# The best speaker cables I have ever heard *** photos ***



## downsize

Because my interconnect thread was so successful, I added this thread too ... LOL
   
  6N purity copper foil that is .006 thick and 13 ga. Constructed using double sided teflon tape using a synthetic adhesive which sticks to teflon, and the tape is only .007 thick. The outer layer of teflon tape is also .007 thick.
   
  The most open and transparent speaker cable I have personally ever heard in my 25 yrs of audio pursuit.


----------



## Lenni

another beautiful job. how much did they cost to make, material only, may I ask?


----------



## dura

This seems easy and affordable to try out for many of us; could you please mention the exact parts used?


----------



## downsize

The tape can be ordered from any major tape supplier, but it has to be made to your specs .... as double sided teflon strips are not something they would ever stock. There is a minimum order usually, as i had to order 25 100ft rolls, and it is fairly expensive. The outer teflon tape also had to be made up, but was much less expensive due to the single sided construction.
   
  The foil can just be inductor foil if you want. I bought the 6N stuff from a medical instrument company that supplies parts for surgical machines. It was also VERY expensive, but I got a good discount, because my wife is a nurse and knows the Rep.
   
  These cost me about $350 for an 8ft pair including the techflex and connectors. They are not overly difficult to make, as long as you take your time. The tape is VERY sticky, so mistakes are not repairable !
   
  HTH


----------



## dura

Interesting, thanks!


----------



## downsize

You can come out MUCH cheaper, and still get good results if you use foil from a Goertz inductor, and Poly propelene tape instead. Got to findtape.com for the poly pro tape.


----------



## DaveBSC

Very interesting design. I wonder how they would compare to the Omega Mikro ribbon cables, which are suspended in a copper wire "mesh" which is then charged with a battery. I would like to try Omega Mikro stuff sometime, just because their cables are so unusual.


----------



## Lenni

I wonder how it'd compare to the Goertz's. if I hadn't just bought a pair of IC's I'd probably ask downsize if he'd send me a pair. It'd be nice to get some comparisons


----------



## downsize

Quote: 





davebsc said:


> Very interesting design. I wonder how they would compare to the Omega Mikro ribbon cables, which are suspended in a copper wire "mesh" which is then charged with a battery. I would like to try Omega Mikro stuff sometime, just because their cables are so unusual.


 


 I have never heard those cables Dave .... but as far as I know, NONE of the other foils I have ever heard of use anything more than 99.95% purity copper, and the ones i make are a medical grade 6N purity. I can't personally imagine getting much better sound from speaker cables as what I get from mine, but am open minded enough to hope to find even better !


----------



## downsize

I used to own two different Goertz cables .... The MI2, and the AG3 .... and these are just way more natural and balanced to my ears. They also dig out more information, due to their thinner conductors and insulation.


----------



## customNuts

Very impressive downsize. I'm jealous!


----------



## downsize

If anyone wants to make their own pair of these, using the same materials I did, *I still have enough of the supplies for one more pair*. Pm me if you want to buy the remaining supplies from me, for less than I paid for them. The only thing I ask, is you write a review of your opinions of the cable and post it up.


----------



## krmathis

Another excellent cable job. Well done!


----------



## unfairlane

I remember years back when the CFC copperfoil filtercoils appeared a lot of people went lost in this foil-thing because they didn`t realise why the foil-coils were superior to the round thread as coils. My wery-high-end buddy had made up a set for his 4-way active JBL diy`s and showed them to me proudly.
   Since he was rebuilding his house I knew he had some std solid core copper 12awg-based cable leftovers, so I asked if I could cut it up for a compare.
  He has never used his copper foil cables again.
   
   Me I`m using a bunch of 9awg`s on my 4-way; 4x9awg to each post for basses, 2x9awg to the low mids aso.
   Thick solid core is the way to go, not flat, stranded or anything, just big enough to not restrict the amp.


----------



## downsize

Quote: 





unfairlane said:


> I remember years back when the CFC copperfoil filtercoils appeared a lot of people went lost in this foil-thing because they didn`t realise why the foil-coils were superior to the round thread as coils. My wery-high-end buddy had made up a set for his 4-way active JBL diy`s and showed them to me proudly.
> Since he was rebuilding his house I knew he had some std solid core copper 12awg-based cable leftovers, so I asked if I could cut it up for a compare.
> He has never used his copper foil cables again.
> 
> ...


 

 Thick solid core cable is the absolute worst possible choice. I have tried it in ALL gauges and configurations. It smears the bass, and SERIOUSLY rolls off the highs. This is very easy to measure. ANY solid core larger than 18ga will rolll off the highs ... FACT.


----------



## nick_charles

Quote: 





downsize said:


> Thick solid core cable is the absolute worst possible choice. I have tried it in ALL gauges and configurations. It smears the bass, and SERIOUSLY rolls off the highs. This is very easy to measure. ANY solid core larger than 18ga will rolll off the highs ... FACT.


 


 Interesting, I used to use solid core mains cable back in the 1980s (it was the tweak de jour) but I gave up on this as it was just a massive PITA to work with. Do you have any FR measurements on this vs stranded, you could post them in the science forum so this thread does not go too far OT - cheers.


----------



## downsize

Quote: 





nick_charles said:


> Interesting, I used to use solid core mains cable back in the 1980s (it was the tweak de jour) but I gave up on this as it was just a massive PITA to work with. Do you have any FR measurements on this vs stranded, you could post them in the science forum so this thread does not go too far OT - cheers.


 


  Any and all measurements I have done in my 25 yrs in audio, were done for personal knowledge, and not as a scientist with a reason or need to record or publish my findings. So I do not have recorded data available. However if you search the different audio forums, you will find MANY people who have measured and found this to be the case. it is not due to solid core though ,,, It is due to the size of the conductor. Many, many knowledgable high fi gurus use extremely small gauge wires for speaker wire and interconnects, because of the extended frequency response, and cleaner sound.


----------



## downsize

Here is just one article I found with me very first search on Google ....  Take a quick look at what he finds when comparing speaker wire gauges, as well as interconnect gauge ...
   
http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm
   
  You can find a lot of articles where people have measured larger speaker cables rolling off high frequencies.


----------



## downsize

Something else to consider ... I have found that foils need to be equivalent to a heavier gauge than does standard round wire, or it will sound thin. And I have found foils to be considerably more sensitive to metal purity than standard wire.


----------



## unfairlane

Quote: 





downsize said:


> Thick solid core cable is the absolute worst possible choice. I have tried it in ALL gauges and configurations. It smears the bass, and SERIOUSLY rolls off the highs. This is very easy to measure. ANY solid core larger than 18ga will rolll off the highs ... FACT.


 


        Another hifi legend. Heavy gauge single solid core cleans up the sound and improves dynamics drasticly by reduzing resistanse. Another legend is telling that sound only travels at the outside of the conductors, skin-effekt at audiofrequensies is another misleading legend.
    If you`ve ever looked into a rather heavy poweramp you might have notived that the powercaps and the output-transistors are connected by rather heavy wiring or mybe huge massive copper. Ever thought of why it`s done like this? The speakercables should be of the same caliber, and as short as possible. Put your money in monoblocks, not cables.
   
     This little toy might be an eye-opener:
   
       http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/Java/twin.html
   
   
     edit: Now if anyone runs to try out thick* sc copper (*begins at 9awg) in their system they might be dissapointet at first. Why? The copper needs an hour of heavy massage before it opens up. After that you can pull your speakers a bit more out on the floor to compensate for the improved bass-dynamics.
   
    btw; I`m a heavy duty audiophile speakerdesigner and has offcourse done meashurements on this way back.


----------



## DaveBSC

Quote: 





unfairlane said:


> Another hifi legend. Heavy gauge single solid core cleans up the sound and improves dynamics drasticly by reduzing resistanse. Another legend is telling that sound only travels at the outside of the conductors, skin-effekt at audiofrequensies is another misleading legend.


 
  Sorry, but I have to disagree. Resistance is only one factor in cable design. It's good to stay within a minimum of 12 AWG total (15 AWG per leg) for a full range speaker, or you start running in to problems like restricted bass response. This should be achieved with multiple runs of much smaller conductors though. Further improvements can be made with a larger cable (to a point), but there really isn't a need to go larger than 8 AWG total.
   
  Using one big fat copper wire for + and - is about the worst way possible to build a speaker cable. NO high-end cable company does it that way. Not one, and for good reason.


----------



## downsize

Since I used to own a repair dept in my store which had oscillocscope, RTA, etc, etc .....  I have done the testing, done the measurements, and clearly could see the frequencies rolling off .... Not audiophile fiction, but fact.
   
  Want a true piece of fiction ???   Large gauge wires DO NOT offer more bass, only perceived bass due to mid-bass bloat.  Want tighter, faster, cleaner bass ?   Go with 18 ga and enjoy the improvement in bass quality.
   
  I'm through with the debate though, as I have already covered this testing about 15 yrs ago.
   
  Cheers


----------



## nick_charles

Quote: 





downsize said:


> Since I used to own a repair dept in my store which had oscillocscope, RTA, etc, etc .....  I have done the testing, done the measurements, and clearly could see the frequencies rolling off .... Not audiophile fiction, but fact.


 

  
  But at what point and by how much ?
   
  The last two set of tests I saw showed FR pretty flat on all but really exotic designs up to 50K or 100K - in general 10 foot of 12 gauge stranded wire is less than 0.1dB down at 20kHz  into 4ohms- a roll off above 20K is not a big deal but below 15K it would be


----------



## downsize

Cool stuff !   Here is the body of an email I just received from a guy who bought a pair of my foil speaker cables ... I just love hearing stuff like this !  He has a VERY nice reference system, and compared my cables to his Crystal Cable Dreamline series !  The Crystals he has are a VERY expensive pair of speaker cables too.
   
  "[size=medium][size=11pt] Hi Josh,

 Sorry for the delay in getting back with you – had to do some traveling and was in the midst of a couple moves in the system.  Comparable system to System (PP and SET tube amps) it was interesting.  Your Foils seem to have a better leading edge dynamic and were a bit warmer – in the sense that they seemed to bring everything down a quarter octave toward the sweet spot.  I would not say the Crystals are light in the bass, but the foils offered a bit fuller bottom end. "[/size][/size]


----------



## Rdr. Seraphim

Moved to "The Best Interconnect" thread...


----------



## cath60b

Hi I'm responding to your add about buying your remaining stock of flat wire. Please email me about length and price and would gladly give a review  of them after built. Thanks, Americo


----------



## mcct93

WOW ! Unique Cable.


----------



## downsize

Quote: 





mcct93 said:


> WOW ! Unique Cable.


 


   Thank you.  I am about to make some speaker cables from 97/3  silver/gold foil  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    I figure it should look as good as it sounds LOL ...


----------



## JRG1990

I need help choosing some speaker cables, for material should i go for copper , tinned copper , silver plated copper , also more or less strands 7 , 13 or 42 , due to the speakers speaker wire slots i am limted to a 1.5mm2 conductor size.


----------



## downsize

Hail, hail .... Even better speaker cables now exist !   I decided to make an upgraded version of the original foils.*  These are 11 ga 8N copper foils that are .007 thick by 2" wide, and still use the Teflon adhesive tape for construction.  *This pair happens to have pure copper spades on them.  Cheers !


----------



## palchiu

Quote: 





downsize said:


> Hail, hail .... Even better speaker cables now exist !   I decided to make an upgraded version of the original foils.*  These are 11 ga 8N copper foils that are .007 thick by 2" wide, and still use the Teflon adhesive tape for construction.  *This pair happens to have pure copper spades on them.  Cheers !


 

 That's more professional looking!
   
  Well done!


----------

