# Best DIY speakers



## intlplby

I'm interested in maybe embarking on DIYing some speakers.

 I currently have a commercial set of speakers that go down to 42Hz but I would love to have something that goes down to the 20-30Hz range with good soundstage and imaging...

 i know there are literally dozens and dozens of DIY speaker plans out there....

 i don't want to start from scratch and design the cabinet and crossover myself.... i just want a tried and tested design that is very highly regarded

 where do I look?
 what is considered the mother of all DIY speaker designs?


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## Wodgy

The current "mother of all DIY designs" is almost unquestionably the Linkwitz Orion:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm
 Beyond the solid science, one nice thing about the Orion is that there are many professional reviews out there, so you'll at least have some idea of how it sounds before you build. There is also a list of people who've volunteered to let you come to their homes and have a listen.

 If you want the last octave of bass with the Orion, you'll need to also build the Thor subwoofer, designed to complement it. That's the price for dipole bass on the mains.

 John Krutke also recently published a "statement" two-way design:
http://zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html
 Cheaper to build than the Orion, but still not cheap, and you would still want a sub, most likely. Another option is Krutke's Waveguide TMM, which is the design he currently uses for his own personal listening. It's also reasonably inexpensive to build:
http://zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html
 The Waveguide TMM is quite efficient and thus has the dynamics, but it won't have the lowest octave. It should go low enough for music though. I'm building a pair of these currently.

 Another option to consider is the MBOW1 3-way:
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=MBOW1_3-WAY.html
 It uses a pair of 10 inch woofers and you could play with the port tuning to get it satisfyingly low.

 The last octave is always a problem. Really, it's better to build mains that go cleanly down to 40 Hz or so, and then fill in the last octave with a sub. That low, integration isn't a problem, and you can run the mains fullrange.


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## ooheadsoo

If you must consider the orions, then you should also consider Kreskovsy's Not Another Orion: http://musicanddesign.com/naomain.html

 Zaph's Vifa XG18 / Seas 27TDFC MTM also extends down to the low 30s in floorstanding vented config. http://zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker16.html

 Oh, and before I forget, here's Danny Richie's OB-7 kit: http://www.gr-research.com/kits/ob-7.shtm
 Plays into the mid 20s anechoic, open baffle mids.


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## intlplby

the orions require 8 channels of power amplification

 what's the best option if you only have two power amps?


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## Wodgy

That's a hard question. What is your budget? Are you building the cabinets yourself? What kind of power amplification do you have? Tube or solid state?


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## happyangryhappy

The Orions are probably one of the most highly regarded DIY speakers, but for a few other links you could look at:

HTGuide forum has a number of designs of which two I have built myself and really like. Generally these are more simple designs like the ZaphAudio link above, although the well documented Arvo project is supposed to be very similar to the Orion.

DIY Loudspeaker Projects has quite a few nice higher end projects and clones to check out.

Humble Homemade Hifi has a number as well.

 Also if you are interested in a fullrange speakers like a Cain and Abby clone or similar have a look over at DiyAudio as there are ton's of guys building over there as well.

 And here is one more page of just general speaker building links as well.


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## intlplby

these are my power amps

http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/cyber800.htm

 I would be making the cabinets myself. My older brother used to be a carpenter and would be able to help me.


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## Wodgy

Since you're running tubes, your best bet would probably be John Krutke's Waveguide TMMs:
http://zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html
 You've got enough power there to drive most speakers, but the Waveguide TMMs have the advantage of having a flat impedance, which means the relatively high output impedance of the your amps won't affect the frequency response of the speakers. To see an example of this happening, see the first graph here:
http://www.stereophile.com/integrate...ma/index3.html
 Notice that the amplifier's frequency response varies by almost +/-3dB into the simulated speaker load. This is not atypical for tube amps, especially ones with minimal amounts of feedback. A speaker with a relatively flat impedance avoids this problem. 

 The Waveguide TMMs are also quite efficient, so they'd work with a lower powered tube amp if you ever wanted to experiment with one of those. They also have a fairly good power response thanks to the waveguide, so they'll be suitable for a variety of rooms.


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## ooheadsoo

For a conventional box speaker that plays like the best of them, I forgot to mention selah audio's kits. Good prices, and he can custom design for your needs, as well. Ask him if you can get a kit of his new 3d which was very well received at the 06 RMAF or his RC5, which looks quite killer, as well. Or one of his line arrays, if that's your style. http://selahaudio.com/


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## intlplby

thanks for the info

 two more questions:

 what are some good sites on how to work with the wood including information about tools needed and whatnot? I'm not familiar with working with wood.


 what's considered the best pair of 2-way shelf speakers? Something that can be used in a small office or a small bedroom.

 i should probably start with something simple like that before embarking on some huge mission


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## ooheadsoo

There is no universally accepted best design in any category. There are just too many competent designers. This design that Wodgy suggested should be as good as any: http://zaphaudio.com/ZD5.html


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intlplby* 
_thanks for the info

 two more questions:

 what are some good sites on how to work with the wood including information about tools needed and whatnot? I'm not familiar with working with wood._

 

You'll be working with MDF actually, not wood (MDF has superior acoustic properties and is a lot cheaper too). MDF isn't too hard to work with. For speaker building, we typically just use butt joints. Just cut the pieces into rectangles, clamp together with glue, then sand all the joints smooth. The Madisound forum and the Parts Express forum are both good places to ask specific construction questions. This page basically condenses everything you need to know about all aspects of speaker building in one convenient place:
http://zaphaudio.com/mantras.html

  Quote:


 what's considered the best pair of 2-way shelf speakers? Something that can be used in a small office or a small bedroom. 
 

The link ooheadsoo gave you is a good one. That's a very high end 2-way bookshelf design (also expensive to build). If you're looking for a starter 2-way project that's well respected, consider the Modula MT design from HTGuide or the MBOW1/CAOW1 from Murphyblaster or one of the cheaper Zaphaudio designs. All of those will have a decent amount of feedback online. Both ooheadsoo and I have built the MBOW1 actually. (Though the MBOW1 is no longer quite as cheap to build as it once was, because with exchange rates the tweeters have become extremely expensive and there is also a lot of copper used, which has also increased in price.) I would probably recommend the Modula design as a high-quality starter project. Choose the variant using the Seas tweeter rather than the Dayton tweeter. A lot of people have built that project, including a couple here, so there should be good feedback.


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## Wodgy

One other thing to add: if this is your first DIY project, remember to account for miscellaneous expenses when you're budgeting for the project. This is as true for speaker DIY as it is for electronics DIY, but I went a lot more over budget on my first speaker project than my first electronics project. Just remember to think about what's reasonable to spend on things like sandpaper, finishing supplies, shipping costs, etc. and budget for that. If you choose a project where you can use prefab cabinets, like the ones Parts Express sells, it's a little easier to estimate costs since a lot of steps are done for you. On the other hand, it's very satisfying and addictive when you actually finish a whole pair of speakers on your own.


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## ooheadsoo

I just remembered that Selah offers a nice high end 2 way using a fountek ribbon and a scanspeak revelator: http://selahaudio.com/id124.html

 Oops, I accidently accredited the NaO speakers to Krutke (zaph.) Actually, they were designed by Transient Perfect developer John Kreskovsky.


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## Uncle Erik

Another popular DIY speaker is the ProAc Response 2.5 clone, or "ClonAc." The 2.5 is a highly regarded speaker and those who have listened to both it and the ClonAc find them to be almost identical. I did a lot of reading about a year ago, and bit. They're terrific speakers. Google for Response 2.5 reviews and see what reviewers and others thought of them.

 You can find the complete plans and links to information here:

http://www.geocities.com/diyproac25/

 Total cost ended up a little over $1k, and I think they are worth it. If you build, I recommend the AlphaCore air core inductors. They have plenty low DCR and sound very nice. Also, use the optional notch filter. They sound better with it.

 The low bass response reportedly goes slightly below 40Hz, though I don't have an exact figure. It's plenty good for me. I have seen some complain about the bass being excessive, but I believe that has more to do with your room and placement.

 Since you're running tubes, rumor is that the original 2.5 was designed and voiced with them. I don't know that for a fact, but I do know they're happy with tubes.

 The strong suits of these are imaging and soundstage. Just wonderful. On the site listed above, one person put these in the same league as the Quad ESL and Wilsons. Now, I've heard Quads, and while they're better, these are awfully good. Go do some homework on these. That's what convinced me.


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## niknik

Some nice designs:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Lou...r_Projects.htm


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## ooheadsoo

Actually, amongst a few diy gurus, they quite dislike the original proac 2.5 and cite several design issues which I conveniently can't remember. I think you can do much better. I would hope that the clone would actually sound better, but given the driver choices, which were part of the concern of the diyers not in favor of the original proac2.5, they probably didn't have much choice. I do remember extensive driver mods in attempts to correct undesirable behavior in the clones.

 Troels's website was linked to earlier by happyangryhappy.


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## jpr703

I'd like to learn more about active speakers (especially DIY designs) and am rather curious about the Orions.

 Does anyone have (or know of) any comments as to the quality and sonic signature of the amp and crossover that are recommended in the Orion kit? 

 The price on those items seems right, but I can't help but wonder if there would be any significant improvement with one of the other high quality multichannel amps out there. The new Bryston 8 channel, for example, looks pretty sweet.


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## ooheadsoo

Most engineers who research and develop active designs don't seem to care much about megabuck amp issues as long as they have the requisite specs. I wonder why. 

 Kreskovsky's transient perfect NaO II system is also active, iirc, and should be worthy of consideration.


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## jpr703

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ooheadsoo* 
_Most engineers who research and develop active designs don't seem to care much about megabuck amp issues as long as they have the requisite specs. I wonder why. 

 Kreskovsky's transient perfect NaO II system is also active, iirc, and should be worthy of consideration._

 


 I've noticed that. I wonder if it's because the tonal qualities of the amp don't show through as much in active systems or if it's because the engineering types just figure an amp is an amp is an amp and design solely by specs.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpr703* 
_I'd like to learn more about active speakers (especially DIY designs) and am rather curious about the Orions.

 Does anyone have (or know of) any comments as to the quality and sonic signature of the amp and crossover that are recommended in the Orion kit? 

 The price on those items seems right, but I can't help but wonder if there would be any significant improvement with one of the other high quality multichannel amps out there. The new Bryston 8 channel, for example, looks pretty sweet._

 

Almost all of the reviews of the Orions you read are describing the Linkwitz-recommended system (this includes the ATI amp). Embedded within the review will be an implicit discussion of the amp's sonic signature, though it may not be discussed explicitly.

 However, you're welcome to use a different amp if you like. Some Orion builders use the Hypex DIY modules, others use Gainclone variations, and of course Bryston gear would be more than capable. The Orion's active crossover means that whatever amp you're using is driving a very easy load with a very smooth, uniform impedance curve. The amp sees only the speaker's voice coil, not a bunch of inductors and capacitors. It's the easiest load you can imagine, so no amp is going to be very stressed. However, the choice of amp may make a small difference in how the tweeter sounds. If you like how Brystons handle the top end (this has improved a lot with the newer Brystons) and have the money, I wouldn't hesitate to use one of the newer Brystons.


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## ooheadsoo

If you take SL's recommendation of a minimum of 40w solid state per channel seriously, you have tons of choices. 40w is peanuts. Probably the only modern amps you can get LESS than 40w are $50 receivers and the t-amp. Ok, and maybe some pass labs and other crazy extreme amps like that.


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## jpr703

So I take it that the amps sonic signature doesn't have too much effect on the final sound in an active system. That could definitely save a few bucks.

 How about the pre-amp? Is it still just as important in an active system as it is in a non active one?


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## ooheadsoo

Imo, only your own personal trial and error will allow you to determine your own sense of value for high end electronics. Some engineers do get picky and fussy about their amps, some don't. I wish we all had local shops with nice return policies.


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## Wodgy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jpr703* 
_So I take it that the amps sonic signature doesn't have too much effect on the final sound in an active system. That could definitely save a few bucks.

 How about the pre-amp? Is it still just as important in an active system as it is in a non active one?_

 

The source and preamp are still just as important as before. Linkwitz himself uses an older Lexicon pre-pro; that's probably the weak point in his own system.


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## Uncle Erik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ooheadsoo* 
_Actually, amongst a few diy gurus, they quite dislike the original proac 2.5 and cite several design issues which I conveniently can't remember. I think you can do much better. I would hope that the clone would actually sound better, but given the driver choices, which were part of the concern of the diyers not in favor of the original proac2.5, they probably didn't have much choice. I do remember extensive driver mods in attempts to correct undesirable behavior in the clones._

 

You're right, they're not perfect. I think you're talking about the peak around 2kHz. Troels Gravesen worked a notch filter into the crossover that tames that pretty well. I used it. Also, I understand that the originals used iron core inductors. I used Alpha Core air core inductors, with a much lower DCR than the originals and some futzy caps. They really do sound good, and I find that the reviews of the original apply pretty well to the clones. There's a good reason ProAc sold a lot of the originals, originals sell quickly on Audiogon, ProAc still makes a speaker substantially similar, and the clone is popular. While imperfect, they're still a very musical and pleasing speaker.

 They might not be the drool-worthy Orions and the AKG K-1000 outclasses them, but it's tough to do better with such a modest investment. The moderate size and clean looks appeal a lot to me, as well.


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## ooheadsoo

I'm glad you're happy with your clones! Not my intention to put your project down. I think every project has its drawbacks. I still want a 3 way with 4 or so 10" or 12" woofers on each side on the bottom to reduce distortion, but what a cabinet that'd be, eh? 

 The driver mods I was referring to included things like applying glue to the surround and things like that, not an electrical filter. I remember it was originally in Troels pdf on the project. I haven't read it in years.


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## Wodgy

On the topic of the ProAc 2.5 clones, someone is currently selling a pair on the Madisound forum, if anyone's interested in buying rather than building.


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## magnetik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *intlplby* 
_thanks for the info

 two more questions:

 what are some good sites on how to work with the wood including information about tools needed and whatnot? I'm not familiar with working with wood.


 what's considered the best pair of 2-way shelf speakers? Something that can be used in a small office or a small bedroom.

 i should probably start with something simple like that before embarking on some huge mission_

 

you can checkout my worklog for my tempest sub. I have a lot of woodworking (even laminating) tips on it. Might not be as fancy as some others but you might pick up some things from it. It's also from a woodworking noobs standpoint. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





DIY Tempest Subwoofer


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## Wodgy

That's a fantastic DIY sub project. You did a great job. It seems that probably the majority of speaker builders get started with sub projects.


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## magnetik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wodgy* 
_That's a fantastic DIY sub project. You did a great job. It seems that probably the majority of speaker builders get started with sub projects._

 

thanks! I think the main reason I built the sub first was that I didn't have to learn to make crossovers...


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## theHof

Are there any new designs to be considered nearly 10 years later or are these listed still the big contenders?


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