# LCD-2 and LCD-3 Owners - which aftermarket cable do you use?



## Wulvy

Just paid for my LCD-2 and its only a week away. I'm after some opinions on cables specifically from LCD-2 owners with aftermarket cables.
   
  I've tried to search the forum with limited success. It seems the ALO Chain Mail is a popular choice but on the more expensive side...


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## MacedonianHero

I own the Moon Audio Silver Dragon and absolutely am very happy with it. No microphonics....very light (unlike the uber heavy stock cable), improved mids/treble response with a slightly better sense of air.
   
  I did think of the ALO cable, but the reports of it being really heavy had me look elsewhere. Not to mention, I think the LCD-2s really benefit from a silver cable.


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## Happy Camper

I'd like to hear the LCD-2 with a silver cable. Ohhh, the possibilities.


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## Wulvy

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I own the Moon Audio Silver Dragon and absolutely am very happy with it. No microphonics....very light (unlike the uber heavy stock cable), improved mids/treble response with a slightly better sense of air.
> 
> I did think of the ALO cable, but the reports of it being really heavy had me look elsewhere. Not to mention, I think the LCD-2s really benefit from a silver cable.


 

 Yes I see the Moon Audio Silver Dragon is also popular. One user in the LCD-2 thread said he bought the Silver Dragon and didn't like it so returned it. He claimed it was good in terms of mid/treble but it took away from the bass. Apart from that have only heard good things.
   
  Would be interesting to see how the Silver Dragon and ALO Chain Mail compare. Has anyone heard both?
   


  Quote: 





happy camper said:


> I'd like to hear the LCD-2 with a silver cable. Ohhh, the possibilities.


 


  Yes I've heard the LCD-2 is voiced quite darkly and silver cables are supposed to aid treble response. Apparently if the LCD-2 is matched to the right amp and using a balanced cable it can go a long way to help correct this, and others say its "darkness" is a more natural response and most other high end headphones have an unnatural treble boost which some prefer.


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## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wulvy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 To repeat, I hear no effects on the bass. If one concentrates on the bass, (at least with my ears) there are no deleterious effects on impact in any way. The slightly improved treble/mid response make portray a slight decrease in bass overall, but when using bass frequency sweeps and my ears/SPL meter....the bass is unchanged.


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## Skylab

I bought both the ALO cable and the Moon Silver Dragon. Both were an improvement over the stock cable. I marginally preferred the sound of the ALO, but found it too heavy and cumbersome, and so I sold it, and kept the Silver Dragon, which is very good sounding and also very nice ergonomically.


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## Equus

I use the ALO cable.  It is, as Skylab mentions, pretty bulky, but I'm usually listening to my LCD-2 while reclined, so the weight doesn't factor in as much for me.


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## Wulvy

Thanks for all the input from everyone I appreciate it.
   
  I ended up going with the Norse Audio cable... OCC like ALO and awesome aesthetics. Cheap price too.


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## Frihed89

I had an 11 feet length of Audio Note (UK) AN-Vx silver interconnect cable that i am using.  It definitely is more resolving than the stock cable.  The rest is hard to tell as I have replaced the coupling and output caps in my SinglePower MPX3 Slam SE with some "upmarket" types that take a while to work in.  However, I am convinced that this amp drives these headphones easily, no matter what tubes I use.
   
  What/where/who is Norse Audio that is making a cable for the LCD-2?  I can't find anything on Google that doesn't take me back to headfi.org where I've not been able to find any information, just pictures, no information about a website or how these cables are constructed.


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## Equus

If I'm not mistaken, Norse Audio is Tigzstudio's venture.


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## sachu

ALO Audio...love it


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## GeorgeGoodman

I don't own the LCD-2 and don't plan to as I can't afford it, but I listened to it with the Chain Mail Copper cable and that was a huge, heavy cable. I don't think it really bothered me, in fact I liked the look, but it may bother others. And of course I can't comment on the sound as it was noisy in the room and I have never heard them with the stock cable.


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## Wulvy

Frihed89, it is a venture by Tigzstudio as Equus said.
   
  He is launching a website which he said is planned to be released on the February 1. Until then he is offering a promo price on his cable. He can be emailed at norseaudio@gmail.com
   
  My cable shipped within 48 hours of paying, great service. Hopefully its comparable to the ALO and Moon-Audio SDv3. One user in the LCD-2 forums is going to directly compare it against the Moon-Audio SDv3 soon.


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## Equus

If anyone in the Pacific Northwest have aftermarket cables, the next Seattle area meet is scheduled for March 5th.  I'll be there with ALO chainmail cabled LCD-2s in tow.


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## Frihed89

Thanks for the help on Norse Audio.


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## Frihed89

To those of you who were in favor of silver, I can highly recommend AN-Vx cable.  This is an interconnect cable and has to be terminated properly.  You can buy the cable from Audio Note dealers in the US, like Amherst Audio (MA), Audio Federation (CO) and Deja Vu (DC), among others.  It's the best interconnect I have found so far (except for higher priced AN cable) for any of my equipment connections or headphones (the second best being Audio Note Lexus, a copper cable). They are pricey, though.


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## ctemkin

I see the OP has already ordered a cable, and the comments I have seen on Tigzstudio's cable have all been very complimentary.
   
  I just thought I would post, for the benefit of future LCD-2 owners considering aftermarket cables and looking at this thread, that I have been very pleased with a balanced Whiplash TWag cable.  Mechanically, it's great--light, flexible, nonmicrophonic.  Sonically, it seemed to me that the treble response and soundstage improved somewhat, although not to the point of making it sound like the HD 800.  Several factors may have been responsible--the cable material, the cable construction, or going from SE to balanced.


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## jeffinator

ALO Audio cable ftw.


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## SteveM324

I'm a Moon Audio fan (I own the 2 Black Dragon cables and a Blue Dragon as well).  I bought the Silver Dragon for my LCD2 and burned it in for more than 300 hrs.  It was not my cup of tea so I returned it and ordered the ALO Chain Mail cable which I like a lot better.  The Silver Dragon brightened up the sound too much and I felt the bass wasn't as good (compared to the stock cable).  The ALO cable IMO is better in every way compared to the SD.  The bass is much much better and dynamics are a lot better as well.   I agree that the weight of the ALO is greater but it doesn't bother me at all and to me the sound quality of the SD isn't even close to the ALO.    Drew at Moon Audio is a great guy and when I returned the Silver Dragon it was no hassle at all so there is no risk if you want to trial it.


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## PascalT

I went back to Peter at Double Helix Cables for a cable.. will post my impressions on the forum when I get it. I'll be interested to see the difference with the stock cable.


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## KevinR70

I replaced the stock cable with an AproditeCU Zeus OCC quad 22 cable.  Nice upgrade.


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## gogogasgas

I thought the following links might help everyone with the different headphone cables that are being discussed in this thread:
   
Whiplash Audio, Norse Audio, Cardas Audio, ALO Audio, Audionote, Moon Audio, Double Helix, Zeus.


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## gogogasgas

I'm very wary of silver cables as many (most?) are known to induce sonic aberrations into the audio chain. For example, emphasising the higher frequencies giving an illusion of more detail. Furthermore, bass performance is sometimes compromised.
   
  The LCD-2 measures and performs 'reasonably' flat across the audio spectrum. By adding cables that colour (ie distort) that sonic presentation, you are messing with one of the very things that has made the LCD-2 famous in a very short time - its neutrality.
   
On a different note, has anyone had good/bad/indifferent experiences with _Cardas headphone c__ables_?


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## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> I'm very wary of silver cables as many (most?) are known to induce sonic aberrations into the audio chain. For example, emphasising the higher frequencies giving an illusion of more detail. Furthermore, bass performance is sometimes compromised.
> 
> The LCD-2 measures and performs 'reasonably' flat across the audio spectrum. By adding cables that colour (ie distort) that sonic presentation, you are messing with one of the very things that has made the LCD-2s famous in a very short time - its neutrality.
> 
> On a different note, has anyone had good/bad/indifferent experiences with _Cardas headphone c__ables_?


 

 That is simply not true IMO. Cheap silver and cheap copper can sound bad. But properly built silver cables will not introduce "sonic aberrations". Silver is a better conductor of electricity and what you are hearing (assuming a good pure silver cable with proper dielectric and connectors) is a better representation of what's on the recording. My experiences with very well made silver cables (Kimber Silver Streak RCA and Moon Audio Silver Dragon) is that there is no affect to the bass whatsoever. The mids are more liquid and the treble better defined. I found the with the stock cable, the LCD-2's mids/treble/sound stage improved while there was no deleterious effects to to the bass.
   
  The issue is the price of silver (much more than copper) so finding a cable manufacturer that uses 99.9999% silver is harder than one that uses 99.9999% copper.


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## gogogasgas

OK, we agree to disagree. Some interesting info *here*.


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## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> OK, we agree to disagree. Some interesting info *here*.


 

 Sorry but that site is hardly one that I would take seriously (a rather obscure cable manufacturer). Can I ask you what your personal experiences are with good silver interconnects/cables?
   
  Can you please explain why Kimber Kable and Nordost  (very highly reputable and respectable cable manufacturers) select silver for some of their very best cables? There is no question that silver is the better conductor of the two.


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## Red Jacket Mike

If you listen to music seated near your amp, and you feel that your cable is too heavy, it is probably too short.  I bought a 10 foot Norse Audio cable for my LCD2s, which is long enough for it to rest on the floor between my chair and my equipment rack.  No weight issues at all.  The cable also sounds and looks great, and the workmanship is top notch.
   
  I'm hoping Trevor will soon be making similar cables terminated for the HD800s; he said he eventually will make them for all of the current top phones, but next up are cables for the HE6.


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## gogogasgas

macedonianhero said:


> Sorry but that site is hardly one that I would take seriously (a rather obscure cable manufacturer). Can I ask you what your personal experiences are with good silver interconnects/cables?
> 
> Can you please explain why Kimber Kable and Nordost  (very highly reputable and respectable cable manufacturers) select silver for some of their very best cables? There is no question that silver is the better conductor of the two.


 
  Cables seem to get everyone fired-up. I thought that the webpage behind the link I posted contained some good no-nonsense info.
   
  Obviously, many things in audio are subjective and I was just putting the alternate view out there about the 'sound' of silver cables. As for my experience, aside from trying different cables in showrooms and at home, I had a tonearm rewired from headshell to RCAs with expensive silver wire. It sounded better with its stock OFC copper than it did with the silver. (I outlined what I believe is the sonic signature of silver cable in my other post) Sold the arm not long after that.
   
  As for cable manufacturers who sell copper cables in their top offerings, Cardas and Tara Labs come to mind.
   
  Anyway, back to the reports on suitable after-market cables for the LCD-2s. Lots of good stuff posted so far.


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## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry but that site is hardly one that I would take seriously (a rather obscure cable manufacturer). Can I ask you what your personal experiences are with good silver interconnects/cables?
> ...


 

 Not really fired up. But a single experience with a silver cable should not limit one to completely forsake the metal. It is a better conductor no doubt, but as well, terminations, dielectric used, braiding sequence can also affect the sound. Can I ask you who made the "expensive silver wire". So the generalizations that you made in your first post are a little too presumptuous IMO.
   
  The biggest reason why copper is used is price. It is cheaper than silver. Copper is the second best conductor out there (next to silver), but can be had for substantially lower prices. There is also the issue of system matching/optimization. Would I pair silver interconnects with my Concerto and HD800s....likely not. But definitely with my LCD-2s and one of my tube amps. That point I think is too often glossed over. YMMV of course...


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## gogogasgas

Aside from Hero's silver options, any more reports on cable combos for the LCD-2? I want a cable that is really neutral. I've been doing some looking on ye olde internet and Cardas' other cables (as in the company's interconnects) seem to get reviews that mention colourations of one kind or another. Which of the other headphone cables mentioned thus far in this thread would fit the 'neutral' description?
   
I just found the following on the 6-Moons site. It's an interview with Ken Ball from ALO Audio:
   
"Thus far some of the more favorable vendors are Grado, Ultrasone, SoundMAGIC (fantastic in-ear monitors), Audio Technica, Sennheiser, Westone, Maximo (fantastic affordable in-ear headphones), AKG, Monster and *Audeze*. These latter guys are good friends and their LCD2 planar headphones are amazing. I am going to carry their LCD2 as a dealer in solid numbers. *I am also working to supply them with a headphone cable specifically built as an upgrade path for their LCD2*"
   
Those ALO Audio cables look terrific. And, at the risk of opening the flood-gates, dare I say the silver-coated copper cables look very tasty. Best of both worlds or master of neither? Anyone tried the ALO silver/copper combo cables? OK, and since I may be willing to break my 'never again' vow in relation to pure silver cables, has anyone tried pure silver cables (other than Dragon) with the LCD-2s?


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## gogogasgas

Looking at what's available in headphone cables for the LCD-2s, it dawned on me that you could use a pair of quality balanced interconnects and just have one end re-terminated with mini XLRs. That way, the range of headphone cable options becomes much larger. Or, because the cables are running between an amplifier and a speaker, would I need to use speaker cable rather than interconnect cable because of impedance issues?
   
Are there major differences in the sonic qualities of cables that are sold as dedicated headphone cables versus a modified (as outlined above) quality interconnect or speaker cable? Are there drawbacks to the pathway? Is it hard to get some (as in thick/wide/multi-strand) cables into those small mini XLRs?
   
Trawling the Headfi site, I found a link to a Neutrik mini XLR. Which would work with the LCD-2s.
   
Since Hero was so adamant about the superiority of silver cables, I have been looking around the world for suitable options. I think I have found what looks like a contender for the best silver headphone cable that is more-or-less off-the-shelf...
   
  The brand is Artisan Silver Cables and the model is 'SILVER DREAM'. Although the one on the webpage is made for Sennheisers, they can make an XLR/Mini XLR version (and single ended as well I imagine) as a special order. A quick scan for positive reviews yielded good results. The earlier version of the cable was a bit fragile and was discontinued. They beefed it up and made it longer too. Here is the link: *Artisan*.
   
  The downside is the Artisans are nearly twice the price of the Silver Dragons. But are they twice as good?


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## coolcat

I am waiting for the Apursound V3 cable(which is silver cable with copper core) .I hope It will match my LCD2,but actually I don't have much problem with the recess high of  LCD2(same to currawong " tubes rolling"). You may use some Nordost interconnects or wattgate AG plug etc to fix this. There are many ways to do.
  About the Cardas cable : I think it's up to you to decide if it matchs the LCD2 or not.If you like to add warmth or weight to the LCD2 (that's  I don't think it's necessary),you problaby like the Cardas,but if you want the LCD2 to open up a little bit ,the Silver cable IMO (like many here said)  should be the way to go.
   
   
  I hope I will post my impression of the V3 compared to the Stock cable ( I think it's canare, right?),when I get it.
   
   
  by the way, if you're good at DIY ,you can order the TwCu or TwAG or TWSPC from http://www.cryo-parts.com/index.php/cryoparts.


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## HK_sends

I posted in the LCD-2 forum that I didn't care for the Silver Dragon cable. It just didn't have the sound I was looking for. I have the 8-wire Norse and the newest Audez'e cable, the ADZ-5 (traded the old one for this...never listened to the original stock cable), and just got the Blue Dragon in to replace the Silver Dragon. The Blue Dragon was very surprising. The Norse cable has a full, rich sound (but has problems with microphonics) and the ADZ-5 is a bit warm but listenable. However, the Blue Dragon has impressed me the most. There seems to be a slight sense of reduced bass, but it sounds tighter and more controlled...not muddy at all (or overpowering). Also, the high end doesn't sound recessed at all. I am listening to the LCD-2s with the Schiit Asgard until my Lyr gets here. I am amazed at the detail I am able to pick out with the Blue Dragon. It's only got a couple of hours burn-in, but appears to be the cable with the sound I have been looking for.

After the Lyr gets here, I will retest the Norse, ADZ-5, and Blue Dragon again and see which is the keeper.
This was all IMHO & YMMV! :biggrin:

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## nigeljames

I vote for the silver TWAG-2 cable.
  I loved the LCD's with the stock cable and never considered them dull or dark sounding (but would never call them bright)
   
  I find the TWAG brings the hf's forward abit more and makes them slightly clearer and cleaner. It also added more air/space so the sound and increased definition and separation of the bass. Soundstaging also seems to have become more defined but I am not a soundstage freak so I can't be certain of this.
   
  This is on my Woo6se to take away the balanced aspect,its a balanced cable, that I get when used on my Roc. Highly recommended if you want the benifits of silver.


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## kwkarth

My vote is for the Q-Black Magic cable.  It's balanced with a TRS adapter for SE use, is gossamer light and flexible, and sounds wonderful!
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/60#post_7285014
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/45#post_7284268


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## HK_sends

I'm sure I have a kindney to spare for it!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> My vote is for the Q-Black Magic cable.  It's balanced with a TRS adapter for SE use, is gossamer light and flexible, and sounds wonderful!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/60#post_7285014
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/45#post_7284268


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> I'm very wary of silver cables as many (most?) are known to induce sonic aberrations into the audio chain. For example, emphasising the higher frequencies giving an illusion of more detail. Furthermore, bass performance is sometimes compromised.
> 
> The LCD-2 measures and performs 'reasonably' flat across the audio spectrum. *By adding cables that colour (ie distort) that sonic presentation, *you are messing with one of the very things that has made the LCD-2 famous in a very short time - its neutrality.
> 
> On a different note, has anyone had good/bad/indifferent experiences with _Cardas headphone c__ables_?


 

 How does a cable distort the sonic presence? Have you any measurements of the different cables discussed here that shows to what extent each causes distortion?


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> My vote is for the Q-Black Magic cable.  It's balanced with a TRS adapter for SE use, is gossamer light and flexible, and sounds wonderful!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/60#post_7285014
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/45#post_7284268


 


  Since so many people have so many opinions on what cable sounds best and the different cable makers all say their cable sounds best, but use different means of construction, is there anything other than opinion to base a decision on?
   
  In other words, any proof? Or does that mean we have to go to Sound Science?


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## Skylab

There will probably NEVER be any "Proof" that cables have any impact on the sound, other than peoples' opinions.  And in the end, it is only your own opinion that matters.  But if you require "proof", I suggest that you either stick with the stock cable, or buy an aftermarket with a return policy.


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## Skylab

Well this is a DBT free forum so I will not discuss that.  But my main reason for the upgrade in cable was actually ergonomics, not sound.  The stock cable was too stiff and too microphonic.


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## HK_sends

Well, after listening to my LCD-2s using one new stock and three high-end cables from the same source/amp and using the same music, settings and volume within a very short period of time, I know that I, at least, notice distinct differences in sound.  And that's really all that matters to me.
   
  Plus, I am supporting small businesses...just doing my part to help the economy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So far, out of the cables I have, the Blue Dragon impresses me the most.  That may change when the Schiit Lyr gets here though...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


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## Red Jacket Mike

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well this is a DBT free forum so I will not discuss that.  But my main reason for the upgrade in cable was actually ergonomics, not sound.  The stock cable was too stiff and too microphonic.


 

 Same here.  To me, the (old) stock cable was extremely stiff, microphonic, and just not that nice looking on a 1K pair of headphones.  I went with the Norse Audio cable, for less microphonics, better looks, high quality materials and construction, and great service from Trevor.  
   
  I don't really detect any sonic differences between the stock cable and the Norse, but I was able to get a 10 foot 8 wire cable for $200.00, which is less than half the price of the ALO, and even less than some other options, and I'm extremely happy with it.  
   
  10 feet in length allows it to rest on the floor while I'm listening, which to me is important for reducing microphonics; it also eliminates the weight problem.  As a matter of fact, even with the stock cable's faults, if it had been 10 or more feet long, I probably would have kept using it.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> Since so many people have so many opinions on what cable sounds best and the different cable makers all say their cable sounds best, but use different means of construction, is there anything other than opinion to base a decision on?
> 
> In other words, any proof? Or does that mean we have to go to Sound Science?


 
  Yes, any time you demand "proof" of a subjective opinion, then you've left the realm of 
 Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) and entered the realm of the sound science forum.  Most of the posts in this thread are individual head-fier's opinions.  You don't have to accept someone else's opinion, and you're not being asked to.  By the same token, no one else has to accept your opinion.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Yes, any time you demand "proof" of a subjective opinion, then you've left the realm of


 


> Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) and entered the realm of the sound science forum.


 

 There is no legitimate demand of "proof" of a subjective opinion either here or on Sound Science forum. One's subjective experience is what it is whatever the reason for it may be, and unless you're going to call them a liar, there's nothing to prove.
   
  It's only objective claims that come with the burden of proof.
   
  se


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## llama_egg

As I've only stepped into the foray of high-end audio, I've never played with different cables, though I can honestly say I'm truthfully skeptical. _But_, saying that, I do intend to try a after-market cable, maybe a Norse cable, they do _look_ nice and it doesn't seem _too_ pricey. In other words, I'm not saying aye or nay in regards to them, or should I say not until I personally try it myself.
   
  I doubt if we'll see any hard proof any time soon, if at all in regards to the cable argument. I do believe people deserve to know both sides of the story though, and in the end, it's up to the end user to formulate an opinion. I think the biggest problem I have is it seems as though people seem to constantly bash each others opinion about the subject at hand, and that's just silly. But that's neither here nor there.


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## K3cT

I went with Silver Dragon v3 because the cable is very, very nice to handle. I'm thinking of changing the internal cable as well but that depends on whether I'm drunk enough to do it or not.


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## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> There is no legitimate demand of "proof" of a subjective opinion either here or on Sound Science forum. One's subjective experience is what it is whatever the reason for it may be, and unless you're going to call them a liar, there's nothing to prove.
> 
> It's only objective claims that come with the burden of proof.
> 
> se


 

 I asked if there was proof of gogogasgas comment about cables and sonic distortion, which is a claim and not an opinion. I also asked if there was any proof over all, but now know all this is is opinion (at times worded so it appears to be a claim).
   
  Sorry for upsetting anyone.


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## Currawong

This thread is: "LCD-2 Owners: What aftermarket cable do you use?" in case you forgot. As you don't own a pair (according to your profile) please keep out.


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## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> There is no legitimate demand of "proof" of a subjective opinion either here or on Sound Science forum. One's subjective experience is what it is whatever the reason for it may be, and unless you're going to call them a liar, there's nothing to prove.
> 
> It's only objective claims that come with the burden of proof.
> 
> se


 
  Steve, 
  My post was in direct response to PRM's question regarding where the line is drawn between DBT free and DBT demand forums.  As long as we allow for others to express their subjective opinions, then everything is fine.  When we start demanding DBT proof of something, doing so, crosses the line.


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My post was in direct response to PRM's question regarding where the line is drawn between DBT free and DBT demand forums.  As long as we allow for others to express their subjective opinions, then everything is fine.  When we start demanding DBT proof of something, doing so, crosses the line.


 

 Yes, I understand what you were saying. I was just adding to it and commenting that demanding "proof" of one's subjective experience isn't legitimate and shouldn't be tolerated even in Sound Science.
   
  se


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## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> I asked if there was proof of gogogasgas comment about cables and sonic distortion, which is a claim and not an opinion. I also asked if there was any proof over all, but now know all this is is opinion (at times worded so it appears to be a claim).


 

 Actually the term he used was "sonic presentation." A rather ambiguous term. I mean, what's the metric for "sonic presentation"?
   
  But yeah, I've seen a number of statements made in this thread which would arguably be better suited to the Sound Science forum if this forum is to be limited to people simply sharing their subjective experiences.
   
  That's always been a problem ever since the first "DBT Free Zone" was established on Cable Asylum over at Audio Asylum.
   
  I've always argued that if a forum is to be DBT-free, it should also be free of objective claims.
   
  se


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## mtntrance

How long is the stock LCD-2 cable? (balanced version).  Thanks.


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## perrew

Has anyone tried the SAA cables?


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## caracara08

Quote: 





currawong said:


> This thread is: "LCD-2 Owners: What aftermarket cable do you use?" in case you forgot. As you don't own a pair (according to your profile) *please keep out.*


 


  are you serious?  do you only surf the forums on stuff you own? many more ppl would own the lcd2 if there wasnt a 2 month wait. maybe hes waiting... but even if hes not, theres no reason to be so rude.  i know youre a mod and i know youre one of the top guys, but... lets not be rude because of those facts.


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## pcf

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> are you serious?  do you only surf the forums on stuff you own? many more ppl would own the lcd2 if there wasnt a 2 month wait. maybe hes waiting... but even if hes not, theres no reason to be so rude.  i know youre a mod and i know youre one of the top guys, but... lets not be rude because of those facts.


 


 But the thread is clearly meant for LCD-2 owners who use after market cables to have a discussion about their choices and results. Why should someone who does not own the headphones or the after market cable be allowed to turn it into a 'for/against cable' argument?


----------



## caracara08

okay so im not allowed to comment on anything i dont own.  since i dont own the lcd2, my views on how things work arent valid right? i visit this thread to see what people are using in case i ever do buy a LCD2 but im sorry i wont be checking this thread anymore since im not one of the lucky owners.  thanks.


----------



## scootermafia

You can ask questions, the request was that non LCD-2 owners not threadcrap.


----------



## caracara08

all im saying is that ppl dont have to be so rude. the mod title doesnt give you the right to be rude. to be honest, mods should be more understanding and less confrontational.  guess im an idealist.  sorry it derailed the thread, i wont be responding to anything not relating to lcd2 cables now.


----------



## Currawong

I think it's quite rude of people to derail a thread about one topic into an argument because of their fanatical beliefs about something.  If I permit a handful of people to repeatedly do this, it will drive people off the forums. I can't count the number of times people have said "I came into this thread to read about [the topic] only finding people arguing about [something else] instead.". Sorry if it sounds rude to want to keep the discussion on topic and keep nonsense out. If anyone has any issues with this, PM me.


----------



## gogogasgas

Firstly, and this is for you Macedonian Hero, I have...gulp...big breath...changed my mind about silver cables. I have read the opinions (er, thanks Hero), the reviews, and the flowery praise and I am now willing to try silver cables in my system. (despite a previous negative experience with the rewire of a tonearm with silver Cardas cable)
   
  I suspect that silver interconnects and silver cable of any variety are not for the faint-hearted. Why? Because they can be very revealing and (I'm REALLY hoping the hype is true) NEUTRAL. And that was the point of my original post. The LCD-2s measure reasonably flat across the audio spectrum. Why would you want to 'colour' the neutral sound of the LCD-2s by choosing a certain cable? - eg 'warm' sounding Cardas copper cables. Personally, and there are many who disagree with this philosophy, I want neutrality...warts 'n all. If a recording is crap, then I want to hear that. If it's glorious, then I want to hear that too. Hence, I am willing to give silver cables a go.
   
   


> I posted in the LCD-2 forum that I didn't care for the Silver Dragon cable. It just didn't have the sound I was looking for.


 
   
  I am interested to hear what you didn't like about the Silver Dragons. Too revealing? Too hard? Flat? Uncomfortable? Heavy? Didn't match the curtains (joke)?



> Originally Posted by *Prog Rock Man* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How does a cable distort the sonic presence? Have you any measurements of the different cables discussed here that shows to what extent each causes distortion?


 
   
  The best measurement device is a pair of one's ears. They have similar accuracy to the Mark 1 Eyeball. Overtime, however, the Ear device does loose accuracy in the higher frequencies. An example of this can be when a reviewer complains that a set of headphones is "rolled-off in the highs" (hehe).
  


k3ct said:


> I went with Silver Dragon v3 because the cable is very, very nice to handle.


 
   
  Opinion please: How does the SD V3 cable sound with LCD-2s?
  


currawong said:


> This thread is: "LCD-2 Owners: What aftermarket cable do you use?" in case you forgot. As you don't own a pair (according to your profile) please keep out.


 

 Yikes! That's tough! I have a pair of LCD-2s on order. I want to research headphone cables while I wait and BEFORE I hand over the equivalent of the cost of the cans for a dud cable combination.



perrew said:


> Has anyone tried the SAA cables?


 

 More detail please on this brand please. A quicky search on ye olde internet yielded zero.
   
  Double Helix silver cable anyone? What about these DHC OCC Silver "Complement" Flagship Balanced Cable - HERE.
   
  There is a seller on that well known on-line auction site who is offering headphone cables (with Cryo'd wire) at a reasonable price. Anyone know/used those cables?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> Yikes! That's tough! I have a pair of LCD-2s on order. I want to research headphone cables while I wait and BEFORE I hand over the equivalent of the cost of the cans for a dud cable combination.


 
   
  Sorry about that. Please continue on. The problem was with someone trying to hijack the thread into one more appropriate for the Sound Science forum.
   
  Back on topic with what you've been writing about, I've gone back to copper with the LCD-2s. At first, I liked the results changing the cable to an APSv3, but am now preferring the 8-wire Norse that seems to me more along the lines of my preferred "just-get-out-of-the-way-of-the-music" kind of sound. Some of that is either the headphones and/or my brain burning in with them -- possibly a combination of both.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> More detail please on this brand please. A quicky search on ye olde internet yielded zero.


 

  The SAA cables are I believe Stefan Audio Art http://stefanaudioart.com/ . A _very_ expensive brand. For example their 10ft cable for the HD800 cost... $1550 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  The 10ft for the LCD-2 is... $849
   
  I have just put in an pre-order for the LCD-2 myself and have found this thread indispensable. I ordered the 4 pin XLR, but will probably buy the Silver Dragon as I have Black Dragon on my T1's.


----------



## perrew

mrq said:


> The SAA cables are I believe Stefan Audio Art http://stefanaudioart.com/ . A _very_ expensive brand. For example their 10ft cable for the HD800 cost... $1550
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The Voice(not avail. For lcd2) might be that expansiva but the best they have for LCD2 is usd599/6ft and their cheaper cable is usd309/6ft.


----------



## Skylab

I am really looking forward to getting the 4-wire Norse cable in for a comparo between the stock cable and my Silver Dragon.  I have not ever wanted to go back to the stock cable after switching to the SD.  But I like the look of the Norse, and I'm hoping the 4-wire will be nice and light and non-microphonic, like the SD.


----------



## gogogasgas

currawong said:


> Sorry about that. Please continue on. The problem was with someone trying to hijack the thread into one more appropriate for the Sound Science forum.
> 
> Back on topic with what you've been writing about, I've gone back to copper with the LCD-2s. At first, I liked the results changing the cable to an APSv3, but am now preferring the 8-wire Norse that seems to me more along the lines of my preferred "just-get-out-of-the-way-of-the-music" kind of sound. Some of that is either the headphones and/or my brain burning in with them -- possibly a combination of both.


 
   
  Thanks, Currawong. I don't want to rock the boat.
  Could you give more detail on the reasons for the switch back to copper?



mrq said:


> The SAA cables are I believe Stefan Audio Art http://stefanaudioart.com/ . A _very_ expensive brand. For example their 10ft cable for the HD800 cost... $1550
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the info on the SAA. I will be interested to read any comments you make on the Silver Dragon.
  


skylab said:


> I am really looking forward to getting the 4-wire Norse cable in for a comparo between the stock cable and my Silver Dragon.  I have not ever wanted to go back to the stock cable after switching to the SD.  But I like the look of the Norse, and I'm hoping the 4-wire will be nice and light and non-microphonic, like the SD.


 
   
  The Norse headphone cable that folk are referring to: Is that made from Nordost cable? Skylab, have you posted your impressions of the Silver Dragon elsewhere on this site?


----------



## Skylab

No, the Norse cable has nothing to do with Nordost, at least AFAIK.
   
  I have posted quite a bit about the Silver Dragon + LCD-2, but not sure exactly where - I did not do a formal review.  Basics: ergonomics are A+.  Sonically,  I did feel it was a little brighter sounding than the ALO Audio cable cable, and while I slightly prefered the sound of the ALO cable, I found the ALO cable to be much to heavy for me, and since I preferred both the Silver Dragon and the ALO over the stock cable both in terms of ergonomics and sound, I kept the SD and sold the ALO (I had bought both with the idea of comparing them, but not actually keeping both of them).


----------



## gogogasgas

Thanks, Skylab. When you say that the Silver Dragon was a little brighter in comparison to the ALO, would you also describe it as slightly 'thin' sounding - that is, light in the bass or lacking verisimilitude in the low to mid-bass area?
   
  Another thing that bothers me when selecting cable for the LCD-2s, and you mention the weight of the ALOs as a reason they went, is the effect of the cable on headphone's wooden connection points. I dread to think that a regular tug on that area could split the wood.


----------



## Skylab

I personally did not find there to be any negative impact on the bass using the Silver dragon. There is a tiny bit more treble energy, it seems to me, and I think sometimes people perceive this as less bass. But it isn't.


----------



## Wedge

Once Drew sends me the total, I will have ordered the Moon Audio Silver Dragon to go with my LCD-2s which should be here on Tuesday.  I am very excited.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> Firstly, and this is for you Macedonian Hero, I have...gulp...big breath...changed my mind about silver cables. I have read the opinions (er, thanks Hero), the reviews, and the flowery praise and I am now willing to try silver cables in my system. (despite a previous negative experience with the rewire of a tonearm with silver Cardas cable)
> 
> I suspect that silver interconnects and silver cable of any variety are not for the faint-hearted. Why? Because they can be very revealing and (I'm REALLY hoping the hype is true) NEUTRAL. And that was the point of my original post. The LCD-2s measure reasonably flat across the audio spectrum. Why would you want to 'colour' the neutral sound of the LCD-2s by choosing a certain cable? - eg 'warm' sounding Cardas copper cables. Personally, and there are many who disagree with this philosophy, I want neutrality...warts 'n all. If a recording is crap, then I want to hear that. If it's glorious, then I want to hear that too. Hence, I am willing to give silver cables a go.


 


  I'm a big fan of silver cables (when appropriate...I would typically not pair it with the HD800s or DT880s). I find the Silver Dragon for the LCD-2 really improved the mids/treble and overall sense of air; without any deleterious effects to the bass. Not huge mind you, but enough for me to consider it worthwhile.
  
  I also use silver ICs between my Cary Xciter and (warm sounding) MAD Ear+HD tube amp...a very nice combination. For my WA2, I'm using the silver plated Nordost Red Dawns and I'm very happy with the overall effects. But for my Concerto, I do use the Audioquest King Cobras (OCC copper).
   
  I find that silver takes 2x as long to really break in as copper, but please keep us posted with your thoughts.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





perrew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have the SAA Voice and I thought it is a very nice cable.  I am using the Voice on my HD800 and thought about reterminating it for the LCD2.  With the HD800, I never noticed any bright treble or sibilance that many HD800 owners observed.  The sound character can be described as smooth and natural.  It is a bit expensive bit it was a good match for my 800.


----------



## Currawong

The "why" for me staying with the Norse is long and complex and relates to other changes I made in my system as much as anything. I figured I've give the Norse a week or so in my system and see how I felt. I'm quite sensitive to subtle changes and tend now to see how I feel when I'm listening to music. Sometimes even a small change will, even if I expect it to do nothing, improve or lessen my listening enjoyment. So I found myself enjoying listening very much as I have things now. As I had planned, I switched back to the APSv3 and I felt the sound was more forced, whereas it had the opposite (a positive) effect on the HD-800s for me.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I'm a big fan of silver cables (when appropriate...I would typically not pair it with the HD800s or DT880s). I find the Silver Dragon for the LCD-2 really improved the mids/treble and overall sense of air; without any deleterious effects to the bass. Not huge mind you, but enough for me to consider it worthwhile.
> 
> I also use silver ICs between my Cary Xciter and (warm sounding) MAD Ear+HD tube amp...a very nice combination. For my WA2, I'm using the silver plated Nordost Red Dawns and I'm very happy with the overall effects. But for my Concerto, I do use the Audioquest King Cobras (OCC copper).
> 
> ...


 

 You are very right with regard to silver break in time.  I have used the silver Dragon, ALO SXC, ALO silver, Whiplash TWag v1, and recently the Crystal Piccolino.   Craig recently told me that the new TWag V2 is an entirely different animal
  after 1000 hours of burn in.  My TWag V1 took 300 to 500 hours.  
   
  Another important bit of info to remember with silver is that there are many qualities and types of implementation with silver, so one has to be very careful, I find there is no universal character for them.  For instance, you have silver plated copper, you have solid and multi strand silver, you have silver ranging from 2n to 6N in quality (that is 99.99 to 99.999995).  You have OCC silver.    There are differences between coax and twisted construction style.  Low quality silver tends to sound bright, thin, and harsh though may appear revealing.  Low end silver can induce listener fatigue more easily due to their harsh nature.  High end silver with proprietary technology and implementation tends to be very expensive.  For instance, a pair of top of the line Crystal Cable for speaker can top $15,000.00 per pair.  High end silver cable for headphone applications are few.  One silver cable can be totally different from another silver cable in terms of SQ.  They may range from having very thin and weak bass to tight and pronounce bass.  Many silver cable brands do not fully reveal there silver composition so a buyer really has no way to evaluate them on paper and if they don't have good return policy, a buyer may end up getting stuck with an expensive cable.  The best way is to audition yourself if at all possible.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jalo said:


> You are very right with regard to silver break in time.  I have used the silver Dragon, ALO SXC, ALO silver, Whiplash TWag v1, and recently the Crystal Piccolino.   Craig recently told me that the new TWag V2 is an entirely different animal
> after 1000 hours of burn in.  My TWag V1 took 300 to 500 hours.
> 
> Another important bit of info to remember with silver is that there are many qualities and types of implementation with silver, so one has to be very careful, I find there is no universal character for them.  For instance, you have silver plated copper, you have solid and multi strand silver, you have silver ranging from 2n to 6N in quality (that is 99.99 to 99.999995).  You have OCC silver.    There are differences between coax and twisted construction style.  *Low quality silver tends to sound bright, thin, and harsh though may appear revealing.  Low end silver can induce listener fatigue more easily due to their harsh nature. * High end silver with proprietary technology and implementation tends to be very expensive.  For instance, a pair of top of the line Crystal Cable for speaker can top $15,000.00 per pair.  High end silver cable for headphone applications are few.  One silver cable can be totally different from another silver cable in terms of SQ.  They may range from having very thin and weak bass to tight and pronounce bass.  Many silver cable brands do not fully reveal there silver composition so a buyer really has no way to evaluate them on paper and if they don't have good return policy, a buyer may end up getting stuck with an expensive cable.  The best way is to audition yourself if at all possible.


 

 Good point about the lower purity silver cables. I did have a pair of ICs (Aural Thrills Audio Cables...now sold) that were only 99.99% and I did find them a bit bright/thin. But both the Silver Dragon (99.99998% silver) and the Nordost (OCC copper plated with 99.99999% silver) and Kimber Silver Streaks all use very high purity silver and don't sound bright or thin an anyway to my ears. But rather I do get more liquid mids and cohesive treble without any negative impacts to the bass.


----------



## Jalo

I am glad you noticed the same thing with lower purity silver.  Yes, liquid mids and cohesive treble do come with HIGHEND silver cables.  I also like Kimber silver cable.  I am using the Kimber D60 Illuminati now and finds it clear, transparent, very personal and not thin at all.  Until recently, I have been afraid to use silver with full size headphones-the likes that you have (HD800, LCD2, ED8LE) for fear that I may loose that full body sound and bass reduction.  But my recent experience with a certain silver cable lead me to try it with my LCD2.  I don't like to jump to conclusion, so may be in another month or two, I'll share my opinion on this new find.  Another take I have on silver is that I do not like silver plated copper.  To me they don't have the full characteristic of good silver or good copper, somewhat like a lukewarm attitude.  So far, I have been using ALO chain mail 8 wires 18 awg cable for my LCD2 and I have been happy with its performance (full body, solid bass).  However, ever so slightly I wanted a little more with its treble (more air and more smoothness) but retaining the characteristic of the ALO, I hope I'll find this in this next silver cable.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jalo said:


> I am glad you noticed the same thing with lower purity silver.  Yes, liquid mids and cohesive treble do come with HIGHEND silver cables.  I also like Kimber silver cable.  I am using the Kimber D60 Illuminati now and finds it clear, transparent, very personal and not thin at all.  Until recently, I have been afraid to use silver with full size headphones-the likes that you have (HD800, LCD2, ED8LE) for fear that I may loose that full body sound and bass reduction.  But my recent experience with a certain silver cable lead me to try it with my LCD2.  I don't like to jump to conclusion, so may be in another month or two, I'll share my opinion on this new find.  Another take I have on silver is that I do not like silver plated copper.  To me they don't have the full characteristic of good silver or good copper, somewhat like a lukewarm attitude.  So far, I have been using ALO chain mail 8 wires 18 awg cable for my LCD2 and I have been happy with its performance (full body, solid bass).  However, ever so slightly I wanted a little more with its treble (more air and more smoothness) but retaining the characteristic of the ALO, I hope I'll find this in this next silver cable.


 

 The Q Black Magic makes what you describe happen for me.


----------



## Jalo

Very interesting, I'll look into it.


----------



## gogogasgas

So much great information on silver (and copper) headphone cables. We should re-name the thread so all Head Fi-ers can drink at the well.
   
  The Silver Dragons do come up a lot on this site. Good sound and quality construction for a reasonable outlay, it seems. Kimber silver also seems to to be mentioned favorably. I've got Kimber silver cable ordered for hook-up wire in a Phoenix I'm getting made. (now that Macedonian Hero has 'converted' me to silver) I would like to get a pair of headphone cables made using one of the Kimber silver cables but I have been told there isn't a Kimber cable that is suitable. Perhaps someone on Head Fi has had experience to the contrary?
   
  Currawong - your new picture suggests you are much younger than I imagined... that Norse cable just might be the 'Fountain of Youth'!
  I understand your comments regarding the switch of cable. If you enjoy the music more, the cable must be a good match.
   
  Jalo- that is interesting info on the SAA Voice, especially in relation to the HD800s. As for burn in time- that's a long period. I wonder if you could just connect the silver cables to one of those Nordost cable burn-in gadgets and speed the process along a bit.
   
  That info on the link between silver quality and audio quality is worth noting. However, price wise, the sky is the limit with silver (and copper) cables. For example, those Double Helix silver cables look brilliant...but so does the dazzling price. Still, if they ARE that good, and if headphones are the main source of listening, and the rest of the audio chain is of suitable quality, then, why not? Any opinions on the Double Helix silver?


----------



## Jalo

Gogogasgas, I went to the link you provided in your previous post on DHC but wasn't able to see the spec. on their silver cable other than it is very good.  For instance, there is no mention as to the compostion or construction on the cable.  A lot of cable manufacture tends to keep certain parts of their technology proprietary, however, I feel the basis stuff should be disclosed like is it a single vs multi core, is the silver 2n, 3, or 5n, what kind of dialectric, shielding, grounding are use etc.


----------



## gogogasgas

Jalo: I checked out the blurb on the Double Helix site again and I agree: it's light on facts regarding the silver wire. I am, however, very impressed with the enormous amount of detail that has been put into the design of the cables. I believe the owner of the company is a regular poster on this site and I would like to invite him to comment - is that OK with the Head Fi moderators? I'm not sure of the rules regarding industry members commenting on their own wares. Also, I see that iPodPJ is a happy owner of a set - perhaps he might share his knowledge regarding the type of silver used by DH.
   
  The price on the Double Helix site for the silver cables reflects a model designed for the HD800s and terminated in the (very expensive) beryllium Furutech connectors. Perhaps the same cable configured for the LCD-2s and terminated with more basic Furutech XLRs might bring the price down.


----------



## Currawong

Members of the Trade can answer direct questions about their products in posts, no problem.  Have a look at the Privacy/TOS link at the very bottom of the page for more info on that.


----------



## gogogasgas

Thanks, Currawong.
   
  I am still intrigued regarding the possibility of using KIMBER AGSS for a pair of headphone cables. This idea isn't new - checkout a comparison of headphone cables *HERE*. In that example, a copper wire was used for the return signal whereas I would want an all-silver cable. Downside? The cable is a bit stiff and it also could get a little expensive by the time you add the cost of termination connectors. It is, however, no-fuss (except making the things), pure silver headphone cable option.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> Jalo: I checked out the blurb on the Double Helix site again and I agree: it's light on facts regarding the silver wire. I am, however, very impressed with the enormous amount of detail that has been put into the design of the cables. I believe the owner of the company is a regular poster on this site and I would like to invite him to comment - is that OK with the Head Fi moderators? I'm not sure of the rules regarding industry members commenting on their own wares. Also, I see that iPodPJ is a happy owner of a set - perhaps he might share his knowledge regarding the type of silver used by DH.
> 
> The price on the Double Helix site for the silver cables reflects a model designed for the HD800s and terminated in the (very expensive) beryllium Furutech connectors. Perhaps the same cable configured for the LCD-2s and terminated with more basic Furutech XLRs might bring the price down.


 

 I own a pair of the HD800 Complement cables with his Nucleotide OCC Copper wire, which is custom made exclusively for Double Helix Cables.  I have not actually heard the silver version.  I know he's using OCC solid core silver wire, but I'm not exactly sure what brand it is.


----------



## K3cT

Silver Dragon v3 cable +  internal Silver Dragon v3 rewire = orgasmic. Overall sound seems to be airier, cleaner and more transparent. 
   
  This cable, it's really like it's made for the LCD2.


----------



## KB

Guys,
   
  We have 3 new round woven 8 wire LCD2 cables all of them and about half of the weight of the older 8 wire 18awg one that Skylab is complaining about being heavy. One of these is half silver and half copper. We have one more in the works, all are really nice and chewy, the half silver half copper has some nice action for the top end with our being offensive. Please check them out all are on the website and do ping me if you have any questions ken@aloaudio.com
   
  cheers,
   
  Ken


----------



## Skylab

That's a cool development, Ken!  I loved the sound of your LCD-2 cable, but it is objectively quite heavy, and for me personally, it was an issue.  Lots of other people have said that the weight was not an issue, however.  I think this will vary a lot from person to person.


----------



## ninjikiran

I dunno about microphonics on the norse 8w cable, unlike the blue jeans cable I had made for the K702's which was microphonic to the touch.  Personally dont know differences but don't care, they look nicer with the LCD-2 and is a good test of brand for when I go balanced one day.


----------



## Skylab

Inhave been breaking in a 4 conductor Norse, which is not at all microphonic, and is nice and light. So far sounds quite good, IMO, as well. More later.


----------



## zilch0md

Skylab,
   
  I'm really looking forward to your opinion of whether or not the 4-conductor Norse is better overall than the ADZ5 (the current stock LCD-2 cable) or its predecessor - and in what ways...
   
  (OT:  I'm also curious about your impressions of the Lyr with LCD-2, whenever that happens...)
   
  Thanks and no rush - I've got lots of popcorn! 
   




   
  Mike


----------



## perrew

k3ct said:


> Silver Dragon v3 cable +  internal Silver Dragon v3 rewire = orgasmic. Overall sound seems to be airier, cleaner and more transparent.
> 
> This cable, it's really like it's made for the LCD2.




Why would you wanna ruin such nice phones with silver?


----------



## WindyCityCy

I have the half silver/half copper cable.  Very light and amazing to see in person.  It sounds really good too.  However I don't have any other cable to compare it to.  I very happy with Ken's work on this.
  
  Quote: 





kb said:


> Guys,
> 
> We have 3 new round woven 8 wire LCD2 cables all of them and about half of the weight of the older 8 wire 18awg one that Skylab is complaining about being heavy. One of these is half silver and half copper. We have one more in the works, all are really nice and chewy, the half silver half copper has some nice action for the top end with our being offensive. Please check them out all are on the website and do ping me if you have any questions ken@aloaudio.com
> 
> ...


----------



## oqvist

Quote: 





perrew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol... I wonder if I am not a copper guy after all as well. Just got the AZB5. No burnin whatsoever and it certainly wows me more then the SD 3. There is no doubt audial difference between these cables that is not all that subtle. AZB5 brings the midrange forward some. Slightly less air but this is compensated by the Ref9 which seem to injest tons of it compared to my DAC19 or any other DAC I tried.
   
  To early to tell but no sense of gravel of what to call it on this one either.


----------



## doctorcilantro

Anyone heard the ALO cables and compared yet? The Norse seem like a great option.
   
http://stereolist.com/stereolisting/audeze-lcd2-w-new-round-chain-mail-cable-8-feet-14-plug/


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





doctorcilantro said:


> Anyone heard the ALO cables and compared yet? The Norse seem like a great option.
> 
> http://stereolist.com/stereolisting/audeze-lcd2-w-new-round-chain-mail-cable-8-feet-14-plug/


 
  Yes, Ken's new round chain mail cable is killer!  I'm not sure if he knows how to make a bad sounding cable.  I've never heard better sonics overall.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





perrew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Silver is more bling than copper. Deal with it.


----------



## perrew

k3ct said:


> Silver is more bling than copper. Deal with it.




Aha now its crystal clear to me, so a Gold cable is the ultimate then


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





perrew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe platinum?  Then cryo treated occ unobtanium.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





perrew said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As a matter of fact, I think a silver and gold cable is indeed the ultimate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I have been enjoying my Crystal Piccolino which is a Silver and Gold alloy and it gives me the best of both copper and silver characteristics at the same time without the shortcomings of both.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jalo said:


> As a matter of fact, I think a silver and gold cable is indeed the ultimate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Pray tell, what are those shortcomings?


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Pray tell, what are those shortcomings?


 

 Well, first let me laid the background of where I'm from so you can put my comments in perspective.  As for headphones, I have the HD800, LCD2, and JH-13, among others, in general these are rather revealing cans by most people standard, meaning that they can reveal upstream source with relative ease. And i have these cans for over 1.5 years, 6 months, and almost two years respectively so I am very familiar with their sound.  For the LCD2 and HD800, I use copper as my choice of cable, especially for the 800 because of their brighter upper.  My cable of choice are the ALO 8 wire 18 awg Chain Mail UPOCC (LCD2) and the Stefan Audio Arts Voice (HD800).  These are high end coppers cables so I am very familiar with their characteristics.  By the way, with the 800/Voice combo, I never experience the sibilance problem that some 800 owners have observed and reported.  
   
  Then I have the JH-13 and for the JH13 I originally had Stefan Audio made me a customer cable with their Equinox line of cable which is a copper cable, then I bought the Whiplash TWag v1 cable which is a nice high end silver cable, then I bought again the ALO 22 awg chain mail 4 wire UPOCC cable which is a nice copper cable.   Up to about a month ago, I was using these cables for my JH13 and I have compared them side by side multiple times in exactly the same system, same source, same recording, same passage.  At least on the JH13, the different characteristic with each of these cables are very easily discernible.  With the Silver TWag, the sound is clearer and brighter with the mid and treble, more transparent, just a cleaner and closer sound yet with a slight touch of dryness in the upper.  The bass is tight and clearly and nicely there.  And when I switch to the ALO copper, I immediately noticed the impact of the bass. The other aspect is nice and warm and a touch dark when compare to the TWag.  But the bass of the copper reaches to my bone w/ visceral effect as oppose to the TWag that reaches to my skin.  The difference between the two in the bass department is so clear that I can tell them apart in a blind test which I did.  Then a month ago, I walked into an audio store and I saw the Crystal Piccolino for the JH13/16.  I also had the TWag and ALO with me at the time.  When the manager offered to let me hear the crystal cable, I gladly accepts as I have been wanting to try this famous cable to see what all the hype is all about.  I was a skeptic and think they are just hype and "how can an iem cable worth that much" type of an attitude.  After I put the crystal on my jh13 and in no less than two minutes I was in shock, then I break out a silly smile in disbelief.  I was in shock not because it sounded very good but because the Crystal has the bass of my ALO and even better the treble of my TWag in the same cable.  I really didn't expect to have both characteristics in one cable.  The second surprise I found is that the cable is VERY VERY smooth. As you know with silver cable sometimes you get that bright clear feeling that you can develop listener fatigue because of that sharpness.  But the crystal give me that smooth feeling that even at high volume the listening is very pleasant is just simply amazing. Apparently, the manufacturer attribute the characteristic to the gold filling in the space of the silver.  Because of the smooth, close, natural, warm but transparent character of the mid and upper and with the LCD2 like bass in the low end, listening to the JH13/crystal combo gives you a sense of a personal audition with the artist.  Very enjoyable.
   
  So when I say shortcomings in the previous post, I really mean it relatively.  If I never listen to the crystal I would not have known that the best of both worlds can be had at the same time and I could be very happy with either the ALO or TWag, but once you have tasted the sweetness, you may be listening with one but your mind is with the other
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now I am in the process to made a crystal LCD2 cable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Well, first let me laid the background of where I'm from so you can put my comments in perspective.  As for headphones, I have the HD800, LCD2, and JH-13, among others, in general these are rather revealing cans by most people standard, meaning that they can reveal upstream source with relative ease. And i have these cans for over 1.5 years, 6 months, and almost two years respectively so I am very familiar with their sound.  For the LCD2 and HD800, I use copper as my choice of cable, especially for the 800 because of their brighter upper.  My cable of choice are the ALO 8 wire 18 awg Chain Mail UPOCC (LCD2) and the Stefan Audio Arts Voice (HD800).  These are high end coppers cables so I am very familiar with their characteristics.  By the way, with the 800/Voice combo, I never experience the sibilance problem that some 800 owners have observed and reported.
> 
> Then I have the JH-13 and for the JH13 I originally had Stefan Audio made me a customer cable with their Equinox line of cable which is a copper cable, then I bought the Whiplash TWag v1 cable which is a nice high end silver cable, then I bought again the ALO 22 awg chain mail 4 wire UPOCC cable which is a nice copper cable.   Up to about a month ago, I was using these cables for my JH13 and I have compared them side by side multiple times in exactly the same system, same source, same recording, same passage.  At least on the JH13, the different characteristic with each of these cables are very easily discernible.  With the Silver TWag, the sound is clearer and brighter with the mid and treble, more transparent, just a cleaner and closer sound yet with a slight touch of dryness in the upper.  The bass is tight and clearly and nicely there.  And when I switch to the ALO copper, I immediately noticed the impact of the bass. The other aspect is nice and warm and a touch dark when compare to the TWag.  But the bass of the copper reaches to my bone w/ visceral effect as oppose to the TWag that reaches to my skin.  The difference between the two in the bass department is so clear that I can tell them apart in a blind test which I did.  Then a month ago, I walked into an audio store and I saw the Crystal Piccolino for the JH13/16.  I also had the TWag and ALO with me at the time.  When the manager offered to let me hear the crystal cable, I gladly accepts as I have been wanting to try this famous cable to see what all the hype is all about.  I was a skeptic and think they are just hype and "how can an iem cable worth that much" type of an attitude.  After I put the crystal on my jh13 and in no less than two minutes I was in shock, then I break out a silly smile in disbelief.  I was in shock not because it sounded very good but because the Crystal has the bass of my ALO and even better the treble of my TWag in the same cable.  I really didn't expect to have both characteristics in one cable.  The second surprise I found is that the cable is VERY VERY smooth. As you know with silver cable sometimes you get that bright clear feeling that you can develop listener fatigue because of that sharpness.  But the crystal give me that smooth feeling that even at high volume the listening is very pleasant is just simply amazing. Apparently, the manufacturer attribute the characteristic to the gold filling in the space of the silver.  Because of the smooth, close, natural, warm but transparent character of the mid and upper and with the LCD2 like bass in the low end, listening to the JH13/crystal combo gives you a sense of a personal audition with the artist.  Very enjoyable.
> 
> ...


 

 Silver is a better conductor of electricity (about 17% better than copper), but more expensive. And gold is worse than either copper and silver as an electrical conductor. My experience with good silver cables is that there is an improvement to the mids/treble response. If I purely concentrate on the bass, I find it virtually identical, but with an improvement in liquidity of the mids/bass, I can understand how some think the bass is more subdued when the mids/treble are improved in relation to the bass. But using a frequency sweep between 20Hz - 120Hz, I hear no differences in the bass between copper and silver. 
   
  Just my 2 cents, YMMV.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> *Silver is a better conductor of electricity (about 17% better than copper), but more expensive.* And gold is worse than either copper and silver as an electrical conductor. My experience with good silver cables is that there is an improvement to the mids/treble response. If I purely concentrate on the bass, I find it virtually identical, but with an improvement in liquidity of the mids/bass, I can understand how some think the bass is more subdued when the mids/treble are improved in relation to the bass. But using a frequency sweep between 20Hz - 120Hz, I hear no differences in the bass between copper and silver.
> 
> Just my 2 cents, YMMV.


 


  Just a correction, silver only conducts ~7% better than copper.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bobsayshi said:


> Just a correction, silver only conducts ~7% better than copper.


 

 You're right...the "1" was a typo, my finger slipped. I meant 7%...thanks for the clarification.
   
  Must be all this cold medication I'm on?


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Silver is a better conductor of electricity (about 17% better than copper), but more expensive. And gold is worse than either copper and silver as an electrical conductor. My experience with good silver cables is that there is an improvement to the mids/treble response. If I purely concentrate on the bass, I find it virtually identical, but with an improvement in liquidity of the mids/bass, I can understand how some think the bass is more subdued when the mids/treble are improved in relation to the bass. *But using a frequency sweep between 20Hz - 120Hz, I hear no differences in the bass between copper and silver*.
> 
> Just my 2 cents, YMMV.


 

 That is exactly my point.  The 7% advantage of conductivity silver has over copper does not produce or result in noticeable difference in frequency change.  Obviously sound is more than frequency response.


----------



## perrew

Consider this; why using Silver since all the Printed Circuit Board traces are made from copper, all passive and active components leads/pins (with the exception of rare “exotic” capacitors with Silver leads which don’t sound good, BTW) are made with Copper, most audio transformers and ALL power transformers are made with Copper, all vacuum tubes pins are Copper (and some have Copper-clad grids) etc, etc. So, Does it make any sense whatsoever using a Silver wire or connectors?


----------



## mamba315

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Yes, Ken's new round chain mail cable is killer!  I'm not sure if he knows how to make a bad sounding cable.  I've never heard better sonics overall.


 

 Have you decided you like it better than the Black Magic, sonically speaking?  I know you were thinking them very close but slightly different.


----------



## mamba315

Quote: 





jalo said:


> Now I am in the process to made a crystal LCD2 cable.


 


  Let us know how this turns out.  How long until you expect delivery?


----------



## scootermafia

It's hard to explain why various metals with moderate differences in conductivity sound different.  As far as the argument about the signal going through various board components, therefore why have nice cables at all, I give the following analogy.  Would you have a better drive to work if only 1/4 of the road was an unpaved gravel road and the rest smooth 4 lane highway, vs. an off road trail the whole way?  The way I see cables, the more you can minimize harm by improving the various connections in the system, the better.  It isn't that one signal going through a single transistor lead is going to kill all the sound quality.  Otherwise, we'd be screwed the second that digital signal came off the laser.


----------



## perrew

Well furthering that gravel road analogy, it would be even smoother if you could levitate and travel just above the road, so no cable at all would make the sound even better.


----------



## scootermafia

Right, if the circuits could just directly communicate.  That would be analogous to getting beamed up in Star Trek.


----------



## perrew

I wonder why no one ever recables the Stax O2, oh thats right it comes with copper wire already


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





perrew said:


> Consider this; why using Silver since all the Printed Circuit Board traces are made from copper, all passive and active components leads/pins (with the exception of rare “exotic” capacitors with Silver leads which don’t sound good, BTW) are made with Copper, most audio transformers and ALL power transformers are made with Copper, all vacuum tubes pins are Copper (and some have Copper-clad grids) etc, etc. So, Does it make any sense whatsoever using a Silver wire or connectors?


 
   
  Funny you should mention that, I have worked in many engineering roles in the electronics industry for over 15 years, the reason we use copper is mainly price. Silver is too expensive in comparison. BTW, which components are you referring to? Do you know how a particular capacitor sounds in a system? Or was it the system and it's application in it? There is also more to capacitors than the plated leads. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  For the past 6 years, I've worked at a flexible printed circuit manufacturer (mil/aero)...where copper ductility is very important for our "flexibility" (not to mention the higher costs of silver). In hard boards, copper wins for price and ductility. That's really the 2 reasons why. Price is obvious and ductility for plated through-holes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jalo said:


> That is exactly my point.  The 7% advantage of conductivity silver has over copper does not produce or result in noticeable difference in frequency change.  Obviously sound is more than frequency response.


 

 There is enough of a difference with my ears/gear between the copper and good silver cables for all the reasons I previously mentioned....YMMV.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mamba315 said:


> Have you decided you like it better than the Black Magic, sonically speaking?  I know you were thinking them very close but slightly different.


 

 To my ear, they're both still very close, but slightly different.  The differences are so subtle, frankly, that as I said before, I would need a double blind test to convince myself of the real differences.  They're that close.  For me, I'e never heard any other cable sound as good as ALO's best until I heard the Black Magic.  So they're both outstanding, and for sure I prefer the comfort factors of the Black Magic.  It's far more flexible, far lighter, less microphonic, etc.  With the ALO, there's no doubt in my mind that you could pass it on to your descendants.  With the Black Magic, you may only cover one or two generations, with the ALO, four or five or more.  Obviously, that's goofy speculation on my part, but I wanted to try and impart some sense of the aesthetics of each of the cables.


----------



## gogogasgas

I was reminded of the downside of unshielded cables by Peter from Double Helix when I was toying with the idea of making a DYI braided cable.
   
  Getting a small signal from an amp to a set of headphones via unshielded cable is just asking for trouble. RFI, EMI and other junk that is collected through the power grid/the home's electrical wiring system, and interference from other audio equipment can ruin a system. You add a 10 foot run of unshielded headphone cable to that equation and the whole rig could just become a large antennae. Result? Muddy sound, grey sound, buzz, to name a few symptoms.
   
  I've had trouble before with unshielded interconnects. Some equipment is OK when hooked up with unshielded cables, but other gear can be a real pain, with annoying hum coming through the speakers (and headphones, I imagine, as well).
   
  The other side of the argument states that the shielding itself can cause a different set of woes, sonically at least. (interfering with the flow, so to speak)  Perhaps some PVC insulation and braiding is enough.
   
  I'm still in the market for the headphone cable, so I am unbiased when I say that the effort and method that Double Helix use to insulate their cables looks impressive. I think that Tara Labs use a similar idea in their hyper-expensive, top-of-the-line cables. What is the Silver Dragon design like in this area - V3 users like to comment?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> I was reminded of the downside of unshielded cables by Peter from Double Helix when I was toying with the idea of making a DYI braided cable.
> 
> Getting a small signal from an amp to a set of headphones via unshielded cable is just asking for trouble. RFI, EMI and other junk that is collected through the power grid/the home's electrical wiring system, and interference from other audio equipment can ruin a system. You add a 10 foot run of unshielded headphone cable to that equation and the whole rig could just become a large antennae. Result? Muddy sound, grey sound, buzz, to name a few symptoms.
> 
> ...


 
  Shielding headphone cables is destructive to the sound and completely unnecessary.   Signal levels are on par with speaker levels, and there are no active components in the headphones to amplify any EMI/RFI.  If you're using an amp with high levels of negative feedback, a long run of unshielded parallel cable (like zip cord) to your headphones might make trouble, but it is unlikely since the headphone impedance is usually too low to allow interference from induced/detected interference.  Braided cable will self cancel any coupled interference even if it were to get back into your amp.


----------



## gogogasgas

KWKARTH: What about cross-talk between the left and right channels in the headphone cable? (or is that what you mean in regard to 'coupled interference'?) Wouldn't there also be a chance the cable would act like an antenna and pick up 'stuff'? I remember as a kid, the braces on my teeth picked up radio signal (yes, it happened to one of the Brady Bunch too!) Radiohead...
   
  With some of thicker braided cable designs, I am also worried the weight/stiffness of the cable will damage the wooden end pieces of the LCD-2s.
   
  In regard to the 'is silver worth the expense' debate: The superior conductivity of the silver has been stated clearly. What needs to mentioned again is sound quality of the silver v copper. Audio reviews of silver cable often mention the liquid and neutral presentation of music using silver cables. I get the impression that copper adds colourations and it also bloats certain frequencies.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> KWKARTH: What about cross-talk between the left and right channels in the headphone cable? (or is that what you mean in regard to 'coupled interference'?) Wouldn't there also be a chance the cable would act like an antenna and pick up 'stuff'? I remember as a kid, the braces on my teeth picked up radio signal (yes, it happened to one of the Brady Bunch too!) Radiohead...
> 
> With some of thicker braided cable designs, I am also worried the weight/stiffness of the cable will damage the wooden end pieces of the LCD-2s.
> 
> In regard to the 'is silver worth the expense' debate: The superior conductivity of the silver has been stated clearly. What needs to mentioned again is sound quality of the silver v copper. Audio reviews of silver cable often mention the liquid and neutral presentation of music using silver cables. I get the impression that copper adds colourations and it also bloats certain frequencies.


 
  In practical terms, there is no cross talk between left and right channels...not an issue.  I was referring to coupled (induced or detected) interference from EMI or RFI.  (Electro-Magnetic Interference or Radio Frequency Interference)  
   
  LOL!  I experienced the braces thing too, as a kid.  I lived in the ground plane of KSTP, a clear channel (50kW) AM station in the Twin Cities, MN, US.  I suspect the diodic function was created by the interface between brace metal, braces cement, and an amalgam filling or two.  That added to the mild acidic condition of saliva allowed me to charge my braces up with an ohm meter, and it took a while for the charge to leak off.  I digress. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The cable weight / strain / stiffness thing is more of a comfort factor for me.
   
  I think if you research things a bit you'll find that skin effect, (yes, at audio frequencies) cable geometry, and dielectric issues are larger influencing factors on the audio performance of a cable than is resistance per thousand feet of cable in a ten foot cable.


----------



## grokit

I can see the point of the highly-regarded Piccolino's silver/gold construction; as it has been said silver is a superior conductor but what hasn't been said is that it also oxidizes/corrodes the most easily. So adding gold to the mix would preserve that superior conductivity for perpetuity as gold is the most resistant to oxidation.
   
  Having said that, I am a big fan of Peter's Double Helix Molecule series of headphone cables, I have four of them and they provide great sound quality, ergonomics and sensible economics as well as a very efficient ordering experience. I highly recommend the Molecule for any headphone with an upgradeable, modular cable.
   
  The only other cable I would buy for myself with the LCD-2 is the Norse Audio from Trevor. I remeber what pains he went through to find the perfect setup for the LCD-2 regardless of cost as he posted about his journey in detail befor he became a MOT. His introductory prices are unmatched and he reportedly offers very quick shipping, as well as great packaging and aesthetics.


----------



## DannyBuoy

Received my LCD2 on Saturday. In a twist of fate one of the owners of Audeze "Sankar" was heading through Southern CA and I met him at a Starbucks to be handed my long awaited delivery. It was very nice to meet him and talk for a few minutes, but sadly they did not have a balanced 4 Pin cable in stock.
   
  So I have it hooked up to the Violectric V181 via SE stock cable and I am wondering what the balanced amp will sound like. So I thought perhaps I can wire up a set of balanced cables as I have a large supply of OCC silver coated and shielded kapton coated wire.
   
  I was looking for the earpiece connectors and noticed someone pointed to a page with a Rean RT4FC-B earlier in this thread but the connector on my pair look more like this one: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=242-382 I was wondering if someone can confirm please?
   
  Also, I see a few options for Neutrik 4 Pin XLR. There is a nice fully black plug with gold connectors like this:
 Neutrik NC3MXX-B XLR Male Black w/Gold Contacts http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/210_2028879036/NC4MXX-B_detail.aspx   
Any thoughts? I'd like to purchase the connectors one time if possible and make a balanced cable to head the V181 and LCD2 together and then decide if I want to purchase a Norse 4 wire or not.


----------



## IPodPJ

Nothing wrong with that 4-pin connector.  It will work fine.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I can see the point of the highly-regarded Piccolino's silver/gold construction; as it has been said silver is a superior conductor but what hasn't been said is that it also oxidizes/corrodes the most easily. So adding gold to the mix would preserve that superior conductivity for perpetuity as gold is the most resistant to oxidation.


 

  
  An interesting point about oxidation...  silver oxide is still a good conductor whereas copper oxide is not.  One of my hobbies is rebuilding/restoring vintage tube audio equipment.  I see a lot of copper cables where the resistance has gone high due to oxidation.  Nothing like green contacts and green ooze creeping out of the ends of connectors.  Of course, nothing I have seen on my bench uses silver, except old Tektronix gear (oscilloscopes, which are a joy to work on & repair).
   
  In my own experimentation, with my admittedly bad hearing, I find greater differences in SQ coming from connectors & connections than wire type.  I also think that the geometry of the wire can have a big impact, but I can't figure out the physics involved.  I also think there may be some sonic signatures that can be attributed to the composition and type of insulation on the cables.  With copper cables, the insulations that melt provide a seal around wire at a soldered joint, which protects the copper from oxidation.  Teflon insulation doesn't melt at soldering temperatures, and does NOT provide a seal.
   
  I'm still fussing around with high-purity single-crystal copper cables and high-purity silver as well.  So far these have mostly been for interconnects or speaker wires.  Haven't yet had time to experiment with headphone cables, but I'm planning to.  Most of what I read published by the makers of high-end cables is just pure bullsh*t.  My next project will be some silver balanced headphone cables for my LCD-2's so I can try them with a fully balanced Atma-Sphere MP3 preamp that I'm borrowing.
   
  I'll post back if I learn anything.  If I were purchasing a set, I'd look hard at the TWag V2's.


----------



## scootermafia

The Piccolino and Silver/Blue/Black dragon headphone cables are all shielded; well, the Piccolino uses a tubular shield surrounding the center conductor as a return, it's technically a coaxial cable. I'm not sure how shielding would pose a problem in any way, it's more one of those just in case things.  It is probably a bad idea to have it directly against the wires (the metal braid) which is why most designs have some cotton and other stuff in between.


----------



## Frihed89

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Yes, Ken's new round chain mail cable is killer!  I'm not sure if he knows how to make a bad sounding cable.  I've never heard better sonics overall.


 
  Is this the cable you, or someone else, referred to earlier as "round woven 8 wire LCD2 cables" from ALO.  I'm having trouble understanding what is what on their site.  Whicch ones are these and are they better then "old ones", whichever ones they are?  Maybe you could help me out and cross-reference the old and new with their web-page designation on ALO.  Thanks.


----------



## milosz

I made a cable using teflon insulated silver plated solid #26 wire, twisted by pair then the 2 pairs braided.
   
  Great cable.  Wire available sometimes on eBay.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





frihed89 said:


> Is this the cable you, or someone else, referred to earlier as "round woven 8 wire LCD2 cables" from ALO.  I'm having trouble understanding what is what on their site.  Whicch ones are these and are they better then "old ones", whichever ones they are?  Maybe you could help me out and cross-reference the old and new with their web-page designation on ALO.  Thanks.


 

 Model R8-C.  That's the current model that I've evaluated and like very much.  I have not yet heard the RW8-C.


----------



## Frihed89

I am trying to get some clarification on that, to see if there is any difference in the cable structure or just the terminations. They now have the RW-8 model in both copper and copper+ silver returns.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





frihed89 said:


> I am trying to get some clarification on that, to see if there is any difference in the cable structure or just the terminations. They now have the RW-8 model in both copper and copper+ silver returns.


 
  I have only seen and heard the R8-C model so I cannot speak to the others.  Seems like maybe there's some ad copy errors on Ken's site.


----------



## gogogasgas

I was thinking about the cable shielding question again. Although interference (of any sort) absorbed or carried by unshielded cable may not present as hum or buzz, I do believe it does come through as interference. It may add greyness or haze or muddy the sound. Broad terms, I know. Look at the differences that a shielded multi-plug power box can make in the system chain (eg Furutech).
   
  There is just SO much crap in the air and in power-lines these days that some of it must make it's way into the sonic signature of audio equipment via such things as cables and power cords. Look at the trouble top-flight recording studios go to with cabling and power.
   
  The standard LCD-2 cables use a quality (shielded?) copper cable. If you are going to ditch the standard LCD-2 cable, you might as well get the best quality materials (yeah, silver for me) and the best thought out design. Otherwise, why bother changing the standard cable at all?


----------



## MoNelly

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Inhave been breaking in a 4 conductor Norse, which is not at all microphonic, and is nice and light. So far sounds quite good, IMO, as well. More later.


 


  Any more comments on the Norse 4 conductor cables, Skylab?


----------



## Skylab

Really like them.  I have gone to using them exclusively.  They're the best combination of ergonomics, being very lightweight and flexible, and sonics, being very smooth, and transparent.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





red jacket mike said:


> If you listen to music seated near your amp, and you feel that your cable is too heavy, it is probably too short.  I bought a 10 foot Norse Audio cable for my LCD2s, which is long enough for it to rest on the floor between my chair and my equipment rack.  No weight issues at all.  The cable also sounds and looks great, and the workmanship is top notch.
> 
> I'm hoping Trevor will soon be making similar cables terminated for the HD800s; he said he eventually will make them for all of the current top phones, but next up are cables for the HE6.


 
   
  Got a link to where Norse Audio cables can be purchased?


----------



## Wedge

You have to email Trevor, norseaudio@gmail.com, and tell him you are interested in purchasing cables from him.


----------



## BmWr75

What is the price range for a 10' norse cable?


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





jalo said:


> As a matter of fact, I think a silver and gold cable is indeed the ultimate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  James, do you have the piccolino just for the jh13s or also for the lcd2s? how much are they 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## Jalo

Dave, I have the Piccolino for the JH13 only.  But I am trying to get one made for the LCD2 in the next few weeks.  I'll pm you with regard to price.  Didn't want to side track this thread.


----------



## daveDerek

James, are you running the piccolinos balanced or se on the jh13s? i wonder if they have the same difference between se and balanced that is seen with other cables. i'd love to hear your impressions about the piccolinos on both the hd800s as well as the lcd2s.


----------



## Jalo

My Piccolino is terminated in SE and the difference is already pretty significant when compare to my balance TWag and ALO, I am expecting even more improvement when I reterminate it in balance.


----------



## HK_sends

I drank the Kool-Aid and popped for the ALO RW8-SC Silver/Copper cable. Unfortunately, I won't get it until I get back from my business trip... Once I burn it in a bit, I will compare with the two other after-market cables I have (Norse 8-Wire copper and Moon Audio Blue Dragon v2). Then I will sell the two I like the least.

Right now, I find I like the Blue Dragon v2 better than the Norse sound-wise. The Norse seems to be much warmer (IMHO) while the Blue Dragon (although copper as well) seems more to be detailed with less of a veil over the highs (ok, less recessed...not so much of a veil).

I like Trevor's work with the Norse cable and the size didn't bother me, but sound-wise, just find myself listening to Drew's Blue Dragon more.
Unfortunately I had gotten his Silver Dragon before and returned it before giving it a proper burn-in (as others have told me). I hope the ALO cable gives me the best of both worlds.

Will report later.

Cheers!
-HK sends

PS - I saw the Blue Dragon v3 out on the Moon Audio website. It looks like Drew is now using the same sheath material as the Silver Dragon v3, which is very nice. Too bad I missed it.


----------



## WindyCityCy

This is the cable I have since I purchased it along with the LCD2 from Ken at ALO.  Will be interesting to hear your thoughts about how it compares to your other cables.  I don't have any others so can't make any kind of comparison.  I do like what I hear though and it is quite the beauty to look at.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I drank the Kool-Aid and popped for the ALO RW8-SC Silver/Copper cable. Unfortunately, I won't get it until I get back from my business trip... Once I burn it in a bit, I will compare with the two other after-market cables I have (Norse 8-Wire copper and Moon Audio Blue Dragon v2). Then I will sell the two I like the least.
> 
> Right now, I find I like the Blue Dragon v2 better than the Norse sound-wise. The Norse seems to be much warmer (IMHO) while the Blue Dragon (although copper as well) seems more to be detailed with less of a veil over the highs (ok, less recessed...not so much of a veil).
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

windycitycy said:


> This is the cable I have since I purchased it along with the LCD2 from Ken at ALO.  Will be interesting to hear your thoughts about how it compares to your other cables.  I don't have any others so can't make any kind of comparison.  I do like what I hear though and it is quite the beauty to look at.




Thanks for the input! I understand you don't have other cables for comparison, but do you find there's enough treble and mids "presence" and detail in your music with Ken's cable? I guess I am looking for impactful but articulate bass as well as smoothness and detail in the mid to upper end without it seeming to "take a back seat" to the bass.

A better question to ask is, do you think you would need to even try another cable or are you satisfied with what the RW8-SC delivers? I know it's all a matter of opinion, but yours is the first I've heard.

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have the same cable too and I'm very happy with it and see no reason to change. I can't compare it to the stock cable, as I got my LCD-2 from ALO as well. I'm running it balanced from a NFB-10ES. My T1's (black dragon re cable) still beats it on soundstage and they are still single ended. But I feel that's down to the respective qualities of the headphones themselves.


----------



## gogogasgas

I've just had notice that my LCD-2s are on their way, hooray! Alas, my headphone amp is still in the works. In the meantime, I am exploring my options wire-wise. Has anyone heard of a brand of silver cable called *SILVER AUDIO*? They sell mainly interconnects. However, I emailed the company and they would be willing to make a silver wire, balanced headphone cable for me.
   
  Those *DOUBLE HELIX* silver cables still hold the top spot on my wish-list, however... 
   
  PS: Mr Q, if death means nothing, then why does that bloke in the headphones seem so happy?


----------



## scootermafia

Congrats on the LCD-2.  I've been having a lot of fun with mine...I had a buddy confirm my suspicions, and our main finding was that the LCD-2 works well with more types of media and files that aren't the absolute best-produced.  The HD800 is so picky with source material.  The HD800 is a little more spacious, but the LCD-2 is overall most enjoyable, a good compromise between over-analytical/hollow and over-muddy.


----------



## grokit

Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Congrats on the LCD-2.  I've been having a lot of fun with mine...I had a buddy confirm my suspicions, and our main finding was that the LCD-2 works well with more types of media and files that aren't the absolute best-produced.  The HD800 is so picky with source material.  The HD800 is a little more spacious, but the LCD-2 is overall most enjoyable, a good compromise between over-analytical/hollow and over-muddy.


----------



## gogogasgas

DOUBLE HELIX - have you tried your silver cables with the LCD-2s? If so, how would you say they compare with the LCD-2s running with copper cables?
   
  Also, a cable manufacturer commented that the LCD-2 might not be able to wired in 'true' balanced configuration - is that true?


----------



## perrew

What amp are you using when hearing them less clear single ended?


----------



## gogogasgas

Thanks, Scoot! I am VERY interested to read what you have to say about the silver cable with the LCD-2s. It would be great to get one of the trusted Head Fi community to do a review before 'one' shelled out the clams. Skylab? iPodPJ? 
   
  That so-called 'darkness' in the LCD-2s that you and others have referred to might very well disappear with the silver cable. The LCD-2s supposedly measure well - the neutrality of silver wire might just reveal (not add) a bit of sparkle on the top end. So you noticed improved clarity when the LCD-2s were cabled in balanced configuration. Much of a difference?
   
  Good to know that the LCD-2s can be 'native' balanced headphones - thanks for the info. I too wondered about the $80 extra for the balanced cables, and opted for the single ended ones. Perhaps the XLRs Audeze use are more expensive than the jack-style connector on the single ended version, or it could be different cable in the balanced version. Anyway, I'll put the $80 toward a pair of balanced silver cables...


----------



## kwkarth

The "darkness" you guys are referring to?  Try using an appropriate DAC and amp!  Single ended doesn't sound as good as balanced?  Gimme a break!  Use a better amp!
  Too much misinformation around here.


----------



## scootermafia

I don't like how they sound out of the SE output of the AudioGD Phoenix.  The balanced outputs of the Phoenix as well as the B22 sound terrific.  Then again, the Phoenix's SE out just sucks period.  There is no question that the LCD2s appreciate the extra power of a balanced amp.  However, super-powerful tube amps that are SE will be just fine, I imagine, from what people have told me.  A lower-end SE amp is not going to cut it, though.  I wouldn't mind a little more sparkle out of my LCD2s so I am going to try the silver out when it arrives.


----------



## gogogasgas

As I'm not officially in the LCD-2 club as yet (though Fedex tell me I soon will be!), I can't comment from first-hand experience. However, there are a number of posts on HeadFi that refer to a slight reticence in the LCD-2s at the higher end of the audio spectrum. The measurements of the LCD-2s I have seen on this site seem to bear this out - a slight drop-off in the higher frequencies. Perhaps this what the HeadFi-ers are hearing. As for the balanced Vs single ended question: I thought the whole reason audio pros and audio enthusiasts pursued balanced connections was because of the improved sound quality. Isn't the issue a 'given'? (BTW from underneath Scooter's post, I see that he uses both a Phoenix and a balanced B22 for headphone amplification)


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I don't like how they sound out of the SE output of the AudioGD Phoenix.  The balanced outputs of the Phoenix as well as the B22 sound terrific.  Then again, the Phoenix's SE out just sucks period.  There is no question that the LCD2s appreciate the extra power of a balanced amp.  However, super-powerful tube amps that are SE will be just fine, I imagine, from what people have told me.  A lower-end SE amp is not going to cut it, though.  I wouldn't mind a little more sparkle out of my LCD2s so I am going to try the silver out when it arrives.


 
  Waaaaay back when the LCD-2 were introduced I told everybody what sort of power these would need to really shine and everybody laughed me to scorn.  Seems like people are finally starting to wake up.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> As I'm not officially in the LCD-2 club as yet (though Fedex tell me I soon will be!), I can't comment from first-hand experience. However, there are a number of posts on HeadFi that refer to a slight reticence in the LCD-2s at the higher end of the audio spectrum. The measurements of the LCD-2s I have seen on this site seem to bear this out - a slight drop-off in the higher frequencies. Perhaps this what the HeadFi-ers are hearing. As for the balanced Vs single ended question: I thought the whole reason audio pros and audio enthusiasts pursued balanced connections was because of the improved sound quality. Isn't the issue was a 'given'. (BTW from underneath Scooter's post, I see that he uses both a Phoenix and a balanced B22 for headphone amplification)


 
  The pursuit of balanced connections is really all about noise immunity.  There is no roll off in the highs of the LCD-2, but there isn't a peak either, which most other headphones have.
  
  Hopefully, you'll discover this for yourself when your LCD-2s arrive.  Happy listening!


----------



## scootermafia

The LCD-2s don't need as much knob as HD800 to reach the same volume, but they do sound their best balanced.  Balanced amps tend to have higher power outputs, which make them sound better, besides the noise rejection parts of it.  The Phoenix is my backup amp, I only use it to test cables, although its 3 pin outs sound great; its 1/4" output is an afterthought and so it's not a great example of a good 1/4" amp powering LCD-2s, just evidence of the more the merrier regarding power.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The LCD-2s don't need as much knob as HD800 to reach the same volume, but they do sound their best balanced.  Balanced amps tend to have higher power outputs, which make them sound better, besides the noise rejection parts of it.  The Phoenix is my backup amp, I only use it to test cables, although its 3 pin outs sound great; its 1/4" output is an afterthought and so it's not a great example of a good 1/4" amp powering LCD-2s, just evidence of the more the merrier regarding power.


 
  So, what is it about a balanced amp that makes the LCD-2s sound their best?


----------



## Wedge

I have heard the LCD-2 balanced and unbalanced, however not necessarily through the same amps.  I think the LCD-2 perform well through either, and its really more dependent on the amplifier, than the wiring choice of the LCD-2 IMO, the Leben is single ended and sounds great, the WA-22 is balanced and also sounds great.


----------



## gogogasgas

Although VERY flat in comparison to many headphones, there is a noticeble dip starting from 1K to 2K. The frequency response bobs up and down through to 20K. The main point - in the higher frequencies, the LCD-2 could/may sound a little recessed in comparison to the mids and lows.


----------



## MacedonianHero

gogogasgas said:


> Although VERY flat in comparison to many headphones, there is a noticeble dip starting from 1K to 2K. The frequency response bobs up and down through to 20K. The main point - in the higher frequencies, the LCD-2 could/may sound a little recessed in comparison to the mids and lows.




The lowered treble response was by design to account for the fact that the drivers are right next to your ears (unlike speakers). Notice that they are very well extended to 20kHz. I have yet to see a set of headphones measure that well. Throw in the square wave response at 50Hz and 500Hz....just amazing how Audeze was able to do this.


----------



## scootermafia

Some SE amps are just overpowered for headphones, big tubes amps like the WA5 and so on.  Balanced drive by definition provides twice the power, as it has four channels instead of two and the 2 grounds are actively driven.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> Although VERY flat in comparison to many headphones, there is a noticeble dip starting from 1K to 2K. The frequency response bobs up and down through to 20K. The main point - in the higher frequencies, the LCD-2 could/may sound a little recessed in comparison to the mids and lows.


 

 I don't believe you realize what you're looking at.

 The general shelf starting at 1kHz is part of the engineered voicing to meet HRTF requirements
 The "bobs" that you refer to are obvious resonances of the artificial ear canal used in the measurement of the headphone.  This type of standing wave problem is common to virtually all headphone response measurements made in this manner and is well understood by all who are familiar with these methods.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Some SE amps are just overpowered for headphones, big tubes amps like the WA5 and so on.  Balanced drive by definition provides twice the power, as it has four channels instead of two and the 2 grounds are actively driven.


 
   
   

 Twice the power of what?
 Four channels?  No there are two channels, left and right.  Grounds?  Where do you think the power goes that is emitted from the "+" terminal of the amp?


----------



## gogogasgas

Yes - I know what has been said about the voicing of the LCD-2s to allow for the proximity of the headphone cup/speaker to the ear and most of Kwarth's comments - all true. I should have put a caveat in bold text next to my post.
   
  Could the 'darkness' that some Head-Fi-ers are noticing be connected to some brands (also the stock item?) of copper cables? Could some cables exaggerate the frequency response of the LCD-2 by tampering with the mids and rolling off the highs? That's why I think silver cable would be a goer. Being basically neutral, a quality silver cable shouldn't add to the darkness issue. Quite the opposite - silver cables should get out of the way and really let the LCD-2s shine.


----------



## Chigorin

I'm not an owner of the LCD-2's, but I have been following this thread for a while, just passively observing the comments and it appears we have some feedback on the ALO Audio silver/copper cables, the Moon audio Blue and Silver Dragon's, the black magic's, Norse cables, and a few others.  It would appear that the people that have had the opportunity to audition the various cables are saying that the Alo Audio Silver/copper cables are the best choice in terms of SQ but seemed to be tied with the Black Magic according to a few posters...... Right?  I just want a very clear poll of Head-fier opinions as of now, seeing that owners have had time to listen and judge the SQ of their cables, and who knows, perhaps opinions have changed.  It would also appear that the Silver Dragons have been returned by at least two people in favor of other cables.  There have been no opinions of the Zeus silver cables as of yet because of their prices and lack of information as to the design of their cables.  It also appears that for the LCD-2's the majority of people are saying that Silver is the way to go, seeing as the stock cable is already made of decent copper, thus a greater difference in SQ would be heard with Silver, seeing as it's a better conductor.  Some have said that the choice of cable material depends on the source and Amp.  But majority lies with Silver.  So:  If I were to make a list of the cables that are to be considered the "best" in terms of SQ (ignoring other things like comfort, weight, etc)  would that list look something like this: ?
   
  1.  Alo Audio Silver/Copper combo
   
  2. Black magic Cable (perhaps tied with ALO seeing as the differences are small)
   
  3. Norse audio cable?
   
  help me make the list more accurate! and longer/more complete!  All of this is based on the owner's experience, and I'm just guessing here from reading all of the posts, again I'm not an owner just a curious observer trying to organize the leading cables in terms of SQ.  I'm also curious about the Piccolino cable which was mentioned a couple times in this thread which has Gold in it?!  whoa.  We need some head-fier hands on experience/opinions with those cables and the LCD-2!  if possible, it looks iffy atm though.  I look forward to more opinions about cables!  This is one of the more interesting discussions going on at head-fi right now IMO....


----------



## Skylab

IMHO, the Mood Audio Silver Dragon should be on that list.


----------



## nigeljames

And the Whiplash Audio  TWAG-2


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Twice the power of what?
> Four channels?  No there are two channels, left and right.  Grounds?  Where do you think the power goes that is emitted from the "+" terminal of the amp?


 
   
  Hey Kevin, stop baiting the trolls...   Seriously, there is a huge community here who believe that balanced = better, based largely on swallowing a lot of marketing malarky.  Their conviction is based on religion rather than knowledge, so you'll never convert them.  You only stir them up!   "Balanced = better" is taken on faith, since few people have your understanding of the difference between single-ended configurations and balanced configurations.  They don't want the truth...  They can't handle the truth (thank you Jack Nicholson).
   
  I've had an ongoing discussion with a couple of guys on another forum who are into the radical fringes of low power single-ended practice.  They argue that "simple is better."  Their contention is that every component that passes a signal will affect to a greater or lesser degree.  Thus they feel that a truly balanced approach, where a dual-differential pair of amplification circuits are used with a floating ground, will always harm a signal more than amplification with a single-ended approach.  They argue that the former will use nearly twice as many components, and thus presents twice as many opportunities to harm the signal.  They are strong proponents of Japanese single-ended gear like Shindo or Yamato, which is characterized by purity of tone, and great delivery of timbre.  Actually, I've been on the opposite side of that discussion, which is fun!, but it has been an interesting dialog.

  
  Frank


----------



## Skylab

It's funny how many people have asked me why I don't own a balanced amp, and how people have taken my answer with some bewilderment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But Kevin has been VERY clear from the get-go that the LCD-2 needed a good amount of power, and he was/is very right about that.  Some people simply never heard a powerful amp until they got one that was balanced, but there are LOTS of very powerful amps that are not balanced.  You do NOT need a "balanced" amp to get the most out of the LCD-2 - you just need a good amp with a lot of power.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





deadears said:


> Hey Kevin, stop baiting the trolls...   Seriously, there is a huge community here who believe that balanced = better, based largely on swallowing a lot of marketing malarky.  Their conviction is based on religion rather than knowledge, so you'll never convert them.  You only stir them up!   "Balanced = better" is taken on faith, since few people have your understanding of the difference between single-ended configurations and balanced configurations.  They don't want the truth...  They can't handle the truth (thank you Jack Nicholson).
> 
> I've had an ongoing discussion with a couple of guys on another forum who are into the radical fringes of low power single-ended practice.  They argue that "simple is better."  Their contention is that every component that passes a signal will affect to a greater or lesser degree.  Thus they feel that a truly balanced approach, where a dual-differential pair of amplification circuits are used with a floating ground, will always harm a signal more than amplification with a single-ended approach.  They argue that the former will use nearly twice as many components, and thus presents twice as many opportunities to harm the signal.  They are strong proponents of Japanese single-ended gear like Shindo or Yamato, which is characterized by purity of tone, and great delivery of timbre.  Actually, I've been on the opposite side of that discussion, which is fun!, but it has been an interesting dialog.
> 
> Frank


 
  You're right Frank, but I really didn't have baiting in mind when I posted.  I was honestly trying to get people to actually think about what they were saying, rather than simply parroting what they heard.  We all benefit from thinking occasionally.  Arguably, many balanced amps are better then many single ended designs, but the converse is true as well, and we must understand the strong/weak points of of any design to determine the advantages/disadvantages of each.  Bottom line though, is how something actually sounds.  So, I'm sorry for stirring up trouble, even though that was not my intent.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


skylab said:


> It's funny how many people have asked me why I don't own a balanced amp, and how people have taken my answer with some bewilderment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Rob.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> You're right Frank, but I really didn't have baiting in mind when I posted.  I was honestly trying to get people to actually think about what they were saying, rather than simply parroting what they heard.  We all benefit from thinking occasionally.  Arguably, many balanced amps are better then many single ended designs, but the converse is true as well, and we must understand the strong/weak points of of any design to determine the advantages/disadvantages of each.  Bottom line though, is how something actually sounds.  So, I'm sorry for stirring up trouble, even though that was not my intent.


 
   
  Actually, I had my tongue firmly in cheek.  There is certainly a tendency here for people to get on board a concept without necessarily understanding it.
   
  I do like the noise-cancelling characteristics of a true balanced design, but OTOH, I agree with you that other design considerations are more important in the obtained SQ.  It just seems to me that in the cable discussion people have fallen in love with 'balanced" without understanding how often they can get far superior sound with a better amp even if it is unbalanced.  Like "ooo, you're so cool running your LCD-2's balanced!"   I certainly appreciate your efforts to help people better understand what really matters in achieving sound with which they will be happy!
   
  Frank


----------



## gogogasgas

All the recent postings are indeed very helpful. Kwarth, instead of saying an opinion is pish-posh, be more fulsome in your explanation why. That way, you get a chance to share knowledge in an enlightening way and we, 'the unwashed millions', will cease to seem like parrots...
   
  In my case, I have ordered the Audio GD 'Phoenix'. This amp is designed primarily to be used in a balanced configuration. So, for better or worse, I am tied to the balanced path with cable selection choices for my LCD-2s.
   
  As for that list of cables that Chigoran asked for, bring it on! (from a personal standpoint, silver cable owners in particular!)


----------



## scootermafia

Now we're just arguing words here.  You can use the term channel to refer to left and right overall, but my beta22's left "channel" is made up of two identical channels for + and -, so four channels total between the four boards.  Some amps are 3-board like a 3-board B22 which has an "active ground channel"; the M3 is a 3-channel amp typically with a third opamp for the active ground.  It's still SE in that it uses a 1/4" plug but it did sound pretty good back when I owned one.   You can take a design like the mini3 or M3 and make it "balanced" by using each stereo board for a single channel, which doubles the power output.  Many people find that listening to their amp's balanced output sounds more clear and powerful than the 1/4" output on the same gear.  
   
  In general, a lot of balanced amps have the power to drive LCD-2s well while a SE version of the same amp might not sound as pleasing.  I definitely did not come into this thread to say that there are no good 1/4" amps for LCD-2, loads of 1/4" amps like the Lyr are super-powerful and make a good companion to the LCD2.  It is not being balanced that makes an amp powerful on its own, it's that a balanced version of a certain amp that incorporates extra stages for the ground channel is going to provide twice the power output compared to the SE version of that same amp, and that my experiences with my Phoenix show this phenomenon, that LCD-2s benefit from the extra juice.  I don't doubt that the Lyr is at least as powerful as the Phoenix if not more so, despite being single-ended, I'd have to compare some spec sheets.  
   
  There's nothing trendy about being balanced and I don't use balanced amps to be special or elite, I recognize that they provide additional power which high-end cans benefit from.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> All the recent postings are indeed very helpful. Kwarth, instead of saying an opinion is pish-posh, be more fulsome in your explanation why. That way, you get a chance to share knowledge in an enlightening way and we, 'the unwashed millions', will cease to seem like parrots...
> 
> In my case, I have ordered the Audio GD 'Phoenix'. This amp is designed primarily to be used in a balanced configuration. So, for better or worse, I am tied to the balanced path with cable selection choices for my LCD-2s.
> 
> As for that list of cables that Chigoran asked for, bring it on! (from a personal standpoint, silver cable owners in particular!)


 
  gogogasgas,
  I apologize for my sometimes laziness in posting.  
  A "balanced" amp is no more inherently wrong than it is inherently right.  Just realize there is nothing "magic" or inherently superior in calling an amp balanced.  Particularly true in the environments we commonly deal with in our head-fi world.  The cable I settled on for my daily LCD-2 fix happens to be constructed as a 4 conductor cable right to the XLR4 termination.  Some call that a "balanced" cable.  It would be more correct to call it a dual mono SE cable.  That is of little consequence.  It sounds good, it is aesthetically pleasing to my senses, and should hold up as good as any.  The point is, it meets my needs and wants in a cable.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Now we're just arguing words here.  You can use the term channel to refer to left and right overall, but my beta22's left "channel" is made up of two identical channels for + and -, so four channels total between the four boards.  Some amps are 3-board like a 3-board B22 which has an "active ground channel"; the M3 is a 3-channel amp typically with a third opamp for the active ground.  It's still SE in that it uses a 1/4" plug but it did sound pretty good back when I owned one.   You can take a design like the mini3 or M3 and make it "balanced" by using each stereo board for a single channel, which doubles the power output.  Many people find that listening to their amp's balanced output sounds more clear and powerful than the 1/4" output on the same gear.
> 
> In general, a lot of balanced amps have the power to drive LCD-2s well while a SE version of the same amp might not sound as pleasing.  I definitely did not come into this thread to say that there are no good 1/4" amps for LCD-2, loads of 1/4" amps like the Lyr are super-powerful and make a good companion to the LCD2.  It is not being balanced that makes an amp powerful on its own, it's that a balanced version of a certain amp that incorporates extra stages for the ground channel is going to provide twice the power output compared to the SE version of that same amp, and that my experiences with my Phoenix show this phenomenon, that LCD-2s benefit from the extra juice.  I don't doubt that the Lyr is at least as powerful as the Phoenix if not more so, despite being single-ended, I'd have to compare some spec sheets.
> 
> There's nothing trendy about being balanced and I don't use balanced amps to be special or elite, I recognize that they provide additional power which high-end cans benefit from.


 
  Back in the good old days when only SE head amps roamed the earth, the introduction of the first amp that was called "balanced" was introduced.  For that particular manufacturer, using existing amp modules in a bridged configuration was the most cost effective means for them to introduce to the world a more powerful headphone amp.  They chose to call it "balanced" which unfortunately as applied to dynamic headphones, is not entirely correct.  By definition a true balanced line has the same impedance between positive and negative drive and chassis ground for the purpose of common mode noise rejection.
   
  That was history and today it not necessary, even for that same company that started all this confusion to use a bridged output to make a more powerful headphone amp.
   
  It wasn't even a necessity when it was first brought to market by that company, but they chose to utilize the parts on hand rather than start from scratch with a new amp design.  Virtually no one else at the time besides them believed a more powerful amp was needed or would be commercially successful at the time.  The advent of re-introduction and interest in planar magnetic drivers for headphone technology has clinched the nail on that one.  Now everyone is scrambling to design more powerful head amps to meet the new market demands.    The originals were at the time, ahead of their time and I wish them continued success in the future!
   
  Anyway, scootermafia, no offense toward you intended and none taken.  I hope you understand where I'm coming from.  I just want to clear up all the rampant misunderstanding that plagues many of us.


----------



## MacedonianHero

skylab said:


> IMHO, the Mood Audio Silver Dragon should be on that list.




x2 

Love mine paired with my LCD-2s


----------



## Wedge

Me three.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> skylab said:
> ...


----------



## scootermafia

Thanks for the reply; bridged is the word. Not many head amps out there are true balanced, mostly that's seen in high end speaker gear.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Thanks for the reply; bridged is the word. Not many head amps out there are true balanced, mostly that's seen in high end speaker gear.


 
  The thing of it is that even at that, you've got a balanced input driving an unbalanced output, just like a headphone amp.


----------



## gogogasgas

Kwarth - are you saying that balanced cable connection designs are a similar concept to push-pull amplifiers - like applying negative feedback? (this is a layman's take) If so, is there a better way of connecting a single ended cable than using a jack style connector? Is that the XLR connection you opted for with your cables? Also, is the Phoenix a bridged amplifier design?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> Kwarth - are you saying that balanced cable connection designs are a similar concept to push-pull amplifiers - like applying negative feedback? (this is a layman's take) If so, is there a better way of connecting a single ended cable than using a jack style connector? Is that the XLR connection you opted for with your cables? Also, is the Phoenix a bridged amplifier design?


 
  Huh?


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





gogogasgas said:


> Kwarth - are you saying that balanced cable connection designs are a similar concept to push-pull amplifiers - like applying negative feedback? (this is a layman's take) If so, is there a better way of connecting a single ended cable than using a jack style connector? Is that the XLR connection you opted for with your cables? Also, is the Phoenix a bridged amplifier design?


 

 Let me describe one of my hi-fi systems that is totally balanced to perhaps help you with this.  I'm an analog/tube guy, so I'm going to stick with an analog description, but in theory the same thing holds true for digital.
   
  My system starts with a phono cartrige.  The phono cartridge converts physical motion into electrical current.  It has a magnet in it and a coil attached to a stylus.  When the stylus is placed on shiny black LP record, it wiggles sideways and up-and-down based on signals that are engraved on the surface of the record.  The sideways movement generates one channel signal, and the up-and-down generates the other channel signal (a sligtht oversimplification).  As the coil moves relative to the magnet, it generates a very very small voltage (0.25 millivolts).  When the stylus moves one way, the current is induced in one direction, and when it moves the other way, it induces current in the other direction. 
   
  For each channel, the stereo cartridge has two wires, which connect to the amplifier.  In a BALANCED configuration, there is no connection to ground (although there may be a separate grounding wire, which is not connected to the signal anywhere).  So the signal actual "floats" across the two wires, with no reference to ground.  *This float is maintaned throughout the amplfication chain. * In my system there is a phono amp, a preamp, and an amplifier which always keep the signal floating, and a separate ground wire.  So balanced connectors have three wires for each channel, with the two wires for the signal (as it swings positive to negative and back) and one wire for the ground, as seen in your typical XLR connector.  Each amplfiication stage simply boosts the voltage of the signal, hopefully in exact proportion to the original signal.  The signal has to be made big enough so that it can drive the transducer at the end of the chain that moves air to make sound.  It is exactly like the phono cartridge in reverse, converting electrical currents into physical motion.  As the needle swings one way, it generates a signal which is amplified to move the speaker/headphone element an exactly proportionate amount in the same direction.
   
  In an UNBALANCED configuration, at the junction with the amplifier, one wire is connected to a + terminal, and the other to a - terminal, which is grounded.  Actually, the ground connection may be elevated by a resistor to a value above or below ground potential for the rest of the amplifier circuitry.  The ground might be separate for each channel, or the two grounds might be connected together and referenced to the same point throughout the circuit.  Each signal wire can then be thought of as having two components, the Plus which represents the whole signal relative to ground, and the Minus, which provides the ground reference point.  The whole signal is super-imposed as positive-to-negative swings of the phono needle relative to ground.  The Minus provides a return path for current to and from ground.  When the voltage on the signal wire goes negative relative to ground, current flows from ground, whereas when it goes positive current flows to ground (physically the electrons move the other direction, but don't worry about that).  So you only need two wires for each channel, usually connected via an RCA connector.  The center pin carries the signal relative to ground, and the outer shield carries the return path for signal current to flow.
   
  Under ideal conditions, these two connection approaches produce *exactly the same results*, regardless of whether they have two wires or three wires.  Some people argue that the balanced approach is actually INFERIOR b/c it requires more active amplification components to keep the signal elevated and floating above the ground.  The unbalanced amp requires fewer active components to achieve the same result, and every component has at least some chance of affecting the signal.
   
  Of course, we all know that there is no such thing as ideal conditions.  And the further we depart from ideal, the more valuable a balanced connection becomes.  For instance, throughout the amplification process, there is usually a chance for power supply noise (in the form of ripple currents, or HF interference, or induced currents) to be picked up by the wiring and to be amplified along with the signal.  In a balanced configuration a "blip" of power supply noise might be induced on both signal wires.  But since one half of the signal is going positive, and the other half is going negative, the noise is cancelled out.  It exists on both wires simultaneously, but in different polarity, so the transducer will not move and you will not hear the noise.
   
  In an unbalanced system, when noise is induced, it will always be relative to ground.  Since the signal is also referenced to ground, when noise is amplified along with the signal, it will also appear at the transducer, so you will hear it.  Well-designed unbalanced systems are carefully constructed to minimize any chance for noise to enter the signal path.  And most succeed, with noise anywhere from 70-110 db below signal.  However, it is still easier to disrupt an unbalanced system, and noise can become apparent in many ways, such as through power contamination (HF modulation from the power company, or other stuff connected to power lines in the home) or through interference along signal transitions, such as at connectors, or along cables.
   
  Equally excellent results can be achieved with either balanced or unbalanced connections.  Given the exact same circuit, under ideal conditions, unbalanced can actually sound better.  In real world terms, it mostly does not matter.  You do NOT get more power from a balanced system.  Nor does it sound any different (e.g. clearer/better) unless there are important noise components in your home or along your amplification chain.  Most of the effects attributed to unbalanced connections are due to other factors, not the connection or the wires.  So the whole balanced=better argument is frankly specious (and my name is Frank).
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hope this helps!
   
  Frank


----------



## K3cT

wedge said:


> Me three.




Make it four. The best thing about this cable is how light the thing is besides being decently priced and providing improvement in the critical areas of course.


----------



## Wedge

On the topic of balanced cables, typically the "ground" connection is usually only connected on one side of the cable, to provide a shield for the cable (this is in addition to Frank's post above for those who might know).
   
  Interesting thing I did notice today is that on the WA-22 with my LCD-2 when using the balanced ports and comparing the 1/4" port, they did not sound the same.  It wasn't a question of power, but I'm not quite sure what could be different except for being terminated differently at the output transformer, which might also be the phenomena that others are experiencing with their "balanced" amplifiers.  Anyways the balanced ports sounded like they had more bass, the 1/4" sounded brighter, however without really sitting down and investigating, it might just be less bass fooling with me.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





wedge said:


> On the topic of balanced cables, typically the "ground" connection is usually only connected on one side of the cable, to provide a shield for the cable (this is in addition to Frank's post above for those who might know).
> 
> Interesting thing I did notice today is that on the WA-22 with my LCD-2 when using the balanced ports and comparing the 1/4" port, they did not sound the same.  It wasn't a question of power, but I'm not quite sure what could be different except for being terminated differently at the output transformer, which might also be the phenomena that others are experiencing with their "balanced" amplifiers.  Anyways the balanced ports sounded like they had more bass, the 1/4" sounded brighter, however without really sitting down and investigating, it might just be less bass fooling with me.


 

 On the latter topic, I've heard a lot more differences in SQ due to connectors and wire geometry than I have due to wire composition (e.g. silver, copper, or silver-plated copper).  The same wire with different brand/type connectors sounds different, at least to me.  I suspect they affect the wire capacitance/resistance in minor, yet audible ways.  In general, I'm not a big believer in boutique wire, although I have heard differences (which makes me crazy).  So it could well be the nature of the connections that is causing the differerences you note above.  Or maybe you're just going crazy, like me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  YMMV


----------



## Wedge

I actually have the same wire material, difference in conductor number.  XLR set of cables Norse Audio 8 conductor, 1/4" were Norse Audio 4 Conductor.  Although I can't prove it I tend to think the 4 vs 8 conductors would make that much of a difference in the sound.  2 other people listened as well, noted the exact same thing (three of us are engineers, at times electrical engineers can be the biggest skeptics).  Oh well, I know I am already crazy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

k3ct said:


> wedge said:
> 
> 
> > Me three.
> ...




See, we can agree on a few things.


----------



## gogogasgas

Well, careful when you ask for a 'fulsome' response! DeadEars, your explanation was excellent. Not being an audio engineer, I still got the gist of what you are saying. Thanks.
   
  KWKARTH- what I was trying to say is: in a push-pull amp, although a certain amount of distortion is cancelled out, purists say that the signal is affected because there is the potential for non linearity (ie out of phase) as the signal is amplified. I assume the phase issue is why single ended amps are pursued.
   
  I was thinking that although unwanted 'noise' is cancelled out in a balanced configuration, there is the potential that the two sides of the amplification process are unequal (for want of the proper terminology) - hence my reference to a push-pull amp. Same, same, but different, as the saying goes...
   


deadears said:


> On the latter topic, I've heard a lot more differences in SQ due to connectors and wire geometry than I have due to wire composition (e.g. silver, copper, or silver-plated copper).  The same wire with different brand/type connectors sounds different, at least to me.  I suspect they affect the wire capacitance/resistance in minor, yet audible ways.  In general, I'm not a big believer in boutique wire, although I have heard differences (which makes me crazy).  So it could well be the nature of the connections that is causing the differerences you note above.  Or maybe you're just going crazy, like me...


 
   
  Not crazy! I have been mulling over the same issue. I'm looking at a set of cables that have XLRs with contacts made from a different metal to the XLR sockets I sent Audio GD for my Phoenix. So, I will try to get the 'mates' for the XLRs fitted to my headphone amp when I order my cables to maintain the same type of metal contact. (eg gold female to gold male, silver female to silver male etc).
   
  Along these lines, I was thinking about cables that mix metals. For example, silver coated copper etc. A quick bit of research on ye olde internet yields information that suggests that could also be an issue. I think keeping the metals, or at least the metals in the contact points, the same in the connection chain is something to consider. 
  


wedge said:


> I actually have the same wire material, difference in conductor number.  XLR set of cables Norse Audio 8 conductor, 1/4" were Norse Audio 4 Conductor.  Although I can't prove it I tend to think the 4 vs 8 conductors would make that much of a difference in the sound.  2 other people listened as well, noted the exact same thing (three of us are engineers, at times electrical engineers can be the biggest skeptics).  Oh well, I know I am already crazy.


 
  Not crazy either. Number of conductors, perhaps. XLR Vs Jack (ie single ended), more likely.
   
  Silver Dragon 3 - Although some have sent them back, there is a real following of these silver cables. Perhaps the SD3 users might provide some more insight into why they like their cables with the LCD-2s.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I actually have the same wire material, difference in conductor number.  XLR set of cables Norse Audio 8 conductor, 1/4" were Norse Audio 4 Conductor.  Although I can't prove it I tend to think the 4 vs 8 conductors would make that much of a difference in the sound.  2 other people listened as well, noted the exact same thing (three of us are engineers, at times electrical engineers can be the biggest skeptics).  Oh well, I know I am already crazy.


 

 Nice to see we're both crazy in similar ways.  Get to share the same sanitarium wing...
   
  I've been meaning to build a bunch of different headphone wires for the LCD-2's to explore this further.  Specifically, I'm interested in different wire geometry (twisted pair, helix, braided, litz variations) first, while trying to keep the connectors as a constant.  I know that others have explored this, but those who have seem to have taken their findings to the bank by offering their "best" solutions as products for sale.  Few have shared their findings, at least here in the DIY forum.  I was taught that wire can be modeled based on resistance, capacitance, inductance, and nothing else matters.  So it's fascinating to me that geometry seems to matter WRT sound quality.
   
  When you add connector/brands & types and soldering/crimping approach & types/brands of solder as additional variables, the number of combinations/permutations becomes too large for a simple hobbyist like me to deal with.  And of course, these all interact with the geometry and with the characteristics of the headphones & drivers, so the "best" answer for one headphone brand/model may be quite different for another.  IOW, my LCD-2 solution will not be the best choice for Grados.
   
  That's the best argument I can think of for purchasing a commercial solution that many people have found to work well with your cans.  Lots of convergence of evidence that the maker has gotten it "right."  But of course still lots of opportunity for someone else to introduce a headphone cable that does it even better.  (sigh).


----------



## castlevania32

i'm about to order a 4-stranded cable from Trevor :
   
  -the 8-strand does not give a better sound
  -the 4-strand is lighter
   
  Also i want to insist on how bad the stock cable of the LCD2 is. I can't believe how awful it was. It is heavy, it changes shape, must be straigtened otherwise turns on itself,  too short, the sheath makes weird things, microphonics really hard after the breakout.
   
  I think trevor and audeze should associate to make the LCD2 comes in standard with the Norse. Even if that means an increased price on LCD2.
   
  edit : i'm talking about the ADZ-5


----------



## hardtarget666

Quote: 





castlevania32 said:


> i'm about to order a 4-stranded cable from Trevor :
> 
> -the 8-strand does not give a better sound
> -the 4-strand is lighter
> ...


 

 I'm thinking about ordering balanced cable for my LCD-2 from Trevor. I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that 8 strand is no better than 4 strand. Its an honest question.


----------



## castlevania32

I don't have a scientific argument, it's based on my intuition. Somewhere i think i read that the only thing going from 4 to 8 is a resistance divison by 2. Which is totally pointless in this situation.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





castlevania32 said:


> Also i want to insist on how bad the stock cable of the LCD2 is. I can't believe how awful it was. It is heavy, it changes shape, must be straigtened otherwise turns on itself,  too short, the sheath makes weird things, microphonics really hard after the breakout.


 

 My stock (new version) cable has none of these deficiencies. I expected to order an aftermarket cable almost immediately after receiving my LCD-2, but as of yet have had no reason to do so.


----------



## hardtarget666

Quote: 





castlevania32 said:


> I don't have a scientific argument, it's based on my intuition. Somewhere i think i read that the only thing going from 4 to 8 is a resistance divison by 2. Which is totally pointless in this situation.


 

  
  Ok! I've kind of decided to go for the 8 cable one as it looks better IMHO although still not 100% sure if I want to go for all copper cable or silver or mix. But it does look like Norse is best bang for buck for the moment.
   
  Any more impressions on the Norse cable by anyone here will be very valuable.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## 45longcolt

Go for the Norse because;
  (a) it does make a worthwhile improvement over stock;
  (b) it is notably well made;
  (c) Trevor is professional, communicative and delivers at warp speed.
  Last month he made me an 8-strand with the 4-pin XLR to fit the Violectric V181. When I wanted to use the cable on a Lyr as well, I asked him for an XLR to 1/4" adpater. From order to install was almost precisely 48 hours. Yes, really. Color me highly satisfied.


----------



## kwkarth

Good news!  Looks like Q-Audio has revised their prices a lot lower than they were at introduction.  They're balanced and terminated in an A4M, with TRS unbalanced adapter included.
   
  New pricing is:
   

 1.0M - $200
 1.5M - $215
 2.0M - $230
 2.5M - $250 
 3.0M - $275 
 3.5M - $300 
 4.0M - $340


----------



## HK_sends

kwkarth said:


> Good news!  Looks like Q-Audio has revised their prices a lot lower than they were at introduction.  They're balanced and terminated in an A4M, with TRS unbalanced adapter included.
> 
> New pricing is:
> 
> ...




Do you have a link for them?

Thanks,
-HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Q-Audio's site is q-audio.com, but I don't think the site has been updated to reflect the new info.  Steve sent me a PM telling me about the price change.


----------



## HK_sends

kwkarth said:


> Q-Audio's site is q-audio.com, but I don't think the site has been updated to reflect the new info.  Steve sent me a PM telling me about the price change.




Thank you, Sir!

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## hardtarget666

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Good news!  Looks like Q-Audio has revised their prices a lot lower than they were at introduction.  They're balanced and terminated in an A4M, with TRS unbalanced adapter included.
> 
> New pricing is:


 


> 1.0M - $200
> 1.5M - $215
> 2.0M - $230
> 2.5M - $250
> ...


 

  
  Arrgh.....I just ordered my cables from Norse audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Ah well, you win some you lose some.


----------



## Skylab

Wow that's good news.  Time to try a set of those!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Good news!  Looks like Q-Audio has revised their prices a lot lower than they were at introduction.


 
   
  Thanks, Kevin! Though truth be told, it wasn't so much a "price revision" as the correction of a rather embarrassing mistake. It was one of those instances where the mistake was so obvious, I just didn't see it.
   
  Kevin was the beta tester for the LCD-2 cable project and after some very favorable feedback, he asked me what they would be priced at. I replied (much too flippantly in hindsight) that I'd just price them the same as my interconnects and speaker cables for the equivalent lengths.
   
  That was back in January.
   
  Then the other day as I was building up a cable for a recent order, it finally hit me.
   
  The interconnects and speaker cables are priced per PAIR. The headphone cable was more akin to just a SINGLE cable.
   

   
  So I picked myself up, brushed myself off, re-worked the pricing (which turned out to be not quite half as there's a little more labor and a little more parts cost in the headphone cable), and then sent refunds and apologies to everyone who had previously ordered the cables.
   
  And that's the whole, embarrassing truth behind the "price revision."
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Thanks, Kevin! Though truth be told, it wasn't so much a "price revision" as the correction of a rather embarrassing mistake. It was one of those instances where the mistake was so obvious, I just didn't see it.
> 
> Kevin was the beta tester for the LCD-2 cable project and after some very favorable feedback, he asked me what they would be priced at. I replied (much too flippantly in hindsight) that I'd just price them the same as my interconnects and speaker cables for the equivalent lengths.
> 
> ...


 
  LOL, that's a great "tail over teakettle" picture!  Major face plant.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> LOL, that's a great "tail over teakettle" picture!  Major face plant.


 
   
  Yeah, I came across that in a Google image search for "faceplant" a few years ago. Too cute!
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Kevin's impressions certainly sold me on your work. And I appreciate the "market correction" in the cable prices.

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## Girls Generation

Okay, I've been stalking this thread looking for the best bang for the buck aftermarket cables. So far, I have three.

- Silver Dragon v3
- Norse Audio
- Q-Audio (?) waiting on impressions

May I request impressions on each of the three? I'm specifically targetting the SQ, and nothing else (like weight, bulkiness, comfort issues).


----------



## banger

Got my new Q-Audio cable in for my LCD-2's. My set is 10ft long with an SE end.
   
  After 3 days of listening A/B between the stock ADZ-5 and Steve's cable.
   
  I must say that I am impressed! Opened up the stage on the LCD-2 quite nicely!
   
  These are definitely keepers. The set is very light, excellent craftsmanship, and for the money, I feel like I stole them!
   
  Steve is a super great guy to deal with and talk to.
   
  As you can see, I have been here a long time, and usually don't post. However, I just had to comment on these cables.


----------



## HK_sends

banger said:


> Got my new Q-Audio cable in for my LCD-2's. My set is 10ft long with an SE end.
> 
> After 3 days of listening A/B between the stock ADZ-5 and Steve's cable.
> 
> ...




That's great, I can't wait to try the Q-Cable! I like my Blue Dragon cable's sound but the construction almost seems too delicate and I am afraid I will break it. I have the Norse 8-Wire, and it is very rugged but the sound is a bit warm for me (although I am experimenting with some other equipment that may affect its sound). How would you rate the Q-cable for durability? Delicate? ...or able to withstand daily (ab)use?

Could you post pics of your cable?

Thanks, and Cheers!
-HK sends

P.S. - Steve really is great to work with...actually so is Trevor at Norse and Drew at Moon Audio. :biggrin:


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> That's great, I can't wait to try the Q-Cable! I like my Blue Dragon cable's sound but the construction almost seems too delicate and I am afraid I will break it. I have the Norse 8-Wire, and it is very rugged but the sound is a bit warm for me (although I am experimenting with some other equipment that may affect its sound). How would you rate the Q-cable for durability? Delicate? ...or able to withstand daily (ab)use?
> 
> Could you post pics of your cable?
> Thanks, and Cheers!
> ...


 
  Pics were posted here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/60#post_7285014
   
  write up here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/45#post_7284268


----------



## HK_sends

kwkarth said:


> Pics were posted here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/60#post_7285014
> 
> write up here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/45#post_7284268




Thanks, Kevin!

I knew I had seen the posts somewhere, but somehow I kept overlooking them.
Looking forward to my Q-cable!

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm eager to hear your thoughts and impressions after you get the cable.  The more I use mine, the more I like it.


----------



## Skylab

The more I look at it, the more I like it.
  I do think it's good.
  The fact is, no matter how closely I study it,
  No matter how I take it apart,
  No matter how I break it down,
  It remains consistent.
  I wish you were here to see it!


----------



## IPodPJ

I've got a pair of Steve's XLR cables here I'm anxious to try, but I can't until Audio-gd comes through and finally delivers my new DAC.  They've changed the delivery date on me 3 times.  The Q cables look very nice and are very lightweight, so I'm sure they'd make for a very comfortable headphone cable.  I'm still trying to convince Steve to make some HD800 cables.


----------



## grokit

Which DAC did you order?


----------



## IPodPJ

The RE7.1.  Originally I had the RE1, then the RE7, and now I'm going for the latest and greatest to see if there's any noticeable difference.  It's also being wired with OCC silver.  I've always loved Audio-gd's gear because it's exceptional for the price.  Their top-tier stuff sounds really, really good when paired with top-tier components.
   
  Apparently their lead times now are 1-2 months for the RE7.1 but my expected date of completion has changed 3 times so far.  Back when Kingwa was communicating with customers, turnarounds were about 2-3 weeks.  I've only been able to talk to Edwin (as I don't think anyone can get ahold of Kingwa anymore, not sure why) and he said they are very busy and short staffed.  But if they have gotten so busy why not put on more people to get the orders out quicker and on time?  Some companies have a hard time coping with growth and I would really hate to see his sales go down because of avoidable lengthy turnaround times.


----------



## Currawong

It's OT, but AFAIK Kingwa is having trouble getting all the parts he needs.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> I'm still trying to convince Steve to make some HD800 cables.


 

 Even if I were willing, there's still the connector issue.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Even if I were willing, there's still the connector issue.
> se


 
  Connector availability issues will soon be fixed.


----------



## IPodPJ

Yep, some of the cable vendors are saying "WE'RE MAD AS HELL AND WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!" so there should be some available soon.
  It's only hurting Sennheiser's business by not offering the connectors.  Having aftermarket headphone cables only serves to increase sales, not decrease them.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





currawong said:


> It's OT, but AFAIK Kingwa is having trouble getting all the parts he needs.


 

 And the product page does mention that the 7.1 is "[size=x-small]difficult for building",[/size] but that looks like a monster DAC. I have been looking into upgrading to the NFB-1ES myself, so I was wondering about the availability of those.


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The more I look at it, the more I like it.
> I do think it's good.
> The fact is, no matter how closely I study it,
> No matter how I take it apart,
> ...


 
   
  Rob, gotta love the Indiscipline reference. that's a from a ground breaking album from a ground breaking band. i saw the Discipline (and other) tour(s) a whole bunch of times - fantastic! they re-invented how a rock band functions. i wish you were there to see it!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Connector availability issues will soon be fixed.


 

 Will it be a straight clone or will they improve the design? Namely, making the solder cups on the pins more adequate for larger than 28 gauge wire. That's what turned me off on them even before Sennheiser strong armed ODU.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> It's only hurting Sennheiser's business by not offering the connectors.  Having aftermarket headphone cables only serves to increase sales, not decrease them.


 
   
  Yeah. Seems Sennheiser has a bad case of the NIH (Not Invented Here) corporate mentality.
   
  se


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote:


grokit said:


> And the product page does mention that the 7.1 is "[size=x-small]difficult for building",[/size] but that looks like a monster DAC. I have been looking into upgrading to the NFB-1ES myself, so I was wondering about the availability of those.


 

 I don't understand why it's more difficult to build than the Ref 7 was.  They aren't using separate ACSS modules this time, but instead putting the circuitry directly on the main boards.  Wouldn't this be (if even marginally) less work?
   
  I'm fairly patient when it comes to waiting for gear.  I'm not one of those people who's world will end if my purchase isn't here within a week.  I just don't think it's right to have a delivery date changed on someone three times.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> I just don't think it's right to have a delivery date changed on someone three times.


 
   
  Three times? How 'bout... Hmmm.. I forget. How many times was it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Will it be a straight clone or will they improve the design? Namely, making the solder cups on the pins more adequate for larger than 28 gauge wire. That's what turned me off on them even before Sennheiser strong armed ODU.
> se


 
  Not sure Steve.  I'll see if I can find out.


----------



## sridhar3

Is the connector supply issue only for the 800? Or are they also refusing the 6xx series?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Is the connector supply issue only for the 800? Or are they also refusing the 6xx series?


 
  There are already other sources for the 2 pin connectors.


----------



## Girls Generation

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OT so bad 
Impressions/comparisons on custom cables vs. current stock cables please! Soon-to-own-LCD2 here! Need yourguyseshelp!


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Three times? How 'bout... Hmmm.. I forget. How many times was it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not talking about what happened between you and I -- otherwise the number certainly wouldn't have been 3.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I'm talking about Audio-gd's.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Not sure Steve.  I'll see if I can find out.


 

 Thanks, Kevin!
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> I'm not talking about what happened between you and I -- otherwise the number certainly wouldn't have been 3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know what you were talking about. I was just engaging in a little self-deprecating humor is all.
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

steve eddy said:


> I know what you were talking about. I was just engaging in a little self-deprecating humor is all.
> 
> se




Aw, come on...it's no fun if others can't depreciate you too! 

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Back on topic...I pulled the trigger on one of Steve's Q cables and am really looking forward to trying it out.
I ordered a balanced cable and a single end adapter (since I have no balanced amps at the moment).
Now I need to see what kind of balanced amp goes well with the LCD-2s (or wait until Schiit Audio releases one).

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Aw, come on...it's no fun if others can't depreciate you too!


 

 What can I say? I'm a selfish bum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Girls Generation

Silver Dragon vs. Q audio vs. Norse audio. 

Comparisons SVP!


----------



## WindyCityCy

Does anyone have the Whiplash TWag V2 for the LCD-2.  I'm thinking of getting a 2nd cable (my current cable is ALO copper/silver round chainmail balanced which I really like).  The reason for getting a 2nd cable is for a 2nd amp.  I'm using the ALO balanced cable with my WA22 and want a shorter SE cable for my HA-160D.  Looking for some suggestions and also thoughts on the Whiplash specifically.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


windycitycy said:


> Does anyone have the Whiplash TWag V2 for the LCD-2.  I'm thinking of getting a 2nd cable (my current cable is ALO copper/silver round chainmail balanced which I really like).  The reason for getting a 2nd cable is for a 2nd amp.  I'm using the ALO balanced cable with my WA22 and want a shorter SE cable for my HA-160D.  Looking for some suggestions and also thoughts on the Whiplash specifically.


 
   
  Would it be cheaper to get ALO to make you an XLR-to-TRS adapter out of the same cable?


----------



## WindyCityCy

I'm really looking into getting another cable.  Not a big fan of adapters and having a bunch of extra cable.


----------



## Wedge

I can say that I have had the Q-Audio cable for a few days.  And what a cable, ergonomically it is the best cable, perhaps the only thing I might ask for is where the L and R split off I have always had a preference to have a block there, a small carribean rosewood circle with Q etched in, or maybe a miniature LCD-2 grille, LoL.  Sound wise I like this better that any of my silver cables.  I like it so much I am considering upgrading my interconnects to Q's.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I can say that I have had the Q-Audio cable for a few days.  And what a cable, ergonomically it is the best cable, perhaps the only thing I might ask for is where the L and R split off I have always had a preference to have a block there, a small carribean rosewood circle with Q etched in, or maybe a miniature LCD-2 grille, LoL.  Sound wise I like this better that any of my silver cables.  I like it so much I am considering upgrading my interconnects to Q's.


 

 Same here, Wedge.  The Q is absolutely for sure the best aftermarket cable I have tried ergonomically - very light and flexible.  And In my comparisons so far to the Norse Audio, which I like very much too, the Q  cable seems to have a little more transparency without being even one tiny bit bright or edgy.  I'm very impressed with it so far.


----------



## kwkarth

I won't say I told ya so, but...


----------



## Wedge

Consider this as well.  He has the best workmanship I have seen so far in aftermarket headphone cables.


----------



## HK_sends

I just got back from my business trip and picked my Q-Cable. It's light and appears delicate (but Steve assured me that looks are deceiving).
My only complaint is it's wired backwards! The electron flow was supposed to go the other direction..:veryevil:
Hopefully it won't affect the sound quality much (and new Head-Fi members realize I'm not serious...)

It's an excellent looking cable and I can't wait to try it out! 

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## sridhar3

What's the website for these?  All I was able to find was http://www.q-audio.com/.  Would like to do some reading, if possible.


----------



## Wedge

Thats the right website but Steve hasn't put them up there yet.  If you email him he will give you the prices, not sure what else there is to read.  He explains copper litz wire on his webpage quite well.  My cable have Rean mini xlr and Neutrik 1/4" the other has Neutrik 4 pin xlr.


----------



## driftingbunnies

[size=medium]I just received a cable from doublehelix for an extremely reasonable price if people are still looking for good cables. I've never had any quality issues with his cables and have all sounded great. Very similar in pricing compared to the Q-audio cables. ​[/size]


----------



## Skylab

kwkarth said:


> I won't say I told ya so, but...


Yeah, not surprisingly, Kevin, you were right! There IS something special about these Q-Audio cables. I've already decided they are keepers, for sure. They manage that really hard trick of being both very smooth and very transparent and detailed. There really does seem to be a clarity to them that is the best I've had with the LCD-2, that is NOT born of a brightness or artificial etch.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm really glad you like them Rob.  As I was telling Wedge, it's nice to get confirmation from time to time that I haven't reverted to tin ears yet.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As I was telling Wedge, it's nice to get confirmation from time to time that I haven't reverted to tin ears yet.


 
   
  Then again, maybe you just got lucky. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> What's the website for these?  All I was able to find was http://www.q-audio.com/.  Would like to do some reading, if possible.


 


  My apologies.
   
  We're in the middle of a makeover for the website including new photography and I decided add information on the headphone cables when that goes live (hopefully in early May).
   
  There's really not a whole lot more to say as the headphone cables are made using the same litz wire, cotton sleeving and quad braid as our interconnect and speaker cables. And of course if you have any questions feel free to contact us.
   
  se


----------



## NWRain

Will you offer cables for the Sennheiser HD800?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Then again, maybe you just got lucky.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Always.


----------



## Wedge

I think my ears are lucky to have found this place, but my wallet sure hates me now.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





nwrain said:


> Will you offer cables for the Sennheiser HD800?


 

 I'd love to, but I really wasn't at all impressed with the connector they chose for the HD-800's. But that's rather moot as currently there are no aftermarket HD-800 connectors available since Sennheiser convinced ODU to prohibit sales of the connector to anyone but Sennheiser.
   
  There's talk of an independent effort to have an equivalent plug made for it but I would first have to evaluate it before I decide to offer an HD-800 cable.
   
  Thanks for asking. If I decide to do it I'll put a notice of it up on the website.
   
  se


----------



## IPodPJ

And if he does do it, I better be the first person to get one.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> And if he does do it, I better be the first person to get one.


 

 Yeah? What makes you think you rate? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## guitarplayer

Any pics?  Steve has a great eye for design, I'd love to see his cable!
   
  Peace,
   
  Lee


----------



## sluker

How about some pictures guys?


----------



## kwkarth

I posted pics of mine long ago.  I'll look and see if I can find them.
   
  Here we go:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/45#post_7284268
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503640/what-cables-for-audeze-ldc-2/60#post_7285014


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





guitarplayer said:


> Any pics?  Steve has a great eye for design, I'd love to see his cable!


 

 Thank you for the kind words, Lee.
   
  I've a set going up to my business partner in Canada who will be doing all the new photography for the website but for now the only photos available at the moment are Kevin's.
   
  Not much to look at really. Just a lot of... black.
   
  Now, the set I made for a customer in golden yellow, those were a bit more to look at.
   
  And if anyone wants to get crazy, we can do cables in any combination of these colors: http://www.q-audio.com/images/threads.html
   
  There's a $30 surcharge to cover braider setup and shipping and lead time is 2 to 4 weeks.
   
  se


----------



## Wedge

I really like the brown ones.


----------



## sluker

Same here. I think the brown will go well with the LCD's.
I just sent in my order, can't wait to try them out.


----------



## driftingbunnies




----------



## grokit

Sweet-looking Macromolecule, driftingbunnies.


----------



## driftingbunnies

Thanks. The cables look and sound great. Definitely one of the better cables I got from doublehelix.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





driftingbunnies said:


> Thanks. The cables look and sound great. Definitely one of the better cables I got from doublehelix.


 

 And if I might add, Peter's good people.
   
  se


----------



## grokit

Now that is awesome, one cable maker/vendor actually praising another. I will chime in and say that I have four of Peter's molecule cables and they are first rate, with first-rate service to go with them.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Now that is awesome, one cable maker/vendor actually praising another.


 

 Now don't get me wrong. His products absolutely suck. But Peter's good people. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: For certain moderators who might not "get it," *I AM ONLY JOKING!*
   
  se


----------



## sluker

That's more like it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Now don't get me wrong. His products absolutely suck. But Peter's good people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## oosek

Any more comments regarding the Black Magic, Blue Dragon, Norse, ALO RW8C, Macromolecule and Molecule cables? They all look great. Please compare the sound between these cables and which ones you would prefer with your current LCD-2 SE or balanced setup.


----------



## driftingbunnies

I don't think you can really go wrong with any of them. You're not going to be hearing an entirely different headphone with different cables so whichever you feel looks the best or whoever you would want to deal with, I would say go in that direction. I've bought multiple cables from Doublehelixcables so I know the quality and have never had problems with it. I also talk to Peter about different things so I'm willing to give my business to him since I know he won't cheat me on quality. I don't have the luxury of trying different cables. I would rather purchase a better amp with that money to be honest.


----------



## ninjikiran

After much use, I decided to unbox the factory default cable.  I don't see how its less detailed, if anything it sounds cleaner which I gather is from less interference.
   
  This was after a few months...


----------



## Wedge

As compared to what?
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> After much use, I decided to unbox the factory default cable.  I don't see how its less detailed, if anything it sounds cleaner which I gather is from less interference.
> 
> This was after a few months...


----------



## Permagrin

equus said:


> I use the ALO cable.  It is, as Skylab mentions, pretty bulky, but I'm usually listening to my LCD-2 while reclined, so the weight doesn't factor in as much for me.




ditto


----------



## ninjikiran

Going to withhold the name~  but one of the popular cables in this thread.  Going to get the cable checked out though...
  
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> As compared to what?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> After much use, I decided to unbox the factory default cable.  I don't see how its less detailed, if anything it sounds cleaner which I gather is from less interference.
> This was after a few months...


 
  You should not have any interference from anything.  If you do, something is wrong.


----------



## ninjikiran

I don't get any at all with stock cable or any other headphones to reliterate.
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> You should not have any interference from anything.  If you do, something is wrong.


----------



## Permagrin

kwkarth said:


> You should not have any interference from anything.  If you do, something is wrong.




I'm guessing ninjikiran was trying to say it had better conductivity?


----------



## DannyBuoy

Update:
  I use the V800 and V181 balanced so I needed a balanced cable.
  I bought the Norse Audio 8 Wire and was very happy with the build quality and sound quality of the cable although it is a bit heavy.
  Last week I got the AproditeCU *Zeus* OCC quad 22 cable and I am really happy with it. It has excellent build quality and is much much lighter than the Norse cable. At the SD meet last weekend I was A/B ing the two cables and I prefer the Zeus sound slightly more too.
  It is more expensive, but I believe I will sell the Norse now...


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





permagrin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm not really sure what ninjikiran was trying to say, but there seems to be something wrong with the cable.  It seems more than just a matter of cable differences.
   
  You should hear the Q-Cable.


----------



## Permagrin

Well for fun I decided to swap in the stock cable on the LCD-2s to see if I could notice a difference since I've been so accustomed to the sound with the ALO cable.

Although on the total package it's probably only a 5-10% difference it is easily audible. Stock cable has a thinner sound and less attack/decay, just like my initial findings I recall. I really did not notice a db difference so I'm happy with my upgrade. Did I overshoot diminishing returns? Highly probable. 

Cheers!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





permagrin said:


> Well for fun I decided to swap in the stock cable on the LCD-2s to see if I could notice a difference since I've been so accustomed to the sound with the ALO cable.
> 
> Although on the total package it's probably only a 5-10% difference it is easily audible. Stock cable has a thinner sound and less attack/decay, just like my initial findings I recall. I really did not notice a db difference so I'm happy with my upgrade. Did I overshoot diminishing returns? Highly probable.
> 
> ...


----------



## NWRain

Does anyone here have aftermarket cables for their LCD-2 that connect to a speaker amp?


----------



## grokit

I do but don't listen to them that way because I find that they don't really scale up with speaker-like power like the HE-6/K1000 does. They do scale up with quality balanced amplification, but a couple of good watts with high current reserves is all you really need.


----------



## HK_sends

Got my single-end adapter for my Black Magic Cable!  Now I am going to go listen.  If I am not back on-line in a few days, then I am either in audio Nirvana or just dead and mummified but still rockin' to the LCD-2s, Schiit Lyr, and Black Magic cable! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Wedge

At least you'd be mummified with a  smile on your face.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Got my single-end adapter for my Black Magic Cable!  Now I am going to go listen.  If I am not back on-line in a few days, then I am either in audio Nirvana or just dead and mummified but still rockin' to the LCD-2s, Schiit Lyr, and Black Magic cable!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



wedge said:


> At least you'd be mummified with a  smile on your face.


 
  And I have to admit, so far, I am smiling BIG! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

...ahh!  Somehow I managed to remove the LCD-2s from my head but the grin isn't going away.  I am extremely impressed with the Q -Audio's Black Majic cable for the Aude'ze.  I have been listening to music and rolling tubes in my Schiit Lyr amp, then letting the experience carry me away.
   
The most impressive physical aspect of the cable is how light and supple it is.  There is no (cable) stiffness whatsoever.  You could quite literally use it as a jump rope or a lasso (if you really wanted to).  When I listen to music, I am reclined and can usually feel the cable laying on my chest.  Not the Black Magic...it's so feather light, I am afraid I will get up and walk away, forgetting that I am still attached to my amp.
   
I was surprised at how small a diameter the woven together cables are...roughly the same diameter as my single Blue Dragon cable.  
   
The Black Magic isn't supposed to be delicate, but it appears that way and makes you just want to be naturally careful with it.  I chose the black cable that has a brown thread running through one of the weaves.  Steve told me that the cable with the brown spots was for the right side, so it's an easy (but subtle) way to indicate which side to connect.
   
The sound...I am still trying to figure out how to describe the sound, other than to say it's the best sounding cable I have ever used (I have tried the new Aude'ze cable, Norse 8-wire cable, Silver and Blue Dragon cables).  The sound is not lacking in bass, mids, or highs...I find it to be very musical, but with a hint of detail that I like.  I only have about 20 hours on the cable but I have to agree with kwkarth, it truly is one of the best cables available for the LCD-2.  Thanks for having excellent service and making an outstanding product, Steve!
   
The above is all IMHO and YMMV (but I doubt by much...)
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Skylab

I agree with all that, HK Sends. The Q Audio cable for LCD-2 is my favorite aftermarket cable. Sounds absolutely excellent, and the best ergonomically of the bunch, too. All of the aftermarket cables are very good, but the Q is the best sounding AND best ergonomically, IMHO. I think highly of the others as well, but my preference is for the Q Audio.


----------



## HK_sends

Plus, it appears to fit right in with the LCD-2's retro/steampunk/industrial look... 




  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thanks for having excellent service and making an outstanding product, Steve!


 

 Thank you for the kind words, HK. You're quite welcome.
   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I agree with all that, HK Sends. The Q Audio cable for LCD-2 is my favorite aftermarket cable. Sounds absolutely excellent, and the best ergonomically of the bunch, too. All of the aftermarket cables are very good, but the Q is the best sounding AND best ergonomically, IMHO. I think highly of the others as well, but my preference is for the Q Audio.


 


  What is a good length for a Q Audio cable for the LCD's.   I'm so new to headphones that I don't know what a good length is.  What lengths do folks use?  Is there a standard length?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



warriorant said:


> What is a good length for a Q Audio cable for the LCD's.   I'm so new to headphones that I don't know what a good length is.  What lengths do folks use?  Is there a standard length?


 
  I got the 2.5 meter (8.2 feet) cable, which is plenty long enough for me.  Anything shorter than...say...six feet might not be long enough to maneuver if you listen any distance away from your amp.
  Of course, if you have a portable setup, you might want a shorter cable so you don't have to wrangle the cable when you move around.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I got the 2.5 meter (8.2 feet) cable, which is plenty long enough for me.  Anything shorter than...say...six feet might not be long enough to maneuver if you listen any distance away from your amp.
> Of course, if you have a portable setup, you might want a shorter cable so you don't have to wrangle the cable when you move around.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 
  Thanks, I plan on reclining into nirvana near the set up.  I wasn't sure if long lengths degrade the signal to the headphones.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

i received my 3m brown q-cable "brown magic"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, in the mail today. I have to back up what ive read in this thread, it really opened up the lcd2s in every way. Great upgrade from ADZ5. Thanks Steve


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> i received my 3m brown q-cable "brown magic"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  What is the link for the cables again?  I can't seem to find where I bookmarked it.  thanks


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



warriorant said:


> What is the link for the cables again?  I can't seem to find where I bookmarked it.  thanks


 
  Just PM Steve Eddy.  He hasn't listed his LCD-2 cables on his site yet.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jronan2

How much is the q audio cable?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:



jronan2 said:


> How much is the q audio cable?


 
   
   New pricing is:

   


 1.0M - $200
 1.5M - $215
 2.0M - $230
 2.5M - $250 
 3.0M - $275 
 3.5M - $300 
 4.0M - $340
 












  I will say if you need an adapter (I got the balanced to single-ended), that's an extra $30.  At his original prices the adapter would have been included, but at this newer lower price, there was no way Steve could afford it.
  I ordered my 2.5 meter cable terminated with a balanced 4-pin XLR connector for the future, so I needed to get the single ended adapter for now.  It is well worth the money.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Bugbok

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Now, the set I made for a customer in golden yellow, those were a bit more to look at.


 
   
  The Q Cables are outstanding, they are both transparent in weight as well as sound.
   
  My experience with purchasing from Steve was outstanding.  He was friendly, professional, and most of all responsive. 
   
  Here are some pictures of the cables he mentioned in golden yellow.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bugbok said:


> The Q Cables are outstanding, they are both transparent in weight as well as sound.
> 
> My experience with purchasing from Steve was outstanding.  He was friendly, professional, and most of all responsive.
> 
> Here are some pictures of the cables he mentioned in golden yellow.


 

 Nice photos.  what is the length of the cable in the bottom photo?   The cable looks pretty flexible too.  My big concern now is the amount of stress the stiffness of a cable puts on the lower area of the LCD's wood opening where it gets connected.


----------



## MHinGA

Well I ordered the Q cables before going on vacation; Steve was a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Nice photos.  what is the length of the cable in the bottom photo?   The cable looks pretty flexible too.  My big concern now is the amount of stress the stiffness of a cable puts on the lower area of the LCD's wood opening where it gets connected.


 
  The cable is extremely flexible with no stiffness whatsoever.  It can practically bend 90 degrees coming out of the connector.  Steve said the wire is designed to be able to take it with no problem.  In other words, there is no stress on the LCD-2s sockets or wood.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## driftingbunnies

Is it just me or do the Q-audio cables look like shoe laces?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


driftingbunnies said:


> Is it just me or do the Q-audio cables look like shoe laces?


 
  Round shoe laces, yes...and just about as flexible.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Bugbok

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice photos.  what is the length of the cable in the bottom photo?   The cable looks pretty flexible too.  My big concern now is the amount of stress the stiffness of a cable puts on the lower area of the LCD's wood opening where it gets connected.


 

 I ordered a 3m (9.8') pair.  I also shared your concerns about the strength and stress around the area where the cables meet the LCD-2.
   
  After lurking on these forums for many months and reading all of the posts, I was sold on the Q Cable's weight.
   
  I can attest that there is no semblance of microphonics, and the cables are very light and flexible.  The LCD-2 is (imho) quite heavy and I wanted a great sounding cable that wouldn't cost me a trip to the chiropractor after an extended listening session.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





driftingbunnies said:


> Is it just me or do the Q-audio cables look like shoe laces?


 

 Actually, "shoelace" is exactly what it says in the description on my invoices. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I first had my braiding done by an old guy down in Texas who made replica cords for antique telephones. When I was trying to describe to him what I was wanting him to make for me (i.e. just a hollow cotton braid), he said "Oh, you just want shoelace?"
   
  He retired and when I started using the company I'm using now, I kept the "shoelace" tradition.
   
  se


----------



## Snips

Lol can someone tell me what's the link to Q-Audio's site? I can't seem to find it no matter how hard I try.


----------



## Wedge

http://www.q-audio.com/
   
  to order the cable you can email Steve Eddy, steve@q-audio.com


----------



## sluker

Thank you Steve.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Thank you Steve.


 

 Hey what amp is that?


----------



## sluker

La Figaro 339
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hey what amp is that?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Thank you Steve.


 
   
  You're quite welcome, sluker.
   
  se


----------



## Permagrin

sluker said:


> Thank you Steve.




Wow! I know I'm obviously a newb to hi-fi but that's the first time I recall seeing an amp with a Faraday cage like that. Nice!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sluker said:


> La Figaro 339


 
  Ah, I didn't know it had a cage like that.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Ah, I didn't know it had a cage like that.


 
  It doubles as a bug zapper! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## daveDerek

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hey what amp is that?


 
  Quote: 





sluker said:


> La Figaro 339


 


  i'm unfamiliar with this unit. is it particularly good? what configuration is it and what tubes are in it? does it pair, or not pair, well with any particular cans? how much is it? (sorry for going off the thread topic, but i am staying with this conversation....)


----------



## KingStyles

What is the lead time for the q-audio cable and can he make the balanced version with the 2 3 pin connectors?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> What is the lead time for the q-audio cable and can he make the balanced version with the 2 3 pin connectors?


 
  It wasn't long at all when I ordered mine (about a week), but with the increased popularity of his cables, it may be longer now.  I believe he can provide multiple termination options to include 2 3-pin connectors.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> What is the lead time for the q-audio cable and can he make the balanced version with the 2 3 pin connectors?


 

 I just got an email from Steve on my order from Saturday.  He says he usually turns things around in a day or two, but his supplier of mini-XLR's mis-placed his order, so he's waiting for parts.  Should be fine by Wednesday or Thursday tho.  If you ordered today you could be breaking them in by the weekend!


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> What is the lead time for the q-audio cable and can he make the balanced version with the 2 3 pin connectors?


 

 Guarantee you he will not do that on his cable.  He hates the whole idea of dual 3-pin.  He might make you an adapter though.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





davederek said:


> i'm unfamiliar with this unit. is it particularly good? what configuration is it and what tubes are in it? does it pair, or not pair, well with any particular cans? how much is it? (sorry for going off the thread topic, but i am staying with this conversation....)


 


  It's very, very, very similar to the Darkvoice 337, which is well documented around these parts.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Guarantee you he will not do that on his cable.  He hates the whole idea of dual 3-pin.  He might make you an adapter though.


 

 As much as it pains me to see two full size XLR's dangling off the end of a cable, we are offering dual 3 pin XLR as a standard termination option.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> As much as it pains me to see two full size XLR's dangling off the end of a cable, we are offering dual 3 pin XLR as a standard termination option.
> se


 
  Traitor


----------



## kwkarth




----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Traitor


 

 *sigh*
   
  I know, I know.
   
  But there are some very nice sounding amps out there that use dual 3 pin XLR and it's not the customer's fault that the standard was foisted on them.
   
  se


----------



## Wedge

Hey now, I like the dual 3 pin XLR terimination.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> I know, I know.
> 
> But there are some very nice sounding amps out there that use dual 3 pin XLR and it's not the customer's fault that the standard was foisted on them.


 
  I usually stick to the dual 3pin because most balanced amps have these. Only a few have the 4 pin. It just makes it easier at meets to have one that will work on most of the amps and also only need to carry the one adapter for 1/4 inputs which I already have.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> As much as it pains me to see two full size XLR's dangling off the end of a cable, we are offering dual 3 pin XLR as a standard termination option.
> 
> se


 

 Are you kidding me?  After all those many hours of preaching how you would never in your life include those "goat testicles" (as you put it) on your product and thought it was the worst headphone connection idea ever thought of?  You spineless little monkey!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For the record, I think you made the right choice obviously (which you already know, as I felt you were limiting your market share by excluding the goat testicles).


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





wedge said:


> Hey now, I like the dual 3 pin XLR terimination.


 

 PERVERT! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Wedge

I want those leathers for the Y!...


----------



## sluker

Check out this thread
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/502306/dark-voice-339
  
  Quote: 





davederek said:


> i'm unfamiliar with this unit. is it particularly good? what configuration is it and what tubes are in it? does it pair, or not pair, well with any particular cans? how much is it? (sorry for going off the thread topic, but i am staying with this conversation....)


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I want those leathers for the Y!...


 

 With or without spikes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  se


----------



## tonyjin

Ordered a 2.0M Black Magic Q-Audio cable from Steve. Very pleasant transaction and I'm looking forward to getting the cables!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





tonyjin said:


> Ordered a 2.0M Black Magic Q-Audio cable from Steve. Very pleasant transaction and I'm looking forward to getting the cables!


 
  With or without spikes?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> With or without spikes?


 

 Neither.
   
  He wants... _rhinestones_.
   
  Ya get that? _Rhinestones_.
   
  It's a DJ thing or something. I dunno.
   
  Kids these days.
   




   
  se


----------



## Permagrin

steve eddy said:


> Neither.
> 
> He wants... _rhinestones_.
> 
> ...




I'm so glad I grew up right after that phase had died out. If only it didn't remind me of that awful song though!

Wait, are you saying they're back?!? Time to go back to under my rock...


----------



## brasewel

Ordered a 4 conductor Norse Audio 3 pin balanced cable. Shipped it within a day and I should have it by Saturday


----------



## Permagrin

^^ Upgrading from stock? I think you'll be pleased with the sound.


----------



## brasewel

Yes from stock. I did hear someone's else pair with the 8 conductor and I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in quality from stock. Unfortunately they're not selling the 8 conductor at the moment.


----------



## KingStyles

I was looking at the alo cable that uses both the copper and the silver wire on the same cable. I was thinking about it later and I am wondering from all you cable experts if mixing wire like that could cause any sort of distortion or smearing. The two types of wires have a different inductance. Wouldnt there be some sort of time shift between the two types of wire in the time it reaches the driver? I am not trying to start a cable war or anything like that. It is just an expensive cable (almost 900) configured the way I want and am just trying to sort out my thoughts on what cable to buy in the future and I am wondering if this could be a problem on a very revealing system?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> I was looking at the alo cable that uses both the copper and the silver wire on the same cable. I was thinking about it later and I am wondering from all you cable experts if mixing wire like that could cause any sort of distortion or smearing. The two types of wires have a different inductance. Wouldnt there be some sort of time shift between the two types of wire in the time it reaches the driver? I am not trying to start a cable war or anything like that. It is just an expensive cable (almost 900) configured the way I want and am just trying to sort out my thoughts on what cable to buy in the future and I am wondering if this could be a problem on a very revealing system?


 
  Just keep in mind that in a multiple conductor type like the copper/silver ALO, the two different conductors are in series so the signal has to travel through both conductors for a round trip.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Ordered a 4 conductor Norse Audio 3 pin balanced cable. Shipped it within a day and I should have it by Saturday


 


  Wow!  You're really spending up a storm these days.  Big tax refund?
   
  Anyway, congratulations.  You'll have a world-class system by the time you're done (and you're almost there...)
   
  I didn't hear much difference between the 4-conductor vs. the 8-conductor.  BTW, I ordered one of Steve Eddy's "Q" cables.  Maybe we'lll catch up at another meet & compare cables. 
   
  Best,
   
  Frank


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


deadears said:


> Maybe we'lll catch up at another meet & compare cables.


 

 Are you planning to measure cables and see whose is longer? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry, couldn't help myself.  Carry on.


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





deadears said:


> Wow!  You're really spending up a storm these days.  Big tax refund?
> 
> Anyway, congratulations.  You'll have a world-class system by the time you're done (and you're almost there...)
> 
> ...


 

 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...no the whole upgrade to the LCDs and cable cost me around $400 at best. Definitely would like to compare cables.
  BTW my LCDs came in today and I'm just floored by their SQ. My LAs seemed like crap compared to this. I've got to listen to them for about 2 hours now and I can quickly pick all the flaws in my previous Denons.


----------



## Bobcow

Ordered one of Steve Eddy's cables for my LCD-2 after recommendations here. Hopefully it's as great in my system as everyone else's. Now just gotta wait for it to get all the way to Australia


----------



## Canadian411

Do you guys have any bad experience ordering stuff from ALO Audio ?
   
  It's been couple of days I placed an order and no emails what so ever... 
   
  How's Moon Audio experience if anyone ordered from them.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Have you checked your spam folder? Sometimes the automated replies from online shopping carts will trigger the twitchier spam filters. I had to have my host dial mine back a bit recently because it was catching too much stuff that should have gone through.
   
  se


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Have you checked your spam folder? Sometimes the automated replies from online shopping carts will trigger the twitchier spam filters. I had to have my host dial mine back a bit recently because it was catching too much stuff that should have gone through.
> 
> se


 


  Yape, I checked all it says "processed", and I went to their website and looks like the order is still in pending status.
   
  Maybe I should give them a call.  Thanks Steve.


----------



## grokit

ALO has had some issues with email response, there seems to be a bit of a bottleneck there sometimes. I would try giving them a call at the 32 ohm storefront, they really do provide excellent customer service just hit or miss on the emails.
   
  Edit: my experience with Drew at Moon was also excellent, he was great with email response as well.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> Do you guys have any bad experience ordering stuff from ALO Audio ?
> 
> It's been couple of days I placed an order and no emails what so ever...
> 
> How's Moon Audio experience if anyone ordered from them.


 

  
  Drew at Moon Audio is quite responsive, he usually responds under 12 hours accounting time zone difference.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> Drew at Moon Audio is quite responsive, he usually responds under 12 hours accounting time zone difference.


 

 Thanks for the info, maybe I should just cancel my orders from ALO Audio and go with the Moon Audio. 
   
  Will call ALO audio and see how responsive they are, will update you guys.
   
  Thanks a bunch !


----------



## brasewel

I thought Trevor at Norse Audio was fantastic. He was quick to respond to my emails and shipped the cable the next day.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> I thought Trevor at Norse Audio was fantastic. He was quick to respond to my emails and shipped the cable the next day.


 

 Is it http://www.norseaudio.com/ ? looks like down for a renovation


----------



## brasewel

You need to email him. Their website is not fully operational as yet. If you want I will pm you some of the links he sent me in regard to his cable offerings.


----------



## Frankie K

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> Do you guys have any bad experience ordering stuff from ALO Audio ?
> 
> It's been couple of days I placed an order and no emails what so ever...
> 
> ...


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Are you planning to measure cables and see whose is longer?
> 
> ...


 

 Have you seen the videos at Audio Advisor where their model ("Mary") demonstrates their cables?  She can handle my cables *anytime*!!


----------



## hardtarget666

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> I thought Trevor at Norse Audio was fantastic. He was quick to respond to my emails and shipped the cable the next day.


 


  X2.
   
  Trevor was super quick to respond to my queries. I was pleasantly surprised by the packaging and care that had gone into making the cable which by the way looks like its made for LCD-2. Definately worth the asking price.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


deadears said:


> Have you seen the videos at Audio Advisor where their model ("Mary") demonstrates their cables?  She can handle my cables *anytime*!!


 

 Mmm, Mary.


----------



## Wedge

I personally felt that my favorite cable is the Q-Audio cable.  I own 4 conductor, 8 conductor, and Silver Dragon, as well.  For those folks who find that the LCD-2 are too dark, I would say use the Silver Dragon, it might make you change your mind.  I never really came to any solid conclusions on the Norse cables, as I pretty much only use my stock cables for a day, and their wasn't a whole wow this really sounds very different, as their was with the Silver Dragon.  I did wind up always using the Norse cables, until I got the Q-Audio cable which I think gave me what I ultimately wanted out of a cable, both from an auditory and ergonomic point of view.  I think the Q-Audio cable has a slight but noticeable improvement in sound of bass and midrange.  I have ultimately decided that I can do without OCC silver headphone cable.  I like the sound very much of the copper litz wire, but in all actuality what I am even more impressed with is the workmanship of the Q-Audio cables.  I have yet to see another "small company" cable makers work that looked as good as Steve Eddy's work, especially with a type of wire as challenging to work with as Litz wire.


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





deadears said:


> Have you seen the videos at Audio Advisor where their model ("Mary") demonstrates their cables?  She can handle my cables *anytime*!!


 

 Haha. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  My cables came in today and I loved the packaging. Music has come to life, mids are little more forward, bass has a little more attack and speed. I'm a very satisfied customer so far.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


brasewel said:


> Haha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Trevor does excellent work and his packaging can't be beat.  Honestly, I think all of the custom "cable guys" (and gals) try their best to provide excellent products to a highly "particular in what we like" group (us).
  Each has their own style and signature in their cables.  I think all of them deserve some gratitude for the hard work they do in trying to meet the demands of their customers.  ...and we are a demanding lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I will never say that one cable is "better" than another; I will only say that it gives me the sound signature I most desire over the other options, readily admitting that others may have different preferences.
   
  KUDOS Guys!!  Thanks to all of you for your hard work! 
  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Permagrin

Well put HK!

I've bought quite a few products from ALO and they have been more than helpful when I needed to contact them. Email I recall is the best way to get in touch with them (Ken@ALOAudio.com).

Cheers!


----------



## Canadian411

permagrin said:


> Well put HK!
> 
> I've bought quite a few products from ALO and they have been more than helpful when I needed to contact them. Email I recall is the best way to get in touch with them (Ken@ALOAudio.com).
> 
> Cheers!





Finally I see my order is being "completed" and shipped by fedex. I still didn't get any reply from ALO Audio but auto generated email.
Now my question is the after service, will let you guys know..

And thanks for sharing your experience.

Cheers,


----------



## Canadian411

DOUBLE HELIX Macromolecule Kumihimo braid 8-wire LCD2 Cables ?

Any good ?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> DOUBLE HELIX Macromolecule Kumihimo braid 8-wire LCD2 Cables ?
> 
> Any good ?


 
  They've got to be self powered to have a name like that!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> DOUBLE HELIX Macromolecule Kumihimo braid 8-wire LCD2 Cables ?
> 
> Any good ?


 

 I've read great things about their high-end cables but have not tried one. I can say that I am very satisfied with their more affordable Molecule cables, I own four of them (three balanced).


----------



## Equus

Got my Q-Audio cable in the mail today.  Thanks Steve!  Have it burning in right now, but initial impressions are good.  They're also even lighter than I imagined.  I was originally was surprised that the postman put the envelope package in my tiny mailbox, but after opening the envelop and seeing how small and light the form factor is, I'm not so surprised.  Still surprised by the cable being as small and light and sounding as good as it does.


----------



## jronan2

How long of a cable do you guys get? Q audio goes by meters right?


----------



## Wedge

I got mine in 2.5M.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> Got my Q-Audio cable in the mail today.  Thanks Steve!  Have it burning in right now, but initial impressions are good.  They're also even lighter than I imagined.  I was originally was surprised that the postman put the envelope package in my tiny mailbox, but after opening the envelop and seeing how small and light the form factor is, I'm not so surprised.  Still surprised by the cable being as small and light and sounding as good as it does.


 
  Let me know how it is. It is at the top of my list.The alo cable in second due to just price at the moment.


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> How long of a cable do you guys get? Q audio goes by meters right?


 

 I got 2.5m myself as well.  Allows me to wander around a little but not too much to get in the way.

  
  Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Let me know how it is. It is at the top of my list.The alo cable in second due to just price at the moment.


 


  Will do.  So far so good.  Form what little I've heard, it's got a nice round sound and helps keep manage the treble from having too much grain, even on some of my recordings that have a tendency to be hot in the treble.  We'll see how things go as the cord settles and if that makes much of a difference.  Bass and mids are really quite nice.


----------



## jronan2

How much was the 2.5meter one?


----------



## Bobcow

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> How much was the 2.5meter one?


 


  $250 for 2.5m. I got the 3m for $275. It's great how cheap he has priced these compared to some of the competitors.


----------



## jronan2

Cool..now all I need are the LCD 2's lol.


----------



## brasewel

How do the Q Audio cables compare to Norse Audio? I got my 6 ft 3 pin balanced for $137 shipped.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> They've got to be self powered to have a name like that!


 

  true


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> true


 
  Yeah, either that, or they're made of lamb's wool.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Yeah, either that, or they're made of lamb's wool.


 

 That would be unbaaahhhhrable.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> That would be unbaaahhhhrable.


 
  baaaa, humbug...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> baaaa, humbug...


 

 I read your response with a sheepish expression on my face.
   
  Okay, sorry, I'm done.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I read your response with a sheepish expression on my face.
> 
> Okay, sorry, I'm done.


 
  Assuming you aren't trying to fleece me with your capitulation, I will concede the victory to you.


----------



## yossi126

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> How do the Q Audio cables compare to Norse Audio? I got my 6 ft 3 pin balanced for $137 shipped.


 

 x2
  Would like to know that too.


----------



## DeadEars

I just received my Q Audio cables in the mail.  So far, I'm very pleased.  They are a delight to wear as I'm working at the computer.  No more microphonics as the cable brushes my clothing (this was on the stock cables).
   
  I'm not much of a cables believer, but I have to say these impress me more than the Norse 4-conductor cables I heard on my system 2 weeks ago.  The Norse were also better than the stock cables, especially in the bass, and a more open soundstage.  The Q-audio cables duplicate this, but also seem to add a bit more harmonic roundness to the music.  But take this with a huge grain of salt, since I am not comparing them side-by-side.  I only heard the Norse for about 30 minutes, on a variety of sources in addition to my own rig.  My impression is that the Q-audio cables have a bit smoother top end.  I have HF hearing damage in my left ear, so I can't talk about stereo imaging, but the Yo-yo Ma Baroque recording I'm listening to now sounds incredibly rich & present.
   
  My take is that the Q-audio cables are a bit of a bargain, and well-worth the purchase.  I owe special thanks to Kevin (kwkarth) for encouraging me to try these.  And Steve Eddy was a pleasure to deal with, gave me great communication during the process.
   
  Highly recommended!
   
  Frank


----------



## brasewel

Thanks Frank.
  I'm not much of a cable believer myself and don't want to spend more than I need to on headphone cables. However, the move to aftermarket cables on the LCDs did noticeably improve the SQ which surprised me. It seems the Norse Audio cables are pretty good at the price they sell for.


----------



## DeadEars

Yes, it was experiencing the Norse cables that started the upgrade bug for me.  They were clearly better (which annoyed me, since they shouldn't be).  I think you made a good choice.  You're running balanced too, aren't you?  You have no reason or incentive to invest any more in cables!  Unless, of course, you start getting "cable" envy...  OK.  No RATIONAL incentive to invest.
   
  best,
   
  Frank


----------



## Skylab

My feeling is the same. I like the Norse cable quite a bit - better than the stock cable in terms of sonics and ergonomics, and looks great too. Also nice and affordable. But the Q-Audio cable is even better ergonomically in that it is supremely flexible and light, and it also has a level of transparency that is an improve,net on the Norse, and does not at all come with added brightness - it is real transparency.


----------



## WarriorAnt

So you folks who are not much of a cable believer are you cable believers now?


----------



## brasewel

Yes I'm running them balanced. I'm all set with cables and headphones in general. I just hope I don't have to upgrade my amp anytime soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





deadears said:


> Yes, it was experiencing the Norse cables that started the upgrade bug for me.  They were clearly better (which annoyed me, since they shouldn't be).  I think you made a good choice.  You're running balanced too, aren't you?  You have no reason or incentive to invest any more in cables!  Unless, of course, you start getting "cable" envy...  OK.  No RATIONAL incentive to invest.
> 
> best,
> 
> Frank


 


  I'm still not much of a cable believer. This is probably the only instance where a cable has made such a big difference in SQ to me.


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So you folks who are not much of a cable believer are you cable believers now?


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So you folks who are not much of a cable believer are you cable believers now?


 

 I'll give you a big, fat "Maybe."  As with everything else in this hobby, it seems that "everything matters." 
   
  But frankly I really do not believe in wire differences (e.g. silver vs. copper).  I think things like cable geometry, choice of dilectic, and especially the quality and type of connectors make more difference.  I still do not believe in power cables, once they've been appropriately sized and configured for the load.
   
  I suppose that from an engineering standpoint, everything comes down to resistance, impedence and reactance.  I make a lot of my own cables, interconnects and headphone cables.  Rarely do I hear much difference between them, despite a lot of experimentation.  Whenever I DO hear a difference, I can usually track it down to a difference in capacitance or resistance in the cable.  There is also a skill factor.  For instance, the Litz wires used in the Q-cable are individually thinner than a human hair, and individually insulated.  To make high-quality terminations requires a solder pot and a lot of manual dexterity.  Definitely worth paying someone else to do it!
   
  Just my $.02
   
  Frank


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Assuming you aren't trying to fleece me with your capitulation, I will concede the victory to you.


----------



## DeadEars

Hey Kevin, he's upped his game.  You'll just have to "Ram" something else past us...


----------



## Equus

Bwahahaha...that's so cute and so wrong at the same time.
   
  Going back a touch to the question about cables making a difference, that seems to be a touchy and divisive subject.  I've heard arguments on both sides, and for my ears they do make a difference.  Whether the difference is shielding or connectors or the solder being better, who knows?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





deadears said:


> Hey Kevin, he's upped his game.  You'll just have to "Ram" something else past us...


 
  Yeah, I was working on horning in with the ram thing...  but that photo is great..  A pug in sheep's clothing.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





equus said:


> Bwahahaha...that's so cute and so wrong at the same time.
> 
> Going back a touch to the question about cables making a difference, that seems to be a touchy and divisive subject.  I've heard arguments on both sides, and for my ears they do make a difference.  Whether the difference is shielding or connectors or the solder being better, who knows?


 


  Yeah, as much as I don't like it because I can't explain it or measure it, I still hear it.  Drives me nuts!


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





equus said:


> Bwahahaha...that's so cute and so wrong at the same time.
> 
> Going back a touch to the question about cables making a difference, that seems to be a touchy and divisive subject.  I've heard arguments on both sides, and for my ears they do make a difference.  Whether the difference is shielding or connectors or the solder being better, who knows?


 


  I think it makes a difference but it's much, much less obvious compared to getting a better source or amplifier in that order. That being said, I love my Silver Dragon v3. I got that cable specifically to brighten up the sound and make the LCD2 airier and so far the cable seems to fulfill that objectives.


----------



## Equus

Pretty much agreed.  The source and amp are going to be more easily heard, and the entire rig will determine what kind of difference (if any) the minor tweak have or don't have.  I think it's definitely one of those "last 5%" things once the rest of the chain is more nailed down.  Since, in my experience, that's where you start getting vastly diminishing (or absolutely no) returns, whether that's worth it to someone is completely a personal thing.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I read your response with a sheepish expression on my face.
> 
> Okay, sorry, I'm done.


 


  Hahaha.


----------



## Canadian411

I am confused....
   
  I bought Audeze LCD2 SR71b Cu 22awg ALO audio balanced headphone cable from ALO Audio.
  And I hear no differences between this cable and the stock cable.
   
  I also cannot tell the differences with or without SR-71b amp on any music. (mostly jazz, classic, dance and female vocal)
   
  That leads me thinking that, 
   
  1. I do not have gifted ears like all of you
  2. My setup is wrong
  3. Purchased the wrong cables ?
  4. Or maybe not enough burn in with my lcd2 ? (it has only 20 hours so far)


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> I am confused....
> 
> I bought Audeze LCD2 SR71b Cu 22awg ALO audio balanced headphone cable from ALO Audio.
> And I hear no differences between this cable and the stock cable.
> ...


 

 Very surprising. You're probably the only person I know who hasn't been able to differentiate the SQ between stock and aftermarket. I would suggest you continue listening with the stock and switch after 50-80 hours of burn in.


----------



## KingStyles

Sometimes people have too high of expectations on what a night and day difference is. Most changes are small and could be easily missed by someone just starting into this adventures land of headfi. If you dont hear a difference be happy because you will have saved yourself probably a lot of money in the long run.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Sometimes people have too high of expectations on what a night and day difference is. Most changes are small and could be easily missed by someone just starting into this adventures land of headfi. If you dont hear a difference be happy because you will have saved yourself probably a lot of money in the long run.


 


  Ya I don't hear much difference with or without headphone amp, cable upgrades, etc.
  I just want somebody to guide me what should I expect with headphone amp and balanced cable ? like better bass ? more trebles ? etc ?
   
  Like you said I am really newbie here, help me...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





brasewel said:


> Very surprising. You're probably the only person I know who hasn't been able to differentiate the SQ between stock and aftermarket. I would suggest you continue listening with the stock and switch after 50-80 hours of burn in.


 

 That's a good idea to go for some length of time, but I usually find that when I listen to the upgraded cable for a long period and then switch back to stock is when I notice the difference the most. You never know what you really have until it's gone type of thing.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Sometimes people have too high of expectations on what a night and day difference is. Most changes are small and could be easily missed by someone just starting into this adventures land of headfi. If you dont hear a difference be happy because you will have saved yourself probably a lot of money in the long run.


 

 When I first started out in the world of audiophile nervosa I could not discern any type of changes but as my ability to perceive differences became practiced with time I became aware of cable changes.  Wether or not they are small or a large change in reality I do not know. But I do know that as one practices the art of audio perception what could perhaps be small changes become larger and easier to perceive.  A blessing and a curse? I do not know that either but I do know that most people treat their hearing like a secondary sense and don't practice the art of perception.  Those of use driven to high end gear and music do not treat this sense as a secondary sense and so through time we begin to perceive changes with more ease and with a quicker response.  After some time practicing the art of audio perception the difference to some can seem like night and day.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> Ya I don't hear much difference with or without headphone amp, cable upgrades, etc.
> I just want somebody to guide me what should I expect with headphone amp and balanced cable ? like better bass ? more trebles ? etc ?
> 
> Like you said I am really newbie here, help me...


 

 Let's back up a bit here...
  What sort of music do you listen to?  What bitrate?  Lossless or no?


----------



## n3rdling

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> I am confused....
> 
> I bought Audeze LCD2 SR71b Cu 22awg ALO audio balanced headphone cable from ALO Audio.
> And I hear no differences between this cable and the stock cable.
> ...


 

 You're far from alone.  Don't be afraid to believe the differences simply don't exist.  I don't want to pollute this thread, so I'll just recommend you check out the sound science subforum here and read a few threads to see many experiences similar to your own.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Let's back up a bit here...
> What sort of music do you listen to?  What bitrate?  Lossless or no?


 

  
  I tried from Classic, Jazz, rock, pop, alternative, r&b, dance, trance and vocals with various format like alac/flac and standard mp3.
  Still I cannot hear the differences.
   
  Also tried to adjust the volume, amp gains, balanced to non balanced cables, I switch back and forth with the stock cables,, they all sound the same to me.
   
  Maybe because my headphone, amp, cables are still all brand new ? it has like less than 15 hours so far.


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





n3rdling said:


> You're far from alone.  Don't be afraid to believe the differences simply don't exist.  I don't want to pollute this thread, so I'll just recommend you check out the sound science subforum here and read a few threads to see many experiences similar to your own.


 


  This is encouraging that I am not alone


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's a good idea to go for some length of time, but I usually find that when I listen to the upgraded cable for a long period and then switch back to stock is when I notice the difference the most. You never know what you really have until it's gone type of thing.


 

 Agreed. I just switched back to stock yesterday after a week of using my upgraded cables and could tell the difference.


----------



## D_4_Dog

people are generally more sensitive to drop in SQ compared to increase in SQ so it's not surprising that going back to stock cable will emphasize the improvements


----------



## Permagrin

grokit said:


> That's a good idea to go for some length of time, but I usually find that when I listen to the upgraded cable for a long period and then switch back to stock is when I notice the difference the most. You never know what you really have until it's gone type of thing.




Exactly. Same phenomenon applies to ridiculously large TVs.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> This is encouraging that I am not alone


 

 I think you just need to practice the art of audio perception for a while.  Get used to hearing a system one way for a long period of time.  Get to know it inside and out. Then start making changes.  Guaranteed then you'll start to notice differences.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I think you just need to practice the art of audio perception for a while.  Get used to hearing a system one way for a long period of time.  Get to know it inside and out. Then start making changes.  Guaranteed then you'll start to notice differences.


 
   
  This is good advice. One needs to train their hearing to detect and remember subtleties.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





permagrin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I never met a TV screen that was large enough!


----------



## Canadian411

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I think you just need to practice the art of audio perception for a while.  Get used to hearing a system one way for a long period of time.  Get to know it inside and out. Then start making changes.  Guaranteed then you'll start to notice differences.


 

 One day I will be an audiophile.  yeah !.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Quote: 





canadian411 said:


> I am confused....
> 
> I bought Audeze LCD2 SR71b Cu 22awg ALO audio balanced headphone cable from ALO Audio.
> And I hear no differences between this cable and the stock cable.
> ...


 



 5. despite the personal experiences of some people hearing a cable change sound, that change is subjective to that person and their mind. It is not objective to the actual cable and how it is made.
   
  You are new to the forum and have yet to be affected by the general view of cables. So you have heard the actual effect of the cable (which is nill) and have not listened to the cable whilst influenced by expectation and placebo.
   
  Now you get to make a choice, cables make no difference and I will enjoy the sound as it is and save money. Or I believe cables do make a difference and will enjoy my music more with a new cable having spent X amount of money.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





prog rock man said:


> 5. despite the personal experiences of some people hearing a cable change sound, that change is subjective to that person and their mind. It is not objective to the actual cable and how it is made.
> 
> You are new to the forum and have yet to be affected by the general view of cables. So you have heard the actual effect of the cable (which is nill) and have not listened to the cable whilst influenced by expectation and placebo.
> 
> Now you get to make a choice, cables make no difference and I will enjoy the sound as it is and save money. Or I believe cables do make a difference and will enjoy my music more with a new cable having spent X amount of money.


 
  6.   And lastly, the option of deciding there are other factors for which you find an after market cable desirable over the stock offering.  (flexibility, durability, looks, etc.)


----------



## Permagrin

prog rock man said:


> 5. despite the personal experiences of some people hearing a cable change sound, that change is subjective to that person and their mind. It is not objective to the actual cable and how it is made.
> 
> You are new to the forum and have yet to be affected by the general view of cables. So you have heard the actual effect of the cable (which is nill) and have not listened to the cable whilst influenced by expectation and placebo.
> 
> Now you get to make a choice, cables make no difference and I will enjoy the sound as it is and save money. Or I believe cables do make a difference and will enjoy my music more with a new cable having spent X amount of money.




:rolleyes:

Do you have an LCD-2 with a stock and aftermarket cable and have tested them appropriately? No? Then you're _possibly_ giving misinformation. "It's always black and white" is bound to be wrong once.


----------



## Prog Rock Man

Canadian411 is confused as to why he does not hear something that you guys do. I have given an answer as to why that is the case.
   
  The other answers are to try switching back to the stock cable after a while and to train your listening.
   
  I don't understand the relevance of flexibilty, durability etc to the orginal question. The other answers are also 'possibly giving misinformation'. The world is full of gray and it will be interesting to hear back from Canadian411 once he has had time to think on and act on the varous answers to his question.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





permagrin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Hey, no fair discussing cables in the cable thread...  Gee, maybe that didn't come across the way I intended...
  Seriously folks, this thread is not the place to debate the general concept of whether or not cables contribute their own sound character to something.  This is the thread in which to discuss which cable you've chosen and what subjectively you like or dislike about it.  General purpose cable vs. coat hanger discussion is verboten herein.


----------



## Permagrin

edit: never mind


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Hey, no fair discussing cables in the cable thread...  Gee, maybe that didn't come across the way I intended...
> Seriously folks, this thread is not the place to debate the general concept of whether or not cables contribute their own sound character to something.  This is the thread in which to discuss which cable you've chosen and what subjectively you like or dislike about it.  General purpose cable vs. coat hanger discussion is verboten herein.


 
  Thanks for stepping in Kwkarth.   The argument gets so tiring.


----------



## gopack87

Just received my Q-Audio cable this morning (insanely fast shipping) and this has to be the lightest, most comfortable cable I've ever seen.  I'm not really a cable believer (mainly got the cable for listening comfort) but if there are any improvements sonically, I'll find out shortly


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





gopack87 said:


> (insanely fast shipping)


 

 I looooove Priority Mail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  From California to Wisconsin (and other destinations back east) in two days, and far less expensive than UPS Second Day Air.
   
  se


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> I looooove Priority Mail.


 
  Agreed. it is the only way I like to ship and it is pretty cheap too.


----------



## Bobcow

I wish shipping to Australia was that quick, most stuff takes around 2 weeks to reach here when I buy stuff overseas. I'm quite jealous of all you people living in the US. Can't wait for my Q-Audio cable to arrive.


----------



## MHinGA

So after being out of town on vacation, Steve sent me my Q-Audio cables and they arrived yesterday. I'm not sure how or whether the whole "burn in" concept applies to cables like these, but I couldn't resist doing some listening last night and this morning.
   
  Count me happily among the Kool-Aid drinkers. First, the ergonomics are insane. While the weight and clamping factor of the LCD-2 have not bothered me in the least, one thing that I am sensitive to is dragging around a cable... simply not a factor for the Qs. Virtually no weight and as others have mentioned they really are as flexible as shoelaces. Zero microphonics. Since I am using my LCD-2 for both desktop and some "portable" use (i.e. when traveling and getting to my destination; not while en route), Steve made me a Grado-style flexible mini adaptor to match my main cable and I am also very pleased with that. As for the sound I don't really speak audiophile, but I have found that my ears are very sensitive to changes that others might find to be minor. With the Qs my initial impression is that I am hearing a distinct improvement in what I would call depth in the bass and lower midrange, together with a more subtle improvement in clarity throughout the spectrum over the stock cables. These improvements are very significant to me overall, and that's what counts.
   
  Great job, Steve!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mhinga said:


> So after being out of town on vacation, Steve sent me my Q-Audio cables and they arrived yesterday. I'm not sure how or whether the whole "burn in" concept applies to cables like these, but I couldn't resist doing some listening last night and this morning.
> 
> Count me happily among the Kool-Aid drinkers. First, the ergonomics are insane. While the weight and clamping factor of the LCD-2 have not bothered me in the least, one thing that I am sensitive to is dragging around a cable... simply not a factor for the Qs. Virtually no weight and as others have mentioned they really are as flexible as shoelaces. Zero microphonics. Since I am using my LCD-2 for both desktop and some "portable" use (i.e. when traveling and getting to my destination; not while en route), Steve made me a Grado-style flexible mini adaptor to match my main cable and I am also very pleased with that. As for the sound I don't really speak audiophile, but I have found that my ears are very sensitive to changes that others might find to be minor. With the Qs my initial impression is that I am hearing a distinct improvement in what I would call depth in the bass and lower midrange, together with a more subtle improvement in clarity throughout the spectrum over the stock cables. These improvements are very significant to me overall, and that's what counts.
> 
> Great job, Steve!


 
  What length did you get?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MHinGA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *SNIP*
> Count me happily among the Kool-Aid drinkers. First, the ergonomics are insane. While the weight and clamping factor of the LCD-2 have not bothered me in the least, one thing that I am sensitive to is dragging around a cable... simply not a factor for the Qs. Virtually no weight and as others have mentioned they really are as flexible as shoelaces. Zero microphonics. Since I am using my LCD-2 for both desktop and some "portable" use (i.e. when traveling and getting to my destination; not while en route), Steve made me a Grado-style flexible mini adaptor to match my main cable and I am also very pleased with that. As for the sound I don't really speak audiophile, but I have found that my ears are very sensitive to changes that others might find to be minor. With the Qs my initial impression is that I am hearing a distinct improvement in what I would call depth in the bass and lower midrange, together with a more subtle improvement in clarity throughout the spectrum over the stock cables. These improvements are very significant to me overall, and that's what counts.
> ...


 
  Well put!
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

Thanks.


----------



## MrQ

How did the cat feel about being a cable model?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mrq said:


> How did the cat feel about being a cable model?


 

 Hehehe.
   
  Actually I rather like that last shot, the way he's got the cable laid out like that.
   
  se


----------



## MHinGA

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What length did you get?


 

 My setup puts my listening chair right next to the rack, so I only needed 1.5m. I actually think the ergonomics might convince me to get a longer cable in the future for more flexibility. The mini adaptor cable is about a foot long.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MHinGA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The mini adaptor cable is about a foot long.


 

 Just a bit of informed advise to prevent you from going off half cocked (actually more like a third) with the result being grievous embarrassment: Don't go whipping that thing out to try and impress the babes when HK_sends is around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## MHinGA

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Just a bit of informed advise to prevent you from going off half cocked (actually more like a third) with the result being grievous embarrassment: Don't go whipping that thing out to try and impress the babes when HK_sends is around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  For the babes I would use my maxi-adap... oh, hi honey-- er, nothing just answering some email, ahem.


----------



## sluker

Steve,
  I think for an add you need to lace up an pair of sneakers with one of your cables. Dual purpose. 
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Hehehe.
> 
> Actually I rather like that last shot, the way he's got the cable laid out like that.
> 
> se


----------



## HK_sends

Yeah!  And a jumprope...and tow cables!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





sluker said:


> Steve,
> I think for an add you need to lace up an pair of sneakers with one of your cables. Dual purpose.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sluker* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I think for an add you need to lace up an pair of sneakers with one of your cables. Dual purpose.


 
   
  Hehehe. Yeah, though it would probably come across as a bit of a rip-off of the Crystal Cable ads.
   
  se


----------



## Snips

Finally ordered  my q-audio cable.  I can't wait I can't wait I can't wait I can't wait I can't wait I can't wait!


----------



## castlevania32

Pre-Scriptum : can a moderator delete my previous post please, i think the mini-review didn't appeared and i can't manage to edit it :/
   
   
  Some images of the norse cables, i guess i can just post them here, making it more visible for people instead of the email way trevor uses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Splitter choices :

   
  4-conductor adjustable :



   
  8-conductor :
   


   
   
  So, what i ordered is a 10 ft. Norse 4-conductor nrs-up-occ LCD-2 headphone cable (adjustable breakout, Caribbean Rosewood, SE 1/4").

 How about the sound ? First i'm not really a cable believer and i was not awaiting a change SQ wise. I did not tested it methodically so i'll just give my impressions take it for what it's worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 When i first plugged it seemed the sound was darker and i was disapointed, but whatever i kept burning it (not a cable burn-in believer too  ). Weeks passed and i didn't bother about how it sounded, the huge ergonomic improvement alone was the principal concern. Out of curiosity i decided to go back to the stock ADZ5 to see if it was brighter. The result was that the stock is not brighter, and amazingly i perceived less details with it.

 I did not A/B the two extensively as quite frankly i don't care that much, but it seems to my superficial observations that the norse is indeed superior SQ wise...


----------



## brasewel

Just note that the 8-conductor version is not available (atleast that's what Trevor told me)


----------



## Frankie K

Quote: 





castlevania32 said:


> Pre-Scriptum : can a moderator delete my previous post please, i think the mini-review didn't appeared and i can't manage to edit it :/
> Some images of the norse cables, i guess i can just post them here, making it more visible for people instead of the email way trevor uses
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sound's like You truly like these cable's and that's great new's, are they heavy like some have said of the chain mail cable's by ALO or do they feel just right.


----------



## tonyjin

Got my Q-Audio Black Magic cable from Steve. Very very light and flexible - can't really comment on the sound quality, don't think I'm skilled enough to notice too many differences, but it's definitely made the LCD-2's lighter and more comfortable to wear, which is awesome in my book.


----------



## KingStyles

Well, just ordered my lcd2 and my q cable today. I am sure the cable will make a difference, the question will be will I like the lcd2. Time will tell.


----------



## castlevania32

@Frankie K : maybe Skylab can answer you about that question, i don't remember if it's him who had both the alo chain mail and the norse 8-conductor


----------



## Skylab

I have the 4-conductor Norse, not the 8 conductor.  That was much, much lighter than the ALO I had, but I think ALO has a lighter cable now too.  Nothing beats the Q-Audio for lightness - it's not even close.  But the 4-conductor Norse is very good ergonomically, and I have no issue with its weight or stiffness.


----------



## Frankie K

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have the 4-conductor Norse, not the 8 conductor.  That was much, much lighter than the ALO I had, but I think ALO has a lighter cable now too.  Nothing beats the Q-Audio for lightness - it's not even close.  But the 4-conductor Norse is very good ergonomically, and I have no issue with its weight or stiffness.


 

 Which cable is more to Your liking overall?


----------



## Skylab

Ergonomically, I would rank the 4 cables as such:
   
  1. Q-Audio
  2. Norse 4-conductor/Moon Audio Silver Dragon (equal)
  3. ALO Audio Chain Mail
   
  Sonically, I would rank them:
   
  1. Q-Audio
  2. ALO Audio Chain Mail
  3. Moon Audio Silver Dragon/Norse 4-Conductor (*different*, but relatively equal)
   
  BUT:  I would STRONGLY caution that sonically I felt ALL of them were very good, and any given listener will have different preferences, especially since the differences are so slight.
   
  What makes the Q-Audio a no-brainer for me is that it's by far the best ergonomically, as well as sounding just slightly better than the others, and being reasonably priced.  OTOH, the Norse is very good in every respect and the least expensive, so it has a LOT going for it.
   
  I have huge respect for Ken at ALO audio, and have liked a lot of his products, and own a lot of them, but the weight and cost of the chain-mail cable that I bought make it kind of the toughest to recommend of this bunch.


----------



## Frankie K

Thanks SkyLab for the info, it will probably come down to the Q-Audio or the Norse. I'll take My time and figure it out when the time come's.


----------



## brasewel

Just went back to the stock cable after 2 weeks of using the Norse Audio. The stock really seems dead in comparison and the difference in SQ is most apparent on vocals.


----------



## milosolo

Wow, I read this entire thread! I went to Portland two months ago to upgrade my speaker mains and center channel from Fred's Sound of Music. After that was completed I went to 32Ohm/ALO Audio to audition headphones and cables. Based on my experience building several different personal systems over the years (I think I'm on "v.7" now) I'm a firm believer in thinking cables are another component in the chain requiring careful consideration. So it didn't surprise me that I could tailor the sound signature of the LCD2 simply by using different cable styles.
   
  I auditioned the LCD2, HD650, Beyer T5p, and Ultrasone HFI-780. The LCD2 with ALO cables was easily the best SQ compared to the others. My notes say the HD650 came in 2nd along with being the best value. One of my main system philosophies has always been to achieve the best value for my money.
   
  Now my new speakers sound amazing compared to what I had before but it made me realize that my current interconnects and speaker cables aren't allowing my system to sound the best that I believe it is capable of. So I have been researching this subject and came up with the Nordost Heimdal which from what I have read sounds like it would be a good match to the other components. Now if I could replace all cables with the Q-Audio I would save ~40-50% in the process. I would be interested in hearing about anyone here that is using Q-Audio cables in there main system? (Hopefully this request isn't off-topic.)
   
  Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. Being a noob here I really appreciate the collective knowledge that is being shared for everyone's benefit.


----------



## brasewel

^^ Did you get to use the LCDs with other cables?


----------



## Currawong

milosolo: The Heimdall is a distinctly coloured cable, with a forward mid-range. It's a pity, because the design would make for a neat headphone cable.  For half the price of a pair you could also get the Van Den Hul The Orchid, which is much like the Nordost, sans the colouration.  VDH isn't a well-known company in the USA, as they do no advertising and are more famous for their cartridges.


----------



## Bobcow

Received my Q-Audio cable finally. Won't really get a chance to use it for a few days, but am loving how light and flexible it is.


----------



## milosolo

brasewel - The goal of my visit was to just gain a general idea of; 1) what I liked in the ALO lineup, and 2) impressions of the four cans I auditioned. I didn't take notes on the cables I tried (doh!) but I seem to recall I tried a couple of different gauges of copper and one copper/silver hybrid. The LCD2/ALO were clearly the ultimate combinations of what I tried. If I recall correctly I liked the copper cables more than the hybrid. The HD650 combinations were very excellent at ~half the price of the LCD2. I purchased a nearly new HD650 with DHC Molecule cable from a member here and so far I've put ~180 hours of burn-in on them and I'm very happy with the purchase!
   
  Currawong - Thank you for your feedback and the suggestion. I had heard of VDH before but didn't realize what a huge selection of cables, carts, etc. that they offer. I think one of the appeals of this hobby is the amount of research one can do before having to ultimately make a purchase decision!


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Well, just ordered my lcd2 and my q cable today. I am sure the cable will make a difference, the question will be will I like the lcd2. Time will tell.


 


  Awesome man.  Looking forward to hearing what you think.
   
  ...I almost wrote "hearing what you hear"...lol


----------



## KingStyles

Just received my lcd2 today and I get my balanced q-cable tomorrow.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> ...I almost wrote "hearing what you hear"...lol


 

 Gonna have to wait for USB 10.0 for that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Just received my lcd2 today and I get my balanced q-cable tomorrow.


 

 Oh, you wanted BALANCED? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




   
  se


----------



## KingStyles

Of course I want balanced. The mini xlr better weigh the same as the regular xlr's.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Of course I want balanced. The mini xlr better weigh the same as the regular xlr's.


 
  LOL!  Bolas...another use for Q-Audio cables!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## doctorcilantro

Quote: 





bobcow said:


> Received my Q-Audio cable finally. Won't really get a chance to use it for a few days, but am loving how light and flexible it is.


 


  What kind of wire does he use?


----------



## MHinGA

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> LOL!  Bolas...another use for Q-Audio cables!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 

 I keep paracord in my field kit, but now I'm beginning to think...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Of course I want balanced. The mini xlr better weigh the same as the regular xlr's.


 

 *wondering where he can get his hands on some depleted uranium to stuff the mini-XLR's with...*
   
  Yeah, sure thing, KingStyles! I'll get right on that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> What kind of wire does he use?


 

 It's an ultra fine Type 2 copper litz wire made up of 46 gauge strands (165 to be precise).
   
  se


----------



## doctorcilantro

What is "Type 2" copper?
   
  thanks
  dc


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





doctorcilantro said:


> What is "Type 2" copper?


 
   
  Why, it's the one after Type 1 copper of course. Thought that should have been pretty obvious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Sorry. I should have phrased my original statement better. Type 2 refers to the litz construction, not the copper. 
   
  Type 1 litz is like regular stranded wire in that all the wires are twisted together at the same time, except the individual strands are insulated. 
   
  Type 2 litz is made up of multiple twists. In this case, eleven strands are twisted together. Then three bundles of those are twisted together. And finally five bundles of those are twisted together (11 x 3 x 5 = 165).
   

   

   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

...And how long does it take you to twist all that wire?  Don't your hands (and eyes) get tired? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> ...And how long does it take you to twist all that wire?  Don't your hands (and eyes) get tired?


 
   
  Oh, I don't bother myself with such lowly work as that. Besides, my hands are too big and my fingers too fat.
   
  For that work, I've got elves.
   
  Picked 'em up real cheap back in 2001 during the big layoff at Keebler when they were bought up by Kellogg.
   
  They can be nasty little bastards, but they work hard. And best of all, none of our labor laws cover elves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Frankie K

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh, I don't bother myself with such lowly work as that. Besides, my hands are too big and my fingers too fat.
> 
> For that work, I've got elves.
> 
> ...


----------



## Permagrin

frankie k said:


> No wonder the cookie's are'nt as good anymore, You've taken all the Elve's, damn You. Do You at least make different flavored cable's?




Why? Are you a rabbit?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh, I don't bother myself with such lowly work as that. Besides, my hands are too big and my fingers too fat.
> For that work, I've got elves.
> Picked 'em up real cheap back in 2001 during the big layoff at Keebler when they were bought up by Kellogg.
> They can be nasty little bastards, but they work hard. And best of all, none of our labor laws cover elves.
> ...


 

 LOL!
  I bet you feed them Lucky Charms to keep them contented.  They wash that sown with some good Irish Stout, no doubt.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





frankie k said:


> No wonder the cookie's are'nt as good anymore, You've taken all the Elve's, damn You.


 

 Hey, don't blame ME! It was Kellogg who laid 'em off. You know how it goes with mergers and acquisitions. Cut out the dead wood. Kellogg already had a large stable of cute animated characters so they decided to ditch a bunch of the surplus elves.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Do You at least make different flavored cable's?


 
   
  Sure. Licorice, chocolate, lemon custard and vanilla. Sprinkles are extra. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> LOL!
> I bet you feed them Lucky Charms to keep them contented.  They wash that sown with some good Irish Stout, no doubt.


 
   
  Are you kidding me? Have you priced kid's cereal lately? I could feed 'em steak for that!
   
  I keep 'em contented by letting them know that if they don't give me any grief, I won't turn them into the INS. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Frankie K

Quote: 





permagrin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Easter passed, I have a different job now.

  
   


  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Hey, don't blame ME! It was Kellogg who laid 'em off. You know how it goes with mergers and acquisitions. Cut out the dead wood. Kellogg already had a large stable of cute animated characters so they decided to ditch a bunch of the surplus elves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

The Licorice Cable is excellent!  ...and I thought I didn't like licorice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Snips

Thanks for the cable Steve! Only took a few days to arrive at my door XD. Sounds great out of the Tiny Tube amp/dac.
   
  My brother borrowed my Lyr and the NFB-3 ain't gonna arrive till early June, so the Tiny Tube will have to do for now.


----------



## HK_sends

Good looking cable you got there...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Kachui

Another vote for the Q Cable!  Did not expect much improvement over the stock cable when I ordered it...but was pleasantly surprised!  A must have upgrade for LCD-2 owners...and at a very reasonable price too! Thanks, Steve.


----------



## Snips

Quote: 





kachui said:


> Another vote for the Q Cable!  Did not expect much improvement over the stock cable when I ordered it...but was pleasantly surprised!  A must have upgrade for LCD-2 owners...and at a very reasonable price too! Thanks, Steve.


 

 Gah, I hate how my earpads look so horribly built when I see the other local LCD-2s


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





snips said:


> Gah, I hate how my earpads look so horribly built when I see the other local LCD-2s


 
  Audez'e is offering replacement earpads for $80.  you can see them on their beta site here:
   
http://www.audeze.com/audeze2/catalog/4
   
http://www.audeze.com/audeze2/leather-earpads
   
  It looks like the ordering button actually works.  They suggest e-mailing them and they will send video instructions on changing the pads.
   
  Hope this helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## KingStyles

Its about time they got a better site. Its also nice to know replacement pads are available.


----------



## brasewel

I got to compare the Norse Audio, Silver Dragon and Q-Audio cables at Wedge's place this weekend. The Silver Dragon was definitely the brightest and it would suit someone who needs a little more treble in their LCDs. I couldn't tell the difference between the Q-Audio and Norse however. I would give my recommendation to Norse for anyone who is on the fence just because of their pricing, styling and SQ.


----------



## rrrango

I have both the new ALO Audio and Silver Dragon cables for the LCD2.  The silver dragon cable is markedly brighter and more airy on the treble end of the spectrum.  But I significantly prefer the ALO Audio cable for most of the music I listen to-- Dave Matthews Band, Phish, House/Electronica music.


----------



## doctorcilantro

Do you know if the Q-cable is OFC and if he offers any higher grade connectors? I can't find this information.
  Quote: 





brasewel said:


> I got to compare the Norse Audio, Silver Dragon and Q-Audio cables at Wedge's place this weekend. The Silver Dragon was definitely the brightest and it would suit someone who needs a little more treble in their LCDs. I couldn't tell the difference between the Q-Audio and Norse however. I would give my recommendation to Norse for anyone who is on the fence just because of their pricing, styling and SQ.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


doctorcilantro said:


> Do you know if the Q-cable is OFC and if he offers any higher grade connectors? I can't find this information.


 
  Just send Steve Eddy a PM.  He's happy to answer questions and work with potential customers.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## NWRain

Hey people,
   
  I received my Stefan Audio Art Endorphin cable today. It's the version made to connect with power amplifiers.
   
  I have to say {redacted}, it is {redacted}, and the {redacted} are better. t's mch lghtr thn th stck cble. There isn't much to say right now, the included instructions say that the break in time is 150 hours. I wonder how it compares to the Q-cable, or the Nordost variety?
   
  Edited by the Department of National Conspiracy for compliance with DBT regulations.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> Do you know if the Q-cable is OFC and if he offers any higher grade connectors? I can't find this information.


 
  Money talks.....
   
  Quote: 





> I have to say {redacted}, it is {redacted}, and the {redacted} are better. t's mch lghtr thn th stck cble.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





nwrain said:


> Hey people,
> 
> I received my Stefan Audio Art Endorphin cable today. It's the version made to connect with power amplifiers.
> 
> ...


 

 LOL!


----------



## HK_sends

On a slightly off, but related topic, I want to than Steve Eddy at Q-Audio again for his excellent customer service!  I have been very impressed with the sound of his Black Magic cable for my LCD-2s so I asked if he could build a custom mini plug-to-RCA adapter cable so I could have a good interconnect between my sound source and my Schiit Lyr amp.  I should get it in the next day or two and will post a picture.  The Black Magic cable sounds sweet to these old ears and adds to the LCD-2's "retro-steampunk-industrial" look.
   
  Thanks Steve,
  I can't wait to hear it.
   
  *UPDATE* - Wow, it's already here and burning in.  Thanks to Q-Audio for the custom work...

   

   
  Now I have Black Magic running from my source to my ears...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  - HK sends


----------



## TruBrew

I just ordered myself a set of Q-Audio cables for my LCD-2 off another head-fi member. It will be black like yours. I would have preferred brown, but the savings helped. I am excited to get this in. I hear good things about the sound, and if nothing else I am just looking forward to its light and flexible nature.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I just ordered myself a set of Q-Audio cables for my LCD-2 off another head-fi member. It will be black like yours. I would have preferred brown, but the savings helped. I am excited to get this in. I hear good things about the sound, and if nothing else I am just looking forward to its light and flexible nature.


 
  The light weight and flexibility are definitely worth the price.  I have never seen another headphone cable that was this flexible, it literally does seem like a braided shoestring.
  The excellent sound is just a bonus.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## doctorcilantro

Still waiting for an answer, which might shed light on why this cable might be observed as so "light and flexible". Namely.... what the hell is it made of? Yes litz, but what kind of copper process is used? Dielectric?
   
  Similar thing happened to me recently; most all turntable makers measure, however inaccurately even the the most advance software might be (Feickert?), wow and flutter. One manfacturer just does not. I don't mind subjective opinions, but I like to have an objective starting point from which I can "get oriented".
   
  And, why am I supposed to PM someone to get what should be information available in the public domain? Do people here even know what they are buying besides a name? 

  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The light weight and flexibility are definitely worth the price.  I have never seen another headphone cable that was this flexible, it literally does seem like a braided shoestring.
> The excellent sound is just a bonus.
> ...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





doctorcilantro said:


> Still waiting for an answer, which might shed light on why this cable might be observed as so "light and flexible". Namely.... what the hell is it made of? Yes litz, but what kind of copper process is used? Dielectric?


 

 It's made using Type 2 round litz wire comprised of 165 strands of 46 gauge copper wire (24 gauge equivalent) in a 5 x 3 x 11 configuration at 12 twists per inch. The copper alloy is CDA 110, otherwise known as Electrolytic Tough Pitch (ETP) copper. The individual strands are insulated with a single build solderable polyurethane enamel (NEMA MW79C) with a nominal thickness of 0.00008 inches. The litz wires are further insulated with braided cotton sleeving made using 16 carriers loaded with two end Tex 30 cotton thread.
   
  Does that answer your questions?
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *doctorcilantro*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have a question, where do the Travelocity (TM) gnomes and elves fit in? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Apparently, "magic" isn't a good enough answer for "doctorcilantro" and of course I am too ignorant to inquire as to what the cable consists of...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Wait...didn't Kwkarth post information about the cable construction earlier in this thread...perhaps (along with his recommendation) prompting me to want to try out the magic shoestring?
   
  I look at the specs, but don't always purchase until I've read the reviews...that "forest for the trees" thing...but I guess I am just an ignorant Kool-Aid (TM) drinker who is happier than a pig in slop over a cool little cable that might or might not (according to the specs) sound better than any other cable I have heard.  I don't care if it's made of magic poo-poo powder (actually Steve, I do...no poo-poo, please), I am very happy with it.
   
  And to clarify why I recommended a PM to Steve was to insure I didn't mis-speak the specs...going to the source, as it were
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...like I did, before purchasing the cable.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers to my fellow Kool-Aid (TM) drinkers!!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I have a question, where do the Travelocity (TM) gnomes and elves fit in?


 

 I can't say that in public. This is a clean, family-oriented forum. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> I can't say that in public. This is a clean, family-oriented forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  ROTFLMAO!!!
   
  -HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





doctorcilantro said:


> Still waiting for an answer, which might shed light on why this cable might be observed as so "light and flexible". Namely.... what the hell is it made of? Yes litz, but what kind of copper process is used? Dielectric?
> 
> Similar thing happened to me recently; most all turntable makers measure, however inaccurately even the the most advance software might be (Feickert?), wow and flutter. One manfacturer just does not. I don't mind subjective opinions, but I like to have an objective starting point from which I can "get oriented".
> 
> And, why am I supposed to PM someone to get what should be information available in the public domain? Do people here even know what they are buying besides a name?


 
  I suggest you go back and read my initial review of the Q-Audio cable and you'll answer your questions and learn all you need to know.


----------



## doctorcilantro

Okay, I appreciate the information guys, thanks.  I was looking to find out what copper was used in the q-cable and could not find it anywhere on the website.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> It's made using Type 2 round litz wire comprised of 165 strands of 46 gauge copper wire (24 gauge equivalent) in a 5 x 3 x 11 configuration at 12 twists per inch. The copper alloy is CDA 110, otherwise known as Electrolytic Tough Pitch (ETP) copper. The individual strands are insulated with a single build solderable polyurethane enamel (NEMA MW79C) with a nominal thickness of 0.00008 inches. The litz wires are further insulated with braided cotton sleeving made using 16 carriers loaded with two end Tex 30 cotton thread.
> 
> Does that answer your questions?
> 
> se


 

 I like your style se, you're like a master chef sharing his recipes.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I like your style se, you're like a master chef sharing his recipes.


 

 Thank you for the kind words.
   
  Though truth be told, I didn't spill _all_ the beans. I left out the ingredients for the marinade I soak the litz wire in before sleeving it in the cotton. That's a recipe that was handed down to me from my grandmother and will always remain a closely guarded family secret. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## brasewel

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Thank you for the kind words.
> 
> Though truth be told, I didn't spill _all_ the beans. *I left out the ingredients for the marinade I soak the litz wire in before sleeving it in the cotton*. That's a recipe that was handed down to me from my grandmother and will always remain a closely guarded family secret.
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Thank you for the kind words.
> 
> Though truth be told, I didn't spill _all_ the beans. I left out the ingredients for the marinade I soak the litz wire in before sleeving it in the cotton. That's a recipe that was handed down to me from my grandmother and will always remain a closely guarded family secret.
> 
> ...


 
  Just don't tell your dog...  Remember Bush's beans.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Just don't tell your dog...  Remember Bush's beans.


 


 That's where I'm ahead of the game. I don't own a dog. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> That's where I'm ahead of the game. I don't own a dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah, but what do you use for a woofer?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Yeah, but what do you use for a woofer?


 

 Oddball.
   




   




   
  se


----------



## MHinGA

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> That's where I'm ahead of the game. I don't own a dog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My two dogs own me.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mhinga said:


> My two dogs own me.


 

 Hehehe.
   
  They forgot to put a dog clause in the Thirteenth Amendment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oddball.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Perfect answer!  BTW, my dogs own me too.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Thank you for the kind words.
> 
> Though truth be told, I didn't spill _all_ the beans. I left out the ingredients for the marinade I soak the litz wire in before sleeving it in the cotton. That's a recipe that was handed down to me from my grandmother and will always remain a closely guarded family secret.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think there's more to this analogy. Like with the master chef, the recipe is only part of the equation. It's all about familiarity with the ingredients, and the technique used when assembling them.


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ...

i don't like the stock cable, how do i buy one from Q-Audio.com? on their website there's only interconnect and speaker cables too choose from.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


dreaming of a better ... said:


> i don't like the stock cable, how do i buy one from Q-Audio.com? on their website there's only interconnect and speaker cables too choose from.


 

 Just send a PM to Steve Eddy (he owns Q-Audio) with your order request.  He posts on this thread quite often and offers first-class service.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ...

i see, thanks 

sent a PM

and bought a nice 2m, brown cable on the same day, brilliant service Q-Audio


----------



## toads

norse 8 strand...inexpensive, custom lengths...balanced top to bottom...


----------



## sferic

A/B-ing my new Norse Audio with the stock cable tonight. 
   
  Chain: MacPro/AppleLossless/Apogee Duet Dac/Schiit Lyr w/Cryo 6H23N
   
  Sound: NOTICEABLE difference in definition/treble response - you may need to rebalance some settings if you've been cranking up the treble. And the bass is still there in all its glory.
  Ergonomics: MUCH lighter, the adjustable collar is really nice. No microphonics. Ergonomics are a HUGE improvement.
  Appearance: I like it very much, it fits the aesthetics of the LCD-2's (the adjuster thingy is wood and you can get it in the same finish). Some people may prefer the slick & simple look of the stock cable but I like the braided wires, etc. it feels like a hand crafted art object as opposed to a mass-produced item. The packaging is very nice, and done with obvious care. From the fill, to the nice cloth bag, to the beautiful graphics, but again, it's not slick expensive 4-color mass production injected molded plastic stuff, it's very well thought out artisan packaging. From the design of the logo, to the cable, to the packaging, you can tell this company has a very refined sense of aesthetics.
  Company: Absolutely incredible to deal with, extremely responsive. No qualms about dealing with Norse Audio - they are very much in the same vein as Audeze & Schiit in the personal attention dept. They are obviously in this to build a reputation with highly discerning consumers.
  Value: $140 for a 6' cable that sounds much better, and feels MUCH better than the stock cable. The value proposition is insanely good in a market where there are theives who prey on the legendary loose wallets of audiophiles.
   
  I'm extremely happy with my set up now. The Lyr is amazing for the LCD-2's, and tube rolling seems to just tune it, there are no flaws to reveal with better tubes. I was skeptical a cable swap could make the LCD-2's better, but I was irritated by the weight & length of the stock cable and would've been happy with something that sounded the same but weighed less. BUT this is a great upgrade sonically as well. The Schiit guys, are, us, and I think they knew they didn't need to break the bank on tubes because we'd be rolling them like mad, and the LCD guys are also us, and shipped a durable, highly competent, well-made cable knowing we'd be swapping like mad.
   
  For Norse Audio to come in with such a fine product at a reasonable price is a very wise move. 
   
  This is a very exciting time for Head-Fi. We have all these relatively small, American companies providing couture audiophile equipment at incredible prices, and with amazing customer service.


----------



## TruBrew

I just received my Q-Audio Cable in the mail today. It shipped Saturday, and I don't live close to them; I have no idea how it got here so quick. Anyway, I have a question. My amp is out for service or I could figure it out myself. Which wire is for which channel. There is no black/red dot do differentiate them. Once of the cables is striped, but that doesn't tell me if it is left or right. I assume someone here will know.


----------



## Equus

I don't know offhand.  I actually pulled the left channel interconnect on my amp to find out which was the right channel and used a red sharpie to mark the mini-xlr.  I can check when I get home or something.


----------



## HK_sends

One side's cable is solid color, the other side has the "speckles" or dots on the sleeve.  The speckled cable is the right side, the solid color cable is left side.
  I had to ask Steve myself, which was which.
   
  Hope that helps...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I just received my Q-Audio Cable in the mail today. It shipped Saturday, and I don't live close to them; I have no idea how it got here so quick. Anyway, I have a question. My amp is out for service or I could figure it out myself. Which wire is for which channel. There is no black/red dot do differentiate them. Once of the cables is striped, but that doesn't tell me if it is left or right. I assume someone here will know.


 
   
  Quote: 





equus said:


> I don't know offhand.  I actually pulled the left channel interconnect on my amp to find out which was the right channel and used a red sharpie to mark the mini-xlr.  I can check when I get home or something.


----------



## TruBrew

Thanks, that was what I had planned to do, but I figured I would ask before going through the trouble. That and as I said, my amp is being worked on and won't be back until tomorrow.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> One side's cable is solid color, the other side has the "speckles" or dots on the sleeve.  The speckled cable is the right side, the solid color cable is left side.


 
   
  That's not very intuitive.


----------



## Permagrin

^ It is to me. In my experience right has been the colorful side, like in cables right is red. Speckles though, ehh.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's not very intuitive.


 
   
  Quote: 





permagrin said:


> ^ It is to me. In my experience right has been the colorful side, like in cables right is red. Speckles though, ehh.


 
  I think it fits in with Steve's philosophy of "understated over ostentatious" (please correct me if I am wrong, Steve).  With the cables looking "natural" with browns, blacks, etc, a red dot or high-vis indicator would stand out like a sore thumb, possibly making the cable seem cheap or unfashionable.  I know the Blue Dragon Cable I also have doesn't have any indicator which side is which...but if you have the Blue Dragon label (on the Y-splitter cover) facing away from you (as if you were wearing it), the left and right sides would be correct (only took me 20 minutes to figure that out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
   
  ...or Steve simply just ran out of marking paint and colored shrink tube. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## TruBrew

Whatever the reason, the Q-Audio cables look and feel awesome. They are so light and flexible I almost don't believe there is any copper inside. As far as I know, that could be true. I can't plug them in until tomorrow when I get my SX-950 back from the shop.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I think it fits in with Steve's philosophy of "understated over ostentatious" (please correct me if I am wrong, Steve).  With the cables looking "natural" with browns, blacks, etc, a red dot or high-vis indicator would stand out like a sore thumb, possibly making the cable seem cheap or unfashionable.






   
  A thin red ring as opposed to a wider band might be apropos.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> ...or Steve simply just ran out of marking paint and colored shrink tube.


 

 Yeaaaaah! That's the ticket! I ran out of marking paint and colored shrink tube. *in my best Jon Lovitz voice*
   
  Actually it just seemed sort of a natural given what I was already doing with interconencts and speaker cables, i.e. using a pair of solid color leads and a pair of leads with different color tracer threads to identify the ground leads. For the headphone cables, I used it to identify left and right channels, solid being left and tracered being right.
   
  However this will all soon be made moot with a few strokes of a laser.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





>





> A thin red ring as opposed to a wider band might be apropos.


 

 It will soon be the letter "L" and the letter "R," which more people will be able to immediately identify than the red = right and white = left standard.
   
  se


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> It will soon be the letter "L" and the letter "R," which more people will be able to immediately identify than the red = right and white = left standard.
> 
> se


 

 More English-speaking people at least...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> Yeaaaaah! That's the ticket! I ran out of marking paint and colored shrink tube. *in my best Jon Lovitz voice*
> 
> Actually it just seemed sort of a natural given what I was already doing with interconencts and speaker cables, i.e. using a pair of solid color leads and a pair of leads with different color tracer threads to identify the ground leads. For the headphone cables, I used it to identify left and right channels, solid being left and tracered being right.
> 
> ...


 
  Can you make that optional?  Some of us still like to "amaze our friends" with our intuitive cable hook-up skillz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## TruBrew

What does everyone here do with the stock cable. Do you keep it just as a back up? I was thinking about selling mine since I don't see myself ever using it, and who doesn't like having a few extra dollars in their pocket.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> More English-speaking people at least...


 

 Right is right and left is left no matter what the language. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  aw


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Can you make that optional?  Some of us still like to "amaze our friends" with our intuitive cable hook-up skillz.


 
   
  Naaaah.
   
  You wanna amaze your friends, get yourself a pair of these.
   

   




   
  se


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> What does everyone here do with the stock cable. Do you keep it just as a back up? I was thinking about selling mine since I don't see myself ever using it, and who doesn't like having a few extra dollars in their pocket.


 


 I just kept mine as a back up and as a point of reference in case someone who doesn't have a pair of LCD-2's wants to hear the stock cables at a meet.


----------



## cavedave

I have 2 cables one I made and the stock one. Something interesting I A/b them once in awhile and the more time I put on the stock cable the more I really like it. At first I thought it was kind of dark and some what constricting after putting some hours on it and the phones this stock cable is a lot better then I thought it was at the first. In fact I have now only been using the stock one and am very pleased with it, Something some might want to think about. I to was going to set the stock one aside for good and in the end am glad I gave it another chance. I also find if you switch things around diffrent CD player or tuner amp or interconnects sometimes that favorite cable can become the not so favorite cable and the old one becomes the good one. For those who think all cables sound the same disreguard all of the above.


----------



## cavedave

Well this after noon for something to do I made another cable for my LCD2 this time out of Cardas 4/22 the kind most often used for Sennheiser HDxxx this cable is very nice also.
  Probaly the most balanced of the three I have I believe most would really like this one. I wish it was a little longer I only had a 4 foot piece left over from another project. Only have about 1 hour on this cable very nice indeed. Very full sounding strong top to bottom makes these even sound more live sounding.


----------



## DeadEars

Another way to amuse yourself is to use the same wire but different brands/types of connectors.  For instance, using Cardas wire I hear differences with Neutrik vs. WBA vs. Radio Shack brands of RCA plugs (as interconnects).  Then there's wire geometry, braiding, insulation choices, etc.  I actually hear bigger differences in many of these than I do in different physical wires.
   
  Of course, if you are having fun listening to wire, you need to get a life!
   
   
  best,


----------



## KevinWolff

ALO Ref8 Copper, but with miniplug. Sounds incredible, but I find it ugly. I don't care to see the copper.
  Also makes an annoying noise when it rubs against itself, like a knocking sound or slow woodpeckers which is audible in the soundstage,
  Minor gripes. The sound is so much better than the stock cable though, and it's lighter than I expected.


----------



## LostChild1

Just put in an order with Steve for a brown Q-Cable for my LCD-2s. I haven't had the LCD-2s very long at all, but the stock cable isn't long enough to suit my normal listening position. I had a bit of extra money from tax returns that I decided I could use to spring for what many seem to claim as he best aftermarket cable available for the LCD-2s.

For me I'm not sure if I believe in the sound changing characteristics of a cable, but the reported flexibility, weightlessness and increased length is what sold me on buying the cable. I opted for 12ft (3.5m) of length, to have some wiggle room in the future with my setup. (10 ft was the minimum I needed.)

Dealing with Steve was a pleasure, and his responses came quick.  

I'll try and report back when I get the cables with a few pictures, and a few thoughts.


----------



## KevinWolff

I ordered mine from Q Branch. It can be used to strangle SPECTRE agents.
   
  Kidding. Q-Audio 3.5m here too. Just placed order.
   
  I had an ALO copper chainmail, but the noise it made when the plastic shielding rubbed against itself was driving me insane. like a slowed down woodpecker.


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





kevinwolff said:


> I ordered mine from Q Branch. It can be used to strangle SPECTRE agents.
> 
> Kidding. Q-Audio 3.5m here too. Just placed order.
> 
> I had an ALO copper chainmail, but the noise it made when the plastic shielding rubbed against itself was driving me insane. like a slowed down woodpecker.


 
   
  Interesting on the ALO cable.  I have the old 8 wire flat weave, and never noticed any microphonics from it...but then again, I'm usually not moving around that much with my cans on since it's right next to my bed.  What version of the cable were you using?
   
  I'll be interested to hear your opinion between that and the Q-Audio.  Always like hearing opinions.  Not that it would sway my purchasing...since I already have an ALO and Q-Audio cable too...just curious.


----------



## KevinWolff

the round chain mail (there's a photo a few posts back). unfortunately my alo is a mini plug used with my sr71a .  the q will be 1/4 and used with the peak/volcano I just ordered, so comparisons will be a bit unfair.  
  
  Quote: 





equus said:


> Interesting on the ALO cable.  I have the old 8 wire flat weave, and never noticed any microphonics from it...but then again, I'm usually not moving around that much with my cans on since it's right next to my bed.  What version of the cable were you using?
> 
> I'll be interested to hear your opinion between that and the Q-Audio.  Always like hearing opinions.  Not that it would sway my purchasing...since I already have an ALO and Q-Audio cable too...just curious.


----------



## LostChild1

kevinwolff said:


> the round chain mail (there's a photo a few posts back). unfortunately my alo is a mini plug used with my sr71a .  the q will be 1/4 and used with the peak/volcano I just ordered, so comparisons will be a bit unfair.




Congrats on the Peak/Volcano. I had limited exposure to it at a recent meet, with a whole slew of headphones (LCD-2, HD800, DT770, HD650) and while my impressions were very limited, it sure is a beautiful sounding machine.  Look forward to hearing those impressions.


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





kevinwolff said:


> the round chain mail (there's a photo a few posts back). unfortunately my alo is a mini plug used with my sr71a .  the q will be 1/4 and used with the peak/volcano I just ordered, so comparisons will be a bit unfair.


 
   
  Ah!  Derrrr....should have noticed that.  Sorry.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Enjoy the Q-Audio cable and P/V.  I had the loaner for a week or so, and while P/V and LCD-2 wasn't completely my cup o' tea, it's a fabulous combo.  Especially for clarity and imaging.


----------



## KevinWolff

What about it didn't you like? Which tubes did you use for your test?
   
  I am a little concerned. I love the idea of really great resolution, but have heard that listeners who prefer (that's me) rolled off highs might find it too bright? I love the Ray Samuels sound, and I think I may have moved far away from that.
   
  Also, I have the Anedio D1 dac, which is extremely neutral.
   
  I intend to get a Mullard  ECC32 NOS from tube world to get a more lush sound. I canceled the Shuguang upgrade tube. 
   
  I guess it's my own fault for not going to a meet to demo amps first, since I live in the Eastern US less than 30 minutes from New York City. But I'm a bit of a recluse, so I guess it's restock fees, compounded shipping costs, and 4sale signs for me. 
   
  Quote: 





equus said:


> Ah!  Derrrr....should have noticed that.  Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





kevinwolff said:


> I am a little concerned. I love the idea of really great resolution, but have heard that listeners who prefer (that's me) rolled off highs might find it too bright? I love the Ray Samuels sound, and I think I may have moved far away from that.
> 
> I intend to get a Mullard  ECC32 NOS from tube world to get a more lush sound. I canceled the Shuguang upgrade tube.
> 
> I guess it's my own fault for not going to a meet to demo amps first, since I live in the Eastern US less than 30 minutes from New York City. But I'm a bit of a recluse, so I guess it's restock fees, compounded shipping costs, and 4sale signs for me.


 

 I don't think its bright at all.  I'd say its about neutral.


----------



## KevinWolff

I spoke with Todd at TTVJ when I ordered. He said the best thing about the peak is that the sound essentially IS the tube. So the options for tweaking are virtually limitless. I do like the sound of that. It's not usually the case in hybrid amps if I read correctly.
  
  Quote: 





wedge said:


> I don't think its bright at all.  I'd say its about neutral.


----------



## Wedge

That depends on the design of the Hybrid.  I'd say the P/V is great amp and I like it.  I will also add my props to Steve Eddy's Q-Audio cable.


----------



## KevinWolff

Does anyone know why ALO cables are so much more expensive than q-audio, moon audio, etc? 3.5 meters for $300 from Eddy. And ALO copper is over 400 for 1/3 the length


----------



## KevinWolff

Also, is anyone using q-audio interconnects? if so how are they? Wondering what to use to connect my D1 to the peak. I have 12 year old MI Terminators that I will use until I figure on what's best to buy.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> Does anyone know why ALO cables are so much more expensive than q-audio, moon audio, etc? 3.5 meters for $300 from Eddy. And ALO copper is over 400 for 1/3 the length


 
   
  They use jenna labs wire. $250 for 50 ft of the wire. That would only be enough for 1 5ft cable (there 8 wire cable) plus the price of connectors (another $30).Add in the time and expense of a cable braiding machine, solder and tools, and enough left over to live on, it adds up quick. Not a lot left over from that $425 they charge for it. You have to charge according to the materials used. http://www.jenalabs.com/ultrawire/ultrawire.html


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





kevinwolff said:


> What about it didn't you like? Which tubes did you use for your test?
> 
> I am a little concerned. I love the idea of really great resolution, but have heard that listeners who prefer (that's me) rolled off highs might find it too bright? I love the Ray Samuels sound, and I think I may have moved far away from that.
> 
> ...


 

 Check out the review I wrote up here for specifics on the setup: http://www.head-fi.org/products/apex-high-fi-audio-peak-and-volcano/reviews
   
  So as not to derail the thread too much, if you're curious feel free to shoot me a PM.
   
  On topic, I'm going to hold on to my v2 flat ALO cable...at least until the Liquid Fire arrives so I can see if I have a different preference than when I use the Stacker.


----------



## Currawong

KingStyles: I think ALO now only use their own-brand wire and don't use the Jena Labs wire for the most part.


----------



## KingStyles

Thanks, I didnt know that. It looks like they are still a jena labs dealer by the looks of it from the jena labs website though.


----------



## lupin..the..3rd

Quote: 





wulvy said:


> ..... with aftermarket cables.
> 
> I've tried to search the forum with limited success. It seems the ALO Chain Mail is a popular choice but on the more expensive side...


 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4


----------



## PanamaRed

I use the ALO Silver/Copper Chain Mail and love it.


----------



## swbf2cheater

Lets say there is a guy named swbf2cheater and said person wishes to acquire a much shorter, more portable length cable for an lcd2.  What and where would this person find it 
   
  im looking for a 3.75ft cable terminated in a standard mini 3.5mm, any recommendations?


----------



## MHinGA

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Lets say there is a guy named swbf2cheater and said person wishes to acquire a much shorter, more portable length cable for an lcd2.  What and where would this person find it
> 
> im looking for a 3.75ft cable terminated in a standard mini 3.5mm, any recommendations?


 

 Steve at Q Audio could certainly do that. He made me a mini adaptor, so I know he has the mini plug. PM him.


----------



## swbf2cheater

awesome, can you snap a pic of it and send it to me ? 
   
  *gives a cookie


----------



## grokit

Any custom cable vendor can do it. I like the Double Helix Molecule.
  http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1


----------



## LostChild1

swbf2cheater, I'll also throw my hat in the ring for Steve's Q Cable. And at a mere 3.5ft (I just purchased a 12ft cable from him) it should be quite inexpensive. 

Anyway, I wanted to just come back and give some thoughts on the Brown, 12ft (3.5m) Q Cable I just received from Steve. Now, I'm a little biased in the actual sound science department, in that I don't much believe in the magic of cables, that coupled with the fact that I've only had the standard cable for a few weeks means that I'm not exactly the best person to go to for comparisons. So I'll just leave it at "It doesn't sound any worse" 

The main reason I bought the cable was because I sit in two different locations to listen to music, the first is right next to my amp sitting at the computer, the second being lying on my bed, a few metres away. The standard LCD-2 cable was far too short to reach my bed (I would have to lie down backwards for it to reach) and when sitting at the computer, the cable would kind of bunch up because there was simply too much cable, and would generally be uncomfortable. That being said, when I heard that Steve had the lightest, most flexible cable on the market (By general consensus of this thread) I had to try it.

Now that I've received the cable, when sitting by the PC, I'm able to move the cable out of the way and it stays put where I rest it, and is so light that I hardly notice it at all. Also, given the extra length, I'm able to sit in my favorite listening spot with enough extra cable so that it doesn't tug on my headphones, even when it's hanging in midair.

These two facts along make the price extremely justified in my book, and I'd definitely recommend them to anyone who is looking for a aesthetically pleasing, light and flexible wire. 

Of course, the wire isn't the only good thing about my experience with the Q Cable, but Steve has some of the best customer service in my experience with any online purchasing. His PMs came fast, were friendly, and elaborated on whatever questions I had about his process and the cables themselves. He was a pleasure to talk to, and was very flexible. For example, I currently own a unbalanced system, and opted for a TRS connector, and was assured that if ever I switch that he could re-terminate the cable to be balanced. Finally, as some of you may know, there is an ongoing Canada Post strike which could last an indefinite amount of time. In light of this, Steve was kind enough to ship my package via FedEx so that I could actually receive it, instead of having it get stuck in postal-limbo.

All in all the cable is great, the man is great and my entire experience has been great.  So even despite the fact that I, at this point (I've yet to A/B the cables), don't notice a clear sonic improvement, I'm extremely satisfied with my purchase.


----------



## HK_sends

Steve did this interconnect for me:

   
  He's happy to do custom work.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## sesshin

Recently received my Q cable and it's a beaut! I thought the envelope it came in was nice. Classy and understated. Can't comment on the sound of the cable, but ergonomics wise I'm in love with it. It's so light it's almost as if it's not even there.


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ... (Jun 19, 2020)

....


----------



## Fatmangolf

It's a cross-post (sorry!) but here is some info about a 5 metre DIY cable I made for my LCD-2's:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/560118/diy-cable-for-lcd-2-s#post_7566986


----------



## Loevhagen

Ordered from Q Audio today. Why? Having read this entire thread, I felt there was a consensus on that cable. I love my LCD-2 with the stock cable, but sitting very close to my amp (V200) I don´t need 3+ meters of cable. The feather weight cable from Q made me curious if it also alter the sound.
   
  Thanks to Steve for a very swift process of my order so far.


----------



## KevinWolff

You're gonna love the Q-Audio even more.
  
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Ordered from Q Audio today. Why? Having read this entire thread, I felt there was a consensus on that cable. *I love my LCD-2 with the stock cable*, but sitting very close to my amp (V200) I don´t need 3+ meters of cable. The feather weight cable from Q made me curious if it also alter the sound.
> 
> Thanks to Steve for a very swift process of my order so far.


----------



## KevinWolff

It's no placebo, it's a real improvement. I like the cotton sheath too. I just had to return an ALO cable because it's braided with plastic shielding and made an audible noise when it rubbed against itself. If you run your fingernail gently along the outside grill of the LCD-2  it makes almost the same knocking noise as the ALO cable. Very annoying. 
   
  Also, regarding its flexibility, I found Steve's cables to be more so than both alo and moon audio.  
  
  Quote: 





dreaming of a better ... said:


> got my Q cable today and its fantastic,  very light and very flexible (with stock i always had to constantly adjust the cable bcos it was so annoying) and the cotton braiding/jacketing is very well made and looks classy.
> 
> and i don't know if its placebo but  i noticed some changes in sound, i'll have to get my brother to help me with a A/B test before i "say" more.
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

I don't like techflex either. Besides the microphonics, they are rather stiff, the opposite of "supple" in their flexibility. I think that the Q sounds a lot like the default Double Helix Molecule that I have brought up, very high quality lightweight OCC wire sheathed in fabric.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I don't like techflex either. Besides the microphonics, they are rather stiff, the opposite of "supple" in their flexibility. I think that the Q sounds a lot like the default Double Helix Molecule that I have brought up, very high quality lightweight OCC wire sheathed in fabric.


 

 You are making a misinformed generalization.  Techflex is the brand name of hundreds of types of sheathing, so to say that you don't like when it's being used on your Double Helix Molecule cable verifies that.  The sheathing on that cable is Techflex Nylon Multifilament which is very soft and not "microphonic", unless you are using some really stiff-insulated wire underneath.  Perhaps you are thinking of Techflex Monofilament, which has a tendency to be "microphonic" and has a much stiffer sheathing.
   
  Another thing worth mentioning is that this term "microphonics" which is so loosely passed around, is not at all what you are describing.  Microphonics is an electrical phenomenon, not a physical one in the way you are interpreting it.
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphonic
   
  You are not hearing the mechanical noise being converted into an electrical signal.  You are hearing physical vibrations in the earcups, which is not the definition of microphonics.
   
  Wikipedias entry under Other Uses states:
_The term is sometimes misused to describe sounds transmitted to the ear physically by mechanical vibrations or knocks on the wires of a headphone or in-ear monitor, where no current induction occurs.[2]_


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> You are making a misinformed generalization.  Techflex is the brand name of hundreds of types of sheathing, so to say that you don't like when it's being used on your Double Helix Molecule cable verifies that.  The sheathing on that cable is Techflex Nylon Multifilament which is very soft and not "microphonic", unless you are using some really stiff-insulated wire underneath.  Perhaps you are thinking of Techflex Monofilament, which has a tendency to be "microphonic" and has a much stiffer sheathing.
> 
> Another thing worth mentioning is that this term "microphonics" which is so loosely passed around, is not at all what you are describing.  Microphonics is an electrical phenomenon, not a physical one in the way you are interpreting it.
> 
> ...


 

 Who said that I have issues with the sheathing on my Double Helix Molecule cables? You, not me. I never mentioned anything about Double Helix in my post.
   
  I always opt for the recommended "soft black multifilamant nylon" when I order my Molecules (I have 5 of them). But you are correct that I was making a misinformed generalization, as I do associate the brand name Techflex with their monofilament line. The monofilament sheathed cable that I was referring to is a TwagV2 from Whiplash. It sounds great but has the ergonomic issues that I mentioned previously. I much prefer the soft nylon version of Techflex that Peter uses and have repeatedly recommended his work.
   
  My Double Helix Molecule cables are light as a feather, supple, tangle-free and great sounding. I would have never guessed that the soft black multifilamant nylon they use was also Techflex so thanks for straightening me out on that.
   
  I am already aware of what the term microphonic means when it is applied to both vacuum tubes and cables, there's no need to patronize me. It's misused all the time on this site in regards to the noise made when cables rub, whether or not that noise is the result of any current and/or feedback being generated.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Who said that I have issues with the sheathing on my Double Helix Molecule cables? You, not me. I never mentioned anything about Double Helix in my post.
> 
> I always opt for the recommended "soft black multifilamant nylon" when I order my Molecules (I have 5 of them). But you are correct that I was making a misinformed generalization, as I do associate the brand name Techflex with their monofilament line. The monofilament sheathed cable that I was referring to is a TwagV2 from Whiplash. It sounds great but has the ergonomic issues that I mentioned previously. I much prefer the soft nylon version of Techflex that Peter uses and have repeatedly recommended his work.
> 
> My Double Helix Molecule cables are light as a feather, supple, tangle-free and great sounding. I would have never guessed that the soft black multifilamant nylon they use was also Techflex so thanks for straightening me out on that.


 

 I never said you did have issues with his cable, on the contrary I can see from your post you like it.  I was just correcting your notion that Techflex referred to one specific kind of sheathing which it doesn't.  They make hundreds.
   
  The only reason I can think of that monofilament would be used on some cables is because it doesn't fray or pill as easily.  When handling NMF, dry skin cuticles can get stuck between a braid and pull on a filament.  (Making lots of cables will cause your fingertips to get callused, unless you wear gloves.)  This makes them much harder to work with, but like you said is soft and looks very nice and is the choice of most cable manufacturers for that reason, and just laying on the floor like most headphone cables do it won't fray easily.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> *I never said you did have issues with his cable*, on the contrary I can see from your post you like it.  I was just correcting your notion that Techflex referred to one specific kind of sheathing which it doesn't.  They make hundreds.
> 
> The only reason I can think of that monofilament would be used on some cables is because it doesn't fray or pill as easily.  When handling NMF, dry skin cuticles can get stuck between a braid and pull on a filament.  (Making lots of cables will cause your fingertips to get callused, unless you wear gloves.)  This makes them much harder to work with, but like you said is soft and looks very nice and is the choice of most cable manufacturers for that reason, and just laying on the floor like most headphone cables do it won't fray easily.


 

 I must have misinterpreted then when you said, "so to say that you don't like when it's being used on your Double Helix Molecule cable verifies that", because I never said that.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I must have misinterpreted then when you said, "so to say that you don't like when it's being used on your Double Helix Molecule cable verifies that".
> 
> I never said that.


 

 I was referring to the fact that you said you don't like Techflex, and since Techflex is what's on your cable you obviously do like it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> I was referring to the fact that you said you don't like Techflex, and since Techflex is what's on your cable you obviously do like it.


 
   
  I wasn't even aware that the soft black multifilamant nylon that Peter uses is Techflex, but I can see that my misuse of the term Techflex when describing the monofilament sheathing that I don't care for inspired this miscommunication.
   
  Just to be clear I was not describing the Double Helix Cable when I used the term "Techflex", that was your inference.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I wasn't even aware that the soft black multifilamant nylon that Peter uses is Techflex, but I can see that my misuse of the term Techflex when describing the monofilament sheathing that I don't care for inspired this miscommunication.
> 
> Just to be clear I was not describing the Double Helix Cable when I used the term "Techflex", that was your inference.


 

 I know.  You were describing "fabric" and I was trying to point out that that fabric is indeed Techflex, since you said another cable you used had Techflex and you didn't like it.
   
  I think you get the point.


----------



## Permagrin

I have the ALO V2 (chainmail) cable and although it is not light or "supple" I've never heard the cable even without music playing. I do better than average on ear exams but who knows. :rolleyes:


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ... (Jun 19, 2020)

....


----------



## Theogenes

hk_sends said:


> Steve did this interconnect for me:
> 
> 
> He's happy to do custom work.
> ...




HK Sends, your Q Audio cables appear to be black in your picture. Is that correct? I ask because he does not have black listed as an available color on the website

Q Audio Steve: two quick questions for you! First, do you have any black cabling with red accents (I guess that's what you'd call them), and second, I've been toying with the idea of recabling my HD25s withjust such a cable. Do you think that would work? Would these cables work well as daily-use portables? Any potential downsides I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance to both of you for your help!!


----------



## tme110

He's got black and about 1/2 dozen of other unlisted colors and I think he can do them up in any way you want - but if it's not a stock setup there's a delay (a month maybe?) in making it up.  I wanted to do a custom cable myself but I was in a hurry for the cable - of course my LCD-2 died the day after I got the cable so it didn't matter.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





theogenes said:


> HK Sends, your Q Audio cables appear to be black in your picture. Is that correct? I ask because he does not have black listed as an available color on the website


 

 My apologies. Been meaning to do a website update/upgrade for a while now but just haven't been able to find the time. But yes, HK_sends' cables are indeed black.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Q Audio Steve: two quick questions for you! First, do you have any black cabling with red accents (I guess that's what you'd call them)...


 
   
  Matter of fact, thanks to kwkarth, I do.
   
  In the wire and cable industry, they're called "tracer" colors.
   
  Quote: 





> ...and second, I've been toying with the idea of recabling my HD25s withjust such a cable. Do you think that would work? Would these cables work well as daily-use portables? Any potential downsides I should be aware of?


 
   
  You mean aside from getting stained if you accidentally slop mustard on them? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can't think of any particular downsides to portable use.
   
  Back in the day, cloth covered wire was used for telephone line and receiver cords and they held up just fine.
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





theogenes said:


> HK Sends, your Q Audio cables appear to be black in your picture. Is that correct? I ask because he does not have black listed as an available color on the website


 
  Sorry, I've been away for a bit...but Steve answered for me.  Mine are black with brown tracers.  The color is subdued enough that unless you are looking for it you can't really tell.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> Back in the day, cloth covered wire was used for telephone line and receiver cords and they held up just fine.


 
  And...also used for headphone/headset cords...


  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Jodet

I have a question about Q-Audio.   Maybe 20 years ago (yes, I'm old) there was a bit of a fuss over an audiophile cable with wood connectors and very stiff wire.
   
  They sounded quite a bit different than more conventional cables.   The stiffness was a little difficult to work with and the long wood connectors had a tendency to split.  But they were very good sounding cables, I ran a pair from my ARC SP9 into a B&K ST202 running Spendor SP1's.   Good stuff. 
   
  Does anyone remember what this was?   Any relation to Q-Audio?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Nope, no relation to Q.
   
  Now you've got me wondering what those cables were. Your description is ringing some faint bells, but I can't put my finger on 'em either.
   
  Might want to put that question up over at Audio Asylum in the General Asylum forum.
   
  se


----------



## Loevhagen

Came home from a vacation yesterday and found my new Q Audio LCD-2 aftermarket cable in the mailbox. It´s fit and finish is as expected from reading this thred; fantastic.  I bought it first and foremost for it´s custom length and feather weight parameters. Thanks Steve, for your swift process.
   
  Being an agnostic when it comes to cables and if it de facto alters the sound, I must say that the Q Audio cable puzzles me a bit. The sound, compared to the March/April stock cable of the LCD-2s, is perceived a tad more open and the music presentation is more ... eh ... liquid. The bass is however perceived being just less than the stock cable. I need more time to conclude (if I will ever will be able to conculde on cables).
   
  Bottom line: Happy with the purchase from Q Audio and now I can get tangled in the music instead of the long stock cable.  And I maybe revert with the need for an aftermarket cable to my HE-500 as well, since I´m not a fan of the newest stock cable (i.e. plug adapters, stiffness and length).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Came home from a vacation yesterday and found my new Q Audio LCD-2 aftermarket cable in the mailbox. It´s fit and finish is as expected from reading this thred; fantastic.  I bought it first and foremost for it´s custom length and feather weight parameters. Thanks Steve, for your swift process.
> 
> Being an agnostic when it comes to cables and if it de facto alters the sound, I must say that the Q Audio cable puzzles me a bit. The sound, compared to the March/April stock cable of the LCD-2s, is perceived a tad more open and the music presentation is more ... eh ... liquid. The bass is however perceived being just less than the stock cable. I need more time to conclude (if I will ever will be able to conculde on cables).
> 
> Bottom line: Happy with the purchase from Q Audio and now I can get tangled in the music instead of the long stock cable.  And I maybe revert with the need for an aftermarket cable to my HE-500 as well, since I´m not a fan of the newest stock cable (i.e. plug adapters, stiffness and length).


 

 I love discerning the difference in cables.  check back in after extended listening and post further impressions.


----------



## Loevhagen

Are you just pulling my leg, WA?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Are you just pulling my leg, WA?


 

 No i'm serious, can't wait to get my hands on some aftermarket cables to review.


----------



## scootermafia

Is everyone aware that Audez'e is now selling the leather headband upgrade ($100)?  It's standard on new production LCD-2s, it looks like.  I ordered one, as the stock headband is not as well padded.  The new leather band looks amazing.  
   
  Edit: looks like they sell 2 versions.  The leather headband costs $50 additional when purchased already on the headphones, and $100 after the fact to replace the foam headband.


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Is everyone aware that Audez'e is now selling the leather headband upgrade ($100)? [...]


 
   
  Yep!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Is everyone aware that Audez'e is now selling the leather headband upgrade ($100)?  It's standard on new production LCD-2s, it looks like.  I ordered one, as the stock headband is not as well padded.  The new leather band looks amazing.
> 
> Edit: looks like they sell 2 versions.  The leather headband costs $50 additional when purchased already on the headphones, and $100 after the fact to replace the foam headband.


 

 I'm using the leather headband now.  I like it better than the foam pad headband.


----------



## scootermafia

Cool.  I was a bit sad about the new driver update, wish I had it right now.  Has anyone received word about the cost to have the old drivers swapped out?


----------



## Loevhagen

My Q Audio Cable on the LCD-2s:


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> My Q Audio Cable on the LCD-2s:


 

  Looks great. Remember to pick them up before you mow the lawn.


----------



## Loevhagen

I was affraid to loose the Q-Audio cable in the grass, since the cable is soo tiny. That´s why I had them hooked to the Audeze´s.


----------



## MrQ

I don't think we realise how obsessed with this hobby some of us have become. Where photographing a pair of $1000 headphones on the grass is like 'hey, good pic'.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  random guy: Hey buddy what ya doin?
   
  me: I'm photographing my headphones on the grass.
   
  Rg: What you wan't to do that for?
   
  Me: Because the grass nicely sets off the natural tones of the wood. 
   
  rg: Whatever dude. _*backs away slowly_


----------



## alvin sawdust

Now now Q, I prefer my headphones on grass


----------



## MrQ

Hey Alvin, how's it hanging?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Great thanks mate. Got the LCD-2s in the end, just waiting for my Endorphin cable to come back from SAA reterminated for the Audez'e.
   
  Hows it with you, still enjoying your LCD-2s?


----------



## MrQ

Yeah I am. There's a lot talk about Rev 1 or 2. I'm not selling my Rev.1 and will be getting the HE-6 at the end of the week which will be
  powered from my vintage 185 wpc Marantz 2385. The LCD sounds sweet with it already. Really scales up well.


----------



## tink97

Afternoon everyone,
   
  I just wanted to mention that I just got my q audio cable for my LCD-2 and man I am really loving what I am hearing.  These things are really nice and super light I dont even feel like I have a cable on even.  That is the biggest surprise for me, its my first and only cable for my LCD-2.  
   
  Have a great one everyone
   
  Tink97


----------



## doglog

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the Q Audio cable to the ALO Reference 8 (silver/copper)?


----------



## Loevhagen

kwkarth I think?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> kwkarth I think?


 


  Actually I've heard the copper/silver ALO cable in their shop (32 Ohm Audio) but I have not had the opportunity to compare any other aftermarket cables to that one.  The radial chainmail I have is all copper.  ALO Audio Reference 8 copper.


----------



## doglog

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Actually I've heard the copper/silver ALO cable in their shop (32 Ohm Audio) but I have not had the opportunity to compare any other aftermarket cables to that one.  The radial chainmail I have is all copper.  ALO Audio Reference 8 copper.


 

 Do you have a preference between your copper Reference 8 and the Q Audio? If so, could you briefly explain why? Based on price and ergonomics, I'm leaning toward the Q Audio cable, but the ALO cable has so many positive reviews. It makes for a tough decision.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





doglog said:


> Do you have a preference between your copper Reference 8 and the Q Audio? If so, could you briefly explain why? Based on price and ergonomics, I'm leaning toward the Q Audio cable, but the ALO cable has so many positive reviews. It makes for a tough decision.


 

 They both sound great to my ears and I have a hardtime deciding which is better than the other.  Overall, I think the Q-Audio maybe is a little cleaner on busy passages, but I haven't done a double blind study...it's that close.  The aesthetics of the Q cable have me won over though, no contest.  Light as a feather, and as flexible as a wet noodle.  That's no exaggeration.  No microphonics either.  YMMV


----------



## Mr.Shadow

Just got my Q cable for the LCD-2 yesterday.
  The build quality and feel is excellent, I agree with kwkrth's comment about the comfort, it really is that good.
   
  In terms of sound quality I am a bit disappointed at the moment as OOTB I feel the sound became a bit darker and the bass is not as powerful nor as deep, other aspects seems to be about the same.
  On a positive note, I feel the music has become silky smooth and even sweet, which I really like.
  I had a brief time listening yesterday, will give it a more serious audition today.
   
  I hope this gets better with break in, has anyone observed any of this ?
   
  Here are some pics I took, enjoy:


----------



## olor1n

That cable looks great. Not the first mention of them affecting the bass though.


----------



## doglog

Quote: 





mr.shadow said:


> Here are some pics I took, enjoy:


 

 Great photos! Looking forward to any further impressions you might have.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mr.shadow said:


> Just got my Q cable for the LCD-2 yesterday.
> The build quality and feel is excellent, I agree with kwkrth's comment about the comfort, it really is that good.
> 
> In terms of sound quality I am a bit disappointed at the moment as OOTB I feel the sound became a bit darker and the bass is not as powerful nor as deep, other aspects seems to be about the same.
> ...


 
  I'm really interested to hear your further impressions.  I expected there to be reduced bass and impact, but was surprised to hear better bass definition and impact.  So it will be great to compare notes.


----------



## Equus

Interesting, I personally didn't notice any negative impact to the bass with the Q-Audio cable I have either.  Will be looking forward to more impressions.


----------



## flu_fighter

I have had the Q-Audio cable for a while, right off the bat, it does not sound that great. In fact, it kinda made the LCD2 sound quite ordinary.
   
  But after about 8 hours of running in, you will start to notice the sound opening up as well as the bass starting to get back its power.
   
  It does get better over time and also a lot more transparent as well.
  
  Quote: 





mr.shadow said:


> Just got my Q cable for the LCD-2 yesterday.
> The build quality and feel is excellent, I agree with kwkrth's comment about the comfort, it really is that good.
> 
> In terms of sound quality I am a bit disappointed at the moment as OOTB I feel the sound became a bit darker and the bass is not as powerful nor as deep, other aspects seems to be about the same.
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





flu_fighter said:


> I have had the Q-Audio cable for a while, right off the bat, it does not sound that great. In fact, it kinda made the LCD2 sound quite ordinary.
> 
> But after about 8 hours of running in, you will start to notice the sound opening up as well as the bass starting to get back its power.
> 
> It does get better over time and also a lot more transparent as well.


 
  How much time would you say it takes for the cable to finally reach it fullest performance?


----------



## rrahman

Does anyone have experience with the headphile.com cable upgrade?  I am interested just cuz its so crazy awesome lookin', but hesitant cause i haven heard feedback...


----------



## Hero Kid

Just got this email from Trevor at Norse Audio:
  Quote: 





> I would like to also let you know about our new conductor coming in about 3-weeks or so.
> 
> [size=x-small][size=medium][size=x-small]It will utilize a uniquely patterned cotton jacket around Litz up-occ conductors (up-occ with benefit of cotton dielectric properties).  It will have zero microphonics along with extreme light weight and flexibility.  Of course you also will have the choice of having our exotic wood splitter on the new cable as well.  If desired we can send you an email when it is available along with pictures at that time.  Prices will be a bit higher due to our lengthy development process, [/size][/size][/size]most likely starting at $189.99 (2.0m).
> 
> ...


 
   
  It sounds interesting to me. Is anyone else curious?


----------



## flu_fighter

I'd say maybe 20 - 30 hours. I can't say for sure as I was rolling tubes and power cables like a couple of days later.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How much time would you say it takes for the cable to finally reach it fullest performance?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Just got this email from Trevor at Norse Audio:
> 
> It sounds interesting to me. Is anyone else curious?


 

 I am. I really like the look of the Q Audio cable but the price quoted is well above what I can justify. I'll wait to see what Norse Audio develops.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Just got this email from Trevor at Norse Audio:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 
  Can somebody tell me what makes that different from the Q-Audio Black Magic Cable (besides the price) and how they are first when Steve Eddy's been doing this for a while?
  No offense to Trevor, I'm just curious how this might be different, better, or worse.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   




  -HK sends


----------



## scootermafia

Steve made type 2 litz copper cables in cotton jacketing first.  Trevor made litz OCC copper cables in cotton jacketing first.


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks, scootermafia!
   
  So Trevor's is not what you would call "Type 2" then?  Is there an advantage of one over the other?
   
  -HK sends


----------



## scootermafia

I don't know the design of Trevor's wire yet.  I just know that Steve uses the type 2 litz as per his website.  I can't comment either way, but you can look up the salient points of each cable's features and decide for yourself.


----------



## HK_sends

True enough.  I can do that...
   




  -HK sends


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm very happy with my Silver Dragon cable for LCD-2.  I got the convertible version where I can change adapters on the end so I can use it with a 4-pin XLR or my SR-71b amp.  It seems to open up the sound a little and improve transparency, clarity and detail a little - just a small nudge in the right direction.


----------



## K3cT

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm very happy with my Silver Dragon cable for LCD-2.  I got the convertible version where I can change adapters on the end so I can use it with a 4-pin XLR or my SR-71b amp.  It seems to open up the sound a little and improve transparency, clarity and detail a little - just a small nudge in the right direction.


 


  Seconding this. I love mine as well, seems to add that extra sparkle and airiness that are more than welcome with the LCD2. I wonder whether it will still work well with the Rev 2?


----------



## MacedonianHero

headphoneaddict said:


> I'm very happy with my Silver Dragon cable for LCD-2.  I got the convertible version where I can change adapters on the end so I can use it with a 4-pin XLR or my SR-71b amp.  It seems to open up the sound a little and improve transparency, clarity and detail a little - just a small nudge in the right direction.






k3ct said:


> Seconding this. I love mine as well, seems to add that extra sparkle and airiness that are more than welcome with the LCD2. I wonder whether it will still work well with the Rev 2?




I third this...my Silver Dragon is on it's way back from Drew at Moon Audio...I had him change the S.E. plug to a balanced setup with an additional balanced-to-single ended adapter. Now I can use them in balanced mode with my WA22 and SE with my Lyr. Not only does Drew make outstanding cables, he also offers outstanding customer service as well.


----------



## scootermafia

Fourth? I use the SD3 for travel with my LCD-2s, very nice sound and compact too.


----------



## dj nellie

I just got my Whiplash TWag v.2 cable a few days ago.  I was surprised to see that this cable is actually thinner than the TWag v.2 that Craig made for my Edition 8s last year.  I asked him about it, and he told me that the previous run of cables was thicker because he thought they might need the added strength.  But he decided that it was unnecessary, and told me there is no change in sound quality with the thinner cables.
   
  All other things (like cable material) being equal, is a thicker cable necessarily going to sound better?  Here are some pics of my LCD-2 cable and my Ed. 8 cable (the LCD-2 is black):
   

   

   
  I did some quick comparisons between my stock cable (latest version) and the TWag (which has maybe 15 hours on it).  The TWag seemed to give the LCD-2s a little more clarity and bass definition, but perhaps the expense of some bass weight and soundstage width. 
   
  Also, does anyone have thoughts on whether the type of XLR connector used makes a difference?  I notice that both the stock cable and the Q-Audio cable seem to use Rean, whereas Whiplash and ALO seem to be using the same XLR (distinguished mainly by the black "dot" button to unlock them):


----------



## Steve Eddy

Those with the black dot button are not all the same.
   
  It was Switchcraft that originally designed and patented what we now generically refer to as a "mini-XLR" and what Switchcraft calls their Tini QG. However the patents have since expired and copies of Switchcraft's original design are being made by a number of Asian manufacturers in Taiwan and mainland China. Switchcraft uses silver plated pins and contacts whereas all of the Asian-made plugs I've seen use gold plated contacts. I've compared the Switchcraft to the Calrad parts (which are made in Taiwan) and found them virtually identical in every way.
   
  As much as I love Switchcraft, I chose to use the REAN connectors because I really like their collet/chuck strain relief system (which is the same as used on Neutrik's XLR and TRS plugs). Of course this is really only of interest to manufacturers and makes no difference at all as far as the end user is concerned. Their drawback is that in my situation, I can only use them when two conductors are being used. When I need to wire up a mini-XLR with four, or need to use a male connector as REAN doesn't make one, I use the Switchcraft Tini QG's.
   
  se


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Fourth? I use the SD3 for travel with my LCD-2s, very nice sound and compact too.


 


   


  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I third this...my Silver Dragon is on it's way back from Drew at Moon Audio...I had him change the S.E. plug to a balanced setup with an additional balanced-to-single ended adapter. Now I can use them in balanced mode with my WA22 and SE with my Lyr. Not only does Drew make outstanding cables, he also offers outstanding customer service as well.


 


  Nice to read some positive remarks about a silver cable with LCD-2.
  I'm choosing an cable for it at the moment, am in doubt between silver and copper.
   
  Anybody who compared one silver one copper, of decent quality, with the LCD2's?


----------



## Vitor Teixeira

proglover said:


> Nice to read some positive remarks about a silver cable with LCD-2.
> I'm choosing an cable for it at the moment, am in doubt between silver and copper.
> 
> Anybody who compared one silver one copper, of decent quality, with the LCD2's?




X2

I'm also in the market for a LCD-2 cable, although I don't want to spent the crazy amount of money, like for example the Alo or SAA, they ask for it.
I'm leaning towards the Norse or the Q Audio (do they have an online store?) and does anybody knows what happened to aPureSound?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





vitor teixeira said:


> X2
> 
> I'm also in the market for a LCD-2 cable, although I don't want to spent the crazy amount of money, like for example the Alo or SAA, they ask for it.
> I'm leaning towards the Norse or the Q Audio (do they have an online store?) and does anybody knows what happened to aPureSound?


 
  For Q-Audio, just PM Steve Eddy who posted above.  He's in the middle of updating his site.  Aren't you, Steve?
   




  -HK sends
   
  P.S. Both Steve and Trevor at Norse are great guys to deal with...


----------



## grokit

Quote:  





> Both Steve and Trevor at Norse are great guys to deal with...


 
   
  Don't forget Peter at Double Helix, with his Molecule cable he completes the "big three" of affordable high-quality aftermarket headphone cable vendors. He is very easy to work with and his website works great.
   
  http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1


----------



## Proglover

I'm going with Peter's OCC silver cable. He's been a great guy and I'm looking forward to try his cable


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> He's in the middle of updating his site.  Aren't you, Steve?


 

 The middle? Are you kidding me? Hell, we don't even have the... OWWWWWWWWWWWW!
   
  Oh yeah, that's right. The middle. We're in the *middle* of updating the website. Yeah, that's the ticket... *rubbing shin*
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Now my foot hurts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Don't forget Peter at Double Helix, with his Molecule cable he completes the "big three" of affordable high-quality aftermarket headphone cable vendors. He is very easy to work with and his website works great.
> 
> http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1


 
  I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with him.  Truth is, most all of the folks that work so hard on these cables, amps, DACs, and headphones have been incredible to deal with.  If it weren't for Alex, Sankar, Jason (for me), and all the cable guys, I wouldn't have gone as far into this hobby as I have.  ...or spent as much as I have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Their personable service serves as the example all mainstream companies should follow.
   




  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Hey everyone,
   
  Steve Eddy has upgraded his Q-Audio Cables web site so you can order LCD-2 (and HiFiMAN HE) cables online!
   
  Just go to:
   
http://www.q-audio.com/
   
  and scroll down below his audio interconnects.  He's also offering adapters as well.
   




  -HK sends


----------



## Mr.Shadow

Looks cool Steve, keep it up.
  btw, Nice photos of the Cable w/ LCD-2


----------



## shamrock134

I've not been through the whole of this thread, but what sonic differences have people noticed with particular aftermarket cables compared to stock?
   
  I've got a Schiit Lyr on the way so would it be more worthwhile playing with tubes to tailor the sound and just replace the cable purely for ergonomic and aesthetic reasons?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I've not been through the whole of this thread, but what sonic differences have people noticed with particular aftermarket cables compared to stock?
> 
> I've got a Schiit Lyr on the way so would it be more worthwhile playing with tubes to tailor the sound and just replace the cable purely for ergonomic and aesthetic reasons?


 
  Maybe both.  It depends on what you'r after.  It depends upon your source.  It depends upon what material you listen to, etc.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> I've got a Schiit Lyr on the way so would it be more worthwhile playing with tubes to tailor the sound and just replace the cable purely for ergonomic and aesthetic reasons?


 
   
  I would upgrade the tube. The tube will always make more a difference than a cable. People agree that tubes make changes, that is not always the case with the cable. Upgrade the cable purely for ergonomic and aesthetic reasons and if you get a positive change with doing so, it is just icing on the cake.


----------



## scootermafia

With the tube rolling you're physically changing the output stages of your amp and actual circuitry; with some tubes they have a similar sound and you can scarcely know the difference - other times, the difference will be massively profound.  Cables are less noticeable than some tube upgrades, for sure.  I spent big on the single WE396 tube that was in my MHDT Havana tube DAC back when I still had it, and it was a very good decision.


----------



## shamrock134

Thanks.
   
  In that case is there a cable recommended that _won't_ make the bass any tighter/leaner/lower in quantity while looking nice and not being a dead weight like the stock?
   
  The Q-Audio or Double Helix Molecule look nice to me.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


shamrock134 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> In that case is there a cable recommended that _won't_ make the bass any tighter/leaner/lower in quantity while looking nice and not being a dead weight like the stock?
> 
> The Q-Audio or Double Helix Molecule look nice to me.


 
  I believe somebody suggested that the Q-Audio cable made bass leaner, but I haven't heard any reduction in bass at all.  I am using the r.2 LCD-2s and the bass extension sounds great.  I would say it's tighter in that there is more detail in the bass without muddines or flabbiness.  It still makes my teeth rattle.
   
  Call me quite happy with the Q-Audio cable...
   




  -HK sends


----------



## Loevhagen

I'm using the Q-Audio cable first and foremost for it's stealth mode.


----------



## shamrock134

There is just too many to choose from!
   
  I'm quite liking the idea of a silver cable for added brightness.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> There is just too many to choose from!
> 
> I'm quite liking the idea of a silver cable for added brightness.


 


 Peter from Double Helix (scootermafia) makes LCD-2 cables with 24awg solidcore silver. I ordered one a couple of days ago.


----------



## shamrock134

Quote: 





proglover said:


> Peter from Double Helix (scootermafia) makes LCD-2 cables with 24awg solidcore silver. I ordered one a couple of days ago.


 

 I was looking at that and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon. How much did it come to? It doesn't actually give you a price for the silver option.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I was looking at that and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon. How much did it come to? It doesn't actually give you a price for the silver option.


 


 I think the Silver Dragon 3 is 26awg stranded..
   
  Best to pm scootermafia about it, but I paid 135 usd extra (on top of the normal molecule price) for a 5 ft. silver one.
  Total price depends on your sleeving, termination etc.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> I believe somebody suggested that the Q-Audio cable made bass leaner, but I haven't heard any reduction in bass at all.  I am using the r.2 LCD-2s and the bass extension sounds great.  I would say it's tighter in that there is more detail in the bass without muddines or flabbiness.  It still makes my teeth rattle.
> 
> Call me quite happy with the Q-Audio cable...
> ...


 
  That's my experience as well.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> I'm using the Q-Audio cable first and foremost for it's stealth mode.


 

 Which is why the US State Department won't let us sell to North Korea and a number of other countries. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

I want to gather the 3 leading aftermarket cables for the LCD-2 and do a review work up.   Maybe the big three can send me loaners...


----------



## dj nellie

Is there a particular reason why Whiplash's TWag cables aren't getting as much mention in LCD2 cable threads?  I realize they're pricy, but every TWag I've owned has noticeably improved clarity (especially in the midrange and treble), and bass definition.  Also, Craig is a great guy to deal with and is usually willing to offer a fair deal if you're buying multiple cables.
   
  I'm really enjoying my TWag v.2 Eclipse.  I've gone back and forth a few times between it and the ADZ-5 cable, and the added transparency is pretty easily identifiable--especially in vocals.  However, I find that the sheath that he uses tends to rub against things and make noise, so Craig has agreed to remove it.
   
  Does anyone have thoughts on whether the difference in cable thickness shown in my previous pictures could have a significant impact on sound?  As for the mini-XLR, it looks silver-plated to me, but is there any other way to confirm that they're Switchcrafts?
   
  Here's another photo I took.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> Is there a particular reason why Whiplash's TWag cables aren't getting as much mention in LCD2 cable threads?  I realize they're pricy, but every TWag I've owned has noticeably improved clarity (especially in the midrange and treble), and bass definition.  Also, unlike other cable manufacturers I've dealt with, Craig has been very willing to negotiate a fair price--the listed prices aren't always set in stone.
> 
> I'm really enjoying my TWag v.2 Eclipse.  I've gone back and forth a few times between it and the ADZ-5 cable, and the added transparency is pretty easily identifiable--especially in vocals.  However, I find that the sheath that he uses tends to rub against things and make noise, so Craig has agreed to remove it.
> 
> Does anyone have thoughts on whether the difference in cable thickness shown in my previous pictures could have a significant impact on sound?  As for the mini-XLR, it looks silver-plated to me, but is there any other way to confirm that they're Switchcrafts?


 

 Theoretically and experientially, at the currents and wire gauges we're dealing with here, it shouldn't really matter.  I do think there's positive technical argument in favor of a litz type 2 approach.   If you don't happen to agree, that's ok.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dj nellie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As for the mini-XLR, it looks silver-plated to me, but is there any other way to confirm that they're Switchcrafts?


 

 Externally, the copies I've seen are identical to the Swtichcrafts.
   
  Have you asked Craig?
   
  se


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> There is just too many to choose from!
> 
> I'm quite liking the idea of a silver cable for added brightness.


 

 I would think that silver or SPC might be more appropriate for rev.1, while pure copper could be a better bet for the rev.2.
   
  Having said that I am enjoying the cr@p out of my rev.1 with a “Nucleotide” stranded OCC copper Double Helix Molecule cable


----------



## KingStyles

I did the q audio cable and changed my interconnects from copper to silver to get that added highs and air. It probably would have been cheaper to do it the other way around.


----------



## dj nellie

I confirmed with Craig that the mini-XLRs he uses are Switchcraft (in case anyone is wondering).  WA, I hope any cable comparison you do will include the TWag?  Who are your "Big 3"?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> I confirmed with Craig that the mini-XLRs he uses are Switchcraft (in case anyone is wondering).  WA, I hope any cable comparison you do will include the TWag?  Who are your "Big 3"?


 

 I don't know who the big 3 are.  I was hoping they would step forward and send me some cables!      someone make a list of current popular cables so I can solicit.


----------



## Steve Eddy

se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> se


 


  what about begging?


----------



## olor1n

Steve, any pics of your cable terminated in 4 pin xlr? Contemplating going that route in case I go balanced in future. I'd have to get a 1/4" adapter made up at the same time to accommodate my setup at the moment. How much length would the adapter add?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Steve, any pics of your cable terminated in 4 pin xlr? Contemplating going that route in case I go balanced in future. I'd have to get a 1/4" adapter made up at the same time to accommodate my setup at the moment. How much length would the adapter add?


 

 You've got a PM.
   
  se


----------



## Choochoo

Thanks guys for very helpful information.
   
  After going through this thread, I decided to get a replacement cable from Q-Audio ... and the now the hardest part is waiting for it to arrive.


----------



## Steve Eddy

*leans back in his chair, puts his feet up on his desk as he twiddles his thumbs and stares out the window* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Wedge

You better get your butt making that cable, buddy!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wedge said:


> You better get your butt making that cable, buddy!


 
  He's relaxing cause it's already on its way...right Steve?  ...RIGHT, Steve? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> He's relaxing cause it's already on its way...right Steve?  ...RIGHT, Steve?


 
   
  Mffffmlflfl... huh... wha...?
   
  Oh, yeah yeah, sure sure. I probably already sent them.
   
  *wanders off to get some Windex to remove the cat nose smudges he noticed on the window earlier*
   
  se


----------



## Choochoo

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> *leans back in his chair, puts his feet up on his desk as he twiddles his thumbs and stares out the window*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's exactly what I would do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hope to get the cable around the same time as my Traformatic Experience Head One amp.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





choochoo said:


> That's exactly what I would do.


 

 Always nice to meet a fellow slacker.
   
  Quote: 





> Hope to get the cable around the same time as my Traformatic Experience Head One amp.


 
   
  Shouldn't be any problem. You'll be receiving the Head One as a Christmas present, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> Always nice to meet a fellow slacker.
> 
> 
> Shouldn't be any problem. You'll be receiving the Head One as a Christmas present, right?
> ...


 
  Better let him know Christmas of _what year! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Better let him know Christmas of _what year!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  2012 of course! Sheeesh, Christmas 2011 is just five months away. I'm not Speedy Gonzales.
   
  se


----------



## Choochoo

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Better let him know Christmas of _what year!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha ... Just said something along that line to my kid when he wanted an upgrade from DSi to 3DS


----------



## shamrock134

I've just ordered a Double Helix Macromolecule for my LCD-2.
   
  I was trying to decide between a Double Helix Molecule, Norse Audio or Q-Audio cable, but in the end settled on the Macromolecule.
   
  I'm sure I'll be left wondering if I should have gone for silver instead of copper, but I couldn't justify the cost of a silver cable right now.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Using a Stefan Audioart Endorphin on my LCD-2s and it just takes you another step to being in the room. Granted it is an expensive cable but I am very pleased.


----------



## Windsor

Hey guys,
   
  I currently have the rev2 LCD-2 with stock cable and as I recently posted in the main LCD-2 thread, If I could have the rev2 sounding like my 'ideal' headphone, it'd probably sound like the rev2  with a less bright, more natural tone, closer to the rev1; with the same laid back sonic force as the rev2; with more treble extension and less boomy bass than the rev1 (in retrospect, what I perceived as boominess could have been caused by the forwardness of the rev1).
   
  So, even though I am very grateful for what I have (rev2 with stock cable), I was wondering if the Silver Dragon cable and the rev1 LCD-2 would be my ideal sonic signature - though I have heard that the Silver Dragon makes the LCD-2 rev1 sound a little dry - and whilst I won't know that until I've heard it with my own ears, could anyone recommend another cable that seem to create the LCD-2 sound I'm looking for relative to what I've described above?
   
  Many thanks,
  Windsor


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I currently have the rev2 LCD-2 with stock cable and as I recently posted in the main LCD-2 thread, If I could have the rev2 sounding like my 'ideal' headphone, it'd probably sound like the rev2  with a less bright, more natural tone, closer to the rev1; with the same laid back sonic force as the rev2; with more treble extension and less boomy bass than the rev1 (in retrospect, what I perceived as boominess could have been caused by the forwardness of the rev1).
> 
> ...


 

 Did you ever consider the boominess you heard was in the recordings you were listening to?


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Did you ever consider the boominess you heard was in the recordings you were listening to?


 
   
  Yes, though I did listen to a wide range of recordings, from those that to me sound (bass-wise) thin e.g. Donald Fagen's _The Nightfly, _to recordings that to me sound slightly bloated at times e.g. Bob Dylan's _Modern Times._
   
  I'm very grateful for what I have with the rev2 and am going to enjoy it by listening to music. I'm also doing what I can to ensure that my equipment sounds the way I want it to (hence my question). But paradoxically, I want my equipment to sound 'invisible' so it gets out of the music's way, which often happens when I stop thinking accept the headphone and just listen to the music.
   
  Your input is appreciated.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Yes, though I did listen to a wide range of recordings, from those that to me sound (bass-wise) thin e.g. Donald Fagen's _The Nightfly, _to recordings that to me sound slightly bloated at times e.g. Bob Dylan's _Modern Times._
> 
> I'm very grateful for what I have with the rev2 and am going to enjoy it by listening to music. I'm also doing what I can to ensure that my equipment sounds the way I want it to (hence my question). But paradoxically, I want my equipment to sound 'invisible' so it gets out of the music's way, which often happens when I stop thinking accept the headphone and just listen to the music.
> 
> Your input is appreciated.


 
  You might want to give the Q-audio cable a listen.  Let us know what you think.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> You might want to give the Q-audio cable a listen.  Let us know what you think.


 

 I have a pair of Q-Cables on their way to my hovel right now.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have a pair of Q-Cables on their way to my hovel right now.


 

 Uh... there may be a delay.
   
  I misread your address and wrote shanty instead of hovel.
   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Hmm,  if those rich folk up in the shanties get a hold of those cables you might be getting a flood of new orders!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Uh... there may be a delay.
> 
> I misread your address and wrote shanty instead of hovel.
> 
> se


 
  Slacker.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hmm,  if those rich folk up in the shanties get a hold of those cables you might be getting a flood of new orders!


 

 I doubt it. Seeing as you couldn't afford a new set of cables, I had to send you a trade-in that was previously owned by an ablutophobe. Why do you think I paid you to take them off my hands?
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Slacker.


 
   
  Slacker? Naaaah. Just lazy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> I doubt it. Seeing as you couldn't afford a new set of cables, I had to send you a trade-in that was previously owned by an ablutophobe. Why do you think I paid you to take them off my hands?
> 
> se


 

 You do trade ins?  I have some excellent vintage lamp cord.  Very tarnished and broken in. 70's vintage


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You do trade ins?  I have some excellent vintage lamp cord.  Very tarnished and broken in. 70's vintage


 
   
  Naaaah. That stuff doesn't hold a candle to my 1939 lamp cord. The_ original_ zip cord.
   

   
   
  Yummy!
   
  se


----------



## IPodPJ

100 ft. for $1.20.  If only I could get my wire for that cheap.... Jesus....


----------



## Equus

Yeah, but in 1939 the lamp itself was probably something like 25 cents.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





equus said:


> Yeah, but in 1939 the lamp itself was probably something like 25 cents.


 


  It was the connecting wall plug that really made the difference in radiant light quality.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> 100 ft. for $1.20.  If only I could get my wire for that cheap.... Jesus....


 

 Adjusted for inflation, that $1.20 would be $18.63 in 2010 dollars. You can get 100 feet of modern zip cord for considerably less than that.
   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

I want a lamp LCD-2 cable?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I want a lamp LCD-2 cable?


 

 Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CPwOOK4nEM


----------



## Loevhagen

A bt of topic maybe (and maybe not). The Q Audio cable I bought to my LCD-2s is first class, so I ordered the same cable to the HiFiMAN as well. Thumbs-up for the (stealth) Q Audio cable.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> A bt of topic maybe (and maybe not). The Q Audio cable I bought to my LCD-2s is first class, so I ordered the same cable to the HiFiMAN as well. Thumbs-up for the (stealth) Q Audio cable.


 
   
  How does the Q Audio change the sound of the LCD-2 rev.2?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windsor said:


> How does the Q Audio change the sound of the LCD-2 rev.2?


 


  Q Audio cables in the house.  Impressions to follow later this week.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Q Audio cables in the house.  Impressions to follow later this week.


 
   
  I wonder if they'll make you go


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Adjusted for inflation, that $1.20 would be $18.63 in 2010 dollars. You can get 100 feet of modern zip cord for considerably less than that.
> 
> se


 

 Yes, but I don't think any (boutique) after-market cable manufacturer is using zip cord, although I could be wrong. 
   
  And we're not in 2010.  We're in 2011 and the dollar has plummeted even more this year.


----------



## grokit

Relative to what? Last I checked the Euro and the Yen were doing pretty poorly as well.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> And we're not in 2010.  We're in 2011 and the dollar has plummeted even more this year.


 
   
  Yeah, but the inflation calculator I used only goes to 2010 as they use the Statistical Abstract of the United States as their source.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Ok, found one that's more current (July 15, 2011). That $1.20 would be $19.49.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Yes, but *I don't think any (boutique) after-market cable manufacturer is using zip cord,* although I could be wrong.
> And we're not in 2010.  We're in 2011 and the dollar has plummeted even more this year.


 

 If they were, they certainly would not call it "zip cord."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I have my suspicions...


----------



## Loevhagen

It's stealth mode affects my placebo to perceive it a bit more open than the stock cable. The rest of the equation, I'll hand over to WA.
  Quote: 





windsor said:


> How does the Q Audio change the sound of the LCD-2 rev.2?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Relative to what? Last I checked the Euro and the Yen were doing pretty poorly as well.


 


  Well against the Canadian dollar for sure. It's making buying gear from the US quite affordable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> It's stealth mode affects my placebo to perceive it a bit more open than the stock cable. The rest of the equation, I'll hand over to WA.


 

 Starting my comparison tonight!


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> If they were, they certainly would not call it "zip cord."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The idea of using zip cord, which just means an insulator that you can pull apart, would actually work well for many purposes in our hobby, including headphone cables.  It wouldn't work for many geometries though, or work well with certain insulation materials.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well against the Canadian dollar for sure. It's making buying gear from the US quite affordable.


 

 We here in the U.S. aren't too happy about it.  We're not allowed to discuss politics here though.


----------



## KingStyles

I will be interested in what you find wa since I havent done a full comparison myself.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Well against the Canadian dollar for sure. It's making buying gear from the US quite affordable.


 
   
  Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> We here in the U.S. aren't too happy about it.  We're not allowed to discuss politics here though.


 


 I don't have a problem with it. Politics aside, from an economic standpoint Canada has their crap together compared to their neighbor.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I don't have a problem with it. Politics aside, from an economic standpoint Canada has their crap together compared to their neighbor.


 
   
  Greenland's not doing THAT bad, are they?
   
  se


----------



## grokit

lol, to the South


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> lol, to the South


 

 Oh. Gotcha. 
   
  I always thought Nova Scotia was part of Canada.
   
  My bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Greenland's not doing THAT bad, are they?
> 
> se


 

 Seriously, you didn't understand his implication of the U.S.?


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh. Gotcha.
> 
> I always thought Nova Scotia was part of Canada.
> 
> ...


 

 Huh?  Steve, are you smoking some funny stuff?
   
  You must be messing with him.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Seriously, you didn't understand his implication of the U.S.?


 


   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Huh?  Steve, are you smoking some funny stuff?
> 
> You must be messing with him.


 
   
  C'mon, give me just a little credit, will ya, Phil?
   
  se


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


ipodpj said:


> Huh?  Steve, are you smoking some funny stuff?


 

 Probability is high.  It is known.


----------



## Equus

Steve?  Messing with someone?  Nah...couldn't be!
   
  <_<
   
  >_>
   
  <_<
   
  Dang...I almost said that with a straight face.
   
  A little more on the original topic of the thread, I'm now considering buying another pair of cables to go with my second pair of LCD-2s.  The old 8 wire ALO cable is a little heavy to be wearing for a while at my desktop computer, which is where the second set of cans would be.  They didn't bother me too much when I was using them with my other rig while lying down, but sitting up it's not the most comfy thing.


----------



## Loevhagen

As long as SE manages to assemble and ship the Q-Audio cable ordered 3 days ago for my HiFiMAN, I'm cool.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> As long as SE manages to assemble and ship the Q-Audio cable ordered 3 days ago for my HiFiMAN, I'm cool.


 

 That's a nice set-up for a smartass reply. Unfortunately any mention of drugs, or anything having to do with drugs is strictly prohibited here (unless you name your product after a drug of course), so you'll just have to use your imagination. 
   
  se


----------



## Loevhagen

Drug? Music is addictive enough. So far it's actually legal, but there are however those doing some Loundness War that I've heard of. Unsure about their motives though.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Drug? Music is addictive enough. So far it's actually legal, but there are however those doing some Loundness War that I've heard of. Unsure about their motives though.


 

 The Loudness War is funded by big pharma (pills for tinitus) and hearing aid manufacturers.
   
  se


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> C'mon, give me just a little credit, will ya, Phil?
> 
> se


 

 With you I never know.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh. Gotcha.
> 
> I always thought Nova Scotia was part of Canada.
> 
> ...


 


  Nova Scotia is part of Canada.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Nova Scotia is part of Canada.


 
   
  Oh...
   
  Then what the hell's he talking about? Mexico?
   
  se


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh...
> 
> Then what the hell's he talking about? Mexico?
> 
> se


 

 This is why I said you must be smoking something.  I figured you were obviously joking if you didn't think Nova Scotia was in Canada.  You really didn't?
   
  He was talking about his neighbors, the United States!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> The Loudness War is funded by big pharma (pills for tinitus) and hearing aid manufacturers.
> 
> se


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> The Loudness War is funded by big pharma (pills for tinitus) and hearing aid manufacturers.
> 
> se


 

 Don't forget the American Sign Language Teachers Association.
   
   
   
Quote:


ipodpj said:


> This is why I said you must be smoking something.  I figured you were obviously joking if you didn't think Nova Scotia was in Canada.  You really didn't?
> 
> He was talking about his neighbors, the United States!


 

 He's totally messing with you.​


----------



## Theogenes

Don't want to jump right into the middle of the geography lesson here, but I have a couple of quick things I'd like to share! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've been on a bit of a spendy kick here on my audio goodies recently (new DAC, new preamp, 3 new headphone amps, 3 new sets of cans, 4 different headphone cables, etc), and among the loot I've managed to accumulate, I've snagged a set of Whiplash TWag v2, Norse Audio 8 connector, and Q Audio cables for my LCD-2s. In the process of piling all this stuff up, I've had the pleasure of speaking to several different people in the audio community, two of whom have been mentioned in this thread, and I'd like to pass along my experiences. 
   
  Trevor at Norse was kind enough to answer a number of my (admittedly noobish) questions in an email exchange we had while I was trying to determine which cable would be best for my setup. Every single time I'd send him a question, he wouldn't just answer it-- he'd reply with a lengthy explanation of whatever I was asking him about, links to other sources of information, and long passages he'd copied from elsewhere and pasted to help me along my way. He was absolutely as helpful as he could have possibly been, and I very much  appreciated his patience and generosity with his time and knowledge. He's a true gentleman!!
   
  I also worked with Steve Eddy at Q Audio about getting new cables for two of my cans and ended up deciding to try a pair for my LCD-2s to begin with. As you can DEFINITELY tell from this thread, this guy is a BLAST to deal with and obviously has a great time doing what he's doing 



.  We spoke a few times via PM, exchanged a few Monty Python references, and after he was kind enough to send me some samples of the various sheathing he had, he shipped over a new cable and an adapter for me. He shot me the tracking number, and I eagerly awaited getting my hands on these cables that everyone keeps talking about! Unfortunately, due to a minor mixup, the cables were delivered right on time-- to a house 3.5 hours away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The neighborhood they were in isn't bad, but there are TONS of kids around there, and the temptation of a package sitting on a doormat for the next week or so would probably be more temptation than your typical hormone-addled teenage brain could handle, so I figured it's time to make an insurance claim of some kind.
   
  I shot Steve a message to let him know what happened, and to ask how he had insured the cables. In no time flat, I had a message back from Steve-- saying that he was having another pair made right that very second, that they would be shipped out Express that same day, and that I would have them _the very next day_. No ifs, ands, or buts-- just absolute on-the-spot resolution of my issue with nary a moment's hesitation. I was completely floored!! You simply do not see that kind of service anymore, and I was incredibly impressed. I am now in possession of a sweet-lookin' pair of black and black-with-red-tracers balanced cables, and I couldn't be happier with the entire interaction!!
   
  I haven't been able to really do much in the way of comparisons yet (and my system keeps changing around too much for my opinion to be particularly worthwhile at the moment), so I couldn't tell you which cable sounds best in my setup. (Hopefully one day I'll have some time to sit down, compare 'em, and do a quick write-up for you guys!) But I can say, definitively, that Trevor and Steve both have been some of the finest examples of customer service I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with in _any_ context or company. It's people like this who make our little corner of the world a true community and not just another megadollar industry. I am overwhelmingly appreciative of the attitude and personal care that I've been given. 
   
  Steve and Trevor-- Thank you for all that you do, and for making utter audio novices like myself feel right at home here. If every company could have one quarter of your understanding of the importance of the customer experience, we'd be out of the recession in a d@mn week 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And now, back to the MUSIC!!!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Thank you for the very kind words, Theogenes. And may I say it was a pleasure doing business with you as well.
   
  se


----------



## olor1n

Reconsidering my setup at the moment, but am ready to pull the trigger on a cable in the meantime. Not sure if I'll go balanced in future, so I'm inclined to get a cable terminated in 4 pin xlr and just get an adapter to 1/4". I assume there won't be any compromise in sound if I elect to stay single ended and just use the balanced cable with the 1/4" adapter constantly attached?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Reconsidering my setup at the moment, but am ready to pull the trigger on a cable in the meantime. Not sure if I'll go balanced in future, so I'm inclined to get a cable terminated in 4 pin xlr and just get an adapter to 1/4". I assume there won't be any compromise in sound if I elect to stay single ended and just use the balanced cable with the 1/4" adapter constantly attached?


 
  I'm working on the Q cable impression right now.  Wake Steve up and order it.  He's probably in his pajamas, made out of cotton I would imagine.


----------



## olor1n

It'll be ordered. Just deciding on termination type.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> It'll be ordered. Just deciding on termination type.


 

 What color?


----------



## olor1n

Black. Why? What color has best sq?


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Black. Why? What color has best sq?


 


  Red... duh it goes faster?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Red... duh it goes faster?


 

 White with red trim for Speed...

  ...Racer, that is


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Red... duh it goes faster?


 

 Yeah, but you're more likely to get pulled over by the cops. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Loevhagen

The Q audio cable is so speedy that I've had a ticket already. Ticket to audio heaven that is.


----------



## tme110

That's what I did and I'm happy with it.  I like the fact thatI can go ballanced at any time.

  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Reconsidering my setup at the moment, but am ready to pull the trigger on a cable in the meantime. Not sure if I'll go balanced in future, so I'm inclined to get a cable terminated in 4 pin xlr and just get an adapter to 1/4". I assume there won't be any compromise in sound if I elect to stay single ended and just use the balanced cable with the 1/4" adapter constantly attached?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> The Q audio cable is so speedy that I've had a ticket already. Ticket to audio heaven that is.


 

 That's fine for you. But I'm really getting tired of the relatives you guys leave behind here on Earth filing wrongful death lawsuits against me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Red... duh it goes faster?


 


  Wow...I just had Gorkamorka flashbacks.  When my audio hobby crosses over into my previous life of working at a game/hobby center...


----------



## Loevhagen

Ah. I always thought the small print involved was to protect business. When I come to think of it, I really didn't understand it, so I'll just keep on truckin'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> That's fine for you. But I'm really getting tired of the relatives you guys leave behind here on Earth filing wrongful death lawsuits against me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


olor1n said:


> Reconsidering my setup at the moment, but am ready to pull the trigger on a cable in the meantime. Not sure if I'll go balanced in future, so I'm inclined to get a cable terminated in 4 pin xlr and just get an adapter to 1/4". I assume there won't be any compromise in sound if I elect to stay single ended and just use the balanced cable with the 1/4" adapter constantly attached?


 

 For my Q-Audio HE-6 cables, I had them terminated to 4-pin XLR and then I got a whole bunch of adapters (XLR to speaker taps, XLR to 1/4" TRS, XLR to 2x 3-pin XLR).  Works great.


----------



## Loevhagen

XLR to speaker taps is not an option on the home page, but actually available to order? If I only knew that 6 days ago...I could have blown my HE-500 to audio nirvana.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Black. Why? What color has best sq?


 

 get a clear color, it's more transparent.   If that's possible.   Got to bring my dog to the vet so I have to delay my post till later on...


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> get a clear color, it's more transparent.   If that's possible.   Got to bring my dog to the vet so I have to delay my post till later on...


 
  LOL, I saw right through that one...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm working on the Q cable impression right now.  Wake Steve up and order it.  He's probably in his pajamas, made out of cotton I would imagine.


 
  Where do you think he gets his sleeving from? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> LOL, I saw right through that one...


 

 Good one


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> XLR to speaker taps is not an option on the home page, but actually available to order? If I only knew that 6 days ago...I could have blown my HE-500 to audio nirvana.


 

 Yeah.  Just e-mail the dude.  He'll do it up.
   

   

   

   

   

   
  Red = (R)
  White = (L)
  Silver tracer = (+)
  No tracer = (-)

  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> LOL, I saw right through that one...


 

 Well played, ser.


----------



## WarriorAnt

When my 3 meter headphone cable from Q Audio Cables arrived in the mail and I opened it I was surprised to find just how lightweight the cable felt as I held it in my hand.  Lighter and more flexible than any cable I have ever experienced.  Replacing the Audeze stock cable with the Q proved to be the ultimate in ergonomic enhancement. No longer did I feel like I had a small hose running from my head down my chest through the air to my rig like a cable on a suspension bridge.  Well, at least thats what the stock cable felt like once I replaced it with the softer more flexible Q cable.  Ergonomically the Q disappears when you use it. You simply do not realize it is on your LCD's while you are listening to music.  You can place it anyway you want and it will stay there and not become an insistent intrusion on your listening experience.  The Q is worth it just for that pleasure alone. 
   
  But pleasant and practical ergonomics is just a side benefit that comes with the cable, the real value is the impressive sonic performance of the cable itself.   I was not expecting any noticeable improvement in sonic quality with my LCDs by switching out the stock cable and I was very surprised and impressed when I did. The first attribute that I noticed right away was the overall CLARITY of the signal the Q delivers to the LCD.  Upgrading to the Q cable allows the LCD to be more of what it already is. The stock cable is definitely holding the LCD back acting in many ways as a filter on the signal.  After 2 days of burn in and then 3 more days of comparison I found the stock cable to be smearing the finer detail within the music. The stock cable was adding a small amount of congestion and a bit of hardness to the more dynamic passages, especially in the upper region, low level detail was slightly soft and a bit more defocused, and a veil was impeding the overall transparency of the music.  
   
  The artifacts created by the stock cable are not so readily apparent until you insert the Q into the sonic equation. With the Q there is more transparency to the music at hand, everything in the sonic presentation is cleaner and clearer and adds up to the one word that kept coming to mind, Clarity.   This clarity brings improvements in all areas of reproduction for the LCD to prove its Ortho stuff.  Detail is more precise and has better separation but it is not analytical, edged or artificial, it's simply clean, transparent, smooth and cohesive.  Because the detail is more clearly defined and presented, smaller, softer low level inner detail gives the soundfield a deeper sense of depth and dimension, this creates better definition overall in the context of the soundfield and leads to better imaging.  Rendering of the smallest detail is a delight with the Q, they are exciting to discover, bringing you closer to the music. One of the improvements the r.2 has over the r.1 I feel is its ability to better layer the detail in the soundfield and it does an even finer job using the Q cable. It is even easier to hear into the space of the sound field in a recording.  
   
   The Q opens up the soundstage, the clarity of the detail allows for more air around the instruments, there is more of a palpable feel to them and an increased realism.  There is more precise tighter imaging and more ambient detail.  It is as if the Q is simply getting out of the way of the overall signal and letting it pass unimpeded whereas the stock cable is to some degree adding a filtering signature to the signal.
   
  The Q exhibits excellent control over dynamic passages, transients hold together with no break up or restriction, whereas with the stock cable congestion seems to be the outcome of some type of dynamic restriction, more often in the upper region.  High energy transients with the Q are portrayed with a clean effortless deliverance.  Cymbals have a shimmer that is clean, solid, and finely detailed adding to their realism,  whereas the stock cable portrays a softer less defined type of detail which for me robs a little bit of the excitement and realism.  There is no sense of the slight smearing of the detail with the Q as there seems to be with the stock cable.  Chimes, shakers, bells, cymbals are all more realistic and vibrant, again due to that little bit of extra detail coming through.
   
  With the Q I found instruments such as drums to have more dynamic impact. More tightness to their surface, this being the outcome of the very clarity of detail the Q allows the LCD's to receive.  The black background in which the musical setting is presented seems blacker now with the Q than the stock cable. Voices come out of the background and seem more realistic and solid.  Piano is rendered with clearer transients and cleaner harmonic detail and control.  Bass has a bit more dynamic definition and palpable sense than the stock cable with a bit more detail and a touch less bloat. Some may think the less bloat description to mean less bass. It does not. The bass is not negatively effected, if anything it is a bit cleaner.  
   
  The LCD's are even more exciting now with the Q cable than they were before with the stock cable.   Some of the differences I experienced between the two cables can are noticeable right away and some are less noticeable but become more apparent and more finely substantial as you listen and experience the Q cable with time.  For instance the clarity of the cable is noticeable right way, it leads to the discovery of all the other benefits the Q has to offer the LCD.  Increased transparency, a more open soundstage, better layering, more realism from the cleaner less veiled more finely defined detail. It is a discovery of better, cleaner, signal transfer that continues on as you play more of the tunes you are familiar with and with each tune your appreciation will grow.  That is what happened with me. The more I listen the more the smallest improvements became apparent and began to add up into a more exciting experience. 
   
  With the Q Cable you get better ergonomics over the stock cable and you will extend the LCD experience to another level of refinement.


----------



## Buttsack

I'm going to order my LCD-2 and Apex Peak/Volcano amp this week. Is silver or copper better for a hybrid amp? I don't mind paying the extra for silver if it makes a big difference.

 At the start of this thread there is a lot of mention about the* Silver ALO cable *and *Moon Silver Dragon cable* but now in the last 10 pages all I read is talk about the *Q Audio copper cable*. *Has anyone listened to all 3 cables? *It just seems like people are trying to sell the Q Audio cable and I haven't read any comparisons.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


warriorant said:


> *SNIP*
> 
> With the Q Cable you get better ergonomics over the stock cable and you will extend the LCD experience to another level of refinement.


 
  I could have told you that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   




  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Thanks WA for the thorough review.  The Norse cable has been excellent for me but it's a cable that I definitely has a tendency to snake around itself.  
 If anyone has experience with the Q cable and Norse cable let me know your experience.  
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You simply do not realize it is on your LCD's while you are listening to music.  You can place it anyway you want and it will stay there and not become an insistent intrusion on your listening experience.  The Q is worth it just for that pleasure alone.


----------



## KingStyles

I heard it was light but was also surprised when I received mine at how light and flexible it is. The best description is it is like thin round shoelaces which I know someone else reference to earlier. As far as sound goes, I just plugged it in and listened and didnt worry about if it made a difference or not. Thanks for the review WA, now I know the improvement I received since I didnt really do much of a comparison.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Thanks WA for the thorough review.  The Norse cable has been excellent for me but it's a cable that I definitely has a tendency to snake around itself.
> If anyone has experience with the Q cable and Norse cable let me know your experience.


 


  Yup, I extensively auditioned the Norse cable (both 4 and 8 conductor) before buying the Q cable.  I have Rev.1 LCD-2's and I appreciated the increase in resolution that both Norse cables and Q cables seem to provide.  I can tell you that both were an improvement over the stock cable, since I listened to the Norse for a week, then went back, then listened to the 8-conductor for a week and went back then tried comparing the 4 vs. 8 for while, and finally got the Q for a week and went back to stock again for a week.  No side-by-side for Norse vs. Q, but not much time in between.  Nevertheless, i don't share WA's skill at exactly remembering sound signatures, so you'll have to take my comments with the appropriate grains of salt.
   
  I found the Q especially notable for its clarity in the treble regions and upper midrange (especially on trumpet and flute and instruments with a brassy edge, where it was especially faithful, even delivering that slightly shrieky sound of the piccolo).  Mozart's Horn Concertos have never sounded better on my rig with the LCD-2's.  By contrast, I slightly preferred the Norse 8-conductor on the bass, especially deep organ notes and tympani (think, for instance, the storm sequence in Britten's "Peter Grimes").  I felt the Norse had more impact, but the Q may have had more detail/clarity in the bass.  Again, texture-wise, I felt the harmonics of a double bassoon were relayed with more fidelity by the Q, but the bass guitar had slightly more "drive" with the Norse.  So the bass was a wash for me, with points awarded to all players and no clear win.  In the midrange, I love the LCD-2's for vocals, and here I felt that the Q's were a little more faithful to what I remembered some of my favorite singers sounding like in concert, that is, the tonality of their voices was just right.  I think the Norse were equally good, and clearly much better than the stock cable.  I would have been quite happy with the Norse and never looked back, if Keven (kwkarth) hadn't talked me into trying the Q's.
   
  The Q's have it all over the Norse for comfort.  In the end, that's what decided me.  I don't think the SQ was different enough for me to decide on that basis, and if I already owned the Norse, I certainly wouldn't abandon them for the Q's, just because of a slightly different presentation.  They're really remarkable on their own.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> <clip>
> But pleasant and practical ergonomics is just a side benefit that comes with the cable, the real value is the impressive sonic performance of the cable itself.   I was not expecting any noticeable improvement in sonic quality with my LCDs by switching out the stock cable and I was very surprised and impressed when I did. The first attribute that I noticed right away was the overall CLARITY of the signal the Q delivers to the LCD.  Upgrading to the Q cable allows the LCD to be more of what it already is. The stock cable is definitely holding the LCD back acting in many ways as a filter on the signal.  <clip>
> 
> With the Q Cable you get better ergonomics over the stock cable and you will extend the LCD experience to another level of refinement.


 

 Thanks WA for your thorough evaluation.  I appreciate all the time you put into listening and detecting the differences in such detail.  Kudos!
   
  I agree, I was not expecting any real difference either.  I'm not much of a cable believer, having done a lot of DIY experimentation with different types.  So I was fairly surprised (and horrified) to find that I strongly preferred the Q cables after a week of use, when i went back to the stock cables for a while, just to see if I could really tell the difference.  Boy did I.  But I certainly don't have the words for it as you so clearly laid them out above.
   
  Nice job!


----------



## WNBC

Awesome DE, thanks for the comparisons, I appreciate it, I haven't gone thru this entire thread yet.  As I was telling WA, maybe the Q will be a stocking stuffer for me down the road but keeping the Norse for the meantime.  Norse gets the job done nicely.  
  
  Quote: 





deadears said:


> Yup, I extensively auditioned the Norse cable (both 4 and 8 conductor) before buying the Q cable.  I have Rev.1 LCD-2's and I appreciated the increase in resolution that both Norse cables and Q cables seem to provide.  I can tell you that both were an improvement over the stock cable, since I listened to the Norse for a week, then went back, then listened to the 8-conductor for a week and went back then tried comparing the 4 vs. 8 for while, and finally got the Q for a week and went back to stock again for a week.  No side-by-side for Norse vs. Q, but not much time in between.  Nevertheless, i don't share WA's skill at exactly remembering sound signatures, so you'll have to take my comments with the appropriate grains of salt.
> 
> I found the* Q especially notable for its clarity in the treble regions and upper midrange* (especially on trumpet and flute and instruments with a brassy edge, where it was especially faithful, even delivering that slightly shrieky sound of the piccolo).  Mozart's Horn Concertos have never sounded better on my rig with the LCD-2's.  By contrast, I slightly preferred the *Norse 8-conductor on the bass,* especially deep organ notes and tympani (think, for instance, the storm sequence in Britten's "Peter Grimes").  I felt the *Norse had more impact, but the Q may have had more detail/clarity in the bass*.  Again, texture-wise, I felt the harmonics of a double bassoon were relayed with *more fidelity by the Q*, but the bass guitar had slightly more "drive" with the Norse.  So the bass was a wash for me, with points awarded to all players and no clear win.  In the midrange, I love the LCD-2's for vocals, and here I felt that the Q's were a little more faithful to what I remembered some of my favorite singers sounding like in concert, that is, the tonality of their voices was just right.  I think the Norse were equally good, and clearly much better than the stock cable.  I would have been quite happy with the Norse and never looked back, if Keven (kwkarth) hadn't talked me into trying the Q's.
> 
> ...


----------



## KingStyles

WA and DE, thanks for your great reviews and time spent comparing. Kudos to you both for you are both more patient than me.


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





buttsack said:


> I'm going to order my LCD-2 and Apex Peak/Volcano amp this week. Is silver or copper better for a hybrid amp? I don't mind paying the extra for silver if it makes a big difference.
> 
> At the start of this thread there is a lot of mention about the* Silver ALO cable *and *Moon Silver Dragon cable* but now in the last 10 pages all I read is talk about the *Q Audio copper cable*. *Has anyone listened to all 3 cables? *It just seems like people are trying to sell the Q Audio cable and I haven't read any comparisons.


 

 I have not heard the ALO, but I own the Silver Dragon and the Q-Audio.  The Silver Dragon is so noticeably brighter that I don't like it so I prefer to use the Q-Audio.  Plus Steve is a friend, so that never hurt either, lol.


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





wedge said:


> I have not heard the ALO, but I own the Silver Dragon and the Q-Audio.  The Silver Dragon is so noticeably brighter that I don't like it so I prefer to use the Q-Audio.  Plus Steve is a friend, so that never hurt either, lol.


 
   
  That's a great observation!  And you're right, Steve is good people!
   
  I only heard the Silver Dragon under meet conditions, so no long-term listening impressions.  I always thought it was a band-aid for people who bought LCD-2's but missed the brighter high-frequency signature of other headphone brands.  I consider the LCD-2 treble nicely balanced -- and I guess the latest drivers are even better (haven't heard yet). 
   
  The Silver Dragon seems to be a solution to a "problem" that I do not think is there.  
   
  YMMV.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





buttsack said:


> I'm going to order my LCD-2 and Apex Peak/Volcano amp this week. Is silver or copper better for a hybrid amp? I don't mind paying the extra for silver if it makes a big difference.
> 
> At the start of this thread there is a lot of mention about the* Silver ALO cable *and *Moon Silver Dragon cable* but now in the last 10 pages all I read is talk about the *Q Audio copper cable*. *Has anyone listened to all 3 cables? *It just seems like people are trying to sell the Q Audio cable and I haven't read any comparisons.


 


 I think Skylab has tried some cables, including at least the Moon Silver, ALO Chain mail, Q Audio and Norse and I believe he preferred the Q Audio in sound and ergonomics.
   
  I bought a Double Helix Molecule OCC Silver that came in yesterday, but didn't extensively listen/compare yet. I'm pretty sure I'll end up with one of Steve's cables eventually, and compare the two.
  Anyhow, Peter from Double Helix made me a beatiful cable:


----------



## scootermafia




----------



## Stevtt

I've got a Double Helix I'm going to put on mine either tomorrow or the day after.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





stevtt said:


> I've got a Double Helix I'm going to put on mine either tomorrow or the day after.


 

 What is the cable you have coming?  The website is way too confusing for me to figure out.  Is there just one for the LCD or many?


----------



## Stevtt

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What is the cable you have coming?  The website is way too confusing for me to figure out.  Is there just one for the LCD or many?


 
  I believe there are two main ones. The Double Helix and the Macro Molecule. I actually got this from a fellow headfier.
   
  I had planned on staying with the stock for quite a while to get a good impression before I branched out but felt it was a good deal so I jumped.  If it wasn't terminated to an SR-71b connection I'd send it to you for a comparison


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





stevtt said:


> I believe there are two main ones. The Double Helix and the Macro Molecule. I actually got this from a fellow headfier.
> 
> I had planned on staying with the stock for quite a while to get a good impression before I branched out but felt it was a good deal so I jumped.  If it wasn't terminated to an SR-71b connection I'd send it to you for a comparison


 


 The _Molecule _is the 'main' one (normally in copper but silver is optional), the _Macro Molecule _is specially made for LCD-2 (8 wire).
  But there's also the _Clone_, _Complement_ and _Spore_
   
  WA, if you didn't already, click towards the store instead of the main website: http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/


----------



## Choochoo

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> The Q audio cable is so speedy that I've had a ticket already. Ticket to audio heaven that is.


 

 FedEx delivery van showed up this morning, and I have since been on a joy ride. My initial impression is that Q Audio cables add clarity without changing the overall sound signature of LCD2. I like that...a lot.


----------



## Stevtt

The Macro Molecule does look pretty cool. Has anyone ordered one yet?


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm really enjoying the Q Cable.  The extra clarity is so enticing.


----------



## Radio_head

The only macro that really looks cool (in addition to sounding good) is the one that they charge you an extra 250 (total of 500) to braid.  If they charged say 350 for that, I would be all over it.


----------



## shamrock134

My macromolecule is currently being held at UK customs!
   
  I only went for the normal flat braided one though. As nice as the fancy braiding looks I couldn't afford it!


----------



## Loevhagen

Nice.  The Q is a keeper
   
(Off topic -> I even ordered it to my HiFiMAN HE-500).
  
  Quote: 





choochoo said:


> FedEx delivery van showed up this morning, and I have since been on a joy ride. My initial impression is that Q Audio cables add clarity without changing the overall sound signature of LCD2. I like that...a lot.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





choochoo said:


> FedEx delivery van showed up this morning, and I have since been on a joy ride. My initial impression is that Q Audio cables add clarity without changing the overall sound signature of LCD2. I like that...a lot.


 

  
  That increased clarity opens the way to a lot of other improvements you're going to notice as you spend more time with the Q.


----------



## Stevtt

Same with me. I can't justify the extra bucks for appearance


----------



## dyl1dyl

Hey guys, does anyone have any experience with the double helix clone cables (silver or copper) with the LCD 2s (rev 2 would be great)? Thanks. http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=12


----------



## scootermafia

I never intended for anyone to actually buy the Kumihimo braided one.  It is intentionally priced too high, because it is really, really slow and not fun to loom.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


scootermafia said:


> I never intended for anyone to actually buy the Kumihimo braided one.  It is intentionally priced too high, because it is really, really slow and not fun to loom.


 





   
  Now I'm thinking of ordering one just to piss you off.


----------



## TruBrew

I don't think it will piss im off. Since it is priced high, I think the annoyance fee is built in.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





proglover said:


> I think Skylab has tried some cables, including at least the Moon Silver, ALO Chain mail, Q Audio and Norse and I believe he preferred the Q Audio in sound and ergonomics.
> 
> I bought a Double Helix Molecule OCC Silver that came in yesterday, but didn't extensively listen/compare yet. I'm pretty sure I'll end up with one of Steve's cables eventually, and compare the two.
> Anyhow, Peter from Double Helix made me a beatiful cable:


 

 Ohhhhhh
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Im thinking of getting this design, or ill get a copper teflon that would look amazing (theoretically) with the LCD-2's wood.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Ohhhhhh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  
   
  the earcup wires are 'licorice' style. If I would have to order again, I'd still take the beautiful defcon style, but take the soft black nylon for the earcup wires (like Peter adviced me in the first place)
  Still, it's a great looking (and sounding) cable
   
   
  About the macro-molecule, maybe I'm the only one, but I find the normal braid more beautiful then the kumi. If I were to get a copper DH cable, it would be that one probably.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I don't think it will piss im off. Since it is priced high, I think the annoyance fee is built in.


 

 Lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





proglover said:


> the earcup wires are 'licorice' style. If I would have to order again, I'd still take the beautiful defcon style, but take the soft black nylon for the earcup wires (like Peter adviced me in the first place)
> Still, it's a great looking (and sounding) cable


 
   
  Peter wasn't the only one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can appreciate why the soft black nylon is recommended but you do have a super nice cable there, enjoy!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I never intended for anyone to actually buy the Kumihimo braided one.  It is intentionally priced too high, because it is really, really slow and not fun to loom.


 
   
   
  That's too funny!  
   
  Which cable would suggest for the LCD?


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *grokit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Peter wasn't the only one
> 
> ...


 


 true
  it's because of your excellent recommendation I went with a cable from Peter's hands. I don't regret it a bit.
   
  Thanks again Vince.


----------



## scootermafia

Can't talk much about cables other than direct specific questions, but I'm always willing to answer PMs.  I realize things can get a bit confusing, take your time on the site to digest it all.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Can't talk much about cables other than direct specific questions, but I'm always willing to answer PMs.  I realize things can get a bit confusing, take your time on the site to digest it all.


 

 Once i get some LCD-2's ill be getting a cable.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Can't talk much about cables other than direct specific questions, but I'm always willing to answer PMs.  I realize things can get a bit confusing, take your time on the site to digest it all.


 

 Lol on the new avatar Peter, self portrait?


----------



## scootermafia

You've got to be kidding me, I'm nowhere near that hot, not even with a pair of floats on.


----------



## shamrock134

****, had to pay £30 customs fees on my Macromolecule.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  At least it will be delivered tomorrow.


----------



## scootermafia

I only put a $100 value on it.  Not sure why you'd get charged.


----------



## shamrock134

It's because of the recession. They are making sure they get every single penny of VAT on all imported items. Nothing gets through any more!
   
  The invoice actually says £15.80 import VAT and £13.50 "clearance fee". Those robbing bar stewards!


----------



## scootermafia

Yay USA, I've imported some very expensive stuff with no duties from customs.  Not sure exactly what I'd have to buy to get charged.  Well, it could have been worse.


----------



## Buttsack

I'm tossing up whether to get the Double Helix Molecule OCC (12ft $235) or the Q-Audio (13ft $340) cables. Are the Q-Audio cables worth the extra money? Has anyone listened to both and can make comparisons?


----------



## Wedge

Haven't heard or seen both, but I am extremely happy with my Q-Audio cables.


----------



## grokit

^ Ditto on the Double Helix Molecule OCC lol.


----------



## shamrock134

Woop!


----------



## Shubar

Wow that looks really nice!!! Is that pink?


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> You've got to be kidding me, I'm nowhere near that hot, not even with a pair of floats on.


 

  
  Hehe, the avatar reminds me of one of my old science teachers.


  Quote: 





shubar said:


> Wow that looks really nice!!! Is that pink?


 


  You know you want it...it'll match the Hello Kitty poster on your wall lol (just kidding)
   
   
   
  Macromolecule looks really sweet, especially the kumihimo braids.


----------



## shamrock134

Quote: 





shubar said:


> Wow that looks really nice!!! Is that pink?


 


  It's copper coloured, I think the lighting just makes it look pink.
   
  Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to comment on the SQ improvements as the stock cable has been immediately banished to the box where it shall remain henceforth!
   
  Thanks to scootermafia for this sexy cable!


----------



## Radio_head

Looks way better than the pictures on the website.  Think I'm going to order one, I've done them in the past and they're solid.


----------



## scootermafia

I like the lighting, it sure is a bold color of pink alright...it may be a paler shade of pink in real life.  Thanks for the comments!


----------



## DeadEars

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I like the lighting, it sure is a bold color of pink alright...it may be a paler shade of pink in real life.  Thanks for the comments!


 


  It takes a real man to wear pink...


----------



## scootermafia

Yep, there was a point in my life where I'd never consider wearing a pink shirt, but I'm down with pink and purple now.


----------



## Loevhagen

Does it sound as spectacular as it appears?


----------



## Lenni

I don't think the recession has something to do with it. they're going to charge their taxes whether it's a recession or not. I've received some speaker cables yesterday from the US, and didn't cost me a penny in taxes. the UPS man came to my door and handed me package. this is not the first time. I asked the vendor that I'd like to avoid getting ripped off by custom if possible, and said he could help. he declared the contents has a gift.
   
  however, I wonder how many packages someone can declare as a gift before the mafia tax enforcers get suspicious though
  


scootermafia said:


> I only put a $100 value on it.  Not sure why you'd get charged.


 
   


shamrock134 said:


> It's because of the recession. They are making sure they get every single penny of VAT on all imported items. Nothing gets through any more!
> 
> The invoice actually says £15.80 import VAT and £13.50 "clearance fee". Those robbing bar stewards!


----------



## Proglover

deleted post, move on..


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> Woop!


 

 You weren't suppose to show me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Its that the 8 braid? How long?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Where is that guy whose name also means Foucault currents?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





			
				shamrock134 said:
			
		

> I'm not going to be able to comment on the SQ improvements as the stock cable has been immediately banished to the box where it shall remain henceforth!
> 
> Thanks to scootermafia for this sexy cable!


 

 Haha I do the same with all my stock cables once I get the aftermarket ones, why bother comparing when it is all subjective anyways. I do understand comparisons between aftermarket cables so you can decide what your preference is but the stock one? Forget about it.
  Sexiness and ergonomics are what really matters in life as well as headphone cables, if you like the sound that's a bonus


----------



## Windsor

Has anyone tried this one yet? It looks tasty.
   
  http://aloaudio.com/audeze-lcd2-reference-8-salty-pepper-headphone-cable.html


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Has anyone tried this one yet? It looks tasty.
> 
> http://aloaudio.com/audeze-lcd2-reference-8-salty-pepper-headphone-cable.html


 


 There's a whole thread about the LCD-2 cables from ALO, Ken just posted about that one at the end. I don't know if anyone has tried it yet though.


----------



## BrainFood

Import duties and tax are a reality in many countries whether we like it or not.  Out of respect to those sellers who are kind enough to help, at least return the favour by keeping it to yourself rather than posting online 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.   The words gratitude and discretion come to mind.


----------



## kiertijai

I don't know that these two cables has been mentioned in this thread or not.
  I have owned the LCD2 rev1 and recently own another LCD2 rev2.  I have used
  3 different aftermarket cables ie. Twag cable, Zeus  silver clad cable and Apuresound V3.
  I  prefer the Zeus silver clad with the LCD1 because it opens up the treble and soundstage
  more while retaining the bass quality while the Twag did not.  The apuresound V3 improved
  the SQ of the rev2 in all aspect comparing to the stock cable.  I haven't switched between
  the two cables between the LCD2 rev1 or rev2.   However I think the quality of amplifier and
  source  is probably more important than the recable.  With the new ECBA (Balancing act)
  the LCD2 rev1 and rev2 really shines, I now don't have problem with the treble and soundstage
  of the rev1 and no problem with the bass quantity of the rev2.   Other part may be important too
  because I used the same set up as recommended by Eaglejo : Furutech Rho wall outlet, SAA
  power cable and umbilical cord , the only thing that I did not do is to modify the LCD2 because
  I don't need to do that .


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





brainfood said:


> Import duties and tax are a reality in many countries whether we like it or not.  Out of respect to those sellers who are kind enough to help, at least return the favour by keeping it to yourself rather than posting online
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 you're right about this, thanks for reminding me to something I should've thought of myself


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





grokit said:


> There's a whole thread about the LCD-2 cables from ALO, Ken just posted about that one at the end. I don't know if anyone has tried it yet though.


 

 Thanks for sharing that, grokit.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Has anyone tried this one yet? It looks tasty.
> 
> http://aloaudio.com/audeze-lcd2-reference-8-salty-pepper-headphone-cable.html


 
  Thats a $770 cable at 10 feet.    I'll be glad to review it for them if they'd send it to me...
   
  Any aftermarket cable priced more than the Q cable is going to have to have some real mojo to it to beat out the Q for comfort, and performance.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thats a $770 cable at 10 feet.    I'll be glad to review it for them if they'd send it to me...
> 
> Any aftermarket cable priced more than the Q cable is going to have to have some real mojo to it to beat out the Q for comfort, and performance.


 

 $770 - that's almost as much as a new rev2.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





windsor said:


> $770 - that's almost as much as a new rev2.


 


  
 DHC "Spore" Ultimate Headphone Cable 
 Starting at: $3,000.00    
   
  (anyone that has this? Except Peter himself)


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ...

$3K for a headphone cable ? wow, that cheered me up, hehe


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





proglover said:


> DHC "Spore" Ultimate Headphone Cable
> 
> Starting at: $3,000.00
> (anyone that has this? Except Peter himself)


 
   
  'Diminishing returns' comes to mind...
   
  I have no opinion on how the Spore cable actually sounds, but from the description I imagine it would probably have great synergy with a transparent DAC/Amp like a Lavry DA10 or DA11.
   
  If DHC really have 999 of them readily available and don't sell enough, they could melt the silver and turn to the jewellery trade.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





windsor said:


> 'Diminishing returns' comes to mind...
> 
> I have no opinion on how the Spore cable actually sounds, but from the description I imagine it would probably have great synergy with a transparent DAC/Amp like a Lavry DA10 or DA11.
> 
> If DHC really have 999 of them readily available and don't sell enough, they could melt the silver and turn to the jewellery trade.


 


 lol. You'd think you get the bag for free...
   
  Peter, just send me one, I'll review it, completely for free
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But seriously, it looks really sexy! I do not know any other party offering something like this.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





proglover said:


> lol. You'd think you get the bag for free...
> 
> Peter, just send me one, I'll review it, completely for free
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, true. You get a LV bag for this cable! Are you really getting a review sample? I may be getting either a spore cable or a Molecule cable. First i gotta try dem LCD-2's!


----------



## grokit

I can't go to a totally high-end cable yet for my LCD-2 as I still have other priorities for my system(s), but if I was I would have to seriously consider a DIY Crystal Piccolino from Parrots. Compared to retail on the wire alone it's a smoking deal.


----------



## scootermafia

Haha that bag really does cost $1600, can't give out any free ones sorry...if you can afford those cables, you may as well get a proper bag for them.  I don't have 999 on hand, that just means I'm willing to build up to 999 of them.  I can't send out Spore cables, it's already costing me a fortune to build some for myself.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





proglover said:


> lol. You'd think you get the bag for free...
> 
> Peter, just send me one, I'll review it, completely for free
> 
> ...


 
  Are you talking about reviewing the bag or the cable?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I can't go to a totally high-end cable yet for my LCD-2 as I still have other priorities for my system(s), but if I was I would have to seriously consider a DIY Crystal Piccolino from Parrots. Compared to retail on the wire alone it's a smoking deal.


 


  I want Parrots to mod the internal wiring of my LCD...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Haha that bag really does cost $1600, can't give out any free ones sorry...if you can afford those cables, you may as well get a proper bag for them.  I don't have 999 on hand, that just means I'm willing to build up to 999 of them.  I can't send out Spore cables, it's already costing me a fortune to build some for myself.


 

 For 3K will you come to my home and hook up the cable?


----------



## scootermafia

Doing the internal wiring of the LCD-2 is not fun, pretty easy to kill that connector.
   
  For $3k I will fly to your house and model some Italian bags for you.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Doing the internal wiring of the LCD-2 is not fun, pretty easy to kill that connector.
> 
> For $3k I will fly to your house and model some Italian bags for you.


 

 Bring some matching shoes also.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I want Parrots to mod the internal wiring of my LCD...


 

 Never heard of this, what are the differences?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Never heard of this, what are the differences?


 

 I forgot where it was posted recently.  "Parrots" opened up his LCD and rewired it with some very nice silver wire.  Very deft work.  I had thought of doing something like this after my LCD warranty runs out.  I would have gone a step further and changed out the metal connectors screwed or bolted to the LCD after the internal wiring although I do not know what else i would use instead.  I am not skilled at doing that work so I would have someone else actually do it.   Maybe some can post here the photos of Parrots internal mod.


----------



## scootermafia

This just reminded me of something.  I replaced my LCD-2's wire with something that I was fairly sure was an upgrade.  I then stripped down the stock wiring and saw that it was pure, solid silver wire in teflon.  I felt very stupid at this point.  I also nearly had a heart attack doing the mod, it's not something I would ever, ever do for any reason, ever again.  The jack is deeply recessed into the wood and it is not easy to get in there and see what's going on.  You also have the fun of making sure that the 2 sets of contacts are connected to each other.  
   
  TL;DR - The LCD-2s are already internally wired with pure silver, from what I can tell.  Don't "upgrade" their stock wire.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> This just reminded me of something.  I replaced my LCD-2's wire with something that I was fairly sure was an upgrade.  I then stripped down the stock wiring and saw that it was pure, solid silver wire in teflon.  I felt very stupid at this point.  I also nearly had a heart attack doing the mod, it's not something I would ever, ever do for any reason, ever again.  The jack is deeply recessed into the wood and it is not easy to get in there and see what's going on.  You also have the fun of making sure that the 2 sets of contacts are connected to each other.
> 
> TL;DR - The LCD-2s are already internally wired with pure silver, from what I can tell.  Don't "upgrade" their stock wire.


 

 Excellent info.  I did not know this. Audeze does not mention anything about the internal wiring that I know of.  There goes my about to bloom cottage industry.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Where is that guy whose name also means Foucault currents?


 

 Probably caught in a whirlpool.
   
  "a circular movement of water, counter to a main current, causing a small whirlpool."


----------



## scootermafia

Audez'e should be proud of the wire they use, since I'm almost completely sure it's pure silver.  Since the length is tiny there's no reason why they wouldn't go all out for that.  A business replacing LCD2 internal wire would be about as fun as tearing off your fingernails with pliers.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Probably caught in a whirlpool.
> 
> "a circular movement of water, counter to a main current, causing a small whirlpool."


 
  Perhaps it is just the heat of the summer.  Too much summer heat.
   
  Quoting from "Electricity and Basic electronics" by Stephen R. Matt 5th edition  P.165
   
  Heat is created in the transformer when alternating currents (Eddy currents) are forced to flow in the core because of induced voltages. The larger the voltage created by the fields, the greater the heat generated in the transformer. the greater the heat, the greater the energy loss. In the trade, this loss is known as "Eddy-current loss".  

 Too much heat I think.  Perhaps more varnish or oxide needs to be applied for better insulation...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Audez'e should be proud of the wire they use, since I'm almost completely sure it's pure silver.  Since the length is tiny there's no reason why they wouldn't go all out for that.  A business replacing LCD2 internal wire would be about as fun as tearing off your fingernails with pliers.


 


  But with the money I would have made I could have bought that 3K cable and some shoes to go with the bag.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Audez'e should be proud of the wire they use, since I'm almost completely sure it's pure silver.  Since the length is tiny there's no reason why they wouldn't go all out for that.  A business replacing LCD2 internal wire would be about as fun as tearing off your fingernails with pliers.


 


 That's good to know. But evidently the Crystal Piccolino is not just silver; according to Jaben,
   
  "Crystal uses a unique silver and gold combination which helps deliver better sound and signals.
  The very pure silver Crystal uses has a crystal structure. That means by solidification of the metal, you get round-shaped crystal boundaries touching each other, buy having "bad places" where they don't touch.
  These bad gaps are filled/injected with gold, which is the only metal that can be used for this.
  It makes the way of the electric signal smooth and in time again."
   
  So it may still be an upgrade. Also it is evidently quite difficult to solder properly.
   
  You and Parrots are both madmen; _kids, don't try this at home!_


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Yes, true. You get a LV bag for this cable! Are you really getting a review sample? I may be getting either a spore cable or a Molecule cable. First i gotta try dem LCD-2's!


 


 No, no, that was a joke
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I don't think makers like Q-Audio, Norse and DHX need to give/loan review sample cables anymore, their names are well established in the headphone world and there are plenty of opinions about their products (except the spore, lol), but if any of them were to let a head-fier review them, I'd definitely not be the best choice for that task; there are members here and even active in this specific topic, who can do that way better then me.
   
  You're deciding between spore and molecule?! That's the entry and the most expensive one. You mean molecule and macro-molecule or clone, not?
   
  Anyway, indeed, I'd first get the LCD-2's and make sure you're certain about keeping it.


----------



## Buttsack

I'm tossing up whether to get the Double Helix Molecule OCC (12ft $235) or the Q-Audio (13ft $340) cables. Are the Q-Audio cables worth the extra money? Has anyone listened to both and can make comparisons?


----------



## Alghazanth

Is there any general consensus on whether copper or silver is better suited to the rev2?


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> Is there any general consensus on whether copper or silver is better suited to the rev2?


 


 I think consensus on the internet, let alone head-fi, is like a white buffalo.  Sure, it's technically possible, but how often does it ever happen?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  To be honest, the only time I've liked silver at all in the circuit of a rig is Kingstyles' Skylla/BA rig.  That being said, usually I don't like to bring additional brightness to the sound signature, which has been my normal experience with silver.  If you find the LCD-2's or your rig in general to need a little more treble energy, though, it may be the ticket.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





equus said:


> I think consensus on the internet, let alone head-fi, is like a white buffalo.  Sure, it's technically possible, but how often does it ever happen?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea, sounds about right. I would've gone silver on the rev1 but I don't want to add any treble to the rev2.


----------



## WarriorAnt

odds where estimated at more than 1 in 10 million for a white calf buffalo, experts with the National Buffalo Association had believed the gene needed to produce a white calf buffalo had been lost when the buffalo was nearly driven to extinction. Now the odds for a white buffalo are more like 600 million to 1.


----------



## scootermafia

I just got the rev 2's.  They don't sound strongly different in their tonal balance compared to the rev 1's, they just sound a little more clean and detailed.  Both metals are fine with them.


----------



## Shubar

Cannot wait for my Macromolecule to come in! I swore I'll never get into this aftermarket cable business but that "pink but not pink" picture tipped me over the line... Arghhh my wallet....


----------



## shamrock134

Oh right, well to be honest I'm not very good at reviewing things. I can barely describe differences between headphones so imagine me trying with cables! So yeah it's a bit of a cop out, but I bought the Macromolecule more for it's aesthetics and ergonomics. Any sonic improvements are just a bonus really.
   
  Perhaps Shubar can give a review.


----------



## Shubar

Going to be late September before I get them  Out of the country for a couple of weeks.


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





shubar said:


> Going to be late September before I get them  Out of the country for a couple of weeks.


 


  Let's not trip here, you'll be paying me import tax first before I release your cable to you 
   
  Getting a macromolecule myself as well. Should be great!


----------



## scootermafia

Thanks to you guys, it's going to be a braiding fest this weekend :-o


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'd love to review a silver cable for the LCD-2's.


----------



## Freazy

I ordered a Burson HA-160D,Audeze LCD-2 and MA Silver Dragon Rev.3 from Moon Audio but still waiting for them to reply to my e-mails.
  But i will give my review off the Silver Dragon when all of this gets here (could take a while since i'm located in Belgium Europe)


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Thanks to you guys, it's going to be a braiding fest this weekend :-o


 


  Could have been worse...at least it's not kumihimo braids


----------



## scootermafia

Roger that...


----------



## swbf2cheater

I planned to get a more portable cable from Q audio with a balanced 6 pin ( if possible ) for use with a Ibasso PB2 Pelican.  I hear great things about their cables and really the only thing left I have left to look into would be how a mini to balanced interconnect would improve on just a standard mini interconnect.


----------



## scootermafia

If your source is single ended then just use the single ended amp input, there's no benefit to doing it any other way.


----------



## swbf2cheater

^ good to know, ty
   
  Do you think the balanced cable and amp option is worth it even if the source doesn't have a balanced out?


----------



## fatcat28037

A balanced amp and balanced cabling to your phones is of no value if you don't have a balanced source.


----------



## kwkarth

fantasy


----------



## scootermafia

A lot of the balanced amps out there are more powerful than their single-ended counterparts, and are sending a balanced signal to the headphones whether or not they get a balanced input from the source.  However, you don't need to hook the source up with a single ended-to-balanced cable -- because it's just merging the 2 grounds together, which is already going to happen if you just use a mini-mini cable with the balanced amp's single ended input.  There's no functional difference between using a mini-mini or a mini-balanced cable in this situation.


----------



## Br777

DIY!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (click the photo to make it bigger)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





br777 said:


> DIY!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I wonder what the effect on the signal is when it has to go thru another connector like that?


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I wonder what the effect on the signal is when it has to go thru another connector like that?


 


   
  you mean as far as effecting the "balanced-ness" of it?
  they are all 4 pin 4 wire connectors, so.. none in that case
   
  otherwise i'm not sure what you mean.
   
  I know there are several "big" cable companies selling cables like this so i can only imagine they have rigorously a/b'd the effects


----------



## scootermafia

It's a totally different way of driving the headphones.  Balanced amps usually have 4 channels, for L+ L- R+ and R-, while SE usually has 2 channels.  Balanced amps (aka "bridged," since the term balanced is controversial around here and means a somewhat different thing when it comes to driving headphones vs. say XLR interconnects) are actively driving the grounds, individually.  Single ended amps, the grounds passively return -- so in balanced form an amp will output twice as much power.  
   
  BR777, am I going crazy, or are there only 2 wires going to that SR71 plug...isn't that a 4 wire plug?
   
  Edit: I'm guessing you used Steve's sleeving or similar but put wire pairs in each one.  If Steve built this it would look like his other adapters.  
  Edit2: This is probably not one of Steve's cables.  You DIY'd the whole thing.  Could have fooled me.


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> It's a totally different way of driving the headphones.  Balanced amps usually have 4 channels, for L+ L- R+ and R-, while SE usually has 2 channels.  Balanced amps (aka "bridged," since the term balanced is controversial around here and means a somewhat different thing when it comes to driving headphones vs. say XLR interconnects) are actively driving the grounds, individually.  Single ended amps, the grounds passively return -- so in balanced form an amp will output twice as much power.
> 
> BR777, am I going crazy, or are there only 2 wires going to that SR71 plug...isn't that a 4 wire plug?
> 
> ...


 


   
  i have never understood, and may never understand all that goes along with "balanced" setups.. the wiring, the "is it truly balanced or not" .. i cant figure it out.
   
  all i know is as far as wiring the rsa connector goes, and wiring my lcd-2's with a "balanced" cable, Its wired correctly, and the extra connector he was asking about shouldnt effect that.. heck maybe its all wrong..  what do i know.  I just followed the directions.  the multimeter beeps where its supposed to, and the headphones sound good.. what else can i say. 
   
  there are 4 wires going to the rsa.. using 4 individually sleeved would have been too big to fit in the little rsa opening.., so yes, there are 2 wires in each side.
  i dont know who steve is.. i'm guessing you mean q-audio steve?
   
  yes, i made this myself, i used cotton rope from ebay..  
  thanks for the compliment!  I'm definitely thrilled with how this came out.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





br777 said:


> you mean as far as effecting the "balanced-ness" of it?
> they are all 4 pin 4 wire connectors, so.. none in that case
> 
> otherwise i'm not sure what you mean.
> ...


 
  I'm wondering about the effect that extra connector has on the quality of the signal in terms of sonics and the connector degrading the signal.   The signal is just about to enter the headphones and then it has to go through that connector and then back into the wire up to the headphone again.


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm wondering about the effect that extra connector has on the quality of the signal in terms of sonics and the connector degrading the signal.   The signal is just about to enter the headphones and then it has to go through that connector and then back into the wire up to the headphone again.


 


   
  ya got me man..  i try not to think too hard about stuff like that.


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm wondering about the effect that extra connector has on the quality of the signal in terms of sonics and the connector degrading the signal.   The signal is just about to enter the headphones and then it has to go through that connector and then back into the wire up to the headphone again.


 
   
  Are you serious? Think about all the wire an audio signal goes through before it reaches your 'phones/speakers... I think you should have bigger things to worry about.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Are you serious? Think about all the wire an audio signal goes through before it reaches your 'phones/speakers... I think you should have bigger things to worry about.


 
  Yes I am serious.  Thats two large chunks of extra metal the signal has to transform through.  From the wire into connectors termination then into the metal of the connector, then into another connector then into the connectors termination again then into the wire.   That's a lot of extra metal to deal with.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Yes I am serious.  Thats two large chunks of extra metal the signal has to transform through.  From the wire into connectors termination then into the metal of the connector, then into another connector then into the connectors termination again then into the wire.   That's a lot of extra metal to deal with.


 

 But its with portable gear (looks like sr71B connector right?) - I really don't think you would be able to hear those extra connections, esp with portable use.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





drez said:


> But its with portable gear (looks like sr71B connector right?) - I really don't think you would be able to hear those extra connections, esp with portable use.


 
  So portable rigs are inferior then?   I don't know since I never go portable.


----------



## scootermafia

Warriorant, are you talking about the adapter compromising the signal?  I don't think the extra solder joints in my experience makes a huge deal.  The signal is already taking a beating going through all those circuit boards.  Cables are longer signal paths than circuit boards, which is why I think people find they are useful upgrades.  In the very least, it's part of the signal path that you have control over. 
   
  Portable setups can be very good.  I'm not sure if they deserve the sort of attention/obsession they get on head-fi, but a really terrific portable setup (like the iBasso balanced amps and dacs) can sound surprisingly like my full size setup.  I pamper my portable setup not because it's all that important to do so, but because it's a fun hobby.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Warriorant, are you talking about the adapter compromising the signal?  I don't think the extra solder joints in my experience makes a huge deal.  The signal is already taking a beating going through all those circuit boards.  Cables are longer signal paths than circuit boards, which is why I think people find they are useful upgrades.  In the very least, it's part of the signal path that you have control over.
> 
> Portable setups can be very good.  I'm not sure if they deserve the sort of attention/obsession they get on head-fi, but a really terrific portable setup (like the iBasso balanced amps and dacs) can sound surprisingly like my full size setup.  I pamper my portable setup not because it's all that important to do so, but because it's a fun hobby.


 

 The iBasso huh?   Good to know. My daughter has a birthday coming up and she's into portable sound.   As far as those adapters are concerned, Yes I was curious.  I was listening to Shpongle and I was imagining myself as an electron traveling through some fine cable wire and then BAM I hit one last piece of solder, then the connector, then another connecter then some more solder then finally free again to travel onward down that nice piece of wire again.  The pit stop didn't feel good.


----------



## scootermafia

Haha yeah it's a bit scary if you think about it...now think about all those tiny circuit boards...the signal paths in my Audiogd gear are really complicated...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Haha yeah it's a bit scary if you think about it...now think about all those tiny circuit boards...the signal paths in my Audiogd gear are really complicated...


 


  That's more like a ride through the electronic amusement park...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> As far as those adapters are concerned, Yes I was curious.  I was listening to Shpongle and I was imagining myself as an electron traveling through some fine cable wire and then BAM I hit one last piece of solder, then the connector, then another connecter then some more solder then finally free again to travel onward down that nice piece of wire again.  The pit stop didn't feel good.


 

 If you were in fact an electron, encountering the odd solder joint and connector would be the LEAST of your problems.
   
  That "nice piece of wire"?
   
  HA!
   
  That "nice piece of wire" is made up of a crystal lattice. And unless it's been cooled to absolute zero, is vibrating rather violently due to thermal energy. So, even when there is no signal present, and you're just trying to mind your own business, you're constantly being bitch-slapped by the lattice every which way. In other words, the lattice is an angry pimp and you da ho'.
   
  When a signal is applied, you still get bitch-slapped every which way by the lattice, but now you take on a net drift in the direction of the applied field. This drift velocity is very slow. Quote literally a snail's pace. And since a music signal is AC, meaning it alternately changes polarity and therefore direction, if you're hanging out at one end of the cable, you may never see the other end let alone a solder joint or connector.
   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> If you were in fact an electron, encountering the odd solder joint and connector would be the LEAST of your problems.
> 
> That "nice piece of wire"?
> 
> ...


 

 Man I am NEVER going to listen to Shpongle Again!


----------



## scootermafia

Steve is known to shpongle people's brains.


----------



## yeemanz

Another macromolecule in the house...isn't she a beauty


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





yeemanz said:


> Another macromolecule in the house...isn't she a beauty


 


   
  very nice.. dang thats a LOTTA wire! you'd need a neck brace to use that cable for very long


----------



## Hero Kid

God...
   
  Eye candy alert!


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





br777 said:


> very nice.. dang thats a LOTTA wire! you'd need a neck brace to use that cable for very long


 

 Not as big as you'd think...about as big around as a pencil.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Not as big as you'd think...about as big around as a pencil.


 

 That's what she said.                  I couldn't resist.


----------



## olor1n

^ So juvenile. So good. Lol!


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





br777 said:


> very nice.. dang thats a LOTTA ____! you'd need a neck brace to ___ that ____ for very long


 

 FTFY


----------



## grokit

An electron getting bitch-slapped, lol !


----------



## swbf2cheater

all yur pylons r belong to us


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





yeemanz said:


> Another macromolecule in the house...isn't she a beauty


 

 More wire the merrier!


----------



## Windsor

A fellow head-fi member lent me an ALO Reference 8 Silver/Copper cable yesterday and I am experiencing the most enjoyable sound I've yet heard from the LCD-2 rev2. The rev2 with the ALO cable* creates a subtle difference from the rev2 LCD-2 with the stock cable, a difference that is further altered by a different DAC/Amp.
   
  Using the various combinations of LCD-2 rev2 with either the stock cable or ALO cable as heard from the Lavry DA10 and Burson HA-160D, I have found the HA-160D/LCD-2/ALO Ref 8 cable combo to be my favourite so far.
   
  After hearing the above combinations, the stock cable rev2 and DA10 sounds warmly well-rounded, whereas the stock rev2 with the HA-160D can sound much too artificially warm and lacking in treble extension to the point that it distracts me from the music (more on that here - see the part about _A Love Supreme_). The ALO cabled rev2 and the DA10 is brighter sounding than with the stock LCD-2 cable and the bass is leaner to the point of sounding too lean to me at times on some recordings, but the HA-160D and ALO'd rev2 seems to sound great with the majority of what I play through it. The overall presentation sounds slightly brighter than 'natural' and there is lucid treble extension. The bass has a euphonic presentation that sounds warmer than natural but isn't presented with excessive resonance that detracts from musical enjoyment. 
   
  The ALO cable is very well-constructed. Its woven stands of silver and copper are beautiful to look at and feel pleasing to handle. Because of the relatively rougher texture of the ALO in comparison with the LCD-2 stock cable, there can be some low-frequency noise and vibrations if the cable rubs on the zip of my jumper, I'm wearing one, or against the edge of my desk. That noise could annoy some people, but I don't mind it because I mostly sit still and slightly away from my desk when I'm at my computer wearing headphones. The cable could be described as being visually distracting - against the backdrop of my often black clothing, the stock LCD-2 cable blends in making it somewhat invisible; the ALO is more immediately noticeable visually due to the black/white contrast. If you want the Reference 8 to blend in with you are wearing, I'd probably advise wearing a white t-shirt when using it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Between the 'best' of my two favourite of the above combos at time of writing (the stock rev2/DA10 and the ALO'd rev2/HA-160D), the difference is subtle, and if you have one of those configurations, I wouldn't recommend paying the extra money to have the other one as well, but if you get the chance to try both combos and prefer the sound of the equipment that is different that what you own, then it may be worth changing your equipement to what your ears prefer.
   
  I'm very grateful that I have the chance to try the ALO cable, which is a wonderfully crafted artifact that looks beautifully bling and with the right amp, makes the rev2 sound quite the thing!
   
  *The ALO ref8 cable I was using was terminated with a 4-pin XLR plug. To use it with my current DAC/Amp I used an OCC XLR to 1/4" Stereo plug converter cable made of copper. I don't know for sure how the ALO cable I described above would sound on its own without the converter cable, but without the converter cable it may sound less warm as I found the pure copper LCD-2 stock cable I have to sounds warmer than the copper/silver ALO cable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Ergonomically how was the ALO cable?


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Ergonomically how was the ALO cable?


 
   
  See paragraph 4 in my above post.


----------



## tkteo

Windsor, based on what you wrote in para 4, would you describe the ALO cable as a bit microphonic at times?


----------



## hotubei

anyone tried this one yet?
   

   
  not 'really' aftermarket, but not stock RCA at least...


----------



## drez

Looks pretty decent.  Beats the Canare star quad (original cable they used) I am using for capacitance, frequency response (although star quad is flat within audio spectrum), looks lighter too.  Doesn't really take that much to beat the star quad though lol.


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hotubei said:


> anyone tried this one yet?
> 
> not 'really' aftermarket, but not stock RCA at least...


 

 I received this cable as part of my LCD-2 wooden box kit. I find it quite decent.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hotubei said:


> anyone tried this one yet?
> 
> 
> 
> not 'really' aftermarket, but not stock RCA at least...


 

 Is that the Audeze stock cable?


----------



## tkteo

It's the stock cable I received as part of my kit (LCD-2, wooden box, wood care oil, cable, frequency response chart). So my answer would be "yes".


----------



## scootermafia

People on head-fi misuse the word "microphonic".  Any braided cable if you rub it against a firm surface is going to make a noise like:
   

  This isn't the same as actual microphonics, which refers to true electrical noises produced when a cable like a mic cable is moved around:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphonics
   
  What you think is microphonics is just the cable making a crinkling noise.  For IEM cables you can really feel the vibrations because they're stuffed into your ears and sealed - even the stock cable, regardless of how small and soft it is, is going to make noise.


----------



## tkteo

Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Is that the Audeze stock cable?


 

 Yep it is.  To me it feels inexpensive and IMHO not befitting a headphone such as the LCD-2, but many seem to feel it performs better.  That's the bottom line I guess.


----------



## Windsor

scootermafia said:


> People on head-fi misuse the word "microphonic".  Any braided cable if you rub it against a firm surface is going to make a noise like:
> 
> 
> This isn't the same as actual microphonics, which refers to true electrical noises produced when a cable like a mic cable is moved around:
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the info.
   
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Windsor, based on what you wrote in para 4, would you describe the ALO cable as a bit microphonic at times?


 

 I've not heard any unusual signal noise when using the ALO cable I described.
   
  *****
   
  FYI: I updated my above post to signify that I used an OCC copper converter cable to change the 4-pin XLR of the ALO to a 1/4" stereo plug that I could use with my DAC/Amp. I'm don't know how much, if at all, the OCC copper converter cable affected the sound of the copper/silver ALO cable.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





windsor said:


> A fellow head-fi member lent me an ALO Reference 8 Silver/Copper cable yesterday and I am experiencing the most enjoyable sound I've yet heard from the LCD-2 rev2.
> <snip>


 
   
  I'm glad you're  enjoying them.


----------



## Windsor

Quote:


mrq said:


> I'm glad you're  enjoying them.


 
  I am indeed - I'm just about to go and do some listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks again MrQ!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yep it is.  To me it feels inexpensive and IMHO not befitting a headphone such as the LCD-2, but many seem to feel it performs better.  That's the bottom line I guess.


 

 The stock cable is not so bad but it does hold back the performance of the LCD-2 r.2.    When I went from the stock cable to the Q cable I found improvement in every aspect of the sound.  The most significant improvement was clarity of the signal which opens the signal to all the other improvements in the sonic presentation of the LCD.      But I guess it is the bottom line.  If Audeze were to include a better designed cable the price might increase.   At least they give you a cable unlike some amp designers who do not include even a common Belden cable with their amps so you can at least get up and running.   That really bugs me.  But for the Audeze stock cable, best to find an aftermarket cable to give you that extra bit of refinement.


----------



## scootermafia

The new cable appears to be made at least partially by machine as it has overmolded connectors for the 4 pin mini XLRs, something I've yet to see before.  When you are selling as many headphones as Audez'e does, you have to get vast numbers of headphone cables.


----------



## drez

Yes close up the new stock cable does look a little nasty, and the specs are a bit thin compared to your mogwai/canare/furutech cables, but they do seem good in terms of capacitance and the frequency response seems decent also.  Even the second generation cable looks slightly less cheap - but it appears to have been at least partially hand made (heat shrink y splitter.)


----------



## grokit

The new stock cable is competitive with other stock cables, they seem to have taken the Ultrasone Edition approach this time.


----------



## scootermafia

The stock cable doesn't look like much, but upon taking it apart to reterminate it, it's a solid 22+ awg of well annealed, shiny looking stranded copper; it sounds pretty decent through my stereo, no real complaints.  The LCD-2s are not as cable sensitive as HD800s.


----------



## Windsor

@Scootermafia: Just wondering, what kind of headphone cable i.e. metal combination, have you found to be most effective for the LCD-2 rev2, especially with 'neutral'-sounding solid-state DAC/Amps?


----------



## scootermafia

Silver and copper are both good.  Silver isn't vastly better but if you have the money, a good silver is almost always better.  LCD-2s aren't that cable sensitive, you have to listen really really hard to get good value for your cable dollar, but the differences are there.  HD800s are much harder to please.  I have an extremely neutral setup - B22 and audioGD RE-7.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Silver and copper are both good.  Silver isn't vastly better but if you have the money, a good silver is almost always better.  LCD-2s aren't that cable sensitive, you have to listen really really hard to get good value for your cable dollar, but the differences are there.  HD800s are much harder to please.  I have an extremely neutral setup - B22 and audioGD RE-7.


 
   
  Thanks for the info. I've found that when I've been sitting listening for a while and my hearing has 'warmed up' that I'm much more sensitive to the changes in sound between different cables. After listening with the ALO cabled LCD-2 for a while (with the neutral Lavry DA10), switching to the stock LCD-2 cable sounds makes the music sound more congested to me. It is a very subtle difference, but one that gets larger the closer I listen.


----------



## scootermafia

Yeah, the overall sound is going to be pretty consistent between cables and between rev. 1 and rev. 2.  The thing to listen for is not really like more bass, more treble, etc etc but just overall how convincing is the sound that you're hearing something created by humans and not just a recording (even though you're listening to a recording of course).


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The new cable appears to be made at least partially by machine as it has overmolded connectors for the 4 pin mini XLRs, something I've yet to see before.  When you are selling as many headphones as Audez'e does, you have to get vast numbers of headphone cables.


 
  I've never been much of an aftermarket-headphone cable kind of guy but in this case I will be buying an aftermarket cable.  I like my cables to be substantial, though that can make them ornerous at times.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I've never been much of an aftermarket-headphone cable kind of guy but in this case I will be buying an aftermarket cable.  I like my cables to be substantial, though that can make them ornerous at times.


 

 Why the substantial thinking?


----------



## scootermafia

Insubstantial looking cables can often be quite substantial.  Cracking open the stock LCD2 cable reveals a solid 22awg of copper, even though the cable looks fairly thin...the insulation isn't all that thick so looks can be deceiving.  
   
  Personally though, if the headphone cable doesn't make me look like Britney Spears in the performance where she dances with the yellow python wrapped around her...i'm not happy.  
   
  edit:grammar


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Yeah, the overall sound is going to be pretty consistent between cables and between rev. 1 and rev. 2.  The thing to listen for is not really like more bass, more treble, etc etc but just overall how convincing is the sound that you're hearing something created by humans and not just a recording (even though you're listening to a recording of course).


 
   
  x2, you always have to listen to the overall sound sig, not focus on one part of a recording because you'll be disappointed your not hearing a difference. It also matters on how good the recording is.

       Quote:


usaudio said:


> I've never been much of an aftermarket-headphone cable kind of guy but in this case I will be buying an aftermarket cable.  I like my cables to be substantial, though that can make them ornerous at times.


 

 What about the aesthetics of them?


----------



## WNBC

Had to google your reference to B.Spears and python.  I'll take a double-braided snake terminated with a 1/4" TRS rattler 

  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Insubstantial looking cables can often be quite substantial.  Cracking open the stock LCD2 cable reveals a solid 22awg of copper, even though the cable looks fairly thin...the insulation isn't all that thick so looks can be deceiving.
> 
> Personally though, if the headphone cable doesn't make me look like Britney Spears in the performance where she dances with the yellow python wrapped around her...i'm not happy.
> 
> edit:grammar


----------



## Windsor

Quote:


scootermafia said:


> Yeah, the overall sound is going to be pretty consistent between cables and between rev. 1 and rev. 2.  The thing to listen for is not really like more bass, more treble, etc etc but just overall how convincing is the sound that you're hearing something created by humans and not just a recording (even though you're listening to a recording of course).


 
   
  My most profound experience of increased realism when listening to music with my head-fi setup was as the difference I heard hearing a Bob Dylan track as I switched between the Sennheiser HD 650 and the LCD-2 rev1 - the visual image of Bob Dylan I received when hearing the LCD-2 was much more lucid that the visual image I received with the HD 650; the increase in visual image quality seemed directly proportionate to the increase in audio quality.
   
  With cables, what I'm experiencing when hearing music and switching between the stock Audez'e cable and the ALO Reference 8 is like the difference between viewing the same image through a smudged window and a clear & shinier window respectively.


----------



## scootermafia

Yep, that creepy realism you get from listening to LCD-2 rev 2's is why I'm listening to them more and more.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote:

   


windsor said:


> Quote:
> 
> My most profound experience of increased realism when listening to music with my head-fi setup was as the difference I heard hearing a Bob Dylan track as I switched between the Sennheiser HD 650 and the LCD-2 rev1 - the visual image of Bob Dylan I received when hearing the LCD-2 was much more lucid that the visual image I received with the HD 650; the increase in visual image quality seemed directly proportionate to the increase in audio quality.
> 
> With cables, what I'm experiencing when hearing music and switching between the stock Audez'e cable and the ALO Reference 8 is like the difference between viewing the same image through a smudged window and a clear & shinier window respectively.


 
   
   
   Quote:



scootermafia said:


> Yeah, the overall sound is going to be pretty consistent between cables and between rev. 1 and rev. 2.  The thing to listen for is not really like more bass, more treble, etc etc but just overall how convincing is the sound that you're hearing something created by humans and not just a recording (even though you're listening to a recording of course).





   
  I noticed that many folks simply react to one or two parameters when listening or comparing a component or a tweak such as a cable and spend hardly anytime at all evaluating.   I try to take a longer approach which works very well for me in the long run.  I tend to spend 2 or 3 days evaluating something. I take hand written notes for every new addition to my rig. I write them as I listen.  Recently I obtained the Q cables and listened to them in comparison to the Audeze stock cable for 3 days and took 14 pages of hand written notes.   I start out with a number of compositions that I know very well by various artists and a few of mine own.   I listen for many parameters.  Clarity, transparency, dimension in the sound field which includes side to side, top to bottom, front to back depth, dynamics, micro dynamics, inner detail, micro detail, layering, decaying detail, instrument separation, Instrument placement, air around the instruments, how solid are the instruments, tonal balance, frequency extension, and so on.   
   
  The many days and much note taking can be a bit grueling I guess but once I get in the groove it goes pretty well.  When I'm done I get a strong appreciation of what is going on and from that point onward comes the perceptive benefits and fruits of all the labor. Afterwards the many differences I have come to ascertain and amalgamate add to an overall appreciation of the new component or tweak and the improvements I hear begin to grow and remain in my perception.  I think that if I had just made a quick evaluation for an hour  or so the differences and benefits might never reveal themselves to the extent that they do.    I know this and it's why I do the grueling work and take the notes because in the end it's always worth the trouble.  I am used to this though, since I was trained pretty much to analyze audio in a professional broadcast situation, except now at home I can do it without all the time pressure and bad breath of a producer breathing on me all day...and stealing my snacks...
   
  Anyway the point of my ramble is to gel together what Scootermafia has stated.  There is more to ascertain to the gestalt than just Treble and Bass, and Windsor couldn't be more correct when determining the effect and value of a tweak like a new cable. It's not some day or night difference to achieve with this type of tweak but more towards the perception and achievement of that cleaner shinier window without the smudges blurring your sonic view.


----------



## Windsor

I find it interesting how the differences of components seem to gradually unfold when listened to over time, like a closed flower opens to reveal its beauty.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windsor said:


> I find it interesting how the differences of components seem to gradually unfold when listened to over time, like a closed flower opens to reveal its beauty.


 

 Long term listening is really the only way.


----------



## Equus

I kind of have to agree with WA and Windsor.  There are certain aspects of sound that I find play well toward immediate gratification...bass impact and treble "shimmer", for instance.  Those are the kind of things, I think, that certain pieces of equipment do and reflect well on them in environments like meets or quick auditions.  The harder to part is to get the subtleties and overall feel without time and hopefully having some idea of what is affecting what in the signal.  Some of that you really have to take time for., so it depends on what you're listening to and what you're prioritizing.
   
  That being said, I usually try not to change up too much all at once in my rig.  That way I can take the time and really hopefully hear what's changed, for good or bad.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





equus said:


> I usually try not to change up too much all at once in my rig.  That way I can take the time and really hopefully hear what's changed, for good or bad.


 

 I'm averaging one tweak a month.  I have a Shunyata Venom 3 coming next week for my W4S DAC-2.  Then another in October for the V200.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





equus said:


> I kind of have to agree with WA and Windsor.  There are certain aspects of sound that I find play well toward immediate gratification...bass impact and treble "shimmer", for instance.  Those are the kind of things, I think, that certain pieces of equipment do and reflect well on them in environments like meets or quick auditions.  The harder to part is to get the subtleties and overall feel without time and hopefully having some idea of what is affecting what in the signal.  Some of that you really have to take time for., so it depends on what you're listening to and what you're prioritizing.
> 
> That being said, I usually try not to change up too much all at once in my rig.  That way I can take the time and really hopefully hear what's changed, for good or bad.


 
   
  The subtleties of change are gradually revealed over time and some are probably more apparent than others at first, the specific subtleties revealed initially likely differing from person-to-person. 
   
  The game of describing sound is interesting and more important to some than others. Just as some people may see a painting and be touched by it emotionally and leave it at that, others may attempt to become more conscious about the experience and perhaps write about it. Someone may hear a flagship headphone and saw 'wow,' or 'that sucks - it's too trebly.' Others may have the ears and vocabulary to describe the level of air around instruments or compare elements of the soundstage, and that's fine too.
   
  Like anything other skills in life, one's written ability to describing what we hear can be developed over time and be an enjoyably satisfying challenge, a different type of happiness than the emotional gratification gained from the vibe of your favourite music. Both types of happiness are valid. 
   
  I believe that you don't have to be able to describe what you hear to 'get it,' you can just experience it and enjoy it, but written descriptions can provide clear illustrations of what we perceive. It's like how the Tao in all of its oneness just is, and everything's perfect. It can also have thoughts it can interact with, thus creating duality. Both experiences of reality are valid and can be further appreciated by the contrast between them.
   
  I'm grateful for my learning curve when it comes to describing sound and for the enjoyable experiences that I'm having on this journey so far, such as the increased image clarity of the music I'm hearing with the LCD-2 due to the ALO cable currently in my possession. It's consciousness expanding for me to-see the many different ways to describe sound, such as those by WA and others (you're far-out guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
   
  *****
   
  I find it interesting how gradual improvements add up over time, such as in my audio chain, and I'll probably evolve more in my ability to describe such improvements as time passes. I again remind myself that music is most important 'component' of the audio chain, so...
   
  to the music (and great LCD-2 cables too)!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Writing about what I hear is difficult for me which is why I think I have to take so many pages of notes.   In the profession I was in I would think in nonverbal terms when editing and mixing sound.  I would make a nonverbal note of the sound at any one point in time, think of it as a nonverbal sonic snapshot of any given point in the music or audio. I cannot describe the process very well.  Its just a sonic memory in my mind much like a photograph would be and then I would compare the sonic memory to incoming audio or pieces of music I had to edit or process in some manner.  Turning that non verbal impression into words takes some translation for sure. It is as if I have to take the impression and then freeze it again, verbally analyze and translate it and procure words from it.  
   
  One thing is for sure though I think what most of us can agree on is that when we as audiophiles attend live music we never really experience it or participate and respond to it like audiophiles.  By this I mean we might bring our audiophile ears but we don't listen to a symphony orchestra and compare it to a piece of gear we know or own. We don't analyze live music as gear.  At least  I do not.   The two things couldn't seem farther apart when listening to a live symphony or any other kind of live music, amplified or un amplified.  Maybe I'm wrong about that.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Writing about what I hear is difficult for me which is why I think I have to take so many pages of notes.   In the profession I was in I would think in nonverbal terms when editing and mixing sound.  I would make a nonverbal note of the sound at any one point in time, think of it as a nonverbal sonic snapshot of any given point in the music or audio. I cannot describe the process very well.  Its just a sonic memory in my mind much like a photograph would be and then I would compare the sonic memory to incoming audio or pieces of music I had to edit or process in some manner.  Turning that non verbal impression into words takes some translation for sure. It is as if I have to take the impression and then freeze it again, verbally analyze and translate it and procure words from it.
> 
> One thing is for sure though I think what most of us can agree on is that when we as audiophiles attend live music we never really experience it or participate and respond to it like audiophiles.  By this I mean we might bring our audiophile ears but we don't listen to a symphony orchestra and compare it to a piece of gear we know or own. We don't analyze live music as gear.  At least  I do not.   The two things couldn't seem farther apart when listening to a live symphony or any other kind of live music, amplified or un amplified.  Maybe I'm wrong about that.


 

 I'm just hearing music as I hear it. For me, attending a gig is attending a gig. Listening to a recording of a performance through headphones is listening to a performance though headphones. Comparing the perceived sonic differences by different LCD-2 cables is comparing the perceived sonic differences by different LCD-2 cables.
   
  When writing about any of those activities, which I have only ever done on this forum, I draw upon the vocabulary of words that I know. It's a bit like saying what I want to 'say' on a musical instrument such as the drums by using the musical 'words' that I know. And there's always more that can be learnt.


----------



## Proglover

8 out of 10 times at live music, I'm just irritated by the awful quality of the sound these days. Can't help it, I can't really enjoy myself when sound quality is that bad. It made me go less and less to live music.
   
  I can still enjoy a cd which is mediocre in sound quality though, if the music is really good.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





proglover said:


> 8 out of 10 times at live music, I'm just irritated by the awful quality of the sound these days. Can't help it, I can't really enjoy myself when sound quality is that bad. It made me go less and less to live music.
> 
> I can still enjoy a cd which is mediocre in sound quality though, if the music is really good.


 
   
  You could become a sound engineer.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





proglover said:


> 8 out of 10 times at live music, I'm just irritated by the awful quality of the sound these days. Can't help it, I can't really enjoy myself when sound quality is that bad. It made me go less and less to live music.
> 
> I can still enjoy a cd which is mediocre in sound quality though, if the music is really good.


 

 It is amazing how often the sound ENG ruins the experience of live music by overextending the sound pressure levels of the live event through the sound system.   It is as if they just don't get it.    In many cases the venue is overloaded and everything becomes shrill.  High frequencies bounce around like sonic razor blades increasing in their dissonance as they swirl around and multiply.  Over indulgence is always the case.


----------



## BrainFood

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It is amazing how often the sound ENG ruins the experience of live music by overextending the sound pressure levels of the live event through the sound system.   It is as if they just don't get it.    In many cases the venue is overloaded and everything becomes shrill.  *High frequencies bounce around like sonic razor blades increasing in their dissonance as they swirl around and multipl*y.  Over indulgence is always the case.


 
   
   
  Brilliantly put!


----------



## drez

Did a bit more of a comparison between star  quad and ADZ-6.  Both use 4x20AWG stranded copper - ADZ has theoretical better frequency extension but it is beyond audible range, star quad has lower inductance, both have pretty low capacitance, with a theoretical edge to the star quad.  I might have to break out the multimeter to compare resistance between the two.  There is also a theoretical relationship between resistance and damping factor however I have no Idea of the magnitudes involved with regard to headphone application.
   
  Isn't there a saying about a little knowledge being dangerous...


----------



## yeemanz

Just received my macromolecule. It's a very nice cable, very aesthetically pleasing. Peter has done a fine job with the braiding. It actually does look pink in natural outdoor light.
   
  Haven't had much of a chance to do serious listening with the cable yet, but from what I can tell so far is that overall clarity has improved and the bass has become a little more tighter.
   
  I guess Peter's prediction that the 8 wire cable would be a good match for the lyr was also correct. 
   
   
  Quote: 





yeemanz said:


> Another macromolecule in the house...isn't she a beauty


----------



## swbf2cheater

Im looking for a very flexible, thin replacement cable with a 4ft  and 1/8 termination option.  I would love some recommendations if anyone happens to know a cable maker who does make thinner flexible cables.


----------



## Hero Kid

Q-audio... ?


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Im looking for a very flexible, thin replacement cable with a 4ft  and 1/8 termination option.  I would love some recommendations if anyone happens to know a cable maker who does make thinner flexible cables.


 


  The macro I have is pretty thin...well it more flat actually. I also have a DHC molecule cable and it's thin and flexible and very light
   
  Shoot Peter at DHC an email and he can fill you in on the details.


----------



## paultel 2009

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Im looking for a very flexible, thin replacement cable with a 4ft  and 1/8 termination option.  I would love some recommendations if anyone happens to know a cable maker who does make thinner flexible cables.


 
   
  x2 on the Q-Audio. Thin, flexible and light.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





swbf2cheater said:


> Im looking for a very flexible, thin replacement cable with a 4ft  and 1/8 termination option.  I would love some recommendations if anyone happens to know a cable maker who does make thinner flexible cables.


 

 Q audio cable is extremely flexable.  You'll forget it's even there.  Sounds great too.


----------



## swbf2cheater

awesome, thanks everyone


----------



## Girls Generation

I would assume it's a good idea to get my cable terminated in 4pin XLR and get adapter cables for it? I wonder if it's a good idea to get both XLR to 1/4 and 1/8 in case I sell the cable or my portable rig since Qaudio does not sell the adapter individually ((

Still confused as to what brand mini to RCA I should use. Leaning towards Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3 Mini to RCA.  <--- not the place to ask but what the heck ^~^

If I were to use the Q audio cables with an SR71B, how would one do that?


----------



## tkteo

Best to ask Steve Eddy via PM. I think he is able to customize a mini to dual rca cable too.

Confession: I have ordered cables and adapter from Steve. I have not ordered from folks at Moon Audio.


----------



## WNBC

Another option for mini to RCA is Blue Jeans Cables here in Seattle, not too far from you.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> what brand mini to RCA I should use. Leaning towards Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3 Mini to RCA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Steve will be happy to make a custom adapter for you, just shoot him a PM.  He doesn't advertise it, but if you ask, he'll make it.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends

  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I would assume it's a good idea to get my cable terminated in 4pin XLR and get adapter cables for it? I wonder if it's a good idea to get both XLR to 1/4 and 1/8 in case I sell the cable or my portable rig since Qaudio does not sell the adapter individually
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Alghazanth

Just got the Q Audio today...amazing cable.


----------



## Girls Generation

alghazanth said:


> Just got the Q Audio today...amazing cable.




Terminated in........?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> Just got the Q Audio today...amazing cable.


 


  Excellent cable.  I can't go back the the stock cable now. Plus it's light as a feather.


----------



## Girls Generation

warriorant said:


> Excellent cable.  I can't go back the the stock cable now. Plus it's light as a feather.




Teriminated in what?  

Doing an unofficial survey on what termination people get on their cables, so that I'll know which I should get to get the easiest/most resal-ability/value


----------



## Radio_head

If you don't have a balanced amp getting a balanced termination would be kind of pointless...
  As far as resale, cables lose the most resale value than anything other than speakers, (you can usually recoup a decent amount reselling headphones or amps/dacs) but I have seen $800 SAA cables go used for 300.  I think the unspoken rule for fair sale price on them is 40% off.
  Rule of thumb I have found to be a truism is better to update headphones/amp/sometimes dac than cables.  Even if you are on the "cables make a difference" side of things, it should be the last tweak in your system.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Teriminated in what?
> 
> Doing an unofficial survey on what termination people get on their cables, so that I'll know which I should get to get the easiest/most resal-ability/value


 
  Mine is in 1/4. I'd say that's easily the most common for high end cans.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Rule of thumb I have found to be a truism is better to update headphones/amp/sometimes dac than cables.  Even if you are on the "cables make a difference" side of things, it should be the last tweak in your system.


 

 Agreed. Headphone cables are the icing on the cake.


----------



## dj nellie

I just got my ALO "Salty Pepper" 8-conductor SxC cable.  The look of the cable is stunning, the weave is tight and uniform, and the build quality seems to be clearly top notch (and it better be for the price I paid).
   
  The cable seems to have brought on immediately-noticeable, and substantial, sound quality improvements.  I haven't yet done a direct comparison with the stock cable, but I feel that I don't have to in order to hear better clarity and generally a more robust and authoritative sound.  Instrument separation and soundstage both seemed to have improved, with recordings feeling less congested and more realistic overall.  The sonic image just seems sharper and better-focused.
   
  Ergonomics are one area where ALO's cables have been criticized in the past, but I think that Ken has listened to the feedback.  The SxC cable feels lighter than the stock cable when I'm wearing the LCD-2s, although microphonics/cable noise can be heard if I tap the cable or the cable gets dragged against something.  However, I don't find this to be too distracting or annoying.
   
  I sent my TWag cable back to Craig (unnecessarily, it turned out), so I can't compare that with the ALO.  From memory, I would say that I noticed the ALO cable's enhancement of my listening experience more quickly and dramatically than with the TWag, but it could just be my imagination.  And I can't say whether the ALO cable sounds any better than some of the cheaper aftermarket cables out there, but so far I'm extremely satisfied with the crisp detail, power and refinement that it's added to my LCD-2s (rev. 1).
   
  Some pics (mediocre iPhone quality):


----------



## Shahrose

Got the Q-audio cable. Easy to hear the improvements over the latest stock cord. More holoraphic soundstaging and precise imaging, definitely tighter bass and less muddy sound.


----------



## Girls Generation

radio_head said:


> If you don't have a balanced amp getting a balanced termination would be kind of pointless...
> As far as resale, cables lose the most resale value than anything other than speakers, (you can usually recoup a decent amount reselling headphones or amps/dacs) but I have seen $800 SAA cables go used for 300.  I think the unspoken rule for fair sale price on them is 40% off.
> Rule of thumb I have found to be a truism is better to update headphones/amp/sometimes dac than cables.  Even if you are on the "cables make a difference" side of things, it should be the last tweak in your system.




If I would sell the cables, I would sell it with the LCD2 when I do because it's probably the only cable I will ever purchase. My setup doesn't consist of many cables or upgrades/tweaks. It's a portable set up: iPad -> Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3 LOD to USB -> CLAS -> Q-Audio mini to RCA -> Triad Audio L3 -> Q-Audio LCD2 cable -> LCD2.

Someone earlier said they got their cable terminated in 4pin XLR and got adapters for it (4pin XLR to 1/4 or 1/8) in case because retermination is a nuisance. If I do this, maybe in the far future when I do sell these LCD2, the cable will be of interest to a larger group of people since the LCD2 is mainly a desktop can. 


Another thought just passed my mind: What would happen if I had a 1/4 to mini adapter attached to a 1/4 to 4pin XLR which is attached to a 4pin XLR terminated cable?  That's two adapters. Do you think there will be a big chance of degradation through this?


^~^ forgive my dumb questions


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> Got the Q-audio cable. Easy to hear the improvements over the latest stock cord. More holoraphic soundstaging and precise imaging, definitely tighter bass and less muddy sound.


 


  Yep, same here. I notice a couple other things as well.


----------



## obazavil

If I want to connect my soon-to-be-bought LCD2 to Lyr... what Q cable should I get? mini XLR to 1/4?


----------



## olor1n

I'll be ordering my Q-Audio with the back of neck neurotransmitter termination (no headphones required)! I expect it to keep its resale value should I sell in future.


----------



## Covenant

Ok, I'll bite. Who is Q-Audio and why are they suddenly so popular with the LCD-2? Their site seems very spartan...


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





covenant said:


> Ok, I'll bite. Who is Q-Audio and why are they suddenly so popular with the LCD-2? Their site seems very spartan...


 


  Word of mouth I suppose... A few guys told me about it, I took the gamble (if you can call it that, what with the 30 day return policy), and I absolutely love it. And I usually have nothing to do with cables.
   
  AFAIK, everyone who has gotten one loves it. It's really worth it for the comfort alone.


----------



## Radio_head

Steve Eddy.  I'm not sure who started pushing them, I think WA was the main proponent.  He just keeps bringing them up as making a big difference and more and more people seem to be hopping on the bandwagon...
   
  Less time designing a website means more time designing products.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Steve Eddy.  I'm not sure who started pushing them, I think WA was the main proponent.  He just keeps bringing them up as making a big difference and more and more people seem to be hopping on the bandwagon...
> 
> Less time designing a website means more time designing products.


 

 Yea, this.
   
  I actually wanted a Norse cable some time back, and I think they still don't have a website.
   
  Then I got told about the Q by WA and a few others and jumped on that. Very glad I did.


----------



## Covenant

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> Word of mouth I suppose... A few guys told me about it, I took the gamble (if you can call it that, what with the 30 day return policy), and I absolutely love it. And I usually have nothing to do with cables.
> 
> AFAIK, everyone who has gotten one loves it. It's really worth it for the comfort alone.


 

 Comfort/ergonomics are a big selling point, for sure. That's the reason I'm trying to avoid buying the Norse 8-conductor cable 
   
   
  Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Less time designing a website means more time designing products.


 

 True.
   
  Does anyone know exactly what type of copper he's using for his cables? All he mentions is "pure copper", which doesn't tell me much.


----------



## Radio_head

Isn't Norse Trevor?  A PM would work.  I think his username is TigzStudio.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





covenant said:


> Comfort/ergonomics are a big selling point, for sure. That's the reason I'm trying to avoid buying the Norse 8-conductor cable
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know exactly what type of copper he's using for his cables? All he mentions is "pure copper", which doesn't tell me much.


 
  Yea, the LCD-2 could use as little extra weight as possible. Thankfully the Q is like a long piece of yarn.
   
  I think he detailed that a few pages back.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I'll be ordering my Q-Audio with the back of neck neurotransmitter termination (no headphones required)! I expect it to keep its resale value should I sell in future.


 

 I think Steve is going to be offering those at the end of the month.  Mini termination at the back of the neck.  He sends some sort of delivery device for injection and you're up and running. I think he calls the Q Implants.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





covenant said:


> Ok, I'll bite. Who is Q-Audio and why are they suddenly so popular with the LCD-2? Their site seems very spartan...


 


  http://www.q-audio.com/
   
  Scroll down to the headphone cable


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





covenant said:


> Does anyone know exactly what type of copper he's using for his cables? All he mentions is "pure copper", which doesn't tell me much.


 


  http://www.q-audio.com/details.html
   
  Type 2 Litz Wire.


----------



## Covenant

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> http://www.q-audio.com/
> 
> Scroll down to the headphone cable


 
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> http://www.q-audio.com/details.html
> 
> Type 2 Litz Wire.


 

 Yep, I'd seen/read both sections, I was looking to get information as to the actual kind of _conductor_ used.
   
  I've PM'ed Steve for more info.


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





covenant said:


> Ok, I'll bite. Who is Q-Audio and why are they suddenly so popular with the LCD-2? Their site seems very spartan...


 

  
  Some people who's ears and judgement are trusted here, had very nice experiences with the Q.
   
  Skylab tried an Alo, Norse, Q and Silver Dragon and preferred Steve's cable both in sound and ergonomics. (I'd love to see him compare these with a Double Helix macromolecule or molecule silver).
  More recently Warriorant made an excellent mini-review about the Q-cable in this topic, couple of weeks ago. (love to see him compare to a Double Helix too)
   
  What also helps I think, I that guys like Steve (Q-Audio) and Peter (Double Helix) are actually very active in this topic and other related ones. We audio people love to know the guys, personal service etc. etc.


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





covenant said:


> Yep, I'd seen/read both sections, I was looking to get information as to the actual kind of _conductor_ used.
> 
> I've PM'ed Steve for more info.


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/533209/lcd-2-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use/480#post_7521393


----------



## cavedave

This is what I have done. I took the stock cable and put a Furetch 1/4 inch plug instead of the one that came with the cable. Then I cut off the mini xlr connectors and removed the metal plugs in the wooden housing and replaced them with wooden plugs with holes in them. I then took off the screens and put the cable through the wooden plugs after removing the silver wires inside. Connect the postive and negative wires up to the correct tabs now they are wired direct. Believe me any short coming you had about the stock cable will be put behimd you in a second as soon as you listen to them. When these are wired direct the diffrenec is more then just a little. And you dont have to be thinking of I wont be able to change cables the sound is so good you will not care. If you thought these were good out of the box you have no idea how good they can be for those who want all they can get out of a already world class phone. After this tweek I would have to say it puts LCD2 right on the top of the heap.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> This is what I have done. I took the stock cable and put a Furetch 1/4 inch plug instead of the one that came with the cable. Then I cut off the mini xlr connectors and removed the metal plugs in the wooden housing and replaced them with wooden plugs with holes in them. I then took off the screens and put the cable through the wooden plugs after removing the silver wires inside. Connect the postive and negative wires up to the correct tabs now they are wired direct. Believe me any short coming you had about the stock cable will be put behimd you in a second as soon as you listen to them. When these are wired direct the diffrenec is more then just a little. And you dont have to be thinking of I wont be able to change cables the sound is so good you will not care. If you thought these were good out of the box you have no idea how good they can be for those who want all they can get out of a already world class phone. After this tweek I would have to say it puts LCD2 right on the top of the heap.


 

 Photos!


----------



## cavedave




----------



## olor1n

^ Ok, that looks sweet. Nice job cavedave.


----------



## cavedave

Thanks I did not want to take them apart to show the inside because they are wood and as such the screws tend to loosen after to many times. The wire just goes in to 2 metal tabs and there is a postive and negative pretty simple and man does it make a diffrence. Most likley not for every one as for my self i am really enjoying them now.
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> ^ Ok, that looks sweet. Nice job cavedave.


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





cavedave said:


>


 

 The combo of the red felt and the two lines in the circle make the cup look like an angry pac-man bent on revenge against the ghosts who have haunted him and force-fed him for so many years.


----------



## Loevhagen

What changed (aka improved)?
  
  Quote: 





cavedave said:


> ...Most likley not for every one as for my self i am really enjoying them now.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> Thanks I did not want to take them apart to show the inside because they are wood and as such the screws tend to loosen after to many times. The wire just goes in to 2 metal tabs and there is a postive and negative pretty simple and man does it make a diffrence. Most likley not for every one as for my self i am really enjoying them now.


 
  Any stress on the cable now at the connection inside or not a problem?


----------



## cavedave

Every thing you think you like about this headphone greatly improves by hard wiring them. They are more 3d and smoother all the way around. I do not find my self thinking I might be missing something through the cable. The whole stereo pecture is bigger and more solid.
  Taking an all ready great headphone and just making it better in a very good way. I am not saying you could not use another cable besides the one they came with. I have made several other cables but for this decided to use the stock one for various reasons. Any way worked out better then I would have thought. I did not really care for the mini xlr from the start. Using 4 little connectors to a system that is only 2 wires is a waste to me and just gets in the way of the signal. This headphones really thrive on a direct wire imput. More then any I have done.
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> What changed (aka improved)?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> Every thing you think you like about this headphone greatly improves by hard wiring them. They are more 3d and smoother all the way around. I do not find my self thinking I might be missing something through the cable. The whole stereo pecture is bigger and more solid.
> Taking an all ready great headphone and just making it better in a very good way. I am not saying you could not use another cable besides the one they came with. I have made several other cables but for this decided to use the stock one for various reasons. Any way worked out better then I would have thought. I did not really care for the mini xlr from the start. Using 4 little connectors to a system that is only 2 wires is a waste to me and just gets in the way of the signal. This headphones really thrive on a direct wire imput. More then any I have done.


 

 You see this is my experience and belief.  I've found that removing any unnecessary connector in the signal path after it leaves the amp can be crucial to the sound.  But people like to tell me that it shouldn't make a difference or that with everything that the signal has to go thru another chunk of metal and transformation won't make much difference.  But I know that once the signal finally leaves the amp and is on it's way to tickle your ear canal you don't want it to be interrupted any more than it has to be. From the amp to the transducer is pretty much the last transformation of the signals journey, especially with headphones.  I have heard the difference on speaker rigs by removing the spades and shortening the cable as much as possible.  I always believe my ears.  They have fed me, clothed  me, and put shelter over my head and my family.
   
  So I'm glad to see someone come forward and mention this, and actually verify this by doing it!  But you've given me the itch and I still need to see some close ups of the insides to do it my self.  Or, send it off to Steve Eddy to do....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Where is Steve anyway?  Swirling away in some current somewhere?


----------



## scootermafia

I would be very careful applying heat to the poles of the driver and use clip on heatsinks.  Remember than any of this stuff is going to void your warranty and hurt the resale value of the headphones.  I've modded headphones before and regretted it later, so sleep on anything you plan to do.


----------



## Radio_head

Its funny because of this.  
   
  And of course then there's this:
   
   




Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Hitchhiker's%20Guide%20Quotes



 

 "I have detected," he said, "disturbances in the wash." …
 "The wash?" said Arthur.
 "The space-time wash," said Ford. …
 Arthur nodded, and then cleared his throat. "Are we talking about," he asked cautiously, "some sort of Vogon laundromat, or what are we talking about?"
 "Eddies," said Ford, "in the space-time continuum."
 "Ah," nodded Arthur, "is he? Is he?" He pushed his hands into the pocket of his dressing gown and looked knowledgeably into the distance.
 "What?" said Ford.
 "Er, who," said Arthur, "is Eddy, then, exactly, then?"
 "There!" said Ford, shooting out his arm. "There, behind that sofa!"
 Arthur looked. Much to his surprise, there was a velvet paisley-covered Chesterfield sofa in the field in front of them. He boggled intelligently at it. Shrewd questions sprang into his mind.
 "Why," he said, "is there a sofa in that field?"
 "I told you!" shouted Ford, leaping to his feet. "Eddies in the space-time continuum!"
 "And this is his sofa, is it?" asked Arthur, struggling to his feet and, he hoped, though not very optimistically, to his senses.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Its funny because of this.
> 
> And of course then there's this:
> 
> ...


 
  That is funny!  I've also heard his drift speed is pretty slow...


----------



## cavedave

What is nice about the LCD 2 is you get no where near the drivers the tabs you connect to are out side the drivers and easy to solder to.
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I would be very careful applying heat to the poles of the driver and use clip on heatsinks.  Remember than any of this stuff is going to void your warranty and hurt the resale value of the headphones.  I've modded headphones before and regretted it later, so sleep on anything you plan to do.


----------



## scootermafia

Oh sure, the drivers are decently far away, still the heat from the soldering iron can travel up that contact to wherever if you solder too long, anything you do there you want to do fast, shall we say.


----------



## cavedave

Warrior Ant here is a picture of the inside simple stuff easy to do. I used hot melt glue to keep the cord from being pulled out.


----------



## Girls Generation

Would most agree that one should get his/her cable terminated in 1/4" because it is most common? 
One day I would like to go for balanced but the only balanced amp I will be using is an SR71B  which I have no clue what plug it uses atm: not enough research.
I was thinking terminated in 4pin XLR, then get adapters for it 4pin -> 1/4, and 4pin -> 1/8.... etc....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> Warrior Ant here is a picture of the inside simple stuff easy to do. I used hot melt glue to keep the cord from being pulled out.


 

 Nice!  Put some wood conditioner on the inside while you have it open.   How did you know which color wire to put where?


----------



## cavedave

I took the little xlr connector apart and checked with the little picture they give you with the headphones it shows + and - and I just desoldered the wires wrote down which was which.
  When you open the headphones they have marked the postive with red on one of the tabs. The little picture I was talking about is the little book they give you that tells about how they are wired.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice!  Put some wood conditioner on the inside while you have it open.   How did you know which color wire to put where?


----------



## grokit

So is there red felt lurking inside the black screen material or is that yours? Nice job cavedave.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Would most agree that one should get his/her cable terminated in 1/4" because it is most common?
> One day I would like to go for balanced but the only balanced amp I will be using is an SR71B
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Unless you need to go direct to an amp without the connectors, a mini 4-pin XLR plug is usually advisable.
   
  For your application it would be interesting to find out if the SR71B plug has a straight version and a female counterpart, then you would have the best of both options?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> I took the little xlr connector apart and checked with the little picture they give you with the headphones it shows + and - and I just desoldered the wires wrote down which was which.
> When you open the headphones they have marked the postive with red on one of the tabs. The little picture I was talking about is the little book they give you that tells about how they are wired.


 
  Next step.  Removing the 1/4 jack in the amp and wiring direct....


----------



## cavedave

That is something I put in there it is the same material that they came in the big box kinda like red silk. I took out the little piece of black fealt like stuff that they had.


----------



## cavedave

I have doen stuff like that and found the sound does not really improve and not being able to get it out when you want to take the headphones is not to good. There is not much I havent I tried at one time or another and some of them just not to smart. We live and learn.
  I would hope sometimes we continue to make the same mistakes I will save you the trouble on this one. Not a good idea.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Next step.  Removing the 1/4 jack in the amp and wiring direct....


----------



## Girls Generation

@grokit:

That's interesting. a mini 4pin xlr?  I need to do more research for sure -_- -sigh-


----------



## dj nellie

Girls Generation--IME, cables with balanced terminations can be hard to sell.  It seems the vast majority of the community still doesn't have, or doesn't believe in, balanced amps.  If you think you'll eventually get a balanced amp, then it's probably worth it to get a 4-pin termination and an adapter for whatever amp you currently have.  You can get an XLR adapter for the SR71b, I forget the name of the plug part but all the cable makers know it as "the RSA plug". 
   
  In the case of the LCD-2, I don't think you're taking that much of a risk since the cable is detachable and if you end up selling the headphones, the buyer can use whatever cable he wants.  As for the cable, you should expect to take a loss of close to half if you ever choose to sell, so buying used might be your best bet.
   
  Regarding cavedave's rewiring:  I'm wondering if someone can explain why direct-wiring a headphone would lead to better sound quality?  It makes sense from a layman's perspective--less barriers in the sound chain--but I'm wondering if there's more to it than that.  If it's really that noticeable, then why would both Sennheiser and Audeze make their flagships with detachable cables?  It's definitely nice to have the option to swap in whatever cable you want, but would they do that at the expense of substantial sonic degradation?


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> [...] Regarding cavedave's rewiring:  I'm wondering if someone can explain why direct-wiring a headphone would lead to better sound quality?  [...]


 
   
  To replace the "inferior" cable between the driver and the connector with a better cable is the logic. I remember reading recently that the cable used by Audeze for joining the two components is actually a high grade (if not pure) silver... but that won't stop people changing it to "improve" it 
   
  See this post for more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/533209/lcd-2-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use/825#post_7698323


----------



## scootermafia

The rationale for hardwiring is that you are removing two small pieces of gold plated brass from the signal chain, which are not physically joined, just connected - the pin of the earcup socket, and the cup of the cable connector.  Also you're removing the piece of silver connecting the socket to the driver's contacts, inside the earcup.  
   
  The downside is that if you break the cable in any way or want to try a different cable, it's quite a bit more involved to swap it out.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The rationale for hardwiring is that you are removing two small pieces of gold plated brass from the signal chain, which are not physically joined, just connected - the pin of the earcup socket, and the cup of the cable connector.  Also you're removing the piece of silver connecting the socket to the driver's contacts, inside the earcup.
> 
> The downside is that if you break the cable in any way or want to try a different cable, it's quite a bit more involved to swap it out.


 
  That is a big downside!


----------



## scootermafia

Plus you can't get on head-fi and be like "Bro, you GOTTA try this cable of mine, it's the shiznit..." then mail it to someone.  You can only tug half-heartedly at your permanently glued cable and cry tears of rage.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Plus you can't get on head-fi and be like "Bro, you GOTTA try this cable of mine, it's the shiznit..." then mail it to someone.  You can only tug half-heartedly at your permanently glued cable and cry tears of rage.


 
  People mail other people their cables to try out?


----------



## cavedave

you guys are funny. If you heard the diffrence between a hard wired pair of LCD2 and the way they come you would be the ones crying. I do not have the least desire to go back to the way they were there is no comparsion in the sound. I believe one of the reasons they give you the chance to change cables is it makes the headphone look more high tech to be able to switch the cable like all the big boys. If any of you really looked at the inside of the LCD2 you would see how silly the connection is in the first place. This headphone changed alot in a short period of time. I am amazed they did not change the connector or have a hard wired model for those who want the most out of this headphone. And some are right about the cable that comes with the headphone very good copper cable and one of the reasons for the house sound of the LCD2 the so called creamy midrange and one of the reasons why I used the stock cable in a pernamnet way. Not all headphones use cables that can be removed Denon and the king Sony for their top model hard wire and I am sure there are others. Many dont believe headphones are cool unless you can change the cable. And so people spend $ on cables and are never happy. Believe me the diffrence is so great when hard wired you would have no desire to go back and at the same time I would not tell others to do this simply because many just have to have something to complain about and no matter what will strain their little brains saying it could not work because to them it dont make sense. For those I would say buy the biggest cable possible and the one that cost the most $ and I am sure you will convince your self it sounds the best until the next thing comes along. In the mean time I will enjoy my headphones and in the future remenber to keep things to my self even if I thought it might help just one person knowing I am in a world where most are not wanting or really looking for help. They already know how it really is and dont think any thing could be better then the way they have always done it. And for those I say amen you must shurly be right.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I believe you cavedave!  No doubt in my mind that removing those connectors and wiring right up into the headphones is better. Like I was saying earlier the signal is on its final journey to the driver and does not need to be impeded by the transformation thru any extra medium such as the connector on the cables end and the connector in the headphone base. It's the last stage of a delicate journey and why should it be impeded?  All that extra metal can't help.    I'm just a chicken crap myself with absolutely NO soldering skills and can't do this myself other wise I would do it. 
   
  Is there a small compromise that might be made to the cables end? Instead of wiring and soldering directly to the posts can one of those removable connectors that look like they are bolted to the LCD be soldered to the end of the cable which would then make the removal and attachment of the cable more accessible?   Perhaps this one small extra amount would not denigrate the signal significantly?


----------



## cavedave

Hey WarriorAnt
  I am not sure what you mean tell you what send me a PM with your phone and I will call you if you want and explain a little better up to you though.
  Dave
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I believe you cavedave!  No doubt in my mind that removing those connectors and wiring right up into the headphones is better. Like I was saying earlier the signal is on its final journey to the driver and does not need to be impeded by the transformation thru any extra medium such as the connector on the cables end and the connector in the headphone base. It's the last stage of a delicate journey and why should it be impeded?  All that extra metal can't help.    I'm just a chicken crap myself with absolutely NO soldering skills and can't do this myself other wise I would do it.
> 
> Is there a small compromise that might be made to the cables end? Instead of wiring and soldering directly to the posts can one of those removable connectors that look like they are bolted to the LCD be soldered to the end of the cable which would then make the removal and attachment of the cable more accessible?   Perhaps this one small extra amount would not denigrate the signal significantly?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Cavedave,  The two connectors appear to be have nuts you can screw off. The plain one and the red one.  That's where you soldered right?   But can't those be unscrewed for removal?   This would make it possible to remove the cable neatly in the future right?  And if you has another pair of connectors one could actually use another cable.


----------



## cavedave

I would not remove those two little metal tabs. Like I said most really good headphones are hard wired. Like Sony MDR 10 the king. Many of the top phones are done this way and for good reason. I have about 10 or 15 hours on these now like this and all I can say is power full perfect clear beyond belief the perfect headphone. So real it is amazing they were good before now there are just amazing perfect in every way. One other thing the headphone in the picture here is not mine. These still have the metal connectors I have removed them to make a true hard wired connection.
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Cavedave,  The two connectors appear to be have nuts you can screw off. The plain one and the red one.  That's where you soldered right?   But can't those be unscrewed for removal?   This would make it possible to remove the cable neatly in the future right?  And if you has another pair of connectors one could actually use another cable.


----------



## WNBC

You have inspired me to listen to my stock headphone cable tonight and see if there is that house sound that is removed by using a different cable.
  I'm not opposed to the idea of a hard-wired LCD-2.  A SE LCD-2 for my Lyr and replaceable cable LCD-2 for the next Schiit amp.  Oops, I guess I just committed to another LCD-2 or LCD-3.
   
  So, are there companies that will hard-wire their own cable to headphones?  Seems easy for you technical guys.  Or I could take LCD-2 to local electronics shop and they could do it?  Just speculation of course that I would attempt this which is the fun of this thread.

  
  Quote: 





cavedave said:


> And some are right about the cable that comes with the headphone very good copper cable and one of the reasons for the house sound of the LCD2 the so called creamy midrange and one of the reasons why I used the stock cable in a pernamnet way. Not all headphones use cables that can be removed Denon and the king Sony for their top model hard wire and I am sure there are others.


----------



## grokit

^ Is that Parrots' LCD-2, it looks like his wire.


----------



## cavedave

All I really meant was some of what alot of people like about this headphone is about the cable. I found that when I tried other cables there was a diffrence as to weather it was better that would be up to the one doing the listening. I was always coming back to the stock cable but like many thought the headphone was capable of more. More does not begin to express what I am hearing. Sound stage in more front to back and side to side and 3 d like I have never heard. Like I said I would in no way change after hearing them this way they are on a whole new level. It is amazing what these are able to do with a solid connection. it is not hard to do if you can solder at all it is the most easy I have ever done. And I have hard wired many grados and even Sennheisers Denons these were the most easy to do and by far benfit more then all the others.
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> You have inspired me to listen to my stock headphone cable tonight and see if there is that house sound that is removed by using a different cable.
> I'm not opposed to the idea of a hard-wired LCD-2.  A SE LCD-2 for my Lyr and replaceable cable LCD-2 for the next Schiit amp.  Oops, I guess I just committed to another LCD-2 or LCD-3.
> 
> So, are there companies that will hard-wire their own cable to headphones?  Seems easy for you technical guys.  Or I could take LCD-2 to local electronics shop and they could do it?  Just speculation of course that I would attempt this which is the fun of this thread.


----------



## Girls Generation

cavedave said:


> All I really meant was some of what alot of people like about this headphone is about the cable. I found that when I tried other cables there was a diffrence as to weather it was better that would be up to the one doing the listening. I was always coming back to the stock cable but like many thought the headphone was capable of more. More does not begin to express what I am hearing. Sound stage in more front to back and side to side and 3 d like I have never heard. Like I said I would in no way change after hearing them this way they are on a whole new level. It is amazing what these are able to do with a solid connection. it is not hard to do if you can solder at all it is the most easy I have ever done. And I have hard wired many grados and even Sennheisers Denons these were the most easy to do and by far benfit more then all the others.




I would like to try what you did but like the other person said, I have absolutely zero experience in soldering, or handling delicate material. ~_~


----------



## cavedave

Do you have a set of LCD-2s ?
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I would like to try what you did but like the other person said, I have absolutely zero experience in soldering, or handling delicate material. ~_~


----------



## Loevhagen

No soldering experience = leave it alone. Or; practice soldering for a copule of weeks on non-essential parts...


----------



## Girls Generation

cavedave said:


> Do you have a set of LCD-2s ?




Not yet. I'm currently trying to decide on a portable amp to go with it besides a 15volt powered Stepdance (since I have already tried those)


----------



## Girls Generation

warriorant said:


> I believe you cavedave!  No doubt in my mind that removing those connectors and wiring right up into the headphones is better. *Like I was saying earlier the signal is on its final journey to the driver and does not need to be impeded by the transformation thru any extra medium such as the connector on the cables end and the connector in the headphone base. It's the last stage of a delicate journey and why should it be impeded?*  All that extra metal can't help.    I'm just a chicken crap myself with absolutely NO soldering skills and can't do this myself other wise I would do it.
> 
> Is there a small compromise that might be made to the cables end? Instead of wiring and soldering directly to the posts can one of those removable connectors that look like they are bolted to the LCD be soldered to the end of the cable which would then make the removal and attachment of the cable more accessible?   Perhaps this one small extra amount would not denigrate the signal significantly?




By that logic, I should NOT get a cable terminated in 1/4 and adapter to RSA plug... and instead just get my cable terminated in the RSA plug? I would've thought it wouldn't really make a difference.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ^ Is that Parrots' LCD-2, it looks like his wire.


 


  yeah that's there Parrots photo.  Only one I could find with an inside close up.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> All I really meant was some of what alot of people like about this headphone is about the cable. I found that when I tried other cables there was a diffrence as to weather it was better that would be up to the one doing the listening. I was always coming back to the stock cable but like many thought the headphone was capable of more. More does not begin to express what I am hearing. Sound stage in more front to back and side to side and 3 d like I have never heard. Like I said I would in no way change after hearing them this way they are on a whole new level. It is amazing what these are able to do with a solid connection. it is not hard to do if you can solder at all it is the most easy I have ever done. And I have hard wired many grados and even Sennheisers Denons these were the most easy to do and by far benfit more then all the others.


 
  Cavedave.   Toss up a website for an LCD upgrade mod and have people ship their LCD's to you and start and upgrade mod business.  You could make some nice side coin.  Of course I get a free upgrade mod for suggesting this idea...


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> By that logic, I should NOT get a cable terminated in 1/4 and adapter to RSA plug... and instead just get my cable terminated in the RSA plug? I would've thought it wouldn't really make a difference.


 


  I personally don't like to use adapters whenever possible, but then again I'm pretty much listening to my cans out of the same rig so haven't really had a need for them.  Terminate with whatever plug you think you'll use the majority of the time.


----------



## cavedave

I have already thought of the idea. But decided it is not something I think I would care to do. I dont mind doing my own but even though someone thinks they may want it done I know how people can be if they dont get somthing just right or perfect. Something to still think about though.
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Cavedave.   Toss up a website for an LCD upgrade mod and have people ship their LCD's to you and start and upgrade mod business.  You could make some nice side coin.  Of course I get a free upgrade mod for suggesting this idea...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cavedave said:


> I have already thought of the idea. But decided it is not something I think I would care to do. I dont mind doing my own but even though someone thinks they may want it done I know how people can be if they dont get somthing just right or perfect. Something to still think about though.


 


  when my LCD's fall out of warranty I'll send you a PM!


----------



## Girls Generation

equus said:


> I personally don't like to use adapters whenever possible, but then again I'm pretty much listening to my cans out of the same rig so haven't really had a need for them.  Terminate with whatever plug you think you'll use the majority of the time.




I'm 89% sure I'm going to go for cables terminated in RSA plug, with a RSA to 1/8" adapter incase I forget to charge my amp  It sounds like the fewer the interruptions the better, and so I think this will be my best choice [if I were to get an SR71B]


----------



## grokit

I like the idea of modular cable designs because it lets me easily switch to aftermarket cables for balanced amps without affecting the warranty or retail value. OTOH I always try to eliminate as many adapters as I can, to the point of getting a high-quality 1/4" male to 1/8" female extension so I don't have to use an adapter along with the extension. I do wish that there were better 1/8" female cable connectors available.


----------



## dj nellie

Just to be clear:  If you plan to use the SR71b (or any other balanced amp), the cable has to be wired for balanced.  You can't have a single-ended cable with an RSA plug adapter, the cable has to have either an RSA plug or XLR termination, and then you can use a separate adapter for single-ended use.  Any sonic degradation resulting from the use of adapters will be a trade-off for the flexibility to use different amps, but IME decent adapters won't lead to dramatically worse results.
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> By that logic, I should NOT get a cable terminated in 1/4 and adapter to RSA plug... and instead just get my cable terminated in the RSA plug? I would've thought it wouldn't really make a difference.


----------



## Girls Generation

dj nellie said:


> Just to be clear:  If you plan to use the SR71b (or any other balanced amp), the cable has to be wired for balanced.  You can't have a single-ended cable with an RSA plug adapter, the cable has to have either an RSA plug or XLR termination, and then you can use a separate adapter for single-ended use.  Any sonic degradation resulting from the use of adapters will be a trade-off for the flexibility to use different amps, but IME decent adapters won't lead to dramatically worse results.




I have decided to terminate my cables in RSA plug and get a 1/8" adapter for personal use. Screw resale value  I'm not going to let go of this set up > Unless my JH3A completely blows this out of the water. 


Now to research on how to feed the Sr71b a balanced input signal ..... CLAS to DB-2 to SR71B? :]~ I wonder if Steve can make a usb-Lod connector for CLAS and a Coaxial spdif to RCA balanced connector


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> You have inspired me to listen to my stock headphone cable tonight and see if there is that house sound that is removed by using a different cable.
> I'm not opposed to the idea of a hard-wired LCD-2.  A SE LCD-2 for my Lyr and replaceable cable LCD-2 for the next Schiit amp.  Oops, I guess I just committed to another LCD-2 or LCD-3.
> 
> So, are there companies that will hard-wire their own cable to headphones?  Seems easy for you technical guys.  Or I could take LCD-2 to local electronics shop and they could do it?  Just speculation of course that I would attempt this which is the fun of this thread.


 


  Not sure what it entails to cruelly rip that metal socket out of the wood, but it's not something you could pay me to do.


----------



## WNBC

Gotcha.  Just food for thought.  
  I was going to pay you $3,000,000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  All I would need is your bank account info so that I could send you the money from my account in Zambia.
  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Not sure what it entails to cruelly rip that metal socket out of the wood, but it's not something you could pay me to do.


----------



## Girls Generation

scootermafia said:


> Not sure what it entails to cruelly rip that metal socket out of the wood, but it's not something you could pay me to do.




I dont know why I just laughed so hard at your avatar.... I must be becoming an audiophile.... a year ago I would've thought 'What'...


----------



## scootermafia

GOOD SIR I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I like the idea of modular cable designs because it lets me easily switch to aftermarket cables for balanced amps without affecting the warranty or retail value. OTOH I always try to eliminate as many adapters as I can, to the point of getting a high-quality 1/4" male to 1/8" female extension so I don't have to use an adapter along with the extension. I do wish that there were better 1/8" female cable connectors available.


 
  You have more than one aftermarket cable?  Better send me the ones your'e not using...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You have more than one aftermarket cable?  Better send me the ones your'e not using...


 

 They all go to different headphones except my HD600 cables, I have three aftermarket cables for that one. Actually that is the only one that I don't have the stock cable for, I have an HD650 cable though so that makes four.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Gotcha.  Just food for thought.
> I was going to pay you $3,000,000
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think ScooterMafia throws in one of those Italian handbags for that price.  You should inquire.


----------



## tkteo

My Q-Audio "Natural Cotton Magic" and "Yellow Magic" cables arrived.


----------



## scootermafia

My manpurse is NOT a handbag...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> My manpurse is NOT a handbag...


 

 Its a really good portable rig bag, i must say


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> My manpurse is NOT a handbag...


 

 I forgot it's European.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


scootermafia said:


> My manpurse is NOT a handbag...


 

 It's not a man-purse, it's a satchel!
   
  Do you know if the hotel is pager-friendly?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> My Q-Audio "Natural Cotton Magic" and "Yellow Magic" cables arrived.


 

 So you did it!  You bought two pairs?   How do they sound?


----------



## tkteo

Wont know for a while yet. Playing a burn in track thru the lcd2 + natural cotton magic, while i am at work.


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I have decided to terminate my cables in RSA plug and get a 1/8" adapter for personal use. [...]


 
   
  I am sorry for not following... but what are you terminating into a RSA plug (presumably two)?
  Surely not your 'phone cable?


----------



## Girls Generation

hero kid said:


> I am sorry for not following... but what are you terminating into a RSA plug (presumably two)?
> Surely not your 'phone cable?




I'm terminating Qaudio's LCD2 cable in RSA, and hopefully a female RSA plug exists so I can get an RSA to mini adapter for amps other than SR71B


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So you did it!  You bought two pairs?   How do they sound?


 
  More than that, which sounds better?  I'm sure the dye has to have a sonic effect...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I mean, I have the black cable and I swear it sounds darker...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  All in good fun...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I'm terminating Qaudio's LCD2 cable in RSA, and hopefully a female RSA plug exists so I can get an RSA to mini adapter for amps other than SR71B


 


  OK, I know I'm talking out of both sides of my virtual mouth (call it a talent), but there's part of me that wonders if you'd be better off terminating into XLR and getting an adapter for the SR71b, if that's possible.  Unless you're sure you're not going to grab a balanced desktop down the line, or are ok with the idea of potentially purchasing a new cable in that eventuality.  While the RSA portable (can't remember what it was...maybe a Protector) I heard the LCD-2 out of a while back sounded surprisingly good to my ears for the form factor, I would say the LCD-2 lends itself to a full-size desktop.


----------



## Girls Generation

equus said:


> OK, I know I'm talking out of both sides of my virtual mouth (call it a talent), but there's part of me that wonders if you'd be better off terminating into XLR and getting an adapter for the SR71b, if that's possible.  Unless you're sure you're not going to grab a balanced desktop down the line, or are ok with the idea of potentially purchasing a new cable in that eventuality.  While the RSA portable (can't remember what it was...maybe a Protector) I heard the LCD-2 out of a while back sounded surprisingly good to my ears for the form factor, I would say the LCD-2 lends itself to a full-size desktop.




I've been told that I should eliminate as many interruptions as possible... Which is why I'm going for the rsa termination.. Let me ask more people


----------



## Equus

I would agree, but I also think that long term a desktop amp may be the way to go.  If you think you'll live with the RSA for a good long time, then that's totally cool.  Like I've said before, I really don't like adapters too much, but it all depends on if you're going to want to "upgrade" to a desktop further down the line.


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> More than that, which sounds better?  I'm sure the dye has to have a sonic effect...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well I do prefer a brighter sound so the yellow and light beige (of the natural cotton) should do the trick! And the yellow imparts a sunny mood; the natural is more friendly (environmentally).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Well I do prefer a brighter sound so the yellow and light beige (of the natural cotton) should do the trick! And the yellow imparts a sunny mood; the natural is more friendly (environmentally).


 
  Mine are black, I think I'm going to tie dye them.


----------



## Girls Generation

equus said:


> I would agree, but I also think that long term a desktop amp may be the way to go.  If you think you'll live with the RSA for a good long time, then that's totally cool.  Like I've said before, I really don't like adapters too much, but it all depends on if you're going to want to "upgrade" to a desktop further down the line.




I am actually quitensure I won't be upgrading to a desktop amp at all. And since the 71b in balanced mode is one of the top, I won't be upgrading amps as well. I have a limited budget for audio gear and this will probably be my last major purchase.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Well I do prefer a brighter sound so the yellow and light beige (of the natural cotton) should do the trick! And the yellow imparts a sunny mood; the natural is more friendly (environmentally).


 
  LOL!


----------



## tkteo

So far so good. Also picked up a Marantz SA KI Pearl Lite today. (Equivalent to the SA-8004.) Unplugged the impedance adapter that I had left plugged in to use with 32ohms Grados.
   
  Result: After these changes to the source and signal chain, I think the sound is less muddy now. And slightly more thump to the bass, yeah.


----------



## Loevhagen

A picture taken today of the Q audio cable for the LCD-2s. Flexible and "that no-wire feeling". Let's you get tangled in the music and not the cable...
   

   
  LCD-2 (left) and HiFiMAN (right). Posted just for comparison.


----------



## Girls Generation

What do you guys think of the TWag v2 ? I haven't seen much talk about it at all.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> A picture taken today of the Q audio cable for the LCD-2s. Flexible and "that no-wire feeling". Let's you get tangled in the music and not the cable...


 
   
  Noob question: If I want that Q cable for LCD-2 and Lyr (I guess the same reqs as those in the picture), what options should I select from the Q website? 1/4 for the Lyr, but for the headphone is...?


----------



## Loevhagen

Headphone = Audeze LCD-2
  Termination = 1/4" TRS
   
  When you select the Audeze, you get the mini-4-pin XLR shown in the picture.
   
  That's it.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Headphone = Audeze LCD-2
> Termination = 1/4" TRS
> 
> When you select the Audeze, you get the mini-4-pin XLR shown in the picture.
> ...


 

 thanks!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Don't be afraid to get a long length.  The cable is so flexible and light it lays easily.


----------



## Girls Generation

warriorant said:


> 1/4  and then select LCD on the website and then the length.    If you still feel unsure PM Steve Eddy he'll help you out.




What termination and adapter do you use?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Don't be afraid to get a long length.  The cable is so flexible and light it lays easily.


 


  yeah.... what length do you guys use with your Q?
   
  2m? more? less?


----------



## Loevhagen

1,5m. The amp is on the table adjacent to the chair.


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ... (Jun 19, 2020)

...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> yeah.... what length do you guys use with your Q?
> 
> 2m? more? less?


 

 I'm using 3 Meters.


----------



## Alghazanth

3m w/ 1/4 here and still don't notice it.


----------



## tkteo

2m plus a 4-pin XLR to 1/4 plug adapter.


----------



## Girls Generation

Oops I mean... Twag vs. Alo silver...


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  a female plug exists, but only the kind made to be soldered to boards, or into amps.. here is a photo of a cable i made for someone that wanted something like this.
   
  it was not easy to make, and I wouldnt do it again, but it worked.    Honestly i wouldnt recommend it, besides the fact that making one is literally like cramming a sqare block into a round hole, you also have the right angle configuration of the rsa going up against the straight female end.. its awkward...
   

   
   
   
  also, my take on "sound quality loss" when terminating to a mini xlr that allows you to switch out your termination (which is what i did) is that well.. ALO, q audio, moon audio, and others all offer this configuration.. so there are two scenarios here... it indeed does cause loss, in which case you could probably ask them and they would know it but i'd be surprised that they would make a cable knowing it degraded the sound... or.. it doesnt degrade the sound and they could confirm that for you as well.
   
  i frankly didnt give it a second thought.  i made the cable i wanted and never looked back.  I'm very happy with how my rig sounds. the end.


----------



## scootermafia

It's ridiculously hard to truly prove to yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt that an adapter has compromised your sound.  Given the complexity of the circuit boards in your gear, it's pretty unlikely that an adapter can singlehandedly crap in your cornflakes.  Good luck being sure on that one - I tend not to worry about stuff like that.  The choice of wire in the headphone cable is going to be what you will actually be hearing, that I can reliably say that I am able to differentiate.  
   
  If you try a variety of threaded barrels (barrels to RCAs, barrels to mini plugs) many of them will cut into the plastic of the female RSA socket and let you screw it in no problem.  You can also machine away some of the extraneous plastic on the plug to make it fit better.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> It's ridiculously hard to truly prove to yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt that an adapter has compromised your sound.  Given the complexity of the circuit boards in your gear, it's pretty unlikely that an adapter can singlehandedly crap in your cornflakes.  Good luck being sure on that one - I tend not to worry about stuff like that.  The choice of wire in the headphone cable is going to be what you will actually be hearing, that I can reliably say that I am able to differentiate.
> 
> If you try a variety of threaded barrels (barrels to RCAs, barrels to mini plugs) many of them will cut into the plastic of the female RSA socket and let you screw it in no problem.  You can also machine away some of the extraneous plastic on the plug to make it fit better.


 

 I'm never going to eat cornflakes again!  I never even imagined something like that could happen to my cornflakes.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The choice of wire in the headphone cable is going to be what you will actually be hearing, that I can reliably say that I am able to differentiate.


 

 I think wire geometry is much more important, and everyone will hear cables differently because everyone has a different system, different ears, and a different brain.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> I think wire geometry is much more important, and everyone will hear cables differently because everyone has a different system, different ears, and a different brain.


 

 My system really responds to cable changes much more than I had expected it would or could.  Each cable change I made from USB cable, to balanced cable from DAC to amp and the from amp to headphones was an added improvement.  Was going to try a power cord from Shunyata this weekend but they sent the wrong size IEC.


----------



## Girls Generation

I wonder if getting the cable terminated in mini 4pin xlr and getting adapters from there will be a better idea than having it terminated in RSA plug and asking one to go out of his way to make an adapter with a female RSA... :|


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I wonder if getting the cable terminated in mini 4pin xlr and getting adapters from there will be a better idea than having it terminated in RSA plug and asking one to go out of his way to make an adapter with a female RSA... :|


 


   
  for a small fee i could drill a precisely placed hole in your head and you'd immediately and permanently lose all interest in such things... pm me for pics of the drill...
   
  ... that said, the answer to your question is yes.


----------



## drez

If you are really obsessed over minimising number of soldered joints you can always reterminate the cable in the future.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





br777 said:


> for a small fee i could drill a precisely placed hole in your head and you'd immediately and permanently lose all interest in such things... pm me for pics of the drill...
> 
> ... that said, the answer to your question is yes.


 

 lol
  
  Quote: 





drez said:


> If you are really obsessed over minimising number of soldered joints you can always reterminate the cable in the future.


 

 Yeah, I think people obsess over that fact too much.  A lot of people shun the idea of using a balanced to single ended adapter but if you actually measure with a multimeter the difference in resistance it makes you'll see that it's negligible.  Obviously depending on the wire and geometry used it will vary but it shouldn't be more than 0.1 - 0.3 ohms if you have a good solder joint and the plating on the contact pins is of good quality.


----------



## swbf2cheater

Quote: 





br777 said:


> for a small fee i could drill a precisely placed hole in your head and you'd immediately and permanently lose all interest in such things... pm me for pics of the drill...
> 
> ... that said, the answer to your question is yes.


 
   
  Epic.
   
  I'm using a Q audio 3.5ft black cable with 1/8 termination, its really nice.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Yeah, I think people obsess over that fact too much.  A lot of people shun the idea of using a balanced to single ended adapter but if you actually measure with a multimeter the difference in resistance it makes you'll see that it's negligible.  Obviously depending on the wire and geometry used it will vary but it shouldn't be more than 0.1 - 0.3 ohms if you have a good solder joint and the plating on the contact pins is of good quality.


 

 I myself have no problem using a good quality SE adapter for my balanced cables.  I use a 1-foot APS V3 SE to 4-pin XLR, and when I compared this with HD600 and balanced cable to my APS V3 single ended cable there was no difference in sound signature at all.  When I compared my LCD-2 with Silver Dragon cable on my ZDT using the 4-pin XLR, and then again with single ended adapter on the ZDT there was no difference in sound signature whatsoever.  So, I get all my new cables with a 4-pin XLR, and if I need to use it single ended I just grab the APS adapter.


----------



## hngls

Just ordered these new 4 wire Litz from TigzStudio


----------



## WNBC

Whoa, whoa, whoa, that looks great and more flexible than their older design.  That's a new option, great.  Just found additional pics on their Facebook page.  I'm going to ask Trevor about pricing because I like my current cable but would definitely order another one if at same price just for the additional comfort. 
   
  Quote: 





hngls said:


> Just ordered these new 4 wire Litz from TigzStudio


----------



## olor1n

Not a fan of that chunk of wood for the Y split. Is there an option to forgo it?


----------



## WNBC

These are the ones Trevor had in stock a couple months ago (the ones on the right are the non-adjustable smaller ones).  He may have since got new ones.  You could ask for something different but I think the Y split is needed or else the 4 strands could potentially come undone.
  

   
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Not a fan of that chunk of wood for the Y split. Is there an option to forgo it?


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Not a fan of that chunk of wood for the Y split. Is there an option to forgo it?


 


  Step 1: Buy a beaver.
  Step 2: Show beaver the cable.
  Step 3: Wait.
  Step 4: Make beaver into hat.
  Step 5: Cable is done.
   
  Since Trevor's putting them on there after braiding the cables, I'd be pretty confident that they can be opted out of.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> These are the ones Trevor had in stock a couple months ago (the ones on the right are the non-adjustable smaller ones).  He may have since got new ones.  You could ask for something different but I think the Y split is needed or else the 4 strands could potentially come undone.


 


  The way a 4 wire braid works, it can't just come undone on its own or even naturally.  However, you could just grab the 2 strands of one of the earcup wires near the y split and pull, and it might mess with it a bit.  Pretty much the alternative is logo shrink or a Viablue y split cover.  I've had plenty of cables with nothing covering the y split and it isn't a huge deal though...


----------



## WNBC

How about the beaver as the splitter with right and left channels coming thru the ears and the cable thru -- well you know the rest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Step 1: Buy a beaver.
> Step 2: Show beaver the cable.
> Step 3: Wait.
> Step 4: Make beaver into hat.
> ...


 

 You are right, nothing short of divine intervention or a bored 4 year old will undo the cable past the split point.
   
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The way a 4 wire braid works, it can't just come undone on its own or even naturally.  However, you could just grab the 2 strands of one of the earcup wires near the y split and pull, and it might mess with it a bit.  Pretty much the alternative is logo shrink or a Viablue y split cover.  I've had plenty of cables with nothing covering the y split and it isn't a huge deal though...


----------



## scootermafia

You have a way with words.  Let's be friends.
   
  Edit: and Tigz, I'm sorry for making fun of your wood splitters.  They're definitely the nicest I've seen out there.


----------



## hngls

ha ha... pretty sure that the wood splitters are an option and can be done away with completely and you would have to BYO....in regards to the beaver option


----------



## Red Jacket Mike

You can also order the splitters plain, without any logo or carving on them, if you wish.


----------



## dyl1dyl

alo salty peppers


----------



## kwkarth

Also the Q-cable, the original litz solution.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Step 1: Buy a beaver.
> Step 2: Show beaver the cable.
> Step 3: Wait.
> Step 4: Make beaver into hat.
> ...


 


  You should name one of your cables The Beaver Split. I'd buy it.


----------



## scootermafia

Put this on a cable.  The stuff nightmares are made of.


----------



## TigzStudio

Figured I would post to clear a few things up in regards to the questions posed in this thread.
   
   
   
  Splitters are just an option, you can get a cable without them
   
  The breakout does not come untwisted, it takes a fair amount of effort to do so
   
   
   
  In regards to the beaver thing, very funny 
   
  If you don't want a beaver to eat your cable simply choose not to have a splitter put on.


----------



## TigzStudio

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> You have a way with words.  Let's be friends.
> 
> Edit: and Tigz, I'm sorry for making fun of your wood splitters.  They're definitely the nicest I've seen out there.


 

 Thank you.  The splitters actually do take a significant amount of labor.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Put this on a cable.  The stuff nightmares are made of.


 


  that is truly hideous


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Put this on a cable.  The stuff nightmares are made of.


 

 Can i get this on a cable?
  
  Quote: 





drez said:


> that is truly hideous


 

 You mean hilarious?


----------



## WNBC

Just ordered myself.  Will post impressions in the upcoming weeks.  For kicks listened to the stock cable tonight because it's never been out of its plastic envelope.  Not a bad cable but doesn't get across the transparency of the LCD via the Norse cable.  The stock cable does do justice to the LCD mids and low end but speed and higher frequencies are not its strengths.  
   
  In any case, 6 months ago I would have been a skeptic of the role of headphone cables but now I'm a true believer that the good cables get out of the way and allow our cans to live up to their full potential.  It's one of those things we just have to experience.  What's next?  There may be a big hamster in the sky!  Edit:  Big Beaver in the Sky
  
  Quote: 





hngls said:


> Just ordered these new 4 wire Litz from TigzStudio


----------



## USAudio

I understand all these aftermarket headphone cable assemblers have to cover their overhead, R&D costs, labor, etc. but out of curiosity and excluding all those other costs, what are the *actual material costs* for a headphone cable?
  Connectors, solder and cabling ... how much do those materials cost *approximately* ?


----------



## scootermafia

Not that bad.  You can build the vast majority of cable types, even really nice ones, for <$200.  Super high end XLR and RCA connectors are the real price killer.  Try the Valab brand connectors on ebay (you'll have to poke around vintage audio lab's list of items for sale since they are really bad about titling their auctions clearly), really nice rhodium-plated, pure copper, carbon fiber trimmed stuff for very cheap, and it's killer quality.


----------



## USAudio

Would it work to use decent woven speaker cable to make a headphone cable, like Kimber 4TC or even 4PR?  http://www.kimber.com/products/loudspeakercables/
  Anyone try this?  Maybe the cabling would be too thick?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Would it work to use decent woven speaker cable to make a headphone cable, like Kimber 4TC or even 4PR?  http://www.kimber.com/products/loudspeakercables/
> Anyone try this?  Maybe the cabling would be too thick?


 

 I wouldn't try that if i were you. Those are *really *nice speaker cables, what do they cost?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Also the Q-cable, the original litz solution.


 

 I was just acting out for my wife how electron drift, skin effect and copper purity come into play.  She was amused.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I was just acting out for my wife how electron drift, skin effect and copper purity come into play.  She was amused.


 

 Yep, I know whereof you speak.  It amuses some and bores others...  Oh, that everyone was a headphone nut and could understand...


----------



## scootermafia

People have made Kimber headphone cables.  They were the first to sell the "braided cable" look.


----------



## Currawong

The Kimber woven speaker cable I've seen was quite stiff, much more so than similar guage headphone cables I've owned, so I am not sure how comfortable it would be. Might be interesting to try though.


----------



## scootermafia

Yeah, it's handy that it's already an 8 wire braid.  I'd love to hear their top 8 wire silver as an Audeze cable, but the cable packs a full 9 gauge worth of wire, not sure you could fit it...perhaps their interconnect cables would be the best.


----------



## USAudio

Where do these aftermarket headphone cable makers get their smaller gauge braided headphone cabling? 
  Or do they braid it themselves?


----------



## cifani090

Quote:


usaudio said:


> Where do these aftermarket headphone cable makers get their smaller gauge braided headphone cabling?
> Or do they braid it themselves?


 

 They buy it, or they handbraid it or have a machine do it.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Quote:
> 
> They buy it...


 
  WHERE do they buy it from?  Anyone know of any suppliers where I could buy some directly from?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> WHERE do they buy it from?  Anyone know of any suppliers where I could buy some directly from?


 

HERE! Be careful of others because they dont use OCC wire, which is like going to HD and buying some crappy copper wire.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> HERE! Be careful of others because they dont use OCC wire, which that is like going to HD and buying some crappy copper wire.


 

 You don't know of what you speak.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> HERE! Be careful of others because they dont use OCC wire, which that is like going to HD and buying some crappy copper wire.


 

 Anyone else have any suggested sources of headphone wire?  Not completed headphone cables with terminations, etc., but just the wiring itself.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





currawong said:


> You don't know of what you speak.


 

 Fix it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some companies tho downgraded their wire from OCC to crappier copper wire.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Fix it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What exactly is the "problem" with the so-called "crappier copper wire"?
   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Rumor has it Steve Eddy collects fallen meteorites found in the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, and Mexico and then deep down in the sub basement of his home he smelts away the ancient rock until only the metals within remain. He then slowly cools them with a secret process spinning off the very top of the vat into fine hair like strands, whereupon assistants brought in from deep within the amazon jungle quickly braid the wire and spool it while facing true North.


----------



## Girls Generation

warriorant said:


> Rumor has it Steve Eddy collects fallen meteorites found in the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, and Mexico and then deep down in the sub basement of his home he smelts away the ancient rock until only the metals within remain. He then slowly cools them with a secret process spinning off the very top of the vat into fine hair like strands, whereupon assistants brought in from deep within the amazon jungle quickly braid the wire and spool it while facing true North.




Really? Wow, I wonder what kind of metal that is... Do other people kind of do these things for their cables too or only Steve Eddy?


----------



## xxhaxx

Must be unobtainium


----------



## scootermafia

My philosophy is, if you can afford it, and it's the best upgrade for you at the time, then try it.  If you can't hear the difference with a "better" wire then don't worry about it and don't bother.  It's only worth it if it makes you happy.  Very few upgrades, historically, have made me happy.


----------



## Girls Generation

scootermafia said:


> My philosophy is, if you can afford it, and it's the best upgrade for you at the time, then try it.  If you can't hear the difference with a "better" wire then don't worry about it and don't bother.  It's only worth it if it makes you happy.  Very few upgrades, historically, have made me happy.




Nothings made me happy. I've yet to receive the JH3A and have recently refrained from getting an LCD2 rig.... I UNHAPPY


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> My philosophy is, if you can afford it, and it's the best upgrade for you at the time, then try it.  If you can't hear the difference with a "better" wire then don't worry about it and don't bother.  It's only worth it if it makes you happy.  Very few upgrades, historically, have made me happy.


 


  Cough... RS Silver...cough


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> What exactly is the "problem" with the so-called "crappier copper wire"?
> 
> se


 

 Its not good enough for the "_____(where the title comes in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




(maybe Audiophilia Boy or something)" .
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Rumor has it Steve Eddy collects fallen meteorites found in the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, and Mexico and then deep down in the sub basement of his home he smelts away the ancient rock until only the metals within remain. He then slowly cools them with a secret process spinning off the very top of the vat into fine hair like strands, whereupon assistants brought in from deep within the amazon jungle quickly braid the wire and spool it while facing true North.


 

 Wow, nice story. It must be silver/meteorite wire with special space connectors!


----------



## Girls Generation

cifani090 said:


> Wow, nice story. It must be silver/meteorite wire with special space connectors!




Kryptonite?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Kryptonite?


 

 Perfect!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Its not good enough for the "_____(where the title comes in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 In other words, you were being sarcastic?
   
  se


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> In other words, you were being sarcastic?
> 
> se


 

 No, its like saying is a BMW (crappy copper) a Lambo (OCC copper)? Is it? Thats the difference with the two types of copper.


----------



## Girls Generation

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a BMW and I bet you my supercharged M3 can beat a Lambo.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Kryptonite?


 

 No, but playback of Holst's Planets is like nothing else you've ever heard...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> No, its like saying is a BMW (crappy copper) a Lambo (OCC copper)? Is it? Thats the difference with the two types of copper.


 
   
  That's utterly meaningless. Let's talk in terms of copper, not automobiles.
   
  I ask again, what exactly is the "problem" with the so-called "crappy copper"?
   
  If you can't provide a meaningful answer to that question, then I don't see how anyone can take your statement as being anything more than meaningless.
   
  se


----------



## obazavil

One silly question, I hope you guys can answer...
   
  Let's suppose I want to have 2 setups:
   
  1) Home - Lyr + DAC (unbalanced)
   
  2) Portable - Balanced SR-71B (balanced)
   
  If I get the Q cables I see I can finish them to 1/4, 1/8, 4-pin XLR or dual 3-pin XLR.
   
  Can I use the same Q cable from headphones to one termination that works for both balanced/unbalanced, and from there swap from that termination (let's say XLR) to 1/4 or RSA balanced?
   
  ... or I must get 2 different cables if I want to do that?
   
  Thanks and be gentle, I'm an absolute noob


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> That's utterly meaningless. Let's talk in terms of copper, not automobiles.
> 
> I ask again, what exactly is the "problem" with the so-called "crappy copper"?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Im guessing you haven't read this?


----------



## scootermafia

You can't go from 1/4" BACK to 4pin or 3 pin XLR.  That's because if the cable is terminated in 1/4" the ground wires for left & right are joined.  You can however go with a 4 pin XLR as the headphone cabl'es termination...then use adapters to go to 3 pin dual xlr or 1/4".


----------



## obazavil

So I can go LCD-2 -> 4-pin XLR
   
  and from there:
   
  4-pin XLR -> 1/4 for unbalanced
  4-pin XLR -> Kobiconn Iris (RSA balanced connector)
   
  Any sound difference btw 4-pin XLR and mini 4-pin XLR?
   
  (I guess not, just want to be sure)


----------



## scootermafia

Not that I'm aware of.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Im guessing you haven't read this?


 
  To be sure, this is not news.  Ohno's work has been around since the late '80's.  Question for you...
  What is the difference in resistance between two 2m lengths of copper @ 24 AWG, one, Ohno, and one "conventional" "crappy" copper?  Is the difference audible when driving a 50 ohm load?
   
  Is not wire geometry and dielectric characteristic far more important in terms of audibility, longevity, and aesthetic considerations?


----------



## HK_sends

I don't care if the cable is made with Magic Fru-Fru dust from Beta Regula, I only know that I have been able to hear distinct differences in the cables I have used and after trying many brands with various "specialty wire types", I have finally found a cable that actually "gets out of the way" and doesn't adversely hinder the sound from my other components (or, conversely, makes the other components sound "that" much better).
   
  My hat goes off to "he-who-must-not-be-named" as well as all other cable makers/vendors who are just doing their part in trying to provide options to those of us that favor a particular sound.  I found mine...good luck finding yours...
  By the way, does it really matter what the cable is made of when it is the sound that counts?  I mean, will the sound going through crappy or ultra pure wire be any better if our ears are full of wax? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with a BMW and I bet you my supercharged M3 can beat a Lambo.


 

  
  I'm more inclined to go for the Rolls Royce Convertible myself.  Just can't beat the beautiful sound the doors make when you close them.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm more inclined to go for the Rolls Royce Convertible myself.  Just can't beat the beautiful sound the doors make when you close them.


 

 No doubt it's due to the Ohno copper used in the RR coachwork.


----------



## HK_sends

It's funny that someone mentioned  Lamborghinis...they tend to have incredible sound systems...in order to raise the volume above the level of engine noise...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I don't care if the cable is made with Magic Fru-Fru dust from Beta Regula, I only know that I have been able to hear distinct differences in the cables I have used and after trying many brands with various "specialty wire types", I have finally found a cable that actually "gets out of the way" and doesn't adversely hinder the sound from my other components (or, conversely, makes the other components sound "that" much better).
> 
> My hat goes off to "he-who-must-not-be-named" as well as all other cable makers/vendors who are just doing their part in trying to provide options to those of us that favor a particular sound.  I found mine...good luck finding yours...
> By the way, does it really matter what the cable is made of when it is the sound that counts?  I mean, will the sound going through crappy or ultra pure wire be any better if our ears are full of wax?
> ...


 
  I do a routine of Debrox and then Auro-Dri.  That can really help when you want your ears to resound unimpeded.   Nothing can help the "I need to see graphs so I can see what I think I might be hearing" crowd though.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


warriorant said:


> I do a routine of Debrox and then Auro-Dri.  That can really help when you want your ears to resound unimpeded.   Nothing can help the "I need to see graphs so I can see what I think I might be hearing" crowd though.


 
  Is that safer than Liquid-Plumr? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (Seriously kids, do NOT try this at home...)
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Im guessing you haven't read this?


 

 Sure have.
   
  All it says is that if you use a tiny fraction more "crappy copper," you'll get the same result as if you used a tiny fraction less OCC copper.
   
  se


----------



## cifani090

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> To be sure, this is not news.  Ohno's work has been around since the late '80's.  Question for you...
> What is the difference in resistance between two 2m lengths of copper @ 24 AWG, one, Ohno, and one "conventional" "crappy" copper?  Is the difference audible when driving a 50 ohm load?
> 
> Is not wire geometry and dielectric characteristic far more important in terms of audibility, longevity, and aesthetic considerations?


 

 The resistance in OCC wire @ 24 GW is significantly lower than say 24 GW CDA-101 copper wire. I personally find a difference audibly with each of the wires.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm more inclined to go for the Rolls Royce Convertible myself.  Just can't beat the beautiful sound the doors make when you close them.


 

 Me too, better sound, and comfort!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Quote:
> 
> The resistance in OCC wire @ 24 GW is significantly lower than say 24 GW CDA-101 copper wire.


 

 What exactly are you defining as "significantly"? Put a number on it.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Sure have.
> 
> All it says is that if you use a tiny fraction more "crappy copper," you'll get the same result as if you used a tiny fraction less OCC copper.
> 
> se


 
  Non linearly, though.  Multiple insulated conductors, conducting in parallel (say, about 150 of 'em) will ameliorate those non linearities to the point of being superior to a single strand of OCC.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Quote:
> 
> The resistance in OCC wire @ 24 GW is significantly lower than say 24 GW CDA-101 copper wire. I personally find a difference audibly with each of the wires.


 

 Significantly?  How much exactly?


----------



## Girls Generation

Random question: What do you guys think of VH Audio's Pulsar AG silver 75ohm wire?


----------



## cifani090

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> What exactly are you defining as "significantly"? Put a number on it.
> 
> se


 

 Im not a big number kind of guy. I bet someone can find that and post it


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Non linearly, though.  Multiple insulated conductors, conducting in parallel (say, about 150 of 'em) will ameliorate those non linearities to the point of being superior to a single strand of OCC.


 
   
  What nonlinearities?
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Im not a big number kind of guy. I bet someone can find that and post it


 
   
  If you don't know what the numbers are, then how can you possibly call it "significant"?
   
  That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Non linearly, though.  Multiple insulated conductors, conducting in parallel (say, about 150 of 'em) will ameliorate those non linearities to the point of being superior to a single strand of OCC.


 
  So...165 strands of, say...46 gauge wire would be equivalent to a 24 gauge solid wire core and still manage to perform as a good, if not better, than a single strand of OCC?
   
  Say it ain't so!
  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

I don't know...I haven't tried it.  My system doesn't handle silver wire well for my tastes.  I did try the Moon Audio Silver Dragon a while back and found it a bit bright with little or no bass extension.  Of course after I got rid of it, someone told me I needed to burn it in a while for the sound to open up in the low-end.  Ah, well...live and learn.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Random question: What do you guys think of VH Audio's Pulsar AG silver 75ohm wire?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> So...165 strands of, say...46 gauge wire would be equivalent to a 24 gauge solid wire core and still manage to perform as a good, if not better, than a single strand of OCC?
> 
> Say it ain't so!
> -HK sends


 

 Yup.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, then...I may just have to go with that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yup.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> What nonlinearities?
> 
> se


----------



## TigzStudio

Really people should be happy that new and well thought out products are coming to market. 
   
  Specifications are a starting point to direct purchase decisions (prior to becoming established)
   
   
  I think all aftermarket cable makers are trying very hard to provide some great products for everyone, and this should be a good thing. 
   
  If you are happy with your current product then by all means express the excitement (this is a good thing and good for that business). 
   
  But I personally don't see why one would cast negativity towards new product creation. 
   
_just my 2 cents.  _


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


>


 

 Yes, but all that's saying is that resistivity changes non linearly with respect to the number of grain boundaries. For a given conductor, the grain boundaries will be fixed so it's not as if the number of grain boundaries are changing non linearly with the signal causing distortion.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Yes, but all that's saying is that resistivity changes non linearly with respect to the number of grain boundaries. For a given conductor, the grain boundaries will be fixed so it's not as if the number of grain boundaries are changing non linearly with the signal causing distortion.
> 
> se


 
  I agree. but I had to throw it in... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just in case someone makes their own roll your own litz from multiple sources.  Anyway, I'm sure you noticed the knee of the curve at around 30 boundaries per mm.


----------



## scootermafia

I believe what it's saying is that there's somewhat of a plateau, past 220-300 grain boundaries per mm there isn't a very sharp decrease in resistivity.  As you go from 200 to 100 grain boundaries per mm the resistivity drops sharply.  This makes sense since the benefit can only be so great and you can't make a wire infinitely less conductive with infinitely many grain boundaries, within reason of course.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> But I personally don't see why one would cast negativity towards new product creation.


 
   
  You have it backwards. What happened was someone casting negatively towards anyone who didn't use OCC wire.
   
  To wit:
   
  Quote: 





> Be careful of others because they dont use OCC wire, which is like going to HD and buying some crappy copper wire.


 
   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Who need copper or silver cables?  I want a cable made from reconstituted graphs, measurements, SPL readings, toss in a few Ohms laws equations, stuff it all in a nice flexable jacket and then connect it to my cans.


----------



## TigzStudio

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> You have it backwards. What happened was someone casting negatively towards anyone who didn't use OCC wire.
> 
> To wit:
> Quote:
> ...


 
   
  Just to clear things up you left off who made that second quote, it was not me.  Just wanted to clear that up for any readers that jump into the thread. 
   
   
  The way your post looks sort of make it look like I made the second quote. 
   
   
   
  I have nothing against any material and design someone wants to use.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *TigzStudio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Just to clear things up you left off who made that second quote, it was not me.  Just wanted to clear that up for any readers that jump into the thread.
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe to someone with the English comprehension of a third grader (had I meant you I would have said "you" rather than "someone" seeing as my post was directed at you).
   
  The quote was from cifiani090.
   
  But that still leaves us with your having said "But I personally don't see why one would cast negativity towards new product creation." I can't say that I see where that comes from or who exactly it's intended for.
   
  se


----------



## TigzStudio

There is really no need for any anger or personal insults.  I was not angry at all.  I am only on the thread to help answer direct questions for anyone that may have them in regards to my product.


----------



## Steve Eddy

My apologies to anyone with third grade English comprehension.
   
  se


----------



## Girls Generation

Cool it guys... My spidey sense is telling me a Mod is on his way over here!


Peace and Serenity ~~~~~~~~~~~



Anyways, any info on VH Audio's Pulsar ag silver 75ohm coaxial wire?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> My apologies to anyone with third grade English comprehension.
> 
> se


 


  Well I didn't get the reference because I never made it out of second grade parochial school.  they kind of killed my education at that grade.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well I didn't get the reference because I never made it out of second grade parochial school.  they kind of killed my education at that grade.


 

 How do you know what a meteorite is than?


----------



## WNBC

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well I didn't get the reference because I never made it out of second grade parochial school.  they kind of killed my education at that grade.


 
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> How do you know what a meteorite is than?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> How do you know what a meteorite is than?


 
   
  I saw one in the original release of THE BLOB when I was a kid.


----------



## HK_sends

Wow, that's really dating you, isn't it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I saw one in the original release of THE BLOB when I was a kid.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Wow, that's really dating you, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I guess so, I mean I was born one year before the Space Age began. That's one year before mankind ever put any object into space or went ouside of the earths atmosphere.  I spent half of my childhood before the advent of FM radio. Nothing in the airwaves but AM radio. "Duck and Cover" was practiced once a week in school. At noon on every saturday the community nuclear attack siren would go off for a minute for testing.  The Twilight Zone was freaking people out.  It's been a while...


----------



## scootermafia

Bottom line is that here we have MOTs invested in both OCC and non-OCC wire.  It's not worth butting heads over that, because any MOT that posts about it is going to be posting with their own interests in mind.  While it probably isn't worth our time, we can look at the hard science all we want, it may tell us that in some situations the wires have different properties; what it doesn't tell us is anything to do with the actual sound.  For that, you have to experiment and vote with your wallet.


----------



## HK_sends

I missed Mercury and was born a year before Gemini.  It really is amazing how much (and how little) has changed in so short a time.  Ironically enough, I work where they track all those objects in space sent up after you were born.
  Cheers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to you, Sir!
  -HK sends
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I guess so, I mean I was born one year before the Space Age began. That's one year before mankind ever put any object into space or went ouside of the earths atmosphere.  I spent half of my childhood before the advent of FM radio. Nothing in the airwaves but AM radio. "Duck and Cover" was practiced once a week in school. At noon on every saturday the community nuclear attack siren would go off for a minute for testing.  The Twilight Zone was freaking people out.  It's been a while...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Bottom line is that here we have MOTs invested in both OCC and non-OCC wire.  It's not worth butting heads over that, because any MOT that posts about it is going to be posting with their own interests in mind.  While it probably isn't worth our time, we can look at the hard science all we want, it may tell us that in some situations the wires have different properties; what it doesn't tell us is anything to do with the actual sound.  For that, you have to experiment and vote with your wallet.


 
  A reasonable statement, Sir...
   
  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

hk_sends said:


> I missed Mercury and was born a year before Gemini.  It really is amazing how much (and how little) has changed in so short a time.  Ironically enough, I work where they track all those objects in space sent up after you were born.
> Cheers
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I once witnessed the launching of a Saturn V rocket.  Until that moment I thought skydiving was the biggest thrill on earth.  I'm still stunned.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I guess so, I mean I was born one year before the Space Age began. That's one year before mankind ever put any object into space or went ouside of the earths atmosphere.  I spent half of my childhood before the advent of FM radio. Nothing in the airwaves but AM radio. "Duck and Cover" was practiced once a week in school. At noon on every saturday the community nuclear attack siren would go off for a minute for testing.  The Twilight Zone was freaking people out.  It's been a while...


 

 You youngsters...


----------



## Covenant

I don't have an aftermarket cable per se (not yet anyway), but I thought I'd share an interesting experience with the two different Audez'e stock cables, the ADZ-5 (older) and ADZ-6 (newer).
   
  I currently have the older ADZ-5 cable, and was curious if the ADZ-6 would yield any improvement. I was told that both cables are essentially the same - no change in conductor used or gauge - and that the only difference is that the newer ADZ-6 is a ribbon cable. Still, one of the local head-fi'ers had an ADZ-6 he was willing to lend me, and I did some comparisons over the weekend.
   
  Now it might be my imagination, but to me the ADZ-6 sounded noticably cleaner and clearer than the ADZ-5. The older cable produces a fair bit of "smear" to the sound when handling transients, producing a slightly muddy, slightly diffused sound. I've tried an aftermarket-recabled LCD-2 rev1 before (8-conductor Norse) that didn't experience this problem, so I was quite surprised when I bought a rev1 and found it to lack some of the clarity and sharpness of attack that I expected.
   
  The ADZ-6 gets me a little closer to what I originally heard with the Norse-recabled pair. I'm still probably going to buy an aftermarket cable at some stage - once I make up my mind which to get, and more importantly once I can afford it - but I think the newer stock cable is a decent tweak to help satisfy me in the interim.


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Cool it guys... My spidey sense is telling me a Mod is on his way over here!


----------



## Girls Generation

currawong said:


>




Ahh, I laughed out loud on that one, although I suspect you might be serious.

By the way, you have a beautiful daughter.




Has anyone considered the Rectangular UPOCC silver wire?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Ahh, I laughed out loud on that one, although I suspect you might be serious.
> 
> * By the way, you have a beautiful daughter.*
> 
> ...


 






 A few people have tried the silver wire, i actually may be getting two LCD-2 cables once i get a darn pair of LCD-2's.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





currawong said:


>


 


  haha awesome picture.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





covenant said:


> I don't have an aftermarket cable per se (not yet anyway), but I thought I'd share an interesting experience with the two different Audez'e stock cables, the ADZ-5 (older) and ADZ-6 (newer).
> 
> I currently have the older ADZ-5 cable, and was curious if the ADZ-6 would yield any improvement. I was told that both cables are essentially the same - no change in conductor used or gauge - and that the only difference is that the newer ADZ-6 is a ribbon cable. Still, one of the local head-fi'ers had an ADZ-6 he was willing to lend me, and I did some comparisons over the weekend.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting, I never knew the ribbon cable was the ADZ-6, but I completely agree with your findings. When I received the ribbon cable with my revision 2, I noticed that the cable did sound noticeably better than the original cable. As far as tonality, clarity, and dynamics, I thought that's where it was better. I also agree with the term you used to describe the original cable, "smear". That's exactly how the original cable sounded compared to the ribbon one. But I think I described it as "blurry" or with a "glare".


----------



## WarriorAnt

So do you think audeze was less than truthful by saying the ADZ-5 and the ADZ-6 are the same cable design with the same sonics just different packaging?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So do you think audeze was less than truthful by saying the ADZ-5 and the ADZ-6 are the same cable design with the same sonics just different packaging?


 
  No, they said it exactly as it is.  Geometry tends to be more influential on sound than conductor material.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> No, they said it exactly as it is.  Geometry tends to be more influential on sound than conductor material.


 
  What does that mean "Geometry".  I'm confused about the term since I am unfamiliar with it.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What does that mean "Geometry".  I'm confused about the term since I am unfamiliar with it.


 
  The orientation of and distance from one conductor to another and the dielectric utilized.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> The orientation of and distance from one conductor to another and the dielectric utilized.


 
  What would be affected the most? wire capacitance?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What would be affected the most? wire capacitance?


 
  capacitance and inductance along with skin effect and a host of other things we haven't learned how to objectively measure yet, unless of course, we're all deluded.


----------



## drez

Wikipedia for the win - but I think the actual magnitude of the loss due to capacitance is pretty damn small.
   
  If someone can post a formula/graph to show this relationship it might help as this is not my field.


----------



## olor1n

Sorry for the noob question but, in general, would it be best to use a thicker gauge particularly for balanced cables?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Sorry for the noob question but, in general, would it be best to use a thicker gauge particularly for balanced cables?


 
  Not necessarily.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





drez said:


> Wikipedia for the win - but I think the actual magnitude of the loss due to capacitance is pretty damn small.
> 
> If someone can post a formula/graph to show this relationship it might help as this is not my field.


 
  This not the sound science forum and the audible differences have not been measured objectively, so it's best to leave it at that.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> capacitance and inductance along with skin effect and a host of other things we haven't learned how to objectively measure yet, unless of course, we're all deluded.


 
   
  Naah, we're just human is all.
   
  se


----------



## drez

Why not talk about what colour our undergarments are if we don't want to talk about specifics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm not saying capacitance isn't important (although some cable manufacturers claim this) just that we may as well be specific if we are going to talk about relevant theories.
   
  Admittedly low capacitance is one of the byproducts of a thinner wire with a cotton dielectric but in the end it is still an electrical property just like resistance and inductance which has an alleged effect on an electrical signal.
   
  In either case I am not qualified to comment from an theoretical standpoint, and even if I was a-priori theories are all to often undone in application.
   
  One of the classic examples of this is Engineers For 911 Truth where some engineers did some back of envelope calculations about the time taken for the towers to collapse, found the video doesn't match therefore think something is amiss.
   
  IMHO it would just be interesting to look at these metrics given the impressions people have of the sound.
   
  I think its alright to talk about theory outside science forum as long as nobody insists on certain methodologies and as long as it doesn't become the core of the discussion, which maybe is in danger of happening...


----------



## Wedge

So, resistance, inductance and capacitance don't actually effect electrical signals?


----------



## drez

lol nah just saying that back of envelope calculations can be useful BUT should be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





wedge said:


> So, resistance, inductance and capacitance don't actually effect electrical signals?


 

 All I said was we haven't learned to correlate actual measurements to actual observed sound.  Objective measurement with subjective observation.  I never said it couldn't be done.  Then there's the matter of scale, and of complex interaction with that which is being measured, and the interaction of he driver being driven with the amp driving it.  And so it goes on...  I would love to pursue this under the right circumstances, but not in this thread.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/572418/correlation-between-objective-measurement-and-subjective-observation-of-cable-differences#post_7765479


----------



## USAudio

Some folks might find this link has some interesting information:  http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


----------



## kwkarth

Great link!  Thanks!


----------



## Wedge

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> All I said was we haven't learned to correlate actual measurements to actual observed sound.  Objective measurement with subjective observation.  I never said it couldn't be done.  Then there's the matter of scale, and of complex interaction with that which is being measured, and the interaction of he driver being driven with the amp driving it.  And so it goes on...  I would love to pursue this under the right circumstances, but not in this thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/572418/correlation-between-objective-measurement-and-subjective-observation-of-cable-differences#post_7765479


 

 Kevin, my response was in response to Drez's remark, see below I've taken the excerpt of the section with which I had a question.
   
  Quote: 





drez said:


> Admittedly low capacitance is one of the byproducts of a thinner wire with a cotton dielectric but in the end it is still an electrical property just like resistance and inductance which has an alleged effect on an electrical signal.


----------



## Covenant

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Objective measurement with subjective observation.


 

 For me it's pretty simple. I like to research the objective measurements and scientific principle behind the things I buy, because without investigating the hard science I'm left to the mercy of marketing. But I also allow that the objective measurements doesn't always tell the full picture, so my ears are always the final, decisive measuring instrument.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





covenant said:


> For me it's pretty simple. I like to research the objective measurements and scientific principle behind the things I buy, because without investigating the hard science I'm left to the mercy of marketing. But I also allow that the objective measurements doesn't always tell the full picture, so my ears are always the final, decisive measuring instrument.


 
  I'm in some ways but not in all ways opposite.  I go by the ears and impressions of those I trust very well, and then I use my own ears as final judgement.  I never want to see a graph or a single measurement.


----------



## Covenant

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I never want to see a graph or a single measurement.


 

 It was largely the frequency response graphs of the LCD-2 that first interested me about them. Flat to 1Khz? Yeah baby!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





covenant said:


> It was largely the frequency response graphs of the LCD-2 that first interested me about them. Flat to 1Khz? Yeah baby!


 
  My graph is still in the manilla envelope.


----------



## Loevhagen

Where can I find the cheapest complete aftermarket cable with 4-pin-XLR (i.e. no TRS) to my LCD-2s? Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Freazy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Where can I find the cheapest complete aftermarket cable with 4-pin-XLR (i.e. no TRS) to my LCD-2s? Thanks for any advice.


 


  I think Q-audio is your best bet -> http://www.q-audio.com


----------



## Steve Eddy

Seems to me that the cheapest way to go would to simply re-termiante the stock cable with a 4 pin XLR.
   
  se


----------



## Loevhagen

That's a (good) plan. I haven't found how to terminate the 4-pin XLR, just 2 ea 3-pin XLRs. 
   
  Sad to admit it, but me + soldering =


----------



## Thenarus

Steve, just received my 2m LCD-2 Q cable.  I actually laughed out loud when I first listened to one of my reference tracks with it; I really didn't expect so much additional fine detail to be immediately apparent over the stock cable...but it was.  Fine job, and worth every penny; thanks again.
   
  Only one niggle: my left and right terminals aren't labelled at all.  Is this standard practice?  I used a red pen to tint the text on the right side, so I'm all good now, but I'd like to know if I'm missing something, or if this might help as feedback.
   
  EDIT:  And no sooner than one minute after posting this, I noticed the subtle brown thread through the cabling to the right side.  Live and learn!


----------



## Loevhagen

Look for the thin brown thread for the right channel on the Q.


----------



## HK_sends

So, lesson learned:  Don't order a brown cable...or you're out of luck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Yeah, the thread is subtle.  I had to ask Steve to make sure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## Loevhagen

"You're an audiophile, if you can detect that the R and L channels are reversed".


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> That's a (good) plan. I haven't found how to terminate the 4-pin XLR, just 2 ea 3-pin XLRs.
> 
> Sad to admit it, but me + soldering =


 

 HA!
   
  For 4 pin XLR's, pin 1 is left positive, pin 2 is left negative, pin 3 is right positive and pin 4 is right negative.
   
  On the mini-XLR's for the LCD-2's, pins 1 and 4 are positive and pins 2 and 3 are negative. You can use this to determine which wires are which at the other end of the cable.
   
  As for your archery, er, I mean soldering skills, I'm sure there must be a fellow HeadFier in your neck of the woods who could help you out with that, no?
   
  Good luck!
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Thank you for the kind words, Thenarus.
   
   
  Quote:  





> EDIT:  And no sooner than one minute after posting this, I noticed the subtle brown thread through the cabling to the right side.  Live and learn!


 

 Don't feel so bad. I had an encounter with some subtle brown stuff myself this morning. Only it wasn't thread. We're housebreaking a new puppy. Eeeewwwwww!
   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

I have a way to combat this.  Put on Iron Man by Black Sabbath.  If you hear the tapping sound in your right ear at the very start of the song, the cables are set up correctly.  If not, reverse 'em.  Steve's thread color thing is cool, he and iPodPJ do NOT like red heatshrink, which I'm guilty of.


----------



## Stevtt

Whoa, Iron Man. Forgot just how much I like that song
   
  I actually hooked up the set of Double helix I've had sitting around for three weeks.
   
  Nice


----------



## chirawatf

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Seems to me that the cheapest way to go would to simply re-termiante the stock cable with a 4 pin XLR.
> 
> se


 
  My LCD2 rev.2's stock cable was replaced by furuteck gold 6.3mm jack (stock mini XLR at another end), still can't compete with Q-audio cable.


----------



## olor1n

I've gone the cheapskate route and commissioned a Head-Fi DIYer to make a balanced cable for me. Going with the thinner Mogami mini quad. I hope I haven't compromised too much.


----------



## Br777

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Some folks might find this link has some interesting information:  http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


 
   
  upon second thought, i am just going to withdrawl this comment..it was sily and i would appreciate it if you withdrawl your quotes..


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





br777 said:


> whenever i start getting the cable upgrade itch, i read articles like this, and once again feel rest assured that I made the right choice in DIY ing my own cable for less than $20, which in my humble opinion is more functional and stylish than many flashy name branders currently on the market anyway
> 
> in my opinion aftermarket cables are great, as long as you don't have expectations of anything but the most minute sound quality increases, and know that its quite possible and even likely, that any improvements are either not actually b/c of the cable "sounding better" , or that they are simply all in your head.
> 
> ...


 

 What aftermarket cables have you tried?


----------



## Br777

^please see my updated post


----------



## Girls Generation

I don't know about you guys, but I'm using VH Audio's Pulsar Silver 75Ohm Coax cable to make my CLAS to JH3A interconnect (Coax to TRRS mini). I'm pretty sure I don't 'need' to spend $110 on the 1 meter cable that I'll be using 1/10 of, and I don't know if I'll hear improvements or not, but it's all for self-satisfaction.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





chirawatf said:


> My LCD2 rev.2's stock cable was replaced by furuteck gold 6.3mm jack (stock mini XLR at another end), still can't compete with Q-audio cable.


 
   
  Thank you for the kind words.
   
  But I think the gentleman with the freakishly misshapen head was just looking for an inexpensive way to give balanced a try before committing to a more expensive cable.
   
  se


----------



## Loevhagen

Freakishly? Oh, come on. The LCD-2 clamp force did that to me. The rest will follow. Some years from now, all LCD-2 owners will be cone heads.
   
  Maybe my brain is under pressure, but I skipped the DIY option to spare my family and not burn down the hous in operating the solder iron. I went for the third Q audio cable instead. Quite a cheap solution compared to the burned down house.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I've gone the cheapskate route and commissioned a Head-Fi DIYer to make a balanced cable for me. Going with the thinner Mogami mini quad. I hope I haven't compromised too much.


 

 Naaah, you'll be fine. If you're going the cheapskate route, I don't think you could have picked a better cable than the Mogami.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Freakishly? Oh, come on. The LCD-2 clamp force did that to me. The rest will follow. Some years from now, all LCD-2 owners will be cone heads.


 
   
  HA!
   
  "France. We come from France."
   





   
  se


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





br777 said:


> ^please see my updated post


 

  
  So you found your post silly?  I found it insulting actually.


----------



## Br777

^ well i did my due diligence and removed my post.. the rest is up to you.   do what you like.


----------



## WarriorAnt

> br777 said:
> 
> 
> > in my opinion aftermarket cables are great, as long as you don't have expectations of anything but the most minute sound quality increases, and know that its quite possible and even likely, that any improvements are either not actually b/c of the cable "sounding better" , or that they are simply all in your head.
> ...


 

 Could it possibly be that you do not hear any difference in cable performance because your perceptual abilities are limited?   Simply because you cannot discern any differences you are convinced that anyone who can and does is suffering from some delusional mental state?  Tricked in some way by the mind and some dysfunctional mental state rather than actually discerning an actual sonic occurrence?
   
  I myself have found the difference between the stock cable of the LCD and another aftermarket cable to be fairly significant in terms of clarity.  Am I to assume then that I have some mental disfunction and that there is some irregularity in my mental state that has led me to this illusional conclusions, or should I let decades of professional experience in the audio world be the vehicle that transports me to my conclusions?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Don't we have a Sound Science forum for discussing this?
   
  se


----------



## Br777

^^ i recognized my poor taste post, revoked my comment, and asked you do the same..you have quoted it twice now... I will not be persuing this conversation further.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Don't we have a Sound Science forum for discussing this?
> 
> se


 
  I think even in the science forum people might take offense to the OP's comment since it has no basis, no merit, and as the OP pointed out is pretty silly.  But one does get tired of hearing it over and over again and never getting called out for it.


----------



## Proglover

WA, give the man a break will you
   
  He didn't personally attacked you nor called anybody mentally dysfunctional.
   
  If he puts statements like that in a specific aftermarket cable topic, people will off course fall over you, but if he wants to correct it, I'd say let him be. People can make mistakes like this and again, I don't perceive his one as insulting or what.
   
  Either way, let's talk about cables again 
  Still happy with my silver molecule from Peter's hands. If someone would finally buy my HE-500, I can pm Steve to order one of his cables; I need a longer cable for some situations plus am very curious to compare the two.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





proglover said:


> WA, give the man a break will you
> 
> He didn't personally attacked you nor called anybody mentally dysfunctional.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Alright I apologize.
   
   A man can only take so much of being told every audio perception he has is "all in one's head" by a crowd of folks who are quick to accuse but offer nothing but false bravado as statements.   And while it may not seem insulting in general or personally specific it is definitely an irritant to some who take the time and work to actually discern cable characteristics and report them.  
   
  (please note I did not say anything about drums)


----------



## Radio_head

When did anyone ever say anything about cables WA?  This is a thread about the M50's and whether they need an amp.  I think the whole thing is in your head...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> When did anyone ever say anything about cables WA?  This is a thread about the M50's and whether they need an amp.  I think the whole thing is in your head...


 


  The Lunatic is in my head...


----------



## Radio_head

Probably because you took too much grass...
   
(reference to "lunatic is on the grass" for floyd-phobes)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





radio_head said:


> Probably because you took too much grass...


 

 Or listened to too many aftermarket cables...


----------



## Girls Generation

Headfi gives me my daily dose of laughter 
I can always come here to cheer me up when I'm in a bad mood


----------



## Windsor

Hey guys, 
   
  I definitely enjoy the enhanced clarity that the ALO Reference 8 is providing my rev2/Lavry DA10 combo; the stock cable makes the combo sound warmer and muddier by comparison. However, the ALO Ref 8 seems to give music a bright sheen in the treble region that can get in the way a little and be distracting from the musical performance, just like how seeing your reflection in a glossy computer screen can distract you from the content on display.
   
  My preference for an aftermarket cable is one that provides at least as much clarity as the ALO Ref 8 does but without the bright sheen it presents sonically. Any suggestions? Has anyone here compared the ALO Ref 8 with other aftermarket cables?


----------



## scootermafia

Silver cables are notorious for having a long burn in period.  I would definitely give it 300 hours or so before giving up on it.  They can even out in a big way.
   
  Edit: that is, if you got the silver/copper hybrid one.  If it's the pure copper one, hey, some burn in might help there too.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I definitely enjoy the enhanced clarity that the ALO Reference 8 is providing my rev2/Lavry DA10 combo; the stock cable makes the combo sound warmer and muddier by comparison. However, the ALO Ref 8 seems to give music a bright sheen in the treble region that can get in the way a little and be distracting from the musical performance, just like how seeing your reflection in a glossy computer screen can distract you from the content on display.
> 
> My preference for an aftermarket cable is one that provides at least as much clarity as the ALO Ref 8 does but without the bright sheen it presents sonically. Any suggestions? Has anyone here compared the ALO Ref 8 with other aftermarket cables?


 
  Windsor you know my suggestion!   The Q.


----------



## Windsor

@Scootermafia: Thanks for the burn-in info. The Ref 8 (silver/copper) is a loaner, and I'm not sure how many hours the owner had used it for before lending it to me. I've fed the LCD-2 via the Ref 8 for quite a few hours (probably 50-100) since having it in my possession. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  @WA: Did I need to ask? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Based on your review, I know the Q will most probably sound the business. The Q is definitely on my 'possible aftermarket LCD-2 cables to buy' list, and I'm still interested in reading if anyone has any experience with aftermarket cables in relation to the Ref 8.
   
  FYI: The ALO Ref 8 I'm using has a 1m copper cable (4-pin XLR to 1/4" stereo converter) between it and my DAC/Amp, so I don't know for sure how the Ref 8 would sound on its own. Probably a bit brighter if anything...


----------



## Girls Generation

scootermafia said:


> Silver cables are notorious for having a long burn in period.  I would definitely give it 300 hours or so before giving up on it.  They can even out in a big way.
> 
> Edit: that is, if you got the silver/copper hybrid one.  If it's the pure copper one, hey, some burn in might help there too.



Does this include our VH pulsars and your RS silver?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





windsor said:


> @Scootermafia: Thanks for the burn-in info. The Ref 8 (silver/copper) is a loaner, and I'm not sure how many hours the owner had used it for before lending it to me. I've fed the LCD-2 via the Ref 8 for quite a few hours (probably 50-100) since having it in my possession.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How's the ergonomics of Ref 8?  Does it feel heavy or cumbersome?


----------



## scootermafia

I burned my own cables on an Audiodharma cable cooker, I need to pay up for one of those, they kick butt...I borrowed a friend's.


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> So, lesson learned:  Don't order a brown cable...or you're out of luck!


 
   
  Go for the natural cotton!


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How's the ergonomics of Ref 8?  Does it feel heavy or cumbersome?


 

 I wouldn't call the Ref 8 cumbersome, but it could be said that it's more in that direction than the stock LCD-2 cable. 
   
  The Ref 8 seems slightly heavier than the stock cable and it has a more rugged feel due to its braided wires, as opposed to the sheathed wires of the stock cable. I find the Ref 8 physically less transparent than the stock LCD-2 cable (the Ref 8 gets in the way a little bit more during general use and is more of a distraction from the music than the stock LCD-2 cable). 
   
  To me, the stock LCD-2 cable has better ergonomics than the Ref 8.


----------



## dj nellie

IntereSting, I have an 8 foot ALO SxC cable and it feels about equally heavy as the stock but much more flexible. As for its sound, I don't think it sounds unnaturally sharp in the treble. I think it actually opens up the LCD2's treble, which can sound somewhat recessed or lacking clarity with the stock cable. Then again, I'm finding that I really value a crystal-clear treble presence (my favorite IEMs are the UERMs, which have particularly excellent upper midrange/treble focus).

Overall, I'm really happy with the ALO. Its price is indeed insane, but the build quality is amazing and it's clear that Ken spent a lot of time trying to synergize this particular cable with the strengths and weaknesss of the LCD2.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> IntereSting, I have an 8 foot ALO SxC cable and it feels about equally heavy as the stock but much more flexible. As for its sound, I don't think it sounds unnaturally sharp in the treble. I think it actually opens up the LCD2's treble, which can sound somewhat recessed or lacking clarity with the stock cable. Then again, I'm finding that I really value a crystal-clear treble presence (my favorite IEMs are the UERMs, which have particularly excellent upper midrange/treble focus).
> 
> Overall, I'm really happy with the ALO. Its price is indeed insane, but the build quality is amazing and it's clear that Ken spent a lot of time trying to synergize this particular cable with the strengths and weaknesss of the LCD2.


 

 Thanks for your ALO-related insights! Looking at your signature, your equipment seems to include the same headphone rig as I'm using right now (Lavry DA-10/LCD-2/ALO Ref 8) - cool! Is your LCD-2 the rev2?
   
  I enjoy the rev2/DA10/Ref 8 combo and don't think it sounds mega-bright in the treble, but it somehow seems brighter than sounds natural to me. I'm just saying what my ears are reporting, and can imagine that with the rev1, which I've heard, and the DA10/ALO Ref 8, that the overall sound would be slightly darker and may not have the treble prominence I am currently hearing.


----------



## Windsor

@Dj nellie - When you use the Lavry DA10/LCD-2 combo, do you use the DA10 as an all-in-one DAC/Amp or just use just part of the DA10 i.e. the DAC?


----------



## dj nellie

Hey Windsor...Yeah I'm not questioning what you hear, especially since I have the LCD-2 "Classic" (still waiting on the new pads).  It's possible that the ALO 8 synergizes better with the original LCD-2 than the Rev. 2.  This makes sense to the extent that a cable can be designed to suit a particular headphone, since Ken designed the cable long before Rev. 2 came out (and AFAIK he hasn't tweaked it since the Rev. 2's release).
   
  I used the DA-10 as an all-in-one DAC+amp unit for several months, and while it was pretty good for the money, the LCD-2s have definitely improved since I got a separate amp:  the V200.  The DA-10's amp made the LCD-2's soundstage feel a little congested, both the bass and treble seemed like they could extend further, and generally the LCD-2s seemed to lack authority and dynamics.  The V200s, fed by the DA-10's XLR outputs, have made the LCD-2s come alive, with a more expansive soundstage and improved punch and clarity.
   
  Anyway, your impressions reinforce my belief that a well-matched cable can remove some of the muddiness and veil that may be covering parts of a headphone's frequency response.  If you can afford it, you may want to see if an external amp will help naturalize some of that excess treble you're hearing with the ALO cable (and possibly provide other benefits).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> Hey Windsor...Yeah I'm not questioning what you hear, especially since I have the LCD-2 "Classic" (still waiting on the new pads).  It's possible that the ALO 8 synergizes better with the original LCD-2 than the Rev. 2.  This makes sense to the extent that a cable can be designed to suit a particular headphone, since Ken designed the cable long before Rev. 2 came out (and AFAIK he hasn't tweaked it since the Rev. 2's release).
> 
> I used the DA-10 as an all-in-one DAC+amp unit for several months, and while it was pretty good for the money, the LCD-2s have definitely improved since I got a separate amp:  the V200.  The DA-10's amp made the LCD-2's soundstage feel a little congested, both the bass and treble seemed like they could extend further, and generally the LCD-2s seemed to lack authority and dynamics.  The V200s, fed by the DA-10's XLR outputs, have made the LCD-2s come alive, with a more expansive soundstage and improved punch and clarity.
> 
> Anyway, your impressions reinforce my belief that a well-matched cable can remove some of the muddiness and veil that may be covering parts of a headphone's frequency response.  If you can afford it, you may want to see if an external amp will help naturalize some of that excess treble you're hearing with the ALO cable (and possibly provide other benefits).


 
  Are you coming out of the Lavry into the V200  balanced?


----------



## dj nellie

Yup.  I tried XLR-RCA adapters into the V200's RCA inputs for a while until I got an XLR-XLR cable.  I didn't A-B the SE setup vs. balanced, but it made sense to at least try fully balanced since both the Lavry and V200 have the capability. 
   
  At the very least, I think going fully balanced raises the gain level of the V200; I have the V200 set to -12 gain and I still have to cut my DAC's output to less than half of its maximum for the V200 to produce a comfortable volume at around 12:00 on the volume dial.  I'm still trying to figure out whether it's better to have the V200's volume pot closer to max--and have the Lavry's output closer to the minimum--or vice versa.  I do know that my custom IEMs hiss less with the V200's volume minimized and the Lavry's output maximized, but I don't hear hiss at any volume with my full-size cans.
   
  Back to cables...anyone else try the ALO Ref 8?  I thought my wife would notice it and ask how much it cost, but she hasn't yet.  That's a definite advantage of the Salty Pepper design; it's not as conspicuous as a new sheath or a pink copper cable would be.  If my wife does notice the cable, I have a plan:  I'll just say it's the same cable I've always had, I just cut the sheath off.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> Yup.  I tried XLR-RCA adapters into the V200's RCA inputs for a while until I got an XLR-XLR cable.  I didn't A-B the SE setup vs. balanced, but it made sense to at least try fully balanced since both the Lavry and V200 have the capability.
> 
> At the very least, I think going fully balanced raises the gain level of the V200; I have the V200 set to -12 gain and I still have to cut my DAC's output to less than half of its maximum for the V200 to produce a comfortable volume at around 12:00 on the volume dial.  I'm still trying to figure out whether it's better to have the V200's volume pot closer to max--and have the Lavry's output closer to the minimum--or vice versa.  I do know that my custom IEMs hiss less with the V200's volume minimized and the Lavry's output maximized, but I don't hear hiss at any volume with my full-size cans.
> 
> Back to cables...anyone else try the ALO Ref 8?  I thought my wife would notice it and ask how much it cost, but she hasn't yet.  That's a definite advantage of the Salty Pepper design; it's not as conspicuous as a new sheath or a pink copper cable would be.  If my wife does notice the cable, I have a plan:  I'll just say it's the same cable I've always had, I just cut the sheath off.


 
  In 25 years my wife has never asked me what any piece of gear costs.


----------



## tkteo

My dad would ask about the cost of the CDs but not the cost of the equipment.


----------



## treal512

Hey, I just got a Norse Audio cable today and I don't know which side is L or R, haha. The cables look the same, but the connectors are black and brown.
   
  Is black left?


----------



## TigzStudio

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Hey, I just got a Norse Audio cable today and I don't know which side is L or R, haha. The cables look the same, but the connectors are black and brown.
> 
> Is black left?


 


  Black is left, brown is right.


----------



## drez

guess it kind of makes sense b*L*ack  and b*R*own


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I have a way to combat this.  Put on Iron Man by Black Sabbath.  If you hear the tapping sound in your right ear at the very start of the song, the cables are set up correctly.  If not, reverse 'em.  Steve's thread color thing is cool, he and iPodPJ do NOT like red heatshrink, which I'm guilty of.


 
   
  You can always guess and check


----------



## Girls Generation

drez said:


> guess it kind of makes sense b*L*ack  and b*R*own




That's smart. Unless you're Korean, which makes black "beuleck," and brown "burown" in our pronounciation.


----------



## drez

doesn't really work in Italian nero/rosso. but neither does blue/red (azzurro/rosso)
   
  I'm not sure if this is the origin behind the blue/red standard though.
   
  I think speaker cables are typically white and red, with red being right channel?


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That's smart. Unless you're Korean, which makes black "beuleck," and brown "burown" in our pronounciation.


 
   
  Haha!!! I loved the way my cousins said black when I was in Korea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I got in trouble for saying it a little exaggerated as "burack!" xD


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





drez said:


> I think speaker cables are typically white and red, with red being right channel?


 

 Interconnects typically use red/white for right and left. Speaker cables typically don't have any coding for channel, just polarity, typically red for positive and black for ground.
   
  se


----------



## treal512

Are there any good comparisons of LCD-2 cables out there that someone can point me to? Like the Q and Norse? I haven't listened to them enough, but I find my newly acquired 4-conductor Norse cable to bring slightly too much treble out.


----------



## Girls Generation

treal512 said:


> Are there any good comparisons of LCD-2 cables out there that someone can point me to? Like the Q and Norse? I haven't listened to them enough, but I find my newly acquired 4-conductor Norse cable to bring slightly too much treble out.




Well, all four of the following are highly regarded among the people here:

- Q audio @ Steve Eddy
- Norse Audio (Recently launched a new product called the "Norn") @ TigzStudio
- Double Helix Cable ("Nucleotide" for on the go, or "RS," which is a rectangular wire, if you're stationary and seek the best sound. Will be similar to the "Norn.") @ scootermafia
- Whiplash TWag V2 @ SACD-Man

If you give me a short description on what your priorities are, I can point you in the right direction.


----------



## Freazy

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Well, all four of the following are highly regarded among the people here:
> 
> - Q audio @ Steve Eddy
> - Norse Audio (Recently launched a new product called the "Norn") @ TigzStudio
> ...


 



 This is another verry good cable wich i own that should be on the list:
  -Moon Audio Silver Dragon Ver.3


----------



## WNBC

I think I asked that question somewhere in this thread or another because I was thinking of switching from the Norse to Q for comfort.  I vaguely remember someone who had both said that comfort/flexibility goes hands down to the Q while on all other points related to sound it was not necessarily an upgrade, more of a matter of slight differences.  I'll try to dig up those posts for you.  In any case, I did not find my Norse 4 conductor by any means harsh in the treble but we all have different systems so you need to find the best cable for your system.  I have upgraded my original Norse cable to the Norse Norn cable for reasons of comfort due to the cotton sheath rather than issues with the sound.  That should be here today or tomorrow.   
  
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Are there any good comparisons of LCD-2 cables out there that someone can point me to? Like the Q and Norse? I haven't listened to them enough, but I find my newly acquired 4-conductor Norse cable to bring slightly too much treble out.


----------



## WNBC

Wow, you've heard all 4 cables on the LCD-2 or different cans, would love to see those comparisons in a review
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Well, all four of the following are highly regarded among the people here:
> 
> - Q audio @ Steve Eddy
> - Norse Audio (Recently launched a new product called the "Norn") @ TigzStudio
> ...


----------



## WNBC

Hey treal, here's the post I was referring to....
  
  Quote: 





deadears said:


> Yup, I extensively auditioned the Norse cable (both 4 and 8 conductor) before buying the Q cable.  I have Rev.1 LCD-2's and I appreciated the increase in resolution that both Norse cables and Q cables seem to provide.  I can tell you that both were an improvement over the stock cable, since I listened to the Norse for a week, then went back, then listened to the 8-conductor for a week and went back then tried comparing the 4 vs. 8 for while, and finally got the Q for a week and went back to stock again for a week.  No side-by-side for Norse vs. Q, but not much time in between.  Nevertheless, i don't share WA's skill at exactly remembering sound signatures, so you'll have to take my comments with the appropriate grains of salt.
> 
> I found the Q especially notable for its clarity in the treble regions and upper midrange (especially on trumpet and flute and instruments with a brassy edge, where it was especially faithful, even delivering that slightly shrieky sound of the piccolo).  Mozart's Horn Concertos have never sounded better on my rig with the LCD-2's.  By contrast, I slightly preferred the Norse 8-conductor on the bass, especially deep organ notes and tympani (think, for instance, the storm sequence in Britten's "Peter Grimes").  I felt the Norse had more impact, but the Q may have had more detail/clarity in the bass.  Again, texture-wise, I felt the harmonics of a double bassoon were relayed with more fidelity by the Q, but the bass guitar had slightly more "drive" with the Norse.  So the bass was a wash for me, with points awarded to all players and no clear win.  In the midrange, I love the LCD-2's for vocals, and here I felt that the Q's were a little more faithful to what I remembered some of my favorite singers sounding like in concert, that is, the tonality of their voices was just right.  I think the Norse were equally good, and clearly much better than the stock cable.  I would have been quite happy with the Norse and never looked back, if Keven (kwkarth) hadn't talked me into trying the Q's.
> 
> ...


----------



## Radio_head

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Wow, you've heard all 4 cables on the LCD-2 or different cans, would love to see those comparisons in a review


 


  I don't think they heard all the cables, they had just culled from other's impressions and felt they could help them make a decision.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I went back to the stock cable for a bit but it only reminded me of how imprisoning it is to have any kind of cable that hangs from the LCD-s and causes a conscious involvement physically.  It's distracting.   Besides the excellent sonics of the Q cable the lightness of the cable itself makes the cable disappear. It's as if your'e LCD's have become wireless.  Another nice thing is that you can lay the Q down on a surface around a keyboard or other object on a desktop and it is out of the way and out of mind.  when you move you're head the cable stays out of the way and doesn't swing around with each movement like a cable the size of the stock cable.  It's hard to go back to that kind of immobility once you get the freedom of movement with a cable like the Q.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





dj nellie said:


> Hey Windsor...Yeah I'm not questioning what you hear, especially since I have the LCD-2 "Classic" (still waiting on the new pads).  It's possible that the ALO 8 synergizes better with the original LCD-2 than the Rev. 2.  This makes sense to the extent that a cable can be designed to suit a particular headphone, since Ken designed the cable long before Rev. 2 came out (and AFAIK he hasn't tweaked it since the Rev. 2's release).
> 
> I used the DA-10 as an all-in-one DAC+amp unit for several months, and while it was pretty good for the money, the LCD-2s have definitely improved since I got a separate amp:  the V200.  The DA-10's amp made the LCD-2's soundstage feel a little congested, both the bass and treble seemed like they could extend further, and generally the LCD-2s seemed to lack authority and dynamics.  The V200s, fed by the DA-10's XLR outputs, have made the LCD-2s come alive, with a more expansive soundstage and improved punch and clarity.
> 
> Anyway, your impressions reinforce my belief that a well-matched cable can remove some of the muddiness and veil that may be covering parts of a headphone's frequency response.  If you can afford it, you may want to see if an external amp will help naturalize some of that excess treble you're hearing with the ALO cable (and possibly provide other benefits).


 

 It makes sense that, like all cables, the ALO Ref 8 cables would synergize best with the headphones they were designed with/for. I think the LCD-2 rev1/classic with the Ref 8 would probably sound great.
   
  When I had a rev1, it was fitted with the new pads and stock cable. I used it with the DA10 and the sound was a little bit congested, particularly in the bass, and the soundstage often felt like I was crawling through a narrow tunnel; with the DA10, the stock-cabled rev2 sounds less congested and more open than the rev1 did, and overall less forward (from memory).
   
  I tried the DAC of the DA10 fed to the Burson HA-160D via XLR->RCA, which was essentially using an HA-160D amp (the HA-160D and HA-160 use the same amp circuitry). I A/B'd that with the sound of the DA10 DAC/Amp, and the difference in sound was barely discernible to me. If anything the HA-160 sounded ever-so-slightly warmer than the amp of the DA10, but the sound was nowhere near enough on an enhancement to make me want to consider getting an amp for the DA10. At this point I'm more than content with the DA10, and these days am still loving its relatively more neutral and transparent sound to that of a warmer solid state, or perhaps a tube amp; I'd be interested to hear different amps with the DA10 though.
   
  The treble sheen I have often heard with the rev2 due to the Ref 8 is sometimes a bit like what I hear when an older TV is switched on a few rooms away from me, but the level of sheen seems to vary in accordance with the recording I'm playing, my level of mental clarity, and the state of my hearing, which as far as I know is healthy. Right now the rev2/Ref8/DA10 combo is sounding great with the songs I'm playing in the background as I type this.
   
  The ALO cable I currently have isn't mine, and at this point I may opt for a silver/copper aftermarket cable, but I'd be interested in hearing a copper aftermarket cable, too. My preference for an aftermarket cable for the rev2 is one that retains the tonality of the rev2 and increases the clarity of the sound I'm hearing from it.


----------



## Girls Generation

radio_head said:


> I don't think they heard all the cables, they had just culled from other's impressions and felt they could help them make a decision.




Yes. I've researched alot and I feel that I know which cables are better in what aspect, ie. Q audio being very light and flexible.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I prefer a cable that can transmit the signal in a clear, most unobtrusive manner.  For me that what a cable should do. I definitely do not want a cable to be designed as a tone control nor do I want to use a cable that acts like one.  I prefer a cable that just transmits the signal in the least impeding manner and then lets the LCD-2 do what it does.  I definitely do not want a cable that has been designed to compensate for anything concerning the LCD-2.  There's nothing in the headphone that I think needs compensating.


----------



## Girls Generation

And the higher grade the wire is, the more transparent the sound will be.  The "effects" of copper or silver will be less.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I prefer a cable that can transmit the signal in a clear, most unobtrusive manner.  For me that what a cable should do. I definitely do not want a cable to be designed as a tone control nor do I want to use a cable that acts like one.  I prefer a cable that just transmits the signal in the least impeding manner and then lets the LCD-2 do what it does.  I definitely do not want a cable that has been designed to compensate for anything concerning the LCD-2.  There's nothing in the headphone that I think needs compensating.


 

 I agree that there's nothing in the rev2 that needs compensating for, and I've found it interesting how a different cable can affect the sound the rev2 reveals.


----------



## WNBC

I see.  Cool.  So what are the final conclusions on whether or not you will get the LCD-2 and then which cable?  
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Yes. I've researched alot and I feel that I know which cables are better in what aspect, ie. Q audio being very light and flexible.


----------



## Girls Generation

wnbc said:


> I see.  Cool.  So what are the final conclusions on whether or not you will get the LCD-2 and then which cable?




RS silver vs. Norn. Whichever is cheaper xD

Asking JH Audio for an update on the 3A. If no progress, cancelling. :| Also, dummy test fit shell is coming today, if it doesn't fit (for the second time) then I'm cancelling. I just don't have the time or money to get ANOTHER impression done. If this doesn't fit, I don't know what to do anymore. I went to different clinics to get them done so....


----------



## WNBC

Well, none of us will talk you out of cancelling and going for the LCD-2.  Well, in the end it can boil down to cost so at the time for me the Norse was within my budget as cost was a factor for me.  No regrets.  Now Trevor offers a higher quality cable and I've made the upgrade. 
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> RS silver vs. Norn. Whichever is cheaper xD
> 
> Asking JH Audio for an update on the 3A. If no progress, cancelling. :| Also, dummy test fit shell is coming today, if it doesn't fit (for the second time) then I'm cancelling. I just don't have the time or money to get ANOTHER impression done. If this doesn't fit, I don't know what to do anymore. I went to different clinics to get them done so....


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> And the higher grade the wire is, the more transparent the sound will be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have you noticed a general difference in sound between copper and silver cables?


----------



## Girls Generation

windsor said:


> Have you noticed a general difference in sound between copper and silver cables?




Well, generally a copper will sound warmer and a bit more bassy. Silver will make the sound brighter, so definitely a no-no if you have an HD800. It also is more refined and will handle passages better than copper, though.  But the really top-of-the-line cables like the Rectangular wire (RS silver) won't have that much of an effect on the sound. It'll sound more refined, and more listenable overall over a upocc copper wire.  I hear Norse Audio's Norn cable is like this too.


----------



## DeadEars

I rolled a lot of my own wires for years, using various compositions, weaves, connectors and wire configurations.  In my own experimentation I find that the wire composition (silver vs. copper for instance) has less to do with the ultimate sound than the layout and construction of the wire, the insulation, and the connectors.  I've been extremely impressed with very fine Litz wire as least detrimental to frequency response and harmonic integrity.  The Q-Audio cables I bought were considerably nicer to listen to than any of my home brew varieties.
   
  The only big advantage silver has going for it is how it oxidizes.  Silver oxide is conductive, but copper oxide is not.  This matters in some of the tube amps I've built, especially when there's a lot of heat on the chassis.  As for headphone cables...  not so much.
   
  I would not make a decision of a cable based on its metallic composition (although I really disliked several silver plated copper cables I tried, so I would avoid those).  Insulation and layout/configuration have a huge impact.  And connectors really matter too, as does the quality of the solder/crimp connections by which they are attached to the wires.  Wire pricing can be just plain silly, and bears only an indirect relationship to SQ.  When possible, you should audition before buying, since synergies with wire and your system might differ.
   
  Hope this helps...


----------



## Girls Generation

Well, silver and copper differs in how silver presents the sound as is able to handle the complex passages with ease. It's just more refined, and that's all I can give you for that, but most will say silver will have a brighter sound than copper... so it all boils down to your needs and whether money is an issue. If money is infact an issue, just go for copper, it really honestly doesn't make that much of a difference for you to notice.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





deadears said:


> I rolled a lot of my own wires for years, using various compositions, weaves, connectors and wire configurations.  In my own experimentation I find that the wire composition (silver vs. copper for instance) has less to do with the ultimate sound than the layout and construction of the wire, the insulation, and the connectors.  I've been extremely impressed with very fine Litz wire as least detrimental to frequency response and harmonic integrity.  The Q-Audio cables I bought were considerably nicer to listen to than any of my home brew varieties.
> 
> The only big advantage silver has going for it is how it oxidizes.  Silver oxide is conductive, but copper oxide is not.  This matters in some of the tube amps I've built, especially when there's a lot of heat on the chassis.  As for headphone cables...  not so much.
> 
> ...


 

 And to think I only lived a few towns over from you DeadEars! I could have been feeding off your scraps in Norwalk.  WHY did I move away!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Well, silver and copper differs in how silver presents the sound as is able to handle the complex passages with ease. It's just more refined, and that's all I can give you for that, but most will say silver will have a brighter sound than copper... so it all boils down to your needs and whether money is an issue. If money is infact an issue, just go for copper, it really honestly doesn't make that much of a difference for you to notice.


 


 Good quality silver (6N) cables that are constructed well synergize very well with the LCD-2s (rev. 1 and 2) and tube amps (as interconnects).


----------



## tme110

This is amazing active for a 9 month old thread dedicated to cabling a single headphone!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





tme110 said:


> This is amazing active for a 9 month old thread dedicated to cabling a single headphone!


 


  More of a commentary of the headphone rather than the many cables discussion.


----------



## scootermafia

It's really more of a cool kid's club.  And the reason why fewer people are buying Sennheiser these days (from what I have seen in my work).  Where's the HD800 love thread?


----------



## Covenant

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> And the reason why fewer people are buying Sennheiser these days (from what I have seen in my work).  Where's the HD800 love thread?


 

 I've been a die-hard Sennheiser fanboy for years. Once I heard the LCD-2, that love affair (somewhat sadly) came to an end. It has all their tonal strengths, and none of their weaknesses.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





covenant said:


> I've been a die-hard Sennheiser fanboy for years. Once I heard the LCD-2, that love affair (somewhat sadly) came to an end. It has all their tonal strengths, and none of their weaknesses.


 

 To each their own. I still feel the HD800 (with DHC's silver cable...not copper) are the best headphones available (excluding the top STAX ie. SR-007, 009).
   
  The Q cable really improved the LCD-2s, but still not enough to match the spectacular layering and nuanced presentation of the Senns.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> To each their own. I still feel the HD800 (with DHC's silver cable...not copper) are the best headphones available (excluding the top STAX ie. SR-007, 009).
> 
> The Q cable really improved the LCD-2s, but still not enough to match the spectacular layering and nuanced presentation of the Senns.


 

 Have you tried a LCD-2 (with DHC silver cable....not copper) yet? Id like to see the LCD-2's and HD800's bump heads.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> *Good quality silver (6N) cables that are constructed well* synergize very well with the LCD-2s (rev. 1 and 2) and tube amps (as interconnects).


 
   
  For instance.......and how can we be sure that it is 6N?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Jalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> For instance.......and how can we be sure that it is 6N?


 
   
  Ultimately, you'd have to pay to have it assayed.
   
  se


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jalo said:


> For instance.......and how can we be sure that it is 6N?


 

 You can hear it....if it's bright and a bit thin sounding then you've got an issue. If you hear no effects on bass impact, and more liquid mids and treble (with more details) without being bright, then you've got a good cable (6N+). Or you could run an SEM on the conductors and pay through the nose to confirm it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Most reputable manufacturers will publish the purity of their silver conductors.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Have you tried a LCD-2 (with DHC silver cable....not copper) yet? Id like to see the LCD-2's and HD800's bump heads.


 


  I just got Peter's (DHC) RS silver for the Senns so I may get my current HD800 silver cable re-terminated for the LCD-2. That would make it a fair comparison, but it will take a month or two.
   
  (Peter I was initially planning to let the LCD-2 go, but decided to sell the T1s instead).


----------



## Jalo

I started a separate thread on this issue.
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/573163/questions-on-silver-cable


----------



## scootermafia

Attaboy!


----------



## DeadEars

[quote name="WarriorAnt" /> And to think I only lived a few towns over from you DeadEars! I could have been feeding off your scraps in Norwalk.  WHY did I move away!   
  
  
  
[/quote]

You might have trouble extracting the scraps. My workshop looks like a bomb went off in a 1960's electronics factory.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> I just got Peter's (DHC) RS silver for the Senns so I may get my current HD800 silver cable re-terminated for the LCD-2. That would make it a fair comparison, but it will take a month or two.
> 
> (Peter I was initially planning to let the LCD-2 go, but decided to sell the T1s instead).


 

 You could always get a Triple Threat.


----------



## oqvist

Is there any cable available for similar price as the ADZ 6 Balanced. I can´t get in contact with Audeze and thus can´t order the cable from them. The cable would be terminated in that 4-pin connector.


----------



## Covenant

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> To each their own. I still feel the HD800 (with DHC's silver cable...not copper) are the best headphones available (excluding the top STAX ie. SR-007, 009).
> 
> The Q cable really improved the LCD-2s, but still not enough to match the spectacular layering and nuanced presentation of the Senns.


 

 Fair call. I should amend my comment that the LCD-2's have all their tonal strengths and none of their weaknesses, but that being said, the HD800's ability to convey a large, layered, accurate soundstage is still superior. Depending on your musical preferences, these strengths might be important to you.
   
  But more important to me is the LCD-2's faster transient response, more extended, textured and impactful bass, and even greater fidelity of midrange tone. Sorry to derail the thread though.


----------



## WNBC

Hard to find a balanced cable in the same range as the $80 Audeze.  I know the price for the 10-foot Norse Audio 4-conductor SE was $149 a couple months ago.  I think it was the same price for the 4-pin but you should contact Trevor rather than take my word.  His newer Norn cable SE is around $219.  But, anything non-Audeze close to $80 might require a look at the used cable forum.      
  
  Quote: 





oqvist said:


> Is there any cable available for similar price as the ADZ 6 Balanced. I can´t get in contact with Audeze and thus can´t order the cable from them. The cable would be terminated in that 4-pin connector.


----------



## Windsor

The more I listen with the ALO Ref 8 silver/copper, the more I think it provides a brighter-than-hearing-friendly-level of-comfort-and-naturalness at moderate volumes (to my ears) with music fed to the LCD-2, so if/when I purchase my own aftermarket cable, I think a non-brightening option is the way to go for me with the LCD-2. Copper seems to be my preferred option at this time...
   
  I know that the Q-audio cable sounds great to many head-fiers (WA specifically included, esp due to his thorough review here). Just wondering, does anyone else have any other suggestions for a non-brightening but more revealing aftermarket cable for the LCD-2?


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Guys, I'm trying to figure out how to connect the mini 4pin xlr in a 4-wire configuration. I see the pin designation in the front but there is no label on the back. Pin 1 and 2 is positive, 3 and 4 negative (ground) right? I am stuck as to where I'm suppose to connect them. Am I right in the picture?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Guys, I'm trying to figure out how to connect the mini 4pin xlr in a 4-wire configuration. I see the pin designation in the front but there is no label on the back. Pin 1 and 2 is positive, 3 and 4 negative (ground) right? I am stuck as to where I'm suppose to connect them. Am I right in the picture?


 
   
  I'm afraid not.
   
  The "pins" you're showing aren't pins, but are rather part of the strain relief (they get bent over the wires to hold them in place).
   
  You have to pull that assembly out of the shell. The assembly has three pieces; the contact insert, a collar that fits around that, and then the metal strain relief that fits onto the collar.
   
  se


----------



## TigzStudio

For LCD-2 mini-xlr pinout

  
  Quote: 





semiaudiophile said:


> Guys, I'm trying to figure out how to connect the mini 4pin xlr in a 4-wire configuration. I see the pin designation in the front but there is no label on the back. Pin 1 and 2 is positive, 3 and 4 negative (ground) right? I am stuck as to where I'm suppose to connect them. Am I right in the picture?


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





windsor said:


> The more I listen with the ALO Ref 8 silver/copper, the more I think it provides a brighter-than-hearing-friendly-level of-comfort-and-naturalness at moderate volumes (to my ears) with music fed to the LCD-2, so if/when I purchase my own aftermarket cable, I think a non-brightening option is the way to go for me with the LCD-2. Copper seems to be my preferred option at this time...


 


 My Double Helix silver cable doesn't seem to add brightness in any way, in my perception.
  Whethers it's the rev.1 or rev.2, stock cable or DHX silver molecule, brightness is something I didn't hear at all. I was a little bit afraid for it with the silver cable, but no problems at all.


----------



## Girls Generation

proglover said:


> My Double Helix silver cable doesn't seem to add brightness in any way, in my perception.
> Whethers it's the rev.1 or rev.2, stock cable or DHX silver molecule, brightness is something I didn't hear at all. I was a little bit afraid for it with the silver cable, but no problems at all.




The higher grade the wire is, the less pronounced those "side-effects" are.


----------



## SemiAudiophile

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> I'm afraid not.
> 
> The "pins" you're showing aren't pins, but are rather part of the strain relief (they get bent over the wires to hold them in place).
> 
> ...


 
  ahh...duh! silly me. thanks.
  
  Now if I can find that other piece of the connector my cat stole while taking that picture.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Now if I can find that other piece of the connector my cat stole while taking that picture.


 

 You mean the ass end that screws onto the back? If so, if you can't find it, PM me an address and I'll drop one in the mail to you.
   
  Is that a genuine Switchcraft or one of the Chinese copies?
   
  se


----------



## SemiAudiophile

wow, that'd be awesome. thanks! i'm gonna try search for it again when i get home. i have a feeling its stuck under my fridge or washer somewhere. but i'll PM you if i can't find it. 
   
  I'm not sure if it's a genuine Switchcraft, it was bought off RedCo.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Their website doesn't say. They use the Switchcraft part number, but they say they have gold pins and Switchcraft pins are all silver. So they're probably Chinese copies. But the parts are probably interchangeable.
   
  se


----------



## Br777

redco used their own.. which probably means its a rebranded switchcraft, unless they actually have one made for them.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





br777 said:


> redco used their own.. which probably means its a rebranded switchcraft, unless they actually have one made for them.


 

 I'd wager they're just buying the Chinese copies. They're the only ones I've seen offered with black bodies and gold pins. You can get black bodies from Switchcraft, but all their pins are silver.
   
  se


----------



## oqvist

Does anyone here use the mini mogami cable or have experience with it? I encountered one of these wonderful DIY heroes offering such a cable. It looks really light and flexible.


----------



## log0

I received Norse Audio's latest cable today, "8 ft.  SE Norse Audio Norn Series Litz up-occ 4-wire LCD-2 headphone cable". Looks and sounds fantastic.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





log0 said:


> I received Norse Audio's latest cable today, "8 ft.  SE Norse Audio Norn Series Litz up-occ 4-wire LCD-2 headphone cable". Looks and sounds fantastic.


 
  Could you post some pictures?
   
  Thanks,
  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

I will get some pics up this weekend and share my thoughts on the Norn as well.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Could you post some pictures?
> 
> Thanks,
> -HK sends


----------



## rgs9200m

I wrote this in another thread about Q-audio & wanted to repeat it here.
Q-Audio is a great cable for the LCD2 (I have the Rev2 LCD2). I have the 3.5 meter Q-cable 1/4-inch for my LCD2s and after A/B comparison with the stock cable found the Q to be a significant improvement.
There is an overall sense of ease, naturalness, and a better more 3D soundstage. There is better image definition, and the images have better outlines, more realistic as opposed to paper-cutouts.
It is not brighter than the stock cable, but there is more detail, good see-into-the-music detail, but not hyper-anything. The bass is especially more controlled and a bit more transparent.
Vocals and other mids have more pleasant substance, too. This is a nice fatigue-free cable, I would say.


----------



## Shahrose

rgs9200m said:


> I wrote this in another thread about Q-audio & wanted to repeat it here.
> Q-Audio is a great cable for the LCD2 (I have the Rev2 LCD2). I have the 3.5 meter Q-cable 1/4-inch for my LCD2s and after A/B comparison with the stock cable found the Q to be a significant improvement.
> There is an overall sense of ease, naturalness, and a better more 3D soundstage. There is better image definition, and the images have better outlines, more realistic as opposed to paper-cutouts.
> It is not brighter than the stock cable, but there is more detail, good see-into-the-music detail, but not hyper-anything. The bass is especially more controlled and a bit more transparent.
> Vocals and other mids have more pleasant substance, too. This is a nice fatigue-free cable, I would say.




My thoughts exactly. Good description.


----------



## WNBC

*Norse Audio Norn Litz OCC Cable*
  I had the original Norse OCC LCD-2 cable for 4 months and I’ll gladly admit that I chose it at the time for the price-to-performance ratio based on comments in this thread and others.  The Norse cable ended up being a purchase that I did not regret.  My criticism for the older cable was that you always noticed it was there.  It wasn’t super heavy but it would fold and twist depending on its mood.  4 months later Trevor released the cotton-sheathed Norn series and because I liked the original cable on a sonic level I contacted him about the new cable.
   
*Comfort:  *now this is what I’m talking about.  Lighter than the original cable and doesn’t snake around itself.  For those that like to color coordinate, the cotton sheath is brown and black, closer match to the LCD-2 own colors.    
   
*Sound:*  Trevor said a little burn was necessary to temper the treble.  I didn’t think the treble out of the box was a worry but now a week later any additional burn in time is icing on the cake.  I don’t have much cable experience so all I can compare this cable to is the original Norse and Audeze (AZD-6) cables.  All of the Norse cables have a clarity/transparency that lifts the veil associated with the Audeze cable.  Audeze cable does have a bit more weight at the midrange and low end but at the cost of some detail and clarity.  As many have said, these aftermarket cables get out of the way and let your source, amp, and headphone do their jobs.  With the Norn I believe there are more details and clarity in the mid-bass and deep bass with a slight loss to impact in comparison to the original Norse cable.  The timbre of instruments is a shade more natural and accurate with the new cable as well.  I’m really digging vocals with this Litz cable as well.  The bass is balanced and smooth.  Some people thought the original Norse cable was a tad bright.  This is not the case with the Norn by any means, from far it.  I don’t know what to call it, treble control or accuracy, but it’s very obvious.    
   
*Conclusion:*  I really liked the original Norse cable so if you don’t care about cable entanglement then stick with it.  With the Norn I no longer notice the cable’s omnipresence so that’s worth the price of admission alone.  The other main advantage of the Norn is the naturalness I perceive across the entire dynamic range, especially at the top end.


----------



## HK_sends

Thanks for the impressions and the pictures, WNBC!  I really appreciate them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  Silly question, but does your Woo Headphone Stand leave enough room for the cable and plugs with the LCD-2?  I was thinking about getting one.


----------



## WNBC

Nah, not much room.  I never liked snaking 10 feet of cable on the upper platform where the headphones rest upon.
  I need one stand for the headphones and one stand for the cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Thanks for the impressions and the pictures, WNBC!  I really appreciate them.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

I know what you mean. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks!
   
  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Nah, not much room.  I never liked snaking 10 feet of cable on the upper platform where the headphones rest upon.
> I need one stand for the headphones and one stand for the cables


----------



## MorbidToaster

Strongly considering a DHC recable, but I want to know where people are ordering the Norse cables from? I seem to be having trouble figuring that out. They look gorgeous and I want to get a quote.


----------



## Girls Generation

PM TigzStudio


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Strongly considering a DHC recable, but I want to know where people are ordering the Norse cables from? I seem to be having trouble figuring that out. They look gorgeous and I want to get a quote.


 


  +1 to DHC cables, my whole cable inventory is from Peter at DHC. I am a very happy customer


----------



## MorbidToaster

They just have some excellent options are far as price goes compared to other places. They look great, too. Might go ahead and do that.
  
  Quote: 





yeemanz said:


> +1 to DHC cables, my whole cable inventory is from Peter at DHC. I am a very happy customer


----------



## treal512

Yohoho 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Trevor from Norse Audio has top notch customer service. I'll post more later. School is destroying me.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





treal512 said:


>


 

 Nice cable pic.


----------



## coolcat

After tried some cables for the LCD2 ,I really like these cables
  1 apursound V3 not so pricey but good overall. Great tonality
  2  Zeus Cast CU HEX24 : crytal clear treble,deep and hard hitting Bass,decent soundstage ,very dynamic, make the LCD2 a lot faster and harder, great for hiphop,rock and RnB,Bass heavy music.
  3 ALO SaltnPeppers: provide better soundstage and instrument seperation than the Zeus. The mid is lifelike and seductive,softer so not as dynamic as the Zeus. The cable suit every genre.
  4 SAA Endorphin : suit very well with the rev1 It's a very excellent cable in every area (huge soundstage ,so transparent  etc.).The  weaknesses are only ,it seems to reduce the  rev2 bass till the ponit that Basshead like me can not accept and pricey. Great for Jazz and pop rock in general (if you don't care much about the Bass in case of the rev2)
   
   
  you may  prefer one cable to another from song to song.I can't tell which is better between them (Zeus Cast CU HEX24 ,ALO SaltnPeppers,SAA Endorphin )
   
  Actually I really like the Endorphin,because it turns my rev2 to sound closer to the O2,but its' weakness in Bass make me want more cable.


----------



## Loevhagen

You haven't tried the Q yet? Wow, what a shame.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





coolcat said:


> After tried some cables for the LCD2 ,I really like these cables
> 1 apursound V3 not so pricey but good overall. Great tonality
> 2  Zeus Cast CU HEX24 : crytal clear treble,deep and hard hitting Bass,decent soundstage ,very dynamic, make the LCD2 a lot faster and harder, great for hiphop,rock and RnB,Bass heavy music.
> 3 ALO SaltnPeppers: provide better soundstage and instrument seperation than the Zeus. The mid is lifelike and seductive,softer so not as dynamic as the Zeus. The cable suit every genre.
> ...


 


  I have the Endorphin on my rev.1 and the bass is punchy and cavernous when required. Find it hard to understand why it should have a negative effect with the bass of the rev.2


----------



## Frihed89

Is this still the case?
   
   
*Edit 4/9/11:*
*Good news!  Looks like Q-Audio has revised their prices a lot lower than they were at introduction.  They're balanced and terminated in an A4M, with TRS unbalanced adapter included.*
   
*New pricing is:*
   

 *1.0M - $200*
 *1.5M - $215*
 *2.0M - $230*
 *2.5M - $250 *
 *3.0M - $275 *
 *3.5M - $300 *
 *4.0M - $340*


----------



## Girls Generation

Yes. http://q-audio.com/


----------



## obazavil

Where is that A4M termination note? I can't read it anywhere...
  Quote: 





frihed89 said:


> Is this still the case?
> 
> 
> *Edit 4/9/11:*
> ...


----------



## scootermafia

TA4M is the standard 4 pin female mini XLR that all LCD2 cables use.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> TA4M is the standard 4 pin female mini XLR that all LCD2 cables use.


 

 TA4M is Switchcraft's part number (they invented and patented the mini-XLR). However the TA4M is a male cable plug. LCD-2 cables use a female cable plug, the TA4F. The male panel mount plug (TB4M) is what's in the LCD-2's eacpieces.
   
  se


----------



## Windsor

Nice to see two MsOT sharing knowledge with each other and the head-fi community.


----------



## scootermafia

There's my epic dyslexia coming out, I meant to keep it a secret.  Yep, F = female, M = male, and you can have a 3F or an 8F for more or less pins.  I know that the JH3A uses an 8 pin version, and the thought of soldering one of those makes me a sad panda.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> There's my epic dyslexia coming out, I meant to keep it a secret.


 

 Not your fault. Kevin's fault. The quote with the pricing was a quote from one of Kevin's posts from earlier this year, and he's the one who made the original "A4M" faux pas.
   
  se


----------



## MorbidToaster

If I had money right now I'd buy a 2.5m 4 pin cable and the adapter for SE use. Ugh.
  
  Quote: 





frihed89 said:


> Is this still the case?
> 
> 
> *Edit 4/9/11:*
> ...


----------



## Hero Kid

Regarding those new prices... what were they in the past? I forgot :/


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Regarding those new prices... what were they in the past? I forgot :/


 

 About double that.
   
  When Kevin asked me what I'd be pricing the headphone cable at, I rather flippantly said I'd just price them the same as the interconnects and speaker cables and so that's what he originally posted. Then it finally dawned on me that interconnects and speaker cables were sold in stereo pairs whereas a headphone cable was more like just a single cable.
   
  Big faceplant on my part that day.
   
  Fortunately I'd only received a handful of orders by then so when I worked up the proper pricing for the headphone cables, everyone was refunded the difference. So no one's ever paid more than the current prices.
   
  se


----------



## drez

Good thread there - but better we don't discuss it here.
   
  I have been testing a ZXAC cable I borrowed.  As for definite differences compared to the Canare Star Quad it is a larger difference that many other tweaks I have tried.  
  In terms of the magnitude I would place it slightly behind changing to upsampling on my DI.  Some of the effects I have noticed are sharper leading edge of transients and a slight shrinking/sharpening of images.
  So yes I am confident I could reliably pick the differences.
  While the Canare star quad provides BIG and rounded sound, the ZXAC is more defined and hard edged, but not at all harsh.  The tonality is still warm, but with a greater sense of clarity and space.
  Possible downside is a loss of an intimate and rotund character which some may find appealing in the Canare.
   
  Of course much of this could be down to the NFB-10 balanced sabre dac/amp i am using, which apparently mirrors many of the characteristics the ZXAC is supposedly bringing.
   
  Q cable is on the way.


----------



## pp312

Anyone tried Sigma Acoustics cable with the LCD-2? Only about $110, look pretty professional.


----------



## WNBC

So you are thinking of going silver?  
  Not much info about these cables but the guy does have a good Ebay rating http://myworld.ebay.com/sigmaacoustics1/
  Ebay username is based in Israel.  The website is a little weak.  Click on "affiliates" or "about us" and it doesn't work.
   
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Anyone tried Sigma Acoustics cable with the LCD-2? Only about $110, look pretty professional.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Any estimate on the average wait time for one of these gorgeous cables?
  
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> About double that.
> 
> When Kevin asked me what I'd be pricing the headphone cable at, I rather flippantly said I'd just price them the same as the interconnects and speaker cables and so that's what he originally posted. Then it finally dawned on me that interconnects and speaker cables were sold in stereo pairs whereas a headphone cable was more like just a single cable.
> 
> ...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Any estimate on the average wait time for one of these gorgeous cables?


 

 Been running around 4-6 business days from order to ship. But I'm spending Monday through Wednesday of this week getting stuff ready for the Rocky Mountain show so lead times will likely be a bit longer over the next week or so as I catch up on backorders.
   
  se


----------



## USAudio

Are there any LCD-2 aftermarket cables available for around $100 for a 3m length, TRS termination, but that is still better than the stock cable?
   
  I liked the LCD-2 Rev.1 cable better than the Rev.2 cable.


----------



## obazavil

I just ordered a Q cable, 2.5m to mini-xlr, and 2 adapters (mini-xlr to 1/4 and 1/8).
   
  Can't wait to get them 
   
  (Of course also ordered a LCD-2 rev2 from Drew @ moon-audio)
   
  *rubbing hands*


----------



## Pudu

morbidtoaster said:


> Any estimate on the average wait time for one of these gorgeous cables?




Whatever it is at the moment, it's worth it.

Got mine today and they are lovely. The natural fibres are such a nice change from the standard petroleum based stuff. They simply radiate quality and class. 

And included in the deal is some of the best customer service you'll come across. An all around brilliant experience. Thanks Steve -> Now get back to work.


----------



## gurus

Ordered mine from Q-Audio and I don't even have a LCD-2!


----------



## drez

well if you factor in lead time


----------



## justie

does anybody have suggestions for a lightweight cable? Im perfectly satisfied with the sound from my rev.1 so im not looking into changing the sound so much. I do however, find that the stock cable is heavy and gets in the way alot so im looking for one thats light and small. Also hoping to not spend over $200 on a cable >< is there such a thing out there? XD


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





justie said:


> does anybody have suggestions for a lightweight cable? Im perfectly satisfied with the sound from my rev.1 so im not looking into changing the sound so much. I do however, find that the stock cable is heavy and gets in the way alot so im looking for one thats light and small. Also hoping to not spend over $200 on a cable >< is there such a thing out there? XD


 


 That's one of the big advantages of many aftermarket cables over the stock one.
   
  Lot's of suggestions in this thread, Double Helix, Norse, Q-Audio.......
  You can get a Q-Audio 1mt for 200, the Double Helix molecule can be bought under 200 and probably the Norse too (not 100% sure about Norse cause I never got into those).
   
  The one which got the word 'lightweight' the most in this topic, is the Q-Audio


----------



## justie

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been considering the q-audio but being the stingy person i am, was wodnering if there are any other options that are even cheaper. XD
  
  Quote: 





proglover said:


> That's one of the big advantages of many aftermarket cables over the stock one.
> 
> Lot's of suggestions in this thread, Double Helix, Norse, Q-Audio.......
> You can get a Q-Audio 1mt for 200, the Double Helix molecule can be bought under 200 and probably the Norse too (not 100% sure about Norse cause I never got into those).
> ...


----------



## MorbidToaster

Buy the cable and make it yourself. Super cheap that way.
  Quote: 





justie said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I've been considering the q-audio but being the stingy person i am, was wodnering if there are any other options that are even cheaper. XD


----------



## Pudu

proglover said:


> That's one of the big advantages of many aftermarket cables over the stock one.
> 
> Lot's of suggestions in this thread, Double Helix, Norse, Q-Audio.......
> You can get a Q-Audio 1mt for 200, the Double Helix molecule can be bought under 200 and probably the Norse too (not 100% sure about Norse cause I never got into those).
> ...




Q-cables are light, flexible and comfortable. They make a T1 cable look like a transatlantic telegraph line. The cotton gives the Q's an organic feel - more like clothing than electronics. 

Is it wrong to fondle your headphone cable?


----------



## WNBC

6 foot 4-wire Norse Norn is $180 and 8 foot is $200.  It's lightweight.  It's an improvement over the stock cable that came with my rev2.  I had the older Norse non-Litz cable with LCD-2 rev1 and while it wasn't lightweight I preferred over the stock cable so my guess is you'll like the Norn with the rev1 as well.  
   
  Whether it is Q, Norse, Double Helix, etc. if you are willing to go with less length you might be able to go under that $200 price point.  I like having the 10-foot cable but I could have been ok with say 7 or 8 feet. 
  
  Quote: 





justie said:


> does anybody have suggestions for a lightweight cable? Im perfectly satisfied with the sound from my rev.1 so im not looking into changing the sound so much. I do however, find that the stock cable is heavy and gets in the way alot so im looking for one thats light and small. Also hoping to not spend over $200 on a cable >< is there such a thing out there? XD


----------



## WNBC

Hey, you paid for it, you go for it!  Set up a webcam and make a little extra money on the side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





pudu said:


> Is it wrong to fondle your headphone cable?


----------



## ninjikiran

Just thought I would update on the Norse 4w
   
  The cable is still holding up quiet well, no nics or cuts or disconnected solder joints after all of the abuse that I have given to it over the last few months.  Its lighter than the stock cable still(like this would ever change xD)
   
  I am not really a believer but its a good cable still if you have the extra cash.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


pudu said:


> Q-cables are light, flexible and comfortable. They make a T1 cable look like a transatlantic telegraph line. The cotton gives the Q's an organic feel - more like clothing than electronics.
> *Is it wrong to fondle your headphone cable?*


 
  If it's alright to tie your wife/girlfriend up with it, I'm sure it's alright fondle it...


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> 6 foot 4-wire Norse Norn is $180 and 8 foot is $200.  It's lightweight.  It's an improvement over the stock cable that came with my rev2.  I had the older Norse non-Litz cable with LCD-2 rev1 and while it wasn't lightweight I preferred over the stock cable so my guess is you'll like the Norn with the rev1 as well.
> 
> Whether it is Q, Norse, Double Helix, etc. if you are willing to go with less length you might be able to go under that $200 price point.  I like having the 10-foot cable but I could have been ok with say 7 or 8 feet.


 

 I second this, but the Norn and the Norse 4 conductor are the only aftermarket LCD-2 cables I have heard, so keep that in mind. Norse Audio's newest cable, the Norn, however, is extremely light. So light that it's like my LCD-2s went wireless. The previous 4 conductor and 2 OEM cables I have tried always got in the way. It wasn't overly bothersome, but when you experience a cable practically disappearing from your thoughts, you realize how "in the way" it can get. I am very happy with my Norn cable in that regard and the price is excellent.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





justie said:


> does anybody have suggestions for a lightweight cable? Im perfectly satisfied with the sound from my rev.1 so im not looking into changing the sound so much. I do however, find that the stock cable is heavy and gets in the way alot so im looking for one thats light and small. Also hoping to not spend over $200 on a cable >< is there such a thing out there? XD


 

  
  The Q Cable disappears from use.  You won't even know it's on your headphones.   I use a 3M cable.  It allows me to sit and listen and also to stretch out on the floor to straighten my world worn back when need be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    The Q sounds great also.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





justie said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I've been considering the q-audio but being the stingy person i am, was wodnering if there are any other options that are even cheaper. XD


 

 You might try Audez'e's latest stock cable, the ADZ-6, it is significantly lighter than the ADZ-5 that came with my Rev. 1's. You might even be able to buy on Head-Fi from someone who's bought an aftermarket cable and is no longer using the stock cable.


----------



## rgs9200m

Q-cable all the way. Best sound, light as a feather. Excuse me for repeating myself from previous posts.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





elnero said:


> You might try Audez'e's latest stock cable, the ADZ-6, it is significantly lighter than the ADZ-5 that came with my Rev. 1's. You might even be able to buy on Head-Fi from someone who's bought an aftermarket cable and is no longer using the stock cable.


 

 I wish the ADZ-5 was still available, I prefer it over the ADZ-6.


----------



## MorbidToaster

As do I. I liked the original cable on the Rev 1 I tried. 
  
  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I wish the ADZ-5 was still available, I prefer it over the ADZ-6.


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> So you are thinking of going silver?


 


 Can't go along with those who find the Rev 1 muted, but I wouldn't object to just a smidgeon more articulation in the extreme treble. Had success with a silver cable on the HD650; thought it might work with the LCD-2. Too lousy to spend much more than $100, and don't feel a cable can make that much difference anyway, certainly not more than $100 worth.


----------



## WNBC

An aftermarket cable is something you need to hear at a meet or buy on pure faith and reviews.  We go in as skeptics but quickly become converts. So it takes a willingness to part with one's own money on a chance it might improve sound quality.  I work with a lot of engineers and materials scientists.  They all said cables wouldn't make a difference.  They're all wrong.  They are very smart but not when it comes to materials and audio perception.  I went in biased one way and came out another way.  One thing you don't read very often are examples of people _buying_ headphone cables and then saying it doesn't make a noticeable positive difference.  People who say it doesn't make a difference often have not actually tried them.  I don't say one needs an aftermarket cable.  It's often refinement.  Whether or not it's worth >$100 I don't know.  I can't make them so I'm going to be paying market value.  Heck, a bag of Doritos ain't worth $3.49 of corn and cheese powder but sometimes you gotta have it.
  
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Can't go along with those who find the Rev 1 muted, but I wouldn't object to just a smidgeon more articulation in the extreme treble. Had success with a silver cable on the HD650; thought it might work with the LCD-2. Too lousy to spend much more than $100, and don't feel a cable can make that much difference anyway, certainly not more than $100 worth.


----------



## Windsor

Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Can't go along with those who find the Rev 1 muted, but I wouldn't object to just a smidgeon more articulation in the extreme treble. Had success with a silver cable on the HD650; thought it might work with the LCD-2. Too lousy to spend much more than $100, and don't feel a cable can make that much difference anyway, certainly not more than $100 worth.


 

 From my experience, there's a definite refinement and improvement to be experienced via an aftermarket headphone cable. I'd recommend trying an aftermarket cable and from a high mood, listening to your gut re. what your ear and wallet suggest.


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> An aftermarket cable is something you need to hear at a meet or buy on pure faith and reviews.  We go in as skeptics but quickly become converts. So it takes a willingness to part with one's own money on a chance it might improve sound quality.  I work with a lot of engineers and materials scientists.  They all said cables wouldn't make a difference.  They're all wrong.  They are very smart but not when it comes to materials and audio perception.  I went in biased one way and came out another way.  One thing you don't read very often are examples of people _buying_ headphone cables and then saying it doesn't make a noticeable positive difference.  People who say it doesn't make a difference often have not actually tried them.  I don't say one needs an aftermarket cable.  It's often refinement.  Whether or not it's worth >$100 I don't know.  I can't make them so I'm going to be paying market value.  Heck, a bag of Doritos ain't worth $3.49 of corn and cheese powder but sometimes you gotta have it.


 

 Nice post, WNBC. My experience with the HD650 cable is that it did not increase treble, which is of course impossible, but rather improved general clarity and treble articulation, leading to an _impression _of increased treble. It was subtle, and sometimes I doubted my ears and tried to go back to the stock cable (which was more supple and convenient), but each time became quickly dissatisfied and returned to the aftermarket product. No way to prove these things, especially with DBT, but I was ultimately satisfied that the cable was worth at least a reasonable part of the $180 it cost.
   
  Trouble was, I soon after upgraded to the LCD-2.


----------



## pseudohippy

Just joined the LCD nerd cable club lol. Got the Norn 8 wire 8' single ended cable. For whatever reason Trevor told me they were doing a very limited promotion where he gave me a 4 wire 8' single ended cable for free 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So I guess I have two new cables coming in to compare. Thanks to everyone in this thread for helping me decide. Norse has excellent customer service. We have been emailing back and forth all night. He is right on top of all my email. Above and beyond.  Lets see how quickly it gets here now hehe


----------



## drez

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Just joined the LCD nerd cable club lol. Got the Norn 8 wire 8' single ended cable. For whatever reason Trevor told me they were doing a very limited promotion where he gave me a 4 wire 8' single ended cable for free
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Looking forward to your impressions.  I have the Q on order, but I can't help but wonder what 8 wires with consequent lower resistance and inductance would do to the sound.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





drez said:


> Looking forward to your impressions.  I have the Q on order, but I can't help but wonder what 8 wires with consequent lower resistance and inductance would do to the sound.


 
  How do you arrive at lower inductance?


----------



## FinBenton

Is there any white braded cables? Or any other braided?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





finbenton said:


> Is there any white braded cables? Or any other braided?


 

 All you gotta do is ask!


----------



## Girls Generation

cifani090 said:


> All you gotta do is ask!




@ DHC you mean.


----------



## scootermafia

White cables?  Now I've heard of everything.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> White cables?  Now I've heard of everything.


 


  Cleaner highs.


----------



## FinBenton

Maybe I need to make my own then


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> Cleaner highs.






But might be overly bright.





Edit: 

Does unbleached cotton count as white?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> @ DHC you mean.


 

 If thats who you'd like your cable to be made by. What kind of "white-braid" do you want? You can get a clear textured sleeving, or a metal casing. Ive never heard of a "white" sleeving, tell you the truth.
   
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> White cables?  Now I've heard of everything.


 

 It would get dirt fast!
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Cleaner highs.


----------



## FinBenton

Quote: 





pudu said:


> But might be overly bright.
> Edit:
> Does unbleached cotton count as white?


 

 Yeah yeah looks good, thats more what I was looking for. Where are those from?


----------



## pseudohippy

Looks like Norse Audio to me.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Looks like Norse Audio to me.


 


  The above photo?   that's the Q Cable.


----------



## TigzStudio

Nope that picture is not a Norse Audio cable.  Our cotton jacketed headphone cable has one option for color (brown+black). 
   
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Looks like Norse Audio to me.


----------



## pseudohippy

My bad, I forgot I looked at that site last night when I saw that pic. Assumed it was from the wrong place. All three of these cable makers have nice looking cables thats for sure.


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> The above photo?   that's the Q Cable.





Ding ding ding.

It is indeed. Sorry, I really didn't mean to omit that bit. 




pseudohippy said:


> ... All three of these cable makers have nice looking cables thats for sure.




That's the truth.


----------



## WarriorAnt

ever since I attached the Q Cable to my LCD's I have completely forgotten there is a cable attached to the headphones.


----------



## pseudohippy

I want a cable from all three of these makers to test out but that doesnt seem sensible lol. Not that this hobby is all that sensible anyhow hehe. I actually have a zxac cable from Zombie on my DT880 and thats a nice cable also, so make it four cable makers. ALO is the only cable I see talked about often that I dont want.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I want a cable from all three of these makers to test out but that doesnt seem sensible lol. Not that this hobby is all that sensible anyhow hehe. I actually have a zxac cable from Zombie on my DT880 and thats a nice cable also, so make it four cable makers. ALO is the only cable I see talked about often that I dont want.


 

 why don't you want the ALO?


----------



## obazavil

My Q cables are at the hotel, waiting for me with my Ed8 LE.
   
  Lorenz 3-micca arrived yesterday.
   
   
  Problem?... LCD-2 arrive until tuesday next week...
   
  Nooooooooo......


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> why don't you want the ALO?


 


  Oh crap, my bad again. Its not that I dont want it but when I started adding the option of having it be 8' which is essentially my minimum I think it came up to $685. I wanted the salt and pepper model. That made me a little sick to my stomach after just buying the LCD's and the Bifrost. I actually thought about it for days while pining over it but couldnt get over the price. I dont have the golden ears nor the budget at this time to make it ok to purchase. Then I found this thread and it took about an hour to make an order, although the three were a complete tossup with the wooden splitter and general looks putting me or the Norse side. Really though, it could have gone either way. Reviews make them all sound pretty equal to me quality wise. I must admit, I like the cotton sheathing look a lot, more than the exposed wire.


----------



## Girls Generation

Only thing deterring me from the ALO cable is te pricey price  do love the salt n pepper and the white one Jude has.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> How do you arrive at lower inductance?


 


  From what I understand Inductance is mostly determined by cable geometry.  At least with kimber speaker cables, they are able to achieve lower inductance with more wires, using a twisted geometry, but that's about the limit of my insight.
  Maybe Tigz or SE can help me out here?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Oh crap, my bad again. Its not that I dont want it but when I started adding the option of having it be 8' which is essentially my minimum I think it came up to $685. I wanted the salt and pepper model. That made me a little sick to my stomach after just buying the LCD's and the Bifrost. I actually thought about it for days while pining over it but couldnt get over the price. I dont have the golden ears nor the budget at this time to make it ok to purchase. Then I found this thread and it took about an hour to make an order, although the three were a complete tossup with the wooden splitter and general looks putting me or the Norse side. Really though, it could have gone either way. Reviews make them all sound pretty equal to me quality wise. I must admit, I like the cotton sheathing look a lot, more than the exposed wire.


 


  I understand about the stomach thing.  I took me a while to calm my stomach when I spent $1K on a pair of cans...
   
  Don't think I would ever pick a cable for its looks though. I care more about its sonic performance than its looks.
   
  Everyone has a golden ear. you just have to develop it.


----------



## pseudohippy

I wanted an aftermarket cable for several reasons. I dont like the stock one, I feel it looks cheap and it kinda veils the sound slightly. Also, I just dont like flat ribbon cables. I dont like the way they store. I dont like the rubbery feel. I think the LCD deserve a more refined look. I feet Audeze came up short on the stock cable. Ive heard the ALO cable at a couple meets and on my own system. I feel it did what I expected and was similar tothe marketing Norse sent me, they think along the lines I do. The better the material, the less you will hear the cable. The cable shouldnt have sonic properties in my way of thinking. We likely disagree in this and thats fine. Im looking at the materials used in all of these cables and they are very similar and they all get pretty good reviews, so I kinda focused more on the looks than I normally would. If I could test them all first I would.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I agree cables should not have sonic properties.  They all do though in some way or another.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I loathe stock cable more for the connector than anything. That1/4" just feels flimsy. Although the cable isn't a big step up either. 
   
  I do however _love_ ribbon cables. Not cheap ones like this...but Stax cables? Mmmmm...
  
  Bottom line comes to I want an aftermarket cable for a higher build quality, customizable length, and balanced termination options. I may not use them but I want them available to me. 
   
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I wanted an aftermarket cable for several reasons. *I dont like the stock one, I feel it looks cheap* and it kinda veils the sound slightly. Also,* I just dont like flat ribbon cables*. I dont like the way they store. I dont like the rubbery feel. I think the LCD deserve a more refined look. I feet Audeze came up short on the stock cable. Ive heard the ALO cable at a couple meets and on my own system. I feel it did what I expected and was similar tothe marketing Norse sent me, they think along the lines I do. The better the material, the less you will hear the cable. The cable shouldnt have sonic properties in my way of thinking. We likely disagree in this and thats fine. Im looking at the materials used in all of these cables and they are very similar and they all get pretty good reviews, so I kinda focused more on the looks than I normally would. If I could test them all first I would.


----------



## Equus

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I wanted an aftermarket cable for several reasons. I dont like the stock one, I feel it looks cheap and it kinda veils the sound slightly. Also, I just dont like flat ribbon cables. I dont like the way they store. I dont like the rubbery feel. I think the LCD deserve a more refined look. I feet Audeze came up short on the stock cable. Ive heard the ALO cable at a couple meets and on my own system. I feel it did what I expected and was similar tothe marketing Norse sent me, they think along the lines I do. The better the material, the less you will hear the cable. The cable shouldnt have sonic properties in my way of thinking. We likely disagree in this and thats fine. Im looking at the materials used in all of these cables and they are very similar and they all get pretty good reviews, so I kinda focused more on the looks than I normally would. If I could test them all first I would.


 


 Cool man.  We'll have to do some comparisons the next Seattle meet.  I have two sets of Q-Audio SE cables and Josh has a balanced pair.  Out of curiosity, is the ALO cable you're referring to the one I had?


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





equus said:


> Cool man.  We'll have to do some comparisons the next Seattle meet.  I have two sets of Q-Audio SE cables and Josh has a balanced pair.  Out of curiosity, is the ALO cable you're referring to the one I had?


 


  I think it was yours. If you remember where I was at Bottlehead in that back room. Somebody walked in with the LCD and the ALO cable and wanted to test in on the Lyr but I dont think it was theirs. So I dont know for sure it was yours but it was definitely the ALO chainmail. Then me and you spent a small amount of time switching between the stacker with the ALO and the stock cable and I like the way the LCD opened up and didnt seem as veiled to me. It wasnt much diffferance to me and I think I said that then but it was a difference. I wanted the ALO cable, just couldnt pull the trigger at that price. The Norn is much cheaper. I cant wait to test the Q cable for sure.


----------



## Equus

Oh yeah, if it was at Bottlehead then it was almost definitely my old 8-wire ALO chainmail cable.  I can't think of anyone else offhand who would have had one up here.  Haven't had a chance to listen to any of the newer cables from ALO, but I definitely can't complain about the Q-Audio cables.  Which is why when I needed a much longer cable for my setup in the condo, I became the slightly poorer but proud owner of two.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've had a chance to directly compare the ALO and a Norse cable, but not while I had the Q.  Should be fun!


----------



## Pudu

I just wanted a second cable so I could re-terminate one. Once you face the price of the stock cable it's pretty easy to justify the step up to one of these beautifully made aftermarket options.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





drez said:


> From what I understand Inductance is mostly determined by cable geometry.  At least with kimber speaker cables, they are able to achieve lower inductance with more wires, using a twisted geometry, but that's about the limit of my insight.
> Maybe Tigz or SE can help me out here?


 
  Well, one needs to account for mutual inductance which will affect the net, as well as the increased capacitance, even though the imaginary/reactive values are quite low.


----------



## drez

Two litz cables arrived today, problem is I have only one head and two ears.
  Many thanks to SE and Tigz for great service.
  For diplomatic reasons I will not compare these cables directly - enough to say though that both of these have a similar truly natural, open and transparent sound which brings acoustic music to life.
  I will probably keep both of these and use one of them on a Thunderpants.
   
  EDIT: scratch that, the more I listen to these the more different they seem.  I will leave it at that the Norn is slightly warmer and has a more full bodied/present tone, while the Q throws a wider soundstage with crisper images.
  The Norn brings back the tonal richness of the r1, while the Q continues on the path of improved soundstage and crisper imaging of the r2. These are both very high sound quality cables, however it would appear that they are seeking quite different characteristics.  To further clarify, those lamenting the loss of tonal richness/presence from the r.1, yet wish to retain advantages in soundstage and detail have a cable, and those seeking even more soundstage, detail definition and image clarity have a cable.


----------



## drez

Returned to testing the ZXAC Nucleotide wire cable, it lies between the Norse and the Q in terms of warm/cold - the Q to me currently sounds the most spacious and clean, but also a little cold in its presentation, and the Norn utterly natural and seductive, but slightly prone to bloom in busy passages.  I'm not sure if this is something that changes with burn in (with either cable.)  Perhaps this comparison is unfair as the ZXAC is well and truly burned in, as I bought it second hand.
   
  As an aside, the ZXAC website is down, but you can always shoot zombieX a pm, AFAIK DHC also use nucleotide wire in their cables.  As an aside this is also the cheapest cable of the lot by a small margin from the Norn, with the Q the dearest of the 3.
   
  In my system the Nucleotide wire is quite the goldilocks cable.  my only issue is that the naked wire is prone to damage, so the techflex option is probably a good investment.  I may have to reterminate/replace this cable as it has started to corrode in a spot (I blame Auspost for leaving it in the rain, many thanks)


----------



## scootermafia

It is "DHC Nucleotide" - hmmmmmmmm
   
  The rain won't dissolve polyethylene, it's resistant to acids, bases, oxidants, reductants, you name it.  Sharp objects are its only enemy.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Sharp objects are its only enemy.


 

 And its chief weapon is surprise. Surprise an fear... its _two_ weapons are fear and surprise, and ruthless efficiency... its _three_ weapons are fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Its four... No. Amongst its weapons are such elements as fear, surpr... I'll come in again.
   




   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

Oh zipper,  I never thought you would do this to my cable, I thought you just wanted to give it a hug.


----------



## flu_fighter

Nice variation of the Spanish Inquisition, Steve.
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> And its chief weapon is surprise. Surprise an fear... its _two_ weapons are fear and surprise, and ruthless efficiency... its _three_ weapons are fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Its four... No. Amongst its weapons are such elements as fear, surpr... I'll come in again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## TigzStudio

Drez,
   
  Out of curiousity what is your current source/amp that you are using?
   
  Thanks for all the work in comparisons!


----------



## Girls Generation

The big three in one page? No way


----------



## scootermafia

His profile says an AudioGD NFB-10ES.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Drez,
> 
> Out of curiousity what is your current source/amp that you are using?
> 
> Thanks for all the work in comparisons!


 

  
  As above NFB-10 ES - so firmly in mid-fi lol.  I have heard it is prone to a little upper midrange 'excitement', so I'm not sure if this is causing the slight bloom I am hearing or not, but so far nobody else seems to notice this with the Norn.  People also seem to refer to burn in with the Q, So I might have to leave that to burn in for a while also.


----------



## drez

I should probably extrapolate further.  The NFB-10 ES I have has been upgraded with AGD's TCXO which has been noted to lend more body to the sound versus the original/other TCXO's, so this is by no means an analytical sounding unit, and probably has more body than a typical ESS Sabre DAC.  Returning to discussion of the cables, The Norn shows a great ability to render depth and width in the headstage while still still retaining a full bodied and natural sound.  In terms of the sonic perspective, the Norn places you as the conductor, the ZXAC in the from few seats, and the Q a couple of seats further back.  With the Norn, the closest instruments sound closer than the others, and by contrast the furthest instruments proportionally further.  The full body of the images and close proximity of the nearest instruments however lends a more forward and engaging character to the sound, where the Q and ZXAC are slightly more laid back, and this laid back character, as I have noted increases the perception of instrument separation.  For critical listening I would probably pick the Q or ZXAC for its less forward imaging, for pure immersion though it is hard to beat the Norn.  Overall it is incredible though that for circa $200 you can buy such high quality cables which allow one to significantly change the presentation of your system.  
   
  One of these days I promise I will formalise these impressions into a review rather than spewing train of thought on this thread, however I am concerned by the lack of activity and wished to spur some dialogue (maybe people are saving for LCD-3 lol)


----------



## rgs9200m

I like the Q cable. If anyone wants to buy my 12-foot ALO Chainmail XLR cable for a good price, please PM me. Thanks.
   
  I think I have a nice quality Cardas XLR-to-1/4-inch adaptor I'll toss in if you need it.


----------



## MorbidToaster

YGPM
  
  Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I like the Q cable. If anyone wants to buy my 12-foot ALO Chainmail XLR cable for a good price, please PM me. Thanks.
> 
> I think I have a nice quality Cardas XLR-to-1/4-inch adaptor I'll toss in if you need it.


----------



## Stevtt

I love this thread


----------



## olor1n

Got a good deal from drez on a q-audio cable. Finally hearing my setup balanced for the first time. I like what I'm hearing so far, but if the price of admission only bought the improved ergonomics the cable would still be worth it. I don't entirely hate the stock cable but the improvement in overall comfort the q-audio brings is significant.


----------



## Argo Duck

olor1n your further impressions posted this morning of the Q cable in the NFB-10 thread were interesting. Reminded me about _this_ thread which I hadn't visited recently. Think I'm gonna try one of these aftermarket cables myself.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I finally made it through this thread. Funny thing is the lcd-2 cable doesn't really bother me, the HE-500 one on the other hand...
  It's weird there's no HE-500 cable thread like this one (or is there?)
   
  Looks like I'll be contacting Norse and Q


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> It's weird there's no HE-500 cable thread like this one (or is there?)


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/he-6-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use
   
  For my pics: http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/he-6-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use/15#post_7584131


----------



## treal512

Wow, those color options on the Q-cable look great!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/he-6-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use
> 
> For my pics: http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/he-6-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use/15#post_7584131


 

  
  Thanks!
   
  Has anyone tried this: http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37
  I was thinking of getting a Q cable for the LCD-2 and one of these connectors for the HE-500. Good idea?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


treal512 said:


> Wow, those color options on the Q-cable look great!!


 

 When I was ordering, I saw pictures of the purple, and thought it looked good, so I went that route, but there are actually quite a few color choices: http://www.q-audio.com/threads.html
   
  There's no additional charge for different colors, but there's generally a 2-3 week lead time in order for Steve to get the custom color braid.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


ultrainferno said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Has anyone tried this: http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37
> I was thinking of getting a Q cable for the LCD-2 and one of these connectors for the HE-500. Good idea?


 

 So you want to get a SMC-to-miniXLR4 adapter from DHC and then get an LCD-2 cable from Q?  That makes sense, as you'll only need to buy one cable.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I've been wondering if these were a solid investment...It seems like an excellent idea, really.
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Has anyone tried this: http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37
> I was thinking of getting a Q cable for the LCD-2 and one of these connectors for the HE-500. Good idea?


 


  I think I'd go with Cardinal or Spruce Green...then again (not to steal sridhar's swag) I really love Purple as well...Then again...that light blue is one of my favorite colors...
   
  I hate having choices. 
   
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Wow, those color options on the Q-cable look great!!


 


  Thank you for linking this as it has officially cemented my purchase of a Q Cable. I love my some color options. You've also reminded me to pick up more adapters than I want planning for. I was just doing 4-Pin and SE, but I now see the use in having a 4-pin to 3 Pin as well.


  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/he-6-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use
> 
> For my pics: http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/he-6-owners-which-aftermarket-cable-do-you-use/15#post_7584131


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


morbidtoaster said:


> I've been wondering if these were a solid investment...It seems like an excellent idea, really.
> 
> I think I'd go with Cardinal or Spruce Green...then again (not to steal sridhar's swag) I really love Purple as well...Then again...that light blue is one of my favorite colors...
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to have been of assistance.  And, sorry for your wallet!


----------



## MorbidToaster

I really think I might have to go with purple...It looks fantastic. I've decided Cardinal would look a bit tacky (IMO). 
   
  So it's between Green and Purple now...That deep green looks more sophisticated but the purple just looks great...
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Glad to have been of assistance.  And, sorry for your wallet!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


morbidtoaster said:


> I really think I might have to go with purple...It looks fantastic. I've decided Cardinal would look a bit tacky (IMO).
> 
> So it's between Green and Purple now...That deep green looks more sophisticated but the purple just looks great...


 

 Hm, purple and green... Barney colors.  I don't think you can get out of this one unscathed.
   
  Anyone remember this?: http://www.head-fi.org/t/524540/yay-i-finished-painting-my-grados-purple-talking-dinosaur-style


----------



## MorbidToaster

Oh god no. I'd pick one or the other. No way I'd want them together in one cable. 
   
  If i could braid 2 together I'd probably forget about being tacky and do a red and orange one.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hm, purple and green... Barney colors.  I don't think you can get out of this one unscathed.
> 
> Anyone remember this?: http://www.head-fi.org/t/524540/yay-i-finished-painting-my-grados-purple-talking-dinosaur-style


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


morbidtoaster said:


> If i could braid 2 together I'd probably forget about being tacky and do a red and orange one.


 
   
  He *can* do a combination.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I got a response already and he said they still have purple in stock so there would be no wait (usually 2-3 weeks for custom colors)...
   
  I hate having to make decisions. 
   
  I could do a Black and Purple combo...and there'd be no delay on shipping...Oh man...
   
  EDIT: Getting a small sample done.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> He *can* do a combination.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MorbidToaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Thank you for linking this as it has officially cemented my purchase of a Q Cable. I love my some color options. You've also reminded me to pick up more adapters than I want planning for. I was just doing 4-Pin and SE, but I now see the use in having a 4-pin to 3 Pin as well.


 
   
   
  Ahh man, it is killing me. I have the Norn, and it does the job perfectly fine, but these color options! Haha! I love having my color options too. As for your dilemma.. green.
   
  I'm gonna have to stay away from this thread


----------



## TigzStudio

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Our color options will be coming, but sticking to browns, black and dark gray.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I think I've actually decided on black and purple braided together.
  
  The green looks fabulous but I love purple as well and it's in stock where as the green would have a long wait time.
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Ahh man, it is killing me. I have the Norn, and it does the job perfectly fine, but these color options! Haha! I love having my color options too. As for your dilemma.. green.
> 
> I'm gonna have to stay away from this thread


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


morbidtoaster said:


> I think I've actually decided on black and purple braided together.
> 
> The green looks fabulous but I love purple as well and it's in stock where as the green would have a long wait time.


 

 If you don't mind, please throw a picture up when you get the sample.  I'd like to see how it looks.  Color me intrigued.


----------



## MorbidToaster

He's sending 2 samples. One is of the cable if each entry cable were one color and met at the split and the other is an example of what it would look like if both colors were used on each entry. 
   
  One is described as colors mixed throughout the braid and the other is described as 2 solid lines meeting and spiraling together.
   
  This is flat out the best customer service I've ever received by the way. Highly recommended and I haven't even bought a cable yet.
   
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> If you don't mind, please throw a picture up when you get the sample.  I'd like to see how it looks.  Color me intrigued.


----------



## Argo Duck

I ordered one of Steve's cables for my LCD2 last week. Had no idea there were all these color options. We are talking about Q-audio right?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Yes. I'm really glad I found out before I ordered.
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I ordered one of Steve's cables for my LCD2 last week. Had no idea there were all these color options. We are talking about Q-audio right?


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks MT.
   
  Now I think about it, it's a good thing I didn't know - Steve would never have got my money with the indecision. It took me weeks to decide among four options


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks MT.
> 
> Now I think about it, it's a good thing I didn't know - Steve would never have got my money with the indecision. It took me weeks to decide among four options


 

  
  Since I couldn't decide the color, I just ordered pink!
   
  (Nah.. it was black, I'm traditional)
   
  Amazing cable


----------



## Argo Duck

Pink?! Just as well my wife didn't hear about that! Actually, she's not allowed to know...
   
  I've been discussing the options with Steve - it wasn't too late and Steve very kindly let me know that. Have to second MorbidT about amazing customer service.
   
  Looking forward to the cable for sure.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Q-cables are 4 wire, right?
  Where as Norse lets you choose 4-6-8
   
  Correct?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Q are 4 wire. Not sure about Norse.
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Q-cables are 4 wire, right?
> Where as Norse lets you choose 4-6-8
> 
> Correct?


----------



## tkteo

What are the possible advantages of a 8-wire configuration?
   
  My Q-Audio cables are the natural cotton and sun yellow colors, btw.


----------



## googleli

Compared with my fully balanced input/output SR71B rig with the ALO SR71B to LCD2 cable, I still prefer using single ended CLAS->SR71A for my LCD2 and LCD3 even with the stock cable. And with the Norse cable it is quite clearly better than the SR71B (CLAS->iBasso DB2->SR71B) . This made me order the new Norse cable again for use with the LCD3.
   
  The latter sounds bright and a bit sibilant to me. Maybe it is the ALO balanced cable and the interconnects (Silver Dragon coaxial and Blue Dragon interconnect between DB2 and SR71B). I don't know.


----------



## maxcat

I got Q-Audio cable last week.The cable sounds excellent.
  Natural is a good color. It's my favorite one.
  Thanks Steve.


----------



## MorbidToaster

In the process of ordering my Purple & Black Q cable. 
   
  Here's a couple of pictures of the sample I decided on.
   

   

   
  It's really hard to tell what it looks like in these (that's why Steve insisted he send me samples instead of pictures). Basically each cup has one color and when they meet it spirals for the rest of the cable. 
   
  I am ordering 3m of it with 4 Pin to 1/4" & 4 Pin to Dual 3 Pin Adapters. I'm excited.
   
  EDIT: I can not stress enough how pleased I am so far with this entire process. Steve is a master of customer service and is easily miles above anyone else I've ever dealt with.


----------



## songmic

I just confirmed with ALO Audio that they are currently developing a 16-wire cable for the LCD-2/3. Here's one of the pictures they sent me.
   
  8 x 22awg copper CDA-101 super annealed in a Teflon jacket
  8 x 24awg silver plated CDA-101 super annealed copper in a Teflon jacket


----------



## MorbidToaster

But will it blend (my wallet)?
  
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> I just confirmed with ALO Audio that they are currently developing a 16-wire cable for the LCD-2/3. Here's one of the pictures they sent me.
> 
> 8 x 22awg copper CDA-101 super annealed in a Teflon jacket
> 8 x 24awg silver plated CDA-101 super annealed copper in a Teflon jacket


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> But will it blend (my wallet)?


 

 Usually ALO products rarely do. Literally a 1/1,000,000,000,000 chance that it will.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> In the process of ordering my Purple & Black Q cable.
> 
> Here's a couple of pictures of the sample I decided on.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, he is..._just don't tell him I said so..._





   
  Those cables look really nice!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MorbidToaster

The other cables they offer sure seem wallet shredding to me... At 16 wires I imagine it will be ridiculous. 
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Usually ALO products rarely do. Literally a 1/1,000,000,000,000 chance that it will.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> The other cables they offer sure seem wallet shredding to me... At 16 wires I imagine it will be ridiculous.


 

 It's probably so ridiculous, once they get in sensible hands like ourselves, i bet the cable just starts to untwist itself.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


songmic said:


> I just confirmed with ALO Audio that they are currently developing a 16-wire cable for the LCD-2/3. Here's one of the pictures they sent me.
> 
> 8 x 22awg copper CDA-101 super annealed in a Teflon jacket
> 8 x 24awg silver plated CDA-101 super annealed copper in a Teflon jacket


 
   
  Just when you think they can't possibly make the ergonomics and price any worse, they go ahead and prove you wrong.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I think it's gorgeous personally but it's just pointless from a practicality standpoint.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Just when you think they can't possibly make the ergonomics and price any worse, they go ahead and prove you wrong.


----------



## drez

IMO I'm keen to hear Peter's flat weave 8 wire seeing as Kimber are supposedly able to achieve such good inductance figures with flat weave on their 8+ wire cables...  But might have to be a DIY job given my current funds.


----------



## googleli

Has anyone compared Norse or Q with ALO chain mail? Would be grateful if you could post some impressions. Thanks.


----------



## Girls Generation

Since it seems you have a lot of resources and you strive for better gear, why don't you try DHC RS Silver cables? OCC solid core rectangular wire.
  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> Has anyone compared Norse or Q with ALO chain mail? Would be grateful if you could post some impressions. Thanks.


----------



## WNBC

I haven't kept with all posts so maybe I missed this particular discussion.  Are the DHC RS Silver Cables now considered the best of the best for the LCD-2/3?  Good looking cable nonetheless.  You are drawing a comparison between better gear and this cable or is it personal preference?
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Since it seems you have a lot of resources and you strive for better gear, why don't you try DHC RS Silver cables? OCC solid core rectangular wire.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I haven't kept with all posts so maybe I missed this particular discussion.  Are the DHC RS Silver Cables now considered the best of the best for the LCD-2/3?  Good looking cable nonetheless.  You are drawing a comparison between better gear and this cable or is it personal preference?


 

 I'd love to hear the DHC RS Silver cables, but I am quite happy with my Moon Audio Silver Dragon (V3) cables with my LCD-3s. Good silver cables seem to really work with Audeze's headphones.


----------



## WNBC

Good to know you like silver cables + DAC-2 + Lyr + LCD-2/3.  We have the same set up except for the LCD-3.  Do you find the silver cables work well with all types of music?  Do you use silver ICs + silver headphone cables or mix it up with copper ICs + silver headphone cables (vice versa too)?
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I'd love to hear the DHC RS Silver cables, but I am quite happy with my Moon Audio Silver Dragon (V3) cables with my LCD-3s. Good silver cables seem to really work with Audeze's headphones.


----------



## scootermafia

I'd really like having a Lyr/Bifrost as a good single ended test rig that could power HE-6s.  I have some HE-500s coming, curiosity got the best of me, although it's unlikely that anything can touch the LCD3s.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Good to know you like silver cables + DAC-2 + Lyr + LCD-2/3.  We have the same set up except for the LCD-3.  Do you find the silver cables work well with all types of music?  Do you use silver ICs + silver headphone cables or mix it up with copper ICs + silver headphone cables (vice versa too)?


 


  I use my Silver Dragon exclusively with my LCD-3s.


----------



## googleli

After hearing the silver copper hybrid cable with the LCD3 yesterday, I am really interested in the ALO 16 wire LCD2 cable now. Actually if I did not read from Head-fi that the 16 wire version is coming out, I would have bought the Reference 8 yesterday already. But given how much they price the Reference 8, I suspect the price of the 16 wire version will come really close to a brand new LCD2...


----------



## MorbidToaster

The HE500 is a fantastic can for that nice new price...
  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I'd really like having a Lyr/Bifrost as a good single ended test rig that could power HE-6s.  I have some HE-500s coming, curiosity got the best of me, although it's unlikely that anything can touch the LCD3s.


 

  
  scootermafia's avatar at work on that 16 wire ALO


  Quote: 





googleli said:


> After hearing the silver copper hybrid cable with the LCD3 yesterday, I am really interested in the ALO 16 wire LCD2 cable now. Actually if I did not read from Head-fi that the 16 wire version is coming out, I would have bought the Reference 8 yesterday already. But given how much they price the Reference 8, I suspect the price of the 16 wire version will come really close to a brand new LCD2...


----------



## songmic

Not quite. According to ALO the price of the16 wire cable will range from $550 to $950 depending on the length and termination. Usually I look for the shortest cable, and as long as you're not using a balanced setup you're off using the 1/4" termination which is usually the cheapest. The 16 wire cable will become available sometime this week, so let's wait and see.
  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> After hearing the silver copper hybrid cable with the LCD3 yesterday, I am really interested in the ALO 16 wire LCD2 cable now. Actually if I did not read from Head-fi that the 16 wire version is coming out, I would have bought the Reference 8 yesterday already. But given how much they price the Reference 8, I suspect the price of the 16 wire version will come really close to a brand new LCD2...


----------



## googleli

Looks like I will be the guinea pig...


----------



## HK_sends

I can't speak to the ALO cable, but I will say that at least for me...
   
  Q-Audio Cable + Schiit Lyr + Audeze LCD-3s FTW! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

  The black Q-Audio cable is an interconnect between my Lyr amp and Cowon J3 Media Player...
   



   
  Cheers!
  -HK sends
   
  PS - Just waiting for the Bifrost now...


----------



## googleli

A Cowon player as source for the Lyr and LCD3???


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





googleli said:


> A Cowon player as source for the Lyr and LCD3???


 
  Playing gapless flac files, yes.  No EQ, just rolled tubes in the Lyr, and I must say it sounds great.  Once the Bifrost arrives, it will be flac files via SPDIF-out from my laptop.
  I want to work towards high end eventually...I just chose to start from the headphone end. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## googleli

Good to hear you are getting the BiFrost.  During my session with LCD3 and many amps, the Vanhalla was a very good amp. Too bad I couldn't demo the Lyr but I'd imagine it would be even better.
   
  Interested to know if anyone has compared LYR and Liquid Fire side by side. How much is the Liquid Fire better than the Lyr? Many thanks.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Somewhat of a cable related question but I recently purchased a Woo stand for my LCD 2. and I'm wondering if someone can shoot my some pictures if you've got these 2 things. I'm slightly concerned about bending the cable at termination. I'm pretty sure the stand is plenty high enough, but I'd like to make sure while I can still cancel the order.


----------



## WNBC

Check out my review of the Apex Butte.  I have a couple shots of the Woo stand.
http://www.head-fi.org/products/apex-hi-fi-butte/reviews/5714
   
  Will post a couple more shots in a minute.....
  
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Somewhat of a cable related question but I recently purchased a Woo stand for my LCD 2. and I'm wondering if someone can shoot my some pictures if you've got these 2 things. I'm slightly concerned about bending the cable at termination. I'm pretty sure the stand is plenty high enough, but I'd like to make sure while I can still cancel the order.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Somewhat of a cable related question but I recently purchased a Woo stand for my LCD 2. and I'm wondering if someone can shoot my some pictures if you've got these 2 things. I'm slightly concerned about bending the cable at termination. I'm pretty sure the stand is plenty high enough, but I'd like to make sure while I can still cancel the order.


 
  I posted this picture a page or so ago.  It shows my LCD-3s on a Woo stand.  It has a height adjustment so you'll have plenty of room for the LCD-2s and the cables (I had my LCD-2s on it before I sold them).  My stand's height is adjusted on the low side in the picture...you can make it taller.
   

   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

Woo-tastic........


----------



## googleli

The LCD2 has the cable out pointed downwards but the LCD3 has a 45-degree tilt which makes the exit pointing slightly forward. To make it suit the Woo Stand, you should replace your LCD2 with an LCD3.


----------



## Hennyo

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Woo-tastic........


 
   
  OMH, yesss. That is very nice!
   
  Noooooowww,?! Nvm, I regress.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Woo-tastic........


 
  Is your stand adjusted as high as it will go?  Mine seems like it can be adjusted higher (I got it to replace a Sieveking Stand because I was worried about the cables being bent too much)...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## DarknightDK

Any comparison between the Q Cable and Norse Norn Series? I'm deciding between them for my Audezes and both look very tempting!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I ordered the Norse for now, hope to get it soon


----------



## MorbidToaster

Thanks for the pics guys. I think it'll be fine if I point them angled out on the Woo stand. Good to know. I got the black one as it seems to match all my gear. I thought I'd have more silver in here, but it doesn't look that way so black it is.


----------



## WNBC

Then I'd have to upgrade the stand too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> The LCD2 has the cable out pointed downwards but the LCD3 has a 45-degree tilt which makes the exit pointing slightly forward. To make it suit the Woo Stand, you should replace your LCD2 with an LCD3.


 
   
  Good point, I'll check tonight.  I set it and forget it back when I got it.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Is your stand adjusted as high as it will go?  Mine seems like it can be adjusted higher (I got it to replace a Sieveking Stand because I was worried about the cables being bent too much)...Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Francoy

Well I went for a Q-cable for my LCD-2s (rev-1s) and I must say that the mentions about the ergonomics by everyone are right on the money!! I mean, I didn’t expect to feel such a weight difference betwixt (is that the right word) it and the stock cable... But man, my neck is used to the weight of the LCD-2s and with the Q-Cable, they feel weightless (ok weightless is exaggerated, but the difference is shocking to me).
   
  Sound wise, I feel it is a bit mellower than the stock cable... But it seems a bit more « effortless » in its presentation (0 burn-in done as of yet).
   
  Oh and I bought it brown to match the wood of the phones (no pink cable for me, no sir) and I am very happy with the result. It has an old school vibe that meshes with the cyberpunk feel of the Audez’e quite nicely for my taste.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





francoy said:


> Oh and I bought it brown to match the wood of the phones (no pink cable for me, no sir) and I am very happy with the result. It has an old school vibe that meshes with the cyberpunk feel of the Audez’e quite nicely for my taste.


 

 Pictures plz!


----------



## MorbidToaster

Mine should be in my mailbox when I get home soon. You'll be getting my pics soon. 
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Pictures plz!


----------



## Stevtt

Just ordered the Q cable myself a few minutes ago.
   
  For me the deciding factor was the takeoff on Monty Pythons Spanish Inqusition.
   
  Man's gotta have SOME standards.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Received my Q cable today. All I can really say is it's fantastic. 
   


   
  3 Meter Cable + the 2 adapters. Can't comment on sound changes as I've just gotten home from a 12 hour shift and don't care to do much else but listen a bit and sleep. 
   
  Some of you may be sick of me saying it, but Steve offered the best customer service I've ever had and now that I got my cable and am enjoying the quality I'll be going back to him (most likely for speaker cables) soon. Can't recommend him enough.


----------



## googleli

I got my Norse new version cable yesterday and I think Trevor provides excellent customer service as well. Too bad I won't get the chance to try the Q, as my next target will be the ALO Reference 16. But so far from less than a day's burn in, I already feel that the new Norse is very natural and is more able than the previous cable to reveal the tonality of the tubes on my Leben on the LCD3. If you want to bring out the very best of the LCD3 from a good amp, I think you just can't go wrong with the Norse new cable. It lets you hear how your front end (source , amp) really sounds like. From my experience with the ALO it brings out more treble, but in terms of natrualness, the new Norse cable is, I suspect, second to none. And the cable weighs much much lighter - now the LCD becomes more comfortable than ever (although still not as comfortable as the ED10 or SR009). Congratulations on your accomplishment, Trevor. I suggest everyone who likes the Q (which from the impressions are also very light and sound good as well) or those who are going to order the Q, to look into the new Norse cable as well.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Some of you may be sick of me saying it, but Steve offered the best customer service I've ever had and now that I got my cable and am enjoying the quality I'll be going back to him (most likely for speaker cables) soon. Can't recommend him enough.


 


  I also ordered a Q cable + 2 adapters from Steve, and indeed, his service is amazing. He is very kind, funny, and proactive guy. The cables are leather-like and sounds great.
   
  From all I have read here, all custom cable makers are really nice guys, that's great


----------



## MorbidToaster

Gotta say that I kind of like the mini XLR termination + adapters. Good idea. Happy to see others taking full advantage of the adapter options.
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I also ordered a Q cable + 2 adapters from Steve, and indeed, his service is amazing.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Maybe if we could all get that deal so awesome you can't talk about it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> I got my Norse new version cable yesterday and I think Trevor provides excellent customer service as well. Too bad I won't get the chance to try the Q, as my next target will be the ALO Reference 16. But so far from less than a day's burn in, I already feel that the new Norse is very natural and is more able than the previous cable to reveal the tonality of the tubes on my Leben on the LCD3. If you want to bring out the very best of the LCD3 from a good amp, I think you just can't go wrong with the Norse new cable. It lets you hear how your front end (source , amp) really sounds like. From my experience with the ALO it brings out more treble, but in terms of natrualness, the new Norse cable is, I suspect, second to none. And the cable weighs much much lighter - now the LCD becomes more comfortable than ever (although still not as comfortable as the ED10 or SR009). Congratulations on your accomplishment, Trevor.* I suggest everyone who likes the Q (which from the impressions are also very light and sound good as well) or those who are going to order the Q, to look into the new Norse cable as well.*


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Received my Q cable today. All I can really say is it's fantastic.


 
   
  Forgot to say:
   
  I tought purple + black would be quite weird, but... looks cool! Funnier than only black 
   
  Thanks for the pics!


----------



## MorbidToaster

I was really happy after I received my samples. The purple is dark enough to not stand out too much against the black. They really go well together.
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Forgot to say:
> 
> I tought purple + black would be quite weird, but... looks cool! Funnier than only black
> 
> Thanks for the pics!


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





googleli said:


> I got my Norse new version cable yesterday and I think Trevor provides excellent customer service as well. Too bad I won't get the chance to try the Q, as my next target will be the ALO Reference 16. But so far from less than a day's burn in, I already feel that the new Norse is very natural and is more able than the previous cable to reveal the tonality of the tubes on my Leben on the LCD3. If you want to bring out the very best of the LCD3 from a good amp, I think you just can't go wrong with the Norse new cable. It lets you hear how your front end (source , amp) really sounds like. From my experience with the ALO it brings out more treble, but in terms of natrualness, the new Norse cable is, I suspect, second to none. And the cable weighs much much lighter - now the LCD becomes more comfortable than ever (although still not as comfortable as the ED10 or SR009). Congratulations on your accomplishment, Trevor. I suggest everyone who likes the Q (which from the impressions are also very light and sound good as well) or those who are going to order the Q, to look into the new Norse cable as well.


 


  Did you get the Norse 8 wire cables? How are the Norse cables in terms of dynamism, transparency and bass?


----------



## googleli

I had the Norse 8 wire, but this time I ordered the new 6-wire for increased comfort. Both are very natural sounding but the latter is even one more step up from the already impressive previous Norse 8 wire cable.
  
  Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> Did you get the Norse 8 wire cables? How are the Norse cables in terms of dynamism, transparency and bass?


----------



## Argo Duck

Congratulations Morbid. I'm expecting mine soon from Steve. Similar to yours - which look great btw - but golden yellow substituted for purple.
   
  At least I think that's what I finally settled on! Kept changing my mind and Steve was fantastic (and a true wit) throughout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  A real class act. It's great to have Steve and the others so available on head-fi.


----------



## TigzStudio

It was a limited promotion.  A fair amount of people got it actually. 
  
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Maybe if we could all get that deal so awesome you can't talk about it...


----------



## googleli

Not that I am trying to exaggerate, but I think the new Norse cable has come to a level that the stock cable is no longer listenable to. The deal was just letting me try the 4 wire as well with my systems, and to be frank, both 6 wire and 4 wire are very impressive. Once I get my ALO Reference 16, I will compare it with the new Norse 6 cable.


----------



## Ultrainferno

My recently bought cable seems to be stuck in SF since thursday. Doesn't anyone work in the USA on Thanksgiving?


----------



## MorbidToaster

No. They don't. Mine was delayed and hadn't been updated for about 4 days. Steve actually contacted me worried that it was lost and offered to send out a completely new cable if it didn't reach me over the weekend. 
   
  I told him to calm down and it came in the next day. Haha. 
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> My recently bought cable seems to be stuck in SF since thursday. Doesn't anyone work in the USA on Thanksgiving?


 


  It was more of a joke. The secrecy was just funny to me (not in a unfair way, just funny).
   
  Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> It was a limited promotion.  A fair amount of people got it actually.


----------



## googleli

Secrecy / unfair or not, I don't think it affects my opinion that the Norse new cable does sound really good - honestly speaking I don't think the "deal" he gave me or any others is serious enough to affect one's opinion - it is not like he is giving out a pair of LCD3 as a deal to buying his cable. And of course, the Norse is actually cheaper than the Q without counting in any secret or unfair deal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you enjoy your Q that is great but there is no point attacking a cable you don't own because you don't get the deal. Or maybe if you ask nicely, you will get it as well.


----------



## MorbidToaster

It was a joke. It wasn't an attack. Guess I should've used a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 instead of a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> Secrecy / unfair or not, I don't think it affects my opinion that the Norse new cable does sound really good - honestly speaking I don't think the "deal" he gave me or any others is serious enough to affect one's opinion - it is not like he is giving out a pair of LCD3 as a deal to buying his cable. And of course, the Norse is actually cheaper than the Q without counting in any secret or unfair deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Francoy

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Pictures plz!


 

 Here you go (sorry for the quality - taken with my phone).


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





francoy said:


> (sorry for the quality - taken with my phone).


 
   
  Sorry? I would have never guessed those were taken with a phone. Who makes your phone? Canon? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## WNBC

To think that 10 years ago we as grown men might have laughed at the idea of using emoticons and look at us now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I would love to have both cables, Norse and Q, but I only have one pair of headphones, one head, and one pair of ears on most days.  I guess I would need multiple rigs with multiple headphones to get to try the Q, though I am really interested in hearing opinions of their interconnects but that's for a different forum I suppose.  
  
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> It was a joke. It wasn't an attack. Guess I should've used a
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MorbidToaster

It really changes the mood of the post though, doesn't it? I still see them as important because they are what you have to use to convey sarcasm, jokes, etc. 
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> To think that 10 years ago we as grown men might have laughed at the idea of using emoticons and look at us now


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> To think that 10 years ago we as grown men might have laughed at the idea of using emoticons and look at us now


 
   
  Tell me about it!
   
  I've been communicating online for over 25 years and back in the day, I thought just the regular ol' keyboard smileys were just too sickeningly "cutesy" for any REAL man to use. But it wasn't long before I was using them too. Then I thought the same thing when GUI-based forums came along with their beyond sickeningly cutesy graphical smileys. But now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Communist plot to use smileys to completely eviscerate American manhood and turn us all into a bunch of giggling schoolgirls has been a complete success. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Pudu

Suit up boyos.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Suit up boyos.


 

 BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA! PERFECT!
   
  se


----------



## Francoy

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Sorry? I would have never guessed those were taken with a phone. Who makes your phone? Canon?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 iPhone... My « real » camera is a Canon though.
  (thanks for the cable by-the-way)
   
  And regarding the uber-cutteness of the emoticons nowadays... As a guy with an emoticon as a user picture, maybe I would need to look it up with my therapist now that you guys talk about it


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Since it seems you have a lot of resources and you strive for better gear, why don't you try DHC RS Silver cables? OCC solid core rectangular wire.


 

 And you recommend this cable after trying it yourself then? From my understanding solid core cables are prone to break and a solid core rectangular wire even more so.
  I currently use a silver plated copper cable i managed to put together but cannot hear any difference over the stock so am in the market for a new cable.


----------



## Zeddley

My favourite out of norse, Q and silver dragon v3 would easily be the silver dragon v3, although I personally own the v3 and only auditioned the others. That aside, my friend also preferred the v3 over his own cables.


----------



## Hennyo

^^
   
  I've heard LCD2 rev 1 and 2 with ALO Chainmail, DHC, APureSound Voice, and Silver Dragon V3 cables...
   
  Chainmail = makes the lcd-2 sound weird.
  DHC copper makes the lcd sound dark. (but this was rev 1) Although it looks very nice!
  Apuresound Silver Voice was: Insert angelic image here. (Although it's like $500)... In other words, stupidly expensive (to me).
  Silver Dragon v3. Just what the doctor ordered for lcd2. MOAR speeds and tightens the bass it has. And the midrage/treble... Oh, the midrange and treble!
   
  By nature, I am detail freak. I like all the details and a neutral curve to enjoy the music as the artist/producer intended it.


----------



## Randall DZM

Yeah, the DHC is definitely very beautifully made and makes it very dark. Gah Hennyo you make me want to get the Silver Voice or Silver Dragon v3.


----------



## Hennyo

Quote: 





randall dzm said:


> Yeah, the DHC is definitely very beautifully made and makes it very dark. Gah Hennyo you make me want to get the Silver Voice or Silver Dragon v3.


 

 Hey, this guy's fast ^^. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Somebody doesn't skip a beat.


----------



## googleli

My ALO Reference 16 cable for the LCD3 will arrive on Monday with the Cavalli Liquid Fire. Will compare it with the Norse litz cable then.


----------



## ianmedium

I am trying a new company to me on the recommendation of some friends. My first aftermarket headphone cable. It is balanced for my SR71B and is 99% silver strand 1%gold.

I have very much enjoyed what silver has done for the sound of my set up with my interconnects and the first decent LOD I had was a quables silver/gold mix and I enjoyed what that did for the sound of my set up. Should be here in a week or so. Will report my findings when it gets here!


----------



## drez

I am tempted to DIY a Silver Dragon V3 - I had a very brief demo and it sounds very refined.


----------



## Hennyo

Didn't you not believe in cables?! ^ Welcome to the crew that sounds better! =D


----------



## googleli

With low end gear, cables don't matter that much. The higher end your gear is, the more cables matter.


----------



## Hennyo

Googleli, what with you endorsing *LCD3*, I never thought we'd agree on anything.. Right now I'm corrected ^_^!


----------



## googleli

I don't "endorse" the LCD3, I just feel that it is right for me, that's all. Again, you need good gear (source + amp) and cables to bring the best out of it. Previous gear suitable for LCD2 may no longer suffice (that's why I am upgrading my whole office rig).
   
  I can see that the Rev 2 or the HE6 may be suitable for most of the people out there, but for me, I simply want the best of both worlds, rather than having one phone which is "in between" the LCD3 and 009.
   
  I have the Norse Litz cable and am very happy with it so far. Very natural sound, and the weight is next to nothing. The only reason I am ordering the Reference 16 cable is that I heard the Reference 8 Silver/Copper at the Hong Kong distributor and thought it did bring out the trebles in the LCD3. Will report back once the cable arrives (with the Liquid Fire).
  
  Quote: 





hennyo said:


> Googleli, what with you endorsing *LCD3*, I never thought we'd agree on anything.. Right now I'm corrected ^_^!


----------



## songmic

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *googleli* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have the Norse Litz cable and am very happy with it so far. Very natural sound, and the weight is next to nothing. The only reason I am ordering the Reference 16 cable is that I heard the Reference 8 Silver/Copper at the Hong Kong distributor and thought it did bring out the trebles in the LCD3. Will report back once the cable arrives (with the Liquid Fire).


 

 I'm looking forward to your review and comparison. I own an LCD-2 Revision 2, and I'm torn between ALO Reference 16, Norse Litz, and Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3. But I don't know which cable will LCD-2/3 benefit most out of: a copper cable, a silver cable, or a mix of copper and silver?


----------



## krod3003

x2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> I'm looking forward to your review and comparison. I own an LCD-2 Revision 2, and I'm torn between ALO Reference 16, Norse Litz, and Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3. But I don't know which cable will LCD-2/3 benefit most out of: a copper cable, a silver cable, or a mix of copper and silver?


----------



## drez

Quote: 





songmic said:


> I'm looking forward to your review and comparison. I own an LCD-2 Revision 2, and I'm torn between ALO Reference 16, Norse Litz, and Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3. But I don't know which cable will LCD-2/3 benefit most out of: a copper cable, a silver cable, or a mix of copper and silver?


 


  Well if it makes life easier, you could buy the Ref 16, or instead buy the Silver dragon *AND* the Norse Audio Norn *AND* an ice cream


----------



## Hennyo

^^ LOL, Amen.


----------



## scootermafia

I think the world's ready to go 32-wire.


----------



## googleli

Someone get two Reference-16s then combine them maybe - if they can still fit into the plug...
   
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I think the world's ready to go 32-wire.


----------



## IPodPJ

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I think the world's ready to go 32-wire.


 


  No, I think 64.  That would be so much better.  Maybe I'll make a 5 lb. headphone cable to add to my lineup.  Or we could just make a neck brace for your amplifier.
   
  <sarcasm>


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> No, I think 64.  That would be so much better.


 

 Well, if it's just about the number of wires, I'll see your 64 and raise you 596. *puts on poker face*
   




   
  se


----------



## Stevtt

Just don't experiment with my cable.
   
  I'd have to  hire 3 Sherpa's to carry it


----------



## googleli

I do hope I can meet up with Jian so that we can compare the Reference 8 with the Reference 16... After I have properly burnt in the cable.


----------



## googleli

Anyone out there tried out LCD2 pads on LCD3 yet?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





stevtt said:


> Just don't experiment with my cable.
> 
> I'd have to  hire 3 Sherpa's to carry it


 

 And it's precisely that selfish attitude that unemployment is so high among Sherpas. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Pudu

steve eddy said:


> And it's precisely that selfish attitude that unemployment is so high among Sherpas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




There is tons of work in the form of tons and tons ... and tons of rubbish left strewn across Everest by all the intrepid mountaineers which needs to be removed. 

Now if we could just figure out who should be paying the sherpas to haul empty oxygen containers and powerbar wrappers, oh and the odd body part ...


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Well, if it's just about the number of wires, I'll see your 64 and raise you 596. *puts on poker face*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm in.   *Lays down pics*


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I'm in.   *Lays down pics*


 

 No no, you're supposed to call before you lay down your hand!
   
  Mods! Get this amateur out of the game! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Actually them's quite purdee. I think this one's my favorite though. 
   

   
  se


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> No no, you're supposed to call before you lay down your hand!
> 
> *Mods! Get this amateur out of the game! *
> 
> ...


 

 *hangs head in shame, leaves table*
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's why it's call Texas Hold'em and not London Hold'em.
   
  Steve, have you ever taken any macro shots of your cables?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mrq said:


> *hangs head in shame, leaves table*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





   
   
  Quote: 





> Steve, have you ever taken any macro shots of your cables?


 
   
  Nope. Been thinking about it. Just haven't got 'round to it.
   
  se


----------



## smithemma

Quote: 





wulvy said:


> Thanks for all the input from everyone I appreciate it.
> 
> I ended up going with the Norse Audio cable... OCC like ALO and awesome aesthetics. Cheap price too.


 


  Wulvy, let me know your experience on that! I kinda have interest too...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





pudu said:


> There is tons of work in the form of tons and tons ... and tons of rubbish left strewn across Everest by all the intrepid mountaineers which needs to be removed.
> Now if we could just figure out who should be paying the sherpas to haul empty oxygen containers and powerbar wrappers, oh and the odd body part ...


 

 HA!
   
  Yeah, that is pretty sad. Should charge the climbers a cleaning deposit.
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Nope. Been thinking about it. Just haven't got 'round to it.
> 
> se


 
  Well, now you have one...where's the pics?
   

   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Well, now you have one...where's the pics?


 

 My grandfather always used to say to me "Don't take any wooden round tuits" and that sure looks like a wooden round tuit to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> My grandfather always used to say to me "Don't take any wooden round tuits" and that sure looks like a wooden round tuit to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  This one isn't...
   
http://www.passco.com/tuit.htm
   
  I guess I'll just have to send you this for Christmas: http://www.quantumenterprises.co.uk/the-39-original-39-round-tuit/-39-original-39-round-tuits/-39-original-39-round-tuit-100-brass-medallion-in-presentation-case/prod_105.html
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Stevtt

That is so cool!


----------



## MrQ

This may seem like a dumb question, but please, bear with me.
  I own a LCD-2 r1 bought from ALO with the ref 8 silver/copper cable.  Now we have the ref 16. What's the point? Will more wires make a difference? If it weighs more than the ref 8, that's not really a good idea with the LCDx.


----------



## KimbaWLion

I am getting a Pair of LCD2 v1s from a fellow Head-fier! I already emailed to see the cost to upgrade to the V2.
  From what I have read here the Norse cable AND Q Cable are BOTH Litz cables right? 
  Also I reading here about going Silver... I am THOROUGHLY confused. There is a Q cable AND a Norse both for sale
  and was going to maybe get one of them, or a person on ebay is making silver plated cables ( sigma acustics, at a good price)
  ALO is out of the question because I will can not spend that much and I am not sure I want too. It may be fantastic cable
  but there are options in the price line I can pay! ( good thing I have not heard one and REALLY liked it! 
   
  I am aware that cables are not the be all end all but I do not mind spending a little bit to gain something.
  I am also HARDLY an expert here. I do know when I changed my cable to to my HD 600 and added the Furutech 1/4"
  it sounded different in a way a I liked. That was enough to prove to me that cables make SOME sort of difference...
   
  I am SO thoroughly confused after reading a LOT of this... Comes from being an engineer, we SO like Black and White!


----------



## googleli

Congratulations.Welcome to the Head Fi world.


----------



## WNBC

Last I heard there was no way to upgrade from rev1 to rev2 drivers.
  I would hold off on the Sigma Acoustics unless you can find reviews from people you trust.
  Norse and Q are Litz cables, whether or not they use the same configuration I couldn't tell you (possibly discussed elsewhere).
  Lots of opinions here from people that own Q and Norse, I don't think you could wrong with either one.  
   
  Quote: 





kimbawlion said:


> I am getting a Pair of LCD2 v1s from a fellow Head-fier! I already emailed to see the cost to upgrade to the V2.
> From what I have read here the Norse cable AND Q Cable are BOTH Litz cables right?
> Also I reading here about going Silver... I am THOROUGHLY confused. There is a Q cable AND a Norse both for sale
> and was going to maybe get one of them, or a person on ebay is making silver plated cables ( sigma acustics, at a good price)
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

There isn't any way to upgrade from the v1 to the v2 unless you sell the v1 and use the proceeds to offset the cost of the v2.  You won't be able to revert either unless you sell the v2s for a v1.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





wulvy said:


> Thanks for all the input from everyone I appreciate it.
> 
> I ended up going with the Norse Audio cable... OCC like ALO and awesome aesthetics. Cheap price too.


 


  ALO doesn't use OCC anymore.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


mrq said:


> What's the point?


 
   
  If you string it up between two trees, it's a makeshift hammock.  Probably not too comfortable though.
   
  Although, Jena Labs might take the cake with this one:
 
  They start at *only* $11,000.  Total steal.


----------



## scootermafia

I really want see if I can braid anything into a 25-wire braid like that.  These super-LCD2-cables have nothing on the Jena Awakenings' wire count.  That thing is as wide as a necktie.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> If you string it up between two trees, it's a makeshift hammock.  Probably not too comfortable though.
> 
> ...


 

 $11,000  Jesus wept.


----------



## treal512

I'm holding out for the 52 wire model.


----------



## Currawong

It's not even physically possible to attach that many wires (or that much wire, stripped) to the solder points on the plugs, which makes it all the more crazy.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





currawong said:


> It's not even physically possible to attach that many wires (or that much wire, stripped) to the solder points on the plugs, which makes it all the more crazy.


 

 And at $11,000, who's gonna crack one open to see what's really going on under the hood? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'll take some pictures tomorrow after I (hopefully) replace the black felt in my LCD 2 with Purple felt...Thus completing my 'Purple People Eater' headphones (as Steve so lovingly called them in one of our conversations).


----------



## krod3003

Just got the Norse 4 wire cable. I shall hear how it sounds soon enough...


----------



## Amuro_Rey

I just take a LCD-2 rev.1 and I have tried with my Burson Ha-160
  I found the sound a little to "dark" so do you think that a new cable can change the saound to a little more high and detailed ?
  If yes what cable will be the right one ?
   
  Thanks to all
   
  Luca


----------



## MorbidToaster

Something silver, me thinks.
  
  Quote: 





amuro_rey said:


> I just take a LCD-2 rev.1 and I have tried with my Burson Ha-160
> I found the sound a little to "dark" so do you think that a new cable can change the saound to a little more high and detailed ?
> If yes what cable will be the right one ?
> 
> ...


----------



## ianmedium

morbidtoaster said:


> Something silver, me thinks.




I was going to say the same thing. My silver with 1% gold cable should be here this week according to tracking so I will let you all know!


----------



## MorbidToaster

As promised...the Purple People Eater! (Told you I'd do it, Steve)


----------



## ianmedium

morbidtoaster said:


> As promised...the Purple People Eater! (Told you I'd do it, Steve)




Oh my eyes :blink: I was listening to Janis Joplins last album Pearl last night, this colour combo would have been perfect for the psychedelic experience! 

Challenge! How about leopard print!


----------



## googleli

Dude...


----------



## MorbidToaster

I totally want to rock some Prince in them right now after thinking about it. 
   
  Totally listened to 'Purple Haze' first though...
   
  The purple looks a lot brighter when the flash hits it. It's nice and dark when it's not under direct intense light like that. Much more subtle.
  
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I can't tell how you feel about it over the internet. lol


  Quote: 





googleli said:


> Dude...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Once I get an LCD-2 (and I know I will), I'll be getting a Q-Audio cable, which is what I am using right now for the HE-series.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> As promised...the Purple People Eater! (Told you I'd do it, Steve)


 
   
  HA! You did indeed, MT, you did indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (not frowning, just HAD to use a purple smiley). 
   
  se


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> HA! You did indeed, MT, you did indeed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Steve. I have a few high end HiFiMan headphones coming in the next week. I'll update you constantly on that review. Thanks very much for the patience!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Steve. I have a few high end HiFiMan headphones coming in the next week. I'll update you constantly on that review. Thanks very much for the patience!


 

 Not a problem, Austin. Thanks!
   
  se


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Not a problem, Austin. Thanks!
> 
> se


 

 Thanks!


----------



## drez

Quote: 





amuro_rey said:


> I just take a LCD-2 rev.1 and I have tried with my Burson Ha-160
> I found the sound a little to "dark" so do you think that a new cable can change the saound to a little more high and detailed ?
> If yes what cable will be the right one ?
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe Silver Dragon or new Norse Audio Norn - but I only own the latter which definitely brings out the treble and detail, but that is just my experience (but have had a brief audition with the former).  In theory a Litz cable should reduce skin effect  which may attenuate treble on the stock cable.  Silver being brighter is a bit less reliable.


----------



## googleli

The Norse Litz cable is really good - very natural feeling but with obviously more details. I am now burning in my ALO Reference 16 cable and will compare it with the Litz once I have a chance to.


----------



## Amuro_Rey

Thanks to all !


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





googleli said:


> The Norse Litz cable is really good - very natural feeling but with obviously more details.


 


  Has anyone tried the Norse Litz with Hifiman's HE-500? Sry for the small thread hijack


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





googleli said:


> The Norse Litz cable is really good - very natural feeling but with obviously more details. I am now burning in my ALO Reference 16 cable and will compare it with the Litz once I have a chance to.


 


  This is the comparison / review I'm really looking forward too. Please post your impressions once you have thoroughly reviewed them.


----------



## dyl1dyl

I'd go for the Twag Solid core silver for the LCD-2s if you do not need flexibility.


----------



## scootermafia

TWAg is very flexible and is stranded, not solid core.  I think you're getting it mixed up with SCSCag, which is Craig's solid core silver - but I'm not aware of any LCD2 cables he makes with it, other than those on a very custom basis.


----------



## Austin Morrow

The moreI look at this Norse Audio cable, the more I love the look of it. It looks so classy and seems to match the LCD-2's nicely. Question is though, is it a silver or copper cable?


----------



## krod3003

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> The moreI look at this Norse Audio cable, the more I love the look of it. It looks so classy and seems to match the LCD-2's nicely. Question is though, is it a silver or copper cable?


 

 I know right! That is the reason I bought it... well that and it's good reviews. BTW Trevor is so easy to work with, just sent him a request, he sent an invoice, I pay, he confirms payment and done. So easy and I should have the cable by tomorrow or wednesday. If you can wait I will have an early assesment of the cable and if I feel it improves anything.


----------



## scootermafia

It's litz OCC copper in cotton.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> It's litz OCC copper in cotton.


 


  Hmm. Copper? I'll take silver instead.


----------



## ianmedium

Just checked Canada post tracking and my cable has cleared customs and is with Canada post!
Hopefully Tuesday but at the latest Wednesday it will be with me! My first aftermarket and high end cable for headphones. I am really looking forward to what it brings to the musical enjoyment. I asked them to make a balanced to 3.5mm adaptor cable so I can give a fair opinion of the differences in single ended as well as balanced versus single ended.


----------



## googleli

The cotton coat of the the Norse Litz cable gives us special feelings. These cotton cables can only be found in National rice cookers a decade or two ago (power cords). So I am sure the Norse Litz cable has some kind of synergy. I note that someone is using National tubes for the Liquid Fire. I am sure thare will be some kind of synergy.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





googleli said:


> These cotton cables can only be found in National rice cookers a decade or two ago (power cords).


 
   
  Go over to eBay and do a search on "vintage power cords." Lots o' cool stuff there.
   
  se


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





googleli said:


> The cotton coat of the the Norse Litz cable gives us special feelings. These cotton cables can only be found in National rice cookers a decade or two ago (power cords). So I am sure the Norse Litz cable has some kind of synergy. I note that someone is using National tubes for the Liquid Fire. I am sure thare will be some kind of synergy.


 

 When I was a child, a great many power cords in my house were cotton-covered. You can still buy brand-new cotton-covered kettle cables identical to the ones made decades ago (though the plastic may have improved, I don't know).


----------



## ianmedium

currawong said:


> When I was a child, a great many power cords in my house were cotton-covered. You can still buy brand-new cotton-covered kettle cables identical to the ones made decades ago (though the plastic may have improved, I don't know).




Same here, everything that had a power cord had the cord sheathed in cotton when I was younger growing up in the UK


----------



## MorbidToaster

This reminds me...I need to order some new power cables...


----------



## ianmedium

morbidtoaster said:


> This reminds me...I need to order some new power cables...




Sometimes I feel we have all been taken over by some evil Dr on this forum, his powers controlling our minds by subliminal thought waves emanating out of the computer screens saying buy buy buy *buy* !


----------



## MorbidToaster

With that kind of logic TVs are controlled by evil doctors, too...wouldn't be surprised.
   
  I'm not buying expensive power cords though. Just some nice low noise medical grade ones.
   
  Quote:


ianmedium said:


> Sometimes I feel we have all been taken over by some evil Dr on this forum, his powers controlling our minds by subliminal thought waves emanating out of the computer screens saying buy buy buy *buy* !


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Go over to eBay and do a search on "vintage power cords." Lots o' cool stuff there.
> 
> se


 


  Oh, wow, those look pretty cool. Quite thick as well.


----------



## sridhar3

http://www.bestmadeco.com/collections/frontpage/products/cloth-extension-cord


----------



## ianmedium

Cable has arrived! Will report back after a few hours on it!


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Cable has arrived! Will report back after a few hours on it!


 


  go to aurdio nirvana


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> As promised...the Purple People Eater! (Told you I'd do it, Steve)


 
  What did you do to get the inside of the LCD-2 purple?


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What did you do to get the inside of the LCD-2 purple?


 

  
  Open the grill and replace the black felt with purple ones.


----------



## treal512




----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





waazup said:


> Open the grill and replace the black felt with purple ones.


 


  Did the new felt change the sonic signature?   the LCD's are so funky that even a 2 ply piece of toilet tissue can change the sonics as we have discovered from the LCD-3 mod that is all the craze now.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> This reminds me...I need to order some new power cables...


 


  Try the Shunyata Venom 3 power cord it might go with your color scheme!


----------



## drez

Quote: 





waazup said:


> Open the grill and replace the black felt with purple ones.


 

 How to avoid chipping paint on the screws?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





drez said:


> How to avoid chipping paint on the screws?


 
  Just be careful.  They aren't screwed in that tight.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Did the new felt change the sonic signature?   the LCD's are so funky that even a 2 ply piece of toilet tissue can change the sonics as we have discovered from the LCD-3 mod that is all the craze now.


 


 Would not know.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





waazup said:


> Would not know.


 

 You know about the LCD-3 Toilet Tissue mod right?
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/581132/lcd3-kirkland-bath-tissue-edition-a-k-a-toiletpants


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You know about the LCD-3 Toilet Tissue mod right?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/581132/lcd3-kirkland-bath-tissue-edition-a-k-a-toiletpants


 


 No, never seen that before but will have a look now, thanks.


----------



## MorbidToaster

To my ears it changed very slightly. The purple felt was a tiny bit thicker than the regular black felt. I imagine it does the same thing to the LCD 2 as it did to the 3. It's very subtle though so I think it may be somewhere in between the TP mod for the LCD 3. 
   
  Whatever it is, I still love the sound so I'm okay with it.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Did the new felt change the sonic signature?   the LCD's are so funky that even a 2 ply piece of toilet tissue can change the sonics as we have discovered from the LCD-3 mod that is all the craze now.


----------



## Stevtt

Ok, let me get this straight. Modding the LCD-3 so it sounds like an LCD-2?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Moddding it to get the best of both worlds.
  
  Quote: 





stevtt said:


> Ok, let me get this straight. Modding the LCD-3 so it sounds like an LCD-2?


----------



## Icenine2

I didn't know this thread was here.  Excellent.
   
  I'm thinking of getting the Moon Silver Dragon's for my LCD2.2's.  Without having to scan the whole thread what are the top three choices of late?  Thanks!


----------



## googleli

The Norse and the Q are certainly in there, it seems. After burn in of my ALO 16 wire silver copper cable I will compare it with the Norse latest cable.


----------



## ianmedium

Will post a picture of my new Cable and initial thoughts this afternoon after seeing clients. I will say though that silver and gold and a Blackbird are a wonderful combination in both single ended and balanced mode and also in comparison to stock and a loaned TWag V2 cable.


----------



## Stevtt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Moddding it to get the best of both worlds.


 


   
  Ah, ok. I can understand that


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Moddding it to get the best of both worlds.


 


  Maybe I'm off my meds again, or my dosage isn't high enough, but when I read the LCD-3 mod thread to get them to perform better I'm thinking a two thousand dollar headphone should already be the best of the best of all worlds.  I'll be reviewing a 3 this week so I'll know soon enough.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





icenine2 said:


> I didn't know this thread was here.  Excellent.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the Moon Silver Dragon's for my LCD2.2's.  Without having to scan the whole thread what are the top three choices of late?  Thanks!


 


  I use the Q cable and really like the clarity it brings to the table. I'll PM you my impression of the Q which I posted many pages back.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I think most people can agree there but plenty seem to like it stock as well.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Maybe I'm off my meds again, or my dosage isn't high enough, but when I read the LCD-3 mod thread to get them to perform betterm thinking a two thousand dollar headphone should already be the best of the best of all worlds.  I'll be reviewing a 3 this week so I'll know soon enough.


 


  Anither Q vote from me. Tons of color options and the best customer service out there from Steve. I love mine.

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I use the Q cable and really like the clarity it brings to the table. I'll PM you my impression of the Q which I posted many pages back.


----------



## Icenine2

Jazzy baby!!  Really cool looking!
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> As promised...the Purple People Eater! (Told you I'd do it, Steve)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Anither Q vote from me. Tons of color options and the best customer service out there from Steve. I love mine.


 
  Steve who?  I got mine from a guy named Q.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Like...James Bond's Q?
   
  SF 3 Q?
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Steve who?  I got mine from a guy named Q.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Like...James Bond's Q?
> 
> SF 3 Q?


 


  I don't know. We made the exchange in a dark rainy alley at midnight and I couldn't make out his face.  There was a burning emblem on the alley wall.  It all happened very quickly...


----------



## WNBC

Drop the squigley line and the Q becomes an outline for an eye.  I always suspected Steve was a front for Sauron's hi-fi cables.  That explains the out-of-body experience one gets from his cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I don't know. We made the exchange in a dark rainy alley at midnight and I couldn't make out his face.  There was a burning emblem on the alley wall.  It all happened very quickly...


----------



## Stevtt

Waiting in my Q to get here. WA definitely interested in your review of the LCD-3


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


wnbc said:


>


----------



## TigzStudio

Look what I found....
   

   
_couldn't resist, lotr fan. _
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Drop the squigley line and the Q becomes an outline for an eye.  I always suspected Steve was a front for Sauron's hi-fi cables.  That explains the out-of-body experience one gets from his cables


----------



## WNBC

Awesome, Bill Cosby.  Have the series locked in on my Netflix.  Brings back good memories.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:


 

  
  SkyMall had a Black Friday sale.  I should have picked one up for bad luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Look what I found....
> 
> 
> 
> _couldn't resist, lotr fan. _


----------



## obazavil

Q?
   
  You mean this guy?
   

   
   
  Quote: 





> Q: Qoilà! In qiew, a humble qaudevillian qeteran, cast qicariously as both qictim and qillian by the qicissitudes of Fate. This qisage, no mere qeneer of qanity, is a qestige of the qox populi, now qacant, qanished. However, this qalorous qisitation of a by-gone qexation, stands qivified and has qowed to qanquish these qenal and qirulent qermin qanguarding qice and qouchsafing the qiolently qicious and qoracious qiolation of qolition. (he carves a "Q" into a sign) The only qerdict is qengence; a qendetta, held as a qotive, not in qain, for the qalue and qeracity of such shall one day qindicate the qigilant and the qirtuous. (giggles) Qerily, this qichyssoise of qerbiage qeers most qerbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me Q.
> Evey: Are you like a crazy person?
> Q: I'm quite sure they will say so.


----------



## WNBC

No, no, this Q
   

  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Q?
> 
> You mean this guy?


----------



## Ultrainferno

^ ^ LOL


----------



## MrQ

My Querimony is that all I see are a Quarrelsome Quantity of Quaint Quacks, that have left me Qualmish. I have Quizzed and Questioned the attempts at Quickwittedness and come to the conclusion that you should all Quit your Quibbling and Quite down.
   
  Quadrophenicly
   
  Q


----------



## WarriorAnt

Personally I prefer Maggie Q.  Black cotton is fine with me.


----------



## HK_sends

x2!!!  Ok, now you definitely have my undivided attention!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

With all the Q's we now have a Quality Quorum to discuss all things Q and Q-like.   MrQ, a past Q model (http://www.qmodels.com/) you have our Q-ologies for using your name in vain, as stated in the Q commandments.   Question.  Who let the Q's out?
   
  I leave you with a Q-azy cover......

   
  
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> My Querimony is that all I see are a Quarrelsome Quantity of Quaint Quacks, that have left me Qualmish. I have Quizzed and Questioned the attempts at Quickwittedness and come to the conclusion that you should all Quit your Quibbling and Quite down.
> 
> Quadrophenicly
> 
> Q


----------



## ianmedium

Well. My balanced cable from Toxic cables arrived yesterday. On the recommendation of a couple of friends of mine who have purchased the speakers cables from this company I went ahead and bought the cable off their eBay store for $213 CAD.

I have also been loaned a TWag V2 cable so I can compare, Luckily for me the mate who has the TWag also has the Blackbird so I am able to compare in Balanced mode. I am going to wait until the silver poison and balanced section of the Blackbird are fully burned in to do a full review with my thoughts on cable comparisons of stock, Toxic and TWag but I thought I would post initial thoughts now.

I ordered this cable, with modifications to my requirements.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Audeze-LCD-2-6ft-Pure-Silver-OCC-cable-6-3mm-Viablue-/120823817960?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item1c21a926e8#ht_2131wt_1413

I had Toxic shorten the length to four feet as that is all I need but had them make it up for me terminated with the blackbird balanced termination as well as an adaptor to go from Balanced to single ended so that A. I can compare both single ended and balanced and B. so that if I go to meets or to friends with home amps that are single ended I can simply slip on a 6.4mm adaptor and listen via their amps! Toxic did all that and just charged me the same as the 6ft cable which I thought a good deal!

My initial thoughts in comparison to the stock cable are greater detail and pace rhythm and timing. The bass has firmed up and has greater texture. Likewise female vocals have more emotion and feeling, there is a greater sense of occasion and one feels closer to the vocalist I find. Also though there is more detail there is also an increased "Yummy" factor! Like you want to go up and embrace her, the presentation feels richer and more fulfilling than what the stock cable gives.

Up at the high end the cable gives a more crystalline presentation, it seems to both add detail and yet smooth out the treble presentation so as to make it non fatiguing. 

Detail retrieval is outstanding and yet not at the expense of harshness or edginess I wonder if this balance is due to the 1% gold content?

In comparison to the TWag (which I have been dying to hear but could not as my friend did not have an adaptor to hear it single ended so I could not hear it on my Stepdance but now can as I have the Blackbird also I can!).. Hmm, his TWag has well over 1000 hours on it so I would assume it is performing at it's full potential and remember my cable only has around 40 hours on it so far (Toxic pre-burn in for 24 hours before shipping) I found the TWag to seem to give more detail as it seems, to my ears, to give a quite forward presentation, a bit too forward for my personal taste.

Listening to the Wallin Jennys sing Arlington I went back and forth between the Toxic and TWag and began to realize that I was not losing detail with the Toxic but rather all the detail was there it was just not pushing it upon me! Early days and the TWag is very nice but I feel the Toxic affords a more natural presentation whilst still allowing one to hear all the details, it is just that they are part of a whole rather than feeling seperate to the musical experience.

Of course I need to listen more and will do, as I said this is a brief thought sharing of my initial feelings. At this moment I feel I made the right choice with the Toxic silver poison cable. It allows the LCD's to do what they do best and give more of what us fans have come to love about them.

A note on build quality. I can't really fault either but prefer the slightly softer sheathing of the Toxic cable, likewise the Terminations at the headphone end feel a little more substantial and secure. It looks like TWag use the same as Audeze do. But really this is picky. I would be happy with either in terms of build quality though for me the Toxic cable splitter and overall quality feels like how they present the music..With class!


A note. I went also for the full copper RF sheathing so it does make the cable a little less flexible but the apparently do offer the option on not having that for extra flexibility.

Here are a couple of pictures. I love that the Mini XLR's right channel is sheathed in a creamy white!

Here are some pictures, mine suck so I have taken one from the ebay listing as well! For those on the fence, for me a cable upgrade makes absolute sense. The stock cables are a great start but with what I have heard so far the improvements allow the LCD's to really show what they are capable of I think!

One from eBay.


And my own!


----------



## ianmedium

Oh yes, forgot to add.
No connection with the company other than satisfied customer!


----------



## Steve Eddy

You know how there's a particular food that you really like, and one day you eat waaaaaaaaaaaay too much of it? And then you get reeeeeeeeeally sick and spend an hour with your head in the toilet? And after that, you don't really like that particular food so much anymore?
   
  Well, it's kinda like that.
   
  Come on. Somebody gimme an F! Or a W! or a C! Anything but a... 
   
  *BLLLARRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!*
   
  Oh God. It came out my nose.
   
  *sigh*
   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

steve eddy said:


> You know how there's a particular food that you really like, and one day you eat waaaaaaaaaaaay too much of it? And then you get reeeeeeeeeally sick and spend an hour with your head in the toilet? And after that, you don't really like that particular food so much anymore?
> 
> Well, it's kinda like that.
> 
> ...




Hmm, Mr Q, have you been imbibing of the amber nectar from Scotland a little too much??


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Hmm, Mr Q, have you been imbibing of the amber nectar from Scotland a little too much??


 

 That would be a great excuse. But sadly, the answer is... er, no. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Stevtt




----------



## WNBC

Thank you for the review with pictures.  You guys are making it difficult to resist the power of silver.  You mentioned 1% gold.  Was that supposed to be 1% copper?  I haven't read nearly enough reviews of silver cables but it seems that they don't have to be bright and that configuration + gold/copper mixed in will help bring out the best of these types of cables.  
   
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Detail retrieval is outstanding and yet not at the expense of harshness or *edginess I wonder if this balance is due to the 1% gold content*?
> In comparison to the TWag (which I have been dying to hear but could not as my friend did not have an adaptor to hear it single ended so I could not hear it on my Stepdance but now can as I have the Blackbird also I can!).. Hmm, his TWag has well over 1000 hours on it so I would assume it is performing at it's full potential and remember my cable only has around 40 hours on it so far (Toxic pre-burn in for 24 hours before shipping) I found the TWag to seem to give more detail as it seems, to my ears, to give a quite forward presentation, a bit too forward for my personal taste.
> Listening to the Wallin Jennys sing Arlington I went back and forth between the Toxic and TWag and began to realize that I was not losing detail with the Toxic but rather all the detail was there it was just not pushing it upon me! Early days and the TWag is very nice but I feel the Toxic affords a more natural presentation whilst still allowing one to hear all the details, it is just that they are part of a whole rather than feeling seperate to the musical experience.


----------



## scootermafia

Never heard of a silver/copper alloy.  It says on the site it's silver/gold alloy, similar to Mundorf wire which is also 99% silver, 1% gold.  Is the cable in the pictures made of stranded wire?


----------



## ianmedium

Hi Guys, not really a technical person so it is all dutch to me but from what I gather from the makers it is OCC stranded silver with 1% gold a bit like Mundorf but I believe Mundorf is solid rather than stranded. Not sure what OCC means, anyone know?

Does anyone with technical expertise know if the Gold content would do what I think it is doing. I must admit I chose this cable as i heard some friends loudspeaker cable and I liked what it did to the sound in comparison to their other copper cable.


----------



## SpudHarris

I know there are a lot of guys (MOT's) that are very proud and protective of what they produce and their market share and for the majority of them, rightly so. However, if like me you are UK based you will know that for ever and a day we have been starved of decent aftermarket cables for a fair price. I have bought from Moon and ALO and both make great cables but taking into account VAT, shipping and what could be considered an already expensive (overpriced) cable the costs really rack up.
   
  I too have an LCD cable from the same manufacturer (Toxic Cables) as well as a Hirose balanced HE-6 cable and single ended adapter. I'm not going to go into the same amount of detail as Ian but what I will say is that the quality of their cables is undeniably good both in terms of build and SQ. Infinately customisable and fast turn around + they are UK based which for me is an absolute godsend....
   
  My LCD cable is at about 120 hours I guess and I can't see it maturing any further really but it is a real step up from the stock cable. My HE-6 cable only arrived last week and I am so into the LCD-2 at the moment I haven't really given it/them much air.
   
  I sense a level of bitterness/sarcasm and I'm not entirely sure why? There's room for another quality cable supplier and many will be pleased that they are UK based.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I sense a level of bitterness/sarcasm and I'm not entirely sure why? There's room for another quality cable supplier and many will be pleased that they are UK based.


 


  Explain the bitterness/sarcasm detection. I don't see any from anyone.  Your'e not mistaking our rolling fun and reaction with/from a certain letter of the alphabet are you?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Thank you for the review with pictures.  You guys are making it difficult to resist the power of silver.  You mentioned 1% gold.  Was that supposed to be 1% copper?  I haven't read nearly enough reviews of silver cables but it seems that they don't have to be bright and that configuration + gold/copper mixed in will help bring out the best of these types of cables.


 


  Buy the cable! You know you want it! You've been jonsing for silver.


----------



## ianmedium

Hey Spud, glad your enjoying yours as well.


----------



## ianmedium

warriorant said:


> Buy the cable! You know you want it! You've been jonsing for silver.




Oh you enabler you! 

I think we are so lucky nowadays, as consumers we have such a wide choice so as to be able to choose the exact combination that fits us perfectly, some prefer copper, other silver or an amalgam of materials. 

In the end sonic bliss is the ultimate destination and there is no one route that is right or wrong I feel.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Explain the bitterness/sarcasm detection. I don't see any from anyone.  Your'e not mistaking our rolling fun and reaction with/from a certain letter of the alphabet are you?


 

 Read the 2 or 3 posts after ianmediums mini cable review and tell me you don't sense anything...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Read the 2 or 3 posts after ianmediums mini cable review and tell me you don't sense anything...


 

 My post had absolutely nothing to do with ianmedium's mini cable review post. It had to do with all the "Q" banter that preceded it.
   
  se


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Read the 2 or 3 posts after ianmediums mini cable review and tell me you don't sense anything...


 
  I guess Steve already answered...I was going to say the same thing about his posts being about the "Q" brouhaha.  I have never known him to show bitterness or sarcasm towards anyone else's product or efforts.  Sarcasm for sarcasm's sake (or to make a point)...yes, but to denigrate another's efforts. absolutely not.
  
  Ok, Steve, I'll take that kickback in McDonald's Gift Certificates...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - Here's tossing a "P" and a "U" your way...hope they help your condition.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Noooohhhhh!!!!! Did you succumb to the darkside WA? Will you be applying the TP mod?

  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> No, no, this Q


 


  LOL. I loved this NG movie back in the day.

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Personally I prefer Maggie Q.  Black cotton is fine with me.


 
   

 Nice.


----------



## WNBC

Call me a silver junkie who's never had silver.  Nah, if I buy silver then I have two headphone cables and one headphone.  Which then means I need a 2nd headphone and logically that means LCD-2 rev1 or LCD-3.  I could sell my Norse cable but then I hear they come for you in the middle of night and stuff you ears with the TP mod.
   
  Right or wrong, I've been associating "silver" with "detail".  Got break this association somehow.....

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Buy the cable! You know you want it! You've been jonsing for silver.


----------



## Stevtt

My post was also in response to the Q traffic. Just by the time my dinosaur brain reacted there were several posts in the middle.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


hk_sends said:


> "Q" brouhaha.


 
   
  Q-haha?


----------



## MorbidToaster

Head. Desk.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Q-haha?


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Q-haha?


 
  LOL!  Didn't think of that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Read the 2 or 3 posts after ianmediums mini cable review and tell me you don't sense anything...


 

 Thats the problem with electronic posts and the timeline of the threads.  sometimes the beams can cross and things get murky.  None of the MOTs here would disrespect like that.  What happened was the energy of two separate posts crossed for a bit and it may have seemed like there was some conflict but there was none.  Everyone here including the MOTs are interested in new cables from any corner of the earth and as far as I have seen the MOT's aren't that sensitive to the adulations of another MOT's cable from the members.
   
  It was just bad timing that the review came during the flurry of alphabet fun that was occurring, and to be honest who doesn't like to abuse Steve!


----------



## Argo Duck

Just posting I got my LCD Q-cable this week. For other reasons I didn't get to listen until last night. Won't attempt to describe the difference until I've had more time, but suffice to say there _is_ a difference to my ears and it's well worthwhile.
   
  As well, the cable just looks great. Steve was great helping with pictures and advice as I went back and forth debating different colors and combinations, but honestly I need not have worried. I can see the cable would've looked great whatever I chose. Btw I chose a combination of the stock black and golden-yellow.
   
  Whether by accident or design, it has a quietly under-stated, almost old-fashioned look/feel about it. In my case at least a brash, in-your-face look might have been risky. I might have tired of it quickly. This, on the contrary, has been growing on me all week. It tones well with my home office/study too!


----------



## ianmedium

argo duck said:


> Just posting I got my LCD Q-cable this week. For other reasons I didn't get to listen until last night. Won't attempt to describe the difference until I've had more time, but suffice to say there _is_ a difference to my ears and it's well worthwhile.
> 
> As well, the cable just looks great. Steve was great helping with pictures and advice as I went back and forth debating different colors and combinations, but honestly I need not have worried. I can see the cable would've looked great whatever I chose. Btw I chose a combination of the stock black and golden-yellow.
> 
> Whether by accident or design, it has a quietly under-stated, almost old-fashioned look/feel about it. In my case at least a brash, in-your-face look might have been risky. I might have tired of it quickly. This, on the contrary, has been growing on me all week. It tones well with my home office/study too!



Congratulations, I am looking forward to hearing more of what you think about it.

Arn't we lucky that there are so many talented people out there building this sort of stuff so we can enjoy music more!


----------



## Stevtt

Just got my Q in today and started listening.Very well built and looks fantastic. Going to take me awhile to sort everything out because I'm also breaking in a new (to me) amp.
   
  I will say that I am extremely pleased with Steve's customer service. He has gone out of his way to help me and and has put up with my idiocy with nothing but grace and humor (of course that may be his way of keeping from hunting me down and choking me out).


----------



## Stevtt

I love it. I've only had it for a couple day. Using it for headphones and as a pre-amp. But I always have been partial to Rays amps.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I need to find someone that has. Been looking for about 2 weeks. 
  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> They are very different and all well regarded.  The B22 has 3 varieties of transistor in it, while the RSA gear uses op amps - different approaches but they're all damned powerful amps.  There's probably someone on head-fi that's heard all 3 in close succession...


----------



## krod3003

Guys, GUYS! Let take all this talk about amps to the *Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-2* thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Back on topic, just recieved Norse Audio 4-Wire Cable. Jesus this thing is beautiful, hell even the packaging is great and looks retail, I almost feel like I just bought this at the store. Everything looks well made, the wiring, the braiding, the matching splitter, logos, everything! If their prices don't go up, I will continue to buy from Norse *forever*. I'll get some pics up soon, but I sure am a happy camper.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Another moderator!  and I was going to invite you out to Goodyear!


----------



## songmic

I just ordered 8-wire Norn litz cable and it should arrive next week. Gotta admit, one of the reasons I bought a Norse cable was its aesthetic beauty, but I've seen a lot of people in this thread who were quite happy with its sound. I shall compare it with my ALO and DHC cables, but something tells me I won't be disappointed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





krod3003 said:


> Guys, GUYS! Let take all this talk about amps to the *Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-2* thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Currawong

I've moved 36 posts about amps to the amp thread FYI.


----------



## HK_sends

It's nice that someone changed the thread title to include the LCD-3s!  Now I can post here again...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> It's nice that someone changed the thread title to include the LCD-3s!  Now I can post here again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 x2, i saw the thread name change. Its good so someone doesn't open up a "LCD-3 Owners- which aftermarket cable do you use?" thread, since they use the same cable.


----------



## ianmedium

I too did not notice the thread title change, heck we are all LCD family here eh!

This will make the thread more interesting as those who have both the three and two can tell us what difference one specific cable makes in the overall sound between the two versions. I would find that interesting, what may be a good choice for the three may not for the two and vis versa!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I too did not notice the thread title change, heck we are all LCD family here eh!
> This will make the thread more interesting as those who have both the three and *two can tell us what difference one specific cable makes in the overall sound between the two versions*. I would find that interesting, what may be a good choice for the three may not for the two and vis versa!


 


  Ah, yes. I'd love to hear about that as well.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I too did not notice the thread title change, heck we are all LCD family here eh!
> This will make the thread more interesting as those who have both the three and two can tell us what difference one specific cable makes in the overall sound between the two versions. I would find that interesting, what may be a good choice for the three may not for the two and vis versa!


 


  I'll let you know how the Q fares with the LCD-3.  From my experience with the Q and the LCD-2 r.2 I don't think there will be a difference.  The Q does not impose a tone signature on the LCD-2 so It will probably be the same for the LCD-3 unless of course one considers high resolution xfer of the signal and clear clean clarity throughout the spectrum a tone control.  First though I am familiarizing myself to the  ribbon cable of the 3's before I switch over to the Q's.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'll let you know how the Q fares with the LCD-3.  From my experience with the Q and the LCD-2 r.2 I don't think there will be a difference.  The Q does not impose a tone signature on the LCD-2 so It will probably be the same for the LCD-3 unless of course one considers high resolution xfer of the signal and clear clean clarity throughout the spectrum a tone control.  First though I am familiarizing myself to the  ribbon cable of the 3's before I switch over to the Q's.


 


  Thanks!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'll let you know how the Q fares with the LCD-3.  From my experience with the Q and the LCD-2 r.2 I don't think there will be a difference.  The Q does not impose a tone signature on the LCD-2 so It will probably be the same for the LCD-3 unless of course one considers high resolution xfer of the signal and clear clean clarity throughout the spectrum a tone control.  First though I am familiarizing myself to the  ribbon cable of the 3's before I switch over to the Q's.


 
   
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Thanks!


 
  To me, there is no difference using the Q-Audio cable with the LCD-2s or 3s.  The cable just tends to "get out of the way" of the sound.  I didn't detect any real kind of sonic influence one way or the other.
  Of course, this is all IMHO and YMMV.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## MorbidToaster

Same to report from me. The Q cable made no Difference to my ears. Just what I wanted. A custom cable that just let me enjoy the house sound.


----------



## ChaosClouds

Love Q Audio ;D
  Lightweight as feather, the sound is neutral, and it has great build & workmanship
  Here some pics of my LCD-2 Q Cable decorated with some wood effects 
   
   

   
   

   
  Hope you like it Steve 
   
  Thanks


----------



## HK_sends

Very nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ChaosClouds* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hope you like it Steve


 

 Oh, cool! That's that paper wood you were telling me about, right?
   
  Thanks!
   
  se


----------



## ChaosClouds

I modified the paper wood with some wood ink


----------



## googleli

The Norse Litz cable works wonder on both 2 and 3. 
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I too did not notice the thread title change, heck we are all LCD family here eh!
> 
> This will make the thread more interesting as those who have both the three and two can tell us what difference one specific cable makes in the overall sound between the two versions. I would find that interesting, what may be a good choice for the three may not for the two and vis versa!


----------



## MacedonianHero

I can confirm that the Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3 works great on all three Audeze headphones (LCD-2 rev.1/2 and the LCD-3s).


----------



## ianmedium

This is great information folks, I am really enjoying the comparisons between phones and cables!


----------



## Omshallom

Just ordered a pure purple cable from Q-Audio,
  How can one pass up this wonderful opportunity to have a purple cable !!!!!
  Thanks for all your help Steve.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Glad to see more people taking advantage of Steve's color options. I'm sure you'll love the cable. What configuration did you get? Length, termination, adapters, etc.
  
  Quote: 





omshallom said:


> Just ordered a pure purple cable from Q-Audio,
> How can one pass up this wonderful opportunity to have a purple cable !!!!!
> Thanks for all your help Steve.


----------



## Omshallom

After seeing the pics of your cables MorbidToaster, I was intrigued, and when I went to the Q-Audio website, I couldn't see the purple option,
  so I sent Steve a PM asking if it were indeed possible to get a purple cable made, and he said yes. ^^
   
  I ordered a 2 metre cable with the 1/4" TRS termination to use with my Dacmini.
   
  Before this set up, I was using my trusty Technics RP-DJ1210 with my ipod / iphone combination. ( for nearly 10 years, this worked wonderfully, and still does, although a bit inferior to my new setup ).


----------



## HK_sends

Yeah, while Steve's color options on the site are limited (might be because he can't guarantee that he'll have the other colors at any one time), just PM him and he'll be happy to let you know what's available! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MorbidToaster

He has to order the special colors from what I understand. It usually increases the time it takes to get you your cable. 
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Yeah, while Steve's color options on the site are limited (might be because he can't guarantee that he'll have the other colors at any one time), just PM him and he'll be happy to let you know what's available!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

That makes sense...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -HK sends


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'd like a set of cables in the team colors for the New York Knickerbockers.  But I wouldn't be able to decide on the home colors or the away colors.
   
  Spent a good part of the afternoon comparing the LCD-3 supplied ribbon cable with the Q cable.  That exercise is always tedious and a bit exhausting but good for sharpening up the listening skills.   The Q is the winner again.  Sounds good on the LCD-2's and the LCD-3's.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> When I was ordering, I saw pictures of the purple, and thought it looked good, so I went that route, but there are actually quite a few color choices: http://www.q-audio.com/threads.html
> 
> There's no additional charge for different colors, but there's generally a 2-3 week lead time in order for Steve to get the custom color braid.


 

 Yeah, gonna go ahead and quote my own post.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I kind of want to do a red/black cable for my (most likely) future LF.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah, gonna go ahead and quote my own post.


----------



## KimbaWLion

WOW that is SOME color choice... Choices, Choices, Choices....


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Those cables, along with the colored screens, are fun for home use but I wouldn't want to take them out in public. They ruin the expansive and classy look of the headphone IMO. It's like having a black leather jacket and dying it pink. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'd love to walk in a recording studio with a team full of people and have the LCD-2 - Barney Edition.
   
   


morbidtoaster said:


> As promised...the Purple People Eater! (Told you I'd do it, Steve)


----------



## Devarika Woulf

I have a real question. What's the main differences between the Q headphone cable ($275) and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Headphone Cable ($350)? I like the color options and the look of the Q. I am buying a LCD-2.2, a Rega DAC, and a V200 Amp. Does it matter which I go with? I am going for a warm, analog sound and would not like the cable to affect the high-quality sound of my gear. Thanks.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> I have a real question. What's the main differences between the Q headphone cable ($275) and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Headphone Cable ($350)? I like the color options and the look of the Q. I am buying a LCD-2.2, a Rega DAC, and a V200 Amp. Does it matter which I go with? I am going warm, analog sound and would not like the cable to affect the high-quality sound of my gear. Thanks.


 


  Then I'd go for the Q, not the silver.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Thanks. How would the silver affect my sound?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Thanks. How would the silver affect my sound?


 


  The general finding is that silver makes brighter sounding, the Q cables use OCC if I'm not mistaken, just like the Norse


----------



## Waazup

^^ I cannot find any mention of OCC pn Q site, it just says pure copper.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





waazup said:


>


 


  Deverica Wolf wanted "warm" so in that case I wouldn't recommend silver. that's all, this wasn't a general recommendation 
  Cable guys seem to be sleeping still, they'll have the full details for you


----------



## songmic

Has anyone ever compared the cables from Q Audio and Norse Audio? Both are litz wire, OCC copper, cotton braided, similarly priced, and both were very favorably reviewed by users in this thread. I have a Norse cable on its way here, but I'd like to know how it compares to other cables, especially Q.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





waazup said:


> ^^ I cannot find any mention of OCC pn Q site, it just says pure copper.


 

 Yup. It's just CDA110 (otherwise known as Electrolytic Tough Pitch, or ETP) copper wire made from regular continuous cast rod.
   
  se


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Yup. It's just CDA110 (otherwise known as Electrolytic Tough Pitch, or ETP) copper wire made from regular continuous cast rod.
> 
> se


 

 My mistake, I had in mind Q and Norse used the same cable, guess that's not the case then. There's a first difference already Songmic


----------



## WNBC

I don't know of anyone that owns both Litz cables but DeadEars made a comparison between the Q litz and Norse non-Litz cable.  I reviewed the Norse Norn litz cable (http://www.head-fi.org/products/norse-audio-4-wire-norn-series-up-occ-lcd-2-headphone-cable/reviews/5715) and you will be able to soon have a listen for yourself.  So possibly from all of that you can piece together a semi-comparison.  
   
  Would be fun to get the Q in the school colors, purple and gold.  Waiting on WA to let me know if I need a LCD-3 to complement the LCD-2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Kidding of course, I'm still diggin' the LCD-2 rev2 a whole lot so the LCD-3 would have to be worth the extra $1K without the need for upgrading other parts of my audio chain.
   
   
   


> *Originally Posted by DeadEars *
> 
> Yup, I extensively auditioned the Norse cable (both 4 and 8 conductor) before buying the Q cable.  I have Rev.1 LCD-2's and I appreciated the increase in resolution that both Norse cables and Q cables seem to provide.  I can tell you that both were an improvement over the stock cable, since I listened to the Norse for a week, then went back, then listened to the 8-conductor for a week and went back then tried comparing the 4 vs. 8 for while, and finally got the Q for a week and went back to stock again for a week.  No side-by-side for Norse vs. Q, but not much time in between.  Nevertheless, i don't share WA's skill at exactly remembering sound signatures, so you'll have to take my comments with the appropriate grains of salt.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





songmic said:


> Has anyone ever compared the cables from Q Audio and Norse Audio? Both are litz wire, OCC copper, cotton braided, similarly priced, and both were very favorably reviewed by users in this thread. I have a Norse cable on its way here, but I'd like to know how it compares to other cables, especially Q.


----------



## MorbidToaster

But there's no green... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Either way the flash makes it look brighter than it really is. It's pretty dark and hard to notice unless you're fairly close. 
   
  Either way I think I'll be keeping this cable in reserve for amp testing soon and just get an SE (different colors and length) from Steve once I decide on an actual end game amp... (That LF looks mighty nice and it's SE only so no need for adapters)
  
  Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Those cables, along with the colored screens, are fun for home use but I wouldn't want to take them out in public. They ruin the expansive and classy look of the headphone IMO. It's like having a black leather jacket and dying it pink.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> I have a real question. What's the main differences between the Q headphone cable ($275) and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Headphone Cable ($350)? I like the color options and the look of the Q. I am buying a LCD-2.2, a Rega DAC, and a V200 Amp. Does it matter which I go with? I am going for a warm, analog sound and would not like the cable to affect the high-quality sound of my gear. Thanks.


 

 I do not know about the Norse.  But the Q is neither warm nor cold.  It has excellent clarity and transparency, does not act like a tone control.  For me it works well with the V200 and the LCD-2 r.2 and the LCD-3.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I do not know about the Norse.  But the Q is neither warm nor cold.  It has excellent clarity and transparency, does not act like a tone control.  For me it works well with the V200 and the LCD-2 r.2 and the LCD-3.


 


  You guys are great. Thank you very much.
   
  I am actually going to wait until my LCD-2 comes in to order. I just got Free Two-Day Shipping from Woo Audio. I would like to combine black and another color for my cable...brown maybe? Better than just plain black alone. The problem is, it seems the LCD-2's wood varies from model to model so when mine comes in, I will place the order...the closest to match the LCD-2's colors. Besides, I would like to listen to the stock cable for at-least a week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   




chaosclouds said:


> Love Q Audio ;D
> Lightweight as feather, the sound is neutral, and it has great build & workmanship
> Here some pics of my LCD-2 Q Cable decorated with some wood effects


 
   
  How'd you get the wood?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> You guys are great. Thank you very much.
> 
> I am actually going to wait until my LCD-2 comes in to order. I just got Free Two-Day Shipping from Woo Audio. I would like to combine black and another color for my cable...brown maybe? Better than just plain black alone. The problem is, it seems the LCD-2's wood varies from model to model so when mine comes in, I will place the order...the closest to match the LCD-2's colors. Besides, I would like to listen to the stock cable for at-least a week.


 

  You should listen the the entire system for at least a month before you tweak it with a cable, interconnect or power cord in my opinion. Maybe even longer.  The LCD-2 's alone will need a good amount of burn in before it settles down.  The V200 needs a small amount. I do not know about the Rega DAC but the W$S DAC-2 needed quite a bit before it began to behave.     I've gone through 3 pairs of LCD-2's and the wood seemed the same on all three.  Are you buying an amp from Woo?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> How'd you get the wood?


 

 He used a product like this:
   
  http://www.virtualdollhouse.net/VDSTORE/REAL_Wood_Paper.htm
   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

warriorant said:


> You should listen the the entire system for at least a month before you tweak it with a cable, interconnect or power cord in my opinion. Maybe even longer.  The LCD-2 's alone will need a good amount of burn in before it settles down.  The V200 needs a small amount. I do not know about the Rega DAC but the W$S DAC-2 needed quite a bit before it began to behave.     I've gone through 3 pairs of LCD-2's and the wood seemed the same on all three.  Are you buying an amp from Woo?




Completely agree, I waited several months before going for an aftermarket cable. not only so as to allow burn in and such but also to read lot's of thoughts and reviews of the various cables so as to give me more information as to what I think would be best for my liking.. It worked!


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Completely agree, I waited several months before going for an aftermarket cable. not only so as to allow burn in and such but also to read lot's of thoughts and reviews of the various cables so as to give me more information as to what I think would be best for my liking.. It worked!


 


  I never used the stock cable...
   
  Q cable looked too sexy to me, and had very good reviews. I should test the stock cable some of this days...


----------



## MorbidToaster

Don't bother. 
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I never used the stock cable...
> 
> Q cable looked too sexy to me, and had very good reviews. I should test the stock cable some of this days...


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You should listen the the entire system for at least a month before you tweak it with a cable, interconnect or power cord in my opinion. Maybe even longer.  The LCD-2 's alone will need a good amount of burn in before it settles down.  The V200 needs a small amount. I do not know about the Rega DAC but the W$S DAC-2 needed quite a bit before it began to behave.     I've gone through 3 pairs of LCD-2's and the wood seemed the same on all three.  Are you buying an amp from Woo?


 

  
   
  Maybe I will. They are not having a sale but at-least I know what I am looking at in the future. On the wood, I was going by photos but I do know cameras vary. For the amp, I was about to order from here...
   
http://aphroditecu29.com/Violectric/V200.aspx
   
  I just need to know what cable to connect my amp/DAC before I order. It's been a really fun day. I can't wait to hear all this. Yay = Me.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Maybe I will. They are not having a sale but at-least I know what I am looking at in the future. On the wood, I was going by photos but I do know cameras vary. For the amp, I was about to order from here...
> 
> http://aphroditecu29.com/Violectric/V200.aspx
> 
> I just need to know what cable to connect my amp/DAC before I order. It's been a really fun day. I can't wait to hear all this. Yay = Me.


 
  Aphroditecu29 is where I purchased my V200.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> The general finding is that silver makes brighter sounding, the Q cables use OCC* if I'm not mistaken*, just like the Norse


 

 You are mistaken. Silver is colder in look and many have thought of this somehow affects the sound. Good silver cables (7N+) are a great selection. They really help with transparency in the mids/treble with zero deleterious effects on the bass or "warmth".
   
  Now in terms of matching with the LCD-2/3s, I am a big proponent of good silver cables. They seem to mesh really well with Audeze headphones.


----------



## ianmedium

macedonianhero said:


> You are mistaken. Silver is colder in look and many have thought of this somehow affects the sound. Good silver cables (7N+) are a great selection. They really help with transparency in the mids/treble with zero deleterious effects on the bass or "warmth".
> 
> Now in terms of matching with the LCD-2/3s, I am a big proponent of good silver cables. They seem to mesh really well with Audeze headphones.




Very much agree with your thoughts. I am finding my stranded sliver to really compliment the Audeze's. I think the 1% gold in my Toxic silver poisons also adds a little smoothness and richness to the over all sound.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Any particular suggestions? I would assume Moon Audio is on the list of 'good ones'.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> You are mistaken. Silver is colder in look and many have thought of this somehow affects the sound. Good silver cables (7N+) are a great selection. They really help with transparency in the mids/treble with zero deleterious effects on the bass or "warmth".
> 
> Now in terms of matching with the LCD-2/3s, *I am a big proponent of good silver cables. They seem to mesh really well with Audeze headphones.*


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Any particular suggestions? I would assume Moon Audio is on the list of 'good ones'.


 


  Absolutely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And Drew is a great guy to deal with.


----------



## googleli

The ALO 16 wire Reference LCD3 cable. So far I am quite impressed but needs more time for burn in. I heard silver requires more burn in time than pure copper ones.

  
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Any particular suggestions? I would assume Moon Audio is on the list of 'good ones'.


----------



## scootermafia

There's mass confusion on this thread as always that I can alleviate.  While I can't volunteer any information about myself, I can state known facts that are not opinions or subjective judgements.  Here we go:
   
  Cable brands - *OCC* vs. *Non OCC* vs. *Some models with and some without*
   
  ALO: Non OCC
  Jena: Probably not OCC
  Moon Audio: OCC only 
  Stefan: Non OCC
  Norse Audio: OCC only
  Toxic Cables: OCC only
  Cardas: Non OCC
  Q-Audio: Non OCC
  Whiplash Audio: OCC only
  Aphrodite: OCC only
  Apuresound: Non OCC
  ZX Amateur Cables: OCC only
  Frost Audio: Non OCC
   
  Anyone I miss?
   
  With gold content or silver cables, it's a challenge to properly evaluate them because of inescapable biases that silver is bright and shiny, and gold is sultry and soft.  For me it is a constant fight to determine what is in my head and what is real, and to erase that bias.


----------



## ianmedium

morbidtoaster said:


> Any particular suggestions? I would assume Moon Audio is on the list of 'good ones'.




From my experience add to that list Toxic cables. Good customer service and they handled my special request very well indeed.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





googleli said:


> The ALO 16 wire Reference LCD3 cable. So far I am quite impressed but needs more time for burn in.* I heard silver requires more burn in time than pure copper ones.*


 

 Yep...my experiences mirror this too.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'd love to hear one of their cables on the LCD 2. The HE5LE I tried had a Silver Dragon cable and it sounded great. 
   
  I was going to order my D7000 from them with a recable, but I ended up just buying it stock. 
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *scootermafia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Jena: OCC only


 

 Jena Labs doesn't use OCC.
   
  se


----------



## Currawong

In my experience with two pairs of LCD-2s and a pair of LCD-3s, they did not change in the slightest with use, so I wouldn't worry about "burn-in". My brain did adapt to the difference frequency response, however, especially as I would describe the frequency response as not the most ideal for me.
   
  I felt that all the cables I tried were an improvement, if a subtle one, over the stock cable that comes with the LCD-2s and 3s so I'd say it'd be pretty hard to go wrong if you decide to buy one, unless you're looking for a change in the frequency response, which some people are.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





currawong said:


> In my experience with two pairs of LCD-2s and a pair of LCD-3s, they did not change in the slightest with use, so I wouldn't worry about "burn-in". My brain did adapt to the difference frequency response, however, especially as I would describe the frequency response as not the most ideal for me.
> 
> I felt that all the cables I tried were an improvement, if a subtle one, over the stock cable that comes with the LCD-2s and 3s so I'd say it'd be pretty hard to go wrong if you decide to buy one, unless you're looking for a change in the frequency response, which some people are.


 


  Funny, I agree with the LCD-2 rev.1s and LCD-3s with regards to no burn in change, but I could swear the LCD-2 rev. 2s did in fact change over the first 50 hours.


----------



## ianmedium

scootermafia said:


> There's mass confusion on this thread as always that I can alleviate.  While I can't volunteer any information about myself, I can state known facts that are not opinions or subjective judgements.  Here we go:
> 
> Cable brands - *OCC* vs. *Non OCC* vs. *Some models with and some without*
> 
> ...




Thank you! That is so useful as a reference point and also thank you for your thoughts on the gold content bit, it echoes my feelings as to what it brings to the mix. I remember when I first started out with all of this a few years ago getting a qables silvercab pro mundorf LOD and liked very much what it brought to the picture which is why I was fascinated by the cable I ended up purchasing. It does indeed seem to cross the detail versus luscious border which is to my particular taste.

I have opportunity to compare it to another cable which is just pure silver and it it is a little to bright and brittle for my set up. I can imagine though if I had a much warmer headphone or amp it would be perfect in that instance.

Having read so many reviews of so many cable makers products I feel it safe to say that it is not about one cable being better than the other more that it is about finding the right combination for ones particular needs. We are indeed very fortunate to have such wonderful cable makers who spoil us for choice!

Also, I agree. I feel my rev1's not to have changed with use, I think the wait in the headphones case was more for me to get familiar with the sound and see if there was anything I would like to tune a bit. The aftermarket cable has done that I feel, now all I have to do is figure out how to do a balanced connection for my ER4S and I will be as happy as a pig in $h!...


----------



## drez

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny, I agree with the LCD-2 rev.1s and LCD-3s with regards to no burn in change, but I could swear the LCD-2 rev. 2s did in fact change over the first 50 hours.


 


  x2 on this even though I used the same cable I had with the r1 as the cable was balanced.  My new r2 had grainy mids.
   
  I haven't had any clear experience of cable burn in, but I personally can't rule it out either.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





drez said:


> x2 on this even though I used the same cable I had with the r1 as the cable was balanced.  My new r2 had grainy mids.
> 
> I haven't had any clear experience of cable burn in, but I personally can't rule it out either.


 


  Yep...I too used my Moon Audio Silver Dragon for all three too.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Funny, I agree with the LCD-2 rev.1s and LCD-3s with regards to no burn in change, but I could swear the LCD-2 rev. 2s did in fact change over the first 50 hours.


 


  Without a doubt. The LCD-2 r.2  took more than 50 hours.   The LCD-2's changed a lot in the first 10-20 hours for sure.   I did not experience any change with my first pair of R.1's although the second pair of r.1's never sounded the same as the first pair I had which only had 6 weeks between them.  I am currently on my fourth day of full listening with the 3's.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Jena Labs doesn't use OCC.
> 
> se


 
   
  The site is a bit confusing since they say "linear crystal" which somewhat refers to what OCC is.  LC-OFC is another name for a type of copper, don't know much about that.  I guess I assumed for years that Jena was OCC.  My mistake, they never directly claim that.  
   
  Yes, copper these days is continuously cast.  The "Ohno" continuous cast process or OCC is something separate, a 2008 paper says: 
   
  Ohno continuous casting (OCC) technique is a combination of advanced directional solidification and high efficiency continuous casting, which can be used to produce unlimited lengths of single-crystal copper wires [1–5].
   
  After rereading the book & patent I can explain it a bit better.  Ohno's process was created to improve upon the existing continuous cast process.  Basically regular continuous casting forced molten copper into a cool mold which made it cool from the outside in (the outside of the copper rod would be solid, but inside it would be molten, like one of those chocolate lava cakes).  Ohno simply changed it up so that the mold that shaped the copper was heated, so that as the copper went out of the furnace, it went into a trough-like, open, heated mold where its cooling could be controlled - to prevent the top from solidifying while the copper is in this heated open-air mold, there's heaters above this trough to keep the flowing copper hot.  The copper is cooled by water jets at the end of the mold, so that the interface between solid and molten copper is right at the exit of the mold - so that no crystallization occurs when the copper is in physical contact with a mold, since that would cool it from the outside while the center of the rod is still molten.  The copper flows out of the mold onto a "dummy bar" which is like a conveyor belt that coaxes the liquid copper from the mold into a solid state, hence the "continuous" term - it's like taffy being pulled, if you can imagine liquid taffy in your left hand, and your right hand grabbing the taffy and pulling on it over and over, so that a rope of solid taffy starts to accumulate.  What you get is one crystal of copper.
   
  I have no idea how people jumped from the industrial process of OCC-manufacture to using OCC for cables.  What I do know is that this OCC process produces a different product than other continuous casting processes.  It's up to people to decide if OCC means anything for audio, but it isn't right to suggest that the OCC designation is meaningless, when it is clearly a specific process making a specific product with different properties than other copper rods.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The site is a bit confusing since they say "linear crystal" which somewhat refers to what OCC is.


 
   
  Well, it's pretty clear that they're basically thrashing OCC:
   
_Note:  All copper wire is continuously cast, that is how copper wire, even the wire in your walls, is made... using a continuous cast technique.  Don't be fooled by hype._
   
  Quote: 





> LC-OFC is another name for a type of copper, don't know much about that.


 
   
  LC-OFC is a trademark of Hitachi Cable Limited. Been around since the early 80's. It's basically an annealing process which results in larger crystals. Hitachi secured a US patent on it in 1986 (4,582,545). The patent's loaded with a number of BS unsubstantiated claims. And like OCC, it's only marketed to audiophiles.
   
  Quote: 





> Yes, copper these days is continuously cast.  The "Ohno" continuous cast process or OCC is something separate, a 2008 paper says:
> 
> Ohno continuous casting (OCC) technique is a combination of advanced directional solidification and high efficiency continuous casting, which can be used to produce unlimited lengths of single-crystal copper wires [1–5].


 
   
  Yeah, it's continuous casting using a heated mold.
   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

So long as the question is not whether OCC is the same stuff as conventional continuous cast copper, but whether copper with no crystals in it theoretically no crystal boundaries has any benefit for audio.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I've been hanging down below in that science forum place and I learned that cables don't make a difference. OCC, NON OCC,  LF-OFC, OCD ADD, ADHD  whatever.  So now I don't even use cables! I got rid of all of them.  Turns out they were right!  I saved the cotton covers to my Q's though.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> So long as the question is not whether OCC is the same stuff as conventional continuous cast copper, but whether copper with no crystals in it has any benefit for audio.


 

 No such thing as a copper cable with no crystals in it. At least I'm not aware of anyone making amorphous copper.
   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

My bad, I mean one with theoretically no crystal boundaries in it - copper that in theory has 700 foot long crystals in it.  That's the theoretical maximum.  I'm sure there's a couple of crystals in there, you'd have to get out an electron microscope to know for sure.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> From my experience add to that list Toxic cables. Good customer service and they handled my special request very well indeed.


 


 X 2
   
  Got Toxic Cables on my HE-6 and my LCD-2. Just superb in every sense...


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> My bad, I mean one with theoretically no crystal boundaries in it - copper that in theory has 700 foot long crystals in it.  That's the theoretical maximum.  I'm sure there's a couple of crystals in there, you'd have to get out an electron microscope to know for sure.


 

 Well, Hitachi's approach was to use what amounts to an annealing process when the rod is produced, which they claim resulted in larger crystals. Then when you draw the rod down to make wire, because you're elongating all the crystals, for a given length of wire, you'll have fewer crystals.
   
  Of course by the same token, you could effectively achieve the same thing by using regular rod, drawing it down even finer, and simply using more strands.
   
  But then no one has ever demonstrated that crystal boundaries are of any meaningful consequence. *shrug*
   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

One paper (Fan, 2008) says the following:
   
   
   
Ohno continuous casting (OCC) technique is a combination
of advanced directional solidification and high efficiency
continuous casting, which can be used to produce unlimited
lengths of single-crystal copper wires [1–5]. With almost
no grain boundaries, the single-crystal copper wires show
excellent capabilities for signal transmission and plastic
deformation. It is found that the resistivity of single-crystal
copper wires is about 15% lower and the elongation rate is
about 80.24% higher than those of common copper wires
[4]. Thus, single-crystal copper wires produced by OCC
have become very attractive.
   
  Regular rod has hundreds of crystals per inch, vs. one per 700 feet.  So I'm not sure you could feasibly draw down regular rod to make that happen.  
  
  As we've repeatedly established on Head-fi, there's never been a proven connection between electrical properties of the wire and a specific sound being produced.  There's also no incontrovertible proof that cables can be audibly differentiated, so I'm not here to have that argument, that's not my point here.  You do acknowledge that LCR affects a cable's sound.  If this were not a concern, cables could look like Dr. Seuss illustrations and it would be fine with everyone.  My point is that OCC wires have different electrical properties than conventional copper.  
   
  Anyway this is my last post on this subject since it's off topic.  My only point here was to clear up the fact that OCC means something specific and sometimes the term gets applied randomly, whether it is OCC or not.  It would be like if every car manufacturer put hybrid on the side of their car, whether it was a hybrid or not, it would make the word meaningless.


----------



## mwilson

They don't. Stock cable is perfectly fine, and in case none is included with the unit, lamp wire from HomeDepot will do. I must disagree with you however on getting rid of all cables - perhaps my amp is at fault here, but the soundstage is rather devoid of all sound this way.
   
  One thing that I find severely lacking with Q cables is their lack of acronyms and exotic nomenclature. This doesn't inspire confidence.
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been hanging down below in that science forum place and I learned that cables don't make a difference. OCC, NON OCC,  LF-OFC, OCD ADD, ADHD  whatever.  So now I don't even use cables! I got rid of all of them.  Turns out they were right!  I saved the cotton covers to my Q's though.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mwilson said:


> They don't. Stock cable is perfectly fine, and in case none is included with the unit, lamp wire from HomeDepot will do. I must disagree with you however on getting rid of all cables - perhaps my amp is at fault here, but the soundstage is rather devoid of all sound this way.
> 
> One thing that I find severely lacking with Q cables is their lack of acronyms and exotic nomenclature. This doesn't inspire confidence.


 

 I think I see (or hear) the problem with the void in your soundstage after removing all cables from your rig.  Try removing them again and this time don't forget to apply the much touted darling of the "science" community and mechanism for explaining any differences detected by ones own ears and not an instrument by an instrument of science the "Placebo Effect".   Once applied to a system without the use of any cabling you will discover a tremendous soundstage erupt within the sonic landscape at hand.


----------



## mwilson

Hey man, I'll smoke whatever you are 
  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...] you will discover a tremendous soundstage erupt within the sonic landscape at hand.


----------



## drez

drugs are bad.


----------



## mwilson

Of course.
  
  Quote: 





drez said:


> drugs are bad.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Mmkay.
  
  Quote: 





drez said:


> drugs are bad.


----------



## drez

mmkay
   
  back OT though so SAA use some mystery 24 awg? copper in their cable (solid core or stranded)... probably star quad?  no shielding... cotton damping... teflon jacket??
   
  Meh, don't really like these "whats in this box" style uber pricey cables.  Would rather DIY or test more reasonably priced cables, even if the results aren't quite the same, nothing guarantees you will like such an expensive cable, and resale will lose hundreds.


----------



## songmic

Damn I miss South Park...
  
  Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Mmkay.


----------



## scootermafia

SAA for the most part uses ribbon conductors.  I believe this is the only headphone cable like this.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> SAA for the most part uses ribbon conductors.  I believe this is the only headphone cable like this.


 


  That might explain a few things, guess those ribbon cables don't come cheap right?


----------



## scootermafia

Not cheap, no.  And more importantly, a pain in the ass to prepare and install.


----------



## drez

I guess another way of looking at it is the value of the R&D Stefan puts in.  Webpage still reads a bit like "whats in this box" though.


----------



## scootermafia

Well, there are 2 approaches to marketing.  One is the Blue Jeans Cable approach - "You're getting a meter of Belden coax, terminated with crimp Canare RCA plugs" - there's no mystique to it, but you know exactly what you're getting.  If you have intellectual property to protect, the other approach is the one you see here.  You know you're getting a headphone cable that someone worked pretty hard on, but you don't know the exact guts of it.  They may be more interesting than you think, or less interesting, but the only way to know for sure is to chop up the cable.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
    
  Quote:


ianmedium said:


> Very much agree with your thoughts. I am finding my stranded sliver to really compliment the Audeze's. I think the 1% gold in my Toxic silver poisons also adds a little smoothness and richness to the over all sound.


 


  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
   
  So what would be the main differences with sound between the Q and the Moon? Basically, I could go with either and they'd both be great but different?
   
  I am not sure which one I should go with.


----------



## ianmedium

That is a hard question or me to answer as mine has a little gold in it. Having now tried a well respected cable that is all silver for a week as well I think I would not personally go for all silver as it sounds a little brittle and bright for my tastes. I would imagine though with a headphone that is a little slow or overly warm it would help with that. I personally though have never found my LCD's to be that. I cannot begin to imagine what silver would do the HD800's I find it too bright for my tastes.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
> 
> So what would be the main differences with sound between the Q and the Moon? Basically, I could go with either and they'd both be great but different?
> 
> I am not sure which one I should go with.


 

 I'm not sure if anyone has tried both so it's difficult to say.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I just received my Norse cable, it's gorgeous, featherlight and great sounding straight out of the box.
  Lovely job as well on the LCD-2 to HE-500 adapter, I only need one cable now and I can get rid of that big canare Hifiman cable
  Happy!
   
  I'll upload a picture later if anyone wants


----------



## WNBC

Please do.  I would like to see what the Audeze to Hifiman adapter looks like.
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I just received my Norse cable, it's gorgeous, featherlight and great sounding straight out of the box.
> Lovely job as well on the LCD-2 to HE-500 adapter, I only need one cable now and I can get rid of that big canare Hifiman cable
> Happy!
> 
> I'll upload a picture later if anyone wants


----------



## krod3003

x3 and how much were they?

  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Please do.  I would like to see what the Audeze to Hifiman adapter looks like.


----------



## DraRaGonsGe

Old news bro-fastas
   
http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





draragonsge said:


> Old news bro-fastas
> 
> http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=37


 


  Of course that's nothing new but they look way better than these doublehelix adapters


----------



## scootermafia

Pix or it didn't happen.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Pix or it didn't happen.


 


  Sorry man, didn't mean it like that. I should have said: I prefer the look over the DH ones. Appologies
  Here's a picture
   

   
  I think the adapter was like $45, I'm not sure you can order them without buyin a cable


----------



## scootermafia

Haha I was just curious to check em out.  Lookin good...


----------



## SpudHarris

I was after some adapters a while back for using my LCD with HiFiMan HE-6. I asked the guys at Toxic and they sent me a few pics of theirs....
   
  Ended up going for another full cable but thought you guys might be interested.


----------



## ianmedium

Those look great. Really enjoying not only the build quality but also the sound of mine. I did not know they were doing the adaptor sets as well, excellent!
Hope your well Nigel.


----------



## SpudHarris

Yeah, I'm good mate. Glad like me you are enjoying your Poison 
   
  I do like my LCD cable a lot, although I have silver I'm thinking of trying one of their SPC's for my HE-6 also.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Sorry man, didn't mean it like that. I should have said: I prefer the look over the DH ones. Appologies
> Here's a picture
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That looks like a very nice cable, Ultrainferno. One cable to rule them all.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> That looks like a very nice cable, Ultrainferno. One cable to rule them all.


 
   
  That was the goal as I mostly listen to these 2 at home lately


----------



## DarknightDK

Very nice! The Norse 8 wires are on my list to get as well.


----------



## songmic

I got my 8-wire Norse litz cable yesterday, and after a day of listening I highly, highly recommend them! It's a very neutral sounding cable - it doesn't "lean" toward a certain range of sonic frequency like many cables do - so don't expect it to change the tonality or complement the warmth/coldness of your current system. What it does, is that it lifts a layer of veil over the sound of the stock ribbon cable. The most significant changes are increased transparency, detail, and clarity throughout the entire sonic spectrum.
   
  And as you probably have seen, the cable looks absolutely gorgeous. Aesthetically very pleasing, especially how the brown cotton and the wooden splitter gives a vintage look. I think it is the best-looking aftermarket cable for the LCD-2 I've seen.
   
  And it only costs around $250 for the best options, including shipping. Value-wise it is stunning too.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> That was the goal as I mostly listen to these 2 at home lately


 


  Yeah. I'll need to see if DHX sells a combo for the HD650 and the Q701. Two headphones that I'll be using on my main rig as well.


----------



## scootermafia

It is indeed possible to have a single ended K702 cable as a starting point and then use a male 3 pin mini xlr adapter to go to other single ended headphones from there, now that you mention it.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> It is indeed possible to have a single ended K702 cable as a starting point and then use a male 3 pin mini xlr adapter to go to other single ended headphones from there, now that you mention it.


 


  Ah, very nice indeed. If I do go for a HD650 cable (and I know I will), then I'll have to look into it. Can you have a single ended mini XLR (K702 Cable) connect to two other mini XLR's that are connected to HD650 terminations?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Ah, very nice indeed. If I do go for a HD650 cable (and I know I will), then I'll have to look into it. Can you have a single ended mini XLR (K702 Cable) connect to two other mini XLR's that are connected to HD650 terminations?


 

 Anything is possibly when your asking a custom cable maker


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Ah, very nice indeed. If I do go for a HD650 cable (and I know I will), then I'll have to look into it. Can you have a single ended mini XLR (K702 Cable) connect to two other mini XLR's that are connected to HD650 terminations?


 

  
  It would have a male mini XLR 3 pin, that had coming out of it two earcup wire pairs going to HD650 plugs.  So, it would be v-shaped.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Anything is possibly when your asking a custom cable maker


 


  Anything is possible when your man smells like me.  I'm on a horse.


----------



## ianmedium

Just doing some more back to back with the Toxic cables VS TWag V2. The toxics now have around 200 hours on them, the TWag's over a thousand. Dave Brubecks Take five the music.

Firstly the soundstage and placement of the instruments in the acoustic.
The Toxic offers a wider soundstage and better instrument placement I feel over the Twag. I have listened to this track more times than I care to remember both with speakers and headphones. The toxic's give me more of a sense of out of the head. It feels a bit more like listening to speakers the way the instruments are separated, whereas the TWag gives a more in the head feel to these old ears and grey cells!

Now the Toxic has more hours on it the details are coming through more. When I first listened to them but they were more polite, now they are making themselves felt more but the funny thing is, unlike the TWag they still do not force it upon me. It has gone from a polite suggestion to a more commanding one but with a gentle hand if that makes sense!

Double bass also has more texture to it with the silver/gold combo and sax is more reedy but not shouty. The TWag has more shout and less reediness to my ears. The TWag to my ears is a much brighter cable and I would think that if your system feels a little dull it might be a good choice. If your system is fairly well balanced though I would go for the toxic Silver Poison.

Snap and attack of drums is very good with the TWag but again, a little tiring on the ears where as with the silver poison the snap and attack is there but you are left in no doubt that it is sticks hitting skin, there is an organic feel added with this cable.

I think, at this stage with still more burn in on the silver poison to go (Frank at Toxic feels they really come on song after 300 hours) the sound can be summed up as organic, textured, very slightly smooth and detailed.

I am off to the mountains for ten days at the end of this week, ten days of peace and quiet and I shall be doing a much more in depth review after that Vacation as I will have had more time to compare both.

So far, for my listening preferences which is a more natural and textural feel the silver poisons lead over the TWag and the gap seems to be widening.

Hope that helps anyone out there looking for cables.

Oh yes. the system is in my signature but I will repeat it here. CLAS/Classic running lossless files, RSA SR71-B amp, silver interconnects, LCD2 Rev1 transitional model running balanced.


----------



## Jalo

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Just doing some more back to back with the Toxic cables VS TWag V2. The toxics now have around 200 hours on them, the TWag's over a thousand. Dave Brubecks Take five the music.
> Firstly the soundstage and placement of the instruments in the acoustic.
> The Toxic offers a wider soundstage and better instrument placement I feel over the Twag. I have listened to this track more times than I care to remember both with speakers and headphones. The toxic's give me more of a sense of out of the head. It feels a bit more like listening to speakers the way the instruments are separated, whereas the TWag gives a more in the head feel to these old ears and grey cells!
> Now the Toxic has more hours on it the details are coming through more. When I first listened to them but they were more polite, now they are making themselves felt more but the funny thing is, unlike the TWag they still do not force it upon me. It has gone from a polite suggestion to a more commanding one but with a gentle hand if that makes sense!
> ...


 
   
  Ian, I have essentially the same portable setup as yours with the exception of an addition of a DB1 in the mix making it a through and through balance operation.  So I can say I am familiar with the sound that you are describing.
   
  In terms of silver cable, I have both the Twag v1 and v2 and yes Craig had indicated to me that the burn in times can take somewhere from 500 to 1000 hours.  A 1000 hours, that is a few life time for most of my portable gears and many of them do not even reach that level before they get sold off from being upgraded.  Whether this is true or not I cannot say definitively because my Twag did not reach more than 400 to 500 hours before it was replaced by the Crystal Piccolino.  Like your Toxic silver, the Piccolino is also a gold/silver mix which I have used for a little over a year now for my JH13.  And recently I have acquired a piccolino cable for my LCD v1 and HD800, and without any burn in I immediately recognized the Piccolino sound signature which is very similar to my JH13 Piccolino that I have used for the past year.  Surprisingly I can say that the Piccolino need very little burn in--a belief that I held for cable until the piccolino.  Another belief which I held about cable was also broken by the piccolino has to do with the awg.  I always thought the heavier the gauge the better, but the Piccolino breaks that belief by producing beautiful sound with about six very fine 32 awg silver strands.  I am interested to compare the Toxic Silver to the Piccolino if I have the chance.  But one thing is for sure, the piccolino as a silver cable does not have any harshness or brightness to it like the TWag.


----------



## WarriorAnt

1000 hours of burn in. Good heavens...


----------



## ianmedium

warriorant said:


> 1000 hours of burn in. Good heavens...




Well, more like a thousand hours of listening and burn in, but I agree, that is one hell of a lot of listening and burn in!


----------



## ianmedium

jalo said:


> Ian, I have essentially the same portable setup as yours with the exception of an addition of a DB1 in the mix making it a through and through balance operation.  So I can say I am familiar with the sound that you are describing.
> 
> In terms of silver cable, I have both the Twag v1 and v2 and yes Craig had indicated to me that the burn in times can take somewhere from 500 to 1000 hours.  A 1000 hours, that is a few life time for most of my portable gears and many of them do not even reach that level before they get sold off from being upgraded.  Whether this is true or not I cannot say definitively because my Twag did not reach more than 400 to 500 hours before it was replaced by the Crystal Piccolino.  Like your Toxic silver, the Piccolino is also a gold/silver mix which I have used for a little over a year now for my JH13.  And recently I have acquired a piccolino cable for my LCD v1 and HD800, and without any burn in I immediately recognized the Piccolino sound signature which is very similar to my JH13 Piccolino that I have used for the past year.  Surprisingly I can say that the Piccolino need very little burn in--a belief that I held for cable until the piccolino.  Another belief which I held about cable was also broken by the piccolino has to do with the awg.  I always thought the heavier the gauge the better, but the Piccolino breaks that belief by producing beautiful sound with about six very fine 32 awg silver strands.  I am interested to compare the Toxic Silver to the Piccolino if I have the chance.  But one thing is for sure, the piccolino as a silver cable does not have any harshness or brightness to it like the TWag.




Jalo, it is nice to hear someone who has the piccolino, i had no idea it has a similar construction to the toxic though the toxic is 24awg.

I wish you were near where I live I would be more than happy for you to have a listen with the Toxic. It is nice to know there are similarities in sound signature between the two.

I will write more about how much more burn in affects the toxic after I come back from my Christmas vacation. I plan to do a lot of listening during that vacation so I will see if the toxic is coming to the end of the burn in period.

I have heard wonderful things about the piccolino cable, I would love to know more thoughts you have on it and it's strengths for you.


----------



## Argo Duck

Cheers ianmedium & SpudHarris 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (GG not far behind I imagine)
   
  Speaking of on topic, I reported receiving my first cable from Q-Audio a few weeks ago. I have not had, and will not have, opportunity to 'review' it for a while, but suffice to say it is not only beautiful looking but really does seem to have improved the sound.
   
  This is food for thought for me, having spent (I regret) some time in the sound-science forums. Some years ago I did quite a lot of work with non-linear simulations. To cut a long story short these, like the butterfly effect famous from chaos-theory, produce large effects from tiny differences given the right conditions. I can't at this moment imagine a dynamical model (with feedback) that corresponds to recorded music, sound equipment and a listener. But I cannot resist drawing the comparison.
   
  Anyway, this is itself in danger of going off-topic...


----------



## Girls Generation

About to receive my DHC cable today. I wish I had the Q and Norn with me to compare.


----------



## googleli

I think the Piccolino cable is more expensive than the LCD2 itself...


----------



## Girls Generation

True, but I've heard it myself and it is pretty outstanding. I think it's just a matter of whether the cost is justifiable to the person. However, might I point out that some regular copper cables are outrageously marked up as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> I think the Piccolino cable is more expensive than the LCD2 itself...


----------



## scootermafia

You would be correct, Sir Googleli.  
   
  If you ever want to buy the Piccolino wire from Crystal, besides proving to them you're a legit MOT, it's 180 bucks US per meter (which consists of two coaxial wires) so you need 2 meters of it to make a 2 meter headphone cable.  If your cable is dual-balanced - since you can't really use Piccolino coax balanced according to the company - then you have to use twice as much of the stuff.  So 720 bucks, wholesale cost of just the wire, to get it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> You would be correct, Sir Googleli.
> 
> If you ever want to buy the Piccolino wire from Crystal, besides proving to them you're a legit MOT, it's 180 bucks US per meter (which consists of two coaxial wires) so you need 2 meters of it to make a 2 meter headphone cable.  If your cable is dual-balanced - since you can't really use Piccolino coax balanced according to the company - then you have to use twice as much of the stuff.  So 720 bucks, wholesale cost of just the wire, to get it.


 


  what makes it so expensive?


----------



## scootermafia

Several possibilities:
   
  1) High content of gold
  2) It wasn't cheap to develop
  3) It isn't cheap to manufacture in house
  4) It's unique, so they can charge what they want to for it
  5) High prices connote high worth

 It is an impressively made wire.  However it doesn't get any more expensive to work with than Piccolino, or any more challenging to strip.  This is why only Jaben has built a business around it, it is intimidatingly costly.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Several possibilities:
> 
> 1) High content of gold
> 2) It wasn't cheap to develop
> ...


 

 Is there enough demand for this wire to keep the company in business?   Seems like such a high price item that not too many people are going to be purchasing it for headphones, is it used in other electronics?


----------



## ianmedium

warriorant said:


> Is there enough demand for this wire to keep the company in business?   Seems like such a high price item that not too many people are going to be purchasing it for headphones, is it used in other electronics?




I suppose when you think about it this headphone hobby of ours and all that comes with it, amps, DAP's or other sources is still relatively cheap compared to Home speaker systems or other hobbies.

Think, if you wanted the finest car made, easily it tops a million now, or art, watches or other such things. It makes eight or nine hundred dollars seem a bargain for obtaining wonderful sound.

I have a friend who has spent similar amounts on designer cotton shirts!

I would love to try the piccolino at some point but I think what I have now may come closer to it than some of the other stuff out there.


----------



## Girls Generation

I'm pretty sure the Piccolino is just one of Crystal's many products, if I'm not mistaken.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Is there enough demand for this wire to keep the company in business?   Seems like such a high price item that not too many people are going to be purchasing it for headphones, is it used in other electronics?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I'm pretty sure the Piccolino is just one of Crystal's many products, if I'm not mistaken.


 

 Yup.
   
  se


----------



## Waazup

http://www.crystalcable.com/
   
  Google search also shows some of their cables selling for 8000euro+.


----------



## Girls Generation

I really wonder what kind of customer base they have. Bill Gates for one?


----------



## Waazup

I don't believe you need to be rich to afford such cables, anyone with a decent paid job with a passion for audio and quality cables would buy them.
  My brothers speaker set up has around £20,000 worth of cables on it.


----------



## ianmedium

Completely agree waazup! As I said in my previous post this hobby could actually be deemed a bargain at the higher end of the scale!


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Completely agree waazup! As I said in my previous post this hobby could actually be deemed a bargain at the higher end of the scale!


 


 Look at those who collect watches for one with prices of £50'000+ on some of them so this hobby is quite cheap, the average person can buy the STAX 009 with a couple of months pay while to buy a top of the line Rolex it would take a several years pay.


----------



## Girls Generation

It might not really be a "bargain" to some iBuds users out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Completely agree waazup! As I said in my previous post this hobby could actually be deemed a bargain at the higher end of the scale!


----------



## ianmedium

Heck, think about it, one could have the LCD3 and a top of the range amp for the price of a really boring second hand bland mobile car! I know which I would rather have and you can be sure that in 5 years time if you need to sell either you would pretty much get what you paid for the amp and headphone where as a car of that price would probably be fit for only scrap!


----------



## scootermafia

Well, many see headphones as a "high value" application.  You can get sound that costs a whole lot less than certain speaker setups, while maintaining portability.  Things get a lot more expensive with a full fledged speaker setup, although plenty of speaker setups are high value too.
   
  Crystal has a massive product line that's intended for full size headphone setups, although you can certainly have fun hacking and slashing their offerings into headphone cables or using their interconnects for the rest of your headphone setup.  They don't target headphones the way Moon or ALO do though.


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> It might not really be a "bargain" to some iBuds users out there.


 


 The amount you spent on your new DHC cable would be silly to some, i'm looking forward to your first impressions and some pictures of the cable with the phones, i'm still trying to make up my mind on which cable to get and i would like the cable to actually look nice also with the phones so pictures would be appreciated.


----------



## mwilson

£50,000 isn't considered overly expensive as far as watches go. Rolex is a good mid-tier performer, but not really high end. Ianmedium is right, this hobby is cheap next to others. 
   
  Quote: 





waazup said:


> Look at those who collect watches for one with prices of £50'000+ on some of them so this hobby is quite cheap, the average person can buy the STAX 009 with a couple of months pay while to buy a top of the line Rolex it would take a several years pay.


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Well, many see headphones as a "high value" application.  You can get sound that costs a whole lot less than certain speaker setups, while maintaining portability.  Things get a lot more expensive with a full fledged speaker setup, although plenty of speaker setups are high value too.
> 
> Crystal has a massive product line that's intended for full size headphone setups, although you can certainly have fun hacking and slashing their offerings into headphone cables or using their interconnects for the rest of your headphone setup.  They don't target headphones the way *Moon* *or ALO* do though.


 
  Or yourself


----------



## Girls Generation

That's true. Heck this whole hobby may be silly to most of the people out there 
  I'll post some pictures of the DHC cable up when Canada Post finally decides to process the package, 8 hours after the original estimated time. 
  Meanwhile, what to do with this annoying stock cable getting in the way of everything? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





waazup said:


> The amount you spent on your new DHC cable would be silly to some, i'm looking forward to your first impressions and some pictures of the cable with the phones, i'm still trying to make up my mind on which cable to get and i would like the cable to actually look nice also with the phones so pictures would be appreciated.


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That's true. Heck this whole hobby may be silly to most of the people out there
> I'll post some pictures of the DHC cable up when Canada Post finally decides to process the package, 8 hours after the original estimated time.
> Meanwhile, what to do with this annoying stock cable getting in the way of everything?


 

 Looking forward to it.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





waazup said:


> Or yourself


 


  As per the rules of the Head-fi User Agreement, I do not exist.  Who's me?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> That's true. Heck this whole hobby may be silly to most of the people out there
> I'll post some pictures of the DHC cable up when Canada Post finally decides to process the package, 8 hours after the original estimated time.
> Meanwhile, what to do with this annoying stock cable getting in the way of everything?


 

 What DHC cable are you getting? He sure does make some great cables
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also just use that stock cable and make a little Christmas ornimate for the CPS when he finally delivers it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> As per the rules of the Head-fi User Agreement, I do not exist.  Who's me?


 

 It figures something is trying to make you hide


----------



## ianmedium

Wow. Just this evening I reached that moment! Everything gelled tonight, the whole lot has come together, I think the burn in of the amp and cable is done, not sure how I know that but it all just feels perfect to my ears. 

I think the best choice I have made in all the years I have been in this hobby has been the LCD's. For me they are, the perfect headphone!

Patricia Barbers A distortion of love album just sounds sublime!


----------



## Girls Generation

Presenting, the one and only "Double Helix Norse Norn [CLAS] cable" LOL!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You Vancouverians (you, ian) will be seeing my portable gear in January if you're coming to the meet. 
   
  Norn CLAS cable made by DHC
  DHC RS Silver Hirose-Hirose IC
  VH Audio Pulsar Ag coax RCA-RCA made by DHC
  DHC "Hypershort" Hirose-mini adapter
  DHC 6-wire Extremely Compact LCD2 cable


----------



## WNBC

Wow, when you go all out for cables you go all out.......
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Presenting, the one and only "Double Helix Norse Norn [CLAS] cable" LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Girls Generation

Good thing or bad thing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Wow, when you go all out for cables you go all out.......


----------



## WNBC

One can never have enough cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  In the end there will be cockroaches and cables
  Congrats, we want reviews after you've spent some time with them
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Good thing or bad thing?


----------



## scootermafia

GG finally actually buying my cables...took em long enough to figure out what they wanted.


----------



## Girls Generation

What was it, three months?

   
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> GG finally actually buying my cables...took em long enough to figure out what they wanted.


----------



## scootermafia

Yes.
   
  The DHC Norn USB LOD is the gem of the collection though.  GG is quite certain that their iPhone charges faster with it.


----------



## Girls Generation

I swear to God...
  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> GG is quite certain that their iPhone charges faster with it.


 


  Still finding the DHC Norn funny. Sorry Trevor; your cable's excellent!


----------



## scootermafia

Yep, the Norn wire is nice for its intended purpose, but I've yet to see it in a USB cable, until now...and perhaps litz wire, with its reduced AC losses (oh wait, the iPhone is charging with DC, lol) is putting the juice to the iPhone better.


----------



## Waazup

Nice cables, dont really like the brown and clear personally, might consider brown to match the headphones a little.
   
  Scooter, how flexible is the DHC RS OCC Silver Molecule and can i ask what gauge the silver is?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Presenting, the one and only "Double Helix Norse Norn [CLAS] cable" LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I married the wrong girl...


----------



## scootermafia

It's 24awg solid rectangular silver.  It's not especially flexible, but it's less of a bear if you don't put a ton of fancy sleeving on it and stick to soft stuff.  It's ok for travel but best suited for home.
   
  Also, all jokes aside, if people are wondering why the hell I'm working with Norse's wire, it was a one off project I did for fun, all I did was assemble it for GG.


----------



## Waazup

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> It's 24awg solid rectangular silver.  It's not especially flexible, but it's less of a bear if you don't put a ton of fancy sleeving on it and stick to soft stuff.  It's ok for travel but best suited for home.
> 
> Also, all jokes aside, if people are wondering why the hell I'm working with Norse's wire, it was a one off project I did for fun, all I did was assemble it for GG.


 

 Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Girls Generation

With Trevor's permission ofcourse. Thank you Trevor!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> It's 24awg solid rectangular silver.  It's not especially flexible, but it's less of a bear if you don't put a ton of fancy sleeving on it and stick to soft stuff.  It's ok for travel but best suited for home.
> 
> Also, all jokes aside, if people are wondering why the hell I'm working with Norse's wire, it was a one off project I did for fun, all I did was assemble it for GG.


 


  Now now, what if your significant other sees this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I married the wrong girl...


----------



## Jalo

GG, congratulating on the purchase. So when are you sending them my way  or I can have someone picking them up tomorrow


----------



## scootermafia

Yes, now that the shoe is on the other foot...


----------



## SteveM324

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I married the wrong girl...


 

 Not really because you would either have to buy 2 of everything or fight her off....  Then their would always be fights about what to upgrade next... No I'm perfectly fine with the fact that my wife couldn't care less about this hobby of mine.


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 LOL. My wife likes good music and has really good ears too, but she's content to leave all technicalities to me and no longer asks questions about the cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Congratulations GG on the new cables, and ianmedium on getting to such a good space with your system!


----------



## nytryder7

Subscribed, despite advise from my accountant.


----------



## scootermafia

I can recommend a new accountant to you, but he probably won't give you very good financial advice, except to buy more cables 
  :-D


----------



## nytryder7

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I can recommend a new accountant to you, but he probably won't give you very good financial advice, except to buy more cables
> :-D


 


  Just like that voice in the back of my head.....


----------



## googleli

I now use the ALO Reference 16 with the LCD3 and it is still too early to compare it with my Norse Litz cable since burn in time is limited, as my LF is a tube amp so I can only burn in the rig when I am in office. To reach 1000 hours I probably need to wait until next summer...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


googleli said:


> I now use the ALO Reference 16 with the LCD3 and it is still too early to compare it with my Norse Litz cable since burn in time is limited, as my LF is a tube amp so I can only burn in the rig when I am in office. To reach 1000 hours I probably need to wait until next summer...


 
  Could you post some pictures of the ALO cable/LCD-3?  If you have, I may have missed them.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## scootermafia

You could get an Audiodharma cable cooker.  It cooked my cables in 2 days when I borrowed one.  You just need RCA to male mini XLR adapters to burn in the LCD2 cables.


----------



## googleli

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> You could get an Audiodharma cable cooker.  It cooked my cables in 2 days when I borrowed one.  You just need RCA to male mini XLR adapters to burn in the LCD2 cables.


 
   
  Thanks dude, I will check it out.
  
   


  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Could you post some pictures of the ALO cable/LCD-3?  If you have, I may have missed them.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


 


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/567748/cavalli-audio-liquid-fire/555


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





googleli said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/567748/cavalli-audio-liquid-fire/555


 
  Thanks!  It looks pretty cool!  but how is the flexibility?  Or is that not an issue for you?  NVM, I saw your flexibility comment in follow-on post...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## googleli

It is not as flexible as the Litz but much more flexible and lighter than the previous Norse cable. About at par with stock cable I'd say, and definitely more flexible than the 8 wire version. They use a different coating for the 16 wire.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





googleli said:


> It is not as flexible as the Litz but much more flexible and lighter than the previous Norse cable. About at par with stock cable I'd say, and definitely more flexible than the 8 wire version. They use a different coating for the 16 wire.


 
  It's good the cable makers are taking flexibility into consideration when designing these newer cables...
  I'd love to try the ALO 16-wire some day...once my bank account recovers from all my other Head-Fi expenditures...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Girls Generation

http://global.ebay.com/Audeze-LCD2-8ft-8-wire-18AWG-Retangular-Pure-OCC-Silver/120832427026/item
   
   
  Someone should jump on this bargain... 
  I've been researching on the RS Silver for months now and I've been told what 18awg rectangular silver costs at wholesale. It would cost around $2000 just in wire to DIY this cable, and that's without the 1% gold! 
  Toxic is practically paying you to buy it!


----------



## MorbidToaster

That's a pretty cable. It looks huge though. lol


----------



## scootermafia

I know 18awg OCC silver rectangular wire with gold sounds pretty hard to fathom, but I had a chat with Frank.  He's very nice and showed me a pic of the wire, so it is what it is.  
   
  Also, based on my knowledge of cables, you're basically being paid to buy this cable.  So, have at it!


----------



## ianmedium

Excellent. Frank is a great guy to deal with and I love the sound his cable contributes to my set up. As I have said before. I think if your set up is a little heavy or dark sounding pure silver may be the way to go, likewise if it is overly bright pure copper might be the best choice. The thing I like about this new cable from Frank is it seems to breach the gap between where there is a nice balanced set up.

I am really enjoying that I am getting the detail but at the same time the smoothness and organic feel and having tried numerous combinations of cable material over the years this is the first for me that gives me all that I want.

At the end of the day I think the choice is down to ones own personal preferences and this cable ticks all my boxes!


----------



## HarryPotter

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> http://global.ebay.com/Audeze-LCD2-8ft-8-wire-18AWG-Retangular-Pure-OCC-Silver/120832427026/item
> 
> 
> Someone should jump on this bargain...
> ...


 

 18gauge 4N standard round silver comes in at $4, a 8feet cable would require 64feet which would come to $256 and i believe rectangular wire depending on depth could contain less then half the amount in weight of round wire or less so that would be $128 and i highly doubt that just because it is occ silver it would be 16x the cost.
  The gold content would likely ad another $40 to the cost.
  I got my figures from a silver dealer who also stated silver over 5N does not exist and would cut off his right arm if anyone could prove with scientific tests that they have silver over 5N purity.


----------



## nytryder7

Finally stopped dipping just my toe in the water. Q-cables ordered! Looking forward to receiving them by huh..... next Christmas? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All in.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





nytryder7 said:


> Looking forward to receiving them by huh..... next Christmas?


 

 You could have them tomorrow morning if you'd like.
   
  Don't think you'd like to see the bill though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

Well 4N-5N silver stock costs more, the OCC process costs more, the FEP teflon insulation costs extra, and processing it as a rectangle shape costs extra...but yeah melting it down wouldn't pay all that well...it's still a very very good buy.


----------



## HarryPotter

$650 is hugely overpriced for any cable, $400 would be more realistic.
  As for for processing it as retangle silver, i was told the cost would be very similar to standard wire. Maybe just a little more.
  I might actually buy one at these prices when someone comes up with a hexagon version.
   
  Would really like to see proof that these so called 7N silver even exists.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





nytryder7 said:


> Finally stopped dipping just my toe in the water. Q-cables ordered! Looking forward to receiving them by huh..... next Christmas?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Awesome. I've absolutely fallen in love with Q's cables.


----------



## scootermafia

Well, 8N purity is possible with copper, whether or not you feel it makes any difference...only Acrolink has access to this metal as far as I know, and they can certify it with very specialized equipment - namely, Gd-MS (glow discharge mass spectrometry).  Basically you measure for everything but the copper and see how much ppm there is for the various possible impurities.  Nikko, a specialized metals provider, is where they get this 8N copper - usually only used in the semiconductor industry.  Most OCC places are using 5N, and the vast majority of tests only go up to 4N.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I have no experience with silver cables so I am curios about them.  Does a silver cable brighten the top end?  If so why and how.   Is it because silver is superior to copper in terms of upper region transmission and copper does not allow high frequencies to transmit as well and because of this restricts the upper regions?  Or does silver add a coloring of its own to the signal which brightens the upper regions.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Does a silver cable brighten the top end?


 
   
  There's no earthly reason for it to do so.
   
  Quote: 





> Is it because silver is superior to copper in terms of upper region transmission and copper does not allow high frequencies to transmit as well and because of this restricts the upper regions?


 
   
  If anything it would tend to be the opposite.
   
  Since silver's slightly more conductive than copper, skin effect would be slightly worse with silver than with copper, so all else being equal, solver would roll off the highs sooner than copper.
   
  se


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> There's no earthly reason for it to do so.
> 
> 
> If anything it would tend to be the opposite.
> ...


 

 Steve...skin effect at even 20kHz is negligible.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Steve...skin effect at even 20kHz is negligible.


 

 I never said otherwise. Only pointing out that with respect to high frequency roll off and skin effect, silver would roll off at a lower frequency than copper.
   
  se


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have no experience with silver cables so I am curios about them.  Does a silver cable brighten the top end?  If so why and how.   Is it because silver is superior to copper in terms of upper region transmission and copper does not allow high frequencies to transmit as well and because of this restricts the upper regions?  Or does silver add a coloring of its own to the signal which brightens the upper regions.


 


  According to a few people, yes, silver cables are supposed to be a lot brighter. But I'd personally have to hear that to believe it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> According to a few people, yes, silver cables are supposed to be a lot brighter. But I'd personally have to hear that to believe it.


 

  
  I  also have to hear something before I can comment on it.  I find many people in the threads comment on all kinds of things without ever experiencing something and silver cables seem to have this affliction, so I will leave it open.   I am wondering if sometimes upper region transparency often gets confused with brighter rendition.  This leaves me curious if silver cables have more transparency up top than copper.    One thing I do know is that often I will see people who do not own silver cables or have ever tried silver cables say it will brighten your top end and or decrease your bass response.


----------



## ianmedium

I can only speak for what my ears hear but in comparing the TWag V2 to my toxic, TWag being pure silver and the toxic silver and gold I certainly find the TWag bright and edgy sounding compared to the silver gold mix and the stock copper which as a softer sound to my ears.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I  also have to hear something before I can comment on it.  I find many people in the threads comment on all kinds of things without ever experiencing something and silver cables seem to have this affliction, so I will leave it open.   I am wondering if sometimes upper region transparency often gets confused with brighter rendition.  This leaves me curious if silver cables have more transparency up top than copper.    One thing I do know is that often I will see people who do not own silver cables or have ever tried silver cables say it will brighten your top end and or decrease your bass response.


 

 I think I might head down to ALO and see what they're silver cables are like vs. their copper cables. I'm very interested to see how silver performs on something like a dark HD650.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Is ALO doing solid silver? Thought they were using copper and silver plated copper.
   
  se


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Is ALO doing solid silver? Thought they were using copper and silver plated copper.
> 
> se


 

  
  Let me check. Although I'm pretty sure I saw a sliver cable for the HD650 and the LCD-2.
   
  EDIT: Looks like your right, only silver plated and silver coated copper, unfortunately.
   
   
  I did try their copper cable with my HD650's and I must say that it was quite the cable in terms of build quality.


----------



## MorbidToaster

As have I. I'll probably be ordering another one in a few months...Heads up Steve.
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Awesome. I've absolutely fallen in love with Q's cables.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> As have I. I'll probably be ordering another one in a few months...Heads up Steve.


 


  Good for you. I love the Q-Cables. Maybe one day Steve will make a cable for the HD650.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I'd love to see Steve expand a little, too. I see my LCD 2s lasting awhile but I'm also looking at an HD600.
  
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Good for you. I love the Q-Cables. Maybe one day Steve will make a cable for the HD650.


----------



## nytryder7

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> You could have them tomorrow morning if you'd like.
> 
> Don't think you'd like to see the bill though.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, I think I did read once where Santa's last minute addition fees were pretty outrageous!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I'd love to see Steve expand a little, too. I see my LCD 2s lasting awhile but I'm also looking at an HD600.


 

 Same here. If Steve made an HD6XX cable, I might just have to buy one on the spot...


----------



## scootermafia

Steve's deep, abiding hatred of heatshrink will keep him away from Sennheiser, for now...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Steve's deep, abiding hatred of heatshrink will keep him away from Sennheiser, for now...


 


  And the super duper macro connectors.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





nytryder7 said:


> Yes, I think I did read once where Santa's last minute addition fees were pretty outrageous!


 

 Gotta pay for his Ho Ho Ho's somehow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Steve's deep, abiding hatred of heatshrink will keep him away from Sennheiser, for now...


 
   
  It's rather unavoidable in certain situations such as the HE series cables. But I'd do an HD-6xx cable before I'd do an HD-800 cable.
   
  se


----------



## Stevtt

Is that Ho Ho's as in the Hostess variety?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





stevtt said:


> Is that Ho Ho's as in the Hostess variety?


 

 You're a Ho short. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Austin Morrow

steve eddy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why an HD6XX cable before an HD800 cable? Wouldn't the HD800 cable be more popular?


----------



## Girls Generation

I think he means it's more annoying to make, rather than sellability. Plus, he'd be making a HD6XX cable when an order comes in so popularity doesn't matter. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Why an HD6XX cable before an HD800 cable? Wouldn't the HD800 cable be more popular?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I think he means it's more annoying to make, rather than sellability.


 

 Ultimately it's both. My comment had to do with the pain in the ass factor, but I also don't want to do an HD-800 cable because I don't want to increase sales beyond what they are right now.
   
  se


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Ultimately it's both. My comment had to do with the pain in the ass factor, but I also don't want to do an HD-800 cable because I don't want to increase sales beyond what they are right now.
> 
> se


 

 That can't be a bad thing.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Increased sales means increased workload. If you expand too much it becomes a pretty big hassle for unprepared company.
   
  It also means slower turn around on orders.
  
  Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> That can't be a bad thing.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





darknightdk said:


> That can't be a bad thing.


 

 Yes, it can believe it or not. Like when you want to expand the business beyond cables and don't have the time to do the development work.
   
  se


----------



## googleli

Reminds me of my order in the Thunderpants group buy... And my BHSE order...


----------



## scootermafia

This is all true.  More sales would be intolerable right now.  I'm at my limits...me and Steve are not robots and we don't have sweatshops.


----------



## WarriorAnt




----------



## sridhar3

What's the difference between Tiger Woods and Santa Claus?
  Santa Claus stops at three "Ho"s.
   
  We should all coordinate our Q cable orders with eachother, so they all go in at the same time and piss him off.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> What's the difference between Tiger Woods and Santa Claus?
> Santa Claus stops at three "Ho"s.
> 
> We should all coordinate our Q cable orders with eachother, so they all go in at the same time and piss him off.


 

 He stops at 3 "Ho's," because he needs to go put more kids on the naughty list.


----------



## Hennyo

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I think I might head down to ALO and see what they're silver cables are like vs. their copper cables. I'm very interested to see how silver performs on something like a dark HD650.


 

 I can tell you that Silver'd HD 650's are indeed sound to behold. I had them all in a room with everything, including Orpheus's and Omega II's, Lambda and ESP 950. And 3x HD 800's (all with different cables) and two lcd-2's (different cables). One HE-6, T1's, blah, blah, blah.
   
  Yes, Silver'ed HD 650's are really truly amazing. They are able to quite _strongly_ hold their own.
   
  + all the other 'high end' cans that are acclaimed around here. (Pretty much anything you can think of... Utahn's had at this meet. The list got so big I stopped adding gear to it a two weeks before the meet.   Everything was there except the 009.
  Added opinion;
   
  Imo lcd-2 needs Silver, bad... Both variants.. Not to change the sound, it's because it (lcd) hides so many details. Silver may be summarized as 'brighter up top,' (this is a bad way to describe it) but it's simply more detailed throughout the spectrum. Mids - highs especially..


----------



## Austin Morrow

hennyo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So, a silver cable really brightens up a HD650 that much? I know from experience that cables add improvements to the sound, but I'd love to hear how a silver cable makes the HD650 sound so good. Anyone got a silver HD650 cable they would be willing to let me borrow?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I don't like my HD650 at all with the silver cable, I safely put it away. It's personal preference imo


----------



## scootermafia

What kind of silver cable?


----------



## WNBC

Any comparisons that can be made between silver headphone cables and silver interconnects?  I am using the Signal Cable Silver Resolution w/ silver bullets ICs.  Sounding really good with the Schiit Lyr > LCD-2 rev2.  Not any more sibilant than my other copper cables.  Not bright, just right.  Not any more detailed than my copper cables though I will burn in for a while before making any final claims.  Would one expect more of an effect of silver if it is going into the headphones rather than from a connection between a DAC and amp?  Just the curiosity cat.
   
  Quote: 





hennyo said:


> Imo lcd-2 needs Silver, bad... Both variants.. Not to change the sound, it's because it (lcd) hides so many details. Silver may be summarized as 'brighter up top,' (this is a bad way to describe it) but it's simply more detailed throughout the spectrum. Mids - highs especially..


----------



## scootermafia

I have more difficulty evaluating interconnects than headphone cables.


----------



## Hennyo

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> I have more difficulty evaluating interconnects than headphone cables.


 
  x2


----------



## MorbidToaster

You guys suck. I really want to try silver now.


----------



## scootermafia

They're not just for making your LCD-2s sound good...they also ward off vampires.


----------



## WNBC

Hopefully just the male vampires 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

  
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> They're not just for making your LCD-2s sound good...they also ward off vampires.


----------



## googleli

It only wards off male vampires at first, but after 500 hours of burn in it will ward off other vampires as well.


  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Hopefully just the male vampires


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> They're not just for making your LCD-2s sound good...*they also ward off vampires.  *


 


  Actually werewolves I believe.


----------



## Omshallom

Q cables arrived today, so light and beautifully purple. I can't really comment on the sound over the stock cable, as my middle aged ears have taken a good old beating
  as a DJ for many years, and I can't be bothered swapping the cables over and over again.
   
  I have my mobility back at my desk, and the music sounds sweet, as it should with LCD-2 , DACmini and Q cables and that is the main thing.
  Thanks Steve.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





omshallom said:


> Q cables arrived today, so light and beautifully purple. I can't really comment on the sound over the stock cable, as my middle aged ears have taken a good old beating
> as a DJ for many years, and I can't be bothered swapping the cables over and over again.
> 
> I have my mobility back at my desk, and the music sounds sweet, as it should with LCD-2 , DACmini and Q cables and that is the main thing.
> Thanks Steve.


 

 Looking good! congrats!


----------



## googleli

How much are the DHC cables?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





googleli said:


> How much are the DHC cables?


 

 $175.75- 3000. What were you thinking of getting on your cable?


----------



## HarryPotter

Well i have decided to go with Toxic Cables, i went with the Venom 4 which is the 4 wire version of their 8 wire 18gauge retangular  OCC silver cable and it cost considerably less to go with 4 wires instead.
   
  Frank has been kind enough to offer to send me his 8 wire Venom and his 4 wire Poison cable along with another 3 very well known cables from other cable makers to compare.
   
  Will post my thoughts and comparisons when i receive the cables.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





harrypotter said:


> Well i have decided to go with Toxic Cables, i went with the Venom 4 which is the 4 wire version of their 8 wire 18gauge retangular  OCC silver cable and it cost considerably less to go with 4 wires instead.
> 
> Frank has been kind enough to offer to send me his 8 wire Venom and his 4 wire Poison cable along with another 3 very well known cables from other cable makers to compare.
> 
> Will post my thoughts and comparisons when i receive the cables.


 

 looking forward to those impressions.


----------



## ianmedium

Harry, very much looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Venom, I think it too substantial a cable to be able to fit the plug that is needed for my blackbird sadly, is Frank sending you the silver poison as well? It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on it compared to the venom.

I am going to post my extended thoughts on the poison/TWag/stock in the next few days as I have been spending ten days of peace and quiet in the mountains and part of that vacation has been listening to a great deal of music and comparing the cables. Just collating My listening notes now and will post the cable thoughts on this thread and then I'm going to post elswhere my thoughts on my complete set up. Not sure where is best to post that one though, anyone any suggestions?


----------



## WNBC

That is pretty awesome.  You are getting 2 cables for potential purchase and 3 other cables to make comparisons and for context.  Do you live near Toxic Cables?  I can't think of any other cable maker willing to lend out cables for trial or maybe I should just email them directly asking for test cables.  Not saying that would be a good thing for my wallet, I may end up with several cables and still only one headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





harrypotter said:


> Well i have decided to go with Toxic Cables, i went with the Venom 4 which is the 4 wire version of their 8 wire 18gauge retangular  OCC silver cable and it cost considerably less to go with 4 wires instead.
> 
> Frank has been kind enough to offer to send me his 8 wire Venom and his 4 wire Poison cable along with another 3 very well known cables from other cable makers to compare.
> 
> Will post my thoughts and comparisons when i receive the cables.


----------



## ianmedium

WNBC, I have found Frank to be most accommodating . I have seen other companies here doing loaner programmes which I think makes this such a good community to belong to. They don't have to do it but they do and I think that shows a lot of trust in the membership here.


----------



## WNBC

I've been in this headphone hi-fi world for relatively a short amount of time but I have noticed the loaner programs on head-fi for amps and headphones..........and now cables.  That's really great because often it is we read reviews/comments and take the plunge.  So for something that isn't uber expensive like cables it still doesn't have to be buy-try.  Just when I thought I was done tweaking............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> WNBC, I have found Frank to be most accommodating . I have seen other companies here doing loaner programmes which I think makes this such a good community to belong to. They don't have to do it but they do and I think that shows a lot of trust in the membership here.


----------



## nytryder7

Just got the shipping notice. Thanks Steve. Getting excited! Gonna start the new year off jussssss right.


----------



## UbU55

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I  also have to hear something before I can comment on it.  I find many people in the threads comment on all kinds of things without ever experiencing something and silver cables seem to have this affliction, so I will leave it open.   I am wondering if sometimes upper region transparency often gets confused with brighter rendition.  This leaves me curious if silver cables have more transparency up top than copper.    One thing I do know is that often I will see people who do not own silver cables or have ever tried silver cables say it will brighten your top end and or decrease your bass response.


 

 So true, the modern age of audio information.


----------



## ianmedium

warriorant said:


> I  also have to hear something before I can comment on it.  I find many people in the threads comment on all kinds of things without ever experiencing something and silver cables seem to have this affliction, so I will leave it open.   I am wondering if sometimes upper region transparency often gets confused with brighter rendition.  This leaves me curious if silver cables have more transparency up top than copper.    One thing I do know is that often I will see people who do not own silver cables or have ever tried silver cables say it will brighten your top end and or decrease your bass response.




This is very true. i never see the point of being authoritative in ones comments when one has not even heard the thing being talked about!
 There are a few on this forum who do that and it annoys the heck out of me that it is obvious people take their nonsense as if it is real. 

Same thing with equipment lists. If you read those posters list they usually are of biblical proportions, makes one wonder how much they really do own!
Luckily liars fall foul to themselves all the time as lies require vigilance and effort to sustain. All you have to do is read through their posts and you will see themselves trip themselves up and show up their own lies, I have done that with one or two which is why I take no notice of anything they say anymore!

On to the cables though.. I have just got back from holiday where I have spent much of it in the enjoyable endeavour of extended listening of three cables concentrating on two in balanced mode, one pure silver, the other silver and Gold and will post, hopefully before the week is out my thoughts on both. I will say, for me, with my set up as it is the pure silver cable I had to try was a bit too bright for my tastes but the small amount of gold in the other seems to bring a slight copper feel to the picture.

I think though an important factor to include in the silver debate is what equipment is being used in conjunction as it is rarely factored in I feel and is very important in the overall picture.


----------



## FrenchChemist

I have replaced the stock cables of my LCD-3 with Q cables, and though I didn't know what to expect (first experience with rolling cables), after just a few hours I am already shocked by how much they improved my LCD-3 : like a veil has been lifted, and much more (smooth and detailed) treble extension. I finally hear the cymbals as they should sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It's difficult to describe, but now the LCD-3 sounds more involving, the illusion of the music being "there" is much more convincing. Even the bass seems more refined!
   
  Thanks Steve
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Now I understand why some reviewers claimed the LCD-3 are the best headphones to their ears....


----------



## UbU55

Being new here I should mention that I have a pair of Audeze 2v2 coming, to keep peace in our home for occasional late night listening I think I made a good choice of head phones.
   
  Initially what caught my attention with this topic is recommendations for a better cable then Audeze supplies with their products and with over 1800 replies to this thread so far the search is ongoing for some.
  Wire can and will make a difference in many cases however it's only a fraction of the equation however I'll follow what is to be said, look forward to your thoughts Ianmedium.
  Forgive me if I missed this, I skipped over portions of this thread,  has anyone explained here what the sonic draw backs are using the supplied Audeze cable?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ubu55 said:


> Being new here I should mention that I have a pair of Audeze 2v2 coming, to keep peace in our home for occasional late night listening I think I made a good choice of head phones.
> 
> Initially what caught my attention with this topic is recommendations for a better cable then Audeze supplies with their products and with over 1800 replies to this thread so far the search is ongoing for some.
> Wire can and will make a difference in many cases however it's only a fraction of the equation however I'll follow what is to be said, look forward to your thoughts Ianmedium.
> Forgive me if I missed this, I skipped over portions of this thread,  has anyone explained here what the sonic draw backs are using the supplied Audeze cable?


 

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/q-cables/reviews/5488
   
  Sent you a PM.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





harrypotter said:


> Well i have decided to go with Toxic Cables, i went with the Venom 4 which is the 4 wire version of their 8 wire 18gauge retangular  OCC silver cable and it cost considerably less to go with 4 wires instead.
> 
> Frank has been kind enough to offer to send me his 8 wire Venom and his 4 wire Poison cable along with another 3 very well known cables from other cable makers to compare.
> 
> Will post my thoughts and comparisons when i receive the cables.


 

 has your cable arrived yet?
  i would love to here some impressions, that 8 wire 18AWG Rectangular Pure OCC Silver looks very nice!


----------



## UbU55

WarriorAnt
   
  Thanks for the link , a review well done.


----------



## Girls Generation

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Useless%20off-topic%20babbling



Reading some people's comments, it seems to me that they are slightly confused as to what a public forum and internet is. These people act as if they have some sort of special ability, that they just are completely sure about their faulty assumptions, and they lose themselves in their own accusations and slander; in the end, to most who read these people's posts, these people look utterly foolish and immature, lacking the ability to think on a mature level, without a plethora of emotion, and refrain from submitting vicious posts that are of absolute no help to the community. I would like to tell these fun people simply to quit being so "nosy" and mind your own gear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I believe it's one thing to scold and disregard those who comment elaborately on gear they do not have, and an entirely different thing to accuse people of lying, making a bold assumption that they do not own any gear they've listed, and continuously berate and victimize these targets, all from reading some 'posts' that these poor victims have made, in a public online discussion forum.


   
   
   
On topic: I'm still assessing the DHC 6-wire cable, but Canada Post is having some extremely long delays so I have not yet received the PB2 to use it with, and headphone out doesn't do it or the LCD2 justice. I can comment on the ergonomics of the cable: I've borrowed the Q-Audio cable, I own a bit of the Norn, and it seems like I much prefer the DHC over the two litz; I can't really imagine myself with the cotton. The DHC cable is just as light, it feels like I'm using no cables at all. It also is very compact and small, similar to the Q and Norn. However, the DHC has a natural coil, maybe because of the spool it came from, and so it coils on its own when not in use or close to source, and it doesn't flop everywhere like the litz cables do. Aka, you don't run the risk of running over your cables with your chair.. I'm completely satisfied, and surprised, by the ergonomics of the DHC 6-wire. The other cables I've tried: The weight and size of the ChainMail is just outrageous. The Piccolino has a slightly tacky Teflon sleeving, and there is some bulk to it so it does not score points for ergonomics (though the sound is spectacular in my opinion).
   
Thank you, Peter.


----------



## scootermafia

No need to be defensive now, everyone knows you've got gear from that last pic you posted.
   
  Indeed, the spool the wire comes on puts a bit of a coil on the wire.  Stretching the cable out and then laying into it with a heat gun, then letting it cool, can take the coil out, but it does make it easier to roll up.


----------



## ianmedium

As promised more of my thoughts on the Toxic Cables silver poison balanced headphone cable. I have now spent a great many hours listening to this cable and also comparing it to the TWag V2 silver cable.
As always, these are just my thoughts, they are not meant to convey right or wrong, just my feelings and experiences. I encourage anyone reading them to balance them out by reading the great many other reviews of cables for the LCD2 on this thread. That way you can come to much stronger conclusions about what cable may be best for you.

If possible try to hear the cables before you buy. I know that can be difficult but it is not impossible. I am very thankful to my friend here who let me have an extended loan of the TWagV2 so that I could not only compare but also end up with the best cable for my tastes.

The system used to do the review is my CLAS/Classic, RSA SR71-B, LCD2 Rev1 Transitional model. I am very keen on emphasizing the details of my LCD's as there are not many of those models that received much tighter testing controls and driver matching than the previous Rev1's. These are the few that came out in the three weeks between the end of the Rev1 and the beginning of the Rev2. 

The TWag has over a 1000 hours on it so is fully burned in and by the end of my comparison the Toxic has well over 200 hours on it. Likewise the Blackbird has a similar amount of hours in balanced mode as it came at the same time as the cable.

I was going to include single ended test but it would not be fair on the TWag as the adaptor cable I have is the same silver/Gold cable used in the Silver poison so would not be a fair test. So this is a balanced only comparison.

I prefer a slightly "warmer" sound to my music. I feel my system is fairly balanced in tonality so it shows very clearly the differences between cables.

I am not sure about other pure silver cables but my findings with the TWag were that is has great PRaT as well as detail and speed. It does this though with emotion taking a back seat. I think if you have a "darker" sounding system this might balance it out so that there is warmth but also detail. I found the TWag to be tiring to listen to for extended periods. The details were intoxicating but at the expense of listener fatigue, in fact on certain tracks I could feel myself becoming annoyed and wishing the track was over!

I am not slating the TWag, it is a fine cable, just not to my taste and I think in a fairly well balanced system it emphasizes a little too much the details. It was all but impossible to listen to lesser quality recordings as I just found them un-involving and tiring to listen to the whole album through. To me, it made the LCD's sound too much like the HD800's which I was not keen on as I felt un involved with the music.

I think my experience really emphasizes how important the matching of equipment is on producing the sound that appeals the most to the listener. With the TWag I felt highs became grainy, the bass though tight and controlled lacked emotion to these ears. Female vocals were a little brittle and lacked emotion in my system. The overall effect of the TWag V2 cable in my system was to make it more analytical and less emotional. Personally I would trade emotion over analysis any day when it comes to listening to music for pleasure.

Now on to the Toxic Silver Poison. This cable is silver strand but with 1% gold content. I have no idea of the alchemy of this but the gold does make a difference to these ears.

So, what does the Gold content bring to the table. Well, Firstly it is not like silver plated copper which I have tried before, though to be fair not in this system and not balanced. To my ears what this cable brings to the table is a more refined feeling, the details are not lessened it is just that they are not forced upon one. With female vocals the experience becomes inviting, one feels the emotion more, again. The detail of breath and movement around the mike is still there it is just that it does not steal the show.

The creaminess that a lot of us LCD users love so much is there in bucket loads but the details have increased. Most importantly is the mid range. Over stock there is a noticeable bringing forth the mid range but not at the expense of overpowering. I do want to say that those these things are noticeable they are not to the level where if you went from stock copper to this cable you would go, WOW! What a difference.

It is far more subtle than that but the allure creeps up on one to the point where going back is not an option. However. If you are happy with the stock cable and want a drastic feeling of change in sound the TWag would be more what your looking for I feel.

The silver poison to my ears is about subtle the nuances in music. It plays music so well at much lower levels. I listen to music with the silver poison at one or two notches lower than with the stock cable or the TWag. Stock needs the boost to get the emotion and detail going and same with the TWag for me though of course then the experience becomes tiresome with the TWag.

Listening to Patricia Barbers Summertime from the A Distortion of Love album one can just fall into the music with the Silver poison, be absorbed into the delicacy of the track and the rhythmic flow of Patricia's voice as it goes up and down the notes. With the TWag the symbols became harsher to my ears and her voice became more grainy. With the Silver poison the music is presented as a whole, there is creaminess, but detail and more importantly emotion.

You wont like the silver poison if subtly is not your thing, you wont like it if you like "in your face" presentation. However, if your perception and reception of music is similar to mine you will just absorb the musical experience as a whole and find yourself listening to track after track and before you know it the battery has run dry in the CLAS/Classic!

To summarize my experience I will say this. I have been gradually going through components building a system that brings me what I find to be the best listening experience which for me means being able to listen for hours on end to all kinds of music, good or bad quality recordings included. I came to the conclusion that though I love detail I do not like it at the expense of being able to listen to album after album and increase my relaxed state. I like a balanced sound with neither too much bass or treble. I guess in truth many would find my tastes boring as I do not like to emphasize but more come to a cohesive whole so as to experience the full experience the artist intended. I feel that the final part for me in giving me a replay system that would achieve that has been fulfilled by the addition of the silver poison.

Is it a perfect cable? Of course not, there is no such thing and I am sure to those who crave the last ounce of detail you might be better off looking toward TWag or other pure silver cables. Likewise if your system is overly bright you may want to go the pure copper route and the Silver poison my be too smooth for you.

But for my tastes which are a wide range of music (excluding any form of Metal, modern R'n B or overly processed pop) including Opera, Jazz, Rock and classical both grand symphonies and delicate quartets where I wish to feel the emotion and be able to listen hours on end at lower volumes and yet still feel like I am getting the whole experience this cable ticks all my boxes and brings together as a whole what I have wanted from my system.

Once again. These are just my personal observations. I am not saying the TWag is a bad cable and the Toxic a better one. They just present music in different ways and in this case the Silver poison for me is the better cable.

We are so lucky in this hobby to have a small band of independent cable makers out there who can tailor to our own specific needs the exact sound which draws us into the music. For some the enjoyment comes from great detail, for others it is bass and for folks like me it is a more relaxed approach, no one is wrong, just different which is what makes this hobby so satisfying I believe.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Thanks for the write up.  what is the website for the Toxic Cables?  I'm interested in some silver/gold interconnects.


----------



## ianmedium

Thanks so much WA!


----------



## WarriorAnt

I know this sounds crazy but recently I was painting and I had to take off my wedding ring and accidentally dropped it on the tile floor.  I never dropped it before and the ringing sound the gold ring made was very warm and pleasant.  I got very interested and started dropping other metals on the tile floor to listen to them including copper and silver rings my wife collects and some other metals.  The gold ring made the best sound.  Call me crazy i'm used to it.


----------



## HK_sends

Wow!  Excellent comparison!  I have mostly been a pure copper fan, but I do appreciate the subtleties that you describe with the Toxic Cables.  I am like you (if I understood correctly), preferring the ability to sit and listen to all kinds of music for long periods instead of having to glean ever bit of detail out of a song.  I just may have to look into picking my Poison...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


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## ianmedium

WA..Ah ha! You have just described what I felt the differences were to a T!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know this sounds crazy but recently I was painting and I had to take off my wedding ring and accidentally dropped it on the tile floor.  I never dropped it before and the ringing sound the gold ring made was very warm and pleasant.  I got very interested and started dropping other metals on the tile floor to listen to them including copper and silver rings my wife collects and some other metals.  The gold ring made the best sound.  Call me crazy i'm used to it.


 
  I hope she was away from home at the time and that you could buff out the scratches on the rings before she got back...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ianmedium

hk_sends said:


> Wow!  Excellent comparison!  I have mostly been a pure copper fan, but I do appreciate the subtleties that you describe with the Toxic Cables.  I am like you (if I understood correctly), preferring the ability to sit and listen to all kinds of music for long periods instead of having to glean ever bit of detail out of a song.  I just may have to look into picking my Poison...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Thanks HK, I wish you were close by you could listen for yourself. I think an important thing to emphasize is that there seems to be no graininess or roughness with the Toxic cable, it is smooth but not smothering if you know what I mean!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Thanks HK, I wish you were close by you could listen for yourself. I think an important thing to emphasize is that there seems to be no graininess or roughness with the Toxic cable, it is smooth but not smothering if you know what I mean!


 
  I understand exactly!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know this sounds crazy but recently I was painting and I had to take off my wedding ring and accidentally dropped it on the tile floor.  I never dropped it before and the ringing sound the gold ring made was very warm and pleasant.  I got very interested and started dropping other metals on the tile floor to listen to them including copper and silver rings my wife collects and some other metals.  The gold ring made the best sound.  Call me crazy i'm used to it.


 


  ......yeah...definately crazy...


----------



## MorbidToaster

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know this sounds crazy but recently I was painting and I had to take off my wedding ring and accidentally dropped it on the tile floor.  I never dropped it before and the ringing sound the gold ring made was very warm and pleasant.  I got very interested and started dropping other metals on the tile floor to listen to them including copper and silver rings my wife collects and some other metals.  The gold ring made the best sound.  Call me crazy i'm used to it.


----------



## HarryPotter

I received 7 cables from Toxic cables last week and i have to say that my thoughts mirror that of ianmedium's on the silver Poison and i also preferred the Poison.
  Toxic sent me 4 cables of their own, the Venom, Venom4, Poison and SPC and 3 cables from other manufacturers that they asked me not to name being that they borrowed me the cables.
   
  I have now asked Frank if i could trade my Venom4 in for the 8 wire to which he agreed, guess it wasn't really a good idea to borrow the cables as i have ended up spending twice what i had originally.
   
  I will post full impressions soon but for now i can say that both the Venom's come out tops, i would say the Poison is equally as good as a cable from another manufacturer but then again the other cable is an 8 wire at 3x the price of the Poison although the other cable did have a little more slam in the low frequency but i put that to it being a silver covered copper cable.
   
  Of the remaining 2 cables, one being copper and the other stranded silver, i found the copper cable to sound no better then the stock cable and actually prefer the stock cable over it.
   
  I dont visit here often so once my full review is complete i will post a link to it here.,


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





harrypotter said:


> I received 7 cables from Toxic cables last week and i have to say that my thoughts mirror that of ianmedium's on the silver Poison and i also preferred the Poison.
> Toxic sent me 4 cables of their own, the Venom, Venom4, Poison and SPC and 3 cables from other manufacturers that they asked me not to name being that they borrowed me the cables.
> 
> I have now asked Frank if i could trade my Venom4 in for the 8 wire to which he agreed, guess it wasn't really a good idea to borrow the cables as i have ended up spending twice what i had originally.
> ...


 
  nice, i was waiting for this. Lookin forward to ur review since i want the 8 cable venom.


----------



## Girls Generation

Ah cables... One wonders at what point one should stop with the constant upgrades, or thoughts of upgrading. Does it hurt more to know that you don't have better/the best, or does it hurt more to see your wallet getting thinner and thinner? Both hurt equally, but I can't stop; I need therapy. Anyone care to sign up for group sessions with me?


----------



## brianc0428

I just got my LCD2 Rev.2 and i am loving them with my balanced Q Cable with my RSA SR71-B.


----------



## palchiu

Dear All,
   
  Love my LCD-2 Rev.2!
   
  But the ADZ-5 really not good enough, I need some better cables.
   
  After read 129 pages... I maybe get Q or Norse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Can't make my decision right now... so I made one by myself first.
   
  This cable got good result for my HD650, I cut off senn plugs and put on mini-XLRs for LCD-2.
   
  They're silver/Gold, bigger soundstage but will let sound brighter and let me feel disordered.
   

   
  I think with LCD-2, should got copper one or fine silver.
   
  If the silver cable is not good enough, I think that will not be a good choice.
   
  I'll get some silver wires to make a 8 or 10 wires silver cable for test later.


----------



## ianmedium

I have so much respect for people who make their own cables, yours looks wonderful sir and i am glad your enjoying it!


----------



## scootermafia

Wow, a Siltech G5 headphone cable...did you chop up a pair of Siltech interconnects?


----------



## scootermafia

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1m-SILTECH-G5-SQ-88B-RCA-Interconnect-Cable-/220815017473
   
  Was it something like this that you used?  Because, while I'm sure you're well aware of this, the only way to get real Siltech cables these days is from a dealer.  Just so you know before reselling it on headfi or something...the cables in your pic look like the ones that Siltech is warning people about -
   
  http://siltechcables.com/news-detail.php?id=42


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-1m-SILTECH-G5-SQ-88B-RCA-Interconnect-Cable-/220815017473
> 
> Was it something like this that you used?  Because, while I'm sure you're well aware of this, the only way to get real Siltech cables these days is from a dealer.  Just so you know before reselling it on headfi or something...the cables in your pic look like the ones that Siltech is warning people about -
> 
> http://siltechcables.com/news-detail.php?id=42


 

 Is that Siltech on ebay a fake?


----------



## palchiu

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Is that Siltech on ebay a fake?


 


   
  Yes, they're fake cable from China.


----------



## Jalo

Don't know about the sound but it looks stiff and heavy.  Just what you need on a LCD2.


----------



## scootermafia

Right, there's nothing wrong with that, so long as you weren't hoping for the real deal, which at $50 I don't think most people would expect.  It's a perfectly good silver plated copper cable from the looks of it.


----------



## palchiu

Cardas Clear cables for Audezes?
   

   
  I can't found any reviews about this cable...
   
  There's a custom made cable for HD800 from Cardas, base wire is Clear phono cable.


----------



## MacedonianHero

^^
   
  The Cardas Clear ain't cheap:
   
  http://www.headphone.com/accessories/cables/cardas-clear-cable-for-audeze-balanced-10ft-gold.php
   
  FWIW, I have the Cardas Balanced GOLD for my HD800s and I'm very happy with them.


----------



## drgajet

From reading this thead I'm sure new cables will make my lcd-3 sound different/better.  I'm interested to know which are the most ergonomic/lightest/thinnest?  It sound like the Q cables and Norse are good in this aspect.  Any comments on these or others?


----------



## ianmedium

The toxic cables are not heavy of bulky and Frank gives the option of no copper shielding so as to make them lighter and more flexible!


----------



## drgajet

Can anyone provide a link to toxic cables?  I'm having a hard time finding them.


----------



## ianmedium

Hi is only on ebay at the moment though I believe he will have a website soon!


http://www.ebay.ca/sch/frankfranks35/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3984


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## drgajet

Thanks ianmedium.  I'll check these out also.


----------



## Argo Duck

I have a different problem. My Siamese cat has discerning taste; so discerning in fact she has found Steve's Q cable very much to her taste. It is not so much my wallet getting thinner, as my cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Steve, you did not warn me about this!
   
  Has anyone else experienced this problem?
   
  I have taken steps to keep cat and cable apart. However, if this keeps up I will certainly need to join you in therapy GG...
  
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Ah cables... One wonders at what point one should stop with the constant upgrades, or thoughts of upgrading. Does it hurt more to know that you don't have better/the best, or does it hurt more to see your wallet getting thinner and thinner? Both hurt equally, but I can't stop; I need therapy. Anyone care to sign up for group sessions with me?


----------



## flu_fighter

Omg, this reminds me of this thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/293165/my-cat-tore-up-my-virtual-dynamics-power-3
   
   
  I have a couple of Virtual Dynamics power cables and no cat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I have a different problem. My Siamese cat has discerning taste; so discerning in fact she has found Steve's Q cable very much to her taste. It is not so much my wallet getting thinner, as my cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Thanks flu_fighter - er, is what that cat did meant to reassure me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  GG have you booked our therapy yet?


----------



## flu_fighter

Hahaha, not really. Maybe you might try to make the cable look less like a ball of string.
   
  Speaking of therapy, I probably need some too for my addiction of buying tubes.
   
  Wonder if there are any intercontinental group therapy sessions out there.
   
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Thanks flu_fighter - er, is what that cat did meant to reassure me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## songmic

Put your headphone and cable inside a box when not listening to them.
  
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I have a different problem. My Siamese cat has discerning taste; so discerning in fact she has found Steve's Q cable very much to her taste. It is not so much my wallet getting thinner, as my cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Argo Duck

Yeah I guess it's the looking like string is the problem flu_fighter. Wondered if it has some sort of smell she likes too.
   
  I narrowly avoided tube addiction! Just...
   
  Good idea to keep things in a box songmic except LCD2 is my goto phone throughout the day (I write most of the time; five days per week from home). I like to have it ready to go. Impatient, I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Keeping the cable elevated above little princess's line of vision has almost solved the problem I think.


----------



## oqvist

What is the poor mans choice for balanced 4-pin LCD-2 cable these days


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oqvist said:


> What is the poor mans choice for balanced 4-pin LCD-2 cable these days


 
  I'm not trying to be funny, but here: http://audeze.com/adz-6-b4.
  At $80, it probably is the cheapest option you will find.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## ianmedium

hk_sends said:


> I'm not trying to be funny, but here: http://audeze.com/adz-6-b4.
> At $80, it probably is the cheapest option you will find.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...




That makes a lot of sense. If I had never needed to go balanced I would never have heard other cables and would probably still be blissfully ignorant and enjoying the stock cable!


----------



## oqvist

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> That makes a lot of sense. If I had never needed to go balanced I would never have heard other cables and would probably still be blissfully ignorant and enjoying the stock cable!


 


 That would be fine if it was not to short. Which is hugely annoying. If I am in my bed or my sofa it´s always almost so I can manage but not enough whereas other headphones are fine since they seem to follow some 3 metre+ industry standard


----------



## Ultrainferno

I fully agree, 3m is too short or way too long. all my aftermarket cables are 15ft


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Just ran across this http://www.musicdirect.com/p-64181-cardas-clear-audeze-headphone-cable.aspx
  looks like the cardas clear is comparable price wise to the alo headphone cables


----------



## oqvist

Looking at either a Moon Audio Blue Dragon V3 or Norse Audio NORN 4-wire. Similar expense. Moon audio feels a bit booring since I already have the Silver Dragon 3 though.
   
  Anyone heard both and have any comparison? I suppose Silver Dragon 3 work also since the blue dragon is designed to be the same.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I fully agree, 3m is too short or way too long. all my aftermarket cables are 15ft


 

  
  I like 7 ' now  - its long enough but doesn't sit on the floor which avoids accidently damaging the cable.


----------



## ianmedium

I am the opposite to all of you it seems, the four feet I have is the perfect length. I remember reading somewhere it is advisible to keep cable lengths short but that was for speaker cables, I wonder if the same holds true for Headphone cables?


----------



## drez

Yes AFAIK it is best to keep cables as short as possible in terms of parameters that possible affect sound quality.


----------



## songmic

There's a well-known audiophile word of wisdom: the best cable is no cable. SQ-wise it is best to keep your cable length as short as possible, even headphone cables. Besides, it's cheaper that way 
  
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I am the opposite to all of you it seems, the four feet I have is the perfect length. I remember reading somewhere it is advisible to keep cable lengths short but that was for speaker cables, I wonder if the same holds true for Headphone cables?


----------



## oqvist

All that is negated where you come into situations where you can´t use the headphones as you like. Anyway if aftermarket cables do their work you should be able to have them longer then the stock cables with no loss in SQ. I experimented with the ED 8 and the difference with the stock at maybe 0,8 metre and the extender which is more like 4 metre is quite small. But maybe I am just a failed audiophile. There is a difference but really really slim.
   
  I went the short route on my SD3 cable. It was perfect for my old setup but bloody useless for my current. It´s locked down on my bed room rig firmly.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





drgajet said:


> Can anyone provide a link to toxic cables?  I'm having a hard time finding them.


 

  
http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home

  
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Hi is only on ebay at the moment though I believe he will have a website soon!
> http://www.ebay.ca/sch/frankfranks35/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3984


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> I have a real question. What's the main differences between the Q headphone cable ($275) and the Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Headphone Cable ($350)? I like the color options and the look of the Q. I am buying a LCD-2.2, a Rega DAC, and a V200 Amp. Does it matter which I go with? I am going for a warm, analog sound and would not like the cable to affect the high-quality sound of my gear. Thanks.


 


 Hi. That was my question back then. Since, everything has burnt in quite nicely and is sounding nice and warm. I am using Nordost Silver Blue Heavens RCAs. I didn't know what to think but It sounds pretty good with the silver. I read this...
   
  Quote:  





> Imo lcd-2 needs Silver, bad... Both variants.. Not to change the sound, it's because it (lcd) hides so many details. Silver may be summarized as 'brighter up top,' (this is a bad way to describe it) but it's simply more detailed throughout the spectrum. Mids - highs especially..


 


  How would TWO silver cables sound with the LCD2? Could it hurt the warm sound? I am dying to try the Q cable out but I still haven't ordered it yet. I do like the way the Blue Heavens sound but I'd hate to go overkill because I hate treble and like warmth. At times the treble is high but I think that is the music itself. I really like the way everything sounds but would just like it more detailed. What do you think?
   
  PS: I am kicking myself a little. I didn't know this but if you order the LCD2 at Moon Audio and PICK one of their cables instead of the stock, you get it at a discount. Like for the 10 FT. Silver Dragon V3, it is like $70 off or something. I didn't know this and that is also leaning me towards the Q...though I am glad to have heard the stock sound first, I guess. Anyway, now you know.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Hi. That was my question back then. Since, everything has burnt in quite nicely and is sounding nice and warm. I am using Nordost Silver Blue Heavens RCAs. I didn't know what to think but It sounds pretty good with the silver. I read this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just remember that the Q-Audio cable is all copper.  Unless Steve has just released something new, he doesn't offer any silver cables.  The real appeal of the Q cable is its "_transparency_"...it won't highlight any detail, but it also doesn't hide any detail either.  So to get the greatest amount of detail, you would have to change your other components.  For example, my LCD-3's (with Q cable) sound quality is dramatically changed by which tubes I pop into my Lyr amp.  I have tubes that are warm, yet still have great treble and I have tubes that are dry and detailed.  The great thing about the Q cable is it doesn't appear to influence the sound.
   
  I'm not trying to influence you either way with the Q cable, just give you an idea of what you could expect.  There is a significant sound signature difference in the Silver Dragon cable and Q cable (I did have the SD for a short while).  Remember, this is all IMHO and YMMV... 
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## ianmedium

oprwtos said:


> http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home




Wow, thats great, they have the website up and running, bookmarked! thank you for posting it!


----------



## HK_sends

Yes, Thanks!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Wow, thats great, they have the website up and running, bookmarked! thank you for posting it!


 
  right now he doesnt seem to have his trademark cable on his website: the "venom", but that one is on his ebay though.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> right now he doesnt seem to have his trademark cable on his website: the "venom", but that one is on his ebay though.


 
  Isn't this the Venom cable?  http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=55
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  PS - He mentioned having gold injected into the cable...
  PPS - *Sorry*, I just saw the "Silver Poison" label on the cable...


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Isn't this the Venom cable?  http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=55
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120832684275&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
  beastly.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120832684275&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
> beastly.


 
  Ahh...sweet!  I need to see what body parts I can spare to get a cable like this.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## drez

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> PS: I am kicking myself a little. I didn't know this but if you order the LCD2 at Moon Audio and PICK one of their cables instead of the stock, you get it at a discount. Like for the 10 FT. Silver Dragon V3, it is like $70 off or something. I didn't know this and that is also leaning me towards the Q...though I am glad to have heard the stock sound first, I guess. Anyway, now you know.


 

 The discount is pretty awesome - I was looking at HE-500 with one of their cables and it is even cheaper than DIY with their cables.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





			
				HK_sends said:
			
		

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  How much from the purchase price would a second hand, burnt-in cable sell for? I know I would be quite happy with the Q but...I would like to know what the Silver Dragon sounds like. If I bought both...that's $500 right there...but if I could sell one no big deal.
   
  If I paid $275 for the SD. how much would it sell for, y'think?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


devarika woulf said:


> How much from the purchase price would a second hand, burnt-in cable sell for? I know I would be quite happy with the Q but...I would like to know what the Silver Dragon sounds like. If I bought both...that's $500 right there...but if I could sell one no big deal.
> 
> If I paid $275 for the SD. how much would it sell for, y'think?


 

 Aftermarket cables don't really hold their value well from original MSRP.  I'd expect to take a 1/3 to 1/2 hit on price.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


devarika woulf said:


> How much from the purchase price would a second hand, burnt-in cable sell for? I know I would be quite happy with the Q but...I would like to know what the Silver Dragon sounds like. If I bought both...that's $500 right there...but if I could sell one no big deal.
> 
> If I paid $275 for the SD. how much would it sell for, y'think?


 

 By the way, if you buy both, you wouldn't have to resell anything.  Unless it takes you more than a month to make up your mind, both Moon and Q offer a 30-day return policy.  I think Moon charges a restocking fee though.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

I have the LCD-2 and am about to order the LCD-3.
  This thread is too long to go through to get the answers to my questions, so if someone can post a reply.
  Are the LCD-2 ALO & Norse cable compatible with the LCD-3?
  Is the Moon Audio cable different/better suited for the LCD-3s
  Thanks in advance


----------



## TigzStudio

All LCD-2 headphone cables work with the LCD-3.  They use the same female mini-xlr connector.
  
  Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> I have the LCD-2 and am about to order the LCD-3.
> This thread is too long to go through to get the answers to my questions, so if someone can post a reply.
> Are the LCD-2 ALO & Norse cable compatible with the LCD-3?
> Is the Moon Audio cable different/better suited for the LCD-3s
> Thanks in advance


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> All LCD-2 headphone cables work with the LCD-3.  They use the same female mini-xlr connector.


 
  Great!!
  Thanks!!


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> devarika woulf said:
> ...


 


  Yes, if after 14 days for cables. So I must make a choice quickly. Since I would only have to pay for shipping which won't be much for a cable, I may just do that and post a review. This is a major topic (Copper vs Silver) and two top cable brands so maybe I can add a lot of light to it. We'll see. I mean I love my gear but the truth is which cable would I prefer? I don't know...
   
  PS: Thanks Steve.


----------



## danska

Well I've read through this entire thread, starting before I bought my LCD-2s. I'm leaning towards the Norse for cost reasons, and the fact I've had great emails from Trevor so far. I need at least 12 feet, so cost does become an issue. Got to listen to a couple of the ALO cables when I bought my LCD-2s, but really cannot afford any of them. If anyone is considering selling a longer variety of cable, let me know soon!


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





danska said:


> Well I've read through this entire thread, starting before I bought my LCD-2s. I'm leaning towards the Norse for cost reasons, and the fact I've had great emails from Trevor so far. I need at least 12 feet, so cost does become an issue. Got to listen to a couple of the ALO cables when I bought my LCD-2s, but really cannot afford any of them. If anyone is considering selling a longer variety of cable, let me know soon!


 
  I have bought the Norse audio cables for both the HE-6 & LCD-2 and would fully recommend getting them.
  I have an ALO 8 chain cable for LCD-2 as well and can't hear any difference between the two. The price difference is substantial, though.
  In fact, if you go with the Norse adapter system, it'll give you a lot of options with the various adapters (speaker taps/RSA71B)
  Very flexible cables and extremely well priced.
  And dealing with Trevor is a real pleasure.


----------



## krod3003

The Norse Cable is wonderful for its looks and function, and for the quality craftsmanship at that price just can't be beat. I can't say enough great things about Trevor and Norse Audio. I know which cable i'm buying when I get an HE-6 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   

   
  forgive the crappy phone pics


----------



## danska

What did the adapter system cost you guys? That's about the only piece of information, I didn't get from Trevor! Might come in useful for portable use in the future.


----------



## krod3003

$155 for just the 4" cable, and the splitter cost extra, but i'd keep it cause it matches the LCD-2 oh so well. $90 ($30 a piece) for the 1" adapters. So $245 shipped for everything. Quite a steal in my opinion, some places charge $90 for just *ONE* adapter and $245 for the cable


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





krod3003 said:


> The Norse Cable is wonderful for its looks and function, and for the quality craftsmanship at that price just can't be beat. I can't say enough great things about Trevor and Norse Audio. I know which cable i'm buying when I get an HE-6
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And you could save on the adapters as well, sice you already have these for the LCD-2s!
  I have done the same.
  Idiotically, I was ordering adapters for the HE-6 even though I had the full set for the LCD-2s when Trevor pointed it out to me!!
  Very nice person, I must say.


----------



## danska

Quote: 





krod3003 said:


> $155 for just the 4" cable, and the splitter cost extra, but i'd keep it cause it matches the LCD-2 oh so well. $90 ($30 a piece) for the 1" adapters. So $245 shipped for everything. Quite a steal in my opinion, some places charge $90 for just *ONE* adapter and $245 for the cable


 


  For a cable that delivers what it people say it does, I find that to be quite a good deal! Your right about the price of a few of them out there, it does get a bit crazy.
   
  I bought a stock cable that has been terminated in the SR-71B connector, so I think I'll just go with a SE plug. I'm going to wait until next weekends Seattle head-fi meet, to try and inspect and maybe demo a few cables. Thanks for the info.


----------



## krod3003

Quote: 





danska said:


> For a cable that delivers what it people say it does, I find that to be quite a good deal! Your right about the price of a few of them out there, it does get a bit crazy.
> 
> I bought a stock cable that has been terminated in the SR-71B connector, so I think I'll just go with a SE plug. I'm going to wait until next weekends Seattle head-fi meet, to try and inspect and maybe demo a few cables. Thanks for the info.


 

 I'm currently awaiting a few meets so I can find the right amp. I'm sure it will help you on your search for the perfect cable. Though the funny thing is, it only took me 2 days after I got my LCD-2 to know the Norse cable was right for me. And I i'm loving every audio bit with it.


----------



## Girls Generation

A bargain indeed.


----------



## oqvist

Please continue justify my purchase 
   
  Hopping to get my tracking number soon.
  Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> I have bought the Norse audio cables for both the HE-6 & LCD-2 and would fully recommend getting them.
> I have an ALO 8 chain cable for LCD-2 as well and can't hear any difference between the two. The price difference is substantial, though.
> In fact, if you go with the Norse adapter system, it'll give you a lot of options with the various adapters (speaker taps/RSA71B)
> Very flexible cables and extremely well priced.
> And dealing with Trevor is a real pleasure.


----------



## krod3003

Quote: 





oqvist said:


> Please continue justify my purchase
> 
> Hopping to get my tracking number soon.


 

 Glad to hear you bought it.


----------



## KimbaWLion

After much thought about things and all the thread reading I started to really confuse myself. It was a hard choice but I came down on the side of the Q cable.
  I like how it was best described as just not being there. Plus everybody raves about the ergonomics of the cable, like it just is not there. 
   
  It was really a hard choice. I AM confident that I would not have made a wrong choice either way. Since I am a newb at this, once I decided what cable, Steve helped
  with choices I had questions on, and made it a great experience! What I really liked about the Q is that Steve makes no claims that his cable will make my music sound better,
  but will make my listening experience a better one. The Stock cable just does not work for me!  I am thankful for the amount of choices I had to choose from
  and I am happy with the choice I made!  
   
  At least to me, unless somebody can show and prove to me why silver would sound better I saw no reason to consider it for myself.
  PLUS there is a higher cost too. The black and white engineering world I live in just can not mentally buy that changing the metal
  will make a difference to justify the cost to me. But that is what makes this hobby so great, we can pick and chose what we
  like and I will always respect another's choice!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I really enjoy reading the threads here. I learn so much and 
  continue to learn even more. I can not wait to get the cable to go with my brand new Lyr/Bifrost combo that JUST came in!


----------



## MorbidToaster

Wait did you buy a Q interconnect, too? Impressions please. Thinking about one myself.
  Quote: 





kimbawlion said:


> After much thought about things and all the thread reading I started to really confuse myself. It was a hard choice but I came down on the side of the Q cable.
> I like how it was best described as just not being there. Plus everybody raves about the ergonomics of the cable, like it just is not there.
> 
> It was really a hard choice. I AM confident that I would not have made a wrong choice either way. Since I am a newb at this, once I decided what cable, Steve helped
> ...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


morbidtoaster said:


> Wait did you buy a Q interconnect, too? Impressions please. Thinking about one myself.


 

 I've had a pair of RCA ICs from Q for a while: http://www.head-fi.org/t/552059/aftermarket-cables-for-the-he-6-he-500-etc/15#post_7584131
   
  They're pretty great.  Cable routing is a dream with them, as they're flexible and have no bulk, so they basically go anywhere you want them to.


----------



## HK_sends

Ditto for what sridhar3 said! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## palchiu

I decided go with custom cable, it's never seen on headphones before.


----------



## Windsor

Hi guys - 
   
  I've reached the point of going for a new LCD-2 cable and what I want is a cable that is sonically transparent, so that the clarity and neutrality of my Lavry DA-10 DAC/Amp makes its way to my LCD-2. I also want a cable that is much lighter than the stock Audez'e cable and for the cable to look great with the LCD-2.
   
  Based on what I've read on this site in the past year, it comes to mind that a Q, Norse, or Double Helix could be the way to go. From what I've said, what cable would you guys suggest?
   
  Many thanks for your time.
  Windsor


----------



## Francoy

Quote:


windsor said:


> Hi guys -
> 
> I've reached the point of going for a new LCD-2 cable and what I want is a cable that is sonically transparent, so that the clarity and neutrality of my Lavry DA-10 DAC/Amp makes its way to my LCD-2. I also want a cable that is much lighter than the stock Audez'e cable and for the cable to look great with the LCD-2.
> 
> ...


 

 Black Q cable for the win! (black to complement the phones and your Lavry DAC - myself I have a brown one to complement the wood of the phones and to sport an old school look)
   
  Take this with a grain of salt though, I haven’t heard the other cables you mention... I’ve only listened to the old and the new stock LCD-2 cables and a home made Mogami one. Th Q beats all of these hands down on all the aspects you are looking for (but I can’t tell you if they are the definite solution for lack of comparisons).


----------



## ianmedium

windsor said:


> Hi guys -
> 
> I've reached the point of going for a new LCD-2 cable and what I want is a cable that is sonically transparent, so that the clarity and neutrality of my Lavry DA-10 DAC/Amp makes its way to my LCD-2. I also want a cable that is much lighter than the stock Audez'e cable and for the cable to look great with the LCD-2.
> 
> ...




I would also look at the Toxic Silver poison for an open window on the music, I find them very transparent.


----------



## CanDude

Quote:


windsor said:


> Hi guys -
> 
> I've reached the point of going for a new LCD-2 cable and what I want is a cable that is *sonically transparent*, so that the clarity and neutrality of my Lavry DA-10 DAC/Amp makes its way to my LCD-2. I also want a cable that is *much lighter* than the stock Audez'e cable and for the cable to *look great* with the LCD-2.
> 
> ...


 

 Before getting EAR909 and LCD-3 I used DA11 > Q-Audio (black!) > LCD-2. Highly recommended! You basically describe this setup. Buy a cable with a 4 pole balanced XLR + converter for the future though (I did)! You'll be surpriced when you go balanced (I was).
  Now I use the same cable with EAR909 and LCD-3. I love standards!


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





windsor said:


> Hi guys -
> 
> I've reached the point of going for a new LCD-2 cable and what I want is a cable that is sonically transparent, so that the clarity and neutrality of my Lavry DA-10 DAC/Amp makes its way to my LCD-2. I also want a cable that is much lighter than the stock Audez'e cable and for the cable to look great with the LCD-2.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If used with DA-10, I prefer go with copper base cables.
   
  I've try HD600/650 w/Silver Dragon on DA-10 before, it's much brighter in my ear.


----------



## oqvist

Got home my Norse Norn 4-wire cable today. Had a really nice time with the LCD-2. Has hardly used it for 3 months so  it´s new toy syndrome in full effect. Sound even better then I remembered it actually. Once you learn to bicycle I guess.
   
  Really nice cable in a neat package.  Light flexible and soft to touch and give a very good impression regarding build quality. Sonics wise more in common with the SD3 then the stock cable. Stock cable has the most warmth for a double bass concerto I listened to and and voices sound a bit fuller whereas the SD 3 is sometimes a hair brighter and cleaner sounding then the Norn.
   
  SD 3 is not quite as flexible though I doubt I would have a problem with that if I got it at 13 feet also. But slight nudge for the Norse here absolutely.
  Best of all was to finally get to hear the LCD-2 balanced


----------



## Mcbuddah

Has anyone else tried Artisan Silver's mark2 cable with LCD-2's? I was ready to pull the trigger on endorphins when I ran across a few references to them in some older (2009-10) posts where people raved about them. Apparently there were some quality problems with the Mk1 but the new ones are jacketed with kevlar. I had just got the last ZDT from Eddie Current and wanted to replace the 1/4' plug black dragon I bought with the LCD with a balanced worthy of the amp & phones. OMG! The sound I get now from phones puts my main system to shame.
   
  Their web site only lists the clunky 4-pin pair of xlr termination so I had to special-order it. They found a high-quality 3-pin for me and made them up at no charge. Even though they are located in the UK, the total time from order to delivery (no charge) was < 3 weeks. 
   
  This cable is outstanding in my system. To me, transparency, bass definition, soundstage are critical and this cable brings it on. I have been a hi-fi fanatic for decades and, until now, I have never heard much less owned a system that has so much faith to the sound of music. One thing I always listen for when evaluating when a system is "done" so I can stop buying and trying things to fix it is the sound of metal instruments - especially the simplest ones such as handbells ( Reference Recordings RR-21 Star of Wonder) or triangles, cymbals both brushed and hammered, flutes, cowbells, and especially vibes (God Bless Milt Jackson & Lionel Hampton). Usually it takes a major analog system with years of moving components and cables in and out before these instruments sound really pure and clean with no glaze covering up the upper mids & highs before I can just sit back and listen without ruining the music with figuring out what to change next.
   
  This cable was the last piece in making my system "complete". I have no desire to buy or tweak or fix anything else. Ever.
   
  Oppo BDP-95 -> Audio Art IC3-SE with Xshadow plugs -> Eddie Current ZDT -> Artisan Silver Silver Dream balanced HP cable -> LCD2.2 = Nirvana


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


mcbuddah said:


> the new ones are jacketed with kevlar


----------



## Naim.F.C

I use a Norse Audio 4 Norn cable with my LCD-2's. Won't speak for sound quality but I will say that they are some of the best cables I've ever used. They are extremely light, flexible and comfortable to the touch, thanks to the material braiding. They also look magnificent and all the connectors are top notch. Can't complain really. Might put some pics up later.
   
  I think Norse have the right idea. Instead of going all out with superlatively expensive cables that weigh a tonne and are quite impractical to use (albeit look awesome) and for potentially negligible audio differences, they are focusing on affordable looks AND comfort. Hopefully they keep up this trend and don't bring out a pure 024 iridium carbon gold fossil super weave version that costs the price of a top end headphone itself.


----------



## alvin sawdust

I already had the Endorphin cable on my HD650 but decided to try Artisans mk2 cable. The price at the time was £150, now hiked to £400! Burned the cable in for 500 hrs but still prefered the Endorphin.
  While the Artisan did some things better like thunderous bass and airier highs, I found the mids a little hard sounding. Sent cable back for refund.
  Since then i bought LCD-2 and had the Endorphin reterminated for the Audez'e by James at SAA. Couldn't be happier.
  Quote: 





mcbuddah said:


> Has anyone else tried Artisan Silver's mark2 cable with LCD-2's? I was ready to pull the trigger on endorphins when I ran across a few references to them in some older (2009-10) posts where people raved about them. Apparently there were some quality problems with the Mk1 but the new ones are jacketed with kevlar. I had just got the last ZDT from Eddie Current and wanted to replace the 1/4' plug black dragon I bought with the LCD with a balanced worthy of the amp & phones. OMG! The sound I get now from phones puts my main system to shame.
> 
> Their web site only lists the clunky 4-pin pair of xlr termination so I had to special-order it. They found a high-quality 3-pin for me and made them up at no charge. Even though they are located in the UK, the total time from order to delivery (no charge) was < 3 weeks.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mcbuddah

SRIDHAR3 : Ha Ha! If you had a pitbull puppy eating your phones you would looking for a Kevlar mod for your phones too! My LCD2's were only 1 week old when my dog buddy Dexter Rexter nibbled the ear cushions and lambskin headband off.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> I already had the Endorphin cable on my HD650 but decided to try Artisans mk2 cable. The price at the time was £150, now hiked to £400! Burned the cable in for 500 hrs but still prefered the Endorphin.
> While the Artisan did some things better like thunderous bass and airier highs, I found the mids a little hard sounding. Sent cable back for refund.
> Since then i bought LCD-2 and had the Endorphin reterminated for the Audez'e by James at SAA. Couldn't be happier.


 

 Nothing is worse than a hard or repressed sounding cable - IMO the Norse Norn (in any no of conductors) is the exact opposite of this.  Very natural and open sound.  Adding more conductors to the Norn seems to add smoothness and warmth - I personally really lilked 6 conductors I demoed and might order one.


----------



## Argo Duck

If they do it's your fault you gave them the idea Naim! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> I use a Norse Audio 4 Norn cable with my LCD-2's. Won't speak for sound quality but I will say that they are some of the best cables I've ever used. They are extremely light, flexible and comfortable to the touch, thanks to the material braiding. They also look magnificent and all the connectors are top notch. Can't complain really. Might put some pics up later.
> 
> I think Norse have the right idea. Instead of going all out with superlatively expensive cables that weigh a tonne and are quite impractical to use (albeit look awesome) and for potentially negligible audio differences, they are focusing on affordable looks AND comfort. *Hopefully they keep up this trend and don't bring out a pure 024 iridium carbon gold fossil super weave version that costs the price of a top end headphone itself.*


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mcbuddah said:


> SRIDHAR3 : Ha Ha! If you had a pitbull puppy eating your phones you would looking for a Kevlar mod for your phones too!


 
   
  I'd be looking for another puppy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## drgajet

Or at least a kennel.  Sorry to hear about that.  Love of animals vs love of headphones..............close call.


----------



## zzffnn

Having the cable shown above, I realize why some people described the stock ADZ5 cable as "garden hose". This cable is so flexible that it makes Lcd-2s feel "wireless" and I can put the entire cable in my pocket and not feel much of it. I guess the cotton coating and premium cable material really help the portability here. I really enjoy using this cable with Lcd-2s and an Objective 2 transportable amp. This cable was built for me by "Pingupenguins" at BG Audio.


----------



## TruBrew

I have a pitbull and l am happy to say she has not eaten anything to expensive. She is almost seven. However, one time when she was younger she ate a shark jaw. There were little bits of broken sharks teeth all over the floor. It wasn't small either. I must have tasted delicious for her to have thought eating a few hundred shark teeth was worth it.
   
  I would apologize for continuing the off topic conversation, but dogs are awesome, even if they do eat inappropriate things from time to time.
  Quote: 





mcbuddah said:


> SRIDHAR3 : Ha Ha! If you had a pitbull puppy eating your phones you would looking for a Kevlar mod for your phones too! My LCD2's were only 1 week old when my dog buddy Dexter Rexter nibbled the ear cushions and lambskin headband off.


----------



## Randall DZM

Going back on topic... Just picked up a Silver Dragon.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Going back off topic...I like puppies. Puppies falling asleep while playing. Puppies hungry for food. Puppies are my friends as long as they don't poop on my headphones. But, truly, all dogs are awesome. I like them almost as much as kitties.
   

   
  Steve Eddy just sent me a sample of a Gold and Black cable...and I must say, hot damn, does it make me feel naughty. I love how the length I believe I am getting (3 Ft.) combined with how light the cable is will make the LCD-2 feel wireless. The stock cable sucks Steven Tyler for comfort.
   
  Here's a question...does Moon Audio let you get a cable shorter than 5 Ft.?


----------



## olor1n

Just received an xlr to trs adapter from Steve. I bought my Q cable used here, so this was my first time dealing directly the cable maker. All the praise of excellent service is spot on. Cheers Steve.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I want a Corgi... ;~;
   
  Also, 3ft is too short for me. Not sure I could manage with that length.
  
  Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Going back off topic...I like puppies. Puppies falling asleep while playing. Puppies hungry for food. Puppies are my friends as long as they don't poop on my headphones. But, truly, all dogs are awesome. I like them almost as much as kitties.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> I want a Corgi... ;~;
> 
> Also, 3ft is too short for me. Not sure I could manage with that length.


 
  Ha, they're really cute. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Yeah, I thought that too...until I realized how annoying it is to have excess cable. Either my amp/DAC is right next to me, somewhat near me, or further down my desk. If it's not near me, with the stock 6 ft. Audeze cable, it is constantly all over my desk when I put the LCD-2 on it's stand, getting in the way of other things. Either way, my chair's wheels always roll over it (my cable has marks all over it). My desk is an L and I am in the middle so having my gear next to me is no problem. I believe I am going with 3 feet.
   
  Of course, this means I can't get in bed and listen while I relax, but that's what my Ultrasone PRO 550 is for (9 ft. cable) and it's more comfortable on my pillow as well.
   
  Here's another question: How much does cable quality degrade per foot?


----------



## danska

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Here's another question: How much does cable quality degrade per foot?


 

 I know with my Zu Mobius cable (15' for Senns) I was told by them that having a long run doesn't degrade the sound quality. Nice thing about their mission RCAs also, longer runs, no issues. Some cables are supposed to add some color to the sound as they become longer and longer. I need long cables so this is always a concern of mine.


----------



## MorbidToaster

I've never noticed with any sort of cable. My Q cable is 10 feet and I've had no issues. I actually sit right next to my player at the moment, but I want to lie in bed, or sit on the couch when I move my stuff into the living room. I have a hook on my desk that I just spool the extra cable on and it works well.
  
  Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Here's another question: How much does cable quality degrade per foot?


----------



## landgreen

FWIW, I switched from the Silver Dragon, which was very good, to the Q cable and the biggest difference to me is how light and unnoticeable the Q is. I had a 15 ft Silver Dragon and found it was always tangling compared to the 12 ft Q cable. Soundwise it seems that the Q might  be a bit more open sounding with tremendous bass definition. This may also be due to the Liquid Fire settling in so nicely but it all just seems to work very well right now.


----------



## Raser

I took the budget route and ordered the toxic cable 6ft SPC cable. I post some thoughts when i get the cable. Probably next week?


----------



## ianmedium

raser said:


> I took the budget route and ordered the toxic cable 6ft SPC cable. I post some thoughts when i get the cable. Probably next week?




Looking forward to your thoughts, nice to see someone else using this excellent cable company. Very pleased with my silver poison.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Sad to have had to stick these babies on classified along with the cans, but had to be done. I will miss em!


----------



## elbastardo

Dang, that sucks Naim. Just got my LCD-2's in today and my Norse 8-wire will be here in 2 days.


----------



## WeggliNet

I think i give Norse or Q Audio a try. Seems fair priced also.


----------



## ianmedium

You might want to look at toxic cables as well, I love my set!


----------



## elbastardo

Just got the norse 8-wire in...this thing is gorgeous, to say the least. Not only is it a work of art, but it takes the build quality and sound to another level. I say sound, because the original cable that  came with the LCD-2, produced static when I twisted the end in the socket. No static at all with the twisting of the Norse. It is very flexible. I do not know whether to attribute this to it being 8 small wires, or litz twist. Trevor is a pleasure to do business with. I am rather inexperienced with after market cabling, but I must say, this has been a very positive purchase. I highly recommend.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Ooooo I get to hear it at the meet. I love my Q cable, but you gotta be curious. 
  
  Quote: 





elbastardo said:


> Just got the norse 8-wire in...this thing is gorgeous, to say the least. Not only is it a work of art, but it takes the build quality and sound to another level. I say sound, because the original cable that  came with the LCD-2, produced static when I twisted the end in the socket. No static at all with the twisting of the Norse. It is very flexible. I do not know whether to attribute this to it being 8 small wires, or litz twist. Trevor is a pleasure to do business with. I am rather inexperienced with after market cabling, but I must say, this has been a very positive purchase. I highly recommend.


----------



## elbastardo

Absolutely, Morbid....I've been curious about the Q cable also, as it was my second choice.


----------



## setamp

How do you find the bass on the norse 8-wire.  I just tried a 4-wire and loved the mids/highs but am hoping a 6 or 8 wire would boost the bass weight a touch.
 I did not find the 4 wire to be lacking bass but I have heard the addition of conductors further improves LF weight.
  Quote: 





elbastardo said:


> Just got the norse 8-wire in...this thing is gorgeous, to say the least. Not only is it a work of art, but it takes the build quality and sound to another level. I say sound, because the original cable that  came with the LCD-2, produced static when I twisted the end in the socket. No static at all with the twisting of the Norse. It is very flexible. I do not know whether to attribute this to it being 8 small wires, or litz twist. Trevor is a pleasure to do business with. I am rather inexperienced with after market cabling, but I must say, this has been a very positive purchase. I highly recommend.


----------



## elbastardo

I don't really notice any change to the lower end. Just added a tad more clarity and air to the mids and highs...I really need to give the stock another listen after I have let the cans, amp and DAC (when it arrives) burn in more.


----------



## DarknightDK

Can't wait for my Norse 8 wire to arrive. I'll post some impressions after the burn in.


----------



## danska

I'm really digging my Norse 4 wire.. I had to re-terminate it with a Furutech 1/4" plug as I bought from someone who had it in 4-pin balanced connector. Can't really give detailed impressions at this time as I only had about 20-25 hours of head time with my LCD-2 before then. What I can say is that it makes the cans much easier for me to listen to as the stock cable was too short. The weight adds a great deal of comfort as well. I have a Toxic silver cable waiting at home also for use with my SR-71B so at some point I can use the adapter and compare the two.
   
  Trevor at Norse was really great to talk with, and he gave lots of good information. He had/has a few cables available at a discount if anyone is interested.


----------



## danska

I'm really digging my Norse 4 wire.. I had to re-terminate it with a Furutech 1/4" plug as I bought from someone who had it in 4-pin balanced connector. Can't really give detailed impressions at this time as I only had about 20-25 hours of head time with my LCD-2 before then. What I can say is that it makes the cans much easier for me to listen to as the stock cable was too short. The weight adds a great deal of comfort as well. I have a Toxic silver cable waiting at home also for use with my SR-71B so at some point I can use the adapter and compare the two.
   
  Trevor at Norse was really great to talk with, and he gave lots of good information. He had/has a few cables available at a discount if anyone is interested.


----------



## setamp

Quote: 





elbastardo said:


> I don't really notice any change to the lower end. Just added a tad more clarity and air to the mids and highs...I really need to give the stock another listen after I have let the cans, amp and DAC (when it arrives) burn in more.


 

 You'll be amazed when you swap out the Norse for the stock cable.  You will wonder how you ever tolerated the stock.  You'll switch back to the Norn very quickly.


----------



## OPrwtos

hey yes that comparison with the toxic cable will be nice


----------



## ianmedium

danska said:


> I'm really digging my Norse 4 wire.. I had to re-terminate it with a Furutech 1/4" plug as I bought from someone who had it in 4-pin balanced connector. Can't really give detailed impressions at this time as I only had about 20-25 hours of head time with my LCD-2 before then. What I can say is that it makes the cans much easier for me to listen to as the stock cable was too short. The weight adds a great deal of comfort as well. I have a Toxic silver cable waiting at home also for use with my SR-71B so at some point I can use the adapter and compare the two.
> 
> Trevor at Norse was really great to talk with, and he gave lots of good information. He had/has a few cables available at a discount if anyone is interested.




I will be very interested in your findings I know when I took my rig to a local meet and gave the opportunity to others to compare the toxic to the TWag V2 everyone thought the same as I did that the Toxic gave a more organic and enjoyable experience over the TWag.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I will be very interested in your findings I know when I took my rig to a local meet and gave the opportunity to others to compare the toxic to the TWag V2 everyone thought the same as I did that the Toxic gave a more organic and enjoyable experience over the TWag.


 

 ian did u ever try the toxic cables 8 wire 18awg silver cable?


----------



## ianmedium

oprwtos said:


> ian did u ever try the toxic cables 8 wire 18awg silver cable?




Sadly no, they are so thick the won't work with my Balanced termination on the SR71-B!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Sadly no, they are so thick the won't work with my Balanced termination on the SR71-B!


----------



## googleli

Trevor makes great cables. My old hard-style Norse cables and the new Litz cables are both very good. With the Litz cable he has taken it to a new level. Very natural sounding. Although I prefer my ALO cable ultimately, the Norse cables are a steal at their costs and should be tried out by every LCD2/3 owner.


----------



## raysclim1568

I just ordered AUDEZE LCD2-2 from Moon Audio and expecting it to reach me in 2 weeks time .
  I have read thru' this forum thread to learnt that stock cable is not to the mark to bring out full potential of the LCD.
   
  I have short listed few cable that I am considering , appreciate if you could give some advise which cable will be a good match for the Gear that i am using with LCD2.
  My Gear are Violectric V-200 / Rein-Audio X-DAC or AudioLab M-DAC / Cambridge Audio ID100 as Transport for IPOD classic /ALAC files 
   
  1. Whiplash TWag2 Cable 
  2, Whiplash Sapphire Pro Cable 
  3. Norse Audio 4-wired Cable
  4. Moon Audio's Silver Dragon Cable 
  5. Chris_himself Silver Cable 
  6. Nordost Odin Cable 
   
  also . is it better for me to have a straight 15ft cable or 5ft cable +10ft cable extension ?? reason . I would like to lie on bed to listen to music so 15ft is good for me . but separate the 15ft into two will give me flexibility but just worry about sound quality will suffer.
   
  Thanks 
 Raymond Lim


----------



## ianmedium

Hi Raymond, I hope you enjoy your new headphones, I love mine. I must say from personal experience I found the TWags to deliver a tiring presentation. I was initially thrilled with the detail but it soon wore and i found tracks that I have listened to time and again become annoying to listen to with the TWag. I would encourage you also add to your list the Toxic cables silver poison, most folks here use Norse or Quables as they have been around longer, fine cables I am sure they are!

I found the toxics to bring a much more emotionally engaging sound to the picture and find they compliment the LCD's very well.As I mentioned earlier, that is not just me but a number of folks at a recent meet found that as well!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





raysclim1568 said:


> I just ordered AUDEZE LCD2-2 from Moon Audio and expecting it to reach me in 2 weeks time .
> I have read thru' this forum thread to learnt that stock cable is not to the mark to bring out full potential of the LCD.
> 
> I have short listed few cable that I am considering , appreciate if you could give some advise which cable will be a good match for the Gear that i am using with LCD2.
> ...


 

 I'm a very big fan of Drew's Silver Dragon V.3 with the LCD-2/3s.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I'm a very big fan of Drew's Silver Dragon V.3 with the LCD-2/3s.


 

 The package deal they do with headphone purchase is crazy good.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> ...most folks here use Norse or Quables as they have been around longer...


 

  Don't want to quibble, but Quables? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

steve eddy said:


> Don't want to quibble, but Quables?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oops, Sorry Steve! :blink: I of course meant your great cables!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Oops, Sorry Steve!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, I thought you meant Qables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

steve eddy said:


> Oh, I thought you meant Qables.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




See, its all these ruddy Q's! I think to make things easier you should re name to aardvark cables, my old brain can't take the strain anymore


----------



## Hennyo

I've heard LCD-2 via Silver Dragon's, Crystal Piccolino, and APS Voice. All were incredible. I say go with a Silver cable. Heard them with DHC too. (Which is a good cable but not for the LCD-2 rev1's imo. Sounded good with Rev 2's though).
   
  LCD-2's need it... They're just way too dark without it. But then, the driver matching upon each headphone is very poor... The three LCD-2's we had in one room did not sound the same at all... However we all agreed we liked Silver far more than Copper on these particular headphones.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





raysclim1568 said:


> I just ordered AUDEZE LCD2-2 from Moon Audio and expecting it to reach me in 2 weeks time .
> I have read thru' this forum thread to learnt that stock cable is not to the mark to bring out full potential of the LCD.
> 
> I have short listed few cable that I am considering , appreciate if you could give some advise which cable will be a good match for the Gear that i am using with LCD2.
> ...


 

 Hi Raymond,
   
  I've been using the X-dac + V200 + LCD-2 R1 with a straight 15ft Norse 4 Litz cable, and was absolutely great sounding. Unfortunately I can only compare it to the stock LCD-2 cable. The Xdac has left the building in the mean time, but that's another story.
  I suggest reading all the impressions here in this great thread to get an idea of how each cable sounds, unless you want to buy them all and compare them for us?


----------



## raysclim1568

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hello all , 
   
  I have email trevor to ask few questions , I am posting this so that I may be also could from you .
   
  1. please explain differences between Norn / Skuld / Litz cable 
  2. Are these silver or copper conductor cable?
   
  Just trying to learnt more on Norse Audio Cable to make decision between Toxic Poison Silver Cable and Silver Dragon Cable 
   
  Many thanks
  Raymond Lim


----------



## ianmedium

hennyo said:


> I've heard LCD-2 via Silver Dragon's, Crystal Piccolino, and APS Voice. All were incredible. I say go with a Silver cable. Heard them with DHC too. (Which is a good cable but not for the LCD-2 rev1's imo. Sounded good with Rev 2's though).
> 
> LCD-2's need it... They're just way too dark without it. But then, the driver matching upon each headphone is very poor... The three LCD-2's we had in one room did not sound the same at all... However we all agreed we liked Silver far more than Copper on these particular headphones.




It is interesting how we all differ. I found pure silver to make the LCD's sound, well just like normal headphones, they just did not sound as interesting to me. Perhaps I prefer the dark sound and other don't. What I found with the silver gold combo of the silver poison was that the details came through more but the gold seems to help retain the smooth, creamy character of the headphones which i think are one of the reasons to get them. If I wanted flat emotionless and analytical I would have gone for the HD800's!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Don't want to quibble, but Quables?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  LOL no way, everytime i heard people talk about ur cable, "quibble quabble" came in to my head everytime and now u said it.


----------



## sridhar3

This quibble over "Quables" will probably cause a squabble.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> This quibble over "Quables" will probably cause a squabble.


 

 Don't want to get into a squabble over this quibble over "Quables," so let me just quash it right now.
   
  se


----------



## Argo Duck

LOL @sridhar & Steve
   
  Btw Steve I continue to appreciate your _Quable's_ fine sonics and finish...I am glad to report my cat has ceased her appreciation of their - ahem - _cullinary_ qualities.


----------



## oqvist

Raymond go with flexibility. You don´t loose much if anything by using high quality adapters. It would be if you get the adapter hanging in the air and thus adding like an anchor but if it´s 5 feet that shouldn´t happen.
   
  Silver Dragon 3 and the Norse Audio litz both work excellent for me. Can´t find anything to complain regarding appearance of quality on either. Trevor is putting some kind of world record in customer service. Had the weirdest issue with my first Norse 4-wire cable where it was working flawless with my Rev2 but not my Rev1 where I only got sound out of the right driver. I suspect the main culprit was my Rev1 connector that for some reason would be incompatible with the neutrick HD connectors. I could switch them and still get no sound in the same driver... Trevor is getting it back to see if there is possible any wrong with it. I have used it with my Rev 2 without issue but he offered a replacement when I was just asking if he had any idea what could be happening despite mentioning how it works fine with the Rev 2. The replacement cable which I got with some hardcore switchcraft mini XLRs works great with my Rev1 but my Rev2 died before I was able to try it.  These switchcraft connectors is a fair bit longer. On the limit but it´s okay and not obstructive for use but requires a bit more care when putting them down.
   
  I was not to impressed with the Rev2 balanced out of my NFB10SE preferred it with the nice SE adapter I also ordered but the Rev1 had much better synergy with this amp. I would say both these cables are for those that like their LCD-2 as transparent as possible rather then adding warmth or shrillness. To my ears anyway the LCD-2 sound more neutral with these over the stock which is a bit more bassy and grainy.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> LOL @sridhar & Steve
> 
> I am glad to report my cat has ceased her appreciation of their - ahem - _cullinary_ qualities.


 
   
  Catnip's probably all gone out of them. Send 'em back and I'll give 'em a re-charge. No charge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Argo Duck

HA HA HA!


----------



## TigzStudio

"2. Are these silver or copper conductor cable?"
   
  We use up-occ copper right now. 
  All of our occ wire is manufactured by the well known and established Neotech. 
   
  For your other questions I have sent you a pm. 
  Quote: 





raysclim1568 said:


> Hello all ,
> 
> I have email trevor to ask few questions , I am posting this so that I may be also could from you .
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Don't want to get into a squabble over this quibble over "Quables," so let me just quash it right now.
> 
> se


 
  You need to quit quabbling over this Quable/Qable quibble!  While I have no qualm, the quandry over the question of quaint names is causing the quiet contemplation of other curious queries to be quickly quashed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have reached my "Q" quota in today's queue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## KingStyles

Just ordered the toxic silver/gold cable today. I think it might be just what the lcd3 need.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> Just ordered the toxic silver/gold cable today. I think it might be just what the lcd3 need.


 

 I love the Silver Dragon cable with my LCD-3s. Not sure about gold though...its a poorer conductor than both silver and copper. Not saying one way or another...just not sure. You'll have to report back and let us know.


----------



## ianmedium

Not sure what the gold content will do with the LCD3's but what I found comparing it to TWagV2 was that I got all the details, transparency speed of the TWag but none of the tiring feeling, it felt more emotional to me which is what I find the LCD's are king at. It lifted the mid range a little and the bass became a little tighter and more visceral.

Overall what I thought it did for my 2's was bring out more of what we all love about these phones but not turning them into something run of the mill, The TWag, to my ears ruined the LCD's as it made them uninteresting and lacking in emotion. These are just my thoughts of course, I know a great many here like the TWag.


----------



## googleli

I like Twag for my thicker sounding custom IEMs but never tried it on the LCDs. Still using the ALO 16 wire silver copper and quite happy with it.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





googleli said:


> I like Twag for my thicker sounding custom IEMs but never tried it on the LCDs. Still using the ALO 16 wire silver copper and quite happy with it.


 
  would there be much difference between 16 wire 14awg silver than lets say 4 wire 24 awg silver cable?? LOL


----------



## googleli

Quite a significant difference between the 8 wire and 16 wire ALOs based on my experience.


----------



## setamp

In what ways were they different?
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> Quite a significant difference between the 8 wire and 16 wire ALOs based on my experience.


----------



## scootermafia

Sup googleli!  You get your DX100 yet?


----------



## KingStyles

I would imagine the 16 wire alo cable would way twice as much.....about 5lbs maybe?


----------



## CanDude

The new [size=small]RED ASTRACHAN Impedance adapted[/size] [size=small]cable for AUDEZ'E headphones[/size] that I tried briefly at the Stockholm High End Show today can maybe remedy any lack of treble in LCD-3 somewhat. When I compared it with Q-Audio usig my LCD-3 and (their) V200 on very low volume in a room where they played loud music I still could hear the added treble and clarity (and sibilance too...) in the [size=small]RED ASTRACHAN cable. I will get one for review[/size]. I'll miss the comfort of the Q-Audio cable, though. That is if I decide to buy it... Can you own more than one aftermarket headphone cable for the LCDs?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This is all information I have for this cable at the moment (copied from a card):
   
*red astrachan*
_specs_
_silver plated multi-strand cable_
_50 ohms impedance_
_Teflon isolation_
_twisted pair configuration_
_silver soldering_
_high quality connectors (balanced available)_
_silver plated Cu braid shielding_
_ferromagnetic damping_
   
  Made and sold by KDM Marketing, Sweden
   
  White (at least the one at the show). Same contacts as Q-Audio.
  Priced lower than ALO (but higher than Q-Audio...), 3500 SEK.


----------



## Randall DZM

My roughly 5.5 ft. DHC molecule cable is going up for sale? Any interest? PM me with offers. It's in extremely good condition. Looking to get $140 shipped or so.


----------



## stumpjumper650

*[size=medium]I just ordered a custom cable from Frank at TOXIC Cables a very nice Guy and very reasonable with his prices very good cummunication. I will post my impressions over the stock cable after I get it and burn it in.[/size]*


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





stumpjumper650 said:


> *[size=medium]I just ordered a custom cable from Frank at TOXIC Cables a very nice Guy and very reasonable with his prices very good cummunication. I will post my impressions over the stock cable after I get it and burn it in.[/size]*


 


  nice. Using which wire?


----------



## ianmedium

Wonderful Stumpjumper. I love mine, nice to see another person enter the toxic fold


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





candude said:


> The new [size=small]RED ASTRACHAN Impedance adapted[/size] [size=small]cable for AUDEZ'E headphones[/size] that I tried briefly at the Stockholm High End Show today can maybe remedy any lack of treble in LCD-3 somewhat. When I compared it with Q-Audio usig my LCD-3 and (their) V200 on very low volume in a room where they played loud music I still could hear the added treble and clarity (and sibilance too...) in the [size=small]RED ASTRACHAN cable. I will get one for review[/size]. I'll miss the comfort of the Q-Audio cable, though. That is if I decide to buy it... Can you own more than one aftermarket headphone cable for the LCDs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Are there any photographs of the cable. By "50 ohms impedance" does it mean there are 50 ohms resistors soldered as part of the plug, in other words an "impedance adapter" is part of the cable?


----------



## stumpjumper650

Toxic, Audeze LCD-2 3.5 meter silver SPC cable


----------



## DarknightDK

Just received the Norse Norn 8-wire for my LCD-3 from Trevor today. First off, Trevor is a GREAT guy to deal with and promptly answers all questions with good, unbiased advise and recommendation.
   
  Packaging of the cables is first rate. Extremely well packaged, with an extra layer of protection on all connectors. Even the beautiful zebra wood splitter was wrapped in some sort of velvet material to protect it during shipping. Then there is the soft velvet bag to store the cables in.
   
  I'm also very impressed with the workmanship of the Norse cables. They are very, very well made and everything just screams quality. The braids are tight and the chosen brown/black cotton sleeving looks gorgeous with my LCD-3. They are also very flexible, light and ergonomic, definitely a huge step up from the stock audeze cables which were too stiff for my liking. The Norse cables just don't get in the way. I'll let the cables burn-in before I post any impressions, but first impressions (based on looks) is a huge plus for me.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

OHHHHHHH...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Just got my Q in! I only listened a little bit and it hasn't burnt in but I hear a little change. Subtle is the word. I don't hear any bass, treble changes. More so, I hear a slightly bigger sound-stage and a veil has been lifted for a little more clarity. As of now, it's not night and day. I could still listen to the stock cord but it's inferior and don't want to.
   
  I put some Lady Gaga singles on and could hear a little change for the better but it was subtle and hard to make sure it's what I was hearing. I put Lily Allen's Smile and right away could hear the sound-stage and clarity improve a little. I then put on Abbey Road (24-bit). Something, Maxwell's Silver Hammer...again, subtle. THEN, I put on Come Together and I could hear the Q was better. It was really the clarity. Again, little, but it was better. I then put on Come Together in normal 16-bit and again, you could hear the Q was better. That's what happens when you buy aftermarket cord/cables and such after you spend a lot on the main gear. The price is lower as are the improvements but they are there.
   
  The colors look even better than in the pictures. I had chosen Gold/Black and got a sample. I really liked it but didn't think it suited the LCD-2 so much. I thought it had a Asian sorta look. Steve showed me a cable he made with a Brown and Gold retro look and I modeled it after that. BOY DOES IT LOOK GOOD! It makes ME feel classy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It is much more comfortable than the stock. It's so light and actually feels nice against the skin unlike the stock cable. It is also easier to disconnect it from the LCD-2 over the stock. I was going to compare the Q and the Silver Moon V3. I have the money but will get something that is less comfortable and looks boring. I am not sure what silver will do for me. I DON'T want it any brighter. I really like the way it sounds now. It's on the table, anyway...
   
  As for pictures, because I've been putting my money in other places and lack of time, I haven't been able to pick a good camera out so I will just use Steve's pictures for now but I hope to get some pictures up at a later time. Steve, BTW, is very nice and fun to talk too. I learnt a lot about cables and him. I ordered and paid for a four foot from the Y split and he actually gave me 5'3" altogether. Almost as tall as me! He's cool...and a fast shipper! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This is the sample...
   

   
  And he gave me this classic looking amp connecter just like his interconnects too. It looks so good with the retro colors. I think he's a genius. THANKS STEVE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Oh, and RIP Whitney Houston.


----------



## CanDude

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Are there any photographs of the cable. By "50 ohms impedance" does it mean there are 50 ohms resistors soldered as part of the plug, in other words an "impedance adapter" is part of the cable?


 

 There's a picture of the red astrachan cable with LCD-2 here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/595545/can-session-at-stockholm-high-end-show-2012-impressions#post_8139887 (yep, the cable is _white_)
   
  I don't know if there are any resistors in the (Neutrik) plug, but I don't think so. I think it's the cable itself that is 50 ohm, like an antenna cable.


----------



## rgs9200m

Has anyone tried the APS (A Pure Sound) cable for Audezes (LCD2 or LCD3)? Any impressions?
  It does not seem that anyone has done so and mentioned it here. I used to like the APS cable a lot for my 650s and 600s long ago, that's why I ask.


----------



## Audiowood

I would suggest you try Q audio cable by Steve Eddy. I have been using the cable and it's sound fantastic... best of all made its made with cotton sleeves and one of the lightest cable in the market today. This is especially important for LCD-2/3 as they already weight a ton. At times I forgot there is even a cable .. it just feels right.


----------



## ianmedium

And to add balance I would suggest Toxic cables silver poison, I have had great results with that cable.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> And to add balance I would suggest Toxic cables silver poison, I have had great results with that cable.


 
  lol if they read the actual thread they will see u have said that over 100 times...


----------



## ianmedium

I wonder if you read how many times the other ones get a mention, I think you would see it is a great deal more! I like the cable and want others to understand there is more than just two or three makers of cables. I think the others get mentioned way more than I mention this cable. I wonder why you don't pick up on them???


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I wonder if you read how many times the other ones get a mention, I think you would see it is a great deal more! I like the cable and want others to understand there is more than just two or three makers of cables. I think the others get mentioned way more than I mention this cable. I wonder why you don't pick up on them???


 
  lol i dono because i dont like the other cables


----------



## antonze

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> lol if they read the actual thread they will see u have said that over 100 times...


 

  
  It worked on me at least!
  ianmedium> I'm thinking about ordering some toxic cables thanks to your toxico-viral scheme 
  Is the OCC silver/gold (150gbp) a very big improvement over the SPC copper/silver (75 gbp) cable?
  If I read you correctly, the later did'nt improve the sound at all over the stock cable...
   
  (I'm using: Yulong D-100>Heed Canamp>Lcd-2.2)


----------



## MorbidToaster

Does anyone have experience with Chris_Himself's cables? I love my Q cable, but I'm curious to try a silver one. His prices seem fantastic, and the cables look gorgeous.


----------



## KingStyles

I should have a toxic cable on teusday. Its the silver/gold one. I will see how it differs from the q cable.


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> I should have a toxic cable on teusday. Its the silver/gold one. I will see how it differs from the q cable.


 


  Looking forward to your comparison.


----------



## ianmedium

antonze said:


> It worked on me at least!
> ianmedium> I'm thinking about ordering some toxic cables thanks to your toxico-viral scheme
> Is the OCC silver/gold (150gbp) a very big improvement over the SPC copper/silver (75 gbp) cable?
> If I read you correctly, the later did'nt improve the sound at all over the stock cable...
> ...





You know, Honestly I can't answer your question as the only cable i have from them is the silver poison. I liked the stock cable but I found the Silver Poison to allow more detail and transparency to come through but unlike the TWag V2 I borrowed at the same time it did not bring fatigue or edginess to the experience. For me, now I have had it for quite some time it just made all that I love about the LCD's shine more. I went back to try the stock cable and it does feel a little more closed in to my ears and perhaps the darkness some people have found with the rev1's can be attributed to the stock cable. I would not go back as I love what it has brought to the mid range in terms of detail and intimacy. Sorry I could not answer your question though.

One thing, If all other pure silver cables are like the TWag for my listening tastes I would not want them as it ruined the balance of the sound I felt.


----------



## antonze

Thanks for your answer anyway. I guess I'll give the silver poison a try 
  I will assume that if the stock cable is already made of copper, it doesn't make much sense changing for another copper one for 75 gbp (judging by this comment, perhaps you can guess that I'm completely new to the hi-fi scene. Sorry if I'm being stupid!)


----------



## ianmedium

antonze said:


> Thanks for your answer anyway. I guess I'll give the silver poison a try
> I will assume that if the stock cable is already made of copper, it doesn't make much sense changing for another copper one for 75 gbp (judging by this comment, perhaps you can guess that I'm completely new to the hi-fi scene. Sorry if I'm being stupid!)




Not being stupid at all, it is a minefield out there with this stuff. Heck I have heard different copper cables sound different and i have no idea why!


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





antonze said:


> Thanks for your answer anyway. I guess I'll give the silver poison a try
> I will assume that if the stock cable is already made of copper, it doesn't make much sense changing for another copper one for 75 gbp (judging by this comment, perhaps you can guess that I'm completely new to the hi-fi scene. Sorry if I'm being stupid!)


 

 If you tried something like the Q cable's ergonomics, you would switch in a second. For comfort, the stock cable is teh suck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But I believe every high-end aftermarket cable will offer an improvement for sound. Mine did and it's copper.


----------



## scottmac62

Has anyone compared the Norse 8 wire to the Q Audio cable?  If so, which cable
  is more rich in in the vocal midband?


----------



## drez

If you are looking for a cable with smooth/rich mids I would say the 6 or 8 wire Norn will most likely fit the bill.  I found the 6 more neutral in balance and the 8 weighted more toward the lower mids and bass. 
   
  Ian would probably be able to tell you about the silver poison but unfortunately I have not tried it.
   
  I can't reacall the sound of the Q, from memory it was quite neutral and transparent in the mids, compared to stock cable, with less bloom in the bass also.  More of a neutral tonal balance but with better midrange clarity due to the absence of [excessive] bass bloom.


----------



## scottmac62

Thanks Drez,
   
  What is the pricing on the Norse 8?  There is no info on their web site.
  Not even contact info.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





scottmac62 said:


> Thanks Drez,
> 
> What is the pricing on the Norse 8?  There is no info on their web site.
> Not even contact info.


 

  
  http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001682448235
  Email: norseaudio@gmail.com
   
  Contact Trevor for pricing info


----------



## scottmac62

Drez, did you find the Norse cable to be smoother compared to the
  stock cable?  I am a little confused because a lot of members say
  that the ALO cable tilts the highs and adds glare.  I have also heard
  that members are saying the ALO and Norse sound the same.  
   
  So, do you find the Norse to tilt the treble to the hot side?


----------



## ianmedium

scottmac62 said:


> Has anyone compared the Norse 8 wire to the Q Audio cable?  If so, which cable
> is more rich in in the vocal midband?




Sorry, I know I seem to be the lone voice always going on about this cable but the Silver Poison is stunning in this regard, I would say it is it's best feature and trounces the pure silver cable i compared it to!


----------



## KingStyles

I received my silver poison cable today. I think it is a keeper. Does anybody want to buy a q cable? Oh well, back to mass effect 3.


----------



## darren700

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Does anyone have experience with Chris_Himself's cables? I love my Q cable, but I'm curious to try a silver one. His prices seem fantastic, and the cables look gorgeous.


 

  
   
  Chris recabled my D2000's and did an awesome job. He is very quick to respond and gladly answered all of my questions (I had alot).
  The cable itself looks awesome, is very well made, and his attention to detail is top notch. However with it being solid silver core it is microphonic and very stiff which sometimes makes the cable an annoyance. 
   
  Also, i ordered a Norse Norn  8 Wire for my LCD2v2s. This is an amazing cable, Was packaged amazingly and the looks of the cable is just jaw dropping IMO. For Ergonomics, Its like this cable isn't even there its so light, and no microphonics at all!. (Wish i could say the same thing about the LCD2's!). Sounds great to me, although i did not compare it to the stock cable (i received the LCD2's and cable in the same day)
  Trevor is also a great guy, responding very quickly and fully answering all my questions, cant recommend norse audio enough!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> I received my silver poison cable today. I think it is a keeper. Does anybody want to buy a q cable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 mass effect 3? demo? anyway.....what differences stood out between that and the q cable


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza




----------



## drez

Quote: 





scottmac62 said:


> Drez, did you find the Norse cable to be smoother compared to the
> stock cable?  I am a little confused because a lot of members say
> that the ALO cable tilts the highs and adds glare.  I have also heard
> that members are saying the ALO and Norse sound the same.
> ...


 
   



Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
  The Norn 8 wire is undeniably smoother than the stock cable as well as cleaner and more open sounding.  The subjective amount of bass is similar to the stock cable but more dynamic, detailed and of greater impact. 
   
  Also worth noting is which cable is being described, how many wires, which ALO is being compared to etc.  IME the 8 wire Norse Audio Norn is more smooth and warm than, the 6 and that in turm more smooth and warm than the 4 wire.
   
  The word Glare itself belies an aversion to what is perceived to be excessive illumination or a lack of "comfortable darkness" to use John Darko's term.  
   
  I'm not certain this "comfortable darkness" is the design goal of the Norn, but this is also not a silver or silver plated copper cable - it is copper Litz - which is explicitly meant not to emphasise (or de-emphasise) any particular frequency.
   
  I would say that the 8 wire Norn is smooth and slightly warm in bass response and not tilted in the upper-mids treble at all, and quite different to the 4 and 6 wire versions.  Comments about the 4 and 6 wire versions do not directly relate to the 8 wire.
   
  Googleli is probably a good person to ask about the similarities and differences between the 8 wire Norn and 16 wire ALO.   
   


  I am probably not the best person to ask about the 8 wire Norn as I only had a brief audition for a couple of days, but I definitely would not call the treble hot or glary.  You can read the above for some useless ramblings not directly related to this question.


----------



## ianmedium

kingstyles said:


> I received my silver poison cable today. I think it is a keeper. Does anybody want to buy a q cable? Oh well, back to mass effect 3.




What a relief, another person who likes it! I am really happy for you. I have no desire to change mine for anything else. it ticks all my sonic desire boxes! Can't wait for more thoughts from you on it!


----------



## Randall DZM

Feeler for a 6 ft. Silver Dragon? Any takers? Looking for $210 shipped. It has a furutech 1/4" plug and LCD-2 terminations from moon audio.


----------



## scottmac62

Hey Ian,  what did you pay for your Toxic cable?


----------



## ianmedium

scottmac62 said:


> Hey Ian,  what did you pay for your Toxic cable?




Mine came to CAD $213 I also had them make an adaptor and terminate the cable balanced for my SR71-B The adapter is so that I can use my cable with single ended amps if I wish. That was included but I had them do a shorter run cable as I did not need long length so Frank kindly charged me the same as a normal 6 foot which I thought was nice of him.

Build quality is outstanding. This cable has been packed up so many times to accompany me on work related travels and a vacation not including the daily use at home. I went for the fully shielded version which Frank said would be a little less flexible than the unshielded but I find it fine. I don't tend to move about when listening this way anyway.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





randall dzm said:


> Feeler for a 6 ft. Silver Dragon? Any takers? Looking for $210 shipped. It has a furutech 1/4" plug and LCD-2 terminations from moon audio.


 

 i already have a 6ft silver dragon.....IN MY TROUSERS.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


oprwtos said:


> i already have a 6ft silver dragon.....IN MY TROUSERS.


----------



## drgajet

Doesn't the silver make it kinda stiff?


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





drgajet said:


> Doesn't the silver make it kinda stiff?


 
  only if its solid core i think
   
  solid core......


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Don't tell us. You've got solid core in your trousers too, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha, how u know


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





oprwtos said:


> i already have a 6ft silver dragon.....IN MY TROUSERS.


 

 If you don't let it out once in a while, it might become a Blue Dragon...then eventually, a Black Dragon.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> If you don't let it out once in a while, it might become a Blue Dragon...then eventually, a Black Dragon.


----------



## drgajet

Now that's funny!!!!!!!!!
  Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> If you don't let it out once in a while, it might become a Blue Dragon...then eventually, a Black Dragon.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> I received my silver poison cable today. I think it is a keeper. Does anybody want to buy a q cable?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can you explain why you feel the Poison is better than the Q? I am so impressed by my Q I never ordered the Silver Dragon V3 for comparison.


----------



## Randall DZM

Quote: 





devarika woulf said:


> Can you explain why you feel the Poison is better than the Q? I am so impressed by my Q I never ordered the Silver Dragon V3 for comparison.


 


  Would you be interested in a Silver Dragon V. 3? I'll be selling mine for $210 shipped.


----------



## KingStyles

> Can you explain why you feel the Poison is better than the Q? I am so impressed by my Q I never ordered the Silver Dragon V3 for comparison.




I will probably do some comparisons this weekend. To busy gaming right now. It seemed to have a little more treble and air. It also seemed like the soundstage was improved with better layering/positioning. I have to listen and compare more since I just got rid of my lcd3 and have to get used to the lcd2r2 again. It seemed the soundstage and positioning was better with the s.p. cable, making the lcd2r2 much like my lcd3. It could be my imagination until I compare the 2 cables more though.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Very interesting. Look forward to it.


----------



## raysclim1568

Hello all , just received my toxic silver poison cable from frank . 
As frank explain to me , this cable that i received is unique as he uses new dielectric that provide durability and he also changes how the strands are laid out which has more twist to it now , he found these improvement have improved the sound further . 

I listen to it once i got it this afternoon , without burning in , comparing to stock cable , soundstage , clarity , bass extention and treble is just reaching new dimension. 
I am sure that it will just got better in times 

I am very happy with it and the touch on the cable jacket felt so smooth and nice . 
I do not have the current silver poison cable to compare with my improved version, 
But frank sure knows it better to confirm it , so before frank raises the price for the better material . Hurry up ！！

Will post update when the cable have 160 hours on it 

Cheers ,, raymond


----------



## raysclim1568

Quote: 





raysclim1568 said:


> Hello all , just received my toxic silver poison cable from frank .
> As frank explain to me , this cable that i received is unique as he uses new dielectric that provide durability and he also changes how the strands are laid out which has more twist to it now , he found these improvement have improved the sound further .
> 
> I listen to it once i got it this afternoon , without burning in , comparing to stock cable , soundstage , clarity , bass extention and treble is just reaching new dimension.
> ...


 


  going to order a pair of Audeze to Hifiman Adapter from Frank so that I could use the same cable for two wonderful headphone ( LCD2-2 and HE500 ) . that's great !


----------



## setamp

Do you find this cable alters the tonality of the LCD2's?  Is it bright/dark/neutral?


----------



## raysclim1568

Quote: 





setamp said:


> Do you find this cable alters the tonality of the LCD2's?  Is it bright/dark/neutral?


 


  per my listening , I found it is very neutral , it does not alter the tonality of LCD2 but it expand the 3 frequency very well. 
   
  Bass is more extended and firm , Mid is smoother , treble extended and roll of nicely. 
  big improvement on soundstage and imaging . and background is dead quiet.....
   
  I think it should be the main characteristic of cable ..... to be as neutral as possible ,.and leave the sound tone tuning to selection of AMP and DAC .
   
  Thanks


----------



## ianmedium

raysclim1568 said:


> per my listening , I found it is very neutral , it does not alter the tonality of LCD2 but it expand the 3 frequency very well.
> 
> Bass is more extended and firm , Mid is smoother , treble extended and roll of nicely.
> big improvement on soundstage and imaging . and background is dead quiet.....
> ...




That has been my findings. I found the Twag to add something that I did not want to the LCD's, namely, harshness. The way I would describe the silver poison effect is that it compliments the LCD's rather than changes them fundamentally. It allows the goodness we all know and love to shine more. Balance is the other word I would use. The sound is better balanced I feel.

It is interesting to hear Frank has developed the cable more, would love to try that one out!


----------



## scottmac62

Ian, are you using a tube or a solid state amp?  I think it is important state which type of amp is driving your phones when voicing an
  opinion on different cables.  I have a solid state Naim Headline headphone amp, and a highly resolving and holographic Bel Canto Dac 3.5 VBS.
  So, I definitely do not want to lose any weight or warmth in my system.  From my experience, all silver cables I have tried were always on the
  cooler side of neutral.


----------



## ianmedium

Good point Scott!
I am using a balanced RSA SR71-B solid state amp. I agree as well, the TWag I had on extended loan at the same time as getting the silver poison pretty much lost all the lovely warmth and feeling and weight that I love about the LCD's. 

The Silver poison has 1% gold added to it's construction and to my ears that gave me the warmth and emotion I love balancing out the added detail and PRaT (being a lover of Naim you know all about that!) that the silver gives, least I assume that is what the Gold does!

I have a lot of knowledge of Naim amps as one of my systems when I lived in the UK was Naim. I would actually describe the SR71 as a cross between Naim and Krell in terms of sound style if that helps.

BTW, I have mentioned on numerous occasions what my set up is but I understand it can get lost in the threads. If you just look at my sig you will see my set up.


----------



## scottmac62

Thanks Ian, 
  So, would you say that it has the same amount of weight as the original cable?  Also, how about the ergonomics.  Its looks like it would be on the 
  heavy side.


----------



## scottmac62

Sorry, let me clarify that first sentence.  By weight, I meant bass weight.


----------



## ianmedium

scottmac62 said:


> Sorry, let me clarify that first sentence.  By weight, I meant bass weight.




I would say about the same bass weight, it just feels a little tighter and controlled, I guess a good word would be more defined.

As to ergonomics. I have to admit I have a short run, four feet as that is all I need. Mine has the shielding as well and Frank said it has a little less flexibility over the non shielded version. It is not stiff by any means but it is not as flexible as the stock cable. From what I hear the unshielded is more flexible and apparently the sound quality is the same with both.

Of course I have since learned that Frank has upgraded the cable so I am not sure what the new one is like in terms of flexibility. I am mighty tempted to try out the new one though!


----------



## antonze

Hi!
  Just got the new Silver Poison (6ft).
  I cannot comment on the sound yet as my lcd-2's are under repairs,
  but the flexibility on the cable is excellent, it's far less stiff than the stock one.
  the last 20 cm or so (from the divide to the left/right plugs) are very thin cables covered with sturdy plastic, so take care if you have children or cats around


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ordered the Q-audio. Hopin it come soon. Ordered it on feburary 28.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

You should get it soon. Steve was quick. Took about a 9 days for me after 3 weeks of us talking about what I would order.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ya Im being an impatient child waitin for my new toy haha.


----------



## powerlifter450

I purchased a cable from Charleston cable company on Ebay. It arrived quickly. It had a furutech single end and it really brought out that extra detail and clarity in the lcd2. i didn't think it was possible for them to sound any better. after I bought this cable I'm a believer!!


----------



## ianmedium

Cool, very much looking forward to your thoughts, there can't be too many cable companies as far as I am concerned. The more there are the greater the chance of us consumers finding what is exactly right for us!


----------



## powerpopper

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001682448235
> Email: norseaudio@gmail.com
> 
> Contact Trevor for pricing info


 


  Good luck with that. Sent him two emails to place an order and never got a reply.


----------



## TigzStudio

Recently we have had issues with our spam filter, you have a PM.
  Quote: 





powerpopper said:


> Good luck with that. Sent him two emails to place an order and never got a reply.


----------



## powerpopper

Quote: 





tigzstudio said:


> Recently we have had issues with our spam filter, you have a PM.


 


  Thanks. I've replied.


----------



## stumpjumper650

*[size=medium]Speed, detail, clarity, if your LCD's sound veiled try the Toxic SPC cable it really opened up the treble over the stock cable everything is better I do not think you can get a better cable for your LCD's for any ware near the price I love it and I think you will to. For the price try it you can't go wrong! [/size]*


----------



## antonze

Oh well, now that sounded like a commercial! Let's see now...
   
I just got my LCD-2's fresh from repair (btw: thank you _Alo Audio_, what an awesome service! It took exactly one week to send back the cans from UK to USA and get a replacement pair shipped back, for free!)... and thus could try my *Toxic Silver Poison cable* (pure occ silver), at last.
   
With my original LCD-2's, I had the "old" stock cable, very thick and stiff. With the new cans came the new (?) stock cable, a very thin and flexible "flat" cable, looking quite cheap tbh.
   
OK, so on to the Silver Poison cable.
It's the first time I've been using a custom cable in my life, and I'm also quite new to the whole audiophile affair, so please bear with me if what I write here seems stupid.
I had absolutely no prejudice on custom cables, and wanted to try one to see for myself if it really affects the sound.
   
Well, it does.
   
Long story short: the Silver Poison gives amplitude to the sound. The whole sound feels more firm and powerful. The instruments separation gets better, and above all, the highs are more refined and present. Overall, it's quite an improvement, except perhaps for the fact that the "extra" bonus in the treble section can emphasize sibilance on tracks very prone to the problem. LCD-2's with the stock cable are almost never sibilant, which makes everything a pleasure to listen to with them. With the silver cable, it can go just the extra bit on those tracks to make the sibilance apparent.
Don't get me wrong: the cable won't magically transform the LCD-2's into bright headphones. It's just that the extra clarity that it conveys on every level can push forward some treble peaks that you didn't get to "feel" with the original cabling.
Is it a good or bad thing, I can't say. Overall, I am very pleased with the new cable, particularly with classical music which I sometimes found a bit underperforming with the LCD-2's because of the narrow soundstage and oh-so-slight (but nevertheless real) recessed treble.
   
   
(Some) tracks used for comparison:
  Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong - _Solitude _: better texture and imaging on the whole, clearer sound. Extended treble, but the sibilant peaks on the vocals are more present.
Bireli Lagrene - _Limehouse blues_ : far better texture with the new cable, slightly harsh treble peaks on some guitar picks (I mean harsher than with the stock cable. Nothing painful .
Pearl Jam -_ Of the girl_ (binaural recording) : Mh... Far better instruments separation and clearer sound, but the extra treble somehow bothered me.
Metallica - _Master of puppets_ : Here, I wander if the slightly "veiled' and muddier sound of the stock cable doesn't work better... Uh, but the custom cable sounds so much clearer...
Austra - _Beat and the pulse_: again, big improvement on the treble, but I wander if I didn't prefer the muddier sound of the stock cable for that kind of music (electro).
J.S. Bach - Cantate BWV71 : the biggest improvement with the new cable. The voices are much clearer without ever being too much.
Alexander Scriabin - Sonate no 5 (Sviatoslav Richter) : again, clearer sound on the whole spectrum.
  Robert Schumann - Violin concert in D minor (Szeryng, Dorati): better imaging, far clearer highs. Magnificent violin.
   
My very personal and subjective conclusion would be: if you're listening only to metal/electro, you can stick to the stock cable. For everything else, the change is worth it.
   
PS: Please bear in mind that my opinions might also be influenced by the difference (?) in sound with my "old" LCD-2's which were thorougly burnt in before I got them, whereas those I used for cable comparison are brand new. I have no experience on LCD-2's burn in and its relevance: they may or may not sound "brighter" and thus influence my impressions. I really can't say... 
   
Sound chain: Flac>Yulong D-100>Heed Canamp>LCD-2 rev.2.
   
  PPS: one minor drawback of the Silver Poison : the separation point of the cable where the thick part turns into two thin white plastic cables is quite BIG, quite heavy, and keeps getting stuck in the clothes, table et al. More than a bit annoying.
  EDIT: If you fear this part is going to be as annoying to you than it is to me, Frank can make a "ferret-free" version of the cable without it. Be sure to tell him about what you want!!!


----------



## MusiCol

Hi, I'm just wondering whether anyone has taken the plunge and bought the Toxic Cables flagship "Venom" cable - with its 8 solid rectangular 18awg pure OCC silver conductors? It looks completely OTT - but I must admit, that really appeals to me!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





musicol said:


> Hi, I'm just wondering whether anyone has taken the plunge and bought the Toxic Cables flagship "Venom" cable - with its 8 solid rectangular 18awg pure OCC silver conductors? It looks completely OTT - but I must admit, that really appeals to me!


 
  yh it looks really nice i wish i could have it for my k701 lol
   
  also im wondering if toxic cables guy can wire the silver poison cable to my k701's and also replace the internal wires...


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





musicol said:


> Hi, I'm just wondering whether anyone has taken the plunge and bought the Toxic Cables flagship "Venom" cable - with its 8 solid rectangular 18awg pure OCC silver conductors? It looks completely OTT - but I must admit, that really appeals to me!


 

 Do you know just how thick that is? That'd literally be hanging speaker cable off your head.  And solid wire? Are you kidding?


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Do you know just how thick that is? That'd literally be hanging speaker cable off your head.  And solid wire? Are you kidding?


 

 18 gauge is only 1mm but there are 8 of them.....and they are packed inside two nylon multifilament sleevings each 2 wires. Currawong u should get one to try.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





musicol said:


> Hi, I'm just wondering whether anyone has taken the plunge and bought the Toxic Cables flagship "Venom" cable - with its 8 solid rectangular 18awg pure OCC silver conductors? It looks completely OTT - but I must admit, that really appeals to me!


 

 How strong is your neck?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Thanks for your impressions. Would be interesting to know if there are any changes after a few hundred hours of use.
  Quote: 





antonze said:


> Oh well, now that sounded like a commercial! Let's see now...
> 
> I just got my LCD-2's fresh from repair (btw: thank you _Alo Audio_, what an awesome service! It took exactly one week to send back the cans from UK to USA and get a replacement pair shipped back, for free!)... and thus could try my *Toxic Silver Poison cable* (pure occ silver), at last.
> 
> ...


----------



## palchiu

Love Q~ in Vomit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   
   
  Steve!  Thank you so much!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


palchiu said:


>


 

 LOL.  So you're the one who bought that!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> LOL.  So you're the one who bought that!


 

 Shhhhhh! Don't raise his suspicions. I told him it was a special commission from Jackson Pollock (he doesn't know Pollock died in '56). If I have to refund his $30,000, I'm going to be quite pissed.
   
  se


----------



## scootermafia

The Puke-Braid of legend is real!


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Love Q~ in Vomic


 
   
  OMG, you got that one? When Steve showed me it, I thought he was about to hit the nuthouse. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It honestly looks sort of pretty.


----------



## Girls Generation

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Deverica Wolf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> It honestly looks sort of pretty.


----------



## OPrwtos

hey!!!!!! where did toxic cable guys comment go???


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





girls generation said:


>


 
   
*DERP?*


----------



## palchiu

Real thing is really better looking than pics...


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Real thing is really better looking than pics...


 
  Steve said the same thing...so it must be true.


----------



## Lenni

it's a monstrosity.


----------



## jfrocke

Does Toxic Cables still offer the "4 wire" Venom model?  I don't see it listed on their eBay store or website.
   
  I am pretty much decided on the Poison silver cable (don't really want to spend the 8-wire Venom money and I'm also afraid it will be too bulky.


----------



## powerpopper

Got my Toxic Silver Poison cable today and it is lovely.


----------



## Shubar

Just ordered some Q-Cables, now the wait!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


shubar said:


> Just ordered some Q-Cables, now the wait!


 

 Might take a while.  Steve's really really old, and his hands shake a lot these days.  Add to that the fact that he's a hopeless narcoleptic, often falling asleep whilst making cables, and you have a recipe for disaster.  I hear one time he fell asleep with a soldering iron in his hand and woke up with a cable attached to his face.
   
  I keed, I keed.  I'm sure you'll love your new cable.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Might take a while.  Steve's really really old, and his hands shake a lot these days.  Add to that the fact that he's a hopeless narcoleptic, often falling asleep whilst making cables, and you have a recipe for disaster.  I hear one time he fell asleep with a soldering iron in his hand and woke up with a cable attached to his face.
> 
> I keed, I keed.  ...


 

 Yup, great cables, but I'll bet they're not really that easy to attach to your face.  ;-0


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Yup, great cables, but I'll bet they're not really that easy to attach to your face.  ;-0


 

 Oh no, I found that cotton attaches to smoldering flesh quite well. 
   
  se


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Yup, great cables, but I'll bet they're not really that easy to attach to your face.  ;-0


 

 HOLY CRAP!  Where have you been?!
   
  Glad to have you back.


----------



## paradoxper

Got my Q in yesterday! Super pleased with Steve's work.
  It's the (puny) Norn V2  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Not much of burn in or anything but I hear a veil lifted, soundstage is bigger. The cable just gets out of the way and let's the music go.
  This is the most comfortable cable I've ever owned and will probably ever own. Ergonomics on Q cables take the cake by a wide margin over any other aftermarket cable.
  May post more impressions after a hundred or so hours.


----------



## TigzStudio

lol nice!
   
  Not the right color of the v2 however.


----------



## paradoxper

No, this is V2. New batch with new outer jacket color.


----------



## CanDude

No Neutrik plug?


----------



## Teufelshunde

Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3
  Nice sonic synergy w/ the LCD-3s


----------



## Randall DZM

Quote: 





teufelshunde said:


> Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3
> Nice sonic synergy w/ the LCD-3s


 
  I agree. It sounds very good.


----------



## Shubar

What's this business with "V2" of the Q-cables? Are their different options and versions?
   
  Regards


----------



## jakesums

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Got my Q in yesterday! Super pleased with Steve's work.
> It's the (puny) Norn V2
> 
> 
> ...


 


   


  Quote: 





candude said:


> No Neutrik plug?


 

 Is that not a Rean plug?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





teufelshunde said:


> Moon Audio Silver Dragon v3
> Nice sonic synergy w/ the LCD-3s


 


  Absolutely, I've been using this cable with LCD-2 rev1 for almost a year now.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





jakesums said:


> Is that not a Rean plug?


 

 Yes, that's a Rean plug with a custom ebonite barrel. It's a "vintage" option that hasn't been added to the website yet. I'll do that this weekend.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





shubar said:


> What's this business with "V2" of the Q-cables? Are their different options and versions?


 
   
  No V2 Q. Same cable. Just different color/pattern for the cotton jacketing. A while back someone came to us and said they liked the pattern on the Norse Norn, and could we do the same pattern. I said yes and had our braiders make up some using the same medium brown/black of the Norn (this was also the same time I had the "Jackson Pollock" braid made purely for my own amusement). A short time later I had another batch made using the same pattern, but with dark brown/black. Someone posted an excerpt of an EMail from Norse saying they were out of their original Norn cable and would be coming out with a V2 Norn. It also said that the V2 would use the same pattern, but dark brown/black, which is what paradoxper's cables were made using and that's where his "V2" comment comes from.
   
  My apologies for any confusion.
   
  se


----------



## MorbidToaster

Still rocking my Q Purple People Eater cable. 
   
  While I had a lot of people comment on the sound of my LCD 2s out of my LF I had even more people comment on the cable. They loved it to death at the Austin meet. A few people said they wanted to order one, and the owner of the K1000 even wanted a set with a fresh end so he could rewire his cans with it. 
   
  It was nice to know my love of Steve's cable wasn't just internet fluff. It went over really well (especially since I had the only 4 pin LCD 2 cable there.  )


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Still rocking my Q Purple People Eater cable.


 

 It's funny how things work out. Both the purple cables and the "Jackson Pollock" cables started life as something I did purely for my own amusement.
   
  Our local NBA team is the Sacramento Kings. Their colors are purple, black, and silver. So I had my braiders make up two braids, one purple with black tracers and the other purple with silver gray tracers. And I made myself a set of Sacramento Kings cables. Then someone wanted a set of HE-6 cables and asked what color I would recommend. I said seeing as the HE-6's are black, I'd opt for black. They replied saying the HE-6's weren't actually black, but a really really dark plum purple. I jokingly replied, showing them a photo of my Sacramento Kings cables. Even though the purple wasn't anything like the purple of the HE-6's, they said that's the cable they wanted. That was surprising enough. I NEVER thought I'd see someone go so far as to put purple felt in their LCD-2's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Jackson Pollock started out as my attempt to make the ugliest cable in the world. So I told my braiders to grab sixteen colors off the shelf at random, throw them on the braider in no particular order and turn it loose. What I originally had in mind was that ugly-ass carpet padding that's made using numerous colors of scrap foam. Shortly after I'd received it, someone asked me about cable color options. I pointed them to the thread sample page on the website, and jokingly said if they couldn't make up their mind what color they wanted, I could always make them the carpet pad cable. And I'll be damned if they didn't say that's what they wanted. And truth be told, it actually started to grow on me as well. So I was forced to chalk up the world's ugliest cable project as a failure. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So yeah, funny how things work out.
   
  se


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> So I was forced to chalk up the world's ugliest cable project as a failure.


 
   
  I disagree.  Your cable resulted in my going blind.


----------



## MorbidToaster

At least you'll never have to look at it again. 
   
  Also, I nominate the Audeze stock cable (the 'ribbon') as worst looking cable. That thing is a pile of crap.
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I disagree.  Your cable resulted in my going blind.


----------



## palchiu

Steve, how about Rainbow braided?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





palchiu said:


> Steve, how about Rainbow braided?


 

 Ask her to lean over a little further. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## rgs9200m

I am reposting this from my reply in the big LCD3 thread, as I think it might apply. Thanks for reading.
  ----------------------------------------------
*Great cable for Audeze LCD3 I have found : Enigma Apex.*
   
  OK, the latest thing I have for my LCD3s is an Enigma Audio Apex headphone cable and at first listen (just an hour or so) it is great! It really targets upper mid glare from vocals that really bothers me (like in a sustained note or a high pitched voice or a falsetto)
  and is just the thing for the new improved (RMA'd, latest "version") LCD3 character (extended highs, no suppressed highs). It maintains all the resolution and staging and that great satisfying low bass and all the Audeze liquidity.
  It reminds me of the aspects of HD650s I liked, meaning no fatigue, but with far more detail and life. So, if what you are looking for is an completely fatigue free sound that still digs deep, I would recommend these Enigma cables.
  The cable is very sturdy very well built slightly stiff but separated from the 2 smaller cables to the earcups, so there is no transmission of sound physically from the cable housing itself.
   
  The Enigma cable lets Audeze be Audeze, which to me is relaxing, easy to listen to with no pain, but still full of life with natural tonality, imaging, and texture.
   
  As far as my LCD3/HD800 comparison goes, now it's back to even, a hard decision. Still a more expansive soundstage on the HD800s, and a bit more openness, but the LCD3s have great liquidity and warm wonderful controlled bass.
   
  I have no connection to Enigma, I'm just a customer and I was looking for a warmer cable because I am a bit treble/glare phobic with phones.
   
  Enigma's site: http://www.enigma-audio.com/Headphone%20Cables.html
   
  (P.S., I love the Q-cable too, but if you are looking for some warmth, try the Apex.)


----------



## Girls Generation

Testing this prototype cable for Peter. It's a somewhat-more-portable version of the Spore. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Rectangular OCC Copper wire.
  Sound, in two words: Mind blowing


----------



## alvin sawdust

Care to elaborate what makes this cable mind blowing?
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Testing this prototype cable for Peter. It's a somewhat-more-portable version of the Spore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Testing this prototype cable for Peter. It's a somewhat-more-portable version of the Spore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Would you also mind posting the rough price estimates as I'm interested, looks well built yet relatively compact and pliable.


----------



## ianmedium

Well. After being so pleased with the effect that Frank's Silver Poison cable has had on my system and finding out a couple of weeks ago that Frank has now upgraded the silver poison i decided to place an order for the new one after emailing Frank to ask about the differences and feeling after reading his response it is going to be worth it. Can't wait for it to arrive, it is going to be Naked as well so I get to see the lovely cable and it will be more flexible that my existing silver poison.

Had a good email chat with Frank and he showed me pictures of not only the new silver poison but also a new rectangular copper cable that he got to make into headphone cables for those who want to go the copper route. I have been busy so forgot to post my latest purchase and the info on this new cable he has got when Frank told me about it a couple of weeks ago, better late than never though . I think if I had a brighter system the new copper one is the one i would have gone for!

Here is a picture of the new cable for those interested. I think this is just the raw shot and not the finished product!


----------



## CanDude

One of these late nights again (3:30 AM)...
  Reviewing a balanced red astrachan cable from KDM, compairing it to Q-Audio (and standard cable).
  BASS! Treble too. I'll be back...


----------



## brat

I don't have the time and patience to read the whole thread with all the spam inside 
  Please, recommend me cables which can increase the bass of my LCD-2 r.2. It's insufficient for my taste.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





brat said:


> I don't have the time and patience to read the whole thread with all the spam inside
> Please, recommend me cables which can increase the bass of my LCD-2 r.2. It's insufficient for my taste.


 

 In my limited experience the 8 conductor Norse Audio Norn (very nice cable) had more emphasis in lower frequencies than the 6 [which in turn had more lower frequency emphasis than the]  4 conductor variants.  I won't speculate whether this is a more general trend or not, but there are a couple of Cable makers you could contact to ask for advice on cables they stock.  Also, rectangular copper conductors as used by Zeus (and more recently also adopted by Toxic and DHC) have been observed to have good dynamics and bass response, not sure if they have greater quantity of bass though.


----------



## Currawong

brat said:


> I don't have the time and patience to read the whole thread with all the spam inside
> Please, recommend me cables which can increase the bass of my LCD-2 r.2. It's insufficient for my taste.




If you feel you need more bass, you need to use an EQ or get different headphones. Cables won't EQ the sound that radically.


----------



## Girls Generation

I won't post impressions/mini-review until later but in short, its everything you've read about a cable being more spacious; increased clarity and sparkle; better instrument separation; more micro-detail; more textured and layered bass --basically extremely revealing-- but all of that is actually true, and not exaggerated, with this cable. I think it's the unique design and the rectangular wire that puts this cable above the rest.
   
  What makes this cable count for me is that it actually makes me want to listen to music; there's this indescribable "pull" towards the music that I never had before. I had absolutely no interest with the stock cable, and ended up not appreciating the LCD2 at all, but now I can't seem to put it down. It's one of those rare smile-inducers.
   
  If I was to describe this cable with only one word, it would be: _finesse_.
  
  Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Care to elaborate what makes this cable mind blowing?


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Well. After being so pleased with the effect that Frank's Silver Poison cable has had on my system and finding out a couple of weeks ago that Frank has now upgraded the silver poison i decided to place an order for the new one after emailing Frank to ask about the differences and feeling after reading his response it is going to be worth it. Can't wait for it to arrive, it is going to be Naked as well so I get to see the lovely cable and it will be more flexible that my existing silver poison.


 

 So what's new on the Silver Poison cables? Do share.


----------



## MorbidToaster

currawong said:


> If you feel you need more bass, you need to use an EQ or get different headphones. Cables won't EQ the sound that radically.




Agreed...but the LCD2 doesn't respond well to low end EQ from my experience. They get boomy and flabby. 

Give it a shot (EQ) but a cable isn't going to help, IMO.


----------



## scootermafia

I agree that cables do not change LCD2/3 as much as other headphones such as the HD800.  What you may need is a more powerful amp.  While the LCD2/3 do sound great through more modest hardware, they don't really crank until they're driven by my balanced B22.  
   
  There's really no price on the cable GG is testing, yet.  Not low.


----------



## ianmedium

darknightdk said:


> So what's new on the Silver Poison cables? Do share.




Frank told me that the new Silver Poison wire uses different strand sizes and the wire is laid out differently with more of a twist to it and a better quality dielectric and they now use all four connections on the mini XLRinstead of 2 which apparently is more common. I will do another review once mine arrives, it is on it's way so should not be too long!

Also on a side note about the new rectangular copper cable as I asked about that in consideration to the silver poison Frank reckons it is going to come in around the $200 mark for a 6 foot length HP cable and the design will be similar to the Venom/ Venom 4.
Hope that helps. As most know, I have been really pleased with my present Silver Poisons so I thought I would try the new ones as they offer apparently improved sound quality and in my case as I have chosen no sheathing, more flexibility.

Must say as well Frank is a great guy to deal with and the build quality of his work is very high.

Oh and usual thing as there are some less than nice cynical people on the forum I have nothing to do with or gain from Toxic cables, just a very happy customer. I don't get discounts or free trials of the cables.


----------



## antonze

Hear hear, ianmedium.
  As a sidenote to my (positive) initial impressions of the Silver poison ("mark II"):
   
   
  
   


> one minor drawback of the Silver Poison : the separation point of the cable where the thick part turns into two thin white plastic cables is quite BIG, quite heavy, and keeps getting stuck in the clothes, table et al. More than a bit annoying.


 
   
 Obviously and as told by its maker, this "ferret" plays a part in the final sound quality, but...
 If you fear this part is going to be as annoying to you than it is to me, Frank can make a "ferret-free" version of the cable without it. Be sure to tell him about what you want!


----------



## ianmedium

antonze said:


> Hear hear, ianmedium.
> As a sidenote to my (positive) initial impressions of the Silver poison:
> 
> 
> ...




Good information Antonze, I must admit that bit is a bit big but the cable I am getting now won't have it as it is Naked compared to the sheathed version I have at the moment. Frank told me the new cable is really attractive to look at so I am glad I am going this way. With the first one I went for the RF shielding but thinking about it I am not in situations where that is much of a problem!

Can't wait for it to arrive. As a side. I have only caught the ferret a couple of times so it is not too much of an issue for me . Also I only have a four foot length of cable so that reduces a lot of problems with longer lengths dragging around!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Good information Antonze, I must admit that bit is a bit big but the cable I am getting now won't have it as it is Naked compared to the sheathed version I have at the moment. Frank told me the new cable is really attractive to look at so I am glad I am going this way. With the first one I went for the RF shielding but thinking about it I am not in situations where that is much of a problem!
> Can't wait for it to arrive. As a side. I have only caught the ferret a couple of times so it is not too much of an issue for me . Also I only have a four foot length of cable so that reduces a lot of problems with longer lengths dragging around!


 
  is frank able to rewire the k701 with the toxic cable and remove all the internal wires that go around the headband?


----------



## ianmedium

oprwtos said:


> is frank able to rewire the k701 with the toxic cable and remove all the internal wires that go around the headband?




I am not sure, I think he just sells cables and does not re-cable but you might want to shoot him an email and ask.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





brat said:


> I don't have the time and patience to read the whole thread with all the spam inside
> Please, recommend me cables which can increase the bass of my LCD-2 r.2. It's insufficient for my taste.


 

 Cables aren't going to help as an EQ that way - at best they can increase or decrease the transparency and/or micro-detail.  I'd be looking at the source or amp for more bass.


----------



## Girls Generation

If all else fails, new headphones? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Cables aren't going to help as an EQ that way - at best they can increase or decrease the transparency and/or micro-detail.  I'd be looking at the source or amp for more bass.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> If all else fails, new headphones?


 

 Obviously, but an LCD-2 without enough bass, seriously?


----------



## ianmedium

headphoneaddict said:


> Obviously, but an LCD-2 without enough bass, seriously?




I was going to say, one thing they don't lack is good bass!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I was going to say, one thing they don't lack is good bass!


 

 No other headphone does bass any better than the LCD-x IMO.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Agreed.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> No other headphone does bass any better than the LCD-x IMO.


----------



## ianmedium

I think the Bass issue is that many do not know what good bass really is! I think people have got used to over-bloated bass that you get with Dre's or the sort of thing one sees with Honda Civics trunks packed to the rafters with bass bins and amps.. That, in my opinion is not good bass!


----------



## Girls Generation

Each individual may interpret "good bass" differently; for instance, good bass to an audiophile may be that textured, enveloping bass the LCD2 has to offer, while good bass to the average person may be bloated boomy bass that cans such as the XB500 offer, and finally good bass to a cinephile may be an earth-shattering rumble that movie theatre speaker systems present. In my opinion, we have no power nor right to label what "good bass" really is, because it's a matter of personal preference. Now, if we added "to me/us" after "good/enough bass," it'd be a different story.
   
  I think he just needs time to adjust to the LCD2's sound, rather than seek for more bass quantity.
   
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I think the Bass issue is that many do not know what good bass really is! I think people have got used to over-bloated bass that you get with Dre's or the sort of thing one sees with Honda Civics trunks packed to the rafters with bass bins and amps.. That, in my opinion is not good bass!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> I think he just needs time to adjust to the LCD2's sound, rather than seek for more bass quantity.


 

 Time for some EQ I guess.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Low end EQ really cripples the LCD 2...It gets soooo flabby. At least from what I've done with it. 
   
  A nice hardware EQ might yield better results, but various software EQs have yielded poor results for me.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Time for some EQ I guess.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Low end EQ really cripples the LCD 2...It gets soooo flabby. At least from what I've done with it.
> 
> A nice hardware EQ might yield better results, but various software EQs have yielded poor results for me.


 

 I rarely use EQ myself as a sonic additive after the fact.  Recently though I found myself applying it to _Miles Davis Quintet Live In Europe 1967 - The Bootleg Series Vol. 1_ in order to bring it to life.   
   
  Software EQ can be very tricky, most people do not know how to use it properly as it really takes a completely different touch to apply it than hardware EQ.  I have used both software and hardware EQ over the years as a professional editor/mixer and sometimes composer. I would only use it during a mix on various tracks but like I mentioned very rarely on a finished track after it has been Mastered.
   
   It is extremely easy to go overboard very quickly with software EQ.  Most of the software EQ available to the average user is garbage to begin with and then gets applied too much.   I have about 30 different third party EQ AU's I use with LOGIC and Garageband many of them can be installed into playback applications like Fidelia for use.  Applications like Fidelia using a high quality professional software EQ is a good route to go these days because hardware EQ is unlikely to get looked at.  
   
  Personally I have tried many an EQ with the LCD-2 and I have found that the LCD-2 and its bass response is great just the way it is, for a headphone that is.    

 I'm just convinced *BRAT *may simply be a bass head and needs a headphone that goes in that direction.  I'm a detail/imaging/soundstage freak myself which is pretty much why I went back to speakers.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Here is a picture of the new cable for those interested. I think this is just the raw shot and not the finished product!


 


  The new cable maybe good to digital cable.


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Also on a side note about the new rectangular copper cable as I asked about that in consideration to the silver poison Frank reckons it is going to come in around the $200 mark for a 6 foot length HP cable and the design will be similar to the Venom/ Venom 4.


 

 I just had a talk with Frank, he says that it should be ready in 1-2 weeks time. I'm probably going to pick up one of the first units.


----------



## ianmedium

dyl1dyl said:


> I just had a talk with Frank, he says that it should be ready in 1-2 weeks time. I'm probably going to pick up one of the first units.




Excellent. I am really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it!


----------



## Girls Generation

Hopefully Frank has done adequate R&D for preventing possible kinking and damage to the rectangular after some normal wear and tear to the cable.
  
  Quote: 





dyl1dyl said:


> I just had a talk with Frank, he says that it should be ready in 1-2 weeks time. I'm probably going to pick up one of the first units.


----------



## ianmedium

I am sure Frank has done so. His cables are first class when it comes to sonics and build quality I have found.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Whilst staying within the MOT rules.  I can only refer you to the current flagship description and say of course I thoroughly R&D'd this as it was a main concern and design issue.
   
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Hopefully Frank has done adequate R&D for preventing possible kinking and damage to the rectangular after some normal wear and tear to the cable.


----------



## ianmedium

Hey Frank. Great to see you here and as an MOT. Your cables are awesome mate, can't wait for my new one to get here!


----------



## Toxic Cables

Hey Ian,
   
  Thank you, I will get your cable out by the end of the week.  So you will have it real soon


----------



## MusiCol

Hi folks, just to let you know, Frank has entrusted me with a couple of demo copper and silver-plated-copper LCD2/3 cables from Toxic Cables, for review. The Silver Poison, and Venom cables will follow. The cables need a day or two to burn in, so please bear with me, but I'll post the results asap.
   
  In case anyone is wondering, no I'm not getting paid to do this, and yes, my reviews will be entirely honest and unbiased. Whether they're any good is a different matter!


----------



## brat

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Obviously, but an LCD-2 without enough bass, seriously?


 


  Seriously.
  When I received my LCD-2s and after 20-30hrs burn-in I was wandering if I read about the same headphones in all these monumental threads. I was expecting warm, dark-sounding and bassy heaphones but what I'm actually hearing is well balanced mid-centric sound with well extended but lean bass. I seriously suspect I received some next revision of LCD-2.
  P.S.: Gear used: Cary 306 SACD, Pioneer PD-9300 (modded), Audio-GD-FUN DAC/amp, Meier Audio Corda Prehead, Violectric HPA V200, many ICs and power cables.


----------



## scootermafia

The LCD3 isn't as warm as people say with a good neutral amp and source.  With some material they have really frighteningly strong bass.  But it's definitely not overdone...I think the earpads also seal better than others which helps reinforce the bass.  If you have a HD800 to compare side by side with it, then it's going to sound pretty warm by comparison.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> The LCD3 isn't as warm as people say with a good neutral amp and source.  With some material they have really frighteningly strong bass.  But it's definitely not overdone...I think the earpads also seal better than others which helps reinforce the bass.  If you have a HD800 to compare side by side with it, then it's going to sound pretty warm *by comparison.*


 

 ^ agreed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The LCD-3s are more chameleon-like than the LCD-2s as well. On my GS-1 (about as neutral an amp that there is IMO), they sound darn neutral to my ears. Depending on the tubes I use on my WA22, I can get them fairly close to that sound too. Overall they are still my favourite pair of headphones since I got them in November.


----------



## CanDude

Quote: 





musicol said:


> Hi folks, just to let you know, Frank has entrusted me with a couple of demo copper and silver-plated-copper LCD2/3 cables from Toxic Cables, for review. The Silver Poison, and Venom cables will follow. The cables need a day or two to burn in, so please bear with me, but I'll post the results asap.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, no I'm not getting paid to do this, and yes, my reviews will be entirely honest and unbiased. Whether they're any good is a different matter!


 

 I'd love to compare the Venom with the red astrachan that I'm currently reviewing. I guess I'll need to buy the Venom though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I guess I can get the Venom with a 4 pin XLR plus a 4 pin XLR to 1/4" jack plug adapter?


----------



## drez

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


>


 

 Anyone know the conductor dimensions of this wire?  I have seen reference somewhere to 2:1 cross section for the Kimber rectangular copper cables, which for 24 AWG would then mean 0.64 x 0.32 mm conductor?
   
  Ideally if someone could put a caliper to one of these that would be more reliable than my back of envelope calculation (I have a couple of SMC connectors lying around to suite RG58 coaxial cables with c.a 20AWG center conductor)


----------



## scootermafia

I think it's flatter than 2:1.  I'm pretty sure I have some of this exact same wire, I can measure it.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





			
				ianmedium said:
			
		

>


 

 Anyone know the conductor dimensions of this wire?  I have seen reference somewhere to 2:1 cross section for the Kimber rectangular copper cables, which for 24 AWG would then mean 0.64 x 0.32 mm conductor?
   
  Ideally if someone could put a caliper to one of these that would be more reliable than my back of envelope calculation (I have a couple of SMC connectors lying around to suite RG58 coaxial cables with c.a 20AWG center conductor)
   
   
   
 This picture's rectangular wire is 24AWG but I won't be stocking this.  I decided against using that size after discovering someone else was planning on using that gauge.
 I do have some 24AWG silver rectangular wire here (which I do not sell, again as someone else uses it) which was bought for R&D and as both wires are from the same company I think both would be the same size. 
  
 The 24AWG silver measures in at 0.77mm x 0.25mm with my micro meter.


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Anyone know the conductor dimensions of this wire?  I have seen reference somewhere to 2:1 cross section for the Kimber rectangular copper cables, which for 24 AWG would then mean 0.64 x 0.32 mm conductor?
> 
> Ideally if someone could put a caliper to one of these that would be more reliable than my back of envelope calculation (I have a couple of SMC connectors lying around to suite RG58 coaxial cables with c.a 20AWG center conductor)
> 
> ...


 

 but what if you mix the 24 awg normal wire with the rectangular silver wire ? is that good


----------



## Devarika Woulf

morbidtoaster said:


> Also, I nominate the Audeze stock cable (the 'ribbon') as worst looking cable. That thing is a pile of crap.


 
   
  An ugly, uncomfortable piece of dog poo.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> This picture's rectangular wire is 24AWG but I won't be stocking this.  I decided against using that size after discovering someone else was planning on using that gauge.
> I do have some 24AWG silver rectangular wire here (which I do not sell, again as someone else uses it) which was bought for R&D and as both wires are from the same company I think both would be the same size.
> 
> The 24AWG silver measures in at 0.77mm x 0.25mm with my micro meter.


 

 Thanks for the info!  That wire should fit the HE-6 connector I am using without need to modify.


----------



## MusiCol

Edit: I was going to remove this review but there's enough facts to warrant keeping most of it. I considered removing it after discovering that I hadn't given this cable anywhere near enough time to burn in properly. So I'll do another review once this cable has had the time it needs to reach the performance it's capable of. 
   
  This is the first of my reviews of the range of Toxic Cables, and it's focusing on their pure copper base model priced at £75.
   
  I'll just go over the look and feel of the cable now, and I must say it scores very highly on both counts. The connectors are very high quality, including a 6.3mm ViaBlue jack, and all feel reassuringly "solid". The cable is simply 4 fine stranded copper conductors in clear sheaths, litz braided together. It looks very fine and delicate, the feel is also fine - but I'm confident this cable would give a good few years of faultless service - and take a bit of punishment along the way! Plugging it into my LCD-2's (rev.1) the connectors slip in smoothly and lock firmly. They look and feel really classy! After that, it's easy to forget that they exist, as they are incredibly light, they slide smoothly over clothing and furniture, but without a hint of microphonics. And once they've completed their burn in, I'll let you know what they sound like!


----------



## ianmedium

^ Great review, thank you!

Frank sent me a picture of the new version silver poison cable he has made for me. Hopefully Canada post won't take too much longer!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


ianmedium said:


>


 

 Shiny.


----------



## MorbidToaster

sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Shiny.




Gotta admit the bare silver is pretty.


----------



## ianmedium

yeah, I reckon Frank could go into a side line of making this stuff into necklaces and bracelets for us Audio nuts!


----------



## MorbidToaster

ianmedium said:


> yeah, I reckon Frank could go into a side line of making this stuff into necklaces and bracelets for us Audio nuts!




Mini 4 pin clasps. I'd buy one.. Or 5


----------



## brat

Quote: 





musicol said:


> This is the first of my reviews of the range of Toxic Cables, and it's focusing on their pure copper base model priced at £75...


 

  So you say a £75 cable beats the stock cable of the LCDs? Or it's not? I think the men from audeze know what are doing and it's not_ impossible _a £75 cable to best their choise but I personally will stay with the "ugly" original.


----------



## Matt head 777

I'm not worried about the sound difference between cables. But looking to upgrade cable on reports of it being ugly heavy?
  Anyone know where can buy cable and make your own and if you can use the stock connectors with a new DIY cable?


----------



## grokit

Try the DIY cable thread for that.


----------



## ianmedium

We have a saying in Britain and its called "cooking on gas"! Which basically means the person is red hot, of the moment and fully connected! Why do I say this? I think our friend Frank is one of those!

Check this other cable he showed me out, I would have loved it only it is too big to used with the balanced connector needed for my SR71-B, it's the eight wire silver poison, Man, I have to get a balanced home amp sometime


Like I said before, Frank could turn this stuff into jewellery for Audiophiles 



And a close-up


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> We have a saying in Britain and its called "cooking on gas"!


 
   
  We've a similar saying here that goes "Now you're (or we're) cooking with gas!"
   
  se


----------



## DarknightDK

That's a beaut! I need to try those silver poisons someday


----------



## ianmedium

Thats cool Steve, I am a Brit living in Canada and as far as I know it is not an expression used in the great white north! Cool that something stuck around after the Brits let you guys win


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Thats cool Steve, I am a Brit living in Canada and as far as I know it is not an expression used in the great white north! Cool that something stuck around after the Brits let you guys win


 

 Hey, knock that off! We Americans are supposed to be the arrogant ones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

steve eddy said:


> Hey, knock that off! We Americans are supposed to be the arrogant ones!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


ianmedium said:


> > Seriously though some of the best times and most genuine people I have had and met have been in the good old US of A!


 

 Ew, really?  You need to get out more.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> > Nah, thats just a malicious rumor handed out by those who have never met Americans. Seriously though some of the best times and most genuine people I have had and met have been in the good old US of A!


 

 No, it's not a malicious rumor handed out by those who have never met Americans. It's carefully crafted AMERICAN propaganda. Dude, soon as people know you're nice, they start taking advantage. So ixnay on the indkay ordsway. Okay?
   
  *grabs flag* WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!
   
  se


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steve Eddy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!


----------



## OPrwtos

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> We have a saying in Britain and its called "cooking on gas"! Which basically means the person is red hot, of the moment and fully connected! Why do I say this? I think our friend Frank is one of those!
> Check this other cable he showed me out, I would have loved it only it is too big to used with the balanced connector needed for my SR71-B, it's the eight wire silver poison, Man, I have to get a balanced home amp sometime
> 
> Like I said before, Frank could turn this stuff into jewellery for Audiophiles
> ...


 
  wow ! no way! 
   last night i was thinking about an 8 wire silver poison cable, thinking when i get the cable i would try to get an 8 wire version. Also it looks really damn nice. How much!?
   
   
  oh and i lived in london my whole life and i never heard the saying "cooking on gas".


----------



## ianmedium

oprwtos said:


> wow ! no way!
> last night i was thinking about an 8 wire silver poison cable, thinking when i get the cable i would try to get an 8 wire version. Also it looks really damn nice. How much!?
> 
> 
> oh and i lived in london my whole life and i never heard the saying "cooking on gas".



Give Frank a call as see how much, it looks amazing and if I had a home amp I would have gone for it!

I think Cooking on Gas is more a Northern thing!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Thats cool Steve, I am a Brit living in Canada and as far as I know it is not an expression used in the great white north! Cool that something stuck around after the Brits let you guys win


 


   


  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Hey, knock that off! We Americans are supposed to be the arrogant ones!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  To confirm, YES, we Canadians do also "cook WITH gas" too when things are really going well.


----------



## ianmedium

Ah, well that must be an eastern Canada thing then as I have not heard it here in BC in the 13 years I have lived here.


----------



## Pudu

Grew up in Sask and definitely heard "now we're cooking with gas" .

Then I moved to the US (via South East Asia) where I frequently heard "now your cooking gives me gas".


----------



## HK_sends

"I've got gas, LOTS of gas!" 
  So, keep a reasonable distance...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  PS - An extra credit point to whomever can identify where the saying came from...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Ah, well that must be an eastern Canada thing then as I have not heard it here in BC in the 13 years I have lived here.


 


  It's because they're so carbon footprint conscience out in BC, cooking with gas is frowned upon.


----------



## Pudu

Yes, but "Now we're cooking with a combination of solar power, metabolic body heat, and thermal energy recovered from the compost heap by an environmentally sustainable heat pump..." doesn't quite roll off the tongue.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Yes, but "Now we're cooking with a combination of solar power, metabolic body heat, and thermal energy recovered from the compost heap by an environmentally sustainable heat pump..." doesn't quite roll off the tongue.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> We've a similar saying here that goes "Now you're (or we're) cooking with gas!"


 

 Yes, I've heard that expression several times in my 25 years in the USA.
   
  Now, I all mainly hear people say is ****SNIFFSNIFFSNIFF...WHO FARTED?!*** *




   
  The LCD headphones let out little arrogant money farts too, if you didn't know.


----------



## grokit

We're cooking with fire now!


----------



## MusiCol

Edit: After conversing with Frank (head of Toxic Cables) I realised that I've not given these cables anywhere near the burn in they need. So I've decided to remove this review and do another review once the cables have had the time they need. Apologies to one and all.


----------



## scootermafia

A lot of people say 1000 hours for silver...


----------



## brat

The best comes after 1 000 000 hours. Believe me.


----------



## Pudu

1000 hours = 41.6667 days

The halflife of Ag105 is 41.29 days. 

Is there something we should know about silver cables ... h34r:


----------



## ianmedium

Definitely burn in is important I have found. Frank usually burns cables in a bit before sending them but they really do open up a great deal with a lot of burn in! My new Silver poison should be here any day now, can't wait!


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Definitely burn in is important I have found. Frank usually burns cables in a bit before sending them but they really do open up a great deal with a lot of burn in! My new Silver poison should be here any day now, can't wait!


 

 I do try to give the cables a little burn in before shipping but it's not always possible. I have found the Poison to need a maximum of 250hrs and have heard no further improvements past this time.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


brat said:


> The best comes after 1 000 000 hours. Believe me.


 

 Yeah, everybody should run out and buy an Audiodharma Cable Cooker *right now*.


----------



## Pudu

I thought we were supposed to put them in the freezer.


I thinking of trying the washing machine next to see if that improves things.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah, everybody should run out and buy an Audiodharma Cable Cooker *right now*.


 


  Wouldn't it be cheaper if we all just used our microwaves to cook them


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I thought we were supposed to put them in the freezer.
> I thinking of trying the washing machine next to see if that improves things.


 

 The good old washing machine treatment, best way to get a clean signal.


----------



## Windsor

Hey guys - 
   
  This may be slightly OT but it's still related to cables for the LCD-2/3.
   
  For a few months using the stock-cabled LCD-2 rev.2 and Lavry DA10 DAC/Amp, I always found the LCD-2 to sound slightly muffled in the upper treble frequency range. I tried a loaner ALO cable which did improve things, but I returned it to its owner and stayed with the stock cable. A few days ago, I saw an interesting post here about EQ'ing headphones, so I gave the writer's suggestion a try and it has more than resolved the lack of treble I was hearing without making things sound unnatural to my ears. 

 Basically, the previously-linked post refers to how on the headphone.com website it states that the ideal frequency response for a headphone's mid-treble range should be a flat line from 1k descending 8-10db to 20k, which I hadn't before considered. To make that happen, I used Audio Hijack Pro and a parametric EQ plugin in relation to my LCD-2's frequency response chart to create such a flat line response from 1k to 20k, and with the results that created I no longer desire a new cable for the LCD-2.
   
  If what I have described appeals to you, I highly recommend you give it a try. It may even save you some time and money. 

 On another note, I've also just started using a speaker/room simulation plugin called TB Isone. It is well-made and has created a very enjoyable difference to my headphone-listening experience, to the point that I'm most-probably done spending any more money on headphone-related purchases. More on my experiment can be found here if you're interested.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah, everybody should run out and buy an Audiodharma Cable Cooker *right now*.


 


  Cable cooker is hot stuff @ China HP forum.
   
  It's really improved after cooked.


----------



## Shubar

New Q Cables :O) A very happy camper! Gone to balance as you can see.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


shubar said:


> New Q Cables :O) A very happy camper! Gone to balance as you can see.


 
   
  Nice pile of cables!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shubar said:


> New Q Cables :O) A very happy camper! Gone to balance as you can see.


 

 I miss my Q Cable even though I do not use headphones anymore.


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> I miss my Q Cable even though I do not use headphones anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





pudu said:


> If I ever sell the LCD-2s, they are leaving with the stock cable.
> The Q's will remain here so that they may be handled and fondled while I listen to Handel and Vondel.


 


  I think my Q cable came "Pre-Fondled".


----------



## Pudu

warriorant said:


> I think my Q cable came "Pre-Fondled".






Ewww........


----------



## MusiCol

Sorry to Frank and everyone else for making a hash of this. You see where that phrase in my Signature comes from!!
   
  Basically I felt I ought to post a review quickly. My mistake, because the cables have improved beyond expectations in the intervening period. However, I'll say no more about them until they've completed their burn in phase.
   
  Apologies again for being so hasty. I'll be back with a proper review when the cables are ready.


----------



## Austin Morrow

I'm still waiting for a full fledged review of the LCD-2 Toxic Cables SPC cable. I have one coming for my HD650.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> I think my Q cable came "Pre-Fondled".


 

 Fondled? Naaaah. I just copped a quick feel is all.
   
  se


----------



## Pudu

steve eddy said:


> Fondled? Naaaah. I just copped a quick feel is all.
> 
> se





Still .... ewwww.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> Fondled? Naaaah. I just copped a quick feel is all.
> 
> se


 

 Man, I knew it.  You dirty cable-toucher!  I should've figured it out when my cable came stained with tears.  The psychological trauma you've inflicted upon this poor litz wire shall not go unanswered.


----------



## MusiCol

Hi folks, here are some images of Toxic Cables' mixed SPC / Copper cable (with a flash of my LCD-2"s! The pictures were taken on my iPhone and don't don't really do it justice - especially after compression, but they give you some idea of the craftsmanship and attention to detail.
   

   
  This gives some idea of how light and flexible the cable is:
   

   
  Quality connectors:
   

   
  Ultra-slim clear heat shrinks with company name and logo on all plugs and at the "Y" splits.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Did anyone notice that the Q-audio cable seem to have a more spacious sound than the stalk cable?  The stalk cable sounded a bit, narrower and the bass seemed a bit more prominent yet, the Q-cables have a wider sound and the bass isn't as prominent as the stalk?  Still I prefer the Q-audio cable because it has a natural sound to them rather than the stalk.  I really like the Q-audio!
   
  Thanks Ed!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Hawaiiancerveza,
   
  He is what I wrote about the Q cable concerning the bass.  I know what you when you say "less prominent" but To me it was less bloat in the bass and a bit more definition.  
   
   
_"Bass has a bit more dynamic definition and palpable sense than the stock cable with a bit more detail and *a touch less bloat*. Some may think the less bloat description to mean less bass. It does not. The bass is not negatively effected, if anything it is a bit cleaner."_
   
_http://www.head-fi.org/products/q-cables/reviews/5488_


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ya, thats a better explanation to it.  Bloat fits it better.  I didn't mean to sound like the bass was lesser with the Q-audio but sounded more natural than the stalk cable.  =)
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hawaiiancerveza,
> 
> He is what I wrote about the Q cable concerning the bass.  I know what you when you say "less prominent" but To me it was less bloat in the bass and a bit more definition.
> 
> ...


----------



## zeroakuma

Does anyone know how much does the black dragon cable and alo chainmail cable goes for?


----------



## scootermafia

The most common question I get, and the most easily answered: "How much does this cost?"
   
  Website.
   
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=moon+black+dragon+headphone+cable


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


zeroakuma said:


> Does anyone know how much does the black dragon cable and alo chainmail cable goes for?


 

 I'm probably a jerk for saying this, but this post is pure and utter laziness.  Check the Moon Audio and ALO websites for the pricing information.


----------



## zeroakuma

there are no mentions of the alo chainmail cable.


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





zeroakuma said:


> there are no mentions of the alo chainmail cable.


 


  It's because the name is different now, the current equivalent is called the Reference 8, only difference is they add a mix of silver to it now.  When I got mine the equivalent price was about $400.  Now the reference 8 is $635 for the XLR version.
   
http://aloaudio.com/reference-8-silver-copper-audeze-en.html
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## zeroakuma

Thank you very much!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


zeroakuma said:


> Thank you very much!


 

 This guy is selling his for $365 on the FS forums: http://www.head-fi.org/t/604322/alo-audio-lux-fep-chain-mail-8-audeze-10ft


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> This guy is selling his for $365 on the FS forums: http://www.head-fi.org/t/604322/alo-audio-lux-fep-chain-mail-8-audeze-10ft


 

 I must find out what Jedi master zeroakuma's secret is. First you call him utterly lazy, now you're his concierge. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Girls Generation

Thing is HEAVY.
  
  Quote: 





jwahl said:


> It's because the name is different now, the current equivalent is called the Reference 8, only difference is they add a mix of silver to it now.  When I got mine the equivalent price was about $400.  Now the reference 8 is $635 for the XLR version.
> 
> http://aloaudio.com/reference-8-silver-copper-audeze-en.html
> 
> Hope this helps.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Thing is HEAVY.


 


  Love Q, like feather


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Thing is HEAVY.


 

 It's even worse when it's 3-pin XLR with 1/4" adapter attached.


----------



## zeroakuma

hm... what is the more recommended headphone cable between jenalabs and norse audio


----------



## ianmedium

Will post initial thoughts and pictures today of my new Silver poison. It arrived last Friday but I was out of town, super fast shipping as usual with Frank. Boy what a gorgeous cable as well! More later!


----------



## zeroakuma

How much did you pay for the cable , ianmedium?


----------



## Solude

Personally for me... on the Rev1 its the SilverDragon.
   
  Semi sorta on topic.  Its drives me bananas that most cable resellers don't provide basic measurements or data.  At a minimum, gauge would be nice to know.  Ideally capacitance, inductance and resistance per foot.  Guessing they all have access to a multimetre


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





solude said:


> Semi sorta on topic.  Its drives me bananas that most cable resellers don't provide basic measurements or data.  At a minimum, gauge would be nice to know.  Ideally capacitance, inductance and resistance per foot.  Guessing they all have access to a multimetre


 

 Ok.
   
  But may I ask you something? What exactly would you (or anyone else for that matter) do with those numbers if you had them? Would they impart any truly meaningful information? Or would they just end up being more fodder for "numbers game" marketing?
   
  se


----------



## zeroakuma

trevor from norse audio....been paging you since the morning....i got one reply and you never replied then
   
  I would really want to order the cable from you guys...please respond!


----------



## ianmedium

OK, guys, have actually had almost a week that has not been full on busy and this weekend I will listen more in depth to Franks new version of the silver poison but will post initial thoughts now. Firstly Frank Charged me 142 pounds stirling plus 12 pounds stirling shipping (sorry, can't find the pound key on my US keyboard!) for a six foot length terminated with a Balanced connector suitable for my Blackbird.

First things first is the appearance. The cable is costing Frank a great deal more to purchase,He tells me it is 30% more in fact!

The cable has much finer strands and the sheathing used gives zero microphonics in my experience. I much prefer the naked look to this new one over the sheathed look of my old cable, the advantage is very flexible and much lighter and I must say I much prefer the shrink wrap at the split than the large heavy lump that was in the old cable. Build, as with all Franks cables is top notch and from my experience up there with the crystal cables piccolino. It just looks like really high end, and high expense cable!

The cable has a refined and detailed look about it and that sums up so far the listening experience that i have heard so far. It's like it takes off from where the 1st generation one left off. Sound has a deal more refinement I am finding, PRaT is excellent. I think at this stage I would say the sound has a sophistication and refinement greater than the already wonderful Original silver poison. 

What I am very relieved about is that Frank has managed to retain the detail of pure silver cable but at the same time the smoother presentation that I have found comes with copper. Detail in fact I am finding is quite a bit greater than the original cable and bass tighter and greater texture, something I find hard to come to terms with as I thought the old one was as good as it could get but the new one just proves the value of not resting on your laurels and continuing refining and developing. 

I think that is something as well that I want to say about this company. It feels like your part of something cutting edge and something that is looking forward rather than just finding something and staying with it just because it works.

Is it worth getting if you have the original? Well. If you never hear the new one then stick with the old. If you do hear the new version though prepare to send Frank a payment!

Here are some quick pictures, The first one I think shows the best the more refined look of the new cable over the old, new is on top, old on the bottom of the picture!


New and old together.








Here is an ultra close up!


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> (sorry, can't find the pound key on my US keyboard!)


 
   
  It's right there above the "3." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

Right above the 3, why y oughta! 

Forgot to mention, this new cable is in all Franks silver cables now. The old one has been phased out.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> It's right there above the "3."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Right above the 3, why y oughta!





> *snip*


 
  ROFLMAO!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> But may I ask you something? What exactly would you (or anyone else for that matter) do with those numbers if you had them?


 

  
  In the strictest sense I could use them to populate the RLC formula and model the system.  For most people it could simply be to pass the sniff test.  If the cable is good, it will measure well.  If it doesn't measure well, then why is it, extreme example, $100 a foot?  Headphones in particular are an interesting case because unlike a speaker they have a pretty large range of impedance.  A cable that performs well on the LCD-2 could be a wreck on a T1 and vice versa.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





solude said:


> In the strictest sense I could use them to populate the RLC formula and model the system.


 
   
  You have the electrical model for your LCD-2's?
   
  Quote: 





> For most people it could simply be to pass the sniff test.  If the cable is good, it will measure well.  If it doesn't measure well, then why is it, extreme example, $100 a foot?


 
   
  Ok, but now you have to define "measures well" in some meaningful sense. Or is it simply whatever cable has the "better" numbers is considered to inherently be the "better" cable and we just continue waltzing down the marketing-driven "numbers game" path?
   
  Quote: 





> Headphones in particular are an interesting case because unlike a speaker they have a pretty large range of impedance.  A cable that performs well on the LCD-2 could be a wreck on a T1 and vice versa.


 
   
  Or not.
   
  And until you can come up with some meaningful criteria, I don't see that the publishing of such measurements would be terribly meaningful to anyone.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Right above the 3, why y oughta!


 

 Oughta what? £ the crap out of me? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  FYI, on a US keyboard, you can hold down the Alt key and on the numeric keypad (make sure NumLock's on), enter 0163 and voila, you've got a £.
   
  se


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> £ the crap out of me?


 

 Dude, that's dirty.  This forum is supposed to be family-friendly.  Please refrain from such vulgarity in the future.  Thanks.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> And until you can come up with some meaningful criteria, I don't see that the publishing of such measurements would be terribly meaningful to anyone.


 
   
  I guess we'll just agree to disagree.  I really don't see it as any different than when an amp manufacturer doesn't publish thd or channel separation or my favourite... power output /facepalm.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


solude said:


> I really don't see it as any different than when an amp manufacturer doesn't publish thd or channel separation or my favourite... power output


 

 You mean aside from how amp measurements can affect sound quality profoundly, while cable measurements affect sound quality marginally, if at all?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





solude said:


> I guess we'll just agree to disagree.  I really don't see it as any different than when an amp manufacturer doesn't publish thd or channel separation or my favourite... power output /facepalm.


 

 And again, until you can come up with some sort of meaningful criteria, I don't see that the publishing of such measurements would be terribly meaningful to anyone, save perhaps for power output.
   
  Otherwise, all you're left with are some numbers.
   
  Let's say you have amplifier A, with a THD of 0.05%, and amplifier B with a THD of 0.002%. What exactly would that tell you about the two amplifiers in any sort of meaningful comparative context?
   
  se


----------



## zeroakuma

I don't know how long I can wait for Norse audio to contact me regarding my questions. What will be the best choice between these cables that I might buy? Toxic Pure OCC Cryo Silver, Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3, Jena Labs Cryo 18AWG, or ALO Audio LUX-FEP Chain Mail?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


zeroakuma said:


> I don't know how long I can wait for Norse audio to contact me regarding my questions. What will be the best choice between these cables that I might buy? Toxic Pure OCC Cryo Silver, Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3, Jena Labs Cryo 18AWG, or ALO Audio LUX-FEP Chain Mail?


 

 Is there a reason you're not considering Q?


----------



## zeroakuma

I will take the Q cables into consideration, but looking to read more into the Norse cables.


----------



## zeroakuma

Okay...maybe I was enticed by Norse Audio's cable looks, but after reading several reviews in this topic, I will probably go with the Pure Cryo OCC Stranded Silver or the Q-Audio Cable. Since I don't want to wait, it looks like Q-Audio's victory.
   
  Time to play, "deal or no deal...."


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





zeroakuma said:


> Okay...maybe I was enticed by Norse Audio's cable looks, but after reading several reviews in this topic, I will probably go with the Pure Cryo OCC Stranded Silver or the Q-Audio Cable. Since I don't want to wait, it looks like Q-Audio's victory.
> 
> Time to play, "deal or no deal...."


 


  Trevor from Norse has always replied very fast to my emails. just this week it took a little longer as the usual overnight, but still within 2 days. Are you sure you have the correcgt email


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Q-audio FTW!


----------



## dyl1dyl

Just placed an order for Toxic Cable's upcoming "Copper Venom", first in the world I believe. Will be using it balanced from my Littledot Mk6+ to the RMA'd LCD-3s. Will be getting a NAD M51 soon and the cable should be coming around first week next month so very excited


----------



## ianmedium

Excellent, can't wait to see it. Would love the Venom but it won't work with my Balanced connector for the blackbird.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





dyl1dyl said:


> Just placed an order for Toxic Cable's upcoming "Copper Venom", first in the world I believe. Will be using it balanced from my Littledot Mk6+ to the RMA'd LCD-3s. Will be getting a NAD M51 soon and the cable should be coming around first week next month so very excited


 


  Rectangular copper headphone cables are actually already being sold by at least one company i know of based in HK.


----------



## Austin Morrow

I'll have a coming on the Toxic Cables PSC HD650 cable once it arrives, I'll be interested to hear how it sounds off my Woo an my Burson.

Also, I'm hoping to get a LCD-2 soon, so I know who to go to for a cable.


----------



## MusiCol

A review - finally!! Under the microscope are the 2 lowest priced models in Toxic Cables range of headphone cables for the Audez'e LCD-2/3.
  
 Both of these cables follow the same basic design format - high strand-count cryo-treated OCC Copper in transparent sheaths, with the 4 conductors (2 from each side) drawn together by hand into a Litz braid, with clear heat-shrink over the Y-splits and plugs. For the pure copper model it's as simple as that, while the next model up has only one obvious difference; 1 of the 2 conductors from each side are silver plated. Both models are extremely light-weight, have a smooth, flexible feel, and slimline design. Attention to detail is superb, and their elegant appearance belies their strength.
  
 Despite being the "babies" in Toxic Cable's range, both of these cables perform significantly better than the stock LCD-2 cable, so I'll just describe them on their own merits rather than comparing each with the stock cable.
  
 There is plenty of information about these 2 cables (and the rest of the range) on the Toxic Cables website at the following locations;
  
 The basic model, priced at £75 is here:   http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=69
  
 The next in line, mixed-conductor cable, priced at £80 is here;    http://toxic-cables.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_61&product_id=70
  
 Both pages are full of information and are only a click away from the Toxic Cables homepage. Incidentally, Toxic Cables also produce cables for HiFiman and Sennheiser headphones, which will be of interest to some.
  
 
 I'll just start with a brief description of the system I'm using for this test. Starting with a pro audio PC running Windows XP SP2, using the JRiver 17 media player to play either 16bit/44.1kHz.wav files or 24/96FLAC downloads. The signal goes out at 24bit/96kHz to a Wyred 4 Sound "DAC1" via a Locus Design Group "Essentia" USB cable. From the DAC a Home Grown Audio "Silver Lace" RCA pair takes the analogue signal to a Burson Audio "HA160". The test cables then take the signal to my LCD-2 rev.1.
  
  
 So, what do they sound like? Well, both cables were "virgin" on arrival and both had a lot of sibilance, but after approximately 150hours of burn in both cables had reached a nice, stable sound, and this is where the reviews start. I guess most folks won't be familiar with the music I've chosen, but I'm familiar with it, and it's all quite demanding on any system.
  
  
 Starting with the cryo treated pure OCC Copper cable. The overall sound is quite balanced, leaning a bit towards the bass, and with a touch of brightness in the mids and highs. These can have the effect of cancelling each other out - but it depends on the type of music. I'm currently listening to Dragonforce which is notoriously hard to reproduce because there is just so much going - ultra-fast guitars, keyboard, and drums - at almost 200bpm! This cable allows all those different elements to be heard individually, which is quite a feat - especially for a "bottom of the range" cable! Moving on to Machine Head's album Unto The Locust. With so much distortion and brutal vocals, intertwined with singing and occasional acoustic guitar, it's sometimes hard to pick out each element in this music, but again, the cable lets it all through. The bass punch is powerful, but not excessive. So, with just a fraction too much bass and a hint of brightness, this cable does the LCD-2/3 justice - especially considering its price.
  
 Moving on to the next in line - the mixed Cryo OCC copper and silver-plated-copper. With Machine Head still playing, this cable is a bit on the dark side with slightly recessed mids, but there is more detail coming through - for instance, kick drums have faster punch and more power, but again, without being excessive. Clean electric guitar notes come through sharp and clear. Next up is Helloweeen; "Keeper Of The Seven Keys". With a lot of cymbals, hi-hats, high pitched vocals and screaming guitars, this should bring out any remaining sibilance, and although there is a touch of sibilance, the highs are generally nice and clean. Also, there seems to be a better balance across the frequency spectrum, with more balanced bass than the pure copper cable. Moving on to Rammstein "Mutter" (German band & language), the combination of heavy metal style vocals and guitar with layers of synths, backed up in parts by a classic string section and in other parts by a full orchestra, means there's a lot going on from the deepest bass to the highest highs! Suffice to say that I've never heard this album performed quite so well. From the most brutally intense sections to graceful strings and child's voice, I can't fault it. Next comes a classical section, and I've chosen Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor (24bit/96kHz flac). The recording sounds dry to start with, but little trills from the piano are like sunshine popping out from behind a cloud, and as the piano takes on more of a central role the dryness is banished and as far as I can tell, all orchestral detail becomes clearly apparent. Overall there's a light airy feel to the recording, punctuated by the lovely sweet piano playing. If anything there is a bit too much "air", but for a sub -£100 cable, if that's the only fault, Toxic Cables have done a very good job indeed.
  
 I don't know how the mixed conductor recipe came about, but it works well!
  
 Incidentally, the web address for Toxic Cables' eBay store is:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/frankfranks35/m.html?hash=item1c25f085f4&item=120895604212&pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&_trksid=p4340.l2562


----------



## zeroakuma

Heyo steve. Just wondering if have some headphone cables that are already made for shipping >_>;


----------



## zeroakuma

Frank, I must say that your silver cable looks the best <3.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





zeroakuma said:


> Heyo steve. Just wondering if have some headphone cables that are already made for shipping >_>;


 

 Yes, I do.
   
  And they were just shipped out today to the customers who ordered them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## zeroakuma

Thanks Steve! Can't wait for my LCD-2 Rev 2 and the Q Audio cable in white! Thanks WarriorAnt for your recommendation!
   
  I'll probably pick up the HD800 while I'm at it!


----------



## MorbidToaster

Good choice. I need to get another cable from Steve...Not sure where the heck it'll fit into the budget though. 
  
  Quote: 





zeroakuma said:


> Thanks Steve! Can't wait for my LCD-2 Rev 2 and the Q Audio cable in white! Thanks WarriorAnt for your recommendation!
> 
> I'll probably pick up the HD800 while I'm at it!


----------



## zeroakuma

He now has a different plug to offer   I feel like a VIP because this option wasn't available before, but to me...it was!


----------



## dyl1dyl

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Rectangular copper headphone cables are actually already being sold by at least one company i know of based in HK.


 

 Haha, I meant that I'm the first in the world to order the Copper Venom from you guys


----------



## zeroakuma

Is that the 800-1000 dollar headphone cable?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





musicol said:


> A review - finally!! Under the microscope are the 2 lowest priced models in Toxic Cables range of headphone cables for the Audez'e LCD-2/3.
> 
> Both of these cables follow the same basic design format - high strand-count cryo-treated OCC Copper in transparent sheaths, with the 4 conductors (2 from each side) drawn together by hand into a Litz braid, with clear heat-shrink over the Y-splits and plugs. For the pure copper model it's as simple as that, while the next model up has only one obvious difference; 1 of the 2 conductors from each side are silver plated. Both models are extremely light-weight, have a smooth, flexible feel, and slimline design. Attention to detail is superb, and their elegant appearance belies their strength.
> 
> ...


 

 I would never presume to take issue with what you heard, nor impugn the quality of construction of the cables.  Nice review!
   
  Honestly, I'm curious about some of the manufacturer's claims.  What is a "Litz braid," particularly when we're discussing two conductors?  What is a "unidirectional" cable?  How does this cable "transmit electrical signals faster and with less distortion than ordinary OFC and silver wires"? Has the propagation velocity been measured with a time domain reflectometer to verify this?  
   
  Where does this stuff come from?


----------



## kwkarth

Another thing...  As far as I know, all of the "rectangular" silver wire being used was originally created for jewelry, hence its being rectangular in shape.  Electrons would become very confused in a non linear way, trying to negotiate a rectangular cross section.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If this is the case, and perhaps it's not, but if it is, maybe we'll start to see other jewelry show up in high zoot audio-ware.  The carbon fibre used in the connectors is truly beautiful, at least to my eye, I really like the look of it, but it does absolutely nothing for the sound.  The engineer and the artist within me are at war here...


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I would never presume to take issue with what you heard, nor impugn the quality of construction of the cables.  Nice review!
> 
> Honestly, I'm curious about some of the manufacturer's claims.  What is a "Litz braid," particularly when we're discussing two conductors?  What is a "unidirectional" cable?  How does this cable "transmit electrical signals faster and with less distortion than ordinary OFC and silver wires"? Has the propagation velocity been measured with a time domain reflectometer to verify this?
> 
> Where does this stuff come from?


 
   
  A quick search online for UP-OCC unidirectional wire will answer most of those questions for you. They are not claims made specifically by me but 99% of the people selling OCC Cables, the suppliers and patent holder. As for the litz braid, again a quick search will show what it is.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> The carbon fibre used in the connectors is truly beautiful, at least to my eye, I really like the look of it, but it does absolutely nothing for the sound.  The engineer and the artist within me are at war here...


 

  
  It is not meant to do anything for the sound, it's only for the artist within you


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> A quick search online for UP-OCC unidirectional wire will answer most of those questions for you, they are not claims made by me but 99% of the people selling OCC Cables, the suppliers and patent holder. As for the Litz braid, that is just what some refer to the type of braid i do, nothing special there.


 

 Thanks for answering my question.  So, as you say, the use of the term "unidirectional" is very widespread, and for the record, is complete BS, but I'm not taking issue with your use of the term since it is so widespread.  "Uni-directionality" in any form is the VERY LAST THING you would want in any conductor, since that implies a diodic function, and thus would be HIGHLY destructive to any AC/ (audio) signal. No doubt this has been said many times before, but I just had to say in again in the spirit that a better understanding of electronics and audio, will ultimately lead to a higher level of enjoyment and equipment performance for the listener/music lover.
  Cheers,
  -k


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> It is not meant to do anything for the sound, it's only for the artist within you


 

 Ahh!  OK then.  The artist and engineer within me are at peace!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Thx again!
  -k


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Thanks for answering my question.  So, as you say, the use of the term "unidirectional" is very widespread, and for the record, is complete BS, but I'm not taking issue with your use of the term since it is so widespread.  "Uni-directionality" in any form is the VERY LAST THING you would want in any conductor, since that implies a diodic function, and thus would be HIGHLY destructive to any AC/ (audio) signal. No doubt this has been said many times before, but I just had to say in again in the spirit that a better understanding of electronics and audio, will ultimately lead to a higher level of enjoyment and equipment performance for the listener/music lover.
> Cheers,
> -k


 
I believe unidirectional means that the signal only travels in one direction while if it were bidirectional would mean in 2 different directions or omnidirectional which is in all directions.
  So why would the signal travelling in just one direction be the VERY LAST THING that we want. I would have thought that would be the only thing that we would want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/unidirectional.htm


----------



## sridhar3

kwkarth is a ninja master, disappearing and reappearing at will.


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Another thing...  As far as I know, all of the "rectangular" silver wire being used was originally created for jewelry, hence its being rectangular in shape.  Electrons would become very confused in a non linear way, trying to negotiate a rectangular cross section.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  http://www.soundscapeav.com/papers/decade.html


----------



## paradoxper




----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> I believe unidirectional means that the signal only travels in one direction while if it were bidirectional would mean in 2 different directions or omnidirectional which is in all directions.
> So why would the signal travelling in just one direction be the VERY LAST THING that we want. I would have thought that would be the only thing that we would want
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nope, sorry, not the way things work in this universe.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


>


 
  That should be in our permanent collection of smily's.


----------



## paradoxper

So is Toxic Cables misleading people, using nice buzzwords, misinformed himself?....People do seem to enjoy his cables.


----------



## MorbidToaster

Everyone uses buzzwords. I think the issue with buzzwords is their ability to mislead when used incorrectly.
   
  EDIT: Don't take this as an attack on anyone in particular. I'm just saying it's a general problem. Not saying anyone is misleading people here.
  
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So is Toxic Cables misleading people, using nice buzzwords, misinformed himself?....People do seem to enjoy his cables.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So is Toxic Cables misleading people, using nice buzzwords, misinformed himself?....People do seem to enjoy his cables.


 

  
   
 Misleading people, i don't think so. I use descriptions from my suppliers who i get the wire from, one of which is Wun Lung, better known as Neotech Cable who are one of the largest OCC manufacturers and i have my new batch of 26awg copper coming from them. If i am misleading people then so are 99% of the other people selling UP-OCC wire because all use the same description.
  
 I'm here to make cables, i have different cables manufactured to my specs until i find one that i like the sound of and that is what i sell. To me the sound is all that matters and i have not yet had a single complaint from the 300+ cables i have sold in the last 5months since i came on to the scene.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> So is Toxic Cables misleading people, using nice buzzwords, misinformed himself?....People do seem to enjoy his cables.


 
  The entire audio world is sadly misinformed by buzzworditis.  Toxic isn't any worse than a bunch of others.  What matters is how the final product sounds and how well it's constructed and therefor how well it holds up.  The rest of the aesthetics, comfort, flexibility, etc. are in the ear of the beholder.  If you like it, it's good, no need to invent BS to explain it.  My 2₵.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





morbidtoaster said:


> Everyone uses buzzwords. I think the issue with buzzwords is their ability to mislead when used incorrectly.
> 
> EDIT: Don't take this as an attack on anyone in particular. I'm just saying it's a general problem. Not saying anyone is misleading people here.


 


  I guess that's more what I was trying to allude to. Did not want to imply an insult.


  Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Misleading people, i don't think so. I use descriptions from my suppliers who i get the wire from, one of which is Wun Lung, better known as Neotech Cable who are one of the largest OCC manufacturers and i have my new batch of 26awg copper coming from them. If i am misleading people then so are 99% of the other people selling UP-OCC wire because all use the same description.
> 
> I'm here to make cables, i have different cables manufactured to my specs until i find one that i like the sound of and that is what i sell. To me the sound is all that matters and i have not yet had a single complaint from the 300+ cables i have sold in the last 5months since i came on to the scene.


 

 Again sorry to stir your emotions. I know people really enjoy your cables, no doubt about that. I may have just used the wrong wording. To me these buzzwords imply a lack of transparency I just wanted to know if you're up-selling or perhaps being deceiving. I guess I need to just familiarize myself with the rest of the industry that does that same thing you do?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I guess that's more what I was trying to allude to. Did not want to imply an insult.
> 
> Again sorry to stir your emotions. I know people really enjoy your cables, no doubt about that. I may have just used the wrong wording. To me these buzzwords imply a lack of transparency I just wanted to know if you're up-selling or perhaps being deceiving. I guess I need to just familiarize myself with the rest of the industry that does that same thing you do?


 

 For me, it works best to ignore the buzz and evaluate the product on how it sounds and its esthetic match to my own sensibilities.  Example, I've heard great sounding cables that are very massive and inflexible, but well constructed.  I've also heard great sounding cables that seem to be built very well even though they're very flexible and lightweight.  That esthetic appeals to my taste for a headphone cable more than the massive alternatives.  That's my personal preference and has no bearing on what others' personal preferences may be.


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I guess that's more what I was trying to allude to. Did not want to imply an insult.
> 
> Again sorry to stir your emotions. I know people really enjoy your cables, no doubt about that. I may have just used the wrong wording. To me these buzzwords imply a lack of transparency I just wanted to know if you're up-selling or perhaps being deceiving. I guess I need to just familiarize myself with the rest of the industry that does that same thing you do?


 
   
  I have no reason to up-sell or deceive people, i like to think that my cables speak for themselves.
   
  As i have already stated, my description is from my supplier, if i were to be misleading people then i would be using a description other then the one given to me by my supplier.
  Just go on google and search for Unidirectional UP-OCC and see all the familiar names show up.
   
https://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=unidirectional+up-occ&oq=unidirectional+up-occ&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...733507l735518l2l736107l2l2l0l0l0l0l152l220l1j1l2l0.frgbld.&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=37b244dfe41e981b&biw=1360&bih=667


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> Like i have said, i use the same description used by my supplier who i get the wire from. Go on Google and do a search for Unidirectional UP OCC and you will see all the big names show up.
> 
> up-selling, have you seen my prices.


 


  Ok, I may have issues with lack of transparency (It seems like a phantom problem at that) I'd want to associate with straight shooters..no mumbo jumbo aka buzzwords. . You use BS buzzwords. Ok, that's fine, If I was into Silver cables I'd give you business. Your cables are revered and are awesome looking. My initial post had nothing to do with your products actual performance.
  Just my simple curiosity about whether or not you were A. Misleading B. Using buzzwords. C. Uninformed yourself 
   
  And by up-selling I wasn't talking about money....


----------



## Toxic Cables

Here is another good link http://www.kosmic.us/pcocc-a-by-furukawa.html


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ok, I may have issues with lack of transparency (It seems like a phantom problem at that) I'd want to associate with straight shooters..no mumbo jumbo aka buzzwords. . You use BS buzzwords. Ok, that's fine, If I was into Silver cables I'd give you business. Your cables are revered and are awesome looking. My initial post had nothing to do with your products actual performance.
> Just my simple curiosity about whether or not you were A. Misleading B. Using buzzwords. C. Uninformed yourself
> 
> And by up-selling I wasn't talking about money....


 

 I am neither misleading, uninformed or using buzzwords and i think any further replies to yourself is pointless.


----------



## paradoxper

Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> That should be in our permanent collection of smily's.


 
   
  Yeah, love that one. Stole it from diyAudio. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Don't forget, the signal has to return from whence it came in order to be drawn to its destination in the first place.


 
   
  Well, the _*current*_ has to return. But as I said, the signal proper is the TEM wave that propagates down the cable. It's initiated at the source and terminates at the load. Any of that coming back would be a reflection, which can be problematic in high frequency lines, but not a problem at audio frequencies as the electrical wavelengths are too long to have anything resembling a reflection in the line.
   
  se


----------



## ianmedium

Wow, away for a few minutes and it seems personal attacks are taking place! Frank is just about the most stand up guy I have dealt with with audio related matters, up there with Ray Samuels. He has always been really clear on what he provides and is not pulling the wool over anyones eyes! He is doing what all the other cable makers here do which is to tell us what the cables are made of. I have now twice dealt with Frank and will do so again and again as his prices are great and cable very very well made and sounds great, especially in comparison to some much more expensive cables that I have seen both on headfi and other forums.

Frank has repeatedly stated that he got his description from his supplier, when we all see something be it on ebay or somewhere else we all use the same for the item provided by the manufacturer and that is what Frank has done here and even went as far as to name one of his suppliers and provide a link to that supplier where he got the description from so i do not think frank is mis leading anyone.

I have not seen any other cable manufactures do that!


----------



## ianmedium

To add.
Here are 3 of the most well known cable manufacturers on head-fi using the exact same description as Frank so why is anyone not questioning this??

I found these with the links Frank provided in his posts.

http://www.32ohmaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=63_66_80&products_id=348 

http://www.whiplashproaudio.com/whiplash-hd800-replacement-cable.html 

]http://cryo-parts.com/index.php/hook-up-wire/cryoparts/scscag-wire


----------



## sridhar3

Okay, I'm sick of this crap.  The direction this thread is going in is pissing me off, and I'm going to catch flak for saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway:  Whoopdee-doo.  Frank's using marketing buzzwords.  So are ALO/32ohm, Whiplash, Cryoparts, <InsertAftermarketCableManufacturerNameHere> etc. etc. ad nauseum ad infinitum.  A large majority of people selling aftermarket cables are doing this.  That's what marketing is.  I don't see anybody complaining about "1,000,000:1" and "Infinity" contrast ratios in TVs.  That's all bullsh*t, and so is this.  This isn't any different.  Bottom line, buzzwords and aggressive marketing make bank.
   
  That said, however: The wire may be "rectangular", but in my estimation I doubt that has any impact on the sound quality.  The wire may be "OCC", but in my estimation I doubt that has any impact on the sound quality.  In my estimation, silver probably doesn't do anything different from copper.  In my opinion, I doubt anybody can hear a difference between "6N" and "7N".  Though the marketingspeak may ultimately be true with regards to the wire composition/shape/topology/etc., in my honest opinion it probably has little meaningful bearing on applicability in the real world.  If you told me you could hear the difference between "rectangular" and "round" wire, or between "6N" and "7N" silver, the only result would be that I would probably never take anything you had to say seriously ever again.  So, then, why even include this information?
   
  Simple: Because marketing sells.  It sounds smart and cool and hip.  It makes it seem like one product is better or more awesome than another.  Sure, some may consider it "psychological manipulation", others may consider it "deceptive marketing" or what have you, but at the end of the day, it sells stuff.  And that's what's important to businesses.  Selling stuff and making the epic cash moneys.
   
  However, within this exist two slightly more subtle points, which are worthy of your consideration:
  1.) Don't take their word for it.  This stuff shouldn't be taken at face value.  Subject this stuff to scrutiny and hold them accountable.  Not necessarily scientific scrutiny, but at the very least, employ some reason and logic in your thought process.  If somebody sells me a cable that's made of 7N silver, I had damn well better be able to cut that cable open, send that silver to a lab, and have the lab tell me it's 7N.  If it's anything less than 7N, that means I was lied to.  If you made my cable and wrote on your website that the cable uses 7N silver, the "burden of proof" rests with you.  Don't try to shift blame to the guy who supplied your silver.  He might've duped you, but you duped me too.  So don't think you can vindicate yourself by playing the age-old finger-pointing game.  It won't work.  If you don't know what they're selling you, that means you don't know what you're buying, and you didn't do your due diligence in researching, and that's your damn job.  I shouldn't *have to* send my wire to a lab.  You should've done that long before you sold it to me.  If you admit you don't know, then I have a iota more of respect for you, but you still screwed up big.  The same goes for causation.  If you tell me that "OCC" results in better sound quality, then you need to prove it.  If your cable is better, prove it.  Tell me why I should part with my hard-earned money.  Give me a reason I can relate to.
  If you're the consumer, it's your money.  Know what you're buying.  You have two options: Buy blindly, or research and buy.  Make the right choice.  Turning a blind eye is equivalent to enabling this sort of thing to go on.  The industry thrives on this sort of apathy.
  2.) Just because "everybody" does it doesn't make it right.  If you want, you can give me a mile-long list of companies that use buzzword marketing.  Guess what I'm going to do?  I'm going to go find companies that *don't* use buzzword marketing.  Why?  Because they're not treating me, the customer, like I'm some kind of an idiot, like a guy who'll get that sparkle in my eye when I read that the wire is "OCC".  Instead, I'll read "OCC" and ask, "What does that mean to me?".  The guy who's honest when he's selling me a cable, and regards me as an informed consumer, the guy who respects the sanctity of what matters in the real world, is the guy I'd rather give my money to.  That guy has his head screwed on straight, while the rest of the charlatans flap their gaping maws and try to pull me in with their gimmicks.  I don't want gimmicks, I want something tangible for my money.  I want to be sold a good product, not a bunch of words.  Words are wind.

 Go ahead and flame me.  Tell me I'm wrong.  I'm ready for you.


----------



## Devarika Woulf

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Okay, I'm sick of this crap.  The direction this thread is going in is pissing me off, and I'm going to catch flak for saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway:
> 
> Go ahead and flame me.  Tell me I'm wrong.  I'm ready for you.


 

 I heard very similar things like that with the marketing buzzwords and silver/copper not being different and cables all having a similar sound. So I went the Q and called it a day. I'd have to be rich to buy a cable that is $500 or over when I can't confirm it being any different from a $200 one going from reviews.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Well, the _*current*_ has to return. But as I said, the signal proper is the TEM wave that propagates down the cable. It's initiated at the source and terminates at the load. Any of that coming back would be a reflection, which can be problematic in high frequency lines, but not a problem at audio frequencies as the electrical wavelengths are too long to have anything resembling a reflection in the line.
> 
> se


 

 To a degree, that's all debatable, so how it sounds is what matters, and then how it measures, either substantiates how it sounds or not.  For many of the things that sound better to me, I cannot measure, so I must make a value judgment at that point.
   
  Consumer audio interconnections truthfully, are rife with problems in impedance mismatch and therefore reflections and the like.  By design because the original designers decided such problems didn't matter at audio frequencies.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Wow, away for a few minutes and it seems personal attacks are taking place! Frank is just about the most stand up guy I have dealt with with audio related matters, up there with Ray Samuels. He has always been really clear on what he provides and is not pulling the wool over anyones eyes! He is doing what all the other cable makers here do which is to tell us what the cables are made of. I have now twice dealt with Frank and will do so again and again as his prices are great and cable very very well made and sounds great, especially in comparison to some much more expensive cables that I have seen both on headfi and other forums.
> Frank has repeatedly stated that he got his description from his supplier, when we all see something be it on ebay or somewhere else we all use the same for the item provided by the manufacturer and that is what Frank has done here and even went as far as to name one of his suppliers and provide a link to that supplier where he got the description from so i do not think frank is mis leading anyone.
> I have not seen any other cable manufactures do that!


 

 I have not noticed any personal attacks here.  Would you point them out to me via PM and I will deal with them.  Thanks.
   
  As far as I thought, we were discussing after market cables for the LCD-2/3.  Did I miss something?


----------



## scootermafia

The wire certainly isn't unidirectional if AC is going through it...but I can see how it could be one directional in other situations.  Not sure what Neotech is going for in that description but lots of people copypaste it into their product descriptions.


----------



## IPodPJ

scootermafia said:


> The wire certainly isn't unidirectional if AC is going through it...but I can see how it could be one directional in other situations.  Not sure what Neotech is going for in that description but lots of people copypaste it into their product descriptions.




Are they saying a wire itself is unidirectional or a cable is? To say a single wire is unidirectional is untrue. A cable geometry can be, but only in cases where the drain wire or shield is connected to one side and not the other. Maybe other companies say they have unidirectional cables that connect to special boxes but I'm not going to comment on that.


----------



## Toxic Cables

I have been in touch with 2 of my suppliers who use the same description as i wanted some answers and below is what one had to say although it is a little difficult to understand.
   
  As soon as i have a chance i will edit all my descriptions until i have more news, it was a simple copy and paste job but still my fault for not looking into something further before using it in the descriptions of my cables and assuming it to be true because a lot of other well known names are also using it.
   
  If anyone one feels they purchased one of my cables because of me saying it was unidirectional then please get in touch and i will compensate you for it once i have this cleared up.
   
 [size=x-small] Dear Frank,[/size]
  
 [size=x-small] When the copper/silver wire extruded from the die, will have a little bit direction and we follow this kind direction to cover the insulation. [/size]
 [size=x-small] This mean the material has its own direction not the cable's (like interconnect cable) direction. We think this is the mis-leading the people saying.[/size]
  
  
 [size=x-small] And the direction is from center of spool to outer after packed the wire. [/size]


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> I have been in touch with 2 of my suppliers who use the same description as i wanted some answers and below is what one had to say although it is a little difficult to understand.
> 
> As soon as i have a chance i will edit all my descriptions until i have more news, it was a simple copy and paste job but still my fault for not looking into something further before using it in the descriptions of my cables and assuming it to be true because a lot of other well known names are also using it.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks Kablemeister.  I really appreciate your going after a better understanding for the rest of us in this industry bugaboo.
   
  If I understand what your supplier said, I would guess there is a mechanical unidirectionality to the wire from the extrusion process and this would affect how the insulation extrusion is put on the wire after extrusion.  All of this has nothing to do with the electrical properties of the cable.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ipodpj said:


> Are they saying a wire itself is unidirectional or a cable is? To say a single wire is unidirectional is untrue. A cable geometry can be, but only in cases where the drain wire or shield is connected to one side and not the other. Maybe other companies say they have unidirectional cables that connect to special boxes but I'm not going to comment on that.


 
  Yes, finished cable unidirectionality based upon source/sink star grounding concepts to minimize noise and ground loops makes sense for some finished cables when carrying small signals, but it seems that the industry wide misunderstanding goes deeper than that.


----------



## paradoxper

I'm just going to throw this out there, but I doubt anyone wants to return your cable. I haven't heard one person comment negatively on the actual sound of your cable. Glad all this got cleared up


----------



## zeroakuma

Heyo Steve. I just received the cable and it looks great; unfortunately, I can not review how well the cable goes with the headphone and amp, because my LCD-2 Rev 2 and the HD800 will arrive this Friday. I do not know when my Burson 160 DS will arrive, because the seller I bought it from is a recent high school graduate.
   
  I have to wait a couple of days for the party to start


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


zeroakuma said:


> Heyo Steve. I just received the cable and it looks great; unfortunately, I can not review how well the cable goes with the headphone and amp, because my LCD-2 Rev 2 and the HD800 will arrive this Friday. I do not know when my Burson 160 DS will arrive, because the seller I bought it from is a recent high school graduate.
> 
> I have to wait a couple of days for the party to start


 

 All good things come to those who wait.


----------



## MorbidToaster

But they come faster if you pay more. 
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> zeroakuma said:
> ...


----------



## zeroakuma

Is there also like a plastic wrapper for steve's cable?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


zeroakuma said:


> Is there also like a plastic wrapper for steve's cable?


----------



## ianmedium

Just thought some might be interested, I was talking to Frank today and he said that he will be releasing the first ever full silver LCD-2 LCD-3 cable this weekend.


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:


 
   
  Keep it fresh?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Just thought some might be interested, I was talking to Frank today and he said that he will be releasing the first ever full silver LCD-2 LCD-3 cable this weekend.


 
   
  Is that not the venom?


----------



## Toxic Cables

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Is that not the venom?


 
   
  It is made with the Silver Poison.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





toxic cables said:


> It is made with the Silver Poison.


 
   
  Just seen the cable on the UK meet thread.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Just seen the cable on the UK meet thread.


 
   
  Thanks for the link to the thread Alvin!
   
  Here's a link to the post with pictures and description:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/601003/uk-2012-head-fi-meet-september-15th-cambridgeshire/270#post_8324192
   
  It has machined, solid silver contacts in the connectors!  
   
  This makes so much sense. Why terminate a pure silver cable with something other than pure silver?  
   
  If only we could get our transports, DACs, amps, interconnects, and transducers re-wired in silver.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mike


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Thanks for the link to the thread Alvin!
> 
> Here's a link to the post with pictures and description:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not sure if you are being sarcastic there but the link is right underneath in my sig, no biggie.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





alvin sawdust said:


> Not sure if you are being sarcastic there but the link is right underneath in my sig, no biggie.


 
   
  Oh gee - no sarcasm was intended.  I genuinely think the solid silver contacts are an asset to an already great cable!
   
  Let me add that I've just this morning ordered a balanced Silver Poison from Frank for my LCD-2.
   
  I was thanking you for providing the link to that thread, but I took it further by posting a link to the actual post where Frank's new cable is pictured and described.
   
  I'm with you brother!
   
  Mike


----------



## alvin sawdust

Thats the problem right there with forums, taken the wrong way. No worries friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Looking forward to trying Franks cables myself.


----------



## zilch0md

I hear you Alvin!  We all have a few battle scars that color our perception.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Mike


----------



## ianmedium

Hey Guys.

Have been away travelling this past week so have not been checking emails and the forum, firstly. Mike mate, will pm you today, congrats on the new purchase and you will not regret the silver poison mate!
Secondly, going through my emails Frank updated a conversation we were having last weekend and I thought I would post some pictures he sent me of the all new silver poison reference series!

The cable uses the same stranded OCC silver wire that is used in the Silver poison but the difference comes with the connectors used, Frank uses a higher quality Switchcraft shielded mini XLR body for the headphone end rather then the one used in the standard Poison and the contacts on this XLR plug are made from machined solid silver "not silver plated.
Currently Frank is offering this cable in 4pin balanced and dual 3 pin balanced and again all contacts on these XLR plugs are made from machined solid silver so what you have is a cable that is made with silver tip to tip.

I know it's pure "Bling" but I love the jewels on the dual 3 pin XLR Frank uses a real red Ruby to distinguish right and a real Sapphire for left.

Apparently it can be had naked or sheathed. Must admit I am loving the naked version I have of my non reference Silver poisons!

Price starts at £295 for a 6ft cable with a 10% introductory discount for the next 7days

Frank is also offering balanced XLR cables with solid silver contacts

The only issue I have with this cable is that my mini SR71-B balanced adaptor won't work with this cable :mad: Maybe it's time to get a full sized amp :roll eyes:

Here are some pictures, sure looks purdy!








Oh yes, I know there are some less than nice people on this forum so I will just state I have no interest in this company other than happy customer and wanting to see a good guy do well. The other cable guys here get a more than fair shake at the stick so why not the new guy?
I have a review coming of my new version silver poison, it has got delayed due to my unexpected travels of late. Looking forward to posting it this week.


----------



## DarknightDK

Looks absolutely gorgeous!


----------



## MorbidToaster

Mmmm...Bare silver...
   
  Want.


----------



## CanDude

*Red astrachan LCD-2/3 cable*
  This is my review of the red astrachan LCD-2/3 cable from KDM in Sweden. I have mainly compared it to Q-Audio, which is the cable I have used (until now), but also to the standard cable from Audez’e.
   
*Manufacturer’s info*
  silver plated multi-strand cable
 50 ohms impedance
 Teflon isolation
 twisted pair configuration
 silver soldering
 high quality connectors (balanced available)
 silver plated Cu braid shielding
 ferromagnetic damping
   
  Price: 3,500 SEK (approx. 414 USD excl. VAT)
 KDM site: http://www.kdmfidelity.com
   
*My setup*
  Flac > J River Media Center 17 with 112dB redline monitor plugin (to get rid of the false in-the-head headphone stereo image without altering the sound too much) > Halide Bridge > Lavry DA11 > Harmony Design EAR 909 > balanced cable > 2011 non-veiled LCD-3 (and briefly LCD-2r2)
   
*Look and feel*
  The cable is all white, except for the red plastic covering the ferrite core, with a plastic sleeve holding the non-braided cables. Length 2.5 m. Rean mini XLRs, Neutrik silver plated 4-pole XLR. Short adapter cable (on my request) with Neutrik gold plated plug. The cable is quite stiff, it kind of has a will of its own.  Coming from the excellent comfort of Q-Audio this was a chock. Due to the structure of the plastic sleeve the cable is also microphonic. They should have opted for a fabric sleeve instead IMO. Build quality is good (although the right cable is a tiny bit longer than the left one). The cable seems durable.
   

   

   
*Sound*
  Remember that I compare cables. You may not hear the differences in the same way that I do, you have a different setup, you play another type of music than I do etc.  You may not even care for sub bass… 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The red astrachan now has over 250 hours of burn-in, just to be sure. Overall the red astrachan has a somewhat analytical sound, a little bit less “creamy” than both Q-Audio and the standard cable. Think LCD-3 goes HE-6. You might say that the red astrachan presents a sound stage in front of you while Q-Audio more demands your attention inside your head. I have noticed that my feet move more with red astrachan than with Q-Audio or the standard cable so I guess the PRaT factor is high, at least for me. This could be because of the somewhat “smiley” presentation compared to the other cables.
   
*Bass*
  I did not realize how much Q-Audio attenuates the sub bass until I compared it with the red astrachan and also with the standard cable, which I had not used before. With the red astrachan you can almost physically “feel” the sub bass, if exists in the recording, in your head somewhere towards the throat. With Q-Audio this “physical feeling” is not as prominent. The standard cable also has more sub bass than Q-Audio, but not as clean. Overall I find the standard cable, while not bad, a little bit muddy and “uninteresting”. LCD-2/3 deserves better IMO.
   
  So what do I mean by "bass that feels in your throat"? Listen to Pink Floyd’s album “Dark side of the moon”, 2011 remaster. There are of course the heart beats in "Speak to me" but also listen to the low frequency rumble in "Breathe (in the air)" at approx. 0:40, 0:45 and 1:00. This rumble is more physical obvious with red astrachan than with Q-Audio.
   
  At the same time the higher bass frequencies maybe are a little bit more prominent with Q-Audio.
   
  Ane Brun’s excellent album “It all starts with one” (that you probably never heard of…) really shows the bass qualities for the LCD-3 + red astrachan combo.
   
*Mids*
  The mids are a little bit recessed with red astrachan compared to Q-Audio. Voices are perceived as a little bit more distant with red astrachan and closer with Q-Audio. Listening to Peter Gabriel’s “classical” album “New blood” (24/48 flac) red astrachan gives a greater sense of depth, it’s easier to localize the classical instruments, while Q-Audio presents a closer and somewhat “flatter” picture. Horns are a little bit easier to follow with the red astrachan. Depending on the mix the red astrachan can be more analytical, making it easier to notice low level details. Q-Audio may be perceived as being a little bit overall louder because of its stronger mids.
   
  Note that voices are not necessarily “colder” with the red astrachan, they can actually be softer than with the Q-Audio, depending on the mix.
   
*Treble*
  The red astrachan has a little bit more treble energy than Q-Audio. Cymbals, "t", "s" and other spitting qualities in vocals are more prominent with red astrachan. When listening to Warren Zevon’s “Finishing touch” it is really easy to follow the hi-hat as it almost stands out from the rest of the music, while with Q-Audio the hi-hat is not as prominent. In this case I think the red astrachan’s tonal balance is shifted towards the treble a little bit too much.
   
*Studio monitor comparison*
  Using my Event Opal studio monitors as a reference, the red astrachan treble level is a little bit more correct than Q-Audio, it even has a little bit more energy in the highest frequencies than the monitors.
   
  Ane Brun's voice shows that Q-Audio is more correct in the mids than the red astrachan, which is a little bit colder. Q-Audio gives Ane's voice a somewhat fuller, "rounder" quality, as it has with the monitors.
   
  If I, while listening to Ane Brun on the monitors, put the LCD-3 on my head using the Q-Audio cable, the voice is the same, you immediately recognize it as the same “entity”. Amazing. With the red astrachan cable the voice changes a little bit, it becomes a little bit more distant, you hear that it is a different representation of the same source.
   
*LCD-2*
  The red astrachan really helps LCD-2 with the deep bass and also the treble. However, when comparing LCD-2r2 + red astrachan with LCD-3 + Q-Audio the sub bass is still more extended and powerful with LCD-3 + Q-Audio. The LCD-2 treble is also still less extended compared to LCD-3. Nothing transforms LCD-2 to LCD-3, period!
   
*HDP*
  The last test is to use Nuforce HDP instead of DA11 + EAR 909. The red astrachan also works with this setup, however with the brighter presentation of HDP. (I wonder if RMA’d LCD-3s sound like this?)
   
*Conclusion*
  Since a cable cannot amplify any part of the sound it has to mean the Q-Audio attenuates the sub bass and also the treble a tiny bit, not showing what LCD-2/3 is capable of. In the same manner the red astrachan alters the mids, unfortunately.
   
  For me the "perfect" cable would be something like this:
 bass: red astrachan
 high bass + mids: Q-Audio
 treble: red astrachan 60% Q-Audio 40%
 depth: red astrachan
 comfort: Q-Audio
   
[size=11.0pt]Even though I know that Q-Audio probably has the most correct mids and superior ergonomics, the red astrachan is so fun to listen to so I mostly use it, even though I try hard to go back to Q-Audio again (the review cable is a loaner). I just love to feel that bass![/size]


----------



## spookanide (Jan 4, 2018)

A few impressions by an LCD2 noob (2 month owner) that bought a few cables to try. It's the 2016 new membrane version with fazor, bamboo cups. I found it difficult to find context impressions of these cans with different cables so I'm sharing mine.

Backstory: Got the LCD2 to reacquire the bass I was missing with the hifiman HE400i. On the stock cable I was using an ifi iCAN SE for a while, with the bass EQ on the iCAN set on level 1 (it's either on 0, 1, 2). It was a little overpowering at times but I got used to it. Not much later after getting the LCD2s I acquired a questyle CMA400i amp (what's with me and 400i products eh?) but I found the bass slightly lacking as I probably got spoiled by that thick iCAN sound.

Listening style: I fell in love with the sub-like bass experience of the LCD2 and its natural-sounding way of presenting detail and depth. I tend to be sensitive to the 4-8kHz higher mids region. I listen from anything like indie rock, synthpop, stoner metal to modern classical arranged soundtracks. Currently I am running foobar with a 1.5 dB EQ up to 70 Hz.

Cable I was very satisfied with: The new Audeze braided style single-ended cable made the highs smoother and made the whole a nice step up pleasing to me. Not sure if they're worth that pricepoint, but I picked them over the stock while demoing in a store. Low-end and mids are about the same to me, compared to the stock cable. Microphonics were pretty much non-existent as the insulator is very smooth. Does tend to twist a little, but all I really care about is the sound.

Now using: LCD2 with a Periapt Cables balanced terminated 7ft. I also demo'd the Audeze stock flat cable in a balanced termination, but wasn't impressed at the time. People recommended I give it a shot so I ordered an affordable cable by Periapt. I haven't used the balanced output except for that one demo moment, but I can tell the presentation has changed to be slightly roomier whether it's the cable or the amp. Will report in/edit this post at a later time when I listened to it more.

*edit*
Wow, thread necromancy much!


----------



## stevedlu

Rocking the Kimber AXIOS copper for the LCD-3. Made a huge impact to the imaging and low-end. Love it. However I have not tried any other aftermarket cable besides some cheap one from amazon, so it may be overpriced for the performance, but it sure is sexy.


----------



## CrazyRay

Norse Audio Skuld 4 cables


----------



## Violent_Sneeze

Copper Norne Draug 3 for my LCD2 Classics.


----------



## Sotiris

Good mornig guys!

Can you propose me a *European* company that builds good cables for Lcd 2? Except toxic cables....


----------



## HailToTheKing

Lavricables is pretty responsive if you want a silver cable. I have ordered two times from Konstantin and I had both cables at my door within 2 weeks.

The build and looks are decent and while I never expect big sound differences from cables I am satisfied with what the ultimate series did for my Sennheiser HD 650 
No experience with Audeze though. 

*if you live in Greece I think south-sounds.com has some wireworld cables for the Audezes


----------



## Sotiris

HailToTheKing said:


> Lavricables is pretty responsive if you want a silver cable. I have ordered two times from Konstantin and I had both cables at my door within 2 weeks.
> 
> The build and looks are decent and while I never expect big sound differences from cables I am satisfied with what the ultimate series did for my Sennheiser HD 650
> No experience with Audeze though.
> ...



Thanks for the reply! Yes i live in Greece , i have contact south sound to have a tesr drive of wireworld. The problen is that nowhere i have read a review about their cables. And everybody says that litz is the best cable structure and they dont have it...Also here in Greece the prices is too hight compared to buying the same products from Europe. Not to mention USA...


----------



## HailToTheKing

Yeah I feel the same about the prices.. 

Anyway the European options I know are Lavricables, Forza Audioworks and Toxic cables.

Lavricables only offers pure silver cables, Forza audioworks has a bigger variety but has some delays and toxic cables is closed due to the recent unfortunate events..


----------



## Sotiris

HailToTheKing said:


> Yeah I feel the same about the prices..
> 
> Anyway the European options I know are Lavricables, Forza Audioworks and Toxic cables.
> 
> Lavricables only offers pure silver cables, Forza audioworks has a bigger variety but has some delays and toxic cables is closed due to the recent unfortunate events..


 

Lavricables seem good cables good nice price!! Silver cable is good you think for Lcd s? I am reading about the one for LCD4 at 456euros...


----------



## HailToTheKing

I don't own an Lcd so I am not the right guy to answer to be honest.
What I can tell is that the lavricables ultimate series made the the hd 650 a little more lively, faster, open, exciting without introducing harshness.

Considering that the lcd-2 has a similar warm character to the hd 650 it could be a good match but I'd rather let actual lcd owners speak


----------



## spookanide

Hi guys, I am selling my Draug cable for LCD please have a look. Adds a little bit of vocal warmth and a touch of highs to the experience. The 2-6k region is very nicely controlled with these. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wts-norne-audio-draug-2-4pin-xlr-balanced-audeze-mini-xlr.886374/


----------



## Sotiris

HailToTheKing said:


> I don't own an Lcd so I am not the right guy to answer to be honest.
> What I can tell is that the lavricables ultimate series made the the hd 650 a little more lively, faster, open, exciting without introducing harshness.
> 
> Considering that the lcd-2 has a similar warm character to the hd 650 it could be a good match but I'd rather let actual lcd owners speak




I just received the Lavricables 20 cores pure silver for my LCD2 fazor. I can state that compared to stock cables ITS A NEW LCD....Totally most enjoying, more sub bass,real vocal, smooth highs...Totally recommended.


----------



## Lonson

I have an LCD-2 and with the XLR connection to my Decware Taboo Mk III, Tabloo Mk IV and CSP3-25th anniversary I have used the stock cables, a cable I bought made with Cardas 4-24 wire, a Moon Audio Silver Dragon, and a set of ArcticCables made with UPOCC copper. I was using the Moon Audio most, really liking what it does to curtail the sort of slightly-veiled warmth of these headphones, but lost one channel for some reason. I then ordered the ArcticCable as I really am a fan of Ohno copper and boy, these are excellent cables. Just perfect tonal balance and no fatigue to the sound. As a result I ordered a cable from ArcticCables for my Sennheiser HD-800S and am experiencing similar sonic happiness.

The cable with Cardas wire is good. . . it has a slightly bigger, slightly less fast, perhaps more "classic" sound. 

Since I moved the Taboo Mk IV from my main system and replaced it with the CSP3 25th Anniversary edition (as I'm using it also as a preamp for my Decwre SE84UFO3 25th Edition Monoblocks) I have been getting best results with the Sennheisers and their ArcticCables and will probably sell the LCD-2 so they will get use from someone and not just sit in a box. The Sennheisers and the CSP3 are a great combination (especially as I am using a Decware ZROCK2 to eq the system).


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## kckfor

Ultrainferno said:


> I fully agree, 3m is too short or way too long. all my aftermarket cables are 15ft


Do you have a favorite 15ft cable?


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## Ultrainferno (Sep 16, 2022)

kckfor said:


> Do you have a favorite 15ft cable?


Forza AudioWorks Noir HPC Mk2
Norn Audio pure copper occ Litz

You just quoted a 10 yo post btw 😁


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