# Streaming Audio Devices: review and information thread (Updated 4/23 with JF Digital review)



## project86

*INTRO*
  It’s commonly stated that physical media is on the way out. Soon we will operate purely in the digital realm, with all of our music being downloaded and stored on hard drives. We are already there when it comes to portable systems – it’s exceedingly rare to find anyone using portable CD or minidisc players. Back at the house, most of us have at least some computer involvement in our system; from simply backing up our physical media for archive purposes to full on media servers. A growing number of folks have gone all out and no longer own a dedicated CD player.
   
  I agree that physical media will eventually be replaced but I question the timeline put forth by most media outlets. Audiophiles in particular are a special case – they are more than willing to put up with the inconvenience of physical media if there is even the slightest chance of improved sound quality. For that reason I expect CDs to be around for a long time to come, even if they do become somewhat of a niche market.
   
  There has been much progress lately with respect to USB DACs, and it is easier than ever to get a high quality connection to your computer. So what’s all the fuss about? Part of the problem that many people have with making the switch is the computer itself. Many people just aren’t comfortable with the thought of having their computer integrated into their audio system. Your average computer is still a cumbersome, unattractive, noisy box with very little focus on audio. Laptops are smaller but how do you fit them into an audio rack? Yes, there has been some progress in this area, but I still believe it is a hindrance for many people.
   
  One solution to this problem is to use a dedicated device for playback of your audio files. It might simply be a frontend that pulls files off a network, letting you store the computer itself in a different room. Or it might actually be a complete replacement, a sort of purpose built computer dedicated to audio reproduction. I’ve long been interested in these types of devices. So I set out to test a few of them and write up my experiences. That idea has snowballed into a larger project than I anticipated but has also been a lot of fun. This is just the beginning of what will eventually turn into a large thread documenting my reviews of multiple devices as well as compiling helpful information for anyone interested.
   
  One of the most important aspects of these devices is the way a user interacts with it. A device can sound great and have every feature you can think of, but that won’t matter if it is frustratingly difficult to navigate through the menus. I’m not big on shooting videos, so the best way I can think to share the user experience with the reader is by showing pictures. Lots of pictures. I apologize in advance if someone is viewing this on a phone or other bandwidth-limited device. My photography skills are poor (at best), but I hope to use quantity to make up for the lack of quality.
   
  Note that I’m posting this in the “Computer Audio” section. Despite the fact that these devices aim to replace your computer, we are still in the realm of hard drives and networks rather than the traditional “Dedicated Source Components” type stuff.
   
*REQUIREMENTS*
  There are plenty of devices out there that can play audio tracks, either by streaming or else reading them directly off a hard drive/SD card. But my focus here is on dedicated audio only devices. No Blu-Ray players with SD card slots, no Western Digital TV or Roku style boxes. Not that there is anything wrong with those devices. They just don’t fit with my focus.
   
  I went into this with basically three main requirements:
   
  1) The device needs to handle FLAC files. I consider this the standard for serious listening.
   
  2) It needs to have a dedicated display, capable of file navigation and most other basic functions. The majority of us don’t have (or want to have) a monitor in our listening systems.
   
  3) The device must have a digital output for use with an outboard DAC. It can be toslink, coaxial, or AES/EBU. It doesn’t matter as long as it is digital. This will keep it relevant should the user ever want to upgrade.
   
  With those requirements in mind, I compiled a list of devices to test. Some I purchased. Some I borrowed from friends. Some I got on loan from the manufacturer. All were treated equally no matter how I got a hold of them. I intend to keep testing more devices when possible. I’ll also compile a list of qualifying gear that I don’t yet have access to, and I would appreciate any suggestions that I’ve missed.
   
  I was torn about how to handle certain devices that barely missed the requirements. The most common issue was the display – many products rely purely on iPhone/iPad/Android devices as the sole means of control. I decided to exclude these for now, since I feel like it adds an extra requirement to what might already be an expensive device. I’m all for Apple/Android support as an optional enhancement, but I’d rather it not be the only method. Speaking of Apple – I’m similarly divided about whether or not to include something like an iPad. When used with a digital dock like the inexpensive Pure Audio i-20, it meets two of our three requirements. The remaining issue is the fact that iPads do not have native support for FLAC files. Option one is to use a third party app (FLAC Player or Golden Ear) to accomplish FLAC playback, but the interfaces on both are fairly limited. Option two is to convert your FLAC files to Apple’s lossless ALAC format which would then play natively. That seems ideal except for the prospect of converting hundred of gigabytes worth of music. Still, I might explore the iPad option down the road, since I already have one anyway.
   
   
*EQUIPMENT*
  This is the associated equipment used for listening. This is a long term project so I’ve used almost of all of my gear at one point or another. Clicking the device will bring up my review thread, where applicable.
   
  DACs: Violectric V800, Anedio D1, Audio GD Reference 7, Matrix Quattro DAC, Kao Audio UD2C-HP, Yulong Sabre D18, Lars Audio DAC-1 MKII
   
  Headphone Amps: Violectric V200, Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2, Matrix Quattro amp, Yulong A100, Matrix M-Stage
   
  Headphones: Sennheiser HD800 and HD600, Lawton Audio LA7000, Grado PS1000, Audio Technica W1000 and W1000X, AKG K701, Unique Melody Merlin, JH Audio JH13, Westone ES3X, 1964 Ears 1964-T
   
  I also used a speaker setup with my Octet Matrix DE7B monitors on Sanus NF30 stands. When using the analog outputs of a player I paired it with my Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2 as a pre-amp, and used a Parasound 2125 amplifier. When using the digital output I paired it with a Lead Audio LA-200 integrated DAC/amp.
   
  All cables used were Signal Cable, including Analog One and Analog Two interconnects, Digital Link coaxial and Optical Link toslink cables. Power conditioning was done by a Furman Elite 15pfi.
   

   
  All equipment was burned in for well over 100 hours prior to auditioning. I don’t think this makes much difference but I recognize that other people do.
   
   
   
*MUSIC*
  I listened to a wide range of music, from humble internet radio channels to amazing Reference Recordings HRx hi-res files, and everything in between. I’ll outline exactly what sort of capabilities each device has in terms of hi-res playback.
   
  Obviously a key source of music is your own CDs that have been ripped as FLAC files (or whatever format your choose, I prefer FLAC). You can also purchase music from various locations. I’m going to focus on quality sources that offer lossless music; there are numerous other sources out there if you just need MP3 files. The following are some good places to find high quality music. Many even have free sample downloads. Most of these let you buy and download the files, but a few (Chesky 192/24, Soundkeeper, Reference Recordings HRx) require a physical disc because the files are so large. In that case you would copy the hi-res WAV tracks to your hard drive once you get the disc in the mail.
   
  2L Records  http://www.2l.no/
  B&W Society of Sound  http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/music/society-of-sound/
  Blue Coast  http://www.bluecoastrecords.com/
  Chesky   http://www.chesky.com/
  Classical Shop http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Default.aspx
  Deutsche Grammophon    http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/
  eClassical  http://www.eclassical.com/
  Gimmell  http://www.gimell.com/
  HDtracks https://www.hdtracks.com/
  Hifitrack  http://www.hifitrack.com/en/
  iTrax  http://www.itrax.com/
  Linn  http://www.linnrecords.com/
  Naim  http://www.naimlabel.com/
  Passionato http://www.passionato.com/
  Pristine Classical  http://www.pristineclassical.com/index2.html
  Reference Recordings  http://www.referencerecordings.com/default.asp
  Soundkeeper http://www.soundkeeperrecordings.com/index.htm
  Unipheye Music  http://www.unipheyemusic.com/Results.cfm?category=6
   
   
   
   
*CAPABILITIES*
  There are a few different options to look for when shopping for a device like this. I’ll briefly explain them here. Not every device does all of these, nor will every person have a need for all of them.
   
  Network streaming: This means that you store your music on a computer or a Network Attached Storage aka NAS drive, and the device connects either through a LAN cable or WiFi. It streams the files from the computer and thus requires no local storage. Many devices accomplish this by adhering to standards like DLNA and UPnP  . A notable exception is the Logitech Squeezebox line, which relies on Logitech Media Server. In my experience, wireless streaming is easily done with standard 16-bit/44.1kHz audio. Many devices can successfully do up to 24/96 audio but it requires a fast network and sometimes a bit of luck. I’m not aware of any situation where files above 24/96 can be successfully streamed over WiFi.
   
  Direct connection: This is an option on most every device you’ll see. It will often be an SD card slot, USB port(s), or sometimes a slot for an internal hard disk to be installed. USB ports can almost always accommodate memory sticks and often support hard drives as well. Sometimes there is a limit to what sort of hard drives can be used; either a size limit, or a requirement for external power in addition to the USB connection.
   
  Internet Radio: The majority of streaming devices out there will support internet radio in some way. Many of them use a 3rd party portal like vTuner or Reciva to provide a robust list of radio channels, sorted by things like genre, location, bitrate, etc. Others use their own proprietary database which usually isn’t as good. Internet radio can range from sub-FM to very reasonable quality. Many stations are simply rebroadcasts of actual FM or even AM radio stations, sometimes complete with static. Others are dedicated internet only stations. They are usually done in MP3 format but you do see some WMA and even more rarely AAC. Bitrates can range from 32k (barely adequate for talk radio) to 320k (arguably CD quality). Some stations, such as Linn Classical and Linn Jazz, sound excellent. Others are not as good, but still listenable. The average quality seems to be 128k MP3 which can be good enough for background music in my opinion.
   
  Music Services: Many of these devices support one or more 3rd party streaming services. Pandora, Aupeo!, Last.fm, and Slacker Radio are just a few of the possibilities for streaming radio style services. Spotify, Rhapsody, and MOG are the main options for On Demand style listening. See my article over at InnerFidelity for more information about those.
   
  You’ll need to decide which features are important to you.
   
*OTHER FEATURES*
  Some devices offer some random feature that the others don’t. Some of these include AM/FM radio, a built in CD player, iPod support, an integrated amplifier for powering speakers, digital inputs for use as an outboard DAC, a built in headphone amp, ability to act as a digital picture frame by displaying photos, etc. These may be handy at times but I don’t consider them core requirements.
   
*OTHER OPTIONS*
  A list of devices that qualify based on my requirements, yet I have no experience with at the moment. When there is more than one model from the same company (Sonos for example) I won’t be listing all the options – merely the lowest priced choice. This is just a good starting point for someone to research these things. Again, feel free to point something out if I don’t have it listed.
   
  Bryston BDP 1 - $2195
  Cambridge Audio NP30 - $599
  Sonos –starting at $698 for basic unit plus remote
  Olive – starting at $599 for a basic model
  Aune mini player - $320 (eBay)
  Dugood HDAP-01D - ~$350 (eBay)
  Sooloos Control 15 - $7500
  Marantz NA7004 - $799
  Denon DNP-720AE - $499
  Cyrus Streamline - ~$3200
  Naim UnitiQute - ~$2300
  Musical Fidelity M1 CLiC - $1999
  PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC with Bridge - $3799
   
   
  There will be more of these devices being released as time passes, and I’d like to maintain this database as much as possible.


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## project86

*Grace Digital Tuner*
   

   
   
   
*BACKGROUND*
  I was familiar with Grace Digital (not to be confused with Grace Designs, maker of the m903 DAC/headphone amp among other studio oriented equipment) as a company that makes somewhat low cost internet radio devices. But one day I noticed that they sell a model called the “Tuner”. It is a full sized component that seemed to meet all the criteria I mentioned earlier, so I decided to give it a try. While not having much history with high end equipment, Grace Digital does seem to be very experienced with the network audio side of things. So I figured it would be worth a shot. It sells for $219 direct from the manufacturer, and sometimes slightly less from other vendors.
   
Here is the product page from the manufacturer.
   
   
*OTHER MODELS*
  This is the only device in their lineup which has a digital output, so the only one worth talking about here.
   
*DESIGN*
  The Tuner is a full size component that integrates well into an audio setup. It reminds me very much of the older models from Oppo Digital – their discontinued BDP-80 Blu-Ray player is very similar in appearance. The front is dominated by a monochrome LCD display, a few buttons, a rotary knob that doubles as a selection button when you push it, a ¼”  headphone jack, and an SD card slot. The rear panel has a full suite of connections: LAN port, RCA outputs, coaxial and optical digital outputs, plug for the included FM antenna, USB port, and connection point for the external “wall wart” style power supply. There is also a dedicated on/off switch on the rear to supplement the “standby” type button on front, and an adjustable WiFi antenna.
   
  Internally, the Tuner shows the reason for its humble price point. The case is largely vacant, with the PCB taking maybe ¼ of the available space. This is definitely consumer grade stuff rather than high-end audiophile equipment. The heart of the unit is a Samsung ARM-based microcontroller. An AKM AK4103 digital audio transmitter passes the signal to a Wolfson WM8711B for D/A conversion. It’s a surprisingly simple design – the Wolfson chip has an integrated line driver so it directly feeds the RCA outputs with no additional processing required. In addition, it has an integrated headphone amplifier with digital volume control. That seems to be what Grace is using to feed the headphone jack. Elegantly simple or not, this DAC is listed as having a 97dB SNR in a best case scenario (which this probably isn't), so we aren’t talking state of the art by any means. Still, without the need for a separate analog output stage, there is potential here.
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

  Wolfson and AKM
   

   
   

  Main board with Samsung CPU, Nanya and Hynix memory
   
   
*BUILD QUALITY*
  As I mentioned, the Tuner looks and feels like a mildly upscale DVD player. Only the light weight gives it away as not being a more expensive product. Even the “feet” on the bottom have a quality look and feel to them. The unit had a tendency to slide away from the user when operated by the front panel controls. But sitting on a shelf and being used via remote control, it looked significantly more upscale than I would have guessed.
   
  The remote control is very basic. It’s plastic, non-backlit, and fairly generic overall. It did an acceptable job, but I really wish it had thumbs up/thumbs down type buttons for use with Pandora and Aupeo! radio services. But I’ll discuss that later.
   

   
   

  Small wall-wart style power supply
   
   
*FEATURES*
  The Grace Tune has a surprisingly full feature set for such a low priced device. It uses the Reciva portal to access thousands of internet radio stations. It does free or premium versions of Pandora and Aupeo!, with the paid versions having no commercials and higher bitrates. It can also do Sirius/XM radio, Rhapsody, and Live365 services for a small fee. There are a bunch of other free services such as CBS, NPR, and WeatherBug, which I didn’t really use.
   
  The Tuner also supports streaming audio from a computer or NAS via UPnP. I had no trouble getting connected to my desktop system or my laptop. Buffering was very minimal and only occurred before the song started; I don’t recall any dropped connections or interruptions for buffering. Obviously this would vary based on your WiFi setup.
   
  Direct connection for playback can be made either using the front panel SD card slot or the USB port on the rear. There are a few limitations though. The SD card reader is limited to 4GB as it does not support larger SDHC cards. The USB port is limited to flash-based drives only; it can’t do portable hard drives. The rep I spoke with said that it supported drives up to 2TB, but I now realize that he probably meant 2GB… the T and the G being so close to each other on the keyboard. Since I only had 1GB and 2GB thumbdrives available to try, I can’t confirm that 4GB or larger models will work. Either way, there is a requirement for FAT32 formatting and a maximum of 2500 files. The helpful rep explained that the SD/USB slots were not really the main focus here. They were mostly added for convenience, since their research showed that iPod devices were not as ubiquitous in Europe as they are here in the USA. Apparently folks there commonly use USB drives and SD cards to carry music around so these slots were necessary. But the main focus was placed on UPnP streaming and internet sources. He did mention an updated model possibly being released next year that would handle up to a 32GB SDHC card.
   
  One issue that I ran into was with support for high resolution files. The Grace website claims “Up to 24bit / 96K sampling rate via digital outputs” so I assumed I’d be playing hi-res FLACs without issue. That turned out not to be the case. The limit for sample rates is 48kHz, which I later confirmed with the Grace rep. The files appeared to play like normal but the only sound produced was a loud intermittent static. This happened whether using the digital or the analog outputs. I’m not sure what this issue is caused by, because the Wolfson DAC is capable of handling 24/96 material and the AKM digital transmitter goes all the way to 24/192.
   
  The Tuner does have dedicated apps for iOS and Android devices. I only tried the Android version. Here are some screenshots to give you an idea of how it looks. Notice that it sometimes has a hard time with album art - in some cases it might be the fault of Windows Media Player (or possibly me, for not keeping on top of my library) rather than the Grace. 
   

   

  Here I'm using Aupeo! with the genre tuning option
   
   

  Album art didn't always look the best. That may be due to my
  using a rooted Nook Color. This art would look better on a
  smaller phone screen
   
   

  Here is me using Pandora, showing some stations I made
   
   

  Pandora album art looked great
   
   

   

   

  Some internet radio stations have their own logo, and some
  do not
   
   

  This one doesn't
   
   

  The screen can get somewhat busy when selecting files
  from a UPnP server - also notice the album art is not showing
  on every single track
   
   

  Building a playlist involves selecting the songs you want
   
   

  Missing album art, even though it had showed up in the small
  thumbnail when I chose this song
   
*SETUP*
  Getting the Tuner up and running was a surprisingly easy task. It picked up on my wireless network right away, and prompted me to enter my WPA2 key. Choosing letters and numbers was a little slow due to the way the menu works, but I was up and running soon enough. From then on I could easily access my files on both computers with no extra steps required.
   
  The Reciva portal allows you to log in from a computer and manage your radio stations and streaming services. The Tuner gives an ID number which you then link to your account. This makes it much simpler to add radio stations to “favorites” as well as getting set up with Aupeo! and Pandora.
   
*USE*
  I found operating the Tuner to be pretty straight forward most of the time. The screen was large enough and bright enough to be seen from across the room. It only really shows two lines of text at a time, so scrolling through a large list of artists of songs could sometimes be tedious. In addition, if an artist name or song title was longer than roughly 16 letters, you have to wait for it to slowly scroll across the screen in order to read the whole thing. This seems like a deliberate compromise – ease of readability was prioritized over all else. I did like how it showed the compression type and bitrate for each playing song (except FLAC – it just says “FLAC lossless”, since bitrate is irrelevant in that case).
   
  Navigation was very self explanatory. Most folks should be able to get the hang of it within the first few minutes. I found it easy to find whatever I was looking for, although again it could take a while to scroll up or down from a large list of choices. The one area that I found somewhat confusing was when selecting tracks for playback from an SD card or other source – the unit forces you to maintain a sort of running playlist, with no real option of just selecting and playing a single track. You can go in and delete the playlist, and then add more songs, but I would have liked this process to be easier. Many times I tried to play an album only to be presented with the songs I had been playing the day before.
   
  The Android app helped a little, but didn’t completely fix the problem. It did solve the issue of browsing through large lists though. It was a little sluggish at times but worked well enough overall. It did a good job of displaying my album art – assuming Windows Media Player was properly organized. Though not a requirement, the Grace app enhances usability enough to make a significant difference. Note that using the app is the only way to make use of the thumbs up/thumbs down features in Aupeo! or Pandora.
   
  Speaking of those two streaming radio services, they worked very well on the Tuner. Free accounts work right out of the box, and premium accounts were easy to configure. It handily lists the bitrate – free accounts do 128k and premium accounts are 192k (interesting sidenote: Pandora stays locked at 192k, Aupeo! is constantly adjusting from 188k to 196k or so). I did find it bothersome that Grace neglected to put thumbs up and thumbs down type buttons on the standard remote. A user is not able to take full advantage of these services unless they are able to give feedback about the songs being chosen. As it stands, the only way to do so is through a smartphone via the Grace app. For many people this omission doesn't mean a thing. But I can see someone buying this device solely to get Pandora into their listening room, and for that person it is disappointing. Grace shouldn't just assume that everyone has a smartphone (although realistically many people do).
   
  One thing I found that I did like was the speed at which the unit operated. The only delay I experienced was streaming FLAC files over the network. Even then, it only took a few seconds to get started, and I don’t recall a single experience of breakups or buffering once the song started. Pretty impressive for such a simple budget device.
   

  Choose genre
   

  Then choose sub-genre
   

   
   

  I didn't use Windows Shares much, it seemed to work the same as UPnP on my
  Windows 7 system
   

  Loading internet radio stations was fairly quick
   

  Here I'm actually playing a 24/96 track. It appears to be working fine, but the sound
  is all garbled.
   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

  Display alternates between showing bitrate/format and artist info. The top line is the 
  current track being played. 
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   
   
*SOUND QUALITY*
  Since this is HeadFi, I’ll start by discussing the quality of the headphone output first. Unfortunately I don’t have many good things to say about it. It sounded soft, flat, and generally uninspiring. Despite an overall softness, it did have somewhat of a sharp emphasis on the upper mids, which made certain headphones sound overly harsh. I didn’t care for the sound at all when using any potentially bright headphones such as Audio Technica or Grado. Darker headphones like Sennheiser HD650 and even the Kenwood K1000 sounded less objectionable, but still not great. It vaguely reminds me of the sound you would expect to hear when listening straight from the headphone jack of an iPod. That’s a valid comparison because several of the prior generation iPods used slight variations of the same Wolfson DAC. I don’t want to overstate things – this is far from the worst headphone output I’ve ever heard. But it isn’t impressive either.
   
  Next, we move to the RCA outputs. The Tuner fared a bit better here. Though still not on the level of even “entry level” audiophile gear, it was certainly listenable. The softness that I heard from the headphone jack remained, but this time the glare was absent. It made for a less objectionable performance and actually fit well considering some of the lower quality streaming sources it might be playing. But when listening to good quality material, the limitations of the budget design become clear. To put it another way – If I purchased a $160 Blu-ray player and it sounded like this, I’d be fairly pleased. If I purchased a $350 entry level model CD player from Cambridge or NAD and it sounded like this, I’d be fairly disappointed.
   
  The real fun began when I started using the Tuner as a transport, connecting an outboard DAC to one of the two SPDIF outputs. I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not a huge advocate of high end transports as a necessary requirement for good sound. I’m not saying they are all the same; I realize that there are measureable factors (jitter being the primary concern) that can cause one transport to sound better than another. I’ve experienced this myself, but perhaps not to the same extent as others claim. I do think that a bad transport can drag down a system. But once you reach a certain threshold, I don’t think the transport matters all that much. Obviously some DACs are more sensitive than others due to their jitter rejection capabilities.
   
  With that being said, the Grace Tuner made a fine transport. I played a lot of FLAC files and 320k internet radio streams (mostly the Linn stations) and I felt it did a great job getting out of the way of the music. With a DAC that has excellent jitter reduction circuitry (Anedio D1, Violectric V800) I could not tell much difference between the Tuner and a high end CD based transport from Lexicon. When I used a DAC more sensitive to jitter (Audio GD Reference 7, Hot Audio DAC Wow) I did notice a bit of difference. Somehow it made things both softer (in terms of attack and decay) and more edgy (that “digital” sound that is so often complained about). This was something that required critical listening to uncover, and it didn’t bother me during normal use. Overall I find the Tuner to be at least as good as an entry level CD player from one of the big players like NAD, Cambridge, or Marantz, when used as a transport.
   
*CONCLUSION*
  First off, it needs to be said that the quality of the headphone or analog outputs is not an issue when working with low quality streams. Playing a 128k mp3 internet radio station or even a 192k Pandora station, the limiting factor is still the lossy audio. Only when moving to higher bitrates or lossless files does the hardware start to really matter. With that in mind, I have zero reservations in recommending the Grace Tuner to people looking for an easy way to add streaming internet radio functionality to an existing system.
   
  Things get a bit trickier when considering the overall package. The Logitech Squeezebox Touch (which I’ll cover in-depth in a later review) is not much more expensive, and has numerous advantages in both sound quality and usability. But there’s a key advantage the Tuner has over the Touch: the traditional size and shape. The Touch is an oddly proportioned little device, and I’ve spoken to people who would not consider using it because it wouldn’t integrate well into their audio rack. Some of these same folks were also not fans of the touchscreen style interface. The Tuner avoids all this by looking like a standard piece of audio gear, as well as being very easy to interact with using knobs and buttons. If you are too young or too tech-savvy to comprehend why anyone would be put off by a touch screen, just think of your parents (or even your grandparents) – I suspect that they would choose hardware buttons whenever possible.
   
  On sound quality: The headphone jack is more of a convenience than a serious listening tool. The analog outputs are passable for casual use but certainly won’t win any awards. The real draw here is the digital outputs – pair this device with a decent outboard DAC and it will deliver a solid performance that is more than acceptable for an entry level device.
   
  This review might seem overly negative, but keep in mind that this is basically the cheapest model out there that satisfies my criteria for being a useful streaming device. At just over $200, you really shouldn’t expect miracles. The fact that the Tuner doesn’t sound great from the headphone or analog outs is expected; the reasonable quality digital output and (mostly) pleasing user experience is a bit of a surprise. For anyone wishing to dabble in streaming playback, this a great low cost way to start, assuming you either own a decent DAC or plan to buy one soon. You can certainly get more features and better sound, but you’ll pay accordingly.  
   
  EDIT: I just discovered out that Grace Digital will be releasing a firmware update in the next 2 weeks. This simple update will enable 24/96 playback on all Tuners. With that in mind, I have a somewhat higher opinion of this device.
   
  The more I think about it, the more I realize that the sound quality issue is mostly irrelevant. People who will care about the sound quality will likely be pairing it with an outboard DAC anyway. So they won't be using the analog outs or headphone jack. The Tuner is by far the cheapest traditional looking device to accomplish streaming playback. Even the $800 NAD C446 that I currently have in my audio rack does not do everything that the Tuner does. With expectations properly set, I think the Tuner is a great choice.
   
  As far as I know this is the most advanced and feature-packed single component ever sold by Grace Digital. It's good enough to make me keep their website in my favorites, just to see what else they might do in the future.


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## project86

*NAD C 446*
   

   
*BACKGROUND*
  NAD has been around for a long time – next year marks their 40th anniversary in the audio biz. Many an audiophile got their first taste of “proper hi-fi” through the NAD 3020 amplifier, and there have been literally dozens of highly significant models released since then. Today you can buy a wide range quality gear from NAD, from the $379 C316BEE to the $6,000 M2. And that’s just the integrated category – they also do CD and DVD players, dedicated amplifiers, and other types of gear.
   
Link to the C 446 on the NAD website.
   
   
*OTHER MODELS*
  This C 446 is a new release from NAD. The “C” stands for “Classic Series”, which means it matches aesthetically with the other C-series disc players and amps. NAD recently unveiled some higher end components from their Master Series - The M50 ($2500) is the playback device and the M52 ($2000) is the storage device. These are so new that they aren’t yet on the NAD website as a write this, and are obviously geared towards a different market than the C 446.
   
*DESIGN*
  The C 446 is a full size component that will look right at home on an audio rack. It is roughly the size and shape of a good integrated amplifier. If you already have some NAD components in your system from the Classic Series, the C 446 will be a perfect match. Even if you don’t it should still blend very well with your equipment. I’ve always appreciated the balance NAD has achieved with the C series – they look somewhat upscale yet still understated.
   
  The C 446 has a nice clean front panel that still allows control of most functions. Select your source, scroll through various stations or files, play or pause; it’s all there. The display is a VFD type similar to what you would find on a decent CD or DVD player, though is a bit taller to accommodate the extra lines of info needed here. Many devices in this category have large icon driven displays, and often show album art, but NAD sticks to a more classic styling.
   
  Out back we find plenty of connectivity options: antenna connections for AM and FM radio, analog RCA outputs, Toslink digital output, LAN port, RS232 port, NAD iPod dock port, and finally connections for a 12V trigger and IR flasher. There is also a spot to attach the included WiFi antenna. Many of these connections are things that you typically find on higher end gear, in order to integrate into a custom installation. I personally didn’t use the 12v trigger, IR input, or RS232 port, but I appreciate the fact that NAD included them. Power is connected through a standard detachable IEC cable.
   
  Internally, we find lots of spare room in the case, though not as much as we saw with the Grace model. NAD certainly could have made this into a more compact unit, but that would mean *A)* it would no longer take up a full spot in a standard audio rack/shelf, and *B)* it wouldn’t match up with any of the other Classic Series components. So I think they made the right choice. If this were a CD player, much of the empty space would be occupied by transport components, which the C 446 obviously doesn’t need. So I don’t think it is totally fair to complain about the space inside the case.
   
  There are basically three main parts to the design: power supply, main board, and radio tuner. The radio tuner is an enclosed part so I can’t see inside. It sends the signal to the main board where a TI PCM1808 ADC converts the analog data into digital.
   
  The power supply uses a somewhat small transformer as part of a more complex design, flanked by over a dozen capacitors of various sizes. NAD has long been known for their quality power supplies, and although this model doesn’t appear to be as robust as the supplies used in their power amps, it doesn’t really need to be either.
   
  The main board of the device is where we find the various bits that make the C 446 tick. The heart of the design (as far as audio reproduction is concerned) is a Cirrus Logic CS4392 DAC and twin NE5532 opamps. Neither of these are considered cutting edge at this point, yet both have been used in numerous high end designs. The CS4392 was once popular in audiophile disc players from such companies as Luxman, Myryad, and Unison. And the venerable NE5532 shows up everywhere -  from expensive CD players like the Exposure 2010S to the new Cambridge 751BD universal player, as well as the Music Fidelity M1 DAC (a Stereophile component-of-the-year runner up). I don’t mean to imply that the C 446 is on the same level as those units simply because it uses the same DAC or opamps. My point is that these inexpensive components can and are used in a variety of applications, from low end to high.
   

   

   

   

   

This is the "empty space" I mentioned - If this was a CD player, there would be a big square transport section taking up most of the leftover area
   
   

Cirrus Logic CD4392 Delta-Sigma DAC
   
   
   

AM/FM tuner
   
   
   

Power supply
   
   
   

Power supply top view
   
   
   
   
*BUILD QUALITY*
  The C 446 seems rather well built and certainly meets my expectations for an $800 component. It isn’t fancy, but tolerances are tight and finishes are well done. The gold “feet” on bottom are a nice touch, adding a bit of class to an otherwise low-key design. Despite the case appearing somewhat empty, the device weighs in at over 10 pounds, which is fairly substantial.
   
  I really enjoyed the included remote control. It felt good in my hands and seemed to be laid out well. The only complaint I had: I didn’t end up using the number keys or transport keys much, so I was a bit disappointed that they took up so much real estate. Aside from that it was about as good as it possibly could have been.
   

   
   
   

   
   
   

   
   
   
*FEATURES*
  The C 446 aims to be the heart of your system, and has enough features to support that goal. It can play AM/FM terrestrial radio. It can access thousands of internet radio stations using the vTuner content portal. It can stream audio tracks from a computer or NAS using the UPnP protocol. It can play tracks directly from a USB stick or portable hard drive through the front panel USB input. It can also access Last.fm, which requires a paid account at $3/month. Euro versions support DAB and DAB+ radio. That is a lot of options for getting content.
   
  Breaking those features down into more detail:
   
  AM/FM – A unique feature here is that the stream can be passed out in digital form through the Toslink output. This could make system setup easier, though for most folks it won’t matter.
   
  Internet radio – vTuner works quite well for organizing your favorite stations. It is much easier to do all that legwork on your computer and then access it through the C 446, rather than do it all from the device itself. I have a “favorites” menu setup, and inside I keep things organized into different genres: classical, jazz, rock, pop, world, Christmas, electronic, reggae, etc. It is easy to search for stations and add them to the proper section. Since vTuner allows filtering by bitrate (they label it “fastest speed”) I was able to quickly find high quality 320k mp3 stations for most genres, which sound pretty darn good.
   
  UPnP playback – The C 446 can play FLAC, MP3, WAV, AAC, and WMA files, up to 24-bit/48kHz. That limitation means it doesn’t handle what we usually consider “Hi-Resolution” tracks, though one could argue that tracks such as the Bowers & Wilkins Society of Sound releases at 24/48 qualify as Hi-Res. They certainly sound good enough. Still, this limitation means that some care is required when organizing or selecting files for playback. When I accidentally select the 24/96 version of “Paper Airplane” by Alison Krauss & Union Station, the C 446 gets stuck on “Buffering” and never finishes.
   
  USB playback – I tried a few flash memory drives, as well as a 500GB Seagate portable hard drive, and had (mostly) good luck with all of them. I did run into an issue though: when I power down the C 446 with a USB stick or hard drive plugged in, it sometimes fails to recognize the drive when I later power back on. A quick unplug-then-plug-back-in maneuver rectifies this situation. NAD likes to use the term “USB memory stick” when talking about the USB port, as if to discourage use of an actual spinning-platter hard drive. My first try was to add a dozen test albums to the Seagate drive, and it all worked out perfectly. That drive has since been paired with a different streaming player and loaded full of hi-resolution files. I later tried plugging it back in to the C 446 and it recognized the drive by saying “Attached”, but went no further. This is probably caused by some issue with the amount of files or possibly even the sizes of the files - some of the Reference Recordings HRx 24-bit/176.4kHz tracks are simply massive. But I don’t have the time or energy to erase the drive and try it again. Portable USB hard drive support is almost always a bit touchy in my experience, so I really can’t predict if your particular drive will work or not.
   
  The manual gives some limitations to watch out for: FAT32 format, maximum of 65,408 total files in a maximum of 128 folders. As long as you work within those parameters most drives should theoretically work. Some drives may require an external power source (like a powered hub) but mine didn’t. Surprisingly I found that I didn’t use USB as much as I had anticipated. UPnP worked well enough so I usually stuck with that. Your needs may differ.
   
  Last.fm – The literature on the NAD website says the C 446 features “ …support for cloud music services such as Last.fm”. That implies that Last.fm is only one example of several. But in reality it is the sole choice. It also requires a $3/month premium account in order to work with the NAD (Last.fm free accounts work with computers only). I hope that NAD has plans for adding more services in the near future. MOG or Spotify might be a challenge due to their more complex user interfaces, but Pandora and Aupeo! would be a perfect fit here. Both offer free services so C 446 users could get up and running without spending extra money initially. The remote already has buttons for Like/Dislike so it should be a perfect match.
   
  Interestingly, NAD chose not to design a specific App for Android or iOS users to control the C 446. Instead, users can choose from any one of a large number of existing UPnP remote Apps. I’m personally using Skifka on my Android Tablet and iMediaControl on my iPad. Both are free and both do a reasonably good job of handling basic remote functions. Other options include Smartstor Fusion Stream for iOS (free) and PlugPlayer for Android or iOS (not free). I do wish that NAD had offered some suggestions for what programs they like. I suspect the target market for C 446 includes folks who aren’t extremely computer savvy, and some tips on which options to try might have been appreciated.
   
   
*SETUP*
  The C 446 was quick and easy. After plugging it in and telling it to use my network, I was prompted for a password, and was up and running from there. I used www.vTuner.NADelectronics.com to start a vTuner account and register my unit. Since I already had UPnP running well with my Windows 7 based PC, I was all ready to go.
   
   
   
*USE*
  The C 446 was easy to get the hang of. Using the left and right Source buttons on the remote or the front panel, one can quickly cycle through the various functions. The screen was well laid out and generally bright enough, though sometimes difficult to read from across the room. This is not due to any deficiency in clarity or brightness but simply the font size. I see no way to avoid this while still presenting a similar level of information, and as it stands it is certainly no worse than most disc-based players.
   
  The top line of the display always tells what source you are listening to. The next level down gives you specific information about the song: each push of the “info” button switches this line to show something else – song title, artist, album, then compression type and bitrate. There are variations based on what source you are using but it is generally similar. The bottom level shows status such as “playing” or “paused”, along with elapsed time. I tried to capture the display in action as that will probably give you a better idea than my attempted explanation.
   
  Moving through files or radio stations is fairly easy. The remote control has a nice 4-way rocker plus an “enter” button in the middle, and that’s what gets used 90% of the time. You can list music by the usual criteria such as artist, genre, album, etc. As with any device of this nature, the results depend on how well your library is tagged. My one complaint here was that scrolling through a long list could take a while. There is a search option but it is inconveniently located at the end of the file list – by the time you scrolled down to it, you would have already passed whatever you were looking for. It would make way more sense to place it on top instead.
   
  This issue was solved through the use of an iOS or Android device as a remote. Scrolling through your list on a big touchscreen device is by far the easiest way to deal with a large music library. The addition of album art is a small benefit as well, but it is mainly the navigation that I’m concerned about. If you have a smaller library (or just more patience than I do) the standard remote is perfectly fine, but for huge collections a smartphone really upgrades the experience.
   
  In terms of speed, the C 446 was pretty impressive. Boot up takes a little longer than I’d like, but once it was up and running things moved along quite well. Selecting my large library from a networked computer caused just a short delay, and it would probably be shorter if I had a faster network. Playing songs from USB was near instantaneous, and UPnP playback was quick too. Internet radio stations took a second or two to load, occasionally longer when they are very far away. I never ran into any buffering issues, and had no interruptions once playback had begun. I did occasionally get errors when selecting internet radio stations: A message saying “Media Invalid” would display and the unit would just sit. I found that the solution was to simply back out to the prior menu, then reselect the same station, and it would always work fine the second time around. A minor annoyance at worst.
   
  Last.fm is not my favorite choice as far as music services go, and as I’ve mentioned it is the only music service available on the C 446 at the moment. For one thing, the bitrate tops out at 128k. That’s not any better than the average internet radio station, and actually worse in many cases. I’ve used it before but don’t currently have a premium account. I tried a free account just to confirm that it won’t work with the C 446. Consider it confirmed. I’m hopeful that at least Pandora will be added as an option, but I have no specific information about whether or not that is in the works.
   
  Some screenshots of the unit in action. These were difficult to capture due to lighting. Where there is any blur or apparent artifacting, it is because the display was changing at that moment. 
   

Boot screen
   
   

Opening menu
   
   

Favorites folder
   
   

  [size=xx-small]This is how the screen first displays when a station is selected[/size]
   
   

Hitting the "Info" button shows the genre
   
   

  [size=xx-small]Push it again for a description[/size]
   
   

Push it again for bitrate and compression format
   
   

Push it again for song information
   
   

Using a USB drive filled with music
   
   

Starting at the top of the list of artists
   
   

Then scroll all the way down to the bottom
   
   

Eventually there is a seach function - which would be more easily accessed if it was on top of the menu
   
   

Last.FM requires a premium account - I tried a free one and got this result
   
   

Leaving a USB drive inserted would sometimes give me this error
   
   

Remove the drive, plug it back in, and things are fixed
   
   

  [size=xx-small]Internet radio sounds pretty respectable at 192k [/size]
   
   

This error popped up once in a while but was an easy fix
   
   

Here I try to load a 24/96 track from the Head-Fi/Chesky album "Open Your Ears" 
   
   

But all I get is this screen
   
   

  [size=xx-small]Standard 16/44.1 or 16/48 FLAC playback works great though[/size]
   
   
*SOUND QUALITY*
  The NAD C 446 has been a roller coaster ride for me in terms of sound quality. When I first plugged it in and used the RCA outputs with my speaker setup, I was blown away by the superb analog-like sound I heard. It had warmth, drive, and a wonderfully smooth top end that seemed perfectly suited for a device like this. Even though I was primarily listening to lossless files at the time, I knew that at least some of my future use would involve lesser quality material – I figured this was the perfect voicing to give the unit.
   
  Things changed a bit when I started comparing the C 446 analog outputs with some of my nicer DACs. In direct A/B comparisons, I noticed that the top end on the NAD wasn’t just smooth – it was actually missing some details altogether. The unit still sounded warm and inviting but the glossed over detail was a deal breaker for a while.
   
  Eventually I think I got acclimated enough to the sound signature, and swung almost all the way back to my original position. This was just a good sounding unit with its own character, and unless I compared it to a $1k+ stand alone DAC it held up pretty well. It wasn't a detail monster but did an admirable job of balancing strengths and weaknesses
   
  Bass reproduction was clearly one of the strong points of this design. From punishing dubstep to slap bass funk to the amazing Gary Karr on double bass, the C 446 handled it all in a very fun yet convincing manner. It can’t quite match the depth or dynamics of the best DACs and players I’ve heard, but the NAD unit is still very pleasing on its own.
   
  Mids sounded well defined, if a little on the rich and warm side of neutral. Once again this seems like an optimal choice given the variety of material that will likely be played. Instruments and voices sounded realistic enough and I felt that the balance of technicality and emotion was just right. During really complex passages I noticed that there was a very slight blurring taking place, making it more challenging to focus on individual instrument placement (compared to my reference units). But on the whole this is a minor complaint.
   
  Highs were a bit of a stumbling block for me. As I mentioned prior, it took me a while to figure out what to make of the C 446 sound signature, and the highs were chiefly to blame. My conclusion is that with the right expectations, the C 446 has a pleasantly forgiving tone, which will satisfy many but certainly not all potential customers. Everything is still there – cymbals, triangles, and various other percussion instruments are clearly rendered if not quite perfectly lifelike. If you are the type who demands crisp, hyper-detailed sound with sparkling highs, the C 446 (when used by itself) is probably not the best source for you. If you are willing to live with a smooth, flattering sound where poor recordings benefit, occasionally at the expense of hindering excellent recordings, the C 446 sounds pretty good overall.
   
  Pairing the C 446 with an external DAC worked out nicely. The sole digital output is a Toslink optical connection – I would have liked to see a coaxial digital connection as well, but it isn’t that big of a deal. The main benefit I see with coaxial is the ability to work with 192kHz sample rates, where optical generally tops out at 96kHz (in practice if not in theory). Since the C 446 is capped at 48kHz this limitation doesn’t come into play. Still, if only for the sake of convenience, a coaxial output would have been nice. In terms of sound quality I didn’t find the C 446 to be a significant factor – which means it makes for a high quality transport.
   
*COMPARISON*
  To help gauge how the unit would stack up against similarly priced competition of the disc-spinner variety, I compared it directly against a few other players. The C 446 seemed easily more capable than the somewhat entry level Denon DCM-390 and Marantz CD6002 players. The Marantz was superior to the Denon but neither could match the dynamics or resolution of the NAD. Stepping up to a Cambridge Audio Azur 650C ($750 when new), the C 446 was different but roughly equal. The Cambridge had a more detailed sound that also seemed more open and spacious. It was less congested during complex passages, and had more pinpoint imaging. In contrast, the NAD seemed smoother, warmer, more rhythmic, less clinical, and overall more inviting for long term listening. I could see either one being declared superior based on listener preference, but I personally think they are more or less on the same level. My choice would depend on what gear I would be pairing it with, and what music would be played.
   
  I didn’t do direct comparisons with more expensive units, but I don’t think the C 446 would compete with some of the better ~$1k units such as the Rega Apollo. Obviously high quality speakers or headphones and proper amplification would be required to discern the differences.
   
*CONCLUSION*
  The NAD C 446 is a really enjoyable unit. Expectations run somewhat high at $799 and in my mind the unit really delivers, doing an outstanding job of balancing its wide array of features. It looks suitably high end and is sonically competitive with traditional disc players in this price category. As NADs maiden voyage into the realm of streaming audio I’d say they have done well for themselves.
   
  The trick here is going in with the proper expectations: knowing what the C 446 can and can’t do is really key to determining if it will be a good fit for your system. Those seeking a fancy color display complete with album art should obviously look elsewhere.  Folks who judge gear by the complexity and prestige of their individual parts will not find enough bragging rights here. But go in with an open mind and a willingness to judge based on results rather than chip specs, and you are likely to be impressed.
   
  Clearly the 24-bit/48kHz limit will turn off some users. And I do think the issue is a valid criticism. But as I listen to Cara Dillon, or Samuel Yirga, or Radiohead, or Ola Onabule, or Tom Petty, or The Unthanks, or others in 24-bit/48kHz FLAC from B&W, Pristine Classical, and other sources, I can’t help but think that I AM in fact hearing what I consider Hi-Res audio. But I agree that it would be convenient to play the rest of my collection and not have to worry about sample rate issues. Especially since many of my other streaming audio players do allow that. At the very least I think NAD should add an error message so users know when they have selected an improper file with too  high of a sample rate. The current "buffering" message gives a false hope that the track is going to play, which is not the case.
   
  Further criticism? The lack of Pandora or other streaming services, the single digital output, the failure to provide recommendations for remote control software. None of these are deal breakers in my eyes, and two of them are easy enough to fix if NAD wants to – making the C 446 go from “really good” to “exceptional” with a single firmware update.
   
  I see the ideal customer for the C 446 as someone who already has a fairly nice system. They are heavily invested in their current components but want to add a new level of versatility. The C 446 analog output would be fed into their high quality pre-amp, and the unit would fit on their audio stand just like the other components. This customer has no interest in a touch screen interface. They may eventually use iOS or Android for control but will get by just fine initially with the standard remote. The C 446 is a good combination of functionality and simplicity, so even the most hardened Luddite should be able to figure it out.
   
  Like every streaming audio player I’ve experienced so far, the NAD C 446 is not perfect, and it won’t be ideal for everyone. But it you find yourself in its target market I highly recommend looking into it. Being from an established firm like NAD has benefits too – you are much more likely to find this model at your local dealer. Play with it, listen to it, maybe even arrange an in-home trial. You might be glad you did.
   
  I’d like to extend a big “Thank You” to Peter Hoagland of Lenbrook, parent company of NAD and PSB Speakers, for loaning me this review sample. Your generosity to the HeadFi community is much appreciated. I’ll be sending the unit back soon and I already miss it.


----------



## project86

*TEAC WAP-8600*
   
   

   
   
  I’d like to thank Teac for loaning me this review unit. I can’t find a local seller that carries this model, but the price on Amazon.de is roughly €400, which currently translates to around $500 USD.
   
*BACKGROUND*
  Younger readers might not know this, but Teac has some serious audio pedigree. Founded in Tokyo circa 1953, the company became well known in the 1960s for their expertise in audio tapes (reel-to-reel and later cassettes). For the next 40+ years Teac continued to have a big impact on the audio world – they started the Tascam pro-audio division, which basically created the entire concept of the “home studio”. They also launched Esoteric Audio, which for over 20 years has been on the cutting edge of high-end audio. I don’t blame people for thinking of them as primarily a company that made floppy disk drives, but there is actually quite a rich history there if you only look.
   
*OTHER MODELS*
  Teac doesn’t seem to market heavily in the USA for their “Teac” branded audio gear. Esoteric of course gets plenty of exposure in the audiophile press, and Tascam is still a big player, but the rest of it is practically non-existent. The website for the consumer electronics branch shows a collection of CD players in a wide variety of styles and focus. There certainly doesn’t appear to be a guiding principal of design theme for much of it, and it can be hard to tell how one model compares to the rest.
   
  An exception is with the Teac Reference line. We see a definite family resemblance between them, with a clear split in personality between the solid black models of the past year or so and the latest silver offerings. The older black models had received favorable reviews in The Absolute Sound as well as at 6Moons.com, so maybe Teac is showing renewed interest in expanding their audio division presence in the USA.
   
  As far as streaming playback goes, you won’t find much on the USA website. Head over to the European site and you’ll find half a dozen choices, including the WAP-8600 which I’m reviewing here. This seems to be the top of the WAP line, with the others being variations of the same thing but with less features. There are other models that look interesting, such as the portable WAP-R8900 with built in speaker, or the WAP-AX100 and siblings which have built in ICEpower amplification. None of those meet the specific requirements that I’ve set as my focus for this particular series of reviews. There’s also the slick looking Reference 01 series which, though not qualifying for this specific article, looks very intriguing for HeadFi purposes in general. Further investigation may follow.
   
*DESIGN*
  The WAP-8600 has two main components – the receiver unit and the control unit. The receiver appears to be similar across the WAP line, with other models having different remotes or lacking wireless connectivity. Teac also sells additional receivers which can be used as part of a multi-room system, all running from the same controller.
   
  The receiver could easily be confused with a standard wireless router: it’s a small black box with a Wi-Fi antenna and an array of cryptic blinking lights. Closer inspection reveals the differences though – a 1/8th inch headphone jack, Toslink digital output, RCA analog output, and several USB ports.
   
  The controller consists of a charging base and the actual remote itself. The base holds the remote in such a way that it is tilted for easy viewing. The remote itself is based around a 3.5 inch touchscreen display with just a few hardware buttons on top.
   
  I tried to open the receiver unit to get a peek at the innards. It should have been as easy as removing 4 screws on the bottom panel and taking the device apart. Unfortunately one of the screws has a special star pattern instead of a normal Philips head, no doubt to deter curious people like myself from messing around with the guts. This temporary setback would have been easily overcome if not for the fact that I have the unit on loan from Teac… so I don’t want to risk damaging it. For that reason, I don’t have specifics about the internal layout or specific parts used. With 3 of the 4 screws removed, I was able to move the cover just enough to make an opening and peek inside. While the outside of this unit might scream “router”, the inside looks decidedly “soundcard”. I see a bunch of purplish capacitors sprinkled liberally throughout, but I can’t read the brand. I also can’t tell what chips are used for the DAC or opamps. The manual lists signal-to-noise ratio as 95dB, which is something you might find on an entry-level CD player (the $349 Cambridge Topaz CD10 is listed as having the same SNR, though to be fair some of the Denon and NAD models are considerably higher). It’s a far cry from the 120+ range found in my reference equipment. Still, one vague number is not much to go by.
   

   

   

   
   
*BUILD QUALITY*
  The receiver portion of the 8600 is simple plastic that isn’t much to look at. As I said, it’s just like a router, complete with wall-wart power. The good part is that it is small enough to fit in the places where routers often go – on top of a bookshelf, under a desk, behind a stack of other gear. The only reason you might need access to it is for inserting a USB drive or using it with headphones.
   
  The controller, powered by an identical wall-wart PSU, looks a bit more upscale than the receiver. Notice I used the word “looks”. Where the remote appears to have metal trim, it is really just painted plastic. The rest of it is a sort of textured plastic that has a bit of a non-slip coating. It works well enough but still feels somewhat cheap. The rear battery cover on my unit seems especially flimsy. On the plus side, the remote unit slides into the charging base very nicely (unlike my old Logitech Harmony 880 remote which I’m still upset about). I like how the charger positions the screen at a laid back angle so you can use it without needing to take it out.
   
  One negative thing that I can’t avoid mentioning: the controller uses a resistive touchscreen rather than capacitive. In case you are too young to remember resistive touchscreen technology – it was commonly used in early smartphones from HTC and others. Unlike capacitive screens which react to the human finger, resistive technology is based on pressure. Combined with the somewhat small size of the screen (it feels smaller than 3.5” to me, possibly due to being somewhat recessed into the panel), and it makes navigation difficult at times. Picking a main function is easy enough but choosing the name of an artist from a list required fingernail action. Eventually I started using a stylus from my old Samsung Epix smartphone - I did much better with the stylus. Resistive screens were not always bad, but in this case I do feel that it is a compromise.
   
  I don’t know the resolution of the screen but I’m guessing it is not very high – I’m guessing it is 320x240. It does not look as clear as my similarly sized LG Optimus screen, nor the larger Squeezebox Touch. There appears to be some dithering as well, like it can’t reproduce the full spectrum of colors. It looks decent enough from arms length, and it isn’t bad enough to render it unusable… but it won’t win any beauty contests. I also notice what appears to be a dynamic adjustment of contrast: the screen gets slightly darker or lighter, ostensibly based on lighting conditions in the room. The problem is that this happens seemingly at random. It isn’t as bad as it sounds, and the difference between light and dark is not all that noticeable. But I don’t have a good explanation as to why it happens.
   
   
*FEATURES*
  The 8600 has all the basic functionality one would expect from a streaming audio player. It uses the vTuner portal for internet radio, it features Aupeo! streaming, it can access content via a UPnP connection to a computer or NAS, and it can play local content through one of the two USB ports. It has built in Wi-Fi as well as an Ethernet port for a hard-wired connection. A 1/8th inch headphone jack rounds out the connectivity options. It’s a pretty robust feature set overall, with all areas represented to some degree.
   
  The 8600 handles a good assortment of formats: AAC, OGG, MP3, WMA, WAV, and FLAC. It will accept FLAC files up to 24/96 resolution, but they get converted down to 16/48 prior to playback. This applies to both analog and digital outputs. While full resolution playback would be ideal, I do appreciate the fact that I don’t have to tiptoe around my collection, as was the case with the NAD C 446. On the plus side, gapless playback is supported.
   
  The 8600 is unique among the streamers in this roundup, in that the main unit does not have a display or any buttons – that is all handled by the remote unit. Users do have the option of using Teac’s myWAP app for iOS instead of the included remote. No specific app is available for Android, though any UPnP/DLNA control app will do the trick. I’ll show some pictures of the myWAP app in action – it’s a fairly straight forward program, adequate and useful but not amazing.
   
  The controller is based around the touchscreen but it does have some physical buttons on top – a power button and dual buttons for volume up and down. Volume adjustment is handled in the digital domain, and affects the analog and headphone outputs but not Toslink.
   
  This unit has another fairly unique feature in the ability to record internet radio stations. It won’t work with Aupeo! but any standard internet radio is fine. I didn’t use this function but I could see it coming in handy for fans of talk radio.
   
   
*SETUP*
  Getting the 8600 to work in my system was fairly straight forward. Through the controller, I simply entered my passkey for the network, and I was all set. I do wish it used a QWERTY keyboard layout instead of alphabetical.
   
  Insert a USB drive and the 8600 will automatically scan for files. It takes a while but only has to be done once. The 8600 worked perfectly with my 500GB portable hard drive without an external power connection.
   
  One curious aspect was how to configure vTuner and Aupeo! with customized accounts. Both will work straight from the box in generic form; vTuner will allow you to browse by categories such as genre or location, and Aupeo! will give you 128k steaming quality. But I couldn’t figure out how to register either of them to get a more personal experience. The manual was no help either. Eventually I discovered that the myWAP application allowed me to enter a name and password for Aupeo!, which didn’t seem possible from the standard controller. I’m still working on getting registered with vTuner so I can build a list of favorite stations. This seems like it could have been implemented better.
   
*USE*
  The 8600 is very easy to use. Upon startup you are presented with a main screen asking what function you’d like to play: USB, Internet Radio, or Audio Server. Choosing one of those will lead you to further options which apply to that function. This is best illustrated by pictures.
   
  The “now playing” screen looks very similar no matter what source is being played. I like the fact that it always displays the bit rate and sample rate, though I do miss seeing the compression format. You get album title, track title, and artist information when playing your own music or Aupeo! stations. Internet radio isn’t as informative, though it varies from station to station.
   
  The now playing screen does show album art, though I had some difficulty getting it to display consistently. I’m guessing there is some maximum resolution corresponding to the low-res of the display itself. This wouldn’t be a huge deal if the spot remained blank or had some reasonable logo indicating that no album art is available (like the way it is done on the Squeezebox Touch). The problem is that Teac uses a terrible stock photo whenever the album art won’t work – which is quite often. To make matters even worse – after a short period of inactivity, the player switches to a different screen, with larger album art and less details. This is great for a real album cover, but terrible for the stock photo. Scroll down to my pictures to see just how bad this looks. Thankfully most internet radio stations have their own art, as does Aupeo!.
   
  The unit was reasonably quick during normal use – navigating through folders, skipping ahead to a new track, loading a new radio station, all was fairly smooth. Volume adjustments had a few seconds of lag, to the point where I wasn’t sure if my button push had registered. But this _is_ one of the only units to have remote volume adjustment, so I shouldn’t complain.
   
  The myWAP app was a nice upgrade over the stock remote – not so much for the features, but rather for the fact that it is being used on an iDevice with a better screen. I use an iPad for it and find it much easier to navigate through artists or stations. I’ve also used other programs such as the free iMediaControl, and they all recognized and controlled the 8600 without issue.
   

  Main page
   
   

  Selecting USB
   
   

  Initial file scan
   
   

  Navigating the drive
   
   

  Tagging is key with large collections, as with any device
   
   

  This is the stock photo they use when album art won't display....
   
   

  I expected the lovely Marta Gomez and got this guy instead
   
   

  This is what it looks like when album art works
   
   

  Larger view of proper album art
   
   

  Internet radio portal
   
   

  The usual vTuner options 
   
   

  Finding a station
   
   

  Playing a station
   
   

  Aupeo! station
   
   

  Notice the "love/hate" buttons for rating this song
   
   
   
*SOUND QUALITY*
  I mentioned before that the 8600 shares a similar appearance (internally) with a good quality soundcard. Continuing that trend, it also has a light green 1/8th inch headphone jack, similar to many soundcards. I don’t know anything about the internal design but it’s a safe bet to assume we are dealing with opamps and perhaps an integrated headphone driver chip.
   
  Keeping that in mind, the 8600 actually sounds pretty decent. It reminds me a lot of the Squeezebox Touch, which I also found surprisingly good through the headphone and analog outputs. There is plenty of room for improvement but it could also be much worse.
   
  Starting with the headphone out: there isn’t a ton of power here. You can forget about driving an HE-6 or even an LCD-2 with any amount of authority. But you knew that already. For somewhat modest loads such as Grado, Audio Technica, Ultrasone, and most IEMs, the Teac sounds pretty darn good. It has a nice even tone, not too warm and not too cold, with a reasonable transparency that allows details to shine through. It isn’t the most refined amp in the world – Grados and Audio Technicas could sound a bit shouty or harsh (as they tend to do) on certain material, and busy passages sometimes came across as congested. It also didn’t sound great with 300 ohm Sennheisers, lacking the proper drive to control their low frequency response. Still, considering my expectations when I saw the green mini-jack, I’m fairly impressed. It actually sounded quite good with the majority of my custom IEMs, easily on the level of a good soundcard from Asus or Creative.
   
  The analog outputs are of similar quality, but obviously don’t have the same issues with drive power. They are fairly clear and neutral, with a moderate amount of detail and a good overall balance. Once again I’m reminded of the Squeezebox Touch. Neither will blow you away in terms of absolute sound, but both may surprise you compared to what you would expect from such a small box. This device would fit right in with such gear as the Matrix M-Stage and AKG K701. The term “mid-fi” comes to mind, and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way at all. The sound is noticeably better than the Grace Tuner, roughly on par with the Squeezebox Touch, but not on the same level as the NAD C 446. If I had to choose between them, I think the Squeezebox is ever-so-slightly better than the Teac, but the differences are negligible.
   
  The 8600 has an optical output, so it can be upgraded with an external DAC. When I tried some low priced options like the Hot Audio DAC Wow, I got just a modest improvement over the analog outputs. When I moved up to a nicer DAC such as the Yulong D100, I noticed a larger improvement. This means that the 8600 won’t automatically be the weakest link in a system until it gets built up to a higher level. Once there, a user could add a nice DAC and be all set.
   
  I did notice that the 8600 sounding better in situations where the DAC has good jitter reduction capabilities. A good test of this is the Matrix Cube DAC with defeatable asynchronous sample rate conversion. The ASRC process helps reduce jitter significantly and it did sound much better when activated. Turning it off resulted in relatively blurred transients, a collapsed soundstage, and less overall realism. If I use a high end, low jitter CD transport like my Marantz SA-1, the ASRC switch is basically imperceptible. What that tells me is that the 8600 has somewhat high jitter on the digital output. Most decent DACs these days have at least some type of jitter reduction capabilities so this is less problematic than it would have been in the past. I’ve noticed similar results with lots of CD transports, even some from “big name” audio companies. Considering the price and target market of this unit, I don’t think it will likely be used in a high end system where this will be a major drawback. 
   
  I was curious about the mandatory downconversion process when playing hi-res material. Listening to 24-bit/96kHz tracks and having them drop down to 16/48, then switching to the overall similar sounding Squeezebox Touch (which handles 24/96 tracks sans reduction), I did seem to perceive a small decrease in quality. But it was far from being drastic, and I may not have even noticed if I didn’t know what to listen for. I suspect that the resolving capabilities of the 8600 are just not high enough to make this a big issue. In any case, I’ll gladly take handicapped hi-res playback over none at all.  
   
*CONCLUSION*
  The Teac WAP-8600 is an interesting device. It looks like a wireless router on the outside and a soundcard on the inside, which is basically how it performs (and I mean that in the best possible way). The sound is good enough to use in most real-world systems, and it offers a nice mix of features for the price. In many respects is a viable alternative to the Squeezebox Touch - for someone who prefers UPnP over Squeezeserver, or just wants a stealthy component that they can hide away rather than displaying on their shelf, the Teac might be a better fit.
   
  My biggest issue is with the controller unit – it looks like a remnant of the last decade, with its low resolution and resistive touch panel. It is not totally unusable, and it does get the job done, but it isn’t pretty or fun to use. The myWAP application for iPhone/iPad is a good alternative, but not everyone wants to use their iDevice as a remote. Other software can be used for Android or iOS and that works quite well, but the point remains – these are all ways to get around the flawed stock controller. If your tendency is to select an album and play it through then it won’t be so bad. But if you are more the “hands on” type then it is likely to frustrate.
   
  Why would a high-tech company like Teac use such an outdated design? Searching for an explanation, I did a little more research. The WAP-8600 is an upgrade of the older WAP-8500. That model used the same controller unit and was released in 2008 or possibly 2007. If you figure it took a little time for Teac to design and release it, then it seems likely that the controller unit was created 5-7 years ago - in a time where resistive touch panel devices were much more common. That helps explain it but doesn’t necessarily excuse the fact that it is still in use.
   
  Aside from that, the WAP-8600 is a quality device. I would recommend it, with reservations, if the price was right. But since it sells for roughly double the price of the Squeezebox Touch, I’m not sure exactly who Teac is marketing this to.
   
  Or maybe it is just at the end of its life cycle – Teac has a new streaming box, the MP-H01, due out shortly. It does away with the controller aspect, instead relying purely on Android or iOS devices as remote. It features Airplay and DLNA compatibility. It looks very attractive externally, and all signs point to it being far superior to the WAP-8600. I’ve seen various prices translating to roughly $300-350 which seems very reasonable to me. If someone is interested in a streaming device and likes the idea of buying Teac, I’d suggest waiting for the new MP-H01 to become available.


----------



## project86

JF Digital HDM-03S
   



   
   
   
  I’ve been using this device as my main source in my primary headphone rig for months. I’ve had the picture posted and a space reserved for review, yet I just haven’t had the time to get to it. Part of the problem is that I’ve been waiting until I had time to fully explore the network features, as well as mess with firmware updates. But with a newborn baby in the house and plenty of reviews on deck I feel like I just need to finish what I started. This will be my attempt at a more streamlined review.
   
  So what exactly is the JF Digital HDM-03S? First off, the JF stands for Jing Feng, with the full name of the company being Shenzhen Jing Feng Digital Technology Co. As far as I can tell they do OEM work for others as well as design their own line of music servers. There is a full line of models ranging from the HDM-01D which is purely a transport only with no analog outputs, to the top of the line HDM-03 which has a host of features. The HDM-03S is sort of a budget version of the HDM-03 – it has most of the same features in a smaller form factor, and omits the output transformers and balanced XLR outputs. Aside from that it uses the same hardware and is really the bang for the buck model in the lineup. I chose it because while I appreciate a good analog section I knew I would mostly be pairing the unit with a higher end DAC. So the full HDM-03 was not necessary.
   
  The device is basically a purpose built computer running a custom Linux install. It has no onboard storage but can act as USB Host for a hard drive through a pair of rear panel USB inputs. It can also pull audio over a network, either wired through Ethernet or WiFi (which requires a separate adapter). There are quite a few ways to use the thing – aside from playing FLAC or WAV files up to 24-bit/192kHz, it can also function as a stand-alone DAC via a pair of digital inputs. I use it as a transport with an external DAC by utilizing the coaxial SPDIF output, but it also has extremely capable RCA outputs and even a nice headphone out. Once connected to a network it can stream audio from a UPnP server as well as internet radio through its built in database. It can also stream directly from Foobar2000 over Ethernet. It can even record audio in 24/96 from the digital inputs and save the result as a WAV file. This really is a remarkably versatile device.
   

  Click any picture to expand
   
  The HDM-03S sells on TaoBao (a China based site similar to eBay) for 6200 Yuan which equates to about $1000 USD. I had a friend make the purchase for me and he was able to successfully communicate my request for the proper voltage, which is not user adjustable and must be set at the factory. I don’t know how often they sell to US customers as I’ve never heard of anyone else using one of these. The closest option I’ve seen for US buyers is from fellow Chinese hifi company Opera Consonance. They sell a unit similar to the HDM-01, called the D-Linear 7, through Grant Fidelity. I believe JF Digital provided the processing and enclosure, while Consonance handled the audio side of things. The interior looks more simplistic but it may still sound great. That device goes for $1250. It’s a bit more expensive than the JF models but it does come with a warranty and after sales support, and I believe they throw in a wireless USB adaptor as well. Consonance just released another model called the Reference 7. I can tell it is based on the same JF Digital platform but is probably reworked on the inside since it has a balanced tube output stage. Pricing will be somewhere north of $2500. 
   
*DESIGN*
  Externally the device measures 12 inches wide, 14 inches deep, and about 4 inches tall. Weight is roughly 16 pounds. It looks like a slightly scaled down version of an Audio GD Reference 7 DAC since it shares a similar construction including the rounded corners. It’s heavy and seems built like a tank, ready to stand up to abuse. I notice design theme similarities with Classe gear, and I believe the new Ayon S3 streaming audio device uses a nearly identical enclosure. I speculate that Ayon is sourcing the same manufacturer for their enclosure as JF Digital and Audio GD because the similarities are just too close. 
   

   

   
  The front panel is dominated by the 5 inch touch screen display. This is the main interface used to interact with the device. It uses a resistive panel rather than capacitive, which generally doesn’t hold it back much since all it requires is simple button pressing. Basic functions are accomplished by touch but for certain things the included remote control is required. A power button is the only physical button on the entire device.
   
  The rear panel features RCA outs, coaxial digital out, coaxial and toslink digital in, Ethernet in, two USB ports, and an IEC power cable receptacle.
   
  Internally, the design is very ambitious. Processing is handled by a 32-bit dual core 600MHz CPU with a dedicated DSP chip and 2GB of RAM. Because it is a dedicated audio device running a custom operating system instead of a multi-purpose PC or Mac, those specs are more than plenty. A fairly large portion of real estate is dedicated to the power supply section. It’s a linear design utilizing dual shielded toroidal transformers; one for digital with multi-stage post regulation, and the other for analog with a class A high speed active parallel servo design. A Wolfson WM8805 digital receiver handles signals from the digital inputs while the internal playback is sent straight to the DAC section in I2S form. The D/A conversion is handled by a pair of Wolfson WM8741 chips in dual mono configuration. From there the signal is sent out to the output stage built around quad OPA627 opamps and dual AD797 opamps. The DAC chips are supported by a custom made 1ppm precision system clock. Elna and Nover capacitors are used throughout. The headphone stage pulls the signal from the output stage and utilizes a TI TPA6120A2 for amplification. Volume control is accomplished in the digital domain and applies to both the RCA out and the headphone section. As with many designs using the Wolfson WM874x chips, the user has access to 5 digital filter settings, as well as a digital de-emphasis which can be turned on or off. That means plenty of ways to tweak the sound to your liking.
   

   
   

   

   

   

   

  Power supply is robust
   

  Headphone stage
   

  From right to left: WM8805, dual WM8741, quad OPA627, 
  dual AD797, TPA6120A2
   

  Main processing section, complete with mystery chips
  that have their markings removed
   
*USE*
  The HDM-03S can play nearly any type of file you can think of. FLAC, WAV, AAC, MP3, WMA, ALAC, APE, and probably more that I can’t think of. The front panel says it handles 24/192 streams but I’ve successfully played  up to 24-bit/352.8kHz tracks as well. I assume there is some internal downsampling involved there since the Wolfson WM8741 chips top out at 192kHz. But it’s nice to know that whatever file I may throw at it, the HDM-03S will handle it well. It even supports CUE which can be troublesome to other devices.
   
  Operation is best expressed in pictures. So I took plenty of those. As you can see, the main screen lists the song title including the extension (.FLAC, .WAV, etc). It lists the sample rate, time played or time remaining, and has all the basic transport features as buttons for touch operation. Volume level is displayed but it must be adjusted via remote control. After a short amount of time without activity, the display switches to a mostly black screen with just the title scrolling across. In later firmware versions album art is enabled but I didn’t like the way it worked. It seems the device would show any artwork in the folder being played, no matter the size. It took a while to redraw larger files, cut off space for title text, and generally didn’t add much to the experience. I do fine without it.
   
  General navigation is a bit different than most audio streamers like this. Instead of selecting by metadata like artist, album, or genre, it simply displays a list of folders. So basically it goes back to a drag and drop style of arranging music on an external hard drive. It seems surprisingly effective though once the number of folders becomes high enough, navigation gets harder. You find yourself scrolling through quite a few before arriving at the one you want. I’ve come to love it though – it reminds me of browsing through a physical media collection. I might set out to find a certain jazz album, but prior to finding it I spot something else I want to try and end up listening to classic rock instead. The device does support the PlugPlayer app for iOS devices, so proper navigation is likely easier to do that way. Which brings me to my big issue.
   
  I haven’t been able to get the device online yet. I tried three different USB WiFi adaptors. One ended up being defective all around but the other two do work on my various computers – but the HDM-03S doesn’t recognize them or even seem to give them power. I haven’t been able to figure it out. I could lug it into the other room and use an Ethernet cable but I just haven’t had the motivation yet. Without network connectivity, the device is still very useful for me, but I do need to figure it out one of these days.
   

   

   

   

  Unfortunately my unit shows all incoming data as 44.1kHz
  even when they are higher 
   

  First find your album
   

  Then pick a song
   

  Song plays
   

  Screen eventually goes to this mode
   

  Handles most files types: MP3
   

  FLAC from standard Redbook format
   

  48kHz
   

  88.2kHz
   

  96kHz
   

  176.4kHz
   

  192kHz
   

  Even 352.8kHz (which is quite rare to find)
   
*LISTENING*
  I’ll cut right to the chase – this is a top class transport, a very good DAC, and a reasonably good headphone amp.
   
  As a transport, it does exactly what I hoped it would, which is sound better than anything else I’ve heard. I’ve had some good to excellent transports around the house and done direct comparisons with many of them - Theta Miles, Lexicon RT20, Squeezebox Touch, NAD C446, Pioneer N50, Marantz SA-1 with extensive Audiomod upgrades, Classe CDP10, Rega Saturn, Esoteric SA-10, McIntosh MCD205, modified Sim Audio Moon CD-1… and I’m sure some others that I’m forgetting. The majority of these devices are highly regarded, with many priced in the multi-thousand dollar range. The Marantz SA-1 was $7500 when new and has another $7K worth of upgrades on it. Yet none of these could quite do what the HDM-03S can in terms of feeding a top quality, pure, low jitter signal to an external DAC. I really do think this device may have maximized what is possible from a standard SPDIF connection. Perhaps some megabuck $30K transport can do a better job but I’m unlikely to ever own such a device. The only competition I can see is one that doesn’t play by the rules of an SPDIF connection – I’m referring of course to asynchronous USB transfer. I believe the potential is higher for a well done async solution compared to even the best SPDIF signal. The hot ticket right now happens to be the $300 Squeezebox Touch with a custom add-on enabling a USB 2.0 output. This can pass 24/192 data asynchronously to compatible DACs with stunning results. I need to do more comparisons to see how much improvement that brings…. for now I can just say that no other SPDIF transport I’ve heard can touch the HDM-03S (in my experience).
   
  So what differences do a great transport make compared to a merely good transport? The answer really depends on your DAC. Some DACs are happy with any reasonably good signal, and don’t seem to scale much higher. At that point there is no use in spending more money chasing a better transport. My Yulong D100 is one of those types – I don’t feel it sounds any better being fed by the HDM-03S compared to using a reasonably good transport like the Pioneer N50, Theta Miles, or just the stock SPDIF output of the Squeezebox Touch. So in that case there is not much benefit. But in DACs where it does seem to be more significant, you can expect things like tighter focus, a better defined soundstage, superior imaging, a more natural presentation…. All those “squishy” audiophile type definitions that can be difficult to describe or comprehend. Readers familiar with my style know that I’m not really the type to ascribe night and day differences in sound quality based purely on a transport. Yet it does make sense to me that a superior signal would be an easier “load” for the DAC to handle; even DACs with exceptional jitter reduction capabilities would be working with a more pristine signal right from the start, therefore guaranteeing the accuracy only hoped for by an ideal de-jitter process. So I don’t feel that I’m crossing the line into snake-oil nonsense here. As always, the reader is free to disagree with me.
   
  When using the analog outputs, the HDM-03S sounds very good as well. It has a smooth analog feel to it that rivals many of the better stand-alone DACs I’ve heard. I compared it to the Rega DAC recently and to my ears the two sounded nearly identical. The Rega was ultimately superior by a small margin, having a more open top end with less veil, but it was a fairly close call. For those familiar with that unit, you’ll know what I mean when I say the balance of detail and musicality is very nicely done. Perhaps not the last word in ultra-analytical sonic precision but very involving and rhythmically correct. There’s a slight warmth over the presentation and it tends to make all music sound as good as possible. This is probably not the DAC you would use in a mastering session because it would tend to hide flaws in your mix. But for someone merely concerned with listening, it is a very nice sound.
   
  As I mentioned the Rega DAC sounded nearly identical with the HDM-03S. I also hear a strong similarity to the Yulong Audio flagship Sabre D18 unit. That machine is the better DAC overall, taking the same recipe a bit farther to maturity. So ultimately the HDM-03S is not quite on par with my reference units like the Anedio D2 or Violectric V800. But those are dedicated DACs costing more than the HDM-03S, and they don’t have nearly as much functionality. If I had to rely solely on the JF Digital machine as my only DAC I would certainly be able to get by happily. I would rank it close to my Yulong D100 MKI or Matrix Quattro DAC in terms of overall ability, just trailing the D100 MKII. I’d also rate it slightly higher than the Pioneer N50 I recently reviewed (and enjoyed).
   
  The integrated headphone amplifier is probably the weakest link of the whole device. Not that it is bad – on the contrary, it is generally pleasing with a warm smooth tone reminiscent of the RCA output. It has good performance overall and most people would probably be more than satisfied with it. As a bit of a headphone snob, I have many other dedicated amps to choose from, so I usually prefer one of my reference units instead. Comparing the headphone out to a quality budget standalone amp like the Matrix M-Stage or the Yulong A100, the built in amp is a bit hazy and indistinct, but does have very nice tonality and good low frequency control. Resolution is fair and imaging is clear enough to be convincing. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the amp is very respectable but doesn’t stand out as much as the RCA or digital outputs.
   

  System takes just over 1 minute to cold boot
   

  Progress bar lets you know how close you are
   
*SUNDRY COMMENTS*
  A downside to the whole experience is the lack of after sales support. It’s not just the language barrier either – I get the impression from the manufacturer website that they aren’t as focused on individual sales as they are on finding OEM partnerships. For example, there are several firmware updates, but there is very little info as to the changes each one brings. Each time I’ve updated I’ve had a nervous feeling like I may be about to ruin the machine. There is also the matter of finding a matching WiFi adapter which has been mildly frustrating. Most companies would have a list of recommended adapters, or a forum where fellow users can post their results, or something to help the situation. Not so in this case. I'm also scared that I may somehow damage the remote, which would be a big deal. Many functions are only accessible with the remote. I'd have to contact the manufacturer and hope I could get a new one. I should hurry up and program my Harmony remote to duplicate this remote, just in case. 
   
  There also appears to be a recent upgrade to the main processing module. The website doesn’t really say how one can update to the new version. It does list the specs, which happen to be the same as I already have in the HDM-03S (the newest of all the different models). So perhaps I already have the newest processor installed? To make matters worse, the new module is not quite a plug and play upgrade – each model has a different set of instructions for some hardware modification necessary to support the upgrade. It involves cutting traces and soldering. Since instructions exist to do this process for the HDM-03S, do I then logically conclude that I don’t have the updated processor after all? I don’t know. There are some very recent firmware updates that specifically state they only work with the upgrade. If I try them, will I brick my unit? I need to have someone translate for me to get answers to my questions. For now I’m keeping it as-is with the older but solid firmware.
   
*CONCLUSION*
  The HDM-03S is a quirky device. With a little refinement and polish, it could easily be rebadged and sold as a much more expensive product. The sound quality is certainly there - this is quite simply the best SPDIF transport I have ever experienced. Yet those little quirks keep it from becoming something that has mass appeal for the general user. Lots of folks are accustomed to browsing by artist or genre and would have a difficult time with the folder-based navigation of this machine. But it works for me, and I feel like a bandit having only paid what I did for it.
   
  By way of analogy: many people still prefer the experience of vinyl. It may have started with the sound quality but has become something more than that. They maintain expensive turntable rigs that have far less convenience compared to a music server or even a CD player. Yet they have become used to browsing their physical media, organizing it, cleaning it, selecting the particular album they wish to play. And in that way the aspect that is considered detrimental by many, becomes an enjoyable ritual by few. I’ve seen the HDM-03S referred to as a “digital turntable” according to Google Chrome translation. I think it’s an appropriate term. Scrolling through the directories, less than perfect as it may be, has become my ritual through which I have found many hours of enjoyment.
   
  I don’t know if anyone else around here will ever own a JF Digital product. But for me this has become the foundation of my fairly substantial equipment collection. I’ve had some great network audio devices come and go through my system and have enjoyed them very much, but nothing has come close to replacing the HDM-03S. It isn’t the perfect device for everyone but it comes rather close for me. I can’t see it being displaced in my system anytime soon, and down the road I know I’ll have to spend an obscene amount of money to do any better.


----------



## project86

Pioneer Elite N-50
   
   
   

   
   
  I’ve been covering media streamers, network audio players, or whatever you want to call them, as often as I can around here. I think HeadFi is a great audience for these types of devices – we are generally younger and more knowledgeable about computers than your average “The Absolute Sound” reader. Or at least that’s my assumption; I could be wrong. But I do see a large percentage of folks around here who completely rely on lossless audio files instead of spinning their original CDs. So I’d say we have a pretty good demand for devices that help tap in to those files.
   
  But isn’t it easier to just play them straight from your computer? There is already a plethora of excellent choices in the realm of USB DACs, spanning all price points. Why spend extra on a stand-alone device to accomplish what your computer will already do? In my Streaming Audio Devices review and information thread, I lay out the reasons like so: some people don’t want to mess with having a computer in their playback system. The system is probably in a dedicated area, away from their desktop computer. They don’t want the noise associated with the computer, nor do they want a monitor in their system. They don’t want to bother with playback software, configuration, and the inevitable troubleshooting that computers bring. They just want something simple that can act as a relatively foolproof front-end, that will sit next to their pre-amp and other gear and not look out of place. In short, they want the benefits of having their entire library at hand, including hi-res downloads, while retaining the simplicity and ease of use that a regular CD player would have. That’s why I think these types of devices are important.   
   
  Pioneer recently launched their first entries into this category. The N-50 (and little brother N-30) aims to compete with the NAD C 446, Denon DNP-720AE, and Marantz NA7004 full sized components rather than devices like the Logitech Squeezebox Touch. I’ve spent some time with the N-50 and think it has some very strong points, along with some smaller aspects that could be improved. But for the right type of user this could be a great match.
   
   

   

   

   

   

  Optional wireless unit
   
   
*DESIGN*
  The N-50 is branded as part of Pioneer’s “Elite” line of components. Back in the day that meant something very significant. You could count on the Elite line to be far better than your average audio/video components. Somewhere along the way, it seems like the Elite brand got watered down. Instead of classic models like the DV-09 and DV-38a (each costing several thousand dollars), it ended up with gear like the DV-46AV and DV-49AV, each just a few hundred dollars. It looks like Pioneer is now bringing the Elite brand name back to where it belongs.
   
  The N-50 is a stand-alone component roughly the size of a higher-end CD player. It has quite a few tricks up its sleeve: AirPlay compatibility, DLNA support for network playback, internet radio, USB port for direct playback from a flash drive, and dedicated remote apps for Apple and Android devices. Another standout feature is the set of digital inputs which allow the N-50 to perform DAC duty: it has toslink and coaxial SPDIF inputs as well as an asynchronous USB input. I’m not aware of any competing device with a high end USB implementation like the N-50.
   
  On the front panel, you’ll notice the 2.5 inch LCD display. Next to that are control buttons allowing full control of the transport and menu functions without needing a remote. On the left side you find a power button and a USB port. On the rear we see the array of digital inputs – toslink, coaxial SPDIF, and USB. There is also toslink and coaxial digital outputs along with the single ended RCA analog outputs. An Ethernet port allows wired connectivity, and two separate jacks accommodate the optional add-ons for wireless connectivity. The first (and more important) is a USB port dedicated to providing power to the Pioneer WL300 wireless adapter, which also plugs into the Ethernet jack. The second is a proprietary slot for the ST200 bluetooth adaptor.
   
  Internally, the N-50 is fairly complex. Pioneer isolates each section on its own PCB, presumably under the guise of reduced interference. So there is a main board that handles the processing, another board for the power supply, and another for the DAC section. The analog and digital sections each get their own separate EI core transformer. The USB input is handled by the C-Media CM6631, and the other two digital inputs go through an AKM AK4118 DIR. All three inputs can handle up to 24-bit/192kHz data streams. Since the DAC board is facing “down”, I can’t get a look at the design. I know it is based around a 32-bit AKM AK4480 DAC, which Pioneer has recently used in a few other Elite series disc players and surround receivers. It is also used in the Fostex HP-P1 portable DAC/headphone amp device. I confirmed with my contact at Pioneer that the N-50 is a completely new design – it does not borrow elements from the other Elite products.
   

   

   

   

   

   

  Top side of analog section - the good stuff is facing down
   

  Hard to see, but this is the Cmedia 6631 asynchronous USB receiver
   
   
*BUILD QUALITY*
  The N-50 reminds me of the old Pioneer Elite disc spinners from back in the day, minus the rosewood side panels (unfortunately). It weighs in at 16 pounds and has a nice thick brushed aluminum front panel. While it is not likely to be mistaken for a product from McIntosh or Accuphase, it nonetheless feels like a high quality unit, more than appropriate for its price range. The remote has a solid feel to it as well. It’s passable from a usability standpoint - long and skinny with a fairly good placement of buttons. But honestly the target user for this device will almost certainly have an Apple or Android device to use as a remote. Pioneer has dedicated software on both platforms for that purpose.
   

   
   
*USE*
  Reviewing a player like this calls for a special section that I don’t normally include when covering a DAC or amp. Since the main function of these devices is to replace the computer or CD player, they become the main point of contact for the entire system. So they need to be relatively easy to deal with during day to day operation. The N-50 succeeds here on most levels. The menu structure is very straight forward – if you can handle an iPod Classic or Sansa Clip, you should easily feel at home with the N-50. I do wish Pioneer had included wireless capabilities out of the box instead of requiring the $150 add on. It took me a few tries to get the WL300 wireless adapter to pair with my router. Once you’ve got it up and running though, it is fairly smooth sailing.
   
  My chief complaint with the whole experience is the size of the screen. At just 2.5 inches, there simply isn’t much room to work with. The fonts used are therefore very small, and you get a tiny little square for album art. It worked just fine when used in a headphone rig: the display was adequate when sitting a few feet away, and I appreciated having the transport buttons at hand. But sitting on a component shelf across the room is another story. Even with perfect vision, the display was simply too small to be useful. Obviously if I used my iPad as remote then I had all the info displayed there. But that defeats the purpose of having a display on the device in the first place. I couldn’t help but notice the large area in the center of the front panel that was left unused.  It looks like Pioneer gave more real estate to the “Elite” logo than the screen itself. This seems like a missed opportunity in an otherwise well thought out design.
   
  Like many of these types of devices, metadata and artwork is a hit or miss affair. This really has more to do with your files being configured properly in the first place than it does with the N-50. If Windows Media Player finds the art and the tagging, chances are good that the N-50 will display them. But if you just purchase an album from HDtracks, throw it on a flash drive, and plug it in to the N-50, you will probably not get the art to appear. Again, this is common among all the network audio playing devices I’ve tried.
   
  The dedicated software for iPhone/iPad is nothing special. It gets the job done by allowing you to power off/on, select your source, switch tracks, etc. But it doesn’t look particularly appealing. You don’t even get album art displayed during playback. Scrolling through long lists of tracks or artists can be tedious because it lacks any kind of search options. Frankly, I ended up using other software to select my music, only going back to the Pioneer app when I needed to power off. But I’m still glad that they included some type of dedicated software, unlike NAD with the C 446 device.
   
   

  Main menu
   

  Basic play screen 
   

  For some reason it only uses half the screen
  for listing files
   

  Browsing
   

  Sorting
   

  Airjam is for use over Bluetooth - multiple devices can join in
  and stream to the N-50. This would actually be kind of fun in
  a workplace or dorm setting as background music.
   

  Airplay is easy
   

  Airplay again, through another program
   
   
   
*EQUIPMENT*
  This is the equipment I used during my evaluation of the Pioneer N-50:
   
  Sources (used as transport): Lexicon RT-20, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, JF Digital HDM-03S music server, Acer Aspire One laptop
   
  Amps: Violectric V200, Analog Design Labs Svetlana 2, Matrix M-Stage
   
  Headphones: Sennheiser HD700 prototype, Audio Technica W1000x, Heir Audio 8.A, Unique Melody Merlin, Aurisonics AS-1b, Earproof Atom, Lawton Audio LA7000
   
  I also listened through a speaker setup using the N-50 as source, ADLabs Svetlana 2 as preamp, Parasound 2125 amp, and Octet Matrix DE7 speakers. All cables used were from Signal Cable, with power conditioning by Furman. I burned the N-50 in for over 100 hours prior to doing any serious listening.
   
*IMPRESSIONS*
  The N-50 is simply a great sounding machine. A lot of effort clearly went into the design, and the result is obvious in terms of audio quality. Everything sounds clean, detailed, mostly neutral but not overly analytical. It has a sort of smoothness up top that doesn’t scream “digital!” but retains very good extension. It’s a tough thing to balance and I’ve heard plenty of DACs costing more than this entire device get it wrong. With better headphones or my speaker setup, the N-50 produced solid imaging and a moderately large soundstage. It didn’t have the last bit of realism that comes with much more expensive DACs, though I think all but the most demanding audiophile would be pleased with the overall presentation.
   
  I really enjoyed the capabilities it had to play almost any type of file I threw at it. Listening to McCoy Tyner Quartet’s _New York Reunion_ in 24/96 format, I was struck by the way the N-50 handled Al Foster’s excellent drumming. This is a guy who played with _everyone_ including Miles Davis (for over a decade), and is one of my all time favorite percussionists. On track number one “Recorda Me”, I love the way he seems to take a back seat to his bandmates, supporting their solos with competent but low key grooves. About half way through the track, it strikes me just how much he is actually doing. In a subtle way, without calling attention to himself, he’s being extremely creative with ride cymbal variations and all kinds of clever fills. It’s all there if you want to hear it, but it doesn’t jump out at you. I’m sure there is a metaphor in there somewhere about the performance of the N-50 but I’ll let you make that connection.
   
  The 24/192 capabilities over USB came in rather handy. Many DACs stop at 24/96 over USB, which is good enough to play most of my collection. But what about my HDtracks 24/192 edition of Marvin Gaye’s _What’s Going On_? Or my small collection of 24/192 vinyl rips? Those types of files are becoming just common enough in my library to be a nuisance if the DAC tops out at 96kHz. I also appreciate that the N-50 gives me several ways to handle these types: USB from my laptop, coaxial digital from my music server, even streaming via DLNA or Airplay. Unfortunately I ran into buffering issues with both methods of wireless streaming. At times I would make it through several tracks without issue. Other times I got buffering so badly that I had to find 24/96 or lesser files to play (which always worked without any problems). I’ve got a fairly robust 802.11n home network but perhaps others will have better luck. An Ethernet connection may do the trick, though at that point you’ve lost the main advantage of the networking feature since a direct asynchronous USB connection would be just as easy (since you would be in proximity to the computer anyway).
   
  A few limitations of note – the N-50 will not play higher than 24/96 from a flash drive plugged into the USB port. I figured USB drives would be faster and more reliable than the network streaming but apparently Pioneer disagrees. Files above 24/96 just show up as an invalid format. Also, the device doesn’t support ALAC or AIFF file formats. I use Windows 7 and store all my music in FLAC format with a few exceptions for WAV and (gasp!) 320k mp3, so this was not an issue for me. With users of the “other” operating system, this would be a serious handicap indeed, quite possibly a dealbreaker. Yet another limitation is the streaming of 24-bit/176.4kHz files through the USB DAC connection. Apparently the issue lies with the Cmedia 6631 USB chip, and it is a driver issue rather than a hardware limitation. The Schiit Bifrost DAC uses the same chip and has the same problem. A friend brought this to my attention after I had already sent the N-50 back to Pioneer. So I didn’t test this myself, though I did play Reference Recordings HRx tracks at 24/176.4 via coaxial SPDIF without issue. This is one problem that should be able to be addressed via software updates to the drivers once they get the bugs worked out.
   
  While we’re on the topic of limitations, another one bothered me just a little: no support for hard drive connections over USB. I had success with all the flash drives I tried, from 2GB to 16GB. But a portable USB powered 500GB drive failed to work, as did a self powered 2TB drive. My contact at Pioneer told me that it may be possible to enable this feature down the road but it is not planned at this time. The difficulty is due to the varying power requirements of portable drives. That makes sense to me and NAD handles their USB connection the same way. I’m still not clear on why a stand-alone drive with a separate power connection shouldn’t work though – the Squeezebox Touch is able to read those just fine.
   
  But back to the sound - the best sound I heard from the N-50 was when I used it as a DAC through the asynchronous USB connection. Those who are familiar with my style know that I’m not usually one to hear major differences between various digital inputs. In my mind a good design should have little to no audible differences across all the inputs. Every once in a while I come across a product where one of the inputs (usually toslink but not always) sounds clearly inferior to the rest. I believe the N-50 is a bit different – rather than one of the inputs being compromised, it’s actually the advanced nature of the asynchronous USB connection that pulls ahead of the standard SPDIF alternatives. I don’t see any specific jitter reduction techniques applied here aside from what takes place in the digital audio interface receiver and the DAC chip itself. So the asynchronous connection very likely has the better numbers in that regard. Not to say the other two choices sound bad by any means – the difference is slight but noticeable when connected to a highly resolving system. USB also has the advantage of being more consistent. Feeding high jitter SPDIF signals from a cheap DVD player sounds clearly inferior to using a quality transport.
   
  Going a step further, I get the impression that the N-50 just doesn’t sound as good playing music through the network. There seems to be a general loss of clarity and resolution, particularly with respect to the “airiness” of the presentation. Imaging and soundstage capabilities suffer a bit due to this loss. It’s not terrible – the N-50 is still a very competent sounding device when streaming over the network. It just isn’t at its best that way. I wonder if this is some issue that could be fixed via software updates, because I can’t think of any good reason why it should be so. When using the N-50 as transport with an outboard DAC featuring comprehensive jitter reduction, such as the Violectric V800 or Anedio D1, the resulting sound is excellent. When I use a more basic DAC I don’t get much improvement over the analog outputs. I suspect that the networking process has much higher jitter than the other inputs. Still, I remain impressed with the sound overall. You would have to step up to something above the level of a Cambridge DACMagic (for example) in order to see any potential improvement.
   
  I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the sound modes. Aside from the standard playback, Pioneer gives two main options for tweaking the sound, or three if you could the “sound enhancer” which only applies to compressed files (I didn’t bother with that). The mode which gave the biggest difference in sound is called “Hi-Bit 32”. Pioneer doesn’t go too far in depth about this technology other than to say it “expands the input bit signals to create a natural and analogue-like waveform”. They specifically mention 24/192 signals being “expanded” to 32/192, but also mention standard resolution “CD audio” as well. They show a tiny picture of a waveform – jagged in 24-bit form, much smoother after 32-bit processing. I’m not really sure what to make of that idea. There are plenty of solid reasons why sample rate upconversion can help improve the audio experience. If a 16-bit track is involved, it generally gets padded to a bit depth of 24. But very few companies in the audio world opt to quantize to 32-bit, and I’m not convinced there is really any valid reason to do so. Despite that, I thought I heard subtle changes when switching to Hi-Bit mode. With some tracks there was an illusion of more spaciousness, more air in the presentation. Other times it was completely unnoticeable. It was subtle enough to have just been my imagination though. The other option is something Pioneer calls “Pure Sound”. This is said to bypass the DSP circuit, thus “reducing noise and producing playback sound with the greatest fidelity to the original.” Pure Sound can’t be combined with Hi-Bit 32, and the way things are worded Pioneer can’t seem to decide which is most important. To my ears, Pure Sound did not make any audible difference. I did end up leaving Hi-Bit mode active during most of my listening.
   
*CONCLUSION*
  The Pioneer N-50 is an interesting device. In theory, it is a network audio player that can also be used as a DAC. In practice, it is best used as a DAC that also happens to have network audio functionality. It’s a subtle distinction, one that I’m not sure Pioneer was really aiming for, but that’s how I see this device. It sounds pretty great no matter how you use it – even with network streaming it has a clean and smooth sound that is fairly articulate but not overly analytical. This sort of sound signature should be pleasing for the majority of users. I think it falls just slightly behind the NAD C 446 when used as streaming player, but surpasses that unit when used as a DAC, especially over USB.
   
  The fact that it sounds best as a USB DAC might seem strange – if that’s the case, why not just buy a dedicated USB DAC instead of this network device? Realistically, this is a very strong competitor at $700 even if used strictly as a DAC. I can think of several highly regarded DACs with 4 figure price tags which do not perform as well in many respects. In my mind, this is quite an accomplishment for Pioneer.
   
  Functionally the N-50 has a lot to offer. There are so many ways to get music in or out of the device that it should fit into any system in one capacity or another. The unit is very easy to operate when playing tracks over a network and even more simple when using Airplay. The biggest difficulty of the whole operation will be organizing your music files with the proper metadata. But that’s not Pioneer’s fault.
   
  Ultimately I think the N-50 has a lot of promise, and delivers in many areas. Yet it could use a bit of fine tuning. It isn’t the magic bullet for network audio players (but nothing is at this point). I’d love to see the display expanded to useable proportions. I’d also like wireless connectivity built in. Support for USB hard drives would be also great, as would support for ALAC and AIFF files. Most of all I’d like it if Pioneer was able to bring the network playback sound quality up to the same levels as the digital inputs. With just a few relatively minor yet important changes, this device could become a clear leader in the segment. And if there was an updated model with a larger display, it would be unstoppable. As it stands the N-50 is still a very nice product overall, and worthy of serious consideration.


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## project86

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## project86

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## project86

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## project86

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## project86

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## project86

OK, first review (Grace Digital Tuner) complete. This page will be under construction for a while as I complete all the remaining reviews. But in the mean time - any questions, comments, whatever, please post! It doesn't necessarily have to be related to one of the devices I'm reviewing - I'd love to hear what other people are doing in this area. Custom built media server PC? Old school Escient Fireball box? High-end Sooloos setup? Let's talk about it.


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## CEE TEE

This is a great thread, I didn't realize *how nice* it would be to have another way to:

 access computer files
 use a remote
 have a different interface
 have the ability to access files from where my stack will be
 have the ability to access files directly from a NetGear ReadyNAS RAID Storage
   
  It just feels like I am not "using my computer" to get to my music and somehow I like that better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
*I picked up a Squeezebox Touch and enjoy using the device so far...*
   

   
  BUT- with regards to RAID Storage and access, I have heard that it doesn't always work well with them.
   
  The Squeezebox is supposed to be able to put software on a NetGear NAS and then I won't even have to turn on the computer.
   
  I've been eyeing the new ReadyNAS NV+ *v2* that aren't even for sale yet.  (4-Bay, 4 Terabyte units are supposed to be $599!!!)
   
  From AnandTech review:

   
*I would really be interested in which devices could access and interface with the files on my future NetGear RDN4410 + have optical through-put to my Benchmark DAC1.*
   
*Thank you very much!*


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## City2011

Great article, thanks
   
  we are running a survey regarding importance of features for this kind of device. Please have a look and if you have 2 mins you could fill it in.
   
  Actually, it would help me a lot to have opinion from the experts : http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/C8BTCDN
   
  Thanks
  Have a great day!


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## project86

Quote: 





city2011 said:


> Great article, thanks
> 
> we are running a survey regarding importance of features for this kind of device. Please have a look and if you have 2 mins you could fill it in.
> 
> ...


 

 I filled it out, thanks. Sounds like a good way to solicit input from your target market. 
   


  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> This is a great thread, I didn't realize *how nice* it would be to have another way to:
> 
> access computer files
> use a remote
> ...


 

 The Squeezebox Touch is a great little device. To be honest, I went into this article thinking I would find a replacement for it - something that would blow it out of the water. That has proved difficult. Not that it does everything better than every other device.... that's absolutely not the case. But it does have a nice mix of features for the price, and no one else has the same collection of services (aka APPS, a word which I hate). I use MOG from my Touch quite often. 
   
  I haven't heard about specific issues using a RAID NAS with the Touch. But it wouldn't surprise me. Their software, though very powerful and much improved from several years ago, is still pretty confusing and sometimes quirky. The other day I had to factory reset mine because it didn't want to open any of the apps: it kept saying "your device is already registered under a different account" or something like that. 
   
  As far as using your future NAS device, most of the devices I linked to should work. The ReadyNAS line seems to be DLNA certified for media streaming, so in theory it will work with any device that can do that. Of the models I have at the moment, the Grace, NAD, and Teac should work without a fuss. All three can spit out a digital signal to your DAC over Toslink. The JF Digital device doesn't have WiFi (need to add a USB adapter) and it only does coaxial digital out. So that's off your list.


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## CEE TEE

^Much appreciated for the additional consideration...seems like DNLA certification for a RAID storage device to stream media should be an extra stamp of compatibility.
   
  Nice to know nothing blows the SB Touch out of the water so far.  Will keep an eye on this thread, though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I certainly hope so and as soon as the new v2 ReadyGear units are available for sale I should be getting one.  I'll report back here on how well it goes...thanks!


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## wichogt

I like this thread, I've been wanting something like this for a long time. what I don't like are the pricepoints of the gear you have choosen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  just and idea:
  couldn't you just try for example one of those cheap micca players with optical/coaxial output (there must be others out there but this is what comes to my mind first) hooked up to one of those cheap rear view car LCDs? 
  since you'll be conecting your DAC and AMP to the optical/coaxial out of the player, scalability would not be a concern.
   
  personaly I don't care much about streaming services because of the quality, I mean this is not ment to be something portable, just a low consumption computer replacement (If i got it right) so using anything lower than your own FLAC files on a USB HDD or NAS feels some how wrong.


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## project86

Quote: 





wichogt said:


> I like this thread, I've been wanting something like this for a long time. what I don't like are the pricepoints of the gear you have choosen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry about the prices! The Grace Digital Tuner is currently $149 for refurbs on their website. But maybe that doesn't quite do what you want..... I thought I good a good range though, from $220 to over $1000 new. 
   
  Your idea about rigging up a player is interesting, but not exactly what I want to focus on. People who are so inclined can probably figure all kinds of creative ways to make something work. But I'm looking more for commercial products that anyone can buy and use. I think there are a lot of folks out there who would like to get something like this going but are under the impression that they have to spend $4k or more for a Linn. I want to show people that there are  more reasonable ways of getting there without going broke in the process.


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## project86

Bump for the update - I added my review of the NAD C 446 media tuner. It's on the first page.


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## filmat11

I've been lurking here for a couple months. The overwhelming amount of stuff to read, consider, and try to absorb is staggering. Thanks to all you guys who are transmitting your knowledge, wisdom and experience to us lesser beings.
   
  The reason I am posting is to comment on the Grace Tuner. I bought a refurb unit direct from Grace and finally tonight got it up and running. It does exactly what I want it to: streams internet radio thru my (modestly priced) Onkyo A-5VL amp/dac and out to speakers/phones.
   
  I love this thing! My ears are still learning, so my comments here are for the (hate to say it) "coolness" factor of having a hi-fi device which looks great on my shelf, and lets me hear thousands of internet radio stations with decent clarity and fidelity.
   
  I have had it on a couple hours, and not one single hitch or dropout or issue. And it takes a load off my laptop not having to stream music/talk radio/whatever, and transfers that to a standalone device.
   
  So far, so good, and thank you sir for your excellent review of the Grace Tuner. You are the main reason I got it, and I couldn't be happier. Will report back as needed with additional findings.
   
  Jim


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## fzman

Add Music Fidelity M1Clic and PS Audio Perfect Wav Dac w/ Bridge to the list - these both have ethernet streaming capabilities.


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## project86

Quote: 





filmat11 said:


> I've been lurking here for a couple months. The overwhelming amount of stuff to read, consider, and try to absorb is staggering. Thanks to all you guys who are transmitting your knowledge, wisdom and experience to us lesser beings.
> 
> The reason I am posting is to comment on the Grace Tuner. I bought a refurb unit direct from Grace and finally tonight got it up and running. It does exactly what I want it to: streams internet radio thru my (modestly priced) Onkyo A-5VL amp/dac and out to speakers/phones.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Jim - that's exactly the purpose of this thread. Not to necessarily convince people to buy anything, but rather to help them make an informed decision about what works for them.
   
  I'm glad you are enjoying the Grace Tuner. It would be easy to overlook just based on price, but it really is a great performer for what it is. The refurbs for $150 are almost a no brainer. I'd love to hear your continued impressions of it once you have some more time spent.
   

  
  Quote: 





fzman said:


> Add Music Fidelity M1Clic and PS Audio Perfect Wav Dac w/ Bridge to the list - these both have ethernet streaming capabilities.


 

  
  Thanks! I meant to add the Clic, must have forgot. I'll have to look into the PWD with Bridge - I didn't realize it could be used in that fashion. Thanks for the info.


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## pasgod

Very interesting thread Project86 (as usual with you).
   
  I've just found 2 new streaming audio devices made by Pioneer : the N50 and the N30 ($699 and $499).
   
  The N50 is a streaming device and an USB dac (async. 24/192) with coaxial and optical inputs. The N30 is only a streaming device, it doesn't have the USB input, nor the digital inputs. Both have optical and coaxial outputs (24/192). Both have a USB in front for Ipod, Iphone...
   
  Very good looks for both.
   
  More here :
   
http://www.audiostream.com/content/pioneer-n-50-elite-networked-audio-player
   
  Pioneer's website :
   
  N50   http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Audio-Components/Hi-Fi+Audio/N-50
   
  N30  http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Audio-Components/Hi-Fi+Audio/N-30


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## Il Mostro

Very well done and useful thread -- I will be following as it further develops.  Thank you.


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## sonci

Thanks for doing this
It reminds the time when HeadFi pc was fun.
I still think maybe pc section is not the right place, considering those with audio rack systems are in the other sections.
I would suggest shorter reviews if possible.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





pasgod said:


> Very interesting thread Project86 (as usual with you).
> 
> I've just found 2 new streaming audio devices made by Pioneer : the N50 and the N30 ($699 and $499).
> 
> ...


 


  Will add those, thanks! 


  Quote: 





sonci said:


> Thanks for doing this
> It reminds the time when HeadFi pc was fun.
> I still think maybe pc section is not the right place, considering those with audio rack systems are in the other sections.
> I would suggest shorter reviews if possible.


 

 I struggled to figure out which section this belonged in. It could really fit in several spots, so I just chose this one. Maybe that was wrong.
   
  Shorter reviews are my resolution for the new year.


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## doctorjazz

Hi-great thread. I have a Squeezebox Touch, which was working fine with my upstairs PC and my iMac, allowing me to listen to the computers on my living room stereo. I have been collecting FLAC files, and found my hard drives filling, so I bought a Seagate Goflex 2 TB external hard drive, thinking I would move all the music files to it, and be able to use the Squeezebox to listen in the living room (Krell preamp/amp, Thiel speakers, somewhat dated, pre-kids, still nice sounding). I also stream to my Android Phone via Tonido-slow, especially between tracks but usable. At any rate, this seems not to work; at least, I can't get it to work. The Squeezebox can't "see" the Seagate. I called Logitech, and was told "the device is not supported". External hard drives connected via USB do work, but this connects to the router (I later found out it uses the Pogoplug system for streaming/NAS). I'm not terribly adept at computer management, and was hoping someone had a (not too complex) way to get this to work. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and add more external hard drives via USB, but I'm hoping what I already have will suffice. I appreciate any help from Head-Fi community. 
  Thanks-Jack


----------



## project86

Quote: 





doctorjazz said:


> Hi-great thread. I have a Squeezebox Touch, which was working fine with my upstairs PC and my iMac, allowing me to listen to the computers on my living room stereo. I have been collecting FLAC files, and found my hard drives filling, so I bought a Seagate Goflex 2 TB external hard drive, thinking I would move all the music files to it, and be able to use the Squeezebox to listen in the living room (Krell preamp/amp, Thiel speakers, somewhat dated, pre-kids, still nice sounding). I also stream to my Android Phone via Tonido-slow, especially between tracks but usable. At any rate, this seems not to work; at least, I can't get it to work. The Squeezebox can't "see" the Seagate. I called Logitech, and was told "the device is not supported". External hard drives connected via USB do work, but this connects to the router (I later found out it uses the Pogoplug system for streaming/NAS). I'm not terribly adept at computer management, and was hoping someone had a (not too complex) way to get this to work. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and add more external hard drives via USB, but I'm hoping what I already have will suffice. I appreciate any help from Head-Fi community.
> Thanks-Jack


 

 Hi Jack,
   
  Good question - this is one of the reasons I started this thread, in order to discuss issues like yours. I had hoped more people would be involved in the discussion, but maybe it will pick up later.
   
  It's a complex situation due to all the variables involved. But this is what I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong): You have the Seagate drive added to the network via your router, and are using Pogoplug to manage it. This will allow it to work with UPnP/DLNA streaming devices like the NAD C 446, Grace Tuner, and many others. The Squeezebox Touch, unfortunately, does not use the same protocol, but rather has its own software (SqueezeServer, now renamed to Logitech Media Server). 
   
  Solutions?
   
  Well, since you already must have some form of SqueezeServer running (since you mentioned using the living room stereo to stream from the computer), it might just be a matter of configuration. Ignoring audio streaming for the moment, does the Seagate drive show up on your network as a drive? And you can read and write files to it? If so, you might be able to configure SqueezeServer to "scan" that drive for files, which would then be accessible through your Touch. 
   
  If it doesn't show up with its own drive letter, or if SqueezeServer can't "see" it, then your other option is to use a direct USB connection to the Touch itself. I've seen some of the GoFlex drives with a USB port, so maybe yours does have one. The downsides to this direct connection - the Touch is not as quick when managing files directly from a larger drive. It is acting as the server, rather than your computer being the server, and it just isn't as good. Also, you would have to manually connect the drive to your PC to transfer files whenever you get new music.
   
  Hope this helps - try some things out and let us know how it works.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks for the quick reply-I'm surprised it isn't a busier thread-I'm sure many Head-Fi folks are playing around with streaming...maybe everyone is happy with their setups and have no questions/issues (though, looking around Head-Fi, folks generally have as much to say (if not more) about things they love or have found). Anyway, the Seagate GoFlex COMES with PogoPlug (it has a base, which has pogoplug built in)...that is how it works. I think I might have been slower to buy if I realized that (though I had been considering Tonidoplug, a similar device, that I had read was better at streaming). Anyway, if I get the questions, both my PC and iMac see the GoFlex as an X drive, and I can drag music to it from either. The Touch, though, doesn't see the X drive at all, which I don't get (I'd think it would show like the connected external hard drive, which is connected to my PC, and shows as a drive there and on the touch.). Anyway, connecting the GoFlex to the Touch is a possibility, though, as you say, it removes any network connectivity, and I'd have to plug it back into the router to get more music onto it. You say it would be slow...would it work to connect it to a PC and that into the Squeezebox? (of course, my wife, who already feels like a martyr having to live with my living room setup, would be even less happy with an old PC there...I do need to upgrade the Dell I'm using, though...). (I'm not sure if the software on the GoFlex allows it to be used in this way, or if it is configured for router connection If it can be connected to the PC or iMac, I could do that, and the Touch should see it, though I'd still have to disconnect/reconnect to load. The Seagate site is not help on this, though I get the feeling it doesn't hook directly to a computer like a standard external drive). If I replaced the Dell, it would be free to use in that way...would still have to unhook to load music. Not impossible, but a goal of this streaming stuff is generally to have as much music available, in as many places and in as good-sounding files as can be had, with as little fuss as possible, if I have this right (at least, that is what I'd like).


----------



## doctorjazz

One question-how do I "configure" the Touch to see the Seagate X drive? That is essentially my basic question. The answer from Logitech is that I can't.
  Thanks again, Jack


----------



## project86

So I did a little searching, and it seems that the Seagate uses its own special software, so it won't natively run Squeezebox Server, or talk to it at all. There is a way to modify the drive to work for you, but it seems a pretty complex: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlug#SqueezePlug_GoFlexNet_Image
   
  Basically your Seagate is a little purpose-built computer, complete with a CPU and memory. It has an operating system that is incompatible with your Touch. You need to basically re-install a new OS (the link above) in order to make it work. This may be something more complex than you are willing to attempt.
   
  Lots of people use an old PC as a Vortexbox. It is very simple to set up using the free software, and basically turns the computer into something similar to what a NAS is.... you could then connect your Seagate via USB and it would word as you originally hoped: network access from any computer, streaming files to and fro, and of course working with your Touch.


----------



## filmat11

I previously reported (post #20 above) that I had purchased a Grace Internet Radio Tuner (model GDI-IRDT200, reviewed above by project86). Initially I was quite enamored with it. While the interface was a bit klunky (setting up network passwords, preferences, internet stations, etc. was a bit awkward but I got used to it quickly), it was worth it for the key features I wanted in one of these devices:
 * coax and optical outputs to my Peachtree Decco
 * remote control…although this was so basic as to make it not terribly useful
 * internet radio…this was the biggie. Access to 16,000 stations without turning on my laptop was just terrific
 * the thing looked cool with my other hifi equipment…had a component-like shape and look

 So why am I returning it?

 It sits less than 6 feet from my cable router, and will absolutely not lock onto it and stay locked. When I first got it and hooked it up, I had a full 4 bars. For some reason, this is now one bar, with an occasional blip up to two bars (truly, it’s mostly NO bars). I just cannot understand why it has deteriorated this way. Tech support, which shot back an answer within 8 hours, said to change the channel on the router (done) and to reset the router (done…several times). In addition, I recently replaced my old router with a dual-network Netgear (before you ask, the problem started with the prior router), so it's not router issues...at least I am convinced it's not router issues (far from a network expert, for sure!).

 Absolutely no difference. In fact, it would not lock at all after doing these things and rebooting the Grace unit. I had to run a network cord across the room and hook it up direct. With a direct connection, all is well: no dropouts, no hesitation, no glitches. However, this is unsightly and will not work in my situation. Besides, this is supposed to be a WIRELESS streamer!

 I looked at reviews on Amazon, and at the very limited Grace forums, and found this is a common issue. So it goes back (they have stated that units bought by December 22 have until 1/31/12 to be returned for a refund. I will be taking them up on this offer).

 Six feet away! Holy cow, what if it was in the next room? Or on the other end of the house? Is the wifi chip in this thing that poor? Surely these chips are so ubiquitous that it wouldn’t cost much to put a top quality one into these tuners.

 I just wanted to report back about this issue. I had previously praised the Grace Tuner.

 Will be trying the Squeezebox Touch next. I don’t like its looks nearly as well, yet its functionality trumps looks.

 Thanks for reading.
  
  Jim


----------



## project86

Sorry to hear that Jim. Mine is still going strong so I guess I got lucky.
   
  Unfortunately there isn't really anything out there which has a similar "full size component" look, at a low price. The NAD C 446 is great, but is priced a bit too high to be seen as a casual add on. 
   
  I feel like there is a bit of a hole in the market for the lower priced, simpler devices. If there was a device with a full size form factor, wireless streaming, hi-res FLAC playback, a nice big display.... but not much else, for a decent price, I'd buy it in a heartbeat (and I think others would too). We don't necessarily need a DAC, headphone jack, pre-amp controls, etc. built in to every device.


----------



## filmat11

Thanks project86. I agree with you completely on the hole in the marketplace...a hole which I had hoped the Grace unit had filled.
   
  BTW, if it makes any difference...it shouldn't, but want to fully disclose...mine was a refurbished unit bought direct from Grace. I assume their refurb's are as robust as the new units.
   
  I continue to read this thread, as it interests me greatly. Thanks for all your in-depth work on this new genre of digital products. I bet you have fun doing this!
   
  Onward!
   
  Jim


----------



## project86

I've got the new Pioneer N-50 "Audiophile Networked Audio Player" on the way to me for review. Looking forward to checking it out.


----------



## garysohn

I appreciate this thread and I am subscribed, but I would like to know more about how these devices are better than simply using my laptop.  The laptop has a full screen with which I can see all available options, and I can access any station I like by clicking on the desktop icon. For example, if I click on my icon for WFMU I have the option of several streams, but also the option of reading the forum comments. Clicking on my Soma FM icon shows all available streams which I can then examine.
  I am sure I am missing something here, but what is it?


----------



## project86

Quote: 





garysohn said:


> I appreciate this thread and I am subscribed, but I would like to know more about how these devices are better than simply using my laptop.  The laptop has a full screen with which I can see all available options, and I can access any station I like by clicking on the desktop icon. For example, if I click on my icon for WFMU I have the option of several streams, but also the option of reading the forum comments. Clicking on my Soma FM icon shows all available streams which I can then examine.
> I am sure I am missing something here, but what is it?


 

 The whole point of these devices is to keep the computer away from the main system. Computers do a great job of music playback on a casual level. And the value is obviously huge as a multi-purpose device that you likely already have around the house. But getting true high end sound out of a computer can be challenging - noisy hard drives, fans, a power supply not intended for that sort of thing.... the list goes on. Check out ComputerAudiophile.com to read about the lengths which people will go in order to get their computer to become a high end transport. 
   
  I care about sound, but equally important for me is the interface and ease of use. I have an audio rack and I don't really see a good way of integrating a computer there. I want physical buttons to push (or a touch screen at least) so I can't just rely on my iPad as remote all the time. A streaming audio device will act as the frontend for my audio files, and bridge the gap between my hard drive and my audio system.
   
  There is also the idea of having an integrated unit. Some of these devices like the NAD C 446 and the Pioneer N-50 have very good D/A conversion built in. So they act as a one box solution where a computer would need an external DAC to be in the chain. 
   
  Another aspect is simplicity. When I'm not home, my wife and kids still like to play music. I don't think they would be comfortable loading up Foobar2000 and combing through the options. But they _will_ be able to grab the Logitech Harmony remote, hit the button labeled "Listen to Music", and have a device ready to go with music selections from a simple menu. This doesn't apply to everyone but to me it is a big deal.


----------



## CEE TEE

I just picked up one of these Netgear 4-Bay RAID enclosures for $290 out the door.  I'll probably fill it with 4 x 2TB drives.
   
  Supposedly, I will be able to put Logitech Squeezbox software on the Netgear and NOT NEED to fire up my computer to access my music:  *Netgear > Squeezebox > Benchmark DAC > amp*!
   
  (Having the computer on all the time at home makes it harder to listen without distractions.)
   
  I'm waiting on a Salamander 5-shelf unit  and hope I can move away from my desk more easily at night.
   
  When I get it all together, I'll let you know here if I am successful at listening to music the way I want to.
   
  So, I'm surprised that this thread doesn't have more interest.


----------



## dnell87

The ReadyNAS NV+ is an EOL product. Very slow and doesn't support drives greater than 2TB.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Thanks, but I have read it is better than the new NV+ v2 and I may be okay with 4 x 2TB drives...I will use it for music/storage/TimeMachine.
   
  I just hope that I can get it to work with the SqueezeBox easily.  (Have heard that it does not always work.)
   
  I use a 10,000RPM Raptor drive for System and have a couple of other internal drives for Working/Scratch.  Also, another 6-7 externals for off-site and other uses...


----------



## project86

Update: added my review of the Pioneer N-50 which can be found on page one of this thread, or HERE as well.


----------



## estreeter

Still wading through your excellent reviews, project86, but I havent seen any mention of the *Arcam Solo Neo*. It did cop some flack for not handling 24/192, but most reviewers seemed to enjoy the sound signature. The  smaller, cheaper Solo Mini didnt even play WAV (!) or FLAC, but people bought them by the boatload - I hope someone can loan you their Neo for review.


----------



## project86

The Arcam does look intriguing for what it is. The issue is that there are so many of these devices out there (and growing every day), that I felt I should limit myself to HeadFi appropriate choices. Which for me translates to devices with some type of display to navigate files and such, as well as controls on the front panel (or touch screen). Many of these devices are just big black boxes and they want you to use an iPad or something for a remote. I figure since we are going to be tied to the gear by our headphone cable, might as well have everything at our fingertips. The Arcam doesn't do that.
   
  Maybe my limitations are too arbitrary.... but I don't have time to keep up reviewing even the stuff that does meet my qualifications. So I'll keep up my requirements for now.


----------



## estreeter

Fair point, although I'm constantly surprised by what enthusiasts can accomplish - voyage-mpd is old-school Linux *pain* to setup on the server but once you get it running, a child can control it from an iDevice via MPOD. I'm not saying someone needs to crack the firmware in the Arcam, but ......


----------



## CEE TEE

Thought I would post here that my *Squeezebox Touch* firmware or the computer server software needs to be downgraded to work again with my Mac to see playlists.
   
_Careful when you "upgrade" software/firmware._


----------



## estreeter

Someone mentioned the Sonos Connect - initiially, I couldnt recall which component that was but a little research revealed that its the new name for the *ZonePlayer 90*. Wikipedia dont appear to have the memo either:
   
The *ZP80* is an amp-less ZonePlayer that includes optical out, coaxial digital out, as well as analog RCA inputs and outputs. It has a built-in two-port Ethernet switch. The *ZP90* is the successor to the ZonePlayer 80, upgraded to SonosNet 2.0.
   
I'd want to see the iOS app in action with the Connect, but the ZonePlayer box itself isn't as expensive as I had feared. Where this system gets seriously expensive is when you want to have sound in every room in your home.


----------



## dcginc

I've been looking at this Cambridge unit and I see a newer product Not yet out stream magic 6

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=604&Title=NP30


----------



## project86

The Sonos stuff is interesting to me. Unless I'm mistaken, I think you can run just the single Sonos Connnect unit by itself, without needing any of the other models. That makes it fairly affordable. I see Wyred 4 Sound offering modified units as well, which could be nice for a simple all in one device.

I heard lots of bad things about the older Cambridge NP30. Supposedly they have redone the Stream Magic to fix those issues. We will see. It sure seems expensive compared to the Pioneer and NAD options. But maybe the quality is there to justify it.


----------



## estreeter

Agree that the Sonos option is a lot more cost-competitive than I had previously thought, especially when you see the asking prices for Meridian's Sooloos solution, although that seems to be aimed squarely at people who have the means and the motivation to be locked into an all-Meridian solution.


----------



## estreeter

Magnum Dynalab MD801 (and several higher model versions of same)
   
http://www.internetradiotuner.net/internet-radio-tuner-md801.htm
   

   
_1) The device needs to handle FLAC files. I consider this the standard for serious listening._
   
*AAC, Real, MP3, FLAC and WMA*
   
_2) It needs to have a dedicated display, capable of file navigation and most other basic functions. The majority of us don’t have (or want to have a monitor in our listening systems_.
   
a stately *3.5" color touch screen* on the faceplate
   
_3) The device must have a digital output for use with an outboard DAC. It can be toslink, coaxial, or AES/EBU. It doesn’t matter as long as it is digital. This will keep it relevant should the user ever want to upgrade._
   
Standard digital outputs include an optical port as well as a 75ohm RCA jack. It also features RCA and *optical digital outputs, for use with an external DAC.* 
   
Guys, at *1800 USD*, this isnt going to outsell the Marantz or NAD players, but MD seem serious about offering upgrade paths for their kit, and this is no exception. If you consider yourself a 'large A audiophile', that might hold some appeal over the other gear in this thread. Personally, I am more a 'small m music lover', but its good to see another traditional player gettiing on the bandwagon. All we need now is Levinson and Krell to release network players.


----------



## project86

Thanks for that - it was totally not on my radar. Looks nice (but typical pricing for them). The top of the line MD809 with the much larger screen looks like the star of that lineup, but I can only imagine how much it will go for. Those all look to be smaller form factor as well, maybe 8 inches wide or so, which is a plus for me. 
   
  I also just read up on the Ayon S3. Quite a beast at almost $9k - also featuring a 3.5" LCD. I just don't get that choice..... I'm not a fan of Ayon (too much audiophile wackiness for me) so I won't be paying any more attention to that one. 
   
  I'm updating my original posts to finally add my review of the JF Digital HDM-03S. Finally. It's been my main source for months and I haven't had time to do the write up on it. Very cool device with some quirks that I can live with.


----------



## estreeter

Sensational stuff, P86 - I'm grimly determined to keep this thread ticking over even though I think it may have gotten more attention in 'Dedicated Source Components' - I appreciate that you agonized over that decision and I can see why its here with all these $%%#! soundcards.


----------



## estreeter

I've read Chris Connaker's review of the MF M1 CLiC twice now, and for 2K it seems like a very _undercooked_ attempt at getting a network player to market. I'd rather spend the money on beer. 
   
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/439-Musical-Fidelity-M1-CLiC-Universal-Music-Controller-Review


----------



## project86

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Sensational stuff, P86 - I'm grimly determined to keep this thread ticking over even though I think it may have gotten more attention in 'Dedicated Source Components' - I appreciate that you agonized over that decision and I can see why its here with all these $%%#! soundcards.


 
   
   
  Yeah maybe I should have it moved. Who knows. Thanks for the bumps though - it's a labor of love for me even if not many people care to comment. I know it is being read though, over 4k hits. So I'm fine with it.
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I've read Chris Connaker's review of the MF M1 CLiC twice now, and for 2K it seems like a very _undercooked_ attempt at getting a network player to market. I'd rather spend the money on beer.
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/439-Musical-Fidelity-M1-CLiC-Universal-Music-Controller-Review


 
   
  I can appreciate what MF was going for there - I dig the form factor, and I like the idea of having it be your "central hub" with the analog ins and tons of digital ins. It just seems like the implementation was rushed, or not enough beta testing was done. Something like that for $2k is just not acceptable to me - especially when the Squeezebox Touch operates pretty flawlessly for under $300 (granted with less functionality but still).  
   
  Plus I didn't care for their M1 DAC when I heard it, so I'm not thrilled about the DAC section of the CLiC. Maybe they updated it though.


----------



## estreeter

I could be way off beam here, but I get the impression that Antony Michaelson is a somewhat mercurial character - he certainly isn't afraid to do the rounds of various magazines talking up each new release. MF also released new versions of the V-DAC/V-CANS/V-LINK, but thats a topic for another thread.


----------



## project86

Agreed. We give HiFiMAN a hard time for their constant new releases and updates, but MF does the same thing. Maybe worse. I know I'd be mad if I had just purchased the M1 DAC and was stuck with a basic USB implementation, only to have it replaced 6 months later with the M1A and the async connection. Same with the V series components. 
   
  I suspect there is a new M1 CLiC right around the corner with plenty of improvements. I guess that's a good thing for the people who end up with that version. Not so good if you are stuck with the old one. 
   
  I do like some of the older MF gear though. The Tri-Vista 21 DAC was very enjoyable. Same with the A 3.2 CD player. I'd take one of those over the newer M series choices.


----------



## estreeter

Kudos, P86.
   
http://nadelectronics.com/articles/C-446-Forces-Its-Way-Into-Streaming-Audio-Category
   
  Didnt spot that before - well done. To my knowledge, one of very few times I've seen Head-Fi acknowledged on a *major manufacturer's website*, particularly one with no vested interest in the headphone user.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Kudos, P86.
> 
> http://nadelectronics.com/articles/C-446-Forces-Its-Way-Into-Streaming-Audio-Category
> 
> Didnt spot that before - well done. To my knowledge, one of very few times I've seen Head-Fi acknowledged on a *major manufacturer's website*, particularly one with no vested interest in the headphone user.


 
   
  Yay, I'm famous!


----------



## estreeter

Today NAD, tomorrow Poland, right ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Aah, give a Head-Fier a keyboard .;.....


----------



## estreeter

CA Stream Magic 6:
   

   
   
  DAC  Dual Wolfson WM8740 24-bit DACs 
  Digital filter  2nd Generation ATF2 up-sampling to 24-bit/384kHz. 
  Linear Phase, Minimum phase or Steep modes. 
  Analogue filter  2-Pole Dual Differential Bessel Double Virtual Earth Balanced 
  Digital Input  S/PDIF 75 ohms or TOSLink optical 
  USB Audio Input  USB Type B conforming to Audio profile 1.0 or USB Audio profile 
  2.0 (user 1.0 or USB Audio profile 2.0 (user selectable) 
  Analogue audio outputs  *Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA analogue audio outputs *
  Compatibility 
  UPnP 16-24 bit, 32-96kHz 
  Local USB media 16-24 bit, 32-96kHz 
  USB Audio1.0 16-24 bit, 32-96kHz 
  USB Audio 2.0 16-24 bit, 32-192kHz 
*Toslink 16-24 bit, 32-96kHz *
*S/PDIF 16-24 bit, 32-192kHz *
  BT100 Bluetooth receiver:  A2DP plus aptX 
  Audio formats  *WAV, FLAC, AIFF, WMA, MP3, AAC, HE AAC, AAC+, OGG Vorbis*
  Standby power consumption  <0.5W 
   
  Knock yourselves out -
   
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=952
   
  Given that this thread appears to be project86 and myself amusing ourselves, I really wish he would* rescue this thread and move it to 'Dedicated Sources'*,


----------



## project86

I'm not sure I can move it - I suppose I could ask a Mod to do it for me?
   
  To be honest, when I first came up with the idea for this thread I saw a bit of a hole in terms of what type of info was readily available. Audiostream.com was less than two months old and I wasn't sure what to expect from Michael Lavorgna. Turns out he is doing a great job covering similar stuff, therefore taking away some of the passion I had for this thread. 
   
  I do think this thread is still very HeadFi specific since it is focused on devices that fit well in a headphone rig - usable display and front panel controls required. But I also realize that more and more people use the iPad so my requirements are becoming less relevant. 
   
   
   
   
  The Stream Magic 6 makes sense to me - take the NP30, beef up the analog section and DAC section with what is likely amounts to a DacMagic+ (or very similar), and sell it for the appropriate price. The press release specifically mentions building on the lessons learned from the NP30 (which had some nearly fatal quirks from what I've read). If they really did manage to fix all the bugs and such then the Stream Magic 6 could be pretty nice. The NP30 and the DM+ were/are $599 each so the $999 price of the Stream Magic seems about right. 
   
  I'm finding myself highly tempted by the Consonance Reference 7:
   
   
   

   

   

   
  This was apparently announced last year some time but I missed it until recently. It obviously uses the processing module from JF Digital, but goes in a completely new direction for the DAC and analog stage. 6H30 tube output? Yes please! I don't really _need _it at all, but I'm tempted.


----------



## estreeter

Great pickup P86 - Consonance seems to be steadily winning over some of the snobs who wouldnt previously have considered 'China' and 'high end' in the same paragraph, much less the same sentence. It seems that once you start charging serious money for your product, people sit up and  take notice - hmmm .....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Aaah, so much kit, so little in the bank - I look forward to your reviews like a drowning man reaches for a life jacket.


----------



## estreeter

[size=1.9em] Naim ND5 XS[/size]   
  ~2k GBP. 3500 USD
   

   
   
 *[size=small]Specifications[/size]*
 [size=x-small]Type: Network Audio Device
*Digital Inputs: Ethernet, USB, S/PDIF via BNC and RCA and TosLink optical.
 Digital Outputs: S/PDIF via BNC*
 Antenna Inputs: DAB/FM, Wi-Fi (802.11 g or n at 2.4GHz)
 Tuning Range: DAB (Band lll and L Band), FM 87.5-108MHz (FM/DAB version only)
 Outputs: DIN and RCA, 2.1V rms at 1kHz at full level (Fixed)
 Output Impedance: 32 Ohms maximum
 Frequency Response: 10 Hz to 20 kHz (+0.1/-0.5dB)
 THD+N: <0.02%, 10Hz to 20kHz at full level
*Audio Formats Supported: WAV, AIFF and FLAC (up to 24bit/192kHz )
     ALAC (up to 24bit/96kHz) Ogg Vorbis (up to 320bit/s)
     Windows Media-formatted content-9 (up to 320kbit/s)*
     Playlists (M3U, PLS) MP3, M4a (up to 320kbit/s)[/size]
 [size=x-small]iRadio Service Provider: vTuner 5* full service Internet radio (Windows Media-formatted content, MP3 streams, MMS, Ogg Vorbis)
 Power Supply Options: XPS and 555 PS
 Dimensions: 70 x 432 x 301 (HxWxD in mm)
 Price: £1925 in the UK, $3495 in the United States[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]Reviews:[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1211/naim_audio_nd5_xs.htm      [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=8865   [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]http://www.gramophone.co.uk/editorial/naim-nd5-xs-%E2%80%93-almost-but-not-quite-naim%E2%80%99s-best-network-audio-device-unless%E2%80%A6[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]By my count, Naim now have no less than *5 'network ready' sources* - the uber-pricey NDX, the ND5 XS, SuperUniti, Uniti and UnitiQute. Mind-blowing. Sadly, so are there prices - one of the few Naim dealers in Oz prepared to publish his pricing seems quite ecstatic that his customers can now own the SuperUniti / SuperNAIT combination for a mere *10,500 AUD*.  Little wonder the 2K GBP price on this seems to have been greeted with wild enthusiasm. [/size]


----------



## milosz

I've been using Squeezebox players for a long time.  Their DAC and audio stage is not terrible right out of the box, but typically I use an outboard DAC off the SPDIF.
   
  You can listen to tracks from your own server, or to Internet Radio streams, as well as Pandora, LastFM, etc.
   
  I like the server, there are a lot of good plug-ins to do various things.  I currently run the server on Windows 7, but I've run it on XP and Linux, it's all good.  Pretty mature technology, been around for something like 5 years.
   
  When I am doing serious listening, I control the player from my Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Android tablet, it's a great interface device for a music system.  I have 60,000 FLAC tracks stored in a 3 TB RAID 5 array. It's great to "surf" my music collection on the tablet, and listen on my Magneplanar 3.6's.  I can see info about the track, and click on parts of the track info which then take me to more tracks by, for example, the bass player in a given track.  Or I can read a bio of the artist. And of course I can see the cover art.
   
  I can also use my Windows Phone 7 to control the player (there's an app for that,) and there's also a pretty useful remote that is intended to work with the Squeezebox Duo- but which can be used with any Squeezebox.  I use both WiFi and ethernet-connected Squeezeboxes in my various systems.  
   
  You can also use things like Winamp or VLC to listen to files from the server on a computer, etc.  I can also stream my entire collection to my phone, either as full FLAC files or compressed to the MP3 bitrate of my liking.  (Full FLAC requires something like 750k~1 mb of bandwidth, and  carrier promises notwithstanding, you don't always get that from 4g or 3g phones, so I usually use a 256k MP3 to stream to my phone.  It was pretty cool to listen to my music stored in Chicago sitting in a park in Paris.)
   
  Much less costly than Sonos.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Great pickup P86 - Consonance seems to be steadily winning over some of the snobs who wouldnt previously have considered 'China' and 'high end' in the same paragraph, much less the same sentence. It seems that once you start charging serious money for your product, people sit up and  take notice - hmmm .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah the whole issue of "Chi-Fi" acceptance here in the west is very interesting to me. There's probably some interesting psychology involved. Personally I don't care where my gear comes from, nor do I care one bit about the prestige of the brand name. If it works, it works. 
   
  The only problem is that I don't really _need _to upgrade... my JF Digital server has the same functionality, and the only thing I'd gain by getting the Consonance is a great analog output.... but I've already got more hi-end DACs than I can handle. Still, I _want _to upgrade. I guess that's how it goes. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> [size=1.9em] Naim ND5 XS[/size]
> ~2k GBP. 3500 USD
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   Naim and Linn can both be called "pioneers" or "early adopters" in the streaming game. I have no direct experience with their streamers but they look impressive.
   
  Problems: 1) The prices, even for the entry level units, are very much on the high side. 2) It's hard to differentiate one model from the next. The Linn Akurate DS is nearly double the price of the Linn Majik DS, and there's very little information as to what exactly the extra money gets you. It's safe to _assume _that they are based on the architectures of the Majik CD and Akurate CD, meaning one is a step up from the other, but I'd like to know exactly what I was getting for my extra $3k - keeping in mind the plethora of eexceptional quality external DACs available for that amount or even for less. 
   
  The Consonance Reference 7 appears to go for about $3k. Based on specs alone it has a lot more going for it than the Naim or Linn models. But that's usually the case when you compare Chinese firms with well-established western brands.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





project86 said:


> Yeah the whole issue of "Chi-Fi" acceptance here in the west is very interesting to me. There's probably some interesting psychology involved. Personally I don't care where my gear comes from, nor do I care one bit about the prestige of the brand name. If it works, it works.
> 
> The Consonance Reference 7 appears to go for about $3k. Based on specs alone it has a lot more going for it than the Naim or Linn models. But that's usually the case when you compare Chinese firms with well-established western brands.


 
   
  Agree that the Chinese pack a lot into a given casing, even with skilled workers demanding higher wages. I'm old enough to remember when '_Made In Japan'_ was synonymous with crap electronics. then they embraced an American preaching quality control and the rest is history. China's time will come and the same snobs will beat a path to their door. 
   
  Big news here in Oz today according to one of our morning programs - Spotify is finally being offered locally (!). Only took 3 years, but thats the price we pay for being an outpost on the edge of the known world. Amusingly, the reporter chose to highlight Sonos integration as one of the attractions when signing up to Spotify - would be amusing to see the looks on various mum-and-dad faces when they get a look at the sticker price on Sonos' gear. Its a long way from being a household name here.


----------



## estreeter

P86, apologies for taking this slightly OT, but I really hope at least one of these devices proves to be the 'one-box solution' I'm looking for. I spent this evening going over various musings on the issues around jitter emanating from mass-produced (read 'cheap') USB sockets. Its interesting to see how many people assume that their asynch USB DAC is the silver bullet that fixes all of those issues, and equally interesting to see the arguments put up by Audiophilleo and M2Tech.  John Darko claims that DAC makers need to do a USB-to-SPDIF conversion before they can address jitter - he is a complete Audiophilleo fanboy - and it just frustrates the hell out of me. Throw in the noise generated by most computers and *I'm over it* - superior player interfaces notwithstanding. 
   
  All of this brings me to I2S:
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%C2%B2S
   
  I would hope that the companies named in this thread got this right, but I found this snippet kinda interesting:
   
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In audio equipment the I²S is sometimes used as an external link between the CD transport and a separate box DAC, as opposed to purely internal connection within one box player. This is considered, by some audiophiles, to be a higher quality connection than the commonly used AES/EBU or Toslink or S/PDIF standards. There is no standard interconnecting cable for I²S. Some manufacturers provide simply three BNC connectors, an 8P8C ("RJ45") socket or a DE-9 connector. *Others like **Audio Alchemy (now defunct) used DIN connectors*.
-------------------------------------------- end snip ---------------------------------------------------------
   
There IS another company that favours the DIN connector, and that company is Naim. When you think about, its just a simple, secure connnector, but they seem to cop plenty from those who think they should have gone to RCA years ago. If it aint broke, why exactly should Naim try to _fix_ it ?  All I have to do now is get a decent price on the Uniti and leave my PC for ripping and Youtube duties - massive amounts of win there.  




   
  PS  *Mr Darko*, if you honestly expect me to buy a USB-to-SPDIF converter, an SPDIF-to-SPDIF 'dejitterer' *and* a DAC that takes SPDIF input, you are out of your freakin gourd. *I want less boxes on my desk, not MORE !!!*. I understand where you are going, but when I have to pay *4K AUD* (the local distributor's outrageous markup) for the PerfectWave DAC simply to avoid that ridiculous 3-box setup, I will look elsewhere, I'll buy a vinyl rig if thats what it takes - this whole jitter debate is really wearing thin with me. Next you'll be telling us we need to wear a special bracelet to de-ionise the air particles .....


----------



## project86

I don't mind a little off-topic-ness! It's all related info anyway, and I appreciate the discussion.
   
  Async USB _is _interesting. For a moment there, the "magic bullet" mentality was wide spread. Probably still is with plenty of folks. But I go HERE and look at the measurements.... M2Tech hiFace and EVO both have relatively high jitter measurements compared to units from Anedio, Audiophilleo, and others, and also higher than some transports I've seen (including my JF Digital server). So just because it uses an asynchronous connection doesn't mean it is necessarily better than good old fashioned SPDIF. 
   
  I my view, it's a combination of things that add up to the total performance. This assumes of course that you intend to use a transport/seperate DAC type of setup.
   
  First, the transport must deliver a low jitter signal. In transport terms, this could be anywhere in the sub-100 picosecond range. This type of performance would have been considered word class until fairly recently, and was only achieved by high-level (expensive) transports. It's still pretty hard to find relatively speaking. 
   
  Next, the DAC must have good jitter rejection capabilities. Something that can take a decent quality digital signal and spit out a very accurate, very low jitter analog signal. At this point jitter should be down to the sub-20 ps range, maybe even in the low single digits for the best DACs out there.
   
  That's really what we are looking for here. At any point if you have a weakness in that chain, it could certainly be supplemented with additional hardware. So if you don't have a great transport, a USB to SPDIF converter like the Audiophilleo could fill that gap. Same thing if your DAC doesn't have the best jitter reduction capabilities. 
   
  Personally, I don't buy the idea that one necessarily _needs _to have a USB to SPDIF converter in the chain. Nor have I ever had much luck with the "de-jitter" type devices I've tried (I've owned the Perpetual Technologies and Monarchy gear, so I can't speak for all of them out there). I respect Mr. Darko and I don't question that he hears what he hears, or prefers what he prefers.... I just don't have the same experience. 
   
  Part of the issue is that different DACs have different abilities with regards to jitter, and the resulting sound doesn't always go the way you'd think. Take the Audio GD Reference 7 for example - it supposedly uses a DSP unit to reclock all incoming signals to 50 ps. So you'd think that transport quality wouldn't matter much. Yet I (and others) found that feeding it a low jitter signal was extremely important for getting the best sound out of it. Somehow the process for stripping jitter also had some other deleterious affect on the sound, or held it back from the full potential. So you're back to needing a high quality transport. With other DACs like my Violectric V800, it doesn't much care how bad the signal is. Once you reach a certain threshold where you aren't feeding it from a crappy Walmart brand DVD player (for example), it all sounds the same. So whatever their ASRC process is doing when it reclocks and de-jitters, it ends up sounding the same no matter how good or mediocre it was when it started. I suppose you could think of this in a negative way, like the V800 is holding back the potential of the better transports (while the Reference 7 isn't)... it's a matter of perspective I guess. 
   
  There are multiple companies that I've seen using some version of an I2S connection - Ayon, Northstar, Audio Alchemy, PS Audio, Muse, Stello, Empirical.... I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting. I2S (aka *I*nter *I*C* S*ound) was originally developed as an internal interface - so there is no specification for the type of connection used. That's why you see all types of cables used among the various brands. SPDIF is basically the equivalent but was designed for external (box to box) transmission. The key difference is the SPDIF encoding done on the "sending" end, and then the decoding done at the "receiving" end. If both of those are done well then the difference is small to non-existent. Also, I2S is certainly not a free lunch, and has many inherent difficulties of its own. People who hold up I2S as some type of magic bullet are likely confused or else trying to sell you something....
   
  Trying Naim could be the way to go. Especially if you can find a local dealer who will let you try it out for a while in your own home. With all the considerations regarding technology, features, and of course sound quality, I find that the user experience is still one of the key aspects in either liking or hating these devices. So it would be great to "live with it" for a few weeks and see what you think.


----------



## estreeter

Thanks for that, P86 - incredibly detailed response and it should be a sticky IMO. 
   
  The issue, as I see it, is that JD feels that the USB ports on most consumer-grade mobos are as cheaply implemented as the manufacturers could possibly make them, and I agree - having had to repair PCs in an office environment at one stage in my (ha!) career. What I find interesting is that many of the recent DAC releases that feature both USB and SPDIF connections seem to have reviewers reaching for the $2 USB cable after 20 or so minutes listening via SPDIF. I also recall some, ahem. lively discussions at Computer Audiophile with designers like Gordon from Wavelength posting extremely technical responses to the time-honoured 'SPDIF is better !' mantra. I dont hear any of that anymore - dont even hear anything about Firewire DACs - whether this is 'Beta vs VHS Mark II', I cant say, but those with the expensive adaptive DACs seem to be sticking with them while new buyers flock to the Asynch brigade. Like the Sabre chip, manufacturers climbed over the top of one another to be buzzword compliant.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My little rant aside - insomnia the culprit - I still want less boxes not more. It occurred to me seconds after posting that a DIN connector is no better than XLR, and there are several streaming devices in the Naim bracket with XLR-out. JD alluded to Squeezebox pouring development dollars into their own jitter management, and he claims that the next version of the Touch will be a significantly better transport - interesting times, and I'm in no hurry to throw my hat into the ring with things like that happening behind closed doors. Linn were right - its all about the source.


----------



## project86

I guess I can see the point there - cheap USB out on the average laptop or desktop unit is probably not optimal. That's why I've historically built my own, using the SOtM tX-USB card. I admit though that I've never sat down and done a direct A/B comparison. It would be interesting to see how the SOtM USB connection fares against standard USB out from a decent quality motherboard, and then also against a basic Dell/HP/Compaq type integrated USB. 
   
  The more I look, the more there are interesting streaming options to be found. Which is cool, but also means I can't hope to possibly keep this thread up to date in terms of keeping track of the significant choices. Oh well. Here are a few that capture my interest, though none of them meet my arbitrary "headphone system" requirements of having a display and usable front panel controls:
   

   
*Auraliti PK90*
  $749
  Uses SOtM tX-USB card for USB out, very simple and compact form factor. Strictly plays files off a connected hard drive rather than doing the UPnP/DLNA thing.
   
   

*Sonore Signature music server*
  $2499 and up 
  Also uses the SOtM USB card, or else available with a Firewire output, this unit has a built in HD, runs VortexBox Engine so it will automatically rip and tag your discs for you. 
   
   

*SalkStream Player*
  $1295
  USB output only, I believe it runs VortexBox but is somehow not "officially" on board with the VortexBox people. I could be wrong.
   
   
  I can see how people have a hard time with this stuff. For example, the Salk and the Auraliti units both seem nearly identical - what sets them apart, other than price? Why choose one over the other? The Sonore is way more expensive but also does way more stuff, so I guess that would be a matter of considering how valuable that extra "stuff" is to you. 
   
  Personally (and I know I'm probably in the minority here) I still like the concept of my JF Digital, or the Consonance D Linear 7/Reference 7 units - all in one, stand alone devices which _can _network but don't _have _to, and don't need a separate monitor for display. My listening area is on the far end of the house away from my router. WiFi works but isn't reliable for anything above 24/96 (and even that gets spotty sometimes). I'm too lazy to run Ethernet under the house, so I like the fact that I can still play a really high bitrate 24/192 file without issue - even if someone else in the house is streaming HD Netflix or otherwise burning up bandwidth. There aren't a ton of alternatives that can do the same - Bryston BDP-1 will do it but you're stuck with a tiny 2-line display.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





milosz said:


> I've been using Squeezebox players for a long time.  Their DAC and audio stage is not terrible right out of the box, but typically I use an outboard DAC off the SPDIF.
> 
> You can listen to tracks from your own server, or to Internet Radio streams, as well as Pandora, LastFM, etc.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Somehow I missed this post - thanks for describing your setup. I'd say you are definitely a power user.
   
  I still really enjoy the Squeezebox Touch - it's amazing for the price, and you can really play around with it to make it even better. I'm considering "maxing" mine out with an aftermarket PSU and hardware mods (possibly from Bolder), in addition to the Soundcheck tweaks and the Enhanced Digital Output. USB out to an Async DAC already sounds amazing, so I wonder what (if any) difference I will hear.


----------



## estreeter

I think I can see one of the reasons why the Sonore might be considerably more expensive - it uses a case I was very interested in until I specced one and realised I would be better off just buying a SuperUniti (!):
   
http://atechfabrication.com/products/HeatSync_2800HP_Mini-Client.htm
   
  Fantastically configurable, but definitely not cheap. I just specced the base casing with a single-color logo and it came to ~800USD - I expect that Sonore can get a better deal, but its still an expensive start point. That said, aesthetically it leaves many of its competitors in the dust. 
   
  If we go back to earlier incarnations, I've always considered the 'headless Mac Mini' a good option for basic 'jukebox' duties - once you get it set up to start iTunes automatically on boot and shuffle through your playlist, its rock solid in my experience. CEntrance might have overdone the 'me too' styling on the DACMini, but that would be an 'invisible' stack with a pair of Quad 9L Actives or similar. As a network streaming solution, its very basic and I expect that most of us would end up doing what I did - reconnecting the monitor and using it as a computer. 
   
  As you said, there are so many options out there, and I expect them to come thick and fast from here.


----------



## project86

Thanks for the link - I configured a system and it came rather close to the price being charged for the Sonore setup. So while expensive, the Sonore seems like a rather good bargain. And the case does look very nice. That heatpipe cooling system looks great.
   
  I'm curious how much of a difference in sound quality is actually achieved by using something like that compared to the basic VortexBox appliance ($500) or the CAPS server ($1500). We assume (myself included) that care needs to be taken for the USB output, power supply, etc, but I admit that I haven't done specific comparisons to see how that all plays out. 
   
   
   
   
  I would imagine that most high end companies who currently make CD or universal players are rapidly working on bringing a streaming device to market. If they aren't, they should be.


----------



## estreeter

Spent some time yesterday exploring Chris Connaker's latest incarnation of Computer Audiophile - his organisational skills are exemplary and I really enjoy the amount of effort he puts into each review. Downsides, IMO, are but two:
   
  - as the name suggests, its all about playing music from your computer - be it Windows, Linux or Mac - and he appears to have zero interest in the streaming devices discussed here, I think he does like  the  Auraliti and one or two other 'dedicated server' options, but none of the Marantz/NAD/Naim/CA crop. 
   
  - when he rebuilt the site, he made no attempt to ensure that old links were forwarded to anything other than a '404' page - having been in a similar position in the past, I know its mongrel of a job but I felt Chris could have put a little more effort into ensuring that people clicking on a link were given something better than 'file not found'.
   
  I joined CA a couple of years back, but many of the threads were so jam-packed with tech stuff on jitter and associated 'invisible but hotly debated' stuff that I lost interest. Time to rekindle the fire, methinks.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Spent some time yesterday exploring Chris Connaker's latest incarnation of Computer Audiophile - his organisational skills are exemplary and I really enjoy the amount of effort he puts into each review. Downsides, IMO, are but two:
> 
> - as the name suggests, its all about playing music from your computer - be it Windows, Linux or Mac - and he appears to have zero interest in the streaming devices discussed here, I think he does like  the  Auraliti and one or two other 'dedicated server' options, but none of the Marantz/NAD/Naim/CA crop.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is where I feel the need to put up a disclaimer - as a contributor to InnerFidelity, I'm sort of associated with Audiostream by logical extension. Audiostream of course is something like a direct competitor to Computer Audiophile. Not exactly, but maybe as close as it gets in the specialized world of HiFi websites. Everything I say here is my own view, not related to any of those associations, yadda yadda yadda. 
   
  There's a lot to like about Computer Audiophile. I've lurked there off and on, and appreciate the community full of knowledgeable folks like Steve Nugent and Gordon Rankin. I don't always agree 100% with their philosophy on audio design, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy their posts anyway. 
   
  I dig the format of CA - it kind of reminds me of this forum actually, where you have an initial review followed by lots of discussion, alternative experiences with other users, etc. At first it seemed kind of limited because Chris was the only "voice" there doing the reviews (though now they have a female reviewer as well), but once you get into the comments and forums, you find a lot more perspectives too. I think that's a good thing.
   
  They seem to attract a certain type of demographic; I'd say the average CA poster has way more disposable income than the average HeadFi poster, and is probably older as well. That's why they are able to try a lot of this high end gear so easily. Also interesting about the demographic - from what I've seen, most folks there are big cable believers. It's interesting because at InnerFidelity, we seem to attract comments from readers who are very "objectivist" and don't find cable upgrades convincing. Over at CA you have some obviously well educated forum members, yet they mostly believe in cables making an audible difference. This includes Rankin and other industry guys. I'm not making a judgment on this either way, just stating that I find it interesting. 
   
  Switching topics, I forgot to mention the new Wyred 4 Sound unit seems interesting. And then there's the Olive models, which appear well done yet somehow largely escape being taken seriously by most audiophiles. I wonder why that is.


----------



## estreeter

At the risk of getting myself into trouble, I can only offer this - when you have a vested interest in selling high-end gear, it makes sense that you enjoy the Kool-Aid.
   
  Real world beckons.


----------



## project86

estreeter said:


> At the risk of getting myself into trouble, I can only offer this - when you have a vested interest in selling high-end gear, it makes sense that you enjoy the Kool-Aid.
> 
> Real world beckons.




No comment on that....

I've decided to pick up an Auraliti PK90 server as well as the NuForce linear PSU that goes with it. It does USB out through a SoTM card, so I'll use it as my reference source to feed USB DACs. I think I'll still keep my JF Digital unit for an SPDIF source since it remains the best I've heard. 

The Auraliti is priced way less than similar competitors.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> At the risk of getting myself into trouble, I can only offer this - when you have a vested interest in selling high-end gear, it makes sense that you enjoy the Kool-Aid.
> 
> Real world beckons.


 
  Someone drank the kool-aid, and then jumped in the pool


----------



## project86

I do think it is fair to point out that Chris does not make any money from the C.A.P.S server. Or at least not directly. He simply configured it and releases the parts list, kind of like an open source project. So that's at least one commercial opportunity that he has deliberately not cashed in on. He gets credit for that in my book.


----------



## estreeter

I meant that his advertising revenue relies on his advertisers continuing to sell kit - wouldnt be much point to advertising on his site otherwise, I'm not criticising Chris - he has been a vocal advocate for a device that many 'big A' audiophiles would turn their noses up at - the Squeezebox Touch - but the majority of his C.A.S.H. list is aimed at folk with a little more disposable income than your average Head-Fier. OK, a lot more disposable income than cheapskates like me !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm not seeing particularly deep pockets on AudioKarma - at least not in terms of wanting to stay on the bleeding edge - but CA seems to have some incredibly deep pockets, Hard to imagine how much money these folk must have had when the economy was buoyant - half their luck.


----------



## project86

I imagine it's tough doing what he does as kind of a "one man show". At InnerFidelity, Tyll gets to be insulated from the whole advertising aspect - Source Interlink Media handles all that on a corporate level. Contrast that with 6Moons or CA where you may be reading a review of a product, and seeing prominent advertising for said product (or a direct competitor), on the same page. I can see how that would make things difficult as far as maintaining objectivity. I've seen some good and some bad examples on both of those sites so I'm not calling them out or anything. Just saying it would be tough.
   
  Back on topic - I've got the NuForce LPS-1 linear PSU on the way, and should be able to order the Auraliti PK-90 soon. Kind of excited about it. I know it breaks my own rules about having a display and user controls on the front panel... but that's OK. 
   
  I found an interesting discussion at the Asylum about the Cary MS-1 server. $2500 for what comes close to being an off the shelf unit, except for maybe the enclosure. One that doesn't seem to have any premium hardware in terms of signal - USB and SPDIF are from the integrated motherboard chipset. Not that impressive, though I suppose someone with an all Cary system can afford to pay that.


----------



## estreeter

I strongly suspect that we will see more 'badge-engineering' like the Cary example you've raised - I also wonder how serious some of the established audio companies are about embracing the technology. Kudos to Marantz/NAD/CA for releasing dedicated streamers that, at least from the photos, should integrate nicely into a rack full of similar mid-fi goodies. Received an interesting PM on the background to Cary's Nighthawk headphone amp - I cant divulge the contents, but lets just say a headphone amp wasn't on their radar until very recently - perhaps the streamer you mention is another device out of 'left field' ?
   
  I look forward to your impressions of the Auraliti.  <insert drool emoticon>


----------



## project86

I see it as a marketing thing, somewhat like the current headphone market. With the economy in a slump pretty much everywhere in the world, these companies that sell totally superfluous items (which, if we are being honest, is what audio gear really is) have to find a way to stay afloat. I don't believe they can do that merely by releasing yet another tube integrated or set of monoblocks with a 5 or 6 figure price tag. So they go where the money is.
   
  Marketing research shows that headphones are the largest growing segment in the audio world. Music servers/streamers/players are probably high on the list as well. So you get a Cary music server, or headphones from companies like PSB and Focal. That doesn't necessarily make them bad - I've heard good things about the PSB M4U2. But us HeadFiers are a tough crowd who are always looking for the best deals, and are quick to dismiss things that don't measure up. But think of how many people are on Audiogon who _CAN _afford a $2500 Cary MS-1, like it was pocket change.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





project86 said:


> But us HeadFiers are a tough crowd who are always looking for the best deals, and are quick to dismiss things that don't measure up.


 
   
  Correction: many headfi'ers are quick to dismiss the cheap, and praise sponsor's products no matter how bad they are when tested.
   
  Just putting it out there


----------



## project86

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Correction: many headfi'ers are quick to dismiss the cheap, and praise sponsor's products no matter how bad they are when tested.
> 
> Just putting it out there


 
   
  Unfortunately that is true. Streaming devices are a relatively new market but already we are seeing some pretty outlandish stuff coming out.
   
  Prediction - look for more and more "analog" companies releasing multi-thousand dollar devices, many with tubes, zero negative feedback, that sort of thing. They are coming. Some are already here (Ayon S3 for example).


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

The comment was more towards the general industry as a whole, if it isn't expensive then it's a POS. With that being said I was quite surprised with Jude's review of the thumb-DAC, $250 is pretty reasonable even for entry-level converters. And the fact he said LCD-3's and HD650's were able to be driven is astonishing, combined with 88.2 compatibility? $250 is a steal.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> The comment was more towards the general industry as a whole, if it isn't expensive then it's a POS. With that being said I was quite surprised with Jude's review of the thumb-DAC, $250 is pretty reasonable even for entry-level converters. And the fact he said LCD-3's and HD650's were able to be driven is astonishing, combined with 88.2 compatibility? $250 is a steal.


 
   
   
  True, I agree to a large extent. There is some extremely good gear out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The Emotiva airmotiv5 active monitors are down to under $400 with their current promo, which is a killer deal. The Sansa Clip+ is a steal for a quality little player that can do Rockbox. Low end IEMs (like the $25 NuForce NE-600x for example) sound better than ever. The Squeezebox Touch is an excellent streaming device for $299. There are plenty of other examples. It's a great time to be an audio enthusiast.


----------



## johnnyjazz

Hi! Nice to see this post about streaming media. I'm running a modest music server at home, which is like a diy NAS with two routers, one is working as a wifi repeater wit[size=x-small]h a DD-WRT firmware, using an Ipod Touch as a receiver with PlugPlayer (great app, by the way). I really like this setup because most of my collection is in flac and I don't have to deal with iTunes to listen to this files, just open plugplayer and play and the sound quality is great for me. The thing is the battery of the Touch, I`m worried that this setup may kill the battery life of this device soon because of the abuse of the wifi. I don't do a battery test, but maybe it last like 10 hours or so, with the wifi on and in sleep mode. Any of you have some idea about battery life if you stream music a lot?[/size]


----------



## project86

Quote: 





johnnyjazz said:


> Hi! Nice to see this post about streaming media. I'm running a modest music server at home, which is like a diy NAS with two routers, one is working as a wifi repeater wit[size=x-small]h a DD-WRT firmware, using an Ipod Touch as a receiver with PlugPlayer (great app, by the way). I really like this setup because most of my collection is in flac and I don't have to deal with iTunes to listen to this files, just open plugplayer and play and the sound quality is great for me. The thing is the battery of the Touch, I`m worried that this setup may kill the battery life of this device soon because of the abuse of the wifi. I don't do a battery test, but maybe it last like 10 hours or so, with the wifi on and in sleep mode. Any of you have some idea about battery life if you stream music a lot?[/size]


 
   
   
  What a coincidence - I'm just in the middle of re-purposing an old router to be used as a wireless bridge. That way I can get an Ethernet connection to the corner of my house where the main equipment is, without having to run actual cable under the floor. I got DD-WRT flashed on there but ran out of time before I could finish.
   
  So to clarify - you are using the Touch with headphones? 
   
  I think I get about 10 hours use (give or take) out of my Touch or iPad, moderate use with WiFi on. I get a lot more when using them as just a remote control for a streaming device - I only charge every once in a while in those cases.


----------



## johnnyjazz

Yes, I'm using the Touch with headphones. And I did the same thing, using an old router as a bridge with the dd-wrt firmware in order to have a good signal in the place of the living room where I like to sit and listen to music. I'm really pleased with the results, you have access to your entire collection without any lag and in lossless quality. The only issue is the battery


----------



## project86

Quote: 





johnnyjazz said:


> Yes, I'm using the Touch with headphones. And I did the same thing, using an old router as a bridge with the dd-wrt firmware in order to have a good signal in the place of the living room where I like to sit and listen to music. I'm really pleased with the results, you have access to your entire collection without any lag and in lossless quality. The only issue is the battery


 
   
  I don't really see any way around that. You could get one of those external battery booster devices that plug in the the bottom of your Touch and top off the charge. But those add bulk and are not really ideal for daily use. Too bad Apple doesn't do user-replaceable batteries. A high capacity extended life battery would probably do the trick for you.
   
  Are you stationary when you listen? Maybe just having a dock, to set the Touch on and charge it while you listen, could be the answer.


----------



## johnnyjazz

Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I'll try with an external battery for occasional use, only when is really necessary, for example in the mittle of a great album! How about your router setup with DD-WRT? Is working fine??


----------



## project86

Quote: 





johnnyjazz said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I'll try with an external battery for occasional use, only when is really necessary, for example in the mittle of a great album! How about your router setup with DD-WRT? Is working fine??


 
  No problem.
   
  I never finished my project. Too busy. And I think I may have forgotten my login password to the routers... so it requires a reset, making it a slightly bigger project. Oh well, I'll get there.


----------



## zzffnn

^ I am taking a similar route as *johnnyjazz *and* project86*.
   
  A NAS streaming flac to one or more music player will be very nice (and potentially cheaper). My approach is to use a iPhone alone when I want to go portable; when I am stationary, I will dock the iPhone to output digital to external DAC/amp.
   
  I opened a specific thread at the Portable Source Gear forum to gather user experiences, please kindly comment there:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/620238/synology-ds212j-nas-streaming-flac-to-iphone-ipad-or-android-portables


----------



## zzffnn

I saw this tiny CloudFTP device. It is only $99, truely portable (powered by battery), can work as USB host and power an external hard drive and stream music/movie via FTP to IOS or Android portables.
   
  The only cons is that a 3rd party app is needed to play flac (GoodPlayer should work). I will look into this further.
   



   
  ^
  Edit: This device may not work for streaming lossless music as it has a streaming speed cap of 400 kbps. I just talked to tech support of CloudFTP. I do not think it can convert flac to mp3 on-the-go either.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> I saw this tiny CloudFTP device. It is only $99, truely portable (powered by battery), can work as USB host and power an external hard drive and stream music/movie via FTP to IOS or Android portables.
> 
> The only cons is that a 3rd party app is needed to play flac (GoodPlayer should work). I will look into this further.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for that. I was wondering what the speeds were like, and then you updated with that info. The concept is still good and if they could get around that limit it would be a killer tool.


----------



## zzffnn

^ Yeah, that ClouFTP would be a dream without that 400 Kbps speed cap. I would not mind twice of its current size, just remove the speed cap please.

There are also that VortexBox NAS/automatic CD ripper and those Koss Striva wifi headphones, although they are designed for different purposes.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> ^ Yeah, that ClouFTP would be a dream without that 400 Kbps speed cap. I would not mind twice of its current size, just remove the speed cap please.
> There are also that VortexBox NAS/automatic CD ripper and those Koss Striva wifi headphones, although they are designed for different purposes.


 
   
  The Koss Striva is a trip. I can't decide if it is a terrible idea or a brilliant one. Or maybe both? I assume it will be like most other Koss designs, as in it will come and go with little attention.


----------



## zzffnn

I guess the Koss Striva is a good idea at its infancy. Personally, I would not pay $500 for its limited existing features. At $500, I would like to see a portable remote (or app) to navigat among albums, sound quality that rivals V MODA M80s, MOG and Spotify integration, better looks and maybe 4G connection/reception.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> I guess the Koss Striva is a good idea at its infancy. Personally, I would not pay $500 for its limited existing features. At $500, I would like to see a portable remote (or app) to navigat among albums, sound quality that rivals V MODA M80s, MOG and Spotify integration, better looks and maybe 4G connection/reception.


 
   
  Exactly. For a little bit more $, I could just get the Sennheiser RS220 and have much better sound quality, while still being free to roam. That's in theory anyway, I don't know how well the RS220 works either.


----------



## zzffnn

I have a successful story to share on the topic:
   
  I have used:
  flac files on Patriot Gauntlet Node (portable battery-powered NAS) -> SAMBA streaming -> AcePlayer Pro app -> iPhone 3GS w/ IOS 5.
   
  This is the portable NAS Patriot Gauntlet Node (PGN), whose size is a little bigger than Objective2 amp or HM801:

   
   
  The above setting can (pros):
  1) store and play up to 2TB of flac
  2) output digital (via Pure i20 coax/optical) to an external DAC
  3) stream 24 bit / 96 kHz flac songs (the largest flac I tried was 172mb in size and 3058 kbps). But I am not sure if down-sampling occurs during playback.
  4) perform reasonably like an iTouch minus album art (can do auto next, next/previous song, fast forward/rewind, background play with screen off).
  5) display all album structures correctly (including sub folders).
   
  The cons/bad:
  1) no album art
  2) no gapleess playback. Gap is 1.5 - 3 seconds long depending on the size/bitrate of flac. Gap is longer than Rockboxed Clip during playback.
  3) start-up time is 2-3 minutes in total. The NAS takes about 30 sec to boot to NAS mode, then you may need to set up bridge mode using the Gauntlet Connect app (if you want streaming music and internet at the same time on your iPhone). Without setting up bridge mode, PGN still works as a music/file server.
  4) when screen is off, iPhone 3GS (IOS 5) will stop playing, so screen has to stay on. Although the app can run in the background w/o problem.
 5) There is slight/discrete noise produced during screen activities (e.g., scrolling down a long page). High resolution playback seems to be affected more.
   
  For details, please read:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/620238/1000gb-flac-on-the-go-successfully-streaming-to-iphone-ipad-android-portables


----------



## hmouse

Seems QLS is about to release the new QA660: http://www.qlshifi.com/wzcp/qa660.htm (cannot find an English version of this page). Support reading from SD card, can play WAV (up to 24/192)/FLAC/APE/MP3. An interesting contender.


----------



## project86

Quote: 





hmouse said:


> Seems QLS is about to release the new QA660: http://www.qlshifi.com/wzcp/qa660.htm (cannot find an English version of this page). Support reading from SD card, can play WAV (up to 24/192)/FLAC/APE/MP3. An interesting contender.


 
   
  I spoke with Clark at QLS about that and last I heard it was due to release in October. Sounds like they are on schedule. There's also a similar QA860 model, which has a built in headphone amp as well as analog outputs with volume control. That model will come out a few months later. 
   
  In case anyone is still following this thread, I've kind of stopped trying new streaming devices for the time being. Too busy with other reviews, both here and at InnerFidelity. Also I'm loving my new Auraliti PK90 (powered by a NuForce LPS-1 power supply) so much that I think I'm done searching. But when I do have time I'd like to check out more options (such as the QLS models) just for review purposes.


----------



## glcohen

Thanks for your excellent review of the NAD C446 tuner.  However, if you did have a Last.FM subscription you would have found that you loose the login (username and password) information as soon as you turn it off at the mains.


----------



## project86

glcohen said:


> Thanks for your excellent review of the NAD C446 tuner.  However, if you did have a Last.FM subscription you would have found that you loose the login (username and password) information as soon as you turn it off at the mains.




Interesting, thanks for posting. So you can turn the unit off without issue, but if you unplug it or flip the switch on a power strip, it loses all your settings - is that correct?


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> I have a successful story to share on the topic:
> 
> I have used:
> flac files on Patriot Gauntlet Node (portable battery-powered NAS) -> SAMBA streaming -> AcePlayer Pro app -> iPhone 3GS w/ IOS 5.


 
   
  It doesnt seem to have its own dedicated display, from what I can see in the photos. project86 was very specific re his requirements back in the OP:
   
  1) The device needs to handle FLAC files. I consider this the standard for serious listening.
   
  2)* It needs to have a dedicated display, capable of file navigation and most other basic functions. The majority of us don’t have (or want to have) a monitor in our listening systems.*
   
  3) The device must have a digital output for use with an outboard DAC. It can be toslink, coaxial, or AES/EBU. It doesn’t matter as long as it is digital. This will keep it relevant should the user ever want to upgrade.
   
  Some might argue that using a tablet/smartphone as your 'display' is an even better solution, but I dont think your PGN meets the criteria. P86 ?


----------



## glcohen

Correct.  All my equipment is switched on and off at the mains by my pre amp so this is a major annoyance.


----------



## zzffnn

estreeter said:


> It doesnt seem to have its own dedicated display, from what I can see in the photos. project86 was very specific re his requirements back in the OP:
> 
> 1) The device needs to handle FLAC files. I consider this the standard for serious listening.
> 
> ...




^ iPhone does 1) and 2) (iPhone receives and plays flac files using an AcePlayerPro program, as well as offering sufficient display for my use - album / song name and play/forward/rewind/stop). 

An iPhone dock like Pure i20, together with iPhone, can fulfil 3) (i.e., output coaxial or optical digital signal to an external DAC, for example my Gamma2 DAC). 

I am using this rig (PGN+iPhone 3GS) portably in real life; They would not stay with me if they do not play flac or have no display (who would want such a device without display?). Please read details in my own thread (especially post #2 and page 5-6), which can be found in my signature.


----------



## glcohen

I have just heard from NAD that in their future software release for the C446 the Last.fm logon will stay in memory even after a switch off !


----------



## project86

I sort of broke my own rule (about having a front panel display and controls) when I got the Auraliti PK90 music server. It's interesting how much of a different experience it can be when you don't have to push buttons or look at the device that is playing the music. There's sort of a mental disconnect: I _know _that the iPad is not really playing the music, but somehow I now associate it with that high level of sound quality. Then when I use it from the headphone jack, I'm severely disappointed!
   
  I'm getting used to the whole "tablet as remote" thing though (using mPad or sometimes just NeoMPC through a web browser) and I really like the simplicity of the PK90. And the price. I can't believe this little thing isn't more popular.


----------



## hugol

Has anybody heard something about the Denon DNP-F109 ? I just saw it in a recent visit to a German audio store. The unit is part of a _micro/mini system_ D-F109 but it can be purchased separately.
   

  As far as I understand, it fulfils all the requirements of the devices that are being reviewed here. It is priced at 399 euros on the German website of Denon. 
   
  Some highlights:
   
     

 Network audio player with Wi-Fi and Ethernet connectivity
 DLNA 1.5 certified for reliable audio streaming and wide
 compatibility
 AirPlay direct music streaming from iPad, iPhone, iPod touch
 and iTunes library
 “Play to” from WMP12 or higher
 Supports WMA / MP3 / WAV 192/24 / AAC / ALAC
 FLAC HD 192/24
 Internet radio by vTuner and support of
 Last.fm* online service
 Direct play for iPod and iPhone via rear USB
 Coaxial digital and analogue output
 Denon Remote App for iOS and Android
 Support Wi-Fi Multimedia (WMM)
   
  more info: http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/pages/Product-Detail.aspx?CatId=systems&SubId=minimicro&ProductId=DNPF109
   
  Any thoughts?


----------



## project86

Hey, that _does _look pretty nice. It checks a lot of the boxes that Denon's prior unit (the DNP-720AE) was missing such as hi-res FLAC support and coaxial output (that unit only had Toslink). I'll see if I can find the time to check it out - paired with the matching DCD-F109 CD player for those of us who still spin CDs, and a nice DAC and headphone amp, that could make a killer minimalist setup. 
   
  I had zero luck trying to contact Denon for review on the older model though. So we'll see.


----------



## ELCH

Hi, great article with lots of very useful information! Many thanks!
  Did you ever test the Pioneer N-50? It might be a great choice, specially in terms of having the option to use it as an excellent external D/A converter via USB connection.
  Please also compare to the Marantz NA-7004.
  BR, /G


----------



## ELCH

Hi project86, after my first reply today I saw that you already own the Pioneer N-50 and announced testing it. I could not find any review about it from you. What´s your opinion and experiences with the N-50 please? In case you already put that out on the web could you pls send the link to that location? Thanks.
  cheers, /G
   
  On 1/26/12 you wrote: I've got the new Pioneer N-50 "Audiophile Networked Audio Player" on the way to me for review. Looking forward to checking it out.


----------



## project86

My N-50 review is in there on the first page. But I recognize that it can be difficult to wade through all the pictures. HERE is a direct link to the review in a different location, perhaps a bit easier to read. Unfortunately I haven't heard the Marantz unit so I can't comment on that.


----------



## timoxx4

Hi all,
   
New to the scene here and was just wondering if anyone could help me with any suggestions for one of these units or something like it for my needs ?
   
I have just got me some BEYERDYNAMIC DT770 80Ohm Cans and i am just finding out my Cowon J3 mp3 player doesn't sound good enough. Not detailed enough. My PC headphone out sounds heaps better and that's just onboard sound no sound card. But i am after something i can listen to in bed away from the PC so am interested in one of these media players.
   
Ok so i am looking for any suggestions for something that can play and sort through files from an USB flash drive mostly. Doesn't need to be a streaming device at all or connect to the network. But i do like a lcd screen to sort through my audio tracks and such.
   
Needs to have some way of adjusting the Bass and treble. I am a Bass head and to me even the DT770 80Ohm i like to boost the bass and treble still with anything i have it plugged into. So yeah an EQ is a must for me.
   
All in one unit would be great. Media player, DAC and headphone amp in one with headphone out.
   
Budget would be around the $1000 - $1500 mark if i can source one locally in Australia.
   
Thanks for any help,
Tim.


----------



## zzffnn

^ Welcome to Headfi.

If all your music can fit into a 64GB microSDXC, I would suggest to use your Cowon J3 with the SD card and add a headphone amp. You can still use EQ of J3. Most amps do not offer treble boost. An amp should add "details" to your DT770s.

I suggest getting an Objective2 amp with ODAC integrated (cost is less than $350 USD). It is portable, battery powered and can also enhance your computer's sound significantly. If you use a Samsung S3 to run an external hard drive through a powered USB hub and output digital through USB, an ODAC/O2 can work as DAC/amp to enhance sound as well. With J3 and EQ, you can still use the O2's amp portion to amp J3's headphone output.

If you have to get an amp with treble boost, Fiio E17 likely does that. But I heard it is not as good as O2/ODAC.


----------



## ELCH

Dear project86,
  many thanks, your article is of great value to me. It´s brilliant and finally summarizes my impression on the N-50, expecially that it is a great DAC and looses somewhat as soon as you are using the streaming opportunities of the system ("A few limitations of note" in your review). Especially that it is restricted to some file formats here and not covering AIFF (for me personally that is what I would have needed) is some kind of draw back.
  Now facing DACs only and leaving the streaming stuff behind it would be great to hear your opinion her: How do you feel about the TEAC UD H-01 DAC? Does it come up with the same sound quality than the N-50 (used with USB connection as a pure DAC)? In terms of the 24/192 capabilities over USB the seem to be the same. But what about the final sound?
I am thinking to go for the TEAC UD H-01 or a Cambridge DACmagic (plus) ... instead of the N-50 since I am looking for best performance and a DAC (over USB) primarily.
In case you want to read a german article (the best german N-50 article I could find) which is worth reading about the N-50, please visit: 
  http://www.hifitest.de/test/dlna-_netzwerk-_clients_server_player/pioneer-n-50_5834.php#. 
  Sorry that review is not written in english. Maybe an online translator can do. It pretty much comes to the same conclusions than you do though your description is much more detailled and accurate.
Many thanks, BR, Elch


----------



## timoxx4

Quote: 





zzffnn said:


> ^ Welcome to Headfi.
> If all your music can fit into a 64GB microSDXC, I would suggest to use your Cowon J3 with the SD card and add a headphone amp. You can still use EQ of J3. Most amps do not offer treble boost. An amp should add "details" to your DT770s.
> I suggest getting an Objective2 amp with ODAC integrated (cost is less than $350 USD). It is portable, battery powered and can also enhance your computer's sound significantly. If you use a Samsung S3 to run an external hard drive through a powered USB hub and output digital through USB, an ODAC/O2 can work as DAC/amp to enhance sound as well. With J3 and EQ, you can still use the O2's amp portion to amp J3's headphone output.
> If you have to get an amp with treble boost, Fiio E17 likely does that. But I heard it is not as good as O2/ODAC.


 
Hi zzffnn,
   
Yeah already got an O2 amp (no odac though) and i find it didn't sound any different with the Cowon J3. I think the J3 is just not good enough. It suppresses all the details in the music. I have messed with all the EQ settings and BBE it has to offer with no improvement. I have an Archos android tablet and with it connected to the O2 sounds a lot better than the J3 ? Heaps more detail. Plus the background hiss that's present in the J3 is not there with the Android tablet even at MAX volume on O2 and tablet. J3 has very loud hiss when connected to O2 amp. Its just not that good of a player i don't think. All the hype talked about them i am just not hearing it. Sounds a bit rubbish compared to my PC and cheap low grade tablet.
   
So i am after something a LOT LOT better. Not portable. Something really HiFi with much better sound.
   
I am finding a lot of these streaming devices don't seem to offer any Bass/treble controls though which is a bit of a deal breaker for me ? Or else i might have got the Pioneer N-50.
   
I also thought about something like a squeezebox connected to a separate DAC then to my O2. But i couldn't find any DAC's with Bass/Treble controls either ? Not sure if the squeeze box would have Bass/Treble control out its digital outs either ?
   
Only other option i could think of would be a preamp after the DAC squeezebox combo ? That's getting to be a lot of extra devices though and i don't think i could afford all that or cope with all the stuff to power up and down. Just a one or two box solution is all i was after but doesn't seem to exist ?


----------



## project86

Quote: 





elch said:


> Dear project86,
> many thanks, your article is of great value to me. It´s brilliant and finally summarizes my impression on the N-50, expecially that it is a great DAC and looses somewhat as soon as you are using the streaming opportunities of the system ("A few limitations of note" in your review). Especially that it is restricted to some file formats here and not covering AIFF (for me personally that is what I would have needed) is some kind of draw back.
> Now facing DACs only and leaving the streaming stuff behind it would be great to hear your opinion her: How do you feel about the TEAC UD H-01 DAC? Does it come up with the same sound quality than the N-50 (used with USB connection as a pure DAC)? In terms of the 24/192 capabilities over USB the seem to be the same. But what about the final sound?
> I am thinking to go for the TEAC UD H-01 or a Cambridge DACmagic (plus) ... instead of the N-50 since I am looking for best performance and a DAC (over USB) primarily.
> ...


 
   
  I've got no experience with the Teac DAC so I can't say how well it would compare with the N50. Sorry.
   
  Thanks for the link though - I read it using Chrome translate and got the general idea.
   
  Quote: 





timoxx4 said:


> Hi zzffnn,
> 
> Yeah already got an O2 amp (no odac though) and i find it didn't sound any different with the Cowon J3. I think the J3 is just not good enough. It suppresses all the details in the music. I have messed with all the EQ settings and BBE it has to offer with no improvement. I have an Archos android tablet and with it connected to the O2 sounds a lot better than the J3 ? Heaps more detail. Plus the background hiss that's present in the J3 is not there with the Android tablet even at MAX volume on O2 and tablet. J3 has very loud hiss when connected to O2 amp. Its just not that good of a player i don't think. All the hype talked about them i am just not hearing it. Sounds a bit rubbish compared to my PC and cheap low grade tablet.
> 
> ...


 
   
  An iPad 2 for a decent price might be a good option for you, paired with a digital dock like the Pure i20, Cambridge iD100, etc. Or just use the Camera Connection Kit to pair it with a USB DAC (only certain models work though, so you'll need to research). You can then use EQu or Equalizer Pro or any number of other apps to play your music and tailor it to your liking.


----------



## estreeter

FWIW, the latest TEAC DAC seems to have a few fans over at AK - cant comment personally.
   
  P86, have you been following the evolution of the CAPS server over at CA ? Specifically,
   
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/my-new-caps-v2-build%3B-best-digital-ive-heard-13548/
   
  I dont want to derail this thread, but the OP claims his CAPS server is better than his Auraliti and any of the Mac Mini / Linux MPD variants he has ever heard. Lotsa tinkering to get there, but food for thought.


----------



## estreeter

For those who dont have time to keep abreast of developments over at Naim, one of the first companies to embrace the 'network player' concept, this is their latest addiction to their horde of players with 'network capabilities':
   
http://www.whathifi.com/review/naim-nac-n-172-xs
   
  I believe that the new 'streaming preamp' comes in at a little over 3K USD, and it joins the following toys:
   
  NDS - the current 'reference' network player, with a pricetag to match:
http://www.whathifi.com/news/naim-launches-%C2%A36250-nds-network-music-player
   
  NDX - the previous reference, inspired by the megabuck HDX hard-drive player:
http://www.whathifi.com/review/naim-ndx
   
  ND5 XS - a more affordable version of the NDX:
http://www.whathifi.com/news/win-a-naim-nd5-xs-network-player-worth-%C2%A31950
   
  NaimUniti2 - the second iteration of their big selling Uniti all-in-one (has a CDP):
http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/naimuniti
   
  UnitiLite - a cheaper version of the Uniti2, with a smaller amp (50W vs 70W) and cheaper CDP:
http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/unitilite
   
  UnitiQute - an even smaller, boxier all-in-one (minus CDP and 30WPC amp):
http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/unitilite
   
  Those with deep pockets may like to peruse the Nov, 2012 US MSRP listing via the link at the bottom of this page. Its worth noting that everything listed above starts around the 3K USD mark - obviously your local dealer can give you more details.
   
http://www.soundorg.com/brands/naim
   
  Counting the original HDX, which Naim are still producing, I count no less than 8 'network-enabled' products from Naim. Is it just me, or is there a little redundancy creeping into that lineup ? I guess that is one of the advantages of separates over the all-in-one : you dont have to release an all-new product every time you want to give your customers an upgrade/downgrade path. One thing is clear - to me anyway - companies like Naim and Linn arent backing down from their willingness to embrace hard-drive based systems.


----------



## project86

Dunno about the CAPS server. I get the feeling the OP is one of those "Wow, the search is finally over!" type of people who will be back on the market trying new stuff/finding more improvements within a year. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows... But for me the PK90 is the end of my journey in terms of SQ. Combined with a nice DAC, I get better results with it than any of the $5K, $12K, etc transports that I've owned in he past. That's good enough for me!

Naim and Linn stuff always looks good to me until I see the price. Wish they would release affordable streaming only units with no DAC.


----------



## estreeter

Thanks for the feedback, P86, and I tend to agree with your point re the poster in question. Some of those guys are just inveterate tinkerers, pure and simple : that's cool, but the people reading those threads need to realise that IMO.
   
  Also agree re Naim and Linn, but at least the Naim stuff seems to find music on a network a whole lot more quickly and easily than the Linn systems Nothing like slugging someone 7K for a 'streamer' then asking them to spend days/weeks wrestling with your buggy implementation.  :yikes:


----------



## project86

Btw you mentioned the TEAC gear being well received. I'm pretty intrigued by the new Reference 501 series components they are just now releasing. USB dac, balanced HP amp, compact integrated, and a small CD player that somehow plays DSD... Not sure about that last part - maybe you burn it as a data disc or something?


----------



## estreeter

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=476545


----------



## project86

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=476545


 
   
  Interesting thread. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.
   
  DSD playback is still fringe as far as I'm concerned. Yes, more and more units are adding support, but it reminds me of the megapixel race for point-and-shoot digital cameras: do we really _need _it? I suspect the answer is no in the vast majority of cases.


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## estreeter

I wouldnt want to pay for mammoth downloads unless I can be sure that the end result will be (markedly) better than I've experienced from my lone SACD. Read a 'warts and all' summary of SACD a while back, and the author claimed that some discs weren't even cut from the master tapes - in one horrendous example, the SACD was cut from a 16/44.1 CD ! Like vinyl, nothing can compensate for poor production/mastering, but some of us seem to think 'hi-rez' recording is a magic cure-all for all of these woes.


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## project86

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I wouldnt want to pay for mammoth downloads unless I can be sure that the end result will be (markedly) better than I've experienced from my lone SACD. Read a 'warts and all' summary of SACD a while back, and the author claimed that some discs weren't even cut from the master tapes - in one horrendous example, the SACD was cut from a 16/44.1 CD ! Like vinyl, nothing can compensate for poor production/mastering, but some of us seem to think 'hi-rez' recording is a magic cure-all for all of these woes.


 
   
  Same here. It's not too different from 24/192 downloads currently available. First, I'd like to know the origin of the recording - if it was originally done at 96kHz then we are better off buying that version (for less, depending on the site). If 192 is the original, then I might spring for that, if it isn't too much more expensive. 
   
  But then we get to the selection of 192 options available and see that it is really small! 96 and 88.2 have way more choices. Ultimately you really have to like "audiophile" music to make even the current hi-res downloads viable. Most non-audiophile music lovers I know listen to specific genres and wouldn't bother buying all the quirky jazz, classical, and world music that makes up the current hi-res catalog. So to talk about an even more obscure format (DSD) seems like a waste to me.


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## jcgarrison

So does the Sonos Connect meet your criteria? I particularly want to know if using the digital output bypasses the volume control. I want to use my new Cambridge 851c in its digital preamp mode, and I don't want to stack volume controls or DAC's. I'm using a Squeezebox touch now, but interested in the Connect and the Sonos controller.
   
  Great job with this thread, by the way. Thanks for all the hard work...


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## project86

Quote: 





jcgarrison said:


> So does the Sonos Connect meet your criteria? I particularly want to know if using the digital output bypasses the volume control. I want to use my new Cambridge 851c in its digital preamp mode, and I don't want to stack volume controls or DAC's. I'm using a Squeezebox touch now, but interested in the Connect and the Sonos controller.
> 
> Great job with this thread, by the way. Thanks for all the hard work...


 
   
  Thanks for the kind words! My original criteria is basically out the window at this point - my main source these days (Auraliti PK90) is "headless" controlled by the mPad app on my iPad. So anything goes. Unfortunately I've not had time to focus on anything else for this article due to other commitments.
   
  I've not tried the Sonos Connect myself. I know someone who owns and loves his, but he had some mods done by Wyred 4 Sound. I don't know that he ever used the stock unit by itself for comparison. But the UI should be the same and he claims it is excellent, so it's probably worth looking in to. UI is half the battle (at least) when it comes to these devices.


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## project86

Just a quick note to advise: my JF Digital HDM-03S streamer is for sale. I hope it's not an abuse of the forum to add this info here, but as this is pretty much the only info (in English), anywhere, about this device, I figure it makes sense. 
   
  Need a good DAC? HDM-03S can do that. Want to play music via UPnP? Yep, including hi-res material. Or connect directly to a USB hard drive and play that way. Use the headphone amp, or the analog outs, or the coaxial SPDIF out. The more I talk about it the more I think I don't want to sell it.... but my Auraliti PK90/NuForce LPS-1/Audiophilleo 1/PurePower setup is all I use these days.


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## vladinecko

Great f-ing thread, project86! Subscribed...


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## project86

Quote: 





vladinecko said:


> Great f-ing thread, project86! Subscribed...


 
   
  Thanks! It was a labor of love, and unfortunately I probably won't have all that much more to add to it from this point on. I'd rather it just be used as a reference, or continue chatting about new stuff, as my initial goal of some all-encompassing reference collection is just not possible.


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## Clemmaster

I will C/P a comment I made in the N-50 review since you probably will have a notification here:
   
   
   
  Quote: myself 





> Hi John,
> How would you compare the unit to a Yulong D100 (either as a streamer or standalone) or similarly priced dedicated DACs (regardless of the different features, or the lack thereof)?
> I'm on the fence to getting it for my parents. The living room is not acoustically treated and they use Focal 826W which can become quite hot up top (TNV tweeter) when fed with a poor source/amp. The exposure 2010S makes for a very good paring but the room is clearly not ideal and I actually get more pleasing result using my Fostex HP-A3 as a source due to its smooth treble (AKM sound?) compared to the Concero or the Metrum Quad and don't feel like I'm missing much compared to them (which shows the room's limitations).
> I see the Pioneer as a beefier HP-A3 (same chip family, dedicated power supply) with the convenient network streamer and web tuner.
> ...


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## project86

Quote: 





clemmaster said:


> I will C/P a comment I made in the N-50 review since you probably will have a notification here:


 
   
  I'd say the N-50 is not too far behind the D100 in terms of sound quality. D100 is better, but not by a massive degree. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, especially now that they have made some updates via firmware which address a few issues. I have no experience with the Fostex for comparison though, sorry.
   
  It's funny - at one point I saw over at Erji.net that Yulong (the designer himself) had an N-50 and liked it. He thought the DAC section was simple but good, though he eventually did some mods to his unit. I can't find the thread though.


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## Clemmaster

Alright!
Thanks for the quick answer!
Did you get the chance to listen to the Yamaha CD-N500?


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## project86

Nope, sorry. Yamaha stuff seems hard to come by for some reason, and hardly anyone I know uses their gear except for maybe a surround receiver.


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## Bu11dog

I am glad to find this thread.  I have been looking for a music streaming device for awhile now and cannot make the decision which one to buy.  
   
  Which device has the best Android integration?  Thanks.


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## project86

Quote: 





bu11dog said:


> I am glad to find this thread.  I have been looking for a music streaming device for awhile now and cannot make the decision which one to buy.
> 
> Which device has the best Android integration?  Thanks.


 
   
   
  Well, my focus here started with "stand alone" devices that could be controlled from the front panel. So not all of them were even intended to be controlled via Android or iPad etc. But most of them can do it anyway. It really depends on what app is used - there are dozens of apps that handle UPnP playback. Many of them are focused on audio/video and are therefore a bit too complex for pure audio use imo. But some companies have their own software dedicated to their device only - the Pioneer N50 for example. 
   
  I personally tend to use my iPad rather than an Android tablet or phone, but I do know the Squeezebox Touch (and older Squeezebox devices) have great support across both platforms. Yes, Logitech recently discontinued the Touch and isn't offering a replacement. But that doesn't stop one from using it for a long time - the software is already quite mature.


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## Steel player

I have a problem that's driving me crazy!  I'm no "techie" and I'm not sure if you can help me but no one else seems to be able to.  I have an Aluratek internet clock radio, model AIRMM01F which I've had for about 4 years and I'm very happy with it except about 2 years I stopped getting my favorite internet station, Steel Radio.  It's headquartered in St Louis with servers in Warrensburg, Illinois (but I think they have moved the operation to St Louis).  I can receive it fine on my computer and smartphone.  The portal they use is vTuner.  My friend, who lives about 15 miles from me, also stopped getting Steel Radio at the same time.  You have an idea what I can do to get it back?  Thanks!


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## project86

Sorry, no clue how that would go. Maybe they switched something or other on their end, and vTuner never caught the update? I'm just guessing here. I'd go in to vTuner and mess around, maybe you can figure something out. Beyond that I'm stumped. Sorry!


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