, well a lot actually!



ViperGeek said:


> Hi wkndWarrior.
> 
> A ways back in this thread, I made a list of prospective driver and power tubes for my Mk VI+ here:
> 
> ...



Agreed! The Bendix are some of the best you can buy, and very well constructed with a nice very open detailed smooth sound, but the RCA's are still very good if you can't get hold of the Bendixes.



wkndWarrior said:


> Anyone knows were you can buy a custom volume nobb for the mkvi+? Would like one in polished brass



SonicTrance should be able to tell you about that, he has a nice gold one.... but he didn't tell me where he got it from!


----------



## wkndWarrior

baronbeehive said:


> I also had a much loved MKivSE when I put a tungsol in that one I never looked back, so maybe I can help as I've tried a few tubes to get the sound I want from the Mkvi+. First for that warm snug sound the 6AS7G RCA's for power tubes as someone has said. Then if you still want a warm sound, it becomes a problem if you also put in, say RCA 6SN7's because it could be too mellow.... so you have to mix and match, warm power tubes and clearer drivers, or clear power tubes and warm drivers. I put in the Tungsol 6SL7's and have more or less stayed ever since, after a bit of experimentation, well a lot actually!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## baronbeehive

Just in passing, the MKVI+ has changed some of the internals, resistors/caps types, I believe it now has wimas for coupling caps for example, since it first came out and I was interested in how this affected the sound, but I doubt if there is any way of knowing.

Good to know people are still enjoying this amp, I'm about 10 years on with mine and its going nowhere! I find it a bit disappointing that little is known about it outside the forums, I don't believe there has been any reviews of it lately for example, since it was publicised a lot on headfi a while ago.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Just found out my little dot mk viii has channel imbalance just realize this when I use it as a pre on my speaker setup. Volume pot issue I think, problem is the volume does not equalize when I turn the volume up. Now Can anyone point me(link if posible) for a compatible replacement for the pot? stepped attenuator if posible? Please advise to those with the know how


----------



## xenithon

Hi all. I have four quick questions for those that have owned / used the MKVIII SE:
- how long would you suggest for burn-in of the amp from new?
- each time you turn it on, how long would you typically say it took to warm up until it started sounding its best?
- when you turn it on, how long does it take your amp to "stabilize" whereby the meters are on and showing the right reading?
- do you plug your headphones in before switching on (so there is a load) or only after (in case there is a DC dump)?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## baronbeehive

xenithon said:


> Hi all. I have four quick questions for those that have owned / used the MKVIII SE:
> - how long would you suggest for burn-in of the amp from new?
> - each time you turn it on, how long would you typically say it took to warm up until it started sounding its best?
> - when you turn it on, how long does it take your amp to "stabilize" whereby the meters are on and showing the right reading?
> ...



Hi Xenithon

There's not many bods around here any more so I will answer you, although I have a MKVi not MKViii:

I would burn the amp in for around 100hours, or thereabouts, longer is not necessary and you should start to hear the bass tighten up and the treble smooth down, and the soundstage open up quite early on.
I can't remember without re-reading the entire thread but someone said that it was best after around 15 or 20 minutes if I remember right, I haven't noticed myself
The meters should stabilize after around 2 minutes is normal to give the heaters time to warm up the tubes, they will overshoot initially then stabilize when they autobias
No need to worry about plugging your headphones in, there is a dummy load so you can leave them out until after you switch on.

Sorry you had to wait but I hope you get to enjoy your amp now!


----------



## Maxx134

*Truthfully the MK6 is the only commercial tube amp that has both power and is balanced!..

 I don't see nothing nothing else out there ,
and nobody wants to go near this amp because it has the dam cheap image ,
and it's all the company's fault for making cheap stuff !!

they should have promoted better.
They do not have any promotion,
and people have thinking it's not good, and they are in some respect correct,
Because it needs to be and must be modded to scale up..
Only modded can it climb to higher end game heights.

But there is nothing better than a modded MK6 out there for the price ...
There is no tube amps powerful enough that are both OTL and OCL AND BALANCED ..
You MUST go DIY to get better..
OR be ready to spend well over $2k..

l it is a damn shame that people don't realize there really isn't nothing commercially better out there below $2k then a modded MK6...
You just gotta go used $2k market or DIY.

 I see tube speaker amps with more power,
 but they have the wrong impedance,
and most have garbage choice of driver stage design and choice of tubes just for power..

Headphone amps need a greater level of Clarity as they have to be more transparent, nuanced and holographic.

Most speaker amps do not have this quality and rely on room placement for soundstage...
So far I believe it is the choice of error correction that can mask these nuances (in both signal and phase) and end up masking with a fake black noise floor.. But thats my guess.

The speaker amps out there have many compromises like paralleled tubes and crappy driver stages and 
crappy coupling of stages and use of rectifier tubes instead of accepting the better SS rectifier devices out now...

Why add more variables with a rectifier tube?
I owned the woo wa7 and heard the effects on amps and DACs using rectifier tubes..
We don't need that.

Alot is done to appease consumer ignorance, like choice of tubes and style.

I have observed way too many expensive amps relying on crappy coupling caps and purist designs without SS help.
*Rant over**

No matter what tube amp you buy today it WILL be compromised...


----------



## xenithon

baronbeehive said:


> Hi Xenithon
> 
> There's not many bods around here any more so I will answer you, although I have a MKVi not MKViii:
> 
> ...



Many thanks for the excellent info - it is very much appreciated!


----------



## baronbeehive

Maxx134 said:


> *Truthfully the MK6 is the only commercial tube amp that has both power and is balanced!..
> 
> I don't see nothing nothing else out there ,
> and nobody wants to go near this amp because it has the dam cheap image ,
> ...



If it wasn't for people on head-fi there would be no knowledge at all of this excellent Chinese company, customer relations is quite good so I can't understand why they can't find out how to market themselves better!



Maxx134 said:


> *......
> 
> I see tube speaker amps with more power,
> but they have the wrong impedance,
> ...



I enjoyed the rant lol!

Yes there are some great Chinese, and Japanese speaker amps out there but I would not think they would be as great for headphone use as well. I was looking for one that did both and couldn't find one so I'm happy with my choice of serarate ones for each.


----------



## bloodhawk

Got my Little Dot VI+ today. And boy even with the stock tubes (Thomson JAN 6080WA + OTK 6H9C) this amps sounds so much better than the Crack. (Single Ended) 

So i before i start tube rolling tomorrow, i thought id try some weird things with the HD800S...

- Single Ended NFB 11.28 RCA  out to the VI+'s RCA in - Sound nice.. good amount of low end. Very close to the low end of the Crack (heavily modded - https://imgur.com/a/dxhUq and running a 5998 + Tungsram E80CC).

- Single Ended NFB 11.28 RCA  out to the VI+'s RCA in - Output to HD800S balanced cable (https://imgur.com/a/dzrCq - made one on my own) - Sounds nice, maybe a bit more separation, but the low end is pretty much gone.

- Single Ended NFB 11.28 RCA  out to XLR in's on the VI+ using RCA to XLR 3 Pin cables. (separate cable L & R - used this one  : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M6A73GA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) - OH BOI!! Low end is back, and the separation improved even more! 

- Balanced out from the Schiit Gungnir to CLR in's on the VI+ - Literally sounds the same as the one above (RCA to XLR inputs). Im sure with better tubes ill see more of a difference (maybe?) 

End of the day im super happy with this amp, and going to stick with my NFB 11.28 and instead spend that saved cash on upgrading the VI+'s internals! 

Time to tear down the crack and re assemble it inside a 10"x10" chassis, with the switches easily accessible! 

Another thing i should have mentioned, VI+ vs. WA22 with the upgraded tubes, Jesus Christ WA 22 feels so badly overpriced. Good thing i held out and went for this baby.


----------



## Maxx134 (Jan 30, 2018)

ViKiD(TM) said:


> this amps sounds so much better than the *****. (





ViKiD(TM) said:


> Another thing i should have mentioned, VI+ vs ****



I am NOT naming names.
I heard them and a lot more.

I love tube amps.
There is alot of really nice amps out there, but all need work to me.
Absolutely Nothing out there that I would trade my MK8 for, except the wa33.
Even then not willingly.

This amp makes good use of complete balanced design,
to its main and very noticeable advantage.

Yet I remember stock it was not at top, just a really nice upper mid grade type performance.

Do yourself favor and work on its weaknesses in the mod thread.

It Will climb very very high.
Other than that, a total DIY amp of superior design would be needed to go higher.
OR big money on tube amp trying lol.


----------



## bloodhawk

Maxx134 said:


> I am NOT naming names.
> I heard them and a lot more.
> 
> I love tube amps.
> ...



Oh yeah totally agreed. Already ordered some Audyn True Copper caps (0.68 uF 630V) (Not really a fan of Mundorf Supreme SGO's for what they cost). Will do the caps first over the weekend, next will be the resistors and the bias switch along with replacing the wiring with silver coated single core 600V wire.

Got a bunch of 5998's, RCA 6AS7G's, Tungsol 6080's and a few Winged C 6H13C's. Along with some really nice Sylvania Bad Boys. So im pretty covered on the tube end of things  

Will post in the mod thread soon.


----------



## xenithon

Quick question for MkVIII owners. Can you only roll in 12AT7's in the preamp tube section, or would others in the family work too (such as the 12AU7 or 12AX7)? The manual does not say much other than saying the likes of the ECC802s / ECC803s work but those are silly expensive!


----------



## bloodhawk

Im loving the TS 5998 + 6H13C + TS 5998 + 6H13C with RCA 6SN7 GTB combo for now. Next ill be trying the Bad boys and the CV181-TII's with the same power tubes. 

Been trying to find the GEC 6080 / TungSol 6AS7G for reasonable prices, but its been almost impossible.


----------



## SonicTrance

@bloodhawk 
When you're mixing tubes that bias very differently, like the 5998 and 6H13C, what's the bias at the output tubes? What are the meters reading?


----------



## bloodhawk

SonicTrance said:


> @bloodhawk
> When you're mixing tubes that bias very differently, like the 5998 and 6H13C, what's the bias at the output tubes? What are the meters reading?


Both are at about a bit over 55. 
If I only use 5998's x 4 , then bias drops to 30-35.


----------



## bloodhawk (Feb 3, 2018)

Some observations from all the tube rolling i have been doing over the last 2-3 days -



> Im loving the TS 5998 + 6H13C + TS 5998 + 6H13C with RCA 6SN7 GTB combo for now. Next ill be trying the Bad boys and the CV181-TII's with the same power tubes.
> 
> Been trying to find the GEC 6080 / TungSol 6AS7G for reasonable prices, but its been almost impossible.





> Yeah, the TS 5998's really bring out the Mid's and a nice extension on the high end. The 6H13C's are bass monsters
> The RCA 6AS7's on their own are really really well balanced tubes, but i didnt like them when paired up with the 5998's. But im sure there are people who will prefer that combination. I wont be using the TS 7236's without the 6H13C's at all. I remember when i last tried my friends 7236 in my crack, the high was super sharp, good extension, but way too sharp.





> ooooh boy, TS5998+6H13C+TS5998+6H13C with the Sylvania VT-231's makes the amps soooo much better. And this is without the mods. Cant wait to try out the CV181-TII's once they get here next week.





> Some observations regarding the Tung Sol 7236 tubes ( I grabbed 4 of these NOS)
> 
> - 3 are dual round getters (Horse shoe?)
> 
> ...


----------



## klnglim

SoundEngineer said:


> This is my PIMP MY AMP project.
> 
> Stage 1:
> Gold meter and gold volume knob.
> ...


Have u thought of using laptop cooler instead of upgrade internal fans? At least u don't need to use higher feet, more quiet environment, use separate USB adaptor to run the cooler better than share current from the amp, save u some cost as well


----------



## klnglim

Maxx134 said:


> This is really an excellent post, I hope Ur still alive from the mods you was onto lol.
> 
> Anyways I found that on the MK8, there is also a need for a fan as this unit can get nice and toasty hot as is in stock form
> 
> ...


have you thought of using laptop cooler instead of install fan at the bottom of the amp?


----------



## Topodomain

Hi,

I'm thinking to get MK VI+, but should i also get Mundorff cap upgrade? What about balanced DAC's? NFB-1.38? Something from Gustard? What would be good match to VI+?


----------



## rudra

Topodomain said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm thinking to get MK VI+, but should i also get Mundorff cap upgrade? What about balanced DAC's? NFB-1.38? Something from Gustard? What would be good match to VI+?



Get the mundorf caps. I got mine factory fitted.  I haven't used a NFB 1.38 but used to have a NFB 17.32 but prefer the Denafrips R2R. YMMV


----------



## thompsontechs

Something to think about when getting the Mundorf caps. There will be no room for the fans in the unit and it will got very hot! I got some usb fans and mounted them on the outside to combat the issue.


----------



## bloodhawk (Feb 10, 2018)

thompsontechs said:


> Something to think about when getting the Mundorf caps. There will be no room for the fans in the unit and it will got very hot! I got some usb fans and mounted them on the outside to combat the issue.



Heres the solution to that (make sure you get new taller feet) -



bloodhawk said:


> Just finished installing the Audyn's -
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/y6gZP
> 
> ...


----------



## rudra

thompsontechs said:


> Something to think about when getting the Mundorf caps. There will be no room for the fans in the unit and it will got very hot! I got some usb fans and mounted them on the outside to combat the issue.


 
Not of a big deal as I use a laptop cooler.


----------



## thompsontechs

rudra said:


> Not of a big deal as I use a laptop cooler.



I have one of those as well, and it was not sufficient for my needs, the amp still was very hot. There was not enough flow directed into the holes where the fans were. YMMV


----------



## rudra

look like I get a lot more mileage than yours . I have used the amp for 3 - 4 hours without any issues. may be we use different laptop coolers.


----------



## xenithon

Quick question. The Mk8 has tube protectors which comprises the bottom ring (attached to the top plate of amp chassis), stand-offs about the height of the tubes, and the top ring. The top ring can easily be taken off using allen keys; but does anyone know how to take off the stand-offs? Not too worries about leaving the bottom ring attached to the chassis (believe you have to take the entire top plate off in order to remove those).


----------



## davveswe

How good is the little dot mk VIII SE? And compared to other amps? 

Thanks


----------



## davveswe

colliedoggy said:


> I have just bought a mk viii se.
> 
> I suspect there may be a minor fault on the circuit which I want to deal with as soon as possible.
> 
> ...




Did you find out what the problem was? seems like others have the same problem?


----------



## colliedoggy

No! A powerful laptop cooler wasn't enough to solve the problem.

The unit is currently mothballed. I've been too preoccupied with other matters to address the problem.


----------



## bloodhawk

colliedoggy said:


> No! A powerful laptop cooler wasn't enough to solve the problem.
> 
> The unit is currently mothballed. I've been too preoccupied with other matters to address the problem.



Umm flipping over the fans to the outside of the chasis works wonders. Just needs much taller feet - 

https://imgur.com/a/XLUO2


----------



## davveswe

bloodhawk said:


> Umm flipping over the fans to the outside of the chasis works wonders. Just needs much taller feet -
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/XLUO2




I dont think the mk8 comes with fans, only mk6..not sure if it even has fans anymore


----------



## bloodhawk

davveswe said:


> I dont think the mk8 comes with fans, only mk6..not sure if it even has fans anymore


Ahh Didint realize you guys were talking about the MK8 , my bad.

But its weird why they would remove the fans from an amp that clearly needs them.


----------



## baronbeehive (Aug 2, 2018)

bloodhawk said:


> Ahh Didint realize you guys were talking about the MK8 , my bad.
> 
> But its weird why they would remove the fans from an amp that clearly needs them.



I believe the MKVI will always have fans, Little Dot themselves always recommend to have the fans on although they also say that it's not necessary to have them at all times, eg depending on ambient temperature. But the size and heat of the tubes on the MKVI is what makes them necessary but not on the MKVIII.



davveswe said:


> How good is the little dot mk VIII SE? And compared to other amps?
> 
> Thanks



It is top notch - after some simple mods that Little Dot used to offer as a package, such as caps and wiring, - as others here have found, I will leave it to them to say though, but some members have had the priviledge of attending meets where they were able to compare with all top amps.

As standard it is an extremely good amp with super soundstage and holography, comparing favouraly with some Woo amps for example. Also you won't find another balanced amp at this price point.



colliedoggy said:


> No! A powerful laptop cooler wasn't enough to solve the problem.
> 
> The unit is currently mothballed. I've been too preoccupied with other matters to address the problem.



Hi colliedoggy, you should come on to the mods thread again, I'm sure we could help with that, Maxx has had something very similar which was a cold solder joint. Myself, I had the unit mothballed for around a year but eventually the problem turned out to be something very simple.

*Edit: I can't find your original post but I think you said that one meter reading dropped after a while when switched on. This sounds like classic cold solder, initially no problems but as the unit heats up and the joints expand the contact becomes intermittent. The way to check this out is to find which of the 4 circuits is causing the problem and isolate the problem connection with a multimeter. A cold solder is often apparent visually as a dimpled, dull looking join, often just pulling at it will pull it apart. If you know how to isolate the problem circuit that's good, otherwise you could check out the supermod thread again.

You could also do a visual check to see that the pads haven't lifted. Yours doesn't seem to be a major problem, shame to mothball your unit!

Good luck!*


----------



## smodtactical

Do you guys think the MK VIII would be a good fit for my headphone collection ? Thanks.


----------



## Svatopluk

smodtactical said:


> Do you guys think the MK VIII would be a good fit for my headphone collection ? Thanks.


I have the HD800S, it's great with the MK VII. As long as most of your headphones are high to medium impedance, the MK VII will work fine.


----------



## AthenaZephyrian

There are circuits that will cause the amp/headphone combination to behave as though the load is higher impedance/the amp is lower impedance.  It's not the typical in-line resistor, which will do quite the opposite.  It's at the bottom section of the hyperlinked post.  You may need a bit of soldering skill.

_P.S. I feel so poor.  I only have a I+.   Somebody donate a MKVIII to this underprivileged audiophile.  A little donation goes a long way.  (I'm kidding, hopefully obviously)_


----------



## NNewman

Hello. I m looking for a good pair to my SS headphone amp in the tube field. Currently I m choosing between Elekit 8600, LD mk6 and LD mk8 se. Tube pair is seems to be "working" only with HD800 and LCD4.
LD mk6 is not preffered as it has an active cooling and for a bed time setup it might be crazy bad idead. My wife might send me out to sleep on the coach.  But I must be 100% sure if MK8se is really good pair for LCD4... 
Please share with me your oppinion about this 3 variants.
P.S. Elekit is a 300b amp - my favourite tube.


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi All,
Can some kind soul furnish me with the manual and schematics for the Little Dot MK Vi. Also is it possible to have a list of basic mods that can be done. I have read the mod thread but its too technical for me. I hope someone can help me with a simple list. Thank you all. Much appreciated.


----------



## ViperGeek

Sage Encore said:


> Hi All,
> Can some kind soul furnish me with the manual and schematics for the Little Dot MK Vi. Also is it possible to have a list of basic mods that can be done. I have read the mod thread but its too technical for me. I hope someone can help me with a simple list. Thank you all. Much appreciated.


Hi Sage.

I can't help you with a mods list (other than recommended tube rolling), but the official Mk VI+ page is:

http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=831

and includes a (Dropbox) link to the manual:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ros42b1n4a0vitj/Little Dot MK VI+ Reference Guide.pdf?dl=0

- Dave


----------



## Sage Encore

ViperGeek said:


> Hi Sage.
> 
> I can't help you with a mods list (other than recommended tube rolling), but the official Mk VI+ page is:
> 
> ...


Hi


ViperGeek said:


> Hi Sage.
> 
> I can't help you with a mods list (other than recommended tube rolling), but the official Mk VI+ page is:
> 
> ...



Hi Dave,
Thank you very much for your help. I am looking for the schematic drawing for the LD MK Vi, one doesn't seem to be available. I don't mind getting the list for the tube rolling as well. Thanks Dave.


----------



## SonicTrance

Sage Encore said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Hi Dave,
> Thank you very much for your help. I am looking for the schematic drawing for the LD MK Vi, one doesn't seem to be available. I don't mind getting the list for the tube rolling as well. Thanks Dave.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...e-on-first-page.782183/page-180#post-13978373


----------



## ViperGeek

Sage Encore said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Hi Dave,
> Thank you very much for your help. I am looking for the schematic drawing for the LD MK Vi, one doesn't seem to be available. I don't mind getting the list for the tube rolling as well. Thanks Dave.



You're very welcome.  In addition to the amazing link SonicTrance shared above, here's my original post on my collected favorites for tube rolling so far:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...se-owners-unite.522099/page-150#post_12203881

- Dave


----------



## Sage Encore

SonicTrance said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...e-on-first-page.782183/page-180#post-13978373





SonicTrance said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...e-on-first-page.782183/page-180#post-13978373


Thank you very much sir, I am getting a friend of mine who is well versed in electronics to just change out some of the caps and resistors. Nothing too fancy. He tells me the green RIFA caps change out will make give the best improvement. He recommended going with something from TDK, EPCOS or Sprague for the original Philips caps.


----------



## Sage Encore

ViperGeek said:


> You're very welcome.  In addition to the amazing link SonicTrance shared above, here's my original post on my collected favorites for tube rolling so far:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...se-owners-unite.522099/page-150#post_12203881
> 
> - Dave


I am currently running 7236 with Kenrad 231. I do have Sylania 229 as well. I am on high gain as my Abyss Phi CC is a hungry beast, not so the LCD-3f. Trying to get 5998 for the power tubes, but they are quite ex and difficult to get though a friend of mine as 4 of them and willing to let go. Let's see.


----------



## baronbeehive

Sage Encore said:


> Hi All,
> Can some kind soul furnish me with the manual and schematics for the Little Dot MK Vi. Also is it possible to have a list of basic mods that can be done. I have read the mod thread but its too technical for me. I hope someone can help me with a simple list. Thank you all. Much appreciated.



My suggestions for mods would be:

1 - most important - *coupling caps* x 4:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/1501522-0-47uf-audyn-cap-true-copper-capacitor.html
or something cheaper:
Russian caps such as: *K75-10, or K73-16
*
2 - almost as important as coupling caps - *WCF caps* x 4: same as above

3 - Anode resistors x 4:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/content/cm2-550-68k-2w-tkd-correctohm-metal-film-resistor

4 - Cathode resistors x 2:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/res05s590-390k-shinkoh-resistor-p-2049.html

The anode/cathode resistor changes will increase liveliness of the amp considerably, but they will work best if you are using 6SL7 tubes. If you chose the Russian caps these mods would not be expensive but I have no experience of these caps.

The drawback is you will need to remove the PCB in order to solder the new parts in place.

Any questions about these mods, just check up page one of the supermods thread that SonicTrance posted or post a question on that thread and we will be happy to help!


----------



## Angertobi

Hy 

Has anybody a good advice for a dac in combination with the mk vi+ ?

Thinking to buy a LKS MH-Da004 ,but i am not shure if it a good combi


----------



## Sage Encore

baronbeehive said:


> My suggestions for mods would be:
> 
> 1 - most important - *coupling caps* x 4:
> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/1501522-0-47uf-audyn-cap-true-copper-capacitor.html
> ...




Thank you sir, really appreciate it. Makes it so much easier now.


----------



## Sage Encore

Angertobi said:


> Hy
> 
> Has anybody a good advice for a dac in combination with the mk vi+ ?
> 
> Thinking to buy a LKS MH-Da004 ,but i am not shure if it a good combi


I am using Denafrips Pontus with the LD Mkvi driving my Abyss and LCD3f. I have a Singxer in tow as well.


----------



## Angertobi

Okay thankks. Pontus come on my list . also think about a audio-gd nfb 7.77. 

Why the Singxer ? is it better to reclock a r2r signal ?


----------



## Sage Encore

Angertobi said:


> Okay thankks. Pontus come on my list . also think about a audio-gd nfb 7.77.
> 
> Why the Singxer ? is it better to reclock a r2r signal ?


Good lord, sorry for delayed reply. It’s there so that I can use is2 hdmi connection.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 8, 2019)

Happy New Year to all Litlle Dot MK VI(+) and VIII owners! 

Yesterday I joined to the club with a VI+ model. So far so good, I'm very happy with the sound signature of this steampunk device. 
This is a used, four years old amp with upgraded fans and it supports my HPs as well as my ProAc speakers over Electrocompaniet or diy Pass Labs Aleph 5 power amps .



 A few months ago I've read myself thorough the thread, but there are a tremendous quantity of information.
I'll start it again, but until then I really appreciate any help or link to a few good power tube sets around EUR 20-50/piece (max EUR 200 for the set of four) which can offer me even better results than the stock tubes.

I plan Shuguang Black Treasure in the front row, as it has been serving me very well in my Darkvoice 336SE.
As far as I see, it is possible to use it without an adapter. Due the smaller diameter of the hole, it doesn't reach the bottom of the plate but fits very secure and lights up when I power-on the amp.
On the other hand I don't want to risk anything, so I might buy tube saver adapters if it's mandatory.

I've a small, but somewhat annoying issue with the amp. There is a quiet but audible (around 30-35dB/600-650Hz) noise from the tubes or the power transformer cubes when I attach the power tubes.
Has anybody faced with the same problem? What is the solution to get rid of the noise?

Thanks in advance for any help regarding the tube replacement or the noise problem!


----------



## ViperGeek (Jan 8, 2019)

MelonHead said:


> Happy New Year to all Litlle Dot MK VI(+) and VIII owners!
> 
> Yesterday I joined to the club with a VI+ model. So far so good, I'm very happy with the sound signature of this steampunk device.
> This is a used, four years old ampwith upgraded fans and it supports my HPs as well as my ProAc speakers over Electrocmpaniet or diy Pass Labs Aleph 5 power amps .
> ...



Happy New Year, and welcome to the LD MK VI+ Fan Club!

Without a doubt, the Little Dot MK VI+/VIII headphone amps punch well above their weight class.  Occasionally, I start my eye wandering for something better (read: more expensive), but I'm usually surfing while listening to my MK VI+ driving LCD-4s, ultimately come to the epiphany that I'm already in an audio zen state and have no need to continue to pursue the obsession.

Early on, I posted a list of Likely Suspects for tube rolling:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...se-owners-unite.522099/page-150#post_12203881

I'm currently rocking:


Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z black bottle driver tubes
RCA 6AS7G vintage NOS matched power tubes

and am quite happy.  But of course, there's no end to tube rolling, so these will likely not be my last set.

I'm not directly familiar with the noise you describe, but can tell you my MK VI+ is not perfectly silent, even with quieter fans.  Might be part of the charm, but I'd be curious what others think.

- Dave


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 8, 2019)

ViperGeek said:


> Happy New Year, and welcome to the LD MK VI+ Fan Club!
> 
> Without a doubt, the Little Dot MK VI+/VIII headphone amps punch well above their weight class.  Occasionally, I start my eye wandering for something better (read: more expensive), but I'm usually surfing while listening to my MK VI+ driving LCD-4s, ultimately come to the epiphany that I'm already in an audio zen state and have no need to continue to pursue the obsession.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response @ViperGeek!
I'll check the RCA tubes definitely as well as your other recommendations  You have saved me a few hours of searching. 
Do you need adapters for the Shuguangs?

I'll uninstall the fans tomorrow to check whether they are responsible for the noise or not.
I'm still not familiar with the Little Dot MKVI+, but made some evaluation regarding that strange sound.
When I turn the amp on, there is no noise, and only the left Vu meter lights. After 2-3 minutes, the right VU meter starts to light up slowly and somewhere in the middle of this process, I hear a small but audible click.
After this point the aforementioned noise is immediately there. I can locate it to somewhere close the left transformer or the left two power tubes.
When I remove all the power tubes, the noise fades away.


----------



## ViperGeek (Jan 8, 2019)

MelonHead said:


> Thanks for the response @ViperGeek!
> I'll check the RCA tubes definitely as well as your other recommendations  You have saved me a few hours of searching.
> Do you need adapters for the Shuguangs?


You're very welcome.

The Shuguang CV181-Z drivers need adapters, but the more expensive CV181-TII drivers have a smaller base and do not need adapters.  Checking out their website, I guess the CV181-Zs aren't available anymore.
[UPDATE: Google says they're available elsewhere.]

I kinda like the look of the gold stands:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Gold-EL3...al-Vacuum-Tube-Socket-Saver-Base/312204616309

Good luck, and happy rolling!

- Dave


----------



## MelonHead

I've made an order for 3 (1 spare in case of failure) pieces of the linked adapter. Thanks again.


----------



## Sage Encore

Hi Guys,
I had some issues as well with the Driver tubes which were causing crakling noise. I read that we can use a soldering iron to clean each of the probes for about 30 seconds each, I tried it and it really worked. Word of caution though, the tube gets a tad bit warm so let it cool down prior to insertion into amp.

I am also trying to lay my hands on the Caig Deoxit. I can't seem to get it locally here in Singapore though. I have also been using Russian tubes from Melz factory, namely 1578 and 1579 and man I love them to death, very airy, soudstage, nice mids, good punch as well. Currently waiting for stocks to arrive for the 1578 Vintage Melz hole tubes.

I have a pair of Ken-Rad 231, but don't quiet like them in my setup. They sound pulled back, not as airy and soundstage is sorely lacking compared to the Russian counterpart. Go Russian, cheap and good I'd say. Currently waiting for my Shunyata Triton to arrive and a few more Russian tubeys to arrive. 

Might give the Psvane CV 181 MkTii a go soon. Thank you guys.


----------



## bloodhawk

Sage Encore said:


> .
> 
> Might give the Psvane CV 181 MkTii a go soon. Thank you guys.



Those are actually my favourites. Combined with 2 x Tung sol 5998 and 2 x 6N13S Svetlana's. 

Really love this combination.


----------



## Sage Encore

bloodhawk said:


> Those are actually my favourites. Combined with 2 x Tung sol 5998 and 2 x 6N13S Svetlana's.
> 
> Really love this combination.



Hi Bloodhawk,
U are using a combined tube setup for the Drivers? Interesting! I have some 6N13S incoming. I do have TS 7236, can they be a good combo?


----------



## bloodhawk

Sage Encore said:


> Hi Bloodhawk,
> U are using a combined tube setup for the Drivers? Interesting! I have some 6N13S incoming. I do have TS 7236, can they be a good combo?



Nope the CV181 mkii's as drivers and the others as power tubes in this order - 6H13S / 5998 / 6H13S / 5998. 

I was using the 7236's as well for a while. And they are almost as good.


----------



## Sage Encore

bloodhawk said:


> Nope the CV181 mkii's as drivers and the others as power tubes in this order - 6H13S / 5998 / 6H13S / 5998.
> 
> I was using the 7236's as well for a while. And they are almost as good.


My bad, I got the earlier post wrongly configured. Thanks for the clarification bud. 
So, the power tubes are a combo! Never tried that one before, I suppose it’s ok to try.

Can we use Psvane KT 88 Mkii tubes as Drivers? Or power for that matter. Just checking since a quad has come up for sale here. Thank you.


----------



## MelonHead

I've made further evaluations regarding my quiet but constant (30dB/650Hz) noise problem.

Today I disconnected the upgraded fans, but the noise remained, so I can exclude the fans as a possible source of the problem.
After this I switched off the amp and removed all the power tubes which resulted a silent amp. The noise has gone away.
As I put the tubes one after the other back I noticed a very-very quiet noise after the first tube, which has been developed further as I installed the others back.
After the four power tubes the noise level is the same as before.

I contacted a good technician nearby me who is specialized on tube amps. He will check it the next week.
Is there any PCB layout blueprint or other schematics available for the Little Dot MK VI+?  

Thanks for any additional help.


----------



## ViperGeek

MelonHead said:


> I contacted a good technician nearby me who is specialized on tube amps. He will check it the next week.
> Is there any PCB layout blueprint or other schematics available for the Little Dot MK VI+?


The only official Little Dot reference I'm aware of is:

http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=831

I recall someone had a reverse-engineered schematic at one point.  Maybe in the Little Dot Super-Mods thread?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...s-all-verified-mods-are-on-first-page.782183/

- Dave


----------



## SonicTrance

MelonHead said:


> Today I disconnected the upgraded fans, but the noise remained, so I can exclude the fans as a possible source of the problem.
> After this I switched off the amp and removed all the power tubes which resulted a silent amp. The noise has gone away.
> As I put the tubes one after the other back I noticed a very-very quiet noise after the first tube, which has been developed further as I installed the others back.
> After the four power tubes the noise level is the same as before.


I don't understand. Does the noise come through the headphones or does the actual components hum?

You should not run the amp without tubes as the power supply doesn't like it.



MelonHead said:


> Is there any PCB layout blueprint or other schematics available for the Little Dot MK VI+?


Here's the psu part. It's the same for mk6 excluding the tube circuits.






Audio circuit


----------



## SonicTrance

R2 and R3 are actually 220k in the original schematic.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 10, 2019)

Many thanks for the schematics @SonicTrance . I think it will make the task of my technician easier. 

The headphones and the speakers are completely silent. The hum is coming from the area of the transformers or the tubes I was not able to locate it even when my ears were 3 cm close to the running tubes.

Thanks for the notice as well. I read this tube removing process somewhere, and the driver tubes remained in their position, but I don't want to risk the amp. I was lucky enough and no problem occurred.


----------



## MelonHead

To save my ears from excessive heat, I used my kids' toy stethoscope to locate the problem better. 
I can't be sure, as an audible buzz comes from the transformer cubes over the stethoscope as well, but the tubes seems to be more suspicious concerning the aforementioned "hum" noise.


----------



## SonicTrance

MelonHead said:


> To save my ears from excessive heat, I used my kids' toy stethoscope to locate the problem better.
> I can't be sure, as an audible buzz comes from the transformer cubes over the stethoscope as well, but the tubes seems to be more suspicious concerning the aforementioned "hum" noise.


I've never heard a tube hum or buzz, except through the audio circuit. Tubes only make "pings" or "pops" while heating up. Transformers can hum though. If it's not loud it's probably fine.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 11, 2019)

SonicTrance said:


> I've never heard a tube hum or buzz, except through the audio circuit. Tubes only make "pings" or "pops" while heating up. Transformers can hum though. If it's not loud it's probably fine.


I don't have major problem with it in daytime, but I often use my system on low volume levels (55-65dB) during nights. In this scenario this hum(?) is somewhat annoying.
This is the frequency what comes from the power cubes or tubes:

Turning down the volume knob is mandatory as the SPL is not more than 32-38dB depending on the distance from the amp.


----------



## SonicTrance

MelonHead said:


> This is the frequency what comes from the power cubes or tubes:


Ok, now that's weird. That's neither a hum or buzz but a clean 630 Hz signal. I have no idea of what might be causing that.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 11, 2019)

Yep...
That's why I linked the 630Hz sine wave (it is a bit less, maybe 615Hz in reality) as this sound is not the standard transformer buzz or hum.
Anyway, I'm going to hand it over to the technician on Monday, and hopefully he will be able to solve this problem.


----------



## SonicTrance

MelonHead said:


> Yep...
> That's why I linked the 630Hz sine wave (it is a bit less, maybe 615Hz in reality) as this sound is not the standard transformer buzz or hum.
> Anyway, I'm going to hand it over to the technician on Monday, and hopefully he will be able to solve this problem.


Keep us updated. Gonna be interesting to hear whats causing the noise.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 14, 2019)

SonicTrance said:


> Keep us updated. Gonna be interesting to hear whats causing the noise.


I will.
Unfortunately my man went to sick leave today. Maybe tomorrow.

Meanwhile I made some post-processing on your photo for better visibility. If you don't mind, I share it here.


----------



## SonicTrance

MelonHead said:


> Meanwhile I made some post-processing on your photo for better visibility. If you don't mind, I share it here.


That's fine. And to clarify, its user @Redge78 that has drawn that psu schematic. Its posted on the first page in the mk6/8 modding thread.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 15, 2019)

SonicTrance said:


> That's fine. And to clarify, its user @Redge78 that has drawn that psu schematic. Its posted on the first page in the mk6/8 modding thread.


Thanks for mentioning the author SonicTrance!

*Annoying noise:*
I was a bit unsuccessful with the technician.
At least I know, this is a buzz which comes from the power transformer cubes and the two metal cover boxes emphasize and transform it to 35dB/600Hz.
Unfortunately we were unable to unscrew all the bolts, as the cover of the rectification part between the two metal cubes blocks the way to the inner bolts. He refused to spend more time with it, as the disassembling was too tricky. He a is well known and very busy guitar tube amplifier service expert here, who got used to much bigger devices. At least, he was honest and didn't accept any payment for his 30 minutes long task.

As I arrived back,  I was playing a bit with the transformer cover boxes. After unscrewing the outer bolts the intensity of the noise was remarkably lower. Pressing the boxes at some random points, and moving them a little, I was able to change the frequency and the intensity of the annoying sound to almost zero. So maybe some insulation between the cover boxes and the inner metal parts can totally solve my problem.

*Is there any uncomplicated way available to remove the power transformer cover boxes? *
Thanks in advance for any hints or help.

By the way, he mentioned, turning the amplifier on without the tubes means absolutely no problem. According to him there are some awkward designs where it may lead to troubles, but this is a well planned and assembled amplifier except the illogical placement of transformer cube screws. He demonstrated it by pulling out the power tubes, and testing the noise without them.

*Tube rolling:*
My 50th anniversary, matched Shuguang Black Treasures are on the way from Spain.
As a first, inexpensive batch of power tubes I ordered a quad of matched NOS Svetlana 6N13S "winged C" from the '70-s as well. As I've read the general consensus is positive, so any improvement compared to the stock tubes -which produces more than acceptable sound to me- is a good thing. They should arrive next week as well.
Meanwhile I tried two Shuguang 6AS7G-s (spare tubes for my Darkvoice 336SE) switching out the first and third stock power tubes. I know they don't have a good reputation, but using them I received a bit more holographic and clearer sound. Not a bad start.


----------



## SonicTrance (Jan 15, 2019)

MelonHead said:


> As I arrived back, I was playing a bit with the transformer cover boxes. After unscrewing the outer bolts the intensity of the noise was remarkably lower. Pressing the boxes at some random points, and moving them a little, I was able to change the frequency and the intensity of the annoying sound to almost zero. So maybe some insulation between the cover boxes and the inner metal parts can totally solve my problem.


Ok, now it sounds like you have vibrating power transformers. Don't remember if there's any anti-vibration pads under the transformers (don't have my mk6 anymore).



MelonHead said:


> Is it an easy way to remove the power transformer cover boxes?


If you can't get to the screws without removing the plate between the transformers you need to remove the pcb to get access to the screws for that plate. Removing the pcb is hard the first time you do it. Lots of info in the mod thread.



MelonHead said:


> By the way, he mentioned, turning the amplifier on without the tubes means absolutely no problem. According to him there are some awkward designs where it may lead to troubles, but this is a well planned and assembled amplifier except the illogical placement of transformer cube screws. He demonstrated it by pulling out the power tubes, and testing the noise without them.


If you power on without output tubes, the only load the psu sees is the 56k drain resistors. Then the zeners will see a much higher voltage and could get damaged or brake. The resistors that are in series with the zeners sets the current for the zeners. Those resistors will also burn at much higher voltage since they're already working very near their 0.5W rating. The voltage drop will be much higher across the series resistors causing more current to flow through them (and the zeners). Which in turn could brake the power transistors after the zeners.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks for the response SonicTrance!

So the implementation of the two cover boxes seems to be very problematic, as the complete PCB has to be disassembled in case of any problem with the PSU. 

But what really matters: without removing the transformer covers I was able to find a position where the noise has completely gone away. It's not permanent  solution as the outer bolts are not in their places, but what an interim relief! 

As I'm not an expert in any way, just shared his opinion. I do not advice to anybody to do this. Maybe I was lucky enough, but there is no problem with my LDMKVI+.


----------



## baronbeehive

MelonHead said:


> Thanks for the response SonicTrance!
> 
> So the implementation of the two cover boxes seems to be very problematic, as the complete PCB has to be disassembled in case of any problem with the PSU.
> 
> ...



You might be able to remove those screws with a small right angled screwdriver if you can get hold of one.

Re: the engineer, I've also had problems in the past with engineers refusing to work on the amp, it is particularly difficult, especially if you have filled up the insides with replacement caps such as we've done on the supermods thread, but after you've got used to taking the PCB out several times it does get easier.


----------



## MelonHead

baronbeehive said:


> You might be able to remove those screws with a small right angled screwdriver if you can get hold of one.
> 
> Re: the engineer, I've also had problems in the past with engineers refusing to work on the amp, it is particularly difficult, especially if you have filled up the insides with replacement caps such as we've done on the supermods thread, but after you've got used to taking the PCB out several times it does get easier.


Thanks, that's a good point!
I have a precision mechanics tool set somewhere.

Mine is factory a factory default device except the fan which has been upgraded by the former owner.
I'll give a few good months to the original setup, but I'm considering to join to the club and modify or upgrade the most important parts without expanding over the original chassis.


----------



## TheHighlander

New owner of a MKVI+. Very happy with them. Change the stock driver for a Tung sol 6NS7 and is another amp in details and quality. Thabks for all this infos in this forum. If I change the power tubes what kind of change I can feel in music?


----------



## ViperGeek

TheHighlander said:


> New owner of a MKVI+. Very happy with them. Change the stock driver for a Tung sol 6NS7 and is another amp in details and quality. Thabks for all this infos in this forum. If I change the power tubes what kind of change I can feel in music?



Congratulations on obtaining and enjoying the LD MK VI+. As a long-time owner and fan of the Little Dot tube amp line, I'm sure you'll have years of making beautiful music together.

In general, upgrading driver tubes makes more of a Sonic difference than upgrading power tubes. Having said that, after I upgraded to RCA 6AS7G vintage NOS matched power tubes, I noticed a very comfortable smoothness to the sound of my hard-to-drive LCD-4s.

Power tubes are a worthy upgrade, but result in a more subtle improvement.

- Dave


----------



## baronbeehive (Jan 18, 2019)

ViperGeek said:


> Having said that, after I upgraded to RCA 6AS7G vintage NOS matched power tubes, I noticed a very comfortable smoothness to the sound of my hard-to-drive LCD-4s.
> 
> - Dave



I'm still on my RCA's, they sound great on the modded LD, they're quite mellow on the stock amp but great despite that, but on the modded amp they change in character to match the mods somewhat.

But what I really like is.... they're cheap, suits me being bit of a cheapskate lol!

A different sharper sound can be had with TS 7236 or 6N13S Svetlana's for example, or TS 5998's will give you a very detailed, more liquid sound



MelonHead said:


> I'll give a few good months to the original setup, but I'm considering to join to the club and modify or upgrade the most important parts without expanding over the original chassis.



 Excellent idea!

On the Supermods thread we've managed to iron out weaknesses in the amp and push it to another level, you wouldn't believe!


----------



## TheHighlander

I think my MKVI+ came with a problem. Everytime I take out my headphone the level of the right side drops. And stay like this. Only after I turn it off and turn on again in the morning, it work. But again when i pulled out my headphone it drop again. Im concern because when i turn it on, even with all volume down, i head a "pop" in the headphone like the driver is receiving a lot of energy. What problem could be ?


----------



## MelonHead

baronbeehive said:


> I'm still on my RCA's, they sound great on the modded LD, they're quite mellow on the stock amp but great despite that, but on the modded amp they change in character to match the mods somewhat.
> 
> But what I really like is.... they're cheap, suits me being bit of a cheapskate lol!
> 
> ...



Thanks!
By that time I have to level myself up in soldering. 
I don't want to risk my LD MK VI+ because of the lack of soldering experience.


----------



## baronbeehive

TheHighlander said:


> I think my MKVI+ came with a problem. Everytime I take out my headphone the level of the right side drops. And stay like this. Only after I turn it off and turn on again in the morning, it work. But again when i pulled out my headphone it drop again. Im concern because when i turn it on, even with all volume down, i head a "pop" in the headphone like the driver is receiving a lot of energy. What problem could be ?



Is your MKVI+ new, it could be a loose connection inside if yours is second hand. Alternatively it could be a loose connection inside your XLR cable jack. Try it with the single ended jack.

When you take the headphone out of the socket do you mean the balanced socket?

Do you only hear the pop when you insert the headphone into the socket? If so it can be adjusted by turning the screws on the trimpot, that's not a problem.

What does your right meter read when it goes down? Both meters should read about 60mA for 6AS7G's and about 30mA for 5998's.


----------



## TheHighlander

I change the power drives position 2 and 3 to see whatt happend. Now they at least when I start they both go 60 DC mA. But when the time pass the right side start to drop. and get lower 20. Sometimes they come back to 60. Sometimes to the middle. But dont stay to much like this.


----------



## MelonHead

Do you have spare tubes to test them? I'm not experienced but can't rule out a bad tube as the source of your problem. 

As a good test -if you mean power tubes under "power drives"-  I would pull out tubes 1 and 2 and place them into the 3rd and 4th position and tubes 3 and 4 into 1st and 2nd. 
You can check whether the problem remains the same or wandered from right channel to the left.  If everything remain the same, you can swap the two driver tubes as well.


----------



## MelonHead

The Shuguang Treasure 50th years Anniv. Edition tubes has arrived, as well as the socket savers.
Forgive me, not installing the savers, but they look odd, as they are narrower than the bottom of the tube itself, as well as the holes are not enough deep and there is a 1mm gap between the bottom of the tube and the top of the saver.
On the other hand, the tubes works flawlessly without the tube saver in my setup and the difference between the originals and the Shuguangs are astonishing and bigger than I had been expecting for. 
More details and tightness overall without sacrificing the tube sound. More resolution at base frequencies, even lusher mids and a bit more sparkle in the highs. I used this type of tube from Shuguang in my Darkvoice 336SE, but still love it. 

 
The Svetlana Winged "C" is on the way. I expect to get them in 2-3 days.


----------



## SonicTrance

@MelonHead 
Have you installed the VU meters yourself? Or have LD replaced the mA bias meters with VU meters lately?


----------



## MelonHead

SonicTrance said:


> @MelonHead
> Have you installed the VU meters yourself? Or have LD replaced the mA bias meters with VU meters lately?


That's a good question. I was wondering, how you check the bias, as I have Vu meters. (The needle is there, but I used a slow shutter speed, and the amp was under operation, that's why it is not visible.)
I bought them in used condition from Norway. It's a four years old unit. I asked the seller, who is the original owner of the product, about any modification. He didn't mentioned anything else but the fan replacement. Isn't it a self biasing unit?


----------



## SonicTrance

MelonHead said:


> That's a good question. I was wondering, how you check the bias, as I have Vu meters. (The needle is there, but I used a slow shutter speed, and the amp was under operation, that's why it is not visible.)
> I bought them in used condition from Norway. It's a four years old unit. I asked the seller, who is the original owner of the product, about any modification. He didn't mentioned anything else but the fan replacement. Isn't it a self biasing unit?


Ok, someone has replaced the mA meters with VU meters then.
The bias meters are good to spot a tube that's going bad, not much else besides being cool to look at! The circuit is cathode biased so no adjustment. Only fixed resistors.


----------



## MelonHead

Thanks SonicTrance. 
So mine is somewhat unique. I really like the Vu meter as the needles are consantly moving, and it helps me to avoid additional distortions due unnecessary overdrive.


----------



## TheHighlander

MelonHead said:


> Do you have spare tubes to test them? I'm not experienced but can't rule out a bad tube as the source of your problem.
> 
> As a good test -if you mean power tubes under "power drives"-  I would pull out tubes 1 and 2 and place them into the 3rd and 4th position and tubes 3 and 4 into 1st and 2nd.
> You can check whether the problem remains the same or wandered from right channel to the left.  If everything remain the same, you can swap the two driver tubes as well.


Thanks for the reply.
I change all the position of the power tubes. And it still lowing the right side. Than I change the positions of the deivers tubes, that I still change for 2 tung sol and it was persisting the problem, and is look like that resolve  the problem. Need more tests.


----------



## MelonHead

Okay, so If I understand you correctly, the new driver tubes probably solve the problem. 
Keep us updating with the sequels!

Anyway I think, the Tung-sols are much better than the original driver tubes.


----------



## zakazak

Can anyone tell me the differences between the Mk6 vs Mk8?
Also, how do they compare against a Felike Elise?


----------



## viru5

Hi everyone!

I have been eyeing this amp for a while now and getting close to pulling the trigger. Love how it looks and it has almost everything I need (XLR, 1/4", RCA, balanced, pre-amp, quality, upgrade-able, looks nice... you get the point)!

Unfortunately, I am brand new to tube amps and am still learning..

What tubes could I roll with this? I know the obvious ones would be the exact same model # is ships with (12AT7 / ECC81) but for the other one, 6H30, I can only really find a few tubes being sold. Is there anything else compatible with 6H30PI similar to how 12AT7 is with ECC81 that would work with this amp? Looking  at online retailers there really isn't many options for 6H30 as far as I am aware and none of them seem appealing to me.

I like planars. Planar headphones do not play nice with tube amps as they are high voltage not high amperage (correct me if I'm wrong and have this vice versa?)

However, looking at the output of this amp it says output 1W per channel @ 300 ohms. I have Audeze LCD-2 which are 70 Ohm and need at least 250mW. I am also planning on getting Mr. Speaker Ether 2 which are 16 Ohm. I know it is not ideal, but, would this Little Dot be able to work with them still? I still have dynamic high ohm headphones which I know will shine with this amp. I am just so used to solid state and whatever I plug in will just work and be powered properly (HDVA 600).

Thank you for the information already provided (lots of reading!!) and thanks in advance for help with my newbie questions.

Cheers!


----------



## Maxx134 (Jun 2, 2019)

zakazak said:


> Can anyone tell me the differences between the Mk6 vs Mk8?
> Also, how do they compare against a Felike Elise?


The Elise is basically half an  amp, of what these are(!). 
So it's a way less powerful amp & simpler design. Otherwise its nice.



viru5 said:


> Thank you for the information already provided (lots of reading!!) and thanks in advance for help with my newbie questions.
> 
> Cheers!


You are looking at the LD MK8se which is less powerful than the LDMK6 that is recommended for the headphones you mentioned.

That being said, I still like my LDMK8, but am currently using the "Oblivion" amp wich is a hybrid and will cost you ALOT less money, as there is no need to mod/upgrade it.
These amps have more euphoric tube sound though.


----------



## greenkiwi

viru5 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I have been eyeing this amp for a while now and getting close to pulling the trigger. Love how it looks and it has almost everything I need (XLR, 1/4", RCA, balanced, pre-amp, quality, upgrade-able, looks nice... you get the point)!
> 
> ...



I have the MK 6 and have used it with my Ether Flow and LCD-2s, it works well.  I bought mine when I had my _end game_ headphones back in 2008, they were HD650s, and the amp was a great pairing.  That being said, I wouldn't buy it if my planned headphones were going to be planar.  If you want to go tubes, I'd look for a hybrid tube, the Monoprice Liquid Platinum, for example.


----------



## viru5

Maxx134 said:


> The Elise is basically half an  amp, of what these are(!).
> So it's a way less powerful amp & simpler design. Otherwise its nice.
> 
> 
> ...



That amp looks amazing and the specs on the sheet are also amazing. Unfortunately way pricer than my budget right now. I have a lead on a MK VIII SE for $550 that is open box with ~20hrs on it which is why I'm so determined to make it work with my setup. The oblivion doesn't have preamp out which I would like to incorporate to my speakers.




greenkiwi said:


> I have the MK 6 and have used it with my Ether Flow and LCD-2s, it works well.  I bought mine when I had my _end game_ headphones back in 2008, they were HD650s, and the amp was a great pairing.  That being said, I wouldn't buy it if my planned headphones were going to be planar.  If you want to go tubes, I'd look for a hybrid tube, the Monoprice Liquid Platinum, for example.



It looks like if I do want to use planars that the MK 6 will probably be better then. Ether Flow is 23ohms. My Endgame was the HD650's at the time too  

I have had my eyes on the Liquid Platinum as well, but it lacks the features I want such as a pre-amp out to go to my power amp for speakers.

Thank you all for the suggestions!


----------



## SonicTrance

viru5 said:


> The oblivion doesn't have preamp out which I would like to incorporate to my speakers.


Hi, I can build with pre amp out, no problem. PM me if your interested or have any questions.


----------



## greenkiwi

viru5 said:


> That amp looks amazing and the specs on the sheet are also amazing. Unfortunately way pricer than my budget right now. I have a lead on a MK VIII SE for $550 that is open box with ~20hrs on it which is why I'm so determined to make it work with my setup. The oblivion doesn't have preamp out which I would like to incorporate to my speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Oblivion looks really cool.

I'd definitely shy away from the MK 8, since it's really for high impedance headphones.

What DAC are you using?

I'd have some general usability concerns around my headphone amp as a preamp depending on whether or not it remembers volume levels and/or mutes the RCA outputs when you disconnect.  Also, I can't speak for others, but I found the preamp to be noisy when I tried it.  My stack was fully balanced Emotiva DC-1 >> LD MK VI >> nCore amps >> Maggie 3.6s, so not super efficient by any means.  Maybe there was something faulty with my VI, or some issue with all the connections.  Mine was pretty early in the MK VI life cycle, for example, it doesn't have the SE output on the front.

The Emotiva DC-1 was great, it had two separate memory settings.  Plug the headphones in and it's the last headphone volume and the speaker outputs are muted.  Unplug and the volume returns to your last speaker level.

Just to understand your current goal:
* Tube amp for planar headphones
* Option to have preamp output
* $550-700 budget (notice what I did there?  I'm an enabler ;-P )


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## Maxx134 (Jun 4, 2019)

greenkiwi said:


> If you want to go tubes, I'd look for a hybrid tube, the Monoprice Liquid Platinum, for example.


Power isn't everything.
I would not choose that.
It still land you in mid-fi territory, in which many options to stay with for enjoyment.
I would save and skip the sea of countless (and nice) mid-fi gear.



viru5 said:


> I have a lead on a MK VIII SE for $550 that is open box with ~20hrs on it which is why I'm so determined to make it work with my setup. The oblivion doesn't have preamp out which I would like to incorporate to my speakers


If you like this amp, you can still use it. It will still push planars ok, but you will notice the meters start to dip at 3/4 volume in stock form, and to get it sounding great you will have to do some mods at least.

I keep mine as it still nice euphoric, & also a top amp when moded", but the Oblivion" is my reference "end game" currently, and can be ordered customized.

You will read in the other "Little Dot supermod" thread (link in my sig)  that I was originally _not_ a fan of any hybrid design, until I compared the Oblivion and proved it to myself.
That one is a special hybrid.

For all the traditional tube designs,
I aknowledge the necessity of tunning of the circuits, and parts quality implementation, like in the supermod thread for the little dot amps,  and so going thru all that learning, it is such a change, relief, and revelation to have an amp that does not require this (in the Oblivion).
So, if you have a great deal, go with it.
Just remember that if you want to progress to end game level with unique design & at a reachable level, I cannot suggest anything else.


----------



## frank2908

Hi, I have a chord mojo and diy hd800. Which version , mkvi or mkviii is better? I would be happy if its the mk vi because its its che and look cooler with biger tubes
Compare to other amps just above $1000, like the woo wa2, bottlehead mainline or decware, feliks... should I just save my money and get these?


----------



## NNewman

frank2908 said:


> Hi, I have a chord mojo and diy hd800. Which version , mkvi or mkviii is better? I would be happy if its the mk vi because its its che and look cooler with biger tubes
> Compare to other amps just above $1000, like the woo wa2, bottlehead mainline or decware, feliks... should I just save my money and get these?


Hello. In my opinion Felix Audio Euforia in stock (only tube to change) will win among all listed above. I have it for a year already. 
If you will make all the upgrades available, then LD mk6/8 for sure. But "full pack" will cost you over 1000 usd in total...


----------



## Maxx134

frank2908 said:


> Hi, I have a chord mojo and diy hd800. Which version , mkvi or mkviii is better? I would be happy if its the mk vi because its its che and look cooler with biger tubes
> Compare to other amps just above $1000, like the woo wa2, bottlehead mainline or decware, feliks... should I just save my money and get these?


I would Focus on amps that have more upgrade potential,  and give more for the money.

So my personal preference  would be the either the LD amps or the Woo amps in general.
Everybody have different taste and preferences.


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## baronbeehive (Jul 15, 2019)

NNewman said:


> Hello. In my opinion Felix Audio Euforia in stock (only tube to change) will win among all listed above. I have it for a year already.
> If you will make all the upgrades available, then LD mk6/8 for sure. But "full pack" will cost you over 1000 usd in total...



Ha! Another OTL amp, this time from Poland!

I see they are following our advice at last and fitting their amps with quality components inside which as we have found make a massive difference. This looks to be a top amp and would not need to be opened up to tweak like we have done with the LD. However as has been said the LD offers more upgrade potential.

Going by some reviews it seems to be a slightly more neutral amp than the LD but of course tubes will make a difference here. Also soundstage looks to be more limited, but I can't really make a proper comparison without hearing it myself.

The big advantage for me though is that the LD is probably the cheapest balanced amp out there. The Woo, is SE I believe though this is not necessarily a disadvantage.

The upgraded LD is end game for me in terms of soundstage, resolution, and dynamics, and you could spend as little or as much as you like to achieve this.

…..the stock LD isn't bad either….!

Edit: I think SwordYang knew the importance of quality components also, due to the factory cap and wire upgrades they used to offer.


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## Saturnian

Hi all, could anyone make any suggestions for good tube upgrades for the mk8 please.


----------



## Saturnian

Is this thread dead Fred


----------



## ViperGeek

No, it's not dead.  The activity comes and goes.

I personally only have the Mk VI+ and so don't have any personal recommendations for tube rolling on the Mk VIII.  Earlier, I posted a list of favorites, based on personal research, for tube rolling on the Mk VI+:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...se-owners-unite.522099/page-150#post_12203881

and I'm currently enjoying:


Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z black bottle driver tubes
RCA 6AS7G vintage NOS matched power tubes

I just don't know if these recommendations would also apply to the Mk VIII.

_– Dave_


----------



## Saturnian

Thanks Dave, I'm pretty sure that they don't use the same tubes at least not the power tubes but thanks anyway, I'm glad the thread is still active.


----------



## Saturnian

Hi all, I've just received my little dot mk8 today and the meters are showing different readings left channel is showing about 55 and right channel is showing about 
45, could someone please tell me if this is down to the tubes or if not what it could be.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Saturnian

My little dot mk8se has now been with me for about 11 days and at first and as the above post states the meters were way off, it turns out that one of the 12at7 tubes was 
malfunctioning but that is nothing compared to the sound through the single ended output, this output has cross polarity and has a terribly one sided echo sound, when
I turn the balance to one side on the pc the sound still comes out of both sides, I have spent the last 7 days trying to get in touch with Shenzhen audio where I purchased the amp
and they truly make you jump through hoops to get any joy from them, the customer service is actually diabolical, they have now put me in touch with Yang who apparently makes these things, obviously with no quality control or testing before they leave the factory, this post is for anyone considering buying one of these and if I were you I would seriously consider your options before buying as to tell you the truth the sound isn't even that good through the balanced output.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> My little dot mk8se has now been with me for about 11 days and at first and as the above post states the meters were way off, it turns out that one of the 12at7 tubes was
> malfunctioning but that is nothing compared to the sound through the single ended output, this output has cross polarity and has a terribly one sided echo sound, when
> I turn the balance to one side on the pc the sound still comes out of both sides, I have spent the last 7 days trying to get in touch with Shenzhen audio where I purchased the amp
> and they truly make you jump through hoops to get any joy from them, the customer service is actually diabolical, they have now put me in touch with Yang who apparently makes these things, obviously with no quality control or testing before they leave the factory, this post is for anyone considering buying one of these and if I were you I would seriously consider your options before buying as to tell you the truth the sound isn't even that good through the balanced output.


I just noticed your post, there aren't many of us on this thread anymore. Sorry that you've been having problems with your Little Dot. I don't know what has happened to the company, their website is no longer there and so they cannot be contacted.

There was a time when their customer service was excellent, that was partly the reason I got the amp. The problems you have been having suggest that it would be better returned under warranty as defective. Some of us on the supermod thread have had these problems, but only after tinkering with it so we are to blame for that, but unfortunately I can't help you to put this right because it requires a degree of knowledge to do that.

Let us know how you get on with Mr Yang, it really might be worth sticking with it if you can get it put right as the amp really is a top performer. I still have mine after over 10 years and wouldn't want to part with it!


----------



## imas69 (Mar 9, 2020)

Ian, if you could send it to me, I could fix it for you, pm me


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## Saturnian

Thanks, really good of you to reply, I've yet to see what solution Yang will come up with but the treatment from Shenzhen audio has been nothing short of disgusting, I truly would
not buy from them again. Is it possible that you could recommend some decent tubes please as I'm using the hd800 but I'd like to warm them up just a little, I have looked at the mod
thread but I'm not sure that want to get involved although I did mod my darkvoice before I sold it, I want to keep the amp but I'm feeling a little bit let down by both companies at the
moment but once again thanks for your time.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> Thanks, really good of you to reply, I've yet to see what solution Yang will come up with but the treatment from Shenzhen audio has been nothing short of disgusting, I truly would
> not buy from them again. Is it possible that you could recommend some decent tubes please as I'm using the hd800 but I'd like to warm them up just a little, I have looked at the mod
> thread but I'm not sure that want to get involved although I did mod my darkvoice before I sold it, I want to keep the amp but I'm feeling a little bit let down by both companies at the
> moment but once again thanks for your time.



No worries!

I think Shenzhen Audio must be a distributor so Little Dot can't really be blamed for their shoddy treatment.

Re: tubes, I have the MKVI+ which uses different tubes to the MK8. So I suggest you PM Maxx134, I'm sure he will help. I know he said there wasn't much choice of power tubes on the MK8 but for driver tubes he uses a lot of weird and wonderful choices with adapters so I'm not sure what to advise you about this myself!


----------



## baronbeehive

BTW did you try swapping the tubes from one side/channel to the other to see if it affects the corresponding meter? If so it is the tube, otherwise it is the circuit on that side which needs checking and rectifying due to a problem connection.


----------



## imas69 (Mar 10, 2020)

I had a similar problem with an old tube amp and it turned out to be a failed resistor


----------



## Saturnian

baronbeehive said:


> BTW did you try swapping the tubes from one side/channel to the other to see if it affects the corresponding meter? If so it is the tube, otherwise it is the circuit on that side which needs checking and rectifying due to a problem connection.


No, your right that's for sure and I am actually more hacked off with Shenzhen audio than I am with little dot but nevertheless I wouldn't have to bother with Shenzhen
if little dot didn't send out a faulty amp, I will try to get a partial refund and have it fixed and checked by someone I know but it's all time related when all I should be doing
is enjoying the music and tube rolling. I have tried shifting the tubes about but with the stock tubes the meters are still out but when I change to the Mullards that I bought
(before I received the amp I should add) then all is fine so it points to a dodgy tube.
Thanks I will message Maxx134.
Thanks for your help


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> No, your right that's for sure and I am actually more hacked off with Shenzhen audio than I am with little dot but nevertheless I wouldn't have to bother with Shenzhen
> if little dot didn't send out a faulty amp, I will try to get a partial refund and have it fixed and checked by someone I know but it's all time related when all I should be doing
> is enjoying the music and tube rolling. I have tried shifting the tubes about but with the stock tubes the meters are still out but when I change to the Mullards that I bought
> (before I received the amp I should add) then all is fine so it points to a dodgy tube.
> ...



Yes, sounds like poor quality control.

Just so I understand when you swap tubes from left to right the problem transfers to the other meter, and when you put in the Mullards both meters read the same?

If so the amp is OK!


----------



## Saturnian (Mar 10, 2020)

baronbeehive said:


> Yes, sounds like poor quality control.
> 
> Just so I understand when you swap tubes from left to right the problem transfers to the other meter, and when you put in the Mullards both meters read the same?
> 
> If so the amp is OK!


No, even when I swap the stock tubes the left meter is slightly lower than the right and remains so no matter what side the tubes are in but with the Mullard tubes the meters have the same reading.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> No, even when I swap the stock tubes the left meter is slightly lower than the right and remains so no matter what side the tubes are in but with the Mullard tubes the meters have the same reading.



Well if they read the same with Mullards, use them LOL!

If you get any other tubes try the same check with them, it looks like the amp is alright, so long as the readings are more or less the same, but not 45mA and 55mA that is too far out to be right. But bad tubes could do that though.

I guess the Mullards are driver tubes in which case they should be good as most Mullards are, but I'm not familiar with the MK8 tubes so ask Maxx.


----------



## Saturnian

baronbeehive said:


> Well if they read the same with Mullards, use them LOL!
> 
> If you get any other tubes try the same check with them, it looks like the amp is alright, so long as the readings are more or less the same, but not 45mA and 55mA that is too far out to be right. But bad tubes could do that though.
> 
> I guess the Mullards are driver tubes in which case they should be good as most Mullards are, but I'm not familiar with the MK8 tubes so ask Maxx.


I am but the difficulty is the stock tubes sound better but I'm a bit ocd and can't handle the thought of the meter readings being different, thanks for your help and I will message Maxx. Once I get the single ended problem sorted I'm sure I'll love it


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> I am but the difficulty is the stock tubes sound better but I'm a bit ocd and can't handle the thought of the meter readings being different, thanks for your help and I will message Maxx. Once I get the single ended problem sorted I'm sure I'll love it



Yes I know what you mean! However if the readings are the same with Mullards then it points to a tube problem not an amp problem.

What was the problem with SE? There is a hum when using it, that's why it's best to use the balanced outs.


----------



## baronbeehive

... try swapping the Mullards from one side to the other, then if the readings are still the same you can be pretty sure the problem was the other tubes not the amp!


----------



## Saturnian

I am pretty sure it is a tube problem but the se problem is a lot worse than just hum, it truly is cross polarity as when I try to turn the balance to either side it still
comes from both side and results in one side being louder than the other but also has a terrible sound like the music is being played at the top of a mountain and reverbs around.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> I am pretty sure it is a tube problem but the se problem is a lot worse than just hum, it truly is cross polarity as when I try to turn the balance to either side it still
> comes from both side and results in one side being louder than the other but also has a terrible sound like the music is being played at the top of a mountain and reverbs around.



What is it like using balanced outputs and the Mullards? Bear in mind it will improve all the way to 50+ hours burn in, and beyond.


----------



## Saturnian

It is very good, the detail and clarity are excellent but I always thought that the Mullards were considered a warm tube but this 
is not the case and the electro harmonix are much warmer and more musical but as you say I think I'll have to burn the Mullards
in and hope for them to warm slightly.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> It is very good, the detail and clarity are excellent but I always thought that the Mullards were considered a warm tube but this
> is not the case and the electro harmonix are much warmer and more musical but as you say I think I'll have to burn the Mullards
> in and hope for them to warm slightly.



Ah, excellent!

Yes, you are correct, they are generally a warm tube, but they also have excellent detail and soundstage, and are usually quite punchy too. Unless they are new issue tubes in which case they will not sound characteristically Mullard. I'm assuming you are talking about the driver tubes.

You should always use the balanced connections, like all of us here do. The SE connections are c**p frankly, they are just there for backward compatability, but you would not want to use a balanced amp with SE connections. All the same I haven't heard of it sounding that bad as you described it.

If you do end up liking the amp, and it has such a sweet tone and holographic soundstage, you could consider changing out the caps at some point for some quality ones which would really push everything to top level, as it is the amp is very nice but could be pushed a lot further.


----------



## Saturnian

I will definitely keep it because I bought it for the balanced input/ outputs anyway but it annoys me when things don't function properly, I've opened it up and the se output
comes after the balanced basically at the end of the chain so it's definitely not affecting the balanced output at all, yes it is the driver tubes and they are the cryo ones with
balanced triodes from Watford valves, I would really like to change some of the caps but I'm not sure which ones are the most important even after reading some of the 
mod thread, which ones should I start with and do you have a particular make that I should use.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> they are the cryo ones with balanced triodes from Watford valves



Very interesting, I've looked at these cryo valves but not actually tried them. What do you think about them, have you compared them to non cryo? It could be that the cryo  versions have a cleaner sound and that might explain why you found them rather brighter than expected.


----------



## baronbeehive

Saturnian said:


> I would really like to change some of the caps but I'm not sure which ones are the most important even after reading some of the
> mod thread, which ones should I start with and do you have a particular make that I should use.



There are a lot of mods that could be done and they all work together, from wiring to resistors to caps but to just concentrate on the caps we are over the top types on the supermod thread which explains why we went for the excellent.. but expensive.. Jupiter caps! That's alright if money is no object.

I would say the 3 most important groups of caps would be coupling first, then WCF due to the white cathode follower design these are almost as important as the coupling caps, then also important are the cathode caps. I would recommend for coupling Audyn True Copper being cheaper. For WCF you need a brigher faster cap to stand out at that point in the circuit so Mundorf Supreme SIO or Audyn True Silver. Then for cathode bypass caps Nichicon Muse KZ's are excellent and not expensive. They help out with power recovery from transients.

Here is a capacitor review to give you some idea: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

If you do decide to go ahead, it might be a good idea to come over to the supermod thread for help and problem solving.


----------



## Saturnian

Thanks for this, I will definitely head over there at some point but I need to just try to enjoy the amp at the moment, I managed to wangle a new set of tubes
from Yang as I told him that I'll stop hassling them if he sends me some which I consider fair as one or more of the tubes were faulty and considering I fixed
the cross polarity myself it makes for a quieter more relaxed life for all involved, the ground wire coming from the balanced output was soldered to the tip of
the single ended output but I desoldered and soldered correctly, incredibly shoddy work but an easy fix in the end.


----------



## Yaska729

Finally get all the tubes so I can turn on my MK viii today. So I’ve been looking for a balance tube amp for my T1 2nd, and I am really glad that I found an amazing deal on a used mk viii withou tubes. I choose the Brimar 12AT7 with triple mica, square getter, and black plate that were made in the 50s. For rectifier I bought Electro Harmonix 6H30pi gold pin, and I am wondering if there is a better replacement?

I’ve been checking out the supermod page and I think I’m going to try to do a bit of mods such as the caps, resistors, and the wiring. Below is my current setup and thanks to those who have posted a lot of useful info under this thread, it really helps me a lot while I was looking for an amp!

Picture of my current setup


----------



## baronbeehive (Mar 26, 2020)

Yaska729 said:


> Finally get all the tubes so I can turn on my MK viii today. So I’ve been looking for a balance tube amp for my T1 2nd, and I am really glad that I found an amazing deal on a used mk viii withou tubes. I choose the Brimar 12AT7 with triple mica, square getter, and black plate that were made in the 50s. For rectifier I bought Electro Harmonix 6H30pi gold pin, and I am wondering if there is a better replacement?
> 
> I’ve been checking out the supermod page and I think I’m going to try to do a bit of mods such as the caps, resistors, and the wiring. Below is my current setup and thanks to those who have posted a lot of useful info under this thread, it really helps me a lot while I was looking for an amp!



Excellent!

I haven't heard the Brimar 12AT7's but I was looking at getting the similar 12Ax7's a while back for my APPJ amp as they looked to be a top tube. In the end I didn't go for them as I found what I liked in the TS5751.

What cans are you using?


----------



## Yaska729

baronbeehive said:


> Excellent!
> 
> I haven't heard the Brimar 12AT7's but I was looking at getting the similar 12Ax7's a while back for my APPJ amp as they looked to be a top tube. In the end I didn't go for them as I found what I liked in the TS5751.
> 
> What cans are you using?



I think some of the Brimar is as good as Mullard, maybe a bit more neutral on the tonality, but still warmish excellent British tubes!

Beyerdynamic T1 2nd


----------



## CopperFox (Apr 4, 2020)

I picked up a second hand Little Dot mk VI+ from Ebay last month.

It had nasty transformer hum/buzz, which surprisingly was eliminated pretty much entirely by removing the transformer covers. Some people had similar problems earlier in the thread, but had had problems removing the covers due to the screws being installed so close to the raised part of the capacitor cover. I managed to unscrew them by first using a small flat head screwdriver at an angle to the Philips-head screws and then using pliers to do the last few spins.

So the hum/buzz issues that some have had seems to be due to the toroidial transformers' magnetic effects moving the covers.

Now I've been considering what to do next: try to install some damping material for the covers and put them back, find some different covers of another non-magnetic material, or just leave them unattached. Any tips will be welcome.

The screwdriver I used had head size of about 3mm x 0,5-0,7mm. The only text on it says "Made in West Germany" so it's probably not a current model.

Are there any recommendations for quiet replacement fans? I think I'll need to have them on in the summer.


----------



## CopperFox

My LDmkVI+ is looking excited about its new drawer-top placement.



Replaced the stock fans with Noctua NF-A8s and a 3-pin Y splitter cable so it' quite quiet now.
Still considering whether or not to reinstall the transformer covers.


----------



## ViperGeek

CopperFox said:


> Are there any recommendations for quiet replacement fans? I think I'll need to have them on in the summer.


Congrats on the new tube amp.

I replaced the stock fans with two Noctua NF-R8 80mm Fans.  The original URL from Amazon now points to dog collars, but I found these:

https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-Bearing-Cooling-NF-R8-redux-1200/dp/B00KF7T9MI/

plus the splitter wire required:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LPE1DDS/

Double-check whether the Mk VI+ takes 3-pin or 4-pin fans before ordering.  From what I recall, the replacement was very easy.

- Dave


----------



## Taz777

Is anyone using the Little Dot Mk VIII SE with a pair of beyerdynamic T1.2 headphones? I'm looking for a tube amp for these that can drive them easily. Also, any concerns about reliability? Finally, as I'm in the UK, is there a recommended place to purchase this amp? Any advice greatly appreciated as I'm eyeing up the Pathos Aurium at the moment but the price of that has gone up a lot recently.


----------



## Yaska729

Taz777 said:


> Is anyone using the Little Dot Mk VIII SE with a pair of beyerdynamic T1.2 headphones? I'm looking for a tube amp for these that can drive them easily. Also, any concerns about reliability? Finally, as I'm in the UK, is there a recommended place to purchase this amp? Any advice greatly appreciated as I'm eyeing up the Pathos Aurium at the moment but the price of that has gone up a lot recently.


My current setup is pretty much what you're talking about, and MK VIII SE drives the T1 perfectly. I actually bought an used machine, and serial number is 008, all I had to do was purchase the tubes (the previous owner took all of them and sold with no tubes on it). The machine was produced in 2011, so I don't think reliability would be a concern. Mr. Yang (owner of Little Dot) post in his QQ group chat that they have a new international distributor that actually speak English, so I guess you could go check out their site https://littledotus.com , hopefully this helps.


----------



## vaduz488

I am considering the Little Dot MK VIII.  Here is my question.   Will this amp power planar headphones?   I have heard tubes usually don't go well with planars.   Why is this?


----------



## Saturnian

it will drive them easily and tube amps are generally considered to have a warm sound and so do planars so this is probably why people think they are not
compatible


----------



## nsgarch

Drives all my power-hungry old Yamaha ortho dynamics just fine…


----------



## CopperFox (Sep 5, 2020)

Mk VI has more power/current than mk viii so it would be better for the most hungry planars.

Edit: I hear the reason why tubes and planars are not the easiest mix is that tubes have relatively low current drive (current roughly means continuous power flow) compared to solid states and planars need current. Tubes have far higher voltage output than solid states (meaning maximum shorter term power flow potential afaik) though.


----------



## greenkiwi

On a random note - I've heard that people have liked using the small Emotiva A-100 speaker amp  with the HE-6's


----------



## AngryTank

So I just bit the bullet on a mk8 from Apos, hopefully I enjoy it on my current headphones while I wait for my Auteurs to come in.


----------



## Nooborghini

I just received my LD MK8 SE from Apos and the right screen light is dimmer than the left and it's not matching with the current going through it.
I messaged Apos for a follow up but I'm not sure what to do. Any ideas? Just replace tubes?


----------



## chezzer

I had the same problem and it was the tubes, change the front tubes over left to right and see if the problem moves with the tube, I swapped tubes and now its okay but
I also had a problem where my single ended output was wired wrong so I had to do it properly myself, QC is terrible


----------



## AngryTank

Yea I had the same issue, I got mine through Apos (not their fault) but yea it’s 100% the tubes, mine would read over 120 on the right and the very right tube is glowing the surface of the sun.


----------



## Nooborghini

I see, Atleast the current imbalance is fixable. 
The dial’s LED is dimmer than the left, can’t fix that unless I solder it off and add my own backlight on it right?


----------



## baronbeehive

Nooborghini said:


> I see, Atleast the current imbalance is fixable.
> The dial’s LED is dimmer than the left, can’t fix that unless I solder it off and add my own backlight on it right?



Is your unit new?

The dials have their own LED built in. One of the wires leading to it has a resistor inside the wire which sets the light voltage so the only way you could fix it would be to check each wire to each dial to see if one of the resistors is faulty and replace it which would be tricky. I think this is the likely cause of the backlight problem.

Did you swap over the tubes?

Sorry to hear of the issues you guys are experiencing. My MKVI is 12 years old now and has no issues. Over on the Supermods thread we have carried out a lot of upgrades to the internal components, including uprating the resistors to a higher wattage and the unit is still going strong and running without a hitch. This is despite several problems along the way.

It does appear that QC is not up to scratch which is a pity. My early unit appears to be much better quality and even had the best Dale resistors installed!

LD no longer has their own website, so I suspect that the operation is not running so smoothly nowadays.

I feel the amp is worth staying with because after all the upgrades it is truly at end game level. Even the stock amp is very good, but the upgrades were the icing on the cake.


----------



## Yaska729

baronbeehive said:


> Is your unit new?
> 
> The dials have their own LED built in. One of the wires leading to it has a resistor inside the wire which sets the light voltage so the only way you could fix it would be to check each wire to each dial to see if one of the resistors is faulty and replace it which would be tricky. I think this is the likely cause of the backlight problem.
> 
> ...


I also never ran into the the problems like you guys did on the MK 8. Gotta let Mr. Yang know that the QC is dropping the ball haha.

Quick correction though, not only the old website is running. They also have the Facebook fan page and another official website that list their products on there.


----------



## baronbeehive

Yaska729 said:


> I also never ran into the the problems like you guys did on the MK 8. Gotta let Mr. Yang know that the QC is dropping the ball haha.



Yes absolutely, it's not cricket.. as we say in UK lol!




Yaska729 said:


> Quick correction though, not only the old website is running. They also have the Facebook fan page and another official website that list their products on there.



Wow you're right, good to see the website back again.


----------



## Nooborghini

baronbeehive said:


> Is your unit new?
> 
> The dials have their own LED built in. One of the wires leading to it has a resistor inside the wire which sets the light voltage so the only way you could fix it would be to check each wire to each dial to see if one of the resistors is faulty and replace it which would be tricky. I think this is the likely cause of the backlight problem.
> 
> ...



Yeah it is brand new, I am talking to APOS about it currently.
The LED back light is definitely defective. I am not keen on opening this up currently to tinker it around as I realllllllllllllllllly do not want to do this, esp when I had this amp for almost a week now.

I really do enjoy looking at the tube, reason why I got this one is cause it just looks great in the dark. The backlight really does bug me since I am looking at it ALL the time.

Replacing the pre-amp tubes with my other random pair I had lying around definitely fixed the current imbalance. I guess the tube was bad. No microphonics on it however, interestingly enough.

It is a pity that APOS needs to pay for LD's QC. I hear so many good things about LD but recent products are just letting me down. I ordered the MKII+ from Drop w/ 4010 upgraded tubes and they came microphonic. REALLY disappointed and Drop customer service told me essentially sucks to suck since shipped to Canada.

I am pretty keen on keeping this thing, I really don't want to upgrade to the WA22 when it is roughly $2500 USD which ends up probably $3000 CAD for an amp for my HD800 or HD820 seems kind of absurd when my LD MKVIII can potentially do better or just as well.

_c'est la vie~_


----------



## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Yeah it is brand new, I am talking to APOS about it currently.
> The LED back light is definitely defective. I am not keen on opening this up currently to tinker it around as I realllllllllllllllllly do not want to do this, esp when I had this amp for almost a week now.
> 
> I really do enjoy looking at the tube, reason why I got this one is cause it just looks great in the dark. The backlight really does bug me since I am looking at it ALL the time.
> ...


What power tubes would you recommend for replacement? I am literally in the same position, I just recieved my replacement yesterday and already having the channel imbalance happening again.


----------



## baronbeehive

Nooborghini said:


> It is a pity that APOS needs to pay for LD's QC. I hear so many good things about LD but recent products are just letting me down. I ordered the MKII+ from Drop w/ 4010 upgraded tubes and they came microphonic. REALLY disappointed and Drop customer service told me essentially sucks to suck since shipped to Canada.
> 
> I am pretty keen on keeping this thing, I really don't want to upgrade to the WA22 when it is roughly $2500 USD which ends up probably $3000 CAD for an amp for my HD800 or HD820 seems kind of absurd when my LD MKVIII can potentially do better or just as well.
> 
> _c'est la vie~_



Yeah! This is shocking, I can only repeat to stick with it, sort the issues with APOS and you shouldn't have any further problems. This was unheard of a while ago on this thread. I don't know if David from the LD website is answering emails nowadays but you could try that too, he is usually helpful, but as you say your problems are with APOS.

I get that you don't appreciate looking at that LED neither would I!

If all else fails maybe an electronics engineer could fix the wire to the dial.

The amp is better than the WA22 anyway IMO.


----------



## baronbeehive

AngryTank said:


> What power tubes would you recommend for replacement? I am literally in the same position, I just recieved my replacement yesterday and already having the channel imbalance happening again.


I hope that is just a tube problem. Before he answers, I don't know what you're using, but I will just add that I'm still using RCA 6AS7G's and they sound great... and are cheap so you could try this and move on up later when you're sure about the amp.


----------



## Maxx134 (Nov 6, 2020)

I would look to return the unit because if you bought new, it should be 100% perfect, and not need any fixing yourself, unless it's tubes, but if you already opened the unit, it would be to late, unless you put back as stock.
Look into whichever is cheaper.
Maybe cheaper to have local repairman fix, than to ship unit.
I myself never experienced a dim light on right side. It would turn on after, but get same brightness.
That involves the power supply.


----------



## Maxx134

Meter light is not the light fault.
It would indicate a PSU or bias circuit problem.

Also,
Make sure you have good working tubes.
Many many old tubes wether NOS or Newer remake, they can ALL HAVE BAD tubes.
Make sure your tubes are good by switching sides to compare...

It's easy to think it's the amp, when it's the tubes(!).


----------



## AngryTank

Maxx134 said:


> I would look to return the unit because if you bought new, it should be 100% perfect, and not need any fixing yourself, unless it's tubes, but if you already opened the unit, it would be to late, unless you put back as stock.
> Look into whichever is cheaper.
> Maybe cheaper to have local repairman fix, than to ship unit.
> I myself never experienced a dim light on right side. It would turn on after, but get same brightness.
> That involves the power supply.


If he purchased via Apos, he can get a replacement free of charge, They did it with mine, and everything works but I. Think one of my preamp tubes is not right.


----------



## Nooborghini

AngryTank said:


> If he purchased via Apos, he can get a replacement free of charge, They did it with mine, and everything works but I. Think one of my preamp tubes is not right.



The issue is that we have to ship from US to CAD. Well from China to CAD. So there is roughly $100 of USD customs fee and that wouldn't be cost effective for both parties. 

We came to a conclusion of offering partial refund for the issue, really sad APOS has to pay for LD's mistakes. Just truly sad. Apos though, great company to work with.
They've been so accommodating and consistent with their communication. 

I almost bought it from Shenzhen but they way they responded was disgusting. They promise a price match but then say, "No sorry, that is too much of discount, I will give you 5%."


----------



## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> The issue is that we have to ship from US to CAD. Well from China to CAD. So there is roughly $100 of USD customs fee and that wouldn't be cost effective for both parties.
> 
> We came to a conclusion of offering partial refund for the issue, really sad APOS has to pay for LD's mistakes. Just truly sad. Apos though, great company to work with.
> They've been so accommodating and consistent with their communication.
> ...


Yea I know what you mean, they currently have my DX7 Pro which broke after accidentally turning the volume to Max. I sent that in at the start of September and it’s already been 2 months. They just received the unit last week, and should be ready to ship back this week. I really do Love Apos for their customer Service, and yea it sucks they have to take the hit for LD mistake.


----------



## baronbeehive

Following several bad experiences by members on this forum I have emailed Little Dot about this. I will let you know if anything positive results from that.


----------



## Nooborghini (Nov 13, 2020)

AngryTank said:


> What power tubes would you recommend for replacement? I am literally in the same position, I just recieved my replacement yesterday and already having the channel imbalance happening again.



Sorry I didn't see this one.
My friend from work recommended https://www.thetubestore.com/genalex-gold-lion-ecc81-b739?quantity=1&additional_options=3 vs the
MULLARD 12AT7WA / CV4024

Waiting currently if I should replace them or not

I don't know if I should bother with https://upscaleaudio.com/products/russian-6h30pi-gold-pin?variant=21830513221

ARC vs PLATINUM vs GOLD, no idea what that's about.


----------



## Maxx134 (Nov 14, 2020)

For the driver stage, I would only look into NOS tubes.
The new ones no matter which, look good but they like to have higher or optimal bias to work clearly...

The NOS tubes are clear at any bias, and this amp has a NOTORIOUSLY LOW BIAS POINT, to the point of being NOT IN THE LINEAR RANGE.
Very low biased!
Also because of this, you can try MANY 12pin dual triode tubes..not just 12at7.
Same applies for the MK6 amp. You can try many similar 6pin dual triode types.





Nooborghini said:


> I don't know if I should bother with https://upscaleaudio.com/products/russian-6h30pi-gold-pin?variant=21830513221
> 
> ARC vs PLATINUM vs GOLD, no idea what that's about


The gold pin have a thicker sound and need slight more break in.
The Russian "Sovtek" version has a more linear signature, closer to the fabled expensive ones (6n30p-dr at $250 each!)..

The best is to mix both the "Sovtek", and the "gold lion"  on each channel side.

Put the Sovtek on the left socket, and the gold lion on the right socket, of the left channel..
 Then do the same for the right channel, so  both channels have one of each tube.


The reason is that left tube acts as the sonically prominent tube, Is that it is pushing the positive(+half)  of the signal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless, that is the socket(left) which sets the sound for that channel.

You must use the clearest, fastest, least thick tube for that socket, or else a thicker tube would color the sound more..
 With this set-up, you combine the best traits of both tubes.
You get the speed, clarity,  and the bass thickness all combined.

Remember to ONLY mix tube brands, NOT tube model numbers!
All four power tubes must of same model number!

I am assuming the same phenomena occurs with the MK6 amp as well, yet while you can mix tube brands, you cannot mix tube model numbers, and the MK6 has alot more choices in output tubes so just remember they must all be of same model number type.


Also don't bother paying high prices with special tube websites, when you can find so many deals from private owners on eBay or forums.
Most tubes that are still available these days have little to no usage because of the smaller market.
Don't believe the fairly tale that you need to buy from any place special.
Some of the rarest and best deals can be had on eBay.


----------



## Maxx134

For the MK8, I did and still have some elusive 6n30p-dr output tubes, and while it's true it has the clarity and resolve, I do feel it's not necessary, if you mod the amp and use the Sovtek alone.


----------



## baronbeehive

Maxx134 said:


> For the MK8, I did and still have some elusive 6n30p-dr output tubes, and while it's true it has the clarity and resolve, I do feel it's not necessary, if you mod the amp and use the Sovtek alone.



I agree. Same reason I don't feel the need for anything exotic for power tubes on the MKVi, other than the "bog standard" RCA's, the amp is *soooo* good modded!
.


----------



## baronbeehive

Maxx134 said:


> For the driver stage, I would only look into NOS tubes.
> The new ones no matter which, look good but they like to have higher or optimal bias to work clearly...



...and even then they are not as good generally...




Maxx134 said:


> The NOS tubes are clear at any bias, and this amp has a NOTORIOUSLY LOW BIAS POINT, to the point of being NOT IN THE LINEAR RANGE.
> Very low biased!



I feel this is partly why the sound signature of the LD is so sweet. I've said before it would be interesting to test those lower grid regions for the bias point to see what the differences are. Some distortion freaks might really love it!







Maxx134 said:


> The reason is that left tube acts as the sonically prominent tube, Is that it is pushing the positive(+half)  of the signal.
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless, that is the socket(left) which sets the sound for that channel.
> 
> You must use the clearest, fastest, least thick tube for that socket, or else a thicker tube would color the sound more..
> ...



Strange how this was discovered, I think by SoundEngineer ages ago, probably by mistake! I did try this with RCA's and another type but I think the two types were too similar to notice any difference.

Soeone also tried mixing 6AS7G's and 421A's I seem to remember.


----------



## baronbeehive (Nov 15, 2020)

Re: the QC problems, I have emailed LD at the China website and had no response. I've also emailed the American website, I will let you know if they are any help.

@Yaska729  would you or anyone be able to post about this on Facebook, I can't as I'm not on it but that would reach quite a few people and might get a response.


----------



## Maxx134 (Nov 19, 2020)

baronbeehive said:


> Soeone also tried mixing 6AS7G's and 421A's I seem to remember


I don't recommend mixing tube types, only different brands within same model numbers...
That incident I believe was a mistake.


----------



## baronbeehive

Re: the QC issue that has been concerning members here recently. I've been in touch with the official contact for Little Dot on the https://littledotus.com/ website, the official distributor for the N. America region. He has been most friendly and helpful. He is aware of the QC issue affecting some distributors and is taking steps to make sure it doesn't happen there.

He said "we are taking this pretty seriously, and started last week, we actually increase the testing time from 24 hours to 120 hours, for every single unit that goes out of our factory."

He also said that to ask the customer to share the cost, of putting things right should never happen within the initial three months period.

This appears to resolve the issues some have been having!

So people should think carefully when purchasing Little Dot products. If they deal through the official Little Dot sites at the above, or littledot.net in China they should also be able to contact Little Dot for help to resolve any issues.

I did contact the China website with no response, but as the site has only recently been up and running again perhaps they haven't got things together properly yet!


----------



## SONYES (Nov 24, 2020)

CopperFox said:


> I picked up a second hand Little Dot mk VI+ from Ebay last month.
> 
> It had nasty transformer hum/buzz, which surprisingly was eliminated pretty much entirely by removing the transformer covers. Some people had similar problems earlier in the thread, but had had problems removing the covers due to the screws being installed so close to the raised part of the capacitor cover. I managed to unscrew them by first using a small flat head screwdriver at an angle to the Philips-head screws and then using pliers to do the last few spins.
> 
> ...


WOW THANK YOU I DID IT AS YOU SAY  WOW ........  There was a buzzing buzzing so loud you could not listen to the music
Thank you very much ... I really disassembled it was especially hard with the internal screws
Almost complete silence NOW
I put these also reduces noise
Now it remains to take care of the fans


----------



## blackdragon87

is this good with eikon and atticus? anyone trief? thx in advance


----------



## AngryTank

blackdragon87 said:


> is this good with eikon and atticus? anyone trief? thx in advance


I use it with my Auteur and it sound amazing, However I’m trying to sell mine simply because I don’t get much listening time while at home.


----------



## blackdragon87

AngryTank said:


> I use it with my Auteur and it sound amazing, However I’m trying to sell mine simply because I don’t get much listening time while at home.





AngryTank said:


> I use it with my Auteur and it sound amazing, However I’m trying to sell mine simply because I don’t get much listening time while at home.



good to know, thx. found a deal on one locally im interested in


----------



## buencamino

Hello, fairly new to the tube amp world as I've just been exposed to solid states. I was thinking of acquiring one.. what is the difference between the MK8 and the MK6+? Primarily my question is is it good for the HD800S? The MK6+ is cheaper.. Wondering if I should get this instead of a Topping A90.. Any help would be appreciated, thanks..


----------



## baronbeehive

buencamino said:


> Hello, fairly new to the tube amp world as I've just been exposed to solid states. I was thinking of acquiring one.. what is the difference between the MK8 and the MK6+? Primarily my question is is it good for the HD800S? The MK6+ is cheaper.. Wondering if I should get this instead of a Topping A90.. Any help would be appreciated, thanks..



Hi buencamino! I have the MKVi+ it has enough brute power for low impedance headphones such as my planars, the HE-500. If you are mainly using the amp for high impedance headphones such as the HD800S, which incidently I wouldn't mind trying myself, I would go for the MK8 because that is what it is specifically designed for.

I think you will find that a good tube amp such as the LD will really bring out the best in the HD800S, Sennheisers need to be well amped and tubes bring an extra quality to their SQ.

I don't know if you read the previous posts but be careful who you buy from!


----------



## Ethereal Sound

Is there anyone using this purely as a preamp and can comment on its performance as such?


----------



## AngryTank

baronbeehive said:


> Hi buencamino! I have the MKVi+ it has enough brute power for low impedance headphones such as my planars, the HE-500. If you are mainly using the amp for high impedance headphones such as the HD800S, which incidently I wouldn't mind trying myself, I would go for the MK8 because that is what it is specifically designed for.
> 
> I think you will find that a good tube amp such as the LD will really bring out the best in the HD800S, Sennheisers need to be well amped and tubes bring an extra quality to their SQ.
> 
> I don't know if you read the previous posts but be careful who you buy from!


I highly recommend staying away from Shenzhen Audio, shipping and warranty claims can take up to 3 months. Apos is seems to be fine with 2-7 day shipping warranty exchange, and with the extra year of coverage it’s kind of obvious if you are going to buy it and not swap the tubes out, go for Apos.


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,
I am planning to buy the Little Dot Mk VI + with full upgrade,with Mundorf stuff silver solder plus the Mullard tubes Ect..
On the site to buy https://littledotus.com/?product=mk-vi

Has anyone done the upgrade and can report back?
Furthermore, I keep reading that some people have problems with the power supply, but the articles are a bit older.
I wrote to the manufacturer and he said it depends on the mains.
I assume that I don't expect any problems in Germany.

Nevertheless, I am a bit worried about the power supply story.
Because I'm not interested in investing additional money later for a "better" power supply, if then rather a few tubes.
I also know that the small one has been on the market for a long time and maybe after years one or the other problem has been fixed, like the fans and so on.
Or is the power supply issue still there?

I am also aware that tube amplifiers generally hum a bit.
But I don't want to have to turn up the volume so high to drown it out, if it's that bad.
I have two other tube amplifiers in mind, but they are 2-3 times as expensive.

It would be great if someone could give me an update.
As many posts are old and not up to date.


----------



## baronbeehive (Jan 23, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> I am planning to buy the Little Dot Mk VI + with full upgrade,with Mundorf stuff silver solder plus the Mullard tubes Ect..
> On the site to buy https://littledotus.com/?product=mk-vi
> 
> Has anyone done the upgrade and can report back?



Hi Delleh, congratulations on your purchase! The guys on the US website you mention are very friendly and helpful. Yes this thread is beginning to show signs of age, however the amp is still good! I've checked in here from the LD Supermods thread where we've gone much further than just coupling caps. However I'm pleased to see that LD are still offering the Mundforf and wires upgrades. This is a key upgrade which will massively improve SQ.



Deleeh said:


> I also know that the small one has been on the market for a long time and maybe after years one or the other problem has been fixed, like the fans and so on.
> Or is the power supply issue still there?



I'm not sure what power supply issue you are talking about, AFAIK there is no power supply issue at all, just make sure that the voltage matches your supply in Germany. I believe it is 230v, the same as UK but you might need an adapter as I believe the plugs are different.

I think the fans are the usual ones which you can hear but are not obtrusive, if you do find them annoying you can replace them with quiet fans.

I have fitted larger Enermax fans which have LED lighting which is pretty cool!



Deleeh said:


> I am also aware that tube amplifiers generally hum a bit.
> But I don't want to have to turn up the volume so high to drown it out, if it's that bad.
> I have two other tube amplifiers in mind, but they are 2-3 times as expensive.



Apart from the fans the amp is dead quiet, some have reported a slight hum from the transformer or transformer covers but I myself haven't experienced this.

Also when using the amp SE there is a hum, but it is a balanced amp and you should use it balanced, if you do the balance architecture means no noise.

What are the other 2 amps you have?


----------



## Deleeh

Hello at all and @baronbeehive,

I haven't ordered the little one yet because I wanted to wait for an answer.
I was also looking for the best price/performance ratio for a tube amplifier.
The Cayin Cs 1H has slipped into the selection with one leg.😇
But there are still one two things that bother me.
First of all, I would like to get rid of the Rca and use the balanced output that I have free on the Dac.
Or rather, the Rca is actually occupied and I don't want to keep switching back and forth.

And the MK vI+ seems to me to be right, cleanly constructed without major problems.
I have of course seen cheaper ones but something bothers me of Tubeamps.
And some also report that they have problems and the eternal tube rolling.
I've already been through that with the Schiit Vali 2, and I don't feel like it.

Your answer was helpful in any case and actually cleared up the last doubts I had.👍
I'm not too worried about the hum of the transformer.
My wife would still have a 3D printer if it was actually coming from the cover.😊
If necessary, you could possibly decorate the cover with a nice wood.🙈
If it really is coming from a magnetic field in the cover, that would be an option.

The Audiovalve Luminare or Solaris would also be on the shortlist. they cost considerably more than the Little Dot and the variety of connections would be there.

But I think I'll stick with the Little Dot, which would certainly be sufficient for my purposes.

Do you have a link from the mods where the users here have made? I would be interested out of curiosity.🤗

Thanks again for your answer,


----------



## AngryTank

Deleeh said:


> Hello at all and @baronbeehive,
> 
> I haven't ordered the little one yet because I wanted to wait for an answer.
> I was also looking for the best price/performance ratio for a tube amplifier.
> ...


As a current user of the Mk8 SE I actually love it, and yea I wouldn’t recommend using RCA or SE cause there is a Hum that really bothered me for the longest time but once I invested on the Balanced interconnects I no longer had any Humming issues when running fully balanced. I want to try some mods too so i might check out the mod list.


----------



## baronbeehive (Jan 24, 2021)

Deleeh said:


> And some also report that they have problems and the eternal tube rolling.
> I've already been through that with the Schiit Vali 2, and I don't feel like it.
> 
> Thanks again for your answer,



No worries, happy to help!

Yes, just get a set of 4xRCA 6AS7G's, cheap and good enough to last you, and maybe 2xTungsol 6SL7's and you need never tube roll again. That's what I have on my modded LD and it is truly end game, sounds so good with these tubes that there's no need to change.




Deleeh said:


> Your answer was helpful in any case and actually cleared up the last doubts I had.👍
> I'm not too worried about the hum of the transformer.
> My wife would still have a 3D printer if it was actually coming from the cover.😊



Yes, the one person that mentioned this removed the cover and the hum disappeared, but as I said nobody else has mentioned this problem.

All you notice when the amp is running is the fantastic soundstage and resolution when you have your headphones on. With the upgrades you have the superior sound over the stock LD, which is already good, and I think you would be very happy with that . The amp itself runs dead quiet. I've been running this amp, modded,, for about 10 years with no problems and I don't intend to change it!

This is the LD Supermods thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lit...rified-mods-are-on-first-page.782183/page-253


----------



## Deleeh

baronbeehive said:


> No worries, happy to help!
> 
> Yes, just get a set of 4xRCA 6AS7G's, cheap and good enough to last you, and maybe 2xTungsol 6SL7's and you need never tube roll again. That's what I have on my modded LD and it is truly end game, sounds so good with these tubes that there's no need to change.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the recommendations, I will keep them in mind.👍
First the good piece has to find its way to me, then I'll see what happens.

Your tube recommendations are quite good.👍
Would I have to take a made pair for each RCA or just 4 pieces directly?
I don't think you will find a machet set of 4 Tubes.

I have looked in the upgrades there is quite a bit exaggerated.
I don't want to go that far either.
I would be happy if the good piece does its job without incident, has a nice British charm in the sound.😁


----------



## baronbeehive

Deleeh said:


> Would I have to take a made pair for each RCA or just 4 pieces directly?
> I don't think you will find a machet set of 4 Tubes.



Yes, either a matched pair, or better still a quad, sellers like http://www.audiotubes.com/6sl7.htm will do that.





Deleeh said:


> I would be happy if the good piece does its job without incident, has a nice British charm in the sound.😁



LOL!


----------



## Nooborghini

After a few months of usage, I just turned on my tube amp and it popped.
Smoking coming out coming form the circuit board. 

B I G sad.
From the original issues I had with this with the dial lights being terrible and the stock tubes being sent as defective as well... I am really losing faith in Little dot.

Sent a warranty req over to APOS and I'm sure they'll be fine but whoever is looking to buy one of these - I'd be very careful.


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> After a few months of usage, I just turned on my tube amp and it popped.
> Smoking coming out coming form the circuit board.
> 
> B I G sad.
> ...


I agree, luckily I haven’t really had any issues as of late, the only issue I’ve been having is microphonics of the tubes. I really want to see if the upgrades that little dot provides would be worth sending in for upgrading.


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## Nooborghini

AngryTank said:


> I agree, luckily I haven’t really had any issues as of late, the only issue I’ve been having is microphonics of the tubes. I really want to see if the upgrades that little dot provides would be worth sending in for upgrading.



Yeah microphonics is just tube related, swap those out and you should be golden. Hope this fiasco is a one off and doesn't happen to anyone else!


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Yeah microphonics is just tube related, swap those out and you should be golden. Hope this fiasco is a one off and doesn't happen to anyone else!


Have you swapped yours? I’m looking for recommendations as to what I could use


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## Deleeh

It's really unfortunate.
Shouldn't happen normally.
I think there is a fuse in the mains plug, probably it has tripped.
If there is none in there, there will probably be one in the unit that has tripped.

If so, it will certainly be replaced and a look at the circuit board will be taken to see if there is a reason why it has tripped.

I got the Little Dot Mk 1+, which is not bad in terms of workmanship, but somehow I still had some doubts about what it would be like if I got the Mk 6+.
That's why I decided to get a Feliks Euforia.
If you are looking for an alternative, take a look at the Echo 2 or the Elise from Feliks if the Euforia is too expensive for you.
On Youtube from upscale Audio you can find the video where he opened the lid and the workmanship is quite amazing.
But I'm sure you have something else in mind amplifier-wise.


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## Nooborghini

Well the Saga has ended.
Apos no longer supports littledot and took it off the shelves. No new stock returning, refunded my purchase and allowed me to keep the hardware as well.

Tragic, Little Dot has officially lost my future business. Apos is still #1! Hate to see them suffer for their mistakes.


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Well the Saga has ended.
> Apos no longer supports littledot and took it off the shelves. No new stock returning, refunded my purchase and allowed me to keep the hardware as well.
> 
> Tragic, Little Dot has officially lost my future business. Apos is still #1! Hate to see them suffer for their mistakes.


what?! Lucky they refused to allow me to receive a refund despite not having it for 2.5 weeks during my return period due to having to send it back.


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Well the Saga has ended.
> Apos no longer supports littledot and took it off the shelves. No new stock returning, refunded my purchase and allowed me to keep the hardware as well.
> 
> Tragic, Little Dot has officially lost my future business. Apos is still #1! Hate to see them suffer for their mistakes.


How do you know that they no longer support Littledot? I thought they just sold out and haven’t received any new shipments. Will they still allow me to get mine RMA’d? I just serrated the request a little over a week ago because there is buzzing that appears in the left most tube  input. I’ve swapped it with a replacement tube I bought and the other 3 tubes on it and it seems that the tube input has gone bad.


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## Nooborghini

AngryTank said:


> How do you know that they no longer support Littledot? I thought they just sold out and haven’t received any new shipments. Will they still allow me to get mine RMA’d? I just serrated the request a little over a week ago because there is buzzing that appears in the left most tube  input. I’ve swapped it with a replacement tube I bought and the other 3 tubes on it and it seems that the tube input has gone bad.


Unsure about that one, they told me they will not RMA mine or find me a replacement as they will no longer carry it.
Maybe it is only because I am in Canada and the shipping of it going back n forth is going to be $$$$$.


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Unsure about that one, they told me they will not RMA mine or find me a replacement as they will no longer carry it.
> Maybe it is only because I am in Canada and the shipping of it going back n forth is going to be $$$$$.


Yea I don’t see little dot listed on their website anymore, hopefully I can get mine fixed or exchanged for instore credit.


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## Nooborghini

AngryTank said:


> Yea I don’t see little dot listed on their website anymore, hopefully I can get mine fixed or exchanged for instore credit.


Best of luck my friend! Apos has been very good to deal with, hopefully that stays consistent


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Best of luck my friend! Apos has been very good to deal with, hopefully that stays consistent


Yea best of luck to you too on your Audio Journey! Probably won’t be the last time I’ll see you around here.


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## AngryTank

Nooborghini said:


> Best of luck my friend! Apos has been very good to deal with, hopefully that stays consistent


Btw I just got back from them that they will accept my RMA request on mine. I will most likely sell it afterwards as I don’t want to keep having these issues with it. I’ll probably buy a Pendent to go with my Auteurs.


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## AngryTank

Well it looks like Apos gave me the option to Return it or Try and deal with Little Dot, but to be honest I’m kind of done with Little Dot. I don’t want to have to deal with them anymore. As for Apos I want to continue doing Business with them but I don’t know What I would get to replace my Little Dot.


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## qingcai

what's the story with little dot?


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## qingcai

AngryTank said:


> I highly recommend staying away from Shenzhen Audio, shipping and warranty claims can take up to 3 months. Apos is seems to be fine with 2-7 day shipping warranty exchange, and with the extra year of coverage it’s kind of obvious if you are going to buy it and not swap the tubes out, go for Apos.


how fast of handling of   https://littledotus.com ? any idea?  thanks


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## AngryTank

qingcai said:


> how fast of handling of   https://littledotus.com ? any idea?  thanks


I wouldn’t know as I purchased mine Via APOS audio and they had it shipped to and from China. But it was within 1 week shipping.


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## qingcai

AngryTank said:


> I wouldn’t know as I purchased mine Via APOS audio and they had it shipped to and from China. But it was within 1 week shipping.


I placed my order on littledotus.com , after 2 days, they have not shipped yet. looks like all of them are  building on order.


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## AngryTank

qingcai said:


> I placed my order on littledotus.com , after 2 days, they have not shipped yet. looks like all of them are  building on order.


Yea, I wouldn’t know, but I do hope the best for you, I returned mine as it had too many problems and it either killed the tubes or the included and purchased tubes I bought were garbage bad. I ended up ordering a Pendant SE as it just compliments my headphones better too.


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## qingcai

qingcai said:


> how fast of handling of   https://littledotus.com ? any idea?  thanks


about 1 week, keep pushing them.


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## qingcai

received mine today,  
1, the Fan noise is too loud. 
2, and there is noise sound like from transformers.


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## qingcai

Contrails said:


> So, with the New VI+, have the fan noise, grounding and transformer issues been sorted?


fan, transformer  noise still exist


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## AngryTank

qingcai said:


> fan, transformer  noise still exist


That was the main reason I went with VIII SE, didn’t want to have to Mod the thing right away, There are extensive mods you can do to relieve that but I didn’t want to bother with that.


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## qingcai

AngryTank said:


> That was the main reason I went with VIII SE, didn’t want to have to Mod the thing right away, There are extensive mods you can do to relieve that but I didn’t want to bother with that.


I have fostex , which is 50ohm,  not sure viii se can drive it or not.


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## qingcai

Removed the box of the transformers , the transformer hum gone.  disconnected the fan,  and ordered to quiet fans. 
1st step is done.


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## qingcai

I think I will put this away and wait for winter come.


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## AngryTank

qingcai said:


> I have fostex , which is 50ohm,  not sure viii se can drive it or not.


Oh trust me, it can run it easily. It had too much power for what I needed and even on the lowest gain it was loud. Using single ends on low gain was more than enough for my HD820 and Auteur (both 300 ohm).


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## Nooborghini (May 17, 2021)

AngryTank said:


> Well it looks like Apos gave me the option to Return it or Try and deal with Little Dot, but to be honest I’m kind of done with Little Dot. I don’t want to have to deal with them anymore. As for Apos I want to continue doing Business with them but I don’t know What I would get to replace my Little Dot.


Personally I would not get another Little dot, EVER.

My local repair shop stated this:


> There was a chain reaction of failures.
> Regulator transistor shorted, then a zener diode shorted, then a resistor burned up.
> A well designed circuit would prevent this from happening, but this is not well designed unfortunately.
> 
> ...


I had this thing maybe for 1-2 months on a surge protector. Only other thing on it was my DAC.
Avoid it like the plague. Apos has been good on the relationship part but this ordeal with the product has been absolutely asinine.

It's tragic since I really liked the tube amp but I think I'm going to go with a DNA or WooAudio next since having his fail on me left a bad taste in my mouth for anything Little Dot. I might even scrap or sell my LD MK2.


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## Alpha1Ric

The LCD 4z, has impendence 15 ohm
I don’t understand too much the values impedance, the little dot Mk6+ is good to run the LCd4z? 

And I cant find the "normal" specs from the MK6+ :/

Will drive well? the loud volume it will be ok? (like 120cloclk)

Whats is your opnion? 

Thanks


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## Wolvebain

Hi bud... 
I can tell you that the normal LCD-4 (non-z version) will run without issue on the LDmk6+ (5W per channel output. check Amazon, Shenzen, etc. for the specs).

Planars are inefficient, so look at the sensitivity more than the impedance.


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## Maxx134 (Nov 7, 2021)

Nooborghini said:


> My local repair shop stated this:





Nooborghini said:


> There was a chain reaction of failures.
> Regulator transistor shorted, then a zener diode shorted, then a resistor burned up.
> A well designed circuit would prevent this from happening, but this is not well designed unfortunately.
> 
> ...


I believe your repair shop guy was 100% correct. The regulator power transistors were an older version, that was discontinued for a much stronger one, which they never upgraded to. They don't even sell those old transistors anymore. Also the zener diode was a very low wattage so couldn't handle a problem if transistors failed. Then we have metal film resistors that should never been in a PSU. They should have had power resistors or wire wound.

The issue is that China is a very, very competitive market and they must cut every corner they can to be cost competitive. They did have some better resistors in older units but stopped that. Then we have issues of the anode resistors to start slowly burning with age because they are not high enough wattage. Today's market you can place physically smaller resistors that can handle double 5w no problem.

Bottom line is that the design was genius, but some of the critical parts used, was poor. Once you fix the PSU, there is basically nothing else that would fail.

My guess is that the super cheap and brittle stranded wire, that is used for the regulator transistors broke, causing failure. Also, if you have the MK6, that is more prone for the transistor issues.
I never had the transistor issues with my MK8se (less output power) and still have the old transistors, but I already bought the backup transistors which are a set. You can't buy one, you must buy both.

Parts for this was cheap. You can order them on "Mouser" website, so I'm not understanding why it would cost $300, so I'm assuming that it is labor.

Also I would get higher wattage diode for replacement.
In the Mod thread, we basically revamp most of the power supply anyways, replacing all that.
Anyways, remember to tell the repair shop about replacing those brittle transistor regulator wires to the board.

If this amp was done properly, with highest grade components, it would easily reach playing field with end-game amps.
As is, the stock performance is nicely mid-tier.
But this can be also said with 100% of ALL tube amps in the market. _I have seen all the top units_. I have worked on them. They could all be improved. None uses the best parts.
That's on the owner to do.

The _*ONLY*_ tube amps, that are almost 100% *NOT* dependant on parts quality, is the designs by member @SonicTrance




Nooborghini said:


> I had this thing maybe for 1-2 months on a surge protector. Only other thing on it was my DAC.


Yes the MK6 can be susceptible to PSU strain with power tube rolling, or defective tube pops, or the dam internal wiring of the two regulator power transistors, sadly.

Recommendation is to not use stock tubes and use good tubes. And do not move unit around. Eventuality with age the anode resistors increase in value and any power surges are less, so the PSU doesn't fail except for heat and wire corrode. That would take some years.

Once you fix the issues it is a very reliable unit.
Up to you to fix. Then the next owner will enjoy. 😅


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## franci2105

Can you name the best tubes for the Little Dot MK VI? Thanks


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## SONYES

Sorry to disappoint you all  Little Dot MK VI 
I came to the conclusion that the amplifier is* bad*
And caused me damage to the HE1000 V2
Left channel dies with headphones ...
That's how the amplifier moved to the side and that's it
I finished with lamps and headphones HE 1000V2
A waste of money
And the sound is no better than transistor amplification
That's my opinion


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## Bonddam

Little Dot Ian Wu customer service sucks. Amp broke in 2 hours and no response from Ian Wu. If Ian doesn’t respond I’m going to have to send my amp to guy in Massachusetts for repair. My $3000 paper wait looks nice. If he gets too many emails then that’s a business problem.


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## Bonddam

I got an email and it's says they'll send me the two resistors and I get to fix the amp myself!!!???? Also I asked Ian if I can use 274B rectifiers before even getting the amp and he said that’s what he uses. In email he told me not to use them as that may be too much plate voltage???!!!!! What   do you know anything Ian!?? So paying a business $120 labor hours plus what ever else to get this amazing YD-L2 up and running. I’ll pay it because at least a competent builder can actually tell me what rectifiers I can use and also see if they are honest and parts used are highest grade transformers and capacitors they said. 

Be careful and don’t make my mistake if you live in USA. Should have not felt bad when I canceled the order and Ian gave me a sob story about cancellation fees they would pay because now I’m paying the repercussions of my decision on a brand new amp.  

Man can’t wait till my Woo WA234 is finished.

Only good thing about little dot is it sounds good but not as strong as they claim when using Abyss 1266 TC but great sounding.


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## qingcai

SONYES said:


> Sorry to disappoint you all  Little Dot MK VI
> I came to the conclusion that the amplifier is* bad*
> And caused me damage to the HE1000 V2
> Left channel dies with headphones ...
> ...


the sound is very good. i like the sound of  it.


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## Jingle525

SONYES said:


> Sorry to disappoint you all  Little Dot MK VI
> I came to the conclusion that the amplifier is* bad*
> And caused me damage to the HE1000 V2
> Left channel dies with headphones ...
> ...


Sorry to hear that man. This sucks. Not sure what happened. But I know that little dot mk8 is definitely not designed to drive planar headphones. It’s designed to drive flagship headphones from 10 years ago, like hd800 or T1. I wonder how common it is for mk8 to damage planar headphones


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## Deleeh

That shouldn't really matter at that price.
If not, there must also be a warning that the buyer knows.
I had a defect on the ld 1+ last year and also wrote to them and received no reply from them.

Even if it was a cheap amplifier, they could have contacted me.
I repaired it myself and it works again.
I replaced two new quality sockets and capacitors and that was it, but I still replaced one or two things while I was at it.

But I won't be buying anything from them again.
Unfortunately I have already read a lot of bad things about Little Dot.


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## Maxx134

Jingle525 said:


> I wonder how common it is for mk8 to damage planar headphones


Both the LD6 & LD8 have a relay to cut outputs if there is any fault, but I believe a pop may still get thru.
This is why you should never leave a headphones plugged in any tube amp when turning on or shutting down. 

I could been anything from amp failure, to bad tubes.

The HEK doesn't damage easily,  in fact you could say near impossible without high current, but I have destroyed one inadvertently by one cup going into the other causing the magnet bar/strips to get cracked, then they slowly collapse inward into the driver...


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## nsgarch

I really like my collection of refurbished vintage Yamaha planers.  But they need power to sound their best. The Little Dot, along with the incredible Melos SHA-1 and my monster Headroom Desktop Home Balanced w/ dac, all have the power to drive those planers without damaging them (or being damaged by them!)

It’s too bad the Melos doesn’t have balanced outputs – planers have always sounded better to me, when driven balanced.


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## Gymboy

Hi all, I am new to the thread, wondering how does Little Dot VI+ matches with HD800S? Rest of my chain is M17/ PL50. Thank you in advance,


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## chezzer

I find that the Hd800s is a lot less picky about the amp than people make out however it is very picky about the music quality, it hates bad recordings, unfortunately the headphone will not be great for every song no matter what amp you use, i found that it can go from sublime to downright horrible


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