# Personal BEST DAC-AMP & DONGLES discoveries thread (Best finds Reference List)



## NymPHONOmaniac (Apr 28, 2022)

Ok Headfiers, this thread was sleeping and I decide to wake it up....since I have way too much dongles and DAC-AMPS that i didn't share impressions about (thanks to this 1 year pause due to pandemic).

I want to make a kind of Best DAC-AMP quest here, for everything under 500$, it will take price value in account, above it it's a bit harder but I will try to comment about overall sound and features benefit too.

Since 2 years, dongles market war have gone berzerk, their so much offering and this is beneficial for the consumers since price value is more and more competitive. Gone is the day where you need to pay 1K for a Chord to get great sound on the go, now, for 20$ you can have reference crisp neutral sound with Jcally Jm20 for example. This couldn't exist years ago so let's dig into this sound benefit bargain pool more! (and update this whole reference list too!)

*10-100$:*

*JCALLY JM6 (CX31993-10$)
-Euphonic bright, weighty dynamic heft, open holographic spatiality, average resolution-imaging, 2vrms (65mw)*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003093384809.html

*JCALLY JM20 (Cirrus CS43131-20$)
-Crisp airy neutral, vivid dynamic, slight focus on treble brilliance, ultra clean background, 2vrms (65mw)*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002272265385.html

*TEMPOTEC HD PRO (CS43131-40$)
-Crisp neutral, same sound as JM20 but pricier. Volume control and changeable cables, 2vrms (65mw)*
(don't worth it anymore)

*Good guy Miguel ESS9280C (ESS9280C-35$)
-Open well layered natural tonality, hint of extra mid bass, excellent imaging, fowards mids, full yet smooth treble, 2vrms (simply put, an Audirect Atom2 for less than half the price)*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000620903733.html

*-TEMPOTEC HD V (dual ES9219-50 to 60$)
-Smooth W shape to neutral, effortless resolution, excellent layering-imaging, high technical performance, MQA compatible, DSD256, 145mw (incredible sound value)*
https://nobsaudiophile.com/2022/04/08/tempotec-hd-v-review-the-perfect-hd-pro-upgrade/
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005003754735791.html

*-FIIO KA1 (ES9281C-45mw@32ohm SE)-
-Energic lush, natural and dense timbre, great layering presentation, slight mid bass and mids focus and crunchy not airy-sparkly treble.*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004125819243.html

*-TEMPOTEC E44 (dual CS43131-175mw@32ohm-70$to90$)-
-Crisp wide open sound presentation with holographic imaging, transparent yet dense timbre, no tonal or timbral unbalance, smooth yet highly resolved, great vocal present hint warm bass. Insane value since it's very powerfull.*
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002723420122.html

*100-200$*

*-XDUOO LINK2 BAL (dual CS43131+LM27762 amp-150$)-
-Wide and tall holographic presentation, with hint of extra bass, euphonic analog timbre, dense sound layers, extremely musical and powerfull. (270mw@32ohm)*
https://nobsaudiophile.com/2022/04/04/xduoo-link2-bal-the-musical-beauty-and-the-amping-beast/
https://keephifi.com/products/xduoo-link2-bal

-


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## NymPHONOmaniac

There some little sub-100$ portable amp that intrigue me:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...59.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.278.ELpDDf

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ori...25.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.284.ELpDDf

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...lgo_pvid=b91ac494-0506-4e36-a3a5-abb070a83031

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hig...lgo_pvid=59f74112-a5c0-4ade-9c3a-35a26dcea3d9

and especially this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/E47...lgo_pvid=71ad8398-afe1-4dc9-b528-ce784bb788c9


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## TwoPalms

Some AE sellers sell Topping NX5 under $100


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## NymPHONOmaniac

TwoPalms said:


> Some AE sellers sell Topping NX5 under $100


Yeah, Yaoyao and CSJZ sell it at 89$, no feedback tough and 0 order....do You want to be the first mate?


Other people already go it tough:



& little review-impression:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/topping-nx5.819123/


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## TwoPalms

I have NX4 & NX5. As an amplifier I think the NX5 is better. Both have the same power, low noise, but the NX5 has a tighter bass, better imaging. Vocals are more prominent. NX4 sound neutral & NX5 more bright. When bass bost is turned on, NX4 bass feels bigger than NX5, but NX5 bass is more controlled.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

TwoPalms said:


> I have NX4 & NX5. As an amplifier I think the NX5 is better. Both have the same power, low noise, but the NX5 has a tighter bass, better imaging. Vocals are more prominent. NX4 sound neutral & NX5 more bright. When bass bost is turned on, NX4 bass feels bigger than NX5, but NX5 bass is more controlled.



Both look nice but for little price difference NX5 is perhaps a better buy, it tempt me but it do not have DAC like the NX4. What about this DAC?

As I plan to use the AMP with a Ibasso DX90 wich is quite bright perhaps a more warm sound would be adequate. NX5 is perhaps too bright....

I see that you have the intriguing Little bear B5 portable tube amp too, read mixed reviews about it, especially for durability because I think the tube are not changeable. What's your final opinion about it? Did it get too hot to be really portable? Did it really have a clear and warm tube sound?


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## Oscar-HiFi

TA-02 Review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/review-xduoo-ta-02-yet-another-great-budget-tube-amp.715610/

Also consider adding the Topping A30 to the list, it's great, a

what about the Bravo Ocean? review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/r...valve-headphone-amp-budget-brilliance.700676/


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## TwoPalms

As DAC, NX4 is an upgrade from my old dac SMSL M2. Better power, more neutral, lower noise. The main problem of little bear B5 is noise. If you use IEM, stay away from this amplifier.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

Oscar-HiFi said:


> TA-02 Review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/review-xduoo-ta-02-yet-another-great-budget-tube-amp.715610/
> 
> Also consider adding the Topping A30 to the list, it's great, a
> 
> what about the Bravo Ocean? review: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/r...valve-headphone-amp-budget-brilliance.700676/



Yeah, I read about Bravo Ocean in a Xduoo TA-02 review, wasn't expecting better impression for the Bravo but look like it have a clearer sound : '' the Ocean has more inputs and outputs, and also sounds slightly smoother and quieter (less hiss) overall but the differences are not huge''

I really wonder how the Bravo Ocean compare to the cheaper Nobsound NS-02E, the design is really impressive and beautifull! Barely buy it 2 days ago cause of Ebay 15$ rebate on 75$ purchase but there were so much amp that time pass and when I was ready to buy coupon code didn't work!


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## NymPHONOmaniac

TwoPalms said:


> As DAC, NX4 is an upgrade from my old dac SMSL M2. Better power, more neutral, lower noise. The main problem of little bear B5 is noise. If you use IEM, stay away from this amplifier.



Okay, yeah, I will stay away from it especially because we can't change tube and if it broke it's finish. 
The tube amp is more for myheadphones tough, like the Grado Sr325i, Koss portapro and 3 different pair of Superlux, goal is to have fun with different tube. 

I would like to have fun with OPamp too, so the portable will be for IEM and interchangeable amp is kind of a must. Breeze E47 look like to be a steal at 33$ cause we can change dual OPamp.
I find the inside impressive:


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## Oscar-HiFi

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Yeah, I read about Bravo Ocean in a Xduoo TA-02 review, wasn't expecting better impression for the Bravo but look like it have a clearer sound : '' the Ocean has more inputs and outputs, and also sounds slightly smoother and quieter (less hiss) overall but the differences are not huge''
> 
> I really wonder how the Bravo Ocean compare to the cheaper Nobsound NS-02E, the design is really impressive and beautifull! Barely buy it 2 days ago cause of Ebay 15$ rebate on 75$ purchase but there were so much amp that time pass and when I was ready to buy coupon code didn't work!




The Bravo Ocean is pure tube, the Nobsound is hybrid


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## JesvsR

Where is the link for the Breeze S2 DAC/Amp?? Thanks


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## NymPHONOmaniac

JesvsR said:


> Where is the link for the Breeze S2 DAC/Amp?? Thanks


There the link...it got different name like Breeze ESS and S1 too...will change it on the list, and if you try it please share impressions about this intriguing ultra value DAC-AMP!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...73.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.367.2UkBog


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## NymPHONOmaniac

And here it look like the same thing but without metal body....if it work what an absurd steal it is for this wonderfull ES9018 DAC!!!!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SA9...24.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.267.2UkBog


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## JesvsR

Nymphonomaniac said:


> There the link...it got different name like Breeze ESS and S1 too...will change it on the list, and if you try it please share impressions about this intriguing ultra value DAC-AMP!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...73.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.367.2UkBog



But... it doesnt have any button xD how do you use it¿


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## NymPHONOmaniac

JesvsR said:


> But... it doesnt have any button xD how do you use it¿


Oh, this one look like a USB Dac, just plug and play I guess...sound to be turn via laptop...


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## NymPHONOmaniac

So, I make an impulsive purchase for testing something really really cheap but that use same Dual DAC chip than Cambridge Dacmagic....
it do not have metal case but can be plug right way by USB.







http://www.ebay.com/itm/252298238894

Just the dual TDA1305T worth the price...

Will try other ultra cheap DAC of this type if it sound any good!

I'm especialy curiou about AK4490 DAC soundsignature...so will check for the cheaper possible one to buy.


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## BunchOfAtoms

Nymphonomaniac said:


> So, I make an impulsive purchase for testing something really really cheap but that use same Dual DAC chip than Cambridge Dacmagic....
> it do not have metal case but can be plug right way by USB.
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that looks promising for the price.
Let us know ASAP!


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## NymPHONOmaniac

Oh well, en français s'il vous plaît? 
Just find a very enthusiast review of BREEZE AUDIO E17 class A amp, it have the honor to be in the 2016 best buy to make from french audio forum ''Tellement Nomade''.
Copy paste here and if you want jsut use any translator to understand what it say wich is: Extra clear no hiss sound with perfect rendering that do not force anything, all is were it should be. They call it the BIG brother of legendary budget amp Topping NX1....big brother for 10$ more, well...thats more than intriguing!

http://www.tellementnomade.org/guide-de-noel-2016/7/

Oh, and here a courageous audiophile buy the Breeze E11 and look very enchanted by it....

http://www.tellementnomade.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13636


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## TYATYA

Lacking of iBasso D14, Dzero SE and Darkvoice336se.
Those are good p/p products


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## NymPHONOmaniac

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Wow, that looks promising for the price.
> Let us know ASAP!


So I finally receive this extra nude DAC-(semi)AMP....and man....what the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It sound freaking GOOD!
It's just fast impressions with my Koss Portapro but the quality of sound surpass any hope I could have, I just buy this for the ''amp lab'' but this is by far a very competent DAC no doubt about it, warm, extra clear, black background (no hiss even if no casing!!!), it's a plug and play and volume control work well, no need of extra amp for easy to drive but it will open up the soundstage...Dual TDA1305t sure sound like honey to my ears, it's smooth and sweetly textured, mid and low centric, not clinical, analog style I guess....wow man, i'm on a new very interesting quest here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20$ and perhaps it sound better than the 250$ Ibasso D2+BOA I just buy cause I like Wolfson WM8740 sound!  Anyway, the amp isn't, cause it's a DAC with a little amping (enough for 64ohm and less).
  
(bad pic, too lazy to get up and find better lighting)


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## groucho69

Nymphonomaniac said:


> So I finally receive this extra nude DAC-(semi)AMP....and man....what the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> It sound freaking GOOD!
> It's just fast impressions with my Koss Portapro but the quality of sound surpass any hope I could have, I just buy this for the ''amp lab'' but this is by far a very competent DAC no doubt about it, warm, extra clear, black background (no hiss even if no casing!!!), it's a plug and play and volume control work well, no need of extra amp for easy to drive but it will open up the soundstage...Dual TDA1305t sure sound like honey to my ears, it's smooth and sweetly textured, mid and low centric, not clinical, analog style I guess....wow man, i'm on a new very interesting quest here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 20$ and perhaps it sound better than the 250$ Ibasso D2+BOA I just buy cause I like Wolfson WM8740 sound!  Anyway, the amp isn't, cause it's a DAC with a little amping (enough for 64ohm and less).
> ...



Link please.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

groucho69 said:


> Link please.


There you go:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


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## DangerClose

Does it sound fine with an amp?  I guess if using the headphone-out to an amp it would be double-amping, but it wouldn't matter much if its amp isn't very powerful.  ?


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## NymPHONOmaniac

DangerClose said:


> Does it sound fine with an amp?  I guess if using the headphone-out to an amp it would be double-amping, but it wouldn't matter much if its amp isn't very powerful.  ?


Yeah, it sound wider but a little warmer too, it all depend the amp you have I guess, mine its ibasso D2+ Boa and is on the warm side already, anyway I use it with good result for full size headphone and sound is way way way better than my computer soundcard. For iem, it work really well without amp, no hiss at all wich is very impressive. 18$ and it include otg conerter cable and a quality usb cable...I don't quite understand the genorisity of this Douk Audio shop!! 
Will surely try another one that intrigue me and use a Sabre ES9023 DAC, these 2 look interesting, but I choose my first test cause of volume control and coaxial out (only way to bypass amp section I think):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262871186326
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262871186326


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## BunchOfAtoms

Nymphonomaniac said:


> So I finally receive this extra nude DAC-(semi)AMP....and man....what the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> It sound freaking GOOD!
> It's just fast impressions with my Koss Portapro but the quality of sound surpass any hope I could have, I just buy this for the ''amp lab'' but this is by far a very competent DAC no doubt about it, warm, extra clear, black background (no hiss even if no casing!!!), it's a plug and play and volume control work well, no need of extra amp for easy to drive but it will open up the soundstage...Dual TDA1305t sure sound like honey to my ears, it's smooth and sweetly textured, mid and low centric, not clinical, analog style I guess....wow man, i'm on a new very interesting quest here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 20$ and perhaps it sound better than the 250$ Ibasso D2+BOA I just buy cause I like Wolfson WM8740 sound!  Anyway, the amp isn't, cause it's a DAC with a little amping (enough for 64ohm and less).
> ...



Does it work with Android phones and OTG cable?
Is there a tech specs list anywhere around?


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## BunchOfAtoms (Aug 16, 2017)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> Does it work with Android phones and OTG cable?



I've asked the seller and no, apparently it doesn't. Maybe it was obvious, but I'm not familiar with such devices.
So, what's the cheapest solution for a good sounding USB DAC that works with Android phones?


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## NymPHONOmaniac

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I've asked the seller and no, apparently it doesn't. Maybe it was obvious, but I'm not familiar with such devices.
> So, what's the cheapest solution for a good sounding USB DAC that works with Android phones?



Okay.....strange to have option to include a OTG cable tough....hum, well, will try on my Samsung once a receive a usb OTG converter. (mine just have USB cable....)

I think there other choice.....experimental choice I mean!


But, right now, I listen to the new FIIO DAC-AMP *Q1 MArkII* that is thinked for IOS and suppose to work with Android too, it have a balanced output too! Quite impressive for 100$


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## NymPHONOmaniac

BunchOfAtoms said:


> I've asked the seller and no, apparently it doesn't. Maybe it was obvious, but I'm not familiar with such devices.
> So, what's the cheapest solution for a good sounding USB DAC that works with Android phones?



By experimental i mean stuff like this intriguing ultra cheap DAC:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272563718422

You can ask this seller if it work with Android....


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## BunchOfAtoms

Nymphonomaniac said:


> By experimental i mean stuff like this intriguing ultra cheap DAC:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/272563718422
> 
> You can ask this seller if it work with Android....



They wouldn't ship to the third world country I live in (Italy) anyway. I will take a look on eBay/AliExpress for similar stuff.
I'm looking for a ultra-cheap DAC (maybe with a little amping section), since I will eventually buy a mid-range DAP in, like, a few months, and I want to save money for that, so the Q1mkII is not an option for me.
Let us know if that Douk DAC actually doesn't work with your phone. Maybe it works only with some phones and they don't advertise Android support to avoid complaints.


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## BunchOfAtoms (Aug 16, 2017)

Found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCM2706-CS4...055556?hash=item3397335404:g:Xx4AAOSwq~tZN20c
And the same, with casing (<$2 pricier): http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCM2706-CS4...103033?hash=item1c5dff6579:g:l4MAAOSw8-tWZ-aV
What can you say about the chips used?

EDIT: Somebody already reviewed it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/x5-pcm2706-cs4344-dual-tda1308-usb-dac-15-review.758026/
Also, here: https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN-Dual-output-Headphone-Amplifier-Parallel/dp/B00RRHYNN4


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## paulindss

Just got a diy tda1305t similar to this one that @Nymphonomaniac has for 9$! Will try to have fun making a case of wood, and to see If that chip brings up a sound quality on par with my cheap but decent FiiO e70k


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## NymPHONOmaniac

paulindss said:


> Just got a diy tda1305t similar to this one that @Nymphonomaniac has for 9$! Will try to have fun making a case of wood, and to see If that chip brings up a sound quality on par with my cheap but decent FiiO e70k


Bro, please share some impressions once you try it, because the one I have is the DUAL TDA1305T one, at about double the price (logical!)....its call DOUK Audio CM108.

Once I will receive my other ''experiment'', will share my toughs here, hope to find a real deal for the little budget with golden ears!


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## Trisse

3
Breeze Audio Audio decoder AK4490   AK4118   XMOS USB DAC Decoder Support Coaxial / Optical / USB Input Matching amplifier Use
http://s.aliexpress.com/2uYniqIN 
(from AliExpress Android) i think this one looks interesting.

Is it easy to find chassis's dac birds?


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## NymPHONOmaniac

Trisse said:


> 3
> Breeze Audio Audio decoder AK4490   AK4118   XMOS USB DAC Decoder Support Coaxial / Optical / USB Input Matching amplifier Use
> http://s.aliexpress.com/2uYniqIN
> (from AliExpress Android) i think this one looks interesting.
> ...



Your right, it did!

I buy something similar for this thread (and my ears!)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW...phone-Output-Support-for-PCM/32788755737.html

its 35$ less cause it do not have chassis.


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## vector84

Just a quick bit of info about a Douk Audio CM108 + dual TDA1305:

I picked up an enclosed version a while back off eBay - works fine OTG with my Tab S2, but doesn't work over an optical connection, haven't tried it with many other things because... one of the caps following the voltage pot was unlabelled (knock off maybe?) and blown.  Seller was awesome in helping deal with this - sent replacement caps *and* issued a refund too - but the caps got caught up in customs or something and took *forever* to arrive (just showed up a few days ago, haven't had time to mess with it yet).

Don't think impressions would be appropriate since I didn't really get a chance to use it, but I did give it a quick measurement, ~4.8 ohms output impedance @ 1 kHz.


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## vector84

A little random addition I've been wondering about recently:  Breeze Audio E18 appears to be a push-pull discrete class A amp @ $72


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## NymPHONOmaniac

Copy paste an interesting dude that I hope will share impressions here:

Its a topic quite close to heart as I have been searching for a similar thing for a while. Bought a Breeze Audio E19 DAC Amp during the 11.11 sale. Its based on the latest ES9028Q2M DAC chip and has changeable op-amp chips.
Its a pure digital DAC / Amp as in it doesn't support line-in. Only input via USB.

It was like US$55/- excluding shipping, you see them now for like US$95~120/- .

The post tracking suggests that I might be receiving them within the next 24 hours. Shall update on my impressions when I get it.

As for choice of format, its really down to your perceived usage. Is it purely desk bound ? If so, there is a few ES9018K2M such as these:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/new...-af24-4479-90de-62ba546b1dff&rmStoreLevelAB=0

Or if you want something even more budget friendly:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bre...-2c7d-4d12-b06d-c5dc9802015a&rmStoreLevelAB=0


or AK4490 based ones that are around the US$60/- mark. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bre...-2c7d-4d12-b06d-c5dc9802015a&rmStoreLevelAB=0


Caveat here is that I have not used any of them but if implemented right, these chips will sound plenty good and the prices seem to suggest very good value IMO. Shall update on mine when it comes in over the next day or so.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

vector84 said:


> Just a quick bit of info about a Douk Audio CM108 + dual TDA1305:
> 
> I picked up an enclosed version a while back off eBay - works fine OTG with my Tab S2, but doesn't work over an optical connection, haven't tried it with many other things because... one of the caps following the voltage pot was unlabelled (knock off maybe?) and blown.  Seller was awesome in helping deal with this - sent replacement caps *and* issued a refund too - but the caps got caught up in customs or something and took *forever* to arrive (just showed up a few days ago, haven't had time to mess with it yet).
> 
> Don't think impressions would be appropriate since I didn't really get a chance to use it, but I did give it a quick measurement, ~4.8 ohms output impedance @ 1 kHz.



Oh, so,you receive it ''defect''? Well, please share impression here....how did it sound trough OTG???

Yeah, it was from douk audio...they are very reliable and consumer support is quite nice....for me...euh, they forgot to include OTG cable....but give me 5$ back cause I was REALLY satistfy with the sound. 

I really want someone else to share feedback of this, i'm not god, my ears are subjective surely!


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## NymPHONOmaniac (Nov 21, 2017)

vector84 said:


> A little random addition I've been wondering about recently:  Breeze Audio E18 appears to be a push-pull discrete class A amp @ $72



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/E47...ifier-Double-effect-Finished/32815573292.html

Class A....is using a MUSE 01-02 OPamp.....welll....its like 25$...but do the math, so it will be 60$. Intercheangable OPamp permit you to Class A the thing I think!!

read this sentence: * MUS02 plus BUF amp effect.
*
But I'm not an expert about this....just, personally, will try the E17 before spending 2X more for E18. What compenent intrigue you  and justify 72$ in the E18???


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## vector84

Nymphonomaniac said:


> What compenent intrigue you  and justify 72$ in the E18???


Discrete design intrigues me - no opamps, just a few transistors - less components in the signal path appeals to me on a basic "well that should be better, right?" sort of level, though obviously implementation is everything in such a design, and I don't really have the know-how to even try to evaluate that sort of thing from some pictures.


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## maxxevv

It will be dependent on what you're thinking of using it for.  Class A using discrete components has the potential to have a very low output impedance. Very good for low impedance IEMs.  
It may also have a very good slew rate and S/N ratios.  Measurable characteristics that affect sound output quality. Which is why they are often the more desirable design in full-sized amplifiers, where power delivery is important.  And in this case would probably translate well for power hungry headphones. 

BUT  that is if its done right. They can be utter crap too if not done right.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

maxxevv said:


> It will be dependent on what you're thinking of using it for.  Class A using discrete components has the potential to have a very low output impedance. Very good for low impedance IEMs.
> It may also have a very good slew rate and S/N ratios.  Measurable characteristics that affect sound output quality. Which is why they are often the more desirable design in full-sized amplifiers, where power delivery is important.  And in this case would probably translate well for power hungry headphones.
> 
> BUT  that is if its done right. They can be utter crap too if not done right.



Wow, I learn some stuffs here, thanks! So this is why I wasnt able to find any opamp lol Was very intrigue by the promise of A amp too, like the cayin....its abut 110$ I think and know it get praised for real. This one, can't say, but Breezeaudio look like to push value bundaries for real. Hum. Perhaps you can try to ask seller for a discount .... Anyway, asking for discount on Ali can work sometime, especially when a product is very obscure and risky. Or searching more will perhaps make you find the same thing without casing hehe


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## vector84

maxxevv said:


> It may also have a very good slew rate and S/N ratios.  Measurable characteristics that affect sound output quality.


I thought slew rate in modern equipment was rather like super high-res audio - going beyond "good enough" can be potentially very important specs for some professional production environments for some well studied reasons, but well beyond the capacity of most people to actually hear?

I love me an inky black noise floor though


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## Adide (Nov 22, 2017)

Hi all,
I'm using Bravo Audio Ocean for office setup and xDuoo TA-01 for home setup.
Pleased with both of them and no issues whatsoever, Windows 10 drivers for xDuoo came included on CD in the box (was a bit worried about these as I've read they can be problematic).
Got a used Mullard tube for the first and a NOS Tesla for the second.
Good build quality and great sound, very very low noise floor (close to missing), tube harmonics are discrete and pleasant (do not color sound excessively), above decent SNR and THD - I recommend them both.

I picked those based on previously read reviews and until recently never wondered what is the output impedance of them. I would like to know that to anticipate how will they play with future sets.
Can one tell just by looking at the linked specs what would the output impedance be @1 KHz (how most manufacturers are reporting it)?
For instance, I would think that for Bravo where it says "Output Impedance" one in fact should read "Supported headphone impedance" and seeing a minimum of 20 Ohm I would think that output impedance ~1 KHz would be ~2.5 ohm (x8 rule)?
Similarly for xDuoo TA-01 that would be ~1 Ohm?

Are these assumptions correct or I've got it all wrong?
Maybe the more knowledgeable of you would have a clue.

Take care.

Edit: adjusted xduoo interpreted output value.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 21, 2017)

Adide said:


> I picked those based on previously read reviews and until recently never wondered what is the output impedance of them. I would like to know that to anticipate how will they play with future sets.
> Can one tell just by looking at the linked specs what would the output impedance be @1 KHz (how most manufacturers are reporting it)?
> For instance, I would think that for Bravo where it says "Output Impedance" one in fact should read "Supported headphone impedance" and seeing a minimum of 20 Ohm I would think that output impedance ~1 KHz would be ~2.5 ohm (x8 rule)?
> Similarly for xDuoo TA-01 that would be ~2 Ohm?
> ...


Nope, that's not going to work.  Manufacturers don't play by the 1/8th rule (or even understand what "output impedance" means, most of the time).  You can find tons of cheap headphone amps (ex most TPA6120 implementations) that have 10+ ohms output impedance and rated for 8-200 ohm headphones, etc - not even close. 

Components can give you a better idea of what might be going on (TPA6120 for example can be very low, but for heat and stability concerns, recommended implementation has a 10 ohm series resistor on the output, so >10 ohms output impedance) but that still only works if the amp maker followed the suggested implementation.


If your amp works in open loop, and you have an AC capable multimeter (DC won't work, need to measure Vrms) a simple way to get a ballpark figure is playing a 1kHz sine wave and measuring open loop voltage and voltage across a sense resistor of known value (in the general range of a headphone... where lower will give you a more accurate result iirc), then calculate:
Z = Rs * (Vo - Vs) / Vs

If it doesn't function in open loop, well then you need multiple load conditions and a slightly more complex formula to calculate it that I don't remember off the top of my head, but the idea is the same, you're intentionally constructing a voltage divider out of the unknown element and some known elements and recording the difference to use to calculate the unknown element given that a voltage divider was created and its outputs measured.


To get a complete curve instead of just a nominal value the same process can be done at many different values, but usually an automated tool connected to a setup with a known sense resistor is the way to go for that.


PS: a quick Google search: Xduoo TA-01: output impedance 7 ohms
Can't find an exact value on the Bravo Ocean, but probably in the 10 ohm range too, since what I did turn up was a lot of comments about it's "very high output impedance" being unsuitable for headphones under 300 ohms.
(that's with stock tubes though.  I have no idea how tube rolling might effect things, I think it depends a lot on the actual implementation? but opamps can range from like 0.01 ohms to 10 ohms or so? )

PPS: If you can live with 1-2 ohms output impedance and don't need it vanishingly low, voltage dividers are your friend and can sort out linearity and noise issues on a whole variety of setups as long as you have the volume headroom to use them.


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 22, 2017)

Ok, took delivery of my Breeze ( Weiliang Audio) E19 DAC amplifier yesterday.   Its based on the ES9028Q2M chip, with a SA9226 USB decoder,  NJM5534DD Op-Amp chips.

*Edit:  Added pictures.*




 
The volume controls and phone jack


 
Rear access to power and USB port. No, it doesn't charge the battery, needs the 12V DC adaptor. 



 
The things that came with the set. 


 

Great Stuff : 
Very good rendition of details.  Very smooth sounding as its a little bit warmer when compared using the same songs to my LG G6 Quad DAC.  Very comparable in soundstage between the 2, can't honestly say that I can differentiate between them for these details.  That was based on quick A/B comparisons using both my CI880 and ZS6 earphones.

Tracks used:
  i) Tchaikovsky and Sibelius Violin Concertos : David Ostrakh with Eugene Ormandy.  - FLAC
 ii)  Fallen (Album ): Sarah Mclachlan  - FLAC
iii)  Somebody for Someone : The Corrs  - MP3 320kbps
iv)  Yoshique (Album): Deep Dish   - FLAC
 v) Santorini - Live ! Yanni  - FLAC
 vi) Rachmaninov Piano Concerto : Askenazy  - FLAC

I have not tested it directly with my handphone for connection yet ( don't have correct cables)

Will have to compare again using harder to drive headphones to see if there are greater differences at higher power output levels. Also, not sure if the circuit needs some burn in period.

Not-that-great stuff: 

i) Drivers : Will not work out of the box without the correct drivers for Windows 7.  Had to get the download link from seller ( which was wonderfully responsive and helpful, full marks for that ! ) Without the seller's help, it would be virtually impossible to find it on my own.
ii) No instruction sheets of any sort.  Put it to charge on with supplied 12V DC adaptor but there were no clear signs of anything (such as LED switching off or changing colour) even after 3~4 hours on the plug. The charger and the unit didn't register any heating up at all. So no idea if the charging was working or not.
iii) Minimal package. Came with USB -> Micro USB charging data cable,  Micro USB to Micro USB connector cable, allen keys, 2 silicon bands  and that was it. 
I would need a USB C to Micro USB cable to plug it into my phone (to test at least).

iv) Its a pure digital DAC. You cannot use it with a line-in as an auxiliary amplifier.

v) It doesn't seem to have iOS support.


Shall post back with pictures when I have some time to do that.  Also, I have placed orders for some Op-amps with higher slew rates and bandwidths to test out how much they will influence the overall sound signature.

Preliminary impression:

It totally transformed the sound output quality from my laptop. I would say its really good now, compared to the pretty bland sound previously.  But need more time to pin down what's the specific qualities as circuitry has not had any burn-in.  And also, if op-amps used are optimal for its purpose.


----------



## Adide

vector84 said:


> PS: a quick Google search: Xduoo TA-01: output impedance 7 ohms
> Can't find an exact value on the Bravo Ocean, but probably in the 10 ohm range too, since what I did turn up was a lot of comments about it's "very high output impedance" being unsuitable for headphones under 300 ohms.
> (that's with stock tubes though. I have no idea how tube rolling might effect things, I think it depends a lot on the actual implementation? but opamps can range from like 0.01 ohms to 10 ohms or so? )
> 
> PPS: If you can live with 1-2 ohms output impedance and don't need it vanishingly low, voltage dividers are your friend and can sort out linearity and noise issues on a whole variety of setups as long as you have the volume headroom to use them.



Thanks @vector84 , helpful and informative as always.

I'm a bit skeptical of these having an impedance of 7-10 Ohm - I think something like that would crapify most common impedance phones in the 16-32 Ohm range.
Instead, reviews (of Bravo at least which are plenty, not many for xDuoo on the other hand) are very good and I've seen a good deal of people using it with IEM's (so ~16 Ohm phones or even less). And personally although my BDT 880/600 Ohm should mask such high output impedance, I still had good results with 16-32 Ohm cans (such as ISK HP2011 and Bosshifi B8). So... puzzled.

People commenting on very "high output impedance" for Bravo I believe are taking specifications of "Output Impedance 20-600 Ohm" ad literam but that part is wrongly labeled - those are the officially supported loads, so phone impedance to be driven and not equipment's output impedance.
Yes, 1-3 Ohm output would be nice and I'm not striving for less; and afaik that's the definition of a good amplifier. If it's above 5 Ohm (I'm being generous here, one should read 2 Ohm to be conservative) it will crapify sound for most phones, wouldn't it?

If you can still find it please post the URL to the 7 Ohm info for xDuoo please.

I just came to realize there are dedicated threads for these equipments so I'll try asking there, maybe someone has actually measured these because it's beyond me doing it alone.

Regards.


----------



## vector84 (Nov 22, 2017)

Adide said:


> If it's above 5 Ohm (I'm being generous here, one should read 2 Ohm to be conservative) it will crapify sound for most phones, wouldn't it?


Generally speaking, >0 output impedance will EQ phones in the direction of their impedance curves.  So if a set of phones has dead flat impedance, output impedance doesn't change the tonality at all, but BAs and hybrids especially can have *wildly* variant impedance curves, and that's where'll you get tons of coloration.

You're probably thinking of damping effects, but realistically speaking there's usually plenty enough mechanical damping in IEMs already, so the bigger effect is usually coloration.
Also higher output impedance will usually reduce the effects of coupling cap induced subbass rolloff - so if a set of phones does have a dead flat impedance curve... it can actually be beneficial. 



> If you can still find it please post the URL to the 7 Ohm info for xDuoo please.


http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/xduoo-ta-01.php
Pretty sure that one's right


----------



## maxxevv (Nov 22, 2017)

From your link, looks like the near perfect output impedance values of the Chord Hugo, the Centrance Mini M8 would be excellent for the ZS5v1.  The Fiio X5-III comes close behind.


----------



## vector84

A weird damping related side track: some very low impedance phones can also need non-zero output impedance to hit critical damping (typical sweet spot values for things that suffer from this that I've seen are in the 2-7 ohm range) - usually not something people can actually hear, but a funny damping related aside


----------



## Adide

vector84 said:


> You're probably thinking of damping effects, but realistically speaking there's usually plenty enough mechanical damping in IEMs already, so the bigger effect is usually coloration.
> Also higher output impedance will usually reduce the effects of coupling cap induced subbass rolloff - so if a set of phones does have a dead flat impedance curve... it can actually be beneficial.



I see your point.
I get your are not a proponent of the x8 rule as a must but more as a guideline with amendments depending on case.
Thanks for the link.


----------



## Adide

vector84 said:


> PPS: If you can live with 1-2 ohms output impedance and don't need it vanishingly low, voltage dividers are your friend and can sort out linearity and noise issues on a whole variety of setups as long as you have the volume headroom to use them.



Followed your advice and ordered an iFi EarBuddy for the Bravo amp just for the peace of mind. I've been eyeing the Buddy for a longtime but made up my mind during our recent talk.
This amplifier has no gain switch and powers an ISK 32 Ohm headphone.

The Buddy takes whatever amplifier output impedance is and turn it into <1.5 Ohm output while also reducing gain and allowing for more room with the volume pot, all of this without coloring sound.
I think it will only do good.

The xDuoo DAC/AMP on the other hand only powers my BDT 880 (600 Ohm) home setup so 7 Ohm output it's not an issue.


----------



## easily_amused

Hi guys, just wanted to jump into this thread. I've been living in Beijing for 7 years now and only recently got into the audiophile scene. Over the last year I started buying up obscure and odd Chinese headphone DAC/Amps  and Amps. I'm mostly focused on the cheaper stuff, so less than 2000rmb ( <$300). I like to buy things that I can find no info on online because it's a little more fun that way. I have about 18 individual units right now on top of 4-5 more well known products. I actually haven't listened to all of them yet, I think I enjoy the process of buying and unpacking them a little too much so I kinda can't stop ...

Quite a few of the products I own are actually DIY kits that I've just asked the suppliers to assemble - they sometimes offer this if you contact them, my personal assistant has gotten used to my strange requests. As a result I've got a bunch of weird metal and clear plastic boxes around that look like they perform some industrial power plant function. Some of them come signed or with home printed pamphlets all in Chinese. Most are just wrapped in copious amounts of bubble tape and shoved in a box too. Haven't had a faulty one yet, although I have almost blown my head off a few times   Oh, and the size is usually a surprise. It's amusing how little sense of scale you get from the pictures on taobao.

Recently I've started expanding into cables and am thinking of getting some DAPs newxt, although that's a little harder because I can't read Chinese. 

Most of these aren't great products but it's a lot of fun to test out a product with no expectation attached and just explore some new sounds.

If anyone sees anything online in China which they'd love to find out more about, and it's not too expensive, then I am pretty down with the idea of buying one and giving it a go.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hi all, I receive my DIY Xmos U8 AK4490 DAC-AMP and this time have been UNLUCKY and really did not suggest to buy this if your not an electrician. All compenents are legit as seen in pictures but the fact we have to use AC power that is very problematic and cause poping noise and heat etc. This make the device unusable....after a hard time finding a xmos driver for window 10, I finally get to make it work correctly for 10 minutes....sound was incredible, wich make this even more frustrating!!!!!!!!!! The seller never answer the question about proper power supply to use....when I use power suplly it make the device litteraly burn so I use 9V battery like I seen somme dudes use in ali feedback section, but it do not work perfectly so this is just a pain in they ass. DO-NOT-BUY-THIS. Find a AK4490 DAC that fully work on its own, cause this chip look to sound mesmerizing for real!!!
To NOT BUY:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW...phone-Output-Support-for-PCM/32788755737.html

To BUY (still work perfectly after 8 months):https://www.ebay.com/itm/252298238894?ul_noapp=true


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

easily_amused said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to jump into this thread. I've been living in Beijing for 7 years now and only recently got into the audiophile scene. Over the last year I started buying up obscure and odd Chinese headphone DAC/Amps  and Amps. I'm mostly focused on the cheaper stuff, so less than 2000rmb ( <$300). I like to buy things that I can find no info on online because it's a little more fun that way. I have about 18 individual units right now on top of 4-5 more well known products. I actually haven't listened to all of them yet, I think I enjoy the process of buying and unpacking them a little too much so I kinda can't stop ...
> 
> Quite a few of the products I own are actually DIY kits that I've just asked the suppliers to assemble - they sometimes offer this if you contact them, my personal assistant has gotten used to my strange requests. As a result I've got a bunch of weird metal and clear plastic boxes around that look like they perform some industrial power plant function. Some of them come signed or with home printed pamphlets all in Chinese. Most are just wrapped in copious amounts of bubble tape and shoved in a box too. Haven't had a faulty one yet, although I have almost blown my head off a few times   Oh, and the size is usually a surprise. It's amusing how little sense of scale you get from the pictures on taobao.
> 
> ...



Hi man, you have a very interesting passion that I understand fully, its such a joy to have different sound source for our ears! Can you share your favorite DAC-AMP and did any of them are findable on Aliexpress???

I'm very poor so my last buy depress me alot....but my goal is to test DIY DAC-AMP that are easy to use, I mean, plug and play (with or without driver), we do not need case for them to work, its more about protection here...DAC chips are very important, whats your favorite and more affordable one???

Thanks to share here, your some kind of  wizard here now


----------



## maxxevv (Dec 4, 2017)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Hi all, I receive my DIY Xmos U8 AK4490 DAC-AMP and this time have been UNLUCKY and really did not suggest to buy this if your not an electrician. All compenents are legit as seen in pictures but the fact we have to use AC power that is very problematic and cause poping noise and heat etc. This make the device unusable....after a hard time finding a xmos driver for window 10, I finally get to make it work correctly for 10 minutes....sound was incredible, wich make this even more frustrating!!!!!!!!!! The seller never answer the question about proper power supply to use....when I use power suplly it make the device litteraly burn so I use 9V battery like I seen somme dudes use in ali feedback section, but it do not work perfectly so this is just a pain in they ass. DO-NOT-BUY-THIS. Find a AK4490 DAC that fully work on its own, cause this chip look to sound mesmerizing for real!!!
> To NOT BUY:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW...phone-Output-Support-for-PCM/32788755737.html
> 
> To BUY (still work perfectly after 8 months):https://www.ebay.com/itm/252298238894?ul_noapp=true



Think your 9v DC power supply had too much current supply.  How much power was your 9V adaptor pushing into the circuit ?

It states in the specs that it consumes 2W power only. 

Also, compact opamp circuits do get pretty warm. Hence, heat sinks will help in most cases.

A suggestion would be a USB cabled 9v step-up as these only go up to 2W. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-...-e94f-4115-b088-618ae17b8eaa&rmStoreLevelAB=1


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

maxxevv said:


> Think your 9v DC power supply had too much current supply.  How much power was your 9V adaptor pushing into the circuit ?
> 
> It states in the specs that it consumes 2W power only.
> 
> ...



Hi, thanks for the feedback, i'm quite dumb about this power consumption....
  
I just use a 9V battery.....as seen used with other happy users. For AC power, the seller never answer exact power adaptor is needed but I finally find it included with the finish AK DAC-AMP device:




it's 8.4V. Don't know were to find this....
Did the USB power adaptor can really work you think?
Seller suggest to put a heat sink on the XMOS chip (as seen below)....what became extra hot are the 2 metal piece at the right side.


----------



## maxxevv

There are plenty of those DC adaptors to be found on Aliexpress. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/af/8.4V-...SB_20171204210015&origin=n&catId=0&isViewCP=y


----------



## vector84 (Dec 5, 2017)

9V batteries don't really like to source that much current - also a slightly lower voltage (it says rated for 7-9V?) would probably run cooler (but probably lower the output voltage too?).

Also the things that got hot look like voltage regulators - they could probably do for a heatsink more than the XMOS chip, and there's some comments in the aliexpress page that show someone strapping a nice big heat sink to them - you can use thermal glue, or just whatever heat transfer paste or tape or w/e and bolt directly through the metal tabs to a heat sink, that's what they're there for.

Also there's another aliexpress comment that seems to be suggesting they're running it successfully at 7V / 150mA - which is only around 1W.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

vector84 said:


> 9V batteries don't really like to source that much current - also a slightly lower voltage (it says rated for 7-9V?) would probably run cooler (but probably lower the output voltage too?).
> 
> Also the things that got hot look like voltage regulators - they could probably do for a heatsink more than the XMOS chip, and there's some comments in the aliexpress page that show someone strapping a nice big heat sink to them - you can use thermal glue, or just whatever heat transfer paste or tape or w/e and bolt directly through the metal tabs to a heat sink, that's what they're there for.
> 
> Also there's another aliexpress comment that seems to be suggesting they're running it successfully at 7V / 150mA - which is only around 1W.


Okay, will try your advices....wasnt thinking to have to deal with complication tough. Thanks alot, if im able to make it work properly I will share my impressions here.

Cheers!


----------



## vector84 (Dec 5, 2017)

If you want a quick sanity check on if current supply out of a 9V battery is a major problem would be a couple in parallel to split the current load which is really easy to do with 9V battery connectors. (just like jumping a car, positive to positive, negative to negative).
(just don't put them in series or you get 18V, but that would be more involved a mod anyhow )


----------



## bsoplinger

Nymphonomaniac said:


> … To BUY (still work perfectly after 8 months):https://www.ebay.com/itm/252298238894?ul_noapp=true


Unfortunately that listing doesn't ship to the USA. Do either of these match your choice? They both look good to me and I like that the 2nd one already has a plastic case for the board for not much more than the bare board. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...120855?hash=item3f8d36d617:g:~y4AAOSwUlxZ~cey

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...874994?hash=item3f7eb732f2:g:zMkAAOSwcj5ZOfA~


----------



## easily_amused

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Hi man, you have a very interesting passion that I understand fully, its such a joy to have different sound source for our ears! Can you share your favorite DAC-AMP and did any of them are findable on Aliexpress???
> 
> I'm very poor so my last buy depress me alot....but my goal is to test DIY DAC-AMP that are easy to use, I mean, plug and play (with or without driver), we do not need case for them to work, its more about protection here...DAC chips are very important, whats your favorite and more affordable one???
> 
> Thanks to share here, your some kind of wizard here now



Thanks! It's hard to pick a favourite and, honestly, most of the time I'm listening to an Aune X1S which is a great little common desktop unit, nothing special I guess. But I'm using it mostly because it's pretty good sound, looks good under my monitor and is quite neutral, so it's been good for getting into my new headphones.

Of what IO have tried there's a G&W T2.2A amplifier that I really love (mostly because it's huge, industrial, looks like someone bolted half a tree onto the front of it and when you turn it on it hums like a nuclear reactor). I have only listened to it a few times (bare in mind I've only been collecting for 3-4 months!) but it's nice and warm.
https://www.hifi-amplifiers.com/en/...d-class-a-tube-headphone-amplifier-p-891.html

I also have this amp which I don't think has an English name but uses 6N2 and fu32 tubes, it's also huge, weighs about 8kg, I don't think the link below is the exact version - mine is similar but has slightly different units on the back. Anyway it's ... different. Really clear though. I think I need some higher impedance cans for this one though.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bla...amplifier-86-50-power-supply/32688253172.html

I've also got a Litehifi h1 (apparently, I just had to look it up). It's a 'portable' balanced headphone amp which looks like a roughly machines star trek prop. Planning on having a listen to it tonight.Then there's a TCG T1 which came in export style boxing (with english words and everything) which was fun. And there's literally another 6 smaller tube amps in a variety of weird shapes and sizes that I haven't got to playing with yet.

From the DAC/Amp side of things I've made quite a lot of use of an FX-Audio dac-x6 - it's great but, like the Aune, kind of common. Plus a small SMSL unit which does DSD too (forget the name, it's packed right now). Both are great value for money I think, although I'm hardly an expert. I'm doing a lot of listening to try to understand the differences in sound so let me have some more time and I can comment on them.

I've also got a few DAC/Amp combos I haven't used yet: a Rhyme Voice 6J1 (which is gold coloured so must be awesome), a HIFI7011 tube dac/amp (I think it's from ZhiLai?) and ... some others? I think there's 2-3 more but they're packed right now.

I'm going on holiday for 3 weeks, then I come back and in mid-Jan move to a new house where I have my own study. Going to set everything up, take some photos and get listening heavily!


----------



## easily_amused

Oh, I meant to add ... I don't use Aliexpress or those websites I linked from. Usually I order using a wechat, through an called Baopals. I think they have a webpage too. I like them because they offer great English support and I can pay directly with wechat. Also, they directly contact the seller when there's a problem and they'll mediate the conversation. Occasionally though I go straight to Taobao or buy from an actual store.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hum, this one look very promising, but you need an external amp (portable one can do)....but hell, the famous WOLFSON WM8741 high end DAC worth by himself 14$!!!!!!! And this DAC is....35$!!!!!!!!

To beautiful to be true??? Perhaps....but its a finish product so it should work perfectly, and inside construction doesnt look bad at all...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/D3-...-5fdf-462b-b8ef-ebf3b4fc070c&rmStoreLevelAB=5


I'm sicko(really want to put this on my credit card that is already full!)....right now I listen to the incredible sound of AK4490 dac,bassy, wide, ultra detailed and 3D sounding....and wait for the thing to stop working in about 10 minutes....still strugling about this, and really think seller should have talk about the heatsink to add by yourself. But, when it work, yes, the sound is fabulous.


----------



## vector84

bsoplinger said:


> Unfortunately that listing doesn't ship to the USA. Do either of these match your choice? They both look good to me and I like that the 2nd one already has a plastic case for the board for not much more than the bare board.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...120855?hash=item3f8d36d617:g:~y4AAOSwUlxZ~cey
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...874994?hash=item3f7eb732f2:g:zMkAAOSwcj5ZOfA~


The second one is the one I picked up btw - which is the same seller as the unboxed one that @Nymphonomaniac wrote about, and the board I received looks identical to his. 

It's a metal case too btw, the end caps might be plastic though


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

bsoplinger said:


> Unfortunately that listing doesn't ship to the USA. Do either of these match your choice? They both look good to me and I like that the 2nd one already has a plastic case for the board for not much more than the bare board.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...120855?hash=item3f8d36d617:g:~y4AAOSwUlxZ~cey
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Douk-Audio...874994?hash=item3f7eb732f2:g:zMkAAOSwcj5ZOfA~



Yes, both are the very same DAC-AMP I talk about, I like the fact having a volume control, and as said before, it work on my Samsung J3 (yeah, basic smarthphone but I just use it for music, hours, and Fungo free phone!)....soundsignature is quite unique, and ...vintage if I can say that! Like, analogish, especially nice for vocal, it is not a razor sharp sound like Sabre dac or too digital sounding, very forgiving and warm, but vast and musical, mid centric. And must of all, plug and play stuff, no struggling. For less than 64ohm headphone the little amping will be enough, but an external amp is needed for higher impendance ones. Listen to it right now, just to confirm another time I LOVE this TDA1305T sweet sound


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

vector84 said:


> The second one is the one I picked up btw - which is the same seller as the unboxed one that @Nymphonomaniac wrote about, and the board I received looks identical to his.
> 
> It's a metal case too btw, the end caps might be plastic though



You receive a defective one I think? Still never listen to it fully???


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Its not a dac or amp....but a DAP....but hey, I press buy button right way when I see whats hide inside his beautifull body: the top of the line AK4497EQ DAC!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ask the seller for a rebate, hes been kind enough for letting it go for 230$ because its a new product....well well....he make doing a very consequent impulse buy. Hope it will worth it and IMPRESS me for real!!!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/F-A...DSD-Digital-Audio-Player-DAP/32841440263.html

Only other DAP I know using this chip is the Astell & kern Ultima SP1000 that cost 3500$. Hope to have a real revange against rich ass people with this incredibly promising DAP!!!!!!!!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

LOL when I say rich ass....the Ultima is clearly for them. Check the guy at they end of publicity, at the top of his skyscraper, smoothly shaking head listening bad music thinking hes the king of the world LOL Donald Trump too own a A&K Ultima.


----------



## maxxevv (Dec 7, 2017)

The newly updated Topping NX4 intrigues me though.  With the ES9038Q2M chip.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top...-6a24-4ea0-814e-07621bba43b8&rmStoreLevelAB=2

But this particular one is most interesting in my opinion as it actually allows access to the sound filters built into the DAC chip via jumpers.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ES9...-29f8-4265-af75-30ea66dc6a48&rmStoreLevelAB=2

Or if you're on a budget and willing to DIY, this: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW...id=5bebb37c-a24b-4234-8fee-85880ba83efb&tpp=1


----------



## bsoplinger

maxxevv said:


> … Or if you're on a budget and willing to DIY, this:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW...id=5bebb37c-a24b-4234-8fee-85880ba83efb&tpp=1


Interesting. I can compare the kit picture to the finished model picture. I see the basic board. I see the rectified power supply. I see the added power input and switch. But what's the big, round, blue thing behind the input selector in the finished model they offer? I'm trying to figure out what makes it go from $50 for basic board and power supply to $180 besides a nice box and assembly.


----------



## maxxevv

The blue thing is a sealed power transformer.  

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...206.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.335e155e30FB56

You need to know how to put everything together and put the right things together too.  A complete box includes matching parts and labour for assembly and some basic testing.  The parts alone will be about US$110~145 depending on parts selected.  So the premium is for labour. Sort of what calling a handyman to fix the leaking tape versus doing it yourself would cost.


----------



## bsoplinger

maxxevv said:


> The blue thing is a sealed power transformer.
> …
> You need to know how to put everything together…


I know enough to use a soldering iron safely but not too much more. And I saw the phrase rectified power supply and figured that was that as far as going from an outlet to the circuit board. But now adding in $25 for that and it is a rather nice looking box and knobs… Makes the assembled version seem much more a reasonable price. Thanks for explaining.


----------



## Slater

bsoplinger said:


> Interesting. I can compare the kit picture to the finished model picture. I see the basic board. I see the rectified power supply. I see the added power input and switch. But what's the big, round, blue thing behind the input selector in the finished model they offer? I'm trying to figure out what makes it go from $50 for basic board and power supply to $180 besides a nice box and assembly.



The blue thing is a power transformer. You often see those "big blue" transformers in amplifiers that use LPS.


----------



## young59

@Nymphonomaniac Why not give the Zishan Z2 a try it has the ak4490 chip its a dap that can iirc also function as a DAC+AMP when connected with usb and it's under 50$.
And if you have already tried it do give some impressions.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

young59 said:


> @Nymphonomaniac Why not give the Zishan Z2 a try it has the ak4490 chip its a dap that can iirc also function as a DAC+AMP when connected with usb and it's under 50$.
> And if you have already tried it do give some impressions.


Cause I make the mistake buying a DAC-AMP with AK4490.....should have go for the Zishan Z2 ....a Walnut V2S will arrive soon tough, cause of amp section....did the Z2 can be a stand alone AMP as well? And can we change folder with it cause I already have a Xduoo X1 than can't and don't like this aspect of the player.


----------



## young59

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Cause I make the mistake buying a DAC-AMP with AK4490.....should have go for the Zishan Z2 ....a Walnut V2S will arrive soon tough, cause of amp section....did the Z2 can be a stand alone AMP as well? And can we change folder with it cause I already have a Xduoo X1 than can't and don't like this aspect of the player.


No the Z2 cannot function as a amp only but I think the previous iteration Zishan Z1 could but it had lower hardware you can take a look if you want but I think the walnut V2S would perform much better and it has a balanced out.
I don't remember but either on the Zishan Z2 or the walnut V2 thread people were pairing those together.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac (Dec 10, 2017)

young59 said:


> No the Z2 cannot function as a amp only but I think the previous iteration Zishan Z1 could but it had lower hardware you can take a look if you want but I think the walnut V2S would perform much better and it has a balanced out.
> I don't remember but either on the Zishan Z2 or the walnut V2 thread people were pairing those together.


Yeah, Walnut V2S look very interesting and I like the fact it have more buttons to press hehe, and the changing OPamp is what interest me mustly, but its a player too....I don,t think there a balanced output, just normal 3.5 lineout, the Walnut F1 is a amp with both 3.5 and balanced output.
Zishan Z2 is near double the price of walnut V2s (25-35 vs 50-60), but the sound of AK4490 is quite fabulous and worth investment, and it look likeyou can change folder too with Z2 so it give a welcome searching freedom. Z2 can be use as external DAC trough USB, this is why I feel stoooooopid that I have bought the Xmos AK4490 DAC-AMP wich is a pain in they ass to make working properly, and that I cannot suggest to buy for anyone but electrician that want to upgrade it. Well, lesson learned, you can pay 18$ for a dac-amp that work perfectly and do not need driver or external power and can give little amping too, and you can pay 35$ for something that is just real DIY crap that cannot be use by average consumer and isnt explaining properly this fact (be aware that HIFI College Aliexpress shop aren't very collaborative with confuse buyers).
EDIT: Finally HIFI College take my complaint more seriously and answer me this:
''HI
The company looked at your purchase history.
Already agree with your plan.
ALI will refund your money in 1-15 days''
I think they will refund me 15$ because I was just trying to have something back....well, its better than nothing. Its 20$ throw in garbage, but if my electrician skill became more serious, I will go back for a project cause YES some compenent are very interesting in this.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

easily_amused said:


> Thanks! It's hard to pick a favourite and, honestly, most of the time I'm listening to an Aune X1S which is a great little common desktop unit, nothing special I guess. But I'm using it mostly because it's pretty good sound, looks good under my monitor and is quite neutral, so it's been good for getting into my new headphones.
> 
> Of what IO have tried there's a G&W T2.2A amplifier that I really love (mostly because it's huge, industrial, looks like someone bolted half a tree onto the front of it and when you turn it on it hums like a nuclear reactor). I have only listened to it a few times (bare in mind I've only been collecting for 3-4 months!) but it's nice and warm.
> https://www.hifi-amplifiers.com/en/...d-class-a-tube-headphone-amplifier-p-891.html
> ...


Okay, please came back here and share pictures. Fellow headfier suggest very interesting DAC-AMP that use TOTL sabre chip ESS9038.....can be mustly found in 1000-1500$ audio gear....the 9018 is still considered quite phenomelnal (by me and others) so I can't imagine how good it can sound if well implemented!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ES9...-29f8-4265-af75-30ea66dc6a48&rmStoreLevelAB=2


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

maxxevv said:


> The newly updated Topping NX4 intrigues me though.  With the ES9038Q2M chip.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Top...-6a24-4ea0-814e-07621bba43b8&rmStoreLevelAB=2
> 
> ...


About NX4, I think the seller isnt telling the truth. Its the only one saying there a ES9038 DAC inside....all other tell decoding chip is SA9226.
Perhaps this guy is FOS.


----------



## xenithon

Has anyone perhaps had experience with the (relatively new) Xduoo TA-20 balanced headphone amp? Looks like a balanced hybrid / transformer coupled design, with 12AU7's as preamp/driver tubes. The TA-10 seemed quite decent as a DAC/amp whereas this is a pure balanced amp delivering up to 2W (32 ohms).








https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1UgneSFXXXXXnapXXq6xXFXXXB/New-****-XDUOO-TA-20-High-Performance-Balanced-Tube-Headphone-Amplifier-Power-Amplifier.jpg


----------



## groucho69

xenithon said:


> Has anyone perhaps had experience with the (relatively new) Xduoo TA-20 balanced headphone amp? Looks like a balanced hybrid / transformer coupled design, with 12AU7's as preamp/driver tubes. The TA-10 seemed quite decent as a DAC/amp whereas this is a pure balanced amp delivering up to 2W (32 ohms).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Beautiful isn't it?


----------



## maxxevv (Dec 10, 2017)

Nymphonomaniac said:


> About NX4, I think the seller isnt telling the truth. Its the only one saying there a ES9038 DAC inside....all other tell decoding chip is SA9226.
> Perhaps this guy is FOS.



You're perhaps too quick to jump to conclusions there. 

If you do a quick search on Aliexpress, you'll see at least 5 listings on the updated NX4.  All from known sellers, not new 'pop-up' stores. (just look for the ones with the updated US$159.9 prices. )

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholes...1&initiative_id=SB_20171210174350&needQuery=n


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

xenithon said:


> Has anyone perhaps had experience with the (relatively new) Xduoo TA-20 balanced headphone amp? Looks like a balanced hybrid / transformer coupled design, with 12AU7's as preamp/driver tubes. The TA-10 seemed quite decent as a DAC/amp whereas this is a pure balanced amp delivering up to 2W (32 ohms).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I adore Xduoo company, and did heard lot of good stuffs about their amp or dac-amp....not tested any unfortunately. This look quite promising I must admit!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

maxxevv said:


> You're perhaps too quick to jump to conclusions there.
> 
> If you do a quick search on Aliexpress, you'll see at least 5 listings on the updated NX4.  All from known sellers, not new 'pop-up' stores. (just look for the ones with the updated US$159.9 prices. )
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholes...1&initiative_id=SB_20171210174350&needQuery=n


Kind of true....but  they should at least have something to help consumer don't make wrong decision, like, NX4S or V or I don't know what, cause...tis quite a BIG upgrade here!!! So, okay, i'm....very curious about this. I nearly buy NX products like....5 times. Now, they get serious for real!


----------



## young59

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Yeah, Walnut V2S look very interesting and I like the fact it have more buttons to press hehe, and the changing OPamp is what interest me mustly, but its a player too....I don,t think there a balanced output, just normal 3.5 lineout, the Walnut F1 is a amp with both 3.5 and balanced output.
> Zishan Z2 is near double the price of walnut V2s (25-35 vs 50-60), but the sound of AK4490 is quite fabulous and worth investment, and it look likeyou can change folder too with Z2 so it give a welcome searching freedom. Z2 can be use as external DAC trough USB, this is why I feel stoooooopid that I have bought the Xmos AK4490 DAC-AMP wich is a pain in they ass to make working properly, and that I cannot suggest to buy for anyone but electrician that want to upgrade it. Well, lesson learned, you can pay 18$ for a dac-amp that work perfectly and do not need driver or external power and can give little amping too, and you can pay 35$ for something that is just real DIY crap that cannot be use by average consumer and isnt explaining properly this fact (be aware that HIFI College Aliexpress shop aren't very collaborative with confuse buyers).
> EDIT: Finally HIFI College take my complaint more seriously and answer me this:
> ''HI
> ...


Yeah sorry about that I mixed the Walnut V2S with the Walnut F1.


----------



## Ted Presley

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Kind of true....but  they should at least have something to help consumer don't make wrong decision, like, NX4S or V or I don't know what, cause...tis quite a BIG upgrade here!!! So, okay, i'm....very curious about this. I nearly buy NX products like....5 times. Now, they get serious for real!



Actually, it's called NX4 DSD, the upgraded version of original NX4. The newer one uses ES9038Q2M chip.


----------



## groucho69

I got this in an email:

Dear friends,

We’ve previously received a lot of enquiries regarding the absence of balanced output in AP200, thereby, we decided to make a truly balanced amplifier to fit your needs.

Hidizs DH-1000, a dual balance native DSD DAC/Amplifier is not only able to assist your AP200 in balancing the output, but also turn any of your devices into a HiFi music player. For details, please refer to our product landing page.


----------



## davidland




----------



## Paysen

I came across your thread because I am searching for a cheap dac. My Realtek 1150 doesn't let me disable the amp, and I also have a good amp (objective2).

The problem is, that the bass sounds terrible. Even on low volume it sounds very bad. I think it's the fault of the onboard amp. I would like to circumvent this by using a cheap dac. I use it mainly for competitive gaming, but also for listening to music on my k712. 

Which one should I try?


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Paysen said:


> I came across your thread because I am searching for a cheap dac. My Realtek 1150 doesn't let me disable the amp, and I also have a good amp (objective2).
> 
> The problem is, that the bass sounds terrible. Even on low volume it sounds very bad. I think it's the fault of the onboard amp. I would like to circumvent this by using a cheap dac. I use it mainly for competitive gaming, but also for listening to music on my k712.
> 
> Which one should I try?



Budget?

Can't go wrong with the JDS Labs OL DAC or the Topping D30


----------



## Paysen (Jan 9, 2018)

Budget - well let's say below 100€.

A pure DAC is okay. Are these better than an Asus Xonar DX?

Or worth the money compared to the hifime SABRE 24/96 with ES9023 chip?


----------



## LordZero

Anyone know what sound better between the FX-AUDIO DAC-X6 x Smsl M3 x Fiio E10?

Was looking for something to drive earbuds between 150 to 400ohms.


----------



## FastAndClean

you can ad Sabaj DA3 with double ess SABRE9018Q2C chips and second generation XMOS USB Audio solution, in comparison to the dragonfly 1.2 sound like it is from another planet
it is 85 dollars right now for the next 3 days


----------



## rpeebles

CM108 + TDA1305T + TDA1308 3.5mm Output USB Amp USB Sound Card DAC Decoder 5V
Very neat. Could you please help me to connect it to an Iphone Smartphone 7. 
It needs external 5V power ? - Transformer + what connection ? Thanks !


----------



## omegaorgun

This intrigued me so I bit the bullet. US $99.99

*Breeze Audio DSD USB DAC ES9018K2M XMOS U8 OP275 * 2 LM49860 Class A Earphone Decoder I2S DSD USB audio amplifier AMP*

Technical parameter:

Chip combination program: XMOS-U8-64+ES9018K2M+LM49860+OP275X2
Input mode: USB interface, support WIN7 WIN8 WIN10 WINXP Apple Computer
Output interface: 35, 6 earphone interface +RCA line interface
Power supply: 50-60HZ 220V
Output support: support 192K 24BIT PCM support DSD
Headphone load: 16-600ohms


----------



## KipNix (May 18, 2018)

I'm enjoying my FX Audio DAC-X6. It's a solid piece of equipment; all controls are tight. There's no noise bleeding or excessive bass or treble like you would get with cheap sound cards. I like the inputs and outputs; those are the best features for me.
24 bit/192
 I like being able to "crank it up" when I want.
$73 Canadian on ebay.


----------



## omegaorgun

KipNix said:


> I'm enjoying my FX Audio DAC-X6. It's a solid piece of equipment; all controls are tight. There's no noise bleeding or excessive bass or treble like you would get with cheap sound cards. I like the inputs and outputs; those are the best features for me.
> 24 bit/192
> I like being able to "crank it up" when I want.
> $73 Canadian on ebay.



I like the NE5532 opamp in this.


----------



## KipNix

omegaorgun said:


> I like the NE5532 opamp in this.


 Mine has the OPA2134 in it and the clean gain is good. I'm sure the NE5532 is equally good.


----------



## omegaorgun

Yea the NE5532 was clearer to my ears but not harsh, I tried teh LME49860NA too but I think I preferred the NE5532, I would have to test again.


----------



## chris.d.m.

I was curious about the Topping D30, but started reading negative comments about the mids etc.

In the $100 DAC ball park, some have + things to say about,
-SMSL Sankrit M6
-SMSL SANSKIRT 6th Anno DAC

...Is there really anything close to consensus on best bang for buck budget DACs in June/2018 ?

In my case, need something to feed the Gilmore light mk2, running off a MacBook pro


----------



## yurt28

maxxevv said:


> Ok, took delivery of my Breeze ( Weiliang Audio) E19 DAC amplifier yesterday.   Its based on the ES9028Q2M chip, with a SA9226 USB decoder,  NJM5534DD Op-Amp chips.
> 
> *Edit:  Added pictures.*
> 
> ...


It needs a  BURN in my friend, is their a internal battery inside? I have the mini version of yours Weilang Audio with es9028Q2m and opa16xx with SoundPlus codec" Andriod Friendly and boy does it sound realistic!


----------



## yurt28

Nymphonomaniac said:


> Hum, this one look very promising, but you need an external amp (portable one can do)....but hell, the famous WOLFSON WM8741 high end DAC worth by himself 14$!!!!!!! And this DAC is....35$!!!!!!!!
> 
> To beautiful to be true??? Perhaps....but its a finish product so it should work perfectly, and inside construction doesnt look bad at all...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/D3-...-5fdf-462b-b8ef-ebf3b4fc070c&rmStoreLevelAB=5
> ...


huh, Hum is the only good one but this does not have a Headphone output which is a huge bummer. Cannot beat the price though!


----------



## Electrolite (Sep 17, 2018)

EDIT: So the Breeze Audio ESS seems very interesting I'm just wondering if I can bypass it's amp using the RCA cable since soon I'll own the O2 amp

https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/2016...8.0&pvid=ae16bcd8-939d-4414-85d2-2c33f1cfd389


----------



## danimoca

Hi!

I'm thinking of buying a sub-25$ USB DAC, that:
- Doesn't require external power (only USB)
- Has a complete case (not just a board)

Anyone tried these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...6d92-485b-af92-ab58739d04bc&priceBeautifyAB=0
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SA9...555.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.33182e0eTXvEjC

If so, how do they compare to the TDA1305T that everyone talks about?

Thanks!


----------



## VonBoedfeld

I'm wondering if any of you have experience with the *SaoMai HA8* DAC / AMP:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/SAOM...-Switch-For-Car-MP3s-Digital/32815677420.html

Specwise actually looks very promising:
ES9038Q2M + OPA1642


----------



## maxxevv

VonBoedfeld said:


> I'm wondering if any of you have experience with the *SaoMai HA8* DAC / AMP:
> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/SAOM...-Switch-For-Car-MP3s-Digital/32815677420.html
> 
> Specwise actually looks very promising:
> ES9038Q2M + OPA1642


If you look carefully, you'll notice that a USB data connection is missing... 
I have asked the seller, its purely via BT connection for the DAC.


----------



## VonBoedfeld

maxxevv said:


> If you look carefully, you'll notice that a USB data connection is missing...
> I have asked the seller, its purely via BT connection for the DAC.


Thank you very much - so I will delete it from my shopping list.
Curios, I think much too bulky for a bluetooth only dac.


----------



## Hokum

Is there a obscure amp (or dac-amp) that you would recommend for a high-impedance headphone (300ohms of a HD600)? thanks!


----------



## skinnie

I was lurking over this thread and found this one:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/253969030505

Any opinion?


----------



## baszek

I am thinking about that SE4: 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852
there are two version: 
SE4-SE ~20.86$  PCM2706 +  ES9028Q2M    (not supporting DSD = PCM2706) 
SE4        ~28.16$  SA9226 processing solution + ES9028Q2M  (supporting DSD)

What do you think about that DAC ? Is it ok - I heard it is quite good considering price/value.


I have found today also SA9227+ES9038Q2M combo boards = but price is higher than SE4 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 sth like 43$ and there is external DC power supply needed.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.0.474c319dc3FiUe&id=575728410474


----------



## yurt28

Ok, so Im gonna tell you the secrets of secrets when it comes to sound for how its really good and that is without a Dsp processor especially a seperate chip you will only hear Flat wave algorathm, but in time inside the dacs that par is moved around when transisitance is worked up. If you ever look at the frequency 20khz which is almost everything (16khz) all this portable stuff is just as good as a cell phone and still 15 years later not much has changed.


----------



## parthabhatta (Dec 25, 2018)

Anybody knows about this one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCM2706-Po...h=item2852e586f2:g:My8AAOSw9OFZKEHE:rk:7:pf:0

I think PCM2706 is backdated and nothing is said about DAC chip. It does only 16/48. It has so many buttons, even Forward / Back buttons and full metal body which made me curious. Just wanted to know about it if anybody owns this


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So okay....make lotta time I did not work on this thread....now that I test more dac-amp I can come back!

So, my last love story is this cheap DIY DAC that use 4 TDA1543 dac and is a worries free plug and play with anything.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lus...oard-for-hifi-finished-board/32880513465.html

Sound is vast, lush and ultra layered, as if it was oversampling your music with hearble positive effect. Its on warm side but ultra detailed due to timbre thickness.

Other great discovery is this little 25$ OTG USB DAC-AMP using the excellent ES9018 dac:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lus...der-for-Computer-Android-Set/32868505086.html

Dumbess buy ever was this crap that do not improve sound of LG G6 (if there is its ultimately subtle) and offer same amping power:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lus...-PC-laptop-hifi-amplifier-A7/32867955791.html

As well, less obscure great dac amp and bluetoot receiver is the Radsone ES100:https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/radsone-earstudio-es100.23284/reviews#review-21617

And I really like the Xduoo XP-2 Bluetooth receiver dac-amp as well, very powerfull portable amp!https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/xduoo-xp-2-bluetooth-usb-dac-amp.23597/reviews#review-21757


----------



## Dobrescu George

My review of The Audirect Beam is live now!!  

For the first time, I made a Tidal Playlist of my test tracks, at least most of them (some simply weren't available on Tidal...), and now I also included a link to my Youtube short unboxing of The Beam!  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2019/03/pocket-fun-audirect-beam-dacamp-review.html


----------



## Naughtnaps25

maxxevv said:


> If you look carefully, you'll notice that a USB data connection is missing...
> I have asked the seller, its purely via BT connection for the DAC.


Whats bad about BT connection for a DAC?

I found another shop selling this and the third picture looks like there is a USB data connection although maybe that is the charger... https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Lusy...expid=098465ca-401e-4386-96fe-5c16ea551243-32

If you wanted to go direct connect would it work to run one of the cheap Dac Nymphono has been posting with it?

Just ordered the argon mk3 and looking for a quality portable amp (dac is a plus) for these power suckers.  Mostly going to use it for gaming (xbox and pc) and watching movies so BT might be a plus for me..


----------



## Naughtnaps25

Found it on Taobao with quite a few reviews.  Most of them good, some complaining about battery life.  Last person says it is OK to push the HD650 but google translate can be iffy at times lol

$66 if you create an account. $66 for 1000mw/32 ohm may be worth a try...
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=566323093853&_u=t2dmg8j26111


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So, I continue my quest about dac-amp and try the Xduoo XP-2 wich is bluetooth receiver dac-amp, usb-otg dac amp and portable amp with gain switch. Sound is slightly warm but expand soundstage and mid presence. COnstruction is incredible. Amping is quite powerfull and can drive headphones up to 300ohm (tough sensitivity should be high at this impendance rate)
Dac chip is AK4452. Price 100$. Review HERE

I'm testing right now the AUDIRECT BEAM, sound is clean, liquid, sharp and detailed, but you need high sensitivity iem to enjoy it, sound is not powerfull even if it can drive nicely my Meze 99 Neo (its 22ohm, wich explain why). 100$ is a little pricey tough if we compare with....

The SA9023A + ES9018K2M portable USB DAC AMP. This is cheapest otg dac-amp right there with a real ES9018 dac, sound marvelous, ultra clean and delicate, but as the BEAM its not powerfull and only for easy to drive earphones (at 25$ its the best bargain out there)

My biggest love story for ultra portable dac-amp is the RADSONE ES100, using dual AK4375a and having ultra powerfull balanced output this is the greatest gadget of the year for me. Work as a bluetooth dac, otg-usb dac. 

NOW, i wanna try this ultra cheap dac-amp using es9028 Q2M dac:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...op-DAC-with-Headphone-Output/32956529081.html


We need more impressions here....more guinea pigs too!!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Audirect BEAM tested and reviewed. Check my blog for more in deep info.

Conclusion is: sound clean and delicate with very easy to drive earphones, but lack energic dynamic, bass and proper instrument separation due to intimate soundstage. Biggest problem is low power output, and the price isnt very competitive IMO

RADSONE ES100 really still is the BEST ALL IN ONE DAC-AMP+ Bluetooth receiver.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Hokum said:


> Is there a obscure amp (or dac-amp) that you would recommend for a high-impedance headphone (300ohms of a HD600)? thanks!


Not very obscure but both Xduoo XD-05 or Xduoo TA-10 (hybrid tube and more powerfull) DAC-AMP should do I think.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Anyone looking for something like a more critical approach?  

I consider this my best overall video to date, I feel sorry for posting it, because I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to make something as funny...


----------



## S Crowther

xenithon said:


> Has anyone perhaps had experience with the (relatively new) Xduoo TA-20 balanced headphone amp? Looks like a balanced hybrid / transformer coupled design, with 12AU7's as preamp/driver tubes. The TA-10 seemed quite decent as a DAC/amp whereas this is a pure balanced amp delivering up to 2W (32 ohms).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have it. Impressive powering HD800s and HEKv.2.
It has replaced my Violectric 281 in daily use.


----------



## Dobrescu George

S Crowther said:


> I have it. Impressive powering HD800s and HEKv.2.
> It has replaced my Violectric 281 in daily use.



lmao, please tell me this is some kind of joke


----------



## S Crowther

Dobrescu George said:


> lmao, please tell me this is some kind of joke


Not at all.


----------



## arielext

xenithon said:


> Has anyone perhaps had experience with the (relatively new) Xduoo TA-20 balanced headphone amp? Looks like a balanced hybrid / transformer coupled design, with 12AU7's as preamp/driver tubes. The TA-10 seemed quite decent as a DAC/amp whereas this is a pure balanced amp delivering up to 2W (32 ohms).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm feeding mine with an audio-gd r1 DAC, output goes to the Stellia headphones in a pure balanced design.
Next to this amp I also have an audio-gd nfb-1amp but that isn't used when I want the bliss of the stellia headphones, which is around 95% of my listening time.
So in my case this xduoo ta-20 is my main amp.


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 1, 2019)

Ordered this guy. Supposedly 1.4w @32 ohm but specs are unclear but it looks neat.



https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bsbSuXsy


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 1, 2019)

Dobrescu George said:


> lmao, please tell me this is some kind of joke



TA-10 made Zeos cry, It's legit I have one. Do you have much experience with chi-fi to think it's a joke? This amp can give toe to toe with any $300-500 DAC and beats the pants off an LCX for clarity and overall timbre depending on the tube used.


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 1, 2019)

S Crowther said:


> I have it. Impressive powering HD800s and HEKv.2.
> It has replaced my Violectric 281 in daily use.



TA-10 is legit check Z review.


----------



## Dobrescu George

S Crowther said:


> Not at all.



Okay then. 

I am reviewing TA10 as well so we'll see. 



FireLion said:


> TA-10 made Zeos cry, It's legit I have one. Do you have much experience with chi-fi to think it's a joke? This amp can give toe to toe with any $300-500 DAC and beats the pants off an LCX for clarity and overall timbre depending on the tube used.



I have a ton of experience with Chi-Fi, but when hearing that it replaced a violectric 281, that is kinda hard to trust for me, knowing that the 281 is a 2K USD thingy that's well worth its asking price. 

I trust TA10 can go toe to toe with 500 USD DAC/AMPs, but not with 2K USD violectric 281... 

Ay any rate, I will be reviewing TA-10 as well now, as you all got me curious, xDuoo products have been quite excellent to me so far, so I'm sure it will be interesting for an experience


----------



## Dobrescu George

My written review about the Burson PlayMate is live now!

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2019/07/trouble-maker-burson-playmate-basic.html


----------



## S Crowther

Dobrescu George said:


> Okay then.
> 
> I am reviewing TA10 as well so we'll see.
> 
> ...


I was referring to my TA-20 not TA-10. The TA-20 is still my daily driver and the 281 is in the cupboard and up for sale if anyone in HK wants it.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

TA-10 is a great hybrid tube amp, crystal clear with supreme black noise floor. I don,t find it extremely powerfull tough.

Still searching the perfect powerfull amp to replace my beloved vintage Sansui AU-D5.

For dac-amp, I try the Xuoo Poke and its very similar to the XD-05 in term of sound and even power, but you cannot change op amp. Anyway, its real portable dac-amp and battery life is better. It use AK4490 dac.

I'm really REALLY curious to know how the ESS sabre ES9038 dac sound...anybody heard dac-amp with this decoder???? Wish somebody compare it with ES9018


----------



## S Crowther

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> TA-10 is a great hybrid tube amp, crystal clear with supreme black noise floor. I don,t find it extremely powerfull tough.
> 
> Still searching the perfect powerfull amp to replace my beloved vintage Sansui AU-D5.
> 
> ...


For more power try the TA-20.


----------



## omegaorgun

Dobrescu George said:


> Okay then.
> 
> I am reviewing TA10 as well so we'll see.
> 
> ...



Yea it beats the pants off LCX+SDAC and with "*the right tube*" it can go match THX imo for quality and resolution. The old NOS tubes are the best GE, RCA, Mullard, Amperex, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Brimar, Philips etc. Note it must have the right tube to reach it's full potential, the stock tube is only OK but a little bland. 

I had been experimenting with 12AE7's and the GE 12E7 is the one that almost made poor Zeos Pantera cry with his TH-909, probably because this unit meshes so well with the Fostex Bio-dynamic driver. I might also try 12AX7 to see will it add some gain. You can pick up tubes really cheap on ebay, just get ones that are tested. Lot's of good tubes in Europe too.


----------



## omegaorgun

FireLion said:


> Ordered this guy. Supposedly 1.4w @32 ohm but specs are unclear but it looks neat.
> 
> 
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bsbSuXsy



On this Chi-Fi I will be adding two burson v5i-d's to it and pairing it with my Khadas tone board with has the audiofonics aluminum case.
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/alum...minum-case-for-khadas-tone-board-p-13626.html


----------



## omegaorgun

S Crowther said:


> For more power try the TA-20.



I think the TA-10 is same power as 20 only it has a fully balanced input and output + 2 tubes. I wonder what would be a good DAC to pair with it.



Dobrescu George said:


> My written review about the Burson PlayMate is live now!
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2019/07/trouble-maker-burson-playmate-basic.html



I didn't know Burson was Chinese, I thought they were a western company?


----------



## S Crowther

FireLion said:


> Yea it beats the pants off LCX+SDAC and with "*the right tube*" it can go match THX imo for quality and resolution. The old NOS tubes are the best GE, RCA, Mullard, Amperex, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Brimar, Philips etc. Note it must have the right tube to reach it's full potential, the stock tube is only OK but a little bland.
> 
> I had been experimenting with 12AE7's and the GE 12E7 is the one that almost made poor Zeos Pantera cry with his TH-909, probably because this unit meshes so well with the Fostex Bio-dynamic driver. I might also try 12AX7 to see will it add some gain. You can pick up tubes really cheap on ebay, just get ones that are tested. Lot's of good tubes in Europe too.


I know nothing about tubes but should like to try. You mentioned GE12E7. Will they fit the TA-20? Thanks.


----------



## omegaorgun

S Crowther said:


> I know nothing about tubes but should like to try. You mentioned GE12E7. Will they fit the TA-20? Thanks.



Yes but I think the GE 12AU7 will sound good too.You then have rebrands for instance you might get an IEC or Hammond which might actually a Mullard or Bugle Boy that is an Amperex.

Here is RCA pair on Aliexpress.
PSVANE is a nice Asian tube too.

eBay Search
Here are some of the main ones I know of, all good.


----------



## Dobrescu George

FireLion said:


> I think the TA-10 is same power as 20 only it has a fully balanced input and output + 2 tubes. I wonder what would be a good DAC to pair with it.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know Burson was Chinese, I thought they were a western company?



They are purely chinese AFAIK, they ship from China and AFAIK, everything related to them is made in China and such (?)


----------



## S Crowther

FireLion said:


> Yes but I think the GE 12AU7 will sound good too.You then have rebrands for instance you might get an IEC or Hammond which might actually a Mullard or Bugle Boy that is an Amperex.
> 
> Here is RCA pair on Aliexpress.
> PSVANE is a nice Asian tube too.
> ...


Thanks.
I bought the RCA tubes on AliExpress using the link you provided. I notice the site did not say they had been tested. 
When they arrive, how do I fix them: is it just pull out the old tubes and push in the new ones? 
Sorry for a silly question.


----------



## omegaorgun

S Crowther said:


> Thanks.
> I bought the RCA tubes on AliExpress using the link you provided. I notice the site did not say they had been tested.
> When they arrive, how do I fix them: is it just pull out the old tubes and push in the new ones?
> Sorry for a silly question.



Yep, gently move from side to side with pressure upwards and they will pop out. I put in a similar RCA just a few minutes ago and sounds great.


----------



## omegaorgun

Dobrescu George said:


> They are purely chinese AFAIK, they ship from China and AFAIK, everything related to them is made in China and such (?)



It will be interesting to see how cheap 789 wannbee does, I put a v5i-d dual in a matrix and amp before and it improved by a good margin.


----------



## omegaorgun

S Crowther said:


> Thanks.
> I bought the RCA tubes on AliExpress using the link you provided. I notice the site did not say they had been tested.
> When they arrive, how do I fix them: is it just pull out the old tubes and push in the new ones?
> Sorry for a silly question.



Weird must be something up with my work pc, there is way more gain on my personal computer at home. TA-10 was struggling in work but at home it powered my T50RP vibrolab great.
My workmates custom amp design which will be available on a limited run is crazy good, THX level good.


----------



## Dobrescu George

xDuoo TA10 is in the house. 

Well, it is pretty darn amazing  

I am having issues with the drivers, hoping to sort them out before posting my first impressions. MAN the sound is amazing for such an affordable DAC/AMP


----------



## Baten

FireLion said:


> My workmates custom amp design which will be available on a limited run is crazy good, THX level good.



Any details? Is it for sale  ?


----------



## Baten

FireLion said:


> Ordered this guy. Supposedly 1.4w @32 ohm but specs are unclear but it looks neat.
> 
> 
> 
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bsbSuXsy


This one looks pretty damn interesting, too.


----------



## omegaorgun

Built like a tank, as powerful or more powerful than a Jotuneheim, sound quality is not far off. Best bargain in amps right now me thinks.


----------



## Baten

FireLion said:


> Built like a tank, as powerful or more powerful than a Jotuneheim, sound quality is not far off. Best bargain in amps right now me thinks.



Wow it looks huge 

Which version did you get? (which op-amp?)


----------



## billbishere

FireLion said:


> TA-10 is legit check Z review.





people need to stop taking Zeos reviews as serious reviews.  He hypes EVERYTHING!  It's just for enjoyment.  It's not actually reviews of anything, its just him having orgasms about things over and over.  Very little info, very little actual impressions that mean something.  Again, for "entertainment purposes only"....


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 9, 2019)

billbishere said:


> people need to stop taking Zeos reviews as serious reviews.  He hypes EVERYTHING!  It's just for enjoyment.  It's not actually reviews of anything, its just him having orgasms about things over and over.  Very little info, very little actual impressions that mean something.  Again, for "entertainment purposes only"....



I had my TA-10 over a year ago in fact I told him he'd probably buy it if he ever got one and now it's setup in his bedroom and it makes him cry to sleep. This is a very decent amp and I have been an advocate if it for the longest time, in fact I actually sent him the GE tube to test and now he owns it for keeps.

You're kind of just hating on him a little but I can see your point of view, this time he is being honest and I can vouch for the validity of this review.


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 9, 2019)

Baten said:


> Wow it looks huge
> 
> Which version did you get? (which op-amp?)



Cheapest one which is meh! I thought it was the tried and trusted NE5532 but I think it's different. I upgraded to two LM4562NA which are about $4 each and much better. Might be the most powerful amp i have ever used, it's equal or ahead of the Jot for power but I so like the signature on the Schiit. I also like that the SE is as loud as the XLR.

Super impressed!


----------



## newtophones07

FireLion said:


> I had my TA-10 over a year ago in fact I told him he'd probably buy it if he ever got one and now it's setup in his bedroom and it makes him cry to sleep. This is a very decent amp and I have been an advocate if it for the longest time, in fact I actually sent him the GE tube to test and now he owns it for keeps.
> 
> You're kind of just hating on him a little but I can see your point of view, this time he is being honest and I can vouch for the validity of this review.




What GE tube did you send him, markings on the box, seller, etc? I was watching that review and he failed to link to the tube.


----------



## omegaorgun

newtophones07 said:


> What GE tube did you send him, markings on the box, seller, etc? I was watching that review and he failed to link to the tube.



It was a 12ae7, i have a few different 12ae7's here and i think they are a bit more rare. NOS 12ax7's are also very cool as they have more gain.

Here is a 12au7 with a similar box. https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-12AU7A-...605300&hash=item2ace21cbe2:g:bscAAOSwNAtcdsDj

This 12ax7 is like a Japanese made with Mullard tools! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ma...830475&hash=item3fc7354b5f:g:dWMAAOSwiHFdJ2nQ this is interesting tube, very sparkly.


----------



## newtophones07

FireLion said:


> It was a 12ae7, i have a few different 12ae7's here and i think they are a bit more rare. NOS 12ax7's are also very cool as they have more gain.
> 
> Here is a 12au7 with a similar box. https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-12AU7A-...605300&hash=item2ace21cbe2:g:bscAAOSwNAtcdsDj
> 
> This 12ax7 is like a Japanese made with Mullard tools! https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ma...830475&hash=item3fc7354b5f:g:dWMAAOSwiHFdJ2nQ this is interesting tube, very sparkly.



Thanks I will look into these.  Which one of these, in your experience, has the least noise?


----------



## omegaorgun (Jul 11, 2019)

newtophones07 said:


> Thanks I will look into these.  Which one of these, in your experience, has the least noise?



I have that Japanese 12ax7 and it's good bu generally anything from Mullard, Amperex, RCA, GE, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Raytheon are good. I though PSVANE was very clear too.
I don't have much experience with the genalex but from memory prefer the older tubes and I got 6 or 7 ax7's for 10 posted so  look out for the bargains on ebay that look like they have tested good from a reputable seller.

EDIT: Have i introduced you to my Lord and Saviour Weiliang E600?


----------



## Baten

FireLion said:


> I have that Japanese 12ax7 and it's good bu generally anything from Mullard, Amperex, RCA, GE, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Raytheon are good. I though PSVANE was very clear too.
> I don't have much experience with the genalex but from memory prefer the older tubes and I got 6 or 7 ax7's for 10 posted so  look out for the bargains on ebay that look like they have tested good from a reputable seller.



These are all used w/ the xDuoo?


----------



## ftoss

Hi. I hope to get advice here for the next step in audio search. I’m looking for dac/amp combo to upgrade from my Fiio E10K. I’ll use it with PC solely so portability isn’t necessary. I prefer rock and heavy metal so fast and punchy bass is desirable. Currently my headphones are DT 770 pro (80 Ohm), Denon D600 and some chi fi stuff. I’m also thinking about Sennheiser 58X and new Takstar planars. The budget is sub 300$. My prime candidate is xduoo xd-05 but maybe there are better options:  stationary combos like Yulong? Or some portable options like Cayin C6, Radsone Earstudio ES100 or even iBasso D14 Bushmaster? The key factor for me is step forward from E10K sound.


----------



## Baten

ftoss said:


> Hi. I hope to get advice here for the next step in audio search. I’m looking for dac/amp combo to upgrade from my Fiio E10K. I’ll use it with PC solely so portability isn’t necessary. I prefer rock and heavy metal so fast and punchy bass is desirable. Currently my headphones are DT 770 pro (80 Ohm), Denon D600 and some chi fi stuff. I’m also thinking about Sennheiser 58X and new Takstar planars. The budget is sub 300$. My prime candidate is xduoo xd-05 but maybe there are better options:  stationary combos like Yulong? Or some portable options like Cayin C6, Radsone Earstudio ES100 or even iBasso D14 Bushmaster? The key factor for me is step forward from E10K sound.


DX3 from Topping!


----------



## ftoss

Baten said:


> DX3 from Topping!


Thank you for suggestion. I will definitely consider Topping.  I like that DX3 has a lot of power. Btw did you compare DX3 with some models I’ve mentioned above? 
Also I didn’t get from strange Aliexpress seller description could it work as DAC and headphone amplifier?
“There're 4 output modes of DX3 Pro: Headphone amp only, Headphone amp + Line out, DAC only, Pre-amplifier”


----------



## Baten (Jul 29, 2019)

ftoss said:


> Thank you for suggestion. I will definitely consider Topping.  I like that DX3 has a lot of power. Btw did you compare DX3 with some models I’ve mentioned above?
> Also I didn’t get from strange Aliexpress seller description could it work as DAC and headphone amplifier?
> “There're 4 output modes of DX3 Pro: Headphone amp only, Headphone amp + Line out, DAC only, Pre-amplifier”


Yes default mode is headphone amplifier, simple 

I only had the E10K from your list of models and it definitely sounds better than it


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today we look at the Xduoo HK TA-20 tube headphone amp. A first look, now on Headfonia!

https://www.headfonia.com/xduoo-ta-20-picture-sunday/

Full review soon of course


----------



## psycho84

Hi everybody, I recently joined the forums as I just recently started getting hi-fi/chi-fi equipment (mostly chi-fi). 

I noticed this on aliexpress and I wonder why there isn't anything anywhere about this:
€ 23,64  17%OFF | AIYIMA Mini Headphone Amplifier Portable Earphone Amplifier ALC4042 Audio Decoder OPA1612 OP AMP for iPhone Android Music Player
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/byGphEbI

It is called GaoGe EF03 and it uses 4 OPA1612 and also has a dac Realtek ALC4042 (which also doesn't have much information online). I am not sure if this thing might work as dac/amp also instead of only amp.
But anyways I intend to buy it and try it because of OPA1612 and high power it can give (for my, also recently bough, Beyer DT770 pro 250ohm). But still if anybody has any info about this feel free to share.


----------



## groucho69

psycho84 said:


> Hi everybody, I recently joined the forums as I just recently started getting hi-fi/chi-fi equipment (mostly chi-fi).
> 
> I noticed this on aliexpress and I wonder why there isn't anything anywhere about this:
> € 23,64  17%OFF | AIYIMA Mini Headphone Amplifier Portable Earphone Amplifier ALC4042 Audio Decoder OPA1612 OP AMP for iPhone Android Music Player
> ...



Looks interesting. Let us know how it sounds.


----------



## psycho84 (Aug 17, 2019)

groucho69 said:


> Looks interesting. Let us know how it sounds.


Of course. As soon as I get grasp with hi-fi vocabulary.  I
am pretty new to most of this, i just like good sound when I listen to music (and exploring stuff on forums and elsewhere). I only have Zishan Z3 with Muses02 to compare with at the moment.
I just thought that someone might have already got  one of these so I can get some information myself. Anyway, I am probably ordering this soon so I will get back with info with vocabulary I have


----------



## groucho69

psycho84 said:


> Of course. As soon as I get grasp with hi-fi vocabulary.  I
> am pretty new to most of this, i just like good sound when I listen to music (and exploring stuff on forums and elsewhere). I only have Zishan Z3 with Muses02 to compare with at the moment.
> I just thought that someone might have already got  one of these so I can get some information myself. Anyway, I am probably ordering this soon so I will get back with info with vocabulary I have



Vocabulary is appreciated but not necessary. Just say what you think.


----------



## Coldheart29

Hey guys, has enyone here tried the tempotec sonata iDSD?
It looks interesting, and is a bit cheaper than the nx2s, but i can't find many revius/impressions on it.

I'd be particularly interested in a comparison with the nx2s, since i'm debating between these two at the moment.


----------



## baskingshark (Aug 21, 2019)

Hi do u have any recommendations for a pure external DAC (without amp component).
Budget < $100 USD, primarily will use with desktop and connect an external amp to it.
Preferably the DAC doesn't add any colouring to the music.

I wouldn't mind a DAC/AMP combination too, if it doesn't add any extra colouring, and if it has a volume knob.

Thanks in advance for your advise!


----------



## Dobrescu George

I know it is not exactly obscure, but what about FiiO K5 PRO? For 150 USD, never heard better before


----------



## Baten

Dobrescu George said:


> I know it is not exactly obscure, but what about FiiO K5 PRO? For 150 USD, never heard better before



Does look very cool.


----------



## genck

baskingshark said:


> Hi do u have any recommendations for a pure external DAC (without amp component).
> Budget < $100 USD, primarily will use with desktop and connect an external amp to it.
> Preferably the DAC doesn't add any colouring to the music.
> 
> ...


Schiit modi 3


----------



## Baten (Aug 28, 2019)

FireLion said:


> Built like a tank, as powerful or more powerful than a Jotuneheim, sound quality is not far off. Best bargain in amps right now me thinks.


Mine arrived too. *weiliang e600* from ebay. There's quite some problems with my unit
-front 3-pin xlrs only output weird noisy tones, they're broken
-front 4-pin xlr is out of phase and sounds very weird
-SE to balanced and balanced to SE conversion sounds bad/broken as well

So... only using single ended, very decent power but there's a noise floor to this amp from 25-30% volume onwards. Going very high with sensitive headphones reveals considerable noise.

Kinda dissapointed... but I guess it does the job single ended for the $120 I paid for it. It's not bad but far from reliable or good ........ better save up for THX AAA and call it quits.
Sad. Could have been very good if quality control was better, but ends up pretty 'meh'.


----------



## omegaorgun

Baten said:


> Mine arrived too. *weiliang e600* from ebay. There's quite some problems with my unit
> -front 3-pin xlrs only output weird noisy tones, they're broken
> -front 4-pin xlr is out of phase and sounds very weird
> -SE to balanced and balanced to SE conversion sounds bad/broken as well
> ...



Yea some of these are bad, I would say if you got it on ebay open a case and the seller will have to pay for return shipping. There are also a few different revisions, I have also seen weird issues with certain opamps.


----------



## Baten

FireLion said:


> Yea some of these are bad, I would say if you got it on ebay open a case and the seller will have to pay for return shipping. There are also a few different revisions, I have also seen weird issues with certain opamps.


I can't even open a case after all the shipping wait. On Paypal you have months of time yet eBay has a different policy pretty damn lame.


----------



## omegaorgun

Baten said:


> Mine arrived too. *weiliang e600* from ebay. There's quite some problems with my unit
> -front 3-pin xlrs only output weird noisy tones, they're broken
> -front 4-pin xlr is out of phase and sounds very weird
> -SE to balanced and balanced to SE conversion sounds bad/broken as well
> ...



Is it that it's just all single ended with support for balanced outputs?


----------



## Baten

FireLion said:


> Is it that it's just all single ended with support for balanced outputs?


Idk man I'm just using it only as a single ended amp which works pretty well, all other functionality is totally off. Balanced/SE input with XLR 4-pin output sounds _really _weird on mine.


----------



## omegaorgun

Baten said:


> Idk man I'm just using it only as a single ended amp which works pretty well, all other functionality is totally off. Balanced/SE input with XLR 4-pin output sounds _really _weird on mine.



It's well possible, sad really as if they revised it the map would have tons of potential, as a singled ended for something like aT50RP it works good.


----------



## Dobrescu George

You know what is interesting, this is one of the best DACs from China, and it is a bit obscure


----------



## Dobrescu George

FiiO Q5S ain't obscure, but probably makes it to this thread for being a Chinese DAC/AMP, no?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Ultrainferno said:


> Today we look at the Xduoo HK TA-20 tube headphone amp. A first look, now on Headfonia!
> 
> https://www.headfonia.com/xduoo-ta-20-picture-sunday/
> 
> Full review soon of course



And here it is: https://www.headfonia.com/xduoo-ta-20-review/


----------



## Naughtnaps25

I'm looking for an extremely powerful amp to run my argons off of, any recommendations?

I sold the THX AAA portable to get the Fiio K5 pro because I have no use for portability.  The K5 pro is rated at 1.5W into 32ohms and I think I really notice the extra power and now I want more...  The K5 pros small form factor is a big plus.  The unit sits on my desk and there is not much space.


----------



## Baten

Naughtnaps25 said:


> I'm looking for an extremely powerful amp to run my argons off of, any recommendations?
> 
> I sold the THX AAA portable to get the Fiio K5 pro because I have no use for portability.  The K5 pro is rated at 1.5W into 32ohms and I think I really notice the extra power and now I want more...  The K5 pros small form factor is a big plus.  The unit sits on my desk and there is not much space.


Extremely powerful portable amp? Or not necessarily portable?...

Anyway the E1DA PowerDACv2 or E1DA 9038s drive my hifiman ananda at *20%* volume output, the power is literally insane on this, but they only have 2.5mm balanced output both of them. Are your argons balanced?


----------



## kukkurovaca

Naughtnaps25 said:


> I'm looking for an extremely powerful amp to run my argons off of, any recommendations?
> 
> I sold the THX AAA portable to get the Fiio K5 pro because I have no use for portability.  The K5 pro is rated at 1.5W into 32ohms and I think I really notice the extra power and now I want more...  The K5 pros small form factor is a big plus.  The unit sits on my desk and there is not much space.



If extreme power is your primary requirement, Emotiva Bas-X A-100 with the jumpers in is probably going to be the most MOAR POWER for your buck. 8.5W @ 47ohm.

If you need something more desk friendly, maybe Schiit Asgard?

(Note: I have not heard either of those myself.)


----------



## Naughtnaps25

Baten said:


> Extremely powerful portable amp? Or not necessarily portable?...
> 
> Anyway the E1DA PowerDACv2 or E1DA 9038s drive my hifiman ananda at *20%* volume output, the power is literally insane on this, but they only have 2.5mm balanced output both of them. Are your argons balanced?



Unfortunately I didn't go with balanced as most people say its not necessary.  I have heard some of the extra power is bs and ive heard the balanced can provide alot of power in other cases... Not portable as in doesn't need to have a battery in the amp.  The fiio k5 pro would be a monster of a portable amp lmao.  Something like the ifi micro idsd black label would work but is out of my price range at $600.  I am hoping that their is a cheap open board chinese amp out there that provides an insane amount of watts.

Sending my argons back to get them balanced is an option.



kukkurovaca said:


> If extreme power is your primary requirement, Emotiva Bas-X A-100 with the jumpers in is probably going to be the most MOAR POWER for your buck. 8.5W @ 47ohm.
> 
> If you need something more desk friendly, maybe Schiit Asgard?
> 
> (Note: I have not heard either of those myself.)



(Note: I have not heard either of those myself.)[/QUOTE]

That is what I have been hearing.  Only downside is that thing is a tank and I have heard it is not as clear as other amps and really only works for insanely hard to drive headphones.  Schiit asgard would be great... I may look into getting my argons balanced.

I am new to hifi world and come from a practicality setup standpoint so hate the idea of a seperate amp and dace sitting on my desk.


----------



## Baten

Honestly the K5 Pro seems fine for what you need. It's got 3 gain levels but is far cheaper than the iFi black label DSD.

The E1DA gear would be plenty powerful and cheap, but your argons are not balanced. Sending them back seems not worth the hassle.

Imo, just get the K5 Pro and call it quits. I've heard not a single bad review of 'em yet.


----------



## kukkurovaca

Naughtnaps25 said:


> I am new to hifi world and come from a practicality setup standpoint so hate the idea of a seperate amp and dace sitting on my desk.



FWIW I'm happy using my Argons with amps that deliver a lot less power than your K5 (Ray Samuels SR-71, Phatlab Phantasy, Walnut F1). And even the iFi Micro BL would only be a little bit more powerful.

Small DAC/amp combo units with mulit-watt power output aren't that common; the Asgard might be hard to beat. But you could also get a very small DAC (doesn't need to be a big stack), there are well-regarded DACs that are USB dongle-sized.

Oh! Another interesting option is the Garage1217 Polaris. (http://www.garage1217.com/POWERSPECS/Polaris.png) More compact than the Asgard, and about as powerful at the Argons' impedance level. No DAC option though.


----------



## Naughtnaps25

Baten said:


> Honestly the K5 Pro seems fine for what you need. It's got 3 gain levels but is far cheaper than the iFi black label DSD.
> 
> The E1DA gear would be plenty powerful and cheap, but your argons are not balanced. Sending them back seems not worth the hassle.
> 
> Imo, just get the K5 Pro and call it quits. I've heard not a single bad review of 'em yet.






kukkurovaca said:


> FWIW I'm happy using my Argons with amps that deliver a lot less power than your K5 (Ray Samuels SR-71, Phatlab Phantasy, Walnut F1). And even the iFi Micro BL would only be a little bit more powerful.
> 
> Small DAC/amp combo units with mulit-watt power output aren't that common; the Asgard might be hard to beat. But you could also get a very small DAC (doesn't need to be a big stack), there are well-regarded DACs that are USB dongle-sized.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the sensible words.  I am going to stick with the k5 pro for now until I make more money or the next small form factor power amp/dac comes out.  Maybe then too send my argons back to get balanced.  The k5 pro does sound great, but that polaris amp looks sweet!  Would love to hear some reviews on it...

Thanks


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Any other XDUOO XD-05PLUS owner here? 

Excellent and quite powerfull.

BIG improvment over the already nice XD-05!


----------



## Shaddonai

Hi everyone, I´m thinking on buying an SHP9500. I thought of pairing it with this DAC (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...&terminal_id=b5528224b30b421694d7fb75b9d6383f) . Could someone please recommend me a chinese amp to pair this with (Doesn´t need to be powerful, I just don´t want to degrade the DAC sound). If it can be below $25, better. Thanks in advance


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

I still adore my Xduoo XD-05PLUS, wich stole for good the place of XD-05 older model.

You can give a look at my review on headfi or my NO BS AUDIOPHILE review blog!


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Shaddonai said:


> Hi everyone, I´m thinking on buying an SHP9500. I thought of pairing it with this DAC (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32880513465.html?dp=2e6726e3e6914b1d64d0f8668d31eae3&af=240682&cv=47843&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fimpressions-thread-about-obscure-budget-chinese-dac-amp-best-finds-reference-list.853311%2Fpage-8&mall_affr=pr3&dp=2e6726e3e6914b1d64d0f8668d31eae3&af=240682&cv=47843&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fimpressions-thread-about-obscure-budget-chinese-dac-amp-best-finds-reference-list.853311%2Fpage-8&mall_affr=pr3&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1571950115479&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=6b4b37d3fbf5449b9a08246644356405-1571950115479-01336-VnYZvQVf&terminal_id=b5528224b30b421694d7fb75b9d6383f) . Could someone please recommend me a chinese amp to pair this with (Doesn´t need to be powerful, I just don´t want to degrade the DAC sound). If it can be below $25, better. Thanks in advance



MAn, you make a great choice, I have this dac and love it!
But perhaps your life would be easier with something like that:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963229276.html


----------



## Shaddonai

Thank you for your response. Since I'm about to start school holidays, I think I might tackle on a little project and build the amp myself (I know about electronic, have basis on Altium Designer and OPAMP theory, and I can print the PCB with ferric chloride) . The thing is, the 4xTDA1543 DAC says in it's description that it can output 2Vrms. Using this explanation (https://forum.psaudio.com/t/designing-headphone-amplifier-circuit-need-help/4378/3), I calculated that I would need 7,5 mW to push 110dB, so the amp should be able to give 0,5V. So there are two things: 1)If I only need 7,5 mW to push 110dB, why the headphones specs says that it can take up to 220 or 240 mW. 2)What can I do, since the voltage I need is lower than the output of the DAC itself without an amp (I thought of putting a resistor in serie, but forums says it ruins the frecuency response).


----------



## Dobrescu George

This one goes here?


----------



## chennaxin95

Wondering how the Fiio Q5s is doing with the THX amp module, is it worth the upgrade?


----------



## Baten

chennaxin95 said:


> Wondering how the Fiio Q5s is doing with the THX amp module, is it worth the upgrade?


Few impressions I read say they don't hear a difference with stock


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Hi Everyone, I'm looking for a DAC+Amp with buttons budget is around $50. I don't know much about amps so would like everyone's help in making a decision and the reason for bare minimum budget. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Baten

Dani157 said:


> Hi Everyone, I'm looking for a DAC+Amp with buttons budget is around $50. I don't know much about amps so would like everyone's help in making a decision and the reason for bare minimum budget. Thanks in advance.


Meizu PRO


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Baten said:


> Meizu PRO


 Apologies for not clarifying but I don't need something portable. I have a Hiby W3 for that. Something suitable for desktop purpose is what I need. I'm intrigued by Douk Audio tube amp listed in OP although I have zero clue about how tube amps are better than other amps. But it's all about exploration and I'm happy learn from those who know better than me


----------



## yseviel

This is the only Chifi DAC thread I could find, so I hope it's the right place to ask about https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html

I tried a borrowed https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-3-5mm-Audio-Adapter-version/dp/B00FH1KTFI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1RUPIDS073CXQ&keywords=logitech+usb+sound+card&qid=1579107668&sprefix=logitech+usb+soun,aps,167&sr=8-3. It seems to remove the coil whine I hear through my sensitive IEMs at my PCs front USB port, but I thought it made the sound quality more hollow and veiled. Is the Lusya the best budget version of something that will perform the same function as the Logitech without affecting the sound quality?


----------



## BassMati

Hi, audio noob here, I recently got my hands on some rarely used MR77x's for 20€ (!!!) and since I wanna use them with my phone (Sony XZ Premium), I need an portable Headphone Amp (since it is a phone, combined with an DAC might be better but got no clue, someone told me, sonys allready have decent DAC's built in the jack but I really dont know), mainly (you guessed it) for bass intensity. Budget would be 50€ (poor european student over here) what would you recomend? (have googled about the meizu pro, that was recomendet a few posts ago but didn't find anything about bass and those 57mm drivers aren't IEM's either  so what shall I get? )


----------



## Baten

BassMati said:


> Hi, audio noob here, I recently got my hands on some rarely used MR77x's for 20€ (!!!) and since I wanna use them with my phone (Sony XZ Premium), I need an portable Headphone Amp (since it is a phone, combined with an DAC might be better but got no clue, someone told me, sonys allready have decent DAC's built in the jack but I really dont know), mainly (you guessed it) for bass intensity. Budget would be 50€ (poor european student over here) what would you recomend? (have googled about the meizu pro, that was recomendet a few posts ago but didn't find anything about bass and those 57mm drivers aren't IEM's either  so what shall I get? )


Your budget is low, so the meizu Pro is right. There's no worthwhile Dac/amp worth getting at 50 euro.


----------



## BassMati

Damn, kinda thought of exactly that, found a used fiio a3 for 49 in the net, would that be sufficient or is the meizu more powerful? What would be like... The cheapest device you would recomend with my "fresh" pair of cans?


----------



## spizzlo

yseviel said:


> This is the only Chifi DAC thread I could find, so I hope it's the right place to ask about https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html
> 
> I tried a borrowed https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-3-5mm-Audio-Adapter-version/dp/B00FH1KTFI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1RUPIDS073CXQ&keywords=logitech+usb+sound+card&qid=1579107668&sprefix=logitech+usb+soun,aps,167&sr=8-3. It seems to remove the coil whine I hear through my sensitive IEMs at my PCs front USB port, but I thought it made the sound quality more hollow and veiled. Is the Lusya the best budget version of something that will perform the same function as the Logitech without affecting the sound quality?


You may have already found an answer or just bought it, but this guys seems to think it's really good. It seems hard to believe but it uses a DAC that is a step up from the DragonFly Red. Actually the same one in the Monoprice Monolith USB DAC. 

https://nobsaudiophile.wordpress.co...-reviews-absurdly-inexpensive-audio-solution/


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

so, i'm back into ultra portable DAC-AMP obsession.

Just one word right now, the real deal is: TEMPOTEC SONATA HD PRO

Its 40$. Ultra small. Just have volume control. But the sound is smooth, wide, ultra transparent and clean...so refined for such low price. It use the excellent cirrus CS43131 dac...i prefer the sound of HD PRO over IKKO Zerda (100$).

Make one month I use it everyday...and share my enthusiasm on NBBA....and indeed, all people that get it praise it.

FIIO BTR5 is excellent too, but thats a Bluetooth dac-amp at 3 times the price.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000328408705.html


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Baten said:


> Your budget is low, so the meizu Pro is right. There's no worthwhile Dac/amp worth getting at 50 euro.


Meizu Pro look great, but its less powerfull than Tempotec Sonata HD PRO wich is suppose to be able to deliver 110mW@32ohm and 128db snr. (it adapt the voltage to output impedance...wich is a little strange)


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Has anyone tried this $20 portable amp from Neoteck?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVOL9Nf

It has favourable reviews and is dirt cheap. I'm actually planning to buy but want to know if someone has used this or any products of this brand? Thanks.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Dani157 said:


> Has anyone tried this $20 portable amp from Neoteck?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVOL9Nf
> 
> It has favourable reviews and is dirt cheap. I'm actually planning to buy but want to know if someone has used this or any products of this brand? Thanks.


I have one. Its not good. not powerfull with like 125mW@32ohm. take a WALNUT V2S or Zishan Z2 instead....its more powerfull and can be used as a DAP too. It's smaller but thicker.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Mar 21, 2020)

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> I have one. Its not good. not powerfull with like 125mW@32ohm. take a WALNUT V2S or Zishan Z2 instead....its more powerfull and can be used as a DAP too. It's smaller but thicker.



Thanks for your impressions. I was planning to go Breeze S2 instead. But will check out Walnut V2S and Zishan Z2 as well. For experimenting I am looking for some really cheap headphone amps. If you have any recommendations then please do share them with me. Thanks


----------



## Live with Sound

Pretty interesting. I'm also looking into chi-fi usb dac amps now. It just seems that something like Dragonfly Red should be available at a quarter of the cost. Still, I'd honestly also love to be able to drive my 650's and with the regular 2volts, apparently that doesn't work too great. 

Are there any chi-fi usb dac amps that put out 4v? Or is the Centrance Dacport HD the only way to go?


----------



## Live with Sound

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> so, i'm back into ultra portable DAC-AMP obsession.
> 
> Just one word right now, the real deal is: TEMPOTEC SONATA HD PRO
> 
> ...



Cool. Have you tried any of the dragonfly's or the centrance dacport HD and how do they compare? 

Have you tried it with a higher impedance headphones? Got the 650's and kinda want a chifi dac that works with that, but people say 2v's doesn't cut it. I've got an Xduoo XD-05 which I quite like but loses connection with laptop really quickly =/


----------



## Baten

The latest 2019 dongles like the meizu or the hidisz S8 blow all existing dragonfly dongles away. Really. Dragonfly is just a toy made by a big cable brand, that's it.


----------



## Live with Sound

Baten said:


> The latest 2019 dongles like the meizu or the hidisz S8 blow all existing dragonfly dongles away. Really. Dragonfly is just a toy made by a big cable brand, that's it.



Sick. Happy I started looking into this before I got a D-Red. Do you know any 4 volt ones? I'll probably pull the plug on a TEMPOTEC SONATA HD PRO.


----------



## ZoomB

I was wondering if anyone who has tested some of these DACs can help me choose one . My budget is £35 unfortunately.

1. Lusya SA9023A + ES9018K2M USB portable DAC  ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html )

I've read good things about this and its apparently a rebrand of a differend DAC/AMP. Would it get hot if I keep it in use for 10 hours ?

2. Creative Sound Blaster Play!3 ( shorturl.at/euw05 )

Mixed reviews , apparently it sounds noisy

3. TempoTec SONATA HD PRO ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000328408705.html )

Good reviews and its my no1 candidate so far

4. Lusya HIFI TDA1543*4 ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32880513465.html )

This is the most intriguing one . From what I've read it does wonders to the sound and it due to some old but really nice Philips chipsets. Is it plug and play ? Would I  need to buy a case for it ?

5. XtremPro X1  ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01FQHBDI4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3O321HKJX56NP&psc=1 )

Again very good reviews and its supposed to be a rebrand of a different DAC.

6. The out of budget IBASSO DC01 ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/iBasso-USB-C-Adapter-2-5mm-Output/dp/B07RTRB5MR )

Is there a cheaper alternative to this one anywhere that is worth buying ? From what I understand I could actually use my balanced cable that campe with the headphones and get the best of both worlds, a better dac plus the balanced connection


----------



## Baten

I had the Lusya TDA one. It was crap sorry to say, very unlike high fidelity ...


----------



## OpiateSkittles

ZoomB said:


> I was wondering if anyone who has tested some of these DACs can help me choose one . My budget is £35 unfortunately.
> 
> 1. Lusya SA9023A + ES9018K2M USB portable DAC  ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html )
> 
> ...



I can't sing enough praises for the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro. It's an absolute steal at 40 dollars. The Hidizs S8 is the same thing with one extra cable for 80 or 90 and it'd be worth that. Both subjectively, and objectively, this thing punches WAY above its weight. Very clean and detailed, totally neutral, and the numbers on it are great. Seriously, don't even think about the other ones. Just get it.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 28, 2020)

ZoomB said:


> 4. Lusya HIFI TDA1543*4 ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32880513465.html )
> 
> This is the most intriguing one . From what I've read it does wonders to the sound and it due to some old but really nice Philips chipsets. Is it plug and play ? Would I  need to buy a case for it ?


Intriguing as it should give R2R sound. It is a board only and honestly... it cannot be any good. Four DAC chips alone take 1W power. It is already to much for a typical phone. And a passive output for a headphone? This is a nonsense.

Most of people are happy from Delta-Sigma converters, but If you are about R2R portable sound indeed (by example listening to a classical, jazz and all kind of acoustic instruments), there is another product I do recommend:
Nobsound 8x TDA1387 DAC/HPA

Eight chips TDA1387 take only 220mW (four times less). It gives compatibility with most of phones. There are two S/PDIF outputs and RCA sockets. There is a passive I/V conversion, better than using cheap opamps, but impedance matching is required. Most preamps are 47kOhms, should not give a problem. It sounds very good when connected to the home HiFi system. Not fatiguing at all, you will listen to more music, I promise.

The interface chip CM108 is oversampling 4x (I think), it takes only 16/44.1kHz or 48kHz source. Not very modern, but it is a low power solution and no drivers required. A typical Android output is 48kHz anyway.

A headphone amplifier is based on the TDA1308 chip. It drives my 19 Ohms Sennheiser HD4.50 BTNC easy. Wiith HD600 the power is not in excess. Those who are listening loud will complain. A sound is not very detailed, so I tried FiiO E12A. It is better, gives much more details, but I think it doesn't match sound signature of the DAC well, it sounds to thin and electric. It doesn't justify to carry extra box and cables.

In summary, Nobsound gives very good portable R2R sound. I was also using it for one year on desktop before purchasing an Audio GD R2R11 DAC/HPA and HD600. Nobsound is outclassed, but it is not a shame for $42 device. I still use a Nobsound with HD4.50 on the road, now less frequently because of lockout.


----------



## OpiateSkittles

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Just one word right now, the real deal is: TEMPOTEC SONATA HD PRO
> 
> Its 40$. Ultra small. Just have volume control. But the sound is smooth, wide, ultra transparent and clean...so refined for such low price.



Can't agree with this enough. At 40 dollars it smokes every other dongle, regardless of price. The lone exception might be the 9038s, but that has its caveats, too.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

OpiateSkittles said:


> Can't agree with this enough. At 40 dollars it smokes every other dongle, regardless of price. The lone exception might be the 9038s, but that has its caveats, too.



Yeah, I adore the TEMPOTEC HD PRO....only alternative in term of similar supreme bargain is surely the Meizu HIFI DAC PRO, selling for about same price but having independant amp section, so it do not have output matching like the HD PRO (kind only drawback i can find about this marvel).

FIIO BTR3K is intriguing too as it have dual AK4377 dac and its like 2 times cheaper than the GREAT BTR5. 

If you can find BTR5 on sale at around 100$ its really excellent.


----------



## OpiateSkittles

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> Yeah, I adore the TEMPOTEC HD PRO....only alternative in term of similar supreme bargain is surely the Meizu HIFI DAC PRO, selling for about same price but having independant amp section, so it do not have output matching like the HD PRO (kind only drawback i can find about this marvel).
> 
> FIIO BTR3K is intriguing too as it have dual AK4377 dac and its like 2 times cheaper than the GREAT BTR5.
> 
> If you can find BTR5 on sale at around 100$ its really excellent.


My Meizu is plagued by EMI noise due to bad shielding. It works fine over wifi, but over cellular it's completely unusable.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

OpiateSkittles said:


> My Meizu is plagued by EMI noise due to bad shielding. It works fine over wifi, but over cellular it's completely unusable.



what? that suck. didnt read that anywhere and i guess people use this on phone mostly....perhaps QC issue?

anyway, on NBBA group and lot of other audio groups it look like HD PRO is the favorite. It have volume contrrol which Meizu have not....and possibility to use different cable is a plus too.

Hum, im kinda searching something to buy right now (DAC, DAC_AMP or AMP)...but I want it to be supreme bargain like HD PRO lol...

Lately I use Walnut V2S with my Hifiman SUNDARA and it sound surprisingly great, I really suggest this ultra cheap DAP-DAC-AMP to everyone searching a fun but capable toy. A toy that sound excellent for its price. 20-25$.


----------



## vmiguel

ZoomB said:


> I was wondering if anyone who has tested some of these DACs can help me choose one . My budget is £35 unfortunately.
> 
> 1. Lusya SA9023A + ES9018K2M USB portable DAC  ( https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html )
> 
> ...



My daughter has one connected to a Raspberry with Volumio. It's been allways on for almost all of this covid time (over 1 month), all the setup inside a closed cardboard box. It only gets "normal electronics hot".

I don't know any of the other models, but I like the sound on this one. And I normaly use iFi nano Black Label and Fiio BTR5.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have posted my Video review about Topping E30. As many jokes, memes, and actual information as always! Leave a comment if you liked the video and the new style


----------



## sajunky

Not D30? It had good reviews, but what I received sounds rubbish. No more Topping.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sajunky said:


> Not D30? It had good reviews, but what I received sounds rubbish. No more Topping.



Seems everyone had issues with D30, but I didn't get to review it in time, they replaced it with E30, which sounds great. Seems Audiosciencereviews also measured good stuff for it. 

Not sure what the story was with D30 to be honest (?)


----------



## sajunky (May 4, 2020)

Dobrescu George said:


> Seems everyone had issues with D30, but I didn't get to review it in time, they replaced it with E30, which sounds great. Seems Audiosciencereviews also measured good stuff for it.
> 
> Not sure what the story was with D30 to be honest (?)


Well, D30 I received is different to the reviewed unit. The expensive SiTime oscilators are replaced with 30c no-name Chinese junk and I suspect fake opamps, as Realtek codec chip in a Sony Vaio laptop sounds better. This is what crap we can get from the authorised Topping supplier.

I suggest, you should review a portable Nobsound 8x TDA1387 DAC/HPA that costs only $42. I do promote this product, as it solved my problem with D30.


----------



## Baten

sajunky said:


> I suggest, you should review a portable Nobsound 8x TDA1387 DAC/HPA that costs only $42. I do promote this product, as it solved my problem with D30.


You realize these old TDA chips are also 99% sure to be chinese re-makes? the lusya TDA1387 I had sounded like crap, the included HPA had boomy high output impedance as well


----------



## sajunky (May 4, 2020)

Baten said:


> You realize these old TDA chips are also 99% sure to be chinese re-makes? the lusya TDA1387 I had sounded like crap, the included HPA had boomy high output impedance as well


You don't say which product you refer to. Lusya had a NOS TDA1387 board, this is all I know. It didn't create any attention from a DIY community. There is a different design made by a developer named Lee. This design is copied in numbers, as it was a stuff with good ideas, see some threads on the diyaudio.com:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diyaudio-com-wiki/276915-tda1387-x8-nos-dac.html
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...a1387-x8-dac-check-design-mod-play-music.html

There are also 4-chips versions. Most of them use an active I/F conversion which needs quality opamps, it is rare on AliExpress or Baobao. In the best case you would receive recycled opamps. If you order one, you would need to tweak to get the best results.

A Nobosund is different, it takes a minimalistic approach to make it portable and compatible with Android phones due to the low power requirements. Eight DAC chips create sufficient power to drive RCA outputs directly, so we have a passive I/V conversion, there is no danger to receive fake opamps. A headphone amp is TDA1308, which is quite decent in my opinion. It gives a real R2R sound, matching signature of the DAC, but it lacks details.

Regarding a comment on a fake DAC chip, it is nonsense. True, China is able to make copies of TDA1387 chip, but it is not worth it, as it cost 8c per piece. Cheaper is to recycle. Here is photo of my old Sound Blaster AWE card, these cards were manufactured in millions.


----------



## Baten

sajunky said:


> Regarding a comment on a fake DAC chip, it is nonsense. True, China is able to make copies of TDA1387 chip, but it is not worth it, as it cost 8c per piece. Cheaper is to recycle.


that's a fair point


----------



## Dobrescu George

sajunky said:


> Well, D30 I received is different to the reviewed unit. The expensive SiTime oscilators are replaced with 30c no-name Chinese junk and I suspect fake opamps, as Realtek codec chip in a Sony Vaio laptop sounds better. This is what crap we can get from the authorised Topping supplier.
> 
> I suggest, you should review a portable Nobsound 8x TDA1387 DAC/HPA that costs only $42. I do promote this product, as it solved my problem with D30.



Woah, that's interesting, I had no idea...


----------



## Dobrescu George

I have reviewed the Earstudio HUD100 in video, but be warned, there's a lot of memes, sass, and fun to be had if you decide to watch it. I've been asked for a more brutally honest approach, and I hope I delivered


----------



## Dobrescu George

I finished my in-depth written review about the Topping E30 DAC! I had quite a bit to tell about it, and happily it was mostly positive, pairings and comparisons with tons of other products included in the full article, as always!  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/05/scientifically-awesome-topping-e30-dac.html


----------



## Dobrescu George

Is this an obscure Chinese DAC/AMP??? I made a video about the Lotoo PAW S1, and it is also live now! I love this tiny DAC / AMP with a lot of power, it has 4.4mm Balanced output, and it also has an EQ! More details in the video review, along with my usual dose of memes, sass, and fun!


----------



## Makiah S (Jul 15, 2020)

Dobrescu George said:


> Seems everyone had issues with D30, but I didn't get to review it in time, they replaced it with E30, which sounds great. Seems Audiosciencereviews also measured good stuff for it.
> 
> Not sure what the story was with D30 to be honest (?)



I also never heard D30, tho I too quite like E30! A clear ste up from D10 I felt

I've also wrapped up my thoughts on it, so the review is both here on Head Fi and on my own blog


----------



## Abramz (Aug 27, 2020)

Got this one today from Neoteck store on Ali. Impressed. Clean and powerful, no bass cut-off on low impedance earbuds.



Cost me some 37$. Says opa2140 opamp used.


----------



## baskingshark

Abramz said:


> Got this one today from Neoteck store on Ali. Impressed. Clean and powerful, no bass cut-off on low impedance earbuds.
> 
> Cost me some 37$. Says opa2140 opamp used.



Got a link or name for this model?


----------



## Abramz (Aug 28, 2020)

Sorry man, it's unavailable now, and I can't find it. It's called something like "Neoteck HiFi Earphone Headphone Amplifier High Impedance 16-500 Omh Portable Amp Rechargeble HiFi Earphone Amplifier For iPhones
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mN2FsIR

It seems that I'm after some REALLY obscure things 
Same with the portable dac/amp from Proster 3C store. I was about posting some impressions, but found that I can't provide the link. But I can imagine that all this amps and dacs from both stores from the same OEM manufacturer. So if you want something really budget you can look into this.

Now that I ordered 8xtda1387 from nobsound, no wonder if it will be unavailable very soon. Same with the Xduoo XD-01, which is strangely pretty obscure now, never mind it's of famous brand. I will post impressions when I get them if someone will be interested in by then. I don't really know is it me or pandemic world or anything else.


----------



## wijnands

Is that Neoteck any good to put between an X1 mk2 and the 250 ohm beyerdynamic? I'm looking for something neutrl that just adds a little oomph


----------



## Abramz

wijnands said:


> Is that Neoteck any good to put between an X1 mk2 and the 250 ohm beyerdynamic? I'm looking for something neutrl that just adds a little oomph


Oh, I think your 250 ohm cans will be too much for this little thing. It seems so much load is for desktop setup or more pricey stuff if you want it portable. To answer such questions I use reference-audio-analyzer site, but again, you won't find really obscure stuff there. And of course, you can ask this question in your headphones' thread. Hope this helps.


----------



## wijnands

Problem with   reference-audio-analyzer  is that a lot of the equipment on there is already out of production. And my Russian is terrible.


----------



## Abramz

wijnands said:


> Problem with   reference-audio-analyzer  is that a lot of the equipment on there is already out of production. And my Russian is terrible.


What model of Beyerdynamic you have?


----------



## Abramz

Double post, sorry


----------



## wijnands

DT770 250 ohm


----------



## Abramz

wijnands said:


> DT770 250 ohm


I think they can take all the power you can throw at them portable way for sure. So it all depends on your money, sorry... 
Personally I like headphones pushed near the limit, in physical ways, not financial ))
Maybe Topping NX3s would be a safe bet?


----------



## baskingshark

Has anyone tried this new DAC/AMP, the Xduoo Xp-2Pro?
Selling at $120 - 140 on multiple platforms, Aliexpress etc

Specs look super good. Though I think it doesn't have balanced output. Might get it at the next sale if the reviews are good.







USB DAC: Yes , support
NFC Pairing: Yes , support
Noise Cancellation: Yes , support
Size: 105*55*15.6mm
Weight: 142G
Bluetooth Version: V5.0
Bluetooth Chip: CSR8675
Support Bluetooth Formats: SBC/AAC/APTX/APTX_LL/APTX_HD/LDAC
Charging time: about 3 hours
Output power: 300mW (32ohm)
Computer USB input: support Win7/8/10, MAC, iOS, Android system
Battery: 3.7V/1.800mAh


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

baskingshark said:


> Has anyone tried this new DAC/AMP, the Xduoo Xp-2Pro?
> Selling at $120 - 140 on multiple platforms, Aliexpress etc
> 
> Specs look super good. Though I think it doesn't have balanced output. Might get it at the next sale if the reviews are good.
> ...



Think this was discussed briefly by @ClieOS in BT DAC Amp thread. I'm unable to find the post as of now


----------



## rggz

Hey @FiiO, is there any ETA for this new Q3?


----------



## E8ArmyDiver (Sep 5, 2020)

Just discovered this EXCELLENT thread..I am a cheap SOB who LOVES great sound reproduction..It's a real shame the MORE $/BETTER Sound mentality permeates the entire hobby,there is so much fantastic sounding gear that doesn't cost much completely overlooked,especially by newbies because of this 1 reason..
For instance,your list should include the excellent APPJ Audio PA-1502 tube amplifier..Designed for Low Impedance headphones like Meze Empy/HiFiMan etc..Planar Magnetics at about $200.00 makes a world class rig with ANY low imp.headphone..
Right now I just got new HD800S & they have enough time on them now so I'm ready to hear them with a good tube amp..Oh sure Woo Audio used for $700.00 but I have this in my sights for $325.00..Add $75.00 for NOS 6SL7's & I already have a Matched & Balanced 1953 Mullard 12AX7 for the small signal tube,oh man for $400.00 I'm betting the Sennheiser HD800S just sings + it's a perfect visual match for my Burson Conductor 3P...


----------



## RockaRolla

E8ArmyDiver said:


> Just discovered this EXCELLENT thread..I am a cheap SOB who LOVES great sound reproduction..It's a real shame the MORE $/BETTER Sound mentality permeates the entire hobby,there is so much fantastic sounding gear that doesn't cost much completely overlooked,especially by newbies because of this 1 reason..
> For instance,your list should include the excellent APPJ Audio PA-1502 tube amplifier..Designed for Low Impedance headphones like Meze Empy/HiFiMan etc..Planar Magnetics at about $200.00 makes a world class rig with ANY low imp.headphone..
> Right now I just got new HD800S & they have enough time on them now so I'm ready to hear them with a good tube amp..Oh sure Woo Audio used for $700.00 but I have this in my sights for $325.00..Add $75.00 for NOS 6SL7's & I already have a Matched & Balanced 1953 Mullard 12AX7 for the small signal tube,oh man for $400.00 I'm betting the Sennheiser HD800S just sings + it's a perfect visual match for my Burson Conductor 3P...



I'm actually now looking into buying my first tube amp, and the APPJ PA1502A caught my attention. Been reading alot about it for past few weeks, and it got alot of rave reviews, which got me quite excited especially at such a low price. You mentioned that its designed for low impedance phones, but does it have enough power and drive for high impedance phones like HD600? I'm avoiding buying an OTL, because I have other low impedance phones as well.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver (Sep 6, 2020)

RockaRolla said:


> I'm actually now looking into buying my first tube amp, and the APPJ PA1502A caught my attention. Been reading alot about it for past few weeks, and it got alot of rave reviews, which got me quite excited especially at such a low price. You mentioned that its designed for low impedance phones, but does it have enough power and drive for high impedance phones like HD600? I'm avoiding buying an OTL, because I have other low impedance phones as well.


No that amp is specially designed for low impedance...The amp I showed in my reply is the best deal in new I've found that has good power into high impedance...Also I prefer transformer coupled,much better bass IMO...


----------



## Vruksha

Guys, new to this thread as well as dac/amp. It feels like a maze between multiple reviews but somehow I have found a What is your opinion about Topping L30+D10s combo?


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Vruksha said:


> Guys, new to this thread as well as dac/amp. It feels like a maze between multiple reviews but somehow I have found a What is your opinion about Topping L30+D10s combo?


IMO the iFi Zen DAC is hands down best bang for $ going & most likely outperforms the Topping stack...


----------



## sajunky

Toppings, iFi's are overpriced, users have to cover cost of marketing. If you want real bargain price, find yourself.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video review about the Sonata HD PRO and its actual usage 

Tiny thing, looks like a joystick, sounds good, but the volume buttons are less functional than they are cosmetic


----------



## LDBaha

Anyone know of an obscure tube amp that would work with some Beyer T1s? 
I have an Xduoo XD-05 Plus and the tiny but amazing X3II

But I am looking for a tube amp to help the super high impedance


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

LDBaha said:


> Anyone know of an obscure tube amp that would work with some Beyer T1s?
> I have an Xduoo XD-05 Plus and the tiny but amazing X3II
> 
> But I am looking for a tube amp to help the super high impedance


I've been searching for the same thing for my Sennheiser HD800S & THIS is the best bang for the buck amp,with good parts count,build quality based on my past experience & easily rolled tubes that are not very expensive that I have found...150mW@600 ohms seems a bit underpowered but with 102db.efficiency the T1's should be fine..There is also the Little Dot amps BUT this amp has MUCH better Transformers..Pretty bad A$$ for about $300.00...






































*Weiliang Breeze Audio WBAE200 Tube Headphone Amp class A HIFI EXQUIS Headset Amplifier E200*


----------



## S Crowther

I am using the TA-20 with RCA tubes for the HD800s and really like it.


----------



## LDBaha

E8ArmyDiver said:


> *Weiliang Breeze Audio WBAE200 Tube Headphone Amp class A HIFI EXQUIS Headset Amplifier E200*



Well that looks very interesting - the power is the only thing that concerns me. Have you tried it? I wonder how different the sound would be from my xDuoo XD-05. 
I went from a Schiit Jot and Aeon 2 Closed  to a budget set up with either used stuff or cheap chif-. I can't be happier and saved a ton of  money lol



S Crowther said:


> I am using the TA-20 with RCA tubes for the HD800s and really like it.


I REALLY like the TA-30 but its so expensive


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video about a few of those made by dd-Hifi 

If you know them, they make pretty nice stuff, and this review is about each of them and what each of them does. Some of them work as intended while others don't so I compiled a video about 4 of their products


----------



## S Crowther

LDBaha said:


> Well that looks very interesting - the power is the only thing that concerns me. Have you tried it? I wonder how different the sound would be from my xDuoo XD-05.
> I went from a Schiit Jot and Aeon 2 Closed  to a budget set up with either used stuff or cheap chif-. I can't be happier and saved a ton of  money lol
> 
> 
> I REALLY like the TA-30 but its so expensive


The TA-30 includes a DAC and is SE only so really quite different.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video review about the Atom PRO DAC from Hilidac / Audirect 

Nicely built, warm and thicc sound


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made an in-depth video review about the DAC X-6 from FX-Audio, interesting DAC, not the best performance, but great thing for a really smol price


----------



## KipNix

The hiss must be model specific because my original FX-Audio DAC-X6 , not the MKII, has NO  hiss. I use well made IEMs in it, too. I love mine. Thanks for the review.


----------



## Dobrescu George

KipNix said:


> The hiss must be model specific because my original FX-Audio DAC-X6 , not the MKII, has NO  hiss. I use well made IEMs in it, too. I love mine. Thanks for the review.



Always happy to help, interesting that yours had zero hiss with IEMs, maybe the unit I got was a bit iffy, there may be some unit-to-unit variation too.


----------



## Fat Larry

Best bang for $$ usb c DAC for mobile use??


----------



## Dobrescu George

Fat Larry said:


> Best bang for $$ usb c DAC for mobile use??



BTR5 comes to mind really quick if you have the money. Lower money go for iBasso DC01 stuff , Tempotec Sondata HD PRO or HILIDAC Beam2 

Higher budget, Nextdrvie spectrax


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Dobrescu George said:


> BTR5 comes to mind really quick if you have the money. Lower money go for iBasso DC01 stuff , Tempotec Sondata HD PRO or HILIDAC Beam2
> 
> Higher budget, Nextdrvie spectrax



Btr 3K is also a good budget alternative if BTR5 seems out of reach


----------



## Fat Larry (Nov 5, 2020)

I was kinda hoping to find something small/dongle sized to run off the phone in my pocket. The iBasso's look like they might fit the bill. I see there's the 01/03 etc. Much difference between them?

The  Nextdrvie spectrax looks like it'd fit the bill as well.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge (Nov 6, 2020)

Fat Larry said:


> I was kinda hoping to find something small/dongle sized to run off the phone in my pocket. The iBasso's look like they might fit the bill. I see there's the 01/03 etc. Much difference between them?
> 
> The  Nextdrvie spectrax looks like it'd fit the bill as well.



In that case, Tempotec Sonata and Meizu dongle are highly rated by the community. Should be amongst the options you consider


----------



## Fat Larry

Great thanks.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a video review about the Soundavo HP-DAC1, a pretty interesting competitor in the entry-midrange area, competitor mainly for K5 PRO


----------



## baskingshark

Hi, I'm posting this on behalf of a new headfier @Mori511 who has a question whether the Muses01 op amp he/she bought for the Topping Nx3s is defective. 

Video by Mori511 here:


Hope u can help advise!


----------



## baskingshark

baskingshark said:


> Hi, I'm posting this on behalf of a new headfier @Mori511 who has a question whether the Muses01 op amp he/she bought for the Topping Nx3s is defective.
> 
> Video by Mori511 here:
> 
> ...




Hi @Mori511 I asked a friend who is into op amps, he says NX3s can't supply 9V. So it looks like underpowering going on.


----------



## Mori511

baskingshark said:


> Hi, I'm posting this on behalf of a new headfier @Mori511 who has a question whether the Muses01 op amp he/she bought for the Topping Nx3s is defective.
> 
> Video by Mori511 here:
> 
> ...



Yes, I would very much would like to know everyone thought on this matter. My experience in Op amp is simply 2 month old though. So i was confuse whether this is defective case or incompatible problem with Topping Nx3s.
Also thanks to baskingshark for lending me a hand.


----------



## Mori511

baskingshark said:


> Hi @Mori511 I asked a friend who is into op amps, he says NX3s can't supply 9V. So it looks like underpowering going on.


Ok, so does under power problem cause that harsh static sound as side effect. Does most low power amp beside Nx3s inhibit same side effect. I mean the the static is as harsh as 1970s CRT in lost signal mode.


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

Has anyone had experience with Gaoghe EF03 which has Muses02 Op amp and retails around $43 on AliExpress. I have a Walnut F2 which has OPA2604 amp and drives well. For BT amp, I have Fiio BTR5. But want to try something new with a different sound signature. I'm a noob when it comes to amps. So anyone who has had experience with such amps please share your valuable inputs. In fact, if there are some budget recommendations then please share them as well. I'm not looking for a dongle type of amp. If it has balanced input then all the more welcome. My budget is max $50. Keeping things low as to I want to get a taste of things before moving up the ladder.


----------



## westsounds

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> So, I make an impulsive purchase for testing something really really cheap but that use same Dual DAC chip than Cambridge Dacmagic....
> it do not have metal case but can be plug right way by USB.
> 
> 
> ...



I just bought one of these (but one with a case), Im really impressed with it. A very easy going smooth analogue type sound, which makes a change from some of the the hyper clinical modern DACs. And value for money it's unreal.

Wish the Optical input worked  its an output only 

I even prefer it over my creative e5 and this was a DAC/AMP I played off against a few others as being a bit smoother and warmer. But swapping back and forth with the TDA the E5 sound a bit bright and sibilant, which I never thought it was before.

Wish I could find one with an optical input as well. I'd buy another if I could.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I already posted my in-depth written review about the Lotoo Paw S1, along with the video review, but I felt like having a full feature with it for the end of 2020 

This is a very funny / comedic video for audiophiles, please have a look and let me know how you feel about it


----------



## Dobrescu George

It is kinda sad that this one is obscure, cuz it deserves far more love  

Singxer SDA-2 comes with all the features of a flagship DAC/AMP, but a pocket-friendly price 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...singxer-sda-2-balanced-dac-headphone-amp.html


----------



## Baten

Dobrescu George said:


> It is kinda sad that this one is obscure, cuz it deserves far more love
> 
> Singxer SDA-2 comes with all the features of a flagship DAC/AMP, but a pocket-friendly price
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2...singxer-sda-2-balanced-dac-headphone-amp.html


I'm more interested in the all-discrete class-A SDA-1 amplifier! Link
People have been favourably comparing it to Topping A90, another dual mono but chip-based amp.


----------



## sajunky (Feb 9, 2021)

Baten said:


> I'm more interested in the all-discrete class-A SDA-1 amplifier! Link
> People have been favourably comparing it to Topping A90, another dual mono but chip-based amp.


SA-1.
I would agree, but... Dual sealed SMPS (for +/-/GND rails) spreading ground loops? Undisclosed input impedance?

They didn't learn anything from Topping A90 (noisy, unusable SE inputs) or made the same mistake in parallel. They can win against A90 (and other THX789 likes), class A is promising, but I would not buy it. At least Soekris has learned on mistakes and a new DAC2541 is free of such visible negligence.

For there same price there is already a winner:
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1AMP/NFB1AMPEN19.htm

@Dobrescu George. Can you post a photo of a PCB? The input impedance is also not shown in a specsheet, it is suspicious. A feature set is good, I2S is very important these days. Thanks for review.


----------



## Baten

sajunky said:


> SA-1.
> I would agree, but... Dual sealed SMPS (for +/-/GND rails) spreading ground loops? Undisclosed input impedance?
> 
> They didn't learn anything from Topping A90 (noisy, unusable SE inputs) or made the same mistake in parallel. They can win against A90 (and other THX789 likes), class A is promising, but I would not buy it. At least Soekris has learned on mistakes and a new DAC2541 is free such of a visible negligence.
> ...


-it should not have any of mentioned A90 problems! no uber low input impedance, check
-I wouldn't trust Audio-GD to make a good headphone amp, thoroughly dislike the brand. The Soekris 2541 is truly superb though yeah, but kind of a difference device(dac/amp) and price class (€1460 with VAT).


----------



## sajunky

Baten said:


> -it should not have any of mentioned A90 problems! no uber low input impedance, check
> -I wouldn't trust Audio-GD to make a good headphone amp, thoroughly dislike the brand. The Soekris 2541 is truly superb though yeah, but kind of a difference device(dac/amp) and price class (€1460 with VAT).


Soekris a good design, it has no longer dual sealed SMPS's. It is what I was talking about, not about its superiority. For a lower price you can get R2R DAC with NOS as a main feature, 2541 is not, but it is off topic. The same with your bullying comment on Audio GD.

You must explain to us why SA-1 shouldn't have problems similar to A90. It is a bizzare statement, contrary to the photographic evidence.


----------



## Dobrescu George

sajunky said:


> SA-1.
> I would agree, but... Dual sealed SMPS (for +/-/GND rails) spreading ground loops? Undisclosed input impedance?
> 
> They didn't learn anything from Topping A90 (noisy, unusable SE inputs) or made the same mistake in parallel. They can win against A90 (and other THX789 likes), class A is promising, but I would not buy it. At least Soekris has learned on mistakes and a new DAC2541 is free such of a visible negligence.
> ...



What am I looking for to help?  

I never opened the things I'm reviewing...


----------



## sajunky

Dobrescu George said:


> What am I looking for to help?
> 
> I never opened the things I'm reviewing...


No problem. you don't have to be technical investigator, thank you for what you do well.


----------



## Dobrescu George

My new in-depth written review, this time about the XD-05Plus from XDuoo and Xtenik Audio is live now!! If you're looking for one of the AMPs with the most driving power, but also with an ergonomic design for that power, the XD-05Plus is really hard to miss. 

I liked it with many pairings, and I feel like xDuoo is often overlooked because it is budget, but it may be a better overall option than even TR-AMP and other large house names  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/02/versatility-ultimate-xduoo-xd-05-plus-dac-amplifier.html


----------



## psycho84

groucho69 said:


> Vocabulary is appreciated but not necessary. Just say what you think.


Ok. So my 2 cents regarding GaoGe EF03:
After some use I can only say that this GaoGe EF03 (https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/byGphEbI) sounds pretty good! It definitely has enough power to go pretty loud with my BeyerDynamic DT770 250ohm. I can notice that directly of laptop (even though laptop also makes DT770 loud), the sound when it comes through GaoGe is better. Seems that bass is more precise and sound overall is more detailed. I love the red color I've ordered, it is not boring as the black one and looks a bit like those Scarlet amps. Battery lasts for 6-7 hours with one charge.

Bad things are: For some reason, one screw is unscrewing on its own. Volume knob feels a bit cheap. Output jack after a year of use can get cracking noise sometimes which is solved by unplug and plug again or just moving the amp a bit.


----------



## Hemanse (Mar 14, 2021)

Hi.

Anyone that happens to know anything about this brand  https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08CVG6YV4 . Im looking for a cheap AMP/DAC in that price range. I saw a few people doing reviews on the FOSI Audio Q4 and this looks identical. Im guessing that both are just rebranded products, but other than that identical.

The AIYIMA is 10-15€ less, so if its the same as the FOSI, i cant see any need to spend more


----------



## sajunky

Please use this link with tracking data removed from the URL:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08CVG6YV4


----------



## Hemanse

sajunky said:


> Please use this link with tracking data removed from the URL:
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08CVG6YV4


Edited the message, had no real idea that's how it worked


----------



## psycho84

Hemanse said:


> Hi.
> 
> Anyone that happens to know anything about this brand  https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B08CVG6YV4 . Im looking for a cheap AMP/DAC in that price range. I saw a few people doing reviews on the FOSI Audio Q4 and this looks identical. Im guessing that both are just rebranded products, but other than that identical.
> 
> The AIYIMA is 10-15€ less, so if its the same as the FOSI, i cant see any need to spend more


Well, this GaoGe EF03 amp I was writing about is actually sold under Aiyima name on Aliexpress, and I've been pretty satisfied with it. So they seem to be OK, at least in my case. Sound is clear and full. 
If you are willing to extend (two times) your money range, you can get E1DA 9038D (I've ordered one and waiting) or 9038S (balanced) for around 90-95 euro. These are probably best ones for the money as they surpass many twice or three times as expensive DAC/AMPs in sound quality and power.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made a full review about the Soundavo HP-1 DAC  

It is a good piece for the money for sure  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/03/soundavo-hp-1-dac-headphone-amp-the-great-entry.html


----------



## Dobrescu George

I really like the new Ikko zerda, good power, excellent sound, good build

Made a viddy about it


----------



## westsounds

so what are the best cheapest DACs 0-50 , 50-100, 100-150 euros pounds dollars whatever. Aliexpress anywhere?


----------



## Barusu Lamperouge

westsounds said:


> so what are the best cheapest DACs 0-50 , 50-100, 100-150 euros pounds dollars whatever. Aliexpress anywhere?


Assuming under 150 USD, you can get Fiio BTR5 and Qudelix 5K. Probably the only DAC you need as it serves multiple use cases.


----------



## sajunky

westsounds said:


> so what are the best cheapest DACs 0-50 , 50-100, 100-150 euros pounds dollars whatever. Aliexpress anywhere?


It is what this thread is about. Read a @#$%^ thread.


----------



## westsounds

sajunky said:


> It is what this thread is about. Read a @#$%^ thread.


@#$% you! 

OK I'll try, Im just lazy.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made an in-depth written review about the HUD100 MK2. They got it right, guys! I like it now, good driving power, excellent overall unit  

Great job to the guys at @radsone  

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/05/earstudio-hud100-mk-ii-dac-amp-all-grown-up.html


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Dobrescu George said:


> I made an in-depth written review about the HUD100 MK2. They got it right, guys! I like it now, good driving power, excellent overall unit
> 
> Great job to the guys at @radsone
> 
> https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/05/earstudio-hud100-mk-ii-dac-amp-all-grown-up.html


bro....sincerly....can you not ''spam'' all my threads it begins to be invasive really....this thread isn't even active. I come back and well...depressing a little.


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

So their ALOT going on in budget DAC-AMPS worlds....dunno why i was gone all this time, this list will have *IMPORTANT UPDATE SOON PROMISE!*

But i need to try more sub-200$ option.

Anyway, i have some new DONGLES CRUSH, like the JCALLY JM20 which use a cirrus CS43131 to deliver decently powerfull amping with crisp, transparent, reference tuned sound. The real price is 15$, but lately it begin to go up....


I order some random ES9280C dongle that sound very good too, 30$. Its very similar to BEAM2 single ended.

What I mean, is that their some kind of dongle revolution right now in China...on ALI X...it does change the game alot.


----------



## sajunky

Please make sure to include a Nobsound 8xTDA1387 DAC/HPA.


----------



## Dobrescu George

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> bro....sincerly....can you not ''spam'' all my threads it begins to be invasive really....this thread isn't even active. I come back and well...depressing a little.



Well, you started a convo about them, I tried my best to keep em going...


----------



## NymPHONOmaniac

Dobrescu George said:


> Well, you started a convo about them, I tried my best to keep em going...


lol yeah, i think its just the pic that take too much place lol apart from this i would be ok....anyway, im no boss here...

im more a fan of amping section of XD05+ than DAC, and well, even amp isnt very clean and go higher and higher in THD when we crank the volume...

whats you best amp-dac find under 200$, like...something that sincerly puzzle your mind about price value????


----------



## Dobrescu George

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> lol yeah, i think its just the pic that take too much place lol apart from this i would be ok....anyway, im no boss here...
> 
> im more a fan of amping section of XD05+ than DAC, and well, even amp isnt very clean and go higher and higher in THD when we crank the volume...
> 
> whats you best amp-dac find under 200$, like...something that sincerly puzzle your mind about price value????



Only very recently discovered HUD100 MKII . Earmen Sparrow sounded nice, but is right in 200 USD. Shanling UA2 is a top dog, but drains some batt from a phone 

I like XD05+ too, but it is a bit narrow in stage for my typical taste.


----------



## Head-dicted

NymPHONOmaniac said:


> I have one. Its not good. not powerfull with like 125mW@32ohm. take a WALNUT V2S or Zishan Z2 instead....its more powerfull and can be used as a DAP too. It's smaller but thicker.


I also have one of this model since 2019 and likeit. I m not a very HiFi fan but like good audio. used mailny for my TV  audio and the digital TV decoder with a bit trebly audio Useful to check the broadacsters and listen to nice music programs A Samsung TV and AKG 81DJ or 77 are used


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## cappuchino (Jun 22, 2021)

Anyone ever heard of the sub-60 USD Bluetooth Desktop DAC/Amp, KGUSS BH3?

Well, for those that are curious, I have it here 😉

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ES9038Q2M
CSR8675 (Bluetooth 5.0; LDAC-capable)
2 x JRC-5532DD
WIMA and Nichicon capacitors

---



Spoiler: INITIAL IMPRESSIONS



Initial Sound Impressions:

Warmer than neutral DAC/Amp, if comparing to my neutral-to-bright HUD100 MK2. Midrange is a treat with this one - weightier and more pleasant (fatigue-free). Treble's less harsh and smoother so it is very easy to listen to badly recorded tracks. However, the BH3 does add mid-bass warmth. Will be dependent on preference and needs. Clarity and transparency are adversely affected.

Can't determine yet it's effects, if there are any, on the other aspects of SQ (technicalities and such) as I've only had them for a day. So just the initial signature for now.


Driving Power:

Don't have measurements but have tested them with IEMs and headphones. Currently do not have high impedance earbuds. My usual listening volume is low-medium.

*In clock hands (o' clock). Just estimates as there is no marking.

HIFIMAN HE400se - 9.8
HIFIMAN DEVA - ~8.3
KZ DQ6 - ~7 (exception as it is at medium volume)
Moondrop SSP - ~7.7

*Compared to HUD100 MK2 (bypass, high power). Same order. n/100.

- 29/100
- 17/100
- 1/100
- 8/100

*Please take this with a grain of salt as this was done by ear only

---

Does it "open-up" the planar headphones? To an extent, yes.

Is there hiss with rather sensitive IEMs? With the DQ6, hiss manifests at 12 o' clock when not playing anything.

Are the components (op-amp, capacitors, etc.) legit/authentic? I have nooooo idea.

---

Forgot to mention - this is a BLUETOOTH DAC/AMP. My phone recognizes it as AAC/SBC/APTX/APTX-HD/LDAC capable. However, for some unknown reason, I can't activate APTX-LL, even through developer options. Bluetooth connection is very stable, without any random disconnections. Distance, as well, and I was able to walk around my house, phone in pocket, without losing connection (will of course depend on device used).

---

Build is all metal, even the volume knob (satisfyingly smooth turning). Has rubber feet so the BH3 sliding off your desk is not a problem.
Packaging is nondescript - just a cardboard box with a USB-C cable, antenna and the BH3 itself.

---

Op-amp appears to be hot-swappable but I haven't tried removing them from the board. I think it can also function wired through USB-C but that testing will be reserved for another day.

Interestingly, with the DQ6, there is a noticeably big loudness jump from the lowest volume, ~6 o' clock and 7 o'clock. Also perceivable channel imbalance in that "gap" but disappears once you get past said gap. With the other IEMs I have, this phenomenon wasn't observed.







 





 





 





 




Bought it here. Check Lazada store for more details.


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## sajunky

Thanks @cappuchino. It looks very nice design and a quality components!


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## hidehide

Anyone will experience on Lead Audio CMD32? I’m looking to see if it is a good fit with my LCD3…


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## Head-dicted

My neotek NTK059 amp
Very nice trebly audio
Around 6 hours battery but stops abruptly
Used mostly with digital TV receiver
Used for around 3 years but limited usage
Any opinions here


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## chris.d.m.

Some good / helpful thoughts here.  

Still hunting for $100-200 portable dac/amp for the LCD X's that won't bring "too much" of a compromise. 
Of course if could afford an idsd micro, I'd bet that would rock.


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## Dobrescu George

If you love MQA, but also love Bluetooth and want a freeing solution to listen to your favorite IEMs, FiiO designed something new, or rather made their BTR5 Receiver even better this time! 

They made a 2021 variant of their popular BTR5, added MQA support, and upgraded the DAC chip, and now, after some serious testing, I can say for sure that if you listen to LDAC and enforce it to play in the proper resolution, you shouldn't hear any differences between LDAC and RedBook FLAC files or CDs  

At least, this is how it looks like when comparing the DAC mode vs the LDAC mode of the new BTR5. I made many more remarks and personal notes in today's full written review about the sequel to the most popular Bluetooth Receiver, the new FiiO BTR5 2021!! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/10/fiio-btr5-2021-mqa-freedom-at-the-end.html


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## Dobrescu George

Today's a fine day for music!! 

If you need an ultraportable DAC/AMP with a full metallic body, I present you FD1 by HiBy Music~ 

This is a tiny, yet wild-spirited DAC/AMP with Type-C, a Balanced output, Single Ended, it works with both Android and Windows environments!! 

More info in today's full written review about the Square One, FD One! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2021/11/hiby-fd1-dac-amp-square-one-musics-fun.html


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## NymPHONOmaniac

Time to come back into this abandoned thread...cause I have heard quite alot of DAC-AMP since then...but my last crush, which is a VERY intense one is the *TRI TK-2*....literally can't stop using it.
With my Hifiman SUNDARA.
Man....i was sure to hate ES9038q2m until i hear this DAC-AMP powerhouse.
1250mw@32ohm balanced way. And truly portable if you have big pocket.
TRI isnt known for DAC-AMP, but they have collaborated with an excellent audio company call KAEI, know for their expertise in amplifier tech...
While the feature are basic and its ''just'' a DAC-AMP with lot of type of ouput, it can be end game desktop and portable DAC-AMP due to its powerful amping.
Anyway, I will share more impressions here about this, but this TRI TK-2 is a masterpiece. The dual ES9038 are properly implemented...and put to shame Zishan Z4 and Topping D10S.
No sub-bass roll-off. Note have weight. Dynamic have heft. Treble is balanced. Timbre is natural....man.OK. This might seem pricey at 280$ but it kindafeel portable end game to me.


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## Jumbolilit

cappuchino said:


> Anyone ever heard of the sub-60 USD Bluetooth Desktop DAC/Amp, KGUSS BH3?
> 
> Well, for those that are curious, I have it here 😉
> 
> ...


Great find, man! Did it give a bit more juice (and bass) to power your HE400se? Looking to buy that - thx in advance!


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## Dobrescu George

Let's start the day with a nice DAC/AMP, the DH80 from Hidizs!! Tons of power, good control, and an improved sound for their AP80 PRO series of music players, plus matching colors, and reliable extra battery to make for a fun experience! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2022/02/hidizs-dh80-dac-amp-supporting-ap80-sound.html


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## LaughMoreDaily

Dobrescu George said:


> IThey made a 2021 variant of their popular BTR5, added MQA support, and upgraded the DAC chip, and now, after some serious testing, I can say for sure that if you listen to LDAC and enforce it to play in the proper resolution, you shouldn't hear any differences between LDAC and RedBook FLAC files or CDs


So you're saying no matter what format of music you listen to it all sounds amazing with no difference between the formats?


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## Dobrescu George

LaughMoreDaily said:


> So you're saying no matter what format of music you listen to it all sounds amazing with no difference between the formats?



BTR5 2021 in particulat sounds very similar between formats. Most other sources have higher diffeences...


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## LaughMoreDaily

Dobrescu George said:


> BTR5 2021 in particulat sounds very similar between formats. Most other sources have higher diffeences...


That sounds like a bad thing, no?


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## Dobrescu George

LaughMoreDaily said:


> That sounds like a bad thing, no?



Can be both good and bad. I know that most sources will show differences between file types and source files, so it means that both it is very optimised, but it has a ceiling of quality it won't go above even if you feed it just hi res files


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## NymPHONOmaniac

I just receive the *XDUOO LINK2 BAL*.....man this is sure a power beast, be cautious when you plug it.....the built blow my mind too, super sturdy and all these physical button is SO needed imo

In term of sound, thats very first impressions with UM 3DT (which im not super afound of so....). Firstly, it doesnt sound like the Tempotec BHD at all, again a proof DAC implementation is crucial for final sound presentation.....or independant amping section? Now with FINAL A8000, it isnt as bright (yeah, 3DT timbre kinda suck). man, i need more listen as said....its a surprising sound im not familiar with.

It's crisp but not harsh, very energic and revealing, timbre is very textured, its VERY generous in sound info, same level than ES9038q2m in that regard but with thicker rounder timbre. This isn't a boring dongle at all. The UM 3DT arent easiest to drive and man, at 1/4 of volume its super loud balanced way at high gain, or 4/10 for low gain, which offer slightly cleaner sound.

Yep, this is a NEW sound flavor hourray. Now its time to fully taste it before sharing valuable thoughs and impressions.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

I'm back on the DAC-AMP track guys. WHy? Well, because of this:




It just keep piling up so it would be selfish to not share impressions about them!

My fav in there are Tri TK2, Xduoo Link2 Bal, Tempotec E44 and HD V.

I just receive the FIIO KA1, very good and tonaly more appealing than KA3, which is more analytical lean bright...

On the way: Questyle M15. I'm Extremely excited about this one!

Oh, and I have the new Xduoo Poke II, will share pic, i struggle to find musicality in this one even if technical performance are insane....surely the cleanest dac-amp I heard, more transparent and delicatly detailed too, yet, dynamic is lean, even leaner than Tempotec HD Pro-Jcally JM20.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

See how small is the FIIO KA1 compared to KA3, i really like the form factor and built seem very sturdy.

First thing I do when I go this, apart from comparing fastly to KA3 that have near polar opposite tonality, is to compare it to the AUDIRECT ATOM2 which use same ES9281C DAC but with extra OPamp section. I don't know which OPamp it is, but it sure affect the resolution while giving a little more power than KA1 (65mw vs 45mw) that doesnt really translate in more energic dynamic....in fact, i was thinking KA1 is more powerfull due to the more punchy and open sound.

KA1 is cleaner and more detailed with better accuracy and resolution. This make the Atom2 feel a bit blurry in definition, we can say euphonic too but unlike Xduoo Link2 Bal it doesnt translate in a lush open holographic presentation. Sens of silence between note and instrument isn't there compared to KA1. So, warmer and dirtier is the Atom2. To some extend this remind me comparison between Tempotec E44 and Xduoo Link2 Bal, since i find technical performance better with E44 due to more accurate attack timing and overall cleaner noise floor and resolution, but fact Xduoo have near 100mw more of amping power and thicker lusher timbre make me prefer it's tonality as well as all it's features.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

My review of FIIO KA1 is complete. 
And right now its on sale for 35$ on Ali express Jade Audio store, which make it a no brainer bargain unless you need high power output. 
https://nobsaudiophile.com/2022/05/05/2927/

I hope this thread will come back alive....we need diversity of impressions about DAC-AMP and dongles.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

aaaaaand I just receive today something phenomenal, the much expected QUESTYLE M15!











I'm in awe right now....lively dynamic, full and transparent timbre, ultra fast and snappy attack timing, natural sustain-release, ultra black noise floor, and very powerfull!

Reference sound that offer high level of both technicality and musicality.

Very different than Xduoo Link2 Bal sound wise, cleaner, more detailed and faster in dynamic....deeper in spatiality too, while Link2 is denser warmer in timbre and overal tonality is more analog like....

Its the first Questyle product I ever try....the expectation was very high but i was afraid about 2 things: amping power and dynamic due to current amping type (Xduoo Poke II have current amp and dynamic is ultra lean-cold even distant). Let say it surpass all my expectation.


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## NymPHONOmaniac

My detailed review of the QUESTYLE M15 is up here on headfi and HERE on my No Borders Audiophile blog.
Simply put, its the new high end dongle benchmark in term of hi fidelity rendering with lively dynamic.
It sound like having a portable SMSL SU9 DAC+SMSL SH9 THX AMP but with weightier dynamic, yet lower power output.
*Pros:* 
-Clear and neutral sound with lively dynamic
-Excellent Pace, rythm and timing (PRaT) performance
-Great imaging with open spatiality
-realist timbre with good transparency
-weighty dynamic
-clean linear current amping
-gain switch
-more powerfull than the specs suggest (75mw@32ohm)
-doesn’t get hot or drown battery too fast
-best ES9281C DAC implementation i heard
-great balance between technical and musical audio decoding
-versatile pairing with high sensitivity and high impedance IEM
-unique geeky design for circuit board lover

*Cons:* 
-while powerfull, it will struggle to drive very low sensitivity IEM or Headphones
-micro-definition isn’t the cleanest nor the sharpest
-bass and treble seem just slightly tamed
-glass cover can be scratched and is worrysome for durability
-protective case make it hard to use gain switch


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## NymPHONOmaniac

Better late than never, my Tempotec E44 review is up here:
https://nobsaudiophile.com/2022/06/17/tempotec-e44-review-sooooo-delicious/

Simply put, it's still the best dongle from Tempotec, second one would be HD V, third one HD PRO.
You got a very similar tonality than Xduoo Link2 Bal but with hint better technical performance in term of clarity, resolution, imaging and attack control. (and near 100mw less power output at 180mw vs 270mw for Xduoo)
Biggest drawback to me its the single buton volume control which is too sensible to touch.


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