# 38 Portable Amps Review



## mrarroyo

It has been about 9 months since Rob (Vorlon1) and I did a portable amp comparison. Since then I have had an idea of going back and adding additional amps. I hope that the additional listening time and perspective of all these months allows us to provide a better insight especially as we all growth in this hobby.

 The initial comparison took on a humorous turn when we decided to write the comparison from two perspectives, kind of along the ways that Siskel and Ebert & the Movies used to be. Since that review many portable amps have come and gone with a select few remaining constant. Thus we decided to get together and see if we could add value to our old write-up.

 On this first post I will attempt to set up the stage by first copying here the 1st post the review and pictures we did about 9 months ago. On the second post I will post pictures of the latest get together and a list of the equipment used. I should point that for this second installment we had a third member, Ron (HiFlight).

 Finally on the third post I will attempt to add notes from this second get together and arrange the portable amp rankings from my perspective. I look forward to both Rob (Vorlon1) and Ron (HiFlight) post their comments as well as the additional pictures they took. I will take their pictures and add them to the 2nd post. Their rankings will be added to the third post so that you the end user have only three posts to get the overall idea.

 Chances are that as the thread develops we may change some of these ideas with the intent to make for a more enjoyable reading experience. Be advised we are posting our opinions, which in no way are neither the last nor the best. Hope you gain from reading but most importantly that it makes you want to go out and listen to more music and some of the great equipment available.

 The following is a copy of a post I made back in 10/14/06. It can be found at: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...04&postcount=1

 Today Vorlon1 and I got together to go over a few portable amps. Specifically we had:

 -PA2V2
 -Go-Vibe 5
 -LaRocco PRII
 -Ray Sammuel SR71
 -Ray Sammuel The Hornet "M" with about 225 hours of burn in
 -Dr. Xin Supermini IV
 -Dr. Xin Supermicro IV
 -Xenos 0HA-REP
 -Pint Amp made by DieInAFire
 -Pint Amp made by MisterX (the one in the Hammond case)
 -Practical Devices XM3

 We also had at our disposal two home amps, these were:

 -Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 (un-modded)
 -LaRocco Home PPA

 For sources we had:

 -4th Generation 60 Gb iPod Photo with the iWine Mod
 -5th Generation 60 Gb iPod Video
 -4th Generation 60 Gb iPod Photo

 For interconnects we had:

 -ALO cotton mini to mini IC
 -ALO cotton mini to rca IC
 -Blue Jean Cable mini to rca IC
 -Turbo mini to mini IC
 -Pocket Dock

 For headphones we had:

 -2005 Beyer DT990
 -2003 Beyer DT880
 -A +/-15 year old Beyer DT990
 -Westone UM2 with ear molds for Vorlon1
 -Sennheiser HD600 with Headphile Senn V2 cable in Black Silver
 -Etymotic ER4S

 Here are some thumbnails taken, click on them to see the full size picture.













 Vorlon1 and I will write a single impression which will get posted in an upcomming post. Hopefully it will help some prospective buyers or it may just confuse you further 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . I can say I had a lot of fun listening to so much gear.

 The following is a post I made on 10/18/06. It can be found at: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...8&postcount=21

 Everything writen in blue below was done by mrarroyo, in red by Vorlon1. 

Here is the write-up, hopefully it will be helpful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Doing a product comparison is not only a demanding task but most important it is a means to clear up some misconceptions on what you thought was good and ends up being average. It is also an opportunity to be surprised by equipment that you did not expect to fare well yet against all odds it surprises you.

 That was the case, at least for me (mrarroyo). Another thing I should mention is that the particular setting was very appropriate for comparing equipment, since it was a quiet office environment with no visual distractions, with comfortable seating arrangements as well as a good table to use as a platform. I say this because in some meets the sound level gets a bit loud, this is great for making new friends and to express yourself openly. However the noise and coming and going of people can definitely influence the way you perceive a particular piece of equipment.

Vorlon 1: Maybe we will end up the Ebert and Roper of the Head-Fi set, but I have some doubts. I’m glad Miguel found the environment so conducive to good listening. I, on the other hand, was expecting my staff to bang down my door any second with some crisis or other. It was quiet in there though, and we had plenty of equipment to listen to.

In my (mrarroyo) case I started comparing equipment with The Hornet “M” as my base against which I compared the various other offerings. My impressions were:

Vorlon 1: Generally I use the SR-71 as my baseline for comparison because of its many sonic attributes. (Impact, weight, clarity and detail for example). 

mrarroyo: SR-71: Here I was surprised, based on my initial comparison about a year ago in which the SR-71 was the clear winner in every category I could think of. This time around it still came ahead in the clarity and detail departments. However, the differences were subtle, The Hornet “M” was a more fun and involving amp with a really great bass. Neither is better than the other, just different. An analogy I can offer is that both my AKG K701 and my Beyer DT990 sound different but both are fantastic cans. If you are looking for an amp to constantly carry around due to a hectic schedule I would recommend The Hornet “M,” it allows you to switch cans on the go without having to worry if they would be overpowered by the amp or worry that the amp won’t be able to drive them. All of this thanks to the gain switch, do not forget that it has a built in charger which would allow the user to get two wall warts, one for the office and one for home without having to worry about running out of juice or having to carry an additional battery. On the other hand if most of your listening will be at one location then the SR-71 would be a better choice. I would also choose the SR-71 if most of my listening is of classical or jazz.

Vorlon 1: mrarroyo’s Hornet really impressed me. I had an original Hornet some time ago, but I sold it because I found it too intense on the treble end and harsh sounding on many recordings. The M version has no such problem. It is warm, but very well defined and clear, with a bigger and deeper soundstage than the un-modded version. Guitar notes are sharp and clear, and vocals have detail and subtlety and a more forward presentation than the SR-71, but a pleasant degree of forwardness. I really like the presentation and tonality of the M Hornet.

mrarroyo: Go-Vibe 5: Ok, for this one I will put on my flameproof suit. Yes, the overall winner in sound quality is The Hornet “M,” however the differences IMO are very minute. The Hornet “M” does have an advantage on features such as again switch, rechargeable battery, and smaller size. However, if you are on a budget the difference in sound is not justified by the increase in price (390.50/82=4.76). By the way, those who may be concerned about theft will find that having the Go-Vibe 5 would give them the flexibility to carry a top of the line amplifier (soundwise) and not be paranoid at loosing $400 due to being mugged.

Vorlon 1: I got a Go-Vibe 5 soon after they became available and I like this amp very much and think it is a fantastic value at its price. I think it has many qualities of the SR-71 and Hornet without having all the refinement of the SR-71 or all the warmth and simultaneous clarity of the Hornet. We used mrarroyo’s Go-vibe and I thought it had a bit more warmth and sounded more like his Hornet than my Go-vibe which seems slightly less warm, but very open and clear.

mrarroyo: Pints: We had two available, one built by DieInAFire (mint case) and the other by MisterX (hammond case). I really liked the sound out of the MisterX Pint and when I compared it to the Go-Vibe 5 and The Hornet it was very close to the point I do not think I would not be able to tell them apart in a double blind test. However seeing them I would choose the Go-Vibe 5 and The Hornet over them.

Vorlon 1: The DieInAFire Pint originally had an AD 8397 in it, but I found it too upfront and asked him to modify it with an LM 6172, which he did. I find this very smooth and clean, with very good detail and a pleasant uncolored sound. The other Pint was originally in a mint tin also, but MisterX , who did not build the original version of it, was kind enough to put it in a Hammond case and put an LM 6172 in it also. It uses one 9V battery instead of two, which the DieInAFire Pint uses. It sounds similar, but I don’t think the bass is as weighty on it as the two battery version. A great amp for less than 100 dollars if you can still find the boards.

mrarroyo: Practical Devices XM3: This little amp is a great bargain overall, its only drawback is its implementation of the crossfeed since it loses a lot of volume but most importantly clarity/detail when the crossfeed is engaged. It does have various unique features such as gain switch, variable crossfeed, you can roll OP Amps, built in charger, a way to program how long you would like to have the amp on for, and a system to let you know the voltage remaining in the battery. Sound quality wise I would say it is close to the Pint by MisterX but just a tad less detail and punch.

Vorlon 1: I bought this one to see what it was like. I like the design and looks and it has entertaining features, but the crossfeed wasn’t so hot. I think it can be adjusted, but I never use crossfeed anyway so it was left at the default setting. It is a clean sounding pleasant amp, but nothing to write home about. 

mrarroyo: Xenos OHA-REP: You know what they say about chocolate and vanilla? There are some people who truly love one but do not want anything to do with the other? Well, although in my case the differences were not as pronounced, this amp is not for me. I can’t honestly say it did anything wrong but at the same time it did not do anything extraordinary either. At its price I would choose the Go-Vibe 5. I will say I like the built in recharger, its smaller size, built in clip that by the way it is detachable. I do believe when OP Amp rolling is added this amp will merit a second look.

Vorlon 1: This little amp has a lot of power and gain and will drive high impedance cans very well, but I honestly find the sound mediocre. It’s not that it sounds bad, it is smooth sounding and tonally it is fine, but I like amps that let you hear background details very clearly, like the high hats in the back of a small jazz combo. These details are present with the Xenos, but the finer points of them seem lost in the mist, so to speak, they don’t sparkle like with an SR-71 which is excellent at reproducing those details.

mrarroyo: PA2V2: This amp has a special significance since it was the first portable amp I ever owned. Listening to it again brought back its abilities and limitations. If you only have $60 get it, especially if you have Grado or Etymotic cans. This little amp is made to drive Grado/Etymotic a job it does extremely well. When you put into the equation the excellent service that Gary provides it makes this amp an easy amp to own.

Vorlon 1: This is also the first amp I ever owned, and I still have it. It is smooth and warm, very pleasant to listen to, sounds good on vocals, and really does nothing very wrong. For its price it produces very nice sound, but it won’t power hard to drive cans, give you a deep and wide soundstage or bring out small details in the recording as well as the other amps, and particularly the Go-Vibe which is only 20 dollars more. Still, I haven’t sold it off…..

Mrarroyo: Dr. Xin’s Supermicro IV: Ok, here I lost all objectivity. Why, because there is no way something this small can have this huge sound. I truly believe that Dr. Xin made a deal with the Devil to make it happen. This gem has clarity, punch, detail, sound stage etc. Until you try it you can’t believe it, I mean it was driving my Senn HD600 and my Beyer DT990 without any problems!!! I have one coming in black, if it sounds as good as Vorlon1’s blue Supermicro IV I will most likely sent it back??? because I will upgrade to the Supermacro IV since I want the crossfeed feature, as well as the bass boost and the OP Amp rolling capability.

Vorlon 1: It was very entertaining to watch mrarroyo’s face when he listened to this amp. Pleasure and surprise were the order of the day, and well deserved too. This is an amazing amp. I think it was just really beginning to “bloom” in the days leading to our little meet, and it has continued to develop. If anything, it is sounding more open, clear, and crisp than it did last Saturday. I was listening to it for several hours today and found it very tubelike in the best sense, smooth, warm lush mids, clear and natural highs, no harshness anywhere, and the largest and deepest soundstage of any portable amp I have ever heard, including all the more expensive ones we listened to. It’s a real adjustment to hear sounds like this coming from a device not much larger than a hand held pencil sharpener!!

mrarroyo: Dr. Xin’s Supermini IV: This amp sounds IMO the same as the Supermicro IV. However it costs $20 more and you still need to get a charger specific to the OP Amps you will be using. This could mean another $20 to $30 each, so at the end of the day you are to about $250. Although it sounds great I would get the Supermicro IV or the Supermacro IV. Yes the Supermacro IV is $350 but you do not have to deal with jumpers for which you have to open the case and have tweezers available to change the jumpers.

Vorlon 1: Today I sent the super-mini in for the latest updates. It sounds very much like the micro, but not as open or tubelike, and doesn’t have the sparkle the micro has recently shown. This may be because it is not burned in yet and hasn’t been used as much as the micro. When it comes back from Dr. Xin I will give it more time to open up. Right now the micro is superior in sound.

mrarroyo: LaRocco PRII: This is a tank, the finish and attention to detail are everywhere. Once you hold it you are in awe at the quality it exudes. It has a very long list of attributes to make it a home amp and many use it that way. However, for me it is too big and I can not see using it as a portable or a transportable. Others may disagree and that is fine. Furthermore even though it sounds great I do not see it having much value at $500, for that money I would rather get The Hornet “M” and a Supermicro IV or the Supermacro IV and the Go-Vibe 5.

Vorlon 1: The Larocco is a very powerful amp. I had to send it back to get the gain lowered to use it with IEM’s. Even with that, it will still drive K 701’s with the volume turned high. This is a very, very clean and detailed amplifier. You can hear background details effortlessly, and the highs sparkle. At first I thought the amp a bit cold sounding, but it has warmed up some as it has burned in. The SR-71 and Hornet are warmer, the Larocco probably more neutral and it has a somewhat larger soundstage than these two amps. If you like power and detail with super clean sound you will like this amp. I do not think it is fully burned in yet, this one has the black gate caps and may very well continue to evolve. I am also trying to get the mods with the 744 chips that have been mentioned earlier in this thread.

mrarroyo: LaRocco PPA: I did not spend to much time with this amp, however it is a very solid performer and it had no noise floor (totally black). I found it to be very clear, detailed, and a fun amp to listen to.

Vorlon 1: I just got this one in a trade and haven’t listened to it much yet, but I agree with mrarroyo’s discussion above. I think it reminded me a bit of a Gilmore Lite, but with more weight and impact. I have to listen to it more….

Mrarroyo: Musical Fidelity X-Can V2: I will be brief since it is my amp and I am biased. This amp is a bargain, you can get it for $160 to $190 on the used market,and these prices include S&H to your home. It is my opinion everyone should own one because this amp has so much…groove and soul …it makes all kinds of music come alive. FYI, since I have shipped my X-Can V2 to PinkFloyd to have it modded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will stop because the fanboy will come out!

Vorlon 1: I am not an X-Can fanboy, but I thought this amp sounded excellent. I liked it better than my Larocco PPA and thought it was warm, clean and detailed with a good soundstage. It was very musical sounding and I thought more “tubey”(good tubey, not bloated tubey) sounding than mrarroyo’s X-Can V3 which I had heard previously. This amp is a great bargain at the used price, in my opinion.

 mrarroyo: I was not going to comment on cans but since Vorlon1 did I will add my $0.02 on the Beyer DT990. This can is a major find, it has many of the elements of my RS1 and my HD600. It is extends a bit more on both bass and treble than the K701, in the begining it was to much, however it has mellowed and settle nicely. This can is a lot of fun to listen to and will get your feet tapping.

Vorlon 1: DT990s: Mrarroyo brought his new DT990s and I had the opportunity to hear them and I was very favorably impressed. I thought they sounded much more open and more natural than my 2004 DT 880s, for example. I like the open and spacious presentation of K 701s and found that these were very similar, while still having the Beyer house sound. Very enjoyable cans.

Mrarroyo: Since at the end of the day everyone will want a ranked list I will do so. Be aware that most if not all will not agree with these rankings and that is fine. We all have different ears, cans, listen to different music, and we all have different preconceptions and biases. The list is going to be done only for the 11 portables. Here it goes:

 RankAmp
 1Supermicro IV Xin SuperMicro IV/LaRocco PRII
 2SR-71/The Hornet "M" SR-71/Hornet M
 3Go-Vibe 5 DieInAFire Pint/Go-Vibe 5
 4LaRocco PRII Xin Supermini IV
 5Supermini IV  MisterX Pint
 6MisterX Pint Xenos OHA-REP
 7Practical Devices XM3 PA2V2 
 8DieInAFire Pint Practical Devices XM3
 9Xenos OHA-REP 
 10PA2V2 


Footnotes/Clarifications by mrarroyo:
Although I ranked the LaRocco PRII as a 4 on its sound quality it would not be an amp I would purchase if I wanted a portable amp. For home use yes and for that there are better options IMO.
Although the sound of the Supermicro IV and the Supermini IV is virtually identical I have ranked the Supermini IV lower due to its complexity in using the jumpers and that you need to purchase a separate charger.
Although ranked last the PA2V2 would be my choice if I had $65 or less and I was only planning on driving Grado 60, 80, or 125 or Etymotic ER6 or ER6i. The synergy with those cans is fantastic.


----------



## mrarroyo

Well here is the first revision to the posts Rob (Vorlon1) and I did back in October, 2006. As you can see by the pictures below we had a varied number of portable amps in this second round. Some are repeats which helps in a relative type of comparison, so that new amps can be ranked accordingly even though we did not have all the same amps as in the first round.

 The list of seventeen portable amps available today is:

 -LaRocco PRII w/ AD744 and Black Gates (blue)
 -LaRocco PRII MkII w/ AD744 and Black Gates (silver)
 -Meier’s Porta Corda MkIII
 -Meier’s Move (less than 10 hours of burn in)
 -C&C Box
 -Supermicro IV post 4/11 mods
 -Supermicro IV pre 4/11 mods
 -Supermacro IV-LE (faceplate has III): OPA2134 in L&R, with single HA5002 buffers. 3/4 is the LMH6643 (buffers bypassed)
 -Two (2) RSA’s SR-71
 -RSA’s Tomahawk
 -TTVJ Millet Portable Hybrid Amp
 -Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed w/ LT1210 and Black Gates
 -Little Dot Micro+
 -Practical Devices XM3 w/ an AD822 op-amp (instead of the OPA2134)
 -Two (2) versions of the Xin Reference Amp

 Some pictures of the seventeen (17) portable amps follow. You will also see three home amps, these were: Channel Island VHP-2 w/ its dedicated power supply VAC-1, an old Auri Digital Processor amp, and a Dared MP-5. Please remember to click on the thumbnails to view the full size picture.

























 There are three additional portable amps that both Rob (Vorlon1) and I have recently evaluated and written on. This thanks to Asr’s generosity in the “Loaner Program #6). You can read our comments at: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...28&postcount=4 and http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...69&postcount=5

 -Xenos X1HA-EPC amp
 -HeadAmp AE-2
 -Go-Vibe 6

 As you can see by the end of this comparison we will have reviewed a total of twenty seven (27) portable amps when we include the seven (7) portable amps which Rob (Vorlon1) and I reviewed in the October 2006 comparison but which were not reviewed today. Please be aware that we had enough carry over amps so that a relative comparison can be made amongst all of the twenty six (26) amps (two SR71s so only 26 different amps). The seven (7) amps compared in October 2006 but not today are:

 -Go-Vibe 5
 -Hornet “M”
 -DieInAFire Pint
 -Supermini IV (pre 4/11 mods)
 -MisterX Pint
 -Xenos OHA-REP
 -PA2V2

 There was a varied type of headphones available today. These were:

 - Grado RS-1
 - Ultrason PROline 2500
 - Equation RP21, modified by defoaming and with a pad swap for Beyer's Velour Pads
 - Equation RP21, defoamed
 - Yuin PK1
 - Alesandro MS-2
 - Sony MDR-F1
 - Senn HD600 w/ Revelation Audio Cryo 99.999% Silver
 - Senn HD650 w/ Stefan Audio Equinox
 - Audio-Technica ATH-EW9 Sovereign Wood
 - Older Beyer DT990
 - Ultimate Ears triple.fi 10 Pro
 - V-Moda Vibe

 As far as interconnects we had:

 - Three from Revelation Audo
 - One by Turbo
 - One by Oelbach
 - Two by ALO
 - Zu Pivot Mini

 Sources were:

 - Two (2) iModded 4th Gen 60 Gb iPods: One loaded with all apple lossless files, the other with apple lossless and high bitrate MP3s.
 - One 4th Gen 60 Gb iPod
 - iAudio D2
 - iRiver H120 - Rockboxed


----------



## mrarroyo

Ok, here I find myself trying to decide where to start. I mean, there are 27 different portable amps involved and so many thoughts, ideas, and notes come to mind. So, I took the easy way out and instead of starting with the portable amps I will discuss two big surprises, the Yuin PK1 and the Sony MDR-F1.













 I recall hearing how good this ear buds sound but had never taken the time to listen to them. Well, the accolades are well deserved, this little buds have a level of detail, clarity, bass impact, and overall enjoyment that I was not expecting. Someone looking for a nice no-compromise bud solution needs to search no further and should run and get a pair.

 I had not heard anything before about the MDR-F1, thanks to Ron (HiFlight) for bringing them to my attention (he is also the owner of the Yuin PK1). When you pick up the MDR-F1 you ask yourself: What, what happened to the weight? I guess they are indeed made of magnesium and aluminum alloy. For those who do not know of this can the driver is in an enclosure separate from the earpadas and they are an inch or more away from the ear and angled backwards. This combination makes for a very open and airy sound which. By the way the Sony MDR-F1 “leaks” more than a Grado. However they retain an incredible level of impact and detail, do not know how they have achieved it but … I forgot that I might have to order a pair for my own use soon. J

 It is getting late so I will not have the opportunity to finish tonight (7/30) the amp comparison as I had envisioned. However to give an idea I will at least list them as I ranked them. Note 1: This time I am only ranking based on sound, not including portability, or charging, etc. Note 2: You will notice I do not rank either of the two Beta Reference amps, this is due to both units being 2 months + old and way to many changes have been incorporated since.

 1.Xin Reference (late production and w/ a 12,000 pF cap)
 2. Supermicro IV w/ 4/11 mods 
 3. LaRocco PRII MkII
 3. MiniBox-E+
 3. SR71
 3. iBasso P2 w/ LM4562 and AD8599 op-amps
 4. iBasso D1 (modded w/ different op-amps)
 4.Supermicro IV w/o 4/11 mods
 5. Minibox-E tied w/ Mini3
 6.Supermacro LE (Hi-Flight's) and the TTVJ Millet Hybrid Portable
 7.Xenos X1HA-EPC tied with the Hornet “M” and Predator (amp section only)
 8.Meier’s Move and 2Move tied with the LaRocco PRII
 9.iBasso P2 tied with the Voyager
 10.Porta Coda MkIII tied w/ the Pico (amp section only)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 12.AE-2 tied with the Tomahawk and the iQube
 13.Supermini IV (pre 4/11 and late May mods)
 14.Portaphile V2^2
 15.Go-Vibe V6
 16.Practical Devices XM3 w/ AD822 tied w/ the UHA-3
 17.Go-Vibe V5 tied w/ DieInAFire Pint
 18.Mister X Pint
 19.C&C Box
 20.Little Dot Micro+
 21.Xenos OHA-REP
 22.PA2V2
 23. iBasso P1

 Any of the amps ranked 1 through 10 will provide the user with excellent service and make him/her very happy. Any of the amps ranked 1 through 5 are very close and IMO it is more a matter of what you like than any one being better than the other. The only amp that is difficult to rank is the TTVJ Millet. If you listen to four piece Jazz Combos this would be a top contender, perhaps as high as 3rd place. However with other music it falls short and thus a rank of 7th.

 Ok, here it goes:

 Supermicro IV w/ 4/11 mods: I continue to get goose bumps every time I listen to this jewel. It just brings an instant smile and gets my foot tapping. How can this $180 amp smaller than my thumb sound this good is beyond me. The bass is tight, punchy, with a wonderful lush/musical presentation. The highs are as good as any and the soundstage is wider than anything else I have heard. But none of the above makes it number one, its tube-like sound is what IMO makes it the best, the edge of the notes are rounded but yet retains the detail and clarity of a SS amp. I realize it is hard to put into words; you will just have to listen to one. I should mention that there is another set of mods (late May 2007) that have been reviewed by a select few that make this amp even better. When will it stop?

 LaRocco PRII MkII: I became enamored of the LaRocco PRII when I first listened to it in 10/2006 (That is the blue amp in this comparo and it ranked #6). Anyways the MkII does everything the previous version did but better. Gone is the hiss (specially w/ the attenuator engaged) and the MkII has a larger soundstage with a lush and warmer presentation than the original version. It also has the best bass of any portable amp, besides being tight and punchy, it goes very low and it makes my PROline 2500 and RS-1 sing.

 Supermicro IV w/o 4/11 mods: This would still be number 1 if it was not by the appearance of the LaRocco PRII MkII, and if Dr. Xin had not come out w/ the 4/11 mods. Basically it is just a step below the Supermicro IV w/ the 4/11 mods.

 SR-71: This is such a good amp; it does everything with very little flair and with no complaints. In many ways it is my standard against which I test all the amps. If the amp can sound good against the SR-71 then it deserves a second listen. It is in many ways very neutral as compared w/ the other offerings by Ray. If I could only have one transportable amp it would probably be this. Why? Because not only does it sound very good but it also is not to big, not to small, does not have any flaws and it goes well with any kind of music. It is not Number 1 because even though it does so many things well it does not get me involved with the music as much as the previous 3.

 Supermacro LE: This was a pleasant surprise, I had a pair and IMO it was not worth keeping and I sold it. Do not misunderstand me, is not that it did anything wrong it just did not do anything great. Before anyone jumps to ask, the answer is yes. I tried a boatload of op-amps and I could not get it to sound “good enough”. This amp has been looked after by Ron (HiFlight) who spent many hours looking for the best sound. Well it shows and this would make a great amp for those who would use it as an IEM, IMO it clearly surpasses the Tomahawk and it has the added bonus of a bass boost as well as impedance, gain switch and a charger. So as a portable amp for IEM with the occasional use of large cans this would make me very happy indeed. Note: The Supermacro LE uses a 15,000 uF capacitor that requires at least 400 hours of burn in. Although 600 hours would be better IMO.

 Xenos X1HA-EPC: This is a great amp! And a bargain to boot! I have had the opportunity to listen/audition it twice and both times I came away very impressed. It only had three very small issues that I picked on: light too bright, gain too high, and big/heavy. Well they have reduced the gain, which is a good indication of a company that wants to work with the customers. As far as sound well it is very close to the SR-71 with some of the paunchiness of The Hornet. I have said before that if Xenos could reduce the length of this amp by 1.5” it would sell like hot cakes.

 Hornet “M”: Nothing new with this little jewel, except that it continues to be an excellent all around amp. It is one of those amps (Like the Supermacro LE, Reference, and Tomahawk) that require a significant amount of burn in. IMO anything less than 400 is not enough, but for those who have the patience you will be rewarded with fantastic bass (second only to very few amps, the Portaphile V2^2 comes to mind) and very warm mids. Just like other offerings by Ray it is built like a tank and it offers the users a lot of benefits like a built in charger, gain switch and except for very few exceptions one of the smallest amps available.

 I will continue tomorrow.

 I am back! (7/31/07) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Move: This is a bit smaller than the pictures would indicate. Very nicely packaged and with plenty of goodies which most vendors no longer include. When I get a laptop this sucker will be ordered to pull double duty of both soundcard and headphone amp. The sound of this amp was impressive the down side is that it had less than 10 hour of burn in. *Definitely one that I will re-visit in the near future to see how it has evolved with 150 hours or so.* At first I felt that if a person already had the Porta Corda MkIII and did not need the built in dac in the Move then no need to order the Move. As the day progressed and I re-listened I was not sure so do to its lack of burn in I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt and ranked it higher than the Porta Corda MkIII and at the same level as the LaRocco PRII. I will have to validate this as stated above and it may move up as well as down.

 LaRocco PRII (blue): This is a very nice amp, warm, lush, detailed, and with great punch. This version is very close to the MkII. You will probably ask why is it ranked so much lower than the MkII? This is a very good question and the best answer I can give is that I failed to judge it only on sound and threw in size and cost. Not fair and I may have to re-adjust my rating in the next few days.

 TTVJ Millet: As stated above this is the amp which gives me the hardest time to rank/evaluate. If all I heard was small jazz combos this would be a very hard to beat amp and would be ranked as high as third. It has a very mellow and lush presentation, and possibly one of the best mids of any portable amp. My problem is that with other type of music it just does not compliment them. For example I would not use this amp with rock or metal, it just would not work. I would caution anyone who is thinking of getting this amp and use it for exercise or strenuous activity. The jarring will cause the tubes to vibrate and you will hear distortion, if used as a transportable or light walking no problems.

 Porta Corda MkIII: I have given this amp plenty of accolades; it just continues to astound me. At $160 delivered it is a bargain. Its only drawback is that is jus PLAIN UGLY. BTW the crossfeed implementation by Dr. Meier has to be the best I have ever heard.

 Tomahawk: At first I had ranked his amp as an 8th placed tied with the Porta Corda MkIII. However after further reflection I moved it to 9th place. I guess if I used IEM’s then it would be ranked higher, however I rarely use IEM’s and this amp lacks the in your face punch of The Hornet “M”, LaRocco PRII, or the Porta Corda MkIII. Thus I re-ranked as 9th tied with the AE-2. Although a repeat this amp needs well over 600 hours of burn in, IMO 800 is the optimum and then it gets very close to The Hornet “M”. I will say that its battery life as reported by many is beyond belief (400+ hours), exceptionally well built, and having a gain switch a very useable amp for IEM fanatics regardless of what volume they listen too.

 AE-2: As a past owner of an AE-1 I had high expectations for this follow up. In some areas it still is top notch: finish is outstanding, built like a tank, charger, mini and RCA input/bypass, and a gain switch. However, although it’s a much better sounding unit than its predecessor it just fails to grab me and say, “here I am”.

 Supermini IV (w/o the 4/11 nor the end of May mods): *Like the Move this amp will require a second look.* This because two sets of mods have been implemented on the amp by Dr. Xin which have been reported as taking this amp to a whole new level. Based on the differences in the Supermicro IV pre and post 4/11 I can believe it and look forward to its evaluation. The second reason is that I would like to try the op-amps that Ron (HiFlight) is using on his Supermacro LE. If those op-amps can make the Supermacro LE sound so good I wonder what it will do for the Supermini IV.

 Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed w/ LT1210 and Black Gates: I have owned this amp and it was a love-hate relationship. While I loved its presentation and bass impact I hated the fact it only lasted 2.5 hours w/ all the switches engaged (except the high gain). I might not be so bad if it had a battery charger but there is no provision for it, only plug to run the amp out of a wallwart. Yes I said that sound quality would be my only basis but IMO a portable amp that lasts 2.5 hours w/ alkaline battery as a source is totally unacceptable. I wish Cesar would find a way around this issue, if he did the amp would definitely break the top ten.

 Go-Vibe 6: I have been a fan of Norm’s amps and now that you can buy it for $60 it is a no brainer, especially for those looking for a first amp under $125. I certainly have not listened to anything that comes close in its price range. This amp has a very strong deep and well-controlled bass presentation, with good treble extension and a nice warm sound. When you add Norm’s customer service, a built in charger and a new smaller metal case I say run to get one.

Here is to long awaited input by Vorlon1:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I generally agree with mrarroyo’s overall impressions of these amps with some specific exceptions. 

 My first preference is for the TTVJ Millett Portable. At present it is my favorite portable amp. I find its overall presentation excellent: warm and smooth, yet detailed. Superb with all vocals, great soundstage, beautiful with classical and jazz, acoustic guitar, some forms of rock. I agree it is not great for metal and hard rock.

 The new Move is an excellent amp. I find it to have an excellent large soundstage, a slightly warmer presentation than the Porta Corda Mk III, but with no loss of detail. I thought it sounded a bit like the AE-2, but with better focus and clarity. It reminded me in overall sound quality of the SR-71 with a somewhat more forward presentation.

 For people with XM-3 or XM-4s I recommend trying the AD 822 op amp instead of the stock one. I was fooling around with the XM 3 the other day and put this chip in it and found that it improved the bass and mids significantly and gave a very nice soundstage with good detail.

 I’m not the fan of the Xenos amps the way mrarroyo is. I find their presentation pleasant, but a bit two dimensional and not as transparent as I prefer.

 I also don’t like the Larocco as much as mrarroyo. It is a superbly detailed amp with good punch and power, but I find it somewhat “cold” and analytical for my taste. Vocals are not forward enough for me. For whatever reason, it never gets my foot tapping like my favorite amps, and I just don’t find it having the “musicality” of the amps I have ranked above it. I can’t fault it on pure sound quality, and I wouldn’t argue with anyone who ranks it higher than I do, or enjoys it’s presentation more.

 The Sony Headphones HiFlight brought along are the most comfortable I have ever had on my head...feather-light, but without the overall detail and extension of the K 701s or HD 600s for example. 

 My rankings of the portable amps follow. The top five are so close in quality as to be strictly a matter of personal taste. Six through ten vary a bit in qualities like transparency and soundstage and so are in that second group. Eleven through thirteen are quite decent amps, but maybe one step below the others in various aspects of sound quality. It needs to be emphasized that all these amps produce quite good listening experiences. None of them could remotely be called “bad” they are merely lesser degrees of “good” based on my particular way of hearing things and my preferences.

 1. TTVJ Millett Portable
 2. SR-71
 3. Xin Super-micro post 4-11
 4. Corda Move
 5. Larocco PR-II
 6. Hornet M
 7. Porta Corda Mk III
 8. Super Mini IV
 9. Portaphile V2^2
 10. Xenos X1 HA-EPC
 11. Tomahawk
 12. Go-Vibe 6
 13. Practical Devices XM-3 with AD 822 mod

Here is HiFlight's input, including three additional pictures: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There were MANY amps to play with, as well as a number of sources and a variety of headphone, some IEM, but the majority were circumaural types.

 While I largely agree with Miguel's and Rob's rankings, I did feel that there were a few differences of opinion between my rankings and those of the other reviewers. Most of the differences were not due to the sound quality of the amp, but rather how it sounded with my particular headphones. I mainly used my Sony F-1's for amp comparisions, often then trying an A-B between the Sony and the PK-1. 

 I will say at the outset that listening to different phones demonstrated more differences between phones than between amps when using the same phone. 

 I do think that one of the best sounding phones I listened to were Vorlon1's Senn. HD600 with the Revelation cable. It sounded just stunning! 

 I quickly listened to most of the amps, but did not A-B compare all of them. I mainly focused on the 2 Reference Betas, the Meier Move, the LaRocco MKII, both Micros, pre and post 4/11, and Ray Samuel's amps. I also spent a good bit of time listening to Rob's beautiful Dared MP-5 tube amp. While not truly portable in any sense of the word, I like the sound enough to convince Rob to part with it! It does have, especially with my F-1's, a beautiful, clean and transparent sound. Plus, it is a joy just to look at it. 

 Overall, I would have to place the LaRocco MK11 at the top of my list of the portable amps. Probably the 2nd place winner would be the latest post 4/11 Xin Micro. One has to listen to this little jewel to really appreciate the sound quality and 3-dimensonal soundstage of this tiny amp. 

 I would place the SR-71 and Move as a tie for 3rd place. They both sound very good, but different. The SR-71 is more laid-back and a bit more distant with a narrower soundstage. The Move has a more surrounding soundstage, with deeper bass. Although I had only accumulated about 10 hours of burn-in on the Move, there does not appear to be very much change so far as more time accumulates on the amp. Choosing between the 2 will be strictly based on personal listening preferences. The DAC that is built into the Move is an added bonus and really does sound great. 

 Quality of construction is first-rate on both amps. (on all of Ray Samuels' other amps as well) For those of you familar with the rather spartan looks of the Porta Corda amps, the Move will much impress you! Very solid precision construction thruout, with the most complete and professional packaging I have seen with any amp. 

 4th place would go to the Xin LE. With the current opamp configuration of OPA2134/HA5002 in L&R and LMH6643 in 3/4 (buffer bypassed) I thought it sounded better than either Reference. Having the 4 switches to easily customize the sound would make the difference for me, unless the final version of the Reference is ultimately improved. At this time, the Micro still sounded better to me. 

 The remainder of the amps, while interesting to listen to, did not motivate me enough to go out and place an order. The were all decent sounding, some more than others. There were no obvious dogs in the lot. 

 As is the case with any review, there are few absolutes. What sounds great to one person will not necessarily sound the same to another. Much of the differences can be both psychological as well as physical, as each person has ear anatomy that is about as individualistic as are fingerprints. As many studies have demonstrated, the shape of one's outer ear can affect our perception of sound. 

 Most of the current crop of quality headphones and amps are so close together in SQ that subjective considerations such as comfort, features, size and weight often become the deciding factor when attempting to make choices between them. 

 In summary, it was a really fun day and I hope that we can do it again, with even more participants and more toys!!!

















 September 15, 2007 update!

 A large portion of the afternoon was spent listening to Ron's iBasso D1 in which he had replaced all the op-amps. For example he replaced the DAC AD8616 with an AD8656. In the amp section he has replaced the NE5532 (2) buffers with two AD8397, furthermore he replaced the AD823 with a variety of op-amps. Two of his favorites are a LT 6241HV and the 2111.

 Those who are fans of Dr. Xin amps would recognize the LT 6241HV as the chip Dr. Xin refers as the "Tube Chip". It sounded very nice in the D1 almost evoking the sound of the Supermicro IV and the Reference. However I chose the 2111 since IMO its soundstage is slightly larger and it has great detail and clarity.

 So during the 1st round various op-amps were swapped on Ron's D1. At this stage Rob was assessing them and it seems to me that Rob and Ron were pretty much in agreement and the LT 6241HV was one of their favorites if not the top. I then proceeded to compare the two (stock versus modded) and although the sound change is not night and day it is there. I find I can detect the instruments easier, there seems to be more air between the notes and the soundstage is wider (specially with the 2111 chip).

 I then compared the stock D1 with a Supermicro IV w/ post 4/11 mods, LaRocco PRII MkII, and SR71. IMO the stock D1 is very close to the SR71, this did not come to me as a surprise since I had reached the same on a previous comparison I had conducted at home. When I used Ron's modded D1 it was a tad better than the SR71. The soundstage was wider and more open, there was a level of lushness that the SR71 lacks. As far as detail and clarity as well as tone I would say they are pretty even. Thus I will probably will rank the SR71 and the D1 as a tie.

 Then came the production Reference that belongs to Ron. This unit has a 22,000 uF main cap, I did not ask Ron how many hours of burn in (sorry). Here, well lets say there is a new "Numero 1" on my amp's rankings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the same time I will say that it is a subtle difference, the Reference has more impact and tad wider soundstage. IMO it is a bit clearer, however it seems to have lost a bit of the tube sound the Supermicro IV has. I think I would be happier on a day to day basis with the Reference but the Supemicro IV will definitely remain a very special amp with a tube sound not equaled.

 Finally the turn for the iBasso P1. I almost did not listen to it, since I felt it would be crushed specially since I listened to it after the Reference and the D1. Well I was surprised, it was significantly better than I expected. No it wont be on my top 10 list but it doesn't do anything bad either. I asked Rob how he thought the P1 compared with the PA2V2 which funnily enough it was the first amp we both had. The answer is mix in that we both would rather listen to the PA2V2 but I would concede that the highs are better on the P1.

 September 19, 2007 Update
 With 108+ hours of burn in on the LM4562 (2) in place of the NE5532 (2) and the OPA211 in place of the AD823 I have to say that the D1 sound is in the same league as the LaRocco PRII MkII. So I have changed its ranking.

Well today (October 6, 2007) I was able to complete the 3-way amp review I started a couple of weeks ago. However instead of a three-amp review it became a 4-way amp review, since Vorlon1 added a Mini3 by Rockhoper.

 Of course these being new amps to both of us we decided to use old favorites as points of reference. To that effect we chose: LaRocco PRII MkII, SR71, Portaphile V2^2 Maxxed w/ LT1210 and Black Gates, Tomahawk, Porta Corda MkIII, Supermicro III, and TTVJ Millet Portable Amp.

 Below you will find thumbnails which when clicked will take you to a full size picture of the amps described. The first thumbnail is of the 4 new amps and the second thumbnail of the old amps used as a point of reference.









 This time in a slight departure I will start listing a couple of items, which I believe, need to be improved upon. The Rockhoper Mini3 needs to have a bit more attention to detail in its overall construction. Yes it is very inexpensive at $125 including a wall wart but a little more attention to detail should be given to its construction, it just looks amateurish. The UHA-3 (like Meier’s amps) has the headphone out to the right of the input. The majority of portable amps have the headphone out to the left of the input, which is IMO more convenient especially if you are using a headphone that terminates in a large plug.

 There were two great surprises amongst the 4 amps we tested today. Both of these units (in our opinion) sounded better than the SR71, which is a major accomplishment. For those who have not followed the SR71 it is thought by most that it is a very detailed sounding amp with very good soundstage and clarity. What makes the finding more interesting is that both of the amps cost a third of what the SR71 does.

 These were the MiniBox-E and the Mini3. Those who prefer a wide soundstage (I do) would prefer the MiniBox-E; the ones who prefer a warmer presentation in which the treble produces a good round, natural piano tone would prefer the Mini-3 (Vorlon1 does). However we both agree that w/o having them side-by-side you would not notice the difference. We both agree that these two amps are fantastic values and we could be happy if it was the only amp available. The MiniBox-E has sockets on its buffers and amps, so I will be rolling op-amps in the near future. I am optimistic that the MiniBox-E sound can be further improved upon and it should make for a great portable unit.

 Both the MiniBox-E and the Mini3 have a bass w/ great punch and impact. IMO the bass boost switch in the MiniBox-E should be toned down a bit. When it is engaged the bass becomes a bit uncontrolled and boomy. Perhaps if the boost is cut in half it would make for a more useful feature, as it is I do not see myself using it. The P to S switch is well implemented and it is a nice feature to have for those w/ sensitive iems.

 These two amps extend well into the treble with a very nice midrange. Those who like a more of in your face midrange would prefer the Mini3. The MiniBox-E has as good a midrange but it is presented in a wider soundstage so is not as much in your face. As you can imagine Vorlon1 has a slight preference for the Mini3’s presentation while I have an affinity for the MiniBox-E. These differences are not night and day but not subtle either. With them side-by-side it is an easy thing to distinguish.

 The Go-Vibe 7 uses the same chip (AD8397) as the Mini3 but they sound quite different. I personally believe the V7 sounds better than the V5 or V6 while retaining the Go-Vibe sound. I preferred the sound of the MiniBox-E and the Mini3 with the Go-Vibe 7 slightly behind. It has a nice punchy presentation with a good extension into the higher frequencies. The sound is more in your face like the Mini3 and it has a similar size soundstage.

 The UHA-3 has a lot of good features but I believe it needs a bit more development. No it does not do anything bad and some things it does well. However it fails to get my foot tapping as the other 3 amps did. Basically there is a slight veil to its presentation, where it does not let the music come through. Furthermore I hear a bit of graininess, neither my wife nor Vorlon1 heard it. If you use a laptop as your source and you need an amp/dac the UHA-3 is an attractive alternative, however if you can put up w/ the increase in size and price I would select the iBasso D1. I certainly hope Leckerton Audio can squeeze a bit more performance out of the UHA-3 because it could become a much sought after amp/dac.

 This is now part of the 27 portable amp review, which will be re-titled to 31 portable, amp review and these 4 have been ranked there as well. As a recap:

 1.MiniBox-2
 2.Mini3
 3.Go-Vibe 7
 4.UHA-3

 As a reminder, 1 and 2 are pretty much interchangeable. Yes they are that close that their individual presentation differences can have some choose one over the other.

*1/12/2008 Update:*

 It has been a while since I have posted/updated this thread. In that time I have had tested three additional portable amps. First a high gain and a low gain versions of the Graham Slee Voyager, then an iBasso P2. Only a few have had an opportunity to listen to the Voyager Amp, however a large number of users have been able to listen to the iBasso P2.

 Graham Slee Voyager:

 Once you get past the use of a plastic case by Graham and start listening to the unit you start appreciating the very nice and cohesive sound this unit makes. IMO the bass is amongst the best, but the area where this amp shines is in TONE! It just gets it right.

 This unit can be powered three ways: 1) the included wall wart, 2) a 9 volt battery (one is included), and 3) via an usb cable (it does not have a dac). FYI a single 9 volt alkaline battery provides about 50 hours of use.

 A future of this amp is a contour switch. This might be of interest to bass heads or to those who use a bass shy iem or portable can. I am not one of those who would use it but many who have tried it love this feature.

 The Voyager is an amp which requires massive ammounts of burn in, for those who do not believe in burn in then enjoy your amp w/o it. I would say that a minimum of 400 hours is needed, if you have the patience let it go for 800 hours. I will add that based on information at the Graham Slee website the case of this amp will be changed to a machined unit in the future. Personally I prefer a plastic case for an every day amp, this because it would be lighter and I would not be as concerned about scratching it.

 Finally I would like to address the exchange rate. This amp sells for $180 British Pounds, with the dollar so low it becomes $350 which puts it in a very elite company. The exchange rate did influence me a bit on the ranking (sorry).

 iBasso P2:

 I will not describe thisamp because many have posted pictures and descriptions. If you are looking for a fantastic value w/ a great sound you are in luck. Not only do we have the P2 but also the Mini^3 and the MiniBox-E (I am expecting a MiniBox-E+ shortly and I will add it to this test). Any of these 3 amps will bring an smile to your face and will not destroy your wallet. As you can see the rankings above I truly like this unit.

 UPDATE - March 8, 2008

 It has been a long time since I have posted on this thread. Many amps have come and gone since and of those I will be writing a bit on:

 - MiniBox-E+
 - iQube
 - Predator
 - Pico

 If you compare this latest set of 4 amps there is no doubt tha the MiniBox-E+ is the ugly duckling. The iQube exudes elegance, the Pico pizzaz, and the Predator tank like quality. The iQube is the largest but still small as compared to other units like the LaRocco, or the Xenos. The reamining three are small w/ the Pico having an edge.

 In this review I am only comparing the amp section of this 4 new amps and not their dacs. I should mention that Boomana was present and she brought the Stax Portable Electrostatic amp/can unit. Lots of clarity and detail. However the bass was a bit light. This stax will not be included in the comparison since it is for dyanmic amps.

 To me and I believe also for Vorlon1 and Boomana the MiniBox-E+ was a very eye opening experience that such an small and relatively inexpensive unit (about $180) could sound so good. Well it does and IMO just about every one should own one. The Minibox-E+ allows op-amp rolling, a task that I hope to start soon.

 The iQube was somewhat of a dispointment, I had high hopes for this amp and based on looks, quality of construction, features and size it should have been in the top 5. However its sound which was not bad was lackluster and at a $500 premium I felt the other three offer way bette value. A few have reviewed this unit and have given it a very high mark, since I respect their opinion I expected the iQube to be ranked as high by myself as well.

 The impact and bass of the Predator is in lines w/ Ray's house sound. If you do not need a dac go and get a Hornet unless you listen to Jazz/Classical in which case I would suggest the SR71. BTW, the SR71 is one of my favorite portable amps of all time. I will start looking for one soon.

 The Pico is a beautiful amp, just begs to e placed on a display. However it is not my cup of tea. I should mention that I did try it as a dac and as such it is amazing. If you are looking for an amp/dac combo in an ultra miniature size give the Pico a lot of consideration. I have not listened to the new iBasso D2 but even if it sounds better it is a larger unit.

 A couple of pictures from today. Remember to click on the thumbnail to view the picture.









 That is for it now. The adventure continues. Note: Any of the top 15 amps on the list will make anyone happy.

*UPDATE as of 3/22/2008*

 Thanks to Skylab I received on 3/18/08 a Meier 2Move. The unit is much nicer than pictures do it credit, as well as smaller than it appears on Dr. Meier’s website: Meier-Audio

 The unit that belongs to Skylab is IMO nicer in that it only has the logo on the amp. In the website referenced above you will see that besides the logo it has written Corda on one side and 2Move on the other. I much prefer the cleaner looks of Skylab’s amp, I wonder if he removed the additional writing or if Dr. Meier shipped Skylab’s unit that way. I should also mention tha the 2Move is built like a tank and that I like the type of mechanism used on the battery door, very easy to use and elegant if I may say so.

 Here are some pictures I took; I chose to include a 4th Gen iPod in a Contour case and a MiniBox-E+ as a size comparison. Please click on the thumbnail to view the full size picture. The 4th picture is one I took when I got together with vorlon1 on Saturday, March 22, of 2008.

















 I will be comparing this unit as a follow up of the review I did on a Move with only 10 hours of burn in. At the time I wrote that I should revisit the Move to see if additional burn in would improve it. I should mention that the 2Move amp section is identical to the one in the original Move; this latest version has an upgraded USB DAC.

 Note: I will only be testing the 2Move as an amp not as an amp/dac. This to be in line w/ the multi amp review I started with vorlon1. Furthermore I will be using my “normal” transportable gear that consists of:

 ·iModded 4th Gen 60 Gb iPod Photo loaded with Apple Lossless Files
 ·Revelation Audio 99.999% Cryo Silver IC
 ·Ultrasone PROline 2500
 ·Ultrasone HFI-780

 The music I have chosen is six CD’s I know well and it is all Jazz, my preferred type of music.

 ·Barney Kessel – Autumn Leaves
 ·Bill Evans – Waltz for Debbie
 ·Diana Krall – The Look of Love
 ·Jane Monheit – Surrender 
 ·Cassandra Wilson – Belly of the Sun
 ·Chet Baker – In Paris 

 I was able to recruit vorlon1 to assist in the comparison and as part of the test I will be comparing the 2Move with various portable amps. Such as:

 ·MiniBox-E+
 ·SR71
 ·Pico

 The day we met we had some additional amps as can be seen on the 4th picture of this write-up. However some of those amps were either modified with a different op-amps (iBasso P2) or were not fully burnt in (iBasso D2). Therefore those two amps were not included in the comparison.

 As you can see this was not done in one sitting, but I did complete the testing by March 22, 2008, which will allow me to ship the amp back to Skylab early on Tuesday, March 25, 2008.

 So, what is the verdict? First I cannot honestly say how this new 2Move compares with the original Move. Way to much time has come and gone, even if only a week had lapse it would still be a difficult proposition. Auditory memory is IMO not very good. However at the end of the day I will rate both units the same based on the 2Move since they both have the same amplifier section.

 The 2Move sounds a bit congested, and its soundstage is not as wide as that in the SR71 or the stock MiniBox-E+. I find its highs not as natural as either of the other two offerings.

 Following the 2Move I swapped op-amps on the iBasso P2 and it now has an LM4562 and an AD8599. The amp now has much better dynamics, detail, and overall presentation.

 I then swapped op-amps in the MiniBox-E+, now it has two AD797. Now it is a bit warmer/darker and with more rounder treble, very extended and with no harshness.

 More to follow!


----------



## mrarroyo

Reserved 3


----------



## tbonner1

I like this format.

 We have our own Ebert and Roeper


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tbonner1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I like this format.

 We have our own Ebert and Roeper_

 

x2, great format. sure wish that Move had more than 10 hours on it before reviewing it though.


----------



## oicdn

Mine has been burning in nonstop since the day I got it two weeks ago (7/19)...the sound hasn't changed much, if at all. 

 How has it been burning in? It's been plugged into a computer or laptop since the second I got it, playing random through itunes. Even during transport to and from work, it's been on a loop through an ipod.

 I've been switching between Boomanas Hornet M and my Move throughout my entire vacation, being either walking around the mall, or being on the plane or traveling through airports. I like the Hornets size and lighter weight, but the sounds from the Move just "moves me". It's slight edge in the bass and impact department just keep drawing me more and more towards it. But for whatever reason, there's still a reason why I like the hornet...I dunno what it is, I'm thinking it's probably because it's beautiful and more expensive, lol.

 So, that's about 300 hours of burn in on my Move...that's probably more than anybody elses on Head-Fi, lol.


----------



## dissembled

Can you tell us the impedance ratings of the Beyers? Thanks.


----------



## dw6928

Miguel, my only quibble is the Xenos over the Move. I own both and find the Move the superior amp, not by much but it gives a more resounding sound presentation than the Xenos. I think you will agree once the 100 hour burn in is accomplished. Other than that, your work is thorough, unbiased and delightful to read. Well done. Wayne.


----------



## dw6928

duplicate post.


----------



## Dual

Great read. I just got my Move now you're making me want the Xin supermicro!

 Im glad you like the Sony F1. I love mine.


----------



## wakeride74

What are the opamps in the supermicro IV w/ 4/11?


----------



## jamato8

IF the Reference hits the pavement. . . . 

 The Micro doesn't used opamps.


----------



## boomana

Thanks again, guys. I remember following your first impressions thread and happily blame you for my purchase of the PRII, though I have the AD8620 version. I also have a RSA SR-71, but I put them as equals with just slighly different sound presentations. When I get my Diablo (yes, I'm still hopeful), I would love to get together with you guys and simply have a Larocco comparison. Plus, I'd be interested in hearing if the AD744 is as good as you guys, and even Phil, has said.


----------



## PFKMan23

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Micro doesn't used opamps._

 

When did Xin stop using op amps in the Micro? (I assume you're talking about the Xin Super Micro)


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IF the Reference hits the pavement. . . . 

 The Micro doesn't used opamps._

 

I thought the Micro used opamps but the Mini did not


----------



## PFKMan23

From what i can tell, all of Xin's amps use op amps.


----------



## mrarroyo

wakeride74 and PFKMan26, the Supermini uses op-amps (dual) for both the L/R channel and the 3/4 channel. The Supermicro and the new Reference use FET's.

 dw6928, please realize that my ranking on the Move is based on 10 hours of burn in. I wrote that due to this it would require a second look into, just like the Supermini IV will get re-evaluated when Vorlon1 receives it with the post 4/11 and late May mods. Thanks for the kind words.

 Boomana you got a deal on a meet! I also want to listen to a LaRocco PRII with the AD8620 which I have never listened.

 Jamato8, what does "IF the Reference hits the pavement. . . . " mean?

 Vorlon1 and HiFlight, please send me your comments so they can be added and we continue with the "Siskel and Ebert & the Movies" motive.


----------



## dw6928

sounds like all of us interested parties should plan a portable amp mini meet
 and put some faces with the names and the amps.


----------



## Kahuna

Wow, great job! I appreciate your efforts!!


----------



## EFN

MrArroyo & Vorlon1 - What can I say. SUPERB work guys! and SUPERB write-ups!

 It is not easy to judge 2 different amps, let alone 26 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The thing that I liked the most is that I have that feeling your impressions are not clouded by any discontentment with any particular amp maker - purely SQ - that's the way it should be.

 When I visit US in Feb 2008, I will do my best to set up a meet with you guys...just for the kick


----------



## subfocus

Thanks for all the hard work guys. Would be interested to know the current op-amp set up in the Supermacro LE thats impressing you so much....


----------



## HiFlight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *subfocus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for all the hard work guys. Would be interested to know the current op-amp set up in the Supermacro LE thats impressing you so much...._

 

My LE was running the OPA2134 in L&R, with single HA5002 buffers. 3/4 is the LMH6643 (buffers bypassed)

 The 2134/5002 is a very synergistic combination. This current configuration is the only one that has thus far completely satisfied me. Very difficult to differentiate from the 2 References that we had available for comparison when all switch settings are set to default. BTW, my LE has probably accumulated around 600 hours of use to date. It does sound fuller than my Micro, but mine is one of the originals, with no update tweaks at all. The latest Micro does have a larger, airier soundfield. 

 I think this LE combo sounds every bit as good as my SM-IV did. Unfortunately, it is still at Dr Xin's for repair, so I cannot compare them side-by-side at this time.


----------



## KurtW

Quote:


 The Micro doesn't used opamps. 
 

 Quote:


 The Supermicro and the new Reference use FET's. 
 

The first statement is wrong. The Supermicro DOES use op amps, although they differ from some others because they are CMOS op amps.

 The second statement may be a little misleading but is not incorrect. FETs are generally thought of as discrete devices or an input stage of an op amp, but technically CMOS transistors are a type of FET. If you look at the data sheet for the OP amp used in the SuperMicroIV, it talks about being CMOS but doesn't mention FET. If you look at the OPA2134 datasheet it highlights it's FET input but the rest of the op amp is bipolar. Xin likes to mention FETs because for some people they bring to mind a tube-like sound. This concept probably started with speaker amps that had MOSFET output transistors instead of the bipolar transistors that most amps use.


----------



## KurtW

This was a huge undertaking and the authors are to be congratulated for a well written, detailed review. 

 I would like to highlight one important statement: 
 "Any of the amps ranked 1 through 10 will provide the user with excellent service and make him/her very happy. Any of the amps ranked 1 through 5 are very close and IMO it is more a matter of what you like than any one being better than the other."

 I have a love/hate relationship with ratings and rankings. I find that they provide greater clarity, and I have used them myself...I used them in my amp review posted back in 2001. However people should use them in context of the full review and for additional information rather than any absolute rating or ranking. As always, individual preferences will dictate deviations to any other person's list. 

 I have directly compared the SuperMicro IV (post 4/07) with the Hornet M. While I probably preferred the SMIV most of the time based on SQ, I couldn't state that one is better than the other because that would depend on what sound you preferred, not to mentioned what headphones and source was used. I would not flatly state that one amp is a better sounding amp than the other. Of course there are other considerations as well; the SMIV is cheaper and smaller, whereas the Hornet is better built, has a 3 position level switch, great channel matching and better measurements, etc. 

 Since I have a large wine collection I follow many wine reviewer's reviews. The most influential person in the industry is Robert Parker, who has his palate insured by Lloyd's of London for $1M, and many wineries world wide wait until seeing his pre-release reviews before they set their prices. I value his reviews, but do not blindly follow them but instead carefully read the details of his reviews. For example, he likes ripe wines and I don't, so I carefully look for his comments regarding this. This is the same scrutiny that I would apply to any audio equipment review.


----------



## jamato8

Ok, but the Reference is FET.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, but the Reference is FET._

 






 Sorry mate I couldn't help myself


----------



## KurtW

The reference uses op amps, the same ones used by the SuperMicro no doubt given the preference of the SuperMicro over his other amps.

 Xin states: "All the chips are full FET type," but the "chips" that he refers to are CMOS op amps. 

 If you look at Xin's website he shows the circuit board. There are only four chips on it, these are the op amps. One is no doubt for the power supply.


----------



## PFKMan23

Unless Xin reworked the whole circuit, it still looks like he uses op amps.


----------



## Filburt

I'd say they're CMOS. The marking looks like BKA to me (AD8615) but someone mentioned to me that Xin quoted 250mA, which would be AD8531. Either way, it'd be a CMOS op-amp. You can see from the circuit that op-amps are being used. It's L/R/IG/OG which is essentially the same basic topology as something like the PINT or Mini^3.

 I think Xin has also referred to the chips as rail-to-rail, which rather strongly suggests CMOS as well. I can't think of a high output current, r-r fet input op-amp that runs at 6V and comes in SOT-23 at the moment (and has that type of branding on it), but maybe someone else can.


----------



## jamato8

Great review, thank you for sharing all of your hard work but then what would you do with it if you didn't share it? :^)

 Xin has told me he is using fets and that is all I can go by. I actually don't care if he is using a special conductive mud as the Reference I am listening to translates my listening time into a true musical experience but this thread is about many amps and I think it is great that the quality of portable amplification has gone to such a high degree.


----------



## KurtW

Yes it's the results that count, one shouldn't get hung up on the circuit details nor the marketing hype...its the results that count.

 On the other hand, engineering types are always curious. Filburt, I think you're on to something there. According to Xin:
 "The chips are tiny, but they can output up to 250mA at full 6V (headroom unnecessary)! The style of this amp is totally different than all my other amps except the same small metal case used by SuperMacro-IV."

 So that would rule out the chip he used in the SuperMicro-IV, and the slower AD8531 certainly is a possibility. I'm not sure why he would have given up on the SuperMicro chip, since people liked it and he would have gained something by eliminating the voltage multiplier chip.


----------



## Filburt

Well, I guess it's different from the Supermicro and Mini since he doesn't use the MAX1796 DC-DC converter, and it's different from the Supermacro since it uses SOT-23 chips, isn't user configurable, and lacks the switch functionality.

 250mA and 'no headroom necessary' sounds like AD8531 to me. CMOS op-amps are the only type I'm aware of that can pull that sort of swing with that sort of output, or anywhere near that. If you look at low voltage R-R op-amps, the overwhelming majority of them are CMOS. The AD823 is one of the few low voltage r-r chips that is FET input, but it doesn't output much current and even 10mA Iout will pull it 250mV from its rails in more favourable conditions (2k ohm, near zero capacitance) than something like a headphone. I can't think of anything that isn't CMOS that comes in SOT-23 (or SC70...though these look like SOT) that meets these performance figures, or anywhere near it. IMO, the AD8615 is a better choice, though; it has lower distortion in this sort of application. Furthermore, it's already popular. Oh well, either will work OK, I guess; neither would be my first choice but I do think the switch is a bit curious.


----------



## SONGsanmanwah

Love reading you guy's first one so this thread only make me happier, subscribed!


----------



## BIG POPPA

OK guy's
 If you had to rate these amps on sound alone and not on all the bells and whistles each amp may or may not have how would it be????


----------



## subfocus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HiFlight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My LE was running the OPA2134 in L&R, with single HA5002 buffers. 3/4 is the LMH6643 (buffers bypassed)

 The 2134/5002 is a very synergistic combination. This current configuration is the only one that has thus far completely satisfied me. Very difficult to differentiate from the 2 References that we had available for comparison when all switch settings are set to default. BTW, my LE has probably accumulated around 600 hours of use to date. It does sound fuller than my Micro, but mine is one of the originals, with no update tweaks at all. The latest Micro does have a larger, airier soundfield. 

 I think this LE combo sounds every bit as good as my SM-IV did. Unfortunately, it is still at Dr Xin's for repair, so I cannot compare them side-by-side at this time._

 

 Thanks for the info Ron . I've been aware of your considerable experience with op-amp rolling the SM's from your posts on Dr Xin's website , so to hear your (and others) high praise for this latest configuration is very interesting indeed.


----------



## lerio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

_

 

Gorgeous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can i ask you why no Bithead here and on first review of Amp ?


----------



## Skylab

GREAT review, guys. I have been eclipsed! You guys are now kings of the portable amp review hill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very nice work. We have some small differences of opinion, which is excellent - gives the head-fi community different data-points.


----------



## jamato8

I have worked with tubes much of the time in the audio world and that is what I love to play with so my expderience with chips is much less. I remember now talking with Xin and what he said about the chip. FET does distinguish the chip/chips he is using and the quality. Beyond that I would let Xin say on his site whatever he wants.


----------



## HiFlight

I am preparing my take on the amps and will send it to Miguel for adding to the review. In short, I pretty well concur with the way the amps are rated. I would put the Dared tube amp right up there, probably in the top 3 or 4, but it can hardly be considered a portable amp. 

 I should have gotten my feedback to Miguel earlier, but had some other drains on my free time in the last few days. 

 It is significant to note that there were no BAD amps in the lot. Even the cheapies are an improvement over the meager output from most players.

 For someone on a limited budget, any one of them will put a smile on your face. 

 I did note that how I would rank the amps depends almost entirely on which headphone that I am using. Some sounded better with one particular phone, while others sounded better with a different phone. I will try to qualify that in my review.


----------



## DBrim

I can't wait to see what the Move is like after burn-in! (or maybe I can, to give my wallet a bit more time to recover)


----------



## Filburt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have worked with tubes much of the time in the audio world and that is what I love to play with so my expderience with chips is much less. I remember now talking with Xin and what he said about the chip. FET does distinguish the chip/chips he is using and the quality. Beyond that I would let Xin say on his site whatever he wants._

 

FET-Input R-R op-amps aren't particularly common, and I've never seen one that outputs 250mA. Xin's description points heavily towards CMOS op-amps and, honestly, the chips in that picture look like AD8615s (which do 150mA, but they're what are used in the Supermicro so maybe it's what he had lying around).


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GREAT review, guys. I have been eclipsed! You guys are now kings of the portable amp review hill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very nice work. We have some small differences of opinion, which is excellent - gives the head-fi community different data-points._

 

Skylab,,,not eclipsed but supplemented...yours stands along side this review in helping people understand how these amps sound.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Filburt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_FET-Input R-R op-amps aren't particularly common, and I've never seen one that outputs 250mA. Xin's description points heavily towards CMOS op-amps and, honestly, the chips in that picture look like AD8615s (which do 150mA, but they're what are used in the Supermicro so maybe it's what he had lying around)._

 

Xin has found some that put out more current than most people know about with lower input requirements. These chips are not what people are used to. I have seen the volumes of information Xin has studied about these and all the volumes of information on the different chips and it is no wonder he is taking so long. The volume of information he has pulled together is huge.


----------



## Filburt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xin has found some that put out more current than most people know about with lower input requirements. These chips are not what people are used to. I have seen the volumes of information Xin has studied about these and all the volumes of information on the different chips and it is no wonder he is taking so long. The volume of information he has pulled together is huge._

 

Okay. Can you link me to some of this information? I'm a little surprised that I haven't heard of a 250mA output, R-R FET Input op-amp that runs at 6V and comes in SOT-23, considering I keep track of these things pretty closely, but maybe you can point me towards it. Otherwise, I think my inference of a CMOS op-amp really is pretty reasonable, given the information available.


----------



## dw6928

Having just received a loan (thank you) of a SR71, I tend to agree with Vorlon1 that the Move and the SR71 are quite similar but I also agree that the Move is a bit more forward in its presentation. On the other hand, I agree with Mrarroyo that the SR71 is almost flawless in everything it does. It does so much so well with so little effort it seems like I have had it around for years, not like a new amp that takes time to acclimate oneself to its sound signature. I plan to spend a great deal of time with the SR71 while it is visiting, so I will add some comment over the next several days.
 One thought about the Amp Review: why the absence of any Headroom portables? The Microamp was my first portable amp and I have always had great respect for the Headroom line. I am aware they are being upgraded and perhaps the authors are awaiting the new product line. 
 If not, there should be some mention of Bitheads or Micro amps somewhere in the mix.


----------



## mrarroyo

A couple of things to mention. First, I am caring less and less about the internals and more about the sound. In the case of Dr. Xin's portable amps I get interested in trying combinations to get the best sound but once I find it then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EFN, it would be great to meet with you. Let us know so we can plan a mini meet. I am sure many in the South Florida Team would love to meet with you as well.

 Skylab, there is no eclipsing only work that compliments one another. If you look at your rankings, Vorlon1, and mine there are some similarities and some differences. At the end of the day the differences are more important because it makes the end user think about the possibilities.

 Vorlon1, I added your comments in blue to the third post. Rob, did you listen to the LE? if yes you forgot to rank it. HiFlight, still waiting for yours to add say in red.

 Note: rank may not be the best word to be used. However is the only one that came to me when I was writing. BTW, I wanted to add that if there is one bargain I would have to say is the $60 Go-Vibe 6!


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GREAT review, guys. I have been eclipsed! You guys are now kings of the portable amp review hill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Very nice work. We have some small differences of opinion, which is excellent - gives the head-fi community different data-points._

 

In no way do I believe our review "eclipsed" yours. It may have come close to equaling it, but I think slwiser has the right idea, they are supplementary and complementary, hopefully adding some information to our on-line community that people will enjoy.


----------



## KurtW

Filburt, I believe that Xin's definition of "FET" includes CMOS, which is technically valid. Therefore I do think that you are on the right track.


----------



## jamato8

The last time I saw Xin he discussed the chips he was using and his search. With all the many, many hours and long hard work of comparing sound and topologies that work I would leave it up to him to post what chips he is using and the information relating to them.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In no way do I believe our review "eclipsed" yours. It may have come close to equaling it, but I think slwiser has the right idea, they are supplementary and complementary, hopefully adding some information to our on-line community that people will enjoy._

 

Thanks Vorlon and Mrarroyo. I agree, it's great to give head-fiers several of these mega-reviews, as it provides several datapoints for people. Again, you guys did a fine job.

 Also, I have gotten a TON of PM's asking amp questions after my review went up - now you guys get your turn


----------



## noremedy

Wow, thanks.. this will provide lots of help and reading.


----------



## Pappucho

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Filburt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay. Can you link me to some of this information? I'm a little surprised that I haven't heard of a 250mA output, R-R FET Input op-amp that runs at 6V and comes in SOT-23, considering I keep track of these things pretty closely, but maybe you can point me towards it. Otherwise, I think my inference of a CMOS op-amp really is pretty reasonable, given the information available._

 


 Xin states here that the Supermicro IV uses CMOS opamps. See the 5th post down.

 Great work guys!


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pappucho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Xin states here that the Supermicro IV uses CMOS opamps. See the 5th post down.

 Great work guys!_

 

I think that this is also the direction that Justin took with his new design of amp/dac that he previewed for us at the Washington DC area meet; i.e., using FETs.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slwiser* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think that this is also the direction that Justin took with his new design of amp/dac that he previewed for us at the Washington DC area meet; i.e., using FETs._

 

Are there any images of the amp/dac? Is it on the market?


----------



## Killercrush

Some pics can be found in this thread : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250611


----------



## slwiser

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are there any images of the amp/dac? Is it on the market?_

 

This is the meet impressions/pictures thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250611

 It was naked; i.e., without a case. There are various pictures within the thread. It is supposed to be on the market this fall. 299$ without DAC and $499 with DAC. It will come with either a single or double battery pack, signal will give you 35 hours duration. It only comes with USB interface, no coaxial or optical. He said he is still studying exactly which opamp to use. He said it was something like a OP351 or something like that.

 It was really impressive sounding. I would love to have it in hand for a while to compare it with my Xin Reference. Hirsch brought over his K1000 in an attempt to test it and he was very surprised in how it drove them. His impression is also in the thread. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...1&postcount=11


----------



## jamato8

Thank you. At 499 it comes at a pretty heavy price but I know there is a lot of work there. His cases are always beautiful, at least from what I have seen. I still don't understand why everyone keeps going with usb only except it is the chip they are using that can not be used with an optical or coax in. That in unfortunate at the prices asked. There are plenty of people that still would use optical out on a good portable cd player, at least I do with the Monica II and on well recorded music I get reference sound going portable.


----------



## EFN

So MrArroyo? when can we see XIN Reference entering the list?


----------



## edwardsean

I was also wondering about the Headroom Microamp. Is there a reason that it was omitted on both this amp review and Skylabs? Both lists were so comprehensive and the amp is so highly regarded I wasn't sure why it didn't appear. It would be great to know where it ranks in the opinion of such knowledgeable ears, especially as the new portable is coming out.


----------



## vorlon1

It was omitted because neither mrarroyo, myself, nor highflight owns one. I used to have one but sold it. I could tell you from memory what it sounded like, but it is from memory and not direct comparison. I had a 2005 model with the 2006 desktop module. Good sounding amp, slightly warm, decent soundstage. I didn't find it as clear or detailed as the RSA SR-71. From memory I'd say it sounds a bit like a Portaphile or a Go-vibe 6. It is fairly large and the battery life is only about 8 hours or so. The crossfeed works well, if you enjoy crossfeed. Hope that is of some help.


----------



## tek

Wow. Another enjoyable and insightful read which makes my decision on a new portable amp harder but better informed. Thanks guys


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was also wondering about the Headroom Microamp. Is there a reason that it was omitted on both this amp review and Skylabs? Both lists were so comprehensive and the amp is so highly regarded I wasn't sure why it didn't appear. It would be great to know where it ranks in the opinion of such knowledgeable ears, especially as the new portable is coming out._

 

Tyll from Headroom has offered to send me a new Microamp to review once they are out. No sense in reviewing the old version since it is discontinued.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Musique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Spectacular review. This destroys Skylab by all means. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

How so? I appreciate the style of the review here but Skylab goes more in depth on the aspects. The reviews complement each other, not compete against each other.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How so? I appreciate the style of the review here but Skylab goes more in depth on the aspects. The reviews complement each other, not compete against each other._

 

Don't worry itsborken, that post is just the latest re-incarnation of Andrea, who seems to have taken some issue with me, through absolutely nothing I ever did to him. Just ignore it.

 Of course as you state, these reviews are not competitive in any way, they are complimentary.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Musique* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Spectacular review. This destroys Skylab by all means. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is uncalled for
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 VERY immature. 

 Regardless of who the reviewer is, we welcomed more impressions. I do hope you'll get an earful from Jude..


----------



## Computerstud

^^^^Just ignore his comment. 

 Excellent review, great complement to Sky's. Good job boys, I appreciate your time and efforts.

 Sound like beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. 

 Note to Sky, I already told you how I feel in your thread, no need to repeat my appreciation again.


----------



## tracyrick

The only amp I own is the Portaphile Maxxed you guys reviewed. The charging issue is annoying, but with 8.3 hours off an iPower 500mah battery I do just fine. Changing the batttery is quick and easy and the amp sounds great to me. Cesar also provides outstanding service.

 My question: The other amp I'm interested in is the Xin Micro with it's very small size, simplicity, and consistently high ranking. Can someone highlight the differences you hear between the Portaphile and the Micro post 4/11? What does the Micro do better soundwise?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only amp I own is the Portaphile Maxxed you guys reviewed. The charging issue is annoying, but with 8.3 hours off an iPower 500mah battery I do just fine. Changing the batttery is quick and easy and the amp sounds great to me. Cesar also provides outstanding service.

 My question: The other amp I'm interested in is the Xin Micro with it's very small size, simplicity, and consistently high ranking. Can someone highlight the differences you hear between the Portaphile and the Micro post 4/11? What does the Micro do better soundwise?_

 

If you search across this forum, you will find out that despite the liliput size, SuperMicro-IV (specially after the 04/11 upgrade) offers big sound normally found in Desktop/Home amp. And the killer part is SuperMicro-IV has a unique blend of Solid State sound with Tubey touch - not many amp can claim to do that successfully, not in a portable amp of course. If you like your sound to be analytical and lush at the same time, SuperMicro-IV is the answer


----------



## EFN

Now that Xin Reference enters the final stage. Hope either MrArroyo or Vorlon1 can splice in a word or two on how this amp fares against the rest


----------



## sinsiang

Yes I hope that the reference turns out what I hope it will be.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So MrArroyo? when can we see XIN Reference entering the list? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I received an email from Dr. Xin in which he is sending Vorlon1 and I the latest boards. I should get them next week and since the final version uses the 22,000 uF caps I want to give the amp at least 600 to 800 hours of burn in. Which means about 4 weeks from when I get the boards (about early september). Sorry.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was also wondering about the Headroom Microamp. Is there a reason that it was omitted on both this amp review and Skylabs? Both lists were so comprehensive and the amp is so highly regarded I wasn't sure why it didn't appear. It would be great to know where it ranks in the opinion of such knowledgeable ears, especially as the new portable is coming out._

 

I have compared the HeadRoom Micro Amp w/ the 2005 and the 2006 Desktop module. IMO it was not as good as the Hornet or Supermacro III Ver. 6. Many like this amp but it was not to my liking. If I was to rank it based on memory I would rank it 12 tied with the Go-Vibe 6 or so.

 I will say that the customer service by Tyll and his staff is top notch. I will also add that the Micro Dac is a very nice piece of equipment and I look forward to getting a second one before the new one comes out.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is uncalled for
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 VERY immature. 

 Regardless of who the reviewer is, we welcomed more impressions. I do hope you'll get an earful from Jude.._

 

I agree, we do things differently not better.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tracyrick* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...

 My question: The other amp I'm interested in is the Xin Micro with it's very small size, simplicity, and consistently high ranking. Can someone highlight the differences you hear between the Portaphile and the Micro post 4/11? What does the Micro do better soundwise?_

 

I will say there are three main differences. These are:

 1) Soundstage: the Supermicro IV is huge both in width as in depth
 2) Smoothness of presentation: More like a tube amp than a SS amp.
 3) A little less bass but very tight and impactfull w/ no flab or boom.

 Hope this helps. BTW, I agree Cesar has very good customer service and his amps are very well built.


----------



## subfocus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I received an email from Dr. Xin in which he is sending Vorlon1 and I the latest boards. I should get them next week and since the final version uses the 22,000 uF caps I want to give the amp at least 600 to 800 hours of burn in. Which means about 4 weeks from when I get the boards (about early september). Sorry._

 

 You mentioned in another thread you are reviewing the new Graham Slee _green _non-portable amp at the end of August mrarroyo. It would be great if you could perhaps review it alongside the Reference, as it might then give everyone a better idea of how the Reference directly compares with the very latest s.s. amps designed for home use only . Based on the trustworthy reviews from the Beta testers so far, I think I'm not alone in considering the possibility of using the Reference as my sole home based amp _and _portable. A comparative review of this kind may help many head-fiers like myself to decide if the Reference is the cost effective _one amp_ solution that we truly hope its going to be.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *subfocus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You mentioned in another thread you are reviewing the new Graham Slee green non-portable amp at the end of August mrarroyo. It would be great if you could perhaps review it alongside the Reference, as it might then give everyone a better idea of how the Reference directly compares with the very latest s.s. amps designed for home use only . Based on the trustworthy reviews from the Beta testers so far, I think I'm not alone in considering the possibility of using the Reference as my sole home based amp and portable. A comparative review of this kind may help many head-fiers like myself to decide if the Reference is the cost effective one amp solution that we truly hope its going to be._

 

I am hoping to receive a Green Solo and a Voyager from Graham Slee. The first is a home amp and the second is a portable amp. As a norm portable amps do not fare well when compared against full blown home amps. This due to various factors from larger PSU, to better/larger components throughout.

 Now the Voyager will be more in line as a comparison.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am hoping to receive a Green Solo and a Voyager from Graham Slee. The first is a home amp and the second is a portable amp. As a norm portable amps do not fare well when compared against full blown home amps. This due to various factors from larger PSU, to better/larger components throughout.

 Now the Voyager will be more in line as a comparison._

 

Any chance of getting you to review RSA B-52 buddy?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance of getting you to review RSA B-52 buddy?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

If you are ofering to buy one and loan it to me, YES!


----------



## Henry Flower

Is this review still a work in progress? The LDM+ is ranked but doesn't seem to be included in any of the discussion, and I see there's still a post 'reserved' on the first page.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henry Flower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this review still a work in progress? The LDM+ is ranked but doesn't seem to be included in any of the discussion, and I see there's still a post 'reserved' on the first page._

 

Yes it is a work in progress. For example I am waiting to include the Xin Reference, Lisa III, Graham Slee Voyager, etc.


----------



## spunkmeyer

Wow, I can hardly wait for these new amps to be added. Thanks from all of us out here for all your good work.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any chance of getting you to review RSA B-52 buddy?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you are ofering to buy one and loan it to me, YES! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 


 What? Has Ray released the Coin Slot B-52?


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it is a work in progress. For example I am waiting to include the Xin Reference, Lisa III, Graham Slee Voyager, etc._

 

Oh No! Have you given up on the ISA Diablo?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Henry Flower* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is this review still a work in progress? The LDM+ is ranked but doesn't seem to be included in any of the discussion, and I see there's still a post 'reserved' on the first page._

 

I owned and listened to LDM+ for quite some time ago. From what I can recall, despite being a clear sounding amp - it has that morbid trait of "reducing" bass and cold signature overall. This aint making it a favorite at all.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What? Has Ray released the Coin Slot B-52?_

 

emmm Jamato did mentioned about Ray releasing the portable version of B-52, complete with wheels for the main and PSU unit....me guess those will have Coin Slot as well


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh No! Have you given up on the ISA Diablo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually I have had one for a month doing beta testing. I was not supposed to say anything about it.





















































 Not! just kidding. Would like to listen to one though.


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually I have had one for a month doing beta testing. I was not supposed to say anything about it.





















































 Not! just kidding. Would like to listen to one though._

 

So how's the Diablo


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *EFN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_emmm Jamato did mentioned about Ray releasing the portable version of B-52, complete with wheels for the main and PSU unit....me guess those will have Coin Slot as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_

 

I was thinking more of the silver dollar-sized, quarter-sized, and dime-sized B52 models, for carrying in one's very own "coin slot". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't ask where the interconnects go … I don't wanna know … though perhaps tiny strands of Valhalla cable might serve (un-terminated, of course) … with tiny pouches of ERS paper for shielding (Thank You Patrick) and whatever.


----------



## jamato8

Sure, it's right around the corner. Some of that trickle down space technology Ray know about but is holding out on. I think next up will be implanted headphones with cables coming out your. . . . nose.


----------



## gonzalo

great great great mega review, as skylab reviews, thank you


----------



## mrarroyo

It has been a while ... but today I was able to meet with Vorlon1 (Rob) and HiFlight (Ron) to do some more amp evaluations. Sadly no pictures were taken. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I totally forgot to take my camera. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Today's meet was mostly to go over three new portable amps. The three new amps to be tested were:
 - iBasso D1 (stock) and iBasso D1 w/ various op-amps
 - iBasso P1
 - Production Reference by Dr. Xin

 So please go to the third post of this thread to read on the update as well as to see the rankings.


----------



## dw6928

Miguel, I must be missing something. Post # 3 mentions the D1? Where?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dw6928* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Miguel, I must be missing something. Post # 3 mentions the D1? Where?_

 

Go there now, I was still typing. Sorry.


----------



## Romanee

Miguel --

 I had a loaner Supermacro IV LE that I gave weeks of additional "burn in" -- and no matter how much time I spent with it and how much I wanted to like it, I found it's SQ to be far below the Hornet, Portaphile Maxxed and Tomahawk. 

 This particular unit had AD8656 opamps, though you noted that you had personally tried a variety of opamps with no great success.

 What did HiFlight (Ron) do to it that you finally placed it near the top, on a par with the SR-71?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Romanee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Miguel --

 I had a loaner Supermacro IV LE that I gave weeks of additional "burn in" -- and no matter how much time I spent with it and how much I wanted to like it, I found it's SQ to be far below the Hornet, Portaphile Maxxed and Tomahawk. 

 This particular unit had AD8656 opamps, though you noted that you had personally tried a variety of opamps with no great success.

 What did HiFlight (Ron) do to it that you finally placed it near the top, on a par with the SR-71?_

 


 My original Supermacro LE was not as good sounding as the SR71. Believe you me I tried a bunch of different op-amps and buffers. Ron's LE used OPA2134/HA5002 in L&R and LMH6643 in 3/4 (buffer bypassed) and they struck a note with me.

 BTW, the disappointment for me today was that no Move was available for retest and the 2nd one was that by the time the meet ended I realized I had not listened to the Portaphile V2^2 that I wanted to re-test. Well there is always next time.


----------



## Romanee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My original Supermacro LE was not as good sounding as the SR71. Believe you me I tried a bunch of different op-amps and buffers. Ron's LE used OPA2134/HA5002 in L&R and LMH6643 in 3/4 (buffer bypassed) and they struck a note with me.

 BTW, the disappointment for me today was that no Move was available for retest and the 2nd one was that by the time the meet ended I realized I had not listened to the Portaphile V2^2 that I wanted to re-test. Well there is always next time._

 

You can always borrow my Portaphile to find out if it sounds the same (to you) as yours -- which would also determine if there's any unit-to-unit variation. I'd be interested in your in-depth re-visit from a SQ-only perspective.

 Of course I hope I can get to hear the latest Xin winners and a Move. Maybe some will actually appear at the Fall NYC meet??? (Not likely, based on history, but not impossible.)


----------



## tnmike1

Mrarroyo: you can borrow my Portaphile too; not as many hours as Romanee perhaps, but at least 500+ Also totally maxxed like his


----------



## mrarroyo

[size=x-large]STOP THE PRESSES![/size]

 I just changed the NE5532 buffers (2) with the LM4562 chip in the amp section. This combined with earlier today replacing the AD823 with a 2111 has brought the amp section to a whole new height. In my earliest comparison when I had used my 4th Gen iModded iPod to drive the D1 and SR71 I stated that they were pretty much the same.

 Well that is not longer the case. The D1 amp with the 2111 driving a pair of LM4562 is in the LaRocco PRII MkII territory. Man I wished we had done this test earlier today when I was with Vorlon1 and HiFlight.

 Not only is the bass so tight and powerful w/o any bloat but the soundstage has opened even further with an almost holographic sound. 3D for your ears!

 HiFlight/Jamato8 please try this combination and report back. Believe me, I want to be wrong. Otherwise a $252 amp plus $40 in chips will sound better than a $565 amp and the required $42 PSU.

 HiFlight, the amps puts out plenty of power. Yes I know what the spec sheet says but I only had to go up the equivalent of 1/2 hour to compensate over the stock NE5532. The change is mind boggling, the buffers have brought more of a change than the other two chips previously swapped.


----------



## mrarroyo

Guys thanks for the offers to borrow the Portaphile. Vorlon1 had one today w/ many hours of burn in. I messed up and failed to listen to it.

 I can tell you that HiFlight did listen to it and he was very impressed. His comment was along the line "...I could lilsten to this unit all they long, w/o any fatigue ..."


----------



## jamato8

There are so many options with the D1. I have two Xin References. As good as the 22,000uf unit is my 12,000uf with two 220uf nonpolar Black Gates, yes I modded it, with Eneloop batteries, is the best I have heard. I think it gets back to the tube sound, of a very fine tube amp.


----------



## edwardsean

Jamato, 

 How much of a difference do the eneloop batteries make, and where can they be bought?


----------



## edwardsean

Thank you all for your labor of love. I'm a bit confused though about where the Reference stands now. Jamato8 has written elsewhere that it's like a home version of the Micro. However, it seems that Mrarroyo's estimation is that it is better but only subtly. I know that everyone has different preferences, but I had high hopes that the Reference would indeed be good enough to replace a home amp. If it only slightly betters the Micro, I'm not sure that is the case. Would any of you care to comment?


----------



## EFN

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank you all for your labor of love. I'm a bit confused though about where the Reference stands now. Jamato8 has written elsewhere that it's like a home version of the Micro. However, it seems that Mrarroyo's estimation is that it is better but only subtly. I know that everyone has different preferences, but I had high hopes that the Reference would indeed be good enough to replace a home amp. If it only slightly betters the Micro, I'm not sure that is the case. Would any of you are to comment?_

 

But have you ever listened to a SuperMicro-IV 04/11 first? to better SuperMicro-IV even subtly is a stellar accomplishment. Because IMHO SuperMicro-IV 04/11 has no problem outclassing or at least on par with most amps within the $200-500 price range.


----------



## edwardsean

I understand your appreciation for the Supermicro, as it has become legendary by now. I've only had a Supermini IV which I've been gladly "sharing" with Dr. Xin for many months now. It's just that I have Apogee and Headroom DACs going into a Meier Move and I wanted to upgrade the amp section. I've been eyeing a Woo 6 but portability is important to me. When Jamato wrote that he accidently plugged into the Reference but thought he was listening to the Woo, I thought that provided the answer for me. I am not convinced that the Supermicro outclasses the Move, but I thought the Reference might. I just don't want to spend time and money and make a lateral or subtle move.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...I am not convinced that the Supermicro outclasses the Move, but I thought the Reference might. I just don't want to spend time and money and make a lateral or subtle move._

 


 The Supermicro IV w/ the 4/11 mods outclasses everything except a Reference. I just did a test yesterday and it re-confirmed my previous findings. You must also realize that the Supermicro IV w/ the 4/11 mods was already the best (at least IMO). For an amp to come and surpass it is IMO a major accomplishment. Specially when you get 6 times the battery life, both 1/4" and 1/8" inputs/outputs, and a metal enclosure to protect the unit.


----------



## Quaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *edwardsean* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jamato, 

 How much of a difference do the eneloop batteries make, and where can they be bought?_

 

eneloops (sanyo) are beautiful batteries, i just got 8 x AAA for my supermacro, they are lower noise floor and have a far longer life overall, they are the best choice for a portable amp, even though the AAAs rate @ 800mAH, dont worry, they are such quality that they last as long or if not longer than 1000mAH ratings that i have used. they simply dont need to overstate there case with overhyped ratings.

 as to the audible effect, i wouldnt like to say, apart from the claim they are less noisy within this type of product = amp.

 regarding ordering, heck i had to get them off ebay, all sealed, even got a free mini tester and a hard flip case with mine


----------



## jamato8

The eneloop have a lower internal resistance, which is good for current supply and improves sound quality, imo. The eneloop are true to their rating (I have a charger that can give you actual readout of the stored amperes in the battery after charge). Even in appearance the eneloop are nicer, not that it makes any difference in sound. I have these in AA and AAA and have been very happy with the results.


----------



## jlingo

Yes TTVJ Hybrid Millett is very hard to evaluate indeed.
 In general, it's exceptional for classical, jazz, slow music which involve emotional and smoothness.

 But with CANS such as ER-4P/S, UE11, UE9, The Millett is simply superb. There is some sort of synergy going on and They do Rock and Metal Rock very well as well using the above cans.

 With ES2 and Millett, I only lasted 15min, it sounded too boring for my taste. Hornet and ES2 seems to mate very well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With Millett, the CANs you use are very important, if it's got a great synergy, it simply sounds superb. It's definitely better than my SM LE by far. But with unmatched CAN, it could sound pretty uninvolving, less dynamic, and boring! And yes it could sound horrible with Rock and Dance for certain CAN. It's unfortunate really.

 UE10 and Millett, they don't do rock or Hip Hop very well.

 I guess you have to test the amp with your CAN yourself whether they suit your need.


----------



## jlingo

-Double- Please delete this.


----------



## mrarroyo

The LM4562 (2) with the OPA2111 have been installeed in my D1 since Saturday and have been burned in for about 108 hours since. It is my opinion that it is the equivalent of the LaRocco PRII MkII. So I will be changing the ranking of the D1 on the 3rd post of this thread.

 The total burn in on this 2nd unit is 220 hours. Note: The first had to be returned due to technical difficulties, iBasso was top notch and even picked up the cost to return the 1st D1.


----------



## DDW

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Supermicro IV w/ the 4/11 mods outclasses everything except a Reference. I just did a test yesterday and it re-confirmed my previous findings. You must also realize that the Supermicro IV w/ the 4/11 mods was already the best (at least IMO). For an amp to come and surpass it is IMO a major accomplishment. Specially when you get 6 times the battery life, both 1/4" and 1/8" inputs/outputs, and a metal enclosure to protect the unit._

 


 Are you saying the Micro has 6 times battery life or the Reference?

 It looks like you are referring to the Reference since you continue to describe it with metal enclosure.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DDW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you saying the Micro has 6 times battery life or the Reference?

 It looks like you are referring to the Reference since you continue to describe it with metal enclosure._

 

I am talking about the Reference which has a 200+ hour play time on 4 AAA batteries vs. 35 hours on the Supermicro IV w/ one AAA battery.


----------



## mrarroyo

See 3rd post for the addition of 4 new amps.


----------



## jamato8

Have you ever done any opamp rolling with the P1? I have changed the opamps in my P1 and would rank it much, much higher than where you have it. I would have to open it up to determine what ones I ended up with but it jumps in sound quality by a huge amount.


----------



## fraseyboy

Cool reviews! Seriously, that format is cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wondering... Which amp synergized best with your HD600?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool reviews! Seriously, that format is cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wondering... Which amp synergized best with your HD600?_

 

The closest I have is an HD580 w/ the HD600 grills and the HD650 cable. I will do some listening but I would think that clean amps with good extension would be favored. Things like SR71, MiniBox-E, Mini3, Supermicro IV, Reference, and the like.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you ever done any opamp rolling with the P1? I have changed the opamps in my P1 and would rank it much, much higher than where you have it. I would have to open it up to determine what ones I ended up with but it jumps in sound quality by a huge amount._

 

No I have not, the unit I tried belongs to Vorlon1. If you give me some pointers I will talk to Vorlon1 to do some op-amp rolling. Perhaps we could do it at the same time we roll op-amps on the MiniBox-E.


----------



## jamato8

I will have to open mine as I don't remember the opamps I used. I have it packed away right now but as soon as I get to it I will let you know what I find. :^)

 It is too bad they didn't use better or more synergistic opamps as the P1 can really shine.


----------



## Computerstud

Miguel,
 Good Work. Your review seems very neutral. Thanks for your time and your warm enthusiasm to questions.


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The closest I have is an HD580 w/ the HD600 grills and the HD650 cable. I will do some listening but I would think that clean amps with good extension would be favored. Things like SR71, MiniBox-E, Mini3, Supermicro IV, Reference, and the like._

 

Thats fine. That will be what I am getting, HD580 with HD650 cable and hopefully I'll be able to find HD600 grills somewhere.

 I'm not sure whether I will need a new amp for it or if my GoVibe V6 will suit it...

 I was looking at the Supermicro, but I heard Xin takes years to ship their amps, so I think that one will be out.


----------



## antonyfirst

Miguel, thanks for the great reviews. How do you think the ER4S wold sound with the Minibox-E? I'm very interested in it to couple with Etys/Altec.
 Also, how powerful is the Bass switch compared to that of the Xin Supermini? How many dB is it?


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool reviews! Seriously, that format is cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just wondering... Which amp synergized best with your HD600?_

 

The Mini^3 sounds excellent with the HD 600s. Very full sound. The Mini^3 is a very neutral, very detailed, little amp with great performance across the board. You get plenty of air around the instruments, very good width and depth to the soundstage and plenty of bass impact, but everything is in balance. The highs are also excellent, very clear and extended without any etched or cold quality. Another few instruments that sound really realistic and natural on this amp are violins, pianos and cellos. The high violin notes sound full and extended in the treble without any shrillness or metallic sound, the piano notes do not have hard edges like some amps will give you, but have a really full rounded tone like an actual piano, and the amp allows you to hear the decay of the note really well because it is so good at picking up low level detail and the ambiance of the recording. Another thing that is noticeable is that when you hear cellos you really get the buzz of them, you can hear the string friction and sort of "grind" that a real cello string sounds like, there is no blurring to the sound or artificial smoothness, you get a realistic sense that some "friction" is occurring between the bow and the strings. Even the more expensive portable amps that I own don't seem to capture this quite as clearly. 

 I am using the Rockhopper made M^3 with dual 8397s, the so-called, high performance version with a gain of 2. Even this low gain is sufficient to push the HD 600s to loud enough levels, but if you are not going to use sensitive IEMs (which I mostly use) then there is no reason not to get a higher gain version for use with the HD 600 or other similar cans.

 I bought this amp because I was curious to see what it would be like and the price was attractive. I had no idea it would be as good as it is. So much so that it has become my everyday portable amp replacing the Millet Portable (at least for now) because it sounds equally good and is easier to carry. In some ways it actually sounds slightly better, particularly with rock music, but much to my surprise is excellent across the board, whether with classical, vocals, jazz, folkie accoustic guitar, or whatever you throw at it.

 So, back to the initial question, this amp will sound quite good with your HD 600s.


----------



## shomie911

I just got a pair of Beyer DT880's ('06 250 ohm) and I was wondering which amp would work best with them.

 I had my eye on the Mini^3, Minibox-E, or the new Headsix.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shomie911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a pair of Beyer DT880's ('06 250 ohm) and I was wondering which amp would work best with them.

 I had my eye on the Mini^3, Minibox-E, or the new Headsix._

 

For now I do not know of anyone that has reviewed the Headsix, however I have listened to the Move. Lets assume that the Headsix sounds as good as the Move (which according to a post by another Head-Fier it should not be as good as per communication he received from Dr. Meier).

 I would rand the three you mentioned as:

 1. MiniBox-E tied with Mini^3
 2. Headsix

 To untie the MiniBox-e and the Mini^3 it would depend if you value soundstage over rounder presentation of the notes while retaining a very good extension and tonal quality. I prefer the Minibox-E and Vorlon1 the Mini^3. Be advised that either of us would be happy w/ either of the two amps, they are that good.


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shomie911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a pair of Beyer DT880's ('06 250 ohm) and I was wondering which amp would work best with them.

 I had my eye on the Mini^3, Minibox-E, or the new Headsix._

 

I just hooked up my 2003 DT 880s to the Mini^3 and they sound very , very good. See my remarks above related to the HD 600s as they apply to the DT880s also. I didn't listen to the Minibox with DT880s yesterday, but did with mrarroyos Prolines and my RP 21s and the Minibox is an impressive unit. Lots of power, very smooth, large soundstage. I suspect it would sound excellent with DT880s.


----------



## shomie911

I'm leaning towards the Minibox-E for that extra bit of soundstage and the smaller size. 

 One question though, how long is the battery life on the Minibox-E? I know the Mini^3 lasts for around 10 hours.


----------



## antonyfirst

Head-direct says the Minibox-E lasts for 30 hours.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shomie911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm leaning towards the Minibox-E for that extra bit of soundstage and the smaller size. 

 One question though, how long is the battery life on the Minibox-E? I know the Mini^3 lasts for around 10 hours._

 

Over 24 hours. However this number will vary depending on the output level of your source, volume you play at, and the headphone impedence.


----------



## only500made

how about the dt770s? *out of all that was reviewed* I would need 2 choices at least. 

 the sound I want: large soundstage, NOT WARM (very important), bright (not overly). Ive got an existing amp that improved the mids of the dt770s drastically but im hungry for more soundstaging.


----------



## shomie911

24 hours is great. Even if it dips below 20, I highly doubt I'll be listening to it for more then that a day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus it comes with an IC and it's rechargeable. It seems to be quite the deal.

 I think I'm going to be placing an order on the Minibox-E very soon.


----------



## itsborken

Thanks for ranking and reviewing the mini3. It's a nice sounding amp, that is for sure. Have you seen the amp with Ti's group buy faceplates? The quality moves up a notch if built with them.


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for ranking and reviewing the mini3. It's a nice sounding amp, that is for sure. Have you seen the amp with Ti's group buy faceplates? The quality moves up a notch if built with them._

 

Haven't seen it, but I'd like to.


----------



## mrarroyo

Have not seen the alternate faceplate either. Any one has a picture?


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have not seen the alternate faceplate either. Any one has a picture?_

 

Pictures of Ti's faceplates (3 of the 4 are Ti's design)


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pictures of Ti's faceplates (3 of the 4 are Ti's design)_

 

Sweet faceplates!


----------



## speedbird151

i think custom face plates add about $50 to the price of a mini3. they sure make it look really trick. that gets you to $175 for a mini3. i hope we get a comparison of the mini3 and the headsix soon, should be very interesting.


----------



## shomie911

Well I just ordered the Minibox-E, wish me luck.

 I'll post my impressions of it and my DT880's whenever it gets here.


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *vorlon1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Mini^3 sounds excellent with the HD 600s. _

 

Thank's for your review of that amp with the HD 600's! Very helpful.

 If I don't like it with my GoVibe V6, I'll get it. Where is it sold? I could only find the place to buy the circuit and stuff for building it yourself. Can it be bought pre-assembled?


----------



## vorlon1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fraseyboy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank's for your review of that amp with the HD 600's! Very helpful.

 If I don't like it with my GoVibe V6, I'll get it. Where is it sold? I could only find the place to buy the circuit and stuff for building it yourself. Can it be bought pre-assembled?_

 

I got mine from Rockhopper Audio at this site. If this link doesn't take you to the portable audio page, just click on that button on the page.http://www.rockhopperaudio.com/


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *speedbird151* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i think custom face plates add about $50 to the price of a mini3. they sure make it look really trick. that gets you to $175 for a mini3. i hope we get a comparison of the mini3 and the headsix soon, should be very interesting._

 

I used non-boutique parts and order 10 resistors at a shot vs each. Even so I had the following shipped (some priority mail/insured):

 AMB 32.08 rail splitter, pot, opamps, jacks, etc.
 Digikey 40.46 resistors, caps, case
 AMB 26.08 mini3 faceplates
 Jameco 14.56 power supply 15v nonregulated
 Ace Hwr .46 nylon nut/screw.

 I had the rechargable battery; factoring in $10 for it would bring it around $123.64.

 The only problem is the faceplate group buy is over and unless Ti has some stashed away it may be hard to get some. Perhaps if enough people requested there could be another group buy.

 As an alternative, somebody on the mini3 thread did a pretty good job creating their own (Dremel tool--kind of like a router lettering kit?? my conjecture). So it's been done, the question is how much time and effort one would put in to making a really nice looking case. It does have me interested for things like an upcoming b22 build.


----------



## Deathwish238

Awesome comparison!

 Between the Minibox-E and Mini^3, which has tighter bass? Which has deeper bass? Which has more clarity? Lastly, which is more powerful?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deathwish238* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome comparison!

 Between the Minibox-E and Mini^3, which has tighter bass? Which has deeper bass? Which has more clarity? Lastly, which is more powerful?_

 

From memory I will say they are equivalent. However, when I get it back I will compare them and let you know. Thanks.


----------



## Deathwish238

Cool, thanks.

 Any thoughts on the iBasso D1? I'ld be using it as a DAC/amp w/ my laptop primarily

 So many options gets quite confusing


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

A new contender I will have to test for laptop use is the Headstage Lyrix Pro, with USB DAC, bass boost, gain and crossfeed, charging circuit, and a 4.1" x 2.6" x 1.1" size.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZheadstage

 The PenguinAmp Caffeine I recently tested was a parallel product that turned into the Headstage Lyrix Pro. It should sound the same as far as I can tell, which is great news. My review http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265247

 So, with the sound AND features, I wouldn't be surprised if it sells between $150-180 or more...


----------



## jorgillo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Deathwish238* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool, thanks.

 Any thoughts on the iBasso D2? I'ld be using it as a DAC/amp w/ my laptop primarily

 So many options gets quite confusing_

 

iBasso D2? Does this model exists? Or are you thinking about the upgrade version of the D1?


----------



## Deathwish238

haha...I meant iBasso D1...I keep thinking of Cowon D2...


----------



## ckhirnigs113

Has anyone had a chance to listen to the Minibox-E/PK1 combo? I have 5g iPod Video and I would be using the lineout --> Minibox-E --> PK1. Thanks, CK


----------



## mrarroyo

I have added two additional amps to the 3rd post for a total of 33 amps. Thanks.


----------



## jorgillo

Miguel, that green color really hurts my eyes


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, the green is hard to read. Would it be possible to date the top of the comparisons. Like the 33 amps with a date then I would know for sure what the latest rating is. I assume the latest, as you stated it is in the 3rd post, has the Reference on the top. 

 That is a lot of hard work. Thank you for the effort you put forth so we can read and get some ideas. The P1 at the bottom? what opamps were you using?


----------



## mrarroyo

The 3rd post contains the overall rankings, and as I add additional amps or revisions they get incorporated into said list. Also any new additions are added at the end of the 3rd post w/ a date followed by the amps/comments.

 I will change the green color to something less garish!


----------



## jamato8

Ok, I am confused. Where is the ranking for the amp in you newest post besides the P2? You listened to a high and low gain but where is it or have I overlooked it? For me it would be easier to have the date of the ranking above the ranking so I know that it is as of a certain date but I am always sure which ranking to look at as there are several in the 3rd post.


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I am confused. Where is the ranking for the amp in you newest post besides the P2? You listened to a high and low gain but where is it or have I overlooked it? For me it would be easier to have the date of the ranking above the ranking so I know that it is as of a certain date but I am always sure which ranking to look at as there are several in the 3rd post._

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/33-...3/#post3136767

 Look at number 7


----------



## jamato8

Ooooh, ok I see it. Thanks!


----------



## fraseyboy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ooooh, ok I see it. Thanks!_

 

I found it hard to find at first since the full 'Graham Slee Voyager' isn't written so Ctrl F'ing that didn't work.


----------



## mrarroyo

UPDATE - March 8, 2008

 It has been a long time since I have posted on this thread. Many amps have come and gone since and of those I will be writing a bit on:

 - MiniBox-E+
 - iQube
 - Predator
 - Pico

 If you compare this latest set of 4 amps there is no doubt tha the MiniBox-E+ is the ugly duckling. The iQube exudes elegance, the Pico pizzaz, and the Predator tank like quality. The iQube is the largest but still small as compared to other units like the LaRocco, or the Xenos. The reamining three are small w/ the Pico having an edge.

 In this review I am only comparing the amp section of this 4 new amps and not their dacs. I should mention that Boomana was present and she brought the Stax Portable Electrostatic amp/can unit. Lots of clarity and detail. However the bass was a bit light. This stax will not be included in the comparison since it is for dyanmic amps.

 To me and I believe also for Vorlon1 and Boomana the MiniBox-E+ was a very eye opening experience that such an small and relatively inexpensive unit (about $180) could sound so good. Well it does and IMO just about every one should own one. The Minibox-E+ allows op-amp rolling, a task that I hope to start soon.

 The iQube was somewhat of a dispointment, I had high hopes for this amp and based on looks, quality of construction, features and size it should have been in the top 5. However its sound which was not bad was lackluster and at a $500 premium I felt the other three offer way bette value. A few have reviewed this unit and have given it a very high mark, since I respect their opinion I expected the iQube to be ranked as high by myself as well.

 The impact and bass of the Predator is in lines w/ Ray's house sound. If you do not need a dac go and get a Hornet unless you listen to Jazz/Classical in which case I would suggest the SR71. BTW, the SR71 is one of my favorite portable amps of all time. I will start looking for one soon.

 The Pico is a beautiful amp, just begs to e placed on a display. However it is not my cup of tea. I should mention that I did try it as a dac and as such it is amazing. If you are looking for an amp/dac combo in an ultra miniature size give the Pico a lot of consideration. I have not listened to the new iBasso D2 but even if it sounds better it is a larger unit.

 That is for it now. The adventure continues. Note: Any of the top 15 amps on the list will make anyone happy.


----------



## antonyfirst

Miguel, what happened to the P2? It was second in ranking as far as I recall.


----------



## jamato8

What are the rankings then? I still find it hard to figure out the latest list of 1 through whatever number in the rankings. Thank you for all of the work, or was it pleasure?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Miguel, what happened to the P2? It was second in ranking as far as I recall._

 

I have had an slight change of heart w/ the P2. However w/ the op-amps that are on the way it may move back up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are the rankings then? I still find it hard to figure out the latest list of 1 through whatever number in the rankings. Thank you for all of the work, or was it pleasure?_

 

It is pleasure, howerver it gets very confusing trying to compare notes specially when some of those notes are from a year or longer ago. Here is the standings as of today (will change some)

 1. Xin Reference (late production and w/ a 12,000 pF cap)
 2. Supermicro IV w/ 4/11 mods 
 3. LaRocco PRII MkII
 3. MiniBox-E+
 3. SR71
 3. iQube
 4. iBasso D1 (modded w/ different op-amps)
 4. Supermicro IV w/o 4/11 mods
 5. Minibox-E tied w/ Mini3
 6. Supermacro LE (Hi-Flight's) and the TTVJ Millet Hybrid Portable
 7. Xenos X1HA-EPC tied with the Hornet “M” and Predator (amp section only)
 8. Meier’s Move tied with the LaRocco PRII
 9. iBasso P2 tied with the Voyager
 10. Porta Coda MkIII tied w/ the Pico (amp section only)
 11. Go-Vibe 7
 12. AE-2 tied with the Tomahawk
 13. Supermini IV (pre 4/11 and late May mods)
 14. Portaphile V2^2
 15. Go-Vibe V6
 16. Practical Devices XM3 w/ AD822 tied w/ the UHA-3
 17. Go-Vibe V5 tied w/ DieInAFire Pint
 18. Mister X Pint
 19. C&C Box
 20. Little Dot Micro+
 21. Xenos OHA-REP
 22. PA2V2
 23. iBasso P1


----------



## jamato8

Where is the Pico, Predator and 2 others? We all have differences in what we hear but I like the P2 better than your ranking.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is the Pico, Predator and 2 others? We all have differences in what we hear but I like the P2 better than your ranking._

 

Pico is at #10 and the Predator is at #7 (amp sections only). The P2 is one amp that I need to re-test w/ other op-amps, somedays I love the P2 and others leaves me wanting more. What op-amps would you suggest? Thanks.


----------



## cowboyjack2008

I, for one, want to thank you for all the work you put into this thread. It has proven to be the single most helpful review of headphone amps I have found on the internet.


----------



## mrarroyo

Thanks, there are other as good perhaps better comparisons here at Head-Fi, and remember we all hear differently and what is good for me may not be good for you and viceversa. Also any of the amps listed in 15th or higher would make most very happy.


----------



## wolfen68

I have to admit I've heard several of the amps you've commented on here and I almost totally agree on your impressions....we must have matched ears. 

 As a side note: I still search for a better "high end" all arounder than the SR71...but haven't found it yet.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wolfen68* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to admit I've heard several of the amps you've commented on here and I almost totally agree on your impressions....we must have matched ears. 

 As a side note: I still search for a better "high end" all arounder than the SR71...but haven't found it yet._

 

Thanks, the SR71 is a tough act to follow let alone beat. Some amps can do a particular type of music better but lack in others. IMO, among the amps I have listened too only three come to mind. These are:

 - LaRocco PRII MkII
 - MiniBox-E+
 - Xin Reference (12,000 uF cap) and the Supermicro IV w/ the 4/11/07 mods

 Yes it is 4 and not 3 but the two offerings from Dr. Xin are close. Disclaimer: Although I love the Xin house sound it is hard to recommend his amps because he has been "absent" for quite a few months. So you either buy them used or from another vendor.


----------



## gi330i

Mr Arroyo: in the earlier part of this thread you did review the corda move but you stated you would need to revisit this amp after more burn in occurred. Have you had a chance to revisit this amp (or still plan to) and am interested in hearing your impressions of it as compared to your latest amp updates especially the Minibox E+. Thanks.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gi330i* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mr Arroyo: in the earlier part of this thread you did review the corda move but you stated you would need to revisit this amp after more burn in occurred. Have you had a chance to revisit this amp (or still plan to) and am interested in hearing your impressions of it as compared to your latest amp updates especially the Minibox E+. Thanks._

 

The Move I tested is no longer in production, at this time I have no plans to test its replacement.


----------



## gi330i

Thank you.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Move I tested is no longer in production, at this time I have no plans to test its replacement._

 

I think it is rather unfair to rank the Move at 10 hours since so many have commented it needs burn-in like the rest of the amps you have reviewed after many many more hours of burn-in. If you aren't going to give it a fair shake you should at least expunge that portion of the review.


----------



## Skylab

Miguel, PM me if you want to borrow the 2Move to update your thread with.


----------



## jamato8

Thanks for all the hard work. My head would ache do those over a short period of time like both of you have at times. I like to take my time but have done rapid comparisons but I don't enjoy it very much most of the time. 

 On the P2, Ron would has the best combination for sound, with regards to opamps.

 The problem with the Reference is that there are a few different ones, not just the beta models. While I realize there are those that love the 22,000uf version, which is what Skylab heard, I find the 12,000uf better in all areas. I also read Skylab's conclusion on the sound of the Reference and wondered what he was hearing. I subsequently received the Reference being passed around and agree with Skylab's observation. The difference between that one and mine are obvious with better defined imagery, bass quality and transparency being with the one I have and apparently with some that others have.


----------



## antonyfirst

You might want to send it to Skylab then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 That would be awesome.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it is rather unfair to rank the Move at 10 hours since so many have commented it needs burn-in like the rest of the amps you have reviewed after many many more hours of burn-in. If you aren't going to give it a fair shake you should at least expunge that portion of the review._

 

Instead of attacking and telling me what to do (If you aren't going to give it a fair shake you should at least expunge that portion of the review) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 perhaps you could send me the Move you have listed in your profile so I can listen to it.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Miguel, PM me if you want to borrow the 2Move to update your thread with._

 

PM sent, thanks.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for all the hard work. My head would ache do those over a short period of time like both of you have at times. I like to take my time but have done rapid comparisons but I don't enjoy it very much most of the time. 

 On the P2, Ron would has the best combination for sound, with regards to opamps.

 The problem with the Reference is that there are a few different ones, not just the beta models. While I realize there are those that love the 22,000uf version, which is what Skylab heard, I find the 12,000uf better in all areas. I also read Skylab's conclusion on the sound of the Reference and wondered what he was hearing. I subsequently received the Reference being passed around and agree with Skylab's observation. The difference between that one and mine are obvious with better defined imagery, bass quality and transparency being with the one I have and apparently with some that others have._

 

Jam, I ordered a couple of the Panasonic FC 12,000 uF 10V. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I will install it on my old (Ver. 1C from May 2007) Reference, and perhpas in Vorlon1's as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At the same time I ordered a couple of the Panasonic FC 2,200 uF 10V to install in the MiniBox-E+ to replace the two 1,700 uF caps. Fang responded that 1,700 uF caps were used in the MiniBox-E+ because they could not find a high quality 2,200 uF caps. Will let yo know the results.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of attacking and telling me what to do (If you aren't going to give it a fair shake you should at least expunge that portion of the review) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 perhaps you could send me the Move you have listed in your profile so I can listen to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I owned one but do not own it anymore. If I still had it, I'd be happy to send it to you. If you don't agree that the section as it stands does a disservice to the amp and manufacturer, what can I say?


----------



## oicdn

SO you rate the Voyager along the side of the P2? Hmm...maybe I'll have to get my hands on one of those to get a listen. I assume that's with the contour switch OFF (IIRC, you preferred it in the off position right?)?


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oicdn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_SO you rate the Voyager along the side of the P2? Hmm...maybe I'll have to get my hands on one of those to get a listen. I assume that's with the contour switch OFF (IIRC, you preferred it in the off position right?)?_

 

Yes, contour switch off.


----------



## Spiritboxer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Instead of attacking and telling me what to do (If you aren't going to give it a fair shake you should at least expunge that portion of the review) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 perhaps you could send me the Move you have listed in your profile so I can listen to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I, for one, don't agree with *all* your findings but I appreciate and thank you for the time and effort you've put into your reviews and your contributions to the community as a whole. 

 Carlos


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spiritboxer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I, for one, don't agree with *all* your findings but I appreciate and thank you for the time and effort you've put into your reviews and your contributions to the community as a whole. 

 Carlos_

 

Thanks Carlos, if someone sends me a Move I will gladly review it. I believe it is a very well made product by a solid company. I love the Porta Corda's and would enjoy listening to the Move again.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Spiritboxer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I, for one, don't agree with *all* your findings but I appreciate and thank you for the time and effort you've put into your reviews and your contributions to the community as a whole._

 

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his findings, time and effort too. Agreeing with the results have nothing to do with it. If he says it sounds worse than it is rated after 100 hours that is his call to make. I don't have a Move, my feelings aren't hurt, etc. 

 While I can't say what his thoughts were at the time of the 10 hour review, it *appears* that he felt he wasn't getting the best of it as he said he'd return to it at a later date. It's well documented that he believes amps need to be burned in until they stop changing. If his ranking was based on that session (and there's nothing I've read stating otherwise), why position it based on those observations? Is this really being fair to Dr. Meier?

 If he takes Skylab up on his offer and reviews a well burned-in later version (which are supposed to be the same as Move's amp with a better DAC implementation), I'd think the positioning would at least be a fair approximation where the old Move would/could have been. The chips will fall as they may.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Carlos, if someone sends me a Move I will gladly review it. I believe it is a very well made product by a solid company. I love the Porta Corda's and would enjoy listening to the Move again._

 

That's good, because my 2Move is headed your way


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's good, because my 2Move is headed your way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Great! as I understand it the Move and 2Move share the same amp section so listening to the 2Move will kill two birds w/ one stone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks.

 BTW what do you think of the new avatar? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got it from: VW


----------



## Skylab

Yes, the 2Move has the identical amp section to the Move. The DAC is different, as are the jacks and the battery door.


----------



## Spiritboxer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *itsborken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his findings, time and effort too. Agreeing with the results have nothing to do with it. If he says it sounds worse than it is rated after 100 hours that is his call to make. I don't have a Move, my feelings aren't hurt, etc. 

 While I can't say what his thoughts were at the time of the 10 hour review, it *appears* that he felt he wasn't getting the best of it as he said he'd return to it at a later date. It's well documented that he believes amps need to be burned in until they stop changing. If his ranking was based on that session (and there's nothing I've read stating otherwise), why position it based on those observations? Is this really being fair to Dr. Meier?

 If he takes Skylab up on his offer and reviews a well burned-in later version (which are supposed to be the same as Move's amp with a better DAC implementation), I'd think the positioning would at least be a fair approximation where the old Move would/could have been. The chips will fall as they may._

 

There's a native american word for "We are all family". Damned if I can remember what it is but peace brother, it's never my intention to do harm or belittle anyone.


----------



## mrarroyo

Just added the 2Move. Please be advised that we all hear differently, just because the sound out of an amp is not for me please do not extrapolate anything on the amp. It only means that we all have different ears. Or to put it differently, some like chocolate while others prefer vanilla. Neither is wrong! and neither is right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks to Skylab for loaning me the 2Move.


----------



## Skylab

My pleasure! And indeed, we all hear things differently. That is why it's so good that you and I both have the large portable amp reviews - it gives people two alternative takes on things.

 Also, just FWIW, my 2Move's "logo-less" chassis is a one-off, and not something people should ask Jan for, as he doesn't have any others like mine.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* 
_I then swapped op-amps in the MiniBox-E+, now it has two AD797. Now it is a bit warmer/darker and with more rounder treble, very extended and with no harshness._

 

I am glad you found a good use for those AD797 I sent! I wish I could fit them in my D2, but I am going to go ahead and try my spares in the Lyrix. I sent the third set out with the Super Macro 3 to South Korea, and they sounded great in that one too...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am glad you found a good use for those AD797 I sent! I wish I could fit them in my D2, but I am going to go ahead and try my spares in the Lyrix. I sent the third set out with the Super Macro 3 to South Korea, and they sounded great in that one too..._

 

They worked out very nicely, vorlon1 listened to it and liked it as well. Thanks.


----------



## itsborken

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just added the 2Move._

 

Thanks for doing that evaluation.


----------



## Jap

[size=medium]Inquiring minds are a-hankering to know: any chance that there will be a review of the TriadAudio Lisa III? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]


----------



## kevo

It would be nice to have a periodic update to this review that picks up any newly released amplifiers...


----------



## antonyfirst

They do it already.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jap* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=medium]Inquiring minds are a-hankering to know: any chance that there will be a review of the TriadAudio Lisa III? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/size]_

 

I have thought long and hard about this. On one side of the equation I am very tempted by the various reviews and my previous experience with his designs.

 On the other side the unit is IMO transportable at best, and there is the issue of me wanting one right after I listen to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Trying to save my wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There is a fellow Head-Fier in Miami that has one and has offered to loan it, perhpas if he sent me a PM I might just be tempted ...


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *antonyfirst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They do it already._

 

We try, next will be the amp section of an iBasso D2 and the Little Dot.


----------



## Jap

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have thought long and hard about this. On one side of the equation I am very tempted by the various reviews and my previous experience with his designs.

 On the other side the unit is IMO transportable at best, and there is the issue of me wanting one right after I listen to it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Trying to save my wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*There is a fellow Head-Fier in Miami that has one and has offered to loan it, perhpas if he sent me a PM I might just be tempted ...*



_

 

[size=medium]Be tempted, be tempted! Come, Miguel! Come . . . to the *dark side!*





[/size]


----------



## leo5111

mrarroyo, did you ever roll the amps on the mini-box-e? i looked didnt see anything thanx


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leo5111* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mrarroyo, did you ever roll the amps on the mini-box-e? i looked didnt see anything thanx_

 

He put in a pair of AD797 that I gave him, and he liked them.


----------



## leo5111

HeadphoneAddict, was that on the e or e+ wondering because i bought a regular e off someone here waiting for it to come, thanks


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leo5111* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeadphoneAddict, was that on the e or e+ wondering because i bought a regular e off someone here waiting for it to come, thanks_

 

Both the E and the E+ come stock with the AD8610 followed by the BB BUF634.


----------



## leo5111

ok thanx


----------



## Victor Chew

How would you rate the Xin Macro IV?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I know I can say I would rate my old SM III V3 as above the Headsix and Lyrix, but below the Predator and Pico and 2MOVE. It was probably on the level of the iBasso D2 before I rolled opamps in the D2 to make it better. Haven't heard a SM IV yet though.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Victor Chew* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would you rate the Xin Macro IV?_

 

Owned several. Last one was a Supermacro IV LE. Very warm sound, quite "tubey" with huge soundstage. And, if you can roll opamps, totally customizable.

 All that said, though, wasnt quite what I wanted, then discovered I am a huge Ray Samuels' fanboy--or fanoldman. Just love his sparkling sound in all hs amps. But, if it's tubesound you want, the Supermacro is the road to go


----------



## rei_yano

what is the max impedance output from the picos headphone jack?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict * /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know I can say I would rate my old SM III V3 as above the Headsix and Lyrix, but below the Predator and Pico and 2MOVE. It was probably on the level of the iBasso D2 before I rolled opamps in the D2 to make it better. Haven't heard a SM IV yet though._

 

I want to clarify that this is my rank based on sound quality and enjoyment, not sound signature. The Super Macro 3 actually has a similar signature to the Meier amps.


----------



## mrarroyo

I guess I am to lazy to update this thread. Since I have listened to the Little Dot portable amp, iBasso Boa, a couple of the Go-Vibes by Dr. Wilson, etc.

 But now there are quite a few Head-Fiers posting their portable amp opinion and are doing a very nice job that makes updating this thread unnecessary.


----------



## Skylab

You just burned out, my friend. So did I. 38 is a lot of portable amps! And also, once I got an iQube, I really am not interested in any new portable amps myself


----------



## jamato8

I have a pile of portables and can understand how, after a few years, that just finding one that gets you close to the music is the "happy" moment. I have the new Reference, and it is excellent. I have stated my feelings on the Predator, which, in my opininion, does a fine job.


----------



## trickywombat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You just burned out, my friend. So did I. 38 is a lot of portable amps! And also, once I got an iQube, I really am not interested in any new portable amps myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

While my experience with audio is insignificant compared to yours and other's, that's how I feel about my iQube. I've tried many amps, and finally realized I wanted an amp for prolonged listening that, in simplistic terms, "Does Nothing".

 With the iQube, all I hear is my iPod's music, not the headamp.

 If iQube made a version with a DAC, would you be interested in reviewing it?


----------



## justin w.

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rei_yano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what is the max impedance output from the picos headphone jack?_

 

Output impedance of the amp or acceptable headphone impedances?


----------



## rei_yano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin w.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Output impedance of the amp or acceptable headphone impedances?_

 

here is the thing. I do not really understand what impedance means and how you can descern whether an amp will be able to drive a headphone with lets say 300ohms. I cant wrap my head around it and I want to be able to look at amp spec sheets and have the knowledge to know what will work and what will not.


----------



## Victor Chew

Normally, the higher the impedance the more difficult to drive the headphones. Iems tend to have low impedance and are easier to drive (ie. more sensitive). Some of the big/full sized headphones have high impedance and more difficult to drive. There are pros and cons in high and low impedance. High can to pick up all kinds of floor noises and hisses. Low means you will need an amp with sufficient power to move the cones. However, impedance has nothing to do with the matching of sound signature.


----------

