# Official Shmup Thread!



## Softdrink 117

So I figured since there's finally a gaming sub-forum we could get a shoot-em-up thread going. Yay!
   
  Basically just a general genre thread, without any particular focus. Favorites, stuff you're playing now, etc.
   
  Also, I think it's important to point out that this is for discussion of all shmup styles (horizontal, vertical, bullet hell, etc.), to try to avoid forum clutter. Distinguishing between these sub-genre lines isn't really significant enough to warrant independent threads (in my opinion, feel free to debate this point).
   
   
  To begin:
   
  My all-time favorite would probably be Ikaruga, for a number of reasons. I'm also a huge fan of the Touhou series, Gradius, R-type, Raiden, anything made by CAVE, and several 'doujin' works.
   
  Recently played, in no particular order:
  Alltynex Second
  Perfect Cherry Blossom
  Imperishable Night
  DoDonPachi Resurrection (iOS)
  Deathsmiles (Xbox 360, iOS)
  R-Type Final (PS2, emulated)
  Einhander (PS1 via PS3 emulation)
  A large portion of the Gradius series (exact titles forgotten at the moment)
  A fan game called Break Force made by a Flickr friend
  YGS2000
   
  Currently playing DoDonPachi DaiOuJou, Mushihime-sama, and Ikaruga.
   
   
  EDIT: Figured the Touhou/Vocaloid music thread deserved a link here. Again, this is a point open for debate.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/555595/the-touhou-and-vocaloid-music-thread


----------



## jgray91

Recently I tried my hand at this kind of game with Jamestown. It's a western made indie game on Steam. Although hard it is still very rewarding if I managed to make it through a stage. Although I don't play shmup much though. I did tried some touhou once or twice; it was one of the very earlier games. It was LOLhard for me at Normal, whereas I it was quite hard for me at Jamestown in Legendary (second last hardest difficulty). 
   
  Although I did play a lot back when I was a kid on my PlayStation. Can't remember what it's called though.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





jgray91 said:


> Recently I tried my hand at this kind of game with Jamestown. It's a western made indie game on Steam. Although hard it is still very rewarding if I managed to make it through a stage. Although I don't play shmup much though. I did tried some touhou once or twice; it was one of the very earlier games. It was LOLhard for me at Normal, whereas I it was quite hard for me at Jamestown in Legendary (second last hardest difficulty).
> 
> Although I did play a lot back when I was a kid on my PlayStation. Can't remember what it's called though.


 

 I think I've heard of that one... It's got four-player coop, right? I've heard some good things about it, if it is the one I'm thinking of.
   
  Shmups aren't really popular anymore, even in arcades. I agree that they can be very rewarding when you finally complete a stage or perfect a scoring technique, but a lot of gamers nowadays aren't interested in that kind of painstaking self-motivation.
   
  The Touhou series can be quite challenging, even for people who enjoy 'bullet hell' style shooters. I used to be pretty good at a couple of them, but I've lost a lot of my skill due to other games taking precedence.


----------



## jgray91

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> I think I've heard of that one... It's got four-player coop, right? I've heard some good things about it, if it is the one I'm thinking of.
> 
> Shmups aren't really popular anymore, even in arcades. I agree that they can be very rewarding when you finally complete a stage or perfect a scoring technique, but a lot of gamers nowadays aren't interested in that kind of painstaking self-motivation.
> 
> The Touhou series can be quite challenging, even for people who enjoy 'bullet hell' style shooters. I used to be pretty good at a couple of them, but I've lost a lot of my skill due to other games taking precedence.


 

 Yes I think what you're thinking is correct. Although I'm really sad because it only have local multiplayer. Hopefully they can implement online multiplay soon. Heck, I'd be willing to pay for it if it's in an expansion or sequel.
   
  Too bad I've never played Touhou sooner though. As the soundtrack in them are awesome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do Contra games count? I'm a huge Contra: Hard Corps freak. I'm referring to the Sega Genesis game.

Some of you may know the gimped version called Probotector, release in Europe.

Either way: Best Contra game, ever. People think the SuperNES Contra was, but I'm sure most didn't even try Hard Corps. 4 characters, multiple paths, multiple endings? YES PLEASE.




Hard Corps: Uprising, the newest non-Contra named...Contra game, lol. Was good, but didn't hold a candle to the older ones.

I've always wanted to play Shattered Soldier... never got a chance. Hopefully Sony will release it as a PS2 Classic.


As for other spaceship shooters: I still own an original black label Einhander.  LOVE IT.


----------



## Phos

For me it doesn't get any better than Radiant Silvergun.  It's strange to describe a game as being long as a positive, but Radiant Silvergun is about twice as long as most other shmups and keeps throwing new things at you for its entire length.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





jgray91 said:


> Yes I think what you're thinking is correct. Although I'm really sad because it only have local multiplayer. Hopefully they can implement online multiplay soon. Heck, I'd be willing to pay for it if it's in an expansion or sequel.
> 
> Too bad I've never played Touhou sooner though. As the soundtrack in them are awesome.


 

 Local only is weird in this era of gaming, especially for a title distributed through Steam. At the same time though, I've always felt that playing arcade games with friends can be a great social experience, whereas a lot of modern online games miss out on that kind of appeal. Maybe they're trying to tap into that aspect of it?
   
  Touhou's music is legend.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Do Contra games count? I'm a huge Contra: Hard Corps freak. I'm referring to the Sega Genesis game.
> Some of you may know the gimped version called Probotector, release in Europe.
> Either way: Best Contra game, ever. People think the SuperNES Contra was, but I'm sure most didn't even try Hard Corps. 4 characters, multiple paths, multiple endings? YES PLEASE.
> Hard Corps: Uprising, the newest non-Contra named...Contra game, lol. Was good, but didn't hold a candle to the older ones.
> ...


 

 I've never played Contra (blasphemy, I know), but from what I know of it it's similar to Metal Slug. In that case, sadly, I'd have to say it doesn't. I have no doubt that it sometimes plays similarly, but those are generally considered 'run-and-gun' titles. I really need to try the games sometime, as I've read some very interesting things about the series.
   
  As for Einhander-- YES. I too own an original copy, and play it regularly. It's one of my absolute favorite horizontal shmups, alongside R-type (I, III, and Final) and Deathsmiles. But it's really in it's own league, just like Ikaruga; it's a truly innovative shooter that has amazingly well-engineered mechanics.
   
  And some of the music and level designs are absurdly cool, as well.
  
  I've always found it very ironic that Einhander was so well received both critically and popularly, yet Square has never shown any interest in a sequel or even another entry into the genre. A real shame, in my opinion.
   
  Quote: 





phos said:


> For me it doesn't get any better than Radiant Silvergun.  It's strange to describe a game as being long as a positive, but Radiant Silvergun is about twice as long as most other shmups and keeps throwing new things at you for its entire length.


 

 I WANT TO PLAY RSG SO BADLY IT'S PAINFUL. Ikaruga is the spiritual successor, and I love that game to death. I've watched many, many Youtube superplays of RSG, and it looks like an absolute masterpiece. The Xbox live version of Radiant Silvergun was released just after I left home. I'll emulate it someday when the penalties for downloading ISO files aren't so serious (my college has absurdly strict anti-piracy and anti-IP fraud regulations to the point where a single offense could result in expulsion, and my desktop is hardwired into the school network >.<).
   
  I have to agree about length. Many shooters are too short, and although they can still be very engaging you're sometimes left wanting more.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'll chime in one for the CAVE team. CAVE hits a home run every single game. They just have that formula nailed. 
   
  Touhou of course, and pretty much every other genre out there. The genre takes #2 in my favorite genres. So...reporting in.


----------



## Roller

Great thread  Shmups are great game genre.
   
  Bullet hell type is interesting but I prefer regular shmups, like Raptor Call of Shadows and Tyrian.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'll chime in one for the CAVE team. CAVE hits a home run every single game. They just have that formula nailed.
> 
> Touhou of course, and pretty much every other genre out there. The genre takes #2 in my favorite genres. So...reporting in.


 

 As you know, I very much agree with you ;D
   
  CAVE and ZUN (the guy who's behind the Touhou series, for those unfamiliar with the games) are the only two developers I know of that consistently produce awesome shooters. I'm also a fan of Irem, who were in charge of the R-type series, but their titles are much more hit-and-miss.
   
  On the topic of CAVE, I *accidentally* beat Deathsmiles a few days ago. I'd been playing Mushihime-sama on Ultra/Hell, and switched over for a few minutes. I decided to see how far I could get on three continues at max difficulty... and then I got to the last boss. Was definitely not expecting that >.<
   

  
  Quote: 





roller said:


> Great thread  Shmups are great game genre.
> 
> Bullet hell type is interesting but I prefer regular shmups, like Raptor Call of Shadows and Tyrian.


 

 I haven't heard of either of those, actually.
   
  Some bullet hells are actually easier than 'normal' shmups-- a great example that comes to mind is Einhander, which is perfectly reasonable in terms of bullet count. But it's an incredibly difficult game, and one I still haven't beaten, let alone 1cc'ed. And I've been trying for years.
   
  It's a matter of preference, like anything else.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> I haven't heard of either of those, actually.
> 
> Some bullet hells are actually easier than 'normal' shmups-- a great example that comes to mind is Einhander, which is perfectly reasonable in terms of bullet count. But it's an incredibly difficult game, and one I still haven't beaten, let alone 1cc'ed. And I've been trying for years.
> 
> It's a matter of preference, like anything else.


 


  They're older games but nevertheless very much worth playing. Keep in mind that you will have to use something like DOSBox in order to play them.


----------



## leeperry

My all time fav is Gradius V, too good to be true w/ a full sanwa modded dreamcast arcade stick on a big projection screen


----------



## Roller

Oh, I forgot about a new one I've played! You guys should definitely try Jets'n'Guns, it's very entertaining.
   
  Another thing I like on my shmups is the ability to upgrade outside the levels themselves, through shops and whatnot.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





roller said:


> They're older games but nevertheless very much worth playing. Keep in mind that you will have to use something like DOSBox in order to play them.


 

 O.o
   
  That... is old. Yeah. I'll have to look into it sometime though.
   


  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> My all time fav is Gradius V, too good to be true w/ a full sanwa modded dreamcast arcade stick on a big projection screen


 

 The only Gradius game I haven't played is V. Sadness.
   
  I'm actually going to buy an arcade stick soon, and mod it to use a Seimitsu stick instead of the default JLF. I've heard great things about sticks-- care to share your experiences?


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> O.o
> 
> That... is old. Yeah. I'll have to look into it sometime though.


 

  
  There are, for instance, plenty of pre-2000 NeoGeo games that aren't any amazing because of their age


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





roller said:


> There are, for instance, plenty of pre-2000 NeoGeo games that aren't any amazing because of their age


 


 Hey, that's not necessary. I'm very well aware that a lot of older games are quite good. But, having myself grown up on more modern systems (my first console was a PS1), I don't have quite the same appreciation for it as some simply because I don't have first hand experience with them. When you said older I assumed last generation or somesuch-- which is what I commonly think of as 'older,' for better or for worse.

  
  Quote: 





roller said:


> Oh, I forgot about a new one I've played! You guys should definitely try Jets'n'Guns, it's very entertaining.
> 
> Another thing I like on my shmups is the ability to upgrade outside the levels themselves, through shops and whatnot.


 

 That does look interesting, and fairly entertaining.
   
  Sometimes I like that kind of functionality a lot, since it gives you more time and flexibility, and can feel more personal. On the other hand, it breaks away from the traditional arcade experience that is so attractive to a lot of players (myself included), so it sometimes feels less engaging for those reasons. Then there are games that don't have upgrades at all, like Ikaruga, or ones where the upgrades are absolutely necessary, like Mushihime-sama.
   
  It really depends on the game and how it's implemented, in my opinion.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Hey, that's not necessary. I'm very well aware that a lot of older games are quite good. But, having myself grown up on more modern systems (my first console was a PS1), I don't have quite the same appreciation for it as some simply because I don't have first hand experience with them. When you said older I assumed last generation or somesuch-- which is what I commonly think of as 'older,' for better or for worse.


 


  Lol, I see where you're coming from, and I do respect that. Old gaming goes way back, and having experienced those games as brand new back then gave it a whole different perspective.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





roller said:


> Lol, I see where you're coming from, and I do respect that. Old gaming goes way back, and having experienced those games as brand new back then gave it a whole different perspective.


 

 I have no doubt about that. And I absolutely respect and enjoy older games if and when I have the opportunity to play them-- the issue is that doesn't happen very often.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Machinae Supremacy actually did the music for Jets n Guns. Really fun band. Favorite song being Hybrid.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Machina Supremacy actually did the music for Jets n Guns. Really fun band. Favorite song being Hybrid.


 


  True. I had to get the soundtrack after playing the game. Good stuff


----------



## leeperry

I've never tried a Seimitsu stick tbh, and I really like the octogonal restrictor plate on the Sanwa =)
   
  BTW, I see that Gradius V is playable on that PC emu? awesomeness, gonna try! coz as much as I love this game, the sloppy PS2 hardware with all the kludges required have made me move on. That stupid PS2 can output native 640x480 60Hz VGA but you need a specific VGABOX, a boot loader to force VGA, then a boot loader to open your backup modded for 60Hz...I mean geeez. You also need to play +18H IIRC in order to unlock the game completely. The ability to play in VGA w/ a saved game on the PC after a few clicks sounds very tempting 
   
  Anyway, I've tried most of the shmups I could put my dirty hands on but to me they all feel unfinished/pointless compared to what Treasure can offer. I mean Ikaruga, RS, G5 are just state of the art all the way: perfect gameplay, stunning graphics, superb music. The competition is far away.


----------



## Roller

The best PS2 emu, PCSX2, really has come a long way since its initial release, and now can play a very large library of games with little to no issues at all. As long as you have a reasonably powerful CPU and a non legacy GPU, you should be able to play at native speeds, and if you happen to have specs closer to high end, then you just might be able to crank up graphics way beyond what the originals allowed.


----------



## leeperry

well, I don't think Ikaruga has ever been fully playable on PC?
   
  and going PC only would also alleviate the jitter of those pesky PS2>PC USB adapters...tempting


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> well, I don't think Ikaruga has ever been fully playable on PC?
> 
> and going PC only would also alleviate the jitter of those pesky PS2>PC USB adapters...tempting


 

 Ikaruga is 100% perfectly playable on pc via Dolphin, a stable and powerful gamecube/wii emulator. In theory you could even use it to play at settings above maximum (I, for example, play it at almost 1080x1920 once my monitor is flipped), but that requires a much more powerful  computer.
   
  PCSX2, the PS2 emulator mentioned above, is also very powerful. It's improved some games to the point where they look better outside of pre-rendered cutscenes, because of resolution. And for many of my games it plays flawlessly. However, for some it doesn't work well _at all_. The Jak and Daxter series, for example, are indeed _playable_-- at an average of 20-30 fps. Some of my favorite games are outright unplayable, while others work perfectly (or better).
   
  I would do some research before trying Gradius, or any shmup for that matter, via PCSX2. I play R-Type Final with it frequently, but Final had slowdown issues even on the native PS2 hardware, so I don't notice it nearly as much.
   
  If you have any questions about either emulator, I'd be happy to share my experiences in more detail. They have some unusual quirks.
   
  And regarding the arcade stick:
  I was under the impression that the larger 'neutral zone' on Sanwa sticks compared to Seimitsu sticks made them less favorable for shmups. I'll have both arriving soon (can't wait ;D), so I'll be able to test for myself. I assume the buttons are awesome enough not to need replacing.
   
  EDIT:
   
  I hate to be shamelessly self-promoting, but I thought due to the nature of the thread I might as well mention that I recently made a couple Ikaruga wallpapers (in white and black polarity, of course). If any of you guys are interested I can post them.
   
  EDIT2:
   
  I checked my exact system configuration for Dolphin. It emulates at 2x native resolution-- so 1280 x 1056 --  without AA or other enhancements. I can run those as well, but fps loses consistency, so I have them disabled.


----------



## leeperry

Well, I've often read that the DC version of Ikaruga was more or less identical to the native NAOMI and that the GC version was so-so. Quite frankly, I also tried to play RS on a PC a while back, and that was quite a failure as well.
   
  Anyway, the nice added value of G5 is that both G-Rev and Treasure worked on it, and they were forced to keep the Gradius legacy alive...so it's not an hardcore RS by a long shot, it's just the best shmup ever IMO. It's like hearing a $3K DAC, it completely spoils you ^^
   
  It's true that the central dead zone is a bit annoying on the JLF, and tbh it gets worse overtime....but the hexagonal restrictor is really great! I kept reading that the Seimitsu sticks were very stiff and the buttons eye candy but not as responsive as the sanwa's.
   
  This said, in real japanese arcade cabinets, hexagonal restrictors are forbidden and I think you can get the Seimitsu's hexagonal w/o buying any extra part...all this said, a full sanwa mod on a DC arcade stick using a PSX dualshock PCB is great fun


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, I've often read that the DC version of Ikaruga was more or less identical to the native NAOMI and that the GC version was so-so. Quite frankly, I also tried to play RS on a PC a while back, and that was quite a failure as well.
> 
> Anyway, the nice added value of G5 is that both G-Rev and Treasure worked on it, and they were forced to keep the Gradius legacy alive...so it's not an hardcore RS by a long shot, it's just the best shmup ever IMO. It's like hearing a $3K DAC, it completely spoils you ^^
> 
> ...


 

 I think the main complaint about the gamecube was that the gamecube controller is HORRIBLE for shmups-- which it is. It adds a lot of functionality to the game, including Prototype mode and Conquest mode, while still being almost arcade perfect. The only losses are the japanese text introducing each level, which is indeed a shame.
   
  However, what region are you?
  PAL runs at 50hz, so the game supposedly seems jittery in comparison to the other ones.
   
  The only gameplay relevant differences between the DC and GC versions are that DC has unintended slowdown on some segments that GC does not, and DC allows you to go slightly further off screen than GC (which is almost never relevant to gameplay anyways). Sound-wise, supposedly the GC version is limited by the GCs processor-- allegedly it's the equivalent of MP3 vs. FLAC. However, if you're emulating the limitation will be the ISO (which would in this case include that codec) and the audio processor of the emulator. I have no idea how effective the DC emulator is, so I can't comment on that much at all.
   
  I do have copies of the entire soundtrack in MP3, and have no qualms with it at all.
   
  I'm planning to use either octo gate or square, on an LS-58, which is supposedly a lighter and faster LS-32. It's considered the current best stick for shmupping. As far as buttons go I'm planning to use full Sanwa, since I've heard some less-than-ideal things about Seimitsu buttons.


----------



## leeperry

yep, I think the horror stories I read about Ikaruga GC were on a PAL console, so the 50Hz hiccup was simply the icing on the cake on top of the issues you just mentioned.
   
  this said, I really like the japanese talk at the beginning of RS in the Saturn version...I find it pretty annoying that they were not in the original STV. So arcade perfect is not always that desirable.
   
  ok, let us know about your LS58/sanwa real world comparison if you can...I'd like to build another arcade stick, but I can't be hassled to use those dodgy old consoles/game controllers adapters...I wanna go emu and build a native USB stick 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  at some point I tried my luck w/ MAME, but I'm a Reclock nuts when I watch movies...I just can't stand all the stuttering that's happening in all those vintage games. Like Progear, its horizontal scrolling gives me headaches duh.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> yep, I think the horror stories I read about Ikaruga GC were on a PAL console, so the 50Hz hiccup was simply the icing on the cake on top of the issues you just mentioned.
> 
> this said, I really like the japanese talk at the beginning of RS in the Saturn version...I find it pretty annoying that they were not in the original STV. So arcade perfect is not always that desirable.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry for the late response.
   
  I agree that the japanese text was a nice thematic element that I do miss sometimes. But it's really no big deal. And I would normally pursue the arcade perfect experience as much as possible, but the differences here are so minute, and so many other bonuses are present that aren't in the original, that I'm more than satisfied for the time being.
   
  I just finished placing my orders for the stick-- I'm going to use an Eightarc Onyx as a base, due to low cost, insane quality, and low shipping (within California, at least). I also ordered an LS-58-01, so I should be able to directly compare the JLF and LS-58 once they get here. EXCITED!!!
   
  As far as going USB native: I say go for it. To be honest, I wanted to build one from scratch, but as a college student with athletic and club obligations I frankly don't have the time to devote to such DIY projects. (Over this summer I plan to rectify that, starting with a pair of full-range Voight pipe based speakers and a Gainclone).
   
  That isn't something that ever occurred to me as an issue, but now that you mention it I can see why it would cause problems for someone in this hobby. I haven't used MAME yet, although i plan to someday-- I'd love to have my own cabinet full of shmupping goodness.
   
  And some horizontal scrollers work for me, some don't. I love R-type (I, III, and Final), but some of the Gradius titles make me uneasy after a while. I haven't the slightest idea why.


----------



## leeperry

Yes, I would indeed need a good stick to mod...the official DC is great because its top panel is non-sticky, but the color scheme is pretty horrid(including the yellow start button). Most cheap sticks are made of flimsy plastic that just feels cheap and their top panel gets terribly sticky after a little while.
   
  OK, sounds like a plan! I will try G5 and Ikaruga GC, they might just convince me to build an arcade stick again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Well, I'm all for butter-smooth 24p movies and 60fps videogames...all I've seen in MAME were very old hiccuping games. There's only so much you can expect from a 30yo videogames cabinet ^^
   
  Awaiting your feedback on LS-58-01 then! I hope you bought the octogonal restrictors as well, coz these things are hell fun to dodge bullets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sine Mora is out on XBL for 1200 points. ($15)

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVTnwFqBVcw[/VIDEO]

Looks like I'll be picking this up at some point.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Yes, I would indeed need a good stick to mod...the official DC is great because its top panel is non-sticky, but the color scheme is pretty horrid(including the yellow start button). Most cheap sticks are made of flimsy plastic that just feels cheap and their top panel gets terribly sticky after a little while.
> 
> OK, sounds like a plan! I will try G5 and Ikaruga GC, they might just convince me to build an arcade stick again
> 
> ...


 

 I did not get the octo gate, but that's because I've heard very good things about the square. The diagonals have longer throw on a square gate, which is supposedly better for shmups because it helps prevent accidental moves. Either way I know where to get the octo if I need it, so it won't be a huge issue.
   
  If you do go through with it, I wish you the best. It's not an inexpensive project, although compared to some of the stuff on this forum it sure seems that way.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> --stuff--


 

 That looks very interesting indeed. And very frustrating, because there are SO MANY SHMUPS OUT FOR XBOX AND I DON"T HAVE MINE...
   
  I seriously need to buy a new one. This is becoming ridiculous.


----------



## Phos

The depth of the notch doesn't change the activation point.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I should really pick up an Xbox again later this year...Just to play Schmups. Finally just bite the bullet and import all the CAVE 360 releases. 
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sine Mora is out on XBL for 1200 points. ($15)Looks like I'll be picking this up at some point.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





phos said:


> The depth of the notch doesn't change the activation point.


 

 Yeah, I know. The engage distances are the same. But the diagonals have more travel until the actual edge of the gate. According to what I've read, this can be very helpful to some players. I'm just going to have to experiment to figure out what works best for me.
   


  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I should really pick up an Xbox again later this year...Just to play Schmups. Finally just bite the bullet and import all the CAVE 360 releases.


 

 I just don't understand why Xbox. Live is a very useful distribution platform, true, but the Xbox controller isn't really made for the kind of precise movements expected in many shooters. You'd think that there would be multi-console releases, at the very least, but no.


----------



## leeperry

I'm still seeking a good foster stick...I've seen a xbox360 Hori Tekken 6 for $39 at a pawn shop, but it seems too thin and the artwork is horrid. OTOH, it's non-sticky and neither too small or big.
   
  I still think the agetec/official DC is the perfect stick, but the colors scheme is terrible.
   
  I'll dig harder, but I kinda like the apple look of those wii sticks: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?179535-How-to-Mod-your-Hori-Fighting-Stick-Wii
   

   
  will also need to make up my mind on the stick...apparently you cannot get an octo gate for the LS32.


----------



## leeperry

OTOH, Ben Shinobi is able to 1CC pretty much any game out there: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53811
   
  and he went through Gradius V with the non-dualshock PSX gamepad ^^


----------



## leeperry

all your jitter are belong to us: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-novel-method-for-testing-input-lag.154427/
   
  I lost coz this PCB is jittery as hell


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Softdrink 117* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I just finished placing my orders for the stick-- I'm going to use an Eightarc Onyx as a base, due to low cost, insane quality, and low shipping (within California, at least). I also ordered an LS-58-01, so I should be able to directly compare the JLF and LS-58 once they get here. EXCITED!!!


 

 Well, I just traded some audio stuff for one of those sticks, used for 50 hours only: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230534463432&orig_cvip=true
   
  It supports Seimitsu/Sanwa sticks OOTB: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230687045171
   
  I think I'll order a LS56 and its octo gate plus a sanwa octo gate of course...apparently it's a winner all the way: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/seimitsu-ls-56-01-vs-sanwa-jlf-tp-8yt-sk-joystick.149965/
   
  I'm tempted to get some Seimitsu springs as well, that supposedly do wonders in the Sanwa's. I want a stiffer octo Sanwa basically, with a narrower dead center zone.
   
  I'll have an Ikaruga artwork printed as well, et voilà ))
   
  And the nice added value of PC emulators is that musics will go through my USB DAC, not the cheapie onboard chips of those old consoles


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, I just traded some audio stuff for one of those sticks, used for 50 hours only: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230534463432&orig_cvip=true
> 
> It supports Seimitsu/Sanwa sticks OOTB: http://www.ebay.com/itm/230687045171
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry for the late response; finals and illness consuming my life these past few days. Sounds like you're well on your way.

 Mine just arrived today. It's NIIIIIIICE... Definitely going to need an artwork change soon though. The felt on the bottom is ridiculously effective, and the overall build quality is excellent.
   
  The LS-58 hasn't been installed yet, but I already prefer it to the JLF. The Sanwa's dead zone is MASSIVE by comparison, and it feels mushy and loose. But I will certainly give it a try, as it has far too much 'street cred' to be dismissed so easily. Interestingly, the default mounting plate for the LS-58 fits the JLF's normal mount holes, which is quite awesome.
   
  The LS-58 and LS-56 are very closely related. I forget what exactly the differences are, but they're quite minor-- like, one has a stiffer spring and a slightly longer shaft, or something.
   
  This is very true. Very true indeed.


----------



## leeperry

well yeah, and the dead zone gets worse and worse on the JLF so after +100H it becomes quite annoying.
   
  I want to get a Seimitsu for sure, and apparently only the LS58 has an octo gate available, so that narrows down my choice quite a bit..lucky me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The stick I'm getting is massive so I'll have to damp the inside otherwise it's gonna be a clicky resonant feast haha.


----------



## leeperry

right on the money indeed: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/ls-58-01-thread-and-questions.149387/page-2#post-6541783


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> well yeah, and the dead zone gets worse and worse on the JLF so after +100H it becomes quite annoying.
> 
> I want to get a Seimitsu for sure, and apparently only the LS58 has an octo gate available, so that narrows down my choice quite a bit..lucky me
> 
> ...


 

 You can always mod a Sanwa octo gate to fit the mounting holes on the Seimitsu sticks if you really need to.
   
  The dead zone gets _bigger_?! This is indeed a problem.
   
  Mine is pretty big too, though not _quite_ that size. I might want to dampen it at some point as well.
  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> right on the money indeed: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/ls-58-01-thread-and-questions.149387/page-2#post-6541783


 

 See, I know what I'm talking about... Usually.
   
  Also, to get a little bit more on topic, I was playing the iOS port of Deathsmiles the other day. The story mode is locked at the easiest difficulty until you've beaten it once. So I figured I might try to beat it. And ended up 1CC'ing the game without being hit once. Even on a low difficulty, that felt nice.


----------



## leeperry

I'm getting a LS32 spring, it could/should/would do nicely in the JLF ^^
   
  and yes the LS58 mounting holes seem identical to the JLF.


----------



## leeperry

so do you have any b/w Ikaruga artwork?
   
  This is my stick: http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7523/p1000229s.jpg
   
  I will populate it w/ b/w 30mm buttons only: http://www.focusattack.com/black-rim-sanwa-obsf-30mm-pushbutton-white-black/
   
  and prolly use one of those: http://www.ikaruga.co.uk/files/misc/


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I'm getting a LS32 spring, it could/should/would do nicely in the JLF ^^
> 
> and yes the LS58 mounting holes seem identical to the JLF.


 

 Terrible news! The holes aren't quite identical, at least in my case. They're off by like 2-3mm. So I have to buy another plate... And will take the opportunity to buy the octo gates for both sticks.
   
  In other news, I really like the Sanwa despite the large neutral zone, so who knows, I might end up sticking with it.

  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> so do you have any b/w Ikaruga artwork?
> 
> This is my stick: http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7523/p1000229s.jpg
> 
> ...


 

 I was going to use photoshop and mash some of those together, probably. Or maybe do some custom scratch artwork if I had the time. Here's a couple desktop backgrounds I made a while ago, using various official art pieces.
   


   
  If you want me to do something like that for you, I can. I would just need the template design for your stick and some basic suggestions on what you wanted on there. But I'll be out of town for a few days, so it can't happen until Monday.
   
  EDIT:
  I just found some illustrations I thought had been lost forever. That directory you linked has way more in it than I thought. Thanks!


----------



## leeperry

well, I've got a Dremel mini-drill and I ain't afraid of using it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I kinda like the idea of keeping the unit black and white and using this one: http://www.blog.thaichaiguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/lagi-ikaruga.jpg
   
  It brings a tiny touch of color and looks great, I'm not sure whether its resolution could warrant a 40cm width, though.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> well, I've got a Dremel mini-drill and I ain't afraid of using it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How would you arrange the panel though? It might obscure the illustration, which would sort of defeat the point.
   
  And as for resolution-- probably not. But with a bit of filler you could probably get close.


----------



## leeperry

not sure yet, I've asked the seller if he had a template available.
   
  BTW: http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html


> Shmups (short for shoot’em ups like 1942 and Gradius) tend to prefer a smaller deadzone for quicker movements and are not sensitive to split-second wrong movements, Seimitsu LS-32 most commonly recommended for them.


 
   
  I think I'll get my parts from akihabarashop.jp coz US shops always seem to have a part missing and european ones are terribly expensive.
   
  Apparently the LS32 became so famous thanks to its round gate: http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/restrictors.html


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> not sure yet, I've asked the seller if he had a template available.
> 
> BTW: http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/attributes_brands.html
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, I've read the entire Slagcoin site already. It was hard to choose between the LS-32 and the LS-58, but a lot of activity on the Shoryouken (sp?) forums was in favor of the 58 over the 32. So I figured I should at least try it out, since I have the money to do a little trial and error right now. Plus the smoke balltop and shaft that came with the LS-58 look REALLY COOL.
   
  And Focus Attack worked fine for me-- they just don't include items not normally found with the stick. So in the case of the LS-58, that would be the alternate mounting plates and the octo gate. They seem to be out of stock of the LS-32 at the moment though.


----------



## leeperry

I wonder what a round gate would do in shmups? but there isn't any available for the LS58 apparently?
   
  Yep, I'm tired of googling up...it looks like focus attack is the only US seller for the LS58


----------



## MorbidToaster

I like round gates for schmups. If you have a steady hand they feel more...precise to me. Teeny itty bitty movements. 
   
  Comes down to preference though. I think an Octogate is best for fighters (for me), but so many fighting fans use square gates.


----------



## daisangen

CAVE and LS-32 addict reporting in. I play all the ports released for Japanese Xbox 360.
   
  I got started with various Touhou games but scoring in them seriously sucks and ZUN's games are pretty much the same every time.


----------



## leeperry

Well, I've received my full Sanwa arcade stick....the square JLF is a major no-go! But I realize that slapping an octo gate on it doesn't really help w/ the huge dead zone and mostly boils down to polishing a turd.
   
  I think I will order a LS58 + octo gate, a JLF octo gate and some Seimitsu springs....not sure about that last part yet, but this stock JLF is unplayable in shmups for me and Seimitsu only offer an octo gate for the LS56 and LS58 I think. I don't wanna go square or round, I just really love the octo gate feeling...but I want a stiff and highly responsive stick, w/ the JLF I'm forced to take the inertia of the stick in account. I prolly could get used to it, but meh.
   
  I'm not geeky enough to care about the colors of the buttons or the artwork, but I want a non-sluggish stick


----------



## daisangen

Agreed, JLF has way too much dead zone and throw.


----------



## leeperry

I wonder how/why/who they bribed to make JLF become the industry standard...anyway, this thread echoes my feelings: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sanwa-jlf-w-octagonal-gate-bad.45901/
   
  Now to decide whether I should order LS56 and/or LS58...apparently LS56 is slightly stiffer and LS58 is its improved counterpart. But for instance I found the HAPP bats way too stiff and their throw way too short when using them on a Tekken cabinet ages ago. I want an in-between.
   
*PS:* OMG, pure poison!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI


----------



## Softdrink 117

Sorry for the late reply, been out of town and away from internet.
   
  After using the JLF extensively, I have to agree. I find myself compensating for the dead zone way too much for practical use in shmups. Admittedly it's a huge improvement over an xbox pad or normal keyboard, and I find myself able to move with precision that I would never have thought possible until now. But the timing is off.
   
  However, keep in mind that the JLF is mostly an industry standard due to fighting games. I've been playing a lot of BlazBlue on my stick lately, and I have to admit that although the deadzone is lame for shmups and precision work, it can actually be a huge blessing when doing move inputs in fighters. It's _very_ intuitive and makes some otherwise very cumbersome moves stupidly easy to do simply because it _isn't_ as sensitive as a d-pad or (I would guess) a more sensitive stick.
   
  I'm still waiting on my LS58 mounting plates and octo gate... SIGH. They should be here tomorrow. Then I can finally compare.
   
  Nice to hear from you daisangen. I agree that Touhou's scoring sucks (with the possible exception of Perfect Cherry Blossom, which has a ridiculously unintuitive but very interesting system), and that although they're awesome games they do feel like rehashes of each other after a while.
   
  CAVE's shooters always feel unique to me. Something about the way the patterns are designed is just so different from anything else I've played. The scoring mechanics are a plus, too.
   
  And MorbidToaster, I take it you use an LS-32 then? I don't think there are circle gates available for the 56/58 series, and although there is one for the JLF it's of questionable utility. I'd be interested to try an LS-32 myself... but we'll see how I like the 58. I'm spending more on this stick than I had anticipated.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I've owned a few sticks over the years and preferred Octo for fighters and Round for schmups. My 2 favorite sticks were custom jobs done by Arcade in a Box (who I think is out of buisness now).
  
  Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> And MorbidToaster, I take it you use an LS-32 then? I don't think there are circle gates available for the 56/58 series, and although there is one for the JLF it's of questionable utility. I'd be interested to try an LS-32 myself... but we'll see how I like the 58. I'm spending more on this stick than I had anticipated.


----------



## ZenErik

Here is my physical release shmup collection. It'll grow a little bit this year with releases like Mushihimesama HD as well as me picking up a few other shmups but probably not by much.
   
   
  Focusing more on RPGs, fighters, rhythm games, puzzle games, and just primarily imports all around this year.
   
  Xbox 360 shmups: This portion will only grow. none of these games would I ever consider cutting. I however WOULD consider swapping some of them out for LE's.

   
  Doujin shmups: 

   
  Others: Yea, my shmup collection outside of 360 and PC is pretty bare

   
  Rail shooters + arena shooters: Child of Eden is an all time favorite of mine.


----------



## Roller

ZenErik, which shmups do you consider to be the best for the PSX?


----------



## ZenErik

Considering I do not own any PS1 shmups, that is hard for me to say. A lot of PS1 shmups are also on the Saturn and often superior on the Saturn... Someone on the shmups forum can probably help you out a lot  better with PS1 shmups. The only one I recall that I really want to play and have not already is Harmful Park.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Mobile Light Force is actually a fantastic schmup for PS1. Honestly the best place to.get schmups for PS1 right now is the Playstation Network via PSP or PS3. 

They rereleased a lot of previously Japan only stuff all of which are less than 10 bucks. PS3 also got the Gundemonium (?) collection which. enjoyed a lot.


----------



## Roller

Ok. Harmful Park and Mobile Light Force. Does anyone know of more good PSX shmups?


----------



## Phos

Check out R-Type Delta.


----------



## leeperry

Einhander, RayStorm.


----------



## ZenErik

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Einhander, RayStorm.


 

  
  I definitely agree with Einhander. I would recommend DoDonPachi and Soukyugurentai Otokuyo, but I do not know if the PS1 ports are any good.
   
  Are there any other consoles you are looking for shmups on? MAME is a great PC option.


----------



## leeperry

I never liked Einhander but Raystorm and RayForce were amazing on SAT. 
   
  Oh yes, Soukyugurentai!!! loved it on SAT.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Mobile Light Force is actually a fantastic schmup for PS1. Honestly the best place to.get schmups for PS1 right now is the Playstation Network via PSP or PS3.
> They rereleased a lot of previously Japan only stuff all of which are less than 10 bucks. PS3 also got the Gundemonium (?) collection which. enjoyed a lot.


 

 Really? I'm apparently totally out of the loop on this, as I haven't checked PSN in a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
   
  [rushes off to buy games]
  
  Quote: 





roller said:


> Ok. Harmful Park and Mobile Light Force. Does anyone know of more good PSX shmups?


 

 I have to echo the R-type and Einhander recommendations. I haven't yet played delta, but I've played almost every other game in the series, and most of them are fantastic. As for Einhander, it's really just a phenomenal shooter, and I still play the original via PS3. Unfortunately I wasn't as into shooters when I was younger, so I can't give any more recommendations.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Most of them will be in the PS1 Imports section. Enjoy.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Most of them will be in the PS1 Imports section. Enjoy.


 


  What section are you talking about?
   
  EDIT: About MAME, that is a whole separate situation I'll give focus later on, but right now I'm just enriching my PSX library with good to great games.


----------



## MorbidToaster

http://www.1up.com/news/monkeypaw-bringing-ps1-imports-psn
   
  Everyone needs to play ChoAnki, by the way. Hilariously awesome schmup.
   
  It should still be in the PS1 games section. It's a subsection there.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Okay, so I just got my Saturn emulator working (finally), and started playing Radiant Silvergun. LOOOOOVE IT.
   
  I'll check out the PSN titles shortly.


----------



## ZenErik

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Okay, so I just got my Saturn emulator working (finally), and started playing Radiant Silvergun. LOOOOOVE IT.
> 
> I'll check out the PSN titles shortly.


 


  You do NOT want to play shmups on a Saturn emulator. I use SSF, and shmups have ridiculous input lag with it. Like 1/2 a second lag. Fine for RPGs though.  I use my real Saturn for shmups that aren't available via MAME or on the 360 or whatever.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> You do NOT want to play shmups on a Saturn emulator. I use SSF, and shmups have ridiculous input lag with it. Like 1/2 a second lag. Fine for RPGs though.  I use my real Saturn for shmups that aren't available via MAME or on the 360 or whatever.


 

 Really? I'm not noticing any lag. I'll do some tests and report back on this.
   
  I'm using Yabause, by the way.
   
  EDIT: Yeah, I get no lag at all. Or at least none that affects my play. I can time shots perfectly, and movement is instantaneous. I'm not sure why you're having trouble.
   
  Then again, my computer uses very modern components and is very powerful, and I'm playing at low graphical settings.


----------



## leeperry

OK, I just passed a $70 order on focusattack.com, that should yield me a fun to use stick hopefully 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I guess adding a LS32 spring and an octo gate to the JLF will be a lot more responsive than stock indeed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI
   
  I've also damped every cavity of my huge stick w/ foam, no more loud plasticky resonances anymore...more pics to come when I'll have it all working, I will also need to drill the LS58 plate in order to make it fit the JLF screw holes.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> OK, I just passed a $70 order on focusattack.com, that should yield me a fun to use stick hopefully
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice. My alternate LS-58 plates just came in... and don't quite fit.
   
  Suffice to say I'm frustrated. However, I have access to a machine shop, so it should be a simple matter to open up the holes a bit more. In the meantime, the stick does fit in, albeit at a very slight angle with only three screws, and it is an INFINITE IMPROVEMENT over the JLF. SOOOOOO much more responsive I don't even have words.
   
  My impressions might change with time, but I doubt it. It feels much nicer than I had expected. The octo gate was also definitely worth the investment-- I liked the square okay, but this just feels 'right'.
   
  I still need to damp mine... I wish I could find my acoustic foam. That stuff was awesome.
   
  What color buttons did you end up getting?
   
  Do give your impressions on the modded JLF, btw. I'm interested to hear how that works out.


----------



## leeperry

I thought I didn't care about the colors of the buttons, but the sluggish stock JLF and those ugly colors really don't make my day(that's the link the guy I traded this stick for some audio gear sent me): http://imageshack.us/g/812/p1000229s.jpg/ 
   

   
  It's available in many color schemes, but he bought this one coz it was the only one in stock at the the time(I can see why ^^): http://chenlefr.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/arcade-stick-ultra-ulia/
   
  Ends up, I'm gonna go w/ this scheme:
   
   
   
  Together w/ a dark gray smoke seimitsu ball:
   
   
   
  I will also have a see-through "bubble" seimitsu ball, that might look nice as well so we'll see.
   
  The maker of the stick is completely unable to give me a template for the artwork: "it's printed in China, you're SOL".
   
  Anyway, this stick is very nice but the 6 top screws don't have a flat head and they really get annoying...I've unscrewed two of them as my hands kept bumping into them.
   
  I still think that the Agetec official DC stick was perfect from A to Z: flat head top screws, perfect size, perfect weight, perfect non-sweaty top panel....too bad about the ugly colors and the time it takes to install SANWA parts


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I will also have a see-through "bubble" seimitsu ball, that might look nice as well so we'll see.
> 
> The maker of the stick is completely unable to give me a template for the artwork: "it's printed in China, you're SOL".
> 
> ...


 

 I have the smoke Seimitsu bubble. It's beautiful. I also have a Sanwa black balltop, which is nice but not fantastic.
   
  Sorry to hear you don't have a template, that sucks.
   
  Are the screws countersunk into the panel, or raised? If they're countersunk you should be able to find some replacements that'll fit the holes better. If they aren't... you can always have the panel countersunk. It's not actually that hard to do.
   
   
   
  In other news, I just tried a few shmups via PSN. Raiden III, for example. It's fun, but feels really sluggish coming from CAVE and Treasure titles. That and the difficulties only correspond to the speed of the bullets, not the number or the pattern-- so at very hard, you have bullets that cross the entire screen in just a few frames. It's not _challenging_ hard, like CAVE, Touhou, or Treasure games; it's _stupid_ hard. So that was kind of a let down. Otherwise quite fun though, and has vertical monitor modes, which I'm always a fan of.


----------



## ZenErik

Got some new sticks at PAX East/Anime Boston! 
   

   
  And thus, my old ones have got to go. I have too many, haha.
   
  AWAY WITH THESE!


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Got some new sticks at PAX East/Anime Boston!
> 
> 
> 
> And thus, my old ones have got to go. I have too many, haha.


 

 Nice! I actually wanted the Q4RAF, but it was out of stock everywhere when I was finally able to place my order. Not that I'm complaining-- I love my Onyx. But the dual mod functionality will have to come later, unfortunately.
   
  Is there any particular reason why you have one of those dental floss extender things in the above picture?


----------



## ZenErik

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Nice! I actually wanted the Q4RAF, but it was out of stock everywhere when I was finally able to place my order. Not that I'm complaining-- I love my Onyx. But the dual mod functionality will have to come later, unfortunately.
> 
> Is there any particular reason why you have one of those dental floss extender things in the above picture?


 

 I didn't even notice it was there.
   
  BTW, if you do ever get a Q4 RAF, I recommend just getting the regular black model. A common problem with the translucent Limited Editions is squeaky buttons. An issue with Sanwa's manufacturing of the translucent buttons. It is not that bad at all, but it is there. Not worth spending an extra $30 or so to have these issues. I did not notice until I took it home and used it.
   
  Qanba seems to have great customer service so I am sure they will be willing to help if it really does bother me. And Videogames New York, whom I bought it from, will also help me out.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Are the screws countersunk into the panel, or raised? If they're countersunk you should be able to find some replacements that'll fit the holes better. If they aren't... you can always have the panel countersunk. It's not actually that hard to do.


 

 Indeed, I guess I could dremelize the plexiglass top panel, and I actually got a spare one in case things didn't go as expected...I'll think about it as a final mod thing to do I guess. I will also solder the connectors that fit into the buttons because everything is poorly cramped atm, the electrical contacts seem poor...some good ole eutectic cardas solder will seal it all for good


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> I didn't even notice it was there.
> 
> BTW, if you do ever get a Q4 RAF, I recommend just getting the regular black model. A common problem with the translucent Limited Editions is squeaky buttons. An issue with Sanwa's manufacturing of the translucent buttons. It is not that bad at all, but it is there. Not worth spending an extra $30 or so to have these issues. I did not notice until I took it home and used it.
> 
> Qanba seems to have great customer service so I am sure they will be willing to help if it really does bother me. And Videogames New York, whom I bought it from, will also help me out.


 

 Lol, I just thought it was out of place and mentioned it.
   
  I was most interested in the black one. That and the Seimitsu-only limited edition black one. I don't tend to like translucent stuff-- just not my style. Thanks for the heads up though; I agree that's rather unfortunate.
   
  I don't think I will end up getting one, but we'll see. I'm playing both shmups and fighters from one stick right now, which is a bit of a problem sometimes. I really like the build quality and finish on the Onyx, though, and it's got plenty of room for future modifications. So at the moment I'm not so inclined to get another stick. I plan to do a dual mod myself over the summer, along with some other projects.
   
  My stick is technically not Qanba, but it's made by Eightarc, which is basically Qanba's US sub-division. And I agree that the service is excellent: I received a shipping notification within literally seven hours of placing my order. Of course it took a while to arrive (UPS ground and overweight packages, etc.), but well worth it.
   
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Indeed, I guess I could dremelize the plexiglass top panel, and I actually got a spare one in case things didn't go as expected...I'll think about it as a final mod thing to do I guess. I will also solder the connectors that fit into the buttons because everything is poorly cramped atm, the electrical contacts seem poor...some good ole eutectic cardas solder will seal it all for good


 

 You have Cardas solder... O.o
   
  When you refer to the connectors, do you mean the quick disconnects or the actual terminals on the base of the buttons?
   
   
   
  And now for something completely different:
   
  The recent update to the iOS port of Mushihime-sama adds arcade-style slowdown, which is really nice as it both gives a more arcade-esque experience and makes some sections of Ultra/Hell slightly more possible. Also, the iOS CAVE games are all on sale right now, so if any of you have the interest and the means I suggest you pick them up, because they're awesome.
   
  EDIT:
   
  I just finished setting up my joystick for Touhou and other doujin pc shmups, and am super excited. It's soooooooooo much more intuitive and fun to play on a stick than on keyboard.


----------



## ZenErik

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Lol, I just thought it was out of place and mentioned it.
> 
> I was most interested in the black one. That and the Seimitsu-only limited edition black one. I don't tend to like translucent stuff-- just not my style. Thanks for the heads up though; I agree that's rather unfortunate.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info. I did not know about Eightarc. Looks like the Eightarc Fusion is a good option for those that complain about the QanBa Q4's start button placement. Apparently, accidentally pressing start in a fighting game tournament will get you disqualified. I can see why. But why would a player skilled enough to participate in a tournament not have enough control over their hand to keep it over the 8 buttons? Most fighters only use 4 to 6 of those. Something tells me a player of that caliber would never make it very far anyway.
   
  The only downsides to the Eightarc Fusion sticks are the "mode" button is replaced by "start", lack of a handle, and higher price. I do not think the missing "mode" button would be much of an issue, but perhaps on certain games it may be. "mode" allows you to switch from digital to analog controls on the stick. The stick remains 8 way, but it resolves potential compatibility issues with some doujin games. The handle is a nice touch but not a deal breaker for me. And the price difference does not matter to me but may to some. 
   
  So far I've only really used one of the sticks to plow through BlazBlue's arcade mode with Platinum the Trinity. No issues to report.  Well, except that I DID hit the "start button" a few times. It was just a natural reflex because "start" is usually the "taunt" button in arcades. But now I have taunt mapped to the bottom right button and have adjusted so all is good.
   
  What other doujin shmups do you play outside of Touhou? I agree on playing with a stick. There are a few PC shooters I play with a controller but it's mainly stick for me. The notable exception in my mind is Diadra Empty. Definitely works better with a controller + analog.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Thanks for the info. I did not know about Eightarc. Looks like the Eightarc Fusion is a good option for those that complain about the QanBa Q4's start button placement. Apparently, accidentally pressing start in a fighting game tournament will get you disqualified. I can see why. But why would a player skilled enough to participate in a tournament not have enough control over their hand to keep it over the 8 buttons? Most fighters only use 4 to 6 of those. Something tells me a player of that caliber would never make it very far anyway.
> 
> The only downsides to the Eightarc Fusion sticks are the "mode" button is replaced by "start", lack of a handle, and higher price. I do not think the missing "mode" button would be much of an issue, but perhaps on certain games it may be. "mode" allows you to switch from digital to analog controls on the stick. The stick remains 8 way, but it resolves potential compatibility issues with some doujin games. The handle is a nice touch but not a deal breaker for me. And the price difference does not matter to me but may to some.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. I guess some people have weird hand placement??
   
  I looked at the Fusion, but it too was sold out. They Onyx, however, is an awesome stick. TONS of room inside, MDF construction, felt bottom... It feels stupidly solid, and the piano finish is beautiful (and surprisingly enough does not attract fingerprints). The only downside is the lack of preexisting dual mod functionality.
   
  Wait, you mean that button actually has a function? O.o
  That's interesting, but as you said, not terribly functional for most applications.
   
  I've been playing BlazBlue a lot recently, actually. I loved it on pad, but it is infinitely better on stick. I'm not very good, considering it's literally the only fighting game I've ever played (though that will change tomorrow, once Skullgirls comes out on PSN). But it's insanely fun.
   
  Right now I play Touhou, Alltynex Second, YGS2000, and a few others. I wouldn't say YGS2000 is a 'real' shmup, but it does have some great patterns taken from CAVE titles and can be helpful for practice. I also emulate Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, and R-Type Final.


----------



## ZenErik

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. I guess some people have weird hand placement??
> 
> I looked at the Fusion, but it too was sold out. They Onyx, however, is an awesome stick. TONS of room inside, MDF construction, felt bottom... It feels stupidly solid, and the piano finish is beautiful (and surprisingly enough does not attract fingerprints). The only downside is the lack of preexisting dual mod functionality.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like the Onyx is very similar to the QanBa sticks. It's probably also a QanBa rebrand. I love the felt bottom. The stick doesn't slip at all on my lap. As much as I liked my HRAP sticks, the QanBa feels more solid.
   
  BlazBlue is great. The story mode is extremely deep for a fighter. Plays much like a visual novel. Which system are you playing on? I would also recommend trying out Arcana Heart 3 or King of Fighters XIII sometime. And Phantom Breaker is a fun but more simple fighter. Definitely not as good, IMO, but it is very noob friendly. Dead or Alive 4 is a solid 3D fighter if you have a 360, but personally, I would say wait for Dead or Alive 5 this fall.
   
  Alltynex Second is awesome!!! Siter Skain makes some of the best shmups even if we're including Cave, Psikyo, Raizing, etc. For MAME or other forms of emulation I would definitely recommend Battle Garegga and Mars Matrix. Triggerheart Exelica is another favorite. Not sure if that works with NAOMI/DC emulation or not.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Sounds like the Onyx is very similar to the QanBa sticks. It's probably also a QanBa rebrand. I love the felt bottom. The stick doesn't slip at all on my lap. As much as I liked my HRAP sticks, the QanBa feels more solid.
> 
> BlazBlue is great. The story mode is extremely deep for a fighter. Plays much like a visual novel. Which system are you playing on? I would also recommend trying out Arcana Heart 3 or King of Fighters XIII sometime. And Phantom Breaker is a fun but more simple fighter. Definitely not as good, IMO, but it is very noob friendly. Dead or Alive 4 is a solid 3D fighter if you have a 360, but personally, I would say wait for Dead or Alive 5 this fall.
> 
> Alltynex Second is awesome!!! Siter Skain makes some of the best shmups even if we're including Cave, Psikyo, Raizing, etc. For MAME or other forms of emulation I would definitely recommend Battle Garegga and Mars Matrix. Triggerheart Exelica is another favorite. Not sure if that works with NAOMI/DC emulation or not.


 

 Yeah, the story in BlazBlue is amazing, and it has an incredible sense of humor. Easily one of the funniest and most enjoyable games I've played in years. I play on PS3. I *would* play on Xbox, but for a number of reasons I couldn't bring it with me to college.
   
  I'm currently trying to finish the campaigns. Not going too well since I also have physics and computer science homework... SIGH... I just want to be done with the story by tomorrow.
   
  And yes, Alltynex Second IS awesome. It really does compete with actual developers, although the first level is IMO a little slow to warm up. It also has a stupidly catchy and classic space shooter soundtrack.
   
  I emulate Ikaruga on GC, because of the extra features not present in the DC version. I own the GC and Xbox Live versions of the game, and love both, but the GC is more true to the arcade. It has virtually no significant differences from the arcade and DC versions except the audio processing, which is indeed a loss.
   
  I will have to look into Battle Garegga and the others you mentioned; I haven't heard of them.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> You have Cardas solder... O.o
> 
> When you refer to the connectors, do you mean the quick disconnects or the actual terminals on the base of the buttons?


 

 The Cardas quad eutectic solder is pretty cheap and its nice added value is that its melting point is very low and it makes perfect joints.
   
  I was referring to the quick disconnect connectors but having more thoughts about it, when I'll be all set I'll simply solder the wires that come off the PCB directly onto the buttons. I hate poor electrical connections due to sloppy middle men 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyway, my order has been shipped...it'll be a matter of 10 days or so for my friend to receive it and ship it back to Europe.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> The Cardas quad eutectic solder is pretty cheap and its nice added value is that its melting point is very low and it makes perfect joints.
> 
> I was referring to the quick disconnect connectors but having more thoughts about it, when I'll be all set I'll simply solder the wires that come off the PCB directly onto the buttons. I hate poor electrical connections due to sloppy middle men
> 
> ...


 

 I'm at the stage where Cardas anything seems crazy. Some of the products are pretty reasonable, though, and it does seem like good solder.
   
  SHRUG.
   
  I'm a fan of the quick disconnects. It takes enough time to open up the case-- switching out buttons should be uncomplicated.
   
  On another note:
  ----
  I recently managed to obtain a copy of the DoDonPachi DaiOuJou ISO. Having played the official console release of the game now, and being able to compare it directly to the iOS port, I have a few comments:
  First, my initial impression was _whoa, the iOS port is totally broken_. This is because in the iOS version, you're given analog control over the movement of the fighters. Further, your speed is limited only by the speed at which you can move your finger across the screen. And there is no speed penalty for using the laser as opposed to the standard shot. This might seem like a 'well duh' kind of comment, but having actually played both versions it makes a huge difference in some places.
  By comparison, in the official console port, and in the arcade release, the speed and handling of your ship changes depending on which shot type your using and even which of the two starter ships and three element dolls you choose. This is a massive gameplay difference that makes some techniques impossible to exchange between the two versions. I did, however, notice that the comboing timer on the iOS release goes down slightly quicker, which actually does a lot to balance out this issue.
   
  However, there isn't really any practical way of fixing this without making the game unplayable. So IMO it's a necessary evil.
   
  Second, the iOS port looks and sounds better. Vastly better, in some cases. But in my opinion, it also loses out on a little bit of the charm that the arcade graphics have, although I prefer the arranged iOS soundtrack to that on console.
   
  Third, there are a very few item and enemy placements that are different, and a few patterns that are changed. They aren't really that important.
  ----
  In conclusion, I stand by my statement that the iOS port is very, very good, but must admit that there are several fundamental differences between the two versions of the title that make the iOS somewhat less pure of a port than ideal. I do, however, think it's as good as you can get in terms of porting a shmup game to a touch interface, and honestly have no complaints (except about the new 'custom edit' feature, but that's a whole different story.)
   
  \endrant


----------



## ZenErik

Is it an ISO of the PS2 version or Xbox 360 version? DOJ is also available on MAME. I have played all 3 of those versions.  And the iOS version too! It's my favorite DDP easily.


----------



## leeperry

There's also been a rom hack of the original DDP, didn't try it yet: http://daifukkat.su/2012/02/dodonpachi-arrange/


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Is it an ISO of the PS2 version or Xbox 360 version? DOJ is also available on MAME. I have played all 3 of those versions.  And the iOS version too! It's my favorite DDP easily.


 

 PS2 version. I don't have my Xbox with me. That one I would outright buy-- I normally don't download games unless I a) already legally own them, b) they're import, c) they're stupidly expensive, or d) any combination of the three. Since the Xbox 360 port is relatively available and not _as_ expensive as the others (last time I checked), it would probably seem reasonable to me.
   
  Also the PS2 version supports Tate screen mode, which I'm not sure the Xbox release does. I play any shmup I can in Tate mode, because it makes the best use of my monitor (which I actually bought just for gaming. It's a 23" pivotable non-backlit IPS panel, with ridiculously fast input speed. _Not cheap_, but worth every penny).
   
  But yeah, I vastly prefer DaiOuJou to both the original (which I found once in an arcade... then it vanished) and Dai Fukkatsu, which just sorta... bothers me for some reason. I don't know why.
   
  I also just finished setting up Mushihimesama on here too, again based on the PS2 port. I _love_ it so far, just like I love the iOS version. But it doesn't have quit the same charm as DDP. I have to echo my earlier sentiment about how the touch interface, while fantastic, also really kills some aspects of the game.
   
  Ultra is just as sadistic as ever. I can confirm that the patterns on Normal/Ultra are identical to those on Hell/Ultra in the iOS release. And since Normal is the arcade setting, this means that the patterns in the iOS can in fact reach arcade accurate levels.
   


  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> There's also been a rom hack of the original DDP, didn't try it yet: http://daifukkat.su/2012/02/dodonpachi-arrange/


 

 That looks very cool.
   
  Any update on the stick? Or are you still waiting on parts?
   
  BTW, I should warn you that the pcb for the LS-58 has the ribbon cable reversed compared to the JLF. It's an easy fix, but it scared the crap out of me the first time I swapped them.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> That looks very cool.
> 
> Any update on the stick? Or are you still waiting on parts?
> 
> BTW, I should warn you that the pcb for the LS-58 has the ribbon cable reversed compared to the JLF. It's an easy fix, but it scared the crap out of me the first time I swapped them.


 
   
  There's been a poll about the users favorite shmups on a french board: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.shmup.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D16812
   
  1. Gradius V
 1. Dodonpachi
   
  Yep, parts are headed my way as we speak and thanks for the warning! I was kinda dubious about those two compaies agreeing to use the same connector and was indeed expecting Murphy's law to screw it all up as usual


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> There's been a poll about the users favorite shmups on a french board: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.shmup.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D10%26t%3D16812
> 
> 1. Gradius V
> 1. Dodonpachi
> ...


 
   
  Lol, all these recommendations are making me want to find a way to actually play Gradius V. I've played, and thoroughly enjoyed, most of the other games in the series.
   
  You just have to flip the connector upside-down; it'll work fine. I'm pleasantly surprised that there wasn't any other serious issue.


----------



## leeperry

Just got the LS58 in, OMG it's so responsive and hardly any neutral zone. The JLF is so gone haha


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Just got the LS58 in, OMG it's so responsive and hardly any neutral zone. The JLF is so gone haha


 
   
  Isn't it awesome? I prefer it to the JLF in every possible way, lol. Even for fighters, which really surprised me at first. But once I got used to it, I realized it was just more precise and smooth, and that it was worth the little bit of extra work to hone move combinations.
   
  In other news, I just found out that apparently CAVE filed a cease and desist suit against MAME for incorporating some of the CAVE board BIOS into the emulator system. This happened a little while ago, but I only just read about it while doing some research into the emulator. So it's no longer possible to play CAVE titles on MAME without modifying the emulator software. This kills some of the interest I had in MAME, especially since the titles in question are available elsewhere.
   
  Sadness.


----------



## ZenErik

You can use older versions of MAME.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> You can use older versions of MAME.


 
   
  [looks this up]
   
  OH HEY!
   
  Thanks for the update, lol. Must've missed that.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Isn't it awesome? I prefer it to the JLF in every possible way, lol. Even for fighters, which really surprised me at first. But once I got used to it, I realized it was just more precise and smooth, and that it was worth the little bit of extra work to hone move combinations.


 
   
  It sure seems like it! And I think I prefer the square gate actually, but time will tell. It seems to me that the octo gate on the JLF mostly boiled down to polishing a turd.
   
  BTW, is it normal that the back of the PCB on my LS58 says LS56?


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> It sure seems like it! And I think I prefer the square gate actually, but time will tell. It seems to me that the octo gate on the JLF mostly boiled down to polishing a turd.
> 
> BTW, is it normal that the back of the PCB on my LS58 says LS56?


 
   
  Yes. LS58 uses most of the same components as LS55/56 series, including the PCB. I read that on Shoryouken somewhere, though I can't remember the exact source at the moment.


----------



## leeperry

Oops, I was too tired yesterday...it actually says LS33 on its PCB: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/ls-58-01-thread-and-questions.149387/
   
  and I've put back the square gate, I wish there were a round gate available now haha


----------



## leeperry

OK, it's on like Donkey Kong:
   


 

 

 


   
  The octo JLF feels nice because each direction is very easy to reach, the octo game from Seimitsu is far less edgy....and I've got LS32 springs that could stiff up the JLF to perfection, more tests to run I guess! And I read that the LS58 could become noisy after a while, but hopefully my evil damping scheme would take care of this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'll fire up MAME later


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Oops, I was too tired yesterday...it actually says LS33 on its PCB: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/ls-58-01-thread-and-questions.149387/
> 
> and I've put back the square gate, I wish there were a round gate available now haha


 
   
  BLARGH that's what I meant. The LS56 and LS55 also use a pcb marked LS33. /facepalm
   
  And yeah round would be nice.
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> OK, it's on like Donkey Kong:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's no noisier than the JLF IMO. But then again I haven't put too many hours on it just yet.
   
  Isn't that smoke bubbletop awesome? I love the aesthetic.


----------



## leeperry

So I've played around w/ springs:
   
  -stock JLF + LS32: still too loose
  -LS55: stiff as it should be!
   
  I can't do any other mix as they just won't fit together.
   
  throw distance is still too large but there isn't any more neutral zone than on the stock LS58 anymore, Metal Slug 6 and 1944 Loop Master are hell fun w/ the octo gate...a non-sluggish JLF, who woulda thought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll work out something such as the electrician tape mod in order to shorten the throw distance as well, then I'll try the LS58 and the funnier to use will win my heart 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Then I'll work out a B&W Ikaruga artwork and hard solder all the connections to the parts for an improved electrical contact.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> So I've played around w/ springs:
> 
> -stock JLF + LS32: still too loose
> -LS55: stiff as it should be!
> ...


 
   
  I believe I read somewhere that you can fit the LS55 spring _inside_ the JLF spring or LS32 spring to increase the tension. I have no idea if it works or not, but it might be worth looking into if you've exhausted all other options.
   
  I still need art for mine too. But unfortunately the plexi on mine is painted, so I'll have to cut a new plexi panel (or have one waterjetted-- I'm going to have to ask around to see if I can get it done without having to pay. I have a lot of friends at the machine shops nearby. Otherwise I'll be making it myself.).


----------



## leeperry

Well, mixing two springs is just a kludge...the LS55 spring is perfect IME.
   
  So I've tried the LS58, lucky me that it fit perfectly within the JLF screw holes: 


   
  too bad I really don't like it: the octo gate is not edgy enough, the square gate is boring, the shaft cover is annoying as I always have the feeling that the ball is unscrewing itself, it's too darn clicky and the throw distance is also way too short.
   
  I've also tried to play around w/ a very stiff spring on the JLF, but it was too stiff to make this any fun: 


   
  I guess engineering the perfect spring is not as easy as it seems, as the stock JLF spring is way too loose.
   
  Anyway, when I removed the stock JLF, I noticed that they put a dust cover between the JLF itself and the bottom of the top panel: 



   
  I didn't put it back, and it became a clicky feast! So I've installed true acoustic damping foam in there + two dust covers on top: 
   



   
  Plus the top dust cover of course: 


   
  So anyway, I'm dead set on the octo JLF + LS55 spring, my only last issue is the throw distance that's quite big....I tried to limit it using a marker cap: 


   
  But that didn't really help and it wouldn't stay in place for more than 10 secs anyway ^^
   
  So I tried the electrician tape trick, as shown on that youtube video: 


   
  But it wasn't any better either, I guess the octo JLF is perfect apart from the loose spring.
   
  So now, I need to work out a proper artwork and have it printed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There's no template available, so I'm really not sure how to work it out? I guess I could scan it, resize it to the right dimensions and then work out my own template? Then use some Ikaruga artwork, make it fit within the template, have it printed et voilà? I'm not sure how to cut the holes for the buttons and stick, though?
   
  This said, Soukyugurentai is hell fun! and the soundtrack is amazing! Can't wait to hear Ikaruga and G5 through my USB DAC, as the consoles onboard chips were prolly $0.5 IC's.
   
  Also, the START button doesn't work in RS/MAME and I can't get the Ikaruga GD-ROM to work either..


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, mixing two springs is just a kludge...the LS55 spring is perfect IME.
> 
> So I've tried the LS58, lucky me that it fit perfectly within the JLF screw holes:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I've heard about several sticks that use two dustcovers when fitted with a JLF. Mine is not of the type. Sorry to hear that you can't get it quite right-- but if you've found what works for you, stick with it. I personally love the LS-58. I haven't tried octo JLF, though, so if/when I feel curious I'll give that a try along with some mods. Who knows-- maybe I'll like it even more. But for now I'm satisfied.
   
  Cutting holes in paper is... annoying. The easiest way is to use a punch, but that _never_ works when you want it to. The best method I've found is to use a specialized exacto knife with a rotating blade designed to cut curves. It takes some practice to get used to, but it can make very smooth cuts if and when needed. A normal exacto knife would probably be fine too, you'd just have to be more careful. Scissors are to be avoided at all cost.
   
  I'm running Ikaruga's GC version via Dolphin. It works perfectly for me (with all my gamecube games, actually, it's a fantastic emulator). What problems are you having?


----------



## leeperry

Oh well, I've changed the order, I've put one dust cover right on top of the JLF > patch of acoustic damping foam > top panel > top dust cover > ball. It's the same as before, just less noisy = perfect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The octo gate for the JLF is a god bless in shmups IME, bullets dodging couldn't get any funnier...all it took was a darn LS55 spring, and from what I read on shoryuken many ppl mod all kinds of sticks w/ this spring because it's simply a perfect balance between too loose and too stiff.
   
  I'm surprised to never see 1944 LOOP MASTER in anyone's favorite MAME shmups list, coz it feels like an old school UNDER DEFEAT and it's just pure RAIZING fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yep, I guess I'll scan a stock artwork, work something out, then put it under the top plexiglas panel and use an exacto knife to cut it nicely. But it's slight bigger than a A4 sized sheet, so I would need +300dpi Ikaruga material I think.
   
  I'm talking about the Naomi version of Ikaruga, apparently it can run...but not in MAME.
   
  And I'm quite annoyed that the start button ain't friggin working in RS using MAME, I'm quite sure it used to work before.
   
  Oh well, I'm now more or less set on the hardware side, the software aspect will be a breeze in comparison.


----------



## leeperry

wooha, Ikaruga in MAME is hell slow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7JcUbPrxtc
   
  will fire up Dolphin later


----------



## ZenErik

Ikaruga runs pretty well in nullDC. Or just on a Dreamcast. I wish I could hook up my nicer sticks to the Dreamcast. The Agetec stick is good but not great. I wish I had a better stick for the Wii too. The Tatsunoko vs Capcom stick blows. The buttons are okay but I need to replace the stick..


----------



## leeperry

well, that's the nice thing about building a ultimate stick for your PC: you can use emulators, get killer sound instead of consoles built-in $0.5 IC's and no need for jittery gamepad adapters, swapdiscs for imports/force VGA output, etc etc. One click and you're good, how's that =)
   
  you can even use saved games to unlock everything and no need for USB to memory card adapters either.
   
  the agetec buttons and stick are horrid IMHO.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> wooha, Ikaruga in MAME is hell slow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7JcUbPrxtc
> 
> will fire up Dolphin later


 
   
  As I said, Dolphin works perfectly. I have mine running at higher resolution than native, and I still get 60fps even everywhere in the game. Actually, every game I play works fine with Dolphin with some rare exceptions. I don't have AA on, though, because that _does_ slow Ikaruga down pretty significantly. I messed with the settings on it for a long time before settling on 2x native resolution, no AA and 1x Antisotropic (sp?). This gave perfect FPS, but also a very acceptable graphics quality.
   
  It must be said, however, that I wish I had a slightly stronger system. Because I can only imagine how good Ikaruga and the Metroid Prime series would look with 2x native _and_ 16x AA.
   
  Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Ikaruga runs pretty well in nullDC. Or just on a Dreamcast.


 
   
  See, money is an issue for me right now. Being in college and all. And although I was more than willing to buy Ikaruga for the GC (only $85 new when I did, IIRC), the DC version and need to get a Dreamcast along with it is an obstacle for me. As far as emulating the Dreamcast goes-- as I've said before, I'm very nervous about downloading emulators and games while on the school network, which is very heavily policed. But if you think it's worth the effort compared to the GC version, I might consider it.
   
   
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> well, that's the nice thing about building a ultimate stick for your PC: you can use emulators, get killer sound instead of consoles built-in $0.5 IC's and no need for jittery gamepad adapters, swapdiscs for imports/force VGA output, etc etc. One click and you're good, how's that =)
> 
> you can even use saved games to unlock everything and no need for USB to memory card adapters either.
> 
> the agetec buttons and stick are horrid IMHO.


 
   
  The sound is technically limited first by the emulator itself. The ones I use (Dolphin and PCSX2) have excellent sound plugins to manage this, but strictly speaking it actually goes through two stages of conversion-- the digital-to-digital conversion from the ISO image into the music files proper (which are usually in WAV format unless I'm mistaken, though it varies by game), then the output to the system DAC. _Then_ it gets amped. It still sound way better than the console does on its own, but how much of that is due to emulation as opposed to just superior audio gear is anyone's guess.


----------



## leeperry

well, those consoles use cheapo voltage output DAC chips with very poor sounding built-in I/V stage, a proper USB DAC should make for a drastic SQ improvement.
   
  at some point I was nostalgic of the Gradius V OST, but the commercial CD sounds like ####. The PS2 is not audiophile grade by a long shot.
   
  Anyway, the top artwork looks sweet: http://www.joystickvault.com/data/500/medium/stick07.jpg
   
  I see that my idea is not quite as original as I initially thought: http://www.google.com/search?q=ikaruga+stick&tbm=isch ^^
   
  And this stick has both a plexiglas top panel and uses flat head screws, so it's possible after all: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/check-out-my-new-arcade-stick-no-image-quoting.75228/page-478#post-6873375


----------



## Softdrink 117

NEWS!!!!!!!!!
   
  Mushihime-sama Futari (AKA "Bug Princess 2") is now available for iOS download! It just went on sale this evening. I'm picking it up sometime tonight or tomorrow. Wheee!
   
  Excited.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> well, those consoles use cheapo voltage output DAC chips with very poor sounding built-in I/V stage, a proper USB DAC should make for a drastic SQ improvement.
> 
> at some point I was nostalgic of the Gradius V OST, but the commercial CD sounds like ####. The PS2 is not audiophile grade by a long shot.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is very true. I wasn't saying that the issue was with the console amplification; I was simply making the point that although it will indeed sound vastly better, there are still fundamental hardware limitations imposed by the architecture of the console emulator's audio plugins.
   
  The game has an enormous cult following. I'm not at all surprised to see so many sticks themed after it. The NAOMI with custom Ikaruga panel, though... now THAT is hardcore.


----------



## leeperry

Well, Soukyugurentai sounds eye popping on my rig so my hopes are rather high 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've removed the dorky looking SF artwork off my stick as I couldn't stand looking at it anymore....my stick basically looks like this now: http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3914/hrap3kstick800006.jpg
   
  I've spent quite some time lurking through this failtastic thread: http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/check-out-my-new-arcade-stick-no-image-quoting.75228/page-475
   
  I'm sure those guys must be getting utterly bored of seeing their horrid homemade artworks after a few days, hah!
   
  Anyway, I like this one: http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5381/vxsa01.jpg
   
  I will stick a carbon sticker onto the metal plate and call it a day: http://www.ebay.com/itm/150706251328
   
  Easy do, no need for a template, enough to cover four times the plate in case I goof up, I won't get sick of it after a few days, cheap = perfect 
   
  I'd also fancy black/gray 24mm SANWA buttons, but they didn't bother manufacturing them in anything else than 30mm apparently....HORI had to make a special order of 10K pieces to obtain them, duh. SANWA also have a carbon mesh dark silver balltop but it's $15...I'll stick to the bubbly Seimitsu ^^
   
  Now, all I need is black flat-head screws and I'm good!
   
  And I rest my case that my pimped JLF has a much smaller neutral zone than my stock LS58


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, Soukyugurentai sounds eye popping on my rig so my hopes are rather high
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Your JLF has a smaller neutral zone than the 58!? HOW??
   
  Otherwise, sounds good. I'm a fan of the brushed metal look myself. I'd need to machine a custom plate to do it on my stick, though-- I'm more than willing to do so, but it's extra work either way, and if I make a transparent plexi panel I can at least change my mind every once in a while.
   
  And I agree about the black/gray 24mm. They really should be available that way. But oh well.
   
  Good luck with finishing it all up.
   
  In other, other news, apparently CAVE is slated to release 'a shooter, details yet to be released' for the PS Vita. I have considerable interest in some of the other titles available for the platform. I don't want to spend that kind of money, but this may be the push that finally gets me to buy one. We'll see how reviews of the new game go once it comes out.
   
  Also, been playing Mushihime-sama Futari on my phone a lot. Almost 1cc'ed the game on Original/Hell on two different occasions, once dying an extra time to the stage 4 boss and another dying at the very last second against the final boss...
   
  SIGH. It'll happen soon enough.


----------



## leeperry

well, they don't even have the OBSF24 in gray, I wouldn't mind hacking the plungers and installing them into my black buttons...ah well, black it is then.
   
  this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L67fUfH3S5o


> did this with the ls-55 spring in my jlf. it's amazing


 
   
  I just tried Ikaruga/Naomi in Demul, SQ is poor and it's full of misbehaving sprites...also even though it says 60fps it feels sluggish. And going FS is blinking as hell huh.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> well, they don't even have the OBSF24 in gray, I wouldn't mind hacking the plungers and installing them into my black buttons...ah well, black it is then.
> 
> this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L67fUfH3S5o
> 
> I just tried Ikaruga/Naomi in Demul, SQ is poor and it's full of misbehaving sprites...also even though it says 60fps it feels sluggish. And going FS is blinking as hell huh.


 
   
  I understand that the spring has been improved. Your comment made it sound like you had changed the throw on the switches, which is why I was curious. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
   
  Sorry to hear you're having trouble. As I've said before, it works fine for me on Dolphin. I've heard of people emulating the NAOMI version, but I've also heard of people having issues with it due to the GD-ROM system. I hope you can resolve the issues quickly.


----------



## Makiah S

Have I mentioned yet that I do love the Dream Cast Shumps, I don't remember the name of one of them... but it's was mecha themed and absoultey stunning visually


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Have I mentioned yet that I do love the Dream Cast Shumps, I don't remember the name of one of them... but it's was mecha themed and absoultey stunning visually


 
   
  Mecha themed? Ikaruga certainly has mecha influences, but I'm not sure that's what you're referring to. Looking up 'dreamcast shmup' and 'mecha' on google gets some hits for a game called 'Mars Matrix' -- is that what you mean?
   
  Other news, tried playing Perfect Cherry Blossom again. It's been a long time since last I played one of the Touhou titles. Got to stage five, midway through, then ran out of lives. I consider that a decent start.


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> I understand that the spring has been improved. Your comment made it sound like you had changed the throw on the switches


 
   
  The JLF is a fine piece of engineering, all it needed was a stiffer spring. I've tried to narrow its throw but that didn't really work....the LS55 spring + octo gate truly turn a chump into a champ as they say ^^
   
  and I think the LS58 is clicky as hell because of the long thin metal plates that stand between the rod and the switches...terrible idea really.
   
  Humm, Border Down is quite fun


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> The JLF is a fine piece of engineering, all it needed was a stiffer spring. I've tried to narrow its throw but that didn't really work....the LS55 spring + octo gate truly turn a chump into a champ as they say ^^
> 
> and I think the LS58 is clicky as hell because of the long thin metal plates that stand between the rod and the switches...terrible idea really.
> 
> Humm, Border Down is quite fun


 
   
  The reason I like the LS58 is because of the levered microswitches (levers are those metal plates you mentioned). They decrease the effective deadzone and the throw/actuation point of the switches by using the actuator of the microswitch as the fulcrum for the movement of the lever. It's actually a totally ingenious solution.
   
  But if you prefer your setup, then that's fine too. I prefer it this way.
   
  It _is_ clicky as hell though, and I need to damp it soon. Over the summer, when I dual mod my stick with a Paewang pcb, I'll probably overhaul the damping.
   
  Also, I feel morally obligated to post a link to this blog here:
http://www.cave-stg.com
   
  It's basically all about CAVE shooters, and it's got a fantastic amount of information and resources along with a comprehensive forum.
   
  Which brings me to my second point:
  I've decided that I will be buying an NTSC/J Xbox. I'm not sure when, but I won't be satisfied until I can play the console releases of CAVE's games in true arcade style. I don't really have the money for that right now, but I will find a way to work it out.
   
  Also, beat Mushihime-sama Futari on Original/Hell a few minutes ago. What a rush. The last level... _damn_. No other words to describe it. It ended up being a 3cc-- I died once accidentally on stage 2 and twice accidentally on stage 3, and used my first continue against stage 4's boss. From there I made it through all of stage 5 on one go, except the final boss, who I hadn't fought before, hence the last continue. Here's the fun bit-- my score for stage 5 was almost as large as my total stage score for levels 1-4. Which means that if I hadn't died and continued, my score would have been at least double what it currently is.


----------



## ZenErik

Stage 3 in Futari is a bitch.


----------



## Softdrink 117

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Stage 3 in Futari is a bitch.


 
   
  Yeah, it is. The final section and boss killed me I don't know how many times before I learned their patterns-- not really looking forward to doing that again, lol. Really fun though.
   
  In Mushihime-sama, my favorite stages are 3 (which is a _huge_ PITA on Maniac and Ultra) and 5, which is just fun. Futari my favorites are 4 & 5, and I strongly dislike 2. The final stages of both games, in my opinion, are absolutely excellent-- totally frantic, with wave after wave of enemies and multiple midbosses before you finally get to the end.
   
  One thing that surprised me about Futari, coming from the first game, is how many 'bullet cancels' there are. In the first game, there are some-- enough that it feels fair, but not so many that you actively think, 'oh, I can kill this guy and the shots will disappear.' In Futari there are a LOT more cancels, especially on stage 3, where every ten or twenty seconds there will be a large enemy that clears the screen when killed. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does change the way I approach some sections of the game.


----------



## Softdrink 117

So I just placed an order for an NTSC/J X360 and two of CAVE's ports-- the upcoming Mushihime-sama HD release and the Daifukkatsu double pack.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It was quite pricey. Like something I might expect from this hobby. Only not.
   
  Suffice to say I'm very excited. I'll also need to buy a Paewang for purposes of dual modding my arcade stick when I get home. But it will all be worth it.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Mecha themed? Ikaruga certainly has mecha influences, but I'm not sure that's what you're referring to. Looking up 'dreamcast shmup' and 'mecha' on google gets some hits for a game called 'Mars Matrix' -- is that what you mean?
> 
> Other news, tried playing Perfect Cherry Blossom again. It's been a long time since last I played one of the Touhou titles. Got to stage five, midway through, then ran out of lives. I consider that a decent start.


 

 It was Irkaruga I saw the name in the posts above and it hit me,
   
  I played it on the Dream Cast and it was stunning, still is stunning
   
  Proably not the best Shump to even mention but :3 GunBird 2 was tons o fun for me. I enjoy shumps mostly for teh visuals as I still really suck at them so xD I can never play for to long lol


----------



## Softdrink 117

Well apparently this thread has sort of died. q.q
   
  My stuff arrived, and I am loving it. Ketsui is beyond fantastic, and totally deserves all the praise it gets. It and DaiOuJou are probably my current favorite CAVE shmups-- something about the absolutely brutal difficulty keeps me coming back to those two. I'm currently trying to learn DaiOuJou with A-L, which is both fun and frustrating given the relative obscurity of that combination's use in superplays and the like.
   
  I've sunk a few hours already into each of the ports, and have been enjoying them all immensely.
   
  Any news? Updates?


----------



## Brad Murphy

Quote: 





zenerik said:


> BTW, if you do ever get a Q4 RAF, I recommend just getting the regular black model. Qanba seems to have great customer service so I am sure they will be willing to help if it really does bother me. And Videogames New York, whom I bought it from, will also help me out.


 
   
  I got the Qanba 4RAF Blackout edition a month ago and love it. However, it is causing MK2011 to desynch online--on both consoles. As for their customer service: There isn't any. I wrote to them and they said, "Post it in the Official Qanba thread on Shoryuken." That's it. No help whatsoever.
   
  Quote: 





zenerik said:


> Looks like the Eightarc Fusion is a good option for those that complain about the QanBa Q4's start button placement. Apparently, accidentally pressing start in a fighting game tournament will get you disqualified.
> 
> The only downsides to the Eightarc Fusion sticks are the "mode" button is replaced by "start", lack of a handle, and higher price. I do not think the missing "mode" button would be much of an issue, but perhaps on certain games it may be. "mode" allows you to switch from digital to analog controls on the stick. The stick remains 8 way, but it resolves potential compatibility issues with some doujin games. The handle is a nice touch but not a deal breaker for me. And the price difference does not matter to me but may to some.


 
   
  I hit the Start button as well when I configured the game to use only the buttons on the far right. I don't think it's a good placement position. Should be on the top like the Madcatz TE. When I have the stick in d-pad mode (light on) it will desynch the game online every time. If I use the analog mode (light off) it will desynch anywhere from every time to 1-in-5, to 1-in-10, or completely random. I got it from ArcadeShock and they aren't returning any emails I send, so it looks like I'm stuck with it. Very very disappointing.  
   
****EDIT****
*Problem solved! Apparently changing the button mapping causes the game to desynch online. With default settings there is no issue. *


----------



## leeperry

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Well apparently this thread has sort of died. [..]
> Any news? Updates?


 
   
  Well, as much as I like my Sanwa stick, I find it too laggy and the buttons hell too noisy.......I just pulled the trigger on 8 of those in Dark Hai color: http://www.focusattack.com/search.php?search_query=Silent
   
  The stick is too pricey and of course they don't sell the silent microswitches separately huh...
   
  For the lack of responsiveness, I will solder the wires that come off the PCB directly onto the crimp-on connectors, and if it still feels laggy I will solder them directly onto the buttons or possibly switch PCB's.
   
  I've already fully damped my JLF so it's entirely bearable, but the stock OSBF30 really aren't...the youtube video of the new buttons looks really cool!


----------



## Softdrink 117

Oh hey, things happened. And I missed them, lol.
   
  Regarding joysticks, I stand by the LS-58 as my current favorite. I've tried out the LS-32 and like it a lot, but not enough to warrant switching. JLFs are still too loose for my liking given the amount of shmupping I do, but they're not as bad as I remember them being.
   
  Brad, glad you figured it out. My stick is basically a factory-modded Q3, so unfortunately I don't know much about the Q4 line. It seems weird to me that changing button mapping would have that kind of effect, but... _shrug_.
   
  leeperry, I believe that the difference between the silent and regular switches is 50% the microswitch and 50% that a new damping pad is added inside the button itself. There are some people who've made their own pads with some success, but I can't think of any specific links at the moment. I actually preordered a set of HBFS-30 buttons, which are being developed independently via an Indiegogo campaign. They use Cherry MX series microswitches, so theoretically should offer much better instantaneous feedback while also quieting inputs. If the new silent buttons aren't working out how you'd like, I can let you know how these ones are. One of the designer's goals was to create a smoother _and_ quieter button. 
   
  I've sorta been going nuts with shmups. I ended up spending about half the summer buying, cleaning, repairing, and modifying an imported arcade cabinet that I bought from a reseller in the Bay Area. It's a Sega Blast City, a very nice model with a 27" CRT. I've since built an adapter to connect my Xbox 360 to the cab, and really enjoyed the ability to play all the Cave ports on an actual arcade machine. Excuse the crap cell phone pic.
   

  Then school started, so I left the thing at home. Sadness ensued.
   
  Last weekend I went to a Long Beach Shmupmeet, which was definitely an awesome experience. I got to play a whole bunch of amazing games, meet similarly-minded people, buy a Cave T-shirt, and perhaps most importantly, got a chance to try Dodonpachi Saidaioujou. It's a fantastic game, and I can't wait for the port to arrive next year.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





softdrink 117 said:


> Oh hey, things happened. And I missed them, lol.
> 
> Regarding joysticks, I stand by the LS-58 as my current favorite. I've tried out the LS-32 and like it a lot, but not enough to warrant switching. JLFs are still too loose for my liking given the amount of shmupping I do, but they're not as bad as I remember them being.
> 
> ...


 
   
  ... Wow... that's really awesome!


----------



## leeperry

Finally got ahold of the silent SANWA buttons, I also installed the alternate artwork that came with my arcade stick, and tada:
   



   
  I will now seek black screws and solder the wires that come off the PCB directly onto the buttons and that project will finally be over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I thought about using flat screws and dremel'ing my way into the plexiglass top but tbh I don't think that I will ever bother doing that, and even though I got a spare top, I just make sure to not touch the screws et voilà problem solved.
   
  Anyway, thanks for creating this thread as my last attempt at installing a stock JLF and regular SANWA buttons into a dreamcast agetec years ago failed big time because:
  -the tiny stock "start button" was light green and whatever color scheme looked ugly
  -the silent SANWA buttons didn't friggin exist yet
  -I had to no way of sourcing LS50 springs and I really hated the loose spring of the JLF.
  -I used a PSX PCB that introduced lag with PC USB adapters
  = I really couldn't find any fun using it so I sold it.
   
  Needless to say that this new stick is as good as it gets as:
  -it's pretty darn silent, I stuffed every cavity with acoustic foam and the silent SANWA's barely make any noise once I have headphones fitted...the high-pitched plastic noise of regular SANWA's was literally turning me crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5fRg8lT3gA
  -the LS55 spring on the JLF is neither too noisy, too stiff or too loose.....a combo made in heaven with the octo gate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  = focusattack.com has really provided all the solutions to my requirements, so grateful!
   
  Ketsui is mad fun! Next stop is this new game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaO1djQMhF4


----------



## leeperry

Oh, maybe it's not my PCB's that lag after all: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=30659
  Quote: 





> it turns out that mame emulates a frame/sprite buffer for most arcade hardware. What I found out is that this buffer can “safely” be removed


 
   
  The author also says that you can cap the fps to 60 and overclock the board CPU by 400%, that would supposedly do wonders in DDP..gotta love how the rabbit hole literally never ends


----------



## HalidePisces

Anyone tried out Caladrius?


----------



## Neccros

Anyone still playing Shmups????  Tons of them on Steam lately


----------



## SilverEars

Love this genre!  Lots of great Shmups.  Notably from Raizing/8ing or Cave.  Visuals are fantastic.

Are there any notable ones that were recently developed?  The genre has been fading away.


----------



## Neccros

SilverEars said:


> Love this genre!  Lots of great Shmups.  Notably from Raizing/8ing or Cave.  Visuals are fantastic.
> 
> Are there any notable ones that were recently developed?  The genre has been fading away.



Its far from fading... there are a ton of good ones on Steam for the PC and of all things I hear the Switch has like 30 shmups for it... But take that with a grain of salt, That might include different genres of shmups. Also there are a bunch on the PS4 if I recall (I dont own one....yet)


----------



## SilverEars




----------



## gr8soundz

Reminds me of Gunbird on the Dreamcast.


----------



## gr8soundz

Searched and can't believe no one mentioned Gate of Thunder and Lords of Thunder. Incredible soundtracks too.


----------



## SilverEars




----------



## SilverEars (Feb 1, 2018)




----------



## jguest

gr8soundz said:


> Reminds me of Gunbird on the Dreamcast.


Haven't thought about that game in a long time!! haha


----------



## Tex Irie

Zero Gunner II, Einhander, Gyruss, UN Squadron.. Life Force, Darius Series, Strikers 19xx Series...


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 4, 2020)

Just ran into this platformer.  Looks good in a retro way.  Looks like inspired by Contra, maybe can be called the latest Contra.

I think sprite games was an art form.  



Short Docu of the developers


----------

