# High end (IEM) cable thread: impressions, pics, comparisons and reviews.



## flinkenick (Aug 3, 2018)

*A primer on high-end cables*
*Introduction*

This article can be viewed as a brief discussion on the performance of cables throughout different tiers. This is just to provide a rough picture of the world of high-end upgrade cables, based on my experience. I can imagine that there’s a healthy skepticism about the actual increase in performance when you move up higher in quality. And I’m not referring to cable skeptics – I have no interest in ‘converting’ anyone, or starting a cable discussion. My goal is to provide a bit information for those already interested. As I’ve been a cable enthusiast for a couple of years now, I’ve been able to experience a relatively large number of upgrade cables (an estimate would be somewhere between 40 – 50).

I can look back at what I’ve experienced while gradually moving up through the world of cables, while also steadily learning to understand different components of analyzing sound. I too was very skeptic that cables could improve – and consistently remained skeptical, even though I gradually experienced an improvement at different price points. The problem is that it is very hard to imagine something beyond your own experience (Plato’s Cave, anyone?).

Before I start, I would like to point out that I’m not advocating that anyone should buy a high-end cable. I find it regrettable cables are incredibly expensive, and that the industry has taken a turn to the worse when it comes to increasing prices. I have been fortunate to receive samples on a few occasions, but in the majority of cases I paid for them myself, so I am very much in touch with this issue. However, as I will argue in a bit I don’t believe this is an issue specific to cables; rather, the increasing price you need to pay for an improvement in performance is very similar if not identical to that of iems.








*Do upgrade cables really work?*

There’s a very wide variety of cables in different price ranges available, with most ranging up from $100 up to $2500 at least, and some even further. But, there’s still very little information on the general performance of cables, and especially how this steadily increases throughout different price ranges. This is of course can largely be attributed to the lingering skepticism throughout the West towards cables. The majority of people in the US and Europe do not believe in cables, which is reflected in sites where we come to meet such as Head-Fi.org. So it requires a big leap of faith to lay down $300 or more, especially since there are almost no places to demo cables – and understandably so. So I imagine that even when people tentatively want to try a cable but are naturally still hesitant, they either go for a $100 cable or just switch stock cables to experiment. Consequentially, they come to the conclusion that they just wasted their precious earned money since they can’t hear a difference. I’ll tell you now – even for trained ears it is _extremely_ difficult to analyze and compare cheap cables. Due to the quality of the material, the extension is not very good so notes are more fuzzy and harder to compare, plus in most cases manufacturers use very similar copper or SPC wires.

Our world view is determined by the culture we live in, and shaped by the people around us. In Eastern Asia, the situation is reversed. If you’d take a look at Asian fora such as andaudio.com or erji.net, the general consensus is that cables do play a role in determining aspects of the signature or performance, and there’s little debate on the issue. Accordingly, more people find it worthwhile to invest in upgrade cables. The difference can at least partially be explained by the fact that cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore have evolved into major audio hotspots, where you can extensively demo every piece of equipment including cables. However, while speculative, we can also take the characteristics of the type of music people listen to in different cultures into account, such as range, pitch, flow and rhythm (Born & Hesmondhalgh, 2000), as well as innate biological and cultural differences that shape our hearing, such as that Asian voices tend have a slightly higher pitch and different rhythm (e.g. Brunelle & Kirby, 2016; Ohara, 1999). If we consider that one of the most fundamental improvements of high-end cable is its effect on the highest frequencies due to properties of the wires (the highest frequencies roll of strongest with lower quality), the connection with a sensitivity towards higher pitch is again speculative, but not unthinkable.

*Increasing performance of iems*

The general concept of diminishing returns is well-known. When it comes to iems, you can get a great sounding iem for $300; some examples are the Dunu DN2000j or Oriveti Primacy. These iems are a good deal better than $100 their entry level counterparts. When you experience such an iem for the first time, it’s hard to imagine you’re missing something, especially after already witnessing such an improvement from the lower segment. The bass, mids, and treble are all there, the stage is large enough for the instrument positioning, and the presentation as a whole feels fairly detailed. Nevertheless , when you move up to a $1000 iem, the difference can feel quite significant. The stage is larger, the midrange might have more body, and the level of detail again improves. The whole image gains in clarity, often feeling like a ‘veil has been removed’. Yet, when you move on to a TOTL $1600 ciem, there’s usually no doubt there’s again a significant improvement: the depth of the stage might result in a more effortless separation, and the resolution relies on its treble extension rather than the brightness of the signature, so the tone might be more natural, while the presentation is nevertheless more detailed (I wrote a piece about the difference between $300 and $1600 iem a while back on Headfonics).

*Increasing performance of cables*

While it’s hard to imagine, similar incremental improvements can more or less be experiences with cables. Admittedly, while the cost for improvement might be a $100 in the lower segment, it rapidly climes with steps of $500 shortly after – just as we’ve seen with iems.

_<$350_

You can get a solid cable for roughly $150-$200. Some examples are the *Effect Audio Ares II *or* PWaudio’s no 5*. Depending on the listener, the effects might vary from negligible, to having a nice moderate effect to polish up an iem’s signature, by adding a bit of warmth or extension for example. Depending on the listener, the difference might be considered around 5%-10% (just as a rough estimation to paint a picture). But when you arrive at a quality $350 silver cable, the effect should be more clearly noticeable, while still remaining affordable. The extension will be slightly better, possible resulting in better transparency, resolution, or airiness. An example would be one of the most popular silver cables in this tier, the *Toxic Silver Widow, *which provides a clear, slightly brighter tone, and a leaner lower midrange. By contrast, Effect Audio's Thor Silver II provides a smoother sound, albeit with less overt clarity and sparkle. It offers a more 'uncolored' hi-fi type of sound, where the warmth doesn't color the sound, even though it equally isn't bright. We might think of this effect as contributing to 20% of the sound. This range is what I would consider the cable equivalent of an iem like the DN2000j or Primacy. Significantly better than a $150 cable, but after this point the price to increase its performance will start to steeply rise. Excellent value.

_$700 – $1000_

Moving up the area of $700 – $1000 cables, the price range I consider ‘top-of-the-line’ for cables. Similar to $1600 TOTL ciems, there’s a wide range of cables that each have their own signature, performance, as well as ergonomics. They’re all very different, but generally should have similar performance when all aspects are averaged together. Much like ciems, some focus on tone, resolution, stage, or certain aspects of the signature (bass, mids or treble). And it’s almost pick 2 or so  – you can’t have it all. When we move into this range, we’ve made a fairly big leap in price compared to a quality silver cable – $500 or more. But we’ve also made a significant jump in quality. The cable’s unique signature starts to play a more prominent role in the sound. For me personally, a cable in this range will determine something in the order of 30% of the sound.

In this case, the listener’s personal preference and taste of music might become a better indicator than the actual iem with which it is paired. For instance, when I want to listen to pop, rock or electronic music, the cable pairing is more important for me than the iem; I have favorite cables for pop or electronic music, and can use those cables with any iem – a brighter iem like NT6pro or S-EM9, but also a warmer midcentric iem like Zeus-XIV or Prelude.

Some examples of different signatures and performance in this range are *Effect Audio’s* *Leonidas*, which has a very uncolored signature with a punchy bass as special feature, as well as a nice clean stage and good performance. It offers a precise sound, while its punchy low end give’s it something extra. Even though its tone isn't warm, it provides a smooth sound, similar to its cheaper relative, the Thor Silver II. *Labkable’s* *Samurai III* shares some general similarities, as both have an airy stage, and a fairly neutral but transparent signature. While the Samurai’s low end is not as powerful, it has a nice coloration in the upper midrange that gives some extra sparkle, as well as a slightly warmer midrange. The *Rhapsodio* *Golden* is a very unique cable, but hard to recommend because of its specific sound and stiff ergonomics. Due to its enhanced mid- and upper bass, it creates particularly thick notes and a full sound, although its stage isn’t very airy. The warmth from the low end is countered by a brighter upper midrange and treble. Upper midrange notes are thick and really pop out, making it highly engaging and perfect for synthetic-based melodies, even though its resolution and imaging is not very impressive – this is the (original) K10 of cables when it comes to sound. Though different than the Samurai III, both are favorites for pop or melodious electronic music. Wagnus chose SPC as the material for their flagship cable, the *Frosty Sheep*. Its tone bares the resemblance of SPC's commonly used as stock cables, fairly neutral with an emphasis on the upper midrange for additional clarity. Although its midrange is slightly dry, it impresses with its high resolution - even within this tier. The *PWaudio* *1960 2-wire* is unique due to its dark, warm, but smooth and resolving presentation. There’s a certain sensuality to its presentation that makes it involving for vocals, while being one of the most suitable to soften harsher treble. And then there’s the *plusSound* *Gold-Plated Copper 8-braid*, that performs admirably when it comes to stage airiness, resolution and transparency, but excels when it comes to its tonality – this remains one of my favorite cables for daily use. Due to its smooth, natural and accurate tone, suited for most instrument- or vocal-based music.







_$1300_

After hearing quality cables in the ‘top tier’, is the difference in this next range still discernible? I can only refer to the two cables I own(ed), but the answer is yes.  A year ago I decided to randomly sell a bunch of stuff to invest in a few high-end cables for a shootout I was planning for Headfonics. After receiving the first few, I was impressed with the resolution of the Wagnus Frosty Sheep and Rhapsodio Copper Wizard 8-braid (both $1000). But when I heard the *SilverFi IEM-R2*, I immediately recognized this was a cable that took sound to a next level. Although its midrange was pretty forward and warm, it easily matched the resolution and transparency of the other two, while adding a level of naturalness that could not be compared. With its natural tone and forward midrange, this was a specialist for male vocals, and a generally very romantic sound – a signature resembling the upcoming Warbler Prelude. While I’d be hesitant to ever call *Labkable’s Pandora* ‘natural’ due to its reference sound, its resolution and transparency easily bests the lower tier, while adding both an engaging, punchy bass, as well as wide and deep holographic stage. The Jomo Samba of upgrade cables. Due to its brighter than neutral tone, high level of precision, and punchy bass, one of my favorites for electronic music.

_$2000_

Paying 2K for an iem is an extraordinary amount, something we’ve only started to see since about a year – let alone for a cable. This is a shocking statement to make, but I would easily state that the 2 2K cables I have had a pleasure to listen to are both a clear, and by objective audiophile standards significant, step up from any cable below. In both cases, the ‘wow’ effect of these cables is strong and immediate – within a minute of listening I could tell this was something special.

*PWaudio’s 1960 4-wire’s* black background, treble sparkle, and high level of both transparency and resolution is a prominent feature with any pairing, and as such has a discerning role on the picture you’re seeing. A dark atmosphere filled with transparent detailed elements, regardless if the iem is innately midcentric or bright. The astonishing ability to bring minor details so apparently to the foreground. I’ve never been one to care much about the effects cables have on a stage, since they’re mostly relatively minor. Until I heard the *SilverFi IEM-R4*. This isn’t only the largest stage in its dimensions, it’s also one of the airiest. This is truly a holographic stage. ‘Neutral’ has many different interpretations, but the best one is when it refers to a balance between the frequencies, as well as an accurate tone. The SilverFi house sound has always been the very definition of naturalness.  A slightly warm but not too forward midrange, and a beautiful treble tone. Much like the 4-wire, its transparency and resolution cannot be compared to any cable below; so it doesn’t have to be bright to be one of the most detailed, relying on its stage and transparency. When you’re listening to an iem paired to the IEM-R4, the stage is mostly determined by the cable, as is the naturalness of the tone.

When you’re listening to one of these cables, the effect on an iem’s signature becomes so large, you’re almost listening to equal parts cable and iem. Accordingly, the difference between iems paired with such a cable becomes _smaller_, since a large portion of the sound is attributed to the cable. To picture what I mean with this, imagine two settings: one is a dark night in a rural area far from the city lights, with a starry night shining above you. There’s a spotlight fixated on the singer performing for you. The other is a grassy meadow on a sunny spring day, with a forest in the background. In this analogy, the distance to the singer, and the pitch and power of their voice is the variance of the iem – but the setting I described is from the cable.

*Analyzing a cable’s signature*

Cables are difficult to analyze, especially in the lower tiers. As the quality goes up, the differences become larger and easier discernible. You need to more of a pro to analyze a $100 cable compared to a $1000 one. But I’ll give some basic pointers based on the ‘MikePortnoy philosophy’ my fellow reviewer and friend handed down to me a few years back.

The key of breaking down a cable’s signature lies in understanding the relation between the (mid-)bass and the stage, since it determines a large deal of the presentation. So when you compare two cables, try to listen at how the different the bass is, and how it accordingly affects the stage. For instance, is the stage airier or even completely clean? Then most likely the mid- or upper- bass is attenuated. If a stage is still clean while having low end power (like Leonidas or Pandora), there’s most likely an increase in control, and possibly in sub- or mid-bass but not upper-bass. Accordingly, the this might take some of the warmth out of the midrange. As the size and warmth of midrange notes are strongly related to the bass presentation, thicker notes are usually an indication of enhanced mid- or upper-bass. The clarity of the signature can be deduced by the relation between the quantity of bass will combined with the prominence of the treble. Determining treble extension might require a bit more practice and understanding, but it can usually be determined from the definition of notes, as well as factors as transparency or the airiness surrounding notes and vocals.







*Trying cables for the first time*

Since people’s sensitivity for sound plays a role when it comes to cables, I would never recommend point blank paying a large amount for a high-end cable if you don’t have any experience with them. The effect of a more expensive cable will be easier noticeable than a cheaper cable, but even then there’s never a guarantee the result will be satisfactory at a personal level. Cables might be expensive, maybe even too expensive, but there is a fundamental reason why some cables are more expensive than others. Factors as the amount of wires (e.g. 4 vs. 8), or type of material (e.g. silver vs. copper), are negligible compared to the _quality _of the wires used. That’s why a basic 4-wire silver cable can range between $50 or $1000. Sadly enough, you can’t cut corners here. If a cable seems too good to be true (like a silver 8-braid costing new $200), it’s safe to say it is. Instead, if you are interested in trying a high-end cable for the first time, I would strongly advise the following: try buying a second hand silver cable from a respected cable manufacturer (you can find many in the for-sale sections of different fora). That way you’re guaranteed a certain quality, and if you find it’s not for you, you can sell it at a minimal loss. Furthermore, you don’t need to be an expert with extremely sensitive hearing to hear the benefits of a cable. When I started out in this hobby a couple of years back, I didn’t know what a soundstage was, or even the difference between the upper midrange or treble. I happened to roll in the world of cables because a friend told me ‘I had to get one in case the stock cable broke’, but even at the time it was easily discernible that the silver cable (a Toxic Silver Widow) cleaned up the presentation and made it more detailed. Of course, it would take time and experience to understand the mechanisms, but the effect was there.

_*Citations*_
Born, G., & Hesmondhalgh, D. (2000). _Western music and its others: Difference, representation, and appropriation in music_. University of California Press.
Brunelle, M., & Kirby, J. (2016). Tone and phonation in Southeast Asian languages. _Language and Linguistics Compass_, _10_(4), 191-207.
Ohara, Y. (1999). Performing gender through voice pitch: A cross-cultural analysis of Japanese and American English. In _Wahrnehmung und Herstellung von Geschlecht_ (pp. 105-116). VS Verlag für Sozialwissenschaften.


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## flinkenick (Aug 12, 2018)

A preliminary list of the Aftermarket IEM cable companies:

_ASIA
_
*- Brimar Cable*, Hongkong
Official site : https://www.brimar.net/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/brimar.net/
*- Labkable*, Hongkong
Official site : http://www.labkable-headfi.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/Labkable/
*- Mad Cable*, Hongkong
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/MadCableHK/
*- Modular Workshop*, Hongkong
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/ModularWorkshop/
*- Penon*, Hong Kong
Official site : https://penon-official.com/
*- PW Audio*, Hongkong
Official site : http://www.pwaudio.com.hk
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/pwaudio2014/
*- Rhapsodio*, Hongkong
Official site : https://www.rhapsodiostore.com/categories/iem-upgrade-cable
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/rhapsodiohk/
*- Song Audio*, Hong Kong
Official site : http://www.songs-audio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/SongsAudio/
-* Acoustune*, Japan
Official site : http://acoustune.com/
Shopping site : http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopbrand/ct3342/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/acoustune
*- Bispa*, Japan
Official site : https://bispa.co.jp/
Shopping site : http://www.e-earphone.jp/cable/Bispa
Twitter : https://twitter.com/Bispa_ATL
- *Brise Audio*, Japan
Official site : http://briseaudio.jp/index.html
Twitter : https://twitter.com/briseaudio
- *Eme Audio*, Japan
Official site : http://eme-audio.com/cable
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/emeaudio
- *Onso*, Japan
Official site : http://www.onsoproject.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/onsoproject/
- *Nobunaga* Labs, Japan
Official site : http://nobunagalabs.com/nobunagalabs/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/nobunagalabs/
- *Rosenkranz*, Japan
Official site : http://www.rosenkranz-jp.com/Product/earphone_headphone/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/rosenkranz.jp/
- *Wagnus*, Japan
Official blog : https://wagnus.exblog.jp/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/wagnus_official
- *AudioHive*, Singapore
Official site : https://sgaudiohive.com/collections/cables
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/sgaudiohive
- *Dita*, Singapore
Official site : http://www.ditaaudio.com/index.php/products/truth-replacement-cable.html
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/DitaAudio/
- *Effect Audio*, Singapore
Official site : https://www.effectaudio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/effectaudiosg/
- *Null Audio*, Singapore
Official site : https://www.null-audio.com/collections/iem-headphone-cable
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/NullAudio/
- *Hansound*, Taiwan
Official site : http://www.hansoundaudio.com/default.aspx
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/hansoundaudio/
- *Luminox Audio*, Taiwan
Official site : http://www.luminox-a.com.tw/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/luminoxaudio.tw/
- *OC Studio*, Taiwan
Official site : https://www.originalcable.com/
Official shopping site: http://class.ruten.com.tw/user/index00.phps=davidboyman&c=0&d=&o=3&m=1&p=1&k=
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/OriginalCableStudio/
- *Cross Lambda Audio*, Thailand
Official site : http://www.crosslambdaaudio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/crosslambdaaudio/
*- Satin Audio, Vietnam*
Official site : http://satinaudio.com/en/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/SatinAudio/

_AMERICA_

- plusSound
- BTG Audio / Q cables
- Whiplash Audio
- Moon Audio
- Double Helix
- Norne Audio
- Triton Audio

_EUROPE_

- Toxic Cables, England
- Forza Audioworks, Poland
- SilverFi, Turkey


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## MikePortnoy

I thank you much my dear friend, Nic @flinkenick. Your ideas are very informative and helpful for who is interested in getting an aftermarket cable for custom/universal monitors. I would like to post some short information about some of the cables that I have tried so far. I will also add some more info in the future.
 
*Labkable Takumi Cable:*
 
Labkable Takumi cable is transparent, resolved and airy sounding unit. There is slight warmness here, but less warm compared to stock cable in accordance with its mid-bass presentation. There is a significant improvement over stock cable in terms of midrange resolution, imaging, separation and stage depth. Its overall tone and low frequency performance is not the best, but still natural and satisfying.
 
Full review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/labkable-master-series-takumi-iem-cable/reviews/15113


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## flinkenick

*Toxic Cables ‘Silver Widow’ OCC Silver Litz ($325)  *
  
 The tight and controlled bass creates a very clean stage, while especially the upper treble is opened up - a sparkly cable that gives a solid improvement in resolution compared to a stock cable. The attack is quick, and it is overall a very dynamic sounding cable. On the other hand, notes are leaner as a consequence of slightly recessed lower mids. This helps to create a wider stage with excellent separation, but it is slightly colder than neutral without necessarily being bright. For this reason, one of my all-time favorite cables for electronic music. The Silver Widow is a great opener in the world of cables, offering apparent improvement at an affordable price.


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## MikePortnoy

plussSound Exo and Apollonian+ Cables:
  
 plusSound Exo series silver/gold cable has a smooth sound and weighty low end for a standard silver cable. It is also very impressive in accordance with detail creation style and rich midrange. As always, built quality and looking is very nice and plusSound’s customer service is one the best in the industry
  
 Apollonian+ cable from plusSound creates a definite improvement on the entire presentation with its stage depth, resolution and transparency. Additionally, it has an exceptional premium looking with a quite good built quality and customization options.
  
 Exo full review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/plussound-exo-series-cable/reviews/14640


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## flinkenick

*Rhapsodio RSD ‘2.98’ 8-braid; 2% gold, 98% silver alloy Litz construction ($550)*
  
 The 2.98 has a special tonality for a silver alloy cable; one of the clear examples that exempts that silvers per definition sound bright or analytical. It has a warm atmosphere and thick mid-bass presentation. Its treble extension and accordingly resolution are very good, but it is not a clear or sparkly cable due to the warmer atmosphere. Due to the thicker mid-bass, the 2.98 has very full and thick notes: this is my go-to cable for heavy or alternative rock. On the other hand I would not use it for EDM or acoustics. Cable is best suited for either thinner or brighter iems that need filling up, or just to increase fullness and midrange resolution. Favorite pairing is with either the Rhapsodio Galaxy or Solar.
  
 Full review:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/rhapsodio-2-98-silver-gold-occ-litz-8-strand/reviews/14783
  

  
*Rhapsodio Luna Pure Silver 8-braid ($500)*
  
 The Luna is a clear sounding cable with excellent sub-bass extension and slam; a basshead’s cable. The backround isn't cold, but has a pleasant hint of warmth, without being warm per se like the 2.98 or SilverFi IEM2. In accordance with bass, the Luna has a thicker note recreation, similar to the 2.98. But it is clearly not as warm. The upper treble is smooth; it’s not a high resolution cable per se, but very engaging for rock or edm due to its bass and thicker notes.


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## MikePortnoy

SilverFi Cables
  
 IEM-3 and IEM-4 cables from SilverFi are very impressive and they are better than Tralucent Uber Cable in terms of resolution, smoothness and true tone. From memory, Uber cable has a wider stage and slightly more dynamic presentation overall. However, it has stress in releasing notes and throwing details, while IEM-4 and IEM-3, they are much more smoother; and they have more natural note releasing and organic tone. I also got a chance to listen to IEM-R1 that is stellar. It is a big step from IEM-4 in terms of sound.
  
 IEM3 and IEM4 full review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/silverfi-iem-cables/reviews/14549


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## MikePortnoy

Forza Audio Cooper and Hybrid Cables
  
 They have very good looks with rich options such as plug, connector, sleeving and length. In general, copper Forza has slightly bolder and warmer presentation in accordance with lower mids and mid-bass notes, while hybrid Forza has more alive and detailed one. Their prices are very affordable and Matt is a nice person to make business with.
  
 Full review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/forza-audioworks-iem-cables/reviews/14216


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## flinkenick

*SilverFi IEM2; pure silver with individual nylon sheathing ($389).*
  
 The IEM2 cable has a very special tone; it has a warm atmosphere and very natural tonality – a romantic realism. It has a very smooth and enveloping sound. This is partially due to the attenuated upper treble; but because of this, it is very much a synergy cable for brighter iems – giving them the hint of warmth and naturalness they inherently miss. With iems that already have smooth upper treble, the pairing can result in a reduction of overall resolution and definition. For this reason I’d pair it with the Velvet rather than Zeus or Solar for instance.
  
 Flinkenick's review:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/silverfi-iem2-cable/reviews/15277
  
 MikePortnoy's review:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/silverfi-iem2-cable/reviews/13139


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## MikePortnoy

*Null Audio Vitesse Copper Cable (8 braided version): *
  
 Null Audio Vitesse Black Edition cable has a bit warm and alive sound with a spacious presentation. It carries a copper cable’s signs, but it isn’t a low frequency focused one. Overall body and dynamism is still here even if it has a tighter presentation. The best ability of the Vitesse cable is its resolution, spaciousness and open sound without adding brightness.
  
 Full review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/null-audio-vitesse-copper-cable/reviews/13242


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## flinkenick

*Rhapsodio RSD Silver Litz 8-braid ($600)*
  
 Rhapsodio’s Silver Litz cable has a nice bass texture, but colder mid-bass presentation along with a black background. This creates a very clean stage, with a slight recess in the lower midrange. The upper treble is extended, and the Sivler Litz can be considered a high resolution cable. The treble has good sparkle, and overall the cable has a slight V-shape. This shares some similarities with the Toxic Silver Widow; but the Silver Litz has higher resolution, while simultaneously having a blacker and colder atmosphere, while the Silver Widow has a closer to neutral background. The Silver Litz is an excellent cable to pair with warm iems, or those seeking better definition.


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## flinkenick

*Rhapsodio ‘Golden’; silver-plated silver & silver-plated copper hybrid ($700)*
  
 The Rhapsodio Golden is currently my favourite pairing with Zeus, and the one I'll compare future cables with - my 'gold standard' if you will hehe. While it doesn’t have the highest resolution (but still above average), it has a warm, natural and truly beautiful tonality. Zeus can have a slightly clinical treble, but the Golden cable gives it a richer, inherently warmer tonality. The lower treble opens up and gives Zeus more allround capabilities. Besides the IEM2 cable by SilverFi, only the second cable I’ve ever heard with such a rich and natural tonality, but without attenuating resolution in iems that are not bright. Since I received the Golden, 95% of my listening has been with Zeus connected to it.


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## flinkenick

*Labkable ‘Takumi’ V1; silver/silver-gold/copper hybrid 8-braid ($550)*
  
 Labkable makes a very exotic looking hybrid cable with a two-tone color and flat 8-braid. The Takumi has a very neutral sub-bass and attenuated mid-bass presentation; this gives it a very clean and airy stage, and instrument separation is very good; while at the same resulting in a relative leaner notes. Its tone is balanced and smooth at the top end, rather than sparkly.


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## flinkenick

_High End Cable review series #1: _
  
*DHC Symbiote OCC Silver Litz 8-braid ($800)*
  
 From the U.S. of A.: DHC’s Silver Litz 8-braid represents the classic high performance silver cable, using OCC wires with a litz construction.


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## flinkenick

_High End Cable review series #2:_
  
*Wagnus ‘Frosty Sheep’ ($1000)*
  
 Wagnus’ recently released flagship cable. A 4-braid OFC silver-plated copper.


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## flinkenick

_High End Cable review series #3:_
  
*Rhapsodio ‘Wizard’ OCC Copper 8-braid ($1000)*
  
 Rhapsodio’s current flagship has a warm V-shape, set against a black background. The mid-bass is slightly enhanced, giving some warmth to the presentation. The midrange has a slightly leaner body, followed by a mildly enhanced treble. It’s most discerning feat is its high resolution – it’s currently defending the position of highest resolution I have personally heard so far. Comes in a fine mesh sleeving. 4-braid retails at $500.


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## flinkenick

_High End Cable review series #4:_
  
*SilverFi IEM-R2; pure silver 10-braid with individual nylon sheathing ($1295)*
  
 A truly spectacular cable.  In line with the SilverFi lineup, a slightly warm and beautiful tonality. Unfortunately, not even the flagship (IEM-R4).


----------



## proedros

nic, you lucky person  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 great job , subscribed and i want to ask which cable is good to beef up the midrange for a slighty v-shaped CIEM ?

 great job again (but you are one lucky bugger 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## flinkenick

Hi Sotos one of my favorite cables for iems with a thinner midrange would be the Rhapsodio 2.98. 
  
 Another good option (especially for brighter iems), is one of the SilverFi's like the IEM2.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

Should include a review of the dita truth cable ( if possible )


----------



## flinkenick

I read something nice about it a while back but I can't find any info on it. Do you have it? How much is it btw?


----------



## lookingforIEMs

flinkenick said:


> I read something nice about it a while back but I can't find any info on it. Do you have it? How much is it btw?




Used to have it. Sold it to a friend. It's only obtainable if you cut the cable off of a truth iem. I guess street price is around 350 usd. At least that's the price someone sold it at on the FS forums here on head fi.

Pretty good cable. Very resolving and quite bright. However, it's caveat is that it breaks easily. Had to repair it once cos of this and repair it for my friend. It broke the day I sold it to him. Very fragile I guess


----------



## flinkenick

Well they've had plans to sell it separately for quite a while, they mention it on their site. But there's still an empty link to the store, so I guess it's not available yet.
  
 A friend of mine emailed them a couple of months back, think they replied it was going to be something around $500.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

flinkenick said:


> Well they've had plans to sell it separately for quite a while, they mention it on their site. But there's still an empty link to the store, so I guess it's not available yet.
> 
> A friend of mine emailed them a couple of months back, think they replied it was going to be something around $500.





Well their iem in the skunkworks is a detachable cable iem. So I guess they probably would sell it separately soon. Don't know about international pricing. However, I heard last year that a local pricing of ~$700-1k might happen. Not 100% sure how much they're gonna price it now tho.


----------



## flinkenick

Well it's interesting, especially if the cable is half the value. Or the separate price is just a lot more of course.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

flinkenick said:


> Well it's interesting, especially if the cable is half the value. Or the separate price is just a lot more of course.




True. We'll just have to wait and dream about it until it comes out I guess


----------



## Blommen

This thread is really informative. Flinkenick, I missed the Rhapsodio Silver Litz and that makes me sad What other cable would you recommend for the Rti2? Under 800$ 
  
 I really want to try some of the SilverFi but I'm scarred to take the leap, since they are so unique...


----------



## flinkenick

Thanks buddy  Did you receive your RTi2 yet?

Well as you may know I always listened to it in combination with the RSD Silver Litz. The combination is especially good because the RTi2 is an iem that is characterized by its mid-bass, which is very warm and benefits from a colder presentation. A quality silver will improve its bass texture, separation and resolution.

A SilverFi is good, but not necessary because the Rti2 already is inherently warm. A lot of silvers will work well the Rti2; I also like the RSD Luna or Toxic Silver Widow with it. Just check the classifieds for a quality silver that retails around $300 - $350.


----------



## Blommen

flinkenick said:


> Thanks buddy  Did you receive your RTi2 yet?
> 
> Well as you may know I always listened to it in combination with the RSD Silver Litz. The combination is especially good because the RTi2 is an iem that is characterized by its mid-bass, which is very warm and benefits from a colder presentation. A quality silver will improve its bass texture, separation and resolution.
> 
> A SilverFi is good, but not necessary because the Rti2 already is inherently warm. A lot of silvers will work well the Rti2; I also like the RSD Luna or Toxic Silver Widow with it. Just check the classifieds for a quality silver that retails around $300 - $350.




I have not received it yet, Mike has told me that it will be finished next week so I'm excited

Also I feel like I have been looking in classifieds every day since I got the Rti2 but nothing has popped. Considering the 2.98 or the Gold. Or whiplash module system. Or silverfi...argh I just need my endgame cable so I can sleep peacefully  btw do you know if a 2.5trrs to 3.5trs converter will alter the sound? Got one from Null audio...

Anyways this thread is great you guys


----------



## flinkenick

Hmm I guess it goes in phases, there are times when there are several that don't get sold for a while. 

I think an adaptor will change the sound, adapters are usually mini cables so in the end you're passing the signal through a different cable again which will change the conductivity etc.


----------



## Overkill Red

Great job so far, TS! Have you considered looking at the Mars and Leonidas cables from Effect Audio?


----------



## flinkenick

Thanks mate appreciate that. I have actually  The Mars is a beautiful looking cable, I was considering it for the review series but there are so many options and so little money!


----------



## Kerouac

lookingforiems said:


> Used to have it. Sold it to a friend. It's only obtainable if you cut the cable off of a truth iem. I guess street price is around 350 usd. At least that's the price someone sold it at on the FS forums here on head fi.
> 
> Pretty good cable. Very resolving and quite bright. *However, it's caveat is that it breaks easily.* Had to repair it once cos of this and repair it for my friend. It broke the day I sold it to him. Very fragile I guess


 
  
 Hmmm, that's a red flag in my book 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


flinkenick said:


> Well they've had plans to sell it separately for quite a while, they mention it on their site. But there's still an empty link to the store, so I guess it's not available yet.
> 
> A friend of mine emailed them a couple of months back, think they replied it was going to be something around $500.


 


lookingforiems said:


> Well their iem in the skunkworks is a detachable cable iem. So I guess they probably would sell it separately soon. Don't know about international pricing. However, I heard last year that a local pricing of ~$700-1k might happen. Not 100% sure how much they're gonna price it now tho.


 
  
 Here's some new information guys: http://www.head-fi.org/t/739745/ibasso-oriolus-hybrid-iem/210#post_12517605


----------



## lookingforIEMs

kerouac said:


> Here's some new information guys: http://www.head-fi.org/t/739745/ibasso-oriolus-hybrid-iem/210#post_12517605





Yea saw that too. I'm happy it's not as expensive as I heard it might have been


----------



## unknownguardian

anyway guys if anyone if you are interested. i am looking to sell an self-terminated truth cable with mmcx connector for 320usd. *shameless advertisement*


----------



## mrazik

This will be my favourite thread. I did try past last few monts few cables and I found, that it surely worth it, to replace stock cable. I did that on my Noble IEMs and Trinity Atlas too. It is kind of tuning with cable and tips replacements, but results can be surprising.


----------



## Kundi

mrazik said:


> This will be my favourite thread. I did try past last few monts few cables and I found, that it surely worth it, to replace stock cable. I did that on my Noble IEMs and Trinity Atlas too. It is kind of tuning with cable and tips replacements, but results can be surprising.




What cable did u replace atlas with?

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


----------



## mrazik

kundi said:


> What cable did u replace atlas with?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


 

 Copper cable from Audio Minor. It look great and sound is more mature. It is very good and well craftet cable.


----------



## flinkenick

mrazik said:


> This will be my favourite thread. I did try past last few monts few cables and I found, that it surely worth it, to replace stock cable. I did that on my Noble IEMs and Trinity Atlas too. It is kind of tuning with cable and tips replacements, but results can be surprising.


 
 That's nice to hear mate, do share your impressions down the road!


----------



## mrazik

flinkenick said:


> That's nice to hear mate, do share your impressions down the road!


 

 I will. Over the weekend I will take some photos and wil write some my impressions I have in combination with my IEM. I´m true cable believer.


----------



## Kundi

mrazik said:


> kundi said:
> 
> 
> > What cable did u replace atlas with?
> ...


 
 Those are nice? You have a link? Tried googling and got amazon. Is that where you bought it from?


----------



## mrazik

kundi said:


> Those are nice? You have a link? Tried googling and got amazon. Is that where you bought it from?


 

 PM sent


----------



## proedros

mrazik said:


> Copper cable from Audio Minor. It look great and sound is more mature. It is very good and well craftet cable.


 
  
  
 tell us more , looking for a nice cable that beefs up mids and does not kill your wallet
  
 also , link to buy ?


----------



## mrazik

Patience guys please  I got today home from work earlier and I'm working on some more details for you. Will add here later today.


----------



## mrazik

Please let me add my few cents to this thread. As I mentioned I’m cable believer, but maybe more I believe, that to get perfect sound, it require effort to put all puzzle pieces together correctly. If you lucky and you will get good synergy between player and headphones, cables and tips will than take sound on higher level. Rightly chosen components will add music emotion and that will give you joy of listening.
  
 I really do like to listen good music. Few years back I got nice HiFi equipment in my room, but I got kids and all my HiFi toys were removed. Since that I mostly listen music in car only or on my iPod. And I was happy. Last year I start seek for way how to improve iPod performance. I added next to iPod some amplification, better earphones, etc. After a while I found, that I’m on spiral. Buy something, buy something else, sale previous one and again. And honestly this crazy ride did not get any slower yet.
  
 Past last few months I collect few cables and I like to share my impressions with you. First aftermarket cable I ever purchased here on H-F is Norne Audio Vorpal. I guess Norne Audio do not need further introduction, it is very well known name here in this community. So let`s have a look on cable itself.
  
 It is hybrid copper/silver cable in 50/50 split between Ag and Cu. Cable look very nice with red/silver coloration. There are used Eidolic parts, which just underline first quality of Vorpal. Wire knitting is very symmetrical. You can order various termination, length, Y splits and you can choose between 4 and 8 wire model. Cable have central core and is very flexible and light. Sonically will open scene compare to stock cable and will add resolution and details, but still remain very neutral and soft. I like to use Vorpal with both of my Noble earphones ( K10U and Savants ). I believe that Vorpal will fit to most other brands and models too.


----------



## mrazik

And now guys I have a big surprise for you. *Audio Minor*, this name is one very nice chap a.k.a. compicat, member here on Head-Fi. I have two his cables. One Silver, one made from Copper. Both are equipped with Eidolic parts and both are extremely well crafted. As you can see on photos knitting is as good as on Vorpal or any other cable you may get from better-known names. Audio is not behind in this not for a little. Copper cable is also nicely flexible and not suffer with tangle.
 I have copper cable with my Trinity Atlas as I mentioned alredy. I like Atlases a lot, but for my taste they sound heavy even with black filters, which should be most bright ones. Combination of copper Audio Minor cable and comply tips give me sound I like. Still very impressive bas, but there is more details, a bit wider soundstage and great look. I must confess, that those red/blue tubes on MMCX connectors are my creativity, but it looks cool. Don’t they?
 Silver cable is made on same quality level as his copper brother. Is a bit stronger and less flexible. This cable is equipped with memory wire and that is only point I have very minor criticism. This memory part will be better, if will be about few cm longer. Cable is very firm and that make it a bit less flexible. So for good fit I think will be longer memory wire benefit. Sonically is silver cable very good too. Is a bit brighter and is adding details and resolution. So for those who have darker earphones, can be silver Audio Minor cable good choice. I try this one with K10U and sound is more airy.
 According to my opinion are Audio Minor cables very good alternatives to other big names in cable business. It is very admirable, that these nice products are made by one of us here as his hobby. My absolute respect and recommendation.


----------



## Kundi

Thanks for posting. Already inquired about the copper cable.


----------



## mrazik

Today last one is comaparison between all mentioned cables side by side. So you can see sizes and quality of each one of mentioned cables. From left are :
 Copper Audio Minor
 Toxic Silver Poison
 Silver Audio Minor
 Norne Audio Vorpal


----------



## mrazik

kundi said:


> Thanks for posting. Already inquired about the copper cable.


 

 You will be not disappointed.


----------



## Kerouac

@mrazik some nice pics/posts above...really enjoyed reading them!
@flinkenick & @Mike Portnoy: thanks for starting up this high end cable thread, great idea imo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will also post some pics and basic information/impressions (I'm not that good at detailed sound description) on some of my own cables soon (probably next week)
 Cheers to ya all!


----------



## Jalo

This is a great great thread and thanks for setting this up. I am very interested in the Crystal Cable and the Tralucent cable and would like you experts share some opinions on them and if at all possible please compare them to some other well known cables.


----------



## MikePortnoy

jalo said:


> This is a great great thread and thanks for setting this up. I am very interested in the Crystal Cable and the Tralucent cable and would like you experts share some opinions on them and if at all possible please compare them to some other well known cables.


 
  
 Actually Tralucent cables don't sound good for their prices when we make comparisons with other cables. Considering this, I think that the best cable from Tralucent is the silver/gold thin black one. UBER is also good, but less competitive in its price line. For example, SilverFi R1 bests it with a truer tone overall.


----------



## Jalo

How about crystal cable? Does anyone has any experience with them?


----------



## jhlin09

jalo said:


> How about crystal cable? Does anyone has any experience with them?


 

 Crystal cable is very overpriced. Demo-ed one of their cables locally before, had little difference when compared to my silver cables.


----------



## flinkenick

They are from Holland as well, so I emailed them twice to see if they wanted to participate in my review series but they never answered unfortunately.


----------



## jhlin09

mrazik said:


> Please let me add my few cents to this thread. As I mentioned I’m cable believer, but maybe more I believe, that to get perfect sound, it require effort to put all puzzle pieces together correctly. If you lucky and you will get good synergy between player and headphones, cables and tips will than take sound on higher level. Rightly chosen components will add music emotion and that will give you joy of listening.
> 
> I really do like to listen good music. Few years back I got nice HiFi equipment in my room, but I got kids and all my HiFi toys were removed. Since that I mostly listen music in car only or on my iPod. And I was happy. Last year I start seek for way how to improve iPod performance. I added next to iPod some amplification, better earphones, etc. After a while I found, that I’m on spiral. Buy something, buy something else, sale previous one and again. And honestly this crazy ride did not get any slower yet.
> 
> ...


 


 A beautiful, well crafted cable indeed!


----------



## jhlin09

overkill red said:


> Great job so far, TS! Have you considered looking at the Mars and Leonidas cables from Effect Audio?


 


 They look gorgeous, but price-wise... hmmmm


----------



## flinkenick

DHC Symbiote 8-braid is shipped!


----------



## Jalo

flinkenick said:


> They are from Holland as well, so I emailed them twice to see if they wanted to participate in my review series but they never answered unfortunately.



Thanks for your thoughts. I wish I have some more in depth review and comparison. But please share your impression with the DHC Symbiote, looked like a killer cable. Btw, how long and how much is the Symbiote?


----------



## mrazik

PlusSound Apollonian series. Cable is well crafted and it seems very resistant. Despite of its heavy-duty look is very comfortable. Cable on pictures is made from cryo treated copper and is a bit more detailed, than stock cable. You can choose many different combination of termination, material ( from copper to gold plated silver ) and many more. Price vary from 189USD to over 500USD.


----------



## mrazik

Annother comparison
  
 PlusSound Apollonian
 Nonrne Audio Vorpal
 Stock Noble Audio


----------



## lookingforIEMs

mrazik said:


> PlusSound Apollonian series. Cable is well crafted and it seems very resistant. Despite of its heavy-duty look is very comfortable. Cable on pictures is made from cryo treated copper and is a bit more detailed, than stock cable. You can choose many different combination of termination, material ( from copper to gold plated silver ) and many more. Price vary from 189USD to over 500USD.





Interesting. Looks like they have upped their build quality from an earlier version apollonian I used to have.


----------



## jmills8

Here is a cable I picked up after demoing eight different high end cables. My main focus was on the sound. Conmfort was secondary and looks was not important. Well it sounded great, better than great. A huge seperation between instruments, vocals clear and a bit upfront, deep deep sub bass and impactful. Treble extended very politely. Lucky for me it is very soft and flexible. Cable is by DH made of Copper with Silver plating. Interesting it sounds more like a pure Silver cable that has a dynamic sound.


----------



## jmills8

YY Pro Audio 7N OCC Copper cable with 2.5. This cable is heavy and built like a tank. Very Dynamic sounding while having a wide sound stage, silky mids and very clear treble. Easy to listen to this cable all day long.







Modified connectors


----------



## Kerouac

jmills8 said:


> Here is a cable I picked up after demoing eight different high end cables. My main focus was on the sound. Conmfort was secondary and looks was not important. Well it sounded great, better than great. A huge seperation between instruments, vocals clear and a bit upfront, deep deep sub bass and impactful. Treble extended very politely. Lucky for me it is very soft and flexible. *Cable is by DH* made of Copper with Silver plating. Interesting it sounds more like a pure Silver cable that has a dynamic sound.


 
  
 It looks (and obiously) sounds great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Where did you order/buy it and what was the price?
 I could only find this *DH cable* site: http://www.silversonic.com/
 but couldn't find that specific one...


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> It looks (and obiously) sounds great
> 
> Where did you order/buy it and what was the price?
> I could only find this *DH cable* site: http://www.silversonic.com/
> but couldn't find that specific one...


 Double Helix (USA). The easiest to use on the go plus top sounding cable I ever used.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

Plussound GPSP is pretty TOTL too. And DHC's complement series. But I must admit that it's almost impossible to use any complement for portable use. Way too thick


----------



## jmills8

lookingforiems said:


> Plussound GPSP is pretty TOTL too. And DHC's complement series. But I must admit that it's almost impossible to use any complement for portable use. Way too thick


Yeah there are cables that can get in the way. Im in Hong Kong walking, taking buses and jumping on trains 3 hours a day. I wont get a cable that will be too troublesome to take out.


----------



## MikePortnoy

Recently launched Leonidas IEM cable from Effect Audio has arrived. I am impressed with its conductors' flexibility and premium leather case. After some burn in, I will share my impressions about it.


----------



## flinkenick

Classification scale edited and moved to post 2!


----------



## LoryWiv

flinkenick said:


> *(Cable) classification rating system.*
> I came up with an ingenious way to classify the tone and general characteristics of a cable: flinkenick’s _Seasonal Classification Systemtm_ (patent pending). A sound can be classified by one of the four seasons; winter, spring, summer and autumn. It might also help to provide an easier picture of the sound different types of cables can offer.
> 
> While resolution is discussed, it refers mostly to ambiance and tonality as there is a lot of variance in resolution based on quality. The iem/headphone examples below also refer to tonality, not resolution per se.
> ...


 
 Very evocative and well-written, *flinkenick*, and whether one fully agrees with the characteriztions you offer, it is an interesting construct and I find it not just applicable to cables but a nice metaphor for sound signatures in general. Kudos for this post, *flinkenick*.


----------



## flinkenick

lorywiv said:


> Very evocative and well-written, *flinkenick*, and whether one fully agrees with the characteriztions you offer, it is an interesting construct and I find it not just applicable to cables but a nice metaphor for sound signatures in general. Kudos for this post, *flinkenick*.


 
 Thanks my friend, appreciate that.


----------



## Overkill Red

Going with the seasonal rating system, I'll classify the Effect Audio Mars as a nice Spring!


----------



## flinkenick

Man that Mars cable just eluded me - it almost made it in the upcoming review series. It sure is a beautiful cable, feel free to post a pic or two man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, any further impressions would be welcome!


----------



## Overkill Red

flinkenick said:


> Man that Mars cable just eluded me - it almost made it in the upcoming review series. It sure is a beautiful cable, feel free to post a pic or two man
> 
> Also, any further impressions would be welcome!




Wish I had a better camera.. My phone doesn't do the cable justice!
I'm actually letting go of my cable to try other options, as I seem to like how a colder cable sounds (winter).

As for impressions, I'll try to drop some impressions once I get a chance to compare it to other cables, but characteristics wise the cable is pretty much a typical spring cable: slightly warm, extends well up top and down low with nice sweet mids (without any particular tilt in any frequencies). I'd say it's a slightly warm and aggressive cable, to be paired with any neutral custom that you want to make more fun and warm sounding.


----------



## flinkenick

overkill red said:


> Wish I had a better camera.. My phone doesn't do the cable justice!
> I'm actually letting go of my cable to try other options, as I seem to like how a colder cable sounds (winter).
> 
> As for impressions, I'll try to drop some impressions once I get a chance to compare it to other cables, but characteristics wise the cable is pretty much a typical spring cable: slightly warm, extends well up top and down low with nice sweet mids (without any particular tilt in any frequencies). I'd say it's a slightly warm and aggressive cable, to be paired with any neutral custom that you want to make more fun and warm sounding.


  
 Interesting, keep us updated!


----------



## flinkenick

And now for some more wallet friendly cable options! Forgive the crappy pics, will make some better ones later.
  
_Ortofon ec7S SPC ($140)_
  
 Starting with the Ortofon, a SPC mmcx factory made cable. The cable looks nicer in real life than t. The bottom the pic below. Below the splitter is shielded for instance, after the splitter it's just a single wire. I hadn't noticed it before on the website selling it. The shielding looks good, it gives it a nice quality finish. The connectors are a big large and chunky for my taste with 'Ortofon' written on it, but overall I find the cable looks very appealing. I'll try to make a nice high res pic later today.
   

  I compared it a while back on the S-EM9 to the standard cable There's an improvement in the control of the mid-bass, it's slightly attenuated; this improves the clarity in the midrange and treble, lifting a bit of a veil off the midrange. The mid/upper treble regions also opened up a bit more, giving just that extra bit of sparkle and treble extension - giving a nudge to its overall resolution. The opened-up treble accentuates the S-EM9's slight U-shaped signature a bit more though; but more importantly, it just feels clearer and more precise. It's not a warm cable (though also not cold), the focus is on clarity. Mids are slightly more distant, and overall it gives it a bit more 'hi-fi' sound, but I like it. I think the price/value ratio is excellent at $140.


----------



## flinkenick

_CC PH Copper cable with modular system ($190 / w modular $220)_
  
 CC PH is a Philippines based cable manufacturer, that makes headphone and iem cables. They currently offer one iem cable I believe, a hand-made copper cable. Its real selling point however, is a very clever modular system that is added at a very small extra cost of $30. The cable is terminated at 3.5mm trrs balanced for Hifiman/ZX2/Plenue S; but you also receive an adapter for the AK 2.5 mm trrs as well as a regular 3.5 mm trs. So one cable fits all balanced and regular systems, very handy for the modern audiophile that might have multiple different systems.
  
 The cable has a solid build, with a standard copper-coloured 4-braid. Its tone is relatively neutral; it's neither particularly warm or bright, although it is warmer than neutral from the mid-bass. Mids are neither forward nor distant, and the treble is smooth. Full review coming soon with comparisons.


----------



## flinkenick

_Lea'r C8 Copper & SPC hybrid with modular system ($155 / w modular $185)_
  
 Like the CC PH Copper, the Lea'r comes with a similar modular system that works on all balanced and regular systems. The cable itself is quite beautiful and unique, with twisted silver and orange strands rather than a regular braid. This gives the cable a somewhat exotic appearance, with a kind of Persian style flair. The cable is terminated as 2.5 mm trrs, but comes with an adapter for 3.5 mm trrs as well as regular 3.5 mm trs.
  
 The C8 has a tonality that is more typical to SPC's rather than coppers; a focus on clarity, detail and note articulation, while the vocal placement is a bit more distant. Compared to the CC PH it has more clarity, while the CC PH is smoother. Overall, the cable has a bit of a U-shape, suited for those looking for more clarity. It discerns itself with its beautiful looks, and versatile modular system. This picture doesn't quite do it justice, but more impressions and better pics will follow.


----------



## flinkenick

_Brief impressions of the 'Frosty Sheep', Wagnus' recently launched flagship cable._
  
 The Frosty Sheep is a true high resolution cable; in fact it sits at the very top with cables as the Rhapsodio Wizard OCC, possibly even besting it. I had very high expectations of this cable, and hearing it its signature is slightly different than what I expected based, being less warm. But on the other hand I wasn't expecting this resolution.
  
 With the S-EM9 the focus is on clarity, with a clear lift in the upper treble, making high hats more prominent, while the bass is slightly attenuated with less warmth from the mid-bass. It's not a cold cable however, with the Rhapsodio Silver Litz being colder for instance. Instead its neither warm or cold, but mostly clear. 
  
 With the warmer Solar, the pairing is smooth and provides that midrange definition the Solar can use!
  
 Needless to say, I am very pleased with this cable. And while I haven't listened long since it is still burning, it is already among my favourite cables. It sets the standard for detail, clarity and resolution!


----------



## MP53

Well written.
  
 The cables interaction with the equipment, and the geographic location (and power company) will provide different results to different ears.  Many variables. One of the reasons why this is such a controversial subject!
  
 LOL, not as ambitious an endeavor as MLK, and I am happy to say that no one will get hurt by providing their observations on cables!


----------



## Blommen

Flinkenick, please don't keep us waiting on the Silverfi iem-r2


----------



## flinkenick

I'm still waiting on it myself  I recieved it a while back, but had to send it back because the trrs was terminated wrong so I was only getting one side. I hope it will get shipped this week.


----------



## Blommen

I am sorry to hear that. And then you have all the burn-in hours...well I hope you get it soon!


----------



## Peter Hyatt

Will you be reviewing any of the Moon Audio Silver Dragon cables?


----------



## flinkenick

peter hyatt said:


> Will you be reviewing any of the Moon Audio Silver Dragon cables?


 
 No plans for it, but anybody else is welcome to share their impressions


----------



## flinkenick

_*Audiominor lineup impressions:*_
  
_-'Celestine' silver/gold ($375)_
_-'Mahogany' copper ($260)_
_-'Marquise' silver/gold & copper hybrid ($350)_
  
 I recently received Audiominor's lineup to share some impressions. I came in contact with Bogac when I need some connectors and jacks changed for cables I wanted to sell, and we ended up talking a bit. Bogac is a kind-hearted soul, a true gentleman and genuine person. When you hang around in this business long enough you get to deal with a lot of different types, so I'm always very pleased with the positive exceptions - Bogac definitely belonging in that category.
  
 Audiominor recently refreshed their website and lineup, and now feature three iem cables: a silver/gold alloy, copper and hybrid cables. All cables use a litz construction (each wire consists of multiple smaller wires). The cables have a high quality feel to them, with thick wires, a solid build construction and quality Eidolic components (plug, splitter and connectors; similar to Norne cables for instance), as well as a spherical wooden slider. However, the cables can be customised with different components to match personal taste. The wires are a bit stiffer, which makes them slightly less flexible than a thin stock cable, but not to the point you can't curl them up into a slim carrying case. All in all, the cables have the solid feel and looks of a quality upgrade cable. 
  
_'Celestine' Silver/Gold Litz _
 Audiominor's silver/gold has a recognisable tone, a classic signature for modern silver alloy cables: a clear sound with punchy bass and transparent treble. The cable does have a slight V-shape with less prominent lower mids and slightly enhanced treble. Instruments are well defined, and there's an apparent upgrade in overall resolution and detail retrieval from a stock cable. Vocals lack a bit of lower midrange fill, and do sound less deep and full especially compared to the Mahogany copper cable. The cable refrains from sounding cold or bright, as there is a pleasant warmth from the mid-bass that prevents it from sounding analytical. The Celestine is a cable that competes with cables as the Toxic Silver Widow, DHC Symbiote V3 Silver Litz, and Rhapsodio Luna to name a few; both in price and performance.
  

  
_'Mahogany' Copper Litz_
 The Copper Mahogany is a beauty to behold with its dark brown, chocolate coloured wires. Generally coppers have that sort of pinkish orange look, but the Audiominor looks very classy indeed. The copper is smooth in the upper midrange and lower treble, and warm and lush, due to a thicker mid-bass presentation; yet the treble doesn't drown in the warmth. I've been listening to a lot of silvers last months, so I was very pleasantly surprised with the Mahogany. It gives a natural tone to a brighter iem like the Galaxy, but even when listening with the Solar with its enhanced mid-bass (usually best paired with a high resolution silver), the sound was a very musical combination of warmth with sparkly treble. Vocals are its strong suit; powered with warmth from the mid-bass, they sound emotional and deep. 
  

  
_'Marquise' Silver/Copper Hybrid_
 The Marquise is the love baby of the former two, consisting of alternating silver/gold and copper litz wires. The silver/white and dark brown form a beautiful contrast, that remind me of the white and dark chocolate sprinkles I gobbled up as a kid. I've had a few hybrids before, but have never been a great fan of them so it took a while before I picked up the Marquise. But it might be the one that surprised me the most, mainly because of its spacious sounding stage. Its signature is very linear, with a controlled mid-bass and moderate warmth and treble; but in accordance with its mid-bass control, the separation is outstanding and the stage is airy and wider than the other two. A very pleasant and allround cable to listen to; it's well paired with a warmer iem like the Solar that gives it a cleaner stage, a brighter iem like the Galaxy or something more neutral like the S-EM9 or Apollo. 
  

  
 All in all, Audiominor's cables left a very good impression and it's nice to see a fresh company being able to compete with the established companies like Whiplash and Toxic. Looking forward to hearing more in the future!


----------



## jmills8

Recieved my custom 2.5 and I added a Plussound Copper/Gold cable. Stock cable connected to the Mojo sounded very good but the Plussound oo boy it scaled so high.


----------



## flinkenick

Those gold wires sure look nice! How would you describe its sound roughly?


----------



## jmills8

flinkenick said:


> Those gold wires sure look nice! How would you describe its sound roughly?


 open, wide sound stage, silky mids, sub bass increased and detailed treble.


----------



## flinkenick

jmills8 said:


> open, wide sound stage, silky mids, sub bass increased and detailed treble.


 
 Sounds good! Hope you enjoy it bud.


----------



## Kundi

flinkenick said:


> _*Audiominor lineup impressions:*_
> 
> _-'Celestine' silver/gold ($375)_
> _-'Mahogany' copper ($260)_
> ...


 
  
 I'll also say that @compicat was easy to deal with. Great communication about ordering/shipping as well as questions you might have about the cables.


----------



## seanjoe

I need a crisp and sparkling treble for my CIEM. which one should I go..? budget max $400
 my ciem is UERR
  
 thanks,
 Joe


----------



## MikePortnoy

seanjoe said:


> I need a crisp and sparkling treble for my CIEM. which one should I go..? budget max $400
> my ciem is UERR
> 
> thanks,
> Joe


 
  
 Joe, 
  
 How do you find UERR's treble?  Bright, dark or laid back?


----------



## seanjoe

mikeportnoy said:


> Joe,
> 
> How do you find UERR's treble?  Bright, dark or laid back?


 
 Hi Mike,
  
 It's a laid back treble, IMHO. but, don't get me wrong. UERR is a really good ciem. I love it more than my TG334. It's just.. sometimes I need a treble like my Hifiman Edition X..
 I only have AK240SS (fw.1.33). No amplifier.
  
 Thanks,
 Joe


----------



## MikePortnoy

seanjoe said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> It's a laid back treble, IMHO. but, don't get me wrong. UERR is a really good ciem. I love it more than my TG334. It's just.. sometimes I need a treble like my Hifiman Edition X..
> I only have AK240SS (fw.1.33). No amplifier.
> ...


 
  
 Joe,
  
 It is a bit above your budget, but you can take a look to Labkable Takumi. Or plusSound Apollonian+ which is priced at 299 USD.


----------



## flinkenick

I think a classic silver (litz) cable might suit your preference, adding a bit of sparkle, clarity and improved resolution. Something like a Toxic Silver Widow, DHC Symbiote V4, Audiominor Silver/Gold or Rhapsodio Luna. They are all around $300-$400 and similar in tone.


----------



## mrazik

A would like to recommend to have a look on Norne Vorpal and Toxic Silver Poison.


----------



## jmills8

Plussound Tri - Metal T6 with AS 2.5.


----------



## tkteo

jmills8 said:


> Plussound Tri - Metal T6 with AS 2.5.


 
 Appollonian or the shielded + version?


----------



## jmills8

tkteo said:


> Appollonian or the shielded + version?


Good question, I went only by sound. I demoed ten cables and this one sounded the best. Was told it is Copper, Silver,and Gold.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

jmills8 said:


> Good question, I went only by sound. I demoed ten cables and this one sounded the best. Was told it is Copper, Silver,and Gold.


 
  
 Based on the photo, that looks to be our Apollonian Series cable. Happy to hear you like the sound.


----------



## jmills8

plussound said:


> Based on the photo, that looks to be our Apollonian Series cable. Happy to hear you like the sound.


 Nice, I might be buying a second one for another iem I have.


----------



## flinkenick

Hello my friends and fellow enthusiasts. I am proud to present my first review in a 4 part series of high end cables, of the Rhapsodio Golden. It is very special and my current favourite. I hope you enjoy it.
  
http://headfonics.com/2016/06/the-golden-iem-cable-by-rhapsodio/


----------



## flinkenick

Part two is DHC's Symbiote V3 OCC Silver Litz 8-braid.
  
http://headfonics.com/2016/07/the-symbiote-sp-v3-by-dhc/


----------



## jmills8

flinkenick said:


> Part two is DHC's Symbiote V3 OCC Silver Litz 8-braid.
> 
> http://headfonics.com/2016/07/the-symbiote-sp-v3-by-dhc/


 Nice review, nice cable.


----------



## Zelda

for those interested, a review of 2 Labkable Pro series
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/814107/labkable-pro-series-review-thread


----------



## flinkenick

zelda said:


> for those interested, a review of 2 Labkable Pro series
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/814107/labkable-pro-series-review-thread


 
 Very well written, thanks for sharing. I enjoyed reading it. Was just wondering when you're describing the second cable, are you referring it to have more balance along the frequencies in comparison with the first? Or to a stock cable in general? If I understand correctly the copper's treble is slightly more prominent in the presentation? 
  
 You also mention the copper has better depth, yet the silver feels more holographic. Usually I would attribute more depth with a more holographic presentation, or does it feel more holographic because individual notes have better definition, and are therefore more clearly localised in space?


----------



## Zelda

flinkenick said:


> Very well written, thanks for sharing. I enjoyed reading it. Was just wondering when you're describing the second cable, are you referring it to have more balance along the frequencies in comparison with the first? Or to a stock cable in general? If I understand correctly the copper's treble is slightly more prominent in the presentation?
> 
> You also mention the copper has better depth, yet the silver feels more holographic. Usually I would attribute more depth with a more holographic presentation, or does it feel more holographic because individual notes have better definition, and are therefore more clearly localised in space?


 
 And thank you for reading it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 as for your question, yes, the Nova has some extra treble emphasis. while the Silver cable better balance is easy noticed next to the Nova, but it applies to other cables i tried, including stock ones.
  
 i was surprised myself by the depth of the copper cable over the silver (coated), as i was expecting it to be the opposite. but it's as you say, the silver one has more solid definition and stronger impact. the copper being clearer and more effortless, lets you catch the extra depth with ease.
  
 will add a couple of cable reviews soon.


----------



## flinkenick

zelda said:


> And thank you for reading it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Got it. Alright, keep em coming. Nice to see more cable reviews out there.


----------



## 19844

zelda said:


> for those interested, a review of 2 Labkable Pro series
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/814107/labkable-pro-series-review-thread




Very good review indeed


----------



## Zelda

Review of the *plusSound X8* for IEM, with the new wire:
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/plussound-x8-iem-cable/reviews/16451


----------



## Zelda

here's one of the Wagnus:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/814581/review-wagnus-cable-moonless


----------



## flinkenick

You're on a roll! I will try to read them later.


----------



## flinkenick

For anybody interested, part 3 of my high end cable series: the Wagnus Frosty Sheep.
  
http://headfonics.com/2016/07/the-frosty-sheep-iem-cable-by-wagnus/


----------



## pancakesize

Hi guys
  
 Would you have any recommendations for a slightly u-shaped iem? (budget is around USD $400). Would the Silverfi IEM2 be good? 
  
 Looking to tame the highs a _little_ bit, and make the mids a little more prominent.
  
 Thank you


----------



## flinkenick

The IEM2 could be good, but works best with brighter iems (so depending on how U-shaped your iem is). If not the 2.98 is an excellent cable to make the midrange more forward.


----------



## pancakesize

Thanks for the reply Flinkenick.
  
 It's probably not as warm as the Rhapsodio Solar. The highs extend very well, the mid-range is not recessed but not forward either - just very accurate and clean, but the bass probably has less quantity than the Solars - snappy and striking, but not too much. 
  
 The Silverfi IEM2 sounds like it would pair well. Besides the Rhapsodio 2.98, are there any other cables you would recommend?


----------



## sonickarma

My review is up for the Effect Audio Ares II+  Plus cable is posted
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/815699/effect-audio-ares-ii-plus-edition-iem-cable-reviews-impressions
  
 Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing the review it was a pleasure


----------



## sawrym

sonickarma said:


> My review is up for the Effect Audio Ares II+  Plus cable is posted
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/815699/effect-audio-ares-ii-plus-edition-iem-cable-reviews-impressions
> 
> Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I enjoyed writing the review it was a pleasure




I was very curious about this review because tested an Ares II (not +) version but I'm dissapointed... I read reviews about music gear for how they perform in technicall and musial aspects. In this case i didn't get to know much, how it would sound with different types of music or how will it pair with other earphones. Is it soft or not, quality level etc. Such a shame. This is my point of view and a hint for the future.


----------



## flinkenick

pancakesize said:


> Thanks for the reply Flinkenick.
> 
> It's probably not as warm as the Rhapsodio Solar. The highs extend very well, the mid-range is not recessed but not forward either - just very accurate and clean, but the bass probably has less quantity than the Solars - snappy and striking, but not too much.
> 
> The Silverfi IEM2 sounds like it would pair well. Besides the Rhapsodio 2.98, are there any other cables you would recommend?



Sorry, totally forgot to answer. Maybe it's easier if you mention which iem we're talking about? The Audiominor Mahogany is also a nice warm/musical copper btw.


----------



## pancakesize

Sorry, wanted to mention the IEM but not sure if I was allowed to given that the company is banned from Headfi. But its the current flagship of John Moultan's former company. 
  
 I went ahead with the Audiominor Celestine after reading your reviews. Bogac was an absolute pleasure to converse with and he recommended the Celestine for a more balanced sound, and the copper/silver lovechild for a more v-shaped sound signature.
  
 He didn't recommend the Mahogany, which I was also keen on, because he said that things might get abit too intense in the mids. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## DeeTeeSe7en

Leonidas with FitEar MH335DW! Audio bliss.


----------



## flinkenick

pancakesize said:


> Sorry, wanted to mention the IEM but not sure if I was allowed to given that the company is banned from Headfi. But its the current flagship of John Moultan's former company.
> 
> I went ahead with the Audiominor Celestine after reading your reviews. Bogac was an absolute pleasure to converse with and he recommended the Celestine for a more balanced sound, and the copper/silver lovechild for a more v-shaped sound signature.
> 
> ...


 
 Ah yes the 10, info is scarce on it but I've heard it is pretty good. I don't think its forbidden to mention its name and give brief descriptions etc. I had the 8.A a while back, and commented on it and wrote comparisons in reviews etc. But of course the subject should be handled with caution. Bogac is an awesome guy, please feel free to share any impressions in the future!
  
  


deeteese7en said:


> Leonidas with FitEar MH335DW! Audio bliss.


 
 Nice pic!


----------



## pancakesize

Yes, information is pretty scarce indeed. It does sound very good. And you're right, care should be exercised 
  
 Will provide some impressions once I've received the cable and given it some burn-in time.


----------



## weongtan

I get my silver and gold audio minor cable used it look very good but I need to change mmcx to ciem. My friend will do for me and I can listen.


----------



## flinkenick

weongtan said:


> I get my silver and gold audio minor cable used it look very good but I need to change mmcx to ciem. My friend will do for me and I can listen.



It's a nice cable, very well built. I think it is easy to pair.


----------



## spw1880

Hi all cable lovers,

I am a novice headfi hobbyist..i started my headfi joirney only 6months ago. So please forgive my lack of sophisticated taste in music or wordsbthat describe the sound quality.

My rhapsodio golden silver copper alloy cable has arrived 3 days ago and i have been enjoying it from day one. I gave my word to sammy of rhapsodio that i will write an honest impression of his cable.

My source is only my iphone 6s and galaxy s6. Most files are cd rip..or aac itunes. If i am not wrong it is 16bit 44.1khz at most...but i intend to move up to ak300 or onkyo dpx1(any recommendations welcome)

My iem is jvc ha fx1200 with mmcx connector. My amplifier is oppo ha2. And vorzuge pure II+.

My music pref is mainly vocal edm.
Pop, modern rock, acoustics covers, jazz and movie ochestra soundtracks.

My brief experience experience with cables before the golden has only been with whiplash copper cable. And yes they do make a difference in the sonic deliverance of our respective iems.

This impression is comparing with stock cable, Using my iphone 6s and vorzuge pure amp.

Bass
Golden brings a deeper layer of sub bass out to the open. Overall 10% improvement in bass region. There giving a sense of deeper sound stage. Jvc fx1200 already has incredible bass performance as is.. with great impact and slam. Golden does not increase impact in bass..but bass slightly better roundness and clarity and reaches deeper.

Midrange
Male and female vocals gain a significant bump in richness and thickness of tone. 20% approx more reverb and air in vocals. All the breaths when singer changes speed of tune is better rendered, throat movements can be heard and even felt when the singer strains to compresses throat muscles to let loose a high note. Sonic delivery Instruments within the midrange also have very thick tone..lots of air..gives me goosebumps..Midrange is the truly the speciality of the golden. Many notes within midrange were heard with stock cable..but with the golden, they are FELT.

Treble 
Treble tone is largely unchanged. But golden brings better control than stock cable. Less harsh. Smoother and more resolved. Maybe just more comfy to listen to for longer periods of time. 5% improvement.

Various Songs from artists. Boyce avenue, flamenco guitar masters, alesso, kygo, cash2, ariana grande, celine dion, tyler ward

Build quality
Those thick gold wires are super cool. Very attention grabbing when in public. However build quality of the splitters and jack, especially the casing could be better. Just a few rough finishes. 

Pics coming soon.


----------



## spw1880

[/IMG]











Absolutely gorgeous thick gold wires.
The black and gold theme with connector and splitter isbalso very appealing.

I would like to say the sammy provided me top notch customer service. Very polite and responsive. From date of purchase only took 10 days to reach me. Thats HK to indonesia.

Thanks sammy for a great product..thanks nic for a superb recommendation.


----------



## flinkenick

Great write up man, thanks for sharing!


----------



## jmills8

Astell & Kern Crystal Cable with Aurisonics 2.5


----------



## Majid Mute

hi Friends plz help me
i have a shure se846 and fiio x7 which one best upgarde cable in range 500$ us???
plussound x8 silver plated copper good sound with se846???
my music edm and vocal trance.


----------



## Kerouac

jmills8 said:


> Astell & Kern Crystal Cable with Aurisonics 2.5


 
  
 That's a nice looking cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can you share some information on price / sound description?


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> That's a nice looking cable :rolleyes:
> 
> Can you share some information on price / sound description?


 Sound stage is very wide, increase in seperation, increase of clean bass impact.


----------



## spw1880

I would love to try mr bogac's audiominor celestine iem cable. I can tell from the pics that the craftsmanship is top class. But since i have to save up some cash for family matters i cannot go ahead to buy for now. Any one have has experience with celestine please share impressions and pics.

Thank you


----------



## flinkenick

majid mute said:


> hi Friends plz help me
> i have a shure se846 and fiio x7 which one best upgarde cable in range 500$ us???
> plussound x8 silver plated copper good sound with se846???
> my music edm and vocal trance.


 
 What kind of characteristics do you find important when listening to EDM? I also listen to EDM, but I just prioritise definition, separation, and treble sparkle. In that case I would just recommend any silver cable in the $300 - $400 region, something like Audiominor's Celestine, Rhapsodio Silver Litz or Luna (better resolution vs. slightly warmer and emotional sound), Toxic Silver Widow, etc.


----------



## jmills8

majid mute said:


> hi Friends plz help me
> i have a shure se846 and fiio x7 which one best upgarde cable in range 500$ us???
> plussound x8 silver plated copper good sound with se846???
> my music edm and vocal trance.


Easy, the Astell & Kern Crystal Cable not only is it all around clean sounding, up front music presentation detailed treble and thick mids but it will improve the sub bass on your 846.Another great cable is by YY Pro Audios Tucana IEM Cable. It will provide hard and thick impactful bass, detailed mids and treble. Soft cable easy to use on the go. I do like that Plussound cable aswell but the two I mentioned will give you a stronger bass.


----------



## twister6

To keep all the premium replacement cable discussions in one thread, I would like to add a link to my recently posted Plussound X8 and Apollonian+ cable reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/products/plussound-x8-iem-cable/reviews/16582


----------



## flinkenick

Hi Alex glad to see you finally made it here! Excellent write up, quite an introduction. And like I've said many times before, good job fighting on the foreground for cable enthusiasts in all your reviews.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

flinkenick said:


> What kind of characteristics do you find important when listening to EDM? I also listen to EDM, but I just prioritise definition, separation, and treble sparkle. In that case I would just recommend any silver cable in the $300 - $400 region, something like Audiominor's Celestine, Rhapsodio Silver Litz or Luna (better resolution vs. slightly warmer and emotional sound), Toxic Silver Widow, etc.




Give Norne Audio's Therium Silver a try, incredible cable, Trevor's an artist and they are reasonably priced versus the competition.


----------



## flinkenick

wildcatsare1 said:


> Give Norne Audio's Therium Silver a try, incredible cable, Trevor's an artist and they are reasonably priced versus the competition.


 
 Have indeed heard good things about it, was a popular cable on the Empire thread to pair with Zeus I believe!


----------



## Sound Eq

nice nice thread, so I have the zeus R, and I am in looks for a great cable that focuses on a wide sound stage and great bass and full layered vocals
  
 I do not care about adding more highs as the zeus r has just about exactly the highs I need
  
 any recommendations


----------



## flinkenick

Generally speaking hybrid cables tend to have a wider stage and spacious sound, if that is the priority. The last one I tried was the Audiominor Hybrid, it was pretty good and has a neutral sound. For great bass I tend to let @jmills8 do the recommendations, I think he can help you better than I can in that department.


----------



## twister6

sound eq said:


> nice nice thread, so I have the zeus R, and I am in looks for a great cable that focuses on a wide sound stage and great bass and full layered vocals
> 
> I do not care about adding more highs as the zeus r has just about exactly the highs I need
> 
> any recommendations


 
  
 After I switched to TWau (Whiplash gold plated silver cable) with Zeus-R, everything else pales in comparison.  The bass comes alive in Z-R and the sound becomes more balanced in comparison to slightly mid-forward signature with a stock BTG Starlight SPC.


----------



## Cinder

Anyone know where to find a MMCX cable that has right-angled MMCX connections? I am looking for some to go with a new product I'm reviewing.
  
Example product
  
 I checked a couple sites already, and I've only found straight-ended cables.


----------



## jmills8

YY Pro Audio Tucana IEM Cable. Pure Copper cable that is able to give it all. Deep thick quality bass, clear articulate mids that are not recessed nor upfront that puts you in the first row,and detailed extended treble. All this plus a wide sound stage.


----------



## Blommen

jmills8 said:


> YY Pro Audio Tucana IEM Cable. Pure Copper cable that is able to give it all. Deep thick quality bass, clear articulate mids that are not recessed nor upfront that puts you in the first row,and detailed extended treble. All this plus a wide sound stage.




Sounds like my kind of cable, how is it with the asg 2.5 and how does it compare to your other cables?


----------



## jmills8

blommen said:


> Sounds like my kind of cable, how is it with the asg 2.5 and how does it compare to your other cables?






The sound I described was with the 2.5. I cannot listen to the 2.5 with its stock cable, especially after listening to this.


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> The sound I described was with the 2.5. I cannot listen to the 2.5 with its stock cable, especially after listening to this.


 
 looks solid and your description is really intriguing me


----------



## Dan E

Hi everyone,

Instead of reviewing (for the moment at least), I am searching for your wise advice. I have the fitear 335 studio upgraded, paired with the cowon plenue S. Hence, I am looking for a balance cable. It would be my first one, so I have totally no experience with cables and am a bit lost where to start. I Shirley wouldn't dare to order a random cable online without the necessary details about how to pick a cable.

First of all, my music style is heavily instrument-based. I mostly listen to classic rock (pink Floyd etc), metal, but as well classical music. For that reason I would love to have a very clear and wide sound stage, a well separated sound to clearly identify instruments in complex interplay. Since the fitear is a base monster, I would not mind cutting the overwhelming base a bit back and rather get a finer sound in the middle and treble.

While browsing online I found cables from 200-1500 USD and the first question is of course which range makes sense. How much better can a 1500 USD cable be compared to a, let's say, 700 USD one, of course irrespective of the materials used (found some cables with platinum and crystals for horrendous prices). 
Second, which materials or mixes would you suggest for my preferences in music and what is, eg, on a sound level the difference between a thin, finely woven silver cable and a monster fat quadruple helix boundle?

Some of the questions may be stupid but I am really a dummy in this field, so thanks a lot for your answers and advices, I highly appreciate it!!

Best regards,
Dan


----------



## Dan E

I don't want to disturb this small war here but I smelled be happy if someone could help me with my questions from 1-2 days ago


----------



## flinkenick

dan e said:


> I don't want to disturb this small war here but I smelled be happy if someone could help me with my questions from 1-2 days ago


 
 Hi Dan, I'll get back to you in a bit on this later on as it requires a long reply!


----------



## Dan E

flinkenick said:


> Hi Dan, I'll get back to you in a bit on this later on as it requires a long reply!




Than you very much, I appreciate it a lot


----------



## flinkenick

dan e said:


> Than you very much, I appreciate it a lot


 
 PM'ed.


----------



## jmills8

dan e said:


> Than you very much, I appreciate it a lot


 PMd


----------



## flinkenick

For anybody interested in some expensive cables, I have put my Rhapsodio Wizard OCC 8-braid and DHC Silver Litz 8-braid up for sale at a little over half price since I need to fund some new purchases (as usual).
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/818002/rhapsodio-wizard-occ-copper-8-braid-new-1000-regular-2-pin-and-3-5-trs-jack
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/817993/dhc-silver-litz-8-braid-new-800-2-pin-with-regular-or-balanced-3-5-2-5-jack-possible


----------



## Cinder

flinkenick said:


> For anybody interested in some expensive cables, I have put my Rhapsodio Wizard OCC 8-braid and DHC Silver Litz 8-braid up for sale at a little over half price since I need to fund some new purchases (as usual).
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/818002/rhapsodio-wizard-occ-copper-8-braid-new-1000-regular-2-pin-and-3-5-trs-jack
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/817993/dhc-silver-litz-8-braid-new-800-2-pin-with-regular-or-balanced-3-5-2-5-jack-possible


 
  
 He wasn't joking when he said expensive cables :/


----------



## flinkenick

Not as expensive as this one! 
  
 http://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r2-cable/


----------



## justrest

Does anyone have any experiences about Whiplash TWcu copper 8 braid?


----------



## justrest

@flinkenick By the way thank you for this great thread.


----------



## twister6

justrest said:


> Does anyone have any experiences about Whiplash TWcu copper 8 braid?


 
  

  
 Great cable, just a bit on a thicker and heavier side which you should expect from 8 copper conductors.  The only thing I would recommend is getting it with a straight instead of OM-angled 2pin connector - it will give you more clearance if you have larger ears.  If you are interested how it sounds, there is no fixed formula since the same cable will pair up differently with various iems/ciems and sources.  Also, a good idea to get is 2.5mm trrs balanced terminated with 3.5mm trs adapter.  This way you will be covered for both HO ports.


----------



## arniem

Hey guys, great information in this thread!  I have a set of JH Laylas and am looking for some replacement 2.5 mm balanced cables.  I mostly listen to rock and can go up to around $1000 or so, any recommendations to pair with those IEMs? Thanks.


----------



## flinkenick

arniem said:


> Hey guys, great information in this thread!  I have a set of JH Laylas and am looking for some replacement 2.5 mm balanced cables.  I mostly listen to rock and can go up to around $1000 or so, any recommendations to pair with those IEMs? Thanks.


 
 That's a nice budget man. What kind of signature are you looking for? For rock I personally like the Rhapsodio 2.98 8-braid silver/gold, it's about $575. Unless you're looking for a really clear and airy sound. The 2.98 is more about bass, full sound and resolving (lower) mids.


----------



## arniem

flinkenick said:


> That's a nice budget man. What kind of signature are you looking for? For rock I personally like the Rhapsodio 2.98 8-braid silver/gold, it's about $575. Unless you're looking for a really clear and airy sound. The 2.98 is more about bass, full sound and resolving (lower) mids.


 
  
 Thanks Nick, actually I tend to turn the bass down a bit, so I think I'd be more interested in the clear and airy sound.  What would your recommend to go with the Laylas?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## flinkenick

Well to be honest I only very briefly heard the Layla, so I can't say a whole lot about it. But at the moment I really like the Labkable Samurai III. It has a clean sound with a very nice lift in the upper mids/lower treble, pairs excellently with slightly midforward iems. Bit pricey though at $875..


----------



## Eroica4th

Need help please.

Can't make up my mind between these three cables 

Prime Donna from Beat Audio.
X8 trie metal from Plus sound audio.
Heracles from EffectAudio.

I'm looking for good quality high end cable that provide neutral sound. 

Thanks


----------



## sawrym

eroica4th said:


> Need help please.
> 
> Can't make up my mind between these three cables
> 
> ...


 
 Didn't think about Leonidas? A lot of great things about it i have read:]


----------



## flinkenick

Leonidas is a very nice cable with a neutral/uncolored sound, and a very nice sub-bass punch. It is also built very nicely, except for that heavy splitter which makes absolutely no sense!? 
  
 At the moment I also really like the Labkable Samurai III, it is relatively neutral with a touch of extra sparkle in the upper midrange. It works especially well for slightly midcentric iems.
  
 I haven't heard those other ones.


----------



## proedros

Hey guys , i need to have my Whiplash Hybrid V3 cable reterminated for zx2-trrs use
  
 can you suggest *some good cable makers , preferably EU/UK-based that i can email and ask them about it ?*

 thanx in advance for any help/feedback


----------



## arniem

flinkenick said:


> Well to be honest I only very briefly heard the Layla, so I can't say a whole lot about it. But at the moment I really like the Labkable Samurai III. It has a clean sound with a very nice lift in the upper mids/lower treble, pairs excellently with slightly midforward iems. Bit pricey though at $875..


 
  
 Thanks Nick!  I looked at the Labkables and (gulp!) decided to splurge and get the Pandoras.  They arrived today, and first impressions are oh my, these do give nice clean, crisp separation.


----------



## flinkenick

arniem said:


> Thanks Nick!  I looked at the Labkables and (gulp!) decided to splurge and get the Pandoras.  They arrived today, and first impressions are oh my, these do give nice clean, crisp separation.


 
 Wow man, you went all out. That is a truly spectacular cable, in looks and sound. Those multicolored 10 braids, what a sight.. I only heard it briefly at Canjam, slightly warm but highly resolving. 
  
 Share a pic and some impressions later on man!


----------



## Pingupenguins

Nice work! Seems like you're quite the cable connoisseur.


----------



## Tony1110

proedros said:


> Hey guys , i need to have my Whiplash Hybrid V3 cable reterminated for zx2-trrs use
> 
> can you suggest *some good cable makers , preferably EU/UK-based that i can email and ask them about it ?*
> 
> ...




I'm contemplating sending mine to Norne and having it converted to 2.5 balanced. Then I'll probably buy an adapter and be done with all this messing around with cables.


----------



## damobananna

Hi I am new to cables but not so new to iems my first real set was the sm3 back when they were the flagship . am looking at an SPC litz from ALO or silver from Ted Alle nto go with the umpro 50 I already heard the spc alo and it was amazing!! do you think a pure silver cable would sound even better ? i am looking at bringing the sound together more and more bass wouldnt hurt the umpro 50 already has the best treble i have ever heard thanks


----------



## flinkenick

Rhapsodio is selling off their last Silver Litz and 2.98 cables at a discount:
  
https://www.facebook.com/rhapsodiohk/?fref=ts
  
_Friends of Rhapsodio, we have some very, very special offers for cable enthusiasts. We are clearing our old stock, and will be selling our last 20 RSD Silver Litz cables, a clean sounding and highly resolving cable:
 -$220 for the 4 braid (normally $350), and $440 for the 8-braid (normally $650)._

_But there’s more, the last 30 legendary 2.98 cables, that combine the resolution of a silver cable with the warmth of a copper, will also be sold at a discount:
 -$270 for the 4-braid (normally $380), and $400 for the 8-braid (normally $550)._

 _These prices are limited to the remaining stock._


----------



## flinkenick

Review of the Labkable Samurai III on THL:
  
http://theheadphonelist.com/the-labkable-samurai-iii/


----------



## damobananna

so i have been scouting through the cables threads in order to get an answer, what a disgrace.


----------



## jmills8

damobananna said:


> so i have been scouting through the cables threads in order to get an answer, what a disgrace.


 Here, get a good quality Copper/Silver cable.


----------



## damobananna

its to late i already went for pure copper but thanks anyway


----------



## jmills8

damobananna said:


> its to late i already went for pure copper but thanks anyway


I like that aswell but depends on the iem I will be using and there are so many ways in making a Copper cable.


----------



## damobananna

BTW How ever it sounds i am pretty sure this cable from unknown maker  will slap the Westone epic in the face, they look nice and all but pffft i think the epics sound is severely lacking (mine are for sale if you are looking please disregard).
 I know this is a high end thread but i scored these for 110 usd the guy said they are privatly built but use dhc wires they are for ump50 the copper is assured to be type 2 litz occ copper and i believe that is all i need, anything more than 200 a cable is getting excessive not saying as a fact its just what i think


----------



## teds headfood

that looks like one of my new T2 occ copper cables. no they are not DHC WIRE but peter did recommend my new wire manufacturer as my old one (hakugei metals) were complete aholes to deal with.


----------



## damobananna

sweet , pair well with umpro 50's or you think i should have gone with silver like everyone else?


----------



## mdiogofs

flinkenick said:


> *Rhapsodio RSD Silver Litz 8-braid ($600)*
> 
> Rhapsodio’s Silver Litz cable has a nice bass texture, but colder mid-bass presentation along with a black background. This creates a very clean stage, with a slight recess in the lower midrange. The upper treble is extended, and the Sivler Litz can be considered a high resolution cable. The treble has good sparkle, and overall the cable has a slight V-shape. This shares some similarities with the Toxic Silver Widow; but the Silver Litz has higher resolution, while simultaneously having a blacker and colder atmosphere, while the Silver Widow has a closer to neutral background. The Silver Litz is an excellent cable to pair with warm iems, or those seeking better definition.
> 
> _classification: winter_


 
  
 Hey! Is this the same cable? http://www.rhapsodiostore.com/products/rsd-silver
  
 In the website pic there is a MMCX connector but in you pic it is 2 pin... 
  
 I would'n mind getting a slightly thinner sound of my S-EM9, since it is a warm IEM...What do you think? Do you think they will match good? Looking for a cable and this is a great price I think with the discount...There is also the Luna MK2, what do you think? But I guess I don't want to spend that much...


----------



## flinkenick

mdiogofs said:


> Hey! Is this the same cable? http://www.rhapsodiostore.com/products/rsd-silver
> 
> In the website pic there is a MMCX connector but in you pic it is 2 pin...
> 
> I would'n mind getting a slightly thinner sound of my S-EM9, since it is a warm IEM...What do you think? Do you think they will match good? Looking for a cable and this is a great price I think with the discount...There is also the Luna MK2, what do you think? But I guess I don't want to spend that much...


 

  
 Well here is a mmcx version with the S-EM9 hehe.
  
 You can order whichever plug or connector you like. I had it first in mmcx for the S-EM9, but then i got the 2-pin version and had the cable changed to 2-pin. 
  
 TBH, I find the S-EM9 as it is already a bit thin. It has a somewhat distant midrange so it's one of the leanest sounding of all my iems. That being said, the RSD Silver Litz will indeed make it thinner by pushing back the lower midrange. It has a 72 * 0.06 Litz wire construction, and is one of the cleanest and highest resolving Silver Litz cables I've heard. The downside however was that it is also somewhat cold and it has some microphonics. I absolutely loved the combination for electronic music, but it lacked some emotion for band-based music. They're selling the last ones at discount now btw.


----------



## jmills8

ALO COPPER/SILVER 8 Braid.


----------



## Dan E

Hello everyone,
  
 After many months of intensive testing I cut down my candidates to 4-5 cables and would be happy about further help/thoughts/impressions from your side. I use the Plenue S, paired with the FitEar 335 SR.
  
 My favorites so far are:
  
 Rhapsodio copper wizard
 YY Pro Neptune
 YY Pro Pluto
 Whiplash TWag V3 T-series (12 connectors)
 Plussound X8 gold plated copper
  
  
 I am looking for a cable with maximum sound stage. Since I am listening to any kind of music (from classic to metal and electro) I found that most of the metal mixes (like the X8 Trimetal) reduce the sound stage too much or amplify stages, which is not universally favorable for me. Furthermore, I am looking for a crystal clear sound on all stages, such that instrumentals sound awesome. But for fast metal, the sound should be well separated and full on all stages.
  
 My request looks like the need for a miracle cable :/ I am not even sure if anything like this exists. If you have thoughts about my choice or can recomment further high-end wonder cables (price doesn't matter) please let me know 
  
 One more genreal question: since OCC silver has the highest conductivity of all metals used in building cables, is it right to say that a super pure, many braided OCC silver should physically have the clearest sound and widest soundstage, since it is the best conductor available?
  
 Best regards and many many thanks,
 Dan


----------



## PLUSSOUND

dan e said:


>


 

 Thanks for considering our X8 cable as one of your top pick!
 Yes, there is a wire that will offer what you are looking for. We've sent a PM with more info.


----------



## Rei87

dan e said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> After many months of intensive testing I cut down my candidates to 4-5 cables and would be happy about further help/thoughts/impressions from your side. I use the Plenue S, paired with the FitEar 335 SR.
> 
> ...


 



 hi
 If you're looking for the ultimate soundstage (width), I would highly recommend the plussound X8GPS. It has the widest soundstage of ANY cables that I've heard to date. The problem however, is that it is artificially wide, and can make the presentation a little, unrealistic. Here's a pic of my own plussound X8 GPS. However, because I've opted to use mundorf supreme silver gold solder, and changed the braid to a lose square braid, the sound may differ slightly from the standard X8 from plussound itself. (Yes, the solder and braid use does affect the sound in subtle but audible ways). 



 However, if you can consider a cable with a wide yet realistic soundstage, yet packs a very good 3D imaging and is very transparent on the details while being slightly on the warm side, I will suggest the PWaudio 1960 cable in its 4 wire form (its a coaxial design, so a 4 wire would be equivalent to the standard 8 wire). I've heard the entire lineup from effect audio, Toxic, Whiplash and plusssound, and nothing comes close to that. WIthin DHC, I suspect that the PRION will be of a similar caliber, prehaps even bettering it, based on what I heard from the PRION wire in an inter-connect form. However, the PRION only comes in headphone form (sorry, no IEM 2-pin form), and while mindblowingly good, is prohibitively expensive.


----------



## Dan E

Hello,
  
 thanks for suggestions and impressions! I tested the GPS X8 as well and found it inferior to a clean 8 braid OCC silver cable at first (so I didn't include it in my list), since it took away the physical punchiness of the sound. I love the feeling of strings and drums picking my eardrum. This analyticity got lost with softening the treble with the gold plating. However, on the second try I started to like the cable and am thinking about its purchase.
  
 For how long have you been using the cable? Do you get tired or started to dislike its sound signature at some point or is it also after longer use a top choice?
  
  
 What I like about the copper wizard is that its soundstage is even wider in my mind. Its extremely natural, so any piece of music sounds like people sit around you and play. That is indeed gorgeous - and I think not too many cable makers offer an 8-braid balanced OCC copper cable.
  
 As for PWaudio.. I am living in HK and can test all the brands easily, so that is going massively for me. However, since I couldn't find PWaudio anywhere I may not dare to risk an online purchase over an awesome cable that I tested intensively myself. The prion sounds amazing, but as you said it is not available for IEMS :/
  
 The struggle is still real, but I am glad to see comments and opinions on the current selection 
  
 Best,
 Dan


----------



## flinkenick

The Rhapsodio Copper Wizard is warm from its mid-bass and slightly dark overall, with a natural tonality, though not overly sparkly in the upper midrange. However, it is to date still the highest resolving cable I heard and that alone makes it special for me. This counts specifically for the 8-braid, the 4-braid misses a bit of its magic. I think partially because the sleeving only goes until the splitter, but the difference was noticeable. To be honest, I don't remember its soundstage being wider than normal, but soundstage for cables is not a priority for me. The few times soundstages appeared more spacious was with hybrid designs, though coming at the cost of the bass presentation. But each cable always seems to have his own up and downsides, including the very nice but expensive ones over a $1000.. I've yet to come across the one that can do it all.


----------



## mdiogofs

I imagine the profit of makers on those 1000$ copper cables...And many of them come from China, the country where labour work (and materials) is very cheap...They must go to the end of the Earth to get the most rare materials available and magical "stuff" to put on a...4 feet copper wire. It's insane. And silver cables are almost the same, although the material is a bit more expensive. Keep buying this...Audiophiles buy list: a 1000-1500$ IEM (with cable) and a...1000$ cable. In my head, a 25% of the IEM price for a proved good cable could be acceptable, could be...Above that let's just call it cable makers taking advantage of audiophiles "craziness", with greed. Diminishing returns kicking with the strongest force there is. This is just my 2 cents.
  
 Anyway, there's an 8 braid copper for less than 200$ : http://www.head-fi.org/products/null-audio-vitesse-copper-cable/reviews/13242 and it's stated very good material and performance. From 200$ to 1000$...That cable must give sound orgasms every second


----------



## Rei87

dan e said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> For how long have you been using the cable? Do you get tired or started to dislike its sound signature at some point or is it also after longer use a top choice?
> ...


 

 I've been on this cable for close to a year now, and I will agree that it is rather analytical and thin, without the warm body that comes with a copper cable. It is not, as you surmised, a punchy cable. Rather, it just presents information to your ears with its transparency. 
 That said, I do not have a single 'top cable'. Personally, I value transparency as my foremost criteria, signature be damned, as I lsiten more to my gear than my music, and hence I dont really care how the song sounds like, as long as I can hear every bit of detail in my song. So within my lineup, I seek to optimize the source performance, and everything else is just there to provide some unique characteristic which I use to mix and match depending on the song. Case in point, I use my GPS when I wish to stretch the soundstage as far as it can go, and pull the instruments as far away from each other as possible. For another song, I may use a lusher cable if the song to balance off a trebly song and so on. To put it simply; I dont have a 'favourite cable' as all my cables are of equal value to me. The moment one cable is surpassed by another in that same aspect; I usually sell it off and move on. I see my cables as a tool, rather than a source of enjoyment heh. 
  
 Quote:


mdiogofs said:


> I imagine the profit of makers on those 1000$ copper cables...And many of them come from China, the country where labour work (and materials) is very cheap...They must go to the end of the Earth to get the most rare materials available and magical "stuff" to put on a...4 feet copper wire. It's insane. And silver cables are almost the same, although the material is a bit more expensive. Keep buying this...Audiophiles buy list: a 1000-1500$ IEM (with cable) and a...1000$ cable. In my head, a 25% of the IEM price for a proved good cable could be acceptable, could be...Above that let's just call it cable makers taking advantage of audiophiles "craziness", with greed. Diminishing returns kicking with the strongest force there is. This is just my 2 cents.
> 
> Anyway, there's an 8 braid copper for less than 200$ : http://www.head-fi.org/products/null-audio-vitesse-copper-cable/reviews/13242 and it's stated very good material and performance. From 200$ to 1000$...That cable must give sound orgasms every second


 


 Truth be told, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the audiophile industry is getting a little over the top with the crazy prices. But, on the other hand I am also privvy to some of the cost prices that these cable manufacturers purchase their cables at, before rebranding it under their name within their lineup. I can say that, some of their cables are not cheap at all, and when you factor in their own individual profit + retailer profit, you can see why those cables comes to be priced the way they are. Heck, some of my cables which were purchased directly from the manufacturersthemselves as a raw wire already crossed the 400 mark (for just 5m), and I've yet to include the cost of any braiding, soldering, and parts. 




 On another note, cable 'performance' is usually relative to the price. I used to be wowed by sub-200 cables when I first entered the game, now, going back to my very first upgrade cable, I wish I could have that 200 back to defray the costs of some of my 1.4k cables


----------



## Dan E

Hello again,


Did anyone try multiple different gold plated OCC silver cables and can tell me a bit about the differences and which ones are the best available ones? I am specifically referring to how the plusssound GPS X8 compares to the effect audio Mars and the whiplash Twau, but if there are more 8 braid GPS cables on the market that are astonishing I would be happy to hear your impressions about them as well.

Best,
Dan


----------



## flinkenick

mdiogofs said:


> I imagine the profit of makers on those 1000$ copper cables...And many of them come from China, the country where labour work (and materials) is very cheap...They must go to the end of the Earth to get the most rare materials available and magical "stuff" to put on a...4 feet copper wire. It's insane. And silver cables are almost the same, although the material is a bit more expensive. Keep buying this...Audiophiles buy list: a 1000-1500$ IEM (with cable) and a...1000$ cable. In my head, a 25% of the IEM price for a proved good cable could be acceptable, could be...Above that let's just call it cable makers taking advantage of audiophiles "craziness", with greed. Diminishing returns kicking with the strongest force there is. This is just my 2 cents.
> 
> Anyway, there's an 8 braid copper for less than 200$ : http://www.head-fi.org/products/null-audio-vitesse-copper-cable/reviews/13242 and it's stated very good material and performance. From 200$ to 1000$...That cable must give sound orgasms every second


 
 It's understandable to think an expensive cable is hard to justify against a cheaper one using the same material. But whether its made of copper or silver will have the least effect on its performance compared to other variables. It's like saying why pay $2000 for a Spiral Ear 5-way Ultimate, when you can get a 5 BA iem from China for $400. Just because they share important features doesn't mean they'll sound even close.. The purity of the wire, the thickness and number of wires in a Litz construction, or the shielding, will have a greater effect and define the price. I've had both the copper and silver Null Audio Vitesse wires in the past. I think it's more of a waste of money to pay for something inferior that gives a marginal upgrade, than to pay two times more for something that can have more of a transformational effect. But that's me - to each their own. I've learned through trial and error what budget cables can and can't offer, and that pricing is very similar as iems. There is an increase in performance, and a decrease in price to performance ratio. 
  
 When it comes to pricing, I have no doubt there are greater margins on a $1000 cable than a $100 one. But the manufacturer still has to develop a cable that will have a lower turnover compared to cheap ones, and pay for a staff and expensive rent for one or multiple locations. It doesn't automatically have to mean everybody is out there to rip people off. If that was the case, the market couldn't sustain itself.


----------



## warrior1975

All valid points that flinkenick makes. With cables, I recommend being more cautious. If at all possible try before you buy. I own a couple of high end cables, Whiplash 8 strand modular, which is an excellent system. You can change connectors easily, mmcx, 2 pin, balanced, se, etc. Very versatile. I also own Tralucent uBer Too cable, which is a great cable as well. 

I've owned some mid-fi cables, and one or two other high ends. I believe I hear a difference between them, but to me, it wasn't a night and day difference. Definite improvements, whether it's placebo or not, not sure... But if you think you hear it, you do. 

Just temper expectations when purchasing cables. I'd also say that make sure you have your idea IEMS/headphones before going crazy with cables.


----------



## ironpeg

My favorite cable so far is Effect Audio Heracles. It's so good that I have to order the 2nd one for my 2pin ciem.
 I mainly use my first one with JH Roxanne.


----------



## flinkenick

ironpeg said:


> My favorite cable so far is Effect Audio Heracles. It's so good that I have to order the 2nd one for my 2pin ciem.
> I mainly use my first one with JH Roxanne.


 
 Nice man, what kind of sound does it have?
  
 You know, you can also get adapters so you can use the cable on both iems. Rhapsodio can make them on order. Then you can spend that $1400 or whatever on a totally different cable  Oh wait, never mind, JH has that funky 4-pin system to regulate the bass etc.
  
 ps. See that your 2-pin iem is Deca? I'm posting a review of it within a few days.


----------



## Dan E

Hello everyone,
 Since I tried more than 100 cables within the last 6 months on the search for the ultimate cable I would like to share my experiences and give short descriptions about some of the cables that impressed me in one way or another. I hope this is helpful for some of you, since most of the cables I reviewed below are expensive flagships. All the impressions posted here are merely from my memory, so it may be possible that they are not 100% precise. If there is any cable you are interested in and that I haven’t listed here let me know – I may have tried but just forgotten about it.
 I tested all the cables using the same audio equipment, namely the Cowon Plenue S paired with the FitEar 335 SR upgraded.
  
 Rhapsodio Copper Wizard:
 One of my first cables to try – a massive and heavy cable. 8 braided OCC copper in a black sleeve (the first edition of the copper wizard was a stiff and hard sleeve while they upgraded it now to a soft one). The cable has one of the clearest signatures I’ve tried so far. A very natural sounding cable with a V-shape signature, shifted towards the bass (like a Nike-logo V). The cable has an impressive and full bodied bass while the upper bass region overlaps with the lower mid range. This causes the lower mids to be slightly crushed in a sense that the bass is overwhelming it. The upper mid range and treble are clear and detailed. The cable is very warm, so if you are looking for a sparkling crisp and analytic sound this is not the way to go. If you are looking for a natural and real sounding cable I highly recommend it. You can imagine this cable as a heavy glass of red wine. It lacks of freshness and dynamics but has this heavy dominant character that makes it a special experience. If you like to listen to heavy, epic movie soundtracks or classical pieces that let you shiver in awe, this is the cable that would do it best.
 Since the copper wizard is very complex cable to review I would like to give a very short pro-cons list to underline my impressions.
 Pros: Extreme detail, improves your sound a lot if you want more control and body for the bass.
 Cons: Sound of the balanced version does not differ from the normal (unbalanced) version. Sound stage above average but not comparable to other sound stage monsters (see below).
  
 Effect Audio Mars:
 A gold plated OCC silver cable from Singapore. I tried the 4 braid version, since I learned that the 8 braid one was a limited edition to 20 pieces (for proud 2600 USD per piece) and is already sold out. The cable looks pretty – as most of the Effect audio cables they are almost a jewellery accessoire. Concerning the sound I could unfortunately not become friends with the Mars. I found the sound to be unclean in mid and treble and the cable could not give the wide and detailed stage that e.g. a Plussound X8 GPS or Whiplash TWau give (to compare with other gold plated silver options on the market). As to be expected from silver or silver plated cables, the bass was not too strong. However, unlike other cables with a similar alloy the bass did not have the controlled punchiness that makes the plating desirable compared to a pure silver cable. Like other cables with similar choice of materials, the mid and treble was sparkling and analytic but had this steady dragging and overlapping in sound that gave me a fuzzy impression. In total, I would have loved to try the 8 braid cable as well to establish a fairer comparison (since the other cables were mostly 8 braid cables, that did not have the harsh analyticity the Mars presents).
  
 Labkable Pandora:
 This cable is about closest to being jewellery. An 8 braid gold plated silver-silver-copper mix with futures like Swarovski crystals at the Y splitter for maximum beauty a cable could have. A thickly braided, soft cable that feels comfy around your ear and neck despite its massive appearance.
 This was the first flagship I tried and it gave me quite special feelings. At first I was stunned because of the cable’s exciting tonality. I didn’t know what it was (due to lack of my experience with cables back then), but it gave me a special “wow!”-effect compared to “regular” sounding cables. The reason is the cable’s extreme dynamics due to its mix in materials. What I found over time is that the cable itself does a lot right. It gives the bass a clean separation and punch that you would expect from a copper cable. The stage in the mids is wide and detailed and the treble is crisp but soft, like you would expect it from a gold plated silver cable. The strong analyticity in the treble is damped due to the gold part and it sounds quite warm because of the copper. This is also what brings me to the cons of the cable. It tries and does so much at the same time but can’t fully unleash its potential. The complexity of the cable feels like a permanent fight of the single metals for dominance. As a result, some frequencies sound amplified, which was the reason or the first “wow!”-effects but may not be pleasant for everyone on a long term scale. The sound was slightly but audibly messy since some of the metals were fast and dynamically responding while others were slightly dragging behind, resulting in slightly fuzzy sound when comparing it to other “clean” cables (meaning pure silver, pure copper or some gold plated silver or copper, but no complex mix of more than two metals). My personal impression is that this cable performs excellently as an additional cable. If you feel like you want to hear something exceptional and exciting today, you may want to consider the Pandora. But for me myself it could not be my main cable for every day usage.
  
 YY Pro Neptune:
 The YY Pro Neptune is an 8 braid OCC Silver cable from a small local cable maker in Hong Kong. The cable itself is beautifully made and built of really high quality. As for the sound, I was astonished by its sound stage. Among all cables I have tried so far it is one of the top 3 in terms of wideness of stage. It is an extremely detailed, clear and wide cable what made me like it a lot. The cable is much warmer and less analytical than you would expect – due to its 8 braids it loses a great deal of its pure silver characteristics. This has advantages and disadvantages. On the one side, the cable doesn’t sound as artificial as some other silver cables that are brutally crisp and sparkling. It gives the sound a beautiful signature and the slight warmness makes it enjoyable to hear also for treble based pieces, even over a long period. The bass was unexpectedly present. It was well detailed and punchy but not very amplified, from which my setup (the FitEar is a bass monster) benefitted a lot. On the other hand the warm and less analytic character gives rise to a slightly unclean high mids and treble stage. It is not as well separated and crystal clear as a 4 braid silver cable, but therefore does a nice job in the bass. In conclusion one of the cables I liked best.
  
 YY Pro Storm:
 The Storm is a 4 braid pure OCC copper cable with a very solid built. Unlike the copper wizard, its 4 braid architecture gives a very natural character to the cable with the sound being extremely flat. The stage is much wider than the wizard’s stage, while the clarity is comparable. The bass is not as full-bodied and overwhelming but rather adds control and detail to it. The signature overall is extremely balanced on all stages without characteristic V shape copper tends to have. If you are looking for a balanced and natural cable that reflects every detail your audio equipment can produce without changing its signature, this is the way to go.
  
 YY Pro Pluto:
 The Pluto was about the most interesting and fancy cable I have tried so far. A very spectacular OCC silver-gold-palladium alloy that highly entertained me. In correspondence to its complexity this review is slightly longer since I don’t want to miss giving you a full description of this special piece. To start with the few negative points before praising the positive parts I would like to mention two points: sound stage and treble clarity. The sound stage is wide, but not as maximally wide as for example the Neptune or the Plussound X8 GPS are. However, what impressed me a lot was the symbiosis of the metals. Unlike other cables, like the PS tri-metal and the Pandora, the alloy is perfectly harmonic. No boundaries are audible throughout the spectrum which makes this cable amazing. The second negative point is the distortion of the treble and especially high treble stage. I picked this adjective since it is not unclean or fuzzy. The cable has perfect separation and a really clean character. The treble sounds like the type of sound you get when you plug in your E-guitar to your amp and turn up the “effect”-button to maximum. It has some very shrill notes when listening to it, which especially becomes audible after trying the cable multiple times. I personally found it exciting because it is a controlled distortion, but it does not suit every type of music and everyone’s taste. Apart from that the treble sounds very analytic. Not as harsh as a pure silver cable but quite close (I expected it to be softer due to the gold part in the cable, but it maintained a great deal of the strong analytic character of pure silver). Why it is like this is not entirely clear to me: the palladium itself is said to be a replacement for copper and should merely act on the bass (more about that in a moment), so I am not totally certain whether it nonetheless has some effect on the treble or whether there are other effects leading to this special sound signature.
 Apart from that there is not much to criticize. The silver makes the mids and treble amazing. If you like the analytical character of silver but find silver itself too static in the bass region then this is your way to go. It has the full characteristics of the silver without adding too much warmth (unlike the Neptune, although this cable is as well an 8-braid cable) and rather maintaining its analyticity. The spectacular part is the bass and dynamics. This cable is about the most dynamic and punchy cable I have tried so far. It technically feels like someone pinches your eardrum when you hear a guitar being picked or a base drum being kicked, and that makes it exciting. I personally love this very physical character of the cable, while the bass is not as full bodied and strong as of a copper cable. The small palladium part rather controls it and adds a pinch of bass, which harmonizes perfectly with the silver signature overall.
  
 Plussound X8 Gold plated Silver:
 As the name suggests, the PS X8 GPS is an 8-braid gold plated silver cable of amazing quality. The braiding is flawless and it was the first time for me to see a square cable (extremely compact, like a brick). The sound is truly spectacular. It has the widest sound stage I have found so far, pushing your audio equipment to the limit. The stage is so extremely wide that sometimes you feel that it is a bit artificially wide, but for me it is nonetheless awesome to listen to it. The cable has a silverish signature as expected (I mention this since other silver cables or silver based cables differed significantly from what I expected!), meaning that it is a crystal clear, very detailed cable throughout the low mids until the high treble. The gold does the trick: The analyticity is not as dominant as in pure silver cables and makes the sound, especially in vocals and mid-high treble, very enjoyable. The sharp character is damped here and sweetened to a signature that I could listen to all day long. The bass differs audibly from a pure silver cable. It is more detailed and separated while obtaining some power to satisfy my needs also for fast rock and metal songs (for that reason I was sympathizing with copper instead of silver as a bass for a long time!). Unlike the X8 gold plated copper the bass is not as punchy or strong, but rather adds well defined control to it. Due to its overall presentation this became my cable of choice.
  
 Plussound X8 Gold plated Copper:
 Unfortunately I only tried this cable twice and for a quite short time such that I cannot say too much about it. For the build of the cable please refer to the GPS review above. What remained in my mind about the tonality was its great bass. Not overwhelming or overloaded, but perfectly present and structured. Fast, punchy and extremely controlled - exactly the performance I personally like. The gold added very nice detail to the high mids and treble, where the cable became unexpectedly detailed and wide. It was warmer than the GPS and not as detailed overall, but keeping up with a silver cable of that calibre is a quite ambitious goal.
 Now to the part that I unfortunately cannot remember – the mids. I would love to test the cable again and give a more explicit review since it surely had potential. If I get the chance to test it again I will post more about the missing parts.
  
 Plussound X8 tri-metal:
 The tri-metal is a mix of silver, copper and gold. The sound was very detailed and wide in all stages. However, I found the sound of the single metals not to harmonize that well. Unlike other cables like the Pandora, the sound does not get fuzzy or unclear at all but it rather feels like every metal and corresponding stage plays on its own, generating big barriers in between. It sounds like a nice bass stage overlaps a nice mid stage (and so on), but in a complementary way without really fusing into one symbiotic sound that I would personally cherish. I rather had the impression that you could identify exactly which metal the sound comes from, at any time. The gaps in tonality, however, were too big to result in a 3-dimensional sound and rather felt like you listen to three separated cables at the same time.
  
 Whiplash TWau 4 braid:
 As the third gold plated silver cable I, unfortunately, cannot compare it perfectly with the X8 GPS since I could only listen to the 4 braid version. Ignoring these initial conditions and purely focussing on the sound the cable was close to the PS X8. The signature was similar but the sound was a bit harder in a sense that the spectrum did not feel soft and continuously flowing, but rather like hard discrete lines. This may originate from the missing 4 braids, which makes the analyticity of the silver more present and dominant. Furthermore, the mids and trebles were slightly fuzzy. It was minor but audible in direct comparison to the PS X8 GPS. The stage was not as extremely wide the X8, but still very good. In total, I would have loved to test the 8 braid version to have a fairer comparison and believe that it has very high potential.
  
 Whiplash TWag 8 braid:
 The 8 braid OCC silver cable by Whiplash was my steady partner to check on how other alloys and platings changed other cables’ sounds. That is because the TWag is the epitome of what you expect in terms of sound from a silver cable. Unlike the YY Pro Neptune this cable is much less warm. It adds a great deal of stage compared to 4 braid Silver cables but maintains most of its analyticity. It is precise, detailed and crystal clear. There is a slight hint of warmness in the treble but not to an extent that makes the cable sound audibly fuzzy. With this cold and harsh signature if I had to add a nationality I would describe this cable to be perfectly German (being a German myself  .. ).
  
 Cheers!


----------



## jmills8

Nice review Dan E !


----------



## warrior1975

jmills8 said:


> Nice review Dan E !




+1!!

Id love to hear the labkables. Is the Pandora their TOTL? I was looking through some of the aforementioned cables, but now I'm confused again... Should have taken notes.


----------



## jmills8

warrior1975 said:


> +1!!
> 
> Id love to hear the labkables. Is the Pandora their TOTL? I was looking through some of the aforementioned cables, but now I'm confused again... Should have taken notes.


 If you want huge sound stage, details and deep pounding bass go for YY Pro Audio. Their Storm cable is the best.


----------



## flinkenick

@Dan E Daniel, what a truly epic writeup. This has got to be one of the, if not the best posts so far.
  
 Very informative, what a great contribution. A post that does the name of this thread justice!


----------



## warrior1975

jmills8 said:


> If you want huge sound stage, details and deep pounding bass go for YY Pro Audio. Their Storm cable is the best.




I do!!! I'll check them out too. Thanks bro. Are they sexy cables though? You know I need beautiful cables, just as important as the sound to me... Yes, I know, I'm shallow.


----------



## jmills8

warrior1975 said:


> I do!!! I'll check them out too. Thanks bro. Are they sexy cables though? You know I need beautiful cables, just as important as the sound to me... Yes, I know, I'm shallow.


 Ha Ha. Thats what she said.


----------



## Vitor Valeri

Interesting topic!

  
Here my cable reviews:
  
*A short impression of the Effect Audio Thor Copper with JH5* 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/effect-audio-thor-coper-iem-upgrade-cable/reviews/16329

  
  
*JH5 + Effect Audio Ares Cable*
http://www.head-fi.org/products/effect-audio-occ-pure-copper-ares/reviews/12420

  
  
Soon I will make a review of the Effect Audio Ares II.


----------



## Dan E

warrior1975 said:


> +1!!
> 
> Id love to hear the labkables. Is the Pandora their TOTL? I was looking through some of the aforementioned cables, but now I'm confused again... Should have taken notes.


 

 Pandora is indeed their TOTL cable, no question about that. What kind of sound and signature are you looking for?


----------



## warrior1975

jmills8 said:


> Ha Ha. Thats what she said.




Lol... Focker!!


----------



## warrior1975

dan e said:


> Pandora is indeed their TOTL cable, no question about that. What kind of sound and signature are you looking for?




Bass, lots of it. No bleed into mids and extended highs, not rolled off. Basically, everything. 

Currently I have whiplash 8 strand modular TWau and Tralucent uBer Too. Love them both.


----------



## jmills8

Beat Audio Billow 2K Hybrid Cable. Sound signature well it does everything. Great deep Bass, smooth but detailed Mids and very extended Treble. Very wide sound stage.


----------



## Kerouac

jmills8 said:


> Beat Audio Billow 2K Hybrid Cable. Sound signature well it does everything. Great deep Bass, smooth but detailed Mids and very extended Treble. Very wide sound stage.


 
  
 It looks great man! At what price?


----------



## flinkenick

jmills8 said:


> Beat Audio Billow 2K Hybrid Cable. Sound signature well it does everything. Great deep Bass, smooth but detailed Mids and very extended Treble. Very wide sound stage.


 
 That is one hell of a cable man, and it looks amazing. This is almost, dare I say.. cable porn.
  
@Kerouac 2K.. as in $2000


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> It looks great man! At what price?


 A little over $2,000.


----------



## Kerouac

flinkenick said:


> That is one hell of a cable man, and it looks amazing. This is almost, dare I say.. cable porn.
> 
> @Kerouac 2K.. as in $2000


 
  
 Thanks...I just ordered 3 and put my kids for sale on eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Btw, looking forward to your review on this one!


----------



## jmills8

kerouac said:


> Thanks...I just ordered 3 and put my kids for sale on eBay


 I cancelled my Root Canal and will just pull my tooth out.


----------



## warrior1975

Damn bro, you spent $2gs?? Ballin!!


----------



## Forty6

flinkenick said:


> That is one hell of a cable man, and it looks amazing. This is almost, dare I say.. cable porn.
> 
> @Kerouac
> 2K.. as in $2000




2 K HKD , oh yeah after conversion , that's kinda reasonable .






jmills8 said:


> A little over $2,000.




Yeah it's 2 K but it's in HKD dollars correct :rolleyes:





kerouac said:


> Thanks...I just ordered 3 and put my kids for sale on eBay
> 
> Btw, looking forward to your review on this one!




Wait a minute save those kids on eBay , he said 2 K , but consider where he's coming , I take that 2k as HKD in dollars . 



Ha


----------



## jmills8

forty6 said:


> 2 K HKD , oh yeah after conversion , that's kinda reasonable .
> Yeah it's 2 K but it's in HKD dollars correct :rolleyes:
> Wait a minute save those kids on eBay , he said 2 K , but consider where he's coming , I take that 2k as HKD in dollars .
> 
> ...


 18,000 HKD


----------



## Forty6

jmills8 said:


> 18,000 HKD




Immunity is the best medicine .


----------



## Sound Eq

jmills8 said:


> 18,000 HKD


 
 man, i still am not a firm believer in cables, but i can think of buying a cable, just for the looks of it but not more than 200 usd


----------



## Dan E

jmills8 said:


> 18,000 HKD


 

 I held this cable in my hands some months ago and can confirm that it is not 2000 HKD ...


----------



## Forty6

jmills8 said:


> 18,000 HKD




I wondered how many kilos of my all time favorite BBQ pork can buy with 2k euros ..


----------



## chaiyuta

Could anyone summarize purity priority?
 OCC is better than OFC, isn't it? 
 more stranded wire is better than solid wire, isn't it?
 less number of AWG is better than more number of AWG, isn't it?
 What's Litz technology?
  
 I'm very newbie in high-quality cable technology. Only one thing I know is 7N = 99.99999% and 7N is better than 6N.


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## jmills8

No no,no, in my experience more wites doesnt mean better nor is Copper more warm than Silver. In most cases ? Yes but not always.


----------



## Xamdou

chaiyuta said:


> less number of AWG is better than more number of AWG, isn't it?


 
 I am not an expert myself but lesser awg does not equal more copper/silver as I have seen some wires that have a hell thick shielding with quite little amount of conductors and thus lesser awg rating.


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## jmills8

jmills8 said:


> Beat Audio Billow 2K Hybrid Cable. Sound signature well it does everything. Great deep Bass, smooth but detailed Mids and very extended Treble. Very wide sound stage.




Added a better pic.


----------



## flinkenick

chaiyuta said:


> Could anyone summarize purity priority?
> OCC is better than OFC, isn't it?
> more stranded wire is better than solid wire, isn't it?
> less number of AWG is better than more number of AWG, isn't it?
> ...


 
 Purity should be one of the most important aspects, as it would relate to conductivity. Theoretically, OCC should indeed be better than OFC. It's a different process. 
  
 With more stranded wire, are you referring to an individual wire consisting of multiple tiny wires (like in the pic above)? That is called Litz construction. A wire can consist of 10 tiny wires, or even 60 or 72 for instance. It is more expensive, and high quality wires almost always use this construction. 
  
 To be honest, I don't know if and what the effect of AWG is on sound. I don't think smaller or larger is necessarily better. 
  
 From what I understood from Peter from DHC, 7N is theoretically not measurable or possible. I might be more of a marketing claim. I consider 6N to be the highest, and am somewhat weary of 7N claims.
  
 But if there are any MoT's reading this, feel free to jump in.. I think we'd all like to be educated on these matters, at least I would.


----------



## Forty6

jmills8 said:


> Added a better pic.




Your 18k worth cables are all over the place What 

And it's as you're the only one who owned expensive cables :rolleyes:

Now here's mine , sonically wise I RECKON is more or less comparable to yours , just different wiring 

Yours silvery gold , mine is black pearl


----------



## jmills8

forty6 said:


> Your 18k worth cables are all over the place What
> 
> And it's as you're the only one who owned expensive cables :rolleyes:
> 
> ...


 Looks nice but my focus is on the sound.I wished mine was plain black.


----------



## Forty6

jmills8 said:


> Looks nice but my focus is on the sound.I wished mine was plain black.




Acrylic paint . 

Permanent marker .







Your choice .


----------



## rushofblood

forty6 said:


> Your 18k worth cables are all over the place What
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's funny how your only contribution to a high end IEM cable thread is constant rambling about how expensive they are and how owners should paint them black to match stock cables since the sound is "comparable". No one's forcing you to purchase anything, and if you cannot appreciate the sonic improvements cables bring what exactly are you doing in this thread?


----------



## jmills8

rushofblood said:


> It's funny how your only contribution to a high end IEM cable thread is constant rambling about how expensive they are and how owners should paint them black to match stock cables since the sound is "comparable". No one's forcing you to purchase anything, and if you cannot appreciate the sonic improvements cables bring what exactly are you doing in this thread?


 Tongue and Cheek.


----------



## Forty6

rushofblood said:


> It's funny how your only contribution to a high end IEM cable thread is constant rambling about how expensive they are and how owners should paint them black to match stock cables since the sound is "comparable". No one's forcing you to purchase anything, and if you cannot appreciate the sonic improvements cables bring what exactly are you doing in this thread?




You look even funny with those long words of ranting . As if my post bothers u so much ha .


----------



## rushofblood

forty6 said:


> You look even funny with those long words of ranting . As if my post bothers u so much ha .


 
 Well, it does get in the way of people who want to seriously discuss the merits and characteristics of these fine cables, something which I feel is pretty underrepresented in the hobby. If you're in Singapore maybe you should drop by some of the local stores to try cables before dismissing them


----------



## Forty6

rushofblood said:


> Well, it does get in the way of people who want to seriously discuss the merits and characteristics of these fine cables, something which I feel is pretty underrepresented in the hobby. If you're in Singapore maybe you should drop by some of the local stores to try cables before dismissing them




Care to enlighten me in what way in my post has dismissing cables ? 
Anyway those post I had quote is direct to a friend of mine jmills . Not you .
If.my post bothers u so much , u can choose to ignore or flag the post .
You don't come rant , talked and teach me as if you're very educated in regards to cables .


----------



## rushofblood

forty6 said:


> Care to enlighten me in what way in my post has dismissing cables ?
> Anyway those post I had quote is direct to a friend of mine jmills . Not you .
> If.my post bothers u so much , u can choose to ignore or flag the post .
> You don't come rant , talked and teach me as if you're very educated in regards to cables .


 
 Quite sure claiming that stock cables are "comparable" sonically to what appears to be an 8 braid silver and gold-plated litz cable is dismissing them, but well, I'm just trying to tell you that you really should try out some upgrade cables (readily available for audition in a few stores here) to see what the difference is as opposed to just comparing them to how much bak kwa you can buy (haha).


----------



## Forty6

rushofblood said:


> Quite sure claiming that stock cables are "comparable" sonically to what appears to be an 8 braid silver and gold-plated litz cable is dismissing them, but well, I'm just trying to tell you that you really should try out some upgrade cables (readily available for audition in a few stores here) to see what the difference is as opposed to just comparing them to how much bak kwa you can buy (haha).




How do u know I didn't owned or demo these cable before ? Your just assuming here . 
Anyway shouldn't waste time on you . I don't even know you . Ha


----------



## Brooko

[Mod Comment]


----------



## flinkenick

brooko said:


> [Mod Comment]


 
 Thanks Paul.
  
 Guys, I honestly don't think there was foul play intended. No need to get heated up!
  
 -edit- 
 Actually did not see Forty6 explicitly states he hates cables. In that case, I understand your sentiment, there are many people that oppose cables. But I request you leave this one thread alone, where people that do enjoy them can discuss them without constantly having to defend them.


----------



## Xamdou

Anyways, back to topic. Here's a picture of my 6 wire Ares 2+ from Effect Audio. Totally not a cable for otg use but the craftsmanship is superb!


----------



## chaiyuta

Xamdou : I've ever tried this cable. I like how bass and sub-bass sound with a bigger stage and detail in low frequency range. Though vocal doesn't reach my satisfactory. Look forward to next revision of Ares series.


----------



## Xamdou

chaiyuta said:


> Xamdou : I've ever tried this cable. I like how bass and sub-bass sound with a bigger stage and detail in low frequency range. Though vocal doesn't reach my satisfactory. Look forward to next revision of Ares series.


 
 Yes! I am quite surprised with the increase in sound stage and details. And yes I agree with you, the vocal wasn't as good as what I thought it would be. Now I feel like saving up to try their Silver 2+.


----------



## rushofblood

I apologise if I sounded a touch inflammatory. Not my intention to get people riled up, really.
  
 Quote:


xamdou said:


> Yes! I am quite surprised with the increase in sound stage and details. And yes I agree with you, the vocal wasn't as good as what I thought it would be. Now I feel like saving up to try their Silver 2+.


 
 Have you compared it to the standard 4 wire Ares II+?


----------



## Vitor Valeri

xamdou said:


> Yes! I am quite surprised with the increase in sound stage and details. And yes I agree with you, the vocal wasn't as good as what I thought it would be. Now I feel like saving up to try their Silver 2+.


 
  
 What CIEM you are using?


----------



## Xamdou

rushofblood said:


> Have you compared it to the standard 4 wire Ares II+?


 
 Nope, it is pretty much a blind purchase for me since I am looking for a spare cable either way. The reason for getting it in 6 wire is pretty much in the heat of the moment
  


vitor valeri said:


> What CIEM you are using?


 
 Version 1 of Jomo5. It has a really neutral tuning and the Ares 2+ makes it sound much more fun to listen to.


----------



## rushofblood

xamdou said:


> Nope, it is pretty much a blind purchase for me since I am looking for a spare cable either way. The reason for getting it in 6 wire is pretty much in the heat of the moment
> 
> Version 1 of Jomo5. It has a really neutral tuning and the Ares 2+ makes it sound much more fun to listen to.




Ah okay. I've heard that 6 wire cables can either sound very forward or very laid back depending on whether the extra wires go to the live or ground.


----------



## Rei87

I had an opportunity to hear a particular 8 wire silver+gold plated silver ciem wire hybrid, and had a rather positive impression of the synergy of the cable. However, it did feel a little sterile, and most importantly, limited quantities aside the performance did not warrant the price point (which surprised me since Ive invested a considerable amount into aftermarket cables). Even if it came with all the bells and whistles of the wooden box and such. Cables are all about the sound; and no part of the cable build should be compromised even if its for brand aesthetics. It sounded good, but that was all that it was. Which set me thinking, could I do better since what the market had to offer was, to me, lacklustre. 


 Hence, I thought that since I was able to analyse the materials used inside it (I originally had one half of the hybrid to begin with), and managed to get help from a local head hi guy in sourcing the cable material directly from the manufacturer myself, I'd make myself one with my own tweaks with better parts than the ones used in the retail version  I did however, modify the components used, as I wanted to make it a little more musical, yet retain that similar level of resolution. I also needed to bump up the cable gauge, as the cable used in the original version was, IMO, too thin to produce the sound change I had in mind.

 I'd post pictures later, once I've had time to play around with it a little more. But suffice to say that, I'm more than satisfied with it, and even if I was given the option of purchasing either one at a similar price point, I'd still take this modified version anyday


----------



## Xamdou

rei87 said:


> I had an opportunity to hear a particular 8 wire silver+gold plated silver ciem wire hybrid, and had a rather positive impression of the synergy of the cable. However, it did feel a little sterile, and most importantly, limited quantities aside the performance did not warrant the price point (which surprised me since Ive invested a considerable amount into aftermarket cables). Even if it came with all the bells and whistles of the wooden box and such. Cables are all about the sound; and no part of the cable build should be compromised even if its for brand aesthetics. It sounded good, but that was all that it was. Which set me thinking, could I do better since what the market had to offer was, to me, lacklustre.
> 
> 
> Hence, I thought that since I was able to analyse the materials used inside it (I originally had one half of the hybrid to begin with), and managed to get help from a local head hi guy in sourcing the cable material directly from the manufacturer myself, I'd make myself one with my own tweaks with better parts than the ones used in the retail version  I did however, modify the components used, as I wanted to make it a little more musical, yet retain that similar level of resolution. I also needed to bump up the cable gauge, as the cable used in the original version was, IMO, too thin to produce the sound change I had in mind.
> ...


 
 Is it from one of the makers of the cables in your profile? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I wish I can make my own cables like you do but I lack the skill and equipment to do so


----------



## chaiyuta

rei87 said:


> I had an opportunity to hear a particular 8 wire silver+gold plated silver ciem wire hybrid, and had a rather positive impression of the synergy of the cable. However, it did feel a little sterile, and most importantly, limited quantities aside the performance did not warrant the price point (which surprised me since Ive invested a considerable amount into aftermarket cables). Even if it came with all the bells and whistles of the wooden box and such. Cables are all about the sound; and no part of the cable build should be compromised even if its for brand aesthetics. It sounded good, but that was all that it was. Which set me thinking, could I do better since what the market had to offer was, to me, lacklustre.
> 
> 
> Hence, I thought that since I was able to analyse the materials used inside it (I originally had one half of the hybrid to begin with), and managed to get help from a local head hi guy in sourcing the cable material directly from the manufacturer myself, I'd make myself one with my own tweaks with better parts than the ones used in the retail version  I did however, modify the components used, as I wanted to make it a little more musical, yet retain that similar level of resolution. I also needed to bump up the cable gauge, as the cable used in the original version was, IMO, too thin to produce the sound change I had in mind.
> ...


 
  
 Nice Idea. In my country, there are DIY Guys too. They can make to order. Recently I am considering on 4 OCC silver or anything with gold + 4 OCC copper + balanced jack 2.5mm for UIEM. However I need to study more and listening more to understand characteristic on each material and purity techlogy. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your review of the modified version.


----------



## Rei87

Actually I dont really have the tech equipment or the technical know how to do my own DIY. However, I do have a very specific idea and experience on how the use of second rate parts can compromise the sound of even the best of cables, hence I tend to be a little demanding and unforgiving towards companies standard builds that cuts corners in several small, but none the less apparent, places. What I usually do is, order a cable from the manufacturer (be it plussound, DHC, Toxic, Effect and so on), immediately have it stripped and reassembled in my desiored specifications the moment I receive it. 

 Anyway, enough talk. Here's a pic of my custom inspired silver/gold + gold plated silver improved build. For the fun of it, I've decided to call it the Deianeira. The Deianeira will join my collection of 8 core cables  


  

 The Deianeira is inspired, as mentioned, by another cable that uses a similar hybrid configuration, but tweaked to address several issues that I felt held it back from its fullest potential. First and foremost, I opted to use the Furutech 2.5mm connector for its copper bass core, which improves upon the original company issued 2.5mm plug (yes, the plug does make a difference). I decided to go with the oyaide mmcx for purely practical reasons, as I wanted a connector that was held in place with a actual screw thread which would hold up the constant plug/unplugging in action as compared to the original glue based design. The braiding too was changed, as I opted for a gaucho braid, which ensures that every cable is equally exposed to the environment for equal exposure to external signal interference, as opposed to the standard 8 wire box braid. This decision was made based on my tests on another prior wire which was build in an 8 wire gaucho braid, and it sounded standard different from another wire built in the industry standard 8 wire box braid. Needless to say, I very much prefer the sound of the gaucho braid, and hence why I will probably only insist on the gaucho braid for all my future builds. On a slightly unrelated note, if anyone orders a despoke cable, I highly recommend going insisting on a gaucho braid. if it isnt offered, I suggest pushing a little harder on the fact that it is, after all, a bespoke build, to begin with. 


 Now, as for the actual wire build. The original cable from which I drew my inspiration from used 26AWG cables, and featured a silver + gold plated silver (GPS) build. I found that while it was extremely resolving (especially in the treble and upper mid regions), it wasnt the most alluring of sounds. Vocals sounded, strained on it to say the least. Hence, I decided to keep the best of that build (the resolution and details), while making it a little lusher. 

 So, I settled on keeping and using the exact same gold plated silver wire for that treble extension, but used a different silver cable in hopes of adding body to the mids. To achieve that, I turned to using Plussound's type 2 Litz Silver gold cable. Plussound's type 2 silver gold cable, compared to its current iteration (type 6 I think), is significantly less bassy, but sports a rather lush mids with a wide staging and separation. However, this presented a problem, as the type 2 litz cable was of a 24 AWG cable, and the GPS cable used in the original build was a 26AWG cable. Hence, even though I had the 26 AWG cable used in the orignal cable in a 4 wire build, I couldnt just strip the wire and use it in the build. So, I decided to sell the cable off, and purchase for myself the exact same wire, but this time in a thicker 24AWG form, directly from the manufacturer (I would like to express my thanks to the head fi member who pointed me towards the manufacturer). The thicker gauge also had a rather interesting added benefit; it also added to the texture of the sound which resulted in an enhanced spatial presentation.

 Hence, the above cable is, in my opinion, what that original cable should have been. Resolution wise, out of the box, it matches the original cable note for note. But that is where all the similarities end. This cable was able to present a much more immersive experience, which made for live recordings that much more realistic, as I heard the singer coming at me from the front, which the original cable was unable to achieve. The cheering of the audience, and reverberation of the artiste's voice, as it echoed in the room, was clearly articulated in a rather spherical soundspace, which the original cable did not have.  Also, there was an immediate added sense of body and weight to the vocals, which was my main focus to begin with. All in all, the cable made for a much more engaging and enjoyable experience. 

 So...thats all for now. While this build is certainly not a 'high-end' IEM cable in terms of the price I paid for it (its a third of the price of the cable from which it was inspired from), but sound wise, its surpassed the original cable in my desired expectations, and then some more.

 Unfortunately, the Plussound Type 2 litz SG is no longer in production, and hence I foresee difficulties should anyone else seek to replicate this build. But if anyone does drop by canjam Singapore, I'll be more than willing to let anyone have a go at it. 

 Cheers.


----------



## ironpeg

rei87 said:


> Actually I dont really have the tech equipment or the technical know how to do my own DIY. However, I do have a very specific idea and experience on how the use of second rate parts can compromise the sound of even the best of cables, hence I tend to be a little demanding and unforgiving towards companies standard builds that cuts corners in several small, but none the less apparent, places. What I usually do is, order a cable from the manufacturer (be it plussound, DHC, Toxic, Effect and so on), immediately have it stripped and reassembled in my desiored specifications the moment I receive it.
> 
> Anyway, enough talk. Here's a pic of my custom inspired silver/gold + gold plated silver improved build. For the fun of it, I've decided to call it the Deianeira. The Deianeira will join my collection of 8 core cables
> 
> ...


 
 Admire you Rei!


----------



## chaiyuta

I have a question that is not related to cable. It's about jack. My question is if I plug my source with 3.5 balanced to speaker's input which just supports 3.5 mm SE. Does It make my speaker broken?
 In contrast, if I use 3.5mm balanced cable + earphone to DAP or smartphone which supports only 3.5mm SE. Does it make my earphone broken?


----------



## flinkenick

chaiyuta said:


> I have a question that is not related to cable. It's about jack. My question is if I plug my source with 3.5 balanced to speaker's input which just supports 3.5 mm SE. Does It make my speaker broken?
> In contrast, if I use 3.5mm balanced cable + earphone to DAP or smartphone which supports only 3.5mm balanced. Does it make my earphone broken?


 
 No man, you won't break anything. You'll just get a signal (sound) on one side only, because of the termination in the plug.


----------



## ironpeg

*Please note that you cannot connect single-ended cables to AK240's (or any) balanced output using adapters.  It would damage the AK240 if such an adapter was built and connected.  *​*These cables need to be re-terminated or a new cable needs to be purchased.​*  
*This is the claim from Double Helix Cable. So... IDK... I wouldn't risk that.​*


----------



## flinkenick

ironpeg said:


> *Please note that you cannot connect single-ended cables to AK240's (or any) balanced output using adapters.  It would damage the AK240 if such an adapter was built and connected.  *​*These cables need to be re-terminated or a new cable needs to be purchased.​*
> *This is the claim from Double Helix Cable. So... IDK... I wouldn't risk that.​*


 
 Yes but this is something different altogether  If I understood correctly, he's just asking what happens if you plug a balanced cable in a single ended output.


----------



## Rei87

You can use a balanced CABLE, on BOTH balanced and single end out. Best outcome, you get sound from both, e.g. the Lotoo Paw Gold takes 3.5 TRRS in its single end too. At worst, you dont get sound from one side. 

 however, never, never use a single end cable, on a balanced socket. You could, and most probably will, fry the circuits.


----------



## chaiyuta

flinkenick said:


> Yes but this is something different altogether  If I understood correctly, he's just asking what happens if you plug a balanced cable in a single ended output.


 
 Sorry about my typo. I just amended it. In case 3.5mm balanced cable + earphones plug into 3.5mm SE output of DAPs or Smartphones, Does it make my earphones broken?
  
  
 Thanks all you guys for answering my question. Since some says OK some says NO, I will avoid plugging inappropriate jacks in.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

hello
which cable pair with se5way ult the best? Its on the way.and I'm consider pairing with a ak240.
thanks


----------



## jmills8

dbq5anlxj said:


> hello
> which cable pair with se5way ult the best? Its on the way.and I'm consider pairing with a ak240.
> thanks


Listen to the 5way for a month and sense if you prefer more treble or more sub bass or you just want a wider soundstage.


----------



## dbq5anlxj

jmills8 said:


> Listen to the 5way for a month and sense if you prefer more treble or more sub bass or you just want a wider soundstage.



yes sir!


----------



## chaiyuta

Did anyone hear Effect Audio EROS II+ yet? What's your impression?


----------



## ironpeg

chaiyuta said:


> Did anyone hear Effect Audio EROS II+ yet? What's your impression?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787717/effect-audio-cables-new-thread-for-discussion-reviews-etc-including-a-contest-for-november/105
  
 Page 8


----------



## chaiyuta

ironpeg : Thanks, It's a nice review. How long of revision cycle of ARES and EROS series? For example, since EROS I released till EROS II released, how long does it take to launch a new revision one?


----------



## ironpeg

chaiyuta said:


> ironpeg : Thanks, It's a nice review. How long of revision cycle of ARES and EROS series? For example, since EROS I released till EROS II released, how long does it take to launch a new revision one?


 
 I wasn't the one reviewing that 
 For the question, please ask Eric @EffectAudio


----------



## EffectAudio

ironpeg said:


> I wasn't the one reviewing that
> For the question, please ask Eric @EffectAudio


 
  


chaiyuta said:


> ironpeg : Thanks, It's a nice review. How long of revision cycle of ARES and EROS series? For example, since EROS I released till EROS II released, how long does it take to launch a new revision one?


 
 Heyy, thank you for your interest in EffectAudio's brand's product and development  

 We rarely would do revision to our product line up. Eros, Ares, Thor silver has been in the market for years before making a revision. Unless we discover a major breakthrough in technology, geometry, materials and etc, we will not revise our current product line up. 

 -Eric


----------



## tim0chan

Hi, can I get a recommendation for a cable for the aaw w500? It has a warm and thick signature. I would like something to tighten the bass and shove the mids forward. 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Dan E

I would recommend the whiplash twag 8 braid or YYpro Neptune


----------



## tim0chan

dan e said:


> I would recommend the whiplash twag 8 braid or YYpro Neptune



Thx bro


----------



## Dan E

tim0chan said:


> Thx bro




No problem. The Twag is more analytic and cleaner, the neptune warmer and more musical. They should both widen the mids significantly and tighten and control the bass.


----------



## tim0chan

dan e said:


> No problem. The Twag is more analytic and cleaner, the neptune warmer and more musical. They should both widen the mids significantly and tighten and control the bass.



I'm deciding between a second hand silver widow and the twag, which would be a better match. There's also the dilemma of a black Friday sale on the twau


----------



## tim0chan

Would someone be so kind as to put up a short impression on the norne audio solv x? 
I'm looking at this cable to gift to a friend


----------



## lookingforIEMs

Twau is a great cable but it does boost the bass. I don't assume that's something you'd want if you are looking at a silver cable especially twag n silver widow


----------



## tim0chan

lookingforiems said:


> Twau is a great cable but it does boost the bass. I don't assume that's something you'd want if you are looking at a silver cable especially twag n silver widow



True, I guess now I'll just go for the silver widow


----------



## chaiyuta

Between UPOCC and UPOFC, which one is superior? How many 'N' are they?
  
 UPOFC = Ultra Pure Oxgen Free Copper
 UPOCC = Ultra Pure ? ? ?
 Does anyone know the full name of this abbrevation?


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> Between UPOCC and UPOFC, which one is superior? How many 'N' are they?
> 
> UPOFC = Ultra Pure Oxgen Free Copper
> UPOCC = Ultra Pure ? ? ?
> Does anyone know the full name of this abbrevation?



Ultra pure ohno continuous cast


----------



## flinkenick

SilverFi is a relatively unknown brand for cables, but I can honestly say that they provide a very special sound like no other. As far as I know, they are the only company in the world that makes their own wires from the ground up - as in from raw material. Truth be told, the cotton shielding and special connectors that are required due to the shielding don't make them the most practical for daily use, but again, they're really something else to hear for the cable enthusiast.
  
 They just announced a Black Friday sale for up to 50% on their facebook, I don't know to which models this applies.
  
http://silverfi.blogspot.nl/2016/08/productsprices-urunlerfiyatlar.html


----------



## Blommen

flinkenick said:


> SilverFi is a relatively unknown brand for cables, but I can honestly say that they provide a very special sound like no other. As far as I know, they are the only company in the world that makes their own wires from the ground up - as in from raw material. Truth be told, the cotton shielding and special connectors that are required due to the shielding don't make them the most practical for daily use, but again, they're really something else to hear for the cable enthusiast.
> 
> They just announced a Black Friday sale for up to 50% on their facebook, I don't know to which models this applies.
> 
> http://silverfi.blogspot.nl/2016/08/productsprices-urunlerfiyatlar.html


 
 Oh boy!


----------



## drakhen

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a new cable as my current one has developed a fault. I really want something lightweight as it will be used on the go. I would also like one that doesn't have a big plug (I'm not sure if that is the right word in English, the part that goes into the headphone jack). My earphones have a bright sound with enhanced treble and bass and intimate vocals, so preferably something which doesn't affect the sound signature. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## mrazik

drakhen said:


> Hello, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a new cable as my current one has developed a fault. I really want something lightweight as it will be used on the go. I would also like one that doesn't have a big plug (I'm not sure if that is the right word in English, the part that goes into the headphone jack). My earphones have a bright sound with enhanced treble and bass and intimate vocals, so preferably something which doesn't affect the sound signature. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.


 

 PlusSound Audio Xseries and there choose probably some silver conductor. I have one and it is great light cable ideal on the go.


----------



## drakhen

mrazik said:


> PlusSound Audio Xseries and there choose probably some silver conductor. I have one and it is great light cable ideal on the go.


 
  
 Thanks but I looked at the pictures on their website and the plug is large. I really want a cable with a small and thin plug.


----------



## mrazik

drakhen said:


> Thanks but I looked at the pictures on their website and the plug is large. I really want a cable with a small and thin plug.


 

 There is several choices for each model of many possible terminations. Or you can have a look on Linum BaX. Is light, tiny, with small terminations on both sides, but will drive you crazy with its tangling.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

drakhen said:


> Thanks but I looked at the pictures on their website and the plug is large. I really want a cable with a small and thin plug.




We offer various 3.5mm plugs. Our thinnest one is Oyaide. You can view all examples of our cables in our social sites (link in our signature).


----------



## proedros

flinkenick said:


> SilverFi is a relatively unknown brand for cables, but I can honestly say that they provide a very special sound like no other. As far as I know, they are the only company in the world that makes their own wires from the ground up - as in from raw material. Truth be told, the cotton shielding and special connectors that are required due to the shielding don't make them the most practical for daily use, but again, they're really something else to hear for the cable enthusiast.
> 
> They just announced a Black Friday sale for up to 50% on their facebook, I don't know to which models this applies.
> 
> http://silverfi.blogspot.nl/2016/08/productsprices-urunlerfiyatlar.html


 
  
 just send a pm to them via fb 
  
 thanx Nic (and @Tony1110 )
  
  
 i need a nice cable for my EE athena , whiplash hybrid is good but not the best synergy (and it has amazing synergy with my NT-6 , dream combo there)

 maybe something silver will do the trick with athena ?


----------



## Tony1110

proedros said:


> just send a pm to them via fb
> 
> thanx Nic (and @Tony1110
> )
> ...




Get a Mojo instead man. Amazing with EE IEMs.

But as far as cables go, the best one I tried with Athena was the prototype Norne Silvergarde, which I sold to Kerouac.


----------



## proedros

tony1110 said:


> Get a Mojo instead man. Amazing with EE IEMs.
> 
> But as far as cables go, the best one I tried with Athena was the *prototype Norne Silvergarde, which I sold to Kerouac.*


 
  
 oh well , win some lose some i guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 maybe @Kerouac will get bored with it and sell it to me next
  
 no mojo for me , i just need a good cable for athena and i am set


----------



## Tony1110

proedros said:


> oh well , win some lose some i guess
> 
> maybe @Kerouac
> will get bored with it and sell it to me next
> ...




Do you like Athena? If you're not that struck on the signature, and if it's not so great with the Sony ZX2, then the best cable in the world probably won't make all that much difference.

Remember what the oracles of Head-Fi say about cables being the last link in the chain.


----------



## proedros

tony1110 said:


> *Do you like Athena? *If you're not that struck on the signature, and if it's not so great with the Sony ZX2, then the best cable in the world probably won't make all that much difference.
> 
> Remember what the oracles of Head-Fi say about cables being the last link in the chain.


 
  
 i like it and i listen to it a lot these first days (got it on wednesday) , but whereas nt6 has whiplash hybrid , for athena i have yet to find a cable that maximizes its potential and sound

 it's quite different ciem from NT6 , i still need to listen to them in turns to get an idea how different they are
  
 they are different beasts for sure , but athena is very refined , like i said for the price i like it a lot 
  
 today i realized that they are very different but i still can not grasp exactly why 
  
 athena sounds more full , if i get a great silver cable i think this ciem will explode 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and it gives me a versatility having a reference ciem (nt6) and a more bodied ciem like athena 
  
 my gut feeling was right once more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

 ok no more derailing this amazing cable thread
  
 cheers


----------



## ironpeg

20% off on Plussound Audio for Blackfriday week.


----------



## petroconsult

can anyone you help me pick a cable can improve bass and soundstage, image for my fitear parterre with v shape less than 400$ . tk so much and sr for my english


----------



## jmills8

petroconsult said:


> can anyone you help me pick a cable can improve bass and soundstage, image for my fitear parterre with v shape less than 400$ . tk so much and sr for my english


where you located ?


----------



## petroconsult

Vietnam


----------



## jmills8

petroconsult said:


> Vietnam


DHC Fusion is good and Plussound 8x tri metal is also good.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

petroconsult said:


> Vietnam




You can check out dealer Xuan Vu to audition some of our cables.


----------



## ironpeg

FYI, Black friday deal from Effect Audio
  

  
*Here we go~!! Effect Audio has completed the preparations for the BlackFriday Promo. Here's the exciting details... *

 We will be holding the Two-Tiered BlackFriday promotional campaign! Enjoy yourselves and have a blast shopping for your head-fi equipments this Nov !!

_*1. Cash Rebate / Discount*_

Effect Audio Website will be offering 15% off for the Cable products. Our collaboration IEM/CIEMs will not be applicable. The promotional period runs from *21st - 30th November

2. Black Friday Loyalty Upgrade Program*

Existing EA users may send in their current cables (Thor Copper and above) to upgrade by adding either:

 1) 4wire of "Ares II" (Pure Litz Multi-sized stranded Copper)  - *[RRP : US$149.9]*
 2) 4wire of "Thor Silver II" (Pure Litz Multi-sized stranded Silver) *[RRP : US$349.9]*

"Bespoke" fees and craftsmanship fee will be waived. To further spice things up, these 4 wire upgrade are entitled to *15% off*. The upgrade program period runs from *21st - 30th November.*

 Please email to eric@effectaudio.com for any further queries.


----------



## Rei87

It's a weird prog tho, since mixing a used cable with a new one is a recipe for disaster, due to the different degree of burn in. 

I recognize that the topic of burn in is a controversial one; but its not worth the risk even if you don't believe it.


----------



## ChrisSC

First off, big thanks to @flickenrick for curating this thread- it's really helpful to have so many accessible reviews in one thread! Big thanks too to all the contributors!

Can anybody give any recommendations for my situation:

I've got a pair of tralucent ref 1s who's primary function is gym duty. Yes been using them for this for 3 years without any problems and they've been the best workout motivating purchase I've ever made!

I've been using them with an iPhone 6s Plus with a dragonfly red and cable of choice has been a custom plussound cable 8 wires - (4 silver and 4 silver/gold). But the cable itself is about 2yrs old and there might be advances since I got it, and the 8wire is a bit unwieldy for treadmill running.

Any suggestions for an upgrade or sidegrade? It wouldn't be for critical listening, so mostly looking for a high energy cable with good ergonomics. Money isn't necessarily an issue, but it seems like the more expensive the cable, the harder it is to use on the go, which defeats my purpose.

Many thanks,
Chris


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Any recommendations for Andromeda, especially those on sale now? Used it with Mojo. I want the sound to maintain or improve its clarity, but also tighten it's bass. Is silver cable a good match?


----------



## hamhamhamsta

How's Ares II+ or Thor silver for Andromeda with mojo?


----------



## tim0chan

hamhamhamsta said:


> How's Ares II+ or Thor silver for Andromeda with mojo?



Ares 2plus would be a good match


----------



## tim0chan

hamhamhamsta said:


> Any recommendations for Andromeda, especially those on sale now? Used it with Mojo. I want the sound to maintain or improve its clarity, but also tighten it's bass. Is silver cable a good match?



Try the black Fri sale from music sanctuary in Singapore. If there's not much time difference they can even chat with u


----------



## PLUSSOUND

​  ​ Our Black Friday Special is now live! Enter code *BLACKFRIDAY16* before checking out to get 20% off on custom cables and other first party products. Offer ends 11/30 at 11:59PM PST.​


----------



## flinkenick

chrissc said:


> Any suggestions for an upgrade or sidegrade? It wouldn't be for critical listening, so mostly looking for a high energy cable with good ergonomics. Money isn't necessarily an issue, but it seems like the more expensive the cable, the harder it is to use on the go, which defeats my purpose.
> 
> Many thanks,
> Chris



Hello Chris, thanks for your nice words that is always appreciated!

Sounds like you have a mighty fine cable, but I know how 8-braids can tend to pull when you're on a treadmill or crosstrainer.

You say you don't have specific requirements about the sound, so normally I'd just recommend checking the classifieds for a nice second hand silver at a good price that is lighter.

But you mention it should be an upgrade or sidegrade? Bc if I were guessing I'd say that is a pretty expensive cable. So that would mean you're looking for an upper tier cable that isn't so heavy? As you can tell there are some nice Black Friday deals, maybe that would be a good place to start. If you have specific requirements for a signature members can chime in.


----------



## flinkenick

Hello everybody. I will finish 2016 with 4 last cable reviews.
  
 After that, I am proud to announce I will be focusing entirely on my shootout consisting of flagship 15 iems/ciems.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/826876/ranking-the-stars-flinkenicks-flagship-15-iem-shootout


----------



## tim0chan

chrissc said:


> First off, big thanks to @flickenrick for curating this thread- it's really helpful to have so many accessible reviews in one thread! Big thanks too to all the contributors!
> 
> Can anybody give any recommendations for my situation:
> 
> ...



What's your budget? 
If money is no problem, I'd recommend pw audio's 1960s cable in 2 braid configuration.


----------



## jmills8

tim0chan said:


> What's your budget?
> If money is no problem, I'd recommend pw audio's 1960s cable in 2 braid configuration.


----------



## ChrisSC

Thanks gents for your advice

No real budget, so long as I get an appreciable sound improvement without sacrificing ergonomics 

I'll research that 1960s cable


----------



## jmills8

chrissc said:


> Thanks gents for your advice
> 
> No real budget, so long as I get an appreciable sound improvement without sacrificing ergonomics
> 
> I'll research that 1960s cable


Look at Beat Audio Billow cable.

http://www.beataudiolab.com/products/billow-beat-audio-premium-upgrade-cable?taxon_id=22


----------



## tim0chan

chrissc said:


> Thanks gents for your advice
> 
> No real budget, so long as I get an appreciable sound improvement without sacrificing ergonomics
> 
> I'll research that 1960s cable



It's more than 2000 dollars on music sanctuary (sgd)


----------



## tim0chan

chrissc said:


> Thanks gents for your advice
> 
> No real budget, so long as I get an appreciable sound improvement without sacrificing ergonomics
> 
> I'll research that 1960s cable



Will be an endgame cable


----------



## jmills8

tim0chan said:


> Will be an endgame cable


which iem you using?


----------



## liyzag1

Hi,
  
 am using the se535 with the cowon d,
  
 i wanted a cable with a 3.5 mm right angle and a mic , i dont care for volume controls !!!
  
  
 is a mic possible with 3.5mm right angle ???
  
 can any1 please help !!
  
 thanks !


----------



## PLUSSOUND

liyzag1 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




PM sent.


----------



## tim0chan

jmills8 said:


> which iem you using?



Spartan iv


----------



## jmills8

tim0chan said:


> Spartan iv


Are you wanting more bass, treble ?


----------



## tim0chan

jmills8 said:


> Are you wanting more bass, treble ?



I tried the cable at music sanctuary. The cable basically unlocks the full potential of the iem, increasing resolution, impact and extension.
It also matches with most iems, with the aaw w500 being an exception in my collection


----------



## jmills8

tim0chan said:


> I tried the cable at music sanctuary. The cable basically unlocks the full potential of the iem, increasing resolution, impact and extension.
> It also matches with most iems, with the aaw w500 being an exception in my collection


 Peter Wong 1960?


----------



## tim0chan

jmills8 said:


> Peter Wong 1960?



Yep


----------



## jmills8

tim0chan said:


> Yep


Its a nice cable, I demoed it a couple of times in Hong Kong.


----------



## proedros

still on the lookout for a nice silver cable for my EE Athena , so if anyone here is thinking of selling his *TWag/TWau* cable, send me a pm


----------



## chaiyuta

Could anyone compare between Effect Audio ARES2+ and PW Audio No.5 (which is included with Oriolus or can buy seperately)?


----------



## normie610

You can try Therium cable from Norne Audio. It's silver occ litz cable, I use it with my MH335, and bass impact improved a lot. It's tighter and more controlled (but bear in mind that it will also extend the treble and detail). It's very reasonably priced as well.


----------



## normie610

Sorry I was referring to an earlier post by someone from Vietnam who asked suggestion on a cable for his Fitear IEM


----------



## petroconsult

normie610 said:


> Sorry I was referring to an earlier post by someone from Vietnam who asked suggestion on a cable for his Fitear IEM


 
 thank bro, but i cant hear the sound of silver cable ( i have audiominor celestine cable), it too bright for my taste, i odered plussound x8 pure copper. i hope i made the right decision.


----------



## chaiyuta

Nowadays, Does It has gold-plated copper cable in aftermarket ? I always seen only gold-plated silver cables. If anyone knew, please recommend me.


----------



## flinkenick

chaiyuta said:


> Nowadays, Does It has gold-plated copper cable in aftermarket ? I always seen only gold-plated silver cables. If anyone knew, please recommend me.


 
 Plussound has a very nice gold-plated copper.


----------



## jmills8

chaiyuta said:


> Nowadays, Does It has gold-plated copper cable in aftermarket ? I always seen only gold-plated silver cables. If anyone knew, please recommend me.


plussound has it.


----------



## Bina

Any tips how to get these thick premium cables under some control? I have Hum Pristine with their thick cable, amazing cable, only part from Y-Split to earphones is keeping this stupid shape, that always annoys me. Let them hang from somewhere for long time? Maybe little heat from hair dryer? 
  
 Thanks guys for any advice.


----------



## tim0chan

bina said:


> Any tips how to get these thick premium cables under some control? I have Hum Pristine with their thick cable, amazing cable, only part from Y-Split to earphones is keeping this stupid shape, that always annoys me. Let them hang from somewhere for long time? Maybe little heat from hair dryer?
> 
> Thanks guys for any advice.



A Pic pls? Don't pm, it's for the good of the thread.


----------



## Black Label

Edit: HeadphoneLounge has just replied to me stating this isn't one of their cables.

Hi all,

My brother bought this cable (pictured) for his W90s secondhand, says it's a HeadphoneLounge occ (silver?) litz type 2. He passed it on to me for use with my Shure SE846s as it veiled the sound of his Westones.

It's difficult getting a straight answer out of him on things like this, so its make, model, specs, provenance etc. are still something of a mystery to me. He even suspected it was might be a knockoff, having bought it secondhand, but this methinks is highly doubtful.

Anyway... Whatever it is, I absolutely love it! It has opened up the soundstage hugely, as well as unblocking the bottlenecked presentation, an impression others and myself have reported. Treble extension, attack and decay; crystal clear clarity throughout and punchier, resounding bass are also incremental but no less impressive improvements.

Musicality and fun seems to be the only sacrifice. Presentation seems slower with some music, but with others it's as engaging as one too many wines at a friend's wedding. (By and large the 846s suit just about every genre of music and I should know as my tastes are far reaching).

I do wonder if this cable is silver or silver plated copper. I'm also curious about its connector. Might it be mmcx if it yields such impressive results with mine but not such great results with my brother's W's.

Perhaps I should not worry about the mysteries of it and just sit back and enjoy eh?


----------



## Black Label

Okay, heard back from someone else at HeadphoneLounge. It most certainly is one of theirs, aftter all that! It'/s a type 1 occ copper.


----------



## jmills8

My new Beat Audio Virginia Cable.


----------



## Forty6

jmills8 said:
			
		

> .My new Beat Audio Virginia Cable.





How many euro's for this piece ? For use with what iem ? Where's your previous beats ?


----------



## jmills8

forty6 said:


> How many euro's for this piece ? For use with what iem ? Where's your previous beats ?


 Two of them.


----------



## Forty6

jmills8 said:


> Two of them.




I shall give you bonus track to test it out


----------



## Forty6

jmills8

Here are the bonus track I promised you . But a word of caution to u bro " Don't touch anything " 

[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/PrqYohBV58o[/VIDEO]

Let us know your impression of your new Virgin .


----------



## ironpeg

jmills8 said:


> My new Beat Audio Virginia Cable.


 
 I thought this is Billow and Virginia is the mix between Billow and Prima Donna.


----------



## jmills8

ironpeg said:


> I thought this is Billow and Virginia is the mix between Billow and Prima Donna.


 Yes, it has the details and sound stage of the Billow with the bass and mids of the Prima Donna.


----------



## MikePortnoy

Effect Audio Eros II+ review is online.
  
 Please check the link for the review
  
 http://theheadphonelist.com/effect-audio-eros-ii-iem-cable-review/


----------



## Cloudtastrophe

Has anyone here found the perfect cable for their Noble K10 that improves it's airiness/imaging/depth without adding to the bass?


----------



## warrior1975

I'm buying a new cable. Beat Audio Virginia. Looking forward to getting it, it's been awhile since a purchased a new cable. Hopefully it's as good as jmills8 says.


----------



## Forty6

Edit : double post .


----------



## Forty6

Lots of Virginia on HK Facebook page 
Not just in fashionable . HK is also a good place for hunting down TOTL cables .

Well the page says this virgin cable is limited edition made in just 50 quantity . With just 50 made , it's worth a investment . It's going to be a very valuable collectible item .


----------



## warrior1975

Definitely is a beautiful cable.


----------



## Forty6

With a Retail price of 11980 HKD , it must not only look good must also sounds equally good too to justify the cost . But I guess if recommendation by jmills8 himself , then most likely it's not going to be too far off after all .


----------



## warrior1975

I agree. I trust his ears.


----------



## Forty6

I keep reminding myself to keep a safe distance from this guy jmills8 for the sake of keeping my pocket / wallet intact safe and sound 

But i had been heavily influence by him lately ... And by not keeping a safe distance from him , the end result is that I had evolved into a metal head  all thanks and because of his influence  .
Luckily enough it was just music , as of currently , i do not have any penchant for very expensive Cables yet , yes count myself lucky for that , if not .. unimaginable


----------



## warrior1975

Lol. Yes, he's caused me to spend some money... But in his defense he's saved me money as well, and more importantly, he's recs have always been solid.


----------



## Forty6

That's probably one of the reason why till now I stay faithful to the ASG 2.5 .. through his kind words / advise + honest replies saved me by not having to spend thousands of unnecessary dollars . . Frankly , in here at HF , I for one took his advise very seriously . Very Much Appreciated at you , look here ! dude  jmills8


----------



## warrior1975

2.5s I've had for years now. Great iems, longest I've owned an iem ever. I don't use them that much, but I'll never sell them. Interested in hearing them with my new cable.


----------



## Forty6

I thought you had already managed to sold off not one but two asg 2.5 over the course of your ownership of the 2.5 ? 1 black and 1 brushed nickel ? 
That brushed Nickel 2.5 sold off a few months back to the man himself or to someone else if my memory serves me right  

Yes it's a great iem imo , the asg2.5 is that good along with good eq , Damm good to be a single solution to all across my entire genre type of music , movies , streaming spotify , YouTube channels music videos etc .

Anyway jmills8 is having a wonderful time with the 2 beats which he had now owned together with the 2.5 , hopefully you too will enjoy the cables brings to your music .
Congrats and updated us your impression after you receive it .


----------



## warrior1975

Yes, I did. But still have one left.  I bigot the brushed nickel thinking I'd like it, but I didn't care for it, so sold it to jmills8.


----------



## Forty6

Save and never sold away that last piece of 2.5 you had in hand .. lest regrets ...


----------



## Dan E

Hi all,
  
 I have 2 questions for you:
  
 I need a cable for the Zeus R. Problem: they are still being made and I have -no- possibility to try them.
 My question: pure copper, pure silver (8 braid), or silver-copper? Criteria: I am a very sensitive listener. Sharp and analytic treble hurts my ear ( I love gold plated silver, but that is for my fitear 335, so they were originally not strong enough in mid and treble. But the Zeus is just based in mid and treble, so that may be too polarizing compared to the lower mids and bass).
  
 So I am basically dependent on a blind call from your side. Why? I want to make use of the 50% off YYPro cable sales..
  
 That is also my second question: Are there other cable makers with sales at the moment? And would you just buy a cable that you tried before with other IEMs or wait for the new ones and pay twice the amount? The difference is big: e.g. the Pluto cable is 1400 USD normally.
  
 Thanks and best regards,
 Daniel


----------



## flinkenick

For the end of the year I will be returning to my other great passion, with a few cable reviews. Admittedly, they lean towards the high end of the market so will mostly be directed at hardcore cable enthusiasts. But in the near future I will also be doing some more entry-level cable reviews/impressions that are more accessible for a larger audience, so please bare with me for now.
  
 Recently I have been spending a lot of time with plusSound’s gold-plated copper cable, a cable that I’ve grown to appreciate very much. It has a smooth, slightly midcentric signature with a focus on tonality. When I compare it to two other cables that are in the ‘natural realm’, the Rhapsodio OCC mk 2 and SilverFi IEM-R2, the R2 cable has more forward lower and center mids, giving it an inherently warmer midrange. On the other hand, it has a more prominent midcentric signature that strongly imposes its own flavor on an iem. The Rhapsodio OCC mk 2 has more energy in the upper midrange, giving it a more open and clearer sound, but reducing the density and meatiness of the midrange. The plusSound GPC falls right in between, with an excellent tonal balance between the center and upper midrange, giving it a very balanced yet natural sound with an accurate instrument tonality. As the sound isn’t overly warm, the stage remains clean and well defined. I’ve received some questions in the past about people that were looking to improve the performance of their iem, while focusing on tonality. I didn’t really have a proper answer as copper and silver cables often tend to do one or the other, but the GPC would currently be one of my highest recommendations in that regard.
  
​  
 The next cable is Labkable’s Pandora cable; a spectacular 10-braid hybrid of gold-plated copper, copper, and silver. The Pandora has a reference signature, combining clarity and resolution for a well-defined and articulated sound. There is a slight cut in the upper bass/lower midrange that creates a very clean stage, but slightly reduces the subsection of midrange notes, although the sound isn’t lean all together. I just wouldn’t necessarily call it an emotional, warm sound, although it isn’t overly bright. The Pandora offers a lot of detail, but mostly a very articulated sound that is slightly brighter than neutral, especially with already bright iems. Compared to a natural sounding cable like the plusSound GPC or SilverFi IEM-R2, the Pandora can sound a bit digital. This might have a bit of a negative connotation concerning tonality, but let’s not forget ‘digital’ is also associated with a high level of precision. The Pandora combines an exciting, precise sound, with a powerful and well-defined low end. While I’ll pair the plusSound with a smooth midcentric iem as Zeus or Prelude focusing on tonality for instrument-based music, I’ve been using the Pandora with iems like the S-EM9 and NT6pro for electronic music.
  
​  
 I’ve also traded in my SilverFi IEM-R2 cable and paid extra for the R4. I’ve mentioned SilverFi once or twice before here. In my opinion, it is a very special and unique company as they create their material from the ground up. Their cables always use cotton-shielded silver wires, and accordingly, they share a very strong house sound with a focus on a smooth, emotional and natural sound. The wires might be made of silver, a SilverFi cable does not sound anything like a silver cable, or a copper cable for that matter. If anyone’s heard the Lime Ears Aether, that is pretty much the iem equivalent in tonality of the SilverFi house sound. The R4 is a 12-wire cotton-shielded silver cable. While it shares a similar tonality to the R2, the R2 has a more forward lower and center midrange, making it warmer, more emotional, with a thicker subsection of midrange notes. R4 on the other hand has as more linear balance between the center and upper midrange, making the sound purer and less colored, while retaining the smooth and natural tonality. In addition, attenuating R2’s lower midrange presence makes R4’s stage cleaner. More importantly, R4’s stage is larger in all directions. Hearing the R4, is like listening to the AK380's stage for the first time. The depth and spatial cues create a holographic stage that is on a different level than what I have heard before, even compared to R2. For instance, the Pandora also creates a holographic stage in width and depth, but the layering is rather flat. R4's stage is not only larger, it adds height creating a dome shape, and a truly 3D experience. Accordingly, separation is on a different level due to the added height. The R4 combines this special stage with an impressive midrange resolution, and the trademark SilverFi natural and smooth tonality. At the same time it should be noted that SilverFi cables are not really meant to be used outside. There are some practical concerns due to the cotton fabric of the sleeving and flat braid, which should be taken into consideration.
  
​  
 Finally, PW Audio’s 1960 cable has been getting some attention from Singaporean members around the forum  From what I understand it is an extremely promising cable that I have very high expectations of. I will be receiving it next week, and will follow with impressions.
  
 For now, best xmas wishes to everybody around the world.


----------



## twister6

My review of Effect Audio Thor Silver II+ cable is up:  http://www.head-fi.org/products/effect-audio-thor-silver-ii/reviews/17657


----------



## Fiberoptix

Treated myself to a 4 wire RSD Litz from Sammy for my Heir 10 based off much deliberation and awesome advice from Nic. It arrived just before Christmas. Will make sure I post my thoughts in a few weeks. First impressions though, this has some nasty microphonics! Like to the point where this is completely unusable for me on the move. Anyone any tips on how to eleviate this? I'm actually considering completely rebuilding the cable myself and sheathing each wire in cotton!


----------



## EagleWings

Make sure the cable portion that runs over your ear is hugging your skin completely (in case its not hugging already). Makes a world of difference..


----------



## EffectAudio

@Fiberoptix

 Quote: 





eaglewings said:


> Make sure the cable portion that runs over your ear is hugging your skin completely (in case its not hugging already). Makes a world of difference..


 

 You can consider that ^ 

 or you could consider adding Multifilament Sleeving to your cable. It'll help 

 -Eric


----------



## flinkenick

fiberoptix said:


> Treated myself to a 4 wire RSD Litz from Sammy for my Heir 10 based off much deliberation and awesome advice from Nic. It arrived just before Christmas. Will make sure I post my thoughts in a few weeks. First impressions though, this has some nasty microphonics! Like to the point where this is completely unusable for me on the move. Anyone any tips on how to eleviate this? I'm actually considering completely rebuilding the cable myself and sheathing each wire in cotton!


 
 Ah this must have been a while back, I thought RSD stopped selling these. The Silver Litz offers a very clean and resolving sound, but yes it is burdened by microphonics. I think I posted that  a couple of times on this thread as well. 
  
 What helped for me was just wearing under shirt, it reduces microphonics a great deal. But if you listen a lot at a desk, it will be suboptimal to say the least. If it's too much, I'm pretty sure Sammy will let you trade it for a different one.


----------



## Fiberoptix

Sorry, re-reading my earlier comment it sounds very negative! Microphonics are bad yes but I was warned about this . Wearing under my top and keeping the cinch tight helps a lot. 

Anyway, the technical performance of this cable far outways any such issues.


----------



## flinkenick

Review of the Labkable Pandora  It is an outstanding cable, and quite beautiful I might add.
  
http://theheadphonelist.com/labkable-pandora/


----------



## Kerouac

flinkenick said:


> Review of the Labkable Pandora  It is an outstanding cable, and quite beautiful I might add.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/labkable-pandora/


 

 This seems to be a great (both looks and sq) cable!
 Oh man...if I only had the money / budget


----------



## proedros

flinkenick said:


> Review of the Labkable Pandora  It is an outstanding cable, and quite beautiful I might add.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/labkable-pandora/


 
  
 excellent review as always , but man you are crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , i mean - 1300$ for a cable ?

 damn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 great review still.
  
 ps : i just got *whiplash twag v3 (8-con)* , i need to do some more listening but it looks like this cable gave the kiss of life to my EE Athena (which sounded very mediocre  with every other cable i tried)

 i have left the cable burn in now for 40 hours non-stop (@SACD-Man aka Craig from whiplash audio told me that 150-300 of burn-in bring even moreimprovement so i will leave it for another 100-150 hours) and
  
 a)i can detect a discernible improvement from when i got the cable and
  
 b) athena finally sounds like a TOTL ciem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 i am definitely becoming a whiplash cable customer , 2/2 great cables so far (twagv3 and hybrid v3)


----------



## flinkenick

I'm just gonna go ahead and selectively read this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


proedros said:


> excellent review as always ,
> 
> great review.


 
 Thanks buddy, how kind of you!
  


> ps : i just got *whiplash twag v3 (8-con)* , i need to do some more listening but it looks like this cable gave the kiss of life to my EE Athena (which sounded very mediocre  with every other cable i tried)


 
 Nice man, please share a pic and some impressions of the cable. I think I'll also be getting a V3 at some point in a few weeks, though not the fancy 8-braid.


----------



## proedros

flinkenick said:


> I'm just gonna go ahead and selectively read this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 here is a pic
  
 as for initial impressions i am really impressed (currently burned in for 70 hours) so far

 my athena sounded blurry (not veiled) and disjointed (i could sense a huge gap in the middle of the sonic landscape, if you get what i mean) with the other copper/hybrid cables i have , zero synergy imho

 and to be honest i did not like them at all until the twagv3 arrival - in fact i was very seriously thinking of selling them
  
 the twag really changed everything and transformed them into TOTL purchase - the sound is tight and full, there is clarity and transparency and very good separation - and the annoying blurriness has vanished 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i will also do some comparison with my beloved NT-6 , first impression that strikes me is that athena sounds way more vast-sounding and effortess than NT6 (which i love 100%)
  
 both ciems are keepers , so all is good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i will be posting more impressions in the next days but consider me a happy camper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i would suggest you go for the 8-con , knowing how much a cable master you are the 8-con is the one to get
  
  
 pm @SACD-Man  ,he was extra helpful and i am sure you can work something out , beneficial for both of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 have a happy 2017 and maybe someday soon i can visit your ciem shrine in uber-lovely Amsterdam


----------



## flinkenick

Glad it worked out with Athena  Always welcome.


----------



## ChrisSC

There was some good lively cable discussion in the Empire Ears forum until the fun police had to show up and shut it down (to be fair, it was OT), so hope that we can continue it here.
  
 If I start with the premise that the sole purpose of a cable is to act as a conduit between input and speaker, and we want that signal path to be  as clean/efficient as possible, don't we have to reach the conclusion that the best cable would only be made of the highest purity silver available, since its more conducive than copper and a lot more conducive than gold?
  
 I'm trying to separate the science from the fluff with cables. I understand the value of aesthetics and the amount of hours in labor some of the higher quality ones take to create as reasons for extremely high prices, but am trying to wrap my head around if the sound quality can really vary that much, as a cable's only real job is to get out of the way.
  
 Anyone have any thoughts/theories?


----------



## twister6

chrissc said:


> There was some good lively cable discussion in the Empire Ears forum until the fun police had to show up and shut it down (to be fair, it was OT), so hope that we can continue it here.
> 
> If I start with the premise that the sole purpose of a cable is to act as a conduit between input and speaker, and we want that signal path to be  as clean/efficient as possible, don't we have to reach the conclusion that the best cable would only be made of the highest purity silver available, since its more conducive than copper and a lot more conducive than gold?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Different cable manufacturers have their secret "cooking" formula 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of mixing and matching different materials.  Plating the wire, as I mentioned in EE thread, is the most common technique.  Blending different metals is another technique, but a lot more expensive.  Different proportions of that mixing or plating with material other than silver adds some coloration, I guess?  Gold is very common, but has less conductivity than silver and copper.  This is beyond my comprehension, and sometimes it makes me wonder if some of it is actually trial'n'error by manufacturers.
  
 I don't know how you can engineer the sound by predicting exactly which material and how to mix it.  Wire "skin effect" is pure physics (electric signal travels on the surface), thus silver plating makes sense to me.  Using Litz wires, very thin wires twisted together also makes sense because every SPC wire will have signal traveling on the surface and combining many thin wires increases the "surface" area.  Insulation of signal from the ground wires also makes sense, you don't want a cross-coupling (ground noise getting into the signal path).  But when it comes to the material and how its being selected and mixed, I'm puzzled.  Just like I'm still scratching my head how a pure copper PWA 1960 cable sounds better than any other pure copper cable I have tested before.


----------



## tim0chan

twister6 said:


> Different cable manufacturers have their secret "cooking" formula   of mixing and matching different materials.  Plating the wire, as I mentioned in EE thread, is the most common technique.  Blending different metals is another technique, but a lot more expensive.  Different proportions of that mixing or plating with material other than silver adds some coloration, I guess?  Gold is very common, but has less conductivity than silver and copper.  This is beyond my comprehension, and sometimes it makes me wonder if some of it is actually trial'n'error by manufacturers.
> 
> I don't know how you can engineer the sound by predicting exactly which material and how to mix it.  Wire "skin effect" is pure physics (electric signal travels on the surface), thus silver plating makes sense to me.  Using Litz wires, very thin wires twisted together also makes sense because every SPC wire will have signal traveling on the surface and combining many thin wires increases the "surface" area.  Insulation of signal from the ground wires also makes sense, you don't want a cross-coupling (ground noise getting into the signal path).  But when it comes to the material and how its being selected and mixed, I'm puzzled.  Just like I'm still scratching my head how a pure copper PWA 1960 cable sounds better than any other pure copper cable I have tested before.



The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

tim0chan said:


> The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.




That sounds like some evidence that can finally point the cable industry to the right direction. Where did you get this piece of information from?


----------



## twister6

tim0chan said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Different cable manufacturers have their secret "cooking" formula
> ...


 
  
 But that's all part of manufacturing process, and I was under impression majority are using the same UPOCC (Ultra-Pure Ohno Continuous Casting).  So, there shouldn't be too much variation in manufacturing of the wires itself?


----------



## WCDchee

twister6 said:


> But that's all part of manufacturing process, and I was under impression majority are using the same UPOCC (Ultra-Pure Ohno Continuous Casting).  So, there shouldn't be too much variation in manufacturing of the wires itself?




That's what I find with cables, to be honest I am not convinced that the approach to the tuning of cables is as scientific as manufacturers claim it to be. I believe in cables for sure but I am inclined to believe that a lot of it is trial and error. Sure there are probably some concepts that hold true but otherwise, I think a lot of it is based on trial and error.

Also, what you said is true, if they're all made the same way they should sound the same. Yet somehow it isn't quite true. Some copper cables sound bright, some silver cables sound warm, I can't explain that either, I'm no expert haha.


----------



## Rei87

tim0chan said:


> The answer lies in the geometry of the cable itself. When all metals cool, they form crystals. How the cable sounds depends on the shape of the crystals.


 


 Interesting that the topic of crystal structures within cables was mentioned. A couple of days back me and my mates were discussing cable brands that did not source cables from the big two manufacturers, and Crystal Cable came up. As you would have it, much of their metallurgy revolves around manipulating this aspect of the cable's design build. 

 Skepticism aside, their cables are one of the most, if not the most transparent cable I've heard till date, even when compared against giants like the Plussound Silver gold, PW 1960 and so on. I really wish to one day lay my hands on one of their diamond reference grade interconnects.

http://www.crystalcable.com/cables/monocrystal/


----------



## fzman

Cable discussions always involve two considerations/topics - performance/design  and price.  Here's my rant on aspects of both:
  
 I'm not much of a mulit-quote kind of guy, but I have lots to say here.  There are several factors that determine the "sound" of a cable.  The geometry, the metalurgy, the insulation material, and the connectors and termination techniques among them (just in case I am forgetting something here).  In other words the recipe AND the ingredients both matter.
  
 There is also a question as to the goal of the cable-maker; are they trying to get neutrality, i.e., signal in = signal out, or are they trying to get "good sound" based on their specific aesthetic sensibilities? How are the cables tested?  Where are they made? How are the prices determined? Where do the materials come from? -- My understanding is that there are very few sources for REAL Ohno cast copper, and lots of sources for fakes, just to take one example.  
  
 One way to tell that they are meeting their design goals is to look at the line of cables they produce.  For example, Audioquest cables are designed with specific criteria and manipulate specific variables to achieve a specific kind of sound- their cables bear a strong sonic family resemblance to each other.  As do cables from, among others, Nordost, Kimber, Cardas, and Wireworld.  By contrast, there are some speaker companies that produce ranges of speakers, each of which sounds different than the others - one of which may be a reviewer's favorite- seems like THEY (the company) is just guessing and got lucky-almost like the Chimp that starts typing Shakespeare by random chance......
  
 From the customer's perspective, how long iwll it take to get the cable?  Do you prepay and wait?  What happens if you change your mind - just don't like the sound, ergonomics, changed speakers and need diffrent length of connectors? What happens if it breaks?  People often ridicule the big cable makers like Audioquest, Nordost, etc.  But they actually have their wares in stock, can get them to you quickly, and will take care of you through your dealer very quickly.  Some make their cables in the USA, in a real factory.  Kimber braids its own cables on braiding machines that they designed- the Axios required new machines and they designed and built them.  You can get your cable in about one week (depending on shipping time to your location). They are very good about after-sale support, and have different people managing the business activities and building cables- Costs money, but the results speak for themselves.
  
 Wow, guess I got too much sleep last night, and no hangover since I don't even drink.


----------



## ChrisSC

Good stuff!
  
 Considering the opinions shared, I'm wrestling with the question of how can a cable engineer isolate and manipulate variables like treble, bass, soundstage, etc. through the use of different metals, litz braids, etc.? As someone who knows nothing about electrical engineering​, my understanding is that a cable can only be degrees of conducive- less or more.
  
 It seems that if a cable is dirtier (i.e., mixed with gold, composed of a less pure version of the metal, or otherwise not as conducive as pure silver), there might be a veil on the sound, or the impedance might possibly be lower as the sound has to work harder to get through the path. I don't understand how a cable can actually EQ the traits, beyond this. Also, wouldn't the effects show up in graphs?


----------



## Fiberoptix

I don't have as much experience as some of these guys with IEM cables but from the ones I have tried the effects I have noticed are more to do with ADSR and not changes to the DB of specific frequencies. Changes in ADSR could give the perception of changes in frequency response. E.g. the slow onset and release of a bass note vs. the same note played back and disappearing quicker = tighter bass = greater perception of impact = more precision = less overshadowing other frequencies = greater transparency/separation! ADSR is a something that really effects our perception of music and I'm not sure it's easily measurable?


----------



## fzman

Anybody have any experience with LQi cables from the eBay seller?


----------



## sejsel

lookingforiems said:


> That sounds like some evidence that can finally point the cable industry to the right direction. Where did you get this piece of information from?


 
  
 I got shortcircuited once (by the means of the loose power cable) and that particular moment was sort of Travolta's Phenomenon moment... got a vision of the perfect molecular structure of the perfect sounding cable...
  
 By now, the memory of it faded, so huge loss for me = huge loss for humanity....
  
 sort of...


----------



## ChrisSC

Strong condemnation of using gold in cables by Peter @Double Helix Cables:
 http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=11
  
 Anyone agree/disagree, and why? The more I research cables, the more fascinating the topic is becoming to me!


----------



## Fiberoptix

This is assuming conductivity is the sole influencer of all positive properties of highest quality audio! 

Others have found the purity argument not to be true in practice as there are plenty reviews of high resolution cables built from alloys.

My argument and sceptism in all this is why it has to always be be precious metals like Gold and even Platinum in some cases. There are cheaper mixtures that could be used that could also produce interesting results no?


----------



## Fiberoptix

Anyway, I don't think this thread should turn into a place of argument or justification of cable benefits. This was always intended as a safe haven for cable enthusiasts.


----------



## chaiyuta

Yeah, From my experience, I still curious that why I feel pure copper or pure silver better than hybrid material, silver&copper or gold-plated silver cable. Despite of gold-plated silver cable is always top model of each brand.


----------



## ChrisSC

fiberoptix said:


> Anyway, I don't think this thread should turn into a place of argument or justification of cable benefits. This was always intended as a safe haven for cable enthusiasts.


 

 ​I get your point. I actually wanted to post here because I'm far more interested in what the enthusiasts have to say than the skeptics. Enthusiasts are more open-minded, and I feel I can learn more from them than the skeptics, as there's only so many ways to say "no!" Anyway, if @f[u][color=#0066cc]linkenick[/color][/u] would like me to drop this, kindly pm me and I'm happy to delete my posts. This is a great resource and I don't want to detract from it.


----------



## flinkenick

Hi guys, thanks for your consideration. 
  
 Let me clarify my position. I absolutely love cables. I love them to death.  I've had my fair share of arguments about cables in the past. Here on the forum, elsewhere, and even with Peter about the gold and whatnot.
  
 At some point I just decided I was done. Arguments cost a lot of my energy, and neither party will ever get convinced. In the end you can discuss the matter all you like, it just comes down to actually hearing them. And unfortunately most people do not have the opportunity to do so.
  
 So I have pretty much vowed to step back from all cable discussion. If I were the last person on earth to believe in cables, it wouldn't make me enjoy them any less. 
  
 That being said, so far it's not really a debate as the opposing side has not joined in. So by all means feel free to discuss whatever you like, I'm as interested as any other enthusiast in these matters.


----------



## tim0chan

chrissc said:


> Strong condemnation of using gold in cables by Peter @Double Helix Cables:
> http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=11
> 
> Anyone agree/disagree, and why? The more I research cables, the more fascinating the topic is becoming to me!



In my opinion, conductivity does not really matter if u have a powerful amp. Less conductivity just means more resistance which can be dealt with by using a powerful amp


----------



## lookingforIEMs

chaiyuta said:


> Despite of gold-plated silver cable is always top model of each brand.




Could be that the gold tames the 'bright' effect of the silver, making for a more pleasant listen.


----------



## chaiyuta

lookingforiems said:


> Could be that the gold tames the 'bright' effect of the silver, making for a more pleasant listen.


 
 Compare to nowadays Pure OCC Silver Litz (Not 2014 below silver cables), I feel the gold-plated one has less micro-detailed or resolution than pure silver, however I can feel that the sound become smoother than pure silver, but the sound make me feel weird.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that my IEM may not the top-notch resolution models. If gold-plated one paring to top-notch resolution IEMs (for instance, Zeus), they may bring out a good matching.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

So,here`s my issue with my 5 moths old gold plated copper EXO set of cables.The green is OXIDATION/ sulfation mark.I called them and they keep telling me that this is normal,while I and many of my friends believe that this may cause problems on audio quality.Either way,this is evidently a significant sign of poor build quality for a 2k dollars pair of cables.
 Does anyone has experienced the same issue?
 Is it normal?Does it affect the audio quality?And what do you think i should do?
 THANKS


----------



## lookingforIEMs

chaiyuta said:


> Compare to nowadays Pure OCC Silver Litz (Not 2014 below silver cables), I feel the gold-plated one has less micro-detailed or resolution than pure silver, however I can feel that the sound become smoother than pure silver, but the sound make me feel weird. I think that my IEM may not the top-notch resolution models. If gold-plated one paring to top-notch resolution IEMs (for instance, Zeus), they may bring out a good matching.




Yup. You could think of gold acting as an impurity here, colouring the bright silver sound. This could affect microdetails as it lessens the clarity, or by actually degrading the signal as compared to a full silver cable.


But if that were all it was about cables, then everyone would be using pure silver litz and what not. However, it isn't. The choosing of cables also takes into account other factors like sound signature. This is where all these different cables appeal to everyone, I guess.


----------



## Kerouac

Looks like your cable has adjusted (chameleon style) to your Andromeda on this pic, which you posted in the Campfire Audio thread before.

  
 I totally agree that this shoudn't happen to such an expensive cable, it really looks bad. But I'm almost (not 100%) sure that oxidation won't influence the sq. Can't remember where I've read this in the past though...
  
 Curious on others opinion about this oxidation vs sq issue


----------



## chaiyuta

morimoriya 62 said:


> So,here`s my issue with my 5 moths old gold plated copper EXO set of cables.The green is OXIDATION/ sulfation mark.I called them and they keep telling me that this is normal,while I and many of my friends believe that this may cause problems on audio quality.Either way,this is evidently a significant sign of poor build quality for a 2k dollars pair of cables.
> Does anyone has experienced the same issue?
> Is it normal?Does it affect the audio quality?And what do you think i should do?
> THANKS


 
  
 Hey guy. Don't panic. The oxidation is natural. If your cable is just OFC or OCC not OCC litz. This issue can happen in the due course. Unfortunately, your EXO gold-plated copper is not OCC litz, isn't it? That's why I avoid non-litz version cables. I quite sure that cables that had been launched before 2014. (If I am correct, before 2014 there is no litz version.) It just look poor but it has no problem.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

GPC is the only remaining wire we have that does not have enamel coating (litz) since it is relatively new to the market.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

the appearance was very important to me if I knew I never bought.I'm sure nobody does not like oxidized cable


----------



## chaiyuta

There are two version of oxidation. One is green and two is black. I own SPC OCC cable one. It turns black not green. It looks like burning-mark rather than green fungus. Yeah this may be the proof that this cable passed more than 100hours burn-in. haha.


----------



## lookingforIEMs

morimoriya 62 said:


> the appearance was very important to me if I knew I never bought.I'm sure nobody does not like oxidized cable





You could always sheath the cable. I hear that this could improve the sound too, as with DHC's heavily shielded complement series of cables


----------



## fzman

chaiyuta said:


> There are two version of oxidation. One is green and two is black. I own SPC OCC cable one. It turns black not green. It looks like burning-mark rather than green fungus. Yeah this may be the proof that this cable passed more than 100hours burn-in. haha.


 
 copper turns green, silver turns black - these are the oxides.  other contaimanants turn various metals various colors.  Tarnish/oxidation is not always sonically neutral, because of skin effect and the fact that some "discolorations" are semi-conductors, not conductors.


----------



## EffectAudio

flinkenick said:


> Hi guys, thanks for your consideration.
> 
> Let me clarify my position. I absolutely love cables. I love them to death.  I've had my fair share of arguments about cables in the past. Here on the forum, elsewhere, and even with Peter about the gold and whatnot.
> 
> ...


 


_As a Cable Manufacturer, these in depth intellectual discussions brings us great joy and is of great interest to us  In fact, prior to posting this, EffectAudio team was hoarding around a small monitor screen excitedly reading this discussion while having some differing opinions of our own. Thought i'll share our views to the community while being at it. After all, there isn't right or wrong views, only popular opinions , so read this with a light heart and open mind _
  
  
*1) Purity * As many of you guys have come to realised, yes it matters. Purity of the raw cable material with no regards to which kind (Eg : Gold/Silver/Copper/etc) is the most fundamental aspect and no cable manufacturers should overlook it. At current technology and market trending, reputable cable makers and DIY-ers alike are all into highest grade purity OCC cables (99.99%++) within their works. However Suyang, EA's founder has often reminded us to not obsess over a fundamental basic aspect. There are a plethora of other elements & unexplored grounds that is more worthwhile of our collective efforts as enthusiasts and manufacturers to look into. 

  
*2) Conductivity * Practically, amongst the most commonly found metals especially in our industry (Copper/Silver/Gold), Pure "Silver"  is the most conductive metal within the selections, meaning the transmission of signals is the best. Interestingly, even for the more developed Hi-Fi cables Industry, there exists Copper / Gold materials. If conductivity were to be the sole critical element to SQ, why is there even Copper cables in the market, and how do we explain why some of us prefers Copper cables to Silver? Ergo, EffectAudio design philosophy works with the assumption that every element could affect Cables unique's make up which translates to sound quality/signature/characteristics in a myriad of subtle or nuanced way. As you've probably experienced between brands, no 2 "Silver" cables sound the same albeit employing the same OCC Silver materials base or even the same raw materials manufacturer/processing. 

*3) Materials & Processing*
 Wherein, there are various techniques to process the aforementioned materials made available to us - Plating, Alloy are just some common examples of them. These techniques, formulas and geometry does lowers the conductivity to a certain extent, however these processes affects the signal transmission is ways that we couldn't explain. We've often tested our Cables in JomoAudio's lab with his extensive equipments & IEMs. Frequency response are often very very similar, yet the sound is rather drastically different. Then there's also the issue of Skin Effect & Impedance which does affect cables and how they sound.
 Fuelled by our innate curiosities to these unexplainable yet invigorating facts uncovered and a desire to change the en masses perception of cables and their effects, EffectAudio under Suyang's guidance took a stance - that we would be open to explore any materials, techniques and design even if it would seem completely absurd. Our main focus would solely be on "Sound Quality" & "Sound Signature", thats our core belief. 


_Again, we are enthusiasts, hobbyist, individuals with different perceptions and preferences with a passion in this industry. Would Science really matter in the pursue of what we like. The Head-Fi UIEM/CIEM/Cabling industry has been brought up by hearing aids industry, thats why we often drifted into looking at whats important to their community (Hearing Aids), not whats important to ours. Would medical grade, ultra high purity, ultra conductive really matter to you if the cable made your Flagship Headphone/IEM sounds like a broken record player?... Something to ponder about ~ _
  
_-Eric _


----------



## Overkill Red

Got my HD800 modded to use mini XLR pins today.
Of course, the nasty internal wiring was replaced with something more worthy of the headphone.
PW Audio 1960.


----------



## Ikari Rei

I think that cable materials aside, an aspect very often forgotten is the plug and solder used. If the wire used does indeed cause a perceptible difference, then what of the plugs and solder, being the starting and end point of the signal transmissions? 

 Would a cheap, for example, AEC plug sound the same or worse than a full copper core Furutech (that costs about 20times more per plug)? I am by no means an expert, so are there any people well versed in the field of cable craft who can chip in?
  
 And if it does sound better, excluding budget brands for obvious reasons, why don't all boutique cable companies use Furutech plugs instead of compromising the sound. The only company that I know of, that even pays attention of the plugs used, is PW audio (furutech plugs) and DHC (they offer copper pins as an option).


----------



## ChrisSC

overkill red said:


> Got my HD800 modded to use mini XLR pins today.
> Of course, the nasty internal wiring was replaced with something more worthy of the headphone.
> PW Audio 1960.


 
 Any change in sound?


----------



## Overkill Red

chrissc said:


> Any change in sound?


 
  
 Yes. Less shrillness and more bass presence, from initial listen.
  
 I think a lot of issues are caused by the wacky wire originally used, which had quite a high impedance considering its length.


----------



## ChrisSC

That's interesting. Has it changed its amping requirements? I've never owned hd800, but have heard that it's notoriously picky when it comes to amping.


----------



## flinkenick

> Spoiler: Cable info
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for sharing, always nice to hear more from manufacturers. 
  


plussound said:


> GPC is the only remaining wire we have that does not have enamel coating (litz) since it is relatively new to the market.


 
 I thought Litz referred to that each wire consisted of multiple tiny wires (wiki), which is also present on the GPC? Maybe I'm mixing something up. I have the GPC noted as Litz construction but I can edit that out.
  
 Here's my review of the X8 GPC, it comes highly recommended.
  
http://theheadphonelist.com/plussound-x8-gold-plated-copper/


----------



## saktanbers

effectaudio said:


>


 
 "Fuelled by our innate curiosities to these unexplainable yet invigorating facts uncovered and a desire to change the en masses perception of cables and their effects, .... that we would be open to explore any materials, techniques and design even if it would seem completely absurd. Our main focus would solely be on "Sound Quality" & "Sound Signature", thats our core belief." 
  
 Amen friends...


----------



## chaiyuta

At least. Should we make a conclusion that more number of wires and more thicker of AWG gauge will sound superior based on same brand, same material and same manufacturing process (for instance, 8 wires better than 4 wires and 21 awg better than 26 awg.)?


----------



## twister6

chaiyuta said:


> At least. Should we make a conclusion that more number of wires and more thicker of AWG gauge will sound superior based on same brand, same material and same manufacturing process (for instance, 8 wires better than 4 wires and 21 awg better than 26 awg.)?


 
  
 The larger cross-section area of the wire, the lower is your resistance.  So, thicker wires (lower AWG rating) or more wire braids will help to reduce resistance.


----------



## ChrisSC

twister6 said:


> The larger cross-section area of the wire, the lower is your resistance.  So, thicker wires (lower AWG rating) or more wire braids will help to reduce resistance.


 

 ​Because we can measure ohms, if we compared the electrical resistance of an 8 wire cable to that of a 4 wire cable of the same composition, what type of measurable difference would there be?


----------



## twister6

chrissc said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > The larger cross-section area of the wire, the lower is your resistance.  So, thicker wires (lower AWG rating) or more wire braids will help to reduce resistance.
> ...


 
  
 If I don't forget, will take a quick measurement tonight.  Always good to try it with cables that use the same wires.   I have the original Oriveti Primacy 4braid cable and their new 8braid version (both mmcx connector, spc cables - the only difference is 4 vs 8 wires).  Will be a nice way to prove this theory


----------



## fzman

twister6 said:


> If I don't forget, will take a quick measurement tonight.  Always good to try it with cables that use the same wires.   I have the original Oriveti Primacy 4braid cable and their new 8braid version (both mmcx connector, spc cables - the only difference is 4 vs 8 wires).  Will be a nice way to prove this theory


 
 Do you have a bench meter sensitive enough to make accurate measurements of small differences?


----------



## twister6

fzman said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > If I don't forget, will take a quick measurement tonight.  Always good to try it with cables that use the same wires.   I have the original Oriveti Primacy 4braid cable and their new 8braid version (both mmcx connector, spc cables - the only difference is 4 vs 8 wires).  Will be a nice way to prove this theory
> ...




I keep with me handy a few top Fluke true rms multimeters, if thats not good enough i will see what we got available in the lab at work


----------



## fzman

twister6 said:


> I keep with me handy a few top Fluke true rms multimeters, if thats not good enough i will see what we got available in the lab at work


 
 Coolio!  I am thinking that the average hand-held meter might not accurately measure differences that small.  Flukes, on the other hand.....   Benchtop pretty likely will


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> At least. Should we make a conclusion that more number of wires and more thicker of AWG gauge will sound superior based on same brand, same material and same manufacturing process (for instance, 8 wires better than 4 wires and 21 awg better than 26 awg.)?



Just make sure you are aware of the increase in thickness not actually improving sound much.


----------



## twister6

fzman said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > I keep with me handy a few top Fluke true rms multimeters, if thats not good enough i will see what we got available in the lab at work
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately, the cable I was using for comparison (the same spc wire in 4briad vs 8braid cables from Oriveti) is mmcx connector which is PITA to measure, as you can imagine.
  
 Using FLUKE 79 Series II multimeter, I'm measuring 0.7 ohms on 4 braid cable and 0.1 ohms on 8 braids cable.  It's nearly impossible to get to the middle of the mmcx connector signal pin, so I was measuring from a Sleeve ring of the plug to outer shell of the mmcx connector.


----------



## Toxic Cables

flinkenick said:


> I thought Litz referred to that each wire consisted of multiple tiny wires (wiki), which is also present on the GPC? Maybe I'm mixing something up. I have the GPC noted as Litz construction but I can edit that out.


 
 Mostly in custom cables it's referred to for enamel coated wires, where each strand  of the cable has a thin enamel coating, this also helps cables from oxidising as quickly as they might otherwise do.
 Gold plating would usually do this to, unless the micron thickness of the gold plate is very low.
  
 Just a note, the pictures of the Silver Widow cable you posted, that cable is not entirely made by us, terminations on both ends, along with the Y splitter have been changed. It looks to be our original SW25.5 wire, which was discontinued over 2 years ago and replaced by the 24 and 22.
  

  
 Here's one of ours


----------



## EagleWings

My review of the Effect Audio Leonidas cable is up:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/effect-audio-leonidas/reviews/17788
  
 Happy Listening!


----------



## flinkenick

eaglewings said:


> My review of the Effect Audio Leonidas cable is up:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/effect-audio-leonidas/reviews/17788
> 
> Happy Listening!


 
 Expertly written!


----------



## proedros

eaglewings said:


> My review of the Effect Audio Leonidas cable is up:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/effect-audio-leonidas/reviews/17788
> 
> Happy Listening!


 
  
 could you mention the price  of the cable in the review , seeing that it is one of your 'cons' ?

 thank you


----------



## tim0chan

proedros said:


> could you mention the price  of the cable in the review , seeing that it is one of your 'cons' ?
> 
> 
> thank you



1199 sgd


----------



## flinkenick

toxic cables said:


> Mostly in custom cables it's referred to for enamel coated wires, where each strand  of the cable has a thin enamel coating, this also helps cables from oxidising as quickly as they might otherwise do.
> Gold plating would usually do this to, unless the micron thickness of the gold plate is very low.
> 
> Just a note, the pictures of the Silver Widow cable you posted, that cable is not entirely made by us, terminations on both ends, along with the Y splitter have been changed. It looks to be our original SW25.5 wire, which was discontinued over 2 years ago and replaced by the 24 and 22.
> ...


 
 Hi Frank(?) thanks for clarifying. 
  
 Yes you are correct, it was the previous model. I had it modified to a balanced 3.5 trrs for my previous daps, and the connectors changed to mmcx to use with a particular iem. I also unscrewed the blingy metal plate you used to use as it had some pull due to its weight. You replaced it later with a carbon splitter I believe. 
  
 Was one of my first favorite cables btw, kept me happy for quite a while  It has a good price to performance ratio.


----------



## Vitor Valeri

proedros said:


> could you mention the price  of the cable in the review , seeing that it is one of your 'cons' ?
> 
> thank you


 
  
 US$799,90
  
 http://www.effectaudio.com/upgrade-cables/iem-cables/iem-heritage-series.html


----------



## EagleWings

proedros said:


> could you mention the price  of the cable in the review , seeing that it is one of your 'cons' ?
> 
> thank you


 
  
 Done. Good catch, thanks...


----------



## EagleWings

flinkenick said:


> Expertly written!


 
  
 Thanks buddy!


----------



## Toxic Cables

flinkenick said:


> Hi Frank(?) thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Yes you are correct, it was the previous model. I had it modified to a balanced 3.5 trrs for my previous daps, and the connectors changed to mmcx to use with a particular iem. I also unscrewed the blingy metal plate you used to use as it had some pull due to its weight. You replaced it later with a carbon splitter I believe.
> 
> Was one of my first favorite cables btw, kept me happy for quite a while  It has a good price to performance ratio.


 

 Awesome, really glad you were happy with it.
  
 That was the the first litz silver in IEM/headphone cable, i actually still use a 25.5 myself, not got around to making myself one out of the new wire 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 All the best,
  
 Frank


----------



## flinkenick

I had all but sworn off mmcx iems, but thank god there are finally adapters! Pretty much a must have for the cable enthusiast, these would have saved me a lot of frustration over the last years. I believe plusSound is also making them, these are from Rhapsodio.


----------



## Fiberoptix

Is that not a bit awkward comfort wise?


----------



## flinkenick

I don't really see any issues with comfort, but due to the added length it does help if the cable is pre-bent with heatshrink or something to go behind the ears to keep it in place. 
  
 It might be more of a bit awkward visually, as they stick more forward before bending behind the ears.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Hi guys Norne Audio Silvergarde 21awg x 4 wires. Silvergarde sounds very natural ,smooth,detail micro details,sound stage 3D ,vocal very natural with out harsh ,textured bass, very clean sounding ,trible Better defined and smooth .much better resolution and sepertion . I really love this cable


----------



## spw1880

morimoriya 62 said:


> Hi guys Norne Audio Silvergarde 21awg x 4 wires. Silvergarde sounds very natural ,smooth,detail micro details,sound stage 3D ,vocal very natural with out harsh ,textured bass, very clean sounding ,trible Better defined and smooth .much better resolution and sepertion . I really love this cable



Great looking cable..btw how is the flexibility of the cable..does tend to retain its shape once its curled, especially being so thick? 

Thanks


----------



## Morimoriya 62

spw1880 said:


> Great looking cable..btw how is the flexibility of the cable..does tend to retain its shape once its curled, especially being so thick?
> 
> Thanks



Very flexible Because I've got other cables ,for example X8 SPC ,EXO GPC.
I can simply say that the more flexible x8 But not EXO.


----------



## wiz2596

Hi guys, I just got an rca audioquest cable but it fits too tight into the connectors of my dac and I'm afraid it could damage my equipment, is it supposed to be like this? 

Enviado desde mi GT-I9300 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## tim0chan

does anyone know whether cables from odio cm325 are any good?


----------



## blazinblazin

I am using a Sony 8 braid copper Kimber Kable.

I do like the background filling sound of the copper cable, but compared to my ALO Reference 8 cable (4copper, 4spc). It lacks a bit of details and highs.

If i want something with qualities of both and more highs. Do i go for a Silver Cable, a half silver half copper, Gold plated silver or a Silver gold alloy?


----------



## Jazzi

blazinblazin said:


> I am using a Sony 8 braid copper Kimber Kable.
> 
> I do like the background filling sound of the copper cable, but compared to my ALO Reference 8 cable (4copper, 4spc). It lacks a bit of details and highs.
> 
> If i want something with qualities of both and more highs. Do i go for a Silver Cable, a half silver half copper, Gold plated silver or a Silver gold alloy?


 
 What is the Reference 8 missing?  I have one on the way, and hope not to regret it.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

jazzi said:


> What is the Reference 8 missing?  I have one on the way, and hope not to regret it.




It's missing 4.4 mm 

Just need more power. It's good with Andromeda, but I'm betting it's amazing in balanced mode.


----------



## blazinblazin

jazzi said:


> What is the Reference 8 missing?  I have one on the way, and hope not to regret it.


 

 You won't regret getting Reference 8. I still have it with me.
 Just my own sound preference.
  
 To me Reference 8 sounds very clear and clean. Balanced.


----------



## tim0chan

I've got a q audio French silk cable that I'm modding. This should be awesome


----------



## Jazzi

hamhamhamsta said:


> It's missing 4.4 mm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No, it's not.  I ordered from ALO with 4.4 connector.  I'm have high hopes for it matched up with the WM1Z.


----------



## Bina

So, I want to remade my copper Null audio Vitesse to version for MMCX. Anybody knows of any good quality angled mmcx connector??


----------



## Jazzi

blazinblazin said:


> You won't regret getting Reference 8. I still have it with me.
> Just my own sound preference.
> 
> To me Reference 8 sounds very clear and clean. Balanced.


 

 Thanks, blazin.  I'm looking forward to it.  Mine (with 4.4) was shipped earlier today.


----------



## proedros

i noticed that one of my 8-con hybrid cables has turned slightly greenish - does this have any effect on the sound or is it just a cosmetic effect ?
  
 anyone here with knowledge/experience on the matter ?


----------



## jmills8

proedros said:


> i noticed that one of my 8-con hybrid cables has turned slightly greenish - does this have any effect on the sound or is it just a cosmetic effect ?
> 
> 
> anyone here with knowledge/experience on the matter ?


Looks


----------



## jmills8

Twins, but one leaves home.


----------



## Ike1985

I would like  to take polar opposite cables, one that is extremely warm and one that's extremely cold/bright and blind test to see if I can tell a difference.


----------



## flinkenick

*Toxic Cables Silver Widow 22 and 24 AWG*  
 A while back I started talking to Frank, about cables of course as well as the biz. Frank has enough to say, so it always makes for an interesting discussion. Since I had previously owned the older 25.5 version, he offered to send over his 22 and 24 AWG to try. Although I have been trying to hold off on all reviews due to my upcoming IEM shootout, I couldn’t resist trying for the sake of nostalgia. I guess we all have a sentimental side, and the Silver Widow had a special place in my heart as the first cable that really ‘clicked’ with me.  
  
 See, I first logged in to this forum to buy a second hand EarSonics SM64, recommended by a friend. I was just starting out in this hobby, void of all experience or relevant knowledge. He also gave me the following advice: "You totally need to buy a cable as well bro, just in case the original cable breaks. Plus they look good." So I sauntered through the For Sale fora again, and randomly bought a Whiplash TWag V2. When I tried the combo it seemed to pair well, making the darkish SM64 a little bit clearer and nicer, although admittedly I couldn't tell for sure at the time. But when my SM64 broke and I replaced it with the Velvet, the pairing was suddenly completely off: void from warmth from the bass, the Velvet sounded cleaner, but drained from all emotion. This was not working! So I drifted around a bit, experimenting with a few second hand cables, until I stumbled on the Toxic Silver Widow based on a recommendation from a friend. Everything fell in place - the stage was clean, but it still felt lively and full. I felt the sound was truly 'upgraded': a pairing that brought the best out of both the Velvet as well as the Silver Widow. It was a pairing that kept me more than satisfied for a long time, even after I bought TOTL iems twice the price of the Velvet.
  
​  
*Build*
  
 Frank has seriously stepped up the quality of his build since the last time I saw one, the look and feel of these cables just exudes quality. Admittedly, the thick gauge doesn’t make them the most flexible or ergonomic, but I personally love the feeling of a solid a cable. When you hook up this cable to your source, it gives you the feeling it's about to conduct a massive amount of power. The finish of the connectors, splitter, and slider, looks like the end result of a successful evolution of trying different components, until every last part was perfect. The silver connectors match the slider, and contrasts the carbon splitter and jack. Importantly, the parts are lightweight in use. In the olden days, Frank used a heavy metal plate that I wasn’t particularly fond of. Besides the blingy look, there was a noticeable pull, so I ended up unscrewing it. But these look simply fantastic. The main difference between the two is the thicker gauge of the 22 AWG, resulting in thicker wires. When it comes to looks I actually prefer the 24 AWG as the individual strands composing the main wires are smaller, giving the wires more of a refined, detailed look.
  
*Sound impressions*
  
 I think Frank suggests to burn the cable for 100 hours. I would strongly advise to follow these instructions. Take a listen when you first receive the cable, then put it on to burn and try again after 50 or 100 hours to hear the contrast. There is a trace of harshness common to silver cables fresh out of the box, that smoothens out after burn.
  
*Silver Widow 24 AWG*
  
 The Silver Widow 24 follows a U-shaped presentation with laidback lower mids, and an enhanced lower treble response. Accordingly, the overall clarity and separation benefits most from its presentation.
  
 The bass plays a central role in the Silver Widow’s presentation. Specifically, the mid-bass is attenuated, resulting in a slight reduction of the overall body of the bass. However, as the sub-bass is plentiful in quantity, the bass is nevertheless significant in impact with an overall satisfying amount of power in the low end. As the balance within the bass has shifted from the mid- to sub-bass, the bass is slightly darker in tone. However, as a whole, the bass is tighter, quicker, and more controlled.
  
 Due to the improved control of the mid-bass, the Silver Widow creates an airier stage structure, by reducing the warm air. In addition, there is less fill towards the lower midrange. Accordingly, notes sound more clearly with higher definition, even though they are relatively less full. As a result, there is more clean space between instruments, which benefits the separation. Simply put, the controlled mid-bass of the Silver Widow cleans up the stage, creating a more organized environment due to the clean air combined with the slightly leaner note structure. Even though the stage is not overly deep, it feels more spacious and precise.
  
 Vocals retain their density and power, but are slightly less warm and forward in accordance with the mid-bass. The vocal presentation leans towards clarity and articulation, especially due to a lift in the lower treble. This creates a slightly brighter tone, effectively boosting the overall clarity. Accordingly, the Silver Widow is more upfront in its detail presentation. The slightly brighter tone not only boosts the detail retrieval, it gives the Silver Widow an energetic and dynamic sound.
  
​  
*Silver Widow 22 AWG*
  
 The bass presentation of the 22 largely follows that of the 22 in tone and balance. However, the sub-bass hits slightly deeper, with better separation between the sub- and mid-bass. In addition, the bass hits with slightly more authority.
  
 Overall, the sound of the 22 is smoother than the 24, due to a more linear lower treble. Accordingly, there’s a more natural flow of the music, where the 24 has a bit more bite and energy, that however might result in edginess with already bright iems. Compared to the 24, vocals are slightly more natural and intimate, and fuller in size. Despite this being a silver cable, the midrange retains its density, the core body of notes, as well as its vocal power. In addition, the 22 has greater transparency than the 24, resulting in a more realistic presentation.
  
 With the 22 awg, the stage is cleaner, but the tone itself is not necessarily brighter, or at least not predominantly so. However, it will appear clearer because the stage is less warm. A better way to imagine this is to think of it as follows: when we think of a brighter sound, an analogy would be that the light is ‘turned up’, like switching on a fluorescent light. With the 22, the background light is turned on, lighting the stage on which the instruments play up, though not necessarily brightening the instruments themselves. However, as the janitor was kind of enough to turn on the light, we can more easily detect the location of the different instruments, and with greater precision. The great advantage being that despite the clarity of the presentation, the sound remains relatively smooth.
  
 ​  ​  
 ​ *Concluding thoughts*
  
 When it comes to cables, the Toxic Silver Widow 24 offers excellent value for its price. When you move higher up the ladder, cables will steadily improve in performance, but the associated cost multiplies. But I guess that's similar to iem's or headphones for that matter. I find that a cable like this is at the very peak of the price-to-performance ratio. That being said; if you’re going for a Silver Widow, I would personally recommend the 22 for the smoother, and more natural sound.
  
 As some of you may know, I will soon be running a review shootout series of 17 flagship iems. As a bonus, I will be giving away some nice stuff to whoever can predict the top 5 finishers, or at least come close enough. So far there’s a Fidue Sirius ($899) and SilverFI IEM-X cable ($496) to be claimed. However, there’s more. In collaboration with Frank, we will be including one of his 24 AWG Silver Widow’s to enter the contest! All you have to do is make a prediction.
  
_flinkenick's 2017 IEM Flagship Shootout thread_​  
  
  
​


----------



## Sound Eq

i bought a saturn cable 8 braid from yy pro audio which is stranded OCC copper
  
from the y split up to the iems it turned greenish, would that have any negative effect on sound
  
 http://www.yypa.hk/cables/saturn.html
  
i hope my tucana cable will not experience the same
  
the company yy pro audio say that is due moisture


----------



## twister6

I LOVE cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just spent two hours in a cable-heaven, testing and taking notes for my upcoming PWA 1960 2wire/4wire review.
  

  
 Above, you see AAW W900 with its stock SPC versus PWA No5, TWag v4, EA Thor II+, TWau, PWA 1960 2wire, and PWA 1960 4wire cables.  I know that majority of head-fiers are not fortunate enough to be near @Kozato Music Sanctuary store in SGP where in addition to many high end C/IEMs on display you can also preview all these cables.  So hopefully my upcoming review, once I'm done with a write up, will be able to shed some light how these cables affect/improve the sound of various flagship monitors.  Stay tuned


----------



## ezekiel77

twister6 said:


> I LOVE cables
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome. Poison, yes, but awesome poison.


----------



## jmills8

twister6 said:


> I LOVE cables    Just spent two hours in a cable-heaven, testing and taking notes for my upcoming PWA 1960 2wire/4wire review.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are more high end shops in Hong Kong and every dap, amp, ciem, iem, and cables can be demoed all day every day. Can you take closer up pics of each cable ? The pics dont do justice.


----------



## ezekiel77

jmills8 said:


> There are more high end shops in Hong Kong and every dap, amp, ciem, iem, and cables can be demoed all day every day. Can you take closer up pics of each cable ? The pics dont do justice.


 
  
 And many more brands not frequently discussed here. How's YYPro stuff?


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > I LOVE cables    Just spent two hours in a cable-heaven, testing and taking notes for my upcoming PWA 1960 2wire/4wire review.
> ...




This was a teaser picture. The focus of the review is going to be 1960 cable, and will have plenty of close ups. Regarding other shops, if I'm not mistaken PWA 1960 is exclusive to Music Sanctuary. Have you seen it being offered in any other store? The 4 wire (8 conductor) is something else!!! Indeed, some will consider it a $2k poison, while others might argue it's straight from a "snake" mouth lol!


----------



## jmills8

ezekiel77 said:


> And many more brands not frequently discussed here. How's YYPro stuff?


They have many great cables plus they have amps, mods and iems.


----------



## blazinblazin

I actually want to see.
  
 All copper VS
 All Silver VS
 All Hybrid VS
 All gold/silver VS
 All flagship VS.


----------



## jmills8

blazinblazin said:


> I actually want to see.
> 
> All copper VS
> All Silver VS
> ...


for : best sound stage? Best bass? , best mids? Easiest to use on the go ? Most neutral ?


----------



## Sound Eq

is this normal for my saturn cable from yy pro audio and how will this affect sound


----------



## blazinblazin

From what i read from ALO audio staff, no effect on sound.

It's oxidation of copper.


----------



## ironpeg

twister6 said:


> I LOVE cables
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Twister, please try the PWA 1960 4wires with Zeus-XRA. I'd love to hear how they sound. There's been a big hype in this combo in EE thread.


----------



## tim0chan

ironpeg said:


> Twister, please try the PWA 1960 4wires with Zeus-XRA. I'd love to hear how they sound. There's been a big hype in this combo in EE thread.



I've tried it at music sanctuary, it gives a massive eargasm


----------



## twister6

ironpeg said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > I LOVE cables
> ...


 
  
 I will, multi-cable rounded up with Zeus-XRA and W900.  Btw, as a spoiler, I prefer 2wire 1960 with Zeus-XRA, it gives more body to the sound, while 4wire makes sound a little too revealing for my personal taste.  With W900, I prefer 4wire over 2wire, since it tightens the bass even more, and gives upper frequencies more transparency and better resolution, including even more well controlled sparkle in the treble.  Just because something cost more, doesn't mean it will be better.  It's all about the synergy where the signature of IEM plays a very important role.  Keep in mind, this is my subjective opinion based on my individual preference.
  
 And speaking of price, I know that big elephant in the room here is how much these cables cost.  As I was corrected by @Kozato, 1960 cable could be purchased from any PWA distributor, though personally I only see Music Sanctuary being passionate about it and actively promoting it.  Now, when you look at the pricing, you get a bit of a sticker shock.  First of all, MS price is in SGP$ , not USD (that will be less when you convert it).  And second, it's MSRP price, not the actual sale price.  Thus, contact MS to find out the final sale price.


----------



## ironpeg

tim0chan said:


> I've tried it at music sanctuary, it gives a massive eargasm


 
  


twister6 said:


> I will, multi-cable rounded up with Zeus-XRA and W900.  Btw, as a spoiler, I prefer 2wire 1960 with Zeus-XRA, it gives more body to the sound, while 4wire makes sound a little too revealing for my personal taste.  With W900, I prefer 4wire over 2wire, since it tightens the bass even more, and gives upper frequencies more transparency and better resolution, including even more well controlled sparkle in the treble.  Just because something cost more, doesn't mean it will be better.  It's all about the synergy where the signature of IEM plays a very important role.  Keep in mind, this is my subjective opinion based on my individual preference.
> 
> And speaking of price, I know that big elephant in the room here is how much these cables cost.  As I was corrected by @Kozato, 1960 cable could be purchased from any PWA distributor, though personally I only see Music Sanctuary being passionate about it and actively promoting it.  Now, when you look at the pricing, you get a bit of a sticker shock.  First of all, MS price is in SGP$ , not USD (that will be less when you convert it).  And second, it's MSRP price, not the actual sale price.  Thus, contact MS to find out the final sale price.


 
 Any comparison to Effect Audio Mars, or Leonidas?


----------



## Vitor Valeri

ironpeg said:


> Any comparison to Effect Audio Mars, or Leonidas?


 
  
 Here: http://www.headfonia.com/review-effect-audio-mars-leonidas/


----------



## ironpeg

vitor valeri said:


> Here: http://www.headfonia.com/review-effect-audio-mars-leonidas/


 
 I meant Effect Audio Mars, Leonidas comparing to PWA 1960.


----------



## Overkill Red

ironpeg said:


> Any comparison to Effect Audio Mars, or Leonidas?






Well hi there!

I can indeed confirm that the 1960 4-wire with the Zeus XRA sounds phenomenal. The resolution is off the charts, though I'd suspect a lot of people would prefer the two wire version for many reasons, including the extra body that twister6 describes. 2/4/6/8 wire cables all have their own signatures, so that's something to consider as well. If anyone wants more clarification please ask away.

As for the Leonidas comparison, I currently own one as well. I'd say that the 1960 is a more resolving cable and has a wider/deeper soundstage with better tonality. However the Leonidas has this wonderful organic and punchy sound that pairs well with a lot of music. I personally prefer the 1960 but its mostly up to IEM pairing and music preference.

EDIT: used to own a Mars, but am not very confident in describing the sound anymore


----------



## ironpeg

overkill red said:


> Well hi there!
> 
> I can indeed confirm that the 1960 4-wire with the Zeus XRA sounds phenomenal. The resolution is off the charts, though I'd suspect a lot of people would prefer the two wire version for many reasons, including the extra body that twister6 describes. 2/4/6/8 wire cables all have their own signatures, so that's something to consider as well. If anyone wants more clarification please ask away.
> 
> ...


 
 Dang didn't know you have 1960, otw I would ask to try at Canjam NYC.


----------



## Rei87

overkill red said:


> Well hi there!
> 
> I can indeed confirm that the 1960 4-wire with the Zeus XRA sounds phenomenal. The resolution is off the charts, though I'd suspect a lot of people would prefer the two wire version for many reasons, including the extra body that twister6 describes. 2/4/6/8 wire cables all have their own signatures, so that's something to consider as well. If anyone wants more clarification please ask away.
> 
> ...


 


 Heys there

 Whoa....I'm frankly rather surprised that the 1960 is getting so much attention recently, which is surprising since it is a company that focuses more on quality than hype generation. 

 Anyway, I'd thought that I'd chime in on the Leonidas VS 1960 comparison, as I guess that not many other people own an 8 wire Leonidas for direct comparison. Note, that my leonidas is custom built by a third party, as I was not satisfied with Effect's build in which they refused to 1) utilize furutech plugs 2) use a gaucho braid and 3)use copper core pins. So, do take my comparison as a reference point rather than an absolute comparison. Plus, Effect brands their 8 wire leonidas as a unique, signature collection limited in its release, which makes acquiring one for comparison even harder. However, honestly, it isnt hard to realize that a single 8 wire uses the same components as 2 4 wire builds, so do the maths yourself if you still really want to land yourself one after this short comparison.

 Compared to the 1960, the Leonidas has a much more......boomy subbass texture and rumble. Some may enjoy that presence, but I personally find it overbearing as it clouds and bleeds into the details of the bass and mids. The 1960 however, has a much more organic feel, in which notes hits harders, but has a shorter decay and hence sounds much more resolving which adds to the refinement that I've come to expect of a good tube amp system. It is important to note however, that while the Leonidas wins in absolute horizontal width (which isnt much either, since it is easily bested by my 8wire plussound gold plated silver), it is beaten hands down by the 1960 in its presentation headspace depth and width (that 3D presentation). 

 At the point of the Leonidas's release, it was certainly an impressive wire. But, unfortunately, that is no longer true today. It is a wire past its prime, and all these small tweaks (adding premium parts or combinations) serve to help it hobble along rather than propel it to new heights.


----------



## jmills8

rei87 said:


> Heys there
> 
> 
> Whoa....I'm frankly rather surprised that the 1960 is getting so much attention recently, which is surprising since it is a company that focuses more on quality than hype generation.
> ...


 The Hong Kong cable is that much better than the well known Singaporian cable?


----------



## Rei87

jmills8 said:


> The Hong Kong cable is that much better than the well known Singaporian cable?


 
 I'm not sure what 'better' is, since 'better' is subjective and based on personal preference. I've met people who prefer an A5 steak well done instead of rare/med rare. So...shrugs

 Secondly, I'm not sure what cable you are specifically referring to either, and I didnt know that we have a "Singaporian cable", as Singapore, as far as I'm aware, does not manufacture any cables for audiophile comsumption. Yes, Singapore does have a couple of DIY cable makers, but all of them, company of not, source their base cable materials from the big name manufacturers. 

 You need to be much more specific in your question bro


----------



## tim0chan

jmills8 said:


> The Hong Kong cable is that much better than the well known Singaporian cable?



btw, it's Singaporean


----------



## jmills8

tim0chan said:


> btw, it's Singaporean


Thxs, Malaysia.


----------



## jmills8

rei87 said:


> I'm not sure what 'better' is, since 'better' is subjective and based on personal preference. I've met people who prefer an A5 steak well done instead of rare/med rare. So...shrugs
> 
> 
> Secondly, I'm not sure what cable you are specifically referring to either, and I didnt know that we have a "Singaporian cable", as Singapore, as far as I'm aware, does not manufacture any cables for audiophile comsumption. Yes, Singapore does have a couple of DIY cable makers, but all of them, company of not, source their base cable materials from the big name manufacturers.
> ...


 1960 made in Hong Kong and Effect are from Singapore.


----------



## blazinblazin

jmills8 said:


> The Hong Kong cable is that much better than the well known Singaporian cable?


 

 But I still don't get how a OCC Litz copper cable can cost so much.


----------



## Deezel177

jmills8 said:


> The Hong Kong cable is that much better than the well known Singaporian cable?


 
  
 The 1960s, throughout the many listens I've had with it, wowed me in ways the Leonidas was never capable of achieving. It's technically sublime and its signature is capable of endowing IEMs with transparency, resolution, and a sense of realism that no cable I've tried can surpass. That said, it is also made by PWAudio, who (as @Rei87 stated) is one to prioritise the quality of their products rather than marketing and popularity. I can attest to this from my experiences with most of PWAudio's lineup which are built and perform fantastically; the literal mountain of PWAudio cable orders rushing out of MS here in Singapore will undoubtedly agree. Effect Audio is a company with different philosophies, and though they are a more well-known brand, I've had build quality hiccups with them enough times to make me wary of ordering from them in the future. 
  


blazinblazin said:


> But I still don't get how a OCC Litz copper cable can cost so much.


 
  
 When it comes to the 1960s, you have to look beyond simply the materials it is comprised of. Its unique design consisting of a coaxial format, two different gauges and two different dielectrics for each signal path, its carbon fiber sleeving, and a multitude of other design choices and R&D all contribute to its luxurious price tag. Though, if you were to try it yourself, I'm sure the performance would speak for itself.


----------



## twister6

Hey guys/gals.  As a heads up, my full review of PWaudio Blackicon 1960s cable is up: https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/
  

  
 I'm still deciding if I will mirror the whole review on Head-fi, or just parts of it (describing sound only) here in Nic's thread where it really belongs.  But in a meantime, enjoy the full read


----------



## ChrisSC

twister6 said:


> Hey guys/gals.  As a heads up, my full review of PWaudio Blackicon 1960s cable is up: https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/


 

 ​Great review! Judging from what's written, is it fair to assume that these are your favorite of the premium cables you've tried?


----------



## jmills8

twister6 said:


> Hey guys/gals.  As a heads up, my full review of PWaudio Blackicon 1960s cable is up: https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 If an iem is bass light which version is better 2 wire or 4? If an iem is a bass canon which version is better ?


----------



## twister6

chrissc said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys/gals.  As a heads up, my full review of PWaudio Blackicon 1960s cable is up: https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/
> ...




They are, but it's a very expensive cable, in a category of ultra premiim. It pairs up really good with Zeus and W900, while i have other cables paired up with other iems and happy with that synergy (sem9 with Thor II+, u12 with twau, etc).


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys/gals.  As a heads up, my full review of PWaudio Blackicon 1960s cable is up: https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/
> ...




It's all a matter of a personal taste and which way you want to go. Zeus has a neutral bass, so call it bass light, and i prefer 2w with it, while w900 hybrid has a hard hitting bass and i prefer 4w in that pair up. I know there are some guidelines of how different cable materials affect the sound, but it will vary from iem to iem depending on a synergy of pair up.. I'll tell you this, at CanJam NYC i tried TIA Forte with 2w and 4w, and 4w made mids a bit too harsh for my taste, so i liked 2w better in that pair up.


----------



## jmills8

twister6 said:


> It's all a matter of a personal taste and which way you want to go. Zeus has a neutral bass, so call it bass light, and i prefer 2w with it, while w900 hybrid has a hard hitting bass and i prefer 4w in that pair up. I know there are some guidelines of how different cable materials affect the sound, but it will vary from iem to iem depending on a synergy of pair up.. I'll tell you this, at CanJam NYC i tried TIA Forte with 2w and 4w, and 4w made mids a bit too harsh for my taste, so i liked 2w better in that pair up.


 2 wire with the w900 gives it more bass ?


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > It's all a matter of a personal taste and which way you want to go. Zeus has a neutral bass, so call it bass light, and i prefer 2w with it, while w900 hybrid has a hard hitting bass and i prefer 4w in that pair up. I know there are some guidelines of how different cable materials affect the sound, but it will vary from iem to iem depending on a synergy of pair up.. I'll tell you this, at CanJam NYC i tried TIA Forte with 2w and 4w, and 4w made mids a bit too harsh for my taste, so i liked 2w better in that pair up.
> ...




The interesting thing, to my ears so obviously subjective, the bass was not really enhanced that much, but due to mids being a little brighter and slightly more forward the bass quality (and some quantity) scaled up. I think it's all a matter of a perception since now you have a better contrast between lows and mids. I do hear mid-bass punch better defined, more focused, cleaner, overall improved with 4w and W900.


----------



## spw1880

EA thor silver II+ retermination and visual upgrade.
Connectors: eidolic te copper mmcx, furutech ft735sm

Y-splitter: eidolic

Chin slidder: DIY leather by Valencia Wijaya

Retermination work: herry widjaya

Excellent aesthetics..thanks to herry and valencia.


----------



## spw1880




----------



## jmills8

I just bought the PW 1960 4 Wire cable.


----------



## jmills8

Spent three hours demoing the PW Audio 1960 2 Wire and 4 wire and their Gold cable.


----------



## spw1880

jmills8 said:


> I just bought the PW 1960 4 Wire cable.




Sweeett..
How is the pair up with the asg?


----------



## jmills8

spw1880 said:


> Sweeett..
> How is the pair up with the asg?


ASG 2.5 , 2 wire was clear but more bassy with the 2.5. The 2.5 already has more than enough bass, so I ordered the 1960 4 wire. The 4 wire similar bass but a much more open sound stage to counter the strong bass.


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> spw1880 said:
> 
> 
> > Sweeett..
> ...


 
  
 Though I don't have ASG2.5, I'm glad we are hearing similar things! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Now, I understand why you were asking about 2w vs 4w in terms of a bass.  I believe you are hearing the same changes between 2w/4w with ASG2.5 as I have with W900.


----------



## jmills8

twister6 said:


> Though I don't have ASG2.5, I'm glad we are hearing similar things!    Now, I understand why you were asking about 2w vs 4w in terms of a bass.  I believe you are hearing the same changes between 2w/4w with ASG2.5 as I have with W900.


Yep, theres a big difference. I wonder how the 2 wire would sound with the CF Vega iem.


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> twister6 said:
> 
> 
> > Though I don't have ASG2.5, I'm glad we are hearing similar things!
> ...


 
  
 If I get 2pin to mmcx adapter, maybe I can try it


----------



## spw1880

@jmills8
@twister6

With such amazing feedback on the 1960s sonic qualities..has gotten me really curious. How is the ergonomics of the cable if i may ask..would you consider it a stiff cable comparing with the other cables that you own?

Thanx


----------



## jmills8

spw1880 said:


> @jmills8
> @twister6
> 
> With such amazing feedback on the 1960s sonic qualities..has gotten me really curious. How is the ergonomics of the cable if i may ask..would you consider it a stiff cable comparing with the other cables that you own?
> ...


 In my opinion, very flexible.


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> spw1880 said:
> 
> 
> > @jmills8
> ...


 
  
 I agree.  And as you can see from my review, it's not a very heavy cable (28g 2wire/4conductors and 40g 4wire/8conductors).


----------



## sawrym

Seems like very interesting cable indeed (PW Audio 1960).  How does the 2wire  compare to the Leonidas and Thor II from Effect Audio?


----------



## ranfan

-deleted-


----------



## mxroadie

Hi

Thanks for this very informative thread! Would you guys say there are differences in sound signature when you compare a litz and stranded cable? E.g. a silver litz and silver stranded cable. 

I am looking for a cable for my s-em9 that will lower the low end and accentuate the treble. I am under the impression that a litz silver is thicker at the lower frequencies which I am trying to avoid.


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for this very informative thread! Would you guys say there are differences in sound signature when you compare a litz and stranded cable? E.g. a silver litz and silver stranded cable.
> 
> I am looking for a cable for my s-em9 that will lower the low end and accentuate the treble. I am under the impression that a litz silver is thicker at the lower frequencies which I am trying to avoid.


Silver plated Copper


----------



## blazinblazin

mxroadie said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for this very informative thread! Would you guys say there are differences in sound signature when you compare a litz and stranded cable? E.g. a silver litz and silver stranded cable.
> 
> I am looking for a cable for my s-em9 that will lower the low end and accentuate the treble. I am under the impression that a litz silver is thicker at the lower frequencies which I am trying to avoid.




You mean less low more high?


----------



## jmills8

blazinblazin said:


> You mean less low more high?


the ones I demoed or bought it gave deeper bass and brighter treble. But I had pure copper litz that did the same.


----------



## mxroadie

blazinblazin said:


> You mean less low more high?




Yep, less low more high. I prefer a bright and airy signature for heavy metal. 

Interesting, will have to check out spc. I thought a spc would sound closer to copper


----------



## mxroadie

jmills8 said:


> the ones I demoed or bought it gave deeper bass and brighter treble. But I had pure copper litz that did the same.




Which brand is that?


----------



## blazinblazin

I bought a silver gold Alloy that retains the lows of a concert hall like a copper cable and gives more highs and air.


----------



## blazinblazin

mxroadie said:


> Yep, less low more high. I prefer a bright and airy signature for heavy metal.
> 
> Interesting, will have to check out spc. I thought a spc would sound closer to copper




Then SPC or Silver will be your choice.


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> Which brand is that?


DHC Fusion.


----------



## mxroadie

Is it true that the number of cores determines the soundstage? More cores = wider soundstage


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> Is it true that the number of cores determines the soundstage? More cores = wider soundstage


Not always.


----------



## blazinblazin

It depends on how they use the thickness of the strands to combine into the cable.

So no one company cable is the same although same type of material.

Need to give everyone a test.


----------



## mxroadie

blazinblazin said:


> Then SPC or Silver will be your choice.




Does it matter whether it is litz or stranded?


----------



## blazinblazin

mxroadie said:


> Does it matter whether it is litz or stranded?




I dont think so important.

From what i read thicker strand gives you smooth sound, thinner gives you the faster impact of sound.

Normally each cable maker have their own recipe of thick and thin strands mix.

Litz normally consist of coated strands in a cable to reduce skin effect.

Someone correct me if i am wrong.


----------



## fzman

My feeling is that cables are not, nor should be tone controls or bandaids.  Any cable that can dramatically alter tonal balance is broken.  Not trolling, I really feel that both of these claims are true.
  
 That said, buy what makes you happy.


----------



## blazinblazin

Most important is to test it yourself before buying.
  
 That way you will know which 1 suits your needs more and whether it cause any difference with your IEM.


----------



## mxroadie

fzman said:


> My feeling is that cables are not, nor should be tone controls or bandaids.  Any cable that can dramatically alter tonal balance is broken.  Not trolling, I really feel that both of these claims are true.
> 
> That said, buy what makes you happy.




I agree. My iems don't change in tonality or sound signature with a cable change. That said, some cables do accentuate, say, the treble; something already there but not prominently so.


----------



## chaiyuta

Does anyone know some news about Effect Audio?


----------



## Rei87

chaiyuta said:


> Does anyone know some news about Effect Audio?


 

 Probably not the best place to ask. This is for high-end cables in general; you might want to ask within the Effect thread itself. cheers


----------



## twister6

chaiyuta said:


> Does anyone know some news about Effect Audio?


 
  
 Soon, they will be releasing new hybrid cables.  3 new prototypes were shown at CanJam NYC (very nice pliable cables, looks great too, impressive sound after a brief testing, and reasonable pricing); hopefully they will have more news about the release at CanJam SGP.
  
@EffectAudio : Eric, do you have any updates on the new hybrids?


----------



## ranfan

wow, gonna check at canjam sg


----------



## chaiyuta

twister6 : Thanks for insider info. I saw new post at his facebook page. Once you said hybrid, I assume that there are Gold plated Copper, SPC 2+ and X plated copper + silver.


----------



## Deezel177

twister6 said:


> Soon, they will be releasing new hybrid cables.  3 new prototypes were shown at CanJam NYC (very nice pliable cables, looks great too, impressive sound after a brief testing, and reasonable pricing); hopefully they will have more news about the release at CanJam SGP.
> 
> @EffectAudio : Eric, do you have any updates on the new hybrids?


 
  
 Is it the Leonidas + Ares/Thor II hybrids? If so, that'd be a disappointing resolution to such a tantalising tease.


----------



## blazinblazin

I still prefer pure 4wire Leonidas than the 2wire leonidas x 2wire ThorII Hybrid.


----------



## ironpeg

chaiyuta said:


> Does anyone know some news about Effect Audio?


 
 I think it's the 3rd prototype shown in Canjam NYC. (Heritage series)
 It would not be flagship cable but definitely worth the price.


----------



## Deezel177

ironpeg said:


> I think it's the 3rd prototype shown in Canjam NYC. (Heritage series)
> It would not be flagship cable but definitely worth the price.


 
  
 I'm all for something different from Effect Audio. I feel some rejuvenation is what their product line currently needs.


----------



## chaiyuta

I think that the development of cable technology quite slow and now It seems it is clogged. Unlike CPU technology, they have a clear roadmap. If today is dual core, next year will be quad core then octa core and Xmulitplier core. Nowadays I only see every famous cable brand having presented 7N XXOCC for many consecutive years. Recently, I see some new kind of hybrid cables. I have no idea how about future of high-end cable market.


----------



## ironpeg

chaiyuta said:


> I think that the development of cable technology quite slow and now It seems it is clogged. Unlike CPU technology, they have a clear roadmap. If today is dual core, next year will be quad core then octa core and Xmulitplier core. Nowadays I only see every famous cable brand having presented 7N XXOCC for many consecutive years. Recently, I see some new kind of hybrid cables. I have no idea how about future of high-end cable market.


 
 Cable technology reaches its limit unless someone can manufacture cable that has no skin effect. Then we might open a new cable paradigm.


----------



## chaiyuta

ironpeg said:


> Cable technology reaches its limit unless someone can manufacture cable that has no skin effect. Then we might open a new cable paradigm.


 
 Wow sound so ideal. It's still nonetheless damn good if occured. I'm look forward to seeing and demoing new line-up of famous brands. This year may becomes a Hybrid Year. Brimar Cable has a plan to release new hybrid cables as well.


----------



## EffectAudio

deezel177 said:


> Is it the Leonidas + Ares/Thor II hybrids? If so, that'd be a disappointing resolution to such a tantalising tease.


 

 Quote: 





twister6 said:


> Soon, they will be releasing new hybrid cables.  3 new prototypes were shown at CanJam NYC (very nice pliable cables, looks great too, impressive sound after a brief testing, and reasonable pricing); hopefully they will have more news about the release at CanJam SGP.
> 
> @EffectAudio : Eric, do you have any updates on the new hybrids?


 

 Alex~ You're right.

 We'll be releasing special variant hybrid over at Singapore CanJam. It will be a continuation of the "Heritage Series"  which was launched previous year. "Heritage Series" - Leonidas, is what differentiated us from others. With it's unique geometry and structure as well as premium packaging, Leonidas got pretty popular and Effect Audio got unto a global platform.. (We have all our customer/friends support for this, and im very appreciative of it) 

 This Special hybrid's prototype was based & built upon one of the 3 prototype cables we brought to NYC CanJam. Each with individually unique geometry & materials design. However, results from our NYC show feedbacks pointed to 1 specific prototype in landslide choice. We were pretty taken aback ourselves - All Feedback Forms pointed to a certain prototype! We knew it was "The Cable" to release. Therefore, in the tight timeline between NYC to SG CanJam, Suyang has worked extensively to refine & tweak this little guy till satisfaction.

 Expect the sweet swe

 A official release will be coming soon... Meanwhile, a sneak peak! 


  
  


chaiyuta said:


> I think that the development of cable technology quite slow and now It seems it is clogged. Unlike CPU technology, they have a clear roadmap. If today is dual core, next year will be quad core then octa core and Xmulitplier core. Nowadays I only see every famous cable brand having presented 7N XXOCC for many consecutive years. Recently, I see some new kind of hybrid cables. I have no idea how about future of high-end cable market.


 

 And we're working on some new developments, Lets see if something happens in June 17' or CanJam London 

 Best Wishes, 
 Eric


----------



## ironpeg

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






effectaudio said:


> Alex~ You're right.
> 
> We'll be releasing special variant hybrid over at Singapore CanJam. It will be a continuation of the "Heritage Series"  which was launched previous year. "Heritage Series" - Leonidas, is what differentiated us from others. With it's unique geometry and structure as well as premium packaging, Leonidas got pretty popular and Effect Audio got unto a global platform.. (We have all our customer/friends support for this, and im very appreciative of it)
> 
> ...


 
  


effectaudio said:


> Alex~ You're right.
> 
> We'll be releasing special variant hybrid over at Singapore CanJam. It will be a continuation of the "Heritage Series"  which was launched previous year. "Heritage Series" - Leonidas, is what differentiated us from others. With it's unique geometry and structure as well as premium packaging, Leonidas got pretty popular and Effect Audio got unto a global platform.. (We have all our customer/friends support for this, and im very appreciative of it)
> 
> ...


 
  


 Bring it to Canjam RMAF too. I'll be there!


----------



## Jalo

chaiyuta said:


> I think that the development of cable technology quite slow and now It seems it is clogged. Unlike CPU technology, they have a clear roadmap. If today is dual core, next year will be quad core then octa core and Xmulitplier core. Nowadays I only see every famous cable brand having presented 7N XXOCC for many consecutive years. Recently, I see some new kind of hybrid cables. I have no idea how about future of high-end cable market.




When I see hybrid cables, I always wonder what does that means? Let say if silver has better conductivity than copper, then in a hybrid condition, will the electrons traveling on the silver portion of the cable goes faster than the copper portion? Will that create a coherence problem? And when we talk about metal's conductivity, what are we talking about? Does conductivity mean the speed the electron is traveling? Or the fullness of the bandwidth? Or certain bandwidth and that is why copper does better with low frequency and silver with high frequency? I have just purchased the Final Audio Design's Lab 2 and the stock cable that comes with the phone claims to be almost as fast as 90 percent of the speed of light and that it is used in supercomputer etc. So is as far as cable is concern, is the speed the only factor? Or does other factors are at play also, if so, what are the other factors? I am talking headphone cables and not power cables and under 5-6 feet. Also, for SPC, and since signal travels on the surface of the conductor, does it matter what silver is plated over? Like to hear some opinions from cable design people.


----------



## chaiyuta

My thought is each metal have some specific good & bad features on Sound Quality. To make sound more tasty, the "just right" combination should bring good features on each metals and eliminate bad features on each metals. The best current transmitter may not bring the "right" sound for every people and every IEMs. To broaden variety of choices to customers, hybrid cables are occurred. However this process seems like trial and error process. It may be not called "Technology Development". (Anyhow, I still prefers only one pure metal cables rather than hybrid cables, whilst Others do not.)


----------



## damobananna

Hi sorry for the intrusion but had any one tried a brand called ranko acustics? i just bought a "silver" 8n from ebay at 180 aus
  
 seems a bit cheep
  
 thanks


----------



## lookingforIEMs

damobananna said:


> Hi sorry for the intrusion but had any one tried a brand called ranko acustics? i just bought a "silver" 8n from ebay at 180 aus
> 
> seems a bit cheep
> 
> thanks




Ranko acoustics do make DIY parts like headphone jacks and are even used in tralucent audio cables... so I guess that can provide some credibility.


I have no idea whether they make cables or not.


Although, I do know of some DIYers in my local audio scene that can make cheap silver cables too ( around 180~ sgd/aud )


----------



## damobananna

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/262589375330?ul_noapp=true


----------



## EagleWings

jalo said:


> When I see hybrid cables, I always wonder what does that means? Let say if silver has better conductivity than copper, then in a hybrid condition, will the electrons traveling on the silver portion of the cable goes faster than the copper portion? Will that create a coherence problem? And when we talk about metal's conductivity, what are we talking about? Does conductivity mean the speed the electron is traveling? Or the fullness of the bandwidth? Or certain bandwidth and that is why copper does better with low frequency and silver with high frequency? I have just purchased the Final Audio Design's Lab 2 and the stock cable that comes with the phone claims to be almost as fast as 90 percent of the speed of light and that it is used in supercomputer etc. So is as far as cable is concern, is the speed the only factor? Or does other factors are at play also, if so, what are the other factors? I am talking headphone cables and not power cables and under 5-6 feet. Also, for SPC, and since signal travels on the surface of the conductor, does it matter what silver is plated over? Like to hear some opinions from cable design people.


 
  
 The "90% speed of light" claim, I think, refers to the speed of the electromagnetic field or the electrical signal. As for the velocity of the electrons, the only velocity of the electron, that applies for this situation is the Drift Velocity. A free electron in vacuum can be accelerated to very high speeds, but that doesn't apply here.
  
 The value of drift velocity of electrons in a conductor, is several orders smaller than the value of the speed of light. Although the drift velocity can have a direct relationship with the speed of electrical signal, it is not a direct measure of the speed of the electrical signal flowing through the conductor. Meaning, Drift Velocity of Electron in a Particular Cable <> Velocity of the Electrical Signal in the cable.
  
 So the 90% speed of light doesn't say much, unless described relative to the speed of the electrical signal, traveling in a regular IEM upgrade cable. For all you know, these regular upgrade cables might be conducting the electrical signal at, 89% or even 94% the speed of light. An electrical signal can travel at a speed closer to light's speed in a very-high-gauge ultra pure copper cable.
  
 Conductivity is simply, the number of electrons flowing through the cross section of a conductor, at a given point of time, when a potential difference is applied across the 2 ends. Greater the number of electrons flowing through the conductor for a given potential difference, means the cable is a better conductor. As far as my understanding goes, this is the basis, from which the cable manufacturers work on, to improve cable's performance in the Headphone/IEM cable world and, not the speed of the signal itself, (although, both can be directly relative).
  
 I know you have mentioned about signal traveling on the surface. But I won't talk about that as I am not familiar on that subject. But my text above is simply to say that, IMO, the speed may not have much to do, than the conductivity itself.


----------



## Jalo

@EagleWings, thanks for the thoughts. It seems like conductivity matter as they keep referring back to the metal chart.


----------



## audionewbi

*Introducing OC Studio: *
I consider myself a cable skeptic however one with an open mind and as a result of my quest into cable I have stumbled upon a cable maker whose name I heard a few years ago but I forgot for some reason. Lately I have been obsessed in finding the best MMCX available in market and all result indicated ATL to be that and only one cable maker utilized it: OC Studio. As a result I decided to continue my quest by testing their best copper and silver cable albeit this is not his flagship. After placing my order, which was straight forward I waited for my order to be made. I had a number of a very positive discussion with the owner of the company during the waiting period ranging from how he started this hobby to complaining about high  cable cost and his testing mechanism I was confident about my purchase. I paid a total of 15000 Taiwan Dollar which roughly coverts to 642 AUD(please note this was a promotional deal and the normal price is 16247) . This includes 8 core, best mmcx which sale for 62 AUD a pair (times that by two), EMS express shipping and a 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm adapter that not in the picture. Considering how some brand just charge that for a copper cable the price is well reasonable but I guess all this will matter once I get to learn more about the sound.

I just got the cabe, I need to spend more time with it to get used to various sound. I will be testing it with my HUM Pristine which is my reference as it response well with cable and I also use T8iE as I find its bass alters from cable to cable. 

From pictures it can be seen built is top notch, accessories is best I've seen and basically if any other brand was to make this they would ask for two to three times of what they are charging. 

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/OriginalCableStudio/










[COLOR=FF4400]
[/COLOR]






As there is no thread about this company I thought I post here unless there is interest for me to make an impression thread for it which in that case I will gladly do so.


----------



## blazinblazin

How do you buy from them?


----------



## audionewbi

Contact them via fb


----------



## tangents

Are the OC cables Litz enameled?


----------



## chaiyuta

audionewbi : Look forward to your impression soon especially the Zeus UEX cable.


----------



## blazinblazin

audionewbi said:


> Contact them via fb




How long is the waiting time??


----------



## ranfan

sharing some pictures from canjam sg 
  

  

  

  

  

  
 sorry for the potato camera 
  
 (that brimar gold cable, fourth, costs $4-5k. a friend of a friend of mine bought it cash on the table. he let me try afterwards. and it was simply stunning. on par if not better than labkable titan, $2,5k)
  
 if anyone interested in buying a labkable, could contact me. i've spoken with the owner/founder, and he's willing to ease me a good price (but only for a week)


----------



## chaiyuta

ranfan : Is that brimar cable a new model? If yes, Does it just on par with labkable titan (cheaper price tag)?


----------



## Forty6

These are heavy wires .


----------



## ranfan

chaiyuta said:


> ranfan : Is that brimar cable a new model? If yes, Does it just on par with labkable titan (cheaper price tag)?


 

 in terms of value. it is simply not. titan is twice better. but if you really want to look for value, then takumi or samurai would be recommendable. in terms of sound quality, the brimar gold cable wins, simply because of their higher purity. the highly pure sound that the brimar cable has, creates this realistic sound. the guy who bought it said, "it makes the music alive." that is also why he bought. i like the titan better, it is not as heavy and sounds extremely good already (obviously, given the 2,5k usd price). very clear.


----------



## audionewbi

blazinblazin said:


> How long is the waiting time??


mine was two weeks.


----------



## audionewbi

One thing we all should be asking all high end cable maker is a certificate of authenticity for the cables not from them but the company who actually makes the cable. How often do we see that?


----------



## mxroadie

Anyone here has experience with both Norne audio silvergarde and Rhapsodio RSD silver to make a comparison? Specifically in soundstage, overall resolution and treble extension.

Thanks!


----------



## ranfan

@flinkenick sammy says hi 
  

  
 (the iem is rhapsodio 'extreme', one ? driver. only 5 ever made)


----------



## flinkenick

I missed a bit of the discussion since I unsubscribed from all activity except my shootout thread a while back to down regulate my time on Head Fi. Ironically, a large portion was about the 1960's cables that I was also listening to haha. 
  
 Nice to see it's getting attention, I understand it is growing in popularity in Singapore at least. Anyways, I have just finished completing my review including some nice comparisons. I hope you enjoy it. 
  
http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audios-1960-cables/


----------



## ranfan

is it true that; if you change cables often, plugging in/out many times. and with enough times, it degrades the socket/pin, influencing conductivity and sound?


----------



## jmills8

ranfan said:


> is it true that; if you change cables often, plugging in/out many times. and with enough times, it degrades the socket/pin, influencing conductivity and sound?


gets loose.


----------



## ranfan

flinkenick said:


> I missed a bit of the discussion since I unsubscribed from all activity except my shootout thread a while back to down regulate my time on Head Fi. Ironically, a large portion was about the 1960's cables that I was also listening to haha.
> 
> Nice to see it's getting attention, I understand it is growing in popularity in Singapore at least. Anyways, I have just finished completing my review including some nice comparisons. I hope you enjoy it.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audios-1960-cables/


 
 reviewed like a surgeon. dissecting, separating all parts. covering everything like a wind breezing or water flowing. all naturally, talentedly. astounding, 5/5


----------



## flinkenick

ranfan said:


> reviewed like a surgeon. dissecting, separating all parts. covering everything like a wind breezing or water flowing. all naturally, talentedly. astounding, 5/5


 
 Thanks for the nice words, that's very kind of you.
  


ranfan said:


> is it true that; if you change cables often, plugging in/out many times. and with enough times, it degrades the socket/pin, influencing conductivity and sound?


 
 I cable roll non stop, when I finish listening to an iem I always detach the cable because I don't know what I'll listen to next. While it intuitively makes a lot of sense that the connection should become looser, I can't say I've experienced it with my iems; even the ones I've been using for a longer time. But it might vary with others.


----------



## Rei87

flinkenick said:


> I missed a bit of the discussion since I unsubscribed from all activity except my shootout thread a while back to down regulate my time on Head Fi. Ironically, a large portion was about the 1960's cables that I was also listening to haha.
> 
> Nice to see it's getting attention, I understand it is growing in popularity in Singapore at least. Anyways, I have just finished completing my review including some nice comparisons. I hope you enjoy it.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audios-1960-cables/


 


 I hated that review......now, I'm 2 grand poorer because a certain black wire in 4 braid configuration is going to be added into my arsenal....

 You, sir, represent bad news for my wallet.


----------



## ChrisSC

@Nick: which iems did you use In your 60s cable review? Did some have better synergy with the 2wire than the 4 or did you find the 4wire better with everything tested?


----------



## ezekiel77

ranfan said:


> @flinkenick sammy says hi
> 
> (the iem is rhapsodio 'extreme', one dynamic driver. only 5 ever made)


 
  
 According to FB it's planar. Did anyone hear it?


----------



## jmills8




----------



## flinkenick

chrissc said:


> @Nick: which iems did you use In your 60s cable review? Did some have better synergy with the 2wire than the 4 or did you find the 4wire better with everything tested?


 
 Hello Chris. I've had the 2-wire for about 3-4 weeks, so I tested it with quite a few iems. Because it is a predominantly characterised by a warmer tone, I initially had a natural inclination to test its synergy with brighter iems. So I tested it with NT6pro, Samba, Galaxy, but of course also more midcentric iems like Zeus or Prelude, and a few that are in between like S-EM9 and W900.
  
 For understanding some basic principles of its synergy when it comes to harshness/smoothness, it is important to understand that the 2-wire creates its clarity by boosting the upper midrange rather than the treble. If we compare the 2-wire to the plusSound GPC; the GPC is also warm in tone and smooth, but it has a more linear treble which is not necessarily attenuated. So the 2-wire is warmer than the GPC, but accordingly, the GPC's tone is more accurate as it relatively closer to neutral. So generally, the 2-wire is smoother if you are looking to attenuate the treble with a brighter pairing. _However_, when paired with iems that already boost the clarity in their signature by an upper midrange peak like Samba or Galaxy, the GPC will actually be smoother than the 2-wire.
  
 The 4-wire I only received last week, so I tested it with less iems because I only needed to add on the difference as I had already written the first part of the review, and was familiar with the basic sound. As I repeatedly told Calvin, I was shocked to hear the difference was so big between the two cables. They share some basic principles, but the 4-wires tone and technical ability is very different. An analogy would be like listening to two iems from a manufacturer that has a strong house sound, like EE Athena and Zeus-XIV. In this case, both share a similar midcentric tuning with moderate sparkle, but Zeus' midrange is different and its resolution and transparency are of course superior (note: this is just an analogy, I've never actually heard Athena).
  
 The 2-wire's main advantage is that it is overall smoother than the 4-wire, both the (lower) midrange and treble. The 4-wire has significantly more clarity due to its transparency and treble sparkle, but the sound comes through very 'pure', there's no safety veil so to speak. As we all know, there are a lot of differences between people's preferences and sensitivities. My preference is as follows: tonal accuracy, and highly technical sound. When it comes to sensitivity, I am extremely fortunate that I have very little problems with harshness or brightness.  
  
 So to make this long story short, I personally have a strong preference for the 4-wire. But, my point is that this is personal preference; because there are cases where someone or some pairing will be better with the 2-wire, as Alex for instance has also pointed out (he is more sensitive than I am).
  


rei87 said:


> I hated that review......now, I'm 2 grand poorer because a certain black wire in 4 braid configuration is going to be added into my arsenal....
> 
> You, sir, represent bad news for my wallet.


 
 I should apologise, I forgot to add the disclaimer: _reader discretion advised, if you already own or are interested in the 2-wire you might not want to read this._


----------



## Kerouac

flinkenick said:


> I should apologise, *I forgot to add the disclaimer: *_*reader discretion advised, if you* already own or *are interested in the 2-wire you might not want to read this.*_


 
  
 Yeah...right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 luckily(?) my budget's holding me back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway...another great (detailed) review which I enjoyed reading.
 Cheers mate!


----------



## Rei87

flinkenick said:


> I should apologise, I forgot to add the disclaimer: _reader discretion advised, if you already own or are interested in the 2-wire you might not want to read this._


 

 Nah, dont. The 1960 is going onto my DITA dream. That holographic presentation you described, is something I can personally attest to, having already heard first hand how the 4 wire sounds. But, your review was what solidifed my decision to go ahead with the purchase. 

 the 1960 will complement the Dream and enhance it so well in a way no other wires, in my humble opinion, can match. Cant wait for my 1960 to arrive, and slap it onto my Dream.


----------



## flinkenick

rei87 said:


> Nah, dont. The 1960 is going onto my DITA dream. That holographic presentation you described, is something I can personally attest to, having already heard first hand how the 4 wire sounds. But, your review was what solidifed my decision to go ahead with the purchase.
> 
> the 1960 will complement the Dream and enhance it so well in a way no other wires, in my humble opinion, can match. Cant wait for my 1960 to arrive, and slap it onto my Dream.


 

 The Dream + 4-wire is a very good combo. Its stage is a good deal airer, it's less bassy but still impactful, and it is of course significantly more transparent overall. Also, its vocal presentation is more natural, clearer at least.


----------



## ironpeg

Spoiler: Just gonna hide it.



Quote: 





flinkenick said:


> Hello Chris. I've had the 2-wire for about 3-4 weeks, so I tested it with quite a few iems. Because it is a predominantly characterised by a warmer tone, I initially had a natural inclination to test its synergy with brighter iems. So I tested it with NT6pro, Samba, Galaxy, but of course also more midcentric iems like Zeus or Prelude, and a few that are in between like S-EM9 and W900.
> 
> For understanding some basic principles of its synergy when it comes to harshness/smoothness, it is important to understand that the 2-wire creates its clarity by boosting the upper midrange rather than the treble. If we compare the 2-wire to the plusSound GPC; the GPC is also warm in tone and smooth, but it has a more linear treble which is not necessarily attenuated. So the 2-wire is warmer than the GPC, but accordingly, the GPC's tone is more accurate as it relatively closer to neutral. So generally, the 2-wire is smoother if you are looking to attenuate the treble with a brighter pairing. _However_, when paired with iems that already boost the clarity in their signature by an upper midrange peak like Samba or Galaxy, the GPC will actually be smoother than the 2-wire.
> 
> ...








>


 
 That makes me wanna have both 2,4 wires.


----------



## flinkenick

*A primer on high-end cables*  
_*Introduction*_
  
 This article can be viewed as a brief discussion on the performance of cables throughout different tiers. This is just to provide a rough picture of the world of high-end upgrade cables, based on my experience. I can imagine that there’s a healthy skepticism about the actual increase in performance when you move up higher in quality. And I’m not referring to cable skeptics – I have no interest in ‘converting’ anyone, or starting a cable discussion. My goal is to provide a bit of information for those already interested. As I’ve been a cable enthusiast for a couple of years now, I’ve been able to experience a relatively large number of upgrade cables (if I had to guess it would be somewhere between 40 – 50).
  
 I can look back at what I’ve experienced while gradually moving up through the world of cables, while also steadily learning to understand different components of analyzing sound. I too was very skeptic that cables could improve – and consistently remained skeptical, even though I gradually experienced an improvement at different price points. The problem is that it is very hard to imagine something beyond your own experience (Plato’s Cave, anyone?).
  
 Before I start, I would like to point out that I’m not advocating that anyone should buy a high-end cable. I find it regrettable that cables are incredibly expensive, and that the industry has taken a turn to the worse when it comes to increasing prices. I have been fortunate to receive samples on a few occasions, but in the majority of cases I paid for them myself, so I am very much in touch with this issue. However, as I will argue in a bit I don’t believe this is an issue specific to cables; rather, the increasing price you need to pay for an improvement in performance is very similar if not identical to that of iems.
  
_*Do upgrade cables really work?*_
  
 There’s a very wide variety of cables in different price ranges available, with most ranging up from $100 up to $2500 at least, and some even further. But, there’s still very little information on the general performance of cables, and especially how this steadily increases throughout different price ranges. This is of course can largely be attributed to the lingering skepticism throughout the West towards cables. The majority of people in the US and Europe do not believe in cables, which is reflected in sites where we come to meet such as Head-Fi.org. So it requires a big leap of faith to lay down $300 or more, especially since there are almost no places to demo cables – and understandably so. So I imagine that even when people tentatively want to try a cable but are naturally still hesitant, they either go for a $100 cable or just switch stock cables to experiment. Consequentially, they come to the conclusion that they just wasted their precious earned money since they can’t hear a difference. I’ll tell you now – even for trained ears it is _extremely_ difficult to analyze and compare cheap cables. Due to the quality of the material, the extension is not very good so notes are more fuzzy and harder to compare, plus in most cases manufacturers use very similar copper or SPC wires.
  
 Our world view is determined by the culture we live in, and shaped by the people around us. In Eastern Asia, the situation is reversed. If you’d take a look at Asian fora such as andaudio.com or erji.net, the general consensus is that cables do play a role in determining aspects of the signature or performance, and there’s little debate on the issue. Accordingly, more people find it worthwhile to invest in upgrade cables. The difference can at least partially be explained by the fact that cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore have evolved into major audio hotspots, where you can extensively demo every piece of equipment including cables. However, while speculative, we can also take the characteristics of the type of music people listen to in different cultures into account, such as range, pitch, flow and rhythm (Born & Hesmondhalgh, 2000), as well as innate biological and cultural differences that shape our hearing, such as that Asian voices tend have a slightly higher pitch and different rhythm (e.g. Brunelle & Kirby, 2016; Ohara, 1999). If we consider that one of the most fundamental improvements of a high-end cable is its effect on the highest frequencies due to properties of the wires (the highest frequencies roll of strongest with lower quality), the connection with a sensitivity towards higher pitch is again speculative, but not unthinkable.
  
  
​  
  
_*Increasing performance of iems*_
  
 The general concept of diminishing returns is well-known. When it comes to iems, you can get a great sounding iem for $300; some examples are the Dunu DN2000j or Oriveti Primacy. These iems are a good deal better than their $100 entry level counterparts. When you experience such an iem for the first time, it’s hard to imagine you’re missing something, especially after already witnessing such an improvement from the lower segment. The bass, mids, and treble are all there, the stage is large enough for the instrument positioning, and the presentation as a whole feels fairly detailed. Nevertheless, when you move up to a $1000 iem, the difference can feel quite significant. The stage is larger, the midrange might have more body, and the level of detail again improves. The whole image gains in clarity, often feeling like a ‘veil has been removed’. Yet, when you move on to a TOTL $1600 ciem, there’s usually no doubt there’s again a significant improvement: the depth of the stage might result in a more effortless separation, and the resolution relies on its treble extension rather than the brightness of the signature, so the tone might be more natural, while the presentation is nevertheless more detailed (I wrote a piece about the difference between $300 and $1600 iem a while back on Headfonics).
  
_*Increasing performance of cables*_
  
 While it’s hard to imagine, similar incremental improvements can more or less be experiences with cables. Admittedly, while the cost for improvement might be a $100 in the lower segment, it rapidly climes with steps of $500 shortly after – just as we’ve seen with iems.
  
_<$350_
 You can get a solid cable for roughly $150-$200. Some examples are the *Effect Audio Ares II *or* PWaudio’s no 5*. Depending on the listener, the effects might vary from negligible, to having a nice moderate effect to polish up an iem’s signature, by adding a bit of warmth or extension for example. Depending on the listener, the difference might be considered around 5%-10% (just as a rough estimation to paint a picture). But when you arrive at a quality $350 silver cable, the effect should be more clearly noticeable, while still remaining affordable. The extension will be slightly better, possible resulting in better transparency, resolution, or airiness. Sometimes silver cables might be brighter, resulting in more apparent clarity. We might think of this effect as contributing to 20% of the sound. This range is what I would consider the cable equivalent of an iem like the DN2000j or Primacy. Significantly better than a $150 cable, but after this point the price to increase its performance will start to steeply rise. Excellent value.
  
_$700 - $1000_
 Moving up the area of $700 - $1000 cables, the price range I consider ‘TOTL’ for cables. Similar to $1600 TOTL ciems, there’s a wide range of cables that each have their own signature, performance, as well as ergonomics. They’re all very different, but generally should have similar performance when all aspects are averaged together. Much like ciems, some focus on tone, resolution, stage, or certain aspects of the signature (bass, mids or treble). And it’s almost always pick 2 or so – you can’t have it all. When we move into this range, we’ve made a fairly big leap in price compared to a quality silver cable – $500 or more. But we’ve also made a significant jump in quality. The cable’s unique signature starts to play a more prominent role in the sound. For me personally, a cable in this range will determine something in the order of 25-30% of the sound.
  
 In this case, the listener’s personal preference and taste of music might become a better indicator than the specific iem with which it is paired. For instance, when I want to listen to either pop, rock or electronic music, the cable pairing is more important for me than the iem; I have favorite cables for pop or electronic music, and can use those cables with any iem – a brighter iem like NT6pro or S-EM9, but also a warmer midcentric iem like Zeus-XIV or Prelude.
  
 Some examples of different signatures and performance in this range are *Effect Audio’s* *Leonidas*, which has a very uncolored signature which a punchy bass as special feature, as well as a nice clean stage and good transparency and resolution. It’s a precise and technical sound, while its powerful low end gives it something extra – a cable I like for fast electronic music. *Labkable’s* *Samurai III* shares some general similarities, as both have an airy stage, and a fairly neutral but transparent signature. While the Samurai’s low end is not as powerful, it has a nice coloration in the upper midrange that gives some extra sparkle, as well as a slightly warmer midrange. The *Rhapsodio* *Golden* is a very unique cable, but hard to recommend because of its specific sound and stiff ergonomics. Due to its enhanced mid- and upper bass, it creates particularly thick notes and a full sound, although its stage isn’t very airy. The warmth from the low end is countered by a brighter upper midrange and treble. Upper midrange notes are thick and really pop out, making it highly engaging and perfect for synthetic-based melodies, even though its resolution and imaging is not very impressive – this is the (original) K10 of cables when it comes to sound. Though different than the Samurai III, both are favorites for pop or melodious electronic music. The recently discussed *PWaudio* *1960 2-wire* is unique due to its dark, warm, but smooth and resolving presentation. There’s a certain sensuality to its presentation that makes it involving for vocals, while being one of the most suitable to soften harsher treble. And then there’s the *plusSound* *Gold-Plated Copper 8-braid*, that performs admirably when it comes to stage airiness, resolution and transparency, but excels when it comes to its tonality – this remains one of my favorite cables for daily use. Due to its smooth, natural and accurate tone, suited for most instrument- or vocal-based music.
  
​  
_$1300_
 After hearing quality cables in the ‘top tier’, is the difference in this next range still discernible? I can only refer to the two cables I own(ed), but the answer is yes. A year ago I decided to randomly sell a bunch of stuff to invest in a few high-end cables for a shootout I was planning for Headfonics. After receiving the first few, I was impressed with the resolution of the Wagnus Frosty Sheep and Rhapsodio Copper Wizard 8-braid (both $1000). But when I heard the *SilverFi IEM-R2*, I immediately recognized this was a cable that took sound to a next level. Although its midrange was pretty forward and warm, it easily matched the resolution and transparency of the other two, while adding a level of naturalness that could not be compared. With its natural tone and forward midrange, this was a specialist for male vocals, and a generally very romantic sound - a signature resembling the upcoming Warbler Prelude. While I’d be hesitant to ever call *Labkable’s Pandora* ‘natural’ due to its reference sound, its resolution and transparency easily bests the lower tier, while adding both an engaging, punchy bass, as well as wide and deep holographic stage. The Jomo Samba of upgrade cables. Due to its brighter than neutral tone, high level of precision, and punchy bass, one of my favorites for electronic music.
  
_$2000_
 Paying 2K for an iem is an extraordinary amount, something we’ve only started to see since about a year – let alone for a cable. This is a shocking statement to make, but I would easily state that the 2 2K cables I have had a pleasure to listen to, are both a clear, and by objective audiophile standards significant, step up from any cable below. In both cases, the ‘wow’ effect of these cables was strong and immediate – within a minute of listening I could hear this was something special.
  
*PWaudio’s 1960 4-wire’s* black background, treble sparkle, and high level of both transparency and resolution is a prominent feature with any pairing, and as such has a discerning role on the picture you’re seeing. A dark atmosphere filled with transparent detailed elements, regardless if the iem is innately midcentric or bright. The astonishing ability to bring minor details so apparently to the foreground. I’ve never been one to care much about the effects cables have on a stage, since they’re mostly relatively minor. Until I heard the *SilverFi IEM-R4*. This isn’t only the largest stage in its dimensions, it’s also one of the airiest. This is truly a holographic stage. ‘Neutral’ has many different interpretations, but the best one is when it refers to a balance between the frequencies, as well as an accurate tone. The SilverFi house sound has always been the very definition of naturalness.  A slightly warm but not too forward midrange, and a beautiful treble tone. Much like the 4-wire, its transparency and resolution cannot be compared to any cable below; so it doesn’t have to be bright to be one of the most detailed, relying on its stage and transparency. When you’re listening to an iem paired to the IEM-R4, the stage is mostly determined by the cable, as is the naturalness of the tone.
  
 When you’re listening to one of these cables, the effect on an iem’s signature becomes so large, you’re almost listening to equal parts cable and iem. Accordingly, the difference between iems paired with such a cable becomes _smaller_, since a large portion of the sound is attributed to the cable. To picture what I mean with this, imagine two settings: one is a dark night in a rural area far from the city lights, with a starry night shining above you. There's a spotlight fixated on the singer performing for you. The other is a grassy meadow on a sunny spring day, with a forest in the background. In this analogy, the distance to the singer, and the pitch and power of their voice is the variance of the iem - but the setting I described is from the cable. 
  
_*Analyzing a cable’s signature*_
  
 Cables are difficult to analyze, especially in the lower tiers. As the quality goes up, the differences become larger and easier discernible. You need to more of a pro to analyze a $100 cable compared to a $1000 one. But I’ll give some basic pointers based on the ‘@MikePortnoy philosophy’ handed down to me a few years back.
  
 The key of breaking down a cable’s signature lies in understanding the relation between the (mid-)bass and the stage, since it determines a large deal of the presentation. So when you compare two cables, try to listen at how the different the bass is, and how it accordingly affects the stage. For instance, is the stage airier or even completely clean? Then most likely the mid- or upper- bass is attenuated. If a stage is still clean while having a nice bit of low end impact (like Leonidas or Pandora), there’s most likely an increase in control, and possibly in sub- or mid-bass but not upper-bass. Accordingly, it might take some of the warmth from the midrange tone. The size and warmth of midrange notes are strongly related to the bass presentation, so thicker notes are usually an indication of enhanced mid- or upper-bass. The clarity of the signature can be deduced by the relation between the quantity of bass combined with the prominence of the treble. Determining treble extension might require a bit more practice and understanding, but it can usually be determined from the definition of notes, as well as factors as transparency or the airiness surrounding notes and vocals.
  
  
​  
  
_*Trying cables for the first time*_
  
 Since people’s sensitivity for sound plays a role when it comes to cables, I would never recommend point blank paying a large amount for a high-end cable if you don’t have any experience with them. The effect of a more expensive cable will be easier noticeable than a cheaper cable, but even then there’s never a guarantee the result will be satisfactory at a personal level. Cables might be expensive, maybe even too expensive, but there is a fundamental reason why some cables are more expensive than others. Factors as the amount of wires (e.g. 4 vs. 8), or type of material (e.g. silver vs. copper), are negligible compared to the _quality _of the wires used. That’s why a basic 4-wire silver cable can range between $50 or $1000. Sadly enough, you can’t cut corners here. If a cable seems too good to be true (like a silver 8-braid costing new $200), it's safe to say it is. Instead, if you are interested in trying a high-end cable for the first time, I would strongly advise the following: try buying a second hand silver cable from a respected cable manufacturer (you can find many in the for-sale sections). That way you’re guaranteed a certain quality, and if you find it’s not for you, you can sell it at a minimal loss. Furthermore, you don’t need to be an expert with extremely sensitive hearing to hear the benefits of a cable. When I started out in this hobby a couple of years back, I didn’t know what a soundstage was, or even the difference between the upper midrange or treble. I happened to roll in the world of cables because a friend told me ‘I had to get one in case the stock cable broke’, but even at the time it was easily discernible that the silver cable (a Toxic Silver Widow) cleaned up the presentation and made it more detailed. Of course, it would take time and experience to understand the mechanisms, but the effect was there.
  
  
_Citations_
  
Born, G., & Hesmondhalgh, D. (2000). _Western music and its others: Difference, representation, and appropriation in music_. University of California Press.
  
Brunelle, M., & Kirby, J. (2016). Tone and phonation in Southeast Asian languages. _Language and Linguistics Compass_, _10_(4), 191-207.
  
Ohara, Y. (1999). Performing gender through voice pitch: A cross-cultural analysis of Japanese and American English. In _Wahrnehmung und Herstellung von Geschlecht_ (pp. 105-116). VS Verlag für Sozialwissenschaften.


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## blazinblazin

I would like to ask if you believe the burn in for cables?


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## flinkenick

blazinblazin said:


> I would like to ask if you believe the burn in for cables?


 
 I've always been open to the concept of burn in, even though I didn't really experience much differences in the past when it came to daps and cables. Recently, I hear clear differences. For instance, regardless of the price (a $300 Silver Widow or $2K IEM-R4) a silver cable becomes a lot smoother after 100-200 hours. Music Sanctuary takes the burn in process of the 1960 cable _very _seriously. They pre-burn the cable for 100 hours for customers as it determines its sound. (edit: not customary). But I haven't heard the before and after.


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## blazinblazin

flinkenick said:


> I've always been open to the concept of burn in, even though I didn't really experience much differences in the past when it came to daps and cables. Recently, I hear clear differences. For instance, regardless of the price (a $300 Silver Widow or $2K IEM-R4) a silver cable becomes a lot smoother after 100-200 hours. Music Sanctuary takes the burn in process of the 1960 cable _very_ seriously. They pre-burn the cable for 100 hours for customers as it determines its sound. But I haven't heard the before and after.




I do experience a sound change for my Leonidas.


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## twister6

I think the problem is that some people run "burn in" while continuously listening to their headphones.  From my personal experience, that's when a brain burn-in happens and the gradual changes in sound are less noticeable.  When you set your cable/IEM on a continuous playback loop for a week and check it once a day to take progress notes, you will hear a more noticeable difference.
  
 Btw, on a different topic, anybody else excited/curious about @EffectAudio announced Heritage series "Lionheart" cable?  A hybrid design with GPC and SPC Litz braids in a thinner and more pliable Heritage series, announced here.  Though cable reviews typically don't make a front page, at least seeing an announcement on the front page was cool


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## audionewbi

*My first argument:* Sadly there are a lot of ambiguity when it comes to after market cable. I've been testing out cable seriously for the past 1 year and I do admit while there are difference between each brand I say with confidence that I don't like my chances passing blind test.
 Going back to the ambiguity for example there are many companies who use UPOCC cables for their IEM design but the source of the cable they use is all the same. That is only three cable manufacturer has the licences to construction cable using that particular technology yes we see such large price variation. 
*This leads me to my next argument:* Sadly a lot of cable cost isn't in the raw material used but in fact in how the after market cable maker values its brand. As they all basically source their material from the same place and I have never seen proof where I know what I am paying for is justified. 

 To me cable upgrade is the last thing that any IEM/headphone enthusiast should spend their money on. And whether the cable cost $50 or $5000 the price tag will never suggest it will work with your IEM. It is far more cheaper and more effective to buy a high quality OFC and invest in a good DAP or an EQ to achieve the effect  we are hoping to find in cable than in the cable themselves.
  
 I am slowly figuring out how to evaluate cable, what my priorities to be. I think the first and most important part of any after market cable is to be durable and in terms of ergonomics flexible and comfortable with no microphonic. If an after market cannot do this there is no point to purchase them as they got the basic all wrong. 

 I am still expecting to get more cable and test them, some I ask for loaner unit, rest all spend from my own money and all this for sake of coming to a conclusion and possibly not answering out of my own bias but so far the difference between the UPOCC from one brand which asks me to pay 250 USD and other which ask me to pay twice that beside its braiding geometry is absolutely nothing. Our portable audio hobby is young and what is ever younger is after market cable. There are far more after market cable makers than there are IEM makers. One would thing this would be great for the users as it creates a competition but sadly it hasn't
  
 Having said that I will shortly write my own reviews of the less than a handful brands I have come across whose cable has pleased me. And when I say handful I should say less than five.


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## Rei87

audionewbi said:


> *My first argument:* Sadly there are a lot of ambiguity when it comes to after market cable. I've been testing out cable seriously for the past 1 year and I do admit while there are difference between each brand I say with confidence that I don't like my chances passing blind test.
> Going back to the ambiguity for example there are many companies who use UPOCC cables for their IEM design but the source of the cable they use is all the same. That is only three cable manufacturer has the licences to construction cable using that particular technology yes we see such large price variation.
> *This leads me to my next argument:* Sadly a lot of cable cost isn't in the raw material used but in fact in how the after market cable maker values its brand. As they all basically source their material from the same place and I have never seen proof where I know what I am paying for is justified.
> 
> ...


 



 I agree that much of cable prices rarely comes from the actual material costs, but how the manufacturer decides to price it, and if the market is willing to accept it. However, I have to disagree, that that makes the process as sinister as implied in your above post. We are in a strange hobby, where more often than not, the price to performance point rarely makes sense in any other context. Heck, I paid 6 k for my player after 2 months of consideration, yet, I still am trying to justify a reason strong enough to make me spend 3 k to upgrade the frame + fork on my bicycle. 

 With that said, I would like to respectfully point out that audio priorities differ from person to person. I do agree that cables should be as ergonomic as possible, since this hobby is meant to be enjoyed while on the go. That said, the boundaries of what is 'portable' and 'not' differs, and some cables which you might deem excessively obstructive might be well within limits of another. To others, ergonomics might not even matter at all, since they pursue nothing but perfection even for music on the go. 

 Back to that point of cable being the last area of improvement. I do agree, to a certain degree, that what you said is true. However, there are also many, many people who have already pushed their game as far as they can, and hence cables, to them, regardless of price, makes sense as the next area to pursue. There are some people who are already rocking the best DAPs out there money can buy (which, ironically seems to be the bare minimum, since you only ever seem to see CU, SS or 1Zs during audio eventsm or phones when they are too lazy to use their DAPs), have already sent said players for after-market mods/enhancements, already own multiple iems/cans/speakers set ups, maybe even had a hand in DIY projects like fashioning out a custom copper chasis just to improve the grounding of existing gears they own. You may be surprised to realize that, there are more people than you think, who are already at the point where they really have nothing else to spend their money on to ick out those last few drops of performance.


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## audionewbi

rei87 said:


> I agree that much of cable prices rarely comes from the actual material costs, but how the manufacturer decides to price it, and if the market is willing to accept it. However, I have to disagree, that that makes the process as sinister as implied in your above post. We are in a strange hobby, where more often than not, the price to performance point rarely makes sense in any other context. Heck, I paid 6 k for my player after 2 months of consideration, yet, I still am trying to justify a reason strong enough to make me spend 3 k to upgrade the frame + fork on my bicycle.
> 
> With that said, I would like to respectfully point out that audio priorities differ from person to person. I do agree that cables should be as ergonomic as possible, since this hobby is meant to be enjoyed while on the go. That said, the boundaries of what is 'portable' and 'not' differs, and some cables which you might deem excessively obstructive might be well within limits of another. To others, ergonomics might not even matter at all, since they pursue nothing but perfection even for music on the go.
> 
> Back to that point of cable being the last area of improvement. I do agree, to a certain degree, that what you said is true. However, there are also many, many people who have already pushed their game as far as they can, and hence cables, to them, regardless of price, makes sense as the next area to pursue. There are some people who are already rocking the best DAPs out there money can buy (which, ironically seems to be the bare minimum, since you only ever seem to see CU, SS or 1Zs during audio eventsm or phones when they are too lazy to use their DAPs), have already sent said players for after-market mods/enhancements, already own multiple iems/cans/speakers set ups, maybe even had a hand in DIY projects like fashioning out a custom copper chasis just to improve the grounding of existing gears they own. You may be surprised to realize that, there are more people than you think, who are already at the point where they really have nothing else to spend their money on to ick out those last few drops of performance.


 
 I think we all want good sound, regardless of whether we are your average head-fi member or your earpod loving iphone user. I think it would be hard to find anyone who doesn't want to experience their favourite music in a more pleasing way. Now the issue comes on how we decide what that is, and like all other cases there can never be a truly universal conclusion. However I do think there can be a set of standard that will please a wider population than the very niche of the niche of us who is happy to carry a cable like Brise audio Murakumo. I have no issue with such specific product, I for one have crazy cables like that but I have never used them outside. Certainly we all have different priorities but sadly like all things if money wasn't the factor than we wouldn't have to prioritise things. 
  
 There will always but those who are in this place as it is their hobby and for them there is no limit and they will always take on the more daring aspect of this hobby, as that is what a hobby is. But if we are to think more socially and if we want to expand the market so we improve the interest enough so that music producers start caring about producing music beyond the limit of iTune lossy limits we have to provide more clarity and justification behind why things cost what they do and without such clarity this large movement will always remain as something that only hobbyist do because they are bored, your average folk will simply come here, look at things, laugh and close the thread.
  
 To be fair I was one, I am not anymore as I have spend close to 5K on cables alone but do I blame those people? No, the vast number of cables I tried did not offer any upgrade compared to their cheaper competitor. I will not mention name as I do not have the will to fight, it is fruitless but out of all the snake oils in our hobby cable is the cream of the crop of the snake oils!


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## blazinblazin

Yes only those factories like you said have the license to produce those kind of cables.

Thinking it another way.

How you know the internal structure of the cables are the same? Do you cut them up and count how many thick and thin strands are in the cable and how the cables are constructed?

Are there other companies that extract or order the strands and reconstruct the cables?

If the cables are designed and constructed by the cable designers, how about research time and materials they tested to come out with the cables?

How about telling me which of the 3 factories produced this cable? 
There are 2 gold bunches mixed within the silver bunches.


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## twister6

twister6 said:


> I think the problem is that some people run "burn in" while continuously listening to their headphones.  From my personal experience, that's when a brain burn-in happens and the gradual changes in sound are less noticeable.  When you set your cable/IEM on a continuous playback loop for a week and check it once a day to take progress notes, you will hear a more noticeable difference.
> 
> Btw, on a different topic, anybody else excited/curious about @EffectAudio announced Heritage series "Lionheart" cable?  A hybrid design with GPC and SPC Litz braids in a thinner and more pliable Heritage series, announced here.  Though cable reviews typically don't make a front page, at least seeing an announcement on the front page was cool


 
  
@Kozato already has Lionheart listed on: https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/effect-audio/products/heritage-series-lionheart-upgrade-cable


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## Rei87

audionewbi said:


> I think we all want good sound, regardless of whether we are your average head-fi member or your earpod loving iphone user. I think it would be hard to find anyone who doesn't want to experience their favourite music in a more pleasing way. Now the issue comes on how we decide what that is, and like all other cases there can never be a truly universal conclusion. However I do think there can be a set of standard that will please a wider population than the very niche of the niche of us who is happy to carry a cable like Brise audio Murakumo. I have no issue with such specific product, I for one have crazy cables like that but I have never used them outside. Certainly we all have different priorities but sadly like all things if money wasn't the factor than we wouldn't have to prioritise things.
> 
> There will always but those who are in this place as it is their hobby and for them there is no limit and they will always take on the more daring aspect of this hobby, as that is what a hobby is. But if we are to think more socially and if we want to expand the market so we improve the interest enough so that music producers start caring about producing music beyond the limit of iTune lossy limits we have to provide more clarity and justification behind why things cost what they do and without such clarity this large movement will always remain as something that only hobbyist do because they are bored, your average folk will simply come here, look at things, laugh and close the thread.
> 
> To be fair I was one, I am not anymore as I have spend close to 5K on cables alone but do I blame those people? No, the vast number of cables I tried did not offer any upgrade compared to their cheaper competitor. I will not mention name as I do not have the will to fight, it is fruitless but out of all the snake oils in our hobby cable is the cream of the crop of the snake oils!


 

 In their defense, it takes a large amount of capital to acquire both the machineries and human talent needed to design and build their own OFC/single crystal cables. So, to expect a company to not source their cables from the big names is kind of an unfair criticism to make. As far as I know, only Crystal cable does that, and there is a reason why their products sound so good (dreamline cable anyone?) and cost so much (3kUSD). 

 Secondly, there are a number of cable companies, even if they do have several premium priced products due to limited production runs or geometry, still remain steadfastly a budget company with a product line that largely cater to the market segment that dont mind sacrificing performance. So the budget market is also well taken care off, because in all honesty, it is almost impossible for a company to be a truly high-end, no-holds barred cable company without the expertise on the scale of crystal cable. Do note, that charging a premium for variations in geometry, or even because its a limited run of cables, only makes it expensive, but not high-end in the truest sense of the word, in much the same way the last thing money can buy is, class. Most companies still do not offer a true premium experience, or bespoke service like the same way we viewboots or clothes, by being have the ability to tune every aspect of the wire without external limitations from a supplier (at most, they just slap together existing cables and call it something new), and hence, why I feel that the audio game is still targeted towards the mainstream, and not a niche reserved only for the rich.

 As such, I do think that while the market has some crazy cables out there, no one is as left out of the game. Yes, it lacks transparency, but nothing in this world ever is, and we can only guess and piece together info based on what we know, before deciding if it is worth spending the cash for it.


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## audionewbi

blazinblazin said:


> Yes only those factories like you said have the license to produce those kind of cables.
> 
> Thinking it another way.
> 
> ...



I don't dispute the R&D cost of cable manufacturer like NEOTECH, which is one of the three cable manufacturers who have the license to produce OCC cables. They are not the want who ask excessively for their cables. 
As far as me naming who made those cable I don't see the point you are trying to make. Asking for more data as a consumer isn't something to be offended by as a consumer.


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## audionewbi

rei87 said:


> In their defense, it takes a large amount of capital to acquire both the machineries and human talent needed to design and build their own OFC/single crystal cables. So, to expect a company to not source their cables from the big names is kind of an unfair criticism to make. As far as I know, only Crystal cable does that, and there is a reason why their products sound so good (dreamline cable anyone?) and cost so much (3kUSD).
> 
> 
> Secondly, there are a number of cable companies, even if they do have several premium priced products due to limited production runs or geometry, still remain steadfastly a budget company with a product line that largely cater to the market segment that dont mind sacrificing performance. So the budget market is also well taken care off, because in all honesty, it is almost impossible for a company to be a truly high-end, no-holds barred cable company without the expertise on the scale of crystal cable. Do note, that charging a premium for variations in geometry, or even because its a limited run of cables, only makes it expensive, but not high-end in the truest sense of the word, in much the same way the last thing money can buy is, class. Most companies still do not offer a true premium experience, or bespoke service like the same way we viewboots or clothes, by being have the ability to tune every aspect of the wire without external limitations from a supplier (at most, they just slap together existing cables and call it something new), and hence, why I feel that the audio game is still targeted towards the mainstream, and not a niche reserved only for the rich.
> ...



I agree with companies trying to protect their intellectual property however when a company claims to be using UPOCC don't you think we have the right to see the proof? 
There are companies who make their own cables, VDL is one which Dita Audio sources their cable from but you don't see Dita audio hiding this fact from us. Cardas is another. 

We just don't have the data as a consumer to make our decisions wisely. And one would think a cable maker which is asking for 3000 usd for a cable would proudly show why their cable is worth that much, wouldn't you think?
Almost 80% of all after market cables come from NEOTECH and I can promise you they sale their cable at a fair price.


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## chaiyuta

I don't care whatever XX OCC as long as thier sound meet my preference. In that case I will take a note what XX make me satisfy. Isn't it better to have various company tried to produce the upgraded cables? If there are only 3 manufacturers producing their own brand. It means that we all have only 3 option to buy. Why do we have to take serious on OCC certificates? It does not relate to human safety at all. Just listen musics and fun.


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## tunes

Forgot to ask, will this Toslink to MiniPlug have any advantage over a cheap $6 cable to connect my QP1R optical line out to the Hugo2?? If it just a digital signal, my understanding is that it either works and is decided or not. Some claim glass fibers are better than plastic or the opposite. Snake oil or fact?? See below site.

http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=365&osCsid=oq9tp7e2dcgtm73rjg0u2c8jq0


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## jmills8

tunes said:


> Forgot to ask, will this Toslink to MiniPlug have any advantage over a cheap $6 cable to connect my QP1R optical line out to the Hugo2?? If it just a digital signal, my understanding is that it either works and is decided or not. Some claim glass fibers are better than plastic or the opposite. Snake oil or fact?? See below site.
> 
> http://www.sysconcept.ca/product_info.php?products_id=365&osCsid=oq9tp7e2dcgtm73rjg0u2c8jq0


yes (5%)


----------



## jmills8

Look at that $2.7 USD Cable.


----------



## ranfan

jmills8 said:


> Look at that $2.7 USD Cable.


 
 Another model

  
 Difference is not far from Labkable Titan, in my opinion. More clarity, although the Titan is already super clear. This Brimar cost around 4-5k USD, while the Titan cost 2500 USD.


----------



## jmills8

ranfan said:


> Another model
> 
> 
> 
> And the difference is not far from Labkable Titan, in my opinion. More clarity, although the Titan is already super clear. The Brimar cost around 4-5k USD, while the Titan cost 2500 USD.


 5K yikes. Then Guess Ill walk to Mong Kok and demo a Labkable.


----------



## ranfan

jmills8 said:


> 5K yikes. Then Guess Ill walk to Mong Kok and demo a Labkable.


 
  
 Try the Takumi, Samurai, and Pandora if you can. They're great, and more affordable


----------



## chaiyuta

jmills8 said:


> Look at that $2.7 USD Cable.


 
 If I could get this just only 2.7$, I would have bought 100 pieces.


----------



## Rei87

Haha I'll just stick to my 1960s  

Tried that Brimar cable at the recent canjam since the Brimar owner had it with him. Didn't want to be rude so I didnt say much to him, but I thought that for the price he quoted, the performance was....for lack of a better word...pathetic...


----------



## jmills8

PW Audio shop one block away from Labkable and Rhapsodio one block in the other direction. YY Pro three blocks away.


----------



## blazinblazin

rei87 said:


> Haha I'll just stick to my 1960s
> 
> Tried that Brimar cable at the recent canjam since the Brimar owner had it with him. Didn't want to be rude so I didnt say much to him, but I thought that for the price he quoted, the performance was....for lack of a better word...pathetic...


 
  
 Have you hear Effect Audio's Lionheart?
  
 Any opinion on that cable?


----------



## Rei87

blazinblazin said:


> Have you hear Effect Audio's Lionheart?
> 
> Any opinion on that cable?


 


 No, I did not have the opportunity to as I was caught up in other booths 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But, it was a pity that I did not have the chance to. None the less, I am sure that it will certainly bring out a positive improvement from any stock cables that comes bundled with the IEMs haha


----------



## fzman

chaiyuta said:


> I don't care whatever XX OCC as long as thier sound meet my preference. In that case I will take a note what XX make me satisfy. Isn't it better to have various company tried to produce the upgraded cables? If there are only 3 manufacturers producing their own brand. It means that we all have only 3 option to buy. Why do we have to take serious on OCC certificates? It does not relate to human safety at all. Just listen musics and fun.


 
  
 Quoting this post as I'm too lazy to multi-quote....
  
 OCC is a specific "brand-name" process for producinig cast copper wire strands, or solid core wire.  Note I said 'wire', not 'cable'.  Wires are single conductors, cables are primarily multi-conductor.....   So yes, there are only (afaik)  3 factories licenced to produce occ wire strands, in the same way that Kobe Beef is only supposed to be from Japan, Champagne, only from that region of France, etc....   OCC is not the only good wire/conductor.......
  
 Most "cable makers" known to Head-Fi users are too small to manufacture their own wires, but buy wires to make cables out of them.  Many are using the same (we presume) occ litz wires, with identical insulation, and braided virtually identically, and use the same connectors.  Some may be able to order connectors with their logo printed on them, but not able to afford to have custom connectors manufactured.  Likewise, they buy off-the-shelf wire (good stuff, though), as they cannot afford to actually have wired made for them, to their spec-- usually need to order 10's of thousands of feet.  So, even for prototyping R/&D, the spools are extremely expensive-more so if the 'experiment' is a failure.
  
 Cardas, e.g., does have wire made just for them, to their exact spec.  So does Audioquest, Wirewolrd, etc.  This costs big $$, but allows them to use wire/cable that is designed to peform well for audio, not just hoping to come up with a braid pattern or mixing copper and silver, or gauges, then braiding them.....  Kimber has made their reputation on braided cables - but they designed and built macines to do the braiding for them.....
  
 I mean no offense to anyone by these remarks, just trying to establish more of a factual context here....


----------



## proedros

flinkenick said:


> *A primer on high-end cables*
> 
> _<$350_
> You can get a solid cable for roughly $150-$200. Some examples are the *Effect Audio Ares II *or* PWaudio’s no 5*. Depending on the listener, the effects might vary from negligible, to having a nice moderate effect to polish up an iem’s signature, by adding a bit of warmth or extension for example. Depending on the listener, the difference might be considered around 5%-10% (just as a rough estimation to paint a picture). But when you arrive at a quality $350 silver cable, the effect should be more clearly noticeable, while still remaining affordable. The extension will be slightly better, possible resulting in better transparency, resolution, or airiness. Sometimes silver cables might be brighter, resulting in more apparent clarity. We might think of this effect as contributing to 20% of the sound. This range is what I would consider the cable equivalent of an iem like the DN2000j or Primacy. Significantly better than a $150 cable, but after this point the price to increase its performance will start to steeply rise. Excellent value.


 
  
 btw i am selling my effect audio ares II for just 90 euros....
  
 great post again , Nic


----------



## ranfan

I notice when playing with my DAP filters, a better quality cable tends to provide a more significant and noticeable change in sound characteristics. Couldn't notice any difference before when using stock cables. Before, 'long decay' filter, is no different compared to 'short decay'. But now it can be felt, and is longer.


----------



## spw1880

Just adding my two cents here..great posts btw regarding all the facts about occ wire makers and the after market cable industry. I personally feel that boutique cable brands will start to bring better value products to market as we consumers become more knowledgable of the subject.

I wanted to raise some topics that i have been curious to hear some first hand experience.

1. Will upocc copper or silver wire always oxidise and change color if it is non-litz? I did have a copper cable turn green after a year but it wasnt upocc.not sure whether being upocc can effect levels of oxidation.

2. Does litz type wire always sound in ways superior to normal bare stranded wire? I read somewhere skin and proximity effect starts to have negative effect beyond a certain frequency threshold and should have negligable effect in short wires.nnot sure if this is true. The cable industry is full on into litz cable atm. 

Thank you


----------



## BriarSnob

I stumbled upon this thread by accident and found it really informative as I consider a cable purchase in the not too distant future.  Thank you all for the great information.


----------



## ironpeg

Has anyone tried Rhapsodio Copper Wizard?
 Please compare them with PW 1960 and Effect Audio Leonidas.


----------



## Ike1985

Is it possible to get a chart going with the data? The thread is difficult to navigate otherwise (I have no idea where reviews are and cannot see an overview of them with scores), scrolling through 40 pages and all.


----------



## BriarSnob

ike1985 said:


> Is it possible to get a chart going with the data? The thread is difficult to navigate otherwise (I have no idea where reviews are and cannot see an overview of them with scores), scrolling through 40 pages and all.


 

 Great idea.  Having just read all 40 pages, that is a monumental ask, but would be very useful..


----------



## flinkenick

ironpeg said:


> Has anyone tried Rhapsodio Copper Wizard?
> Please compare them with PW 1960 and Effect Audio Leonidas.


 
 Similar to 1960 cable, there's a significant difference between the 4 and 8 braid. Copper Wizard 8-braid has a warm v-shape wtih enhanced mid-bass, slightly laid back midrange and lift in the lower treble. It has very high resolution, and a similar dark atmosphere like 1960. My guess is 1960 has a more balanced, slightly thicker midrange, while the Wizard 8-braid has higher resolution. But it was a long time since I heard it, so any comparison is just a guess at this point. Safe to say, they share some basic similarities like a warm signature, enhanced bass, and black background. Leonidas on the other hand is quite different, it is airier due to a tighter bass response, overall more linear and uncolored, although it can be dry with certain pairings. But it was also a couple of months since I heard it.


----------



## Emerald Core

what is the best cable for A&K Rosie ? 
  
 I am running ti from my smartphone and sometimes from Chord Hugo for critical listening. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## ranfan

Has anyone tried a blind test of cables with different materials? (e.g Copper, Silver, Hybrid, etc.) And guess the type of cable, from sound character as per reviewed.

 I read this on the science forum, and was curious.


> I'm almost convinced the silver (better tops) and copper (warmer) argument is simply an effect of the emotion the colour of the metal imparts on the listener...
> I wonder if there are any blind head-fiers that have been brave enough to chime in and pass on the wonders of how amazing and complicated and connected to the mind hearing really is, and how large a part psychoacoustics play in every minute of conscious listening...we had to study this as part of my audio engineering studies in 1993.


----------



## tim0chan

ranfan said:


> Have anyone tried a blind test of cables with different materials? (e.g Copper, Silver, Hybrid, etc.) And guess the cable, from sound character.
> 
> 
> I read this on the science forum, and was curious.



I technically have. There are a few sleeved cables at a dealer and i tried a few and could tell the differences for most of them other than some special cases like the 1960s cable


----------



## spw1880

ranfan said:


> Have anyone tried a blind test of cables with different materials? (e.g Copper, Silver, Hybrid, etc.) And guess the cable, from sound character.
> 
> 
> 
> I read this on the science forum, and was curious.



My silver cable so far has brought out more details across the frequecy spectrum not only the top compared to stock ofc cable. I am no expert reviewer but switching back to stock cable after months of using silver cable, i found my brainh searching for details that wasnt as pronounced as before leaving me unsatisfied. My iem happens to be of a warmer signature. A good copper cable could have the same effect but i havent experienced one yet. I have a oc studio copper cable on the way..so who knows.


----------



## Rei87

ranfan said:


> Have anyone tried a blind test of cables with different materials? (e.g Copper, Silver, Hybrid, etc.) And guess the cable, from sound character.
> 
> 
> I read this on the science forum, and was curious.




I would suggest that you take the sound science page with a pinch of salt.
They worship measurable science and data, but when confronted with ANOVA tests and an actual blind test they balk at it when ppl claim differences post calculation of results. 

Really, it's just a page where they justify their own inherent bias based on something they don't bother testing for themselves because the measurement god says so.

But, I will agree, that cable material to signature is more a rule of thumb than Universal truth. There are exceptions, and sometimes indeed the differences are so small that you need to actually squint to notice the changes.


----------



## blazinblazin

Some only believe in the best wire they sourced from certified makers.

But purity and material is not everything.

The combinations of different type strands, geometry, combinations also makes a difference.

If a company only use wires from certified factory to make the cables, without special tweaking their cable would be same as general cable makers, will sound very similar and won't stands out.


Those cables that stands out are those with special tweaking and tunings from each wire itself.


----------



## spw1880

blazinblazin said:


> Some only believe in the best wire they sourced from certified makers.
> 
> But purity and material is not everything.
> 
> ...




Not to mention matching of connectors of different brands as well as type of solder used. All have unique synergies. I personally have reterminated and noticed slight variations in sound.


----------



## chaiyuta

rei87 said:


> I would suggest that you take the sound science page with a pinch of salt.
> They worship measurable science and data, but when confronted with ANOVA tests and an actual blind test they balk at it when ppl claim differences post calculation of results.
> 
> Really, it's just a page where they justify their own inherent bias based on something they don't bother testing for themselves because the measurement god says so.
> ...



Agreed. We cannot conclude everything with those calculation results. Even a woman face which does not correspond to Golden ratio, it doesn't mean that the woman is beautiful whether or not.


----------



## boomtube

Q: Can green discoloration be removed from cable?
  
 I have the original Tralucent Uber cable. One of the connectors broke so I had new ones installed...I guess moisture somehow got into the clear sheathing and now it's turning green.
  
 What's the best way to get rid of this?
  
 I apologize for posting here, don't mean to steer the thread in a different direction. It just seems like I'd get the most help here.


----------



## tim0chan

boomtube said:


> Q: Can green discoloration be removed from cable?
> 
> I have the original Tralucent Uber cable. One of the connectors broke so I had new ones installed...I guess moisture somehow got into the clear sheathing and now it's turning green.
> 
> ...



There's no way unfortunately


----------



## spw1880

Copper within wire turning green, there is now way to fix it. But it shouldnt affect the sound. But i suggest to get it sleeved.


----------



## Law87

*Moon Audio Silver Dragon IEM.*
  
 Got this cable about a year and a half ago. About couple months ago, it was starting to cut out on both my westone W60 and W80, send it in to Drew, asking to replace MMCX connector (I was willing to pay for it since it was out of warranty) almost TWO weeks later, recieved the cable back. They dint fix a dang thing, the sound was still cutting out! when I try to removed it, this bit camed off, and he blame it on my W80 female socket tolerance as being "off", charge me 40$ to fix this or 25% on a new cable. *All my other cables there is NO cutout, none whatsoever, so its not my IEM or the MMCX connector itself.*

 I'm pretty pissed, to think I was going to purchased a copper cable from them. Point is, I will never do bussiness with them, I'm talking to Ted Allen and plus sound right now to get this cable fix with a better parts or soldering. If you bought stuff from them or going to buy stuff from them, beware of quality issues.

 Communication from Ted and PLUSOUND is a hella lot quicker than Drew. I bet my cable wont take 2 weeks to return either.


----------



## flinkenick

law87 said:


> *Moon Audio Silver Dragon IEM.*
> 
> Got this cable about a year and a half ago. About couple months ago, it was starting to cut out on both my westone W60 and W80, send it in to Drew, asking to replace MMCX connector (I was willing to pay for it since it was out of warranty) almost TWO weeks later, recieved the cable back. They dint fix a dang thing, the sound was still cutting out! when I try to removed it, this bit camed off, and he blame it on my W80 female socket tolerance as being "off", charge me 40$ to fix this or 25% on a new cable. *All my other cables there is NO cutout, none whatsoever, so its not my IEM or the MMCX connector itself.*
> 
> ...


 
 I hate to say, this sounds kind of familiar..
  
http://www.head-fi.org/products/moon-audio-iem-silver-dragon


----------



## Law87

Edit


----------



## flinkenick

I'm honestly just a bit perplexed at why a company would keep using the same connectors if they keep breaking. It's not like it's the most expensive part to improve, but maybe I'm missing something..


----------



## Law87

flinkenick said:


> I'm honestly just a bit perplexed at why a company would keep using the same connectors if they keep breaking. It's not like it's the most expensive part to improve, but maybe I'm missing something..


 
  
  
 He doesnt say that its broken hes trying to say that my Westone is broken or use poor quality part....


----------



## flinkenick

ike1985 said:


> Is it possible to get a chart going with the data? The thread is difficult to navigate otherwise (I have no idea where reviews are and cannot see an overview of them with scores), scrolling through 40 pages and all.


 
   
 Quote:


briarsnob said:


> Great idea.  Having just read all 40 pages, that is a monumental ask, but would be very useful..


 
 I've replaced the thread starting post with my recent post, and edited it a bit and linked the reviews up. I can add future reviews in the same piece, like some I mentioned (Ares II, PW no 5, SilverFi R4).
  
 From memory I can't remember there being a great deal of reviews. Alex reviewed a couple, and I remember Zelda doing 2 at some point, and Vishnu recently did Leonidas. If anybody wants to make a list feel free, people can refer back to that post in the future  I can also link to that post in the first post.


----------



## Toolman

law87 said:


> flinkenick said:
> 
> 
> > I hate to say, this sounds kind of familiar..
> ...




Business must be really good if he thinks he can treat his customers with this level of disdain...cable is a high margin business and he need to give a better aftersale service. And after trying out so many cables (incl no less than 6 Moon Audio cables of different varieties) I can honestly conclude that his cables are downright crap with little, if any improvement over stock cable. Not that I care since i won't be buying anything from him going forward.


----------



## Law87

toolman said:


> Business must be really good if he thinks he can treat his customers with this level of disdain...cable is a high margin business and he need to give a better aftersale service. And after trying out so many cables (incl no less than 6 Moon Audio cables of different varieties) I can honestly conclude that his cables are downright crap with little, if any improvement over stock cable. Not that I care since i won't be buying anything from him going forward.


 
  
  
 in their defense, I would say that the sound quality is good, (theres no microphonics, the soundstage is wide, the bass are leaner, less mid bass on my W80, brings the mids to where I like it) but craftsmanship and customer service is just pure utter crap. He kept insisting that its the MMCX fault on my Westone, which I told him, if that was the case then all my other cables would have the similar problem of cutting out (which it isnt, I tested with 3-4 differenent cable).
  
 For some reason or another that is not registering it to him or he just kept on pounding on that ideas till I believe its my product fault :/ whatever, I knew he was all about making money when he offers me "I'll give you 25% off of a new cable" please, the cable is $200+ I have to do this every year and a half? I guess one of his staff saw my reviews, he offers for me to send it in and he'll "makes it right" but I rather sending it to PLUSSOUND and see what they'll say, I hate people wasting my time and just blantly lie.

 on another note, I see DHC makes some pretty nice cable, but it is so costly. I wouldnt mind buying their cable as I have one for Mr. Speakers Ether C/AP/AD and I have that thing since 2013


----------



## Toolman

No doubt DHC's cables are super costly (often hard for me to justify) but they are consistently good. If you have good gears, wanted the best and could afford them then I strongly encourage you to try them out at least once and see why I keep going back to them despite their often prohibitive cost


----------



## ranfan

DHC actually have one (only one ever), Prion4 for CIEM:

 I wanted, but couldn't afford it. Used, at 1350 USD, negotiable, but already sold.
 -
 Does anybody know how does plusSound T-Metal sound? Also, Wagnus Diamond Dust if anyone has experience?


----------



## Law87

ranfan said:


> DHC actually have one (only one ever), Prion4 for CIEM:
> 
> I wanted, but couldn't afford it. Used, at 1350 USD, negotiable, but already sold.
> -
> Does anybody know how does plusSound T-Metal sound? Also, Wagnus Diamond Dust if anyone has experience?


 
  
  
 that look super stiff


----------



## EagleWings

While it can be a lot of fun to compile a long list of cable reviews, let me sacrifice the fun task to any of my friends here . But here are some links where you can find reviews from 3 cable reviewers, whom I consider are accurate in their reviews:
  
*Flinkenick's Cable Reviews:*
 1. Head-Fi Reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/users/410706/reviews
 2. TheHeadphoneList.com: http://theheadphonelist.com/author/flinkenick/
 3. Headfonics.com: http://headfonics.com/author/nic-flinkenflogel/
  
*Twister6's Cable Reviews:*
 1. Head-Fi Reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755971/twister6-audio-review-index-the-past-the-present-and-the-future
 2. Twister.com: https://twister6.com/category/other/
  
*MikePortnoy's Cable Reviews:*
 1. Head-Fi Reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/users/360403/reviews
 2. TheHeadphoneList.com: http://theheadphonelist.com/author/MikePortnoy/
 3. HeadphoneGuru.com: http://headphone.guru/author/ates-berberoglu/


----------



## Rei87

ranfan said:


> DHC actually have one (only one ever), Prion4 for CIEM:
> 
> 
> I wanted, but couldn't afford it. Used, at 1350 USD, negotiable, but already sold.
> ...


 
Oh Damn...I wish I had seen it. The prion 4 for iems has been one cable that I've wanted for quite a while.


----------



## ranfan

2000 USD for the Prion4 and SE5 Ultimate, lol  They're gone now..


----------



## ChrisSC

Many contend that cable geometry is an important factor that affects the sound. Can anyone elaborate on what the sonic differences are between round, semi-round, square, and flat braiding?


----------



## Wyville

Any people here who wear glasses? What do you look for when searching for a new cable?
  
 I just got my Custom Art Ei.3 and for the first time I am having comfort issues with the memory wire. It is really stiff and I can't get it to loop around my ear comfortably. The material used to cover it also feels quite hard and might be adding to the discomfort.
  
 I asked the guys at Custom Art and they have had some customers with glasses who experience the same. They also told me that the Linum cables are a bit unreliable, which is unacceptable because I use my IEMs 8+ hours a day, and Effect Audio cables might be a bit on the thick side. I'm no sure if thickness is much of a problem because my Shure cable is a bit thicker and is still comfortable.


----------



## coolcat

ranfan said:


> 2000 USD for the Prion4 and SE5 Ultimate, lol  They're gone now..


 
 There is still a PW audio 1964 in the classified now, which should sound as good as the Prion4. You still have a chance to pay for a 1000$ up cable.
  
 By the way, have anyone tried the Wagnus Sieve sheep (the old Wagnus TOTL) and how does it compares to the Tralucent Uber  (I think Anakchan used to hear them both, not so sure about this)? I really like the Tralucent Uber, but I can only use it in door when I sit.  Another question if you guys think that the Wagnus cables and PW audio cables in general (I know the sound differs from model to model) sound similar to the Uber. I've tried some cables such as Labkable Pandora, Takumi MKII,effect Mars and Leonidas lately , but I dont like them that much, wanna find something that sound similar to the Uber but easier to be carried around. Thank you


----------



## Toolman

Had the first call on the Prion4 iem cable but alas I've just bought a Prion4 for my Utopia as well as a 4-wire 1960 for my iem...I had to pass on it


----------



## jmills8

toolman said:


> Had the first call on the Prion4 iem cable but alas I've just bought a Prion4 for my Utopia as well as a 4-wire 1960 for my iem...I had to pass on it


 Im selling a brand new PW 1960 4 WIRE.


----------



## ranfan

wyville said:


> Any people here who wear glasses? What do you look for when searching for a new cable?
> 
> I just got my Custom Art Ei.3 and for the first time I am having comfort issues with the memory wire. It is really stiff and I can't get it to loop around my ear comfortably. The material used to cover it also feels quite hard and might be adding to the discomfort.
> 
> I asked the guys at Custom Art and they have had some customers with glasses who experience the same. They also told me that the Linum cables are a bit unreliable, which is unacceptable because I use my IEMs 8+ hours a day, and Effect Audio cables might be a bit on the thick side. I'm no sure if thickness is much of a problem because my Shure cable is a bit thicker and is still comfortable.


 
 I guess, thinness of the cable over-ear? So that it feels seamless when wearing glasses. Usually the 2-wire or 4-wire. Also flexible material, and non-memory wire. I usually use earbuds when wearing glasses, or not wear glasses when using IEMs. An alternative solution would be using a speaker 
  


coolcat said:


> There is still a PW audio 1964 in the classified now, which should sound as good as the Prion4. You still have a chance to pay for a 1000$ up cable.
> 
> By the way, have anyone tried the Wagnus Sieve sheep (the old Wagnus TOTL) and how does it compares to the Tralucent Uber  (I think Anakchan used to hear them both, not so sure about this)? I really like the Tralucent Uber, but I can only use it in door when I sit.  Another question if you guys think that the Wagnus cables and PW audio cables in general (I know the sound differs from model to model) sound similar to the Uber. I've tried some cables such as Labkable Pandora, Takumi MKII,effect Mars and Leonidas lately , but I dont like them that much, wanna find something that sound similar to the Uber but easier to be carried around. Thank you


 
 I'd love to, but it is not a priority right now. If the rumour is true, I'd rather wait for Mellianus to release and get their PW Audio 1964 combo.
  
 Too bad, I thought you were set on buying the Leonidas. How was the Lionheart btw? There is a Wagnus Diamond Dust selling right now at the forum for 400 USD, seller is in Singapore. I'm guessing Wagnus silver cable and W12 would be a good combination because the two companies collaborate together in Japan.


----------



## Deezel177

wyville said:


> Any people here who wear glasses? What do you look for when searching for a new cable?
> 
> I just got my Custom Art Ei.3 and for the first time I am having comfort issues with the memory wire. It is really stiff and I can't get it to loop around my ear comfortably. The material used to cover it also feels quite hard and might be adding to the discomfort.
> 
> I asked the guys at Custom Art and they have had some customers with glasses who experience the same. They also told me that the Linum cables are a bit unreliable, which is unacceptable because I use my IEMs 8+ hours a day, and Effect Audio cables might be a bit on the thick side. I'm no sure if thickness is much of a problem because my Shure cable is a bit thicker and is still comfortable.




I'd recommend putting the memory wire between your glasses and your head, such that it's sandwiched. This will minimise movement and keep both the cable and IEM in place. Otherwise, try to get one of PWAudio's coaxial-style cables. They're designed such that they're only made up of two wires, like the 1960s. PWAudio offers lower-end options in that design if the price of the 1960s is too steep.


----------



## Wyville

ranfan said:


> I guess, thinness of the cable over-ear? So that it feels seamless when wearing glasses. Usually the 2-wire or 4-wire. Also flexible material, and non-memory wire. I usually use earbuds when wearing glasses, or not wear glasses when using IEMs. An alternative solution would be using a speaker


 
 Thanks! Speakers might work, but they're a bit cumbersome when commuting through London. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


deezel177 said:


> I'd recommend putting the memory wire between your glasses and your head, such that it's sandwiched. This will minimise movement and keep both the cable and IEM in place. Otherwise, try to get one of PWAudio's coaxial-style cables. They're designed such that they're only made up of two wires, like the 1960s. PWAudio offers lower-end options in that design if the price of the 1960s is too steep.


 
 Thanks, I will give that a go.
  
 Custom Art just came back and they offered a different cable I could try. It was cheap enough that I gave it a go. Should it not work then I can try removing the memory wire from the stock cable.


----------



## Toolman

jmills8 said:


> toolman said:
> 
> 
> > Had the first call on the Prion4 iem cable but alas I've just bought a Prion4 for my Utopia as well as a 4-wire 1960 for my iem...I had to pass on it
> ...




bought my 4-wire 1960 and I've just put on its 8-wire sibling...unreal sound stage and the bass goes way deeper than the already very impressive little brother. Anyone who have not heard this cable is highly encouraged to do so...expensive yes, but it brings so much to the table.

@jmills8...you'll regret selling it when its gone. Had many cables but this one wow me the most


----------



## coolcat

ranfan said:


> I guess, thinness of the cable over-ear? So that it feels seamless when wearing glasses. Usually the 2-wire or 4-wire. Also flexible material, and non-memory wire. I usually use earbuds when wearing glasses, or not wear glasses when using IEMs. An alternative solution would be using a speaker
> 
> I'd love to, but it is not a priority right now. If the rumour is true, I'd rather wait for Mellianus to release and get their PW Audio 1964 combo.
> 
> Too bad, I thought you were set on buying the Leonidas. How was the Lionheart btw? There is a Wagnus Diamond Dust selling right now at the forum for 400 USD, seller is in Singapore. I'm guessing Wagnus silver cable and W12 would be a good combination because the two companies collaborate together in Japan.


 
 I bought the Leo already hahaha, but I still want to know more about the other brands
  


toolman said:


> bought my 4-wire 1960 and I've just put on its 8-wire sibling...unreal sound stage and the bass goes way deeper than the already very impressive little brother. Anyone who have not heard this cable is highly encouraged to do so...expensive yes, but it brings so much to the table.
> 
> @jmills8...you'll regret selling it when its gone. Had many cables but this one wow me the most


  
 I am all hypes for the PW1960 , but have to wait until I finish my new setup and then save some money


----------



## twister6

toolman said:


> jmills8 said:
> 
> 
> > toolman said:
> ...


 
  
 Which IEM?


----------



## Toolman

twister6 said:


> Which IEM?


 
  
 My K10UA and friend's Katana and U12


----------



## Toolman

PW Audio 8 wire vs DHC Prion4



Not iem cables I know but we do have an adapter to 2pin...and it added a lot of weight and vocal extension compared to its 4 wire sibling. 

Seriously deliciously good


----------



## flinkenick

How does the Prion4 sound?


----------



## Toolman

flinkenick said:


> How does the Prion4 sound?


 

 Love my Prion4...but my *initial takeaway* was the 8-wire sounded much sweeter to my ears. Wider holographic soundstage, deeper and sweeter bass extension and presented the women's vocal the way I loved. That said, the 8-wire are perhaps a tad coloured, but in a nice way.

 You have experience with PW 1960s so you will know what I am talking about, but this 8-wire is just on another level altogether way more impressive than my 4-wire
  
 I am very hesitant to give an opinion until both cables are properly burned in, and I get to love with these for some months. I was told the 8-wire will be even better after a substantial burn-in time...so we shall see.
  
 We are talking about quite possibly 2 of the most expensive cables for headphones today, so I will definitely take my time and listened to them in ideal condition before I come to any conclusion. #bliss


----------



## blazinblazin

Does the 1960s 4wires gives you:
1) energy
2) huge soundstage with depth
3) very sweet and not so pushback vocals.
4) surrounding ambience feel

I am currently using a gold silver alloy but felt that vocal not sweet enough as its slightly backwards.


----------



## jmills8

blazinblazin said:


> Does the 1960s 4wires gives you:
> 1) energy
> 2) huge soundstage with depth
> 3) very sweet and not so pushback vocals.
> ...


Yes and a 3D sound.


----------



## tim0chan

Any opinions on the alo/ campfire audio litz and tinsel cables?


----------



## tim0chan

The tinsel cable is on sale now, so wondering if i should get


----------



## flinkenick

toolman said:


> We are talking about quite possibly 2 of the most expensive cables for headphones today, so I will definitely take my time and listened to them in ideal condition before I come to any conclusion. #bliss


 
 If you want to make things even more interesting, you should consider getting a SilverFi HR4


----------



## Watcherq

To be honest, I fell in love with the 4-wire 1960 when it was first released. Like what jmills8 said, beautiful subs stage, great detail but not gritty like another cable that I heard.

I heard that the guys at MS can do a deal if you call them in advance or drop them an email. They seem willing to negotiate on it.


----------



## twister6

watcherq said:


> To be honest, I fell in love with the 4-wire 1960 when it was first released. Like what jmills8 said, beautiful subs stage, great detail but not gritty like another cable that I heard.
> 
> I heard that the guys at MS can do a deal if you call them in advance or drop them an email. They seem willing to negotiate on it.


 
  
 Yes, definitely contact Calvin (@Kozato) at MS to see if you can work out a deal with him, he is easy going


----------



## Toolman

I would think @Watcherq is a MS regular so he'll definitely get the best deal 

...but that said, this is one cable that you'll not regret getting (after the initial sticker shock)


----------



## Watcherq

toolman said:


> I would think @Watcherq is a MS regular so he'll definitely get the best deal
> 
> ...but that said, this is one cable that you'll not regret getting (after the initial sticker shock)



Ha ha I'm there to test out the cables. The Han Audio Red Core is really good for its price and punches above its price point. It is almost as good as my Leonidas. Was thinking to go lite with that or go high with 4-wire 1960 if I liquidate my other stuff to pay for it...


----------



## ATSCODE

flinkenick said:


> If you want to make things even more interesting, you should consider getting a SilverFi HR4


 
  
 SilverFi now has the IEM-R5? You should request a review set/unit from Mr Sezai. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wouldn't be surprised to see a R6, R7, R8 and beyond in the near future.


----------



## Wyville

Okay, I'm a cable convert now. After the issues with the stock cable Custom Art sold me an Effect Audio cable and I really can't see why people are sceptical about cables, the difference is obvious. My Ei.3 have come alive, and they were pretty darn engaging and musical to begin with. I'm just now listening to 'Eroica' (Beethoven) and it is absolutely heavenly. Yesterday was the Rolling Stones album 'Blue and Lonesome', which at times sounded like I was sitting in some smoke-filled bar listening to a live performance. The atmosphere was conveyed that well. I am really impressed that a cable can fine tune IEMs this well!


----------



## flinkenick

wyville said:


> Okay, I'm a cable convert now. After the issues with the stock cable Custom Art sold me an Effect Audio cable and I really can't see why people are sceptical about cables, the difference is obvious. My Ei.3 have come alive, and they were pretty darn engaging and musical to begin with. I'm just now listening to 'Eroica' (Beethoven) and it is absolutely heavenly. Yesterday was the Rolling Stones album 'Blue and Lonesome', which at times sounded like I was sitting in some smoke-filled bar listening to a live performance. The atmosphere was conveyed that well. I am really impressed that a cable can fine tune IEMs this well!


 
 Welcome to the dark side


----------



## ranfan

flinkenick said:


> Welcome to the dark side


 
 Haha, another one arrived


----------



## blazinblazin

Gold-silver cables are posionous, dont touch them.


----------



## ezekiel77

wyville said:


> Okay, I'm a cable convert now.


 
  
 Oh dear there goes another one


----------



## Kerouac

ezekiel77 said:


> Oh dear there goes another one


 
  
 A thread full of lost souls over here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (but I'm glad to be one of them)


----------



## spw1880

More like enlightened souls..pimp my iem


----------



## Wyville

flinkenick said:


> Welcome to the dark side


 
  
 Actually, I felt the signature cleared up quite nicely! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





blazinblazin said:


> Gold-silver cables are posionous, dont touch them.


 
 Oh, but I am safe (for now). Can't afford to buy the high-end stuff.


----------



## boomtube

My Uber is FS...


----------



## bavinck

boomtube said:


> My Uber is FS...



Whatcha buy'in?


----------



## twister6

flinkenick said:


> wyville said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, I'm a cable convert now. After the issues with the stock cable Custom Art sold me an Effect Audio cable and I really can't see why people are sceptical about cables, the difference is obvious. My Ei.3 have come alive, and they were pretty darn engaging and musical to begin with. I'm just now listening to 'Eroica' (Beethoven) and it is absolutely heavenly. Yesterday was the Rolling Stones album 'Blue and Lonesome', which at times sounded like I was sitting in some smoke-filled bar listening to a live performance. The atmosphere was conveyed that well. I am really impressed that a cable can fine tune IEMs this well!
> ...


 
  
 Ironically, the "dark side" makes your sound brighter, clear, more expanded, detailed, resolving


----------



## ironpeg

boomtube said:


> My Uber is FS...


 
 Are you getting Lyft instead of Uber XD?


----------



## coolcat

boomtube said:


> My Uber is FS...


 
 I still keep my Uber,cuz it pair so well with the iSine20.


----------



## Wyville

twister6 said:


> Ironically, the "dark side" makes your sound brighter, clear, more expanded, detailed, resolving


 
 The dark side makes it sound heavenly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am quite surprised that a cable can affect so many (all) aspects of a signature in a good way. It feels like an improvement all round. My Ei.3 sound like they have been given air to breath and really show off what they can do. I hope I can say a bit more about it soon. The cable is preproduction so I have asked Piotr to check with Effect Audio what information they are happy with me to share and then I might add a section to my review of the Ei.3.


----------



## Land-O-The-Free

Hey all...I was going to see if anyone had an opinion on the difference between pure silver vs silver and gold? Thanks!


----------



## blazinblazin

Normally gold is added for warmth.


----------



## Deezel177

land-o-the-free said:


> Hey all...I was going to see if anyone had an opinion on the difference between pure silver vs silver and gold? Thanks!




As blazinblazin mentioned, gold tends to add a unique warmth to sound. While warmth is typically achieved by adding mid-bass body (ala most copper cables), I find gold smoothens/lightly smears the highs, and extends bass response to achieve the effect. 

Depending on how it's used, it can either reduce transparency, or increase realism (i.e. Cause more neutral/cold IEMs to sound more natural). I find cables like the Leonidas do a bit of both (unfortunately), while cables like the Han Sound Audio Aurora and the Leo + Mars hybrid do the latter impressively well.

On the other hand, silver cables tend to sound more linear. While the stereotypical "silver sound" is one that's bright, upper-mid focused, and analytical, I find silver cables nowadays lean more towards a balanced signature, with variations depending on the manufacturer.

The DHC Symbiote SP Type 4 Ver 3 is an example of a silver cable that's super clean, transparent, and airy, yet incredibly natural and realistic. Though, its soundstage isn't expansive and its bass is very much neutral. On the other hand, you have cables like the Thor Silver II which have treble sparkle, luscious and rich mids, and a north-of-neutral bass response; hifi-sounding. Or, the PWAudio Silver, which I find mellow, soft, and polite, and initially thought was silver-gold before finding out it was pure silver.


----------



## PinkyPowers

I published my first cable review. It was an eye-opener. I feel... contaminated. Your sins are now mine. We are as one fallen people.

*When Rudeness Wins You Over – A Review of the plusSound X6 T-Metal CIEM Cable*


----------



## flinkenick

pinkypowers said:


> I published my first cable review. It was an eye-opener. I feel... contaminated. Your sins are now mine. We are as one fallen people.
> 
> *When Rudeness Wins You Over – A Review of the plusSound X6 T-Metal CIEM Cable*


 
 Cable review Pinky-style - love it!


----------



## ranfan

pinkypowers said:


> I published my first cable review. It was an eye-opener. I feel... contaminated. Your sins are now mine. We are as one fallen people.
> 
> *When Rudeness Wins You Over – A Review of the plusSound X6 T-Metal CIEM Cable*


 
 (TOTL?) Cable shootout would be super-dope. Haha, Vergil sounds like a good name. What was the name of your U12 before?
  
 Isn't height represented by the Y-axis? Z-axis is for depth, X for width (to my understanding).

 Will be interesting to compare the T-metal with the Hybrid-Gold from plusSound.
  
 That's what you get for hanging around the dark side.


----------



## PinkyPowers

ranfan said:


> (TOTL?) Cable shootout would be super-dope. Haha, Vergil sounds like a good name. What was the name of your U12 before?
> 
> Isn't height represented by the Y-axis? Z-axis is for depth, X for width (to my understanding).
> 
> ...




You may be right. I did a quick Google when I wrote that, and the source I looked at had the Z axis as Up/Down. Perhaps I should have been more thorough.


----------



## bavinck

Doesn't matter with Axis is vertical. The key is they are all perpendicular. But, yes, traditionally z is for depth.


----------



## ranfan

bavinck said:


> Doesn't matter with Axis is vertical. The key is they are all perpendicular. But, yes, traditionally z is for depth.


 
 Yes, it doesn't. What matters is the review, which is fun and great. Pinky style  Looking forward to reading more in the future.


----------



## ezekiel77

ranfan said:


> (TOTL?) Cable shootout would be super-dope.


 
  
 (From review) "I guess two things can shoot at each other". Haha!
  


pinkypowers said:


> I published my first cable review. It was an eye-opener. I feel... contaminated. Your sins are now mine. We are as one fallen people.
> 
> *When Rudeness Wins You Over – A Review of the plusSound X6 T-Metal CIEM Cable*


 
  
 Great review Pinky! I have the previous-gen Trimetal in 2-wire which suited me just fine..


----------



## PinkyPowers

ezekiel77 said:


> (From review) "[COLOR=4D4D4D]I guess two things can shoot at each other". Haha![/COLOR]
> 
> 
> Great review Pinky! I have the previous-gen Trimetal in 2-wire which suited me just fine..




They do make a mighty fine cable. I look forward to trying new things from them in the future.


----------



## PinkyPowers

bavinck said:


> Doesn't matter with Axis is vertical. The key is they are all perpendicular. But, yes, traditionally z is for depth.




Most of the visual representations I found showed it running up and down. And the first few definitions I found said it is "usually oriented vertically." But I did find a few sources that say it represents depth in a 3D plane. So... confusion.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND, INTERNET!


----------



## tangents

I like to think X and Y together represent the two dimensional plane perpendicular to my point of view, like a piece of paper floating in front of my face. Zed is always coming straight out at me to poke me in the eye.


----------



## bavinck

pinkypowers said:


> Most of the visual representations I found showed it running up and down. And the first few definitions I found said it is "usually oriented vertically." But I did find a few sources that say it represents depth in a 3D plane. So... confusion.
> 
> MAKE UP YOUR MIND, INTERNET!



It's pedantic at a certain point. The idea is to convey 3d imaging which you did. The rest is semantics and tradition. Ha!


----------



## Dan E

Hi everyone,
  
 Last night I've published a cable review about the SilverFi IEM-R2. The cable is outstanding, among the best I have ever heard. Feel free to share and comment 
  
  
*SilverFi R2 review*
  
Best,
Dan


----------



## flinkenick

Where's the facebook heart like when you need it. I HEART this review. R2 is a fantastic cable, sometimes I miss it. But it's hard to feel bad while I'm listening to R4.


----------



## SeeSax

pinkypowers said:


> I published my first cable review. It was an eye-opener. I feel... contaminated. Your sins are now mine. We are as one fallen people.
> 
> *When Rudeness Wins You Over – A Review of the plusSound X6 T-Metal CIEM Cable*


 
  
 I loved that review. You and @flinkenick have a way with words that make me want to spent my yearly salary on cables. I own the Solar, so this review resonated with me. Now, my OCD (self-diagnosed) dictates that I have to leave a Rhapsodio cable (currently Luna mk2) paired with my Solar, but maybe that will change when I get the Tri-Metal in. I mean, the SG 2.98 is now affixed to my S-EM9 permanently, so stranger things have happened. 
  
 Cheers, 
  
 -Collin-


----------



## tim0chan

flinkenick said:


> Where's the facebook heart like when you need it. I HEART this review. R2 is a fantastic cable, sometimes I miss it. But it's hard to feel bad while I'm listening to R4.



have you checked out han sound audio's aurora cable yet?


----------



## ezekiel77

Did some impressions of PW Audio's No.5 cable in the link below.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/739745/oriolus-hybrid-iem/750#post_13435691
  
 Not exactly high-end but it's one of the more popular cables around, as with other things named No.5 (Chanel, Hungarian Dance, Mambo).
  
 Now if someone would lend me a 1960s cable to listen to...


----------



## flinkenick

tim0chan said:


> have you checked out han sound audio's aurora cable yet?


 
 Yes I've listened to it.


----------



## ezekiel77

Cable comparison: *PW No.5* (copper) vs *Effect Audio Eros I* (copper/silver hybrid)
 Source: QP1R
 IEM: W900
 Songs tested: Daft Punk - Lose Yourself To Dance, Kings of Leon - Use Somebody
  
 This is a safe place, no preamble needed!
  
*Ergonomics:*
 Good news for those who hate memory wire: both use pre-bent heatshrink. In terms of comfort and feel, No.5 is probably the best cable I've handled. Feels great and photographs damn well. They behave. The Eros I is a bit stiffer, not that supple or soft, but is good for the most part. They comply about 50% of the time but prone to uncoiling when they feel bored. I do like the two-tone colour action though.
  
  

_The "butterfly effect" of the Eros I._
  
  
*Sound impressions:*
 I'm surprised the Eros I bass (subbass and midbass) is slightly boomier than the No.5. It's fun, but for not-so-good mastering like the KOL song, the bass guitar at the intro is not as well-defined as No.5. No.5 has more refinement and restraint in comparison. Mids and vocals, that's the No.5's forte, and when the vocal hits in Lose Yourself to Dance you notice how silky-smooth the voice is. Eros I has clearer, edgier note attacks, more apparent detail but not as natural-sounding as No.5. For treble, Eros I has the upper hand with a more lively and detailed treble. The shorter decay leads to a crispier top end, while No.5 sounds blunted in comparison. Soundstage size, both are similar. For separation and imaging, Eros I edges ahead of No.5. The robot going "c'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon" in the Daft Punk song, you can clearly hear it make its way from either side of the ear towards the centre (and slightly above eye level). That's good imaging.
  
 Overall, the PW No.5 is like an iron, warms up and smoothens the sound somewhat, without sacrificing detail. I like its rounded-off edges and laid-back demeanour. A great signature to unwind with, also helps that the colour reminds me of cognac. The Eros I inherits the classic sound characteristics of copper and silver. Emphasised lower end, yet sharpness in attack, blending together for a full, detailed sound. 
  
*Conclusion:*
 Both are great cables to consider at the less-than-$200 mark. They have complementary signatures. No.5 for lounging, and Eros I for a fun night out. Nothing beats the No.5 in ergonomics and comfort so far though.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Nice *ezekiel77*. Thanks for sharing.

My second review is up...

*Her Sweet Song Upon the Air – A Review of the ALO Audio Reference 8 CIEM Cable*


----------



## ezekiel77

pinkypowers said:


> Nice *ezekiel77*. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> My second review is up...
> 
> *Her Sweet Song Upon the Air – A Review of the ALO Audio Reference 8 CIEM Cable*


 
  
 I've heard the ALO Ref 16 for headphones. One of my favourites!


----------



## PinkyPowers

ezekiel77 said:


> I've heard the ALO Ref 16 for headphones. One of my favourites!




I'd love to get my hands on that.


----------



## Toolman

ezekiel77 said:


> Cable comparison: *PW No.5* (copper) vs *Effect Audio Eros I* (copper/silver hybrid)




I have PW No.5, EA Eros II and a Han ZEN 8-wire...will have sorta Ménage à trois and see who comes out on top 

Maybe my Redcore will join in for the fun as well


----------



## ezekiel77

toolman said:


> I have PW No.5, EA Eros II and a Han ZEN 8-wire...will have sorta Ménage à trois and see who comes out on top
> 
> Maybe my Redcore will join in for the fun as well




Party time! What's the Han Zen?


----------



## tim0chan

ezekiel77 said:


> Party time! What's the Han Zen?



New stuff at music sanctuary
Look under han sound audio brand


----------



## twister6

toolman said:


> ezekiel77 said:
> 
> 
> > Cable comparison: *PW No.5* (copper) vs *Effect Audio Eros I* (copper/silver hybrid)
> ...


 
  
 I'm actually planning to have a little write up soon, about PWA No 5, EA Ares II, and Han Zen 4wire - 3 pure copper budget cables ($149 each).  Will see how they compare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also, got Han Aurora for testing, GREAT cable, and looks beautiful (that custom y-splitter with chin slider is really nice) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Han Sound Audio cables is a new addition to Music Sanctuary: https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/han-sound-audio


----------



## Toolman

twister6 said:


> toolman said:
> 
> 
> > ezekiel77 said:
> ...




1. Must correct my post above. It should read EA Ares II and *NOT* _Eros II_

2. Look out for Han's *Twin Dragon* soon


----------



## jmills8




----------



## Wyville

ezekiel77 said:


> The Eros I inherits the classic sound characteristics of copper and silver. Emphasised lower end, yet sharpness in attack, blending together for a full, detailed sound.


 
  
 Ah, so I didn't imagine it. I recently got a silver plated copper cable from Effect Audio (not Thor) and despite not having any experience with cables I felt there was more body and impact to the bass, smoother and clearer mids and more sparkle in the treble to create a lively and detailed sound.


----------



## Morimoriya 62

Cable vital part of the music:rolleyes:


----------



## ranfan

morimoriya 62 said:


> Cable vital part of the music:rolleyes:


 
 What are the two on the right?


----------



## Morimoriya 62

ranfan said:


> morimoriya 62 said:
> 
> 
> > Cable vital part of the music:rolleyes:
> ...



Plussound SPC X8
Silvergarde S Norne AUDIO


----------



## coolcat

Has anyone tried Brimar Supreme Reference 4X or 8X ?


----------



## Toolman

coolcat said:


> Has anyone tried Brimar Supreme Reference 4X or 8X ?



Not sure if its this one...?


----------



## ranfan

-deleted-


----------



## tangents

morimoriya 62 said:


> Cable vital part of the music:rolleyes:


 
  
 Is that a ALO Ref-8 with black splitter/slider?


----------



## Morimoriya 62

tangents said:


> morimoriya 62 said:
> 
> 
> > Cable vital part of the music:rolleyes:
> ...



Yes very nice cable


----------



## ezekiel77

coolcat said:


> Has anyone tried Brimar Supreme Reference 4X or 8X ?




King Rudi on fb is a fan of Brimar.


----------



## ezekiel77

Has anyone tried Ted Headphone Lounge's T2 silver cable? How are they versus the other silver cables in the market?


----------



## ranfan

-deleted-


----------



## coolcat

toolman said:


> Not sure if its this one...?


 
 yes that one I think


----------



## coolcat

ranfan said:


> Tried them during CanJam, but prefer Labkable (Titan, Pandora, or Samurai) for their better value.
> 
> What kind of cable are you looking for? Leonidas is not enough, eh


 
 Leonidas is a great, great cable. I prefer the Leonidas to DHC sp8,Mars and even Pandora (great cable, but I just dont have iems to match it)  everything is like MikePortnoy point out "but the Leonidas provides better texture and it hits from a more distant area in the stage. It has a little more quantity in mid-bass region" 
 the Problem is there in the midbass, it adds more body to the Witch Girl 12,which already have a heavy bass. The result is too much bass for me and the low end lose control a little bit.
 Actually I am interested in  Wagnus Thunderer Wand "Shanti" ,which is built to be the Witch Girl 12 companion.
  
  
 But the japan distributer does not want to ship the cable aboard.
 The reason I asked about the Brimar, because there is a cheap offer in the classified right now (almost half the price). Thank for the advice
  
  


ezekiel77 said:


> King Rudi on fb is a fan of Brimar.


 
 Thank you for the Info mate


----------



## ranfan

There is a Wagnus silver cable on sale at the classifieds. The seller is in Singapore. But if you'd like to get a Brimar then it is for you to decide.

You can try proxy shopping from cdjapan.co.jp. They can buy the cable from Wagnus or Fujiya in Japan, and send it through EMS to you.


----------



## fuhransahis

What type of cable would be best suited to improve vocals? I'm using the Campfire Vega with the DX200, and just bought a balanced pure copper (26awg) cable from Impact Audio, which looks fantastic and feels very well built, and gives the best bass I've heard but I feel the vocals take a little step back, and I'm thinking it might be the pure copper.

My budget is $400 max, was considering an option from Effect Audio perhaps. Would prefer to keep the strong bass so maybe a copper/silver like the Eros?


----------



## spw1880

fuhransahis said:


> What type of cable would be best suited to improve vocals? I'm using the Campfire Vega with the DX200, and just bought a balanced pure copper (26awg) cable from Impact Audio, which looks fantastic and feels very well built, and gives the best bass I've heard but I feel the vocals take a little step back, and I'm thinking it might be the pure copper.
> 
> My budget is $400 max, was considering an option from Effect Audio perhaps. Would prefer to keep the strong bass so maybe a copper/silver like the Eros?




I recommend oc studio zues silver or orpheus copper. Excellent perfoming cables. I own the 8 braid for both. I would go as far as to say the zeus is more resolving and detailed than the thor silver ii+ that i own. They are cheaper too. Certified upocc wire from neotech. You may not get more bass, just excellent balanced quality bass from the zues. The orpheous with the pure copper plug really really works wonders with midrange while still doing great bass and extended highs just not as fast the silver. And they all are within 200usd to 250usd. This brand really shakes up the price performance scale for cables in my humble opinion.


----------



## PinkyPowers

fuhransahis said:


> What type of cable would be best suited to improve vocals? I'm using the Campfire Vega with the DX200, and just bought a balanced pure copper (26awg) cable from Impact Audio, which looks fantastic and feels very well built, and gives the best bass I've heard but I feel the vocals take a little step back, and I'm thinking it might be the pure copper.
> 
> My budget is $400 max, was considering an option from Effect Audio perhaps. Would prefer to keep the strong bass so maybe a copper/silver like the Eros?




Reference 8 is a great option for vocals.


----------



## fuhransahis

spw1880 said:


> I recommend oc studio zues silver or orpheus copper. Excellent perfoming cables. I own the 8 braid for both. I would go as far as to say the zeus is more resolving and detailed than the thor silver ii+ that i own. They are cheaper too. Certified upocc wire from neotech. You may not get more bass, just excellent balanced quality bass from the zues. The orpheous with the pure copper plug really really works wonders with midrange while still doing great bass and extended highs just not as fast the silver. And they all are within 200usd to 250usd. This brand really shakes up the price performance scale for cables in my humble opinion.



Having a bit of a hard time finding a store to look into these more as all the sites seem to be in Chinese, any suggested sites? 



pinkypowers said:


> Reference 8 is a great option for vocals.



I originally wanted the Ref 8 but as great as it may sound, I will be using it on my commute as well, and I read a review stating that humanity has never created a more microphonic cable


----------



## ezekiel77

fuhransahis said:


> What type of cable would be best suited to improve vocals? I'm using the Campfire Vega with the DX200, and just bought a balanced pure copper (26awg) cable from Impact Audio, which looks fantastic and feels very well built, and gives the best bass I've heard but I feel the vocals take a little step back, and I'm thinking it might be the pure copper.
> 
> My budget is $400 max, was considering an option from Effect Audio perhaps. Would prefer to keep the strong bass so maybe a copper/silver like the Eros?




I think PW No.5 is great for vocals. Eros I gave me a more V-shaped sound, didn't really affect the mids much.


----------



## PinkyPowers

fuhransahis said:


> I originally wanted the Ref 8 but as great as it may sound, I will be using it on my commute as well, and I read a review stating that humanity has never created a more microphonic cable




What nonsense.


----------



## blazinblazin

I would say Ref 8 is a bit noisy compared to other thicker cables like Effect Audio Leonidas.
 When you walk and the cable hitting against you body, will produce this vibrating/bouncy noise.
  
 Ref 8 wire is actually stiff but due to the wire is thin it gives you the more flexible feel.


----------



## EagleWings

fuhransahis said:


> What type of cable would be best suited to improve vocals? I'm using the Campfire Vega with the DX200, and just bought a balanced pure copper (26awg) cable from Impact Audio, which looks fantastic and feels very well built, and gives the best bass I've heard but I feel the vocals take a little step back, and I'm thinking it might be the pure copper.
> 
> My budget is $400 max, was considering an option from Effect Audio perhaps. Would prefer to keep the strong bass so maybe a copper/silver like the Eros?


 

 I believe what you need is a cable with a mid-centric sound with a focus on tonality. Flinkenick recently reviewed the PlusSound Audio's X8 Gold Plated Copper(GPC) cable, which seems to have that sound.

 Now, the X8 is a 8 wire version and costs double your budget. Plussound Audio has the same cable in the 4 wire form called the Exo Series cable. You may want to PM Christian (@PLUSSOUND) and find out if the Exo GPC (4 wire version) has the same tonality as the X8 GPC (8 wire version). If yes, then that'd be your golden ticket as the price of the Exo GPC is $400 and they are currently running a 5% off promotion.


----------



## ranfan

Apparently, plusSound has a new offer/release:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701384/plussound-audio-thread/450#post_13449937
  
 This is so exciting


----------



## PinkyPowers

Those fiends! They didn't tell me!


----------



## ranfan

pinkypowers said:


> Those fiends! They didn't tell me!


 


plussound said:


> Something new is coming. Stay tuned for the unveiling.​


 
  
 They did give a tease, for 24/4. But it did not reach Pinky I guess. Cheeky


----------



## PinkyPowers

ranfan said:


> They did give a tease, for 24/4. But it did not reach Pinky I guess. Cheeky




I've been in bed with them for months, and no pillow talk. What is this world coming it?


----------



## Toolman

A piece of meat ?


----------



## Law87

fuhransahis said:


> Having a bit of a hard time finding a store to look into these more as all the sites seem to be in Chinese, any suggested sites?
> I originally wanted the Ref 8 but as great as it may sound, I will be using it on my commute as well, and I read a review stating that humanity has never created a more microphonic cable


 


 I do have one for sale when I bought my W80. If you want to reconsider then let me know, the cable is stiff, but microphonic is not as bad as people make it out to be, if you use the choke it also helps.


----------



## fuhransahis

law87 said:


> I do have one for sale when I bought my W80. If you want to reconsider then let me know, the cable is stiff, but microphonic is not as bad as people make it out to be, if you use the choke it also helps.



Sending PM!


----------



## fuhransahis

From what I understand, you get better sound benefits by choosing a thicker cable gauge then you do from choosing copper vs silver, for example.

So which would be better, then - an 8 wire with 32awg strands or a 4-wire with 26awg strands?

Assume the materials are the same (Cooper x4 and SPC x4 in the 8-wire, and copper x2 SPC x2 in the 4-wire).

I'm considering a custom 8-wire with 26awg strands but wondering if it might be too unwieldy for portable use with the Vega...


----------



## blazinblazin

There's actually no better between thick or thin, it depends on what sound you are looking for.

Thicker/more wire might need more power to drive.


----------



## Law87

blazinblazin said:


> There's actually no better between thick or thin, it depends on what sound you are looking for.
> 
> Thicker/more wire might need more power to drive.


 



 For IEM, Negligible :/.


----------



## fuhransahis

Law87 said:


> For IEM, Negligible :/.


Thanks for the feedback. Sure doesn't make the search for an upgrade cable any easier though lol...

So... a cable upgrade won't be noticeable with an IEM in general? Even one like the Vega? Or is it that the type of cable will make more of a difference than the thickness or wire count?


----------



## jmills8

He did not say that. He is focusing if a thin cable to a thicker cable sound different.


----------



## Law87

fuhransahis said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Sure doesn't make the search for an upgrade cable any easier though lol...
> 
> So... a cable upgrade won't be noticeable with an IEM in general? Even one like the Vega? Or is it that the type of cable will make more of a difference than the thickness or wire count?




The composition of the material is more important than the guage of the cable, generally you would want something light and flexible, anything heavy and stiff tends to be microphonic.


----------



## ezekiel77

Has anyone tried stuff from OC cable from Taiwan? They seem to have good prices for 8-braids.


----------



## ironpeg

I did. will put my review soon.
I have Orpheus Mk5, Zeus, and Au X all 8 wires.


----------



## ezekiel77

Thanks man. You have a lot of experience with EA cables as well. I'm sure the reviews will turn out great.


----------



## soundify

I'm kind of confused with the higher range of OC cable range. Could someone explain what are the materials used for Grace 2 and OC AU X?


----------



## chaiyuta

ironpeg : Wow it's great. Since you own a lot of High-end cables. You might decribe the comparsion between OC cables and others widely. Look forward to your review.


----------



## chaiyuta

soundify said:


> I'm kind of confused with the higher range of OC cable range. Could someone explain what are the materials used for Grace 2 and OC AU X?



Grace 2 = Silver (UEX) 4 wires + Gold-plated Silver (AUX) 4 wires.
AUX = Gold-plated Silver 4 wires or 8 wires.


----------



## ezekiel77

@soundify their website is www.originalcable.com, their online shop isn't working yet but you can browse their products.


----------



## fuhransahis (Apr 29, 2017)

jmills8 said:


> He did not say that. He is focusing if a thin cable to a thicker cable sound different.


Hence why I asked if what he was saying is that the cable type makes more of a difference than the thickness or count.

Still taking forever to decide... in between the Ref 8 (some say it's too microhphonic), the Plussound X6 SPC, Effect Audio Thor Silver II, OC Monarch, Labkables 8 Wire Silver Galaxy Mix, Silverfi IEM2, and PWAudio Blackicon Pure Silver 4 Wire.

Edit: add the Plussound Exo with T Metal... may end up with that one thanks to the review @PinkyPowers wrote on the 6 wire version


----------



## flinkenick

I've mentioned SilverFi a couple of times here, as it is a very special brand. I've been working on a review of what used to be their flagship cable, up until the moment I received mine hehe. Sezai released R5 shortly after, but I might get a chance to try it in the near future.

This won't be a cable for everybody due to its unconventional build and most of all price, but I hope you nevertheless enjoy the review.

http://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r4-cable-royalty/


----------



## EagleWings

Great review as usual man. The way you have described the soundstage on this cable, it looks like it would be an endgame for a stage-head like myself. 

I know its an unfair question as you heard the Leonidas almost a year back, but from your memory, how would you compare the stage and tone between the R4 and the Leo?


----------



## flinkenick

From memory Leonidas has a relatively uncolored signature, that tends towards reference with a fun element - its bass. There's a lot of dynamism in its hits, its a very clear impact because of the way the treble colours it. I think the upper bass is laidback, so the midrange isn't inherently warm. But its transparency benefits from the bass, as does the airiness of the stage. I remember Leonidas creating a very clean stage, which aids the separation. I think it didn't necessarily create a wider stage, although it added some depth.

R4's midrange is slightly warmer, partially due to a slightly attenuated treble. The R4's treble is warmer and smoother in tone. R4's stage is larger in all directions, but in all fairness, that counts for every cable  Especially the difference in width is significant, although I'd imagine it's also deeper.


----------



## EagleWings

Thanks buddy. I knew I was inviting trouble with that question. The R4 is officially on my bucket list now. Sometimes, ignorance is bliss after all. He he.

Oh btw, how does it pair with the Zeus in aspects other than the stage?


----------



## EagleWings

Also, does it widen the stage further of IEMs that already have a wide stage such as W900 and A18?


----------



## ranfan (May 8, 2017)

Exquisite cable, if not the most I've seen. Add that with your well-written review, I'm super-awed. Especially like this picture, beautifully laid there on the hard wooden surface, pure and photographed. Thanks Nic (I saved most of them to my computer. Gotta look at them again someday. And perhaps, have it).


Spoiler


----------



## flinkenick

ranfan said:


> Exquisite cable, if not the most I've seen. Add that with your well-written review, I'm super-awed. Especially like this picture, beautifully laid there on the hard wooden surface, pure and photographed. Thanks Nic (I saved most of them to my computer. Gotta look at them again someday. And perhaps, have it).


Thanks buddy that's very kind of you


----------



## flinkenick (May 8, 2017)

EagleWings said:


> Oh btw, how does it pair with the Zeus in aspects other than the stage?





EagleWings said:


> Also, does it widen the stage further of IEMs that already have a wide stage such as W900 and A18?


The pairing with Zeus is sublime to say the least. The sound is very spacious in all directions, and the tone is smooth and natural.

The question of A18 is very interesting. I had actually written a full paragraph on the matter in an earlier version. The A18's width with a stock cable is reflective of how wide the stage of an iem like Zeus or S-EM9 can get when paired to R4. Interestingly, the width does not increase when paired with R4. A18's very wide stage can be at least partially attributed to its extreme treble extension, combined with its 7 KHz peak. R4 cannot improve an extension that already reaches that far; in a way, their extension is similar. However, it can reduce the peakiness of the upper treble, resulting in a blacker background. So while A18's width does not improve, the ease of the image does. The presentation itself becomes more stable, more natural. In addition, the depth and layering improves, resulting in a more organised presentation. I'm not just copying that from the review; that line in the review was inspired by the pairing with A18. The different layers are more fixated in their respective rows so to speak. So all in all, while the width does not improve, the presentation as a whole is more organised, and the separation is better.

ps. W900 has recessed sockets so I couldn't test. A18 also standard has recessed sockets, but I left a note for it to be non-recessed if possible and luckily they complied.


----------



## noplsestar (May 9, 2017)

flinkenick said:


> ps. W900 has recessed sockets so I couldn't test. A18 also standard has recessed sockets, but I left a note for it to be non-recessed if possible and luckily they complied.




Does it mean that I would only be able to cable roll with IEM´s that don't have recessed sockets? Or is it especially and only necessary for the R4?


----------



## flinkenick

noplsestar said:


> Does it mean that I would only be able to cable roll with IEM´s that don't have recessed sockets? Or is it especially and only necessary for the R4?


No you can cable roll will recessed sockets, it just concerns the R4. But maybe Sezai will use different connectors at some point.


----------



## EagleWings

flinkenick said:


> The pairing with Zeus is sublime to say the least. The sound is very spacious in all directions, and the tone is smooth and natural.
> 
> The question of A18 is very interesting. I had actually written a full paragraph on the matter in an earlier version. The A18's width with a stock cable is reflective of how wide the stage of an iem like Zeus or S-EM9 can get when paired to R4. Interestingly, the width does not increase when paired with R4. A18's very wide stage can be at least partially attributed to its extreme treble extension, combined with its 7 KHz peak. R4 cannot improve an extension that already reaches that far; in a way, their extension is similar. However, it can reduce the peakiness of the upper treble, resulting in a blacker background. So while A18's width does not improve, the ease of the image does. The presentation itself becomes more stable, more natural. In addition, the depth and layering improves, resulting in a more organised presentation. I'm not just copying that from the review; that line in the review was inspired by the pairing with A18. The different layers are more fixated in their respective rows so to speak. So all in all, while the width does not improve, the presentation as a whole is more organised, and the separation is better.
> 
> ps. W900 has recessed sockets so I couldn't test. A18 also standard has recessed sockets, but I left a note for it to be non-recessed if possible and luckily they complied.



Thanks again Nic. Very interesting. I can only imagine how expansive and sweet, Zeus must sound with the increased width and the smooth tone.


----------



## ezekiel77

flinkenick said:


> W900 has recessed sockets so I couldn't test. A18 also standard has recessed sockets, but I left a note for it to be non-recessed if possible and luckily they complied.



Whew, thanks! No worry about spending for me!


----------



## Wyville

ezekiel77 said:


> Whew, thanks! No worry about spending for me!


Were you considering it? If I would say to my wife: "_Hey hun, look at this nice cable. I might do an upgrade._" Her answer would be: "_Hey hun, look at this frying pan!_" _**BOING**_ 

Although at the risk of sudden loss of consciousness... I do understand Nic. I used to be much the same before life got in the way.


----------



## twister6

Guys, this came as a bit of a surprise to me, but figured to post it here.  As some of you probably aware, iBasso stepped into cable waters with CB12, their 8-conductor cable (4 spc + 4 pure copper), mmcx, 2.5mm balanced termination.  That was their "budget" $89 cable offering, actually a must if you have their IT03 hybrid, and great with any other iems.  Now, they came up with CB13, and when I heard the asking price of $199, I thought, OK under $100 CB12 was reasonable but an upgraded CB13 version with double the price?  Got a sample for review last night, from @Paul - iBasso , and will share sound impressions once I hit 150-200hrs burn in mark, but this is a real deal pro cable.  I'm actually very surprised, pleasantly surprised that is.

CB13 also has 8 conductors, this one with 4 pure silver single crystal 5N purity wires and 4 pure copper single crystal 6N purity wires.  Don't know exact gauge, but they are on a thicker side, yet still very pliable/flexible, and a rather nice braiding workmanship.  2.5mm balanced terminated with an interesting connector, looks like metal but has a rubbery translucent skin over the top, the same with y-splitter, and a rubber chin slider.  I have only tried it with IT03, so after burn in will try with different iems, but it does look legit, a quality $200 hybrid with pure silver and pure copper.















This is how CB12 looks next to CB13


----------



## Kerouac (May 9, 2017)

twister6 said:


> Guys, this came as a bit of a surprise to me, but figured to post it here.  As some of you probably aware, iBasso stepped into cable waters with CB12, their 8-conductor cable (4 spc + 4 pure copper), mmcx, 2.5mm balanced termination.  That was their "budget" $89 cable offering, actually a must if you have their IT03 hybrid, and great with any other iems.  Now, they came up with CB13, and when I heard the asking price of $199, I thought, OK under $100 CB12 was reasonable but an upgraded CB13 version with double the price?  Got a sample for review last night, from @Paul - iBasso , and will share sound impressions once I hit 150-200hrs burn in mark, but this is a real deal pro cable.  I'm actually very surprised, pleasantly surprised that is.
> 
> CB13 also has 8 conductors, this one with 4 pure silver single crystal 5N purity wires and 4 pure copper single crystal 6N purity wires.  Don't know exact gauge, but they are on a thicker side, yet still very pliable/flexible, and a rather nice braiding workmanship.  2.5mm balanced terminated with an interesting connector, looks like metal but has a rubbery translucent skin over the top, the same with y-splitter, and a rubber chin slider.  I have only tried it with IT03, so after burn in will try with different iems, but it does look legit, a quality $200 hybrid with pure silver and pure copper.
> 
> ...



I'm looking forward to your sound impressions (review?) on this cable and especially how it performs vs the (cheaper) CB12. 

Within some months I will get a dap with balanced out (probably the new AK Kann) and then I will choose one of these 2 cables to use with IT03 / Andromeda


----------



## fzman

So, I am wondering how you can take a massive bundle of conductors and properly terminate all of those strands into tiny connectors like mmcx, 2-pin, 2.5mm trrs, or even a 3.5mm trs with a huge barrel.  Or, are they shaving strands at the ends?  In any case, are any of these "bigger" cables even remotely suitable for mobility?  How long before they simply snap and break?  Not trolling, just curious where the boundary is for using them with iems, having the iems stay properly sealed, and that you can actually walk around with.....  I am cable hunting, and really am curious before I buy the wrong cable......


Help!


----------



## ranfan

twister6 said:


> Guys, this came as a bit of a surprise to me, but figured to post it here.  As some of you probably aware, iBasso stepped into cable waters with CB12, their 8-conductor cable (4 spc + 4 pure copper), mmcx, 2.5mm balanced termination.  That was their "budget" $89 cable offering, actually a must if you have their IT03 hybrid, and great with any other iems.  Now, they came up with CB13, and when I heard the asking price of $199, I thought, OK under $100 CB12 was reasonable but an upgraded CB13 version with double the price?  Got a sample for review last night, from @Paul - iBasso , and will share sound impressions once I hit 150-200hrs burn in mark, but this is a real deal pro cable.  I'm actually very surprised, pleasantly surprised that is.



Wow, CB13 looks very similar to my plusSound Gold-Hybrid, but with 2/10 of the price haha. Aesthetically, I'm impressed. Look forward to reading more from your review twister6, thanks 



fzman said:


> So, I am wondering how you can take a massive bundle of conductors and properly terminate all of those strands into tiny connectors like mmcx, 2-pin, 2.5mm trrs, or even a 3.5mm trs with a huge barrel.  Or, are they shaving strands at the ends?  In any case, are any of these "bigger" cables even remotely suitable for mobility?  How long before they simply snap and break?  Not trolling, just curious where the boundary is for using them with iems, having the iems stay properly sealed, and that you can actually walk around with.....  I am cable hunting, and really am curious before I buy the wrong cable......



Everything can be solved with enough tape, or in this case double/triple heatshrinks, haha. You can try using clip too while walking around. The best way I think is to try one directly, at your local shop or with a friend. If you want to take the risk, you could try buying the less expensive used ones at the classifieds, asking about them beforehand. IMO


----------



## Sound Eq (May 12, 2017)

i want to ask please. so i ordered a cable from yy pro audio called the saturn, and with all honesty it took my shure 846 to  whole new level, first it gave way bigger sound stage , better bass and also with that cable the sound is louder even than stock which is something i did not expect, so everything sound wise is amazing. Now here is the problem the sound cuts out on the left side with this cable while other cables i have are not cutting out. Second problem it turned green which is ok with me.

Now I am in the market for a cable that can really give the same notable difference like the yy pro audio cable but without having this cut out issue. Any solid recommendation for a cable that does not cost an arm and leg.

this is the only time I hear a solid difference between 3rd party cable and stock cable. from what i read is that shure 846 is very picky about impedance and I have no knowledge or experience what to look for in a new cable, so yy pro audio cable with shure 846 sounded amazing


----------



## ranfan

Sound Eq said:


> i want to ask please. so i ordered a cable from yy pro audio called the saturn, and with all honesty it took my shure 846 to  whole new level, first it gave way bigger sound stage , better bass and also with that cable the sound is louder even than stock which is something i did not expect, so everything sound wise is amazing. Now here is the problem the sound cuts out on the left side with this cable while other cables i have are not cutting out. Second problem it turned green which is ok with me.
> 
> Now I am in the market for a cable that can really give the same notable difference like the yy pro audio cable but without having this cut out issue. Any solid recommendation for a cable that does not cost an arm and leg.
> 
> this is the only time I hear a solid difference between 3rd party cable and stock cable. from what i read is that shure 846 is very picky about impedance and I have no knowledge or experience what to look for in a new cable, so yy pro audio cable with shure 846 sounded amazing


Have you tried cleaning or changing the termination? The jack and pin. Perhaps it was due to poor contact area


----------



## Kerouac (May 12, 2017)

Sound Eq said:


> i want to ask please. so i ordered a cable from yy pro audio called the saturn, and with all honesty it took my shure 846 to  whole new level, first it gave way bigger sound stage , better bass and also with that cable the sound is louder even than stock which is something i did not expect, so everything sound wise is amazing. Now here is the problem the sound cuts out on the left side with this cable while other cables i have are not cutting out. Second problem it turned green which is ok with me.
> 
> Now I am in the market for a cable that can really give the same notable difference like the yy pro audio cable but without having this cut out issue. Any solid recommendation for a cable that does not cost an arm and leg.
> 
> this is the only time I hear a solid difference between 3rd party cable and stock cable. from what i read is that shure 846 is very picky about impedance and I have no knowledge or experience what to look for in a new cable, so yy pro audio cable with shure 846 sounded amazing



I've got the YY Pro Tucana over here, which is also a great sounding cable.

As far as I know, YY Pro Audio (based in HK) has a 1 yr warranty on their cables (mine came in a wooden box with a warranty card), so you probably can contact them to get the cut out (and maybe even greenish) part fixed for probably shipping costs only. But before that, I would certainly check what @ranfan wrote (great advise) on the former page...


----------



## Sound Eq

Kerouac said:


> I've got the YY Pro Tucana over here, which is also a great sounding cable.
> 
> As far as I know, YY Pro Audio (based in HK) has a 1 yr warranty on their cables (mine came in a wooden box with a warranty card), so you probably can contact them to get the cut out (and maybe even greenish) part fixed for probably shipping costs only. But before that, I would certainly check what @ranfan wrote (great advise) on the former page...



well my friend what shall I tell, I did not want to talk about it how I will never ever buy anything from them again, as I asked them to look into those issues and simply they sent that they will not and consider greening part of users fault, and the issue about cut they did not even think to reply about it although i asked twice


----------



## Sound Eq

ranfan said:


> Have you tried cleaning or changing the termination? The jack and pin. Perhaps it was due to poor contact area


yes i did try to see if cleaning it will do anything but nothing helps


----------



## Kerouac

Sound Eq said:


> well my friend what shall I tell, I did not want to talk about it how I will never ever buy anything from them again, as I asked them to look into those issues and simply they sent that they will not and consider greening part of users fault, and the issue about cut they did not even think to reply about it although i asked twice



Hmmm, sorry to read that 
I thought they would have/provide better after sales service than that.

Greening (although it doesn't influence the sq afaik) happens to a lot of copper cables. Sound cut outs are a much bigger problem of course...


----------



## Sound Eq

Kerouac said:


> Hmmm, sorry to read that
> I thought they would have/provide better after sales service than that.
> 
> Greening (although it doesn't influence the sq afaik) happens to a lot of copper cables. Sound cut outs are a much bigger problem of course...


that is why i am never buying from them again as I bought 2 cables and they do not care at all about after sales service related to cut out, unless you live there and meet them in person maybe


----------



## ranfan

Sound Eq said:


> yes i did try to see if cleaning it will do anything but nothing helps


I'm sorry to hear. I guess, if you still want to, you can try reterminating the pin and/or jack. But there is the possibility that the cable is the faulty one, so this won't solve.

I'd recommend PlusSound. A consideration for your next cable


----------



## Vitor Valeri (May 12, 2017)

@Sound Eq , I recommend @EffectAudio  cables. The cables are very well made and also have a great service!

Effect Audio cables thread: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/


----------



## flinkenick

The sound cuts are a common problem with mmcx connectors. I've also had it a couple of times and its very annoying, which is why I'm glad nearly all high end iems use 2-pin. I think just reterminating the faulty side should do the trick, you can have that done by most cable manufacturers or just a DIY-er if you know one.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 12, 2017)

for me i need to know which one is the most reliable company that will stand behind their customer in case the connectors cut out, and not leave me standing there with no support or step up to their responsibility, as what bugged me bout yy pro audio they did not even consider the cut out issue at all

then the second question is which cable to buy to give a real noticeable improvement in sound that increases the sound stage and maintains amazing bass and full mids with warmth that does not cost an arm and a leg, the saturn is amazing sound wise and is thick an 8 core cable and when new looks amazing, before i literally never believed in cables but the change is really huge between stock and using saturn, i have an Effect Audio Eros 4-wire and the difference between stock and eros 4 is not that huge as with saturn


----------



## Vitor Valeri (May 12, 2017)

Sound Eq said:


> for me i need to know which one is the most reliable company that will stand behind their customer in case the connectors cut out, and not leave me standing there with no support or step up to their responsibility, as what bugged me bout yy pro audio they did not even consider the cut out issue at all
> 
> then the second question is which cable to buy to give a real noticeable improvement in sound that increases the sound stage and maintains amazing bass and full mids with warmth that does not cost an arm and a leg, the saturn is amazing sound wise and is thick an 8 core cable and when new looks amazing, before i literally never believed in cables but the change is really huge between stock and using saturn, i have an Effect Audio Eros 4-wire and the difference between stock and eros 4 is not that huge as with saturn



Saturn is a copper cable while the Eros has silver wires and copper wires, it is not the direct competitor (the sound is different). The direct competitor of YY PRO Audio Saturn is the Effect Audio Ares II or the Ares II +.


----------



## ranfan (May 13, 2017)

Sound Eq said:


> for me i need to know which one is the most reliable company that will stand behind their customer in case the connectors cut out, and not leave me standing there with no support or step up to their responsibility, as what bugged me bout yy pro audio they did not even consider the cut out issue at all
> 
> then the second question is which cable to buy to give a real noticeable improvement in sound that increases the sound stage and maintains amazing bass and full mids with warmth that does not cost an arm and a leg, the saturn is amazing sound wise and is thick an 8 core cable and when new looks amazing, before i literally never believed in cables but the change is really huge between stock and using saturn, i have an Effect Audio Eros 4-wire and the difference between stock and eros 4 is not that huge as with saturn



Try finding your next cable in the classifieds, who knows you might get a bargain.


----------



## twister6

ranfan said:


> Try finding your next cable in the classifieds, who knows you might get a bargain.



That's actually a good suggestion. On a few occasions, in pm discussions, i heard from people getting insane deals on cables in head fi classified. While daps get dated quickly and iems market constantly updated, cables like wine only get better with time and you can use it for years. Good investment in my opinion, especially if you can get a great 2nd hand deal.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 13, 2017)

twister6 said:


> That's actually a good suggestion. On a few occasions, in pm discussions, i heard from people getting insane deals on cables in head fi classified. While daps get dated quickly and iems market constantly updated, cables like wine only get better with time and you can use it for years. Good investment in my opinion, especially if you can get a great 2nd hand deal.



so i took a pic of the left side which cuts out , do u notice anything that could be the reason for cut out


on another note 


 well then whoever has great cable for shure 846 balanced 2.5 mm trrs  for a great price then shoot me an offer


----------



## ranfan

Yes, it seems that it is not connected to the IEM..


----------



## twister6

Sound Eq said:


> so i took a pic of the left side which cuts out , do u notice anything that could be the reason for cut out
> 
> 
> on another note  well then whoever has great cable for shure 846 balanced 2.5 mm trrs  for a great price then shoot me an offer



and when you switch L/R sides of the cable, the issue follows the cable or stays with earpiece?

I would start first by getting Deoxit contact cleaner gel, see if that going to help.


----------



## Sound Eq

twister6 said:


> and when you switch L/R sides of the cable, the issue follows the cable or stays with earpiece?
> 
> I would start first by getting Deoxit contact cleaner gel, see if that going to help.



when i switch the issue follows the cable, so that then the right side cuts out


----------



## twister6

Sound Eq said:


> when i switch the issue follows the cable, so that then the right side cuts out



also try DeOxit.


----------



## fuhransahis (May 14, 2017)

I've only bought two cables... the ALO Ref 8 and the Impact Audio Copper cable. Even with this extremely narrow experience I am confounded as to how people can say that cables don't make a difference... both good in their own rights but the change in tonality is drastic. Granted, a few things are in play, such as me using the Vega which is source-sensitive, but those who say cables don't matter are just flat out wrong. It's not subjective. Even non-audiophile friends have heard a clear difference. Which again sucks for my wallet :/


----------



## ezekiel77

Sound Eq said:


> for me i need to know which one is the most reliable company that will stand behind their customer in case the connectors cut out, and not leave me standing there with no support or step up to their responsibility, as what bugged me bout yy pro audio they did not even consider the cut out issue at all



Companies with good representation in HeadFi are Effect Audio and PlusSound. I've bought from both and recommend their service and quick response. Toxic cables also has an active thread here but I've never tried their stuff.

I've had the SE846 before. Used to pair it with the Headphone Lounge Silver Litz Reference. Ted (the boss) is very responsive through email. The silver cable brings some sound improvements to the 846, mainly a faster attack and more prominent treble. It's one of the recommended cables in the 846 thread (which I stopped following last year). Good luck.


----------



## EffectAudio

ezekiel77 said:


> Companies with good representation in HeadFi are Effect Audio and PlusSound. I've bought from both and recommend their service and quick response. Toxic cables also has an active thread here but I've never tried their stuff.
> .



Thanks for the shoutout buddy \m/


----------



## Alex Soon

Hi guys, i need some advice as to what cable to purchase. I am on shure 846se and sony zx2 setup. I prefe huge soundstage. Assuming budget is not a concern, what the best cable i can get for this setup?


----------



## Sound Eq

does anyone know from where to buy quality bulk cables as I have a friend who wants to venture into cable making


----------



## tim0chan

Alex Soon said:


> Hi guys, i need some advice as to what cable to purchase. I am on shure 846se and sony zx2 setup. I prefe huge soundstage. Assuming budget is not a concern, what the best cable i can get for this setup?


Something like the flagships from effect audio, pw audio and han sound audio would be a good choice. Head over to music sanctuary's website to see them, all mostly above 1000sgd. Pw audio's 4wire 1960s is a favorite of many


----------



## DanAudio

Hi All, I have recently purchased an ALO Reference 8 cable as an upgrade to the stock Epic cable on my Westone UM Pro50 IEMs. While I'm enjoying the sonic upgrade of the ALO cable, I am noticing increased microphonics compared to the Epic cable. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Or does anyone have any useful tips on how to keep the microphonics to a minimum?

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Dan


----------



## twister6

DanAudio said:


> Hi All, I have recently purchased an ALO Reference 8 cable as an upgrade to the stock Epic cable on my Westone UM Pro50 IEMs. While I'm enjoying the sonic upgrade of the ALO cable, I am noticing increased microphonics compared to the Epic cable. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Or does anyone have any useful tips on how to keep the microphonics to a minimum?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice,
> 
> Dan



That's common with ALO cables.  Love Ref8 (have it stock on W80 and also got 2pin balanced to use with U12), but I suspect the material of tight shielding adds to microphonics as well as memory effect of the wire.  But they do sound great!  What I would recommend, get one of those cable shirt clips, it will prevent cable from rubbing against your clothe as you move around.


----------



## DanAudio

Great, I will try to get my hands on a clip, then give it a go. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## ranfan (May 17, 2017)

I recently created my first review 

Thank you Nic, for giving me this wonderful advice earlier. Without them, it would've made my writing less accurate and more difficult 

It is quite a useful advice, please allow me to share.


> Well the same principles apply as when it comes to daps or iems. You can see the effect of cables as like covering a plastic sheet with a see through plastic sheet in a different color. You mix the different colors to create a new one. But the effects of cables are more subtle.
> 
> When I first started to listen to cables, I would just listen for a whole day or maybe two to a cable. Or maybe even a week, or two weeks. Don't try to analyze very analytically, just try to enjoy your music like usual, and listen to different types of music. And don't compare directly to the other cable, just try to get a feel of how the cable sounds. Then after a while when you are accustomed to the cable, switch to the other cable and play different music again. Often, some songs that you previously liked don't sound as good, but others might sound better with the other combo. Or one cable just generally sounds better. Then try to figure out what makes it sound better, is it because the sounds is warmer, more emotional? Then its possible there is more bass. Or is it because there is more detail in the music, more clarity? Then it might be more treble. In the beginning, just look for these large differences and see it as a puzzle. Don't put pressure on yourself to hear a difference instantly. It used to take me weeks to figure out a cable, and sometimes it still takes a while. But you break it down piece by piece.
> 
> If you would like to try a more analytical perspective, it is good to start with the bass. If a bass is more controlled, the stage will sound cleaner. It can also make the sound warmer or fuller, or on the other hand, less warm or leaner. So if a sound is cleaner, it is possible there is either more treble or less bass. Especially if the note size is smaller, the sound can be cleaner. This will happen if there is less bass for instance. But this is more advanced maybe, just start with the first part, listening for a long time. Don't rush it and pressure yourself. Then try to think about large differences, and after that smaller differences.



Happy reading 
https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/plussound-x8-iem-cable.21658/reviews#review-18595


----------



## ezekiel77

ranfan said:


> I recently created my first review



Excellent review ranfan! I enjoyed reading it!


----------



## Sleepow

Hi,
Did anyone listen to the Brise Audio UPG001Ref and the PW Audio 1960 4 wires? How do they compare?
Basically I am considering both for my Sony 1Z / Dita Dream pair, so comparison to the Dita Silver Truth cable also welcomed.
Cheers


----------



## Sleepow

Hi,
I have the Dita Dream with Truth cable and would consider doing into the highway to hell: cable upgrades

The most likely content is the 1960 4 wires.
My understanding from comments would seem to imply that it would most likely just make everything better (although it might reduce the bass impact).

Or would it be better to start with a lesser cable that would actually change the signature/ tone? Maybe something brighter and more sparkly (silver ?)
Or would the 1960 be endgame and no other lesser cable would add anything to the music.

Cheers


----------



## flinkenick

Well every cable has its own properties and effect on the signature, including the 1960 4-wire. And just like iems, it depends on what kind of signature you prefer. That being said, 4-Wire is at the top of its game due its outstanding resolution and transparency. Regardless of signature, this will give it an advantage over most cables. 

Also, the 4-Wire has a lift in the upper treble. It has a significant amount of sparkle, more than some silver cables.


----------



## Whazzzup

Well if budget is of no concern and wait time is not an issue double helix cables are fantastic, I have v3 type 4 litz 8 braid on my encore and have tried hybrid copper 8 braid on my 846, preferred both to alo ref 8.  Matter of fact the only alo cable I liked is the now defunct quad ribbon they use to offer, it looked like a fruit roll up, too bad they delisted it.


----------



## Kerouac (May 28, 2017)

Sleepow said:


> Hi,
> I have the Dita Dream with Truth cable and would consider doing into the highway to hell: cable upgrades
> 
> The most likely content is the 1960 4 wires.
> ...



As the Truth cable already costs $550 on its own, I would not have expected the Dream to benefit so much more from another upgrade cable.
I thought the Truth cable was already one of the best totl cables out there, but I might have been wrong


----------



## Toolman

flinkenick said:


> Well every cable has its own properties and effect on the signature, including the 1960 4-wire. And just like iems, it depends on what kind of signature you prefer. That being said, 4-Wire is at the top of its game due its outstanding resolution and transparency. Regardless of signature, this will give it an advantage over most cables.
> 
> Also, the 4-Wire has a lift in the upper treble. It has a significant amount of sparkle, more than some silver cables.



The 4-wire certainly don't sound like a copper cable at all...to me it sits at the top of my favourite iem cable with only the Leonidas 8-wire coming close. 

*of course I have not heard them all but I've heard quite a number


----------



## fzman

Sleepow said:


> Hi,
> I have the Dita Dream with Truth cable and would consider doing into the highway to hell: cable upgrades
> 
> The most likely content is the 1960 4 wires.
> ...




It's really hard to give a good answer to your questions without knowing how you would describe the sound you are getting now, and what about that sound you wish was different (better?).  Answering that gives people a way of knowing how your sonic perceptions work, and how to help you get where you would like to go.


----------



## DeeTeeSe7en

End game portable rig for me. Pwaudio 1960s 4 wire with the FitEar MH335DW. Audio bliss! Upgraded from the 4 wire leonidas. Might need to swap ip the WM1A for the WM1Z though to be truly end game.


----------



## Kerouac

DeeTeeSe7en said:


> *End game*...*for me*...*Might need*....*to be truly end game*.


Haha, the (bleeding wallet) story of HF in a nutshell 

Very nice portable rig you've got over there...must sound fantastic


----------



## ChrisSC (May 28, 2017)

I just picked up a 1960s cable and this thing is incredible! I've been cable-gnostic for as long as I've been a head-fi'er and mostly bought cables in the past for practical reasons, however, the sound quality seems to be on another level compared to the whiplash and toxic cables that I've had before. I'll say more on that after the luster of new toy syndrome wears off, but placebo or not, it's made me a believer.

The biggest surprise for me wasn't the sound quality (I expected _something_ for the price I paid!), but its ergonomics. Its really worth highlighting that this is a dream for on-the-go use: zero microphonics, incredibly comfortable, tangle-free, and light weight. I really like that its inauspicious too; I don't want to be out in public and have people staring at bright 8-wire silver or copper cables connected to my ears (but to each their own). This cable just seems to disappear so that its me and the music.

These are just early impressions, as I've had it a grand total of 3 days. I don't see one yet, so I'm thinking of creating a dedicated pwaudio thread and I'll also try to give this a proper review once I get more acquainted.


----------



## Sleepow

ChrisSC said:


> I just picked up a 1960s cable and this thing is incredible! I've been cable-gnostic for as long as I've been a head-fi'er and mostly bought cables in the past for practical reasons, however, the sound quality seems to be on another level compared to the whiplash and toxic cables that I've had before. I'll say more on that after the luster of new toy syndrome wears off, but placebo or not, it's made me a believer.
> 
> The biggest surprise for me wasn't the sound quality (I expected _something_ for the price I paid!), but its ergonomics. Its really worth highlighting that this is a dream for on-the-go use: zero microphonics, incredibly comfortable, tangle-free, and light weight. I really like that its inauspicious too



I am assuming this is the 2 wires version?


----------



## ChrisSC

Nope- 4wire (meaning, 8wires total)


----------



## justrest

Did anyone listen to PW single crystal silver cable?


----------



## Sleepow

ChrisSC said:


> Nope- 4wire (meaning, 8wires total)


Good to hear that even the 4 wires has good ergonomics.


----------



## flinkenick

ChrisSC said:


> I just picked up a 1960s cable and this thing is incredible! I've been cable-gnostic for as long as I've been a head-fi'er and mostly bought cables in the past for practical reasons, however, the sound quality seems to be on another level compared to the whiplash and toxic cables that I've had before. I'll say more on that after the luster of new toy syndrome wears off, but placebo or not, it's made me a believer.
> 
> The biggest surprise for me wasn't the sound quality (I expected _something_ for the price I paid!), but its ergonomics. Its really worth highlighting that this is a dream for on-the-go use: zero microphonics, incredibly comfortable, tangle-free, and light weight. I really like that its inauspicious too; I don't want to be out in public and have people staring at bright 8-wire silver or copper cables connected to my ears (but to each their own). This cable just seems to disappear so that its me and the music.
> 
> These are just early impressions, as I've had it a grand total of 3 days. I don't see one yet, so I'm thinking of creating a dedicated pwaudio thread and I'll also try to give this a proper review once I get more acquainted.


Damn son, from a cable-agnostic to the 1960 4-wire?? That's quite a step to make! But the 4-wire will cure all doubt, that's one thing for sure.


----------



## ChrisSC

flinkenick said:


> Damn son, from a cable-agnostic to the 1960 4-wire?? That's quite a step to make! But the 4-wire will cure all doubt, that's one thing for sure.



I've never been a cable denier, but I found that the "moderately" priced cables that I used gave sonic changes that either were _very_ subtle or could be chalked up to placebo effect. I figure the best way to put to rest whether or not cables make a difference is to try one of the greats, something that would shake me by the collar and say, "I make a difference, damnit!" So now my ears are happy but my stomach is not- it looks like its plain rice or noodles for the next month.


----------



## flinkenick

I recently got the Truth Copper on loan from Dita, which came in especially handy to check out the balanced output of the WM1Z. But I also tested it with my trusty AK and some iems, and I have taken a liking to it.

The Copper has good low-end extension, paired with an attenuated bass response. This might be a turn off for some people, but it works wonders on its presentation. The Copper creates a spacious stage both in width and depth, resulting in a nice 3D stage. The laid-back bass results in a particularly airy stage, enhancing the spacious feel of the stage. Accordingly, the separation is very good, as well as its midrange transparency. In accordance with the bass quantity, the lower midrange is laid-back. However, the balance between the centre and upper midrange is very good, and because of this linear relation its tone is quite accurate, especially since the treble is not enhanced. It's lightly warm, but not overly so. Clear, but not bright. This works especially well for iems that suffer from the common upper midrange dip, which tends to 'dull' their tone.

So, how this translates to sound is a neutral note size, that isn't overly thick in accordance with the laid-back bass. Similarly, vocals are not overly full or forward. However, the balance in their articulation is very good; the range between depth and pronunciation. As a result of the large and airy stage, the presentation is very clean and organised, even more so because of the compact note size. It's a detailed image based on separation, without having to resort to a brighter treble. And the instrument tone is very realistic, resulting in what I feel is a beautiful sound. Not overly warm, just accurate. It's a type of signature that might not appeal to bass-heads, but more so to people that value a great stage and general presentation, both in terms of dimensions and quality. Within that stage, instruments have a realistic tone as well as good transparency.


----------



## mxroadie

While I understand I can easily achieve the above with EQ, EQ  might not always be available (e.g. running Tidal on iPhone, Aune M1S). Can anyone recommend a cable that can apply the above EQ on my Jomo Samba? I'm not looking to change the sound signature, just hoping to attenuate the mid-bass and bring up upper treble more. 

Thanks!


----------



## EagleWings

Hmmm. Labkable Pandora comes to mind based on the reviews.


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> While I understand I can easily achieve the above with EQ, EQ  might not always be available (e.g. running Tidal on iPhone, Aune M1S). Can anyone recommend a cable that can apply the above EQ on my Jomo Samba? I'm not looking to change the sound signature, just hoping to attenuate the mid-bass and bring up upper treble more.
> 
> Thanks!


Start with a good Copper cable.


----------



## mxroadie

EagleWings said:


> Hmmm. Labkable Pandora comes to mind based on the reviews.



Thanks for the recommendation @EagleWings 

A quick search brought me to Nic's review of the Pandora, with a segment on the matching of the Pandora with the Samba:

_The Pandora can be considered the cable equivalent of the Jomo Samba: both share a similar signature, an uncolored reference signature excelling in resolution and clarity. While matching similar signatures sometimes works excellently, the Samba needs a warmer cable to be at its best, to combine technical precision with a musical and more emotional sound. Combining Samba with Pandora offers superior clarity and definition, while resulting in clinical precision. Excellent for electronic music, though not as natural for instrument-based music_. 

The Pandora is beautiful albeit priced way beyond what I would like to spend on a cable. Is there anything comparable or similar to the Pandora at say, $400? Although the Pandora do seem to tick all the right boxes since i placed priority on clarity and soundstage.


----------



## flinkenick

Pandora has quite powerful bass  It combines that with a 6 Khz peak, and overall lifted treble response. It's not the most natural, but high clarity and resolution. But it wouldn't match the attenuated bass. I will try to think if something comes up but I don't know that many cables around that range, hopefully others can jump in.


----------



## mxroadie

jmills8 said:


> Start with a good Copper cable.



I was enamored with the pwaudio 1960s. Although again, priced way beyond what I would or could spend on a cable.


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> Pandora has quite powerful bass  It combines that with a 6 Khz peak, and overall lifted treble response. It's not the most natural, but high clarity and resolution. But it wouldn't match the attenuated bass. I will try to think if something comes up but I don't know that many cables around that range, hopefully others can jump in.



Thanks for chipping in, Nic. My reference is the audio-technica ath-ck10, so naturally I'm slightly adverse to too much bass, which is my only problem with the Samba.


----------



## EagleWings

mxroadie said:


> Thanks for the recommendation @EagleWings
> 
> A quick search brought me to Nic's review of the Pandora, with a segment on the matching of the Pandora with the Samba:
> 
> ...



Gotcha buddy.. Norne Therium is the next cable that comes to mind for under $400.


----------



## blazinblazin (May 30, 2017)

Maybe you can give Effect Audio Leonidas a try? 

*Was not paying attention to the budget.


----------



## mxroadie

Thanks for the recommendation, @blazinblazin .

@EagleWings Norne produces another variant of silver cables called the Silvergarde. Should I be looking at that as well? Otherwise, is there a difference in terms of SQ, between the 4-core and 8 core variant of Therium?


----------



## Deezel177

mxroadie said:


> While I understand I can easily achieve the above with EQ, EQ  might not always be available (e.g. running Tidal on iPhone, Aune M1S). Can anyone recommend a cable that can apply the above EQ on my Jomo Samba? I'm not looking to change the sound signature, just hoping to attenuate the mid-bass and bring up upper treble more.
> 
> Thanks!



I would recommend the DHC Symbiote SP Ver. 3. It has a clean, linear, and transparent signature, and its dynamics are incredibly natural and life-like. Bass is attenuated, but tightened and focused, the midrange becomes airier and clearer, and its treble is beautifully sparkly and energetic without sibilance or harsh peaks. It also has a pitch-black background that allows its aforementioned dynamics and precise imaging to shine. However, it is a more intimate presentation, with a smaller soundstage when compared to the competition.

The Norne Therium, in comparison, is smoother and thicker. It's actually funny how the Therium looks almost identical to the Symbiote SP (such that I can't distinguish them by sight if it wasn't for the DHC heat shrink), but are very distinctly different in sound. The Therium is smoother and thicker than the Symbiote SP, but it isn't because of a warm tilt in the FR or a bloated bass. The Therium's richness is the result of a mid-forward signature and less energetic treble when compared to the Symbiote SP. Its soundstage is wider than the Symbiote's, but its imaging is not as precise due to its thicker note presentation. 

Calvin of MS has informed me that the Silvergarde is currently a headphone-only offering, due to its thicker wire gauge, but Norne will offer an IEM option in the future.

Since the Samba is a pretty neutral IEM, both cable choices are equally valid in my opinion; it's merely a matter of preference. But, I recommend you try both if you can.


----------



## Whazzzup (May 30, 2017)

I'm a DHC cable guy, but realize they are expensive and wait times are many months. Granted its all I buy so nuff said. Just pay up and wait. If you are not into cables or on a budget, this may not be for you, but it's beautiful stuff, both sonic, and ergonomicly


----------



## ranfan

What about Silver-fi cables? They seem to enhance the upper frequency quite well without much attenuating the low frequency.


----------



## Deezel177

Whazzzup said:


> I'm a DHC cable guy, but realize they are expensive and wait times are many months. Granted its all I buy so nuff said. Just pay up and wait. If you are not into cables or on a budget, this may not be for you, but it's beautiful stuff, both sonic, and ergonomicly



Right! I forgot to mention this in the cons of DHC Symbiote SP. DHC cables tend to take about three months to build, and the SP isn't as cheap as other silver cables, but considering the valley of TOTL cables we have in the market today, it's price isn't bad IMO. Thanks for reminding me!


----------



## EagleWings

mxroadie said:


> @EagleWings Norne produces another variant of silver cables called the Silvergarde. Should I be looking at that as well? Otherwise, is there a difference in terms of SQ, between the 4-core and 8 core variant of Therium?



Sorry buddy. The only cable I have tried from Norne is their 4-wire Therium.


----------



## mxroadie (May 31, 2017)

Deezel177 said:


> I would recommend the DHC Symbiote SP Ver. 3. It has a clean, linear, and transparent signature, and its dynamics are incredibly natural and life-like. Bass is attenuated, but tightened and focused, the midrange becomes airier and clearer, and its treble is beautifully sparkly and energetic without sibilance or harsh peaks. It also has a pitch-black background that allows its aforementioned dynamics and precise imaging to shine. However, it is a more intimate presentation, with a smaller soundstage when compared to the competition.
> 
> The Norne Therium, in comparison, is smoother and thicker. It's actually funny how the Therium looks almost identical to the Symbiote SP (such that I can't distinguish them by sight if it wasn't for the DHC heat shrink), but are very distinctly different in sound. The Therium is smoother and thicker than the Symbiote SP, but it isn't because of a warm tilt in the FR or a bloated bass. The Therium's richness is the result of a mid-forward signature and less energetic treble when compared to the Symbiote SP. Its soundstage is wider than the Symbiote's, but its imaging is not as precise due to its thicker note presentation.
> 
> ...



Hi @Deezel177

Thanks for the recommendation. When you say the bass is attenuated, did you mean to say accentuated? I managed to try my Samba with a 8 core DHC v3 today and while it does create a airy and sparklier treble presentation, the bass (sub and mid bass) was actually boosted as well. It does sound very good though. Tonality was natural sounding and I did hear a slight improvement in separation. Would a 4 core DHC be better? Bass reduction wise


----------



## Deezel177

mxroadie said:


> Hi @Deezel177
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation. When you say the bass is attenuated, did you mean to say accentuated? I managed to try my Samba with a 8 core DHC v3 today and while it does create a airy and sparklier treble presentation, the bass (sub and mid bass) was actually boosted as well. It does sound very good though. Tonality was natural sounding and I did hear a slight improvement in separation. Would a 4 core DHC be better? Bass reduction wise



No, I did mean attenuated; I felt the 4-core Symbiote SP made IEMs like my Aether and my Athena, which have bold, bodied, and blooming bass (especially mid-bass) presentations, settle down significantly to complement the airy and sparkly treble. Maybe the 8-core configuration is responsible for this change. Nevertheless, thank you for bringing this to light, I'll give the 8-wire a try if I get the chance; a bassy Symbiote SP might be brilliant for a jack-of-all-trades kind of cable. 

Cheers!


----------



## mxroadie

Deezel177 said:


> No, I did mean attenuated; I felt the 4-core Symbiote SP made IEMs like my Aether and my Athena, which have bold, bodied, and blooming bass (especially mid-bass) presentations, settle down significantly to complement the airy and sparkly treble. Maybe the 8-core configuration is responsible for this change. Nevertheless, thank you for bringing this to light, I'll give the 8-wire a try if I get the chance; a bassy Symbiote SP might be brilliant for a jack-of-all-trades kind of cable.
> 
> Cheers!



That's interesting. That does sound like the cable I need! I will try to catch a 4-core for audition. Otherwise, a blind purchase might be in order. Yes, do give the 8-core a try. I have very low tolerance for bass so I'm very sure it was boosted. 

Thanks again!


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> Hi @Deezel177
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation. When you say the bass is attenuated, did you mean to say accentuated? I managed to try my Samba with a 8 core DHC v3 today and while it does create a airy and sparklier treble presentation, the bass (sub and mid bass) was actually boosted as well. It does sound very good though. Tonality was natural sounding and I did hear a slight improvement in separation. Would a 4 core DHC be better? Bass reduction wise


 Dont fear the Bass.


----------



## mxroadie

jmills8 said:


> Dont fear the Bass.



It's hard to find high fidelity equipment that suits the music I listen to, which are mostly heavy metal. Most audiophil-ish earphones tend to be tuned with thick lower mids and smooth highs, with the exceptions such as the Hidition NT-6 and Fitear private 333. The Earsonics s-em9 was almost perfect except for the very prominent (but very tight) bass.


----------



## flinkenick

mxroadie said:


> It's hard to find high fidelity equipment that suits the music I listen to, which are mostly heavy metal. Most audiophil-ish earphones tend to be tuned with thick lower mids and smooth highs, with the exceptions such as the Hidition NT-6 and Fitear private 333. The Earsonics s-em9 was almost perfect except for the very prominent (but very tight) bass.


Ah I see, you're really looking to accentuate the bass as a priority. Well to be honest the Truth Copper I described above does that very well, and I really appreciate the effect it has on the stage. It just doesn't bring out the mid/upper treble (which I think is good for its tone). Also, the cable is a bit springy and different in its build than regular cables. I would have liked to test the combo for you, but my Samba is on vacation in the US at the moment.


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> It's hard to find high fidelity equipment that suits the music I listen to, which are mostly heavy metal. Most audiophil-ish earphones tend to be tuned with thick lower mids and smooth highs, with the exceptions such as the Hidition NT-6 and Fitear private 333. The Earsonics s-em9 was almost perfect except for the very prominent (but very tight) bass.





mxroadie said:


> It's hard to find high fidelity equipment that suits the music I listen to, which are mostly heavy metal. Most audiophil-ish earphones tend to be tuned with thick lower mids and smooth highs, with the exceptions such as the Hidition NT-6 and Fitear private 333. The Earsonics s-em9 was almost perfect except for the very prominent (but very tight) bass.


 like this


----------



## mxroadie

jmills8 said:


> like this




Give these a try if you like, @jmills8:


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> Ah I see, you're really looking to accentuate the bass as a priority. Well to be honest the Truth Copper I described above does that very well, and I really appreciate the effect it has on the stage. It just doesn't bring out the mid/upper treble (which I think is good for its tone). Also, the cable is a bit springy and different in its build than regular cables. I would have liked to test the combo for you, but my Samba is on vacation in the US at the moment.



I guess bringing down the bass and lower mids would allow upper treble to breathe easier, so yes, attenuating the bass would be top priority. I actually do have access to the Truth cable, I will give it a try. My preference is moving towards a natural tonality, unfortunately, those usually comes with thick and cushiony lows.


----------



## jmills8

mxroadie said:


> Give these a try if you like, @jmills8:



Yep all good, seen both live.


----------



## Sound Eq (May 31, 2017)

i have been watching the sale forum for a great cable offer for my shure 846 with 2.5 mm balanced but so far no great offers as I used to see in the past,
I am looking for a basshead cable , something that adds as much as possible bass, great full mids and wide sound stage, which I guess u call it a summer cable. Its always the opposite once u look for something u do not find it and once u do not look for something u see lots of offers


----------



## normie610

mxroadie said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, @blazinblazin .
> 
> @EagleWings Norne produces another variant of silver cables called the Silvergarde. Should I be looking at that as well? Otherwise, is there a difference in terms of SQ, between the 4-core and 8 core variant of Therium?



I've used both, the Silvergarde is a clear improvement over Therium. The sound is a lot more natural, more airy, has visceral bass impact, extended and very relalistic treble. I mostly listen to hi-res binaural jazz, with some alternative, EDM and regular top 40 songs in the mix. I don't know whether it will suit your preference of songs, but it's definitely an improvement over Therium.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

mxroadie said:


> Give these a try if you like, @jmills8:




Great taste in music, only seen Architects at their album launch gig in brighton last year, signed vinyl:


----------



## flinkenick

mxroadie said:


> I guess bringing down the bass and lower mids would allow upper treble to breathe easier, so yes, attenuating the bass would be top priority. I actually do have access to the Truth cable, I will give it a try. My preference is moving towards a natural tonality, unfortunately, those usually comes with thick and cushiony lows.


Ah great, try the Copper version for a more natural sound. The SPC is more 'reference'.


----------



## flinkenick

Hello everybody, I'm going to do a mini-series of 3 affordable copper cables; the Han Audio Zen, PW Audio no 5, and now up first, the Effect Audio Ares II.

http://theheadphonelist.com/the-effect-audio-ares-ii/


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

@flinkenick have you tried the Atlas Zeno cable?


----------



## ranfan (Jun 1, 2017)

First time I've heard there is such a 'cable aficionado'  I initially imagined some guy with a collection of cables stored and displayed in his basement- ranging from common to exotic materials -which he so regularly visit and view while sipping on a glass of fancy wine; appreciating the beauty of its texture, colour, braiding, and bare-nakedness of the wires. Nice write Nic, writing cables as I understand requires a lot of time. More so with entry level ones, which have less perceptible differences to note. A great effort on your behalf, to write these mini-series. (_edit: JK part)_


----------



## flinkenick

ranfan said:


> First time I've heard there is such a 'cable aficionado'  I initially imagined some guy with a collection of cables stored and displayed in his basement - ranging from common to exotic materials - which he so regularly visit and view while sipping on a glass of fancy wine. Nice write Nic, writing cables as I understand requires a lot of time. More so with entry level ones, which have less noticeable differences to note. What a great effort on your behalf, to write these mini-series. Thank you for showing us the truth, allowing us to realize and be converted.


Thanks for the kind words buddy. Ares II was a little bit easier to write, since I've had it for quite a while since it's the stock cable of Samba which I reviewed last year.

But I wouldn't say it's my mission to convert people hehe, I'm just doing my thing and hope the non-believers leave me alone as much as possible.



Oscar-HiFi said:


> @flinkenick have you tried the Atlas Zeno cable?


Hey man, sorry never heard of Atlas. It also seems to be a HP cable, and I'm a 100% iem guy.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

flinkenick said:


> Thanks for the kind words buddy. Ares II was a little bit easier to write, since I've had it for quite a while since it's the stock cable of Samba which I reviewed last year.
> 
> But I wouldn't say it's my mission to convert people hehe, I'm just doing my thing and hope the non-believers leave me alone as much as possible.
> 
> ...



http://www.atlascables.com/hp-zeno-iem.html

I have just got one in, retails at £305 roughly...

I'll update with impressions at some point (from my personal account).


----------



## flinkenick

Oscar-HiFi said:


> http://www.atlascables.com/hp-zeno-iem.html
> 
> I have just got one in, retails at £305 roughly...
> 
> I'll update with impressions at some point (from my personal account).


Looks interesting, please do!


----------



## ezekiel77

flinkenick said:


> Hello everybody, I'm going to do a mini-series of 3 affordable copper cables; the Han Audio Zen, PW Audio no 5, and now up first, the Effect Audio Ares II.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-effect-audio-ares-ii/



At the CustomArt thread, this is one of the top choices for pairing with the Harmony 8.2. A dark IEM paired with a copper cable confused me at first, but after reading your review it makes sense. More transparency and air is exactly what would improve the 8.2. Thanks Nic.


----------



## noplsestar

flinkenick said:


> Hello everybody, I'm going to do a mini-series of 3 affordable copper cables; the Han Audio Zen, PW Audio no 5, and now up first, the Effect Audio Ares II.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-effect-audio-ares-ii/



How do you find the time for all those reviews besides your shootout? Maybe you can lend me some of your time? 
Or even a better idea: You could write a book called "The Audiophile's Guide To The Galaxy" before finishing your PhD! Then all the new headfi memebers would have to read it before they would be able to subscribe to an IEM thread hehe


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

flinkenick said:


> Looks interesting, please do!



Will do, also have a Nobunaga SPC cable, am building a Toxic Cables Viper cable, and have an Effect Ares II on it's way.

My main cable used to be a Forza hybrid cable, which I still have.


----------



## flinkenick

ezekiel77 said:


> At the CustomArt thread, this is one of the top choices for pairing with the Harmony 8.2. A dark IEM paired with a copper cable confused me at first, but after reading your review it makes sense. More transparency and air is exactly what would improve the 8.2. Thanks Nic.


To be honest I've never tested the combo, but it does makes a lot of sense! You're welcome buddy.



noplsestar said:


> How do you find the time for all those reviews besides your shootout? Maybe you can lend me some of your time?
> Or even a better idea: You could write a book called "The Audiophile's Guide To The Galaxy" before finishing your PhD! Then all the new headfi memebers would have to read it before they would be able to subscribe to an IEM thread hehe


Well to be honest I'm not a super productive person. I procrastinate a lot.. sometimes by writing iem reviews hehe. I wrote Ares II and Han Audio Zen last month when I was on vacation.


----------



## twister6

In a spirit of cable reviews, here one I posted last night of iBasso CB12 and CB13 8-core hybrid cables:

https://twister6.com/2017/05/31/ibasso-cb12-and-cb13-premium-cables/


----------



## Toolman

flinkenick said:


> Hello everybody, I'm going to do a mini-series of 3 affordable copper cables; the Han Audio Zen, PW Audio no 5, and now up first, the Effect Audio Ares II.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-effect-audio-ares-ii/



Looking forward to it. I have all three...but my Zen is a 8-wire config. For some reason (likely due to mathching) I'm liking my Ares II a bit more but they are all very nice, affordable wires. Time to give all three a back-to-back comparison again


----------



## Wyville

ezekiel77 said:


> At the CustomArt thread, this is one of the top choices for pairing with the Harmony 8.2. A dark IEM paired with a copper cable confused me at first, but after reading your review it makes sense. More transparency and air is exactly what would improve the 8.2. Thanks Nic.


I had the same thoughts and the review @flinkenick wrote really helped to understand why the Ares II combines well with the 8.2, but also the Ei.3. I am certainly tempted to give the Ares II a go at some point, although I also wonder how the Eros Hybrid and even the Thor Silver might combine. My current cable gives the Ei.3 a slightly bigger stage and while I understand it smooths treble even more, I find the result quite nice because the added stage helps create the perception of a bit more sparkle.


----------



## mxroadie

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Great taste in music, only seen Architects at their album launch gig in brighton last year, signed vinyl:



Wow, that's sick! AOGHAU is their best work yet. RIP Tom.

The problem with AOGHAU, at least for me, is the thick "atmosphere" that runs in every track. That's where I have a tendency to EQ the bass and lower mids down in order to hear the layering better. I have learnt to get over it though, since that's probably how Architects want them to sound like.


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> Hello everybody, I'm going to do a mini-series of 3 affordable copper cables; the Han Audio Zen, PW Audio no 5, and now up first, the Effect Audio Ares II.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-effect-audio-ares-ii/



Why does it sounds like Ares II might just be what I'm looking for.


----------



## PinkyPowers

plusSound thought I'd like to review their just-released, new and updated Gold-Plated Copper Litz. And since I gave those clever craftsmen such a hard time with their heavy X6, they decided I'd be happy with the 2-conductor X-Series.

I'll have this review up before the end of the month.

I do quite like the ergonomics.


----------



## flinkenick

mxroadie said:


> Why does it sounds like Ares II might just be what I'm looking for.


Ares II is Samba's stock cable buddy, you should already have it


----------



## Oscar-HiFi (Jun 2, 2017)

Heres a little selection of cables, awaiting the Ares II from Effect audio too (Forza Hybrid (brown), Toxic Viper (grey, home built), Nobunaga Medusa (silver), Atlas Zenos IEM(black))


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> Ares II is Samba's stock cable buddy, you should already have it



I bought my Samba off someone, without the cable. That said, I will check out the Ares II. Might as well, since I can now order one with 4.4mm.


----------



## flinkenick

mxroadie said:


> I bought my Samba off someone, without the cable. That said, I will check out the Ares II. Might as well, since I can now order one with 4.4mm.


Ah I see. Ares II is also used as internal wiring, and it really shows. Samba and Ares share a roughly similar signature, but it works excellent together for the intended tuning; which is reference, not natural though.


----------



## Vitor Valeri

flinkenick said:


> Hello everybody, I'm going to do a mini-series of 3 affordable copper cables; the Han Audio Zen, PW Audio no 5, and now up first, the Effect Audio Ares II.
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-effect-audio-ares-ii/



Thank you for review! I love this cable! I use it with my JH5.


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> Ah I see. Ares II is also used as internal wiring, and it really shows. Samba and Ares share a roughly similar signature, but it works excellent together for the intended tuning; which is reference, not natural though.



Nic, can I get your input on this? Since you both cables. Between the iBasso cb13 and Ares II, which would serve my criteria of attenuating bass and bringing up the highs best? The option of reterminating the iBasso to 2 pin and 4.4mm plug is available to me. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## flinkenick

mxroadie said:


> Nic, can I get your input on this? Since you both cables. Between the iBasso cb13 and Ares II, which would serve my criteria of attenuating bass and bringing up the highs best? The option of reterminating the iBasso to 2 pin and 4.4mm plug is available to me.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I'm sorry man, haven't heard the iBasso cables..


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> I'm sorry man, haven't heard the iBasso cables..



Oops, this is embarrassing. I got you mixed up with Alex (twister6)


----------



## flinkenick

mxroadie said:


> Oops, this is embarrassing. I got you mixed up with Alex (twister6)


How is that even possible, Alex and I look nothing alike 

Alex will jump in, but I don't think he's heard the Ares II. But I will say, stereotypically copper/silver hybrids seem to fit the bill of what you are looking for; neutral bass and a spacious stage (except for the lifted treble).


----------



## twister6

flinkenick said:


> How is that even possible, Alex and I look nothing alike
> 
> Alex will jump in, but I don't think he's heard the Ares II. But I will say, stereotypically copper/silver hybrids seem to fit the bill of what you are looking for; neutral bass and a spacious stage (except for the lifted treble).



Oh, common Nic, i thought you are my brother from from another mother?


----------



## twister6

mxroadie said:


> Nic, can I get your input on this? Since you both cables. Between the iBasso cb13 and Ares II, which would serve my criteria of attenuating bass and bringing up the highs best? The option of reterminating the iBasso to 2 pin and 4.4mm plug is available to me.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Which iem do you have in mind? Based on it03 and a few Westones i tested, yes, cb13 should do the job you are looking for, but i'm also a believer that not every cable will have the exact same synergy results with different iems. As i mentioned in my cb12/cb13 review, their mmcx connector is not exactly universal until you mod it, so i didn't get as many "data points" testing it. 

But based on what I heard so far, yes, the sound becomes more expanded, signature more balanced at expense of some bass attenuation, and as a result upper mids presentation came more forward. I do have Ares II, No.5, and Zen, but all with 2pin connectors, and typically with pure copper i hear more improvement in low end, not the attenuation. Cb13 is a hybrid, adding 4 pure silver conductors to 4 pure copper.


----------



## flinkenick

twister6 said:


> Oh, common Nic, i thought you are my brother from from another mother?




Forgot you also had Ares II for the three-way comparison.


----------



## DanDorn

fzman said:


> Anybody have any experience with LQi cables from the eBay seller?


You've probably already gotten a reply to this. I purchased the LQi Esprit Series UP-OCC Silver Plated Copper headphone cable for my Focal Elears, as well as a balanced 2.5mm interconnect mini-cable, directly from the LQi website. They're simply superb.
*Esprit Series UP-OCC Silver Plated Copper Headphone Cable*
cables for


----------



## Dingding123

Just got the Han Sound Redcore. Oh doesn't it look pretty!
 

Brief first impression
Despite the introduction on the Music Sanctuary's website describing the colour of cable as scarlet, it is actually beetroot coloured to be precise. 
Terminated with either Furutech FT-735R or FT-7254 plugs, the Redcore shares a similar look to the sensational 1960 4 wire cable from PW audio. In fact, just as each wire in the 1960s contains 2 conductors, there is a silver and a copper wire in each nylon sleeve of the Redcore.

Ergonomics:
The Redcore is slightly stiffer than the 1960s, and the nylon sleeving feels slightly rough. However, the Redcore is still very comfortable to wear. Microphonics is present, but very occasional. (BTW the least microphonic upgrade cable I've tried recently is the PW No.5 and the Effect Audio line-up.) Also, the cable feels quite light, and doesn't put a load on my ears.

Sound:
Right off the bat, the Redcore sounds "just right". I often use Daft Punk's Instant Crush as my test track for cables, as it is interestingly mastered, and any sonic signature brought about by the cable is very obvious. On Redcore with Zeus R, the treble is airy - not energetic kind of sparkly + forwardly-placed, but instead, it is fast, bright and articulate. Somehow, the treble sounds like that of Whiplash TWag V3. 
The bass is energetic and tight, with a slight hint of warmth, similar to the 4-wired 1960s. Mids are detailed and slightly forward. The vocals in Instant Crush sounds neither too laidback, nor too forward or too full - just as how it is mastered.
The Redcore is a transparent cable. The reverb in Daft Punk's Within sounds steady and extended. It is definitely not as transparent as PWaudio's 1960, however. On the bright side, it tames the aggressive highs in some tracks. An example is Ed Sheeran's Eraser. On the 1960s, the transparent nature of the cable makes Ed Sheeran's vocal and guitar sound sharp and almost harsh. On the other hand, with Redcore, the same track still sounds upbeat and energetic, but not aggressive at all. So in some sense, the Redcore is a more "forgiving" and less transparent 1960s.
Redcore's soundstage is excellent too. It has a wide 3D like soundstage, albeit not as deep as it is wide. I can't find a apt way to describe it, but in short, I can pin-point where each instrument is placed. (Such as in Muse's MK Ultra.) 

I'm gonna burn in the cable now. Can't wait to see what it turns out to be after the burn-in.


----------



## mxroadie

flinkenick said:


> How is that even possible, Alex and I look nothing alike
> 
> Alex will jump in, but I don't think he's heard the Ares II. But I will say, stereotypically copper/silver hybrids seem to fit the bill of what you are looking for; neutral bass and a spacious stage (except for the lifted treble).





twister6 said:


> Which iem do you have in mind? Based on it03 and a few Westones i tested, yes, cb13 should do the job you are looking for, but i'm also a believer that not every cable will have the exact same synergy results with different iems. As i mentioned in my cb12/cb13 review, their mmcx connector is not exactly universal until you mod it, so i didn't get as many "data points" testing it.
> 
> But based on what I heard so far, yes, the sound becomes more expanded, signature more balanced at expense of some bass attenuation, and as a result upper mids presentation came more forward. I do have Ares II, No.5, and Zen, but all with 2pin connectors, and typically with pure copper i hear more improvement in low end, not the attenuation. Cb13 is a hybrid, adding 4 pure silver conductors to 4 pure copper.



Well, I always turn to reviews from either of you before making any momentous financial decisions. Anyway, I really really appreciate the inputs here.

Yes, I have heard that hybrids is the way to go if one is looking for soundstage, not aware they are also known for neutral bass. 

@twister6, I'm looking for a cable for my Jomo Samba. Which is nearly perfect except for the bass that I find too strong and too much. 

Cb13 sounds perfect. I will have it modded for 2 pin usage. I will definitely share my findings here. 
Thanks both!


----------



## fzman

DanDorn said:


> You've probably already gotten a reply to this. I purchased the LQi Esprit Series UP-OCC Silver Plated Copper headphone cable for my Focal Elears, as well as a balanced 2.5mm interconnect mini-cable, directly from the LQi website. They're simply superb.
> *Esprit Series UP-OCC Silver Plated Copper Headphone Cable*
> cables for



Thanks,  you are actually the first!  What have you compared them to?


----------



## twister6

I posted this in another thread, and figured might be a good idea to post in Nic's thread as well since I get asked a lot about 2.5mm BAL to 3.5mm SE adapters.  Lately been using the one from Penon Audio, under $25, a really good build, and high quality hybrid multi-core (6 pure copper and 6 spc conductors) wire design: http://penonaudio.com/HI-FI-Balanced-Adapter


----------



## ezekiel77

Dingding123 said:


> Just got the Han Sound Redcore. Oh doesn't it look pretty!



Thanks for the first impressions! This was in my shortlist bcos of its striking looks and the sheathing reminds me of the Q Audio French Silk (for headphones) which felt luxurious. Now I'll have to take a second look at it. Baby PW 1960s haha.


----------



## Dingding123 (Jun 4, 2017)

ezekiel77 said:


> Thanks for the first impressions! This was in my shortlist bcos of its striking looks and the sheathing reminds me of the Q Audio French Silk (for headphones) which felt luxurious. Now I'll have to take a second look at it. Baby PW 1960s haha.


You're most welcome! 

"second" impressions (if there's such a thing heh)
I have issues with the Y-split. While it looks pretty, the holes on the slider are just SO much bigger than the left and right cables. It slides down so easily that it is annoying. Not sure if it is an intentional design, but I'm disappointed that they overlooked this detail.

Now let's talk about sound!
After almost a full day of burn-in, the layering has improved, and the cable sounds fuller and more organic on the low end without sacrificing the clarity up top. Bertie Higgins' Casablanca and Sarah Connor's Just One Last Dance sound soulful and transparent.
I hate to use superlatives terms when it comes to audio stuff, but I think I've just found the best pairing for Zeus.


----------



## Sound Eq (Jun 4, 2017)

can i ask a question please about a cable issue

so I have a cable from yy pro audio and i use it with my shure 846, and it cuts out sometimes when i turn my head from the left side, so when I switched the cable's left to right and right to be left there is no cut out anymore on either the left or right side. This is so weird I thought the cut will be in the right side after switching but there is no cut on either side.

does this affect music listening technically by using the yy pro cable this way ??

when i use the stock cable there is no cut at all neither from left or right side.


----------



## PinkyPowers

twister6 said:


> I posted this in another thread, and figured might be a good idea to post in Nic's thread as well since I get asked a lot about 2.5mm BAL to 3.5mm SE adapters.  Lately been using the one from Penon Audio, under $25, a really good build, and high quality hybrid multi-core (6 pure copper and 6 spc conductors) wire design: http://penonaudio.com/HI-FI-Balanced-Adapter



Even nicer than the one I made.


----------



## fuhransahis

Anyone try this Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm SE adapter?


----------



## DanDorn

fzman said:


> Thanks,  you are actually the first!  What have you compared them to?


The only comparisons I can draw in this case are to Moon Audio Silver Dragons and Black Dragons, which (no offense to Dan Clark, who's great) are overpriced, and the Black Dragons I find darken the sound a bit too much, especially for darkish sounding headphones like the Elear. The Elear stock cables aren't bad, they're just thick, heavy and long. The LQi cables I find heighten the dynamic qualities of the Elear. They're very high quality, well made.


----------



## DanDorn (Jun 5, 2017)

fzman said:


> Thanks,  you are actually the first!  What have you compared them to?


 Correction: I mean Drew Baird (of Moon Audio), not Dan Clark (of MrSpeakers).


----------



## flinkenick

Hey guys, back again already for part 2: the Han Audio Zen.

http://theheadphonelist.com/the-han-audio-zen/


----------



## parabellum777

fuhransahis said:


> Anyone try this Eidolic 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm SE adapter?



I bought one of them, and it is an amazing adaptor. Good quality and working perfectly.


----------



## TAsme

Hello guys!

Has anyone of you got a recommandation for a aftermarket cable with Memory wire? I always have the problem that the cables feel uncomfortable without Memory wire

Thanks in advance


----------



## fuhransahis

TAsme said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> Has anyone of you got a recommandation for a aftermarket cable with Memory wire? I always have the problem that the cables feel uncomfortable without Memory wire
> 
> Thanks in advance


ALO Reference 8


----------



## PinkyPowers

Yep. I recommend that too.


----------



## gameon

Ref8 here also, Just received mine yesterday..very nice cable, sounds awesome.Memory wire works very nice.


----------



## NickL33

Any good copper cable recomanded for K10?


----------



## twister6

NickL33 said:


> Any good copper cable recomanded for K10?



Nic is doing a write up of pure copper cables (in $150 bracket).  You have a choice of PWA No5, Effect Audio Ares II, and Han Sound Audio Zen.  All great cables.


----------



## twister6

This was posted in Discovery thread, but I figured you guys might enjoy it.  Zero Audio just released a DIY kit to make your own cables 

http://www.zeroaudio.jp/product_ZAD.html


----------



## fuhransahis

twister6 said:


> This was posted in Discovery thread, but I figured you guys might enjoy it.  Zero Audio just released a DIY kit to make your own cables
> 
> http://www.zeroaudio.jp/product_ZAD.html



I've never made a cable but been curious... would that work with any wire if using their smart plugs and connectors?? If so that looks awesome! Any possible loss in sound quality in this vs traditional soldering, aside from only being able to use those connectors and plugs?


----------



## NickL33

twister6 said:


> Nic is doing a write up of pure copper cables (in $150 bracket).  You have a choice of PWA No5, Effect Audio Ares II, and Han Sound Audio Zen.  All great cables.



How does the PWA No.5 sound comparing to Ares and Zen?

Cant find any review....


----------



## flinkenick

NickL33 said:


> How does the PWA No.5 sound comparing to Ares and Zen?
> 
> Cant find any review....


I sent my PW no 5 back to be reterminated to 4.4, but then decided not to so I will receive it on Monday again. But Calvin also loaned me a no 5 8-braid terminated to 4.4 so I can still try it balanced, looking forward to that. So it will take a small while for the last review. But no 5 sounds really good, it has a clean sound, but also a very realistic tone and nice vocal balance. Also, @ezekiel77 posted a writeup somewhere a while ago.


----------



## noplsestar

flinkenick said:


> I sent my PW no 5 back to be reterminated to 4.4, but then decided not to so I will receive it on Monday again. But Calvin also loaned me a no 5 8-braid terminated to 4.4 so I can still try it balanced, looking forward to that. So it will take a small while for the last review. But no 5 sounds really good, it has a clean sound, but also a very realistic tone and nice vocal balance. Also, @ezekiel77 posted a writeup somewhere a while ago.



So you got the WM1Z? How is it compared to your other DAP's? Heavy?


----------



## ranfan

twister6 said:


> This was posted in Discovery thread, but I figured you guys might enjoy it.  Zero Audio just released a DIY kit to make your own cables
> 
> http://www.zeroaudio.jp/product_ZAD.html



Thanks for sharing  It's like origami with cables, interesting.


----------



## flinkenick

noplsestar said:


> So you got the WM1Z? How is it compared to your other DAP's? Heavy?


Yeah I picked one up second hand, cost all my savings from the last half year hehe. I will write up a comparison with my AK sometime soon. 

But yes heavy!


----------



## Dean Lim

What would be the best cable for prophile 8?


----------



## NickL33

flinkenick said:


> I sent my PW no 5 back to be reterminated to 4.4, but then decided not to so I will receive it on Monday again. But Calvin also loaned me a no 5 8-braid terminated to 4.4 so I can still try it balanced, looking forward to that. So it will take a small while for the last review. But no 5 sounds really good, it has a clean sound, but also a very realistic tone and nice vocal balance. Also, @ezekiel77 posted a writeup somewhere a while ago.


I see... I am now left down to Zen or No5 which is better? From built quality to sound


----------



## flinkenick

NickL33 said:


> I see... I am now left down to Zen or No5 which is better? From built quality to sound


Zen is warmer and smoother, you could say it has a very slight L-shape although its bass isn't necessarily much enhanced, it just has a bit more upper bass than Ares II and no 5. No 5 is cleaner with a nice timbre. I know people that prefer Zen, I think I personally prefer no 5. But need to listen more when I get it.


----------



## NickL33

flinkenick said:


> Zen is warmer and smoother, you could say it has a very slight L-shape although its bass isn't necessarily much enhanced, it just has a bit more upper bass than Ares II and no 5. No 5 is cleaner with a nice timbre. I know people that prefer Zen, I think I personally prefer no 5. But need to listen more when I get it.



No.5 Mids and Treble comparing to Zen?


----------



## noplsestar (Jun 8, 2017)

Dean Lim said:


> What would be the best cable for prophile 8?



That's what Marco Rämisch is questioning himself too while working on the CIEM version of the PP8. I guess a cable that doesn't affect the frequency curve itself (in order to maintain the reference sound), but only expands the soundstage would be good? But I don't know which one that would be. Maybe you ask the company InEar if they have found a proper cable upgrade yet for their future CIEM release.


----------



## flinkenick

NickL33 said:


> No.5 Mids and Treble comparing to Zen?


I would need to listen.


----------



## NickL33

flinkenick said:


> I would need to listen.



Can't wait for the full review!


----------



## SeeSax

I've got a potentially dumb question for the cable experts here, if anyone wants to entertain it. It seems that in higher-end silver cables, we now have a choice these days of smaller gauge 8-braid designs or larger gauge 4-braid designs. All things being equal (if that's even possible), is there a consensus on which is better? I can't really do the math, but it would sound like 4-braid design of 22awg would be about the same material as 26 or 28awg 8-braid designs. Just curios here 

-Collin-


----------



## PinkyPowers

SeeSax said:


> I've got a potentially dumb question for the cable experts here, if anyone wants to entertain it. It seems that in higher-end silver cables, we now have a choice these days of smaller gauge 8-braid designs or larger gauge 4-braid designs. All things being equal (if that's even possible), is there a consensus on which is better? I can't really do the math, but it would sound like 4-braid design of 22awg would be about the same material as 26 or 28awg 8-braid designs. Just curios here
> 
> -Collin-



I know Trevor of Norne Audio personally feels there is no way to get the same bass response from anything save a large gauge conductor.


----------



## EffectAudio

PinkyPowers said:


> I know Trevor of Norne Audio personally feels there is no way to get the same bass response from anything save a large gauge conductor.



Agreed


----------



## tieuly1

Does anyone have a try for lionheart from EffectAdio? Since my andromeda lack sub-bass that sometimes trigger my feeling. I read the review of cable but terminate 4.4mm will not have PSquared connectors which is confirmed a lot improvement in depth perception (


----------



## Kerouac

tieuly1 said:


> Does anyone have a try for lionheart from EffectAdio? Since my andromeda lack sub-bass that sometimes trigger my feeling. I read the review of cable but terminate 4.4mm will not have PSquared connectors which is confirmed a lot improvement in depth perception (


Not sure if any cable can fix that for you. I like the Andromeda a lot, but when I want some serious rumbling subbass I grab for my Solar or cheaper (but also very good) IT03 instead.


----------



## blazinblazin

tieuly1 said:


> Does anyone have a try for lionheart from EffectAdio? Since my andromeda lack sub-bass that sometimes trigger my feeling. I read the review of cable but terminate 4.4mm will not have PSquared connectors which is confirmed a lot improvement in depth perception (



I am using Leonidas. It does give some rumble but not that much. It's a BA iem afterall.


----------



## ranfan (Jun 10, 2017)

The PW5 is going to be exciting  Reminds me of my old Oriolus 2.


----------



## tieuly1

blazinblazin said:


> I am using Leonidas. It does give some rumble but not that much. It's a BA iem afterall.


Yep I think so, just curious about the balanced 4.4 cm can drive and on the other hand, the lionheart might be ok with starting upgrade...


----------



## tieuly1

Kerouac said:


> Not sure if any cable can fix that for you. I like the Andromeda a lot, but when I want some serious rumbling subbass I grab for my Solar or cheaper (but also very good) IT03 instead.


Yep I  Think about it too but currently curiosity about Sony balanced out might drive me to the cable upgrade.


----------



## Kerouac

tieuly1 said:


> Yep I  Think about it too but currently curiosity about Sony balanced out might drive me to the cable upgrade.


From what I've read/understood, both WM1A and WM1Z should sound better from balanced out (once it's burned in) => you should probably notice an improvement in sq there already.
One other advantage going balanced with these 2 daps is that Native DSD can be played without any downsampling going on in the background 

Good luck with picking the right cable...


----------



## NickL33

Oh have anyone try Ref8 with K10u?


----------



## Wyville

Kerouac said:


> From what I've read/understood, both WM1A and WM1Z should sound better from balanced out (once it's burned in) => you should probably notice an improvement in sq there already.


I keep wondering if the balanced out on my AK70 will be worth using or not, there are so many contrasting reports on its performance. 

Sometimes I wish I had stuck with Sony. The WM1A/Z seems to have done the balanced out really well and the battery life is so nice to have. My AK70 can do up to 10 hours and I am constantly charging, whereas my little bitty A15 can keep going for 2 or 3 hours even when it is indicating the battery is empty. The WM1A/Z also has something like 30+ hours and is really convenient while on 12 hour journeys like I did last week.


----------



## PinkyPowers

NickL33 said:


> Oh have anyone try Ref8 with K10u?



I tried it with Kaiser Encore, and loved the sound.

Currently, my Ref8 stays on the 64Audio U12, because it makes those IEMs my absolute favorite thing to listen to.


----------



## ironpeg (Jun 13, 2017)

Linum Super Bax

Connection: 2pin, 3.5mm TRS

Source: AK380Cu+AmpCu

Iem: Zeus-XRA (XIV set up)

Pros: Small size, flexible, performance/value ratio

Cons: 2pin connectors look cheap and bended. Only available in 3.5mm TRS, would be better to have memory wire.

Sound Stage and Presentation: The stage is just the right size. It’s not too huge nor too small. However, the depth of the stage isn’t on par with TOTL cable. The sound tends to go a bit to slightly warmer than neutral (Zeus is kinda on the cold side. With Linum bax, it seems a bit warmer.). Speed is really good so it sounds smooth.

Low: Bass is tight, and very fast. Decay time is very very short. Not much of texture details but impact is good. It doesn’t reach as deep as TOTL cable like Heracles but it still better than stock cable.

Mid: Vocal is forward. It seems to bring more details to vocal than bass.

High: High has very nice sparkles with slight roll-off to reduce the harshness and sharpness not to pierce your ears.


Score

Soundstage width: 7/10

Soundstage depth: 5/10

Bass: 7.5/10

Mid: 8.5/10

High: 8/10

Value: 8/10



Original Cable Orpheus MK5 8-wire (180 USD) (Copper Cable)

Connection: 2pin, 3.5mm TRS (in house copper plug)

Source: AK380Cu+AmpCu

Iem: Zeus-XRA (XIV set up)

Pros: strong 2-pin connector, deep bass, warm, best bang for the bucks for cable under $200 that I’ve tried.

Cons: Harsh Treble, The in house 3.5mm plug sometimes short-circuit with AK380Cu amp causing a lot of hiss, cable can be tangle easy if not roll right (I let my friend borrowed and she ruined it T_T)

Sound Stage and Presentation: MK 5 seems to have similar width to other cable in the $200 region; however, I found it to have a better depth. Due to the nature of copper cable, it makes the sound warm.

Bass: Bass hits deep and rumble. It has very nice impact with Zeus-XRA.

Mid: Vocal is not forward but rather hide within the band instruments.

High: High has a clear sparkle but harsh. It could be piercing and unpleasant to hear after long listening time.

Score

Soundstage width: 7.5/10

Soundstage depth: 7/10

Bass: 8.5/10

Mid: 8/10

High: 8/10

Value: 8.5/10



Original Cable Zeus UE X 8-wire (300 USD) (Silver Cable)

Connection: 2pin, 3.5mm TRS (in house plug)

Source: AK380Cu+AmpCu

Iem: Zeus-XRA (XIV set up)

Pros: Micro details, soundstage width.

Cons: bass isn’t boomy, distance between each musical instruments doesn’t scale really with increase stage in some songs. Too technical.

Sound Stage and Presentation: Sound stage is very wide and depth is pretty good for cable at this price. However, distance between musical instruments doesn’t scale with increase stage. It seems like cymbal are pushed to the side of the stage while other instruments cluster in the middle. Also, because of wider stage than MK5, bass seems to have way less impact. Speed is very similar to MK5.

Bass: Bass hits deep but lack body and impact. However, you can hear a bit more details than MK5.

Mid: Vocal is not forward but rather hide within the band instruments. Imaging is very precise.

High: High has a clear and nice sparkles. Details are very good. This is where it outshines its little brother MK5.

Score

Soundstage width: 9/10

Soundstage depth: 8/10

Bass: 8/10

Mid: 8.5/10

High: 8.5/10

Value: 8/10



Original Cable OC Au X 8-wire (550 USD) (Gold Plated Silver Cable)

Connection: 2pin, 2.5mm TRRS Furutech Cabron Plug

Source: AK380Cu+AmpCu

Iem: Zeus-XRA (XIV set up)

Pros: Boomy bass, large soundstage, Sparkles

Cons: Price

OC Au X is the best cable under Original Cable brand. It combines the best things from Orpheus MK5 and Zeus UEX.

Sound Stage and Presentation: It has its middle brother Zeus UEX soundstage. However, this time everything scales with the increase stage size. It’s not too technical probably due to the gold plated. To me, it feels like this is the Zeus UEX in the warmer side with proper stage presentation.

Bass: Bass hits deep and rumble with lots of details comparing to MK5. It has very nice impact with Zeus-XRA.

Mid: Vocal is positioned a bit forward. It is well pronounce with body and impact.

High: High has a clear sparkle with slightly roll-off to reduce sharpness and harshness. This provides more details and air.

Score

Soundstage width:  9/10

Soundstage depth: 8/10

Bass: 8.5/10

Mid: 9/10

High: 9/10

Value: 9/10



Effect Audio Heracles 8-wire (1500 USD)

Connection: 2pin, 2.5 mm TRRS

Source: AK380Cu+AmpCu

Iem: Zeus-XRA (XIV set up)

Pros: Boomy bass, large soundstage

Cons: Very Very Very Very Expensive

Sound Stage and Presentation: Heracles is beast in soundstage

Bass: Full body bass which hits deep, hard and rumble with lots of details. This is the most impactful cable in EA line that I’ve tried

Mid: Vocal is positioned a bit forward. It is well pronounce with body and impact.

High: High has a clear sparkle with slightly roll-off to reduce sharpness and harshness. This provides more details and air.

Score

Soundstage width:  10/10

Soundstage depth: 8.5/10

Bass: 10/10

Mid: 9.5/10

High: 9/10

Value: 6/10



Effect Audio  Mars 4-wire + Leonidas 4-wire bespoke (1700 USD)

Connection: 2pin, 2.5 mm TRRS

Source: AK380Cu+AmpCu

Iem: Zeus-XRA (XIV set up)

Pros: Technical Beast

Cons: Very Very Very Very Expensive

Sound Stage and Presentation:  Same as Heracles, beast in soundstage

Bass: Full body bass which hits deep, hard and rumble with lots of details. It’s really good but not as good as Heracles.

Mid: Vocal is positioned a bit forward. It is well pronounce with body and impact.

High: High has a clear sparkle with no roll-off to reduce. However, it’s not at all piercing, harsh, and too sharp. You will feel more air than Heracles

Score

Soundstage width:  10/10

Soundstage depth: 8.5/10

Bass: 9/10

Mid: 9.5/10

High: 10/10

Value: 5.5/10



P.S. Forgot to mention that OC Cable are single core ultra pure OCC cable while Effect Audio cable are Litz bundle.


----------



## ironpeg

For those who would like to know how OC Au X performs against EA Heracles, and EA Mars+Leo bespoke.
The best things to describe is EA Heracles and EA MLB are a step a head of OC Au X.
However, if you consider price as one of your benchmark, OC would definitely win.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 13, 2017)

@ironpeg How do you think about copper-plated plug? Previously, I've assumed that the more conductivity the more transparent sound (in a good way). After I read your impression of MK5 + copper-plated, it seems I should change my mind. Do you think the occurrence of harsh sound comes from copper-plated plug? Normally pure copper wires has never produce harsh treble but mostly find in pure silver wires. Does ZEUS UEX use copper-plated plug?

Nowadays there are copper-plated, gold-plated, rhodium-plated, platinum-plated. Also Terrium Copper 2-pin connector that always find in some High-End cables. Which metal-plated do you like?


----------



## Rei87

chaiyuta said:


> @ironpeg How do you think about copper-plated plug? Previously, I've assumed that the more conductivity the more transparent sound (in a good way). After I read your impression of MK5 + copper-plated, it seems I should change my mind. Do you think the occurrence of harsh sound comes from copper-plated? Nowadays there are copper-plated, gold-plated, rhodium-plated, platinum-plated. Also Terrium Copper 2-pin connector that always find in some High-End cables. Which metal-plated do you like? Does ZEUS UEX use copper-plated plug?



I believe that rather than plating, priority should be given to the metal used in the core of the plug. I've tried oyaide's gold/rhodium/platinum plated plugs, and all of them sound inferior in both bass impact and depth presentation compared to Furutech's copper core plugs. 

But, personally, if I has to choose, I would go for Oyaide's standard gold plating for I felt that it gives the best sonic characteristics out of all the plugs. The earlier rhodium sounds slightly worse, and the new platinum plug is a joke which loses both resolution and depth, and the only thing going for it is its price and 'wow' factor.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Rei87  How many percentage do you think that plug has effect to sound quality? I've never done A/B test (only plug change) with other same environments.


----------



## ironpeg

chaiyuta said:


> @ironpeg How do you think about copper-plated plug? Previously, I've assumed that the more conductivity the more transparent sound (in a good way). After I read your impression of MK5 + copper-plated, it seems I should change my mind. Do you think the occurrence of harsh sound comes from copper-plated plug? Normally pure copper wires has never produce harsh treble but mostly find in pure silver wires. Does ZEUS UEX use copper-plated plug?
> 
> Nowadays there are copper-plated, gold-plated, rhodium-plated, platinum-plated. Also Terrium Copper 2-pin connector that always find in some High-End cables. Which metal-plated do you like?



TBH, I think MK5's treble is harsh because of the tuning not the copper plug. However, it seems to me that the copper plugs really helps bass impact.
Zeus UEX doesn't come with in house copper plug. But for some reason, its treble is more pleasant to listen than MK5.

Overall, I'd pick MK5 rather than UEX.


----------



## Rei87

chaiyuta said:


> @Rei87  How many percentage do you think that plug has effect to sound quality? I've never done A/B test (only plug change) with other same environments.



I can't give an exact percentage, but I feel that its one of those things that will start to make a difference only after you have already completed the rest of your chain. Then again, if I take a stab in the dark and put a ballpark percentage to it, I feel that it can make anywhere from 10-15% difference. But, this is only if your gear is sensitive enough to pick up those nuances to begin with.


----------



## flipper203

I have a yy pro audio Tucana cable, and I have oxydation on the cable. Is it normal ? I don't understand how it can happen on a cable of that price


----------



## jmills8

flipper203 said:


> I have a yy pro audio Tucana cable, and I have oxydation on the cable. Is it normal ? I don't understand how it can happen on a cable of that price


 It happens. Maybe they should have wrapped the cable in something dark.


----------



## Kerouac (Jun 14, 2017)

flipper203 said:


> I have a yy pro audio Tucana cable, and I have oxydation on the cable. Is it normal ? I don't understand how it can happen on a cable of that price


I think oxidation happens to a lot of copper cables, but yeah, Tucana ain't exactly cheap ($550 retail). As far as I know it doesn't influence the sq, but the greenish parts often don't look that pretty 
My (few months old, 8-braid) Tucana has a sleeve up to the splitter to avoid this => so far so good...



Maybe the guys at YY Pro Audio can help you.


----------



## PinkyPowers (Jun 14, 2017)

I still haven't tried this out on the U12 yet, but I sure rocked out to this pairing all day at work. The plusSound X-Series GPC Litz adds the fullness and just that touch of warmth Encore lacked with my usual small gauge SPC Litz. I absolutely loved what I was hearing. One of the finest listening experiences I've had.


----------



## NickL33

PinkyPowers said:


> I still haven't tried this out on the U12 yet, but I sure rocked out to this pairing all day at work. The plusSound X-Series GPC Litz adds the fullness and just that touch of warmth Encore lacked with my usual small gauge SPC Litz. I absolutely loved what I was hearing. One of the finest listening experiences I've had.



Comparing this to the ref8? Does this match more?


----------



## RyanLuong

I see some Audio Cable brands like Brimar, Toxic,... advertise that the purity of silver used for their cables is 7N. But another famous brand, Double Helix cables keep insisting that 6N silver is the highest purity in the world with reliable evidences from Acrotec. I am quite confused and dont know who to trust. Does anyone have the most reliable evidences about the purity of silver, which indicates that 6N, 7N or 8N does exist or not?


----------



## jmills8

BatToys said:


> I see some Audio Cable brands like Brimar, Toxic,... advertise that the purity of silver used for their cables is 7N. But another famous brand, Double Helix cables keep insisting that 6N silver is the highest purity in the world with reliable evidences from Acrotec. I am quite confused and dont know who to trust. Does anyone have the most reliable evidences about the purity of silver, which indicates that 6N, 7N or 8N does exist or not?


I really like DHC.


----------



## chaiyuta

PinkyPowers said:


> I still haven't tried this out on the U12 yet, but I sure rocked out to this pairing all day at work. The plusSound X-Series GPC Litz adds the fullness and just that touch of warmth Encore lacked with my usual small gauge SPC Litz. I absolutely loved what I was hearing. One of the finest listening experiences I've had.



I just checked their website. GPC already becomes Litz. I remember that last year GPC of Plussound is not Litz. Good News.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Yep, plusSound just released an update to their GPC.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> I keep wondering if the balanced out on my AK70 will be worth using or not, there are so many contrasting reports on its performance.
> 
> Sometimes I wish I had stuck with Sony. The WM1A/Z seems to have done the balanced out really well and the battery life is so nice to have. My AK70 can do up to 10 hours and I am constantly charging, whereas my little bitty A15 can keep going for 2 or 3 hours even when it is indicating the battery is empty. The WM1A/Z also has something like 30+ hours and is really convenient while on 12 hour journeys like I did last week.



The BAL out of the AK70 is considerably warmer than the SE output. It's more full bodied, treble is less prominent, and it has a more laidback presentation. The SE output has a more energetic and sparkly treble, and a thumpier and tighter bass. This gives the SE output more clarity, transparency, fun, and engagement. The BAL out though has a slightly larger soundstage, more depth, and better L/R separation.


----------



## Whazzzup

Wow, 
*Symbiote Elite 19 – 18.8awg OCC Silver – Ultimate 2 pin CIEM Cable*
Darn it got my v3 8 braid before its launch at double helix. Oh well Black Friday deal on my v3 will have to do, but I'd order this.


----------



## Whazzzup

Sorry not sure what happened with the font


----------



## chaiyuta

@Whazzzup  Don't cry. First buy First hear. Fun Fun.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> The BAL out of the AK70 is considerably warmer than the SE output. It's more full bodied, treble is less prominent, and it has a more laidback presentation. The SE output has a more energetic and sparkly treble, and a thumpier and tighter bass. This gives the SE output more clarity, transparency, fun, and engagement. The BAL out though has a slightly larger soundstage, more depth, and better L/R separation.


Thanks for the info, very helpful! Will see if I can at some point get a balanced cable to try it out for myself. I always like "laid back".


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> Thanks for the info, very helpful! Will see if I can at some point get a balanced cable to try it out for myself. I always like "laid back".



No problem! Considering your IEMs are the CA Ei.3, the presentation of the BAL output would pair better I reckon.

Anyways, back to cables, I'm looking for a cable to pair with my Zeus-XR. I'm currently pairing it with the Han Sound Audio Zen and I love its natural tonality, but I'm looking to add a transparency and cleanliness to the sound; a boost in technical performance without altering the FR. 

So far, my interest has been piqued by PS's new GPC Litz and EA's Lionheart, but I haven't heard the 1960s in a while and that may be a candidate as well. Do you guys know of anything else that might tickle my fancy? Thanks in advance!


----------



## flinkenick

Hello everybody, I recently reviewed newcomer HanSound Audio's Aurora, a 6 wire hybrid with silver and silver-gold wires:

http://theheadphonelist.com/hansound-audio-aurora/


----------



## SeeSax

PinkyPowers said:


> I still haven't tried this out on the U12 yet, but I sure rocked out to this pairing all day at work. The plusSound X-Series GPC Litz adds the fullness and just that touch of warmth Encore lacked with my usual small gauge SPC Litz. I absolutely loved what I was hearing. One of the finest listening experiences I've had.



That looks like a really comfy, ergonomic cable. I have the normal copper one just like it and haven't though to try it with my K10, but I will now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this cool cable. 

BTW, sent you a PM a few days ago 

-Collin-


----------



## PinkyPowers

SeeSax said:


> That looks like a really comfy, ergonomic cable. I have the normal copper one just like it and haven't though to try it with my K10, but I will now. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this cool cable.
> 
> BTW, sent you a PM a few days ago
> 
> -Collin-



PM sent.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> No problem! Considering your IEMs are the CA Ei.3, the presentation of the BAL output would pair better I reckon.


That could very well be. I switched from the stock cable to the Effect Audio 'Eline' (preproduction) and that is an SPC cable that provides a smoother treble and larger stage, which I felt really benefitted the Ei.3. I hope I can try one of the other Effect Audio cables soon and get that with 2.5mm TRRS. The Ares II and Eros should work very well. However, based on what you said I think that perhaps a Thor Silver might also work from the balanced out. Considering I listen to a lot of classical symphonies that benefit from a bigger stage and better separation, I can see sense in it.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> That could very well be. I switched from the stock cable to the Effect Audio 'Eline' (preproduction) and that is an SPC cable that provides a smoother treble and larger stage, which I felt really benefitted the Ei.3. I hope I can try one of the other Effect Audio cables soon and get that with 2.5mm TRRS. The Ares II and Eros should work very well. However, based on what you said I think that perhaps a Thor Silver might also work from the balanced out. Considering I listen to a lot of classical symphonies that benefit from a bigger stage and better separation, I can see sense in it.



Ahh, the Eline sounds like a Thor Copper successor, nice! The Thor Silver II will aid in soundstage and imaging due to its increased clarity, but it also has a warm and euphonic midrange, which makes its focus more on musicality rather than technicality. If you want better separation around that price point, I can recommend either the DHC Symbiote SP V3, or the 8-wire version of the Ares II.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Ahh, the Eline sounds like a Thor Copper successor, nice! The Thor Silver II will aid in soundstage and imaging due to its increased clarity, but it also has a warm and euphonic midrange, which makes its focus more on musicality rather than technicality. If you want better separation around that price point, I can recommend either the DHC Symbiote SP V3, or the 8-wire version of the Ares II.


Thanks! Will check those out as well. 

The Eline is not, I believe, a Thor Copper successor. From what I understood it is a new entry-level cable, but Effect Audio is still working on finalising the design (just the parts, the cable itself is finished).


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> Thanks! Will check those out as well.
> 
> The Eline is not, I believe, a Thor Copper successor. From what I understood it is a new entry-level cable, but Effect Audio is still working on finalising the design (just the parts, the cable itself is finished).



I see, so it's an Effect Audio Apollo successor!  I haven't seen that cable in such a long time, one of the OGs in Asia's IEM cable industry.


----------



## PinkyPowers

I found some time this weekend to write up my review of this lovely cable.

*Muscle and Heart – A Review of the plusSound X-Series GPC Litz

 *


----------



## NickL33

PinkyPowers said:


> I found some time this weekend to write up my review of this lovely cable.
> 
> *Muscle and Heart – A Review of the plusSound X-Series GPC Litz
> 
> *



Nice review! This might be the cable I am looking for my K10


----------



## Deezel177 (Jun 21, 2017)

As a follow-up to my search for a cable to pair with my Zeus-XR, I tried five cables at Akihabara's e-earphone; four from Effect Audio and one from Labkable. I was honestly disappointed to see the lack of available demos for the products they sold. There were also tons of demos only available with MMCX connectors, and I didn't have a 2-pin adapter unfortunately. Nonetheless, the following are my impressions:

Labkable Takumi: The Takumi is an 8-wire cable with silver-gold, SPC, and copper conductors (according to @MikePortnoy's review). I found the Takumi very coloured and thus completely unsuitable for what I was looking for, but it had very interesting properties. It was a rather v-shaped cable, with a full and impactful bass, and an accentuated upper midrange. Its bottom-end is full and thumpy, its midrange is neutral and rather transparent, and its treble is very sparkly, potentially sounding sharp and sibilant with the wrong pairing. Layering and clarity gets a boost due to the upper-mid spike, and soundstaging is deeper than it is wider. A unique cable with a unique sound, but not the one to get for the XR IMO.

Effect Audio Leonidas: The Leonidas is one of Effect Audio's most highly-regarded cables, but I was never a huge fan of its price-to-performance ratio. I tried it again with an open mind, but unfortunately, my opinion still stood. I still enjoy its bass, which is superbly natural, and its midrange, which is sweet and intimate, but I find it lacks air and sparkle in the upper registers to sound articulate and clear, as well as the proper dynamics to sound fun or engaging. Its soundstage is also naturally spaced, but layering takes a hit from the relaxed highs. It's a more euphonic and laidback cable, and I favor its musicality more than its technicalities.

Effect Audio Mars: The Mars, in the short audition I had with it, sounded very similar to the Leonidas, except with a more exciting upper midrange. I felt it improved on the Leonidas by being a more technical cable, but it still had the Leonidas's problem of a lack in dynamism and punch.

Effect Audio Ares II (8-wire): The Ares II has, by now, become an extremely popular cable and I was fortunate enough to try its 8-wire version. This is where things started to go in the right direction. Dynamics were still a bit lacking in the midrange, but transparency, clarity, and layering all received a bump, due to a more neutral, immediate, and textured signature. I was surprised by the Ares II 8-wire as it didn't carry the typical "copper" sound. It was fast, tight, and even sparkly in the upper midrange/treble. It was still more colored than natural, but it was decently engaging, and pretty close to what I was looking for.

Effect Audio Lionheart: This is what I was looking for. It wasn't long into the audition that I realized the Lionheart's signature was very much complimentary to the Zeus-XR's. It's a cable that is full-bodied, energetic, engaging, and technically strong as well. Plus, it was finally punchy and dynamic enough to fully grab my attention. Bass is surprisingly close to neutral; it has more in common with the Ares II than the Leo/Mars, despite its composition resembling more of the latter. But, it had an accurate timbre, and was quite reflective of real-life instruments. Its treble is also the perfect balance between clarity/sparkle and naturalness. It doesn't colour it to boost clarity like the Thor Silver II, nor does it roll off to sound organic like the Leo; it's just right. The midrange, though, is where this cable shines. It's forward, bold, and brilliantly natural, with layering, transparency, and detail retrieval in spades. Female vocals and instruments "came alive" in a way that wasn't present in the previous cables, achieving that last 10% I was looking for in the Zeus's sound. I was incredibly happy with the cable, and moreso to found out that it was in stock when I went to purchase it, despite its reported scarcity worldwide. It is now attached to my XR and I couldn't be happier.

This concludes my little shoot-out at Akihabara's e-earphone. I'll be headed to both Osaka's e-earphone, as well as Music Sanctuary in Singapore in the coming week(s), and I can't wait to cable-roll and share further impressions soon. Who knows, maybe something out there can take the XR's *beyond *100% 

Cheers!


----------



## SoundBytes

Whazzzup said:


> Wow,
> *Symbiote Elite 19 – 18.8awg OCC Silver – Ultimate 2 pin CIEM Cable*
> Darn it got my v3 8 braid before its launch at double helix. Oh well Black Friday deal on my v3 will have to do, but I'd order this.



I did order it, have it, and absolutely love it!


----------



## artpiggo

Very nice and informative thread.
Sub'ed


----------



## SoundBytes (Jul 3, 2017)

Well here are a few pictures of my new CIEM cable from Peter Bradstock at Double Helix

Double Helix Symbiote Elite 19 - 18.8awg OCC Silver - Ultimate 2 pin CIEM Cable with Teardrop Splitter


----------



## fuhransahis

SoundBytes said:


> Well here are a few pictures of my new CIEM cable from Peter Bradstock at Double Helix
> 
> Double Helix Symbiote Elite 19 - 18.8awg OCC Silver - Ultimate 2 pin CIEM Cable with Teardrop Splitter


That splitter is awesome.


----------



## chaiyuta

@SoundBytes : It's nice. I am also interested on this one.


----------



## Wyville

That is a very nice looking cable!


----------



## jmills8

SoundBytes said:


> Well here are a few pictures of my new CIEM cable from Peter Bradstock at Double Helix
> 
> Double Helix Symbiote Elite 19 - 18.8awg OCC Silver - Ultimate 2 pin CIEM Cable with Teardrop Splitter


DHC and Beat Audio my two fav cable companies.


----------



## twister6

SoundBytes said:


> Well here are a few pictures of my new CIEM cable from Peter Bradstock at Double Helix
> 
> Double Helix Symbiote Elite 19 - 18.8awg OCC Silver - Ultimate 2 pin CIEM Cable with Teardrop Splitter



4 conductors with 19 gauge wires for IEM use?!?  I draw the line at 22awg, the gauge of Thor II+ and TWag v4 which is already thick and on a heavier side.  It looks very nice, and lightweight y-splitter and o-ring chin slider will cut down on weght.  Of course, depends on a personal preference, but in my opinion 19awg 4-conductors might be too thick and heavy for a portable IEM use on the go, though the cable resistance will be quite low.


----------



## SoundBytes

Thanks everyone for the likes.  And twister6, thank you for your comments.  I'm not worried about heavy on this one, though, I believe Peter has mitigated it with the features you mention.  
Coupled with the AK source SP1000, I'm really looking forward to something special.


----------



## jmills8

SoundBytes said:


> Thanks everyone for the likes.  And twister6, thank you for your comments.  I'm not worried about heavy on this one, though, I believe Peter has mitigated it with the features you mention.
> Coupled with the AK source SP1000, I'm really looking forward to something special.


Well, you are a strong guy. A very strong guy.


----------



## jmills8

If I have a cable with a 3.5 connection and I replace the 3.5 with a 2.5 connection will that make the cable balanced?


----------



## chaiyuta

jmills8 said:


> If I have a cable with a 3.5 connection and I replace the 3.5 with a 2.5 connection will that make the cable balanced?


If your cable is 4, 6 or 8-braid. It is possible to re-terminate from 3.5SE to 2.5BL.


----------



## jmills8

chaiyuta said:


> If your cable is 4, 6 or 8-braid. It is possible to re-terminate from 3.5SE to 2.5BL.


Its the high end Beat Audio 4 wire.


----------



## chaiyuta

jmills8 said:


> Its the high end Beat Audio 4 wire.


Yes, It can be re-terminated.


----------



## jmills8

chaiyuta said:


> Yes, It can be re-terminated.


Cool and thanks.


----------



## SoundBytes

Well I got both cables and here are a few pictures of what everything looks like.  Cables came out great and huge difference to the UE 18+ Pros... DHC did a great job.  The cable bag is nice too.


----------



## chaiyuta

Oh, both cables are DHC Symboite Elite19. The cable looks so beefy.


----------



## SoundBytes

chaiyuta said:


> Oh, both cables are DHC Symboite Elite19. The cable looks so beefy.



beefy and beautiful...and they are not too beefy as to be uncomfortable.  They fit well and work well for travel, no bulk, no weight.


----------



## PinkyPowers

plusSound took that X6 T-Metal cable they made for IEMs and went and turned it into something I could use for my Audeze LCD-2.2F. They also gave me much needed extension.


----------



## SeeSax

jmills8 said:


> Cool and thanks.



I've had eight cables (I think) re-terminated to 2.5mm by David at Triton Audio Cables (@alpha421) with excellent results. 

-Collin-


----------



## artpiggo

Might be off topic. But does anyone care or serious about matching cable with solder and plug 's brand. Or just let the technician decide himself?


----------



## Deezel177

artpiggo said:


> Might be off topic. But does anyone care or serious about matching cable with solder and plug 's brand. Or just let the technician decide himself?



I, personally, haven't done any comparisons between solders and plugs myself, but generally speaking, in Singapore, there's somewhat of a consensus that Mundorf Supreme Silver-Gold solder and Furutech plugs are superior in quality compared to other brands.


----------



## jmills8

I went into two audio shops in Hong Kong askung for a $50 two pin iem cable and both shops told me to leave. One yelled that he had no time and he pointed his finger to leave.


----------



## ranfan

jmills8 said:


> I went into two audio shops in Hong Kong askung for a $50 two pin iem cable and both shops told me to leave. One yelled that he had no time and he pointed his finger to leave.


What did you do?


----------



## jmills8

ranfan said:


> What did you do?


Walked out, I was with my 6 yr old daughter who translated for me. If owner knows there will be no sale they get very aggressive. If you a buyer and they sense you will buy they becone the nicest person you ever met.


----------



## PinkyPowers

jmills8 said:


> Walked out, I was with my 6 yr old daughter who translated for me. If owner knows there will be no sale they get very aggressive. If you a buyer and they sense you will buy they becone the nicest person you ever met.



lol. Let me guess, you asked your question with a tone which made it perfectly clear you'd never in a million years be willing to spend more than $50 on a cable.


----------



## jmills8

PinkyPowers said:


> lol. Let me guess, you asked your question with a tone which made it perfectly clear you'd never in a million years be willing to spend more than $50 on a cable.


Ooo, I said I wanted a cable for my friend as a gift. He only uses it on his phone. His iem cost $70 USD.  I myself have spent over $10,000 USD on cables.


----------



## PinkyPowers

I don't know man.  I feel you are leaving something out. Not one, but two shops threw you out. Is that just how it is over there?


----------



## jmills8

PinkyPowers said:


> I don't know man.  I feel you are leaving something out. Not one, but two shops threw you out. Is that just how it is over there?


If they dont sell it they will then have no time and no manners. I went to 20 or more shops and no store sells stock iem cables. Only $90 and up iem cables.


----------



## PinkyPowers

jmills8 said:


> If they dont sell it they will then have no time and no manners. I went to 20 or more shops and no store sells stock iem cables. Only $90 and up iem cables.



Yes, but how do they _know _they can't sell you on something more than you expected to pay?


----------



## chaiyuta

@jmills8  You might need to go VE for basic cables instead.


----------



## jmills8

chaiyuta said:


> @jmills8  You might need to go VE for basic cables instead.


A friend has a cheap iem and lost the stock cable. By cheap I mean cheap and old. So I was lioking for a stock 2 pin cable. How much would a 2 pin cost at VE?


----------



## chaiyuta

jmills8 said:


> A friend has a cheap iem and lost the stock cable. By cheap I mean cheap and old. So I was lioking for a stock 2 pin cable. How much would a 2 pin cost at VE?


The cheapest option is 17.5 USD.


----------



## jmills8

chaiyuta said:


> The cheapest option is 17.5 USD.


Thats very ideal. Thanks.


----------



## twister6

jmills8 said:


> Thats very ideal. Thanks.



also, check Penon audio budget cables, everything under $100 and there are some pretty good multi-core budget cables (I covered some here).


----------



## chaiyuta

@twister6 : This thread is going to become Low end (IEM) cable thread since we are running out of money to buy those Hi-end. lol


----------



## jmills8

Well I went to YY Audio Shop looking for affordable 2 pin cables. They said they can make it for me for less than $40 USD. Waited over one hour and a half for him to make two cables. Presto Copper 2 pin cables.


----------



## jmills8

chaiyuta said:


> @twister6 : This thread is going to become Low end (IEM) cable thread since we are running out of money to buy those Hi-end. lol


High End can mean greater than $2,000 USD and Low end can be $800 USD.


----------



## chaiyuta

jmills8 said:


> High End can mean greater than $2,000 USD and Low end can be $800 USD.


Could you provide link of YY Audio Shop? This purple cable looks nice. Anyway, OMG up to $800USD is still Low-End. lol


----------



## rtjoa

chaiyuta said:


> Could you provide link of YY Audio Shop? This purple cable looks nice. Anyway, OMG up to $800USD is still Low-End. lol


http://www.yypa.hk/


----------



## Whitigir

rtjoa said:


> http://www.yypa.hk/



Tell you what.  I am a hardcore DIY person, and these Cables are easy peasy.  But at this store you just linked, they have the most reasonable pricing to materials into produced cables that I have seen out there in the market at this moment.  I do think that any lower than this is and would be very insane, because from my own experiences, using authentic and authorized materials from dealers, working on them myself, these cables are priced at the markup of probably only 50-20% (couldn't tell exactly due to the nature of wires Sizes not being disclosed), and that is insane.

Now, one thing to be aware of is that there are a huge markets that mimic and counterfeit these wires materials.  There is no way to tell physically, and this is the reason why I only go with "authorized dealers" as the sourced for my wires.  Not saying that this place is using any of those.....but if they could show their wires authenticity and certifications by the manufacturer that would give a better piece of mind.  Again, no one could stop authorized and certified dealers to hand out counterfeit wires, but larger business and bigger places typically care more about their business than profit, and is another reason why I opt for big places myself.

Most other places i have seen is that, they marked it up from the minimum of 100% to 350% or even more.

Good find sir !



chaiyuta said:


> Could you provide link of YY Audio Shop? This purple cable looks nice. Anyway, OMG up to $800USD is still Low-End. lol



Depends, mostly expensive because of exotic materials being used.  Then if you count in mark-up, sure!  The exotic materials itself for high-end cables can easily cost u]more than $800..lol...some connectors are in the hundred dollar range.  For example Pentaconn OFC 4.4mm....Furutech 3.5mm....etc....etc.


----------



## Sound Eq (Jul 17, 2017)

hi everyone can anyone please link me to a quality 2.5mm trrs plug to use with my ak kann to convert my single 3.5mm single ended cable

my tucana cable is thick so please advise me which to buy


----------



## SeeSax

Sound Eq said:


> hi everyone can anyone please link me to a quality 2.5mm trrs plug to use with my ak kann to convert my single 3.5mm single ended cable
> 
> my tucana cable is thick so please advise me which to buy



Eidolic makes a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter I believe. But wouldn't you want to just re-terminate the cable so that you can use it fully balanced out of your A&K player? I've had this done a few times and can recommend a place if you want to consider that.


----------



## PinkyPowers

You cannot make a TRS cable a TRRS with an adapter. You must reterminate. 

The whole point of balanced is that the -L & -R never join. NEVER. If you use an adapter, those two signals will join at the original plug, which will short out whatever balanced amp you are using. This will very likely damage your device. Don't do it. Don't even think about it. Scrub your mind of such nonsense, go hither, and live right.


----------



## artpiggo (Jul 17, 2017)

Recommend either Furutech Rhodium 2.5 mm or eidolic carbon fiber 2.5 mm TRRS for retermination. it has enough space for putting cable in and they are decent brands making a good quality plug for a long time.
https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-e2-5g-bc-astell-kern-carbon-fiber-2-5mm-plug-new/
https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/diy-parts
By the way, what is the diameter of your cable? if it is less than 7 mm, it is okay.

If not, this one should be used. cuz it has 8 mm hole
https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-2-5mm-spacious-barrel-for-astell-kern-4-pole-trrs/


----------



## Sound Eq

PinkyPowers said:


> You cannot make a TRS cable a TRRS with an adapter. You must reterminate.
> 
> The whole point of balanced is that the -L & -R never join. NEVER. If you use an adapter, those two signals will join at the original plug, which will short out whatever balanced amp you are using. This will very likely damage your device. Don't do it. Don't even think about it. Scrub your mind of such nonsense, go hither, and live right.


What I meant is to reteeminate the 3.5 mm plug with a trrs 2.5mm plug so I will remove the single ended plug and solder a 2.5 trrs. Am I right in my approach that this is the right way ?


----------



## Deezel177

Sound Eq said:


> What I meant is to reteeminate the 3.5 mm plug with a trrs 2.5mm plug so I will remove the single ended plug and solder a 2.5 trrs. Am I right in my approach that this is the right way ?



Yes, this is correct. @artpiggo's part suggestions are spot-on IMO.


----------



## Sound Eq (Jul 19, 2017)

artpiggo said:


> Recommend either Furutech Rhodium 2.5 mm or eidolic carbon fiber 2.5 mm TRRS for retermination. it has enough space for putting cable in and they are decent brands making a good quality plug for a long time.
> https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-e2-5g-bc-astell-kern-carbon-fiber-2-5mm-plug-new/
> https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/diy-parts
> By the way, what is the diameter of your cable? if it is less than 7 mm, it is okay.
> ...


hi its 5mm thick so do you think the first 2 links are fine, or should I go with the 8mm plug option, also was wondering if I can find it on ebay to get better shipping costs options to Israel, as for example the shipping costs to israel is insane about 90 usd from music sanctuary, and from double helix its about 60 usd. Those are insane shipping prices

do you think this one below is a good option as shipping is free to israel?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-Shel...hash=item3aded90743:m:m_PmHD2VQbvZ5UfKLPObdMA


----------



## artpiggo

Yes It will work out. But I am not sure on its quality.

But just curious question, aren't there any local cable DIYer in your area? Maybe they have some good plugs to resale for.


----------



## Sound Eq

artpiggo said:


> Yes It will work out. But I am not sure on its quality.
> 
> But just curious question, aren't there any local cable DIYer in your area? Maybe they have some good plugs to resale for.


not at all which really is frustrating

can you maybe recommend anything else on ebay


----------



## artpiggo

Sound Eq said:


> not at all which really is frustrating
> 
> can you maybe recommend anything else on ebay



Search ranko 2.5 trrs on ebay. Ranko is a good brand from China Manufacturer. I used to use their plug also as a budget 2.5 TRRS plug for some fun modding.


----------



## Sound Eq

artpiggo said:


> Search ranko 2.5 trrs on ebay. Ranko is a good brand from China Manufacturer. I used to use their plug also as a budget 2.5 TRRS plug for some fun modding.


thanks is there any difference between gold plated and rhodium plated


----------



## artpiggo

Never tried AB test between these two. I only tried gold version of ranko.

But I have tested AB test gold plated vs rhodium plated for Furutech Brand (their 6.3 to 3.5 adapter)
Gold will give a warmth and thick sounding while rhodium gives more transparency and clearer treble.
It depends on matching with your cable I think.

Note: I don't know if my experiment will reflect same pattern to Ranko or not.


----------



## MickelJam

Last week I acquired some Noble Encores, now I'm in the market for a new cable. My budget is under $400. 

I'm new to aftermarket cables, in fact this purchase will be a first. So far I love with the sound of the Encore, so I don't want to drastically change it with a cable choice.  I'd like to widen up the soundstage and bring out greater extension and resolution. 

I'm just not sure what kind of cable to look for. I think a pure copper would add to much warmth and gold plated anything seems to be out of budget. So, I've mostly been looking at pure silver (DHC Symbiote SP and Toxic Silver Widow 24) or silver plated copper ( ALO Ref8 and Linium SuperBax).

Am I on the right track? What cable/metal would pair up best?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## PinkyPowers

MickelJam said:


> Last week I acquired some Noble Encores, now I'm in the market for a new cable. My budget is under $400.
> 
> I'm new to aftermarket cables, in fact this purchase will be a first. So far I love with the sound of the Encore, so I don't want to drastically change it with a cable choice.  I'd like to widen up the soundstage and bring out greater extension and resolution.
> 
> ...



http://theheadphonelist.com/muscle-and-heart-a-review-of-the-plussound-x-series-gpc-litz/


----------



## artpiggo

Plussound exo tri metal would be fit for your iem.


----------



## MickelJam (Jul 20, 2017)

PinkyPowers said:


> http://theheadphonelist.com/muscle-and-heart-a-review-of-the-plussound-x-series-gpc-litz/




Thanks for your recommendation of the the plussound x series. Looks like a really nice cable with great ergonomics for my commute.

It seems that the gpc adds warmth and
bass impact. When buying the Encore I was a bit torn between them and the Katana because I was afraid the Encore may be to bassy for me. I think I made the right decision, I find the low end nearly  perfect. Wouldn't want to add much to It for my taste. The treble like the bass is perfect, sparkle without any fatigue.

Based on the description on their site the gold plated hybrid seems like what I'm looking for. Does anyone have experience with the gph?


----------



## PLUSSOUND

MickelJam said:


> Thanks for your recommendation of the the plussound x series. Looks like a really nice cable with great ergonomics for my commute.
> 
> It seems that the gpc adds warmth and
> bass impact. When buying the Encore I was a bit torn between them and the Katana because I was afraid the Encore may be to bassy for me. I think I made the right decision, I find the low end nearly  perfect. Wouldn't want to add much to It for my taste.
> ...



Heres a review link of X with GPH: https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/plussound-x-series-iem-cable.21922/reviews#review-18639


----------



## Sound Eq

maybe I will not re terminate my tucana cable and just buy a new balanced cable for my 64audio u8

so what I am looking for is a cable that improves on bass impact and quality, and very important to me is to have the mids to be full layered and present, with good detail to highs and great sound stage

budget is up to 400-500 USD any help in identifying which one suits me as its a bit difficult to go through all these pages and things have changed from when the thread started until now, also its important to me that the cable turns green due to oxidation


----------



## artpiggo

Sound Eq said:


> maybe I will not re terminate my tucana cable and just buy a new balanced cable for my 64audio u8
> 
> so what I am looking for is a cable that improves on bass impact and quality, and very important to me is to have the mids to be full layered and present, with good detail to highs and great sound stage
> 
> budget is up to 400-500 USD any help in identifying which one suits me as its a bit difficult to go through all these pages and things have changed from when the thread started until now, also its important to me that the cable turns green due to oxidation



I recommend Effect Lionheart


----------



## Deezel177

Sound Eq said:


> maybe I will not re terminate my tucana cable and just buy a new balanced cable for my 64audio u8
> 
> so what I am looking for is a cable that improves on bass impact and quality, and very important to me is to have the mids to be full layered and present, with good detail to highs and great sound stage
> 
> budget is up to 400-500 USD any help in identifying which one suits me as its a bit difficult to go through all these pages and things have changed from when the thread started until now, also its important to me that the cable turns green due to oxidation



My three recommendations would be the plussound Echo+, the Effect Audio Ares II+, and the Effect Audio Lionheart. The Echo+ has some of the best bass control, impact, and resolution I've heard from a cable, with well-layered and decently transparent mids. The only weakness I found with it is its treble can sound a bit laidback or relaxed with minimal sparkle. The Ares II+ is a more bodied-and-rich-sounding cable with a fuller low end, a laidback and wide midrange, and decent air in the treble. The focus here is definitely the mid-bass though. Its ergonomics are also sub-par compared to the other two. The Lionheart is a more mid-forward-sounding cable. Its bass is lush and natural, with good control and great depth, its midrange is beautifully dynamic and lively, and its treble has enough control and energy to sound both clear and organic. All three are composed of Litz wires, and so neither of them will oxidise if well-made and well taken care of.


----------



## ciukas

Just ordered the Effect Audio Lionheart for my LCDi4. The stock cable is copper based with silver coating. I love how it sounds so didnt want to risk going silver and change its characteristics too much. More of the same is in order.

Given a 2-3 week lead time


----------



## Wyville

Sound Eq said:


> maybe I will not re terminate my tucana cable and just buy a new balanced cable for my 64audio u8
> 
> so what I am looking for is a cable that improves on bass impact and quality, and very important to me is to have the mids to be full layered and present, with good detail to highs and great sound stage
> 
> budget is up to 400-500 USD any help in identifying which one suits me as its a bit difficult to go through all these pages and things have changed from when the thread started until now, also its important to me that the cable turns green due to oxidation


Was just reading @flinkenick 's impressions of Canjam over at The Headphone List and as came across his opinion on the Leonidas I remembered your post. I think this is in line with what others have mentioned in this thread...

"_*Leonidas* is one of their most popular models, offering one of my favorite bass responses for a cable. The quantity of the bass is not necessarily enhanced, but it’s a very punchy, hard-hitting bass, due to the clarity of the impact of its bass. Due to a dip in the upper bass, its stage is very clean, and the sound is transparent. It leans towards a reference signature, with excellent separation and a high level of detail, but with a special bass as ‘fun’ element._" - http://theheadphonelist.com/brief-impressions-canjam-london-2017/2


----------



## PinkyPowers

For that airier, more treble-extended sound, I can recommend the ALO Reference 8.

http://theheadphonelist.com/her-swe...view-of-the-alo-audio-reference-8-ciem-cable/


----------



## ranfan (Jul 20, 2017)

First time I tried Labkable Titan I was really impressed (more like floored) as well. I think Nic described its sound better than I could here:
_"But nothing compared to their flagship *Titan* models, which offered one of the highest resolution I have heard in a cable. As a result of its excellent top-end extension, it provides a remarkably clean sound, with excellent definition. As a result of its clean stage and stable black background, the separation was excellent as well."_ http://theheadphonelist.com/brief-impressions-canjam-london-2017/2/

A really good cable  Wish I could afford it.


----------



## artpiggo

Would like to ask for suggestion as well. If I would like to upgrade cable for HD800 to sound less sibilance and more euphonic vocal and a bit more engaging while I am satisfied with bass from cardas already.

Would like 2 options for
1. Best pound per pound option
2. Best of Best Option by not considering price.


----------



## Sound Eq

thinks for all suggestion, but the term air mds or transparent mids is bit not clear to me as i like the mids to be thick and very present in addition to bass 

can u please shed more light on this and which cable suits me best


----------



## artpiggo

Sound Eq said:


> thinks for all suggestion, but the term air mds or transparent mids is bit not clear to me as i like the mids to be thick and very present in addition to bass
> 
> can u please shed more light on this and which cable suits me best



*Maybe this one. Have once test with UE900 and it adds mid and bass quite noticeable.
Rhapsodio - Nylon Shield NS-C (CU) 6N Mono Crystal Copper with Nylon Shield



*


----------



## Deezel177

artpiggo said:


> Would like to ask for suggestion as well. If I would like to upgrade cable for HD800 to sound less sibilance and more euphonic vocal and a bit more engaging while I am satisfied with bass from cardas already.
> 
> Would like 2 options for
> 1. Best pound per pound option
> 2. Best of Best Option by not considering price.



The best pound-per-pound option would probably be the Ares II+ and the Norne Therium. I'd consider the PWAudio Single-Crystal Silver too. Both the Norne and the PWAudio cables are the most mellow and rich silver cables I've ever tried.

The best-of-the-best option would probably be the PWAudio 1960s 2-wire. Your description of the sound you want is perfectly in line with the sound of the 2-wire 1960s.



Sound Eq said:


> thinks for all suggestion, but the term air mds or transparent mids is bit not clear to me as i like the mids to be thick and very present in addition to bass
> 
> can u please shed more light on this and which cable suits me best



A transparent midrange is one that is well-layered, bodied, and detailed. Airiness in the upper-mids can still mean a thick midrange, it just probaby won't sound as coherent. Judging from your description, then maybe the Ares II+ would work best.


----------



## ezekiel77

artpiggo said:


> 2. Best of Best Option by not considering price.



Cost no object, try Danacables Lazuli Reference. It's a thick copper that is very engaging, smooths out the top end, improves imaging, yet retains most of the detail. I use it with my HD800S (and all of my other cans). No complaints whatsoever.


----------



## twister6

Cable thread has been quiet lately.  Let's bring some life to it 

Just posted @EffectAudio Lionheart cable review, I think you guys/gals might enjoy it.

https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/


----------



## Wyville

twister6 said:


> Cable thread has been quiet lately.  Let's bring some life to it
> 
> Just posted @EffectAudio Lionheart cable review, I think you guys/gals might enjoy it.
> 
> https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/


Great review! I really liked how you did the sound analysis with various IEMs and the different cable comparisons. A very interesting read! 

I hope I will soon receive a balanced Ares II from @ostewart who graciously let me borrow his to see if it will give the improvements to my Ei.3's signature I am looking for. I can't do a full review on it, but will post my impressions once I have had some time with it.


----------



## NickL33

Hey Nick is the PWaudio no5 review ready?


----------



## flinkenick

NickL33 said:


> Hey Nick is the PWaudio no5 review ready?


Sorry man, the pins of the no 5 got bent when I was travelling so I had to ship it back again. It's been more away than in my keeping unfortunately. 

As a rough guide for the three cables, HanSound Audio Zen, PW no 5, and Ares II, I would say the following: 
Ares II and no 5 sound cleaner than Zen, as a result of a slight dip in the upper bass. Zen on the other hand sounds a bit warmer and smoother, a slightly thicker sound so to speak. Ares II has great transparency, and a slightly brighter and leaner sound. It offers the best separation and detail, and pairs excellently with warm or thick sounding iems, or if you just prioritise technical performance. No 5 shares some similarities with Ares II, like good top-end extension and a clean sound. It sounds only slightly warm, but it has a good timbre. Vocals sound clear, and have nice size and balance throughout the vocal range. The treble is slightly attenuated but articulate, with a modest touch of sparkle.


----------



## NickL33

flinkenick said:


> Sorry man, the pins of the no 5 got bent when I was travelling so I had to ship it back again. It's been more away than in my keeping unfortunately.
> 
> As a rough guide for the three cables, HanSound Audio Zen, PW no 5, and Ares II, I would say the following:
> Ares II and no 5 sound cleaner than Zen, as a result of a slight dip in the upper bass. Zen on the other hand sounds a bit warmer and smoother, a slightly thicker sound so to speak. Ares II has great transparency, and a slightly brighter and leaner sound. It offers the best separation and detail, and pairs excellently with warm or thick sounding iems, or if you just prioritise technical performance. No 5 shares some similarities with Ares II, like good top-end extension and a clean sound. It sounds only slightly warm, but it has a good timbre. Vocals sound clear, and have nice size and balance throughout the vocal range. The treble is slightly attenuated but articulate, with a modest touch of sparkle.



So no5 speration, detail and resolution not as high as ares?


----------



## flinkenick

Well realistically we are talking about minor differences. No 5 and Ares II are more similar than different, it's more where you place a certain accent.


----------



## SeeSax

Hello fellow enthusiasts! I received a new cable the other day and thought I would post some thoughts here. I purchased a SilverFi IEM-X cable here from the classifieds to use with my S-EM9 Earsonics IEMs. I will echo what @flinkenick said in a previous post: if there are people who do not believe cables make a difference, I challenge them to try a SilverFi cable. Even I was skeptical that the differences were anything more than minor before, but after 30 seconds with this new cable it completely transformed my thought process. I've shuffled through a handful of pure silver cables on the S-EM9 and it ranged from a bit stronger in the bass department to a little more energy up top, but this cable seriously made these sound like different IEMs. The IEM-X added a massively warm tone that still has incredible detail. I have also tried the Rhapsodio SG 2.98 with these IEMs, but the SilverFi effect was more profound. It sounds a bit more natural on these IEMs (I still love the 2.98 on other IEMs) where as I always had a minor complaint that the S-EM9 were a bit clinical. Anyway, what a unique cable.

Now, ergonomics leave a bit to be desired for me. I have since made a few modifications to the cable to make it fit my ears a little better (well, rather had someone I trust very much do this for me) and now I really love both the ergonomics and sound of the cable.

 

-Collin-


----------



## SeeSax

And here's a photo of the slightly modified cable: 

 

It fits my ears much better now and to the best of my ability I cannot hear any difference in sound. 

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

SeeSax said:


> And here's a photo of the slightly modified cable:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you re-braid the cable and replace the pre-shaped ear bend?


----------



## SeeSax

Deezel177 said:


> Did you re-braid the cable and replace the pre-shaped ear bend?



No re-braiding of the cable was done, just replaced the connectors and new heat shrink with a different shaped bend. 

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

SeeSax said:


> No re-braiding of the cable was done, just replaced the connectors and new heat shrink with a different shaped bend.
> 
> -Collin-



Good call, every image of the original I've seen looks like an ergonomic nightmare


----------



## Wyville

Posted some impressions of the Ares II in the Effect Audio thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-34#post-13638029


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> Posted some impressions of the Ares II in the Effect Audio thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-34#post-13638029



Great impressions! I believe the Y-split on your cable is the old EA splitter, which, to be fair, is significantly bulkier than their current iteration. Here's the difference between the Y-split on my Ares II+ and the one on my Lionheart:

 

P.S. I am very, *very*, confident you'll *love* the H8.2


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Great impressions! I believe the Y-split on your cable is the old EA splitter, which, to be fair, is significantly bulkier than their current iteration. Here's the difference between the Y-split on my Ares II+ and the one on my Lionheart:


That does look quite a bit smaller. This is the first time that I have seen a cable like this, so it is all new to me.


Deezel177 said:


> P.S. I am very, *very*, confident you'll *love* the H8.2


Don't tempt me!


----------



## TylerJarvis

I was overwhelmed buy all the different cable types. This has helped really break them down. Thank you.


----------



## Sound Eq

is there a site where i can buy 2.5mm trrs ( balanced ) to 3.5mm trrs  ( Balanced ), besides double helix site which takes forever to get things shipped


----------



## jmills8

Sound Eq said:


> is there a site where i can buy 2.5mm trrs ( balanced ) to 3.5mm trrs  ( Balanced ), besides double helix site which takes forever to get things shipped


If you ordered it 4 months ago when you were looking for a great 2.5 cable you would already have it.


----------



## Sound Eq (Aug 7, 2017)

jmills8 said:


> If you ordered it 4 months ago when you were looking for a great 2.5 cable you would already have it.


i do not need a cable just plug converter, I ordered two great cables from a company called original cables, but since i changed daps now I need a 2.5mm trrs to 3.5mm trrs converter. Its good to have cowon plenue s back


----------



## tim0chan

Sound Eq said:


> i do not need a cable just plug converter, I ordered two great cables from a company called original cables, but since i changed daps now I need a 2.5mm trrs to 3.5mm trrs converter. Its good to have cowon plenue s back


Effect audio can sort u out


----------



## fuhransahis

Sound Eq said:


> i do not need a cable just plug converter, I ordered two great cables from a company called original cables, but since i changed daps now I need a 2.5mm trrs to 3.5mm trrs converter. Its good to have cowon plenue s back


https://www.etsy.com/listing/401105731/impact-audio-cables-ultra-mini-adapter?ref=shop_home_active_7

He usually ships same or next day.


----------



## Sound Eq

fuhransahis said:


> https://www.etsy.com/listing/401105731/impact-audio-cables-ultra-mini-adapter?ref=shop_home_active_7
> 
> He usually ships same or next day.



are those of good quality


----------



## fuhransahis

Sound Eq said:


> are those of good quality


I have the 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm SE Eidolic adapter and it's great. If there's any defect or issue, he's responsive and will definitely help you out.


----------



## twister6

Sound Eq said:


> are those of good quality



Effect Audio ultrashort 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRS right-angled adaptor (only $50) is what I use daily, HERE.


----------



## EffectAudio

twister6 said:


> Effect Audio ultrashort 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRS right-angled adaptor (only $50) is what I use daily, HERE.



And here's the perfect excuse for us to have beer this coming NYC Canjam 

-Eric


----------



## Wyville (Aug 17, 2017)

Seems to be something that ought to go in this thread as well.


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> Seems to be something that ought to go in this thread as well.


Clench our wallets tight and kiss the internet goodbye or get those puppies ready for the bribe of the century!!


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> Seems to be something that ought to go in this thread as well.


@effect audio i assume auditions will be available soon at the lab or at ms ?


----------



## Wyville

tim0chan said:


> Clench our wallets tight and kiss the internet goodbye or get those puppies ready for the bribe of the century!!


First I saw the Leonidas 8-wire and now this. I'm running out of places to sit!


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> First I saw the Leonidas 8-wire and now this. I'm running out of places to sit!


the yard seems fine


----------



## Wyville

tim0chan said:


> the yard seems fine


You mean for me to sit in?


----------



## flinkenick (Aug 17, 2017)

After listening to stock cables for the better part of the last 6 months, it just takes one minute of listening to something special to remind me how dearly I love cables.. Effect Audio's answer to the top-tier segment is nothing short of spectacular.


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> You mean for me to sit in?


Yep Anything to squeeze that last bit out of our music


----------



## tim0chan

flinkenick said:


> After listening to stock cables for the better part of the last 6 months, it just takes one minute of listening to something special to remind me how dearly I love cables.. Effect Audio's answer to the top-tier segment is nothing short of spectacular.


Thor silver ii+ ?


----------



## ezekiel77

tim0chan said:


> Thor silver ii+ ?


I think he might have first dibs on the new flagship.


----------



## Wyville

ezekiel77 said:


> I think he might have first dibs on the new flagship.


I'm not jealous at all... ... [muffled profanities] 

Looks nice though, can't wait!


----------



## tim0chan

flinkenick said:


> After listening to stock cables for the better part of the last 6 months, it just takes one minute of listening to something special to remind me how dearly I love cables.. Effect Audio's answer to the top-tier segment is nothing short of spectacular.


Looks like silver / silver plated copper, maybe silver alloy....
The wait and my non-exisistent wallet is gonna kill me


----------



## flinkenick

tim0chan said:


> Looks like silver / silver plated copper, maybe silver alloy....
> The wait and my non-exisistent wallet is gonna kill me


I'll wait for Eric to give the deets. But yeah non-existing wallets generally seem to counter happiness on this forum hehe.


----------



## tim0chan

flinkenick said:


> I'll wait for Eric to give the deets. But yeah non-existing wallets generally seem to counter happiness on this forum hehe.


But holy crap does it look nice!!!
Luckily i can listen to it as much as i like at ms. Hallelujah for the audio scene in singapore. (not so much the prices)


----------



## ezekiel77

There's no suspense since I won't be able to afford it anyway lol. I'm known to go crazy with transducers and leave the scraps for cables.


----------



## Wyville

flinkenick said:


> I'll wait for Eric to give the deets.


Really nice to see you got this opportunity! But then again, you did EArn (yes, capital EA, pardon the pun) that through bloody hard work! 


flinkenick said:


> But yeah non-existing wallets generally seem to counter happiness on this forum hehe.


Once I will have the Ares II my gear will be complete and I will be perfectly happy... for the time being... I hope.


----------



## tim0chan

ezekiel77 said:


> There's no suspense since I won't be able to afford it anyway lol. I'm known to go crazy with transducers and leave the scraps for cables.


What abt the almighty source?
If you're in singapore do check out sgaudiohive for more affordable cables that sound pretty good! 
Pm for link if needed


----------



## LondonGecko (Aug 17, 2017)

Well after some serious procrastination, I finally ordered an Atlas Zeno IEM cable - kicking myself for not upgrading the cable sooner.

ETA - went for the 2.5mm balanced output to match up with the AK70 and the Shure SE535s. Incredible levels of detail (noticed hi-hats on the offbeat in a song I've listened to for 20 years) and the soundstage is enormous in comparison. Much less hiss too.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

LondonGecko said:


> Well after some serious procrastination, I finally ordered an Atlas Zeno IEM cable - kicking myself for not upgrading the cable sooner.
> 
> ETA - went for the 2.5mm balanced output to match up with the AK70 and the Shure SE535s. Incredible levels of detail (noticed hi-hats on the offbeat in a song I've listened to for 20 years) and the soundstage is enormous in comparison. Much less hiss too.



Nice choice, it's the cable I use with my Inearz P350's, cable is about as much as the CIEM but oh well  sounds amazing

My Forza Audioworks hybrid cable is on my HiFiMan RE2000 as it doesn't take away much of the warm lush euphoric sound, yet adds a little detail and presence up top.

Now which cable should I use with 64 Audio U6 and which with Noble Sage:

Toxic Viper (SPC, home made)
Effect Ares II

Hum... once I've done the reviews of the IEM's I'll match up cables for them


----------



## LondonGecko

Yeah, but the IEM's are a sunk cost so you can forget about that, right? 

Any suggestions on a cheaper (upto £100 cable) to go with my 425s that I use in the gym? Tried the new Fiio RC-MMCXB and it was hugely disappointing verses the standard cable.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

LondonGecko said:


> Yeah, but the IEM's are a sunk cost so you can forget about that, right?
> 
> Any suggestions on a cheaper (upto £100 cable) to go with my 425s that I use in the gym? Tried the new Fiio RC-MMCXB and it was hugely disappointing verses the standard cable.



For gym use just get a cheap one from Lunashops:
http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=5005

or something like this:
http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=100


----------



## ezekiel77 (Aug 17, 2017)

tim0chan said:


> What abt the almighty source?
> If you're in singapore do check out sgaudiohive for more affordable cables that sound pretty good!
> Pm for link if needed



No upgrade bug for my DAPs yet, hopefully. The SP1000 sounds insanely good with a matching insane price tag. 
Sgaudio hive are good people! They assisted me in IEM repair once. Great guys. I might have to prod around for their cable choices.

*edit: but as it is I already have too many cables!


----------



## Deezel177 (Aug 19, 2017)

@Wyville Might wanna hold off on that Ares II purchase, bud 

EDIT: By the way, to answer to question at the bottom, it's listed at SGD 299 on MS's website


----------



## deafdoorknob

flinkenick said:


> Sorry man, the pins of the no 5 got bent when I was travelling so I had to ship it back again. It's been more away than in my keeping unfortunately.
> 
> As a rough guide for the three cables, HanSound Audio Zen, PW no 5, and Ares II, I would say the following:
> Ares II and no 5 sound cleaner than Zen, as a result of a slight dip in the upper bass. Zen on the other hand sounds a bit warmer and smoother, a slightly thicker sound so to speak. Ares II has great transparency, and a slightly brighter and leaner sound. It offers the best separation and detail, and pairs excellently with warm or thick sounding iems, or if you just prioritise technical performance. No 5 shares some similarities with Ares II, like good top-end extension and a clean sound. It sounds only slightly warm, but it has a good timbre. Vocals sound clear, and have nice size and balance throughout the vocal range. The treble is slightly attenuated but articulate, with a modest touch of sparkle.



been using both the no5* and the Ares II for the past few months, they deviate from each other in minor but audible ways, i would say that the 5 is a hint warmer and Ares 2 is a little better in technicalities. 

physically, the no5 is thicker cable, approx 24 awg? as it is between the 26 awg ares 2 and and the 22 awg ares 2+, 5's weave dresses better than the ares 2 and has zero shape retention while a2 looks a little more less tidy if you coil/uncoil them often. 

5 has better mmcx connectors, but their 3.5 connector feels "cheap" and lightweight compared to a2. 

*after chatting with PW, there are 2 voicing for the no5, the international version which has a metal splitter and the japanese version which has a wood splitter, he told me that the international version is warmer and the J version has better microdetails and more technical sounding. however, he said he can't sell the no 5 J version to ppl directly. The no 5J is available at e-earphone and also as part of the japanese version of the oriolus mk2.

He also said the that the No5J sounds closer to his Ultra Copper cable, which he sees as his "technical" copper cable.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> @Wyville Might wanna hold off on that Ares II purchase, bud
> 
> EDIT: By the way, to answer to question at the bottom, it's listed at SGD 299 on MS's website


Oh great, now I'm curious again. But too late, the Ares II is already on order! 

Not sure though if I would have done that anyway, I think I would have sooner stepped up to an Ares II in 8-wire.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> Oh great, now I'm curious again. But too late, the Ares II is already on order!
> 
> Not sure though if I would have done that anyway, I think I would have sooner stepped up to an Ares II in 8-wire.



Nice! Enjoy the cable man! I'll probably be testing it out next month with impressions to follow; to further pique your curiosity a bit  Besides, if another puppy ever finds its way to you, all you have to do is send it in for a retermination upgrade


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Nice! Enjoy the cable man! I'll probably be testing it out next month with impressions to follow; to further pique your curiosity a bit


Thanks! It will be a long wait, I guess around 3 weeks, but it will be worth it. The synergy with my Ei.3 and balanced out of the AK70 was brilliant! Look forward to reading your impressions!


Deezel177 said:


> Besides, if another puppy ever finds its way to you, all you have to do is send it in for a retermination upgrade


For now I am done with upgrading, the Ares II was the last element to complete my current setup exactly as I wanted it. Now my attention needs to be on upgrading our lives and escaping London. After that I will consider getting a "home" setup. Something less portable and aimed at TOTL sound. Perhaps WM1A, Maestro V2 and Lionheart (if that would be a good match). We'll see!


----------



## Deezel177

@Ultrainferno AKA Lieven of Headfonia just released a first-look video at the new Effect Audio flagship, the Horus!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Deezel177 said:


> @Ultrainferno AKA Lieven of Headfonia just released a first-look video at the new Effect Audio flagship, the Horus!



The first of many more videos, if people like them that is 
Don't forget to subscribe


----------



## blazinblazin

I would like to know how much better it is to Leonidas.


----------



## Wyville

Ultrainferno said:


> The first of many more videos, if people like them that is
> Don't forget to subscribe


Nice to see another teaser and learn the name of the new cable!

"_It is like an improved version of Leonidas._ " 
If I remember correctly, I read in your Canjam London blog that you were considering an upgrade to Leonidas 8-wire. Is that still the case?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Wyville said:


> Nice to see another teaser and learn the name of the new cable!
> 
> "_It is like an improved version of Leonidas._ "
> If I remember correctly, I read in your Canjam London blog that you were considering an upgrade to Leonidas 8-wire. Is that still the case?



That still is the case indeed, but it's an 8-wire so it will be less handy when on the go. Horus will come in nicely there


----------



## chaiyuta

In the above youtube clip, It was stated that Horus is multi-sized strand GPS. But Leonidas, Mars, Heracles and Freyja are multi-sized strand GPS, aren't they?


----------



## Deezel177

chaiyuta said:


> In the above youtube clip, It was stated that Horus is multi-sized strand GPS. But Leonidas, Mars, Heracles and Freyja are multi-sized strand GPS, aren't they?



The Leonidas is a gold-and-silver hybrid but within the wires themselves, the Heracles is a GPS-and-pure-silver hybrid, and the Freyja is a GPC-and-SPC hybrid. The Mars is indeed a GPS, and I'm sure the Horus, as the new EA flagship succeeding the Mars, is meant to be an improved version of the Mars whilst retaining a similar configuration.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Deezel177 : All of them are "multi-sized strand" right? or only Mars?


----------



## Deezel177

chaiyuta said:


> @Deezel177 : All of them are "multi-sized strand" right? or only Mars?



Every cable made by Effect Audio after the Ares II is a muti-sized strand design. In fact, I don't think the Mars is a multi-sized strand design; it's not advertised as such on their website.


----------



## Wyville

Ultrainferno said:


> That still is the case indeed, but it's an 8-wire so it will be less handy when on the go. Horus will come in nicely there


The luxury of choice!  Enjoy and I look forward to the review!


----------



## ccheney

Has anyone paired the U18 with the 1960 4 wire? Or if anyone has other personal favorite pairings with the U18


----------



## Wyville (Aug 29, 2017)

ccheney said:


> Has anyone paired the U18 with the 1960 4 wire? Or if anyone has other personal favorite pairings with the U18


If I remember correctly @Deezel177 mentioned something about the U18 with the 4-wire. His comment was along the lines of... "_Resolution and holographic imaging for dayzzzzzz..._" 

I also believe @twister6 might have the U18, 2-wire and 4-wire in his enviable collection, as well as @flinkenick with the A18, 2-wire and 4-wire. *sigh*


----------



## Deezel177

ccheney said:


> Has anyone paired the U18 with the 1960 4 wire? Or if anyone has other personal favorite pairings with the U18





Wyville said:


> If I remember correctly @Deezel177 mentioned something about the U18 with the 4-wire. His comment was along the lines of... "_Resolution and holographic imaging for dayzzzzzz..._"
> 
> I also believe @twister6 might have the U18, 2-wire and 4-wire in his enviable collection, as well as @flinkenick with the A18, 2-wire and 4-wire. *sigh*



I fully stand by that quote  I auditioned the U18 + 1960s 4-wire in an odd scenario, where I used carrot modules instead of the M15/M20's. The resulting sound gave the U18 a lot more depth in the soundstage, while the U18's already-super-wide soundstage didn't really gain that much IMO. The midrange also gained body, richness and, yet, transparency all at the same time. Sub-bass rumble became less fast-and-edgy and more guttural and visceral, and the mid-bass gained warmth and bloom. I'd say the mid-bass was inches away from bleeding into the mids, but fortunately a mere scent of warmth is all it gave it. The upper-mid sparkle (that was attenuated by the carrot module) was returned by the cable, adding air, improving separation and imaging, and maximising the treble's already-spectacular extension. It's a monster of a pairing with a monster of a price tag, but it was a great listen, if I may say so myself


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> I fully stand by that quote  I auditioned the U18 + 1960s 4-wire in an odd scenario, where I used carrot modules instead of the M15/M20's. The resulting sound gave the U18 a lot more depth in the soundstage, while the U18's already-super-wide soundstage didn't really gain that much IMO. The midrange also gained body, richness and, yet, transparency all at the same time. Sub-bass rumble became less fast-and-edgy and more guttural and visceral, and the mid-bass gained warmth and bloom. I'd say the mid-bass was inches away from bleeding into the mids, but fortunately a mere scent of warmth is all it gave it. The upper-mid sparkle (that was attenuated by the carrot module) was returned by the cable, adding air, improving separation and imaging, and maximising the treble's already-spectacular extension. It's a monster of a pairing with a monster of a price tag, but it was a great listen, if I may say so myself


Oh... my... want...


----------



## Kerouac (Aug 29, 2017)

Wyville said:


> Oh... my... want...



Why not? It's only a $5K combination afterall 





_(Just buy and live in a tent when you move countries...houses are overrated anyway_)


----------



## twister6

ccheney said:


> Has anyone paired the U18 with the 1960 4 wire? Or if anyone has other personal favorite pairings with the U18



Scroll down to cable section of my U18 review: https://twister6.com/2017/06/25/64-audio-u18-tzar/

Later, after the review, i received Lionheart for testing, and that EA cable has been permanently attached to U18  Review, here https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/


----------



## Wyville (Aug 29, 2017)

twister6 said:


> Later, after the review, i received Lionheart for testing, and that EA cable has been permanently attached to U18  Review, here https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/


Reading about the different pairings, it seems like Lionheart is a pretty good cable for the U12 as well. I am really beginning to think that the U12 would suit me perfectly, perhaps better than the Maestro V2 (despite considering I listen to a lot of classical music).

This, and what @seamon explained about the A12 and Leonidas pairing, I think I really need to start saving up!


----------



## PinkyPowers

twister6 said:


> Scroll down to cable section of my U18 review: https://twister6.com/2017/06/25/64-audio-u18-tzar/
> 
> Later, after the review, i received Lionheart for testing, and that EA cable has been permanently attached to U18  Review, here https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/



I have Thor II coming. I look forward to seeing what IEMs work best with it.


----------



## fuhransahis (Aug 29, 2017)

Got a DHC Symbiote v3 on its way to use with Vega and DX200 w/AMP 3  Think it should be a great pairing... I think.


----------



## Deezel177

twister6 said:


> Scroll down to cable section of my U18 review: https://twister6.com/2017/06/25/64-audio-u18-tzar/
> 
> Later, after the review, i received Lionheart for testing, and that EA cable has been permanently attached to U18  Review, here https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/



Hmm... I have a Lionheart. Are you suggesting I get myself an A18 to complement my cable?


----------



## Wyville

PinkyPowers said:


> I have Thor II coming. I look forward to seeing what IEMs work best with it.


Very interesting! I have been curious about three Effect Audio cables: Ares II, which I reviewed and have my own on the way; Eros II because it is a copper/silver hybrid; Thor II because Effect Audio describe it as "_not your usual Pure Silver cable_". Considering that Ares II was "_a far cry from your usual Copper Cables_", I am very curious to see what Thor II is like.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Hmm... I have a Lionheart. Are you suggesting I get myself an A18 to complement my cable?


Yes, go for it!


----------



## Kerouac

Deezel177 said:


> Hmm... I have a Lionheart. Are you suggesting I get myself an A18 to complement my cable?





Wyville said:


> Yes, go for it!


If you already have the engine...why not get the rest of the Ferrari as well? 



Wyville said:


> Very interesting! I have been curious about three Effect Audio cables: Ares II, which I reviewed and have my own on the way; Eros II because it is a copper/silver hybrid; Thor II because Effect Audio describe it as "_not your usual Pure Silver cable_". Considering that Ares II was "_a far cry from your usual Copper Cables_", I am very curious to see what Thor II is like.


Sometimes cables can surprise you with their signature. I usually have a (soft tonality, silver) RSD Luna cable on my brighter AR6, while the (very clear sounding, copper) YY Pro Tucana matches my H8.2 very well.
Based on material only I would not have expected that beforehand.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> Very interesting! I have been curious about three Effect Audio cables: Ares II, which I reviewed and have my own on the way; Eros II because it is a copper/silver hybrid; Thor II because Effect Audio describe it as "_not your usual Pure Silver cable_". Considering that Ares II was "_a far cry from your usual Copper Cables_", I am very curious to see what Thor II is like.



The Thor Silver II is more like a silver cable than the Ares II is like a copper cable; it's not as out-there and unique as the Ares II, though it is pretty unique nonetheless. Compared to the stereotypical "silver sound", the Thor II is more lush, and smooth. It definitely boosts the upper midrange and treble air, adding a hint of brightness up top especially, but it maintains a natural presentation throughout, and I think it's because of how it presents its lower midrange. The Thor II's lower midrange has a balance between transparency and warmth that spreads into the middle midrange, up until it hits the sparkle region right above it. Its bass response is also definitely not super-tight-and-controlled, rather somewhat rich and lush, but not accentuated or over-emphasised. There is a degree of control there, but not to the level of, say, the DHC Symbiote SP V3 (which also somewhat attenuates the bass as a side-effect); there is a looseness and a richness that puts it somewhere between the typical "copper" bass and the typical "silver" bass. The Thor II also has the Effect Audio house sound (which exists throughout all of their products, though in varying degrees) which sounds like applying a mastering compressor to the song, where individual tracks start to smear together to aid in cohesion, image stability, and boost musicality as a result. Though, IMO, this effect slightly hurts separation compared to ultra-TOTL cables like the 1960s, for example.


----------



## Wyville (Aug 29, 2017)

Kerouac said:


> Sometimes cables can surprise you with their signature. I usually have a (soft tonality, silver) RSD Luna cable on my brighter AR6, while the (very clear sounding, copper) YY Pro Tucana matches my H8.2 very well.
> Based on material only I would not have expected that beforehand.


Yeah, I had the same with the Ares II. Although it sort of went both ways because I was afraid the Ares II might hurt the smooth signature of the Ei.3 and was surprised to find that the smoothness became a higher quality one, from wooly to liquid. It's a very unique cable and I hope you get a chance to try it soon!


Deezel177 said:


> The Thor Silver II is more like a silver cable than the Ares II is like a copper cable; it's not as out-there and unique as the Ares II, though it is pretty unique nonetheless. Compared to the stereotypical "silver sound", the Thor II is more lush, and smooth. It definitely boosts the upper midrange and treble air, adding a hint of brightness up top especially, but it maintains a natural presentation throughout, and I think it's because of how it presents its lower midrange. The Thor II's lower midrange has a balance between transparency and warmth that spreads into the middle midrange, up until it hits the sparkle region right above it. Its bass response is also definitely not super-tight-and-controlled, rather somewhat rich and lush, but not accentuated or over-emphasised. There is a degree of control there, but not to the level of, say, the DHC Symbiote SP V3 (which also somewhat attenuates the bass as a side-effect); there is a looseness and a richness that puts it somewhere between the typical "copper" bass and the typical "silver" bass. The Thor II also has the Effect Audio house sound (which exists throughout all of their products, though in varying degrees) which sounds like applying a mastering compressor to the song, where individual tracks start to smear together to aid in cohesion, image stability, and boost musicality as a result. Though, IMO, this effect slightly hurts separation compared to ultra-TOTL cables like the 1960s, for example.


Very interesting! I had not yet realised that Effect Audio had something like a 'house sound', but it does explain why I gravitated towards them because I rate cohesion and musicality very highly. When I listen to music the sound must be something that draws me in. I need that because that is exactly what gives me the health benefits I gain from my music therapy. That is also why smoothness is so essential. The music must flow over me, immersing me in a warm, smooth blanket of sound. That stabilises the chaotic activity in my brain, improves my concentration and makes me feel a lot calmer and happier.

I've had a crap day today and yet an hour of Mozart's Requiem from my AK70 with Ei.3 and the world seems like a much better place. Of course when I look outside and see London I fall back into dispair again, but you can't win them all!


----------



## ezekiel77

Wyville said:


> Reading about the different pairings, it seems like Lionheart is a pretty good cable for the U12 as well. I am really beginning to think that the U12 would suit me perfectly, perhaps better than the Maestro V2 (despite considering I listen to a lot of classical music).
> 
> This, and what @seamon explained about the A12 and Leonidas pairing, I think I really need to start saving up!


Yes yes, the A12 is veliveligood.
Great for a relaxed and musical listen.
I pair mine with the ALO ref 8, also veliveligood.


----------



## EagleWings (Aug 30, 2017)

Wyville said:


> Reading about the different pairings, it seems like Lionheart is a pretty good cable for the U12 as well. I am really beginning to think that the U12 would suit me perfectly, perhaps better than the Maestro V2 (despite considering I listen to a lot of classical music).
> 
> This, and what @seamon explained about the A12 and Leonidas pairing, I think I really need to start saving up!



Leo would definitely help add some body and presence to the laid-back mid-range and should also improve its transparency. But Leo has a pretty strong sub-bass presence. So pairing the U12 with the Leo, might make the IEM darker. Just a heads-up.

I am sorry if I pushed you back to square one.

Ooh, as Ezekiel stated earlier, Ref8 seems to be one of the preferred pairings with the U12. I think Twister6 and Pinky liked that particular pairing too.


----------



## Wyville

EagleWings said:


> Leo would definitely help add some body and presence to the laid-back mid-range and should also improve its transparency. But Leo has a pretty strong sub-bass presence. So pairing the U12 with the Leo, might make the IEM darker. Just a heads-up.
> 
> I am sorry if I pushed you back to square one.
> 
> Ooh, as Ezekiel stated earlier, Ref8 seems to be one of the preferred pairings with the U12. I think Twister6 and Pinky liked that particular pairing too.


No worries, I am still learning and every bit of information is welcome! If I remember correctly Ref8 has memory wire, so that is not an option for me. 

Just heard from my audiologist that a demo UE18+ Pro is on the way and I will be trying out the H8.2 as well, hopefully that will give me a good reference so I can better understand the shootout reviews and make a more informed decision on what I would like in terms of sound. Then I can plan and plot much better! [rubs hands in anticipation]


----------



## 13candles (Aug 30, 2017)

Wyville said:


> No worries, I am still learning and every bit of information is welcome! If I remember correctly Ref8 has memory wire, so that is not an option for me.
> 
> Just heard from my audiologist that a demo UE18+ Pro is on the way and I will be trying out the H8.2 as well, hopefully that will give me a good reference so I can better understand the shootout reviews and make a more informed decision on what I would like in terms of sound. Then I can plan and plot much better! [rubs hands in anticipation]



I am really excited that you'll be trying those two monitors; especially the UE18+.

I really liked the UE when i tried it on my 2nd audition and will gladly take it over both the VE8 and the W900 which i initially liked ALOT. The coherency and the vocals on the 18+ to me personally, is up there with the very best.

I remember the day when i was trying the VE8 for the third time in a different store and just trying to verify what ive heard on the previous 2 occasions just so i know i won't be leaving no stone unturned... And Indeed, i found myself asking for the UE18 to try again and it felt just right....

Do take your time and ask, read and audition over and over again... And you'll know when you find the right one  Just remember not to allow any salesperson to pressure you into buying anything.

Cheers buddy!

P.S. oh and btw, just incase you're wondering if i decided and bought the UE, lets just say i went on another blind date and picked her instead.....


----------



## Kerouac (Aug 30, 2017)

Wyville said:


> No worries, I am still learning and every bit of information is welcome! If I remember correctly Ref8 has memory wire, so that is not an option for me.
> 
> Just heard from my audiologist that a demo UE18+ Pro is on the way and I will be trying out the H8.2 as well, hopefully that will give me a good reference so I can better understand the shootout reviews and make a more informed decision on what I would like in terms of sound. Then I can plan and plot much better! [rubs hands in anticipation]


It would be nice when your new Ares II cable arrives before that auditioning, so you can also check the synergy with that one.
But beware: if you like them (and I'm afraid that you will), they will probably hunt you in your dreams (while your wife dreams of puppies) after that auditioning 

I'm also very curious (just like @13candles above) which one of these 2 iems you will like the best, and why


----------



## PinkyPowers (Aug 30, 2017)

EA Thor II arrived today!

It's crazy smooth, with none of that brittleness Silver can sometimes give. It does not sound bright. At all. It does sound extra clear and vivid, and maybe some strangely awesome depth. Coming from the plusSound X-Series GPC, tia Fourté has lost a little bass. So I'm not sure if Thor II is the _BEST _pairing for it. But it's sure as hell not bad! I'm going to put some hours on it tomorrow at work. See what I think then. 

I really want to try it out on Encore and Spartan!


----------



## Wyville

13candles said:


> I am really excited that you'll be trying those two monitors; especially the UE18+.
> 
> I really liked the UE when i tried it on my 2nd audition and will gladly take it over both the VE8 and the W900 which i initially liked ALOT. The coherency and the vocals on the 18+ to me personally, is up there with the very best.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Yes, I am really looking forward to trying out both, but especially the UE18+ because Nic explained them as sounding very realistic, which is one of my top criteria for TOTL IEMs. Gisele, my wonderful audiologist, has the UE18+ coming over from a colleague just so I can try them. She is an audiophile's dream audiologist! And she won't pressure me to buy anything, I think my brain will take care of that part... 
_"You need this in your life." "Your life will be complete."
"You need this in your life." "Your life will be complete."
"You need this in your life." "Your life will be complete."
"You need this in your life." "Your life will be complete."
"You need this in your life." "Your life will be complete."_



Kerouac said:


> It would be nice when your new Ares II cable arrives before that auditioning, so you can also check the synergy with that one.
> But beware: if you like them (and I'm afraid that you will), they will probably hunt you in your dreams (while your wife dreams of puppies) after that auditioning
> 
> I'm also very curious (just like @13candles above) which one of these 2 iems you will like the best, and why


Yes, I thought about that. It would be really nice to try the H8.2 with the Ares II and perhaps give Gisele a chance to hear the difference as well, as I think a lot of her customers would be interested in custom cables (for the looks as well as the sound). Unfortunately, I fear the timing will not work out quite right. I estimated 3 weeks for shipping and Effect Audio was down a few of their production staff because of bad weather, so it might take a little longer than usual. But I will tip Gisele off about Effect Audio for the upcoming Indulgence Show. 

A shame, but on the other hand I will be able to focus better on the stock sound and not get distracted too much. Last time I had it all planned out with a specially prepared playlist and as soon as I had the Ei.3 in my ears that plan went out the door and I had to listen to EVERYTHING!


----------



## EffectAudio

Wyville said:


> Unfortunately, I fear the timing will not work out quite right. I estimated 3 weeks for shipping and Effect Audio was down a few of their production staff because of bad weather, so it might take a little longer than usual. But I will tip Gisele off about Effect Audio for the upcoming Indulgence Show.



I made a note to my guys to have it done and ship out ASAP while im out, It should reach you on time; if not soon  - Check your inbox, i'll send you the tracker 

-Eric


----------



## Wyville

EffectAudio said:


> I made a note to my guys to have it done and ship out ASAP while im out, It should reach you on time; if not soon  - Check your inbox, i'll send you the tracker
> 
> -Eric


Thanks Eric! What a wonderful surprise! 

Should be good then. I will take it along when I see Gisele (Gisele Flower of Aid2Hearing), she will love the Ares II!

Send my thanks to everyone for a stellar job!


----------



## PinkyPowers (Aug 31, 2017)

Thor II sure makes for a nice setup. Adds a good bit of warmth to the treble.


----------



## kubig123

PinkyPowers said:


> Thor II sure makes for a nice setup. Adds a good bit of warmth to the treble.


I'm interested to know how they pair with the KE.

Beautiful cable!


----------



## PinkyPowers

kubig123 said:


> I'm interested to know how they pair with the KE.
> 
> Beautiful cable!



Encore with Thor II is amazing! Listening now. 

If you want to smooth out the treble and add warmth WITHOUT adding bass or losing clarity, Thor II is the cable for you. 

It makes my tia Fourté sound less like the HD800 and more like my LCD-2.2F. It takes on a liquidy smoothness and is all around less bright in the treble.

This is a very unusual Silver cable. Effect Audio did not lie.


----------



## deafdoorknob

i think we may have reached "peak cable". At tokyo's e-earphone, 3m runs of Kimber's headphone cables are the highest priced items listed, comfortably superceeding hifiman's susvara by a comfortable margin SMH...

fyi, all the "no preview image" entries are kimbers... SMH ... 

as a cable believer i get why others shake their heads in disbelief.


----------



## flinkenick

I posted PW no 5. It's a pretty basic review though 

http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audio-no-5/


----------



## deafdoorknob

flinkenick said:


> I posted PW no 5. It's a pretty basic review though
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audio-no-5/



that tallied with my experience, i had both the ares II and the no. 5, i preferred the sound of the ares II for most of my iems (andro, ibasso, fitear parterre via pwa's fitear/mmcx adapter) tho for andros it's less clear cut and dependent on genres. 

the cables themselves, pwa drapes better but effect has better 3.5mm connectors, effect also has better finishing from the 3D shaped heat shrink ear guides; but the pwa has better mmcx connectors which are tight and not prone to swivel. 

if there is a hybrid of the two lol...


----------



## Deezel177

deafdoorknob said:


> that tallied with my experience, i had both the ares II and the no. 5, i preferred the sound of the ares II for most of my iems (andro, ibasso, fitear parterre via pwa's fitear/mmcx adapter) tho for andros it's less clear cut and dependent on genres.
> 
> the cables themselves, pwa drapes better but effect has better 3.5mm connectors, effect also has better finishing from the 3D shaped heat shrink ear guides; but the pwa has better mmcx connectors which are tight and not prone to swivel.
> 
> if there is a hybrid of the two lol...



When it comes to the ergonomics of the heat shrink, connectors, Y-split, etc., you can always get a someone reputable like SGAudioHive or Music Sanctuary to do a retermination with parts of your choosing.


----------



## deafdoorknob

Deezel177 said:


> When it comes to the ergonomics of the heat shrink, connectors, Y-split, etc., you can always get a someone reputable like SGAudioHive or Music Sanctuary to do a retermination with parts of your choosing.



thanks for the tip, i didn't realise that as i got them at a brick n mortar store here in hk


----------



## Blommen

Hey guys, anyone here know a good place to get cables re-terminated? Preferably in europe.


----------



## rtjoa

flinkenick said:


> I posted PW no 5. It's a pretty basic review though
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audio-no-5/


Great review as always 
Here is a picture of 8 wire version.


----------



## rtjoa

In case if someone needs 4.4mm female adapter, here are pictures of 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter from David OC Studio Taiwan:
(the 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter is from Ebay)

 

Pictures of OC Studio cables - OCAuX and Orpheus MK5:
(The MK5 copper is a free cable )


----------



## kubig123

rtjoa said:


> In case if someone needs 4.4mm female adapter, here are pictures of 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter from David OC Studio Taiwan:
> (the 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter is from Ebay)
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting,
Do you have the eBay link?


----------



## rtjoa

kubig123 said:


> Interesting,
> Do you have the eBay link?


2.5mm to 3.5mm Adapter
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/IRIVER-A...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

OC Studio Cables 
http://www.originalcable.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/OriginalCableStudio/


----------



## kubig123

rtjoa said:


> 2.5mm to 3.5mm Adapter
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/IRIVER-A-K-BALANCE-2-5mm-PLUG-TO-3-5mm-PLUG-Rhodium-Plated-3-5MM-PLUG/291786119684?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> OC Studio Cables
> http://www.originalcable.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/OriginalCableStudio/



Thanks!


----------



## Decreate

flinkenick said:


> I posted PW no 5. It's a pretty basic review though
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/pw-audio-no-5/


Nice review, how is the sound when paired up with the Tia Fourte when compared with the 4wire 1960?


----------



## flinkenick (Sep 3, 2017)

Decreate said:


> Nice review, how is the sound when paired up with the Tia Fourte when compared with the 4wire 1960?


Thanks man, but please keep in mind I only listened to Fourte for 10 mins at a show so I can't really help you. That being said, I think 1960 4-wire might be too bright, as both the cable and iem have a revealing signature. 1960 2-wire might be the better pairing. But it would be better to get Alex' opinion on the matter, as he has all of these.


----------



## Decreate

flinkenick said:


> Thanks man, but please keep in mind I only listened to Fourte for 10 mins at a show so I can't really help you. That being said, I think 1960 4-wire might be too bright, as both the cable and iem have a revealing signature. 1960 2-wire might be the better pairing. But it would be better to get Alex' opinion on the matter, as he has all of these.


Here's hoping that Alex would pop down to this thread some time soon.


----------



## twister6

Decreate said:


> Here's hoping that Alex would pop down to this thread some time soon.



Why? j/k.  Nic pretty much nailed it with his reply.

Fourte is a bit tricky and can go from tolerable to bright (depending on your ear sensitivity to high frequency peaks) really quickly.  The perfect example is with 1960 2wire vs 4wire.  2wire gives me a perfect frequency balance when it comes to lower treble, while 4wire pushes it over the edge, making it sound a bit too agressive for extended listening.  I prefer 2wire with TIA Fourte.


----------



## Decreate

twister6 said:


> Why? j/k.  Nic pretty much nailed it with his reply.
> 
> Fourte is a bit tricky and can go from tolerable to bright (depending on your ear sensitivity to high frequency peaks) really quickly.  The perfect example is with 1960 2wire vs 4wire.  2wire gives me a perfect frequency balance when it comes to lower treble, while 4wire pushes it over the edge, making it sound a bit too agressive for extended listening.  I prefer 2wire with TIA Fourte.


Thanks, but do you think the No.5 would be a good pairing for the Tia Fourte as well?


----------



## twister6

Decreate said:


> Thanks, but do you think the No.5 would be a good pairing for the Tia Fourte as well?



Just tested No5.  Pretty good pair up, but sound becomes a little smoother (in comparsion to 1960 2wire), with more mid-bass impact and a little less airiness which takes away some transparency.  The cable here can play a very interesting role of fine-tuning the sound, and I think many will enjoy pair up with No5.


----------



## Decreate

twister6 said:


> Just tested No5.  Pretty good pair up, but sound becomes a little smoother (in comparsion to 1960 2wire), with more mid-bass impact and a little less airiness which takes away some transparency.  The cable here can play a very interesting role of fine-tuning the sound, and I think many will enjoy pair up with No5.


Nice, hope I'll be able to find a shop to test the two cables out myself...hate to do another blind purchase which was pretty much what happened with the Tia Fourte...


----------



## EagleWings

twister6 said:


> Just tested No5.  Pretty good pair up, but sound becomes a little smoother (in comparsion to 1960 2wire), with more mid-bass impact and a little less airiness which takes away some transparency.  The cable here can play a very interesting role of fine-tuning the sound, and I think many will enjoy pair up with No5.



Does the No5 impact the soundstage of the Fourte? Soundstage doesn't seem to be No5's forte.


----------



## twister6

EagleWings said:


> Does the No5 impact the soundstage of the Fourte? Soundstage doesn't seem to be No5's forte.



Yes, forgot to mention, thanks for reminding me , sound stage is narrower with No5. Not by a whole lot, but it is. 

Btw, Fourte = four + forte


----------



## Wyville

twister6 said:


> Btw, Fourte = four + forte


That keeps confusing me because I have been looking at the Final Piano Forte series. 

BTW. Will you be doing a review of the UE18+ Pro ToGo soon? I am really curious about your opinion, as well as possible cable pairings.


----------



## twister6

Wyville said:


> That keeps confusing me because I have been looking at the Final Piano Forte series.
> 
> BTW. Will you be doing a review of the UE18+ Pro ToGo soon? I am really curious about your opinion, as well as possible cable pairings.



Will get to 18+ Pro ToGo in a near future, the review queue is still full and the workload at my job is even fuller   Btw, UE sent me their prototype gold plated cable, nice cable, but attenuates the mid-bass in comparison to stock OFC cable.


----------



## Wyville (Sep 4, 2017)

twister6 said:


> Will get to 18+ Pro ToGo in a near future, the review queue is still full and the workload at my job is even fuller   Btw, UE sent me their prototype gold plated cable, nice cable, but attenuates the mid-bass in comparison to stock OFC cable.


Looking forward to it, but do make sure to get some time for a breather as well!

I heard about that cable and was curious what UE had come up with. It will of course be a bit more difficult to try out various cables because of the connectors. That's a shame because I was curious if Lionheart would work well with the 18+. That pairing sits at a reasonable price-point and might be more realistic than the Maestro V2 and Leonidas (the dream pair  ). Then again, my budget appears to be moving ever skywards anyway.


----------



## noplsestar

rtjoa said:


> Great review as always
> Here is a picture of 8 wire version.



Nice pic!

Do (or did) you also have the 4wire? How do they differ in sound? Is the 8wire just "more" of the 4wire?


----------



## rtjoa

noplsestar said:


> Nice pic!
> 
> Do (or did) you also have the 4wire? How do they differ in sound? Is the 8wire just "more" of the 4wire?


Sorry I dont have the 4 wire.


----------



## bahaja (Sep 6, 2017)

Hello guys, is there any cable that can help to make bass decay faster? Budget is 500 SGD max


----------



## tim0chan

bahaja said:


> Hello guys, is there any cable that can help to make bass decay faster? Budget is 500 SGD max


Sgaudiohive mellifera spc litz 8braid


----------



## bahaja

tim0chan said:


> Sgaudiohive mellifera spc litz 8braid



Wow that thing looks great, and with that configuration it only costs 220 Sgd. Never thought I could get a 8-wire cable for that much.
From the review on quantum ears it sounds like what I'm looking for, hopefully it'll help with the slow bass of my upcoming mh334.

Their totl cable costs an additional 60 for the same config. Do you think it's worth it to spend the additional 60? Are there any other options from other brands that I should look into?


----------



## blazinblazin (Sep 6, 2017)

bahaja said:


> Wow that thing looks great, and with that configuration it only costs 220 Sgd. Never thought I could get a 8-wire cable for that much.
> From the review on quantum ears it sounds like what I'm looking for, hopefully it'll help with the slow bass of my upcoming mh334.
> 
> Their totl cable costs an additional 60 for the same config. Do you think it's worth it to spend the additional 60? Are there any other options from other brands that I should look into?



There's Effect Audio. But they are more expensive.

You can go to Music Sanctuary to try out cables before getting.

They carries a wide range of brands.

For sgaudiohive cables you can drop them an email to ask to go down their workshop to try.


----------



## tim0chan

bahaja said:


> Wow that thing looks great, and with that configuration it only costs 220 Sgd. Never thought I could get a 8-wire cable for that much.
> From the review on quantum ears it sounds like what I'm looking for, hopefully it'll help with the slow bass of my upcoming mh334.
> 
> Their totl cable costs an additional 60 for the same config. Do you think it's worth it to spend the additional 60? Are there any other options from other brands that I should look into?


Not really as it is different sounding


----------



## bahaja

blazinblazin said:


> There's Effect Audio. But they are more expensive.
> 
> You can go to Music Sanctuary to try out cables before getting.
> 
> ...



After reading some of the reviews for their sub 500 products, probably i'll have to try the Ares II cable
I might be going to Singapore next weekend so hopefully i can drop by and try both the Ares and the Mellifera spc cable.
If i don't, then probably i'll just be buying it blindly from Jaben over here



tim0chan said:


> Not really as it is different sounding



Ahh okay, hopefully i can try the Mellifera SPC next week


Thanks guys for your suggestion


----------



## Deezel177

bahaja said:


> After reading some of the reviews for their sub 500 products, probably i'll have to try the Ares II cable
> I might be going to Singapore next weekend so hopefully i can drop by and try both the Ares and the Mellifera spc cable.
> If i don't, then probably i'll just be buying it blindly from Jaben over here
> 
> ...



Jaben Singapore does not sell Effect Audio cables. If you wanna try them, you should go to Music Sanctuary; it's located in Far East Plaza, Orchard. They'll also have a bunch of cables from several different brands ready for you to try, and their staff is infinitely more knowledgeable than your typical audio retailer's employees; they'll readily recommend products to cater to your needs. You'll love it there, I can promise you that


----------



## bahaja

Deezel177 said:


> Jaben Singapore does not sell Effect Audio cables. If you wanna try them, you should go to Music Sanctuary; it's located in Far East Plaza, Orchard. They'll also have a bunch of cables from several different brands ready for you to try, and their staff is infinitely more knowledgeable than your typical audio retailer's employees; they'll readily recommend products to cater to your needs. You'll love it there, I can promise you that



I mean from Jaben Jakarta, IIRC they have some Effect Audio demo cables at STC Senayan
But i don't think they have the complete demo, especially the ones with fitear connector. Hopefully I'll get to go to Singapore next week, i think i might spend a lot of time there trying lots of cables


----------



## Deezel177

bahaja said:


> I mean from Jaben Jakarta, IIRC they have some Effect Audio demo cables at STC Senayan
> But i don't think they have the complete demo, especially the ones with fitear connector. Hopefully I'll get to go to Singapore next week, i think i might spend a lot of time there trying lots of cables



Ahh yes, then you are indeed correct  The last time I visited Jaben at STC was a couple weeks ago, and the only EA demos they had were the Eros (the first generation model), and the Mars, but none with FitEar connectors AFAIK. Music Sanctuary's demo cables are also mostly terminated in 2-pin connectors, but they have adapters from everything, including FitEar IEMs, so you'll be in good hands


----------



## bahaja

Deezel177 said:


> Ahh yes, then you are indeed correct  The last time I visited Jaben at STC was a couple weeks ago, and the only EA demos they had were the Eros (the first generation model), and the Mars, but none with FitEar connectors AFAIK. Music Sanctuary's demo cables are also mostly terminated in 2-pin connectors, but they have adapters from everything, including FitEar IEMs, so you'll be in good hands



That sounds awesome! I might need the whole weekend to try them all


----------



## ChrisSC

About a year ago, solid-core silver cables were all the rage, but now it seems they've gone extinct. Were the ergonomics that bad, or were the improvements just not that significant compared to stranded cables? Any insights?


----------



## PinkyPowers

Right now I'm favoring Thor II with Encore, and plusSound's GPC with tia Fourté. 

Gives these two similar IEMs a different character, and both are amazing.


----------



## ranfan (Sep 13, 2017)

delet


----------



## deafdoorknob

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1080469.html

8k+ usd for a 3m run of kimber silver cablez... 




deafdoorknob said:


> i think we may have reached "peak cable". At tokyo's e-earphone, 3m runs of Kimber's headphone cables are the highest priced items listed, comfortably superceeding hifiman's susvara by a comfortable margin SMH...
> 
> fyi, all the "no preview image" entries are kimbers... SMH ...
> 
> as a cable believer i get why others shake their heads in disbelief.


----------



## malvinviriya

Has anyone ever heard of Brise Audio's cable? I'm getting a UE18+ soon, and my friend is about to go to Japan for a holiday. I'm thinking of asking him to buy said cable for me and, well, I really wonder about its matchability. Second hand price seems low enough and I'm thinking of picking that up instead of Ares II or something similar.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## tim0chan

malvinviriya said:


> Has anyone ever heard of Brise Audio's cable? I'm getting a UE18+ soon, and my friend is about to go to Japan for a holiday. I'm thinking of asking him to buy said cable for me and, well, I really wonder about its matchability. Second hand price seems low enough and I'm thinking of picking that up instead of Ares II or something similar.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


you can check out the brise audio thread for more info, there are many impressions there


----------



## malvinviriya

tim0chan said:


> you can check out the brise audio thread for more info, there are many impressions there



Will do! Thanks


----------



## 474194

SilverFi IEM-R5 Review by FLINKENICK is live...

http://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r5/


----------



## Wyville

AC-12 said:


> SilverFi IEM-R5 Review by FLINKENICK is live...
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r5/


Nice! Hadn't seen that yet.


----------



## 474194

Wyville said:


> Nice! Hadn't seen that yet.



Hoping you are patient enough  to wait two weeks to try the UE18+.  Here are some pics I took in Asia for making the wait easier.   Don't you just want to grab them and try them on...


----------



## Wyville

AC-12 said:


> Hoping you are patient enough  to wait two weeks to try the UE18+.  Here are some pics I took in Asia for making the wait easier.   Don't you just want to grab them and try them on...


Oh you big tease! 

I will take one UE18+ Pro ToGo and... hmmm, let's see... I side order of PW No.5. 

And I want it now!!


----------



## kubig123

AC-12 said:


> SilverFi IEM-R5 Review by FLINKENICK is live...
> 
> http://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r5/



Beautiful,
unfortunately my wife would strangle me with that cable if I would ever consider to buy it.


----------



## Kerouac

Wyville said:


> And I want it now!!


Looks like somebody had too much sugar today 



kubig123 said:


> Beautiful,
> unfortunately my wife would strangle me with that cable if I would ever consider to buy it.


Well, if she's able to strangle you with it, that would mean that you would already have (heard) it and can leave this earth as a happy man.
This hobby just asks for some small sacrifices once in a while


----------



## ranfan (Sep 15, 2017)

AC-12 said:


> Hoping you are patient enough  to wait two weeks to try the UE18+.  Here are some pics I took in Asia for making the wait easier.   Don't you just want to grab them and try them on...


Are they (UE18+) using protuded-pins as connector?



>



Wow, luckily that price label is NOT in USD.


----------



## Deezel177

ranfan said:


> Are they (UE18+) using protuded-pins as connector?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, luckily that price label is NOT in USD.



Yes, UE and UM are the only two companies using it AFAIK.


----------



## ranfan

Deezel177 said:


> Yes, UE and UM are the only two companies using it AFAIK.


Thank you for clarifying. Didn't know that.


----------



## EffectAudio

Deezel177 said:


> Yes, UE and UM are the only two companies using it AFAIK.



iirc QDC does it too


----------



## Deezel177

EffectAudio said:


> iirc QDC does it too



As soon as I saw your notification, I instantly remembered QDC too  Thanks for the correction!


----------



## twister6

ranfan said:


> Are they (UE18+) using protuded-pins as connector?
> ...



This is UERR, but UE18+ Pro is the same, don't have that picture taken yet.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> This is UERR, but UE18+ Pro is the same, don't have that picture taken yet.


Can you use the regular 2 pin connectors? It would be useful to test the come with different cables before choosing the right one, with the right connectors of course


----------



## twister6

kubig123 said:


> Can you use the regular 2 pin connectors? It would be useful to test the come with different cables before choosing the right one, with the right connectors of course



regular ones have 0.78mm pins, while these UE connectors have 0.75mm.  You can force them in, but not advisable, and doesn't always works, depending on pin/socket tolerance...  Btw, UE also offers an option when you are ordering their IEMs to have mmcx connector, I think it's a $50 option.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> regular ones have 0.78mm pins, while these UE connectors have 0.75mm.  You can force them in, but not advisable, and doesn't always works, depending on pin/socket tolerance...  Btw, UE also offers an option when you are ordering their IEMs to have mmcx connector, I think it's a $50 option.



Thanks,
I won’t try it.

I have a UM ME.1 on order and I was hoping to test some of the cables I have before ordering one specific for these earphones.


----------



## proedros

my pw5 shipped today from Singapore , now we wait

i just need a nice cable for my zeus XR and then i will stop buying stuff here, nt6/zeus xr/wm1a i am fine and no more upgraditis urges

unless i open a puppy farm with @Wyville


----------



## blazinblazin

proedros said:


> my pw5 shipped today from Singapore , now we wait
> 
> i just need a nice cable for my zeus XR and then i will stop buying stuff here, nt6/zeus xr/wm1a i am fine and no more upgraditis urges
> 
> unless i open a puppy farm with @Wyville


Wait till you try gold-silver cable.


----------



## koluludome

blazinblazin said:


> Wait till you try gold-silver cable.


+1 OC studio Grace2&AuX, EA Leonidus&Horus, PW 1960s, Beat audios Virginia&Billow, etc.

It doesn't mean you have to buy, just try


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> my pw5 shipped today from Singapore , now we wait
> 
> i just need a nice cable for my zeus XR and then i will stop buying stuff here, nt6/zeus xr/wm1a i am fine and no more upgraditis urges


Nice! From what I learned from Nic I think you will like the No.5.


proedros said:


> unless i open a puppy farm with @Wyville


Great idea! We could help other head-fi'ers out as well. I can see it now...

_Proedros & Wyville's_
Head-Fido
Specialists in head-fi related puppy bribes



​


----------



## proedros

xxaaxaxaxaxaxax epic


----------



## Kerouac

blazinblazin said:


> Wait till you try gold-silver cable.


I've got 2 silver/gold (Toxic & Rhapsodio) cables, but to my ears Zeus XR matches best with a good copper one 



Wyville said:


> We could help other head-fi'ers out as well. I can see it now...
> 
> _Proedros & Wyville's_
> Head-Fido
> ...


Yeah...let's drink to that.




Cheers!


----------



## proedros

well pw5 is copper and nic says that it is a great bang-for-buck cable so it should be good

will also try the whiplash hybrid as it was also sent for 4.4 retermination


----------



## ThomasHK

I'm loving the ergonomics on my Noble Katana stock cable, but would be interested in trying to feed it balanced from my AK70. Any suggestions for highly flexible, no tangle cable? Not looking to spend more than ~$150.


----------



## artpiggo

ThomasHK said:


> I'm loving the ergonomics on my Noble Katana stock cable, but would be interested in trying to feed it balanced from my AK70. Any suggestions for highly flexible, no tangle cable? Not looking to spend more than ~$150.



Linum bax cable


----------



## PinkyPowers

ThomasHK said:


> I'm loving the ergonomics on my Noble Katana stock cable, but would be interested in trying to feed it balanced from my AK70. Any suggestions for highly flexible, no tangle cable? Not looking to spend more than ~$150.



EA Ares II.

I am mighty impressed with how soft and supple the Ares II and Thor II is. Effect Audio are geniuses.


----------



## ThomasHK

artpiggo said:


> Linum bax cable



I have the Bax. I don't along with it well. It's obviously well build and a great concept, but for me it's TOO lightweight. It coils up into it's original state even when wearing and the wire doesn't stay in place over my ear. it always jumps up and away. Shame, cause I do like it.


----------



## PinkyPowers

ThomasHK said:


> I have the Bax. I don't along with it well. It's obviously well build and a great concept, but for me it's TOO lightweight. It coils up into it's original state even when wearing and the wire doesn't stay in place over my ear. it always jumps up and away. Shame, cause I do like it.



Super BaX doesn't have that problem.


----------



## ThomasHK

PinkyPowers said:


> EA Ares II.
> 
> I am mighty impressed with how soft and supple the Ares II and Thor II is. Effect Audio are geniuses.



Thanks, Pinky. How does it compare to something like Forza AudioWorks Hybrid, if you've ever had hands on with that one. I've got one of those for my SE846 and it's nice and subtle, but still coils up quite a lot.


----------



## PinkyPowers

ThomasHK said:


> Thanks, Pinky. How does it compare to something like Forza AudioWorks Hybrid, if you've ever had hands on with that one. I've got one of those for my SE846 and it's nice and subtle, but still coils up quite a lot.



I have not tried a Forza, sorry. But EA cables have zero spring to them, and will never coil on their own accord. They are THAT soft.


----------



## kubig123 (Sep 17, 2017)

I found the linum Super BaX to be too dark for the Encore, never tried on a Katana, but I would suggest to test it before buying o


----------



## Kerouac

ThomasHK said:


> How does it compare to something like Forza AudioWorks Hybrid...


The Ares II, that @PinkyPowers recommended, would be a wise choice indeed. Incredible good sq for a $150 cable. I have it on a loan atm and will probably order one myself later on.

Imo it's a much better (more open and clear) sounding cable than the Forza hybrid one, which I also had for quite some months in the past.
Although I'm going on memory here, the FAW hybrid didn't impress me that much. The Ares II does


----------



## ThomasHK

PinkyPowers said:


> I have not tried a Forza, sorry. But EA cables have zero spring to them, and will never coil on their own accord. They are THAT soft.



Very interesting, thanks. I've ordered a 2.5mm trrs connector so I can mod one of my existing obsolete cables to see if it's actually worth forking out money for yer another cable.


----------



## normie610

Very intrigued with Lionheart + PSquare plug. Has anyone paired this with LCD i4? Any insight would be highly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## Wyville

normie610 said:


> Very intrigued with Lionheart + PSquare plug. Has anyone paired this with LCD i4? Any insight would be highly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


I believe @pinciukas has the Lionheart and LCD-i4 pairing, but I don't know if that is with PSquare. And @junix has a Lionheart on order with 2.5mm balanced. 

For the difference between the plugs @twister6's review might be helpful:
https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/



ThomasHK said:


> I'm loving the ergonomics on my Noble Katana stock cable, but would be interested in trying to feed it balanced from my AK70. Any suggestions for highly flexible, no tangle cable? Not looking to spend more than ~$150.


As others have mentioned Ares II might be an interesting option, although I am not sure how it would match with the Katana. It is a relatively bright cable for a pure copper and can push things towards a dryer, more analytical sound. For a very similar cable that stays more on the organic side the PW Audio No.5 might be a good option. @flinkenick has explained that the two cables are different takes on the same signature. Both clear and detailed, but one more analytical (Ares II) and the other more organic (No.5). I have never heard the Katana, so I don't know what would match best, but both are priced the same.

I don't know about the No.5, but the ergonomics on the Ares II are great, especially with the mini y-split (or even musician y-split), and the build quality is amazing as well. Really loving mine! 

As an alternative, and sorry to tempt you here, there is Lionheart, which is apparently a great match for the Katana:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-53#post-13723912


----------



## normie610

Wyville said:


> I believe @pinciukas has the Lionheart and LCD-i4 pairing, but I don't know if that is with PSquare. And @junix has a Lionheart on order with 2.5mm balanced.
> 
> For the difference between the plugs @twister6's review might be helpful:
> https://twister6.com/2017/07/28/effect-audio-lionheart-premium-cable/



Thanks, managed to find his post just now on the other thread. Seems like only a slight difference with the stock cable.


----------



## junix

Just wanted to confirm my Lionheart on order is with PSquared 2.5mm termination.

I plan to use it with SP1000, firstly just wanted a balanced cable for the A&K.. then got hooked up by Effect Audio Lionheart.. read the review on Headfonia, found a few posts on head-fi ..chatted a bit with Effect Audio through PM and placed the order. 

I think it should be a nice pairing with SP1000 and LCD-i4, knowing my taste.. although the difference should me minimal (which is good, the stock cable is not bad at all, apart from ergonomics) will report back when I receive it and properly "burn-in".


----------



## normie610

junix said:


> Just wanted to confirm my Lionheart on order is with PSquared 2.5mm termination.
> 
> I plan to use it with SP1000, firstly just wanted a balanced cable for the A&K.. then got hooked up by Effect Audio Lionheart.. read the review on Headfonia, found a few posts on head-fi ..chatted a bit with Effect Audio through PM and placed the order.
> 
> I think it should be a nice pairing with SP1000 and LCD-i4, knowing my taste.. although the difference should me minimal (which is good, the stock cable is not bad at all, apart from ergonomics) will report back when I receive it and properly "burn-in".



Look forward to your impression. Yeah I agree stock cable isn't bad at all and Audeze is selling it on its website for $399 so it should be a pretty good cable with that price tag


----------



## ciukas

normie610 said:


> Thanks, managed to find his post just now on the other thread. Seems like only a slight difference with the stock cable.



Yes it is with PSquared... and would like to add that it's not nearly fully burned in yet. I would need another month before I can make a proper comparison vs the stock cable, but so far I'm really loving the Lionheart. Also, price is not always an indicator of quality.


----------



## normie610

pinciukas said:


> Yes it is with PSquared... and would like to add that it's not nearly fully burned in yet. I would need another month before I can make a proper comparison vs the stock cable, but so far I'm really loving the Lionheart. Also, price is not always an indicator of quality.



Thanks, look forward to your impressions.


----------



## kubig123 (Sep 18, 2017)

Can someone provide me Eric @EffectAudio  email address?

I place and order with them and I tried to contact them, but I didntget any answer.

thanks


----------



## EffectAudio

kubig123 said:


> Can someone provide me Eric @EffectAudio  email address?
> 
> I place and order with them and I tried to contact them, but I didntget any answer.
> 
> thanks



Hey Buddy~ 

I can be reached here via PM or my mail at eric@effectaudio.com. How can i help? Btw, did you write in to info@effect? It's the only inquiry platform that I don't oversee; Every other platforms of enquiry is routed to my email and I've not left any mails unanswered thus far.

-Eric


----------



## kubig123

EffectAudio said:


> Hey Buddy~
> 
> I can be reached here via PM or my mail at eric@effectaudio.com. How can i help? Btw, did you write in to info@effect? It's the only inquiry platform that I don't oversee; Every other platforms of enquiry is routed to my email and I've not left any mails unanswered thus far.
> 
> -Eric



Thank you Eric,
I sent you an email from my personal account.


----------



## twister6

normie610 said:


> Thanks, managed to find his post just now on the other thread. Seems like only a slight difference with the stock cable.



I assume you refer to slight difference relative to LCD-i4?  In my testing of Rhodium connector vs Psquare (with U18 and TIA Fourte), the difference was quite noticeable, especially when it comes to soundstage expansion.  I still scratch my head how a connector could make such a difference, and honestly wouldn't want any other connector on @EffectAudio flagship.  Perhaps due to an open back design of LCD-i4 where I assume soundstage is probably 3D to begin with, these changes could get lost.


----------



## normie610

twister6 said:


> I assume you refer to slight difference relative to LCD-i4?  In my testing of Rhodium connector vs Psquare (with U18 and TIA Fourte), the difference was quite noticeable, especially when it comes to soundstage expansion.  I still scratch my head how a connector could make such a difference, and honestly wouldn't want any other connector on @EffectAudio flagship.  Perhaps due to an open back design of LCD-i4 where I assume soundstage is probably 3D to begin with, these changes could get lost.



Correct, I was referring to LCD i4 and I guess you're right on the soundstage issue (it's massively holographic even with the stock cable).


----------



## junix

Well, look what showed up yesterday .. 6 days after placing the order.
I suppose I was a bit lucky with raw material availability, but still, less than 1 week for a premium cable like this.
Thank you @EffectAudio !!

What do you guys say about presentation/packaging?




 



Well, at least packaging is premium. 



 



Just kidding, my very first thoughts after less than a day..

*Build quality/comfort:*
Build quality is top notch! Although the cable is thicker and looks heavier than the original LCD-i4 cable, it feels more comfortable and light due to the impeccable braiding and materials used. Thanks to the presence but minimal weight of the Mini Carbon Fiber Y splitter the Lionheart (calling it "the cable" just doesn't feel right, it's like calling Porsche a car ) just "falls naturally" without pulling the LCD-i4 out of my ears. The Lionheart "is there" but it does not get "in the way" of musical enjoyment.
The PSquared 2.5mm termination looks like a million dollars but I'll probably have no way to compare it to a "standard one", I'll just believe the other reviewers here .. 
So far I can report zero microphonics.

*Sound:*
Well, not so early.. but for now I can just say fuller, the sound is fuller and richer with an added sense of depth (IMHO).
You can expect something more detailed in a few weeks or months, after I "burn the Lionheart in" and/or " the Lionheart burns me in" (I adapt and get used to it..).


----------



## Wyville

junix said:


> Well, look what showed up yesterday .. 6 days after placing the order.
> I suppose I was a bit lucky with raw material availability, but still, less than 1 week for a premium cable like this.
> Thank you @EffectAudio !!
> 
> ...


Glad to see you like your first impression, and it looks amazing!


----------



## Fafner

How's the flexibility compared to the i4 braided cable? Are you still able to use the LCDi4's own support and to store the whole into the leather case? Asking because my current (not EA) cable doesn't allow me to use the leather case, just can't close it.


----------



## Fafner

Did you order the PSquared thing specifically? Just like for the Horus, I just can't see an option for it in the product page. Is every connector option they offer actually a PSquared?


----------



## proedros (Sep 21, 2017)

i received today my pw no5 and i can already tell that it pairs nicely with my zeus XR - also being able to upgrade from SE to the 4.4 balanced on my wm1a also helps 

supposedly i need to use the balanced thing on the wm1a for 200-500 for burn-in so the sound should improve in the next days , but from the start i am very satisfied with how no5 pairs with zeus

i should also have whiplash hybrid v3 with 4.4 next week , will also try it on zeus xr , whiplash hybrid has amazing synergy wth my NT6 but since zeus xr is quite an upgrade over NT6 i may end up using it with zeus if it pairs better than no5

we shall see

also , i think that cables will be my field of interest for the next 6 months as both wm1a and zeus xr tick all the boxes for my wants/needs and both were obtained at a good price that makes them even better buys - no more money though to spend on daps/ciems


----------



## junix

Fafner said:


> Did you order the PSquared thing specifically? Just like for the Horus, I just can't see an option for it in the product page. Is every connector option they offer actually a PSquared?


The PSquared thingy comes as a standard termination on the Lionheart.
Not every termination they offer is a PSquared, but I suppose it is so much better that EA decided to go with it on higher tier cables..

You can PM directly Eric @EffectAudio, he is very responsive.


----------



## twister6

junix said:


> The PSquared thingy comes as a standard termination on the Lionheart.
> Not every termination they offer is a PSquared, but I suppose it is so much better that EA decided to go with it on higher tier cables..
> 
> You can PM directly Eric @EffectAudio, he is very responsive.



Don't think it's a standard termination, if you look: https://www.effectaudio.com/iem-heritage-series/lionheart-preorder.html they offer 7 different termination options.  Though Psquare is not listed in there, it's $50 upgrade, but IMHO well worth it.


----------



## junix

twister6 said:


> Don't think it's a standard termination, if you look: https://www.effectaudio.com/iem-heritage-series/lionheart-preorder.html they offer 7 different termination options.  Though Psquare is not listed in there, it's $50 upgrade, but IMHO well worth it.


Yes I thought so too before ordering... but then I PM'd Eric and he replied the following:
"All "Lionheart" comes with a PSquared Plug termination. It's a higher end plug featuring Palladium/Platinum"

I cannot compare it to the standard but I read from several people (including you now ) it is 2 levels above all other terminations so I'm happy I got it ..and I would have surely added it for 50$!


----------



## Wyville

twister6 said:


> Don't think it's a standard termination, if you look: https://www.effectaudio.com/iem-heritage-series/lionheart-preorder.html they offer 7 different termination options.  Though Psquare is not listed in there, it's $50 upgrade, but IMHO well worth it.


It is a standard termination only for Lionheart and Horus and only for 2.5mm and 3.5mm. A bit confusing, but Eric recently explained it in the Effect Audio thread...


EffectAudio said:


> Apologies for the confusing information (or lack thereof)!! At the moment, PSquared Plugs is available for 2.5mm & 3.5mm. When you order a "Lionheart" / "Horus" in either configurations, PSquared Plugs will come default. For other products, currently it is unavailable. We will be offering PSquared upgrade services soon.


----------



## icebeam030

SoundBytes said:


> Well I got both cables and here are a few pictures of what everything looks like.  Cables came out great and huge difference to the UE 18+ Pros... DHC did a great job.  The cable bag is nice too.



Are these cables soft and flexible? Will they put pressure on the ear?


----------



## Deezel177

icebeam030 said:


> Are these cables soft and flexible? Will they put pressure on the ear?



DHC cables have some of the best comfort and flexibility in the industry; you shouldn't have any concerns there. The larger wire gauge of this specific cable may add some weight though.


----------



## proedros

proedros said:


> i received today my pw no5 and i can already tell that it pairs nicely with my zeus XR - also being able to upgrade from SE to the 4.4 balanced on my wm1a also helps




well bad luck , apparently i got a faulty cable and will be sending it back to music sanctuary for replacement first thing on Monday

*anyone here who has tried both the 4-braid and 8-braid of the pwaudio no5 cable ? what are their sonic differences ?*

i really liked the 4-braid cable (for the 3-4 hours that it was working) so i may decide to upgrade to the 8-braid if the sonic improvement is significant


----------



## Stephen Wu

Can anybody draw a graph for me to indicate how to connect JH audio 4 pin socket to a 8 wires TRRS 2.5mm balanced cable?
After checking the current flow of those 4 pins, I found that 3 pins are positive and 1 pin is negative, is it correct if I solder 2 positive cables to 3 pins and 1 grounding cable to 1 pin?


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> well bad luck , apparently i got a faulty cable and will be sending it back to music sanctuary for replacement first thing on Monday
> 
> *anyone here who has tried both the 4-braid and 8-braid of the pwaudio no5 cable ? what are their sonic differences ?*
> 
> i really liked the 4-braid cable (for the 3-4 hours that it was working) so i may decide to upgrade to the 8-braid if the sonic improvement is significant


Sorry to hear that my friend, that's very bad luck! 

Here is lots of puppy therapy to help cheer your up...


----------



## ranfan (Sep 23, 2017)

Wyville said:


> Sorry to hear that my friend, that's very bad luck!
> 
> Here is lots of puppy therapy to help cheer your up...


More puppies, less problem.  Thanks for the gif!


----------



## proedros

well these are 1st world problems - i spoke with Music Sanctuary and they will replace my cable so no biggie

besides zeus XR sounds alredy great even in SE with my WM1A

we'll manage (churchill voice)


----------



## proedros

since i feel i have reached  good level of dap (wm1a) and ciem (zeus XR) efficiency i am gonna do some cable reading , i liked what i heard with my pw5 cable before i had the dropouts 

btw i see there is a new effect audio cable out for 1700$ , this is getting crazy - this is more than what i paid for my zeus which sounded very nice with the 150$ pwaudio no5 cable

i am (half) wondering if this 1700$ cable paired with a 150$ iem would beat my zeus+pw5 combo


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> since i feel i have reached  good level of dap (wm1a) and ciem (zeus XR) efficiency i am gonna do some cable reading , i liked what i heard with my pw5 cable before i had the dropouts
> 
> btw i see there is a new effect audio cable out for 1700$ , this is getting crazy - this is more than what i paid for my zeus which sounded very nice with the 150$ pwaudio no5 cable
> 
> i am (half) wondering if this 1700$ cable paired with a 150$ iem would beat my zeus+pw5 combo


Now there is a very dangerous move. I have been reliably informed (Nic, Effect Audio) that Horus pairs very well with Zeus. Can you see where this is going?...


----------



## proedros

aaxxaxaxaaxa you (wallet-stealing) devil , i am not having any urges to pay those crazy amounts for a cable , already did that to get wm1a and zeus

i am a wise-spending person and i have a very limited budget so all those 1000$+ cables don't click me at all 

btw watch where those puppies take you , the road to zeus or other totl ciems is closer than you think


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> aaxxaxaxaaxa you (wallet-stealing) devil , i am not having any urges to pay those crazy amounts for a cable , already did that to get wm1a and zeus
> 
> i am a wise-spending person and i have a very limited budget so all those 1000$+ cables don't click me at all
> 
> btw watch where those puppies take you , the road to zeus or other totl ciems is closer than you think


It gets worse, I will be listening to Horus on Friday...


----------



## proedros

Wyville said:


> It gets worse, I will be listening to Horus on Friday...




you're married , right ? going and auditioning say zeus with horus is like being married and having Hugh Hefner invite you over to his playboy mansion for a night and then he says to you 'hey wyville , feel free to fuc.k any playmate you like'

why would you do this to yourself ? say no the DEVIL


----------



## blazinblazin

I am using Leonidas with WM1A and Andromeda.

It's already quite realistic sounding, i often zone out into the music.

From some short review said that it is an upgrade to Leonidas.

So i can't imagine how good Horus will be.


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> why would you do this to yourself ? say no the DEVIL


Medically diagnosed poor impulse control. I can't be held accountable for my own actions. 

Not sure if Arthur/Zeus will be there though, so temptation might just be slightly less bad. Plus my wife will confiscate my credit card on the day. 


blazinblazin said:


> I am using Leonidas with WM1A and Andromeda.
> 
> It's already quite realistic sounding, i often zone out into the music.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you are referring to the video @Ultrainferno posted this morning:
https://www.headfonia.com/watch-it-wednesday-the-effect-audio-horus/

..but it is funny how he comments on initially not expecting that much could be gained over Leonidas and then being very impressed by how Horus managed to do that anyway. 

The Andromenda + Leonidas pairing sounds nice though. Wish they had Campfire Audio here in the UK.


----------



## Deezel177

If I'm being entirely honest, I haven't had a gold-laced Effect Audio cable _really_ impress me apart from the Lionheart and the Leo+Mars combo, so the Horus must unquestionably blow my socks off for me to swallow that price tag. October 10th could not come sooner


----------



## ezekiel77

proedros said:


> you're married , right ? going and auditioning say zeus with horus is like being married and having *Hugh Hefner* invite you over to his playboy mansion for a night and then he says to you 'hey wyville , feel free to fuc.k any playmate you like'
> 
> why would you do this to yourself ? say no the DEVIL


Bro what did you do??? Hugh Hefner just died, for real!


----------



## proedros

does that mean that @Wyville will not get to demo zeus/horus now ?

ps : what a live Hugh lived , such a lucky guy


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> does that mean that @Wyville will not get to demo zeus/horus now ?
> 
> ps : what a live Hugh lived , such a lucky guy


Horus yes, Zeus I don't know. We are all prepared for tomorrow with some posh high-brow single malt Scotch, aptly named the "Founder's Reserve" to toast Suyang's and the Effect Audio team's latest creation "Horus".


----------



## haiku

Bought me some cables.


----------



## Kerouac (Sep 28, 2017)

proedros said:


> ps : what a live Hugh lived , such a lucky guy


Well, he was a pioneer. I've read that when he started his (later on famous) magazine, he only had $600. Where other people (not mentioning any names here) invest such an amount in a ciem like the Hidition NT6 


haiku said:


> Bought me some cables.


Are these their 'Supreme Reference Monarch' ones and if so, do you still have both your kidneys? 
And of course the main question: how do they sound?

Oh...and last but not least: what specific iem/dap/amp are you using with these cables?


----------



## haiku

Kerouac said:


> Well, he was a pioneer. I've read that when he started his (later on famous) magazine, he only had $600. Where other people (not mentioning any names here) invest such an amount in a ciem like the Hidition NT6
> 
> Are these their 'Supreme Reference Monarch' ones and if so, do you still have both your kidneys?
> And of course the main question: how do they sound?



That´s right. The right one is the Supreme Reference Monarch (The Grand Master), the ultimate upgrade for my Layla II. The left one is the Supreme Reference Monarch IC with Total True Balanced connection for my AK SP1000 Copper + ALO CDM Tube Amp.
How it sounds? Worth risking living without kidneys, I´d say.....


----------



## artpiggo

haiku said:


> Bought me some cables.



Beautiful cable indeed.

I am also using this Sup Ref series but only 4 conductor. This one should be a big step up from me. Enjoy listening!


----------



## haiku (Sep 29, 2017)

artpiggo said:


> Beautiful cable indeed.
> 
> I am also using this Sup Ref series but only 4 conductor. This one should be a big step up from me. Enjoy listening!



Yes, it was love at first sight. Ultimate Luxury for the eyes & ears.
I´ve used Moon Audio Silver Dragons before. Compared to the Brimar cables, it´s like I was listening to 2 way speakers before, and now I´ve got some Wilson Audio Wamm right in front of me!


----------



## tim0chan

haiku said:


> Yes, it was love at first sight. Ultimate Luxury for the eyes & ears.
> I´ve used Moon Audio Silver Dragons before. Compared to the Brimar cables, it´s like I was listening to 2 way speakers before, and now I´ve got some Wilson Audio Wamm right in front of me!


some impressions on the silver dragon? Its at the price bracket which i can afford


----------



## haiku

tim0chan said:


> some impressions on the silver dragon? Its at the price bracket which i can afford



IC or IEM cable?


----------



## tim0chan

haiku said:


> IC or IEM cable?


iem please


----------



## haiku

tim0chan said:


> iem please



Which IEM are you listening with?


----------



## Deezel177

Hey guys! I recently received my AK70-Kai (modded by Ryuzoh of Musashi Sound Technologies) and my 2-wire PWAudio 1960s from Music Sanctuary. Realising just now that I haven't yet posted any impressions of either here, here are my thoughts on both copied from Nic's _Ranking the Stars_ thread. To keep with the theme of the thread, the 1960s impressions are in bold. Enjoy!



Deezel177 said:


> But, you know what you *can't* hear at Indulgence?
> 
> *The Zeus-XR // 2-wire 1960s // AK70-Kai Super-Combo!!
> 
> ...


----------



## tim0chan

haiku said:


> Which IEM are you listening with?


The spartan from empire ears


----------



## haiku (Sep 29, 2017)

tim0chan said:


> The spartan from empire ears



Well, the Silver Dragons sound very smooth and spacious, most people like the sound signature. You might give them a try, but from what I read about the spartan, you could also aim for Crystal Cable. They sound even smoother and have more micro details. They´re a bit pricier though....


----------



## tim0chan

haiku said:


> Well, the Silver Dragons sound very smooth and spacious, most people like the sound signature. You might give them a try, but from what I read about the spartan, you could also aim for Crystal Cable. They sound even smoother and have more micro details. They´re a bit pricier though....


The piccolino? Nobody seems to want to let go of them 
What abt the bass? Does it do anything in that department?


----------



## haiku

tim0chan said:


> The piccolino? Nobody seems to want to let go of them
> What abt the bass? Does it do anything in that department?



Yup, that´s the problem, I know.  

When you come from the stock cables, you can be sure that the SD adds a bit more in all departments. It´s hard to beat in it´s price segment, that´s why it got so many awards.


----------



## haiku

You might want to contact Richard @ Audiologica.co.uk. I know, he just got some new Crystal Cables in stock. Maybe there´s a piccolino left for you!


----------



## ostewart (Sep 29, 2017)

Wyville said:


> Horus yes, Zeus I don't know. We are all prepared for tomorrow with some posh high-brow single malt Scotch, aptly named the "Founder's Reserve" to toast Suyang's and the Effect Audio team's latest creation "Horus".



I am just going to say Erik is a wonderful guy, meeting someone in person is always a pleasure after talking online with them. and I am more than happy to loan out my gear to him for review.

The single malt scotch was not needed, and I am extremely happy with it, cannot wait to sit back with some good music and enjoy it


----------



## twister6

ostewart said:


> I am just going to say Erik is a wonderful guy, meeting someone in person is always a pleasure after  I talking online with them. and I am more than happy to loan out my gear to him for review.
> 
> The single malt scotch was not needed, and I am extremely happy with it, cannot wait to sit back with some good music and enjoy it



How about the other Eric, and impressions of Horus


----------



## ostewart

twister6 said:


> How about the other Eric, and impressions of Horus



Well Horus is just an awesome cable, it's one of those that is slightly contradictory in that the bass is fuller and more articulate but the mids and highs are also improved and much better separated with subtle detail shining through with excellent transparency. The layering and soundstage are superb too.

The other Eric was not at the show


----------



## tim0chan

haiku said:


> Yup, that´s the problem, I know.
> 
> When you come from the stock cables, you can be sure that the SD adds a bit more in all departments. It´s hard to beat in it´s price segment, that´s why it got so many awards.


Thx for the impressions, Will go look for them in the used market.  Richard only seems to have the newer cables,  not the piccolino. I am looking for a low profile, light cable, like the one i am currently using,  the wagnus spiderlily


----------



## Deezel177 (Sep 30, 2017)

Amidst all the Horus hype, we seem to have another wallet-killer on our hands... Meet the new Han Sound Audio flagship: *The Venom*.




I just spoke to the guys at Music Sanctuary about it and, paraphrasing what they said, they told me, "It's one of the best cables [they've] ever sold," and that, "[They're] *REALLY* excited by how well it performs." Throughout my two-and-a-half years of knowing the MS crew, words like these don't get said very often. At its retail price of S$1899, it certainly isn't cheap, but if it can manage to match the Horus and 1960s when I audition all three in a week-and-a-half, you can count me extremely hyped... and properly poisoned.


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> Amidst all the Horus hype, we seem to have another wallet-killer on our hands... Meet the new Han Sound Audio flagship: *The Venom*.
> 
> 
> 
> I just spoke to the guys at Music Sanctuary about it and, paraphrasing what they said, they told me, "It's one of the best cables [they've] ever sold," and that, "[They're] *REALLY* excited by how well it performs." Throughout my two-and-a-half years of knowing the MS crew, words like these don't get said very often. At its retail price of $1899, it certainly isn't cheap, but if it can manage to match the Horus and 1960s when I audition all three in a week-and-a-half, you can count me extremely hyped... and properly poisoned.



my head is spinning


----------



## artpiggo

Was about to show the same picture of music sanc.

Deezel, you are so fast!


----------



## Deezel177 (Sep 30, 2017)

artpiggo said:


> Was about to show the same picture of music sanc.
> 
> Deezel, you are so fast!



Yeah, the notification arrived as I was on Facebook; call it fate.  As an aside, I forgot to specify that the Venom's price is in *SGD*; not USD. I have edited the post accordingly.


----------



## Wyville

ostewart said:


> I am just going to say Erik is a wonderful guy, meeting someone in person is always a pleasure after talking online with them. and I am more than happy to loan out my gear to him for review.
> 
> The single malt scotch was not needed, and I am extremely happy with it, cannot wait to sit back with some good music and enjoy it


Same here! I really enjoyed the opportunity to meet up and have a chat with you, I could have stayed there distracting you from your work all day long!  Really enjoyed demoing some cables and the Oriveti, but as I got home realised I forgot to try out the Piano Forte. Darn it! Oh well, never mind! 

You earned that single malt! Both for generously loaning me your gear and the excellent service through HiFiHeadphones. Enjoy!

Meanwhile, some (tentative) impressions of Horus and Lionheart:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-63#post-13754524


----------



## PinkyPowers (Oct 1, 2017)

Finished this write-up. Love the cable from @EffectAudio

*What Doesn’t Kill You – A Review of the Effect Audio Thor Silver II*
 ​


----------



## ostewart

PinkyPowers said:


> Finished this write-up. Love the cable!
> 
> *What Doesn’t Kill You – A Review of the Effect Audio Thor Silver II*
> ​



Perfectly sums up my opinion of Thor Silver II but written much better than I ever could 

My review of their Eros II will be up in a couple of days, that's a cable that pairs well with every IEM I have thrown at it. Beautifully balanced sounding yet incredibly open and layered sound.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Thanks. I look forward to reading your impressions of Eros.


----------



## kubig123

PinkyPowers said:


> Finished this write-up. Love the cable from @EffectAudio
> 
> *What Doesn’t Kill You – A Review of the Effect Audio Thor Silver II*
> ​



Love it!!!

tomorrow I'm going to receive my Thor + cable I ordered, cannot wait to try it with the Encore, I knew it would be a great match!


----------



## PinkyPowers

kubig123 said:


> Love it!!!
> 
> tomorrow I'm going to receive my Thor + cable I ordered, cannot wait to try it with the Encore, I knew it would be a great match!



From what I gather, EA's plus cables are quite different from their non-plus cables. So, don't lean too heavily on my review as a baseline for the experience you're about to have. But I'm awfully interested in hearing how they pair together. Do share when it comes in!


----------



## Deezel177

Hey guys! I recently managed to demo the Effect Audio Horus at my local Jaben. Here are my impressions (plus comparisons to my 2-wire 1960s) copied and pasted from the Effect Audio thread:


Deezel177 said:


> The Effect Audio Horus is cable that's worthy of its flagship status (though whether or not it's worth the price is *certainly* a different question). It has a sound signature that's relatively uncoloured, neutral and transparent, and instead aims to improve technical performance instead of altering an IEM's specific "flavour."
> 
> The Horus's bass and lower midrange are among the most visceral, textured, well-layered, and deep I've ever heard from a cable. Overall bass quantity is above neutral and impact is readily felt, even with IEMs like the Empire Ears Zeus. Both width and depth impress as hits and rumbles extend to the left-most and right-most perimeters of the stage, and arrive with force and texture. Bass-y IEMs or IEMs that are tuned relatively neutrally but with a focus on vocals (i.e. the Warbler Prelude) may not benefit from this boost, but it complements IEMs like the Zeus excellently. Compared to the low-end of the 1960s, quantity is similar, but where they differ mainly is in presentation. The Horus presents its bass with less bloom, less richness and less body, sounding drier, tighter, and more physical. The Horus also bests the 1960s in low-end air and dynamics, where it punches harder and lets instruments like bass guitars gnash with grain. However, overall resolution down-low is similar - with body and separation carrying the 1960s where the Horus excels - but clarity, punch, power, and depth all belong to the Effect Audio flagship.
> 
> ...


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys! I recently managed to demo the Effect Audio Horus at my local Jaben. Here are my impressions (plus comparisons to my 2-wire 1960s) copied and pasted from the Effect Audio thread:



Thank you for the review.

I'm really impressed by PWaudio and how they were able to produce a cooper cable (yes, expensive) that has a sound signature taht is very different from any other cooper cables I have.


----------



## blazinblazin

I was wondering for a long time if anyone had opened up their PW 1960s to see is it really only pure copper inside.


----------



## kubig123

blazinblazin said:


> I was wondering for a long time if anyone had opened up their PW 1960s to see is it really only pure copper inside.




I'm curious too, but I'm definitely not gonna try it.


----------



## Deezel177

blazinblazin said:


> I was wondering for a long time if anyone had opened up their PW 1960s to see is it really only pure copper inside.



I've seen one end of the PWAudio 1960s opened for a retermination job, and I can confirm that the conductor is indeed pure copper. It looked like any other copper wire to me, so I'm guessing the magic is in the shielding/sleeving.


----------



## 474194

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys! I recently managed to demo the Effect Audio Horus at my local Jaben. Here are my impressions (plus comparisons to my 2-wire 1960s) copied and pasted from the Effect Audio thread:



Nice Review Vin Deezel..


----------



## tim0chan

kubig123 said:


> I'm curious too, but I'm definitely not gonna try it.


a Singaporean modder did it to make an interconnect.  It was all copper


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys! I recently managed to demo the Effect Audio Horus at my local Jaben. Here are my impressions (plus comparisons to my 2-wire 1960s) copied and pasted from the Effect Audio thread:



great impressionss - however i can't help but feel that *1960 2-wire is surely the better deal as it seems to be an equal opponent of Horus but costing much, much less*

again great impressions , now i am more eager to try the 1960 2-wire with my zeus XR 

cheers


----------



## Junmoe62

Hi guys, 
I posted few pictures of the combo Beat Audio Billow cable + Audeze LCD-i4 + iBasso DX200 with Amp3. 
I thought that it would make sense to share them here as well. If you want to have a look, they are in the i4 thread and here is the link : 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...nitor-discussion.850292/page-73#post-13781929


----------



## icebeam030

Really interested in the EA Horus. But no way to try a demo here in Sydney...


----------



## ductrung3993 (Oct 17, 2017)

Hi @flinkenick and all , I need advice for a replacement cable for my Andromeda (pair with zx2). I found the stock sound to be a bit too thin and v-shaped for my liking so I would like something that's more warm and lush. My favorite genre is vocal so I would prefer a mid-centric sound that would result in warm and lush female vocals (ADx series-ish if you will, just not that colored)
I have a PW n5 coming later this afternoon and will give update on thow that will fare, but I'd still want to use the waiting time to ask for other recommendation. After a bit of research, I think that gold plated copper would fit me the best but I'm open to any other type as well. Thank you for reading.


----------



## blazinblazin

Maybe you can try EA Lionheart


----------



## ductrung3993 (Oct 15, 2017)

blazinblazin said:


> Maybe you can try EA Lionheart


Thank you, I will keep that one in mind along with Plussound's 4 wire X series GPC.
To add to my post, my budget is $500 max (used ok) and it seems that I will be most happy with a "fall" cable, and sth that can make Andro as "dynamic-sounding" as possible.


----------



## koluludome

Ordered 1960s 4 wires from PWaudio <3

Can't wait to hear it compare to Virginia cable from Beat Audio


----------



## artpiggo

koluludome said:


> Ordered 1960s 4 wires from PWaudio <3
> 
> Can't wait to hear it compare to Virginia cable from Beat Audio



so rich ah.


----------



## beyerdramatic (Oct 16, 2017)

Hi friends. Anyone of you guys ever heard of the "The Gold 26" cable from PWAudio? I can't seem to find any impression about the cable anywhere, except a super vague comment on PWAudio's Facebook fan page, saying it "focuses on vocal" (?).

I'm looking to buy a cable to use with my Campfire Andromeda, along with the ZX2 from Sony. Several trusted ears recommended the Ref 8 from Alo Audio, but there's an interesting offer for a second hand "The Gold 26", which goes about the same price with the Ref 8. The dealers here are unable to book an audition for me, so it's pretty much blind buy at the moment.

Any impression/recommendation would be great. Thanks in advance.


----------



## proedros

@beyerdramatic  I will put my Forza Audio Hybrid (4-braid) cable for sale , and it already has TRRS termination for ZX2 

new sells for 140 euro + shipping , thinking of selling it for 100 euros all in (PP fees + shipping with tracking included)

just a heads up , before i upload it on the FS threads


----------



## korvin12

koluludome said:


> Ordered 1960s 4 wires from PWaudio <3
> 
> Can't wait to hear it compare to Virginia cable from Beat Audio



U will be blown away by the sound i think


----------



## Kerouac

korvin12 said:


> U will be blown away by the sound i think


Naah...nothing special


----------



## koluludome (Oct 16, 2017)

Kerouac said:


> Naah...nothing special



This is my feeling the first time I tried Virginia.

My (eye) balls was blown away 



beyerdramatic said:


> Hi friends. Anyone of you guys ever heard of the "The Golden 26" cable from PWAudio? I can't seem to find any impression about the cable anywhere, except a super vague comment on PWAudio's Facebook fan page, saying it "focuses on vocal" (?).
> 
> I'm looking to buy a cable to use with my Campfire Andromeda, along with the ZX2 from Sony. Several trusted ears recommended the Ref 8 from Alo Audio, but there's an interesting offer for a second hand "The Golden 26", which goes about the same price with the Ref 8. The dealers here are unable to book an audition for me, so it's pretty much blind buy at the moment.
> 
> Any impression/recommendation would be great. Thanks in advance.



I found that Andromeda is too edgy for me.

So If it was a step from PWaudio the flash cable and I have to choose only between the Golden and ref8, I will go for the Golden for sure


----------



## koluludome (Oct 16, 2017)

sorry double post


----------



## beyerdramatic

proedros said:


> @beyerdramatic  I will put my Forza Audio Hybrid (4-braid) cable for sale , and it already has TRRS termination for ZX2
> 
> new sells for 140 euro + shipping , thinking of selling it for 100 euros all in (PP fees + shipping with tracking included)
> 
> just a heads up , before i upload it on the FS threads



Thanks a lot, friend, but I'm not looking to buy from overseas as it's always been a huge problem for me, mainly because of the incredibly incompetent post office and delivery services.




koluludome said:


> I found that Andromeda is too edgy for me.
> 
> So If it was a step from PWaudio the flash cable and I have to choose only between the Golden and ref8, I will go for the Golden for sure



Noob question, but would a gold-plated silver cable change the Andromeda sound? I'm very happy with this particular IEM and not looking to change anything about the way it sounds, especially in the mid range as I have a lot of not very well mastered music, and "shouty" vocals always make me squirm a bit.


----------



## koluludome (Oct 17, 2017)

@beyerdramatic

Most cable always change the sound, much or less.
Some may recognize, some may not.


----------



## tim0chan

beyerdramatic said:


> Thanks a lot, friend, but I'm not looking to buy from overseas as it's always been a huge problem for me, mainly because of the incredibly incompetent post office and delivery services.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would reccomend the pw audio n05 copper litz cable, more resolution, more or less same audio


----------



## korvin12

Kerouac said:


> Naah...nothing special



Guess you are not so impressed about the sound?


----------



## ductrung3993

ductrung3993 said:


> Hi @flinkenick and all , I need advice for a replacement cable for my Andromeda (pair with zx2). I found the stock sound to be a bit too thin and v-shaped for my liking so I would like something that's more warm and lush. My favorite genre is vocal so I would prefer a mid-centric sound that would result in warm and lush female vocals (ADx series-ish if you will, just not that colored) After a bit of research, I think that gold plated copper would fit me the best but I'm open to any other type as well. My budget is $500 max (used ok) and it seems that I will be most happy with a "fall" cable, and sth that can make Andro as "dynamic-sounding" as possible. Thank you for reading.


Update: Got PW no5 today and it is certainly a step in the right direction. I'm looking for more of the same effect though, i.e. an even lusher mid. Can you guys recommend me something? Thank you!
My current top picks are the (cheaper) Gold Plated Copper from Plussound and I'm interested in trying Effect Audio Lionheart/Leonidas as well.


----------



## Kerouac (Oct 18, 2017)

korvin12 said:


> Guess you are not so impressed about the sound?


Haha...I was just joking of course, because of that _'blown away'_ part.

You ordered the 4 wire, where I have the 2 wire PW1960. But I really like how the 2 wire 1960 matches my Zeus XR.
Haven't heard the Beat Audio Virginia myself, but synergy is always the keyword when you buy/try a cable with a specific (c)iem.
The last few days I listened a lot with my good ol' Solar, which has great synergy with a Norne silver cable 

And while we're talking 'bout cables (I would almost start thinking that this is some kinda cable thread): I've got 2 really nice and affordable ones for sale over here


----------



## blazinblazin

beyerdramatic said:


> Thanks a lot, friend, but I'm not looking to buy from overseas as it's always been a huge problem for me, mainly because of the incredibly incompetent post office and delivery services.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure it will.
Actually gold-silver cable sounds magical, you should try one.

I have my Andromeda with Leonidas


----------



## beyerdramatic

blazinblazin said:


> Sure it will.
> Actually gold-silver cable sounds magical, you should try one.
> 
> I have my Andromeda with Leonidas



 Thanks for your recommendation, but isn't the Leonidas built to pair with warmer IEMs?


----------



## blazinblazin (Oct 18, 2017)

beyerdramatic said:


> Thanks for your recommendation, but isn't the Leonidas built to pair with warmer IEMs?


Not necessarily. It depends on your setup.
I have WM1A to gives all the clear lows and with Leonidas with Andro bringing out all the sub-bass, low rumbles, soundstage and highs.

Actually no matter how high you goes, WM1A actually smooth out the sharper side of highs. That's what i noticed.

This setup gave a very huge, deep and transparent soundstage. Sounding very natural and realistic.


----------



## Barra

*Announcement - Beat Audio US Premium IEM Upgrade Cable Tour*
Given all the talk about cables in this thread, I thought I would mention a new US cable tour that will allow you to try them for yourself. Having hosted a number of TOTL CIEM tours, the topic always comes up so it only made sense to do a cable series. Beat Audio graciously provided us with the first tour kit which I am very excited to hear. Those that are interested can sign up here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bea...s-head-fi-tour-starting-november-2017.863166/


----------



## icebeam030

Anyone has tried the new generation of Astell&Kern crystal cable Cantabile?
I'm curious about its combination with 64 audio A18.


----------



## twister6

Review is done: https://twister6.com/2017/11/04/effect-audio-horus-flagship-cable/


----------



## chaiyuta

@twister6 : Thanks for review and show-off where Ferrite guard is.


----------



## twister6

chaiyuta said:


> @twister6 : Thanks for review and show-off where Ferrite guard is.



You are welcome!


----------



## chaiyuta

@twister6 : You made my day. From now on I can sleep tight better than ever.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> You are welcome!



This is extremely interesting , you can really appreciate the time and knowhow effect audio put in their cables from these details.

I always add a ferrite to any of my usb cable when I used them connected to a dac.
But this solution is hundred times more elegant!

Chapeau


----------



## haiku

Ultimate cable upgrade for my CA Vegas: Brimar Audio Kaiser Cable with breakthrough technology. 16 Braids. 7N Super OCC Silver + 24Kart Gold Alloy with Gold Filling, 7N Super OCC Silver and 7N Super OCC Copper in each single wire.


----------



## haiku




----------



## Imusicman

haiku said:


>


How does it sound?


----------



## haiku

Imusicman said:


> How does it sound?



Very rich, but with a perfect tonal balance. I also have the Supreme Reference Monarch (The Grand Master) for my Layla II, but it sounds extremely rich, and then some. Just like a luxurious perfume. The Kaiser Cable is better for every day listening.


----------



## chaiyuta

@haiku : I ever auditioned Kaiser. It's a great one. good tonality It is not bright likes The Prince, though I like how unique sound of The prince. By the way, from picture I can count only 8-wire not 16-wire..


----------



## haiku (Nov 13, 2017)

chaiyuta said:


> @haiku : I ever auditioned Kaiser. It's a great one. good tonality It is not bright likes The Prince, though I like how unique sound of The prince. By the way, from picture I can count only 8-wire not 16-wire..



And you´re absolutely right! Thanks for the comment, I never really cared about it, but trusted Mr. Yu. Seems he was wrong. Well, crap happens, but from what I remember, Mr. Yu said, that for 16 braid (the Omni King IC I´ll soon get) there are no balanced 2.5mm plugs available. So he can only use 3.5mm plugs. But I wanted balanced plugs for my iems, so 8 braid might just be the maximum size. Anyway, the sound is outta this world! Totally unreal! 

PS: I just got confirmation from Mr. Yu that what I´ve written above is right. IEM balanced cable (with 2.5mm plug) maximum size is 8 braid.


----------



## kubig123

I'll never get tired to listen to this setup! 
The PWaudio 1960 is an incredible cooper cable, transparent, full of details like no other cables of the same material has (at list that I experienced), it pairs perfectly with the Encore.


----------



## 284033

kubig123 said:


> I'll never get tired to listen to this setup!
> The PWaudio 1960 is an incredible cooper cable, transparent, full of details like no other cables of the same material has (at list that I experienced), it pairs perfectly with the Encore.



Heyyyy you reterminated it? I remembered your order was for a 4.4mm TRRRS cable.


----------



## kubig123

Kozato said:


> Heyyyy you reterminated it? I remembered your order was for a 4.4mm TRRRS cable.



Oh no!
I found another one for sale from a fellow head-fier.


----------



## Sylanthra

I am looking for advice.
I have 64 Audio A18 CIEM with stock cable and I recently bought a used AK380. Now I would like to buy a balanced cable. I mostly listen to groups like Amberian Dawn, Xandria and Within Temptation. I believe the genre is called symphonic metal with female vocals. I don't have a set budget in mind, but lets say bellow $1000. Preferable way bellow. Last point, I listen to music on the go, so the cables need to be flexible.

I apologize if this isn't the right place to post this, I posted to https://www.head-fi.org/threads/recommend-upgrade-cables-for-my-64-audio-a18.865698/ yesterday got two recommendations, but no explanation for why I should choose a particular cable. I am hoping people in this thread can provide a more detailed explanation. 

Thanks.


----------



## flinkenick

Sylanthra said:


> I am looking for advice.
> I have 64 Audio A18 CIEM with stock cable and I recently bought a used AK380. Now I would like to buy a balanced cable. I mostly listen to groups like Amberian Dawn, Xandria and Within Temptation. I believe the genre is called symphonic metal with female vocals. I don't have a set budget in mind, but lets say bellow $1000. Preferable way bellow. Last point, I listen to music on the go, so the cables need to be flexible.
> 
> I apologize if this isn't the right place to post this, I posted to https://www.head-fi.org/threads/recommend-upgrade-cables-for-my-64-audio-a18.865698/ yesterday got two recommendations, but no explanation for why I should choose a particular cable. I am hoping people in this thread can provide a more detailed explanation.
> ...


I personally like HanSound Zen with A18; lightly warm, and a smooth top-end. Priced at $150, and easy on the go.


----------



## Whazzzup

Double helix sp v3 type 4 litz 8 braid on encore


----------



## kubig123

Whazzzup said:


> Double helix sp v3 type 4 litz 8 braid on encore



Holy moly  

That's an awesome cable!!!!

How does it sound?


----------



## Sylanthra

flinkenick said:


> I personally like HanSound Zen with A18; lightly warm, and a smooth top-end. Priced at $150, and easy on the go.



Thank for the recommendation, Any particular reason you are recommending a copper cable instead of silver or something more fancy?


----------



## Whazzzup

kubig123 said:


> Holy moly
> 
> That's an awesome cable!!!!
> 
> How does it sound?



Thx, i use dhc for all my cable / interconnect needs. It just brings the sound a bit closer and wider. I guess opens transparency.


----------



## kubig123

Whazzzup said:


> Thx, i use dhc for all my cable / interconnect needs. It just brings the sound a bit closer and wider. I guess opens transparency.



Thanks,
I’ve been looking at this cable for a while, then I’ll always find something else to buy.

Usually a higher number of wire opens the soundstage.

Did you by any chance try the Symbiote Elite 19? It looks incredible but also very heavy to use with an iem.


----------



## Whazzzup (Nov 22, 2017)

kubig123 said:


> Thanks,
> I’ve been looking at this cable for a while, then I’ll always find something else to buy.
> 
> Usually a higher number of wire opens the soundstage.
> ...


No I always just get his top of the line model of the time for the need at hand. Then be done with it. His cables are soft considering they look like honking cables but not really


----------



## tim0chan

Sylanthra said:


> Thank for the recommendation, Any particular reason you are recommending a copper cable instead of silver or something more fancy?


Copper is generally warmer than silver, and considering your genre, i dont think u want more brightness, accentuating the treble on an already "trebly" iem


----------



## kubig123

The Symbiote Elite 19 is the new top of the line, but is also extremly big, I wonder how comfortable can be with a iem.

It cost $1,3k


----------



## Whazzzup

kubig123 said:


> The Symbiote Elite 19 is the new top of the line, but is also extremly big, I wonder how comfortable can be with a iem.
> 
> It cost $1,3k


Got my encore and cable last year  blk friday sale so yes i was bummed that it came out after my order........dont worry with any of his top flight cables like prion 4 etc.... they are substantive but not unwieldy.


----------



## Whazzzup

tim0chan said:


> Copper is generally warmer than silver, and considering your genre, i dont think u want more brightness, accentuating the treble on an already "trebly" iem



Im not sure about tone changes between cables and types. Granted never had the opportunity to do a valid test, i do have copper cables... I now believe that silver type 4 and type 6 litz is just a superior cable bringing out transparent details, who wouldn't want that...


----------



## kubig123

Whazzzup said:


> Im not sure about tone changes between cables and types. Granted never had the opportunity to do a valid test, i do have copper cables... I now believe that silver type 4 and type 6 litz is just a superior cable bringing out transparent details, who wouldn't want that...



Usually the silver cables enhance the treble and resolution, but there is not a perfect formula.
I found the Effect Audio Thor II+ to add a touch of smoothness and increase the soundstage without increasing the treble.

While the whiplash silver cable add a huge amount of resolution but for certain people it could be too much treble (I Iike it).

I think Nic have a good starting point, than it’s up to the owner to decide which way to go.


----------



## kubig123

Whazzzup said:


> No I always just get his top of the line model of the time for the need at hand. Then be done with it. His cables are soft considering they look like honking cables but not really



Yes,
I tried a prion cable built for iem but it was not comfortable at all. 
Stil I would love to try the Elite 19.


----------



## Whazzzup

Prion 4  for an Iem? That’s unusual, I have it for my hd800S it’s great. But not for an iem.


----------



## kubig123

Whazzzup said:


> Prion 4  for an Iem? That’s unusual, I have it for my hd800S it’s great. But not for an iem.



Yes,
Was a unique cable that I bought from an head-fier some time ago, but I sold it quickly was not for me. Not soft enough for an iem.
Unfortunately I didn’t spend too much time listening to that cable.


----------



## tim0chan

Whazzzup said:


> Im not sure about tone changes between cables and types. Granted never had the opportunity to do a valid test, i do have copper cables... I now believe that silver type 4 and type 6 litz is just a superior cable bringing out transparent details, who wouldn't want that...


there is quite a large difference between certain cables but others like the thor ii (silver) and pw audio 1960s 4 wire (copper) can surprise you


----------



## Wyville

Whazzzup said:


> Double helix sp v3 type 4 litz 8 braid on encore


Great looking cable! I always love seeing 8-braid cables, they're like works of art. 


Whazzzup said:


> Im not sure about tone changes between cables and types. Granted never had the opportunity to do a valid test, i do have copper cables... I now believe that silver type 4 and type 6 litz is just a superior cable bringing out transparent details, who wouldn't want that...


You can get quite pronounced changes through different cables. I have been going through various cables by Effect Audio and should be getting a couple of others in for comparison as well, and I have been surprised by the changes I have heard so far. 

Comparing Ares II to Eros II for instance, there is quite a noticeable difference in tone and that surprised me because I found it very hard to imagine the difference based on the descriptions I read. Ares II was the brighter copper cable that added clarity and treble extension. Eros II was a silver/copper hybrid that to me seemed it should do much the same thing. When I reviewed them I noticed that Ares II, although certainly adding clarity and being a bit brighter, still had some of the warmth and intimacy typically associated with copper cables. Whereas with Eros II I felt it was more neutral, with a slight lift in treble and a much tighter bass, resulting in a different positioning of various instruments. Instruments also sounded more natural. It will undoubtedly depend on the IEMs used. I used my Custom Art Ei.3 and the 64 Audio U6 I had on loan, which both have quite a warm and smooth signature with a slightly attenuated treble. 

If you ever have a chance to demo them, I think a very interesting test will be to compare Ares II with Ares II+. Both are copper cables, but their tone is very different:

 
This graph should be viewed in context, but what it shows is that Ares II+ is the typical copper cable with a much warmer tone, whereas Ares II has much less emphasis on the lows and relatively more on the highs. As far as I know, the main difference between the cables is their geometry/thickness: 26 AWG (Ares II) and 22 AWG (Ares II+).


----------



## flinkenick

Sylanthra said:


> Thank for the recommendation, Any particular reason you are recommending a copper cable instead of silver or something more fancy?





tim0chan said:


> Copper is generally warmer than silver, and considering your genre, i dont think u want more brightness, accentuating the treble on an already "trebly" iem


What this guy said ^

But it depends on what you're looking for, you can also go with something more fancy if you like hehe. If you want greater transparency and a more neutral sound, maybe something like Leonidas would be nice at $800. Or for a more resolved but smooth sound maybe the Whiplash TWau for instance at $550.


----------



## duo8 (Nov 26, 2017)

nvm


----------



## Sylanthra

flinkenick said:


> But it depends on what you're looking for, you can also go with something more fancy if you like hehe. If you want greater transparency and a more neutral sound, maybe something like Leonidas would be nice at $800. Or for a more resolved but smooth sound maybe the Whiplash TWau for instance at $550.



What about SilverFi IEM-2 or IEM-X? I've read a number of cable reviews and SilverFi seems to be getting particularly glowing reviews.


----------



## tim0chan

Sylanthra said:


> What about SilverFi IEM-2 or IEM-X? I've read a number of cable reviews and SilverFi seems to be getting particularly glowing reviews.


they have a very particular house sound which i would say is  slightly warm but very clear


----------



## Wyville

tim0chan said:


> they have a very particular house sound which i would say is  slightly warm but very clear


I think SilverFi is a really fascinating brand, true artisan cables. I hope to get the chance to try one out soon, that would be really interesting!


----------



## flinkenick

Sylanthra said:


> What about SilverFi IEM-2 or IEM-X? I've read a number of cable reviews and SilverFi seems to be getting particularly glowing reviews.


SilverFi IEM2 is a very nice cable, it has a warm, but very natural sound. It doesn't sound like a copper cable, but also not like a silver. It has a cotton-sleeved design in cream colors and its connectors are a bit odd, so it's not your typical cable in terms of build. But a really nice sound that I think would fit the A18, been a while since I heard it myself though. Haven't heard the IEM-X, but my guess it is a little bit less warm and more resolved.


----------



## Vitor Valeri

*Review Effect Audio Thor Silver II IEM cable*

*



*



Link: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/19493/


----------



## junix

So, cable specialists.. 

Which cable would you suggest for *SP1000Cu + U18 Tzar*?

My beloved SP1000Cu just got back (from repair..), waiting for the U18 Tzar (3-4 weeks, argh!!?!?!).. my ultra-loved *EA Lioheart* is married to the *LCD-i4*, but I think it should also be a phenomenal pairing for the U18t.. (..will the i4 allow this?)

I'm listening.. (reading..) but let's be civilized and stay below 1k $.

Oh yes, here is the married couple (shortly after their honeymoon..):


----------



## Wyville

junix said:


> So, cable specialists..
> 
> Which cable would you suggest for *SP1000Cu + U18 Tzar*?
> 
> ...


I don't really know what would pair well, but how about doubling up and going for a Lionheart 8-wire? Or try Leonidas? 

Perhaps @flinkenick knows about the pairing, but SilverFi has some nice discounts going this month and that would give 20% off an R1 or stretching slightly an R2. 

@twister6 seemed to prefer pairing the U18 with copper cables like the PW No.5.


----------



## kubig123

Wyville said:


> I don't really know what would pair well, but how about doubling up and going for a Lionheart 8-wire? Or try Leonidas?
> 
> Perhaps @flinkenick knows about the pairing, but SilverFi has some nice discounts going this month and that would give 20% off an R1 or stretching slightly an R2.
> 
> @twister6 seemed to prefer pairing the U18 with copper cables like the PW No.5.



Can somebody tell me the differences between the SilverF1 IEM4 and the IEM-R1?


----------



## twister6

Wyville said:


> I don't really know what would pair well, but how about doubling up and going for a Lionheart 8-wire? Or try Leonidas?
> 
> Perhaps @flinkenick knows about the pairing, but SilverFi has some nice discounts going this month and that would give 20% off an R1 or stretching slightly an R2.
> 
> @twister6 seemed to prefer pairing the U18 with copper cables like the PW No.5.



Yeah, but then I switched to Lionheart with U18


----------



## PinkyPowers

twister6 said:


> Yeah, but then I switched to Lionheart with U18



I found Fourté doesn't need the warmth of copper if you give it the robust musicality of Leonidas.


----------



## junix

twister6 said:


> Yeah, but then I switched to Lionheart with U18


Good thing I already have a Lionheart waiting for the upcoming U18t .. 

I read both your reviews of the *Lionheart* and the *Horus, *great reads, thnx.
In a money-no-object universe (..) which one pairs better with the U18t in your opinion (strictly personal preference..)?

I suppose you didn't hear the Leonidas, as there are no reviews on your website..

As I "have a thing" for EA, my top contenders are currently *Horus *(..it's a bit out of the budget, but we're on head-fi..) and *Leonidas,* or just stick to my Lionheart which I already tried with U18t and really liked.


----------



## Wyville

junix said:


> Good thing I already have a Lionheart waiting for the upcoming U18t ..
> 
> I read both your reviews of the *Lionheart* and the *Horus, *great reads, thnx.
> In a money-no-object universe (..) which one pairs better with the U18t in your opinion (strictly personal preference..)?
> ...


Not sure if you are aware, or even interested in the slightly less ergonomic option, but @Deezel177 just got the Lionheart 8-wire in for review. When I spoke to Eric a while back, just after they had built the first 8-wire, he indicated that it was quickly becoming his favourite cable because it was a bit warmer and more musical than Horus. He gave some brief impressions here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-62#post-13752048


----------



## junix

Wyville said:


> Not sure if you are aware, or even interested in the slightly less ergonomic option, but @Deezel177 just got the Lionheart 8-wire in for review. When I spoke to Eric a while back, just after they had built the first 8-wire, he indicated that it was quickly becoming his favourite cable because it was a bit warmer and more musical than Horus. He gave some brief impressions here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/effect-audio-cables-thread.787717/page-62#post-13752048


Thnx!!
Well, this sounds interesting.. a better Lionheart (which I already like a lot..).

I'm in Singapore in January for a few days .. so maybe I should postpone this till then and trick Eric in to letting my try everything. 
I'll drop him a PM!


----------



## twister6

junix said:


> Good thing I already have a Lionheart waiting for the upcoming U18t ..
> 
> I read both your reviews of the *Lionheart* and the *Horus, *great reads, thnx.
> In a money-no-object universe (..) which one pairs better with the U18t in your opinion (strictly personal preference..)?
> ...



Lionheart paired up with U18, and i don't even mind 3.5mm termination since after fw2.0 update WM1Z single ended output quality scaled up!  Horus is "permanently" attached to TIA Trio, with EA 4.4mm adapter going into balanced output of 1Z (love that pair up!).  Fourte is mating with 1960 4wire, micro-details to the max, but pushing it bright.  Sadly, I have zero time to enjoy any of these pairs up because whenever I get a free minute, I work on yet another review


----------



## junix

twister6 said:


> Lionheart paired up with U18, and i don't even mind 3.5mm termination since after fw2.0 update WM1Z single ended output quality scaled up!  Horus is "permanently" attached to TIA Trio, with EA 4.4mm adapter going into balanced output of 1Z (love that pair up!).  Fourte is mating with 1960 4wire, micro-details to the max, but pushing it bright.  Sadly, I have zero time to enjoy any of these pairs up because whenever I get a free minute, I work on yet another review


Thank you for confirming my findings, I also really liked SP1000Cu+Lionheart+U18t (although I tried it only for 30ish minutes..).

But I can anyway pass by @EffectAudio in January, what can go wrong?


----------



## flinkenick (Nov 28, 2017)

kubig123 said:


> Can somebody tell me the differences between the SilverF1 IEM4 and the IEM-R1?


That would be @MikePortnoy, but unfortunately he does not come round these parts anymore. He has reviewed the IEM4 here on Head-Fi though..


junix said:


> Thank you for confirming my findings, I also really liked SP1000Cu+Lionheart+U18t (although I tried it only for 30ish minutes..).
> 
> But I can anyway pass by @EffectAudio in January, what can go wrong?


Another nice cable to look out for is the Effect Audio X Music Sanctuary Eos, reasonably priced and also pairs nicely with A18.


----------



## Deezel177

Not exactly high-end, but high-performance it is. Here's a review I reckon y'all should check out! 

Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos – Enter the Dragon


​


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> Not exactly high-end, but high-performance it is. Here's a review I reckon y'all should check out!
> 
> Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos – Enter the Dragon
> 
> ...



great review!
Now, I cannot wait to get mine (and the few other cables I ordered from Music-Sanctuary)


----------



## Deezel177

kubig123 said:


> great review!
> Now, I cannot wait to get mine (and the few other cables I ordered from Music-Sanctuary)



Thanks!


----------



## flinkenick

kubig123 said:


> great review!
> Now, I cannot wait to get mine (and the few other cables I ordered from Music-Sanctuary)


Which other cables did you order buddy? Eos is very nice, I think you'll enjoy it.


----------



## kubig123

flinkenick said:


> Which other cables did you order buddy? Eos is very nice, I think you'll enjoy it.



I ordered the Han Sound Venom, I'm very curious to compared to the Pwaudio 1960


----------



## Bosk

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but broadly speaking what sorts of changes will a cable typically exhibit in an 8-wire configuration as opposed to 4-wire?


----------



## kubig123

Bosk said:


> Sorry if this has been asked previously, but broadly speaking what sorts of changes will a cable typically exhibit in an 8-wire configuration as opposed to 4-wire?



Very tricky question, based on the few cables I ‘ve been able to try with different number of wire, it seams that the cable with higher number of wire has a wider soundstage and slightly warmer signature.


----------



## Deezel177

Bosk said:


> Sorry if this has been asked previously, but broadly speaking what sorts of changes will a cable typically exhibit in an 8-wire configuration as opposed to 4-wire?



In my experience, you'll find improvements in headroom, soundstage size, and background blackness. This means the music will play in a larger stage, and the increased headroom will compel you to say things like, "It sounds more open and effortless." Background blackness will also improve, meaning better instrumental resolution as well as an increased sense of transparency. There aren't many cables that shift in tone going from 4-wire to 8-wire; the only one I've experienced is the 1960s (though its coaxial design makes it 2-wire to 4-wire). But, I will soon be reviewing the 8-wire Lionheart with comparisons to the 4-wire variant, so I'll have more to say then.


----------



## junix

Deezel177 said:


> But, I will soon be reviewing the 8-wire Lionheart with comparisons to the 4-wire variant, so I'll have more to say then.


Looking forward to this!!


----------



## Bosk

Thanks for your answers! 8-wire cables are a direct upgrade from their 4-wire variants judging from your impressions.


----------



## Deezel177

Bosk said:


> Thanks for your answers! 8-wire cables are a direct upgrade from their 4-wire variants judging from your impressions.



Keep in mind that - depending on the brand - 8-wire cables will be less ergonomic than 4-wire cables. That, and the price premium usually stings too.


----------



## Wyville

Bosk said:


> Sorry if this has been asked previously, but broadly speaking what sorts of changes will a cable typically exhibit in an 8-wire configuration as opposed to 4-wire?


I can't speak from experience, but I had an interesting discussion with Eric (@EffectAudio) about that and he explained that it is quite unpredictable what an 8-wire version will sound like compared to the 4-wire. Basically the only way to know for certain is making the cable and having a listen. I find that really interesting! 

Here is a quick quote:


EffectAudio said:


> You're right, its a wild card. With 8-wires we are almost certain some frequencies will be boosted and technicalities evolve but in actuality, we have no idea how it would actually sound until we listened to it.


----------



## junix

Wyville said:


> I can't speak from experience, but I had an interesting discussion with Eric (@EffectAudio) about that and he explained that it is quite unpredictable what an 8-wire version will sound like compared to the 4-wire. Basically the only way to know for certain is making the cable and having a listen. I find that really interesting!


IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.

Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?


----------



## Wyville

junix said:


> IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.
> 
> Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?


Tough choice (and I wish I would have to make it for myself )! Certainly talk to Eric. I think they are extremely busy at the moment, but he will get back to you as soon as he can and is always a great guy to talk to.


----------



## Deezel177

junix said:


> IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.
> 
> Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?



The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart, but in terms of sound, the two don't share much in common. Comparing their 4-wire variants, I find the Lionheart more musical, bodied and rich, while the Leonidas is more relaxed and neutral-natural. The Lionheart has the richer, thicker and denser low-end, while the Leonidas's bass is well-known for its sub-bass rumble and dynamism. The midrange is where I feel the Lionheart has the clear upper-hand, with a more euphonic and harmonic presentation. Vocals and instruments sound stunningly vibrant, meaty and beautiful in tone. Overtones enrich energetic fundamentals and give the Lionheart a vintage tube-like voice. By comparison, the Leonidas's midrange is more transparent and less theatrical, but it lacks a bit of soul compared to its brethren. The treble is really a toss-up for me. The Lionheart has the smoother and less-pronounced treble, but because of its great extension, the presentation never veers towards darkness, incoherence or congestion. It's a natural top-end with admirable amounts of air and an impressive amount of clarity. The Leonidas, by comparison, has the sparklier lower treble, but I don't think it extends as far as the Lionheart does. There's a slight dullness in the upper treble that makes its top-end slightly bottom-heavy, which was never my preference to begin with. But, it is clean and clear, even if it's not my tonal cup of tea.


----------



## junix

Deezel177 said:


> The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart, but in terms of sound, the two don't share much in common. Comparing their 4-wire variants, I find the Lionheart more musical, bodied and rich, while the Leonidas is more relaxed and neutral-natural. The Lionheart has the richer, thicker and denser low-end, while the Leonidas's bass is well-known for its sub-bass rumble and dynamism. The midrange is where I feel the Lionheart has the clear upper-hand, with a more euphonic and harmonic presentation. Vocals and instruments sound stunningly vibrant, meaty and beautiful in tone. Overtones enrich energetic fundamentals and give the Lionheart a vintage tube-like voice. By comparison, the Leonidas's midrange is more transparent and less theatrical, but it lacks a bit of soul compared to its brethren. The treble is really a toss-up for me. The Lionheart has the smoother and less-pronounced treble, but because of its great extension, the presentation never veers towards darkness, incoherence or congestion. It's a natural top-end with admirable amounts of air and an impressive amount of clarity. The Leonidas, by comparison, has the sparklier lower treble, but I don't think it extends as far as the Lionheart does. There's a slight dullness in the upper treble that makes its top-end slightly bottom-heavy, which was never my preference to begin with. But, it is clean and clear, even if it's not my tonal cup of tea.


As long as I'm getting private reviews and comparisons..

Can you throw in the "standard" (calling it standard hurts.. such a masterpiece, I'll use quotation marks.. junix, you're talking to yourself again, stop it) Lionheart?


----------



## Deezel177

junix said:


> As long as I'm getting private reviews and comparisons..
> 
> Can you throw in the "standard" (calling it standard hurts.. such a masterpiece, I'll use quotation marks.. junix, you're talking to yourself again, stop it) Lionheart?



Uhh... do you mean include a comparison with the 4-wire Lionheart in the 8-wire Lionheart review? If so, there's no need to worry, I'm definitely doing that. The comparison I posted above is between the 4-wire Leonidas and the 4-wire Lionheart, as per the line, "Comparing their 4-wire variants..."


----------



## junix

Deezel177 said:


> Uhh... do you mean include a comparison with the 4-wire Lionheart in the 8-wire Lionheart review? If so, there's no need to worry, I'm definitely doing that. The comparison I posted above is between the 4-wire Leonidas and the 4-wire Lionheart, as per the line, "Comparing their 4-wire variants..."


Thnx man!
The start confused me a bit.. "The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart.."


----------



## Deezel177

junix said:


> Thnx man!
> The start confused me a bit.. "The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart.."



Ahh, gotcha. Apologies for the confusion.


----------



## flinkenick (Nov 29, 2017)

Few words about Eos, which I am also really enjoying at the moment. The difference between Ares II and Eos is the plug and high quality platinum-based solder. People might expect these are just minor parts in comparison to the wire, but they contribute a rather large portion of the signature, if I would estimate maybe around 30% or more. One must not forget these form the contact point between the cable and the other parts of the chain, and influence aspects like the resistance of the signal. Eos is not my first experience with the Furutech / Platinum solder. A while back I had my plusSound GPC reterminated from 2.5 to 3.5 by MS, and they used their favorite combo at the time consisting of the Furutech plug with Mundorf silver/gold solder. When I got the cable back, it had lost its characteristic completely; it transformed from a warm natural sound to a clear, open sound, pretty much void from warmth; in an a way it resembled going from Zeus to Zeus-ADEL for me. Other characteristics as the stage and midrange remained similar, but the difference in tone was striking. I sent back the cable, and they replaced the Mundorf solder with the platinum solder, making it have the same plug/solder as the Eos. While the GPC still wasn't nearly as warm as it was first, it had a smoother, more natural signature.

So moving on to Eos, which is a variation of Ares II, but with a different signature. Ares II is warmer, while its lower treble is also a bit brighter. Eos has a more linear signature that comes closer to neutral, due to a slightly more elevated mid- to upper-treble. Not to the extent of something like Horus or 1960 4-wire which really pushes out microdetail, but its finer detail is more pronounced than Ares II, making it more resolved overall. It is a bit of a musical variation of neutral in a way, that sounds detailed, but presents it in a smooth, coherent manner. Its mid-bass is slightly elevated, but clear on impact, just very enjoyable to listen to, while it maintains a similar airiness as Ares II. While its treble is smoother, it is also more transparent; just a lovely lower treble tone. Overall, Ares II is warmer and darker, although its timbre is _slightly _more accurate for instruments in comparison. Eos on the other hand is more versatile for me, as I also enjoy synthetic-based music. Unfortunately I can't tell whether or nor people will find it complementary or worth the upgrade to Ares II if they already own it, but I personally do. I don't find Eos good for its pricerange; I find it good regardless of its price.


----------



## twister6

junix said:


> IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.
> 
> Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?



Exactly, doubling the amount of conductors will decrease the resistance of the cable.  This is not even a theory, it's EE101   The automatic improvement - better efficiency where from the same source the sound should be louder.  Another thing that is a common sense when doubling the wires, cable becomes stiffer, less pliable, which is OK with full size cans when sitting down, but could be a bit annoying with c/iems on the go.  So, in general, you will see thicker cables with less efficient harder to drive high impedance headphones where 8 or even 16 conductors can make a difference, especially making them easier to drive when you sitting on the couch 

In terms of a sound improvement, you can kind of generalize it to a degree, but it will all depend on a pair up of a specific source with a specific pair of c/iems.  Don't assume the exact improvement in sound between two different iems.


----------



## twister6

... and another point I would like to make, since someone just ask me about the thickness of the wire vs doubling the amount of wires.  Thicker wire, for example when going from 26awg to 23awg, is definitely more cost efficient vs doubling the amount of wires which drives the cost up (especially when you are dealing with gold/silver material).  And in some cases thicker wire could still be more flexible than doubling the amount of wires.  But you have to keep in mind the skin effect where it's known that electric signal travels mostly through a surface area of the conductor, not through the entire cross section of it.  That is a reason why it's cheaper to plate the wires with more expensive material to get the sound improvement.  So, when you have a thicker wire you only increase the surface by a small margin vs when you have twice as many wires - you are doubling the surface area for the signal to travel.  This skin effect theory is also the reason behind litz cable which is a bunch of thin inter woven wires to increase the surface area for the signal to travel.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> ... and another point I would like to make, since someone just ask me about the thickness of the wire vs doubling the amount of wires.  Thicker wire, for example when going from 26awg to 23awg, is definitely more cost efficient vs doubling the amount of wires which drives the cost up (especially when you are dealing with gold/silver material).  And in some cases thicker wire could still be more flexible than doubling the amount of wires.  But you have to keep in mind the skin effect where it's known that electric signal travels mostly through a surface area of the conductor, not through the entire cross section of it.  That is a reason why it's cheaper to plate the wires with more expensive material to get the sound improvement.  So, when you have a thicker wire you only increase the surface by a small margin vs when you have twice as many wires - you are doubling the surface area for the signal to travel.  This skin effect theory is also the reason behind litz cable which is a bunch of thin inter woven wires to increase the surface area for the signal to travel.



This is absolutely correct, but almost every wire used is made by several thin woven wires, litz or not. A solid cable would be extremely rigid to be used with earphones. 
Therefore a 23awg cable would made by a higher number of this thin woven wires compared to a 26awg.

I think the main reason to go from 4 to 8 wires is that this solution is cheaper than engineering a brand new cable with a lower awg.


----------



## twister6

kubig123 said:


> This is absolutely correct, but almost every wire used is made by several thin woven wires, litz or not. A solid cable would be extremely rigid to be used with earphones.
> Therefore a 23awg cable would made by a higher number of this thin woven wires compared to a 26awg.
> 
> I think the main reason to go from 4 to 8 wires is that this solution is cheaper than engineering a brand new cable with a lower awg.



Yeah, there is a gray area now what considered to be just a litz (maybe all uniform thin woven wires?) vs multi stranding (a multi-sized stranding with a high strand count like in Horus).  Manufacturers are trying to get creative, trying engineer something different.  As you said, it's easier than re-iventing the wire.

And another one, bringing out shielding to a separate connector for an ultimate separation (like in HSA VENOM) - now you a partitioning the cable below y-splitter, less mobile but pushing a limit of more isolation and ground separation.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> Yeah, there is a gray area now what considered to be just a litz (maybe all uniform thin woven wires?) vs multi stranding (a multi-sized stranding with a high strand count like in Horus).  Manufacturers are trying to get creative, trying engineer something different.  As you said, it's easier than re-iventing the wire.
> 
> And another one, bringing out shielding to a separate connector for an ultimate separation (like in HSA VENOM) - now you a partitioning the cable below y-splitter, less mobile but pushing a limit of more isolation and ground separation.



yes,
I'm very interested in the Venom. I actually ordered one with a 4.4mm Furutech plug, but I wonder the real application of the shielding, for the 4.4mm plug the shielding is connected to the 5th pole, but with the WM1Z, if I'm not mistaken, the 5th pole is not connected to the ground.


----------



## twister6

kubig123 said:


> yes,
> I'm very interested in the Venom. I actually ordered one with a 4.4mm Furutech plug, but I wonder the real application of the shielding, for the 4.4mm plug the shielding is connected to the 5th pole, but with the WM1Z, if I'm not mistaken, the 5th pole is not connected to the ground.



Are you sure it's not connected to the ground?  Btw, I did a little test, plugged in 3.5mm cable to SE jack of WM1Z, and was able to check continuity of the ground pin to the chassis, meaning the ground of SE jack goes to internal ckt ground and tied to chassis which is an expanded ground   So, you better keep your WM1Z in a case without touching the chassis when listening from SE jack and walking across the carpet lol!!!  Otherwise you can get some ESD pops.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> Are you sure it's not connected to the ground?  Btw, I did a little test, plugged in 3.5mm cable to SE jack of WM1Z, and was able to check continuity of the ground pin to the chassis, meaning the ground of SE jack goes to internal ckt ground and tied to chassis which is an expanded ground   So, you better keep your WM1Z in a case without touching the chassis when listening from SE jack and walking across the carpet lol!!!  Otherwise you can get some ESD pops.



Good idea!
I just got a right angle pentaconn, I’ll check if there is continuity between the ground and the chassis.


----------



## noplsestar

flinkenick said:


> Few words about Eos, which I am also really enjoying at the moment. The difference between Ares II and Eos is the plug and high quality platinum-based solder. People might expect these are just minor parts in comparison to the wire, but they contribute a rather large portion of the signature, if I would estimate maybe around 30% or more. One must not forget these form the contact point between the cable and the other parts of the chain, and influence aspects like the resistance of the signal. Eos is not my first experience with the Furutech / Platinum solder. A while back I had my plusSound GPC reterminated from 2.5 to 3.5 by MS, and they used their favorite combo at the time consisting of the Furutech plug with Mundorf silver/gold solder. When I got the cable back, it had lost its characteristic completely; it transformed from a warm natural sound to a clear, open sound, pretty much void from warmth; in an a way it resembled going from Zeus to Zeus-ADEL for me. Other characteristics as the stage and midrange remained similar, but the difference in tone was striking. I sent back the cable, and they replaced the Mundorf solder with the platinum solder, making it have the same plug/solder as the Eos. While the GPC still wasn't nearly as warm as it was first, it had a smoother, more natural signature.
> 
> So moving on to Eos, which is a variation of Ares II, but with a different signature. Ares II is warmer, while its lower treble is also a bit brighter. Eos has a more linear signature that comes closer to neutral, due to a slightly more elevated mid- to upper-treble. Not to the extent of something like Horus or 1960 4-wire which really pushes out microdetail, but its finer detail is more pronounced than Ares II, making it more resolved overall. It is a bit of a musical variation of neutral in a way, that sounds detailed, but presents it in a smooth, coherent manner. Its mid-bass is slightly elevated, but clear on impact, just very enjoyable to listen to, while it maintains a similar airiness as Ares II. While its treble is smoother, it is also more transparent; just a lovely lower treble tone. Overall, Ares II is warmer and darker, although its timbre is _slightly _more accurate for instruments in comparison. Eos on the other hand is more versatile for me, as I also enjoy synthetic-based music. Unfortunately I can't tell whether or nor people will find it complementary or worth the upgrade to Ares II if they already own it, but I personally do. I don't find Eos good for its pricerange; I find it good regardless of its price.



Your impressions about the plug correlate with those of @twister6 ´s when he wrote about the psquare plug and that it contributes to the sound of the cable quite a bit (like greater soundstage). But the plug of the EOS is not the psquare plug, am I right? How do they differ? I guess the psquare it a bit "above" the one of the EOS, because they use it for their cable flagships?


----------



## Deezel177

noplsestar said:


> Your impressions about the plug correlate with those of @twister6 ´s when he wrote about the psquare plug and that it contributes to the sound of the cable quite a bit (like greater soundstage). But the plug of the EOS is not the psquare plug, am I right? How do they differ? I guess the psquare it a bit "above" the one of the EOS, because they use it for their cable flagships?



The Eos uses a Furutech plug. I believe it’s a full copper core and a rhodium plating. The Horus and Lionheart’s PSquared plug is based on Oyaide’s Platinum-Palladium plug. You can’t really compare how the two products rank based on how they’re used, because the Furutech plug was selected by Music Sanctuary; not Effect Audio. In terms of price and in terms of company reputation in Japan, Furutech products are actually more highly-regarded than Oyaide products. I’ve never A/B compared the two, but the general consensus says Furutech is the top dog.


----------



## chaiyuta

@noplsestar : Based on my experience, PSquared (in other word, Oyaide PP) provides lush vocal, more bass quantity than gold plated plug and eliminates any harsh treble but trade-off to smaller sound stage compared to rodium-plated plug. While EOS plug (which is Furutech CF-7254) provide the best of detail retrieval and enlarge soundstage, but trade-off to less bass quantity compared to thicker gold-plated plugs and Oyaide PP plug.

Can't be said Oyaide PP is the best of all plug. Both provide different sound tendency.


----------



## Deezel177

chaiyuta said:


> @noplsestar : Based on my experience, PSquared (in other word, Oyaide PP) provides lush vocal, more bass quantity than gold plated plug and eliminates any harsh treble but trade-off to smaller sound stage compared to rodium-plated plug. While EOS plug (which is Furutech CF-7254) provide the best of detail retrieval and enlarge soundstage, but trade-off to less bass quantity compared to thicker gold-plated plugs and Oyaide PP plug.
> 
> Can't be said Oyaide PP is the best of all plug. Both provide different sound tendency.



This matches my impressions of the Lionheart and the Eos, but of course, the difference in wire composition kinda makes the comparison unfair. But your impressions are very valid.


----------



## chaiyuta

Let's see once PSquared Plug becomes available to other EA cables for instance, Thor Silver 2+. I guess they might compensate each other well. hehe. 

P.S. Oyaide PP is sold as DIY part only 3.5 mm. 3-pole, therefore 2.5 mm. 4-pole version is limited to EA PSquared plug for EA cables only.


----------



## Deezel177

chaiyuta said:


> Let's see once PSquared Plug becomes available to other EA cables for instance, Thor Silver 2+. I guess they might compensate each other well. hehe.
> 
> P.S. Oyaide PP is sold as DIY part only 3.5 mm. 3-pole, therefore 2.5 mm. 4-pole version is limited to EA PSquared plug for EA cables only.



Yes, I guess that's why they don't have the signature green lines that the 3.5mm version does.


----------



## twister6

Deezel177 said:


> Yes, I guess that's why they don't have the signature green lines that the 3.5mm version does.



I have been told that only 3.5mm Psquare will have green separation lines.  2.5mm Psquare won't have those lines, and Eric confirmed that Horus comes by default with 2.5mm Psquare, the review sample I received didn't have green lines.


----------



## PinkyPowers

*In the Dominion of Dreams – A Review of the Effect Audio Leonidas*
 ​


----------



## hattrick15

PinkyPowers said:


> *In the Dominion of Dreams – A Review of the Effect Audio Leonidas*
> ​



Great review!  It's clear you love the Leonidas with the Fourte, but what do you think about how the Leonidas would match with the A18 Tzar?


----------



## PinkyPowers

hattrick15 said:


> Great review!  It's clear you love the Leonidas with the Fourte, but what do you think about how the Leonidas would match with the A18 Tzar?



I tried really hard to plug Leo into the A18, but since I don't have it, or even heard it, my efforts were rejected by the cable. I got the impression Leonidas wants nothing to do with those IEMs.

lol. No. I'm sure it would sound amazing. Without having any chance to verify this, it's just a guess. But Encore, Zeus, and Fourté all benefited, so...


----------



## Omega139

Hey guys,

I was looking to buy a new balanced cable for my K10's. I was looking for something in the 300-400 range. In terms of voicing, I definitely don't want something that will bring out more warmth and bass, since my K10's are already kind of warm. I was looking for something that would give me more clarity, kind of like my Andromedas


----------



## tim0chan

O731 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was looking to buy a new balanced cable for my K10's. I was looking for something in the 300-400 range. In terms of voicing, I definitely don't want something that will bring out more warmth and bass, since my K10's are already kind of warm. I was looking for something that would give me more clarity, kind of like my Andromedas


Plussound silver gold


----------



## Omega139

tim0chan said:


> Plussound silver gold


Thank you! I noticed they had several models. Which one would be the one you recommend?


----------



## tim0chan

O731 said:


> Thank you! I noticed they had several models. Which one would be the one you recommend?


Exo? Or the X. Exo is thicker than the X. Affexts the sound more. X is more comfortable


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was looking to buy a new balanced cable for my K10's. I was looking for something in the 300-400 range. In terms of voicing, I definitely don't want something that will bring out more warmth and bass, since my K10's are already kind of warm. I was looking for something that would give me more clarity, kind of like my Andromedas



I'd personally suggest the Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos. It's a clean, clear and controlled sounding cable with great spatial resolution and transparency. I think that's exactly what you're after. The PS Silver-Gold isn't a bad recommendation, but I've heard it and I found it to be rather warm and relaxed, so I don't know if that's the ideal buy based on your needs. The difference between the Exo and the X is wire count. The X is a 2-wire cable, while the Exo is a 4-wire cable. They're the same thickness (26 AWG).


----------



## Omega139

Deezel177 said:


> I'd personally suggest the Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos. It's a clean, clear and controlled sounding cable with great spatial resolution and transparency. I think that's exactly what you're after. The PS Silver-Gold isn't a bad recommendation, but I've heard it and I found it to be rather warm and relaxed, so I don't know if that's the ideal buy based on your needs. The difference between the Exo and the X is wire count. The X is a 2-wire cable, while the Exo is a 4-wire cable. They're the same thickness (26 AWG).



Hmm, how would they compare to the wagnus diamond dust, I hear those are good too. I’m kind of overwhelmed by all the options, so looks like I’m going to have to take a good look into this. In terms of TOPL, Incase I decide to dish out extra money, what would be the best?

Finally, I have a reference 8 cable for my andromeda, and I thought those were the best for that headphone. However, now I’m seeing that there are much better cables. Would it be a good idea to use the same cable for both my K10 and andromeda, or would it be ideal to use different cables for since the IEMs are voiced differently.
[Q I figured rather than buy two cables (reference 8 for andromeda and high end for k10, I can use the money to buy a really good topl cable to just use for both headphones.


----------



## Omega139

I guess I should clarify my question- what would be a good cable in the 700 range I can use with my k10 and andromeda


----------



## kubig123

O731 said:


> I guess I should clarify my question- what would be a good cable in the 700 range I can use with my k10 and andromeda



For that price range I would go with the Effect Audio Leonidas.


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> Hmm, how would they compare to the wagnus diamond dust, I hear those are good too. I’m kind of overwhelmed by all the options, so looks like I’m going to have to take a good look into this. In terms of TOPL, Incase I decide to dish out extra money, what would be the best?
> 
> Finally, I have a reference 8 cable for my andromeda, and I thought those were the best for that headphone. However, now I’m seeing that there are much better cables. Would it be a good idea to use the same cable for both my K10 and andromeda, or would it be ideal to use different cables for since the IEMs are voiced differently.
> [Q I figured rather than buy two cables (reference 8 for andromeda and high end for k10, I can use the money to buy a really good topl cable to just use for both headphones.





O731 said:


> I guess I should clarify my question- what would be a good cable in the 700 range I can use with my k10 and andromeda



Unfortunately, I've never tried Wagnus cables; they're extremely rare outside of Japan. Back to your request for more clarity, the Effect Audio Horus would be the best performing cable out of the whole lot if price was not a factor. Taking price into consideration, I'd struggle to call it worth the cost. In that case, the DHC Symbiote SP ver. 3 would be the best bang for your buck. It has great air and clarity, and its organic dynamic presentation and linear signature would work well with both IEMs.


----------



## Omega139

Deezel177 said:


> Unfortunately, I've never tried Wagnus cables; they're extremely rare outside of Japan. Back to your request for more clarity, the Effect Audio Horus would be the best performing cable out of the whole lot if price was not a factor. Taking price into consideration, I'd struggle to call it worth the cost. In that case, the DHC Symbiote SP ver. 3 would be the best bang for your buck. It has great air and clarity, and its organic dynamic presentation and linear signature would work well with both IEMs.


Would the effect audio Leonidas be the best option for a price range around 700?

Also, silly question. Is it bad to keep unplugging cables and switching headphones ? Will it damage the cables at all? I know it’s a rather silly question, but I was asking Incase there was some insider knowledge about such a matter


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> Would the effect audio Leonidas be the best option for a price range around 700?
> 
> Also, silly question. Is it bad to keep unplugging cables and switching headphones ? Will it damage the cables at all? I know it’s a rather silly question, but I was asking Incase there was some insider knowledge about such a matter



I've personally never been a fan of the Leonidas. Although it has a beautifully rumbly and dynamic low-end, its nonchalant midrange combined with its smoothed-off treble creates an atmosphere that strikes me as uninviting and sterile. Although its resolution is decent, it wouldn't be my first choice if clarity is what you were after. To me, for an all-rounder cable with a slight emphasis on clarity and transparency, the Symbiote SP is the better value.

Whether or not constant cable-rolling deteriorates your equipment is determined by the quality of both the plug and the socket. Nowadays, most CIEMs have robust sockets that can take months of occasional cable-rolling whilst retaining decent resistance. Also, if your cable's 2-pin connectors are sourced from Eidolic (as is the case with DHC) or Oyaide for example, you can bet they'd last a while too. As long as you plug and unplug carefully, no component will get damaged if they are of a decent quality. The worst that could happen is your IEM's socket will slowly loosen. Even then, it could take months if you cable-roll often, or years if you do it rarely.


----------



## lcasadonte

O731 said:


> Would the effect audio Leonidas be the best option for a price range around 700?
> 
> Also, silly question. Is it bad to keep unplugging cables and switching headphones ? Will it damage the cables at all? I know it’s a rather silly question, but I was asking Incase there was some insider knowledge about such a matter


You have more chance of damaging your headphones.  I have beyer t5p's that i was switching between balanced and single ended cables and the connectors have become smoothed out.  I would highly recommend against doing this frequently.


----------



## Omega139 (Dec 6, 2017)

Deezel177 said:


> I've personally never been a fan of the Leonidas. Although it has a beautifully rumbly and dynamic low-end, its nonchalant midrange combined with its smoothed-off treble creates an atmosphere that strikes me as uninviting and sterile. Although its resolution is decent, it wouldn't be my first choice if clarity is what you were after. To me, for an all-rounder cable with a slight emphasis on clarity and transparency, the Symbiote SP is the better value.
> 
> Whether or not constant cable-rolling deteriorates your equipment is determined by the quality of both the plug and the socket. Nowadays, most CIEMs have robust sockets that can take months of occasional cable-rolling whilst retaining decent resistance. Also, if your cable's 2-pin connectors are sourced from Eidolic (as is the case with DHC) or Oyaide for example, you can bet they'd last a while too. As long as you plug and unplug carefully, no component will get damaged if they are of a decent quality. The worst that could happen is your IEM's socket will slowly loosen. Even then, it could take months if you cable-roll often, or years if you do it rarely.



Hmm, the Leonidas definitely seems like something I want to avoid. In terms of features, i'm assuming an 8 conductor is a better option for the symbiote?


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> Hmm, the Leonidas definitely seems like something I want to avoid. In terms of features, i'm assuming an 8 conductor is a better option?



Eight-wire IEMs generally have greater headroom and more precise imaging. Although, if ergonomics (i.e. weight, stiffness, etc.) are important to you, a four-conductor wire will certainly suffice. Besides, you'd be paying twice the price at that point, throwing the whole $700-criteria out the window. 



lcasadonte said:


> You have more chance of damaging your headphones.  I have beyer t5p's that i was switching between balanced and single ended cables and the connectors have become smoothed out.  I would highly recommend against doing this frequently.



At that point, the best option would be to get a balanced-to-single-ended adaptor.


----------



## Omega139

Deezel177 said:


> Eight-wire IEMs generally have greater headroom and more precise imaging. Although, if ergonomics (i.e. weight, stiffness, etc.) are important to you, a four-conductor wire will certainly suffice. Besides, you'd be paying twice the price at that point, throwing the whole $700-criteria out the window.
> 
> 
> 
> At that point, the best option would be to get a balanced-to-single-ended adaptor.



Well I believe with the 8 conductor the symbiote would be at 765, unless I forgot about other options.


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> Well I believe with the 8 conductor the symbiote would be at 765, unless I forgot about other options.



Ahh, I stand corrected. DHC's prices are generally somewhat inflated overseas, and I didn't take into consideration the fact that you were local.  Then yes - if you don't mind the extra weight and girth - an 8-core cable is a great buy.


----------



## Omega139

Deezel177 said:


> Ahh, I stand corrected. DHC's prices are generally somewhat inflated overseas, and I didn't take into consideration the fact that you were local.  Then yes - if you don't mind the extra weight and girth - an 8-core cable is a great buy.



I really appreciate the help! Now I just have to see if the symbiote is indeed the best cable to buy.


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> I've personally never been a fan of the Leonidas. Although it has a beautifully rumbly and dynamic low-end, its nonchalant midrange combined with its smoothed-off treble creates an atmosphere that strikes me as uninviting and sterile. Although its resolution is decent, it wouldn't be my first choice if clarity is what you were after. To me, for an all-rounder cable with a slight emphasis on clarity and transparency, the Symbiote SP is the better value.
> 
> Whether or not constant cable-rolling deteriorates your equipment is determined by the quality of both the plug and the socket. Nowadays, most CIEMs have robust sockets that can take months of occasional cable-rolling whilst retaining decent resistance. Also, if your cable's 2-pin connectors are sourced from Eidolic (as is the case with DHC) or Oyaide for example, you can bet they'd last a while too. As long as you plug and unplug carefully, no component will get damaged if they are of a decent quality. The worst that could happen is your IEM's socket will slowly loosen. Even then, it could take months if you cable-roll often, or years if you do it rarely.



This is my personal taste, but I never liked to pair a warm iem with a high resolving cable, but if @O731 wants to follow this is the direction, than I would suggest to take into consideration also the Whiplash TWag V3, it's below the $700 but I can guarantee it's high resolving, I use it with my Encore and makes teh treble really spark ( somebody would say too much).

https://www.whiplashaudio.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=55_263&product_id=1148


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> I really appreciate the help! Now I just have to see if the symbiote is indeed the best cable to buy.



No problem, man! I'm just speaking from personal experience here. I'm sure there are many others on this thread who'd be able to help you just as much. 



kubig123 said:


> This is my personal taste, but I never liked to pair a warm iem with a high resolving cable, but if @O731 wants to follow this is the direction, than I would suggest to take into consideration also the Whiplash TWag V3, it's below the $700 but I can guarantee it's high resolving, I use it with my Encore and makes teh treble really spark ( somebody would say too much).
> 
> https://www.whiplashaudio.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=55_263&product_id=1148



The TWAg V3 is actually a great recommendation for clarity. Great shout!


----------



## Omega139

Deezel177 said:


> No problem, man! I'm just speaking from personal experience here. I'm sure there are many others on this thread who'd be able to help you just as much.
> 
> 
> 
> The TWAg V3 is actually a great recommendation for clarity. Great shout!




Hmm...I should mention that I do want clarity, but I definitely don't want something too sparkly. My K10 is a tad bit warm but is still nice, and my andromeda (at least with the reference 8 cable running out of my lenovo yoga headphone jack) sounded a bit too sparkly. However, I just got an SP1000 so maybe that will fix things up on that end.


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> No problem, man! I'm just speaking from personal experience here. I'm sure there are many others on this thread who'd be able to help you just as much.
> 
> 
> 
> The TWAg V3 is actually a great recommendation for clarity. Great shout!



Thanks,
Every now and then I'll get one right! 

I would suggest the 12 wire option, it add some air to the soundstage\ compared to the 8 wire.


----------



## tim0chan

O731 said:


> Hmm, the Leonidas definitely seems like something I want to avoid. In terms of features, i'm assuming an 8 conductor is a better option for the symbiote?


Just go


kubig123 said:


> Thanks,
> Every now and then I'll get one right!
> 
> I would suggest the 12 wire option, it add some air to the soundstage\ compared to the 8 wire.


Of course, it cant beat a 16 wire one can it....
Pwaudio 1960s 8wire(16conductors)


----------



## kubig123

tim0chan said:


> Just go
> 
> Of course, it cant beat a 16 wire one can it....
> Pwaudio 1960s 8wire(16conductors)



I think the 1960 8 wire is for headphones only, but i would have to sell my car to but it...


----------



## tim0chan

kubig123 said:


> I think the 1960 8 wire is for headphones only, but i would have to sell my car to but it...


Woops, missed it there. 
Im sure they still can do a 6wire(12 xonductor) version right?


----------



## kubig123

tim0chan said:


> Woops, missed it there.
> Im sure they still can do a 6wire(12 xonductor) version right?



They have an option for a 4 wire cable, a deal compared to the 8 wire option, only 2000 USD....


----------



## Omega139

Hmm...So right now i'm down to the Twag v3 and symbiote. Any other recommendations?


----------



## Omega139

Hmm..I just noticed my connectors for my K10 (2 pin) and my Andromeda (that twisted thing) are different. Would there be a way to circumvent this issue?


----------



## Whazzzup

Adapters


----------



## lcasadonte

Deezel177 said:


> Eight-wire IEMs generally have greater headroom and more precise imaging. Although, if ergonomics (i.e. weight, stiffness, etc.) are important to you, a four-conductor wire will certainly suffice. Besides, you'd be paying twice the price at that point, throwing the whole $700-criteria out the window.
> 
> 
> 
> At that point, the best option would be to get a balanced-to-single-ended adaptor.


On order.


----------



## Deezel177

O731 said:


> Hmm..I just noticed my connectors for my K10 (2 pin) and my Andromeda (that twisted thing) are different. Would there be a way to circumvent this issue?



Your K10 has a 0.78mm 2-pin socket and the Andromeda has an MMCX connector. As @Whazzzup said, "Adapters."


----------



## rtjoa (Dec 6, 2017)

O731 said:


> Hmm..I just noticed my connectors for my K10 (2 pin) and my Andromeda (that twisted thing) are different. Would there be a way to circumvent this issue?


Here is a picture of my adapters - 2 pin to MMCX and MMCX to 2 pin in straight and angle styles.
I bought them from Taobao using Taobao Agent. You can get them from Ebay but it will cost a lot more.


----------



## Omega139

rtjoa said:


> Here is a picture of my adapters - 2 pin to MMCX and MMCX to 2 pin in straight and angle styles.
> I bought them from Taobao using Taobao Agent. You can get them from Ebay but it will cost a lot more.



Can’t I just buy them from the same company I purchase my cable from?


----------



## Omega139

I’m heavily leaning towards the twag v3. I hope I’ll be able to return it if it turns out to be too bright. Does anyone have any other recommendations of a similar caliber ?


----------



## rtjoa

O731 said:


> Can’t I just buy them from the same company I purchase my cable from?


Sorry I don't know.


----------



## kubig123

O731 said:


> I’m heavily leaning towards the twag v3. I hope I’ll be able to return it if it turns out to be too bright. Does anyone have any other recommendations of a similar caliber ?



I really doubt that you will be able to return any cable (Whiplash, Double Helix, etc) if they are not defective.


----------



## Omega139 (Dec 6, 2017)

Is the twag v3 bright because it is silver? In that regard, is there another kind of material that would be a notch lower on the brightness ?

Also, silly question, could someone elaborate on what a 3d soundstage is?

Hmm, I figured I should also mention that I mainly listen to heavy metal and rock music.


----------



## kubig123

O731 said:


> Is the twag v3 bright because it is silver? In that regard, is there another kind of material that would be a notch lower on the brightness ?
> 
> Also, silly question, could someone elaborate on what a 3d soundstage is?



Usually cables in silver are quite bright (with some execption like Effect Audio), gold plated silver are more balanced, and then copper is warmer that the other 2.
But this is not a golden rule. 

If you are afraid that the Twag v3 is too bright than I would go with theTWau Reference V2, gold plated silver.
https://www.whiplashaudio.com/index...5_263&product_id=1197&sort=p.price&order=DESC

Regarding the soundstage you should read the introduction of this thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ran...ut-introduction-and-reviews-on-page-1.826876/


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## Omega139

kubig123 said:


> Usually cables in silver are quite bright (with some execption like Effect Audio), gold plated silver are more balanced, and then copper is warmer that the other 2.
> But this is not a golden rule.
> 
> If you are afraid that the Twag v3 is too bright than I would go with theTWau Reference V2, gold plated silver.
> ...



Awesome! It’s much more expensive then the silver, especially with the 12 conductor setup.

Is it a better cable overall ?


----------



## kubig123

O731 said:


> Awesome! It’s much more expensive then the silver, especially with the 12 conductor setup.
> 
> Is it a better cable overall ?



It's a cabe that has a different sound signature compared to the Twag v3. it's defiantly more balanced.


----------



## Omega139

kubig123 said:


> It's a cabe that has a different sound signature compared to the Twag v3. it's defiantly more balanced.



Does it provide any additional clarity and high end? I'm hesitant to get the Twag v3 because i'm afraid they'll be too sparkly. I was hoping the reference V2 would at least provide some additional clarity.


----------



## kubig123

O731 said:


> Does it provide any additional clarity and high end? I'm hesitant to get the Twag v3 because i'm afraid they'll be too sparkly. I was hoping the reference V2 would at least provide some additional clarity.



Yes,
I definitely add some clarity at the upper end, compared to a copper cable but without been as sparkly as the TWag v3.

You can also reach Craig Sanborn (csanborn@whiplashaudio.com) and ask for his feedback, I'm sure he can give you some excellent suggestions.


----------



## proedros

O731 said:


> I’m heavily leaning towards the twag v3. I hope I’ll be able to return it if it turns out to be too bright. Does anyone have any other recommendations of a similar caliber ?



what kind of DAP are you using with the K10 ?


----------



## Omega139

proedros said:


> what kind of DAP are you using with the K10 ?


SP1000


----------



## meomap

O731 said:


> SP1000


I demoed my k10c + dhc sp3 8 braided Silver with sp1000ss = excellent  combo.
Better than sp1000cu version, a little warm for my taste.


----------



## Omega139

meomap said:


> I demoed my k10c + dhc sp3 8 braided Silver with sp1000ss = excellent  combo.
> Better than sp1000cu version, a little warm for my taste.



Oh woops. I have the SP1000 SS. That's good to hear because I have a K10 too. Do you think it will make my Andromeda's too harsh, or should I just opt for a cable primarily aimed for my K10


----------



## meomap

O731 said:


> Oh woops. I have the SP1000 SS. That's good to hear because I have a K10 too. Do you think it will make my Andromeda's too harsh, or should I just opt for a cable primarily aimed for my K10


I think you should buy a good cable, balanced of course.  Then buy adapter for 2 pinsurance to cmx like the other gave you the picture.
It's close to $800 USD cable.
I have the Encore as well just recently so I don't have to change. 
But I have to send back yo DHC fix my 2.5mm connector,  broken. Bought alo ref 8 cable during holiday, still burnin.
 Wait to wait a long time. Might have to think 4.4 mm balanced as well. Thinking of DX200 amp4 or Sony 1Z.


----------



## ezekiel77 (Dec 7, 2017)

A bit off-topic, but here's a headphone cable built by one of the best, Peterek. 8-wire SPC/copper with Eidolic connectors and plug. Looks stunning!

He builds IEM cables too, so do pm him if you're interested. He charges very reasonably.


----------



## Omega139

Does anyone know how the Whiplash Twau V2, Twau V2Cu hybrid, and Twau V2 gold plated silver would compare? Also, how much of an improvement is the 12 conductor vs the 8 conductor?


----------



## Whazzzup (Dec 7, 2017)

As much as 4 to 8, which depending on the build composition, is marginal. But that’s what we strive for at this level.


----------



## Omega139

hmm..so would the extra price for the 12 conductor for the whiplash audio cable I choose be justified?


----------



## Whazzzup

Nothing in this hobby can be justified just recommended preference. The other issue is postpurchase dissonance, can you live with not knowing what the difference could have been. Technically folks are mixed with advantages of more braid, but better cables can be better than others all things controlled for. I use 8 braid dhc for iem that seemed sufficient but never listened to a 12.


----------



## Omega139

Would anyone know the difference between the twau v2 , v2 hybrid, and gold plated silver ?


----------



## kubig123

I would choose a 12 wire cable only if you go with the Twag V3, since the wires are very thin (30awg), while the Twag + Twcu hybrid cable is thicker (24.5awg) and the 12 wire combination would result to be quite heavy and not very flexible.
As a first cable don't choose anything too extreme.


----------



## Omega139

T


kubig123 said:


> I would choose a 12 wire cable only if you go with the Twag V3, since the wires are very thin (30awg), while the Twag + Twcu hybrid cable is thicker (24.5awg) and the 12 wire combination would result to be quite heavy and not very flexible.
> As a first cable don't choose anything too extreme.



thank you, would you happen to know how the v2 hybrid sounds compared to the gold plated silver ?


----------



## kubig123

O731 said:


> T
> 
> 
> thank you, would you happen to know how the v2 hybrid sounds compared to the gold plated silver ?



no, I never tried the hybrid cable, check with Craig, nobody knows his cable better than him....


----------



## Whazzzup

Gold is not a preferred compound in cables pure silver litz would be my first choice then copper


----------



## tim0chan

Whazzzup said:


> Gold is not a preferred compound in cables pure silver litz would be my first choice then copper


Not true. It may reduce conductivity but that is not the be all and end all of cable rolling. The effect audio horus has gold plated silver wires and it sounds out of this world. Its just a method of tuning sound


----------



## Whazzzup

tim0chan said:


> Not true. It may reduce conductivity but that is not the be all and end all of cable rolling. The effect audio horus has gold plated silver wires and it sounds out of this world. Its just a method of tuning sound


 conductivity/resistance are a primary concern for cable composition, never mind say type 6 litz versus a solid cable.....there are companies using nickel plated silver as well.. i wouldn't purchase a plated anything never mind gold, thats just me.


----------



## Omega139 (Dec 7, 2017)

Hmm. How about a comparison between just the twau v2 gold plated silver and a twag v3 hybrid


----------



## tim0chan

Whazzzup said:


> conductivity/resistance are a primary concern for cable composition, never mind say type 6 litz versus a solid cable.....there are companies using nickel plated silver as well.. i wouldn't purchase a plated anything never mind gold, thats just me.


There still is the plussound silver gold, rhapsodio 2.98 sipver gold and of course the silver widow from toxic


----------



## Whazzzup

tim0chan said:


> There still is the plussound silver gold, rhapsodio 2.98 sipver gold and of course the silver widow from toxic



My comment is philosophical in nature based on reference from a premier cable builder but not from any empirical evidence myself. However I have replaced several manufacturer stock plated cables but not with plated custom cables....


----------



## kubig123

Whazzzup said:


> My comment is philosophical in nature based on reference from a premier cable builder but not from any empirical evidence myself. However I have replaced several manufacturer stock plated cables but not with plated custom cables....



I definitely don't like any silver plated copper cable, but some cables of gold plated silver sound are able to add something to the SQ.
I would love to try the Horus, I have only the TWau and it's a really nice match to the SE5U (second to the PWaudio 1960).


----------



## jscmd2000

Basic question... is the gold plating on silver to reduce the skin effect?  To modulate, at least?  Does reducing the skin effect increase the overall conductivity?


----------



## Wyville

jscmd2000 said:


> Basic question... is the gold plating on silver to reduce the skin effect?  To modulate, at least?  Does reducing the skin effect increase the overall conductivity?


Here is a quote from a Q&A that Eric (@EffectAudio) recently did with Headfonia:
_
"Indeed, we do employ gold plating in some of our offerings and while it’s true that scientifically/theoretically speaking, conductivity is reduced; There is a certain sound characteristics and resolution that is brought into the chain when employing gold plating in varying amounts. Gold Plated Silver usually offers a warm tinge without sacrificing the resolution and often these gold plating has tremendous effects on the sound scape, imaging and transparency. I personally find that Gold brought in a certain dynamics and viscosity to the sound character that isn’t substitutable by any other materials we have available. I wish I could explain this in a more scientific way but I simply couldn’t; As the old audiophile saying goes: “Hearing is believing”." _- Headfonia link

The rest of the Q&A is well worth reading if you are interested in how modern cables are developed.


----------



## jscmd2000

Fascinating... thank you for that.  I will check it out!


----------



## meomap

Whazzzup said:


> Nothing in this hobby can be justified just recommended preference. The other issue is postpurchase dissonance, can you live with not knowing what the difference could have been. Technically folks are mixed with advantages of more braid, but better cables can be better than others all things controlled for. I use 8 braid dhc for iem that seemed sufficient but never listened to a 12.



Yes, dhc sp3 8 braided Silver is one of the best cable for its money.
Damn, waiting for DHC to respond is PITA.
I need my comp4 IC done and send out cables to fix or reterminate.


----------



## Omega139

Hmm..i'm still trying to figure out the best cable to purchase. I'm looking in the 700-1000 price range.

I'm comparing the cables in page 1 of this post listed under "700-1000", as well as a Whiplash audio silver gold plated. 

I currently have a K10 and an Andromeda, but i'm looking to buy something different in the near future. I'm still deciding between a 64 Audio U18t, Vision ears VE8, or an Empire Zeus XIV. 

If anyone could point me in the right direction for a good cable in my price range it will be very much appreciated.


----------



## Whazzzup (Dec 8, 2017)

Dhc symbiot elite 19 is 1400$ My first choice
Dhc symbiot sp v3 8 braid is 800$ my second choice
Long wait time


----------



## meomap

Whazzzup said:


> Dhc symbioti elite 19 is 1400$ My first choice
> Dhc symbioti sp v3 8 braid is 800$ my second choice
> Long wait time


Yes, I have sp v3 8 braid cable.
Very good.


----------



## Omega139

Hmm.. I actually think I should first figure out what new IEM i'm going to get before I decide on the best cable.


----------



## Whazzzup

Can only help with cable I use dhc into encore


----------



## tim0chan

O731 said:


> Hmm.. I actually think I should first figure out what new IEM i'm going to get before I decide on the best cable.


Lionheart pairs well with both the a18 and the ve8 and possibly with the zeus. Simple choice .
Or if u want more specific pairings ...
I think (not know) plussound t-metal should work well with the ve8,
A favourite with the zeus is the 2or 4 wire 1960s 2is darker4 is brighter
And possibly hansound redcore for the a18 (music sanctuary exclusive)


----------



## Omega139

tim0chan said:


> Lionheart pairs well with both the a18 and the ve8 and possibly with the zeus. Simple choice .
> Or if u want more specific pairings ...
> I think (not know) plussound t-metal should work well with the ve8,
> A favourite with the zeus is the 2or 4 wire 1960s 2is darker4 is brighter
> And possibly hansound redcore for the a18 (music sanctuary exclusive)



Thank you very much my friend. I'm going to have to first decide what IEM I am buying before I look for a cable, but the help is very much appreciated.


----------



## Zuon

Sorry for bringing this question into this thread, but I cannot yet make new topics in the forum. I recently upgrading from Sennheiser HD 558s to HD 600s. The stock cable of the 600s, to me, sounds more muffled than the 558's stock cable, and with a smaller soundstage too. I've been looking for an upgrade, and people on this forum seem to recommend Moon Audio Silver Dragon and Blue Dragon cables, but these are way too expensive. Does anyone know of any good cables for these headphones that won't break the bank? I have a Schiitt Fulla 2 Dac/Amp, in case that matters. And by not breaking the bank, I mean under $200, hopefully under $100, if possible.


----------



## Deezel177

Zuon said:


> Sorry for bringing this question into this thread, but I cannot yet make new topics in the forum. I recently upgrading from Sennheiser HD 558s to HD 600s. The stock cable of the 600s, to me, sounds more muffled than the 558's stock cable, and with a smaller soundstage too. I've been looking for an upgrade, and people on this forum seem to recommend Moon Audio Silver Dragon and Blue Dragon cables, but these are way too expensive. Does anyone know of any good cables for these headphones that won't break the bank? I have a Schiitt Fulla 2 Dac/Amp, in case that matters. And by not breaking the bank, I mean under $200, hopefully under $100, if possible.



Try checking out SG Audio Hive (https://sgaudiohive.com/). They're based in Singapore and they make excellent cables for the money. They've reterminated some cables I own and I can safely say their workmanship is up there with some of the best. I'm sure they can help you with cable recommendations as well.


----------



## zig3n

Hi ALL...

Is there any recommendation for the 2.5mm Balanced Cable that are not changing the sound signature of InEar Prophile 8?

I have the Effect Audio Thor Silver II, but it makes the soundstage a tad smaller, a tad more mid-bass & lower treble, less airy... more intimate sound...
Also I have the ALO Ref-8, but it makes less bass, less vocal body, brighter high, and about the same soundstage... more clinical sound... 

My DAP is Opus #2 and PP8 is already sounds great with the standard 3.5mm cable, but I looking for 2.5mm balanced cable without changing too much the sound signature.

Thank you very much...


----------



## tim0chan

zig3n said:


> Hi ALL...
> 
> Is there any recommendation for the 2.5mm Balanced Cable that are not changing the sound signature of InEar Prophile 8?
> 
> ...


Eros 2


----------



## zig3n

tim0chan said:


> Eros 2



Thank you so much for your input... I'm also thinking about EROS II... and I've asked Effect Audio, according to them, the best cable with PP8 is Leonidas... any experience between EROS II -vs- Leonidas? sound differences... Price is double tho... thank you...


----------



## tim0chan

zig3n said:


> Thank you so much for your input... I'm also thinking about EROS II... and I've asked Effect Audio, according to them, the best cable with PP8 is Leonidas... any experience between EROS II -vs- Leonidas? sound differences... Price is double tho... thank you...


Mostly the money XD, not too sure abt the minor differences but for the price the eros 2 is very good


----------



## zig3n

tim0chan said:


> Mostly the money XD, not too sure abt the minor differences but for the price the eros 2 is very good


Yeah... I think I'll try with EROS II since it's a lot cheaper than Leonidas... Thank you... Cheers


----------



## haiku

3 IC Cable Titans
From above to below
Brise Audio Murakumo6 3.5 to 3.5
Brimar Audio Labs OmniKing  3.5 to 3.5
Brimar Audio Labs Supreme Reference Monarch (The Grand Master)  Total True Balance Out (3.5 + 2.5) to 2.5


----------



## kubig123

haiku said:


> 3 IC Cable Titans
> From above to below
> Brise Audio Murakumo6 3.5 to 3.5
> Brimar Audio Labs OmniKing  3.5 to 3.5
> Brimar Audio Labs Supreme Reference Monarch (The Grand Master)  Total True Balance Out (3.5 + 2.5) to 2.5



how flexible is the Murakumo6?


----------



## haiku

kubig123 said:


> how flexible is the Murakumo6?



It´s quite stiff, but usable with a heavy Dap and Amp like my SP1000Cu and ALO CDM Tube Amp. And the sound is soooo sublime.....


----------



## Barra

*Null Audio Premium Upgrade IEM Cables Head-Fi Tour - Starting December 2017*
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nul...s-head-fi-tour-starting-december-2017.867643/

Yes, another tour. I am still toying with cables and my CIEMs. If anyone else is interested, these guys have very nice prices for the quality that they are putting out and right now are the only ones I know of that are doing CRYO. We have a full range of their cables in this tour, check it out.


----------



## tim0chan

Barra said:


> *Null Audio Premium Upgrade IEM Cables Head-Fi Tour - Starting December 2017*
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nul...s-head-fi-tour-starting-december-2017.867643/
> 
> Yes, another tour. I am still toying with cables and my CIEMs. If anyone else is interested, these guys have very nice prices for the quality that they are putting out and right now are the only ones I know of that are doing CRYO. We have a full range of their cables in this tour, check it out.


Afaik, rhapsodio also does it too


----------



## Deezel177

Here's something you guys might be interested in...

Effect Audio 8-wire Lionheart - The Golden Fleece

​


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> Here's something you guys might be interested in...
> 
> Effect Audio 8-wire Lionheart - The Golden Fleece
> 
> ​


another great review!


----------



## Barra

Having just kicked off two US HeadFi tours for upgrade IEM cables, I have had an opportunity to compare some very nice cables in different configurations - copper, silver, cryoed, 8 cable, thick, thin, ergonomic. These had been tested on a Hidition NT6pro, A18, Aether, 8.2 which all produced varying results. From the experience, I have developed a number of theories that need further testing going forward which I would love some feedback on your experience. 

*Theories up for Discussion*:

*Pairing*: I feel that there is an optimal ohm/resistance variable in pairing varying CIEMs that needs to be taken into account to gain optimal results. Cables that sounded great on one CIEM may sound like crap on another. This resistance conversation mainly is about soundstage and getting placement correct. For example, as great as the Aether sounds, the stock cable felt like the placement was three sections back. With the proper cable, the instruments/singers sounded full sized and like you are on stage detail wise. Others like my A18, while sounding like its placement is onstage, the right cable made the singers/instruments bigger, more full sized like with a full sized HP and more natural overall.
*8 Wire*: The 8 wire options were the real elephant in the room for me. In all cases here, this configuration felt like it unleashed the beast in the CIEMs providing the biggest, most natural sound. Going back and forth between the 8 wire and the smaller configurations made the smaller configurations feel like I was listening through a straw. The 8 wire made them feel like I was listening to a full sized HP. I am now of the opinion that the smaller wire size is the largest detriment to the performance of a CIEM. Makes me wonder what a 16 cable version would do - is there more to give or is the 8 wire full throttle in CIEM performance. It also make me wonder what more there is to give for full sized HP cables. What is your experience? 
*Cryo*: Not sure why cryo makes a difference, but I am surrounded by believers so I have had ample chance to hear cryoed gear from power cords to tubes to cables. The more I hear, the more of a believer I have become. Cryo commonalities I have found is this:
*Details*: The details seem to be pushed forward and pop more than non-cryoed cables. This is not in a bright way, but more in a clean up the signal sort of way.
*Transparency*: The signal just feels a little cleaner and wider with space between.
*Dynamics Pop*: The plucks feel bigger and clearer.

*Copper Signature*: The copper signature rummer is warm and fat-bottomed. However, I am finding copper to be indistinguishable from silver in many cases being bright or shimmery. While the cheap copper seems to fit the typical warm description, the better copper cables are all over the place and cannot be grouped. Are you hearing this too?
*Ergonomics*: I am finding the cable economics discussion to be all wrong. The most comfortable cables to me were the 8 wire cables that everyone warns against for being on the road. These larger cables didn't tangle and layed the best on me for maximum comfort and ease of care. The smaller so-called ergonomic cables were always tangled and slapping me in the face as they do not stay put. Worse, the so-called ergonomic cables were constantly catching on things since they wouldn't stay in place and cause my CIEMs to get ripped out of my ears on occasion. Even the stiffest of the larger cables would lay flat better to provide better active lifestyle ergonomics. Even better, the larger cables felt like they would last a lifetime with proper care where the smaller cables felt ......... temporary. What is your experience?
So what do you guys think?


----------



## Bina

Barra said:


> So what do you guys think?



That my 8 wire Null Audio Vitesse copper is so heavy, that it starts to hurt my ears if I use it without it lying on table.... Pretty answers the comfort x sound question to me.


----------



## rantng

Bina said:


> That my 8 wire Null Audio Vitesse copper is so heavy, that it starts to hurt my ears if I use it without it lying on table.... Pretty answers the comfort x sound question to me.



Then listen to music while laying back in a nice big chair. You get comfort plus the great sound from the pairing of great cables & IEM. Comfort & Sound.


----------



## Bina

rantng said:


> Then listen to music while laying back in a nice big chair. You get comfort plus the great sound from the pairing of great cables & IEM. Comfort & Sound.



Just too bad that EA Ares II, with much lighter 4 wire construction, beats this 8 wire easily in sound.


----------



## jscmd2000

I suppose ultimately, sometimes unfortunately, the issue of comfort plays into the entire picture, not just the sound quality.  I have a couple of stuff that fit into this category.


----------



## Barra

To be clear, while 8 wire implies more material, 4 thicker wires can actually have more conductor material in it. The purpose I am guessing for 8 wires is to provide more surface area as well as to soften what would be very thick material otherwise. So far I have not been able to test the value of surface area on a wire, but have been buying litz cable for this reason. Is there an optimal amount of conductor needed to eliminate the resistance / SQ issue? I can clearly hear the difference when it is reached unless my premise is wrong and there is another reason it starts to sound so good with larger cables.


----------



## Wyville (Jan 10, 2018)

Barra said:


> *Pairing*: I feel that there is an optimal ohm/resistance variable in pairing varying CIEMs that needs to be taken into account to gain optimal results. Cables that sounded great on one CIEM may sound like crap on another. This resistance conversation mainly is about soundstage and getting placement correct. For example, as great as the Aether sounds, the stock cable felt like the placement was three sections back. With the proper cable, the instruments/singers sounded full sized and like you are on stage detail wise. Others like my A18, while sounding like its placement is onstage, the right cable made the singers/instruments bigger, more full sized like with a full sized HP and more natural overall.


Apart from the technical discussion about what produces the signature of a cable (something I suspect is not just limited to resistance, but I will be looking into that over the course of the year), pairing, or 'synergy' as I like to call it, is indeed key to getting the most out of an aftermarket cable. Different cables affect the signature in different ways and emphasising one aspect can be great for some IEMs and problematic for others.

Great examples are my Custom Art Ei.3 and Rhapsodio Saturn. Both are warm and smooth, but while Ares II and Lionheart synergise very well with the Ei.3, the pairing with the Saturn turns these exciting IEMs into dull and lifeless ones by comparison. I suspect this is because the stock cable is an SPC (don't know for sure) and much of the excitement comes from the typical SPC characteristics (emphasising a V-shape). A while back I paired an SPC with my Ei.3 and there the result was the opposite. With the Ei.3 I feel the mids are key to their tuning and the SPC simply pushed the mids too far back, loosing much of what makes them so engaging to listen to.   


Barra said:


> *Copper Signature*: The copper signature rummer is warm and fat-bottomed. However, I am finding copper to be indistinguishable from silver in many cases being bright or shimmery. While the cheap copper seems to fit the typical warm description, the better copper cables are all over the place and cannot be grouped. Are you hearing this too?


There are indeed many different types of copper cables. Nic did that great mini-series of reviews of the No.5, Ares II and Zen, which are three very different entry level copper cables. I have the Ares II, Lionheart (which has a copper core) and just now have borrowed the PlusSound Exo Copper, and all three are very different sounding. The Exo copper is much closer to what is traditionally (stereotypically?) expected of a copper cable than Ares II. This is all without going into the really exotic cables such as the 1960s.


Barra said:


> *Ergonomics*: I am finding the cable economics discussion to be all wrong. The most comfortable cables to me were the 8 wire cables that everyone warns against for being on the road. These larger cables didn't tangle and layed the best on me for maximum comfort and ease of care. The smaller so-called ergonomic cables were always tangled and slapping me in the face as they do not stay put. Worse, the so-called ergonomic cables were constantly catching on things since they wouldn't stay in place and cause my CIEMs to get ripped out of my ears on occasion. Even the stiffest of the larger cables would lay flat better to provide better active lifestyle ergonomics. Even better, the larger cables felt like they would last a lifetime with proper care where the smaller cables felt ......... temporary. What is your experience?


Ergonomics is why I started looking into aftermarket cables in the first place. Personally, I find that the most comfortable cable I have is the Effect Audio 'Eline', a preproduction sample I bought a while back. It is very light, very supple and disappears completely when I use it. Ares II is by comparison quite heavy and pulls slightly when I am out and about. I do agree that the weight of a cable can help keep it in place better and it is less likely to tangle, but for comfort I do sometimes switch to the Eline (eg. when traveling). In fact, I expect that I will soon switch back to the Eline on my Ei.3 permanently, as it makes for a very comfortable pairing.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Barra : Long time no see such kind of discussion. My experience is not far from yours. Paring really acts a major role. It is nice to hear impression between Cryo-ed and Non-Cryo. I've never had a chance to tried with the same materials. It will be also glad if someone can share impression between QBT-ed and Non-QBT cable as well.


----------



## Barra

chaiyuta said:


> @Barra : Long time no see such kind of discussion. My experience is not far from yours. Paring really acts a major role. It is nice to hear impression between Cryo-ed and Non-Cryo. I've never had a chance to tried with the same materials. It will be also glad if someone can share impression between QBT-ed and Non-QBT cable as well.


When you are talking about QBT, I believe you are talking about using a run in machine to burn in cables. The person to speak to this is @johnjen who owns one and has used it to condition cables that we had also cryoed. So some of my cryo benefits that I have received may be supplemented by the run-in process that he provided. What he has told me, @johnjen please correct me if I am wrong, but the effects wear off over time so the process needs to be repeated on occasion. Again, paraphrasing an ancient conversation that is likely obsolete now, the burn-in process seems to open bandwidth in a cable offering higher capacity to the conditioned cable. Not sure if this means less resistance, but maybe higher current capacity not being bottlenecked for better dynamics. Again, this is better described by @johnjen 

Another interesting conversation would be tesla'd wires. I did have the opportunity to compare tesla'd wires in an interconnect shootout in a mini-meet in Seattle and found them my favorite of the bunch. They looked like the underdog given the girth of the other contestants but were a crowd favorite. However, at the time, there was only one company doing this and they were expensive. Need to see the state of the product line now.


----------



## Tanjiro

Just wondering if PW audio 1960s really worth its price?  I am very tempted to get one for my Zeus R.


----------



## tim0chan

moneypls said:


> Just wondering if PW audio 1960s really worth its price?  I am very tempted to get one for my Zeus R.


Maybe try a cheaper cable first to test the waters


----------



## Deezel177

moneypls said:


> Just wondering if PW audio 1960s really worth its price?  I am very tempted to get one for my Zeus R.



I find the 4-wire Lionheart pairs really well with the Zeus. It gives it a warmth and liquidity that gives the Zeus a more tube-like sound. The 2-wire 1960s is technically fantastic, but it has an attenuated treble, which you may or may not enjoy.


----------



## Tanjiro (Jan 14, 2018)

tim0chan said:


> Maybe try a cheaper cable first to test the waters


My Zeus R comes with Ares II which I like the sound.  The only draw back is it's SE not balanced.  Bought a Plussound EXO copper and I found it's a bit brighter than Ares II.  The cable is not fully burn in yet.  Will see.


----------



## Bina

If I'm looking for cable to go with UE custom socket, which manufacturers are available? I know Effect Audio has matching connectors, anybody else?


----------



## Deezel177

Bina said:


> If I'm looking for cable to go with UE custom socket, which manufacturers are available? I know Effect Audio has matching connectors, anybody else?



DHC, Norne and PlusSound also make cables with the UE socket.


----------



## Bina

Deezel177 said:


> DHC, Norne and PlusSound also make cables with the UE socket.



Didn't found it on DHC webpage.  Thanks for tips on Plussound and Norne, yet wasn't able to find any photos of them using these connectors, will probably send them email to confirm.


----------



## EffectAudio

Bina said:


> If I'm looking for cable to go with UE custom socket, which manufacturers are available? I know Effect Audio has matching connectors, anybody else?



Hey buddy, the UEPro connectors are not difficult to source, i reckon most if not all cable manufacturer will support that connector option 

-Eric


----------



## Wyville

moneypls said:


> My Zeus R comes with Ares II which I like the sound.  The only draw back is it's SE and balanced.  Bought a Plussound EXO copper and I found it's a bit brighter than Ares II.  The cable is not fully burn in yet.  Will see.


Yes, that is what I found too. The Exo Copper has (I think) a lower/mid treble lift that adds brightness and air, whereas Ares II to me has an even, more extended treble that maintains a slightly more natural tone.


----------



## tim0chan

Bina said:


> Didn't found it on DHC webpage.  Thanks for tips on Plussound and Norne, yet wasn't able to find any photos of them using these connectors, will probably send them email to confirm.


They just posted one on the plussound thread


----------



## Tanjiro

Bina said:


> Didn't found it on DHC webpage.  Thanks for tips on Plussound and Norne, yet wasn't able to find any photos of them using these connectors, will probably send them email to confirm.


I would avoid Norne as it's after sale service is very poor.  I had good experience with Plussound though.


----------



## SeeSax

Got a new cable in, which is an Effect Audio Leonidas + Thor Silver II "Bespoke" which was a demo unit, hence a great deal. I really love the pairing with my Dita Dream, on which I have been sort of struggling to find a good cable pairing. The stock one sounds fine, but I hated the ergonomics. My prayers have been answered with this new cable as it is the softest, most supple feeling cable I have ever come across. The sound signature is so detailed, but very smooth and it pairs wonderfully with the Dita Dream. I tried a few pure silver cables on the brighter side and they make the already-bright Dream a little too much for me. I'm a happy camper now and thought I would post some photos. I think it's two wires of Thor Silver II and two wires of the Leonidas gold-plated silver? Or something like that, maybe Eric can comment. 


 

 

-Collin-


----------



## EffectAudio

SeeSax said:


> Got a new cable in, which is an Effect Audio Leonidas + Thor Silver II "Bespoke" which was a demo unit, hence a great deal. I really love the pairing with my Dita Dream, on which I have been sort of struggling to find a good cable pairing. The stock one sounds fine, but I hated the ergonomics. My prayers have been answered with this new cable as it is the softest, most supple feeling cable I have ever come across. The sound signature is so detailed, but very smooth and it pairs wonderfully with the Dita Dream. I tried a few pure silver cables on the brighter side and they make the already-bright Dream a little too much for me. I'm a happy camper now and thought I would post some photos. I think it's two wires of Thor Silver II and two wires of the Leonidas gold-plated silver? Or something like that, maybe Eric can comment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello Collin, 

Thank you for your wonderful pictures. Indeed, this is a "Bespoke" configuration we offer to our customers on special request. There are a couple of popular bespoke order configuration with the "Leonidas / Thor Silver II" being one of them. This particular Configuration uses 2 wires of "Leonidas" and 2 wires of  "Thor Silver II" woven together. 

-Eric


----------



## SeeSax

EffectAudio said:


> Hello Collin,
> 
> Thank you for your wonderful pictures. Indeed, this is a "Bespoke" configuration we offer to our customers on special request. There are a couple of popular bespoke order configuration with the "Leonidas / Thor Silver II" being one of them. This particular Configuration uses 2 wires of "Leonidas" and 2 wires of  "Thor Silver II" woven together.
> 
> -Eric



Thank you Eric!


----------



## galangerz

Hello! First time poster here, I was searching for the answer to this question and couldn't find it anywhere!

I just got an upgrade cable from Null Audio (Lune), and instead of a memory wire, it comes with a rubber like sleeve which was pre shape to fit behind the ear. However, my ears are small and the loop the cable makes hugs no where near my ear and falls out to the side. Forceful shaping just doesn't work, the cable returns to its original shape. 

I was debating taking a heat gun or hairdryer to the cable to melt the rubber/plastic part a little bit and force the shape I want, but I don't know much about these things and don't want to ruin the cable. 

How can I shape my cable??

Thank you!


----------



## Deezel177

Kenneth Galang said:


> Hello! First time poster here, I was searching for the answer to this question and couldn't find it anywhere!
> 
> I just got an upgrade cable from Null Audio (Lune), and instead of a memory wire, it comes with a rubber like sleeve which was pre shape to fit behind the ear. However, my ears are small and the loop the cable makes hugs no where near my ear and falls out to the side. Forceful shaping just doesn't work, the cable returns to its original shape.
> 
> ...



The best way would probably be through gentle use of a heat gun or hairdryer. I’ve personally seen someone use fire directly from a lighter to reshape heatshrinks, so I think the devices you mentioned would work just fine.


----------



## PJBrownSkin

https://www.stereophile.com/content/crystals-first-cable-portables

Looks like Crystal’s releasing some non-A&K cables


----------



## kubig123

PJBrownSkin said:


> https://www.stereophile.com/content/crystals-first-cable-portables
> 
> Looks like Crystal’s releasing some non-A&K cables



So affordable...


----------



## PJBrownSkin

kubig123 said:


> So affordable...



I know...


----------



## junix

Deezel177 said:


> Not exactly high-end, but high-performance it is. Here's a review I reckon y'all should check out!
> 
> Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos – Enter the Dragon
> 
> ...


Well, I was in Singapore for work.. passed by Music Sanctuary.. and got the last one with MMCX.
Such a nice cable, exceptionally good value for money!


----------



## Deezel177

junix said:


> Well, I was in Singapore for work.. passed by Music Sanctuary.. and got the last one with MMCX.
> Such a nice cable, exceptionally good value for money!



Awesome grab! It is an exceptional cable, indeed.


----------



## eugene2

SeeSax said:


> Got a new cable in, which is an Effect Audio Leonidas + Thor Silver II "Bespoke" which was a demo unit, hence a great deal. I really love the pairing with my Dita Dream, on which I have been sort of struggling to find a good cable pairing. The stock one sounds fine, but I hated the ergonomics. My prayers have been answered with this new cable as it is the softest, most supple feeling cable I have ever come across. The sound signature is so detailed, but very smooth and it pairs wonderfully with the Dita Dream. I tried a few pure silver cables on the brighter side and they make the already-bright Dream a little too much for me. I'm a happy camper now and thought I would post some photos. I think it's two wires of Thor Silver II and two wires of the Leonidas gold-plated silver? Or something like that, maybe Eric can comment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep had that cable in my cart and removed it having second thoughts went back to purchase and I guess you got it,  nice!  I’ve been waiting impatiently for quite a while for my EOS cables for my Laylas since early December.  I guess they’ll get here sooner or later.  I’ll post some pictures later of cables I purchased recently for my Noble iems, including Effects Ares II


----------



## eugene2 (Jan 23, 2018)

After purchasing a couple of cables from OC Studio I’ve  had trouble justifying spending the big bucks on cable.  Both cables came in under $300.00.  Construction quality is first rate, I’ll comment on sound later.  I can tell you they have elevated the sound of both iems.  Their turnaround time is very quick also.  I recently purchased the Monarch V which is a flat 8 woven wire UPOCC silver and UPOCC copper cable and their Zeus UEX 8 wire 4th generation UPOCC silver cable.  I use the Monarch on my Noble Wizard Sage and the Zeus on my Encore.  Unfortunately they do not make a four pin connector for my Layla so I ordered a EA Eos (of which production is very slow).  On my Savant I have the EA Ares II.  I also am playing around with a Mimic cable and a cable by an EBay based company called LQI both of which are silver plated copper.
I’ve been thinking about purchasing a Brimar cable for my Layla, the least expensive recommended option was 1500. a gold, silver blend.  OC has a gold silver blend at 500. US...
An interesting article/interview with OC, this influenced my purchase...
http://earphonia.com/cable-reviews/introducing-original-cable-studio-cable/


----------



## Dan E (Jan 23, 2018)

Hi all,

I've just uploaded a new review about a relatively unknown cable, the Mad Cable ReMSG. Mad Cable is fairly new player on the market and makes splendid cables, definitely worth checking out! The cable subject to my review to is a hybrid consisting of 4 gold plated copper and 4 pure silver wires.

Special about the company is that the cables are definitely top of the line, but the pricing is way below other top tier contestants.


Here is the link to my review


Best,
Dan


----------



## kubig123

Dan E said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've just uploaded a new review about a relatively unknown cable, the Mad Cable ReMSG. Mad Cable is fairly new player on the market and makes splendid cables, definitely worth checking out! The cable subject to my review to is a hybrid consisting of 4 gold plated copper and 4 pure silver wires.
> 
> ...



Nice review!


----------



## olddude

Has anyone compared the Ares ll  with the Ares ll+?  I have this fleeting memory of seeing something somewhere but I tried a search and couldn't find it.  I'm thinking of going from single ended to balanced (my preference) and am curious if going to the + would be "interesting."


----------



## EffectAudio

olddude said:


> Has anyone compared the Ares ll  with the Ares ll+?  I have this fleeting memory of seeing something somewhere but I tried a search and couldn't find it.  I'm thinking of going from single ended to balanced (my preference) and am curious if going to the + would be "interesting."



Would this help? 

 

-Eric


----------



## olddude

Thanks.  Just curious if in gaining a bit more lows I'd lose any highs and/or transparency on my Zeus XR.  As well as what effect there would be on going from ll SE to ll+ balanced.  I love the upper end of the Zeus, just looking to gain a bit more oomph lower down.  Trying to figure out if the trade-offs are worth it.


----------



## ezekiel77

EffectAudio said:


> Would this help?
> 
> 
> -Eric


Hi Eric, what about Eros 2 and 2+, any graph comparing them?


----------



## EffectAudio

olddude said:


> Thanks.  Just curious if in gaining a bit more lows I'd lose any highs and/or transparency on my Zeus XR.  As well as what effect there would be on going from ll SE to ll+ balanced.  I love the upper end of the Zeus, just looking to gain a bit more oomph lower down.  Trying to figure out if the trade-offs are worth it.



That ^ you'll probably have to seek out opinions of people who have tried it as the chart is only indicative of the sound signature. If you have the chance to, have an audition of the gears would be best 




ezekiel77 said:


> Hi Eric, what about Eros 2 and 2+, any graph comparing them?



There you go~


----------



## Deezel177

olddude said:


> Thanks.  Just curious if in gaining a bit more lows I'd lose any highs and/or transparency on my Zeus XR.  As well as what effect there would be on going from ll SE to ll+ balanced.  I love the upper end of the Zeus, just looking to gain a bit more oomph lower down.  Trying to figure out if the trade-offs are worth it.



You could give the Thor Silver II a shot, then. It has a fuller low-end without sacrificing treble sparkle.


----------



## olddude

"That ^ you'll probably have to seek out opinions of people who have tried it as the chart is only indicative of the sound signature. If you have the chance to, have an audition of the gears would be best "

You folks coming to the CanJam LA in April?  No other way to try stuff, LA is NOT like Tokyo or Singapore where stores have lots of equipment to play with.


----------



## olddude

Deezel177 said:


> You could give the Thor Silver II a shot, then. It has a fuller low-end without sacrificing treble sparkle.



Afraid of silver with my SP1000SS.  The Moon Silver Dragon was too much with it, as was the Whiplash Hybrid that originally shipped with my Zeus.  Sparkle went to hissy sibilance with the Zeus and the Angie.


----------



## EffectAudio

olddude said:


> You folks coming to the CanJam LA in April?  No other way to try stuff, LA is NOT like Tokyo or Singapore where stores have lots of equipment to play with.



That's unfortunate, We'll be giving LA a miss this year. I'll be making NYC though.


----------



## Deezel177

olddude said:


> Afraid of silver with my SP1000SS.  The Moon Silver Dragon was too much with it, as was the Whiplash Hybrid that originally shipped with my Zeus.  Sparkle went to hissy sibilance with the Zeus and the Angie.



I've tried the Silver II with the Zeus and it's treble is really nothing to afraid of. It won't sparkle like - say - the DHC Symbiote SP or the PlusSound SPC. I'd argue the Ares II has more of an upper-midrange peak.


----------



## olddude

EffectAudio said:


> That's unfortunate, We'll be giving LA a miss this year. I'll be making NYC though.


Miss you by 3K miles..


----------



## olddude

Deezel177 said:


> I've tried the Silver II with the Zeus and it's treble is really nothing to afraid of. It won't sparkle like - say - the DHC Symbiote SP or the PlusSound SPC. I'd argue the Ares II has more of an upper-midrange peak.


Again, source is my issue.  The AK is very bright, and even though I like bright, it can get too bright.  The copper Ares ll brought the sound to a good place, just looking for a bit more low without losing upper end (graph shows a bit less detail up there, but again, source is everything).  It comes down to putting out $250 or so in the hope of getting what I'm looking for and being happy (and selling the Ares ll) or not getting what I'm looking for and selling a basically brand new Ares ll+.  Damn hobby.  

And I have no intention of chasing the EE dream to newer bester IEMs as the new models are released.  I really like the Zeus.


----------



## Deezel177

olddude said:


> Again, source is my issue.  The AK is very bright, and even though I like bright, it can get too bright.  The copper Ares ll brought the sound to a good place, just looking for a bit more low without losing upper end (graph shows a bit less detail up there, but again, source is everything).  It comes down to putting out $250 or so in the hope of getting what I'm looking for and being happy (and selling the Ares ll) or not getting what I'm looking for and selling a basically brand new Ares ll+.  Damn hobby.
> 
> And I have no intention of chasing the EE dream to newer bester IEMs as the new models are released.  I really like the Zeus.



The Ares II+ it is, then.


----------



## olddude

Deezel177 said:


> The Ares II+ it is, then.


Most likely, once I talk myself into it.  The good news is it's relatively inexpensive compared to all the other things I could be buying.


----------



## tim0chan

olddude said:


> Most likely, once I talk myself into it.  The good news is it's relatively inexpensive compared to all the other things I could be buying.


Or the Lionheart XD, it's a refinement of the ares2+


----------



## Deezel177

tim0chan said:


> Or the Lionheart XD, it's a refinement of the ares2+



The Lionheart doesn’t really add bass though; it adds note body and thickness whilst smoothing off the top-end (which @olddude indicated he does not want).


----------



## tim0chan

Deezel177 said:


> The Lionheart doesn’t really add bass though; it adds note body and thickness whilst smoothing off the top-end (which @olddude indicated he does not want).


Sorry, abt that, to my ears it did add a little bass but wasn't sure abt the treble as I did not have much time to try


----------



## Deezel177

tim0chan said:


> Sorry, abt that, to my ears it did add a little bass but wasn't sure abt the treble as I did not have much time to try



There's no need to apologise; everyone's entitled to their own opinions. The Lionheart's bass has a warmer and more natural tone, because of attenuations in the upper treble. That - plus the Lionheart's rich harmonic presentation in the lower-midrange - contributes to an *overall* liquidity, laid-backed-ness and organicity; not just in the bass. Having tried the Lionheart with the XR, it gives the Zeus a beautifully rich and organic overall tone, whilst sacrificing some sparkle and bite up top. I personally love the pairing, but based on what @olddude is looking for, it *might* not be for him.


----------



## olddude

Whenever I hear the words "smooth" or "smooth out," I know it's not for me.  I like plenty of detail and activity.  I want to hear everything going on up there (well, everywhere), as opposed to a wash or wall of sound.  The same goes for "musicality."  If I had to say what I like, it's "analytical."  I like being able to hear inside the music.  To me it's the parts that make the whole, not the whole that contains the parts.  If that makes sense.  

Talking about what we like musically (sound signature) is like talking about food or movies or people that attract us: all of us have different likes and dislikes, different parameters, different desires.  I might say, "ick, liver," and you might say, "ahhh, liver."


----------



## Kerouac

olddude said:


> Whenever I hear the words "smooth" or "smooth out," I know it's not for me.  I like plenty of detail and activity.  I want to hear everything going on up there (well, everywhere), as opposed to a wash or wall of sound.  The same goes for "musicality."  If I had to say what I like, it's "analytical."  I like being able to hear inside the music.  To me it's the parts that make the whole, not the whole that contains the parts.  If that makes sense.
> 
> Talking about what we like musically (sound signature) is like talking about food or movies or people that attract us: all of us have different likes and dislikes, different parameters, different desires.  I might say, "ick, liver," and you might say, "ahhh, liver."









When you're into a bright and analytical soundsignature, you probaby made the right choice with the SP1000 SS, instead of the Cu one


----------



## eugene2

olddude said:


> Most likely, once I talk myself into it.  The good news is it's relatively inexpensive compared to all the other things I could be buying.


I use the Ares II with my Noble Savant, very nice sparkle up top without losing Bass weight.  Bass definition seems to improve over stock cable.  My favorite cable right now is the OC Cable Zeus UEX 8 strand silver, I’m using with my Encore.  Microphonics are very good, not sibilant, quite revealing airy, instrumental separation very good, bass instruments seem more defined, vocals airy and well rendered.  I’m impressed with this cable.  Settles nicely around my ears and weight for me is a non issue.
I’m heading to Tokyo a week from Thursday will seek out some shops to try cables and iems, will report on my findings.


----------



## eugene2 (Jan 24, 2018)

One more thing, this morning I sat next to my big rig which is pretty resolving and swapped back and forth between the OC 8 wire Zeus UE X silver, the 8 wire silver and copper Monarch, the Ares II, and a Mimic cable silver plated copper sporting a Furutech A/D2 TRS.
The Mimic has some construction issues and Mimic requested that I return them so they could redo the ergonomics, and fix the pins near the earphone.  They are very light but do not roll behind the ears.  The other cables are well constructed and look very nice to boot.
I picked four tracks Jacinta, “Harlem Nocturne”; Cassandra Wilson, “Strange Fruit”; Macy Gray, “Annabelle” and Holly Cole, Larger Than Life.” Holly Cole and Cassandra Wilson were both DSD recordings.  The reason I picked those four -  soundstage, bass weight, tonality, air especially around vocals, brass and woodwinds and pretty simple recordings.
I listened to each track several times with each cable to diminish the dreaded placebo effect, each time focusing on a different aspect of the recording (i.e. soundstage, air, etc).
All cables were better than the stock cable in terms of microphonics, with the Effect Ares and Mimic being slightly better than their 8 wire competitors.  Walking around I could hear slight cable movements through both OC cables, which I didn’t hear through the lower gauge lower wire count Mimic or Effect cable.  Small price to pay for what you get back in musicality.
Microphonics: Mimic 4 of 5; Ares II 4 of 5; OC (both) 3 of 5
Both the Mimic and Effect Ares II seemed the more “spotlighted” or brighter cable.  Ever so slightly more sibilant.  Treble seemed to extend slightly more on the Ares, more experimentation is need with the Zeus, wasn’t sure if I heard a slight dulling of cymbals, though for me less fatiguing.
Treble/Sibilance on Vocals: Mimic 3 of 5;  Ares II 3.5; OC Monarch 4; Zeus 3.75
Stage width on the Mimic was much narrower than any other cable “Anabelle” is a great test of stage width as the opening guitar riff seemed right at my left ear.  The Monarch and Ares II outside my left ear and the Zeus further outside my left ear.
Stage width: Mimic 2.5; Ares II 3.5; Monarch 3.5; Zeus 4
I look at bass notes a couple of ways, especially an upright bass, how the fingers squeak across the strings, listening to the texture and detail as the instrument is plucked, bass weight and it’s positioning in the stage.  The higher gauge/ lower wire count cables had less weight but showed well in delineating the instrument in pacing and all the other characteristics.
Bass:  Mimic 3.5; Ares II 3.5; Monarch 4; Zeus 4
Brass instruments seem to take on a warmer texture through both OC cables.  Though their appeared to be a slight annoying resonance on brass instruments with the Ares II and Monarch (to be fair further experimentation is needed, they may have brought out a fault in the recording).  My instrument the sax seemed to sound more natural through the OC cables maybe due to the slight brightness as demonstrated by both the Effect Ares and the  Mimic Cable.  It could be a matching issue, when I get time I’ll try the same experiment with the Wizard Sage which I believe is slightly warmer than the Encore. Vocals sounded natural and slightly more forward in the OC cables, while a slight dryness showed up in the Mimic, the Ares was similar to the OC cables though slightly brighter.
Midrange Mimic 3; Ares II 3.75; Monarch 4.25; Zeus 4
I didn’t want to write a full blown review as the time spent wasn’t enough, just some thoughts based on listening this morning.
Sooner or later I will get my hands on EA Horus or Lionheart and maybe a Brimar cable.  Hopefully I’ll run into something in Tokyo before I head up to ski Niseko.


----------



## chaiyuta

@eugene2 : Could you inform me what plug/connector model are your oc cables used?


----------



## eugene2 (Jan 24, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @eugene2 : Could you inform me what plug/connector model are your oc cables used?


OC 35cfrt on both 2.5 mm on Monarch 3.5 mm on Zeus
Next time I’ll probably request a Furutech or Oyaide P3


----------



## Wyville

For anyone who is interested, I just put up my full review of Lionheart:

*Effect Audio Lionheart - A Maestro Of Harmony*

​


----------



## eugene2 (Jan 28, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> I've tried the Silver II with the Zeus and it's treble is really nothing to afraid of. It won't sparkle like - say - the DHC Symbiote SP or the PlusSound SPC. I'd argue the Ares II has more of an upper-midrange peak.


I missed this before, maybe that mid peak is what I’m hearing with the Noble Encore Ares II combo.  The Ares seems to have more synergy with the Noble Savant, I’m sitting in Starbucks listening to the combo, through an old iPod, vorzuge amp and mojo.  This is a great combo at the price.  Deezel you have a good ear.
After I receive my Eos for my Layla, I also order Mimics best combo including plugs Furutech to compare the two.  Hopefully if I can’t find anything in Tokyo I can go to NY to try the top end cable on display, if these two cables can’t tame the mighty Layla’s .  I’ll be looking for the Horus and Lionheart...
If you have any suggestions I’m open...
Also, I just bought a Hugo2 should be here before I leave, makes for an interesting portable rig for my trip.


----------



## Deezel177

eugene2 said:


> I missed this before, maybe that mid peak is what I’m hearing with the Noble Encore Ares II combo.  The Ares seems to have more synergy with the Noble Savant, I’m sitting in Starbucks listening to the combo, through an old iPod, vorzuge amp and mojo.  This is a great combo at the price.  Deezel you have a good ear.
> After I receive my Eos for my Layla, I also order Mimics best combo including plugs Furutech to compare the two.  Hopefully if I can’t find anything in Tokyo I can go to NY to try the top end cable on display, if these two cables can’t tame the mighty Layla’s .  I’ll be looking for the Horus and Lionheart...
> If you have any suggestions I’m open...
> Also, I just bought a Hugo2 should be here before I leave, makes for an interesting portable rig for my trip.



If you're looking for a cable that can "tame" an IEM and reduce any sense of peakiness or sibilance, then I'd recommend the Lionheart. It's a cable that introduces liquidity, warmth and smoothness for a more organic overall signature, whilst maintaining excellent clarity and dynamic punch.


----------



## Bina

Since there is few fans of PW Audio cables in this thread, you might be interested in new CIEMs brand from Hong Kong, where PW Audio plays really big part.
You can read more about it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/flicker-ear-ciems-in-collaboration-with-pw-audio.870915/


----------



## olddude

I splurged on a slight upgrade of my Effect Audio Ares ll single-ended cable and got an Ares ll+ balanced (2.5) to go with my Zeus.  I ordered it January 24th and it arrived January 30th (I paid for the quicker delivery option), can't complain about that kind of service. Cost was $219 (plus the shipping).  Pretty low-end for this place, but about $70 over the Ares ll, which is already an excellent cable when paired with the Zeus.  The wire is thicker and a bit darker in color, the sound is a bit warmer (you don't have to strain to hear that it is warmer), I needed to turn down the volume a bit (using the AK SP1000SS) as the perceptual level seemed to go up (most likely as a result of the added warmth).  Notes seem a bit thicker, transparency is slightly lessened due to that thickness, there's more timbre, detail, especially in the upper mids and trebles is still there.  The bass and lower mid notes aren't dense, just a bit more...there.  It's always a trade-off, in this case give up a bit of that glass-like transparency for a bit more oomph.  So far I'm pleased with it.  Build quality is excellent, I'm not hearing any microphonics (though I was sitting while going through 20-30 song parts just listening for changes from the older cable).  I'll know more in a few days, as I walk with it and get my brain burned in to the new sound.  If you have a Zeus and want a bit more timbre and lower end without giving up mids and highs, this might be a good way to go.  And, again, this is with an SP1000SS, which has a ton of detail and is not a warmth monster.  Other sources might produce a different result.


----------



## eddie0817

The cables in my hand now.

Toxic cables
Medusa 17
GW 24 8 wire
GSP 8 wire
BW22 v2

Effect audio
Thor ll/+
Ares ll

Han sound audio
Venom 
Aurora
Zen 8
Agni

OC studio
AuX 8 wire
Monarch

Pwaudio 
1960s 4 wire

Whiplash
Twau V2 8 wire

Here is my cables reviews, sorry type in Chinese, kindly let me know if you want to know how the cable comparison.
https://post76.hk/thread-265879-1-1.html
https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=180&t=4924829

Thanks

Eddie


----------



## Ginjo

Would like a recommendation for my upcoming pair of trio's.

Think I read twister6 stating the horus is his preferred choice. I was wondering if anyone knew a more budget friendly version of the horus.

One that seems to bring out more details if I'm not mistaken. 

Budget of about $500 give or take.


----------



## artpiggo

Ginjo said:


> Would like a recommendation for my upcoming pair of trio's.
> 
> Think I read twister6 stating the horus is his preferred choice. I was wondering if anyone knew a more budget friendly version of the horus.
> 
> ...



Should be Lionheart


----------



## twister6

Ginjo said:


> Would like a recommendation for my upcoming pair of trio's.
> 
> Think I read twister6 stating the horus is his preferred choice. I was wondering if anyone knew a more budget friendly version of the horus.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't call it exactly a preferred choice, I just stated that I hear the most noticeable change using it  The higher you go in cable pricing, the more you are stepping in to the territory of diminishing returns. I switch cables all the time, but now have a stock one with Trio. Horus is paired up with U18t.

To be honest, I actually digging stock cable with Trio now. You haven't even received Trio yet, and already looking for a cable upgrade?  My recommendation is to take small steps at a time. Don't upgrade anything until Trio is properly burned in, and you spend time getting to know its sound and pair up synergy with a stock cable and your preferred source. Then, go from there


----------



## Ginjo

twister6 said:


> I wouldn't call it exactly a preferred choice, I just stated that I hear the most noticeable change using it  The higher you go in cable pricing, the more you are stepping in to the territory of diminishing returns. I switch cables all the time, but now have a stock one with Trio. Horus is paired up with U18t.
> 
> To be honest, I actually digging stock cable with Trio now. You haven't even received Trio yet, and already looking for a cable upgrade?  My recommendation is to take small steps at a time. Don't upgrade anything until Trio is properly burned in, and you spend time getting to know its sound and pair up synergy with a stock cable and your preferred source. Then, go from there



Haha! Good to hear the spc is getting some love too. I just love experimenting and having everything ready to try. Waiting 5-6 weeks gets you thinking crazy things I guess


----------



## Dan E

kubig123 said:


> Nice review!


thanks! hope you enjoyed the read


----------



## olddude (Feb 4, 2018)

I thought I might take some time to more clearly compare the Effect Audio Ares ll and Ares ll+ cables, as someone asked for a more direct comparison.  Please keep in mind that this comparison is based on using the cables with an Astell&Ultima SP1000SS and a Zeus XR set to X.  Also, the ll is a single-ended 3.5 and the ll+ is a balanced 2.5.  I listen to 60’s and 70’s rock, for the most part, so factor that in as well. 


The Ares ll is very transparent.  It’s possible to hear where all instruments/voices are in the soundstage at all times, and they never seem to be over or under each other as you listen.  Everything is distinct.  Even though the Ares ll is copper, it has quite a bit of detail, especially in the upper end, which is really well-presented by the Zeus.  Everything is clear, with no sibilance or flaring.  Mids and upper mids are very clear, especially with acoustic guitars.  You can hear all of the strings being strummed, and also hear the squeaking of flesh across fret boards.  The upper bass is strong and clean, and individual notes are easy to pick out.  Lower bass is quite apparent when the source music has it, but is fairly absent when not there.  Sub-bass can be heard when presented, but it’s not going to shake you out of your chair.  You won’t hear the “thump” physically, the way some bass-centric IEMs present bass.  The word I would use for the Ares ll is “neutral.”  While not reference, it seems to present all frequencies with equal clarity.  Sound stage is quite wide (I hear it at the “rear” of my ears), but it certainly doesn’t wrap all the way around me.  I find the cable sound signature bright and lively, very analytical, crisp and clean.  The cable itself is rather thin  (when compared to the ll+) but quite beautiful.  Ergonomically, it’s a joy.  I walk with it with no problems.


I bought the Ares ll+ hoping to gain a bit more lower end and timbre.  Well, it does that in spades.  There is now a bass floor present in the music pretty much all of the time.  It doesn’t rumble like bass-centric IEMs do, but the bass is there!  Always.  It adds timbre across bass and mids (and to a degree, upper mids as well).  When I first plugged it in, I had to turn down the volume of my Astell from 60 to 50, as it is perceptually louder.  The sound stage is very slightly less wide.  Upper end still comes across the way is does with the ll, but everything below it is fuller.  Instead of being transparent, the music now is more solid.  Everything being played can still be heard, but the sense of lightness and, to a degree, air is replaced with a thicker wave of music.  I would describe it as darker and warmer in comparison with the ll.  Some folks here use the terms “smooth” and “musical,” and that seems to be what is happening here.  I could make the poor simile that the ll is like floating in air, and the ll+ is like floating in water.   The cable is considerably thicker, a bit darker in color, and somewhat stiffer than the ll.  However, when walking with it there were no problems with cable noise.  It’s just a heavier, more robust cable.


While I like the ll+, I found that it took away what, to me, was so special about the Zeus/Astell combo.  I realize that to others it might be exactly what they are looking for.  We all seem to have different ideas of the “right sound,” which is of course what makes this hobby so much fun, so aggravating and so expensive.  I hope this mini-review helps others who are perhaps looking to buy one of these cables.


----------



## EagleWings

My review of the PW Audio No.5 Cable:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/pw-audio-no-5-iem-cable.22703/reviews#review-19839


----------



## Sheep1234

Currently I use the exo series silver plated copper from Plussound with a 2.5mm balanced plug. I'd like to use it on a 3.5 mm output aswell. Would an adapter reduce the soundquality of the cable and which adapter would be good for my needs?


----------



## Wyville

Sheep1234 said:


> Currently I use the exo series silver plated copper from Plussound with a 2.5mm balanced plug. I'd like to use it on a 3.5 mm output aswell. Would an adapter reduce the soundquality of the cable and which adapter would be good for my needs?


The best option is the shortest possible adapter. If you stay with PlusSound you can go for something like the 'Micro Series Termination Adapter' listed here:
http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/interconnect.html
In the customisation options it can be made to pair optimally with your silver plated copper. It should minimise any effect on sound quality (which I believe to be minimal with such a short adapter to begin with). Of course there is a difference between balanced and SE out, but that has nothing to do with the adapter.


----------



## appleidappleid

Hi, I have just posted a review comparing two flagship cables from Mad Cable, a relatively new cable maker from Hong Kong. Dan has posted an excellent review on the Re-MSG (hybrid of 4x gold plated copper and 4x silver). I agree totally with Dan's review and thought it would be useful if I compare the Re-MSG with the Re-Mirror (hybrid of 4x gold plated silver and 4x silver). I feel both are amazing cables at their price point. Please let me know if you want to know more about them. 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/19841/


----------



## fabian.1991 (Feb 8, 2018)

Hey guys,

At first, sorry, my english is not the best!

I am new here and i‘ve got an important question.
Yesterday i bought my first high quality headphones. The Fostex TH-610.

But I want to connect them more easily to my iPhone 7 Plus. The original cable is way to long and has a 1/4 jack. (At the moment i use the original cable, an adapter from 1/4 to 1/8 jack and the 1/8 to lightning jack. Thats too much of cable and connectors and adapters and hassle for mobile use.

I found a suitable cable which i can use at Lawton Audio, but, to be honest, its a little too expensive for me (275 dollar incl. delivery).
I dont want the best high quality product on the market, i just want a cable which will fit at the one side of my Fostex, just 1,5 oder 2,0 Meters long with a 1/8 jack.

I searched a long time, but i didnt found anything. I read that the sennheiser 650 cable could fit, but the diameters of the pins is slightly different and i dont want to crush the connectors.

Please, i need a good advice to buy a good cable!

Best wishes from germany ! 

Fabian


----------



## Wyville

Copied from the PlusSound thread, but I felt it would be well worth sharing here as well.

Yesterday I got in the Exo Silver + Gold with new PS Insulation and I am very impressed by the improvement in the ergonomics, it is an amazingly supple cable! Early days on the sound, but initial impressions are very good: A wonderfully bright and clear sound without any signs of harshness or peakiness in the treble and a very tight and impactful bass.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> Copied from the PlusSound thread, but I felt it would be well worth sharing here as well.
> 
> Yesterday I got in the Exo Silver + Gold with new PS Insulation and I am very impressed by the improvement in the ergonomics, it is an amazingly supple cable! Early days on the sound, but initial impressions are very good: A wonderfully bright and clear sound without any signs of harshness or peakiness in the treble and a very tight and impactful bass.



Awesome, man! I got a *very* similar-looking cable from PlusSound a few weeks ago, but I didn't really know what metals were in it. Considering the fact that my sound impressions match yours exactly, I'm gonna gamble that we have the same product. I'll be reviewing this right after the FIBAE 3 review comes out, so stay tuned.


----------



## Kerouac (Feb 15, 2018)

fabian.1991 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> At first, sorry, my english is not the best!
> 
> ...


Hi Fabian,

I just saw your post and thought that you might try your luck with Forza AudioWorks (Poland) or Toxic Cables (UK) as they're both excellent cable makers, located in EU (which should avoid any hassle with import taxes for you)
https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/category.php?id_category=36 + https://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/

You can also contact them on HF. Both Frank (@Toxic Cables) and Matthew (@Matez) are great guys to communicate/deal (speaking out of experience here) with imo.

Good luck!



Wyville said:


> Copied from the PlusSound thread, but I felt it would be well worth sharing here as well.
> 
> Yesterday I got in the Exo Silver + Gold with new PS Insulation and I am very impressed by the improvement in the ergonomics, it is an amazingly supple cable! Early days on the sound, but initial impressions are very good: A wonderfully bright and clear sound without any signs of harshness or peakiness in the treble and a very tight and impactful bass.


Now that's a wonderful looking cable! Just curious: is it a loaner or a keeper?
Based on your initial signature desciption, I think it might (also) be a great match for warmer tuned iems


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Awesome, man! I got a *very* similar-looking cable from PlusSound a few weeks ago, but I didn't really know what metals were in it. Considering the fact that my sound impressions match yours exactly, I'm gonna gamble that we have the same product. I'll be reviewing this right after the FIBAE 3 review comes out, so stay tuned.


That's great! How do you like the ergonomics? I arranged a loaner PlusSound Exo Copper with the previous insulation for comparison and the difference is very noticeable! 


Kerouac said:


> Now that's a wonderful looking cable! Just curious: is it a loaner or a keeper?
> Based on your initial signature desciption, I think it might (also) be a great match for warmer tuned iems


I got this cable as a review sample, so it will stay in my review collection for later comparisons. After the review I can of course also send it over to friends if they want to try it out for themselves. 

PlusSound specifically states that it pairs well with warmer IEMs and that does indeed seem to be the case with my Ei.3, but I am also very curious about pairing it with the Saturn, which I will get back in a little while. I will also try out various other pairings, as I should have a few more IEMs coming in soon.


----------



## Bosk

Wyville said:


> Copied from the PlusSound thread, but I felt it would be well worth sharing here as well.
> 
> Yesterday I got in the Exo Silver + Gold with new PS Insulation and I am very impressed by the improvement in the ergonomics, it is an amazingly supple cable! Early days on the sound, but initial impressions are very good: A wonderfully bright and clear sound without any signs of harshness or peakiness in the treble and a very tight and impactful bass.


Congratulations on a fantastic looking cable Wyville. I'm very interested to know how you would compare its ergonomics and durability with Effect Audio's cables like the Thor, Lionheart and Leonidas for instance.


----------



## Wyville (Feb 15, 2018)

Bosk said:


> Congratulations on a fantastic looking cable Wyville. I'm very interested to know how you would compare its ergonomics and durability with Effect Audio's cables like the Thor, Lionheart and Leonidas for instance.


The new PS insulation is a real improvement over the previous one, which was a little bit stiffer than my Ares II. The new Exo I feel rivals my Lionheart in suppleness and might even be a bit more supple. One key difference is that the Exo does not have the pre-bent heat shrink, which improves how it wraps around your ears and is very comfortable!

In terms of build quality my first impression is that it is a very well built cable that feels like it was made to be used. All the parts feel solid and the connectors are a little bit bigger than those on my Ares II and Lionheart, but not noticeable because they are light. The only question I have is how the absence of the heat shrink around the ears will affect the cable over time (skin oils, rubbing, etc). So yeah, first impressions are really positive!


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> The new PS insulation is a real improvement over the previous one, which was a little bit stiffer than my Ares II. The new Exo I feel rivals my Lionheart in suppleness and might even be a bit more supple. One key difference is that the Exo does not have the pre-bent heat shrink, which improves how it wraps around your ears and is very comfortable!
> 
> In terms of build quality my first impression is that it is a very well built cable that feels like it was made to be used. All the parts feel solid and the connectors are a little bit bigger than those on my Ares II and Lionheart, but not noticeable because they are light. The only question I have is how the absence of the heat shrink around the ears will affect the cable over time (skin oils, rubbing, etc). So yeah, first impressions are really positive!


When conversing with @EffectAudio , he did mention that pvc based insulation, like effect's superflexi and what seems to be the new plussound cables. React badly to sweat, oils etc and has recommended to wipe the cables down after use. Some cables which were not wiped started to turn yellowish and stiff near the earguides and wherever the cable was in contact with your body. I would prefer sacrificing on the flexibility to use the old insulation as it is not as affected by those oils. Or alternatively add some heat shrink like effect audio to protect the cable


----------



## kubig123

tim0chan said:


> When conversing with @EffectAudio , he did mention that pvc based insulation, like effect's superflexi and what seems to be the new plussound cables. React badly to sweat, oils etc and has recommended to wipe the cables down after use. Some cables which were not wiped started to turn yellowish and stiff near the earguides and wherever the cable was in contact with your body. I would prefer sacrificing on the flexibility to use the old insulation as it is not as affected by those oils. Or alternatively add some heat shrink like effect audio to protect the cable



I dont know, I love the flexibility of the EA cables, they are so comfortable, I didn't t find any other cable with such characteristic plus I love how they sound, when I walk or travel they are my favorite choice.


----------



## Wyville

tim0chan said:


> When conversing with @EffectAudio , he did mention that pvc based insulation, like effect's superflexi and what seems to be the new plussound cables. React badly to sweat, oils etc and has recommended to wipe the cables down after use. Some cables which were not wiped started to turn yellowish and stiff near the earguides and wherever the cable was in contact with your body. I would prefer sacrificing on the flexibility to use the old insulation as it is not as affected by those oils. Or alternatively add some heat shrink like effect audio to protect the cable


Yes, that was the sort of thing I was thinking about. I don't know the details on the PS Insulation, so I guess I'll see what it does over time.


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> Yes, that was the sort of thing I was thinking about. I don't know the details on the PS Insulation, so I guess I'll see what it does over time.


What I meant was over a year or 2 but pls do share if anything happens


----------



## tim0chan

Wyville said:


> Yes, that was the sort of thing I was thinking about. I don't know the details on the PS Insulation, so I guess I'll see what it does over time.


The insulation is similar on the hansound series and the pwaudio no5


----------



## hamhamhamsta

I just got EA eos 4.4mm balanced cable. Color me very impressed! Its bold and powerful, sound quality definitely punched above its usd 300 price. Question to anyone who have heard eos and lets say lionheart or leonidas and other higher EA cables. Are they better than eos soundwise? 

Im very impressed with eos, and by extension EA. Do EA also offer 4.4 rhodiumconnector, just wondering


----------



## Deezel177

hamhamhamsta said:


> I just got EA eos 4.4mm balanced cable. Color me very impressed! Its bold and powerful, sound quality definitely punched above its usd 300 price. Question to anyone who have heard eos and lets say lionheart or leonidas and other higher EA cables. Are they better than eos soundwise?
> 
> Im very impressed with eos, and by extension EA. Do EA also offer 4.4 rhodiumconnector, just wondering



In my personal opinion, the only other EA cable that's *clearly* technically-superior than the Eos is the Horus. I'd say the Lionheart is technically on-par if not slightly more forgiving due to its inherently natural and pleasing presentation.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Deezel177 said:


> In my personal opinion, the only other EA cable that's *clearly* technically-superior than the Eos is the Horus. I'd say the Lionheart is technically on-par if not slightly more forgiving due to its inherently natural and pleasing presentation.


I see. I was thinking since eos difference with Ares was the Furutech plug, it would be awesome if EA can offer this plug as 4.4mm connector for their other cables. Didn't EA also came out with their awesome plug, is it the same as the Furutech brand?

@ Flickenick: So you've listened to AK1000 vs your PW1960 cable modded W1Z. How different are they compared soundwise? My W1Z is modded with Mundorf supreme silver/gold cable, but soundwise should be pretty close to yours. I'm curious to hear your opinion.


----------



## Deezel177

hamhamhamsta said:


> I see. I was thinking since eos difference with Ares was the Furutech plug, it would be awesome if EA can offer this plug as 4.4mm connector for their other cables. Didn't EA also came out with their awesome plug, is it the same as the Furutech brand?
> 
> @ Flickenick: So you've listened to AK1000 vs your PW1960 cable modded W1Z. How different are they compared soundwise? My W1Z is modded with Mundorf supreme silver/gold cable, but soundwise should be pretty close to yours. I'm curious to hear your opinion.



EA's most premium plug is the PSquared plug that they collaborated with Oyaide on. Oyaide is a Japanese company much like Furutech, but the common consensus among cable makers is that Furutech is the superior brand - because of build quality and the purity of their copper core plugs.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

PWaudio 1960s review on Headfonia:
https://www.headfonia.com/review-pwaudio-1960s/


----------



## Ultrainferno

WayneWoondirts said:


> PWaudio 1960s review on Headfonia:
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-pwaudio-1960s/



Including comparisons to Plussound, Efect Audio and Labkable top end cables


----------



## Kerouac (Feb 16, 2018)

WayneWoondirts said:


> PWaudio 1960s review on Headfonia:
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-pwaudio-1960s/


_''The first thing I noticed when listening to Katana with the two-wire was the *added warmth and body in the lower mids and upper bass, as well as the increased resolution.* Katana on its own is a reference tuned monitor with nice body, but *with the two-wire this body gets bigger and the entire presentation receives more blood, which makes it all sound more organic and smooth* to me. The *enhanced detail reproduction and resolution* was also very well received...Katana’s *sound stage did also see some changes in terms of width and depth, it stretches a touch further into each direction*. Going hand in hand with that, *layering and instrumental separation did also see some enhancements*.''_

Now, I've never heard the Katana myself, but these *bold parts* are exactly(!) the same improvements that I hear with the Zeus XR + PW1960 two-wire as well => a very accurate and well written description imo 
The PW1960 cables may not be cheap (= understatement), but they surely do deliver


----------



## WayneWoondirts

Kerouac said:


> _''The first thing I noticed when listening to Katana with the two-wire was the *added warmth and body in the lower mids and upper bass, as well as the increased resolution.* Katana on its own is a reference tuned monitor with nice body, but *with the two-wire this body gets bigger and the entire presentation receives more blood, which makes it all sound more organic and smooth* to me. The *enhanced detail reproduction and resolution* was also very well received...Katana’s *sound stage did also see some changes in terms of width and depth, it stretches a touch further into each direction*. Going hand in hand with that, *layering and instrumental separation did also see some enhancements*.''_
> 
> Now, I've never heard the Katana myself, but these *bold parts* are exactly(!) the same improvements that I hear with the Zeus XR + PW1960 two-wire as well => a very accurate and well written description imo
> The PW1960 cables may not be cheap (= understatement), but they surely do deliver




THANK YOU!!! 
I'm very glad you liked the review.


----------



## eugene2

I recently received a Whiplash V3 T series cable for my Noble Encore and a EA EOS cable for my Layla’s.  The Whiplash is broken in while I’m still burning in the EOS.  The Whiplash is a very good cable, but not very good with microphonics, around the ears. I’ll have to figure something out, maybe some carefully placed electrical tape.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Please give some impression regarding eos cable


----------



## daid1

Hi, so many cables so many doubts, I need a cable which make the mid frequencies more forward, around 100/150 dollars, please can someone suggest me something?


----------



## Deezel177

daid1 said:


> Hi, so many cables so many doubts, I need a cable which make the mid frequencies more forward, around 100/150 dollars, please can someone suggest me something?



The PWAudio No. 5 is a solid choice.


----------



## daid1

Deezel177 said:


> The PWAudio No. 5 is a solid choice.



But there are also the Effect audio Ares II, SGaudiohive Laboriosa, OC Orpheus mk5.5, Nocturnal audio Hydra V2, Nyx and Altair, Toxic cable Scorpion, Viper or Hybrid...


----------



## Deezel177

daid1 said:


> But there are also the Effect audio Ares II, SGaudiohive Laboriosa, OC Orpheus mk5.5, Nocturnal audio Hydra V2, Nyx and Altair, Toxic cable Scorpion, Viper or Hybrid...



The Ares II does not add midrange presence. Although a slight boost in the upper-bass adds a touch of warmth to vocals, the Ares II's signature is more defined by an increase in treble extension as well as added articulation in that area. I've not tried all the other cable you mentioned, but I'm recommending the one that I've personally demo'ed and can ensure will fit your needs. The No. 5 adds body and richness to midrange instruments, imbuing them with a more natural timbre as well as a more assured presence. I think you'll find it satisfactory.


----------



## daid1

Deezel177 said:


> The Ares II does not add midrange presence. Although a slight boost in the upper-bass adds a touch of warmth to vocals, the Ares II's signature is more defined by an increase in treble extension as well as added articulation in that area. I've not tried all the other cable you mentioned, but I'm recommending the one that I've personally demo'ed and can ensure will fit your needs. The No. 5 adds body and richness to midrange instruments, imbuing them with a more natural timbre as well as a more assured presence. I think you'll find it satisfactory.



Thank you, removed the ares from the list, now I'll wait if I can find some more information about the other cables and if not I'll buy the No.5


----------



## PinkyPowers

Loving this new @PLUSSOUND copper-based cable. I don't know what it's called or the details of its makeup, but it's something new they're releasing soon or just released. I need to gather more specifics. lol.

It's a robust, warm cable, with lots and lots of clarity. There's some extra bass impact and treble is warmed up nicely. The mids remain open and transparent.

Upon first listen, it's simply excellent.


----------



## 474194 (Feb 17, 2018)

WayneWoondirts said:


> PWaudio 1960s review on Headfonia:
> https://www.headfonia.com/review-pwaudio-1960s/





Ultrainferno said:


> Including comparisons to Plussound, Efect Audio and Labkable top end cables



Thanks, really enjoyed the review.  I take for granted the 2-wire since it's my daily driver and it gets out of one's way.  Made me appreciate it all over again.  Can’t wait for initial impressions paired with the Phantom.  Super excellent that Chord Mojo and Hugo₂ are the reference source for your review.  I can’t relate otherwise if Chord is not in the chain.  Will follow for future reviews.


----------



## chupa

Hey guys,

does anyone have a good avice which cables pairs great with 64audio A18? Budget is around € 500, -


----------



## PinkyPowers

chupa said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> does anyone have a good avice which cables pairs great with 64audio A18? Budget is around € 500, -



 What qualities are you hoping to enhance, tame, or alter?


----------



## Super Angulon

PinkyPowers said:


> Loving this new @PLUSSOUND copper-based cable. I don't know what it's called or the details of its makeup, but it's something new they're releasing soon or just released. I need to gather more specifics. lol.
> 
> It's a robust, warm cable, with lots and lots of clarity. There's some extra bass impact and treble is warmed up nicely. The mids remain open and transparent.
> 
> Upon first listen, it's simply excellent.



Pinky, what is the difference in sound signature between this cable and plus sound X-GPC pairing with Encore?


----------



## PinkyPowers

Super Angulon said:


> Pinky, what is the difference in sound signature between this cable and plus sound X-GPC pairing with Encore?



This one is overall warmer. Less treble, fuller bass. The two-conductor X-Series GPC I have is the more uncolored cable. But this new one pairs better with Encore to my tastes.


----------



## hattrick15

chupa said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> does anyone have a good avice which cables pairs great with 64audio A18? Budget is around € 500, -



I use the Effect Audio Lionheart.  After looking at many posts, there seemed to be some agreement that this cable was a good match for the A18.  I asked Eric at Effect Audio (as I had bought previous cables from them and really liked the experience) and his recommendation was the Lionheart.  So, I bought it and I've been really happy with it.  It is very transparent and neutral.  It just feels like it opens up the music and creates a big soundstage compared to other cables I've tried.  It retails for approximately 400 Euros.


----------



## tim0chan

daid1 said:


> Thank you, removed the ares from the list, now I'll wait if I can find some more information about the other cables and if not I'll buy the No.5


For the laboriosa, what material ?
There's copper , spc, silver and X(also copper)


----------



## eugene2 (Feb 17, 2018)

hamhamhamsta said:


> Please give some impression regarding eos cable


I will after I finish burning them in, probably Monday.


----------



## eugene2

PinkyPowers said:


> This one is overall warmer. Less treble, fuller bass. The two-conductor X-Series GPC I have is the more uncolored cable. But this new one pairs better with Encore to my tastes.


I noticed on the picture from your previous post you are using spinfit or symbio tips on your Encore.  I tried every size of both and find the treble runs hot and I lose a few dB off the bottom end.  I find comply foam give me a better balance and closer to ciems.  Maybe my ears just don’t work with them.


----------



## tim0chan

eugene2 said:


> I noticed on the picture from your previous post you are using spinfit or symbio tips on your Encore.  I tried every size of both and find the treble runs hot and I lose a few dB off the bottom end.  I find comply foam give me a better balance and closer to ciems.  Maybe my ears just don’t work with them.


Maybe it's just your preference. Comply almost always doesn't sound like the ciems. Always boosts the bass by increasing seal and reducing the treble. I personally never use comply, I prefer crystalline audio foam tips. Those seal like comply but doesn't take away the treble


----------



## PinkyPowers

eugene2 said:


> I noticed on the picture from your previous post you are using spinfit or symbio tips on your Encore.  I tried every size of both and find the treble runs hot and I lose a few dB off the bottom end.  I find comply foam give me a better balance and closer to ciems.  Maybe my ears just don’t work with them.



It's all a matter of preference. I don't like the sound of Comply.


----------



## daid1

tim0chan said:


> For the laboriosa, what material ?
> There's copper , spc, silver and X(also copper)



I'm looking for a cable that improve a little bit the medium frequencies taking it forward but I don't know which one.


----------



## ezekiel77

daid1 said:


> I'm looking for a cable that improve a little bit the medium frequencies taking it forward but I don't know which one.


I'll throw you a curveball from a few years ago when I was looking for the exact same thing as you, a cable that brings the mids forward. Take a look at this thread from veteran reviewer average_joe.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/19-...ffect-pearl-apollo-odin-added-3-20-13.564978/

Do a text search for "Arete" and you'll find it, in most of his CIEMs the Null Audio Arete manages to pull the mids forward, it maybe what you're looking for.

The Arete is now in it's third generation available here https://www.null-audio.com/products/arete-series-mkii-replacement-cable-for-earphones
Unfortunately, I haven't heard it, but food for thought as this cable is significantly cheaper than the others.


----------



## tim0chan

tim0chan said:


> Maybe it's just your preference. Comply almost always doesn't sound like the ciems. Always boosts the bass by increasing seal and reducing the treble. I personally never use comply, I prefer crystalline audio foam tips. Those seal like comply but doesn't take away the bass





daid1 said:


> I'm looking for a cable that improve a little bit the medium frequencies taking it forward but I don't know which one.


The X, would be the one. It moves the mids forward. But not completely sure abt the overall performance


----------



## Wyville

PinkyPowers said:


> Loving this new @PLUSSOUND copper-based cable. I don't know what it's called or the details of its makeup, but it's something new they're releasing soon or just released. I need to gather more specifics. lol.
> 
> It's a robust, warm cable, with lots and lots of clarity. There's some extra bass impact and treble is warmed up nicely. The mids remain open and transparent.
> 
> Upon first listen, it's simply excellent.


PlusSound just released their new PS Insulation, which offers a great improvement in ergonomics and performance. I posted an image of the Exo Silver + Gold a few days ago (here) and I have been really impressed by it so far.


----------



## daid1

tim0chan said:


> The X, would be the one. It moves the mids forward. But not completely sure abt the overall performance



Do you have try this?


----------



## tim0chan

daid1 said:


> Do you have try this?


I can try for u if u want


----------



## daid1

tim0chan said:


> I can try for u if u want



Oh thanks , but you have some other cable that I mentioned to compare with?


----------



## tim0chan

daid1 said:


> Oh thanks , but you have some other cable that I mentioned to compare with?


Ares 2 soon


----------



## hattrick15

ezekiel77 said:


> I'll throw you a curveball from a few years ago when I was looking for the exact same thing as you, a cable that brings the mids forward. Take a look at this thread from veteran reviewer average_joe.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/19-...ffect-pearl-apollo-odin-added-3-20-13.564978/
> 
> ...



@daid1 if you are willing to wait awhile and you live in the US, you can hear the Arete by signing up for the Null Audio cable tour here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nul...s-head-fi-tour-starting-december-2017.867643/


----------



## daid1

hattrick15 said:


> @daid1 if you are willing to wait awhile and you live in the US, you can hear the Arete by signing up for the Null Audio cable tour here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nul...s-head-fi-tour-starting-december-2017.867643/



Unfortunately none of the two , I live in Italy and I hope to decide and to buy the cable the next week


----------



## eugene2

tim0chan said:


> Maybe it's just your preference. Comply almost always doesn't sound like the ciems. Always boosts the bass by increasing seal and reducing the treble. I personally never use comply, I prefer crystalline audio foam tips. Those seal like comply but doesn't take away the treble


“Almost always?”  I’m just saying proper seal without leakage no wax guard I don’t find treble taken away, while not perfect (that’s why I’m still searching)  appears less fatiguing to my ears.  Anyway was just a question as Pinky stated personal preference.  I have a very good seal on my ciem Layla’s because I sat in the JH factory working with the fitter until we got the seal right.  Which more emulated a spongy tip like comply then silicone.  While a solid seal doesn’t allow bass to evacuate I wouldn’t call it boosted, go to any funk, jazz, rock, electro concert and the foundation is always prominent, not sitting way in the background.


----------



## olddude

I used Comply for years quite happily, but when I moved up to an AK240SS and then an AUSP1000SS (with Angie and Zeus) I found that my personal taste switched from Comply to a Sony hybrid tip and now to Final Audio E tips (silicone).  I just found them a bit livelier than the Comply (which I have a gallon baggie full of a wide variety of).  My UERM is a CIEM and the silicone tips seem to replicate that seal pretty well.  The UERM was a long-term effort to get the fit right, and even though it now is close to perfect I can still break seal by opening my mouth (I walk while listening, so sometimes breathing means opening my mouth    ).  The FA's don't do that.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Wyville said:


> PlusSound just released their new PS Insulation, which offers a great improvement in ergonomics and performance. I posted an image of the Exo Silver + Gold a few days ago (here) and I have been really impressed by it so far.



Yeah, the new insulation is great. A real improvement over their earlier stuff, which wasn't bad itself. But this is better. 

I talked with Christian, and this cable I'm reviewing has not been announced yet, so I can't go into the details. But they are exciting, unique, and rather interesting.


----------



## Wyville

PinkyPowers said:


> Yeah, the new insulation is great. A real improvement over their earlier stuff, which wasn't bad itself. But this is better.
> 
> I talked with Christian, and this cable I'm reviewing has not been announced yet, so I can't go into the details. But they are exciting, unique, and rather interesting.


Very nice to hear! Always good to see new innovations. I get the impression Christian is doing a great job there, and not just with his cables!


----------



## chupa

hattrick15 said:


> I use the Effect Audio Lionheart.  After looking at many posts, there seemed to be some agreement that this cable was a good match for the A18.  I asked Eric at Effect Audio (as I had bought previous cables from them and really liked the experience) and his recommendation was the Lionheart.  So, I bought it and I've been really happy with it.  It is very transparent and neutral.  It just feels like it opens up the music and creates a big soundstage compared to other cables I've tried.  It retails for approximately 400 Euros.


Thanks for the advice. Is it a durable cable? Tangle free? How does the bass sound with it?


----------



## chupa

PinkyPowers said:


> What qualities are you hoping to enhance, tame, or alter?


More airiness, more punchy bass.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Thor Silver II and plusSound Exo T-Metal are good choices.


----------



## Tanjiro

PinkyPowers said:


> Yeah, the new insulation is great. A real improvement over their earlier stuff, which wasn't bad itself. But this is better.
> 
> I talked with Christian, and this cable I'm reviewing has not been announced yet, so I can't go into the details. But they are exciting, unique, and rather interesting.


Hi Pinky, looking forward to hearing more from you about the new cable.  My Zeus R is pairing with PS EXO copper and I am happy with it. Christian is a very nice guy.  His customer service is top notch.


----------



## koven

Anyone heard of have thoughts on the ALO Gold?
https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/gold-16/


----------



## hattrick15

chupa said:


> Thanks for the advice. Is it a durable cable? Tangle free? How does the bass sound with it?



No issues with durability.  It is very supple, but I've never had any issues with it getting tangled.  The overall sound does not put an emphasis on any one frequency (to my ears).  It is just a very transparent cable that brings out a lot of detail and creates a really nice soundstage.  I've paired it with my A18 and I really like that combination (bass is very nice, but not exaggerated).


----------



## korvin12

koven said:


> Anyone heard of have thoughts on the ALO Gold?
> https://www.aloaudio.com/shop/gold-16/



I try it at a local audio shop in singapore yesterday, pairing it with the andromeda which the shop recommends, i find it the low ends to be too overwhelming & boomy, the clarity was slightly off and sounded muffed


----------



## koven

korvin12 said:


> I try it at a local audio shop in singapore yesterday, pairing it with the andromeda which the shop recommends, i find it the low ends to be too overwhelming & boomy, the clarity was slightly off and sounded muffed



Ah interesting, thanks for sharing. I think I will stick with my Ref8 in that case.


----------



## korvin12

koven said:


> Ah interesting, thanks for sharing. I think I will stick with my Ref8 in that case.



Welcome, even the audio shop staff said I am not the 1st person who mention that the gold16 cable is too bassy


----------



## ezekiel77

I haven't heard the Gold, but when you think about the stereotypical characteristics, copper=smoothness and warmth, gold=colouration and note richness. I think it's meant to deliver a more euphonic, emotional and musical experience, without much emphasis on clarity/transparency. For my preferences I'd avoid GPC (my favourite cable is a GPS, however), but I can imagine other people enjoying them.


----------



## koven

ezekiel77 said:


> I haven't heard the Gold, but when you think about the stereotypical characteristics, copper=smoothness and warmth, gold=colouration and note richness. I think it's meant to deliver a more euphonic, emotional and musical experience, without much emphasis on clarity/transparency. For my preferences I'd avoid GPC (my favourite cable is a GPS, however), but I can imagine other people enjoying them.



Yeah that makes sense. Which GPS cable do you like personally?


----------



## ezekiel77

koven said:


> Yeah that makes sense. Which GPS cable do you like personally?


Only tried one lol, the Whiplash TWau v2. Delivers the silver characteristics I know and love (detail), a touch of warmth all-round in gold.

I thought a copper/silver hybrid might replicate this, but the hybrid cable I've tried (Eros I) tends to be V-shaped and flattens the mids somewhat.


----------



## audio123

Han Sound Muse II Review 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/02/14/han-sound-muse-ii/


----------



## eugene2 (Feb 21, 2018)

hamhamhamsta said:


> Please give some impression regarding eos cable


This is just my opinion, of what I'm hearing with the EOS cable versus the standard cable, the mimic cable and a third cable I picked up from eBay.  I'll keep it brief.  First let me start off by saying I'm a musician first (sax player) audiophile second.  I have a very good big rig which I have carefully assembled over time and has allowed me to refine my audiophile side.  I haven't been able to listen much because I had to move out of my home into an apartment and my neighbors tend to complain when I turn on my rig.  So I have become a avid headphone listener.  I also believe cable does make a difference.  On my big rig I have some very expensive Verastarr silver cable throughout.
I just upgraded my portable rig with a Hugo2 which allows me to hear more of the subtleties associated with changes made downstream.  On to the EOS, the first adjective that comes to mind is vivd.  Not to the extreme of brightness, similar to the impression I had with the Ares II on my Noble iems, spotlit but not bright.  Extended without being sibilant or harsh.  The cable does little, but very noticeable things, increased air around instruments, while not adding bass, bass appears tighter cleaner.  Vocals also seem to take on a natural sheen, again more air, but not exaggerated, because of these attributes soundstage seems to be more layered, but not wider.  Everything seems to be slightly clearer, cleaner with treble slightly more extended again without sounding zippy.  One final thought on staging, because of the separation and appearance of more air, spatial cues seem to be much more distinct.  For me the cable makes my Layla's a better ciem.  Some day I'd like to try the Horus to see where that cable will take the Layla's.
I checked my findings over and over again, the same passages to ensure what I was hearing is not placebo.  I used a couple of tunes, Macy Gray, "Annabelle", Cassandra Wilson, "Love is Blindness" Hugh Masekela "Hope" Patricia Barber, "Black Magic Woman" Terrance Blanchard, "Levees"


----------



## ctsooner22

I'm new here, but after speaking with Nic and the folks at Effect Audio I wanted to share some thoughts on cables. I come from the 2 channel world adn have been in and around audio since 1969.  I will make my first post brief to see if I get flamed or not, lol.  . I realize that some will not agree with my posts, but here goes.

First off cables are made of wires and dielectric.  The dielectric does load up over time and it needs to be dissipated if possible.  The Audioquest line uses DBS that is patented under a good friend Richard Vandersteen (Vandersteen speakers) and Bill Low owns Audioquest.  This little battery device keeps the dielectric from loading up.  Some of you engineers will know what I'm talking about, even though you may disagree, lol.

The wires are made up of grains and they have boundaries that are like little rivers between the grains.  All the wire is an alloy, which is pure copper or silver (mostly) with bits of other elements mixed in to help with the properties of the cable.  They will be tinsel strength, elongation (stretching), vickers hardness and grain size).  In wire you want the largest grains you can get.  Perfect I was told is a solid grain crystal.  I guess that's how they become directional as some cables are in the 2 channel world.  What you alloy with will change the sound character of the wire also.  I won't get into plating in this post but would love to hear what others know about it.  I just equate it to changing the skin effect for the mids and highs, but I know there is much much more like timing of the signal passing etc... Again, NOT A TECH guy, lol.  

Cold welding is probably the best way to pass a signal, but it's very expensive to do properly.  I spoke with the Effect Audio guys and they wish they have that machine for the cables.  It really will make a sound difference with a HIGH REZ IEM/CIEM/CAN or other transducer.  These are just some thoughts of mine on cables.  Geometry is also a HUGE part.  Heck the new EA cables are the same 8 wire cable for IEM's, but they are braided differently and sound very different.  Both are outstanding though adn I'll review as soon as I can get my hands on a pair of the warmer ones, lol.


----------



## audio123 (Feb 23, 2018)

The very first cable review I have written!

Plussound Exo GPC Type 6 Litz Review 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/10/25/plussound-exo-gold-plated-copper-type-6-litz/


----------



## PinkyPowers (Feb 23, 2018)

audio123 said:


> The very first cable review I have written!
> 
> Plussound Exo GPC Type 6 Litz Review
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/10/25/plussound-exo-gold-plated-copper-type-6-litz/




Looks like you may have made the same mistake I did, and have the channels reversed. The plusSound logo faces the inside... at least for the two cables I have. Which are 2-pin. Maybe it's different for MMCX connectors. I know, it feels wrong, but that's how they do it.


----------



## Deezel177

PinkyPowers said:


> Looks like you may have made the same mistake I did, and have the channels reversed. The plusSound logo faces the inside... at least for the two cables I have. Which are 2-pin. Maybe it's different for MMCX connectors. I know, it feels wrong, but that's how they do it.



It remains one of audio's greatest mysteries to this day...


----------



## Blacktulipx

Guys who have already tried, is there big gap between Labkable Samurai III and PW audio 1960 4-wire in highs, bass?
Thx


----------



## flinkenick (Feb 24, 2018)

Blacktulipx said:


> Guys who have already tried, is there big gap between Labkable Samurai III and PW audio 1960 4-wire in highs, bass?
> Thx


Very different cables, Samurai III reduces bass quantity, 4-Wire has the bass you'd expect of a copper. Their tonality is also quite different, Samurai has a nice lift in the upper mids, giving it a melodious sound. 4-wire has more prominent upper treble, making it clearer and more transparent overall.


----------



## Blacktulipx (Feb 24, 2018)

flinkenick said:


> V
> 
> Very different cables, Samurai III reduces bass quantity, 4-Wire has the bass you'd expect of a copper. Their tonality is also quite different, Samurai has a nice lift in the upper mids, giving it a melodious sound. 4-wire has more prominent upper treble, making it clearer and more transparent overall.


Thx man!
It's so as I've thought. I've heard only Samurai III. It has detailed highs, tightened bass but it becomes too flat for me. I had a hope that PWaudio would add bass responce and a little bit details. It turns out that it is possible
P.S I hope to read your comparison between AK and Z1


----------



## audio123

Cable of the Day - Penon OS849

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/10/22/penon-os849/

1. Campfire Audio Andromeda + Penon OS849
2. Dunu DK-3001 + Penon OS849
3. Fidue A91 Sirius + Penon OS849


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Todays lunch break will consist of me trying to find the right pairing for my Inearz P350

Top Row (left to right): Effect Audio Ares II, Forza Audioworks Hybrid, WA Audio Gin
Bottom Row (left to right): Atlas Cables Zeno IEM, Plussound Exo Copper, Home-made Toxic Cables Viper

Test Track: Porcupine Tree - Trains
DAP: Audio Opus #2


----------



## Wyville

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Todays lunch break will consist of me trying to find the right pairing for my Inearz P350
> 
> Top Row (left to right): Effect Audio Ares II, Forza Audioworks Hybrid, WA Audio Gin
> Bottom Row (left to right): Atlas Cables Zeno IEM, Plussound Exo Copper, Home-made Toxic Cables Viper
> ...


I say, that is a wonderful lunch menu!


----------



## tim0chan

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Todays lunch break will consist of me trying to find the right pairing for my Inearz P350
> 
> Top Row (left to right): Effect Audio Ares II, Forza Audioworks Hybrid, WA Audio Gin
> Bottom Row (left to right): Atlas Cables Zeno IEM, Plussound Exo Copper, Home-made Toxic Cables Viper
> ...


How does the gin compare to the plussound? Also cost wise


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

tim0chan said:


> How does the gin compare to the plussound? Also cost wise



I'll test them back to back shortly, but the Gin is around £179.99 and the Exo Copper is $199 (around £150).

Gin leans towards a brighter, crisper presentation, it is a silver/gold mix, the Exo Copper is a little fuller bodied, but still detailed and airy for a copper cable.


----------



## tim0chan

Oscar-HiFi said:


> I'll test them back to back shortly, but the Gin is around £179.99 and the Exo Copper is $199 (around £150).
> 
> Gin leans towards a brighter, crisper presentation, it is a silver/gold mix, the Exo Copper is a little fuller bodied, but still detailed and airy for a copper cable.


Also would like a comparison with the ares 2 as I am looking for an alternative sidegrade for my iem


----------



## ctsooner22

Seem like solid choices. The Aries sounds great with every IEM I’ve heard it with. Just a solid can’t miss purchase. Haven’t heard enough of the others though


----------



## Oscar-HiFi (Mar 1, 2018)

This is all with my Inearz P350, other monitors will have different synergy.

Exo Copper is nice and clean sounding, a little warmth is added, but the top end is not harsh or boosted, just effortless and smooth. The midrange is intimate and seductive, almost liquid like in presentation but without congestion.

Ares II has more body in the bass, and slightly more treble presence, but it is not as natural as the Exo Copper. The midrange is mostly unaffected, with a tiny bit of added warmth but not intimacy. I'm a big fan of the Ares II, but careful matching is key, for most of my monitors I don't like the extra warmth down low that the Ares II injects. Its an odd one, as if you pair it with warm monitors, it may make them a little too thick, yet if you pair them with bright monitors, it may make them too bright and energetic.

Gin is airy and spacious, extension is a strong point, on both ends. I like the air this cable injects into the treble, yet the lows are still full and have good impact. The midrange is not as intimate as the Exo but has a clean and crisp tone. This cable is quite fun, a little U shaped if you like.

Toxic Viper has tight lows, with a focus on tighter mid bass, and fuller sub-bass. The midrange is not pushed back with this cable, and the highs gain a little more presence and are a little more up front. This is a leaner tonality but one that has great clarity, not great if you want a fuller more organic sound.

Forza Hybrid I have had for a long time, it was used with my P350 for a long time too, It retains the impact and warmth of a good copper cable, but with a little injected sparkle up top, this is a smooth yet detailed sounding cable, it is quite natural and highyl enjoyable. Again this cable doesn't change the sound of your monitors much, more of a subtle lift in detail and openness.

Atlas Zeno is a cable I like a lot, again like the Forza cable it doesn't change the sound drastically, what is does is change the tonality to one that is slightly more natural, there is a little extra weight to notes making them sound a little more real. It doesn't enhace any part of the sound, instead as a whole just makes it incredibly smooth, airy, separated and natural. This is not a thick and warm sounding copper cable, rather a more neutral and balanced sounding cable.


So which do I want to pair with my P350's now... I'm tied between the Zeno, Viper and Exo. More listening is required 


*Edit:* I have settled on the @PLUSSOUND Exo to use with my P350, overall sound I prefer the Zeno IEM, as it has a more natural tone compared to the others, but the Exo is close behind. It is not quite as natural as the Zeno, but also not as lean as the Viper. The reason I picked the Exo over the Zeno is due to the balanced jack, I use the iBasso DX200 with Amp3 and it only has balanced. I'll use the Zeno on my Hifiman RE2000 as I rarely use that with the DX200, and the Viper will go back on my 64 Audio U6.

Again cables are about synergy and finding the right cable for your headphones. My U6 are a little too warm, so the Viper brings out the extra sparkle I enjoy.

The cable I would love for my P350 is the @EffectAudio Leonidas, but that is quite pricey 

Leonidas



Exo Copper


----------



## tim0chan

Oscar-HiFi said:


> This is all with my Inearz P350, other monitors will have different synergy.
> 
> Exo Copper is nice and clean sounding, a little warmth is added, but the top end is not harsh or boosted, just effortless and smooth. The midrange is intimate and seductive, almost liquid like in presentation but without congestion.
> 
> ...


Nice comparisons, which cable would u recommend to bring up the mids as the iem is the bravado which needs a cable with a bump in the upper mids like the ares but also the rest of the midrange for the vocals


----------



## ctsooner22

excellent write up.  the cable that you may also want to keep an eye on is one of the new Effect Audio prototype cables.  They are around 1k or so.  Maybe a bit higher. I'm just not sure, but it's in the Horus line up.  They both sounded great to me, but after very careful listening there was one that just got out of the way and wasn't about tuning the IEM, just about letting me here what my AK380cu was sending it as well as the stream through a Hugo 2.  I then switched over to the 1Z Sony, using the Empire Ears Phantom's the whole time, and was floored.  I finally heard what I've read about the Sony being warmer overall than my AK380cu, but it didn't add extra.  I use an Audioquest WEL balanced interconnect from my Ayre DAC into my Ayre integrated and it was like a 2 component upgrade.  It was not subtle.  I felt that switching to this new cable to be was in a similar vein.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

ctsooner22 said:


> excellent write up.  the cable that you may also want to keep an eye on is one of the new Effect Audio prototype cables.  They are around 1k or so.  Maybe a bit higher. I'm just not sure, but it's in the Horus line up.  They both sounded great to me, but after very careful listening there was one that just got out of the way and wasn't about tuning the IEM, just about letting me here what my AK380cu was sending it as well as the stream through a Hugo 2.  I then switched over to the 1Z Sony, using the Empire Ears Phantom's the whole time, and was floored.  I finally heard what I've read about the Sony being warmer overall than my AK380cu, but it didn't add extra.  I use an Audioquest WEL balanced interconnect from my Ayre DAC into my Ayre integrated and it was like a 2 component upgrade.  It was not subtle.  I felt that switching to this new cable to be was in a similar vein.



Oh I will be keeping an eye on those, we are the UK reseller for Effect so I will get a listen at some point soon I hope 



tim0chan said:


> Nice comparisons, which cable would u recommend to bring up the mids as the iem is the bravado which needs a cable with a bump in the upper mids like the ares but also the rest of the midrange for the vocals



The Ares II adds a little warmth to the lower midrange, and a little clarity to the upper midrange. The Zeno IEM is the smoothest and most natural sounding, but also it is super clean.

The Exo Copper doesn't really add any colouration to the mids, but it doesn't recess them like some cables.


----------



## teknorob23

*How come traditional hi-fi cabling companies get so little air-play on HeadFi?*

Hi All, i'm new convert to both headfi and audiophile IEMs.

I come at it from a 20 year background in audiophile domestic hifi but finding myself with two children under 3 (the enquiry with the wife as to how this happened is on going. This has led to great joy coming into my life while music listening pleasure simultaneously leaves. Main problems being a) chances to listen are down to an hour in the evening or journeys to work, and b) my listening set-up becoming more compromised by the day as all my kit edges ever higher in the vane attempt to avoid small probing hands.

Up to about a month ago my mobile listening was iphone X - Audioquest jitterbug & Dragonfly red - grado gr10es (with and occasional foray with my Hugo2 from my domestic set-up. Then a friend opened my ears by lending me a pair of CA Andromedas, and that was it, so to cut what is becoming an unnecessarily  long story short, after some serious auditioning i've ended up in a happy place with Noble Audio Encores.

This leads me to my question, I place high value on the benefits of good cabling in home hifi, from speaker to interconnects to usb and ethernet, all of which i can hear an audible difference. I am therefore interested in hearing what my Encores can do with a cable upgrade. My first port of call would be to go with brands i know who make good hifi cables, such as:


Chord Company Shawline
Nordorst Leif Blue Heaven
Atlas Zeno

I cant however find much if any mention of the brands/cable on this site and i'm guessing for good reason, but i would be really interested to hear from the experts as to if and why specialist headphone cable brands are a better bet.

thanks in advance  Rob


----------



## Deezel177

teknorob23 said:


> *How come traditional hi-fi cabling companies get so little air-play on HeadFi?*
> 
> Hi All, i'm new convert to both headfi and audiophile IEMs.
> 
> ...



The problem is - as far as I know - these companies don't really make cables for in-ear monitors. Chord only makes hi-fi products, Nordost's only entry in porta-fi is in headphone cables, and the only time I've heard of Atlas Zeno is on @Oscar-HiFi's shoot-out just above.  Exposure is only guaranteed if those companies push their products and appear at places like CanJam and AXPONA, which is why manufacturers like Effect Audio and PlusSound do so well. Exposure through reviews is also a good way to go about it.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi (Mar 2, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> The problem is - as far as I know - these companies don't really make cables for in-ear monitors. Chord only makes hi-fi products, Nordost's only entry in porta-fi is in headphone cables, and the only time I've heard of Atlas Zeno is on @Oscar-HiFi's shoot-out just above.  Exposure is only guaranteed if those companies push their products and appear at places like CanJam and AXPONA, which is why manufacturers like Effect Audio and PlusSound do so well. Exposure through reviews is also a good way to go about it.



Contact Atlas for a sample, the Zeno IEM is very high purity copper and one of my favourite cables in my collection. Works really well with the FIBAE 3 too  

(https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ostewarts-multiple-iem-cable-review-thread.852370/#post-13550130)


----------



## ctsooner22

Teknorob, , we come from similar places.  I have been into 2 channel since 69.  I"m close friends with many in the industry.  I currently run Vandersteen Quatro CTs, Ayre AX5/20, Ayre QX5 that is soon to be replaced by The memory Player server/transport/DAC.  I use Audioquest WEL between DAC adn integrated in balanced mode.  I use their Castlerock speaker cables and a Diamond USB and ethernet cable.  I use the Niagara power deal and Furetech outlets (the new carbon ones) behind it all.  Teh Audioquest Hurricane power cords are on order soon.

There are many good cables to look into.  You will find a few reviewers who post regularly and figure out how they listen and then end up taking their advice.  For my can's I own ZMF Ori's with a custom high end balanced cable.  I own Noble Savant's with stock cable and have a pair of the brand new Empire Ear's Phantoms customs on order.  They come with the Effect Audio cable, but as soon as their prototypes come out, I'm hoping to get one as they are SPECIAL.  Just very neutral cables that keep the tonality without boosting anything.  I'm not a great lover of tuning wiht a cable, but in the IEM world many of the things that we are used to in 2 channel may as well get thrown out teh window, lol....  Oh, this hobby is also a BLAST and the folks here are THE BEST.  They don't judge by the badges you own and they all realize that we really do hear differently adn enjoy different gear.  Also, DON'T shop price or size of BA's in an IEM.  Also, companies have a sonic signature for nearly anyone and yes these guys will tell you if it's V shaped or neutral or basshead and buy off of it.  Most seem to own multiples, lol.....

Sit back and have some fun.  Welcome man!  Also feel free to PM me with any translation questions you may have


----------



## FangJoker

This thread is dangerous. I just found it while looking for cable recommendations for a sony xba-z5. I'm thinking toxic silver widow? I had one before when I first started here on a Beyerdynamic T1 that was modified to accept them.


----------



## audio123

iBasso CB13 Review 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/ibasso-cb13/


----------



## teknorob23

I totally get that if companies dont support specific market in terms of marketing and PR, especially with newer markets such as IEMs, then they cant expect to heard, but all three of these cables can work with IEMs and surely cant be discounted because they dont court their would be customers.

That said, before my recent conversion, i knew very little about the current state of play in the top end IEM market which is dominated by companies i'd never heard of


ctsooner22 said:


> Teknorob, , we come from similar places.  I have been into 2 channel since 69.  I"m close friends with many in the industry.  I currently run Vandersteen Quatro CTs, Ayre AX5/20, Ayre QX5 that is soon to be replaced by The memory Player server/transport/DAC.  I use Audioquest WEL between DAC adn integrated in balanced mode.  I use their Castlerock speaker cables and a Diamond USB and ethernet cable.  I use the Niagara power deal and Furetech outlets (the new carbon ones) behind it all.  Teh Audioquest Hurricane power cords are on order soon.
> 
> There are many good cables to look into.  You will find a few reviewers who post regularly and figure out how they listen and then end up taking their advice.  For my can's I own ZMF Ori's with a custom high end balanced cable.  I own Noble Savant's with stock cable and have a pair of the brand new Empire Ear's Phantoms customs on order.  They come with the Effect Audio cable, but as soon as their prototypes come out, I'm hoping to get one as they are SPECIAL.  Just very neutral cables that keep the tonality without boosting anything.  I'm not a great lover of tuning wiht a cable, but in the IEM world many of the things that we are used to in 2 channel may as well get thrown out teh window, lol....  Oh, this hobby is also a BLAST and the folks here are THE BEST.  They don't judge by the badges you own and they all realize that we really do hear differently adn enjoy different gear.  Also, DON'T shop price or size of BA's in an IEM.  Also, companies have a sonic signature for nearly anyone and yes these guys will tell you if it's V shaped or neutral or basshead and buy off of it.  Most seem to own multiples, lol.....
> 
> Sit back and have some fun.  Welcome man!  Also feel free to PM me with any translation questions you may have


thanks for the advice and from the short amount of time I’ve been here it’s certainly been fun, friendly and above all enlightening. rob


----------



## teknorob23

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Contact Atlas for a sample, the Zeno IEM is very high purity copper and one of my favourite cables in my collection. Works really well with the FIBAE 3 too
> 
> (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ostewarts-multiple-iem-cable-review-thread.852370/#post-13550130)



Thanks and I enjoyed reading your reviews I’ve lined up a lone of the chord shawline and the atlas from my local hifi shop, so it will at least be an interesting experiment. I’m finding it hard to find a weakness in the noble encores armoury and I’ve no reason to doubt their cable’s talents, so we’ll see and I’ll let you know how I get on, thanks again, rob


----------



## chaiyuta (Mar 4, 2018)

@teknorob23 : Hope this helps. To broaden the world of IEM cable to Asia side cause you live in UK. 
The Aftermarket IEM cable companies list (Asia) as following :
- Effect Audio , Singapore
- AudioHive , Singapore
- Null Audio , Singapore
- Wagnus ,Japan
- Brise Audio , Japan
- Nobunaga Labs , Japan
- Han sound , Taiwan
- OC Studio , Taiwan
- Luminox Audio , Taiwan
- Brimar Cable , Hongkong
- Labkable , Hongkong
- PW Audio , Hongkong
- Mad Cable , Hongkong
- Rhapsodio , Hongkong
- Modular Workshop , Hongkong
- Cross Lambda Audio , Thailand

[Update 1] added what audio123 raised me.
[Update 2] added what tim0chan raised me.
[Update 3] added what seesax raised me.


----------



## audio123 (Mar 2, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> @teknorob23 : Hope this helps. To broaden the world of IEM cable to Asia side cause you live in UK.
> The Aftermarket IEM cable companies list (Asia) as following :
> - Effect Audio , Singapore
> - Brise Audio , Japan
> ...


You forgot Modular Workshop from Singapore, PW Audio from Hong Kong, Luminox Audio from Taiwan, Wagnus from Japan!


----------



## audio123 (Mar 2, 2018)

I find the EM-6 to have incredible synergy with the Han Sound Muse II.


----------



## Deezel177

teknorob23 said:


> I totally get that if companies dont support specific market in terms of marketing and PR, especially with newer markets such as IEMs, then they cant expect to heard, but all three of these cables can work with IEMs and surely cant be discounted because they dont court their would be customers.
> 
> That said, before my recent conversion, i knew very little about the current state of play in the top end IEM market which is dominated by companies i'd never heard of
> 
> thanks for the advice and from the short amount of time I’ve been here it’s certainly been fun, friendly and above all enlightening. rob



Well, the marketing thing was sort of a secondary point in my post; the main one being their lack of support for IEMs. Although they _can_ be converted into IEM cables, they'd require re-terminations of some sort. Ninety-nine percent of IEM cables today already come in IEM cable form - with proper terminations on both the transducer and source ends for use with IEMs. They've also been optimised for IEMs ergonomically, while speaker and headphone cables tend to be stiffer and less pliant, particularly due to the high amounts of shielding that come with cables of these kinds.


----------



## chaiyuta

@audio123 : Thanks. I already added.


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> @teknorob23 : Hope this helps. To broaden the world of IEM cable to Asia side cause you live in UK.
> The Aftermarket IEM cable companies list (Asia) as following :
> - Effect Audio , Singapore
> - Modular Workshop , Singapore
> ...


Don't forget audiohive


----------



## chaiyuta

@tim0chan : Thanks. I already added.


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> @tim0chan : Thanks. I already added.


Btw, modular is from hk


----------



## teknorob23

chaiyuta said:


> @teknorob23 : Hope this helps. To broaden the world of IEM cable to Asia side cause you live in UK.
> The Aftermarket IEM cable companies list (Asia) as following :
> - Effect Audio , Singapore
> - AudioHive , Singapore
> ...



Just a couple then!!! and so that’s tonight’s reading sorted, brilliant thank you


----------



## teknorob23

teknorob23 said:


> Just a couple then!!! and so that’s tonight’s reading sorted, brilliant thank you





Deezel177 said:


> Well, the marketing thing was sort of a secondary point in my post; the main one being their lack of support for IEMs. Although they _can_ be converted into IEM cables, they'd require re-terminations of some sort. Ninety-nine percent of IEM cables today already come in IEM cable form - with proper terminations on both the transducer and source ends for use with IEMs. They've also been optimised for IEMs ergonomically, while speaker and headphone cables tend to be stiffer and less pliant, particularly due to the high amounts of shielding that come with cables of these kinds.



Looking forward to trying some of these iem specialist brands and comparing to the atlas and chords. Get what your saying and makes total sense, thanks


----------



## chaiyuta

@tim0chan : Thanks. I already edited it.


----------



## SeeSax

chaiyuta said:


> @tim0chan : Thanks. I already edited it.



Don't forget one of my favorites: Rhapsodio! 

I think you may have inadvertently signed yourself up to keep a running tally of Asian cable manufacturers 

-Collin-


----------



## chaiyuta

@SeeSax : I searched in e-earphone, but I didn't find Rhapsodio cable product. Could you give me link so that I will update the list? By the way, I thought that it will be good if the thread starter, @flinkenick ,  will bring my cable company list into his first post.


----------



## SeeSax

Sure: https://www.rhapsodiostore.com/categories/iem-upgrade-cable

Nic talks about a few Rhapsodio cables on the first few posts. 

-Collin-


----------



## chaiyuta

@SeeSax : Thanks. I already added it.


----------



## PinkyPowers

chaiyuta said:


> @SeeSax : I searched in e-earphone, but I didn't find Rhapsodio cable product. Could you give me link so that I will update the list? By the way, I thought that it will be good if the thread starter, @flinkenick ,  will bring my cable company list into his first post.



 I don't see the connection between your list and Nic's shootout. This does not belong on the 1st post.


----------



## chaiyuta

@PinkyPowers : Sorry, you are right.


----------



## flinkenick

It's alright I think @chaiyuta just suggests to add a list of all cable vendors to the begin to make it easier to explore options, I can add to the first or second post.


----------



## ctsooner22

Very kind Nic.  Actually all the links that you guys constantly add to posts or in your signatures has helped me learn a ton!  I've now gotten to hear so many cables and IEM's (along with headphones) that I have a much much better understanding of what you guys post about etc...  I"ve already spoken to a few of my 2 channel dealers Buddys around the US about personal audio and one in Fl is already putting together a list of companies in the IEM and headphone arena to speak with about carrying their stuff.  I want to make sure he has a nice sampling for his store as it's a very very high end market he plays in.  

Thanks  to all.  Pete


----------



## PinkyPowers

flinkenick said:


> It's alright I think @chaiyuta just suggests to add a list of all cable vendors to the begin to make it easier to explore options, I can add to the first or second post.



Oh crap. I thought this was your shootout thread. lol. Sorry @chaiyuta my mistake.


----------



## chaiyuta

Either way is fine. I admit that if that list is put into the first post in-between the clarification of cable whether it provides SQ difference or not. Readers might feel surprised that they face up to a sponsor break.


----------



## flinkenick (Mar 5, 2018)

chaiyuta said:


> Either way is fine. I admit that if that list is put into the first post in-between the clarification of cable whether it provides SQ difference or not. Readers might feel surprised that they face up to a sponsor break.


I added the list on post 2. Noticed that most of the links were to facebook pages, maybe better to do the actual websites where they have the products on display?


----------



## chaiyuta

Oh.. I agreed in a half way cause some doesn't update their website as much as their social media page, moreover some might need to disuss & place an order via fb messenger or e-mail. How about add both their website and their social media later once I have enough time via PM?


----------



## flinkenick

chaiyuta said:


> Oh.. I agreed in a half way cause some doesn't update their website as much as their social media page, moreover some might need to disuss & place an order via fb messenger or e-mail. How about add both their website and their social media later once I have enough time via PM?


That would be great if you don't mind doing it! And when you're done, you can move on to creating a list of USA and European manufacturers  Just kidding. I changed the websites of EA and Wagnus, but went back to work after that.


----------



## audio123 (Mar 5, 2018)

flinkenick said:


> That would be great if you don't mind doing it! And when you're done, you can move on to creating a list of USA and European manufacturers  Just kidding. I changed the websites of EA and Wagnus, but went back to work after that.


I still have more. Hope this helps! 

Acoustune (Japan) - http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopbrand/ct3342/
Bispa (Japan) - http://www.e-earphone.jp/cable/Bispa 
Dita (Singapore) - http://www.ditaaudio.com/index.php/products/truth-replacement-cable.html
Eme Audio (Japan) - http://eme-audio.com/
Onso (Japan) - http://www.onsoproject.com/
Penon (Hong Kong) - https://penon-official.com/
Rosenkranz (Japan) - http://www.rosenkranz-jp.com/Product/earphone_headphone
Song Audio (Hong Kong) - http://www.songs-audio.com/


----------



## tim0chan (Mar 5, 2018)

Murica!!!
Plussound:
http://www.plussoundaudio.com
Btg audio/ Q cables
http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm
Whiplash audio
http://www.whiplashaudio.com
Moon audio's dragon cables
https://www.moon-audio.com/dragon-audio-cables.html
Double Helix
https://doublehelixcables.com/
Norne audio
http://www.norneaudio.com/litzheim/

Lmk if I missed any of the more obscure onws


----------



## kubig123

tim0chan said:


> Murica!!!
> Plussound:
> http://www.plussoundaudio.com
> Btg audio/ Q cables
> ...


Double Helix
https://doublehelixcables.com/


----------



## tim0chan

kubig123 said:


> Double Helix
> https://doublehelixcables.com/


Their lead times are insane tho, but yea, I forgot them and norne audio


----------



## kubig123

tim0chan said:


> Their lead times are insane tho, but yea, I forgot them and norne audio


Agree ordering a cable from double helix is just playing the lottery, you’ll never know when you get it.
Also norne is not the best in keeping up with the oders, I had always to contact them asking for an update.


----------



## audio123

The GS849 is a remarkable hybrid cable that is able to tighten the bass and provides the additional punch for greater impact. In addition, the midrange is being tackled well with an increased amount of details whilst the treble is expressed in an effortless manner. The overall sound experiences an increase in definition and showcases great flair. The Penon GS849 is Penon’s current flagship cable and it is nothing short of impressive.

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/penon-gs849


----------



## Tanjiro

kubig123 said:


> Agree ordering a cable from double helix is just playing the lottery, you’ll never know when you get it.
> Also norne is not the best in keeping up with the oders, I had always to contact them asking for an update.



After sales service is ABSOLUTELY Zero for Norne Audio from my own experience.  Definitely would avoid from it.


----------



## flinkenick

Nice effort guys! I added Forza Audioworks and Toxic cables for Europe, let me know if anyone thinks of anything else.


----------



## Wyville

flinkenick said:


> Nice effort guys! I added Forza Audioworks and Toxic cables for Europe, let me know if anyone thinks of anything else.


SilverFi? 

Also, what was the Dutch company working with Dita? Do they offer their own cables?


----------



## teknorob23

Wyville said:


> SilverFi?
> 
> Also, what was the Dutch company working with Dita? Do they offer their own cables?



Van Den Hul. I have used their interconnects in my 2 channel set and they're very good


----------



## FangJoker

Any cable advice for a Sony XBA-Z5? I don't want to go over $1,000, but will if the cable will change my life. LOL  I'd prefer to be around $500 if possible.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> SilverFi?
> 
> Also, what was the Dutch company working with Dita? Do they offer their own cables?



The only cables they offer are the Dita ones, and they should come with an ergonomic safety hazard.


----------



## ctsooner22

This is a great thread for a newbie, like me, however I can't get any of them to try ahead of time.  That kind of stinks, lol.  Jealous of you all who have many and can figure out what works best with your specific IEM's.  My first after market cable will be the soon to be released Effect Audio cable with my Empire Ear's new Phantom CIEM.  It was the only after market cable I heard with them that I thought made a bit of a difference.  Got out of the way and kept the beautiful warmness of the IEM and even extended teh top without any harshness, but kept the bite of the Sax and the shimmer of a splash cymbal, which to me is so important.  Also kept that tight bass and kept it tuneful.  I think it will be a hit as it's in their Horus line and priced less than the Horus.

I hope to get a few dealers I know to carry some personal audio.  Maybe then, I'll be able to hear other cables as there seems to be a few that are outstanding values adn some that are just outstanding.  thanks. all.


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> The only cables they offer are the Dita ones, and they should come with an ergonomic safety hazard.



I agree, beautiful cable and the interchangeable plug is brilliant, but as fas as ergonomic they are some of the worst.


----------



## ctsooner22

teknorob23 said:


> Van Den Hul. I have used their interconnects in my 2 channel set and they're very good




I've owned a lot of VDH gear over the years.  Their phono cartridges used to be outstanding.  I actually have one of their MM1's in the basement.  It was one of the Best Buys in all cartridges as it's so musical.  I've had most of the cables in my system over the years to review and they were nice.  Nothing so special that I've ever wanted to replace my reference gear, but well priced to say the least and great value.  I'm sure their cables will be a solid buy and possibly a great buy as they are so fundamentally sound in everything they do.  Kind of like Audioquest. I think I've liked virtually everything they have brought to market. Heck, I even use to of their power outlets behind each of my Vandersteen spekaers as they have powered subs built in, lol.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> The only cables they offer are the Dita ones, and they should come with an ergonomic safety hazard.


Thanks! Haha, yeah, I read several comments about that previously. Never understand why any manufacturer would compromise on the ergonomics of a high-end cable. It would be akin to building a Ferrari that has cinder blocks for seats. 


ctsooner22 said:


> This is a great thread for a newbie, like me, however I can't get any of them to try ahead of time.  That kind of stinks, lol.  Jealous of you all who have many and can figure out what works best with your specific IEM's.  My first after market cable will be the soon to be released Effect Audio cable with my Empire Ear's new Phantom CIEM.  It was the only after market cable I heard with them that I thought made a bit of a difference.  Got out of the way and kept the beautiful warmness of the IEM and even extended teh top without any harshness, but kept the bite of the Sax and the shimmer of a splash cymbal, which to me is so important.  Also kept that tight bass and kept it tuneful.  I think it will be a hit as it's in their Horus line and priced less than the Horus.
> 
> I hope to get a few dealers I know to carry some personal audio.  Maybe then, I'll be able to hear other cables as there seems to be a few that are outstanding values adn some that are just outstanding.  thanks. all.


Well I can say one thing, when you have your Phantom with the new EA cable, many people around here will be extremely jealous of you!  From what I have read of your (and a little bit of Nic's) descriptions, it sounds like an excellent pairing!


----------



## kubig123

ctsooner22 said:


> This is a great thread for a newbie, like me, however I can't get any of them to try ahead of time.  That kind of stinks, lol.  Jealous of you all who have many and can figure out what works best with your specific IEM's.  My first after market cable will be the soon to be released Effect Audio cable with my Empire Ear's new Phantom CIEM.  It was the only after market cable I heard with them that I thought made a bit of a difference.  Got out of the way and kept the beautiful warmness of the IEM and even extended teh top without any harshness, but kept the bite of the Sax and the shimmer of a splash cymbal, which to me is so important.  Also kept that tight bass and kept it tuneful.  I think it will be a hit as it's in their Horus line and priced less than the Horus.
> 
> I hope to get a few dealers I know to carry some personal audio.  Maybe then, I'll be able to hear other cables as there seems to be a few that are outstanding values adn some that are just outstanding.  thanks. all.



If you want to try different cables, just let me know, I can send you some!


----------



## ctsooner22

kubig123 said:


> If you want to try different cables, just let me know, I can send you some!



or even meet up to exchange and listen! lol....and look at Ferrari's . Ha!!!!


----------



## chaiyuta

Give me a time. Perhaps during this weekend. I will finished the revised asia company list. Cause.. I am quite lazy during weekdays~~


----------



## chaiyuta

Here is the revised Asia List ~~

ASIA (ascending sort by national and name)

- Brimar Cable, Hongkong
Official site : https://www.brimar.net/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/brimar.net/
- Labkable, Hongkong
Official site : http://www.labkable-headfi.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/Labkable/
- Mad Cable, Hongkong
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/MadCableHK/
- Modular Workshop, Hongkong
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/ModularWorkshop/
- Penon, Hong Kong
Official site : https://penon-official.com/
- PW Audio, Hongkong
Official site : http://www.pw-audio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/pwaudio2014/
- Rhapsodio, Hongkong
Official site : https://www.rhapsodiostore.com/categories/iem-upgrade-cable
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/rhapsodiohk/
- Song Audio, Hong Kong
Official site : http://www.songs-audio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/SongsAudio/
- Acoustune, Japan
Official site : http://acoustune.com/
Shopping site : http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopbrand/ct3342/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/acoustune
- Bispa, Japan
Official site : https://bispa.co.jp/
Shopping site : http://www.e-earphone.jp/cable/Bispa
Twitter : https://twitter.com/Bispa_ATL
- Brise Audio, Japan
Official site : http://briseaudio.jp/index.html
Twitter : https://twitter.com/briseaudio
- Eme Audio, Japan
Official site : http://eme-audio.com/cable
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/emeaudio
- Onso, Japan
Official site : http://www.onsoproject.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/onsoproject/
- Nobunaga Labs, Japan
Official site : http://nobunagalabs.com/nobunagalabs/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/nobunagalabs/
- Rosenkranz, Japan
Official site : http://www.rosenkranz-jp.com/Product/earphone_headphone/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/rosenkranz.jp/
- Wagnus, Japan
Official blog : https://wagnus.exblog.jp/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/wagnus_official
- AudioHive, Singapore
Official site : https://sgaudiohive.com/collections/cables
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/sgaudiohive
- Dita, Singapore
Official site : http://www.ditaaudio.com/index.php/products/truth-replacement-cable.html
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/DitaAudio/
- Effect Audio, Singapore
Official site : https://www.effectaudio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/effectaudiosg/
- Null Audio, Singapore
Official site : https://www.null-audio.com/collections/iem-headphone-cable
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/NullAudio/
- Han sound, Taiwan
Official site : http://www.hansoundaudio.com/default.aspx
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/hansoundaudio/
- Luminox Audio, Taiwan
Official site : http://www.luminox-a.com.tw/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/luminoxaudio.tw/
- OC Studio, Taiwan
Official site : https://www.originalcable.com/
Official shopping site : http://class.ruten.com.tw/user/index00.php?s=davidboyman&c=0&d=&o=3&m=1&p=1&k=
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/OriginalCableStudio/
- Cross Lambda Audio, Thailand
Official site : http://www.crosslambdaaudio.com/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/crosslambdaaudio/

Remark :
1) Song's audio : Are they still doing business? I checked on their facebook and their last update is about year 2013. Please consider whether get it in this list or move it out.
2) Onso : Basically, they make stock-level cables but provide mmcx, 2.5TRRS, 4.5TRRS plug. Please consider whether get it in or move it out.
3) Acoustune : Obviously, this brand is the one who behind 'Pentaconn' plug brand. If you look at their fb, you will see picture of Mr. Suyang (Effect Audio) was handshaking with an Acoustune Japanese staff. However, currently Acoustune sells only stock-specs cables that come together with their IEM products separately but various plug type e.g. 2.5 mm., 3.5 mm. and 4.4 mm.. 
4) Penon : This is a newcomer brand. Though, their 2 aftermarket OCC-claim cables are made from China. So if you know about how many & where the certified OCC factories in this world, please take it into consideration.


----------



## SeeSax

vegasf1 said:


> Any cable advice for a Sony XBA-Z5? I don't want to go over $1,000, but will if the cable will change my life. LOL  I'd prefer to be around $500 if possible.



I would say that most definitely any cable between $500 and $1,000 will change your life. You will start losing sleep, you will start cable rolling when you wake up before you go to work, you will lie awake at night wondering if you made the right choice, you will break out into a cold sweat thinking "maybe this cable is too good for this IEM and now I need an IEM that costs four times as much as the cable" and last but not least, you will probably wear out at least four or five MMCX sockets sending you into a fit of rage. I mean, I don't speak from experience or anything...

Now in a more reasonable sense, I had (and loved) the Z5 and I tried a few cables with it. My favorite of the bunch was a pure copper Beat Audio cable (the Thor), but that has since been discontinued. I found that one of my favorite attributes of the Z5 was the strong, authoritative bass and pure silver cables seemed to take just a bit away from that. Although if you are looking to tighten up the bass and make it a bit more punchy while retaining that strong sub-bass, a pure silver cable might do just the trick. How do you find the sound signature of the Z5 now? Are you looking to improve or tame any frequencies? It seems like the usual suspects often talked about here might do very good things for the Z5, such as the Whiplash TWau (gold-plated silver), the Thor II Silver from Effect Audio (or Thor II+ for a bit smoother sound) or of course the Leonidas, but you're getting up there in price and the benefits might not be worth it on the Z5. Nothing against the Z5 at all, but I don't remember it being especially sensitive to cable rolling especially going way up in price. 

Another suggestion is the Rhapsodio Luna (warmer silver cable) or perhaps their RSD Silver mk3 (higher resolution, really clean bass and extended treble). 

Sorry for the long-winded reply 

-Collin-


----------



## Wyville (Mar 6, 2018)

SeeSax said:


> I would say that most definitely any cable between $500 and $1,000 will change your life. You will start losing sleep, you will start cable rolling when you wake up before you go to work, you will lie awake at night wondering if you made the right choice, you will break out into a cold sweat thinking "maybe this cable is too good for this IEM and now I need an IEM that costs four times as much as the cable" and last but not least, you will probably wear out at least four or five MMCX sockets sending you into a fit of rage. I mean, I don't speak from experience or anything...


Last night I was lying awake wondering how I might be able to justify buying a $2.5k cable.
...then I thought I could buy a $1k cable and an extra pair of high-end IEMs.
...then I realised that I am at a point in my life where I need to be sensible about spending.
...and now I am having an existential crisis.


----------



## FangJoker

SeeSax said:


> I would say that most definitely any cable between $500 and $1,000 will change your life. You will start losing sleep, you will start cable rolling when you wake up before you go to work, you will lie awake at night wondering if you made the right choice, you will break out into a cold sweat thinking "maybe this cable is too good for this IEM and now I need an IEM that costs four times as much as the cable" and last but not least, you will probably wear out at least four or five MMCX sockets sending you into a fit of rage. I mean, I don't speak from experience or anything...
> 
> Now in a more reasonable sense, I had (and loved) the Z5 and I tried a few cables with it. My favorite of the bunch was a pure copper Beat Audio cable (the Thor), but that has since been discontinued. I found that one of my favorite attributes of the Z5 was the strong, authoritative bass and pure silver cables seemed to take just a bit away from that. Although if you are looking to tighten up the bass and make it a bit more punchy while retaining that strong sub-bass, a pure silver cable might do just the trick. How do you find the sound signature of the Z5 now? Are you looking to improve or tame any frequencies? It seems like the usual suspects often talked about here might do very good things for the Z5, such as the Whiplash TWau (gold-plated silver), the Thor II Silver from Effect Audio (or Thor II+ for a bit smoother sound) or of course the Leonidas, but you're getting up there in price and the benefits might not be worth it on the Z5. Nothing against the Z5 at all, but I don't remember it being especially sensitive to cable rolling especially going way up in price.
> 
> ...




I actually like long replies. I myself sometimes ramble on and on when I get excited about something.

Some of the bass seems to be overpowering, but a lot of my files are old and it could be a bad recording. I also need to replace a lot of my music files that are in mp3 with flac. I have some flec but not as much as I need.

I'm currently burning them in 247 for the past 4 days. I'll probably give them a break for a day then start up for another few days.

I did think about getting that Sony Kimber kable 4.4 and buying the taz amp so choosing a cable would be easier and I did want to upgrade my dac/amp anyway.


SeeSax said:


> I would say that most definitely any cable between $500 and $1,000 will change your life. You will start losing sleep, you will start cable rolling when you wake up before you go to work, you will lie awake at night wondering if you made the right choice, you will break out into a cold sweat thinking "maybe this cable is too good for this IEM and now I need an IEM that costs four times as much as the cable" and last but not least, you will probably wear out at least four or five MMCX sockets sending you into a fit of rage. I mean, I don't speak from experience or anything...
> 
> Now in a more reasonable sense, I had (and loved) the Z5 and I tried a few cables with it. My favorite of the bunch was a pure copper Beat Audio cable (the Thor), but that has since been discontinued. I found that one of my favorite attributes of the Z5 was the strong, authoritative bass and pure silver cables seemed to take just a bit away from that. Although if you are looking to tighten up the bass and make it a bit more punchy while retaining that strong sub-bass, a pure silver cable might do just the trick. How do you find the sound signature of the Z5 now? Are you looking to improve or tame any frequencies? It seems like the usual suspects often talked about here might do very good things for the Z5, such as the Whiplash TWau (gold-plated silver), the Thor II Silver from Effect Audio (or Thor II+ for a bit smoother sound) or of course the Leonidas, but you're getting up there in price and the benefits might not be worth it on the Z5. Nothing against the Z5 at all, but I don't remember it being especially sensitive to cable rolling especially going way up in price.
> 
> ...



I actually like long replies. I sometimes do it myself when I get excited about something.

I like bass, but I feel that it's sometimes overpowering the rest of the music and I can't hear the vocals as much as I think I should be hearing. I do have a mix of flac and some old mp3s that are less than great quality which is also a problem. My new project besides getting a cable is to replace as much old music files as possible with new lossless flac files. 

I have also thought about just getting the 4.4 Kimber kable and buy the Sony Taz dac/amp and the 600 or was it 700 dollar Walkman and fully commit to the Sony ecosystem. It would be easier that way. I have a Google pixel 2 XL and it has a USB c port with no headphone jack. So my mojo is doing nothing right now except for being connected to my PC when I'm at home. So I could be also be looking for another dac/amp or dap for when I'm not at home and another for when I'm at home. I've done this several times already. I buy then don't like it then sell everything then buy everything all over again which is why I got out of this for a few years. But I got my friend hooked into headphones and amps and dacs and he wanted my home setup so I said ok because isn't buying new stuff part of the fun? So I'm starting over again, but still have the mojo left.

I don't mind paying more for a cable than what I paid for the z5 if it gets me the sound to where I think it should be at. I've always liked hybrids which is why I got it and was away from Sony for awhile but wanted to get some of their headphones and earphones to start.


----------



## cthomas

Hey guys, can anyone recommend Acoustune? Looking at buying their ARC03 balanced 4.4mm cable to pair with SE846 and Sony dap.

https://www.spill.hk/headphones/Acoustune-ARC03-review/


----------



## chaiyuta

@cthomas : I ever tried their IEM which comes together with their stock cable. The cable is moderately soft. I didn't hear particular microphonics. From your link, the 4.4 mm plug version, you will get the best grade 4.4 mm. Pentaconn OFC plug.


----------



## cthomas

Yeah that plug is very expensive. Was considering getting a custom cable made with the OFC plug 'til I saw this cable. 

My main concern was stiffness and microphonics, I couldn't find any user reviews so I was going by reviews of their IEM which uses a similar looking cable. A few others have also said it was a good cable. Just looks like it might be a little stiff from the photos I've seen.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

New review of the labkable Titan Au on Headfonia: 
https://www.headfonia.com/review-labkable-titan-au/


----------



## Wyville

Just posted my review of the PlusSound Exo Silver + Gold:

PlusSound Exo Silver + Gold - A Bright Clear Day
​


----------



## Bosk

Wyville would you happen to know if PlusSound's Silver + Gold range of cables utilize the same wire as EA's Leonidas? The way you describe this particular cable's sonics make it seem very similar yet it is less than half the price.


----------



## Deezel177

Bosk said:


> Wyville would you happen to know if PlusSound's Silver + Gold range of cables utilize the same wire as EA's Leonidas? The way you describe this particular cable's sonics make it seem very similar yet it is less than half the price.



The Leonidas is an entirely different cable - both physically and sonically. The PlusSound SG is 99% silver injected with 1% gold. The Leonidas is a silver-and-gold hybrid with a much larger ratio of gold (compared to the PS cable). In terms of sound, the Leonidas has more body in the sub-bass. The PlusSound cable draws more of its impact from a denser, more concentrated mid-bass, while the Leo is rumblier and more visceral. The Leonidas is thicker in the lower-midrange and more laidback as well. The PlusSound SG, by comparison, is more forwardly-placed and upper-midrange-focused. As a result, vocal articulation is cleaner and crisper on the SG, while the Leo is more subdued. The Leo's clarity peak lies in the lower-treble, where the SG is calmer. As a result, there's a _tizziness _in instruments like hi-hats and hotly-mastered vocals, while the SG remains smooth despite its transparency. I find the SG more extended and present in the upper-treble, resulting in an airier response. The Leo is relatively clean as well, but there's a slight attenuation in the upper-treble that gives it a softer feel. However, this comes at the cost of some incoherency with relation to the lower-treble peak.


----------



## Bosk

Thanks for that fantastic answer Deezel!


----------



## azabu

Here's the PW No.5 with Furutech carbon 4.4mm plug, Eidolic connectors and Mundorf solder. I purchased this on a recent trip to Singapore and the guys at Music Sanctuary, bless their hearts, whipped it up on the spot! 

The ergonomics are superb with very soft insulation, and the cable is supple with no memory effect. I couldn't detect any microphonics at all. Will also say the Eidolic connectors are a god send. The pins smoothly slide into all of my iems. 

Sounds like heaven with the Noble Savants and spinfits.


----------



## tim0chan

azabu said:


> Here's the PW No.5 with Furutech carbon 4.4mm plug, Eidolic connectors and Mundorf solder. I purchased this on a recent trip to Singapore and the guys at Music Sanctuary, bless their hearts, whipped it up on the spot!
> 
> The ergonomics are superb with very soft insulation, and the cable is supple with no memory effect. I couldn't detect any microphonics at all. Will also say the Eidolic connectors are a god send. The pins smoothly slide into all of my iems.
> 
> Sounds like heaven with the Noble Savants and spinfits.


Can't find any convenient way to get hold of eidolic parts in sg anymore. They had some in stock?


----------



## audionewbi

If one day I ever find the right IEM that I have fallen inlove with I would certainly include Nideon cable part of my to try list. It is one of those brands that few know, and for a reason because they simply work on limited quantity release.

Recently I heard their NTC-300 cable is running out and once that is done there is no more of them. Sadly cant afford it but such is life.


----------



## azabu

tim0chan said:


> Can't find any convenient way to get hold of eidolic parts in sg anymore. They had some in stock?



The Eidolic connectors were ordered from Trevor at Norne. Very fast shipping so there are some more on the way  They really should be standard on all iem cables.

I'll post some thoughts on the PW No.5 in the next few days, hayfever is in full swing here in Tokyo and I got a fist full of pollen today. Needless to say there were some issues with the PW No.5 initially and Deezel's previous post on ear tips is 100% relevant here.


----------



## SeeSax

Hello cable friends - thought I would post up a recent one I bought from David at Triton Audio Cables. While the price is not high-end, the materials, workmanship and sound quality most certainly are. It is a pure silver cable with Eidolic connectors and an 8-braid design that is very compact and comfortable. The wires are 26awg and while David is most known for his Triton8 hybrid cable (4 wires silver, 4 wires copper), he made this one specially for me. It sounds magnificent on my Unique Melody Mason with a clear, open and very natural sound. Sub-bass clarity is increased over the 4-wire cable I had previously and everything comes together nicely in the top end as well. Overall super pleased with this. 


 

 

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

And then there were two. 

PlusSound Exo Silver + Gold - Fun'esse

*

 
*​


----------



## pithyginger63

idk if i should post this in the help forums, i wanted to ask about 8 wire cables and acrylic ciems. will the weight exhibit pressure on the inside surface of the ear? I'm most interested in the lionheart 8 wire


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> idk if i should post this in the help forums, i wanted to ask about 8 wire cables and acrylic ciems. will the weight exhibit pressure on the inside surface of the ear? I'm most interested in the lionheart 8 wire



No, it won’t. In terms of palpable weight, my 4-wire Ares II+ feels heavier than my 8-wire Lionheart.


----------



## pithyginger63

Deezel177 said:


> No, it won’t. In terms of palpable weight, my 4-wire Ares II+ feels heavier than my 8-wire Lionheart.


ooh, just the man i was looking for, hello kind sir. is the ares ii+ thicker (like, just the overall profile, not the wire gauge) or are they similar in size?


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> ooh, just the man i was looking for, hello kind sir. is the ares ii+ thicker (like, just the overall profile, not the wire gauge) or are they similar in size?



Overall, they’re similar in profile. The Ares II+ just feels heavier because of the looser braid.


----------



## azabu

Deezel177 said:


> And then there were two.
> 
> PlusSound Exo Silver + Gold - Fun'esse
> 
> ...



Great review as always Daniel, I'm waiting for Friday


----------



## ctsooner22

Great thread.  So many cool cables out right now.  I am thinking about getting the soon to be released EA cable.  It's in the Horus series and was so warm and ultra detailed on teh Phantom's, that I really want to give it a spin.


----------



## Deezel177

ctsooner22 said:


> Great thread.  So many cool cables out right now.  I am thinking about getting the soon to be released EA cable.  It's in the Horus series and was so warm and ultra detailed on teh Phantom's, that I really want to give it a spin.



It now has a name: Janus!


----------



## ostewart (Mar 13, 2018)

Just got an Atlas Zeno headphone cable for my HiFiman HE-500 as I really enjoy the Zeno IEM cable

Let's see how it is after some testing


----------



## pithyginger63

just curious, has anyone ever tried the Bling Bling cable from labkable? any pictures?


----------



## ctsooner22

Deezel177 said:


> It now has a name: Janus!



You crack me up! LOL....   I just got a message back from Suyang and Eric telling me it's the Janus this morning. I love it.  Yes, a cool name and to me it was the best cable I heard with the PHantom's.  It's going to be very very special for sure!  I need to get a pair in to review with the Phantom's and the wife's Bravado's. ...


----------



## Barra

Is there a high end full sized HP cable impressions thread? I am looking for a perfect cable for my new HD800 and have more questions than answers after trying out all the CIEM cable options.


----------



## ctsooner22

There are many great cables for cans.  I found a guy in SD, CA who makes what ai feel is a great cable adn not just a great value.  AudioArts is his line.  I like it a lot more than teh Nordost cable which to my ears is too hot on top.  Audioquest is making cables too. They are very very neutral. I think they are on the market. IF not, I'm sorry, but I'm sure they will be soon.  My buddy Vinny Vu makes a new line of Dana HP cables.  He is a great guy to deal with too.  I like his HP cables very much.  Feel free to PM me if you want to.  I've heard many of the HP cables over the years.  What I like about the Audio Arts copper cables with shielding, is that they would be perfect with any Sennheiser can's. I use a 15' run with my ZMF Ori's and they took them to another level.  My buddy uses them with ORi's adn also his Odin's and he feels that they kept the beautiful neutrality and timber, while allowing the dynamics to sound wonderful.  No microphonic when things touch them either, lol.


----------



## PinkyPowers (Mar 13, 2018)

Barra said:


> Is there a high end full sized HP cable impressions thread? I am looking for a perfect cable for my new HD800 and have more questions than answers after trying out all the CIEM cable options.



I'm using the plusSound X6 Tri-Metal for my LCD-2.2F. Amazing depth and energy.

Cardas copper seems to be working great for my HD800. Though I am looking for upgrade ideas.


----------



## Barra

PinkyPowers said:


> I'm using the plusSound X6 Tri-Metal for my LCD-2.2F. Amazing depth and energy.
> 
> Cardas copper seems to be working great for my HD800. Though I am looking for upgrade ideas.


I love the Norne SolvX silver for my LCD2.2. It seems to be a great pairing providing cleaner and higher impact bass and perfects the treble.

For the HD800, it sounds great already with the stock cable alone, but I am guessing after my experience with the 8-wire CIEM cables, that there may be more to give with the right configuration. Now I have a thousand questions. Length, Cryo, silver vs. copper, optimal gauge, wire pattern, core count, and how do I get that thick rich cable look that I have seen at so many meets.


----------



## audio123 (Mar 14, 2018)

Enjoy reading! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/14/luminox-audio-day-for-night/

*Noble Kaiser Encore + Luminox Audio Day For Night*






*Eternal Melody EM-6 + Luminox Audio Day For Night*





*Custom Art FIBAE 2 + Luminox Audio Day For Night*


----------



## ezekiel77

Barra said:


> Is there a high end full sized HP cable impressions thread? I am looking for a perfect cable for my new HD800 and have more questions than answers after trying out all the CIEM cable options.


No headphone cable thread, I've checked lol.

The best cable I've heard for headphones is the Danacable Lazuli Reference. I think it's just thick gauge copper, but I never forgot the sound. Resolute, details but not forced, accurate pinpoint imaging, a cleaner, more expansive stage, and above all it preserves tonal richness and body of the notes, making the listening experience fatigue-free, engaging, and near-orgasmic. My legs turn to jelly every time I think of it and regret the day I sold them (spend way more time on portables so couldn't justify keeping a top-tier cable for occasional listening). The sound impressions are more or less the same across the cans in my collection (800S, LCD-X, HEKv1). The Utopia thread sings praises of this cable too.

My forays in desktop headfi are limited, but I've pitted the cable against the Whiplash TWau (for headphones), ALO Ref 16 and a pure silver cable by Impact Audio. The Impact one I liked the least bcos the sound is brighter, thinner, and a bit artificial. The Ref 16 has a similar signature to the Lazuli Ref with slightly worse soundstaging/imaging capabilities, whereas the TWau is in the same tier as Ref 16 but with a tinge more apparent detail. I do think the Lazuli Ref is a tier above them sound-wise.

The biggest caveat is the girth and weight of the Lazuli Ref. Heavy, thikkkk and not ergonomic. Also the price ain't friendly.


----------



## ctsooner22

Agree   As is said below, Vinny makes a great cable. That’s Dana. I love the Audi arts one also and he uses the best connectors. His fabricator used to work for Audioquest. The body, richness and speed with full extension has been transformative on my ZMF.  



ctsooner22 said:


> There are many great cables for cans.  I found a guy in SD, CA who makes what ai feel is a great cable adn not just a great value.  AudioArts is his line.  I like it a lot more than teh Nordost cable which to my ears is too hot on top.  Audioquest is making cables too. They are very very neutral. I think they are on the market. IF not, I'm sorry, but I'm sure they will be soon.  My buddy Vinny Vu makes a new line of Dana HP cables.  He is a great guy to deal with too.  I like his HP cables very much.  Feel free to PM me if you want to.  I've heard many of the HP cables over the years.  What I like about the Audio Arts copper cables with shielding, is that they would be perfect with any Sennheiser can's. I use a 15' run with my ZMF Ori's and they took them to another level.  My buddy uses them with ORi's adn also his Odin's and he feels that they kept the beautiful neutrality and timber, while allowing the dynamics to sound wonderful.  No microphonic when things touch them either, lol.


----------



## EagleWings (Mar 14, 2018)

ezekiel77 said:


> No headphone cable thread, I've checked lol.
> 
> The best cable I've heard for headphones is the Danacable Lazuli Reference. I think it's just thick gauge copper, but I never forgot the sound. Resolute, details but not forced, accurate pinpoint imaging, a cleaner, more expansive stage, and above all it preserves tonal richness and body of the notes, making the listening experience fatigue-free, engaging, and near-orgasmic. My legs turn to jelly every time I think of it and regret the day I sold them (spend way more time on portables so couldn't justify keeping a top-tier cable for occasional listening). The sound impressions are more or less the same across the cans in my collection (800S, LCD-X, HEKv1). The Utopia thread sings praises of this cable too.
> 
> ...



Thanks for these impressions Lau. Sounds interesting and tempting. I have seen people talk about the Danacable cable for the Utopia, but I never cared to check the price until now. $999 for 2 meters and $1400 for 3 meters. May be for the next year as the Lotoo DAP is going to use up all my funds up this year. 

Nordost is another brand that seems to be popular for headphone cables. 



Barra said:


> Is there a high end full sized HP cable impressions thread? I am looking for a perfect cable for my new HD800 and have more questions than answers after trying out all the CIEM cable options.



For many years, a highly-recommended cable for the HD800 has been the Norne Draug. It started a few years back, when a reviewer compared 3 copper cables (Norne Draug, Forza Copper and TwCu) for the HD800 and announced that the Draug was the best among the 3. After that, I am not sure if anyone even attempted to compare cables for the HD800 and even if they did, it never became popular. A lot of cable manufacturers have entered the game since that comparison, and many new cables with good performances are available in the market today. But there are hardly any impressions or comparisons available. I'd personally love to do a comparison.


----------



## ostewart

Here's a picture of the Atlas Zeno headphone cable


----------



## Wyville

ostewart said:


> Here's a picture of the Atlas Zeno headphone cable


Looks like a nice pair!


----------



## ostewart

Wyville said:


> Looks like a nice pair!



The cable will also fit the Final D8000, Sonorous series, Focal Elear, Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen, Amiron Home and other headphones that use dual 3.5mm jacks which is good.


----------



## Barra

ezekiel77 said:


> No headphone cable thread, I've checked lol.
> 
> The best cable I've heard for headphones is the Danacable Lazuli Reference. I think it's just thick gauge copper, but I never forgot the sound. Resolute, details but not forced, accurate pinpoint imaging, a cleaner, more expansive stage, and above all it preserves tonal richness and body of the notes, making the listening experience fatigue-free, engaging, and near-orgasmic. My legs turn to jelly every time I think of it and regret the day I sold them (spend way more time on portables so couldn't justify keeping a top-tier cable for occasional listening). The sound impressions are more or less the same across the cans in my collection (800S, LCD-X, HEKv1). The Utopia thread sings praises of this cable too.
> 
> ...


You make me want to audition the Danacable, but that price is scary.


----------



## Barra

EagleWings said:


> Thanks for these impressions Lau. Sounds interesting and tempting. I have seen people talk about the Danacable cable for the Utopia, but I never cared to check the price until now. $999 for 2 meters and $1400 for 3 meters.
> 
> 
> 
> For many years, a highly-recommended cable for the HD800 has been the Norne Draug. It started a few years back, when a reviewer compared 3 copper cables (Norne Draug, Forza Copper and TwCu) for the HD800 and announced that the Draug was the best among the 3. After that, I am not sure if anyone even attempted to compare cables for the HD800 and even if they did, it never became popular. A lot of cable manufacturers have entered the game since that comparison, and many new cables with good performances are available in the market today. But there are hardly any impressions or comparisons available. I'd personally love to do a comparison.


I have always liked Trever's work. I have his solv x now for my HEX and my LCD2.2 which is fabulous. I actually asked him in email what his opinion was for pairing on HD800 last night. Would love to tour his work.


----------



## EagleWings

Barra said:


> I have always liked Trever's work. I have his solv x now for my HEX and my LCD2.2 which is fabulous. I actually asked him in email what his opinion was for pairing on HD800 last night. Would love to tour his work.



Count me in if you are able to get one going. Would love to try it. Now that I have started using EQ/True-Fi with my HD800S, I wonder if I should start considering silver cables too.


----------



## flinkenick

Some cable porn from EA!


----------



## Blommen

flinkenick said:


> Some cable porn from EA!



Looking sweeet


----------



## Wyville

Blommen said:


> Looking sweeet


Or perhaps... "Looking sweet and savoury!"


----------



## audio123

First Row: Bispa Kanade, Han Sound Muse II, Luminox Audio Booster Blue
Second Row: Eternal Melody EM-5, Custom Art FIBAE 2, QDC Neptune


----------



## Blommen

audio123 said:


> First Row: Bispa Kanade, Han Sound Muse II, Luminox Audio Booster Blue
> Second Row: Eternal Melody EM-5, Custom Art FIBAE 2, QDC Neptune



Wow!


----------



## pithyginger63

audio123 said:


> First Row: Bispa Kanade, Han Sound Muse II, Luminox Audio Booster Blue
> Second Row: Eternal Melody EM-5, Custom Art FIBAE 2, QDC Neptune


oh, I didn't know custom art made universals


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> oh, I didn't know custom art made universals



They do, but you have to specially request it from them.


----------



## Wyville (Mar 16, 2018)

pithyginger63 said:


> oh, I didn't know custom art made universals


I had my Ei.3 CIEMs reshelled to universals and Piotr did a great job on the universal shells. I have compared them in the past to Shure, just a tiny bit bigger than the se215 and (I think) a better ergonomic shape. No regrets about going that route.

I am not sure why Piotr doesn't advertise them, but they are great with all the custom design options you get with CIEMs. I spoke to my audiologist (Gisele 'Audiologist to the Musicians' Flower, UK distributor for Custom Art) about it and she too felt the universals should be offered more clearly.


----------



## WayneWoondirts

Plussound's new cable is reviewed on Headfonia! 
https://www.headfonia.com/review-plussound-x8-tri-copper/

Enjoy!


----------



## chaiyuta

~IEM Cables news summary~

- Effect Audio revealed a new cable called "Janus" with 2 variants; DYNAMIC and BASSO. Based on pictures, both use the same cable and the same plug. I guess the reason they sound different would be caused by soldering wire.
- Plussound released a new cable called "Tri-Copper" today. Link
- Cross Lambda Audio release a pure copper plug lineup (3.5 mm., 2.5 mm. and 4.4 mm.). This is not new in the world cause Wagnus is the first one who utilize a pure copper plug on their cables, but Wagnus has only 3.5 and 2.5 mm. type. Link


----------



## artpiggo

Ok the question is which one will you get? @chaiyuta


----------



## pithyginger63

Wyville said:


> I had my Ei.3 CIEMs reshelled to universals and Piotr did a great job on the universal shells. I have compared them in the past to Shure, just a tiny bit bigger than the se215 and (I think) a better ergonomic shape. No regrets about going that route.
> 
> I am not sure why Piotr doesn't advertise them, but they are great with all the custom design options you get with CIEMs. I spoke to my audiologist (Gisele 'Audiologist to the Musicians' Flower, UK distributor for Custom Art) about it and she too felt the universals should be offered more clearly.


ooo, I just had an interesting idea. one of the saddest things about customs imo is that when someone asks you if they can try them, you have to explain that they're custom molded to your ear and your friend can't try them unless they go to a store with demo units. if I were to send him my ear molds and ask him to make a universal earphone that would fit within the mold, thereby maximizing my own comfort, then I could share the sound with all my friends who ask! yay!


----------



## pithyginger63

chaiyuta said:


> - Plussound released a new cable called "Tri-Copper" today



oh no I was gonna get an 8 wire effect audio lionheart.... now I'm torn.... someone pls tell me the tri-copper is less suitable for my specific use case scenario situation


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> oh no I was gonna get an 8 wire effect audio lionheart.... now I'm torn.... someone pls tell me the tri-copper is less suitable for my specific use case scenario situation


It's almost the same in terms of composition with Lionheart having spc and gpc. If u have the chance try them pls do, cos I think they may sound pretty similar


----------



## chaiyuta

@artpiggo : Not ready for getting anything yet lol. Though I will consider to use a 4.4 mm. pure copper plug on DIY earbuds purpose first at some time in the future. 
@pithyginger63 : Take it easy. I understand your feeling lol. Tri-Copper is made of pure copper, silver-plated copper and gold plated copper. Its price positioning is a bit less than their flagship, Gold Plated Silver.


----------



## Wyville

pithyginger63 said:


> ooo, I just had an interesting idea. one of the saddest things about customs imo is that when someone asks you if they can try them, you have to explain that they're custom molded to your ear and your friend can't try them unless they go to a store with demo units. if I were to send him my ear molds and ask him to make a universal earphone that would fit within the mold, thereby maximizing my own comfort, then I could share the sound with all my friends who ask! yay!


Not sure if that would be possible. Would be cool, but the universal Custom Art are a standard shell shape and I believe that these days they are 3D printed.


----------



## audio123 (Mar 16, 2018)

World First 3-in-1 Copper Cable with 3 Copper Variants - Copper, Silver Plated Copper & Gold Plated Copper from Plussound!

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/16/plussound-exo-tri-copper/

Enjoy!


----------



## pithyginger63

audio123 said:


> World First 3-in-1 Copper Cable with 3 Copper Variants - Copper, Silver Plated Copper & Gold Plated Copper from Plussound!
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/16/plussound-exo-tri-copper/
> 
> Enjoy!


i cant tell through the pictures that well because my screen sucks. would you say the cable looks more coppery, silvery, or goldy?


----------



## audio123

pithyginger63 said:


> i cant tell through the pictures that well because my screen sucks. would you say the cable looks more coppery, silvery, or goldy?


coppery & silvery! 






(Picture taken from Plussound Facebook Page!)


----------



## pithyginger63

ooo, hello @piotrus-g, seeing as you are online viewing this thread, i wanted to ask a particular question (im not sure if youve answered it before). where/how did you learn to make iems? I find it fascinating and quite interesting


----------



## piotrus-g

pithyginger63 said:


> ooo, hello @piotrus-g, seeing as you are online viewing this thread, i wanted to ask a particular question (im not sure if youve answered it before). where/how did you learn to make iems? I find it fascinating and quite interesting


Haha! I've been pinged by @audio123 to this thread 
I learned it mostly by myself. There's a thread here on head-fi called Home Made IEMs - it's nearly 500pages full of discussion on how to build IEMs - I started posting there before page 20  it's great resource knowledge now. Other than that, lots of passion for IEMs, trying out crazy or out-of-the-box ideas etc. 

To answer the question re universals - we are just not quite ready to go into large scale production of universal fit IEMs, we have a pilot program in place right now for two markets but other than that you can order universal on special request with same customization options as cIEMs.


----------



## Wyville

piotrus-g said:


> To answer the question re universals - we are just not quite ready to go into large scale production of universal fit IEMs, we have a pilot program in place right now for two markets but other than that you can order universal on special request with same customization options as cIEMs.


Thanks for sharing that Piotr! I had been wondering about it. I hope the pilot program will go well and that it can become a viable option in the future. Still enjoy my Ei.3 (listening to them as I write this), so comfortable. All the best for the pilot!


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> oh no I was gonna get an 8 wire effect audio lionheart.... now I'm torn.... someone pls tell me the tri-copper is less suitable for my specific use case scenario situation



What kind of sound are you looking for? Based on @PinkyPowers's review, the Tri-Copper is warm-sounding, but technically excellent. It sounds closer to the 4-wire Lionheart, while the 8-wire variant is more neutral, clean and crisp. I suggest you check out his review here: http://theheadphonelist.com/the-power-of-three-a-review-of-the-plussound-tri-copper/


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> What kind of sound are you looking for? Based on @PinkyPowers's review, the Tri-Copper is warm-sounding, but technically excellent. It sounds closer to the 4-wire Lionheart, while the 8-wire variant is more neutral, clean and crisp. I suggest you check out his review here: http://theheadphonelist.com/the-power-of-three-a-review-of-the-plussound-tri-copper/


While reading Pinky's review I was thinking the exact same thing, that is sounds like the Tri-Copper is quite similar to Lionheart. But then Linus' review of the Tri-Copper X8 seemed like it was the Exo on steroids, rather than providing a different sound along the lines of the Lionheart 4-wire vs 8-wire.


----------



## pithyginger63

Deezel177 said:


> What kind of sound are you looking for? Based on @PinkyPowers's review, the Tri-Copper is warm-sounding, but technically excellent. It sounds closer to the 4-wire Lionheart, while the 8-wire variant is more neutral, clean and crisp. I suggest you check out his review here: http://theheadphonelist.com/the-power-of-three-a-review-of-the-plussound-tri-copper/


ooo, time for coffee


----------



## Barra

12t/trio - US Tour Update
Good news, the tour kits for our 12t/trio tour are on the way. I am setting up a tour thread for signups now and will launch this weekend...... stay tuned!


----------



## PinkyPowers

I was too busy yesterday to officially share my Tri-Copper review. But here it is.

*The Power of Three – A Review of the plusSound Tri-Copper*
 ​


----------



## Barra

Something to go with our expensive cables........ just sayin' 

Announcing - 64 Audio Trio/12t CIEM Demo, US Tour Signups
Here we go again! Starting signups now.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/64-audio-us-ciem-demo-tour-trio-and-12t-starting-march-2018.874900/


----------



## cuemastermind

Dingding123 said:


> Just got the Han Sound Redcore. Oh doesn't it look pretty!
> 
> 
> Brief first impression
> ...





Dingding123 said:


> Just got the Han Sound Redcore. Oh doesn't it look pretty!
> 
> 
> Brief first impression
> ...


hello how it sound compare to leonnidas? I like to buy this cable for my rhapsodio galaxy v2 my galaxy is a bit sibilant sometimes i use comply tip to fix it but reduce the details at high. Thanks


----------



## Dingding123

it sounds less focus and intimate compared to the leonidas. The soundstage is wider too.


----------



## Bosk

What would be a reasonable lifetime to expect out of a high-end IEM cable that is used (and not abused) every day? Given some cables can fetch up to $2k it would be interesting to hear thoughts on how durable they generally are.


----------



## Deezel177

Bosk said:


> What would be a reasonable lifetime to expect out of a high-end IEM cable that is used (and not abused) every day? Given some cables can fetch up to $2k it would be interesting to hear thoughts on how durable they generally are.



My Ares II+ is about a year-and-a-half old now, and it still holds up to normal use.


----------



## tim0chan

Deezel177 said:


> My Ares II+ is about a year-and-a-half old now, and it still holds up to normal use.


How abt the stiffness? Do u wipe it often? I heard that it stiffens due to body sweat


----------



## Deezel177

tim0chan said:


> How abt the stiffness? Do u wipe it often? I heard that it stiffens due to body sweat



Stiffness has definitely gotten somewhat worse (though I believe this isn't the same insulation used in their newer wires), but it's still *very* usable IMO. The slight visual tarnish is more noticeable than any ergonomic change.


----------



## pithyginger63 (Mar 25, 2018)

Deleted


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> has anyone tried the w26 cable from oriolus?
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/accessories/...26-upgrade-cable.html?sort=p.price&order=DESC
> 
> ...


That's not the Lionheart


----------



## pithyginger63

of course not, just looks similar


----------



## hybridnut

Looking forward to seeing Janus review


----------



## pithyginger63

I know buying cables should be more focused on tweaks in sound, but for a budget of 600 usd, what are the most conspicuous, most showy, most flamboyant, most in your face, most "wow look at that" cables I can get? (too be shown off everywhere) to be paired with an a12t

not too big a budget but i'm in the midst of saving. (damn i wish the silverfi iem r series were cheaper, i don't have the patience to save that much... any good samaritans with an r1 willing to send to taiwan and also lose 400 usd? who has white wrapping on all the connectors? I'm a picky beggar )


----------



## chaiyuta

pithyginger63 said:


> and doesn't this look a lot like effect audio's lionheart cable...
> 
> http://www.crosslambdaaudio.com/product/cl-stardust/



CL stardust sound is totally different from Lionheart.


----------



## chaiyuta

Did anyone go to CanJam SG and try Han Sound Aegis 2018? Based on its specs, it sounds promising.


----------



## pithyginger63

im interested in the aegis as well, i live in taiwan and i know where their store is


----------



## rtjoa

Testing Brimar cables at Can Jam


----------



## chaiyuta

@rtjoa : Which model of Brimar brand do you like most? How about the newest one, rodium plated something?


----------



## rtjoa

chaiyuta said:


> @rtjoa : Which model of Brimar brand do you like most? How about the newest one, rodium plated something?


I really like Ultima as it is more dynamic and musical. Omni King is good for quite listening session. I don't like that Rhodium plated but it might be good for fast music.


----------



## pithyginger63

iirc, the brimar cables are all quite expensive?


----------



## ezekiel77

pithyginger63 said:


> iirc, the brimar cables are all quite expensive?



Their prices aren't too bad


----------



## rtjoa (Mar 30, 2018)

ezekiel77 said:


> Their prices aren't too bad


The website has not been updated and there are several cables not listed there: Ultima, Omni King, Kaiser and Rhodium plated.

The prices are not too bad for what you are getting and there is something special about their cables. Please give it a try when you see them. The owner is a very nice person and you will enjoy talking to him.

The Ultima 10 braided is about $5k.


----------



## artpiggo (Mar 30, 2018)

I also love Brimar cable's sound signature. For me, Brimar Sup Ref 4 braided has the highest pound for pound (for High-End cable).

Even though there are a lot of newer model of cable coming out, I still stick with Brimar. I don't know what magic they use though.

If you have chance to go to any CanJam Event, try it once. I would like to see feedbacks from other users as well.


----------



## tim0chan

artpiggo said:


> I also love Brimar cable's sound signature. For me, Brimar Sup Ref 4 braided has the highest pound for pound (for High-End cable).
> 
> Even though there are a lot of newer model of cable coming out, I still stick with Brimar. I don't know what magic they use though.
> 
> If you have chance to go to any CanJam Event, try it once. I would like to see feedbacks from other users as well.


i wanna see them use magic to lower the prices or at least develop a lower cost line


----------



## artpiggo

tim0chan said:


> i wanna see them use magic to lower the prices or at least develop a lower cost line



You can try its starter with silver plated copper line.


----------



## audio123

The OC Studio Montana! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/06/oc-studio-montana/


----------



## eugene2

I’ve been experimenting with some lower priced cables that seem pretty good.  I need some help understanding iem cable pricing.  I’m no neophyte when it comes to high price cable in my big rig, i use some extremely high priced silver cable by Verastarr, but my speakers cost multiples more than my cable.  
it’s hard for me to understand 1500-5000 cable for iems costing even up to 3000 like my JH Audio Layla’s or my Noble Encores or the 64 Audio 18t or Tia’s.  The disparity in pricing is head scratching also.  Penon, OC Studio and others make some very nicely constructed cables using silver, copper, gold plated silver and copper, etc., at very reasonable prices, other companies use similar materials and charge up to 10 times more.  My question is the difference exponentially better?  After using EA EOS cables on my Layla’s I aspire to move up stream is it worth it?  I just picked up Penon GS 849 gold plated silver and copper cable and at first blush they sound damn good for under 200. US.  The silver and copper OC Cable also sound fantastic.  What happens to my Encores or Layla’s with the Horus, or 5k Brimar Cable’s?  Not being facetious just trying to get a solid explanation...


----------



## chaiyuta

@eugene2 : My answer might not direct to your question. I ever tried OC UE+ 8-wire, OC Grace 2 8-wire, OC Aux 8-wire. Luckiy that I did Blind buy on OC Aux 8-wire and I still like it most (Before purchased, I demoed OC Grace 2 first but I found I want to increase bass quantity) whereas some prefers OC Grace 2 most. I would like to try Penon Cable demo as well, but there is no local distrubutor here. If I want, I have to blind-buy and cross my fingers. The fact that Penon Cable are made in China keep me avoid them cause I know that there is no OCC-certified factory established in China. Though if it sounds very good and suit my liking, I don't care which and where or cable metal/structure info specs. For Brimar, I have a chance to try many models e.g. the prince 8-wire, absolute, monarch, supreme ref 4, kaiser 8-wire, the grand 8-wire. Among all I like the prince (SPC) for the budget price per performance and it escalates impact and snappy speedy to enchance 64audio U8 sound signature pretty well, and Kaiser. My friend one prefers Absolute most and The Grand, and Mr. artpiggo prefers supreme ref 4 most and I do agree when pairing with his 64Audio U12. For such high-price tier cables, I do recommend you avoid blind buying as possible. Bring your own system (source, earphones) and do demo audition at nearby store or any audio event show. It will worth its price or not. It really depend on individual preference and synergy matching. If you look around in Effect Audio thread, you might see one Head-Fier named Rei87. He keep do further modify his EA Horus to meet his SQ criteria. Is it worth for him? I think it is greatly worth. But for others.. I never see anybody did it before especially with Flagship-level upgraded cable. Hope this helps~


----------



## azabu

eugene2 said:


> I’ve been experimenting with some lower priced cables that seem pretty good.  I need some help understanding iem cable pricing.  I’m no neophyte when it comes to high price cable in my big rig, i use some extremely high priced silver cable by Verastarr, but my speakers cost multiples more than my cable.
> it’s hard for me to understand 1500-5000 cable for iems costing even up to 3000 like my JH Audio Layla’s or my Noble Encores or the 64 Audio 18t or Tia’s.  The disparity in pricing is head scratching also.  Penon, OC Studio and others make some very nicely constructed cables using silver, copper, gold plated silver and copper, etc., at very reasonable prices, other companies use similar materials and charge up to 10 times more.  My question is the difference exponentially better?  After using EA EOS cables on my Layla’s I aspire to move up stream is it worth it?  I just picked up Penon GS 849 gold plated silver and copper cable and at first blush they sound damn good for under 200. US.  The silver and copper OC Cable also sound fantastic.  What happens to my Encores or Layla’s with the Horus, or 5k Brimar Cable’s?  Not being facetious just trying to get a solid explanation...



Hey Eugene, you really need to audition the cables with your iems to find the signature match you like best. There are a lot of good reviewers on head-fi and they can point you in the right direction. Cost is part of the equation, just don't expect cost to equal performance. 

I have the Noble Encores as well and was able to audition the entire lineup of Effect Audio cables. The cables all have different signatures. For me, I was considering everything up to the Mars. Out of all the cables I found the Lionheart to have the best synergy with the Noble Encores, it's a refined and harmonious cable with superb resolution and soundstage rendering, nice balance between all the frequency bands (treble does run a little hot with the spinfits) with a delicate warmth and long note decay. It's a gem.


----------



## twister6

Here is my take on @PLUSSOUND Tri-Copper cable.  Full review is HERE.


----------



## eugene2

I understand auditioning when possible, even though most of the time it’s not possible to get an audition where I live.  I missed a great opportunity while I was in Tokyo.  My question was more towards price to performance ratio.  Anyway thanks.


----------



## Sylanthra

flinkenick has a post at the beginning of this thread that describes in broad terms what sort of impact to expect from cables in different price categories. I only have two cables, so I am by no means an expert, but I've tried SilverFi IEM-X and Effect Audio Horus. No Horus is not 3x better than IEM-X, but than neither is a 3k iem 3x better than a 1k iem. The price to performance curve is not linear, but you do get better performance as you move up the price scale.


----------



## proedros

snake oil / diminishing returns 

the 2 terms you need to always keep in mind when in search for a totl cable

happy hunting


----------



## spw1880

Most brands have lower priced cables in their range also..so if the higher tier price performance ratio is not acceptable to you then there are plenty in the mid tier or lower tier price cables to try as well. 

I have 3 silver cables all differently priced and 2 coppers. Another 2 alloy and plated..all different sounds. Cables are in equal measure subjective as well as objective. 

But i will say that even though cables made in asia..namely singapore HK taiwan japan are very competent and high quality, i believe they should have more aesthetic options in the form of sleeves and splitters especially for the price of the higher end. Cables made in USA such as DHC and norne plussound may not have the best sounding cables for all setups(no brand does) but they do give the choices of sleeves and splitters. Aesthetic Customisation should be on the list especially for high end cables. Same as ciems at least. IMO


----------



## Deezel177

spw1880 said:


> Most brands have lower priced cables in their range also..so if the higher tier price performance ratio is not acceptable to you then there are plenty in the mid tier or lower tier price cables to try as well.
> 
> I have 3 silver cables all differently priced and 2 coppers. Another 2 alloy and plated..all different sounds. Cables are in equal measure subjective as well as objective.
> 
> But i will say that even though cables made in asia..namely singapore HK taiwan japan are very competent and high quality, i believe they should have more aesthetic options in the form of sleeves and splitters especially for the price of the higher end. Cables made in USA such as DHC and norne plussound may not have the best sounding cables for all setups(no brand does) but they do give the choices of sleeves and splitters. Aesthetic Customisation should be on the list especially for high end cables. Same as ciems at least. IMO



PWAudio’s new releases are a great example of this balance. I’ll post impressions of their new products here once I finish my CanJam SG 2018 article, but their entry-level Saladin was very impressive for its price. Warm, rounded and decently clear (the 8-wire Saladin+ performed better in this regard), it was probably one of my highlights of the show. Peter Wong also brought along new, metallic Y-splits which I think highlight their aesthetics in a beautiful manner.


----------



## spw1880

Deezel177 said:


> PWAudio’s new releases are a great example of this balance. I’ll post impressions of their new products here once I finish my CanJam SG 2018 article, but their entry-level Saladin was very impressive for its price. Warm, rounded and decently clear (the 8-wire Saladin+ performed better in this regard), it was probably one of my highlights of the show. Peter Wong also brought along new, metallic Y-splits which I think highlight their aesthetics in a beautiful manner.


Looking 4ward to your impressions of the saladin. Some pic please also. Thanks


----------



## eugene2 (Mar 31, 2018)

Excellently constructed lower priced cables from OC Studios their flat UP OCC copper and UP OCC silver 8 strand Monarch cable, and up occ Silver Zeus cables on the Noble Wizard Sage both cables under 250.00  USD.  The Noble  Encore are wearing the beautifully constructed Gold plated silver and copper Penon cables (under 200 USD) Effect Audio EOS on the Layla and their Ares II on the Noble Savant.  I’m probably going to sell some of my stuff to try some of the up market cables.


----------



## chaiyuta

@eugene2 Nice pics. Keep sharing your own cables picture to poison all of us here.


----------



## audio123

Han Sound Zen Review - https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/04/02/han-sound-zen/

Enjoy reading!


----------



## vrockz (Apr 6, 2018)

Slightly off topic. Does anyone know of any JH Audio 4-pin High End cables other than Moon audio.


----------



## kubig123 (Apr 7, 2018)

vrockz said:


> Slightly off topic. Does anyone know of any JH Audio 4-pin High End cables other than Moon audio.



Here is a list of companies that offer cables with the 4 pin JH connector

Effect Audio
PW Audio (Music Sanctuary)
Has Sound Audio (Music Sanctuary)
Whiplash
Nocturnal Audio
Beat Audio Lab
Null Audio
Double Helix
Labkable
Plussound


----------



## vrockz

kubig123 said:


> Here is a list of companies that offer cables with the 4 pin JH connector
> 
> Effect Audio
> PW Audio (Music Sanctuary)
> ...


Thanks for the response Kubig123.


----------



## tim0chan

vrockz said:


> Thanks for the response Kubig123.


He missed plussound and many others.. actually, most manufacturers offer JH 4 pin... It just depends on what u want from the cable?


----------



## kubig123

tim0chan said:


> He missed plussound and many others.. actually, most manufacturers offer JH 4 pin... It just depends on what u want from the cable?



you are absolutely right, forgot Plussound, just edited.

if you want to contribute to the list, please be my guest!


----------



## proedros

speaking of TOTL cables , someone is selling his amazing cable *SilverFi IEM-R5 *almost 1000$ lowered

*https://www.head-fi.org/threads/silverfi-iem-r5-3-5mm-2-pin-78mm-iem-cable-non-recessed.876616/*


----------



## audionewbi

Does anyone know who can make me a ck100pro cable?


----------



## seeteeyou

I just read something about Rosenkranz HP-K's Element from King Rudi group on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1576008759358483/permalink/1828077634151593/

http://e-earphone.blog/?p=1269884
http://blog.livedoor.jp/kaisersound/archives/24573153.html
http://blog.livedoor.jp/kaisersound/archives/25412736.html
https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201802/14/43299.html

















250,000 yen plus 20,000 tax

http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000188720
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000188721
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000188722
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000188723
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000188724
http://www.e-earphone.jp/shopdetail/000000188725


----------



## audio123

Penon GS849! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/penon-gs849/


----------



## meomap

audio123 said:


> Penon GS849!
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/penon-gs849/



Hi,
Is this cable requires burn in time?
I just got .
Sounds terrible with K10C and Sony 1Z:
Bass so bloom, mids kind of broken up, treble is so and so.
Soundstage is getting wider and deeper.
However after 20 minutes, all signatures are in control a little bit.
I just wonder if how many 100 hrs of burn in for this cable. 

I use DHC Silver braid 8 cable for 10C and sounds incredible out of box.
I am plugging that cable for Encore and buy another cable for 10C.
I have alo ref 8 for 10C but not happy yet. This cable cost a little but more than Penon.


----------



## twister6

meomap said:


> Hi,
> Is this cable requires burn in time?
> I just got .
> Sounds terrible with K10C and Sony 1Z:
> ...



One thing to keep in mind, a few people already reported this, some of OS849 and GS849 cables had one of the 2pin connectors soldered backward.  Not a big deal since there is no memory wire, so it's a matter of just flipping either Right or Left connector (but NOT both, just one needs to be flipped).  Usually, 2 pin plastic housing mold has a groove on one side, pointing out when you connect the cable.  If you are hearing weird sound effect (phaising effect), try to flip one of the connectors so the groove points in.  See if that helps.


----------



## meomap

twister6 said:


> One thing to keep in mind, a few people already reported this, some of OS849 and GS849 cables had one of the 2pin connectors soldered backward.  Not a big deal since there is no memory wire, so it's a matter of just flipping either Right or Left connector (but NOT both, just one needs to be flipped).  Usually, 2 pin plastic housing mold has a groove on one side, pointing out when you connect the cable.  If you are hearing weird sound effect (phaising effect), try to flip one of the connectors so the groove points in.  See if that helps.



Thanks.  I will look into it .


----------



## Deezel177

Hey guys, I just posted my CanJam SG 2018 article on TheHeadphoneList.com, which you can check out HERE. Below are excerpts from the article detailing PWAudio's latest series of cables, including their co-flagship 1950s. I also wrote impressions of Effect Audio's two Janus cables, which you can check out on their official thread soon. Cheers! 

*PWAudio*

PWAudio – in a sort of roundabout way – takes us back to Music Sanctuary’s humble six-booth-and-eight-table-wide abode, where Peter Wong himself unveiled an entirely new line-up of cables to complement his already-impressive repertoire. Along with the default 4-wire Saladin, Loki and Xerxes were 8-wire variants denoted by a “+” at the end of their respective names. I only auditioned the Saladin+, but I assume the differences between it and the Saladin can be loosely applied to the two other cables as well. Finally, I also got to audition Peter’s new co-flagship cable – the 1950s. Although the ergonomics and aesthetics of the insulation were yet to be finalised, the sonics were *definitely* production standard. Only available in its 4-wire (8-core) variant and priced *just* a hair above the 4-wire 1960s, the 1950s is a luxury item through and through.

​
*PWAudio Saladin:* The Saladin is what looks like a copper-silver hybrid within cable’s individual cores. Sonically though, it assumes the spiritual successor to Peter Wong’s highly-acclaimed No. 5 cable. Like the No. 5, the Saladin excels at organicity because of its natural timbre. The Saladin’s richness stems from its elevated low-end. Although its impact is more natural than it is _basshead_-inclined, the Saladin’s bass is warm, bloomy and buttery in texture. A calmed treble response allows this richness to fill the stage, infusing midrange notes with proper body as well as an exquisite tone. The Saladin presents vocals and instruments alike with great intimacy and forwardness.

Due to an accentuated lower-midrange, the Saladin is chestier than it is articulative or sparkly. But, energy in the lower-treble aids clarity, imbuing the Saladin with proper technical performance beyond just sheer musicality. Top-end extension is where the Saladin falters a tad. Although its upper-treble roll-off is crucial in determining its tone, I can’t help but hear a lack of finesse in separation and organisation. The Saladin’s presentation isn’t the neatest, but it wins *big*in naturalness, engagement and tone. It’s an incredibly admirable effort as far as entry-level cables are concerned, and its signature alone will find tons of admiration across the globe.

*PWAudio Saladin+: *Where the Saladin wavers, the Saladin+ absolutely shines. The 8-wire variant of the cable retains its inherent signature: Warm, rich and tonally accurate with a mid-bass bias. But, where the Saladin+ truly improves is – crucially – treble extension. Generously infusing the stage with headroom, the Saladin+ performs excellently in stage stability, openness and left-right separation whilst maintaining a gorgeous, warm timbre. Mid-bass jabs are now paired with airy and spacious undertones – serving up a baby version of the clear and layered low-end response present in the flagship 1950s. Midrange notes no longer feel _too full_, as the stage around them expands decently in all directions. Fortunately, vocals and instruments alike still maintain the same sense of density and richness. The treble – again – gains in extension to produce more articulate, refined and transparent notes. Linearity is maintained as to not mess with timbre – concluding the Saladin+ as an admirable performer in both timbre and technicality.

​
*PWAudio Loki: *Externally, the Loki looks like a pure silver cable. But, the documentation I was shown suggests some amount of copper in there as well. Some form of miscommunication might have occurred, but nevertheless, the Loki is a definite sonic departure from Peter Wong’s single-crystal silver cable. While the latter was particularly renowned for its mellowness and warmth, the Loki’s sonic palate resembles the more stereotypical _silver sound_: Bright, fast and clear. But, that *doesn’t* mean it’s not a signature done well. The Loki is a stellar choice for listeners looking for vocal clarity.

A lift in the presence region and the upper-treble boosts clarity, articulation, openness and air. The Loki is the brightest in tone out of all four PWAudio cables, but a skilfully controlled lower-treble prevents any form of sibilance whatsoever. The Loki’s low-end is controlled – especially in the mid-bass and sub-bass. A decent amount of warmth present in the upper-bass is crucial in making sure the signature never comes across as _sterile_ or _clinical_. Low-end extension is decent, but the Loki certainly relies on heavier-and-denser-sounding transducers to truly shine. Nevertheless, it’s another brilliant effort from Peter Wong that *finally* gives PWAudio a winning entry in the speedy, clarity-focused space.

*PWAudio Xerxes: *The Xerxes is a triple-metal hybrid consisting of silver, copper and gold in varying quantities. But, sonically, it’s a bit of a chimera in performance as well. Although it has its own set flavour, the Xerxes is a cable that juggles multiple elements in the hopes of executing them all with minimal compromise. The first of which is vocal density and clarity. By attenuating the warmth of the bass and accentuating lower-midrange body, the Xerxes boosts vocal presence whilst instilling a brighter tone. But, richness and body – its second aspect – are maintained through excellent top-end control. Linear and well-extended, the Xerxes adds just enough sparkle for clarity’s sake, but remains smooth at all times. Finally, stage transparency benefits from the leaner presentation. At the end of the day, the Xerxes is a cable you won’t necessarily enjoy if you’re looking for a full and thump-y low-end. But, if you’re looking for a balance between butteriness, finesse and headroom, then the Xerxes will serve you well.

​
*PWAudio 1950s: *The 1950s was – without a doubt – Peter Wong’s showstopper. Designed in an effort to star with the 1960s as the brand’s co-flagship, it represents PWAudio’s alternative approach towards transparency. While the previous singular flagship was defined by a well-extended-and-accentuated top-end, growly, well-textured lows and a spacious, voluminous stage, the 1950s offers a natural signature more colourless – or _neutral_ – in tone. Let’s start with what I consider to be the 1950s’ strongest element: Bass response. The 1950s presents its low-end with an unprecedented balance between resolution, air and tone. Low-end slams are physical, visceral and organically warm, but excellent treble extension surrounds each punch with an open layer of air. As a result, every time the bass hits, powerful impact comes equipped with strong definition and smooth clarity; a dynamic-yet-mature presentation in every respect.

Like the 1960s, the 1950s has a lower-midrange-focused instrumental response. Vocals gain bodily texture as a result, along with richness stemming from the upper-bass. Though, the 1950s’ lower-midrange emphasis isn’t as strong as the one found on the 1960s, resulting in instruments that sound complete and well-resolved without the risk of sounding nasal-y on specific tracks. A light rise in the lower-treble aids articulation and clarity, but again, this aberration isn’t as apparent as the one on the 1960s. As I said previously, a neutral-natural response with minimal colour is the goal here. The treble region is as technically impressive as it is engagingly smooth. Fantastic extension and admirable linearity reprise the 1960s’ _surround _stage. The former PWAudio flagship sounds airier because of an upper-treble lift, while the 1950s maintains a blacker background and a more engaging soundscape. Headroom is as plentiful as always to allow for smooth and easy listening, whilst simultaneously allowing the low-end to perform as beautifully as it does.


----------



## audio123

Han Sound Entry Level Cables! 
Enjoy Reading 
*
Han Sound Muse II *
"The Muse II is a fantastic silver plated copper cable that improves clarity and there is more emphasis on the top end. The sound is exciting with a high level of details retrieval. It pairs well with warmer sounding iems.The Han Sound Muse II is a cable to consider as it is able to elevate the overall sonic performance."
Full Review @ Muse II

*Han Sound Zen*
"The Zen is a smooth sounding copper cable that is able to provide warmth which helps to accentuate the naturalness. There is good control with great cleanliness offered. It is able to strike a good balance and deliver a warm yet clean sound. The Han Sound Zen is a cable that displays great finesse and creates a more relaxing listen."
Full Review @ Zen


----------



## hybridnut

Could anyone suggest the best matching cable with A18/U18t?


----------



## audio123

Modular Workshop Fire Review! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/04/20/modular-workshop-fire/


----------



## noplsestar

hybridnut said:


> Could anyone suggest the best matching cable with A18/U18t?


Depends on which direction you want your IEM flavor to go! Many times the PW #5 was mentioned. But if you got the money I have heard the „Horus“ is no slouch either. But I haven’t heard them, just telling you what I read somewhere else.


----------



## pithyginger63

isn't the Horus basically the god of cables atm?


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> isn't the Horus basically the god of cables atm?



In price, yes, but its leaner signature won’t make it a universally-pair-able cable.


----------



## kubig123

New baby in the house, PWaudio Saladin, love how it widens the soundstage and extend nicely the treble, perhaps the best cable (yet?) for the Fibae3.


----------



## Deezel177

kubig123 said:


> New baby in the house, PWaudio Saladin, love how it widens the soundstage and extend nicely the treble, perhaps the best cable (yet?) for the Fibae3.



I see you got the + version, very nice pick!  This was one of my favourite cables at CanJam SG and I can't wait to revisit it sometime in the future. Enjoy, man!


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> I see you got the + version, very nice pick!  This was one of my favourite cables at CanJam SG and I can't wait to revisit it sometime in the future. Enjoy, man!



Yes, I went for the 8 wire, I have to say it's a notch better that the Eros II+ when I use it with the F3.


----------



## pithyginger63

kubig123 said:


> New baby in the house, PWaudio Saladin, love how it widens the soundstage and extend nicely the treble, perhaps the best cable (yet?) for the Fibae3.


is that silver and copper?


----------



## kubig123

pithyginger63 said:


> is that silver and copper?


Yep!


----------



## pithyginger63

what matters more, wire material or wire count? I haven't had the chance to audition any cables but I read that increasing wire count generally increases performance.


----------



## ChrisSC

pithyginger63 said:


> what matters more, wire material or wire count? I haven't had the chance to audition any cables but I read that increasing wire count generally increases performance.



Audiophiles have been debating whether or not cables make a difference since before Jesus Christ, so I don't think you'll find a definitive answer here. My opinion:

Wire _quality_ matters most- get something with high purity from an honest cable maker. Anyone who claims to make a 7n silver cable is probably lying.

Increasing wire count generally increases performance, but there might not be an audible effect in headphone/iem cables because sound travels such a short distance between dap and headphones/iems. The absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence though and you'll find plenty of well-respected audiophiles (paging: Dr. Nic) who find there is a difference that manufacturers manipulate to get certain sound characteristics for their cables. Best thing to do is demo some cables and see if _you_ hear a difference.


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> what matters more, wire material or wire count? I haven't had the chance to audition any cables but I read that increasing wire count generally increases performance.



Both influence the overall cable’s sound for sure, but the proportion is highly dependent on the manufacturer and their processes. Higher wire counts also don’t guarantee “better” performance, especially subjectively-speaking. I personally love the 4-wire Lionheart considerable more than the 8-wire, the signature of my 2-wire 1960s is more agreeable than that of the 4-wire, etc.


----------



## flinkenick (Apr 22, 2018)

pithyginger63 said:


> what matters more, wire material or wire count? I haven't had the chance to audition any cables but I read that increasing wire count generally increases performance.


Determining the quality of cables is a very complex matter, since there are a lot of variables that interact and contribute in different ways. If it's just choosing between wire material (e.g. silver versus copper) and wire count (e.g. 4 vs 8 wire), I would say those are probably the least relevant factors 

More important is the wire _quality _(e.g. purity, single crystal core, OCC, cryo, etc.) regardless of its material (a copper can be better than a silver and vice versa), and the strand count or geometry: how many individual tiny wires make up one large wire, and their diameter. An individual wire can consist of 10 small strands, or 80, or even 200. This number, combined with the quality of the material, will be a primary factor determining the price and performance. In addition, the connectors and solder will also influence the signature and performance.

When it comes to number of wires, it's a bit like BA count in iems. It has a large and easy appeal to think that an 8-wire cable is better than a 4-wire cable, but this only holds true when it is applied to the same wire (a random 8-wire is not better than a random 4-wire). Even then, it doesn't always have to be the case. Sometimes there is an improvement in performance or change in signature, but this is not automatically so. There are some pretty impressive multi-wire cables like the Labkable Titan and SilverFi IEM-R4/R5 with resp. 10 and 12 wires, but these cables were designed this way rather than just being doubled-up versions, so it's hard to attribute their performance (primarily) to the wire count.


----------



## artpiggo

Insulator used is also necessary.

But price range can tell the quality trend most just not in linear trend.


----------



## 284033

kubig123 said:


> Yep!



The Saladin and Saladin+ are single crystal copper and single crystal silver plated copper litz cable.


----------



## artpiggo

Cross Lambda, a newly-born cable brand from Thailand, is going to prove their quality and service on global market. If you see the brand in any audiophile event, please give it a try.


----------



## audio123 (Apr 27, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> Cross Lambda, a newly-born cable brand from Thailand, is going to prove their quality and service on global market. If you see the brand in any audiophile event, please give it a try.



Cross Lambda Stardust Review 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/04/28/cross-lamba-stardust/


----------



## junix (Apr 29, 2018)

I'm currently on SP1000Cu+*Lionheart*+U18t .. and I honestly love the combo.

The question now is to Horus or not to Horus? 

Anybody tried SP1000Cu+*Horus*+U/A18t?
I’m afraid the combo will become a bit too bright..

What else can I use to “go in the other direction” (of the Lionheart) without exaggerating?
PW 1960? ..?


----------



## koluludome

junix said:


> I'm currently on SP100Cu+*Lionheart*+U18t .. and I honestly love the combo.
> 
> The question now is to Horus or not to Horus?
> 
> ...



Both 1960s and Horus will give you an edgy sound since upper mid is too prominent (at least to my ears) eventhough more micro detail will show more than other cable.

I do love Venom from Hansound Audio since it give more relaxed sound with liquid gold vocal.

If you have 8 braids Lionheart already, it not necessary to upgrade the cable. Unless you want other signature. Montana from OC is good warm one.


----------



## junix

koluludome said:


> Both 1960s and Horus will give you an edgy sound since upper mid is too prominent (at least to my ears) eventhough more micro detail will show more than other cable.
> 
> I do love Venom from Hansound Audio since it give more relaxed sound with liquid gold vocal.
> 
> If you have 8 braids Lionheart already, it not necessary to upgrade the cable. Unless you want other signature. Montana from OC is good warm one.


Thnx!
I have the “old Lionheart”, 4 braids, and it smoothens a bit the SP+U18t combo.
Really enjoying it.

Not looking for an upgrade.. more looking for something “edgier” than the Lion with more micro details retrieval (for when I fee like it) but I’m afraid both 1960 and Horus will be a bit too much.

Venom.. will be in Spore in 2 weeks and will try it in Music Sanctuary.
How comfortable do you find it?

I was looking at Effect Audio as their cables are IMHO extremely comfortable, very flexible.. they just disappear.

Was also thinking if the *Leonidas* would squeeze out just the right amount of details without becoming harsh (Leo is more gentle on the wallet than Horus  )


----------



## koluludome

Venom's treble won't sound edgy as you may looking for but it's smooth as real silk. It seems like a dark sounding cable but I count it as an advantage since every instruments sound so individual and background are pitchblack(maybe effect from seperated ground cable)

But since you look for a little brighter. Venom won't suite you.

Leonidas should do


----------



## koluludome

Any impression or review on DHC Elite 19 ?


----------



## Bosk

Would anyone happen to know if the use of nylon sleeving tends to improve or degrade the sonic performance of IEM cables? I've noticed few popular IEM cables seem to be sleeved yet it is very popular with headphone cables.


----------



## ctsooner22

Bosk said:


> Would anyone happen to know if the use of nylon sleeving tends to improve or degrade the sonic performance of IEM cables? I've noticed few popular IEM cables seem to be sleeved yet it is very popular with headphone cables.



It depends on the implementation.  Is it being used as a RF/EMI shield?  Is is there to cut down or eliminate microphonic that can happen with some delicate wires?  Just depends on the cable.


----------



## artpiggo

Bosk said:


> Would anyone happen to know if the use of nylon sleeving tends to improve or degrade the sonic performance of IEM cables? I've noticed few popular IEM cables seem to be sleeved yet it is very popular with headphone cables.



Probably you mean PTFE which claims to be a good insulator that provide best sq.

Anyway, we just see the outcome no matter sleeve, conductor, plugs, solder used.


----------



## koven

kubig123 said:


> New baby in the house, PWaudio Saladin, love how it widens the soundstage and extend nicely the treble, perhaps the best cable (yet?) for the Fibae3.



Looks awesome, how's the ergonomics of 8wire? Is it heavy/stiff?


----------



## kubig123

koven said:


> Looks awesome, how's the ergonomics of 8wire? Is it heavy/stiff?


Excellent, the cable is extremely flexible, of course it's heavier than an usual 4 wire, but not enough to be uncomfortable.


----------



## weishayuelfjj (May 4, 2018)

Incredible OCC cables!! Love both 50s and 60s!!


----------



## pithyginger63

has anyone tried plussound's gold plated hybrid?


----------



## PinkyPowers

pithyginger63 said:


> has anyone tried plussound's gold plated hybrid?



I've reviewed both the Tri-Metal and Tri-Copper, and highly recommend them. And their Gold-Plated Copper, which is a personal favorite.


----------



## PinkyPowers

I consider the GPC one of the best all-around cables you can buy, as it's remarkably uncolored, natural-sounding, and transparent.

However, I must admit, I've been rocking the Tri-Copper a lot lately. It beefs up the Legend X to a goddamn badass!


----------



## ctsooner22

PinkyPowers said:


> I consider the GPC one of the best all-around cables you can buy, as it's remarkably uncolored, natural-sounding, and transparent.
> 
> However, I must admit, I've been rocking the Tri-Copper a lot lately. It beefs up the Legend X to a goddamn badass!



Pinky, thanks for that. How would it pair with the Phantoms?


----------



## Deezel177

ctsooner22 said:


> Pinky, thanks for that. How would it pair with the Phantoms?



Pinky hasn't heard the Phantoms yet, unfortunately. But, Music Sanctuary should have those demos by the time I visit them next month. Stay tuned...


----------



## PinkyPowers

Deezel177 said:


> Pinky hasn't heard the Phantoms yet, unfortunately. But, Music Sanctuary should have those demos by the time I visit them next month. Stay tuned...



Yeah, unfortunate indeed. Someday, I do hope that will change. But right now, there's no doubt I have plenty on my plate.


----------



## honeyjjack

Does anyone have pairing recommendations for a18t? I have a brimar grand master for my laylas and have heard no better cables for them, but i have heard some say gold plated cables might not be the best for a a18t.


----------



## koluludome

honeyjjack said:


> Does anyone have pairing recommendations for a18t? I have a brimar grand master for my laylas and have heard no better cables for them, but i have heard some say gold plated cables might not be the best for a a18t.



That cable gave a good detail but sub bass was a bit loose while upper mid is a bit bright. It suite Layla II but for A18T which is neutral-bright IEMs, a bit more balanced cable combine with warm tone may suite it nice.

I love Wagnus Sievesheep.

1960s 2 wire is good one too.

Venom tamed it also have most liquid gold euphoric vocal I've ever heard


----------



## alphanumerix1 (May 6, 2018)

any idea's on what cable would pair nicely with the t8iemkii?

Xelento sounds similar so a cable someone has used for that as well with success will work.


----------



## honeyjjack

koluludome said:


> That cable gave a good detail but sub bass was a bit loose while upper mid is a bit bright. It suite Layla II but for A18T which is neutral-bright IEMs, a bit more balanced cable combine with warm tone may suite it nice.
> 
> I love Wagnus Sievesheep.
> 
> ...


Hmm thank you for your advice. Would the venom be significantly better than other hsa cables? Im not sure if i will like the woven shielding. It seems much thicker than 1960s too. Maybe ill ask HSA if they can make one without the fabric shielding. Do you have any experience comparing these to toxic cable's Gold Widow?


----------



## koluludome

honeyjjack said:


> Hmm thank you for your advice. Would the venom be significantly better than other hsa cables? Im not sure if i will like the woven shielding. It seems much thicker than 1960s too. Maybe ill ask HSA if they can make one without the fabric shielding. Do you have any experience comparing these to toxic cable's Gold Widow?



Significantly better but with specific sound signature. Venom aren't thicker than 1960s 4 wires (which too much upper mid to my ears when paired with U18Tzar). Venom tamed upper frequency to make U18Tzar sound more balance. Instrument sound more individual.

Haven't tried Toxic gold yet.


----------



## honeyjjack

I havent seen any reviews on the toxic cables new flagships(medusa and gold widow) Has anyone seen reviews of them?


----------



## baiyy1986

got this plussound ehco+ (8 wire) using as my desktop balanced cable.
Love it.


----------



## Wyville

baiyy1986 said:


> got this plussound ehco+ (8 wire) using as my desktop balanced cable.
> Love it.


That is such a nice and rugged cable. I love how PlusSound has all these different sleeving options and that you can get a really durable cable built that still looks very pretty. The Poetic series for instance also looks really good and has a ton of colour options for unique designs or just straight up stealth black for a timeless classic look. Oh, so much temptation!


----------



## rtjoa

honeyjjack said:


> Does anyone have pairing recommendations for a18t? I have a brimar grand master for my laylas and have heard no better cables for them, but i have heard some say gold plated cables might not be the best for a a18t.


How about Brimar Kaiser hybrid cable? Here is a review for Kaiser with A18T in Russian (http://audio-ph.ru/reviews/obzor-kabelya-brimar-kaiser-vosmizhilnyi-provodnik-v-ligu-hi-end).

Brimar Omni King is another great cable for Layla.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Not an IEM cable, you say? Sue me. 

 

My new Sennheiser HD800 cable.

Double Helix Cables Molecule Elite 19 Fusion. 

Enhances every one of HD800's inherent virtues. Clearer. Cleaner. Better contrast, due to a blacker background. Bass is ever so slightly boosted, thanks to the crazy-thick 18.8AWG wire.

It's spectacular.


----------



## EagleWings

Pinky, does it help smooth the treble out a bit?


----------



## baiyy1986

Wyville said:


> That is such a nice and rugged cable. I love how PlusSound has all these different sleeving options and that you can get a really durable cable built that still looks very pretty. The Poetic series for instance also looks really good and has a ton of colour options for unique designs or just straight up stealth black for a timeless classic look. Oh, so much temptation!


yes, it is very durable, but the whole cable is very very soft, which I really like!
It obviously gives Roxanne sub-bass tighter and deeper, also bring some clarity.
I don't use this cable a lot, cause I use my iems in my office, but if I want to use these small pieces of jewelry with the destop setup it always a lot of pleasure.


----------



## honeyjjack

I may try mixing different cables using effect audio bespoke or custom order from plussound for my A18t. 
Maybe plussound X8 in half t-metal and half copper based wire to add more warmth. (not sure if tri copper, gpc, or gp hybrid) Ive heard T-metal is a good match but a little bit bright.
Effect audio im thinking a mix between horus or leonidas with lionheart, bacchus, or mars. (not sure if bespoke will let me use dealer specific cables)
Ill keep you guys updated with what i end up getting. Please let me know if you have any idea of what combination would work.


----------



## PinkyPowers

EagleWings said:


> Pinky, does it help smooth the treble out a bit?



No. It does produce the clearest treble yet, but it's not quelling anything. You have to already love the HD800 for this cable to be a good upgrade.


----------



## EagleWings

Gotcha, thanks.


----------



## shadow1121

Has anyone here managed to try out Nocturnal Audio's Sirius and Asteria TriMetal? Curious on how these two cables plays out with an EE Phantom.


----------



## pithyginger63

shadow1121 said:


> Nocturnal Audio's Sirius and Asteria TriMetal


i'm also interested in these, they seem very good price for the type of material they are


----------



## shadow1121

pithyginger63 said:


> i'm also interested in these, they seem very good price for the type of material they are



Yup seems like really good deal for the money that's why I wanted to see what people think bout it. Tried searching around though and couldnt find that much of a review or feedback about those cables.


----------



## ezekiel77

Norne Silvergarde S. I'm dumbfounded really. It looks stunning from every angle. Truly a sight to behold.

How does it sound? I have no idea!


----------



## strojo

baiyy1986 said:


> got this plussound ehco+ (8 wire) using as my desktop balanced cable.
> Love it.



How’s the cable weight when wearing this combo behind the ear?


----------



## baiyy1986

strojo said:


> How’s the cable weight when wearing this combo behind the ear?


yes, it has some weight, but not that much, after 10 mins probably will forget it.


----------



## y0da_cod3r (May 10, 2018)

Advice: Newbie question is coming.
I have three IEMs that I love and want to upgrade a cable to have the most of the upper tier IEM that is the Rhapsodio Galaxy v1 with Brass housing (Yes, one demo that Sammy did and I trade with a head-fier).
The other two are P1 and CA Orion that is not the main reason for this cable, once I'm using an MEE balanced with then and It's ok for now.

Should I go with a Copper or Silver cable? This is my central question because the Galaxy has a good Bass and Detail/Soundstage and I want to improve these qualities without losing my lovely mid/high notes.

Edit: I usually listen to Acoustic (Ben Harper, Dave Matthews) 50%, Rock (Metallica, Disturbed, Stone Sour, Slipknot, The Doors, Deep, Led) 30%, Classical 20%.

Budget 150-250

Please, forgive my newbie mistakes and thanks.


----------



## honeyjjack

y0da_cod3r said:


> Advice: Newbie question is coming.
> I have three IEMs that I love and want to upgrade a cable to have the most of the upper tier IEM that is the Rhapsodio Galaxy v1 with Brass housing (Yes, one demo that Sammy did and I trade with a head-fier).
> The other two are P1 and CA Orion that is not the main reason for this cable, once I'm using an MEE balanced with then and It's ok for now.
> 
> ...


There are no good silver cables in your price range. Go for a copper cable from a well known brand(effect audio, plussound)


----------



## ezekiel77

y0da_cod3r said:


> Advice: Newbie question is coming.
> I have three IEMs that I love and want to upgrade a cable to have the most of the upper tier IEM that is the Rhapsodio Galaxy v1 with Brass housing (Yes, one demo that Sammy did and I trade with a head-fier).
> The other two are P1 and CA Orion that is not the main reason for this cable, once I'm using an MEE balanced with then and It's ok for now.
> 
> ...


You can try asking Sammy himself. He is known to give discounts for repeat customers, and he'll know which of his cables pair well with Galaxy. From his range the old SG2.98 fits your description, but I don't know the latest price.


----------



## y0da_cod3r

I did it! He told me silver. I will try to find a good one


----------



## ctsooner22

Eric from Effect (go to that thread) will also give good advice. There are some very good cables. To ME, you asked the wrong question. It's not about the raw product, it's only about the end result.  Copper can sound terrible as can silver.  If silver is done correctly, it will be warmer than copper and much more detailed.  it will also give you the best bass that your transducer is ever going to give you.  Remember that the inherent sound of your IEM's is still the sound of them.  It's a slippery slope IMHO.  

I'd ask again, what cable is BEST with these IEM"s so that I may get the sound out of them that the designer says they are supposed to have.  I know that goes against the grain on the headgear boards, but hey, I'm a 2 channel guy visiting, so what do I know .


----------



## y0da_cod3r

Thank you! I knew that I was doing it all wrong!


----------



## ctsooner22

Not wrong, I bet half this board or more will disagree with me based on what they read constantly about materials.  many will disagree, because they have owned silver that may not have been done the way it should be or copper that.... you get teh point.  To me, it's always about auditioning and seeing what sounds best together.  There is also synergy in components so just because one cable sounds a certain way on one IEM, it may not do quiet as good on another.  It will have an inherent sound of course, but it may not be a great fit on another IEM as it may accentuate something that isn't good, but you won't know until you actually hear them together and with teh same source/dac/amp.  Is that impedance?  I forget as I'm not an engineer, but this is why when I review in the 2 channel world, the ONLY thing I ever change is the component I'm reviewing.  Again, that's me.


----------



## proedros

honeyjjack said:


> There are no good silver cables in your price range. Go for a copper cable from a well known brand(effect audio, plussound)





y0da_cod3r said:


> I did it! He told me silver. I will try to find a good one



well , it happens that i am selling a totl silver cable (originally priced at 530$) for almost half price , mint/like 5 hours of use 

see my sig/pm me


----------



## CalvinW

Are there an reviews on the PWAudio Saladin yet?


----------



## Deezel177

CalvinW said:


> Are there an reviews on the PWAudio Saladin yet?



I posted impressions from CanJam several pages back. I don’t know if anyone else has posted about them, though.


----------



## CalvinW

Deezel177 said:


> I posted impressions from CanJam several pages back. I don’t know if anyone else has posted about them, though.


 Thanks, I read your post already. Great info! Looking for more input before I pull the trigger


----------



## natemact

I'd like to share my thoughts on the *Penon OS849*. I only have a SE Ares II currently (waiting on 4.4 like everyone else) for reference. I had to use a Ibasso CA01 adapter on the OS849 to compare against the Ares II on Amp 5, so this comparison wasn't controlled. Can't tell you how the CA01 affected my findings. Once my 4.4 Ares II arrives and I've put 100 hours on it I'll revisit this with Amp4s, but for now here's my thoughts.

I'll preface this by saying I'm partial to silver cables and only use copper when silver fails (ie: add bass and warmth) such as a Cardas Clear on my HD800 and Cardas Clear Reflection interconnect between phonostage/headamp for HD800

*Bass* - Ares II has a more pronounced sub-bass and mid-bass, being rounder as well as more punchy while OS849 is more neutral, tighter, resolved and textured. I find the Ares II bass overcooked in my setup, sounding a little boomy to me

*Mids* - Lower mids are thicker on Ares II, subtley masking detail and giving a chestiness to vocals compared to OS849. Upper mids are slightly more recessed on Ares II where on OS849 they are right inline with lower mids and lower treble. OS849 easily more resolved.

*Treble* - Now keep in mind this is with Phantoms. Lower treble sounds recessed compared OS849. On an iem with more pronounced treble OS849 may sound slightly bright? Purely speculation though. With this lower treble lift OS849 offers increased articulation. Upper treble is similar for both but going above that OS849 has the better sense of air.

*Soundstage* (size only) - OS849 is more circular while Ares II is shallower. I found that hard panned instruments had more freedom in the stage on OS849 while Ares II kept them more locked down in your ear. OS849 manages to push everything a little more forward as well with it's extra depth dose. Less between your ears and more between your temples. 

*Imaging/Layering/Separation *- OS849 presented a more cohesive image with it being very easy to wrap your head around so to speak. OS849 also presented a sharper image, being better etched out of space. Thicker sound of Ares II is the culprit I'm thinking? Ares II was unsure of itself comparatively, being less precise in it's placement as well as rarely filling up it's soundstage width proportionality (think almost "holes" in it). It was almost like an exaggerated sense of separation and layering but I'd chalk it up to being less precise. All this added up to the Ares II being a difficult cable for me just sit back, relax and enjoy the performance on a whole with. While I know some will enjoy this "sporadic" type of imagery and layering the Ares II provides, I find it's more the kind of thing that impresses non-audiophiles and the super high lol. (EDIT - just had another listen, it's not that bad but I'm sticking to my claims) Compared to OS849 I found this "hit and miss" imagery to be distracting from the performance and greatly preferred the united OS849, as a live performance would sound.

*Transparency/Openess* - OS849 sounds a great deal more open and transparent! It's definitely one of those "open a window" type of metaphors you've read before. At first I thought there must be a reason for this ie: Ares II wasn't used for a week, tips, connection, I was looking for anything to explain such a drastic difference but there was nothing to it, the OS849 is a clear window outside where the Ares II (no exaggeration) has the bug screen to deal with. Maybe it's playing it safe? Bugs suck right? Either way the Ares II sounded congested and I wouldn't say only in comparison to OS849. I find it's too thick, slightly muddy and slow in bass and mids (remember I'm not a copper guy so ymmv) but due to it's elevated treble for a copper cable, it's probably one of the better buys considering cost/performance.

The take away from this should be that the first thing you notice when switching between the two is that the OS849 sounds clearer, much more open and transparent and with a higher degree of resolution - but not largely so. Maybe this is closer to what the Eros II sounds like? Only reason I could see purchasing Ares II over OS849 is if you want 4.4mm (could always diy or have someone re-terminate though), to pair with an overly thin sounding iem/dac/amp combo or if you're a bass first, at all costs kinda fellow.

Let's also keep in mind this cable costs only $130USD. I'd have to go back nearly 10 years to find a cable even under $500 in my system. Sooo not bragging, just attempting to make the point here that I didn't expect much from the Penon OS849, but I'd be lying if @twister6 didn't have me curious. Clearly I'm impressed but it's their asking price that has me laughing. Who's the next company to follow suit


----------



## audio123

@natemact Glad to see you enjoying the OS849 cable.

Here is my review on the GS849! Enjoy reading! 
Head-Fi: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-gs849.23111/reviews#review-20334
Website: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/penon-gs849/


----------



## koven (May 21, 2018)

Interesting impressions on the OS849... w/ Andro I personally felt it's much worse than both the stock Litz and my Ref 8, sounds kind of congested and recessed across the board, maybe it just doesn't work well in my setup. Plus the cable smells weird.
FYI I'm selling it for $80 shipped if anyone is interested.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-penon-os849-mmcx-3-5mm.875384/

I've been having trouble finding an upgrade to Ref 8 that sounds as open/resolving. Ref 8 sound is perfect except the microphonics is annoying.


----------



## natemact

Haha mine's stench free, but that would suck : )


----------



## Decreate

Was wondering if there were any reviews of the Han Sound Venom yet and whether it would pair well with the Phantom.


----------



## Deezel177

Decreate said:


> Was wondering if there were any reviews of the Han Sound Venom yet and whether it would pair well with the Phantom.



I tried the Venom once several months ago and it was very impressive. Separation and layering was simply the best I've ever heard out of any cable and it did so without messing with tonal balance. It has a neutral tone with a slightly dark tilt due to a linear upper-treble, but the notes it produces are absolutely precise and clean, so this darkness does not translate to congestion or bloom. It has a natural yet snappy quality to it and it paired *wonderfully* with the Zeus-XR. I tried a new revised version just before CanJam SG and I was honestly less impressed. It sounded more fun and somewhat V-shaped, and it compromised some of its class-leading separation as a result. At that point, I was *far* too impressed by the PWAudio 1950s to give it a further listen, but I probably wouldn't pair it with the Phantom. Ergonomics are also an absolute pain if you plan to use it outdoors. It's definitely a _for home use_ kind of cable.


----------



## Decreate

Deezel177 said:


> I tried the Venom once several months ago and it was very impressive. Separation and layering was simply the best I've ever heard out of any cable and it did so without messing with tonal balance. It has a neutral tone with a slightly dark tilt due to a linear upper-treble, but the notes it produces are absolutely precise and clean, so this darkness does not translate to congestion or bloom. It has a natural yet snappy quality to it and it paired *wonderfully* with the Zeus-XR. I tried a new revised version just before CanJam SG and I was honestly less impressed. It sounded more fun and somewhat V-shaped, and it compromised some of its class-leading separation as a result. At that point, I was *far* too impressed by the PWAudio 1950s to give it a further listen, but I probably wouldn't pair it with the Phantom. Ergonomics are also an absolute pain if you plan to use it outdoors. It's definitely a _for home use_ kind of cable.


Thanks, I guess its either the Leonidas or the Janus (once I get to try them again) for the Phantom...by the way have you tried the Mars 4+Leonidas 4?


----------



## Deezel177

Decreate said:


> Thanks, I guess its either the Leonidas or the Janus (once I get to try them again) for the Phantom...by the way have you tried the Mars 4+Leonidas 4?



No, but that *will* change not too long from now.


----------



## pithyginger63

what are the recommended effect audio hybrids? what do they sound like?


----------



## natemact

Decreate said:


> Thanks, I guess its either the Leonidas or the Janus (once I get to try them again) for the Phantom...by the way have you tried the Mars 4+Leonidas 4?


I was thinking Leonidas for my Phantom too but the Norne Silvergarde has really got my attention. @SeeSax preferred it to his Leo on his LX and @ezekiel77 mentioned to me he's really enjoying his. Worth a consideration maybe?


----------



## Deezel177

natemact said:


> I was thinking Leonidas for my Phantom too but the Norne Silvergarde has really got my attention. @SeeSax preferred it to his Leo on his LX and @ezekiel77 mentioned to me he's really enjoying his. Worth a consideration maybe?



The Silvergarde is also something I'm extremely curious about. The ergonomics may leave something to be desired, but it looks like one heck of a silver cable.


----------



## Decreate

natemact said:


> I was thinking Leonidas for my Phantom too but the Norne Silvergarde has really got my attention. @SeeSax preferred it to his Leo on his LX and @ezekiel77 mentioned to me he's really enjoying his. Worth a consideration maybe?


Would love to if only there was somewhere here in HK that I could go to try them... I'm rather hesitant on blind purchases since getting the Tia Forte and finding out they weren't my cup of tea...


----------



## natemact (May 22, 2018)

Decreate said:


> Would love to if only there was somewhere here in HK that I could go to try them... I'm rather hesitant on blind purchases since getting the Tia Forte and finding out they weren't my cup of tea...


Trevor has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. It's a big reason why I'll end up giving the Silvergarde a shot before others. Still enjoying my cheap and cheerful Penon OS849 for now tho!


----------



## Decreate

Just now I went down to a shop that bought and sold used items to sell off 2sets of iems that I wasn't using. As luck would have it, the guy had a used Leonidas terminated with a 4.4mm plug for sale. Guess what I did with the money I got from selling my iems.


----------



## San Man

Always a good day when you can get an expensive cable used and in good /mint condition!


----------



## SeeSax

natemact said:


> I was thinking Leonidas for my Phantom too but the Norne Silvergarde has really got my attention. @SeeSax preferred it to his Leo on his LX and @ezekiel77 mentioned to me he's really enjoying his. Worth a consideration maybe?



Looks like you're going to pull the trigger on it? I hope you like it! 



Deezel177 said:


> The Silvergarde is also something I'm extremely curious about. The ergonomics may leave something to be desired, but it looks like one heck of a silver cable.



It is, indeed. I had to send it back to Trevor to have it "re-shaped" a bit and still didn't like it, so then I sent it to David at Triton Audio and he applied some heatshrink to the bends so that they're much better. I guess I probably fall into the "super picky" category or worse for ergonomics, but from a SQ-perspective I think this beastly cable is going to be hard to beat especially around the price point it is offered. 

-Collin-


----------



## koven

natemact said:


> Trevor has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. It's a big reason why I'll end up giving the Silvergarde a shot before others. Still enjoying my cheap and cheerful Penon OS849 for now tho!



In addition to the 30 day full refund, Norne also has better email response time + turnaround than all the other popular cable makers. 
I have two of his cables already, and I'd have the Silvergarde if it wasn't for ergonomic issues. However he did mention he's working on a more supple upgraded version of the Silvergarde to be released later this year.


----------



## natemact

koven said:


> ...more supple upgraded version of the Silvergarde to be released later this year.


Thanks for the tip. I'll hold off and see how he gets on.


----------



## Tanjiro

natemact said:


> Trevor has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. It's a big reason why I'll end up giving the Silvergarde a shot before others. Still enjoying my cheap and cheerful Penon OS849 for now tho!



Good luck bro.  Trevor's after sales service sucks!  I would never ever purchase anything from him again.


----------



## natemact

moneypls said:


> Good luck bro.  Trevor's after sales service sucks!  I would never ever purchase anything from him again.


His potential customer service has been great through a half a dozen back and forths so far. That's too bad too hear you had a negative experience with him.


----------



## spw1880

PinkyPowers said:


> Not an IEM cable, you say? Sue me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats a beauty..
BTW may i ask what the wait time is now for double helix. I am aware it fluctuates due to varying levels of back log. 

Thanks


----------



## meomap

spw1880 said:


> Thats a beauty..
> BTW may i ask what the wait time is now for double helix. I am aware it fluctuates due to varying levels of back log.
> 
> Thanks



I am still waiting for my 3.5mm to 3.5 mm mini since August.
Really !!! for a Mini????
Emailed couple times but no reply.
This will be my 4th cables with DHC.


----------



## Barra

Decreate said:


> Was wondering if there were any reviews of the Han Sound Venom yet and whether it would pair well with the Phantom.


I am about to kick off a Han Sound US cable tour and have been playing with their cable lineup this week and can not get enough of the Venum. I have been like a kid in the candy store with the almost complete Han Sound lineup with a jewelry-like build quality across the lineup, but I keep coming back to the Venum. I don't have the Phantom and have not heard it yet to comment on that, but it is an optimal configuration with the Fourte'. Paired with the Fourte' it brings out the big boy sound characteristics of a full sized headphone that the Fourte' is capable of, but also adds a bit to the mids to give it another boost in performance making it even more balanced in the signature. Ergonomics, well...... it is stout and will hold up to rough play, but is not a subtle forget about it type cable like its siblings. However, I am not sure that I would spend this on a cable and take it to the gym. It also has two plugs for pairing convenience that would be a nuisance if you were to take it for a jog, just sayin'. On the other hand, out and about I do seem to be getting a lot of attention from this cable. You should see the eyes on people when I let them hear what the *Venum > Fourte' *pairing can make an iPhone 6 sound like!

BTW, when I post the signup thread for my US Han Sound Audio tour this week, I will add a link to this thread for those that are interested.


----------



## koven

Barra said:


> I am about to kick off a Han Sound US cable tour and have been playing with their cable lineup this week and can not get enough of the Venum. I have been like a kid in the candy store with the almost complete Han Sound lineup with a jewelry-like build quality across the lineup, but I keep coming back to the Venum. I don't have the Phantom and have not heard it yet to comment on that, but it is an optimal configuration with the Fourte'. Paired with the Fourte' it brings out the big boy sound characteristics of a full sized headphone that the Fourte' is capable of, but also adds a bit to the mids to give it another boost in performance making it even more balanced in the signature. Ergonomics, well...... it is stout and will hold up to rough play, but is not a subtle forget about it type cable like its siblings. However, I am not sure that I would spend this on a cable and take it to the gym. It also has two plugs for pairing convenience that would be a nuisance if you were to take it for a jog, just sayin'. On the other hand, out and about I do seem to be getting a lot of attention from this cable. You should see the eyes on people when I let them hear what the *Venum > Fourte' *pairing can make an iPhone 6 sound like!
> 
> BTW, when I post the signup thread for my US Han Sound Audio tour this week, I will add a link to this thread for those that are interested.



Han Sound tour? Sweet!


----------



## San Man

Barra said:


> I am about to kick off a Han Sound US cable tour and have been playing with their cable lineup this week and can not get enough of the Venum. I have been like a kid in the candy store with the almost complete Han Sound lineup with a jewelry-like build quality across the lineup, but I keep coming back to the Venum. I don't have the Phantom and have not heard it yet to comment on that, but it is an optimal configuration with the Fourte'. Paired with the Fourte' it brings out the big boy sound characteristics of a full sized headphone that the Fourte' is capable of, but also adds a bit to the mids to give it another boost in performance making it even more balanced in the signature. Ergonomics, well...... it is stout and will hold up to rough play, but is not a subtle forget about it type cable like its siblings. However, I am not sure that I would spend this on a cable and take it to the gym. It also has two plugs for pairing convenience that would be a nuisance if you were to take it for a jog, just sayin'. On the other hand, out and about I do seem to be getting a lot of attention from this cable. You should see the eyes on people when I let them hear what the *Venum > Fourte' *pairing can make an iPhone 6 sound like!
> 
> BTW, when I post the signup thread for my US Han Sound Audio tour this week, I will add a link to this thread for those that are interested.



I'm in B!


----------



## kubig123

Barra said:


> I am about to kick off a Han Sound US cable tour and have been playing with their cable lineup this week and can not get enough of the Venum. I have been like a kid in the candy store with the almost complete Han Sound lineup with a jewelry-like build quality across the lineup, but I keep coming back to the Venum. I don't have the Phantom and have not heard it yet to comment on that, but it is an optimal configuration with the Fourte'. Paired with the Fourte' it brings out the big boy sound characteristics of a full sized headphone that the Fourte' is capable of, but also adds a bit to the mids to give it another boost in performance making it even more balanced in the signature. Ergonomics, well...... it is stout and will hold up to rough play, but is not a subtle forget about it type cable like its siblings. However, I am not sure that I would spend this on a cable and take it to the gym. It also has two plugs for pairing convenience that would be a nuisance if you were to take it for a jog, just sayin'. On the other hand, out and about I do seem to be getting a lot of attention from this cable. You should see the eyes on people when I let them hear what the *Venum > Fourte' *pairing can make an iPhone 6 sound like!
> 
> BTW, when I post the signup thread for my US Han Sound Audio tour this week, I will add a link to this thread for those that are interested.



Great news,
which cables will be part of the tour?


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> I tried the Venom once several months ago and it was very impressive. Separation and layering was simply the best I've ever heard out of any cable and it did so without messing with tonal balance. It has a neutral tone with a slightly dark tilt due to a linear upper-treble, but the notes it produces are absolutely precise and clean, so this darkness does not translate to congestion or bloom. *It has a natural yet snappy quality to it and it paired wonderfully with the Zeus-XR.* I tried a new revised version just before CanJam SG and I was honestly less impressed. It sounded more fun and somewhat V-shaped, and it compromised some of its class-leading separation as a result. At that point, I was *far* too impressed by the PWAudio 1950s to give it a further listen, but I probably wouldn't pair it with the Phantom. Ergonomics are also an absolute pain if you plan to use it outdoors. It's definitely a _for home use_ kind of cable.



another great/inforative post 

seeing that it was your opinion/review that made me go for the EAxMS Eos , would Venom be an even better cable ? also price ?


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> another great/inforative post
> 
> seeing that it was your opinion/review that made me go for the EAxMS Eos , would Venom be an even better cable ? also price ?



The Venom is definitely a better performer than Eos, but it's very highly priced. It's 1999 SGD, which makes it approximately two-thirds the price of the 4-wire 1960s and the Horus. The Venom separates better than both flagships IMO, but all three are different in tone. The Venom just happens to pair best with the Zeus for my preferences. Remember that ergonomics are an utter nightmare with the Venom, so it's pretty much for home use only as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> The Venom is definitely a better performer than Eos, but it's very highly priced. It's *1999 SGD, which makes it approximately two-thirds the price of the 4-wire 1960s and the Horus.* The Venom separates better than both flagships IMO, but all three are different in tone. The Venom just happens to pair best with the Zeus for my preferences. Remember that ergonomics are an utter nightmare with the Venom, so it's pretty much for home use only as far as I'm concerned.



definitely way way WAY out of my budget , thanx for the fast reply you rock


----------



## Barra

New Tour Announcement - Han Sound Audio Premium IEM Cable Tour
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/han...-tour-starting-may-2018.880384/#post-14258367

Music Sanctuary has set us up with some very premium Han Sound Audio IEM cables. I have been playing with them and have felt like a kid in a candy store. If you are interested you may join at the link above.


----------



## Barra

Anyone have any luck contacting Brimar? I ordered an in stock Brimar 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter over two months ago and got a confirmation but have heard nothing since. A month in, I emailed using a supplied email on their confirmation and again, nothing. Two weeks later I tried emailing again and still nothing. Now I have been waiting for two months and have no reason to suspect that I am going to receive anything. Does anyone have any insight or should I dispute the change with the credit card company?  I really wanted that darn 90-degree adapter.


----------



## San Man

Try and get a hold of Rudi  on facebook.  He seems to have the "ins" with them


----------



## alphanumerix1

KING RUDI


----------



## twister6

Barra said:


> Anyone have any luck contacting Brimar? I ordered an in stock Brimar 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter over two months ago and got a confirmation but have heard nothing since. A month in, I emailed using a supplied email on their confirmation and again, nothing. Two weeks later I tried emailing again and still nothing. Now I have been waiting for two months and have no reason to suspect that I am going to receive anything. Does anyone have any insight or should I dispute the change with the credit card company?  I really wanted that darn 90-degree adapter.



Musicteck has the same adapter made by Effect Audio here.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Barra said:


> Anyone have any luck contacting Brimar? I ordered an in stock Brimar 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter over two months ago and got a confirmation but have heard nothing since. A month in, I emailed using a supplied email on their confirmation and again, nothing. Two weeks later I tried emailing again and still nothing. Now I have been waiting for two months and have no reason to suspect that I am going to receive anything. Does anyone have any insight or should I dispute the change with the credit card company?  I really wanted that darn 90-degree adapter.



I purchased the same exact thing a year ago and had the same issue. It ended up with me opening a PayPal claim to get my money back. They never responded once during the whole thing. 

Buy the adapter from Effect Audio that Twister6 mentioned. That's what I got.


----------



## ctsooner22

Eric at EA will set you up.  Just a great guy.  I don't know of others, but someone else may.  I always try to stick with a company that has great customer service adn folks on the boards talk about how good it is.  We are the truth! lol...sorry about the Brimar deal. That does stink.


----------



## azabu

Barra said:


> Anyone have any luck contacting Brimar? I ordered an in stock Brimar 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter over two months ago and got a confirmation but have heard nothing since. A month in, I emailed using a supplied email on their confirmation and again, nothing. Two weeks later I tried emailing again and still nothing. Now I have been waiting for two months and have no reason to suspect that I am going to receive anything. Does anyone have any insight or should I dispute the change with the credit card company?  I really wanted that darn 90-degree adapter.



Visited their store in HK in February.

I wouldn't buy anything from them


----------



## rtjoa

Deezel177 said:


> The Venom is definitely a better performer than Eos, but it's very highly priced. It's 1999 SGD, which makes it approximately two-thirds the price of the 4-wire 1960s and the Horus. The Venom separates better than both flagships IMO, but all three are different in tone. The Venom just happens to pair best with the Zeus for my preferences. Remember that ergonomics are an utter nightmare with the Venom, so it's pretty much for home use only as far as I'm concerned.


Thank you. I forget to test Venom at Can Jam.
Did you test Brimar Ultimate at Can Jam? I would like to hear your opinion.


----------



## Deezel177

rtjoa said:


> Thank you. I forget to test Venom at Can Jam.
> Did you test Brimar Ultimate at Can Jam? I would like to hear your opinion.



I did not. Despite their popularity in my city, I'm not too keen on their pricing policies.  I might give them a go some time, though.


----------



## rtjoa

Barra said:


> Anyone have any luck contacting Brimar? I ordered an in stock Brimar 2.5mm to 3.5mm converter over two months ago and got a confirmation but have heard nothing since. A month in, I emailed using a supplied email on their confirmation and again, nothing. Two weeks later I tried emailing again and still nothing. Now I have been waiting for two months and have no reason to suspect that I am going to receive anything. Does anyone have any insight or should I dispute the change with the credit card company?  I really wanted that darn 90-degree adapter.


Hi Barra, Sorry to hear about your problem. Can you please PM me your name or order #? I will ask King Rudi to contact Brimar.
I have met Brimar owner at Can Jam and he is a very nice person.


----------



## rtjoa

Deezel177 said:


> I did not. Despite their popularity in my city, I'm not too keen on their pricing policies.  I might give them a go some time, though.


Thanks Daniel. I have tested many cables at Can Jam and Brimar Ultimate suprised me the most. I would like to hear it once again.

I may be in Jakarta around July. I can bring my cables if you would like to test it. Jaben may still have Brimar Omni King. It has been sold with Tia Fourte but the guy has not picked it up yet.


----------



## phiemon

Can someone tell me how the ALO cable Reference 8 is – compared to the Litz cable? Is there any noticeable differences? I'm thinking about to change for it with my Andromeda. An answer would help me very much.


----------



## Deezel177

rtjoa said:


> Thanks Daniel. I have tested many cables at Can Jam and Brimar Ultimate suprised me the most. I would like to hear it once again.
> 
> I may be in Jakarta around July. I can bring my cables if you would like to test it. Jaben may still have Brimar Omni King. It has been sold with Tia Fourte but the guy has not picked it up yet.



Awesome! Let me know if/when you get here. I'd be happy to hear some new gear. 



phiemon said:


> Can someone tell me how the ALO cable Reference 8 is – compared to the Litz cable? Is there any noticeable differences? I'm thinking about to change for it with my Andromeda. An answer would help me very much.



@PinkyPowers should be able to help you with that.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Deezel177 said:


> Awesome! Let me know if/when you get here. I'd be happy to hear some new gear.
> 
> 
> 
> @PinkyPowers should be able to help you with that.



I should... but can't. 

If the Litz is the same cable which came with my Jupiter and Dorado, then at least I know how it sounds, more or less. But my Ref8 is 2-pin, not MMCX, so I was never able to do a direct comparison.

I very much suspect the Ref8 will improve airiness and clarity, because that is what it does with every IEM I've tried. But how much of an improvement over their basic Litz model, I'm not sure.


----------



## Barra

rtjoa said:


> Hi Barra, Sorry to hear about your problem. Can you please PM me your name or order #? I will ask King Rudi to contact Brimar.
> I have met Brimar owner at Can Jam and he is a very nice person.


Thank you @rtjoa - PM sent!


----------



## phiemon

PinkyPowers said:


> I should... but can't.
> 
> If the Litz is the same cable which came with my Jupiter and Dorado, then at least I know how it sounds, more or less. But my Ref8 is 2-pin, not MMCX, so I was never able to do a direct comparison.
> 
> I very much suspect the Ref8 will improve airiness and clarity, because that is what it does with every IEM I've tried. But how much of an improvement over their basic Litz model, I'm not sure.



Thank you for the reply.

But do you know a „better“ cable for the Andromeda at that price tag of the Ref 8 (about 300€)?


----------



## Barra

twister6 said:


> Musicteck has the same adapter made by Effect Audio here.


Thanks, that's a great backup plan. Wish it was $35 like at Brimar.


----------



## Barra

ctaxxxx said:


> I purchased the same exact thing a year ago and had the same issue. It ended up with me opening a PayPal claim to get my money back. They never responded once during the whole thing.
> 
> Buy the adapter from Effect Audio that Twister6 mentioned. That's what I got.


Ouch!


----------



## Barra

azabu said:


> Visited their store in HK in February.
> 
> I wouldn't buy anything from them


Ouch!


----------



## LCeh

azabu said:


> Visited their store in HK in February.
> 
> I wouldn't buy anything from them



I visited their shop in HK a few weeks ago too. What was the main issue with them when you visited? I read all these non-responding experience on the forum and it scares me a little, but the fact I can visit their physical store made me feel a bit better. But I want to know your experience with them also too before pulling the trigger. Thanks!


----------



## artpiggo

rtjoa said:


> Thanks Daniel. I have tested many cables at Can Jam and Brimar Ultimate suprised me the most. I would like to hear it once again.
> 
> I may be in Jakarta around July. I can bring my cables if you would like to test it. Jaben may still have Brimar Omni King. It has been sold with Tia Fourte but the guy has not picked it up yet.



What is spec for brimar ultimate?


----------



## Jearly410

phiemon said:


> Thank you for the reply.
> 
> But do you know a „better“ cable for the Andromeda at that price tag of the Ref 8 (about 300€)?


I’m also very interested in this. I’ve been looking for a replacement (using 2.5mm tinsel atm) and besides the ref8 I haven’t read of anything equal or better than the Litz.


----------



## koven

phiemon said:


> Can someone tell me how the ALO cable Reference 8 is – compared to the Litz cable? Is there any noticeable differences? I'm thinking about to change for it with my Andromeda. An answer would help me very much.



Big improvement to me w/ Andro. Made the sound a lot more airy and holographic, slightly better resolution as well. A bit microphonic and stiff though. But I'm living w/ it because it sounds a lot better.


----------



## phiemon (May 25, 2018)

koven said:


> Big improvement to me w/ Andro. Made the sound a lot more airy and holographic, slightly better resolution as well. A bit microphonic and stiff though. But I'm living w/ it because it sounds a lot better.



Thank you for this reply!

Just for info: I see that you use the V30 as mobile. I tested it too and compared to my iPhone (X) and the Samsung S9 (EU version). I found the V30 to be just a very, very bit better than the iPhone (unfortunately!). The S9 is for me a noticeable improvement over the iPhone and so over the V30. Did you made such an experience?


----------



## tim0chan

phiemon said:


> Thank you for this reply!
> 
> Just for info: I see that you use the V30 as mobile. I tested it too and compared to my iPhone (X) and the Samsung S9 (EU version). I found the V30 to be just a very, very bit better than the iPhone (unfortunately!). The S9 is for me a noticeable improvement over the iPhone and so over the V30. Did you made such an experience?


So the S9 is better than the v30?


----------



## phiemon

tim0chan said:


> So the S9 is better than the v30?



For me (with the Andromeda), definitely "yes".

I had practically no reason to change the iPhone with the LG V30 in regards to the audio quality over headphones. As I said, the difference was for me just very marginal, barely noticeable. This surprised me a lot.


----------



## koven

phiemon said:


> Thank you for this reply!
> 
> Just for info: I see that you use the V30 as mobile. I tested it too and compared to my iPhone (X) and the Samsung S9 (EU version). I found the V30 to be just a very, very bit better than the iPhone (unfortunately!). The S9 is for me a noticeable improvement over the iPhone and so over the V30. Did you made such an experience?



I have not used S9 or iPhone so not sure but I am very happy w/ V30 and Andro!


----------



## rtjoa

artpiggo said:


> What is spec for brimar ultimate?


Gold plated silver and gold plated copper.

Testing 10 wire Ultimate at Can Jam.


----------



## nick97

hey guys has anyone tested the HanSound redcore with the a18?


----------



## nick97

kubig123 said:


> New baby in the house, PWaudio Saladin, love how it widens the soundstage and extend nicely the treble, perhaps the best cable (yet?) for the Fibae3.


hey there where did you get that beauty? I can't find it on the website


----------



## kubig123

Hi nick,
You can order the cable from music-sanctuary.


----------



## natemact

Kozato said:


> The Saladin and Saladin+ are single crystal copper and *single crystal silver plated copper* litz cable.


OK that makes more sense as it's stated on your website that _silver plated OCC silver_ is used in the Vanquish series.


----------



## Barra

nick97 said:


> hey guys has anyone tested the HanSound redcore with the a18?


I am kicking off my Han Sound tour this next couple of weeks and have the whole lineup. The redcore has been hooked up to my a12t and is outstanding will review my A18 as well soon. It will appear on my tour thread.


----------



## nick97

kubig123 said:


> Hi nick,
> You can order the cable from music-sanctuary.


oh cool thank you, do you think you could post some pictures of yours? For some reason they don't have pictures on the website. Also do you like it? Is it a flexible cable?


----------



## kubig123

nick97 said:


> oh cool thank you, do you think you could post some pictures of yours? For some reason they don't have pictures on the website. Also do you like it? Is it a flexible cable?


I will,
It’s extrey flexible, better than the Eros 8 wire. It sounds great also with the EE Phantom.


----------



## nick97

kubig123 said:


> I will,
> It’s extrey flexible, better than the Eros 8 wire. It sounds great also with the EE Phantom.


awesome thank you! I'm looking to possibly get one for my a18


----------



## ctsooner22

kubig123 said:


> I will,
> It’s extrey flexible, better than the Eros 8 wire. It sounds great also with the EE Phantom.



This is why I'm not ready to purchase the Janus D for my Phantom's.  There are many great cables out there and even their stock EA cable is outstanding.  I'm lucky in that I'm getting some tour cables sent, so I'll have a much better idea of what I like and don't like pretty quickly.  Great thread and thanks Barra for your tours.


----------



## Rl-s

Hi any ideal cable pairings with 64audio u18t?


----------



## PinkyPowers

I've got my 8-wire Thor II connected to tia Fourté now. Wow. This cable is magic. It's become my favorite cable for both Legend X and Fourté. Considering how different those two are, it's rare one cable pairs this well with each.


----------



## junix

Rl-s said:


> Hi any ideal cable pairings with 64audio u18t?


A lot of ideal cable pairings.. 

What do you want to achieve with the cable? Budget?


----------



## pithyginger63

what's a laid back but still highly resolving cable?


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> what's a laid back but still highly resolving cable?



The PlusSound Tri-Metal would be my top recommendation, but I don't know whether or not the latest generation T-Metal shares that trait. The Effect Audio Thor Silver II is also a good option, with only some slight sparkle in the midrange.


----------



## honeyjjack

rtjoa said:


> Hi Barra, Sorry to hear about your problem. Can you please PM me your name or order #? I will ask King Rudi to contact Brimar.
> I have met Brimar owner at Can Jam and he is a very nice person.


Could i possibly get some help too? I sent back my grandmaster for my layla because they messed up my order and didnt attach a bass pod/ cable started sounding off. I got a response on their facebook and shipped the cable to them. No response since


----------



## pithyginger63

wait, i need to ask a question about brimar cables, is that usd or sgd? also, what is the crown conductor material?


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> wait, i need to ask a question about brimar cables, is that usd or sgd? also, what is the crown conductor material?


Usd, it's their own proprietary way of adding gold to the wire


----------



## pithyginger63

tim0chan said:


> Usd, it's their own proprietary way of adding gold to the wire


my god the prices....


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> my god the prices....


But their more affordable cables should sound good too


----------



## artpiggo

Yes you can start with brimar the prince.


----------



## rtjoa

honeyjjack said:


> Could i possibly get some help too? I sent back my grandmaster for my layla because they messed up my order and didnt attach a bass pod/ cable started sounding off. I got a response on their facebook and shipped the cable to them. No response since


I saw your Brimar for sale thread where you bought your GrandMaster in Jul 2017. Why the bass pod is an issue or started sounding off now? I see that you lost your Layla last year so you wanted to sale your cable. How many hours have you put on your cable? My Grandmaster does not have bass pod and I have seen Omni King without bass pod.
I am sorry to ask those questions. I just want to know what is going on before asking Rudi. 
I have met Rudi and Creevy (Brimar's Owner) once only on different audio shows.


----------



## rtjoa (May 29, 2018)

pithyginger63 said:


> my god the prices....





pithyginger63 said:


> wait, i need to ask a question about brimar cables, is that usd or sgd? also, what is the crown conductor material?


My cousin was asking the same question at Singapore Can Jam. Is that USD or SGD? 

If you see them at audio show, please visit them. The owner is a very nice person and you won't regret testing their cables. I just ignored the pricing when I tested their cables . We went for a coffee after the show. I wanted to buy him a coffee so he can give me more discounts. Instead, he bought me a coffee so I have to buy more cables 

The prices for high-end cables are shocking but they have some other cables. Please check their website https://www.brimar.net/iem-cables and Facebook page https://web.facebook.com/pg/brimar.net/posts/

Pictures of my Brimar cables which I bought from a head-fi member.


----------



## honeyjjack

rtjoa said:


> I saw your Brimar for sale thread where you bought your GrandMaster in Jul 2017. Why the bass pod is an issue or started sounding off now? I see that you lost your Layla last year so you wanted to sale your cable. How many hours have you put on your cable? My Grandmaster does not have bass pod and I have seen Omni King without bass pod.
> I am sorry to ask those questions. I just want to know what is going on before asking Rudi.
> I have met Rudi and Creevy (Brimar's Owner) once only on different audio shows.


When i got the cable i realized the store i ordered it from forgot to tell Brimar to add the bass pod. I had listed it for sale because i lost one side of my Layla. When it didn't sell, I took the cable to a friend who had a universal layla and realized It had way too much bass without the pod(The bass pod is a resistor that controls how much bass to reduce). But other than that the match up sounded so good i decided to buy another set of Laylas. When my new Layla came, i still had the cables on me(was still contemplating if i wanted to keep the cable as is even with elevated bass) so i spent some time listening to them. Within 10 min or so of listening the sound suddenly shifted. It sounded veiled and dark, with the vocals further off and muffled. It sounded almost like when you half plug in an aux cord of a speaker but not to that extent. I sent the cables to the dealer and since i had to send them back anyway, i wanted to add the pod on the cable. A month from that i joined the military and had no contact with the outside world for a couple of months. I told the dealer to hold on to the cables when it came back. But when i called them after my bootcamp training, they told me that they stopped working with Brimar and that Brimar found a new dealer. They were having a hard time contacting them and hadn't sent my cables in for repair and addition of the pods. I was frustrated with the lack of after service and told them that i would contact Brimar myself and get it fixed if they paid for all the fees. They agreed and so i sent Brimar the cables after contacting them on Facebook. The first time i shipped them, it came back after 3 attempts at delivery so i shipped it again. Since then i lost contact. I wish they could let me know if they got the cables and why the cables are sounding off. Im not sure how a cable can shift in SQ in 10 min of usage. If it is a problem with the termination or wire, there would have been no sound through one or both sides. The dealer also agreed to this and was confused of how the cables could go from the clearest of any to muddy. Anyways as long as i can get the cables with pod that doesnt sound off or a full refund i would be happy. Even though their customer service is driving me crazy, their cables are so good id probably buy another if they gave me a refund.


----------



## koven

artpiggo said:


> Yes you can start with brimar the prince.



Has anyone tried the lower end Brimar like Prince or Grand Duke? Can't seem to find any impressions or even pics.


----------



## artpiggo (May 31, 2018)

koven said:


> Has anyone tried the lower end Brimar like Prince or Grand Duke? Can't seem to find any impressions or even pics.



I have brimar sxc which is changed name to prince. (Silver plated copper). I can share some photo later.

I also owned monarch Ag which change name to Grand duke.
http://www.jetliveaudio.com/index.php?mo=29&keyword=Brimar


----------



## rtjoa

honeyjjack said:


> When i got the cable i realized the store i ordered it from forgot to tell Brimar to add the bass pod. I had listed it for sale because i lost one side of my Layla. When it didn't sell, I took the cable to a friend who had a universal layla and realized It had way too much bass without the pod(The bass pod is a resistor that controls how much bass to reduce). But other than that the match up sounded so good i decided to buy another set of Laylas. When my new Layla came, i still had the cables on me(was still contemplating if i wanted to keep the cable as is even with elevated bass) so i spent some time listening to them. Within 10 min or so of listening the sound suddenly shifted. It sounded veiled and dark, with the vocals further off and muffled. It sounded almost like when you half plug in an aux cord of a speaker but not to that extent. I sent the cables to the dealer and since i had to send them back anyway, i wanted to add the pod on the cable. A month from that i joined the military and had no contact with the outside world for a couple of months. I told the dealer to hold on to the cables when it came back. But when i called them after my bootcamp training, they told me that they stopped working with Brimar and that Brimar found a new dealer. They were having a hard time contacting them and hadn't sent my cables in for repair and addition of the pods. I was frustrated with the lack of after service and told them that i would contact Brimar myself and get it fixed if they paid for all the fees. They agreed and so i sent Brimar the cables after contacting them on Facebook. The first time i shipped them, it came back after 3 attempts at delivery so i shipped it again. Since then i lost contact. I wish they could let me know if they got the cables and why the cables are sounding off. Im not sure how a cable can shift in SQ in 10 min of usage. If it is a problem with the termination or wire, there would have been no sound through one or both sides. The dealer also agreed to this and was confused of how the cables could go from the clearest of any to muddy. Anyways as long as i can get the cables with pod that doesnt sound off or a full refund i would be happy. Even though their customer service is driving me crazy, their cables are so good id probably buy another if they gave me a refund.


Can you please send me your order no or any reference number? Thanks


----------



## Vansound

Hello guys, anyone can help to explain the character sound of RSDsilver mk3 from rhapsodio? It's neutral? What will improve with this cable? I need cable that doesn't change the signature of the iem but improve in every sector. Btw, my iem is Prophile 8. Thanks guys


----------



## honeyjjack

rtjoa said:


> Can you please send me your order no or any reference number? Thanks


Brimar finally replied telling me that they received the cables and is on the que for checking. Hopefully theyll keep me updated.


----------



## rtjoa

honeyjjack said:


> Brimar finally replied telling me that they received the cables and is on the que for checking. Hopefully theyll keep me updated.


Thanks for the update


----------



## koven

artpiggo said:


> I have brimar sxc which is changed name to prince. (Silver plated copper). I can share some photo later.
> 
> I also owned monarch Ag which change name to Grand duke.
> http://www.jetliveaudio.com/index.php?mo=29&keyword=Brimar



Yes please post some pics and impressions!


----------



## artpiggo (Jun 1, 2018)

Picture first

Monarch Ag (aka grand duke): I can rank this pure silver cable as the best price-per-performance silver cable I tried till date. (wins EA Thor Silver in any edition and very close to BA Prima donna) transparent, details, accurate focus, extended treble but have no irritating peak. The bass becomes tighter. The most impression is it provides widest soundstage. Truly great for monitoring. Pretty match with basshead/ warm tone IEM like westone very well. 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supreme Ref (Still their TOTL Brimar Cable) It is 7% gold-filling silver cable (AKA CROWN). The sound is very natural and feel like you are enjoying in a live music. The soundstage is very immersive and 3D. vocal is so smooth and natural. It has all the same like Ag cable but much more realistic and more euphonic vocal. From test side by side with EA Horus with U12, I found Supreme Ref gives much more natural treble,more mid-centric while Horus provides more sparkling treble/open female vocal. Depending on matching and preference.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SXC (same as The prince's material ) It is the picture from the the very first generation (around 2014) of silver plated copper. It starts with 4 briads which I prefer than 8 braids due to the portabablity. It is the very decent starter from Brimar cable. The insulator is very soft and pleasant to touch. This cables give a deeper bass, fuller vocal and more impact so it is more fun and impactful with smooth treble. It is very decent match with IEM that you think it is too thin and low impact and bass. This cable,at that time MSRP is only $150, still gives much more than the price tag than any other silver plated copper both at that time and in this era. 

PS. The reason The prince is double price from SXC is that it is 8 braids instead of 4 (In the past 8 braids version is called "Monarch SXC V3" http://www.jetliveaudio.com/product/1124128/brimar-audio-monarch-sxc-v3.html)






Like any other brand, Brimar does have its own house sound. so if you love its starter cable, you are inclined to love all of Brimar product line. I know that it is very hard to contact Brimar Owner directly except your country has sole distributor. But this is just for sharing thought.


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> In my personal opinion, the only other EA cable that's *clearly* technically-superior than the Eos is the Horus. I'd say the Lionheart is technically on-par if not slightly more forgiving due to its inherently natural and pleasing presentation.



i am thinking of selling my pw5 , eos takes all the cake with my zeus XR

great cable , and amazing synergy with my zeus - and huge VfM , imho


----------



## nick97

can I get some pw audio Saladin impressions/reviews ladies and gentlemen? anything you've got would be appreciated


----------



## chaiyuta (Jun 5, 2018)

Luminox Audio started selling in Japan!!! Link1 and Link2


----------



## Deezel177

chaiyuta said:


> Luminox Audio started selling in Japan!!! Link1 and Link2



They look very promising! Do you have any prior experience/knowledge about their brand? I'd be keen to check them out some day.


----------



## chaiyuta

@Deezel177 : I heard this brand before during I made the Asia Cable Brand List. In that time, Mr. @audio123 raise Luminox Audio (LNA) brand to be added. In e-earphone blog, it was stated that Luminox own "Pairing Balance Technology" (PB) which could sustain SQ of unbalanced plug version to be equivalent to balanced plug version. It was further stated that this Taiwan brand procures Copper from Japan and making OCC process and further R&D in Taiwan. Joking aside, recently Cross Lambda Audio (CL) just released new cable called "Reflection" which is 4-wire or 8-wire of 7N OCC Silver plated Copper specs and Luminox also released the entry level cable called "Reflection" which is 6-wire of OCC Silver plated Copper specs as well. This name remind me of "White Reflection" (ホワイト・リフレクション) music track from Two-Mix, Youtube Link. ~"I feel your love, Re-fu-re-ku-chon"~


----------



## San Man

chaiyuta said:


> @Deezel177  In e-earphone blog, it was stated that Luminox own "Pairing Balance Technology" (PB) which could sustain SQ of unbalanced plug version to be equivalent to balanced plug version.



Not trying to start and argument, but that's a huge claim for anyone to make.


----------



## Deezel177

San Man said:


> Not trying to start and argument, but that's a huge claim for anyone to make.



In pro audio, the main benefit of balanced vs. unbalanced is the elimination of interference (especially at longer distances). I assume this technology will have a workaround that's more geared towards that, but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding.


----------



## San Man

Deezel177 said:


> In pro audio, the main benefit of balanced vs. unbalanced is the elimination of interference (especially at longer distances). I assume this technology will have a workaround that's more geared towards that, but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding.



Very true D, that's one of those "have to hear it to believe it" kinda deals.


----------



## chaiyuta

@San Man @Deezel177  : It's fine. I don't think about it seriously. I just translated from what I read. Likes many brands try to make their own cool abbreviation technology. In this day, if I buy upgraded cable, I would pick up a cable with balanced plug.


----------



## artpiggo

This signature is totally @chaiyuta


----------



## tim0chan

Anyone has any opinions on PE Vs PVC Vs Teflon insulation for cables?


----------



## artpiggo

tim0chan said:


> Anyone has any opinions on PE Vs PVC Vs Teflon insulation for cables?



From what I heard from audiophiles, teflon is the best insulator in term of sq. PVC is poorest.


----------



## chaiyuta

Many experts said the best SQ is Teflon. The ordering from best to worse is probably Teflon > FEP > PFA > PTFE ~ TPE ~ TPU > PVC. Though the most softest available now is so called "Ultra Flexible PVC" insulator.


----------



## pithyginger63

chaiyuta said:


> Many experts said the best SQ is Teflon. The ordering from best to worse is probably Teflon > FEP > PFA > PTFE ~ TPE ~ TPU > PVC. Though the most softest available now is so called "Ultra Flexible PVC" insulator.


i have no experience with cables, how much difference is between each type of insulation? i'm guessing it is a slight difference


----------



## ctsooner22

Deezel177 said:


> In pro audio, the main benefit of balanced vs. unbalanced is the elimination of interference (especially at longer distances). I assume this technology will have a workaround that's more geared towards that, but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding.



Thanks for baiting me Daniel, lol.  The thing is that balanced needs to be a true balanced connection from building a redundancy into the source and amps (positive and negative) and then using a balanced cable to carry that signal as many know.  It will lower the noise floor and also add a few DB most of the time. Implementation is critical.  I have the AK380cu and amp and it's balanced connection isn't any better than it's single ended one.  Too bad for such an expensive device.  I run only a dual differential balanced system with zero negative feedback for my 2 channel gear.  YES, it makes quite a bit of difference.  



artpiggo said:


> From what I heard from audiophiles, teflon is the best insulator in term of sq. PVC is poorest.



This is what most are doing with their newest top of teh line capacitors.  I have a new server/DAC being built and we are trying StealthCaps by Peter Moncreif first and then will install V Cap CUTF for the bypass caps.  A few of use will audition both sets of bypass caps and decide which ones are best (8 total).  They are not cheap, but teh designer needs to figure out which are best.  This is similar to what Rossi used to do when he did upgrades to the DAP's.....  Teflon, when implemented properly, will be the best sort of.  The StealthCaps are a bit different design.  My Audioquest cables all use a high grade of Teflon in their construction.  Again, like carbon fiber, you have various grades and all sound different.  Sorry to derail the thread, lol.  Until I stop getting likes on these types of posts, I'll keep posting, lol.


----------



## Deezel177

ctsooner22 said:


> Thanks for baiting me Daniel, lol.  The thing is that balanced needs to be a true balanced connection from building a redundancy into the source and amps (positive and negative) and then using a balanced cable to carry that signal as many know.  It will lower the noise floor and also add a few DB most of the time. Implementation is critical.  I have the AK380cu and amp and it's balanced connection isn't any better than it's single ended one.  Too bad for such an expensive device.  I run only a dual differential balanced system with zero negative feedback for my 2 channel gear.  YES, it makes quite a bit of difference.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what most are doing with their newest top of teh line capacitors.  I have a new server/DAC being built and we are trying StealthCaps by Peter Moncreif first and then will install V Cap CUTF for the bypass caps.  A few of use will audition both sets of bypass caps and decide which ones are best (8 total).  They are not cheap, but teh designer needs to figure out which are best.  This is similar to what Rossi used to do when he did upgrades to the DAP's.....  Teflon, when implemented properly, will be the best sort of.  The StealthCaps are a bit different design.  My Audioquest cables all use a high grade of Teflon in their construction.  Again, like carbon fiber, you have various grades and all sound different.  Sorry to derail the thread, lol.  Until I stop getting likes on these types of posts, I'll keep posting, lol.



No worries, Pete.  I was surmising that the company would simulate the effects of balanced by somehow reducing analog interference, but that's just a spitball guess.


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> i have no experience with cables, how much difference is between each type of insulation? i'm guessing it is a slight difference


Very big xD, sq, ergonomics and looks


----------



## papa_mia

Good day, everyone. I have a question:
Has any of you guys heard the PWaudio Sevenfold pipe series Copper, can you give me some general impressions about it, like how it sounds compared to say Ares II or No. 5?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## honeyjjack

Anyone have recommendations for 3.5-3.5 short interconnects for my lpg and alo v5? Thinking of lavricables 20 wire or dhc.


----------



## kubig123

honeyjjack said:


> Anyone have recommendations for 3.5-3.5 short interconnects for my lpg and alo v5? Thinking of lavricables 20 wire or dhc.


I ordered one from Plussound, 16 wire, extremly flexible, lavricables makes great cables and they are not too expensive, but their interconnect are not very flexible.


----------



## pithyginger63

kubig123 said:


> I ordered one from Plussound, 16 wire, extremly flexible, lavricables makes great cables and they are not too expensive, but their interconnect are not very flexible.


my god that thickness is impressive


----------



## Deezel177

papa_mia said:


> Good day, everyone. I have a question:
> Has any of you guys heard the PWaudio Sevenfold pipe series Copper, can you give me some general impressions about it, like how it sounds compared to say Ares II or No. 5?
> Thanks in advance.



I’ll be visiting Music Sanctuary tomorrow, so I’ll try my best to demo it if they have one on hand.


----------



## papa_mia

Deezel177 said:


> I’ll be visiting Music Sanctuary tomorrow, so I’ll try my best to demo it if they have one on hand.


Appreciated, thank you very much.


----------



## Blommen

pithyginger63 said:


> my god that thickness is impressive


*Must resist urge to joke*


----------



## papa_mia

pithyginger63 said:


> my god that thickness is impressive





Blommen said:


> *Must resist urge to joke*


Yeah, they look like them noodles in a Ramen bowl, aren't they?.......
#nohomo


----------



## audio123 (Jun 7, 2018)

Enjoy the review on Han Sound Aegis! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/06/08/han-sound-aegis/


----------



## pithyginger63

papa_mia said:


> Ramen


----------



## ctsooner22

Hope the Hans review doesn’t get lost in the ramen. 

See, I made no reference to girth or length of noodle.  None!  So proud of myself for playing well in the sandbox with others. Wife will be so proud


----------



## papa_mia

pithyginger63 said:


>


In bird culture, posting Ramen pics after 10pm is considered a crime, and my stomach just named you Public enemy No. 1.


----------



## scootermafia

meomap said:


> I am still waiting for my 3.5mm to 3.5 mm mini since August.
> Really !!! for a Mini????
> Emailed couple times but no reply.
> This will be my 4th cables with DHC.


Tracked you down and emailed you.  Don't know how this one slipped through the cracks as it somehow didn't make it to my spreadsheet, but my last email from you was September 2017.  Don't know if they got junk filtered or what, but the last email was within a month of the order.


----------



## meomap

scootermafia said:


> Tracked you down and emailed you.  Don't know how this one slipped through the cracks as it somehow didn't make it to my spreadsheet, but my last email from you was September 2017.  Don't know if they got junk filtered or what, but the last email was within a month of the order.



Hi,
Already worked it out.
Thanks.


----------



## SeeSax (Jun 10, 2018)

Editing my post, wanted to show a photo of my newly re-terminated Leo cable, now with the Rhapsodio 2-pin connectors (the EA ones were too loose in my Mason IEMs for some reason. They sure look the part, matching perfectly with the y-split and 2.5mm plug.


 

-Colin-


----------



## artpiggo

SeeSax said:


> Editing my post, wanted to show a photo of my newly re-terminated Leo cable, now with the Rhapsodio 2-pin connectors (the EA ones were too loose in my Mason IEMs for some reason. They sure look the part, matching perfectly with the y-split and 2.5mm plug.
> 
> 
> 
> -Colin-



IEM in the pic is Mason? Why is it 2 pin?

EDIT: I see you are using Mason V2


----------



## SeeSax

artpiggo said:


> IEM in the pic is Mason? Why is it 2 pin?
> 
> EDIT: I see you are using Mason V2



Correct, Mason II from Japan is normal two pin recessed sockets 

-Collin-


----------



## PinkyPowers

Such a perdy thang...

*The Breadth of Existence – A Review of the Effect Audio Thor Silver II Bespoke*
​


----------



## pithyginger63

PinkyPowers said:


> perdy thang


runny kine? 


if you don't get this reference, feel free to ask


----------



## Blommen

PinkyPowers said:


> Such a perdy thang...
> 
> *The Breadth of Existence – A Review of the Effect Audio Thor Silver II Bespoke*
> ​



Thank you for a great review! Unfortunately I fell asleep yesterday before you posted it but it goes great with my morning coffee 

I guess this is the cable I'll end up with for the Vantage, it seems exactly like what I am looking for, great soundstage, smooth highs and still powerful bass. 

So I just need to sell my Lionheart, it goes great with the IMR R1 but I find it a bit overkill price wise. Also I'd have to alter the cable in order for it to fit

Again, thanks @PinkyPowers for making up my mind!


----------



## pithyginger63

PinkyPowers said:


> Such a perdy thang...
> 
> *The Breadth of Existence – A Review of the Effect Audio Thor Silver II Bespoke*
> ​


the 6 wire you didn't like ergonomically was the PS t-metal right?


----------



## chaiyuta

2 Weeks ago, I sent my specific connectors consisting of Gold plated Tecu 2-pin connectors and 4.4 mm Gold plated 3N copper plug for making Brimar The Prince IEM cable. Yesterday, Brimar sent me its pictures~

Thanks Brimar for accepting my picky request.



Spoiler: Brimar The Prince


----------



## PinkyPowers

pithyginger63 said:


> the 6 wire you didn't like ergonomically was the PS t-metal right?



Yes. But that was before they updated their insulation. I'm curious how I'd handle it now.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys, I just posted my CanJam SG 2018 article on TheHeadphoneList.com, which you can check out HERE. Below are excerpts from the article detailing PWAudio's latest series of cables, including their co-flagship 1950s. I also wrote impressions of Effect Audio's two Janus cables, which you can check out on their official thread soon. Cheers!
> 
> *PWAudio*
> 
> ...



Which would be a natural upgrade over the *PW Audio No. 5 (4 wire)* if I mainly wanted more air and bigger soundstage? Most of the reviews I've read seem to suggest upgrading to 8 wire is the best option.

*Loki* seems it will be too bright for the Hyla CE-5. *Xerxes (4 wire)* is unfortunately a little over my budget that I would be comfortable spending with on an IEM cable, but if this is the best option I can reconsider. *Saladin (4 wire) *seems to be more similar than different than the No. 5, and the 8 wire version is even further above my ideal budget.


----------



## Deezel177

ctaxxxx said:


> Which would be a natural upgrade over the *PW Audio No. 5 (4 wire)* if I mainly wanted more air and bigger soundstage? Most of the reviews I've read seem to suggest upgrading to 8 wire is the best option.
> 
> *Loki* seems it will be too bright for the Hyla CE-5. *Xerxes (4 wire)* is unfortunately a little over my budget that I would be comfortable spending with on an IEM cable, but if this is the best option I can reconsider. *Saladin (4 wire) *seems to be more similar than different than the No. 5, and the 8 wire version is even further above my ideal budget.



Try asking PWAudio whether or not they'd be willing to upgrade your No. 5 to an 8-wire variant.


----------



## nick97

Deezel177 said:


> Try asking PWAudio whether or not they'd be willing to upgrade your No. 5 to an 8-wire variant.


 does anyone have a picture of the 8 wire version of this cable?


----------



## ctaxxxx

nick97 said:


> does anyone have a picture of the 8 wire version of this cable?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-pwaudio-n°5-8-braid-2pin-4-4mm.881928/#post-14301731


----------



## nick97

ctaxxxx said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-pwaudio-n°5-8-braid-2pin-4-4mm.881928/#post-14301731


pretty nice, she thicc


----------



## kubig123

ctaxxxx said:


> Which would be a natural upgrade over the *PW Audio No. 5 (4 wire)* if I mainly wanted more air and bigger soundstage? Most of the reviews I've read seem to suggest upgrading to 8 wire is the best option.
> 
> *Loki* seems it will be too bright for the Hyla CE-5. *Xerxes (4 wire)* is unfortunately a little over my budget that I would be comfortable spending with on an IEM cable, but if this is the best option I can reconsider. *Saladin (4 wire) *seems to be more similar than different than the No. 5, and the 8 wire version is even further above my ideal budget.


I have both the n.5 and the Saladin in the 8 wire configuration, I personally found them quite different, the Saladin, thanks to the silver, increases the treble and is slightly more transparent in the mids. 
The Saladin it’s a great cable, PW has improved the insulation and it’s more supple than the n.5.


----------



## ctaxxxx

How does an 8 wire compare to the thickness of the + series by Effect Audio? (I have the Ares II+)

What is the plus series? 6 wire?


----------



## PinkyPowers

ctaxxxx said:


> How does an 8 wire compare to the thickness of the + series by Effect Audio? (I have the Ares II+)
> 
> What is the plus series? 6 wire?



The standard cable EA makes, such as Ares II and Thor II is a 26AWG 4-wire configuration. The +  version is still only 4-wire, but of a thicker gauge. 22AWG.

If you order a Bespoke 8-wire, each individual strand will be 26AWG or 22AWG, depending on if you asked for the + version or not.


----------



## Deezel177

ctaxxxx said:


> How does an 8 wire compare to the thickness of the + series by Effect Audio? (I have the Ares II+)
> 
> What is the plus series? 6 wire?



In practical use, an 8-wire non-(+) cable is heavier than a 4-wire (+) cable, but the former is more supple and flexible than the latter.


----------



## olddude

I just got an EA Ares ll 8-wire.  Love it!  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/empire-ears-discussion-impressions-formerly-earwerkz.786335/page-949   Post # 14232


----------



## audio123 (Jun 16, 2018)

For those interested in all my Han Sound Cable Reviews to date.

Enjoy reading! 

Zen: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/04/02/han-sound-zen/

Muse II: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/02/14/han-sound-muse-ii/

Aegis: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/06/08/han-sound-aegis/


----------



## honeyjjack

I had an effect audio eros2+ for my focal elears which i sold. Since they were too thick to reterminate to 2 pins, i decided to recycle them into 3.5 mini cables. Thinking of turning it into two 14 wire mini cables with large bore viablue plugs, one silver one copper. Also got myself three ALO cxs 18 mini cables to reterminate into single 9 wire mini cable by using a thinner, more flexible insulation that will allow 9 wires to fit into the larger bore viablue plugs. They will connect my LPG to ALO V5s. I will share my impressions if people are interested. Also might sell one or two of these one of a kind cables because i dont need all three.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Again, Pinky violates the "IEM" requirement. Someone must stop him!

*Without Walls or Ceiling – A Review of the DHC Molecule 19 Elite Fusion*
​


----------



## tim0chan

honeyjjack said:


> I had an effect audio eros2+ for my focal elears which i sold. Since they were too thick to reterminate to 2 pins, i decided to recycle them into 3.5 mini cables. Thinking of turning it into two 14 wire mini cables with large bore viablue plugs, one silver one copper. Also got myself three ALO cxs 18 mini cables to reterminate into single 9 wire mini cable by using a thinner, more flexible insulation that will allow 9 wires to fit into the larger bore viablue plugs. They will connect my LPG to ALO V5s. I will share my impressions if people are interested. Also might sell one or two of these one of a kind cables because i dont need all three.


Ermmmmm effect audio uses mundorf solder. Idk abt the alo. Pls RMB the sound is also affected by the solder


----------



## artpiggo

tim0chan said:


> Ermmmmm effect audio uses mundorf solder. Idk abt the alo. Pls RMB the sound is also affected by the solder



I think EA uses various kinds of solder depending on their matching for each type.


----------



## pithyginger63

I'm still not experienced with cables partially due to budgeting reasons, but I wanted to ask about ways a cable changes based off wire count. I read somewhere that with the same material type, a cable loses its sound characteristics as the wire count increases, more so with copper cables. However, I'm more interested in trying out a silver cable so I wanted to ask. In general, do silver cables lose their sound characteristics as wire count increases?


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> I'm still not experienced with cables partially due to budgeting reasons, but I wanted to ask about ways a cable changes based off wire count. I read somewhere that with the same material type, a cable loses its sound characteristics as the wire count increases, more so with copper cables. However, I'm more interested in trying out a silver cable so I wanted to ask. In general, do silver cables lose their sound characteristics as wire count increases?


in general, like really general, (there are many cables that buck the trend) yes, in a sense. thick silver cables like the hydra that ive tried seems to tend to be more balanced thsn the typical bright silver but ymmv


----------



## pithyginger63

tim0chan said:


> in general, like really general, (there are many cables that buck the trend) yes, in a sense. thick silver cables like the hydra that ive tried seems to tend to be more balanced thsn the typical bright silver but ymmv


thanks! could you list some of the cables that break that trend? thanks again!


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> thanks! could you list some of the cables that break that trend? thanks again!


Effect audio ares ii, the ares ii is a copper cable that's more energetic in the treble while the + ver(thicker) sounds warmer.


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> I'm still not experienced with cables partially due to budgeting reasons, but I wanted to ask about ways a cable changes based off wire count. I read somewhere that with the same material type, a cable loses its sound characteristics as the wire count increases, more so with copper cables. However, I'm more interested in trying out a silver cable so I wanted to ask. In general, do silver cables lose their sound characteristics as wire count increases?



As wire count increases, in my experience, what you’ll hear is better extension on both ends, resulting in significant improvements in headroom. I’ve used this analogy before, but it sounds like the same band playing in a bigger venue. The instruments stay the same in terms of location and size, but there’s more freedom and air within that stage that makes the *entirety* of the band infinitely easier to listen to and absorb.

With regards to how it affects a specific flavour or characteristic, I think it depends on what colouration it is in the first place. In my review of the 8-wire Lionheart, I described the sound as gaining more air to breathe, but losing the rich euphony and cohesion that defined the 4-wire's signature. This is because that feeling of closeness and musicality is directly related to how the wire count increase affects the stage. On the other hand, you have wires like the Ares II where the 8-wire version retains the natural tonality of the 4-wire *with *the increased headroom of the stage. So, it's highly dependent, but the only constant I've found - again - is increased headroom due to bidirectional extension.


----------



## twister6

Deezel177 said:


> As wire count increases, in my experience, what you’ll hear is better extension on both ends, resulting in significant improvements in headroom. I’ve used this analogy before, but it sounds like the same band playing in a bigger venue. The instruments stay the same in terms of location and size, but there’s more freedom and air within that stage that makes the *entirety* of the band infinitely easier to listen to and absorb.
> 
> With regards to how it affects a specific flavour or characteristic, I think it depends on what colouration it is in the first place. In my review of the 8-wire Lionheart, I described the sound as gaining more air to breathe, but losing the rich euphony and cohesion that defined the 4-wire's signature. This is because that feeling of closeness and musicality is directly related to how the wire count increase affects the stage. On the other hand, you have wires like the Ares II where the 8-wire version retains the natural tonality of the 4-wire *with *the increased headroom of the stage. So, it's highly dependent, but the only constant I've found - again - is increased headroom due to bidirectional extension.



Another important factor, as wire count goes up, cross section area of signal flow increases, and the impedance of the cable decreases. Material of the cable is important and will contribute, especially when you consider skin-effect (electric signal travels on the surface, not the core of the wire) of the plated wires, but what even more important is impedance measurement of the drivers/crossover across FR which in many cases is not constant and it will affect the sound in combination with output impedance of the source. The spec manufacturers provide of iem impedance is usually a number at one specific frequency, while it could actually vary across FR.


----------



## olddude

More wires more money.  Thicker wires more money.  Like everything else here, what YOU hear with YOUR equipment may be different from other's experience, as all of us hear differently and most of us use different equipment  and have different sound signature needs.  I have had the Ares ll and the Ares ll+, and they are indeed very different (although both 4-wire).  The + was thicker in circumference, quite a beautiful cable.  The sound?  Less treble, more bottom-end.  I thought it had a very apparent bass floor (the area below the mids), where the Ares ll is fairly well-balanced.  The Ares ll 8-wire is very much like the Ares ll 4-wire except for, as mentioned above, all of the space the instruments and voices have to work in.  It seems to me that I can hear more (which makes sense as everything has more room), and it feels a bit  more impactful in the mids and below, which is probably for the same reason.  It loses a bit of intimacy because of its space, but, depending on your music, it's no great loss.  I've spent the past few days listening to the 8-wire using a wide (wide!) variety of my music and I've only found a few tracks or albums that aren't improved by it.  And some of them just need some brain burn-in to get used to the differences.  The cable itself is certainly thicker, but it is more solid and supple than is the 4-wire.  Cables are one of the trickiest things to get into with your audio, as they can really change the sound in good ways or bad.  I sold my Ares+ after a week, great cable but not for me.  I had a Moon Silver Dragon for my Angie which sounded fantastic with my AK240ss but got really tinny-sounding in the upper end with the Astell SP1000ss.  There is a certain amount of guesswork involved in choosing an upgrade, cable even when people tell you what they hear with it.  Sometimes you just have to buy one and hear for yourself.  The nice thing about Head-fi is you can always sell what you bought to someone else who will really like it even if you don't.


----------



## SeeSax

twister6 said:


> Another important factor, as wire count goes up, cross section area of signal flow increases, and the impedance of the cable decreases. Material of the cable is important and will contribute, especially when you consider skin-effect (electric signal travels on the surface, not the core of the wire) of the plated wires, but what even more important is impedance measurement of the drivers/crossover across FR which in many cases is not constant and it will affect the sound in combination with output impedance of the source. The spec manufacturers provide of iem impedance is usually a number at one specific frequency, while it could actually vary across FR.



This is an interesting point. Any idea how significant the decrease in impedance is? The reason I ask is that I use a Rhapsodio Zombie IEM (among tons of others) which is listed as 6ohm and have recently "upgraded" them to an 8-wire cable from a 4-wire cable. I was not blown away by the changes to say the least and I think I actually prefer the 4-wire cable. Interestingly, the cables are identical and from the same manufacturer and only differ in wire count. I guess you could say that I unreasonably expected my experience to be better with more wires 

-Collin-


----------



## twister6

SeeSax said:


> This is an interesting point. Any idea how significant the decrease in impedance is? The reason I ask is that I use a Rhapsodio Zombie IEM (among tons of others) which is listed as 6ohm and have recently "upgraded" them to an 8-wire cable from a 4-wire cable. I was not blown away by the changes to say the least and I think I actually prefer the 4-wire cable. Interestingly, the cables are identical and from the same manufacturer and only differ in wire count. I guess you could say that I unreasonably expected my experience to be better with more wires
> 
> -Collin-



Impedance decrease is something that needs to be measured, and it will depend on the type of wires material and the solder (everything contributes to extra resistance).  Regarding the sound changes, too many variables in that equation, but one thing for sure - more wires or more expensive cable doesn't guarantee a better performance.  I came across some pair ups where I set aside $2k 1960 4wire in favor of something like $500 Lionheart or  $150 Ares II or No 5.  There are formulas to factor in output impedance of the source, impedance of the wires, impedance of IEMs, etc., but at the end of the day it's your ears and good old trial'n'error cable rolling to find the best pair up synergy with everything you got.  It's the same way how you look at similar shaped FRs of different IEMs and can kind of predict the direction of tuning, but they will still sound different despite "looking" the same.


----------



## audio123 (Jun 18, 2018)

Next up are reviews of all the Penon Cables. Enjoy reading! 

CS819: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/06/11/penon-cs819/

OS849: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2017/10/22/penon-os849/

GS849: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/penon-gs849/


----------



## honeyjjack

tim0chan said:


> Ermmmmm effect audio uses mundorf solder. Idk abt the alo. Pls RMB the sound is also affected by the solder


I will be using WBT 4% solder. Wonder if this should be fine or if i should go for mundorf.


----------



## tim0chan

honeyjjack said:


> I will be using WBT 4% solder. Wonder if this should be fine or if i should go for mundorf.


Id  recommend following the manufacturer cos any changes will screw with the sound. Like how I tried  to Diy my own plussound X series cable with mundorf, it backfired horribly, so I went with a different solder to fix it


----------



## Blommen

Guys, you who have access to and have tried a lot of cables, what cable will give me the most holographic /3d soundstage while still retaining bass and smooth highs??

I have just sold my Lionheart as I found it too mid focused for me and not a great pair with the EE Vantage, the Ares II actually sounds better here to me. 

I am considering just getting a 8-wire Ares II or a Thor II 8-wire, which is prob the limit of my budget, 800$ - ish

Thanks!


----------



## tim0chan

Blommen said:


> Guys, you who have access to and have tried a lot of cables, what cable will give me the most holographic /3d soundstage while still retaining bass and smooth highs??
> 
> I have just sold my Lionheart as I found it too mid focused for me and not a great pair with the EE Vantage, the Ares II actually sounds better here to me.
> 
> ...


@PinkyPowers would recommend the thor if im not wrong. I second that recommendation.


----------



## artpiggo (Jun 22, 2018)

There are various types of solder sold in the market both worldwide and Japan-orient. I have once obsessed with solder rolling by using ve monk to try out the sound differences. I know the methodology/temperature of soldering is also taken into consideration. But I would like to share for whoever interested in choosing solder. YMMV

Inter Brand
1. WBT: It is like plain milk. there is no add in any frequency. The most flat sounding solder.
2. Mundorf: It is "highly" upper-mid centric solder. If your IEM is bassy and you want some sparkles, this solder is for your consideration
3. Cardas: Sound like WBT but a little bit more in Bass, a little bit sweeter in mid
4. Viablue: It adds a little in treble until mid bass. seems to be very natural sounding solder.  It is like mundorf but not have 'edges' like mundorf. Best match with its own viablu plug
5. Oyaide: Only adds treble, mid becomes no meaty, bass is reduced. In sum, least fav solder for me.
6. Wonder: The cheapest solder. warm mid but soundstage is reduced. (It is ok because it is half cheaper than oyaide)
7. Ranko1020 It is like Cardas but tighter bass and thicker mid
8. Furutech adds mid to subbass but not sparkle treble. For those who want more impact

Japan-grade
7. Rosenkranz: vivid sounding, a boost in treble and mid. not much bass
8. HUM: For me, best sounding ever, Good amount of bass and treble, natural vocal, fun sounding, not too plain/bright/bassy. Feel a little warmer..like tube.
9. Platinum gold nikkas: It is like mixing between Rosen and HUM. But towards Rosen side. Vocal is better than Rosen but not euphonic as HUM.

Again it needs to match with plug&connectors as well. YMMV.
However, I do believe that plugs/connector/solder comes with factory and  manufacturer. That is the best sounding they can provide already. Solder rolling is just for those who don't have anything to upgrade but still have money to waste.


----------



## pithyginger63

i never paid much attention to dhc cables, but i was looking at their symbiote elite 19 and im particularly interested in the fusion cable off silver and copper. Anyone ever owned it? i cant really find that many reviews on it


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> i never paid much attention to dhc cables, but i was looking at their symbiote elite 19 and im particularly interested in the fusion cable off silver and copper. Anyone ever owned it? i cant really find that many reviews on it


I have their newest cable, the dhc clone fusion. It sounds really good, very transparent and the decay sounds very accurate


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> i never paid much attention to dhc cables, but i was looking at their symbiote elite 19 and im particularly interested in the fusion cable off silver and copper. Anyone ever owned it? i cant really find that many reviews on it



@PinkyPowers reviewed the Molecule Elite 19 Fusion quite recently on THL: http://theheadphonelist.com/without-walls-or-ceiling-a-review-of-the-dhc-molecule-19-elite-fusion/. Although they're different wire gauges, I can imagine they'd have several qualities in common.


----------



## pithyginger63

I assume that most people hear focus on the sound aspect of a cable more than the aesthetics, but what are some massively thick and impressive cables that grab attention from strangers in the street that are still credibly flexible for iem use?


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> I assume that most people hear focus on the sound aspect of a cable more than the aesthetics, but what are some massively thick and impressive cables that grab attention from strangers in the street that are still credibly flexible for iem use?



Effect Audio's 8-wire Bespoke cables are great ways to draw attention.


----------



## paolo63 (Jun 26, 2018)

Sorry to post my problem here but did not found any thread to post it.
I have a balanced cable (from UM) and unfortunately the 2.5 mm plug broke. I am living in Germany and it is hard to find somebody who is able (willing) to do the repair.
Has anybody an idea who in Europe could do the repair? Thanks for any suggestion ...


----------



## LCeh

pithyginger63 said:


> I assume that most people hear focus on the sound aspect of a cable more than the aesthetics, but what are some massively thick and impressive cables that grab attention from strangers in the street that are still credibly flexible for iem use?



The toxic medusa 17 is quite impressive looking as well.


----------



## kubig123

LCeh said:


> The toxic medusa 17 is quite impressive looking as well.


i wonder how flexible it can be...


----------



## LCeh

kubig123 said:


> i wonder how flexible it can be...



I tried it a couple times and I didn't experience much problem with flexibility or microphonics.


----------



## 474194

Deezel177 said:


> @PinkyPowers reviewed the Molecule Elite 19 Fusion quite recently on THL: http://theheadphonelist.com/without-walls-or-ceiling-a-review-of-the-dhc-molecule-19-elite-fusion/. Although they're different wire gauges, I can imagine they'd have several qualities in common.



I'm lost on all these different cables.  Is this the same same or a different Elite19?  Molecule?  Symbiote?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/double-helix-cables-thread.600546/page-92#post-14295807

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hig...sons-and-reviews.804952/page-64#post-13585856


----------



## Deezel177

AC-12 said:


> I'm lost on all these different cables.  Is this the same same or a different Elite19?  Molecule?  Symbiote?
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/double-helix-cables-thread.600546/page-92#post-14295807
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hig...sons-and-reviews.804952/page-64#post-13585856



The Molecule Elite19 is a headphone cable, while the Symbiote Elite19 is an IEM cable. The ones you linked are both Symbiotes, while Pinky reviewed the Molecule.


----------



## popof94

paolo63 said:


> Sorry to post my problem here but did not found any thread to post it.
> I have a balanced cable (from UM) and unfortunately the 2.5 mm plug broke. I am living in Germany and it is hard to find somebody who is able (willing) to do the repair.
> Has anyboday an idea who in Europe could do the repair? Thanks for any suggestion ...


DM audio: https://www.dmaudio.net/ in France is able to repear it.


----------



## paolo63

popof94 said:


> DM audio: https://www.dmaudio.net/ in France is able to repear it.




Thanks a lot, I will contact them (hopefully they speak english). Thanks again!


----------



## popof94

paolo63 said:


> Thanks a lot, I will contact them (hopefully they speak english). Thanks again!


Of course, and they sell very good cable too.


----------



## XP_98 (Jun 26, 2018)

paolo63 said:


> Sorry to post my problem here but did not found any thread to post it.
> I have a balanced cable (from UM) and unfortunately the 2.5 mm plug broke. I am living in Germany and it is hard to find somebody who is able (willing) to do the repair.
> Has anyboday an idea who in Europe could do the repair? Thanks for any suggestion ...


Hello Paolo
On the French audio forum where I'm active, this cable manufacturer and modder is highly recommended. He also repairs. He is located in France : https://www.dmaudio.net
I think he speaks English (if not, PM me, I speak also German).
I must indicate that he seems to be very busy, I contacted him a few days ago and didn't get an answer so far.


----------



## paolo63

XP_98 said:


> Hello Paolo
> On the French audio forum where I'm active, this cable manufacturer and modder is highly recommended. He also repairs. He is located in France : https://www.dmaudio.net
> I think he speaks English (if not, PM me, I speak also German).
> I must indicate that he seems to be very busy, I contacted him a few days ago and didn't get an answer so far.




Thanks a lot XP_98,
it is the same manufacturer which was proposed by popov94. I will get in touch with him asap. Thank you again!


----------



## XP_98

Didn't see popov94 had already answered while I had prepared my message... So 100 % of respondents agree with DMaudio


----------



## chaiyuta

Last Saturday, oBravo Audio and K Studio held the oBravo Cable Contest 2018 in Thailand. The particant is around 20 team. I think it is nice to share it here. 

The below picture is the winner cable. oBravo will bring it up to any future audio show around 1 years from now on~.  Therefore I guess people who always join in the audio shows might find TOP3 or TOP5 of this cable contest in the future~. More pictures can find on oBravo Thailand.


----------



## audio123 (Jun 26, 2018)

For those who are interested in Luminox Audio cables, here are my reviews on them! Enjoy! 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/luminox-audiokilowatt/
https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/14/luminox-audio-day-for-night/


----------



## pithyginger63

has anyone tried the alo audio gold 16? i'm assuming its gonna have a very warm tonality


----------



## kubig123

pithyginger63 said:


> has anyone tried the alo audio gold 16? i'm assuming its gonna have a very warm tonality


I briefly try that cable and i didn't really like it at all, the sound was very congested, no separation and lack of details, meanwhile the cable is extremely micro-phonic, i was really disappointed.


----------



## kubig123

It has been over a week since i received my EA Janus D, the quality of the cable is outstanding, love thew new plugs, extremely supple and therefore extremely conformable even during my daily commute in the subway during rush hours.

For the first few days i pair it with the Warble Prelude (the cable is more expensive than the Prelude) and i have to say i was surprised how much the cable opens up the stage and add an incredible level of air, and i love how the vocals have gained resolution and transparency


----------



## SeeSax

kubig123 said:


> It has been over a week since i received my EA Janus D, the quality of the cable is outstanding, love thew new plugs, extremely supple and therefore extremely conformable even during my daily commute in the subway during rush hours.
> 
> For the first few days i pair it with the Warble Prelude (the cable is more expensive than the Prelude) and i have to say i was surprised how much the cable opens up the stage and add an incredible level of air, and i love how the vocals have gained resolution and transparency



You are a brave man bringing that cable anywhere near public transportation. When I'm on the train, light rail, etc. I automatically downgrade to my Shure SE846 and Null Audio beater cable! 

But, I guess these things are meant to be used...  

-Collin-


----------



## kubig123

SeeSax said:


> You are a brave man bringing that cable anywhere near public transportation. When I'm on the train, light rail, etc. I automatically downgrade to my Shure SE846 and Null Audio beater cable!
> 
> But, I guess these things are meant to be used...
> 
> -Collin-


I'm actually more worried about my iPhone than the dap or the earphones, than at home i have 2 little tasmanian devils and i never listen to music when they are awake...


----------



## Overkill Red (Jun 29, 2018)

If anyone's interested, I'm selling a 4wire PWAudio 1960 (2pin -> 4.4mm) , a Labkable Blue Horizon and a Music Sanctuary x Effect Audio Eos (both 2pin -> 2.5mm)


----------



## pithyginger63

Overkill Red said:


> If anyone's interested, I'm selling a 4wire PWAudio 1960, a Labkable Blue Horizon and a Music Sanctuary x Effect Audio Eos.


terminations?


----------



## Overkill Red

pithyginger63 said:


> terminations?



Whoops, updated my post


----------



## audio123 (Jun 29, 2018)

Campfire Audio Andromeda + Han Sound Aurora

This is a nice pairing. Bass texture is more smooth. The midrange has a higher intimacy level and showcases great finesse. In addition, treble has good liveliness. Overall, a full-bodied performance!


----------



## audio123

Cable brand from Vietnam, Satin Audio 

Official site : http://satinaudio.com/en/
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/SatinAudio/

@flinkenick Appreciate it if you can add this to the list. Thanks!


----------



## ctaxxxx

I still can't seem to decide between 8-wire, or a higher end 4-wire... 

For those with 8-wire, what cases do you use? I would need to buy a new one (with 4-wire it is a snug fit) since the current one isn't a large metal case like the Oriolus (which fits the Ares II+ and still has room).


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> I still can't seem to decide between 8-wire, or a higher end 4-wire...
> 
> For those with 8-wire, what cases do you use? I would need to buy a new one (with 4-wire it is a snug fit) since the current one isn't a large metal case like the Oriolus (which fits the Ares II+ and still has room).



I personally find that for around 15 bucks, you really can't beat the Pelican cases available on Amazon. If I am storing an IEM with a large, stiff 8-wire cable then it comes into a Pelican 1020. With smaller, more ergonomic 8-wire cable, the 1010. 

I think there are a lot of factors at play when comparing 8-wire cables to 4-wire cables. If the cables are of different makes, it is going to be very hard to draw any sort of conclusion just based on wire count. For example, the Leonidas 4-wire outperforms many 8-wire cables, yet I'm reading very good things about the 8-wire Ares II. Is this for the Oriolus in your sig, to replace the Ares II? If so, I find that a pure silver cable plays very nice with the Oriolus and currently mine is attached to a PW Audio 8-wire silver cable. I also used it with my pure silver Triton8 with the same audio quality, but moved that cable to a different IEM. 

Cheers, 

-Collin-


----------



## San Man

Deezel177 said:


> Effect Audio's 8-wire Bespoke cables are great ways to draw attention.



LOL for real.  I was basking in the glory of the Janus D last night at work, and my co-workers were looking at me like I was nuts haha!


----------



## PinkyPowers

I look forward to playing around with this Han Sound Audio Agni.


----------



## robertjwarren

Just curious, what is the length of the cable?


----------



## PinkyPowers

robertjwarren said:


> Just curious, what is the length of the cable?



Normal length. Don't know the exact inches.


----------



## tim0chan

robertjwarren said:


> Just curious, what is the length of the cable?





PinkyPowers said:


> Normal length. Don't know the exact inches.


1.2 m or 4 feet (for the Americans here)


----------



## Bosk

PinkyPowers said:


> I look forward to playing around with this Han Sound Audio Agni.


4 wire cables are sooooooooo 2017.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Bosk said:


> 4 wire cables are sooooooooo 2017.



Depends on the IEM. 8-Wire Thor II brings out the low-end and mid-range body in a big way. The FIBAE ME doesn't need any more bass or fullness, so I think a 4-wire silver might be perfect. I know Leonidas is great for that IEM.


----------



## Bosk

PinkyPowers said:


> Depends on the IEM. 8-Wire Thor II brings out the low-end and mid-range body in a big way. The FIBAE ME doesn't need any more bass or fullness, so I think a 4-wire silver might be perfect. I know Leonidas is great for that IEM.


Oh I wasn't being serious, merely referencing the excitement generated recently from all these Ares & Thor 8 wire reviews, including your own. 4 wire cables will always be lighter and usually more ergonomic that's for sure.


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 4, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> I still can't seem to decide between 8-wire, or a higher end 4-wire...
> 
> For those with 8-wire, what cases do you use? I would need to buy a new one (with 4-wire it is a snug fit) since the current one isn't a large metal case like the Oriolus (which fits the Ares II+ and still has room).



I can only speak for the Eros II 8W. Despite the higher wire count, the nature of its braid allows it to be easily rolled into a small coil and sits placidly (without any springy annoyance), when placed inside a case. As @SeeSax mentioned, the pelican 1010 works just fine to store and carry the Eros II 8W with the EE Phantom.

Now the Leonidas, its a step up, not only in terms of sound, but also in terms of cable ergonomics and looks. It set a new benchmark, as it is very supple, doesn't have any springy character and doesn't tangle very easily. It is also lighter than the 8W.

In terms of visual appeal, both sport a sophisticated look, but follow a different kind of sophistication. Leonidas has a subtle Royalty to its look. The Eros8 has a Bolder & Trendy look.

_P.S: Don't read too much into the adjectives I am using here. I am just being dramatic to help differentiate the 2 cables._


----------



## Bosk

EagleWings said:


> I can only speak for the Eros II 8W. Despite the higher wire count, the nature of its braid allows it to be easily rolled into a small coil and sits placidly (without any springy annoyance), when placed inside a case. As @SeeSax mentioned, the pelican 1010 works just fine to store and carry the Eros II 8W with the EE Phantom.
> 
> Now the Leonidas, its a step up, not only in terms of sound, but also in terms of cable ergonomics and looks. It set a new benchmark, as it is very supple, doesn't have any springy character and doesn't tangle very easily. It is also lighter than the 8W.
> 
> ...


You prefer the sound of the Leonidas over the Eros II 8 wire? I'm interested to hear your impressions of how they compare sonically.


----------



## surfratt

Anyone heard the PWaudio 1960 4 wire with the EE Phantoms?  If so, how is the synergy?


----------



## EagleWings

Bosk said:


> You prefer the sound of the Leonidas over the Eros II 8 wire? I'm interested to hear your impressions of how they compare sonically.



Both cables are more similar than different. Both present a very uncolored sound with good sub-bass. Leo’s bass impact is a touch stronger and has better treble extension. Leo’s upper treble can become a touch prominent when pairing with an IEM that already has good upper treble. So the E8 is a little linear and smoother in the upper treble, whereas, the Leo is slightly brighter and airier. Because of their very neutralish notes in the midrange, these are not the cables that are meant for restoring tone and fullness in the midrange, unless you are coming from an SPC cable, in which case these cables would sound slightly fuller, warmer and overall better. 

The main difference between the Leo and E8, lies in the technical proficiency, where the Leo is a step above the E8. Leo’s resolution, articulation, transparency, depth, layering and imaging precision are a tiny bit better than E8. 

But don’t let the difference in technicality dictate your decision. For example, with my LCD i4, E8 is a better match than the Leo, as the Leo starts to exaggerate the upper treble, pushing the sound into sterile territory.


----------



## Bosk

EagleWings said:


> Both cables are more similar than different. Both present a very uncolored sound with good sub-bass. Leo’s bass impact is a touch stronger and has better treble extension. Leo’s upper treble can become a touch prominent when pairing with an IEM that already has good upper treble. So the E8 is a little linear and smoother in the upper treble, whereas, the Leo is slightly brighter and airier. Because of their very neutralish notes in the midrange, these are not the cables that are meant for restoring tone and fullness in the midrange, unless you are coming from an SPC cable, in which case these cables would sound slightly fuller, warmer and overall better.
> 
> The main difference between the Leo and E8, lies in the technical proficiency, where the Leo is a step above the E8. Leo’s resolution, articulation, transparency, depth, layering and imaging precision are a tiny bit better than E8.
> 
> But don’t let the difference in technicality dictate your decision. For example, with my LCD i4, E8 is a better match than the Leo, as the Leo starts to exaggerate the upper treble, pushing the sound into sterile territory.


Thanks for your impressions EagleWings, I'll certainly heed your advice that synergy between the IEM and cable is of paramount importance.

Its difficult to understand how adding gold which is less conductive than silver, to a silver cable can result in a more articulate presentation than silver alone as in the case of the Thor vs Leonidas for instance, but cable acoustics aren't an exact science.


----------



## Deezel177

Bosk said:


> Thanks for your impressions EagleWings, I'll certainly heed your advice that synergy between the IEM and cable is of paramount importance.
> 
> Its difficult to understand how adding gold which is less conductive than silver, to a silver cable can result in a more articulate presentation than silver alone as in the case of the Thor vs Leonidas for instance, but cable acoustics aren't an exact science.



Exactly. Who’s to say conductivity plays into articulation or detail at all?


----------



## natemact

Deezel177 said:


> Exactly. Who’s to say conductivity plays into articulation or detail at all?


Exactly. Construction over conductor is what I've been told by a couple who live in the inner circle of cablecraft


----------



## pithyginger63

What's a cable that does the following:
1. smooths treble and decreases it slightly but still maintaining air
2. makes mids a little leaner
3. tightens low end
Thanks!


----------



## audio123 (Jul 5, 2018)

pithyginger63 said:


> What's a cable that does the following:
> 1. smooths treble and decreases it slightly but still maintaining air
> 2. makes mids a little leaner
> 3. tightens low end
> Thanks!


You can try Han Sound Zen! 
If you want extra energy, go for Han Sound Aegis.


----------



## ctaxxxx

SeeSax said:


> I personally find that for around 15 bucks, you really can't beat the Pelican cases available on Amazon. If I am storing an IEM with a large, stiff 8-wire cable then it comes into a Pelican 1020. With smaller, more ergonomic 8-wire cable, the 1010.



I might do the Pelican case (non-clear version for extra protection) if I do get an 8-wire for my Hyla. It's a bit too bulky though to fit in the front pocket of my backpack. I found a Shozy aluminum case on Penon, which was exactly what I was looking for, but the price + overseas shipping is a bit much...


----------



## tim0chan

ctaxxxx said:


> I might do the Pelican case (non-clear version for extra protection) if I do get an 8-wire for my Hyla. It's a bit too bulky though to fit in the front pocket of my backpack. I found a Shozy aluminum case on Penon, which was exactly what I was looking for, but the price + overseas shipping is a bit much...


Browse around AliExpress, u can find quite a few of similar size


----------



## robertjwarren

audio123 said:


> You can try Han Sound Zen!
> If you want extra energy, go for Han Sound Aegis.


Sounds like what you need is a tone control instead of a cable


----------



## pithyginger63

robertjwarren said:


> Sounds like what you need is a tone control instead of a cable


pretty much, switching my apex module should do more, but I'm "lazy"


----------



## EagleWings (Jul 5, 2018)

pithyginger63 said:


> What's a cable that does the following:
> 1. smooths treble and decreases it slightly but still maintaining air
> 2. makes mids a little leaner
> 3. tightens low end
> Thanks!



- It will depend on what cable you are coming from.
- There are plenty of cables that can do 2 and 3 together. For example Norne Therium, EA Leonidas. But cables that do 2,3 and also 1 are quite rare I think. I haven't come across any.
- Eros 8W comes close to what you might want. But the treble is not going to be complete smooth like a PWAudio No5 or 1960 2W cable and the mids are not necessarily lean, but neutralish.


----------



## surfratt

Which sub 1k cable do you think has best synergy with Phantoms?  Source, as of now, would be DX200. Have AMP3 & AMP5. Soon to have AMP8 and maybe AMP7.


----------



## kubig123

surfratt said:


> Which sub 1k cable do you think has best synergy with Phantoms?  Source, as of now, would be DX200. Have AMP3 & AMP5. Soon to have AMP8 and maybe AMP7.


I really like the EE Leonidas and the Beat Audio Prima Donna.


----------



## natemact

surfratt said:


> Which sub 1k cable do you think has best synergy with Phantoms?  Source, as of now, would be DX200. Have AMP3 & AMP5. Soon to have AMP8 and maybe AMP7.


Go back about a week in the EE thread. Hard not to give the Ares II 8-wire a shot after that.


----------



## olddude

I have it on my Zeus, glorious.


----------



## Dan E (Jul 11, 2018)

Hi all,

Maybe a weird review to post here, but I just released my full-length review of the Empire Ears Phantom. The text and pics can be found here.

The reason why I decided to advertise the review in the cable thread is that the review bases a large part of its analysis on how cable pairings can contribute substantially to the sound of the Phantom. I hope you enjoy the read!

Cheers,
Dan


----------



## pithyginger63

I don't have anything with a 4.4mm out. If I get a cable, should I get it terminated with 4.4mm and adapt it to 3.5 single ended or should I just get 3.5 se? I'm wondering how widespread 4.4mm will be in the near future especially in mid-tier gear


----------



## twister6

pithyginger63 said:


> I don't have anything with a 4.4mm out. If I get a cable, should I get it terminated with 4.4mm and adapt it to 3.5 single ended or should I just get 3.5 se? I'm wondering how widespread 4.4mm will be in the near future especially in mid-tier gear



In your case, get a cable terminated 2.5mm TRRS balanced, and get 3.5mm and 4.4mm adapters.


----------



## pithyginger63

twister6 said:


> In your case, get a cable terminated 2.5mm TRRS balanced, and get 3.5mm and 4.4mm adapters.


I'm guessing more versatility? is there change or degradation in sq tho? I've heard somewhere that 2.5mm jacks may induce crosstalk. might be some myth that I subscribe to


----------



## jasonho (Jul 9, 2018)

pithyginger63 said:


> I'm guessing more versatility? is there change or degradation in sq tho? I've heard somewhere that 2.5mm jacks may induce crosstalk. might be some myth that I subscribe to



Honestly, dont believe in myth, start believing in your own ears lol.   imo, I am sure there will be some difference , not sure about degrading of SQ,  i think unless you A/B and switch so frequently, i doubt 99.999 of the folks here can figure or care less about the 0.01% difference.  again ymmv


----------



## twister6

pithyginger63 said:


> I'm guessing more versatility? is there change or degradation in sq tho? I've heard somewhere that 2.5mm jacks may induce crosstalk. might be some myth that I subscribe to



Versality, yes, considering you are still trying to figure out your sources.  Degradation or change in sound quality?  I experienced that myself with some cheap adapters that use low quality connectors and cheap solder, all of which can affect the impedance.  Regarding balanced inducing the crosstalk?, I think you mixed it up with something else.  Balanced design of the source (it comes from the source design, not the jack), if designed properly, is usually done to separate Left/Right channels, to improve SNR, to lower noise floor, to increase output power.  They don't use a common ground, keeping them more isolated, so there is less crosstalk.


----------



## pithyginger63

twister6 said:


> Regarding balanced inducing the crosstalk?


ah, I think rather than balanced being the problem, someone somewhere said smaller connectors are more likely to induce crosstalk. I have no idea if any of it is true


----------



## Decreate

Earlier today I got a message from the distributor here in HK saying that my Janus D had arrived. Got really excited and rushed right over. However once I got there and opened the box, I found that it arrived with a 2.5mm balanced plug and a piggy tail cable to convert it to 4.4mm. I told them that I had specifically ordered one with a 4.4mm plug but was informed that all Janus cables came with 2.5mm plugs and a piggy tail cable to convert to whatever termination that was requested. Wasn't really happy with that but I thought if I was happy with the cable I could learn to live with the piggy tail. Unfortunately once I plugged everything in I found there was no sound coming out of my left ear piece. I fidgeted around with the 2.5mm connector of the piggy tail and found the sound to cut in and out of the left ear piece. Really wished that the cable was terminated with a 4.4mm plug, now I have to wait for it to be sent back to EA to get fixed....


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 19, 2018)

Edit: Nevermind


----------



## flinkenick

Some brief impressions of the Crystal Cable Duet, an $800 silver-gold alloy cable. 


 

The Duet offers a relatively neutral tonality, resulting from a slightly laid-back bass with a linear treble. With a bassier monitor like the Phantom it controls the warm air and provides an airier stage, but with a neutral monitor like Zeus the bass can feel a bit anaemic. Even so, it provides a clear sound without sounding bright; it's not a neutral-bright type of sound from a lifted treble, but more of a 'flat' neutral that doesn't seem to add color to the sound, which can be either good or bad depending on preference. In addition, it offers a highly resolved sound with good transparency - I would say, punching slightly above its price range. Its stage however, is a bit smaller than average. As a result, the Duet provides a highly focused sound in terms of staging, although it is not particularly spacious - the quality of air is high, but it doesn't convey a great sense of air between the instruments. As a result, detail is presented in an upfront manner due to its resolved and clear sound, but the separation could be a bit more effortless.


----------



## Deezel177

flinkenick said:


> Some brief impressions of the Crystal Cable Duet, an $800 silver-gold alloy cable.
> 
> 
> 
> The Duet offers a relatively neutral tonality, resulting from a slightly laid-back bass with a linear treble. With a bassier monitor like the Phantom it controls the warm air and provides an airier stage, but with a neutral monitor like Zeus the bass can feel a bit anaemic. Even so, it provides a clear sound without sounding bright; it's not a neutral-bright type of sound from a lifted treble, but more of a 'flat' neutral that doesn't seem to add color to the sound, which can be either good or bad depending on preference. In addition, it offers a highly resolved sound with good transparency - I would say, punching slightly above its price range. Its stage however, is a bit smaller than average. As a result, the Duet provides a highly focused sound in terms of staging, although it is not particularly spacious - the quality of air is high, but it doesn't convey a great sense of air between the instruments. As a result, detail is presented in an upfront manner due to its resolved and clear sound, but the separation could be a bit more effortless.



Sounds like it could be an absolute monster in an 8-wire braid.


----------



## cathee

Hi guys - 

New to the cable world and looking for some pointers: I'm currently trying to go 4.4mm with my TH900s and DX150 (+ AMP8). 

The only pair of cables I've bought are a $50 pair from Amazon when my old cables died on me so I have zero experience. *Where to even start? *

I've browsed Moon-Audio, Plussound, Double Helix etc... And after all the reading I feel none the wiser...

Any information or pointers as to where to read up a bit more about the topic will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Deezel177

cathee said:


> Hi guys -
> 
> New to the cable world and looking for some pointers: I'm currently trying to go 4.4mm with my TH900s and DX150 (+ AMP8).
> 
> ...



If you could tell us what kind of changes or refinements you’d like to make to the headphones, we can give you some general recommendations.


----------



## paolo63

cathee said:


> Hi guys -
> 
> New to the cable world and looking for some pointers: I'm currently trying to go 4.4mm with my TH900s and DX150 (+ AMP8).
> 
> ...




Hi Cathee,

Have a look here www.lqicables.com


----------



## cathee

Deezel177 said:


> If you could tell us what kind of changes or refinements you’d like to make to the headphones, we can give you some general recommendations.





paolo63 said:


> Hi Cathee,
> 
> Have a look here www.lqicables.com



Thanks for the quick response guys...

To be honest, I'm not sure. I very much enjoy the TH900s as they are. My only complaint might be that the mids (upper mids in particular) can seem a bit lacking at times. Really I'm just looking for some decent balanced cables with 4.4mm termination. The only thing I know (from previous experience with IEMs) is that going from copper blend to pure silver cables gave me a "sterile"/"clinical" sound that I did not really appreciate. 

Thanks.


----------



## natemact

flinkenick said:


> Some brief impressions of the Crystal Cable Duet, an $800 silver-gold alloy cable.
> 
> 
> 
> The Duet offers a relatively neutral tonality, resulting from a slightly laid-back bass with a linear treble. With a bassier monitor like the Phantom it controls the warm air and provides an airier stage, but with a neutral monitor like Zeus the bass can feel a bit anaemic. Even so, it provides a clear sound without sounding bright; it's not a neutral-bright type of sound from a lifted treble, but more of a 'flat' neutral that doesn't seem to add color to the sound, which can be either good or bad depending on preference. In addition, it offers a highly resolved sound with good transparency - I would say, punching slightly above its price range. Its stage however, is a bit smaller than average. As a result, the Duet provides a highly focused sound in terms of staging, although it is not particularly spacious - the quality of air is high, but it doesn't convey a great sense of air between the instruments. As a result, detail is presented in an upfront manner due to its resolved and clear sound, but the separation could be a bit more effortless.


Nice to see ya back and nice to see the one and only 2ch cable company I know of making iem cables represented here. Hopefully similarly to the big hitters getting into hp cables the same will soon happen with iems due to the increasing popularity. I know Kimber Axios was under the assumption that their cables would be too thick and heavy for iem use. Nathan will make one if requested though. With the popularity of 8 wire increasing (well at a fishbowl kinda rate) hopefully Kimber will soon realize the market is starting to accept such thackness. 

I used two Crystal Cable Piccolo Diamond interconnects in my system TT>SUT>phonostage and really liked them, although in the end I found them to be slightly too diffuse in SS cohesion as well polite with the most dynamically charged passages, but the pros definitely outweighed the cons. 

Clearly way OT but how cool are their Arabesque Minissimo speakers! C'mon : )


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 11, 2018)

cathee said:


> Thanks for the quick response guys...
> 
> To be honest, I'm not sure. I very much enjoy the TH900s as they are. My only complaint might be that the mids (upper mids in particular) can seem a bit lacking at times. Really I'm just looking for some decent balanced cables with 4.4mm termination. The only thing I know (from previous experience with IEMs) is that going from copper blend to pure silver cables gave me a "sterile"/"clinical" sound that I did not really appreciate.
> 
> Thanks.



Your options are pretty limited since the TH-900 mk2 uses unique connectors that look like HD6XX connectors, but are actually slightly different. I think reversed polarity and shallower depth.

When I had them, the only makers that supported them were Moon Audio and LQi cables. I went with Moon Audio's Black Dragon, and found their connectors fairly loose fitting. I ended up returning those and buying the Fostex XLR cable and used an adapter for 2.5mm. (I mainly needed XLR at the time)


----------



## cathee

ctaxxxx said:


> Your options are pretty limited since the TH-900 mk2 uses unique connectors that look like HD6XX connectors, but are actually slightly different. I think reversed polarity and shallower depth.
> 
> When I had them, the only makers that supported them were Moon Audio and LQi cables. I went with Moon Audio's Black Dragon, and found their connectors fairly loose fitting. I ended up returning those and buying the Fostex XLR cable and used an adapter for 2.5mm. (I mainly needed XLR at the time)



Sorry I should've been more clear - I have a TH900 MK1 modded by Peterek to 2.5mm mono plugs, which should be the same as Oppo PM series and the Senn HD700s? My main nominees right now the Moon Audio Black/Blue/Whatever Dragons or Plussound (the tri-copper looks brilliant but are definitely on the higher end of my budget).


----------



## LCeh

Does anyone have any impressions or experience with the Beat Audio Billow 8 wire version?


----------



## pithyginger63

LCeh said:


> Does anyone have any impressions or experience with the Beat Audio Billow 8 wire version?


I believe @Barra might


----------



## rtjoa

LCeh said:


> Does anyone have any impressions or experience with the Beat Audio Billow 8 wire version?


Hope this helps (in Chinese):
https://headfidy.com/forum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=102861


----------



## LCeh

Thanks. I am just a little surprised it's not talked about more often here, as I find it to be a special cable, especially its mids.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jul 14, 2018)

Anyone know anything about the (GPC) Penon GD849? I didn't realize they released new cables.

Edit: Now I see they have a pure silver cable up - Penon Leo. These must be brands new.


----------



## Barra

pithyginger63 said:


> I believe @Barra might


Sorry, I don't. I wasn't part of my tour.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Barra said:


> Sorry, I don't. I wasn't part of my tour.



lol. What a travesty!


----------



## rtjoa

LCeh said:


> Thanks. I am just a little surprised it's not talked about more often here, as I find it to be a special cable, especially its mids.


Yes Beat Audio is not talked often outside Asia. Here is another review in Thai https://forum.munkonggadget.com/detail.php?id=219511

I would like to listen to Billow and Archelois. I have Prima Donna from a headfier member. It is a good cable but it took me a while to find matched IEM. There is a member here from USA who has 2 Virginia cables but he has sold one.

If you are interested with Billow, it may be good to try Brimar Omni King and Ultimate. I have ordered both Brimar. I went to Can Jam Singapore for first time to test cables but unfortunately Beat Audio was not there.


----------



## LCeh

rtjoa said:


> Yes Beat Audio is not talked often outside Asia. Here is another review in Thai https://forum.munkonggadget.com/detail.php?id=219511
> 
> I would like to listen to Billow and Archelois. I have Prima Donna from a headfier member. It is a good cable but it took me a while to find matched IEM. There is a member here from USA who has 2 Virginia cables but he has sold one.
> 
> If you are interested with Billow, it may be good to try Brimar Omni King and Ultimate. I have ordered both Brimar. I went to Can Jam Singapore for first time to test cables but unfortunately Beat Audio was not there.



I have actually liked Brimar's cables quite a lot.They are actually based in Hk so I actually went to their shop to audition. I tried their reference supreme 4 wire and was quite good. I find their sound signature and billow to be a little similar, but it's harder to find a second hand brimar cable.


----------



## aaf evo

Does anyone have any recommendations for a case that'll fit my CIEM LX and the Janus D nicely? The 8 wire is so thick it doesn't fit in my old case very well anymore.

TIA.


----------



## rtjoa

Upcoming Brimar adapters (from top to bottom):
1. 2.5mm to 3.5mm with Brimar Kaiser 8 wire
2. 4.4mm to 2.5mm with Brimar Ultimate 10 wire and Pentaconn female
3. Interconnect cable with Brimar Ultimate 8 wire and Pentaconn 4.4mm OFC connector


----------



## SeeSax

Decreate said:


> Earlier today I got a message from the distributor here in HK saying that my Janus D had arrived. Got really excited and rushed right over. However once I got there and opened the box, I found that it arrived with a 2.5mm balanced plug and a piggy tail cable to convert it to 4.4mm. I told them that I had specifically ordered one with a 4.4mm plug but was informed that all Janus cables came with 2.5mm plugs and a piggy tail cable to convert to whatever termination that was requested. Wasn't really happy with that but I thought if I was happy with the cable I could learn to live with the piggy tail. Unfortunately once I plugged everything in I found there was no sound coming out of my left ear piece. I fidgeted around with the 2.5mm connector of the piggy tail and found the sound to cut in and out of the left ear piece. Really wished that the cable was terminated with a 4.4mm plug, now I have to wait for it to be sent back to EA to get fixed....



This is sad to read - sorry for what you have to go through, especially given the cost of that cable. I was just chatting this morning with the guys from MusicTeck asking if they had any EA cables NATIVELY terminated in 4.4mm and they said no. Maybe a question for the EA thread, but it seems like EA is slow to adopt the 4.4mm standard as 2.5mm is still pretty dominant in most parts of Asia? I am in the long, slow, painful process of converting all of my sources/cables to 4.4mm and am hoping for an adapter-free life soon....I see the light at the end of the tunnel 

-Collin-


----------



## flinkenick

SeeSax said:


> This is sad to read - sorry for what you have to go through, especially given the cost of that cable. I was just chatting this morning with the guys from MusicTeck asking if they had any EA cables NATIVELY terminated in 4.4mm and they said no. Maybe a question for the EA thread, but it seems like EA is slow to adopt the 4.4mm standard as 2.5mm is still pretty dominant in most parts of Asia? I am in the long, slow, painful process of converting all of my sources/cables to 4.4mm and am hoping for an adapter-free life soon....I see the light at the end of the tunnel
> 
> -Collin-


The primary reason that EA sends 2.5mm cables to their dealers and brings them along to shows, is because it is easier to go from 2.5 to 4.4 and 3.5, than from 4.4 the other way around. So instead of having to offer cables in different terminations to test, they just do 2.5 with adapters.

For this same reason I am also being forced to choose 2.5 at the moment. I use my A&K most of the time, but also have a WM1Z, and might contemplate one of the new 4.4 daps in the future (N8, LPGT, R2R2000). To fully go 4.4 means abandoning A&K, which I just don't see myself doing. So to alternate between 2.5 and 4.4, it is still easier to pick 2.5. The only way that we will be adapter free, is if companies start ripping off the DITA awesome plug. I mean, I love the DITA guys, but seriously, why hasn't every cable company jumped on this by now.

That being said, I don't know what the logic is behind only offering 2.5 with an adapter for Janus. @Decreate, I also feel for you buddy, although I was aware they were only going to offer it like that. Probably Eric mentioned it at CJ NY. But it still sucks when it is delivered defective. Couldn't the store just give you a new one, would assume they have a couple on hand? Especially if just the pigtail is defective.


----------



## SeeSax

flinkenick said:


> The primary reason that EA sends 2.5mm cables to their dealers and brings them along to shows, is because it is easier to go from 2.5 to 4.4 and 3.5, than from 4.4 the other way around. So instead of having to offer cables in different terminations to test, they just do 2.5 with adapters.
> 
> For this same reason I am also being forced to choose 2.5 at the moment. I use my A&K most of the time, but also have a WM1Z, and might contemplate one of the new 4.4 daps in the future (N8, LPGT, R2R2000). To fully go 4.4 means abandoning A&K, which I just don't see myself doing. So to alternate between 2.5 and 4.4, it is still easier to pick 2.5. The only way that we will be adapter free, is if companies start ripping off the DITA awesome plug. I mean, I love the DITA guys, but seriously, why hasn't every cable company jumped on this by now.
> 
> That being said, I don't know what the logic is behind only offering 2.5 with an adapter for Janus. @Decreate, I also feel for you buddy, although I was aware they were only going to offer it like that. Probably Eric mentioned it at CJ NY. But it still sucks when it is delivered defective. Couldn't the store just give you a new one, would assume they have a couple on hand? Especially if just the pigtail is defective.



Nic your post is spot on. It is also causing me to question my decision to abandon 2.5mm.........

Ugh. This stuff keeps me up at night! Oh, and add to the fact that I love to buy second-hand cables from the classifieds and I think there are at least eight 2.5mm cables for every one 4.4mm (which usually get snapped up quickly). 

What have I done. 

-Collin-

P.S. This feels like when Apple took away my headphone jack


----------



## flinkenick

SeeSax said:


> Nic your post is spot on. It is also causing me to question my decision to abandon 2.5mm.........
> 
> Ugh. This stuff keeps me up at night! Oh, and add to the fact that I love to buy second-hand cables from the classifieds and I think there are at least eight 2.5mm cables for every one 4.4mm (which usually get snapped up quickly).
> 
> ...


Trust me, you are not alone my friend. When I got a pre-production version of Horus (they were still working on the rose-gold splitter), Eric automatically sent it in 2.5mm. Since I primarily used the SE on my AK380cu (and wanted to be 'adapter-free') I asked for 3.5mm for the final version. Then I decided to go full WM1Z after it was modded, so I had it re-terminated to 4.4. Which sucked when I got the SP1000. So, had it re-terminated again to 2.5mm 

But honestly, with all the new 4.4 daps coming out you could make a conscious decision to stick with that. Fingers crossed that at least one of those three sounds half decent


----------



## SeeSax

Wow, sounds like you definitely have experience with this pain point @flinkenick! While I do not have a 1Z, most of my listening is actually done at my desk so I decided on the whatever-the-heck-its-called Sony DAC/amp. I think the TA-ZH1ES? The native 4.4mm plug on that sold me and it sounds wonderful, hopefully similar to the 1Z. I do see a lot of DAPs coming out this year in 4.4mm and my DX200 with the Amp8 is probably going to be my only one for a while. 

-Collin-


----------



## Decreate

flinkenick said:


> The primary reason that EA sends 2.5mm cables to their dealers and brings them along to shows, is because it is easier to go from 2.5 to 4.4 and 3.5, than from 4.4 the other way around. So instead of having to offer cables in different terminations to test, they just do 2.5 with adapters.
> 
> For this same reason I am also being forced to choose 2.5 at the moment. I use my A&K most of the time, but also have a WM1Z, and might contemplate one of the new 4.4 daps in the future (N8, LPGT, R2R2000). To fully go 4.4 means abandoning A&K, which I just don't see myself doing. So to alternate between 2.5 and 4.4, it is still easier to pick 2.5. The only way that we will be adapter free, is if companies start ripping off the DITA awesome plug. I mean, I love the DITA guys, but seriously, why hasn't every cable company jumped on this by now.
> 
> That being said, I don't know what the logic is behind only offering 2.5 with an adapter for Janus. @Decreate, I also feel for you buddy, although I was aware they were only going to offer it like that. Probably Eric mentioned it at CJ NY. But it still sucks when it is delivered defective. Couldn't the store just give you a new one, would assume they have a couple on hand? Especially if just the pigtail is defective.


Unfortunately this option was never offered to me and at the time I assumed that it was because there were no spares even though I was at the office of the distributor here in Hong Kong. However a few days ago I walked past a earphone shop and saw that the Janus cable was available there. This shop gets all their EA cables from the distributor so I really don't know what to think now...Just hope that I can get the cable fixed and returned to me soon.


----------



## Decreate

SeeSax said:


> This is sad to read - sorry for what you have to go through, especially given the cost of that cable. I was just chatting this morning with the guys from MusicTeck asking if they had any EA cables NATIVELY terminated in 4.4mm and they said no. Maybe a question for the EA thread, but it seems like EA is slow to adopt the 4.4mm standard as 2.5mm is still pretty dominant in most parts of Asia? I am in the long, slow, painful process of converting all of my sources/cables to 4.4mm and am hoping for an adapter-free life soon....I see the light at the end of the tunnel
> 
> -Collin-


I guess it really depends on the music that one listens to. Here in Hong Kong a lot of the people I see in the earphone shops seem to prefer the AK players as they prefer how it performs with vocal based music like canto-pop. However as I mainly listen to rock / metal, I found the Sony to sound more to my liking.


----------



## koven

Got the Han Sound Cable tour w/ me this week... these are fantastic cables, I think they're a relatively new builder and not too many people have their cables but hopefully they become more popular. This one is the Aurora.. my favorite of their lineup.


----------



## SeeSax

@koven that is a beautiful cable! How many did you receive in the tour? Would love to check out one or two, and I'll get you a nicer cup of coffee than Starbucks this time... 

-Collin-


----------



## muffin9988

SeeSax said:


> Nic your post is spot on. It is also causing me to question my decision to abandon 2.5mm.........
> 
> Ugh. This stuff keeps me up at night! Oh, and add to the fact that I love to buy second-hand cables from the classifieds and I think there are at least eight 2.5mm cables for every one 4.4mm (which usually get snapped up quickly).
> 
> ...



I'm also in the migrating to fully 4.4mm camp and one thing that helps me sleep at night is I'm sure it's a matter of time until the 4.4mm female adapter game catches up - I'm banking on the hunch that Furutech or Eidolic or the likes will make a high quality and good looking 4.4mm female jack sooner or later as 4.4 ramps up in popularity


----------



## koven

SeeSax said:


> @koven that is a beautiful cable! How many did you receive in the tour? Would love to check out one or two, and I'll get you a nicer cup of coffee than Starbucks this time...
> 
> -Collin-



Sent you a PM..


----------



## ayang02

I just saw the news over at Toxic Cables, very sad news but Frank has passed away.


----------



## jasonho

ayang02 said:


> I just saw the news over at Toxic Cables, very sad news but Frank has passed away.



what?!?  Frank passed away?!?


----------



## ayang02

jasonho said:


> what?!?  Frank passed away?!?


This is the original message on facebook:

This is Max

Unfortunately I have some bad news as you knows Franks dad was unwell and passed away recently and on receiving the news Frank had a stroke which he did not survive.

We will all miss him greatly 

Unfortunately there are a lot of pending orders which cannot be completed at this time as I will be away now till early next year when Toxic Cables will continue business as I did make most of the cables myself so you can expect the same quality.

In the meantime as we are unable to access paypal to refund everyone can you please open as case to get your money back if you have not received your order and paypal will refund you as orders not shipped did not have tracking added to paypal.

Everyone's funds will be still in the account as I know Frank only removed funds for cables that were completed.

If you have any questions please message here and I will reply at earliest convenience.

I don't have password to email currently so don't email.

Thank you

https://www.facebook.com/171820399625727/posts/1129227123885045/


----------



## Overkill Red

Extremely tragic.. RIP Frank and father.


----------



## pithyginger63

that is a massive shock... rest in peace


----------



## Deezel177

This is extremely upsetting news to hear. Prayers and love to his family and friends.


----------



## Deezel177

muffin9988 said:


> I'm also in the migrating to fully 4.4mm camp and one thing that helps me sleep at night is I'm sure it's a matter of time until the 4.4mm female adapter game catches up - I'm banking on the hunch that Furutech or Eidolic or the likes will make a high quality and good looking 4.4mm female jack sooner or later as 4.4 ramps up in popularity



I purchased a a 4.4mm-to-3.5mm adapter from Music Sanctuary and this is what came in:

 

I don't know what this 4.4mm female jack is specifically, but it may be exactly what you're looking for.


----------



## pithyginger63

Deezel177 said:


> I purchased a a 4.4mm-to-3.5mm adapter from Music Sanctuary and this is what came in:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what this 4.4mm female jack is specifically, but it may be exactly what you're looking for.


what's this tarp/cloth I'm seeing in your photos? looks great


----------



## San Man (Jul 18, 2018)

SeeSax said:


> This is sad to read - sorry for what you have to go through, especially given the cost of that cable. I was just chatting this morning with the guys from MusicTeck asking if they had any EA cables NATIVELY terminated in 4.4mm and they said no. Maybe a question for the EA thread, but it seems like EA is slow to adopt the 4.4mm standard as 2.5mm is still pretty dominant in most parts of Asia? I am in the long, slow, painful process of converting all of my sources/cables to 4.4mm and am hoping for an adapter-free life soon....I see the light at the end of the tunnel
> 
> -Collin-



You just have to ask


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> what's this tarp/cloth I'm seeing in your photos? looks great



That's a jacket I wore to church last night.


----------



## flinkenick (Jul 18, 2018)

This is really heartbreaking news, especially the circumstances around it. We all have a few special brands in our heart, the ones that really sparked a flame when we started out. For me that was the EarSonics Velvet, the iem I liked so much it got me hooked on Head-Fi (unfortunately), and the Toxic Cables Silver Widow, which ignited the cable virus. Even when I couldn't hear differences very well, I felt that the Silver Widow upgraded my whole system (even though my source was an ipod lol). Back then, paying more than $300 for a cable was absurd to me. But Frank's cables felt they had an x-value, and I think he was crushing the competition in that segment. In fact, I think the price/performance of his cables helped increase the popularity of iem cables in general.

A year ago during the shootout I came in contact with Frank when he stumbled on the cable thread, and we had a chat about a wide range of topics. Due to his popularity, he was regularly under attack by his competitors. But he also wouldn't take crap from anybody, and wasn't afraid to speak out. He was never keen on reviews because he felt they were too glossy, but he appreciated the honest and to the point blurbs at the begin of the thread, so he asked me to review the Silver Widows. I was kinda under pressure for the shootout reviews, but it felt wholesome to come back to the point I started at again, and to hear that one of the people you respect so much appreciated your approach. I don't want to make this about me, but it speaks to how Frank appreciated honesty and directness. In the end I'm glad I got to speak and work with him for a bit, he was a unique character.

R.I.P. Frank, you built up something special.


----------



## ayang02

flinkenick said:


> This is really heartbreaking news, especially the circumstances around it. We all have a few special brands in our heart, the ones that really sparked a flame when we started out. For me that was the EarSonics Velvet, the iem I liked so much it got me hooked on Head-Fi (unfortunately), and the Toxic Cables Silver Widow, which ignited the cable virus. Even when I couldn't hear differences very well, I felt that the Silver Widow upgraded my whole system (even though my source was an ipod lol). Back then, paying more than $300 for a cable was absurd to me. But Frank's cables felt they had an x-value, and I think he was crushing the competition in that segment. In fact, I think the price/performance of his cables helped increase the popularity of iem cables in general.
> 
> A year ago during the shootout I came in contact with Frank when he stumbled on the cable thread, and we had a chat about a wide range of topics. He was never keen on reviews because he felt they were too glossy, but he appreciated the honest and to the point blurbs at the begin of the thread, so he asked me to review the Silver Widows. I was kinda under pressure for the shootout reviews, but it felt wholesome to come back to the point I started at again, and to hear that one of the people you respect so much appreciated your approach. I don't want to make this about me, but it speaks to how Frank appreciated honesty and directness. In the end I'm glad I got to speak and work with him for a bit, he was a unique character.
> 
> R.I.P. Frank, you built up something special.



My first real IEM upgrade cable is also the Silver Widow, which I just recently sent to HanSound Audio to let them do some retermination work since I know how busy Frank & Max were...

I was really looking forward to getting the Black Widow 22 V2 but that's not happening anytime soon. Such a sad day, may he R.I.P.


----------



## LCeh

So I ended up getting this beautiful Beat Audio Billow 8-wire, the build quality is top notch, more impressions to come later, but here is a photo first


----------



## jasonho

RIP frank!


----------



## tim0chan

jasonho said:


> RIP frank!


he will be sorely missed


----------



## Kerouac

Oh man....so sorry (and shocked at the same time) to read that Frank has passed away 

I remember some years ago I asked him why he always replied on my pm's so late in the nightime / early in the morning. He said that he usually worked on his cables and answering pm's during the nighttime, so he would at least still have some quality daytime left for his young son / family.
So, it seemed like he almost never rested and always tried to keep his backlog as short as possible, while giving his customers as much personal attention as possible as well. He certainly put his heart and soul for 100% into his beautiful and hq cables.

RIP!


----------



## ctsooner22

RIP.  Such as sad story. Makes you appreciate what you have.


----------



## rtjoa

RIP Frank


----------



## weewelly

Does anyone know why OC studio is not accepting payments?  Has this been going on for a while?  Any other places to buy other than their website?


----------



## pithyginger63

weewelly said:


> Does anyone know why OC studio is not accepting payments?  Has this been going on for a while?  Any other places to buy other than their website?


I think you can try ruten
https://m.ruten.com.tw/goods/show.php?g=21711517462401


----------



## SeeSax

Hello cable enthusiasts, thought I would share a photo of a cable I have incoming from David over at Triton Audio Cables. This is a new version of the Triton8 which is still a copper/silver hybrid design, but has upgraded OCC copper wires and a box braid design which looks very elegant. It is finished in PlusSound 2-pin connectors and 4.4mm jack. I can't wait to receive it and judging by the photo, it will be an outstanding cable in use. I tested a similar version and found it to be great - high resolution, neutral sound signature with a hint of warmth and sparkly treble. There's nothing not to like here, especially for the price. 

 

Will happily report back once I've had some time with it! Thanks again @alpha421 

-Collin-


----------



## audiojr

weewelly said:


> Does anyone know why OC studio is not accepting payments?  Has this been going on for a while?  Any other places to buy other than their website?



Do try to contact them via Facebook messenger, they are very responsive. They take orders from there as well.


----------



## rtjoa

LCeh said:


> So I ended up getting this beautiful Beat Audio Billow 8-wire, the build quality is top notch, more impressions to come later, but here is a photo first


Very nice cable. Can you please tell me how much is that cable?

I have seen several used Billow cables on DCFever website . There are many interesting used items on that website. I have tried to buy iBasso AMP4 but seller cancelled.


----------



## LCeh

rtjoa said:


> Very nice cable. Can you please tell me how much is that cable?
> 
> I have seen several used Billow cables on DCFever website . There are many interesting used items on that website. I have tried to buy iBasso AMP4 but seller cancelled.



This cable goes for USD 2699, here is a link to the website: http://beataudiolab.com/products/billow-beat-audio-premium-upgrade-cable?taxon_id=22

I will send you a pm about dcfever as well.


----------



## rtjoa

I would like to share my upcoming Brimar cables: Omni King 10 wire (left) and Ultimate 10 wire (middle and right) with Pentaconn OFC 4.4.mm

Omni King is a silver gold cable and Ultimate is silver gold with copper gold cable.


----------



## artpiggo

New Series of PW Audio with 2 heads (2.5Balance + 3.5Ground) Design. 1980S. Wow Look at that classy insulator. <3  

It is just 1630 USD.


----------



## edwardsean

I’m looking to reterminate a cable and looking at both eidolic and furutech balanced connectors. On paper it seems to me that furutech would outperform eidolic because they use copper for their conductor instead the brass used by eidolic. As I understand it copper is far more conductive than brass. However, I know that eidolic is also very highly regarded.

Would anyone be able to tell me a little bit about the strengths of weakness of the two designs in terms of their relative sound quality. I am less interest in durability as it seems I regularly reterminate with new standards and new gear. I am especially concerned about soundstage, clarity over warmth and treble extension over bass.


----------



## tim0chan

edwardsean said:


> I’m looking to reterminate a cable and looking at both eidolic and furutech balanced connectors. On paper it seems to me that furutech would outperform eidolic because they use copper for their conductor instead the brass used by eidolic. As I understand it copper is far more conductive than brass. However, I know that eidolic is also very highly regarded.
> 
> Would anyone be able to tell me a little bit about the strengths of weakness of the two designs in terms of their relative sound quality. I am less interest in durability as it seems I regularly reterminate with new standards and new gear. I am especially concerned about soundstage, clarity over warmth and treble extension over bass.


furutech for u, then. has the characteristics you describe. alas, i cannot ocompare direct with eidolic. i can say you cannot go wrong with furutech tho


----------



## artpiggo (Jul 21, 2018)

Somehow I would like to cheer Ranko gold plated plugs. It is cheap yet outperforms its price tag. It is balanced sounding and easily match with most cables.

Eidolic is too warm and smooth out details too much.

Furutech is about impactful and wide soundstage but treble can be too bright. Furutech plug signature is v shape.
It has 2 series
1) generic is more v shape
2) carbon fiber has better mid

But i dont know what is your balanced termination (2.5 or4.4)

My best plug is
- 2.5 is ranko gold
- 3.5 is switchcraft (again, dont get deceived by its price)
- 4.4 is music heaven carbon plug gold plated.

But if you want a little bit detail and treble more than bass, atl rhodium plated is for you.


----------



## honeyjjack

Hi. I have gone cable shopping for my A18t and custom Laylas. For my A18t i was previously using pw audio no5 which sweetened up the highs and gave it more sub bass. I was looking for preferably a silver cable that would bring out the vocals and add more stage width with better extension in highs. I auditioned Labkable titan au, Plusound silver+gold, effect audio horus and thor, dhc elite 19 and symbiote sp v3, pw audio saladin+, loki+, xerxes +, 1960, 1950. From my perspective, The Loki gave it the widest staging followed by elite 19 but loki + gave a slight bump in vocals that refined the sound of the a18t. For my Laylas i am using Brimars Grandmaster which matched very well with the layla's holographic stage and brightened the dark tone. However, i was looking for a something that would have its similar traits but with less sibilance in the +10khz region. I auditioned for my laylas, labkable titan ag, Plussound gps, effect audio horus, mars, dhc elite 19, elite 19 fusion, pw audio xerxes +, 1960, 1950. While none of these cables did the magic the Brimars did, further extending the holographic stage and giving it extraordinary details, Labkable titan Ag fixed the sibilance, giving it a warmer and more relaxed presentation which softened the highs. The horus had the closest presentation to the Brimars , but sounded a bit thin which is not necessary bad. The best out of the cables i tried tho was the elite 19 fusion which matched the Brimars in stage width but didnt seem as holographic. It also had smoother presentation without much sibilance. However the cable it self was way too stiff for me to consider them. Since my laylas are custom, i didnt mind the weight and the thickness but the insulation seemed to hard and stiff for it to be a daily carry. I end up ordering the Loki + for the A18t and decided to wait for a cable to better fit the laylas than my A18ts. I think a effect audio 8 wire bespoke with horus and some other cable for the body or even horus 8 wire might better the Grandmaster. There would be no way to audition such a cable before purchase tho.


----------



## koven

honeyjjack said:


> Hi. I have gone cable shopping for my A18t and custom Laylas. For my A18t i was previously using pw audio no5 which sweetened up the highs and gave it more sub bass. I was looking for preferably a silver cable that would bring out the vocals and add more stage width with better extension in highs. I auditioned Labkable titan au, Plusound silver+gold, effect audio horus and thor, dhc elite 19 and symbiote sp v3, pw audio saladin+, loki+, xerxes +, 1960, 1950. From my perspective, The Loki gave it the widest staging followed by elite 19 but loki + gave a slight bump in vocals that refined the sound of the a18t. For my Laylas i am using Brimars Grandmaster which matched very well with the layla's holographic stage and brightened the dark tone. However, i was looking for a something that would have its similar traits but with less sibilance in the +10khz region. I auditioned for my laylas, labkable titan ag, Plussound gps, effect audio horus, mars, dhc elite 19, elite 19 fusion, pw audio xerxes +, 1960, 1950. While none of these cables did the magic the Brimars did, further extending the holographic stage and giving it extraordinary details, Labkable titan Ag fixed the sibilance, giving it a warmer and more relaxed presentation which softened the highs. The horus had the closest presentation to the Brimars , but sounded a bit thin which is not necessary bad. The best out of the cables i tried tho was the elite 19 fusion which matched the Brimars in stage width but didnt seem as holographic. It also had smoother presentation without much sibilance. However the cable it self was way too stiff for me to consider them. Since my laylas are custom, i didnt mind the weight and the thickness but the insulation seemed to hard and stiff for it to be a daily carry. I end up ordering the Loki + for the A18t and decided to wait for a cable to better fit the laylas than my A18ts. I think a effect audio 8 wire bespoke with horus and some other cable for the body or even horus 8 wire might better the Grandmaster. There would be no way to audition such a cable before purchase tho.



Did you audition at a shop in Seoul? Which one if so?


----------



## honeyjjack

koven said:


> Did you audition at a shop in Seoul? Which one if so?


schezade, gs sound lab, 1910 shop. If you visit these three you can basically try everything. Also zound has brimars.


----------



## ctaxxxx

honeyjjack said:


> Hi. I have gone cable shopping for my A18t and custom Laylas. For my A18t i was previously using pw audio no5 which sweetened up the highs and gave it more sub bass. I was looking for preferably a silver cable that would bring out the vocals and add more stage width with better extension in highs. I auditioned Labkable titan au, Plusound silver+gold, effect audio horus and thor, dhc elite 19 and symbiote sp v3, pw audio saladin+, loki+, xerxes +, 1960, 1950. From my perspective, The Loki gave it the widest staging followed by elite 19 but loki + gave a slight bump in vocals that refined the sound of the a18t. For my Laylas i am using Brimars Grandmaster which matched very well with the layla's holographic stage and brightened the dark tone. However, i was looking for a something that would have its similar traits but with less sibilance in the +10khz region. I auditioned for my laylas, labkable titan ag, Plussound gps, effect audio horus, mars, dhc elite 19, elite 19 fusion, pw audio xerxes +, 1960, 1950. While none of these cables did the magic the Brimars did, further extending the holographic stage and giving it extraordinary details, Labkable titan Ag fixed the sibilance, giving it a warmer and more relaxed presentation which softened the highs. The horus had the closest presentation to the Brimars , but sounded a bit thin which is not necessary bad. The best out of the cables i tried tho was the elite 19 fusion which matched the Brimars in stage width but didnt seem as holographic. It also had smoother presentation without much sibilance. However the cable it self was way too stiff for me to consider them. Since my laylas are custom, i didnt mind the weight and the thickness but the insulation seemed to hard and stiff for it to be a daily carry. I end up ordering the Loki + for the A18t and decided to wait for a cable to better fit the laylas than my A18ts. I think a effect audio 8 wire bespoke with horus and some other cable for the body or even horus 8 wire might better the Grandmaster. There would be no way to audition such a cable before purchase tho.



Any thoughts on the Saladin and Xerxes? Especially, how it improves over the No.5?


----------



## rtjoa

honeyjjack said:


> Hi. I have gone cable shopping for my A18t and custom Laylas. For my A18t i was previously using pw audio no5 which sweetened up the highs and gave it more sub bass. I was looking for preferably a silver cable that would bring out the vocals and add more stage width with better extension in highs. I auditioned Labkable titan au, Plusound silver+gold, effect audio horus and thor, dhc elite 19 and symbiote sp v3, pw audio saladin+, loki+, xerxes +, 1960, 1950. From my perspective, The Loki gave it the widest staging followed by elite 19 but loki + gave a slight bump in vocals that refined the sound of the a18t. For my Laylas i am using Brimars Grandmaster which matched very well with the layla's holographic stage and brightened the dark tone. However, i was looking for a something that would have its similar traits but with less sibilance in the +10khz region. I auditioned for my laylas, labkable titan ag, Plussound gps, effect audio horus, mars, dhc elite 19, elite 19 fusion, pw audio xerxes +, 1960, 1950. While none of these cables did the magic the Brimars did, further extending the holographic stage and giving it extraordinary details, Labkable titan Ag fixed the sibilance, giving it a warmer and more relaxed presentation which softened the highs. The horus had the closest presentation to the Brimars , but sounded a bit thin which is not necessary bad. The best out of the cables i tried tho was the elite 19 fusion which matched the Brimars in stage width but didnt seem as holographic. It also had smoother presentation without much sibilance. However the cable it self was way too stiff for me to consider them. Since my laylas are custom, i didnt mind the weight and the thickness but the insulation seemed to hard and stiff for it to be a daily carry. I end up ordering the Loki + for the A18t and decided to wait for a cable to better fit the laylas than my A18ts. I think a effect audio 8 wire bespoke with horus and some other cable for the body or even horus 8 wire might better the Grandmaster. There would be no way to audition such a cable before purchase tho.


Have you received your Grandmaster back?
If you like Grandmaster for your Layla, you may like Omni King. Both Omni King and Ultimate are latest Brimar cables and Zound may have them. I have Grandmaster for my Layla 2.


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## koven

honeyjjack said:


> schezade, gs sound lab, 1910 shop. If you visit these three you can basically try everything. Also zound has brimars.



Thanks a lot, I'll be in Seoul for a couple days in Sept and plan to stop by. I wonder how their pricing is compared to US. I'm sure I won't be able to resist a purchase or two.


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## honeyjjack

koven said:


> Thanks a lot, I'll be in Seoul for a couple days in Sept and plan to stop by. I wonder how their pricing is compared to US. I'm sure I won't be able to resist a purchase or two.


Because of taxes, they are always more expensive here. But you do get to compare alot more in one shop so if you want to save some cash, you could try things out there and buy online. Let me know if you have a specific brand you want to try and i can let you know which shop carries them.


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## honeyjjack

rtjoa said:


> Have you received your Grandmaster back?
> If you like Grandmaster for your Layla, you may like Omni King. Both Omni King and Ultimate are latest Brimar cables and Zound may have them. I have Grandmaster for my Layla 2.


Yes i got them back the day before i went to these shops (they charged me 250 for adding bass pods tho)  I didnt have enough time to visit Zound this time, but i will sure go try them out next.


----------



## honeyjjack

ctaxxxx said:


> Any thoughts on the Saladin and Xerxes? Especially, how it improves over the No.5?


No.5 has a very strong sub bass, and sweeter highs. Both Saladin and Xerxes were more tonally balanced, being slightly on the darker/ warmer side compared to Loki or other silver cables. To me Saladin lacked resolution or seemed to roll off in the upper regions and gave a more intimate stage. It has a very smooth and natural sound, but doesnt complement the high resolution, sparkly highs, and open soundstage of the A18ts. Xerxes seemed to be in between Loki and Saladin in terms of tonal balance, having a bit more sparkle than Saladin but not as much as Loki. I could see Xerxes matching very well with some iems but not for the ones i carry.


----------



## honeyjjack

rtjoa said:


> Have you received your Grandmaster back?
> If you like Grandmaster for your Layla, you may like Omni King. Both Omni King and Ultimate are latest Brimar cables and Zound may have them. I have Grandmaster for my Layla 2.


Do you know how they differ to the grand master?


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## rtjoa

Sorry, it has been a while and I only spent a short time with omni king at Can Jam with different iem. I was more interested with Ultimate. I bought 1 Omni King and 2 Ultimate last month and they will arrive next week.
Here is a review for Brimar Kaiser with A18t in case if you are interested: http://audio-ph.ru/reviews/obzor-kabelya-brimar-kaiser-vosmizhilnyi-provodnik-v-ligu-hi-end
Are you still looking for an adapter from 2pin to JH connector? I saw your post somewhere and I saw that adapter later. That adapter can be handy to test 2pin cables.


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## Redcarmoose (Jul 23, 2018)

koven said:


> Got the Han Sound Cable tour w/ me this week... these are fantastic cables, I think they're a relatively new builder and not too many people have their cables but hopefully they become more popular. This one is the Aurora.. my favorite of their lineup.



Looking into going upline with them myself.

Pictured:

Han Sound Audio Zen 4 wire OCC litz copper cable terminated Furutech 4.4mm


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## SeeSax

These gorgeous cable photos make Monday that much more tolerable. 

Time to post another of my own. I posted a few days ago about this one I had incoming, but it's now in-hand and pairing beautiful with my UM Mason II. It's the Triton8 OCC hybrid version, with a special braid: 

 

 

Thanks again to Triton Audio Cables for this beautiful cable that is rather cost-effective in comparison to a lot of others, while offering great sound quality of course. My journey of full migration to 4.4mm is almost complete...so close I can taste it!

-Collin-


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## bvng3540

If I was you I wouldn't taste any wires, it not tasty at all, yes I do agree with you on David, he make a very good cables, prices and turnaround is top knot


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## tim0chan

SeeSax said:


> These gorgeous cable photos make Monday that much more tolerable.
> 
> Time to post another of my own. I posted a few days ago about this one I had incoming, but it's now in-hand and pairing beautiful with my UM Mason II. It's the Triton8 OCC hybrid version, with a special braid:
> 
> ...


Impressions of the DAC amp via pm?


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## SeeSax

tim0chan said:


> Impressions of the DAC amp via pm?



Sure! The Sony? I'll PM you.

-Collin-


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## honeyjjack

rtjoa said:


> Sorry, it has been a while and I only spent a short time with omni king at Can Jam with different iem. I was more interested with Ultimate. I bought 1 Omni King and 2 Ultimate last month and they will arrive next week.
> Here is a review for Brimar Kaiser with A18t in case if you are interested: http://audio-ph.ru/reviews/obzor-kabelya-brimar-kaiser-vosmizhilnyi-provodnik-v-ligu-hi-end
> Are you still looking for an adapter from 2pin to JH connector? I saw your post somewhere and I saw that adapter later. That adapter can be handy to test 2pin cables.


Yea i got one made by someone in japan. Used that to try the 2 pin cables at the shops.


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## SeeSax

@tim0chan I tagged you in the PHA-2A thread with some initial, albeit scattered thoughts. 

-Collin-


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## SeeSax

Was chatting with @flinkenick comparing the new Rhapsodio cables and thought I would share my thoughts here (RSD Silver mk3, SG 2.98 mk2 and EA Leonidas/Thor bespoke). I used them on my S-EM9 because I find the subtle cable differences somewhat easy to depict with these IEMs: 

*SG 2.98 compared to RSD Silver mk3*: Immediately noticeable is the warmer mid-bass on the SG 2.98, which gives the S-EM9 a much more musical sound. As Nic has mentioned in the past, the S-EM9 with a traditional silver cable is very technically clean, great for electronic music, but I'm going to mirror those thoughts here and say the SG 2.98 is great for more of a band-based type of music, in my case some country pop stuff (embarrassing as it is, 'Merica). The treble is a bit more relaxed on the SG 2.98 for me, which means this won't be my favorite pairing as I am absolutely addicted to the treble sparkle of the S-EM9. For mids, I find them surprisingly close other than the lower mids a tad warmer on the SG 2.98, probably inherited from the mid-bass. Sub-bass has a bit more control on the RSD Silver mk3, although quantity seems ever so slightly enhanced on the SG 2.98 which I like. Ergonomics are the same, overall I think either is a great choice just depending on whether someone is wanting the clean, traditional silver sound or something a bit more lush and organic, for lack of a better word. The SG 2.98 is still lively, however, perhaps more forward sounding than the mk1 version. Despite having gold in the mix, it still manages to sound like a silver cable for the most part, just with a bit of added magic. 

*SG 2.98 compared to Leo* (mine is the Leo/Thor bespoke): Sub-bass on the Leo is a little more impactful, slightly more controlled, but it's missing that mid-bass magic of the SG 2.98. These two are closer than I thought they would be in overall sound signature, though. On the S-EM9, they both provide (for me) a perfect balance between technicality and musicality. It's hard to say which is better, in fact it's impossible to say which is better, it would be up to the user on which way they wanted to nudge the sound of the S-EM9 or any other IEM. Mids are both very clean and ever so slightly warm on both, while treble sparkle is a bit dryer on the Leo (although extension in my limited testing sounds similar, possibly slightly extending further on the Leo). They both sound great and I'd be really happy to have either permanently. Overall I would say Leo is a bit more of an all-rounder, while SG 2.98 gives that magic touch that can really shine with some IEMs. 

Perhaps also worth mentioning is that the two Rhapsodio cables were re-terminated to Pentaconn 4.4mm connectors and the Leo re-terminated to a Furutech, all using Mundorf supreme solder...for you plug believers out there 

 

-Collin-


----------



## edwardsean

There seems to be a lot of differing theories on shielding. Some cable makers claim that it is unnecessary with proper conductor geometry and only adds to capacitance. Others seem to believe that it has definite audio benefits. Most cables today forego it, but it gets included in some top tier cables like DHC Prion and HSA Venom. The latest balanced connector 4.4 TRRRS is able to isolate the ground from shielding which is nice. 

Can someone give some insight into whether shielding should play a significant role in choosing a cable in relation to "average" EMI/RF, let's say living near but not in a city. Of course, at the end of the day, it is about the sound and not the design, but it helps to have reliable information to judge online claims.


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## teknorob23

Spending about an hour with Janus D was one of my highlights at last weekend's canjam. I think i've probably found the perfect partner for my a18s. Price-wise its in the ball park with the 1960s but i'm not sure where in the UK i'm going to get to hear it. Has anyone heard both? and if so could i trouble you for a comparison?


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## flinkenick (Jul 25, 2018)

So I'm just gonna share some thoughts on a bunch of cables that have been discussed such as the HSA Venom and Aurora, RSD 2.98, and EA bespoke 8-wire cables I recently listened to.

To answer the previous question, I do believe in shielding from my previous experience with several cables. For starters, both the Rhapsodio Wizard Copper and HanSound Venom use a very thick multi-layer shield (might even be the same one, at least very similar). Both cables offer a high resolution and exceptionally black background, that gives them a darker type of sound. So despite their different wire material (high grade copper vs. silver/gold alloy), there are recognisable features between the two. Furthermore, cables like the PW Audio 1960's and Silverfi cables use a slimmer type of shielding. Both have a particularly black background, although the SilverFi's don't have a classic dark 'black' background, but a lighter stage with a technically black background in terms of stability of the background blackness.

However, the difficult thing with cables is that there are so many factors which determine the performance and signature, and shielding is just one. Other factors are the quality and material of the wire, the geometry, number of wires, and components like solder and plug. So yes, shielding can improve performance, but the total picture needs to be taken into account. In the end specs and especially marketing statements will only say so much, and personal or second hand impressions will be of more value. About the 4.4 plug, it is indeed able to isolate the ground from shielding, but this needs to be inherent in the design. The Sony WM1A/WM1Z don't have this incorporated in the design, so it needs to be manually modded.

*HanSound Audio Venom & Aurora*
When it comes to signature, the Venom has a somewhat unique signature for a silver alloy cable, as it provides a warm and smooth signature. The bass is not particularly enhanced, but the warmth in the tone stems from a laid-back upper treble. As a result, it is not a 'sparkly' cable per se, especially compared to top tier cables as Horus and 1960 4-Wire. Even so, it provides a high resolution with an especially spacious stage, despite its warmer tone. Due to a similar upper treble approach, it will not alter the signature of the Phantom significantly for instance by increasing the clarity, although it will improve its performance. The Venom shares similar traits to the EA Janus, with both offering a slightly warm tone, and higher resolution with soundstage expansion. The HanSound Aurora has a more classic silver sound, with a greater emphasis on increasing clarity. Even so, there is a melodious ring in its upper mids, which gives it a lively rather than sterile sound. In addition, it improves the clarity of the impact of the bass, so it is a rather fun sound. However, I was not particularly impressed with its top-end extension at the time, and accordingly, its resolution and staging. However, they have since made some adaptation, so the version I heard was outdated. I have sent it back to be updated.

*Rhapsodio 2.98*
One cable that I have recently been enjoying is the Rhapsodio 2.98 (v2), which Collin just introduced. The original 2.98 had a very unique signature, with its 2% gold resulting in an unusually warm and midforward signature for a silver cable, with a somewhat narrow soundstage. There was perhaps a bit of a 'muddiness' in the sound, contrasting the cleaner and spacious signature one would normally expect from a silver cable. It was however an excellent cable to add more body to iems which have a distant or lean midrange, such as the Solar and S-EM9. The new 2.98 has a more prototypical silver signature, providing a clear and open sound, albeit it with a punchy and relatively natural mid-bass. It combines a very lightly warm midrange with a slightly brighter and aggressive lower treble, which seems to result in beautifully melodious upper mids. For reference, it is a similar type of sound as Aurora, although I'd say the 298's mid-bass is a bit more organic in tone, and the Aurora's more impactful. The 2.98 is a bit brighter than the EA Thor II and Leonidas for instance, although its upper mids are also a bit more stimulating. Altogether, the 2.98 provides a clear but fun sound, with good performance.

*Effect Audio Bespoke 8-wire cables*
Moving on to the Effect 8-wire bespoke cables, which I all tested with the Phantom. Starting with the *Ares II 8-wire*, which has received a lot of attention recently. The Ares II maintains a similar tone, but expands the stage a bit further. In addition, its vocals seemed to improve in power, sounding more convincing. The performance and resolution and transparency might have remained on a roughly similar level. Overall, I think the pairing was good, but it was not what I seeked in terms of improvement. The problem is that both my SP1000 Cu and Phantom have a rather relaxed upper treble, so the Phantom tends to mostly benefit from brighter cables that lift the upper treble. I think I would have enjoyed the full reach of its scalability with my modded WM1Z for instance.

The *Eros II 8-wire* was a very pleasing combination, that improved its signature to a more neutral/natural sound. I listened to it after Thor II, so there was a slight drop in transparency compared to a pure silver. However, I preferred the tonality of this pairing. For lack of a better word, there's more of a natural 'copper' tone mixed in, without the warmth dominating the sound, while it similarly improves the clarity, without artificially brightening the tone. Silvers as Thor and Leo have a type of 'uncolored' sound which can equally be interesting, but simultaneously don't seem to exactly fit my preconception of natural. The improvement in performance might not be super large, but neither is the shift in signature - in a good way. The airiness of the stage improved, along with its separation, while the imaging became a bit more precise. The clarity improved, while maintaining the timbre.

The *Lionheart 8-wire* has a slightly prominent mid-bass, with a slower decay. Most noticeably, this adds a thickness to the note, and a slight veil over the vocals. Even so, its tone is relatively neutral, even though the treble is not enhanced. It's smooth, though not particularly warm. However, while it wasn't bright per se, there was a dryness in its tone; I preferred the tone of Eros II for instance. In addition, its performance was better than the Ares II 8-wire, but not at the level of the silver alloy cables. This was perhaps mostly because the separation tended to suffer from the mid-bass presentation. Altogether, I was not particularly impressed by the pairing with the Phantom, maybe my least favourite.

The *Thor II 8-Wire* has a silver tone that is similar to Leonidas; a clear sound with a smooth, refined treble. It offers great balance throughout the spectrum, while offering a significant improvement in resolution. The Phantom shakes off a bit of its warmth, but retains a relaxed, natural feel. By comparison, it is a bit smoother than the 2.98 and its stage perhaps more spacious. It is also a bit warmer, with the 2.98's brighter upper mids in turn offering a bit more sparkle. As the bass has sufficient power but is not dominating in the sound, the stage is slightly cleaner than Leonidas 4-wire, which offers an impressive impact, but can affect the separation. Altogether, the Thor II provides a cleaner and more resolved sound, while remaining particularly smooth. The *Leonidas 8-wire* in turn has a similar tone as Thor, as both are slightly warm silvers, that offer high resolution and increased detail, presented in a relatively smooth manner. There is a slight increase in performance between the two, such as a greater sense of depth, and accordingly, more holographic feel of Leonidas. In addition, Leonidas' bass seemed a bit more impactful. I would need more time than I had to delve into their differences.

*Crystal Cable Duet*
I recently discussed the Duet, but need to make an addendum. The manufacturer had twisted the memory wire of one side in a different direction as the other, so the cable was out of phase when I tested it, and must shamefully admit I didn't notice it, although the sound seemed a bit off. The resolution and transparency of the cable was good, but their was a certain dryness in the sound that kept me from appreciating it, as well as a closed in sound. In phase, the extension and impact of the bass increases, while providing a lightly warm tone to the midrange. It's a different type of timbre than the aforementioned Leonidas and Thor II, providing more of a clear sound with a touch of warmth, where the EA cables have an even smoother tonality. At the same time, the 2.98 in turn is a touch brighter than the Duet. In addition, the Duet now offers an open, more contemporary-sized stage. Taken together, it offers good performance and a nice tone, and makes for a solid allrounder.


----------



## Deezel177

flinkenick said:


> So I'm just gonna share some thoughts on a bunch of cables that have been discussed such as the HSA Venom and Aurora, RSD 2.98, and EA bespoke 8-wire cables I recently listened to.
> 
> To answer the previous question, I do believe in shielding from my previous experience with several cables. For starters, both the Rhapsodio Wizard Copper and HanSound Venom use a very thick multi-layer shield (might even be the same one, at least very similar). Both cables offer a high resolution and exceptionally black background, that gives them a darker type of sound. So despite their different wire material (high grade copper vs. silver/gold alloy), there are recognisable features between the two. Furthermore, cables like the PW Audio 1960's and Silverfi cables use a slimmer type of shielding. Both have a particularly black background, although the SilverFi's don't have a classic dark 'black' background, but a lighter stage with a technically black background in terms of stability of the background blackness.
> 
> ...



Excellent impressions as always, man! Ever since moving the 8-wire Ares II to the A6t's to warm them up a little (especially in the upper-treble), I've gone back to pairing the Phantom with my 4-wire Thor II and the combo is as sublime as ever. Like you said, it's a clear tone with smoothness and refinement, but zero harshness or brightness. It sounds like the mid-bass quickens in decay and then a slight-but-wide lift occurs past 7kHz, which - as you said - clears up the stage and shakes off some of the warm air. It's probably my favourite pairing in terms of versatility and refinement (even though the tone of the 8-wire Ares II still has my vote honestly), and something people like @Wyville should definitely try some time.


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## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Excellent impressions as always, man! Ever since moving the 8-wire Ares II to the A6t's to warm them up a little (especially in the upper-treble), I've gone back to pairing the Phantom with my 4-wire Thor II and the combo is as sublime as ever. Like you said, it's a clear tone with smoothness and refinement, but zero harshness or brightness. It sounds like the mid-bass quickens in decay and then a slight-but-wide lift occurs past 7kHz, which - as you said - clears up the stage and shakes off some of the warm air. It's probably my favourite pairing in terms of versatility and refinement (even though the tone of the 8-wire Ares II still has my vote honestly), and something people like @Wyville should definitely try some time.


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## edwardsean

flinkenick said:


> About the 4.4 plug, it is indeed able to isolate the ground from shielding, but this needs to be inherent in the design. The Sony WM1A/WM1Z don't have this incorporated in the design, so it needs to be manually modded.



It's strange that after going through the trouble adding another ring (TRRRS) that Sony doesn't end up using the isolated ground. My cable has shielding that goes to the separate ground sleeve, if my DAP, like the WM1A/Z, hasn't incorporated that into their design is all that shielding useless?


----------



## flinkenick

edwardsean said:


> It's strange that after going through the trouble adding another ring (TRRRS) that Sony doesn't end up using the isolated ground. My cable has shielding that goes to the separate ground sleeve, if my DAP, like the WM1A/Z, hasn't incorporated that into their design is all that shielding useless?


Yes unfortunately so, and it is strange. I can't say I know the reasoning behind it.


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## ayang02

flinkenick said:


> Yes unfortunately so, and it is strange. I can't say I know the reasoning behind it.



I read somewhere that the extra GND is for single-ended 4.4 mm plugs (do these even exist on the market today?) and I also wonder which 4.4 mm devices actually utilize this GND for shielding purposes, without needing to mod the device of course?


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## LCeh (Jul 27, 2018)

So I guess it's time for a bit of impression on the billow 8-wire. I am not too articulate in describing sound, but I will try to go into detail of the journey and hope that gives you guys where I am coming from.

On a sidenote, I think It's a slight shame that Beat Audio cables don't have much coverage on head-fi, I think they make a lot of fantastic cables with great after-sales service.

To begin, let's start with why I was looking for a new cable. My setup was the AK SP1000 SS with Rhapsodio Galaxy Ciem. I was using the Rhapsodio copper wizard 4 wire. I think most would agree that the Galaxy is slight V-shaped, and the ciem puts a bit more emphasis on the lower end due to better seal. The result is that the bass sometimes overpowers the vocals. So I was looking for a cable that can keep the bass authority, but brings the mids a bit more forward, and ideally with a bigger soundstage, so I can hear the different sounds from the music more clearly.

I had a chance to listen to quite a lot of cables from different brands, and I tried most of the flagships from pw audio, effect audio, toxic cables, plusaound etc. My experience from all the different cables is that at the end of the day, it comes down to synergy and sacrifice. For example, I see a lot of positive reviews on cables such as the pw audio flagship cables, but I tried the pw 1950s and wasn't especially impressed. It provided a clean sound, but somehow it didn't sound natural with my setup. So at the end of the day, synergy with the setup is utmost important.

And it's all about balance. When I was looking for big soundstage, sometimes I find one that gives me that, but the end result is too thin sounding. Which is why I think cables are all about sacrifice. What are you willing to sacrifice to get what you want? Smaller soundstage for more bass? Bigger soundstage but thinner sounds? So I was looking for a cable that gave me what I wanted, but with the least sacrifice.

So I finally got a chance to listen to the billow 8, and it gave me a very balanced sound. Let's start with the bass. The bass is still punchy, decent quantity, maybe slightly less than the copper wizard, but when music calls for it, the bass is there. It's there, but it doesn't interfere with the mids. The mids are warm, slightly forward, and sounds quite natural to my ears. I was most impressed when I listen to male vocals with this. The highs are smooth, with decent presence.

The overall sound I would say is slightly on the warm side, but with a big and 3D soundstage that gives you all the frequencies without interfering with each other much. It brings the mids forward, so the billow might not be for those who already has a mid-centric signature.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to your setup and ymmv, but I was very happy with this purchase.


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## Newaudiophile1987

hello guys, anyone interested to buy PW audio 1960 cable ( 2 wire - 1.2m) - 2 pin - termination 3.5m IRS - mint condition - do not hesitate to PM.


----------



## edwardsean

edwardsean said:


> It's strange that after going through the trouble adding another ring (TRRRS) that Sony doesn't end up using the isolated ground. My cable has shielding that goes to the separate ground sleeve, if my DAP, like the WM1A/Z, hasn't incorporated that into their design is all that shielding useless?





flinkenick said:


> Yes unfortunately so, and it is strange. I can't say I know the reasoning behind it.



I’m still trying to get a handle on this. It seems like you are saying that shielding is effective but only when the design of the cable and amp allow for an isolated ground. I thought that the majority of amps don't have an isolated ground plane. Wouldn't that then render the shielding in those top cables useless bulk for the most part? I always thought shielding can be effective even just going to a common ground. 

Also, if having the separate ground in the 4.4 plug has no benefit without an isolated ground in the amp is there a reason why HSA incorporated the separate 3.5 shielding connector in their TOTL Venom?  Wouldn’t it be as useless with DAPs like the WM1Z/A and DX200 as the 4.4? 

I defer to your expertise. I'm just not sure I’m understanding this right.


----------



## ayang02

edwardsean said:


> Also, if having the separate ground in the 4.4 plug has no benefit without an isolated ground in the amp is there a reason why HSA incorporated the separate 3.5 shielding connector in their TOTL Venom? Wouldn’t it be as useless with DAPs like the WM1Z/A and DX200 as the 4.4?



I've seen someone use a single 4.4 mm plug with the HSA Venom where the ground shielding signal  is directed to the unused GND on the 4.4 mm plug, thus eliminating the need to use a dedicated plug for ground shielding purpose. He also had to modify his WM1Z 4.4 mm output port so that its GND is connected to a separate ground to make this work of course because most 4.4 mm balanced output devices only utilize 4 terminals.


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## artpiggo

If you separate 4.4 and ground, it will be like this.


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## edwardsean

ayang02 said:


> I've seen someone use a single 4.4 mm plug with the HSA Venom where the ground shielding signal  is directed to the unused GND on the 4.4 mm plug, thus eliminating the need to use a dedicated plug for ground shielding purpose. He also had to modify his WM1Z 4.4 mm output port so that its GND is connected to a separate ground to make this work of course because most 4.4 mm balanced output devices only utilize 4 terminals.



Yes, that is the configuration I'm using with my iBasso DX200. The shielding is connected separately to the ground sleeve of the 4.4. Paul at iBasso has confirmed for me that the ground terminal is used in the DX200. It's just not an isolated ground. I wonder if the modification to the WM1Z was to simply use the separate ground terminal or whether it was to actually connect it to an isolated ground.


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## ayang02

edwardsean said:


> Yes, that is the configuration I'm using with my iBasso DX200. The shielding is connected separately to the ground sleeve of the 4.4. Paul at iBasso has confirmed for me that the ground terminal is used in the DX200. It's just not an isolated ground. I wonder if the modification to the WM1Z was to simply use the separate ground terminal or whether it was to actually connect it to an isolated ground.



That's interesting to know, did Paul explain what the ground terminal is supposed to be used/good for? I think I recently asked about WooAudio's WA11 and it seems like they aren't using the 4.4 mm ground at all.


----------



## edwardsean

ayang02 said:


> That's interesting to know, did Paul explain what the ground terminal is supposed to be used/good for? I think I recently asked about WooAudio's WA11 and it seems like they aren't using the 4.4 mm ground at all.



The ground terminal is normally connected to one end of the shielding to conduct away electrical interference from the signal bearing cores. Without being connected to the ground the shielding acts like an antenna only increasing capacitance in the cable.  My understanding was always that this is useful even if the ground is not isolated from the common ground plane. But, some of things that @flinkenick wrote earlier confused me. So, I'm hoping he could clear this up as he is the expert.


----------



## ayang02

edwardsean said:


> The ground terminal is normally connected to one end of the shielding to conduct away electrical interference from the signal bearing cores. Without being connected to the ground the shielding acts like an antenna only increasing capacitance in the cable.  My understanding was always that this is useful even if the ground is not isolated from the common ground plane. But, some of things that @flinkenick wrote earlier confused me. So, I'm hoping he could clear this up as he is the expert.


I think you are describing the use case where cables with shielding are involved, that I understand. I wasn't sure if that's the only useful use case to utilize that 4.4 mm ground and I was really wondering if there was another use for that ground since a handful of DAC/AMP/DAP manufacturers choose to ignore it.


----------



## edwardsean

ayang02 said:


> I think you are describing the use case where cables with shielding are involved, that I understand. I wasn't sure if that's the only useful use case to utilize that 4.4 mm ground and I was really wondering if there was another use for that ground since a handful of DAC/AMP/DAP manufacturers choose to ignore it.



I see. I remember a post somewhere that was speculating a different use but not as any kind of ground. If the sleeve of the 4.4 is being used as a ground it would be for the shielding. The fact that so many audio manufacturers are ignoring it isn't because of a different use case altogether, but they don't think the ground is necessary. I think most headphone cables today favor a design without shielding. 

Again, I'm no expert so please do post anything you learn about this.


----------



## flinkenick (Jul 30, 2018)

Alright let me start by assuring I am absolutely no expert on the matter either. What I know I know from the guys at Music Sanctuary, and they had to explain it three times when I got the Venom ; )

I assume the Venom was originally designed for the AK players, to separate the ground by using an additional 3.5 as follows.



With 4.4 this is also possible using the 5th pole. However, the Sony daps, and perhaps most daps (I don't know) do not automatically connect the ground to 5th pole, rendering it useless. As to the more existential question why they would design the 5th pole this way, and then not apply it in the dap, beats me. So in the Sony daps this needs to be manually modded to make the active shield work. An alternative route is just getting it with dual 4.4 and 3.5 jacks like for the AK.

A second question is how much effect the active versus passive shielding has in the first place. Venom has an especially black background and high resolution. However, does the active aspect of the shielding take it to another level compared to passive shielding? I'm not sure I can fully say so. Cables with passive shielding like the Rhapsodio Copper Wizard, Silverfi's, and 1960's provide similar characteristics. Even so, one would need to compare a passive vs. active shielding in the same cable to answer this question. I have heard that the guys at MS tested two configs of the 1980's cable, and the active one sounded worse for some reason. Which isn't to say that active shielding always sounds worse of course, just that it is one of the many aspects of cables that can have an effect on the sound, and it comes down to testing a specific configuration.


----------



## artpiggo (Jul 30, 2018)

flinkenick said:


> Alright let me start by assuring I am absolutely no expert on the matter either. What I know I know from the guys at Music Sanctuary, and they had to explain it three times when I got the Venom ; )
> 
> I assume the Venom was originally designed for the AK players, to separate the ground by using an additional 3.5 as follows.
> 
> ...



What does an active shielding mean? Do you mean active is putting both two plugs into DAP and passive means putting just one balanced plug and leave ground 3.5mm hanging outside.


----------



## edwardsean

flinkenick said:


> Alright let me start by assuring I am absolutely no expert on the matter either. What I know I know from the guys at Music Sanctuary, and they had to explain it three times when I got the Venom ; )
> 
> I assume the Venom was originally designed for the AK players, to separate the ground by using an additional 3.5 as follows.
> 
> ...



Flinkenick. Thanks for taking the time to respond. What you wrote makes sense but my real question isn't about having the 5th pole connected or not. It has to do with the differences between 1) having the shielding share the 4th pole (in a 2.5) going to a _common_ ground,  2) having the shielding _separated_ (as in the Venom dual 2.5+3.5, or 5th pole of a 4.4) going to a _common_ ground, 3) having the shielding separated (as in the Venom dual 2.5+3.5, or 5th pole of a 4.4) going to an _isolated_ ground.

When I reterminated my cable from 2.5 to 4.4 I was able to go from scenario 1 to scenario 2.  In light of what you said, I was wondering if that move rendered any benefit because I was not able to go to scenario 3. In my situation, the IBasso DX200+Amp8 4.4 connects the 5th pole separately to ground, but it isn't an isolated ground. I tend to think that if HSA created that dual connector design, they believe a separate ground is beneficial--even without an isolated ground plane, because you rarely get that.

At any rate, the background from my cable is very black, and, as you said, that could stem from any number of reasons. At this point I'm going to stop asking questions and just enjoy it. I'm happy with the sound. It could be pixies and faeries shooing away electrons.


----------



## flinkenick

artpiggo said:


> What does an active shielding mean? Do you mean active is putting both two plugs into DAP and passive means putting just one balanced plug and leave ground 3.5mm hanging outside.


Active shielding is when the shield of the cable is connected separately to ground, like by using the additional 3.5 in the pic above, or the fifth pole of 4.4.


edwardsean said:


> Flinkenick. Thanks for taking the time to respond. What you wrote makes sense but my real question isn't about having the 5th pole connected or not. It has to do with the differences between 1) having the shielding share the 4th pole (in a 2.5) going to a _common_ ground,  2) having the shielding _separated_ (as in the Venom dual 2.5+3.5, or 5th pole of a 4.4) going to a _common_ ground, 3) having the shielding separated (as in the Venom dual 2.5+3.5, or 5th pole of a 4.4) going to an _isolated_ ground.
> 
> When I reterminated my cable from 2.5 to 4.4 I was able to go from scenario 1 to scenario 2.  In light of what you said, I was wondering if that move rendered any benefit because I was not able to go to scenario 3. In my situation, the IBasso DX200+Amp8 4.4 connects the 5th pole separately to ground, but it isn't an isolated ground. I tend to think that if HSA created that dual connector design, they believe a separate ground is beneficial--even without an isolated ground plane, because you rarely get that.
> 
> At any rate, the background from my cable is very black, and, as you said, that could stem from any number of reasons. At this point I'm going to stop asking questions and just enjoy it. I'm happy with the sound. It could be pixies and faeries shooing away electrons.


Ah I see, yes I missed that apologies. I think you are underestimating how little of an expert I am on this  I'm going to tag @Kozato as he does the Sony mod and is much more up to speed on these matters, so hopefully he can give a satisfactory answer. I will say personally, I would attribute the majority of effects to the shield itself, rather than the active part or the isolated vs ground aspect. But this is the first cable I have heard with an active shield.


----------



## thedanadamsusa

I have posted something along the lines of this post on the Effect Audio forum; as the cables I'm considering are all by that particular manufacturer. I thought it would be helpful to offer some additional insight though, and run it by the gurus here, in the more generic cables thread. I'm looking for a cable that has good suitability/synergy with the Hermes VIs, and the Hiby R6 over a balanced connection. Ultimately I’ve read a fair amount of reviews for the three cables listed below and feel they would be well suited to my Hermes VIs - esp as Empire Ears are now using Effects Audio cables as standard on some of the newer models. I’m hoping someone here, may have had some experience of one, or some of these combinations and can impart some advice. Based on reviews and price, I have narrowed it down to the following cables;


Ares II 8-wire

Lionheart

Thor II Silver

My objective with the balanced connection is to;

a) get the best out of the Hiby R6 - which really benefits from it.

b) get the best from the Empire Ears Hermes VIs - I'm using the stock cable which only offers a single ended connection right now.

I currently have some bass attenuation from the Hiby R6, which definitely feels like an impedance artifact - so an iEMatch seems like the obvious solution in this respect?

The one thing I’m absolutely not hoping to achieve, is ‘fixing’ the signature of my IEMs with a cable. The device I would employ in this regard is the iEMatch - I saw this as a suggestion in Twister’s review of the Hiby R6 on Head-Fi, and his use of it to remedy a similarly low impedance IEM like the Campfire Andromeda to deal with the R6s high 10 ohms output. I was expecting a similar result for the Hermes VI. The only role of the cable for me, was specifically to add a balanced connection, and also hopefully squeeze the most potential out of my IEMs and DAP, once the iEMatch was added into the equation. Any suggestions would be more than welcome; as I want achieve the most effective synergy across all the components of my rig.

Many Thanks,

Dan


----------



## Kerouac (Aug 1, 2018)

OK, just some harmless and innocent (meant) wednesday afternoon cableporn picture post 






So far these combinations work(ed) out great for me synergy wise...

Top left => EA x MS Eos + Phantom. Great synergy, but the Eos will probably be replaced by an Ares II 8-wire + PSsquare plug on that IEM in the near future.
Top mid => Toxic Silver Widow 22awg (still sad that Frank has passed away recently) + Spartan Adel. Ergonomics are maybe not the best, but the sq makes up for that imo.
Top right => Ares II 4-wire + Warbler Prelude. I tried the Eos on the Prelude, but to my own surprise (didn't expect that) I still preffered the (warmer) Ares II on that IEM.
Bottom left => PWaudio 1960 2-wire + Zeus XR. Simply the best match on the Zeus XR to my ears. Pure audioheaven from the RedWine modded AK380Cu!
Bottom mid => Norne Silvergarde S (thanks @SeeSax!) + Solar. I received this cable last Saturday and tried it on the Phantom for a while, but I slightly preffered the Eos synergy. Silvergarde sounds amazing on the good ol' Solar though!
Bottom right => Norne Silver 23awg prototype (which I had mainly on the Solar over the past months). I have this special (inbetween Therium and Silvergarde) cable for quite some time now. Ergonomics are surely better (thinner, more flexible) than the Silvergarde. But I still have to do some A-B test soon, to hear how they sound exactly, compared to each other.

Of course it's also nice to do some cable rolling from time to time, but I try to keep that to a limit, because I'm always afraid that the IEM sockets might get too loose over time, by switching too much


----------



## SeeSax

@Kerouac this entire time we've been chatting over PM, I was under the impression that you were NOT an IEM/cable hoarder to the same degree as me. I am clearly wrong, and I really should have looked at your signature sooner...amazing collection you have there! I draw the line right at about one IEM/cable pairing for every day of the week and it has served me well (as long as there remain 12 days in a week). 

Hope you're enjoying the cable!

-Collin-


----------



## audio123

ctaxxxx said:


> Anyone know anything about the (GPC) Penon GD849? I didn't realize they released new cables.
> 
> Edit: Now I see they have a pure silver cable up - Penon Leo. These must be brands new.


Hi, I have the GD849 & Leo as well as the Neo. 
Some early impressions out of the box. 
The GD849 is full and lush sounding which provides good intimacy. 
The Neo is clinical sounding and it is able to add agility to the overall presentation.
The Leo is airy sounding with immense soundstage. 
Hope this helps!


----------



## Ike1985 (Aug 2, 2018)

I had the opportunity to have some quiet time with the Han Sound Venom.  Before the Venom my cable experience had been like most people; I heard slight changes in vocal positioning, slight alterations to the warmth or brightness of the sound and a miniscule change in the shimmer and crash of cymbals or the extension of a drum.  With the Venom it was the first time I’ve been shocked with a cable.  I expected to play through all my familiar test tracks subtlety listening for changes and making notes, I never made any notes.  I just listened every free minute I had(which sadly isn’t much these days) and listened and listened some more.  I had the cable for 7 days but due to work and life I only got to spend a few hours out of two or three days listening, while my son slept I was up until 2am losing sleep for work alone in the dark with the Venom, my laptop (wifi, Bluetooth disabled, etc, yea I do that), Hugo2 and A18t.  Cue crying audiophile meme.

It’s odd because the impressions I came away with matched exactly like those found in the description for the Venom on the Music Sanctuary page(I had never even heard of the Venom much less read it's product description).  I witnessed a completely black background, a blackness that you have to experience combined with eerily realistic vocals a _massive_ stage and true high definition.  If any of you have ever been on a cave tour at Mammoth Cave when the tour guides switch off the lights, the Venom gives me the same sense of nothing when I listen in the dark with my eyes closed.  There’s a massive distance, a void from which the sounds appear as striking displays of life contrasted against the utter nothing but also every note carries with it aspects from whence it came; reverberations from the deep.  Performances recorded in places with echoes and unique acoustic properties are stunning, every miniscule detail of the reverberation is brought forward in stunning resolution.  The overall resolution is the best I’ve ever heard from any cable.

My setup was as follows: Source -> Hugo 2 -> Venom -> A18t.  Both the A18t and the Hugo2 are top tier technical performers which is why I love their pairing so much, they complement each other beautifully.  A18t is a top technical performer among IEMs, class leading layering and separation, very high resolution and a massive well segregated stage.  Hugo2 has many of the same qualities.  I never imagined that the premium 64 Audio SPC cable would be such a bottleneck, once removed the A18t revealed what it could really do.  Dense lifelike hyper-detailed vocals I’ve only ever heard on Zeus XR suddenly came forth from a monitor with slightly airy vocals.  They weren’t thrust unnaturally to the fore but instead were given a sort of eerie creepy realistic quality I’ve only heard from Zeus XR.  The Venom is a shielded and grounded cable and the Zeus XR has internal shielding via coating on the drivers.  My guess is that the eerily realistic vocals found on the Zeus XR are due to its’ black background(shielding) and this quality is now something my A18t’s possess when paired with the Venom.  As far as positioning, the Venom brings the slightly recessed vocals on the A18t back into perfect alignment and imbues them with this liquid gold realism while maintaining a totally effortless and natural presentation.

Bass extension is _deep _with the Venom while treble extension is ever so slightly smoothed out but since I have the wonderful 64 Audio apex module system all I have to do to increase it is replace the M20 module with the M15 and voila I’ve got more than enough treble extension.  I preferred the M20 with the Venom and Hugo2 90% of the time.

I told myself I was done with my portable Audio setup; H2, A18t but the Venom taught me otherwise.  It’s impossible to go back to my stock 64 Audio premium SPC cable and not know what I’m missing now.  I’ve decided to purchase a Venom and I will do a formal review when it arrives and we’ve had some sweet sweet time together, to hear the rest of my impressions you’ll have to wait until then.  Forgive my ranting, it’s not something I normally do.  There have only been a few occasions in my audio journey where I’ve felt the need to just let the words flow and this is one of them.  Much more to come very soon., I've been poisoned with Venom.


----------



## flinkenick (Aug 2, 2018)

Well, I can't think of a better introduction for my Venom review.

https://theheadphonelist.com/han-sound-audio-venom/





thedanadamsusa said:


> I have posted something along the lines of this post on the Effect Audio forum; as the cables I'm considering are all by that particular manufacturer. I thought it would be helpful to offer some additional insight though, and run it by the gurus here, in the more generic cables thread. I'm looking for a cable that has good suitability/synergy with the Hermes VIs, and the Hiby R6 over a balanced connection. Ultimately I’ve read a fair amount of reviews for the three cables listed below and feel they would be well suited to my Hermes VIs - esp as Empire Ears are now using Effects Audio cables as standard on some of the newer models. I’m hoping someone here, may have had some experience of one, or some of these combinations and can impart some advice. Based on reviews and price, I have narrowed it down to the following cables;
> 
> 
> Ares II 8-wire
> ...


Hi Dan,

I only have fleeting experience with those cables and the R6, so I can't offer much insight. But from what I understand, the effect of the iEMatch would nullify the effects of both the balanced output as well as cable. This leaves you with two choices: either using the iEMatch with a cheap (balanced) cable, or forfeiting it to go for a quality cable.

If you choose the latter, it mostly comes down to what kind of 'flavor' you like. I'm assuming you are currently using the Plastics One cable that used to come with EE iems. Every other cable is going to change the signature in a different way. For instance, both Ares II and Lionheart are likely to add more mid-bass and create a warmer tone. However, Lionheart is perhaps a more neutral/natural, while Ares II is warm with a brighter touch in its lower treble. It really comes down to the characteristics of your current setup. For instance, when I am using the Phantom and SP1000 Cu, I would prefer Eros II over Lionheart, since it has less mid-bass, effectively resulting in a more articulate lower treble. But if the R6 attenuates the bass, maybe Lionheart or Ares II would indeed be better. Thor II in turn provides a different type of timbre altogether. While hard to describe, you could perhaps see it as a more uncolored hi-fi type of sound where the warmth is not dominant in the tone, even though it is nevertheless a smooth sound. But to be honest, I would go blindly on @EagleWings since he has firsthand experience with the R6, and is generally very knowledgeable.


----------



## Ike1985

flinkenick said:


> Well, I can't think of a better introduction for my Venom review.
> 
> https://theheadphonelist.com/han-sound-audio-venom/
> 
> ...



How did you find it with the A18t?


----------



## thedanadamsusa

flinkenick said:


> Well, I can't think of a better introduction for my Venom review.
> 
> https://theheadphonelist.com/han-sound-audio-venom/
> 
> ...




Thanks for your advice - it is much appreciated. There are two key reasons why I want to change the cable btw;

a) The stock cable is a SE connection - my DAP, the Hiby R6, really improves with a balanced connection.

b) If I'm going to change the cable, I may as well upgrade it too.

Btw, I've been listening the Hermes on a SE connection through my old Pioneer XDP-300R, and they already sound better than my UM PRO 50s on a balanced connection, and an ALO Ref 8. Really impressed so far!

I've now gone for the Lionheart; as it seems to sit between the Ares and the Thor in tone. Not too warm, but not too bright. If the iEMatch simply exacerbates the attenuation, I'll likely just return it, and stick with the cable upgrade.


----------



## 284033 (Aug 3, 2018)

edwardsean said:


> Flinkenick. Thanks for taking the time to respond. What you wrote makes sense but my real question isn't about having the 5th pole connected or not. It has to do with the differences between 1) having the shielding share the 4th pole (in a 2.5) going to a _common_ ground,  2) having the shielding _separated_ (as in the Venom dual 2.5+3.5, or 5th pole of a 4.4) going to a _common_ ground, 3) having the shielding separated (as in the Venom dual 2.5+3.5, or 5th pole of a 4.4) going to an _isolated_ ground.
> 
> When I reterminated my cable from 2.5 to 4.4 I was able to go from scenario 1 to scenario 2.  In light of what you said, I was wondering if that move rendered any benefit because I was not able to go to scenario 3. In my situation, the IBasso DX200+Amp8 4.4 connects the 5th pole separately to ground, but it isn't an isolated ground. I tend to think that if HSA created that dual connector design, they believe a separate ground is beneficial--even without an isolated ground plane, because you rarely get that.
> 
> At any rate, the background from my cable is very black, and, as you said, that could stem from any number of reasons. At this point I'm going to stop asking questions and just enjoy it. I'm happy with the sound. It could be pixies and faeries shooing away electrons.



You may wish to read about the differences between balanced and unbalanced output here:
http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

In the case of 2.5mm output, which is typically R-/R+/L+/L-, if the shielding of a cable like the Venom is wired to the negative poles of a 2.5mm connector together with the inverted signal, you would most likely be introducing more noise into the signal, since 2.5mm balanced output doesn’t have a dedicated ground.

Therefore, HanSound Audio had to use a separate 3.5mm connector to ground the shielding of the cable to the dedicated/separate ground section of a DAP, which will result in the intended function of the cable.

However, for single ended configuration, the Venom can have the shielding shared with the L/R ground.

edit: Will be expanding this post with more examples and explanations later.


----------



## edwardsean

Kozato said:


> You may wish to read about the differences between balanced and unbalanced output here:
> http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/
> 
> In the case of 2.5mm output, which is typically R-/R+/L+/L-, if the shielding of a cable like the Venom is wired to the negative poles of a 2.5mm connector together with the inverted signal, you would most likely be introducing more noise into the signal, since 2.5mm balanced output doesn’t have a dedicated ground.
> ...



Thanks Kozato! That's what I figured. Also, though you didn't say it, I'm inferring that separating the shield ground carries this benefit whether the ground plane is common or isolated, though the latter would be best.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Ike1985 said:


> I had the opportunity to have some quiet time with the Han Sound Venom.  Before the Venom my cable experience had been like most people; I heard slight changes in vocal positioning, slight alterations to the warmth or brightness of the sound and a miniscule change in the shimmer and crash of cymbals or the extension of a drum.  With the Venom it was the first time I’ve been shocked with a cable.  I expected to play through all my familiar test tracks subtlety listening for changes and making notes, I never made any notes.  I just listened every free minute I had(which sadly isn’t much these days) and listened and listened some more.  I had the cable for 7 days but due to work and life I only got to spend a few hours out of two or three days listening, while my son slept I was up until 2am losing sleep for work alone in the dark with the Venom, my laptop (wifi, Bluetooth disabled, etc, yea I do that), Hugo2 and A18t.  Cue crying audiophile meme.
> 
> It’s odd because the impressions I came away with matched exactly like those found in the description for the Venom on the Music Sanctuary page(I had never even heard of the Venom much less read it's product description).  I witnessed a completely black background, a blackness that you have to experience combined with eerily realistic vocals a _massive_ stage and true high definition.  If any of you have ever been on a cave tour at Mammoth Cave when the tour guides switch off the lights, the Venom gives me the same sense of nothing when I listen in the dark with my eyes closed.  There’s a massive distance, a void from which the sounds appear as striking displays of life contrasted against the utter nothing but also every note carries with it aspects from whence it came; reverberations from the deep.  Performances recorded in places with echoes and unique acoustic properties are stunning, every miniscule detail of the reverberation is brought forward in stunning resolution.  The overall resolution is the best I’ve ever heard from any cable.
> 
> ...


Ike, did you listen to PW1960 Blackicon 2 or 4 core, any difference in sound quality?


----------



## edwardsean (Aug 3, 2018)

I recently reterminated my Tralucent Uber Too cable with a Furutech 4.4 giving the shielding a separated ground. I am really enjoying the results, but the cable is quite dated at this point. If you've had any experience with this cable can you advise me if whether it would be worth upgrading to one of the newer designs? I'm looking at DHC offerings and the HSA Venom.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Kerouac said:


> OK, just some harmless and innocent (meant) wednesday afternoon cableporn picture post
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which is your favorite silver cable? I'm in the market for one, likely the Norne Silvergarde. Seems to be the cheapest option for Silver in a thicker gauge. That prototype looks interesting though.


----------



## 284033

edwardsean said:


> Thanks Kozato! That's what I figured. Also, though you didn't say it, I'm inferring that separating the shield ground carries this benefit whether the ground plane is common or isolated, though the latter would be best.



The most ideal scenario would be to have a separate grounding box (something like an Entreq Audio grounding box, but smaller in size) for the shielding. That will really bring the grounded shielding to its maximum potential.


----------



## TYATYA (Aug 4, 2018)

audio123 said:


> Cable brand from Vietnam, Satin Audio
> 
> Official site : http://satinaudio.com/en/
> Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/SatinAudio/
> ...



My homeland handmade cable brand.
My first experience at their product is nice p/p.
I bough same day a PW no.5 8 wire ($343) and a Satin cable, 8 wire silver plate, (apprx $250).

I can say buying PW no.5 is my mistake! I listen by a HD800 and my at home can is S version.
Mid centric. Average, sphere shape sound stage. A bit warm.
I do love the sound stage as stock cable from Senn.
I just want to have improve clean and detail.
Satin sapphire cable make me happy with its cost.

Addition. I dont know why stock cable can separate size of vocal and instruments. It push vocal to near my head on a sphere like shape, while instruments sound in oval shape field which long axis through L R direction.


----------



## bvng3540

Can you also add this http://tritonaudiocables.com
Base in Washington state @alpha421 he the man behind all the nice cable, I can said that his price are very reasonable and his turnaround is the best in the business when order from him max you wait for your stuff is 5-7 business days, not weeks or months like many other


 

 


Here is one example of his craftsmanship, dont mind the slider, I have it laying around so I asked him to implemented into the cable, sound wise it par with many high end cable some cost 3-5 times as much


----------



## SLC1966

bvng3540 said:


> Can you also add this http://tritonaudiocables.com
> Base in Washington state @alpha421 he the man behind all the nice cable, I can said that his price are very reasonable and his turnaround is the best in the business when order from him max you wait for your stuff is 5-7 business days, not weeks or months like many other
> Here is one example of his craftsmanship, dont mind the slider, I have it laying around so I asked him to implemented into the cable, sound wise it par with many high end cable some cost 3-5 times as much


I have the Triton 8 strand pure silver and hybrid cables. I am highly impressed with @alpha421 craftmanship.  He stands by his work.  I was fine with a minor heatshrink issue on my pure silver cable. He was not and made sure he fixed it and he made sure he paid for all shipping.


----------



## SeeSax

bvng3540 said:


> Can you also add this http://tritonaudiocables.com
> Base in Washington state @alpha421 he the man behind all the nice cable, I can said that his price are very reasonable and his turnaround is the best in the business when order from him max you wait for your stuff is 5-7 business days, not weeks or months like many other
> Here is one example of his craftsmanship, dont mind the slider, I have it laying around so I asked him to implemented into the cable, sound wise it par with many high end cable some cost 3-5 times as much





SLC1966 said:


> I have the Triton 8 strand pure silver and hybrid cables. I am highly impressed with @alpha421 craftmanship.  He stands by his work.  I was fine with a minor heatshrink issue on my pure silver cable. He was not and made sure he fixed it and he made sure he paid for all shipping.



I will echo @bvng3540 and @SLC1966 (of course, they're my buddies) in the praise for @alpha421 and his workmanship. I've been singing praise for David for a year or so now...you won't find better communication, professionalism and turn-around time than David. And his home grown cables are screw*** fantastic to boot 

 

-Collin-


----------



## NaiveSound

Need a 2 pin. 4.4mm iem cable, not picky about brand, color, ect. 
Got one laying around I could buy?


----------



## SeeSax

NaiveSound said:


> Need a 2 pin. 4.4mm iem cable, not picky about brand, color, ect.
> Got one laying around I could buy?



What is your budget? I might have something.

-Collin-


----------



## ngd3

NaiveSound said:


> Need a 2 pin. 4.4mm iem cable, not picky about brand, color, ect.
> Got one laying around I could buy?



Same here except looking for silver, PM me if you have one for sale


----------



## ngd3

Anyone know what's going on with Whiplash? They made my favorite cable I've tried so far and seems like they vanished


----------



## twister6

ngd3 said:


> Anyone know what's going on with Whiplash? They made my favorite cable I've tried so far and seems like they vanished



Are you referring to their message on http://whiplashaudio.com/ ? They have been acquired by Brimar awhile back.  Have no idea what that mean since company is US based...


----------



## artpiggo

twister6 said:


> Are you referring to their message on http://whiplashaudio.com/ ? They have been acquired by Brimar awhile back.  Have no idea what that mean since company is US based...



Whiplash owner is now in bangkok. He opens hifi shop here.


----------



## artpiggo

NaiveSound said:


> Need a 2 pin. 4.4mm iem cable, not picky about brand, color, ect.
> Got one laying around I could buy?



Null audio lune mk v


----------



## Ike1985

hamhamhamsta said:


> Ike, did you listen to PW1960 Blackicon 2 or 4 core, any difference in sound quality?



I have not.


----------



## audio123

For those interested in the Penon Neo, my latest review on it 

https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/penon-neo/


----------



## bahamot

audio123 said:


> For those interested in the Penon Neo, my latest review on it
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/08/08/penon-neo/


Waiting your Penon GD849 review ...


----------



## ayang02

3 more days until HanSound starts taking Aegis 8-wire orders in Taiwan, I can't wait , hopefully the demo units arrive before that.

I'll probably have them build a Walkman port to micro USB cable as well.


----------



## audio123

bahamot said:


> Waiting your Penon GD849 review ...


Sure. It is in progress!


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi cable guys, have I got something for you! My new review of the Linum SuperBaX hot off the oven and piping hot!

Links here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/estron-linum-super-bax.22367/reviews#review-20708

And here in splashy webzine form thanks to my editor https://www.headphonesty.com/2018/08/review-linum-superbax-the-flight-of-excelsior/

Have a great day!


----------



## flinkenick

And my review of a current favourite, the Rhapsodio 2.98 silver-gold alloy. 

https://theheadphonelist.com/rhapsodio-2-98-v2-silver-gold-alloy-cable/


----------



## davidmolliere

flinkenick said:


> And my review of a current favourite, the Rhapsodio 2.98 silver-gold alloy. https://theheadphonelist.com/rhapsodio-2-98-v2-silver-gold-alloy-cable/



Thanks for the review!
I didn't think the price would be so attractive 

Quick question, it doesn't seem to be listed on their website, not yet available to the general public?


----------



## flinkenick

davidmolliere said:


> Thanks for the review!
> I didn't think the price would be so attractive
> 
> Quick question, it doesn't seem to be listed on their website, not yet available to the general public?


Ah yes Rhapsodio's website is always outdated. Maybe because Sammy keeps changing stuff all the time. It's available if you contact him via Facebook for instance, which is generally the best way to deal with Sammy. If you show some persistence he might give you a bit of a discount ; )


Ike1985 said:


> How did you find it with the A18t?


Sorry Ike slipped my mind, but yes it is a great pairing. Works in unison to create a highly resolved, but slightly warmer and smoother sound.


----------



## davidmolliere

flinkenick said:


> Ah yes Rhapsodio's website is always outdated. Maybe because Sammy keeps changing stuff all the time. It's available if you contact him via Facebook for instance, which is generally the best way to deal with Sammy. If you show some persistence he might give you a bit of a discount ; )



Got it, thanks!


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Hi, I am looking for advice - can anyone define the difference in sound signature on - pure silver, silver plated copper or silver plus gold (like from PlusSound).

Also, my maximum budget is $350, but looking for cheap as possible. Any brands offer good quality sound - as much as clarity and separation possible within my budget?

I have checked Thor Silver II+ on their site, it's features seems impressive. But any other brands offering same quality sound?

Thanks in advance...


----------



## papa_mia

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hi, I am looking for advice - can anyone define the difference in sound signature on - pure silver, silver plated copper or silver plus gold (like from PlusSound).
> 
> Also, my maximum budget is $350, but looking for cheap as possible. Any brands offer good quality sound - as much as clarity and separation possible within my budget?
> 
> ...


Pretty much have the same question, and from what I've read, Pwaudio Loki seems to be the thing.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hi, I am looking for advice - can anyone define the difference in sound signature on - pure silver, silver plated copper or silver plus gold (like from PlusSound).
> 
> Also, my maximum budget is $350, but looking for cheap as possible. Any brands offer good quality sound - as much as clarity and separation possible within my budget?
> 
> ...



There's no hard and fast rule about how a cable will sound based solely on the conductor used. For instance, two copper cables from two different manufacturers might have little in common, wide-wise.

However... there are some clichés to give you a starting point as to what to expect:

Copper is known for a warmer tone. More bass, less treble.
Silver-Plated Copper is v-shaped. Bass, but now more treble also.
Silver is known for purity of sound. Colorless, and sometimes even bright.
Silver + Gold, often with a very small percent of gold mix into the alloy, helps to warm up that pure silver sound, making it less bright.

Why this information is not too helpful if because some cables, like Thor Silver II, is a very abnormal creature, and is warmer and less bright than you might expect. Likewise, Ares II has more treble than many simple coppers.

Try reading as many reviews as you can on the cables you're interested in. And of course, if you get the chance, hear them for yourself.


----------



## papa_mia

PinkyPowers said:


> There's no hard and fast rule about how a cable will sound based solely on the conductor used. For instance, two copper cables from two different manufacturers might have little in common, wide-wise.
> 
> However... there are some clichés to give you a starting point as to what to expect:
> 
> ...


Hi Pinky, been a fan of your down to earth way of doing reviews, your take on the Oriveti NP (along with few other's) is one of the main reasons why I decided to get them. 
Now that have them, it's only natural that I would look for an after market cable to help them shine the brightest (pun intended). I believe they can benefit from something bright-ish, with good clarity and spacious stage. You think I can get something like that with 200$? My source is the Shanling M3S.
Oh and btw, is it a terrible idea to pair them with the Pwaudio No. 5, given the fact that the No. 5 is somewhat warm and rich in tone?


----------



## PinkyPowers

The no. 5 would be a mistake only because you said you wanted to boost clarity first. 

I would recommend the Ares II, given your price range and the Orivety NP signature.


----------



## TYATYA (Aug 10, 2018)

I have pw no5 hp for hd800s, balance xlr4.
I use it few days and then put it in zip bag with oxigen absorber.
I think it is not as good as my unbranch, no name Chinese made for hd650 before, a same price one.
(I do wonder how it good!).
Since my hd650 death recently due to accidental while moding, remain that cable. I cut the wire and mod to some 2.5 balance to dual xlr, 3.5 to xlr4,... and they're all good for me.
Cable structure is one of importance to consider beside its material.
I prefer big as big size diameter but as small as each fibre diameter. At that condition, 4 wire is ok, no need of 8x


----------



## Deezel177

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hi, I am looking for advice - can anyone define the difference in sound signature on - pure silver, silver plated copper or silver plus gold (like from PlusSound).
> 
> Also, my maximum budget is $350, but looking for cheap as possible. Any brands offer good quality sound - as much as clarity and separation possible within my budget?
> 
> ...



If you want to maximise clarity and separation, I'd recommend the PlusSound Silver + Gold; bright, clear and clean, but oh-so-smooth due to excellent headroom in the treble.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> If you want to maximise clarity and separation, I'd recommend the PlusSound Silver + Gold; bright, clear and clean, but oh-so-smooth due to excellent headroom in the treble.


And they are very comfortable cables! I use the Silver + Gold on my Rhapsodio Saturn and can wear them for hours on end while I waste my time playing video games (while I should really be doing academic stuff).


----------



## Erfan Elahi (Aug 11, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> If you want to maximise clarity and separation, I'd recommend the PlusSound Silver + Gold; bright, clear and clean, but oh-so-smooth due to excellent headroom in the treble.



@*Deezel177* PlusSound which series should I go for? To be paired with Andromeda. For now with the stock copper cable, the guitars and the drums are smooth, clear and sharp even boosting up 4k-16k frequencies - which I like. But the vocals are taking hiss at high volume.
@*PinkyPowers *Thanks a lot for elaboration.


----------



## ayang02

Just auditioned the Hansound Aegis 4-wire and 8-wire today and here are some pics and brief impressions:

64 Audio A18t, Hansound Aegis 4 & 8-wire, PlusSound X8 Tri-Copper (this is mine)

 
 

Impressions:
I spent a good 20-30 minutes listening to each of the Aegis wires. I also listened to my own Tri-Copper for direct comparisons with the two wires using the Sony WM1A & A18t. After listening to these wires, I have some mix reactions and I'll probably need more listening time to articulate these thoughts so I'll just focus on two aspects of the sound of these wires that stood out for me: vocals and bass impact.

Vocals:
Aegis 4-wire provided the most sparkle out of the three wires, followed by the Tri-Copper, the Aegis 8-wire had the least sparkle but the most thickness and smoothness out of the three. 

I'm not sure how long the 8-wire Aegis was burnt-in for since the demo unit just arrived today so yes, my impression may change (I've placed my order for the 8-wire). At times it seems like the Tri-Copper sounds like a "6-wire Aegis" where i hear traits from both the 4-wire and 8-wire Aegis. It may be that the WM1A isn't powerful enough to open up the 8-wire Aegis, I'll definitely try with other sources when I get the actual wire.

Bass Impact:
I'll characterize the differences in terms of impact area. Aegis 8-wire clearly has more impact area compared to the 4-wire. While the Tri-Copper's impact area is similar to the 4-wire Aegis', I did feel the punch was harder on the Tri-Copper compared to the other two wires.

Concluding Thoughts:
Aegis 4-wire is a bit V-shaped compared to the 8-wire where the sound is generally thicker and more detailed. I feel like I need to drive the 8-wire with something with more oomph to open up it's sound and that's why I chose to order the 8-wire, I'd like to see if I could unleash its potential.

The X8 Tri-Copper has its advantages against the Aegis wires and is still my current favorite. I guess it all comes down to presentation, there's something about the Aegis that makes me want to explore and spend more time with it. I think the Aegis wires are very competively priced, great job Hansound!


----------



## Deezel177

Erfan Elahi said:


> @*Deezel177* PlusSound which series should I go for? To be paired with Andromeda. For now with the stock copper cable, the guitars and the drums are smooth, clear and sharp even boosting up 4k-16k frequencies - which I like. But the vocals are taking hiss at high volume.
> @*PinkyPowers *Thanks a lot for elaboration.



If you’re looking to add body and smoothness to the vocals, I’d probably recommend the Tri-Copper from PlusSound’s range. If you want to keep the clear tone whilst giving vocals more body, the Effect Audio Thor Silver II is a great choice as well.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Deezel177 said:


> If you’re looking to add body and smoothness to the vocals, I’d probably recommend the Tri-Copper from PlusSound’s range. If you want to keep the clear tone whilst giving vocals more body, the Effect Audio Thor Silver II is a great choice as well.


Noted with thanks


----------



## PinkyPowers

Deezel177 said:


> If you’re looking to add body and smoothness to the vocals, I’d probably recommend the Tri-Copper from PlusSound’s range. If you want to keep the clear tone whilst giving vocals more body, the Effect Audio Thor Silver II is a great choice as well.



I concur on both counts.


----------



## pithyginger63

I feel like few people get the PS gph. I got one (partially for bling) but it sounds great so far.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Aug 13, 2018)

Got a used, limited edition Effect Audio Eos from the Head-Fi listings. This cable is amazing considering the price! Compared to the Ares II+, the treble is better extended, more detailed, and even smoother! There's no harshness in the vocals, which sound fairly neutral and airy. With the tighter bass, this really sounds like a silver cable.

I planned to use this with the Oriolus, due to its bloomy bass and warmth, but it works surprisingly well with the Hyla CE-5 too. The Ares was too much lower-treble and upper-mid energy with the Hyla. The Eos has brighter upper-treble, but I like that sparkle. The PW No.5 is too smooth now with the new AMP8 module for the DX200. Trying to move away from that smooth copper sound.

It's going to be hard trying not to compare this with whatever silver cable I decide next. I've been stuck between the Norne Silvergarde, PS Silver + Gold, and PW Loki. What has the same extension and sparkle as the Eos, with neutral to warm upper mids?

Edit: Read a couple posts back. Replaced EA Thor II with PS Silver + Gold.

Edit 2: I'm not sure anymore. I may prefer these on the Hyla. I miss the intimate vocals on the copper for the Oriolus. Might look into the EA Thor II again...


----------



## bahamot

Just FYI, PWAudio current working URL is https://www.pwaudio.com.hk/ @flinkenick


----------



## bahamot (Aug 12, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys, I just posted my CanJam SG 2018 article on TheHeadphoneList.com, which you can check out HERE. Below are excerpts from the article detailing PWAudio's latest series of cables, including their co-flagship 1950s. I also wrote impressions of Effect Audio's two Janus cables, which you can check out on their official thread soon. Cheers!
> 
> *PWAudio*
> 
> ...


Your PWAudio Xerxes description makes me want to buy it.. But priced almost the same as my IT04. Let the brain VS heart fight begins. Lol.


----------



## bvng3540

Ea ares II+ 8 wires or pw audio no.5 8 wires, which one best fit for EE phantom? Thanks


----------



## kubig123

bvng3540 said:


> Ea ares II+ 8 wires or pw audio no.5 8 wires, which one best fit for EE phantom? Thanks



The ares, the no.5 is too warm for the phantom that has already a warm signature.


----------



## bvng3540

kubig123 said:


> The ares, the no.5 is too warm for the phantom that has already a warm signature.


Ok thanks, how about 1960s, how much of an improvement from 2 to 4 wires


----------



## ctaxxxx (Aug 13, 2018)

PinkyPowers said:


> There's no hard and fast rule about how a cable will sound based solely on the conductor used. For instance, two copper cables from two different manufacturers might have little in common, wide-wise.
> 
> However... there are some clichés to give you a starting point as to what to expect:
> 
> ...



How warm is the Thor II? Is it warmer than the Ares, but not as warm as the No.5? Or you mean warm for a silver cable?

I've grown to liking the Eos cable with the Hyla CE-5, despite its brighter tone. I actually missed the slight vocal warmth of my Ares II+ with the Oriolus though. I find the No.5 too warm in comparison.


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> How warm is the Thor II? Is it warmer than the Ares, but not as warm as the No.5? Or you mean warm for a silver cable?
> 
> I've grown to liking the Eos cable with the Hyla CE-5, despite its brighter tone. I actually missed the slight vocal warmth of my Ares II+ with the Oriolus though. I find the No.5 too warm for in comparison.



I've been on a similar journey as you have, my friend. I also have the Oriolus and the CE-5 and I keep swapping around and landing back to where I started. When I began cable rolling on the Oriolus, I thought I'd better slap a more neutral silver cable on it since it has an overall warm tone, but then I sort of lost the magic that made the Oriolus special. Right now I have a Triton8 hybrid silver/copper on and it does really well. Keeps the fun nature of the IEM, but also increases resolution and sparkle a bit. Subtly, of course. 

For the CE-5, I'm just starting out and trying to figure out what can thicken up the mids. I LOVE the sound signature of this unique IEM, but the reviews are accurate when they say the mids and vocals can sound a little thin (especially with more modern pop music). I'm going to try pairing these with my Rhapsodio Copper Wizard when it arrives. My goal is to keep all of what makes the CE-5 technically excellent and just elevate the mid-bass and mid-range a touch. The treble sparkle and slamming sub-bass are amazing with pretty much any cable, though. 

I also have the DX200 with Amp8, by the way, and yeah I think PW Audio no5 is a tad too warm and relaxed for that setup - plus, mine is 3.5mm...4.4mm and never looking back  

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

ctaxxxx said:


> How warm is the Thor II? Is it warmer than the Ares, but not as warm as the No.5? Or you mean warm for a silver cable?
> 
> I've grown to liking the Eos cable with the Hyla CE-5, despite its brighter tone. I actually missed the slight vocal warmth of my Ares II+ with the Oriolus though. I find the No.5 too warm in comparison.



In tone, the Thor II is actually clearer than the Ares II, because of a slight rise in the overall treble region. But it gains body, warmth and euphony from an elevated mid-bass. The Ares II has a warmer timbre, but a lower-treble peak gives it an articulation that you'd rarely find in copper cables like the No. 5. If you're looking for a rich and bodied presentation with a clear tone (or more _light_ in the stage), the Thor II would be more suitable. On the other hand, if you want a warmer tinge to instruments paired with more bite, then the Ares II is the one to get.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Deezel177 said:


> In tone, the Thor II is actually clearer than the Ares II, because of a slight rise in the overall treble region. But it gains body, warmth and euphony from an elevated mid-bass. The Ares II has a warmer timbre, but a lower-treble peak gives it an articulation that you'd rarely find in copper cables like the No. 5. If you're looking for a rich and bodied presentation with a clear tone (or more _light_ in the stage), the Thor II would be more suitable. On the other hand, if you want a warmer tinge to instruments paired with more bite, then the Ares II is the one to get.



Thanks. Ended up placing an order for Thor II. 



SeeSax said:


> I've been on a similar journey as you have, my friend. I also have the Oriolus and the CE-5 and I keep swapping around and landing back to where I started. When I began cable rolling on the Oriolus, I thought I'd better slap a more neutral silver cable on it since it has an overall warm tone, but then I sort of lost the magic that made the Oriolus special. Right now I have a Triton8 hybrid silver/copper on and it does really well. Keeps the fun nature of the IEM, but also increases resolution and sparkle a bit. Subtly, of course.
> 
> For the CE-5, I'm just starting out and trying to figure out what can thicken up the mids. I LOVE the sound signature of this unique IEM, but the reviews are accurate when they say the mids and vocals can sound a little thin (especially with more modern pop music). I'm going to try pairing these with my Rhapsodio Copper Wizard when it arrives. My goal is to keep all of what makes the CE-5 technically excellent and just elevate the mid-bass and mid-range a touch. The treble sparkle and slamming sub-bass are amazing with pretty much any cable, though.
> 
> ...



I've come to realize that I prefer a cable that helps an IEM shows it's strength, rather than hide it's faults. With Oriolus+Ares and Hyla+No.5 pairings, it just pushed them towards neutral and made them sound more similar with no exceeding qualities. No longer felt like IEMs that complemented each other.

When I tried the Eos with the Oriolus, it lost a lot of it's character that I liked. Became a bit of a boring all-rounder and had no more emotion in it's vocals. The Eos with the Hyla really shows what the IEM is capable of, and that's it's bass and treble. Even though it's mids thin out, which is not that bad really, it sounds a lot more dynamic with electronic and other bass-centric music. Almost sounds like a TH-900 now, which is really saying something. I bet if I got an 8-wire cable similar to the Eos, it would get closer to it's massive soundstage too. It would probably cost as much as the IEM too lol.


----------



## kidd6454

Wondering if anyone here has a recommendation for a perfect cable for their Noble K10 that improves it's airiness/imaging/depth without adding to the bass?


----------



## Deezel177

kidd6454 said:


> Wondering if anyone here has a recommendation for a perfect cable for their Noble K10 that improves it's airiness/imaging/depth without adding to the bass?



If that's what you're looking for, I'd recommend the PlusSound Silver + Gold. If you want to avoid adding a touch of brightness to the tone, then maybe the Effect Audio Eros II would work as well.


----------



## Ike1985 (Aug 15, 2018)

I'm wonder if my inclination toward a warm sligihtly dark sound with an exceptionally black background and high resolution is worse for my hearing than being someone oriented toward a bright sound.  With a brighter sounding cable I'd more likely to turn down sooner due to well extended highs but with a warm, dark and smooth cable I'm more likely to crank it up because it just sounds so damn good.  It is extremely enjoyable to listen this way, I don't ever go past red on my Hugo2 (sorry for the lack of precision) but it just sounds so damn good to my ears.


----------



## Deezel177

Ike1985 said:


> I'm wonder if my inclination toward a warm sligihtly dark sound with an exceptionally black background and high resolution is worse for my hearing than being someone oriented toward a bright sound.  With a brighter sounding cable I'd more likely to turn down sooner due to well extended highs but with a warm, dark and smooth cable I'm more likely to crank it up because it just sounds so damn good.  It is extremely enjoyable to listen this way, I don't ever go past red on my Hugo2 (sorry for the lack of precision) but it just sounds so damn good to my ears.



I actually often find myself experiencing the opposite. Bass drops exponentially at lower volumes, so with brighter-sounding IEMs, I tend to pump up the volume to fill in the low-end. On the other hand, more balanced IEMs to me require less volume to sound full, rounded and rich.


----------



## rtjoa

My Brimar Collection


----------



## proedros

@Deezel177 @flinkenick is there an under 500$ cable that would significantly improve my Zeus enjoyment (currently using it with the MSxEA Eos cable so the questions is really which cable would make my Eos pairing obsolete ) ?

this is just an hypothetical question , to fool myself that i am not cured yet from this terrible headfi upgrade disease


----------



## bvng3540

rtjoa said:


> My Brimar Collection


Holy crap dude, are you going to share some of those goodies


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> @Deezel177 @flinkenick is there an under 500$ cable that would significantly improve my Zeus enjoyment (currently using it with the MSxEA Eos cable so the questions is really which cable would make my Eos pairing obsolete ) ?
> 
> this is just an hypothetical question , to fool myself that i am not cured yet from this terrible headfi upgrade disease



Probably not.


----------



## SeeSax

Deezel177 said:


> Probably not.



Daniel, your answer is way too sensible for this thread... 

-Collin-


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> Probably not.



the perfect answer , thank you once again ( i know i have asked that before so thanx 2 times)


----------



## bvng3540

Deezel177 said:


> Probably not.


Not really, if you lucky enough you might find a used Leonidas for $499


----------



## proedros

would Leonidas pair well with Zeus XR ? what kind of ciems is it best used with ?


----------



## NaiveSound

I got the plussound tri copper and I love it. 
But I feel it's v shaped and I love my mids.

What is a mid forward cable?


----------



## artpiggo

proedros said:


> would Leonidas pair well with Zeus XR ? what kind of ciems is it best used with ?



matches well with 1964 U12/12t


----------



## audio123

NaiveSound said:


> I got the plussound tri copper and I love it.
> But I feel it's v shaped and I love my mids.
> 
> What is a mid forward cable?


You can try Cross Lambda Stardust. My thoughts on the cable: https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/04/28/cross-lamba-stardust/ 
Cheers!


----------



## proedros

NaiveSound said:


> I got the plussound tri copper and I love it.
> But I feel it's v shaped and I love my mids.
> 
> What is a mid forward cable?



@Deezel177 @flinkenick  what's a good cable for Naive ? he has A18 , propose something before he starts ranting


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> @Deezel177 @flinkenick  what's a good cable for Naive ? he has A18 , propose something before he starts ranting



I already did on the Effect Audio thread.


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> I already did on the Effect Audio thread.



you make Usain Bolt seem slow


----------



## rtjoa

bvng3540 said:


> Holy crap dude, are you going to share some of those goodies


I am going to share it with me, I and myself .
I bought bottom two cables from a headfier member last year and the remaining cables are new bought directly from Brimar.
I am not sure if you still remember me. I messaged you back in April 2017 for your Sony 1Z


----------



## Ike1985

Cant wait til my Han sound Venom gets here.  I miss that totally black, warm, smooth and super detailed sound.  So hard listening to the stock cable.....


----------



## Ike1985

Kozato said:


> You may wish to read about the differences between balanced and unbalanced output here:
> http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/
> 
> In the case of 2.5mm output, which is typically R-/R+/L+/L-, if the shielding of a cable like the Venom is wired to the negative poles of a 2.5mm connector together with the inverted signal, you would most likely be introducing more noise into the signal, since 2.5mm balanced output doesn’t have a dedicated ground.
> ...



I ordered my Venom with dual 3.5's for use with the Chord Hugo2.  The coaxial will be used for grounding.  This is the beat way I can figure to run the Venom with H2 unless using only one 3.5 or grounding in some other port would be better.


----------



## edwardsean

Ike1985 said:


> I ordered my Venom with dual 3.5's for use with the Chord Hugo2.  The coaxial will be used for grounding.  This is the beat way I can figure to run the Venom with H2 unless using only one 3.5 or grounding in some other port would be better.



Did you talk this over with HSA or Music-Sanctuary? I'm not sure if a dual connector is necessary with an unbalanced connection like the Hugo2. The situation that Kozato described was with a balanced design where the shielding has to share a pole with the inverted signal on one side. in a SE 3.5mm/6.3mm you only have the positive signal channels and the ground is already separated on the sleeve. I don't think separating the ground channel of the unbalanced connection from the shield grounding (via a dual connector) would also prevent noise contamination. They are both going to common ground. But, please find out and post back; I would be really curious to know what they say.


----------



## ayang02

edwardsean said:


> Did you talk this over with HSA or Music-Sanctuary? I'm not sure if a dual connector is necessary with an unbalanced connection like the Hugo2. The situation that Kozato described was with a balanced design where the shielding has to share a pole with the inverted signal on one side. in a SE 3.5mm/6.3mm you only have the positive signal channels and the ground is already separated on the sleeve. I don't think separating the ground channel of the unbalanced connection from the shield grounding (via a dual connector) would also prevent noise contamination. They are both going to common ground. But, please find out and post back; I would be really curious to know what they say.



I think you misunderstood the intention of the dual connectors. The signal plug can be single-ended or balanced, the other plug is still used for ground shielding only, only question is where do you plug this in to achieve active shielding.

Reminds me of a story I read about HSA Venom's creation from late last year. A fellow audiophile approached HSA with this idea of making a cable with this dual connector design so that he could use one 2.5 mm balanced connector with his AK DAP and a separate 3.5 mm plug that goes to his Mass Kobo amp to provide a cleaner, darker background. HSA took this idea and eventually created the Venom.

This means you can really plug the grounding plug somewhere that's separate from the signal ground, doesn't have to be the same device as long as active shielding is working. You don't want to introduce more noise by plugging this plug to the wrong place of course.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Hi, anybody has any impression on PW Audio Vanquish Loki?


----------



## bvng3540

ayang02 said:


> I think you misunderstood the intention of the dual connectors. The signal plug can be single-ended or balanced, the other plug is still used for ground shielding only, only question is where do you plug this in to achieve active shielding.
> 
> Reminds me of a story I read about HSA Venom's creation from late last year. A fellow audiophile approached HSA with this idea of making a cable with this dual connector design so that he could use one 2.5 mm balanced connector with his AK DAP and a separate 3.5 mm plug that goes to his Mass Kobo amp to provide a cleaner, darker background. HSA took this idea and eventually created the Venom.
> 
> This means you can really plug the grounding plug somewhere that's separate from the signal ground, doesn't have to be the same device as long as active shielding is working. You don't want to introduce more noise by plugging this plug to the wrong place of course.


from BARRA "It was made for an AK DAP and plugs into the 3.5mm plug for the ground while using the 2.5mm for a balanced signal. You can still use the 2.5mm without the additional shielded ground and it sounds great. The extra plug just dangles in this case. The Venom is my favorite cable to date and sounded good with everything - wish I would have tried the active shielding option on my AK100ii, but never tried given myfascination/preferences for my other daps."


----------



## edwardsean (Aug 16, 2018)

ayang02 said:


> I think you misunderstood the intention of the dual connectors. The signal plug can be single-ended or balanced, the other plug is still used for ground shielding only, only question is where do you plug this in to achieve active shielding.
> 
> Reminds me of a story I read about HSA Venom's creation from late last year. A fellow audiophile approached HSA with this idea of making a cable with this dual connector design so that he could use one 2.5 mm balanced connector with his AK DAP and a separate 3.5 mm plug that goes to his Mass Kobo amp to provide a cleaner, darker background. HSA took this idea and eventually created the Venom.
> 
> This means you can really plug the grounding plug somewhere that's separate from the signal ground, doesn't have to be the same device as long as active shielding is working. You don't want to introduce more noise by plugging this plug to the wrong place of course.



That's interesting. To my mind, the optimum use of the dual connector still is to separate the shielding ground from balanced signal channels, as Kozato said. It's a neat solution provided you have both a 2.5 and 3.5 port on the same DAP. To use the dual connector in an unbalanced 3.5 and connect the second 3.5 shielding ground to different device altogether is really intriguing. Then it wouldn't just be a matter of separating the ground but isolating the ground plane for the shielding completely. I was thinking of a portable DAP situation, but if you're stationary near multiple devices I guess that works nicely.

Edit: As Barra said, the dual connector was originally intended to be plugged into a single balanced device (AK DAPs). Just to clarify, Ike is looking to plug his dual 3.5 connectors into a single unbalanced device (H2). So, I am still curious to know if HSA thinks this would do anything.


----------



## ayang02 (Aug 16, 2018)

edwardsean said:


> That's interesting. To my mind, the optimum use of the dual connector still is to separate the shielding ground from balanced signal channels, as Kozato said. It's a neat solution provided you have both a 2.5 and 3.5 port on the same DAP. To use the dual connector in an unbalanced 3.5 and connect the second 3.5 shielding ground to different device altogether is really intriguing. Then it wouldn't just be a matter of separating the ground but isolating the ground plane for the shielding completely. I was thinking of a portable DAP situation, but if you're stationary near multiple devices I guess that works nicely.
> 
> Edit: As Barra said, the dual connector was originally intended to be plugged into a single balanced device (AK DAPs). Just to clarify, Ike is looking to plug his dual 3.5 connectors into a single unbalanced device (H2). So, I am still curious to know if HSA thinks this would do anything.



I just asked HSA via Facebook to confirm this, the signal end can be balanced or single-ended (3.5/6.5 mm). It is also better to make sure the grounds are separate for the two plugs.

I still think you are confusing the functions of these two plugs. Just think of the ground shielding as an "external part" of the design, the cable would still work with/without the ground plug as confirmed by Barra. It has nothing to do with the connection being balanced or not.


----------



## edwardsean

ayang02 said:


> I just asked HSA via Facebook to confirm this, the signal end can be balanced or single-ended (3.5/6.5 mm). It is also better to make sure the grounds are separate for the two plugs.
> 
> I still think you are confusing the functions of these two plugs. Just think of the ground shielding as an "external part" of the design, the cable would still work with/without the ground plug as confirmed by Barra. It has nothing to do with the connection being balanced or not.



Yes–I understand the purpose of the second plug is purely to drain the ground shielding and has nothing to do with the signal channels-balanced or unbalanced. Yes–the cable can be terminated either way, and the cable works just fine with or without the ground plug. We have only been talking about keeping the noise from the ground shielding out of the signal. 

That is the whole reason why I bring up the balanced/ unbalanced difference. As I have mentioned, in the 4 pole balanced design you have no poles left for the ground shielding to be separate. So if you want to keep out possible shielding noise you have to add a second plug for that ground. In the 3 pole unbalanced design the ground pole is already separate from the signal poles. The same is true for the 5 pole design in the 4.4. Which is why with the 4.4 Venom you no longer need the dual plug to take full advantage of the separate shield grounding (verified by Music-Sanctuary). 

I can see the value in separating the shielding ground from the signal channels. What you are talking about is related but different. Is there value in separating out the shield grounding from the signal grounding (dual 3.5 unbalanced). I have a harder time seeing that because, in the same device, they are both going exactly to the same common ground. If you've confirmed with HSA that there is value in this, I am curious. You mentioned that it is "better." Please share why. I am not confused but I honestly would like to learn.


----------



## Deezel177

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hi, anybody has any impression on PW Audio Vanquish Loki?



I have impressions of the Loki (as well as the other cables in the Vanquish series) on my CanJam SG 2018 article here: https://theheadphonelist.com/canjam-singapore-2018-a-study-in-portable-audio/6/


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Ike1985 said:


> I'm wonder if my inclination toward a warm sligihtly dark sound with an exceptionally black background and high resolution is worse for my hearing than being someone oriented toward a bright sound.  With a brighter sounding cable I'd more likely to turn down sooner due to well extended highs but with a warm, dark and smooth cable I'm more likely to crank it up because it just sounds so damn good.  It is extremely enjoyable to listen this way, I don't ever go past red on my Hugo2 (sorry for the lack of precision) but it just sounds so damn good to my ears.


Ike,

I have a feeling you will really like Warbler Prelude with good silver balanced cable. It has very black background, great technicality and very musical/ soulful vocally, makes you tap your fingers or feet. It has very smooth treble. I think Deezel can comment more on Prelude. Did you try Prelude yet with silver cable Deezel?


----------



## Deezel177

hamhamhamsta said:


> Ike,
> 
> I have a feeling you will really like Warbler Prelude with good silver balanced cable. It has very black background, great technicality and very musical/ soulful vocally, makes you tap your fingers or feet. It has very smooth treble. I think Deezel can comment more on Prelude. Did you try Prelude yet with silver cable Deezel?



I haven’t tried the Prelude with a silver cable yet, but I’ve given it a go with the Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos. It has a leaner, crisper sound that’s silver-like; attenuating the lower-midrange and accentuating the upper-treble. It gives the Prelude a lot more openness, air and clarity whilst maintaning much of the IEM’s musicality. Extension both ways improve as well, adding physicality to the bass and air, background blackness and stage stability up top. If I could add a note to my review, it’d be that the Prelude benefits greatly from aftermarket cables.


----------



## ayang02

edwardsean said:


> That is the whole reason why I bring up the balanced/ unbalanced difference. As I have mentioned, in the 4 pole balanced design you have no poles left for the ground shielding to be separate. So if you want to keep out possible shielding noise you have to add a second plug for that ground. In the 3 pole unbalanced design the ground pole is already separate from the signal poles. The same is true for the 5 pole design in the 4.4. Which is why with the 4.4 Venom you no longer need the dual plug to take full advantage of the separate shield grounding (verified by Music-Sanctuary).
> 
> I can see the value in separating the shielding ground from the signal channels. What you are talking about is related but different. Is there value in separating out the shield grounding from the signal grounding (dual 3.5 unbalanced). I have a harder time seeing that because, in the same device, they are both going exactly to the same common ground. If you've confirmed with HSA that there is value in this, I am curious. You mentioned that it is "better." Please share why. I am not confused but I honestly would like to learn.


I asked a question to HSA whether it is better to make sure the signal vs shielding plug's ground are different and the response I got is a simple "yes". You may try to reach HSA for their explanation if possible. I'm not sure if the physical shielding on the cable plays a bigger part in reducing noise/interference or if the ground shield signal does more in the grand scale of things. From HSA's response, it seems like there is a "preferred" way of connecting things but it isn't critical to enjoy the Venom.


----------



## artpiggo

Snake cable from Brise Audio priced at 400000 YEN has been recently announced.


----------



## Deezel177

artpiggo said:


> Snake cable from Brise Audio priced at 400000 YEN has been recently announced.



I bet it’ll sound perfect paired with the Spiral Ear SE6.


----------



## ayang02

Deezel177 said:


> I bet it’ll sound perfect paired with the Spiral Ear SE6.



The SE6's price has been adjusted, turns out the initial price was a joke, it is now over $3k USD... slightly cheaper than this cable lol


----------



## Deezel177

ayang02 said:


> The SE6's price has been adjusted, turns out the initial price was a joke, it is now over $3k USD... slightly cheaper than this cable lol



I’m aware, which makes this cable all the more... interesting.


----------



## bvng3540

Deezel177 said:


> I’m aware, which makes this cable all the more... interesting.


I would love to see people using that cable with their iem, look like it can outweigh an elephant


----------



## bvng3540 (Aug 17, 2018)

artpiggo said:


> Snake cable from Brise Audio priced at 400000 YEN has been recently announced.


That is nothing compare to this

http://www.chinaglobalmall.com/products/546348212253

The 10 cores is over $7800 us

http://www.chinaglobalmall.com/products/19387830728

Over $9700 us


----------



## natemact

Spoiler


----------



## rtjoa

bvng3540 said:


> That is nothing compare to this
> 
> http://www.chinaglobalmall.com/products/546348212253
> 
> ...


The prices are much higher than retail prices directly from Labkable.
I dont know about samurai 8 wire but 4 wire costs about 900 USD. The Titan 10 wire is about 2500 USD.
I have tested their cables at Can Jam Singapore but I bought Brimar Ultimate as it sounds much better than Titan. Brimar cables are much more expensive than Labkable but it is worth.


----------



## twister6

rtjoa said:


> The prices are much higher than retail prices directly from Labkable.
> I dont know about samurai 8 wire but 4 wire costs about 900 USD. The Titan 10 wire is about 2500 USD.
> I have tested their cables at Can Jam Singapore but I bought Brimar Ultimate as it sounds much better than Titan. Brimar cables are much more expensive than Labkable but it is worth.



That whole website/store is shady; when you scroll down they have Dita Truth replacement cable for US $2.5k w/$85 shipping, while you can buy it from Dita directly for $499.


----------



## bvng3540

twister6 said:


> That whole website/store is shady; when you scroll down they have Dita Truth replacement cable for US $2.5k w/$85 shipping, while you can buy it from Dita directly for $499.


I think it an error, it should be in Chinese Yuan and not usd


----------



## ayang02

Okay this may be stepping into snake oil territory but I gotta ask, has anyone here tried Telos Audio's QBT on their cable and applied their quantum stickers on anything?

I just recently tried both and I'm wrapping my head around how the heck these things work. I do hear a difference in both cases, and I wonder if this is voodoo magic or some massive placebo effect.


----------



## twister6 (Aug 18, 2018)

ayang02 said:


> Okay this may be stepping into snake oil territory but I gotta ask, has anyone here tried Telos Audio's QBT on their cable and applied their quantum stickers on anything?
> 
> I just recently tried both and I'm wrapping my head around how the heck these things work. I do hear a difference in both cases, and I wonder if this is voodoo magic or some massive placebo effect.



It's not a placebo effect, unless you start imagining wider soundstage, deeper bass, sweeter mids, etc.   I just tested and reviewed Sixth Element accessories, and only did that because I had no idea what it's all about and thought it was a snake oil.  But I do hear the difference, have no idea how exactly, but the sound background gets blacker, either if I apply their balls to the cable or use pads/stickers on the dap; sounds like a filter.  Take a closer look at my write up, I approached it in a "scientific" way with different blind and a/b switching tests.  Then, reading about what they use, seems they and probably others with stickers infuse their accessories with rare earth Lanthanides material (period 6 elements from periodic table).  According to quantum mechanics, these elements form some kind of a quantum field that increases negative ions and does some other effect.  I have no idea what/how/why, but I do hear a difference, not exactly night'n'day, but it's there.


----------



## ayang02

twister6 said:


> It's not a placebo effect, unless you start imagining wider soundstage, deeper bass, sweeter mids, etc.   I just tested and reviewed Sixth Element accessories, and only did that because I had no idea what it's all about and thought it was a snake oil.  But I do hear the difference, have no idea how exactly, but the sound background gets blacker, either if I apply their balls to the cable or use pads/stickers on the dap; sounds like a filter.  Take a closer look at my write up, I approached it in a "scientific" way with different blind and a/b switching tests.  Then, reading about what they use, seems they and probably others with stickers infuse their accessories with rare earth Lanthanides material (period 6 elements from periodic table).  According to quantum mechanics, these elements form some kind of a quantum field that increases negative ions and does some other effect.  I have no idea what/how/why, but I do hear a difference, not exactly night'n'day, but it's there.



Well, then yup I'm not imagining things 

Here's my experience with the two Telos service/products:

QBT: this is a cable burn-in service and I chose the 36 hour option for the Toxic Silver Widow 22 cable I've been using for a year. Listening to the cable after the service, I immediately noticed the vocals are not as recessed as before and the sub-bass has been extended. Overall, it's still the same cable but boy have things changed.

Quantum Stickers: I bought two black stickers out of the three available options: red, blue, or black. I applied the stickers on the exterior of the CM pins of my PlusSound Tri-Copper. Right away, I notice the sound stage has expanded and some increase in resolution as well.

I'm kind of blown away by these things right now to be honest.


----------



## chaiyuta (Aug 18, 2018)

@ayang02 @twister6  : What are you talking about? 

I thought there is nobody here playing stickers. I bought 4 Brimar Stickers, also Blue and Black Telos Stickers too. Then I told my friend that what I bought. He asked me to resale some to him. The next step is..... iBasso DX200 Brimar x Telos sticker Mod.









After modding, @tekChansin said he want to buy more and more. Sadly He can't, hehe.


----------



## natemact

While I haven’t used either the Telos or Sixth Element products I have tinkered with Synergistic Research’s more snake oily items. Of relevance here would be their ECT & GCT and both worked as intended, even though I was completely biased to thinking I’d have to makeshift an antenna for the guinea pigged component to better align it’s riboflavins with the third moon of Jupiter. 4.5 stars

Now let’s go and tell our tales to the folks that reside in the Sound Science thread....


----------



## edwardsean

chaiyuta said:


> @ayang02 @twister6  : What are you talking about?
> 
> I thought there is nobody here playing stickers. I bought 4 Brimar Stickers, also Blue and Black Telos Stickers too. Then I told my friend that what I bought. He asked me to resale some to him. The next step is..... iBasso DX200 Brimar x Telos sticker Mod.



I'm curious about this for the DX200 too. How did it sound?

Where can you Sixth Element stickers. I looked on their website and FB page, but I can't find sale information. 

Also, there are a bunch of cheap "quantum stickers" purporting rare earth materials on Amazon for EMF radiation blockage on cell phones. This is not the same thing right?

https://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Radi...34621756&sr=8-4&keywords=quantum+emf+stickers


----------



## bvng3540

ayang02 said:


> Well, then yup I'm not imagining things
> 
> Here's my experience with the two Telos service/products:
> 
> ...


Where can I get some of those sticker


----------



## chaiyuta

@edwardsean : In the market, there are many such kind of magic stickers. Though I buy this kind of stickers only from audio companies, cause they have a long history in their own business. Making snake-oil for get little money is not good trade-off with their own long-period reputation. 

Brimar Sticker : Link 
You can buy it via FB messenger and Paypal.

Telos Sticker : Link
You can buy it via FB messenger and Paypal as well.


----------



## ayang02

bvng3540 said:


> Where can I get some of those sticker





chaiyuta said:


> @edwardsean : In the market, there are many such kind of magic stickers. Though I buy this kind of stickers only from audio companies, cause they have a long history in their own business. Making snake-oil for get little money is not good trade-off with their own long-period reputation.
> 
> Brimar Sticker : Link
> You can buy it via FB messenger and Paypal.
> ...



This is good info, I didn't know Brimar makes stickers. I think Labkable also sells Telos stuff. Does Music Sanctuary also sell these? I see QBT mentioned in @Kozato 's profile.

My advice is to try to buy a few stickers initially and see if you like the change. The 20 pack is a bit pricey to jump into at once.


----------



## bvng3540

ayang02 said:


> This is good info, I didn't know Brimar makes stickers. I think Labkable also sells Telos stuff. Does Music Sanctuary also sell these? I see QBT mentioned in @Kozato 's profile.
> 
> My advice is to try to buy a few stickers initially and see if you like the change. The 20 pack is a bit pricey to jump into at once.


How much are those stickers I don't see the price anywhere


----------



## ayang02 (Aug 19, 2018)

bvng3540 said:


> How much are those stickers I don't see the price anywhere



I spent about $8 per sticker, one on each CM pin so about $16 USD total. The larger pack is 20-count and that's over $130.

Edit: Found out the Telos stickers don't stick too well on curved surfaces, so I've moved the two stickers to the WM1A, near the balanced 4.4 mm output.


----------



## chaiyuta (Aug 18, 2018)

@ayang02 : I don't think music sanc sell these stickers. By the way, you live in Taiwan, don't you? Telos company is in HK. and OC Studio sells Telos stickers. Buying from OC Studio might be convenient for you.

@bvng3540 : Brimar sticker costs 9.9$ per piece. Telos sticker is not far from that too.


----------



## bvng3540

chaiyuta said:


> @ayang02 : I don't think music sanc sell these stickers. By the way, you live in Taiwan, don't you? Telos company is in HK. and OC Studio sells Telos stickers. Buying from OC Studio might be convenient for you.
> 
> @bvng3540 : Brimar sticker costs 9.9$ per piece. Telos sticker is not far from that too.


Is there prove that these stickers improve anything, can you provide the links so I can read it up thanks


----------



## chaiyuta

Sorry I don't have that and I am very hesitate to share my opinion too. First it is off-topic. Second.. it might trigger "Blind Test" drama that I don't want to involve with. You might ask Mr. King Rudi in his fb group and you might see a bit soap drama around there.


----------



## ayang02

chaiyuta said:


> @ayang02 : I don't think music sanc sell these stickers. By the way, you live in Taiwan, don't you? Telos company is in HK. and OC Studio sells Telos stickers. Buying from OC Studio might be convenient for you.
> 
> @bvng3540 : Brimar sticker costs 9.9$ per piece. Telos sticker is not far from that too.



Actually, Telos is from Taiwan so I don't have issues buying here lol


----------



## TYATYA (Aug 19, 2018)

I dont know if those stickers are piezo material made of. In an hi end audio show, I experience the difference with and without a pad made of piezo material.
Presentator put pads on each leg of an power amp, cdp... and play some tracks. Do the same without pads.
I hear and I belive the effect bcs it is undersandable.
Spokenman didnt said well, but my IMO, for loud speakers make vibration of all thing in room. So, those pad absorb vibrate (transfer to electric that will run to ground). Vibration of component is not good for sq bcs it will gennerate noise as Faraday rule.
Kill the vibrate, improve sq.

Back to stickers, who can explain the theory so we can trust in? Test and result should base on result of science.

Sorry my bad English.

Additon : in the rest time of the show when environment is quiter, I test as spokenman talk : use pad to attach on DAP and EARPHONE wire... also improve thosr sq. 
I test, and result is NOTHING. 
Yes, crazy if it helps because I hold my dap (ak sp1000) and earphone shure kse very stable on my hand. Nothing vibrate from my hand and from speakers while they are resting.


----------



## chaiyuta

OMG. I always remembered wrong.. Cause the first time I heard about Telos QBT is from Brimar products, so I guess Telos was in HK. Sorry for that.


----------



## audio123

The Penon Draco looks really interesting. It has a 16 core braided design.


----------



## Geared4me

I had noticed the Penon Draco a while ago when I was looking at their Leo cable. I contacted Penon with a few questions and they were very responsive and helpful. While the Draco does look interesting and I would love to hear it, it looks quite heavy with all of that wire and jade.


----------



## Bosk

I didn't realize Penon's range of higher-end cables are available on a separate store before Googling them, here's a link in case anyone else searched Penonaudio.com in vain. The Draco looks like quite a beast!

https://penon-official.com/product/penon-draco/


----------



## audio123

Bosk said:


> I didn't realize Penon's range of higher-end cables are available on a separate store before Googling them, here's a link in case anyone else searched Penonaudio.com in vain. The Draco looks like quite a beast!
> 
> https://penon-official.com/product/penon-draco/


I think I will try it soon. Will update y'all.


----------



## SeeSax

Another from Rhapsodio just arrived, the Copper Wizard mk2. It's four wires of some sort of copper, with some sort of special shielding, with a very neutral, high-resolution sound. Currently enjoying it on my S-EM9 and I think it's a winning combo. It's a little hard to wrestle into submission though!


 

-Collin-


----------



## Ike1985 (Aug 20, 2018)

ayang02 said:


> I think you misunderstood the intention of the dual connectors. The signal plug can be single-ended or balanced, the other plug is still used for ground shielding only, only question is where do you plug this in to achieve active shielding.
> 
> Reminds me of a story I read about HSA Venom's creation from late last year. A fellow audiophile approached HSA with this idea of making a cable with this dual connector design so that he could use one 2.5 mm balanced connector with his AK DAP and a separate 3.5 mm plug that goes to his Mass Kobo amp to provide a cleaner, darker background. HSA took this idea and eventually created the Venom.
> 
> This means you can really plug the grounding plug somewhere that's separate from the signal ground, doesn't have to be the same device as long as active shielding is working. You don't want to introduce more noise by plugging this plug to the wrong place of course.



So where would you plug the grounded end into the Hugo2? obviously I need the 3.5 for sound thr question is where to ground.  I'd really like to get this resolved. I've put my order on hold until I know the best configuration for the H2.  I'm leaning toward dual 3.5's, the only thing I know for sure is that adapters are bad and I dont want to the default cable since it'll require a 2.5 to 3.5 for signal.  It would seem to me by plugging the ground into the coaxial on H2, you'd just be introducing more noise since that port has music going to it. Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## ayang02

Ike1985 said:


> So where would you plug the grounded end into the Hugo2? obviously I need the 3.5 for sound thr question is where to ground.  I'd really like to get this resolved. I've put my order on hold until I know the best configuration for the H2.  I'm leaning toward dual 3.5's, the only thing I know for sure is that adapters are bad and I dont want to the default cable since it'll require a 2.5 to 3.5 for signal.  It would seem to me by plugging the ground into the coaxial on H2, you'd just be introducing more noise since that port has music going to it. Maybe I'm wrong.



Let me try to ask HSA for you because I don't have a Hugo 2. When you auditioned the Venom, which device did you use? It seems like the best way to figure this out is to play with the Venom and try to plug/unplug the ground plug to different ports on the Hugo2. Maybe even leaving the ground plug un-plugged for comparison.


----------



## edwardsean (Aug 20, 2018)

Ike1985 said:


> So where would you plug the grounded end into the Hugo2? obviously I need the 3.5 for sound thr question is where to ground.  I'd really like to get this resolved. I've put my order on hold until I know the best configuration for the H2.  I'm leaning toward dual 3.5's, the only thing I know for sure is that adapters are bad and I dont want to the default cable since it'll require a 2.5 to 3.5 for signal.  It would seem to me by plugging the ground into the coaxial on H2, you'd just be introducing more noise since that port has music going to it. Maybe I'm wrong.



@Ike1985, I'm not sure if you've reached out to HSA directly, but here is what I know. Again, the dual plug was primarily intended to drain the ground shielding in a–balanced–2.5mm/ 3.5mm configuration. The main point is to keep the RF/EMI noise from the shielding ground out of the (pos/neg) signal channels. The popular 2.5mm balanced connector only has 4 poles. So HSA added a fifth pole via a separate 3.5mm connector as a dedicated, and separate, shield ground.

Since the Hugo2 only has–unbalanced–connectors, the ground is already separated from the signal channels. If you go with the dual 3.5 connectors the only benefit you can achieve is separating the signal ground from the shield ground (of course in a single 3.5 connector they have to share the sleeve). You can plug that into the Hugo2 coax. I don't think it will add noise because you're only using the ground pole.

The question is whether separating the shield ground from the signal ground is actually of benefit. Music Sanctuary responded to me in the affirmative in the email I'm quoting below. However, once you plug both connectors into the same device both grounds are joined to the common ground. You are just joining them in the device instead of at the connector. So, my strong suspicion is that this will only provide a negligible benefit.

The only way that it would truly make a difference is if you don't just–separate–the shield ground but–isolate–the shied ground. That is what was interesting to me about Ayang's post. You could, in theory, plug the shield ground 3.5 connector into an entirely different device altogether. This actually would produce the best result (in theory) of all the configurations because you have a truly isolated ground plane and not just separate grounds going into the common ground plane.

So (in theory) you could buy a second Hugo2 or AK SP1000 (w/ Cu), stack that with your Hugo2, and plug the second connector into that for the best grounding of all (grin). I don't know that does seem like a lot of effort though... then again, I get so easily confused... (grin). (@ayang02, I'm honestly just playing, please don't take any offense).


"If the signal's ground is shared with the shielding ground, the EMI and RF absorbed by the shielding will affect the signal ground at the point of connection. However, the benefit of a dedicated ground in the scenario of single end is not as big as the scenario of balanced signal" (Music-Sanctuary).


----------



## ayang02

edwardsean said:


> "If the signal's ground is shared with the shielding ground, the EMI and RF absorbed by the shielding will affect the signal ground at the point of connection. However, the benefit of a dedicated ground in the scenario of single end is not as big as the scenario of balanced signal" (Music-Sanctuary).



@edwardsean this and what you posted is correct. @Ike1985 I asked HSA about your Hugo 2 situation and it is also possible to omit the dual-connector design and just use a single 3.5 mm plug design where the ground shield shares the same ground as the signal ground. This may be more ideal if your original intention is to use the ground plug on other Hugo 2 ports. It is still a little bit better to isolate the grounds via different devices in your situation, but I think that's too much trouble for the minor potential improvement for all the hassle.

HSA also mentions the Hugo 2's low distortion as a factor and the single 3.5 mm design on the Venom should do pretty well on it.


----------



## edwardsean

ayang02 said:


> @edwardsean this and what you posted is correct. @Ike1985 I asked HSA about your Hugo 2 situation and it is also possible to omit the dual-connector design and just use a single 3.5 mm plug design where the ground shield shares the same ground as the signal ground. This may be more ideal if your original intention is to use the ground plug on other Hugo 2 ports. It is still a little bit better to isolate the grounds via different devices in your situation, but I think that's too much trouble for the minor potential improvement for all the hassle.
> HSA also mentions the Hugo 2's low distortion as a factor and the single 3.5 mm design on the Venom should do pretty well on it.



It is worth clarifying that isolating the shield ground with–different devices–may be worthwhile. This is what is novel about your idea of dual connectors using different devices. I'm not sure if that was even on the minds of HSA when they thought of this. I was joking, but if you are stationary, this would totally work. When I had time with the Venom I only had a DX200+amp8 with me (single 4.4mm output). So, I assumed I couldn't try out the active shielding. It did not occur to me to plug the 3.5 into a second device to try it out!

If @Ike1985 uses his Hugo2 as a desktop DAC and has other devices within reach, this would guarantee the purest shielding. If I were spending the money to get the Venom, and my use was primarily desktop over mobile, I would at least consider it.

Nevertheless, the Venom cable itself is... sublime. It has got to be among the top world class cables. It has everything: soundstage/imaging, air/separation, extension at both ends, natural timbral beauty, warmth and clarity, and, even without the dual connector, a black background.


----------



## artpiggo

I just noticed that In the past, we mostly saw gold plated silver cables as flagship line while in these days, manufacturers are working on using copper and so-called high quality shield as a flagship. Is it a loop cycle of cable technology now. Being copper then silver then add more gold then other valuable metal then come back to copper again.


----------



## Ike1985 (Aug 22, 2018)

Thanks for all the input guys.  I've got an old Rio pmp3 player, those tiny little apple players and old CD players.  Couldnt I just ground into one of them? I dont see why the ground had to be some fancy device.  If thats true I'm thinking one of those tiny little apple players should do perfect and go hardly noticed.  If the grounding device doesnt matter I'll likely go dual 3.5's with the goal of active grounding and avoiding connectors and would be required for Hugo 2 in the standard 2.5/3.5 version


----------



## edwardsean

Ike1985 said:


> Thanks for all the input guys.  I've got an old Rio pmp3 player, those tiny little apple players and old CD players.  Couldnt I just ground into one of them? I dont see why the ground had to be some fancy device.  If thats true I'm thinking one of those tiny little apple players should do perfect and go hardly noticed.  If the grounding device doesnt matter I'll likely go dual 3.5's with the goal of active grounding and avoiding connectors and would be required for Hugo 2 in the standard 2.5/3.5 version



@Ike1985, I was joking about the second Hugo2 or SP1000! I was going to say you could buy a DAVE to ground the unit but it only has a 6.3mm!

Yes, of course you could use any cheap player with a ground to casing. 

I do have to mention just one more time that I'm not sure how much benefit you will be able to detect (vs. imagine). The case of separating shielding from signal in the 2.5mm/3.5mm is more clear.  However, given the cost of the cable, and the novelty of the design, I truly understand you wanting to get all you can out of it. 

I would be so curious to see your results after you take delivery. Please post back if you get the chance.


----------



## artpiggo (Aug 22, 2018)

Maybe in foreseeable future, I believe some people will make audiophile ground box for sale to enthusiastic audiophiles.


----------



## natemact

artpiggo said:


> Maybe in foreseeable future, some people will make audiophile ground box for sale to enthusiastic audiophiles.


Lots of them out there - Telos even has one - problem is $$$$


Spoiler: Completely Unrelated


----------



## artpiggo

natemact said:


> Lots of them out there - Telos even has one - problem is $$$$
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Completely Unrelated



Should be more portable and reasonable also.


----------



## natemact

For someone who didn't know they existed an hour ago you seem a little picky


----------



## Zenith Street

My qdc 3CH should be arriving within the next 2 weeks and I'm looking for an entry-level cable to complement it. I've tried the hansound zen and pw no.5 with the 3SH demo at MS and liked the sound on both, but I prefer the components and feel of the zen so that's the choice that I'm leaning towards now. However, I just discovered that hansound also has the muse ii which is only 20sgd more expensive than the zen and is spc, and its blue colour matches the ocean colour scheme which I chose for my customs, which makes me very interested in them. There's also the ares ii which I have not demo'd but MS doesn't have them any more so I would have to go to another store which I would rather not do. However, if the ares ii is really good for my needs I will reconsider. My priority is on aesthetics, ergonomics, quality components and feel and less on sonic qualities as I do not critically listen that much. However, I would still like to preserve the sound sig of the 3CH which is a mid-centric, intimate and engaging sound which sucks me into the music (which was why I got it in the first place over its 8-driver flagships or flagships from other brands, regardless of price). Any minute improvements in sound are welcome, but my aforementioned priorities come first. Could anyone shed some light on the cables which I mentioned, and if possible, how they would pair with the 3CH? Particularly interested in the muse ii as there is not much info on it and I was only able to find 1 review here. Any help is appreciated, thanks!


----------



## techinblack

Anyone knows how good sounds astell and kern se100?


----------



## Ike1985 (Aug 23, 2018)

I'm going 3.5 signal 3.5 ground thanks guys.  It's been a helluva debate and more complicated than I'd ever imagined but I believe this is the best configuration for Hugo2 and similar unbalanced sources.

I wonder if some of the power cleaning products that ifi makes could be used to ground the 3.5 ground of the venom.  They've got a thing called AC Purifier and a few other products that at a glance might work and they're inexpensive.

If not, what are some cheap players I could use.


----------



## ayang02

Ike1985 said:


> I'm going 3.5 signal 3.5 ground thanks guys.  It's been a helluva debate and more complicated than I'd ever imagined but I believe this is the best configuration for Hugo2 and similar unbalanced sources.
> 
> I wonder if some of the power cleaning products that ifi makes could be used to ground the 3.5 ground of the venom.  They've got a thing called AC Purifier and a few other products that at a glance might work and they're inexpensive.
> 
> If not, what are some cheap players I could use.



I think you can worry about that after you try the dual 3.5 plugs on the Hugo 2. Now you have the flexibility to try a bunch of things, I do look forward to hear back from you


----------



## IgeNeLL

I would like to share some picture about brimar grand master cable, such an awesome cable.


----------



## SLC1966

SeeSax said:


> Another from Rhapsodio just arrived, the Copper Wizard mk2. It's four wires of some sort of copper, with some sort of special shielding, with a very neutral, high-resolution sound. Currently enjoying it on my S-EM9 and I think it's a winning combo. It's a little hard to wrestle into submission though!
> 
> 
> 
> -Collin-


Handsome big boy cable!  What are your impressions after a week of wrestling with it?


----------



## SeeSax

SLC1966 said:


> Handsome big boy cable!  What are your impressions after a week of wrestling with it?



Haven't had a ton of time, but very high resolution, punchy and articulate bass, forward mids and a little bit darker on the trenle. Perfect with my Dita Dream. Still wrestling it though


----------



## SLC1966

SeeSax said:


> Haven't had a ton of time, but very high resolution, punchy and articulate bass, forward mids and a little bit darker on the trenle. Perfect with my Dita Dream. Still wrestling it though


As long as you stay out of the mud!


----------



## artpiggo

Trying out 2-head design cable named "VK" with fitear 335dwsr and dx200 amp1. Very good details and black background.  So happy with this setup.


----------



## ezekiel77

I received this the other day for an upcoming review. Was planning to do a full reveal when the accompanying IEM arrives next month, but there's no ignoring the extravagant packaging here.

Presenting the Acoustune ARC13, made of 4 wires of OFC copper, and some nice sheathing.

 
 
 
The Pentaconn jack is just straight up sexy.


----------



## tim0chan

ezekiel77 said:


> I received this the other day for an upcoming review. Was planning to do a full reveal when the accompanying IEM arrives next month, but there's no ignoring the extravagant packaging here.
> 
> Presenting the Acoustune ARC13, made of 4 wires of OFC copper, and some nice sheathing.
> 
> ...


first sound impressions?
Also, i found the 2 pin variants already


----------



## ezekiel77

tim0chan said:


> first sound impressions?
> Also, i found the 2 pin variants already


Soon I hope. The only MMCX IEM I have now is the FH5. I'll probably test it out this weekend when I have the time.



One more. After finding the best synergy for the Linum SuperBax with Gemini, I sent the cable to Music Sanctuary and basically asked them for the best 4.4mm jack they had. I thought it'd be the popular Furutech carbon fibre, but they recommended one from Nobunaga Labs, slightly pricier than the Furutech, and made of gold-plated OFC. Aesthetically it matches the rest of the cable too, so I went for it. It came back yesterday.



Time for some listening!


----------



## EagleWings (Aug 30, 2018)

Just wanted to share some impressions on the Silver-Fi R1 cable. R1 is the first level model in Silver-Fi’s Reference Series. Although it is the first level model in the Reference series, it is a high-resolution, premium cable with a $1000 price tag. I will go into the details about the physicality of the cable in my review. But just some quick thoughts; this is not a cable meant for use when out-and-about, as it is a stiff and wide cable. I didn’t have much trouble using it on my desk or couch though. As for microphonics, as long as you make sure the cable is hugging the ear, you shouldn’t have any microphonics. But because it is an unwieldy cable, achieving that can be quite tricky. And the cable is also not too light. So if you don’t get the right fit, it may be tugging your IEM, which is not good for comfort, nor for the 2 pin connectors.

As you would have interpreted, ergonomics is not this cable’s forte. But where this cable truly shines is, in sound quality. R1 can be considered an epitome of balance between technicality and tonality. But if your definition of technicality involves, lean note structure, lots of air, sparkle and microdetails, then we may not be on the same page. But that shouldn’t be misinterpreted as lack of resolution, as R1 is a high resolution cable. As it is not difficult to come across high resolution in Hi-Fi cables these days, what steals your attention more on the R1 is its tonality. The tone of the cable falls on the slightly warm side of neutral. But calling this cable warm may be misleading, as it is really a lack of brightness in the upper-mids & treble that results in the perception of the slightly warm tone. But if you are coming from a bright sounding cable, I wouldn't be surprised if you call the R1 a warm cable. The tone of the cable is further supplemented with a full, yet transparent mid-range. With a correct tone and high levels of resolution and transparency, the cable is able to reproduce realistic and accurate timbre.

Between the 3 frequency ranges, bass and treble are slightly controlled, which might sometimes put the mid-range in the spot-light. But this is not a mid-centric cable. It’s just that bass and treble don’t draw too much attention like on many portable gears that we come across these days. R1 produces a very tight and clean bass. While its low-end extension is good, it doesn’t try to display too much power in its sub-bass. It makes that sacrifice to create the right tone. But that doesn’t mean, the bass is focused on the mid or upper bass either. It is just very linear across the bass frequencies without any single part drawing too much attention. As the cable has a clean bass department, the cable doesn’t suffer from any warmth veiling the presentation. As there is no warmth to counter, the treble is tuned to be controlled and smooth. Its upper treble may be slightly toned down, yet its overall resolution is quite high. As a result, it is a forgiving cable. The mid-range really is the star of the show. With a fuller note structure and smooth tone, R1 creates a very palpable mid-range. So any genre that involves acoustic instruments or vocals is going to shine on this cable. On the flip side, if all you listen to is synthetic or electronic type of music, you probably can skip this cable, for a more ergonomic high resolution cable. Although it is smooth, the mid-range is very articulated and has very good micro-dynamics, and so the detail retrieval is very good.

Apart from tone, transparency and timbre, the cable also nails the presentation aspect. There is no single aspect in its presentation that made me think ‘I wish it was slightly better or different’. For starters, the placement is neutral, being neither forward nor backward. Then there is the very spacious stage with very good depth and height and not just width. While I wouldn’t call the size of the stage as monstrous, it carries a nice amount of air that helps provide a holographic feel. The instrument to stage size ratio is also perfect, so you don't end with neither an empty stage nor a congested stage. If you are someone who prefers a small instrument images in a large stage canvas, this cable may not be your cup of tea, as R1 separates instruments using its resolution and layering instead of lean/small instruments. And then to finish it off, you get a very black background with high level of precision in its imaging. Like I said, this cable is just an epitome of balance between technicality and tonality.


----------



## PinkyPowers

Deezel177 said:


> In tone, the Thor II is actually clearer than the Ares II, because of a slight rise in the overall treble region. But it gains body, warmth and euphony from an elevated mid-bass. The Ares II has a warmer timbre, but a lower-treble peak gives it an articulation that you'd rarely find in copper cables like the No. 5. If you're looking for a rich and bodied presentation with a clear tone (or more _light_ in the stage), the Thor II would be more suitable. On the other hand, if you want a warmer tinge to instruments paired with more bite, then the Ares II is the one to get.



Yeah, pretty much what Dan says.


----------



## Bosk

EagleWings said:


> Just wanted to share some impressions on the Silver-Fi R1 cable. R1 is the first level model in Silver-Fi’s Reference Series. Although it is the first level model in the Reference series, it is a high-resolution, premium cable with a $1000 price tag. I will go into the details about the physicality of the cable in my review. But just some quick thoughts; this is not a cable meant for use when out-and-about, as it is a stiff and wide cable. I didn’t have much trouble using it on my desk or couch though. As for microphonics, as long as you make sure the cable is hugging the ear, you shouldn’t have any microphonics. But because it is an unwieldy cable, achieving that can be quite tricky. And the cable is also not too light. So if you don’t get the right fit, it may be tugging your IEM, which is not good for comfort, nor for the 2 pin connectors.
> 
> As you would have interpreted, ergonomics is not this cable’s forte. But where this cable truly shines is, in sound quality. R1 can be considered an epitome of balance between technicality and tonality. But if your definition of technicality involves, lean note structure, lots of air, sparkle and microdetails, then we may not be on the same page. But that shouldn’t be misinterpreted as lack of resolution, as R1 is a high resolution cable. As it is not difficult to come across high resolution in Hi-Fi cables these days, what steals your attention more on the R1 is its tonality. The tone of the cable falls on the slightly warm side of neutral. But calling this cable warm may be misleading, as it is really a lack of brightness in the upper-mids & treble that results in the perception of the slightly warm tone. But if you are coming from a bright sounding cable, I wouldn't be surprised if you call the R1 a warm cable. The tone of the cable is further supplemented with a full, yet transparent mid-range. With a correct tone and high levels of resolution and transparency, the cable is able to reproduce realistic and accurate timbre.
> 
> ...


Awesome review EagleWings, you did a superb job of articulating the cable's strengths and weaknesses. It would be curious to know how much sonic difference the cotton insulation makes, as opposed to the plastics other cable makers use.

There was a time when a $1000 cable would've been scoffed at but now almost seems mid-range and quite reasonable.


----------



## bvng3540

Bosk said:


> There was a time when a $1000 cable would've been scoffed at but now almost seems mid-range and quite reasonable.


Because we tolerate them to sell for that much


----------



## Deezel177

Speaking of mid-range and quite reasonable...

*Effect Audio Bespoke 8-wire Ares II - The Bronze Serpent*


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> Speaking of mid-range and quite reasonable...
> 
> *Effect Audio Bespoke 8-wire Ares II - The Bronze Serpent*
> 
> ​



great writeup Daniel , once more.

one (classic) question - would this cable be an upgrade to my Eos cable (paired with Zeus XR) ?

i see you recommend it for XR , how does it pair next to Eos ?


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> great writeup Daniel , once more.
> 
> one (classic) question - would this cable be an upgrade to my Eos cable (paired with Zeus XR) ?
> 
> i see you recommend it for XR , how does it pair next to Eos ?



Thanks, man! I actually did compare it to the Eos, though I didn't include it since the Eos is discontinued. They share similar hallmarks: Added mid-bass punch, a neutral lower-midrange (for a cleaner, more transparent vocal), vibrant upper-mids and a light lift along the treble. The Eos's soundstage is smaller; height is similar, but the 8-wire Ares II is a tad wider and a lot deeper. To be more specific, layers that are more distant in the mix sound better resolved with the Ares II than the Eos; the Ares II's resolution spans further along the z-axis; most likely because of a slightly blacker background. As a result, the Ares II's stage is more holographic, while the Eos's is a _bit _flatter by comparison. Although the Eos performs exceptionally well in this regard (*especially *at its price), the 8-wire Ares II simply wins out because of its innate physical construct. The Eos also has a brighter treble - with more bite, crispness and clarity - while the Ares II is a bit more laid-back, though not by much. In terms of overall energy, I'd say the Eos is more immediately energetic, dynamic and contrast-y because of its treble, while the Ares II is ever-so-slightly more laidback with better harmonic resolution (the _body_ of the note; not just the articulation or detail).

The 8-wire Ares II is an upgrade in overall performance, but if I'd already owned an Eos, I honestly wouldn't make the jump. A performance gap is there, but it doesn't justify the price of a whole new 2-wire Ares II in my opinion. If you had a stock 4-wire Ares II, I'd certainly implore you to send it in for an upgrade to 8-wire. But for me, I'd rather stick with the Eos and see what else comes around.


----------



## proedros

@Deezel177 thanx again , my friend

tbh , Eos is just fine but i had to ask you anyway - what's eating my brain these last few days is WM1Z but i was thinking again that it costs 3x the wm1a price and i can not even remotely justify paying for one (yet)

and i don't expect to see any used wm1z around the 1500$ ballpark anytime soon (they now sell between 2-2.3K) so wm1a will be (maybe next year at the 2-year mark i may upgrade)


----------



## 62ftsbot

I find effect audio Thor to be an interesting cable for a silver type cable. Anyone have experience with it and can recommend a similar cable? I find most other type silver cables I have tried to sound different like more separation spread out sound and I find Thor to be almost having some copper like sound and even smoother musical quality to it over analytical. I specifically have Thor+ version


----------



## ctaxxxx

62ftsbot said:


> I find effect audio Thor to be an interesting cable for a silver type cable. Anyone have experience with it and can recommend a similar cable? I find most other type silver cables I have tried to sound different like more separation spread out sound and I find Thor to be almost having some copper like sound and even smoother musical quality to it over analytical. I specifically have Thor+ version



From some reviews I've read, the Han Sound Agni is supposed to be really warm for a silver cable.


----------



## 62ftsbot

ah, very nice i will have to check them out. Thanks!


----------



## IgeNeLL

rtjoa said:


> I would like to share my upcoming Brimar cables: Omni King 10 wire (left) and Ultimate 10 wire (middle and right) with Pentaconn OFC 4.4.mm
> 
> Omni King is a silver gold cable and Ultimate is silver gold with copper gold cable.


Are you fan of Brimar


----------



## rtjoa

IgeNeLL said:


> Are you fan of Brimar


Yes but why sad face? Do you have bad experience with their cables?


----------



## IgeNeLL

rtjoa said:


> Yes but why sad face? Do you have bad experience with their cables?


No, I'm in liking for them, instead :3


----------



## iron2k

In case someone is selling an Effect Audio Eros II o Thor II (2pin, 2.5mm or pentaconn), i'm looking for those or some other brands in Silver or Copper-Silver Hybrid


----------



## papa_mia

rtjoa said:


> Yes but why sad face? Do you have bad experience with their cables?


I'm a fan of Brimar too, but my kidney "is" not.


----------



## chaiyuta

Whoever is a fan of brimar cable, raise your cable up!!


----------



## tim0chan

chaiyuta said:


> Whoever is a fan of brimar cable, raise your cable up!!


Your opinion on the prince please?


----------



## rtjoa

chaiyuta said:


> Whoever is a fan of brimar cable, raise your cable up!!


Interesting. OC studio 2 pin on Brimar cable. I have OC studio AUX and MK5.5 cables. They are good cables with affordable price.


----------



## chaiyuta

@tim0chan @rtjoa : This cable was made cause I begged brimar to do it. For the default specs (Oyaide 2-pin and Oyaide 2.5 mm plug), I find that pairing with my U8, its tonality is go toward bright-side and I hear sibilant, though the speed is very snappy, bass can dive deep and very short decay. I sent a gold-plated TeCu 2-pin and a Gold plated Copper plug to make my cable. Cause I think it will alter its tonality goes toward warm side, and fix the fitting issues. 

my U8 2-pin socket doesn't not fit well with Oyaide 2-pin (some old is very loose while some new is too fit). I find that OC 2-pin has more reliable in term of fitting. A 4.4 mm plug is my issues too. I primarily use iBasso AMP4 module and its 4.4 mm jack is not a Pentaconn product. Once a 4.4 genuine Pentaconn plug is inserted, One side (Left-side of sound) is always repetitously disconnect. This is the false from AMP4 module. However, I find that mostly 4.4mm plug made by Japanese factory such as Bispa, Nobunaga Labs, Nideon, Cross Lambda etc. all have no this fitting issue. For AMP8 module, a 4.4 mm genuine Pentaconn plug works fine without flaw cause its 4.4mm jack already utilize a genuine 4.4 mm Pentaconn jack. In conclusion, these issues come from my stuff side. 

By the way, there is The Prince 12x too. I heard from someone that the 12x is more SQ improvement to the 8x. the 12x is warmer tonality, thicker vocal and bass, futhermore wider and deeper soundstage.

Note : 4.4 mm plug and jack are JEITA standard. Pentaconn is the first brand who produce 4.4 mm plug & jack.


----------



## IgeNeLL

chaiyuta said:


> Whoever is a fan of brimar cable, raise your cable up!!


Does it pure silver ? haha


----------



## chaiyuta

@IgeNeLL : No, it is silver plated copper.


----------



## fnsnyc

does anyone here have experience with the whiplash cable for the HD800?


----------



## twister6

fnsnyc said:


> does anyone here have experience with the whiplash cable for the HD800?



You have to be more specific, which whiplash cable/wire are you referring to. Also, keep in mind, Whiplash/Craig is no longer in business.


----------



## fnsnyc

The TWAU or TWAG v3.


----------



## ayang02

I thought Whiplash is now part of Brimar. Not sure if the Whiplash cables are the same as before.


----------



## IgeNeLL

fnsnyc said:


> does anyone here have experience with the whiplash cable for the HD800?


Currently, whiplash have been swallowed by Brimar, which mean currently we have Brimar/Wishplash.
When I go to the under-constructing website now, I can see the product of brimar and whiplash still separated, the price is not available yet >


----------



## EagleWings

Just some thoughts on the Silver-Fi IEM-X:

Couldn't spend as much time with the X as I did with the R1. In terms of wire count, X is basically the half of R1. R1 is a wire cable, while the X is a 4 wire cable. Due to the halving of the wire count, the ergonomics of the X is significantly better than that of the R1, but still far from the ergonomics of most other 4 and 8 Wire cables out there. As a result, the price of the X ($500) is also only half of that of R1. Since it was easy to make the X hug over my ears, I didn't run into any microphonic issues.

As for the the sound, I was able to detect a recurring theme between the R1 and X, in terms of the treble tuning and overall tonality. But the 2 cables are different, when it comes to the overall signature and the presentation. Compared to the slightly mid-centric signature of the R1, X is more neutral. X's presentation is also more neutrally placed in direct comparison to the slightly forward placement of the R. Although the R1 pulls ahead of the X in departments such as resolution, precision and finesse, the difference is not significant. In fact, the more neutral sound of the X, makes it a more versatile cable than the R1.

The X is not just relatively neutral to the R1, but is a neutral sounding cable in terms of its overall signature. But the tone of the cable is similar to that of the R1, which is neutral-warm, due to the similarly smooth upper-mids and treble. Because the mids are not as pronounced as on the R1, the bass on the X is a given a chance to shine, not in terms of quantity, but in terms of quality and impact. While I wouldn't say the bass is focused on the mid-bass, between the sub-bass and mid-bass, X's bass has less focus on the sub-bass. So the X is not exactly made for powerful rumbly bass, but the mid-bass displays good impact, while remaining very tight and controlled. While it offers sufficient body and warmth to the mids, it isn't the warmth from the bass that gives the warm tone of the cable.

The midrange is sufficiently full, but not as full and forward as on the R1. Regardless of the difference in the mid-range between the 2 cables, similar to the R1, X is also a cable with a focus on tonality over technicality. So the treble falls on the smooth and forgiving side. I was very appreciative of the presentation of the R1 and the X gets the same levels of kudos. In terms of stage dimensions, airiness, imaging and placement, there is nothing to fault. The depth and layering is not on the same level as the R1, but that is to be expected given the $500 price point.

X vs Ares II:
In the bass, Ares has a stronger sub-bass and the bass in general lacks the quality and control of the X. The level of impact in the mid-bass is similar, but the Ares displays better sub-bass power. The lower-mids on the Ares is thicker, but the center mids are not as full as on the X. As a result, the X presentation of the instruments and vocals is more transparent and presents a more accurate timbre. The warmth and thickness in the lower mids also makes the presentation less airy on the Ares. The treble is smoother on the X but more resolving. In the technical department, X is literally better than the Ares is all departments (separation, layering, staging, imaging). Overall Ares II is a nice entry level upgrade cable. But the X is a notch above the Ares in terms of the performance and also has a better tone.

A more fair comparison would have been the X vs Eros II 8W. Because, both cables not only belong to the same price range (X - $500, Eros 8 - $600), but both are very neutral sounding cables. Unfortunately I had packed the Eros 8, as I was moving, and I couldn't find it in time for a comparison.


----------



## tim0chan

EagleWings said:


> Just some thoughts on the Silver-Fi IEM-X:
> 
> Couldn't spend as much time with the X as I did with the R1. In terms of wire count, X is basically the half of R1. R1 is a wire cable, while the X is a 4 wire cable. Due to the halving of the wire count, the ergonomics of the X is significantly better than that of the R1, but still far from the ergonomics of most other 4 and 8 Wire cables out there. As a result, the price of the X ($500) is also only half of that of R1. Since it was easy to make the X hug over my ears, I didn't run into any microphonic issues.
> 
> ...


Any thoughts on how easy it is to order?


----------



## EagleWings

tim0chan said:


> Any thoughts on how easy it is to order?



I am sorry, I am unable to offer my thoughts on the ease of ordering, as the R1 and X were review loaners. A friend of mine said Sezai is prompt with his communications. This is the email to reach Sezai: info@silverfi.com


----------



## EagleWings

A small update: Sezai is in his mountain house and he asked me to share his gmail address, which is currently more accessible to him: saktanbers@gmail.com


----------



## Wyville (Sep 12, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> A small update: Sezai is in his mountain house and he asked me to share his gmail address, which is currently more accessible to him: saktanbers@gmail.com


Okay, slight warning because I have a very vivid imagination, but this just gave me an image of Grandmaster Sezai at his monastic mountain retreat gently meditating on the best ways to control silver molecules to perform feats of sonic excellence. 

Definitely need to try his cables soon, but for now the Eros II 8-wire is making my Phantom very happy.


----------



## Bosk

Wyville said:


> Okay, slight warning because I have a very vivid imagination, but this just gave me an image of Grandmaster Sezai at is monastic mountain retreat gently meditating on the best ways to control silver molecules to perform feats of sonic excellence.


Does he have a white beard and a fondness for flowing robes? I instantly thought of this for some reason.


----------



## Ike1985 (Sep 12, 2018)

Finally pulled the trigger on the venom with dual 3.5's, I know I discussed it earlier but I didn't actually put money down until now.  With such a cable coming from so far away and being so expensive, I wanted to get it right the first time and that required a lot of thinking of possibilities.  To me being a user of the Hugo2 (I'll know I'll probably get Hugo3 as well) and Chord's never gonna implement a balanced design because it's unnecessary per their DAC's therefore I went dual 3.5's, one for ground and one for signal.   I'll either ground into the coaxial on H2 or I'll find a very small cheap portable player to ground into.  I've got a Rio pmp3 device, old school metal and white apple ipod and those little apple players I could use(or modify and use if necessary) since they're just collecting dust.  To me, the biggest way to handicap such a cable would be to order it 2.5 and then use an adapter because additional components in the signal path will lower sound quality.  Now just gotta wait about 4-5 weeks...

Oh and if anyone can tell me how to modify the aforementioned players in order to ground them(if this is even the right approach to take) or if let me know if they already are, unsure about this stuff, never ventured into this field.  Also looking into some IFI signal purification stuff as a possibility, they've got some active grounding stuff I might be able to ground into.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Deezel177 said:


> In tone, the Thor II is actually clearer than the Ares II, because of a slight rise in the overall treble region. But it gains body, warmth and euphony from an elevated mid-bass. The Ares II has a warmer timbre, but a lower-treble peak gives it an articulation that you'd rarely find in copper cables like the No. 5. If you're looking for a rich and bodied presentation with a clear tone (or more _light_ in the stage), the Thor II would be more suitable. On the other hand, if you want a warmer tinge to instruments paired with more bite, then the Ares II is the one to get.



Any thoughts on how these compare to the Lionheart? Been listening to the Thor II for a few days now with the Oriolus mk2 and, while I love that mid-bass warmth/impact and the clear and smooth treble response, I feel the vocals still aren't as full as I would like them. A neutral tone, kind of similar to when I paired with the Eos. Seems I prefer the warmer vocal timbre(?) you mentioned for the Oriolus. 

My last resort is to upgrade to the Lionheart (smoother supposedly), or return to the Ares, but with the 8-wire (since I like the synergy the most with the II+ I have).


----------



## Barra

Ike1985 said:


> Finally pulled the trigger on the venom with dual 3.5's, I know I discussed it earlier but I didn't actually put money down until now.  With such a cable coming from so far away and being so expensive, I wanted to get it right the first time and that required a lot of thinking of possibilities.  To me being a user of the Hugo2 (I'll know I'll probably get Hugo3 as well) and Chord's never gonna implement a balanced design because it's unnecessary per their DAC's therefore I went dual 3.5's, one for ground and one for signal.   I'll either ground into the coaxial on H2 or I'll find a very small cheap portable player to ground into.  I've got a Rio pmp3 device, old school metal and white apple ipod and those little apple players I could use(or modify and use if necessary) since they're just collecting dust.  To me, the biggest way to handicap such a cable would be to order it 2.5 and then use an adapter because additional components in the signal path will lower sound quality.  Now just gotta wait about 4-5 weeks...
> 
> Oh and if anyone can tell me how to modify the aforementioned players in order to ground them(if this is even the right approach to take) or if let me know if they already are, unsure about this stuff, never ventured into this field.  Also looking into some IFI signal purification stuff as a possibility, they've got some active grounding stuff I might be able to ground into.


Wow, nice purchase. That is the best cable I have heard to date and was wonderful with my hugo 2 > a18 setup. However, I never actually tried the additional shielding instead opting to just let it hang free. May have to try it with my AK next round to see if it does any improvements, but to downgrade to the AK from the H2 would likely offset any advantage.


----------



## Ike1985 (Sep 12, 2018)

Barra said:


> Wow, nice purchase. That is the best cable I have heard to date and was wonderful with my hugo 2 > a18 setup. However, I never actually tried the additional shielding instead opting to just let it hang free. May have to try it with my AK next round to see if it does any improvements, but to downgrade to the AK from the H2 would likely offset any advantage.



Glad you liked it as well, it is something special and worthy of the name Venom. Awesome that we had the same exact setup too!  I did some HD listening with our setup but honestly streamed MP3s on Bandcamp were damn impressive by themselves

Have you dabbled in digital cables?  Other than EMI/RF shielding I dont see much of a point, not a believer but I havent heard them either.  Currently just using a $7 amazon microb to usbc cable for H2.


----------



## Barra

Digital is harder to advise. Using a Sony to drive it so they cost more with the WM1a adapter to USB. I did particularly like a black dragon H1 adapter back in the day that showed improvement. Optically, my glass is a large step up from the plastic cables. I am optically attached to my PC to drive my H2 to my ZDS when I use it for my desktop.


----------



## EagleWings

I have tried 2 digital cables with my H2. AQ Cinnamon and the Curious Cable Hugo Link. The Hugo Link costs almost twice as much as the Cinnamon. Both cables brought about improvements in similar aspects, such as a more spacious stage, decompressed instrument and vocal images, better timbre, improved perception of reverbs, better imaging and a smoother treble. These difference were more easily discernible on the Hugo link than the Cinnamon. But I preferred the mids of the Cinnamon over the Hugo link, as it was fuller. Although I say discernible, these differences are minute in nature. 

Btw, thanks to an anonymous headfi member here for lending me the Curious Cable on a brief loan.


----------



## Deezel177

ctaxxxx said:


> Any thoughts on how these compare to the Lionheart? Been listening to the Thor II for a few days now with the Oriolus mk2 and, while I love that mid-bass warmth/impact and the clear and smooth treble response, I feel the vocals still aren't as full as I would like them. A neutral tone, kind of similar to when I paired with the Eos. Seems I prefer the warmer vocal timbre(?) you mentioned for the Oriolus.
> 
> My last resort is to upgrade to the Lionheart (smoother supposedly), or return to the Ares, but with the 8-wire (since I like the synergy the most with the II+ I have).



I'll compare the two when I visit Effect Audio's HQ in a week-and-a-half.


----------



## Ike1985

EagleWings said:


> I have tried 2 digital cables with my H2. AQ Cinnamon and the Curious Cable Hugo Link. The Hugo Link costs almost twice as much as the Cinnamon. Both cables brought about improvements in similar aspects, such as a more spacious stage, decompressed instrument and vocal images, better timbre, improved perception of reverbs, better imaging and a smoother treble. These difference were more easily discernible on the Hugo link than the Cinnamon. But I preferred the mids of the Cinnamon over the Hugo link, as it was fuller. Although I say discernible, these differences are minute in nature.
> 
> Btw, thanks to an anonymous headfi member here for lending me the Curious Cable on a brief loan.



If the anonymous user is here I'd love to see if I could hear a difference with the Curious cable as well.  = )


----------



## Deezel177

Happy Sunday, everyone! 

*Effect Audio Janus Dynamic - The Phantom of the Opera*

​


----------



## koven

I'm heading to Bangkok and Seoul soon for two weeks, does anyone have recommendations for shops that carry a wide variety of cables (and IEMs)? Looking to pick something up while I'm out there.


----------



## Deezel177

koven said:


> I'm heading to Bangkok and Seoul soon for two weeks, does anyone have recommendations for shops that carry a wide variety of cables (and IEMs)? Looking to pick something up while I'm out there.



There’s BKK Audio in Bangkok and they carry tons of brands including Empire Ears, Custom Art, Vision Ears, LEAR and more.


----------



## koven

Deezel177 said:


> There’s BKK Audio in Bangkok and they carry tons of brands including Empire Ears, Custom Art, Vision Ears, LEAR and more.



Awesome, thank you. Look forward to trying stuff that never make it to US CanJams..


----------



## chaiyuta

koven said:


> I'm heading to Bangkok and Seoul soon for two weeks, does anyone have recommendations for shops that carry a wide variety of cables (and IEMs)? Looking to pick something up while I'm out there.


Thailand : Mungkong Gadget, BKK Audio, Iconic Music, soundproofbros, Zoundaholic
Korea : Soundcat


----------



## proedros (Sep 16, 2018)

EagleWings said:


> Just some thoughts on the Silver-Fi IEM-X:
> 
> Couldn't spend as much time with the X as I did with the R1. In terms of wire count, X is basically the half of R1. R1 is a wire cable, while the X is a 4 wire cable. Due to the halving of the wire count, the ergonomics of the X is significantly better than that of the R1, but still far from the ergonomics of most other 4 and 8 Wire cables out there. As a result, the price of the X ($500) is also only half of that of R1. Since it was easy to make the X hug over my ears, I didn't run into any microphonic issues.
> 
> ...



great post/impressions

woke up today with a nagging feeling to upgrade my Zeus XR cables (eos/pw5) and i need something under 500$

X seem like a nice option , problem is that all these are blind buys and i need to be super extra perceptive here

edit : i just noticed that those 2 cables are named X and R(1) and i am looking a cable for a ciem named XR 

weird synchronicity.


----------



## EagleWings (Sep 16, 2018)

proedros said:


> great post/impressions
> 
> woke up today with a nagging feeling to upgrade my Zeus XR cables (eos/pw5) and i need something under 500$
> 
> X seem like a nice option , problem is that all these are blind buys and i need to be super extra perceptive here



Lol. You were quick to correct your post from R1 to X. For the Zeus I'd definitely recommend the X over the R1.


----------



## koven

chaiyuta said:


> Thailand : Mungkong Gadget, BKK Audio, Iconic Music, soundproofbros, Zoundaholic
> Korea : Soundcat



Noted thanks a lot!


----------



## honeyjjack

koven said:


> I'm heading to Bangkok and Seoul soon for two weeks, does anyone have recommendations for shops that carry a wide variety of cables (and IEMs)? Looking to pick something up while I'm out there.


South Korea
1910shop- pw audio, rhapsodio, and less known brands (small brand but carries pw audio which no other shop does)

zound- brimar, 64 audio, jh audio, ue westone (does lots of customs)

scheherazade- empire ears, audeze, final, aaw, effect audi, custom art, lime ears, hum, hidition, oriolus, plussound, dhc, audio technica, fostex, shure (largest collection of iems, headphones and cables)

earphone shop- focal, hd820 ( carries alot of lower end iems under $1000)


----------



## aaf evo

After going from the Janus D to an Ares II it really puts into perspective the sheer size of the Janus, that cable is a monster. I'm actually really liking the 4 wire set up again. It makes my CIEMs feel like they're non-existent whereas the Janus would weigh them down a bit and did cause some slight discomfort.
Now I'm unsure if I should stick with my regular Ares II or upgrade to the 8 wire? I know the Janus D is thicker than other 8 wire cables due to the 24 AWG wire but it does have me second guessing.

Thoughts? Maybe another cable recommendation?


----------



## kubig123

aaf evo said:


> After going from the Janus D to an Ares II it really puts into perspective the sheer size of the Janus, that cable is a monster. I'm actually really liking the 4 wire set up again. It makes my CIEMs feel like they're non-existent whereas the Janus would weigh them down a bit and did cause some slight discomfort.
> Now I'm unsure if I should stick with my regular Ares II or upgrade to the 8 wire? I know the Janus D is thicker than other 8 wire cables due to the 24 AWG wire but it does have me second guessing.
> 
> Thoughts? Maybe another cable recommendation?


The PW Audio 1960 2 wire?
You forget about the cable after 30 seconds.


----------



## aaf evo

kubig123 said:


> The PW Audio 1960 2 wire?
> You forget about the cable after 30 seconds.



Yeah I was thinking about doing some research into PW Audio.


----------



## bvng3540

kubig123 said:


> The PW Audio 1960 2 wire?
> You forget about the cable after 30 seconds.


Yes, since it only 2 wires, once it on your ears, you won't notice it even there


----------



## twister6 (Sep 18, 2018)

bvng3540 said:


> Yes, since it only 2 wires, once it on your ears, you won't notice it even there



PWA 1960, 2wire: equivalent of 4 conductors; 4wire: equivalent of 8 conductors.  It's still on a thicker side.  I reviewed both last year.


----------



## Barra

Listening to the PWaudio 1980 4-wire now and comparing to the 1960 4-wire. They seem very similar in performance with the 1980 having more sparkle up top and the 1960 being smoother. At this performance level, it is splitting hairs and signature preferences that drive decisions. Both have a similar look. Again, WOW. Side by side, the 80 is a little harder of a cable with the 60 is more subtle/flexible. While the detail retrieval is similar, the detail is a little more forward with the 80 given the extra sparkle. While both are wonderful, the 60 is more like my EC ZDs tube amp while the 80 is more solid state ROK-like if that makes sense. Big bottom end on both, but the decay is slower on the 60 and faster on the 80. Moving on to the 1950.

WMA1 > Hugo 2 > A18


----------



## Barra

Listening to the PWaudio 1950 4-wire now. Immediately I notice that there is a more balanced signature. The lift that the 1960 and 1980 have on the bottom end is removed with a more leveled response across the spectrum. The bottom end still hits hard, but at a more balanced level. I actually like the bass lift of the 1960/1980 better. Please note that the 18 has a significant low end that can blow your hair back so the pairing may be different on your CIEM. I also notice that the sparkle is similar to the 1980 on the top end for more details in your face. The 1950 has the euphonics of the 1960 and the sparkle of the 1980 with a more balanced signature. Again, this is a big WOW cable that stands out with a different signature mix. 

Will have to spend more time with each of these on my other CIEMs to see if my opinion changes but so far, I am liking them in this order: 60 > 80 > 50. The 50 is the most expensive and most balanced, but with the 18, it is nice to see the bass unleashed with the 60 and 80. Between the 60 and the 80, the smoother 60 is an all-day listen while the sparkle on the 80 may get tiring as I am sensitive to treble. That said, there are a number of songs that I preferred the 80's treble sparkle to the smoother 60. In a perfect world, would own the 60 and the 80 for my a18 for variety plus the Venom.

So that is 3 down in the PWaudio tour kit, 9 more to go.


----------



## Barra

One more thing, the PWAudio tour cables are all 4.4mm terminated. To connect to my Hugo 2 there is a 4.4mm adapter that is a one piece ultra short type that works flawlessly. It is not the prettiest adapter that I have seen, but given the problems that I have been having with the 2.5 to 3.5/4.4 adapters, ultra short or otherwise, it is a breath of fresh air to have something that just works. Well done PWAudio!

In comparison, my other 2.5 adapters from the other tours seem to lose connectivity in a channel or both just by twisting the plug. The adapters with cable seem to break at the adapter given the stress on these short cables. My listening experience previously has been intermittent connectivity in the channels that change with any movement. This has made me rethink my 2.5 terminations with adapter strategy completely.


----------



## natemact

This is how I read it..


Barra said:


> Big bottom end on both, but the decay is slower on the 60(yr) and faster on the 80(yr)


Who's to argue?


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Barra said:


> Listening to the PWaudio 1950 4-wire now. Immediately I notice that there is a more balanced signature. The lift that the 1960 and 1980 have on the bottom end is removed with a more leveled response across the spectrum. The bottom end still hits hard, but at a more balanced level. I actually like the bass lift of the 1960/1980 better. Please note that the 18 has a significant low end that can blow your hair back so the pairing may be different on your CIEM. I also notice that the sparkle is similar to the 1980 on the top end for more details in your face. The 1950 has the euphonics of the 1960 and the sparkle of the 1980 with a more balanced signature. Again, this is a big WOW cable that stands out with a different signature mix.
> 
> Will have to spend more time with each of these on my other CIEMs to see if my opinion changes but so far, I am liking them in this order: 60 > 80 > 50. The 50 is the most expensive and most balanced, but with the 18, it is nice to see the bass unleashed with the 60 and 80. Between the 60 and the 80, the smoother 60 is an all-day listen while the sparkle on the 80 may get tiring as I am sensitive to treble. That said, there are a number of songs that I preferred the 80's treble sparkle to the smoother 60. In a perfect world, would own the 60 and the 80 for my a18 for variety plus the Venom.
> 
> So that is 3 down in the PWaudio tour kit, 9 more to go.


Barra 
1960 vs Venom which you like better and why?


----------



## Barra

hamhamhamsta said:


> Barra
> 1960 vs Venom which you like better and why?


Wow, that is a tough one. Right now, my thoughts on favorite cables are the Han Sound Venom and Aurora and the PWAudio 1960 and 1980 and I have room for all of them in my collection for different reasons. They are all top notch and in the WOW class in cables. The Venom and 1960 edge out their brethren by a bit if I had to narrow down. However, the Venom and 1960 are different so it comes down to pairing and signature preference with equivalent levels of performance. 

In comparison, the 1960 has a bigger lower end which makes it more fun and a euphonic SQ that I really love. The Venom bottom end is slightly enhanced but not as much as the 1960 being fun still, but more balanced overall for a more audiophile signature. The Venom has a clarity and black background that is outstanding that really cleans up my 12t and adds more texturing in the mids. So I would probably pair the Venom with my 12t and the 1960 with my A18. But each is outstanding with both so I could trade back and forth to change things up. Looks wise, they both appear premium, but if I had to choose, the Venom looks a tiny bit more premium to me. However, the Venom has that extra shielding wire dangling there that I have yet to use making it less ergonomic.

I couldn't choose right now but can tell you that either one would make most people extremely happy. Perhaps my views will change as I start mixing with my other CIEMs to see how they pair. I should also point out that these PWAudio cables have not had any burn time yet so if you believe in cable burn in then things can change. I have noticed that the 1960 has changed a bit in the last couple days which could just be brain burn in but I keep liking it more.       - Bill


----------



## Barra

BTW, I would like to thank Calvin at Music Sanctuary for making these tours possible. Here in the states, it is very rare to find a well-stocked HeadFi focused shop to hear any of this gear. Other than RMAF/CANJAM, these tours are the only way I have been able to hear any of the gear I read about here in HeadFi. The people at Music Sanctuary are great to work with and I would love for everyone to support them with our business when Han Sound or PWAudio cables are purchased.


----------



## Barra

Worked my way to the Xorxes 8-wire. Again, extremely high SQ and maybe the most beautiful wire of the bunch. This one is very rich sounding with great texturing, some shimmer, and a good low end. After hearing the 1950, 1960, and 1980, I can tell you that they have an extra few percentages in performance over the Xorxes, but we are paying a big premium for that little bit of extra performance. This hybrid cable sounds wonderful and could be an endgame if I hadn't already heard the others. It also has a 4 wire version at half the price that could offer huge price to performance. I am really enjoying the build quality of these PWAudio cables.


----------



## Vansound

Hello everyone. I have SD5 ebony version, want upgrade cable without change the signature. Any suggestion? really appreciate for that. Thanks.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Using terminator conversion adapters can degrade audio quality?


----------



## hamhamhamsta (Sep 20, 2018)

Barra said:


> Wow, that is a tough one. Right now, my thoughts on favorite cables are the Han Sound Venom and Aurora and the PWAudio 1960 and 1980 and I have room for all of them in my collection for different reasons. They are all top notch and in the WOW class in cables. The Venom and 1960 edge out their brethren by a bit if I had to narrow down. However, the Venom and 1960 are different so it comes down to pairing and signature preference with equivalent levels of performance.
> 
> In comparison, the 1960 has a bigger lower end which makes it more fun and a euphonic SQ that I really love. The Venom bottom end is slightly enhanced but not as much as the 1960 being fun still, but more balanced overall for a more audiophile signature. The Venom has a clarity and black background that is outstanding that really cleans up my 12t and adds more texturing in the mids. So I would probably pair the Venom with my 12t and the 1960 with my A18. But each is outstanding with both so I could trade back and forth to change things up. Looks wise, they both appear premium, but if I had to choose, the Venom looks a tiny bit more premium to me. However, the Venom has that extra shielding wire dangling there that I have yet to use making it less ergonomic.
> 
> I couldn't choose right now but can tell you that either one would make most people extremely happy. Perhaps my views will change as I start mixing with my other CIEMs to see how they pair. I should also point out that these PWAudio cables have not had any burn time yet so if you believe in cable burn in then things can change. I have noticed that the 1960 has changed a bit in the last couple days which could just be brain burn in but I keep liking it more.       - Bill


I know what you mean regarding PW 4 core 1960 cable.

I'm right now listening PW 1960 cable with modded Sony 1Z and EE Phantom. It's stunning really. It's really fast, effortless, so natural sounding, very 3D. Notes just pop up at the right places, stunning. Its beautiful really. Very very effortless and fast, did I said that again? And that black background, top notch resolution. I don't think I ever regret buying this cable although its pricey. This cable makes Phantom bass hits really hard when needed and the subbass is really good. Aesthetically this is the most fuss free cable I have (and I have a lot of cables), no tangling, stiffness etc.

One more thing, PW 1960 cable makes all my other ciem sing better; it just lifts them up higher in performance and sound quality. I'm still in awe of this cable after over a year owning it. Well, I often rotate ciems and cables but still.


----------



## artpiggo

Erfan Elahi said:


> Using terminator conversion adapters can degrade audio quality?



Yes, more or less. But whether it degraded in the way you "like" it to be personally is another story.


----------



## sanakimpro

I'm trying to get a new MMCX cable with microphone for my AK T8 MK ii. Debating between the Null Audio Lune Series MK V, Arete Mk III and the Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon cables. Any recommendations?


----------



## tim0chan

atoniolin said:


> I'm trying to get a new MMCX cable with microphone for my AK T8 MK ii. Debating between the Null Audio Lune Series MK V, Arete Mk III and the Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon cables. Any recommendations?


The dragons are out. Their conductors are extremely thin. Not worth the money.i think the line is the best of the lot as it's litz, no chance of tarnishing


----------



## SeeSax

atoniolin said:


> I'm trying to get a new MMCX cable with microphone for my AK T8 MK ii. Debating between the Null Audio Lune Series MK V, Arete Mk III and the Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon cables. Any recommendations?



I just got the Lune mk5 for my SE846 since I also needed something with a mic. In short, I'm blown away by the quality for the price point. The cable is extremely well made and I love the half sleeving, and I think the newest version is a pure silver cable. Quality is way above the stock cable, microphone works without a hitch and never had an issue with it. Highly recommended for something with a mic and MMCX. 


 

-Collin-


----------



## tim0chan

SeeSax said:


> I just got the Lune mk5 for my SE846 since I also needed something with a mic. In short, I'm blown away by the quality for the price point. The cable is extremely well made and I love the half sleeving, and I think the newest version is a pure silver cable. Quality is way above the stock cable, microphone works without a hitch and never had an issue with it. Highly recommended for something with a mic and MMCX.
> 
> 
> 
> -Collin-


Dammit, I knew the lune was an SPC cable


----------



## SeeSax

tim0chan said:


> Dammit, I knew the lune was an SPC cable



The description of the mk5 says nothing about SPC. 

_What is changed in the MKV generation?_


Silver/rare metal fusion alloy conductor, improved recipe, and OCC casted.

Now, I don't know what the "rare metal" is, but I would not think that has anything to do with copper. Not sure...maybe copper is "rare" in Singapore? 

-Collin-


----------



## tim0chan

SeeSax said:


> The description of the mk5 says nothing about SPC.
> 
> _What is changed in the MKV generation?_
> 
> ...


I believe it's SPC cos it's turning green. The litz wasn't well implemented in the Mark IV that's why they updated to the Mark V


----------



## ctaxxxx

SeeSax said:


> The description of the mk5 says nothing about SPC.
> 
> _What is changed in the MKV generation?_
> 
> ...




He's right. It's SPC. 

     Silver/rare metal *fusion* alloy conductor

This product claims the same thing, but you can see they clarify further down that it's "_*Silver-plated*_ / rare metal *fusion* custom alloy". Fusion implies a mixture of different metals.


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> He's right. It's SPC.
> 
> Silver/rare metal *fusion* alloy conductor
> 
> This product claims the same thing, but you can see they clarify further down that it's "_*Silver-plated*_ / rare metal *fusion* custom alloy". Fusion implies a mixture of different metals.



That product is by an entirely different manufacturer and still, it doesn't say copper anywhere. Maybe they're trying to hide it and call copper a "rare metal," but I don't know.

I'll email Null and ask. We can then put it to rest 

-Collin-


----------



## Kerouac

SeeSax said:


> That product is by an entirely different manufacturer and still, it doesn't say copper anywhere. Maybe they're trying to hide it and call copper a *"rare metal,"* but I don't know.
> 
> I'll email Null and ask. We can then put it to rest
> 
> -Collin-


Fingers crossed it won't be kryptonite


----------



## Wyville

SeeSax said:


> That product is by an entirely different manufacturer and still, it doesn't say copper anywhere. Maybe they're trying to hide it and call copper a "rare metal," but I don't know.
> 
> I'll email Null and ask. We can then put it to rest
> 
> -Collin-


Generally the term "rare" should refer to the Rare Earth Metals such as neodymium (which I doubt they'll be using), but perhaps they were referring to the Platinum Group with elements such as Rhodium and Palladium?

Neodymium would be cool though, as you could store your cable on the fridge like a fridge magnet.


----------



## tim0chan

ctaxxxx said:


> He's right. It's SPC.
> 
> Silver/rare metal *fusion* alloy conductor
> 
> This product claims the same thing, but you can see they clarify further down that it's "_*Silver-plated*_ / rare metal *fusion* custom alloy". Fusion implies a mixture of different metals.





SeeSax said:


> That product is by an entirely different manufacturer and still, it doesn't say copper anywhere. Maybe they're trying to hide it and call copper a "rare metal," but I don't know.
> 
> I'll email Null and ask. We can then put it to rest
> 
> -Collin-


It's an open secret that null audio, AAW and Advanced work very closely together, so much so that null audio provides cables for both parties. Its safe to say that its spc.


----------



## SeeSax

Okay. I think I'll just bow out of this witch hunt respectfully and default back to my original post: for a cable in this price range for someone who needs a microphone for a smartphone, I have yet to find anything better. 

-Collin-


----------



## tim0chan

SeeSax said:


> Okay. I think I'll just bow out of this witch hunt respectfully and default back to my original post: for a cable in this price range for someone who needs a microphone for a smartphone, I have yet to find anything better.
> 
> -Collin-


i agree too XD. if its for mmcx i think campfite audio makes some nice copper cables with mic


----------



## Sound Eq

so finally a 9000 usd cable emerged 

https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/AU06...m=a2g11.10010108.1000015.9.48f454eaxYle9y&s=p


----------



## Imusicman

Sound Eq said:


> so finally a 9000 usd cable emerged
> 
> https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/AU06...m=a2g11.10010108.1000015.9.48f454eaxYle9y&s=p


Ridiculous, obsene, offensive. This has to stop IMHO


----------



## twister6

Sound Eq said:


> so finally a 9000 usd cable emerged
> 
> https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/AU06...m=a2g11.10010108.1000015.9.48f454eaxYle9y&s=p



Oh look, they saw people complaining in high-end cable thread on HF, and dropped the price from $9k to $400   The link above only has $400 cable with some ridiculous blend of gold, silver, palladium, and everything else but the kitchen sink.


----------



## Sound Eq

twister6 said:


> Oh look, they saw people complaining in high-end cable thread on HF, and dropped the price from $9k to $400   The link above only has $400 cable with some ridiculous blend of gold, silver, palladium, and everything else but the kitchen sink.



sorry wrong link above, but here is the 9000 usd cable link

https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/Xiao...8.0&pvid=d3f7a07f-f2d9-4d51-b7e5-722f5a8eef91


----------



## SeeSax

Perhaps the adolescent in me is running things tonight, but the description of the $9,000 cable just made my night...

*Description of item*

Sex  male male
-Collin-


----------



## Bosk

Barra said:


> Worked my way to the Xorxes 8-wire. Again, extremely high SQ and maybe the most beautiful wire of the bunch. This one is very rich sounding with great texturing, some shimmer, and a good low end. After hearing the 1950, 1960, and 1980, I can tell you that they have an extra few percentages in performance over the Xorxes, but we are paying a big premium for that little bit of extra performance. This hybrid cable sounds wonderful and could be an endgame if I hadn't already heard the others. It also has a 4 wire version at half the price that could offer huge price to performance. I am really enjoying the build quality of these PWAudio cables.


Barra how do you feel the 1960s 2 wire and 4 wire versions compare in weight & ergonomics to the Xerxes 8 wire?


----------



## 284033 (Sep 24, 2018)

Bosk said:


> Barra how do you feel the 1960s 2 wire and 4 wire versions compare in weight & ergonomics to the Xerxes 8 wire?



The 1960s 2-wire is not included in the US tour package.


----------



## Barra

Bosk said:


> Barra how do you feel the 1960s 2 wire and 4 wire versions compare in weight & ergonomics to the Xerxes 8 wire?


As mentioned, the 1960 2-wire was not included in the tour kit. 

Between the 1960 4 wire and the Xerxes 8 wire, they are both extremely ergonomic and very light. Most of the weight of the wires come from the plugs and the splitters that are of extremely high quality and have a heft to them but are still extremely light. Holding both up in the air dangling at length and giving them a little bounce, neither is obviously heavier than the other, but are more obvious in the hand than my cheaper stock or minimalist cables that come with most IEMs. It is hard to tell the gauge of the 1960 wire, but it seems larger gauge than the Xerxes wires that are extremely fine - could just be the sleeve on the 1960 wires, but I don't think so. If I was to guess, I would guess an equal cumulative gauge. Bending the wire, the 1960 wire is more subtle and rugged at the same time with the geometry of the Xerxes 8 way weave creating some resistance. However, I would be more careful with the Xerxes wire in bending it given the fineness of the wire. They both look very high end, but the golden luster of the Xerxes may look a little more high end with the more intricate weave design. Neither cable is a candidate for tangling.

Putting it all together, they are both great in terms of ergonomics, but the 1960 feels more rugged as if it would handle more abuse potentially giving it more longevity for similar ergonomics. On the performance side, both are outstanding performers, but the 1960 is the one I go to having more special sauce. The Xerxes has more sparkle than the 1960 if you are a sparkle person and maybe a better pairing for darker IEMs. The 1960 is also a great treble performer presenting more of an integrated sound quality than sparkle forcus  However, the 1980 has a better/cleaner sparkle than the Xerxes and is my goto cable for my 12t while I am holding the kit where the 1960 is my goto cable for my a18t as the best pairings. If that raises interest in the 1980, it has the same design as the 1960 but is much stiffer where I am more concerned in the bend test.

If you are interested in the Xerxes, I would not be concerned at all as it is the best price to performance and an extreme performer both SQ and ergonomically as well as the most beautiful cable of the bunch. IMO, the 1960 and the 1980 are better SQ performers, by a small but audible margin, but at a price premium. If sparkle is required, then Xerxes or 1980 would be a better choice than the 1960. 

Hope that helps.      - Bill


----------



## Bosk

Thanks for your impressions Bill, much appreciated!


----------



## ayang02

ayang02 said:


> Just auditioned the Hansound Aegis 4-wire and 8-wire today and here are some pics and brief impressions:
> 
> 64 Audio A18t, Hansound Aegis 4 & 8-wire, PlusSound X8 Tri-Copper (this is mine)
> 
> ...



An update here: I have since received the Aegis 8-wire about 3 weeks ago but haven't had a chance to spend much time with it. In short listening sessions I noticed the initial impressions I gave did not match what I'm hearing with my own cable.

*Vocals*: more sparkle than X8 Tri-Copper, but probably less than the 4-wire Aegis (from my memory)
*Bass Impact*: less bass impact than X8 Tri-Copper, fast bass response though
*Overall*: Dark background, good and airy treble extension, light and fast bass response, and more balanced sound than the 4-wire variant

I also read other people's 8-wire Aegis impressions and it matches well with what I'm hearing with my own cable. I can't explain the difference I heard between the demo Aegis 8-wire cable & the one I received, the only difference between the two cables is the termination: the demo cable used a 2.5 mm Furutech plug while the cable I have is a 4.4 mm Furutech plug, both are 2-pin CM cables. When listening to these cables, I used the same source: my WM1A balanced port (used Effect Audio's 2.5 mm to 4.4 mm adapter for the demo cable).


----------



## Likeimthere

Alright alright. . . so. . . I made the jump and purchased a Hugo 2. . . selling all my other gear to fund it. . . so right now I have a TOTL DAC, a TOTL CIEM (A18). . . the only thing I am missing is a great cable pairing with the A18/Hugo2.  Now I only mention this because of personal experience. . . I have a Thor Silver cable which I have been using for some time now. . . only issue is, its in balance form. . . I tested out the Hugo today using a Fiio L26 adaptor, because that is all I have in 3.5mm

To my surprise, the SQ was different to my ears. . . it seemed muffled. . . much more bass heavy. . .  

I've tested the Hugo2 in the past with a pure silver Rhapsodio cable, and it sounded. . .airier. . . more transparency. . . Better separation. . . So I was expecting this to be a similar case with the Thor Silver. . . ah but it isn't. . 

It would seem the weakest link is the FiiO adaptor, which turns out to be SPC. . . Like putting regular gas in a McLaren. . .  

So I need some advice on what would be a good pairing for my current combo please. I'm *not down* for spending $1000 for a cable... My signature preference is a natural tone and timbre but with great separation. . . I want to feel _"Like I'm There"_. . .pun intended

Thank you for your wisdom in advance. . .


----------



## pithyginger63

I think I'm looking to get another cable soon, I have a plussound gph at the moment and am thinking of getting something brighter and puts detail more forward. basically I'm thinking of getting a pure silver cable, I looked up reviews of the effect audio Thor ii and I get a bunch of people saying how it deviates from normal silver cables by sounding warm. what's a silver cable with the "typical" silver sound?


----------



## IgeNeLL (Sep 26, 2018)

Likeimthere said:


> Alright alright. . . so. . . I made the jump and purchased a Hugo 2. . . selling all my other gear to fund it. . . so right now I have a TOTL DAC, a TOTL CIEM (A18). . . the only thing I am missing is a great cable pairing with the A18/Hugo2.  Now I only mention this because of personal experience. . . I have a Thor Silver cable which I have been using for some time now. . . only issue is, its in balance form. . . I tested out the Hugo today using a Fiio L26 adaptor, because that is all I have in 3.5mm
> 
> To my surprise, the SQ was different to my ears. . . it seemed muffled. . . much more bass heavy. . .
> 
> ...


To pair with IEM, I dont appreciate much the hugo2 performance. Although it bring much detail and attach to the treble but a TOTL dap such as Sp1000  or sp1000M is more suitable for IEMs. Hugo2 power matching and noise floor is quite annoying for some IEMs. I have tried some 64 audio iem and I think that they need a pure silver cable to control over the whole frequency.


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> I think I'm looking to get another cable soon, I have a plussound gph at the moment and am thinking of getting something brighter and puts detail more forward. basically I'm thinking of getting a pure silver cable, I looked up reviews of the effect audio Thor ii and I get a bunch of people saying how it deviates from normal silver cables by sounding warm. what's a silver cable with the "typical" silver sound?



The PlusSound Silver + Gold would be it IMO.


----------



## Barra

Likeimthere said:


> Alright alright. . . so. . . I made the jump and purchased a Hugo 2. . . selling all my other gear to fund it. . . so right now I have a TOTL DAC, a TOTL CIEM (A18). . . the only thing I am missing is a great cable pairing with the A18/Hugo2.  Now I only mention this because of personal experience. . . I have a Thor Silver cable which I have been using for some time now. . . only issue is, its in balance form. . . I tested out the Hugo today using a Fiio L26 adaptor, because that is all I have in 3.5mm
> 
> To my surprise, the SQ was different to my ears. . . it seemed muffled. . . much more bass heavy. . .
> 
> ...


I have the Hugo 2 > a18 setup which I am enjoying very much and have just hosted several CIEM upgrade cable tours to test the 18 across a wide variety. At the very pinnacle of this journey, I have found that Han Sound Venom and PWAudio 1960 are the best I have heard and scale the a18 into exotic SQ territory - but are those $1000 plus cables you are looking to avoid. You can get a great percentage of the way there with the lower/mid tier version from these companies for a greater price to performance ratio, but the A18 continues to scale as you introduce better chain components and doesn't seem to top out. In the mid-tier priced cables, the better results I was finding was from hybrid copper/silver cables (not SPC) like the Han Sound Redcore. If you go lower end, I am finding that the A18 is responding well to 8 wire geometry when available in either copper or silver if you can afford it.

In the end, you really need to hear it for yourself to know for sure. If you are in the US, I will be launching the PWAudio CIEM cable upgrade tour soon which you can join and see for yourself. The link in my signature should be live soon.


----------



## Likeimthere

Barra said:


> I have the Hugo 2 > a18 setup which I am enjoying very much and have just hosted several CIEM upgrade cable tours to test the 18 across a wide variety. At the very pinnacle of this journey, I have found that Han Sound Venom and PWAudio 1960 are the best I have heard and scale the a18 into exotic SQ territory - but are those $1000 plus cables you are looking to avoid. You can get a great percentage of the way there with the lower/mid tier version from these companies for a greater price to performance ratio, but the A18 continues to scale as you introduce better chain components and doesn't seem to top out. In the mid-tier priced cables, the better results I was finding was from hybrid copper/silver cables (not SPC) like the Han Sound Redcore. If you go lower end, I am finding that the A18 is responding well to 8 wire geometry when available in either copper or silver if you can afford it.
> 
> In the end, you really need to hear it for yourself to know for sure. If you are in the US, I will be launching the PWAudio CIEM cable upgrade tour soon which you can join and see for yourself. The link in my signature should be live soon.



*I am DEFINITELY interested in that tour!!*  I have Thor II cables at the moment, so I was thinking about doing the Effect Audio Bespoke Upgrade program to the Eros II 8-Wire since I recently discovered I could do that. . . I just don't have the patience to go without my music for days or weeks turnaround. . . LOL and maybe some time in the distant future I'll be able to afford $1000+ cables. . .


----------



## Barra

Ok, now you can sign up for the PWAudio US Tour - please see my signature link.


----------



## Barra

Likeimthere said:


> *I am DEFINITELY interested in that tour!!*  I have Thor II cables at the moment, so I was thinking about doing the Effect Audio Bespoke Upgrade program to the Eros II 8-Wire since I recently discovered I could do that. . . I just don't have the patience to go without my music for days or weeks turnaround. . . LOL and maybe some time in the distant future I'll be able to afford $1000+ cables. . .


See my signature for a live tour link now.


----------



## Ike1985 (Sep 27, 2018)

Barra said:


> I have the Hugo 2 > a18 setup which I am enjoying very much and have just hosted several CIEM upgrade cable tours to test the 18 across a wide variety. At the very pinnacle of this journey, I have found that Han Sound Venom and PWAudio 1960 are the best I have heard and scale the a18 into exotic SQ territory - but are those $1000 plus cables you are looking to avoid. You can get a great percentage of the way there with the lower/mid tier version from these companies for a greater price to performance ratio, but the A18 continues to scale as you introduce better chain components and doesn't seem to top out. In the mid-tier priced cables, the better results I was finding was from hybrid copper/silver cables (not SPC) like the Han Sound Redcore. If you go lower end, I am finding that the A18 is responding well to 8 wire geometry when available in either copper or silver if you can afford it.
> 
> In the end, you really need to hear it for yourself to know for sure. If you are in the US, I will be launching the PWAudio CIEM cable upgrade tour soon which you can join and see for yourself. The link in my signature should be live soon.



My thought's exactly, the 18t just scales and scales and scales.  So happy I bought it.  I would never have imagined the sort of difference I got with the Venom vs the other cables I'd heard with the H2 + A18t pairing.  Exotic is the right word.


----------



## Likeimthere (Sep 27, 2018)

Lol I just need an exotic paycheck...sigh one day,.. one day...I’m excited for this cable tour!! I just need to get my test song list together...


----------



## Likeimthere

Ike1985 said:


> My thought's exactly, the 18t just scales and scales and scales.  So happy I bought it.  I would never have imagined the sort of difference I got with the Venom vs the other cables I'd heard with the H2 + A18t pairing.  Exotic is the right word.



Lol it’s actually a very exciting thought.. you just want to throw everything your can at it to see just how far it can go... I haven’t regretted my A18t purchase one bit.., but that’s another thread altogether lol


----------



## sanakimpro (Oct 4, 2018)

.


----------



## tim0chan

atoniolin said:


> Note: Reposting to share with whoever is interested in budget IEM cables. From my response in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/astell-kern-ak-t8ie-mkⅡ-impressions-and-discussions-thread.811963/page-17
> 
> I tried the Acoustune ARC01 Unbalanced MMCX 3.5mm cable and I found it to be not too bad actually. It costs about USD 100 in my area and it definitely looks sturdy and long lasting. But it's heavy! Noticeably heavy when you pick it up, compared to the stock cable. I think when listening to music, someone can come from behind and garrote me and get away with it. Seriously.
> 
> ...


Wrong thread m8


----------



## junix

Leonidas II by @EffectAudio is out!!! 
Anyone pre-ordered?

https://www.effectaudio.com/leo-ii/leonidas-ii.html


----------



## Deezel177

Hey guys! I just published a review of one of my favourite cables of the year: Han Sound Audio's Aegis. It's a punchy and impactful-sounding cable that doesn't compromise on vocal integrity or tonal balance. In fact, it adds an excellent meaty timbre to the bass and midrange. Add to that Han Sound Audio's excellent in-house hardware and build, and you have yourselves one heck of a package. As always, hope you enjoy and look out for my next review this weekend which may or may not rhyme with _Pea-oh-Midas Flu_. 

*Han Sound Audio Aegis - Rock, Romance N' Rollercoasters*


----------



## XybernetIQ

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys! I just published a review of one of my favourite cables of the year: Han Sound Audio's Aegis. It's a punchy and impactful-sounding cable that doesn't compromise on vocal integrity or tonal balance. In fact, it adds an excellent meaty timbre to the bass and midrange. Add to that Han Sound Audio's excellent in-house hardware and build, and you have yourselves one heck of a package. As always, hope you enjoy and look out for my next review this weekend which may or may not rhyme with _Pea-oh-Midas Flu_.
> 
> *Han Sound Audio Aegis - Rock, Romance N' Rollercoasters*
> 
> ​



As all your reviews this one is an excellent one, Daniel. It comes right when I am after a pairing for RHA CL2 planar IEM. 
I have in mind three cables, Aegis is one of them besides PW Audio Saladin and Effect Audio Eros. 
I would love to have your opinion about the most suitable paring for the named IEM being it from the above collection or one of your choice , in the same price bracket. In my intention is to keep the character of the IEM but to emphasize a bit its musicality. Thank you for your opinion!


----------



## jasonho

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys! I just published a review of one of my favourite cables of the year: Han Sound Audio's Aegis. It's a punchy and impactful-sounding cable that doesn't compromise on vocal integrity or tonal balance. In fact, it adds an excellent meaty timbre to the bass and midrange. Add to that Han Sound Audio's excellent in-house hardware and build, and you have yourselves one heck of a package. As always, hope you enjoy and look out for my next review this weekend which may or may not rhyme with _Pea-oh-Midas Flu_.
> 
> *Han Sound Audio Aegis - Rock, Romance N' Rollercoasters*
> 
> ​



Excellent review !   It’s THE cable for my VE8 now


----------



## audio123

ctaxxxx said:


> Anyone know anything about the (GPC) Penon GD849? I didn't realize they released new cables.
> 
> Edit: Now I see they have a pure silver cable up - Penon Leo. These must be brands new.





bahamot said:


> Waiting your Penon GD849 review ...



Review on the GD849!


----------



## Moonstar

Thanks for the review. The gold color looks great.


----------



## Deezel177

XybernetIQ said:


> As all your reviews this one is an excellent one, Daniel. It comes right when I am after a pairing for RHA CL2 planar IEM.
> I have in mind three cables, Aegis is one of them besides PW Audio Saladin and Effect Audio Eros.
> I would love to have your opinion about the most suitable paring for the named IEM being it from the above collection or one of your choice , in the same price bracket. In my intention is to keep the character of the IEM but to emphasize a bit its musicality. Thank you for your opinion!





jasonho said:


> Excellent review !   It’s THE cable for my VE8 now





Moonstar said:


> Thanks for the review. The gold color looks great.



Thanks so much guys! I haven't heard the CL2 yet unfortunately, so I can't really say which would pair best. The Aegis and Saladin would be great if you wanted to add more body to the CL2. But, the Aegis has a more dynamic, punchy sound, while the Saladin is more laid-back (especially in the treble). The Eros II is the choice if you wanted to preserve the original signature and improve imaging and extension. I'd say more, but I can't without a direct comparison. I hope those words help in any way!


----------



## ctaxxxx

Deezel177 said:


> Thanks so much guys! I haven't heard the CL2 yet unfortunately, so I can't really say which would pair best. The Aegis and Saladin would be great if you wanted to add more body to the CL2. But, the Aegis has a more dynamic, punchy sound, while the Saladin is more laid-back (especially in the treble). The Eros II is the choice if you wanted to preserve the original signature and improve imaging and extension. I'd say more, but I can't without a direct comparison. I hope those words help in any way!



Huh, I missed this review. Sounds like a warmer tinged Thor, which I really liked, except for it's drier tone. I might try this next instead. Cheaper than the Lionheart as well. I've decided to stay away from silver for IEMs since it's tone is not for me.


----------



## audio123

ctaxxxx said:


> Huh, I missed this review. Sounds like a warmer tinged Thor, which I really liked, except for it's drier tone. I might try this next instead. Cheaper than the Lionheart as well. I've decided to stay away from silver for IEMs since it's tone is not for me.


Which IEM are you planning to pair with?


----------



## XybernetIQ

Deezel177 said:


> Thanks so much guys! I haven't heard the CL2 yet unfortunately, so I can't really say which would pair best. The Aegis and Saladin would be great if you wanted to add more body to the CL2. But, the Aegis has a more dynamic, punchy sound, while the Saladin is more laid-back (especially in the treble). The Eros II is the choice if you wanted to preserve the original signature and improve imaging and extension. I'd say more, but I can't without a direct comparison. I hope those words help in any way!


It make a lot of sense. It looks, then, like Eros II will better fit my needs! Thanks, man!


----------



## Ike1985

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys! I just published a review of one of my favourite cables of the year: Han Sound Audio's Aegis. It's a punchy and impactful-sounding cable that doesn't compromise on vocal integrity or tonal balance. In fact, it adds an excellent meaty timbre to the bass and midrange. Add to that Han Sound Audio's excellent in-house hardware and build, and you have yourselves one heck of a package. As always, hope you enjoy and look out for my next review this weekend which may or may not rhyme with _Pea-oh-Midas Flu_.
> 
> *Han Sound Audio Aegis - Rock, Romance N' Rollercoasters*
> 
> ​



Will we see a formal venom review?  Between the Redcore, Aegis and Venom I've heard some spectacular differences in cables.  Before Han Sound I really didn't expect these significant of an impact from cables.


----------



## ctaxxxx

audio123 said:


> Which IEM are you planning to pair with?


Oriolus mk2. 

Music Sanctuary doesn't have any configuration options on their site for the Aegis. Wonder why... Sent them an email about it.


----------



## Deezel177

Ike1985 said:


> Will we see a formal venom review?  Between the Redcore, Aegis and Venom I've heard some spectacular differences in cables.  Before Han Sound I really didn't expect these significant of an impact from cables.



Not from me, probably. Nic reviewed them for THL here, though.



ctaxxxx said:


> Oriolus mk2.
> 
> Music Sanctuary doesn't have any configuration options on their site for the Aegis. Wonder why... Sent them an email about it.



Yeah, that's odd. Maybe you can add your configuration options to some sort of _Notes_ section at check-out?


----------



## proedros

another great review @Deezel177 

since you are the cables expert here (with @flinkenick ) can you tell me if i should be eyeing any other cables for zeus xr besides ares ii(8 wire) below 500$ ?

currently pairing it with pw no5 (4w) , i should expect ares ii (8w) to be a worthy-for-its-money upgrade ?

any other cables that pair well with Zeus XR ?


----------



## twister6

proedros said:


> another great review @Deezel177
> 
> since you are the cables expert here (with @flinkenick ) can you tell me if i should be eyeing any other cables for zeus xr besides ares ii(8 wire) below 500$ ?
> 
> ...



It's hard to judge by memory since I haven't heard Zeus XR in over a year, but it was more mid forward, and you want to pair it up with Ares II 8wire which is a mid forward cable. Is that your intent?


----------



## proedros

twister6 said:


> It's hard to judge by memory since I haven't heard Zeus XR in over a year, but it was more mid forward, and you want to pair it up with Ares II 8wire which is a mid forward cable. Is that your intent?



well the intent is always the same , make your ciem sound better 

i don;t know how ares ii sounds, i see people who own Zeus XR who say that aresii(8w) pairs well with XR . that's all

i currently use pw no5(4w) which is ok but always curious if there is a cable to improve the XR sound without breaking the bank

which cables did you find pairing well with Xr when you had it ?


----------



## SeeSax

Great review as always, @Deezel177 

If I may present a question and quote your review for a moment: "If what you look for in a cable is superior micro-detail retrieval, a more spacious stage and improved imaging – for IEMs like the Warbler Audio Prelude that need help in those areas – the Aegis will not fulfil your needs."

What would recommend for this exact scenario? I just got a Noble Katana from a fellow Head-Fi member and am looking for as transparent/micro-detailed a cable as possible, in essence to match the signature of the Katana and not change, elevate or smooth anything out. I think the detail and precision are extremely exciting on this IEM and am sort of looking to pair a cable that just leaves that alone.

Thank you for your thoughts!

-Collin-


----------



## twister6

proedros said:


> well the intent is always the same , make your ciem sound better
> 
> i don;t know how ares ii sounds, i see people who own Zeus XR who say that aresii(8w) pairs well with XR . that's all
> 
> ...



Just looked into my old notes from a year and a half ago, seems that I preferred 1960 2wire the best with XRA (I realized, the one I had was XRA, not XR, sent it back to convert to XR and it felt through the cracks lol!!!)


----------



## artpiggo

I believe Han Sound Venom is a very good match with Zeus XR.


----------



## Deezel177 (Oct 9, 2018)

proedros said:


> another great review @Deezel177
> 
> since you are the cables expert here (with @flinkenick ) can you tell me if i should be eyeing any other cables for zeus xr besides ares ii(8 wire) below 500$ ?
> 
> ...



Thanks man! As Alex mentioned, I did love the 2-wire PWAudio 1960s with the Zeus, but that's far beyond the $500 price point you set. Personally, I haven't come across any cable that jumps out at me as being _perfect for Zeus!_ apart from the 2-wire 1960s and Eos. I suspect the Aegis would make a great pairing as well, but it'll most likely lose out to the 8-wire Ares II in staging and transparency, if that's your preference.



SeeSax said:


> Great review as always, @Deezel177
> 
> If I may present a question and quote your review for a moment: "If what you look for in a cable is superior micro-detail retrieval, a more spacious stage and improved imaging – for IEMs like the Warbler Audio Prelude that need help in those areas – the Aegis will not fulfil your needs."
> 
> ...



Thanks bud! In that case, the most colourless cables I've encountered would probably be Effect Audio's Eros II and Janus D. The Eros II is a tonally transparent cable, but obviously it'll lose out technically-speaking to the Janus D. The Janus D IMO has a slight bias towards smoothening transients, but it's very slight. What you get is a presentation driven by a black background and an effortlessly open stage, so the details come through with zero fatigue or strain. _Maaaaybe_ the Leonidas II could be considered as well, because it has similar spatial traits to the Janus D. But, the Leo II has a coloured signature, especially along the upper-mids. Though, if utmost transparency and detail is what you're looking for, a Katana + Leo II pairing does sound pretty good. 



artpiggo said:


> I believe Han Sound Venom is a very good match with Zeus XR.



Not a good match for his wallet, though.


----------



## SeeSax

Thanks Daniel! Decisions decisions. Hopefully my Leo/Thor Silver 8-wire upgrade is done soon and I can try that as well.  Still eyeing the Janus and Leo II and will continue to salivate and make a decision  

Looking forward to that Leo II review!

-Collin-


----------



## audio123 (Oct 9, 2018)

Cables! 




Feel free to drop me a message regarding a specific cable if you are curious on how it will pair with your iem. Will try my best to help. Cheers! 



SeeSax said:


> Great review as always, @Deezel177
> 
> If I may present a question and quote your review for a moment: "If what you look for in a cable is superior micro-detail retrieval, a more spacious stage and improved imaging – for IEMs like the Warbler Audio Prelude that need help in those areas – the Aegis will not fulfil your needs."
> 
> ...


 I would personally recommend the Han Sound Redcore for the Katana. At the moment, my Kaiser Encore is currently paired with the Plussound Tri-Copper. Cheers.


----------



## junix (Oct 9, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> _Maaaaybe_ the Leonidas II could be considered as well, because it has similar spatial traits to the Janus D. But, the Leo II has a *coloured signature, especially along the upper-mids*.


Uf, doesn't sound like something that can pair well with U18t and SP1000Cu..

I tried a few cables so far (*Horus*, *PWAudio 1960* ..) , and most of all I liked the *HSA Venom *(the shielding connected to the 3.5mm on the SP1000Cu is really neat), but it is not exactly a portable cable.. so I'm still hanging around with my trusted *Lionheart* for the time being.

edit: I just noticed I wrote SP1000K instead of Cu.. I suppose the K will come after the M..


----------



## Deezel177

junix said:


> Uf, doesn't sound like something that can pair well with U18t and SP1000K..
> 
> I tried a few cables so far (*Horus*, *PWAudio 1960* ..) , and most of all I liked the *HSA Venom *(the shielding connected to the 3.5mm on the SP1000K is really neat), but it is not exactly a portable cable.. so I'm still hanging around with my trusted *Lionheart* for the time being.



Definitely not, I think vocals would sound too bright with that pairing. I wouldn't call them harsh - the Leo II is an especially refined-sounding cable; textured but not harsh - but the tone of instruments themselves would be unrealistic. The Venom I appreciated a lot because it has a similar tonal balance to the Janus D, where it's relatively neutral (lightly warm), but there's a meaty, harmonic thickness to it from the lower-midrange that doesn't become congested because of the Venom's insanely-resolved stage.


----------



## proedros

twister6 said:


> Just looked into my old notes from a year and a half ago, seems that I preferred *1960 2wire* the best with XRA (I realized, the one I had was XRA, not XR, sent it back to convert to XR and it felt through the cracks lol!!!)



well 1960s is the one i would get in the 'insanely rich' scenario 

but we need something <500$ for now


----------



## audio123

proedros said:


> well 1960s is the one i would get in the 'insanely rich' scenario
> 
> but we need something <500$ for now


You can check out Luminox Day For Night. Cheers!


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> Thanks man! As Alex mentioned, I did love the 2-wire PWAudio 1960s with the Zeus, but that's far beyond the $500 price point you set. *Personally, I haven't come across any cable that jumps out at me as being perfect for Zeus! apart from the 2-wire 1960s and Eos.* I suspect the Aegis would make a great pairing as well, but it'll most likely lose out to the 8-wire Ares II in staging and transparency, if that's your preference.



like i said , 1960s is the one i get once i become rich  - until then it's ou of my budget

you liked Eos that much, huh ? Great cablle but i think it makes Zeus too trebly , i find the (inferior) pw5 to be a better fit for my Zeus

also , is there an Eos Version 2 available , did i see correctly ?


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> like i said , 1960s is the one i get once i become rich  - until then it's ou of my budget
> 
> you liked Eos that much, huh ? Great cablle but i think it makes Zeus too trebly , i find the (inferior) pw5 to be a better fit for my Zeus
> 
> also , is there an Eos Version 2 available , did i see correctly ?



So sorry, I meant *EROS II*.  In that case, maybe the Saladin+ then. It has a similar general tone to the No. 5, but with improved staging and bass quality as well.


----------



## proedros

saladin > ares ii (8w) , then ?


----------



## mkrzych

audio123 said:


> Cables!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anything worth to try with Fiio F9 to top the sound comparing to original over-the-ear balanced cable?


----------



## audio123

mkrzych said:


> Anything worth to try with Fiio F9 to top the sound comparing to original over-the-ear balanced cable?


You can try PW Audio No.5 or Penon GD849 with the F9.


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> saladin > ares ii (8w) , then ?



Based on your preferences, maybe. Because, the Ares II has a more vibrant sound in the upper-mids that’s somewhat like the Eos (but the Eos is still a touch more trebly-y), while the Saladin is more like the No. 5. So, based on your earlier comments, the Saladin+ would be my recommendation.


----------



## Bosk

Deezel177 said:


> _Maaaaybe_ the Leonidas II could be considered as well, because it has similar spatial traits to the Janus D. But, the Leo II has a coloured signature, especially along the upper-mids.


Feels like I've just watched a teaser trailer!


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> Based on your preferences, maybe. Because, the Ares II has a more vibrant sound in the upper-mids that’s somewhat like the Eos (but the Eos is still a touch more trebly-y), while the Saladin is more like the No. 5. So, based on your earlier comments, the *Saladin+* would be my recommendation.



the +model is the 8-wire ?


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> the +model is the 8-wire ?



Yep. For PWAudio’s Vanquish line-up (Saladin, Loki and Xerxes) the “+” versions are 8-wire variants.


----------



## proedros

Deezel177 said:


> Yep. For PWAudio’s Vanquish line-up (Saladin, Loki and Xerxes) the “+” versions are 8-wire variants.




could you do a small 4/8 comparison of saladin ?

i take that you propose the 8w as a better fir for Zeus XR ?


----------



## proedros (Oct 9, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> Based on your preferences, maybe. Because, the Ares II has a more vibrant sound in the upper-mids that’s somewhat like the Eos (but the Eos is still a touch more trebly-y), while the Saladin is more like the No. 5. *So, based on your earlier comments, the Saladin+ would be my recommendation*.



thanx again for the feedback ,2 objections here though

a) a reviewer said that the + version is for more warm/natural iems as it is a transparent cable
b)the + version costs twice as the 4-wire , so if i could afford it i would probablly go for a used 1960s(2w) which is my ultimate ''wanna buy' cable for Zeus

so between *aresii(8w)* and *saladin(4w)* which are both prced around 300$ , which is the one you would recommend for Zeus XR ?

thanx again , chief


----------



## Bob Diamond

Which IEMs pair well with this cable?


----------



## Bob Diamond (Oct 9, 2018)

audio123 said:


> Review on the GD849!



What IEMs pair well with the Penon GD849?


----------



## audio123

Bob Diamond said:


> What IEMs pair well with the Penon GD849?


 Generally, brighter sounding IEMs pair better with the GD849.

*Saladin vs Saladin+ (Paired with Aroma Musical Box Twins)*
Saladin takes on a warm approach, providing a natural & rich listen. Bass performance is full-bodied and texture is rendered with great smoothness. The midrange shines in the lower mids department and the thickness helps to express male vocals effortlessly. Treble presentation is smooth. On the other hand, Saladin+ boasts quicker bass decay, more forward midrange and better treble extension. Soundstage is noticeably greater in magnitude for both aspects, width & depth.


----------



## proedros

looks like saladin (non plus) is the better option for my Zeus , the + version has 2 things (leaner bass and more fwd midrange) which i do not covet

thanx for th comparison , very helpful indeed.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Oct 9, 2018)

Deezel177 said:


> Yeah, that's odd. Maybe you can add your configuration options to some sort of _Notes_ section at check-out?



Music Sanctuary has updated the Aegis page with the configuration options. Just wish it didn't cost an extra $50 SGD for the 4.4mm connector...

(Edited with correct currency)


----------



## Deezel177

proedros said:


> could you do a small 4/8 comparison of saladin ?
> 
> i take that you propose the 8w as a better fir for Zeus XR ?



From my CanJam impressions:
_
*PWAudio Saladin:* The Saladin is what looks like a copper-silver hybrid within cable’s individual cores. Sonically though, it assumes the spiritual successor to Peter Wong’s highly-acclaimed No. 5 cable. Like the No. 5, the Saladin excels at organicity because of its natural timbre. The Saladin’s richness stems from its elevated low-end. Although its impact is more natural than it is basshead-inclined, the Saladin’s bass is warm, bloomy and buttery in texture. A calmed treble response allows this richness to fill the stage, infusing midrange notes with proper body as well as an exquisite tone. The Saladin presents vocals and instruments alike with great intimacy and forwardness.

Due to an accentuated lower-midrange, the Saladin is chestier than it is articulative or sparkly. But, energy in the lower-treble aids clarity, imbuing the Saladin withproper technical performance beyond just sheer musicality. Top-end extension is where the Saladin falters a tad. Although its upper-treble roll-off is crucial in determining its tone, I can’t help but hear a lack of finesse in separation and organisation. The Saladin’s presentation isn’t the neatest, but it wins *big *in naturalness, engagement and tone. It’s an incredibly admirable effort as far as entry-level cables are concerned, and its signature alone will find tons of admiration across the globe.

*PWAudio Saladin+: *Where the Saladin wavers, the Saladin+ absolutely shines. The 8-wire variant of the cable retains its inherent signature: Warm, rich and tonally accurate with a mid-bass bias. But, where the Saladin+ truly improves is – crucially – treble extension. Generously infusing the stage with headroom, the Saladin+ performs excellently in stage stability, openness and left-right separation whilst maintaining a gorgeous, warm timbre. Mid-bass jabs are now paired with airy and spacious undertones – serving up a baby version of the clear and layered low-end response present in the flagship 1950s. Midrange notes no longer feel too full, as the stage around them expands decently in all directions. Fortunately, vocals and instruments alike still maintain the same sense of density and richness. The treble – again – gains in extension to produce more articulate, refined and transparent notes. Linearity is maintained as to not mess with timbre – concluding the Saladin+ as an admirable performer in both timbre and technicality.
_


proedros said:


> thanx again for the feedback ,2 objections here though
> 
> a) a reviewer said that the + version is for more warm/natural iems as it is a transparent cable
> b)the + version costs twice as the 4-wire , so if i could afford it i would probablly go for a used 1960s(2w) which is my ultimate ''wanna buy' cable for Zeus
> ...



Considering your preference for the No. 5, the 4-wire Saladin may be more for you. It has that same organic, buttery timbre, while the 8-wire Ares II is more open-sounding and clean. The 8-wire Ares II - to me - sounds almost like a significantly more effortless version of the Eos with less treble. So, it portrays a grander, more well-resolved stage with an effortless presentation of micro-detail. It resolves as much as the Eos, but with less treble sparkle because it makes use of its dynamic range to define all that nuance. The Saladin will sound a bit more closed in, full and rich, but if the No. 5 tone is what you're looking for, then you should consider whether you prefer tonal balance or technical performance.


----------



## 284033

ctaxxxx said:


> Music Sanctuary has updated the Aegis page with the configuration options. Just wish it didn't cost an extra $50 for the 4.4mm connector...



Hi ctaxxxx, unfortunately the 4.4mm Furutech connector is more expensive, and HanSound charges more as well. The option is 50 SGD, which is about US$36.


----------



## ctaxxxx (Oct 9, 2018)

Kozato said:


> Hi ctaxxxx, unfortunately the 4.4mm Furutech connector is more expensive, and HanSound charges more as well. The option is 50 SGD, which is about US$36.


Ah, thanks! That makes it just enough for me to consider again when taking into account shipping costs.

Trying to set a hard limit on myself for $400 max on a quality copper cable. No more Lionheart unfortunately. Now I just need to sell my Thor II...


----------



## audio123

proedros said:


> looks like saladin (non plus) is the better option for my Zeus , the + version has 2 things (leaner bass and more fwd midrange) which i do not covet
> 
> thanx for th comparison , very helpful indeed.


No problem. Glad to be of help.


----------



## Moonstar (Oct 9, 2018)

audio123 said:


> Generally, brighter sounding IEMs pair better with the GD849.
> 
> *Saladin vs Saladin+ (Paired with Aroma Musical Box Twins)*
> Saladin takes on a warm approach, providing a natural & rich listen. Bass performance is full-bodied and texture is rendered with great smoothness. The midrange shines in the lower mids department and the thickness helps to express male vocals effortlessly. Treble presentation is smooth. On the other hand, Saladin+ boasts quicker bass decay, more forward midrange and better treble extension. Soundstage is noticeably greater in magnitude for both aspects, width & depth.


Those are some nice images! Thank you for sharing your easy to understand impressions mate


----------



## Deezel177

The latest addition in @EffectAudio's diverse stable, and - quite possibly - one of their best yet...

*Effect Audio Leonidas II - A Legend's Reprise*

​


----------



## papa_mia

Thank you @Deezel177 Good stuff as usual.
Ok guys, so with your extended experience, which brand has the most ergonomic, softest, best comfort cables that you guys have ever had (or tried) yet?


----------



## Deezel177

papa_mia said:


> Thank you @Deezel177 Good stuff as usual.
> Ok guys, so with your extended experience, which brand has the most ergonomic, softest, best comfort cables that you guys have ever had (or tried) yet?



Thanks so much!  The most weightless cable I’ve tried is certainly Linum’s stuff. But, I find they’re too weightless; they tend to jump and move around a lot. Without tightening the wire cinch, I have to keep looping the cables over my ears. So, I tend to gravitate towards slightly heavier - but still vanishingly comfortable - cables. PlusSound, PWAudio and Effect Audio are now relatively similar in weight and feel, but PlusSound cables are more silky and cloth-like to the touch, and Effect Audio’s are a bit more plastic-like. I haven’t had enough experience with PWAudio’s new Vanquish line to say which side it’s more on. All three rank highest for me in suppleness and softness. In terms of sheer build and lightness, Han Sound Audio takes the cake. They have the tightest, most uniform braids of all, which makes their cables beautifully compact. But, with the Aegis in particular, they aren’t the softest in insulation. In terms of Y-splits, PlusSound and DHC have the most variety, but my favourite right now is Effect Audio’s new one. Their balance of build quality, cosmetics, density and weight is hard to beat at the moment.


----------



## papa_mia

Yeah, PlusSound cables always look special to me, and now with your confirmation, they feel special in the hands too. Maybe I'm gonna try their Silver + Gold in the near future (not because of your convincing review, no).


----------



## aaf evo (Oct 14, 2018)

Are there any 4 wire suggestions (but not the regular Ares) to replicate the Ares 8 wire? Really prefer the smaller size and ergonomics of 4 wire cables.


----------



## Deezel177

aaf evo said:


> Are there any 4 wire suggestions (but not the regular Ares) to replicate the Ares 8 wire? Really prefer the smaller size and ergonomics of 4 wire cables.



The Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos would be closest to it, but that's obviously been discontinued. Surprisingly, out of all my cables, the one that resembled the 8-wire Ares II the most was my PlusSound Silver + Gold. Now, it's a touch brighter and it doesn't have the same effortlessness and dynamic range that an 8-wire cable does, but it brings similar qualities to an IEM as the Bespoke Ares II. I did audition it with the 64Audio A6t, which doesn't change _too_ much based on cable pair-ups as - say - the EE Phantom. I'll give it another try with the Phantom some time soon.


----------



## junix

Deezel177 said:


> The *Effect Audio x Music Sanctuary Eos* would be closest to it, but that's obviously been discontinued. Surprisingly, out of all my cables, the one that resembled the 8-wire Ares II the most was my PlusSound Silver + Gold. Now, it's a touch brighter and it doesn't have the same effortlessness and dynamic range that an 8-wire cable does, but it brings similar qualities to an IEM as the Bespoke Ares II. I did audition it with the 64Audio A6t, which doesn't change _too_ much based on cable pair-ups as - say - the EE Phantom. I'll give it another try with the Phantom some time soon.


..so happy I snatched the last available one in MS (your fault! - https://theheadphonelist.com/effect-audio-x-music-sanctuary-eos-enter-the-dragon/ Thnx.  )

Btw, any suggestion to replace *Linum BaX* and *SuperBax*?
These were my "gym cables" - iPhone -> _Bluetooth_ -> XB10 -> BaX/SuperBaX -> SE846.
Sonically ok-ish (more than great for gym), but amazingly light and thin.. so they just disappear.
Both died.. one 6 months ago, one 2 days ago.


----------



## Deezel177

junix said:


> ..so happy I snatched the last available one in MS (your fault! - https://theheadphonelist.com/effect-audio-x-music-sanctuary-eos-enter-the-dragon/ Thnx.  )
> 
> Btw, any suggestion to replace *Linum BaX* and *SuperBax*?
> These were my "gym cables" - iPhone -> _Bluetooth_ -> XB10 -> BaX/SuperBaX -> SE846.
> ...



For light and thin, PlusSound's X-series of cables come to mind. They're 2-wire cables that aren't as light as the Linum ones, but they should be more durable.


----------



## Ike1985

@Deezel177 great review of the L2 cable.


----------



## twister6

Ike1985 said:


> @Deezel177 great review of the L2 cable.



Didn't want to cross-post my review in multiple threads, since it's against Head-fi rules, but also don't want people to miss my Leo II review I posted here since EA thread went a bit south with engineering sound-science discussions, making the review easy to miss


----------



## Deezel177

Ike1985 said:


> @Deezel177 great review of the L2 cable.



Appreciate it, Ike! 



twister6 said:


> Didn't want to cross-post my review in multiple threads, since it's against Head-fi rules, but also don't want people to miss my Leo II review I posted here since EA thread went a bit south with engineering sound-science discussions, making the review easy to miss



Excellent work as always, Alex. Really agreed with everything you said on it.


----------



## Ike1985

twister6 said:


> Didn't want to cross-post my review in multiple threads, since it's against Head-fi rules, but also don't want people to miss my Leo II review I posted here since EA thread went a bit south with engineering sound-science discussions, making the review easy to miss



also VERY GOOD!


----------



## audio123 (Oct 15, 2018)

aaf evo said:


> Are there any 4 wire suggestions (but not the regular Ares) to replicate the Ares 8 wire? Really prefer the smaller size and ergonomics of 4 wire cables.


You can try Luminox Day For Night


----------



## Sound Eq

i have the empire ears legend x and ak se100 dap, would like to try an 8 core cable that is going to be better than the ares cable it came with

do you guys have any suggestions, price to be less than 400 usd


----------



## aaf evo

Sound Eq said:


> i have the empire ears legend x and ak se100 dap, would like to try an 8 core cable that is going to be better than the ares cable it came with
> 
> do you guys have any suggestions, price to be less than 400 usd



The Ares 8 wire is fantastic if you’re already satisfied with the sound of the regular Ares.


----------



## Sound Eq

aaf evo said:


> The Ares 8 wire is fantastic if you’re already satisfied with the sound of the regular Ares.



i think the ares 4 was a bit adding more warmth than another cable i have

i would like to depart from ares cable and look into something else


----------



## audio123 (Oct 16, 2018)

Sound Eq said:


> i think the ares 4 was a bit adding more warmth than another cable i have
> 
> i would like to depart from ares cable and look into something else


Have you considered PW Saladin+? 
A more affordable 8 core cable I can think of is Penon GS849.


----------



## Deezel177

Sound Eq said:


> i have the empire ears legend x and ak se100 dap, would like to try an 8 core cable that is going to be better than the ares cable it came with
> 
> do you guys have any suggestions, price to be less than 400 usd



Finding a quality 8-wire cable below 400 USD is a challenge. The 8-wire Ares II is actually less warm relative to the 4-wire version, because of its clearer, more open and more dynamic presentation. Superior treble extension and a blacker background prevent warm air from permeating the stage, so it's still a valid option even if you don't care for the 4-wire. The closest thing to an ideal recommendation would be the 8-wire Eros II, but I believe that's somewhere around 400-500+ USD. A 4-wire I can recommend around that price range that's 4-wire would be PlusSound's Exo Silver + Gold. It's brighter than the Ares II, but still excellently smooth, coherent and not unrealistic/metallic-sounding at all. Dynamically, it comes close to what the Ares II has to offer, so it's worth considering as well.


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> i have the empire ears legend x and ak se100 dap, would like to try an 8 core cable that is going to be better than the ares cable it came with
> 
> do you guys have any suggestions, price to be less than 400 usd


I don't think its a good idea to get an 8 wire cable. they are quite uncomfortable and make the top of your ears sore after a while. The improved extension and transparency isn't worth it imo. And honestly, its just the number of wires that makes a cable good; the quality of wire is also very important. I think its a better idea, with a budget of 400, to spend more on quality than quantity of wire. 

I tend to stick with warmer cables because my main iems are already focused on technicalities over tone, but i think you should just get a good silver cable or a silver cable with gold in it.


----------



## aaf evo

pithyginger63 said:


> I don't think its a good idea to get an 8 wire cable. they are quite uncomfortable and make the top of your ears sore after a while. The improved extension and transparency isn't worth it imo. And honestly, its just the number of wires that makes a cable good; the quality of wire is also very important. I think its a better idea, with a budget of 400, to spend more on quality than quantity of wire.
> 
> I tend to stick with warmer cables because my main iems are already focused on technicalities over tone, but i think you should just get a good silver cable or a silver cable with gold in it.



This post is relating with me very much at the moment. I’m finding myself favoring my Ares 4 wire over my Janus D and Ares 8 wire purely because of ergonomics. 

While the 8 wire’s are aesthetically pleasing they just are uncomfortable.


----------



## DeepSouth

I'm new here. I'm looking for a mmcx to balanced 2.5 for A&K players. I'm thinking of getting  ALOaudio – Reference 8. Despite having 8 strands (they hide the gauge on the website though) they aren't bulky at all. Are there some other high end cables I should be looking at instead? 
I see brimar mentioned a lot, but $12,000 is way out of my league. Brimar website is hard to navigate and I don't even know if they did mmcx anyway.


----------



## aaf evo

DeepSouth said:


> I'm new here. I'm looking for a mmcx to balanced 2.5 for A&K players. I'm thinking of getting  ALOaudio – Reference 8. Despite having 8 strands (they hide the gauge on the website though) they aren't bulky at all. Are there some other high end cables I should be looking at instead?
> I see brimar mentioned a lot, but $12,000 is way out of my league. Brimar website is hard to navigate and I don't even know if they did mmcx anyway.



What. $12000 cables. What even warrants this cost?


----------



## DeepSouth

aaf evo said:


> What. $12000 cables. What even warrants this cost?



https://www.brimar.net/shop 
Link left cold on purpose. Maybe $1200 isn't USD? I don't know but it's offputting. I've been lurking pretty hardcore here for about 2 weeks. Brimar comes up a ton.


----------



## meomap

DeepSouth said:


> I'm new here. I'm looking for a mmcx to balanced 2.5 for A&K players. I'm thinking of getting  ALOaudio – Reference 8. Despite having 8 strands (they hide the gauge on the website though) they aren't bulky at all. Are there some other high end cables I should be looking at instead?
> I see brimar mentioned a lot, but $12,000 is way out of my league. Brimar website is hard to navigate and I don't even know if they did mmcx anyway.



Try Ibasso  website. 
Reasonable price with mcx connector with 2.5mm termination.
I bought my IT04 iem with included that cable. If bought cable separately then I think 120 usd.
I have normal alo 2 pins reference 8, and I don't like it with my 10C or Encore. Plan to get rid of it. 
I just prefer my DHC cable. Hope the iBasso helps your budget better.


----------



## kubig123

DeepSouth said:


> I'm new here. I'm looking for a mmcx to balanced 2.5 for A&K players. I'm thinking of getting  ALOaudio – Reference 8. Despite having 8 strands (they hide the gauge on the website though) they aren't bulky at all. Are there some other high end cables I should be looking at instead?
> I see brimar mentioned a lot, but $12,000 is way out of my league. Brimar website is hard to navigate and I don't even know if they did mmcx anyway.



I would suggest Effect Audio, Plussound and PWaudio. I really like their products and they all have excellent customer service.

On the other side I’ve never been impressed by the Alo Audio cables, the ones I tried never impressed me sound wise and I found them microphonic, but this is just my personal experience.

On the first page of this thread you’ll find an exhaustive list of companies that produce audio cables.


----------



## Bosk

aaf evo said:


> This post is relating with me very much at the moment. I’m finding myself favoring my Ares 4 wire over my Janus D and Ares 8 wire purely because of ergonomics.
> 
> While the 8 wire’s are aesthetically pleasing they just are uncomfortable.


Sorry to hear the 8 wire Ares II isn't working out for you aaf evo. I think EA have done as good a job with its ergonomics as could possibly be expected but naturally its never going to be quite as comfortable as a 4 wire cable. 

Perhaps EA could consider manufacturing a slightly smaller wire-gauge 8 wire variant, as a compromise between the ergonomics of the 4 wire versions and current the 8 wire cables? Then you could have the beautiful 8 wire braiding & similar performance but with ergonomics, weight and price closer to the 4 wire version. I suspect it might not be profitable for them to engineer cables of completely different AWG but in an ideal world that would give customers more options.


----------



## IgeNeLL

DeepSouth said:


> I'm new here. I'm looking for a mmcx to balanced 2.5 for A&K players. I'm thinking of getting  ALOaudio – Reference 8. Despite having 8 strands (they hide the gauge on the website though) they aren't bulky at all. Are there some other high end cables I should be looking at instead?
> I see brimar mentioned a lot, but $12,000 is way out of my league. Brimar website is hard to navigate and I don't even know if they did mmcx anyway.


The website is under construction so the price is current out of updated man.
The price for the highend cable is around 3k for Grand Master.
The reasonable is grand monoarch 4x ~ 750$


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## frankqxq

So, currently I am using wm1z->lionheart->ve8. Things are more defined, clarity is better, but bass feels a bit tight. Also has the hansound aegis coming in soon. I want to further improve my cable, maybe at grail price range, any suggestion? was looking at horus4, but I don't know there is any other option that provides better improvement all around.


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## jasonho

frankqxq said:


> So, currently I am using wm1z->lionheart->ve8. Things are more defined, clarity is better, but bass feels a bit tight. Also has the hansound aegis coming in soon. I want to further improve my cable, maybe at grail price range, any suggestion? was looking at horus4, but I don't know there is any other option that provides better improvement all around.



I have both Lionheart and Aegis, you will love the Aegis especially the vocal and bass.


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## ayang02

I've also seen many VE8 & Aegis pairings around, people seem to like this combo.

What's interesting is whether you get the Aegis 4-wire or the 8-wire. The two cables seem to deliver different sound signatures, not your typical 4-wire to 8-wire transformation where you get "more" of the same sound using more wires.


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## frankqxq

jasonho said:


> I have both Lionheart and Aegis, you will love the Aegis especially the vocal and bass.


That's what I have been reading as well, and I do like the fact that it has better vocal, bass, and musicality. However, I think someone mentioned that aegis did not improve detail and speed by much, so I am hoping to find a bigger upgrade.


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## tim0chan

frankqxq said:


> That's what I have been reading as well, and I do like the fact that it has better vocal, bass, and musicality. However, I think someone mentioned that aegis did not improve detail and speed by much, so I am hoping to find a bigger upgrade.


1960s 2wire for U then


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## frankqxq

I don't know how I feel about pw audio. Although I know it makes excellent cables, just feel like the price is too inflated(there are a lot new cables in the asia market that probably "borrowed" the design of 1960 and at lower prices).


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## pithyginger63

frankqxq said:


> I don't know how I feel about pw audio. Although I know it makes excellent cables, just feel like the price is too inflated(there are a lot new cables in the asia market that probably "borrowed" the design of 1960 and at lower prices).


what are those brands? if it's a good bargain, it would be worth it right


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## IgeNeLL

frankqxq said:


> I don't know how I feel about pw audio. Although I know it makes excellent cables, just feel like the price is too inflated(there are a lot new cables in the asia market that probably "borrowed" the design of 1960 and at lower prices).


I just feel that the build quality of 1960S and sound quality remind me of Cardas Clear light cable :3


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## tim0chan

IgeNeLL said:


> I just feel that the build quality of 1960S and sound quality remind me of Cardas Clear light cable :3


To be fair they did mention US made copper litz so ...... Maybe?


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## frankqxq

pithyginger63 said:


> what are those brands? if it's a good bargain, it would be worth it right


they may be great options, but I am not in China right now, and these cables are only for sale in China. I'd rather not translate their names into English though. In addition, you don't know who to trust on these small brand cable reviews, a lot of them are just claiming what is not true about their sound quality.


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## frankqxq

and not sure if you guys have the same problem or not, but my effect audio lionheart's 4.4mm plug is loose, i can turn the plug easily, shouldn't it be glued instead?


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## Deezel177

frankqxq said:


> and not sure if you guys have the same problem or not, but my effect audio lionheart's 4.4mm plug is loose, i can turn the plug easily, shouldn't it be glued instead?



The barrel is screwed for easy maintenance, but it looks like you may have gotten a loose one. Is it the newer one with the chrome finish and carbon fiber accents?


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## bvng3540

Look like Ea need a new quality inspector seem like there has been a lot LOOSE connectors and plug as of late


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## frankqxq

Deezel177 said:


> The barrel is screwed for easy maintenance, but it looks like you may have gotten a loose one. Is it the newer one with the chrome finish and carbon fiber accents?


yes, it is the 4.4mm pentaconn jack, i can spin/turn the jack easily


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## Deezel177

frankqxq said:


> yes, it is the 4.4mm pentaconn jack, i can spin/turn the jack easily



That's a massive shame. Hopefully @EffectAudio catch wind of this and make some much needed changes to their QC ASAP.


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## ctaxxxx

frankqxq said:


> yes, it is the 4.4mm pentaconn jack, i can spin/turn the jack easily


Is that not intentional? Mine does that, also Pentaconn. I assumed it was for maintenance as mentioned.


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## frankqxq

ctaxxxx said:


> Is that not intentional? Mine does that, also Pentaconn. I assumed it was for maintenance as mentioned.


yeah, some people's are not glued I think, not sure why. I don't think it will influence the sound quality which is what I care most about, so I can live with it for now as I am looking for an upgrade,


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## Deezel177

ctaxxxx said:


> Is that not intentional? Mine does that, also Pentaconn. I assumed it wabits for maintenance as mentioned.



There should be some slight resistance as is the case with my Leo II. It shouldn't unscrew and spin _too_ easily. @frankqxq Does it unscrew and spin with minimal contact (i.e. can you get it to unscrew just by shaking it a bit, for example)?



frankqxq said:


> yeah, some people's are not glued I think. I don't think it will influence the sound quality which is what I care most about, so I can live with it for now as I am looking for an upgrade,



The jacks are not glued for ease of maintenance. If your only complaint is the fact that it's capable of being unscrewed, then it is by design. It's an entirely different story if it unscrews with minimal contact.


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## frankqxq

Deezel177 said:


> There should be some slight resistance as is the case with my Leo II. It shouldn't unscrew and spin _too_ easily. @frankqxq Does it unscrew and spin with minimal contact (i.e. can you get it to unscrew just by shaking it a bit, for example)?
> 
> 
> 
> The jacks are not glued for ease of maintenance. If your only complaint is the fact that it's capable of being unscrewed, then it is by design. It's an entirely different story if it unscrews with minimal contact.


I think it has a slight resistance at the beginning, and that's about it. I wouldn't say I can shake it loose though.


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## Deezel177

frankqxq said:


> I think it has a slight resistance at the beginning, and that's about it. I wouldn't say I can shake it loose though.



In that case, it's purely by design. You'd probably need to specifically request @EffectAudio to add some sort of adhesive for full security, but you'd most likely have to pay for a brand new connector if something ever goes wrong with your cable and a dismantling is required.


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## DeepSouth

Deezel177 said:


> In that case, it's purely by design. You'd probably need to specifically request @EffectAudio to add some sort of adhesive for full security, but you'd most likely have to pay for a brand new connector if something ever goes wrong with your cable and a dismantling is required.



Blue Locktite?


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## frankqxq

Deezel177 said:


> In that case, it's purely by design. You'd probably need to specifically request @EffectAudio to add some sort of adhesive for full security, but you'd most likely have to pay for a brand new connector if something ever goes wrong with your cable and a dismantling is required.


I see. That makes sense.


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## rtjoa

IgeNeLL said:


> The website is under construction so the price is current out of updated man.
> The price for the highend cable is around 3k for Grand Master.
> The reasonable is grand monoarch 4x ~ 750$


Brimar highend cables:
Ultimate 10 wire $5.5k
Omni King 10 wire $4.4k
Supreme Grand Master 8 wire $3.1k
Kaiser 8 wire $2350

Top two cables are Ultimate
Middle cable is Omni King
Bottom left cable is Kaiser
Bottom right cable is Supreme Grand Master


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## rtjoa

Sound Eq said:


> sorry wrong link above, but here is the 9000 usd cable link
> 
> https://ja.aliexpress.com/item/Xiao...8.0&pvid=d3f7a07f-f2d9-4d51-b7e5-722f5a8eef91


Beware of Photoshop 
I have one low end cable for around $160 and it looks far from its picture description. 
My OC Studio MK5.5 and PW Audio No. 5 (8 wire copper) have better build and braided.


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## IgeNeLL

rtjoa said:


> Brimar highend cables:
> Ultimate 10 wire $5.5k
> Omni King 10 wire $4.4k
> Supreme Grand Master 8 wire $3.1k
> ...


Hi, could you give some impression about the Omini King 10 and Ultimate 10 compared to GrandMaster, I only have chance to listen to Grand Master up to now.


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## Redcarmoose (Oct 24, 2018)

Han Sound Audio Zen 4 wire OCC litz copper cable terminated Furutech 4.4mm. Pretty inexpensive really.

https://music-sanctuary.com/products/han-sound-audio-zen-4-wire-occ-litz-copper-cable


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## ctaxxxx

Redcarmoose said:


> Han Sound Audio Zen 4 wire OCC litz copper cable terminated Furutech 4.4mm. Pretty inexpensive really.
> 
> https://music-sanctuary.com/products/han-sound-audio-zen-4-wire-occ-litz-copper-cable



How do you like that cable sound-wise? Have you heard the PW No.5 or Ares II by any chance?


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## Redcarmoose (Oct 24, 2018)

ctaxxxx said:


> How do you like that cable sound-wise? Have you heard the PW No.5 or Ares II by any chance?



 I’ve only been comparing to stock cables. There are improvements over stock, though not such a jump as I get using the Kimber Kable with full size headphones?

It adds some definition and maybe clarity, though I’m also going from single-ended to balanced, so it’s difficult to determine where the improvements come from?


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## harishmirror

Redcarmoose said:


> I’ve only been comparing to stock cables. There are improvements over stock, though not such a jump as I get using the Kimber Kable with full size headphones?
> 
> It adds some definition and maybe clarity, though I’m also going from single-ended to balanced, so it’s difficult to determine where the improvements come from?



Cable Atheist here, Balanced have more power output and different ciruit. Trust me these cables are exactly same as the expensive pos that I got. I tried night and day, beat by beat and not able to spot a micro molecule of difference on any part in my music. They are exactly the same and the cheaper ones have better build quality and sturdy as well.

I am going to list all my expensive pos cables in headfi itself and I am sure I will find buyers.


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## tim0chan

harishmirror said:


> Cable Atheist here, Balanced have more power output and different ciruit. Trust me these cables are exactly same as the expensive pos that I got. I tried night and day, beat by beat and not able to spot a micro molecule of difference on any part in my music. They are exactly the same and the cheaper ones have better build quality and sturdy as well.
> 
> I am going to list all my expensive pos cables in headfi itself and I am sure I will find buyers.


Hey mate, wrong thread, no one here to try to pop bubbles. Go back to whence you came (aka sound science forum)


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## SeeSax

I am going to cross-post here because I just completed my first tour with the PW Audio cables (12 cables!) and have jotted down some rough, disorganized notes and figured it would be beneficial here too since I was afforded the luxury of testing the entire PW Audio lineup back to back. Enjoy, or stop reading if it's too boring  

*1950 (4-wire)*: I kicked off my listening with a nice A/B comparison with the 1950 and the Labkable Samurai III plugged into my Noble Katana IEMs. These are my new go-to IEMs to test cable differences as they offer extreme transparency and therefore help me identify subtle differences between cables and sources. Right off the bat, I notice a similar overall sound signature that is very neutral, but not dry or anemic in any way. The first thing that hits you with the 1950 is an overwhelming sense of realism with a maximum dosage of resolution. The cable offers utmost transparency, speed, clarity and blends it with a huge sense of naturalness. Treble is extended, sparkly, but controlled while mids and bass have wonderfully pleasing texture and authority. Upon further listening, I can detect a very layered sound where nothing is muddled together, but rather extended in all directions and each instrument or vocal really stands out from one another. I get that sense of “air” everyone talks about quite clearly. You can hear it between different instruments. I have not heard a cable like this before and again while differences are fairly subtle in cables in general, this one is quite easy to pick up. For pairing, I don’t see how you could ever go wrong with a cable as technical and transparent as this, unless you already don’t like the intended sound signature of your IEM. Overall, I’m incredibly impressed and I think it fairly easily outclasses one of my favorite cables (Samurai III) in that it manages that perfect balance between transparency and sounding boring. Very lively, very lifelike and layers aplenty. Ergonomics are wonderful and it is a cable I would very happily own (and might someday). 

*Update*: paired with the Legend X, things get a little interesting since that would definitely be an IEM that falls into the “fun” category. 1950 tightens up the bass and gives it a bit more speed with less decay and that is something the Legend X can stand to have. Treble sparkle sounds slightly enhanced compared to the PlusSound X8 Silver + Gold I had on prior and the 1950 sounds more detailed, clear and open. I might slightly prefer the X8 pairing simply due to it adding more of the things Legend X is known for (bass slam, lush mids), but there’s little doubt that on a technical level the 1950 is a superior cable. Not example apples to apples as the 1950 costs nearly three times the price. 

*1960 (4-wire)*: Listening back to back with the 1950, I hear the 1960 being a tad softer around the edges, but strengthening the lower end of the spectrum. Every so slightly more natural and thicker, the 1960 falls somewhere into what I would call a “fun cable” in my layman terms and quite limited vocabulary at this hour of the evening. Bass notes get weight and authority, while mids get a touch of magic to make the cable fantastic with female vocals. Treble is slightly more polite than the 1950 and probably strikes a perfect balance of sparkle and thickness for most users. Being a treble head (but still appreciating the awesome extension), I prefer the upper registers of the 1950 by a hair. The 1960 offers sweetness and subtlety where the 1950 excels at putting you right at the concert when you close your eyes. Resolution is probably in the same ball park with my overworked ears hearing slightly more in the 1950. Obviously, I need both of these cables, no doubt in my mind! Ergonomics are first rate, again. No complaints at all. I can say with a fair bit of confidence that there is no IEM this cable would sound bad with. Resolution, transparency, a touch of warmth, incredible sound stage…it is no wonder this is a serious crowd pleaser (a crowd with deep pockets, albeit). I have heard that the 2-wire version of this cable is on the warmer side, but the 4-wire to me is on the acceptable side of neutral with excellent extension and again, vast soundstage with properly defined space between instruments. 

*Update*: paired with the Legend X, this is a warm, lush experience that takes tone and timbre to great levels. I hear less treble sparkle than both the 1950 and the X8, but the bass almost has an analogue feel to it. Slower decay, but some serious slam that will put you back in your seat like the Legend X is known for. I would say the 1950 is every so slightly more layered and detailed on the Legend X, but the 1960 takes away less of the magic that makes the Legend X so fun. For me, this pairing is a little on the warm side and I still prefer the X8 pairing (which is great for my wallet). The 1960 to me really shined better on the Katan given the sound signature differences. 

*1980 (4-wire)*: Switching over to the 1980, let’s first call out the ergonomics: it is not as comfortable and doesn’t disappear like the 1950 and 1960 does. Having the equivalent of 18awg wire, however, it is remarkably compact. I’ve had 18awg wires before in the Rhapsodio Golden and it is a fair bit larger and heavier. If ergonomics are a top priority, you will be better served by the other chosen decades in the 1900s above. Ergonomics aside, however, this is a very special cable. I would call the sound a little closer to traditional copper, but improved in nearly aspect. I notice the most authoritative sub-bass with this cable, with mid-bass that has proper punch. Where the 1950 offers a very clean, fast bass and the 1960 providing a natural, touch-of-warmth bass, the 1980 slams you pretty hard in the chest (well, eardrum) when the music calls for it. This is a fun cable that also offers incredible resolution which I am now starting to see a theme of in these 1900s cables. Slightly different sound signatures, but top of the line sound no matter which direction you go in. My ears tell me this cable is the most “colored,” but that isn’t a bad thing here because nothing suffers in return. Extension is brilliant in both directions, the cable is detailed and layered similarly to the two above and it’s just overall a damn fun listen. Honestly if I were going to spend my money on one of the three (and not all three like I WISH I could), it would probably be the 1980. The background is noticeably and at times eerily black with proper source music and it’s noticeable even to newbies like myself. I just find this cable to be such an incredible all-rounder and guess what, it’s the cheapest! I don’t want to do any disservice to the other cables in this tour by grouping the 19xx cables separately, but since I’ve been given the authority to write whatever I want then I am going to: this is my favorite of those three. It’s strange, because I’ve been called a treble-head on many occasions, but this cable is just so magical to listen to with an IEM on the neutral/brighter side. It pairs perfectly with the Katana and I hope to visit this cable with other IEMs after (and I will update), but for now it is putting the largest smile on my face. Maybe because I was born in the 1980s? Doubt it. 

*Update*: just revisited the 1980 with the Hyla CE-5 and wow. That IEM has a rather strong v-shape with an articulated and energetic treble as well as a very strong, precise dynamic-driver bass and the 1980 brought out the best of everything. I heard a very slight attenuation of treble, but it added some serious weight to the sub-bass while maintaining all the control the CE-5 is known for. It thickened everything up, but didn’t take away any resolution (quite the opposite) and made this one of the funnest sounding combinations I have heard in a while. I love this cable! 

*Update 2*: I also paired this with the Legend X and the pairing has wonderful synergy. The 1980 is again my favorite cable of the three with the Legend X. There’s textured, deep sub-bass rumble, sparkle up top with great extension and mids are clear and open. This cable feels closest to the Legend X’s signature, but extends it in both direction with better layering and separation. I would say it is on the same level as the X8 as far as sound signature, but it feels like it has a tad more control on the lower end. Subtle differences of course, but I am quite pleased to find that the 1980 has been an improvement on every IEM I have plugged it in to. Something else I notice on this is an extremely black background compared to the X8, especially with quality files and a quality source. I’m generalizing here, but this has the fun and enhanced bass of the 1960 while approaching (not surpassing) the level of detail and sparkle the 1950 provides. It’s a winner to me. 

*Xerxes (8-wire)*: Man this is a beautiful cable, and one of the softest most supple 8-wire configurations I’ve ever worn. Ergonomics are a 10 out of 10. I usually save the ergos for last, but dang this is a nice surprise judged next to the 1980. Back to back with the 1980, I hear less weight in the sub and mid-bass, but a similar mid-range that effortlessly showcases male and female vocals. I understand that this cable contains silver, copper and gold and upon listening, you really hear what PW is going for with that breakdown of materials. I hear sparkly and well-extended treble at the top end, vocals and mids with a hint of sweetness and bass with speed and precision, but not too much weight or thickness. This cable falls into the all-rounder category for me and it does so in a very coherent manner. I really like this cable. If I could have this cable with the bass of the 1980, it would definitely be a “take my money!” right now scenario. That said, it would pair very well with warm or neutral IEMs that you are not looking to accentuate bass on. Honestly this cable feels like a wonderful, easy to love tuning that pretty much does everything well – a jack of all trades with plenty of fun for the whole family. Did I mention that the ergonomics are to die for? It is also a ridiculously beautiful cable. 

*Xerxes (4-wire)*: The 4-wire has an overall tone that is similar to the 8-wire, but it has a little less warmth which is more noticeable in the lower registers. It’s slightly dryer up top, but simultaneously offers great extension with a very detailed treble and slightly more energetic upper mid-range. I would classify this as a leaner version of the 8-wire (well physically obviously) that shaved off a few pounds in the bass and mids. Treble extension is similar, but a tad more sparkly. I think this cable would pair very well with warmer or darker IEMs, but it certainly will not rob them of their warmth or intended tone. So in a sense, it’s a cable that does not drastically change any frequencies, but does still offer a fun and engaging sound that is easy to love (which yes I’ve said too much, sorry, these cables are great). Since I foolishly rated the 8-wire an ergonomic knockout at 10 out of 10, then the 4-wire has to be an 11. It is phenomenally comfortable, lightweight and pairs well with just about everything. Again I suggest a warmer or darker IEM, but for those of us who love treble sparkle I am still tapping my feet and bobbing my head with the Katana pairing. This is a versatile, highly-recommended cable and the price is within the “reasonable” category for all but insane cable nut jobs (like me). If I’m being honest, the treble sparkle on this cable is absolutely perfect for me. 

*Loki (8-wire)*: Loki 8-wire in back to back testing with the Xerxes 8-wire injects a sense of clarity and separation into the sound somewhat typical of an all-silver cable. I hear instantly more treble sparkle in this cable while also hearing a very controlled, layered sub-bass and mid-bass. Definitely an emphasis on clean sub-bass on this one and no mid-bass bleed on the Noble Katana. A very fast, precise and open sounding cable that takes the Katana to a very high technical level. I think sound signature on this most-closely matches up with the 1950. The cable is a very strong contender for electronic music with a very black background and superb extension in the top registers. I really like this cable and while it departs from the slightly more “musical” Xerxes, this is technicality done well. Vocals are clear and crisp with slightly less emotion than the Xerxes, but again it comes down to preference. There is no coldness to the sound, but it is not a warm cable either (maybe just a touch throughout). A “spring” cable in the famous Flinkenick’s high-end cable thread, if you will. Ergonomics on this cable seem to be the same world-class-standard of the Xerxes in that it is extremely soft and supple for an 8-wire and I feel I could wear this all day. For my hard-earned money, this might be the cable for me given the technical level it operates on while costing nearly 2/3 less than the 1959 (and ergonomics are better on this for me). 

*Loki (4-wire)*: Loki 4-wire departs from the 8-wire variant in a similar fashion as the Xerxes where warmth decreases slightly across the range. I hear a greater emphasis on mid-treble and sub-bass is slightly decreased in quantity. Overall, the cable maintains that sense of clarity and air of the 8-wire, just slightly less emphasis on the bass. Treble extension is very similar between the two with the 8-wire sounding a tad smoother and more organic. Overall I prefer the 8-wire by a very slight margin, but the 4-wire is one of the most comfortable cables I’ve used. Very soft, supple and of course half the weight of the 8-wire. This would be a perfect on-the-go cable offering great levels or clarity, no harshness of the older silver cables and for the most part a very smooth sound probably best paired with IEMs on the warmer side. I still enjoy it greatly on the Katana, but it’s tip-toeing toward the analytical side (which is fine for some genres). Overall I’m impressed with Loki in both configurations and the choices are aplenty. 

*Saladin (8-wire)*: Saladin 8-wire was a bit of a surprise to me upon first listen. The treble is quite prominent and while I had a preconceived notion that this would be a warm cable, I was wrong. Comfort is right up there with the rest of the new supple insulation and it feels just like the Loki and Xerxes. This sound signature would definitely be best paired with a warmer IEM. I hear a lot of treble sparkle, a slightly forward mid and somewhat attenuated mid-bass and sub-bass. This cable, in a sense, sounds like I expect SPC to sound. I prefer the Loki in that it shares the same clarity, but overall is more natural, detailed and smooth. The Saladin wasn’t a great pairing with the Katana IEM and sadly, I’m running out of time to try it with other IEMs. Know that despite the cable being primarily copper, this is not a warm cable. It is a very detailed, clarity-oriented cable that provides a transparent sound. 

*Saladin (4-wire)*: Maybe I’m going crazy in my old age, but this 4-wire version is a warmer cable than the 8-wire cable. Someone the other day that taking the same cable and making it an 8-wire instead of 4-wire was “unpredictable” and I think I’m seeing that here. Throughout this tour, all previous 8-wire versions sounded warmer with more prominent bass than their 4-wire counter parts. I hear that differently (and backwards) in this cable and I prefer the four wire. Treble is not as extended or sparkly as the 8-wire, but I’m getting similar forward mids with a neutral quantity of bass. Overall, it’s still a very neutral cable but has no peaks that I can detect. Super duper comfort as I have come to expect from these newest PW Audio cables and overall this is a really nice showing from a cable more on the “budget” side. If you had asked me three years ago if I would ever refer to a $300+ IEM cable as “budget,” I would have laughed. Well, that’s a story for another time! This cable is a great choice. The signature reminds me a lot of my Labkable Samurai III in that it is fairly flat/neutral/reference, but not cold or lifeless. 

*No. 5*: Barra has this down as an 8-wire, but the version that landed on my doorstep is 4-wire. I’ve had the No. 5 a few times before and it’s a high-value, high-performance copper cable. To me, the strengths of this cable are ergonomics, emotional vocals, a warmer mid-range and mid-bass and smooth treble. Going through the lineup, the No. 5 is not going to give you the all-out resolution or transparency as some of the others, but we’re talking a great value here for a sizeable upgrade over “stock” cables. I like the No. 5 and always have. I prefer to pair it with a neutral or brighter IEM, so it’s perfect on the Katana. 

*Helix (4-wire)*: Well here we go again, this cable is 8-wires, but who is really counting anymore? This is a very lively, exciting, detailed and energetic cable. I see in the decription it’s the same wire as the No. 5, but 28awg and 8-wires. This cable is awesome. It’s slightly tighter, crisper, better-defined and more layered than the 4-wire No. 5. I can clearly hear an increase in the bass control and overall it just sounds more airy and open. I really like this cable and might have to proclaim it the “winner” for the $300ish price point. It’s super comfortable, soft and lighter than the other 8-wires. It has those emotional and intimate vocals of the copper cables and still wonderful extension on both ends. Treble sparkle is somewhere around the level of the Loki to my ears and seriously, this cable might have been the most surprising of the bunch. I will buy one of these when they are available without question. 

*Copper 28 v2 (4-wire)*: The Copper 28 is a surprisingly detailed and clear-sounding copper cable that is light on its feet. I hear a controlled bass response, lush and detailed mid-range with clear vocals and a slightly smoothed out treble. Extension is a little attenuated up top, but bass is strong and hard hitting. This again sounds like you would expect a typical copper cable to sound, but it has a greater sense of transparency than a “stock” cable. I would this sounds like a slightly more neutral No. 5 and would pair well with a warmer IEM and it will keep the intimate vocals as such. Super comfortable and another great cable from PW Audio. 

*Final Thoughts*: I probably should have started with this, but my test rig generally consists of the Sony TA-ZH1ES desktop DAC/amp, balanced 4.4mm TRRRS output and Tidal FLAC files playing through a pair of Noble Katana IEMs. 

I would like to give a HUGE thanks to Music Sanctuary and Barra for the opportunity to test, oh, $10,000 worth of cables that would have normally been out of reach. It was a very fun exercise to test all these cables back to back and I learned quite a few things during the adventure. The first thing I learned was not to assume anything based on a cable’s wire count or material. I was surprised to hear differences that conflicted with my pre-conceived notions, but at the same time that was an educational experience. 

So, after a few short days with these cables, my favorites are the 1980, Loki 8-wire and the Helix. I think the biggest surprise was the Helix and its ability to provide a fantastic all-around tuning. But once trying a few of the budget options and then putting the 1980 back in my ears, it clearly is a tier above in resolution, clarity and just an awesome sound signature for me. Sure it’s v-shaped and makes the IEMs sound fun, but to me that is what it’s all about. Ergonomics are not in the same pleasant category of the Loki or many of the others, but I’m willing to suffer a bit for this sound. 

For anyone who already loves the sound signature of their IEM and wants to push its technical abilities to the absolute max, it’s 1950 (if you can take out a second mortgage on your house) or the Loki 8-wire. 1950 has a stunningly beautiful presentation of clarity and so does Loki for the most part. Those who want to buy an outstanding cable for between $300-400, Helix gets my vote for that kind of money. There is no bad choice here, not by a long shot. Well Guys, that’s about the best I can do staying up two hours past my bed time every night for a week to give you my honest, disorganized thoughts. 

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

@SeeSax so your favorite cable with the LX in order were 1980, Loki 8 wire, and Helix? I should have the tour kit within a few weeks and I need a new cable to go with my LX.  Can't wait to audition everything.


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> @SeeSax so your favorite cable with the LX in order were 1980, Loki 8 wire, and Helix? I should have the tour kit within a few weeks and I need a new cable to go with my LX.  Can't wait to audition everything.



Well I only tried the first five or so with LX, ran out of time. I'll try to test the Helix in the morning for you before I ship them off to next member.

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

SeeSax said:


> I am going to cross-post here because I just completed my first tour with the PW Audio cables (12 cables!) and have jotted down some rough, disorganized notes and figured it would be beneficial here too since I was afforded the luxury of testing the entire PW Audio lineup back to back. Enjoy, or stop reading if it's too boring
> 
> *1950 (4-wire)*: I kicked off my listening with a nice A/B comparison with the 1950 and the Labkable Samurai III plugged into my Noble Katana IEMs. These are my new go-to IEMs to test cable differences as they offer extreme transparency and therefore help me identify subtle differences between cables and sources. Right off the bat, I notice a similar overall sound signature that is very neutral, but not dry or anemic in any way. The first thing that hits you with the 1950 is an overwhelming sense of realism with a maximum dosage of resolution. The cable offers utmost transparency, speed, clarity and blends it with a huge sense of naturalness. Treble is extended, sparkly, but controlled while mids and bass have wonderfully pleasing texture and authority. Upon further listening, I can detect a very layered sound where nothing is muddled together, but rather extended in all directions and each instrument or vocal really stands out from one another. I get that sense of “air” everyone talks about quite clearly. You can hear it between different instruments. I have not heard a cable like this before and again while differences are fairly subtle in cables in general, this one is quite easy to pick up. For pairing, I don’t see how you could ever go wrong with a cable as technical and transparent as this, unless you already don’t like the intended sound signature of your IEM. Overall, I’m incredibly impressed and I think it fairly easily outclasses one of my favorite cables (Samurai III) in that it manages that perfect balance between transparency and sounding boring. Very lively, very lifelike and layers aplenty. Ergonomics are wonderful and it is a cable I would very happily own (and might someday).
> 
> ...



Marvellous write-up, my friend! I haven't finished reading the whole thing, but I completely agree with how you've described the 1950s. As you might expect, the pairing with Phantom is *otherworldly*.


----------



## proedros

SeeSax said:


> I am going to cross-post here because I just completed my first tour with the PW Audio cables (12 cables!) and have jotted down *some rough, disorganized notes* and figured it would be beneficial here too since I was afforded the luxury of testing the entire PW Audio lineup back to back. Enjoy, or stop reading if it's too boring
> 
> 
> For anyone who already loves the sound signature of their IEM and wants to push its technical abilities to the absolute max, it’s 1950 (if you can take out a second mortgage on your house) or the Loki 8-wire. 1950 has a stunningly beautiful presentation of clarity and so does Loki for the most part. *Those who want to buy an outstanding cable for between $300-400, Helix gets my vote for that kind of money.* There is no bad choice here, not by a long shot. Well Guys, that’s about the best I can do staying up two hours past my bed time every night for a week to give you my honest, *disorganized thoughts. *
> ...




beautiful write up man , congrats

if this is rough/disorganized , then Michael Jordan is a mediocre basketball player

one question , which budget cable would you pair with a neutral/detail monster like zeus xr that would benefit from some bass boost ?

again , outstanding impressions


----------



## ctaxxxx

SeeSax said:


> *Helix (4-wire)*: Well here we go again, this cable is 8-wires, but who is really counting anymore?* This is a very lively, exciting, detailed and energetic cable.* I see in the decription it’s the same wire as the No. 5, but 28awg and 8-wires. This cable is awesome. It’s slightly tighter, crisper, better-defined and more layered than the 4-wire No. 5. I can clearly hear an increase in the bass control and overall it just sounds more airy and open. I really like this cable and might have to proclaim it the “winner” for the $300ish price point. It’s super comfortable, soft and lighter than the other 8-wires. It has those emotional and intimate vocals of the copper cables and still wonderful extension on both ends. Treble sparkle is somewhere around the level of the Loki to my ears and seriously, this cable might have been the most surprising of the bunch. I will buy one of these when they are available without question.



So the Helix is similar to the Ares, in that it's an energetic copper? I might be interested in this. A more open-sounding No.5 does sound appealing. I've been hesitant with the Ares 8-wire, because it apparently sounds leaner in the mids than it's 4-wire counterpart.

When is the Helix set to release?


----------



## Ike1985

harishmirror said:


> Cable Atheist here, Balanced have more power output and different ciruit. Trust me these cables are exactly same as the expensive pos that I got. I tried night and day, beat by beat and not able to spot a micro molecule of difference on any part in my music. They are exactly the same and the cheaper ones have better build quality and sturdy as well.
> 
> I am going to list all my expensive pos cables in headfi itself and I am sure I will find buyers.



I was once in the same boat, a doubter.  Then I heard a bunch of TOTL cables.  Let me know what you're selling, I'm interested if you've got good stuff.  I still don't believe in digital cables beyond shielding though.


----------



## SeeSax

proedros said:


> beautiful write up man , congrats
> 
> if this is rough/disorganized , then Michael Jordan is a mediocre basketball player
> 
> ...



Thanks Buddy! Closest thing I have to Zeus is the Katana and I loved the new Helix. I was very impressed with the overall clarity and fun bass response. Also I would consider the Xerxes 4-wire as the 8-wire is definitely expensive. Hopefully @San Man receives them in a few days and continues the impressions. 

-Collin-


----------



## harishmirror (Oct 26, 2018)

Ike1985 said:


> I was once in the same boat, a doubter.  Then I heard a bunch of TOTL cables.  Let me know what you're selling, I'm interested if you've got good stuff.  I still don't believe in digital cables beyond shielding though.




Thanks for the interest mate, I have a leonidas, ares ii + and a Sony/Kimber.. All mmcx to 4.4, will tag you in my classifieds post shortly. I will also offer a free $25 mmcx/4.4 cable with my leonidas if you are interested. You can asses them and post your honest opinion.


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> So the Helix is similar to the Ares, in that it's an energetic copper? I might be interested in this. A more open-sounding No.5 does sound appealing. I've been hesitant with the Ares 8-wire, because it apparently sounds leaner in the mids than it's 4-wire counterpart.
> 
> When is the Helix set to release?



That is how I would describe it. I’ve never heard the Ares 8-wire, but from what I read I agree with you. I’m going to buy the Helix for sure and I’m going to TRY not to buy the 1980  

-Collin-


----------



## proedros

i am officially sold on Helix for my zeus

thanx colin


----------



## audio123

Recent pairings 

Aroma Musical Box Early + PW Loki
Acoustune HS1551 CU + Han Sound Redcore


----------



## aaf evo

Is there no dedicated PW Audio cable thread?


----------



## Deezel177

aaf evo said:


> Is there no dedicated PW Audio cable thread?



Unfortunately not. I've been posting here as far as PWAudio's concerned. Considering their wide acclaim, I'll consider starting one soon. Thanks for the shout.


----------



## DeepSouth

Why do all these top of the line cable companies use brass connectors instead of copper? Furutech makes copper 2.5mm TRRS, but no one seems to use them. Eidolic seems to be the common choice.


----------



## bvng3540

Just FYI to those that want to used eidolic, especially the 3.5mm, their 3rd ring is a little bigger than other 3.5mm, it wont even fit smartphone that still have 3.5mm and if you used it on your dap, your 3.5mm on your dap will get bigger and when you used other 3.5mm it will become loose, when move around sound will come and go, so stay away from it


----------



## SeeSax

I am sad panda today, after noticing that the plating of my most expensive 4.4mm plug is coming off: 

 

Damn you, Furutech. I guess this is common for Rhodium? The usual question: will this affect the sound? Argh. 

-Collin-


----------



## rtjoa

SeeSax said:


> I am sad panda today, after noticing that the plating of my most expensive 4.4mm plug is coming off:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is a common issue with Furutech and I have the same problem with my 4.4mm and 2.5mm Furutech.

I am using Pentaconn OFC on my Brimar cables. It is slightly more expensive but I think it is better.


----------



## SeeSax

Thanks for the heads-up. The OCD in me will need to have this plug swapped out immediately, but my new-found budget-conscious self will hold off for a while. What a bummer on a $75 plug. 

-Collin-


----------



## rtjoa

SeeSax said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. The OCD in me will need to have this plug swapped out immediately, but my new-found budget-conscious self will hold off for a while. What a bummer on a $75 plug.
> 
> -Collin-


IMO it does not affect the sound. Yeah I know how it feels. My furutech is worse than yours. Next to Furutech is Pentaconn OFC which is cost about $100


----------



## pithyginger63

the rhodium on my furutech 3.5mm on my aegis is wearing off, but the rhodium on my plussound cable hasn't


----------



## Likeimthere

SeeSax said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. The OCD in me will need to have this plug swapped out immediately, but my new-found budget-conscious self will hold off for a while. What a bummer on a $75 plug.
> 
> -Collin-



Man I’m OCD too, and that ish would bug the heck out of me... and play mind tricks with me...


----------



## SeeSax

Fun morning or A/B testing with the bespoke EA Thor/Leo 8-wire and Beat Audio Prima Dona 8-wire with the Legend X. 

Time to get out the soldering iron and make a 16-wire bespoke version of all three wires  


 

-Collin-


----------



## rtjoa

Brimar new cable ERA KILLER for Thailand market with price tag $2350.
(Taken from Rudi's group on FB)


----------



## rtjoa

IgeNeLL said:


> Hi, could you give some impression about the Omini King 10 and Ultimate 10 compared to GrandMaster, I only have chance to listen to Grand Master up to now.


Sorry for late reply @IgeNeLL. My Grandmaster has JH 4pin connector and I dont have an adapter to convert 2 pin to 4 pin for comparison. I hardly use my Grand Master so I lend it to my cousin.

If you like Brimar sound signature, please try Ultimate and Omni King. 

There is a new Ultimate limited edition. Here is some information from Rudi's group on FB.
Omni King is more to vinyl feeling but Ultimate added the definition with wider extension to high & low freq, giving you both the feeling of vinyl & CD
Limited version further adds the dimension and transient response, like a huge speaker performing


----------



## Marat Sar

SeeSax said:


> Fun morning or A/B testing with the bespoke EA Thor/Leo 8-wire and Beat Audio Prima Dona 8-wire with the Legend X.
> 
> Time to get out the soldering iron and make a 16-wire bespoke version of all three wires
> 
> ...



How did that go? In the market for an 8 wire silver and I hear the DHC sound is a bit dull treble-wise...


----------



## audio123 (Nov 12, 2018)

Hi everyone, here is the PW Audio Cables Discussion Thread!


----------



## pithyginger63 (Nov 12, 2018)

I noticed the oil above my ears hardens the sleeving of my cables, anyone have this happen? The cable stiffens and creates pressure points above my ears. Any remedies? I'm thinking like a nylon sleeve or something.


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> I noticed the oil above my ears hardens the sleeving of my cables, anyone have this happen? The cable stiffens and creates pressure points above my ears. Any remedies? I'm thinking like a nylon sleeve or something.


nope, too bad for you. any plastic (PVC/PE/whatever else p... based) will harden over time.


----------



## pithyginger63

tim0chan said:


> nope, too bad for you. any plastic (PVC/PE/whatever else p... based) will harden over time.


rip... it hardened within a month tho...


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> rip... it hardened within a month tho...


as i said, oil. pvc base like effect and pw and now pluusound are the fastest


----------



## Returnity

How would you guys rate the sony 4.4mm kimber cable (muc-m12sb1) as far as the copper cables go? I'm thinking about using them between my WM1A and Andromeda in order to squeeze a little bit more oomph in the lower frequencies. 

I've been searching for a while but could not find any info about the purity of its copper fibers or conductivity measurements. I'd appreciate the help


----------



## noplsestar

Hi, anyone here with Handound RedCore impressions? I wonder how this beautiful cable would pair with the PP8 ... any thoughts are helpful. (There are Black Friday deals at music sanctuary, so my wallet is in pain right now)


----------



## pithyginger63

noplsestar said:


> Hi, anyone here with Handound RedCore impressions? I wonder how this beautiful cable would pair with the PP8 ... any thoughts are helpful. (There are Black Friday deals at music sanctuary, so my wallet is in pain right now)


red core is Singapore exclusive right?


----------



## noplsestar

pithyginger63 said:


> red core is Singapore exclusive right?


as far as I know, yes


----------



## Deezel177

noplsestar said:


> Hi, anyone here with Handound RedCore impressions? I wonder how this beautiful cable would pair with the PP8 ... any thoughts are helpful. (There are Black Friday deals at music sanctuary, so my wallet is in pain right now)



Here’s @ryanjsoo’s review from THL! https://theheadphonelist.com/hansound-redcore-review-mesmerising/ 



pithyginger63 said:


> red core is Singapore exclusive right?



I believe it’s a Music Sanctuary exclusive rather than a Singapore exclusive. You can purchase it internationally as long as it’s from MS.


----------



## audio123 (Nov 22, 2018)

My take on the Han Sound Redcore. Enjoy! 







noplsestar said:


> Hi, anyone here with Handound RedCore impressions? I wonder how this beautiful cable would pair with the PP8 ... any thoughts are helpful. (There are Black Friday deals at music sanctuary, so my wallet is in pain right now)


You can read my review above. Cheers!



pithyginger63 said:


> red core is Singapore exclusive right?


It is a Singapore exclusive collaboration cable between Han Sound & Music Sanctuary.


----------



## rtjoa

noplsestar said:


> Hi, anyone here with Handound RedCore impressions? I wonder how this beautiful cable would pair with the PP8 ... any thoughts are helpful. (There are Black Friday deals at music sanctuary, so my wallet is in pain right now)


https://audio123reviews.com/2018/11...PaI6vDdgK0szrP-N9LCMuIf_aw-u2HRFw9mwBivoU4cSA


----------



## F700 (Nov 27, 2018)

OC Studio Zeus UE X in 4.4mm with Final E5000. A slightly over USD 500.- combo which will make amateurs of smooth, detailed sound and impressive imaging very happy. Proper amplification needed for the E5000, though.


----------



## F700 (Nov 27, 2018)

Returnity said:


> How would you guys rate the sony 4.4mm kimber cable (muc-m12sb1) as far as the copper cables go? I'm thinking about using them between my WM1A and Andromeda in order to squeeze a little bit more oomph in the lower frequencies.
> 
> I've been searching for a while but could not find any info about the purity of its copper fibers or conductivity measurements. I'd appreciate the help



Hey, I am using the Kimber cable with Sony XBA-N3AP and Sony ZX300/Q5-AM3B. Not my main rig, but the sound actually has more weight with the Kimbers as other Silver cables I own (Lavricable and OC Studio Zeus). The clarity will suffer a bit though. The Kimber is a good quality cable, solid and durable, bringing exactly the effect desired.

Depending on your tastes and music genres played, it could be a very potent combination. For the price, you also might try OC Studio Orpheus before pulling the trigger for the Kimber (living in Turkey, it might be difficult though). Orpheus is cheaper and OC Studio built quality is flawless. Forza Audioworks in Poland also make impressively well built and sounding cables. Price tag is pretty smooth too.


----------



## chaiyuta

@F700 : Welcome to OC Studio Fanclub~


----------



## Blaze182

audio123 said:


> My take on the Han Sound Redcore. Enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great review!

I'm not sure if you can comment, but any thoughts on Redcore v. Reference 8 by ALO?


----------



## audio123

Blaze182 said:


> Great review!
> 
> I'm not sure if you can comment, but any thoughts on Redcore v. Reference 8 by ALO?


Sorry, I have not tried the Reference 8 yet!


----------



## tomcourtenay

Hi! 


Thanks to Nic and to Sezai i have spent the last couple of weeks i tried a Silverfi R1 Cable and despite ergonomics being a little rough (specially on the guides which need some work to fit my ears), weight and microphonics (i think about it as a “home” cable, more than on the go) the sound is really special..


All test were made with a Lotto Paw Gold, Empire Ears Phantom and Earsonics EM10.


In terms of overall presentation i would say it has a neutral tonality with a little hint of warm (specially on the mids) , but at contrary with other manufacturers neutral cables and despite of having a very good technical foundation in terms of clarity and resolution it sound always remain smooth, very organic.


On bass department i found bass extension very good, with a clear focus on subbass over midbass. Punch is good and quality is great and it never bleeds in to the mids.


Mids are positioned a little forward on the mix and in my opinion are “the star of the show”, specially the voices are so emotional, with the exact body to keep them amazingly clear and very lush at the same time. Instruments sound very good too, neither too thin, neither too warm with a trueness in tone very difficult to find in other cables that i tried.


Treble as the bass is neutrally positioned, it have very good extension and its wonderfully detailed but always mantaining a gentler tone and never showing any peaks or harshness, contributing to make all the presentation very cohesive and coherent with the rest of the spectrum.


Technical aspects as layering, resolution and clarity is top notch, its soundstage is very 3D and holographic, is not to wide but very deep, and blackness of the background is great making the notes very vivid, very well separated and  smooth at the same time.


If Sezai could improve the construction of the guides, being a little less rough and more gentle to the ear, i think the R1 is a very good option for someone looking for a neutral signature, very solid technical attributes and a very nice tone.


----------



## tomcourtenay (Dec 11, 2018)

Double post!


----------



## twister6

Erik @Wyville is on a [cable] roll with another detailed write up of @PLUSSOUND X6 TriCopper, just shared on Tw6 and soon on Head-fi.


----------



## TAsme

tomcourtenay said:


> Hi!
> 
> 
> Thanks to Nic and to Sezai i have spent the last couple of weeks i tried a Silverfi R1 Cable and despite ergonomics being a little rough (specially on the guides which need some work to fit my ears), weight and microphonics (i think about it as a “home” cable, more than on the go) the sound is really special..
> ...



I'm not going to make myself very popular with my post here but I just have to give my two cents.. As a previous owner of a IEM-X i can just say that the build quality and wearability of the cable was utter garbage. There was not the slightest chance to get a good fit with the cable, nor a slider installed so it could get any better. Noone on earth has ears like the cable was built around - and no, I didnt plug the cable wrong. Second problem was that the 2pin connectors were just fixed with a tape and the tape went off. 

Overall the 519 dollar (including remitting fees and shipping) were the worst I have ever spent on any "HiFi" equipment


----------



## bahamot

First custom cable in the house, Crosslambda Illusion.


----------



## F700

TAsme said:


> I'm not going to make myself very popular with my post here but I just have to give my two cents.. As a previous owner of a IEM-X i can just say that the build quality and wearability of the cable was utter garbage. There was not the slightest chance to get a good fit with the cable, nor a slider installed so it could get any better. Noone on earth has ears like the cable was built around - and no, I didnt plug the cable wrong. Second problem was that the 2pin connectors were just fixed with a tape and the tape went off.
> 
> Overall the 519 dollar (including remitting fees and shipping) were the worst I have ever spent on any "HiFi" equipment


What cable and what IEM are you talking about? I did not understand sorry.


----------



## Wyville

F700 said:


> What cable and what IEM are you talking about? I did not understand sorry.


The cable is a SilverFi IEM-X. The main complaints about the SilverFi cables is that they chose to build them for sound quality first and ergonomics second.

I expect to get the IEM-X and R1 in for a review, so I will try it out and see for myself, but some people have a lot of problems with the ergonomics.


----------



## bahamot

Can cable made amp’s hiss sound gone? This crosslambda illusion with 4.4mm connector seems to do just that.


----------



## TAsme

Wyville said:


> The cable is a SilverFi IEM-X. The main complaints about the SilverFi cables is that they chose to build them for sound quality first and ergonomics second.
> 
> I expect to get the IEM-X and R1 in for a review, so I will try it out and see for myself, but some people have a lot of problems with the ergonomics.



best of luck sir!
I hope he has improved building quality and ergonomics meanwhile. I know that it is still not even possible to buy it with a simple slider so i somehow doubt it


----------



## saktanbers (Dec 13, 2018)

TAsme said:


> I'm not going to make myself very popular with my post here but I just have to give my two cents.. As a previous owner of a IEM-X i can just say that the build quality and wearability of the cable was utter garbage. There was not the slightest chance to get a good fit with the cable, nor a slider installed so it could get any better. Noone on earth has ears like the cable was built around - and no, I didnt plug the cable wrong. Second problem was that the 2pin connectors were just fixed with a tape and the tape went off.
> 
> Overall the 519 dollar (including remitting fees and shipping) were the worst I have ever spent on any "HiFi" equipment





bahamot said:


> Can cable made amp’s hiss sound gone? This crosslambda illusion with 4.4mm connector seems to do just that.



This post seems like a hate letter. I would like to point out that all SilverFi products are under warranty for the original owner. If a SilverFi owner has a problem with our cable he/she should inform us and ship that product to us for check and repair. Other than  misuse, wrong use  all of our products are under our guarantee. I am sorry to say that we have NOT received any info from the writer of this post. But he tries to stain our brand not even informing us. Maybe it was because of his misuse of our cable, maybe not. We can only see the result after checking the cable. During ordering of a iem cable we always request a 1/1 scale of an ear angle to ensure the best fit to the ear. In this case we have not received any info on that.
We have a certain form of our cable coming from the structural design. We can't and won't change this conductor technique. It's there for our uncompromising sound quality. All future users should take it as it is.

We are waiting for the IEM-X to be sent for our inspection and a possible repair.

Regards.

Silverfi Cable
S. Saktanber


----------



## bahamot

saktanbers said:


> This post seems like a hate letter. I would like to point out that all SilverFi products are under warranty for the original owner. If a SilverFi owner has a problem with our cable he/she should inform us and ship that product to us for check and repair. Other than  misuse, wrong use  all of our products are under our guarantee. I am sorry to say that we have NOT received any info from the writer of this post. But he tries to stain our brand not even informing us. Maybe it was because of his misuse of our cable, maybe not. We can only see the result after checking the cable. During ordering of a iem cable we always request a 1/1 scale of an ear angle to ensure the best fit to the ear. In this case we have not received any info on that.
> We have a certain form of our cable coming from the structural design. We can't and won't change this conductor technique. It's there for our incompromides sound quality. All future users should take it as it is.
> 
> We are waiting for the IEM-X to be sent for our inspection and a posssible repair.
> ...


Misquoted me? My post didn't have anything to do with Silverfi cable.


----------



## Wyville

saktanbers said:


> This post seems like a hate letter. I would like to point out that all SilverFi products are under warranty for the original owner. If a SilverFi owner has a problem with our cable he/she should inform us and ship that product to us for check and repair. Other than  misuse, wrong use  all of our products are under our guarantee. I am sorry to say that we have NOT received any info from the writer of this post. But he tries to stain our brand not even informing us. Maybe it was because of his misuse of our cable, maybe not. We can only see the result after checking the cable. *During ordering of a iem cable we always request a 1/1 scale of an ear angle to ensure the best fit to the ear. *In this case we have not received any info on that.
> We have a certain form of our cable coming from the structural design. We can't and won't change this conductor technique. It's there for our uncompromising sound quality. All future users should take it as it is.
> 
> We are waiting for the IEM-X to be sent for our inspection and a possible repair.
> ...


The bold part seems to be very important to be aware of when buying a cable from someone else or (as in my case) when reviewing demo cables. If I understand it correctly the bend around the ear is usually made specifically for the each customer? So when I receive the demo cables I should take into account that the bend is not an optimal fit for my ears. Is that correct?


----------



## saktanbers

bahamot said:


> Misquoted me? My post didn't have anything to do with Silverfi cable.



Sorry bahamot. My bad.  It was Tasme who wrote those lines.


----------



## saktanbers

Wyville said:


> The bold part seems to be very important to be aware of when buying a cable from someone else or (as in my case) when reviewing demo cables. If I understand it correctly the bend around the ear is usually made specifically for the each customer? So when I receive the demo cables I should take into account that the bend is not an optimal fit for my ears. Is that correct?


Yes. The bend is unique for every customer like in the case of  custom inner ear monitors.


----------



## Wyville

saktanbers said:


> Yes. The bend is unique for every customer like in the case of  custom inner ear monitors.


Thanks! I will be sure to note that in my review.


----------



## TAsme (Dec 13, 2018)

I did sell the cable.

I can publish the mail conversation of my order if wanted. I was not asked to send anything regarding my ears just to make that clear. Maybe this procedure is new? I did purchase the cable over a year ago

Second it was not a hate post against your compnay. I like the idea of your cables and wish you success with it. It was just an information to other users that the build quality and ergonomy was not what you can expect from a 500+ USD product


----------



## Ike1985

I arrived home yesterday night to find the tour kit on my door. Everything looks alright, havent had a chance to listen yet because of the holidays.  Most interested in venom vs 1980 & 1960.


----------



## noplsestar

The Hansound Redcore pairs really well with the PP8. I got them with a black friday deal 15% off but had only today the chance to test them because I didn't have my IEMs with me. The music-sanctuary guys are great, as always.
Just two things: The cable is a bit short, if you ask me. When I stand and am holding the DAP in my hands, then the cable is straightened. (I´m not that tall) But it´s no deal breaker as the sound is so exceptionally good and I can adapt. The other thing is that the cable near the Furutech plug looks a bit worn off, like it is a second hand cable, on one point even the cable itself looks through. I have never worn it yet, so I guess it has to be happened during production. It´s just a tiny bit but I think that this also shouldn't happen in this price category, am I right? I won't send it back though, because it´s ok with me (and I don't want to part with them anymore for a minute)


----------



## pithyginger63

Quick question, what happened with Brimar/Whiplash? When did they merge? I missed it. 

Also, what's with the weird prices on their website? $12,345????


----------



## SeeSax

Happy Sunday, thought I would drop in with my latest cable madness (and hopefully last for a while). I present to you, the Rhapsodio Silver Wizard. Shares a lot with the Copper Wizard mk2 (which I find much better ergonomically than the first version) in that it has a fairly thick and heavy sleeving material. But where this cable shines is a completely black background, incredible detail and resolution, superb control of the lower frequencies (on the Legend X in my use case especially) and, well, a cool wooden box. 


 

My goal was to make the sound of the Legend X a little less boomy and more articulate in the treble sparkle. This has helped me succeed in that goal. It's a really nice cable, albeit for a silly high retail price of $1,700. Either way I'm happy with it. Sammy makes awesome cables. 

Also have one of David's latest cables from Triton Audio using a really nice ~24awg copper litz that might be the most comfortable cable I have ever worn in my life. Currently working out a good pairing and will post some photos/impressions of that soon. It sure would go well with the Dita Dream I wish I never sold...

Happy new year everyone!

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> Happy Sunday, thought I would drop in with my latest cable madness (and hopefully last for a while). I present to you, the Rhapsodio Silver Wizard. Shares a lot with the Copper Wizard mk2 (which I find much better ergonomically than the first version) in that it has a fairly thick and heavy sleeving material. But where this cable shines is a completely black background, incredible detail and resolution, superb control of the lower frequencies (on the Legend X in my use case especially) and, well, a cool wooden box.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Comparisons to this with the PW Audio 1950s?


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> Comparisons to this with the PW Audio 1950s?



I had them a few months apart so I don’t think I could come up with anything meaningful, sadly  

I can say with some degree of confidence that the sound signatures are comparable in that they’re neutral, sparkly cables with great sub-bass control and texture. Probably on the same level for resolution. Better ergonomics on 1950 for sure. 

-Collin-


----------



## proedros

if you need a 1700$ cable to make a 2300$ ciem sound good - in the areas where it ain't - then you probably need anoher ciem ?

 cable roling is the most insane area in here me thinks

(incidents like this make again very grateful that Zeus sounds good with a 300$ cable , plus Zeus only cost me like 1400$ to get new)


----------



## SeeSax

proedros said:


> if you need a 1700$ cable to make a 2300$ ciem sound good - in the areas where it ain't - then you probably need anoher ciem ?
> 
> cable roling is the most insane area in here me thinks
> 
> (incidents like this make again very grateful that Zeus sounds good with a 300$ cable , plus Zeus only cost me like 1400$ to get new)



Let's not confuse need with desire. The Legend X sounds incredible with the Ares II it comes with, as I mentioned in my 5-star review. No one needs a $1,700 cable to make an IEM sound good. Just like no one needs a $2,300 IEM to listen to music. 

Two common themes to your posts: people who do not share your viewpoint are "insane," and you are extremely thankful for your Zeus. On the former point, come on now, everyone on Head-Fi can be considered insane, so let's all embrace it and get back to the cat memes. 

Nonetheless, I still love you @proedros  

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

proedros said:


> if you need a 1700$ cable to make a 2300$ ciem sound good - in the areas where it ain't - then you probably need anoher ciem ?
> 
> cable roling is the most insane area in here me thinks
> 
> (incidents like this make again very grateful that Zeus sounds good with a 300$ cable , plus Zeus only cost me like 1400$ to get new)



I agree in a sense that cable rolling offers the worst price to sound adjustment ratio out there but no one “needs” expensive cables. However, I’m in a position where I can afford the 1950s to squeeze out that extra % of sound I am craving to take an IEM i already love to the next level. For me, that is worth it alone.


----------



## honeyjjack

proedros said:


> if you need a 1700$ cable to make a 2300$ ciem sound good - in the areas where it ain't - then you probably need anoher ciem ?
> 
> cable roling is the most insane area in here me thinks
> 
> (incidents like this make again very grateful that Zeus sounds good with a 300$ cable , plus Zeus only cost me like 1400$ to get new)



Well all audio equipment has flaws. For me its how much i can get closer to my ideal sound regardless of price. But yes if you can do it, like with the zeus thats great.


----------



## proedros

SeeSax said:


> Nonetheless, I still love you @proedros
> 
> -Collin-



you are also one of my fav people here Colin , if i ever win the lottery i would love to visit Bay Area and talk cables and insanity 

stay crazy ,

Proedros


----------



## ayang02

I wish more silver cables utilize mono-crystal silver, especially the type of mono-crystal silver Crystal Cable uses for their Dream Duet. The dream duet is truly a game changer; I think I've finally found a cable that (at least feels like) unleashes the full potential of my IEMs. 

This is not your typical bright/harsh silver cable. I know not all silver cables are harsh, but as far as I know, different cable makers use different geometries to try to get away from making their silver cables sound harsh. Some even add a hint of gold in their silver wires in attempt to hide that harshness. To me it seems the root cause of this harshness is the quality of the silver wires being used and mono-crystal silver wires as demonstrated by the dream duet seems like a great solution.

Here's my wish for 2019: more mono-crystal silver cables please!


----------



## Wyville (Jan 2, 2019)

A few days ago I got in the SilverFi R1 and IEM-X, and finally I got around to a short listening session with the R1 and wanted to share some of my first impressions.

I have been very eager to get an opportunity to try some of SilverFi's cables and not just because a few of my friends around here keep teasing me with their R4's and R5's, but because of my own preference for prioritising tonality and realism over "in your face" resolution. That is also why I bought the Empire Ears Phantom, for instance. From reading about SilverFi I understood them to prioritise tone and timbre to achieve just the sort of sound I look for in my gear. So I was very pleased to receive these two cables and get a chance to pit them against some of my favourite cables.

_R1_
First off, I have to hand it to SilverFi for making a stunningly beautiful cable. It is a work of art and very much in keeping with the true artisan character of the company SilverFi. It does come with one obvious (and often criticised) drawback and that is that the ergonomics are not among the best out there. This cable is clearly one to use at home behind a desk, or better, lying on the sofa listening to music with your eyes closed. That is what I do and I did not have too many issues. Those issues that I did have such as the cable not looping tightly around my ears and the microphonics (exacerbated by the cable not looping tightly) should be considerably better when the fit is customised to fit your ears, which with demo units is of course impossible to achieve.

I personally would never buy a cable such as the R1 for on-the-go use because I feel the advantages of such a cable would be somewhat wasted if I could not savour the music without distraction. For me the R1 is all about giving my full attention to the music and immersing myself in the image it creates.

So expectations were pretty high and sound-wise I feel the R1 immediately lived up to those. I paired it with my Phantom and I know those IEMs really well, so it was easy to see how the R1 influenced the sound. The R1 gave my Phantom a very large and especially deep stage with outstanding imaging. When listening to classical music such as Paganini's Violin Concerto No.4, I felt that it was yet another step up from my usual cables such as the Effect Audio Eros II 8-wire. Moreover, in terms of tonality the R1 can be described as a "warm silver" cable, but I think that does not quite do it justice. Together with the Phantom the tonality is exceptionally good in the warm-natural way that I prefer. Instruments have body to them and convey the emotion of the music really well. Each instrument is well place in the soundscape and has enough body to not be lost in empty space, while also the clarity to rise above the others when needed. The music flows organically, smoothly and yet with great definition to it. The R1 is a highly resolving cable that much like the Phantom does not push the details forward, but lets the listener find those at their leisure. This is how I personally want my music to sound because it is incredibly immersive and makes the emotion of it tangible.

This is only a very brief "first impression" that I wanted to share because SilverFi is not as well known as some of the other companies, but based on these first impressions I certainly feel they warrant more attention among us "cable connoisseurs". I immediately loved the synergy between the R1 and my Phantom as much as I did the synergy between my Phantom and Leonidas II. In fact, at first glance there seem to be some similarities in the sound, although I have to be careful because the R1 is terminated in 3.5mm SE and my Leonidas II in 2.5mm balanced, which makes quite a difference with my AK70 DAP. Still, it will be very interesting as I get more time in with both cables.


----------



## Ike1985 (Jan 3, 2019)

With regard to the previous discussion, I think the biggest benefit I notice from TOTL cables I the black background and improved resolution/separation.  Also last night I had my first listen with the pw audio cables as I've been away with family for the holidays and I find both the 1950 and the 1980 to be exceptional.  1950 a bit less mid centric, a bit less full and a bit less sub-bassy than the 1980.  I prefer the 80 over the 50 due to its dynamic sound with denser notes, slightly increased sub bass and holographic yet wide presentation.  Exceptional layering and separation on both as should be expected with totl cables.  Both are near the same level as the Han Sound venom with regard to blackness of the background.  All thoughts VERY preliminary and may change as I listen to them.  As expected there is MORE of a difference between the Han Sound Venom and the 50/80 than between the 50/80 themselves.  Unfortunately I have t send them both off very soon, so I'll have less time tha expected with both.


----------



## Wyville

Ike1985 said:


> With regard to the previous discussion, I think the biggest benefit I notice from TOTL cables I the black background and improved resolution/separation.  Also last night I had my first listen with the ps audio cables as I've been away with family for the holidays and I find both the 1950 and the 1980 to be exceptional.  1950 a bit less mid centric, a bit less full and a bit less sub-bassy than the 1980.  I prefer the 80 over the 50 due to its dynamic sound with denser notes, slightly increased sub bass and holographic yet wide presentation.  Exceptional layering and separation on both as should be expected with totl cables.  Both are near the same level as the Han Sound venom with regard to blackness of the background.  All thoughts VERY preliminary and may change as I listen to them.  As expected there is MORE of a difference between the Han Sound Venom and the 50/80 than between the 50/80 themselves.  Unfortunately I have t send them both off very soon, so I'll have less time tha expected with both.


What I find so interesting about SilverFi is that there is a notable difference in the character of a cable such as the R1 compared to the Venom and it depends on personal preferences which cable will be best suited. For instance, while I love the R1 and Leonidas II with my Phantom, I did not care for the synergy with the Venom or Horus. While more expensive, I felt that the latter two cables made the Phantom a little dry. For my preferences the music did not flow as well, although I can see how it would appeal more to someone who prefers a different presentation (or simply has different IEMs, as synergy is always key).


----------



## Likeimthere

Wyville said:


> What I find so interesting about SilverFi is that there is a notable difference in the character of a cable such as the R1 compared to the Venom and it depends on personal preferences which cable will be best suited. For instance, while I love the R1 and Leonidas II with my Phantom, I did not care for the synergy with the Venom or Horus. While more expensive, I felt that the latter two cables made the Phantom a little dry. For my preferences the music did not flow as well, although I can see how it would appeal more to someone who prefers a different presentation (or simply has different IEMs, as synergy is always key).



You know I would have never believed the cable difference until I heard it for myself. . . and its interesting because everyone hears differently and its all different across the board. . . . its all a synergy work of are we are attempting to accomplish. . . we have some Picassos. . .  and we have some Crayolas. . .


----------



## rtjoa

pithyginger63 said:


> Quick question, what happened with Brimar/Whiplash? When did they merge? I missed it.
> 
> Also, what's with the weird prices on their website? $12,345????


Brimar bought Whiplash early last year. They have releases several new cables since merging.

The website has not done yet and the price has not been updated. I have no idea why it takes so long. They were busy with several audio shows in HK, Taiwan, Japan, China and Korea.

I am waiting for my new cable which should arrive this month.


----------



## duaned

So if there were 2 8 core cables ( same dia.,) in my posession, 1 was all copper and the other was a hybrid, what sound signature differences would I expect? Clearly the Hybrid would look better, but the sound?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

any idea how to order an *Acoustune *2.5mm MMCX Cable for people in the USA?


----------



## Ike1985 (Jan 11, 2019)

So here are my final thoughts with regard to the 1950, 1960 and 1980 cables now that they are on their way to the next person. All were paired with the 64 audio A18t and the Hugo2.

1980:
Lush, full, dense midrange and lower frequencies. Good illumination on the edge of notes (good quantity in the high end) creating good in-stage separation between instruments. Vocals clear and forward enough to produce that 3d effect that I love so much about the Zeus XR monitor. To my ears, more bass than the 80 and defintely more than the 50. Blackets background between the three: 50, 60 and 80. Best value of the 3. Exceptional resolution especially in the bass and mids.

1950:
Less dense notes than the 1960, density on par with the 1980 maybe slightly less. Slightly less bass than the 60, defintely less than the 80. Also with excellent sonic image separation, slightly more silvery sound and slightly more quantity in the highs than the 60 or 80. Brightest background between the 3: 50, 60 and 80. Excels in stage dimensions, layering and separation, definitely the best of the three in this regard. Vocals also 3d. Exceptional resolution across the spectrum. I see it as an exceptional technical cable much like the venom, with an ever ever so slight V shaped signature, nearly a flat V.  I LOVE the material they used to wrap this cable, it's soft but grainy when you run your finger down it, beautiful material, they should use it on all their cables.

1960:
Moderate density notes across from low's to high's. To my ears the most clinical of the 3. Excellent vocal reproduction as per the other 2 PW cables, mids slightly less forward than the other two. Most linear (nothing forward, nothing back, lows mids and highs on the same plane). Exceptional resolution across the spectrum.

Vs Han sound Venom & other thoughts:
To my ears the Venom remains king of black backgrounds.  All 3 PW audio cables have more illumination around the edges of notes, a slightly brighter sound making details stand out more. Some might say all 3 and especially the 80/50 are more dynamic than the venom. The venom is definitely skewed toward creating a dark sound with slightly more mid and lower bass quantity, while the PW cables also have good bass quantity but more quantity in the high's (as per typitcal high quality silver sound). People used to a typical high quality silver sound will be more familiar with the PW cable sound on the 50/60/80 while the venom is a more dark, smooth and rich sound with good bass quantity, dense full notes and: exceptional resolution, massive stage, layering, separation and density of notes. The Venom has the largest stage of all, no doubt about that-the 1950 is the closest but still doesn't have the gulf like spacing between notes or massive dimensions of the Venom.  The greater quantity in the highs is more apparent on the PW cables and probably the biggest immediate difference most will notice.  Love my Venom and I will be keeping it but I wouldn't mind having the 1980 as a slightly brighter compliment as I'm still getting the awesome vocal effects with the 80 as I was used to with the Venom. IMO among the 3 PW cables, the 1980 will pair best with the most monitors. Interestingly, people have complained about the Venom with regard to ergonomics, I find it the most comfortable of the 4. After just a few days the PW cables (with the exception of the 1950) made the top-back of my ears sore where they wrap around it, not the case at all with the stiffer Venom. Both the 1980 and Venom are exceptional pairings with A18t. I will miss the 1980, if anyone wants to sell a used on, PM me.


----------



## SLC1966

Oh boy, am I heading down the wrong financial path. Oh please lord give me the strength to not tell the difference between cables. 

I am getting to know my monitors so well that I can discern the difference of quality of cable and metal of the cable. A new obsession and joy all in one!


----------



## SeeSax

Good evening! I thought I would post a few photos of a newer cable David over at Triton Audio Cables has produced, which is the Triton4 but with upgraded 24.5awg copper litz wires. I own several Triton8 (his flagship) cables, but this 4-wire variant is pretty darn incredible for around ~$180. Choices are either pure copper, which I have, or SPC and the ergonomics are without a doubt the most comfortable I have ever experienced. 

Pairing with my Dita Dream is perfect. I wanted a cable that would provide the full-bodied impact on the bottom-end and provide a detailed, smooth, still sparkly but not sibilant. The Dream can be pretty energetic up top and this cable preserves that energy, but produces none of the shrill I got with my pure silver cable. And as I mentioned, the bottom-end is dreamy with properly textured bass. Anyway, I probably sound like a fanboy at this point, but I continuously purchase these cables for use in my constant rotation and wanted to show the latest. This 4-wire copper cable is a real winner. Now I'm curious how the SPC sounds!


 

 

-Collin-


----------



## duaned

Has anyone tried the *MOON AUDIO SILVER DRAGON V1 IEM CABLE?*


----------



## pithyginger63

duaned said:


> Has anyone tried the *MOON AUDIO SILVER DRAGON V1 IEM CABLE?*


*SO LOUD, CAN YOU KEEP IT DOWN*


----------



## duaned

pithyginger63 said:


> *SO LOUD, CAN YOU KEEP IT DOWN*



I can't hear you with my IEM's in my ears dummy!


----------



## SLC1966

SeeSax said:


> Good evening! I thought I would post a few photos of a newer cable David over at Triton Audio Cables has produced, which is the Triton4 but with upgraded 24.5awg copper litz wires. I own several Triton8 (his flagship) cables, but this 4-wire variant is pretty darn incredible for around ~$180. Choices are either pure copper, which I have, or SPC and the ergonomics are without a doubt the most comfortable I have ever experienced.
> 
> Pairing with my Dita Dream is perfect. I wanted a cable that would provide the full-bodied impact on the bottom-end and provide a detailed, smooth, still sparkly but not sibilant. The Dream can be pretty energetic up top and this cable preserves that energy, but produces none of the shrill I got with my pure silver cable. And as I mentioned, the bottom-end is dreamy with properly textured bass. Anyway, I probably sound like a fanboy at this point, but I continuously purchase these cables for use in my constant rotation and wanted to show the latest. This 4-wire copper cable is a real winner. Now I'm curious how the SPC sounds!
> 
> ...



I will second what Collin is saying.  The Triton4 24.5 copper has the best ergonomics of any cable I have played with.  Reminds my of the freshest red string licorice from my youth.  It moves how you want and lays where you want (now that did not come out right).  

Also I noticed right away that the Bass is appropriately defined and the treble is appropriately present and appropriately tight.  Historically I like silver with gold or hybrid to keep the detail and hopefully warmth.  With pure copper cables I ran into too many that made the IEM boomy and not defined.  What I call Garbally Goop 

Well done David ( @alpha421 ) !


----------



## daid1

One noob question, the AWG determined the quality of a cable or not?


----------



## kubig123

SLC1966 said:


> I will second what Collin is saying.  The Triton4 24.5 copper has the best ergonomics of any cable I have played with.  Reminds my of the freshest red string licorice from my youth.  It moves how you want and lays where you want (now that did not come out right).
> 
> Also I noticed right away that the Bass is appropriately defined and the treble is appropriately present and appropriately tight.  Historically I like silver with gold or hybrid to keep the detail and hopefully warmth.  With pure copper cables I ran into too many that made the IEM boomy and not defined.  What I call Garbally Goop
> 
> Well done David ( @alpha421 ) !



i have 2 Triton 8 cables, but i find them micro-phonic therefore not the best cables to use when i commute.
How is this new 4 wire cable?


----------



## SLC1966

@kubig123

I also have two Triton8 cables and the Triton4 24.5 does not have any of the micro-phonics present in the Triton8.  Also less micro phonics for me with the hybrid Triton8 vs Silver Triton8.

And I am hungry:


----------



## Wyville

SLC1966 said:


> And I am hungry:


Memories! Haven't had those in years. Now I am hungry too... [absentmindedly chews on Leonidas II]


----------



## SLC1966

daid1 said:


> One noob question, the AWG determined the quality of a cable or not?


Just determines thickness. American Wire Gauge.  The smaller the number the thicker the wire.


----------



## daid1

SLC1966 said:


> Just determines thickness. American Wire Gauge.  The smaller the number the thicker the wire.



got it thanks


----------



## twister6

daid1 said:


> got it thanks



... and the thicker the cable, the lower the resistance  That's how there is a difference in sound going from 4 wire to 8 wire cable which uses the identical wire material and the same connectors.


----------



## latios507

Has anyone tried Nocturnal Audio' lineup?:

Altair (Gold-plated Copper),
Asteria Trimetal (Silver + Gold-plated Copper)
Sirius - Flagship (Silver + Gold)

Pre-ordered IER Z1R and wanted to do some cable rollings. Hopefully will find a cable that would synergize well with the Z1R


----------



## daid1

twister6 said:


> ... and the thicker the cable, the lower the resistance  That's how there is a difference in sound going from 4 wire to 8 wire cable which uses the identical wire material and the same connectors.



so teoretically less resistance better the cable?


----------



## twister6

daid1 said:


> so teoretically less resistance better the cable?



I wouldn't say "better" cause it's subjective, it's just different. I heard some pair ups where 8 wire $2k cable made the sound worse (harsher) then 4 wire $500 cable. It's all about the synergy between the source and its output impedance and sound sig, the cable and its material, impedance, quality of connectors, and even type of solder used, and c/iem with its driver and tuning characteristics. One complicated equation with lots of variables


----------



## daid1

twister6 said:


> I wouldn't say "better" cause it's subjective, it's just different. I heard some pair ups where 8 wire $2k cable made the sound worse (harsher) then 4 wire $500 cable. It's all about the synergy between the source and its output impedance and sound sig, the cable and its material, impedance, quality of connectors, and even type of solder used, and c/iem with its driver and tuning characteristics. One complicated equation with lots of variables



Yep I know about the variables , I was thinking if with the same variables, less resistance would mean better cable, but it is about sinergy then


----------



## twister6

daid1 said:


> Yep I know about the variables , I was thinking if with the same variables, less resistance would mean better cable, but it is about sinergy then



Exactly, and that's a reason why, for example, in my cable reviews I try to use more specific pair up examples because describing the "sound" of the cable doesn't make as much sense without a content of what you are pairing it with.  Cable doesn't have the sound, but paired up with different earphones/headphones - it can affect/finetune the sound in a different way.  Just my humble opinion.


----------



## daid1

twister6 said:


> Exactly, and that's a reason why, for example, in my cable reviews I try to use more specific pair up examples because describing the "sound" of the cable doesn't make as much sense without a content of what you are pairing it with.  Cable doesn't have the sound, but paired up with different earphones/headphones - it can affect/finetune the sound in a different way.  Just my humble opinion.



It can be difficult when you can't try any cable , so I try to ask, in a few time I will receive my first pair of serious iem, an old but still new Ex1000, and I want to try those balanced so I started to learn about cable and which choice can suits better, by now I'm oriented on copper or hybrid silver/gold, but if it is about synergy maybe it is all futile


----------



## aaf evo

@twister6 you need to get your hands on the PW Audio tour kit. I’d love to see your reviews on them. Some of the most impressive cables I’ve had the pleasure of auditioning.


----------



## twister6

aaf evo said:


> @twister6 you need to get your hands on the PW Audio tour kit. I’d love to see your reviews on them. Some of the most impressive cables I’ve had the pleasure of auditioning.



I have reviewed 1960 2wire (4 conductors) and 4wire (8 conductors) about 2 years ago.  Great cables, for sure!


----------



## Likeimthere

SeeSax said:


> Good evening! I thought I would post a few photos of a newer cable David over at Triton Audio Cables has produced, which is the Triton4 but with upgraded 24.5awg copper litz wires. I own several Triton8 (his flagship) cables, but this 4-wire variant is pretty darn incredible for around ~$180. Choices are either pure copper, which I have, or SPC and the ergonomics are without a doubt the most comfortable I have ever experienced.
> 
> Pairing with my Dita Dream is perfect. I wanted a cable that would provide the full-bodied impact on the bottom-end and provide a detailed, smooth, still sparkly but not sibilant. The Dream can be pretty energetic up top and this cable preserves that energy, but produces none of the shrill I got with my pure silver cable. And as I mentioned, the bottom-end is dreamy with properly textured bass. Anyway, I probably sound like a fanboy at this point, but I continuously purchase these cables for use in my constant rotation and wanted to show the latest. This 4-wire copper cable is a real winner. Now I'm curious how the SPC sounds!
> 
> ...



Are we talking Effect Audio level of micro phonics...? That be so awesome... I have the Triton8 (thank you Collin) and it sounds great but not so much for traveling because of the microphonics.


----------



## SeeSax

Likeimthere said:


> Are we talking Effect Audio level of micro phonics...? That be so awesome... I have the Triton8 (thank you Collin) and it sounds great but not so much for traveling because of the microphonics.



Even softer and more flexible!


----------



## Likeimthere

SeeSax said:


> Even softer and more flexible!




Snap... guess I have to try it out....


----------



## Ike1985

twister6 said:


> I have reviewed 1960 2wire (4 conductors) and 4wire (8 conductors) about 2 years ago.  Great cables, for sure!



I would love to have one as a compliment to my venom.


----------



## twister6

Ike1985 said:


> I would love to have one as a compliment to my venom.



Indeed, it's a great cable.  I do enjoy very much PWA, Effect Audio, and PlusSound cables.  And speaking of PlusSound, just posted my full review of their EXO Series Tri-Silver (pure silver, gold-plated silver, and palladium-plated silver wires) Cable here.


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> @twister6 you need to get your hands on the PW Audio tour kit. I’d love to see your reviews on them. Some of the most impressive cables I’ve had the pleasure of auditioning.



I died a little inside when I saw you were selling your 1950............

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> I died a little inside when I saw you were selling your 1950............
> 
> -Collin-



Yeah, not really pushing a sale too much but if it does sell it’ll go to finding an A18t.


----------



## duaned

I received my Triton 8 Copper IEM cable today but it has left me disappointed for two reasons. The Microphonics are insanely bad with this cable. Any movement and the enjoyment of my IEM's is lost. But the bewildering thing I don't get is the chin slider. It's way bigger than the cable so it serves no purpose at all apart from decoration. Crazy. But the SQ is nice I must admit.


----------



## pithyginger63 (Jan 22, 2019)

duaned said:


> I received my Triton 8 Copper IEM cable today but it has left me disappointed for two reasons. The Microphonics are insanely bad with this cable. Any movement and the enjoyment of my IEM's is lost. But the bewildering thing I don't get is the chin slider. It's way bigger than the cable so it serves no purpose at all apart from decoration. Crazy. But the SQ is nice I must admit.


I have to be honest, I find most cables to be quite microphonic. the only cables that have no problem are those with memory wire ear guides


----------



## Number9redreD

Wyville said:


> A few days ago I got in the SilverFi R1 and IEM-X, and finally I got around to a short listening session with the R1 and wanted to share some of my first impressions.
> 
> I have been very eager to get an opportunity to try some of SilverFi's cables and not just because a few of my friends around here keep teasing me with their R4's and R5's, but because of my own preference for prioritising tonality and realism over "in your face" resolution. That is also why I bought the Empire Ears Phantom, for instance. From reading about SilverFi I understood them to prioritise tone and timbre to achieve just the sort of sound I look for in my gear. So I was very pleased to receive these two cables and get a chance to pit them against some of my favourite cables.
> 
> ...



I don’t know if you still have the r1, but would it be possible if we could get an on the ear shot just so I know how they look? I understand that these aren’t  very suitable for portable listening but I’m slightly concerned about comfort over long listening sessions (which don’t always take place at home).

Thanks


----------



## pithyginger63

Number9redreD said:


> I don’t know if you still have the r1, but would it be possible if we could get an on the ear shot just so I know how they look? I understand that these aren’t  very suitable for portable listening but I’m slightly concerned about comfort over long listening sessions (which don’t always take place at home).
> 
> Thanks


I don't own an R1 but any big cable will weigh down heavily on the top of your ears. I have an 8 wire cable that I can't stand to use because it gets too painful to wear. This problem is magnified when you're walking around outside. The up and down motion and swinging of the cable will exacerbate the pain.

That being said, Silver fi cables have cloth coverings so maybe they aren't so uncomfortable YMMV


----------



## Wyville

Number9redreD said:


> I don’t know if you still have the r1, but would it be possible if we could get an on the ear shot just so I know how they look? I understand that these aren’t  very suitable for portable listening but I’m slightly concerned about comfort over long listening sessions (which don’t always take place at home).
> 
> Thanks


I still have the R1, but showing you how the ear guides fit around my ears would be a bit misleading. Sezai explained that they are normally made to fit exactly around the customer's ears (ie. a type of custom fit) and the R1 I have is a demo unit where the ear guides stick up way too much. That would not give a good impression of what the fit would be like.

The image below should give an idea of what the ear guides look like. It is quite a thick heat shrink and very stiff so that it can be shaped to a curve matching the customer's ears. I will be honest and say that I personally do not like it at all, even if the fit were perfect. But then again, I don't like things such as memory wire either. Friends of mine don't seem to have any issues with it (one even happily uses the R4 and R5 for portable), so it will depend on your personal tolerance to the stiffness and whether or not you wear glasses. 

The sound is incredibly good and I would love to have a cable like this one day, but for me personally that would require a different solution. So it really depends. It might or might not work for you. Sorry I can't be any clearer than this.


----------



## Number9redreD

Wyville said:


> I still have the R1, but showing you how the ear guides fit around my ears would be a bit misleading. Sezai explained that they are normally made to fit exactly around the customer's ears (ie. a type of custom fit) and the R1 I have is a demo unit where the ear guides stick up way too much. That would not give a good impression of what the fit would be like.
> 
> The image below should give an idea of what the ear guides look like. It is quite a thick heat shrink and very stiff so that it can be shaped to a curve matching the customer's ears. I will be honest and say that I personally do not like it at all, even if the fit were perfect. But then again, I don't like things such as memory wire either. Friends of mine don't seem to have any issues with it (one even happily uses the R4 and R5 for portable), so it will depend on your personal tolerance to the stiffness and whether or not you wear glasses.
> 
> The sound is incredibly good and I would love to have a cable like this one day, but for me personally that would require a different solution. So it really depends. It might or might not work for you. Sorry I can't be any clearer than this.



Thank you for the quick reply. I realise that, as @pithyginger63 said, my mileage will vary. The likelihood is ill just buy them and hope it turns out well.

Id also like to ask, in the case where taking them portable wont work, is there anything else you could suggest that has similar characteristics whilst also being either in the same price bracket or lower (preferably lower). Im currently using the Phantoms and U18's if that helps

Thanks


----------



## Wyville

Number9redreD said:


> Thank you for the quick reply. I realise that, as @pithyginger63 said, my mileage will vary. The likelihood is ill just buy them and hope it turns out well.
> 
> Id also like to ask, in the case where taking them portable wont work, is there anything else you could suggest that has similar characteristics whilst also being either in the same price bracket or lower (preferably lower). Im currently using the Phantoms and U18's if that helps
> 
> Thanks


Certainly YMMV, as I am really quite sensitive to anything like memory wire or other stiffness in the loop around the ears. But like I said, other people have had far fewer problems. Also, I just learned that SilverFi are looking into different parts, so you can always contact them to see what the latest options are. 

In terms of sound it is a little tricky, as I think the R1 is probably the most natural sounding cable I have used with my Phantom. Closest I have heard is the Effect Audio Leonidas II, but there are some slight differences. Leo II seems to lean a little bit more towards the technical and has more clarity with more sparkly treble, whereas the R1 has a wider stage, a hint more natural tone and smoother treble. For my personal preferences it is extremely close between these two so far (although I have been listening more to Leo II, as that is my next review). In terms of portability it is obvious that the 4-wire Leo II is much more suitable, as the ergonomics are incredibly good. 

Another option (which I have not heard myself) that might be interesting is the PlusSound Tri-Silver, which you can have in different variations from 2-wire to 8-wire. @twister6 recently reviewed the 4-wire Exo and has used both that one and Leo II with the U18 (which I have sadly not heard either). 
Exo Tri-Silver
Leonidas II


----------



## ctaxxxx (Jan 28, 2019)

_*EDIT: *Disregard. Question answered in the other thread._


----------



## PinkyPowers

*To Dazzle and Dominate – A Review of the plusSound X8 Silver+Gold*
​


----------



## pithyginger63

For better or for worse, what's the most transparent cable out there right now? preferable limited to 4 wires


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> For better or for worse, what's the most transparent cable out there right now? preferable limited to 4 wires



My money's on the Janus D. The Leonidas II is a tad more coloured, but it fits the 4-wire brief.


----------



## aaf evo

pithyginger63 said:


> For better or for worse, what's the most transparent cable out there right now? preferable limited to 4 wires





Deezel177 said:


> My money's on the Janus D. The Leonidas II is a tad more coloured, but it fits the 4-wire brief.



I find the 1950s to be more transparent than the JD but I haven’t heard the Leo 2 yet


----------



## Kerouac

Deezel177 said:


> My money's on the Janus D. The Leonidas II is a tad more coloured, but it fits the 4-wire brief.


Well, according to Tw6's Janus D review, the Horus is (also) more transparent 

_''Janus D vs Horus: Horus makes the sound leaner *and more transparent*, Janus D gives the sound more rumble in sub-bass and a little more body in mids. Also, I’m hearing more air between the sound layers with Horus in comparison to Janus D where I also find a great layering but the sound is a little thicker due to that extra body in mids. Furthermore, Horus has a slightly wider soundstage, while both have a similar soundstage depth.''
_
I haven't heard the Janus D (and the above mentioned 1950's) myself, but the Horus is certainly the most transparent and revealing cable that I've come across (incl. my 1960's) so far.


----------



## aaf evo

Kerouac said:


> Well, according to Tw6's Janus D review, the Horus is (also) more transparent
> 
> _''Janus D vs Horus: Horus makes the sound leaner *and more transparent*, Janus D gives the sound more rumble in sub-bass and a little more body in mids. Also, I’m hearing more air between the sound layers with Horus in comparison to Janus D where I also find a great layering but the sound is a little thicker due to that extra body in mids. Furthermore, Horus has a slightly wider soundstage, while both have a similar soundstage depth.''
> _
> I haven't heard the Janus D (and the above mentioned 1950's) myself, but the Horus is certainly the most transparent and revealing cable that I've come across (incl. my 1960's) so far.



From what I remember when I demo’d the 1960s was that the 1950s was a slightly more transparent cable. I haven’t heard the Horus though.


----------



## Wyville

Kerouac said:


> Well, according to Tw6's Janus D review, the Horus is (also) more transparent
> 
> _''Janus D vs Horus: Horus makes the sound leaner *and more transparent*, Janus D gives the sound more rumble in sub-bass and a little more body in mids. Also, I’m hearing more air between the sound layers with Horus in comparison to Janus D where I also find a great layering but the sound is a little thicker due to that extra body in mids. Furthermore, Horus has a slightly wider soundstage, while both have a similar soundstage depth.''
> _
> I haven't heard the Janus D (and the above mentioned 1950's) myself, but the Horus is certainly the most transparent and revealing cable that I've come across (incl. my 1960's) so far.


I would lean towards Horus as well. Leo II is bloody transparent, but not at the level of Horus. Much like Daniel said, Leo II has a bit more colour (which I like... I like a lot  ).


----------



## Deezel177

aaf evo said:


> I find the 1950s to be more transparent than the JD but I haven’t heard the Leo 2 yet



In terms of detail: Yes. But, the 1950s is too v-shaped and dynamically-oriented for me to call it _transparent_.



Kerouac said:


> Well, according to Tw6's Janus D review, the Horus is (also) more transparent
> 
> _''Janus D vs Horus: Horus makes the sound leaner *and more transparent*, Janus D gives the sound more rumble in sub-bass and a little more body in mids. Also, I’m hearing more air between the sound layers with Horus in comparison to Janus D where I also find a great layering but the sound is a little thicker due to that extra body in mids. Furthermore, Horus has a slightly wider soundstage, while both have a similar soundstage depth.''
> _
> I haven't heard the Janus D (and the above mentioned 1950's) myself, but the Horus is certainly the most transparent and revealing cable that I've come across (incl. my 1960's) so far.



Similarly, the Horus is too bright and dry in the midrange for me to call it _transparent_. Then again, I don't know whether y'all are talking about detail-led transparency, tonal transparency or a mixture of both.


----------



## Kerouac

Deezel177 said:


> Then again, I don't know whether y'all are talking about detail-led transparency, tonal transparency or a mixture of both.



Well....uuuhhhhh...





I would probably place my bet on a mixture of both 

Btw, I listened mainly with Phantom + Horus out of the LPG, which was the closest thing to synergy perfection (based on my personal taste) since I entered this crazy hobby.


----------



## twister6

Kerouac said:


> Well....uuuhhhhh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mine reference was about tonal transparency, less coloring in a relative comparison to Janus D, but it also has to do with a pair up, of course


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Similarly, the Horus is too bright and dry in the midrange for me to call it _transparent_. Then again, I don't know whether y'all are talking about detail-led transparency, tonal transparency or a mixture of both.


I try to be consistent with this, but still find it quite difficult to pin down exactly. What I generally see as 'transparency' is connected to a lack of veil and the completeness of the notes. So while I did find Horus a touch too bright and dry (with my Phantom), I do remember it to be exceptionally clear (ie. lack of veil). But I still need to get more experience under my belt to be more consistent in these things. This reviewing stuff is quite hard work, you know!


----------



## pithyginger63 (Jan 30, 2019)

Wyville said:


> I try to be consistent with this, but still find it quite difficult to pin down exactly. What I generally see as 'transparency' is connected to a lack of veil and the completeness of the notes. So while I did find Horus a touch too bright and dry (with my Phantom), I do remember it to be exceptionally clear (ie. lack of veil). But I still need to get more experience under my belt to be more consistent in these things. This reviewing stuff is quite hard work, you know!


This is how I think of transparency as well, though I often confuse transparency with clarity.


Deezel177 said:


> Similarly, the Horus is too bright and dry in the midrange for me to call it _transparent_. Then again, I don't know whether y'all are talking about detail-led transparency, tonal transparency or a mixture of both


If we were talking about detailed transparency, I guess the Horus trumps the Leo ii?
Also, dry means quick attack with very short decay?

Edit: also did the Horus get more expensive under my nose? it's $1800US now


----------



## ayang02

pithyginger63 said:


> This is how I think of transparency as well, though I often confuse transparency with clarity.
> 
> If we were talking about detailed transparency, I guess the Horus trumps the Leo ii?
> Also, dry means quick attack with very short decay?
> ...



If you're considering the likes of Horus, Leo 2. I would also consider Crystal Cable Dream Duet. I know you could at least find places to audition the Leo 2 and the dream duet in Taipei. Not sure about Horus though.


----------



## pithyginger63

ayang02 said:


> If you're considering the likes of Horus, Leo 2. I would also consider Crystal Cable Dream Duet. I know you could at least find places to audition the Leo 2 and the dream duet in Taipei. Not sure about Horus though.


I'll audition the Leo 2 once my iems are done reshelling


----------



## domho7

Hi any bros here listened to labkable cables before


----------



## Deezel177 (Jan 30, 2019)

Wyville said:


> I try to be consistent with this, but still find it quite difficult to pin down exactly. What I generally see as 'transparency' is connected to a lack of veil and the completeness of the notes. So while I did find Horus a touch too bright and dry (with my Phantom), I do remember it to be exceptionally clear (ie. lack of veil). But I still need to get more experience under my belt to be more consistent in these things. This reviewing stuff is quite hard work, you know!



Yeah, @twister6 brought up a good point where he mentions that transparency when it comes to cables can be dependent on the pairing. I auditioned the Horus with the Zeus-XR, which as a combo, may have ben too bright and thin to be called _transparent_ to my ears. Detail was off the charts, but everything had the same tinge to it, which I wasn't a fan of. The Janus D to my ears had an effortlessness that felt like it wasn't trying to prove or show me anything. It wasn't flashy. But at the same time, it had full-bodied, complete and well-resolved notes. I could call it neither bright nor warm, though it had a tendency of leaning towards the latter. So for my money, the Janus D is a more transparent, uncoloured cable. But, the Horus as a partner can be considered transparent with the correct pairing too. In that case, the combo would be transparent, rather than the cable itself.... I think...?  I think what I'm trying to say is I should give the Horus another go with a more tonally-transparent monitor; no bottlenecks.



pithyginger63 said:


> This is how I think of transparency as well, though I often confuse transparency with clarity.
> 
> If we were talking about detailed transparency, I guess the Horus trumps the Leo ii?
> Also, dry means quick attack with very short decay?
> ...



Transparency to me refers to how much insight I get into the music. Of course, clarity has a big part to play, because it often determines how much detail we can hear and how many layers we can peel in the music. But at the same time, there are many ways one can achieve clarity, whether it be blackening the background, removing distortion, boosting the treble, recessing the lower-midrange, attenuating the bass, etc. Now, can clarity derived from all those different methods be equated to _transparency_? In my opinion, no. Because, once you started attenuating the lower registers, you begin to lose the lower harmonics of notes - which in turn affects their fundamentals, decay, body, tone, etc. - if you boost the treble you're putting transient attack before the harmonics and adding another colouration, etc. Transparency to me has to achieve as much clarity and resolution as possible with minimal compromise to timbre and body. In my opinion, the Horus is an excellent cable, but may inch too far with some pair-ups. By contrast, although the Janus D doesn't achieve as much clarity, it compromises quite a bit less than the Horus in timbre and tone.


----------



## Wyville

Deezel177 said:


> Yeah, @twister6 brought up a good point where he mentions that transparency when it comes to cables can be dependent on the pairing. I auditioned the Horus with the Zeus-XR, which as a combo, may have ben too bright and thin to be called _transparent_ to my ears. Detail was off the charts, but everything had the same tinge to it, which I wasn't a fan of. The Janus D to my ears had an effortlessness that felt like it wasn't trying to prove or show me anything. It wasn't flashy. But at the same time, it had full-bodied, complete and well-resolved notes. I could call it neither bright nor warm, though it had a tendency of leaning towards the latter. So for my money, the Janus D is a more transparent, uncoloured cable. But, the Horus as a partner can be considered transparent with the correct pairing too. In that case, the combo would be transparent, rather than the cable itself.... I think...?  I think what I'm trying to say is I should give the Horus another go with a more tonally-transparent monitor; no bottlenecks.


Yeah, the pairing itself is really important. Cables seem to have general characteristics, but the result ultimately depends on how the IEMs, source and cable synergise. That is also why (for instance) PlusSound always urges me to try out many different pairings and why I have been quite happy to have the FiiO K3 around as more neutral source next to my AK70. Also the reason why I went a little experimental with the Leo II review and focused on one pairing (with my Phantom), but pointed out that not everything synergises this well (eg. Dita Fealty). I have been meaning to play around with synergy more, but don't have enough different IEMs at hand to do it.


Deezel177 said:


> Transparency to me refers to how much insight I get into the music. Of course, clarity has a big part to play, because it often determines how much detail we can hear and how many layers we can peel in the music. But at the same time, there are many ways one can achieve clarity, whether it be blackening the background, removing distortion, boosting the treble, recessing the lower-midrange, attenuating the bass, etc. Now, can clarity derived from all those different methods be equated to _transparency_? In my opinion, no. Because, once you started attenuating the lower registers, you begin to lose the lower harmonics of notes - which in turn affects their fundamentals, decay, body, tone, etc. - if you boost the treble you're putting transient attack before the harmonics and adding another colouration, etc. Transparency to me has to achieve as much clarity and resolution as possible with minimal compromise to timbre and body. In my opinion, the Horus is an excellent cable, but may inch too far with some pair-ups. By contrast, although the Janus D doesn't achieve as much clarity, it compromises quite a bit less than the Horus in timbre and tone.


This is really interesting, as I have been working on improving how I describe some of these more subtle changes. So with the SilverFi cables for instance, I found the X more neutral than the R1, but the R1 gets the more "complete" note. The X has a tighter bass that does not give off as much warmth to the rest of the signature as the bass of the R1 does. As a consequence, while I hear beautiful violins with both cables, I can hear the resonance in the body of the instrument more clearly with the R1, and brass too has more natural authority (not just bite). In that sense the R1 would be more transparent even though it is a warmer cable.


----------



## Wyville

I thought I might as well share my full impressions of the SilverFi X and R1 here.

*SilverFi IEM-X and IEM-R1 - Artisan cables for the discerning cable connoisseur*

_Disclaimer_
I would like to thank Sezai of SilverFi for making these demo units available for a review and @flinkenick for including me in the tour. No incentive was given for a favourable review.

_SilverFi_
Based in Antalya, Turkey, SilverFi is a company that always invokes images with me of a master craftsman at work in his mountain workshop, smelting silver and painstakingly drawing wires to craft the gorgeous looking cables. Okay, perhaps I have a little too much imagination, but SilverFi does really build its cables from the ground up. They select the materials and draw the wires in accordance with their own specifications an indeed everything about their cables is very much done in accordance with their own philosophy. From what I learned about SilverFi, I understood them to prioritise tonality and realism over outright resolution. SilverFi cables are about tone, timbre and coherence, just the sort of things I prioritise as well. So as soon as I first learned about SilverFi, I wanted to try their cables, especially after I had bought my Empire Ears Phantom, which were tuned with much the same philosophy in mind.  Of course it did not help that friends of mine kept teasing me with their Top Of The SilverFi Line R4's and R5's and emphasising just how gorgeous the Phantom sound when paired with those cables. So what can I say, I might as well enjoy the ride down the rabbit hole...

_Build quality and ergonomics_
With a SiverFi cable you are sure to get something completely unique. I have seen, demoed and reviewed a fair few cables by now, but I have not come across anything quite like these, especially the R1. Both the X and R1 have a similar construction with the X made up of 4 wires and the R1 of 8 wires. Each wire is sleeved in cotton and the braiding is asymmetric where there are 4 wires, so under the Y-split on the X and on the left and right side on the R1. The R1 under the y-split is a stunningly gorgeous flat braid.




 

The connectors are angled 2-pin that have a very thick and sturdy heat shrink to form the curve around the ear. Here I get into the somewhat difficult to review area of ergonomics. The way these heat shrinks are intended to work is customised, much like CIEMs are. Sezai explained to me that any new customer is asked for a 1/1 scale of their ears to ensure the best fit. Because these cables are demo units the fit was invariably going to be sub-optimal and so I naturally struggled a bit to get the loops to sit comfortably around my ears. I could bend them a little, but I did not want to do that too much and the sturdiness prevented the cable from resting on my ear. This also caused the worsening of the microphonics. I do think that with a proper fit this will work a lot better, although I am personally not a huge fan of the thickness of the heat shrink in any case. I wear glasses and generally prefer the loops around my ears to be as supple as possible and it does make me wonder if it would be possible to forgo the heat shrink altogether with these cables. Another suggestion I came up with was to use PlusSound connectors, and purely by coincidence I caught up with Sezai, who explained to me that they were testing various alternative connectors such as Eidolic and PlusSound. There were still some concerns, as the original Eidolic connectors would bend during the soldering process, but the newer 'plus' versions were much more promising. Clearly Sezai has taken criticism of the ergonomics to heart and is hard at work to improve this area without compromising on the sound or strength of the soldering.

Overall I love the look of the cables and have been able to use them without too many issues for short listening sessions. I think these type of cables, especially the R1 are best used at home behind your desk or lying on the sofa to enjoy the music without any distraction because at the end of the day, these cables are uncompromisingly about sound quality and you really want to savour that.

_Source_
All listening was done with my AK70 from the SE out using the Empire Ears Phantom.

_IEM-X (US$ 496)_
This is a cable I have been very curious about for a while now. Given SilverFi's emphasis on tone and timbre, I was very interested to hear how it would compare to the similarly priced Effect Audio Lionheart. Lionheart is a very natural sounding cable with a wonderful tone, but uses copper wires instead of the silver of the X and so the two seemed to be different approaches to similar goals. Hearing the X I quickly found a different sound, as Lionheart is quite warm, but the X is much more neutral.



 

The stage of the X is not as big as that of other cables I have used with my Phantom, such as Effect Audio's bespoke 8-wires and Leonidas II. While it stays more on the intimate side, it is very holographic, airy and the imaging is very good. With complex and layered choral music such as Bach's Magnificat, I found excellent positioning of the vocals and it gave a clear sense of how the choir was built up. Similarly, Carbon Based Lifeforms' album Hydroponic Garden (down tempo EDM) was great to listen to. More intimate than I am used to, but still conveying a good sense of physical space. The X also improves the level of detail coming through and pushes the Phantom a little more towards the articulate side. 

The overall tonality with my Phantom feels to me more neutral-natural, giving the Phantom a slightly brighter feel than I am used to. The bass is well controlled, has great texture to it and a very nice impact that I felt worked great for the type of down tempo EDM I occasionally like to listen to. The bass however does not add much warmth to the mid-range and while I feel mid-range tonality is very good, I would have liked instruments to have a bit more warmth to them. I have been listening a lot to Beethoven's 7th recently and with every pairing I tried brass instruments and woodwinds have a full sound to them, but with the X that fullness is reduced a bit and that is especially noticeable with brass instruments that do not quite have the same authority. I am being very picky here, as the tone is still very good and is simply more neutral-natural compared to the warm-natural tone I am so used to. The treble is energetic, but smooth. While brass instruments might lack the authority a little due to the reduced warmth, they have enough bite to them to make their presence known and that is in itself of course quite accurate. There is nothing worse than brass instruments that sound too smooth, something I experience with Lionheart when I use that cable from the balanced out of my AK70. No such wishy-washy treble with the X and it gives violins a lovely bite as well.

_IEM-R1 (US$ 999)_
The R1 is in my opinion a clear step up from the X and while their DNA seems to be very similar, they offer a somewhat different tone from one another. Where the X is a more neutral cable, the R1 has just that type of warmth that I love so much. The overall sound feels smoother, more organic and in my opinion, more accurate in tonality.



 

The R1 offers a much wider and deeper stage than the X and feels perhaps less holographic, but all the more natural. The R1 is so airy and spacious that it feels more like sitting at a performance, rather than wearing IEMs. It is not an extremely out-of-the-head experience, but just feels more natural, also in the way details are presented. The R1 improves the level of details that come through more so than the X and yet the details are presented less forward. It is the type of more nuanced presentation that I prefer, as I personally feel it is more accurate. I don't need my IEMs to slap me in the face with so much detail that it becomes fatiguing after 10 minutes. I much prefer this type of fatigue-free listening, where I can close my eyes and drift away in the smoothly flowing music, picking out the details at my leisure. That is also what I love about the Phantom and the R1 seems to compliment that very well.

As I indicated already, the tonality of the R1 is more what I consider to be accurate, with just a little bit of extra warmth compared to the X to improve the fullness of instruments. Indeed, I feel that instruments sound more "complete". That is not only because of the incredibly good level of transparency, but instruments get more body from the warmth. The brass instruments I described with the X for instance get extra authority that helps them rise more clearly above the other instruments. The R1 improves tonal contrast, separating instruments based on tonality rather than pulling them apart so far that it hurts coherency. I also love listening to Paganini and with the R1 I hear not just so much more texture of the strings coming through, but the resonance within the body of the violin as well. That warmth really helps there. In fact, I think that with the R1 my Phantom were giving me some of the best violin sections I have heard so far. It seems the R1 really helps to bring out strings, any strings, as the acoustic guitars of the Foo Fighters were also coming through incredibly well.

The bass with the R1 is a little fuller than with the X and I prefer it. The double bass or cello become a bit more resonant and that is something I particularly like, either with classical music such as Bach's Cello Concertos, of Jazz, such as Caro Emerald. It is warm and lush, as it should be, but without overdoing it. The mid-range is more natural on the R1 than with the X and it is among the most natural sounding mid-ranges of any cable pairing I have tried with my Phantom. It is very well balanced with enough fullness to sound accurate, but again not overdoing it. The treble too is smooth and perhaps not what you would call sparkly, but balanced really well. I love listening to the vocal jazz of Madeleine Peyroux and hearing the brushes on the cymbals come through with a wonderful clarity and delicacy at the same time.



 

_Conclusions_
I have not spent anywhere near as much time with these cables as I would have liked, largely due to the cables not looping tightly enough around my ears, which meant the weight of the cables kept pulling too much on the IEMs. As explained, this is simply because the cables are demo units. Purely for the sound I could have easily enjoyed them for many hours more, especially the R1, which had great synergy with my Phantom and catered to my preferences very well. The X is a great, more neutral cable with really good imaging and a neutral-natural tonality when paired with my Phantom. The R1 is a clear step up with a bigger stage, even better imaging, great transparency and a more warm-neutral tonality when paired with the Phantom.


----------



## 474194

Very nice R1 review.  I may have to take a plunge on a R1 now....


----------



## ctaxxxx

Anyone here listen to Han Sound Audio Zen 8-wire? 

After hearing the Ares II 8-wire, I'm curious to hearing more. (I still plan to keep the Ares 8 of course)

There's not much in my price range (under $400, _maybe_ $500 max). Still waiting on the PW Audio Helix that was on their tour, since their other 8-wire cables get really costly.


----------



## SeeSax

domho7 said:


> Hi any bros here listened to labkable cables before



I own the Labkable Samurai III and it’s a very transparent, clean-sounding cable. Ergonomics are slightly behind other 2018/2019 flagships from the likes of Effect Audio and Hansound, but the sound is top notch and preserves the signature of your chosen IEM while improving clarity. I found its pairing great with my S-EM9 and Noble Katana when I had it. Great treble extension, superbly clean bass (not really enhanced in quantity) and a slightly warm but mostly neutral midrange. It’s a cable that doesn’t really have its own signature in my opinion. 

-Collin-


----------



## domho7

SeeSax said:


> I own the Labkable Samurai III and it’s a very transparent, clean-sounding cable. Ergonomics are slightly behind other 2018/2019 flagships from the likes of Effect Audio and Hansound, but the sound is top notch and preserves the signature of your chosen IEM while improving clarity. I found its pairing great with my S-EM9 and Noble Katana when I had it. Great treble extension, superbly clean bass (not really enhanced in quantity) and a slightly warm but mostly neutral midrange. It’s a cable that doesn’t really have its own signature in my opinion.
> 
> -Collin-


Hi collin 
Tks for the review. I tried the blue horizon.
Bass is very gd. Also dynamics. 
I had tried the samurai iii on lcd2 but haven't tried on the iems yet.


----------



## duaned

Would the Triton 8 be comparable to the Ares bespoke 8 wire?


----------



## davidmolliere

ctaxxxx said:


> Anyone here listen to Han Sound Audio Zen 8-wire?
> After hearing the Ares II 8-wire, I'm curious to hearing more. (I still plan to keep the Ares 8 of course)
> There's not much in my price range (under $400, _maybe_ $500 max). Still waiting on the PW Audio Helix that was on their tour, since their other 8-wire cables get really costly.



I haven’t heard the Ares II in 8 wire, so I won't be able to provide comparisons... but I did enjoy the Hansound Zen 4 wire so much I got the 8 wire not long after.
To my ears the Hansound Zen both 4 and 8 wire is fairly transparent and very smooth, it has moderate warmth. The mids are quite balanced and the highs are well extended. I like the balance between good body and nice separation. 

I think the Zen review by Nic on THL applies, as the 8 wire is basically the 4 wire but with better soundstage, separation and better extension up top. The ergonomics is great, when I got the 4 wire I was surprised by the low footprint and how supple it is. The 8 wire is very usable even on the go. The build is really good. Great value IMHO. I found the Zen 4 wire smoother, more transparent than the Ares II 4 wires which is more dynamic and “agressive”.


----------



## rtjoa

New Brimar Cable Deep State 12 wire which will be launched at Singapore Can Jam 2019.

Posted with permission from owner.


----------



## papa_mia

rtjoa said:


> New Brimar Cable Deep State 12 wire which will be launched at Singapore Can Jam 2019.
> 
> Posted with permission from owner.


Another gold plated one?


----------



## IgeNeLL

rtjoa said:


> New Brimar Cable Deep State 12 wire which will be launched at Singapore Can Jam 2019.
> 
> Posted with permission from owner.


The ultimate ?


----------



## rtjoa

papa_mia said:


> Another gold plated one?


The Deep State consists of Palladium + Platinum + Gold & Silver



IgeNeLL said:


> The ultimate ?


The Ultimate was launched at Singapore Can Jam 2018 and the Ultimate Limited Edition (ULE) was released at Tokyo Headphone Festival 2018. The Deep State will be launched at Singapore Can Jam 2019. If I am not mistaken, the Ultimate is Gold & Silver + Gold & Copper.


----------



## papa_mia

rtjoa said:


> The Deep State consists of Palladium + Platinum + Gold & Silver


Yeah, of course it is.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Is Music Sanctuary on holiday due to the Lunar New Year? I always forget how long this holiday is for businesses there, but I ordered a cable with expedite shipping days ago and emailed them about but still no response. Just wondering if that was the case.


----------



## twister6

ctaxxxx said:


> Is Music Sanctuary on holiday due to the Lunar New Year? I always forget how long this holiday is for businesses there, but I ordered a cable with expedite shipping days ago and emailed them about but still no response. Just wondering if that was the case.



Would not be surprised if they are.  I think CNY is through next week.


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> Is Music Sanctuary on holiday due to the Lunar New Year? I always forget how long this holiday is for businesses there, but I ordered a cable with expedite shipping days ago and emailed them about but still no response. Just wondering if that was the case.



They are. I've been trying to get a hold of them on Facebook for a week. 

We need week-long holidays in the US!

-Collin-


----------



## ngd3

Anybody know companies that have angled 2 pin connectors as an option?

I see Moon Audio as one, any others?


----------



## Deezel177

ngd3 said:


> Anybody know companies that have angled 2 pin connectors as an option?
> 
> I see Moon Audio as one, any others?



FIR Audio's cables have those connectors. PWAudio have MMCX-to-2-pin adapters that use those connectors, but they've never used them on their cables. Perhaps you can make a request.


----------



## kendosperling

Forza Audioworks have angled 2 pin connectors.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Does anyone know of any 2-pin female to MMCX male adapters? 

I see a bunch of 2-pin male from MMCX female adapters only. Is it not possible to go from 2-pin to MMCX?


----------



## Wyville

ctaxxxx said:


> Does anyone know of any 2-pin female to MMCX male adapters?
> 
> I see a bunch of 2-pin male from MMCX female adapters only. Is it not possible to go from 2-pin to MMCX?


There are various brands out there that have them, certainly Rhapsodio has both options:
https://twister6.com/2018/12/08/rhapsodio-connector-iem-adaptors/


----------



## rtjoa

ctaxxxx said:


> Does anyone know of any 2-pin female to MMCX male adapters?
> 
> I see a bunch of 2-pin male from MMCX female adapters only. Is it not possible to go from 2-pin to MMCX?



My adapters:
- 2pin to mmcx, fit ear and JH
- mmcx to 2pin

I bought those adapters from Willow Audio (clear adapters) and Gong Sakura (black old adapters). They are from China. Gong Sakura has newer adapters which looks nicer and shorter than Willow adapters. The mmcx to 2pin is a gift from Brimar cable. You can find Willow Audio link from previous posts. I think Alex Twister has ordered some adapters for review from Willow Audio.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Thanks guys, but I ended up finding some cheap ones on Penon Audio. 

 


That Rhapsodio one is *really expensive*, and it seems Willow Audio is only available through Taobao, which doesn't seem to be in English...


----------



## twister6

ctaxxxx said:


> Thanks guys, but I ended up finding some cheap ones on Penon Audio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rhapsodio ones are expensive, $100 per pair, due to use of some exotic far infrared isolation material and all custom aluminum housing with CF insert.  Lin Soul will have their adapters soon on Amazon, but it will be around $50-$55 per pair, as I have been told.  Those are the ones they promised to send me for a test drive after CNY, and they are angled, not straight.

BUT, you have to keep in mind one very important thing.  Straight adapters might not work with all IEMs and all ears because you are making a bigger loop with cable going over your ears.  So, angled adapters are a better solution, but all depends on application.


----------



## ctaxxxx

twister6 said:


> Rhapsodio ones are expensive, $100 per pair, due to use of some exotic far infrared isolation material and all custom aluminum housing with CF insert.  Lin Soul will have their adapters soon on Amazon, but it will be around $50-$55 per pair, as I have been told.  Those are the ones they promised to send me for a test drive after CNY, and they are angled, not straight.
> 
> BUT, you have to keep in mind one very important thing.  Straight adapters might not work with all IEMs and all ears because you are making a bigger loop with cable going over your ears.  So, angled adapters are a better solution, but all depends on application.


I saw the Linsoul ones on Amazon, but they only had 2-pin male / MMCX female. I would have went with those if they had the option.


----------



## vilhelm44

Hi all, been looking at picking up either the Onso 04 or Orb Clear Force Ultimate to use with my WM1A and A12ts. Does anyone have any experience with these cables as to sound and build qualities?


----------



## kubig123

i already posted in the PWAudio tour thread, but i think it's worth to add my impression in this thread too.

it has been one of the best tour that i participated, and for that i want again to thanks both @Barra and @Kozato to make it happened.
I've purchased quite few cables from Music Sanctuary and PWAudio is one of my favorite cable company, i love the quality of their cables i bought so far.
I was mostly interested to try the top of the range, i already own a 1960 (2 wire) and i ware really curious to compare it versus the 1960 8 wire, the 1950 and the 1980.

I tried these 3 cables with 3 different ciems: 

Campfire Equinox
EE Phantom
EE Legend X
As a source i used the new Lotoo Paw Gold Touch, that has a neutral signature and it has been very interesting how different the result paring these 3 ciems with the above mentioned cables.

*1950*
since i saw the first picture of this cable i was really intrigue by the grey rubber sleeve and i have to say, now that i have it in my possession i can say i'm in love with the overall quality of this cable, it was a very tight braiding but is still very supple.

Since the first minute you start using this cable, you know that is something special, it surprise you with an incredible wast sound-stage with impressive resolution and separation.

Where this cable shines is in the reproduction of the treble, the extension, the amount of details, the precision layering of the elements allow you to appreciate every single notes with highest details without being too bright or strident.
Compared to the treble the mid and bass feel more controlled and layback, both are reproduced with the same technical capability of the treble; transition is fast and controlled, the vocals take advantage of the sound stage.

This cable has been a hit or miss; with the Equinox, the mid and bass were way to recessed to the point it flattened the overall perception.
With the Phantom was definitely better, still lacking some presence in the lower mid and bass but it help to extend the treble and increase the head room.
The Legend X provided instead a very interesting experience, the bass was still there with a much quicker transition, increasing the overall resolution and extending the treble but without being to sharp

it's an extremely technical cable, that allow you to fully appreciate the 
Out of the 3 cables the 1950 is the most transparent cable, it has all the quality of a very refined silver cable.

*1960*
As i already pointed out i already had the 1960 (2 wire) and since that purchase i've been dying to try the 4 wire!
And "unfortunately" it's another great cable, the overall signature is warm with a dense (but absolutely not congested) mid and bass, treble is smoother than the 1950.
also this cable provide a great soundstage, that i definitely would call it 3d, with great separation and resolution thanks to the soundstage. the 2 wire counterpart is slightly warmer and the soundstage is not at the same level, therefore also the separation and overall details are slightly less pronounced. Out of the 3 cables is the one with the most natural, slower transition.

it pairs perfectly with the 3 ciems, i feel is the perfect companion to the Phantom, it doesn't change the overall sound signature of the earphones, it just enhance the performance especially due to the soundstage. Extremely fun with the Equinox but slightly too boomy for the Legend X.

*1980*
this is another very interesting cable, it's the stiffer of the 3, i used during my daily commute for a couple of days and it's not as comfortable as the other 2.
the overall signature is the perfect blend between the 1950 and the 1960. it's more colored than the 1950 but not as much as the 1960, as a fast attack and decay as the 1950, but with a strong focus on mid and especially bass, the treble are reproduced with great details and are as extended as the 1950.
Also this cable as the same great, vast soundstage and separation, overall it found it to be the most interesting one, especially the best for the Legend X, Equinox follows very closely but i personally found it too fast fro the Phantom.

last point, the most impressive area of all 3 cables is the soundstage, sorry if i repeat myself, all of them have a great soundstage, that i think is very similar in the 3 cables, but i perceive it in a different way due to the 3 different sound signatures.

if i had to choose one cable i would go with the 1960 4 wire, it's the one that match my preferences and most of my earphones, the 1980 is as interesting but is not as comfortable as the other 2.


----------



## davidmolliere

kubig123 said:


> As i already pointed out i already had the 1960 (2 wire) and since that purchase i've been dying to try the 4 wire!
> And "unfortunately" it's another great cable, the overall signature is warm with a dense (but absolutely not congested) mid and bass, treble is smoother than the 1950.
> also this cable provide a great soundstage, that i definitely would call it 3d, with great separation and resolution thanks to the soundstage. the 2 wire counterpart is slightly warmer and the soundstage is not at the same level, therefore also the separation and overall details are slightly less pronounced. Out of the 3 cables is the one with the most natural, slower transition. it pairs perfectly with the 3 ciems, i feel is the perfect companion to the Phantom, it doesn't change the overall sound signature of the earphones, it just enhance the performance especially due to the soundstage. Extremely fun with the Equinox but slightly too boomy for the Legend X.
> (...) if i had to choose one cable i would go with the 1960 4 wire, it's the one that match my preferences and most of my earphones, the 1980 is as interesting but is not as comfortable as the other 2.



I love the 1960 4 wires with the Phantom and it’s also stunning with the VE8... there is something about that cable... it’s not a myth!
Thanks for the detailed impressions!


----------



## ezekiel77

Something evil is afoot...


----------



## pithyginger63

ezekiel77 said:


> Something evil is afoot...


Oh dear, so how many iems are there gonna be?


----------



## ezekiel77

pithyginger63 said:


> Oh dear, so how many iems are there gonna be?


Right now I have more cables than IEMs hehe


----------



## Wyville

ezekiel77 said:


> Right now I have more cables than IEMs hehe


Same here!


----------



## SeeSax

ezekiel77 said:


> Right now I have more cables than IEMs hehe





Wyville said:


> Same here!



Me three. FYI the proper ratio of cables to IEMs is 2:1 (and it is a requirement to post in this thread).

-Collin-


----------



## honeyjjack

Anyone have any experience with norne audio silvergarde sx? Seems similar to dhc elite 19.


----------



## SeeSax

Hey Guys, Brian from BTG Audio lent me one of his new cables from the "Q" series, which I hadn't seen before. I finally got a few hours to try it out on my most transparent IEM, the Dita Dream, so I have some impressions if anyone is up for a quick read. First, it's a super light, flexible cable without any memory wire or pre-shaped ear hooks. It's pure copper, somewhere in the realm of 23awg and uses a French silk sleeve. It's funny because it looks very similar to my Rhapsodio Copper Wizard mk2, but weighs a quarter as much and is way more comfortable. Closest thing I have to compare price-wise would be my new Triton4 24.5awg copper litz cable. Both are supremely comfortable and very well-built. The sound differs, though. 

Right away, I notice a pleasing smoothness to the Q cable. It has a powerful and present sub-bass and mid-bass kick, though a touch softer around the edges than the Triton4. It's a nice pairing with the Dream, which can sound sterile with a lot of silver cables. Mids are lush, slightly forward (another welcome trait for the Dream) and upper mids/treble are polite. Overall, I would say the Triton4 is the more neutral, transparent cable, closer in sound signature actually to the Dita Truth cable that the Dream came with. The Q, however, diverges from "reference" a bit and I would say it enhances the lower frequencies. I think it would be an easy cable to pair with neutral to bright IEMs, but on the Legend X it was a case of too much of a good thing. Conversely, the Triton4 worked well in keeping the Legend X in control, while maintaining its overall sound signature and keeping things fun enough without too much bass. I tried the Q on the Hyla CE-5 and it was wonderful. Huge bass slam that maintained control and softened the treble a tad. It also brought the mids a little more forward. Below are some photos (first two are the Q, last is the Triton4 24.5awg copper litz). 

 

 

 

Thanks so much @Pingupenguins for letting me try the cable - I really enjoyed my time with it. I think this is a nice offering around the price point (below $250 I think, but Brian will have to keep me honest) for someone looking for a comfortable, well-built, great-looking cable that has a highly-refined copper sound signature. 

-Collin-


----------



## ayang02 (Feb 18, 2019)

I also got the same Q series cable for my Audeze LCD 2 Closed back a few months ago during the 30% off end-of-summer sale. Also noted the smoothness this cable brings plus it's very fairly priced even at full price.


----------



## ezekiel77

SeeSax said:


> Hey Guys, Brian from BTG Audio lent me one of his new cables from the "Q" series, which I hadn't seen before. I finally got a few hours to try it out on my most transparent IEM, the Dita Dream, so I have some impressions if anyone is up for a quick read. First, it's a super light, flexible cable without any memory wire or pre-shaped ear hooks. It's pure copper, somewhere in the realm of 23awg and uses a French silk sleeve. It's funny because it looks very similar to my Rhapsodio Copper Wizard mk2, but weighs a quarter as much and is way more comfortable. Closest thing I have to compare price-wise would be my new Triton4 24.5awg copper litz cable. Both are supremely comfortable and very well-built. The sound differs, though.
> 
> Right away, I notice a pleasing smoothness to the Q cable. It has a powerful and present sub-bass and mid-bass kick, though a touch softer around the edges than the Triton4. It's a nice pairing with the Dream, which can sound sterile with a lot of silver cables. Mids are lush, slightly forward (another welcome trait for the Dream) and upper mids/treble are polite. Overall, I would say the Triton4 is the more neutral, transparent cable, closer in sound signature actually to the Dita Truth cable that the Dream came with. The Q, however, diverges from "reference" a bit and I would say it enhances the lower frequencies. I think it would be an easy cable to pair with neutral to bright IEMs, but on the Legend X it was a case of too much of a good thing. Conversely, the Triton4 worked well in keeping the Legend X in control, while maintaining its overall sound signature and keeping things fun enough without too much bass. I tried the Q on the Hyla CE-5 and it was wonderful. Huge bass slam that maintained control and softened the treble a tad. It also brought the mids a little more forward. Below are some photos (first two are the Q, last is the Triton4 24.5awg copper litz).
> 
> ...


Hey Collin! Glad you tried the Q cables. For a long time they are a staple recommendation for Audeze headphones because of the luxurious build/ergonomics and overall smooth, accessible sound. I'm glad they hopped over to IEMs too bcos the smooth soft sheathing will prove a hit since you know, it'll remind people of the 1960s.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

flinkenick said:


> *A primer on high-end cables*
> *Introduction*
> 
> This article can be viewed as a brief discussion on the performance of cables throughout different tiers. This is just to provide a rough picture of the world of high-end upgrade cables, based on my experience. I can imagine that there’s a healthy skepticism about the actual increase in performance when you move up higher in quality. And I’m not referring to cable skeptics – I have no interest in ‘converting’ anyone, or starting a cable discussion. My goal is to provide a bit information for those already interested. As I’ve been a cable enthusiast for a couple of years now, I’ve been able to experience a relatively large number of upgrade cables (an estimate would be somewhere between 40 – 50).
> ...


excuse me sir
well from my point of view, cables, if made as a cable should not affect an IEM performace except for microphonics and crosstalk
well if their is a signature change

then that can be a factor of capacitance, inductance and resistance of a cable

i can understand that there is resistance in stock cable etc

but when we or anybody or you write brighter sound from silver cable is actually may be something really bad going on

if we add series resistance to a speaker source it attenuates but also tilts the response toward the treble slightly due to signal block at low frequency
a capacitor may act as a high pass, so wire can have capacitance factor also going on.(micro cracks)
a inductor may resist the signal flow and can act as a low pass while tilting the response toward bass

and if we go with material conductivity and electron flow in a lattice structure
cryo treatment, the effect of change in conductivity is pretty negligible

i have tons of research papers on that and i was also writing papers on it for govt research here

Now lets talk about audio factor

the change in sound is negligible until or unless the braids on earphone side does not go more than 8, which means 4 to positive and 4 to negitive

since all the factor in the cable are pretty negligible

paralleling the wire will reduce inductance and resistance while increasing the capacitance
which stabilize the response rate tilting but will also high passing(negligible and out of hearing domain).

UPOCC cable dont have micro cracks so zero capacitance,

so from stock cable there can be an improvement in sound

but then all cables sound same to me except for stock and Penon Draco

Penon Draco is flagship cable for me
near zero crosstalks
near zero microphonics

and the sound just get slightly cleaner

even plusssound exo and horus sound same fot me
penon draco sounds cleaner overall due to weight of cable killing possible microphonics


hope you dont get offended by this post

i wrote what i though on this topic

i am doing research on military eval cables etc
so i though on sharing this info


----------



## SeeSax

TL;DR...

Cables don't affect sound! Except the Penon one.



-Collin-


----------



## pithyginger63

From my memory, there are converters for 3.5 se male to balanced female connections. How does that work and vice versa?


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> From my memory, there are converters for 3.5 se male to balanced female connections. How does that work and vice versa?



You cannot go from single-ended to balanced. It's physically impossible and adapters that claim to possess that ability either don't function at all or - more often - damage the devices they're connected to. Balanced *can* be adapted into single-ended simply by shorting the two grounds. Single-ended signals typically comprise of the left channel, the right channel and a shared ground. Balanced signals typically carry the same left and right channels, but they have dedicated grounds for left and right. You can't split the single-ended's shared ground, but you can short the two dedicated grounds on the balanced and create single-ended.


----------



## pithyginger63

Deezel177 said:


> You cannot go from single-ended to balanced. It's physically impossible and adapters that claim to possess that ability either don't function at all or - more often - damage the devices they're connected to. Balanced *can* be adapted into single-ended simply by shorting the two grounds. Single-ended signals typically comprise of the left channel, the right channel and a shared ground. Balanced signals typically carry the same left and right channels, but they have dedicated grounds for left and right. You can't split the single-ended's shared ground, but you can short the two dedicated grounds on the balanced and create single-ended.


that sucks, I was thinking of getting an interconnect to adapt from single ended male to 4.4 female to use with 4.4mm cables. Is it a better idea to have two cables, a balanced and a single ended?


----------



## Deezel177

pithyginger63 said:


> that sucks, I was thinking of getting an interconnect to adapt from single ended male to 4.4 female to use with 4.4mm cables. Is it a better idea to have two cables, a balanced and a single ended?



Ah, it seems I read your original message wrongly. When talking cables, I always prefer speaking from female to male, because it feels more natural that way. So, when you said, "SE male to balanced female," I immediately got confused. Regardless, my reply remains factually true. I did say balanced can be adapted to single-ended, so you can adapt your 4.4mm TRRRS cables into 3.5mm TRS. What you cannot do is the reverse, which I described in my reply. It seems you may have gotten confused as well.


----------



## pithyginger63

Deezel177 said:


> Ah, it seems I read your original message wrongly. When talking cables, I always prefer speaking from female to male, because it feels more natural that way. So, when you said, "SE male to balanced female," I immediately got confused. Regardless, my reply remains factually true. I did say balanced can be adapted to single-ended, so you can adapt your 4.4mm TRRRS cables into 3.5mm TRS. What you cannot do is the reverse, which I described in my reply. It seems you may have gotten confused as well.


Indeed I did 
but now all's clear


----------



## dhruvmeena96

the most expensive cable would be deulund


SeeSax said:


> TL;DR...
> 
> Cables don't affect sound! Except the Penon one.
> 
> ...


LoL

That was due to 16braid 
I have heard difference in 16braids.

I still dont believe in cables though

Microphonics and crosstalk was amazing
Better than Horus

We can measure crosstalks, that would be better

And in the end, if the source is amazing, then you dont really need cables though

I have benchmark media DAC2 HGC and almost all cable sound the same.

If we talk about material and effects

There is voltage and ampere focused amp

Use a tube amp and you will see cable magic, because it is a current or ampere factored amplifier.

That diminishes with voltage factored amplifiers. That is why AC is used in long term power and signal supply.

I am not here to debate about cable sound or anything. The cable market shows me advancement of metallurgy to drop resistance to near neglibile values which is amazing

But when a tube amp or old current style amp will show benifits as voltage is pretty low which is added DC to get to exact value. When a good cable is used, it passes DC correctly so the clarity can be heard.

Voltage amps have predefined signal strength by amplitude and it passes well through cable. DC and DC offset is made very low here and AC passes like anything.

Penon DRACO does very very amazing crosstalk and microphonics, that's why its clear and good for price


----------



## pithyginger63

dhruvmeena96 said:


> the most expensive cable would be deulund
> 
> LoL
> 
> ...


Try the Alo Gold 16 for me, there are so few impressions of it


----------



## dhruvmeena96

pithyginger63 said:


> Try the Alo Gold 16 for me, there are so few impressions of it


Gimme money for that
I had money for draco and I was comparing to friends Horus.
You can't expect that I will buy 999$ cable on government money

My salary is $5k a month(which is too much if we talk about Indian economy)

I live in india(I got benchmark dac and other when I used to work in Philadelphia)

Well I have to ask my rich friend, if he can buy that


----------



## davidmolliere (Feb 19, 2019)

pithyginger63 said:


> Try the Alo Gold 16 for me, there are so few impressions of it



I intend to write a review since I got one a few weeks ago... especially since the marketing pitch and the only review here on headfi are a bit off IMHO.
“The combination of gold and copper creates a unique sound that emphasizes mid and low ease of listening” is not how I read it... at all. I find the Gold 16 to be reference tuned. I has quite a bit of treble energy and presence not matter which source of IEMs I tested it with. Mids are on the clean and articulate side, and the lows are well controlled, punchy and textured. Bass has very good extension, control, and textures are beautiful.

It’s not at all what I expected from the pitch and few reviews and impressions. It’s not a laid back, relaxed cable.

Note that It has small footprint for an 8 wire / 16 conductor cable, and the build is great the only thing I didn’t care for is the (metal wired) memory wire that I got rid of carefully.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

Read this

And after that read my following

Pentaconn connection are superior due to balanced unbalanced dual driving

That is an hybrid approach of talking away faults of both balanced and unbalanced approach

Take a normal unbalanced amp. Take a normal balanced amp(normal means crappy in term of audiophile....lol)

Power the same headphone at same time and amp ground should end at same time or at same place.

This will drive headphone higher in volume while keeping the unbalanced amp electron balancing normal. It takes crosstalk and channel balance of unbalance amp while driving factor of balanced.

This may also help


And yes cable do make a difference in a tube amp(noticeably a lot) compared to voltage amps like neurochrome hp1 or O2)


----------



## pithyginger63

dhruvmeena96 said:


> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better
> 
> Read this
> 
> ...


big balanced cables also better due to less chance of crosstalk


----------



## dhruvmeena96 (Feb 19, 2019)

pithyginger63 said:


> big balanced cables also better due to less chance of crosstalk


Yup true

But the only given benefit of balanced is individual drive, which can lead to bigger power(it was made for that purpose by Siemens in 1972)

But different amp for channel needs tight matching with tolerances in comparison of 1% for even sounding, otherwise channel imbalance may happen

Crosstalk mainly happens due to lower channel isolation
Bigger cable smear up the crosstalk signal so crosstalk become smoother and less annoying.

It is not a cure, but a good quality bandaid


And by the way, a cable being braided into different patterns also effect the sound(is still negligible on low current factors, but you guys seem to notice it)

If the cable is round braided tight, the inductive forces cancel each other out.

But a loose braid only cancel the maximum at point of interaction, creating pockets of inductance, this can lead to smoother sound (very small low passes).

Loose Flat braid will sound the smoothest in my regard.
And the brighter one will be closed round braid(even most review for cables do say that, except for few copper one)


Copper electron shift needs more energy to actuate compared to silver, that's why silver sound brighter and copper sound softer and warmer

But at such small lenght and thickness, it doesn't really matter

I haven't seen a company making cables discussing about the real world factors except for Estron Linum(no nonsense company as estron makes BA and dynamic driver too. They told me on pm, that crazy marketing hype and super fancy cable dont do anything. Just get a spectrometer and scientific tools and measure each cable properly).

Connectors do matter more than cable. They have resistance.

Changing a stock to neutrik jack or oyaide makes difference

Because stock connector act as a tilter by adding small variable resistance(impedance).

Effect audio has the best connector in boutique cables
0.0001ohms(negligible) compared to old shure e2c 1ohms.

Effect audio ferrite cores work too.

Because my gaming mouse too have a ferrite core and tracking point was actually smoother in measurement compared to old model

Razer deathadder mk 1 vs 2016 model

They didn't change the chipset, just added chroma and a chunky ferrite core


I have tried silverFi iem r4 with my wizard savant. Near Zero cable parasitic losses(still small lenght doesn't matter) is a big feat and is noticeable. It loads the amp better on spectrography

But silver fi cable is not something to shell out money(dammmm too expensive).

R5 smoothness may be due to loose flat braid but that's not ideal.


If you want to make top of the line cable

Get carbon nanotube wool and find a way to connect to jacks(mmcx and 3.5mm)

I can even link carbon nanotube conductive signal ropes with thickness of 1mm and with kevlar shielding.

They are used in Space eval grade and its cheaper that the cables.
I mean 400$ and best cable is done

LoL

No offence

I think that will make a sound difference


----------



## honeyjjack

Lol this guy. You are in the wrong neigborhood my friend


----------



## dhruvmeena96

honeyjjack said:


> Lol this guy. You are in the wrong neigborhood my friend


i know
i am just stating the facts which can change the sound for a cable(if possible)
i am out sir
enjoy cables


----------



## ctaxxxx

Can any IEM experts help explain why my Hyla CE-5 does not seem to work with any 8-wire cables? I just got in the Han Sound Audio Zen 8 wire and I'm having THE SAME EXACT ISSUE with the Ares II 8 wire. Noise and distortion. This includes my DAP and iPhone... but wait! I just tested it with my R2R-11 desktop DAC/AMP, and it works! WHAT?! 

I have no clue what is the cause of the issue. Certain combinations work, while others do not. I'm going to send in my AMP8 for inspection to be safe. Not sure if Hyla will repair the CE-5 since it's out of production...


----------



## twister6

ctaxxxx said:


> Can any IEM experts help explain why my Hyla CE-5 does not seem to work with any 8-wire cables? I just got in the Han Sound Audio Zen 8 wire and I'm having THE SAME EXACT ISSUE with the Ares II 8 wire. Noise and distortion. This includes my DAP and iPhone... but wait! I just tested it with my R2R-11 desktop DAC/AMP, and it works! WHAT?!
> 
> I have no clue what is the cause of the issue. Certain combinations work, while others do not. I'm going to send in my AMP8 for inspection to be safe. Not sure if Hyla will repair the CE-5 since it's out of production...



All I can think of is some tolerance issue between different 4.4mm cable connectors, 4.4mm source sockets, as well as variations between adaptor connectors/sockets.  I'm running into similar issues with LPGT and AMP4/AMP8 on DX200.


----------



## pithyginger63

twister6 said:


> All I can think of is some tolerance issue between different 4.4mm cable connectors, 4.4mm source sockets, as well as variations between adaptor connectors/sockets.  I'm running into similar issues with LPGT and AMP4/AMP8 on DX200.


hmmm, that's something to be careful of, I'm switching to 4.4 mm soon. what does the issue sound like?


----------



## twister6

pithyginger63 said:


> hmmm, that's something to be careful of, I'm switching to 4.4 mm soon. what does the issue sound like?



the issue is that sometimes I have to pullout the cable connector a little out to fix the contact.


----------



## ctaxxxx

pithyginger63 said:


> hmmm, that's something to be careful of, I'm switching to 4.4 mm soon. what does the issue sound like?



Like a broken radio. Pulling out the plug a little does nothing...


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> Can any IEM experts help explain why my Hyla CE-5 does not seem to work with any 8-wire cables? I just got in the Han Sound Audio Zen 8 wire and I'm having THE SAME EXACT ISSUE with the Ares II 8 wire. Noise and distortion. This includes my DAP and iPhone... but wait! I just tested it with my R2R-11 desktop DAC/AMP, and it works! WHAT?!
> 
> I have no clue what is the cause of the issue. Certain combinations work, while others do not. I'm going to send in my AMP8 for inspection to be safe. Not sure if Hyla will repair the CE-5 since it's out of production...





ctaxxxx said:


> Like a broken radio. Pulling out the plug a little does nothing...



You probably won't like my answer, but here it goes anyway. 

I own the CE-5 as well and sadly, I had to have mine repaired (and yes, at a cost because it's out of warranty). I experienced something very similar to what you describe and it turns out that it was the socket. I blame myself, because I was "cable rolling" and tried 5-6 different cables in the IEM, but that eventually loosened up one of the sockets to where it was intermittent when using certain cables. It was very confusing, though, because the heavy cables (8-wire) would tug on the socket just right to where it would barely cut out and make the sound distorted. It was not a clear one side stopped working, instead it was an off or odd sound in one ear. 

So, are both IEMs doing this or just one? If both are doing the same thing at the same time, then I think it's a different issue. If you're experiencing sound that seems off in one ear at a time, then it might be the sockets giving out. Hyla fixed mine for a reasonable (well, $200) cost, but it was expensive to ship and a fairly long wait. I still commend their friendly service and professional attitude, but it's not something I wish to go through again. 

That said, I've never heard of any situation where an 8-wire cable causes issues with a DAP. Hope this helps my CE-5 friend!

-Collin-


----------



## ctaxxxx

SeeSax said:


> You probably won't like my answer, but here it goes anyway.
> 
> I own the CE-5 as well and sadly, I had to have mine repaired (and yes, at a cost because it's out of warranty). I experienced something very similar to what you describe and it turns out that it was the socket. I blame myself, because I was "cable rolling" and tried 5-6 different cables in the IEM, but that eventually loosened up one of the sockets to where it was intermittent when using certain cables. It was very confusing, though, because the heavy cables (8-wire) would tug on the socket just right to where it would barely cut out and make the sound distorted. It was not a clear one side stopped working, instead it was an off or odd sound in one ear.
> 
> ...



Wow, that's unfortunate. It does only happen with my Hyla CE-5. Luckily, I'm still within the 1 year warranty. I'd be surprised if it's the sockets though, because my Oriolus has taken more abuse. The CE-5 does tend to be more snug though. 

It's just the same 8-wire cables do work on AMP2, AMP4 (which I've sold), and my R2R-11. So logically, it shouldn't be the CE-5's sockets. If I remove the iPhone, AMP8 would be the next logical conclusion aa the cause of the issue. I'm sending it in for inspection and iBasso trends to be really quick with these, so it shouldn't be too long of a wait. Shipping was $35 for a small flat rate box and I'm still in warranty I think.


----------



## SeeSax

@ctaxxxx that's good news in that you probably don't have to have the CE-5 sent in for repair. Sounds source related which should be easier to get fixed. 

-Collin-


----------



## kubig123

I never had luck with the amp4s and 8 and my 4.4mm cables (most of them with Pentaconn and Furutech plug), there was always a certain degree of play that didn't grantee a firm contact.
This wasone of the main reason why i sold that player, meanwhile i never had any issue with the Lotoo Touch and the Cayin N8.


----------



## crabdog

My BTG Starlight finally arrived! I haven't had time to listen yet but am pleased with it physically - it's neither too floppy or rigid. Will spend some time over the weekend and try a few different pairings.


----------



## audio123 (Feb 25, 2019)

@Geared4me @Bosk

Just wrapped up my review of the Penon Draco, a limited edition 16 core silver cable with jade used in its components. Enjoy & Happy Listening!


----------



## kubig123

audio123 said:


> @Geared4me @Bosk
> 
> Just wrapped up my review of the Penon Draco, a limited edition 16 core silver cable with jade used in its components. Enjoy & Happy Listening!



interesting cable, how comfortable is it?


----------



## audio123

kubig123 said:


> interesting cable, how comfortable is it?


It's actually quite comfortable due to the material being really soft & supple.


----------



## 474194

SeeSax said:


>



I took a closer look at this cable.  Is the color of the cable sleeve dark brown?  BTW, VNC! (Very Nice Cable)...


----------



## SeeSax

Yep, brown indeed @AC-12


----------



## dhc0329

Is there some detail impression on Alo Gold 16 cable?Just ordered but not sure what to expect.


----------



## davidmolliere (Mar 1, 2019)

dhc0329 said:


> Is there some detail impression on Alo Gold 16 cable?Just ordered but not sure what to expect.



There is a review here on headfi, but I don’t really agree with it, nor do I agree with the product pitch in fact... _« The combination of gold and copper creates a unique sound that emphasizes mid and low ease of listening and pairs well with balanced armature based IEMs »_. To me the Gold 16 is not a relaxed signature, while it does features a nice mid bass boost and overall improved lows, it also features very articulate mids with significant upper mids presence and lively treble which by no means make it a relaxed or laid back presentation. It has a high degree of clarity. It’s not warm either, but rather lively and punchy to my ears and with the IEMs I have tested it with (Solaris, JVC FW10000, IT01S and FIBAE Black).


----------



## dhc0329

Thanks for your feedback. I am planning to use the cable exclusively with Solaris and R2R2K. To me these two devices are not wet but rather dry so wonder how this cable will play out. 
Solaris helps tone down piercing harshness from R2R2K but want to further enhance it as I have been told this cable is rather mellow and smooth. hearing from you, the cable doesn't
appear to be warm at all.


----------



## dhc0329

To my surprise the cable doesn't feel thick at all but still has some microphonic. Not as bad as Ref 8 but there is a noticeable level of microphonics. Too early to tell but compared to leo 2 this cable sounds a little too forward (sense of 'boxed-in' feeling) although not necessarily congested. It took away some treble energy used to have with leo 2 on r2rk. Definitely not as holographic as leo 2 while providing bigger bass slam.

Is this cable greatly impacted by burn-in?


----------



## kubig123

I tried the gold 16 for just few minutes a year ago, and I found it too to be very microphonic and the sound a little too congested. I personally think that the Leo2 is a much better cable and costs less.


----------



## dhc0329

Yeah, I didnt find this cable any better than leo 2 so far but then I only had this less than an hour.
Hopefully, some drastistic improvement with burn in. I find Alo cables to be all microphonics prone.


----------



## kubig123

Yes, same here, never found an Alo cable that is not microphonic.


----------



## twister6

I know Oslo cable is around the corner, but Truth was the one that put "awesome" plug on the map.  Erik (@Wyville) just shared his take on both Copper and Silver versions, a very good read covering all the pros and cons.


----------



## fuhransahis

Anyone know of a good 4.4mm female to 3.5mm male adapter?

Looking to use with my Ares II 8-wire. Reached out to Eric at Effect Audio to see if they could make one but no answer so far.


----------



## Deezel177

fuhransahis said:


> Anyone know of a good 4.4mm female to 3.5mm male adapter?
> 
> Looking to use with my Ares II 8-wire. Reached out to Eric at Effect Audio to see if they could make one but no answer so far.



PlusSound, PWAudio and Music Sanctuary make them.


----------



## Tanjiro

Hi All, I am greatly interested in Dita OSLO cable.  Does anyone know how much it will be for 2 Pin version?  Thanks.


----------



## 474194

I believe someone mentioned around $610 for the Dita OSLO on Nic's thread and it's confirmed at this site:

https://www.price.com.hk/product.php?p=389570

YMMV


----------



## twister6

moneypls said:


> Hi All, I am greatly interested in Dita OSLO cable.  Does anyone know how much it will be for 2 Pin version?  Thanks.



Should be up for sale on Music Sanctuary and Dita's websites next week.  I thought those should be $500, at least when I talked to DIta guys in the past, they mentioned that P71 is $1k IEM with $500 cable.  But don't quote me on this, let's wait and see for the official price tag next week.


----------



## Tanjiro (Mar 3, 2019)

twister6 said:


> Should be up for sale on Music Sanctuary and Dita's websites next week.  I thought those should be $500, at least when I talked to DIta guys in the past, they mentioned that P71 is $1k IEM with $500 cable.  But don't quote me on this, let's wait and see for the official price tag next week.



Thank you very much.


----------



## Tanjiro (Mar 3, 2019)

AC-12 said:


> I believe someone mentioned around $610 for the Dita OSLO on Nic's thread and it's confirmed at this site:
> 
> https://www.price.com.hk/product.php?p=389570
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot!


----------



## kubig123

Deezel177 said:


> PlusSound, PWAudio and Music Sanctuary make them.


On amazon japan you can find one by pentaconn.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/PENTACONN-...X236_SY340_QL65&keywords=日本ディックス(Nippon+Dics)


----------



## twister6

kubig123 said:


> On amazon japan you can find one by pentaconn.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.jp/PENTACONN-ペンタコン-φ3-5OFC-φ4-4JACK-変換ケーブル/dp/B07KXS5X62/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?__mk_ja_JP=カタカナ&qid=1551665711&sr=8-17&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=日本ディックス(Nippon+Dics)



I asked Andrew about this one but haven't heard back.  If you look at MusicTeck listing of SendyAudio Aiva headphones, it comes with 4.4mm to 3.5mm adaptor.  I wish if they can sell it separately.


----------



## Tanjiro (Mar 3, 2019)

Just got an email from Dita.  Price is U$599 for OSLO cable.

PS shipping included


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> I asked Andrew about this one but haven't heard back.  If you look at MusicTeck listing of SendyAudio Aiva headphones, it comes with 4.4mm to 3.5mm adaptor.  I wish if they can sell it separately.


I bought it ,and the 4.4 to 2.5, through buyee.  Really good quality, the pentaconn female 4.4 is extremely well made.


----------



## dhc0329

I just got this today and it wasn't too bad.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FMBV5P2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## fuhransahis

dhc0329 said:


> I just got this today and it wasn't too bad.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FMBV5P2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Have you noticed any change in tonality that might be caused be the adapter?


----------



## dhc0329 (Mar 3, 2019)

Actually, I bought this to connect my Solaris/Gold16 (4.4mm) cable to my old 1061 player for cable burning but didn't feel any drastic change.
What are you planning on connecting?


----------



## dhc0329

It's all silver cable with a good review. I thought it looks okay and sound alright. It's only $20. If you don't feel right, you can return it. 
I use $30 fiio 2.5mm<>3.5mm adapter on my N8 for tube connection and have no complain. Sounds just as good.


----------



## fuhransahis

dhc0329 said:


> Actually, I bought this to connect my Solaris/Gold16 (4.4mm) cable to my old 1061 player for cable burning but didn't feel any drastic change.
> What are you planning on connecting?





dhc0329 said:


> It's all silver cable with a good review. I thought it looks okay and sound alright. It's only $20. If you don't feel right, you can return it.
> I use $30 fiio 2.5mm<>3.5mm adapter on my N8 for tube connection and have no complain. Sounds just as good.



Ares II 8 wire, looking for an adapter for when the NuTube Amp 9 module comes out for the DX200. Also thought about just buying another cable altogether but not keen on having the connectors on the Phantom go loose.

Certainly an easy try at $20 though


----------



## ctaxxxx

davidmolliere said:


> I haven’t heard the Ares II in 8 wire, so I won't be able to provide comparisons... but I did enjoy the Hansound Zen 4 wire so much I got the 8 wire not long after.
> To my ears the Hansound Zen both 4 and 8 wire is fairly transparent and very smooth, it has moderate warmth. The mids are quite balanced and the highs are well extended. I like the balance between good body and nice separation.
> 
> I think the Zen review by Nic on THL applies, as the 8 wire is basically the 4 wire but with better soundstage, separation and better extension up top. The ergonomics is great, when I got the 4 wire I was surprised by the low footprint and how supple it is. The 8 wire is very usable even on the go. The build is really good. Great value IMHO. I found the Zen 4 wire smoother, more transparent than the Ares II 4 wires which is more dynamic and “agressive”.



Do you happen to remember if the 4-wire was less mid-forward than the 8-wire? I like the Zen's sound signature, but do find it a little mid-forward with the Hyla CE-5. 

Also, I'm not sure I like Han Sound Audio's choice of not using molded ear hooks(?). It sounds really microphonic when rubbing against my glasses, and the weight is noticeably pulling out my IEMs more than the Ares 8-wire. The chin slider doesn't help too...


----------



## davidmolliere

To me the signature is really consistent between 4 and 8 wires, if you find the 8 wire mid forward then the 4 wire won't be different, in fact it might be a little more so as the soundstage is not as big it will be a bit more forward.


----------



## SeeSax

ctaxxxx said:


> Wow, that's unfortunate. It does only happen with my Hyla CE-5. Luckily, I'm still within the 1 year warranty. I'd be surprised if it's the sockets though, because my Oriolus has taken more abuse. The CE-5 does tend to be more snug though.
> 
> It's just the same 8-wire cables do work on AMP2, AMP4 (which I've sold), and my R2R-11. So logically, it shouldn't be the CE-5's sockets. If I remove the iPhone, AMP8 would be the next logical conclusion aa the cause of the issue. I'm sending it in for inspection and iBasso trends to be really quick with these, so it shouldn't be too long of a wait. Shipping was $35 for a small flat rate box and I'm still in warranty I think.



@ctaxxxx Hey man, not sure where you ended up on this issue but sadly I think I am now experiencing the exact same thing. Plugging my Eros II 8-wire into my CE-5 and playing it through the DX200 with Amp8 does very weird things, most notably a very loud static noise in the right ear. Doesn't happen on my Sony desktop setup and doesn't happen with my Samurai II cable (which is four wire). Very odd and sounds almost identical to your situation. 

Maybe we can take this to PM because it's slightly OT for the cable thread, but would you mind providing an update and letting me know where you are on the issue? As it stands, I'm about to throw my Amp8 and DX200 into the trash can. 

Cheers, 

-Collin-


----------



## ctaxxxx

SeeSax said:


> @ctaxxxx Hey man, not sure where you ended up on this issue but sadly I think I am now experiencing the exact same thing. Plugging my Eros II 8-wire into my CE-5 and playing it through the DX200 with Amp8 does very weird things, most notably a very loud static noise in the right ear. Doesn't happen on my Sony desktop setup and doesn't happen with my Samurai II cable (which is four wire). Very odd and sounds almost identical to your situation.
> 
> Maybe we can take this to PM because it's slightly OT for the cable thread, but would you mind providing an update and letting me know where you are on the issue? As it stands, I'm about to throw my Amp8 and DX200 into the trash can.
> 
> ...



This is after your CE-5 is repaired too? That's not good... I guess it crosses the Hyla CE-5 off the list of culprits... 

My AMP8 is still on its way to iBasso for inspection. I'll let you know via PM what happens when I get it back.


----------



## deafdoorknob (Mar 6, 2019)

got a 35% off discount on the EA Thor Silver II, jfc, it’s the Nicki Minaj of silver cables... it’s almost too enhanced to be real, not sure i like it or not, impressed, yes, shocked, yup, but it altered the tonality of the iems to such a large degree and consistently that i am a little taken aback, and this is coming from an obessive and (relatively) experienced cable roller... smh... hmmm...


----------



## Tanjiro (Mar 6, 2019)

Got my Dita OSLO today.  Time for burn-in.


----------



## dhc0329

Looks great. How's the ergonomic? Does it sound that warm and fuzzy?


----------



## Tanjiro (Mar 7, 2019)

dhc0329 said:


> Looks great. How's the ergonomic? Does it sound that warm and fuzzy?



Hello, the cable is not as supple as 1960s but it is not stiff definitely. 

Initial thought: Bass is deep and less punchy than 1960s.  High is less sharp (or I would say less emphasis than on 1960s).  The best part is for female vocal, I think it's a bit better than 1960s.  I would say OSLO is a very musical cable.  Microscopic is as good as 1960s.  Still need more time to let it burn-in.
YMMV


----------



## kubig123

moneypls said:


> Hello, the cable is not as supple as 1960s but it is not stiff definitely.
> 
> Initial thought: Bass is deep and less punchy than 1960s.  High is less sharp (or I would say less emphasis than on 1960s).  The best part is for female vocal, I think it's a bit better than 1960s.  I would say OSLO is a very musical cable.  Microphonic is as good as 1960s.  Still need more time to let it burn-in.
> YMMV


very interesting, where did you find it, I've been looking for an online seller, but i could find one that has the cable in stock?


----------



## Tanjiro (Mar 7, 2019)

kubig123 said:


> very interesting, where did you find it, I've been looking for an online seller, but i could find one that has the cable in stock?


I sent email to dita audio directly and placed my order there.  They have yet to update the web page.

The person who helped me is named Darren.  I love this cable so far, even though I already have 2 wire 1960s.


----------



## kubig123

moneypls said:


> I sent email to dita audio directly and placed my order there.  They have yet to update the web page.
> 
> The person who helped me is named Darren.  I love this cable so far, even though I already have 2 wire 1960s.



thanks,
i might give it a try, the 1960 is one of my favorite cable too, but the dita plug is a big benefit for me.


----------



## Tanjiro

kubig123 said:


> thanks,
> i might give it a try, the 1960 is one of my favorite cable too, but the dita plug is a big benefit for me.


 
Don't forget the contact enhancer.  It really does the magic


----------



## crabdog

For anyone interested I just posted my review of the BTG-Audio Starlight. Great value cable. Enjoy.
https://primeaudio.org/btg-audio-starlight-review/


----------



## dhc0329

Anyone has an idea how microphonic PW 1960 2-wire cable is? I thought EA Leo II was pretty good but wondering how 1960 compares to Leo.


----------



## kubig123

dhc0329 said:


> Anyone has an idea how microphonic PW 1960 2-wire cable is? I thought EA Leo II was pretty good but wondering how 1960 compares to Leo.


It’s not microphonic at all, extremely supple.
Of all the cables I own, it’s the most flexible one. Just keep in mind that the sound signature is different from the Leo.


----------



## aaf evo

Any cable suggestions for the A18t? I’m using the PW Audio 1950s right now with my SP1000M but I’m considering something slightly cheaper with a little more bass impact.


----------



## dhc0329

kubig123 said:


> It’s not microphonic at all, extremely supple.
> Of all the cables I own, it’s the most flexible one. Just keep in mind that the sound signature is different from the Leo.



How different? Would you care to explain a little?


----------



## kubig123

dhc0329 said:


> How different? Would you care to explain a little?


The 1960 pulls forward the mid and bass, the Leoni’s more transparent and extends the treble and has a slightly higher resolution.


----------



## kubig123

aaf evo said:


> Any cable suggestions for the A18t? I’m using the PW Audio 1950s right now with my SP1000M but I’m considering something slightly cheaper with a little more bass impact.


What’s your price point?
I would recommend the PW 1960 or the EA Janus D.

You’ll loose some resolution and sound stage compared to the 1950, but I agree Theis cable has very lean bass. If you want to keep the same amount of soundstage than I’ll recommend the 1960, but it’s freaking expensive.


----------



## dhc0329

Thanks for your quick impression. If it takes away the transparency and resolution, then it is not for me.


----------



## aaf evo

kubig123 said:


> What’s your price point?
> I would recommend the PW 1960 or the EA Janus D.
> 
> You’ll loose some resolution and sound stage compared to the 1950, but I agree Theis cable has very lean bass. If you want to keep the same amount of soundstage than I’ll recommend the 1960, but it’s freaking expensive.



More or less anything cheaper than the 1950s so just about any cable lol. The Janus ergonomics were terrible for me.


----------



## kubig123

aaf evo said:


> More or less anything cheaper than the 1950s so just about any cable lol. The Janus ergonomics were terrible for me.


Yea, the Janus is a little too thick to be comfortable, the A18 has already enough bass on its own, any cable would be an improvement compared to the 1950 (in term of bass), try the Leo II.


----------



## aaf evo

kubig123 said:


> Yea, the Janus is a little too thick to be comfortable, the A18 has already enough bass on its own, any cable would be an improvement compared to the 1950 (in term of bass), try the Leo II.



I’m actually really liking the sound of the provided cable from 64 Audio but it’s 3.5mm and I can’t take advantage of the balanced port on my DAP, lol.

I’ll see if the 1950s sells, cables at this price are always a slow shift. Then I’ll start looking around more. I’m also considering changing to the Gold SP1000M as it’s supposed to be a more warm signature but I’ll see on that one.


----------



## kubig123

aaf evo said:


> I’m actually really liking the sound of the provided cable from 64 Audio but it’s 3.5mm and I can’t take advantage of the balanced port on my DAP, lol.
> 
> I’ll see if the 1950s sells, cables at this price are always a slow shift. Then I’ll start looking around more. I’m also considering changing to the Gold SP1000M as it’s supposed to be a more warm signature but I’ll see on that one.


Then have the cable re-terminate. David at Triton Audio Cable can do it and is not too expensive.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

kubig123 said:


> Then have the cable re-terminate. David at Triton Audio Cable can do it and is not too expensive.



Any idea how much he charges?


----------



## Moonstar (Mar 13, 2019)

Here is my review of the Penon Fiery, A warm sounding & affordable cable

https://moonstarreviews.net/penon_fiery_cable_review/


----------



## deafdoorknob

aaf evo said:


> I’m actually really liking the sound of the provided cable from 64 Audio but it’s 3.5mm and I can’t take advantage of the balanced port on my DAP, lol.
> 
> I’ll see if the 1950s sells, cables at this price are always a slow shift. Then I’ll start looking around more. I’m also considering changing to the Gold SP1000M as it’s supposed to be a more warm signature but I’ll see on that one.



the 64 audio stock cable is avaliable in balanced configs... and very affordable cf 1950


----------



## Tanjiro

The contact enhancer comes with Dita OSLO is absolutely crazy & addictive!  I put a thin layer on my 1960s 2 pin connectors.  It makes the 1960s sounds even much better with my EE Phantom.


----------



## SeeSax

moneypls said:


> The contact enhancer comes with Dita OSLO is absolutely crazy & addictive!  I put a thin layer on my 1960s 2 pin connectors.  It makes the 1960s sounds even much better with my EE Phantom.



You must elaborate on this! I wanted to look into this cable for my Dita Dream and am curious about this snake oil (that might be actual sound-enhancing oil) I should put on other IEMs. 

-Collin-


----------



## Tanjiro

SeeSax said:


> You must elaborate on this! I wanted to look into this cable for my Dita Dream and am curious about this snake oil (that might be actual sound-enhancing oil) I should put on other IEMs.
> 
> -Collin-



The contact enhancer is definitely not a snake oil to me.  It really does the magic.
The bass becomes a bit harder, sound is more airy/open from 1960s after applying the enhancer.  Just a very thin layer will do the trick.


----------



## audio123

Hi everyone, here is the Han Sound Audio Cables Discussion Thread!


----------



## SeeSax

moneypls said:


> The contact enhancer is definitely not a snake oil to me.  It really does the magic.
> The bass becomes a bit harder, sound is more airy/open from 1960s after applying the enhancer.  Just a very thin layer will do the trick.



@moneypls was kind enough to answer my questions via PM and I am very appreciative. Ordered the Oslo straight from Dita and it's already in the mail via DHL. Desmond and Darren are awesome. Can't wait to see how this cable is with the Dream. 

-Collin-


----------



## hugo poon (Mar 21, 2019)

SeeSax said:


> @moneypls was kind enough to answer my questions via PM and I am very appreciative. Ordered the Oslo straight from Dita and it's already in the mail via DHL. Desmond and Darren are awesome. Can't wait to see how this cable is with the Dream.
> 
> -Collin-



Congrats! The Dita Oslo fits well, looks nice and sounds beautiful.


----------



## twister6

hugo poon said:


> Congrats! The Dita Oslo fits well, looks nice and sounds beautiful.



Except this is black'n'white picture and in real life copper wire OSLO will not look like this


----------



## aaf evo

hugo poon said:


> Congrats! The Dita Oslo fits well, looks nice and sounds beautiful.



Where do I find out more on this cable ? The website just says coming soon.


----------



## hugo poon

twister6 said:


> Except this is black'n'white picture and in real life copper wire OSLO will not look like this



Here's the "untouched" colour version


----------



## hugo poon

aaf evo said:


> Where do I find out more on this cable ? The website just says coming soon.



Check this out:

https://www.facebook.com/1388487274714109/posts/2333654156864078/


----------



## aaf evo

hugo poon said:


> Check this out:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/1388487274714109/posts/2333654156864078/



Thanks. I’m very intrigued. Shot them a PM about getting one since I’m in the states and I don’t see a distributor for them.

Any impressions on the cable?


----------



## twister6

aaf evo said:


> Thanks. I’m very intrigued. Shot them a PM about getting one since I’m in the states and I don’t see a distributor for them.
> 
> Any impressions on the cable?



I will have a full review in a day or so.


----------



## EagleWings

For those interested in getting an Oslo cable for you Empire Ears IEM, it’s probably best you skip the Oslo. It’s a very tight fit with my Phantom and it only goes half way in. I checked with @twister6  and he too confirmed the poor fit with his Legend X. But the good news is, he did say that the cable fits well with all the other 2-pin IEMs he tried.


----------



## twister6

EagleWings said:


> For those interested in getting an Oslo cable for you Empire Ears IEM, it’s probably best you skip the Oslo. It’s a very tight fit with my Phantom and it only goes half way in. I checked with @twister6  and he too confirmed the poor fit with his Legend X. But the good news is, he did say that the cable fits well with all the other 2-pin IEMs he tried.



Indeed, very bizarre.  Both Vishnu and I confirmed that Phantom and Legend X 2pin sockets don't fit Oslo cable connectors.  While I tested and verified with dozens of other IEMs, and they all work fine with Oslo cable.  Probably some tolerance issue with Empire Ears 2pin sockets.


----------



## SeeSax

twister6 said:


> Indeed, very bizarre.  Both Vishnu and I confirmed that Phantom and Legend X 2pin sockets don't fit Oslo cable connectors.  While I tested and verified with dozens of other IEMs, and they all work fine with Oslo cable.  Probably some tolerance issue with Empire Ears 2pin sockets.



Odd indeed.

I ordered mine with the specific Dream 2-pin connectors and it will arrive today. I'll try those with the Legend X and report back. It's probably just an angled connector instead so probably no difference.

-Collin-


----------



## twister6

Here it is, as promised, full detailed review of DITA Audio OSLO cable, just posted here.  Enjoy the read!


----------



## SeeSax (Mar 22, 2019)

twister6 said:


> Here it is, as promised, full detailed review of DITA Audio OSLO cable, just posted here.  Enjoy the read!



Excellent and informative review with great comparisons as always. Now hurry up DHL, I want mine!!!

-Collin-

Edit: two things greatly annoy me already about this cable. 1) there is no L/R marker, though one side has a small raised dot. Figured that was the right side, guessed wrong. 2) the Dream specific version appears to have no pre-shaped ear hooks. Just loose wire that is straight. It doesn't stay behind my ear at all, in fact it seems ergonomically worse than the Truth cable for that reason (which is a massive fail, if you ask me). 

Can't comment on the sound yet as I just got it, but this has not lived up to my expectations if I'm being brutally honest.

-Collin-


----------



## ctaxxxx

SeeSax said:


> @ctaxxxx Hey man, not sure where you ended up on this issue but sadly I think I am now experiencing the exact same thing. Plugging my Eros II 8-wire into my CE-5 and playing it through the DX200 with Amp8 does very weird things, most notably a very loud static noise in the right ear. Doesn't happen on my Sony desktop setup and doesn't happen with my Samurai II cable (which is four wire). Very odd and sounds almost identical to your situation.
> 
> Maybe we can take this to PM because it's slightly OT for the cable thread, but would you mind providing an update and letting me know where you are on the issue? As it stands, I'm about to throw my Amp8 and DX200 into the trash can.
> 
> ...



Got my AMP8 back. No problems so far with the Hyla CE-5 + Zen 8-wire or Ares II 8-wire.

Now time to finally decide if I'll stick with the Zen 8 or the Eos 4 for the Hyla CE-5. The Zen sounds great with foams, but I prefer silicones. Also, Zen sounds much better with AMP8 rather than AMP1 or 2. Reminds how important synergy is.


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> Excellent and informative review with great comparisons as always. Now hurry up DHL, I want mine!!!
> 
> -Collin-
> 
> ...



Just to confirm you ordered a different version OSLO than what the “regular” one is?


----------



## aaf evo

twister6 said:


> Here it is, as promised, full detailed review of DITA Audio OSLO cable, just posted here.  Enjoy the read!



Great review, this is tempting me to buy one as I was already intrigued beforehand. A bit worried about the Legend X connector problem though.


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> Just to confirm you ordered a different version OSLO than what the “regular” one is?



Well, the cables should all be the same and you get choice of connector. I got the Dita two pin connector rather than the "regular" one. I'll post a photo for reference in a few minutes.


----------



## SeeSax

So here's the "Dream" version: 



 

As you can see, the cable doesn't exactly want to fall behind your ear. 

Sound quality sounds as advertised, with a more musical quality than the Truth cable, but I don't know why it is so hard for Dita to make an ergonomic cable for the Dream.

From the reviews and photos, the regular 2-pin version gets it right with properly comfortable ear hooks. Sad that this one diverges from that. 

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> So here's the "Dream" version:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see, maybe DITA would swap yours out?


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> I see, maybe DITA would swap yours out?



I'll see if wearing it for a few hours or trying to shape it a bit with a hairdryer works. 

The sound quality might make it worth keeping  It's a wonderful pairing so far with the Dream. It does NOT sound like a typical copper cable. I'm hearing great extension in the treble, but also the analogue-like bass Alex described in his review. Yet, it's not a v-shaped cable, properly brings out the best of vocals as well. I'll wrestle this thing into submission, just like I did with the Truth cable. 

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> I'll see if wearing it for a few hours or trying to shape it a bit with a hairdryer works.
> 
> The sound quality might make it worth keeping  It's a wonderful pairing so far with the Dream. It does NOT sound like a typical copper cable. I'm hearing great extension in the treble, but also the analogue-like bass Alex described in his review. Yet, it's not a v-shaped cable, properly brings out the best of vocals as well. I'll wrestle this thing into submission, just like I did with the Truth cable.
> 
> -Collin-



Any other first impressions that you have compared other cables?

Really debating grabbing one for my Legend X or A18t, thinking A18t and moving the 1950s back to the Legend X which was a match made in heaven.


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> Any other first impressions that you have compared other cables?
> 
> Really debating grabbing one for my Legend X or A18t, thinking A18t and moving the 1950s back to the Legend X which was a match made in heaven.



I'll try to compare to other cables over the next few days, but so far only comparison is with the Dita Truth cable that I mentioned. 

Twister6 said the 2-pin doesn't work well with the Legend X sockets for some reason, so it's something to consider. I think Daniel agreed on that. 

For $599, I think it's a fair deal for a nice cable. The Awesome plug is of no use to me because I use exclusively 4.4mm, but a very nice implementation and concept and I wish all cables had it. Nothing much else to say other than I think this cable pairs very well with IEMs where you want to bring out the best of the sound signature while adding a nice touch of musicality. It is not a bright cable, but I wouldn't call it warm either. It tames some fairly prominent treble on the Dream while adding a nice body to the bass. Exactly what I wanted sound-wise. 

-Collin-


----------



## daid1

twister6 said:


> Here it is, as promised, full detailed review of DITA Audio OSLO cable, just posted here.  Enjoy the read!



The plug used for the Awesome termination, is an XLR like the XLR connector used for the JH audio?


----------



## ayang02

twister6 said:


> Here it is, as promised, full detailed review of DITA Audio OSLO cable, just posted here.  Enjoy the read!



Excellent review! I've been thinking about whether to get the 2-pin or the MMCX OSLO for the past month. It would be "awesome" if Dita comes up with interchangeable 2-pin/MMCX connectors in the future.

Now it seems like I should go for the MMCX version since I already have a 2-pin PlusSound Tri-Copper cable. From your review, the OSLO seems to pair well with the Andromeda, hopefully the SS version pairs well with the cable too.

By the way, do you know if the gold/silver oil Dita uses is similar to Furutech's gold/silver nanoliquid? Furutech has been selling this oil for years and some OSLO owners noted both of these oil have the same description: gold/silver particles & similar brownish tint.


----------



## hugo poon

SeeSax said:


> So here's the "Dream" version:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Strange. This is how my 2-pin version is like:


----------



## Wyville

hugo poon said:


> Strange. This is how my 2-pin version is like:


Yours has regular CIEM 2-pin connectors, but @SeeSax bought the one with Dita's Dream specific connectors. So there are regular 2-pin and MMCX connectors, as well as Dream, Fealty/Fidelity and P71 specific connectors (I believe P71 has slightly different MMCX as well).


----------



## hugo poon (Mar 23, 2019)

SeeSax said:


> I'll try to compare to other cables over the next few days, but so far only comparison is with the Dita Truth cable that I mentioned.
> 
> Twister6 said the 2-pin doesn't work well with the Legend X sockets for some reason, so it's something to consider. I think Daniel agreed on that.
> 
> ...



And the price includes the "contact enhancer" as well. I'm already addicted to it...


----------



## twister6

daid1 said:


> The plug used for the Awesome termination, is an XLR like the XLR connector used for the JH audio?



Sorry, don't have any JH iems for comparison.


----------



## kubig123

daid1 said:


> The plug used for the Awesome termination, is an XLR like the XLR connector used for the JH audio?


No, it’s a specific connector, the design is similar to the 4pin jh connector but it’s bigger and sturdier.


----------



## daid1

got it thanks


----------



## mrgray (Mar 23, 2019)

GOOD CABLE = an absence of error.  Everything seems more perfect than it has ever been.

We all presumably at some point had our first experience with stereo sounds creating a 3d effect in our heads.  Maybe this turned us onto audio.  Does it get better goes hand in hand with that for some of us at least.

Does it get better?  For me the experience of cables is intrinsic to that question.  It is possible that my initial setup (64 audio Trio and sony WM1Z – both pretty natural and clean) magnifies the importance of cables to me.  Also I never change the DAP sound settings, I just try and leave it alone as much as possible following initial setup (which was to turn off as much stuff as possible).


So the cable is the EQ for me.  It is the colour.  It definitely impacts the sound I get.  I do think it would be difficult to assess difference via blind test.  My R4 cable for example would be impossible to “blind” test for as the ergonomics are so unique that anonymity is impossible.


Just because it isn’t so striking as to be able to necessarily identify by blind test (although I think in some cases I could) doesn’t mean it doesn’t impact on listening experience significantly.


For me after an hour on a bad setup is where I start to hate on it.  It's claustrophobic or shrill or confused/chaotic perhaps.  Unpleasant.  How does another cable help?


My cable experience to date:

1.    I bought 64 Audio Trio’s.  Started with stock cable into 3.5 mm on WM1z.  all the action happens in front of my eyes (so close it also makes me cross eyed).  Resolution is very good.  Layering is distinct-ish but it's all happening in one tight compressed spot.  Fun cable though.  Didn’t make poor quality recordings sound sh**.

2.    Then I get an Alo Ref 8 with 4.4 mm so I can use the exalted balanced output from WM1z.  Sound stage, resolution, holographic effect all dazzle me.  I start buying music I hate because it's high res and I crave listening to the way this cable lets me hear “everything”.  Don’t listen to most of music collection because it's not High Res.  End up buying 3 different copies of "highway 61 revisited" trying to see what different album resolutions sound like.  This is one of the great things that happened in this period is I started being able to actual listen to what was on a record and it re-ignited interest in music that was tired for me.  I bought the silverfi r4.  I was in heaven.  Sometimes I would listen to BW PX instead of Alo ref8 on train because sounded pretty good even though Bluetooth (in hindsight I was looking for warmth – alo ref8 stabs your ears a bit).

3.    silverfi R4 I listened to whilst I was also going thru break in phase.  I would leave it playing overnight but listen everyday.  Over the burn in the resolution massively improved.  Went overall from like cloudy day to beautiful sunny day.

4.    R4 was like having an expert tweaking setup for each song.  The expert had ears that were golden.  He/she (really it is a he and his name is Sezai and he is a very nice chap) always got it right.  Treble never jangly but still it shimmered under golden light.  Bass tight and visceral with no bleed into anything else.  Huge amounts of space (like the band had setup in a warehouse rather than a stage).  With the 4.4 mm it was almost too much space.  Reduced emotion maybe.  Anyway I fixed that, I used the r4 commuting and it broke!  Silverfi told me there are 12 cables being soldered onto the 4.4 mm plug and its just not robust.  So I shipped it back and they put it on 3.5 mm

5.    Meanwhile im listening to the BW PX more and more because (in hindsight) the Alo Ref 8 is just hellish bright with my setup (and im too dumb to actually change EQ settings).

6.    R4 comes back with 3.5mm.  I feel like its gotten cloudier which I wonder might be new connection stuff not burnt in.

7.    On r4 I listen to high res kate bush.  Because r4 will never let anything thru gate that is too bright for my ears I can turn it up a bit.  The song “feel it” by kate bush quite literally gives me feelings and I start crying like a baby (I’m 44).  Why am I crying?  Because it's just so beautiful.  Every single second of it and i'm in the face of kate bush’s genius and it is too much.  A person who couldn’t sing a false note.  and the composition! Staggering.

8.    The r4 ergonomics are unworkable for travel though and so i'm in a quandry.  Finally I think I understand that the alo ref8 is killing my overall system (which i mainly listen to whilst commuting).  The r4 can’t help because it can’t leave the house.

9.    So then I buy a PW audio 1950s.  2nd hand it didn’t kill me and lucky enough to get from a fellow Sydney based head fier.  I have never heard this cable before.  3.5 mm termination.  Already burnt in.

10.  The cable is a revelation!  Firstly its ergonomics (less mic than alo ref8 (alo ref8 is an actual microphone I think) and doesn’t push against iem’s like r4.  Sound is so “safe”.  Nothing crazy which means I can turn up a bit and know i'm not going to get stabbed in the ears by something.  Nothing bright and horrid.  Very good detail.  Nice width.

11.  Over time it keeps getting better and i'm listening to my non high res music collection again.  It’s a cable that lets me listen to an aac file without just moaning.  It’s a cable that honestly presents stuff.  Its clear and it is what it is but its given a nice bit of presentation too, some warmth and some tone.

12.  The 1950s is a mini r4.  Not as big, not as “golden or fragile”, but fun and punchy with great blacks and lovely tone and very good detail and space.  Instruments are contained to themselves and nothing bleeds.  But very importantly the detail isn’t overwhelming and musicality is still wonderful.  Just like the r4 it feels like a curator is operating the equipment to your constant benefit.  And they are sort of leaving everything as natural as can be but always making sure you can hear each instrument and each note.


----------



## deafdoorknob

twister6 said:


> Indeed, very bizarre.  Both Vishnu and I confirmed that Phantom and Legend X 2pin sockets don't fit Oslo cable connectors.  While I tested and verified with dozens of other IEMs, and they all work fine with Oslo cable.  Probably some tolerance issue with Empire Ears 2pin sockets.



very tight fit with older plastic universal 64 audio iems as well. whereas the truth is overly loose!


----------



## twister6

deafdoorknob said:


> very tight fit with older plastic universal 64 audio iems as well. whereas the truth is overly loose!



I have to clarify, it didn't fit all the way in, but I was still able to make a contact to do LX sound evaluation with OSLO.


----------



## SeeSax (Mar 24, 2019)

twister6 said:


> I have to clarify, it didn't fit all the way in, but I was still able to make a contact to do LX sound evaluation with OSLO.



This sounds like every Rhapsodio cable I have. I think the pins are ever so slightly larger, which makes them very secure in all my IEMs, and then makes other cables too loose in my IEMs! Sounds like Oslo is similar.

-Collin-

Edit: also confirming that the angled two-pin version (for Dita Dream) does not fit in Legend X all the way, or even halfway really. It makes contact to at least have a listen and it's a shame because this is an awesome pairigng.


----------



## 474194

Great fifth post.  Welcome to Head-Fi and the SilverFi Fam!

I'm just dropping in to make a quick reply.  I'm on hiatus so don't plan to post info/photos on R1 & R4 until mid-summer when I find more time.  Please don't reply to this post as I'm just in and out till summer.  Just hoping to share some helpful tidbits.

I streamlined my purchasing to only Chord and SilverFi products.  Without the two options available, I would just quit this hobby as it would not be worth the pursuit.  JMHO.



mrgray said:


> My R4 cable for example would be impossible to “blind” test for as the ergonomics are so unique that anonymity is impossible.



My R4 ergonomically disappears now.  In a "blind" test, I would not notice the difference unless I physically feel the cable width.    It's quite comfortable.  I have experienced where the ergonomics pull up on the IEMs.  That's history with my R4 now.  It's probably physically impossible for that to happen with mine.  I just have to use cable wraps where the cable touches the back of your ear for cleanliness.  But that's no biggie.  Cable wraps easily replaceable.  I also maybe able to eliminate the microphonics, but not experimenting until summer.  So if I was commuting on a train, it would be somewhat portable.  No way I would take it outside the old way, the new way I would not mind if it was a commuter train.  It completely disappears behind the ears from neck up.



mrgray said:


> For me after an hour on a bad setup is where I start to hate on it.  It's claustrophobic or shrill or confused/chaotic perhaps.  Unpleasant.  How does another cable help?



Yes, it's important to choose the right equipment.  Lots of hyped equipment maybe fine for 30 minutes, but > few hours you need something to be able to live with comfortably ...



mrgray said:


> 2.   I bought the silverfi r4.  I was in heaven.
> 
> 4.    R4 was like having an expert tweaking setup for each song.  The expert had ears that were golden.  He/she (really it is a he and his name is Sezai and he is a very nice chap) always got it right.  Treble never jangly but still it shimmered under golden light.  Bass tight and visceral with no bleed into anything else.  Huge amounts of space (like the band had setup in a warehouse rather than a stage).  With the 4.4 mm it was almost too much space.  Reduced emotion maybe.  Anyway I fixed that, I used the r4 commuting and it broke!  Silverfi told me there are 12 cables being soldered onto the 4.4 mm plug and its just not robust.  So I shipped it back and they put it on 3.5 mm



Ditto on #2.  Have you considered using the 4.4 mm plug on a SilverFi R1?  That's only 8-wires.  I wanted some of the R4 sound while on-the-go, so I took a big risk on obtaining a R1 for this purpose.  Fortunately, it worked out.  Sezai offers round-braiding for up to 10-wires.  I consider the R1 portable except it's a little stiff when putting it away in a case or bag.  I just need to eliminate the microphonics and then it should be fine for portable use.  I think the R1 is the sweet spot for portable price/performance SQ.  I'll take the R1 over 1960's 4-wire, Horus, 1950's or any TOTL portable cable.  Mine is tuned to neutral and it's quite a beautiful cable too with the round-braiding.



mrgray said:


> 7.    On r4 I listen to high res kate bush.  Because r4 will never let anything thru gate that is too bright for my ears I can turn it up a bit.  The song “feel it” by kate bush quite literally gives me feelings and I start crying like a baby (I’m 44).  Why am I crying?  Because it's just so beautiful.  Every single second of it and i'm in the face of kate bush’s genius and it is too much.  A person who couldn’t sing a false note.  and the composition! Staggering.



I may have shed a tear on two.... Makes the journey all worth it....  Anyways, I'll be back in the summer to make a post or two on the SilverFis.  I'm out...


----------



## dhc0329

CA makes great IEMs but I am really not sure if their ALO cables bring up these IEMs to their fullest potential. 
All ALO cables I tested seem somewhat muffled and 2-dimensional in comparison to Leo 2 using Solaris. 
Of course, the differences are subtle but enough to feel it. Gold 16 improves quite a bit but it wasn't my signature.


----------



## 1BADJAD

SeeSax said:


> Me three. FYI the proper ratio of cables to IEMs is 2:1 (and it is a requirement to post in this thread).
> 
> -Collin-


 Hmm...wait a minute.  Did you maintain the proper 2:1 cable to IEM ratio after selling me two of your cables?  Please do not reply without the proper ratio.


----------



## SeeSax

1BADJAD said:


> Hmm...wait a minute.  Did you maintain the proper 2:1 cable to IEM ratio after selling me two of your cables?  Please do not reply without the proper ratio.



Now I'm way under, time to buy more!

Did they arrive today?


----------



## 1BADJAD

SeeSax said:


> Now I'm way under, time to buy more!
> 
> Did they arrive today?


Yep...wife stayed home to receive it for me.  She then promptly set it on the steps and went upstairs leaving my dog to chew through the package.  Fortunately (according to her), he only damaged the outer box, and the cables are intact.  WHEW!!!


----------



## 1BADJAD

SeeSax said:


> Now I'm way under, time to buy more!
> 
> Did they arrive today?


I see the EA Horus 8 wire in your future.  Oh....can I borrow it?


----------



## vilhelm44

Received the Oslo cable yesterday. It's one of the most well made I've had to date and so lovely to look at, it's soft with next to no microphonics plus the awsome plug is indeed....awsome! It's very well made and sturdy.

It pairs so well with the A12t and can confirm the 2 pin connectors fit with no issues. Everything sounds nicely balanced using the M15 module, the bass has a velvety analogue sound with great texture. Mids are present with more of an emotional tilt, it's certainly brought them alive. Highs are nicely articulated with enough air to go around. The soundstage is big as well, sounds very grand and gives everything a nice breathing space. I know this isn't exactly a cheap cable but nice to know you don't have to spend 2-3 times more to fine tune monitors to get this wonderful sound.


----------



## audio123 (Mar 27, 2019)

My take on the Plussound Exo Tri-Silver. Can't go wrong with the Tri-Silver if you want an incisive bass expression, forward midrange and engaging treble!
Enjoy & Happy Listening, as always!


----------



## Reebonz

From Right Shop Audio:





New PW Audio cable "Satan" coming soon. No details and price yet.

Looks like a perfect color combination with the Noble Khan!


----------



## crabdog

My thoughts on the BM-3 cable from Hong Kong manufacturer Braid Magic Audio. Enjoy.
https://primeaudio.org/braid-magic-bm-3-review-glamorous/


----------



## warriorpoet

Any impressions of the Penon Neo/ Leo? I know they're under the generally accepted "high end" threshold, but they're also well over the "cheap" threshold. 

I can only find one review of the Neo, and none of the Leo.


----------



## IgeNeLL (Mar 30, 2019)

Does any one get familiar with this kind of cable 
https://flic.kr/s/aHskQ7LuTV


----------



## Pepito

I've got a set of 1960's on my Legend X's, both sold to me by a head-fier on here... but now the 1950's intrigues me. Any thoughts on the two for the Legend X's?


----------



## ezekiel77 (Mar 31, 2019)

Hi guys, please enjoy my review of the Effect Audio Leonidas II, one of the best cables I've heard.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/21846/


----------



## pithyginger63

Are there any cables that really smooth over the region from 2k to 5k but is slightly emphasized above 6k? this is really dumb, I know


----------



## twister6

pithyginger63 said:


> Are there any cables that really smooth over the region from 2k to 5k but is slightly emphasized above 6k? this is really dumb, I know



When I run my fingers over these cables, they feel very smooth over the entire region 

But seriously, you know what I'm gonna say, man.  Pick the right IEM with a signature of your preference, then choose the cable to fine tune it.  I'm a big cable believer and user, but don't expect a drastic EQ adjustment beyond baseline signature of your IEM.


----------



## pithyginger63

twister6 said:


> When I run my fingers over these cables, they feel very smooth over the entire region
> 
> But seriously, you know what I'm gonna say, man.  Pick the right IEM with a signature of your preference, then choose the cable to fine tune it.  I'm a big cable believer and user, but don't expect a drastic EQ adjustment beyond baseline signature of your IEM.


yes sir, I know that now sir, this was the result of blind buying and then wishing I had another iem, specifically the ve8


----------



## audio123

My take on the Han Sound Venom. Precise bass expression, focused midrange imbued with a tinge of warmth and smooth yet detailed treble. Excellent resolution & black background.
Enjoy & Happy Listening, as always!


----------



## aaf evo

Pepito said:


> I've got a set of 1960's on my Legend X's, both sold to me by a head-fier on here... but now the 1950's intrigues me. Any thoughts on the two for the Legend X's?



I much preferred the 1950s for the LX. Tames the bass slightly, opens up the mids and highs and increases resolution.


----------



## kubig123

aaf evo said:


> I much preferred the 1950s for the LX. Tames the bass slightly, opens up the mids and highs and increases resolution.


I agree, the 1950 and the LX pair very well, but i would think twice, with other earphones (Phantom and CA Equinox) i didn't enjoy the cable.
I wrote my brief impression regarding this cable (compared to the 1980 and 9160) on a different thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...ing-october-2018.889794/page-10#post-14781218


----------



## Pepito (Apr 1, 2019)

aaf evo said:


> I much preferred the 1950s for the LX. Tames the bass slightly, opens up the mids and highs and increases resolution.





kubig123 said:


> I agree, the 1950 and the LX pair very well, but i would think twice, with other earphones (Phantom and CA Equinox) i didn't enjoy the cable.
> I wrote my brief impression regarding this cable (compared to the 1980 and 9160) on a different thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...ing-october-2018.889794/page-10#post-14781218



Thank you very much! Decisions decisions...

I love everything about the 1960's, except for maybe a tad too much bass. Your thoughts on the 1950 do seem to match the LX very well, as well as other recommendations. @aaf evo has graciously put up his 1950's FS again... Why head-fi, why?!


----------



## RA66

I have a black dragon cable sitting around. Any idea's for headphones that it would pair well with? Don't have any 2 pin connectors just 4 pins.


----------



## SLC1966




----------



## galacticsoap (Apr 3, 2019)

Hi Everyone - Looking for some guidance re: a cable upgrade for my U18T which I pair with an AK SE100. I listen to predominantly electronica via this rig. I absolutely love the sound I'm experiencing, but as is the way, I'm looking for more:

-Top end extension and sparkle without tipping over into sibilance
-Improved low end definition, extension and slam
-Maintain the level of PRaT I love some much about the U18T

What I'm not looking for:

-Warmth and/or a rolled off top-end
-bloated and/or heavy handed bass

I'd like to keep things sensible budget wise, but happy to consider all recommendations. At the moment I'm leaning towards Thor II as by all accounts it's EA's most visceral and dynamic cable.

Thanks in advance for your help!


----------



## SeeSax

@galacticsoap I've only had the U18t for a couple days, but my gut feeling is that based on your description the Thor II might be a little too smooth for you. It's not rolled off treble per se, but I wouldn't call it a sparkly cable and it does make the highs very smooth and relaxed. It's not your prototypical silver cable. The Dita Oslo cable, while slightly enhanced in the lower registers, is fairly neutral and expands the soundstage while giving more bite to the whole range. Twister6 did a great write up of is and I think he tried it on his A18. Other than that, the Leo II or Cleopatra might be more up your alley of preferred sound, though they're more expensive. If you're trying to stay around the $200-300 range, I think the best option is the Triton8 from Triton Audio Cables. It's a hybrid 8-wire that prioritizes clarity, detail and extension. It won't change the sound signature of the IEM too much, but will give it a breath of fresh air. 

Happy hunting and good luck!

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Everyone - Looking for some guidance re: a cable upgrade for my U18T which I pair with an AK SE100. I listen to predominantly electronica via this rig. I absolutely love the sound I'm experiencing, but as is the way, I'm looking for more:
> 
> -Top end extension and sparkle without tipping over into sibilance
> -Improved low end definition, extension and slam
> ...



I think PlusSound's Exo Silver + Gold is a great option for you.


----------



## Barra

Just posted a Legend X review. This is definitely my most used CIEM right now and the king of EDM. I found that my initial impressions were way off and it took time for the burn-in effect to work its way through which is something I don't usually consider. In fact, I almost made the grand mistake at RMAF last year to decide against the X after a short audition in favor of the Phantom thinking the X was not great at scaling down for iPhone usage or any other on the go setup. Boy was I wrong - glad I stayed the course. This X rocks.

However, the reason I am posting it here is that the PWAudio 1950 paired with the X takes it to a whole new level. Also reviewed the pairings with the rest of the PWAudio 1900 lineup.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/empire-ears-legend-x.22927/reviews#review-21860


----------



## Pepito

Barra said:


> Just posted a Legend X review. This is definitely my most used CIEM right now and the king of EDM. I found that my initial impressions were way off and it took time for the burn-in effect to work its way through which is something I don't usually consider. In fact, I almost made the grand mistake at RMAF last year to decide against the X after a short audition in favor of the Phantom thinking the X was not great at scaling down for iPhone usage or any other on the go setup. Boy was I wrong - glad I stayed the course. This X rocks.
> 
> However, the reason I am posting it here is that the PWAudio 1950 paired with the X takes it to a whole new level. Also reviewed the pairings with the rest of the PWAudio 1900 lineup.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/empire-ears-legend-x.22927/reviews#review-21860



Y'all are really making me wanna jump on those 1950's... Ugh


----------



## NovaFlyer

Barra said:


> Just posted a Legend X review. This is definitely my most used CIEM right now and the king of EDM. I found that my initial impressions were way off and it took time for the burn-in effect to work its way through which is something I don't usually consider. In fact, I almost made the grand mistake at RMAF last year to decide against the X after a short audition in favor of the Phantom thinking the X was not great at scaling down for iPhone usage or any other on the go setup. Boy was I wrong - glad I stayed the course. This X rocks.
> 
> However, the reason I am posting it here is that the PWAudio 1950 paired with the X takes it to a whole new level. Also reviewed the pairings with the rest of the PWAudio 1900 lineup.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/empire-ears-legend-x.22927/reviews#review-21860



Great review.  I have the Phantom and the Legend X is on the buy list.  Completely agree with you overall 3 determinations on high-quality sound, multiple IEMs, and cable / source pairing.


----------



## audio123

galacticsoap said:


> Hi Everyone - Looking for some guidance re: a cable upgrade for my U18T which I pair with an AK SE100. I listen to predominantly electronica via this rig. I absolutely love the sound I'm experiencing, but as is the way, I'm looking for more:
> 
> -Top end extension and sparkle without tipping over into sibilance
> -Improved low end definition, extension and slam
> ...


I would recommend the Plussound Tri-Silver!


----------



## KimChee

SLC1966 said:


>



What cable is that?


----------



## SLC1966 (Apr 7, 2019)

KimChee said:


> What cable is that?


EA Thor/Leo Bespoke.  I think it is a very rare cable. I bought a used Maestro V2 just because the cable was part of the deal.  Turns out I also thouroughly enjoy the Maestro V2.

With my limited Thor/Leo experience so far it seems on the neutral side and adds a ton of space and detail.  It does not color the iem it is partnered with but improves the good qualities of it.


----------



## Wyville (Aug 19, 2019)

.


----------



## IgeNeLL




----------



## EagleWings

Hi guys, here is my review of the Dita Oslo cable:

https://everydaylistening.net/2019/04/05/dita-audio-oslo-cable/


----------



## bahamot

Nice little 4.4mm balanced to 3.5mm stereo adapter from Music Sanctuary.


----------



## Deezel177

bahamot said:


> Nice little 4.4mm balanced to 3.5mm stereo adapter from Music Sanctuary.



Awesome! The metal barrel is definitely a massive step-up.


----------



## Erfan Elahi (Apr 13, 2019)

Hi, this is may be a silly question, and iem cable related general. What is the difference between native balanced cable and standard? So far what I have understood, normally any IEM upgrade cables are sold as 3.5mm by default and they are not 'balanced' cable. Is it okay to change the plug to a 4.4mm or 2.5mm? That way I can convert a standard cable into a native balanced?


----------



## Deezel177

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hi, this is may be a silly question, and iem cable related general. What is the difference between native balanced cable and standard? So far what I have understood, normally any IEM upgrade cables are sold as 3.5mm by default and they are not 'balanced' cable. Is it okay to change the plug to a 4.4mm or 2.5mm? That way I can convert a standard cable into a native balanced?



A balanced connection means each channel (left and right) has their own ground line. A single-ended connection (i.e. the 3.5mm standard that's the most common in the world) has a left channel, a right channel and a shared ground for both. That's 3 poles, so a single-ended cable requires 3 wires.  A balanced connection will have a left channel, a left ground, a right channel and a right ground - 4 poles, 4 wires. So, if your single-ended stock cable has 4 available wires, then it can be reterminated into a balanced connection. But, if your stock cable only has 3 available wires, then it cannot be converted to balanced.


----------



## aaf evo

Any SPC cable recommendations? I like the cable that comes with the A18t sound but I’d like to get a more ergonomic/premium cable to go with them. I sold me beloved 1950s as I’m looking to scale back a little.


----------



## Pepito (Apr 15, 2019)

aaf evo said:


> Any SPC cable recommendations? I like the cable that comes with the A18t sound but I’d like to get a more ergonomic/premium cable to go with them. I sold me beloved 1950s as I’m looking to scale back a little.



Thanks @aaf evo 

Patiently waiting to see how the 1950's compares to the 1960's 2-wire on the Legend X.

PlusSound makes a great set of cables, some of the most ergonomic cables i've used for the thickness of their cables. Very supple.

I've only heard the Tri-Copper from them. Compared to the 1960's: better high-end extension, brings out the mids a bit more as the decay/sustain/release/bloominess of the bass is tamed a little bit. A really fun, but more "aggressive" cable for the Legend X pair-up. Soundstage width and depth take a hit though, and therefore imaging/separation is a step behind the 1960's. Prefer the tri-copper right now as it is less fatiguing... that'll change when the 1950's gets here.


----------



## Wyville

aaf evo said:


> Any SPC cable recommendations? I like the cable that comes with the A18t sound but I’d like to get a more ergonomic/premium cable to go with them. I sold me beloved 1950s as I’m looking to scale back a little.


Same here, I can highly recommend PlusSound for their ergonomics and they have SPC as an option if you are looking specifically for that. The Exo series (4-wire) is very comfortable and the new parts that PlusSound recently released are looking very good. For the ultimate in ergonomics, I can highly recommend the X-series (2-wire). I just got in the GPC X-Series and it is a such a lovely cable, pairs amazingly well with FIBAE black (haven't yet tried other pairings). I think @PinkyPowers uses the X-Series GPC a lot as well.


----------



## PinkyPowers

That is still a great cable, though I don't use it as often as I used to. So many great cables. But if lightweight ergonomics is a top priority, the X-Series is hard to beat.


----------



## KimChee

Plussound Audio X8 Silver/Gold Cable


----------



## mangothehuman

Does anyone have any recommendations for 2-pin cables with a microphone? I currently am running the Noble x MassDrop IEMs and have a pre-order for the IMR R2 Aten. I bought the Noble Audio cable with a mic, but for some reason, it's incompatible for my Samsung S10+ ("I’ve heard that the mic cable is incompatible with the newer Samsung phones. Apparently it is not compatible with the new Sony phones as well. I don’t know of a fix, as apparently it is just a change of technology." - Jim at Noble). The Null Audio Lune Series MKV looks decent, but if anyone has any recommendations, that would be appreciated!


----------



## SeeSax

mangothehuman said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for 2-pin cables with a microphone? I currently am running the Noble x MassDrop IEMs and have a pre-order for the IMR R2 Aten. I bought the Noble Audio cable with a mic, but for some reason, it's incompatible for my Samsung S10+ ("I’ve heard that the mic cable is incompatible with the newer Samsung phones. Apparently it is not compatible with the new Sony phones as well. I don’t know of a fix, as apparently it is just a change of technology." - Jim at Noble). The Null Audio Lune Series MKV looks decent, but if anyone has any recommendations, that would be appreciated!



I use that Lune cable as my mobile phone "upgrade" cable. It's attached to my SE846 and is very well-built. I will say, however, that the silver is turning a very slight hue of green similar to how copper does. I guess that means it's silver-plated copper, or something, I don't know. Doesn't affect anything, but it is there and visible. Maybe I should have just gone with the full sleeve option since then I wouldn't notice it 

-Collin-


----------



## mangothehuman

SeeSax said:


> I use that Lune cable as my mobile phone "upgrade" cable. It's attached to my SE846 and is very well-built. I will say, however, that the silver is turning a very slight hue of green similar to how copper does. I guess that means it's silver-plated copper, or something, I don't know. Doesn't affect anything, but it is there and visible. Maybe I should have just gone with the full sleeve option since then I wouldn't notice it
> 
> -Collin-



Do you know if it's compatible with Samsung S10s?


----------



## SeeSax

No I don't, just fire them off an email or Facebook message and ask. They reply immediately on most occasions. 

-Collin-


----------



## freesole

So I'm just getting into the world of IEM's and bought the Jomo Flamenco 2018 universals. It comes stock with the EA Aries II cable but I am interested to see if another cable would bring out more from the Flamenco's (which already sound amazing). What would you recommend? I listen mostly to Jazz/Classical and Vocal centric music. 

Would the Rhapsodia Copper Wizard MkII be a good match? There seems to be some recommendations for Plussound and EA higher end silver cables here as well. I am getting some headphone cables from Norne as well and I noticed that they do make a silver IEM cable as well.


----------



## Deezel177

freesole said:


> So I'm just getting into the world of IEM's and bought the Jomo Flamenco 2018 universals. It comes stock with the EA Aries II cable but I am interested to see if another cable would bring out more from the Flamenco's (which already sound amazing). What would you recommend? I listen mostly to Jazz/Classical and Vocal centric music.
> 
> Would the Rhapsodia Copper Wizard MkII be a good match? There seems to be some recommendations for Plussound and EA higher end silver cables here as well. I am getting some headphone cables from Norne as well and I noticed that they do make a silver IEM cable as well.



Are there any particular tonal shifts you wanna bring to them? More clarity? More brightness? More warmth? More vocal presence? That should help narrow down your options.


----------



## Knightsfan11

While I have been using IEM's for years now (owned a pair of Shure 425's for 6 years), never looked into the cable side of things. I've recently started using a pair of Westone W30 earphones & love them, but am interested in getting a new cable for them. 

Recommendations please?


----------



## twister6

Knightsfan11 said:


> While I have been using IEM's for years now (owned a pair of Shure 425's for 6 years), never looked into the cable side of things. I've recently started using a pair of Westone W30 earphones & love them, but am interested in getting a new cable for them.
> 
> Recommendations please?



I personally found Westone IEMs to pair up great with Linum SuperBaX cable.  I mean, most of my cables are 2pin, so can't test everything with Westones, but SuperBaX does the job refining the sound and very comfortable to wear.  Ken's ALO Ref8 also pairs up great with Westone, thus used as stock with W80 and ES80, but Ref8 is rather microphonic and has a memory effect/stiff.


----------



## twister6

Btw, saw today on FB that Musicteck announced they will be carrying the full line up of PWA cables in addition to Effect Audio.


----------



## freesole

Deezel177 said:


> Are there any particular tonal shifts you wanna bring to them? More clarity? More brightness? More warmth? More vocal presence? That should help narrow down your options.



I think I'd like it to have a bit more clarity and even more details. Reign the midrange back a bit I think. It sounds forward to me but my reference point are headphones such as the Focal Clear which isn't a fair comparison by any means. Anyway, any cable recommendations would be appreciated!


----------



## Deezel177

freesole said:


> I think I'd like it to have a bit more clarity and even more details. Reign the midrange back a bit I think. It sounds forward to me but my reference point are headphones such as the Focal Clear which isn't a fair comparison by any means. Anyway, any cable recommendations would be appreciated!



I'd probably recommend PlusSound's Exo Silver + Gold. It's my go-to recommendation for added clarity and detail.


----------



## mrgray

i apologise if these comments are intrusively out of context but  if this isn't the right place what is?  also this is long.

i am aware that bias exists and me saying it exists does not save me from my own bias.  that said i am going to try to give some thoughts on difference between the SIlverfi r4 (3.5 mm) and PW1950s (3.5 mm) on Audio64 U18T with WM1Z.  i'm going to try to stick to impressions.  i'm an engineer but like a flood engineer.  i don't know much about sound waves etc.

i'm listening to EDM (black diamond buraka som sistema).

pw 1950s is so loud!   on the PW1950s it feels like you are at the front row and the music is being made in the space you occupy or just in front of you.  the pw 1950s doesn't have enormous depth of stage or it somehow just pulls each sound forward.  all sounds at same volume and pushed forward.  i tend to run volume lower because of this.  like otherwise it can be a bit "much".  

the r4 is alot quieter.  i have to turn the player up about ten whole increments.  now it is loud but not all of it all of the time.  just bits (like cool bits, like the drums).  the band has moved back about 100 metres!  now instead of it happening like in front of my face it feels like there are bits closer and bits further away.  but none of it is as "close" as it was on the PW.  i can hear different bits of a song simultaneously.  they are different in volume.  they are located in different spaces.  the space in which the sounds sit is stable and precise but its made out of wood that may or may not last until next year. (my theory with SIlverfi is that the metal that forms the wires is brittle and in fact "disconnected" at numerous points (micro-tears).  Impurities and these micro breakages mean that alot happens as that signal travels.  Somehow spikey sound stuff gets filtered out.  I will call them transients but i don't know if that is the right word.  all of the above is in all likelihood quite false.  Maybe the maker will come on and tell us how he does it?

OK now impressions as i listen to the "hit" off that record "Kalemba" track 4.  I listen to R4, then PW, then R4 again. 

R4 - Volume 76
The bounce sound is very 3d.  She's talking/rapping and then there is this build and this drum over there and everything is great and resolved and separate.   Very enjoyable to listen to.  Rap is front and centre.  Bounce is central but back.  Can hear multiple layers of song very clearly.  Treble is not shrill at all.  No sibilance at all on this cable.  No chance even.  One of the things I love about it.  No pain that's for sure even though drums are kicking.  Can feel bass at song end.  Light taps an extraordinary contra-point in my ears spatially (so a bass i can feel plus discrete little taps at back of my head simultaneously, two totally different song parts equally and perfectly rendered).

PW 1950s - Volume 76
Immediately sounds so engaging and slick and exciting.  What was i complaining about?  (then the drums start).  Big and loud.  Big.  Maybe bigger in the lateral plane.  But again the depth thing.  not as 3d.  black is amazing.  probably better than r4.  pw 1950s is not happening in a wood building.  its a rave on basalt rock  with volcanic glass and onyx everywhere.  the song is her voice and a drum.  can't hear whole other background layers i could with r4.

Re-listen to R4.  Again I notice I'm hearing more of background stuff.  PW in your face with the big stuff.  Very different.  PW 1950s is seductive but actually light on detail relatively speaking.  R4 is way more reference i would have thought.  The song is the rapper and a multitude of effects and percussion.  On PW it was a rapper and some very loud drums. 

Summary - when the PW listening sample ends I want it end.  I can find the PW vaguely claustrophobic.  But to qualify that, usually only with extended listening times.  The PW sounds so slick and beautiful that i am absolutely charmed by it and my other listening gear when i put it on at the end of the working day (or at the start) for my commute (my most common usage besides home listening sessions etc).  Also I might have the M20 in the U18T and perhaps that is the issue for the PW (too much bass).  But i doubt it.

I have now finished my "test" and besides the fact that cable stiffness pushes them out of my ear occasionally (customs with R4 might be the dream?) I will stick with the R4 as i try and listen and write a report for work.  because i hear so much detail and so much beautiful music thru this incredible cable.

i started this incredibly rewarding pursuit (with IEMs) around September of 2018.  I went from stock Audio64 cable to an ALO ref8.  The difference to me was so extraordinary and the ALO alleviated the claustrophobia the stock cable induced.  I love that on this forum cable believers can believe away.  i would however love to understand how it works?  have i missed something or is it all a mystery?

also when i first got the pw1950s 2 things struck me.  the raw beauty of its sound (slick and so black and so dynamic) but also the incredible ergonomics (as opposed to alo ref8 which is an actual microphone and stiff as).  it is an amazing cable.


----------



## Knightsfan11

twister6 said:


> I personally found Westone IEMs to pair up great with Linum SuperBaX cable.  I mean, most of my cables are 2pin, so can't test everything with Westones, but SuperBaX does the job refining the sound and very comfortable to wear.  Ken's ALO Ref8 also pairs up great with Westone, thus used as stock with W80 and ES80, but Ref8 is rather microphonic and has a memory effect/stiff.



Thanks for the reply. Probably out of my price range those suggestions, I underestimated how high-end the prices were haha..
I might have a look in the low-end thread.


----------



## Pepito (Apr 29, 2019)

Shout out to @aaf evo for selling me his PW Audio 1950's, I decided to grab em after using the PW Audio 1960's two-wire. While the 1960's 2-wire is a phenomenal offering from PW, it is unfortunately too bass heavy for the Empire Ears Legend X.
I'm lucky enough to have both the PW Audio 1950's and 1960's 2-wire, so I might as well share some thoughts to all of you lovely head-fiers!  Check out my signature for the chain. As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of copper, which is why PW Audio has emptied my wallet.

PW Audio 1960's 2-wire: First thing that grabs you is the bass, holy moly if you thought the LX had bass... It's great for rock/indie/jazz/classical, not so much techno, house, trance, anything with a heavy kick/bass. The bass on the 1960's makes it fatiguing to listen to for long hours (as many mixes are several hours long). The separation and imaging is superb, better than the Ares II by a long shot and edges out the PlusSound Exo Tri-Copper. Soundstage width is much greater compared to the two previously mentioned cables, and depth increasing slightly as well. The Ares II+, while a great stock cable compared to many other offerings from other companies, is easily beat out by the PS Tri-Copper; the Ares II+ sounds congested in comparison to my other cables. The mids are not the front and centre of the 1960's. The timbre and tone that copper creates with mids is something I thoroughly enjoy and the 1960's delivers, hands-down. There is great extension in the highs, no brightness or sibilance whatsoever added. Overall, I would recommend the 1960's to anyone looking to get a TOTL copper cable and those that don't listen to 4 to the floor, bass heavy music. While very expensive at 1K usd, there are a few floating around the used market.

PW Audio 1950's 4-wire: *WOW*, was the first thing I said when I plugged these in. Thom Yorke's voice just opens up like a book. There is so much air and throatiness behind each word, it's amazing. The LX pairs wonderfully well with the 1950's. I always wanted a little more bump in the upper mids due to the way that the LX is tuned. The 1950's doesn't really add anything to the overall signature of the LX, it just makes it better. The bass's ASDR is perfect. Soundstage is something PW Audio is known for and there is gobs of it here, wider and deeper than the 1960's (probably due to the impedance difference in 2 to 4 wire). Separation is better than the 1960's due to its slight bump in the upper mids giving more emphasis on the instruments in rock/indie/jazz stuff that requires more mids. The mids are where the 1950's really stand out, guitars, synths and vocals really shine now with these babies in. I haven't noticed much of a difference in the highs when compared to the 1960's. While a better cable than the 1960's (for the EE LX YMMV), it is _hella_ expensive, buying it used is the only way I could afford these and justify the high price tag. These things new cost more than a used Chord Hugo 2, I would always recommend upgrading your source over getting new cables. Hell, I would recommend buying the Uptone Iso Regen before getting new cables, garbage in = garbage out.

The PW Audio Century series is definitely one of the best set of copper cables I have personally heard, I'm not a reviewer and I live in the middle of nowhere so access to other cables is tough for me so take my words with a grain of salt regarding comparisons. However, I am a semi-pro DJ/producer that has played on the best sound system in North America, so I know a thing or two about sounds...

Anyways, The PW Audio 1950's are going to be on my Empire Ears Legend X indefinitely!


----------



## aaf evo

Pepito said:


> Shout out to @aaf evo for selling me his PW Audio 1950's, I decided to grab em after using the PW Audio 1960's two-wire. While the 1960's 2-wire is a phenomenal offering from PW, it is unfortunately too bass heavy for the Empire Ears Legend X.
> I'm lucky enough to have both the PW Audio 1950's and 1960's 2-wire, so I might as well share some thoughts to all of you lovely head-fiers!  Check out my signature for the chain. As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of copper, which is why PW Audio has emptied my wallet.
> 
> PW Audio 1960's 2-wire: First thing that grabs you is the bass, holy moly if you thought the LX had bass... It's great for rock/indie/jazz/classical, not so much techno, house, trance, anything with a heavy kick/bass. The bass on the 1960's makes it fatiguing to listen to for long hours (as many mixes are several hours long). The separation and imaging is superb, better than the Ares II by a long shot and edges out the PlusSound Exo Tri-Copper. Soundstage width is much greater compared to the two previously mentioned cables, and depth increasing slightly as well. The Ares II+, while a great stock cable compared to many other offerings from other companies, is easily beat out by the PS Tri-Copper; the Ares II+ sounds congested in comparison to my other cables. The mids are not the front and centre of the 1960's. The timbre and tone that copper creates with mids is something I thoroughly enjoy and the 1960's delivers, hands-down. There is great extension in the highs, no brightness or sibilance whatsoever added. Overall, I would recommend the 1960's to anyone looking to get a TOTL copper cable and those that don't listen to 4 to the floor, bass heavy music. While very expensive at 1K usd, there are a few floating around the used market.
> ...



Really glad youre happy with the pairing! It’s truly amazing.


----------



## dhc0329

Anyone having a good experience dealing with Music Sanctuary in terms of turn around time? 
I am not really complaining about the price of their short 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter (over $ 250) but after about month and half of wait time
my adapter's still somewhere in Germany. I hope I get the adapter this year..


----------



## twister6

dhc0329 said:


> Anyone having a good experience dealing with Music Sanctuary in terms of turn around time?
> I am not really complaining about the price of their short 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter (over $ 250) but after about month and half of wait time
> my adapter's still somewhere in Germany. I hope I get the adapter this year..



Is that a pigtail adapter with some specific wires?  $250 for 2.5mm/3.5mm is kind of high.


----------



## olddude (Apr 29, 2019)

freesole said:


> So I'm just getting into the world of IEM's and bought the Jomo Flamenco 2018 universals. It comes stock with the EA Aries II cable but I am interested to see if another cable would bring out more from the Flamenco's (which already sound amazing). What would you recommend? I listen mostly to Jazz/Classical and Vocal centric music.
> 
> Would the Rhapsodia Copper Wizard MkII be a good match? There seems to be some recommendations for Plussound and EA higher end silver cables here as well. I am getting some headphone cables from Norne as well and I noticed that they do make a silver IEM cable as well.


The Flamenco is tuned specifically to the Ares ll.  You probably want to be a bit careful what you pair it up with.  You might consider an Ares ll 8-wire, which will keep the signature pretty close, but it will have a wider spread of instruments and vocals across the soundstage (it will sound "bigger") and it adds a slight bit (to my ears) of lower end and upper end..  And the best part is that it is only $300.


----------



## dhc0329

twister6 said:


> Is that a pigtail adapter with some specific wires?  $250 for 2.5mm/3.5mm is kind of high.



Yes, it is like EA's pigtail but PW Audio version with 1960 4xwire cable.


----------



## twister6

dhc0329 said:


> Yes, it is like EA's pigtail but PW Audio version with 1960 4xwire cable.



Makes sense, EA Janus pigtail adaptors are around that price too.


----------



## 284033

twister6 said:


> Is that a pigtail adapter with some specific wires?  $250 for 2.5mm/3.5mm is kind of high.



The adaptor in question is a 1960s adaptor – it's on the higher end of our adaptor price range!



dhc0329 said:


> Anyone having a good experience dealing with Music Sanctuary in terms of turn around time?
> I am not really complaining about the price of their short 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter (over $ 250) but after about month and half of wait time
> my adapter's still somewhere in Germany. I hope I get the adapter this year..



Hi dhc0329,

We're sorry to hear that your adaptor isn't with you yet – DHL E-commerce usually takes 7-9 working days to the US, so it shouldn't be long before your adaptor reaches you.


----------



## bahamot (Apr 29, 2019)

Mine (DHC SPC) took roughly a month from SG to ID using DHL e-commerce. The adapter quality is great though, worth the wait.


----------



## 284033

Thanks everyone for the feedback – we have decided to discontinue the DHL E-commerce shipping option for the moment as they are not living up to our expectations for delivery standards. We will default back to DHL Express for all our orders as they have been speedy and reliable in our experience while we continue searching for a more reliable low cost shipping option.


----------



## Wyville (Apr 30, 2019)

Kozato said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback – we have decided to discontinue the DHL E-commerce shipping option for the moment as they are not living up to our expectations for delivery standards. We will default back to DHL Express for all our orders as they have been speedy and reliable in our experience while we continue searching for a more reliable low cost shipping option.


Apart from being pricey, I think DHL Express is pretty hard to beat. I have had several items shipped from Singapore to both the UK and now the Netherlands that were effectively next-day deliveries. My wife prefers to use them too when shipping or receiving items for her laboratory. From what I remember talking to a guy at our local DHL service point in London, DHL has special arrangements for customs that helps them speed up deliveries. I expect others have that as well, but DHL has been the fastest and most reliable in my experience. The only downside is that in the Netherlands they charge very high import fees and so anything valued above US$22 (€20) will incur a US$50 import charge.


----------



## domho7

This coming weekend effect audio having launch of wires
Cleopatra


----------



## Shivas

Hello everyone! I currently own the Vision Ears VEX1. Am thinking of pairing it with either the iBasso DX200 or the new DX220. Any recc for the cable?


----------



## KimChee

DHL worldwide is great, DHL is the US is second rate..


----------



## Wyville (Aug 19, 2019)

.


----------



## Barra

DITA OSLO and Cross Lambda US Cable Tours Starting May
Hey people, thought I would mention that I am hosting a couple of cable tours coming up in May - the DITA OSLO and a Cross Lambda tour. Anyone in the US that are interested can sign up here:

*DITA*: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...-tour-starting-may-2019.905802/#post-14929311
*Cross Lambda:* https://www.head-fi.org/threads/us-...-tour-starting-may-2019.905806/#post-14929390


----------



## Pepito (May 4, 2019)

My dream setup, Chord Hugo 2 with an Uptone ISO Regen/LPS 1.2 and Sonore DC-4 cable + Curious USB cable. Listening to the chain on a set of Empire Ears Legend X and PW Audio 1950's. Extra, super special, custom hand-built Lego stand and a Crane stand for my laptop. Running DSD512 through BitPerfect on iTunes.

It is the best sounding setup that I have owned. Resolving, transparent, and musical, it is everything I ever wanted out of a transportable rig. I don't really have that many words to say as I have been lost in the music since I've assembled everything a few days ago. I have been trying to recreate the feeling of being at (((Stereo))) in Montreal, an after-hours club that has North America's best sound system (as touted by many international artists that have played there), while at the comfort of my own desk. The club itself is the best in Canada by far as it caters to the underground techno and house that the Europeans are known for. It's really an experience that cannot be described with words and one that needs to be experienced for themselves. Anyways, enjoy the pics and music! I threw in a mix by Pan-Pot @ Stereo from 2013, it's a 6 hour mix and I was there for 4 of it, this rig brings me right back to that dance floor and disco ball.

PS. Also biggest disco ball in NA


----------



## KimChee (May 7, 2019)

I’ve just done some critical listening with my Plussound Audio X8 Silver/Gold cable, and it’s easily my favorite cable of all time.  It has a huge amount of details and dynamics.  Best clean and enjoyable sound, bold, dynamic with great bass and airy extended treble on my Roxanne.  Great resolution and edge, huge soundstage and a big textured sound which really matches well with my setup.  My portable setup now reminds me of a desktop rig.


----------



## mvvRAZ

I'm a huge fan of the more colourful cables (I own the Muse MKII, the Labkable Violet etc) and really enjoy when a cable both sounds good, and looks unique/different from the standard silver/copper or silver+copper. Do you have any suggestions for interesting cables, I'd be especially interested in something green? 

Thanks!


----------



## Wyville

mvvRAZ said:


> I'm a huge fan of the more colourful cables (I own the Muse MKII, the Labkable Violet etc) and really enjoy when a cable both sounds good, and looks unique/different from the standard silver/copper or silver+copper. Do you have any suggestions for interesting cables, I'd be especially interested in something green?
> 
> Thanks!


The PlusSound Poetic Series sounds like just the ticket. That series offers a huge selection of customisation options, including 9 different materials for the conductor. Green should be an option, but I can't find it in the sleeving options at the moment, so you might need to check with Christian / @PLUSSOUND to be sure. It used to be available. Either mixed with another colour...
 
Or full on green...
 
More examples here.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wyville said:


> The PlusSound Poetic Series sounds like just the ticket. That series offers a huge selection of customisation options, including 9 different materials for the conductor. Green should be an option, but I can't find it in the sleeving options at the moment, so you might need to check with Christian / @PLUSSOUND to be sure. It used to be available. Either mixed with another colour...
> 
> Or full on green...
> 
> More examples here.



Lawd almighty I came here looking for a cable I left with a boner


----------



## SeeSax

mvvRAZ said:


> I'm a huge fan of the more colourful cables (I own the Muse MKII, the Labkable Violet etc) and really enjoy when a cable both sounds good, and looks unique/different from the standard silver/copper or silver+copper. Do you have any suggestions for interesting cables, I'd be especially interested in something green?
> 
> Thanks!



Rhapsodio Golden! Looks unique, sounds unique.

@SLC1966 can you share a photo? 

-Collin-


----------



## mvvRAZ

SeeSax said:


> Rhapsodio Golden! Looks unique, sounds unique.
> 
> @SLC1966 can you share a photo?
> 
> -Collin-


Wooooah that's shiny, love it haha. I think posting on this thread was a mistake, y'all bouta flush my bank account


----------



## SLC1966

SeeSax said:


> Rhapsodio Golden! Looks unique, sounds unique.
> 
> @SLC1966 can you share a photo?
> 
> -Collin-


@mvvRAZ  here is the review of the Golden V2 that Nic did:  https://headfonics.com/2016/06/the-golden-iem-cable-by-rhapsodio/

Mine is with David at Triton Audio converting it from 2 pin to MMCX to use with my NCM Bella V2 so I cannot send a picture.

Warm but detailed.  The most enjoyable part of the cable is that it creates a VERY unique warmness to the sound.  It is like a halo or glow added to the instruments.  A more technical term than "halo" or "glow" is just to say that the timbre with Golden is outstanding!   Not distorted.  Ergonomics are horrible.  It is like having an uncooperative snake attached to your IEM.  But worth it   I always need a cigar and a nap after Golden V2 time.

I am not sure if the current Rhapsodio Golden is the same as the Golden V2 which I have and which Nic reviewed.


----------



## mvvRAZ

SLC1966 said:


> @mvvRAZ  here is the review of the Golden V2 that Nic did:  https://headfonics.com/2016/06/the-golden-iem-cable-by-rhapsodio/
> 
> Mine is with David at Triton Audio converting it from 2 pin to MMCX to use with my NCM Bella V2 so I cannot send a picture.
> 
> ...


I’ve got a pure silver from Lavricables that has exactly those ergonomics haha... only usable at home on my desk, forget about taking it outside


----------



## junix

I'm in Hong Kong for a few days, and this happened today..



What a cable, excellent value for money!
Pairing it with my U18t and SP1000Cu, will report back after some mental/real "burn in".


----------



## aaf evo

junix said:


> I'm in Hong Kong for a few days, and this happened today..
> 
> 
> What a cable, excellent value for money!
> Pairing it with my U18t and SP1000Cu, will report back after some mental/real "burn in".



I’m also using the Oslo with my A18t. It is truly an amazing cable.


----------



## lithiumnk (May 23, 2019)

Dita Audio OSLO iem cable.
OSLO (Oil-Soaked Long-Crystal Oxygen-Free)

Brief Impressions:
OSLO is a pure copper cable which is quite different from the typical Cooper cables available in the market.

Ergonomics/Fit:
Its a tube based cable which means the copper wires are enclosed in a tube. Its super comfortable & soft over the ears & has no memory.

Bass:
Oslo has a very good mid bass punch & extended sub bass rumble. Bass is very detailed & still retains enough quantity to satisfy bass lovers. The bass slam & dynamics are great.

Mids:
The lower mids are full, bodied & extend down very nicely. Electric guitars, cellos, male voice etc sounds fabulous. The upper mids are slightly pulled back. Female vocals are enjoyable tho. The micro dynamics & transparency takes a little hit here but its acceptable. The instrument timbre & overall tonality is well preserved & sounds more analogue like as compared to other SPC.

Treble
The trebles are detailed, have good extension & are slightly laid-back but never truncated. The notes have nice sparkle, transients are little rounded & never sibilant. There is no loss of detail & long term listening fatigue.

Soundstage & Imaging
Oslo has a wide & deep soundstage. Its holographic & instruments are very accurately placed in the soundstage. This is particularly helpful in a busy tracks. Despite a wide SS notes lack airy character but its still very good as compared other pure OFC cables. The background is pitch black.

"Awesome Plug":
OSLO comes with awesome plug. The interchangeable 2.5,3.5,4.4mm plugs is very useful. There is no need of adapter (ultrashort/pigtails). These plugs are included with the cable.

Summary: Oslo is a musical, detailed copper cable, very well priced & best paired with neutral/aggresive iems.

A big thanks to @EagleWings  for loaning this cable.

The paring with Hyla TE5T & SP1000cu is awesome. Now, I have to get one.


----------



## Wyville

A double bill from me today with the @PLUSSOUND X-Series Gold Plated Copper and Exo Gold Plated Silver.

X-Series GPC review here


Exo GPS review here


----------



## Mikooki

Any decent colorful 2-pin cables under $200? Labkable's blue horizon would be my end game.


----------



## crabdog

Been saving my first listen for the weekend. Almost there!


----------



## bahamot

Got a delivery of nice little 2.5mm balanced to 4.4mm balanced adapter.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Mikooki said:


> Any decent colorful 2-pin cables under $200? Labkable's blue horizon would be my end game.


Han Sound Muse II


----------



## aaf evo

Been using my DITA OSLO for a short while now with my A18t and SP1000 Gold. Very nice cable, I really have no complaints about it although I feel compared to my 1950s it doesn’t sound a little veiled (obviously these are also difference price bracket cables too).

Makes me tempted to try something a bit more revealing.


----------



## twister6

aaf evo said:


> Been using my DITA OSLO for a short while now with my A18t and SP1000 Gold. Very nice cable, I really have no complaints about it although I feel compared to my 1950s it doesn’t sound a little veiled (obviously these are also difference price bracket cables too).
> 
> Makes me tempted to try something a bit more revealing.



Oslo is a warmer cable, with a more musical tonality rather than revealing. Plus, SPKM Gold has a fuller body sound which gonna take away some transparency.


----------



## aaf evo

twister6 said:


> Oslo is a warmer cable, with a more musical tonality rather than revealing. Plus, SPKM Gold has a fuller body sound which gonna take away some transparency.



Yeah i kinda figured these two wouldn’t be that good of a pairing before I even got the OSLO tbh, but I don’t plan on keeping my Gold for much longer anyways with the SP2000 on the horizon, also tempted by the DX220.


----------



## lithiumnk

aaf evo said:


> Been using my DITA OSLO for a short while now with my A18t and SP1000 Gold. Very nice cable, I really have no complaints about it although I feel compared to my 1950s it doesn’t sound a little veiled (obviously these are also difference price bracket cables too).
> 
> Makes me tempted to try something a bit more revealing.


Have you tried contact enhancer?
Its supposed to open up upper mids and treble and add more transparency.


----------



## aaf evo

lithiumnk said:


> Have you tried contact enhancer?
> Its supposed to open up upper mids and treble and add more transparency.



I honestly haven’t even touched it lol. Not really a fan of that idea, I just want to plug and play.


----------



## quodjo105

Is there a copper cable that is an upgrade over ares ii 8 wire which will also be a good match for EE phantom?.


----------



## aaf evo

quodjo105 said:


> Is there a copper cable that is an upgrade over ares ii 8 wire which will also be a good match for EE phantom?.



What’s your budget?


----------



## quodjo105

aaf evo said:


> What’s your budget?


up to $500


----------



## aaf evo

quodjo105 said:


> up to $500



If you can stretch to $600 I think the DITA OSLO is a significant step up compared to the Ares 8 wire, but from reviews I’ve read it doesn’t fit the EE sockets flush


----------



## quodjo105

aaf evo said:


> If you can stretch to $600 I think the DITA OSLO is a significant step up compared to the Ares 8 wire, but from reviews I’ve read it doesn’t fit the EE sockets flush


Right . 1960 2 wire, i know they're more expensive , but are they a good match with EE phantom ?


----------



## kubig123

quodjo105 said:


> Is there a copper cable that is an upgrade over ares ii 8 wire which will also be a good match for EE phantom?.


The PW audio Saladin pairs really well with the Phantom, it brings some sparkle to the treble, it tightens the bass and has a nice wide soundstage. The Ares 8 wire is a great cable, but I prefer it with neutral .


----------



## aaf evo

quodjo105 said:


> Right . 1960 2 wire, i know they're more expensive , but are they a good match with EE phantom ?



I haven’t heard the 2 wire. Only the 4 wire with my Legend X and I didn’t like the pairing.


----------



## quodjo105

kubig123 said:


> The PW audio Saladin pairs really well with the Phantom, it brings some sparkle to the treble, it tightens the bass and has a nice wide soundstage. The Ares 8 wire is a great cable, but I prefer it with neutral .


You're talking about saladin 8 wire right?


----------



## quodjo105

aaf evo said:


> I haven’t heard the 2 wire. Only the 4 wire with my Legend X and I didn’t like the pairing.


Alright..thanks


----------



## kubig123

quodjo105 said:


> You're talking about saladin 8 wire right?


yes, the 8 wire version.


----------



## rtjoa (May 28, 2019)

Just received two new Brimar Deep State 12 wire cables (Warm Analog and High Resolution)


----------



## dhc0329

rtjoa said:


> Just received two new Brimar Deep State 12 wire cables (Warm Analog and High Resolution)



Wow 12 Wire cable! Wouldn't that be a little too heavy on your ears? How's ergo if you don't mind me asking..


----------



## rtjoa

dhc0329 said:


> Wow 12 Wire cable! Wouldn't that be a little too heavy on your ears? How's ergo if you don't mind me asking..


The cables are very flexible and there are no ergonomics issue at all. It is better than my PW Audio no 5 8 wire.
The cable will go around ears for most iems so you don't feel the weight. It works fine with my LCDi4 as well.


----------



## dhc0329

rtjoa said:


> The cables are very flexible and there are no ergonomics issue at all. It is better than my PW Audio no 5 8 wire.
> The cable will go around ears for most iems so you don't feel the weight. It works fine with my LCDi4 as well.



Never seen 12 wire cable but looks awesome. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Wyville

dhc0329 said:


> Never seen 12 wire cable but looks awesome. Thanks for the info!


Here is another one, the SilverFi R5. Looks awesome, sounds awesome, but the ergonomics caused a crushing defeat for my cable-roller ego. Still.... I had to try.


----------



## Mikooki

mvvRAZ said:


> Han Sound Muse II


I'll put that one on my list, thank you!


----------



## Deezel177

With all the talk about _uber_ expensive cables lately, I'd like to add a little bit of contrast with my latest review: Satin Audio's Griffin and Chimera. They have two of the best price-to-performance ratios I've ever seen, and I'm extremely happy to see a new brand making waves at the entry level. Enjoy! 

*Satin Audio Griffin and Chimera - New Standards*


----------



## Kitechaser (Jun 1, 2019)

PW Audio 1960s 2 wire 4.4mm mmcx.
With RHA CL2.

Sub-bass hits hard and deep. Clean.
Mid-bass is above neutral, really works with this iem, gives the mids a thickness and a quality lesser cables lack.
Mids have incredible resolution and transparency, as far as my ears can tell, perfect timbre.
Upper mids are a bit forward, and add a jazz nightclub vibe to the music, emotional with excellent separation and resolution.
Treble is rich and extended, timbre as far as I hear it, is spot on.
Soundstage is very wide, and deep. Background is jet black, notes come out of thin air.
I am about 250 something hours in, and sound is still improving.
Sound is very smooth, zero harshness of any kind. End game cable as far as I am concerned.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> With all the talk about _uber_ expensive cables lately, I'd like to add a little bit of contrast with my latest review: Satin Audio's Griffin and Chimera. They have two of the best price-to-performance ratios I've ever seen, and I'm extremely happy to see a new brand making waves at the entry level. Enjoy!
> 
> *Satin Audio Griffin and Chimera - New Standards*


Satin audio makes some really really good cables. Still difficult to find and purchase though (unless you're prepared to fight customs )


----------



## crabdog

The BTG Starlight is really nice for a more affordable cable too:


----------



## SeeSax

I’m feeling pretty insufficient over here with all this talk of 12 wire cables. I just graduated to a 10 wire! 

 

-Collin-


----------



## SLC1966

And the most beautiful 10 wires I have ever seen! @SeeSax  are you still liking how it enhances your iems three days in?


----------



## SeeSax

SLC1966 said:


> And the most beautiful 10 wires I have ever seen! @SeeSax  are you still liking how it enhances your iems three days in?



It doesn’t enhance my IEMs, it enhances my self image! Well until the 12 wire talk that is.


----------



## SLC1966

Classic Collin! I will refrain from further enhancement talk


----------



## IgeNeLL

SeeSax said:


> I’m feeling pretty insufficient over here with all this talk of 12 wire cables. I just graduated to a 10 wire!
> 
> 
> 
> -Collin-


For 12 you should tried Brimar Deep State


----------



## audio123

My take on the Satin Sapphire. Enjoy & Happy Listening, as always!


----------



## 474194 (Jun 5, 2019)

Wyville said:


> Here is another one, the SilverFi R5. Looks awesome, sounds awesome, but the ergonomics caused a crushing defeat for my cable-roller ego. Still.... I had to try.



Fortunately the cable maker is open to new ideas (It maybe that I've establised a good relationship w/ cable maker throughout the years so not sure mods available for general public so YMMV) and a very kewl audiophile.  I have zero issues with ergonomics on my R4 and it naturally flows over the ear.  If I had to nitpick, the cable is a bit stiff on the lower end.  Not much issue with microphonics but I added a shirt clip just in case.  Once you add a point of center, microphonics get reduced to near zero.  I used the most flexible 3M heat shrink available, Eidolic 2-pin and 6.3mm Furutech for this build.

With the R4, it helps complete my dream to build the most neutral, reference transportable rig possible up to the transducer.  So a neutral, warm and even (bitting my tongue...) colored sig transducer can play nicely with a solid neutral foundation.  Hopefully, the future estat CIEMs lean towards a neutral sig.

I'm able now to control my transportable rig with a IR remote control or Apple Watch (No iPhone needed), so it's pretty much hands-free as well as RFI-free now.  Although RFI was never an issue, it's pretty much pro-actively eliminated from the equation.



 





(Should look better IRL with OLED screen)



 

 






^^ This still applies but ergos no longer an issue up top. ^^


----------



## Wyville

AC-12 said:


> Fortunately the cable maker is open to new ideas (It maybe that I've establised a good relationship w/ cable maker throughout the years so not sure mods available for general public so YMMV) and a very kewl audiophile.  I have zero issues with ergonomics on my R4 and it naturally flows over the ear.  If I had to nitpick, the cable is a bit stiff on the lower end.  Not much issue with microphonics but I added a shirt clip just in case.  Once you add a point of center, microphonics get reduced to near zero.  I used the most flexible 3M heat shrink available, Eidolic 2-pin and 6.3mm Furutech for this build.
> 
> With the R4, it helps complete my dream to build the most neutral, reference transportable rig possible up to the transducer.  So a neutral, warm and even (bitting my tongue...) colored sig transducer can play nicely with a solid neutral foundation.  Hopefully, the future estat CIEMs lean towards a neutral sig.
> 
> ...


Great to see your experiments with the new parts are working out for you!


----------



## 474194 (Jun 6, 2019)

Wyville said:


> Great to see your experiments with the new parts are working out for you!



Got lucky.  In theory it seemed work, but easy to fall flat on your face when things don't go your way.  It's not something you can google and even find in diyaudio.  I'm lazy so really didn't want to experiment, but I need usuability otherwise my system sits dormant.  It's like being attached to an umbilical cord listening only off an desktop setup and I want to be free of that.  I'm not out of the woods yet, still need to test so if everything goes well will post transportable setup in a few weeks along with the SilverFi R1.  I can finally start burning in my equipment and focus on whether to go down the rabbit hole some more with the estat CIEMs.  I almost sold out and went the headphone route, but luckily some estat CIEMs launching to put me back on track.

I may have inadvertently got caught up in a remote control rabbit hole.  This is like 90 quid off this week and considering making it my front-end for my transportable setup.  I like my basic $10 functional remote where I can feel actual button feedback, but this is tempting.  It has an API so I can hack the interface specific to my transportable needs.  Fu*k this hobby.




 

BTW, thanks for your input brainstorming on ergonomic ideas with the SilverFi.  I got lucky it worked out well with the ergos.


----------



## Caguioa

Hey guys

how much improvement would replaceing my...

stock shure 846's cables to something like...

Sony Kimber cables MUC-M12SB1 ?
I'm also interested in fiio silver cables

Looking somewhere where it actually makes a difference and can spend more if it justifies on what it does.

Looking for cables that don't get tangle up and can actually make impact how music sounds,

Also...

4.4 or 3.5 connector for cable?


----------



## pithyginger63

Caguioa said:


> Hey guys
> 
> how much improvement would replaceing my...
> 
> ...


crystal cable dream duet


----------



## Deezel177

Hey guys, here's my review of DITA Audio's wonderful OSLO cable. It's my new go-to recommendation for those looking to add a bit of warmth, body and lower-midrange texture to their IEMs without *any* roll-off, muddiness or bloat. Enjoy! 

*DITA Audio OSLO - Motown Magic*

​


----------



## Caguioa

*FIIO LC-2.5/3.5/4.4D High-Purity Pure Silver Litz MMCX Earphone Cable


Any word on these?

Planning on getting fh7 to go with these, but not sure how much difference this would be vs fh7 stock cables*


----------



## domho7

Caguioa said:


> *FIIO LC-2.5/3.5/4.4D High-Purity Pure Silver Litz MMCX Earphone Cable
> 
> 
> Any word on these?
> ...


I got a few iem cables like labkable.
I was at my local store and I tried the lc 2.5 immediately I bought it. At this price no brainer.


----------



## Caguioa

domho7 said:


> I got a few iem cables like labkable.
> I was at my local store and I tried the lc 2.5 immediately I bought it. At this price no brainer.



What makes them good?
2.5 vs 4.4?

Also how do the cables sound?


----------



## domho7

Caguioa said:


> What makes them good?
> 2.5 vs 4.4?
> 
> Also how do the cables sound?


I only tried the 2.5mm, overall improved SQ, clarity is better. Can feel bass is tighter, just my 2c some may find it different.
I am using it on FH5 and I like it.


----------



## aaf evo

Deezel177 said:


> Hey guys, here's my review of DITA Audio's wonderful OSLO cable. It's my new go-to recommendation for those looking to add a bit of warmth, body and lower-midrange texture to their IEMs without *any* roll-off, muddiness or bloat. Enjoy!
> 
> *DITA Audio OSLO - Motown Magic*
> 
> ​



Great review! It is an amazing cable. Any comparisons to the Leo 2?


----------



## Deezel177

aaf evo said:


> Great review! It is an amazing cable. Any comparisons to the Leo 2?



Thank you! I haven't compared it to the Leo II, but I'll do so when I find the time.


----------



## Caguioa

Has anyone used Custome cable for Hd800s?

1. 4pin xlr balance cable into 4.4 for my dap
I am just using balance cable from my hd800s and using a generic 4pin xlr into 6.3 cable for now..

2. 4.4 female into 6.3 male adapter to my amp, to use the cable from question1.
I am just using a generic one for now


----------



## aaf evo

Does anyone have a review/impressions on the Cleopatra Octa? I can’t seem to find one anywhere.


----------



## Hana Yu

Hello there aaf evo.
You can check out the review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/effect-audio-cleopatra.23754/reviews#review-22139
It's written and published by Wyville. 
Hope this helps.


----------



## aaf evo

Hana Yu said:


> Hello there aaf evo.
> You can check out the review here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/effect-audio-cleopatra.23754/reviews#review-22139
> It's written and published by Wyville.
> Hope this helps.



Thank you! I am looking for an Octa review though


----------



## Hana Yu

Oops...looks like I need a new pair of glasses


----------



## crabdog

Here are my thoughts on the Han Sound Audio Agni MK2. Highly recommend it if you want a silver cable that is not only highly resolving but also liquid smooth. Enjoy the music!
https://primeaudio.org/han-sound-audio-agni-mk2-review/


----------



## akb48jue

Hey Guys
Now i'm looking for a cable for my audio 64 tia trio, i prefer warm sounds. Do you guys have any recommendations?

Thanks,


----------



## aaf evo

For any future cables - should I buy them in 4.4 termination or 2.5? I feel like 4.4 is becoming more of the norm for balanced now?


----------



## Deezel177

akb48jue said:


> Hey Guys
> Now i'm looking for a cable for my audio 64 tia trio, i prefer warm sounds. Do you guys have any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,



I'd definitely recommend the DITA Audio OSLO for that.


----------



## aaf evo

Deezel177 said:


> I'd definitely recommend the DITA Audio OSLO for that.



I also happen to have mine for sale lol, @akb48jue , feel free to PM me if you are interested.


----------



## akb48jue

Deezel177 said:


> I'd definitely recommend the DITA Audio OSLO for that.


The problem is im at USA, it's hard for me to get their products


----------



## twister6

akb48jue said:


> The problem is im at USA, it's hard for me to get their products



Dita products? Musicteck is their official distributor in US.


----------



## 474194 (Jun 18, 2019)

SilverFi R1 w/ customer requested mods and round braiding.   Standard is flat braiding, but round is an option for 8 or 10 wire.  I added cable sleeves for behind the ear to keep cables clean and a shirt clip to eliminate any microphonics.  But microphonics was never an issue for I. 





My Hugo2 build:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/yet...alternative-to-2go-poly.905925/#post-15004881

BTW, end of my arc here on this thread.  Going on a 3-5 year hiatus soon as it's my reg cyclical pattern since starting this hobby in 2001.  Would go cray-cray otherwise.  Any questions, please contact Sezai (Cable Maker).  Thank you so much THREAD STARTER for the education and entertainment here...


----------



## Doctortre2481

any cable recommendation for legend x ??? ( besides effect audio )


----------



## aaf evo

Doctortre2481 said:


> any cable recommendation for legend x ??? ( besides effect audio )



Probably out of your budget but PW Audio 1950s is incredible with the Legend X, and just about any IEM for that matter, lol.


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## Doctortre2481 (Jun 18, 2019)

2,999 is a bit much for a cable thinking 1000 and under .


----------



## audio123

Doctortre2481 said:


> any cable recommendation for legend x ??? ( besides effect audio )


You can consider Han Sound Agni II or PW Loki.


----------



## Doctortre2481 (Jun 20, 2019)

thanks loki looks like a good choice. Also how heavy is there 8 wire? is it portable enough for everyday use? I currently have ares II + .Also  how's amp 9 going with legend x ?


----------



## audio123

Doctortre2481 said:


> thanks loki looks like a good choice.  how's amp 9 going with legend x ?


I have not tried this combo. AMP9 has nice textured bass. Cheers!


----------



## honeyjjack

Recently I have had the chance to listen to some highly regarded cables, han sound venom and Silverfi R2. They were spectacular with its own specialties, venom with its incredibly black blacks and r2 with its effortless naturalness. However, as these two auditions have been quite apart in time and at different environments, i was unable to do a direct comparison of the two. Does anyone own these two cables or have compared them? I am looking to pair one with my A18t. Any advice would be great. (Ill probably end up with both in the future but want to see peoples views on these two compared)


----------



## aaf evo

Which adapters are suggested to use for 2.5mm cables (convert my 2.5mm terminated cable into 3.5mm and 4.4mm) and to not alter the sound at all?


----------



## kubig123

aaf evo said:


> Which adapters are suggested to use for 2.5mm cables (convert my 2.5mm terminated cable into 3.5mm and 4.4mm) and to not alter the sound at all?


The shorter the better.

I have a couple of adapters made by music-sanctuary with the PW 1960 that are exceptionally well made.

Plussound is another option, I would suggest to go with a silver cable since it’s usually the more neutral one.


----------



## deafdoorknob

just read the most succinct Dita Oslo cable review in a japanese mag. “An audio moisturiser for iems”


----------



## Limexx

Just bought the Silverfi IEM R1 from fellow headfi-er for around 300 usd.


----------



## Wyville

deafdoorknob said:


> just read the most succinct Dita Oslo cable review in a japanese mag. “An audio moisturiser for iems”


What will their review of the contact enhancer be? "Like baby oil for your plug." 


Limexx said:


> Just bought the Silverfi IEM R1 from fellow headfi-er for around 300 usd.


Great price for such a wonderful cable! Hope you will enjoy it.


----------



## aaf evo (Jun 26, 2019)

Hmmm talk about eating your own words I suppose. It wasn’t long ago I said I’d stay away from extremely high priced cables.

I decided to join back in with a bang and to “be done” with it indefinitely.

Thanks to musicteck I picked up the PW Audio 1950s and 1960s 4 wire for my Legend X and A18t. I couldn’t be happier 

Now to just pick up some high quality adapters (for now, possible pigtails later) and enjoy.


----------



## Number9redreD

aaf evo said:


> Hmmm talk about eating your own words I suppose. It wasn’t long ago I said I’d stay away from extremely high priced cables.
> 
> I decided to join back in with a bang and to “be done” with it indefinitely.
> 
> ...


What a dreamy set-up


----------



## aaf evo

Number9redreD said:


> What a dreamy set-up



Thank you! Although I did swap the 1950s to A18t and 1960s to Legend X, all is well now!


----------



## Number9redreD

aaf evo said:


> Thank you! Although I did swap the 1950s to A18t and 1960s to Legend X, all is well now!


Question, is the 1950’s a better match for the 18 or x?


----------



## aaf evo

Number9redreD said:


> Question, is the 1950’s a better match for the 18 or x?



Too hard to answer, it works so well with both. That cable truly something else. The 1960s for sure imo match better with the Legend X, on the A18t treble can be borderline harsh.


----------



## mrgray

i run u18t's with 1950 cable and wanted to chime in with what an incredible setup it is for commuting.  the 1950 cable is astonishing because it makes things sound so good.  feel very lucky to have picked one up locally here in sydney second hand because i don't know if i could buy it retail. i mean its is very expensive (around $3500 AUD landed if you had to pay the 10% as you should).  

i think if i did not have the 1950s i would be looking for a silverfi cable that i could make the commute work with, maybe r1 or something.  very jellie of the dude who picked one up for 300 USD.

1950 very much good for commute i think because it brings sound to the fore alot.  it's not just quietly bleeping in the corner waiting to see if you care or not.  its painting it onto your eyeballs type thing and that works on the train etc.


----------



## Number9redreD

mrgray said:


> i run u18t's with 1950 cable and wanted to chime in with what an incredible setup it is for commuting.  the 1950 cable is astonishing because it makes things sound so good.  feel very lucky to have picked one up locally here in sydney second hand because i don't know if i could buy it retail. i mean its is very expensive (around $3500 AUD landed if you had to pay the 10% as you should).
> 
> i think if i did not have the 1950s i would be looking for a silverfi cable that i could make the commute work with, maybe r1 or something.  very jellie of the dude who picked one up for 300 USD.
> 
> 1950 very much good for commute i think because it brings sound to the fore alot.  it's not just quietly bleeping in the corner waiting to see if you care or not.  its painting it onto your eyeballs type thing and that works on the train etc.


Thanks for the insight. Im trying to build the ultimate rig so i can be done with this expensive hobby, but im having some bad luck. Im seriously considering just selling my fourtes and getting U/A18t’s + 1950’s or R4.


----------



## aaf evo

Number9redreD said:


> Thanks for the insight. Im trying to build the ultimate rig so i can be done with this expensive hobby, but im having some bad luck. Im seriously considering just selling my fourtes and getting U/A18t’s + 1950’s or R4.



A18t... so special.


----------



## mrgray

the r4 is amazing but in my experience is not ok for commuting (although i note someone else makes it work).  r4 magic is in the extraordinary detail and naturalness of presentation which i do think you need some peace and quiet to really enjoy.  hence my love for the in face presentation of 1950.

also what could possibly be wrong with the fourte?  i must admit i often think of heading that way.


----------



## Number9redreD

mrgray said:


> the r4 is amazing but in my experience is not ok for commuting (although i note someone else makes it work).  r4 magic is in the extraordinary detail and naturalness of presentation which i do think you need some peace and quiet to really enjoy.  hence my love for the in face presentation of 1950.
> 
> also what could possibly be wrong with the fourte?  i must admit i often think of heading that way.


Whats wrong? Pretty much everything. Firstly, don't mistake me saying “everything” for meaning that they’re bad iems, they’re far from it. Before buying them, i was slightly hesitant that their bass wouldn't be enough for me due to some of the reviews i had been reading. Whilst im by no means a bass-head, i definitely enjoy it’s company. Thankfully, when i first tried them out, i was relieved to know that they we anything but lacking.

The main problem i have is in how good they are in general. I received them on Wednesday and have been listening for around 10hrs a day, and yet, i have yet to notice anything that makes me go, “these are great”. Just for reference, before the fourtes, my one and only iems (that i had been daily driving for the past 1.5 years) were the ibasso iT01’s. After putting these on i was severely underwhelmed. My first thought was “this is what 2k has bought you”?

Obviously the fourtes were better than the iT01’s, but the difference simply hasn't been good enough for me to justify the price. The only hope i have left is for when i receive my iem-x next week. Now, i know that cables are meant to be the icing on the cake, instead of the cake itself, but maybe, just maybe, they can do something special.


----------



## pithyginger63

Number9redreD said:


> Whats wrong? Pretty much everything. Firstly, don't mistake me saying “everything” for meaning that they’re bad iems, they’re far from it. Before buying them, i was slightly hesitant that their bass wouldn't be enough for me due to some of the reviews i had been reading. Whilst im by no means a bass-head, i definitely enjoy it’s company. Thankfully, when i first tried them out, i was relieved to know that they we anything but lacking.
> 
> The main problem i have is in how good they are in general. I received them on Wednesday and have been listening for around 10hrs a day, and yet, i have yet to notice anything that makes me go, “these are great”. Just for reference, before the fourtes, my one and only iems (that i had been daily driving for the past 1.5 years) were the ibasso iT01’s. After putting these on i was severely underwhelmed. My first thought was “this is what 2k has bought you”?
> 
> Obviously the fourtes were better than the iT01’s, but the difference simply hasn't been good enough for me to justify the price. The only hope i have left is for when i receive my iem-x next week. Now, i know that cables are meant to be the icing on the cake, instead of the cake itself, but maybe, just maybe, they can do something special.


you new?


----------



## Number9redreD

pithyginger63 said:


> you new?


You could say that


----------



## pithyginger63

Number9redreD said:


> You could say that


what is your prior experience with audio gear?


----------



## Number9redreD

pithyginger63 said:


> what is your prior experience with audio gear?


Like i said, im new.


----------



## mrgray

sorry if i missed it but what cable have u got the fourte's on?  either those ibasso's are amazing or your source/cable isn't letting fourte shine.  i only listened to them for a minute and i was shocked at the resolution and stage width.


----------



## aaf evo

Number9redreD said:


> Whats wrong? Pretty much everything. Firstly, don't mistake me saying “everything” for meaning that they’re bad iems, they’re far from it. Before buying them, i was slightly hesitant that their bass wouldn't be enough for me due to some of the reviews i had been reading. Whilst im by no means a bass-head, i definitely enjoy it’s company. Thankfully, when i first tried them out, i was relieved to know that they we anything but lacking.
> 
> The main problem i have is in how good they are in general. I received them on Wednesday and have been listening for around 10hrs a day, and yet, i have yet to notice anything that makes me go, “these are great”. Just for reference, before the fourtes, my one and only iems (that i had been daily driving for the past 1.5 years) were the ibasso iT01’s. After putting these on i was severely underwhelmed. My first thought was “this is what 2k has bought you”?
> 
> Obviously the fourtes were better than the iT01’s, but the difference simply hasn't been good enough for me to justify the price. The only hope i have left is for when i receive my iem-x next week. Now, i know that cables are meant to be the icing on the cake, instead of the cake itself, but maybe, just maybe, they can do something special.



Cables can make changes but it won’t make your Tia Fourte a new sounding IEM. Cable changing should only be done after you’re happy with your IEM and you want to refine it.


----------



## Number9redreD

mrgray said:


> sorry if i missed it but what cable have u got the fourte's on?  either those ibasso's are amazing or your source/cable isn't letting fourte shine.  i only listened to them for a minute and i was shocked at the resolution and stage width.


Currently i just have them on the stock one, but in a week ill have the silverfi


----------



## Number9redreD

aaf evo said:


> Cables can make changes but it won’t make your Tia Fourte a new sounding IEM. Cable changing should only be done after you’re happy with your IEM and you want to refine it.


Of course, i was never expecting it to.


----------



## Number9redreD

mrgray said:


> sorry if i missed it but what cable have u got the fourte's on?  either those ibasso's are amazing or your source/cable isn't letting fourte shine.  i only listened to them for a minute and i was shocked at the resolution and stage width.


I know that i said nothing stood out but that was a complete lie. If there is even one thing that i can say i love about these, its got to be the highs. They have just the right amount of sparkle so as not to make them fatiguing, but yet engaging in every way. Listening to tracks that have a constant use of cymbals etc in them is one of my favourite things to do.


----------



## fuhransahis

Number9redreD said:


> I know that i said nothing stood out but that was a complete lie. If there is even one thing that i can say i love about these, its got to be the highs. They have just the right amount of sparkle so as not to make them fatiguing, but yet engaging in every way. Listening to tracks that have a constant use of cymbals etc in them is one of my favourite things to do.



Part of the "problem" is that the ITO1 punches way above its price point, some prefer it to $500 IEMs and ones that are priced even higher than that. So you sort of aren't going from $100 to $2k IEMs. The Fourte also has issues of its own for many including myself where the mids seem to be sucked out, so while the experience is great overall, it sorta feels incomplete (again, to me), so it may be a matter of preference as well.

And as you'll find out, the difference in sound quality does not increase dollar per dollar, but the higher up you go in price (usually), the less of a technical improvement you'll find - above $1.5-$2k or so it'll mostly be a matter of preference (i.e. if you like a bassier sound, more neutral, detailed, airy, etc). Finding out the latter part might take time and will likely evolve.


----------



## Number9redreD

fuhransahis said:


> Part of the "problem" is that the ITO1 punches way above its price point, some prefer it to $500 IEMs and ones that are priced even higher than that. So you sort of aren't going from $100 to $2k IEMs. The Fourte also has issues of its own for many including myself where the mids seem to be sucked out, so while the experience is great overall, it sorta feels incomplete (again, to me), so it may be a matter of preference as well.
> 
> And as you'll find out, the difference in sound quality does not increase dollar per dollar, but the higher up you go in price (usually), the less of a technical improvement you'll find - above $1.5-$2k or so it'll mostly be a matter of preference (i.e. if you like a bassier sound, more neutral, detailed, airy, etc). Finding out the latter part might take time and will likely evolve.


I can see what you mean, especially with the mids. Personally though, other than what you mentioned with the mids, i cant really fault the signature. I guess i was just looking for more of an improvement, even-though i did acknowledge the price to performance increases. 

I think my best bet will just to give them more time. Right now, i really like them, just not enough.


----------



## mrgray

what cable are you using now?


----------



## Number9redreD

mrgray said:


> what cable are you using now?


Stock


----------



## fuhransahis

Number9redreD said:


> I can see what you mean, especially with the mids. Personally though, other than what you mentioned with the mids, i cant really fault the signature. I guess i was just looking for more of an improvement, even-though i did acknowledge the price to performance increases.
> 
> I think my best bet will just to give them more time. Right now, i really like them, just not enough.



Yep, not sure how long you've had them but give them about 200hrs play time before you make a decision on returning or selling them. If they have the right tuning for you, they will amaze you, and if they aren't amazing you pretty consistently, then they probably are not 100% your cup of tea. A cable isn't going to refine or change the tuning enough for you to suddenly love them, and the law of diminishing returns for ROI on cables is even more extreme than on IEMs. But as you mentioned they are great at nailing that last tweak to finalize their tuning.


----------



## Number9redreD

fuhransahis said:


> Yep, not sure how long you've had them but give them about 200hrs play time before you make a decision on returning or selling them. If they have the right tuning for you, they will amaze you, and if they aren't amazing you pretty consistently, then they probably are not 100% your cup of tea. A cable isn't going to refine or change the tuning enough for you to suddenly love them, and the law of diminishing returns for ROI on cables is even more extreme than on IEMs. But as you mentioned they are great at nailing that last tweak to finalize their tuning.


Ive only got about 20 hours on them from the past 2 days, so ill have to wait and see. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## mrgray (Jun 27, 2019)

yeah i found that the stock cable for audio64 stuff is pretty terrible.  ergo is fantastic but there is zero soundstage (everything is on top of everything else).  arguably there isn't an IEM that matters more for than the fourte, given one of its mind blowing strengths is space and sound stage etc.

also i would disagree re: declining return for cables (although i acknowledge that different people have different positions about this - for example i'm right and alot of other people are wrong).  yeah but i don't see declining return at all.  for example the alo ref 8 is around 500 AUD and it is terrible.  the 1950 is around 3500 AUD.  it is exponentially better than the ref 8.  the problem appears more to be with me running out of money for these incredible cables which utterly revolutionise IEM sound (IMHO).


----------



## nick97

I just sold my 64 audio and now I'm trying to sell the effect audio Lionheart that I had paired with it if anyone is interested! 2 pin terminated to 3.5mm psquared


----------



## pithyginger63 (Jun 28, 2019)

Number9redreD said:


> Like i said, im new.


you should give it some time. When you first listen to really high end audio gear, sometimes you can't always discern the improvements. Give it a month or two and you'll realize how much more you can hear

When I first got my customs I wasn't particularly enthused with them, but with time, I can hear that they are much better than a lot of gear in the tiers below it. The way I saw it, my ears were the limiting factor at the time, not my iems.


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> Thank you! Although I did swap the 1950s to A18t and 1960s to Legend X, all is well now!



Glad to have you back, my friend  I ended up with a 1950 cable on my U18T and it is pure heaven. With the M20 module, it's all out musicality with loads of detail. With the M15, it's precision, spacious and crazy amounts of detail. I've got the M15 in now and think I will keep it this way. With a warmer Sony source, it's as close to perfect as I've heard. I also got a 2-wire 1960 and unfortunately it is MMCX so I cannot try it on the U18T. But your assessment matches mine with the 1950. Congrats on the 4-wire by the way! 



Number9redreD said:


> Whats wrong? Pretty much everything. Firstly, don't mistake me saying “everything” for meaning that they’re bad iems, they’re far from it. Before buying them, i was slightly hesitant that their bass wouldn't be enough for me due to some of the reviews i had been reading. Whilst im by no means a bass-head, i definitely enjoy it’s company. Thankfully, when i first tried them out, i was relieved to know that they we anything but lacking.
> 
> The main problem i have is in how good they are in general. I received them on Wednesday and have been listening for around 10hrs a day, and yet, i have yet to notice anything that makes me go, “these are great”. Just for reference, before the fourtes, my one and only iems (that i had been daily driving for the past 1.5 years) were the ibasso iT01’s. After putting these on i was severely underwhelmed. My first thought was “this is what 2k has bought you”?
> 
> Obviously the fourtes were better than the iT01’s, but the difference simply hasn't been good enough for me to justify the price. The only hope i have left is for when i receive my iem-x next week. Now, i know that cables are meant to be the icing on the cake, instead of the cake itself, but maybe, just maybe, they can do something special.



You're not alone. And while I respect everyone's opinion in this thread, I'm going to dissent on the burn-in suggestion that they will somehow make you pleased after 200 hours. I have owned probably 50 IEMs and sadly, burning in never transformed them into something that they are not. Subtle changes, sure, but if you were feeling "meh" when you first listened to the Forte then you will probably feel "meh +" after 200 hours of burn-in. For what it's worth, I had the Fourte and sold them after a few weeks because they were nothing special to me. Huge soundstage, sure, but they're a few years old now and to my ears there were several other IEMs that outclassed them and with a lower price point to boot. When I got my Sony IER-Z1R, that was the nail in the coffin for the Fourte and they went up for sale the next day. 

I guess the moral of the story is that going out and buying TOTL IEMs is never a guarantee that you'll love them unless you've heard them before. I fully agree on your assessment of the Fourte. By the way, since this is a high-end cables thread, I will mention that cables can often times change the sound for the better. I roll through cables like underwear and find it one of the most fun parts of Head-Fi! So despite trying several high-end cables on my Forte, my conclusion didn't change. 

Cheers, 

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> Glad to have you back, my friend  I ended up with a 1950 cable on my U18T and it is pure heaven. With the M20 module, it's all out musicality with loads of detail. With the M15, it's precision, spacious and crazy amounts of detail. I've got the M15 in now and think I will keep it this way. With a warmer Sony source, it's as close to perfect as I've heard. I also got a 2-wire 1960 and unfortunately it is MMCX so I cannot try it on the U18T. But your assessment matches mine with the 1950. Congrats on the 4-wire by the way!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -Collin-



I’m using M20 with the 1950s since the AMP1 MK2 on DX220 is very revealing and open. It sounds fantastic. But like you said regardless it’s just such a good cable with the A18t with any module. 

Thank you, the 1960s 4 wire is great too


----------



## Number9redreD

mrgray said:


> yeah i found that the stock cable for audio64 stuff is pretty terrible.  ergo is fantastic but there is zero soundstage (everything is on top of everything else).  arguably there isn't an IEM that matters more for than the fourte, given one of its mind blowing strengths is space and sound stage etc.
> 
> also i would disagree re: declining return for cables (although i acknowledge that different people have different positions about this - for example i'm right and alot of other people are wrong).  yeah but i don't see declining return at all.  for example the alo ref 8 is around 500 AUD and it is terrible.  the 1950 is around 3500 AUD.  it is exponentially better than the ref 8.  the problem appears more to be with me running out of money for these incredible cables which utterly revolutionise IEM sound (IMHO).


You’re not wrong, as soon as i even looked at it i knew it was subpar. It’s only redeeming quality is the fact that i don't feel the iems on my head, which is a nice change.


----------



## Number9redreD

SeeSax said:


> Glad to have you back, my friend  I ended up with a 1950 cable on my U18T and it is pure heaven. With the M20 module, it's all out musicality with loads of detail. With the M15, it's precision, spacious and crazy amounts of detail. I've got the M15 in now and think I will keep it this way. With a warmer Sony source, it's as close to perfect as I've heard. I also got a 2-wire 1960 and unfortunately it is MMCX so I cannot try it on the U18T. But your assessment matches mine with the 1950. Congrats on the 4-wire by the way!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are there any tracks you can suggest for me where the “huge soundstage” is particularly apparent? As i said before, im reasonably new to this, so im trying to put the words to what im hearing.

Thanks


----------



## mvvRAZ

Number9redreD said:


> Are there any tracks you can suggest for me where the “huge soundstage” is particularly apparent? As i said before, im reasonably new to this, so im trying to put the words to what im hearing.
> 
> Thanks


Try Marvin Gaye's "Heard it through the grapevine" - that's one I regularly use to test out. Generally non-mono jazz/blues tends to have loads of detail and positional audio due to the way songs were recorded back then. 

Also what source are you using for the Fourte? 

Considering the nature of the hobby, what you might be experiencing is a lack of natural escalation, hence the let-down. My experience for example was something along the lines of:

1. Years of Beats, Bose, Earbuds, etc etc - heavily mediocre audio, listen to the music, ignore the gear - honestly didn't know anything better existed, but I was in love with the music and that was enough for me. 
2. First car with Harman Cardon speakers - the improvement from the regular gear was insane, and my favourite place to listen to music became my car (I know how non-HiFi this sounds but don't judge )
3. Noble Audio Sage - finally found out what IEMs are etc, those were a good entry level model from what I read, and because of the lovely green design, that's what I got. They are relatively neural, kind of mid-centric, and the sound signature was unlike any I heard before - took some time to adjust but generally loved the experience
4. About a month after the Sage, I came across an unsold Andromeda S, instantly pulled the trigger. Was unlike anything I had heard before, and honestly up until a week ago I was dead certain I wouldn't hear better in this lifetime. I still prefer it to headphones like the Utopia or the LCD4. 
5. Half an year after the Andromeda S, got my A18t. Once again, a massive difference, mainly in terms of neutrality (even though the Andro is pretty neutral as is), but mostly in terms of soundstage and instrumental separation. I still adore my Andro, but often times I can feel that is isn't enough any more

My point is that most audiophiles tend to start with 100USD, then jump to 600, then to 1-2k range, then to the TOTLs. You train your hearing that way and sort of enable yourself to enjoy all the details and incremental improvements from one price range to another (not talking about value for money IEMs here, just ones that are representative for their price point). From what I've observed, you can get 80% of the best there is under 1000. You can get 95% under 2000. Those last 5% really break the bank - the fourte with an upgrade cable for example, and a pretty good source


----------



## mvvRAZ

SeeSax said:


> Glad to have you back, my friend  I ended up with a 1950 cable on my U18T and it is pure heaven. With the M20 module, it's all out musicality with loads of detail. With the M15, it's precision, spacious and crazy amounts of detail. I've got the M15 in now and think I will keep it this way. With a warmer Sony source, it's as close to perfect as I've heard. I also got a 2-wire 1960 and unfortunately it is MMCX so I cannot try it on the U18T. But your assessment matches mine with the 1950. Congrats on the 4-wire by the way!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Completely agreed with this, I tried the Fourte myself and loved it, but I was certain that it can't be my daily, all day everyday driver. I'd love to own one for certain moods and genres, but the 18 is much more down my alley in terms of sound presentation


----------



## Number9redreD

mvvRAZ said:


> Try Marvin Gaye's "Heard it through the grapevine" - that's one I regularly use to test out. Generally non-mono jazz/blues tends to have loads of detail and positional audio due to the way songs were recorded back then.
> 
> Also what source are you using for the Fourte?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions. The source im using is the sp1000ss. The experience of natural escalation is definitely something i don't have, which is unfortunate. But the truth is, my own lack of patience meant that there was no way i could pass up on an opportunity to own something like this, for another that may or may not be inferior. I guess thats something ill have to deal with later down the road.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Number9redreD said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. The source im using is the sp1000ss. The experience of natural escalation is definitely something i don't have, which is unfortunate. But the truth is, my own lack of patience meant that there was no way i could pass up on an opportunity to own something like this, for another that may or may not be inferior. I guess thats something ill have to deal with later down the road.


Yeah that's fair enough. 8 months ago I swore I wouldn't spend more than 1k on a full set up, now I own around 10k worth of gear, soon to expand by another 3 or 4. Also have the same impatience but I keep on telling myself I don't need TOTL, so I buy a bunch of stuff before ending up with a TOTL either way so your way is probably better

I'd say try and stop listening to the IEM and start listening to the music, after all that's what made you want an insane TOTL IEM. I had the same experience as you when I just got my 18, I kept on trying to confirm to myself just how insanely impressive they are when actually all I had to do is enjoy the music and the "wow" came on its own


----------



## Number9redreD

mvvRAZ said:


> Yeah that's fair enough. 8 months ago I swore I wouldn't spend more than 1k on a full set up, now I own around 10k worth of gear, soon to expand by another 3 or 4. Also have the same impatience but I keep on telling myself I don't need TOTL, so I buy a bunch of stuff before ending up with a TOTL either way so your way is probably better
> 
> I'd say try and stop listening to the IEM and start listening to the music, after all that's what made you want an insane TOTL IEM. I had the same experience as you when I just got my 18, I kept on trying to confirm to myself just how insanely impressive they are when actually all I had to do is enjoy the music and the "wow" came on its own


Everything you said was perfect. You've been a massive help so thank you.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Number9redreD said:


> Everything you said was perfect. You've been a massive help so thank you.


Expectations are the death of all fun buddy, happy listening \m/


----------



## NickL33

SeeSax said:


> Glad to have you back, my friend  I ended up with a 1950 cable on my U18T and it is pure heaven. With the M20 module, it's all out musicality with loads of detail. With the M15, it's precision, spacious and crazy amounts of detail. I've got the M15 in now and think I will keep it this way. With a warmer Sony source, it's as close to perfect as I've heard. I also got a 2-wire 1960 and unfortunately it is MMCX so I cannot try it on the U18T. But your assessment matches mine with the 1950. Congrats on the 4-wire by the way!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Speaking of which, what cable do you found z1r is matching with?


----------



## deafdoorknob

Number9redreD said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. The source im using is the sp1000ss. The experience of natural escalation is definitely something i don't have, which is unfortunate. But the truth is, my own lack of patience meant that there was no way i could pass up on an opportunity to own something like this, for another that may or may not be inferior. I guess thats something ill have to deal with later down the road.



what ear-tips are you using? fourte with stock foamies retain most of the highs but also fill out its bass and mids, making it a lot more coherent. but again, their tonal balance would never be as “exciting” as the ibasso, it is about subtleties and micro dynamics, if anything, Trio (which i currently own, after extended audition vs Fourte, U18t and U12t) is more bombastic and colourful.


----------



## deafdoorknob (Jun 28, 2019)

speaking of which, a query for cable gurus @Deezel177, @ezekiel77 @Wyville @twister6 ... still in search of an ideal match for the Trio. i have imposed some parameters in the search:-

4 wires or less; low microphonics; ergonomic; under 800$ usd.

Currently, soundwise, i am most happy with the Dita SPC, but that cable is physically the pits. Thor Silver 2 is too hot, exaggerated contrast and a tad too much upper/mid bass.

Oslo was too lush, PWA 5 too intimate, PWA pure silver, opposite of Thor Silver 2 but the cable is again too stiff.

Right now, the one cable that is the least bad compromise (for me) is the Eros 2 4 wire, which is similar to the dita truth but with less subbass, spatial precision and ambience retrival.

Given my preferences (Trio with less upper bass, better coherence, information retrieval, and technicalities), any suggestions aside from the usual suspects (Leo 2 / Cleo)? thanks in advance!


----------



## SeeSax

NickL33 said:


> Speaking of which, what cable do you found z1r is matching with?



For me, the Labkable Pandora has checked all the right boxes. Revealing, natural tonality with plenty of sparkle. And it keeps the huge stage and pushes it even further.

Neutral cables have worked best for me because I didn’t want to add warmth.

-Collin-


----------



## Number9redreD

deafdoorknob said:


> what ear-tips are you using? fourte with stock foamies retain most of the highs but also fill out its bass and mids, making it a lot more coherent. but again, their tonal balance would never be as “exciting” as the ibasso, it is about subtleties and micro dynamics, if anything, Trio (which i currently own, after extended audition vs Fourte, U18t and U12t) is more bombastic and colourful.


Im currently using the stock foams. I have a couple others of varying materials and configs, just haven't taken the time to roll yet as these fit so well.


----------



## Wyville

deafdoorknob said:


> speaking of which, a query for cable gurus @Deezel177, @ezekiel77 @Wyville @twister6 ... still in search of an ideal match for the Trio. i have imposed some parameters in the search:-
> 
> 4 wires or less; low microphonics; ergonomic; under 800$ usd.
> 
> ...


Sorry, completely forgot I was going to check the Truth silver (not sure if it is SPC) with the Trio for you. 

So I did a quick test with a few cables and the one that seems to be the closest to the Truth might be the PlusSound Exo Silver+Gold, which has a similar balance, but is perhaps a little more laid-back in the treble. The Gold Plated Silver has a similar level of brightness in the treble, but a more prominent bass response, which might not be what you are looking for. One thing though, none come close to the stage width and spacious feel of the Truth. Maybe the PlusSound Tri-Silver is an option, but I have not heard it myself. Alex did a comparison with Leo II in his review, which might be interesting.


----------



## NickL33

SeeSax said:


> For me, the Labkable Pandora has checked all the right boxes. Revealing, natural tonality with plenty of sparkle. And it keeps the huge stage and pushes it even further.
> 
> Neutral cables have worked best for me because I didn’t want to add warmth.
> 
> -Collin-



How does the mid goes? Does it move abit foward?


----------



## twister6

deafdoorknob said:


> what ear-tips are you using? fourte with stock foamies retain most of the highs but also fill out its bass and mids, making it a lot more coherent. but again, their tonal balance would never be as “exciting” as the ibasso, it is about subtleties and micro dynamics, if anything, Trio (which i currently own, after extended audition vs Fourte, U18t and U12t) is more bombastic and colourful.



Yes, their stock marshmallow tips is a must, especially if you are sensitive to lower treble peaks.  They tame it down without sucking too much treble energy out.  As a matter of fact, I went through a dozen of different eartips testing their "new" upcoming IEM, and keep coming back to stock marshmallow foamies as the only solution.


----------



## Deezel177

deafdoorknob said:


> speaking of which, a query for cable gurus @Deezel177, @ezekiel77 @Wyville @twister6 ... still in search of an ideal match for the Trio. i have imposed some parameters in the search:-
> 
> 4 wires or less; low microphonics; ergonomic; under 800$ usd.
> 
> ...



I hope to receive my Trio within a week or two from now, so I'll let you know then.


----------



## audio123

For existing or potential PW Audio cable owners, here is PW Audio thread. Cheers!


----------



## Number9redreD

twister6 said:


> Yes, their stock marshmallow tips is a must, especially if you are sensitive to lower treble peaks.  They tame it down without sucking too much treble energy out.  As a matter of fact, I went through a dozen of different eartips testing their "new" upcoming IEM, and keep coming back to stock marshmallow foamies as the only solution.


Would you happen to know if they are just generic tips that can be bought from anywhere, or are they actually branded? Mine already have slight disintegration, so i just wanna buy a bunch.


----------



## ezekiel77

deafdoorknob said:


> speaking of which, a query for cable gurus @Deezel177, @ezekiel77 @Wyville @twister6 ... still in search of an ideal match for the Trio. i have imposed some parameters in the search:-
> 
> 4 wires or less; low microphonics; ergonomic; under 800$ usd.
> 
> ...


Haven't heard the Trio in a long time, so I might not be aware of the synergy. But based on the characteristics you've mentioned, you can try out Han Sound's Redcore or yup, Leo II. Leo II is more musical while Redcore is more technical, and there's some bass reduction going on with the Redcore.


----------



## twister6

deafdoorknob said:


> speaking of which, a query for cable gurus @Deezel177, @ezekiel77 @Wyville @twister6 ... still in search of an ideal match for the Trio. i have imposed some parameters in the search:-
> 
> 4 wires or less; low microphonics; ergonomic; under 800$ usd.
> 
> ...



I did cover Trio and U12t cable rolling a few years ago when I reviewed those.  Of course, it's a bit dated.


----------



## Number9redreD

twister6 said:


> Yes, their stock marshmallow tips is a must, especially if you are sensitive to lower treble peaks.  They tame it down without sucking too much treble energy out.  As a matter of fact, I went through a dozen of different eartips testing their "new" upcoming IEM, and keep coming back to stock marshmallow foamies as the only solution.


Would you happen to know if they are just generic tips that can be bought from anywhere, or are they actually branded? Mine already have slight disintegration, so i just wanna buy a bunch.


----------



## Doctortre2481

Can anyone explain pw audio 1950s price ?? Like With Iem I get it more driver more tech etc.. but I don't understand why a copper cable would be 3,000 sgd.


----------



## mrgray

i've been using this cable for 6 months or so.  with wm1Z until very recently when it became Hugo and whatever source.

cables are weird.  

before the pw1950 i had an alo ref8.  very bright and horrid.  i forced to listen to it, thinking this was what high end was like (i guess).

then i heard a silverfi cable.  $2k USD.  made the whole rig sing like a bird.  loved it.

then couldn't do commute with that so tried pw1950s.  crazy!  sounds so good.  got it on right now.  gosh knows what these people are doing but god bless them.


----------



## Doctortre2481 (Jul 8, 2019)

mrgray said:


> i've been using this cable for 6 months or so.  with wm1Z until very recently when it became Hugo and whatever source.
> 
> cables are weird.
> 
> ...



Listen I've done some cable rolling ( not much as I live in Melbourne) and I definitely think a cable makes a difference. But I just don't understand why 1950 copper wire is almost 10x the price of other really good companies? Like it's the same price as my legend x .


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 9, 2019)

Doctortre2481 said:


> Can anyone explain pw audio 1950s price ?? Like With Iem I get it more driver more tech etc.. but I don't understand why a copper cable would be 3,000 sgd.


I think it has to do with the jacket on the cables. The shielding prevents electron hopping between individual strands of copper, and prevents noise and interference. On full size speakers to my ears solid copper wires sound the best, can't have solid wires on an iem, they need to be flexible, so you need really good shielding, even between individual strands.
Should these cables be as expensive as they are? No. But they do make a substantial difference when it comes to sound.
Cardas wires has a PVC resin like coating on their cables, and I believe that is what PW Audio is using. Every single strand of OCC Copper is shielded


----------



## SeeSax (Jul 12, 2019)

I can't really speak to what makes the 1950s cable $3,000 SGD, but I can say that it's a damn good cable. @Kitechaser is probably on the right track with the shielding and general characteristics of the top of the line OCC copper wire.

I heard the 1950 on the PW Audio tour and was pretty blown away by it. I now own a cable made by a very talented cable builder in the States that uses the same Cardas copper wire (and same awesome gray insulation, but upgraded Eidolic titanium accouterments) and it lives up to the hype. It's a cable of contradictions: highly detailed and analytical but not harsh, musical but not lacking precision and it's comfortable as all hell to boot. I don't know that I'd pay the $2,500 USD going rate for the 1950s (I wouldn't pay that for any cable), but I can say it's one of (if not the best) cable I've ever heard and I have had some pretty decent stuff in my arsenal 

-Collin-


----------



## freesole

SeeSax said:


> I can't really speak to what makes the 1950s cable $3,000 SGD, but I can say that it's a damn good cable. @Kitechaser is probably on the right track with the shielding and general characteristics of the top of the line OCC copper wire.
> 
> I heard the 1950 on the PW Audio tour and was pretty blown away by it. I now own a cable made by a very talented cable builder in the States that uses the same Cardas copper wire (and same awesome gray insulation) and it lives up to the hype. It's a cable of contradictions: highly detailed and analytical but not harsh, musical but not lacking precision and it's comfortable as all hell to boot. I don't know that I'd pay the $2,500 USD going rate for the 1950s, but I can say it's one of (if not the best) cable I've ever heard and I have had some pretty decent stuff in my arsenal
> 
> -Collin-



Interesting. How does your custom cable sound compared to the 1950s if you can recall? Would love to try a custom cable one of these days with my Flamencos.


----------



## SeeSax (Jul 12, 2019)

freesole said:


> Interesting. How does your custom cable sound compared to the 1950s if you can recall? Would love to try a custom cable one of these days with my Flamencos.



Unfortunately I did not have the two cables at the same time, so my "going by memory" opinion is somewhat useless. That said, the new custom cable is everything I would hope for in a cable. The 4-wire form-factor is super ergonomic, the bass is extremely tight, precise and yet still impactful, the mids are detailed and clear without any kind of injected warmth and the treble is sparkly without any sibilance. I had sort of figured that only silver or silver/gold cables could achieve this, but the hype with the 1950s-type cable is real.

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

I am so glad more people are getting to experience the 1950s. I bought mine in November and reluctantly sold it a few months ago and just had to get it back so I repurchased one. This one is staying for good, with its new partner in crime the 1960s 4 wire


----------



## SeeSax

aaf evo said:


> I am so glad more people are getting to experience the 1950s. I bought mine in November and reluctantly sold it a few months ago and just had to get it back so I repurchased one. This one is staying for good, with its new partner in crime the 1960s 4 wire



Ha! Yes, you are at least a partial influence on my obsession with 1950s and now I have to PM you about 1960 4-wire lol

-Collin-


----------



## aaf evo

SeeSax said:


> Ha! Yes, you are at least a partial influence on my obsession with 1950s and now I have to PM you about 1960 4-wire lol
> 
> -Collin-



Feel free !


----------



## Doctortre2481

aaf evo said:


> I am so glad more people are getting to experience the 1950s. I bought mine in November and reluctantly sold it a few months ago and just had to get it back so I repurchased one. This one is staying for good, with its new partner in crime the 1960s 4 wire


what made you sell it ?


----------



## aaf evo

Doctortre2481 said:


> what made you sell it ?



Needed funds.


----------



## proedros

Number9redreD said:


> You’re not wrong, as soon as i even looked at it i knew it was subpar. *It’s only redeeming quality is the fact that i don't feel the iems on my head, which is a nice change.*



3Κ is a tad too much money for only this quality imo

if they sound sh.it with the stock cable , chances are you probably bought something that will always feel like a bad buy to you

oh and welcome to head-fi , don't (always) believe the hype ,  sorry for wallet


----------



## proedros

Doctortre2481 said:


> Can anyone explain pw audio 1950s price ?? Like With Iem I get it more driver more tech etc.. but I don't understand why a copper cable would be 3,000 sgd.



since there are people here with money to burn , companies will put out 3K cables

capitalism, baby


----------



## Number9redreD

proedros said:


> 3Κ is a tad too much money for only this quality imo
> 
> if they sound sh.it with the stock cable , chances are you probably bought something that will always feel like a bad buy to you
> 
> oh and welcome to head-fi , don't (always) believe the hype ,  sorry for wallet


Thats what confuses me about 64 audio. I just don't know how they can think it’s acceptable to give customers, who are paying crazy amounts for their products, cables like this. The very least they should've done was go the route Empire Ears went and collab with a respected manufacturer. Hell, even many companies from the chi-fi market are providing cables that look more expensive than the iems themselves.


----------



## proedros

Number9redreD said:


> Thats what confuses me about 64 audio. I just don't know how they can think it’s acceptable to give customers, who are paying crazy amounts for their products, cables like this. The very least they should've done was go the route Empire Ears went and collab with a respected manufacturer. Hell, even many companies from the chi-fi market are providing cables that look more expensive than the iems themselves.



one other sacred rule here (at least for us without huge wallets) is do a lot of reading , bypass the hype and wait for good deals either via the official vendors or by buying from the FS threads 

also , my Zeus XR sounds great with a normal 300$ cable , i mean if i need a 3K cable to make my 2K ciem sound good , them i am probably a fool

good luck with this hobby , and hoping your next buys seem like a better buy to you

cheers


----------



## Number9redreD

proedros said:


> one other sacred rule here (at least for us without huge wallets) is do a lot of reading , bypass the hype and wait for good deals either via the official vendors or by buying from the FS threads
> 
> also , my Zeus XR sounds great with a normal 300$ cable , i mean if i need a 3K cable to make my 2K ciem sound good , them i am probably a fool
> 
> ...


Oh, don't get me wrong, im actually starting to cozy up to the Fourtés. With pristinely recorded music, they seriously sing. They’re just missing something. Maybe the U18t’s will fill that hole


----------



## singleended5863

Hello newbie here. 
Have you tried the Satin Audio cables from Vietnam yet? How is the sound? Thanks


----------



## Doctortre2481

Kitechaser said:


> I think it has to do with the jacket on the cables. The shielding prevents electron hopping between individual strands of copper, and prevents noise and interference. On full size speakers to my ears solid copper wires sound the best, can't have solid wires on an iem, they need to be flexible, so you need really good shielding, even between individual strands.
> Should these cables be as expensive as they are? No. But they do make a substantial difference when it comes to sound.
> Cardas wires has a PVC resin like coating on their cables, and I believe that is what PW Audio is using. Every single strand of OCC Copper is shielded


Yea but do you feel like your wire is really worth more than your dx229? At more than double the cost it seems a bit ridiculous. I haven't tried the 1950 cable hopefully one day I will but no matter what I feel like there cheating there customers .Even if every wire is shielded would that really make it cost 25000 ?? I mean it's just copper  ( obviously a good one )


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 17, 2019)

Doctortre2481 said:


> Yea but do you feel like your wire is really worth more than your dx229? At more than double the cost it seems a bit ridiculous. I haven't tried the 1950 cable hopefully one day I will but no matter what I feel like there cheating there customers .Even if every wire is shielded would that really make it cost 25000 ?? I mean it's just copper  ( obviously a good one )


I think they are using cardas wire, where every individual strand is coated in a PVC resin, and then there is other shielding on top of that. I have the 2 wire 1960s, it retails for $1100.
To be completely honest, it sounds better and clearer than any other copper cable I have ever heard, and highs are extended like on a silver cable. Tonality is spot on.
How much does that PVC coating cost? Probably next to nothing. Should they be charging $1100 for a 4 ft cable? No.
But compared to other cables that go for 300-500 dollars, is it a sizable step up? Yes.
If I bought wires from cardas, and knew someone who could build a cable like PW audio (for cheaper), I would jump on that in a heartbeat, but as it stands, this is the best copper cable on the market.
That market says $1100, or in the case of a 1950s $2500, people pay it.
The difference is audible, and substantial, the price is "very" debatable.


----------



## bvng3540

Kitechaser said:


> I think they are using cardas wire, where every individual strand is coated in a PVC resin, and then there is other shielding on top of that. I have the 2 wire 1960s, it retails for $1100.
> To be completely honest, it sounds better and clearer than any other copper cable I have ever heard, and highs are extended like on a silver cable. Tonality is spot on.
> How much does that PVC coating cost? Probably next to nothing. Should they be charging $1100 for a 4 ft cable? No.
> But compared to other cables that go for 300-500 dollars, is it a sizable step up? Yes.
> ...


You are correct about the wires on 1960 and 1950, they both used cardas wires, if you can get the wires let me know, I'm very interest in buying some for diy cables


----------



## Doctortre2481

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/hookup-wire/cardas/185awg.html


bvng3540 said:


> You are correct about the wires on 1960 and 1950, they both used cardas wires, if you can get the wires let me know, I'm very interest in buying some for diy cables


same ???


----------



## bvng3540

Doctortre2481 said:


> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/hookup-wire/cardas/185awg.html
> 
> same ???


No,


----------



## Kitechaser

Doctortre2481 said:


> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/hookup-wire/cardas/185awg.html
> 
> same ???


Yeah that's it.


----------



## Kitechaser

bvng3540 said:


> No,


It's not OCC. Yup you are right.


----------



## bvng3540

A good friend of mine able to rather some cardas wires and create 1950 cable, sound the same but look way better than pw audio


----------



## Deezel177

singleended5863 said:


> Hello newbie here.
> Have you tried the Satin Audio cables from Vietnam yet? How is the sound? Thanks



In case you haven't seen it, I reviewed them here: https://theheadphonelist.com/satin-audio-griffin-and-chimera-new-standards/


----------



## NickL33

bvng3540 said:


> A good friend of mine able to rather some cardas wires and create 1950 cable, sound the same but look way better than pw audio



Damn...... thats some good stuff.


----------



## pithyginger63 (Jul 18, 2019)

just a question with regards to silver purity. I'm finding multiple sources that say most silver we can get is 4N level purity and that 5N and above are impractical and ridiculously expensive. But then some sources say 4N is not a very high purity.

Also, side question, what's the theory behind gold plated silver? Is it more or less conductive than pure silver? I assume less


----------



## IgeNeLL

singleended5863 said:


> Hello newbie here.
> Have you tried the Satin Audio cables from Vietnam yet? How is the sound? Thanks


It is for newbie


----------



## crabdog

IgeNeLL said:


> It is for newbie


What is that supposed to mean?


----------



## singleended5863

IgeNeLL said:


> It is for newbie





crabdog said:


> What is that supposed to mean?



For me it is a newbie in this thread since I find it interesting and I only use the Effect Audio and Triton Audio Cables and Toxic Cables before. Try to find other varieties.


----------



## crabdog

singleended5863 said:


> For me it is a newbie in this thread since I find it interesting and I only use the Effect Audio and Triton Audio Cables and Toxic Cables before. Try to find other varieties.


In that case, you might be interested in the Kimera. This combo just blows my mind; I can't stop listening!


----------



## IgeNeLL

singleended5863 said:


> For me it is a newbie in this thread since I find it interesting and I only use the Effect Audio and Triton Audio Cables and Toxic Cables before. Try to find other varieties.


What is your expectation?. There are variety of brands out there.


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 20, 2019)

pithyginger63 said:


> just a question with regards to silver purity. I'm finding multiple sources that say most silver we can get is 4N level purity and that 5N and above are impractical and ridiculously expensive. But then some sources say 4N is not a very high purity.
> 
> Also, side question, what's the theory behind gold plated silver? Is it more or less conductive than pure silver? I assume less


Gold plated Silver is less Conductive.
To my ears pure metals have the best timbre and sound.
My ears are partial to OCC copper, 2nd is OCC Silver.
Silver or Gold plated anything sounds wrong, at least to me. And Hybrid cables Silver/Copper mix have a wonky tonality.
Again, other may feel very differently.

Add: the 4N/5N is mostly marketing, who knows what these companies are using. No one is checking their claims as far as I know.
I would go by reputation, and sound impressions, and finally just listen for yourself.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Kitechaser said:


> Gold plated Silver is less Conductive.
> To my ears pure metals have the best timbre and sound.
> My ears are partial to OCC copper, 2nd is OCC Silver.
> Silver or Gold plated anything sounds wrong, at least to me. And Hybrid cables Silver/Copper mix have a wonky tonality.
> ...


I agree with you actually, for me it goes 

Pure silver > pure copper > SPC > everything else


----------



## Barra

Kitechaser said:


> I think they are using cardas wire, where every individual strand is coated in a PVC resin, and then there is other shielding on top of that. I have the 2 wire 1960s, it retails for $1100.
> To be completely honest, it sounds better and clearer than any other copper cable I have ever heard, and highs are extended like on a silver cable. Tonality is spot on.
> How much does that PVC coating cost? Probably next to nothing. Should they be charging $1100 for a 4 ft cable? No.
> But compared to other cables that go for 300-500 dollars, is it a sizable step up? Yes.
> ...


Having just hosted the PWAudio cable tour, I can confidently say that the PWAudio cables are a stand out in not just looks, but especially in sound quality. However, also having a wide assortment of CIEMs to try them with the different cables paired differently with my different CIEMs with wide-ranging results. I found that pairing is really a big deal. Out of the 1900s class which I enjoyed the most, my favorite pairings were the 1960/A18, 1950/Legend X, 1980/A12 - each of these pairings was a wow!!! The cables optimized the strengths and weakness of each CIEM to take each to the next level in SQ. The hard part was shipping back the cables at the end of the tour where I had to disconnect them from my CIEMs and put the stock cable or upgraded cable back on and hear the difference in SQ which was significant. The most painful swap was with my Legend X so I ended up getting the 1950 to regain that SQ. The 1950 offers another level of clarity, brings things closer for more intimacy, offers high fidelity to the twin dynamic bass drivers allowing me to turn up the volume further without noise, and even widened the sound stage. I cannot get enough of this X/1950 pairing. Now, my X sounds great directly out of my Sony WM1A which was too thick with the other cable. I wish I could justify the 1960 and the 1980 for my 18 and 12 as well as they are not getting the ear time anymore now that I have this magical pairing.


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 20, 2019)

Barra said:


> Having just hosted the PWAudio cable tour, I can confidently say that the PWAudio cables are a stand out in not just looks, but especially in sound quality. However, also having a wide assortment of CIEMs to try them with the different cables paired differently with my different CIEMs with wide-ranging results. I found that pairing is really a big deal. Out of the 1900s class which I enjoyed the most, my favorite pairings were the 1960/A18, 1950/Legend X, 1980/A12 - each of these pairings was a wow!!! The cables optimized the strengths and weakness of each CIEM to take each to the next level in SQ. The hard part was shipping back the cables at the end of the tour where I had to disconnect them from my CIEMs and put the stock cable or upgraded cable back on and hear the difference in SQ which was significant. The most painful swap was with my Legend X so I ended up getting the 1950 to regain that SQ. The 1950 offers another level of clarity, brings things closer for more intimacy, offers high fidelity to the twin dynamic bass drivers allowing me to turn up the volume further without noise, and even widened the sound stage. I cannot get enough of this X/1950 pairing. Now, my X sounds great directly out of my Sony WM1A which was too thick with the other cable. I wish I could justify the 1960 and the 1980 for my 18 and 12 as well as they are not getting the ear time anymore now that I have this magical pairing.


These cables really do make a marked difference. My iem combo sounds so much like my Magnepan 1.7i setup, it's quite insane. The 1960s 2 wire cable just brought everything together( perfect match, my other cables sound so pedestrian in comparison) to have this kind of SQ in my pocket is not something I would have thought possible even a few years ago.
With my next iem purchase I'll be looking at the 1960 4 wire, or 1950 cable, as it stands, I could call it quits and be very happy with my current setup, but I am committed to the next iteration of this planar driver. So there goes that 
You are eyeing the 1960 4 wire, to go for it or not.....that's a tough... tough call.


----------



## pithyginger63

bvng3540 said:


> A good friend of mine able to rather some cardas wires and create 1950 cable, sound the same but look way better than pw audio


I'm interested in trying this myself. what wire is the 1950s using


----------



## bvng3540

pithyginger63 said:


> I'm interested in trying this myself. what wire is the 1950s using


All I know is that he used cardas wires, it the exact wires that pw audio used


----------



## Kitechaser

bvng3540 said:


> All I know is that he used cardas wires, it the exact wires that pw audio used


Could you ask him for more details, and maybe leave a reply here?
Would appreciate it very much


----------



## Kitechaser

http://www.cardas.com/chassis_wire.php

All the cardas wires available.
Dealers in every country pretty much.
Grade 1 copper or silver (shielded) is what we want.


----------



## bvng3540

Kitechaser said:


> http://www.cardas.com/chassis_wire.php
> 
> All the cardas wires available.
> Dealers in every country pretty much.
> Grade 1 copper or silver (shielded) is what we want.


Not sure which one it is, it a single wire with shielded


----------



## buonassi

Are there any cables that you can rec to tame 6 to 8 khz lift in treble? I have a meze Rai Penta that's a bit hot in this region but I want to keep the air and upper treble in the final octave unaltered.  Don't want to sacrifice on resolution.


----------



## crabdog

My thoughts on the Han Sound Audio Kimera. Delicious.
https://primeaudio.org/han-sound-audio-kimera/


----------



## dfung

Can anyone recommend light and short cables for max portability when plugged to BT DAC/AMPs?
Like the girl in the promo pic featuring the FiiO BTR3? Lol
https://www.fiio.com/btr3
It looks very convenient and portable!


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Hello everyone. Does burn-in exists or proven that sound actually changed on fully BA based IEMs and for cable? Or is it just 'brain burn'?


----------



## singleended5863

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hello everyone. Does burn-in exists or proven that sound actually changed on fully BA based IEMs and for cable? Or is it just 'brain burn'?



It is up to individual believe. To me my DX229 is burning in (DX220 has reached more than 150 hours and amp9 just more than 50 hours). Both SQ has changed gradually.


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 25, 2019)

Erfan Elahi said:


> Hello everyone. Does burn-in exists or proven that sound actually changed on fully BA based IEMs and for cable? Or is it just 'brain burn'?


As I have heard it, yes. It's plain as day to find out for yourself. Its really easy to spot with DD and Planar Drivers, BA iems it happens a bit faster.
Cables can take up to 200 hours, and sometimes more to fully burn in.
If you try to graph it, there is little to no change, but there is more to sound than a simple frequency graph.


----------



## olddude

And here we go......


----------



## theveterans

olddude said:


> And here we go......



It's a DBT-free thread though......


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Well, it's confusing. I have heard both saying BAs physically don't burn, yet some says it does and you can hear the difference. Whether it actually occurs or not the debate continues. But I will consider myself a believer too as 3 days ago when I first unboxed my Massdrop Zeus, it had a constant weird tingly sound at the mids which is started disappearing after three hours. The initial signature was too thin and harsh which also started getting better after 50 hours of playback.

Paired with the WM1Z for the moment. Most genres sounds impressive detail, but ONLY for some records (specially power metal and orchestral genre) - not getting enough sound stage, separation, the congestion and hiss is to much to bear. Even though the WM1Z has the well renounced thick signature, still it is too thin. Sometimes the base guitar is too subtle to notice. So I am missing the bass too. Bass to feel the base guitar and drums more realistically. And there were some subtle clicks in some parts of some songs, which are now barely noticeable. My main genre is rock and metal for reference. Burned around 60 hours so far at the moment of writing this.

*I am seeking cable upgrade suggestion for maximum optimization of the Zeus*. At the moment I have paired the EA Thor Silver II. I have been thinking of getting the Wagnus Frosty Sheep Mastering edition. Other suggestions will be helpful too.

Also, can the Chord mojo or the Hugo 2 bring bigger soundstage and separation than the WM1Z?

Too many questions! Thanks in advance...


----------



## olddude

Give the Zeus at least 50 hours of burn-in.  Since you've done that, the cable is next.  I don't like the one that comes with the Drop version (hybrid or silver thins it out).  I use an Ares ll.  Both the 4 and the 8 wires sound great (8 has larger soundstage).  But I'm using a much less warm source.  The Zeus is incredibly detailed and transparent.  It's going to sound different from whatever you were using before because of its sound sig.  Brain burn-in will be helpful.  Certainly a copper cable will give more oomph.  As to the hiss, I've not heard of the Z having that issue with the Zeus (some other sources do).  The Mojo from what I've heard will smooth things out, which is the opposite of what the Zeus does.  It you really want timbre and bass and thicker sound consider the Phantom or the Legend X.  The Zeus is built for 3D transparent detailed sound.  It's crystal clear, not a wash of sound.


----------



## olddude

Went for a walk (with my Zeus XR) and thought more about your questions.  Assuming you are using the FA tips that came with the Drop Zeus, consider trying some Comply Isolation/Sport foamies.  You'll pick up some lower end, lose a bit of upper end, and thicken the mids a bit.  I don't use them because I am used to the Zeus and like it (it delivers exactly what is on the track, not adding anything), but they might help you figure out what is going on.  The Zeus has a whole lot of bottom end if the track does, but it doesn't put any in if it doesn't.  You say you like rock.  Play Paint It Black by the Rolling Stones and you should hear lots of bass.  But the Zeus is not a slammer, you are not going to feel the shake the way you will with other iems.  That's not what it was built to do.  It's basically a reference, as is the UERM.  It's not exactly uncolored, but close enough.  Lots of lovely mids and trebles.  Fairly transparent bottom end.


----------



## Roasty

Apologies if this has been asked before. Didn't manage to go through this whole thread (it's so long!) 

Anyways, I'm in the market for a cable for a new set of custom A12T. I guess the general perception is copper, silver, gold etc have different sound signatures.. 

What do you guys think about the cables that combine all three for eg the Han Sound Kimera and PW Xerxes?

High end iem cables are pretty new to me.. I've only had one decent iem which was a shure 846 paired with a moon audio silver dragon and that has, and is still serving me well, since 5 years ago.


----------



## pithyginger63

Roasty said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before. Didn't manage to go through this whole thread (it's so long!)
> 
> Anyways, I'm in the market for a cable for a new set of custom A12T. I guess the general perception is copper, silver, gold etc have different sound signatures..
> 
> ...


get Crystal Cable Dream Duet


----------



## buonassi

pithyginger63 said:


> get Crystal Cable Dream Duet


Why's that? What makes it a good pairing for the a12t? Not saying it's a bad pairing just wanna hear your pithy dialog on it.


----------



## pithyginger63

buonassi said:


> Why's that? What makes it a good pairing for the a12t? Not saying it's a bad pairing just wanna hear your pithy dialog on it.


To be completely honest, I haven't paired the two. I've only listened to the CCDD with the VE8, but the difference there was night and day. It was like listening to iems vs listening to headphones in terms of the soundstage width. I'm not sure if there will be such a profound effect on the A12t. 

I've always had a thing where I've felt the A12t sounds a little dark and intimate to my ears. Most cables I tried don't push instruments out much and I'm hoping the CCDD can open it up and brighten the sound a little. 

That being said, if there is someone who finds the A12t stock signature to be spot on, then I think the Plussound GPH X8 is a good match because it is euphonic sounding and improves microdetail and texture. A good copper cable would probably do as well.

I find the A12t's intimate and bassy sound to be really enjoyable but sometimes, I want to hear something that's really far out of my head. I think the Fibae 7 can probably fill that gap for me, I really like my impressions of it even though it's a little light on subbass for me.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

olddude said:


> Give the Zeus at least 50 hours of burn-in. Since you've done that, the cable is next. I don't like the one that comes with the Drop version (hybrid or silver thins it out). I use an Ares ll. Both the 4 and the 8 wires sound great (8 has larger soundstage). But I'm using a much less warm source. The Zeus is incredibly detailed and transparent. It's going to sound different from whatever you were using before because of its sound sig. Brain burn-in will be helpful. Certainly a copper cable will give more oomph. As to the hiss, I've not heard of the Z having that issue with the Zeus (some other sources do). The Mojo from what I've heard will smooth things out, which is the opposite of what the Zeus does. It you really want timbre and bass and thicker sound consider the Phantom or the Legend X. The Zeus is built for 3D transparent detailed sound. It's crystal clear, not a wash of sound.
> 
> Went for a walk (with my Zeus XR) and thought more about your questions.  Assuming you are using the FA tips that came with the
> Drop Zeus, consider trying some Comply Isolation/Sport foamies.  You'll pick up some lower end, lose a bit of upper end, and thicken the mids a bit.  I don't use them because I am used to the Zeus and like it (it delivers exactly what is on the track, not adding anything), but they might help you figure out what is going on.  The Zeus has a whole lot of bottom end if the track does, but it doesn't put any in if it doesn't.  You say you like rock.  Play Paint It Black by the Rolling Stones and you should hear lots of bass.  But the Zeus is not a slammer, you are not going to feel the shake the way you will with other iems. That's not what it was built to do.  It's basically a reference, as is the UERM.  It's not exactly uncolored, but close enough.  Lots of lovely mids and trebles.  Fairly transparent bottom end.



Thanks for your suggestions. It was burn-in issue indeed; now between 60 to 70 hours by today and it sounds pretty decent even with the stock cable. I can feel the base guitar more focused. Regarding the hiss - there were certain hissy parts in some records and Zeus just boosted it. Also, silver cable made it thin - that explains the thinness totally. The only thing is missing now is the wide sound stage which I red in reviews and took the Zeus as an upgrade to my 64 Audio U6. Hopefully the bespoke Ares II+ 8 braid will extend the soundstage on the 1Z as you said. If it still doesn't work out, will sell the 1Z and try the Hugo 2. For eartips, I switched back to the Spinfit CP100 for the moment as none of the Final E stock tips felt tight fit in my ears. I have used Comply before, I liked it's isolation, will get it again and will try Acoustune as well.

Lastly, since you own both the Massdrop Zeus and XR. How do you feel differ than each? I am getting addicted to the transparency of the Zeus as well and finally found the signature I sought.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

To keep alternatives in mind, a Rhapsodio Copper Wizard MK2 (4 wire version) is on sale. I can't find any review by googling. Anybody got any impression? Thinking to pair with my Zeus.


----------



## Ike1985 (Jul 27, 2019)

Barra said:


> Having just hosted the PWAudio cable tour, I can confidently say that the PWAudio cables are a stand out in not just looks, but especially in sound quality. However, also having a wide assortment of CIEMs to try them with the different cables paired differently with my different CIEMs with wide-ranging results. I found that pairing is really a big deal. Out of the 1900s class which I enjoyed the most, my favorite pairings were the 1960/A18, 1950/Legend X, 1980/A12 - each of these pairings was a wow!!! The cables optimized the strengths and weakness of each CIEM to take each to the next level in SQ. The hard part was shipping back the cables at the end of the tour where I had to disconnect them from my CIEMs and put the stock cable or upgraded cable back on and hear the difference in SQ which was significant. The most painful swap was with my Legend X so I ended up getting the 1950 to regain that SQ. The 1950 offers another level of clarity, brings things closer for more intimacy, offers high fidelity to the twin dynamic bass drivers allowing me to turn up the volume further without noise, and even widened the sound stage. I cannot get enough of this X/1950 pairing. Now, my X sounds great directly out of my Sony WM1A which was too thick with the other cable. I wish I could justify the 1960 and the 1980 for my 18 and 12 as well as they are not getting the ear time anymore now that I have this magical pairing.



Was there a second PW audio tour that I missed out on?  I'd love another listen, if you're referring to the first, that was quite awhile ago and I'd love to run it back.  The 1960/A18t is the pairing I loved as well but I'd live to run it back to make sure before I buy either the 50 or 60.  Also the 60 is available in a freakin 8 wire version that's absurdly high in price but I bet would be epic with the A18t.  I wonder why the 50 isn't available in such a configuration?  So we're there 2 pw tours or just the one? #runitback


----------



## olddude

Erfan Elahi said:


> Thanks for your suggestions. It was burn-in issue indeed; now between 60 to 70 hours by today and it sounds pretty decent even with the stock cable. I can feel the base guitar more focused. Regarding the hiss - there were certain hissy parts in some records and Zeus just boosted it. Also, silver cable made it thin - that explains the thinness totally. The only thing is missing now is the wide sound stage which I red in reviews and took the Zeus as an upgrade to my 64 Audio U6. Hopefully the bespoke Ares II+ 8 braid will extend the soundstage on the 1Z as you said. If it still doesn't work out, will sell the 1Z and try the Hugo 2. For eartips, I switched back to the Spinfit CP100 for the moment as none of the Final E stock tips felt tight fit in my ears. I have used Comply before, I liked it's isolation, will get it again and will try Acoustune as well.
> 
> Lastly, since you own both the Massdrop Zeus and XR. How do you feel differ than each? I am getting addicted to the transparency of the Zeus as well and finally found the signature I sought.


I sent my Ares ll 4-wire in to EA to be magically turned into an 8-wire and it's taking some time to get done and find its way back to me.  So currently my Massdrop one is languishing in my music box minus a cable.  But when I had the 4-wire on it, and compared it to the XR with the 8-wire, it was pretty close.  I only had 50-60 hours on the XlV and the 4-wire to boot.  When my new 8-wire returns, it will have a PSquared plug on it, so the two Zeus' will never be quite the same.  Jack said the two would be identical, but I wonder as there are differences (shell and bore, particularly).  However, so far the Massdrop didn't sound too far off.  I do find that the more hours, the better the Zeus gets.  My XR has at least 500 and it just sounds great.  

The 8-wire gives more room for instrument and vocal placement (I find the soundstage quite wide even with the 4-wire).  I don't think i"d want it any wider.  

The thing about the Zeus is its transparency.  That takes a little while to get used to.  But once you do, and you realize just how much you can hear, it's pretty fantastic.  It's not forgiving, though, and a bad mastering or mixing job is going to be really apparent.  I'm not sure I'd go to a Hugo.  You should investigate what kind of sound it brings to the party.  My AK SP1000 SS is a detail monster with a fairly reference sound signature and it matches up really well.  The copper version might give you a slight bit more warmth.  What you don't want to do is find a source that removes the magic from the Zeus.  You want to find one the compliments it.  As to tips, FA suggests using the smallest possible ones that give a good seal.  But if you move from silicone to foam you will pick up warmth and timbre for nominal cost.


----------



## SeeSax

Erfan Elahi said:


> To keep alternatives in mind, a Rhapsodio Copper Wizard MK2 (4 wire version) is on sale. I can't find any review by googling. Anybody got any impression? Thinking to pair with my Zeus.



I don't own the Zeus, but from what I understand it's a pretty lean, detailed and highly-resolved monitor. I have owned the Copper Wizard mk2 (and I'm selling mine, but it's MMCX, assume you're eyeballing the other one for sale) and it's a great cable. It's not a cable that will add a lot of warmth, but instead extracts loads of detail with a slightly darker signature. It still has sparkly treble, lots of air, expansive soundstage, but it diverges from a pure silver sound with a little more note density and black background. I think it would pair excellently with the Zeus based on my understanding of how the Zeus sounds. Just be warned, it's a pretty thick and heavy cable. 

I don't think there are any reviews for the CW2, but see Nic's excellent comparison with the mk1 version here: https://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r2-cable/3/

-Collin-


----------



## Erfan Elahi (Jul 28, 2019)

olddude said:


> I sent my Ares ll 4-wire in to EA to be magically turned into an 8-wire and it's taking some time to get done and find its way back to me.  So currently my Massdrop one is languishing in my music box minus a cable.  But when I had the 4-wire on it, and compared it to the XR with the 8-wire, it was pretty close.  I only had 50-60 hours on the XlV and the 4-wire to boot.  When my new 8-wire returns, it will have a PSquared plug on it, so the two Zeus' will never be quite the same.  Jack said the two would be identical, but I wonder as there are differences (shell and bore, particularly).  However, so far the Massdrop didn't sound too far off.  I do find that the more hours, the better the Zeus gets.  My XR has at least 500 and it just sounds great.
> 
> The 8-wire gives more room for instrument and vocal placement (I find the soundstage quite wide even with the 4-wire).  I don't think i"d want it any wider.
> 
> The thing about the Zeus is its transparency.  That takes a little while to get used to.  But once you do, and you realize just how much you can hear, it's pretty fantastic.  It's not forgiving, though, and a bad mastering or mixing job is going to be really apparent.  I'm not sure I'd go to a Hugo.  You should investigate what kind of sound it brings to the party.  My AK SP1000 SS is a detail monster with a fairly reference sound signature and it matches up really well.  The copper version might give you a slight bit more warmth.  What you don't want to do is find a source that removes the magic from the Zeus. You want to find one the compliments it. As to tips, FA suggests using the smallest possible ones that give a good seal.  But if you move from silicone to foam you will pick up warmth and timbre for nominal cost.


Yess! And I am getting more as more hours passing. Now I am getting a fine sharp bass from the 1Z. I was listening to Manowar's Battle Hymns (2010's MMXI version). Wow the beginning bomb-basting drums, I felt myself standing with the drummer and I can image all the hits. Which wasn't a live feel at all with the ZX-300 or the with the Zeus before proper burn. Also the Led Zeppelin's 'Since I have been loving you' cover by Europe - the click on the base at the beginning is back again. I still don't have the flac of Paint It Black by the Rolling Stones, I can manage time to download tomorrow and check it.

Actually regarding Hugo 2, someone commented on the drop that it utilizes the full of the Zeus. Ya, I better go through some more reviews as my only priority is, if the Hugo 2 can do better than the 1Z only by sonics. Because unlike android devices, the Sony software performance isn't much processing power hungry and it preforms same as the $400 ZX-300a vs the $3200 WM1Z for loading database or playing native DSDs. But I will still get an upgrade find out if my ears can really hear difference from high tier cables.

What I was looking for was a detailed crisp signature. I can always adjust the EQ if I am in a bass mood. I finally got it on the Zeus. I started my first DAP as Sony and started cable setup with the 4.4 mm. Later, I have red about the fine clarity the A&K DAPs offers, but for battery and the UI of Sony I already adjusted myself. I am not thinking of a change any more.

To everyone, I know this is a dedicated high-end cable thread, my apologies for the diversion.


----------



## Erfan Elahi (Jul 28, 2019)

SeeSax said:


> I don't own the Zeus, but from what I understand it's a pretty lean, detailed and highly-resolved monitor. I have owned the Copper Wizard mk2 (and I'm selling mine, but it's MMCX, assume you're eyeballing the other one for sale) and it's a great cable. It's not a cable that will add a lot of warmth, but instead extracts loads of detail with a slightly darker signature. It still has sparkly treble, lots of air, expansive soundstage, but it diverges from a pure silver sound with a little more note density and black background. I think it would pair excellently with the Zeus based on my understanding of how the Zeus sounds. Just be warned, it's a pretty thick and heavy cable.
> 
> I don't think there are any reviews for the CW2, but see Nic's excellent comparison with the mk1 version here: https://theheadphonelist.com/the-silverfi-iem-r2-cable/3/
> 
> -Collin-


Thanks a lot. that's total in-depth comparison. Ya, I am eyeballing the other 2pin version. So now three cables I have in mind - Ares II+ 8 braid, the 4 braid Wizard MK2, or the Wagnus Frosty Sheep. I wish I could buy all three and compare! Will cam back later with personal impression after final grab.

BTW, although Effect Audio is always late to response emails and less communicative, but their RMA service is really great!


----------



## Jeffyue

olddude said:


> Went for a walk (with my Zeus XR) and thought more about your questions.  Assuming you are using the FA tips that came with the Drop Zeus, consider trying some Comply Isolation/Sport foamies.  You'll pick up some lower end, lose a bit of upper end, and thicken the mids a bit.  I don't use them because I am used to the Zeus and like it (it delivers exactly what is on the track, not adding anything), but they might help you figure out what is going on.  The Zeus has a whole lot of bottom end if the track does, but it doesn't put any in if it doesn't.  You say you like rock.  Play Paint It Black by the Rolling Stones and you should hear lots of bass.  But the Zeus is not a slammer, you are not going to feel the shake the way you will with other iems.  That's not what it was built to do.  It's basically a reference, as is the UERM.  It's not exactly uncolored, but close enough.  Lots of lovely mids and trebles.  Fairly transparent bottom end.




I am wondering if a PW Audio 1960 will be a good match to the Massdrop Zeus.

I m currently using A18t, and going to get a 1960 4-wire.  May have chance for a 1960 2-wire as well.  Just wonder if either 2 or 4-wirr will help to bring back some warmth to the Zeus (will only get it next week though).  I m using SP1000 SS as my source.


----------



## Totoxio

Hello, does anybody have experience with japanese Bispa cables? I just bought their high end Bispa Ryou cable in 3.5mm MMCX configuration for my AKG N5005.


----------



## Kitechaser

Jeffyue said:


> I am wondering if a PW Audio 1960 will be a good match to the Massdrop Zeus.
> 
> I m currently using A18t, and going to get a 1960 4-wire.  May have chance for a 1960 2-wire as well.  Just wonder if either 2 or 4-wirr will help to bring back some warmth to the Zeus (will only get it next week though).  I m using SP1000 SS as my source.


The 1960s 2 wire should be great match. It brings out the low end, and gives more body to the sound, and should tame any and all harshness in the signature. 
The 4 wire is not a great match with bright iems, 2 wire is the way to go in my opinion.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

Theoretically the Wagnus Frosty mastering edition will be bright in order to bring all the detail and zeus is also bright. So bright + bright may boost some hiss in the mids on some records? Because I am getting quite hiss from the Thor Silver II *on some records *at the moment. But if I switch to the stock cable, it isn't much notable.


----------



## dubbcd

Rhapsodio Silver Wizard more middle detials than PW Monile ft 1960s 




Khan + Rhapsodio Silver Wizard by dubbcd on Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

And my other best set K10Wizard with PW 1950




Wizard K10 + PW Audio 1950s by dubbcd on Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi guys, my review of AAW’s flagship triple hybrid Canary is up. The Canary comes with the Symphonym Hakone cable, a 4-wire hybrid OCC silver/copper cable, as stock. The review includes impressions of the cable. It is impeccably built.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/aaw-canary.23659/reviews#review-22438


----------



## olddude

I got my Ares ll 4 wire to 8 wire conversion back, with the addition of a Psquared 2.5 plug.  The Psquared is very interesting.  It delivers more detail, more clarity and even better imaging within the soundstage.  The change is quite apparent (from a regular 2.5 plug).  I can clearly hear the differences between my two 8 wire Ares.  For $50 it was well worth it.


----------



## Erfan Elahi

So I took the Wagnus Frosty Sheep Mastering edition and sent to Wagnus RMA for a diagnosis since I bought it used. I am thinkin of upgrading the standard 2 PIN connectors to Pure Copper Silver Plating. The 4.4 jack is already Pentacom OFC. But will it improve sound signature by changing it to Pure Copper Silver Plating ? Which one better?

Also, keeping a 2 PIN to MMCX converter, can they compromise the sound quality?


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask which cable is recommended with the tia trio to add more details to the mids and highs


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> can i ask which cable is recommended with the tia trio to add more details to the mids and highs


not sure about the trio but an EA cleopatra is a good idea i think.


----------



## Sound Eq

pithyginger63 said:


> not sure about the trio but an EA cleopatra is a good idea i think.


looks really nice, i will try first to search for a second hand one for 4.4 balanced and 2 pin


----------



## Sound Eq (Aug 9, 2019)

hi everyone, i am not a cable expert but I have the following cables which are not high end ones

OC STUDIO Monarach
EFFECT Audio Eros
And a cheap headlounge copper cable

All those cables are 8 cores and 2.5 balanced and i used my ak se100

and I do not know why with all my iems ( khan, tia trio , and qdc fusion ) I prefer the cheap copper cable

Maybe I should source out a great copper cable instead of those hybrid ones

With just copper I felt the timbre and tonality is more natural than the other 2 cables and I did not feel the copper lacks in detail compared to the other 2 cables, so it was rich sounding and detailed and tonality was prefered with copper. It strange as I thought the tia trio which is a bit warm would be more liked with cables like the monrach or effect audio one

Again I am not an expert at all in cables so I need advise


----------



## olddude

HeadphoneLounge cables aren't all that cheap (well, in comparison to expensive ones, yes, but they are well-made).  Depending on the iem, I prefer copper as well.  I had a couple of Moon Silver Dragons and one Moon Black Dragon.  Liked them all, but they were dependent as well on source and iem.  My last pair of Silver Dragons sounded great on my AK240SS but when I upgraded to an AKSP1000SS they sounded way too sibilant (using an Angie).  Had to go back to the stock JH cable at that point, which I believe was copper.

Advice?  If you like how it sounds, it's right for you..


----------



## Totoxio (Aug 9, 2019)

Many headphone or earphone cable companies around the world source their copper from Japan. Actually, the inventor of OCC is Japanese. Strange enough, they have fair prices up there. I found a company, Bispa, available through Amazon Japan, that sells some very fine cables. I got a Bispa Ryou cable for my AKG N5005 a few days ago and couldn't be happier. I paid USD 260 for them, including shipping and customs taxes. I'm not experienced enough with cables to say they sound like more expensive ones but to me, they DO sound noticeably better than stock cables.


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> hi everyone, i am not a cable expert but I have the following cables which are not high end ones
> 
> OC STUDIO Monarach
> EFFECT Audio Eros
> ...


I've had a revelation in the past couple days. I finally got myself a silver cable which is way more transparent than anything else I've tried, but it isn't rich sounding at all. If a recording sounds rich, then it will sound rich, if a recording sounds bright, it sounds bright. On a copper cable, these brighter tracks are balanced again, making them sound less stringent. I believe these tracks are bright because they were mastered with compromised gear, ie they werent mastered with silver/other high end cables in mind.


----------



## dubbcd (Aug 9, 2019)

New King




 by dubbcd on Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org


----------



## pithyginger63

dubbcd said:


> New King
> 
> 
> 
> ...


still massive imo


----------



## Sound Eq (Aug 10, 2019)

olddude said:


> HeadphoneLounge cables aren't all that cheap (well, in comparison to expensive ones, yes, but they are well-made).  Depending on the iem, I prefer copper as well.  I had a couple of Moon Silver Dragons and one Moon Black Dragon.  Liked them all, but they were dependent as well on source and iem.  My last pair of Silver Dragons sounded great on my AK240SS but when I upgraded to an AKSP1000SS they sounded way too sibilant (using an Angie).  Had to go back to the stock JH cable at that point, which I believe was copper.
> 
> Advice?  If you like how it sounds, it's right for you..



its so difficult to know what to buy without auditioning, so i have to rely on reviews, but for sure i like the tonality of copper more, so now its time to hunt down a great choice for a great copper cable , any advice is appreciated especially for khan, which i think needs to have the correct cable to be chosen for it, as its super revealing  and i do not want to add any brightness or make the sound thinner, actually id like to add to it a hint of warmth and more bass presence without affecting the highs at all

as for the tia trio that one i need more tightening in the bass and add more detail to the mids

so confusing what to buy without auditioning, some suggest the effect audio cleopatra for it, but i prefer now to stick to just copper


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> its so difficult to know what to buy without auditioning, so i have to rely on reviews, but for sure i like the tonality of copper more, so now its time to hunt down a great choice for a great copper cable , any advice is appreciated especially for khan, which i think needs to have the correct cable to be chosen for it, as its super revealing  and i do not want to add any brightness or make the sound thinner, actually id like to add to it a hint of warmth and more bass presence without affecting the highs at all
> 
> as for the tia trio that one i need more tightening in the bass and add more detail to the mids
> 
> so confusing what to buy without auditioning, some suggest the effect audio cleopatra for it, but i prefer now to stick to just copper


for the Khan(which I have no experience with) really any gold plated silver cable would do I think, but a thicker gold coating will provide more warmth and body by increasing decay length of transients. I've tried the OC AuX which has a huge subbass.

for the Trio(which I also have no experience with), choose a pure silver cable, though maybe not the Thor series. Agni Mk ii and Effect Audio Cleopatra are good choices. Cleo is the more transparent of the two though both will be unforgiving to a lot of music.


----------



## Sound Eq

pithyginger63 said:


> for the Khan(which I have no experience with) really any gold plated silver cable would do I think, but a thicker gold coating will provide more warmth and body by increasing decay length of transients. I've tried the OC AuX which has a huge subbass.
> 
> for the Trio(which I also have no experience with), choose a pure silver cable, though maybe not the Thor series. Agni Mk ii and Effect Audio Cleopatra are good choices. Cleo is the more transparent of the two though both will be unforgiving to a lot of music.



well i have been trying to contact OC studio as their prices are great, but he barely responds now on facebook. I had much better customer experience with him before, now he is not answering , so with that being said I will not buy from him. Maybe a PW no 5 will be good for the khan or something from raphsodio

as for the agni i will read bout it


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> well i have been trying to contact OC studio as their prices are great, but he barely responds now on facebook. I had much better customer experience with him before, now he is not answering , so with that being said I will not buy from him. Maybe a PW no 5 will be good for the khan or something from raphsodio
> 
> as for the agni i will read bout it


though I do like the PW no 5, it isn't very good technically imo. It doesn't really add much weight or warmth either. maybe you can look to Plussound cables. I haven't tried their gold plated silver or gold plated copper but I have a gold plated hybrid cable from them that is diffusely warm throughout. It doesn't shine in technicalities compared to other cables around its price point but technicalities isn't its main point either and it is another option to consider.


----------



## crabdog

My thoughts on the Ares Audio Kasai, from this promising Singaporean startup:
https://primeaudio.org/ares-audio-kasai-review/


----------



## Sound Eq (Aug 13, 2019)

did anyone try any of those null audio  cables 130-230 usd

like for example the TIBURON 

https://www.null-audio.com/collections/iem-headphone-cable


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> did anyone try any of those null audio  cables 130-230 usd
> 
> like for example the TIBURON
> 
> https://www.null-audio.com/collections/iem-headphone-cable


I havent but I think I can audition them next week maybe idk


----------



## dfung

Would anyone know if there's a distributor that can take custom orders on PW Audio's cables? 
Want to shorten the length to less than 50cm for running and working out.
If not, any other companies to rec? Looking for an OCC copper cable that is very light, thin, and short for under $300


----------



## Deezel177

dfung said:


> Would anyone know if there's a distributor that can take custom orders on PW Audio's cables?
> Want to shorten the length to less than 50cm for running and working out.
> If not, any other companies to rec? Looking for an OCC copper cable that is very light, thin, and short for under $300



You can try contacting Music Sanctuary for that: https://music-sanctuary.com/. PlusSound's X-series is also a great option for light and thin cables, but you'll have to talk to Christian about getting a custom length. Otherwise, I think FiR Audio's cables would be perfect for you. They're lighter and thinner than most aftermarket cables, and you can specify the length you want in their online Cable Designer: https://www.firaudio.com/cables


----------



## buonassi

dfung said:


> Would anyone know if there's a distributor that can take custom orders on PW Audio's cables?
> Want to shorten the length to less than 50cm for running and working out.
> If not, any other companies to rec? Looking for an OCC copper cable that is very light, thin, and short for under $300



triton 4 wire occ 26 awg teflon jacket.  Not the most supple, but nice and thin.  Furthermore, skin oils don't seem to make it harder over time (which I've noticed happens to lots of other cables).  he has a 24.5 awg litz variant that is softer, but it is nowhere as thin, and may be prone to stiffening because it's TPU jacket.  something to consider if using it for exercise.  

http://tritonaudiocables.com/Triton4-OCC-Cable_p_22.html

he'll do custom lengths as well.  Turn around time is stupid fast.   actually, check the inventory online, he may have a "bluetooth" sized cable for armband attachment.


----------



## dfung

Deezel177 said:


> You can try contacting Music Sanctuary for that: https://music-sanctuary.com/. PlusSound's X-series is also a great option for light and thin cables, but you'll have to talk to Christian about getting a custom length. Otherwise, I think FiR Audio's cables would be perfect for you. They're lighter and thinner than most aftermarket cables, and you can specify the length you want in their online Cable Designer: https://www.firaudio.com/cables


Thank you for the rec's.  Love your review on the Satin Audio Griffin and Chimera.  Very informative and really liked the comparisons with EA Ares II. Learned quite a bit as a newbie. I think they are pretty light and thin too based on your review? Curious about your thoughts on Satin Audio ones vs FiR Audio and PlusSound X series if possible.


----------



## Deezel177

dfung said:


> Thank you for the rec's.  Love your review on the Satin Audio Griffin and Chimera.  Very informative and really liked the comparisons with EA Ares II. Learned quite a bit as a newbie. I think they are pretty light and thin too based on your review? Curious about your thoughts on Satin Audio ones vs FiR Audio and PlusSound X series if possible.



Thanks! Satin Audio cables were indeed thin and light, but the FiR Audio and PlusSound ones are even more so; the former because of smaller conductors and the latter because they have half the wire count. I'll have a review of FiR Audio's SPC cable coming soon with very brief, passing comparisons against the Satin Audio Griffin. One thing to note is that FiR Audio's insulation is a tad more chalky/rubbery, so it won't necessarily feel as smooth as the Satin Audio or PlusSound cables. But again, the trade-off is in the FiR Audio cable's lower price point and lighter ergonomics. I don't know what PlusSound's X cables sound like myself, so I'd direct you towards @Wyville's reviews of those cables. This one's for the GPC version: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/plussound-x-series-iem-cable.21922/reviews#review-22112


----------



## dfung

buonassi said:


> triton 4 wire occ 26 awg teflon jacket.  Not the most supple, but nice and thin.  Furthermore, skin oils don't seem to make it harder over time (which I've noticed happens to lots of other cables).  he has a 24.5 awg litz variant that is softer, but it is nowhere as thin, and may be prone to stiffening because it's TPU jacket.  something to consider if using it for exercise.
> 
> http://tritonaudiocables.com/Triton4-OCC-Cable_p_22.html
> 
> he'll do custom lengths as well.  Turn around time is stupid fast.   actually, check the inventory online, he may have a "bluetooth" sized cable for armband attachment.


Thanks for the rec! Good to know the difference between teflon and TPU.  I'm waiting for the BTR5.  Would it be wise to get that first than to buy a cable to know which connection type being used? (Sorry. Very newb to this)


----------



## dfung

Deezel177 said:


> Thanks! Satin Audio cables were indeed thin and light, but the FiR Audio and PlusSound ones are even more so; the former because of smaller conductors and the latter because they have half the wire count. I'll have a review of FiR Audio's SPC cable coming soon with very brief, passing comparisons against the Satin Audio Griffin. One thing to note is that FiR Audio's insulation is a tad more chalky/rubbery, so it won't necessarily feel as smooth as the Satin Audio or PlusSound cables. But again, the trade-off is in the FiR Audio cable's lower price point and lighter ergonomics. I don't know what PlusSound's X cables sound like myself, so I'd direct you towards @Wyville's reviews of those cables. This one's for the GPC version: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/plussound-x-series-iem-cable.21922/reviews#review-22112


This is great. Thanks! I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of flexibility, lightness, and convenience for better sound.  
I was leaning on the Satin Audio Griffin until you've mentioned FiR Audio and PlusSound.  So I look forward to your review!
I see you pick FiR's SPC to compare instead of the pure copper, is it because it's 8 wire?
Newb question if you don't mind - There are other posters here say 8 wire is superior to 4 wire because 8 wire has a wider sound stage with superior vocal and instrumental placement (paraphasing)
And copper wire helps balance out 'bright' IEMs that are high treble with more pronounced bass?


----------



## Deezel177

dfung said:


> This is great. Thanks! I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of flexibility, lightness, and convenience for better sound.
> I was leaning on the Satin Audio Griffin until you've mentioned FiR Audio and PlusSound.  So I look forward to your review!
> I see you pick FiR's SPC to compare instead of the pure copper, is it because it's 8 wire?
> Newb question if you don't mind - There are other posters here say 8 wire is superior to 4 wire because 8 wire has a wider sound stage with superior vocal and instrumental placement (paraphasing)
> And copper wire helps balance out 'bright' IEMs that are high treble with more pronounced bass?



I chose the Griffin to compare it against mostly because they were both entry-level upgrade cables; the first step up from your stock cable. Funnily enough, the FiR Audio cable - the Scorpion, it's called - is the more "copper-like" of the two. It's thick-sounding, low-end- and low-mid-emphasised, and full-bodied. On the other hand, the Griffin is only slightly warm in tone, but very even-handed and balanced throughout. It makes an IEM's bass response *much* tighter and less pronounced. So, if you have a brighter IEM that you want to tone down and make meatier, the Scorpion is the better choice in my opinion. The Griffin is ideal if you want to reduce the boominess of an IEM's bass without altering its tone or warmth too much.

In my experience, the difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is in headroom and space. It's not that the stage expands and instruments became more fanned out or distant. The instruments remain mostly the same in size *and* distance from the listener, but there's now more space between and around them. The analogy I typically use is, "It's the same band playing on stage, but they're now in a bigger venue." It's a more _free_-sounding presentation that doesn't require as much concentration from you to discern all the little details. As a result, smaller nuances come through more effortlessly and the sound isn't as claustrophobic, even at louder volumes. And, since you're not bombarded with _in-your-face_ instruments all the time, your brain now has more bandwidth to locate each element in their respective locations. This is where the superior instrumental placement comes from, I think.


----------



## Wyville

dfung said:


> This is great. Thanks! I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of flexibility, lightness, and convenience for better sound.
> I was leaning on the Satin Audio Griffin until you've mentioned FiR Audio and PlusSound.  So I look forward to your review!
> I see you pick FiR's SPC to compare instead of the pure copper, is it because it's 8 wire?
> Newb question if you don't mind - There are other posters here say 8 wire is superior to 4 wire because 8 wire has a wider sound stage with superior vocal and instrumental placement (paraphasing)
> And copper wire helps balance out 'bright' IEMs that are high treble with more pronounced bass?


The number of wires is just one aspect of it, the thickness of the wire is another. A lot of the 8-wire cables around here are 26 AWG (American Wire Gauge), which makes them quite thick. It also depends on the insulation they use and how the cable is braided, as the FiR cable looks thinner overall (from picture, I have not seen the cable myself). 

For training the PlusSound X-series could be really interesting. It is a very thin cable because it has only two wires and the GPC I reviewed (and @Deezel177 kindly linked to) did not sound any less than the 4-wire cables I have tried. Plus, you can choose a variety of materials for the cable and PlusSound offer lots of customisation options. 

FiR might be interesting as well, as the cable was designed for on-stage use and looks like it is very light. Things like the Y-split can add a surprising amount of weight to the cable and that will start pulling while you are running. A shirt clip will help there, but once your shirt gets wet you might end up constantly re-adjusting. (Mind you, I am quite OCD when I run and everything needs to be perfect.  )


----------



## buonassi

dfung said:


> Thanks for the rec! Good to know the difference between teflon and TPU.  I'm waiting for the BTR5.  Would it be wise to get that first than to buy a cable to know which connection type being used? (Sorry. Very newb to this)


I think the BTR5 (aka M5) only has 3.5mm phone/line out.  https://www.fiio.com/m5_parameters

But I guess you'll have to decide if you want a right angle or straight plug.


----------



## Deezel177

Wyville said:


> The number of wires is just one aspect of it, the thickness of the wire is another. A lot of the 8-wire cables around here are 26 AWG (American Wire Gauge), which makes them quite thick. It also depends on the insulation they use and how the cable is braided, as the FiR cable looks thinner overall (from picture, I have not seen the cable myself).
> 
> For training the PlusSound X-series could be really interesting. It is a very thin cable because it has only two wires and the GPC I reviewed (and @Deezel177 kindly linked to) did not sound any less than the 4-wire cables I have tried. Plus, you can choose a variety of materials for the cable and PlusSound offer lots of customisation options.
> 
> FiR might be interesting as well, as the cable was designed for on-stage use and looks like it is very light. Things like the Y-split can add a surprising amount of weight to the cable and that will start pulling while you are running. A shirt clip will help there, but once your shirt gets wet you might end up constantly re-adjusting. (Mind you, I am quite OCD when I run and everything needs to be perfect.  )



@Wyville raises a very good point here in that it's not only the wire count that matters. The PS, FiR and Satin Audio cables are all 26 AWG, but the insulation they use are all different. Although there's no guarantee as to how that'll affect the sound, it is the reason behind the FiR cable's lightness, flexibility and feel. It also reminds me of a point I forgot to make on my previous post. The difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is _*usually*_ as I had described. But, there can definitely be exceptions to the rule. For example, the 8-wire Effect Audio Leonidas II became fuller-sounding and more impactful, which is the opposite of the expected outcome.


----------



## dfung

Deezel177 said:


> I chose the Griffin to compare it against mostly because they were both entry-level upgrade cables; the first step up from your stock cable. Funnily enough, the FiR Audio cable - the Scorpion, it's called - is the more "copper-like" of the two. It's thick-sounding, low-end- and low-mid-emphasised, and full-bodied. On the other hand, the Griffin is only slightly warm in tone, but very even-handed and balanced throughout. It makes an IEM's bass response *much* tighter and less pronounced. So, if you have a brighter IEM that you want to tone down and make meatier, the Scorpion is the better choice in my opinion. The Griffin is ideal if you want to reduce the boominess of an IEM's bass without altering its tone or warmth too much.


Thanks a bunch for this quick comparison! 
Will definitely consider the Scorpion as I have a pair of rather bright IEMs. Want to get the low end and low-mid emphasized like you said.
This topic on copper also prompts another question out of curiosity if you don't mind - What's your experience on the difference between silver plated copper and pure OCC copper?




Deezel177 said:


> In my experience, the difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is in headroom and space. It's not that the stage expands and instruments became more fanned out or distant. The instruments remain mostly the same in size *and* distance from the listener, but there's now more space between and around them. The analogy I typically use is, "It's the same band playing on stage, but they're now in a bigger venue." It's a more _free_-sounding presentation that doesn't require as much concentration from you to discern all the little details. As a result, smaller nuances come through more effortlessly and the sound isn't as claustrophobic, even at louder volumes. And, since you're not bombarded with _in-your-face_ instruments all the time, your brain now has more bandwidth to locate each element in their respective locations. This is where the superior instrumental placement comes from, I think.





Deezel177 said:


> @Wyville raises a very good point here in that it's not only the wire count that matters. The PS, FiR and Satin Audio cables are all 26 AWG, but the insulation they use are all different. Although there's no guarantee as to how that'll affect the sound, it is the reason behind the FiR cable's lightness, flexibility and feel. It also reminds me of a point I forgot to make on my previous post. The difference between a 4- and 8-wire cable is _*usually*_ as I had described. But, there can definitely be exceptions to the rule. For example, the 8-wire Effect Audio Leonidas II became fuller-sounding and more impactful, which is the opposite of the expected outcome.



Another much appreciated detailed explanation. I find this kind of info is hard to come by.
One point I find that would welcome clarification - We're technically talking about the higher number of cores generally leading to more headroom and space?
Because I've been assuming 1 core = 1 wire until I've read @Wyville's review which the GPC interestingly fit 7 cores into 2 wires.  It still had a wide sound stage and nice amount of air as mentioned in his review.
So how I'm interpreting this is it's dependent on the number of cores, not necessarily number of wires.
Please correct me if I'm wrong where cores affect the sound differently than wires.


----------



## dfung

Wyville said:


> The number of wires is just one aspect of it, the thickness of the wire is another. A lot of the 8-wire cables around here are 26 AWG (American Wire Gauge), which makes them quite thick. It also depends on the insulation they use and how the cable is braided, as the FiR cable looks thinner overall (from picture, I have not seen the cable myself).
> 
> For training the PlusSound X-series could be really interesting. It is a very thin cable because it has only two wires and the GPC I reviewed (and @Deezel177 kindly linked to) did not sound any less than the 4-wire cables I have tried. Plus, you can choose a variety of materials for the cable and PlusSound offer lots of customisation options.
> 
> FiR might be interesting as well, as the cable was designed for on-stage use and looks like it is very light. Things like the Y-split can add a surprising amount of weight to the cable and that will start pulling while you are running. A shirt clip will help there, but once your shirt gets wet you might end up constantly re-adjusting. (Mind you, I am quite OCD when I run and everything needs to be perfect.  )


Thanks! So that's what AWG means. Good to know that insulation and how it's braided should be considered.
The GPC has aluminum Y splitters. Hope that reduces weight.
(I'm like that myself when I run. Everything has to be in place and order before I start. )
It would be great if there was a review between FiR's Scorpian vs PlusSound's GPC. 
The GPC's cheapest option with just copper is equally compelling at $150.
Difficult choices to make here....


----------



## dfung (Aug 16, 2019)

buonassi said:


> triton 4 wire occ 26 awg teflon jacket.  Not the most supple, but nice and thin.  Furthermore, skin oils don't seem to make it harder over time (which I've noticed happens to lots of other cables).  he has a 24.5 awg litz variant that is softer, but it is nowhere as thin, and may be prone to stiffening because it's TPU jacket.  something to consider if using it for exercise.
> 
> http://tritonaudiocables.com/Triton4-OCC-Cable_p_22.html
> 
> he'll do custom lengths as well.  Turn around time is stupid fast.   actually, check the inventory online, he may have a "bluetooth" sized cable for armband attachment.



Would you happen to have a review on these Triton cables you can link to?
Would like to compare the details of their sound to others mentioned here to make an informed decision...




buonassi said:


> I think the BTR5 (aka M5) only has 3.5mm phone/line out.  https://www.fiio.com/m5_parameters
> 
> But I guess you'll have to decide if you want a right angle or straight plug.



What makes you say that? I'm curious.  I briefly compared the basic specs between the M5 and the BTR5 - Besides the two having the same bluetooth chip. They have different DAC chips and output impedance.  The BTR5 has a balanced 2.5mm output and a 3.5mm single ended output.


----------



## Wyville

dfung said:


> Thanks! So that's what AWG means. Good to know that insulation and how it's braided should be considered.
> The GPC has aluminum Y splitters. Hope that reduces weight.
> (I'm like that myself when I run. Everything has to be in place and order before I start. )
> It would be great if there was a review between FiR's Scorpian vs PlusSound's GPC.
> ...


The X-Series y-split is indeed quite light and should not give any problems while running. I had considered buying the Final E5000 for training and replacing its cable with an X-Series because I think it would work perfectly for me. Never got around to it, as I have been happy with the stock E4000.


----------



## mvvRAZ

On the topic of FiR, the cable is very thin (as thin as some of my 4-wires), feels great to use, no microphonics or any issues with the ergonomics either. My only negative would be the look, as I really like those thick 8 wires, whereas the FiR cable is more function over vanity. 

I am placing an order for two Silver + Gold Poetic Series from Plussound today, and it should be here in a little over 2 weeks, so I can comment on those then. They're supposed to be really, really durable so it might fit your needs


----------



## Deezel177

dfung said:


> Thanks a bunch for this quick comparison!
> Will definitely consider the Scorpion as I have a pair of rather bright IEMs. Want to get the low end and low-mid emphasized like you said.
> This topic on copper also prompts another question out of curiosity if you don't mind - What's your experience on the difference between silver plated copper and pure OCC copper?
> 
> ...



Well, regarding OCC v. SPC copper, it’s really difficult to say. For one thing, I have very little experience with SPC cables.  But, more importantly, it’s really difficult to nail down sound to just the materials. For example, I’ve heard both bright- and warm-sounding copper cables, and the same goes for silver, silver-plated gold, etc. I think it’s a lot more important to look at the bigger picture than just the materials.

With regards to core count or wire count, it is a common misconception. I too have only recently learned about the distinction between the two. Inside a single Litz wire are groups of tiny conductors wrapped around an insulator. The insulator can be cotton-based, Kevlar, etc. Then, inside each group are tiny wires wrapped around a core. It's akin to many cells making tissue, and tissue making muscle, etc. Since the GPC wires that PlusSound use are Type 6 Litz, there are seven groups (and therefore, seven cores) inside each wire wrapped around the insulator. I believe Effect Audio have six or seven groups as well inside their latest releases, and they've taken it a step further by altering the number *and* size of the strands of wire inside those groups. So yeah, there's *a lot* you can do with cables. 



mvvRAZ said:


> On the topic of FiR, the cable is very thin (as thin as some of my 4-wires), feels great to use, no microphonics or any issues with the ergonomics either. My only negative would be the look, as I really like those thick 8 wires, whereas the FiR cable is more function over vanity.
> 
> I am placing an order for two Silver + Gold Poetic Series from Plussound today, and it should be here in a little over 2 weeks, so I can comment on those then. They're supposed to be really, really durable so it might fit your needs



Yup, function over form is something I mention in my Scorpion review.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> Well, regarding OCC v. SPC copper, it’s really difficult to say. For one thing, I have very little experience with SPC cables.  But, more importantly, it’s really difficult to nail down sound to just the materials. For example, I’ve heard both bright- and warm-sounding copper cables, and the same goes for silver, silver-plated gold, etc. I think it’s a lot more important to look at the bigger picture than just the materials.
> 
> With regards to core count or wire count, it is a common misconception. I too have only recently learned about the distinction between the two. Inside a single Litz wire are groups of tiny conductors wrapped around an insulator. The insulator can be cotton-based, Kevlar, etc. Then, inside each group are tiny wires wrapped around a core. It's akin to many cells making tissue, and tissue making muscle, etc. Since the GPC wires that PlusSound use are Type 6 Litz, there are seven groups (and therefore, seven cores) inside each wire wrapped around the insulator. I believe Effect Audio have six or seven groups as well inside their latest releases, and they've taken it a step further by altering the number *and* size of the strands of wire inside those groups. So yeah, there's *a lot* you can do with cables.
> 
> ...



On a side note, your review of the X8 silver + gold is making me really hate you.... Your impressions of IEMs and products tend to be quite consistent with mine and that cable at that price is looking rather great. 

Have you had the chance to play around with any of the Forza Audioworks cables? I have a few from them and absolutely love them, absolutely exceptional at a rather silly low price - I am receiving an 8 wire Silver and Copper fusion next week, at a price of 250 euros. The regular 4 wire version is around 160 if I remember right and that sounds at least as good as the Eros II if not better. Ergonomics are absolutely amazing too, some of the finest build quality I've had the chance of experiencing


----------



## Deezel177

mvvRAZ said:


> On a side note, your review of the X8 silver + gold is making me really hate you.... Your impressions of IEMs and products tend to be quite consistent with mine and that cable at that price is looking rather great.
> 
> Have you had the chance to play around with any of the Forza Audioworks cables? I have a few from them and absolutely love them, absolutely exceptional at a rather silly low price - I am receiving an 8 wire Silver and Copper fusion next week, at a price of 250 euros. The regular 4 wire version is around 160 if I remember right and that sounds at least as good as the Eros II if not better. Ergonomics are absolutely amazing too, some of the finest build quality I've had the chance of experiencing



Haha! I reviewed the *Exo* Silver+Gold, actually. The X8 was reviewed by our lovely @PinkyPowers. You have him to thank/blame.  Forza were pretty big when I first started out in the hobby, but I haven't seen them in a while, unfortunately. I'll definitely check out what they're up to later.

Meanwhile, my FiR Audio Accessories Suite review (including the Scorpion) is up now on THL!

*FiR Audio’s Accessory Suite – The Headphone VAC Jr., The Cable Tester and Scorpion Cable*


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> Haha! I reviewed the *Exo* Silver+Gold, actually. The X8 was reviewed by our lovely @PinkyPowers. You have him to thank/blame.  Forza were pretty big when I first started out in the hobby, but I haven't seen them in a while, unfortunately. I'll definitely check out what they're up to later.
> 
> Meanwhile, my FiR Audio Accessories Suite review (including the Scorpion) is up now on THL!
> 
> ...


Blame, definitely blame. 

I saw the review, but I have the VAC and the Cable so I'm pretty covered there  

I think Forza will be making a comeback pretty soon as Matthew told me they're working on some pure silver IEM cables


----------



## Sound Eq

reading this thread is so overwhelming, and barely one can make a decision of what is great price performance wise as the info is so much in this thread

but of course its all appreciated

I think from reading so much here, I guess I will go with effect audio cleopatra and try it on 64audio tia trio

the most difficult one for me make a purchase decision is the khan, as I need to add if possible more bass and add a hint of warmth if possible, but not add any more details as the khan is very detailed as is. Simply I am just not able to choose which one to buy that does not cost an arm and a leg, as to me the khan is my favorite iem period, and I want to take to the next level .


----------



## buonassi

dfung said:


> Would you happen to have a review on these Triton cables you can link to?
> Would like to compare the details of their sound to others mentioned here to make an informed decision...
> 
> 
> ...




Sadly I can't find any reviews. He's an independent cable maker with sort of a cult following. I have two of his cables and I'm still evaluating the most recent purchase I made. I'm not suggesting these will hang with the big boys, but for your use case may be a safe buy. Especially the Teflon coating. I found that pure copper 26 Teflon cable to sound good. With various IEMs it trounced the plastics one or stock 64 audio cables while not being overly warm at all.  This was not the case with a plussound exo 4wire copper which bloated things a bit in comparison. It also measures very good at about 0.3 ohms vs 1.6 ohms plastics one.  

Regarding the btr5 and m5, I thought they were the same. Or rather, that it was rumored to be called the btr5 but ended up with m5 moniker. My apologies on this guys and thanks for the correction.


----------



## dfung

buonassi said:


> Sadly I can't find any reviews. He's an independent cable maker with sort of a cult following. I have two of his cables and I'm still evaluating the most recent purchase I made. I'm not suggesting these will hang with the big boys, but for your use case may be a safe buy. Especially the Teflon coating. I found that pure copper 26 Teflon cable to sound good. With various IEMs it trounced the plastics one or stock 64 audio cables while not being overly warm at all.  This was not the case with a plussound exo 4wire copper which bloated things a bit in comparison. It also measures very good at about 0.3 ohms vs 1.6 ohms plastics one.
> 
> Regarding the btr5 and m5, I thought they were the same. Or rather, that it was rumored to be called the btr5 but ended up with m5 moniker. My apologies on this guys and thanks for the correction.


Interesting that Triton is not mainstream but still popular and nobody puts up a review (Not saying I don't believe you. It will help a ton for somebody to shed light for any potential buyers).  
They do look light and thin from the pictures.  Good to know that they perform more favorably to Plussound's Exo 4 wire. While at an attractive starting price of $110.

Hope somebody review them soon. If they're quite decent and at such an affordable price, someone should sing their praise in detail!


----------



## Sound Eq

audio123 said:


> For those who are interested in Luminox Audio cables, here are my reviews on them! Enjoy!
> 
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/luminox-audiokilowatt/
> https://audio123blog.wordpress.com/2018/03/14/luminox-audio-day-for-night/



i have been trying to look on the net for a shop that sells The Shadow and ships internationally


----------



## audio123

Sound Eq said:


> i have been trying to look on the net for a shop that sells The Shadow and ships internationally


You may want to contact them directly. Cheers!


----------



## dcime (Aug 20, 2019)

audio123 said:


> You may want to contact them directly. Cheers!


What is the best way to connect Samsung Galaxy Tab S4 USB-C to my micro USB Monolith THX DAC/AMP please? Direct USB-C to micro USB no adapters cable? Or OTG from the source? Please advise thank you.


----------



## audio123

dcime said:


> What is the best way to connect Samsung Galaxy Tab S4 USB-C to my micro USB Monolith THX DAC/AMP please? Direct USB-C to micro USB no adapters cable? Or OTG from the source? Please advise thank you.


OTG. Cheers!


----------



## dcime

audio123 said:


> OTG. Cheers!


Thanks! I would think a direct connect would be better. You know USB C & Micro USB terminated each end. No?


----------



## ayang02 (Aug 21, 2019)

dcime said:


> Thanks! I would think a direct connect would be better. You know USB C & Micro USB terminated each end. No?



There are type c (host) to micro USB OTG cables like this:
https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation-Braided-480Mbps-Compatible-Android/dp/B0744BKDRD

Theoretically this cable should work for your setup.

Edit: there's also Fiio's CL06 cable which seems to be a safer bet


----------



## dcime

ayang02 said:


> There are type c (host) to micro USB OTG cables like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation-Braided-480Mbps-Compatible-Android/dp/B0744BKDRD
> 
> Theoretically this cable should work for your setup.
> ...


Yes you are correct. Thank you.


----------



## Sound Eq

audio123 said:


> You may want to contact them directly. Cheers!


tried that but they simply do not reply


----------



## audio123

Sound Eq said:


> tried that but they simply do not reply


I found this link, https://www.sk-hk.com/products/luminox-audio-shadow. Not sure if they ship internationally though. Cheers!


----------



## Sound Eq

audio123 said:


> I found this link, https://www.sk-hk.com/products/luminox-audio-shadow. Not sure if they ship internationally though. Cheers!


nah they don't


----------



## edwardsean (Aug 21, 2019)

*The Horus—A Brief Revew: All that glitters isn’t gold—but this is*

I recently auditioned the _Leo II, Leo II-Octa_, and the _Horus _from_ Effect Audio_. If you asked me at the start which cable I would end up with, I would’ve said the Octa. The Leo II was a revelation and I expected that the Octa would only provide more. Also, I adore the aesthetics of the Leos. The palladium silver wire is drop dead gorgeous. It’s like other beautiful silver cables only with the visual contrast turned up, and the Y-splitter is all spartan elegance. The Horus was a late edition into the trial. I didn’t want to spend that much for a 4 wire cable and I personally dislike the gilded look of it.

But, here I am listening to the Horus while the Leos are making their way back to the dealer....

The reviews I read all talked about how Horus had better clarity and detail and that the Leo II was more full, but you really had to dig to find if they thought one was better. And, EA can charge whatever they want, but of a truth, I mildly resented the price difference at first. Early impressions had me feeling that they were of equal caliber and a choice would just come down to taste. The Octa seemed to better justify its cost by having the best of both in this regard. It was more clear than Leo II and more full than the Horus. It also added increased density and impact.

Why then the Horus?

Forgive me for getting broad and super pretentious for a moment, but you know that cliche quote from Michelango? You know, he said that the sculpture is already in the marble he just has to chisel away all the superfluous material. I feel this way about audio. The music is already there in the signal you just have to cut away all the noise. The Horus does a better job of rendering pure music than any cable I’ve ever heard.

The Leos are more full and the Horus is more clear but that isn’t really the whole story. The fullness of the Leo and the density of the Octa both provide an enormously appealing sound. But, it almost seems to me like additions to the music imparted by the cable. The Horus sounds just as full and dense to my ears, but one that is achieved by subtracting all that isn’t music. A certain sonic haze is dissolved and all the natural, voluptuous contours of the music are revealed. I wouldn’t frame the difference between the Leos and the Horus in terms of fullness and clarity as much as intelligibility. The Horus is simply more articulate, extracting the most actual music encased in the audio. Doubling the conductor count can do many things, but delivering this kind of musical purity depends on the base metallurgy and design at the molecular level. Don’t get me wrong, both Leos are spectacular, spectacular! I would’ve been absolutely thrilled with them—if I had never heard the Horus.

I know many would question the worthiness of this kind of invesment into a cable, including many audiophiles. However, the Horus fulfills a main goal of audiophile level sound quality: connection to the music itself. It does this with a zero footprint and is transferable to any of my mobile and home systems. If I let my mind roam over the equivalent cost in static components it would take to achieve this result I am more than satisfied.

A huge thank you to Paul at EA and especially Andrew at Musicteck. If you don’t know, Musicteck has an audition policy without restocking fees. i would never have found the Horus without it, as it took time to understand in quiet conditions with my own system.

https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/effect-audio


----------



## mrgray

super cool edwardsean.  thankyou.  may i ask what iem you were using and also have you heard the pw1950s say for comparison?  i run 1950 and whilst it is thrilling, it definitely chops and changes sound so something more honest is up my alley big time!


----------



## edwardsean

I auditioned the cables with my LCDi4. I haven’t heard the PWAudio offerings. I know so many people hold them in such high regard, but my bias is always toward silver. 

I do believe that the Horus is an amazingly honest cable. It has a true transparency with a clarity that is smooth and full not thin and bright.


----------



## Deezel177

Hey folks! Here's a review for one of my recent favourites: Han Sound Audio's 8-wire Aegis. It combines spaciousness, separation and imaging precision with organic, mellow warmth like no other cable I've experienced before, and all at a _still_ reasonable price compared to today's high-end offerings. Enjoy! 

*Han Sound Audio 8-wire Aegis - A Concerto of the Heart*

​


----------



## SeeSax

Another masterful creation by David at Triton Audio cables. This uses high-end Cardas copper wire and provides an awesome holographic-like sound on the U18T. The Labkable Titan Au I had on previously is warmer and more organic, but this takes detail into new heights. I think this will be my permanent pairing (which means at least one week). 


 

-Collin-


----------



## twister6

SeeSax said:


> Another masterful creation by David at Triton Audio cables. This uses high-end Cardas copper wire and provides an awesome holographic-like sound on the U18T. The Labkable Titan Au I had on previously is warmer and more organic, but this takes detail into new heights. I think this will be my permanent pairing (which means at least one week).
> 
> 
> 
> -Collin-



Collin, you can't bring up Cardas copper wire without offering how it compares to 1960, bud


----------



## SeeSax

twister6 said:


> Collin, you can't bring up Cardas copper wire without offering how it compares to 1960, bud



Well I had the 1960 on the tour a few months ago, but let's be honest, I'm already not even skilled enough to do a cable review or comparison...let alone by memory!

I think it sounds equally good from what I remember  

-Collin-


----------



## Deezel177

SeeSax said:


> Another masterful creation by David at Triton Audio cables. This uses high-end Cardas copper wire and provides an awesome holographic-like sound on the U18T. The Labkable Titan Au I had on previously is warmer and more organic, but this takes detail into new heights. I think this will be my permanent pairing (which means at least one week).
> 
> 
> 
> -Collin-



That Eidolic hardware is ridiculously good-looking.


----------



## MinMay

crabdog said:


> My thoughts on the Ares Audio Kasai, from this promising Singaporean startup:
> https://primeaudio.org/ares-audio-kasai-review/



Based on your recommendation, I placed an order  .  Now, the waiting game


----------



## singleended5863

crabdog said:


> My thoughts on the Ares Audio Kasai, from this promising Singaporean startup:
> https://primeaudio.org/ares-audio-kasai-review/



May I ask which IEM/CIEM are you using with Kasai? You said it has warm and robust sound but the details are still there? Thanks.


----------



## crabdog

MinMay said:


> Based on your recommendation, I placed an order  .  Now, the waiting game


Nice! I hope you enjoy it. I'm not sure how much longer they will be around as the Yuki just got discontinued in preparation for some new upcoming models.



singleended5863 said:


> May I ask which IEM/CIEM are you using with Kasai? You said it has warm and robust sound but the details are still there? Thanks.


I was testing with the ones mentioned in my review (Moondrop KXXS, CA FIBAE Black and Fearless S8f). Plus I also use it with my M-Fidelity SA-50.


----------



## Wyville

SeeSax said:


> Another masterful creation by David at Triton Audio cables. This uses high-end Cardas copper wire and provides an awesome holographic-like sound on the U18T. The Labkable Titan Au I had on previously is warmer and more organic, but this takes detail into new heights. I think this will be my permanent pairing (which means at least one week).
> 
> 
> 
> -Collin-


Ooh, almost missed this post... Looks very nice! David is doing some great work at the moment.


----------



## proedros

Erfan Elahi said:


> *I am seeking cable upgrade suggestion for maximum optimization of the Zeus*. At the moment I have paired the EA Thor Silver II. I have been thinking of getting the Wagnus Frosty Sheep Mastering edition. Other suggestions will be helpful too.



Zeus XR user here , if you are on a budget  the *EA Lionheart (4w)* works very well with Zeus , beefs up the sound while retaining Zeus' amazing clarity/imaging/separation - and i prefer it over aresii(8w) without hesitation

if you have money to spend , i hear that *pw 1960s (2w)* is amazing with zeus , if i win a lottery ticket i am buying it asap (for now i am dead broke , so Lionheart is great no need to be greedy/ungrateful)

Zeus is fantastic , i don't find it lean and i am pairing it with WM1A which is kinda neutralish dap with a touch of warmth

good luck with your cable search


----------



## klash

Hi. I'm looking to buy a cable for my Solaris. Any recommendations?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hi folks I am not an expert in high end cable, could you tell me please the best brands that are available on the market right now?
I am looking to see if its really worth to upgrade from the ier-z1r stock cable to something to reach the sealing lets say but at a reasonable price to 

I pair them with my wm1z , I wonder if I should go silver or copper?  any how could some folks share some experience and stories with cable rolling for my sony's?

Thank you in advance


----------



## Erfan Elahi

proedros said:


> Zeus XR user here , if you are on a budget  the *EA Lionheart (4w)* works very well with Zeus , beefs up the sound while retaining Zeus' amazing clarity/imaging/separation - and i prefer it over aresii(8w) without hesitation
> 
> if you have money to spend , i hear that *pw 1960s (2w)* is amazing with zeus , if i win a lottery ticket i am buying it asap (for now i am dead broke , so Lionheart is great no need to be greedy/ungrateful)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion. Actually the harshness was due to less burn-in of Zeus, wrongly paired cable - Thor silver cable and Zeus is already bright. So I ended up buying the Frosty Sheep Mastering Edition. This is my first high-end cable purchase - and I am a realizer - cable does change sound ! It added a silky signature with retaining micro details, a fine smooth blend on the mids and highs, not much additions to the lows, some expansion in the soundstage, but not much airiness though. I feel I like I was touching a rough wood which has been burnished now. Especially Vinyl rips are so enjoyable now 

I am quite happy with it, but still just of curiosity and experiment, now I am so interested to try many other cables to explore signature alteration - good pairing or worse paring !  So I am keeping in mind - *pw 1960s *and Rhapsodio copper wizard mk2 for next try out.


----------



## edwardsean

I've been reading up on the newest Effect Audio offering: Cleopatra. 

Has anyone compared the Cleopatra to the Horus?

They both feature multi sized stranding, but Cleo also adds golden ratio dispersed bundles. From the descriptions they seem to share a similar preference for greater clarity among the EA line, while retaining the smooth and detailed signature of the house sound. 

If you've heard both, can you describe the differences? I take it that Cleo has more sub bass rumble.


----------



## greyscale75

Have Sennheiser ie 800 s iem. Need an extension cable so to reach my dac without buds falling out of ears. Would prefer a Pentaconn 4.4mm cable AND a 2.5mm balanced cable. Any leads appreciated.


----------



## Sound Eq (Sep 8, 2019)

i am thinking bout buying the labkable pandora, to see what all the fuss is about high end cables, now if i feel nothing of great margin improvement is achieved on a 1000+ USD cable, then I will sell it for 70% its retail price, I hope selling such cable will not take for ever on head fi , once i sell it I will just go cheap chifi cable all the way 

It would be great to have a pre-buyer for pandora in case I will not feel its worth the price I paid 

It will be used on my khan and 64audio tia trio, I really hope to test for once those insanely priced cables to put the matter at rest for myself


----------



## dubbcd

You can always try out and test high end cables in world wide HiFi show.




Sound Eq said:


> i am thinking bout buying the labkable pandora, to see what all the fuss is about high end cables, now if i feel nothing of great margin improvement is achieved on a 1000+ USD cable, then I will sell it for 70% its retail price, I hope selling such cable will not take for ever on head fi , once i sell it I will just go cheap chifi cable all the way
> 
> It would be great to have a pre-buyer for pandora in case I will not feel its worth the price I paid
> 
> It will be used on my khan and 64audio tia trio, I really hope to test for once those insanely priced cables to put the matter at rest for myself


----------



## SeeSax

Sound Eq said:


> i am thinking bout buying the labkable pandora, to see what all the fuss is about high end cables, now if i feel nothing of great margin improvement is achieved on a 1000+ USD cable, then I will sell it for 70% its retail price, I hope selling such cable will not take for ever on head fi , once i sell it I will just go cheap chifi cable all the way
> 
> It would be great to have a pre-buyer for pandora in case I will not feel its worth the price I paid
> 
> It will be used on my khan and 64audio tia trio, I really hope to test for once those insanely priced cables to put the matter at rest for myself



I own and love the Pandora, but with your goal being a great margin of improvement over a stock cable I am not sure Pandora would be the best choice. It's a wonderful cable, but it's very neutral and doesn't color the sound. Therefore while there are obvious sound quality improvements, I feel it's a little harder to detect and you may not feel $1,000 worth of enhancement. Something like the 1960s four wire gave me that "wow" factor a little more than the Pandora. I guess it's tough to say really - everyone prioritizes the improvements of cables differently. I use them to tweak the sound a little in the direction I want to go on IEMs that I love. It won't be a night and day difference. 

I think you could probably sell the Pandora for $700 in fairly short order, assuming it's 2-pin. 

Like @dubbcd mentioned - is there any chance you can audition the cable before buying? Good luck on the journey  

-Collin-


----------



## mvvRAZ

Sound Eq said:


> i am thinking bout buying the labkable pandora, to see what all the fuss is about high end cables, now if i feel nothing of great margin improvement is achieved on a 1000+ USD cable, then I will sell it for 70% its retail price, I hope selling such cable will not take for ever on head fi , once i sell it I will just go cheap chifi cable all the way
> 
> It would be great to have a pre-buyer for pandora in case I will not feel its worth the price I paid
> 
> It will be used on my khan and 64audio tia trio, I really hope to test for once those insanely priced cables to put the matter at rest for myself


Labkable are generally speaking very active and show up to loads of audio shows. If you have some near you or that you can attend it might be worth a shot


----------



## Sound Eq (Sep 8, 2019)

SeeSax said:


> I own and love the Pandora, but with your goal being a great margin of improvement over a stock cable I am not sure Pandora would be the best choice. It's a wonderful cable, but it's very neutral and doesn't color the sound. Therefore while there are obvious sound quality improvements, I feel it's a little harder to detect and you may not feel $1,000 worth of enhancement. Something like the 1960s four wire gave me that "wow" factor a little more than the Pandora. I guess it's tough to say really - everyone prioritizes the improvements of cables differently. I use them to tweak the sound a little in the direction I want to go on IEMs that I love. It won't be a night and day difference.
> 
> I think you could probably sell the Pandora for $700 in fairly short order, assuming it's 2-pin.
> 
> ...


great point to consider, so i will buy 1960 and see what happens, and reading bout it i think it will suit my noble khan more than pandora, as for auditioning that is not possible where i live otherwise i would have done it long time ago

as for 1960 look wise i find it just average, even to me they are not attractive at all, it just reminds me of my cheapest audeze cable, i was even thinking why not just get a cable maker made me a cable made from cardas or neotech which are known quality cables and those can be bought for max 400 usd for a 4 wire version, but i assume there is way more than just wire material in making an iem cable sound great


----------



## hbcke

Is Labkable Samurai III elevate the mids? or lows? or highs? which one?


----------



## pithyginger63

Sound Eq said:


> i am thinking bout buying the labkable pandora, to see what all the fuss is about high end cables, now if i feel nothing of great margin improvement is achieved on a 1000+ USD cable, then I will sell it for 70% its retail price, I hope selling such cable will not take for ever on head fi , once i sell it I will just go cheap chifi cable all the way
> 
> It would be great to have a pre-buyer for pandora in case I will not feel its worth the price I paid
> 
> It will be used on my khan and 64audio tia trio, I really hope to test for once those insanely priced cables to put the matter at rest for myself


you should be getting a pure silver cable first


----------



## Sound Eq (Sep 9, 2019)

whats the difference between

https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/pw-audio-monile-shielding-iem-cable-4-wire

and this

https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/pw-audio-monile-feat-60s-iem-cable-4-wire

also are those the 4 wired 8 connector version

the price difference between that store and other stores i guess is big, if those are the 4 wired 8 connectors versions


----------



## SeeSax

Sound Eq said:


> whats the difference between
> 
> https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/pw-audio-monile-shielding-iem-cable-4-wire
> 
> ...



I'm not too much help here, but I know the "Monile" series are new and share some similarities with the original Century series 1960. The difference in what you linked is that one has shielding and one does not I believe. 

Here's a little discussion on the PW Audio thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pw-audio-cables-discussion-thread.893028/page-4#post-14971691

Good luck with your new cable quest  

-Collin-


----------



## Roasty

Hi guys

If I wanna have:
Clearer, airy, sparkly highs 
Tightened, punchy bass 

Is it the general concensus that an all silver cable will do the job?

Am looking for an aftermarket cable to pair with my 64 audio A12T and ibasso dx220. Likely will get an amp 8 module. 

Am considering
Norne Audio silvergarde sx
Lavricable

Not looking at anything too exorbitant like pw1950/1960 etc

Was recommended Dita Oslo, kimera, xerxes but I think these are all combination wires?


----------



## Deezel177

Roasty said:


> Hi guys
> 
> If I wanna have:
> Clearer, airy, sparkly highs
> ...



For the changes you’re looking for, I’d highly recommend PlusSound’s Exo Silver+Gold.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> For the changes you’re looking for, I’d highly recommend PlusSound’s Exo Silver+Gold.


I can second that, I was looking for similar changes to my Noir and U18t and the Plussound silver+gold cables did an excellent job (I picked the Poetic series however)


----------



## Roasty

Thanks for the recommendation, guys. 
Till looking for iem cables, I never knew they made a silver/gold combo. My usual headphone cables have always been silver or copper alone.
Will head down to music sanctuary and see if they have the silver/gold combo available for audition.


----------



## Tristy

Hi, I’m looking to buy a silver based cable for the campfire Solaris and I’ve been looking at the effect audio cleopatra or the Pw audio Loki 8 wire. Does anyone have any experience with either and will be able to provide any feedback? I’ve found the 8 wire variant of the Loki for substantially less than the cleopatra but the cleopatra seems to have all of the attributes I’m looking for (sub bass emphasis, extended low and top end and better separation / details) compared to the copper counterpart


----------



## Number9redreD

Thought this was the best place to show off the new addition to the family


----------



## MinMay (Sep 18, 2019)

Finally, I received Ares Audio cable from Singapore.  I'm not an expert in sound, but I can say the cable build is superb.  I love the packaging.  The cable over the ear is light, flexible, and comfortable, sometimes I don't know if it's hanging over my ear.

Switching back and forth in comparison with the cheaper ISN S8, I can tell there is a difference.  The vocal sounds louder and more up front.  And the bass has a tight punch.  I'm not an expert in sound, but I hear a difference.

I'm very happy with my purchase from Ares Audio.


----------



## Toolman

Look out for the improved Dita OSLO cable...ergonomically much better than the original and I was told the cable internal are also much improved. Still Japanese made.

Have not a chance for A/B comparison other than it matched the new XLS beautifully


----------



## crabdog

MinMay said:


> Finally, I received Ares Audio cable from Singapore.  I'm not an expert in sound, but I can say the cable build is superb.  I love the packaging.  The cable over the ear is light, flexible, and comfortable, sometimes I don't know if it's hanging over my ear.
> 
> Switching back and forth in comparison with the cheaper ISN S8, I can tell there is a difference.  The vocal sounds louder and more up front.  And the bass has a tight punch.  I'm not an expert in sound, but I hear a difference.
> 
> I'm very happy with my purchase from Ares Audio.


Glad to hear you're enjoying the Kasai. By the way, is your nickname related to Robotech/Macross?


----------



## Erfan Elahi

MinMay said:


> Finally, I received Ares Audio cable from Singapore.  I'm not an expert in sound, but I can say the cable build is superb.  I love the packaging.  The cable over the ear is light, flexible, and comfortable, sometimes I don't know if it's hanging over my ear.
> 
> Switching back and forth in comparison with the cheaper ISN S8, I can tell there is a difference.  The vocal sounds louder and more up front.  And the bass has a tight punch.  I'm not an expert in sound, but I hear a difference.
> 
> I'm very happy with my purchase from Ares Audio.


Is that an A6t?


----------



## MinMay

Erfan Elahi said:


> Is that an A6t?



I’m using A4t


----------



## MinMay

crabdog said:


> Glad to hear you're enjoying the Kasai. By the way, is your nickname related to Robotech/Macross?



Yes


----------



## mungster

Just ordered the penon leo 2 pin. Anybody know which pin is positive and negative? My iem is flush 2pin and seems i can plug the cable in either way. there's a left and right markings but no positive or negative marking on pins.


----------



## audio123

mungster said:


> Just ordered the penon leo 2 pin. Anybody know which pin is positive and negative? My iem is flush 2pin and seems i can plug the cable in either way. there's a left and right markings but no positive or negative marking on pins.


It's the same as the image I attached below.


----------



## Barra (Sep 26, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Hi guys
> 
> If I wanna have:
> Clearer, airy, sparkly highs
> ...


My best pairing with my A12t wasn't the 1950 or 1960, it was the 1980 in that PWAudio rarified space for those willing to pay for that incredible sound boost. It did exactly what you are looking for. I am hosting the DITA OSLO tour right now and even though I didn't try it directly with the 12t, i can guess that it would nicely fit your requirements as well. The other cable that impressed me with the 12t is the Han Sound Audio Redcore that Music Sanctuary has at about $450 US. The Redcore is a true hybrid with both separate pure copper and pure silver cables that while offering that silver tightening and airiness that you are looking for, maintained the texture and feeling rather than going too far analytical. The Redcore was very versatile sounding wonderful with all my CIEMs where many of the other cables paired well with only some. Have not heard the PlusSound to compare. i love my Norne Silvergarde, but it is for my HEX full-sized headphones - Norne seems to do everything right.


----------



## Roasty (Sep 26, 2019)

Barra said:


> My best pairing with my A12t wasn't the 1950 or 1960, it was the 1980 in that PWAudio rarified space for those willing to pay for that incredible sound boost. It did exactly what you are looking for. I am hosting the DITA OSLO tour right now and even though I didn't try it directly with the 12t, i can guess that it would nicely fit your requirements as well. The other cable that impressed me with the 12t is the Han Sound Audio Redcore that Music Sanctuary has at about $450 US. The Redcore is a true hybrid with both separate pure copper and pure silver cables that while offering that silver tightening and airiness that you are looking for, maintained the texture and feeling rather than going too far analytical. The Redcore was very versatile sounding wonderful with all my CIEMs where many of the other cables paired well with only some. Have not heard the PlusSound to compare. i love my Norne Silvergarde, but it is for my HEX full-sized headphones - Norne seems to do everything right.



Thanks very much for your input!
I did manage to try the 1950 with the A12T, but to be completely honest I didn't really like the sound.. Seemed to smooth things out too much and there was some over emphasis on mids to midbass region. Perhaps the 1950 is better suited for A18T as many here have commented/praised.

I did not get to try the 1960 or 1980 though. I did manage to try a Dita cable (not the Oslo) but thought it comparable to stock.

In the end, I placed an order for a PlusSound X6 silver+gold cable as well as a Norne Silvergarde SX. Am still waiting for both to arrive. The silver+gold X6 was on recommendation from some folks here as well as after a short chat with Christian from PlusSound, decided to give it a shot. I have the Silvergarde S3 for my Meze Empy and it sounds great; hoping it'll do the same magic with the A12T.


----------



## Barra

Roasty said:


> Thanks very much for your input!
> I did manage to try the 1950 with the A12T, but to be completely honest I didn't really like the sound.. Seemed to smooth things out too much and there was some over emphasis on mids to midbass region. Perhaps the 1950 is better suited for A18T as many here have commented/praised.
> 
> I did not get to try the 1960 or 1980 though. I did manage to try a Dita cable (not the Oslo) but thought it comparable to stock.
> ...


I am sure you will be happy with your choices, they are quality manufacturers. I own the 1950 which I pair with my Legend X and is fantastic together. After all the talk, I will eventually need to try the 1950 with my A18, but remembered liking the 1960 combo much better with the 18. The 1960 my be too rich for your liking, but the 1980 worked wonderfully.


----------



## pithyginger63

Barra said:


> My best pairing with my A12t wasn't the 1950 or 1960, it was the 1980 in that PWAudio rarified space for those willing to pay for that incredible sound boost. It did exactly what you are looking for. I am hosting the DITA OSLO tour right now and even though I didn't try it directly with the 12t, i can guess that it would nicely fit your requirements as well. The other cable that impressed me with the 12t is the Han Sound Audio Redcore that Music Sanctuary has at about $450 US. The Redcore is a true hybrid with both separate pure copper and pure silver cables that while offering that silver tightening and airiness that you are looking for, maintained the texture and feeling rather than going too far analytical. The Redcore was very versatile sounding wonderful with all my CIEMs where many of the other cables paired well with only some. Have not heard the PlusSound to compare. i love my Norne Silvergarde, but it is for my HEX full-sized headphones - Norne seems to do everything right.


I haven't tried anything at the level of the 1980 with my own pair of A12t, but the biggest subbass I ever got out of it was with the OC Studio 4 wire AuX


----------



## SeeSax

Received a new cable from Rhapsodio yesterday, one of Sammy's latest dubbed "Evolution." It's a pure copper cable using two types of copper from Japan and some fancy shielding also from Japan. I'm quickly learning that my lack of ability to properly describe cables and what they are made of is going to irk a few people...but give me some credit, I'm just the end user! 

Here's a photo, in which I have to hide a secret IEM that is not quite ready for release: 

 

It's basically a two wire design without any memory wire or heat shrink and the softeness of the cable allows it to just naturally form around your ear. It's super comfortable and build quality I must say is some of the nicest I have ever seen from Rhapsodio. Unlike some of the Wizard cables, this one is super ergonomic but still with outstanding sound quality. I do not hear it sounding like a traditional copper cable, but instead more along the lines of silver with sparkly highs and clean, tight, punchy bass. I'm still getting to know the IEM, so my impressions are limited thus far. I believe Rhapsodio posted some more info on Facebook for the cable if you're interested. Either way, I really think it's a winner and I know I will own this one for a while. 

-Collin-


----------



## iron2k

SeeSax said:


> Received a new cable from Rhapsodio yesterday, one of Sammy's latest dubbed "Evolution." It's a pure copper cable using two types of copper from Japan and some fancy shielding also from Japan. I'm quickly learning that my lack of ability to properly describe cables and what they are made of is going to irk a few people...but give me some credit, I'm just the end user!
> 
> Here's a photo, in which I have to hide a secret IEM that is not quite ready for release:
> 
> ...


looks gorgeous


----------



## Erfan Elahi

SeeSax said:


> Received a new cable from Rhapsodio yesterday, one of Sammy's latest dubbed "Evolution." It's a pure copper cable using two types of copper from Japan and some fancy shielding also from Japan. I'm quickly learning that my lack of ability to properly describe cables and what they are made of is going to irk a few people...but give me some credit, I'm just the end user!
> 
> Here's a photo, in which I have to hide a secret IEM that is not quite ready for release:
> 
> ...


Yup! Gorgeous  Collin, eager to know songs you've tested so far and, IEMs you paired and your source. Also, how much is it retailed ?


----------



## SeeSax

Erfan Elahi said:


> Yup! Gorgeous  Collin, eager to know songs you've tested so far and, IEMs you paired and your source. Also, how much is it retailed ?



I'm not actually sure on retail price, but definitely not cheap. I paid for an upgrade on the IEM I purchased, so it's probably not fair to comment on that. I'll see what Sammy says on retail price. 

Source was my usual Cayin N6ii and Sony TA-ZH1ES and so far I have paired it with the Rhapsodio IEM and the U18T because that let's me hear subtle cable differences. Test tracks are the normal Tidal stuff like the live recording of Eagles Hotel California, some Amber Rubarth binaural recordings and the like. Nothing concrete or scientific yet, but overall impressed. I'll comment back once I've had some more time.

Cheers!

-Collin-


----------



## Barra

SeeSax said:


> Received a new cable from Rhapsodio yesterday, one of Sammy's latest dubbed "Evolution." It's a pure copper cable using two types of copper from Japan and some fancy shielding also from Japan. I'm quickly learning that my lack of ability to properly describe cables and what they are made of is going to irk a few people...but give me some credit, I'm just the end user!
> 
> Here's a photo, in which I have to hide a secret IEM that is not quite ready for release:
> 
> ...


That is a very beautiful cable. Do you know what gauge it is? It looks thicker like the PWAudio 1900s. If it sounds anything like it looks, it is definitely a winner.


----------



## SeeSax

Hey @Barra I will get that info. It's considerably larger than the 1960 2-wire, but smaller than the 4-wire. Also larger than the 1950, so hopefully that tells you a bit on the size. I'll report back 

-Collin-


----------



## crabdog

The new Ares Audio Sakeishi has a rather unusual style. I'm just about to have my first listen.


----------



## davidmolliere

SeeSax said:


> Here's a photo, in which I have to hide a secret IEM that is not quite ready for release:



Nice cable 

I think I know what the secret thing is


----------



## bvng3540

Where can I buy dunu hulk 2.5mm and 4.4mm connectors


----------



## aaf evo

So I had the Leonidas 2 for a short period of time, really great cable. I felt it shared similar characteristics to my 1950s but just couldn’t compete w the 1950s transparency and overall just pure cleanliness the cable brings, which I’d assume that’s where the Octa would match it. 

Definitely exceeded my expectations though


----------



## singleended5863

crabdog said:


> The new Ares Audio Sakeishi has a rather unusual style. I'm just about to have my first listen.



How is the SQ of Sasheiki? I am planning to buy it  to pair with EE Phantom. Thanks.


----------



## Shivas

Any cable recommendations to improve sub-bass and mid-bass? Currently using a VE6x1 paired to the Cayin N6II, with stock cable. Been planning to upgrade to 4.4mm balanced cable.

Thank you!


----------



## mvvRAZ

A rather unexpected pairing

I tried my Labkable Violet with my VE Elysium yesterday and it was an instant success 

Added a fair bit of instrumental separation, as well as more smoothness to the overall presentation. The soundstage is definitely wider as well and the bass a bit punchier 

I had previously used the Violet with the Noir but the result was way too much bass

Planning on ordering an Amerhyst this week to test it out with some IEMs, given the sound profile that Labkable have described I feel like it might work even better with the Elysium


----------



## robulation

I was wondering if there’s anyone that could help... I currently have a 4.4mm balanced cable, but occasionally I need to listen through my Mac for work, which is obviously 3.5mm and not balanced.

Does anyone know if it’s possible to get a 4.4mm balanced female adaptor that goes to 3.5mm or even Apple lightning?

thanks in advance!


----------



## mvvRAZ

robulation said:


> I was wondering if there’s anyone that could help... I currently have a 4.4mm balanced cable, but occasionally I need to listen through my Mac for work, which is obviously 3.5mm and not balanced.
> 
> Does anyone know if it’s possible to get a 4.4mm balanced female adaptor that goes to 3.5mm or even Apple lightning?
> 
> thanks in advance!


Definitely, there’s plenty of adapters that go to 3.5 - hifiheadphones uk have some for sure 

Apple lightning... if you find a cable manufacturer that offers lightning cables maybe you can ask them to make one for you?


----------



## crabdog

singleended5863 said:


> How is the SQ of Sasheiki? I am planning to buy it  to pair with EE Phantom. Thanks.


Sorry for the late reply. Sakeishi has good end to end extension and really nice separation. I've only had a chance to test a couple IEMs with it so far.


----------



## singleended5863

crabdog said:


> Sorry for the late reply. Sakeishi has good end to end extension and really nice separation. I've only had a chance to test a couple IEMs with it so far.



I have ordered the Sakeishi for my Phantom CIEM and it is on the way. Can’t wait to listen to it. Thanks anyway!


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/han-sound-audio-zentoo.23993/reviews#review-22783

A new entry level offering from Han Sound Audio. The ZENTOO is truly different than the original “Zen”!


----------



## kubig123

robulation said:


> I was wondering if there’s anyone that could help... I currently have a 4.4mm balanced cable, but occasionally I need to listen through my Mac for work, which is obviously 3.5mm and not balanced.
> 
> Does anyone know if it’s possible to get a 4.4mm balanced female adapter that goes to 3.5mm or even Apple lightning?
> 
> thanks in advance!


if you are looking for quality cables, i would recommend Plussound, Triton Audio Cables and Music-Sanctuary.

Plussound is offering also a usb-c plug that works perfectly with the newer macs and ipad pro; music sanctuary used to offer a lighting connector, i don't see it anymore this option on their website, but if you contact Calvin, he might be able to help you. What i really love from Music Sanctuary is the possibility to use the PW 1960 wire, on of my favorite cable, not cheap but the overall quality is outstanding, you won't be disappointed.

David from Triton is always extremely helpful, he uses only high ends components and the built time is never more than a week and prices, a great asset for this community.


----------



## singleended5863

kubig123 said:


> if you are looking for quality cables, i would recommend Plussound, Triton Audio Cables and Music-Sanctuary.
> 
> Plussound is offering also a usb-c plug that works perfectly with the newer macs and ipad pro; music sanctuary used to offer a lighting connector, i don't see it anymore this option on their website, but if you contact Calvin, he might be able to help you. What i really love from Music Sanctuary is the possibility to use the PW 1960 wire, on of my favorite cable, not cheap but the overall quality is outstanding, you won't be disappointed.
> 
> David from Triton is always extremely helpful, he uses only high ends components and the built time is never more than a week and prices, a great asset for this community.



I have used 3 Triton Audio Cable pigtails that David made for me. I love them all.


----------



## robulation

Thanks guys... I suppose I was asking from more of a technical standpoint. I’m guessing it’s technically possible to do a 4.4mm balanced to 3.5mm unbalanced or lightning/usb-C?...


----------



## jmpsmash

robulation said:


> Thanks guys... I suppose I was asking from more of a technical standpoint. I’m guessing it’s technically possible to do a 4.4mm balanced to 3.5mm unbalanced or lightning/usb-C?...


You can have an adapter that takes a 3.5mm unbalanced output from you dap/ amp and convert it to a balanced cable.  But not the other way around.


----------



## buonassi

Yes.... Do not try and use a single ended cable from a balanced output.  Something could fry. 

However, you can use a single ended output feeding a balanced cable. All this does is retain single ended schema by combining both L and R negative poles of your balanced cable. Completely safe.


----------



## robulation

I understand single ended output can’t feed a balanced... and equally you can’t do balanced output using single ended.

with this in mind, can anyone point me in the direction of a female balanced 4.4mm to 3.5mm single ended adaptor?


----------



## singleended5863

robulation said:


> I understand single ended output can’t feed a balanced... and equally you can’t do balanced output using single ended.
> 
> with this in mind, can anyone point me in the direction of a female balanced 4.4mm to 3.5mm single ended adaptor?



I asked David of Trident Audio Cable to build a pigtail 4.4 female to male 3.5 SE as my choice of cable type to match my portable system.


----------



## jmpsmash

robulation said:


> I understand single ended output can’t feed a balanced... and equally you can’t do balanced output using single ended.


The other way around.

Amp single ended output *can* feed a headphone with a balanced cable/plug.

Amp balanced output *cannot *feed a headphone with single ended cable/plug.


----------



## robulation

jmpsmash said:


> The other way around.
> 
> Amp single ended output *can* feed a headphone with a balanced cable/plug.
> 
> Amp balanced output *cannot *feed a headphone with single ended cable/plug.



Yup. My bad. I meant input.


----------



## robulation

singleended5863 said:


> I asked David of Trident Audio Cable to build a pigtail 4.4 female to male 3.5 SE as my choice of cable type to match my portable system.



Thanks... I’ll check it out!


----------



## robulation

robulation said:


> Thanks... I’ll check it out!



does he have a website? Had a look but can’t find anything specifically about cables


----------



## singleended5863

robulation said:


> does he have a website? Had a look but can’t find anything specifically about cables



emailing him what do you want or get suggestion from David which I went that way and satisfied with my pigtails.


----------



## singleended5863 (Oct 15, 2019)

singleended5863 said:


> emailing him what do you want or get suggestion from David which I went that way and satisfied with my pigtails.



tritonaudiocables@gmail.com

Recently it looks like he is busy but wait couple days he responds.


----------



## robulation

singleended5863 said:


> tritonaudiocables@gmail.com
> 
> Recently it looks like he is busy but wait couple days he responds.



Thank you very much! I’ll give him a shout.


----------



## buonassi

robulation said:


> does he have a website?



http://tritonaudiocables.com/

Best to PM him, however.  @alpha421 "David"


----------



## ceeloChamp

Hey All,

Quick question for all yous....do adapter cables negatively effect the audio chain. For example, if I am connecting to a source using a really nice cable with a 2.5mm balanced termination but the source only has a 3.5mm input so I have to use an adapter somthing like the Ibasso CA01, will that adapter negatively effect the audio quality?


----------



## singleended5863

ceeloChamp said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Quick question for all yous....do adapter cables negatively effect the audio chain. For example, if I am connecting to a source using a really nice cable with a 2.5mm balanced termination but the source only has a 3.5mm input so I have to use an adapter somthing like the Ibasso CA01, will that adapter negatively effect the audio quality?



I have used 3 different pigtails from balanced to balanced, balanced to SE like your situation now. I don’t really hear any sound degradation. Negatively affected to Audio quality might be caused by cheap cables and plugs you are purchasing.


----------



## ceeloChamp

singleended5863 said:


> I have used 3 different pigtails from balanced to balanced, balanced to SE like your situation now. I don’t really hear any sound degradation. Negatively affected to Audio quality might be caused by cheap cables and plugs you are purchasing.



I don't have any issues now, since all my cables are terminated correctly, but I am debating buying a new source that only has a 3.5mm input and I wanted to see if any pigtails would ruin the awersome cables I want to plug into it


----------



## twister6

robulation said:


> I understand single ended output can’t feed a balanced... and equally you can’t do balanced output using single ended.
> 
> with this in mind, can anyone point me in the direction of a female balanced 4.4mm to 3.5mm single ended adaptor?



4.4mm female BAL to 3.5mm male SE, from Penon high quality pigtail adapter, under $30 here.  Just make sure you pick the right combo since they offer every adapter combination.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 15, 2019)

.


----------



## singleended5863

Here is TAC 4.4 female to male 3.5 SE.


----------



## robulation

singleended5863 said:


> Here is TAC 4.4 female to male 3.5 SE.



doesn’t look like a 4.4 female to me?


----------



## singleended5863




----------



## TheHighlander

singleended5863 said:


> I have ordered the Sakeishi for my Phantom CIEM and it is on the way. Can’t wait to listen to it. Thanks anyway!


One more that order Sakeishi here. I order to my noble kahn. Lets see how they sound together.


----------



## singleended5863

TheHighlander said:


> One more that order Sakeishi here. I order to my noble kahn. Lets see how they sound together.



Did you get 10% discount? Hope it sounds much better than Eros II 8wire.


----------



## TheHighlander

singleended5863 said:


> Did you get 10% discount? Hope it sounds much better than Eros II 8wire.


Yes sir ✌ I get the 10% discount. Hope they better than pw audio 5th anniversary edition.


----------



## twister6

For anybody interested, I just published my review of Satin Audio Athena cable.  It's their new flagship Palladium plated Silver/Pure Silver cable from Olympus series.


----------



## mvvRAZ

twister6 said:


> For anybody interested, I just published my review of Satin Audio Athena cable.  It's their new flagship Palladium plated Silver/Pure Silver cable from Olympus series.


I have the Athena and I completely agree about the hardware options... it’s just a bit meh to have the same stuff on their TOTL as you do on a 70$ cable


----------



## Deezel177

mvvRAZ said:


> I have the Athena and I completely agree about the hardware options... it’s just a bit meh to have the same stuff on their TOTL as you do on a 70$ cable



Apparently, Satin Audio are currently working on some new gunmetal hardware, which I hope to cover in a future review.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> Apparently, Satin Audio are currently working on some new gunmetal hardware, which I hope to cover in a future review.


I heard about that too

Satin have quite a lot of potential as a company imo, they’ve only really just gotten started


----------



## ceeloChamp

Great interview as always @twister6! 

I have actually been debating buying the Athena in the last few days. I am torn between the 6, or 8-braid option. Obviously the 8-braid is better, but for my general daily use is it worth paying for the difference...or even going with the 4-braid?


----------



## mvvRAZ

ceeloChamp said:


> Great interview as always @twister6!
> 
> I have actually been debating buying the Athena in the last few days. I am torn between the 6, or 8-braid option. Obviously the 8-braid is better, but for my general daily use is it worth paying for the difference...or even going with the 4-braid?


I think if you’re willing to pay the price of the 8 braid it might make more sense to just get a 4w Leonidas II

I own the Athena 8W and the terminations as well as the split are really meh, I’ll have it reterminated at some point

The 4W Athena is probably a good option, as it’s price point is very attractive


----------



## ceeloChamp

mvvRAZ said:


> I think if you’re willing to pay the price of the 8 braid it might make more sense to just get a 4w Leonidas II
> 
> I own the Athena 8W and the terminations as well as the split are really meh, I’ll have it reterminated at some point
> 
> The 4W Athena is probably a good option, as it’s price point is very attractive



I have the Leonidas V1 I was hoping to get another cable like it. Maybe I'll just get the 4-braid Athena as a complementary cable


----------



## mvvRAZ

ceeloChamp said:


> I have the Leonidas V1 I was hoping to get another cable like it. Maybe I'll just get the 4-braid Athena as a complementary cable


Oh oh just remembered 

You should check out DHC - Double Helix Cables

They take a while (about a month or so) but their stuff is really good, one of the best under 1000 options imo


----------



## ceeloChamp

mvvRAZ said:


> Oh oh just remembered
> 
> You should check out DHC - Double Helix Cables
> 
> They take a while (about a month or so) but their stuff is really good, one of the best under 1000 options imo



Thanks for the recommendation, I will look into that aswell!


----------



## ceeloChamp

@mvvRAZ any DHC recommendations for pairing with the Khan?


----------



## mvvRAZ

ceeloChamp said:


> @mvvRAZ any DHC recommendations for pairing with the Khan?


Hummm honestly I haven’t played around with the Khan too much... only listened to it 3 or 4 times 

Most of my time right now goes to the Elysium/Noir and some Katana/A18t


----------



## Barra

mvvRAZ said:


> Hummm honestly I haven’t played around with the Khan too much... only listened to it 3 or 4 times
> 
> Most of my time right now goes to the Elysium/Noir and some Katana/A18t


What are your thoughts on the Elysium?


----------



## mvvRAZ

Barra said:


> What are your thoughts on the Elysium?


Easily my favourite IEM

I have been a huge fan of the Katana for a long while now and the Elysium is sort of that same experience but on steroids


----------



## crabdog

If you love purple or just love a good cable, I just posted my review of the Ares Audio Sakeishi.


----------



## SeeSax

mvvRAZ said:


> I think if you’re willing to pay the price of the 8 braid it might make more sense to just get a 4w Leonidas II
> 
> I own the Athena 8W and the terminations as well as the split are really meh, I’ll have it reterminated at some point
> 
> The 4W Athena is probably a good option, as it’s price point is very attractive



Well that's not great news. I have a 4w Athena coming at some point, it's currently being built. Maybe they'll continue to take their time and put better hardware on it  

Also, if you're going to directly rip off the Eidolic 2-pin connector design, at least rip off the functionality and quality too, right? In addition to that, allow me to be frank and say that $85 to upgrade the 4.4mm to a Pentaconn is highway robbery. The identical plug, purchased retail at Moon Audio, is 30 bucks: 

https://www.moon-audio.com/4-4mm-pe...WLf-SRSqprJKQ3gCiMjNGQ5A6y3Q9mVEaAm6bEALw_wcB

Even a Furutech CF-7445 (widely regarded as the best 4.4mm plug you can buy) is only $68 to buy at full price from any retailer. Okay that's all for my rant on a cable I have not even received yet. Carry on. 

-Collin-


----------



## mvvRAZ

SeeSax said:


> Well that's not great news. I have a 4w Athena coming at some point, it's currently being built. Maybe they'll continue to take their time and put better hardware on it
> 
> Also, if you're going to directly rip off the Eidolic 2-pin connector design, at least rip off the functionality and quality too, right? In addition to that, allow me to be frank and say that $85 to upgrade the 4.4mm to a Pentaconn is highway robbery. The identical plug, purchased retail at Moon Audio, is 30 bucks:
> 
> ...


I purchased my Athena while it was discounted and I’ll probably be sending it to someone to get better plugs/pins. Their stock stuff isn’t terrible, it just feels a bit plastic-y


----------



## ceeloChamp

SeeSax said:


> Well that's not great news. I have a 4w Athena coming at some point, it's currently being built. Maybe they'll continue to take their time and put better hardware on it
> 
> Also, if you're going to directly rip off the Eidolic 2-pin connector design, at least rip off the functionality and quality too, right? In addition to that, allow me to be frank and say that $85 to upgrade the 4.4mm to a Pentaconn is highway robbery. The identical plug, purchased retail at Moon Audio, is 30 bucks:
> 
> ...



Yeah I was so close to buying the 4-wire Athena, then I ended up ordering a DHC 4-wire just because the connector options were so much better. Too bad that Satin doesn't offer more options, or even an option to order a 'basic' or 'premium' one with better connectors.


----------



## pithyginger63

i think this is such a good description of listening to cables


----------



## audio123

Fantastic pairing with Aroma Ace & Han Sound Zentoo


----------



## mvvRAZ

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/labkable-violet.24009/

Just posted my Labkable Violet review! Give it a read if you're interested


----------



## mvvRAZ

Do 8 wire cables have inherently better longevity? 

I suppose it makes sense that they're less prone to stiffening and tears due to the construction and braid, but it would be nice if someone who's owned one for a while can confirm


----------



## Deezel177

mvvRAZ said:


> Do 8 wire cables have inherently better longevity?
> 
> I suppose it makes sense that they're less prone to stiffening and tears due to the construction and braid, but it would be nice if someone who's owned one for a while can confirm



One thing's for sure: They're not gonna unravel on you.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> One thing's for sure: They're not gonna unravel on you.


one can hope


----------



## olddude

My Ares ll 8 wire is still going strong.  No issues with it at all.


----------



## crabdog

My Han Sound Zentoo review is live for anyone interested in their updated entry-level model.


----------



## mvvRAZ

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/plussound-poetic-series-cable.23000/reviews Plussound Poetic Series review is up! Covered a wide variety of pairings in it too, have a look if you're interested


----------



## justrest

Humble review of Penon Leo 
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-audio-leo.24016/reviews#review-22834


----------



## ceeloChamp

Hey All, 

I just saw some really nice looking cables from 'Ares Audio' from Singapore, has anyone heard of this brand?  They don't let you customize the cables a lot, but they are on the cheap side for the materials used in them and they look pretty good to my eyes. 

Does anyone have any experience with them?


----------



## Vitor Valeri

*[Review] Effect Audio Vogue Cables*

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/review/22832/


----------



## tim0chan

ceeloChamp said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I just saw some really nice looking cables from 'Ares Audio' from Singapore, has anyone heard of this brand?  They don't let you customize the cables a lot, but they are on the cheap side for the materials used in them and they look pretty good to my eyes.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with them?


My opinion is that they use very cheap materials bought off taobao and that U can buy something better with more RnD behind it. I feel that while their marketing and build quality is excellent, that's all you're paying for


----------



## singleended5863

ceeloChamp said:


> Does anyone have any experience with them?



I just got the Ares Audio Sakeishi for a week and still listen with N6ii and Phantom. Love its clean and clear sounding in all spectrum with smooth details in treble (no harsh), sweet midrange especially in vocals and punchier, defined and deep bass. Will order the new one Sekai for Valkyrie.


----------



## BrianLHR

Hansound Zentoo Short Review

Han Sound Audio's revision of their zen did not change much looks wise, soft and supple cable albeit slightly bulky connectors (may be a nuisance/extra durability however you view it). Nice coppery shine to it. This cable is a demo unit from Music Sanctuary.
Sound wise is quite different from the previous version. This cable is pretty warm. I demoed it with Hyla CE-5, a W/V shaped signature IEM fyi.  DAP used is Shanling M0 running flac. The zentoo helps in fixing the tonality issue of the lower mids Hyla CE5 and is known to have and makes male vocals sound fuller. Its warmer sounding than Effect Audio's Ares as well as PW no.5 cable from memory. Take this with a pinch of salt as i last tried those two cables half a year ago or so. Mids are thus inherently warmer and meatier as a whole. Treble/highs feel rather untouched, and can appear to be unexciting seeing the improvements and added flavour this cable gives throughout the bass-lower mids area. Nontheless, treble details are still present.


I would recommend this cable to be paired with those IEMs that are on the brighter side/recessed male vocals as well as anyone that simply wants a non fatiguing listen.
TLDR warm, non fatiguing cable that doesnt lose out in resolution with others in the entry range.


----------



## ceeloChamp

Hello cable people, 

I know this may be considered sacrilege, but for quite a while I've wanted a high-end cable that has a mic and works with an Iphone. I know that such a cable flys in the face of TOTL cables and any mic attachment will ruin the audio chain, but it would still be very helpful. Thanks!


----------



## davidmolliere (Nov 5, 2019)

ceeloChamp said:


> Hello cable people, I know this may be considered sacrilege, but for quite a while I've wanted a high-end cable that has a mic and works with an Iphone. I know that such a cable flys in the face of TOTL cables and any mic attachment will ruin the audio chain, but it would still be very helpful. Thanks!



I own the AAW Capri cable and I am pretty happy about the SQ, there is a 24/96 DAC and mini balanced amp as well... you can get it with MMCX or 2 Pin termination   Not sure there is a mic... never use it. I'll check.

*Edit :* there is a mic...


----------



## ceeloChamp

davidmolliere said:


> I own the AAW Capri cable and I am pretty happy about the SQ, there is a 24/96 DAC and mini balanced amp as well... you can get it with MMCX or 2 Pin termination   Not sure there is a mic... never use it. I'll check.
> 
> *Edit :* there is a mic...



I was looking at that, I know it had kinda a rocky start when it was in Kickstarter and it doesn’t have a mic, but looks like a good option for mic-less


----------



## davidmolliere

ceeloChamp said:


> I was looking at that, I know it had kinda a rocky start when it was in Kickstarter and it doesn’t have a mic, but looks like a good option for mic-less



I'll check but it does support phone call so I'd say there is a mic... and it's very good performer IMHO


----------



## ceeloChamp

davidmolliere said:


> I'll check but it does support phone call so I'd say there is a mic... and it's very good performer IMHO



Regardless it’s not too expensive so I’ll give it a shot and report back!


----------



## SeeSax

@ceeloChamp check out the PlusSound Poetic series too. Or any of their four wire cables really. There's a $50 option to add in a mic. 

Now back to making fun of you for wanting a mic...

-Collin-


----------



## ceeloChamp

SeeSax said:


> @ceeloChamp check out the PlusSound Poetic series too. Or any of their four wire cables really. There's a $50 option to add in a mic.
> 
> Now back to making fun of you for wanting a mic...
> 
> -Collin-



How dare you! But that is very helpful information, I didn’t know Plusssound had a lightning and mic, thanks man!


----------



## aaf evo

Code 51 details:

https://www.effectaudio.com/code51/code-51.html


----------



## chupa

HI everyone, I have a 64audio custom A18 monitor and already had some aftermarket cables, like effect audio lionheart, forza audio cable, dita truth replacement and the stock cables.
I think the stock cable 2.5 mm sounds best so far, the dita cable was also nice - but sounded more "closed and centered" but the dita cable was really durable and I really liked the awesome plugs. But the 2 pin connector broke off  
I actually don't know why custom in ears always come with 2 pin connectors instead of mcx? 

So I was wondering if someone please give some advice on a good cable that pairs really great with the A18's?  Budget max 500 eur.
Does someone know of other cable manufactures that also use some type of "awesome plugs"like dita? 
I usually pair my A18's with the ibasso DX220 with stock amp. 

Thanks.


----------



## aaf evo

chupa said:


> HI everyone, I have a 64audio custom A18 monitor and already had some aftermarket cables, like effect audio lionheart, forza audio cable, dita truth replacement and the stock cables.
> I think the stock cable 2.5 mm sounds best so far, the dita cable was also nice - but sounded more "closed and centered" but the dita cable was really durable and I really liked the awesome plugs. But the 2 pin connector broke off
> I actually don't know why custom in ears always come with 2 pin connectors instead of mcx?
> 
> ...



dunu hulk uses swappable plugs like the Oslo.


----------



## davidmolliere (Nov 7, 2019)

aaf evo said:


> dunu hulk uses swappable plugs like the Oslo.



Yep and even better system IMHO, smaller footprint, faster switch and more flattering material as well.

Hulk is a fantastic cable for the price, if you don’t mind the 22 AWG that makes its 4 wire look almost like and 8 wire cable   But it’s supple and very usable IMHO even on the go. Sonically, You get tight bass with great control, clean mids and good lower treble energy, you won’t get the best upper treble but it’s pretty good though. A nice black background is also worth mentioning.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Friday is cable day at HFN and today we take a close look at he Oslo cable from DITA.

https://www.headfonia.com/dita-audio-oslo-review/


----------



## crabdog

singleended5863 said:


> I just got the Ares Audio Sakeishi for a week and still listen with N6ii and Phantom. Love its clean and clear sounding in all spectrum with smooth details in treble (no harsh), sweet midrange especially in vocals and punchier, defined and deep bass. Will order the new one Sekai for Valkyrie.


+1 I am very impressed with the Sakeishi. It's a huge step up from their previous cables and it sounds fantastic imo.


----------



## chupa

aaf evo said:


> dunu hulk uses swappable plugs like the Oslo.


Do you know how they sound with the A18's?


----------



## aaf evo

chupa said:


> Do you know how they sound with the A18's?



sorry I haven’t heard the Hulk.


----------



## chupa

davidmolliere said:


> Yep and even better system IMHO, smaller footprint, faster switch and more flattering material as well.
> 
> Hulk is a fantastic cable for the price, if you don’t mind the 22 AWG that makes its 4 wire look almost like and 8 wire cable   But it’s supple and very usable IMHO even on the go. Sonically, You get tight bass with great control, clean mids and good lower treble energy, you won’t get the best upper treble but it’s pretty good though. A nice black background is also worth mentioning.



Thanks for these insights - any idea how the hulk would sound with the A18's? Don't know if copper is the right fit for the A18's. 
Do you know of other cables also offering changeable plugs?


----------



## davidmolliere

chupa said:


> Thanks for these insights - any idea how the hulk would sound with the A18's? Don't know if copper is the right fit for the A18's. Do you know of other cables also offering changeable plugs?



I have only auditioned U18t, and after that pairing is also a matter of preferences... the only other cable with a similar system is DITA Oslo.


----------



## Deferenz

I want to get an Effect Audio cable to upgrade from a stock cable, but I’m not sure which one to get. My current on the go set up is:

Cayin N6ii >> Stock Cable >> Shure SE846

Initially I liked the written impressions given of the Eros II, but the more I read about cables I also became aware of the Thor Silver II and the Lionheart which also interested me. I also noticed that there is Ares II+ and the Eros II+ (My budget would be approx. £400 / $540 for a cable)

I am conscious that both the Cayin N6ii and the SE846 are on the warm side and so I’m not sure what to go for in terms of silver, copper, hybrid etc. Does anyone have an opinion on which cable of the ones mentioned might suit given my gear? In terms of sound signature, I like a bit of warmth, some good bass, clear mids and largish soundstage. I am a little sensitive to high treble hence the DAP and IEM I currently own. My budget would be approx. £400 / $480 for a cable.

Another question – I can see that the cables come in both 2.5mm balanced and 3.5mm standard. Is there a better option between balanced / unbalanced for improved sound or does it not matter?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## RipVanWinkle1989

Anybody willing to part with their Labkable Takumi II or Pandora?


----------



## honeyjjack

ive got a Brise upg001 ref 8 wire im willing to part with


----------



## RipVanWinkle1989

honeyjjack said:


> ive got a Brise upg001 ref 8 wire im willing to part with


Thanks, but I'm specifically looking out for the Takumi and Pandora.


----------



## Pro-Jules (Nov 15, 2019)

What is the name of the connection on Empire Ears iems, it's not mmcx is it? I haven't unplugged mine to look as I don't  want To introduce any looseness


----------



## mvvRAZ

2pin


----------



## Pro-Jules (Nov 15, 2019)

Well that's simple enough! Thanks!

What would  be a great 2 pin cable to 4.5mm balanced.  Perhaps with a dark (dark blue or black) outer casing?

I have ARES || now.

I like blue / black  not really digging the cables that show off the metal. I want the Darth Vader model.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Pro-Jules said:


> Well that's simple enough! Thanks!
> 
> What would  be a great 2 pin cable to 4.5mm balanced.  Perhaps with a dark (dark blue or black) outer casing?
> 
> ...


Plussound poetic series


----------



## potatopeanutella (Nov 17, 2019)

Short Review on Hansound Zentoo Cable

Tried the demo unit at Music Sanctuary in Singapore. Demo-ed with Massdrop Plus IEM and my Google Pixel 3a.

Cable felt thick, sturdy and indestructible. Connectors are well-built and very aesthetically pleasing.

Sound impressions are that upper mid-range and treble frequencies are mildly emphasized, making female vocals sing quite nicely and cymbals sparkle very well.

https://imgur.com/a/oDMmZ5f


----------



## Pro-Jules (Nov 23, 2019)

mvvRAZ said:


> Plussound poetic series



Ordered! (black Friday discount of 20%)

Tri-Silver (Type 6 Litz)

Blue

I hope I can hear an improvement over my ARES ||


----------



## SeeSax

Pro-Jules said:


> Ordered! (black Friday discount of 20%)
> 
> Tri-Silver (Type 6 Litz)
> 
> ...



Nice! I'm in for the Exo in Tri-Silver from @PLUSSOUND myself. Always wanted it and the BF sale pushed me over  let the agonizing wait begin!

-Collin-


----------



## mvvRAZ

Pro-Jules said:


> Ordered! (black Friday discount of 20%)
> 
> Tri-Silver (Type 6 Litz)
> 
> ...


Congrats dude you won’t be disappointed!


----------



## ayang02

It might be worth seeking out a PlusSound distributor for that 20% discount depending on where you are in the world to avoid the long wait: I found one in Hong Kong willing to do the same discount. Sure the price might be a little higher overall but it’s definitely cheaper than doing rush order plus shipping and you don’t get to customize the cable options like you do on the PS website.

Anyways, X6 Tri-Silver ordered and should be arriving very soon


----------



## pithyginger63

ayang02 said:


> It might be worth seeking out a PlusSound distributor for that 20% discount depending on where you are in the world to avoid the long wait: I found one in Hong Kong willing to do the same discount. Sure the price might be a little higher overall but it’s definitely cheaper than doing rush order plus shipping and you don’t get to customize the cable options like you do on the PS website.
> 
> Anyways, X6 Tri-Silver ordered and should be arriving very soon


I wonder how a 4, 6, and 8 wire cable of the same material would compare. I remember Plussound saying the difference between a 4 and a 6 is not as dramatic as the difference between a 4 and an 8. But at the same time, I think maybe a 4 and a 6 wire cable would have more character than an 8? I feel like most 8 wire cables I've tried are all clear and transparent sounding with only a hint of their cable material.


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> I wonder how a 4, 6, and 8 wire cable of the same material would compare. I remember Plussound saying the difference between a 4 and a 6 is not as dramatic as the difference between a 4 and an 8. But at the same time, I think maybe a 4 and a 6 wire cable would have more character than an 8? I feel like most 8 wire cables I've tried are all clear and transparent sounding with only a hint of their cable material.


I haven't really tried any 6 wires, but you're right that when listening to a 8w the cable material gets negated a little bit...

Between my Cleo Octa and my DHC 8w I literally can't spot any difference. The difference between the Leo/Cleo Bespoke and the Cleo Octa is also pretty small - some touches here and there 

I'm really really curious to receive my Eletechs to compare. Will be my first venture into proper exotic material combinations


----------



## ayang02

pithyginger63 said:


> I wonder how a 4, 6, and 8 wire cable of the same material would compare. I remember Plussound saying the difference between a 4 and a 6 is not as dramatic as the difference between a 4 and an 8. But at the same time, I think maybe a 4 and a 6 wire cable would have more character than an 8? I feel like most 8 wire cables I've tried are all clear and transparent sounding with only a hint of their cable material.



I suppose that’s generally true with most silver/copper cables going from 4 to 8 wires. I do agree that most of the times more wire count yields better transparency and details.

When different materials are mixed you may observe some different effects. I’ve tried:
- 4 wire vs 8 wire Toxic Cables Gold Silver Poison (gold-plated silver) and the 8-wire variant is a lot warmer than the 4-wire version and I think the 4-wire version offers better instrument separation & clarity.
- PlusSound Exo Tri-Copper vs X8 Tri-Copper. The Exo version sounds warmer and less detailed than the X8.
- Hansound 4-wire Aegis vs 8-wire. It’s almost as if we’re talking about two different sound signatures here, not necessarily one better than the other.

And damn the HK and TW post offices are really efficient: I already have my X6 Tri-Silver before it’s Monday.


----------



## Tristy

Hi guys (and girls), I’m looking for a PlusSound cable that would be alike the PW audio 1960s in that it is airy, brings out micro detail yet has a naturally tonality like a copper cable and has a slight bass emphasis (I know, it sound like I want to have my cake and eat it). Any ideas? It would be to pair with a legend x


----------



## RipVanWinkle1989

Is there a similar thread for headphone cables?


----------



## mvvRAZ

https://theheadphonelist.com/effect-audio-bespoke-leonidas-ii-cleopatra-road-to-ultimate/ 

EA Bespoke review is up on the THL now!  

Really glad to have been given this opportunity to be a guest reviewer, thank you @Deezel177 and @PinkyPowers!!!

Looking forward to future collaborations - one is already in discussion


----------



## SeeSax

mvvRAZ said:


> I haven't really tried any 6 wires, but you're right that when listening to a 8w the cable material gets negated a little bit...
> 
> Between my Cleo Octa and my DHC 8w I literally can't spot any difference. The difference between the Leo/Cleo Bespoke and the Cleo Octa is also pretty small - some touches here and there
> 
> I'm really really curious to receive my Eletechs to compare. Will be my first venture into proper exotic material combinations



Oooooooooooh which Eletech's did you get? Guessing the Iliad? Super curious to hear how it compares. Eric is awesome. 

-Collin-


----------



## mvvRAZ

SeeSax said:


> Oooooooooooh which Eletech's did you get? Guessing the Iliad? Super curious to hear how it compares. Eric is awesome.
> 
> -Collin-


Iliad and Plato


----------



## Animagus (Nov 27, 2019)

Hey guys! Here is my review of Electro Acousti Cryo-Litz 7N UP-OCC & 7N SCC cables on Twister6. They are nice high quality cables priced very well. Have a look and let me know what you think. 

I don't know if Electro Acousti has been talked about here in this thread or not. So here is a para from my review about the company.

Electro Acousti (EAC) is a cable brand and manufacturer based out of China. They offer a variety of high-quality wire materials, some of which are very cool, rare and uncommon. They manufacture their own accessories like jacks, connectors, Y-splits, terminations, etc. under their own brand called Eagle. You can order from their stock wire combinations and choose the accessories to go along with them or make a completely custom cable from scratch choosing whichever wire you like from the options they have, and have them make it completely as per your specifications. All these customization options along with good craftsmanship and high competitive pricing makes them a very enticing value for money high quality brand.

Some pictures as eye candy.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Eletech is doing a giveaway!

If you do all three methods you get better chances!  or well, everyone is doing all three so I guess they’re still the same chances haha


----------



## Markus Tappeser (Nov 30, 2019)

Hi folks,

I received about 4 days ago my new cable from Han Sound Audio, the 2 wire hybrid gold-silver-copper TORFA.
And I want to share my first impressions with you.

I bought this cable after a mail conversation with Edward Shen from Han Sound Audio, in which he suggesting me their new development.
I asked for a neutral sound with a bit of warmness, not to technical, and a good soundstage and what can I say, in combination with my VE6x this cable tweak the sound right how I like.
Compare to my last cable, the Leonidas from Effect Audio (which went so stiff after 2,5 years that they got very uncomfortable behind the ears), in my opinion this cable is better balanced regarding of the frequencies , and more important the frequencies are clearly separated, fast and present.
The hardware and the build quality are exceptional, the
I do not want to hide two negative points:
The first is that the 2-pin termination (shiny silver) , the plug (black plastic) and Y-split (gunmetal) are not harmonius in design and color, maybe I ordered to early during they crafted my cable they presented a new Y-split (in honeycomb design like the plug) and a black termination.
The second is that the cable is a bit "noisy" especially when you wearing a collared shirt

Anyway, over all a great cable which I can recommend

Enjoy the music and have a good time
Cheers!


----------



## Fishdo (Nov 30, 2019)

ceeloChamp said:


> Hello cable people,
> 
> I know this may be considered sacrilege, but for quite a while I've wanted a high-end cable that has a mic and works with an Iphone. I know that such a cable flys in the face of TOTL cables and any mic attachment will ruin the audio chain, but it would still be very helpful. Thanks!



Might be a bit late to your post mate but  you could have a look around for NOS Campfire Audio Litz cable with mic and lightning connector... they don’t sell them on their site anymore but while I have been shopping around for some cables I have seen them still for sale as part of some sellers own internal  stock...

They are priced around $150... which is a good price imho for a decent cable with a mic and certified lightning connector...


----------



## Pro-Jules

As well as a top line iem cable from Plussound’s Poetic range I also ordered one of the Bluetooth models.

I am an LDAC Bluetooth fan and my DAP outputs it. But it can also receive AAC or sbc from my iPhone.

look ma! No cables!

I hope it behaves well and alerts me to incoming calls and I can take phone calls easily while listening to my DAP.

I hope to get both soon.

I must have gone Black Friday mad to have forked out for them both. 20% off! 

$$$$$.


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome (Dec 1, 2019)

Hi guys, new to cables here after hearing the difference while demo'ing andro's and slightly underwhelmed in stock configuration then switching to gold 16.
Where can i find some good information about how cable designs, configuration and materials affect the sound in audio? is the science established yet above and beyond just impedance?

Are there any hard fast rules like, silver is bright, gold is smooth, X wire configuration increases... ect ect
Currently considering for andromeda the gold 16, AK crystal cable PE22 and maybe effect audio stuff.

Thanks


----------



## mvvRAZ

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> Hi guys, new to cables here after hearing the difference while demo'ing andro's and slightly underwhelmed in stock configuration then switching to gold 16.
> Where can i find some good information about how cable designs, configuration and materials affect the sound in audio? is the science established yet above and beyond just impedance?
> 
> Are there any hard fast rules like, silver is bright, gold is smooth, X wire configuration increases... ect ect
> ...


It's a bit complicated to answer. Different cable materials do have a "traditional" sound profile, but that is only if those configurations fit the profile. The Effect Audio Cleopatra for example fits the traditional silver profile very well 

It is entirely possible however that a different silver cable has an entirely different silver cable to have a certain warmth to it, that traditional silvers aren't known for 

I'd say have a look at the reviews of individual cables that you're interested in. Two reviewers I'd especially recommend for cable specifically are @Wyville and @Deezel177 

All that being said, I've found that a cable generally doesn't possess a sound of its own, but is rather reliant on the pairings with the IEMs and their synergies


----------



## Wyville

mvvRAZ said:


> It's a bit complicated to answer. Different cable materials do have a "traditional" sound profile, but that is only if those configurations fit the profile. The Effect Audio Cleopatra for example fits the traditional silver profile very well
> 
> It is entirely possible however that a different silver cable has an entirely different silver cable to have a certain warmth to it, that traditional silvers aren't known for
> 
> ...


Yeah, while a cable might have some general characteristics, it is really dependent on the specific pairing how the result will sound. Some IEMs respond to cable changes very well, others in unexpected ways, and some do not seem to respond very much at all. Plus, a cable might be very expensive and still pair poorly with certain IEMs or produce changes that do not quite fit your preferences. Ideally it is best to try and find a way to demo any cable you are interested in.


----------



## mvvRAZ

As far as the physics of it all go, the more foreign material there is in a cable (gold palladium etc etc), the more the sound will be altered. Pure silver tends to leave the sound signature mostly unaffected, but given the fact that you'll probably be going to pure silver from something like say, SPC, the added conductivity generally affects the treble frequencies most, as those are most reliant on recording quality and signal


----------



## Fishdo

> Hi guys, new to cables here after hearing the difference while demo'ing andro's and slightly underwhelmed in stock configuration then switching to gold 16.
> Where can i find some good information about how cable designs, configuration and materials affect the sound in audio? is the science established yet above and beyond just impedance?
> 
> Are there any hard fast rules like, silver is bright, gold is smooth, X wire configuration increases... ect ect
> ...



https://www.analysis-plus.com/design-whitepaper/


----------



## pithyginger63

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> gold is smooth



If we take it from a "stereotypes" standpoint, gold is the worst conductor among gold, copper, and silver. Depending on your gear and the specific gold cable you are getting, it will have what I like to describe as a bloomy, analogue sound. This is most prominent in the bass regions in my experience, though some cables I've owned are bloomy sounding from top to bottom (Plussound X8 GPC). The X8 specifically had a warm bloomy sound all throughout it's signature, but it was linear and coherent, with a good deal of transparency and decent detail pickup. It still wouldn't outresolve any silver cable though. 

A well priced gold plated cable would be the OC Studio AuX if you can get your hands on one. It's bloominess is most prominent in the subbass regions and can sound like you have more bass in your sound signature. It doesn't add any punch though. 



mvvRAZ said:


> I'd say have a look at the reviews of individual cables that you're interested in



Definitely this. 



mvvRAZ said:


> The Effect Audio Cleopatra for example fits the traditional silver profile very well



I think the Cleo has a particular ability to reveal timbral detail very well. Timbre was very realistic on it, followed closely by the Hansound Agni ii. 

In my experience, it's best to avoid cables that have separate wires within the cables themselves, like 2 copper and 2 silver. I like to think it's because cables have wires "going to" the earphones and "back into" the source. If those wires are different, then the sound becomes wonky. I also tended not to like cables that have silver and copper mixed together in some way. Other things that are payed attention to in cable loving communities also include a crap ton of speculative things like matching solder do a specific wire, plug quality, connector quality, braiding, etc. I've heard people at my shop discussing solder types and it seemed like there was a real difference to each of the things. 

One cable I'd personally recommend looking into would be the Crystal Cable Dream Duet. I tried it with a VE8, but that pairing blew the soundstage of the VE8 way farther than I had every experienced on any iem. I'm not exaggerating either.


----------



## pithyginger63

mvvRAZ said:


> As far as the physics of it all go, the more foreign material there is in a cable (gold palladium etc etc), the more the sound will be altered. Pure silver tends to leave the sound signature mostly unaffected, but given the fact that you'll probably be going to pure silver from something like say, SPC, the added conductivity generally affects the treble frequencies most, as those are most reliant on recording quality and signal


I actually noticed that sometimes, a silver cable sounds like it's pitch shifted a little bit upwards.


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> If we take it from a "stereotypes" standpoint, gold is the worst conductor among gold, copper, and silver. Depending on your gear and the specific gold cable you are getting, it will have what I like to describe as a bloomy, analogue sound. This is most prominent in the bass regions in my experience, though some cables I've owned are bloomy sounding from top to bottom (Plussound X8 GPC). The X8 specifically had a warm bloomy sound all throughout it's signature, but it was linear and coherent, with a good deal of transparency and decent detail pickup. It still wouldn't outresolve any silver cable though.
> 
> A well priced gold plated cable would be the OC Studio AuX if you can get your hands on one. It's bloominess is most prominent in the subbass regions and can sound like you have more bass in your sound signature. It doesn't add any punch though.
> 
> ...


Yup, silver is the most conductive metal, followed by copper. Everything else that you add into the mix increases the resistance

I also have a bad experience with cables that mix silver and copper together, or well not bad, but rather doesn't fit my preferences very well

Just to add, a SPC cable is much less pure than both a pure silver or a pure copper, so your resistance would once again be changing and your sound will be affected


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Thanks for the helpful replies.
Bloominess in the bass was definitely the biggest difference i noticed between cables, second being a sense of expansion and slight changes to resolution. Gold 16 'gpc' was my favorite simply due to the fact it added a more smooth organic presentation to the andro, but the bass lost impact and definition despite being larger in volume 'bloomy', actually reminiscent of tubes. My second favorite being their pure silver.
I'm definitely curious to try gold plated silver, but the AK crystal cables are a combined gold-silver.


----------



## Fishdo

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> Thanks for the helpful replies.
> Bloominess in the bass was definitely the biggest difference i noticed between cables, second being a sense of expansion and slight changes to resolution. Gold 16 'gpc' was my favorite simply due to the fact it added a more smooth organic presentation to the andro, but the bass lost impact and definition despite being larger in volume 'bloomy', actually reminiscent of tubes. My second favorite being their pure silver.
> I'm definitely curious to try gold plated silver, but the AK crystal cables are a combined gold-silver.



you can make a big mistake by just basing your or any cable choice solely by the material.... there are so many other factors that will influence the material choice...

Try searching for Hakuzen’s threads on here or read the link I sent you here to start to understand what cable makers allow for in designing a cable...

Just like one silver material can be very different to another silver material (based on the way it is treated in processing or simply by its use)


----------



## pithyginger63

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> bass lost impact and definition


I definitely feel this way about gold plated cables, that from a visual standpoint, are plated in a thick layer a gold.


----------



## Wyville

Fishdo said:


> Just like one silver material can be very different to another silver material (based on the way it is treated in processing or simply by its use)


Indeed, every cable should be evaluated in and of itself and considering specific pairings. SilverFi cables, for instance, are nothing like the silver stereotype. Their R1 oozed natural timbre and had wonderfully smooth treble response with my Phantom. Tonally one of the very best pairings I have tried with my Phantom, where I usually don't quite like them paired with a silver cable.


----------



## sehnsucht (Dec 30, 2019)




----------



## mvvRAZ

sehnsucht said:


> This forum is a science-free zone. I think even asking for evidence here is not allowed.  There are other forums on this site, and the internet, where you'll get a more accurate answer.  Proceed with caution.


I wouldn’t say so, he isn’t asking for evidence, he’s just asking about how it works

What I believe isn’t allowed is spamming the usual snake oil comments, but I think his question was more than fine


----------



## sehnsucht (Dec 30, 2019)




----------



## Wyville

sehnsucht said:


> The question is fine except he's asking if the science is established and the correct response is "no, there's no evidence you can hear any difference in a properly conducted experiment" but that would fall foul of the text in the forum description:
> 
> "...this, and the other forums (other than the *Sound Science* forum), are _*DBT and ABX-free zones*_ and posts about either will be moved or deleted"
> 
> so all he'll read is one-sided "typing" about the audio qualities of this or that metal.


The aim of the ban is to avoid the typical toxic atmosphere that is usually found around topics where people on the internet have strong, contrasting opinions. It is not constructive and let's leave it at that.


----------



## mvvRAZ

sehnsucht said:


> The question is fine except he's asking if the science is established and the correct response is "no, there's no evidence you can hear any difference in a properly conducted experiment" but that would fall foul of the text in the forum description:
> 
> "...this, and the other forums (other than the *Sound Science* forum), are _*DBT and ABX-free zones*_ and posts about either will be moved or deleted"
> 
> so all he'll read is one-sided "typing" about the audio qualities of this or that metal.


Haha you were just itching to say that weren’t you


----------



## pithyginger63

sehnsucht said:


> The question is fine except he's asking if the science is established and the correct response is "no, there's no evidence you can hear any difference in a properly conducted experiment" but that would fall foul of the text in the forum description:
> 
> "...this, and the other forums (other than the *Sound Science* forum), are _*DBT and ABX-free zones*_ and posts about either will be moved or deleted"
> 
> so all he'll read is one-sided "typing" about the audio qualities of this or that metal.


I have a theory that we just aren’t measuring the right things

I’m not too familiar with audio science, but if there was a repeatable way to measure “transient speeds” and “decay”, then I think the talk around cables can become more civilized. As the store owner of an IEM shop once told me, people can’t talk when they can’t agree on the rulers they measure with. 

Also, as someone studying another scientific field, I think people use the word science with too much authority. Science changes too much, too fast.


----------



## sehnsucht (Dec 30, 2019)




----------



## mvvRAZ

sehnsucht said:


> Surely if you can define what you mean by a term - and if you can't then what are we discussing - then we can measure it.  You can measure the speed of a car, can't you.  But you can't measure it's mood, or purpose, or desirability.  So, now we can measure the speed of different cars.  "I think red cars are fastest".  We can measure that. Make a faster car and paint it blue - does it slow down?   No, not really.
> 
> Ok, so someone says "I think platinum cables are great for decay".  What do you mean by decay? Define it, then get a platinum cable and cables made from other metals, and measure them.  Well, was platinum better?   Tick the box marked yes or no. Why wouldn't you be able to measure it.  Do you believe there's something complicated about the low speed, low power world of audio electronics?
> 
> ...


Buddy why don’t you just head back to ASR and spam with the other members about AB techniques - or are you too bored of confirming the same crap over and over again to each other so now you need to be toxic on other forums 

We don’t need or want your toxicity here, this is a forum for high end cable discussion, you quoted the rules yourself 

Even if we assume that cables are all a placebo and don’t have a large enough effect for us to hear, this is something we both enjoy discussing and purchasing - this is a hobby in which the only relevant metric is enjoyment, and as far as that is concerned cables more than check out for us


----------



## sehnsucht (Dec 30, 2019)




----------



## mvvRAZ

sehnsucht said:


> I'm not sure I've said anything remotely toxic; however you seem to think I talk "crap" and should "head back over" somewhere or other which you could argue isn't very nice.
> 
> Cables are definitely not a placebo - sound is measurably improved; at least, when connected at each end.


The sound is measurably improved yes. However, in a standard AB test of a song or two long you generally speaking can’t consistently tell them apart

The general consensus between those who do enjoy the benefits of cables is that those differences are something you notice over time and extended listening 

Aspects such as soundstage width, depth, texture, etc etc are something nobody’s been able to measure yet, and I don’t think any of us are interested enough in measurements to actually go to the trouble of finding ways


----------



## Wyville (Dec 1, 2019)

sehnsucht said:


> Is science changing fast?  As a method for testing a hypothesis I'd not say it's changing at all.


Luckily it is, or I would be out of a job. 

Jokes aside, this thread was created to have a place without these discussions. Not because it isn’t interesting, but rather because the discussion is everywhere and it is nice to have a thread without it to just talk cables.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Honestly I’m sorry for being this rude but this is the one place where I don’t have to put a disclaimer every time I discuss a cable


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Healthy curiosity within a larger context, definitely not trying to throw accusations or start a debate haha. I appreciate the responses.

I've heard how much headroom there is for cables in iem's now and excited to find out more.


----------



## pithyginger63

sehnsucht said:


> Is science changing fast? As a method for testing a hypothesis I'd not say it's changing at all.


I’m not going to address the other stuff. Just this. 

Have fun with big data mate.


----------



## sehnsucht (Dec 30, 2019)




----------



## pithyginger63

sehnsucht said:


> I think you're missing the point. The scientific process isn't changing.  Construct a hypothesis, test it, is it repeatable etc.  Dunno why you think "big data", testing cables etc is exempt from that.  Personally I have no problem with people pretending silver cables sound better than copper, but when someone asks a genuine questions I think we owe it to them to be honest and say there's no science behind it and they're better off getting regular, normal priced cables.


lol, if that's the case, I think I should say that scientific testing involving humans has been leaning towards big data studies since a decade ago. But no matter, I digress.

Bringing this "talk" back to audio, sure I can form a hypothesis, somehow get enough people for a double blind study, and probably recruit a large enough population that represents an "even" number of "cable believers" and "naysayers." If it does "prove" something, which isn't even a thing, in the end, the hypothesis is still a hypothesis. It doesn't magically get upgraded into a theory or law or scientific fact. People would doubt the results due to my stated interest in cables. What about any other confounding variables like the level of experience a listener has? The level of fatigue that day? The gear he/she is testing with? Maybe all these variables are accounted for, then what about validation of my methods? Peer reviews?

What I'm saying is, scientific experimentation isn't just rigorous testing, it takes an accumulation of evidence over time by multiple parties for something to be even considered plausible. Otherwise, you can find any goddamn scientific paper and say that what it concludes is true.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)75696-8/fulltext


----------



## olddude

Whatever.  Both of my Zeus' came originally with silver/copper hybrid cables and, using a fairly detailed (not to say analytical) DAP (the AK SP1000SS) and the incredibly detailed Zeus, the sound hurt my ears as it veered into shrill and thin.  Replacing these cables with a copper cable removed the shrillness and added timbre.  We can argue about whether moving from a 4-wire to an 8-wire of the same cable changes the sound (to me it does), but that hybrid cable shrillness would be apparent to all.  

Other than that, the kind of talk above belongs for the most part, on the Sound Science thread. Here it is just about opinions.


----------



## Wyville

sehnsucht said:


> I think you're missing the point. The scientific process isn't changing.  Construct a hypothesis, test it, is it repeatable etc.  Dunno why you think "big data", testing cables etc is exempt from that.  Personally I have no problem with people pretending silver cables sound better than copper, but when someone asks a genuine questions I think we owe it to them to be honest and say there's no science behind it and they're better off getting regular, normal priced cables.


Look, statements like this just end up in arguments. It is not constructive and this thread is not the place for it. Again, this isn't because the discussion itself can't be interesting, but because people are tired of the endless arguments and want just one thread that is kept free of it. It isn't that people here are anti-science either. To take one part of your statement as an example, I can explain to you in great detail how the scientific process has changed over time and how it continues to evolve because it happens to be my expertise. But really, I just come here to get away from the less than constructive arguments. Let's stick with the spirit in which this thread was created.


----------



## pithyginger63

Wyville said:


> Look, statements like this just end up in arguments. It is not constructive and this thread is not the place for it. Again, this isn't because the discussion itself can't be interesting, but because people are tired of the endless arguments and want just one thread that is kept free of it. It isn't that people here are anti-science either. To take one part of your statement as an example, I can explain to you in great detail how the scientific process has changed over time and how it continues to evolve because it happens to be my expertise. But really, I just come here to get away from the less than constructive arguments. Let's stick with the spirit in which this thread was created.


Let’s just mute him or something


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> Let’s just mute him or something


+1 

Not only that, the dude that asked the original question already stated he’s hearing a difference when going to the gold 16, which renders the whole discussion on “if” there’s a difference pointless


----------



## Wyville

pithyginger63 said:


> Let’s just mute him or something


There's no need for that at all, just keep things lighthearted, friendly and respect people's opinions.


----------



## pithyginger63

Wyville said:


> respect people's opinions


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wyville said:


> There's no need for that at all, just keep things lighthearted, friendly and respect people's opinions.


I’m generally with you there but this is borderline preaching

He’s probably monitoring threads to see if anyone dares mention a cable and bam starts copy pasting his “objective” truths 

Not only that, most of these blind test “studies” are based on speakers for the most part, and as pithy said, the sample sizes and selection are questionable at best - the only thing that speakers and IEMs have in common is that they both produce sound, but the technology in them is fundamentally different 

Not only that, the so called studies are entirely based on short listening times, you get given one cable, music is played and your answer is awaited. Rinse and repeat for X amount of trials 

A good cable doesn’t entirely change the sound, it reveals itself in subtle and specific points where you really marvel at what it is able to do 

Even if it is a placebo, who the **** cares

If I had a Ferrari, I wouldn’t want to put the steering wheel of a Toyota Prius in there, I want the full experience to be 100% Ferrari


----------



## Wyville

mvvRAZ said:


> I’m generally with you there but this is borderline preaching
> 
> He’s probably monitoring threads to see if anyone dares mention a cable and bam starts copy pasting his “objective” truths


It doesn't matter and (in my opinion) it does not help to speculate on someone else's motivations. Just point out that this is not the thread for it and they are welcome to just have a casual chat about cables if they want. Friend of mine thought cables were ridiculous and he still bought really expensive ones because of the ergonomics. That's fine too. This isn't the Sound Science forum, we don't burn heretics at the stake.


----------



## pithyginger63

Wyville said:


> ergonomics


Foreal tho, ergonomics in effect audio cables is downright magical.


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> Foreal tho, ergonomics in effect audio cables is downright magical.


That and looks

A well braided cable with shiny pretty materials and insulation is one of the most satisfying things I’ve owned


----------



## tim0chan

pithyginger63 said:


> Foreal tho, ergonomics in effect audio cables is downright magical.


Until it turns into dried spaghetti after a year


----------



## mvvRAZ

tim0chan said:


> Until it turns into dried spaghetti after a year


Depends on how you use it. If you keep them away from sunlight and humidity they should be fine for however long 

The cable is generally the component that takes the most punishment out of the whole chain, you gotta look after it


----------



## zuber

tim0chan said:


> Until it turns into dried spaghetti after a year



Exactly. It will become stiff and microphonics effect will be huge and annoying.


----------



## tim0chan

mvvRAZ said:


> Depends on how you use it. If you keep them away from sunlight and humidity they should be fine for however long
> 
> The cable is generally the component that takes the most punishment out of the whole chain, you gotta look after it


I buy iems and by extension cables, to be portable .I have iems in my ears all day long, indoors and outdoors. I expect cables to at least survive the year. Effect audio can't do that.


----------



## mvvRAZ

tim0chan said:


> I buy iems and by extension cables, to be portable .I have iems in my ears all day long, indoors and outdoors. I expect cables to at least survive the year. Effect audio can't do that.


No cable without external sleeving can do that, PVC as a material has certain limitations


----------



## tim0chan

mvvRAZ said:


> No cable without external sleeving can do that, PVC as a material has certain limitations


And that's why regrettably, iems with fancy cables are for home use for me


----------



## mvvRAZ

tim0chan said:


> And that's why regrettably, iems with fancy cables are for home use for me


I'm with you there brother.. 

I generally use my Savant II when I'm outside, with a cheap cable that simply gets the job done. When I'm in the office or at home it's the fancy stuff.


----------



## pithyginger63

tim0chan said:


> Until it turns into dried spaghetti after a year


I still can't delay this aside from buying more cables and swapping often.


----------



## tim0chan

mvvRAZ said:


> I'm with you there brother..
> 
> I generally use my Savant II when I'm outside, with a cheap cable that simply gets the job done. When I'm in the office or at home it's the fancy stuff.


Lucky you dont like headphones xD


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> I still can't delay this aside from buying more cables and swapping often.


audiophile logic - if I buy more units, each unit gets less use, each unit lasts longer, I save money. +1 I love it 



tim0chan said:


> Lucky you dont like headphones xD


I’d say the real luck is that I don’t like speakers haha, my unnecessary organs can cover IEMs and headphones, but speakers are a different weight class...


----------



## Wyville

tim0chan said:


> I buy iems and by extension cables, to be portable .I have iems in my ears all day long, indoors and outdoors. I expect cables to at least survive the year. Effect audio can't do that.


How about the PlusSound Poetic series? I honestly have no idea, but I have always been curious to see if the sleeving might help with durability.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wyville said:


> How about the PlusSound Poetic series? I honestly have no idea, but I have always been curious to see if the sleeving might help with durability.


My poetic series have so far been doing great. They're as good as new

There is one issue with sleeving though - dirt and grease. You need to be really careful to not stain the cable in some way, because the only way I can think of to wash it would be by soaking it haha, which doesn't sound too great tbh 

Also any tears in the sleeving end up looking absolutely awful


----------



## Deezel177

mvvRAZ said:


> Also any *tears* in the sleeving end up looking absolutely awful



I read that as _t-ee-rs_, which immediately made me picture you doing this, but with cables instead of bills... or maybe both.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> I read that as _t-ee-rs_, which immediately made me picture you doing this, but with cables instead of bills... or maybe both.


HAHA 

Been testing how many cables it’ll take to cure my depression and so far it’s not 8

Momma didn’t raise no quitter though my quest continues


----------



## pithyginger63

mvvRAZ said:


> audiophile logic - if I buy more units, each unit gets less use, each unit lasts longer, I save money. +1 I love it


 


mvvRAZ said:


> I’d say the real luck is that I don’t like speakers haha, my unnecessary organs can cover IEMs and headphones, but speakers are a different weight class...


yup.... my mother is debating swapping her current speaker ($10000) for another one ($30000).... I'm glad I can appreciate portable audio



Wyville said:


> How about the PlusSound Poetic series? I honestly have no idea, but I have always been curious to see if the sleeving might help with durability.


I've been curious too, just worried that my ear grease is gonna muck up the cable at some point.


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> yup.... my mother is debating swapping her current speaker ($10000) for another one ($30000).... I'm glad I can appreciate portable audio
> 
> 
> I've been curious too, just worried that my ear grease is gonna muck up the cable at some point.


Portable audio looks expensive but in reality a rather large collection can cost as much as one of the towers in a high end speaker setup


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

Plus you need a house to have speakers so they're not homeless friendly like portable audio. 
I've narrowed my search down to the AK PEF22, Effect audio LEO 2 and PW audio 1960 2 wire. Which would you guys recommend or any other thoughts on something that will add an organic smooth, expansive sound without the loss of resolution to and Andromeda. I've read that the PW audio 1960 2 wire is dark smooth while the 4 wire is bright and somewhat harsh revealing?


----------



## mvvRAZ

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> Plus you need a house to have speakers so they're not homeless friendly like portable audio.
> I've narrowed my search down to the AK PEF22, Effect audio LEO 2 and PW audio 1960 2 wire. Which would you guys recommend or any other thoughts on something that will add an organic smooth, expansive sound without the loss of resolution to and Andromeda. I've read that the PW audio 1960 2 wire is dark smooth while the 4 wire is bright and somewhat harsh revealing?


Of those my vote would probably go to the Leo 2, but I have a soft spot for EA 

The Eletech Plato might fit that bill too (elementechnology.com)


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wait actually specifically for the Andromeda - the pure silver litz from Campfire Audio is an exceptional cable and at a fraction of the cost of the others you listen. It works especially well with CA IEMs as they've been designed to work with ALO cables. I personally love my Andromeda S when I had it paired with the pure silver from them


----------



## ChrisIsAwesome

That was actually my second favorite behind the gold 16. Also I've just seen Plus Sound cables which seem reasonably priced compared to competitors.


----------



## mvvRAZ

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> That was actually my second favorite behind the gold 16. Also I've just seen Plus Sound cables which seem reasonably priced compared to competitors.


Depends on which material you choose  They're pretty comparable pricing once you match the materials


----------



## Markus Tappeser

Tha


mvvRAZ said:


> No cable without external sleeving can do that, PVC as a material has certain limitations



That's exactly the reason why I bought the TORFA from Hansound. This cable have a Tetoron braided Jacket. 
I promise myself a longer shelf life.
Of course, this material is more stiff than PVC but ok.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Markus Tappeser said:


> Tha
> 
> 
> That's exactly the reason why I bought the TORFA from Hansound. This cable have a Tetoron braided Jacket.
> ...


Will probably fit your needs better I agree


----------



## Fishdo

Also campfire audio has its sales going on until tomorrow the silver cable is only $49...

here’s the link 

https://aloaudio.deals/shop/aloaudio-pure-siver-iem-cablealoaudio-pure-copper-iem-cable-copy/


----------



## mvvRAZ

Fishdo said:


> Also campfire audio has its sales going on until tomorrow the silver cable is only $49...
> 
> here’s the link
> 
> https://aloaudio.deals/shop/aloaudio-pure-siver-iem-cablealoaudio-pure-copper-iem-cable-copy/


That's a brutal discount :O


----------



## Fishdo

And the Gold is less than half price...

EA also had a sale with 20% off everything... but I have not checked to see if it’s still going on after Friday...

but I am sure others must be also having sales..


----------



## mvvRAZ

Fishdo said:


> And the Gold is less than half price...
> 
> EA also had a sale with 20% off everything... but I have not checked to see if it’s still going on after Friday...
> 
> but I am sure others must be also having sales..


Unfortunately not, the sale ended on Friday. They also had/have 25% off all Empire universal IEMs, got myself a Legend X from that


----------



## Deezel177

ChrisIsAwesome said:


> Plus you need a house to have speakers so they're not homeless friendly like portable audio.
> I've narrowed my search down to the AK PEF22, Effect audio LEO 2 and PW audio 1960 2 wire. Which would you guys recommend or any other thoughts on something that will add an organic smooth, expansive sound without the loss of resolution to and Andromeda. I've read that the PW audio 1960 2 wire is dark smooth while the 4 wire is bright and somewhat harsh revealing?



I'd recommend the 8-wire version of Han Sound Audio's Aegis for those changes.


----------



## Fishdo (Dec 2, 2019)

mvvRAZ said:


> Unfortunately not, the sale ended on Friday. They also had/have 25% off all Empire universal IEMs, got myself a Legend X from that



It’s going on until tomorrow.... there’s discounts on all their cables and iems...

you need to go to Warehouse Deals for CA not the main site...

edit: sorry just realised you meant EA ...


----------



## pithyginger63

@ChrisIsAwesome 

My recommendation: demoing 

Unless it is truly impossible to demo gear, always demo, especially with cables. Make sure you're well rested and that you're really used to the sound you currently have. I find that when I'm tired after a long day, I can't really tell the differences between different cables. Sometimes though, when I'm extra alert, the differences between cables become apparent on first listen, sometimes even surprising me how different they can make the sound.


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> @ChrisIsAwesome
> 
> My recommendation: demoing
> 
> Unless it is truly impossible to demo gear, always demo, especially with cables. Make sure you're well rested and that you're really used to the sound you currently have. I find that when I'm tired after a long day, I can't really tell the differences between different cables. Sometimes though, when I'm extra alert, the differences between cables become apparent on first listen, sometimes even surprising me how different they can make the sound.


Or, and hear me out here

Just buy any and every cable with gold in it, you're bound to like it if it has sufficient gold in there amIrite


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> @ChrisIsAwesome
> 
> My recommendation: demoing
> 
> Unless it is truly impossible to demo gear, always demo, especially with cables. Make sure you're well rested and that you're really used to the sound you currently have. I find that when I'm tired after a long day, I can't really tell the differences between different cables. Sometimes though, when I'm extra alert, the differences between cables become apparent on first listen, sometimes even surprising me how different they can make the sound.


The alcohol addiction equivalent to your gold addiction would be someone who drinks commercial samples of perfume because they have ethanol in them


----------



## pithyginger63

me: turns mother's jewelry into iem cables


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> me: turns mother's jewelry into iem cables


On that topic, my grandmother asked me if she can repurpose some of my cables... 

Luckily effect audio sent me two of their bracelets as a gift for my two Octas, so she’s happily wearing an IEM cable now haha


----------



## pithyginger63

mvvRAZ said:


> On that topic, my grandmother asked me if she can repurpose some of my cables...
> 
> Luckily effect audio sent me two of their bracelets as a gift for my two Octas, so she’s happily wearing an IEM cable now haha


I forgot that there were those cable bracelets, would totally wear one


----------



## Tristy

Has anyone heard the 6 wire version and the 8 wire version of the same cable and are able to comment on any differences in the sound? I’m not able to find a massive amount using the search function


----------



## mvvRAZ

Tristy said:


> Has anyone heard the 6 wire version and the 8 wire version of the same cable and are able to comment on any differences in the sound? I’m not able to find a massive amount using the search function


I think your best bet is to directly ask plussound on their thread (I assume you’re debating between X6 and X8), they’re really nice people that imo will give you honest recommendations

When I was looking for a cable they gave me great advice and it wasn’t simply “pick the most expensive options”


----------



## twister6

Tristy said:


> Has anyone heard the 6 wire version and the 8 wire version of the same cable and are able to comment on any differences in the sound? I’m not able to find a massive amount using the search function



In general, the more wires - the less resistance, and the other way around.  So, considering the same source, the same pair of IEMs (thus, the same drivers, crossover, etc.), the same wire material, the same connectors/plugs, and the same solder (in case if some fancy high end Mundorf solder is used) - the change in sound should ONLY be driven by the resistance change of that cable which can affect the FR response of the drivers.  But how it will change?  Personally, I think it will not be as easy to generalize that sound change description since it will be specific to DAP/IEM pair up.


----------



## Tristy

mvvRAZ said:


> I think your best bet is to directly ask plussound on their thread (I assume you’re debating between X6 and X8), they’re really nice people that imo will give you honest recommendations
> 
> When I was looking for a cable they gave me great advice and it wasn’t simply “pick the most expensive options”




I’ve asked and received a response but it’s nice getting a second, unbiased opinion.


----------



## Tristy

twister6 said:


> In general, the more wires - the less resistance, and the other way around.  So, considering the same source, the same pair of IEMs (thus, the same drivers, crossover, etc.), the same wire material, the same connectors/plugs, and the same solder (in case if some fancy high end Mundorf solder is used) - the change in sound should ONLY be driven by the resistance change of that cable which can affect the FR response of the drivers.  But how it will change?  Personally, I think it will not be as easy to generalize that sound change description since it will be specific to DAP/IEM pair up.



Makes sense, thanks for the reply


----------



## buonassi

Wyville said:


> This isn't the Sound Science forum, we don't burn heretics at the stake.



LoL - I was witness to your written flogging.  It was brutal.  



pithyginger63 said:


> Foreal tho, ergonomics in effect audio cables is downright magical.





tim0chan said:


> Until it turns into dried spaghetti after a year





tim0chan said:


> I expect cables to at least survive the year. Effect audio can't do that.





mvvRAZ said:


> No cable without external sleeving can do that



Well, it's mostly PVC that'll harden after a few months.  Funnily enough, I've had PlusSound cables that hardened after a few months (Gold+Silver), and yet their cheaper 28awg 'ready to ship' cable (2 years old now) is still as flexible as the day I bought it - and I've used it exponentially more than the others.  It must be a different insulation material despite being marketed as 'new PS insulation' on both products. 

Effect Audio and PW Audio I have owned turned to straight up bird plumes over time.  I will actually be selling a brand new unused EA cable I nabbed a while back - I totally forgot about the 6 month ergos of EA cables for the oily skinned heathen that I am.

Triton Audio offers teflon sheathed conductors.  They're not as supple as others, and they're not litz configured, but this cable also has withstood the test of time without any hardening.  I've used my Triton 4 almost as much as the 'ready to ship' plussound I mentioned.  Actually, I just bought another one because I know it'll last and I wanted one with nicer components/solder joints.  It's also my favorite sounding pure copper conductor so far - smooooth without rolled off highs.

Triton Audio also has litz 24.5 awg conductors covered in TPU.  This is showing signs of lasting long as well, though it's a bit too early to tell.


----------



## tim0chan

buonassi said:


> LoL - I was witness to your written flogging.  It was brutal.
> 
> Plussound ready to ship cable seems like the way to go then
> 
> ...


----------



## buonassi

tim0chan said:


> Plussound ready to ship cable seems like the way to go then


Well, their selection is very limited.  And the ready to ship variants are 28awg and not the 26awg that their normal cables are.  You can tell the insulation is different as there is more of a cloudy hue to it


----------



## Wyville

buonassi said:


> LoL - I was witness to your written flogging.  It was brutal.


Lessoned learned. I will stick with students who at the very least try to put in a minimal effort in order to pass the course.


----------



## Wes S

To all,

I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I am trying to figure out the name of the new cable company, that was a former Effect Audio employee, and went out on his own recently.

Thanks,

Wes


----------



## Deezel177

Wes S said:


> To all,
> 
> I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I am trying to figure out the name of the new cable company, that was a former Effect Audio employee, and went out on his own recently.
> 
> ...



That would be Eletech by @Eric Chong.


----------



## Wes S (Dec 4, 2019)

Deezel177 said:


> That would be Eletech by @Eric Chong.


Awesome! I thought so, but was not sure.  Thanks man!  I was just on their site, and those cables look incredible.  The Fortitude is at the top of my list to pair with K10U, at the moment.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll drop this here 

https://www.headfonia.com/hansound-torfa-review/


----------



## Markus Tappeser

Ultrainferno said:


> I'll drop this here
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/hansound-torfa-review/



Hi Ultrainferno,

thanks for your great review. 
I got my cable for about over one week and I must admit that you have put the sound quality very aptly into words. It's so relaxing to listen music through this cable.

I love the Tetoron braided Jacket, you feel the high quality. 
One thing, in my opinion, you gloss over something, it's the friction noise, the noise needs getting used to, especially with quiet music.

Nevertheless, a clear purchase recommendation. 

Cheers!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Sound Eq said:


> did anyone try any of those null audio  cables 130-230 usd
> 
> like for example the TIBURON
> 
> https://www.null-audio.com/collections/iem-headphone-cable



Hey, so I bought the Tubiron couple of weeks ago and was extremely impressed. I got the Herringbone 8 braid so that upped the cost quite a bit. But it was worth it. I am pairing it with my Andromeda now. It's copper in its all goodness. I don't believe a cable can drastically change the sound of an IEM but it does clear out imperfections, noises, micro-phonics etc. And believe me, this cable is a winner in all those areas. Andros being a super sensitive IEM in its own right is susceptible to hiss a lot. The cable minimizes a lot of that. This of course will vary on your source but I feel the Andros are now more balanced and the upper end (strange that someone would praise the high frequencies when  talking about a copper cable) are very detailed even over the fact that it is already super detailed in the Andromeda. 


Most importantly, the build and craftsmanship. These are the best braids I have ever encountered (rivaling the Effect Audio Thor). It is a pure work of art. Hand made, strands that follow the Litz philosophy but goes beyond in the top end. No memory wire, no heatshrink. You can wear it straight down or over ear (which I do) and being super comfortable at it. The weaves and cores are visible (see the pictures) and I can just look at them and praise them without my IEM on.  Also, you will never feel that it may break or fray cause the build is that strong. I confidently lug it around my jacket pocket crashing with chains etc. but I am never scared of the cable being broken, rather my jacket's chain might - so strong is the Herrington 8 braid upgrade. 

Another very important thing is, Null Audio's Symphonym series is like a 5-star experience with valet, caviar etc. when it comes to presentation. I would justify the price even if the box came in empty really. There is a beautify leather coverd hard box which houses a rounded metallic case holding the cable. Below that there is a certification of the people who handmade it. Finally, you get a card that says, "This high quality hand crafted premium cable was customized and built for ... <your name>" That's like the red carpet treatment. Null Audio really has a way of feeling the customers special and I truly respect that. 

It's a 10/10 for me. When someone like me dished out $273 on an IEM cable and still says it's worth it, I think it's the biggest compliment I can give.


----------



## hamhamhamsta

Adnan Firoze said:


> Hey, so I bought the Tubiron couple of weeks ago and was extremely impressed. I got the Herringbone 8 braid so that upped the cost quite a bit. But it was worth it. I am pairing it with my Andromeda now. It's copper in its all goodness. I don't believe a cable can drastically change the sound of an IEM but it does clear out imperfections, noises, micro-phonics etc. And believe me, this cable is a winner in all those areas. Andros being a super sensitive IEM in its own right is susceptible to hiss a lot. The cable minimizes a lot of that. This of course will vary on your source but I feel the Andros are now more balanced and the upper end (strange that someone would praise the high frequencies when  talking about a copper cable) are very detailed even over the fact that it is already super detailed in the Andromeda.
> 
> 
> Most importantly, the build and craftsmanship. These are the best braids I have ever encountered (rivaling the Effect Audio Thor). It is a pure work of art. Hand made, strands that follow the Litz philosophy but goes beyond in the top end. No memory wire, no heatshrink. You can wear it straight down or over ear (which I do) and being super comfortable at it. The weaves and cores are visible (see the pictures) and I can just look at them and praise them without my IEM on.  Also, you will never feel that it may break or fray cause the build is that strong. I confidently lug it around my jacket pocket crashing with chains etc. but I am never scared of the cable being broken, rather my jacket's chain might - so strong is the Herrington 8 braid upgrade.
> ...


Lol you’ve been bitten by the cable bug


----------



## Adnan Firoze

hamhamhamsta said:


> Lol you’ve been bitten by the cable bug



yessir .


----------



## Spidermanxd

hamhamhamsta said:


> Lol you’ve been bitten by the cable bug


I didn't know cable have bug in them


----------



## mvvRAZ

Full impressions for Plato (and pics) and the Iliad tomorrow! Today - porn


----------



## SeeSax

Amazing-looking cable! Nice photos!

But dude...single-ended?!?!


----------



## mvvRAZ

SeeSax said:


> Amazing-looking cable! Nice photos!
> 
> But dude...single-ended?!?!


I know, I get that a lot

I much much prefer the single ended sound - balanced sounds too energetic to me, somewhat warm. Single ended just feels much better to me and I tend to use my iems with the RME ADI 2 a lot, which doesn’t have 2.5 

Team 3.5 leggo!!


----------



## Deferenz

Has anyone matched the EA Leonidas II with the 64 Audio tia Trio? If you have what are your thoughts on this combination?


----------



## _reechard

pithyginger63 said:


> for the Khan(which I have no experience with) really any gold plated silver cable would do I think, but a thicker gold coating will provide more warmth and body by increasing decay length of transients. I've tried the OC AuX which has a huge subbass.
> 
> for the Trio(which I also have no experience with), choose a pure silver cable, though maybe not the Thor series. Agni Mk ii and Effect Audio Cleopatra are good choices. Cleo is the more transparent of the two though both will be unforgiving to a lot of music.



You seem to have experience with both the Thor II and the Han Sound Agni II and I'd like to know your thoughts on both.

I'm currently using the Thor II with the Legend X and Sony NW-ZX300 and the sound is a tiny bit too warm for my liking, and I'm looking to get a little more treble out of my cable but without losing too much bass. I find the Thor II to have a little bit of graininess as well which I don't like either. For comparison, I find the bass on the Ares II lacking.


----------



## singleended5863

The new Vogue series have amazing sub bass and bass but the treble and midrange are not bad at all. My Spartan didn’t get any or little bass with Ares II and Eros II (all 8 wire) but the Maestro adds good bass to them. Love it!


----------



## pithyginger63 (Dec 19, 2019)

_reechard said:


> You seem to have experience with both the Thor II and the Han Sound Agni II and I'd like to know your thoughts on both.
> 
> I'm currently using the Thor II with the Legend X and Sony NW-ZX300 and the sound is a tiny bit too warm for my liking, and I'm looking to get a little more treble out of my cable but without losing too much bass. I find the Thor II to have a little bit of graininess as well which I don't like either. For comparison, I find the bass on the Ares II lacking.


The day I tried the Thor II, my ears weren't in their best condition but I remember the Agni ii being grainier and thinner. The Agni ii I'd describe as neutral with a little bit of that etched feeling. Transients and attack are fast with very little decay. It brings out timbral detail in particular, and is quite close to the Cleopatra in timbral presentation though the Cleo is more V shaped and has shorter subbass decay. The Thor ii wasn't too drastic a change iirc, but I tried it right off the heals of the amazing crystal cable dream duet

Something about the Agni ii, it feels like you lose bass decay but what you loose, you gain in the attack. Agni ii's bass hits harder than other cables, especially in the subbass regions. After getting used to the Agni, other cables seem light on bass, even if they have more decay

Another thing cause I'm bored, I am the god of gold cables but gold cables actually have a major flaw with resolution imo. Aside from the really really high end cables like horus, all gold plated cables have sounded veiled in comparison to pure silver cables. Part of it might be because gold is the worst conductor among gold, copper, and silver, and performance varies a lot based on the thickness of the gold plating.


----------



## _reechard

pithyginger63 said:


> The day I tried the Thor II, my ears weren't in their best condition but I remember the Agni ii being grainier and thinner. The Agni ii I'd describe as neutral with a little bit of that etched feeling. Transients and attack are fast with very little decay. It brings out timbral detail in particular, and is quite close to the Cleopatra in timbral presentation though the Cleo is more V shaped and has shorter subbass decay. The Thor ii wasn't too drastic a change iirc, but I tried it right off the heals of the amazing crystal cable dream duet
> 
> Something about the Agni ii, it feels like you lose bass decay but what you loose, you gain in the attack. Agni ii's bass hits harder than other cables, especially in the subbass regions. After getting used to the Agni, other cables seem light on bass, even if they have more decay
> 
> Another thing cause I'm bored, I am the god of gold cables but gold cables actually have a major flaw with resolution imo. Aside from the really really high end cables like horus, all gold plated cables have sounded veiled in comparison to pure silver cables. Part of it might be because gold is the worst conductor among gold, copper, and silver, and performance varies a lot based on the thickness of the gold plating.



Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I'll give the Agni II a try and see how I like it.


----------



## pithyginger63

_reechard said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I'll give the Agni II a try and see how I like it.


I whole heartedly recommend it. It's one of my favorite cables in its price range


----------



## pithyginger63

mvvRAZ said:


> I know, I get that a lot
> 
> I much much prefer the single ended sound - balanced sounds too energetic to me, somewhat warm. Single ended just feels much better to me and I tend to use my iems with the RME ADI 2 a lot, which doesn’t have 2.5
> 
> Team 3.5 leggo!!


I've actually had a friend say balanced sounds crossfed and narrower. maybe you're onto something


----------



## Wes S (Dec 19, 2019)

singleended5863 said:


> The new Vogue series have amazing sub bass and bass but the treble and midrange are not bad at all. My Spartan didn’t get any or little bass with Ares II and Eros II (all 8 wire) but the Maestro adds good bass to them. Love it!


I currently have the Maestro on my K10U, and concur.  The bass is killer, but what surprised me is the air, separation and imaging are awesome as well.  However, I have a Satin Audio Athena on the way, so the Maestro might get replaced.


----------



## mvvRAZ

pithyginger63 said:


> I've actually had a friend say balanced sounds crossfed and narrower. maybe you're onto something


Exactly - less separation, more intensity but ultimately a less “refined” experience


----------



## Tristy

_reechard said:


> You seem to have experience with both the Thor II and the Han Sound Agni II and I'd like to know your thoughts on both.
> 
> I'm currently using the Thor II with the Legend X and Sony NW-ZX300 and the sound is a tiny bit too warm for my liking, and I'm looking to get a little more treble out of my cable but without losing too much bass. I find the Thor II to have a little bit of graininess as well which I don't like either. For comparison, I find the bass on the Ares II lacking.



look into the plussound X8 which pinkypowers did a review on against the Thor silver II 8 wire and actually preferred in most aspects, including dynamic, air, soundstage and bass with the Legend x


----------



## Wes S

mvvRAZ said:


> Exactly - less separation, more intensity but ultimately a less “refined” experience


Interesting stuff!  In the full sized cans world, where I used to hang out, balanced is the way to go.  However, I have only been using 3.5 since I got into iems, and have no complaints.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wes S said:


> Interesting stuff!  In the full sized cans world, where I used to hang out, balanced is the way to go.  However, I have only been using 3.5 since I got into iems, and have no complaints.


I’d say power plays much more of a role with HPs than IEMs, especially consider how low the power requirements of BAs are


----------



## Wes S

mvvRAZ said:


> I’d say power plays much more of a role with HPs than IEMs, especially consider how low the power requirements of BAs are


That makes sense.


----------



## Deezel177

Wes S said:


> Interesting stuff!  In the full sized cans world, where I used to hang out, balanced is the way to go.  However, I have only been using 3.5 since I got into iems, and have no complaints.



Arguing balanced vs. single-ended is an incredibly pointless affair. It all depends on how the amp manufacturer implements each circuit. Sometimes a DAP will have SE and BAL outputs that sound the same, or that offer entirely different tonalities, etc. I’ve yet to find a trend that defines an _SE sound_ or a _BAL sound_.


----------



## _reechard

Tristy said:


> look into the plussound X8 which pinkypowers did a review on against the Thor silver II 8 wire and actually preferred in most aspects, including dynamic, air, soundstage and bass with the Legend x



This one is now definitely on my list, thanks!


----------



## Wes S

Deezel177 said:


> Arguing balanced vs. single-ended is an incredibly pointless affair. It all depends on how the amp manufacturer implements each circuit. Sometimes a DAP will have SE and BAL outputs that sound the same, or that offer entirely different tonalities, etc. I’ve yet to find a trend that defines an _SE sound_ or a _BAL sound_.


That makes sense.  Don’t think anyone was arguing, but get your point.


----------



## Deezel177

Wes S said:


> That makes sense.  Don’t think anyone was arguing, but get your point.



I think _comparing_ was a more apt word to use.


----------



## Fishdo

_reechard said:


> You seem to have experience with both the Thor II and the Han Sound Agni II and I'd like to know your thoughts on both.
> 
> I'm currently using the Thor II with the Legend X and Sony NW-ZX300 and the sound is a tiny bit too warm for my liking, and I'm looking to get a little more treble out of my cable but without losing too much bass. I find the Thor II to have a little bit of graininess as well which I don't like either. For comparison, I find the bass on the Ares II lacking.



For me having had the Thor II and wanting the same as you I went with the Cleopatra and I was very glad I did...

Though you could also look at the Lionheart... that was a warm sound whilst offering a similar brightness of the Thor II...

I preferred the lionheart and Cleopatra over the Thor... but Cleopatra over all the other silvers I have had...

Worth a look and a listen (if you can that is)


----------



## _reechard

Fishdo said:


> For me having had the Thor II and wanting the same as you I went with the Cleopatra and I was very glad I did...
> 
> Though you could also look at the Lionheart... that was a warm sound whilst offering a similar brightness of the Thor II...
> 
> ...



I bit the bullet last night and already ordered the Agni II, but I'll report back on how I find it


----------



## Fishdo

That’s great mate... hopefully you will have it very soon and Xmas won’t slow things down...

looking forward to hearing your opinions on it ...


----------



## noobandroid

anyone have the dunu hulk or anything like them, say.. OSLO or maybe MEE x drop iem cable? thinking of getting a modular adapter iem cable


----------



## Wes S (Dec 24, 2019)

I am a happy new owner of an Athena 8 wire, and this cable is insane! I am absolutely blown away, by the performance of this cable. I am using it with my Noble K10U, and this pairing is incredible. The Athena cable is like adding a really good tube amp in the chain, and took my K10U to a completely new level of performance. With the Athena connected to my K10U, it is literally like a new dimension has opened up and things really became 3d like. The depth and height of the soundstage has increased, and sounds explode all around my head, coming from a completely black background. The bass hits hard and digs super deep, and the mids have this amazing euphonic texture, with the best vocals I have ever heard, and the highs have the perfect amount of sparkle for my taste. Words to describe the overall sound would be, organic/natural and powerful yet still resolving. This cable is worth every penny, and could make anyone a believer.

I just read what I wrote and it sounds like I might be exaggerating, but I am not. 

Noble K10U + Satin Audio Athena 8 wire = ENDGAME


----------



## ceeloChamp (Dec 27, 2019)

Hey does anyone know if Ediolic (or any other high-end company) makes a non-recessed 2-pin connector?

My Elysium fit really well, but they are kind of deep and when I take them out I am kind of bending the 2-pins of any cable other than their stock one.


----------



## Wyville

ceeloChamp said:


> Hey does anyone know if Ediolic (or any other high-end company) makes a non-recessed 2-pin connector?
> 
> My Elysium fit really well, but they are kind of deep and when I take them out I am kind of bending the 2-pins of any cable other than their stock one.


Do you mean like this?


----------



## ceeloChamp

Wyville said:


> Do you mean like this?



Precisely like that, thank you you beautiful angel...if I wanted to source just those 2-pin connectors though, do you know who would sell them?


----------



## Wyville

ceeloChamp said:


> Precisely like that, thank you you beautiful angel...if I wanted to source just those 2-pin connectors though, do you know who would sell them?


[Blushes] 

I honestly have no idea because I have so far only seen them with Effect Audio as an option. Maybe you can ask if they sell them as DIY parts. Or else check with PlusSound, as they sell DIY parts, although as far as I know not these type of connectors.


----------



## ceeloChamp

Thanks for the info, I will send out some feelers and see if anyone knows where they source them/if anyone makes them at the same quality as other TOTL connectors.


----------



## olddude

I love my Ares ll 8-wire cables.  I use them while walking (I have a life at home that generally precludes listening while on the couch or in a chair) and have no issues with "heaviness" or thickness.  My only unhappiness about them is that EA consistently refuses to put a slider on them (and I have asked numerous times, nicely), so I've had to make one from thin leather string.  Sound is truly satisfying.  I'm curious about the Eletechs, but am waiting until SoCal CanJam this summer to try them (Eric said he'd be there).  My Zeus (which is not warm) and my SP1000 (which is not warm) pretty much demand a copper cable.  I'm a true believer in 8 vs. 4, as I had the 4's first and the 8's expanded the already wide soundstage, improved the already good placement, and added a bit of lower and upper end without losing the transparency and sparkle I value in my combination.


----------



## mvvRAZ

olddude said:


> I love my Ares ll 8-wire cables.  I use them while walking (I have a life at home that generally precludes listening while on the couch or in a chair) and have no issues with "heaviness" or thickness.  My only unhappiness about them is that EA consistently refuses to put a slider on them (and I have asked numerous times, nicely), so I've had to make one from thin leather string.  Sound is truly satisfying.  I'm curious about the Eletechs, but am waiting until SoCal CanJam this summer to try them (Eric said he'd be there).  My Zeus (which is not warm) and my SP1000 (which is not warm) pretty much demand a copper cable.  I'm a true believer in 8 vs. 4, as I had the 4's first and the 8's expanded the already wide soundstage, improved the already good placement, and added a bit of lower and upper end without losing the transparency and sparkle I value in my combination.


Regarding the Eletechs - I can wholeheartedly recommend the Iliad but the rest of their lineup isn’t quite there yet. Sounds good but the insulation (as will be covered in the review) is pretty mediocre


----------



## twister6

Code 51 review is up!  Enjoy the read


----------



## Fishdo

twister6 said:


> Code 51 review is up!  Enjoy the read



Thanks mate I enjoyed your review, as always, I would love to try this cable but there is little chance of that... let alone actually buying one... 

But I can enjoy it vicariously through your review...

Thanks again


----------



## NovaFlyer

twister6 said:


> Code 51 review is up!  Enjoy the read



Thanks for another great review!    Planning on giving it a try at CanJam NYC in Feb.


----------



## twister6

NovaFlyer said:


> Thanks for another great review!    Planning on giving it a try at CanJam NYC in Feb.



I think it will be at Musicteck table, all EA cables.


----------



## SeeSax

mvvRAZ said:


> Regarding the Eletechs - I can wholeheartedly recommend the Iliad but the rest of their lineup isn’t quite there yet. Sounds good but the insulation (as will be covered in the review) is pretty mediocre



Are they stiff? Microphonic? Not being super duper soft isn’t a terrible thing as they may last longer. A lot of soft EA cables have proven to get stiff over time, so maybe this was a design choice? The PW 1950 and 1980 are both pretty stiff and lack the supple feel of some other cables, but they’re still outstanding cables. How bad are they?


----------



## mvvRAZ

SeeSax said:


> Are they stiff? Microphonic? Not being super duper soft isn’t a terrible thing as they may last longer. A lot of soft EA cables have proven to get stiff over time, so maybe this was a design choice? The PW 1950 and 1980 are both pretty stiff and lack the supple feel of some other cables, but they’re still outstanding cables. How bad are they?


They aren’t microphonic but they are very stiff. It just feels wrong, or well cheap somehow - the insulation I mean. The hardware is the best I’ve come across

If you’ve ever had a 4 or 6w super stiff labkable - they’re exactly like that


----------



## _reechard

I've had the Han Sound Agni II for about a week now and I much prefer it over the Thor II; exactly what I was looking for. The improved ergonomics are a plus too. Thanks again for the recommendation.


----------



## NovaFlyer

twister6 said:


> I think it will be at Musicteck table, all EA cables.



Thanks.  With EA showing up, I'm figuring they would have one as well.  Also looking forward to trying the new EleTech cables as well.


----------



## dubbcd

Still the best.




by dubbcd on Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org


----------



## audio123 (Jan 3, 2020)

Acoustune HS1670 SS + Han Sound Agni II. I really like how the Agni II increases the overall clarity aptly whilst still maintaining the body. There is an airier feeling at the top end with more crisp. The presentation is controlled with excellent extension on both ends. A highly recommended silver cable.


----------



## Deezel177

Hey everyone! 'Just published my review of PW Audio's brand-new No. 10 IEM cable. It's a vivid and wholesome-sounding cable, and one of the most powerful I've heard in its price range. As always, I hope you enjoy. Cheers! 

*PW Audio No. 10 - Value in Vigor*

​


----------



## NickL33

Deezel177 said:


> Hey everyone! 'Just published my review of PW Audio's brand-new No. 10 IEM cable. It's a vivid and wholesome-sounding cable, and one of the most powerful I've heard in its price range. As always, I hope you enjoy. Cheers!
> 
> *PW Audio No. 10 - Value in Vigor*
> 
> ​



Do you think the 8wire version No.10 worth to get?


----------



## Wes S

NickL33 said:


> Do you think the 8wire version No.10 worth to get?


I am quite curious as well.  I see you have a Medusa coming, and that is another cable I am interested in.  Do you have the Medusa 2 coming, or the first version?


----------



## NickL33

Wes S said:


> I am quite curious as well.  I see you have a Medusa coming, and that is another cable I am interested in.  Do you have the Medusa 2 coming, or the first version?



My bad, I already have the Medusa with me already, was one of the last few people to get it before it was replace with the 2nd gen.

The merdusa is mainly for my Z1R to get the extra treble spark and extension but since I have done the “mod”, Medusa makes it too thin sounding.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wes S said:


> I am quite curious as well.  I see you have a Medusa coming, and that is another cable I am interested in.  Do you have the Medusa 2 coming, or the first version?


I have a Medusa coming from toxic in a few weeks, will be able to provide some impressions of that


----------



## Wes S

mvvRAZ said:


> I have a Medusa coming from toxic in a few weeks, will be able to provide some impressions of that


Cool!  I was actually referring to the Satin Audio Medusa.  I did not know Toxic was back, but curious about that too.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wes S said:


> Cool!  I was actually referring to the Satin Audio Medusa.  I did not know Toxic was back, but curious about that too.


Oooh mb

yeah they are - huge waiting line at the moment though  and come to think of it I have the silver and black widow from toxic coming, not the Medusa - mb


----------



## pithyginger63

NickL33 said:


> Do you think the 8wire version No.10 worth to get?


hello fellow member of dog clan


----------



## Deezel177

NickL33 said:


> Do you think the 8wire version No.10 worth to get?



I can’t say. I haven’t tried the 8-wire version yet. I’ll let you know if/when I do.


----------



## NovaFlyer

Deezel177 said:


> Hey everyone! 'Just published my review of PW Audio's brand-new No. 10 IEM cable. It's a vivid and wholesome-sounding cable, and one of the most powerful I've heard in its price range. As always, I hope you enjoy. Cheers!
> 
> *PW Audio No. 10 - Value in Vigor*
> 
> ​



Thanks for another great review.  Hopefully I can give it a try at CanJam NYC next month.


----------



## Deezel177

NovaFlyer said:


> Thanks for another great review.  Hopefully I can give it a try at CanJam NYC next month.



Cheers! 'Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## twister6

NovaFlyer said:


> Thanks for another great review.  Hopefully I can give it a try at CanJam NYC next month.



I could be wrong, but was under impression No10 will be released first at Music Sanctuary in SGP, thus don't think Musicteck will have it at their table next month.  If I don't forget, I might bring No 10 to the show.


----------



## NovaFlyer

twister6 said:


> I could be wrong, but was under impression No10 will be released first at Music Sanctuary in SGP, thus don't think Musicteck will have it at their table next month.  If I don't forget, I might bring No 10 to the show.



That would be awesome.  Look forward to meeting you.


----------



## audio123

NovaFlyer said:


> That would be awesome.  Look forward to meeting you.


Get @twister6 to sign on your IEMs/DAPs too


----------



## bukumurah

Hi, I am looking for owners of Dita OSLO cables.. my less than one year old cables have started to turn green/oxidize (!).. how about yours? I expected the OSLO to last much longer after the oil soaked treatment..

Will add pictures later..

Cheers!


----------



## corygrapher

Which one is the best for spiral ear SE5WAY? Thanks.


----------



## Kerouac

corygrapher said:


> Which one is the best for spiral ear SE5WAY? Thanks.



Wow, you're obviously a huge fan of Grzegorz work. Owning already 3 of his models with 2 others on their way to you 

I don't own a SE5 Way, but was lucky that I could get a SE5 Ult on a loan for several weeks in a row.
The owner was also a reviewer on THL and he wrote: _I tend to usually listen to the 5-Way with its stock cable, despite an adequate arsenal of cables on hand. It’s partially because the recessed silicone sockets can be a pain to use with upgrade cables, but mostly because the pairing works just fine. The 5-Way constructs a warmer stage structure, and the OFC’s warm tone seems to dissolve in it. There are enough cables that create an airier sound. But this isn’t a stage that was intended to sound analytically clean. Similarly, its laid-back treble might not have the most sparkle, but contributes to the naturalness of the presentation.
_
I didn't swap cables with his SE5 as I didn't want to take the risk damaging the sockets, it wasn't mine afterall. But if you really want more air / sparkle a silver cable would probably suit best.
If budget ain't an issue for you, you might want to try something like the EA Horus, as that cable brings a lot of air / clarity to the table.

Oh, and I'm not sure if a Chord Mojo (which you are looking for according to your signature) would be able to bring out the best out of the SE5. I really liked the pairing with my Lotoo Paw Gold. So maybe it's worth taking a look at their new daps (similar signature with blacker background) LP Touch and the Paw 6K as well.

Anyway, good luck with your cable hunt


----------



## Sound Eq

any advise what to pair the following with

1- Jhaudio lola-- I think I need to tame a bit 4-6khz, and add more warmth and body to the cable
2- Jhaudio angie- I think I need to add more body to the sound, tonality is good as is
3- Jhaudio roxanne-- I will get it today, so any recommendations

I am driving these with ibasso dx220 stock amp

Budget wise up to 600 usd for each, but prefer to stick lower cost if possible


----------



## Deezel177

Sound Eq said:


> any advise what to pair the following with
> 
> 1- Jhaudio lola-- I think I need to tame a bit 4-6khz, and add more warmth and body to the cable
> 2- Jhaudio angie- I think I need to add more body to the sound, tonality is good as is
> ...



Effect Audio’s Thor Silver II sounds like what you’re looking for for the Lola. It brings body and midrange presence, whilst also taming the treble spike. Their Maestro is a good alternative, but I don’t know whether or not they can make a JH-ready version of it with 8 wires and the bass pod.

For the Angie, Han Sound Audio’s 8-wire Aegis would certainly add body without colouring the tone too much.


----------



## Sound Eq (Jan 15, 2020)

Deezel177 said:


> Effect Audio’s Thor Silver II sounds like what you’re looking for for the Lola. It brings body and midrange presence, whilst also taming the treble spike. Their Maestro is a good alternative, but I don’t know whether or not they can make a JH-ready version of it with 8 wires and the bass pod.
> 
> For the Angie, Han Sound Audio’s 8-wire Aegis would certainly add body without colouring the tone too much.


so the silver II they make can they make a jhaudio with 8 wires with bass boost, would the silver not add more details as that is not what i am looking for


----------



## corygrapher

Kerouac said:


> Wow, you're obviously a huge fan of Grzegorz work. Owning already 3 of his models with 2 others on their way to you
> 
> I don't own a SE5 Way, but was lucky that I could get a SE5 Ult on a loan for several weeks in a row.
> The owner was also a reviewer on THL and he wrote: _I tend to usually listen to the 5-Way with its stock cable, despite an adequate arsenal of cables on hand. It’s partially because the recessed silicone sockets can be a pain to use with upgrade cables, but mostly because the pairing works just fine. The 5-Way constructs a warmer stage structure, and the OFC’s warm tone seems to dissolve in it. There are enough cables that create an airier sound. But this isn’t a stage that was intended to sound analytically clean. Similarly, its laid-back treble might not have the most sparkle, but contributes to the naturalness of the presentation.
> ...


Wow. Thank you very much for your response!


----------



## Sound Eq

Wes S said:


> I am a happy new owner of an Athena 8 wire, and this cable is insane! I am absolutely blown away, by the performance of this cable. I am using it with my Noble K10U, and this pairing is incredible. The Athena cable is like adding a really good tube amp in the chain, and took my K10U to a completely new level of performance. With the Athena connected to my K10U, it is literally like a new dimension has opened up and things really became 3d like. The depth and height of the soundstage has increased, and sounds explode all around my head, coming from a completely black background. The bass hits hard and digs super deep, and the mids have this amazing euphonic texture, with the best vocals I have ever heard, and the highs have the perfect amount of sparkle for my taste. Words to describe the overall sound would be, organic/natural and powerful yet still resolving. This cable is worth every penny, and could make anyone a believer.
> 
> I just read what I wrote and it sounds like I might be exaggerating, but I am not.
> 
> Noble K10U + Satin Audio Athena 8 wire = ENDGAME


i was recommended this cable by music sanctury for my jhaudio lola, wonder if it will be better than ares or Exo gold plated copper .


----------



## Wes S (Jan 16, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> i was recommended this cable by music sanctury for my jhaudio lola, wonder if it will be better than ares or Exo gold plated copper .


The Athena 8 wire is a beast!  You want some bass extension and smooth but still well extended highs, and forward vocals, this is the cable.  Makes my Ares II 4 wire sound thin, in comparison.


----------



## Sound Eq

Wes S said:


> The Athena 8 wire is a beast!  You want some bass extension and smooth but still well extended highs, and forward vocals, this is the cable.  Makes my Ares II 4 wire sound thin, in comparison.


that is exactly what i want


----------



## Wes S (Jan 16, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> that is exactly what i want


Satin is making some very nice stuff and their new hardware is supposed to be better quality, than their original shown in pics on the Music Sanctuary website.


----------



## corygrapher

Wes S said:


> The Athena 8 wire is a beast!  You want some bass extension and smooth but still well extended highs, and forward vocals, this is the cable.  Makes my Ares II 4 wire sound thin, in comparison.



I heard that Athena 8w sounds similar to but a lot cheaper than lionheart 4w, while lionheart 4w is considered to be upgraded ver of Ares ii. Wonder how it pairs with my se5way.


----------



## Wes S

corygrapher said:


> I heard that Athena 8w sounds similar to but a lot cheaper than lionheart 4w, while lionheart 4w is considered to be upgraded ver of Ares ii. Wonder how it pairs with my se5way.


I was actually looking at the Lionheart, before I got the Athena 8 wire.  However, I have seen 3 Lionhearts that have turned green, listed in the classifieds recently, which I thought was strange and concerning.


----------



## Wyville

corygrapher said:


> I heard that Athena 8w sounds similar to but a lot cheaper than lionheart 4w, while lionheart 4w is considered to be upgraded ver of Ares ii. Wonder how it pairs with my se5way.


I think you might have misunderstood that. The Athena uses similar materials to Leonidas II. Leonidas II 4W is $888, while the Athena 8W is $799, Lionheart 4W is $499. From what I understand the Athena competes more with Leonidas II although they are not exactly the same, see the comparison here.


----------



## corygrapher

Wyville said:


> I think you might have misunderstood that. The Athena uses similar materials to Leonidas II. Leonidas II 4W is $888, while the Athena 8W is $799, Lionheart 4W is $499. From what I understand the Athena competes more with Leonidas II although they are not exactly the same, see the comparison here.



Thanks for the input!


----------



## Wes S (Jan 16, 2020)

Wyville said:


> I think you might have misunderstood that. The Athena uses similar materials to Leonidas II. Leonidas II 4W is $888, while the Athena 8W is $799, Lionheart 4W is $499. From what I understand the Athena competes more with Leonidas II although they are not exactly the same, see the comparison here.


I read that review and that is exactly how I am hearing it.

The Athena 8 wire is an Audiophile/Basshead's dream cable and it fits my sound preferences paired with my K10U perfectly.


----------



## twister6

How about a budget cable from high-end cable manufacturer?  Check out PWA No.10 review, their latest 10-year anniversary cable


----------



## Wes S (Jan 30, 2020)

twister6 said:


> How about a budget cable from high-end cable manufacturer?  Check out PWA No.10 review, their latest 10-year anniversary cable


As an owner and big fan of the K10U, it is always nice to read your cable reviews!  Thanks for always throwing the K10U comparison in there.   Looks like I won't be going for the no. 10., because I definitely dont need any more top end.


----------



## twister6

Wes S said:


> As an owner and big fan of the K10U, it is always nice to read your cable reviews!  Thanks for always throwing the K10U comparison in there.   Looks like I won't be going for the no. 10., because I definitely dont need any more top end.



That is exactly the reason why I have in preamble of my cable reviews "...the sound change introduced by a specific cable is not universal because it will depend on the design and the synergy between the source and earphones or headphones under test."   Many people assume that because a particular cable pair up works with one IEM, the sound finetuning will be universal, but it's not always the case.  I was a bit surprised myself, but that's how I hear it when pairing K10U with No.10.  While, with RE2k it was a huge change in a positive direction


----------



## Wes S

twister6 said:


> That is exactly the reason why I have in preamble of my cable reviews "...the sound change introduced by a specific cable is not universal because it will depend on the design and the synergy between the source and earphones or headphones under test."   Many people assume that because a particular cable pair up works with one IEM, the sound finetuning will be universal, but it's not always the case.  I was a bit surprised myself, but that's how I hear it when pairing K10U with No.10.  While, with RE2k it was a huge change in a positive direction


You are much appreciated!  I have really been enjoying cable rolling with my iems vs. my full sized cans.  With iems, it is so much easier to pick up on the differences.  I actually just a got an "out for delivery" notice, for my Satin Audio Hyperion 8 wire, and can't wait to see how that pairs up with my K10U and Savant II.   All in all,  I am really happy with my K10U & Satin Athena 8 wire pairing, so I am hoping the Hyperion 8 wire is going to pair well with my Savant II.  Please keep using your K10U's, with your cable reviews.


----------



## nutkunkup (Feb 4, 2020)

...


----------



## Bozz_Keren

Under 50 hours with Triton12, and i must say I'm impressed with this pure copper cable. Quite a different presentation from ALO Slitz, more sub bass, more high extention and mid bass. The staging I feel a bit smaller, but i'll listen more before forming a complete opinion


----------



## Deferenz

Does anyone own the Hansound Redcore cable? If so are you able to give some thoughts and impressions on it.


----------



## greyforest

hi all i am looking for a transparent and holographic cable to pair with final a8000

Already owns oslo dita , it gives a good low end boost but sacrifice a lot of transparency. 

Any suggestions? Thanks!


----------



## Deezel177

greyforest said:


> hi all i am looking for a transparent and holographic cable to pair with final a8000
> 
> Already owns oslo dita , it gives a good low end boost but sacrifice a lot of transparency.
> 
> Any suggestions? Thanks!



My immediate suggestion to you would be Eletech's Illiad, but it's rather costly. If it's out of your budget, perhaps consider Eletech's Plato or Effect Audio's Leonidas II.


----------



## greyforest

Deezel177 said:


> My immediate suggestion to you would be Eletech's Illiad, but it's rather costly. If it's out of your budget, perhaps consider Eletech's Plato or Effect Audio's Leonidas II.


Don’t have any dealer for eletech in my region, leonidas ii sounds quite interesting. How does it compare to kei cable from final?


----------



## Deezel177

greyforest said:


> Don’t have any dealer for eletech in my region, leonidas ii sounds quite interesting. How does it compare to kei cable from final?



I’m not sure. I haven’t tried it yet. But, those two cables should provide the changes you’re after.


----------



## Wyville

Deferenz said:


> Does anyone own the Hansound Redcore cable? If so are you able to give some thoughts and impressions on it.


There should be a few reviews floating around, as well as some impressions here and there. It was quite a popular cable a while back.


----------



## Deezel177

Deferenz said:


> Does anyone own the Hansound Redcore cable? If so are you able to give some thoughts and impressions on it.



@ryansoo reviewed it for THL here: https://theheadphonelist.com/hansound-redcore-review-mesmerising/


----------



## greyforest

Deezel177 said:


> I’m not sure. I haven’t tried it yet. But, those two cables should provide the changes you’re after.


Thank you， kei cable really provides frontal depth that is unheard from any other cable. May be i should stop searching and just be happy about it.


----------



## audio123 (Feb 9, 2020)

greyforest said:


> hi all i am looking for a transparent and holographic cable to pair with final a8000
> 
> Already owns oslo dita , it gives a good low end boost but sacrifice a lot of transparency.
> 
> Any suggestions? Thanks!


Han Sound Torfa 4, PW 1980, Plussound Exo Tri-Silver




Deferenz said:


> Does anyone own the Hansound Redcore cable? If so are you able to give some thoughts and impressions on it.


Here you go, https://audio123reviews.com/2018/11/22/han-sound-redcore


----------



## Deferenz

Deezel177 said:


> @ryansoo reviewed it for THL here: https://theheadphonelist.com/hansound-redcore-review-mesmerising/



Thanks Deezel. Nice review.



audio123 said:


> Here you go, https://audio123reviews.com/2018/11/22/han-sound-redcore



Thanks audio123. Another good review

Both reviews have helped me to get a basic idea of the what the Redcore does.


----------



## greyforest

audio123 said:


> Han Sound Torfa 4, PW 1980, Plussound Exo Tri-Silver
> 
> 
> Here you go, https://audio123reviews.com/2018/11/22/han-sound-redcore


so silver cable is for the best？ wonder if there is any actual improvement over the kei cable.


----------



## audio123

greyforest said:


> so silver cable is for the best？ wonder if there is any actual improvement over the kei cable.


For the A8000, the Torfa 4 is a good match. Kei is stock cable of A8000?


----------



## sywoo022499

Leonidas ii vs eletech Plato for a12t, which one sounds better ?


----------



## greyforest

audio123 said:


> For the A8000, the Torfa 4 is a good match. Kei is stock cable of A8000?


Kei is the stock cable of a8k (silver plated ofc) (seems it is same for e5000 and b1~3 as well)

I just want to boost the transparency further with a8k, of course better imaging would be nice. Torfa4 do that right?


----------



## audio123

greyforest said:


> Kei is the stock cable of a8k (silver plated ofc) (seems it is same for e5000 and b1~3 as well)
> 
> I just want to boost the transparency further with a8k, of course better imaging would be nice. Torfa4 do that right?


Oh, the Kei is a very ordinary cable. Torfa 4 does it for sure but it is ard 1700 USD. What is your budget?


----------



## greyforest

audio123 said:


> Oh, the Kei is a very ordinary cable. Torfa 4 does it for sure but it is ard 1700 USD. What is your budget?



Under 1000$ maybe, otherwise i will be better off with a new dap on the go


----------



## audio123

greyforest said:


> Under 1000$ maybe, otherwise i will be better off with a new dap on the go


Plussound Exo Tri-Silver then!

@audio123 https://audio123reviews.com/2019/03/27/plussound-exo-tri-silver
@twister6 https://twister6.com/2018/11/27/plussound-tri-silver-cable
@WayneWoondirts https://www.headfonia.com/review-plussound-tri-silver


----------



## pithyginger63

I wrote a review for the Gold 16, which I think should get more attention than it currently has
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/alo-audio-gold-16.23019/


----------



## audio123

pithyginger63 said:


> I wrote a review for the Gold 16, which I think should get more attention than it currently has
> https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/alo-audio-gold-16.23019/


Well written!


----------



## pithyginger63

audio123 said:


> Well written!


Thanks!


----------



## pumba62

Hi.

I have Amethyst and it turned green recently. As far as I understand it is silver so shouldn't do that. Can someone confirm?


----------



## Deezel177

pumba62 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have Amethyst and it turned green recently. As far as I understand it is silver so shouldn't do that. Can someone confirm?



Any metal is capable of oxidising if it isn't a Litz (or enamelled) cable.


----------



## Keirapc

pumba62 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have Amethyst and it turned green recently. As far as I understand it is silver so shouldn't do that. Can someone confirm?





Deezel177 said:


> Any metal is capable of oxidising if it isn't a Litz (or enamelled) cable.



No, it shouldn’t turn green, even if you have a non litz pure silver cable, silver can’t turn green. That wire is SPC, i think.


----------



## greyforest

labkable？ they are famous for crap quality product and ****ed up scamming advertising. that cable claim to be pure silver right？ well.........you need Cooper to form green dioxide. silver have black dioxide


pumba62 said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have Amethyst and it turned green recently. As far as I understand it is silver so shouldn't do that. Can someone confirm?


----------



## Deezel177

Keirapc said:


> No, it shouldn’t turn green, even if you have a non litz pure silver cable, silver can’t turn green. That wire is SPC, i think.





greyforest said:


> labkable？ they are famous for crap quality product and ****ed up scamming advertising. that cable claim to be pure silver right？ well.........you need Cooper to form green dioxide. silver have black dioxide



Ah, I see, thanks for the explanation. Now that I think about it, the silver cables I’ve seen turn green were indeed SPC. I have a couple here myself. So, yes, the silver in that cable is most probably SPC.


----------



## pithyginger63

I guess I should avoid labkable then. In my experience, I've seen litz wires that turned green after a while too. They were a demo unit in a store and had seen many years of use. The cable over the ear went really green.


----------



## 8481

Hey guys, just want to make sure. Can I plug in a 3.5 balanced into 3.5 unbalanced?


----------



## Deezel177

8481 said:


> Hey guys, just want to make sure. Can I plug in a 3.5 balanced into 3.5 unbalanced?



No, their terminals are wired differently. You'd need a 3.5mm-balanced-to-3.5mm-unbalanced adapter.


----------



## 8481

Deezel177 said:


> No, their terminals are wired differently. You'd need a 3.5mm-balanced-to-3.5mm-unbalanced adapter.



Thanks. I'm just trying to look for a 4.4 female to 3.5 male adapter and found one at Triton Audio but it's balanced to balanced. Guess I have to look elsewhere.


----------



## Wes S

Satin Audio just announced a new flagship cable!  I love what this company is doing.
https://satinaudio.com/en/product/zeus?v=7516fd43adaa


----------



## Deezel177

8481 said:


> Thanks. I'm just trying to look for a 4.4 female to 3.5 male adapter and found one at Triton Audio but it's balanced to balanced. Guess I have to look elsewhere.



Music Sanctuary can make a pigtail-style one for you. I have one with Han Sound Audio's Zen as the wire, and it works perfectly: https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/accessories/products/custom-adapters

DD-HiFi also make ultrashort ones that adapt 4.4mm female to both 3.5mm unbalanced and 2.5mm balanced male connectors: https://www.ddhifi.com/productinfo/1429484.html



Wes S said:


> Satin Audio just announced a new flagship cable!  I love what this company is doing.
> https://satinaudio.com/en/product/zeus?v=7516fd43adaa



Their prices are certainly climbing as well. Hopefully, they're able to stay true to their value-oriented roots, and limit these price tags to the flagships every now and again. Speaking of Satin, I have a 4-wire and 8-wire Athena double review set to come soon, so look forward to that.


----------



## Wes S

Deezel177 said:


> Music Sanctuary can make a pigtail-style one for you. I have one with Han Sound Audio's Zen as the wire, and it works perfectly: https://music-sanctuary.com/collections/accessories/products/custom-adapters
> 
> DD-HiFi also make ultrashort ones that adapt 4.4mm female to both 3.5mm unbalanced and 2.5mm balanced male connectors: https://www.ddhifi.com/productinfo/1429484.html
> 
> ...


I have noticed that the prices of the newer offerings are climbing but still competitive.  However, their lower priced offerings are killer.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 19, 2020)

Just to elaborate on Satin Audio's pricing, the new TOTL cable seems to be comparable in materials and awg, to the EA Code 51, which cost quite a bit more, as in nearly double the price.  So, I think Satin is still doing great things, with pricing.  If this new cable is as good or better than the Athena, then we are in for a treat.  I absolutely love my Athena 8 wire!


----------



## Deezel177

Wes S said:


> Just to elaborate on Satin Audio's pricing, the new TOTL cable seems to be comparable in materials and awg, to the EA Code 51, which cost quite a bit more, as in nearly double the price.  So, I think Satin is still doing great things, with pricing.  If this new cable is as good or better than the Athena, then we are in for a treat.  I absolutely love my Athena 8 wire!



Yeah, I'm not questioning the price of the product on its own at all. I'm just hoping that these will be the exception rather than the rule with Satin's future releases.


----------



## Wes S

Deezel177 said:


> Yeah, I'm not questioning the price of the product on its own at all. I'm just hoping that these will be the exception rather than the rule with Satin's future releases.


I got ya, and I am right there with you.  I can't really afford the TOTL stuff, and really love their Titan series cables.


----------



## Deferenz

Wes S said:


> Just to elaborate on Satin Audio's pricing, the new TOTL cable seems to be comparable in materials and awg, to the EA Code 51, which cost quite a bit more, as in nearly double the price.  So, I think Satin is still doing great things, with pricing.  If this new cable is as good or better than the Athena, then we are in for a treat.  I absolutely love my Athena 8 wire!



Will anyone here be getting hold of this new TOTL cable to do a review? It would be interesting to do a comparison between the Zeus and Code 51.


----------



## ayang02

A new flagship cable from Toxic Cables.




This is the Phoenix: a 22AWG gold-plated silver cable, very unique specs for a gold-plated silver cable. For those of you who knew what went on with Toxic for the past few years, this is a very fitting new cable name.


----------



## Wyville

ayang02 said:


> A new flagship cable from Toxic Cables.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Phoenix: a 22AWG gold-plated silver cable, very unique specs for a gold-plated silver cable. For those of you who knew what went on with Toxic for the past few years, this is a very fitting new cable name.


22 AWG? That must be quite a chunky cable.  The name is definitely appropriate. So incredibly sad what happened to Frank and it has been a long process, but what a pleasant surprise to see them back and doing so well!


----------



## ayang02

Wyville said:


> 22 AWG? That must be quite a chunky cable.  The name is definitely appropriate. So incredibly sad what happened to Frank and it has been a long process, but what a pleasant surprise to see them back and doing so well!



Yes 22AWG is thick, fortunately this new cable also comes with new insulation that’s as soft as some of my X6 or X8 Plussound cables. So far they are very comfortable to wear.

The old Toxic cables have insulation that’s not as soft and hardens up after one year. I’m told this new insulation supposedly doesn’t have that same issue but we’ll see....

I’m also surprised at how well Toxic bounced back given the tragic events and all the rumors/negativity that surrounded this brand. A lot of people waited very long for them to return, myself included. So glad everything turned out for the best.


----------



## Wyville

ayang02 said:


> Yes 22AWG is thick, fortunately this new cable also comes with new insulation that’s as soft as some of my X6 or X8 Plussound cables. So far they are very comfortable to wear.
> 
> The old Toxic cables have insulation that’s not as soft and hardens up after one year. I’m told this new insulation supposedly doesn’t have that same issue but we’ll see....
> 
> I’m also surprised at how well Toxic bounced back given the tragic events and all the rumors/negativity that surrounded this brand. A lot of people waited very long for them to return, myself included. So glad everything turned out for the best.


Very interesting! It is really nice to have a premium cable builder so close by, now it is just hoping they can get the wait times down as well.


----------



## twister6

Wanted to share Erik's (@Wyville ) review of Eletech Plato Silver cable on Tw6.


----------



## Deferenz

My Satin Audio Hyperion 8 Wire has arrived. It is a fine looking cable. I must also say that Satin Audio’s turnaround time was fantastic. I ordered it on 24th February and it was at my nearest DHL depot ready for delivery on 2nd March. Just 8 days!


----------



## Wes S (Mar 4, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> My Satin Audio Hyperion 8 Wire has arrived. It is a fine looking cable. I must also say that Satin Audio’s turnaround time was fantastic. I ordered it on 24th February and it was at my nearest DHL depot ready for delivery on 2nd March. Just 8 days!


Welcome to the club!  They sound as good as they look.


----------



## audio123

Just updated the Han Sound cables discussion thread with the Zentoo, Zentoo Plus, Agni II, Kimera, Torfa 2 & Torfa 4!  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/han-sound-audio-cables-discussion-thread.902719


----------



## Deferenz

audio123 said:


> Just updated the Han Sound cables discussion thread with the Zentoo, Zentoo Plus, Agni II, Kimera, Torfa 2 & Torfa 4!
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/han-sound-audio-cables-discussion-thread.902719


I saw that last night. Those are really good pictures of the cables.


----------



## audio123

Deferenz said:


> I saw that last night. Those are really good pictures of the cables.


Agreed. Han Sound cables are really solid.


----------



## Number9redreD

Does anyone here know any companies that can repair 3rd party cables? I fell asleep with my iems in last night, and woke up to this...


----------



## SeeSax

Number9redreD said:


> Does anyone here know any companies that can repair 3rd party cables? I fell asleep with my iems in last night, and woke up to this...



For repairs, upgrades, etc. I always turn to David at Triton Audio Cables. Stellar work and he’s also on Head-Fi as @alpha421

-Collin-


----------



## Number9redreD

SeeSax said:


> For repairs, upgrades, etc. I always turn to David at Triton Audio Cables. Stellar work and he’s also on Head-Fi as @alpha421
> 
> -Collin-


Thanks a lot, I'll check it out


----------



## Pro-Jules

Number9redreD said:


> Thanks a lot, I'll check it out



must have been some night!


----------



## Number9redreD

Pro-Jules said:


> must have been some night!


Haha, well its safe to say I won't be doing this again. Lesson learned


----------



## Deferenz

I have been listening to the Satin Audio Hyperion 8 wire with the Trio. It has only had 15hrs burn in, but I'm enjoying the sound so far. Early impressions show good clarity to the sound, it seems rather crisp, and it's on the warm side (which fits with my preference). I could listen to this for hours without fatigue. For the relatively small cost this is a nice cable.

On this experience it would would be good to listen to Satin Audio's more expensive offerings.


----------



## Wes S

Deferenz said:


> I have been listening to the Satin Audio Hyperion 8 wire with the Trio. It has only had 15hrs burn in, but I'm enjoying the sound so far. Early impressions show good clarity to the sound, it seems rather crisp, and it's on the warm side (which fits with my preference). I could listen to this for hours without fatigue. For the relatively small cost this is a nice cable.
> 
> On this experience it would would be good to listen to Satin Audio's more expensive offerings.


Nice! Now you need an Athena 8 wire.  I love my Hyperion, but my Athena is on another level.


----------



## Deferenz

Wes S said:


> Nice! Now you need an Athena 8 wire.  I love my Hyperion, but my Athena is on another level.



It is early days yet, but I might prefer the Hyperion 8w to another cable I recently acquired that costs 6 times as much.


----------



## Wes S (Mar 10, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> It is early days yet, but I might prefer the Hyperion 8w to another cable I recently acquired that costs 6 times as much.


I have been singing their praises for a reason.  Satin Audio blows EA out of the water, if you ask me.


----------



## Deferenz

Wes S said:


> I have been singing their praises for a reason.  Satin Audio blows EA out of the water, if you ask me.


If this is what Satin Audio can do for $100, then their TOTL must be in another stratosphere.


----------



## Markus Tappeser

Hi all, 

has one of you experiences with cables of Han Sound Audio?
After roughly 4,5 months it looks like that, I guess, the connector oxidised.
Is it possible that this cause quality problems in the future?

Cheers!


----------



## Deezel177

Markus Tappeser said:


> Hi all,
> 
> has one of you experiences with cables of Han Sound Audio?
> After roughly 4,5 months it looks like that, I guess, the connector oxidised.
> ...



Han Sound’s build is typically pretty stellar. It looks like the plug may have gotten worn out in use; perhaps by the plug itself being a tad too thick, or the socket it’s plugged into being a tad too tight. This happened to one of my cables after I’d plugged it into iFi Audio’s IEMatch a number of times. It turned out, the IEMatch’s tight socket wore away the plug’s rhodium plating. Have you ever found this plug difficult/tough to plug into or pull out?


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deferenz said:


> If this is what Satin Audio can do for $100, then their TOTL must be in another stratosphere.


I think Satin kinda fixed that, but the parts they used on their 100$ cables were the same as the ones they used on their 800$ cables, which always really bummed me out


----------



## Wes S (Mar 11, 2020)

mvvRAZ said:


> I think Satin kinda fixed that, but the parts they used on their 100$ cables were the same as the ones they used on their 800$ cables, which always really bummed me out


I could see some not liking that, but that never bothered me.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wes S said:


> I could see some not liking that, but they are not the only cable company that does that.  I can think of a few other very well known high end cable companies that do the same.


EA for example yeah  didn't like it when they did that either haha


----------



## Wes S

mvvRAZ said:


> EA for example yeah  didn't like it when they did that either haha


The thing I like about Satin's wire, is it does not get stiff like a lot of EA cables for example.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Wes S said:


> The thing I like about Satin's wire, is it does not get stiff like a lot of EA cables for example.


It is quite early to tell though, the Athena 8w you have is only a few months old - EA cables as well as just about any PVC insulated cable will eventually stiffen up if exposed to UV, humidity and so on - it's not really an issue with EA specifically, but PVC insulation as a whole


----------



## tim0chan

mvvRAZ said:


> I think Satin kinda fixed that, but the parts they used on their 100$ cables were the same as the ones they used on their 800$ cables, which always really bummed me out


Why does it bum you out? Plussound, PW audio, toxic cables, double helix, norne audio, effect audio (to a certain extent) and Han sound also does the same thing. Generally cable manufacturers try to keep the aesthetics of their brand recognisable, no matter what pricing. If anything it should give you comfort that the brands are confident in the quality of the parts such that the parts found in their lowest priced cables are good enough to be used in their highest spec cables


----------



## Deferenz

mvvRAZ said:


> I think Satin kinda fixed that, but the parts they used on their 100$ cables were the same as the ones they used on their 800$ cables, which always really bummed me out


Sorry, I'm lost. Are you saying that their $100 cables were pretty much as good as the $800 cables?


----------



## mvvRAZ

tim0chan said:


> Why does it bum you out? Plussound, PW audio, toxic cables, double helix, norne audio, effect audio (to a certain extent) and Han sound also does the same thing. Generally cable manufacturers try to keep the aesthetics of their brand recognisable, no matter what pricing. If anything it should give you comfort that the brands are confident in the quality of the parts such that the parts found in their lowest priced cables are good enough to be used in their highest spec cables


Yeahhh but to rephrase that - I feel like the parts on the 800$ Athena 8 wire were great for a 100$ cable, but not really of an 800$ one 



Deferenz said:


> Sorry, I'm lost. Are you saying that their $100 cables were pretty much as good as the $800 cables?


Essentially - yes. Other than the difference in materials I didn't get the sense that the 800$ cable was in any way better than their cheaper stuff. I guess that's fairly standard for cables, but I'd at least want to see a fancier split or whatever, just about anything to distinguish one from the other


----------



## Sound Eq

hi, i was wondering if there is a way to soften a cable, I have an after market cable and it started to get a bit stiff and loose its flexibility after bout a year. This really sucks after alot of money on after market cable.


----------



## Sound Eq

mvvRAZ said:


> Yeahhh but to rephrase that - I feel like the parts on the 800$ Athena 8 wire were great for a 100$ cable, but not really of an 800$ one
> 
> 
> Essentially - yes. Other than the difference in materials I didn't get the sense that the 800$ cable was in any way better than their cheaper stuff. I guess that's fairly standard for cables, but I'd at least want to see a fancier split or whatever, just about anything to distinguish one from the other


I was considering the Athena for some time, are you saying their cheaper cables are as good as the 8 core athena, if yes which one


----------



## Markus Tappeser

Deezel177 said:


> Han Sound’s build is typically pretty stellar. It looks like the plug may have gotten worn out in use; perhaps by the plug itself being a tad too thick, or the socket it’s plugged into being a tad too tight. This happened to one of my cables after I’d plugged it into iFi Audio’s IEMatch a number of times. It turned out, the IEMatch’s tight socket wore away the plug’s rhodium plating. Have you ever found this plug difficult/tough to plug into or pull out?



Manly I'm using my sp1000m and actually I can plug in and out the connector very easily. 
I'm only worry about that this cause a quality drop.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Sound Eq said:


> I was considering the Athena for some time, are you saying their cheaper cables are as good as the 8 core athena, if yes which one


Any one of them - not discussing sound here, only the build


----------



## Deferenz

mvvRAZ said:


> Any one of them - not discussing sound here, only the build


Oh I see. In my original comment on $100 cable vs TOTL cable I was referring to the sound quality as opposed to the build quality. Suggesting that the sound on their TOTL must be fantastic if their $100 sound was as good as it is.

Sorry for any confusion!


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deferenz said:


> Oh I see. In my original comment on $100 cable vs TOTL cable I was referring to the sound quality as opposed to the build quality. Suggesting that the sound on their TOTL must be fantastic if their $100 sound was as good as it is.
> 
> Sorry for any confusion!


Ahhh that's a different topic yeah - sound-wise Satin does offer some of the best value in the industry no doubt


----------



## SeeSax

Friends, I'm back with some impressions of the lovely Eletech Plato that was kindly loaned to me by @Wyville (huge thanks!). The cable surprised me in many ways and build quality is up there with the Eletech standard (which has sort of set a new standard). First, I tried out the Plato on my Noble Katana because it is a monitor that really showcases differences in the chain. My preferred pairing with the Katana has been the PlusSound Exo Tri-Silver for its transparency, technical abilities and overall comfort/build. The Plato brings a smoothness to the sound that was a really nice surprise. Where the Tri-Silver is the more sparkly, "silver sounding" cable for lack of a better word, the overall smoothness of the Plato was immediately apparent. It brought a slight perceived warmth to the signature, probably because of how smooth it presented the treble. Still, I heard lots of detail and resolution, just an overall sense of natural response and smooth presentation. I really like the pairing! Bass impact was ever so slightly enhanced was the Plato as well, but overall quantity is pretty similar. 




Moving over to the Earsonics Grace, I love what I am hearing. Grace is currently paired with a 1960 2-wire and while I like that combo, I prefer the Plato pairing. 1960 2-wire is a warm cable overall, but also slightly v-shaped with a sparkly treble and enhanced bass response. The Grace is also a warm monitor, so moving over to the Plato gave it a dose of clarity and made everything sound overall more balanced. The awesome sub-bass impact was still there, but mids have been brought forward a bit and the vocals seem to have more air around them. Treble sparkle is roughly similar on both cables, but more natural and smoother on Plato. I really, really like this pairing and it immediately made me message @Eric Chong to inquire about purchasing the Plato. I don't care if it's the middle of the night for him  



Also a surprise was the physical nature of the cable. It's 24awg wires, but due to the non-litz design it is actually smaller in diameter than the PlusSound Exo at 26awg. See photo below: 



Next up, I will give the Plato a listen on my Legend X and compare it to a DHC Clone Silver and a few other cables I have in the stable. Either way, I'm really impressed with Plato. I haven't really compared it to my Iliad, but will venture to do so. Iliad is perma-fixed to my Dream XLS and I do not think anything can unseat that pairing  

-Collin-


----------



## greenmac (Mar 11, 2020)

Anyone come across this cable from Japan , made by Rosenkrantz


----------



## kubig123

greenmac said:


> Anyone come across this cable from Japan , made by Rosenkrantz


I got one through byuee, it’s quite microphonic and I didn’t spend too much time with it, I definitely should spend more time testing it at home. I just have to find the time.

construction wise is nicely built, extremely light and of course extremely original with all the wires in different colors.


----------



## proedros

SeeSax said:


> Friends, I'm back with some impressions of the lovely Eletech Plato that was kindly loaned to me by @Wyville (huge thanks!). The cable surprised me in many ways and build quality is up there with the Eletech standard (which has sort of set a new standard). First, I tried out the Plato on my Noble Katana because it is a monitor that really showcases differences in the chain. My preferred pairing with the Katana has been the PlusSound Exo Tri-Silver for its transparency, technical abilities and overall comfort/build. T*he Plato brings a smoothness to the sound that was a really nice surprise*. Where the Tri-Silver is the more sparkly, "silver sounding" cable for lack of a better word, *the overall smoothness of the Plato was immediately apparent. It brought a slight perceived warmth to the signature, probably because of how smooth it presented the treble. Still, I heard lots of detail and resolution, just an overall sense of natural response and smooth presentation.* I really like the pairing! *Bass impact was ever so slightly enhanced* was the Plato as well, but overall quantity is pretty similar.



this read like describing the EA Lionheart to a T, how much does Plato cost ?


----------



## SeeSax

proedros said:


> this read like describing the EA Lionheart to a T, how much does Plato cost ?



https://elementechnology.com/collections/school-of-athens-series/products/plato

$999, so, a mid-range offering in today's climate


----------



## Vitaly2017

SeeSax said:


> https://elementechnology.com/collections/school-of-athens-series/products/plato
> 
> $999, so, a mid-range offering in today's climate




Wooaaa it said to be _Cryogenically Treated does that mean this thing is the best silver cable in the world?_


----------



## proedros

SeeSax said:


> https://elementechnology.com/collections/school-of-athens-series/products/plato
> 
> *$999, *so, a mid-range offering in today's climate



1000$ ? wow that's a lot - i got my LH used from here for 300$ , i suggest you try and hunt one out i you liked Plato so much


----------



## Wes S (Mar 11, 2020)

proedros said:


> 1000$ ? wow that's a lot - i got my LH used from here for 300$ , i suggest you try and hunt one out i you liked Plato so much


Not really apples to apples. . .different materials used for the conductor.  Not to mention all the green(oxidized) LH cables I have seen lately, kind of makes me want to look elsewhere.


----------



## tim0chan

mvvRAZ said:


> Yeahhh but to rephrase that - I feel like the parts on the 800$ Athena 8 wire were great for a 100$ cable, but not really of an 800$ one
> 
> 
> Essentially - yes. Other than the difference in materials I didn't get the sense that the 800$ cable was in any way better than their cheaper stuff. I guess that's fairly standard for cables, but I'd at least want to see a fancier split or whatever, just about anything to distinguish one from the other


So PW audio using the same plugs for their 1k+ 1950s and their $150 no5 would be a turn off for you?


----------



## pithyginger63

Anyone have trouble wearing cables that have the straight earphone connectors? They kinda dig into the sides of my head and give me pimples. I haven’t had this problem after switching to cables with angled earphone connections, a lot more comfortable.


----------



## Keirapc

Vitaly2017 said:


> Wooaaa it said to be _Cryogenically Treated does that mean this thing is the best silver cable in the world?_


Not really, i've seen a $200 silver cable have this.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Keirapc said:


> Not really, i've seen a $200 silver cable have this.




Ok so that means the way it was forged isn't a sign off better sound quality?


----------



## buonassi (Mar 12, 2020)

Wes S said:


> The thing I like about Satin's wire, is it does not get stiff like a lot of EA cables for example.


My griffin doesn't seem to be PVC - it's some sort of TPU/TPE, and it's showing no signs of stiffening yet. and I'm the second owner 



Sound Eq said:


> hi, i was wondering if there is a way to soften a cable, I have an after market cable and it started to get a bit stiff and loose its flexibility after bout a year.


yes there is!  you can get your cable soft for an entire 3 minutes by using a hair dryer on it.  When it cools, it's back to stiff crap, and no better than it was before. Try anything you like, the PVC is chemically altered and the plasticizers have been reduced.  it'll never be soft again I'm afraid.

You can sell them here on headfi.  of course disclosing the stiffness.  I did this with a PW No5 (actually took a video of it for proper sales disclosure), someone still bought it for $70!   see below, the fun begins at 00:35 lol

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KSTV82ML3njCtDPZ8


----------



## Wyville

proedros said:


> this read like describing the EA Lionheart to a T, how much does Plato cost ?


Lionheart and Plato are quite different cables. With my Phantom Lionheart is warmer and more intimate with thicker notes and excellent timbre, while Plato extends the stage considerably further, adds a lot of air with slightly leaner notes and a level of transparency and resolution that is really quite impressive. Of course it depends on the specific pairing.


----------



## Wes S

buonassi said:


> My griffin doesn't seem to be PVC - it's some sort of TPU/TPE, and it's showing no signs of stiffening yet. and I'm the second owner
> 
> 
> yes there is!  you can get your cable soft for an entire 3 minutes by using a hair dryer on it.  When it cools, it's back to stiff crap, and no better than it was before. Try anything you like, the PVC is chemically altered and the plasticizers have been reduced.  it'll never be soft again I'm afraid.
> ...


Thanks for confirming Satin uses a superior insulation, than some of stuff that gets stiff.


----------



## Keirapc

Vitaly2017 said:


> Ok so that means the way it was forged isn't a sign off better sound quality?


It is a sign of better sound quality, but it doesn’t mean it is the best silver cable in the world 




Wes S said:


> Thanks for confirming Satin uses a superior insulation, than some of stuff that gets stiff.


I confirm my Chimera stay the same for a year, it even become a little softer. They also claim in their website that their new line of cable won’t get stiff like other brands.


----------



## proedros

one more vote of confidence here for *1960s 2w cable* , love how transparent it makes my Zeus without sounding thin - and the bass hits a lot.

I will share some more impressions in the following days ,as i had the cable connected wrong for the first 2 days - not sure if that makes any difference or you just get channel swapping....

only problem now that i have my TOTL combo in Zeus XR+1960s 2w is that i am thinking of maybe modding/upgrading my WM1A (next year , no money for now after buying the 1960s...)


First world problems....


----------



## artpiggo

Anyone tried this cable?


----------



## ngd3

What's the advice for cleaning cables, just warm water and a microfiber towel?

Got a DHC cable specifically that needs some work


----------



## buonassi

plus sound recommends warm water and soft clean cloth.  no chemicals/detergents, etc.


----------



## ranfan

pithyginger63 said:


> Anyone have trouble wearing cables that have the straight earphone connectors? They kinda dig into the sides of my head and give me pimples. I haven’t had this problem after switching to cables with angled earphone connections, a lot more comfortable.


My intime Sora is like that, but I just tighten the slider and have no problem with it. It's comfortable to wear even for jogging.


----------



## olddude (Mar 17, 2020)

proedros said:


> one more vote of confidence here for *1960s 2w cable* , love how transparent it makes my Zeus without sounding thin - and the bass hits a lot.
> 
> I will share some more impressions in the following days ,as i had the cable connected wrong for the first 2 days - not sure if that makes any difference or you just get channel swapping....
> 
> ...


I've always been interested in the 2-wire, but don't want to buy sight unseen, so to speak.  As we've discussed before, I believe your DAP to be a bit warmer than mine, but thanks indeed for the info re the Zeus.  I had been hoping to attend CanJam SoCal in June but don't hold out much hope for it now.  At some point either I'll bite the bullet and buy a 2-wire or get a chance to hear one.


----------



## proedros

olddude said:


> I've always been interested in the 2-wire, but don't want to buy sight unseen, so to speak.  As we've discussed before, I believe your DAP to be a bit warmer than mine, but thanks indeed for the info re the Zeus.  I had been hoping to attend CanJam SoCal in June but don't hold out much hope for it now.  At some point either I'll bite the bullet and buy a 2-2wire or get a chance to hear one.



my advice , as we only live once

if you find a used one here selling for 600-700$ buy it , it's already 40% off - if you don't like it you can resell easily here at zero/minimum loss

me ? the only thought about it now is why i did not buy it earlier and waited 3 years

best,

Proedros


----------



## Vitaly2017

Guys need some help here please.

I had my cable store in a safe dry place. Didnt use it for 2 weeks...

This morning take it out and I find this spots on ear loops is that normal? Is this oxidation? 

Plussound saying that this is just some oils reaction on the cable and is only cosmetic not affecting the sound and it is not covered by warranty as its only cosmetic!#%% 

Does that even make sense?


----------



## Vitaly2017

Aaa boy I think I found the guilty responsible for those markings on my plussound! 

Its my storing pouch I hang my iems on it and I see it marked my cable with slight purplish colorings


----------



## Pepito

Markus Tappeser said:


> Hi all,
> 
> has one of you experiences with cables of Han Sound Audio?
> After roughly 4,5 months it looks like that, I guess, the connector oxidised.
> ...



Deoxit is what you need, once the connectors start oxidizing it affects the sound. You should be cleaning all your connectors regularly with Deoxit!


----------



## Pepito

Vitaly2017 said:


> Aaa boy I think I found the guilty responsible for those markings on my plussound!
> 
> Its my storing pouch I hang my iems on it and I see it marked my cable with slight purplish colorings



It's more likely oxidization from your ears...


----------



## buonassi

Pepito said:


> Deoxit is what you need, once the connectors start oxidizing it affects the sound. You should be cleaning all your connectors regularly with Deoxit!



It's the plastic sheathing that has been stained, not the conductors or connectors. 

Deoxit is for metal to metal connections, not for rubbing out stains on plastic. If he does this, he'll assuredly ruin his cable.


----------



## Vitaly2017

Will leave it as is . As its only a slight color shift its really nothing major. But who of thought that a pouch could do that to a teflon insulation! 


As said the metal is intact its just the shielding of the transparent teflon...





Pepito said:


> It's more likely oxidization from your ears...





buonassi said:


> It's the plastic sheathing that has been stained, not the conductors or connectors.
> 
> Deoxit is for metal to metal connections, not for rubbing out stains on plastic. If he does this, he'll assuredly ruin his cable.


----------



## Skullar

Hi everyone.

Looking for a light, portable cable. I was looking at pure silver to brighten my iems up a bit as i already have hybrid from Forza Audio.
So i have narrowed down to;
Norde Audio - Therium 2
Toxic Cables - Hydra 18
But then i also came across
Linum - SuperBax Balanced. Which if what reviews say is true has sonic properties i am after.

Anyone has any experience/ recomendations with either of those?

Thanks a bunch


----------



## 8481

Skullar said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Looking for a light, portable cable. I was looking at pure silver to brighten my iems up a bit as i already have hybrid from Forza Audio.
> So i have narrowed down to;
> ...



Never experiences those but Alo Audio's Silver litz is pretty lightweight.


----------



## Skullar

8481 said:


> Never experiences those but Alo Audio's Silver litz is pretty lightweight.


Is that the one that comes with CA iems? I tried it when i had Atlas. I dont think you can get it with 2 pin option unfortunately. And i need 2pin to 4.4mm 
Thanks for suggestion!


----------



## 8481

Skullar said:


> Is that the one that comes with CA iems? I tried it when i had Atlas. I dont think you can get it with 2 pin option unfortunately. And i need 2pin to 4.4mm
> Thanks for suggestion!



Oh hi there Skullar, didn’t notice I replied to you haha.

Ah didn’t realise you can’t get 2-pin from them.


----------



## gnahra

8481 said:


> Oh hi there Skullar, didn’t notice I replied to you haha.
> 
> Ah didn’t realise you can’t get 2-pin from them.





8481 said:


> Oh hi there Skullar, didn’t notice I replied to you haha.
> 
> Ah didn’t realise you can’t get 2-pin from them.


@Skullar you can get 2-pin on certain cables, for example the SXC 8 and Reference 8 do offer 2-pin options.  Not sure about their entire cable catalog, though


----------



## Vitaly2017 (Mar 20, 2020)

Skullar said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Looking for a light, portable cable. I was looking at pure silver to brighten my iems up a bit as i already have hybrid from Forza Audio.
> So i have narrowed down to;
> ...



Plussound has different options for light weight.
2 wires
4 wires
6 wires
And 8 wires!

You can choose as you wish and all type of iem connectors and source connectors.

As for example my plussound gold plated silver you saw up few posts is 4 wires and its one of the lightest and easiest one I ever had...
You can go 2 wires if you want! They got like 6 or 8 options of cable material to chose from and its all litz as I recall

http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/inearmonitor.html


----------



## Skullar (Mar 20, 2020)

Vitaly2017 said:


> Plussound has different options for light weight.
> 2 wires
> 4 wires
> 6 wires
> ...


Ok that x series 2 wire silver + gold seems like sexy option and it is around $300 so that is what i am roughly willing to pay.

Thanks for making it even more difficult to make a decision haha.


----------



## chihangs

Skullar said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Looking for a light, portable cable. I was looking at pure silver to brighten my iems up a bit as i already have hybrid from Forza Audio.
> So i have narrowed down to;
> ...


The only cable I can recommend in pure silver and light weight is The Dream Duet from Crystal Cable. 
Dream Duet is the best sounding silver cable I heard to date.


----------



## Skullar

chihangs said:


> The only cable I can recommend in pure silver and light weight is The Dream Duet from Crystal Cable.
> Dream Duet is the best sounding silver cable I heard to date.


Yeh the size and thickness is nice. But my god it looks horrible lol. 
While i would love to hear it out my coming iems will cost less than that cable

Still thanks for introducing me to another cable manufacturer. Seems like serious business


----------



## Vitaly2017

Hello good people!

Could some one share some experience on how does this 3 cables compares and if there is a real gain or difference in sound quality please.


-Plussound gold plated silver 
- Pw audio the gold 24 or 26
- Effect audio Horus


Thanks!
I currently own plussound gold plated silver and pw1960 4wires


----------



## choisan (Mar 25, 2020)

the thing i dont like plussound is the connector at the earphone side, the printed logo no matter what color, gold, silver, red,....will just fade after some months use, other than that, i am quite happy with that.
with that said, some other brands may have the similar issue.


----------



## claud W

My best sounding headphone/IEM cables are Norne Audio. Trevor can make you anything you want and his silver cables are magical. The Therium 2 is a good choice for what you want.


----------



## bahamot (Mar 26, 2020)

Lyre Acoustics Iris & Cross Lamda Illusion​


----------



## claud W (Mar 26, 2020)

Not pushing Norne cables, but here are mine. The left one is a Silvergarde SX and the one on the right is a cheaper silver Litz one. There may be another on the way.


----------



## Pepito (Mar 27, 2020)

buonassi said:


> It's the plastic sheathing that has been stained, not the conductors or connectors.
> 
> Deoxit is for metal to metal connections, not for rubbing out stains on plastic. If he does this, he'll assuredly ruin his cable.



I was replying to someone totally different buddy. Read the post.

Yea lemme just put Deoxit on plastic sheathing... I real smart


----------



## twister6

Hopefully people didn't take it as a joke  To celebrate their 8th year anniversary, @PLUSSOUND introduced today a new Palladium Plated Hybrid cable (palladium plated silver and palladium plated copper wires).  Headfonics posted their review today; mine should be up in a few days as well.


----------



## choisan

twister6 said:


> Hopefully people didn't take it as a joke  To celebrate their 8th year anniversary, @PLUSSOUND introduced today a new Palladium Plated Hybrid cable (palladium plated silver and palladium plated copper wires).  Headfonics posted their review today; mine should be up in a few days as well.


yours is exo 4? look forward to that as well. wonder who got 8x sample and will post impression too


----------



## twister6

choisan said:


> yours is exo 4? look forward to that as well. wonder who got 8x sample and will post impression too



Yes, EXO. X8 impressions would be good, but I personally think comparison between 4 and 8 is what most are looking for. Theoretically, you are cutting the impedance of the cable in half by doubling a number of conductors. Thus sound change will depend on your source, iems/headphones, and how this change in impedance of the cable will affect the sound.


----------



## Vitaly2017

twister6 said:


> Hopefully people didn't take it as a joke  To celebrate their 8th year anniversary, @PLUSSOUND introduced today a new Palladium Plated Hybrid cable (palladium plated silver and palladium plated copper wires).  Headfonics posted their review today; mine should be up in a few days as well.




Nice ! Really looking into it to see what you think! )))

I cant decide whats best 4 or 8 wires? It always feels like 8 wires is the  best option but is it?


----------



## twister6

Vitaly2017 said:


> Nice ! Really looking into it to see what you think! )))
> 
> I cant decide whats best 4 or 8 wires? It always feels like 8 wires is the  best option but is it?



You can go into a deep analysis comparing the effect of 4 vs 8 wires impedance change on the sound chain of your DAP/cable/iem.  IMHO, the only way to know for sure if when you try it with your particular DAP and your particular pair of IEMs.  Changes are not universal because different DAPs have different output impedance and your monitor drivers and crossover design will vary.  Just too many variables.

But one thing I can say with certainty, 4 wire will give you the best price/performance/comfort ratio.  Compared to 8 wire, 4 wire will be lighter, more pliable (relative to how tight 8 wire braiding is) and will cost 1/2 the price since only half of the material is being used.


----------



## Vitaly2017

twister6 said:


> You can go into a deep analysis comparing the effect of 4 vs 8 wires impedance change on the sound chain of your DAP/cable/iem.  IMHO, the only way to know for sure if when you try it with your particular DAP and your particular pair of IEMs.  Changes are not universal because different DAPs have different output impedance and your monitor drivers and crossover design will vary.  Just too many variables.
> 
> But one thing I can say with certainty, 4 wire will give you the best price/performance/comfort ratio.  Compared to 8 wire, 4 wire will be lighter, more pliable (relative to how tight 8 wire braiding is) and will cost 1/2 the price since only half of the material is being used.




I always found 8 wires to sound better some how... Without considering the price


----------



## twister6

Vitaly2017 said:


> I always found 8 wires to sound better some how... Without considering the price



Sounds better when you compare to the exact same 4 wire version?  But either way, it's all about enjoying what sounds better to us


----------



## Vitaly2017

twister6 said:


> Sounds better when you compare to the exact same 4 wire version?  But either way, it's all about enjoying what sounds better to us




exact same cable and eventually even if cables are from different brand I still preferred the 8 wires


----------



## twister6

Vitaly2017 said:


> exact same cable and eventually even if cables are from different brand I still preferred the 8 wires



Well, maybe in a near future I will get a chance to compare 4wire vs 8wire of this new @PLUSSOUND  palladium plated hybrid cable.  But in a meantime, here is a full review.


----------



## greenmac

Anyone have experience of the Ego Audio Tequila cable ?


----------



## kubig123

greenmac said:


> Anyone have experience of the Ego Audio Tequila cable ?


the only reference to this brand that i found on this forum is this one:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/ego-audio-cables-beer-cocktail-sake-tequila-whiskey.23869/reviews

Love the names they choose for their cables, it might become my favorite brand


----------



## QBB251

twister6 said:


> Well, maybe in a near future I will get a chance to compare 4wire vs 8wire of this new @PLUSSOUND  palladium plated hybrid cable.  But in a meantime, here is a full review.



Thank you for the great review as usual. I currently have the Leonidas II paired up with my A18t. I’m curious on which pair up you prefer. The U18t with PlusSound’s Palladium Plated Hybrid or U18t with Effect Audio’s Leonidas II?


----------



## mvvRAZ

Does anyone have experience with Beat Audio Lab? I love the look of their emerald cable


----------



## artpiggo

mvvRAZ said:


> Does anyone have experience with Beat Audio Lab? I love the look of their emerald cable


I have tried beat billow and beat prima donna for quite long time ago. It is quite great. 
Beat billow get a mellow bass and very concert hall experience. but I would say it share similarity quite like labkable pandora.
Prima donna has a great resolution and detail but quite leaner bass. A little bit bright.


----------



## SeeSax

mvvRAZ said:


> Does anyone have experience with Beat Audio Lab? I love the look of their emerald cable



I had the Prima Donna 8-wire for a while and can assure you of two things:

1) it will pass your comfort test with flying colors

I forgot the second thing. I think it sounded good from memory  

-Collin-


----------



## twister6

QBB251 said:


> Thank you for the great review as usual. I currently have the Leonidas II paired up with my A18t. I’m curious on which pair up you prefer. The U18t with PlusSound’s Palladium Plated Hybrid or U18t with Effect Audio’s Leonidas II?



Both sound close enough, just a little difference in treble.  And that's why I'm leaning more toward PS because with U18t the treble is smoother.  Also, since I have Leo II octa, 4 wire PS is lighter.


----------



## edwardsean

Vitaly2017 said:


> exact same cable and eventually even if cables are from different brand I still preferred the 8 wires



Exact opposite for me. I'm always trying to tone down the lower mids as they make the sound congested to my ears. 8 wire cables tend to sound too heavy for my taste. I tend to prefer 4 wires variants irrespective of cost.


----------



## olddude

Depends on the 8-wire.  The Ares ll 8-wire just opens up more, does not get congested at all.  Better instrument placement and a bit wider soundstage compared to the 4-wire.


----------



## proedros (Apr 9, 2020)

olddude said:


> Depends on the 8-wire.  The Ares ll 8-wire just opens up more, does not get congested at all.  Better instrument placement and a bit wider soundstage compared to the 4-wire.



4-wire was a very mediocre cable , 8-wire was better but still far from saying it 'a great cable' (imho)

when this corona thing ends , do yourself a gift, and buy Lionheart (very good , blows ares 8w out of the water...) or 1960s 2w (this is even more great,  a real TOTL cable) - a 2400$ iem deserves a fully great cable (but if you are on 7th heaven with ares 8w kudos to you)

You only Live Once.


----------



## olddude

I can't find a used 1960 in 2 pin 2.5.  I ordered an Eletech Fortitude for fun, but it's hung up in Singapore due to lack of parts and them being closed down.  I just got a PlusSound Exo Copper and am enjoying it.  More warmth than the Ares while stillkeeping things transparent.  Adds some nice crunch without losing the upper end.  Remember, I don't need anything that will bring any more brightness into my chain.  Hybrids really don't work for me.  Pure coppers give the best results, so if I DO find a 1960 I'll likely go for it.


----------



## proedros

my repaired Lioheart left Sinagpore on 3/20 and there is still zero update on its whereabouts , post is crap these days due to corona

if possible  try and buy something from US


----------



## Deferenz

olddude said:


> I can't find a used 1960 in 2 pin 2.5.  I ordered an Eletech Fortitude for fun, but it's hung up in Singapore due to lack of parts and them being closed down.  I just got a PlusSound Exo Copper and am enjoying it.  More warmth than the Ares while stillkeeping things transparent.  Adds some nice crunch without losing the upper end.  Remember, I don't need anything that will bring any more brightness into my chain.  Hybrids really don't work for me.  Pure coppers give the best results, so if I DO find a 1960 I'll likely go for it.



On the classified’s the poster oemerson has a 2 wire 1960 in 2pin, 2.5mm. Also the poster szore  is selling his 1950 2 pin, 2.5mm. Good price on that one.


----------



## Levanter

olddude said:


> I can't find a used 1960 in 2 pin 2.5.  I ordered an Eletech Fortitude for fun, but it's hung up in Singapore due to lack of parts and them being closed down.  I just got a PlusSound Exo Copper and am enjoying it.  More warmth than the Ares while stillkeeping things transparent.  Adds some nice crunch without losing the upper end.  Remember, I don't need anything that will bring any more brightness into my chain.  Hybrids really don't work for me.  Pure coppers give the best results, so if I DO find a 1960 I'll likely go for it.



Did you check with musicteck for the PW Audio?


----------



## olddude

Deferenz said:


> On the classified’s the poster oemerson has a 2 wire 1960 in 2pin, 2.5mm. Also the poster szore  is selling his 1950 2 pin, 2.5mm. Good price on that one.


Thanks.  I contacted one of them.


----------



## galangerz

Anyone here have any experience with Xiaofan?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32886370571.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.56.428555e61IkI5V


----------



## artpiggo

Kenneth Galang said:


> Anyone here have any experience with Xiaofan?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32886370571.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.56.428555e61IkI5V



I see one Thai user buying Gu Ag Pd Cu for 4 cables for all his headphone/IEMs and said it is the best sounding he experienced. But I am not his friend so I cannot ask him for trying.

I would like to know if anyone experienced this during any exhibitions too.


----------



## QBB251

twister6 said:


> Both sound close enough, just a little difference in treble.  And that's why I'm leaning more toward PS because with U18t the treble is smoother.  Also, since I have Leo II octa, 4 wire PS is lighter.



Wow thank you! I think I should sell my 4-wire Leo II and get the PS now.. Anyone interested to get the Leo II please PM me? LOL


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi guys this is my review of Eletech's Prudence, a silver-plated copper cable for your consideration.

https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/04/review-eletech-cables-prudence/


----------



## ezekiel77

Animagus said:


> Hey guys! Here is my review of Electro Acousti Cryo-Litz 7N UP-OCC & 7N SCC cables on Twister6. They are nice high quality cables priced very well. Have a look and let me know what you think.
> 
> I don't know if Electro Acousti has been talked about here in this thread or not. So here is a para from my review about the company.
> 
> ...


Hope I'm not creeping you out by digging out an older post, but Electro Acousti cables are a brand I'm keeping a tab on because of the materials, variety, and value for money prospect. They appeared in a sponsored Facebook ad with some really nice photos and I went into the rabbit hole. The seller is responsive and very polite (although using a translator) and from the discusion I bought the XS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000413732979.html), a thick-gauge 8-wire OCC pure silver.

The build quality is impeccable, and at 8 wires the cable is soft and pliable. As for the sound, there is a lovely expansion of the soundstage with an excellent balance in tone and transparency. I haven't done any in-depth comparisons yet, but they are definitely worth the asking price.


----------



## Animagus

ezekiel77 said:


> Hope I'm not creeping you out by digging out an older post, but Electro Acousti cables are a brand I'm keeping a tab on because of the materials, variety, and value for money prospect. They appeared in a sponsored Facebook ad with some really nice photos and I went into the rabbit hole. The seller is responsive and very polite (although using a translator) and from the discusion I bought the XS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000413732979.html), a thick-gauge 8-wire OCC pure silver.
> 
> The build quality is impeccable, and at 8 wires the cable is soft and pliable. As for the sound, there is a lovely expansion of the soundstage with an excellent balance in tone and transparency. I haven't done any in-depth comparisons yet, but they are definitely worth the asking price.



Hey! Of course not! I haven't tried that one yet but happy to know you dig the brand too.


----------



## artpiggo

I bought MS series too. Wait for arrival.

If it is good, I will go for his palladium cable.


----------



## ezekiel77

artpiggo said:


> I bought MS series too. Wait for arrival.
> 
> If it is good, I will go for his palladium cable.


I have my eye on that too haha. Less than USD500 for a palladium, really hard to resist.


----------



## artpiggo

ezekiel77 said:


> I have my eye on that too haha. Less than USD500 for a palladium, really hard to resist.



I like how he designed the twist like dhc clone silver. Haha.


----------



## olddude (Apr 13, 2020)

I finally dropped the dime (well, lots more than a dime) and bought a used PW 1960 2-wire.  It's on it's way from HK so the worst part of this hobby is happening now: the wait.

I also ordered an Eletech Fortitude more than a month ago, but between lack of parts and a lockdown, Eric hasn't been able to get it to me. More wait.


----------



## Deezel177

Hey folks, 'hope you're all doing well and staying safe in quarantine wherever you are in the world. I've just published my review of Effect Audio's Code 51 on THL, which you may have already seen on both their thread, as well as Nic's. But, I'm sharing it here too for good measure.  As always, I hope you enjoy the review, and I hope you all continue to stay healthy and safe during these trying times. Cheers. 

*Effect Audio Code 51 - Titan Talk*


----------



## SeeSax

ezekiel77 said:


> I have my eye on that too haha. Less than USD500 for a palladium, really hard to resist.



Those cables certainly look high end and the price is refreshing. The XS mentions "OCC plated" though, are you sure it's pure silver and not SPC? I don't see any mention of copper, but the plated threw me off a bit. I'm passively looking (which means I'm only obsessing a few times a day rather than waking up all night in a cold sweat) for an interesting pure silver or palladium-plated silver option  

Also @Deezel177 great review of the Code 51, the comparison with Iliad is much appreciated. Thanks for your write-up! 

While we're talking cables, can't remember if I posted a photo of the Effect Audio "Phanes" cable, which is an upgrade option for the Unique Melody Mason V3+. There's very little mention of it here, probably because it only fits two IEMs (Mentor and Mason V3 with "dual-tone" plugs). But I'm highly, highly impressed with it. Given how you connect it, it is either palladium-plated Silver, or gold, palladium and silver alloy. Pretty unique I would say. Also, I think it shares hardware with some of the new EA Horus options with the black connectors. Buying it separately, it is pretty expensive, but since I went all in and committed to the V3+ for "end game" status, I had to get the upgrade cable which is much more reasonable as a package deal. 



-Collin-


----------



## Vitaly2017

OOoouuuu  interesting so this is the new end game iem ? I know you been threw a lot of them but what exactly made you stop at this one?
Congratulations on your new end game setup 







SeeSax said:


> Those cables certainly look high end and the price is refreshing. The XS mentions "OCC plated" though, are you sure it's pure silver and not SPC? I don't see any mention of copper, but the plated threw me off a bit. I'm passively looking (which means I'm only obsessing a few times a day rather than waking up all night in a cold sweat) for an interesting pure silver or palladium-plated silver option
> 
> Also @Deezel177 great review of the Code 51, the comparison with Iliad is much appreciated. Thanks for your write-up!
> 
> ...


----------



## SeeSax

Vitaly2017 said:


> OOoouuuu  interesting so this is the new end game iem ? I know you been threw a lot of them but what exactly made you stop at this one?
> Congratulations on your new end game setup



My son's name is Mason, so I am completely biased in naming this my end-game. It's really just because I refuse to ever sell it  

-Collin-


----------



## Vitaly2017

SeeSax said:


> My son's name is Mason, so I am completely biased in naming this my end-game. It's really just because I refuse to ever sell it
> 
> -Collin-




Hey when you love something just keep it ! It will bring joy !


----------



## ezekiel77

SeeSax said:


> Those cables certainly look high end and the price is refreshing. The XS mentions "OCC plated" though, are you sure it's pure silver and not SPC? I don't see any mention of copper, but the plated threw me off a bit. I'm passively looking (which means I'm only obsessing a few times a day rather than waking up all night in a cold sweat) for an interesting pure silver or palladium-plated silver option
> 
> Also @Deezel177 great review of the Code 51, the comparison with Iliad is much appreciated. Thanks for your write-up!
> 
> ...


Hey Collin, yeah some details are lost in translation, I am not 100% on what makes the XS, and the owner replied "electroplated silver" when I asked. It does sound like SPC when you put it that way (no point plating silver on top of a silver cable), but in the initial chat I had with him before buying, he said the XS was the best-sounding cable he had at the time (that's changed now since the palladium is his new TOTL). It does sound excellent though, with emphasis on soundstage, midrange and vocals.


----------



## twister6 (Apr 14, 2020)

SeeSax said:


> Those cables certainly look high end and the price is refreshing. The XS mentions "OCC plated" though, are you sure it's pure silver and not SPC? I don't see any mention of copper, but the plated threw me off a bit. I'm passively looking (which means I'm only obsessing a few times a day rather than waking up all night in a cold sweat) for an interesting pure silver or palladium-plated silver option
> 
> Also @Deezel177 great review of the Code 51, the comparison with Iliad is much appreciated. Thanks for your write-up!
> 
> ...



Hmm, this looks familiar.  Now, where did I see it?  Oh, yeah!!! 

Just got V3+ Mentor/Mason loaner from Musicteck.  I only spent a few minutes with these V3+ at Canjam NYC, so wanted to hear more and maybe put together a quick comparison write up.  Didn't realize Andrew will include EA Phanes cable along with it.


----------



## Likeimthere

proedros said:


> my repaired Lioheart left Sinagpore on 3/20 and there is still zero update on its whereabouts , post is crap these days due to corona
> 
> if possible  try and buy something from US



dang. . . I just sent my LEO II for repairs. . .meaning I’m not getting it back till June. . . Lol


----------



## Deezel177

SeeSax said:


> Those cables certainly look high end and the price is refreshing. The XS mentions "OCC plated" though, are you sure it's pure silver and not SPC? I don't see any mention of copper, but the plated threw me off a bit. I'm passively looking (which means I'm only obsessing a few times a day rather than waking up all night in a cold sweat) for an interesting pure silver or palladium-plated silver option
> 
> Also @Deezel177 great review of the Code 51, the comparison with Iliad is much appreciated. Thanks for your write-up!
> 
> ...



Thanks as always, Collin! 'Really appreciate your support. 



twister6 said:


> Hmm, this looks familiar.  Now, where did I see it?  Oh, yeah!!!
> 
> Just got V3+ Mentor/Mason loaner from Musicteck.  I only spent a few minutes with these V3+ at Canjam NYC, so wanted to hear more and maybe put together a quick comparison write up.  Didn't realize Andrew will include EA Phanes cable along with it.



Ooh... Janus-y.


----------



## proedros

Likeimthere said:


> dang. . . I just sent my LEO II for repairs. . .meaning I’m not getting it back till June. . . Lol



do what i did , buy another cable to kep you company until you get it back

I had an epiphany and bought a used/mint 1960s 2w (received it 3/10) and the quarantine has passed very easy thanx to music , as for Lionheart yeah i probably will get it somewhere around June/July


----------



## Likeimthere

proedros said:


> do what i did , buy another cable to kep you company until you get it back
> 
> I had an epiphany and bought a used/mint 1960s 2w (received it 3/10) and the quarantine has passed very easy thanx to music , as for Lionheart yeah i probably will get it somewhere around June/July



Hahahah only my wallet won't allow me to right now.  PSA!  Anyone want to loan out one of their cables to little ol me for a week or two? *PM me.* . . I'll be the one crying in the corner. . .


----------



## Ultrainferno

The Palladium Plated Hybrid. -> The full review, now on Headfonia! <-

https://www.headfonia.com/plussound-palladium-plated-hybrid-review/


----------



## owenhuu

First time doing a IEM re-cabling. Looking for experience with lcdi4's, wasn't sure if would benefit from a pure sliver occ, or a fusion sliver+copper. PS: focuses are vocals and acoustics both in small venues and orchestra settings. Only had experience with Norne before, so my experiences are quite limited.


----------



## ezekiel77

Hi guys this is the review of Eletech's Prudence, now in Head-Fi.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/eletech-prudence.24231/reviews#item-review-23609


----------



## CustomShop

Hi everyone, please suggest me cable for my JH Layla custom, really want TOP Hi-End balace 2.5 cable for AK SP1000


----------



## olddude

The Layla has a bass control on the cable, correct?  Moon Audio makes nice cables that run around $350-500 with bass pots.  You'd need to see what other makers might offer them.


----------



## CustomShop

olddude said:


> The Layla has a bass control on the cable, correct?  Moon Audio makes nice cables that run around $350-500 with bass pots.  You'd need to see what other makers might offer them.



*olddude, thank you, but bass control is does not mater for me(always max level). Maybe someone have experience with effect audio and labkable?*


----------



## Deezel177

CustomShop said:


> *olddude, thank you, but bass control is does not mater for me(always max level). Maybe someone have experience with effect audio and labkable?*



Effect wouldn't be my first recommendation for JH cables. They've run into several issues in the past with the dial attached to the mids and treble instead of the bass. That said, though, maybe they wouldn't be a bad shout if you were planning to ditch the bass control anyway. I believe PlusSound and/or DHC can make JH cables with pre-set bass levels (i.e. 12 o' clock, 2 o' clock, max, etc.) by using resistors.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi, can i ask for a great cable that adds a bit presence and richness to vocals like push them a bit front, but i do not want more detail as i want more lush organic sound and to tame treble a bit if possible with great low end. is there such cable?


----------



## olddude

Sure-  A good copper cable should do that.   I'd suggest the PWAudio 1960 for all except the more detail.  It does push the mids forward, it does add a good bottom end, and it does extend the treble while making the notes fuller so it ends up being less tinny treble and more clean.  But as for detail, it does add a bit.  

But everything depends on what your source is and what IEM you plan to attach it to.  If you put those in your sig it would be a bit easier to figure out what might suit you.  I wouldn't put the 1960 on an LX out of a WMZ.  Also, Peter Wong told me the 1960 is very well suited for BA IEMs.  So perhaps more info would help.


----------



## Deezel177

Sound Eq said:


> hi, can i ask for a great cable that adds a bit presence and richness to vocals like push them a bit front, but i do not want more detail as i want more lush organic sound and to tame treble a bit if possible with great low end. is there such cable?



If you don’t mind splurging a bit, Effect Audio’s Janus D delivers pretty much all that. Though, I’d have to ask what you mean by “great” low-end. The Janus D’s is fairly tight and neutral; not adding to what the in-ear already has. Otherwise, though, I think that one’s a strong candidate.


----------



## 52203 (May 8, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> hi, can i ask for a great cable that adds a bit presence and richness to vocals like push them a bit front, but i do not want more detail as i want more lush organic sound and to tame treble a bit if possible with great low end. is there such cable?



I think cables from hansound fits your need. Their sound sig is towards lush and comfort.

Aegis 4, adds bass and juice to mid and low, high is fine and comfortable for long listening. Speed medium too. Good detail but not excessive, so not fatiguing. (Aegis 8 is really meaty and thick if that's what u want) (300 usd)

Kimera is also a good one, It's simpy aegis entirely shifted upwards for little bit. Therefore you get brighter / higher treble than aegis but lose a bit on sub bass. (600 usd)

I also have agni II 4&8 wire, its like kimera freq shifted upwards again, with faster speed and more detail. Less bass quantity. Still a laid back/comfort silver cable sound compare to maj of silvers. Only silver I heard better SQ and with comfort is crystal cable.

All hans are really nice cables to listen too. None of their cables are harsh at all. Aegis and kimera tuned for neutral bass, therefore not really tight type, I say tightness somewhere between med to tight, closer towards med.


----------



## proedros

Sound Eq said:


> hi, can i ask for a great cable that *adds a bit presence and richness to vocals* like push them a bit front, but i do not want more detail as *i want more lush organic sound and to tame treble a bit if possible* with great low end. is there such cable?



which iem/dap are you gonna use it with ?

i think *EA Lionheart* ticks all these boxes in bold, i used it with my Zeus XR and i got a more lush sound without killing Zeus' amazing transparency

*PW 1960s 2-wire* is also a great cable and the one i currently use with my Zeus XR - such amazing clarity (without sounding clinical) and the lows gets a big boost, but it won't smooth out the treble as you want - plus it also costs double the money (1000$ new to LH's 500$)

but again , most important thing is again synergy - more expensive does not always mean better


----------



## marcusd

Satin Audio Zeus review now posted with comparisons to the Athena and some of the big-hitting competitors 

https://headfonics.com/2020/05/satin-audio-zeus-review/


----------



## Deferenz

marcusd said:


> Satin Audio Zeus review now posted with comparisons to the Athena and some of the big-hitting competitors
> 
> https://headfonics.com/2020/05/satin-audio-zeus-review/



I already have the Hyperion 8 wire from Satin Audio and so I’m impressed with what you get for your money. As I own the Trio, the fact that you said it has good synergy with the Zeus makes this cable very appealing.


----------



## Sound Eq

proedros said:


> which iem/dap are you gonna use it with ?
> 
> i think *EA Lionheart* ticks all these boxes in bold, i used it with my Zeus XR and i got a more lush sound without killing Zeus' amazing transparency
> 
> ...


thanks for the recommendation


----------



## twister6

twister6 said:


> Well, maybe in a near future I will get a chance to compare 4wire vs 8wire of this new @PLUSSOUND  palladium plated hybrid cable.  But in a meantime, here is a full review.



The "near future" will happen sooner than later  @Vitaly2017 , since I just got on loan @PLUSSOUND  PPH 8wire version.  Will update my original review with comparison when I'm ready!


----------



## Vitaly2017 (May 9, 2020)

twister6 said:


> The "near future" will happen sooner than later  @Vitaly2017 , since I just got on loan @PLUSSOUND  PPH 8wire version.  Will update my original review with comparison when I'm ready!




Neet! I am very curious how this 8wires new plussound competes vs pw1960 4wires in terms of details retrieval, resolution, treble and bass.
Of course dont forget the noir 🤩😍
Thank you @twister6 

By the way thanks for amp t01 tests I found a good deal its on its way!


----------



## twister6

Vitaly2017 said:


> Neet! I am very curious how this 8wires new plussound competes vs pw1960 4wires in terms of details retrieval, resolution, treble and bass.
> Of course dont forget the noir 🤩😍
> Thank you @twister6
> 
> By the way thanks for amp t01 tests I found a good deal its on its way!



Don't want to cross-post with the whole copy'n'paste, and since you're already aware of my long reply in PS thread, I just going to provide a link for others if they are curious to read about @PLUSSOUND PPH4 vs PPH8 comparison, here.


----------



## gnahra

I am considering an all-silver cable upgrade and was wondering if there are thoughts/comparisons between a few that are on the brain:
-EA Thor II+
-Satin Audio Athena
-Null Audio Thera
-DHC Clone Silver
-Norne Silvergarde
I know the list is a bit long...but any help/thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you


----------



## szore

I had the Cleopatra and really liked it, but just a bit too smooth for me. Really opened up the sub bass tho!


----------



## 52203 (May 13, 2020)

I own hansound agni II  4&8 wire, compare to CCDD(heard but didn't buy) for your ref:

Agni has a lot of dynamic and energy on low end, smooth on treble, big sound stage, downside is vocal being far away with no passion, kinda V shape SQ

CCDD is smoother on treble compare to agni, and with more cohesion. Vocal more forward with passion. downside is small sound stage and not much dynamic and energy on low end.

Labkable titan ag is very sharp and harsh.


----------



## Vitaly2017

gnahra said:


> I am considering an all-silver cable upgrade and was wondering if there are thoughts/comparisons between a few that are on the brain:
> -EA Thor II+
> -Satin Audio Athena
> -Null Audio Thera
> ...




You may like the pw audio cable to, give it a  look.



https://www.pwaudio.com.hk/vanquish-series


----------



## Keirapc

gnahra said:


> I am considering an all-silver cable upgrade and was wondering if there are thoughts/comparisons between a few that are on the brain:
> -EA Thor II+
> -Satin Audio Athena
> -Null Audio Thera
> ...




You should consider the satin Medusa II, one of the best p/p pure silver cable i’ve ever heard.


----------



## Deferenz

Keirapc said:


> You should consider the satin Medusa II, one of the best p/p pure silver cable i’ve ever heard.



I own the Hyperion 8wire from Satin Audio. I can’t speak about the Medusa II, but I can say that Satin Audio give excellent sound value for the money the cable costs.


----------



## artpiggo

Give Brimar grand duke a try.


----------



## audio123

Han Sound Agni II Review. Enjoy & Happy Listening, as always. Take care and stay safe everyone!


----------



## alavenue

Hello friends,

I am looking to pair my QDC Anole VX with a copper cable or hybrid for a more musical sound and have narrowed it down to a few. I would love to get any feedback on which you'd recommended or other recommendations up to $350. Thanks!

PWAudio Anniversary Series No.5
Han Sound Audio | ZENTOO Plus
Eagle sign: CS Series UP-OCC COPPER
DUNU HULK


----------



## 52203 (May 19, 2020)

alavenue said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> I am looking to pair my QDC Anole VX with a copper cable or hybrid for a more musical sound and have narrowed it down to a few. I would love to get any feedback on which you'd recommended or other recommendations up to $350. Thanks!
> 
> ...



What cable u using currently? musical and narrow as?

Only one I have on your list is zentoo plus, it is 20awg thick but soft and comfortable cable. It gives a lot of low end power and overall dynamic range, treble does perform a little brighter than normal/majority of copper cable, I say brightness somewhere between silver and copper. Real big sound stage and warm touching vocal. Accurate instrument tone. This cable doesn't suit low freq emphasizing iem, it will give too much bass, nor dark/thick/dense sounding iem. But it all depends on ur taste and where u want qdc to sound like.

Others to put into consideration:
Hansound Zentoo "without plus"  (2 weeks wait)
Hansound Aegis     (2 weeks wait )
Plussound copper   (2 weeks wait)
Toxic bw22 v2    (half a year wait)


----------



## olddude

I have a Plussound Exo copper, which is really not a "high-end" cable but very nice indeed for its price.  I got it before I picked up a used PWAudio 1960.  It's incredibly supple, has a very good lower end, nice clear mids and nice treble.  A good clean sound overall.  I've used it maybe five times, so it's in perfect condition.  I'm selling it because I got the 1960, which really IS a high-end cable.  They both sound great with my Zeus.  I haven't listed it yet but it's sitting in its box on my desk.


----------



## audio123

PW No.10 Review. Enjoy & Happy Listening, as always. Take care and stay safe everyone!


----------



## notpeker

chaiyuta said:


> @noplsestar : Based on my experience, PSquared (in other word, Oyaide PP) provides lush vocal, more bass quantity than gold plated plug and eliminates any harsh treble but trade-off to smaller sound stage compared to rodium-plated plug. While EOS plug (which is Furutech CF-7254) provide the best of detail retrieval and enlarge soundstage, but trade-off to less bass quantity compared to thicker gold-plated plugs and Oyaide PP plug.
> 
> Can't be said Oyaide PP is the best of all plug. Both provide different sound tendency.


Have anyone try to change Psquared to Furutech? My Leo2 have some issue about plug consider to change to furutech but not sure sound will change in better way or not


----------



## tim0chan

notpeker said:


> Have anyone try to change Psquared to Furutech? My Leo2 have some issue about plug consider to change to furutech but not sure sound will change in better way or not


Furutech will probably sound as good or better but it has seriously compromised durability. If you want to try something new, may I suggest eidolic rhodium plated parts?


----------



## edwardsean (May 29, 2020)

notpeker said:


> Have anyone try to change Psquared to Furutech? My Leo2 have some issue about plug consider to change to furutech but not sure sound will change in better way or not



I switched out the Psquared to Furutech on my Horus. The Psquared plug has a higher resistivity than the Furutech so it may sound slightly more full but you lose transparency. The Oyaide is a bit dull in comparison whereas the Furutech is very smooth but also more clear. You already have palladium on the Leo2. The Psquared may provide a consistent match, but I think it's too much of the same thing. 

I've gone through many Eidolic plugs in the past as well, but I think Furutech just outperforms it. For these connectors, I don't think there is any better conductor than the copper based material that Furutech uses.

I've heard of the reports of the flaking on the rhodium plating, but I would still take Furutech any day of the week.


----------



## notpeker

edwardsean said:


> I switched out the Psquared to Furutech on my Horus. The Psquared plug has a higher resistivity than the Furutech so it may sound slightly more full but you lose transparency. The Oyaide is a bit dull in comparison whereas the Furutech is very smooth but also more clear. You already have palladium on the Leo2. The Psquared may provide a consistent match, but I think it's too much of the same thing.
> 
> I've gone through many Eidolic plugs in the past as well, but I think Furutech just outperforms it. For these connectors, I don't think there is any better conductor than the copper based material that Furutech uses.
> 
> I've heard of the reports of the flaking on the rhodium plating, but I would still take Furutech any day of the week.


Thank you 😊 it's very helpful


----------



## 52203

edwardsean said:


> I switched out the Psquared to Furutech on my Horus. The Psquared plug has a higher resistivity than the Furutech so it may sound slightly more full but you lose transparency. The Oyaide is a bit dull in comparison whereas the Furutech is very smooth but also more clear. You already have palladium on the Leo2. The Psquared may provide a consistent match, but I think it's too much of the same thing.
> 
> I've gone through many Eidolic plugs in the past as well, but I think Furutech just outperforms it. For these connectors, I don't think there is any better conductor than the copper based material that Furutech uses.
> 
> I've heard of the reports of the flaking on the rhodium plating, but I would still take Furutech any day of the week.



Totally agree, I have all my cables terminal with furutech CF plug also, their build quality and SQ is outstanding. 
I did have one with pentaconn NBP1-14-001  TOTL 4.4 plug (110 usd/pcs), although they sound good also, with different taste compare to furutech. 
But the build quality is not up to that of furutech. Particularly on the ring part, furutech is symmetrical but penta's kinda shifts left and right on each ring.


----------



## edwardsean

52203 said:


> Totally agree, I have all my cables terminal with furutech CF plug also, their build quality and SQ is outstanding.
> I did have one with pentaconn NBP1-14-001  TOTL 4.4 plug (110 usd/pcs), although they sound good also, with different taste compare to furutech.
> But the build quality is not up to that of furutech. Particularly on the ring part, furutech is symmetrical but penta's kinda shifts left and right on each ring.



Definitely, the build quality on the Furutech CFs are immaculate. 

I am interested in the Pentaconn for its OFC conductor. You said it has a "different taste compared to Furutech." Could you describe the differences in what you are hearing between the two? 

My guess would be that the Furu is smoother and the Penta is clearer. I'm just going on the plating materials though.


----------



## 52203 (May 30, 2020)

edwardsean said:


> Definitely, the build quality on the Furutech CFs are immaculate.
> 
> I am interested in the Pentaconn for its OFC conductor. You said it has a "different taste compared to Furutech." Could you describe the differences in what you are hearing between the two?
> 
> My guess would be that the Furu is smoother and the Penta is clearer. I'm just going on the plating materials though.



my personal exp and Comparison:

The penta is more planted, with really pitch black background, treble extension is good, when the note ends, it ends immediately, cut out clean. Overall warmer and darker on tone, and notes are more planted and solid, sound signal is more dense/cohesive. But can feel suffocating cause it sound like you r in recording room with sound deadening walls and no air is moving(by no means small sound stage).

Furutech is little brighter, with airier and more open background, treble extends little more than pentaconn, when the note ends, it ends like mist disappearing into air & background. Background is not as black, more like in a morning moist forest with sunshine shinning through trees. Notes not as planted as pentaconn.

Detail retrieval are similar. Both SQ works for me and i just go with furutech cause build quality and touch is better. And those carbon furus looks sexy~~
But do note that if your cable is TOO thick, then penta has a bigger bore opening to fit it.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Some days ago I posted a review of the MMR Homunculus, which I had somewhat mixed feelings about - the cable that comes included with it however, the Eletech Prudence, I've fallen in love with and already placed an order for. I had to ship out the Homunculus for the tour but I've already been missing the Prudence quite dearly. 

The build quality is nothing short of exceptional - I hold that Eletech has the absolute best hardware in the industry, and it's good to see that this quality has been maintained throughout the entire lineup. The Prudence doesn't quite ooze luxury like the Iliad, but I still find it's build better than any other cable I've owned, including any of the big name brands that sell cables at 10x the price of the Prudence. What I find quite remarkable about Eletech is just how well the pins fit my IEMs - other brands are often either too tight or too loose, which I can't attribute to anything but lack of proper QC. 

The cable's sheathing is something that I initially had some quarrels about as it felt quite stiff, but Eletech have changed that since their very early days, and I'm happy to report it's as supple as they come. The Iliad still has the upper hand in that respect, and I'd say the Leonidas II by EA remains slightly softer than the Prudence, but even for someone who's ultra pretentious about cable softness (I found the PW1950s way too stiff for example), the Prudence delivered. 

I personally also appreciate that they've taken the time to create a unique design for each of their cables instead of slapping the same hardware on their lineup - it makes each one feel like a unique product.

Where sound is concerned, I found that the Prudence has a gentle touch with a certain low/high focus. The bass feels slightly elevated, not too unlike that of the Iliad, with wonderful vocals - I liked female vocals on it better than I did male vocals, as it gave the Thumimm a slight upper midrange bump. The Prudence is also rather technical, providing a holographic soundstage, with reasonable width. The detail retrieval is something that I can't judge all that well coming from the detail monster that is the Iliad, but it certainly stacks up well against other cables I've listened to. 

Eletech have once again created an absolute masterpiece of a cable, and I am most certainly glad I got to try their entry level offerings after having spent a considerable amount of time with their TOTLs!


----------



## Sound Eq

artpiggo said:


> I bought MS series too. Wait for arrival.
> 
> If it is good, I will go for his palladium cable.


did u get a palladium cable from that store, and how come the huge price difference between this store and other companies. I am not a cable expert but i would like to know if what such stores on aliexpress sell is high quality


----------



## Sound Eq

ezekiel77 said:


> Hope I'm not creeping you out by digging out an older post, but Electro Acousti cables are a brand I'm keeping a tab on because of the materials, variety, and value for money prospect. They appeared in a sponsored Facebook ad with some really nice photos and I went into the rabbit hole. The seller is responsive and very polite (although using a translator) and from the discusion I bought the XS (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000413732979.html), a thick-gauge 8-wire OCC pure silver.
> 
> The build quality is impeccable, and at 8 wires the cable is soft and pliable. As for the sound, there is a lovely expansion of the soundstage with an excellent balance in tone and transparency. I haven't done any in-depth comparisons yet, but they are definitely worth the asking price.


did u try any of his palladium cables


----------



## ezekiel77

Sound Eq said:


> did u try any of his palladium cables


Ordered one since March but Covid-19 seriously slowed down the shipping. Don't know where it is currently.


----------



## artpiggo

Sound Eq said:


> did u get a palladium cable from that store, and how come the huge price difference between this store and other companies. I am not a cable expert but i would like to know if what such stores on aliexpress sell is high quality



No didnt get it. Just buy 175 cable.


----------



## Sound Eq

today i listened to a palladium + silver cable from neoteach with my hifiman he1000se, i was floored but its really expensive over 1.3k usd for 8 cores 1,5 meters, I wonder for iems are there great palladium silver cables that are below 600 usd


----------



## Wes S

Sound Eq said:


> today i listened to a palladium + silver cable from neoteach with my hifiman he1000se, i was floored but its really expensive over 1.3k usd for 8 cores 1,5 meters, I wonder for iems are there great palladium silver cables that are below 600 usd


The Satin Audio Athena, is a palladium silver and is under 600 usd.


----------



## Sound Eq

Wes S said:


> The Satin Audio Athena, is a palladium silver and is under 600 usd.


i was wondering how the 8 core athena compares to the 4 core


----------



## Wes S

Sound Eq said:


> i was wondering how the 8 core athena compares to the 4 core


Couldn't tell you, as I only own the 8 wire.  I am curious as well. . .


----------



## alavenue

I just got a Satin Audio cable and I’m happy with it, however the cable isn’t staying around my ears very well, I got it without heat shrink unfortunately. What kind of solutions are there to making it hook around my ears better?  Thanks!


----------



## IgeNeLL

Wes S said:


> The Satin Audio Athena, is a palladium silver and is under 600 usd.


Don't mess up between (1) Palladium plated Silver and (2) Palladium plated Silver + Pure Silver.
(1) is much more expensive, more than gold plated.
(2) is cheap for pure silver material is cheaper.
For my experience, Palad plated is about 1.2 to 1.3 x price of gold plated.


----------



## Wes S (Jun 11, 2020)

IgeNeLL said:


> Don't mess up between (1) Palladium plated Silver and (2) Palladium plated Silver + Pure Silver.
> (1) is much more expensive, more than gold plated.
> (2) is cheap for pure silver material is cheaper.
> For my experience, Palad plated is about 1.2 to 1.3 x price of gold plated.


Ok.  I am aware of the difference.  The Athena has Palladium plated silver, and silver, but still has Palladium plated silver, as suggested.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Wes S said:


> Ok.  I am aware of the difference.  The Athena has Palladium plated silver, and silver, but still has Palladium plated silver, as suggested.


The problem for Hybird is there proportion.
For example:
- 10% palladium plated Silver, 90% pure silver.
- 90% palladium plated Silver, 10% pure silver.
It is totally difference and the way they do(all brand) is to show the existence of palladium for higher price position not for their effect on SQ.
If you know, the Deep State 12x from Brimar is listing at 10k$ (Palladium plated Silver/Gold alloy). It is an insane price.


----------



## audio123

Plussound Exo Palladium Plated Hybrid Review. Having tested many cables that contain the palladium material. the Palladium Plated Hybrid (PPH) easily has the widest soundstage expansion out of the lot. Along with the holographic presentation, the PPH brings a lot more with great sub-bass rumble, organic midrange, smooth yet detailed treble. This is honestly one of the best cables I have tried. What a cable to mark Plussound 8th anniversary!


----------



## miliaudio

Currently I am deciding on which cable I should get for my u12t, I have been looking at Horus octa and the 1960s 4 wire cable. But also feel free to suggest any other cables that might pair up with u12t nicely.


----------



## audio123

miliaudio said:


> Currently I am deciding on which cable I should get for my u12t, I have been looking at Horus octa and the 1960s 4 wire cable. But also feel free to suggest any other cables that might pair up with u12t nicely.


You might want to give Plussound PPH 8 wire cable a go. I am super impressed with the 4 wire variant already and based off the @twister6 comparison on the 4 wire & 8 wire, the 8 wire variant seems like an ideal pairing with the U12t. Cheers.


----------



## Skullar

Hey guys. Just wondering is there a cable that highlights mids without enhancing bass? Dont mind if treble gets smoothed out a bit as long as it keeps it detailed. 

Basically i have bass and treble spot on but would like to push mids up a bit. Also stage increase would be a great bonus.

Was looking ant Plussound GPC Exo but it seems to add some subbass. And my iems have plenty of it. 

Any thoughts? 

Thanks


----------



## audio123

Skullar said:


> Hey guys. Just wondering is there a cable that highlights mids without enhancing bass? Dont mind if treble gets smoothed out a bit as long as it keeps it detailed.
> 
> Basically i have bass and treble spot on but would like to push mids up a bit. Also stage increase would be a great bonus.
> 
> ...


Plussound Exo Palladium Plated Hybrid is my top pick for that description.


----------



## Deezel177

Skullar said:


> Hey guys. Just wondering is there a cable that highlights mids without enhancing bass? Dont mind if treble gets smoothed out a bit as long as it keeps it detailed.
> 
> Basically i have bass and treble spot on but would like to push mids up a bit. Also stage increase would be a great bonus.
> 
> ...



Effect Audio’s Grandioso should do just that. Though, its more forward midrange may make the stage feel a tad more intimate. So, it’s a bit of a give-and-take.


----------



## Skullar

Deezel177 said:


> Effect Audio’s Grandioso should do just that. Though, its more forward midrange may make the stage feel a tad more intimate. So, it’s a bit of a give-and-take.


Yeh i thought that might be the case. And my Iems, while excelent depth, could do with any extra help with width. 

So thinking something with gold+silver might do the trick. Unfortunately its just not neccessarily always the case.

Another thing is i dont really want to go above $500 as i just cannot justify sublte changes being worth more than that. 

So my options are relatively limited i guess.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Skullar said:


> Yeh i thought that might be the case. And my Iems, while excelent depth, could do with any extra help with width.
> 
> So thinking something with gold+silver might do the trick. Unfortunately its just not neccessarily always the case.
> 
> ...


Skullar

May I suggest reaching out to both via email or social media?
When I had similar questions and narrowed it down to either a PlusSound or Effect Audio product, I posted a question to both, got answers back quickly (PlusSound same day, Effect Audio next Day) with very useful information.
To shorten the cycle of back and forth, put in your requirements and price range, and you will get very honest answers back from both.
for subsequent purchases I have done the same with both and received back good information that was specific to my uses cases, and happy with the results.
YMMV but I think you'll be please with either companies products.


----------



## Skullar

NJoyzAudio said:


> Skullar
> 
> May I suggest reaching out to both via email or social media?
> When I had similar questions and narrowed it down to either a PlusSound or Effect Audio product, I posted a question to both, got answers back quickly (PlusSound same day, Effect Audio next Day) with very useful information.
> ...


This is actually a good idea. Both companies are really top of list when it comes to how great they look.
Plussound GPC just asks to be matched with iems and going 2 wires it would be extremely portable. Though not sure if its what i need sound wise.

I will drop a line for both.

Thanks for suggestion @NJoyzAudio


----------



## Skullar

Anyone who owns Plussound Exo cable. Do you guys find it portable enough? 12mm splitter seems a bit chunky to wear under clothes. What are your thoughts 

And do you think 2 wire vs 4 wire has significant impact on sound?

Cheers!


----------



## audio123 (Jun 15, 2020)

Skullar said:


> Anyone who owns Plussound Exo cable. Do you guys find it portable enough? 12mm splitter seems a bit chunky to wear under clothes. What are your thoughts
> 
> And do you think 2 wire vs 4 wire has significant impact on sound?
> 
> Cheers!


I have the Exo GPC. Which IEM are you going to pair with? The y-splitter is not that big but of course, YMMV.

Have not tried 2 vs 4 but with 4 vs 8, bigger stage and tighter sound.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Skullar said:


> Anyone who owns Plussound Exo cable. Do you guys find it portable enough? 12mm splitter seems a bit chunky to wear under clothes. What are your thoughts
> 
> And do you think 2 wire vs 4 wire has significant impact on sound?
> 
> Cheers!


Skullar

I own the X8 version of the Plus Sound Tri-Silver and it is for use while traveling as well as just day to day use, as my daily driver cable now.
I do NOT find the cable size as a 8 wire design uncomfortable, although I'm use to 8 wire designs as almost all JH Audio 4 Pin connections are 8 wire, and very much use to it now.
The only recommendation I can make is rather than braiding the cable from the Y-split to the IEM terminations, with PlusSound they offer a "twisted" option which makes the cable a little easier/more comfortable to use around the ears.  PlusSound does NOT use memory wire (good for comfort) and the twisted design just falls around the ear comfortably.
For Effect Audio they braid their 4 and 8 wire designs from the Y-Split, but about 4-6 inches from the IEM termination do change to a "twisted" presentation for around the ear, and you can specify the memory wire covering or not.  
The twisted design is why I think both the EA and PlusSound are comfortable in their 4 and 8 wire presentations. IMO and YMMV

And finally some on these forums use a shirt clip to help, but I haven't needed one with the X8 (PlusSound) or 8 wire bespoke (Effect Audio) designs I use from both companies, but again that is just me and YMMV.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Skullar (Jun 15, 2020)

audio123 said:


> I have the Exo GPC. Which IEM are you going to pair with? The y-splitter is not that big but of course, YMMV.


It would be Legeng X. And exo GPC visually would be match made in heaven  its best looking cable by far.

I am just worried that it will make it sound too thick in lower midrange. I am really looking for a bump in middle and upper mids.
Not looking to go pure silver as i really dont want to make them too brighr in treble. Which is just spot on to me now.

Im probably being a bit too specific here



NJoyzAudio said:


> The only recommendation I can make is rather than braiding the cable from the Y-split to the IEM terminations, with PlusSound they offer a "twisted" option which makes the cable a little easier/more comfortable to use around the ears.


Yeh i much prefer cables without earguide of any kind.  Though ares II is fine with them i believe plussound cables are thicker.
Bit my main issue is cable under clothc ie. jacket. I had Eros II + and it just used to pull out my iems due to being fairly thick. And those memory wires did not help either. So ever since i am cautious to go with thicker cable. Though that cable was given away for me and its seen its day so might have just stiffened up. Hencr the lack of comfort.

So maybe i just need to give it a try. Especially if what you guys say about thicker(more wires) cables giving bigger staging.
As LX stage width is not its strongest point.

EA 4 wire is no issue as long as its not a "+" model

Plussound Exo  i believe should be similar size to EA + cables correct?
When you say they off twisted ones, is it that "flat" braiding you are referring to?


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Skullar said:


> It would be Legeng X. And exo GPC visually would be match made in heaven  its best looking cable by far.
> 
> I am just worried that it will make it sound too thick in lower midrange. I am really looking for a bump in middle and upper mids.
> Not looking to go pure silver as i really dont want to make them too brighr in treble. Which is just spot on to me now.
> ...


Skullar

My Bad.
For some reason I thought you were looking at the X6 (6 wire option)
For the Exo it is a 4 wire option, and PlusSound automatically goes with the "twisted" braid hence no option.
for the X6 and X8 for the L/R cables they actually offer a "Twisted" option.  
(See Screen shot attached)





The PlusSound cables as far as I can tell are all 26AWG thickness.
the EA + in their heritage lines use a 22AWG cable which is pretty heavy and thick
The PlusSound and EA normal cabling both use 26AWG (only the EA Janus B or D and maybe some of the Hours Special editions use 24AWG wire)
If you were thinking of the EA + Series, but wanted something in between it, and the normal 4 wire designs, PlusSound does offer a 6 wire design (their X6 models) which several people have reviewed and commented on it being a nice compromise between the 4 wire and 8 wire designs, with less physical weight and size than an 8 wire cable.
I've read on this site, you could ask EA to do a bespoke 6 wire, but that was a number of year ago, so best to check with them before assuming they will.

It probably is just me, but I do not mind the 8 wire design cables, for what I do perceive as a different sound signature that I seem to prefer, but this is again my personal taste so YMMV.

Hope this information helps
Best wishes and hope you find the sound signature you want and are looking for.


----------



## Skullar

NJoyzAudio said:


> Skullar
> 
> My Bad.
> For some reason I thought you were looking at the X6 (6 wire option)
> ...


Well i had a word with Plussound and i was suggested to go for silver+gold. Another option gold plated silver but i could not get anything but 2 wire. 

And knowing that i never tried more then 4 wires. I am now thinking of doing what i swore i never would 

I think 6X silver+gold has a good chance to go into my collection.

Just because whatever my gut feeling is telling me its ussualy full of crap


----------



## audio123

Skullar said:


> It would be Legeng X. And exo GPC visually would be match made in heaven  its best looking cable by far.
> 
> I am just worried that it will make it sound too thick in lower midrange. I am really looking for a bump in middle and upper mids.
> Not looking to go pure silver as i really dont want to make them too brighr in treble. Which is just spot on to me now.
> ...


Yea understandable. For me, the bass of LX is too much to start off with so it is only natural for you to find a cable to bump up the midrange only. Silver + gold seems like a good match without thickening the lower midrange.


----------



## Skullar

audio123 said:


> Yea understandable. For me, the bass of LX is too much to start off with so it is only natural for you to find a cable to bump up the midrange only. Silver + gold seems like a good match without thickening the lower midrange.


Well i just hope gold part of a cable will keep treble close to where it is now.
As i find highs and upper highs to be speaker like and not fatiguing, without loosing ability to highlight detail.

This makes my cable hunt bit less straight forward and more complicated.


----------



## circafreedom

I’m looking for an upgrade to the stock ier-z1r cable. I’d like something that helps with mid resolution and soundstage if possible. Also keeps the low end tight. Some options I’ve seen are the Leo II and Plato. I’m not sure if these would be best. I’m a newly converted cable guy. After the swap of my elysium cable, I want to see what more I can get out of the z1r. Any thoughts are appreciated.


----------



## mvvRAZ

circafreedom said:


> I’m looking for an upgrade to the stock ier-z1r cable. I’d like something that helps with mid resolution and soundstage if possible. Also keeps the low end tight. Some options I’ve seen are the Leo II and Plato. I’m not sure if these would be best. I’m a newly converted cable guy. After the swap of my elysium cable, I want to see what more I can get out of the z1r. Any thoughts are appreciated.


If you're looking to give some speed/control to the low end my vote goes to the Plato


----------



## ezekiel77

ezekiel77 said:


> Ordered one since March but Covid-19 seriously slowed down the shipping. Don't know where it is currently.





They are finally here! Eagle's (says there in Chinese but the shopfront is CEMA Electro Acousti) finest, the palladium/gold/silver/OCC copper hybrid. Thick gauge, 4 wires, reminds me of a thinner Norne Silvergarde S2. At $368 I'm not sure about the value proposition, but it's well-built for sure. Sound-wise there's an increase in details, dynamics and soundstage, while keeping the bass right and tight. Loving it so far, will defo do more testing!


----------



## Sound Eq (Jun 18, 2020)

ezekiel77 said:


> They are finally here! Eagle's (says there in Chinese but the shopfront is CEMA Electro Acousti) finest, the palladium/gold/silver/OCC copper hybrid. Thick gauge, 4 wires, reminds me of a thinner Norne Silvergarde S2. At $368 I'm not sure about the value proposition, but it's well-built for sure. Sound-wise there's an increase in details, dynamics and soundstage, while keeping the bass right and tight. Loving it so far, will defo do more testing!



eagerly awaiting your impressions


----------



## subguy812

I posted some thoughts on the PW Audio No.10. It is a fine solution for an upgrade cable that comes in at entry-level pricing.

PW Audio No. 10


----------



## Sound Eq (Jun 18, 2020)

hi can i ask please, i have iems that are 2 pins and iems that are mmcx, and I want to buy one expensive totl cable, but I am a bit not certain for which iem i want to buy that cable, as i like to test that cable on both iems.

I already own 2 cables by OC studio, which are a 2 pin, and I have a 2 pin to mmcx converter, but when i use the OC studio cables with that adapter from westone they literally suck in sound, while they sounds great when used alone without the converter on my iems

Does anyone have great experience using a converter or is it expected that using those converters totally messes up the sound. and if you can vouch for using those converters would buy the expensive cable to 2 pin or mmcx and use it with a converter


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

Not very relevant, but ... My review of the cable Whiplash TwAu on Porta.fi.
https://porta.fi/whiplash-audio-twau-reference-cable-review-eclipsing-the-disadvantages/


----------



## Deferenz

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Not very relevant, but ... My review of the cable Whiplash TwAu on Porta.fi.
> https://porta.fi/whiplash-audio-twau-reference-cable-review-eclipsing-the-disadvantages/


Nice review. I did like the contrast of the brown leaves against the colour of the cable, dap and IEMs in the photo’s. One thing I thought was missing though, for me anyway, was a picture of the cable on its own. I like to see the thing draped loosely so that I can see clearly the pins, termination and y-split. I guess it kind of gives me a full visual impression. But that’s just me. The review matters more and the pics are the icing on the cake.


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

Deferenz said:


> Nice review. I did like the contrast of the brown leaves against the colour of the cable, dap and IEMs in the photo’s. One thing I thought was missing though, for me anyway, was a picture of the cable on its own. I like to see the thing draped loosely so that I can see clearly the pins, termination and y-split. I guess it kind of gives me a full visual impression. But that’s just me. The review matters more and the pics are the icing on the cake.



Thank you. I'm a little confused not only about the text, but also with the photos for reviews. As for me, if you do something so that it would be interesting to read or watch for youreself. And the visual component is just as important for me, it's nice not only to read interesting information, but also to see beautiful photos. And leaves or other similar things are a reference to the naturalness of the sound, which we are all looking for. As for the cable splitter - for me this moment is always important, I wear headphones with the cable across my back. As for accessories, I just love different little things like that. After all, it's just convenient.


----------



## olddude

If anyone is interested, I have a PlusSound Exo Copper 2.5 2-pin cable up for sale.  Great cable, but once I got the PWAudio 1960 it became superfluous.  Used 5 hours.  A bit warmer than an Ares ll, mids about the same, just a hair off the top.


----------



## rpade

Do you guys know anybody that can make an 8-wire cable made of 22awg type-6 litz wire terminated in 2-pin cIEM connector and 4.4mm BAL? I wanna see a thiccer PW Audio no.10 8-wire for bling


----------



## Deferenz

rpade said:


> Do you guys know anybody that can make an 8-wire cable made of 22awg type-6 litz wire terminated in 2-pin cIEM connector and 4.4mm BAL? I wanna see a thiccer PW Audio no.10 8-wire for bling


An 8 wire 22awg cable would be as thick as the snake in the movie Anaconda 🤭


----------



## rpade (Jun 25, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> An 8 wire 22awg cable would be as thick as the snake in the movie Anaconda 🤭


Should be equivalent AWG thiccness as DHC's Symbiote Elite 19. I did mention that it is for the bling factor not comfort nor performance  DHC cables are harder to get a hold of right now.


----------



## Skullar

rpade said:


> Do you guys know anybody that can make an 8-wire cable made of 22awg type-6 litz wire terminated in 2-pin cIEM connector and 4.4mm BAL? I wanna see a thiccer PW Audio no.10 8-wire for bling


Plusssound audio do 26awg 8 wires. Plenty of materials and terminations to choose from. Plus you can choose braiding.
http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/inearmonitor.html


----------



## rpade (Jun 26, 2020)

Skullar said:


> Plusssound audio do 26awg 8 wires. Plenty of materials and terminations to choose from. Plus you can choose braiding.
> http://www.plussoundaudio.com/customcables/inearmonitor.html


Get those skinny ass cables away from me. /jk

For real tho, I haven't seen crazy cable thiccness since DHC's Elite 19 or Toxic Cable's Medusa or Deez Audio's Hygieia Mk II. I just want my bling, bro.


----------



## Skullar

rpade said:


> Get those skinny ass cables away from me. /jk
> 
> For real tho, I haven't seen crazy cable thiccness since DHC's Elite 19 or Toxic Cable's Medusa or Deez Audio's Hygieia Mk II. I just want my bling, bro.


Toxic ones are 22 awg max no? Plussound is 26. Not sure if there are thicker then 26 wires for iems. I thought you want them Thick.


----------



## rpade

Skullar said:


> Toxic ones are 22 awg max no? Plussound is 26. Not sure if there are thicker then 26 wires for iems. I thought you want them Thick.


Bruv, smaller # AWG is thicker.


----------



## Skullar

rpade said:


> Bruv, smaller # AWG is thicker.


Ooookkkk.... I guess live and learn lmao  
Honestly i thought its the othe way around. 
But what else can you expect from americans. 
They still measure distance with a size of shoe. God knows how that Empire State building managed to end up standing straight haha.


----------



## normie610

rpade said:


> Do you guys know anybody that can make an 8-wire cable made of 22awg type-6 litz wire terminated in 2-pin cIEM connector and 4.4mm BAL? I wanna see a thiccer PW Audio no.10 8-wire for bling



Norne has 8x21AWG cables if you’d like. But you have to email Trevor to order, and it will take some time and extra patience to get your cable.


----------



## rpade (Jun 27, 2020)

normie610 said:


> Norne has 8x21AWG cables if you’d like. But you have to email Trevor to order, and it will take some time and extra patience to get your cable.


This is not in his current mainstream line-up? Almost a custom order? Just making sure that he can fit it all in for 2-pin cIEM


----------



## drbluenewmexico

olddude said:


> If anyone is interested, I have a PlusSound Exo Copper 2.5 2-pin cable up for sale.  Great cable, but once I got the PWAudio 1960 it became superfluous.  Used 5 hours.  A bit warmer than an Ares ll, mids about the same, just a hair off the top.


Pm me with link to sale plz
Drbluenewmexico
Or drblue@mac.com


----------



## normie610

rpade said:


> This is not in his current mainstream line-up? Almost a custom order? Just making sure that he can fit it all in for 2-pin cIEM



it can fit, don’t worry. Mine is coming in on Monday. Here’s the picture:


----------



## rpade

normie610 said:


> it can fit, don’t worry. Mine is coming in on Monday. Here’s the picture:


Yo, do you have another mainstream cable to compare thiccness? I only have the PW Audio #10 (thick silver), some random chi-fi cable (gold), and the cable that came with my cIEM (thinner silver)


----------



## normie610

rpade said:


> Yo, do you have another mainstream cable to compare thiccness? I only have the PW Audio #10 (thick silver), some random chi-fi cable (gold), and the cable that came with my cIEM (thinner silver)



I’d be able to do so when those cables arrive, hopefully tomorrow


----------



## Sound Eq (Jun 29, 2020)

so i have an expensive silver cable, I do not want to name the company, and after 4 month its starting to turn dark and oxidize. I always keep my iems and cables in a pouch

I would like to really know , did anyone own a silver cable for more than 1 year and it did not turn dark and oxidize, if yes can you give examples. To be honest buying expensive silver cables, and then they turn dark is an eye sore to me.


----------



## normie610

Sound Eq said:


> so i have an expensive silver cable, I do not want to name the company, and after 4 month its starting to turn dark and oxidize. I always keep my iems and cables in a pouch
> 
> I would like to really know , did anyone own a silver cable for more than 1 year and it did not turn dark and oxidize, if yes can you give examples. To be honest buying expensive silver cables, and then they turn dark is an eye sore to me.



I never experienced such thing. I have one I bought in 2015 and no change in colour.


----------



## Deezel177 (Jun 29, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> so i have an expensive silver cable, I do not want to name the company, and after 4 month its starting to turn dark and oxidize. I always keep my iems and cables in a pouch
> 
> I would like to really know , did anyone own a silver cable for more than 1 year and it did not turn dark and oxidize, if yes can you give examples. To be honest buying expensive silver cables, and then they turn dark is an eye sore to me.



Silver cables can oxidise too. It's a matter of whether the cable is Litz or not. I've had numerous cables with all sorts of configs for years, and none of the Litz ones have oxidised. If your cable is advertised as a Litz cable *and* it's still oxidised, then that's a problem. Usually, that's caused by a puncture in the isolation (most commonly, around the plugs or Y-split) that's letting air in.


----------



## normie610

rpade said:


> Yo, do you have another mainstream cable to compare thiccness? I only have the PW Audio #10 (thick silver), some random chi-fi cable (gold), and the cable that came with my cIEM (thinner silver)



Here’s a pic I took this morning to compare elysium’s 8x28 awg vs norne’s 8x21 awg:


----------



## Deezel177

normie610 said:


> Here’s a pic I took this morning to compare elysium’s 8x28 awg vs norne’s 8x21 awg:



You vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about.


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deezel177 said:


> You vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about.


Ouch.


----------



## normie610

Deezel177 said:


> You vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about.



Luckily I was the guy


----------



## rpade

normie610 said:


> Here’s a pic I took this morning to compare elysium’s 8x28 awg vs norne’s 8x21 awg:


Can I have a looksie of the ear loop part? How's the weight on your ears when using it?


----------



## normie610

rpade said:


> Can I have a looksie of the ear loop part? How's the weight on your ears when using it?



It does feel heavier, but doesn’t bother me at all as I still feel comfortable. The cable is very soft and pliant, perhaps due to the TPU jacket material used.


----------



## gnahra

normie610 said:


> It does feel heavier, but doesn’t bother me at all as I still feel comfortable. The cable is very soft and pliant, perhaps due to the TPU jacket material used.


very nice!
are you still thinking the Silvergarde 8-wire is too heavy/bulky to use on the go?  Are the sound differences vs the 4-wire very noticable, or are they more subtle?


----------



## normie610

gnahra said:


> very nice!
> are you still thinking the Silvergarde 8-wire is too heavy/bulky to use on the go?  Are the sound differences vs the 4-wire very noticable, or are they more subtle?



If you’re planning to use it while walking, I’d say you might be better off finding a smaller/thinner cable. The sound difference is surprisingly very noticeable.


----------



## normie610

And here’s the 8x21 awg fusion copper + silver cable attached to my M5. Sublime pairing indeed, especially with 1Z.


----------



## rpade

normie610 said:


> And here’s the 8x21 awg fusion copper + silver cable attached to my M5. Sublime pairing indeed, especially with 1Z.


Ah, a semester's worth of gear 🤤


----------



## normie610

rpade said:


> Ah, a semester's worth of gear 🤤



You’re quite right, never thought of that


----------



## Deferenz

normie610 said:


> Here’s a pic I took this morning to compare elysium’s 8x28 awg vs norne’s 8x21 awg:


That Norne cable looks huge. You could walk a dog with that! 😃


----------



## normie610

Deferenz said:


> That Norne cable looks huge. You could walk a dog with that! 😃



or use it as a whip


----------



## Deferenz

normie610 said:


> or use it as a whip


I have a 4 wire 22awg silver cable which I thought was quite big. I do like the look of that norne though.


----------



## normie610

Deferenz said:


> I have a 4 wire 22awg silver cable which I thought was quite big. I do like the look of that norne though.



Yep it’s a gorgeous cable indeed


----------



## IgeNeLL

Just receive my new cable, every thing is different level than other cable despite of small gauge size, I was quite shocked about the appearance.


----------



## kubig123

IgeNeLL said:


> Just receive my new cable, every thing is different level than other cable despite of small gauge size, I was quite shocked about the appearance.


I’ve always been very interested to try any Crystal Canles, but in the US are not so easy to find.


----------



## IgeNeLL

kubig123 said:


> I’ve always been very interested to try any Crystal Canles, but in the US are not so easy to find.


I buy from a dealer in Australia.
I think you could ask the fanpage on FB for support.


----------



## ayang02

IgeNeLL said:


> Just receive my new cable, every thing is different level than other cable despite of small gauge size, I was quite shocked about the appearance.



Congrats! The DD is one of the best pure silver cables on the market: detail and soundstage enhancement with very little sound coloration.


----------



## IgeNeLL

ayang02 said:


> Congrats! The DD is one of the best pure silver cables on the market: detail and soundstage enhancement with very little sound coloration.


Not one of the best, I think no other cable can keep up with this quality level for that configuration of gauge size.
The micro detail, large scale and micro cable of the transient are both insane. Transient is sudden, movement of note(pitch movement, impact/force movement) is complete, no other cable can touch this performance. I'm thinking of using DD in internal wiring for ultimate synergy but it is challenging.


----------



## Wes S

IgeNeLL said:


> Just receive my new cable, every thing is different level than other cable despite of small gauge size, I was quite shocked about the appearance.


Nice!  That color would look insanely awesome, with my K10U.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Wes S said:


> Nice!  That color would look insanely awesome, with my K10U.


Perfect match with glossy Piano Black or Dard Red :3


----------



## Deezel177

'Just published my review of Eletech's Iliad over on their thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ele...scussions-thread.919228/page-40#post-15731143




Cheers!


----------



## ezekiel77

Yes sir, a USD400 copper cable is the proper introduction to the beautiful world of Brise Audio from Japan.

https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/review-brise-audio-str7-se/


----------



## subguy812

ayang02 said:


> Congrats! The DD is one of the best pure silver cables on the market: detail and soundstage enhancement with very little sound coloration.


How much is the cable?


----------



## audio123

Dunu cables! 

Luna Stock
Blanche
Chord
Noble
DUW-02
Lyre
Hulk
Viridian


----------



## ayang02

subguy812 said:


> How much is the cable?



I got this cable almost 1.5 years ago and it cost me around $1600 USD back then with the OFC 4.4 mm Pentaconn plug. I believe the price of the cable should be cheaper if you choose other plugs. Plus, it’s almost been two years since its release so I hope the actual street price is lower now.


----------



## Binsterrrrr (Jul 12, 2020)

IgeNeLL said:


> Just receive my new cable, every thing is different level than other cable despite of small gauge size, I was quite shocked about the appearance.





IgeNeLL said:


> Perfect match with glossy Piano Black or Dard Red :3



Did somebody say Piano Black + Dark Red? 🤔😉

Lime Ears Aether


----------



## IgeNeLL

Binsterrrrr said:


> Did somebody say Piano Black + Dark Red? 🤔😉
> 
> Lime Ears Aether


Be patient, I will show you


----------



## Binsterrrrr

IgeNeLL said:


> Be patient, I will show you


Looking forward to it! 😉 Definitely a beauty you have there!


----------



## Skyfall806

normie610 said:


> And here’s the 8x21 awg fusion copper + silver cable attached to my M5. Sublime pairing indeed, especially with 1Z.


That is a beautiful cable. What brand is it?


----------



## normie610

Skyfall806 said:


> That is a beautiful cable. What brand is it?



It’s Norne Audio


----------



## Skyfall806

normie610 said:


> It’s Norne Audio


Oh wow. I really want a 8-wire silvergarde but unfortunately it seems like they are only offering 4-wire silvergarde in the US market.


----------



## normie610

Skyfall806 said:


> Oh wow. I really want a 8-wire silvergarde but unfortunately it seems like they are only offering 4-wire silvergarde in the US market.



You need to email Trevor, it’s a customized order


----------



## choisan

is whiplash back with the founders who been making the cables or just the name only?


----------



## IgeNeLL

choisan said:


> is whiplash back with the founders who been making the cables or just the name only?


Whisplash has been sold to other company as I known.
From the conception in the whiplash website, I think you can find the similarity with the brand owner.


----------



## choisan

the new owner, per my reading from other place, it is from china, brimer something. not the same as before


----------



## IgeNeLL

choisan said:


> the new owner, per my reading from other place, it is from china, brimer something. not the same as before


Yes, Brimar.
I think this is emerging.
There still be different in looking of two brand


----------



## mvvRAZ

Doesn't Brimar sell their stuff at 12000$ ++++ though?


----------



## IgeNeLL

mvvRAZ said:


> Doesn't Brimar sell their stuff at 12000$ ++++ though?


I think it is 10k not 12k!


----------



## rtjoa (Jul 23, 2020)

mvvRAZ said:


> Doesn't Brimar sell their stuff at 12000$ ++++ though?





IgeNeLL said:


> I think it is 10k not 12k!


@mvvRAZ
Brimar owner did not finish his website due to family health issues. Everything was listed for $12k on Brimar website.
The website has been pulled down but hopefully it will be back soon. The $10k that @IgeNeLL mentioned is the Brimar TOTL Deep State cable.

@IgeNeLL
I have both Brimar Deep State HD and Classic. I prefer them over my other Brimar cables - Kaiser, Grand Master, Omni King and Ultimate (ex). Please give it a try since you have the Grand Master. My friend has the 8 wires version (the one with VE Erkonig below). PM you for the price.

12 wires Deep State







8 wires Deep State HD


----------



## proedros

10K for  a cable ? damn , snake oil at its fullest


----------



## mvvRAZ

rtjoa said:


> @mvvRAZ
> Brimar owner did not finish his website due to family health issues. Everything was listed for $12k on Brimar website.
> The website has been pulled down but hopefully it will be back soon. The $10k that @IgeNeLL mentioned is the Brimar TOTL Deep State cable.
> 
> ...


Interesting, so how much do Brimar cables actually go for? They're certainly very fancy looking, and I wouldn't mind getting one down the line if they're in line with the rest of the market


----------



## IgeNeLL (Jul 24, 2020)

Binsterrrrr said:


> Did somebody say Piano Black + Dark Red? 🤔😉
> 
> Lime Ears Aether



My piano black  i'm finding good picture of my dark red haha

After two week burning and listening:
- Any one can complain about the build or the looking but, look carefully in every finishing detail, it is outstanding.
- Bass resolution is extremely clean.
- Treble resolution is top notch, it is clearly that it will let you hear more detail of brass/wood wind group in the orchestral.
- The background is deadly silent, every detail is presented nicely and clearly.
- The harmonics resolution/timber is rich, the note wave form(vibrant transform) is clearly defined. The sound wave movement in the space is tangible, the sole or grouping instrumental is separated.
- The intensive/harmony of very tune is well control, the contrast or dynamic change, tone change, note articulation is perfect.
- Attach, initialize transient is sudden, quick shocking, after that the sustain and decay is natural follow.
- The mid range is smooth and have the unique timber that every cable from Crystal have( have some interconnect try), it hard to say but it is different from warm tone signature. Clean, Clear, just like the sky blue color( just imagine).

- Cons: Crystal does not build 8x, I think it could be more control if they do, especially for hard drive iems which will benefit much from heavy awg build.
- I'm getting new double duet, may be lower SQ but build in 8x form, may be better force, impact, lets try.


----------



## Deferenz

IgeNeLL said:


> My piano black  i'm finding good picture of my dark red haha
> 
> After two week burning and listening:
> - Any one can complain about the build or the looking but, look carefully in every finishing detail, it is outstanding.
> ...


Lol 😆 I know this is off topic, but the photo of your dap and cable, on the table with the flowers gives a very relaxing colour spread. It’s so calming to look at.


----------



## raydenray

If you had to chose between the Silverfi iem-r5 or the Dream Duet, what would guys take ? I would like to buy just one good cable and be set.


----------



## IgeNeLL

raydenray said:


> If you had to chose between the Silverfi iem-r5 or the Dream Duet, what would guys take ? I would like to buy just one good cable and be set.


I haven't listined to silverfi.
But my background has cover EA, Plussound, PW, ....
Crystal is actually different level. Remmemner they are hiend cable brand, in speaker domain mainly. 
The most impressive thing is, it just sound right.


----------



## Binsterrrrr

IgeNeLL said:


> My piano black  i'm finding good picture of my dark red haha
> 
> After two week burning and listening:
> - Any one can complain about the build or the looking but, look carefully in every finishing detail, it is outstanding.
> ...


Wow that looks absolutely beautiful 😍😍 Hope you enjoy your set-up!


----------



## IgeNeLL

Deferenz said:


> Lol 😆 I know this is off topic, but the photo of your dap and cable, on the table with the flowers gives a very relaxing colour spread. It’s so calming to look at.


I have no reason for not enjoy.
However, it is different view


----------



## mvvRAZ (Jul 29, 2020)

Hi everyone!

A friend of a friend is having a clearout on Effect Audio and Empire Ears with some rather crazy good deals the models aren’t the absolute latest (so no Valks, Wraiths and LX is sold out), but if you wanted to pick up an ESR, EVR, Nemesis or something else similar, do pm me!

From Effect Audio he has the Janus, Leo, Cleo, Lionhearts, Mars and many others, including very few black edition Leo cables even don’t hesitate to send me a message if you’re interested in anything!


----------



## Deferenz

mvvRAZ said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> A friend of a friend is having a clearout on Effect Audio and Empire Ears with some rather crazy good deals the models aren’t the absolute latest (so no Valks, Wraiths and LX is sold out), but if you wanted to pick up an ESR, EVR, Nemesis or something else similar, do pm me!
> 
> From Effect Audio he has the Janus, Leo, Cleo, Lionhearts, Mars and many others, including very few black edition Leo cables even don’t hesitate to send me a message if you’re interested in anything!


Are you or he going to put them up for sale on the classifieds here?


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deferenz said:


> Are you or he going to put them up for sale on the classifieds here?


I’ve done the EE ones yes, will do EA later  I’m posting them as lists though


----------



## Binsterrrrr

IgeNeLL said:


> I have no reason for not enjoy.
> However, it is different view


Wow that is a lot of gold in 1 picture HAHA. Personally using the SP1000SS, have been eyeing the SP2000 for the longest time and seeing all these pictures are just temping me!!


----------



## IgeNeLL

Binsterrrrr said:


> Wow that is a lot of gold in 1 picture HAHA. Personally using the SP1000SS, have been eyeing the SP2000 for the longest time and seeing all these pictures are just temping me!!


haha, just do it.
It worth.
Consider between sp1000+amp and s2000. I choose the 2nd choice.


----------



## Wyville (Jul 30, 2020)

raydenray said:


> If you had to chose between the Silverfi iem-r5 or the Dream Duet, what would guys take ? I would like to buy just one good cable and be set.


The SilverFi R5 is a huge cable and not one you will easily use out and about. I tried a few SilverFi cables and think it is important to understand those not the easiest to live with. A couple of friends of mine really love them, but for me it was impossible to live with the bigger ones like the R5.


----------



## marcusd (Aug 1, 2020)

Fresh review on a new silver/gold & palladium cable from AAW, the Aoraki. This one really opens up the low-end for bass lovers 

https://headfonics.com/aaw-aoraki-review/


----------



## gnahra

I posted this in the Norne thread, as well, but thought I would also ask this crew...

Any thoughts on a Norne Therium 8-wire vs. Silvergarde 4-wire for IEMs?
Does anyone have direct experience with either of the above and the Clone Silver? If so, would love impressions.

Thank you


----------



## Deferenz

marcusd said:


> Fresh review on a new silver/gold & palladium cable from AAW, the Aoraki. This one really opens up the low-end for bass lovers
> 
> https://headfonics.com/aaw-aoraki-review/


Another good review. It was interesting to read your thoughts on BA vs D, and I like the comparison with the Cleopatra.


----------



## normie610

gnahra said:


> I posted this in the Norne thread, as well, but thought I would also ask this crew...
> 
> Any thoughts on a Norne Therium 8-wire vs. Silvergarde 4-wire for IEMs?
> Does anyone have direct experience with either of the above and the Clone Silver? If so, would love impressions.
> ...



I only have an experience with 4-wire Therium vs 4-wire Silvergarde. Compared to Silvergarde, Therium‘s treble is sharper and makes the whole sound brighter, whereas the Silvergarde has this smoothness at the upper frequencies and yet maintains a very good treble presence with more energy and superb extension. Both has very similar sub-bass texture and go very deep, but Silvergarde has more visceral impact. Resolution on both are top notch with black background. Overall, for me the Silvergarde brings better improvement, it sounds fuller and more balanced of the two. If you don’t mind the added weight and thickness, I would suggest you go with the 8-wire Silvergarde, it will make the 4-wire version sounds like a low tier cable


----------



## gnahra

normie610 said:


> I only have an experience with 4-wire Therium vs 4-wire Silvergarde. Compared to Silvergarde, Therium‘s treble is sharper and makes the whole sound brighter, whereas the Silvergarde has this smoothness at the upper frequencies and yet maintains a very good treble presence with more energy and superb extension. Both has very similar sub-bass texture and go very deep, but Silvergarde has more visceral impact. Resolution on both are top notch with black background. Overall, for me the Silvergarde brings better improvement, it sounds fuller and more balanced of the two. If you don’t mind the added weight and thickness, I would suggest you go with the 8-wire Silvergarde, it will make the 4-wire version sounds like a low tier cable


Ok perfect, thank you!
Actually that feedback is super helpful - in particular the bit about the sharper treble.  I’m a bit sensitive to peaky/sharp treble to that’s perfect to know.
I will give the 8-wire a try, me thinks!
thank you


----------



## marcusd

Deferenz said:


> Another good review. It was interesting to read your thoughts on BA vs D, and I like the comparison with the Cleopatra.



It seems the obvious comparison given the price point and what each was pitching as being able to do with IEMs.


----------



## frankqxq

does anyone know, if the cable is loose between the line and the metal 2 pin connector, in the sense that the cable kinda rotates around instead of being fixed together with the metal part, is it defective? thanks.


----------



## IgeNeLL

frankqxq said:


> does anyone know, if the cable is loose between the line and the metal 2 pin connector, in the sense that the cable kinda rotates around instead of being fixed together with the metal part, is it defective? thanks.


It is normal because it is no connection(glue) between the inside heat sink and the outer connector body.
For solution, you can you heat sink to cover both the connector body and insider heatsink of the sleeve.


----------



## frankqxq

IgeNeLL said:


> It is normal because it is no connection(glue) between the inside heat sink and the outer connector body.
> For solution, you can you heat sink to cover both the connector body and insider heatsink of the sleeve.


thanks for the reply. I suppose that if I use it carefully without too much twisting, the cable is not at risk right?


----------



## IgeNeLL

frankqxq said:


> thanks for the reply. I suppose that if I use it carefully without too much twisting, the cable is not at risk right?


If you don't handle, it highly risks that the solder point(2 pin and cable) will twist while using. 
Broken will be soon or late.


----------



## Dsnuts

Don't know if people on this thread know about Penon cables. This is a new item on Penon just came up with very interesting mix of material here. Called the OSG https://penonaudio.com/penon-osg.html

The quality of these cables are amazing but don't cost a lot comparatively to the cables mentioned on this thread. The interesting aspect of these cables. It has to be a first to incorporate graphene in the cores. It looks like your garden variety of SPC OCC cable but these will add to an earphone sonics, a blacker background with stand out imaging making for more distinction from the bass to the upper trebles. I just got these today and I thought I would post about them here.


----------



## papa_mia

Dsnuts said:


> The interesting aspect of these cables. It has to be a first to incorporate* graphene* in the cores.


----------



## Dsnuts (Aug 10, 2020)

Lol. Ya it seems far fetched. I was like that too when I first heard about the new material being used on these. But I have my Solaris in my ears with this cable. I know my Solaris sound signature like the back of my hands so it becomes a good tester for cables for me. The Penon OSG brings something new to the table. These guys are proud of what they accomplished with these.  Base tuning is the tried and true silver plated crystal copper but that added graphene. I have no idea how they did it but makes this SPC variant like a super SPC cable. The only way to put it.
sound separation is clearly evident. Something you don't necessarily get with good SPC cables. The OSG clearly makes each part of the tuning nicely separated and sound becomes more defined in the process. I just got these so I will be trying out a lot of my earphones with the cables but using them on my Mofasest Trio does the same thing. Seems to have a consistant sound effect among my earphones.


----------



## aldinho878

I am looking for an upgrade from the Alo Pure SIlver. Similar ergonomics with no memory wire/ear guides, and something lightweight/flexible. Any recommendations? Prefer a pure silver cable but I am open to options. Something lightweight. Unfortunately a lot of these high end cables are somewhat heavy/bulky and not very flexible.


----------



## Dsnuts

aldinho878 said:


> I am looking for an upgrade from the Alo Pure SIlver. Similar ergonomics with no memory wire/ear guides, and something lightweight/flexible. Any recommendations? Prefer a pure silver cable but I am open to options. Something lightweight. Unfortunately a lot of these high end cables are somewhat heavy/bulky and not very flexible.



Don't get more lighter than the Penon Neo 
 I did a review for a set of these. These are excellent pure silver cables and looks like what your looking for. https://penon-official.com/product/penon-neo/


----------



## ezekiel77

ezekiel77 said:


> They are finally here! Eagle's (says there in Chinese but the shopfront is CEMA Electro Acousti) finest, the palladium/gold/silver/OCC copper hybrid. Thick gauge, 4 wires, reminds me of a thinner Norne Silvergarde S2. At $368 I'm not sure about the value proposition, but it's well-built for sure. Sound-wise there's an increase in details, dynamics and soundstage, while keeping the bass right and tight. Loving it so far, will defo do more testing!


This is Chime by Electro Acousti, a 4-metal hybrid cable with gold, silver, OCC copper and palladium. Snake oil much? But after spending some time with it here are my thoughts on the SQ.

The most obvious change was the incredible sense of space and air. Spatial dimensions are increased in width and depth on a grand scale. Imaging is excellent due to the large space and dark background.

Notes definition is better heard throughout the spectrum. Dynamics are also very present. Detail levels are enhanced with some refinement. This is not details for details' sake. The notes have a smooth, colored slant, but the decay of notes are very clean, crisp and airy, while the texture is incredible. It's easy to hear the nuance and micro-detail in the music delivered effortlessly.

Bass is super tight. Impact is immediate with the punch felt quickly, but decays with blazing speed, leaving the stage pristine. Personally, I'd like more bloom and body in the bass for it to sound more natural.

Mids are clear and neutrally placed, with excellent layering and dynamics. The tone is colored with a sweet tinge. Note thickness is a bit on the lean side, while timbre is slightly improved, padding off some digital edge in exchange for some smoothness, especially in decay. Vocals are clear and throaty but isn't the lush, alluring type. The emphasis is more on technical ability, air and micro-details.

Treble is crispy and highly resolving, with plenty of shimmer and sparkle and some coloration. Very easygoing, breezy and easy to like.

All in all, a very good performance with keywords being huge soundstage, on-point imaging, excellent dynamics and air, detail-oriented, soft and sweet coloration with quick decay. Just a bit more lushness and the sound will be perfect for me. At USD368 this ain't a bad deal at all.


----------



## domiji

Hello,

I am searching for a significant upgrade for my ALO Audio Reference 8 cable on my Solaris.

Does may anyone have a suggestion for a cable that is worth of swapping the ALO out?

I was looking at the Palace Series from CEMA electro accousti but I am not sure if this is really an upgrade.

Thanks a lot


----------



## domiji

ezekiel77 said:


> This is Chime by Electro Acousti, a 4-metal hybrid cable with gold, silver, OCC copper and palladium. Snake oil much? But after spending some time with it here are my thoughts on the SQ.
> 
> The most obvious change was the incredible sense of space and air. Spatial dimensions are increased in width and depth on a grand scale. Imaging is excellent due to the large space and dark background.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your review! 

Would you buy it again or would you choose another cable?

Which IEMs did you pair with the Palace cable?


----------



## ezekiel77

domiji said:


> Thank you for your review!
> 
> Would you buy it again or would you choose another cable?
> 
> Which IEMs did you pair with the Palace cable?


I tried with VE8, SE5U, Hidition Violet. Works great with warm IEMs for added dynamics and bigger stage. Some cables at this price point (or even more expensive) increase details and staging too, but the timbre is bright and grainy (eg EA Cleopatra) so the Chime is better in the timbre aspect.

And I love how the cable looks, thick with neat braids. No regrets buying at all. Electro Acousti has a lot of value buys too. The only thing is the Aliexpress sale page doesn't provide much details on the cable constituents, like AWG, Litz or not, percentage of each metal... They might be lost in translation.


----------



## domiji

ezekiel77 said:


> I tried with VE8, SE5U, Hidition Violet. Works great with warm IEMs for added dynamics and bigger stage. Some cables at this price point (or even more expensive) increase details and staging too, but the timbre is bright and grainy (eg EA Cleopatra) so the Chime is better in the timbre aspect.
> 
> And I love how the cable looks, thick with neat braids. No regrets buying at all. Electro Acousti has a lot of value buys too. The only thing is the Aliexpress sale page doesn't provide much details on the cable constituents, like AWG, Litz or not, percentage of each metal... They might be lost in translation.



I have their 175 cable (MS-Series) and i like it a lot. But i don't know if this cable might be an upgrade for my ALO Audio Reference 8


----------



## ezekiel77

domiji said:


> I have their 175 cable (MS-Series) and i like it a lot. But i don't know if this cable might be an upgrade for my ALO Audio Reference 8


ALO Ref 8 improves note detail and imaging. Background is also very dark. I like the cable, but eventually sold it because the ergonomics was horrible and the memory effect among the worst I've seen. The XS and Chime I consider upgrades. Sound quality is on par if not better than ALO Ref 8, but most importantly they are well-built with MUCH better ergonomics. Even the thick Chime I was surprised by the handling. It coils into circles neatly.


----------



## ezekiel77

By the way, being a high-end cable thread, you'd be remiss not to check out Eletech's new all-copper Socrates cable. Fantastic tone and detail retrieval. There's just this price barrier...

https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/08/review-eletech-cables-socrates/


----------



## mvvRAZ

ezekiel77 said:


> By the way, being a high-end cable thread, you'd be remiss not to check out Eletech's new all-copper Socrates cable. Fantastic tone and detail retrieval. There's just this price barrier...
> 
> https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/08/review-eletech-cables-socrates/


The Socrates is an exceptional cable and is actually at a pretty decent price point compared to a lot of the recent releases in the high end market. I'm absolutely loving mine


----------



## NickL33

How Socrates compares to 1960?


----------



## domiji

ezekiel77 said:


> ALO Ref 8 improves note detail and imaging. Background is also very dark. I like the cable, but eventually sold it because the ergonomics was horrible and the memory effect among the worst I've seen. The XS and Chime I consider upgrades. Sound quality is on par if not better than ALO Ref 8, but most importantly they are well-built with MUCH better ergonomics. Even the thick Chime I was surprised by the handling. It coils into circles neatly.



Thank you very much  
So it seems that i have to order one from the Chime Palace Series 🙃


----------



## ezekiel77

NickL33 said:


> How Socrates compares to 1960?


Based on memory, 1960s 4-wire has a wider and deeper soundstage, with a grander presentation. Both tones are equally good, with 1960s being less vocal-forward, and brighter treble. 1960s has better extension up top too.


----------



## proedros

ezekiel77 said:


> Based on memory, 1960s 4-wire has a wider and deeper soundstage, with a grander presentation. Both tones are equally good, with 1960s being less vocal-forward, and brighter treble. 1960s has better extension up top too.



judging by a)its price and b)its sonic qualities , i think it's best you compare it with the 1000$ 1960s 2-wire....

Cable looks good though , but i am set for good now with the 1960s 2wire.....


----------



## ezekiel77

proedros said:


> judging by a)its price and b)its sonic qualities , i think it's best you compare it with the 1000$ 1960s 2-wire....
> 
> Cable looks good though , but i am set for good now with the 1960s 2wire.....


Welp I wish I could, but I only ever heard the 4-wire.


----------



## Barra

*US Eletech Cable Tour - Taking participation requests now*
If any US HEADFIers are interested in hearing these wonderful cables for yourselves, on your own equipment, and in the comfort of your own home - feel free to join our US Eletech tour featuring their entire lineup including the new Socrates cable. Just click the link in my signature below and follow the instructions to join the tour. Check out the kickoff video I created where you can see how incredibly beautiful these cables really are. It is easy to see why they are so popular. It is also your chance to check out Eletech's new Socrates cable.


----------



## Zhang Enyuan

luminox audio luminox
The sound performance of the technology flagship product line is quite balanced


----------



## claud W

Any of you Moondrop Blessing 2 owners using something other than stock cable?


----------



## Animagus (Aug 28, 2020)

claud W said:


> Any of you Moondrop Blessing 2 owners using something other than stock cable?



Yup! Ego Audio's Beer and Tequila. I don't mind the stock cable as Blessing2 sounds quite good with it tbh but I do like cable rolling with Blessing2.


----------



## Sound Eq

ezekiel77 said:


> This is Chime by Electro Acousti, a 4-metal hybrid cable with gold, silver, OCC copper and palladium. Snake oil much? But after spending some time with it here are my thoughts on the SQ.
> 
> The most obvious change was the incredible sense of space and air. Spatial dimensions are increased in width and depth on a grand scale. Imaging is excellent due to the large space and dark background.
> 
> ...


interesting, if it added more body to the mids ( vocals ) i would be buying it, but u mention that section is not what he cable will improve on

i am look for all the great things u mentioned, but to add tone, weight, and recess the mids 

any suggestion


----------



## Deezel177

Hey, everyone! 'Just published my review of Eletech's Socrates on THL: A vivid, dynamic-sounding cable that brings midrange presence and sub-bass rumble without too much tonal colouration. The link is now live on Eletech's official thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ele...scussions-thread.919228/page-53#post-15834943






Cheers! 
​


----------



## noplsestar

Hi there, this is my try to review the new Palladium Series cable from Arctic Cables. These are my personal findings, so yours might vary of course. I am no reviewer, just a music lover. 

Also this is a headphone cable (for now), but the guys from Arctic Cables are working on IEM cables that will be launched soon, so keep an eye at their website if you are interested!! (and that's why I thought you guys might be interested in my findings about the Palladium cable from this US manufacturer, too).

Alrighty then, let's begin: I have bought 3 different Arctic Cables until today: Copper, Silver, Palladium. I sold the copper cable when I upgraded to the upocc silver (now its name is Signum, or Signum+), well and now it would be time to sell my Signum+ (except I won´t sell it, you never know when it comes in handy again, hehe) because I don’t think I will get back to it after listening to the Palladium cable (which is, more or less, the silver upocc cable with palladium plating). Not because the Signum+ is a bad cable, it isn’t. To tell the truth: it is an exceptional cable for its price! The Palladium cable just pairs better with my headphone, for my tastes, and I will tell you why:

Used equipment: Calyx M DAP (Romi Audio hardware modded) with Focal Stellia.

Those of you who are familiar with the Calyx M DAP will know that it is rather warm, lush, analogue sounding (the Romi Audio hardware mod gives it more resolution as well as more prominent mids). Now, also the Stellia, though highly capable in resolution and open sounding for a closed back, is also slightly north of neutral in the bass region when it comes to the frequency response. Now the Signum+ cable added (to the extension on both ends and many other positive things) another analogue flavor, which was great, but got me thinking that it might even be a better synergy with leaner headphones like Sennheiser´s HD800(S) or Focal Utopia etc. where you won´t necessarily need more air up top but rather more oomph down below. But I can´t confirm this, as I don’t have those headphones with me to test them. The same goes for DAP´s that are rather neutral/reference sounding per se where you´d want an analogue texture to give it a more natural feeling (like above, this is an assumption.) That doesn’t mean the Palladium cable prioritizes one spectrum of the frequency over another, it rather shows what´s there. If you´ve got a neutral source, it will stay neutral and SHOW it, make it quite palpable for you to hear; if the source is rather warmish, it won´t make it any warmer or leaner but reveal the nature of the source.

With three thoughts I would say the Palladium cable is TRANSPARENT, TRUE TO THE SOURCE, EFFORTLESS. That´s it. But let´s start at the beginning, with the bass!

BASS: First, when comparing the cable with the Signum+ I thought that it had a tiny bit less bass (in quantity), but after numerous switches I checked that I just heard the other frequencies better through which lead to the false impression that the bass was a bit quieter. Or it was because I hadn´t burned it in properly. After 200 hours+ I can confirm that when switching between the two cables, the Palladium has even a tad more subbass, which probably comes down to better low end extension. In addition the bass texture is also a notch better, so also the bass quality overall wins.

MIDS: Fluently. Transparent. It just flows effortlessly. Everything is completely present, clear and in addition the vocals, to me, sound a tad fuller, which I happen to like very much!

HIGHS: Extension, extension, extension. It´s not that the highs are elevated, at least not that I would hear it that way, it´s more like they can shine through better (true to the source) and therefore also the imaging, the soundstage as well as the overall resolution profits by a tiny margin. It is a slightly more holographic soundscape than before. With the Signum+ I had the feeling that there is more depth (compared to their copper cable), now there seems to be a bigger room in addition to that. There is absolutely nothing piercing, at least not with the Stellia. This is remarkable.

It´s not that everything I wrote above means that this cable is like 50% “better” (for me) than the Signum+, it´s more like 2%. BUT as you all know, alas diminishing returns kicks in, as always.

For me, I have found my dream DAP and headphone, this cable is the last bit that I wanted/needed for my audio nirvana. It is really expensive BUT at the same time very good value for money when you look at other cable manufacturers, where the silver cables are priced even higher than the Palladium plated silver cable of Arctic Cables. Also please don´t forget: Lifelong warranty, also if you choose to sell it to someone else, he has the full warranty. You can always send it in for plug changing, you only have to pay for the shipping and the new plug and not for the labor itself. Then on top of all that, 30 days from buying the Palladium cable you can send it back and get all your money back if it isn´t what you were searching for. If I´m not mistaken, all of that is something no other cable company can compete with.

This is a keeper. I won´t sell it.

And I completely forgot: This cable looks absolutely stunning!! As does their Signum+ 

They are impeccable woven and the plugs (in my case Oyaide) pair wonderfully with the cable. I also really like the small red dot on the plug for the right side of the headphone. I also dig that the heatshrink doesn´t go over the plugs. This also was my wish when I pulled the trigger. As always, no microphonics whatsoever, at least I don´t hear any that would bother me. The cable is absolutely pliable, as all the other cables I had from them.

What else? The shipping to Europe was a horror (thank you Corona). If you live in the US, I hear that there is no problem with the USPS shipping. If you live somewhere else, well, if you have 2 months time then it isn´t a problem  BUT if you want your cable A BIT EARLIER, I think you can always talk to Roy and tell him to ship it with FedEx, UPS etc. Of course that means you have to pay another 100 dollars for the shipping, but I would have done it if I had known that it takes THAT long! It´s not Arctic Cables fault, but I thought you should know and decide for yourself.

Oh, and Roy was so great in answering all my questions. I wrote many mails to him (as I was the first, or one of the first buyers of this new cable) and wanted to know more about everything. Roy and Val are very patient and will get back to you, just give them 1 to 3 days to answer, you know, they probably sometimes have more important things to do, such as soldering and braiding beautifully made cables 

So just to be clear, if you want the best value (and sound quality) for money, go straight to the Signum Series, if you have enough spare money and exactly know what you want and don´t care paying 1.6 k for a 1,6% sound improvement and also have a source you absolutely love as well as a headphone, then go get it, listen to the Palladium Series and lean back, close your eyes and listen beyond. Haha, that sounds like it would come from a commercial textwriter. Words are nothing, music is everything. Oops, again. Well, I better stop now, here comes the eyecandy 

Edit: I have to admit, I really thought about sending back the cable because the improvement over the Signum is so very very small, but since I don´t need the money right now, I will keep both. Take everything above with a big grain of salt please. Also placebo kicks in and BIAS and the expectation etc. etc. BUT what I can tell is that I am sure that my honeymoon time with the cable is over now after many weeks of listening and comparing and still I hear the difference between the Signum and the Palladium cable which tells me that I am not completely deaf (I was a drummer in my former life, so that you know) and which also tells me that the Palladium cable will definitely stay attached to the Stellia … well, until there is a new Stellia 2.0 on the market.

I did try to make the comparison as good as possible in just changing the cables and letting the headphone on my head all the time so that the position was the same.

The Palladium cable you see here happens to be mine: http://arcticcables.com/Catalog.asp?Page=NewShowProd.asp&PRodID=1791976

Self made pics are attached below. Have fun


----------



## BillTranscend

From my personal impression of Titian-Au is not quite the same as others. I am using the Titian on my A18t, which I want to get richness resolution. However, I am a fan of Hardcore, the titian will decreasing the high frequency of the song, and does well on vocal songs, it becomes warmer and thicker.


----------



## IgeNeLL (Sep 15, 2020)

My cable has arrived after longtime shipping.
I unbox double duet first, and it is as I expect where my IEMS is internal wire by Crystal cable(PEF21) then the synergy is like no other.
Sound stage, detail, instrumental separation is just sound right. You can hear every  touch, or swing as vibration from string or cello body; fluent and effortless, the clarity and detail are little behind the dream duet in top and bottom end.


----------



## RPKwan

Wyville said:


> The SilverFi R5 is a huge cable and not one you will easily use out and about. I tried a few SilverFi cables and think it is important to understand those not the easiest to live with. A couple of friends of mine really love them, but for me it was impossible to live with the bigger ones like the R5.


Did you get to test it somewhere before buying? It's obviously a fairly pricy purchase - is ordering directly from them the only way to get one? Thanks.


----------



## RPKwan

mvvRAZ said:


> Interesting, so how much do Brimar cables actually go for? They're certainly very fancy looking, and I wouldn't mind getting one down the line if they're in line with the rest of the market


Tried a few yesterday and they were all very nice with very distinct characteristics.


----------



## Wyville

RPKwan said:


> Did you get to test it somewhere before buying? It's obviously a fairly pricy purchase - is ordering directly from them the only way to get one? Thanks.


I never owned the R5, this was a loaner from a friend. As far as I am aware you can only order directly from SilverFi because the earhooks need to be custom made to optimally fit around your ears. You can contact them here if you want, although I am not sure how active Sezai still is: @saktanbers


----------



## RPKwan

Wyville said:


> I never owned the R5, this was a loaner from a friend. As far as I am aware you can only order directly from SilverFi because the earhooks need to be custom made to optimally fit around your ears. You can contact them here if you want, although I am not sure how active Sezai still is: @saktanbers


Thanks so much for your prompt response. Appreciate it.


----------



## IgeNeLL

RPKwan said:


> Tried a few yesterday and they were all very nice with very distinct characteristics.


Which material is it? I guess gold plated cooper


----------



## RPKwan

IgeNeLL said:


> Which material is it? I guess gold plated cooper


I tried 4 different ones. All of them had some % of gold. The one that stood out to me and my tastes was the tri-colured one with copper, silver and gold. Everything was balanced, musical and basically if you take all of the best characteristics of those materials and blend them naturally, that is what it sounded like.


----------



## RPKwan

Wyville said:


> The SilverFi R5 is a huge cable and not one you will easily use out and about. I tried a few SilverFi cables and think it is important to understand those not the easiest to live with. A couple of friends of mine really love them, but for me it was impossible to live with the bigger ones like the R5.


The fit has me intrigued - I believe you though since I have a custom cable made with the same braid by VE Clan. Can you tell me what IEM is in the pic? Looks like Kumitate Lab The Trio?


----------



## RPKwan

buonassi said:


> LoL - I was witness to your written flogging.  It was brutal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does anyone have any tricks to soften them up again? I have an EA Excalibur cable that looks a bit worse for wear...


----------



## Wyville

RPKwan said:


> The fit has me intrigued - I believe you though since I have a custom cable made with the same braid by VE Clan. Can you tell me what IEM is in the pic? Looks like Kumitate Lab The Trio?


The IEMs in the picture are the Rhapsodio Eden.


----------



## buonassi

RPKwan said:


> Does anyone have any tricks to soften them up again? I have an EA Excalibur cable that looks a bit worse for wear...



I was once advised by PlusSound via facebook messenger chat to try using a hair dryer to soften up the sheathing.  Be careful to not heat it so much that the silver/gold plating over the copper melts. They were specific about this.

It worked great, that is, until the sheathing cooled down again and reverted to stiff once again.

Unfortunately, the plasticizers present in the sheathing can't be reconstituted.  Once it's stiff, it's been chemically altered and really nothing can restore it to how it functioned when new.  

Skin oils (depending on your body chemsitry) can be very corosive.  I have sunglasses last me about a year before the paint that touches my cheeks is dissolved!

update: triton's 24.5 awg litz has stood the test of time.  It is just as soft as the day I got it.  The insulation is different than EA cables certainly.  It's a bit 'springy' / 'rubbery' but very soft, pliable, and drapes nicely.


----------



## RPKwan

buonassi said:


> I was once advised by PlusSound via facebook messenger chat to try using a hair dryer to soften up the sheathing.  Be careful to not heat it so much that the silver/gold plating over the copper melts. They were specific about this.
> 
> It worked great, that is, until the sheathing cooled down again and reverted to stiff once again.
> 
> ...


That's a great explanation, I guess the only solution is buying more cables...😂


----------



## RPKwan

kubig123 said:


> I got one through byuee, it’s quite microphonic and I didn’t spend too much time with it, I definitely should spend more time testing it at home. I just have to find the time.
> 
> construction wise is nicely built, extremely light and of course extremely original with all the wires in different colors.


Would love to hear (pun intended) more about Rosenkranz cables. Some people don't accept the look but as long as it delivers I don't mind. Though microphonics is an issue... I have a Cardas cable that sounds incredible but stiff as a coat hanger.


----------



## RPKwan

IgeNeLL said:


> The ultimate ?


What was your impression? I will have a chance to test today.


----------



## IgeNeLL

RPKwan said:


> What was your impression? I will have a chance to test today.


Let share your impression.

I have Grand Master 8x:
- Good Contrast, impact, added little warm, lack a little airy on top end, fast/thunderous transient response (kind of a bit solid in lower treble).
- I have heard that the deep state is outperform mine but not heard yet.


----------



## Dsnuts (Sep 18, 2020)

New flagship Penon cable the TOTEM. Will let you all know how this is once I get it.


----------



## domiji

Dsnuts said:


> New flagship Penon cable the TOTEM. Will let you all know how this is once I get it.



Any price information about this? Looks very nice!


----------



## Skullar

The colour is actually very nice but the terminations look like 18 buck aliexpress crap. And those exposed plastic sleeves just scream cheap-fi.


----------



## Limexx

Anyone know where to get short adapters for fitear to 2pin?


----------



## Dsnuts

domiji said:


> Any price information about this? Looks very nice!



They are being sold right now for $799. Penon flagship cable. I will let you guys know how this one turned out.


----------



## domiji

799? Holy moly that is a lot of money.

They sell some really good bang for the buck cables but this is a statement.


----------



## Dsnuts

Look at the materials there. This cable is going for high end and nothing else. These will be comparable to the best cables in the market. Considering higher end cables costing several grand. Value here is relative. We will see what this cable is about.


----------



## domiji

I totally understand. I just saying that it is a lot of money compared to their other cables. 

When it comes down to materials you can get cheaper palladium cables from CEMA as well.

But I don't know how it sounds and I don't want to make it bad. Sorry for that.


----------



## Sound Eq (Sep 19, 2020)

I am really struggling in which cable to buy for my iems, bought few cables and the silver cable from a company I will not mention it stiffened and is turning black, it really sucks that I pay for an after market cable, and then after few months it becomes stiff and turns green or black, also it really sucks not knowing which cables are a good match as where I live I can not audition cables at all, also i do not want to spend over 500 usd for a cable unless its a really a cable that will offer something notice in improvement, if i can buy it used it will be better

I need 2.5 mm balanced cable, that adds body to the mids of course not at expense of bass or making and iem splashy in the highs, so i am all after tonality, body and texture of sound, not looking to tame bass, mids or highs or getting a cable that is analytical

-solaris 2020
-noble khan
-noble sultan--- soon to be purchased
- campfire ara
- jhaudio lola

if anyone has a good advice please help


----------



## IgeNeLL (Sep 19, 2020)

Sound Eq said:


> I am really struggling in which cable to buy for my iems, bought few cables and the silver cable from a company I will not mention it stiffened and is turning black, it really sucks that I pay for an after market cable, and then after few months it becomes stiff and turns green or black, also it really sucks not knowing which cables are a good match as where I live I can not audition cables at all, also i do not want to spend over 500 usd for a cable unless its a really a cable that will offer something notice in improvement, if i can buy it used it will be better
> 
> I need 2.5 mm balanced cable, that adds body to the mids of course not at expense of bass or making and iem splashy in the highs, so i am all after tonality, body and texture of sound, not looking to tame bass, mids or highs or getting a cable that is analytical
> 
> ...


First of all
- Silver cable normally cannot turn green. Silver oxidization will turn color to be gray.
- Cooper oxidization will show green.

For silver cable, it is no deny that it will deteorate over time, turn grey unless they use Liszt to cover the surface. Other method can be use is cover the surface by planting gold, palladium, ...

For 500$ budget, I think you can find some proper pure silver cable.

In the picture, my Brimar Grand Master is more than 2 years old, the color has turn to some what grey color although the material is Gold Plated Silver/Gold.

For cable, despite of material, the quality of conductor is more important.


----------



## RPKwan

Sound Eq said:


> I am really struggling in which cable to buy for my iems, bought few cables and the silver cable from a company I will not mention it stiffened and is turning black, it really sucks that I pay for an after market cable, and then after few months it becomes stiff and turns green or black, also it really sucks not knowing which cables are a good match as where I live I can not audition cables at all, also i do not want to spend over 500 usd for a cable unless its a really a cable that will offer something notice in improvement, if i can buy it used it will be better
> 
> I need 2.5 mm balanced cable, that adds body to the mids of course not at expense of bass or making and iem splashy in the highs, so i am all after tonality, body and texture of sound, not looking to tame bass, mids or highs or getting a cable that is analytical
> 
> ...


I've been on a bit of a run as of late testing many, many high-end cables and custom cables - to not test before buying is not really advisable. I know it doesn't help since you can't audition but the chemistry between cables and IEMs is so subjective - especially when they start getting to be really expensive.

That being said, there is an argument as to why it's not worth spending as much on a cable as you would on a DAP or IEM. I'm starting to believe that if it's the part of the chain that gets you the sound you want then the value is all equal, not taking the resell value into account.


----------



## IgeNeLL

RPKwan said:


> I've been on a bit of a run as of late testing many, many high-end cables and custom cables - to not test before buying is not really advisable. I know it doesn't help since you can't audition but the chemistry between cables and IEMs is so subjective - especially when they start getting to be really expensive.
> 
> That being said, there is an argument as to why it's not worth spending as much on a cable as you would on a DAP or IEM. I'm starting to believe that if it's the part of the chain that gets you the sound you want then the value is all equal, not taking the resell value into account.


This market sometimes go crazy in price, however, after long and intensive experience I think that:
- The safe budget is 1000-1500 where you can get a 8x good cable or 4x higher level of material.
- I have some friend, they have to admit that, upgrading cable sometimes is more effective than upgrading DAP or iems.
- Cable is sensitive, one can believe or not but it does act like a filter between the source and the transducer which can alter the whole system response.


----------



## ctop

RPKwan said:


> I've been on a bit of a run as of late testing many, many high-end cables and custom cables - to not test before buying is not really advisable. I know it doesn't help since you can't audition but the chemistry between cables and IEMs is so subjective - especially when they start getting to be really expensive.
> 
> That being said, there is an argument as to why it's not worth spending as much on a cable as you would on a DAP or IEM. I'm starting to believe that if it's the part of the chain that gets you the sound you want then the value is all equal, not taking the resell value into account.


I agree with you. It's discouraging sometimes to spend so much in a cable specially if the price is almost as much as an iem or dap. But, the way I see it...cables are an investment which is kept in our arsenal for the next future iems and daps which we change or upgrade faster.


----------



## RPKwan

IgeNeLL said:


> This market sometimes go crazy in price, however, after long and intensive experience I think that:
> - The safe budget is 1000-1500 where you can get a 8x good cable or 4x higher level of material.
> - I have some friend, they have to admit that, upgrading cable sometimes is more effective than upgrading DAP or iems.
> - Cable is sensitive, one can believe or not but it does act like a filter between the source and the transducer which can alter the whole system response.


I've been testing this morning. I have a few lower-tier IEMs ie. Radius TWF41, JVC FD-01 and Sony EX1000 and EX800ST w/adapters. I used a Cardas cable 3.5mm that I've had for ages and tried with all my different DAPs and can say the difference between the Cardas and stock cable is significant. The DAPs all gave a different signature where I think the N8 (tube mode) probably sounded the fullest and most spacious for all 3. Now the hunt begins for another cable that is 4.4mm to take them to another level.


----------



## RPKwan

ctop said:


> I agree with you. It's discouraging sometimes to spend so much in a cable specially if the price is almost as much as an iem or dap. But, the way I see it...cables are an investment which is kept in our arsenal for the next future iems and daps which we change or upgrade faster.


I'm honestly starting to believe that. I've bought and sold many IEMs, DAPs but much less cables. With DAPs being electronic there is always a risk in firmware or hardware failure, whereas there is less risky with a cable. At the end of the day we are constantly looking for a "sound" so why would a cable be less important than anything else in the chain if we can hear a perceptible difference?


----------



## ctop

Exactly...your only as good as your weakest link. I just started with the iem dap hobby only a few months back but, I've been a long time home 2 channel stereo guy and I've always felt that cables are really critical in the chain. In fact my home speaker cable alone costs much more than my entire head-fi setup.


----------



## RPKwan

ctop said:


> Exactly...your only as good as your weakest link. I just started with the iem dap hobby only a few months back but, I've been a long time home 2 channel stereo guy and I've always felt that cables are really critical in the chain. In fact my home speaker cable alone costs much more than my entire head-fi setup.


----------



## IgeNeLL

RPKwan said:


> I've been testing this morning. I have a few lower-tier IEMs ie. Radius TWF41, JVC FD-01 and Sony EX1000 and EX800ST w/adapters. I used a Cardas cable 3.5mm that I've had for ages and tried with all my different DAPs and can say the difference between the Cardas and stock cable is significant. The DAPs all gave a different signature where I think the N8 (tube mode) probably sounded the fullest and most spacious for all 3. Now the hunt begins for another cable that is 4.4mm to take them to another level.


Yes I miss to remark that the precondition is that you have good iems that can reflect the changes of cable quality.
The stock cable is not the scope of comparison because it is too bad, sometimes, stock cable can damage, give wrong impression about the iems.

Due to bottle concept, we have three component in the system: DAP, CABLE, IEMS. The total output of the system is the worse(not the best) of three component. Then when upgrading, upgrading the worst component give the most improvement.


----------



## Dsnuts

Sound Eq said:


> I am really struggling in which cable to buy for my iems, bought few cables and the silver cable from a company I will not mention it stiffened and is turning black, it really sucks that I pay for an after market cable, and then after few months it becomes stiff and turns green or black, also it really sucks not knowing which cables are a good match as where I live I can not audition cables at all, also i do not want to spend over 500 usd for a cable unless its a really a cable that will offer something notice in improvement, if i can buy it used it will be better
> 
> I need 2.5 mm balanced cable, that adds body to the mids of course not at expense of bass or making and iem splashy in the highs, so i am all after tonality, body and texture of sound, not looking to tame bass, mids or highs or getting a cable that is analytical
> 
> ...



Go UPOCC cable or higher grade of copper instead of silver. I did reviews for just about every Penon and ISN cable not to mention own too many aftermarket chi fi cables to count and just from my own experience it looks like you need a higher grade of copper vs silver which will lean more toward analytical. 

Several really nice UPOCC cables. CEMA electro acousti sells an 8 core UPOCC cable that is very well regarded. UPOCC is different from OCC or alloy copper. Sound design is retained but it is like how you described what your looking for.  Best of all you dont have to spend much to find out I think the Electro Acousti cable cost around $165.


----------



## proedros

IgeNeLL said:


> Yes I miss to remark that the precondition is that you have good iems that can reflect the changes of cable quality.
> The stock cable is not the scope of comparison because it is too bad, sometimes, stock cable can damage, give wrong impression about the iems.
> 
> *Due to bottle concept, we have three component in the system: DAP, CABLE, IEMS. The total output of the system is the worse(not the best) of three component. Then when upgrading, upgrading the worst component give the most improvement.*



this.

even though i had a very good / TOTL ciem+dap combo (zeus XR+sony wm1a) , i felt that the cable was not up to par (a 500$ Lionheart , good but not great) and i knew that i had to pair my Zeus XR with the 1000$ 1960s 2wire (which people were praising their synergy)

when i finally managed to buy this specific cable , i knew that i had reached the end for this particular combo and I could say ''yeah i can stop upgrading'' (until i win a lottery that is) to myself 

now i am fine and content with what i have.

no point having a 10/10 cable with a 6/10 dap or a 6/10 iem, or having a 9/10 iem with  6/10 dap or a 6/10 cable

try to keep a balance between those 3 components.


----------



## RPKwan

proedros said:


> this.
> 
> even though i had a very good / TOTL ciem+dap combo (zeus XR+sony wm1a) , i felt that the cable was not up to par (a 500$ Lionheart , good but not great) and i knew that i had to pair my Zeus XR with the 1000$ 1960s 2wire (which people were praising their synergy)
> 
> ...


Same as me with the Legend X. I pushed it to the max (in my opinion) with the 1960s 4-wired, N8, P6 and R2R.  I then tried the Erlkonig and it was obvious my taste changed. I wasn't chasing the same sound anymore. Now I know the Erlkonig can scale after trying different DAPs with amps and cables. It's going to be a fun ( and expensive) journey again. Side note, I've tried the Odin and although it's fantastic and it's within my reach I rather invest in making the Erlkonig closer to what I think it can achieve.


----------



## aaf evo

RPKwan said:


> Same as me with the Legend X. I pushed it to the max (in my opinion) with the 1960s 4-wired, N8, P6 and R2R.  I then tried the Erlkonig and it was obvious my taste changed. I wasn't chasing the same sound anymore. Now I know the Erlkonig can scale after trying different DAPs with amps and cables. It's going to be a fun ( and expensive) journey again. Side note, I've tried the Odin and although it's fantastic and it's within my reach I rather invest in making the Erlkonig closer to what I think it can achieve.



Erlkonig + DX220 Max is a ridiculously good pairing, imo.


----------



## RPKwan

aaf evo said:


> Erlkonig + DX220 Max is a ridiculously good pairing, imo.


I've gotta try... The 2nd hand prices for the DX220 Max are reasonable... But I'm eyeing a very specific cable...


----------



## aaf evo

RPKwan said:


> I've gotta try... The 2nd hand prices for the DX220 Max are reasonable... But I'm eyeing a very specific cable...



Which one? I actually love the tonality of the Erlkonig with the LE cable, it just sounds so “right” to my ears that I’ve had zero desire to swap it out.


----------



## RPKwan

aaf evo said:


> Which one? I actually love the tonality of the Erlkonig with the LE cable, it just sounds so “right” to my ears that I’ve had zero desire to swap it out.


I was just going to ask you what cable you're using? I have the non-LE Erlkonig so have tried a few. The 1960s 4-wired, a custom 19AWG silver-toned copper one, the EA Excalibur and the stock. I'm eyeing the PW Orpheus. Same as how you feel with the LE cable, it just sounds right - even with my other IEMS.


----------



## aaf evo

RPKwan said:


> I was just going to ask you what cable you're using? I have the non-LE Erlkonig so have tried a few. The 1960s 4-wired, a custom 19AWG silver-toned copper one, the EA Excalibur and the stock. I'm eyeing the PW Orpheus. Same as how you feel with the LE cable, it just sounds right - even with my other IEMS.



Is the Orpheus that crazy new double 1950s type cable?


----------



## normie610

RPKwan said:


> I was just going to ask you what cable you're using? I have the non-LE Erlkonig so have tried a few. The 1960s 4-wired, a custom 19AWG silver-toned copper one, the EA Excalibur and the stock. I'm eyeing the PW Orpheus. Same as how you feel with the LE cable, it just sounds right - even with my other IEMS.



Do you feel that the stock cable still holds the edge?


----------



## RPKwan

normie610 said:


> Do you feel that the stock cable still holds the edge?


It's a great cable but like most TOTL IEMs there is almost always room to upscale. Even with the Odin and the Stormbreaker cable, a 1960s 4-wire would be even better but EE would not include it since it's double the price of the 2-wire.


----------



## Damz87

RPKwan said:


> It's a great cable but like most TOTL IEMs there is almost always room to upscale. Even with the Odin and the Stormbreaker cable, a 1960s 4-wire would be even better but EE would not include it since it's double the price of the 2-wire.



Can’t say I particularly like the 4-wire 1960s with Odin. I felt the 2-wire stormbreaker sounds better. The 4-wire gave the upper mids a strange tonality.

Just pulled the trigger on a 1950s 4-wire so I’ll give that a go and report back.


----------



## RPKwan

Damz87 said:


> Can’t say I particularly like the 4-wire 1960s with Odin. I felt the 2-wire stormbreaker sounds better. The 4-wire gave the upper mids a strange tonality.
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on a 1950s 4-wire so I’ll give that a go and report back.


Very curious to know how the 1950s 4-wire sounds since it's meant to bring even more clarity, power and details over the 1960s.


----------



## Damz87

RPKwan said:


> Very curious to know how the 1950s 4-wire sounds since it's meant to bring even more clarity, power and details over the 1960s.



Me too  will let you know when it’s in hand


----------



## proedros

1950s must be amazing , PW cables are really great


----------



## IgeNeLL

`


RPKwan said:


> I was just going to ask you what cable you're using? I have the non-LE Erlkonig so have tried a few. The 1960s 4-wired, a custom 19AWG silver-toned copper one, the EA Excalibur and the stock. I'm eyeing the PW Orpheus. Same as how you feel with the LE cable, it just sounds right - even with my other IEMS.


PW 1960 meterial based on cardas. 
For my impression, it is too thick sounding altered by the cable.
Almost cooper cable smooth the transient and leading edge of the note.
In case of cable, good silver will beat the same level of cooper, however, good silver is not popular in the market..


----------



## RPKwan

IgeNeLL said:


> `
> 
> PW 1960 meterial based on cardas.
> For my impression, it is too thick sounding altered by the cable.
> ...


Yes, I like the Cardas copper signature so it's perfect for me. Depends on what kind of music you listen to and what you look for I guess. I've listened to silver cables that I've liked and some not so much. The fun is in the journey.


----------



## domiji

Has anyone expierence with the new Tianwaitian series from CEMA?

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005001446578292.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.51673c00hQu6T9&mp=1


----------



## mangothehuman

Does anyone know if SGAudiohive is still in business? My cable broke after less than a year, so I sent it back for repairs. The tracking shows it was received back in early August, but I've heard nothing and can't get a hold of them?


----------



## choisan

sincerely want to know if anyone tried to use duelund wires to make iem cable?


----------



## Burakk

Hi Fellas, I'm selling my beauty.. Brise Audio SRT7-Ref. It might be interesting for those who follow thread.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Does any one know what cable model of labkable this is?
My friend is selling it but he forgot the model.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Very interesting cable. Planning to do something special


----------



## saktanbers

Wyville said:


> I never owned the R5, this was a loaner from a friend. As far as I am aware you can only order directly from SilverFi because the earhooks need to be custom made to optimally fit around your ears. You can contact them here if you want, although I am not sure how active Sezai still is: @saktanbers


Hi, SilverFi is alive and well busy crafting cables. You can reach me at 
saktanbers@gmail.com


----------



## saktanbers

saktanbers said:


> Hi, SilverFi is alive and well busy crafting cables. You can reach me at
> saktanbers@gmail.com


SilverFi currently launched Black Reference Series. Now we offer R4 Black and R5 Black iem upgrade cables.
First R4 Black will go to California in a month.


----------



## saktanbers

saktanbers said:


> SilverFi currently launched Black Reference Series. Now we offer R4 Black and R5 Black iem upgrade cables.
> First R4 Black will go to California in a month.


With Black Series you will have more of everything found in R4 White  and R5 White. Continue to watch SilverFi at:
silverfiblogspot.com


----------



## saktanbers

saktanbers said:


> SilverFi currently launched Black Reference Series. Now we offer R4 Black and R5 Black iem upgrade cables.
> First R4 Black will go to California in a month.


----------



## saktanbers

saktanbers said:


> SilverFi currently launched Black Reference Series. Now we offer R4 Black and R5 Black iem upgrade cables.
> First R4 Black will go to California in a month.


----------



## saktanbers




----------



## saktanbers

Black sleeves for Black IEM Series


----------



## Wyville

saktanbers said:


> Black sleeves for Black IEM Series


Look forward to see how it will turn out.


----------



## saktanbers

Wyville said:


> Look forward to see how it will turn out.


Will post pics when ready


----------



## chezzer

Has anyone had a listen to the Crescent moon cable from cosmic cables, Crescent moon | Cosmic Cables (cosmic-cables.co.uk)  I'm thinking of biting the bullet in their 10% sale but would like a few more opinions
other than the ones here  (1) Cosmic Cables - Impressions and Discussion Thread | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org (head-fi.org) 

Thanks in advance


----------



## saktanbers

saktanbers said:


> Will post pics when ready


For our Black Friday oppurtunities effective till 31st December 2020, write us or check our facebook page at SilverFiCable.


----------



## NeLey169 (Nov 25, 2020)




----------



## IgeNeLL

ayang02 said:


> I wish more silver cables utilize mono-crystal silver, especially the type of mono-crystal silver Crystal Cable uses for their Dream Duet. The dream duet is truly a game changer; I think I've finally found a cable that (at least feels like) unleashes the full potential of my IEMs.
> 
> This is not your typical bright/harsh silver cable. I know not all silver cables are harsh, but as far as I know, different cable makers use different geometries to try to get away from making their silver cables sound harsh. Some even add a hint of gold in their silver wires in attempt to hide that harshness. To me it seems the root cause of this harshness is the quality of the silver wires being used and mono-crystal silver wires as demonstrated by the dream duet seems like a great solution.
> 
> Here's my wish for 2019: more mono-crystal silver cables please!


Dream duet is exceptionally different, showing miles away from normal duet series. After using Dream Duet, I have asked them for 8x configuration but they refuse at the moment. Dream Duet makes all other brands' silver cables sound boring, amazing on how a very thin cable can make difference.
I'm going to re-terminate Siltech Duchess Crown to test the sound signature between them haha.


----------



## ayang02 (Nov 25, 2020)

IgeNeLL said:


> Dream duet is exceptionally different, showing miles away from normal duet series. After using Dream Duet, I have asked them for 8x configuration but they refuse at the moment. Dream Duet makes all other brands' silver cables sound boring, amazing on how a very thin cable can make difference.
> I'm going to re-terminate Siltech Duchess Crown to test the sound signature between them haha.



Yeah, I think the 8-wire version didn't offer much improvement, that's why they don't do it. I have seen pictures of the 8-wire "Special Dream Duet" a long time ago, configured for headphones I think. That seemed like a limited production run and Crystal Cable has since said they won't do it anymore.

It also seems like we are long due for a new IEM cable from Crystal Cable (now Crystal Connect), hope that happens soon.


----------



## saktanbers

IgeNeLL said:


> Dream duet is exceptionally different, showing miles away from normal duet series. After using Dream Duet, I have asked them for 8x configuration but they refuse at the moment. Dream Duet makes all other brands' silver cables sound boring, amazing on how a very thin cable can make difference.
> I'm going to re-terminate Siltech Duchess Crown to test the sound signature between them haha.


To design iem type silver cable there are more important  factors than mono crystal. Number and Diameter of the wire, combination of diameters, choice of sleeves,  selection of jacks and 2 pin connectors, type of solder to be used, etc.


----------



## IgeNeLL

ayang02 said:


> Yeah, I think the 8-wire version didn't offer much improvement, that's why they don't do it. I have seen pictures of the 8-wire "Special Dream Duet" a long time ago, configured for headphones I think. That seemed like a limited production run and Crystal Cable has since said they won't do it anymore.
> 
> It also seems like we are long due for a new IEM cable from Crystal Cable (now Crystal Connect), hope that happens soon.


I feel that they are too extremely confident about the quality of the cable. I have to ask 2nd time.
When using Crystal cable you will feel that the heavy size is not the matter because it surpasses other heavy AWG. But for one quality of conductor, more is still better in terms of power transfer and handling large dynamic track like symphony whereas multiple of instrumental, multiple group sound at one time.
I have a double duet too. Double Duet cannot achieve the quality of tone, timbre, a transient of double duet however for 8 wire, they are still better at space rendering of low frequency instrumental. However, the clean, hardness, and feeling of physical attack is still better on Dream Duet. That while I dream of more heavy gauss product line of dream duet because if you look at the speaker system, Dream Line Plus, Absolute Dream and Ultimate Dream use 2, 4 and 6 wire on each channel respectively.


----------



## IgeNeLL

saktanbers said:


> To design iem type silver cable there are more important  factors than mono crystal. Number and Diameter of the wire, a combination of diameters, choice of sleeves,  selection of jacks and 2 pin connectors, type of solder to be used, etc.


That is the reason why the portable cable word is messy like that. All prioritize other aspects more than the core value of a cable: the quality of the conductor.
I have experience in Nordost, Siltech, Crystal Cable, Shunyata, WireWorld, ... and my journey come to the conclusion that the quality of the cable is the first thing has to achieve.

You will be shocked as, despite a silly-looking thin appearance, it provides the ultimate ability to resolve detail and timber/harmonics structure at the level that other heavy AWG of other brands cannot achieve.

You can debate on monocrystal can sound normal but.

Listen to Dream Duet or Siltech Duchess Crown, it is totally different.

For your debate, I think and firmly believe that, Crystal do at their best to choose : combination of diameters, choice of sleeves,  selection of jacks and 2 pin connectors, type of solder.

I have made a cable for IEM from Nordost Odin2 interconnect cable, it is different stories then.


----------



## saktanbers

IgeNeLL said:


> That is the reason why the portable cable word is messy like that. All prioritize other aspects more than the core value of a cable: the quality of the conductor.
> I have experience in Nordost, Siltech, Crystal Cable, Shunyata, WireWorld, ... and my journey come to the conclusion that the quality of the cable is the first thing has to achieve.
> 
> You will be shocked as, despite a silly-looking thin appearance, it provides the ultimate ability to resolve detail and timber/harmonics structure at the level that other heavy AWG of other brands cannot achieve.
> ...


Have not listened to crystals, so i cant comment on it. I have respect for manufacturers who produces their conductors and dont use oem cables.


----------



## IgeNeLL

saktanbers said:


> Have not listened to crystals, so i cant comment on it. I have respect for manufacturers who produces their conductors and dont use oem cables.


Yes. They are few cable brand that control the qualites from producing their own conductor.

If you have chance to listen, i'm sure about the supprising.


----------



## choisan

IgeNeLL said:


> Yes. They are few cable brand that control the qualites from producing their own conductor.
> 
> If you have chance to listen, i'm sure about the supprising.


agreed, crystal cable is one of the few existing iem cable manufacturer who makes/produce its material. a real premium hifi cable factory.


----------



## choisan

the owner is a alchemist, specialize in silver


----------



## Deezel177 (Nov 29, 2020)

Hey, everyone. I just published my review of PW Audio's Monile over on THL. It's a great cable if you wanna inject some presence, musicality and bite to your IEMs, as long as you don't mind a more intimate soundstage. Plus, the cable's currently a part of MusicTeck's Black Friday Sale. So, if it does sound like the cable for you, then now's as good a time as any to give it a go. As always, I hope you enjoy. Cheers! 

*PW Audio Monile: Colour Me Bold - An In-Ear Monitor Review*


----------



## audionewbi

*Zephone impression:*

I got in contact with Zephone over 8 years ago when I wanted to buy a case for my Etymotics ER4S. That was many years ago. Thanks to the age of online networking, I managed to get in contact with Zephone again. I wanted to buy their Silver cable, anyway one thing led to another and now I have the following cables to review.

For the record, I don't buy any of them, I didn't ask for all this to be sent. I think they must have come across my emails from many years ago and felt bad for me and decided to let me test this.

I basically want a cable to pair with my simphobio VR1. 

Testing begins


----------



## justsomesonyfan

anyone here has experience with both palladium plated silver cable and OCC silver cable? i have the option to get either a pps one, an occ one, or a mix of half n half.

looking mainly for soundstage and technicalities.


----------



## IgeNeLL

justsomesonyfan said:


> anyone here has experience with both palladium plated silver cable and OCC silver cable? i have the option to get either a pps one, an occ one, or a mix of half n half.
> 
> looking mainly for soundstage and technicalities.


My advice, don't mix.
Going for one material, if 2 cable with different material go parallel, there might be Reverberation Effect due to different speed of electron propagation.
Then you should compare with cable from OCC Silver or palladium plated silver


----------



## MuhVNYP (Dec 23, 2020)

IgeNeLL said:


> My advice, don't mix.
> Going for one material, if 2 cable with different material go parallel, there might be Reverberation Effect due to different speed of electron propagation.
> Then you should compare with cable from OCC Silver or palladium plated silver


i didnt know exactly if this is fully from crystal cable decision, but crystal cable do have different material in one cable, the one i mentioned was in collaboration with Astell kern, silver-gold alloy then use silver plated copper as shield.


----------



## IgeNeLL

MuhVNYP said:


> i didnt know exactly if this is fully from crystal cable decision, but crystal cable do have different material in one cable, the one i mentioned was in collaboration with Astell kern, silver-gold alloy then use silver plated copper as shield.


The shield is for passive EMI shielding, it does not transfer the signal.
AK collaboration cable uses silver-gold alloy, same as duet series.


----------



## MuhVNYP

IgeNeLL said:


> The shield is for passive EMI shielding, it does not transfer the signal.
> AK collaboration cable uses silver-gold alloy, same as duet series.


This is where i actually not getting clear about, so, if shield is onlt just shielding, it doesnt affect the sound even tho with different matterials? n i curious if coaxial has different configuration to shielding, then what does both affect compared to those cables that doesnt use shield n coaxial configiration.


----------



## buonassi

IgeNeLL said:


> Reverberation Effect due to different speed of electron propagation


I think you're referring to 'group delay' of different frequencies.  This is what I believe is responsible for cables sounding different even if their measured FR and impedance is the same.  



MuhVNYP said:


> This is where i actually not getting clear about, so, if shield is onlt just shielding, it doesnt affect the sound even tho with different matterials? n i curious if coaxial has different configuration to shielding, then what does both affect compared to those cables that doesnt use shield n coaxial configiration.



I would guess that shielding simply blocks more RF.  Remember that cables are essentially antennae that can pick up high frequency waves in the air.  Of course these waves are inaudible on their own, but may affect the quality of transmission for lower frequencies.


----------



## justsomesonyfan

gold plated copper + palladium plated silver 4 core skedra signature cable. doesn't get much more exotic than this eh?? sorry for wrinkled photo 

now i need a pure occ silver cable to have something completely nonexotic haha


----------



## IgeNeLL

MuhVNYP said:


> This is where i actually not getting clear about, so, if shield is onlt just shielding, it doesnt affect the sound even tho with different matterials? n i curious if coaxial has different configuration to shielding, then what does both affect compared to those cables that doesnt use shield n coaxial configiration.


Of course it affect the sound, by introduce more inductance or capacitance ( I'm not sure). As you can see, mostly, all hiend speaker cable does not shileded.
For coxial application, shielding is compulsory.
You can do coxial with/without shield and test


----------



## twister6

For those who are interested, here is my detailed review of PWAudio Monile series pure copper/silver cables.  I covered all 4 versions in my write up here.


----------



## justsomesonyfan

twister6 said:


> For those who are interested, here is my detailed review of PWAudio Monile series pure copper/silver cables.  I covered all 4 versions in my write up here.


twister which cables do you prefer the most? (talking generally, like a top 3 all time list)


----------



## twister6

justsomesonyfan said:


> twister which cables do you prefer the most? (talking generally, like a top 3 all time list)



It's all about the pair up of a specific cable with a specific IEM.  I do enjoy and appreciate many cable brands, EA, PWA, Eletech, PS, Satin, Dita, etc. but the preference always comes down to which one pairs up better.  Also, since I get a chance to review a lot of high end stuff, most of it in a pricier bracket, both IEMs and cables, like what I covered in Traillii review here which also shows some of my favorite high end pair ups.


----------



## proedros

@twister6 i went and  re-read your 1960s 2w review (from 2017) , like you said this cables has lovely synergy with Zeus XR

https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/2/


----------



## justsomesonyfan

twister6 said:


> It's all about the pair up of a specific cable with a specific IEM.  I do enjoy and appreciate many cable brands, EA, PWA, Eletech, PS, Satin, Dita, etc. but the preference always comes down to which one pairs up better.  Also, since I get a chance to review a lot of high end stuff, most of it in a pricier bracket, both IEMs and cables, like what I covered in Traillii review here which also shows some of my favorite high end pair ups.


thanks man  i've been very interested in the higher end cables but then again.. they're so expensive, and they're *cables*

oh well! guess my time will come eventually


----------



## twister6

proedros said:


> @twister6 i went and  re-read your 1960s 2w review (from 2017) , like you said this cables has lovely synergy with Zeus XR
> 
> https://twister6.com/2017/02/27/pwaudio-blackicon-1960s-cable/2/



And I'm yet to find a better pair up with EE Odin, other than included PWA 1960 2wire cable. Of course, it's a subjective opinion, my own personal preference, but it is a fact that Dean tuned Odin using 1960 2wire.


----------



## saktanbers

IgeNeLL said:


> Of course it affect the sound, by introduce more inductance or capacitance ( I'm not sure). As you can see, mostly, all hiend speaker cable does not shileded.
> For coxial application, shielding is compulsory.
> You can do coxial with/without shield and test


By "coaxial" do you mean interconnects or digital coaxial cable. Is "floating ground" type of shielding is considered.


----------



## ayang02

Just received the limited edition PW Audio Mercer Spider. Haven’t attached it to any IEM yet but I expect a very dark background as these are shielded by default. They are the prettiest PW Audio cable that I’ve seen and the new black connectors look awesome!


----------



## aaf evo

ayang02 said:


> Just received the limited edition PW Audio Mercer Spider. Haven’t attached it to any IEM yet but I expect a very dark background as these are shielded by default. They are the prettiest PW Audio cable that I’ve seen and the new black connectors look awesome!



love the look of this! how does one buy this and that wild priced Orpheus?


----------



## ayang02

aaf evo said:


> love the look of this! how does one buy this and that wild priced Orpheus?



I got them from a shop in Hong Kong: Right Shop Audio. Let’s Go Audio also has them. You can contact them on Facebook or via their websites.


----------



## aaf evo

ayang02 said:


> I got them from a shop in Hong Kong: Right Shop Audio. Let’s Go Audio also has them. You can contact them on Facebook or via their websites.



What’s the cost of the Mercer spider?


----------



## ayang02

aaf evo said:


> What’s the cost of the Mercer spider?



It’s 8800 HKD so roughly $1100 USD


----------



## twister6

ayang02 said:


> It’s 8800 HKD so roughly $1100 USD



All the talk about the looks and the price, how about the wires, which one? 

Btw, LOVE the new connector/plug looks, and the green color is fresh!


----------



## ayang02 (Jan 5, 2021)

twister6 said:


> All the talk about the looks and the price, how about the wires, which one?
> 
> Btw, LOVE the new connector/plug looks, and the green color is fresh!



Ah yes, forgot to mention the specs. From what I read, the PW Mercer Spider uses 26AWG ultra-pure copper wires for the shielding and left/right negative channels, 25.5AWG ultra-pure silver wires for the left/right positive channels. So this is a 4-wire cable utilizing the GND pole of the 4.4mm connection for shielding. I have not seen a 2.5mm version of this cable, that’ll probably require an additional 3.5mm plug to connect to GND.

Also, looks like this series is a limited run for 90 units.


----------



## Tristy

Hi guys (and girls), I'm looking for a cable that is composed of an alloy of Silver and Copper (could even throw a little gold in there) that isn't the same composition as the PW Loki (70% silver, 30% Copper). I've had a quick look on various websites but can't find anything, does any come to mind?


----------



## MatusSVK

Tristy said:


> Hi guys (and girls), I'm looking for a cable that is composed of an alloy of Silver and Copper (could even throw a little gold in there) that isn't the same composition as the  (70% silver, 30% Copper). I've had a quick look on various websites but can't find anything, does any come to mind?


Han sound aegis and kimera have all three, but in slightly different ratios.


----------



## gnahra

Tristy said:


> Hi guys (and girls), I'm looking for a cable that is composed of an alloy of Silver and Copper (could even throw a little gold in there) that isn't the same composition as the PW Loki (70% silver, 30% Copper). I've had a quick look on various websites but can't find anything, does any come to mind?


Would suggest hitting up @doctorjuggles - not sure if he has access to the type of wire you're looking for, but in my experience with him, his cables are top notch (sound quality, build, ergonomics, etc) and an excellent value.  Plus, he's local to you!


----------



## Deferenz

I’m considering getting a new cable but I’m not sure what to get yet.

I currently have 3 cables; EA Thor Silver II+, PWA 1950’s and PWA No.5. I listen a lot at my desk while working. I’ve been finding that I need something warm and smooth that has some musicality. This allows me to concentrate on my work and enjoy listening at the same time. I’m finding that the 1950’s is very detailed, and although great for more in-depth listening, is not the best for me to use when working. The Thor SII+ is punchy and extends the high end and again for me it’s not best when I’m working. I’m therefore using the No.5 as I’m finding this fits the bill better at the moment.

I guess then that I’m looking for something that has some warmth, is smooth, musical, has good soundstage, and is detailed but without going into something like the 1950’s type detail. I should state that the IEM’s I’m using are Trio and Legend X.

I’m not sure whether I should be looking at copper, SPC or GPC. I think I might need to stay away from silver though(?) Any suggestions would be great 😊


----------



## aaf evo

Deferenz said:


> I’m considering getting a new cable but I’m not sure what to get yet.
> 
> I currently have 3 cables; EA Thor Silver II+, PWA 1950’s and PWA No.5. I listen a lot at my desk while working. I’ve been finding that I need something warm and smooth that has some musicality. This allows me to concentrate on my work and enjoy listening at the same time. I’m finding that the 1950’s is very detailed, and although great for more in-depth listening, is not the best for me to use when working. The Thor SII+ is punchy and extends the high end and again for me it’s not best when I’m working. I’m therefore using the No.5 as I’m finding this fits the bill better at the moment.
> 
> ...



Leo 2? I heard that as a less technical 1950s.


----------



## Deferenz

aaf evo said:


> Leo 2? I heard that as a less technical 1950s.


Thanks @aaf evo , the Leo 2 is a top cable. I had a demo of this a year ago with the Trio. I found it very clear and detailed and it seemed (to me) to have an emphasis on the highs and a slightly reduced bass presence. Sadly I didn’t think it was the right cable for my taste though. Thanks for the rec though.


----------



## aaf evo

Speaking of high end cables, @doctorjuggles made this absolute masterpiece for my FiR M5. It’s a 4 wire silver cable and it has some of the best ergonomics I have used. Incredibly soft and supple. Couldn’t recommend highly enough. 

Now I’m no photographer but I’ve done my best. These things are absolutely beautiful.


----------



## proedros (Jan 15, 2021)

Deferenz said:


> I’m considering getting a new cable but I’m not sure what to get yet.
> 
> *I guess then that I’m looking for something that has some warmth, is smooth, musical, has good soundstage, and is detailed but without going into something like the 1950’s type detail.* I should state that the IEM’s I’m using are Trio and Legend X.
> 
> I’m not sure whether I should be looking at copper, SPC or GPC. I think I might need to stay away from silver though(?) Any suggestions would be great 😊



check EA Lionheart , used it with my Zeus XR and it did sound like the bold part

also, here are some reviews

*https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/effect-audio-lionheart.22371/reviews*


----------



## MatusSVK

Apologies to be a little slow, but does @doctorjuggles manufacturer custom cables 😏?

That sounds really interesting, is there a website or portfolio I could visit?


----------



## aaf evo

MatusSVK said:


> Apologies to be a little slow, but does @doctorjuggles manufacturer custom cables 😏?
> 
> That sounds really interesting, is there a website or portfolio I could visit?



The cable I posted for my M5 is fully built to what I asked him to do, so if that’s what you mean by custom then yes. Shoot him a Head Fi message.


----------



## Deezel177

Deferenz said:


> I’m considering getting a new cable but I’m not sure what to get yet.
> 
> I currently have 3 cables; EA Thor Silver II+, PWA 1950’s and PWA No.5. I listen a lot at my desk while working. I’ve been finding that I need something warm and smooth that has some musicality. This allows me to concentrate on my work and enjoy listening at the same time. I’m finding that the 1950’s is very detailed, and although great for more in-depth listening, is not the best for me to use when working. The Thor SII+ is punchy and extends the high end and again for me it’s not best when I’m working. I’m therefore using the No.5 as I’m finding this fits the bill better at the moment.
> 
> ...



I'd definitely recommend Han Sound Audio's 8-wire Aegis for that. It perfectly encapsulates that warm, laid-back, relaxed sound you're looking for *with* the detail and staging. Alternatively, since you're pairing it with the Legend X, Effect Audio's Janus Dynamic is a great alternative too. It's just as musical and relaxed, but a bit less buttery or thick-sounding. And, it slightly beats out the 8-wire Aegis in imaging precision, stage expansion and low-end control.


----------



## MatusSVK

aaf evo said:


> The cable I posted for my M5 is fully built to what I asked him to do, so if that’s what you mean by custom then yes. Shoot him a Head Fi message.


Just did : )


----------



## Deferenz

Deezel177 said:


> I'd definitely recommend Han Sound Audio's 8-wire Aegis for that. It perfectly encapsulates that warm, laid-back, relaxed sound you're looking for *with* the detail and staging. Alternatively, since you're pairing it with the Legend X, Effect Audio's Janus Dynamic is a great alternative too. It's just as musical and relaxed, but a bit less buttery or thick-sounding. And, it slightly beats out the 8-wire Aegis in imaging precision, stage expansion and low-end control.


Thanks @Deezel177 . The 8 wire Aegis does look good and fits the price level I’d want to spend. It seems like it would provide the type of sound and feel that I’m after. Checking on Music Sanctuary it seems like there is a 3-5 weeks build time with Han Sound.


----------



## Deezel177

Deferenz said:


> Thanks @Deezel177 . The 8 wire Aegis does look good and fits the price level I’d want to spend. It seems like it would provide the type of sound and feel that I’m after. Checking on Music Sanctuary it seems like there is a 3-5 weeks build time with Han Sound.



Yeah, the Aegis isn't their most readily-available cable. It was always billed as somewhat of a limited release. But, if you can take the wait, I think it'll really satisfy what you're looking for.


----------



## Deferenz

proedros said:


> check EA Lionheart , used it with my Zeus XR and it did sound like the bold part
> 
> also, here are some reviews
> 
> *https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/effect-audio-lionheart.22371/reviews*


That’s another good cable. I have listened to the Lionheart before and it is very smooth. I’m not sure if this is still in EA’s line up as I don’t recall seeing it the last few times I looked through their site.


----------



## Deferenz (Jan 24, 2021)

I am trying to order a Han Sound Audio Aegis 8 Wire cable from Music Sanctuary. When I get to the shipping screen though a message appears that says ‘Some items in your cart don’t ship to your location. Contact the store for more information.’ I then cannot get any further with the order. I’m not sure if this means orders can’t be shipped to the UK due to lockdown issues. I have contacted them to try and find out. 😥

Edit: All sorted now.

I’ve just purchased the Han Sound Aegis 8 Wire. Thanks @Deezel177 for the recommendation. Now the wait for its build time and delivery begins...


----------



## klyrish (Feb 3, 2021)

EDIT: I just realized this thread is only for IEM cables. I can remove the content below if necessary so as to not derail this thread.

=========

I wanted to give my impressions of and experience with a new 10' LQi Esprit Series UP-OCC Silver Plated Copper Headphone Cable that I ordered last week and which arrived yesterday. I am not a shill, I just wanted to share my experience on these barely-mentioned cables to hopefully provide information that could be helpful for someone else in a situation similar to mine.

My setup:
Roon Core (2014 MacBook Pro) -> AudioQuest Carbon USB cable -> X-SPDIF 2 (w/LPS) -> Better Cables Silver Serpent II XLR used for AES -> Sonnet Morpheus XLR (BC Silver Serpent II) -> EAR HP4 Low-Z -> ZMF Verite C (& Atticus but I haven't tried this cable with the Atticus yet because the Verite C sound too good)

Note: both sets of headphones sound terrible through the HP4's high-Z jacks.

I have a ZMF OFC cable from the Verite C and bought a ZMF Lektrik S as well and had been reasonably happy with the change in sound from going OFC to Lektrik S but did not like that it was only a 5' cable. I definitely noticed that highs have better definition while being smoother and the stage is a hair more expansive vs. the OFC cable but the differences were minor, as expected with cables. I started looking around at a number of premium cable companies and getting a 10' one put the price around $1000 minimum for pretty much every cable I found except for the Silver Dragon and LQi. After reading some things about the Silver Dragon around here, I wasn't all that excited about the thought of getting one.

I took a chance on LQi and am so glad I did.

The differences and improvements were immediately apparent upon swapping out the Lektrik S for the Espirit. I'd been reading a lot about the holographic strengths of the Morpheus but to date hadn't heard anything that was much more impressive than the Bifrost 2 it replaced. Suddenly, there was height, depth, and positioning was fully 3D. It wasn't a subtle change at all. I listened to some NIN and Enter Shikari to hear how heavily-layered and processed tracks sounded and was absolutely blown away by how much better separation of layers and placement of instruments was through this cable. The Espirit showed just how flat and unimpressive the stage had been with the OFC and Lektrik S cables.

I left everything on overnight with music playing to burn the cable in as it's recommended on the product page to give 50 hours for the cable to reach its final sonic form. This morning, bass had become much more impactful and tight; dynamics have increased dramatically, and microdetail abounds. Again, these aren't subtle changes. I lost count of how many times I've said, "Oh wow..." this morning while listening to tracks I'm already intimately familiar with.

I'm legitimately shocked by how much of an impact this cable has had. Switching back to the OFC or Lektrik S is just as jarring: everything is flatter and more congested, dynamics are weaker, and bass becomes much flabbier and less detailed.

I fully believe in the effect that cables can have on the chain and generally agree that the impact is minimal but there is something about this LQi cable in this chain that makes the entire thing far more than the sum of all its parts. The synergy is incredible and my headphones have never felt or sounded more alive--and I didn't really think anything was lacking before. LQi is definitely worth consideration for an aftermarket cable. Even if you don't get the dramatic positive change like I've experienced so far, the price is very hard to argue.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gnahra said:


> Would suggest hitting up @doctorjuggles - not sure if he has access to the type of wire you're looking for, but in my experience with him, his cables are top notch (sound quality, build, ergonomics, etc) and an excellent value.  Plus, he's local to you!



Great advice, the good Doctor makes phenomenal cables.


----------



## SHIMACM

Hello guys, I have more or less three years of hobby and I am totally raw in relation to cables.

I am looking to buy two RCA cables to connect my DAC to my tube amplifier and another DAC to a solid state amplifier.

I also want a power cord for my tube amp.


So, which cable brands could you point me to?

I'm actually looking for cables that are excellent value for money, because I don't have the money to buy cutting-edge cables.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Did anyone buy it?


----------



## Deferenz

Xinlisupreme said:


> Did anyone buy it?


I’m not familiar with the brand but that’ a gorgeous looking cable. How much does it cost?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Purple one 299€


----------



## MatusSVK

Xinlisupreme said:


> Purple one 299€


Seriously? For a beautiful copper, gold, silver and palladium mix cable👀

Where can I buy it?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

MatusSVK said:


> Seriously? For a beautiful copper, gold, silver and palladium mix cable👀
> 
> Where can I buy it?



you find it on Ali, I’m waiting for answer but I think they are close in Cina now


----------



## MatusSVK

Xinlisupreme said:


> you find it on Ali, I’m waiting for answer but I think they are close in Cina now


Nothing against Ali express, but I will probably wait for some impressions in that case


----------



## twister6

Xinlisupreme said:


> Purple one 299€



Wait, they are selling 20AWG thick cable with Gold Plated OCC Silver, Palladium Plated 7N OCC Copper, and Silver Plated Copper-Silver alloy and fancy custom plug/connectors/splitter for... $350 USD.  You do realize, it is unrealistic


----------



## Xinlisupreme

could be a fake?


----------



## twister6

Xinlisupreme said:


> could be a fake?



You know what they say when it is too good to be true


----------



## MatusSVK

twister6 said:


> You know what they say when it is too good to be true


You should ask for a review sample😁


----------



## saktanbers

twister6 said:


> Wait, they are selling 20AWG thick cable with Gold Plated OCC Silver, Palladium Plated 7N OCC Copper, and Silver Plated Copper-Silver alloy and fancy custom plug/connectors/splitter for... $350 USD.  You do realize, it is unrealistic


Great news 🙂


----------



## ValeryPaul (Feb 23, 2021)

twister6 said:


> You know what they say when it is too good to be true


Go to the mid-price cables thread, they talk about the Tianwaitian made of the same material as this one...The Tian is only a few bucks more than this one and it is made of the same material as the Penon Totem and it is as good as it too. I just don't understand the hate that some of you have here. Wouldn't it be easier to say "I don't know, I don't have it, I haven't heard it", instead of speculating about fakery and things of that order! Disappointing especially from someone that I have read some of his reviews.
Here is the Tian


----------



## ValeryPaul

Just because it doesn't cost an arm and a leg!


----------



## fzman

I've been recently smitten by the L&P P6  Pro paired with Final Audio A8000. As much as I have been enjoying the combo with the stock SPC 3.5trs cable.  Once it had about 50 or so hours on it, i deceide to try a few other cables and found that the combo did respond well to cable changes.  My go-to Cardas wire Triton Audio built cables bring some added warmth and body, but do lose a bit of the  sparkle of the stock cable - like going from lace to velvet.

Next up was my 2-pin OSLO, combined with OE adapters to convert it to mmcx. Seems like the perfect middle-ground. Now, a smart person would just claim victory and be done with it. But......   well, you know the story.  I am an unrepentant audiophile.  So, the question is this:

What's just like the OSLO, but better? That is, neutral, natural, liquid and organic, but open, dynamic and resolving.  Perhaps a TOTL pure copper cable? (or just buy an MMCX OSLO to eliminate the 2-pin adaptors on mine?  

Want to limit my search to something I can get quickly, and for at or below $1000US. 

OPerators are standing by....


----------



## Deferenz

I’ve just received my new cable, the Han Sound Aegis 8 wire. Thanks to @Deezel177 for the recommendation on this. I’ve run it for a few hours and first impressions show a warm calm sound that is non fatiguing and easy to listen to. It  improves the width of the soundstage as well as showing an increase in layering. It also gives a holographic feel to the music. So far so good 😊


----------



## Deezel177

Deferenz said:


> I’ve just received my new cable, the Han Sound Aegis 8 wire. Thanks to @Deezel177 for the recommendation on this. I’ve run it for a few hours and first impressions show a warm calm sound that is non fatiguing and easy to listen to. It  improves the width of the soundstage as well as showing an increase in layering. It also gives a holographic feel to the music. So far so good 😊


Awesome! I'm really glad you love the cable, and I look forward to more impressions once you get to know 'em more.


----------



## xenithon

Hey all. Was wondering where to post this question and thought this may be the best place. Can anyone provide some insight into the general sound that can be expected from palladium plated silver cables?

I know it’s difficult to generalize as cables can be very different and there are outliers, but on the spectrum from traditional “thick and warm” copper to “leaner, brighter, detailed” silver, where would PPS stand?


----------



## Deezel177

xenithon said:


> Hey all. Was wondering where to post this question and thought this may be the best place. Can anyone provide some insight into the general sound that can be expected from palladium plated silver cables?
> 
> I know it’s difficult to generalize as cables can be very different and there are outliers, but on the spectrum from traditional “thick and warm” copper to “leaner, brighter, detailed” silver, where would PPS stand?


In my personal experience, the one quality that palladium-plating tends to contribute is a sense of refinement and speed, no matter how thick or rich the notes themselves may be. I've heard it from slightly mellower-sounding cables like Effect Audio's Janus D to more dynamic ones like Satin Audio's Athena. Notes vanish pretty quickly and smoothly, which allows you more of a view of the background, but without it feeling too abrupt or staccato-ish either. It results in a more holographic, on-your-toes image. Though, it may not be ideal if you tend to prefer notes that linger and marinate. Of course, that's been my experience based on a select number of cables. I can't speak for, say, PlusSound's palladium-plated cables, which I haven't heard yet.


----------



## xenithon

Deezel177 said:


> In my personal experience, the one quality that palladium-plating tends to contribute is a sense of refinement and speed, no matter how thick or rich the notes themselves may be. I've heard it from slightly mellower-sounding cables like Effect Audio's Janus D to more dynamic ones like Satin Audio's Athena. Notes vanish pretty quickly and smoothly, which allows you more of a view of the background, but without it feeling too abrupt or staccato-ish either. It results in a more holographic, on-your-toes image. Though, it may not be ideal if you tend to prefer notes that linger and marinate. Of course, that's been my experience based on a select number of cables. I can't speak for, say, PlusSound's palladium-plated cables, which I haven't heard yet.


Thanks so much. This helps. I’m considering a PPS for the Noir, to give a blacker background and keep the intrinsically thick midbass under control (without thinning out the sub bass too much or making the Noir even brighter).


----------



## aaf evo

Effect Audio’s price increases took place today, you can see the updated MSRPs on their website. Some of the new prices are ... shocking... to say the least.


----------



## Deezel177

aaf evo said:


> Effect Audio’s price increases took place today, you can see the updated MSRPs on their website. Some of the new prices are ... shocking... to say the least.


Forgive me if I'm missing something, but it looks like a $100-ish increase to the Leonidas II and Cleopatra, I think? Are there any more worth noting?


----------



## Deferenz

aaf evo said:


> Effect Audio’s price increases took place today, you can see the updated MSRPs on their website. Some of the new prices are ... shocking... to say the least.


Any cable in particular? I’ve just checked  the ones I was aware of (<$600) and I can’t see a change. Is it on the flagships?


----------



## aaf evo

Deezel177 said:


> Forgive me if I'm missing something, but it looks like a $100-ish increase to the Leonidas II and Cleopatra, I think? Are there any more worth noting?





Deferenz said:


> Any cable in particular? I’ve just checked  the ones I was aware of (<$600) and I can’t see a change. Is it on the flagships?



All of them got raises, the most was the Horus Octa with a $400 price increase.

Leonidas 2 went from $888 to $999, Leo 2 Octa from $1888 to $1999.

OG Horus from $1,399 to $1,799.


----------



## Deezel177

aaf evo said:


> All of them got raises, the most was the Horus Octa with a $400 price increase.
> 
> Leonidas 2 went from $888 to $999, Leo 2 Octa from $1888 to $1999.
> 
> OG Horus from $1,399 to $1,799.


I don't believe I see any changes on the Vogue or Premium series cables, though I could be misremembering on the latter. The Code 51, Janus's and several others have stayed the same as well, so I don't get what you mean by "all of them". I see your point on the Horus ones, though.


----------



## aaf evo (Mar 31, 2021)

Excuse my laziness, regardless.. bit shocked at some of the increases....

Given that this is the high end cable thread, I didn’t really feel the need to specify about their cheaper options. But you are right, the Janus and Code 51 didn’t change in price.


----------



## Deferenz (Mar 31, 2021)

Deezel177 said:


> I don't believe I see any changes on the Vogue or Premium series cables, though I could be misremembering on the latter. The Code 51, Janus's and several others have stayed the same as well, so I don't get what you mean by "all of them". I see your point on the Horus ones, though.


The Premium series looks unchanged. I paid $569 for the Thor Silver II+ last year and it’s still the same price on the site. I can see some of the other increases though.


----------



## Tristy

Is there anyone that has experience with labkable cables and can comment on their experience with their 2-pin connectors? I have the Samurai III on my VE8 and I found that the pins were maybe slightly thicker than the standard cable? A slightly tighter fit and I’m thinking it may be due to a slight difference in distance in the pins? I’m not sure but I was hoping to get others opinions on this as I really wanted to test it out on Odin but I’m weary of stretching out the connectors etc.


----------



## 546687 (Feb 10, 2022)

--


----------



## gnahra (May 7, 2021)

Sim City said:


> Are there any honest cable makers out there?  After reading about Toxic Cables, BTG-Audio, etc., I want to make sure I find the cable maker reputable since there is no review system.  Just exploring mid to premium custom IEM cables at this time.


my go-to for cables are Norne and @doctorjuggles
Never been disappointed with either.

Edit: I should clarify that both consistently EXCEED my expectations. So much so that I’ll probably never buy from one of the “big brand” cable makers again.  Just no need. 

Norne has a forum on head-fi
Norne has a forum on head-fi
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nor...io-feedback-impression-thread.606500/page-354


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

fzman said:


> What's just like the OSLO, but better? That is, neutral, natural, liquid and organic, but open, dynamic and resolving.  Perhaps a TOTL pure copper cable? (or just buy an MMCX OSLO to eliminate the 2-pin adaptors on mine?
> 
> Want to limit my search to something I can get quickly, and for at or below $1000


Ironically, silver from DHC. Clone Silver or better Symbiote Elite 19. Some of the best cables I've had to try. And they do not change the tonal characteristics of the headphones, leaving them natural and honest. The new top DHC is more expensive, but you can buy for 800, if you are considering the secondary market. However, it is rare.


----------



## choisan

Sim City said:


> Are there any honest cable makers out there?  After reading about Toxic Cables, BTG-Audio, etc., I want to make sure I find the cable maker reputable since there is no review system.  Just exploring mid to premium custom IEM cables at this time.


There are so many reputable makers out there, strongly suggest to stay away some brands, the L brand also


----------



## Damz87

gnahra said:


> my go-to for cables are Norne and @doctorjuggles
> Never been disappointed with either.
> Norne has a forum on head-fi
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/nor...io-feedback-impression-thread.606500/page-354


+1 on @doctorjuggles

high quality cables without the extortionate price tags


----------



## aaf evo

Speaking of extortionate priced cables… This bad boy has been ordered, will share more when I have it.


----------



## mungster (May 9, 2021)

aaf evo said:


> Speaking of extortionate priced cables… This bad boy has been ordered, will share more when I have it.


Oh lord.  Is that the Orpheus?  That's a $6k cable!


----------



## aaf evo

mungster said:


> Oh lord.  That's a $6k cable!



A little less, but yeah once you pass a certain point it’s all sort of a blurry mess.


----------



## mungster

aaf evo said:


> A little less, but yeah once you pass a certain point it’s all sort of a blurry mess.


I am going guess you going sell the traiilli cable then.


----------



## aaf evo

mungster said:


> I am going guess you going sell the traiilli cable then.



I’m not sure, right now I don’t have any plans to. I’ve never really been a fan of parting out stuff and whenever the next best thing comes along I’m sure the new owner would want the stock cable too for the Traillii. We will see what happens though.


----------



## mungster

aaf evo said:


> I’m not sure, right now I don’t have any plans to. I’ve never really been a fan of parting out stuff and whenever the next best thing comes along I’m sure the new owner would want the stock cable too for the Traillii. We will see what happens though.


👍


----------



## Skullar

Anyone know decent cable maker that are using 90 degree terminations? Cheers.


----------



## mungster

Skullar said:


> Anyone know decent cable maker that are using 90 degree terminations? Cheers.


Luminox audio, brise audio.


----------



## audio123

Plussound has exceeded expectations with their recently released Limited Edition Tri-Hybrid. This is the first cable I have ever tried that I dare say flawless. Simply phenomenal. Enjoy and Happy Listening, as always! 

*Plussound Tri-Hybrid Review



*


----------



## aaf evo

Okay so I have spent about 4 hours or so with the Orpheus and the Traillii. Enough time for me to feel pretty confident about sharing some initial impressions and how i perceive the sound relative to the stock Traillii cable. I did do one quick A/B with the stock cable after some hours to confirm what I was hearing as differences between the two.

Some key words that come to mind when I hear the Orpheus: natural, organic, analogue, musical, smooth

So relative to the stock Traillii cable, the Orpheus brings the Traillii towards a thicker and smoother sound. The sound comes off as incredibly natural and analogue sounding to me while still being able to slice and dice up the music and present it in its finest level of detail. So as a result I perceive this to come off as more musical than the stock cable whilst still retaining the technical capabilities. 

Again, anything I write is based off of a comparison to the stock configuration. 

The bass to me with the Orpheus comes off as a bit more mid-bass oriented where the stock cable goes more for the sub bass, here is where I almost immediately preferred the stock cable. I was still using the stock tips and wasn’t a fan of the extra mid bass boom as I really love the way the Traillii does sub bass and it’s something I didn’t want to give up. I had to tip roll a bit and landed on the azla sedna light shorts and that managed to take the Traillii back to a more sub bass oriented signature whilst retaining the added mid bass of the Orpheus. So with the adjustments I made to tips this is a welcome’d change for me as I currently love my bass to be presented as a sub bass emphasis with quantity and quality. 

The mid range on the Orpheus relative to the stock Traillii cable comes off as thicker, more musical, and smoother. There is added weight to the lower mid range which adds more body to male vocals and the upper mid range is SMOOTH as butter. Overall, I do hear the mid range to be pushed slightly more forward compared to the stock cable, as a result I perceive the overall soundstage to come off as slightly smaller than the stock cable but I think the trade-off here is more than worth it. Now the stock cable by any means to me does NOT come off as unnatural or smooth, but this manages to take it up a notch. Again, as a result of the extra body in the mid range and what I hear to be smoother transients, I feel the overall layering and separation of the Traillii is a little behind the stock cable (not sure if that’s something that will change with “cable burn in” but we will see).

I don’t have a whole bunch to say about the treble. It is almost identical to me, I hear the lower treble to be slightly less emphasized which as a result makes me hear a little more air in the upper treble. Overall, nothing crazy here or super noteworthy. Still stays in line with the rest of the signature retaining that smooth and musical sound.

As far as dynamics go, yes, this is the darkest background cable I have heard. Now it is impossible for me to even quantify or say how much better it is over the stock cable as it’s already incredibly good at doing that. I notice a little difference in smaller details in the sound popping out at me over stock. All I can say is that there is an improvement but it’s not as drastic or noticeable as the tonal differences between the cables themselves.

The Orpheus/Traillii combination reminds me VERY MUCH of the P6 Pro tonality, except here paired with the DX300 I hear a wider and more separated stage as well as more treble presence. For me personally, this is like a dream pair up as that type of sound is what I’ve been hunting for in the P6 Pro for so long but I never pulled the trigger because of the UI.

Some non sound related things:

- if you find the 1960s 4 wire uncomfortable or microphonic, you will find the same with the Orpheus
- no noticeable weight difference over the 1960s 4 wire, I am used to the weight of that by now so maybe coming from a smaller/thinner cable to the Orpheus would be more drastic, but no issues or discomfort or me. 
- I have no clue what’s going on with the shielding part of the cable but you can legit bend and form it like it’s play-doh, there’s some interesting stuff going on in there, lol.
- the dark blue of the paracord is darker in person than in pictures, basically looks black from far away 

TL;DR / Conclusion:

The stock cable 110% does not need changing and I fully understand why Oriolus have chosen it as the default cable, but there is plenty of wiggle room to adjust the sound if you feel the need to.

If you are looking for a smoother and more musical presentation for the Traillii which still manages to retain about 95% of the “analytical” presentation of the IEM, this is for you.  To elaborate on this for example, say the stock cable puts technicalities and musicality at a 9 and 8 respectively, I would rank the Orpheus on like an 8.5 (lower in my honest opinion due to the thicker and smoother sound) for technicalities to a 10 on musicality.

Here’s a low quality photo of the pair together on my bed cover that I hope one day will be as famous as Twister’s countertop:


----------



## ayang02

aaf evo said:


> Okay so I have spent about 4 hours or so with the Orpheus and the Traillii. Enough time for me to feel pretty confident about sharing some initial impressions and how i perceive the sound relative to the stock Traillii cable. I did do one quick A/B with the stock cable after some hours to confirm what I was hearing as differences between the two.
> 
> Some key words that come to mind when I hear the Orpheus: natural, organic, analogue, musical, smooth
> 
> ...



NIIICE serial number😀


----------



## aaf evo

What is the general consensus here on head fi, is cable burn in a thing?


----------



## tawmizzzz

aaf evo said:


> What is the general consensus here on head fi, is cable burn in a thing?


Yeah burns a hole in your wallet


----------



## Damz87

When the two most contentious audiophile topics collide


----------



## Calfredo826

The Metropolis just came. Build quality is outstanding.


----------



## jwilliamhurst

Calfredo826 said:


> The Metropolis just came. Build quality is outstanding.


Super curious about this cable. Let us know your impressions


----------



## Calfredo826

jwilliamhurst said:


> Super curious about this cable. Let us know your impressions


I will, I’ll have some impressions tomorrow. So far so good.


----------



## aaf evo

Calfredo826 said:


> I will, I’ll have some impressions tomorrow. So far so good.



I don’t want to be THAT guy, but I am noticing more changes with the Orpheus with more play time relative to the impressions I posted yesterday. I’d maybe give it a day or two and see if any “burn in” makes any difference.


----------



## fuhransahis

aaf evo said:


> I don’t want to be THAT guy, but I am noticing more changes with the Orpheus with more play time relative to the impressions I posted yesterday. I’d maybe give it a day or two and see if any “burn in” makes any difference.


Might not be hocus pocus, Trevor from Norne Audio does recommend about 200hrs of cable burn in for his cables


----------



## Calfredo826

aaf evo said:


> I don’t want to be THAT guy, but I am noticing more changes with the Orpheus with more play time relative to the impressions I posted yesterday. I’d maybe give it a day or two and see if any “burn in” makes any difference.


I am. Curious to see what other changes you noticed.


----------



## aaf evo

I’ll post a proper follow up in a few days or so. In short though:

The sound as a whole has opened up and become even more layered/separated than the stock cable (something which I said was the opposite)

The mid bass boom seems to have calmed do significantly , enough to where I went back to the stock Traillii tips and can hear the sub bass emphasis now like I did with the stock cable also.


----------



## twister6

aaf evo said:


> I don’t want to be THAT guy, but I am noticing more changes with the Orpheus with more play time relative to the impressions I posted yesterday. I’d maybe give it a day or two and see if any “burn in” makes any difference.



Some people say it is a placebo effect.  Personally, I do hear a change and have found many references to the following which is considered to be "objective":

"_During the manufacturing process, as insulation is extruded over the conductors, gases can become trapped. This combined with the high electrical charges often found in new cables, result in a brittle and bright sound that lacks the detail and depth desired for music reproduction. There are a few ways to solve this problem. One way to burn-in your cables is to simply hook them up in your ... audio system and play music for a minimum of 100 hours._"


----------



## Dsnuts

I actually tested this myself. I think it depends on the material used for the cable more than anything but I had 2 sets of ISN AG8 cable pure silver cables. 

One set I was using for easily over 200 plus hours as it was used on many of my IEMs as well as burn in for newer IEMs I was reviewing at the time, decided to buy another for another IEM and I got brand new AG8 cable. 

So one cable with numerous hours and one fresh out of the box. I went back n forth using the same earphone and I could tell the used AG8 had a bigger sound in general it was subtle but noticeable. Slightly wider in stage with a fuller sound, the signature was the exact same but where the difference in stage perception.  This was a head to head comparison so none of this based on memory stuff and I was using 2 sets of the same IEMs as well to compare.


----------



## audio123

aaf evo said:


> Okay so I have spent about 4 hours or so with the Orpheus and the Traillii. Enough time for me to feel pretty confident about sharing some initial impressions and how i perceive the sound relative to the stock Traillii cable. I did do one quick A/B with the stock cable after some hours to confirm what I was hearing as differences between the two.
> 
> Some key words that come to mind when I hear the Orpheus: natural, organic, analogue, musical, smooth
> 
> ...


Bravo @aaf evo . I concur. Always straightforward and spot-on impressions. Legendary.


----------



## NaittsirK

I today ordered Metropolis w/ 1950s.
A really pricey blind buy considering 0 reviews and rough translations from Chinese sources.

I just hope it stands in line in technical terms to the price bracket it belongs to. So Iliad, code 51, 1950s etc... 
Tonally I wish it can tame v shaped or too fun sounding iems such as Thummim  that I am planning to pair it with.


----------



## claud W

aaf evo said:


> What is the general consensus here on head fi, is cable burn in a thing?


I have had too many cable manufactures tell me to burn in my cables for specified lengths of time to question the practice.


----------



## aaf evo

Well I’m a believer now. The amount of micro details the Orpheus manages to pick up while still remaining musical is incredible.


----------



## Damz87

Being in Australia, I'm always a couple of days behind @aaf evo with new arrivals, but I'm happy to finally have this chunky boi arrive 
big thanks to @MusicTeck for the impeccable service as usual!

Some general thoughts on build and packaging... Expectations were high given the insane price tag, but to be honest this cable feels worth it's price purely based on unboxing experience and build quality, at least in my opinion. The box and metal case feel extremely high quality, and the black packaging aesthetics look sleek and luxurious.








The cable itself is surprisingly supple despite its thickness. I love the matte black 2-pin barrels and Y-splitter. They are smooth to touch and have a good amount of weight without feeling too heavy.

I won't say too much regarding sound because its early days, but I have been listening for about 30 minutes now with my Traillii and DMP-Z1 and there is a noticeable change to the midrange and bass note weight and texture, sounding somewhat more analogue. Like @aaf evo , I am hearing a bit of a reduction in stage expansion with midrange notes being brought forward with more prominence, and it sounds generally more intimate. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as the Traillii has plenty of space to spare anyway, but I'll see how this changes over time and report back


----------



## aaf evo

Damz87 said:


> Being in Australia, I'm always a couple of days behind @aaf evo with new arrivals, but I'm happy to finally have this chunky boi arrive
> big thanks to @MusicTeck for the impeccable service as usual!
> 
> Some general thoughts on build and packaging... Expectations were high given the insane price tag, but to be honest this cable feels worth it's price purely based on unboxing experience and build quality, at least in my opinion. The box and metal case feel extremely high quality, and the black packaging aesthetics look sleek and luxurious.
> ...



Oh you just wait… 😂


----------



## claud W (May 28, 2021)

aaf evo said:


> What is the general consensus here on head fi, is cable burn in a thing?


There are those that believe in it and those who do not. I have vendors like Norne specify 300 hours of burn in so I am a believer. I think it depends on your DAP and cable. I would not worry about it with a cheap DAP and cheaper than $40 cable. Not enough resolution to hear the difference.


----------



## proedros

aaf evo said:


> Well I’m a believer now. The amount of micro details the Orpheus manages to pick up while still remaining musical is incredible.



cables improve the sound , you can see it even with a 500$ cable


----------



## aaf evo

proedros said:


> cables improve the sound , you can see it even with a 500$ cable



For sure. I’ve always been a cable believer assuming the synergy is there. Just was not sure about burn in. I am convinced now though.


----------



## dhc0329

aaf evo said:


> For sure. I’ve always been a cable believer assuming the synergy is there. Just was not sure about burn in. I am convinced now though.



Considering its hefty price tag are you convinced the Orpheus upgrade from stock is indeed worth it? It's quite tempting but it's not cheap stuff.


----------



## aaf evo

dhc0329 said:


> Considering its hefty price tag are you convinced the Orpheus upgrade from stock is indeed worth it? It's quite tempting but it's not cheap stuff.



If I am being totally honest, I don’t think any cable is worth this money. I only have one IEM now so it’s different for me I suppose. I would not spend this money if I had multiple.

The main differences I hear with the Orpheus over stock with the Traillii is a slightly more forward mid range and an overall smoother and more detailed sound signature. It is very good at picking up micro details while remaining musical due to its very black background

I’ve also loved the Orpheus blue since I first saw it, so I wanted one regardless.

I am happy with the purchase.


----------



## dhc0329

aaf evo said:


> If I am being totally honest, I don’t think any cable is worth this money. I only have one IEM now so it’s different for me I suppose. I would not spend this money if I had multiple.
> 
> The main differences I hear with the Orpheus over stock with the Traillii is a slightly more forward mid range and an overall smoother and more detailed sound signature. It is very good at picking up micro details while remaining musical due to its very black background
> 
> ...



Thanks for your honest input. "smoother and more detailed" hey that's what I want..lol I would have purchased it in a heart beat if I didn't lose so much money on stocks recently. But then again I will seriously consider it if microphonics is not a major concern here.


----------



## aaf evo

dhc0329 said:


> Thanks for your honest input. "smoother and more detailed" hey that's what I want..lol I would have purchased it in a heart beat if I didn't lose so much money on stocks recently. But then again I will seriously consider it if microphonics is not a major concern here.



If you have issues with other PW 4 wire paracord microphonics or the stock Traillii cable, it will not be any better here unfortunately.

From a sound perspective I’m very happy with it. I didn’t even want to change anything about the Traillii but what I am hearing is actually an improvement.


----------



## zachgraz

Hi folks,
I have been using the Effect Audio Horus with my 64audio U12t. It is the best match that I could find - no other cable I have tried sounds so transparent and natural with the U12t and I have tried quite a few. 
It annoys me a bit that it is so expensive and I am looking for a cheaper alternative that I could use on the go and not worry too much about it getting damaged.
Does anybody here know a true alternative to the Horus? Please only reply if you know the Horus - I do not need any random recommendations.


----------



## Damz87

zachgraz said:


> Hi folks,
> I have been using the Effect Audio Horus with my 64audio U12t. It is the best match that I could find - no other cable I have tried sounds so transparent and natural with the U12t and I have tried quite a few.
> It annoys me a bit that it is so expensive and I am looking for a cheaper alternative that I could use on the go and not worry too much about it getting damaged.
> Does anybody here know a true alternative to the Horus? Please only reply if you know the Horus - I do not need any random recommendations.


Have you tried an Eletech Plato? I found the Plato to be very transparent when I had it and it paired well with U12t


----------



## zachgraz

Damz87 said:


> Have you tried an Eletech Plato? I found the Plato to be very transparent when I had it and it paired well with U12t


Thanks for the recommendation. I was thinking of something a little cheaper maybe up to $400 new. I am not sure if this is realistic though because all the cheaper cables I have tried don't stand a chance against the Horus. Even EA Cleopatra does'nt do the trick for me.


----------



## Damz87

zachgraz said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I was thinking of something a little cheaper maybe up to $400 new. I am not sure if this is realistic though because all the cheaper cables I have tried don't stand a chance against the Horus. Even EA Cleopatra does'nt do the trick for me.


Yeah I agree, Horus is extremely transparent. I haven’t heard many cables in that price range so I’ll be of no help, unfortunately. Hopefully someone can chime in with a rec


----------



## Deezel177

Hey there, everybody. I wanted to share my review of @PLUSSOUND's Exo Palladium-Plated Hybrid, which I just published on THL. It's a cable that I personally found unique for its ability to both add weight and solidity to instruments, whilst surrounding them with a very crisp, very open, very airy image. It's a really versatile cable that won't bottleneck your flagship in-ears one bit. So, if you're keen, you can check out the link on the PLUSSOUND thread, and, as always, I hope you enjoy. Cheers!


----------



## Skullar

Deezel177 said:


> Hey there, everybody. I wanted to share my review of @PLUSSOUND's Exo Palladium-Plated Hybrid, which I just published on THL. It's a cable that I personally found unique for its ability to both add weight and solidity to instruments, whilst surrounding them with a very crisp, very open, very airy image. It's a really versatile cable that won't bottleneck your flagship in-ears one bit. So, if you're keen, you can check out the link on the PLUSSOUND thread, and, as always, I hope you enjoy. Cheers!
> 
> ​


And they are best looking cables. That shielding that lets the wires glitter just screams luxury.


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Still in doubt between PlusSound Exo silver+gold and HanSound Aegis, but maybe I’ll get both


----------



## tim0chan

Xinlisupreme said:


> Still in doubt between PlusSound Exo silver+gold and HanSound Aegis, but maybe I’ll get both


Han sound aegis sounds warmer, slightly darker, the silver gold is smoother but brighter and sounds "faster" if that makes any sense


----------



## Xinlisupreme

tim0chan said:


> Han sound aegis sounds warmer, slightly darker, the silver gold is smoother but brighter and sounds "faster" if that makes any sense


Thank you very much, PlusSound looks like i'm looking for


----------



## 432789

LOL


----------



## Deferenz (Jun 11, 2021)

Xinlisupreme said:


> Still in doubt between PlusSound Exo silver+gold and HanSound Aegis, but maybe I’ll get both


I have the HanSound Aegis 8 wire. I would say it is on the warmer side of things. It presents some nice separation and layering, and gives a kind of holographic feel to the sound that I really like. I got this because I wanted something with a warm feel that I could use while I was working; something that was kind of engaging but at the same time not being something that would distract from my concentration. I find it fits the bill perfectly for this.


----------



## xenithon

Has anyone had experience with Liquid Links cables? I came across them as Elysian include the Martini cable with the Annihilator. So quite interested in that, and what looks like their flagship Evua cable.


----------



## claud W

What would be a good cable for a VE V8?


----------



## twister6

It has been a bit quiet in this thread, like the calm before the storm   Well, the kilo-buck storm is coming, starting with this review of @Eric Chong Eletech Aeneid cable


----------



## KickAssChewGum

twister6 said:


> It has been a bit quiet in this thread, like the calm before the storm   Well, the kilo-buck storm is coming, starting with this review of @Eric Chong Eletech Aeneid cable


Looking forward to the inevitable next part of the kilostorm reviews, the Centurion.


----------



## bdjul

Hello everyone. It is rather a big thread, so I would like to ask for your advice. I have 64audio A12t with hugo2. I bought labkable pandora and felt complicated. Sound became punchy with bigger soundstage but I feel sound signature changed too much. Mb you can recommend some alternatives that preserves original A12t sound? Thank you!


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

twister6 said:


> It has been a bit quiet in this thread, like the calm before the storm  Well, the kilo-buck storm is coming, starting with this review of @Eric Chong Eletech Aeneid cable


Beautiful cable.   If we view the cables like Jewelry, it's much easier to justify the cost.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

I am thinking of buying a new cable and I wanted to know if you could explain to me the notable differences between a copper cable, a silver one, gold-silver, copper-silver ... to know what type of cable I need for each type of headset


----------



## tim0chan

Mithrandir1980 said:


> I am thinking of buying a new cable and I wanted to know if you could explain to me the notable differences between a copper cable, a silver one, gold-silver, copper-silver ... to know what type of cable I need for each type of headset


plussound has the basic differences listed on their website under teh "about us" section. Though it may be a rough guide, there are always exceptions to the rule. if you find something that interests you, dont hesitate to ask about it in this thread.


----------



## Imusicman

claud W said:


> What would be a good cable for a VE V8?


I use Eletech Socrates. Great pairing IMHO


----------



## etlouis

xenithon said:


> Has anyone had experience with Liquid Links cables? I came across them as Elysian include the Martini cable with the Annihilator. So quite interested in that, and what looks like their flagship Evua cable.



I have the Martini. Build quality is superb for the price. The plugs, the sheaths, the connectors are very well done.

As for sound. Quite smooth. Since it is gold plated silver, the signature is added with a dash of warmth. Sub-bass and vocals are slightly enhanced.

Since they don't have much presence beyond Asia, I'd suspect few people have tried / reviewed them.


I'd like to know how Evua sounds too.


----------



## Ronengeller

What do you guys think about this cable as an upgrade? https://www.nobleaudio.com/accessories/p/8core35mm


----------



## tim0chan

Ronengeller said:


> What do you guys think about this cable as an upgrade? https://www.nobleaudio.com/accessories/p/8core35mm


taobao rebadge for 3 times the price. I wouldnt get any upgrade cable from noble other than the wagnus collaborations cos the rest are definitely just rebadged OEM cables.


----------



## proedros

Ronengeller said:


> What do you guys think about this cable as an upgrade? https://www.nobleaudio.com/accessories/p/8core35mm



save your money bro , ask for @doctorjuggles  to make you one

noble cables are an (overpriced) joke


----------



## Ronengeller (Aug 26, 2021)

Thanks for the replies!
I’m looking for now for a ready to ship cable, what would you recommend for pop and acoustic (often over processed) for forward mids or high mids (vocals), possibly smooth and musical and to tame the highs a bit and maybe (not sure) for a left to right soundstage and depth but not holographic and maybe (also not sure) to make space around the vocals for up to 300$? (a lot for this kind of budget probably)
I was thinking probably copper or maybe silver plated, would really like if audioquest perfect surface copper+ was made for IEM or maybe even Cardas..I saw someone modded the Cardas headphone cable for IEM 
I also don’t care for ergonomics or microphonics just the best sound that is possible at this budget


----------



## tim0chan

Ronengeller said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> I’m looking for now for a ready to ship cable, what would you recommend for pop and acoustic (often over processed) for forward mids or high mids (vocals), possibly smooth and musical and to tame the highs a bit and maybe (not sure) for a left to right soundstage and depth but not holographic and maybe (also not sure) to make space around the vocals for up to 300$? (a lot for this kind of budget probably)
> I was thinking probably copper or maybe silver plated, would really like if audioquest perfect surface copper+ was made for IEM or maybe even Cardas..I saw someone modded the Cardas headphone cable for IEM
> I also don’t care for ergonomics or microphonics just the best sound that is possible at this budget


Ready to ship is difficult, you can try plussound, they may have some. But other than that, be prepared to wait. Good things come to those who wait


----------



## rantng (Sep 12, 2021)

PW Audio August Fun cable (single crystal copper) caught my eye on Musicteck - https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/pwaudio/products/pwaudio-august-fun?variant=39584433897534

Google translated text from another website:
The pace of the times may have stopped many people, but PWAudio always moves forward, vowing to present the ideal voice to everyone!
PWAudio is another new masterpiece! August Fun will let everyone travel through time and space! Let you live in the old age, feel the past personnel scenes, live in the new Hollywood golden age, the moment when the analog signal rises, you will be able to find it in this adventure.
August Fun has a taste of the old age, is very balanced and durable, and the details will be pleasantly surprised. The atmosphere is very large. The performance of the human voice is perfect, and the high-frequency extension is also just right. You will find the sound very pleasant. At the same time, the low-frequency increase is also very obvious. The sense of rhythm renews the invisible music in every area of the brain, making you feel like you are playing on the stage, dancing with the song, and feeling the audience's applause.
Specification Plug selection (headphone end) MMCX / 2Pin 0.78mm CIEM Plug selection (source end) 2.5mm / 4.4mm Outer skin material PU Wire material Single crystal copper Wire diameter 26AWG Number of strands Single crystal copper is designed with 1 core and 1 net, 2 stranded wire body already has 4 stranded wire effect

The Titan cable looks cool as well (yeah, I’m a sucker for Navy blue; can’t swing Orpheus though) - https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/pw-audio-titan-series-moloch-iem-cable-4-wire


----------



## rantng (Sep 12, 2021)

PW Audio Titan Moloch - https://www.letsgoaudio.com/products/pw-audio-titan-series-moloch-iem-cable-4-wire

【PW Audio Titan Series】 The new PWAudio Titans Series officially debuted Western European Mythology-Ancient Greece. "Titans" are the oldest protoss in Greek mythology. They existed since the beginning of the world. They are the children of the gods of the sky and the gods of the earth. They are considered to be the oldest in the universe. Peak total.PWAudio reverberates the voice of the age of mythology, and the Titan Protoss joins the PW camp to give full play to their strengths. Titan Giant-【MOLOCH｜Moloch】 MOLOCH naturally opens up a sense of space and has meticulous musical instruments. The sound field is wide, and you can clearly see the exact position of each instrument when you close your eyes. The delicate texture is fully revealed after 100 hours, not only the left and right, but also the front and back three-dimensional sense and depth will appear one by one.

Specification
Plug selection (headphone end) MMCX / MMCX RX / 2Pin 0.78mm CIEM / Accoustone / QDC / FitEar / IPX / Sony Z1R / A2DC / ATH etc.
Plug selection (source end) 2.5mm / 3.5mm / 4.4mm
Outer skin material Soft PVWire material OOC Copper
Wire diameter 22AWG
Number of strands 4 twist


----------



## Imusicman

rantng said:


> PW Audio August Fun cable (single crystal copper) caught my eye on Musicteck - https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/pwaudio/products/pwaudio-august-fun?variant=39584433897534
> 
> Google translated text from another website:
> The pace of the times may have stopped many people, but PWAudio always moves forward, vowing to present the ideal voice to everyone!
> ...


 A bit OTT for a cable lol


----------



## rantng (Sep 12, 2021)

Imusicman said:


> A bit OTT for a cable lol


Yeah, admittedly there’s a lot of marketing and pretty language; I just thinks it looks pretty. The Titan Moloch is easier on the wallet if I just wanted a navy blue cable; blue PVC vs nylon sleeve on the August Fun. Soft PVC would probably be more ergonomic; I like nylon sleeving on cables, but the PWA ones don’t seem to be as soft.


----------



## Mithrandir1980

I recently purchased a Thieaudio Monarch and I want to try a better cable than the standard one and I would like to know if you can recommend one that will get the most out of the monarchs.  If it is possible to enhance the bass more, I like my head to shake 😂.


----------



## evolvingnoob

Hi, I’m looking for a cable to replace my ref8 on the W80, which won’t last long (broken hook, mmcx connectors starting to get loose, etc)
If there is one, a pure upgrade to the ref8 would be the best… but if not the warmth and a decent soundstage is a must, for the sound signature a little boost to the bass would be great as long as it doesn’t ruin the w80’s characteristics, and I plan to use it 7:3 outdoors so excessively heavy or thick ones are out. I don’t really feel issues with the ref8 in that aspect so somewhere near would be fine. 
I’ve tried searching all over, but came out more confused, any advice would help, thanks in advance!


----------



## jaydoc1

mvvRAZ said:


> Does anyone have experience with Beat Audio Lab? I love the look of their emerald cable


Bit of a delay reacting to this, but have been looking for feedback on Beat-audio cables which seems to be fairly scarce. I saw they make cables with the JHA 7-pin connector (again seems to be scarce by a lot of cable makers) so I jumped in a purchased their Prima Donna cable, now in Mark 2 version for my Aion Layla's.
I have to say I was floored with the quality and unique build of these cables (have a look at the base adjuster !), let alone the sound that was everything that they claimed (improved sound stage, clarity, etc).
I don't often post recommendations but I feel compelled to give a shout out to Beat-audio's Stephen Gau - great to deal with and the cable itself is a true TOTL cable in any comparison (see pic) and they deserve more exposure on Head-fi.
Just my $0.02 worth,
JD


----------



## Damz87

jaydoc1 said:


> Bit of a delay reacting to this, but have been looking for feedback on Beat-audio cables which seems to be fairly scarce. I saw they make cables with the JHA 7-pin connector (again seems to be scarce by a lot of cable makers) so I jumped in a purchased their Prima Donna cable, now in Mark 2 version for my Aion Layla's.
> I have to say I was floored with the quality and unique build of these cables (have a look at the base adjuster !), let alone the sound that was everything that they claimed (improved sound stage, clarity, etc).
> I don't often post recommendations but I feel compelled to give a shout out to Beat-audio's Stephen Gau - great to deal with and the cable itself is a true TOTL cable in any comparison (see pic) and they deserve more exposure on Head-fi.
> Just my $0.02 worth,
> JD


I’ve seen this cable in the flesh when @jaydoc1 visited and it looks even better in person. Definitely keen to try it one day


----------



## jaydoc1

Damz87 said:


> I’ve seen this cable in the flesh when @jaydoc1 visited and it looks even better in person. Definitely keen to try it one day


Yes will have to arrange that….now that we’ve got some freedom back in Melbourne.
Have had these playing a lot over the last week, and the Prima Donna’s have definitely given the Layla’s a new lease of life, with some extra clarity and a widened sound-stage compared to the stock cables. Impressed. 👍


----------



## kimdm

bvng3540 said:


> 내 좋은 친구는 약간의 카다스 와이어를 사용하고 1950 케이블을 만들 수 있으며 소리는 같지만 pw 오디오보다 훨씬 좋아 보입니다.


1950년대 DIY 라인은 어디에서 구입할 수 있습니까?


----------



## justsomesonyfan

xenithon said:


> Has anyone had experience with Liquid Links cables? I came across them as Elysian include the Martini cable with the Annihilator. So quite interested in that, and what looks like their flagship Evua cable.


got the venom (their new flagship over evua) love it, so far it's the best cable i've tried and it pairs perfectly with my wood planar iems


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

xenithon said:


> Has anyone had experience with Liquid Links cables? I came across them as Elysian include the Martini cable with the Annihilator. So quite interested in that, and what looks like their flagship Evua cable.


As far as I know, their top - Venom. Maybe someday I'll get it.


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

Ronengeller said:


> I saw someone modded the Cardas headphone cable for IEM


Yep. Romi Audio. I hope to receive this cable soon.


----------



## TheHighlander

Anyone know or test some cable of this salvation ? Looks pretty cool.

https://m.pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005003578855827.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail


----------



## shizzin

rtjoa said:


> Sorry for late reply @IgeNeLL. My Grandmaster has JH 4pin connector and I dont have an adapter to convert 2 pin to 4 pin for comparison. I hardly use my Grand Master so I lend it to my cousin.
> 
> If you like Brimar sound signature, please try Ultimate and Omni King.
> 
> ...


Can you point me to that Rudi's group? I own the grandmaster 8x and I love it but I can't seem to find much info on Brimar. I'm also looking for their iphone dongle.


----------



## singleended5863

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1576008759358483/?ref=share


----------



## shizzin

singleended5863 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1576008759358483/?ref=share


this is sick. I love my brimar cable and I'd like to get more of that stuff. I bought it by chance but damn does it sound good. I'm finding it really difficult to get any info on Brimar tho.


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Yep. Romi Audio. I hope to receive this cable soon.







Done. 
Really great cable for Traillii.


----------



## singleended5863

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Done.
> Really great cable for Traillii.


Very nice!


----------



## shizzin

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Done.
> Really great cable for Traillii.


How does a cable for cans work for iems <3


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

shizzin said:


> How does a cable for cans work for iems <3


In fact, it is quite convenient. So no problem) Use is quite comfortable. 
As for the sound, my attention during the short test was drawn to the good integrity and attention to the macro. Although the cable has a good extension on the high frequencies, and also transmits textures good on the bass and middle.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

proedros said:


> save your money bro , ask for @doctorjuggles  to make you one
> 
> noble cables are an (overpriced) joke


I can vouch for @doctorjuggles.    He's good, he's responsive, he will ship anywhere and he's just a nice guy.

Here is the Gold/Silver cable he made for my EE Legend EVO.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Done.
> Really great cable for Traillii.


Which cardas is this ?


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

IgeNeLL said:


> Which cardas is this ?


Cardas Clear Light. 
It is the same thickness as the PW Stormbreaker. And, it would seem, even the conductor is similar. However, there is a difference. Cardas is a little warmer and more emotional. Stormbreaker is more V-shaped and wider.


----------



## IgeNeLL

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Cardas Clear Light.
> It is the same thickness as the PW Stormbreaker. And, it would seem, even the conductor is similar. However, there is a difference. Cardas is a little warmer and more emotional. Stormbreaker is more V-shaped and wider.


I have heard the EE odin and the stock cable, the Storm breaker is some how too aggressive in the upper frequency but lack of density and extension in the lower range.


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

IgeNeLL said:


> I have heard the EE odin and the stock cable, the Storm breaker is some how too aggressive in the upper frequency but lack of density and extension in the lower range.


In my impression, Cardas Clear Light does not have these problems. It is not darker, but it's just more organic in general and doesn't emphasize high frequencies, paying more attention to midrange.


----------



## Sound Eq

greetings, can i ask if a silver cable shows oxidation, how would that affect the cable conductivity, as my silver cable is showing oxidation


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

Sound Eq said:


> greetings, can i ask if a silver cable shows oxidation, how would that affect the cable conductivity, as my silver cable is showing oxidation


Theoretically, the impact is bad. Because the oxide has a lower conductivity than pure metal. Practically - this is a very small part. So in practice it is hardly possible to hear the changes. In addition, silver cables often turn green. However, sometimes this is also the case for copper.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi any good palladium iem cables sold for 300 usd, or are all palladium cables extremely expensive


----------



## IgeNeLL

Sound Eq said:


> hi any good palladium iem cables sold for 300 usd, or are all palladium cables extremely expensive


It is more expensive than Gold Plated cable, 300$ is hard to get a real


----------



## justsomesonyfan

Sound Eq said:


> hi any good palladium iem cables sold for 300 usd, or are all palladium cables extremely expensive


tianwaitian cable maybe? a bit over 300 tho


----------



## justsomesonyfan

Looking to buy a 4.4mm/mmcx Liquid Links Evua if anyone's selling


----------



## PhenixS1970

If someone is looking for a new in box PWAudio First Times, have a look at my classifieds listing .


----------



## findthereal4

Has anyone tried these pure silver cables?

TItan Ag - Labkable
Dream Duet
Silver Dragon - Moon Audio

Which one gives the best improvement in terms of clarity? 

Which is the best for JH Layla?

Thanks


----------



## olddude

Silver Dragon is very clear.  It needs a warm source and a warm IEM or it will be too clear and sharp.


----------



## findthereal4

Have you tried the dream duet and the Titan Ag?


----------



## Sound Eq

findthereal4 said:


> Has anyone tried these pure silver cables?
> 
> TItan Ag - Labkable
> Dream Duet
> ...


you can buy from me adapter with bass boost, and use any after market cable

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/whyears-jhaudio-iem-cable-adapters-with-bass-boost-dial.6311/


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu (May 2, 2022)

findthereal4 said:


> Has anyone tried these pure silver cables?
> TItan Ag - Labkable
> Dream Duet
> Silver Dragon - Moon Audio


The first and second I did try.
I use Pure Silver by Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3.

And I used Labkable Samusai 3, Ag / Pt, it's good. However, it may be a little too soft at high frequencies. The sound is a bit analog.

Silver Dragon is a very good cable for its price. I made myself a "Double Dragon" - a double version of the cable. Moderately thick (I have thicker cables). Maybe the stock version can only be called a little rigid, but my version does not have this bad.
Little problem - this is not stock cable, you can't buy it from Moon Audio. So I buy 3 meter and made 1.5 m cable with double thickness.




In addition, pure silver usually gives an honest, smooth and transparent sound. Although in practice you need to see what kind of cable is meant. Some additive to silver (gold, platinum, palladium) usually shifts the sound to a slightly more analog and warm sound.


findthereal4 said:


> Which one gives the best improvement in terms of clarity?


If you need something honest and transparent, I would choose Silver Dragon. This is exactly what I liked, for example, with my EE Wraith.

Updated:
I was wrong, Titan Ag and Crystal Cable Dream Duet are still pure silver. Both companies' love of experimenting with materials misled me.


----------



## findthereal4

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> The first and second I did try. And this is not pure silver.
> Pure Silver Only Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3.
> 
> I used Labkable Samusai 3, Ag / Pt, it's good. However, it may be a little too soft at high frequencies. The sound is a bit analog.
> ...



THank you for your reply on the cables above.

Isn't the Wraith already very high sounding? Pairing it with silver dragon not overkill?


----------



## NJoyzAudio

findthereal4 said:


> Has anyone tried these pure silver cables?
> 
> TItan Ag - Labkable
> Dream Duet
> ...


4pin or 7 Pin JH Audio?
Makes a difference as not all cable makers support the 7pin connector yet.

I had the Silver Dragon from Moon Audio and it was an improvement over the stock older cable, but the newer JH Audio cable is not bad, (the newer Litz is much better than the older one), but still can be improved on
I eventually moved on to and own cable from other makers for JH Audio IEM's that improved on the Sound Quality even over the Silver Dragon
Take a look at PlusSound Audio, as they make cable for both 4pin (older connector) and 7pin and you have multiple cable choices

You don't mention what part of the audio spectrum you are trying to improve on?
JH Audio house sound (except for the Jolene's) tend to be on the darker side so many look to brighten them up, others want to change mids and that is a different cable make up
Some choices from PlusSound that I've enjoyed with JH Audio is their Gold Platted Silver, their Tri-Silver (Straight Silver, Silver Gold Alloy and Palladium platted silver) and their Palladium Platted Hybrid (Palladium Platted Silver and Palladium Platted Copper)


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

findthereal4 said:


> THank you for your reply on the cables above.
> 
> Isn't the Wraith already very high sounding? Pairing it with silver dragon not overkill?


No, Wraith have good high frequencies, but I've always had few of them. The problem is not that the IEMs are dark, they just need to be quite neat. And I like the slightly more pronounced sound of this part of the range. And here Silver Dragon turned out to be a little lighter than the stock (by the way, also pure silver) Effect Audio Cleopatra. 
DHC Symbiote Elite 19 also proved to be very good. But this is a slightly different price.


----------



## audio123

It has been so long. I hope everyone is doing well. Happy listening.

*Plussound Copper+ Review*


----------



## Sandbox2 (Jun 2, 2022)

I don't know why, but the cables I purchase just aren't very durable from Aliexpress. It seems like after a year, they need to be replaced. I was wondering if anyone can tell me the best material cable that would absolutely be most durable. For example, I'm currently using the Yin yoo 16 Core Silver Plated Cable 2 pin  3.5 Balanced Cable and it's about to fall apart near the top portion of the cable.  The cable is kinda thin so maybe that is the reason.

Are there any recommendations high end in this case that would be 100%+ more durable and will last me a lifetime?


----------



## Deferenz

Sandbox2 said:


> I don't know why, but the cables I purchase just aren't very durable from Aliexpress. It seems like after a year, they need to be replaced. I was wondering if anyone can tell me the best material cable that would absolutely be most durable. For example, I'm currently using the Yin yoo 16 Core Silver Plated Cable 2 pin  3.5 Balanced Cable and it's about to fall apart near the top portion of the cable.  The cable is kinda thin so maybe that is the reason.
> 
> Are there any recommendations high end in this case that would be 100%+ more durable and will last me a lifetime?


It will depend on your budget, but some companies that make tried and tested quality cables include:

Effect Audio 
PW Audio 
Eletech 
Plussound 
Satin Audio 
Brise Audio
Dunu
Doctorjuggles


----------



## mvvRAZ

Deferenz said:


> It will depend on your budget, but some companies that make tried and tested quality cables include:
> 
> Effect Audio
> PW Audio
> ...


Would agree with all of these except for Satin. They basically just rip off the designs of the big brands and sell them cheaper, but you can really tell the difference in quality of the hardware, wire etc. Owned one a while back and it was a disaster, when I see their new releases it's a little "which cable did this rip off" game


----------



## Deferenz

mvvRAZ said:


> Would agree with all of these except for Satin. They basically just rip off the designs of the big brands and sell them cheaper, but you can really tell the difference in quality of the hardware, wire etc. Owned one a while back and it was a disaster, when I see their new releases it's a little "which cable did this rip off" game


I had a Satin Audio cable a couple of years ago and it was fine. No problems with hardware etc. The cost of entry to the range is also a bit easier on the wallet and so may be an option for those who may want to dip their toes into the cable market.


----------



## tommir

I also have one from Satin Audio and have to say that is the best cable I paired with closed Audeze.


----------



## kiddotech

*Reddle audio Caesar *
(Tested and reviewed in kingsound store, HK.)



Not my own photo; I forgot to take a picture of it, apologies.


Specs:

Design / Special processingPrecise-MixEarphone PlugCM 2-pin, JH 4-pin, MMCXPlug2.5mm Balanced, 3.5mm, 4.4mm BalancedConductorPure Copper, Pure Gold, Pure SilverCable Length1.2MCollectionsReference series
MSRP: $16,680.00 – $16,980.00 *HKD ($2100 USD above)*

Review:
*BASED ON PAIRING WITH THE MOONDROP S8*
 Cable is soft and supple, insulation does not feel sticky. Bass is not too strong, suitable amount of heft. Miss are quite warm in general, vocals do not sound shouty or harsh. Instruments mostly sounded neutral, although in some tracks the violins could sound a bit harsh. Treble is suitable, not forward nor laid back. Technicals are very good, violin staccatos are done perfectly. Soundstage wise is normal, not too wide but acceptable. Very slight microphonics is present, but is above average. Cable is quite thin, the Y split is large and ever so slightly heavy, chin slider is right up bad, just a piece of plastic. The plug is huge, but looks durable and has a rubber/plastic coating on the gold plated jack.

Conclusion: 

The Reddle audio Caesar is a high end (potentially end game) cable that is a brilliant competitor in the cable competition, despite some slight drawbacks in terms of build quality and naturalness. I would recommend this cable for end game enthusiasts who uses a natural/slightly warm iem to balance out the slight harshness on instruments.

Rating: 
Cable quality 8.5/10 (bad chin slider and too thin)
Sound: 9/10 (slight harshness in instruments, avg soundstage)
Overall: ~9/10

Thanks for reading guys.


----------



## Keirapc (Jun 4, 2022)

mvvRAZ said:


> Would agree with all of these except for Satin. They basically just rip off the designs of the big brands and sell them cheaper, but you can really tell the difference in quality of the hardware, wire etc. Owned one a while back and it was a disaster, when I see their new releases it's a little "which cable did this rip off" game


What cable are you talking about? I had a Satin cable, and a few PS, PW, NA, EA,.. and some chinese cabes. Nothing wrong with the quality of satin hardware and wire, the hardware has a similar quality to other brands, or even better since satin offer TeCu and pure copper connectors. The wire actually is better somehow because it won't turn hard like other cables I got. Talking about this matter, I think the Inferno from Eletech looks pretty the same as satin perseus. I saw a photo of perseus a long time ago on May 2021, Audio Essence posted a photo of perseus in Otc 2021. Then 4 months later eletech release the Inferno. People who bought inferno even thought they are the same cable. I wouldn't say it is a "rip off".


----------



## tommir

Got it 2 days ago. @doctorjuggles must be some king of cable god  U12t sound more natural now and the reverbs...
​


----------



## kiddotech

I have a interesting question: is it generally accepted that we should choose a cable with a sound signature OPPOSITE to the iem/headphones? For example, you have a fairly bright iem and so you should get a slight warm cable (I’m using typical mainstream mindset of pursuing a more balanced or neutral sound)


----------



## Deezel177

kiddotech said:


> I have a interesting question: is it generally accepted that we should choose a cable with a sound signature OPPOSITE to the iem/headphones? For example, you have a fairly bright iem and so you should get a slight warm cable (I’m using typical mainstream mindset of pursuing a more balanced or neutral sound)


That’s completely up to the individual. I’ve seen cables used to tame (or alleviate) an IEM’s colourations, like the EE Phantom + Leo II combo. I’ve also seen them amplify an IEM’s strengths, like pairing the punchy-sounding Han Sound Aegis with the already-punchy VE EVE20. So, it’s ultimately up to where you want your IEM to go.


----------



## kiddotech

Anyone have ever tried a moondrop s8 with warm sounding cable combo? How did it go?


----------



## kiddotech

*PW audio First TimeS*





Specs:

Jacket Material: soft PVC and Morandi dark blue nylon jacket
Conductor Material: Copper
Conductor Gauge: 26.5AWG
Number of Conductors: 4

•New flagship of flagship series.
•Base on Orpheus cable structure as the cable design.
•Use a new type of copper as a conductor which we studied for about 9 months for testing and recording a result.
•Sound natural with details, good dynamic with enchanting vocals and a big soundstage like an open headphone.



Sound synopsis: 

Warm, fairly neutral but very slightly towards the dark side. Bass is on point and well portrayed, punch is there while it’s not too boomy or too bassy; I’d describe the sound of the bass on this cable to be just right. Make vocals are thick and smooth, while female vocals are never shouty or harsh. I’m my opinion it kind of tames the 3k peak of some ‘weeb tuning’ iems like the moondrop s8. Treble is again smooth but not diminished at any way, also diminishes potential harshness of treble. Hotel California’s guitar harmonic at around 3:00 was tamed but just enough to keep it natural. It maintains the sparkle or brilliant treble extension of the moondrop s8. 



Technicals:

This is where in my opinion the cable shines. The instrumental separation is super strong that I could very easily pinpoint where the instruments are and which instruments play on which side, even on poorly mixed tracks. Soundstage is wide, depth and height is above average but not as exaggerated as the width 



Cable build/ quality:

The knitting is fairly loose and the texture of the cable feels cheap. The splitter is made of metal, hence noticeably heavy and the chin slider is quite stiff. The flexibility is average, and if feels like it’s gonna deform if I bend the cable even very slightly. The plug is quite heavy than average also. One thing I liked about the design is that it specifies the cable’s serial number, and demo products would be labelled as ‘demo!’ On one side of the splitter. This could effectively prevent resellers selling used demo cables to customers. But still, I didn’t like the build quality too much. 



Conclusion: 

This cable really excels in terms of both tonality and technical performances, just unfortunately the build quality isin’t on par with the sonic performance (IMO). This cable is suitable to be paired with fairly neutral to bright iems to tame down the 3k peak and some sibilance. If you want flagship sounding cables, make this be in your shortlist.



Rating:

Sonic performance: 9.5/10 (vocals could be slightly more present, but I’m nitpicking here)

Cable build: 8/10 (made of high quality materials but I didn’t like the loose knitting and the relatively heavy splitter and plug)

Final grade: 9/10 (cable texture and quality is definitely bugging me)


----------



## urs

Dear All,
I’m sort of a “New Comer” to the world of High End IEMs and I’m toying with the idea of adding some suitable cables to my IEM collection. 
My two primary models are _Tia FOURTE & Custom ODIN_, and secondary a Vision Ears Elysium.

My special requirement is that I’m not using my gear in mobile mode, but only stationary. Hence all my connectors from the HP-Amp have to be 4-pin XLR/balanced, and should be about 3 meter / 10 feet in length. 
Needless to say that this does NOT make any cable cheap to start with….

At the moment I’m not urgently   in buying mode, _but I’m just following the discussions and suggestions presented here in this thread._

Regards

Urs


----------



## Edric Li (Aug 4, 2022)

What are the go-to cables for a dark, warm, full-bodied and bassy sound for the different brands? I heard that EA Leo II is a good bass cable. Any other recommendations? Thanks!


----------



## NaittsirK

Edric Li said:


> What are the go-to cables for a dark, warm, full-bodied and bassy sound for the different brands? I heard that EA Leo II is a good bass cable. Any other recommendations? Thanks!


Perhaps Eletech Socrates might be what you are looking for


----------



## fiascogarcia

Edric Li said:


> What are the go-to cables for a dark, warm, full-bodied and bassy sound for the different brands? I heard that EA Leo II is a good bass cable. Any other recommendations? Thanks!


Having had both, I think the Cleopatra reaches a little bit deeper into the sub bass than the Leo II.  And it all depends on how much you are interested in paying.  In every brand, their mid priced cables should include a copper cable that one would presume would be a starting point for selecting a warmer signature.  Plus Sound Audio, for example, offers their cables with copper, tri-copper, silver or gold plated copper, etc., and their website provides a brief description of what each composition provides soundwise. Often times, the same holds true for high end cables as well.  Eletech just came out with the Ode to Laura cable, which sounds like it would provide a warm analog sound along with the detail that you would want in the upper registers.
Ode to Laura review by Twister6
I use a PW Audio First Times, that similarly provides more of a warm analog yet detailed flavor. 
Ultimately, the level of warmth and bass is driven by the iem you select, with the cable making a much smaller impact. IMO


----------



## fiascogarcia

urs said:


> Dear All,
> I’m sort of a “New Comer” to the world of High End IEMs and I’m toying with the idea of adding some suitable cables to my IEM collection.
> My two primary models are _Tia FOURTE & Custom ODIN_, and secondary a Vision Ears Elysium.
> 
> ...


IEM's typically aren't used with that length of cable and/or connector plug.  If resale is of any concern to you, you might consider getting a standard 1.2 or 1.5m cable with a 4.4mm balanced plug, with an additional long interconnect cable with a 4.4mm female and 4pin XLR male.......Just in case you ever decide to go portable with your iems, or want to sell the cable with your iems.  Just a thought.


----------



## urs (Aug 4, 2022)

Fiascogarcia,

Exactly what I’m currently doing: Some short cables are on the way.   with a 2.5 mm balanced plug & adapter cables.... just for the sake of it

_I know that I’m a sort of a "lone wolf" with my stationary application of IEM’s…. _

Regards

Urs


----------



## honeyjjack

Edric Li said:


> What are the go-to cables for a dark, warm, full-bodied and bassy sound for the different brands? I heard that EA Leo II is a good bass cable. Any other recommendations? Thanks!


----------



## twister6

Edric Li said:


> What are the go-to cables for a dark, warm, full-bodied and bassy sound for the different brands? I heard that EA Leo II is a good bass cable. Any other recommendations? Thanks!



Just covered it in my review, Eletech Ode to Laura triple-copper cable.


----------



## Edric Li (Aug 4, 2022)

twister6 said:


> Just covered it in my review, Eletech Ode to Laura triple-copper cable.


Thanks! Was reading this one. Would love to hear your opinion on Aeneid vs Laura vs Socrates vs Fortitude.

My last cable was a gold-plated silver (Nobunaga Labs Supreme). Liked how it boosted mid bass and lower mids. Disliked its lack of subbass and a weird artificial-ness in the  midrange and soundstage.


----------



## Suyang

Edric Li said:


> What are the go-to cables for a dark, warm, full-bodied and bassy sound for the different brands? I heard that EA Leo II is a good bass cable. Any other recommendations? Thanks!


Hi Edric,

The sound signature that you are looking for more like a Copper cable could deliver, Leo II is a great all rounder cable, but not delivering warm and bassy sounding.

You may consider the copper material made cable, from EA, we have recently launched Signature Series, you may check out Ares S and Eros S Which both give what you are looking for.

Suyang


----------



## Edric Li

This aftermarket cable thing would have been so much easier if everyone just offers angled plugs. Imagine looking at the the stock cables of major flagship IEMs like IE900, Xelento, IEX1, Z1R, SE846, A8000, UE18, JH Layla, who all came with angled plugs, and say yeah no we are gonna use a straight plug that is triple the size.

Cable thickness can't be an excuse when this exist. I would have purchased the 1960s on the spot back in 2016 if not for its gigantic straight plug. But then I remembered I'd have to go through the trouble of reterminating it, and take a huge hit in resale market. 

Ughhh


----------



## gryphonos

Sound Eq said:


> hi any good palladium iem cables sold for 300 usd, or are all palladium cables extremely expensive



You could have a look at the "Martini" made by Liquid Links. It's about $ 349,- .

I'm thinking about this one as well, but have no clue which IEM I could pair it with.


----------



## Mangodango369

gryphonos said:


> You could have a look at the "Martini" made by Liquid Links. It's about $ 349,- .
> 
> I'm thinking about this one as well, but have no clue which IEM I could pair it with.


Palladium coated Silver + Gold coated Copper sounds interesting, I know that cool ass materials like palladium and gold help give lows and mids a smoother tonality. Let me know if you manage to find a good pairing. for me I matched my gold plated silver Chiron by effect audio with my VE8.


----------



## Edric Li (Aug 27, 2022)

Is it just me or do these cables look literally identical?

Effect Audio Ares S
Liquid Links Conti
FiftyStrings MQ3 Pro


----------



## Marat Sar

Does anyone have experience with beat audio Orbital Saga? I've heard it's Big in Japan, but google doesn't give any English language impressions. I'm kinda curious about it. Beat audio cables look gorgeous.


----------



## fiascogarcia

Edric Li said:


> Is it just me or do these cables look literally identical?
> 
> Effect Audio Ares S
> Liquid Links Conti
> FiftyStrings MQ3 Pro


Most pure copper unsheathed cables pretty much look identical to me.  The stranding of other metals into the cable is what begins to give them a more unique look. IMO


----------



## Dimitris Morfopoulos

Hello there guys.
 I have 64audio A18s IEMS and i use them with rupert neve designs RNHP headphone amp.  I am proffesional musician and singer so i use my in ears and amp both live gigs and studio.. i wanna upgrade my crappy stock 64audio cable..

first of all i must let you know that i hear big difference from cable to cable and i use mainly vovox sonorus cables for my instument and microphone

which one is good entry level cable to buy for my in ears??

thanks a lot in advance for your time

regards


----------



## bdjul (Sep 3, 2022)

Dimitris Morfopoulos said:


> Hello there guys.
> I have 64audio A18s IEMS and i use them with rupert neve designs RNHP headphone amp.  I am proffesional musician and singer so i use my in ears and amp both live gigs and studio.. i wanna upgrade my crappy stock 64audio cable..
> 
> first of all i must let you know that i hear big difference from cable to cable and i use mainly vovox sonorus cables for my instument and microphone
> ...


Try to examine pwaudio cables. IMHO they have good synergy


----------



## chezzer

fiascogarcia said:


> Most pure copper unsheathed cables pretty much look identical to me.  The stranding of other metals into the cable is what begins to give them a more unique look. IMO


If you don't want to pay extortionate amounts of money for what essentially amounts to the same thing perhaps you could try
Cosmic cables from here in the UK, if you talk to Ian you can pretty much have the cable exactly how you want it at comparatively a very reasonable price


----------



## Dimitris Morfopoulos

chezzer said:


> If you don't want to pay extortionate amounts of money for what essentially amounts to the same thing perhaps you could try
> Cosmic cables from here in the UK, if you talk to Ian you can pretty much have the cable exactly how you want it at comparatively a very reasonable price


thank you very much i just sent an email

i have also sent emails before somedays to effect audio , to pw audio and plus sound.. no one answer me back yet…


----------



## endless402

whatsapp  PW Audio...emailing never works


----------



## chezzer

chezzer said:


> If you don't want to pay extortionate amounts of money for what essentially amounts to the same thing perhaps you could try
> Cosmic cables from here in the UK, if you talk to Ian you can pretty much have the cable exactly how you want it at comparatively a very reasonable price


I sincerely doubt that you didn't get a reply from Ian


----------



## Hunterua (Sep 23, 2022)

Hi everyone, interesting Vulture cable from CEMA, maybe someone listened? https://a.aliexpress.com/_EJNhtkn


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 28, 2022)

My beloved Aure Audio Ringo's with their brand new, and best friend so far :





The Aaw Aoraki is a hell of a cable ! 😎

https://www.null-audio.com/products/aoraki-up-occ-cryo-platinum-hybrid-headphone-iem-cable

Completely agree with their claims.

This is the x4 version (x8 too pricey).

Pure silver and gold alliage, palladium plated... with a pure platinum core. Litz type 5.

Very good ergonomics, no microphonics at all. Very good construction : robust but elegant. It is also a thin cable despite its 24 awg (the litz construction and braiding are very tight).

A must have. 👆

Bass cannon and just top definition, resolution, refinement (even a certain sophistication), dynamics, transients, tones, silences, holography..... 🙏👏👍

I just don't understand how it is not more considered and cited, because *it's an absolute top dog out there*.

I find the Headfonics review (https://headfonics.com/aaw-aoraki-review/) very... careful, cautious... even _conservative _Lol 😁😅

It's is not at all a "calm" cable. Pure adrenaline, and very open. Really faultless. 👏


----------



## DaveStarWalker

Hunterua said:


> Hi everyone, interesting Vulture cable from CEMA, maybe someone listened? https://a.aliexpress.com/_EJNhtkn


I would be very interested by the answers...   

All the Cema cables I have listened to (Tianwaitian, Palace, Pipa), are very good.


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 28, 2022)

marcusd said:


> Fresh review on a new silver/gold & palladium cable from AAW, the Aoraki. This one really opens up the low-end for bass lovers
> 
> https://headfonics.com/aaw-aoraki-review/


Hi Marcus,

I have read your review with attention.

I will say I am 90% agree, but... for the last 10% (I guess 😂)... 

This cable is just incredibly... right, tones wise, accurate, very quick transients and with dynamite dynamics capacities. The resolution and definition are very high too. Among the very best I have experienced. All in a natural way. Best of my bag of compliments. 

In a few words, they are one of the best iem cables I know, at any prices. 😅

So, I was very surprised by the relatively poor grade they received (84). The test is very good indeed, but the final score does not reflect it in my opinion. 🤔

I know some of the fellow cables which are best noted, and... Well... 🙄

And yes, the low end is very solid and powerful, but I don't find it is the main feature or flavor, of this cable. 

However, it was your review, and reading through the lines, that made me try them, and finally buy them. So a big thank you. 😎

My 2 cts.🙂


----------



## Somatic

What is the best, lowest gauge pure copper IEM cable in the market. MMCX. Will be using for the A8000 ... thank you.


----------



## DaveStarWalker

Somatic said:


> What is the best, lowest gauge pure copper IEM cable in the market. MMCX. Will be using for the A8000 ... thank you.


DUNU blanche. 👍


----------



## Somatic

DaveStarWalker said:


> DUNU blanche. 👍


Thanks but looking for a high quality copper cable.


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 29, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Thanks but looking for a high quality copper cable.


Really, this is the best pairing I know.

The DUNU blanche is very smooth, liquid, rounded, rich (tones). Not at all bright or harsh. All the contrary. 

Perfect match with the A8000 (I have auditioned them, connected with each other 😉). Really. 👍

Hum.... Pure copper. Astral Acoustics Pulse? 🤔

But I haven't listening to it yet... So... I really don't know. 🙁

Ste cu W16 maybe ? 🤔... But the same. Only conjections... 😐


----------



## Somatic (Sep 29, 2022)

DaveStarWalker said:


> Really, this is the best pairing I know.
> 
> The DUNU blanche is very smooth, liquid, rounded, rich (tones). Not at all bright or harsh. All the contrary.
> 
> Perfect match with the A8000 (I have auditioned them, connected with each other 😉). Really. 👍


Thanks. How would you compare it to stock cable for the A8000? The stock cable is a OFC silver coated cable from Junkosha. Thanks again.

Edit: Should I always go 4.4mm balanced and use an adapter when needed? Any adapters you recommended? Will be using 1/4inch with the Ferrum Oor ... but eventually might get a DAP ...


----------



## DaveStarWalker

Somatic said:


> Thanks. How would you compare it to stock cable for the A8000? The stock cable is a OFC silver coated cable from Junkosha. Thanks again.
> 
> Edit: Should I always go 4.4mm balanced and use an adapter when needed? Any adapters you recommended? Will be using 1/4inch with the Ferrum Oor ... but eventually might get a DAP ...


I find the A8000 stock cable very generic. Thin. Bright. In comparison to.

And the blanche have a great advantage :

https://penonaudio.com/dunu-blanche.html

Multi plug system. 😎❤️👍


----------



## Somatic

DaveStarWalker said:


> I find the A8000 stock cable very generic. Thin. Bright. In comparison to.
> 
> And the blanche have a great advantage :
> 
> ...


Hmmm seems Out of Stock ...


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu

DaveStarWalker said:


> And the blanche have a great advantage :
> 
> https://penonaudio.com/dunu-blanche.html
> 
> Multi plug system. 😎❤️👍


I agree, Dunu Blanche is a really good inexpensive cable.


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 29, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Hmmm seems Out of Stock ...


screw.... 😭😳

Maybe aliexpress? 🤔

https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/10...p_ext_f={"sku_id":"-1"}&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite

But it is more expensive (no problem, this is reliable... But the actual price...) 😳😢

Possibly a very good move : 

https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/10...lgo_pvid=d4e4d17b-f47f-4c2a-9f4d-658331ba399e

This is really very good. I know well the late "no pro" version... 👍

Maybe you should try this :

https://www.arcticcables.com/

I want, personally, to try a reference here, for instance :

https://www.arcticcables.com/ac-store/Cross-Reference-Series-p474234299

But I haven't done it yet... So... I think this is very good, but at this time, this is just a feeling... 🧐

The A8000 are a hell of a top product. But, very demanding...


----------



## Somatic

DaveStarWalker said:


> screw.... 😭😳
> 
> Maybe aliexpress? 🤔


Yeah. eBay has it too. I think a little over MSRP. Just afraid that it’s a fake and not real.


----------



## DaveStarWalker

Somatic said:


> Yeah. eBay has it too. I think a little over MSRP. Just afraid that it’s a fake and not real.


I don't think so. 🤔

These are old stocks, as I think. 

Unfortunately, DUNU only makes short time release with cables (this is not their main business). The same with FiiO. 

But, how to really know, but to listen to it... 😴😞


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 30, 2022)

I am thinking about your quest, Somatic. A good move imao : Nostalgia Audio. 😉👍


----------



## DaveStarWalker

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/nostalgia-audio-olorin.24988/reviews

And :

https://www.aboutaudio.org/nostalgi...rwen offers an,the bass extension and density.

But I haven't personally auditioned them...


----------



## Somatic

Hmmm I see. I was also looking at the pure silver from arctic cables as well. So your thoughts is a good pure silver will add more micro details and smooth out the highs nicely instead of a good copper?


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 30, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Hmmm I see. I was also looking at the pure silver from arctic cables as well. So your thoughts is a good pure silver will add more micro details and smooth out the highs nicely instead of a good copper?


Yes.

Not really "add" (no cable is adding something), but no restrain the Final natural capacities. 

A real good pure silver cable is very different than a silver plated copper for instance. Even the best out there. More smooth, refined, far more less colored, no harsh treble, etc.... 

But it is also true the A8000 are very demanding.

So without a listening, blind purchase....☹️

But, but, but... 🤔😉

My 2 cts. 👍


----------



## marcusd

DaveStarWalker said:


> Hi Marcus,
> 
> I have read your review with attention.
> 
> ...






8.4 is reader's score or the score given by the readers when they hit the slider


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Sep 30, 2022)

marcusd said:


> 8.4 is reader's score or the score given by the readers when they hit the slider


OK, because this is not my rating at all. 😂👍

Last Saturday, a little one on one against a EA Eros II. No match at all (clarity, tones, dynamics, transients, etc... The EA seems to be "rounded", soft and colored in direct comparison, not very faithful or correct, all things being equal). 

Epic listening this evening, in France, Paris. 🇫🇷

And thanks a lot for your reviews, they are really informative, and pretty accurate (for the products I know). 😎👏

But about the reader's ratings, well..... 🤔... No comments 🤫😇


----------



## DaveStarWalker

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/plussound-audio-thread.701384/page-110#post-17201894


----------



## DaveStarWalker

Best match ever with the Aure Ringo's :









Mystery cable... And very rare and... exotic.💎👍

It is, it is? 😋😛


----------



## Amadeo Nospherathu




----------



## DaveStarWalker (Nov 9, 2022)

DaveStarWalker said:


> Best match ever with the Aure Ringo's :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So? 😝

OK... Rhapsodio Graphene. 😎👌👍

With my Ringo's = P-E-R-F-E-C-T.... 💪👉✌️

And, yes, a Plussound adapter, Plated Palladium Hybrid (PPH) inside... 😉


----------



## DaveStarWalker

More to come, a relative and recent comparison against very big guys... 😎💪

Code 51 x4,1950's x2, Aoraki x4, GPS x8, TC x8, Graphene... etc.😍

Not to mention :

ALL IS ABOUT SYNERGY.🤔

Of course each cable has its own qualities (resolution, transparency, etc) and tuning (clean, dark, edgy, etc), to varying degrees, but... In the end, always think in "system".🧐

This is the big lesson of my recent tests. 👍


----------



## DaveStarWalker

From a french friend of mine :





ThieAudio Monarch mk2 and Aaw Aoraki mk2 x8 (rare !!! 😎✌️).

(my late 😢) Noble Kaiser Encore and (the same ! 😅) Plussound GPS x8 (rare too !!! 😎👍).

Wouah ! Killing pairings, absolute spitzenklasse. 😅✌️😎🎊👍....


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Nov 11, 2022)

Hello friends,

So, recently, I've been busy trying to find THE right cable for my beloved Aure Ringo (https://forum.tellementnomade.org/viewtopic.php?f=278&t=30335), in particular, and my recently purchased Aure Elixir (https://forum.tellementnomade.org/viewtopic.php?f=278&t=27746). 
Sorry, French inside... 

*Preliminary introduction...*

Interesting for the latter, because the feedbacks that were made at the time were rather mixed, or rather "polarized" between: "hum, well...", and "bravissimo, endgame, etc"... I'm on the side of the latter, "endgame" tendency   ...
And when reading the reviews, one realizes that some folks found the low register were very powerful and marked (this is my case), and others not at all. Or on the contrary, the treble was brilliant or even aggressive, and others the opposite (I'm on the "brilliant" side, but not "aggressive"). To summarise.
Now, with these Elixir, it happened to me, to another forumer and myself an interesting anecdote...
About a month ago, we had a little mini meeting between friends. Listening to each other, and I have my Elixir in my bag.
Some people listen to them and find them hyper energetic, powerful... in short, what I hear too.
But another participant listened to them with his SP2000... and tells me that there is no medium, that the listening is flat, etc... Big misunderstanding on my part. I listen to my turn, and yes, it was really mediocre, bad in fact, to the point of not recognizing these uiems that however, I absolutely love with my m1s DAP... :-O
On the other hand, I make them listen with my m1s and there... "everything goes back in order" ....
And for the cable ditto, these Elixir (to get the best out of them) seem to be quite complicated to pair up....

Absolutely *MAGICAL *pairing with the Plussound Tricopper x8... But I have tried other pairings (especially cables that work very well with the Aure Ringo), always with less success... aaw Aoraki x4 (excellent, but not as good as the TC8... timbres, underpinning, texture), Rhapsodio Graphene x4 (Ultimate with the Ringo, just excellent with the Elixir... little lack of substance...), Plussound GPS x8 (too much bass... medium in retreat... lack of brilliance... whereas this cable is excellent with the Ringo... |-) ).

And you don't need to have golden ears... it's immediately noticeable. And not at all related to the price, the most expensive one here (GPS) giving the worst results ("relatively to", and even in itself...).

Interesting, isn't it? 

*Aure Ringo and various high end cables...*

The Ringo's are quite complex to match. Because they have rather luxury tastes (although... read more), also because of their inner qualities (exceptional naturalness, notably of the timbres, of their tonal balance, of their dynamic gradation, great definition, resolution and transparency, but natural, subtle, very classy, refined, treble that runs high but without being put forward, always with these same qualities of naturalness, maturity...).

In short, it's challenging to find _THE_ beast...

That's why what follows takes them as a basis, accompanied by Canals Works "Cat's paw" tips, Gel, Narrow bore, and my faithful Aune M1s DAP, balanced output, low gain, "fast" filter.

*CAUTION: ALWAYS THINK IN TERMS OF A WHOLE SYSTEM !!!!* 

So what is valid according to this system, may not be valid for you.... A cable never works on its own, and even if it can claim certain objective qualities (I insist; for example an extreme definition / resolution, whatever the systems... ; in other words, someone who finds a 51 dark and bloated... there is a problem somewhere and/or it is a bad copy !!! )

*Effect Audio Code 51 (x4)*

So this is this product: https://www.headfonia.com/effect-audio-code-51-review/. Gold plated silver / Silver and gold alloy / Palladium plated silver hybrid. Litz type not specified.

Well, it doesn't work very well, against all expectations and to my great surprise I must say (read on, in relation to the metals used, compared to other products that work very well)... 

We have a very bright, too clear restitution, passed to an electronic microscope super, uber, mega detailed, not natural for a penny... and with a rather timid low register ! Really surprising... Hyper dry and fast transients. Good textures but it is very, very, very clear. Clearly... too clear. 

*PW 1950's (x4 ? I think so... ; coaxial)*

So it's this product: https://www.mtmtaudio.com/en-fr/pro...ries-the-1950s-headphone-upgrade-cable-4-wire. Pure copper, Cardas origin if I'm not mistaken, "clear" series (the HDG from Cardas). Coaxial structure.

Well, it just doesn't work... :-? Poor listening, er... not good at all.

*Plussound GPS (x8)*

So it's this product: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/plussound-exo-gps.23745/reviews. Pure gold plated silver, Litz type 6... Quite complex structure.

Works very well with the Ringo, especially in terms of richness and naturalness of timbre, very spacious soundstage but more in depth than in width, lots of texture, especially at the bottom end with a very powerful and deep bass. Human voices and overall instruments are absolutely superb and realistic. Highs that flow but very soft. On the other hand, lack of brilliance especially at the top, transients a little soft despite a very important dynamic (openess, gradation). Lack of bite, of commitment. It is a sumptuous listening but way too soft...

*Plussound Tricopper (x8)*

So it is this product: https://www.headfonia.com/review-plussound-x8-tri-copper/. Complex structure : pure copper, silver and gold plated copper, Litz type 6...

The result is absolutely excellent, even exceptional. Just a little "dark" (relatively to), notably with a slightly attenuated, but still very present (low treble; and then this is attenuated). Excellent dynamics, lots of impact, power, notes's weight. A lot of substance and presence, all registers and especially for the human voices (women and men). Vast sound stage, less lateralized than the GPS, but deeper. On the other hand, lack of precision in particular in the lower part of the spectrum. Separation in particular is excellent but not exceptional. Also, there is plenty of air, but it's still the materiality, the texture and the weight of the timbres that we will remember the most...

*Aaw Aoraki (x4)*

So it is this product: https://headfonics.com/aaw-aoraki-review/. Again, a complex structure: silver/gold alloy conductor, palladium plated with a pure platinum core (!) Litz type 5 wiring...

Exceptional result, transparency, definition, resolution, dynamics, openness, 3D, vivacity... Maybe a little dry on the transients, and the underpinning could be a little more "planted". But what a talent!... Close to perfection with the Ringo.

*Cema Tianwaitian (x2, coaxial)*

So this product: https://m.fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001446578292.html. Complex structure : silver/gold alloy conductor, copper, coaxial palladium plating. Litz not specified...

Passes for a "Code 51 like"... yes and no... First because it works quite well and not to say excellently, with the Ringo, like a... Plussound tri-copper but brighter, especially at the top high end, and less "heavy" at the bottom bass end... Compared to the Code 51, apart from the pairing issue, the definition and resolution are much lower with the TWT... Sorry. 

*Rhapsodio graphene (x4)*

This is a rare and exotic product : https://www.spill.hk/headphones/Rhapsodio-Graphene-review/. Again, complex structure: silver (98%)/gold (2%) alloy conductor, graphene plated copper. Litz not specified...

Very simple with the Ringo: Perfection. 

*OC Studio Frozen (x4)*

So this product: https://www.hifi-portable.com/fr/ca...riginal-cable-frozen-cable-haut-de-gamme.html ... range.html. Silver/gold alloy structure, Litz type 2 (relatively uncomplicated structure)...

Excellent. Just excellent. Close to the Aoraki and Graphene, but more schematic restitution (timbres, dynamics), less nuanced and less "extreme", "advanced" rather in its sound and musical characteristics (for example definition, transparency, finesse...). But really excellent. A (very) big and good surprise, which I did not expect at all at such a level. Moreover, very nice construction, finish...

*Conclusion ?*

Here are a few cables that I tried with the Aure Ringo, until I reached my Holy Grail (Rhapsodio Graphene, as you can read... ).

But you can also see that the results can be completely... surprising, even unexpected. 

In particular in relation to this list (incomplete; also Cema Palladium = okay, but just "good"...; Cema Pipa = quite good indeed...) to the 2 "tenors" seen as being among the best, and which are the Code 51 and 1950's = with the Ringo's, it does not work... At all (1950's), or just partially (code 51)...

These 2 elite and very well regarded cables are also, by far, the most expensive cables on this list (not exhaustive: I've kept the most striking products).
*It's all about synergy. *

That's all folks


----------



## DaveStarWalker

Penon Totem with my Aure Elixir : incredible matching...🤯

G.O.A.T. level... 😎

More to come...


----------



## DaveStarWalker (Nov 28, 2022)

*Aure Audio Elixir and Penon Totem cable.  *




Against all odds, at least mine...

I felt that I could go further than with the Tricopper x8, with these uiems. However, I could not find "better" than the TC8 (just different, and rather less good so to speak... less texture, weight of the notes...) But... hell yeah !!

Maybe the best coupling between a cable and uiems I've heard so far (in my top 3 anyway, next to the Ringo + Rhapsodio Graphene, and FiiO FH9 + their pure silver stock cable) :

The Totem cable:

https://penonaudio.com/penon-totem.html

The very last version is much better (let's say more discreet ) for the look. Imo. Besides the interchangeable jack plugs.

However, the version I have on test (thanks Lafeuil ) fits aesthetically almost perfectly with the Elixir (a sign ? ).

Some reviews :

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/penon-totem.24688/
https://iem.reviews/2021/01/10/penon-totem/
(...)

After, I do not prejudge what it can be with other iems, but with the Elixir, it is...

...*G.O.A.T level*... 

Cable from "enough" to "very" rigid (much more than the Cema Tianwaitian by the way... ), but the ear loops are really very well made, comfortable and well designed... in any case perfectly adapted to the shell and fit of these Aure Elixir.

Conclusion: the earpieces are pushed and wedged into my ears. Even when head-banging, they don't move at all.

So here is to the few owners here of these Elixir. If you see looming in PA a PenonTotem cable, throw you on it, you  will be uh... I think... _perplexed _(in a good way).


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## DaveStarWalker

To meditate :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ge-all-welcome.957426/page-2751#post-17270173


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## pradiptacr7

Effect Audio this, Plussound that... Peter Wong be like Hold my fookin Dual connector.
1. PW Audio Monile ft. 1960s Shielding + P-EAR-S SH2
2. PW Audio Monile External Shielding Version + Lark Studio LSX Sp. Ed.
.
Both 4 Shared Silver + Copper with additional Shielding


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## IgeNeLL

Master piece


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## Amadeo Nospherathu

IgeNeLL said:


> Master piece


Crystal Cable?


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## IgeNeLL

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Crystal Cable?


Yes, Dream Duet from Crystal Cable


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## Yatharth (Monday at 10:39 AM)

(Deleted)


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## Lado75

mvvRAZ said:


> Oooh mb
> 
> yeah they are - huge waiting line at the moment though  and come to think of it I have the silver and black widow from toxic coming, not the Medusa - mb


How did you like the Silver Widow?


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## Yatharth (Monday at 12:57 PM)

If I purchase a $2800 IEM cable for my IER-Z1R like this one,will I notice improvement in sound quality in comparison to my IER-Z1R’s stock cable in my audio setup [Chord Hugo 2 (using optical) + SMSL PO100 Pro + MacBook Air (using Roon 2.0 software)] Also,can someone recommend a better IEM cable (or the best IEM cable in the world) than this one for my IER-Z1R?


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## jlbrach

not 2800 dollars worth


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## proedros

worth if you crap money from your anus

otherwise yeah i agree ,  3K for a cable is laughing matter


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## Hunterua

Yatharth said:


> If I purchase a $2800 IEM cable for my IER-Z1R like this one,will I notice improvement in sound quality in comparison to my IER-Z1R’s stock cable in my audio setup [Chord Hugo 2 (using optical) + SMSL PO100 Pro + MacBook Air (using Roon 2.0 software)] Also,can someone recommend a better IEM cable (or the best IEM cable in the world) than this one for my IER-Z1R?


Try this one, looks like the endgame to me but still not cheap to me, not only the alloys chosen for the timbre, but the geometry is thought out to minimize distortion
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003936634920.html
The price is lower for subscribers


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## jlbrach (Tuesday at 4:41 PM)

proedros said:


> worth if you crap money from your anus
> 
> otherwise yeah i agree ,  3K for a cable is laughing matter


that is quite an image you conjure up


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## paradoxper

jlbrach said:


> not 2800 dollars worth


It might get you to 30% of the performance of Abyss.


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## Yatharth

paradoxper said:


> It might get you to 30% of the performance of Abyss.


Isn’t IER-Z1R on the same level as Abyss? Are you saying that Abyss offers better sound quality than IER-Z1R? I don’t think that’s true…


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## paradoxper

Yatharth said:


> Isn’t IER-Z1R on the same level as Abyss? Are you saying that Abyss offers better sound quality than IER-Z1R? I don’t think that’s true…


The Z1R can compare to other IEM's and lower open back. It can't compete with the best full size offerings.


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## Yatharth

paradoxper said:


> The Z1R can compare to other IEM's and lower open back. It can't compete with the best full size offerings.


Oh…


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## marcus2704

For anyone interested the *Code 51* cable I bought last week from another Head-Fier is *UP FOR SALE* as I don't feel its the best pairing with my EVO which for me suits copper better.  I find the treble a little too aggressive, for context it is also partnered with a Cayin N6ii DAP which is itself a lively player, I think the combination isnt right for me with the EVO.   I think I made an expensive mistake as I had already read the recommendations not to partner an EVO with a silver cable, but I went ahead regardless.   Should I part with the EVO, no doubt the Code 51 will be a brilliant cable for another top-tier IEM but I have no intention of doing that just yet.

Which leads me onto what to replace this cable with.  I am speaking to DoctorJuggles about some options, and my initial thought was to look at the 4-Wire Cardas Clear Light cable he makes which is a clone of the 1960s, a cable reputed to work well with the Empire Ears EVO.  I lean towards a warm, exciting, sound with good bass and away from a neutral sound.   I wondered if anyone has heard this pairing, or perhaps cables that work well with the EE EVO that I should take a look at?


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## Hunterua (Yesterday at 4:40 PM)

marcus2704 said:


> For anyone interested the *Code 51* cable I bought last week from another Head-Fier is *UP FOR SALE* as I don't feel its the best pairing with my EVO which for me suits copper better.  I find the treble a little too aggressive, for context it is also partnered with a Cayin N6ii DAP which is itself a lively player, I think the combination isnt right for me with the EVO.   I think I made an expensive mistake as I had already read the recommendations not to partner an EVO with a silver cable, but I went ahead regardless.   Should I part with the EVO, no doubt the Code 51 will be a brilliant cable for another top-tier IEM but I have no intention of doing that just yet.
> 
> Which leads me onto what to replace this cable with.  I am speaking to DoctorJuggles about some options, and my initial thought was to look at the 4-Wire Cardas Clear Light cable he makes which is a clone of the 1960s, a cable reputed to work well with the Empire Ears EVO.  I lean towards a warm, exciting, sound with good bass and away from a neutral sound.   I wondered if anyone has heard this pairing, or perhaps cables that work well with the EE EVO that I should take a look at?


I made myself a cable out of Cardas Golden Ratio 23.5 awg conductor, including direction, with Plussound gold connectors, and to be honest, I didn't like the sound. I read that their cables need to be burned for a long time, maybe the sound has improved over time, but more than 500 hours have passed and I still don't like the sound. The sound seems harsh, lacks fluidity, at first it sounded bassy and bright, over time the sound evened out, high frequencies are quite good for copper cable, but still it sounds too tight for me. I wonder if Cardas Clear Light cables are made from the same conductor.


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## IgeNeLL

Hunterua said:


> I made myself a cable out of Cardas Golden Ratio 23.5 awg conductor, including direction, with Plussound gold connectors, and to be honest, I didn't like the sound. I read that their cables need to be burned for a long time, maybe the sound has improved over time, but more than 500 hours have passed and I still don't like the sound. The sound seems harsh, lacks fluidity, at first it sounded bassy and bright, over time the sound evened out, high frequencies are quite good for copper cable, but still it sounds too tight for me. I wonder if Cardas Clear Light cables are made from the same conductor.


Cardas Golden Ratio, what is the conductor material and is it solid or stranded. How about your source and HP/IEMS.


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## Hunterua

IgeNeLL said:


> Cardas Golden Ratio, what is the conductor material and is it solid or stranded. How about your source and HP/IEMS.


The wire is multistranded, copper litz, three different turns of different diameters in different directions, so it is called golden ratio, the wire is not flexible, my DAP and IEM in the signature https://www.hificollective.co.uk/hookup-wire/cardas/235awg.html


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## Amadeo Nospherathu

Hunterua said:


> I made myself a cable out of Cardas Golden Ratio 23.5 awg conductor, including direction, with Plussound gold connectors, and to be honest, I didn't like the sound. I read that their cables need to be burned for a long time, maybe the sound has improved over time, but more than 500 hours have passed and I still don't like the sound. The sound seems harsh, lacks fluidity, at first it sounded bassy and bright, over time the sound evened out, high frequencies are quite good for copper cable, but still it sounds too tight for me. I wonder if Cardas Clear Light cables are made from the same conductor.


Not sure but I have a Cardas Clear Light and it totally has the smoothness, analog and warmth mentioned.
Regarding the cable you mentioned - it doesn't seem to be designed for IEMs at all, so the ergonomics will suffer. Too much for an IEM where it matters.


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## Hunterua

Amadeo Nospherathu said:


> Not sure but I have a Cardas Clear Light and it totally has the smoothness, analog and warmth mentioned.
> Regarding the cable you mentioned - it doesn't seem to be designed for IEMs at all, so the ergonomics will suffer. Too much for an IEM where it matters.


I didn't find a more suitable Cardas conductor, 23,5 AWG is perfect, the thinner one was only this one ( https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/cardas-265-awg.html ), without golden ratio and in polyurethane, which I didn't like. I don't feel any warmth with my version of the cable, the warmth can also be caused by a bad dielectric which creates electrical noise, with teflon cables I never felt any warmth, but teflon is too stiff for an iem cables.


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