# Brief Odac impressions



## MikeW

Got my Odac module in from JDS Labs, installed into my O2. Some brief thoughts :
   
  Clean clean clean
  non-offensive treble, but great resolution
  tight, controlled, impactful bass.
  resolution
  dead quiet, silent
  unforgiving
  warm
  detailed
  easy listening
  plug n play, no skipping, no hiccups, windows recognized instantly, and was good to go in ~5 seconds.
  24 bit, with close to 20 bit resolution ~ software volume control becomes viable without loss of detail.
   
  It's tiny! All SMD! can be used with any amp, would be a great module to include in your favorite DIY AMP to make it into an all in one.
  I've only got a few hours listening, but these are some of the things that jumped out at me. More serious listening is needed.


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## WiR3D

Nice


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## livewire

Got my JDS Labs Odac board a few days ago.
  It IS tiny, albeit very nice construction.
  What chaffs my hide is the lack of instructions to install an output jack.
   
  Jack part number and supplier would be nice, and there is the doubt about
  the solder pad bridges underneath that lead from the line-out traces/pads.
  Does one solder in resistors, if so what value? Or does one bridge them with a blob of solder?
  Or maybe forget about them, and leave them alone?
  Also the negative pads for the line out are not clearly marked.
  If one is handy with a DMM, you could check for ground-plane & trace continuity I guess.
   
  Still I think that a simple instruction page should be included for the end user if the builder is going to leave components off.
  Or maybe I am missing something here? Could this info already be posted somewhere?
   
  Anywho, Ima gonna solder it up and box it as I see fit, cant wait to hear the wunerful music!


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## livewire

Thought I'd add - on the plus side, the JDS Labs offering includes the oddball USB cable with the mini-B connector.
  Just wish they would mention it in their product offering, I almost went out and bought one while anticipating delivery of my Odac.
   
  The Canadian distributor offers the Odac with a USB cable *AND* the 1/8 inch mini jack (not soldered to the board).
   
  Edit - added the following:
   
  Just fired the Odac up. What the OP said. Well worth the price of admission.
  Good sounding unit, gonna need more time with it to form impressions.
  I am comparing it to the HRT MS2 and MS2+ DACs, running a STAX SRS-2050 system.


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## bada bing

I'm listening to my new ODAC that I installed this afternoon in one of my O2s.
   
  The install is not plug and play.
  The ODAC board fits in the place of the batteries as designed.
  The wire routing between the ODAC and O2 board takes a bit of
  head scratching. The O2 amp board wasn't designed for easy
  plug and play connection with the new ODAC. You have to pick up 
  Left-Right-Ground from underneath the O2 board under the input jack
  and route the wires to the top side of the amp board. I ended up routing
  3 runs of 24g navships wire squeezed through the pcb lead holes for P1.
  I cut the input jack traces as described in Voldemort's blog and the
  switching between input jack and onboard ODAC works as expected.
   
  My WinXP desktop recognized the ODAC as "odac" and configuration
  went quickly. Nice that the USB interface was programed to identify
  itself to Windoze as "odac' rather than "USB audio device" like every other
  DIY DAC project I've done. Downside is that ASIO4ALL won't play
  through the ODAC. It may take some software fiddling to get it to work.
  I have no problem with ASIO4ALL playing with a AMB y1, y2, grubDAC
  or Alien DAC, so the ODAC is a bit different.
   
  I've been listening to the ODAC for a couple hours now. So far I'm using
  HD800's and playing mp3s CD rips, mostly 256kb and 320kb so no
  higher sample rates or bitdepth. So far nothing jumps out audibly, either
  pro or con with the sound. I'm looking forward to comparing it with my
  other DIY dacs; I have a TP buffalo, buffalo II, amb Y1, Y2, and a GrubDac
  to compare it to. Eventually I plan to install the ODAC line out jack and 
  then will be able to run it through the paces using other "higher end" amps. 
   I'm not the most golden eared listener though and have
  a difficult time telling any difference between the DAC's I have.


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## shadow419

Quote: 





bada bing said:


> I'm listening to my new ODAC that I installed this afternoon in one of my O2s.
> 
> The install is not plug and play.
> The ODAC board fits in the place of the batteries as designed.
> ...


 
   
  For the input, you can directly solder to the P1 pad through holes (Ground is the center).  There's no need to solder to the underside of the input jack on the O2.


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## Dixter

Here is the PN for the output jack...
   
  3.5mm Digikey CP-3523SJCT-ND
   
  its also being sold on the JDS Labs site...
   
  Seems the offical site for the ODAC is at diyaudio.com   then search for ODAC...   the boards are just now shipping...  
   
  JDS is also selling a housed version... so it works with any amp...  looks good...


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## livewire

Quote: 





dixter said:


> Here is the PN for the output jack...
> 
> 3.5mm Digikey CP-3523SJCT-ND
> 
> ...


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## bada bing

Quote: 





shadow419 said:


> For the input, you can directly solder to the P1 pad through holes (Ground is the center).  There's no need to solder to the underside of the input jack on the O2.


 
  If you wire directly to P1 pads, the ODAC is hard wired to the input of the amp all the time.
  If you wish to have the input switch built into the input jack socket function, i.e jack in an
  external source disconnects the ODAC, jack removed connects the internal mounted ODAC,
  then you must cut the traces and wire to pins 3 & 4 on the underside of the O2 pcb
  for L & R out of the ODAC.
   
  If you wire the ODAC directly to P1, a potential problem is if you connect an external source
  and forget  and also have the ODAC powered and playing as well. This wires the
  outputs of the two sources directly together. The two sources
  will "fight" and over draw current from one or the other with potential damage.
   
  So yeah, you can wire to P1, but I wouldn't do it unless the O2 amp is wired as a
  ODAC amp only. Murphy's law will eventually bite you otherwise.


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## MikeW

Possible problems that should be addressed asap ~
   
  Foobar Defaults to 24 bit, 44.1 (WASAPI)
   
  Windows Audio defaults to 16 bit, 44.1
   
  Windows software volume control still works. Ergo  - windows resamples to 16/44.1 by default. This is baaad mojo, and plainly audible.
   
  Solution: Change windows audio to 24 bit, 44.1, or otherwise Sync Foobar/Windows Audio. And/or find a way to bypass the windows stack completely. I have not yet tried Kernal Streaming, but can't accomplish this with WASAPI, which is a bit odd.
  
  Windows7 64 bit.
   
  i wired mine up directly to P1, but it sounds like Bada Bing's method is the correct one, i'll likely change mine, thanks for the heads up.


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## maverickronin

It's set and forget unless you actually have stuff above 44.1 since it won't resample stuff at the SR you set the shared mode to.  If you have a mix of 44.1 and 96 (the USB chip won't do 88.2) then you can just let foobar/WASAPI take care of the SR.  If you've got stuff at 88.2 then you'll need a good resampler like SoX but something like 99.9% of digital music is in 16/44 so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to most people.
   
  Also disabling the volume control would be a waste since the whole point of a 24 bit DAC chip was to allow headroom for digital volume control.  The Win7 SRC does still suck but the 32 bit FP volume doesn't hurt anything.


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## shadow419

Quote: 





bada bing said:


> If you wire directly to P1 pads, the ODAC is hard wired to the input of the amp all the time.
> If you wish to have the input switch built into the input jack socket function, i.e jack in an
> external source disconnects the ODAC, jack removed connects the internal mounted ODAC,
> then you must cut the traces and wire to pins 3 & 4 on the underside of the O2 pcb
> ...


 
  If you look at the schematic, you'll see that wiring to P1 is the same as wiring to the underside of J2.  You cut the traces if you have J2 installed in order to defeat the input mute when nothing is plugged into J2.


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## bada bing

No, wiring to P1 are the same connection as wiring to pins 2 & 5  of the switched
  jack J2. Connecting this way hard wires the the ODAC connection to the same
  traces as the external source input of J2. If you wire it that way and try to run the
  ODAC simultaneously with an external source plugged in, it will do exactly as
  I posted; the two sources outputs are hardwired together.
   
  The J1 jack socket has a two pole switch function that "breaks" upon insertion of
  a Jack and "makes" on withdrawal of a jack. Before the traces on the O2 pcb
  are cut, when the J2 switch poles "make" on jack withdrawal, the switch shorts
  the amp inputs to ground. If you wire the ODAC to P1, you must cut the traces
  to keep the ODAC outputs from being shorted to ground when no jack is plugged
  in, but P1 is wired directly to pins 2 & 5 of the jack - which are the external source
  input leads.
   
  The "correct" way to wire the ODAC is as I have post - connect to J2 pins 3 & 4
  located on the underside of the O2 PCB under J2. And cut the traces, which is required
  in any case. Wiring this way insures that there is no possibility of two sources outputs
  wired together. This isn't something I've made up, it is mentioned on Voldemort's March
  blog post about the ODAC (which is not allowed to link here). Perhaps Voldemort
  will post detailed ODAC installation soon which will clarify the details better than I'm able. 
   
_*O2 INPUT SWITCHING:* Those who only want a USB headphone DAC _
_(like the FiiO E10 or NuForce uDAC-2) can simply wire from the output _
_header of the ODAC to the P1 input header on the O2 board. But for _
_those who still want to use other sources (like an iPod, etc.) with their O2, _
_you can have your cake and eat it too. Once you cut the traces shown _
_to the right you can wire the ODAC to terminals 3 and 4 of the input jack. _
_These lead to internal switches in the jack and will connect the ODAC _
_only when nothing is plugged into the O2._


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## shadow419

Stand corrected.  I misread what you wrote and and didn't realize you were talking about wiring to pins 3 & 4.  I though you were just cutting the traces to these pins.


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## Mutombo

Eagerly awaiting the arrival of my standalone ODAC.  I wanted to be able to use it with my other amps and not just my O2.


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## MikeW

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It's set and forget unless you actually have stuff above 44.1 since it won't resample stuff at the SR you set the shared mode to.  If you have a mix of 44.1 and 96 (the USB chip won't do 88.2) then you can just let foobar/WASAPI take care of the SR.  If you've got stuff at 88.2 then you'll need a good resampler like SoX but something like 99.9% of digital music is in 16/44 so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to most people.
> 
> Also disabling the volume control would be a waste since the whole point of a 24 bit DAC chip was to allow headroom for digital volume control.  The Win7 SRC does still suck but the 32 bit FP volume doesn't hurt anything.


 
   
  The sample rate conversion is not the issue, it's the bit depth. Windows defaults to 16 bit, foobar defaults to 24 bit, so it will resample from  24/44.1 to 16/44.1 and it go's though the sucky windows SRC at that point. It's audible.


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## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





mikew said:


> The sample rate conversion is not the issue, it's the bit depth. Windows defaults to 16 bit, foobar defaults to 24 bit, so it will resample from  24/44.1 to 16/44.1 and it go's though the sucky windows SRC at that point. It's audible.


 
   
Q: My E10 is 44/16 on Windows shared mode because of your results. Should that be the same for the ODAC with Pandora, Spotify, MOG?...In the exclusive mode... should the foobar WASAPI be 16 or 24 bits resolution to play files some of which are FLAC and 96/24 WMA?
   
A: If possible, just leave the ODAC at 24 bits even playing 16 bit material.
   
  He said that online if it helps.


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## MikeW

you need to have the program you play music with aligned with the windows setting. If you use Foobar, then windows should be set the same as foobar. if you use something else, then it should bet set the same, this is if you have a very resolving setup, and are trying to achieve top sound quality, if it's just youtube video's who cares.
   
  For example, i use foobar for all my quality listening, so i want it to be the same as windows mode, they are both set to 24/44.1
  even though foobar plays back 16-bit files, I leave it set to 24 bit, as foobar just pad's with 000's. It's the windows resampler we are trying to avoid.
   
  if you set windows to 24/44.1 and then use a program to output 16 bit audio, again we will possibly see windows resampling things. Keep them aligned for critical listening.


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





mikew said:


> The sample rate conversion is not the issue, it's the bit depth. Windows defaults to 16 bit, foobar defaults to 24 bit, so it will resample from  24/44.1 to 16/44.1 and it go's though the sucky windows SRC at that point. It's audible.


 
   
  It's not SRC if the SR is the same...


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## MikeW

i guess i need to spell it out for you.
   
  Foobar spits out 24 bit, windows converts it to 16 bit. so no, it's not sample rate conversion, it's some kind of bit-depth conversion, the point is the same. windows is working it's nasty voodoo. enough to be audible.


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## litster

I just ordered an ODAC last night.  MikeW, when you say I need to set Windows to use 24-bit, that is set in the ODAC properties in device manager?  Thanks.


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





mikew said:


> i guess i need to spell it out for you.
> 
> Foobar spits out 24 bit, windows converts it to 16 bit. so no, it's not sample rate conversion,* it's some kind of bit-depth conversion*, the point is the same. windows is working it's nasty voodoo. enough to be audible.


 
   
  By padding it with zeros...


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## WiR3D

maverickronin said:


> Quote: Originally Posted by MikeW  i guess i need to spell it out for you.   Foobar spits out 24 bit, windows converts it to 16 bit. so no, it's not sample rate conversion, it's some kind of bit-depth conversion, the point is the same. windows is working it's nasty voodoo. enough to be audible.   By padding it with zeros...




No by using a lossy algorithm to drop bits. 24(foobar)->16(windows+ final output)
Ie make sure foobar and windows are set to 24bit.

Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2


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## mikeaj

Isn't the WASAPI option in foobar just WASAPI exclusive mode?  It lets you set the bit depth because it's bypassing all OS audio processing modules.  Note that the bit depth/sample rate option in the Control Panel is for shared mode.
   
  btw 24 bit -> 16 bit is truncating (with or without dithering...or is it rounding?), not zero-padding.


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## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> Isn't the WASAPI option in foobar just WASAPI exclusive mode?  It lets you set the bit depth because it's bypassing all OS audio processing modules.  Note that the bit depth/sample rate option in the Control Panel is for shared mode.


 
  Yes, that is correct. When I use WASAPI in foobar with the E10 and then open chrome and play a youtube video my laptop speakers play the audio.
   
  The exclusive mode is independent of the shared mode because of this bypass and the computer defaults to the Conexant onboard audio.


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## sphinxvc

Just ordered an O2+ODAC combo from JDS, looking forward to it.


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## sphinxvc

Anyone know where I can get some ridiculously tall isolation cones for these two (got standalone units) on the cheap?  (Just for kicks)


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> No by using a lossy algorithm to drop bits. 24(foobar)->16(windows+ final output)
> Ie make sure foobar and windows are set to 24bit.
> Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2


 
   
  Wait.  That's what he's talking about?  Playing from foobar and outputting 24 bit from foobar when shared mode is set at 16?
   
  Ok, that's not padding but it still doesn't matter what Win7 is set to because you can't even set the output bit depth with the DS output which goes through the mixer.  AFIK you can only set it through foobar with WASAPI output (ASIO is set by the driver, IDK about KS) and foobar uses WASAPI exclusive which will bypass the mixer and sets the device to whatever sample rate your file is and whatever bit depth you set in foobar.
   
  The bottom line is that if you use WASAPI exclusive mode like foobar's WASAPI plug in the music will never go though the windows mixer so it doesn't matter what the other settings are.  That's probably why I misunderstood what MikeW was saying.
   
  Lets talk a little more about bit depth and the windows mixer while we're at it.  The Win7 runs internally at 32 bit FP.  A program can stream data to the mixer at any any bit depth up to that and any SR up to (I think) 192khz.  It then mixes and resamples the streams as necessary to output the bit depth and SR specified for shared mode.  Resampling can be messy and introduce audible artifacts.  The windows resampling algorithms are especially suspect because they have to be very CPU efficient.
   
  Distortion is very easy to hear in pure tones and if I set my sine wave generator program to the wrong sample rate the mixer's SRC introduces clearly audible distortion.  I can't say that I've noticed it from other sounds that go though the mixer but since I do my "serious" listening though foobar/WASAPI that mostly just leaves games, youtube, and system sounds which should mostly match up with my usual 44.1khz shared mode SR.  In any case if you know that the distortion exists it's best avoided.
   
  On to bit depth.  The mixer runs at 32 bit FP for precision in mixing and volume control.  In fact if you use the DS output foobar will output a 32bit FP stream.  If you're not using the volume control or any DSPs it will pad the bit stream with zeros.  Anything sent to the mixer at less than 32 bits will be padded as well.  In fact if there are no streams to mix, the windows volume is at 100%, and the shared mode SR and bit depth match what you're playing, then windows will give you bit perfect playback without any special output mode like WASAPI or something.  It will pad the word length with zeros, do no processing, and then truncate the extra zeros before sending the signal off to the device.
   
  If you send a 24 bit signal to the mixer when shared mode is set to 16 bit it will just chop off those last 8 bits before sending it on to the device but that's not really all that bad.  Bit depth only determines the dynamic range and noise floor.  Nothing uses all of 16 bit's 96dB of dynamic range and you need to listen very loudly in a very quiet place to expose the signal's noise floor.  Basically, 99% of the time truncating 24 bits to 16 doesn't change anything because you couldn't hear the 16 bit noise floor to begin with.  At least if you're not using a digital volume control.  That's why the ODAC is 24 bit device.  It gives you headroom to lower the volume in either windows or your media player without raising the noise floor to an audible level.
   
  If you don't have any hi-rez recordings then you can just set the ODAC's shared mode to 24/44.1 and not worry, even if you like the idea of bit perfect, because if you don't use the volume control it will be bit perfect whenever two things aren't playing once.  If you're not a purist, the 24 bit word length lets you use the volume control without raising the noise floor to audible levels.  If you want to use WASAPI exclusive mode to block system sounds and what not then set it to 24 bit as well.  WASAPI will error out if you try to play a sample rate (or bit depth) the device doesn't support (like 88.2 for the ODAC) since there are no provisions for SRC.  If you have such recordings you'll need to set up some kind of conditional resampler in your player or just make a separate copy and resample them.
   
  That last part will be a pain for some people and probably disqualify the ODAC from their consideration but using a different USB chip that supported 88.2 would have raised the price for everyone even though 88.2 is a very uncommon format in the big picture.


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## Kayk

Can we get some more impressions of this thing? Also, a picture of the unit since all I can find on the web are renders. Finally, does this allow for system-wide volume control on OS X?
   
  I'm also interested in a comparison between the ODAC and the HRT MSII, being at the same price range I'm considering getting one or the other.


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## micmacmo

kayk said:


> Can we get some more impressions of this thing? Also, a picture of the unit since all I can find on the web are renders. Finally, does this allow for system-wide volume control on OS X?




I can't offer much in the way of impressions because my only other DAC is a boutique unit, a HotAudio DAC-Wow, that most people have never heard so comparisons are moot. And I haven't done extensive listening either. But the detail is very good. 

The designer has plenty of recent images on his blog. Are you looking for something particular? If so, I'll try to help.

I'm surprised, but yes, it allows for system-wide volume control. With my SP/DIF HotAudio DAC, it was gone and I had to control volume via the amp or the individual apps.


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## RonO

Quote: 





kayk said:


> Can we get some more impressions of this thing? Also, a picture of the unit since all I can find on the web are renders. Finally, does this allow for system-wide volume control on OS X?
> 
> I'm also interested in a comparison between the ODAC and the HRT MSII, being at the same price range I'm considering getting one or the other.


 
  My $.02, compared to my Audio-gd Fun (as a DAC) I find the ODAC to be about the same in performance, but I do like it better.  In my setup, the ODAC seems to have more forward low frequencies, and may be a little more detailed.  I doubt I could A/B the difference, they both sound good to me. I'm very impressed by the ODAC, I got the PCB module and put it in an old IPOD box (the box an IPOD touch comes inside).  I also like that the ODAC is 100% usb, I can leave the Fun turned off, and just have my Bottlehead powered on.  I was always forgetting to turn the DAC off when I was done...


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## wdahm519

To me the ODAC was better than my TPA Opus DAC.  It had better extension in the low end and high end, and had more "low end punch".  The bass seemed just a bit tighter and nicer with my EHHA Rev A and HE-500's.  I'm very happy with it.
   
  I put the ODAC in a standalone case.  Here's what it looks like:


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## alphaphoenix

Long shot request, but has anybody here also own or owned the Pico DAC, and if so, care to briefly compare it to the ODAC?  Thanks.


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## wdahm519

I think the Pico's WM8740 is not as good as the Sabre ESS ES9023 chip personally.  Also, if you were to truly believe the ODAC vs DAC PRE1 comparison (that they're equal in performance), a $1600 retail DAC would _probably_ be better than a $300 retail DAC.
   
  I'm not saying that as evidence, I'm just comparing what I know (which is very little) about the performance of the two.  You can draw your own conclusions from that evidence, and my opinions.


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## alphaphoenix

Apologies OP for the slight derail.  Can I assume that your opinion is currently only based on published specs, not first hand ownership and A/B comparison between the two.  If so, thanks, but I'll wait on someone who has.


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## wdahm519

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> Apologies OP for the slight derail.  Can I assume that your opinion is currently only based on published specs, not first hand ownership and A/B comparison between the two.  If so, thanks, but I'll wait on someone who has.


 

 Well, yes and no.  My Opus DAC has a Wolfson WM8741 chip, which is very close to the WM8740 chip (dual mono vs. stereo) so I do have first hand experience with the chips themselves.  However, the chip doesn't "make" the DAC, because the Pico DAC will sound different than the Opus DAC (assuming your system can resolve well enough the difference between the DAC's).  That being said, I'm not just talking numbers out of my ass. 
   
  Because of the fact that the ODAC was just released, combined with the number of owners who actually have a Pico DAC, the chances that you're going to find someone that has both and is willing to write up a comparison for you in this thread (or see the thread) is low, you may want to heed my opinions. 
   
  However, its up to you.


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## scoopbb

i just received my odac in a jds standalone case. its slightly longer than the o2 which kind of sucks since you cant stack em but in terms of sound...
   
  super impressed. extremely revealing. listening to fleetwood mac rumors on my magnum v4 in cocobolo build, its simply crystal clear. i dont want to get into fufu terminology but the instruments completely sparkle. coming from the e10 its definitely brighter but in reality it just makes the e10 dac section sound like muddled crap. this thing is significantly louder too. i cant crank the o2 anywhere near as far as i used to get the same volume output.
   
  tomorrow when i have more time ill pair it with the hd650 since i have a real good feeling they will play very well together. 
   
  for the price, this thing is amazing.


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## wdahm519

Quote: 





scoopbb said:


> makes the e10 dac section sound like muddled crap.


 
   
  Nice.


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## micmacmo

scoopbb said:


> i just received my odac in a jds standalone case. its slightly longer than the o2 which kind of sucks since you cant stack em but in terms of sound...




That's one of the nice things about Audio Poutine's approach. He's selling the ODAC with a B2-080 enclosure and bare O2 board (as the mount) as his standalone solution, so it stacks nicely with the O2. 

That also means that if you ever decide to retrofit your O2 with the ODAC in the same enclosure, you'll have the spare board and enclosure to make another O2. Clever, me thinks.


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## scoopbb

first thing i did today when getting up was grabbing my hd650s and plugging them into the odac/o2 combo. definitely perfect marriage. i tend to stay away from tube amps for many various reasons so i dont have crazy rigs that cost thousands of dollars, but at this point im pretty sure i wont be upgrading anything for the foreseeable future. might write a review in the future, at the moment im feeling too lazy. gonna try the magnums with ttvj flats next.


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## scoopbb

Quote: 





micmacmo said:


> That's one of the nice things about Audio Poutine's approach. He's selling the ODAC with a B2-080 enclosure and bare O2 board (as the mount) as his standalone solution, so it stacks nicely with the O2.
> That also means that if you ever decide to retrofit your O2 with the ODAC in the same enclosure, you'll have the spare board and enclosure to make another O2. Clever, me thinks.


 
  that would have been cool. if the jds enclosure was an inch shorter it would also at least fit on top of the o2.


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## fenderf4i

I just put together my ODAC from Audio Poutine. My first "DIY" project, and it went together without a hitch. I installed RCA outs on it. Coming from the E10 as a DAC previously, and for the money, I could not be happier.


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## MikeW

if foobar is runing in exclusive mode when set to WASAPI, 24 BIT, then why does the windows volume control work? this should not do anything. It still works, that means it's still going though the windows mixer. Foobar pad's zero's it's no big deal going from 16 to 24, but I don't think windows does that, why would you want another layer of conversion?


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





mikew said:


> if foobar is runing in exclusive mode when set to WASAPI, 24 BIT, then why does the windows volume control work? this should not do anything. It still works, that means it's still going though the windows mixer. Foobar pad's zero's it's no big deal going from 16 to 24, but I don't think windows does that, why would you want another layer of conversion?


 
   
  Did I misunderstand you again?  Sorry about that.
   
  I don't know for sure since I didn't program the thing, but I'm about 99% certain the endpoint device volume control works with WASAPI exclusive mode is because it's using a volume control on the TE7022L interface chip itself.  Microsoft seems to take great please in making the audio stack as convoluted and opaque as possible but as far as I can tell the endpoint device volume control will only work in exclusive mode if the device has it's own volume control built into the hardware.
   
  You can confirm that foobar is actually using WASAPI and not going through SRC in windows by just setting foobar's "Resampler (PPHS)" DSP to an SR that the ODAC doesn't support like 88.2 and see the error when you try to play something.  No other programs will be able to play through the ODAC either so it must be in exclusive mode.  If you open the volume mixer you can see that the endpoint device volume will work while Windows' volume for foobar (not the volume in foobar) doesn't.


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## mmayer167

My stand-alone unit got here today from JDS. 
   
  Build wise, this is an excellent little piece of gear. Granted there is not much to it, but it really is solid. 
   
  Sound wise, it reminds me of the bifrost, which I cant directly compare to so take that with a grain. It really takes a few strides above the line out of the D6 DAC. Better separation and clean refined bass presence. Seems to do exactly what it was designed to. I am very happy. 
   
  Those still waiting, I think you'll like it 
   
  -M


----------



## litster

mmayer, thanks for your post.  When did you order your ODAC?  Thanks.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





kayk said:


> Can we get some more impressions of this thing? <snip>
> 
> I'm also interested in a comparison between the ODAC and the HRT MSII, being at the same price range I'm considering getting one or the other.


 
  I have had both the HRT MSII and the MSII+ for some time now, and enjoyed listening to both.
  IMO the Odac wins, hands down.
   
  Brief impressions - comparing it to the Odac, the MSII has a smaller soundstage, some etch in the upper registers and a bit of congestion
  regarding instrument separation especially during "wall of sound" musical passages. It does render a good overall sound for a cheap DAC.
   
  The MSII+ seemed to have cleaner treble than the MSII, wider soundstage, excellent separation.
  What I didnt like was the somewhat recessed upper and mid registers that seemed to come at the expense of a wider soundstage.
   
  Odac - wider soundstage, on par with the MSII+, no discernable treble etch, better voice reproduction, excellent instrument separation and air.
  Bass reproduction seems to be excellent, as much as is possible with a STAX system.


----------



## SanjiWatsuki

Just got my standalone ODAC in the mail.
  I am upgrading from a Creative X-Fi Go!
  Noticeable differences: I notice the lower sound floor. Detail extraction is better on the ODAC. I felt like the bass was a tick better as well -- it seemed slightly more full. I didn't notice a soundstage difference. My initial impression was that vocals were slightly more lush, but it was incredibly subtle and may just be my brain expecting things to be better.
   
  The noise floor drop, however, is lovely. It's the final touch on my T20RPs to get the most out of them.


----------



## mmayer167

I ordered maybe a month ago.?

M


----------



## wdahm519

Quote: 





sanjiwatsuki said:


> Just got my standalone ODAC in the mail.
> I am upgrading from a Creative X-Fi Go!
> Noticeable differences: I notice the lower sound floor. Detail extraction is better on the ODAC. I felt like the bass was a tick better as well -- it seemed slightly more full. I didn't notice a soundstage difference. My initial impression was that vocals were slightly more lush, but it was incredibly subtle and may just be my brain expecting things to be better.
> 
> The noise floor drop, however, is lovely. It's the final touch on my T20RPs to get the most out of them.


 
   
  How much the DAC affects the rest of your system is really dependent on what headphones/amp you use with it.  However, what you noticed, I also noticed in some ways- so that's good.


----------



## litster

mmayer167 said:


> I ordered maybe a month ago.?
> M




Thanks. I just ordered last week. I guess I have to wait longer.


----------



## Mutombo

Curious for those who ordered from JDS Labs.  Are you getting a shipping confirmation when it goes out, or is the package just arriving on your doorstep?  I haven't heard anything yet (ordered May 15).


----------



## wdahm519

I got shipping confirmation, but I preordered back in April or whenever it first popped up.


----------



## mac336

If anyone would be willing to build me an ODAC with RCA outs give me a PM


----------



## jono454

Safe to say that the ODAC is an improvement over a Fiio E17 (DAC only)?


----------



## wdahm519

That is probably a safe assumption, yes.  However, its only $100, so might as well try and if you can't tell a discernable difference sell it to someone else who wants it.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





mutombo said:


> Curious for those who ordered from JDS Labs.  Are you getting a shipping confirmation when it goes out, or is the package just arriving on your doorstep?  I haven't heard anything yet (ordered May 15).


 
   
  FWIW, I ordered on the 30th and was told mine would be going out toward the end of this week when I called to check up.
   
  This is for a o2/odac in the same case.


----------



## rnconync

Quote: 





mutombo said:


> Curious for those who ordered from JDS Labs.  Are you getting a shipping confirmation when it goes out, or is the package just arriving on your doorstep?  I haven't heard anything yet (ordered May 15).


 
   


 I just ordered one yesterday and received shipment confirmation of mine today....mine was just the board so I can add it to my existing O2


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





rnconync said:


> I just ordered one yesterday and received shipment confirmation of mine today....mine was just the board so I can add it to my existing O2


 
   
  I do believe the holdup is the casework, as John offered to send me an o2/odac with the caveat of having smudged printing.


----------



## alphaphoenix

Just pulled the trigger on one from Audio Poutine.  I wanted the chassis to match the same width dimension and faceplate color as my desktop O2.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





wdahm519 said:


> That is probably a safe assumption, yes.  However, its only $100, so might as well try and if you can't tell a discernable difference sell it to someone else who wants it.


 
  I get the impression from this thread that the ODAC is better than the HRT MSII and maybe on par with the HRT MSII+ and i've also read that the HRT MSII is an improvement over the Fiio E17 so i guess my ideal upgrade would be the ODAC. Too bad i didn't get to test it out =/ the guy who runs Audio Poutine lives in my area and he had a DIY meet that i couldn't goto =(


----------



## fenderf4i

The noise floor is awesome on it. My E10 had a fair bit of USB noise. None with the ODAC.


----------



## jacknight

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> The noise floor is awesome on it. My E10 had a fair bit of USB noise. None with the ODAC.


 
  can you give me some comparison between fiio e10 and odac?


----------



## proton007

Does anyone know what is the lead time for an assembled standalone ODAC from JDS Labs? While the boards are in production, has JDS started shipping it with the case?


----------



## scoopbb

yes, i received mine with the standalone case a few days ago


----------



## fenderf4i

jacknight said:


> can you give me some comparison between fiio e10 and odac?




The only thing I can say for sure without blind testing etc is that the USB noise I heard on the E10 is not there with the ODAC. Otherwise, I can just say it sounds fantastic.


----------



## daigo

Couldn't quite tell from the pictures on the JDS labs site, but is the standalone ODAC built with 1/4" or 1/8" output?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





daigo said:


> Couldn't quite tell from the pictures on the JDS labs site, but is the standalone ODAC built with 1/4" or 1/8" output?


 
   
  It's 1/8".


----------



## stubzor

Quote: 





scoopbb said:


> yes, i received mine with the standalone case a few days ago


 
  You mind posting a pic of it? Im curious as to what it looks like, since the only picture available is a 3d rendering.


----------



## Argybargy

I've got about 40 hours on mine. Some brief, preliminary impressions: detailed, black background, neutral, tight bass.
I've owned the HRT MSii and the MSii+ (2nd rounded version). The Odac is definitely better than the MSii and as good or better than the MSii+. 

A/Bing the two I couldn't tell them easily apart, probably could not in a blind test. Given this I sold my MSii+.

The odac has my vote for the best bang for your buck in a usb dac.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





scoopbb said:


> yes, i received mine with the standalone case a few days ago


 
  Maybe you ordered early?
  I ordered on the 3rd, haven't received any shipping info yet. I think they'll ship in ordering sequence.


----------



## scoopbb

sure. not too much lighting in my room but heres the best i could capture
   


   
  Quote: 





stubzor said:


> You mind posting a pic of it? Im curious as to what it looks like, since the only picture available is a 3d rendering.


----------



## stubzor

Thanks, that pictures perfect. I just wanted to get a general size estimate.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





scoopbb said:


> sure. not too much lighting in my room but heres the best i could capture


 
   
  What?!?, why does the ODAC case ended up longer than the O2?
  It should have been like half that size since the ODAC board is much smaller than the O2 board.
   
Below is an image of the ODAC standalone prototype posted over at DIYaudio forum:

   
  The case you've got looks way too long.


----------



## lukeahale

JDSLabs is using the case for their c421 amp because it just happens to be the right size (other than length).  I believe they may be eventually offering a smaller version at some point, but I am sure this helped them to keep the cost lower for the early batches of them, either that or they couldn't get a custom one created/ordered in time or in enough quantity to cover the preorders.  They say they are going to talk about this in a future blog post, so really the second sentence is just my logical conjecture.


----------



## daigo

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It's 1/8".


 
  Thanks for the reply.  I guess I'll have to build a short 1/8" to RCA cable to use it then.


----------



## sphinxvc

That is most definitely not the case they have advertised on the website.  Like someone else said, it's the C421 case.  =/


----------



## scoopbb

yeah, definitely not the size i wanted but what can you do =/


----------



## Argybargy




----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





scoopbb said:


> yeah, definitely not the size i wanted but what can you do =/


 
  Once I get mine I plan to open it up and see how difficult it will be to cut it down to size... with a Dremel, a steady hand, and perhaps a clever method of reattaching the back plate, should be doable


----------



## alphaphoenix

This is why I went with Audio Poutine.  I get the same chassis as the O2 plus RCA inputs in additional to the 1/8 input, but pretty much the same price.  You get the streamline stacked look.  Plus you get an O2 board that you can build later should you decide to remove and relocate just the ODAC and install it in the up and coming ODA.
   
  Hats off to Joe for his well executed ODAC production.


----------



## rnconync

Just got my ODAC and installed it in my O2 and it sounds Incredible!  I was using the DAC in my fiio E7 via a dock adapter and my O2 for my amp, now I am strictly using the O2/ODAC combo and I think I will be set for quite a long time now! Also,  this is a HUGE improvement over my E7. I have only been listening for about 2 hours now, but it's almost like listening to a lot of the songs for the first time again...There is more clarity, soundstage, smoothness, everything! Maybe not such a difference for some of you who have been on higher quality DAC's already, but I am really satisfied for my $100


----------



## jacknight

why the case is so expensive 50US$,in my country i can built the case with acrylic for 1/10 or with wood case for 1/5 price


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> I've got about 40 hours on mine. Some brief, preliminary impressions: detailed, black background, neutral, tight bass.
> I've owned the HRT MSii and the MSii+ (2nd rounded version). The Odac is definitely better than the MSii and as good or better than the MSii+.
> A/Bing the two I couldn't tell them easily apart, probably could not in a blind test. Given this I sold my MSii+.
> The odac has my vote for the best bang for your buck in a usb dac.


 
  That's quite a statement hahah considering the ODAC is roughly $100-$150 and the MSii+ is $349+
   
  Can't wait to get my hands on one.


----------



## Anaxilus

Mine's incoming as well.


----------



## Voodoo002

Hi guys,
  Just to let you know we're running a charity raffle to *win an ODAC* and other gear courtsey of JDS labs:
   
http://www.charitygiving.co.uk/jdslabscharityraffle
   
  It's only £2 per entry and Nick at JDS will be picking the lucky winner.
   
  It *closes this Sunday 10th June* so hurry


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> That is most definitely not the case they have advertised on the website.  Like someone else said, it's the C421 case.  =/


 
   
  It is indeed the case shown on our site; the rendering is an exact model of the c421 case (same CAD model provided to our manufacturers). We also announced that we're using the c421 case well before the preorder went live.
   


lukeahale said:


> JDSLabs is using the case for their c421 amp because it just happens to be the right size (other than length).  I believe they may be eventually offering a smaller version at some point, but I am sure this helped them to keep the cost lower for the early batches of them, either that or they couldn't get a custom one created/ordered in time or in enough quantity to cover the preorders.  They say they are going to talk about this in a future blog post, so really the second sentence is just my logical conjecture.


 
   
  ^^^ Basically correct. It takes almost 3 months to produce a custom length case with a nice finish. You can do it faster, but quality always suffers, and I'm not a fan of low quality parts.
   
  By the time the ODAC PCB was finished, we had only 4 weeks to judge demand and choose enclosures. YoyoDyne Consulting suggested that a standardized case for ODAC would benefit the entire DIY community. So we coordinated demand with all ODAC builders. The entire prototype discussion has been publicly posted, along with our reasoning for using the c421 case in the first batch: It's available now, and it looks great. Cost doesn't change much from one case to another...
   
  Exact length ODAC cases will be ready in mid-July. The finished parts will be distributed to other builders and sold as individual 'DIY' items in our store. Believe me, I wish production for this stuff wasn't so slow...
   
  If you guys want Standalone ODAC's in the O2 "B2-080" case, we can do that now. But the Standalone ODAC in the c421 case is a nicer looking product. We'll get pictures up this week.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> It is indeed the case shown on our site; the rendering is an exact model of the c421 case (same CAD model provided to our manufacturers). We also announced that we're using the c421 case well before the preorder went live.


 
   
  My mistake then, John.  I guess it just looks different.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> My mistake then, John.  I guess it just looks different.


 
   
  Hey, no problem. If a picture is deceiving, then it needs to be changed.
   
  The remaining shipment of ODAC endplates arrives Tuesday. Fresh pictures will finally be posted after we ship out the remaining preorders.


----------



## pekingduck

Does the ODAC work with the iPad via the CCK?


----------



## micmacmo

Quote: 





pekingduck said:


> Does the ODAC work with the iPad via the CCK?


 
  Joe at Audio Poutine got the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK) to work with his iPad...with caveats. He's got a video of what he did on his Facebook page. (You don't need a facebook account or be logged in to watch the video.) The actual demo of the CCK starts at 1:54.
   
  EDIT: spell out CCK and include video timestamp


----------



## NoMatterWhat

If I order the ODAC version with RCA, will it have balanced output so I can connect it balanced to my AMP?
  There is an option of RCA on the http://www.headnhifi.com site, and I don't know if it is balanced or not .
  It is really important for me, so I'm asking for an answer.


----------



## alphaphoenix

No. It's just your regular RCA left/right separate channel output.


----------



## NoMatterWhat

So it feels like I will be able to connect this ODAC with RCA Output with my La Figaro 336c, which has left and right input. Am I right?
  I just posted it in a wrong way. Im not sure whether I will need balanced or unbalanced but I need 2 chinces plugged into my AMP La Figaro 336c, which has left and right channel, and so I need the same in the output of DAC and then I will connect those with RCA cable. I think It's the way to go.


----------



## alphaphoenix

Yes.  That is the correct chain sequence between the two devices.


----------



## sluker

Just ordered mine


----------



## rnconync

After having the ODAC O2 combo for a few more days, I am still loving it, it definitely beats out my Fiio E7 by far and I think I will happy with the combo for quite a long time. I ended up mounting my ODAC in the larger B3-080 case with my O2 that I built so that I can still use my batteries. Not having to lug the AC adapter back and forth to work is a plus and I wanted to be able to use both in the same box without losing battery power! It works great and I'm very happy with it!
  Here are a few pictures on my setup.


----------



## alphaphoenix

I received my ODAC today.  Let's just say that I'm glad I sold the Pico DAC.  Too bad I sold it before receiving the ODAC to perform a proper A/B comparison,but right off the bat, it's more detailed and clearer - all at 1/2 the price of the Pico.  There were some tracks that didn't sound "right" when using the Pico, not so with the ODAC.  The sound is much more fluid from the start and end of the chain.
   
  The ODAC is a true bargain.


----------



## maverickronin

Surprisingly, almost all the impressions seem pretty positive so far.  I figured they're be more backlash.
   
  I really enjoy mine but I've never felt comfortable trying to describe differences between most DACs or amps.


----------



## alphaphoenix

I think where the backlash lies is when a comparison is posted between the ODAC and say a $500+ commercial selling DAC, and the decision favors the ODAC.  It's no secret that a DIY product usually out performs the commercial counterparts within a certain price category.  If there was a review where the ODAC subjectively out performed or was on par with a $1-2K DAC, I don't think it would ever be disclosed.  When I owned the O2, I thought it met one of its objective by sounding transparent, but I felt it lacked the dynamics that my TTVJ FET-A amp has no problem providing.  There's a fine line where portable/transportable performance just cannot keep up with a desktop; of course, there are exceptions like the Lisa.
   
  Thing is, it's easy for the ODAC to sell for $300 if a custom, commercial grade chassis is made for it like the one used in my previously owned Pico DAC.


----------



## wullymc

Got mine from JDS today...and ....I like it!...okay I love it.  I sounds excellent more revealing than I have heard from my other DAC.  Very happy customer.


----------



## mac336

Got mine in today.  Been comparing it to the bifrost using the HE-500 and lyr. 
   
   
  The bifrost seemed to have slightly more detail, slightly better separation and extension.....slightly.
   
   
  I no longer have my NFB-12, but when I compared the NFB 12 DAC section (using the lyr as amp) to the bifrost, there was an obvious improvement upon first A-B comparison.  This was not the case with the ODAC which speaks to how good it sounds.
   
  Keep in mind that these weren't blind comparisons, but in my mind I did think the bifrost sounded a little bit better, but I thought the ODAC came suprisingly close. 
   
   
   
  Update:
   
  I have done more A/B comparisons between the ODAC and bifrost and I honestly can't definitively say that the bifrost is any better than the ODAC.  They are pretty much on par with each other.  I keep thinking that I'm hearing a minute improvement in bass extension and a slight "airyness" with the bifrost, but I'm not sure.


----------



## jono454

Anyone have the ODAC as well as the Fiio E17....would be great to see some comparisons =)


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Anyone have the ODAC as well as the Fiio E17....would be great to see some comparisons =)


 
   
  I have an E17 currently and an O2/ODAC combo on order, John from JDS indicates it should ship this week.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I have an E17 currently and an O2/ODAC combo on order, John from JDS indicates it should ship this week.


 
  Awesome...it'd be great if you could post some impressions and which one you think is better.


----------



## wdahm519

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> I received my ODAC today.  Let's just say that I'm glad I sold the Pico DAC.  Too bad I sold it before receiving the ODAC to perform a proper A/B comparison,but right off the bat, it's more detailed and clearer - all at 1/2 the price of the Pico.  There were some tracks that didn't sound "right" when using the Pico, not so with the ODAC.  The sound is much more fluid from the start and end of the chain.
> 
> The ODAC is a true bargain.


 
   
  And to think you tried to ignore my advice...


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Awesome...it'd be great if you could post some impressions and which one you think is better.


 
   
  Yeah no prob, just got shipping confirmation so it will probably be here by Friday.
   
  FWIW, I'll be using a newer set of Thunderpants.


----------



## xzobinx

I think I should order from audiopoutine too. I prefer the c421 case of jdlabs but I hate the wired RCA 
  Wonder If they can make the rca fixed in case like audiopoutine 
   Quote:


alphaphoenix said:


> I received my ODAC today.  Let's just say that I'm glad I sold the Pico DAC.  Too bad I sold it before receiving the ODAC to perform a proper A/B comparison,but right off the bat, it's more detailed and clearer - all at 1/2 the price of the Pico.  There were some tracks that didn't sound "right" when using the Pico, not so with the ODAC.  The sound is much more fluid from the start and end of the chain.
> 
> The ODAC is a true bargain.


----------



## rnconync

Nobody else with an ODAC and opinions? I am interested in hearing what others think also!


----------



## proton007

Lots of users have yet to get their odac unit, so you might have to wait for a while.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





xzobinx said:


> I think I should order from audiopoutine too. I prefer the c421 case of jdlabs but I hate the wired RCA
> Wonder If they can make the rca fixed in case like audiopoutine


 
   
  What?  I thought the RCA was an option not standard.  Is this the reason they aren't showing a full picture?


----------



## micmacmo

anaxilus said:


> What?  I thought the RCA was an option not standard.  Is this the reason they aren't showing a full picture?




The ODAC board ships only with the USB input mounted. What output is installed and what enclosure is used are up to the supplier and/or end user. JDS Labs looks like they're supplying their pre-assembled ODACs with a 3.5 mm jack for the output. Audio Poutine has two options: a 3.5 mm jack alone or a 3.5 mm jack and two RCA jacks, but is using a more generic enclosure. I'm pretty sure you could ask Joe to configure it with RCA jacks alone, but I doubt it would result in much of a cost savings.


----------



## oopeteroo

Bought a Odac amp/dac combo build in.
   
  should i buy HD650, HD598 or K601 for it ?
   
  listening mainly to cpop, jpop, kpop, ballad, female voice.
  using my laptop.
   
  i want the best sound for the genre and out of my odac.
   
  and one other thing. How do i set it up to my laptop ?
  there is usb to my laptop. should i just use the out to headphones ?
  what about input ?
  can i use O2 or the Dac seperately ?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





oopeteroo said:


> Bought a Odac amp/dac combo build in.
> 
> should i buy HD650, HD598 or K601 for it ?
> 
> ...


 
  I'm guessing here, but the AKG is probably the best out of those listed, just going by house sound.
   
  laptop-> USB to ODAC -> jack on O2 (NOT ODAC) -> Headphones


----------



## willmax

I should be getting an ODAC by next week and will also be buying an pair of Active Studio Monitors KRK Rokit 5 to use with my desktop computer. Do you guys know if the ODAC will work well with these speakers? Alternatively I'm thinking of connecting it to my CEntrance DACport. I'll be using the ODAC as a standalone, will I be able to control the volume through the windows system? Thanks.


----------



## Dixter

Yesterday I put together two of the O2/ODAC setups together... 
    
  My biggest complaint?   Going to HDTracks and spending $$$ money on FLAC songs so I can hear this sweet thing in all its glory...    
   
  The next complaint...  can't take the phones off and loosing too much sleep     and I can't seem to get the smile off my face...
   
  I installed Foobar2000 with the WASAPI component ( bypasses the windows stackup ) and got it all dial'd in...   those FLAC songs are to die for...
   
  The O2/ODAC setup is great....   absolutely great...   I'm surprised at how much output the O2 has with the ODAC installed.. it runs my Beyer 880/600 phones much better now.. ( stock gains )
   
  Also noticed the bass being much better on my HD800 phones too...   
   
  this setup is hard to beat for the price... and it sounds so great
   
  I also wired the O2 so the front input switches between the front input or the ODAC...   that way I can use it for the laptop/desktop computer or the Iphone/Ipad/Ipod


----------



## Raines

must have one


----------



## paradoxper

More impressions people!


----------



## rnconync

Quote: 





dixter said:


> Yesterday I put together two of the O2/ODAC setups together...
> 
> My biggest complaint?   Going to HDTracks and spending $$$ money on FLAC songs so I can hear this sweet thing in all its glory...
> 
> ...


 
  Haha...glad to hear you like it, yeah, I find myself looking for even more flac tracks now that I have the ODAC. I just picked up the Dr. Chesky album that was on the home page for head-fi the other day. It's got some good stuff, my favorite track on there is the Mozart Ave Verum track, it sounds pretty nice...although some of tracks seem to have a lot of background noise which kind of sucks...but it's not a bad CD. I wired up mine the same way, that way the O2 can still be used outside of that ODAC too...makes fora nice combo.


----------



## rnconync

Quote: 





willmax said:


> I should be getting an ODAC by next week and will also be buying an pair of Active Studio Monitors KRK Rokit 5 to use with my desktop computer. Do you guys know if the ODAC will work well with these speakers? Alternatively I'm thinking of connecting it to my CEntrance DACport. I'll be using the ODAC as a standalone, will I be able to control the volume through the windows system? Thanks.


 
  I am very interested in hearing how you think the Centrance DACport compares to the ODAC once you get yours. I have always heard about how good the Centrance products were, I jsut couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money.


----------



## rnconync

Quote: 





raines said:


> must have one


 
  It's only a short click away at JDS labs  hahaha...I was debating about getting it at first, but have no regrets whatsoever about getting it...


----------



## oopeteroo

which one of these headphone will work best with odac/amp comb ? for the genre i listening ?
   
  listening mainly to cpop, jpop, kpop, ballad, female voice.
  using my laptop.
   
  headphones: hd650, hd598 and K601
   
  i want the best sound for the genre and out of my odac.
   
  if i understand i well the back is the usb to my laptop. so i just need to set the headphones in output ?
  what are input for ? mp3 player ?
   
  and can i use dac or amp seperatly ? so i can combinat other dac or amps ?


----------



## rnconync

Quote: 





oopeteroo said:


> which one of these headphone will work best with odac/amp comb ? for the genre i listening ?
> 
> listening mainly to cpop, jpop, kpop, ballad, female voice.
> using my laptop.
> ...


 
  Don't know much what to suggest for the headphones, they can be so personal, mostly read around and see what you might like, buy them and if you don't like them, sell them and get something else...I am on my third pair at the moment trying to figure out the one for me.
   
  The ODAC will only work with an AMP, it will not power headphones on it's own and it needs to be paired with an amp. If you order the standalone DAC, you can use it with whatever amplifier you want, I would recommend the O2/ODAC combo myself, but that's because it's what I have and like.
   
  The DAC has USB input only (usually from a PC via mini USB cable), if it is in combination with the O2, you use the headphone out on the O2 amp for listening, there is also a 1/8" input on the O2 that when used (with something such as an ipod, or possibly another external DAC if you really wanted) it allows you to use the AMP portion of the O2/ODAC combo. The DAC only works when plugged in via USB


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





oopeteroo said:


> which one of these headphone will work best with odac/amp comb ? for the genre i listening ?
> 
> listening mainly to cpop, jpop, kpop, ballad, female voice.
> using my laptop.
> ...


 
   
  Not that it has much to do with the DAC or amp but I'd take the HD650 for female vocals over the K601.  The K601 has a little more neutral frequency response but the HD650 is close enough and doesn't have other problems the K601 has like driver ringing and higher levels of harmonic distortion. I haven't heard the HD598.
   
  What combination of O2 and ODAC are you getting?  If you get them in the same enclosure you can't run the O2 from batteries.  The O2 will play from the DAC by default and normal 3.5mm input will mute the DAC when plugged in.  You can get the ODAC in a separate enclosure too.  That way you can run the O2 from batteries and use the ODAC with other amps.


----------



## oopeteroo

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Not that it has much to do with the DAC or amp but I'd take the HD650 for female vocals over the K601.  The K601 has a little more neutral frequency response but the HD650 is close enough and doesn't have other problems the K601 has like driver ringing and higher levels of harmonic distortion. I haven't heard the HD598.
> 
> What combination of O2 and ODAC are you getting?  If you get them in the same enclosure you can't run the O2 from batteries.  The O2 will play from the DAC by default and normal 3.5mm input will mute the DAC when plugged in.  You can get the ODAC in a separate enclosure too.  That way you can run the O2 from batteries and use the ODAC with other amps.


 
   
  i got the odac and o2 in the same box.
  hmm gonna test it with hd650


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





dixter said:


> Yesterday I put together two of the O2/ODAC setups together...
> 
> My biggest complaint?   Going to HDTracks and spending $$$ money on FLAC songs so I can hear this sweet thing in all its glory...
> 
> ...


 
  I'm surprised the O2/ODAC combo can power your HD800s as i've heard their very picky with amp/dac


----------



## HydronQc

AudioPoutine Odac in the mail. Thanks Joe


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Awesome...it'd be great if you could post some impressions and which one you think is better.


 
   
  So got it in.  I had high hopes and it meets them, fantastic sound.  With my newer build Thunderpants I'm getting solid dynamics, extension, detail, clarity.  The E17 is what I'd call a bit euphonic in the mids and I needed to put a +2 or +4 on the bass on certain songs, don't feel the need for it with this which was my biggest worry.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





rnconync said:


> I am very interested in hearing how you think the Centrance DACport compares to the ODAC once you get yours. I have always heard about how good the Centrance products were, I jsut couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money.


 
   
  You would need to hear it w/ the DACPort LX.  The amp section in the DACPort gimps it noticeably, I had both.  Thought the LX was great for the size/performance, not so much for the price.  Sold the LX to keep my UHA6S.  Even though the DAC wasn't as good, the amp section was killer especially with the LX.  The DAC was 'good enough' but I'm really missing the sound of a better DAC on the go w/ my phones.  I presume the ODAC will give me that even though it's not self powered which is not ideal for me.  I do expect to like it more than the equivalent amplifier.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> I'm surprised the O2/ODAC combo can power your HD800s as i've heard their very picky with amp/dac


 
   
  It's more picky about synergies, not so much power.  The HD600/650/T1 all use more juice.


----------



## soalexx

I preordered it a while back, it arrived a few days ago.
   
  i immediatly noticed a difference, although it didnt seem as large at first as described (just speaking about DAC's in general, this being my first). however, after adjusting to it, and particularly A/Bing , between DAC and no DAC, the difference is ENORMOUS . 
   
  im so happy with it, and the cost as well.. thats it for me, squared away.
   
  a cool thing i noticed was that listening to that virtual haircut track on my IEM's (westone 3) was always quite terrible, the sound stage was sort of just.. well.. inside and poking out of the head sometimes, a bit of a small, ugly mongoloid sort of thing. playing it through the ODAC made it perfectly 3d, just like playing through open headphones, the difference was night and day and it made me really aware of how much of a difference it makes.


----------



## Dixter

The mailman delivered my order from JDS Labs yesterday....  
  I'd like to mention that JDS has an option for mounting the ODAC in their C421 Amp housing....  so of course they match each other...  I'm happy to report that the combination of the stand alone ODAC and the C421 Amp work great together..  easy to apply bands for a nice portable, small package.  And you can band an Ipod to the setup so you can use the setup on the go with your ipod or with your computer...  and it also has built in battery...   a pretty nice package if you want more portability... 
   
  On the subject of the O2/ODAC not being so portable due to it not having a battery like the standard O2...   The O2/ODAC combination still has the battery terminals inside the case... there just isn't any room to mount the batteries because that is where the ODAC is now mounted...   so having said this, it would be a super easy mod to just take two 9V rechargable batteries, shrink wrap them into a nice package with connecting wires and you just put a small hole in the case and connect the battery pack to the battery terminals...    when you plug in the wall wart, it will charge the battery pack just like the standard O2...    its an option...


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dixter said:


> On the subject of the O2/ODAC not being so portable due to it not having a battery like the standard O2...   The O2/ODAC combination still has the battery terminals inside the case... there just isn't any room to mount the batteries because that is where the ODAC is now mounted...   so having said this, it would be a super easy mod to just take two 9V rechargable batteries, shrink wrap them into a nice package with connecting wires and you just put a small hole in the case and connect the battery pack to the battery terminals...    when you plug in the wall wart, it will charge the battery pack just like the standard O2...    its an option...


 
   
  Without a doubt, I think someone showed a custom case where they had the batteries inside the whole combo.  
   
  Personally, I would prefer a slightly larger case with batteries as an option.  I have a feeling there will be one down the road and when there is I'll probably retrofit, as long as the batteries can power the unit a good 8+ hours.


----------



## pekingduck

micmacmo said:


> Joe at Audio Poutine got the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK) to work with his iPad...with caveats. He's got a video of what he did on his Facebook page. (You don't need a facebook account or be logged in to watch the video.) The actual demo of the CCK starts at 1:54.
> 
> EDIT: spell out CCK and include video timestamp




Thanks! Will check it out


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> Without a doubt, I think someone showed a custom case where they had the batteries inside the whole combo.
> 
> Personally, I would prefer a slightly larger case with batteries as an option.  I have a feeling there will be one down the road and when there is I'll probably retrofit, as long as the batteries can power the unit a good 8+ hours.


 
   
  The enclosure that's commonly used and was originally recommended is the Box Enclosures B2-080.  The PCB slips right in and is of the correct length and width.  The B3-080 has the same length and width but greater height, so that can easily fit the ODAC module and batteries.
   
http://www.boxenclosures.com/category/product_details.html?product__id=213465
http://www.boxenclosures.com/category/product_details.html?product__id=213471
   
       
   
  You're on your own with regards to front and back panels though.  The current sellers have a lot of panels made for the B2-080, so it may be inconvenient (and not have enough customers to make it worthwhile) to also offer it for the taller chassis, unfortunately.  Well, you (somebody) can always make your own though.


----------



## Dixter

For those that want to use the ODAC with an IPAD...   I just tested the M.I.C. All-in-one Card Reader and it works perfect.... 
   
  http://store.micgadget.com/ipad3-card-readers/315-cf-sd-high-speed-card-reader-for-ipad-3.html
   
  the reader comes with an USB cord that you will need to plug into a USB charger or computer to power it.. or the IPAD will complain that
  you are drawing too much power...


----------



## sphinxvc

It's so much suck that the iPhone doesn't support USB out like the iPad.  Does any PMP have USB out for supporting DACs?


----------



## Dixter

I think its more of a safety issue...  if too much current is being drawn from the USB it could burn out hardware...    when USB first came out there were many instances where the USB ports were
  burnt out from some camera's...  
   
   
  on a slightly different subject...  I plugged two ODAC's into a desktop to see if I could get both to stream music at the same time...    the computer replied back...  not enough bandwidth...  so it was a nogo..
   
  I was thinking it would have been nice if I could have powered headphones off of one ODAC while at the same time power a power'd sub woofer off of the other ODAC...   could have been  interesting


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





dixter said:


> I think its more of a safety issue...


 
   
  That's why you make it self-powered so you can use USB2go devices.


----------



## rnconync

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> The enclosure that's commonly used and was originally recommended is the Box Enclosures B2-080.  The PCB slips right in and is of the correct length and width.  The B3-080 has the same length and width but greater height, so that can easily fit the ODAC module and batteries.
> 
> http://www.boxenclosures.com/category/product_details.html?product__id=213465
> http://www.boxenclosures.com/category/product_details.html?product__id=213471
> ...


 
   
  This is exactly what I did and posted pictures of. There are different mounting options, I chose to work with what I had and used some screws to mount the ODAC above the batteries in the B3-080 case. One of the other options to not put screws through the case like I did would be to buy a metal plate or other material and mount the ODAC on that and have the plate be the same size as the O2 board to keep it from moving. A friend and I are working on this alternative with his O2/ODAC combo compared to mine with the screws through the case. 
  I was a bit worried about the panels as well, the front was fairly easy, I printed out the recommended template and taped it  plate with clear packing tape and then drilled the holes with my cheap drill press that I have. The back with the ODAC was a little trickier and I won't say I did that one perfectly


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I presume the ODAC will give me that even though it's not self powered which is not ideal for me.  I do expect to like it more than the equivalent amplifier.


 
   
  You could probably make a battery pack for it and splice it into the power wires on a USB cable.  Voldemort says the power and data need to come on at the same time or it won't talk to the host.  It hasn't been tested but I imagine that putting a switch in the middle to connects them all at one after everything is plugged in would probably make it work.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> You're on your own with regards to front and back panels though.  The current sellers have a lot of panels made for the B2-080, so it may be inconvenient (and not have enough customers to make it worthwhile) to also offer it for the taller chassis, unfortunately.  Well, you (somebody) can always make your own though.


 
   
  Thanks, but that's kinda what I mean.  My DIY'er threshold extends to maybe an hour or two of or my own time (ie. a simple kit to upgrade with, no fab work).  Having to plug it in will be a minor inconvenience... I'll be using it with a 11" MBA which I usually plug in anyway.  But if an easy upgrade comes out I'll be first in line.


----------



## mac336

Looking for some comparisons of the ODAC with some of the more expensive DACs to see how it fairs.  
   
  If anyone can provide comparisons of the ODAC with DACs in the $500-$1,000 range, it  would be nice


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> You could probably make a battery pack for it and splice it into the power wires on a USB cable.  Voldemort says the power and data need to come on at the same time or it won't talk to the host.  It hasn't been tested but I imagine that putting a switch in the middle to connects them all at one after everything is plugged in would probably make it work.


 
   
  Was wondering about this too.  If I end up liking the improvement I'll definitely look into it further.


----------



## jacknight

mac336 said:


> Looking for some comparisons of the ODAC with some of the more expensive DACs to see how it fairs.
> 
> If anyone can provide comparisons of the ODAC with DACs in the $500-$1,000 range, it  would be nice



 
 waiting for someone to do this


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> Looking for some comparisons of the ODAC with some of the more expensive DACs to see how it fairs.
> 
> If anyone can provide comparisons of the ODAC with DACs in the $500-$1,000 range, it  would be nice


 

 Not a proper blind test BUT....
   
  I work and have worked with many DACs. I have auditioned many and worked with studio grade, multi-thousand dollar DACs.
   
  I can confidently tell you that the ODAC, for the price, leaves very little to be desired. Is it the very best DAC I have heard/used and does it have everything I want/need? No...but it's a damn, mighty fine DAC.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





lff said:


> Not a proper blind test BUT....
> 
> I work and have worked with many DACs. I have auditioned many and worked with studio grade, multi-thousand dollar DACs.
> 
> I can confidently tell you that the ODAC, for the price, leaves very little to be desired. Is it the very best DAC I have heard/used and does it have everything I want/need? No...but it's a damn, mighty fine DAC.


 
   
  High praise, LFF - thanks for that. Good to hear from someone with so much experience with high-end kit, but I still think my EHP-02 is *butt-ugly*. I know it should be about the sound, not the casework, but wouldnt it be so much nicer to have a DAC/amp with aesthetic appeal ?
   

   
  If Peachtree can maintain a dealer network and still bring that in at 445 USD, surely someone with the requisite skills can design a more attractive case for the O2/ODAC ?  Just sayin'.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> High praise, LFF - thanks for that. Good to hear from someone with so much experience with high-end kit, but I still think my EHP-02 is *butt-ugly*. I know it should be about the sound, not the casework, but wouldnt it be so much nicer to have a DAC/amp with aesthetic appeal ?
> 
> 
> 
> If Peachtree can maintain a dealer network and still bring that in at 445 USD, surely someone with the requisite skills can design a more attractive case for the O2/ODAC ?  Just sayin'.


 

 Looks really are not a problem for me. What concerns me, first and foremost is the sound.
   
  I know and have read many white papers on why music should only go as high as 24/96. However, I, like many people, would still like to have the option to play back 24/192 or SACD sample rates back in their native format. I also wished it had spdif. While I would love a more pleasing aesthetic and maybe some indicator lights, the sound is what is paramount for me.
   
  I have done many recordings from start to finish so I know what they should sound like. The ODAC tells it like it is. Adds nothing, fakes nothing, removes nothing. I like that.


----------



## Anaxilus

Wait...you think that hideous r2d2 fossil from the 70's w/ glowing blue nipples made my Hasbro looks better than the O2 casework?  You'd have to pay me $445 to put that thing on my desk.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Wait...you think that hideous r2d2 fossil from the 70's made my Hasbro looks better than the O2 casework?  You'd have to pay me $445 to put that thing on my desk.


 

 Well...if you are a fan of R2D2, you can always buy a toy and install an ODAC and O2 within it. Shouldn't be too hard and might look cool.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Wait...you think that hideous r2d2 fossil from the 70's w/ glowing blue nipples made my Hasbro looks better than the O2 casework?  You'd have to pay me $445 to put that thing on my desk.


 
   
  Relax - I picked it as an example of a case that would not look out of place next to an iMac or similar, not as the penultimate piece of audio jewlery. You have to pay more for that ..... 
   

   

   
  Because this is a family forum, I wont paste the image from StereoMojo's review of arguably one of the best DACs on the planet:
   
http://www.stereomojo.com/Lampizator%20Level%204%20DAC%20Review.htm/LampizatorLevel4DAC.htm
   
  Whatever the Lampi does, that is a case straight out of 'Industrial Design 101' or panel shop - I'd still love to hear that DAC.


----------



## WiR3D

Oh god those are beautiful. The issue I have with the ODAC is I dont want a USB dac, I want a SPDIF one, and it doesnt do that. So it leaves me with vastly more expensive options to get close to its quality....
   
   
   


> Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Because this is a family forum, I wont paste the image from StereoMojo's review of arguably one of the best DACs on the planet:
> 
> ...


 
  That is some of the worst photoshop I have ever seen.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Oh god those are beautiful. The issue I have with the ODAC is I dont want a USB dac, I want a SPDIF one, and it doesnt do that.


 
   
  What is wrong with USB ?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> What is wrong with USB ?


 
  Absolutely nothing, but I cant hook my LG bluray player up via USB


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Oh god those are beautiful. The issue I have with the ODAC is I dont want a USB dac, I want a SPDIF one, and it doesnt do that. So it leaves me with vastly more expensive options to get close to its quality....
> 
> 
> 
> That is some of the worst photoshop I have ever seen.


 
   
  A good converter will let you have both, and if you read comments in various DAC threads and reviews of late, a good USB-SPDIF converter is increasingly being seen as the key to improved SQ - sadly, I dont have any objective proof of that, so I'll leave it there.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> A good converter will let you have both, and if you read comments in various DAC threads and reviews of late, a good USB-SPDIF converter is increasingly being seen as the key to improved SQ - sadly, I dont have any objective proof of that, so I'll leave it there.


 
  I don't know, a USB-SPDIF converter may work from a laptops USB to SPDIF, but will it work the other way round, from SPDIF to USB without any computer in the mix? I don't think so.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> A good converter will let you have both, and if you read comments in various DAC threads and reviews of late, a good USB-SPDIF converter is increasingly being seen as the key to improved SQ - sadly, I dont have any objective proof of that, so I'll leave it there.


 
   
  I & another head-fier did blind tests with some notable ones a while back -- used my rig, as well as his KGSSHV/SR009 rig.  Posted it in the Audiophilleo2 thread.
   
  That's as close to objective as I've seen.


----------



## paconavarro

Just pulled the trigger on the ODAC.
  I hope I get it by the weekend.


----------



## sphinxvc

Ordered during the preorder and mine shipped today, looking forward to hearing it.  It would be fun/interesting to do a blind test against the Zodiac Silver.  A couple of guys are getting together in July and we might put this on the agenda; requires multiple hands.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Ordered during the preorder and mine shipped today, looking forward to hearing it.  It would be fun/interesting to do a blind test against the Zodiac Silver.  A couple of guys are getting together in July and we might put this on the agenda; requires multiple hands.


 
   
  Mine as well.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Mine as well.


 
   
  Mine has shipped as well!


----------



## FlySweep

Me three.. huzzah.


----------



## HydronQc

Received the ODAC today, sound great with my m-stage. 
  For 150$, you can't pass on this if you need a usb dac.
   
  Definitely recommend
  Audio poutine version look nice, well built and rca output are gold or silver. 
https://www.facebook.com/AudioPoutine
   
  I can take some good quality pictures if you guys are interested.


----------



## DanBa

The Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with the ODAC:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969
   
  Samsung Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> USB DAC "ODAC" >> amp "O2" >> headphone


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





danba said:


> The Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with the ODAC:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969
> 
> Samsung Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> USB DAC "ODAC" >> amp "O2" >> headphone


 
  now all i need is it in a small form factor case and to stack it with an ALO or something. Boom Android power baby


----------



## chouck

Quote: 





danba said:


> The Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with the ODAC:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969
> 
> Samsung Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> USB DAC "ODAC" >> amp "O2" >> headphone


 

 you Also can use  external DAC with other portable devices such as
  Galaxy S III $700 Android phone
 ARCHOS G9 $250+ Android tablet (looks like the key is OMAP chipset kernel drivers)
 Squeezebox Touch $250 - propriatary logitech linux box
Ainol Novo 7/8 Advance 8gb 100$ Android tablet
   
  compatabillity with ODAC was not tested with other then Galaxy S III, but you are welcome to try!


----------



## moviedave

Is anyone in a position to do a comparison between the ODAC and the HRT Music Streamer II?  As they would probably be the two premier DACs at  around 150 dollars, it would make sense to see how they stack up next to each other.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





moviedave said:


> Is anyone in a position to do a comparison between the ODAC and the HRT Music Streamer II?  As they would probably be the two premier DACs at  around 150 dollars, it would make sense to see how they stack up next to each other.


 
  Earlier in this thread there were comments about ODAC being on par or slightly better than the HRT streamers i believe


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





danba said:


> The Android-powered Samsung Galaxy S III can interwork with the ODAC:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs-how-to-increase-the-issues-priority-with-google/60#post_8468969
> 
> Samsung Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> USB DAC "ODAC" >> amp "O2" >> headphone


 
   
  That's very unusual for the Galaxy S3 to provide enough power via usb.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> That's very unusual for the Galaxy S3 to provide enough power via usb.


 
  But very cool.
   
  Makes me wonder what the issues are with the E17


----------



## wdahm519

So here's an interesting problem.  Its a problem on the PC side, not the ODAC.  My ODAC works perfectly on my Squeezebox Touch at home and with my laptop. 
   
  At work though (Windows 7, 64bit system, using USB) I plug in the ODAC and it will detect it.  Then a minute later with nothing physically changing, it will act like it was removed from the computer.  Nothing will play through it and it won't show up in my devices menu. 
   
  Whats up with that?


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





wdahm519 said:


> So here's an interesting problem.  Its a problem on the PC side, not the ODAC.  My ODAC works perfectly on my Squeezebox Touch at home and with my laptop.
> 
> At work though (Windows 7, 64bit system, using USB) I plug in the ODAC and it will detect it.  Then a minute later with nothing physically changing, it will act like it was removed from the computer.  Nothing will play through it and it won't show up in my devices menu.
> 
> Whats up with that?


 

 Are you running using DS or WASAPI?


----------



## mmayer167

I'm using WASAPI and same system as you with no issues. Did you snoop around in your playback devices window for the ODAC settings?


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> I'm using WASAPI and same system as you with no issues. Did you snoop around in your playback devices window for the ODAC settings?


 
  Yes.
   
  I had to set the output of foobar to 24 bit. This enables bit-perfect playback. You also have to set WASAPI in exclusive mode as well.
   
  There are some manuals on how to do this on the web.


----------



## mmayer167

Thanks for further explaining what i intended to convey.  hope this helps wd


----------



## wdahm519

Quote: 





lff said:


> Are you running using DS or WASAPI?


 
   
  Having foobar open doesn't matter.  If I plug in the ODAC, it will install its driver, and about 10 seconds (or less) disconnect itself.  I did, however, set everything up correctly in the sound profiles, etc. when it was still working.
   
  I honestly don't really care if it doesn't work on a research computer at work anyways, because I can easily just run headphones straight out of the O2 amp from the 3.5mm jack on the computer.  I'm not doing critical listening at work anyways.  It's most likely some security setting on the research machine.
   
  The ODAC is a star at home in my system, so I'm very happy with it already.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Ordered during the preorder and mine shipped today, looking forward to hearing it.  It would be fun/interesting to do a blind test against the Zodiac Silver.  A couple of guys are getting together in July and we might put this on the agenda; requires multiple hands.


 
   
  Let me know how it goes. The odac/o2 combo sounds like an interesting budget setup that one could get for cheap and not much desk space.


----------



## sphinxvc

sure thing, will post impressions here


----------



## sphinxvc

Just got my little stack.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  This one's a keeper.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Just got my little stack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just beautiful
   
  Impressions soon-ish, eh?


----------



## FlySweep

Got my ODAC this afternoon, as well.  In the short time I've had with it, I'm incredibly impressed.  As noted, the DAC's output is pretty hefty.  Using my customs with the O2 (default 2.3x gain) & ODAC, I can't push the volume much past 8 o'clock.  It still sounds spectacular, though.  As far as build quality and looks.. I really like it.  The brushed (c421) case is beautiful.. I'd love to have the O2 in a similar case.  The ODAC's clarity, resolution, and dynamics are excellent.  The quality of sound this 'little' rig delivers is frighteningly good.
   
  Looking forward to running it with the Paradox & HE-500, next.


----------



## Anaxilus

Just got mine too, I'll have a better idea in a few days.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Just got mine too, I'll have a better idea in a few days.


 
   
  Would love to see how the ODAC goes up against your PS Audio


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Would love to see how the ODAC goes up against your PS Audio


 
  lol a 100 dollar dac going up against a 4000 dollar dac....thats real fair


----------



## maverickronin

It depends...
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> *HD800  -  O2 and ODAC vs. Eddie Current Balancing Act (TRS jack) and Modwright Sony XA5400ES*
> 
> The HD800’s best trait is its soundstage and imaging.  It has just the right amount of width and plenty of depth to the soundstage and does out of head projection quite well.  The BA/Modwright combo imparted a reverb-like effect which the Objective combo lacked.  It increased the perceived space a bit but it also blurred the imaging a bit.
> 
> ...


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It depends...


 
  modwright tube derps notwithstanding lol the perfectwave dac is a respectably engineered product, no reason to lump them together


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  
   
  Lol


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> modwright tube derps notwithstanding lol the perfectwave dac is a respectably engineered product, no reason to lump them together


 
   
  You're the one going by price.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But yeah, otherwise, probably not.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Impressions soon-ish, eh?


 
   
  Unfortunately my aural microscope the HD800 is with a friend at the moment, so I will reserve proper impressions for now.  Unless the LCD-2 actually manages to resolve a difference between DACs.  We shall see.
   
  Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Got my ODAC this afternoon, as well.  In the short time I've had with it, I'm incredibly impressed.  As noted, the DAC's output is pretty hefty.  Using my customs with the O2 (default 2.3x gain) & ODAC, I can't push the volume much past 8 o'clock.  It still sounds spectacular, though.  As far as build quality and looks.. I really like it.  The brushed (c421) case is beautiful.. I'd love to have the O2 in a similar case.  The ODAC's clarity, resolution, and dynamics are excellent.  The quality of sound this 'little' rig delivers is frighteningly good.
> 
> Looking forward to running it with the Paradox & HE-500, next.


 
   
  The O2 I received today looks like it has a cosmetically different face plate than my first two O2s--so there might have been an effort made to match the two units together.  Agree with you though that if the O2 had the same black brushed case it would have been perfect. 
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It depends...


 
   
  I'm with you on this, anything can happen.  I too look forward to hearing any PWD comparisons that may float down.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> lol a 100 dollar dac going up against a 4000 dollar dac....thats real fair


 
  lol i know it's not fair but people have compared the ODAC to the benchmark DACS and as i recall those bad boys are roughly in the $1000 range.
   
  I'm quite sure the PS Audio will outshine the ODAC but it'd be an interesting comparison and a more rewarding feeling to know that your $150 DAC can hold it's ground against a $4000 DAC
   
  BTW judging by the look of the PS Audio i had a feeling it was going to be at least $1000 but i had no idea it was going to be 4000...that's crazy lol


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> lol i know it's not fair but people have compared the ODAC to the benchmark DACS and as i recall those bad boys are roughly in the $1000 range.


 
   
  I haven't read too much of the back and forth in the forums on the ODAC, but it is worth noting that the creator specifically talks about testing against his own Benchmark DAC, failing a blind test, etc.
   
  I have to say, it's a pretty amazing unit (I have the O2/ODAC combo and haven't heard the ODAC by itself).  I can't comment about any back-to-back tests against other DACs but I was coming from a Metrum Octave -> AP2 -> WA6SE maxxed -> Thunderpants, I can't definitely say one setup is better than the other, but I'm also not listening back to back either so take this for what it is worth: my gut from auditory memory is the big desktop setup was harder hitting, involving, and better sense of depth (more dynamic?), but transparency/accuracy, maybe even tonality, might be in the little transportable's favor.  It's taken me by surprise actually.  It kills me that I'm probably going to have to resell it.. the whole reason I picked it up in the first place is I'm now a remote contractor, but I'm rarely in one spot for more than a couple hours so I'm probably going to ditch all my gear and get some IEMs into my iPhone.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I haven't read too much of the back and forth in the forums on the ODAC, but it is worth noting that the creator specifically talks about testing against his own Benchmark DAC, failing a blind test, etc.


 
   
   
  You're saying he found that the ODAC sounded better than the benchmark?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> You're saying he found that the ODAC sounded better than the benchmark?


 
   
  no hes saying the voldemort says that they failed a DBT meaning they sounded the same, not that one was better than the other


----------



## draven5494

I received mine today and first impression is that the ODAC is definitely leaps and bounds better than the DAC in my Auzentech Forte soundcard.  My setup is like this:  Foobar (WASAPI) - ODAC - Matrix m-stage - Q701s.  
   
  There really is no comparison when it comes to the clarity and image separation.  The ODAC cleans up the upper range of the treble as well.  On my Forte, it would just mush that section into a distorted mess.  The ODAC is much better in that regard.
   
  I do have one issue though.  I seem to be missing a good deal of bass while using the ODAC.  The Q701s are not bass-heavy in the least but with my Forte they handled that area quite well.  On the ODAC the bass definitely sounds tighter but it also seems that some of the sub-bass is missing.  I am just not getting that rumble in certain songs like I do with the Forte.
   
  I am going to let it play for a while to see if it changes.
   
  Has anyone else experienced this?


----------



## alphaphoenix

So, the issue with bass is quantity versus quality, right?  If so, the result has been my experience with the few DACs (range $50-$1200) I've listened too personally at at local meets.  You may have to change the opamp in the M-Stage, tweak with EQ, and/or change headphones to get the same bass quantity you heard before, but in the process risk changing other areas in the sound.


----------



## sphinxvc

So, there's a pretty big difference between the Zodiac and O2...one of them has their channels swapped.  It could be that the red/white jacks on my amp are mixed up.  Can anyone tell me what side they hear the paper ripping on in the beginning of "Money" DSOTM?  I would like to hear from people that actually have the CD or Vinyl, ie. a reliable copy -- Youtube doesn't help since I found examples of the paper ripping on the left as well as right there.  Thanks.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> So, there's a pretty big difference between the Zodiac and O2...one of them has their channels swapped.  It could be that the red/white jacks on my amp are mixed up.  Can anyone tell me what side they hear the paper ripping on in the beginning of "Money" DSOTM?  I would like to hear from people that actually have the CD or Vinyl, ie. a reliable copy -- Youtube doesn't help since I found examples of the paper ripping on the left as well as right there.  Thanks.


 

 First rip of the paper comes from the right side.


----------



## sphinxvc

Thanks LFF, that puts the Zodiac and amp in the clear.  And I just checked the ODAC using a mini cable to the O2 and that one's good too.  So that just leaves this Ratshack mini-to-rca cable to take the blame.  It's color coded wrong.  =/


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Thanks LFF, that puts the Zodiac and amp in the clear.  And I just checked the ODAC using a mini cable to the O2 and that one's good too.  So that just leaves this Ratshack mini-to-rca cable to take the blame.  It's color coded wrong.  =/


 
   
  And they say cables don't make a difference.


----------



## sphinxvc




----------



## MLee

I received my ODAC last night, plugged it in and it sounded terrible.  The guitar sounded normal but the vocal was in an echo cave somewhere.  Then I realized the plug from the ODAC to the O2 was only half way in.  Cables do matter, especially if they're not plugged in all the way.......  First impressions - my opinion will not be worth much as it is not an apple to apple comparison, but here goes.  I was using an iPhone 4S and the iStreamer with the O2 before, now my pc and the ODAC.  I don't need as much volume as before to obtain the same decibel level.  The sound seems to have a bit more resolution.  The H3000ANV sounded great.  I also tried my Etys and the ER4P led me to believe the ODAC is as technically pure as my ears are capable of hearing.  No need for me to throw more money at a DAC trying to squeeze a little better sound out of my setup.


----------



## draven5494

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> So, the issue with bass is quantity versus quality, right?  If so, the result has been my experience with the few DACs (range $50-$1200) I've listened too personally at at local meets.  You may have to change the opamp in the M-Stage, tweak with EQ, and/or change headphones to get the same bass quantity you heard before, but in the process risk changing other areas in the sound.


 
   
  The quality of the bass is great on the ODAC along with everything else.  However, the quality of the bass through my Forte is very nicely detailed as well, but there is more of it.  It's not bloated or boomy.  I definitely have less bass through the ODAC and with the Q701s, I need all the bass I can get... 
   
  I am not a fan of equalizing, it seems to add an artificial touch that I just don't like.  I may try an opamp or two, but I just don't know if that is going to make that big of a difference.  
   
  I am torn.  I love the detail of the ODAC and I love my Q701s.  If I could mix the detail of the ODAC with the bass from my Forte I would be in heaven.


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





draven5494 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's a good thing you don't listen to pop, rock, metal or r'n'b then.


----------



## willmax

Today I received my Standalone ODAC from JDS Labs, thank you John!
  Very neat front plate and casework, if it also had RCA output included it would have been just perfect.
  As for the sound, this little bad boy is amazing. The clarity and crispness throughout all frequencies is second to none. At the moment listening to the ODAC straight from Foobar with Azio plugin with no amp!


----------



## thrand1

What types of music are you all using when auditioning the ODAC? Like several others I am comparing the ODAC to products like the MSII and wondering how it does on music genres like rock and metal. I read one user review of the MSII that made it seem like it sounded "congested" on complex passages (forget the exact wording), so I am wondering if the ODAC is "better" on some types of music versus others?
   
  Am considering this with the JDSLabs C421 and my Shure 940s, so am looking for high quality (not quantity) bass and good performance for guitar-heavy music like rock and metal...thanks everyone!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





thrand1 said:


> What types of music are you all using when auditioning the ODAC? Like several others I am comparing the ODAC to products like the MSII and wondering how it does on music genres like rock and metal. I read one user review of the MSII that made it seem like it sounded "congested" on complex passages (forget the exact wording), so I am wondering if the ODAC is "better" on some types of music versus others?
> 
> Am considering this with the JDSLabs C421 and my Shure 940s, so am looking for high quality (not quantity) bass and good performance for guitar-heavy music like rock and metal...thanks everyone!


 
  personally I believe a source should be absolutely neutral and perfectly transparent. Not adding or removing anything. 
  All the colouration should happen amp side and with the headphones. And I think most of you will find this is best. The only real difference would be smooth vs harsh


----------



## thrand1

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> personally I believe a source should be absolutely neutral and perfectly transparent. Not adding or removing anything.
> All the colouration should happen amp side and with the headphones. And I think most of you will find this is best. The only real difference would be smooth vs harsh


 

 I agree- perhaps I worded my question incorrectly or in a vague manner. I am aiming for the more neutral sound especially when in comes to bass quality and quantity, and some of the MSII reviews seem to hint at a certain coloration of the sound. I want something that comes as close to what you described- not adding or removing anything. I certainly don't want the DAC messing with anything, and it sounds so far like the ODAC is very transparent like the O2...since I don't need much amp for my headphones I am focusing more on the performance of the DAC. Very pleased with the feedback on the ODAC so far, definitely want more as people get the chance to post their impressions!


----------



## rawrster

I'm waiting for more impressions as well  I might want to try the odac/o2 combo one day just to try it. I do agree abou the source. I feel that there should be "no sound" for the source or as close as possible to that and any coloration should come from the amp.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





thrand1 said:


> What types of music are you all using when auditioning the ODAC? Like several others I am comparing the ODAC to products like the MSII and wondering how it does on music genres like rock and metal. I read one user review of the MSII that made it seem like it sounded "congested" on complex passages (forget the exact wording), so I am wondering if the ODAC is "better" on some types of music versus others?
> 
> Am considering this with the JDSLabs C421 and my Shure 940s, so am looking for high quality (not quantity) bass and good performance for guitar-heavy music like rock and metal...thanks everyone!


 
   
  All types of music, I listen to everything. If you want me to give something specific a listen, I will.. With either the Stax Lamda Pro's or my DIY Limba Magnums and my odac and o2. In my opinion, it doesn't do "better" with some types of music versus others.
   
  It should give you what you are looking for.
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> personally I believe a source should be absolutely neutral and perfectly transparent. Not adding or removing anything.
> All the colouration should happen amp side and with the headphones. And I think most of you will find this is best. The only real difference would be smooth vs harsh


 
  agreed. I also personally believe coloration should be avoided when it comes to the amp too, but that's just what I like.
  Quote: 





rawrster said:


> I'm waiting for more impressions as well  I might want to try the odac/o2 combo one day just to try it. I do agree abou the source. I feel that there should be "no sound" for the source or as close as possible to that and any coloration should come from the amp.


 
  I would suggest trying it out. Get them in their own cases.
   
  I have been listening with Stax lamdas and my magnums and I'm very happy with what I have been hearing. Very transparent to my ears.


----------



## MLee

Most of what I've listened to with my new ODAC is rock.  Compared to my iPhone and iStreamer, the ODAC wins hands down.  Here's a variety, none are especially hard on a DAC and amp, that all sound exceptionally good with my ODAC - O2 - ATH H3000ANV:
   
  ZZ Top - Blue Jean Blues
  Allman Brothers Band - Brothers and Sisters, Pony Boy; Eat a Peach, Little Martha
  Jeff Beck - Performing This Week - Live at Ronnie Scott's, all songs; Emotion & Commotion, all songs
  Eric Johnson - Ah Via Musicom, Cliffs of Dover
  Charlie Musselwhite - Ace of Harps, She May Be Your Woman
  Ozark Mountain Daredevils - Ozark Mountain Daredevils, Chicken Train, Standin' On The Rock, Beauty In The River
  Gordon Lightfoot - Greatest hits, Sundown
  Joe Cocker - Anthology, You Are So Beautiful
  James Taylor - Mud Slide Slim, You've Got A Friend
  Grand Funk Railroad - Closer To Home, Nothing Is The Same
  Jimi Hendrix - Martin Scorsese Presents The Blues, It's Too bad, My Friend (Heard things in this song I'd never heard before)
  Zac Brown - Pass the Jar, Alabama Jubilee
  Janis Joplin - Summertime, Try (Just a little Harder)
  Yes - Close to The Edge
  Jewel - Sweet and Wild, Stay Here Forever
  Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin I - Dazed and Confused, I Can't Quit you Baby
  Stevie Ray Vaughan - In Step, Leave My Girl Alone
  Eric Clapton - One More Car, One More Rider, Over the Rainbow; 461 Ocean Boulevard, Let It Grow
   
  And to throw in an encore from another Genre:
   
  Eiji Oue Minnesota Orchestra - Bolero, Praeludium For Small Orchestra; actually the whole album sounds pretty nice.
   
  I plan on spending some time this weekend in my favorite chair, with a little single barrel bourbon in my hand, exploring a little more of my collection......


----------



## Kayk

So I'm totally sold on getting the ODAC with the exception of the case; it's not the correct size and it has a few inches of empty space inside it? As much as I hate waiting, I'd prefer to wait until these revised enclosures come out so the ODAC doesn't have to be unnecessarily larger than it should. Is there an ETA on when these new enclosures are expected to be used for the ODAC?


----------



## alphaphoenix

Just came in the mail today.  I sold off my previous ODAC for a matched JDS Labs pair of the ODAC and C421.  From a business and operations perspectives, I can see why John went this route.  I'm going to have fun this weekend.


----------



## FlySweep

-- Laptop --> ODAC  --> O2 (running off batteries) --> HE-500
  -- USB DAC format settings on laptop set to 24-bit/44.1khz (I'm experiencing the following issue even when set to 16-bit/44.1)
  -- Streaming well recorded music via my MOG.com subscription
   
  My O2 has default gain settings (2x, 6x).  When I switch it to high gain, the HE-500 clips/distorts very easily.. even at low volumes.  Currently, the O2's high gain is unusable with the ODAC.  The ODAC+O2+HE-500 on normal gain sound very good and there appears to be no sound quality issues.
   
  Everything is fine on my PCs end of things (I've restarted the audio service, etc).
   
  Is this an issue with the ODAC's output voltage (and the battery-driven O2's ability to handle it) or could something be wrong with my ODAC?  Has anyone else experienced any issues when running the HE-500 with the ODAC & O2 (w/ batteries on high gain)?
   
  I'll test the ODAC with the O2 on high gain (with AC power instead of batteries) & connect it to my desktop amp (TubeDAC-11) to see if the issues persists.


----------



## evanft

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> -- Laptop --> ODAC  --> O2 (running off batteries) --> HE-500
> -- USB DAC format settings on laptop set to 24-bit/44.1khz (I'm experiencing the following issue even when set to 16-bit/44.1)
> -- Streaming well recorded music via my MOG.com subscription
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's the O2. The high gain setting is meant for portable devices that typically output 1 V or less. The ODAC outputs 2 V.


----------



## johnman1116

Question, cant you just plug in your headphones directly into your ODAC and use the volume control on your music player or computer volume? 
   
  I dont know if I hear anything different and I dont know if I am supposed to but now my heart is at ease


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> -- Laptop --> ODAC  --> O2 (running off batteries) --> HE-500
> -- USB DAC format settings on laptop set to 24-bit/44.1khz (I'm experiencing the following issue even when set to 16-bit/44.1)
> -- Streaming well recorded music via my MOG.com subscription
> 
> My O2 has default gain settings (2x, 6x).  When I switch it to high gain, the HE-500 clips/distorts very easily.. even at low volumes.  Currently, the O2's high gain is unusable with the ODAC.  The ODAC+O2+HE-500 on normal gain sound very good and there appears to be no sound quality issues.


 
  So you find that the O2 has enough juice to power your HE-500 adequately?


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *mac336* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So you find that the O2 has enough juice to power your HE-500 adequately?


 
   
  Yes.  It doesn't drive it as well as my desktop amp (TubeDAC-11) in terms of dynamics.. but it's close.  Much of the time, though, I'm driving my HE-500 with the O2 or Neco V3 (out of convenience).. which both work wonderfully.  The NEco probably gets the edge there, though.  Bottom line, the O2 pairs very well with the HE-500.. no regret there.
   
  I'm having an balanced XLR cable & banana plug adapter made for my HE-500 so I can drive it off speaker amps/taps.  Will report back on how the results compare, soon.


----------



## wdahm519

Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> Question, cant you just plug in your headphones directly into your ODAC and use the volume control on your music player or computer volume?
> 
> I dont know if I hear anything different and I dont know if I am supposed to but now my heart is at ease


 
   
  The ODAC doesn't provide any extra power output because it has no amplification.  You're not driving headphones to full potential that way.  Same thing is just plugging them into your computer (same power), but you're effectively using an external soundcard inbetweeen.
   
  That's also why on various websites that sell the ODAC, it says (usually in big bold letters) THE ODAC DOES WAS NOT MEANT TO DRIVE HEADPHONES.


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> And they say cables don't make a difference.


 
   
 _**LOL**_


----------



## 0o0o0o

Just received the ODAC from JDSLabs today, initial impressions vs my old Essence STX, using my Mackies:
   
  STX sound signature is definitely a bit warmer. 
   
  Detail-wise I would lean towards the ODAC but its really too close to easily discern with sub-30 minutes of listening.
   
  Biggest difference between the two is the STX sounds congested in comparison to the ODAC. I hesitate to say it's soundstage, but there is a certain effortless quality to the way the ODAC presents music. *Perhaps the jitter issue with the STX rearing its head?*
   

   
  Edit: Further observations.
   
  STX has more bass quantity, but often sounds bloated in comparison to the ODAC. STX treble becomes harsh at higher volumes; the ODAC much less so. 
   
  For now I'd say ODAC>STX. But both DACs are similar enough that any heavy PC gamer/movie watcher might prefer the STX for its Dolby DSPs.
   
Using the line-out from the STX(ASIO) with stock opamps. And my M-stage's dual inputs to compare.


----------



## LoveKnight

Oh. This DAC is absolutely amazing. Hopefully there will be more impressions and comparison to other DACs. Just reading a lot of  comments in this topic and found out this DAC is better than HRT music streamer II makes me so excited. However, I would like to read a more detail review. Thanks guys! Keep going!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





0o0o0o said:


> Just received the ODAC from JDSLabs today, initial impressions vs my old Essence STX, using my Mackies:
> 
> STX sound signature is definitely a bit warmer.
> 
> ...


 
  I agree with your view of the STX, the stock opamps give that congested bass heavy feeling. Try THS4032 in the I/V, dunno about buffer, they could be unstable. but they are definitely the most neutral, and verge on the AD797 level of quality without the piercing highs, and heavy oscillation.
  I think they will be much closer then.


----------



## rnconync

Awesome, great to hear more people are getting their ODAC's and are happy with them, It's always nice to hear people talk good about a piece of equipment you own! I am still very happy with mine, I almost had a heart attack the other day when I was rearranging the ODAC in my case where I mounted it and one of the small surface mount components broke off...it was a pain to get it soldered back on, but I was successful and luckily it has not seemed to effect the sound of the device in any way...I was worried I would have to buy another ODAC!


----------



## chrislangley4253

johnman1116 said:


> Question, cant you just plug in your headphones directly into your ODAC and use the volume control on your music player or computer volume?
> 
> I dont know if I hear anything different and I dont know if I am supposed to but now my heart is at ease




No. The impedance is way too high. The odac is designed to be used with an amp.



wdahm519 said:


> The ODAC doesn't provide any extra power output because it has no amplification.  You're not driving headphones to full potential that way.  Same thing is just plugging them into your computer (same power), but you're effectively using an external soundcard inbetweeen.
> 
> That's also why on various websites that sell the ODAC, it says (usually in big bold letters) THE ODAC DOES WAS NOT MEANT TO DRIVE HEADPHONES.




Only partially correct. The amp provides power, but also clean LOW IMPEDANCE power.


----------



## johnman1116

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> No. The impedance is way too high. The odac is designed to be used with an amp.
> Only partially correct. The amp provides power, but also clean LOW IMPEDANCE power.


 
  That's what I wanted to hear.


----------



## livewire

Dang I love this little DAC!
   
  Something strange happened the other day, I almost went into withdrawals.
  My Odac just died when I went to fire up my Stax rig. Nada, no sound whatsoever.
  I leave it plugged into the USB all of the time, I was worried it burned out. 
  Something glitched out, dont know if it was the computer or the Odac.
  Anyhow, unplugging the Odac from the USB port and the amp inputs, then rebooting the computer did the trick.
  Plugged it back in, re-applied the computer settings when prompted,
  then the beautiful music started to play again!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Dang I love this little DAC!
> 
> Something strange happened the other day, I almost went into withdrawals.
> My Odac just died when I went to fire up my Stax rig. Nada, no sound whatsoever.
> ...


 
  winXP? lol


----------



## livewire

Close. Vista.


----------



## bobeau

FWIW, my ODAC also is a little funky with connectivity.  On OSX I'm using MOG to stream my music, and if I unplug/replug while MOG is running the OS will switch back to the ODAC in the settings, but sound does not come out.  I have to quit and restart MOG.  Haven't experienced this issue w/ my E17.


----------



## hamburgerladdy

"...the odac is not very pleasant to listen to. It's thin and hard-edged, with a headache-inducing digital sheen that frankly I haven't experienced since the early gen CD players of the 1980's."
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/rjm/888-nwavguy-odac-24-96-dac-review.html
   
  Wow, this is the first negative review I have found.


----------



## MattTCG

Just wanted to add a few brief impressions to this thread. Not ready to do a full review yet. I just received my odac today. I bought a pre-assembled unit from Joseph Tam at JDM Performance. 
   
  I have been listening to the fiio e17 for about a week or so. I really do like the e17 and feel that it really overachieves for it's price. I plugged in the odac to a Schitt Asgard and nearly fell out of my chair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I expected some modest improvements in the sound signature but I was truly stunned at the sound produced by the odac/asgard (I should add that I have been using the e17 as a straight dac to the asgard for this past week. 
   
  I am forming some opinions of the odac compared to the Bifrost but they have not fully developed yet. But let me say this...the odac goes toe to toe with the bifrost at about half the cost. I will need to do further auditioning to hone in some differences in the sound signature though.


----------



## Raines

check for that   ODAC vs bitfrost  me wants to know
   
  Is the asgard better than O2?


----------



## MattTCG

I don't have the o2...bifrost, not bitfrost


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


> "...the odac is not very pleasant to listen to. It's thin and hard-edged, with a headache-inducing digital sheen that frankly I haven't experienced since the early gen CD players of the 1980's."
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/rjm/888-nwavguy-odac-24-96-dac-review.html
> 
> Wow, this is the first negative review I have found.


 
  I agree with the review, although I did not find the odac 'unpleasant', I do find it cold, sterile, and 'digital'. On the plus side it pulls a lot of microdetail out of the music and the low noise and channel separation is amazing. IMO yes it's better than HRTs but that's not saying much. I still prefer Hiface 2 with the equally small and well designed French TDA1543 available on ebay. The odac does detail and treble better, but that's it. The microdetail is addicting though and very impressive, if listening fatigue doesn't do you in. I also have a suspicion that lack of power holds it back. It shares the 'lightweight' quality of every usb-powered dac I have heard, with the exception of the Dacport Lx. For $100 can't complain, but will probably sell mine shortly. Just my .02.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just wanted to add a few brief impressions to this thread. Not ready to do a full review yet. I just received my odac today. I bought a pre-assembled unit from Joseph Tam at JDM Performance.
> 
> I have been listening to the fiio e17 for about a week or so. I really do like the e17 and feel that it really overachieves for it's price. I plugged in the odac to a Schitt Asgard and nearly fell out of my chair.
> 
> ...


 
  ODAC a worthy upgrade from the E17?


----------



## MattTCG

Yes, the odac is a very nice/significant upgrade from the e17 when you are coming dac to dac. Now, when you consider that the e17 is also a very portable device that is also an amp that you can buy shipped for $139 then it's a different game. Depends on what you're looking for. Straight dac vs dac, the odac is superior by a considerable margin to my ears.


----------



## Maxis

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Yes, the odac is a very nice/significant upgrade from the e17 when you are coming dac to dac. Now, when you consider that the e17 is also a very portable device that is also an amp that you can buy shipped for $139 then it's a different game. Depends on what you're looking for. Straight dac vs dac, the odac is superior by a considerable margin to my ears.


 
   
  Funny.. I think i was in the running to get your MSII to replace my Fiio E10  then we meet again here !! lol 
   
  Well it looks like i wont be needing to be sniffing the FS forums daily for another MSII considering this is the better product and from your opinion it is a step up when paired with the Asgard.. (which incidentally i also use lol)
   
  I do however worry that my already slightly lean Q701's may take another hit in the bass dept but ill take the risk and see.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


> "...the odac is not very pleasant to listen to. It's thin and hard-edged, with a headache-inducing digital sheen that frankly I haven't experienced since the early gen CD players of the 1980's."
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/rjm/888-nwavguy-odac-24-96-dac-review.html
> 
> Wow, this is the first negative review I have found.


 
   
  Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> I agree with the review, although I did not find the odac 'unpleasant', I do find it cold, sterile, and 'digital'. On the plus side it pulls a lot of microdetail out of the music and the low noise and channel separation is amazing. IMO yes it's better than HRTs but that's not saying much. I still prefer Hiface 2 with the equally small and well designed French TDA1543 available on ebay. The odac does detail and treble better, but that's it. The microdetail is addicting though and very impressive, if listening fatigue doesn't do you in. I also have a suspicion that lack of power holds it back. It shares the 'lightweight' quality of every usb-powered dac I have heard, with the exception of the Dacport Lx. For $100 can't complain, but will probably sell mine shortly. Just my .02.


 
   
  I had the same experiences out of the box, I was so disappointed I was ready to get rid of it the day I received it.  I even looked up the JDS return policy.  I have since tried a few things to isolate issues and have had some positive listening sessions and some confused ones.  There's a few things I need to test out still before I can determine which is the real ODAC.  I've never experienced this phenomenon from a DAC before so I need to filter out what's what.  All I can say is that sometimes it's performed brilliantly, definitely being the upgrade to my Leckerton DAC I was hoping for, other times it's been painfully fatiguing and incoherent.  To be continued....


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Yes, the odac is a very nice/significant upgrade from the e17 when you are coming dac to dac. Now, when you consider that the e17 is also a very portable device that is also an amp that you can buy shipped for $139 then it's a different game. Depends on what you're looking for. Straight dac vs dac, the odac is superior by a considerable margin to my ears.


 
   
  Thanks for the info....needed a direct comparison between the ODAC and the E17. I was considering the HRT MSII but people have been telling me it's not much of an upgrade from the E17. THEN i came across the ODAC and have heard it's roughly on par with the MSII+ and even some thousand dollar DACS..for only a fraction of the cost. 
   
  Thank goodness the guys at audio poutine live within a very close distance so i can just do a local pickup when i order one =)


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I had the same experiences out of the box, I was so disappointed I was ready to get rid of it the day I received it.  I even looked up the JDS return policy.  I have since tried a few things to isolate issues and have had some positive listening sessions and some confused ones.  There's a few things I need to test out still before I can determine which is the real ODAC.  I've never experienced this phenomenon from a DAC before so I need to filter out what's what.  All I can say is that sometimes it's performed brilliantly, definitely being the upgrade to my Leckerton DAC I was hoping for, other times it's been painfully fatiguing and incoherent.  To be continued....


 
   
  Please keep us posted (or feel free to PM).


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I had the same experiences out of the box, I was so disappointed I was ready to get rid of it the day I received it.  I even looked up the JDS return policy.  I have since tried a few things to isolate issues and have had some positive listening sessions and some confused ones.  There's a few things I need to test out still before I can determine which is the real ODAC.  I've never experienced this phenomenon from a DAC before so I need to filter out what's what.  All I can say is that sometimes it's performed brilliantly, definitely being the upgrade to my Leckerton DAC I was hoping for, other times it's been painfully fatiguing and incoherent.  To be continued....


 
   
  What?
   
  I'd say it's defective but I can't even figure out how something could even be defective in that way.


----------



## sphinxvc

Same here too actually, it worked fine on my home rig, but when I took it to work last week it simply stopped working.  If I left it alone for a few minutes it would pick up but then after a bit go out again.  Confusing to say the least, just like Anax said.


----------



## alphaphoenix

Hmmm.  My JDS Labs ODAC, which I received on Friday experienced something similar where it appears the USB cable connection cut out for a second or two until I touched and wiggled the connection.   I hope we didn't receive a bad batch.  I need to utilize it more if it rears its ugly head again.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> What?
> 
> I'd say it's defective but I can't even figure out how something could even be defective in that way.


 
   
  So far it seems likely to be power related.  Either the USB source and/or the input impedance of the amp being used.  I've noticed variation based on high versus low gain w/ lack of global feedback usually having the issues so far.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> So far it seems likely to be power related.  Either the USB source and/or the input impedance of the amp being used.  I've noticed variation based on high versus low gain w/ lack of global feedback usually having the issues so far.


 
   
  Voldemort said that the amp's Z in should be at least 5k.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Voldemort said that the amp's Z in should be at least 5k.


 
   
  Thanks, I'll try to grab some measurements.
   
  Has there been any comment on low powered USB ports such as some laptops?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Thanks, I'll try to grab some measurements.
> 
> Has there been any comment on low powered USB ports such as some laptops?


 
   
  I haven't heard anything about that.  It works fine with my Asus 1005HA netbook, my desktop with an Asus P6T Deluxe V2, and my old and moldy Dell workstation at the office.
   
  Some people were getting it to work with their iPads but I don't follow that stuff since I'm not a fan of either Apple or tablets so IDK exactly what's involved.


----------



## WiR3D

2 things
   
  1: the odac is not supposed to be musical, its supposed to be accurate, going with the model that the source should be transparent and not add anything, leaving the colouration to the amp.
   
  2: AFAIK the ODAC needs 120mW, BUT as we have tested it works with the SGS3, which is a low power and I'm willing to bet only provides 100mW (which AFAIK is the low power standard?), so the power issue could be a possibility, a worrisome one.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> 2 things
> 
> 1: the odac is not supposed to be musical, its supposed to be accurate, going with the model that the source should be transparent and not add anything, leaving the colouration to the amp.


 
   
  That is 180 degrees away from my understanding of how the source-amp combination should work. Better yet, they should BOTH be neutral and transparent, and any 'coloration' should be left to the headphones/speakers. I accept that there are many Head-Fiers who attempt to use amps as 'hardware equalisation', but that isnt the audiophile ideal.


----------



## 0o0o0o

Playing music through my ODAC with Foobar + wasapi output and on 3 occasions so far, strange electronic noise starts starts invading the sound. It disappears after stopping playback but it is annoying when it does occur. The noise itself is rather difficult to describe and isn't like any other electronic interference I've heard before. Only thing I can compare it to is (I'm not joking here) is a dubstep track's beat. Wubwubwubwub. lol...
   
  Edit: Ok just happened again as I was scrolling with my mouse. Guessing I've got the buffer in Foobar set too low. Annoying having a delay between input and playback though.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





0o0o0o said:


> Playing music through my ODAC with Foobar + wasapi output and on 3 occasions so far, strange electronic noise starts starts invading the sound. It disappears after stopping playback but it is annoying when it does occur. The noise itself is rather difficult to describe and isn't like any other electronic interference I've heard before. Only thing I can compare it to is (I'm not joking here) is a dubstep track's beat. Wubwubwubwub. lol...
> 
> Edit: Ok just happened again as I was scrolling with my mouse. Guessing I've got the buffer in Foobar set too low. Annoying having a delay between input and playback though.


 
  Highly possible its WASAPI, with the old version of my STX drivers, and my player, every time I clicked it would create a horrible noise. 
  No such issues with the latest ASIO or WASAPI.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





maxis said:


>


 
   
   
  The odac makes a real nice pairing with the Asgard. I listened till the wee hours of the morning to the differences between the odac and the bifrost. Bottom line, they are both very very good. I'm not sure that I could pick one over the over for sound quality. The bifrost wins on size, same case as Asgard, more connections but it cost twice as much as the odac.  Not sure that I can keep it for twice the cash.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Thanks for the info....needed a direct comparison between the ODAC and the E17. I was considering the HRT MSII but people have been telling me it's not much of an upgrade from the E17. THEN i came across the ODAC and have heard it's roughly on par with the MSII+ and even some thousand dollar DACS..for only a fraction of the cost.
> 
> Thank goodness the guys at audio poutine live within a very close distance so i can just do a local pickup when i order one =)


 
   
  Lucky you on the local pickup!! They ship from Canada, but it was incredibly impressed with the shipping time. I think mine made it four days. I will also vouch for the build quality of Audio Poutine. Be sure to get the led light on the front of the case. It adds $15 but look so nice!!


----------



## chrislangley4253

so, I think it is a problem with windows reducing the power to the usb port after a while. I kept having issues where I would hear distortion if I walked away from my laptop for a while and then resumed listening. I discovered that replugging the usb cable would fix the problem. I then went in to device manager and turned off the setting that allows windows to reduce or turn off the power to the given usb port, I haven't had issues since, but I haven't done a ton of listening either.

 Control Panel>Device Manager>Universal Serial Bus controllers>Right Click Generic/USB Root Hub>Properties>Power Management>Uncheck Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.


 See if this fixes your problems guys, I think it fixed mine!


----------



## sorue

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I had the same experiences out of the box, I was so disappointed I was ready to get rid of it the day I received it.  I even looked up the JDS return policy.  I have since tried a few things to isolate issues and have had some positive listening sessions and some confused ones.  There's a few things I need to test out still before I can determine which is the real ODAC.  I've never experienced this phenomenon from a DAC before so I need to filter out what's what.  *All I can say is that sometimes it's performed brilliantly, definitely being the upgrade to my Leckerton DAC I was hoping for, other times it's been painfully fatiguing and incoherent. * To be continued....


 
  Sounds like a case of the DAC being too revealing of poorly mastered content, perhaps.


----------



## wushuliu

I just added an external linear power supply to the ODAC and the performance improvement is immediate. No longer sounds strained and now the soundstage is nice and wide (I am using speakers not headphones). Overall 'clinical' quality is still there but certainly could be due to other factors. So power is definitely a factor in my case.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





sorue said:


> Sounds like a case of the DAC being too revealing of poorly mastered content, perhaps.


 
   
  Not that I always agree with Anax on issues of DACs and amps but I don't think it's too likely he would have missed that...


----------



## alphaphoenix

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Not that I always agree with Anax on issues of DACs and amps but* I don't think it's too likely he would have missed that...*


 
   
  ^My brief discussion with Anax proves this being correct.


----------



## thune

Reportedly, using a USB cable with a ferrite choke at the ODAC-end results in a measurable improvement. I'm curious how much subjective improvement this simple change makes.
   
  Wushuliu,
  Are you just using 5v supply (leaving the negative rail to the internal charge-pump in the  ES9023)? And how are you addressing power on sequencing?


----------



## wushuliu

I use this usb extension connected to a  +5v linear power supply.


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





thune said:


> Reportedly, using a USB cable with a ferrite choke at the ODAC-end results in a measurable improvement. I'm curious how much subjective improvement this simple change makes.


 
  Huzzah! That makes sense! My USB cable has a ferrite choke.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> I just added an external linear power supply to the ODAC and the performance improvement is immediate. No longer sounds strained and now the soundstage is nice and wide (I am using speakers not headphones). Overall 'clinical' quality is still there but certainly could be due to other factors. So power is definitely a factor in my case.


 

 hmm, interesting
   
  what are you running the ODAC out of that makes the external power necessary?  laptop?  tablet?


----------



## mac336

anyone know where I can get an ODAC with RCA in?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> anyone know where I can get an ODAC with RCA in?


 
  You cant, that was one of the design decisions made by Nwavguy when i started planning the odac. It only has USB input, no SPDIF inputs at all.


----------



## mac336

what about a 3.5mm in and using an RCA-3.5mm adapter
   
  its not ideal, but would that compromise the signal to anything noticible?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> what about a 3.5mm in and using an RCA-3.5mm adapter
> 
> its not ideal, but would that compromise the signal to anything noticible?


 
   
  Im afraid you might be confused, this isnt a headphone amp. this is just a Digital to Analog Converter. The only way to input a digital signal to this particular DAC is through the USB interface


----------



## sorue

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> ^My brief discussion with Anax proves this being correct.


 

 So, what tracks was he using with the ODAC?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sorue said:


> Sounds like a case of the DAC being too revealing of poorly mastered content, perhaps.


 
   
  No, my PWD and HD800s kill the rig I'm using w/ the ODAC.  See below (all Wav btw).


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





lff said:


> Huzzah! That makes sense! My USB cable has a ferrite choke.


 
   
  Sweet, let me try that.
   
  Quote: 





sorue said:


> So, what tracks was he using with the ODAC?


 
   
  Shakti - La Dance Du Bonheur
   
  Spyro Gyra - Groovin' for Grover
   
  Tony Rice - Fiddler Medley
   
  Green Day - American Idiot
   
  Feist - Mushaboom
   
  Gypsy Kings - Passion
   
  Butthole Surfers - Let's Talk about Cars
   
  Godsmack - Whatever/Voodoo
   
  Eagles - Hotel California (Hell Freezes over)
   
  Carole King and James Taylor - Fire and Rain
   
  Lionel Richie - Stuck on You
   
  Bread - Baby I'm A want You
   
  Sublime - What I Got (Reprise)/Santeria
   
  Bobby McFerrin - Bang!Zoom/Friends
   
  Kool & the Gang - Ladies Night
   
  Commodores - Nightshift
   
  Grandmaster Flash & Melle Mel - White Lines
   
  Tori Amos - Little Amsterdam
   
  Madonna - Holiday/La Isla Bonita/Lucky Star
   
  Hall and Oates - I Can't Go for That
   
  Daft Punk - Recognizer/Sea of Simulation
   
  Sacrosanct Toucan - Overdream
   
  Various other binaural recordings and test tones, etc.


----------



## muad

Theres a possible fix... and if it doesn't fix the wubwub sound it minimizes the buffer lag with wasapi, so even at 1 sec the delay is non existent. Supposedly the later versions of foobar are having small issues with wasapi 2, but switching to wasapi beta 3, 4 or 5 fixes the problem. Im running 5 right now and was pleasantly surprised to find the lag improvements. As well you can switch playback modes on the fly... useful for comparing audio equipment 
   
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=94907
   
   
   
  Quote: 





0o0o0o said:


> Playing music through my ODAC with Foobar + wasapi output and on 3 occasions so far, strange electronic noise starts starts invading the sound. It disappears after stopping playback but it is annoying when it does occur. The noise itself is rather difficult to describe and isn't like any other electronic interference I've heard before. Only thing I can compare it to is (I'm not joking here) is a dubstep track's beat. Wubwubwubwub. lol...
> 
> Edit: Ok just happened again as I was scrolling with my mouse. Guessing I've got the buffer in Foobar set too low. Annoying having a delay between input and playback though.


----------



## Br777

O2 amp, Odac - i dont believe i'll ever use any other gear unless there is some extreme development in musical technology.  
   
  Personally, having at least sampled some of the best gear around, and having done my best to compare some of it, (admittedly blind testing was not a possibility), there is just no way i would say anything has sounded better.. colored certainly, worse certainly, but not better, and usually not even as good, and a HECK of a lot more expensive. 
   
  NwAvGuy has outright convinced me of his method of objectivity, and science as the end all be all in what makes a solid music system.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





br777 said:


> NwAvGuy has outright convinced me of his method of objectivity, and science as the end all be all in what makes a solid music system.


 
   
  Amen.  Hallelujah!


----------



## vkvedam

People
   
  Is the ODAC compatible with iPad camera connection kit? Has anyone tested this outputting 24/96 through USB?
   
  Thanks....


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> what about a 3.5mm in and using an RCA-3.5mm adapter
> 
> its not ideal, but would that compromise the signal to anything noticible?


 
  You are very very very confused


----------



## 0o0o0o

Quote: 





muad said:


> Theres a possible fix... and if it doesn't fix the wubwub sound it minimizes the buffer lag with wasapi, so even at 1 sec the delay is non existent. Supposedly the later versions of foobar are having small issues with wasapi 2, but switching to wasapi beta 3, 4 or 5 fixes the problem. Im running 5 right now and was pleasantly surprised to find the lag improvements. As well you can switch playback modes on the fly... useful for comparing audio equipment
> 
> http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=94907


 
  Yeah, a quick google search after I made my post led me to the beta versions. No issues so far.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You are very very very confused


 
   
  Lot's of us are confused. That's why we're here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jk.
   
  I love the odac, but decided to keep the bifrost. Taking offers.


----------



## proton007

Got my ODAC today, plugged it in just now, and....wow...there is a clear difference compared to onboard laptop audio. Everything is clear, even minute details, all this with a not-so-great Senn HD239.
  I even think it may have surpassed iPod audio, but not sure unless I do a proper comparison.


----------



## fenderf4i

Is the Bifrost as dead silent over USB with it's noise floor as the ODAC?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> Is the Bifrost as dead silent over USB with it's noise floor as the ODAC?


 
   
  Yes, every bit as so. I have been listening to bifrost and odac for several days. It's not easy to get your ears around the subtlety of the differences. After three days of listening, I would give the nod to the bifrost by a hair. The sound stage is a touch wider and the instrument separation and "layering of sound" both a touch better also. I have to go back and forth several times and really listen for the difference. 
   
  Odac is a really good dac and goes head to head with the bifrost. Both are great!!


----------



## LoveKnight

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Yes, every bit as so. I have been listening to bifrost and odac for several days. It's not easy to go your ears around the subtlety of the differences. After three days of listening, I would give the nod to the bifrost by a hair. The sound stage is a touch wider and the instrument separation and "layering of sound" both a touch better also. I have to go back and forth several times and really listen for the difference.
> 
> Odac is a really good dac and goes head to head with the bifrost. Both are great!!


 

 Thanks and I just went to Schiit and found out Bifrost is over $300 but ODAC is $150. ODAC is really a good DAC at good bucks. I only have a laptop and want everything is portable as possible. I am going to buy a ODAC and a C421.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Thanks and I just went to Schiit and found out Bifrost is over $300 but ODAC is $150. ODAC is really a good DAC at good bucks. I only have a laptop and want everything is portable as possible. I am going to buy a ODAC and a C421.


 
   
  Looks like a good pairing to me!!


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





matttcg said:


>


 
  Does your ODAC have both 3.5mm and RCA for line-out?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Does your ODAC have both 3.5mm and RCA for line-out?


 
   
  Depends who you order it from.  The JDS is 3.5mm only.  Someone else was selling on in a larger case with RCAs but I don't remember the company.


----------



## micmacmo

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Depends who you order it from.  The JDS is 3.5mm only.  Someone else was selling on in a larger case with RCAs but I don't remember the company.


 
  facebook.com/AudioPoutine


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





micmacmo said:


> facebook.com/AudioPoutine


 
  Yep, just wanted to double check if it was a RCA line out before i make the purchase.


----------



## sphinxvc

So you have to have a facebook to order from that guy?


----------



## fenderf4i

His page should be accessible without a FB account. All the ordering is done in a Google spreadsheet. Fantastic guy to deal with.


----------



## willmax

jono454 said:


> Does your ODAC have both 3.5mm and RCA for line-out?




Headnhifi have an ODAC option that can have both 3.5 + RCA connections in a small enclosure. Check this site for pictures and more details:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/head-n-hifi-walter/211577-odac-european-worldwide-pre-orders-17.html#post3067236


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Yes, every bit as so. I have been listening to bifrost and odac for several days. It's not easy to get your ears around the subtlety of the differences. After three days of listening, I would give the nod to the bifrost by a hair. The sound stage is a touch wider and the instrument separation and "layering of sound" both a touch better also. I have to go back and forth several times and really listen for the difference.
> 
> Odac is a really good dac and goes head to head with the bifrost. Both are great!!


 

 This was my experience comparing the two as well.  Although I attributed the ever so slight edge i thought heard from the bifrost to subjectivity, as my tests were not blind.


----------



## alphaphoenix

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Headnhifi have an ODAC option that can have both 3.5 + RCA connections in a small enclosure. Check this site for pictures and more details:
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/head-n-hifi-walter/211577-odac-european-worldwide-pre-orders-17.html#post3067236


 
   
   
  From the pictures it looks like one or the other, not both   The one on the right is the same as the far left with different color enclosure.  The middle has the 1/8 output.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


sphinxvc said:


> Same here too actually, it worked fine on my home rig, but when I took it to work last week it simply stopped working.  If I left it alone for a few minutes it would pick up but then after a bit go out again.  Confusing to say the least, just like Anax said.


 
   
  It happened again but this time I was home and was able to isolate it to the O2, not the ODAC.  Might just be in need of a charge.  For you long-time O2 owners, does the LED still light when the battery is too low to amplify?
   
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> No, my PWD and HD800s kill the rig I'm using w/ the ODAC.  See below (all Wav btw).


 
   
  What?  And what rig is that exactly?  (Your signature is just a list of components, unless I'm missing something)
   
  Have you tried...
   
  PWD > S7 > HD800
  vs.
  ODAC > S7 > HD800
   
  ...or...
   
  PWD > O2 > HD800
  vs.
  ODAC > O2 > HD800
   
  ...opinion?
   
   
  So...now that I have my HD800s back and have done some preliminary listening, I'll say that the ODAC is a little beast!  It's extracting pretty much what's on the recording on a topical level, and that in itself an achievement given it's price.  But there are a few subtleties that I'm not ready to opine on yet.  Subtleties like ambiance, and to a lesser degree: stage and imaging.  All of those elements (to me) lend to how natural tracks feel  I can't really point out what exactly is missing on the ODAC compared to the Zodiac but on some recordings I feel the Zodiac has been coming off a little more natural, with ambiance proper.  The ODAC very slightly less so.  Overall very happy with my purchase so far.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote:  
   
  I was responding to the idea that I've just discovered flaws in my recordings as if somehow the ODAC was some sort of revelation compared to the gear I already own.  Most of my impressions have been using the UHA6S via PWD/ODAC/Nokia N8>UHA6S Cirrus DAC w/ UERM.
   
  I've tried all the above except the O2 as it's the third most transparent amp I own behind the UHA6S and Super 7 so there's no point.  A friend is using it at the moment since I don't listen to it.  I've said everything I'm ever going to say about that amp so there's nothing more to add.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I was responding to the idea that I've just discovered flaws in my recordings as if somehow the ODAC was some sort of revelation compared to the gear I already own.  Most of my impressions have been using the UHA6S via PWD/ODAC/Nokia N8>UHA6S Cirrus DAC w/ UERM.
> 
> I've tried all the above except the O2 as it's the third most transparent amp I own behind the UHA6S and Super 7 so there's no point.  A friend is using it at the moment since I don't listen to it.  I've said everything I'm ever going to say about that amp so there's nothing more to add.


 
   
  I see, but I wasn't really interested in your opinion of the amp.  I've read, and participated in that lengthy O2 thread out there.  From what I recall you and I pretty much have the same stance on the amp (as in we don't really agree with the congregation 100%).  Was more interested in the PWD and ODAC comparison (however preliminary) with whatever amp fits the bill and drives the HD800s.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I see, but I wasn't really interested in your opinion of the amp.


 
   
  Well you actually named it, so.....
   
  I'll have more on the ODAC/PWD > S7 > HD800 later.  I hear the differences already w/ the portable rig mentioned, the HD800 rig will amplify it.  I do want to sort the issues I've had w/ the ODAC first though so I can get a consistent point of reference.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> From the pictures it looks like one or the other, not both   The one on the right is the same as the far left with different color enclosure.  The middle has the 1/8 output.


 
  Your are right about the pictures and about Headnhifi not selling an ODAC with both outputs together as a product, however they do suply the back plate and RCA connectors as a DIY kit to add to their Standalone 3.5 ODAC. Please have a look over at that DIYaudio thread for more details on this, but I'm pretty sure they do.


----------



## BleaK

I am monitoring this thread, subscribed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 More impressions please!


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I do want to sort the issues I've had w/ the ODAC first though so I can get a consistent point of reference.


 
   
  Alright.


----------



## ClieOS

Just got my ODAC from the mail. What a great sounding USB DAC.


----------



## vkvedam

^ Waiting for your impressions....


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> It happened again but this time I was home and was able to isolate it to the O2, not the ODAC.  Might just be in need of a charge.  For you long-time O2 owners, does the LED still light when the battery is too low to amplify?


 
   
  Yes, the light will stay on.  That's thrown me for a loop once or twice.

  BG


----------



## sphinxvc

Thanks.


----------



## calipilot227

Anyone compared the ODAC with the Emotiva XDA-1? I'm curious as they're very close in price, and the XDA-1 offers coaxial and optical inputs as well as USB.


----------



## sphinxvc

Also noticing some small differences in timbre today.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> Yes, the light will stay on.  That's thrown me for a loop once or twice.
> 
> BG


 
   
  For me it was there, and then off. The amp shuts down if the batteries are too low on power, I think.


----------



## bellsprout

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Anyone compared the ODAC with the Emotiva XDA-1? I'm curious as they're very close in price, and the XDA-1 offers coaxial and optical inputs as well as USB.


 
  Emotiva XDA-1 does only up to 24/48 on USB


----------



## seaweed

I'd like to second, er.. third the observation that the ODAC is very close to the Bifrost. At least in detail extraction. But they do sound different. The Bifrost has a smoother, richer, fuller sound. The downside I find is there is a loss of instrument transients and attack with this DAC.
   
  I also find the ODAC's treble to be pretty hot and maybe even a little grainy as well, leading to fatigue. I'm debating on returning it for this reason as well. I may just keep both as long as my wife doesn't find out. The DacMagic 100 had a very sweet detailed treble, but I returned it to try the Bifrost and don't have it on hand to compare.
   
  If any of you fallow John Darko's reviews, he sates that a lot of ESS Sabre Dacs can have a piercing treble (Check out the KingRex USB Dac). In his words, he states it "Has too mutch metal in its teeth". Id say this holds true for the ODAC. The Bifrost, he claims has a lot of "connective tissue" and sounds more like a "Humid summer morning". I find these poetic analogies pretty accurate. So, Maybe it is the DAC chip does play a big role, not just implementation.
   
  I should also add im listening through a pair of Totem Mites and an Emotiva amp,in nearfield setup. So even through speakers I'm finding the same impressions as everyone else I think.
   
  Jason


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





seaweed said:


> I'd like to second, er.. third the observation that the ODAC is very close to the Bifrost. At least in detail extraction. But they do sound different. The Bifrost has a smoother, richer, fuller sound. The downside I find is there is a loss of instrument transients and attack with this DAC.
> 
> I also find the ODAC's treble to be pretty hot and maybe even a little grainy as well, leading to fatigue. I'm debating on returning it for this reason as well. I may just keep both as long as my wife doesn't find out. The DacMagic 100 had a very sweet detailed treble, but I returned it to try the Bifrost and don't have it on hand to compare.
> 
> Jason


 
   
  although i couldnt compare side by side, i THINK my experience is like yours.  the Bifrost seemed a little smoother and the treble slightly less hot but again, i didnt get to side by side it.  overall though the ODAC for its price, is very good.


----------



## wushuliu

Just read NwAvGuy's entry on ferrite choking having a measurable improvement then of course walks it back with the blind test card. So maybe folks can compare performance with usb/ferrite vs non and report what difference they hear to see if that is part of the treble/digititis question. JDS should have shipped with the ferrite, no reason not to if the measurements are indeed better with it.


----------



## Mako321

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Just read NwAvGuy's entry on ferrite choking having a measurable improvement then of course walks it back with the blind test card. So maybe folks can compare performance with usb/ferrite vs non and report what difference they hear to see if that is part of the treble/digititis question. JDS should have shipped with the ferrite, no reason not to if the measurements are indeed better with it.


 
  I received my ODAC from JDS today and the USB cable in the package did have a ferrite.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





mako321 said:


> I received my ODAC from JDS today and the USB cable in the package did have a ferrite.


 
  Weird. Mine didn't.


----------



## willmax

wushuliu said:


> Weird. Mine didn't.




Mine didn't neither. I thought this was really strange coming from JDS Labs since they don't usually cut corners, bearing in mind the ferrite choke was Nwavguy's recommendation.


----------



## mikeaj

I don't have an ODAC myself to look at, but there are definitely filtering components and regulators on board according to the pictures and diagram.  A ferrite choke on the USB cable is going to help, but it doesn't really seem to be such a big deal.  I wonder how much measurable improvements there are—I mean, 0.1 dB or so lower noise floor is measurable and would be a repeatable result on that setup, probably, so let's not make too much of a fuss here.  I guess it would depend on the computer being used, and the difference may be a decent amount more than 0.1 dB, but still...
   
  It's probably a red herring.  It doesn't seem to me like the kinds of descriptions people are giving about the sound quality match what would be expected from having a ferrite bead or not, but then again, I'm not exactly a whiz on DAC design or any analog electronics.
   
  But if somebody wants to do some listening or tests with and without, that may be interesting.


----------



## willmax

I've been using my ODAC connecting straight to my Active Monitor speakers, I went and connected the ODAC to the O2 amp then to the speakers and the volume level was actually much lower, for instance the O2 colume was at 12:00 and it was still lower than what I was getting through the ODAC. 
  The same does not happen when I'm listening to headphones, like the Denons for instance, can anyone tell me why this happens?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





seaweed said:


> I'd like to second, er.. third the observation that the ODAC is very close to the Bifrost. At least in detail extraction. But they do sound different. The Bifrost has a smoother, richer, fuller sound. The downside I find is there is a loss of instrument transients and attack with this DAC.
> 
> I also find the ODAC's treble to be pretty hot and maybe even a little grainy as well, leading to fatigue. I'm debating on returning it for this reason as well. I may just keep both as long as my wife doesn't find out. The DacMagic 100 had a very sweet detailed treble, but I returned it to try the Bifrost and don't have it on hand to compare.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This impression seems accurate to me and very much reflects my own observations of the odac and bifrost. Particularly the comments on the treble between the two and somewhat fatiguing nature of the odac. Pretty much right on IMO...


----------



## evanft

I don't find the ODAC fatiguing at all. I don't hear overemphasized treble at all.


----------



## MattTCG

It could be a matter of your ears adjusting to it. For me, it was a comparison between the odac and the bifrost that left me with the impression that the treble was a little hot and somewhat fatiguing.


----------



## chrislangley4253

your ears adjusting, and the headphones themselves are likely the culprits.


----------



## spekkio

So I'm wondering, even though it's been said not to, does it make a difference if one runs earphones through the odac directly without an amp? Does one really need an amp?


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> your ears adjusting, and the headphones themselves are likely the culprits.


 
  Nope. Some people find the odac hot for a reason. You must not have read some of the above posts or links related to it. Luckily I found a means to remedy it and am enjoying it now. But with usb-only power from my PC the odac is underwhelming (again I use speakers not headphones).


----------



## MikeW

yes, you really need an amp. No it's not ok to directly drive headphones from the odac.


----------



## MikeW

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Nope. Some people find the odac hot for a reason. You must not have read some of the above posts or links related to it. Luckily I found a means to remedy it and am enjoying it now. But with usb-only power from my PC the odac is underwhelming (again I use speakers not headphones).


 

 I suspect many things may effect this, do you use powered hub? how good is your power supply? Is it a laptop? do you use a power conditioner? how good is the mobo's usb power filtering? on and on and on. an external power solution in some cases may make a dramatic difference, and no difference in others.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





willmax said:


> I've been using my ODAC connecting straight to my Active Monitor speakers, I went and connected the ODAC to the O2 amp then to the speakers and the volume level was actually much lower, for instance the O2 colume was at 12:00 and it was still lower than what I was getting through the ODAC.
> The same does not happen when I'm listening to headphones, like the Denons for instance, can anyone tell me why this happens?


 
  why do you have the ODAC hooked up to an O2 then to your active speakers?
   
  just hook up the ODAC straight to the ACTIVE speakers


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





spekkio said:


> So I'm wondering, even though it's been said not to, does it make a difference if one runs earphones through the odac directly without an amp? Does one really need an amp?


 
   
  depends on the headphones.  If you have easy to drive headphones, then I don't see any problem running them straight from the ODAC.  You can always do some comparisons to how the headphones sound being driven through your computer headphone jack, ODAC, and amp just to see any possible improvement. 
   
   
   
   
  I do not find treble to be fatiguing at all listening through my HE-500 with the ODAC.  I found ODAC very very similar to bifrost; but harshness or fatigue was nonexistent in my tests (and my ears are pretty sensitive to any harshness in the treble)


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Mine didn't neither. I thought this was really strange coming from JDS Labs since they don't usually cut corners, bearing in mind the ferrite choke was Nwavguy's recommendation.


 
   
  Most ODACs shipped with ferrite equipped USB cables. All future orders will only include gold plated, ferrite equipped cords. We're not trying to cut corners at all. Truth is, we ran out of cables for a few days and decided to ship ODACs with an alternative USB cable that _was_ in stock (unfortunately no ferrite). The cables were provided free...
   
  If you ordered an assembled ODAC and received one of these cheaper cables, contact us with your order # and we can ship out a ferrite cable. 
   
   
   


maverickronin said:


> Depends who you order it from.  The JDS is 3.5mm only.  Someone else was selling on in a larger case with RCAs but I don't remember the company.


 
   
  We'll at least offer DIY endplates with RCA jacks (soon), but ODACs preassembled with RCA's didn't make sense for the first batch.
   
  1) RCA and 3.5mm jacks will provide the same performance, since either output method must be wired to the same line output header on the ODAC. If anything, the 3.5mm pads on the ODAC PCB provide the shortest path with lowest inductance. You might want to ask Voldemort, but in my quick engineering opinion, there should be no performance difference.
   
  2) RCA jacks would add 5 minutes of assembly time to each unit. Not good when you're trying to ship hundreds.
   
  3) Most ODAC users connect the DAC to a 3.5mm equipped headphone amp. RCA is a less popular connection for headphone amps.
   
  Considering the above, a 3.5mm to RCA cable is the easiest solution: Same performance, no production hurdles, and therefore lower cost.
   
   


alphaphoenix said:


> Hmmm.  My JDS Labs ODAC, which I received on Friday experienced something similar where it appears the USB cable connection cut out for a second or two until I touched and wiggled the connection.   I hope we didn't receive a bad batch.  I need to utilize it more if it rears its ugly head again.


 
   
  It's not a bad batch. We've tested every unit and only identified 1 bad ODAC board (defective R channel). So far, all other issues have been caused by operating system glitches or cable/power problems. One customer in Norway reported that his ODAC produces odd distortion when another digital audio device is connected to the same USB hub. If you're having trouble:
   
  -Try a different USB cable, with ferrite
  -Try a powered USB hub
  -Switch to a different USB port on the computer
  -Unplug other DACs from the computer
   
   


kayk said:


> So I'm totally sold on getting the ODAC with the exception of the case; it's not the correct size and it has a few inches of empty space inside it? As much as I hate waiting, I'd prefer to wait until these revised enclosures come out so the ODAC doesn't have to be unnecessarily larger than it should. Is there an ETA on when these new enclosures are expected to be used for the ODAC?


 
   
  Samples of the custom length ODAC case arrived last week. The production batch should arrive alongside the second batch of ODAC boards, 2-3 weeks from today.
   
  The item page will be updated with case information once we have a firm ship date, and we'll send out an email to give you guys a choice (49mm or 95mm length).


----------



## 0o0o0o

Something quite strange I've noticed the last two nights: My JDSLabs ODAC seems to emit a high pitched sound after I power down my PC. I initially thought the sound was coming from my screen, but putting my ear up to the ODAC's enclosure the noise definitely becomes louder.
   
  Yes, if you didn't pick it up yet the sound is coming from the _actual _ODAC, not the output signal.
   
  The sound disappears if I remove the USB cable and returns when I plug it back in. I honestly haven't done much testing with different ports/cables but will do some troubleshooting soon.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





0o0o0o said:


> Something quite strange I've noticed the last two nights: My JDSLabs ODAC seems to emit a high pitched sound after I power down my PC. I initially thought the sound was coming from my screen, but putting my ear up to the ODAC's enclosure the noise definitely becomes louder.
> 
> Yes, if you didn't pick it up yet the sound is coming from the _actual _ODAC, not the output signal.
> 
> The sound disappears if I remove the USB cable and returns when I plug it back in. I honestly haven't done much testing with different ports/cables but will do some troubleshooting soon.


 
   
  Sounds like your PC is putting out some odd frequency over the USB power when it's turned off and it's making the ferrite in the ODAC's power filtering circuit vibrate.


----------



## 0o0o0o

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Sounds like your PC is putting out some odd frequency over the USB power when it's turned off and it's making the ferrite in the ODAC's power filtering circuit vibrate.


 
  Possibility of it blowing up in my face? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'll add testing it on another PC to the troubleshooting list.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





0o0o0o said:


> Possibility of it blowing up in my face?


 
   
  Not really.  It's just AC plus something ferromagnetic = mechanical vibration = noise.  It's not any different from why monitors can make noise.


----------



## audionewbi

Just a random question, does the RCA output makes a difference in terms of SQ? I am thinking of buying an ODAC stand alone to use with the Bravo ocean. Thanks guys


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Most ODACs shipped with ferrite equipped USB cables. All future orders will only include gold plated, ferrite equipped cords. We're not trying to cut corners at all. Truth is, we ran out of cables for a few days and decided to ship ODACs with an alternative USB cable that _was_ in stock (unfortunately no ferrite). The cables were provided free...
> 
> If you ordered an assembled ODAC and received one of these cheaper cables, contact us with your order # and we can ship out a ferrite cable.


 
   
  Thanks John, that is my case I'll contact you via email soon. BTW congrats on the new office and for all the hard work put into producing great products for the community.


----------



## chrislangley4253

so uh,
   
  All that rambling I did about how i thought my odac was being underpowered by my laptop was nonsense. It turns out it was the usb cable, of all things! I was getting some decently audible distortion in the left channel after a brief period of playing music.. The cable I was using was about 3 or 4 feet long, with a ferrite not sure where the cable was from. now i'm using a pretty lengthy (6 or so feet) monoprice cable, with a ferrite  and I haven't heard distortion yet!

 Will update if it starts acting up again
  
  To those hearing distortion or something they don't like, try a different cable and then try a different computer.
   
  I should also note that I got a faulty Fiio L2 the other day too.. My luck is just terrible on cables lately.


----------



## alphaphoenix

Same here. Replaced the cable and now I'm golden.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





alphaphoenix said:


> Same here. Replaced the cable and now I'm golden.


 
  I wonder if there is something about our bad cables in particular or the odac that makes it picky about cables..


----------



## muzzer

I received my Odac last week and to be honest I am pretty dissapointed, to my ears it sounds thin and edgy/harsh and typically "digital" my iBasso D1 in dac only mode into my Schitt Asgard/AKG701's pisses all over it. I have tried Pure Music and Decibel in Hog mode with the same results in fact with Decibel there are annoying clicks when playing music that I don't get with the iBasso.
  Looks like I have wasted £100 that will teach me to buy pre hyped untested kit.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





muzzer said:


> I received my Odac last week and to be honest I am pretty dissapointed, to my ears it sounds thin and edgy/harsh and typically "digital" my iBasso D1 in dac only mode into my Schitt Asgard/AKG701's pisses all over it. I have tried Pure Music and Decibel in Hog mode with the same results in fact with Decibel there are annoying clicks when playing music that I don't get with the iBasso.
> Looks like I have wasted £100 that will teach me to buy pre hyped untested kit.


 
   
  Did you order from Jds Labs? There were some units shipped out with a usb cable that was not suitable. FYI.
   
  Mine sounded good and went toe to toe with the Schitt Bifrost at a fraction of the cost.


----------



## fenderf4i

muzzer said:


> I received my Odac last week and to be honest I am pretty dissapointed, to my ears it sounds thin and edgy/harsh and typically "digital" my iBasso D1 in dac only mode into my Schitt Asgard/AKG701's pisses all over it. I have tried Pure Music and Decibel in Hog mode with the same results in fact with Decibel there are annoying clicks when playing music that I don't get with the iBasso.
> Looks like I have wasted £100 that will teach me to buy pre hyped untested kit.




You're doing something wrong.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I wonder if there is something about our bad cables in particular or the odac that makes it picky about cables..


 
   
  Which cable did you get? I got the monoprice usb cable, pretty good so far.
  But a bad cable will obviously cause problems, since it carries power and data.


----------



## Architeuthis

I was getting distortion, I think maybe just when using StealthAudioPlayer, but increasing the 'BufferSizeInMilliseconds' number seems to have solved that issue.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Did you order from Jds Labs? There were some units shipped out with a usb cable that was not suitable. FYI.
> 
> Mine sounded good and went toe to toe with the Schitt Bifrost at a fraction of the cost.


 
   
  The few non-ferrite cables that shipped were tested with ODAC. We wouldn't have shipped them at all if there was an audible difference. Voldemort has covered this quite well. While there is a measurable improvement, ODAC already has onboard ferrite regulation on its +5V rail, so a USB ferrite cable shouldn't radically transform the way you perceive the DAC. More ferrites further reduce unwanted interference. With or without a USB ferrite, the +5V supply and differential +/-D data should be intact, and thus, sound the same.
   
  As "chrislangley4253" has pointed out, bad cables are surprisingly common. We see around 1% arrive defective (USB, LOD, mini-to-mini, other). I wish more could be done to prevent this, but all we can do is replace bad cables. In other words, even a nice ferrite equipped USB cable can be defective. A bad cable will surely cause distortion and/or sporadic output behavior.
   
  Again: If you received a non-ferrite cable cable from us, we'll send a free ferrite USB cable to ease your mind.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





muzzer said:


> I received my Odac last week and to be honest I am pretty dissapointed, to my ears it sounds thin and edgy/harsh and typically "digital" my iBasso D1 in dac only mode into my Schitt Asgard/AKG701's pisses all over it.


 
   
  doubt it


----------



## Twinster

I also own a SueezeBox Touch and I'm curious to know how you have connected the ODAC to it. Via USB? I always thought it was for media input only.




wdahm519 said:


> So here's an interesting problem.  Its a problem on the PC side, not the ODAC.  My ODAC works perfectly on my Squeezebox Touch at home and with my laptop.
> 
> At work though (Windows 7, 64bit system, using USB) I plug in the ODAC and it will detect it.  Then a minute later with nothing physically changing, it will act like it was removed from the computer.  Nothing will play through it and it won't show up in my devices menu.
> 
> Whats up with that?


----------



## Draygonn

twinster said:


> I also own a SueezeBox Touch and I'm curious to know how you have connected the ODAC to it. Via USB? I always thought it was for media input only.


Squeezebox Touch's enhanced digital output app allows 192k output through the USB


----------



## Twinster

That is great. Thank you for the info. 

No problem with providing enough power to the ODAC? 




draygonn said:


> Squeezebox Touch's enhanced digital output app allows 192k output through the USB


----------



## chrislangley4253

I'd just like to say that the distortion from the bad cable was pretty obvious. I knew something was *wrong*. I wouldn't worry about having a bad cable unless you hear something bad


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I'd just like to say that the distortion from the bad cable was pretty obvious. I knew something was *wrong*. I wouldn't worry about having a bad cable unless you hear something bad


 
   
  So you changed the cable? How's it now?
  Sry but I haven't had bad experience with USB cables so far, most of them come with the devices I buy.


----------



## muzzer

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> You're doing something wrong.


 
  No I am not, I have tried the cable it came with and a couple of other usb cables I have lying around with the same result, I am not going to risk paying out any more for a Audiophool cable.
  Please be my guest and point out to me where I am going wrong.
  I purchased the dac from a reseller here in the UK.


----------



## sorue

Quote: 





muzzer said:


> No I am not, I have tried the cable it came with and a couple of other usb cables I have lying around with the same result, I am not going to risk paying out any more for a Audiophool cable.
> Please be my guest and point out to me where I am going wrong.
> I purchased the dac from a reseller here in the UK.


 

 What test tracks and music did you use with the ODAC? It's ruthlessly revealing, so that may be the 'problem'.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> The few non-ferrite cables that shipped were tested with ODAC. We wouldn't have shipped them at all if there was an audible difference. Voldemort has covered this quite well. While there is a measurable improvement, ODAC already has onboard ferrite regulation on its +5V rail, so a USB ferrite cable shouldn't radically transform the way you perceive the DAC. More ferrites further reduce unwanted interference. With or without a USB ferrite, the +5V supply and differential +/-D data should be intact, and thus, sound the same.
> 
> As "chrislangley4253" has pointed out, bad cables are surprisingly common. We see around 1% arrive defective (USB, LOD, mini-to-mini, other). I wish more could be done to prevent this, but all we can do is replace bad cables. In other words, even a nice ferrite equipped USB cable can be defective. A bad cable will surely cause distortion and/or sporadic output behavior.
> 
> Again: If you received a non-ferrite cable cable from us, we'll send a free ferrite USB cable to ease your mind.


 
   
   
  I will have to go back and check the source, but wasn't it published that JDS "ran out" the usb ferrite cable and that was the reason for the switch to the non-ferrite cable? I wouldn't call 1% surprisingly common either. Not to rake anyone of the coals here at all. I own a business. I've made a mistake or two along the years, and I've always found the best way to make amends is to just say, "hey, we made a mistake. Please give us the opportunity to fix it."


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> So you changed the cable? How's it now?
> Sry but I haven't had bad experience with USB cables so far, most of them come with the devices I buy.


 
   
  Quote: 





muzzer said:


> No I am not, I have tried the cable it came with and a couple of other usb cables I have lying around with the same result, I am not going to risk paying out any more for a Audiophool cable.
> Please be my guest and point out to me where I am going wrong.
> I purchased the dac from a reseller here in the UK.


 
  Nobody told you to buy an expensive USB cable, just to try more than one. The cable I am using was very cheap.
   
  I don't remember what exactly your complaint was with the sound but
   
  Your amp could be throwing everything off
  your PC could be throwing everything off
  your music could be poor quality or poorly mastered
  your headphones could be too bright or revealing or detailed on the high end

 You have told us very little. Therefore, it seems like you have tried very little to figure out what the problem is. Many people are confirming that this dac sounds pretty good to them. You are the minority. Either try to fix it or stop complaining.

 Good luck
  Quote: 





sorue said:


> What test tracks and music did you use with the ODAC? It's ruthlessly revealing, so that may be the 'problem'.


 
  +100, Also what headphones


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I will have to go back and check the source, but wasn't it published that JDS "ran out" the usb ferrite cable and that was the reason for the switch to the non-ferrite cable? I wouldn't call 1% surprisingly common either. Not to rake anyone of the coals here at all. I own a business. I've made a mistake or two along the years, and I've always found the best way to make amends is to just say, "hey, we made a mistake. Please give us the opportunity to fix it."


 
   
  See post #324.


----------



## Kayk

Would I be hindering myself by plugging the ODAC into a USB hub? The advantage is that the hub is powered and I wouldn't run into insufficient power issues compared to plugging into a closed macbook. The disadvantage is that it's in a hub, and hypothetically there may be some kind of interference or data congestion along the way.
   
  At the moment it's directly plugged into the computer, but I noticed that it works through the hub too. Can't test the difference since I'm at work at the moment and I have to crawl under my desk to switch ports when I am home, making it difficult to compare one way to the other.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> See post #324.


 
   
  Isn't this exactly what I said? Post 324
   
*Most ODACs shipped with ferrite equipped USB cables. All future orders will only include gold plated, ferrite equipped cords. We're not trying to cut corners at all. Truth is, we ran out of cables for a few days and decided to ship ODACs with an alternative USB cable that was in stock (unfortunately no ferrite). The cables were provided free...*
   
*If you ordered an assembled ODAC and received one of these cheaper cables, contact us with your order # and we can ship out a ferrite cable. *


----------



## muzzer

Quote: 





> Your amp could be throwing everything off
> your PC could be throwing everything off
> your music could be poor quality or poorly mastered
> your headphones could be too bright or revealing or detailed on the high end
> ...


 
  My system is Macbook/Pure Music(hogmode&memory play enabled), Schitt Asgard amp/AKG701
  With the O-dac in the loop the sound is edgy and thin though detailed when I replace it with the iBasso the sound is much fuller and weighty without any hardness yet still detailed.
  It does show up poor recordings but the same sonic character is there on high quality rips such as those from Patricia Barber, Holly Cole etc.
  My files are all ripped as AIFF.
  Maybe it needs to burn in I don't know.


----------



## tzjin

That may be your impression of the ODAC sound signature. I know there have been people complaining of how the O2 sounded thin and lifeless as well.


----------



## caracara08

I think what JDS is getting at, is that they did fix it by asking anyone that wants one, to contact them. I have no horse in this race as i didnt purchase my ODAC from John, but im kinda confused on wahts going on here.
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I will have to go back and check the source, but wasn't it published that JDS "ran out" the usb ferrite cable and that was the reason for the switch to the non-ferrite cable? I wouldn't call 1% surprisingly common either. Not to rake anyone of the coals here at all. I own a business. I've made a mistake or two along the years, and I've always found the best way to make amends is to just say, "hey, we made a mistake. Please give us the opportunity to fix it."


 
   
  Quote: 





jseaber said:


> See post #324.


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Isn't this exactly what I said? Post 324
> 
> *Most ODACs shipped with ferrite equipped USB cables. All future orders will only include gold plated, ferrite equipped cords. We're not trying to cut corners at all. Truth is, we ran out of cables for a few days and decided to ship ODACs with an alternative USB cable that was in stock (unfortunately no ferrite). The cables were provided free...*
> 
> *If you ordered an assembled ODAC and received one of these cheaper cables, contact us with your order # and we can ship out a ferrite cable. *


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> You have told us very little. Therefore, it seems like you have tried very little to figure out what the problem is. Many people are confirming that this dac sounds pretty good to them. You are the minority. Either try to fix it or stop complaining.


 
  I think you should pay more attention, he's already given details about his gear. Could it be that he just doesn't like
  what he's hearing. Oh god, that couldn't be the case, right?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I think you should pay more attention, he's already given details about his gear. Could it be that he just doesn't like
> what he's hearing. Oh god, that couldn't be the case, right?


 
  Or maybe you should stop being wise ass, 
   
  He is using the K701's which can be dry and sterile or analytical AFAIK, so the ODAC is probably doing a great job, but it doesn't mean it suits the rig. 
  personally I would go for an amp that would solve the issues of the K701, and use a cleaner source (ODAC) as opposed to a coloured source (iBasso) and a cleaner amp (Schiit.) But thats just me, and the general consensus of a a transparent source.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Or maybe you should stop being wise ass,
> 
> He is using the K701's which can be dry and sterile or analytical AFAIK, so the ODAC is probably doing a great job, but it doesn't mean it suits the rig.
> personally I would go for an amp that would solve the issues of the K701, and use a cleaner source (ODAC) as opposed to a coloured source (iBasso) and a cleaner amp (Schiit.) But thats just me, and the general consensus of a a transparent source.


 
  I disagree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  As far as you know* Well, it's clear, you've never heard them. So maybe you should keep your presumptions to yourself.
  How is the ODAC doing a good job if he finds it thin and edgy/harsh? LOL
   
  My point was you can try to justify why he doesn't find the ODAC appealing, I am just saying is it possible he just plain doesn't like it. No matter what ever optimal gear you tell him to pair it with, again crazy, right?


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





sorue said:


> What test tracks and music did you use with the ODAC? It's ruthlessly revealing, so that may be the 'problem'.


 
  No such objective state as 'ruthlessly revealing'. Revealing is just another way of saying perceived emphasis in upper midrange and higher which could be due to any number of reasons, some good (low noise  floor), some bad (odd order distortion), some debatable (flat frequency response).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I disagree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You are correct, I haven't heard them, an unfortunate side effect of the location in which I reside. 
   
  The point I was trying to make was synergy, and I have done no shortage of reading on the K701, and everyone will agree its not a can for everyone, and when paired wrong it sounds bad.
   
  The simple observation I made is that a worse product may produce much more enjoyable results, because of synergy, but do note, there will be a loss of clarity. 
   
  I'm sure you will agree with this. and thus concludes the discussion.


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





muzzer said:


> My system is Macbook/Pure Music(hogmode&memory play enabled), Schitt Asgard amp/AKG701
> With the O-dac in the loop the sound is edgy and thin though detailed when I replace it with the iBasso the sound is much fuller and weighty without any hardness yet still detailed.
> It does show up poor recordings but the same sonic character is there on high quality rips such as those from Patricia Barber, Holly Cole etc.
> My files are all ripped as AIFF.
> Maybe it needs to burn in I don't know.


 
   
  sounds like you prefer the sound signature of your ibasso over the ODAC
   
  perhaps try some different headphones to see if you really do like the ibasso better, or if its just the AKG/ibasso pairing that you prefer


----------



## Funky-kun

Received the ODAC today, and have been listening to it for the past 2 hours. I am very pleased with my purchase. (got it from Head'n'HiFi)
   
  Win7 recognized it without any problems and foobar config was a breeze. Initial impressions are that the unit is very transparent. Great detailed rendition of highs without any fatigue on my system. (Audio-GD C-2C -> Senn HD650) Cohesive imaging and amazing detail extraction. 
   
  Later this week I'll hopefully have time to A/B it with a Xonar Essence STX and will post detailed comments.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You are correct, I haven't heard them, an unfortunate side effect of the location in which I reside.
> 
> The point I was trying to make was synergy, and I have done no shortage of reading on the K701, and everyone will agree its not a can for everyone, and when paired wrong it sounds bad.
> 
> ...


 
  Well ok, for once you are correct.


----------



## mechgamer123

Anyone tried a/bing this with a 6/7th gen iPod classic?


----------



## sorue

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> No such objective state as 'ruthlessly revealing'. Revealing is just another way of saying perceived emphasis in upper midrange and higher which could be due to any number of reasons, some good (low noise  floor), some bad (odd order distortion), some debatable (flat frequency response).


 

 According to you, at least.
   
  It's not the first time that something (DAC/amp/headphones) measures extremely well on paper with ultra low distortion blablabla, yet can sound thin/lifeless with music.


----------



## audionewbi

After reading all this argument it made me want to buy one just so I can hear what all this argument is about :-D


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> After reading all this argument it made me want to buy one just so I can hear what all this argument is about :-D


 
   
  How many headphones do you have?!


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> How many headphones do you have?!


 
  lol headphone 2, IEM 2, Earbuds 1, in other word not enough


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





muzzer said:


> My system is Macbook/Pure Music(hogmode&memory play enabled), Schitt Asgard amp/AKG701
> With the O-dac in the loop the sound is edgy and thin though detailed when I replace it with the iBasso the sound is much fuller and weighty without any hardness yet still detailed.
> It does show up poor recordings but the same sonic character is there on high quality rips such as those from Patricia Barber, Holly Cole etc.
> My files are all ripped as AIFF.
> Maybe it needs to burn in I don't know.


 
  the odac won't burn in, but your ears might
   
  try a headphone other than the k701. I think k701 is colored and creating this sound you don't like.. Or, just keep using the ibasso, but I definitely think most people will tell you they would imagine it is the ibasso and the k701 that is colored and not the odac.
  Quote: 





mechgamer123 said:


> Anyone tried a/bing this with a 6/7th gen iPod classic?


 
  I haven't, but I don't need to. To put it quite frankly the modern ipod classics are terrible. I am positive the odac would be much better.

 yes, I have listened to both. Yes, I have both in my possession.


----------



## ddcpitt

I own an ODAC and pair it with a C421 (OPA2227).  This is my first external DAC, but I must say it is a vast improvement over the onboard sound on my mobo, at least for me.  I would love an O2, but plan to instead wait for the ODA (Objective Desktop Amplifier) to be released (hopefully this fall).  All in all, for $150 pre-assembled, I don't see how you can go wrong with the ODAC.


----------



## muzzer

Quote: 





> try a headphone other than the k701.


 
  What would you suggest
  Sennheiser HD650?
  Denon ADH-2000?


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





muzzer said:


> What would you suggest
> Sennheiser HD650?
> Denon ADH-2000?


 
   
  both great headphones and i havent followed your inquiry but if you love what you got, maybe its the amp/odac? youre changing your headphones to match your amp/dac signature and i think it hsould be the other way around, but thats just me.


----------



## mmicko

I think this USB isolator + good linear power supply should solve problems with treble distortion and interferences
http://www.circuitsathome.com/adum4160-usb-isolator-assembly-guide
   
  in point 5. of article you can see this picture  http://www.circuitsathome.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/BS_combined.jpg
 Photo shows 1KHz analog calibrator waveforms displayed on Bitscope 310 USB DSO. Signal amplitude from top to bottom changes from 4V to 400mV to 40mV to 4mV p-p. Left column shows waveform with USB port of the instrument isolated, right column waveforms were obtained with instrument directly connected to the same USB port of the same PC. The results can be easily interpreted – while 4V signal looks pretty much the same on both pictures, smaller signals show more and more noise and 4mV signal on directly connected Bitscope is hard to interpret, let alone measure.
   
   
   
  this solution in my opinion will be much better than many USB cables testing ....


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> both great headphones and i havent followed your inquiry but if you love what you got, maybe its the amp/odac? youre changing your headphones to match your amp/dac signature and i think it hsould be the other way around, but thats just me.


 
  You have the most backwards line of thinking IMO

 Transparent gear, colored headphones ftw. Not Colored headphones and colored gear!
   
  Just my .02


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





sorue said:


> According to you, at least.
> 
> It's not the first time that something (DAC/amp/headphones) measures extremely well on paper with ultra low distortion blablabla, yet can sound thin/lifeless with music.


 
  Er, that's kind of what I was getting at...


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> You have the most backwards line of thinking IMO
> 
> Transparent gear, colored headphones ftw. Not Colored headphones and colored gear!
> 
> Just my .02


 
  Meh. Says who? Is there a handbook? Shouldn't it be like speakers, where the transducer should be the most accurate component first and foremost - otherwise HOW WILL YOU KNOW whether your upstream gear is 'transparent'.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Meh. Says who? Is there a handbook? Shouldn't it be like speakers, where the transducer should be the most accurate component first and foremost - otherwise HOW WILL YOU KNOW whether your upstream gear is 'transparent'.


 

 +1 I'm in this boat. I don't think the other boat is wrong either, just our opinions. Both are right and wrong at the same time. I personally subscribe to both sides, just with a slight preference to one. The whole right/wrong is stubborn, and we stand a great chance to learn things by listening to others.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Meh. Says who? Is there a handbook? Shouldn't it be like speakers, where the transducer should be the most accurate component first and foremost - otherwise HOW WILL YOU KNOW whether your upstream gear is 'transparent'.


 
  I did say, in MY opinion. That logic just doesn't make sense to me.

 The transducer should be accurate, if you want an accurate sound, however music reproduction via transducer is a dirty, non-exact science where we sometimes just have to listen to our ears.

 You know that the upstream gear is "transparent" by measuring it with tools and holding it to rules of transparency. No, it's not a guarantee, but it's the best we can do at the moment.
   
  I think there are plenty of people with speakers who think the same way as me, get gear with the goal of transparency and not adding coloration, Speakers according to your taste and what you think sounds right. In fact, I am a person with speakers who applies this logic 
   
  To me, it makes no sense try to match amps to headphones and even lesser sense to try to pick a dac to make your headphones sound balanced, but it does make sense trying to get an amp and dac with little to no coloration and then match your headphones to your preferences. IMO

 Do what you will though  Happy listening either way.


----------



## tzjin

Typically I'd agree that a transparent source going to a transparent amp would be preferable. There are many more headphones than amps, so you have more options in terms of sound signatures. Furthermore, headphones are easier to tune via tips or mods etc.

 I suppose each person is entitled to what works for him or her though.


----------



## fenderf4i

chrislangley4253 said:


> but it does make sense trying to get an amp and dac with little to no coloration and then match your headphones to your preferences. IMO
> 
> 
> Do what you will though  Happy listening either way.




This makes the most sense to me. I don't want 3 colored components, just one, the final one.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> This makes the most sense to me. I don't want 3 colored components, just one, the final one.


 

 This makes sense with headphones that can be run off one single amp --properly driven. It's complete insane to suggest this method with speakers however. Speaker rolling...? yeah right lol. Therefore, if you're using these components outside of that small scope (multiple headphones on one proper amp), getting transparent speakers and choosing your favorite upstream gear is preferable. All of these arguments are still kinda crazy when you introduce this cool technology called "EQ" I know, many are bewildered by the thought of this. Try it, you might like it.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





brunk said:


> This makes sense with headphones that can be run off one single amp --properly driven. It's complete insane to suggest this method with speakers however. Speaker rolling...? yeah right lol. Therefore, if you're using these components outside of that small scope (multiple headphones on one proper amp), getting transparent speakers and choosing your favorite upstream gear is preferable. All of these arguments are still kinda crazy when you introduce this cool technology called "EQ" I know, many are bewildered by the thought of this. Try it, you might like it.


 
   
   


Spoiler: waaay%20way%20way%20OT



 
  Name some speakers that are "transparent". Also, tell me the room conditions that are necessary to achieve said transparency (size, acoustic dampening, bass traps, etc).

 Speaker rolling is what you have to do, if you want to hear several good speakers and how they compare, there is no way around it. Otherwise, do research, buy what you think is best and hope it sounds good when you get it home. If not, do it all over again. Many people go through many, many speakers, trying to find the right pair for their given room and their given ears and their given preferences.

   


   
  EQ is cool. If you are going to EQ, why do you need colored gear?


----------



## chrislangley4253

so, uh... Remember how I thought my usb cable was bad? Turns out the recording was the culprit.. I just picked up the distortion in the left channel again. Sorry guys.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> EQ is cool. If you are going to EQ, why do you need colored gear?


 
  Either you're confused or you need to understand this definition. Which one?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Either you're confused or you need to understand this definition. Which one?


 
  I guess that'd be confused. Enlighten me.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I guess that'd be confused. Enlighten me.


 

 Show me a pair of headphones/speakers with a perfectly flat frequency response, before you state "non colored gear". Once you find the answer, you will have your enlightenment. Transparency is not to be confused with colored. Transparency is lack of distortion, compression, and are able to hear things clearly. Colored is any dip or rise in frequency response from 0db. Neutral (which is a sound signature or "flavor") can take the shape of a straight line, V, or U shape. As long as the sum of all parts equal 0, it's neutral. Your personal hearing may have a bias against one of those shapes, but by definition, it's neutral.


----------



## wushuliu

Just to stir the pot; got hold of a Dragonfly DAC designed entirely by Gordon Rankin. Same chip as odac. Sounds better usb-powered than my odac stock, and about on par
  with my odac using 5v external supply, maybe a little cleaner even. So my PC usb power is not to blame for the odac digititis. Dragonfly $100 more, but then half as small.
  Just sharin'.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Show me a pair of headphones/speakers with a perfectly flat frequency response, before you state "non colored gear". Once you find the answer, you will have your enlightenment. Transparency is not to be confused with colored. Transparency is lack of distortion, compression, and are able to hear things clearly. Colored is any dip or rise in frequency response from 0db.


 
  *sigh*
   
  I think you are the one misunderstanding me. I use my "transparent" ODAC and O2 to listen to my "colored" magnums, and I really enjoy the sound and the pieces of gear. That is all I care to know anymore.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Just to stir the pot; got hold of a Dragonfly DAC designed entirely by Gordon Rankin. Same chip as odac. Sounds better usb-powered than my odac stock, and about on par
> with my odac using 5v external supply, maybe a little cleaner even. So my PC usb power is not to blame for the odac digititis. Dragonfly $100 more, but then half as small.
> Just sharin'.


 
  That just means the dragonfly is better at handling the lower power from your PC, or whatever the problem is. Sounds like a fair thing to gain for 100 dollars.


----------



## muad

I think that nwavguy designed the uncoloured odac/o2 amp so that it would work with all headphones without accentuating the colouration of the headphones. Having synergy with one headphone usually means it wouldn't sound good with another. It's much smarter to have an uncoloured source and amp and then to equalize from a baseline for each headphone. Since I already found my end all headphone (HD650), I just want an affordable system to get the signal unmolested to them... and that's where the o2/odac comes in.
   
  I currently own an audio-gd fun and while it sounds amazing, I do have to question the quality of the signal that reaches the HD650's. From forums that are frequented by less electronically ignorant members the audio-gd stuff seems to have questionable design elements. Maybe in colouring the sound I'm losing something else. I will never know, as I have yet to see any actual measurements beyond the manufacturers.  What I expect from the oda/odac is transparency... and if I can eschew my expectation bias I will get it.
   
  Human perception is flawed...


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I think you are the one misunderstanding me. I use my "transparent" ODAC and O2 to listen to my "colored" magnums, and I really enjoy the sound and the pieces of gear. That is all I care to know anymore.


 

 Ok, I see. That's your opinion, and a valid one. Someone who likes "color" in their DAC/Amp isn't wrong either. It's their opinion. This is what makes audio so great. It's science and art.
   
  Hopefully all of us (myself included) can appreciate this and find more helping and less arguing in the future. The goal we should all help each other achieve, if anything, is transparency and most of all, enjoyment!


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Ok, I see. That's your opinion, and a valid one. Someone who likes "color" in their DAC/Amp isn't wrong either. It's their opinion. This is what makes audio so great. It's science and art.
> 
> Hopefully all of us (myself included) can appreciate this and find more helping and less arguing in the future. The goal we should all help each other achieve, if anything, is transparency and most of all, enjoyment!


 
   
  I"m glad this came to a nice ending. I don't think color in the dac/amp is *wrong* either.. Especially when it comes to speakers, and tube amps. Coloration and distortion can be incredibly euphoric and pleasureable.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I"m glad this came to a nice ending.


 
  See, that wasn't so bad was it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  EDIT: and yes... tube distortion can be most pleasurable, but SS distortion is typically not. I personally like tubes in my 2CH, but not my HeadFi.


----------



## proton007

I'd like to have transparent speakers, but its just too expensive because its difficult to do. 
  DACs and Amps can be made transparent with much less effort/cost.
  But coloration is nice in some cases, and the easiest (cheapest) way to get it is via speakers/headphones.


----------



## audionewbi

*Hey guys this might be a stupid question but here is the dilemma I got. Do i connect the DAC using 3.5mm to 2 x RCA or should I just use the 3.5 to 3.5 mm port? My amp has both 3.5 and RCA input. *


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> I'd like to have transparent speakers, but its just too expensive because its difficult to do.
> DACs and Amps can be made transparent with much less effort/cost.
> But coloration is nice in some cases, and the easiest (cheapest) way to get it is via speakers/headphones.


 
  Try to demo yamaha hm50, I think it might please you if you are after cheap transparent speakers.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Just to stir the pot; got hold of a Dragonfly DAC designed entirely by Gordon Rankin. Same chip as odac. Sounds better usb-powered than my odac stock, and about on par
> with my odac using 5v external supply, maybe a little cleaner even. So my PC usb power is not to blame for the odac digititis. Dragonfly $100 more, but then half as small.
> Just sharin'.


 
   
  How can you compare DACs though?  Isn't the dragonfly using an integrated amp?
   
  I've also heard the dragonfly referenced to the ODAC a few times, is there any known similarity apart from the same chip?  Implementation is everything.


----------



## wushuliu

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> How can you compare DACs though?  Isn't the dragonfly using an integrated amp?
> 
> I've also heard the dragonfly referenced to the ODAC a few times, is there any known similarity apart from the same chip?  Implementation is everything.


 
   
  Yes. Both dacs are connected to a receiver as pre, then to classdaudio cda-224 amp. Sorry I am giving a 2 channel speaker perspective to my posts which really is a different affair. No idea how they compare internally, but Gordon Rankin has a very strong rep when it comes to both dacs and amps. In any case the Dragonfly sounds similar to the odac, just more refined, for lack of a better word. It sounds, really, really good and I have played with a bunch of budget dacs; but like I said this is strictly through speakers. I will bow out of the thread now. The odac was more of a curiosity for me than anything else, and certainly worth the money.


----------



## WiR3D

*ENDING THE TRANSPARENT/COLOURED DEBATE*
   

 ALWAYS use a transparent source/DAC
 for a* coloured headphone* (Denons) you want a transparent and an uncoloured amp.
 for *uncoloured headphone* and sometimes boring, cold, overly analytical headphones (AKG springs to mind) you want a coloured amp (like tubes) to make it musical, especially IME AKGs take on the characteristics of the amp way above its own.
 if you are just after accuracy, uncoloured everything, and don't mention musicality.
   
By doing this, one component is mostly responsible for the difference sound signatures, matching components becomes easier.
*\end discussion.*
   
  and to note, there are oddballs who have success with coloured headphones and amps, (Denon + Woo) but thats just up to you, I still don't agree.


----------



## willmax

Coloured or uncoloured gear I don't know.
   
  All I know is that I'm loving my ODAC driving my Denons D5/7K as well my KRK Rokit 6 Studio Monitors 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## muzzer

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> *Hey guys this might be a stupid question but here is the dilemma I got. Do i connect the DAC using 3.5mm to 2 x RCA or should I just use the 3.5 to 3.5 mm port? My amp has both 3.5 and RCA input. *


 
  I connect with a 3.5mm to 2*RCA cable.


----------



## audionewbi

thx


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Just to stir the pot; got hold of a Dragonfly DAC designed entirely by Gordon Rankin. Same chip as odac. Sounds better usb-powered than my odac stock, and about on par
> with my odac using 5v external supply, maybe a little cleaner even. So my PC usb power is not to blame for the odac digititis. Dragonfly $100 more, but then half as small.
> Just sharin'.


 
   
  I recently tried Jude's Firefly, it was pretty damn impressive.  But at that point I had already pulled the trigger on the ODAC + O2.


----------



## tzjin

Hey Sphinxvc, do you think you could post a comparison when you get your ODAC? Or did you get the combo in one enclosure?


----------



## Sllow

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> ALWAYS use a transparent source/DAC
> 
> for a* coloured headphone* (Denons) you want a transparent and an uncoloured amp.
> for *uncoloured headphone* and sometimes boring, cold, overly analytical headphones (AKG springs to mind) you want a coloured amp (like tubes) to make it musical, especially IME AKGs take on the characteristics of the amp way above its own.


 
  Wrong statements there. There is no uncolored headphones on the market. Every headphone have their dips and accents. And, a truly uncolored headphone with perfectly flat FR would be just unenjoyable to listen, because when perfectly flat and uncolored response enters our ear, it's becomes colored, because sound waves reflecting from the walls of the ear canal,and become colored. Not pleasantly colored, thats for sure. What FR should have a headphone to reach our brain in perfectly flat, uncolored sound? Well, that's another question. I could just post a picture describing it, but everyone would flame me to death yelling "You call this an ideal? What a moron" Etc. 
  If you really interested and got time, then read some books about psychoacoustics, there is an answer in it, and some other funny facts. Like what ear sensitivity to high frequiencies reduces with age. Thats why some old guys find grados pleasing. I just love to know what my Denons are futureproof and would sound even better in future.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





sllow said:


> Wrong statements there. There is no uncolored headphones on the market. Every headphone have their dips and accents. And, a truly uncolored headphone with perfectly flat FR would be just unenjoyable to listen, because when perfectly flat and uncolored response enters our ear, it's becomes colored, because sound waves reflecting from the walls of the ear canal,and become colored. Not pleasantly colored, thats for sure. What FR should have a headphone to reach our brain in perfectly flat, uncolored sound? Well, that's another question. I could just post a picture describing it, but everyone would flame me to death yelling "You call this an ideal? What a moron" Etc.
> If you really interested and got time, then read some books about psychoacoustics, there is an answer in it, and some other funny facts. Like what ear sensitivity to high frequiencies reduces with age. Thats why some old guys find grados pleasing. I just love to know what my Denons are futureproof and would sound even better in future.


 
  No, I was right, I used "uncoloured" for simplicity sake because "analytical" is close but not quite right either, the flat debate is out of scope, but some headphones need added colouration to sound best, agreed? And that's the point I was making


----------



## Raines

mine is coming


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Hey Sphinxvc, do you think you could post a comparison when you get your ODAC? Or did you get the combo in one enclosure?


 
   
  Comparison with the Firefly?  It wasn't mine.  Or do you mean with something else?


----------



## tzjin

Oh. Darn. Those are pretty much my two options right now, and I'm wondering if the Firefly is worth the extra Benjamin.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Oh. Darn. Those are pretty much my two options right now, and I'm wondering if the Firefly is worth the extra Benjamin.


 
   
  I'm confused... someone mentioned the DragonFly (small usb-stick DAC/amp), then everyone since has mentioned a FireFly?  Is this another product or are we talking about the same thing?


----------



## caracara08

has anyone with the RCA version of the ODAC used it with more expensive amps?  good? bad?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Oh. Darn. Those are pretty much my two options right now, and I'm wondering if the Firefly is worth the extra Benjamin.


 
   
  I highly doubt the sound is a factor here, I was more talking about the footprint -- I would have preferred the usb stick.
   
  Quote: 





bobeau said:


> I'm confused... someone mentioned the DragonFly (small usb-stick DAC/amp), then everyone since has mentioned a FireFly?  Is this another product or are we talking about the same thing?


 
   
  Oops, Dragonfly.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> *Hey guys this might be a stupid question but here is the dilemma I got. Do i connect the DAC using 3.5mm to 2 x RCA or should I just use the 3.5 to 3.5 mm port? My amp has both 3.5 and RCA input. *


 
  It will not make a difference. Use what you want
   
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> *ENDING THE TRANSPARENT/COLOURED DEBATE*
> 
> 
> ALWAYS use a transparent source/DAC
> ...


 
   
  I really like this post. I used to be dead-set against tubes.. Until I listened to some with sennheisers and Electrostats, I like the tube sound sometimes. It's not my preferred thing, but it just sounds nice sometimes, especially with more "analytical" headphones
   
  Quote: 





sllow said:


> Wrong statements there. There is no uncolored headphones on the market. Every headphone have their dips and accents. And, a truly uncolored headphone with perfectly flat FR would be just unenjoyable to listen, because when perfectly flat and uncolored response enters our ear, it's becomes colored, because sound waves reflecting from the walls of the ear canal,and become colored. Not pleasantly colored, thats for sure. What FR should have a headphone to reach our brain in perfectly flat, uncolored sound? Well, that's another question. I could just post a picture describing it, but everyone would flame me to death yelling "You call this an ideal? What a moron" Etc.
> If you really interested and got time, then read some books about psychoacoustics, there is an answer in it, and some other funny facts. Like what ear sensitivity to high frequiencies reduces with age. Thats why some old guys find grados pleasing. I just love to know what my Denons are futureproof and would sound even better in future.


 
  He was just using that term for simplicity's sake.


----------



## bluefishs

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> has anyone with the RCA version of the ODAC used it with more expensive amps?  good? bad?


 
  Although I don't have expensive amp, I have vintage amp and speakers.
  I was very impressed when I heard music from my setting at the first time.
  The sound is very transparent!!! In addition,the sound has a lot of detail from low to high freq.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My setting is ODAC (RAC output)-->Mcintosh MC2105-->Marantz SP-1000
   
  My two cents.


----------



## tzjin

Eek I messed up too. Mibad.
   
  Side note: Jude's review of the DragonFly is up! Looks promising.


----------



## sridhar3

Subbed.


----------



## LoveKnight

Yeah, how about Dragonfly and C421? I think this is a little bit strange but come on guys, Jude mentioned in his review that Dragonfly can compare to other DACs about $1k 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Now I am confused. Which combo should I buy Dragonfly + C421, Odac + C421 or just Dragonfly? Need more impressions and opinions of these little monsters.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Jude mentioned in his review that Dragonfly can compare to other DACs about $1k


 
   
  That doesn't really mean much if you think about it.


----------



## sphinxvc

..as in, without a point of reference, most wouldn't know what to make of that statement.  I imagine the O2 (edit: ODAC, I meant) compares to more expensive DACs in certain ways too.


----------



## fenderf4i

sphinxvc said:


> That doesn't really mean much if you think about it.




Exactly. I can never take "reviews" seriously when the reviewer is someone that receives money and products from so many of the audio companies that are getting "reviews" done on their products.

The ODAC is so cheap, that there isn't any reason not to purchase one just to try it!


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> I can never take "reviews" seriously when the reviewer is someone that receives money and products from so many of the audio companies that are getting "reviews" done on their products.


 
   
  I wouldn't insinuate that.  It's within the realm of possibilities, sure, but it's baseless and arbitrary to call it true, or even probable.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> That doesn't really mean much if you think about it.


 
  doesnt mean ANYTHING if you think about it.... really think about it


----------



## sphinxvc

Funny.  =/


----------



## jude

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> doesnt mean ANYTHING if you think about it.... really think about it


 
   
   
  Being the admin of an active forum for over 11 years inures one to an awful lot--thick skin develops rather quickly in the role.
   
  And _anyone_ posting on a forum has to be prepared for a certain amount of feedback and criticism. However, your comment (quoted above) is just an insult, plain and simple--and I imagine right now you're thinking _"well, duh,"_ as it was obviously intended by you to be just that.
   
  So consider this message a formal warning. And, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that the target of your insult is a forum admin--it has everything to do with the fact that the target of your insult is a fellow community member.


----------



## sphinxvc

Partially my fault, I should probably stop posting one sentence posts that are open to interpretation.  To be clear, I meant it didn't mean much_ in the context of the guy I quoted_, who clearly didn't have much experience and therefore, that statement wouldn't help him in his decision.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> ..as in, without a point of reference, most wouldn't know what to make of that statement.  I imagine the O2 (edit: ODAC, I meant) compares to more expensive DACs in certain ways too.


 
   
  I think the device is probably more alluring for folks like me with the combo O2/ODAC.  I always have to be by an outlet to use it.  If it compares sonically (I really do think the O2/ODAC is quite incredible sonically) and doesn't provide to much of a power draw for full size cans, this give me the option to enjoy my Thunderpants untethered for hours.  I guess the big question for me also is how good is its headamp compared to the O2.


----------



## jarrett

What are the other choices out there that have RCA outputs and not for headphones (no amp)? Kind of like HRT MSII for specs


----------



## Currawong

jarret: Almost every DAC has an amplification circuit, as the signals directly out of most common DA chips aren't strong enough for line-level signals. A strength of a line-level output isn't far off one suitable for headphones, so one could, in effect, use the Dragonfly as a DAC only.
   
  I agree that an ODAC/O2 would be interesting to compare to the Dragonfly. A bought a Dragonfly out of pure curiosity and I reckon it is pretty good for what it is. I posted a review on it in the Head Gear section and, in summary, its capabilities are quite dependent on the quality of USB power it is fed. Out of my lab-grade Vaunix USB hub I reckon it certainly gives my better portable digital gear a run for its money. Maybe the ODAC would as well. I'm interested in giving one a go sometime to compare.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





currawong said:


> jarret: Almost every DAC has an amplification circuit, as the signals directly out of most common DA chips aren't strong enough for line-level signals. A strength of a line-level output isn't far off one suitable for headphones, so one could, in effect, use the Dragonfly as a DAC only.
> 
> I agree that an ODAC/O2 would be interesting to compare to the Dragonfly. A bought a Dragonfly out of pure curiosity and I reckon it is pretty good for what it is. I posted a review on it in the Head Gear section and, in summary, its capabilities are quite dependent on the quality of USB power it is fed. Out of my lab-grade Vaunix USB hub I reckon it certainly gives my better portable digital gear a run for its money. Maybe the ODAC would as well. I'm interested in giving one a go sometime to compare.


 
  you need to try the odac and o2 with your magnums currawong  My favorite set up thus far!


----------



## johnman1116

noob questions: How should I have the volume set up?
  its kinda confusing because there are so many: music player, laptop, speaker, amp, etc. 
   
  I have been following this thread for a while and I really like the ODAC. Probably all in my head but I really like the clarity and detail that i noticed. Mainly its great because it give me peace of mind (lol) knowing the odac is a well designed and tested product  and at a reasonable price.
   
  dont have the O2 yet but soon. As a reference (initially).
  Thanks,


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> noob questions: How should I have the volume set up?


 
   
  With a decent-enough 24-bit DAC like ODAC, just set the OS to 24-bit output (sample rate generally at whatever the sample rate of most your music is, which is generally 44.1 kHz; that's a simplified explanation) and volume to whatever.  It doesn't really matter, and that's the point of having such hardware—you can do whatever you want with peace of mind.
  
  Just avoid (1) volume so low you need an amp set on higher gain than necessary to compensate, or (2) volume so high that you need to turn the volume down so far on the amp that there may be L/R channel imbalance issues, or turning the knob slightly makes huge changes in volume (making adjusting difficult and annoying).


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> noob questions: How should I have the volume set up?
> its kinda confusing because there are so many: music player, laptop, speaker, amp, etc.
> 
> I have been following this thread for a while and I really like the ODAC. Probably all in my head but I really like the clarity and detail that i noticed. Mainly its great because it give me peace of mind (lol) knowing the odac is a well designed and tested product  and at a reasonable price.
> ...


 
  all volumes should be turned up, with you using the knob on the amp to control volume.


----------



## johnman1116

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> With a decent-enough 24-bit DAC like ODAC, just set the OS to 24-bit output (sample rate generally at whatever the sample rate of most your music is, which is generally 44.1 kHz; that's a simplified explanation) and volume to whatever.  It doesn't really matter, and that's the point of having such hardware—you can do whatever you want with peace of mind.
> 
> Just avoid (1) volume so low you need an amp set on higher gain than necessary to compensate, or (2) volume so high that you need to turn the volume down so far on the amp that there may be L/R channel imbalance issues, or turning the knob slightly makes huge changes in volume (making adjusting difficult and annoying).


 
  This is what I was doing. Thanks.


----------



## wushuliu

One more thing, although I am sure this is a waste of time here-but for the few who might care:
   
Another tip for the odac: lose the usb cable, get an adapter. Well definitely toss the stock cable. It increases the digititis. I swapped with a smaller but just as cheap cable to good effect. However in other forums Jkeny has turned me on to replacing a usb cable with an adapter whenever possible. You'd be surprised how much more natural and effortless a usb dac will perform with this extremely inexpensive tweak. My wireworld starlights have been on the bench since using adapters. In this case I used this one from Amazon for the odac and it's night and day vs stock usb cable. Now on par w/ Dragonfly - still not as refined (or 'sweet' as another person put it) but digititis is 99% gone and more importantly it has superior detail/transparency, into i-never-heard-that-before category. This is *without* the external supply btw. On another forum someone suggested maybe my PC has usb power issues, which is certainly possible, but the Dragonfly and other dacs have performed admirably with no problems; but an adapter always improved performance. Regardless, anyone with a usb dac owes it to themselves to use an adapter instead of their usb cable if space permits. You may be surprised.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





currawong said:


> jarret: Almost every DAC has an amplification circuit, as the signals directly out of most common DA chips aren't strong enough for line-level signals. A strength of a line-level output isn't far off one suitable for headphones, so one could, in effect, use the Dragonfly as a DAC only.
> 
> I agree that an ODAC/O2 would be interesting to compare to the Dragonfly. A bought a Dragonfly out of pure curiosity and I reckon it is pretty good for what it is. I posted a review on it in the Head Gear section and, in summary, its capabilities are quite dependent on the quality of USB power it is fed. Out of my lab-grade Vaunix USB hub I reckon it certainly gives my better portable digital gear a run for its money. Maybe the ODAC would as well. I'm interested in giving one a go sometime to compare.


 
  Are there any cheaper alternatives to 'Vaunix USB Hub' that can deliver a similar type of performance when it comes to supply clean power to a USB device?


----------



## parkjyh

subscribed


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Are there any cheaper alternatives to 'Vaunix USB Hub' that can deliver a similar type of performance when it comes to supply clean power to a USB device?


 
  look a few pages back, there was a Linear power supply link


----------



## CanMad

I received my O2 + ODAC from Epiphany a week and a half ago.  I find the sound very accurate and neutral and love the sound with my Etmotic ER4P's with P->S cable.
   
  I feed it with lossless files via foobar.  As it is 96khz capable I have started ripping my DVD-Audio collection.  Today I tried an 88.2 rip of "The Soft Bulletin" by the Flaming Lips.  As it is 88.2 I was expecting silence without use of a resampler (such as the SoX DSP in foobar) to 44.1, however I got sound.
   
  My question is this, does Windows XP detect that the ODAC cannot accept 88.2 and automatically re-sample to 44.1 or is all of my hi-res music being re-sampled and I am not getting bit perfect playback?  I have followed all the XP and foobar set-up steps from on the Benchmark Engineering Wiki pages.


----------



## wdahm519

Quote: 





canmad said:


> I received my O2 + ODAC from Epiphany a week and a half ago.  I find the sound very accurate and neutral and love the sound with my Etmotic ER4P's with P->S cable.
> 
> I feed it with lossless files via foobar.  As it is 96khz capable I have started ripping my DVD-Audio collection.  Today I tried an 88.2 rip of "The Soft Bulletin" by the Flaming Lips.  As it is 88.2 I was expecting silence without use of a resampler (such as the SoX DSP in foobar) to 44.1, however I got sound.
> 
> My question is this, does Windows XP detect that the ODAC cannot accept 88.2 and automatically re-sample to 44.1 or is all of my hi-res music being re-sampled and I am not getting bit perfect playback?  I have followed all the XP and foobar set-up steps from on the Benchmark Engineering Wiki pages.


 
   
  Usually it downsamples for you, however doing it as a DSP might have more accurate downsampling. I don't have an 88kHz tracks, only 96, or else I would try it on my Squeezebox Touch to see if it also figures it out on that device.


----------



## Funky-kun

I had the chance to A/B today against the Xonar Essence STX (/w LME49720s) for an hour in a quiet listening environment.
   
  I think overall the ODAC is a step up from the STX's DAC. 
   
  ODAC is clearer sounding in the mid frequencies and lets more of the recording's details through. As such the sense of ambience in recordings is enhanced.
   
  I think it is a question of the brain getting used to it, but absorbing more information from the mids tends to create the illusion of lesser bass presence in terms of quantity. However, when tested with bass notes, the ODAC clearly has no deficiency. In comparison the STX sounds like the sound has more body, but it is muffled.
   
  The ODAC's highs are the biggest improvement over the STX. They just seem more realistic on good acoustic recordings - clear, extended and with remarkable resolution. In contrast the STX is harsh and sibilant at times. 
   
  I wouldn't say the STX sounds bad, but the ODAC seems to offer better fidelity. The differences weren't night and day, but obvious enough to be clearly noticed in a short listening session.
   
  I also noticed that the ODAC did produce a high-pitched noise when connected to a switched off desktop PC. Strangely this doesn't happen when connected to my laptop.


----------



## Kayk

Quote: 





funky-kun said:


> I had the chance to A/B today against the Xonar Essence STX (/w LME49720s) for an hour in a quiet listening environment.
> 
> I think overall the ODAC is a step up from the STX's DAC.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was about to do a mini-writeup but you said it better than I could have. I'll add that the highs of the ODAC come off as 'diamond-tipped'. This is coming in comparison with my previous DAC, the Audio-gd Sparrow, which is $240 :0
   
  The box doesn't get hot at all, I wish the Audio Poutine version had a blue LED as opposed to red, but perhaps I can fix that. The lack of a physical volume knob my Sparrow had is very much missed, but the ODAC does one thing and it does it extremely well, so I'm sticking with it. I'm not using it in a headphone setup, but rather connected to a pair of AudioEngine A5+'s for those interested to know.
   
  I also purchased a Kimber Kable USB mini Cu, and while I didn't do any A/B testing, I think the premium USB cable squeezed out an extra 2% in sound quality when replacing my monoprice cable. This definitely falls under the threshold of placebo, but I feel assured that any factors diminishing performance in that part of the chain has been eliminated.


----------



## muad

To be fair the audio-gd sparrow is also an amp...


----------



## Kayk

Quote: 





muad said:


> To be fair the audio-gd sparrow is also an amp...


 

 It is a _preamp_, from what I read most of the talk about it's design that led me to buy it was regarding the DAC portion of it.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





kayk said:


> It is a _preamp_, from what I read most of the talk about it's design that led me to buy it was regarding the DAC portion of it.


 
   
  Nope, the Audio-GD Sparrow is a dac/headamp combo unit. Hence why it only has a TRS plug for output and no RCAs, it can be used as a pre amp sure, but its defintiely a headphone amp.


----------



## CanMad

Quote: 





wdahm519 said:


> Usually it downsamples for you, however doing it as a DSP might have more accurate downsampling. I don't have an 88kHz tracks, only 96, or else I would try it on my Squeezebox Touch to see if it also figures it out on that device.


 
  Thanks for your reply.  Are you saying that you think Windows just down samples the 88.2 (44.1 or 48khz?) by detecting that the ODAC can't play these or that all my files are probably being downsampled? I'm going to try some 192khz today and see whether that results in sound or not.


----------



## chouck

ODAC + O2 combo portable mod http://www.head-fi.org/t/616331/o2-amp-odac/45#post_8527670


----------



## dwk

I got the O2/ODAC combo from JDS last week. I've only had a chance to do some brief sporadic listening over some HD280s, but my impression is that it is a substantially better combo than the Sparrow I used to have (Rev A I think - the upgraded version). I found the HD280s to be rather 'blah' on the sparrow, but with the O2/ODAC they actually sound very good. This is for a work setup, and if the clamping force on the 280s wasn't so high I'd be perfectly happy with the setup for it's intended purpose - as it is, they just aren't comfortable for longer term listening. I'm either going to mod my T50rps, or else send them in for the mad dog mod - if the modded versions are anywhere close to what the buzz indicates, I think the overall setup for ~600 will be very very good.


----------



## chouck

If someone (like me) have problems with Windows Drivers and ODAC working you can use this Tenor TE7022 drivers set, that works!
   
*If use ASIO please go to this web site download Asio driver:*
http://www.ab-system.hk/product_driver/usb3pkg_v0p7p3p2a_20100401.zip
*Teralink X2 Win7 64bit drive ( 03-03-2012):*
http://www.ab-system.hk/product_driver/TeralinkX2Win764Bitdrive.rar


----------



## jono454

I'm assuming people have had enough time to burn-in their ODACs so would anyone have any updated impressions on how this stacks up against other DACS like the bifrost or HRT MSII+?


----------



## Kayk

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> I'm assuming people have had enough time to burn-in their ODACs so would anyone have any updated impressions on how this stacks up against other DACS like the bifrost or HRT MSII+?


 
   
  Read the earlier posts in this thread. The consensus is that the ODAC is a smidge better than the MSII+ and a smidge lesser to the Bifrost.


----------



## paconavarro

O2 + ODAC is amazing, matching it with the DT990s is great, the mids get enhanced and the highs are clearer. I must point out that the lows are very well defined.
  Conclusion... IM VERY HAPPY WITH THE COMBO!


----------



## Audiodoc

[size=11pt]This is the brief impression of my ODAC which I have been using for the past one and half months. Constructed in the FiiO E11 packing tin so both can be carried together. Copied from my thread on a local forum. [/size]
   
  [size=11pt]http://www.hifivision.com/diy/26853-objective-dac-here.html [/size]
   
  [size=11pt][/size]
   
   
*[size=11pt][size=11pt]EQUIPMENT: [/size][/size]*
   
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt]Source: Dell L502X USB3.0 Ports USB [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt]Cable: FiiO USB Cable with two ferrite cores at either ends. [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt]Source Material: FLAC / ALAC / 320kbps mp3[/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt]Amplifiers: FiiO E9, FiiO E7, DIY Beyerdynamic A1 Clone, Embedded Hybrid Headphone Amplifier (EHHA) BJT Version. (Will check with my FiiO E11 later). [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt]DAC: ODAC, Quad Wolfson 8740 DAC (donated by a fellow forum member), FiiO E7 (Single Wolfson 8740), DIY Burr Brown 1798 DAC, Hifiman HM601 Philips NOS DAC. [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt]Headphones: Sennheiser HD650 ODAC[/size][/size]*_
   
   
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• First Impression. A very small PCB with two ICs, one being the tenor TE7022 USB interface chip and other the Sabre ES9023 DAC chip with all parts being SMD. Installed it in the FiiO E11 packaging case with still room to store the E11. No windows drivers required. Windows performs a quick check and loads the drivers and the device is recognised as ODAC. Can be connected to ipad using powered USB and camera connection kit and not directly as it derived power from the USB. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• Dead Silent as expected (however all the DAC are dead silent except for some noise in the E7 around the audibility threshold). there is no audible evidence of any jitter. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• 24 bit Adaptive Interface. Software volume control becomes viable without loss of detail. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• I prefer tight and textured bass, with the right amount of kick. On the other hand I hate treble with even a slightest bit of harshness as I find it highly fatiguing. The best part of the ODAC is it extends the high frequency spectrum without any harsh treble thereby giving a very detailed presentation (very prominent in the Hamma track from Bombay). [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• The midrange is very forward sounding, detailed and revealing. One can hear when the singer inhales between lines. [/size][size=medium]The guitar riffs from Eagles tracks materialized in front of you with space between the various instruments unlike the low end muddied presentation of some devices that I have heard. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• This detail and resolution has some caveats. Poor quality tracks (either heavily compressed or badly mastered) are unbearable to hear even on my HD650s (which is known to be forgiving). This leads to fatigue over prolonged listening sessions especially with less forgiving or treble happy headphones (As a protective mechanism in the human ear the stapedius muscle becomes taut listening to impactful bass decreasing the sensitivity to bass frequencies while higher frequencies lead to ear and headaches, so keep the volume level in check and take frequent breaks). On the other hand the HM601 retains the midrange quality however makes even 128kpbs rips sound decent (courtesy its NOS DAC and a high end roll off). [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• The transparent presentation helped me in distinguishing the sound signature of my amplifiers with the EHHA and E9 having a flat frequency response and the slight coloration (bass enhancement) of my DIY Beyerdynamic A1 clone due to its high output impedance (though I like its visceral effects on kick drums). Comparisons: [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• The ODAC is audibly better than the FiiO E7. Its tonality is similar to the DIY burr brown DAC however its extracts more detail. When compared to the quad Wolfson 8740 the ODAC performs better in the bass and treble region however the midrange is smoother in the former. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]• The problem is not with the chip itself but its implementation. At the same time the Operational amplifier introduce a sound signature of their own. This may be beneficial to those who are into DIY and try opamp rolling to tailor the sound signature to their preference according to their headphone capabilities. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]Final words: [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]Great performance for the price. An ideal external sound card. Though I think the $50 custom enclosure by JDS labs is a rip off. Make your own enclosures. DIY cooking is better. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]I continued testing the laptop, ODAC, EHHA and HD650 chain with 24/96 material from HD tracks. Albums by Diana Krell, Eagles, Air Supply, Dire Straights. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]Softwares used was the latest version of foobar 2000 with WASAPI set at 24 bits output will buffer at 1000 ms with the DAC as the default audio device in windows set at 24 bits. The result was night and day especially in the midrange where you could easily hear the vocal nuances of the singers. The tonality and timbre of instruments was so natural. One could easily make out the riffs of the bass guitar from other instruments, some thing that used to get washed out in the thumps of the bigger drums. Similarly the higher end gets smoother. The most testing tracks are the ones in which there a number of crescendos and all of them were reproduced authentically. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]The only bad thing that I noticed in some 24 bit tracks other than those from HDtracks site was that you could hear the noise floor which could not be discerned at 16 bits. This means that 24 bit files will only be enjoyable if they are mastered properly with a very low noise floor. In addition, these differences were relatively less on the cheap but decent speaker rig pass B1, MyRef and wharf 10.1 pointing towards upgraditis. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]Overall 24 bit music was audibly better than 16 bit music and the effects of dynamic range we easily perceptable. The other caveat is the unavailibility of HD tracks from Indian singers. Even the regular CDs these days are poorly mastered. I had purchased Sangam album by Nusrat and javed akhter a while back from flipkart and it sounded like an mp3. I believe the remastering was done improperly will loss of dynamic range. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]CONNECTING THE USB POWERED ODAC TO iDEVICES. [/size][/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt] [/size][/size]*_
_*[size=11pt][size=11pt][size=medium]The problem with devices like iPad is that they do not directly connect to those DACs which are USB powered. An error message is what you get if you directly connect the ipad to the camera connection kit (CCK) of the iPad. The FiiO E7 has an inbuilt battery so if you turn off the USB charging function it works with IPad with CCK. So how to run the ipad with ODAC. Just add a good quality powered USB hub (the Belkin 4 port in my case costs Rs 850). Connect the hub input to CCK and output to ODAC and Voila! you have sound. Problem number two is that you cannot transfer 24/96 files from your laptop to the iPad. An error message saying that the device is unable to play pops up. The maximum quality AIFF/ALAC files that you can transfer are 24/48. Solution: Just download the following applications: 1. AceMusic Will play most video, music as well as pictures. Give 24/96 support as well as the ubiquitous FLAC file support. It also solves the problem of playing 1080p videos mkv/mp4 on the ipad. PRICE FREE 2. Capriccio This is another great player with 24/96 flac support, with ablum artwork, FTP server, wifi transfer support. Another good this is that this application can also play the files on the default music player of the ipad so you dont have to keep multiple copies. It also provides a basic graphic equalizer for those who need coloured sound. PRICE $0.99[/size][/size][/size]*_


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:  
   
  If I were you, I'd edit the post and hit the "Enter" key a few times between sections.  Nobody likes reading ye olde wall o' text.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> If I were you, I'd edit the post and hit the "Enter" key a few times between sections.  Nobody likes reading ye olde wall o' text.


 
  YES THIS, I can't read it, or won't read it.


----------



## Audiodoc

I tried to edit it however entering doesn't do anything. Possibly because I copied it from my local forum " Hifivision". You may read it from there as it has be presented in paragraphs. Will again try to edit.
   
  Was  a problem with the opera browser. Could edit in internet explorer.


----------



## paradoxper

Fixed.


----------



## .Sup

Amazing review Audiodoc! Especially grateful for all the info on ipad. I am expecting to get my o-dac on Thursday. Thanks again and looking forward for some more impressions from you!


----------



## BleaK

Great impression!


----------



## putente

Subscribed...


----------



## .Sup

I just got mine. Works with ipad but you have to turn volume slider up to 100%. At first nothing happened because with digital out slider doesn't play any role but here it does.


----------



## CJG888

With iPad2 and CCK? No "drawing too much power" error?

If it works, I'm ordering one!


----------



## .Sup

cjg888 said:


> With iPad2 and CCK? No "drawing too much power" error?
> If it works, I'm ordering one!



With a powered USB hub. People have reported it doesn't work without a powered hub. I will make a photo in a minute.

Some photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sups_photos/sets/72157630635182900/


----------



## putente

So, both JDSLabs own ODAC and Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC are the same thing, except for the external case?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





putente said:


> So, both JDSLabs own ODAC and Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC are the same thing, except for the external case?


 
   
  Yeah, those two and a few others are just resellers putting the product in a different chassis.  It's not like they designed the JDSLabs O2 or EHP-O2 either.
   
  There's only actually one source of populated PCBs—which are not trivial to produce, considering that the whole thing is SMT parts.  Making them in small quantities would be cost-prohibitive.  The resellers just buy the boards from that source, which of course doesn't deal with individual customers and single orders.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





putente said:


> So, both JDSLabs own ODAC and Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC are the same thing, except for the external case?


 
   
  From a certain blog on the interwebs, there seems on only be one version of the board available, since they mass produced it.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> Yeah, those two and a few others are just resellers putting the product in a different chassis.  It's not like they designed the JDSLabs O2 or EHP-O2 either.
> 
> There's only actually one source of populated PCBs—which are not trivial to produce, considering that the whole thing is SMT parts.  Making them in small quantities would be cost-prohibitive.  The resellers just buy the boards from that source, which of course doesn't deal with individual customers and single orders.


 
   
  Quote: 





tzjin said:


> From a certain blog on the interwebs, there seems on only be one version of the board available, since they mass produced it.


 
   
   
  I see. Thank you both! Can you tell me about more sources for these ODAC's, apart from JDSLabs and Epiphany Acoustics? I guess that info must be in the last 30 pages, but you could save me the trouble...


----------



## betavince

Quote: 





putente said:


> I see. Thank you both! Can you tell me about more sources for these ODAC's, apart from JDSLabs and Epiphany Acoustics? I guess that info must be in the last 30 pages, but you could save me the trouble...


 
   
   
   
   I got mine from Audio Poutine at diyAudio.  Here's a link for ordering, using a Google spreadsheet:
   
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audio-poutine/215350-dont-disappointed-order-your-odac-today.html


----------



## Audiodoc

In the European market there is head n head fi however JDS labs one is the cheapest.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





> From Somewhere
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As far as I'm aware, these are all of the distributors.


----------



## putente

Thanks guys! Great info...


----------



## mmicko

first fast impression:
  I get my ODAC two days ago, so this is not full review.
  My older DAC/AMP is Aune USB mini DAC MK2 SE upgraded with OP627 (2x2pcs on dual adapter) - powered by 12V power supply.
  ODAC was powered from USB and from "line out" connected by coaxial cables to Line IN of AUNE.
  Headphones - Sennheiser HD650
  Music for testing was in FLAC an 24/96 (mostly audiophile records from Chesky and other good labels)
   
  1. Space in records is similar - ODAC has little bit bigger sustain and wider stage (approx +10%)
   
  2. Bass - ODAC has more precise lower tones, perfect defined, without bluring and enhancement (ODAC 15% better)
      (amount of bass is perfect for my HD650 - maybe some people with more "flat" headphones, like AKG701 can feel lack of bass)
   
  3. Middle - ODAC has better definition, specialy in lower middle spectrum. Instruments has better location and i feel they are more "real". Same situation is with male voices. (ODAC 25% better)
   
  4. High - perfect neutral sound without any interferences or distortion. Even in my HD650 which are little bit high lacking i can now hear more details than with Aune. (ODAC 20% better)
   
  Overall - perfect device for 100USD, very neutral and detailed sounding.
  I belive there can be bigger difference in sound with some better headamp than the one in AUNE.
  I have my DIY   A classs opamp free amp - Dispre 2  from czech builder Pavel Macura so i will post some AUNE and ODAC comparsion with this amp later.
  I also have USB isolator and  Very low noise power supply from Per-Anders Sjostrom for powering the ODAC.
  Now I´m waiting for box to combine all this part together.
   
  And sorry for my english -  it´s not my first language.
   
  Michal


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





putente said:


> Thanks guys! Great info...


 
   
  Yoyodyne Consulting is actually the source of the ODAC boards, the rest are resellers who also integrate the boards into appropriate casings.


----------



## willmax

I'm having a few annoying glitches with my ODAC, I use it with ASIO4All and Foobar2000. I have it connected to the computer through a short USB cable with ferrite, I leave the ODAC hooked up to the computer 24/7 however most of times when I start Foobar and I press play the output dialogue box pops up and I have to select DS:ODAC in order to be able to play, also the master volume drops to 50% (half) every time this happens. Sometimes even if I just stop Foobar and leave the computer unattended for a while, when I come back to it I have to select the ODAC again.
   
  Another issue that might be unrelated is occasionally when I skip a song I hear a loud popping noise which I did not use to hear before using my DACport with ASIO4All. By the way I'm running Windows XP SP3 32bit. Cheers


----------



## K3cT

No comparisons with the Perfect Wave, Wyred4Sound DAC-2 or NAD M51 yet?


----------



## LFF

Quote: 





willmax said:


> I'm having a few annoying glitches with my ODAC, I use it with ASIO4All and Foobar2000. I have it connected to the computer through a short USB cable with ferrite, I leave the ODAC hooked up to the computer 24/7 however most of times when I start Foobar and I press play the output dialogue box pops up and I have to select DS:ODAC in order to be able to play, also the master volume drops to 50% (half) every time this happens. Sometimes even if I just stop Foobar and leave the computer unattended for a while, when I come back to it I have to select the ODAC again.
> 
> Another issue that might be unrelated is occasionally when I skip a song I hear a loud popping noise which I did not use to hear before using my DACport with ASIO4All. By the way I'm running Windows XP SP3 32bit. Cheers


 
  DS:ODAC means your signal is going through the windows mixer.
   
  Install WASAPI for foobar and configure it for WASAPI instead.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





lff said:


> DS:ODAC means your signal is going through the windows mixer.
> 
> Install WASAPI for foobar and configure it for WASAPI instead.


 
   
  I don't think XP supports WASAPI.  I think that's only Vista and Win7.  Anyone feel free to chime in and correct me if that's inaccurate.
   
  Isn't there a separate section for ASIO controls in Foobar2000?


----------



## K_19

For XP, there is Kernel Streaming option to bypass the internal mixer as well.


----------



## WiR3D

ASIO4all is just a wrapper, it really has no benefit except for compatibility in some situations. It still goes through the windows mixer.


----------



## tme110

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Another issue that might be unrelated is occasionally when I skip a song I hear a loud popping noise which I did not use to hear before using my DACport with ASIO4All. By the way I'm running Windows XP SP3 32bit. Cheers


 
  do the songs have different rates?  I heard a clicking on a preveious DAC sometimes and it was from the DAC switching between different resolution files.  It mellowed out after a while.  not sure that helps at all though.


----------



## LCfiner

I just ordered one of these from JDS. 

I'm using an HRT MS2 now. In the past I had owned some $1000 DACs like the benchmark or isabellina but never really felt that their price offered enough of an upgrade over stuff like the ms2+ (or even the ms2, to be honest)

I figure if the odac can come close to dac1 performance for under 200 bucks, then ill be set for the long term. 

They're back ordered but I suppose I'm part of the late July / early August shipment


----------



## caracara08

im probably in the minority, but i felt the ODAC was a bit too bright... which given the measurements, i guess says that i like darker stuff.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> im probably in the minority, but i felt the ODAC was a bit too bright... which given the measurements, i guess says that i like darker stuff.


 
  which headphones dude?


----------



## caracara08

t1, t50rp (Mad Dogs), and had a Q701.  again, they may not be overly bright and i just may prefer a darker signature.


----------



## LCfiner

Hmm. I thought those headphones were known for being a little bright.

Perhaps if you really like a darker signature, try an LCD2 or hd650?

Of course, maybe you'll find you don't like headphones that shelve treble quote as much as those do,


----------



## paradoxper

Yep, I also found it bright. I used LCD-2, LCD-3, Mad Dog, HD600, HE-5. Besides that I just found it lacking.


----------



## caracara08

oh i like what i got, so just gonna change out the source and possibly do an a/b. i rather build my system around my headphoens than my dac.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





lff said:


> DS:ODAC means your signal is going through the windows mixer.
> 
> Install WASAPI for foobar and configure it for WASAPI instead.


 
  Thanks, yes I was using DS:ODAC, but since my post yesterday I finally managed to properly setup ASIO4All to work with ODAC and Foobar. To my ears I did improve the sound quality.
   
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I don't think XP supports WASAPI.  I think that's only Vista and Win7.  Anyone feel free to chime in and correct me if that's inaccurate.
> 
> Isn't there a separate section for ASIO controls in Foobar2000?


 
  That's right WASAPI is only compatible with Windows Vista and later Windows releases.
   
  Quote: 





k_19 said:


> For XP, there is Kernel Streaming option to bypass the internal mixer as well.


 
  I have not tried that yet, but I might try to see if I can eliminate the loud popping noise when skipping tracks.
   
  Quote: 





tme110 said:


> do the songs have different rates?  I heard a clicking on a preveious DAC sometimes and it was from the DAC switching between different resolution files.  It mellowed out after a while.  not sure that helps at all though.


 
   
  My files do have different bit rates, after I managed to properly setup ASIO4All yesterday I've had a few popping noises again, it is quite random and annoying as well. I wonder whether I got a defective ODAC since I can't see many people complaining about it.
  Thanks for all replies above, the quest continues.


----------



## draven5494

caracara08 said:


> im probably in the minority, but i felt the ODAC was a bit too bright... which given the measurements, i guess says that i like darker stuff.




I feel pretty much the same way about my ODAC - mstage - q701 combo. Although, I would call it 'thin' instead of 'bright'. 

I actually prefer the MSII to the ODAC for this reason.


----------



## dadab12

Hello, I just ordered the Odac from audio poutine with 2 rca.
  i'll be connecting it to an SPL Auditor > HD800..
  should I order an external power supply for enhanced performance?
  do you guys know where I could order a decent power supply?
  what about the usb cable.. does it matter?
  Thanks


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Hello, I just ordered the Odac from audio poutine with 2 rca.
> i'll be connecting it to an SPL Auditor > HD800..
> should I order an external power supply for enhanced performance?
> do you guys know where I could order a decent power supply?
> ...


 
  just a simple usb cable, shorter better, with a ferrite choke on the odac end. 
   
  You shouldn't need a power supply, unless you computer gives off some really dirty power. 

 Try it, if you hear some odd things, maybe get a power supply.


----------



## dadab12

Thanks,  I was browsing through this thread and I saw someone mentioning a Usb adapter as a better option... 
  my laptop won't  distort the sound if I connect the Odac to it? not even slightly?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Thanks,  I was browsing through this thread and I saw someone mentioning a Usb adapter as a better option...
> my laptop won't  distort the sound if I connect the Odac to it? not even slightly?


 
  shouldn't


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Thanks,  I was browsing through this thread and I saw someone mentioning a Usb adapter as a better option...
> my laptop won't  distort the sound if I connect the Odac to it? not even slightly?


 
   
  Laptop power supplies are better than PC.
  Other than that, the signal is digital. There is no way for the signal to be distorted.


----------



## chris99

Quote: 





willmax said:


> My files do have different bit rates, after I managed to properly setup ASIO4All yesterday I've had a few popping noises again, it is quite random and annoying as well. I wonder whether I got a defective ODAC since I can't see many people complaining about it.
> Thanks for all replies above, the quest continues.


 
   
  I have the same problem with popping sounds when changing tracks. It usually happens in Foobar but I have also gotten it when playing video files with media Player Classic, and also randomly when starting up the computer.
   
  I've tried WASAPI and other settings, but it is always there.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





chris99 said:


> I have the same problem with popping sounds when changing tracks. It usually happens in Foobar but I have also gotten it when playing video files with media Player Classic, and also randomly when starting up the computer.
> 
> I've tried WASAPI and other settings, but it is always there.


 
   
  Sorry to hear about your problem, so I'm not the only one in that situation - may I ask where did you get your ODAC from?


----------



## dadab12

where did you get it from, both of you?


----------



## titusgroan

Has anybody had trouble running the ODAC from Win 7 64bit? I did not install with in built drivers and the I have not yet come across any drivers to download for this...


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





titusgroan said:


> Has anybody had trouble running the ODAC from Win 7 64bit? I did not install with in built drivers and the I have not yet come across any drivers to download for this...


 
  I run it with Win 7 64bit. No issues.


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> I run it with Win 7 64bit. No issues.


 

 same


----------



## tzjin

The smaller case and new endplates for the ODAC look fantastic!
   
  https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.453485851338870.105630.213109922043132&type=1


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> The smaller case and new endplates for the ODAC look fantastic!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.453485851338870.105630.213109922043132&type=1


 
   
  Whoa, that looks awesome.


----------



## Audiodoc

The digital signal cannot be contaminated by the power supply. The only two reasons I can think of in the case of a USB powered DAC is that the 5v USB supply should be clean as it is powering the DAC. Secondly any sort of noise can be transmitted via the cable to the analog outputs of the ODAC. Although there is on board filtering a good USB cable with an inbuilt ferrite core may be a good yet cheap solution. 

There are some high end connectors which prevent the USB ground to be separate from the DAC ground however I won't recommend any of those as this is a budget rig.


----------



## dadab12

Has anyone heard the Odac with HD800? I'm about the receive the odac in the next couple of days..
  I'm gonna hook it up to an SPL Auditor, I hope it's gonna work good. I don't have to cash for a 1000$ dac right now.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





audiodoc said:


> The digital signal cannot be contaminated by the power supply. The only two reasons I can think of in the case of a USB powered DAC is that the 5v USB supply should be clean as it is powering the DAC. Secondly any sort of noise can be transmitted via the cable to the analog outputs of the ODAC. Although there is on board filtering a good USB cable with an inbuilt ferrite core may be a good yet cheap solution.
> There are some high end connectors which prevent the USB ground to be separate from the DAC ground however I won't recommend any of those as this is a budget rig.


 
  almost went what?! and then went oh yeah, your right. Iffy phrasing though.


----------



## macrocheesium

Can anyone compare with the iBasso D7?


----------



## Audiodoc

I am also using the ODAC with Windows 7 64bit versions without any problems. It takes a few seconds for the drivers to get uploaded. Try to be patient for a while while they are loading. Sorry for the iffy phrasing. Was typing in a hurry so used longer sentences without the proper grammar.


----------



## scootermafia

Man that new mini odac case is sexy.
   
  I love my odac that's integrated into my JDS O2 case.  Super clean sound and a great travel companion.


----------



## chris99

Quote: 





willmax said:


> Sorry to hear about your problem, so I'm not the only one in that situation - may I ask where did you get your ODAC from?


 

  I got it from JDS Labs. The popping happens about 1 in 10 times when changing tracks.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





chris99 said:


> I got it from JDS Labs. The popping happens about 1 in 10 times when changing tracks.


 
   
  It's worth noting here that the supplier should be irrelevant. All ODAC circuit boards are assembled by NwAvGuy's assembly contractor, and distributed to retailers (such as us). This sounds like an O/S or software issue. You might want to pass along detailed info to us, as well as NwAvGuy for troubleshooting help.


----------



## jacknight

if I order standalone odac now,will i get the new small case?


----------



## tzjin

Yes, if you ask for it.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





jacknight said:


> if I order standalone odac now,will i get the new small case?


 
   
  Yes, all ODAC orders after July 27 will ship in the new, 49mm case. More info on the item page.


----------



## c61746961

Is there an option to have both a 3.5 mm output and RCA outputs?


----------



## loligagger

Would it be possible to put the RCA outputs and USB input on the same face?


----------



## tzjin

Guys don't you think it would be better to directly ask the seller that?


----------



## c61746961

It would, but then again we already did


----------



## tzjin

You may want to try Audio Poutine. I believe he does a lot of the work by hand, so you may be able to customize more with him.


----------



## dadab12

Just got the Odac, connected it Laptop > USB Odac > SPL Auditor > HD 800 on windows 7
  and I have a few problems, The sound seems alittle harsh to my ears, the  high especially. 
  what do I need to do? do I configure it in windows? maybe it's just not the dac for the HD800?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Just got the Odac, connected it Laptop > USB Odac > SPL Auditor > HD 800 on windows 7
> and I have a few problems, The sound seems alittle harsh to my ears, the  high especially.
> what do I need to do? do I configure it in windows? maybe it's just not the dac for the HD800?


 
  Its just the HD800


----------



## dadab12

nthe ultrasone 900 sounded bad too.
  maybe I just didn't configure it right... I have no idea.
  It's just that it didn't sound like that with my last audio interface...


----------



## .Sup

dadab12 said:


> Just got the Odac, connected it Laptop > USB Odac > SPL Auditor > HD 800 on windows 7
> and I have a few problems, The sound seems alittle harsh to my ears, the  high especially.
> what do I need to do? do I configure it in windows? maybe it's just not the dac for the HD800?



I use the same setup but the source is an iPad. To me its fine but I got used to HD800s treble. How long do you own the HD800? Maybe you just haven't adapted to its occasionally sibilant sound.


----------



## mmicko

Please send your player name and what all have you set in preferences before start.


----------



## .Sup

I use this app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sky.fm-internet-radio/id387816411?mt=8
Everything on default. You could cut off highest frequencies with an equaliser.


----------



## dadab12

I had it for almost a year, it was just not used because of personal reasons 
  hmm, I'm really contemplating here, whether it's the auditor or the dac, since I remember using a simple Focusrite 24 DSP audio interface that was certainly better than the Odac, atleast  with my setup and ears.
  I need to configure it in Audio devices to perform on 24/96 or what? i'm playing my music on foobar.


----------



## .Sup

Auditor only translates what the DAC gives it. Of course if you had an amp that is darker the setup wouldn't sound brighter. ODAC does't seem bright to me but it is slightly sterile, HD800 are bright for me. If you really like HD800 then the dac is what you should replace imo. But definitely play with equaliser first and reduce some treble.


----------



## dadab12

Thank you sir.


----------



## .Sup

dadab12 said:


> Thank you sir.




Np. Here is another photo just for Head-fi


----------



## dadab12

Mine is from Audio Poutine small as my 2 fingers combined, scary...
  I think I'll go for the Audiolab M-dac as my next option


----------



## .Sup

dadab12 said:


> Mine is from Audio Poutine small as my 2 fingers combined, scary...
> I think I'll go for the Audiolab M-dac as my next option



I am also eyeing the M-Dac. But I don't thing ESS9018 is for me. Its too sterile and not smooth and organic enough for me.


----------



## dadab12

It seemed like a great choice, you know, i'm just looking for something smooth, not sterile aswell.
  what options do we have here for?!


----------



## .Sup

dadab12 said:


> It seemed like a great choice, you know, i'm just looking for something smooth, not sterile aswell.
> what options do we have here for?!



Well I have the Audio GD Ref 5 and its very organic and pretty smooth. The other contender I am looking at, that in theory should be even smoother, is the Bifrost by Schiit Audio. But those are all more expensive.


----------



## tzjin

I recall someone saying the Dragonfly is a bit smoother than the ODAC.


----------



## kingoftown1

The Yulong D18 is a very smooth, yet detailed implementation of the 9018.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kingoftown1 said:


> The Yulong D18 is a very smooth, yet detailed implementation of the 9018.


 
  Yeah but... thats the yulong D18. Nuff said


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Yeah but... thats the yulong D18. Nuff said


 
   
  Sorry, I don't understand?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Sorry, I don't understand?


 
  Read the Review by project86


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Read the Review by project86


 
  He loved it, i still dont really get what you're trying to say


----------



## WiR3D

souprknowva said:


> He loved it, i still dont really get what you're trying to say



 
 was Dramatic effect....


----------



## Audiodoc

If anyone wants to try treble heavy headphones with the ODAC a better option may be a hybrid or tube amplifier. This will definitely tone down the sibilance and infuse the lushness and warmth that many audiophiles love. To me the ODAC is very flat and detailed which in turn make the presentation feel lifeless on a very analytical headphone like the HD800 or AKG701 / hifiman orthos. Will warmer headphones like the HD650 or grados the ODAC is a better match.

I believe that one should add the preferred coloration only at one stage of the audio chain, preferably at the headphones. In this case when you have a TOTL headphone like the HD800 adding a sweeter amp (EHHA, AiKido, etc.) would be a better choice.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





audiodoc said:


> If anyone wants to try treble heavy headphones with the ODAC a better option may be a hybrid or tube amplifier. This will definitely tone down the sibilance and infuse the lushness and warmth that many audiophiles love. To me the ODAC is very flat and detailed which in turn make the presentation feel lifeless on a very analytical headphone like the HD800 or AKG701 / hifiman orthos. Will warmer headphones like the HD650 or grados the ODAC is a better match.
> I believe that one should add the preferred coloration only at one stage of the audio chain, preferably at the headphones. In this case when you have a TOTL headphone like the HD800 adding a sweeter amp (EHHA, AiKido, etc.) would be a better choice.


 
  I agree, whole-heartedly


----------



## .Sup

I don't completely agree. It depends on the tube used.


----------



## dadab12

What the ****, I Tried to check/ test the difference between using the Odac+ SPL Auditor and my home cinema Onkyo SR605 receiver + SPL Auditor.. both with the Senn HD800 the SR605 with the Auditor sounded much better.
 Then I tried to use the SR605 headphone out, surprisingly there wasn't much difference between the auditor headphone out and the SR605, after some listening i'm afraid to say that I prefer the SR605.
 1st, how is that even possible?!
 2nd, how is the M-dac gonna make the Auditor sound better, it seems like the SR605 headphone section is superior?! i'm confused.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> What the ****, I Tried to check/ test the difference between using the Odac+ SPL Auditor and my home cinema Onkyo SR605 receiver + SPL Auditor.. both with the Senn HD800 the SR605 with the Auditor sounded much better.
> Then I tried to use the SR605 headphone out, surprisingly there wasn't much difference between the auditor headphone out and the SR605, after some listening i'm afraid to say that I prefer the SR605.
> 1st, how is that even possible?!
> 2nd, how is the M-dac gonna make the Auditor sound better, it seems like the SR605 headphone section is superior?! i'm confused.


 
   
  Interesting... I actually have an SR805 at home, which is known to have quite a good wolfson DAC + super beefy power supply (hey, it weighs over 50 lbs right .
   
  Guess I'll try running some headphones out from it, only use for it is to drive my Magnepan MMGs and TV.


----------



## dadab12

I dunno, I find it concerning, I don't know what to do next.
  sell my amp or buy a superior dac. I'm CONFUSED


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I dunno, I find it concerning, I don't know what to do next.
> sell my amp or buy a superior dac. I'm CONFUSED


 
   
  It could just come down to a sound signature you prefer.  In my estimation the ODAC -> Auditor -> HD800 seems like a relentlessly neutral/analytical chain that would probably leave most cold.


----------



## CJG888

Quote: 





.sup said:


> I use the same setup but the source is an iPad. To me its fine but I got used to HD800s treble. How long do you own the HD800? Maybe you just haven't adapted to its occasionally sibilant sound.


 
  May I ask how you have connected the DAC to the iPad? Directly via the CCK (using the iPad's battery), or through a powered USB hub?


----------



## .Sup

cjg888 said:


> May I ask how you have connected the DAC to the iPad? Directly via the CCK (using the iPad's battery), or through a powered USB hub?



Ipad>CCK>powered usb hub>odac>amp

I posted a couple photos a couple pages back


----------



## dadab12

Went to the Audio shop and bought the MDAC after a brief listening session with the M-Dac, the auditor and the HD800.
  you guys saying the Dac is irrelevant are biased, the auditor goes on a sell. what a shame


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Went to the Audio shop and bought the MDAC after a brief listening session with the M-Dac, the auditor and the HD800.
> you guys saying the Dac is irrelevant are biased, the auditor goes on a sell. what a shame


 
   
  Who said the DAC doesn't make a difference?  I think the thing with the ODAC is people are mostly claiming it's a very neutral sound... though IMO it still can be improved upon.
   
  I've definitely found some DACs to make a larger sonic difference than switching up the amp.  Depends on what you're changing out.  Try out an old school NOS TDA 1543 based DAC some time... it creates a very pleasing, euphonic sound similar to what a good tube amp will do.
   
  The MDAC is supposed to be a spectacular unit more to the musical side, enjoy.


----------



## dadab12

Thank you, I will enjoy it.
  What I also enjoyed is the support gives by John westlake the creator of the MDAC
  they update the firmware on a regular basis and I've heard the differences and they are not subtle, for example there is alot of difference between the filters and the sound stays natural and true just with a different presentation.
  The only downside though is that they only have the black version, but who gives a crap anyways. 
  I don't like the Odac presentation, I find it boring, sterile and not pleasant with the HD800. There is no doubt that it's neutral, it has a low distortion and low jitter, there is no doubt about that but that's not enough.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I don't like the Odac presentation, I find it boring, sterile and not pleasant with the HD800. There is no doubt that it's neutral, it has a low distortion and low jitter, there is no doubt about that but that's not enough.


 
   
  FWIW, I found the Dragonfly to have a similar sound to the ODAC but cleaned up a bit, the way that I would expect a good interface to do (they both use the same 9023 Sabre chip).  One of these days I'll run my AP2 to it to see what difference it makes.   I do love my ODAC/O2 -> Thunderpants but the Thunderpants are fairly colored.
   
  The Auditor is also ruthlessly neutral I understand as it's essentially pro audio equipment.  Did you try the MDAC -> Auditor -> HD800?


----------



## dadab12

Quote: 





bobeau said:


> FWIW, I found the Dragonfly to have a similar sound to the ODAC but cleaned up a bit, the way that I would expect a good interface to do (they both use the same 9023 Sabre chip).  One of these days I'll run my AP2 to it to see what difference it makes.   I do love my ODAC/O2 -> Thunderpants but the Thunderpants are fairly colored.
> 
> The Auditor is also ruthlessly neutral I understand as it's essentially pro audio equipment.  Did you try the MDAC -> Auditor -> HD800?


 
  Yes, I tried the MDAC > Auditor > HD800 and found the MDAC > HD800 much more to my liking,  I was superior to the Auditor.
  I find that surprising.


----------



## ChicaneBT

What do you guys think about coupling the ODAC with another amp than the O2? At this stage I'm thinking about a cheap amp until the ODA gets available and I have more funds to invest.


----------



## FlySweep

chicanebt said:


> What do you guys think about coupling the ODAC with another amp than the O2? At this stage I'm thinking about a cheap amp until the ODA gets available and I have more funds to invest.


 
   
  I use the ODAC with my Neco Soundlab V.3 portable (with dual AD8610 opamps).. more often than with the O2, in fact.  The V.3 is very neutral, but has a wonderful touch of smoothness and delicate warmth that's almost "Burson-esque."  Its spacious soundstage & excellent channel separation lends itself well to the ODAC crisp, high resolution output.


----------



## K_19

I'm currently pairing the ODAC with the AMB M³ (which is quite ironic, and some may even call this a "taboo" pairing as I believe nwavguy is well known for criticizing AMB designs 




 ) with OPA227 as my secondary rig, and I have to say I absolutely love this combo. In other amps ODAC may feel a bit too clinical, but not with the M³; the typical MOSFET amp warmth in the mids and overall smoothness of the amp and the accuracy of the O2 IMO makes it a very good synergistic pair. Sounds excellent with both the HD800/LCD-2, which IMO is quite a feat as it's very hard to build a rig that sounds right for both of these headphones!


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





c61746961 said:


> Is there an option to have both a 3.5 mm output and RCA outputs?


 
   
  Yes, all will have 3.5mm on the front (with USB), and RCA jacks on the rear.
   
   


loligagger said:


> Would it be possible to put the RCA outputs and USB input on the same face?


 
   
  There's no room on the front for RCA jacks. Custom builds are actually pretty easy for us now with the CNC. But this just isn't a physical possibility, sorry!


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> What do you guys think about coupling the ODAC with another amp than the O2? At this stage I'm thinking about a cheap amp until the ODA gets available and I have more funds to invest.


 
   
  Supposing that your goal is to own the ODAC + O2 combo, getting the ODAC first is probably doing it backwards.  For more headphones and setups, it's more important to have an amp that can run them properly.
   
  That said, if you don't need a portable amp, by waiting several months, you could get the ODA instead of the O2 (assuming you still want one of the two).  It shouldn't sound any better than the O2, but it's the upcoming official desktop version which should have a few desktop convenience tweaks for probably a similar or slightly higher cost.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> Supposing that your goal is to own the ODAC + O2 combo, getting the ODAC first is probably doing it backwards.  For more headphones and setups, it's more important to have an amp that can run them properly.
> 
> That said, if you don't need a portable amp, by waiting several months, you could get the ODA instead of the O2 (assuming you still want one of the two).  It shouldn't sound any better than the O2, but it's the upcoming official desktop version which should have a few desktop convenience tweaks for probably a similar or slightly higher cost.


 
  I don't really think it's doing it backwards because if you don't have a proper source, in this case the broadly used Realtek chip, an amp can't do that much with it. Al tough I have read an amp can be beneficiary but it's better to have good source, like the one the ODAC provides. Simply said I need a DAC anyway. I can just buy a Fiio E10 but I tend to invest in a good DAC directly.

 When I look at the DIY project for the O2 I wanna start tomorrow al tough I have zero experience in soldering, it's just fun challenge to create this thing by myself. But I'm not really sure about the way the power is provided for the O2.
   
   
  Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I use the ODAC with my Neco Soundlab V.3 portable (with dual AD8610 opamps).. more often than with the O2, in fact.  The V.3 is very neutral, but has a wonderful touch of smoothness and delicate warmth that's almost "Burson-esque."  Its spacious soundstage & excellent channel separation lends itself well to the ODAC crisp, high resolution output.


 
  With cheap I actually mean really cheap , like Fiio E6 cheap . The Neco has the same pricepoint as the O2 more or less. But thanks for the idea anyway it sounds like a pretty neat amp and the warmth sounds great to my ears.
   
  I was thinking. Maybe I can run a headphone directly from the ODAC? The sound can be controlled from the computer because the 24bit can handle that kind of loss of quality.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> I was thinking. Maybe I can run a headphone directly from the ODAC? The sound can be controlled from the computer because the 24bit can handle that kind of loss of quality.


 
  Nope, dont.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> I was thinking. Maybe I can run a headphone directly from the ODAC? The sound can be controlled from the computer because the 24bit can handle that kind of loss of quality.


 
   
  Bad idea.  Don't blow up your headphones.


----------



## brat

I've never read any reviews or opinions for ODAC. But I had the opportunity to hear it and after some minutes of listening and comparisons I can tell that I've never heard a biggest discrepancy between fame and sound. That's the bad thing.  The good thing is that there's a good correlation between price and sound )
  It's just a mediocre cheap dac. It may be better than other cheap dacs but nothing more.


----------



## c61746961

Care to elaborate?


----------



## fenderf4i

Must be too transparent for him.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> Must be too transparent for him.


 
   
  Doubtful. And that would then depend on his source. 


 Brat (I feel rude), could you please elaborate the setup you heard the ODAC on, and what you did not like about it?
   
   
  EDIT: I meant upstream of his DAC (audio files/media players).


----------



## fenderf4i

The transparency of the DAC depends on the source? That makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## Deathwish238

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> The transparency of the DAC depends on the source? That makes no sense whatsoever.


 
  lol...pretty sure most people will refer to the DAC as the source. Unless he means the audio file...in which case that's still makes little sense


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> The transparency of the DAC depends on the source? That makes no sense whatsoever.


 
   
  Sorry. I meant that with a lossless well-recorded track, a transparent DAC will not be detrimental.


----------



## bobeau

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Sorry. I meant that with a lossless well-recorded track, a transparent DAC will not be detrimental.


 
   
  Also the transport... the whole jitter thing if the DAC doesn't do a good job at handling it.


----------



## sorue

Guys, keep in mind that Brat's using a usd8000 dac in his main system


----------



## Anaxilus

I still don't get how people are comparing the Dragonfly to the ODAC.  How are people avoiding the integrated amp on the Dragonfly to ascertain their conclusions?  They aren't I presume.
   
  Also the Phonitor/Auditor is decent w/ the HD800 but nothing I'd call 'ruthless'.  There's better for the money though I'd still like a Phonitor for the pretty gauges and dials.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> There's better for the money though I'd still like a Phonitor for the pretty gauges and dials.


 
   
  What would you consider better for the money, out of curiosity?

 I pretty much bought it because of the pretty gauges and dials.  Oh, and the crossfeed's a neat little magic trick.  It's a cool toy.


----------



## brat

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Doubtful. And that would then depend on his source.
> 
> 
> Brat (I feel rude), could you please elaborate the setup you heard the ODAC on, and what you did not like about it?
> ...


 
  Now my usual systems are:
   
  1.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->Violectric V200-->Audez'e LCD-2r2 / AKG K701
  2.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->SDaudio DX801 integrated stereo amp (made by the founder of Analog Domain )-->Duevel Planets speakers
   
  The ODAC was not transparent at all. During swaps between my dac and ODAC I always felt like 40% ot the sound information disappeared, The ODAC sounded flat and two-dimentional. It may be better measured than most of the cheap soundcards but it sounds pretty the same to me  And note: I'm NOT a detail lover at all! I just miss a large part of the musical information with this ODAC. It's not a bad source at all, maybe it is good for the money but this is just a mediocre usb dac. Do not delude yourself that it's something more than this. Sorry if I'm rude but I'm honest at least. It's always useful to have honest opinions to avoid some illusions...


----------



## gnarlsagan

Quote: 





brat said:


> Now my usual systems are:
> 
> 1.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->Violectric V200-->Audez'e LCD-2r2 / AKG K701
> 2.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->SDaudio DX801 integrated stereo amp (made by the founder of Analog Domain )-->Duevel Planets speakers
> ...


 
   
  What part of the frequency spectrum disappeared? The bass? What kinds of specific things could you no longer hear in the music? Maybe a background noise like a pedal or a breath perhaps...


----------



## Deathwish238

Quote: 





brat said:


> Now my usual systems are:
> 
> 1.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->Violectric V200-->Audez'e LCD-2r2 / AKG K701
> 2.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->SDaudio DX801 integrated stereo amp (made by the founder of Analog Domain )-->Duevel Planets speakers
> ...


 
   
  lol 40%? Are you telling me 90% of people commenting in this thread about their impressions have absolutely no idea what they're talking about?
  I've never heard the Weis or the ODAC, but both having a similar ESS chip it would be amazing to hear that much of a difference. What would you recommend for $200, opposed to the $7000 Weis?
   
   
   


brat said:


> Now my usual systems are:
> 
> 1.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->Violectric V200-->Audez'e LCD-2r2 / AKG K701
> 2.PC (Windows 7 64bit, foobar2000(KS), lossless files or CDs)-->firewire/USB-->Weis DAC202U (with Furman Elite 16 PFEi power codnitioner)-->SDaudio DX801 integrated stereo amp (made by the founder of Analog Domain )-->Duevel Planets speakers
> ...


 
   
  How can you not be a detail lover? What then do you love about music to spend more on a DAC than most people do on a home theater setup?


----------



## brat

Quote: 





gnarlsagan said:


> What part of the frequency spectrum disappeared? The bass? What kinds of specific things could you no longer hear in the music? Maybe a background noise like a pedal or a breath perhaps...


 

 It's not a part of the audible frequencies... it's difficult to explain. ODAC gives all the music but in a more "schematic" manner, with less details, less realism, less 3D. I and two friends of mine have made direct comparison with my dac and two AD1860-based DIY dacs (about $150 each) and all they were far better than the ODAC. The difference was huge. The three dacs had similar sonic characteristics and the ODAC was quite different. It sounded _right_ and had correct FR but nothing more.
  I don't want to make some owners unhappy but it's good for the future users to know that this dac is not a giant killer at all.


----------



## fenderf4i

If you're so sure of this, then take NwAvGuy up on his blind test challenge.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





brat said:


> It's not a part of the audible frequencies... it's difficult to explain. ODAC gives all the music but in a more "schematic" manner, with less details, less realism, less 3D. I and two friends of mine have made direct comparison with my dac and two AD1860-based DIY dacs (about $150 each) and all they were far better than the ODAC. The difference was huge. The three dacs had similar sonic characteristics and the ODAC was quite different. It sounded _right_ and had correct FR but nothing more.
> I don't want to make some owners unhappy but it's good for the future users to know that this dac is not a giant killer at all.


 

 Which DIY DAC's?


----------



## brat

I'm open to all kinds of tests. Give me a link, please.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





brat said:


> it's not a part of the audible frequencies...


 
  Uh.... I know this MIGHT just be nitpicking, but... Don't you think that's a bit of a terrible way to start an explanation about how something sounds...


----------



## brat

Quote: 





lukeahale said:


> Uh.... I know this MIGHT just be nitpicking, but... Don't you think that's a bit of a terrible way to start an explanation about how something sounds...


 

 What I mean is that ODAC has no audible FR problems (Benchmark DAC1 has substantial bass deficit for instance).


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





brat said:


> What I mean is that ODAC has no audible FR problems (Benchmark DAC1 has substantial bass deficit for instance).


 
  I see.  Well to this I have a follow-up question.  Could you perhaps provide a link or other evidence to show this dip in the freq response of the DAC1?(because to me deficit means it would drop below flat, not that it doesn't have a boost in the bass region)


----------



## brat

Quote: 





lukeahale said:


> I see.  Well to this I have a follow-up question.  Could you perhaps provide a link or other evidence to show this dip in the freq response of the DAC1?


 
  No, I can't. I doubt I will find visible proof for this audible fact  You know that FR graphs of all contemporary digital sources are pretty the same in the bass area (they're almost flat in the whole audible area in fact). But all we hear the FR differences between sources. I think everyone here who has listened to Benchmark DAC1 will agree that it has somewhat anemic bass compared to many other popular (and also well measured) digital sources. Anyone who thinks that DAC1 is a bass monster?


----------



## fenderf4i

You're just proving that anything you say has no merit whatsoever. Keep going!

Also, this is something funny you said, which seems to contradict what you're saying here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/584339/review-resolution-audio-cantata-music-center-dac-cd-player/60#post_8508122

Are all DAC's close, or is there a 40% difference???


----------



## lukeahale

Maybe he means all DACs are close only in the unimportant audible frequencies, and the 40% difference applies to that oh-so-critical "not part of the audible frequencies" aspect of the sound.
   
  I'm all ears (err...eyes?) Mr. brat.  Please, expand our minds.


----------



## Rithrin

Quote: 





brat said:


> What I mean is that ODAC has no audible FR problems (Benchmark DAC1 has substantial bass deficit for instance).


 
   
  Lololololol. 
   
  The Benchmark Dac1 was my favorite DAC after hearing it FOUR years ago before all this fuss started. Then I got into head-fi. It was pretty clear even before NwAvGuy showed up it was pretty much the best the market had to offer (especially at its time).
   
  NwAvGuy literally shut down AN ENTIRE shrouded and illusioned "Hi Fi" market. It is no more. All that exists are those who like $1200 + tubes, which are NOT accurate representations of music.
   
  Have fun with your tubes. The other 3,600 of us who've bought ODAC's now, will shut up quiet and continue to enjoy our ODACs, (which is for all practical intents the most accurate DAC on the planet) which I HAVE BLIND TESTED with others against the Benchmark Dac1.
   
  Go read NwAvGuys blog or read Innerfidelity and it's confirmation and affirmation of all the [practical / truthful] measurements.
   
  Voldemort did a big service to the entire "Hi Fi" community that was throwing money away (myself included [10's of thousands of dollars in headphone, dacs, estats, all of them, you name it, all the way up to Orpheus] for the last four years) is sure to reverberate for years and perhaps decades to come. The fools and the uneducated will continue to throw money away, and that is it. Many have moved on and have not commented about the odac. Those are hard numbers by the way.
   
  If you _like_ your music colored or are used to your speakers or headphones then so be it. The rest of us will enjoy an inarguably as near humanly (practically) perfect DAC you can get. And for nothing, pretty well as a gift, almost no money! [Not that 100-150$ doesn't hold value] But for many of us, we're more than grateful this is the new ceiling. There is no reason to spend more for the everyday, casual, or deciphering engineer.
   
  Price means just as much as performance. Fortunately here you get the MAXIMUM of both. Less than 3% of odac owners have said anything about it. We're all just amazed, and now we all know that everybody already knows about it anyway.
   
  The rest (others) are a dying breed. (And good riddance to spending 2+ - 10K or more on individual setups.
   
  The best part is the ODAC can dac anything, from Speakers to dynamics to EStats, it does it all. 
   
  Source first, then headphones / w/e casual listening medium you'll use. Your source can make almost anything sound good.
  Even a little cheesy 2.1 speaker setup, which I've finally downgraded to. The ODAC has allowed me [and literal hordes of others] to move on with my life.


----------



## lukeahale

Another point to add to your quite lovely post that I think well represents most of us who are sitting back, quietly enjoying our ODACs and O2s.  I find one of the coolest things about the designer of our Objective DAC, is that if at some point, it turns out that there is another measurement that is discovered that reveals something that does in fact hurt the sound (not likely, but possible), I bet the first person to make sure and take that measurement to test it, is NwAvGuy himself.  Just some food for thought.


----------



## brat

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> Also, this is something funny you said, which seems to contradict what you're saying here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/584339/review-resolution-audio-cantata-music-center-dac-cd-player/60#post_8508122


 
  It's good to delve into this. It's true. Evaluating sources (or cables, or anything else) with headphones can be misleading. Unless you use only headphones and never speakers. Then you can be satisfied even with ODAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I've said my opinion about ODAC. I do not want to persuade anybody.
  Enough.
  I'm out of this thread


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





rithrin said:


> The Benchmark Dac1 was my favorite DAC after hearing it FOUR years ago before all this fuss started. Then I got into head-fi. It was pretty clear even before NwAvGuy showed up it was pretty much the best the market had to offer (especially at its time).
> 
> NwAvGuy literally shut down AN ENTIRE shrouded and illusioned "Hi Fi" market. It is no more. All that exists are those who like $1200 + tubes, which are NOT accurate representations of music.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Firstly, a DAC converts digital to analog, which mean it will serve as a source for anything that needs an analog signal. The ODAC is not special in that regard.
   
   
  Secondly, for all your idolism of the most extreme objectivist in the audiophile world at the moment, you have been very subjective in your argument. "Literal hordes" and "sure to reverbate for years and perhaps decades to come"? Calling those with Hi-Fi gear a "dying breed" should also be supported by objective evidence if it is to be taken seriously.
   
  Voldemort has created a very nice product, at a very attractive price, but he has not "shut down an entire shrouded and illusioned 'Hi-Fi' market". There are still high-end DAC's, both tube and SS, being bought and sold today. When someone wants a nice DAC for a home setup, they commonly look elsewhere. Why? Because although the ODAC measures very well, it lacks the inputs and flexibility that many desire.
   
  Also, many of the threads in the Sound Science forum are about if we can hear a difference between the ODAC and a higher-end DAC _if they measure the same_. The ODAC is not alone in being "the most accurate DAC on the planet". The top DAC's measure so similarly as to be supposedly inaudible. Voldemort should have said the same in his blog. After your blind testing, I assume you arrived at this conclusion as well?
   
  Can you please show me where you came to the 3600 ODAC users and 3%? I am actually curious about this one. Also, could you explain what figures your "hard numbers" was referencing?
   
  I respect that the you love your ODAC very much, and believe it measures incredibly well. Please maintain the same respect for others on the forums. Your "fools and the uneducated" include many respected members, and basically insults anyone who purchases a DAC other than the ODAC. As I mentioned above, even if the two DAC's measure the same, the lack of features on the ODAC might be a deal-breaker for some. There were some strange opinions posted above yours, but there is no need to get personal.
   
  Not even going to comment on "inarguably ... near perfect" DAC. If you are unwilling to even consider another view, it is not worth my time.
   


 No offense was intended in this post. I am sorry if any was perceived.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Secondly, for all your idolism of the most extreme objectivist in the audiophile world at the moment, you have been very subjective in your argument. "Literal hordes" and "sure to reverbate for years and perhaps decades to come"? Calling those with Hi-Fi gear a "dying breed" should also be supported by objective evidence if it is to be taken seriously.


 
  This is honestly a bit of a straw man argument.  Not to say that I don't agree with many of your points also, but I just feel this part was a bit unnecessary. (Though to be fair, it also wasn't really necessary for him to make those comments, and didn't help his point either, lol)


----------



## lukeahale

Of course by my own logic, that comment by me just now wasn't really necessary or helpful either... but whatever, we all make mistakes.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

To the people saying that brat is full of it....have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has. Brat came here and left his opinion, after ACTUALLY HEARING ALL THE DEVICES IN QUESTION. So berating him, probably the person most capable of saying how good the dac is, compared to others who havent heard higher end dacs, is a bit of an indefensible position.
   
  Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it. And im not saying the ODAC is a terrible dac, it's probably a perfectly respectable dac for the money, a good value even. but that doesnt mean its the end all be all of dacs, and parroting Nwavguy's party line doesnt really prove you know what you're talking about either.


----------



## tzjin

To be fair Rithrin claims to have heard the Benchmark DAC1, and Brat was a bit unclear in his allegations.
   
  But I agree with your post.


----------



## ChicaneBT

@tzjin
  If you only were this meticulous at criticizing the posts of brat. But strangely enough you didn't.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> @tzjin
> If you only were this meticulous at criticizing the posts of brat. But strangely enough you didn't.


 
   
  It had already been done quite thoroughly. But yes, his arguments weren't stellar.


----------



## muad

I agree, it will be nice to have the odac in the oda to get some premp functionality! What other features were you referring to?
   
  thanks


> As I mentioned above, even if the two DAC's measure the same, the lack of features on the ODAC might be a deal-breaker for some.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> To the people saying that brat is full of it....have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has. Brat came here and left his opinion, after ACTUALLY HEARING ALL THE DEVICES IN QUESTION. So berating him, probably the person most capable of saying how good the dac is, compared to others who havent heard higher end dacs, is a bit of an indefensible position.
> 
> Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it. And im not saying the ODAC is a terrible dac, it's probably a perfectly respectable dac for the money, a good value even. but that doesnt mean its the end all be all of dacs, and parroting Nwavguy's party line doesnt really prove you know what you're talking about either.


 
  Just because he says he has heard them does not mean it is true.  On the same token, just because others have not explicitly stated that they HAVE heard more expensive(not necessarily better) also does not mean they have not. So that doesn't really prove a point either, though generally we all seem to trust people are being relatively honest with us here. 
   
  My main reason for commenting on the statements of brat were mainly to point out that many of the claims he was making are completely absurd, regardless of what he thinks of the ODAC.  To claim that something that is "not a part of the audible frequencies" is of more importance than the audible frequencies, when it comes to audio/sound/music a.k.a. things that you hear or are AUDIBLE.... that's the point of a post to where everything that follows has been basically discredited.  And sadly enough, that was his very first sentence.  This is why I find his opinions less valid, regardless of what other equipment he may have (or just claimed to have) heard.


----------



## fenderf4i

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> To the people saying that brat is full of it....have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has. Brat came here and left his opinion, after ACTUALLY HEARING ALL THE DEVICES IN QUESTION. So berating him, probably the person most capable of saying how good the dac is, compared to others who havent heard higher end dacs, is a bit of an indefensible position.
> 
> Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it. And im not saying the ODAC is a terrible dac, it's probably a perfectly respectable dac for the money, a good value even. but that doesnt mean its the end all be all of dacs, and parroting Nwavguy's party line doesnt really prove you know what you're talking about either.


 
  A sighted, biased comparison means just as little as having never heard them at all.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





lukeahale said:


> Just because he says he has heard them does not mean it is true.  On the same token, just because others have not explicitly stated that they HAVE heard more expensive(not necessarily better) also does not mean they have not. So that doesn't really prove a point either, though generally we all seem to trust people are being relatively honest with us here.
> 
> My main reason for commenting on the statements of brat were mainly to point out that many of the claims he was making are completely absurd, regardless of what he thinks of the ODAC.  To claim that something that is "not a part of the audible frequencies" is of more importance than the audible frequencies, when it comes to audio/sound/music a.k.a. things that you hear or are AUDIBLE.... that's the point of a post to where everything that follows has been basically discredited.  And sadly enough, that was his very first sentence.  This is why I find his opinions less valid, regardless of what other equipment he may have (or just claimed to have) heard.


 
   
  My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience. 
   
  Its totally fine that you are happy with what you have, as i said im sure its a solid dac for very little money. But that doesnt mean there isnt better.
   
  it also doesnt mean that you can bring down other people, just because they happen to have better equipment. I know everyone wants to believe that they can get the best of the best for 150 dollars, its a cute dream, but that is really all it is.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience.
> 
> Its totally fine that you are happy with what you have, as i said im sure its a solid dac for very little money. But that doesnt mean there isnt better.
> 
> it also doesnt mean that you can bring down other people, just because they happen to have better equipment. I know everyone wants to believe that they can get the best of the best for 150 dollars, its a cute dream, but that is really all it is.


 
  Once again you are making assumptions about what people have or have not heard, and what experience people do or do not have. 
   
  Just because someone (myself for example) has not been a very active member of Head-Fi, nor even a member for very long, does not mean we have little/no experience.  Just because someone only has a few items listed in their current equipment, again, does not prove they have never owned/heard expensive equipment.  You make a lot of assumptions, and that's one of the main differences with this whole Subjective/Objective thing... Objective is based almost solely on evidence, subjective tends to be based on a lot of unproven assumptions, with very little real evidence.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> have any of you actually heard any higher end dacs? cause if not you're living in a bit of a smug world of naivete just assuming that what you have is better or at least as good as anything anyone else has.
> 
> Maybe you should go listen to better equipment before you start saying that it isnt worth it.


 
   
  This is pathological on Head-Fi.  Let's all make broad blanket generalizations about stuff we've never heard before.
   
  Even if the ODAC is the greatest thing since sliced bread, if you're going to argue that it's objectively no worse and no better than any high-end DAC, then let's see some data to back that up.  Objectivity cuts both ways.  If you claim to know something I don't, then you'd better damn well show me some proof.
   
  Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience.


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/619534/i-dont-understand-you-subjective-guys/45#post_8557259
   
  As it would turn out, majority of the people parroting on and on about measurements know very little about measurements to begin with.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





lukeahale said:


> Once again you are making assumptions about what people have or have not heard, and what experience people do or do not have.


 
   
  Im merely going by what my eyes have seen, most the people posting impressions of the odac arent comparing it to anything. And the two people that i have seen compare it to other higher end gear, like anaxilus and Brat, both said it was pretty average, which is about when the soap boxes of objectivity get rolled out...
   
  Oh, i guess lots of people have been comparing it to the Bifrost, but that isnt exactly high end either.
   
   
  I dont know if you dont get this...but im not saying its a bad dac, i have even said that it is most likely a great value. My argument is that it isnt the best dac ever, which is what you are trying to say


----------



## Audiodoc

While it is true that the ODAC is a USB only DAC and lacks features like spdif, optical inputs, wifi etc., one has to admit that such a compact and value for money circuit is extracting the last bit of juice that the actual chip is capable of.

I have the ODAC as well as many other DACs upto $400 however the former is the most transparent of them. Although I may enjoy the coloured signatures of the latter for certain genres of music however that is a personnel preference. 

One more aspect that is not much discussed on head fi is the variability of human auditory acuity. With increasing age the 20 hertz to 20 kHz audio spectrum gets shrinked to say 50 hertz to 12 kHz. A senior headfier may hear things differently than a young one. So one should not comment very aggressively about anything until he has passed an audiometry test followed by blind subjective testing keeping all the other variables (source materials, interconnects, amplifiers, headphones) common.

I would like many more objective DACs based on other DAC chips from Wolfson, analog devices, cirrus logic etc which yield results comparable to there published specifications. Then one may blind test to check whether one hears any differences if present.

Certainly the ODAC is not the end of the road of measurable performance however it may be so with regard to auditory perception by listeners. The former statement should be tested by unbiased blind testing with higher end DACs. After all what fun is it if your system can play upto 50 kHz when humans cant hear the same.


----------



## lukeahale

I would be very happy to continue this debate, but the direction it is going is only going to lead to this forum being moved to Sound Science to die like many others have, so, call it a cop-out if you wish, but I am done arguing.  This debate is never going to die, so why bother?


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> My main argument is that many of you seem to be standing up on your soap box of objectivity, with little to no experience.
> 
> Its totally fine that you are happy with what you have, as i said im sure its a solid dac for very little money. But that doesnt mean there isnt better.
> 
> it also doesnt mean that you can bring down other people, just because they happen to have better equipment. I know everyone wants to believe that they can get the best of the best for 150 dollars, its a cute dream, but that is really all it is.


 
  Your main argument is not valid. Why? Because you don't know, it's just a thought of you. Which is not necessarily a problem, but it in this instance it definitely is because it's your main argument.
   
  There can be better, but at what price. In the last few post people don't say there is nothing better, they refute the opinion that the ODAC is a bad DAC.
   
  Benchmarks show the ODAC is on par with the DAC1 Pre. Unless you can refute these findings their is no basis to make a claim like you make in your last sentence.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> I dont know if you dont get this...but im not saying its a bad dac, i have even said that it is most likely a great value. My argument is that it isnt the best dac ever, which is what you are trying to say


 
  Well, if you will perhaps look back, I myself have never claimed I believed it to be the best dac ever.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





audiodoc said:


> Certainly the ODAC is not the end of the road of measurable performance however it may be so with regard to auditory perception by listeners. The former statement should be tested by unbiased blind testing with higher end DACs. After all what fun is it if your system can play upto 50 kHz when humans cant hear the same.


 
   
  oh its definitely not the end of the road for objective measurable performance, even the DAC1 has better measurements, which Nwavguy will readily admit. But look at something like the Anedio D2, built and designed as a high end DAC, but it was built with by a very engineering focused company, just reading through their website gives that impression. Not to mention the extreme measurable performance of the dac, im not sure any dac can beat it in measurements. Some come close though.
   
  I do agree that there is a bit to much audiophile tomfoolery out there, specially in dacs. i think there are high end dacs being made by people who dont really know what they are doing. But there are also, very engineering focused companies that also make very high end dacs, such as Lavry, EMM, and Weiss(which makes the dac that brat uses) and i would include Anedio on that list.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





audiodoc said:


> I have the ODAC as well as many other DACs upto $400 however the former is the most transparent of them. Although I may enjoy the coloured signatures of the latter for certain genres of music however that is a personnel preference.


 
  With what kind of music genres you don't like the ODAC?


----------



## Audiodoc

Treble rich tracks (mostly badly recorded stuff, oldies and Compressed heavy metal tracks). The revealing / transparent nature of the ODAC makes listening to them quiet fatiguing. The HM601 DAP with its warm presentation and high frequency slope is quite forgiving in this regard.

For downloads from HDtracks ODAC sounds great but some 24/96 tracks from some other sources have a audible noise floor. Again a side effect of the ODAC transparency.

I tested some silence wav files and the ODAC was dead silent even at very high volume. Tested with multiple head amplifiers EHHA, FiiO E7 , E9, DIY A1, FiiO E 11.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





audiodoc said:


> Treble rich tracks (mostly badly recorded stuff, oldies and Compressed heavy metal tracks). The revealing / transparent nature of the ODAC makes listening to them quiet fatiguing. The HM601 DAP with its warm presentation and high frequency slope is quite forgiving in this regard.
> For downloads from HDtracks ODAC sounds great but some 24/96 tracks from some other sources have a audible noise floor. Again a side effect of the ODAC transparency.
> I tested some silence wav files and the ODAC was dead silent even at very high volume. Tested with multiple head amplifiers EHHA, FiiO E7 , E9, DIY A1, FiiO E 11.


 
  I am in 100% agreement with this, though personally I find it has moreso increased my avoidance of lower quality music, more than to want more colored/less transparent equipment.
   
  Actually, I really wish there was a way to put an EQ between the different programs I use and the ODAC in Windows, I bet I could use that to solve a lot of the issues with those type of tracks... anyone have an idea?


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





lukeahale said:


> I am in 100% agreement with this, though personally I find it has moreso increased my avoidance of lower quality music, more than to want more colored/less transparent equipment.
> 
> Actually, I really wish there was a way to put an EQ between the different programs I use and the ODAC in Windows, I bet I could use that to solve a lot of the issues with those type of tracks... anyone have an idea?


 
   
  You mean an EQ for everything that's running on your computer?


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> You mean an EQ for everything that's running on your computer?


 
  Yup, I would absolutely love to find something that could serve as a system-wide EQ.  Sadly I have not found such a thing to exist.


----------



## Baxide

I use the EQ in Mediamonkey for that.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





lukeahale said:


> Yup, I would absolutely love to find something that could serve as a system-wide EQ.  Sadly I have not found such a thing to exist.


 

 I actually don't know which EQ's are good. I used to use one on my old computer to lower the bass of my pc speakers sub. You could try to Google it, search here on Head-fi and if you're not sure yet ask it on the forum .


----------



## tzjin

EQ'ing with ODAC? Blasphemy.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Haha


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> EQ'ing with ODAC? Blasphemy.


 
   
  lol, touché.


----------



## fenderf4i

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> EQ'ing with ODAC? Blasphemy.


 
   
   
  Not at all! EQ'ing with transparent equipment means you only have to EQ the music and speakers/headphones, not the components in between.
   
  I would much rather make adjustments with a proper EQ than replacing equipment to do the same thing.


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> Not at all! EQ'ing with transparent equipment means you only have to EQ the music and speakers/headphones, not the components in between.
> 
> I would much rather make adjustments with a proper EQ than replacing equipment to do the same thing.


 
   
  It goes completely against it's designer's mindset though. EQ'ing will also slightly degrade audio quality, as any extra processing will.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> It goes completely against it's designer's mindset though. EQ'ing will also slightly degrade audio quality, as any extra processing will.


 
   
  Not if you use it on already bad sources like low bitrate MP3 and YouTube for which he wants to use it. You probably won't hear the slight degrading in quality but you will enjoy the more forgiving effect the EQ has .


----------



## tzjin

Sigh. The ODAC is hardly your best choice for DAC then...


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> Sigh. The ODAC is hardly your best choice for DAC then...


 
  Why is that?


----------



## fenderf4i

lol you have no idea what you're talking about. I did a quick search, and this is from NwAvGuy himself in one of his articles:

AMPS & DACS MAKE LOUSY EQUALIZERS: If you want to alter the sound a much better method than using a colored amp or DAC is using EQ. That’s what it’s for. There are even decent EQ apps for iOS and Android. For those purists who somehow think DSP or EQ is wrong, odds are your favorite music has already had significant DSP and/or EQ applied. There’s an example in the Tech Section showing even two passes of digital EQ are entirely transparent. Using a headphone amp to compensate for a flaw with your headphones is like buying a music player that can only play one song.


----------



## tzjin

A more forgiving DAC won't show all of those imperfections.


----------



## lukeahale

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> A more forgiving DAC won't show all of those imperfections.


 
  This is true, however it's not as if I intend to ONLY listen to bad sources.  I would rather have an accurate, flat DAC that I can then color as I see fit for my lower quality sources, than to have to juggle DACs.  With EQ I can add color to an accurate DAC... But I can't take a "more forgiving" DAC and somehow add accuracy.


----------



## tzjin

Color still doesn't hide the lack of resolution on a compressed track though. Well technically, you could "uncolor" a colored DAC


----------



## Deathwish238

souprknowva said:


> Im merely going by what my eyes have seen, most the people posting impressions of the odac arent comparing it to anything. And the two people that i have seen compare it to other higher end gear, like anaxilus and Brat, both said it was pretty average, which is about when the soap boxes of objectivity get rolled out...
> 
> Oh, i guess lots of people have been comparing it to the Bifrost, but that isnt exactly high end either.
> 
> ...


 
  What irks me about Brat's post is that he made a large statement with no details to really back it up.
   
  I don't know if an ODAC is better than the Weiss DAC202U or the Ayon Skylla 2, but I would love an actual detailed comparison. Not some a statement as usless as the ODAC is missing 40% of the sound heard from the DAC202U.
  "ODAC gives all the music but in a more "schematic" manner, with less details, less realism, less 3D"
Less Details in what?
Less Realism in what?
Less 3D in what?
   
Give example of songs, instruments, etc...


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





deathwish238 said:


> What irks me about Brat's post is that he made a large statement with no details to really back it up.
> 
> I don't know if an ODAC is better than the Weiss DAC202U or the Ayon Skylla 2, but I would love an actual detailed comparison. Not some a statement as usless as the ODAC is missing 40% of the sound heard from the DAC202U.
> "ODAC gives all the music but in a more "schematic" manner, with less details, less realism, less 3D"
> ...


 
   
  Brat's comment didn't actually make that much sense, so I'm doubting anybody will be able to explain that 40%. But yes, I would also like to see a comparison between the ODAC and higher end DAC's.


----------



## sorue

If Brat feels that the ODAC is only 40% of his Weiss DAC202, that's not too bad considering the Weiss is about 4000% more expensive than the ODAC.


----------



## mmayer167

I have been quietly enjoying my ODAC and have had it since it first arrived on scene. I have not heard a DAC costing over 500 dollars but the ODAC does as good of job as any other DAC I have heard in representing what was recorded, IMO. I am a fan of detail and true representation, thus the ODAC is wonderful for my tastes. If you want to argue or dispute the value, or benefit of the ODAC just take it to a PM or start a new thread specific to this debate. This is a brief impressions thread not an overall discussion thread. I check in here once and a while to see what some new opinions are, and this is just a pain to wade through (granted some of the past few pages is in some ways impression). Some of your points are valid and worthy of discussion, don't take this the wrong way, but nuwavguy has done many people a large favor in providing an affordable usable, and may I add, excellent sounding DAC for the money to the scene (again, just my opinion). Don't like it, cool, then move along and let us who are happy with an ODAC and our perception of it's performance/price point discuss it. I mean not to start a war but to reign in the space bound rocket headed towards a black hole that is probably going to close this thread...
   
  Cheers,
   
  -M


----------



## tzjin

Quote: 





mmayer167 said:


> I have been quietly enjoying my ODAC and have had it since it first arrived on scene. I have not heard a DAC costing over 500 dollars but the ODAC does as good of job as any other DAC I have heard in representing what was recorded, IMO. I am a fan of detail and true representation, thus the ODAC is wonderful for my tastes. If you want to argue or dispute the value, or benefit of the ODAC just take it to a PM or start a new thread specific to this debate. This is a brief impressions thread not an overall discussion thread. I check in here once and a while to see what some new opinions are, and this is just a pain to wade through (granted some of the past few pages is in some ways impression). Some of your points are valid and worthy of discussion, don't take this the wrong way, but nuwavguy has done many people a large favor in providing an affordable usable, and may I add, excellent sounding DAC for the money to the scene (again, just my opinion). Don't like it, cool, then move along and let us who are happy with an ODAC and our perception of it's performance/price point discuss it. I mean not to start a war but to reign in the space bound rocket headed towards a black hole that is probably going to close this thread...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -M


 
   
  Agree.


----------



## Anaxilus

60% (40% missing) for any DAC is awful no matter the cost.  I don't think the ODAC can keep up w/ my PWD but 60% is a silly number to me but it all depends on how one comes up w/ their personal metrics.  If I was forced to vomit a number it would be something like 85% give or take depending on who's doing the listening.  Those who also argue that last 10% or Nth isn't worth an extra grand or two are also making a subjective evaluation not worth much weight either IMO.  I think the only things that should be called out are erroneously bad sound/performance from bad designs at excessive costs.  Most of the DACs mentioned in the last few pages mentioned do none of those.


----------



## fenderf4i

Everything you just said was a subjective evaluation not worth much weight. 85% is a silly number to me. You sure did vomit a number, alright (among other things)!


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> Everything you just said was a subjective evaluation not worth much weight. 85% is a silly number to me. *You sure did vomit *a number, alright (among other things)!


 
   
  Looks like you decided to stand right in the middle of it by missing the point.  Good job, be sure to wipe down.


----------



## Sonicbooms

I received my Odac from jds labs today and have been enjoying it. I upgraded from a x-fi xtreme music soundcard and I am using foobar w/ wasapi listening with ath-m50 as well as infinity p163 bookshelf speakers and a marantz 2230 as the amp. Unfortunately I don't have much else to compare it to other than the x-fi card.
   
  The highs sound to me to be more detailed and but bordering on too bright. I haven't needed to eq it down yet so I'd say the highs are just about as bright as I can handle and enjoy for extended listening.
   
  The mids are where I noticed the biggest difference from the x-fi. I think x-fi muddied up the mids quite a bit and recessed them and since the m50's already have recessed mids imo I was starved for those frequencies. Now they sound much more up front and I no long feel the need to eq the mids up. 
   
  The lows are where I noticed the least change. It seems to be a little tighter and more controlled but its not as noticeable of a change as the mids and highs. 
   
  There was also a big improvement in soundstage. The instruments seem to have more space between them making them more identifiable as individual sounds whereas with the x-fi it seemed more like a "wall of sound". Hopefully that makes sense, I'm not used to describing sounds. 
   
  Overall I'm very pleased with purchase. I'd describe it (in relation to the x-fi) as cleaner all around with more pronounced/detailed mids and highs and better soundstage.


----------



## tzjin

Great impressions! I'm sure they mirror a lot of what others feel as well.
   
  Guys, don't make it personal. If you disagree, talk it out like mature adults.


----------



## Jimmy24

I'm having issues installing it on my Windows 7 computer. I paired it up with my O2 amp and followed all the instructions that it came with but my computer isn't installing it properly. This is what I'm getting when I try to install it.
   
   

   
  My drivers are updated.
   
  Anything will be helpful.
   
  EDIT: So I disconnected my O2 from my ODAC and tried different USB ports and to my surprise I got it working. Not sure if the O2 interfered with the installation or perhaps it might have been the USB port itself. About to listen to my first song!


----------



## gnarlsagan

Sometimes I have to try other usb ports or go to the device manager and uninstall the usb devices that have yellow exclamation marks next to them. They are at the bottom of the list. For some reason it seems like my computer treats each usb port as a totally seperate entity that requires new installation of the ODAC each time. Pretty annoying actually and I would appreciate a more permanent solution.


----------



## rhythmdevils

Inexperienced people hellbent on furthering a misinformed agenda doesn't make for the best discussion.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> 60% (40% missing) for any DAC is awful no matter the cost.  I don't think the ODAC can keep up w/ my PWD but 60% is a silly number to me but it all depends on how one comes up w/ their personal metrics.  If I was forced to vomit a number it would be something like 85% give or take depending on who's doing the listening.  Those who also argue that last 10% or Nth isn't worth an extra grand or two are also making a subjective evaluation not worth much weight either IMO.  I think the only things that should be called out are erroneously bad sound/performance from bad designs at excessive costs.  Most of the DACs mentioned in the last few pages mentioned do none of those.


 
  Come over a a blind test I set up. You'll easily be able to distinguish between the ODAC and PWD1/2.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Sounds like some people can't handle the truth .
   
  Get the party going again!


----------



## dadab12

The Odac get's better after alittle time, atleast for me it does.
  It's great value for the money and there is not alot of difference between the m-dac as I originally thought there was.
  The M-dac is better but not by such a big margin


----------



## AKG240mkII

Quote: 





> There are still high-end DAC's, both tube...


 
  You DO mean 'high-priced', right ?
  Valves are NOT 'high-end' .
  Yes, they are expensive, some of them very much so, but 'high-end' ??
  I don't think so and all measurements agree .
   
  Good thing is that the valve-craze lets us know who can't hear distortion when it hits them in the face !


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> Get the party going again!


 
   
*OT:*  ChicaneBT, do you happen to know where I can buy a legal copy/download of the version of Locking Down that was on Easy to Assemble?  I have the Greatest Hits but the version on that is just not the same.  Thanks!  Not putting this in PM *just in case* someone else is also curious.


----------



## purrin

Quote: 





brat said:


> No, I can't. I doubt I will find visible proof for this audible fact  You know that FR graphs of all contemporary digital sources are pretty the same in the bass area (they're almost flat in the whole audible area in fact). But all we hear the FR differences between sources. I think everyone here who has listened to Benchmark DAC1 will agree that it has somewhat anemic bass compared to many other popular (and also well measured) digital sources. Anyone who thinks that DAC1 is a bass monster?


 
   
  The DAC1 does sound deficient in the bass compared to many other DACs (I've heard quite a few) including the ODAC, which does sound a little different depending upon quality/juice of USB power. I've felt the ODAC sounded best out of my PC mobo's USB port than a out of a cheap laptop's USB port. The ODAC is pretty good and I felt it did beat a $700 and $3000 DAC (both DACs I've had the opportunity to audition in-home.)


----------



## TMRaven

Any comparisons of ODAC and Music Streamer II/II+?


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> *OT:*  ChicaneBT, do you happen to know where I can buy a legal copy/download of the version of Locking Down that was on Easy to Assemble?  I have the Greatest Hits but the version on that is just not the same.  Thanks!  Not putting this in PM *just in case* someone else is also curious.


 

*OT:* Easy to assemble was never released, as far as I know there are only promotional copies out there. After the complete promotional album was leaked on the internet the album was never released. I wouldn't know how you can buy one and how to find a copy in the first place.


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> *OT:* Easy to assemble was never released, as far as I know there are only promotional copies out there. After the complete promotional album was leaked on the internet the album was never released. I wouldn't know how you can buy one and how to find a copy in the first place.


 
   
*OT:*  Okay, just wondering if Locking Down was subsequently released online as a legal (purchaseable) download somewhere.  Thanks!


----------



## LCfiner

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Any comparisons of ODAC and Music Streamer II/II+?


 
   
  I have a MS2 now and will be getting the ODAC next week. I look to compare them. but I honestly don't expect _major_ revelations and I doubt I will be writing a lot of flowery prose about the differences I may hear. But I will be coming back to this thread once I do have the two in house.


----------



## MrGreen

When will nwavguy post the 16bit results he promised over a month ago?
  When will nwavguy fix his articles on tubes to reflect the existence of some tube amplifiers that perform as well as, or better than transistor amplifiers under REAL load (A lot of stax pairings come to mind)?
  When will nwavguy post real loads of the odac, or shed light on the loads used during his measurements? He mentioned he wished to do this in 2011.
 When will nwavguy admit that he has basically produced copies of the Coffee (which I believe outdates the odac by a year) and other pre-existing board?
  When will nwavguy admit that using a high quality chip surroudned by relatively poor components will still result in a fairly decent DAC? And that nothing he has done is close to original or revolutionary?
 When will nwavguy posts sources for his ideas like "Less than 0.001% of what is heard actually reaches the consciousness". Is he doing poor maths like, if you focus on a single line, then it's 1/20k, even though that's not actually true? What about musicians who are able to transcribe the majority of a piece in a single listening (seasoned jazz veterans come to mind)? Are they too only listening to 0.001%? Where are the sources?
 Why doesn't he use his cult-like following to discuss the validity of the measurements we use for headphones specifically? Which are in essence, designed strictly for loudspeakers? Although the mechanics are the same for the headphones, the parts of our head used are not; this is easily reflected in things like impulse and square wave resposne - which are radically affected by the huge amount of treble required by headphones to sound flat.
  Why doesn't he talk about the lack of standardisation of headphones?
  When will he talk about the transparency of anything below 1% THD, and how your headphones are always going to be the most limiting part of your setup?
   
  A lot of people here have bought everything he has said, when at it's core it is marketing. A lot of it is true - however it is entirely selective about which truths to share. 

 Anyone can gather the knowledge he has portrayed (and more) in a very short time if they had an interested and went to read about them. I'm sure many people here do. What many people do not do, is market the idea that using someone elses high end chip is an original idea, when it has existed in the community for a long time.


----------



## Anaxilus

Indeed.
   
  When is he going to fill out his 'complete profile' taking ownership of his words and actions instead of hiding.  
   
  When is he going to release his tax returns to prove zero profit motive rather than asking 'objectivists' to take his word on *faith *(which they have without question).


----------



## MrGreen

Haha.
   
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> When is he going to release his tax returns to prove zero profit motive rather than asking 'objectivists' to take his word on *faith *(which they have without question).


----------



## MomijiTMO

It's f##*#ng good marketing. His hardcore followers are very strong willed.


----------



## LoveKnight

Well, I think someone has gone too far. It is true that ODAC has its limit but it is an good DAC at a good price and if someone wants to compare ODACs to other more expensive DACs. They just go ahead and do that, those are their choices and their rights. I just want to mean that most of people here are contributors, or just customers look for the best things to hear at suitable prices. And if money is not important to someone than just buy anything that they think or truly is good. Everyone has their own measurements but I want to mention one thing. *ODACs are good products of course they are not the best out there but they cost only $150 for each one.*


----------



## gnarlsagan

mrgreen said:


> When will nwavguy post the 16bit results he promised over a month ago?
> When will nwavguy fix his articles on tubes to reflect the existence of some tube amplifiers that perform as well as, or better than transistor amplifiers under REAL load (A lot of stax pairings come to mind)?
> When will nwavguy post real loads of the odac, or shed light on the loads used during his measurements? He mentioned he wished to do this in 2011.
> 
> ...




Have you asked him in his thread on his site? He usually responds to all questions. If you ask a bit more objectively I'd bet you'd get an answer. Why are you so angry? Not at all an attack on you, I'm just genuinely curious. Are any other audio companies more open or objectively based than he is? He brings a strong argument with as many facts as are available and anyone is free to bring different information to the table that doesn't include or nessecitate character assassination. 



anaxilus said:


> Indeed.
> 
> When is he going to fill out his 'complete profile' taking ownership of his words and actions instead of hiding.
> 
> When is he going to release his tax returns to prove zero profit motive rather than asking 'objectivists' to take his word on *faith* (which they have without question).




It's possible he could be making a profit but his business model suggests he isn't. How would he be making money? The designs are available to everyone, and cheaply too. I'm all for warranted skepticism but it seems rather unlikely given the open nature of his projects. Anyone could measure these devices and post the results.

Character assassination is kind of a sign of desperation. If his facts are wrong lets discuss it. I have an O2 and ODAC and Iove them, but maybe we'll find out there is a flaw or a lack in the measurements. Could be totally possible.


----------



## rhythmdevils

Or a flaw in the logic/reasoning/common sense/intelligence/brain


----------



## MrGreen

Quote: 





gnarlsagan said:


> Have you asked him in his thread on his site? He usually responds to all questions. If you ask a bit more objectively I'd bet you'd get an answer. Why are you so angry? Not at all an attack on you, I'm just genuinely curious.


 
   
  I'm not sure where your "character assassination" of me has come from. I have simply highlighted, in a ruthless manner, the flaws of his presentation. His marketing, his omission of fundamental facts, choosing gear that suits him (his tube-defaming post, for example). Not to mention his rants about moderators on head-fi (for example, Kwkwarth(?) who I have been banned by repeatedly for arguing with him over LCD-2 measurements), which of course were objective and not all character assassination. Generally I waited for the ban to be removed, and I even spoke to jude about the moderation. What I did not do is start a blog "defaming" the moderators of head-fi (a site I don't particularly enjoy anymore because of the misinformation, parroting, and people who refuse to read readily available literature), and try to attack the work people are trying to make a profit on.

 If he is against the overpriced nature of gear, why is he not talking out about the very nature of capitalism? If he goes and gets any documentation of the expenses made by any chicken-based fast food chain for example, he will see how overpriced they are (I believe 200 tenderloins costs each chain about $34). To the consumer, that is probably about 12 tenderloins (I don't really eat chicken, or actually work in a chicken chain). I'm using readily available information.
   
  If the manner in which nwavguy has posted from the beginning is the greatest thing to ever happen to audio, then how are my questions also not a good step?
  Quote: 





gnarlsagan said:


> Are any other audio companies more open or objectively based than he is?


 
   
  - Stax provides meausrements of all their headphones, explaining why they measure like that. They also provide reactive load measurements (something I believe NWAVGUY does not do) for all their combos. I do think it's unfair to expect this of nwavguy though
  - Etymotic provides measurements of all their headphones, explaining why they measure like that.
  - Beyerdynamic explains the design philosophy and target curves of particular headphones, such as the DT880 and provides reason why a diffuse field curve is considered one of the several ideal curves
  - Echo provides real-world to AES standard measurements for their DACs, and will provide additional information and measurements if asked
  - Focusrite provides real-world to AES standard measurements with their interfaces, and also provides articles explaining what AES standards are, and why many measurements aren't to be trusted (eg. quoting chip specs).
  - Headphonic in Australia encourages measuring of headphones, and not only that openly encourages you to come in and listen to everything they sell, without imposing the need to purchase on you.
  - Tyll from InnerFidelity (previously headroom), measures a number of headphones. He will even openly discuss his measurement methods, in what ways they wish they were better, and even will discuss ways he could possibly improve them.

 What these people do not engage in, unlike Nwavguy, is the messiah-esque self-characterisation, with simple truths that everyone knows or can learn from any text. Nor do they engage in the explicit "character assassination" of people who are trying to help a community (like Kwkwarth).
   
   
  If nwavguy is so objectively based, then
   
   
  Quote:


> When will nwavguy post the 16bit results he promised over a month ago?
> When will nwavguy fix his articles on tubes to reflect the existence of some tube amplifiers that perform as well as, or better than transistor amplifiers under REAL load (A lot of stax pairings come to mind)?
> When will nwavguy post real loads of the odac, or shed light on the loads used during his measurements? He mentioned he wished to do this in 2011.
> When will nwavguy admit that he has basically produced copies of the Coffee (which I believe outdates the odac by a year) and other pre-existing board?
> ...


   
   
   
  Quote: 





> He brings a strong argument with as many facts as are available


 
   
  What he actually does is bring you ideas and knowledge that are freely available to everyone already. That many people on head-fi would gladly share if asked.

 What people on head-fi would not engage in (to my knowledge), is using these ideas to try and sell a product. Measurements and science are not marketing.


I haven't asked him on his site, because that gives his site publicity, and I do not wish to support his cause, because of the manner in which he is doing it.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Well, I think someone has gone too far. It is true that ODAC has its limit but it is an good DAC at a good price and if someone wants to compare ODACs to other more expensive DACs. They just go ahead and do that, those are their choices and their rights. I just want to mean that most of people here are contributors, or just customers look for the best things to hear at suitable prices. And if money is not important to someone than just buy anything that they think or truly is good. Everyone has their own measurements but I want to mention one thing. *ODACs are good products of course they are not the best out there but they cost only $150 for each one.*


 
  The product I use, an Echo Audiofire 12 contans 12 inputs (balanced) and 12 outputs (balanced). It costs about $500. It measures better than the odac, on all of these channels. That's 12 simultaneous 24/192 dac channels (Balanced), and 12 simultaneous 24/192 adc channels.

 I think you can see how much cheaper this is, per channel than the ODAC. 

 Echo is a business - they make profits. How do they provide superior performance per channel per dollar, if they are currently making profits? Is nwavguys chip less efficient per dollar? Or is there something else happening? I have no idea - and I do not wish to guess.
 But maybe I am being a little unfair, comparing only one multi-channel device.

 The Focusrite Saffire 6 is just shy of $200. It provides similar real world performance to the ODAC (OTTOMH). What differs is that it provides
  - Midi in
  - Midi out
  - 2 channels of inst, line and mic level input (including phantom power)
  - 2 +4dBU outputs
  - 4 -10dBV outputs 
  - And so on.

 My chief complaints about the above is that they do not also provide (to my knowledge) 16 bit performance on their site.


----------



## gnarlsagan

MrGreen your questions make it seem as though nwavguy is intentionally misleading or misinforming people which is why it comes off as character assassination. Your disagreements are understandable and you bring up good questions that I don't think would hurt to ask him. If you're content not to ask then it seems like the only logical conclusion one can make about your questions is they're aimed to produce doubt about nwavguy himself. 

Also, that is a good list of companies who provide measurements of their products. To be totally honest though it doesn't seem to me that they are quite as open, which is the point I was trying to make. Sorry if it wasn't clear. So extremely open vs. semi-open. Do they provide as detailed measurements? Or instrutructions on how to make their products? Maybe some do; I don't know. That seems to be somewhat of a large difference though. 

So I stand by the character assassination term (which was partly aimed at Anaxilus). I don't think it's necessary to get personal. It's more productive to lay out our disagreements rationally, which is something that nwavguy has going for him at least.


----------



## AKG240mkII

Mr.Green, why should nwavguy publish measurements for headphones ?
  1 : He does not make headphones .
  2 : He has never said they sound the same (or even that they should) .
  3 : He measures electricity, not vibrating air-molecules .
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> When will nwavguy fix his articles on tubes to reflect the existence of some tube amplifiers that perform as well as, or better than transistor amplifiers under REAL load


 
  Probably when such a thing becomes available, ie never .
   
  When will you_ acknowledge_ that neither amplifiers nor DAC's are supposed to even *have*  'a sound' ?
   
_And when will YOU publish measurements supporting your claims about valves ??_
   
   
  Quote: 





> I haven't asked him on his site, because that gives his site publicity, and I do not wish to support his cause, because of the manner in which he is doing it.


 
  Yeah right .. The whole internet will go there to read your opinions .
  I think you only post here at Head-Fi because you know he can't .


----------



## MrGreen

I was (and so were many others) posting the original question before nwavguy was a name people even knew. You are barking up the wrong tree (you also are too poorly researched).
  I don't need to, because STAX already did it for me. Feel free to google the reactive loads for the amplifier combos (with the shipped headphones) stax has already produced.
   
  Quote: 





akg240mkii said:


> When will you_ acknowledge_ that neither amplifiers nor DAC's are supposed to even *have*  'a sound' ?
> 
> _And when will YOU publish measurements supporting your claims about valves ??_


 

 Feel free to post my questions on his blog on my behalf.

 I really have no problems confronting him because the knowledge he posts is that which I, many MOTT and many DIYers have been posting for years.

 Feel free to PM me personally if you'd like to tell me his responses.
   
  Feel free to also research how search engines work.


----------



## MomijiTMO

The crawler has it already .


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> *OT:*  Okay, just wondering if Locking Down was subsequently released online as a legal (purchaseable) download somewhere.  Thanks!


 
*OT:* If you can't find it with Google I don't think it's out there. You can always ask this question at the http://forums.chicanemusic.com/ .


----------



## ChicaneBT

Why don't people perform some tests on their own if they want to prove ODAC's designer wrong. The critics are very passive all in all at least speaking in reproducible objective measurements. I think it's only good to raise questions about this product, some rightfully so other maybe just to muddle the discussion, but to prove your point you need those objective measurements. Without that it only proves what the designer of ODAC says is correct. Most audiophiles are too subjective.


----------



## MrGreen

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> Some audiophiles are too subjective.


 
   
  Sorry. Feel free to look at my older posts telling LCD-2 owners to shove it because their headphone has a measurablypoor response curve, as well as many other posts I have made in the sound science forum.
   
   
   
  Quote:


> Why don't people perform some tests on their own if they want to prove ODAC's designer wrong.


   
   By purchasing a piece of equipment I have no desire in owning because my dac is objectively better in every respect? You know, MEASURABLY better?
   
  Is it not nwavguys idea that the manufacturers should be performing detailed tests- to levels that are not available to ordinary consumers? Or they should, at least be accountable for their own products objective performance?

 So where are his measurements that I have mentioned, or the 16bit measurement he promised a long time ago now? Or the reactive load measurements he promised even further ago? Better yet, why not just some information on the types of loads he used for the measurement (loopback, resistive, whatever?)


 I don't wish to prove anyone wrong. I haven't said anything nwavguy has said is wrong. I have said he is selective about the truth, and also does not follow his own supposed ethics. I have also called into question his motives and character, particularly when he argues against people producing items. These are truths, by the way, which he says he expects from all manufacturers, but has not personally provided. Feel free to see my other post.
   
  My favourite part about this whole "objectivist" ordeal is that it aims to stamp out the placebo effect. Which by the way has been demosntrably shown to imrpove health, perceptions (including audio) in an almost innumerable number of studies. The power which - when you incorporate valves - which CAN be transparent - can be great. Consider, for example that two sugar pills are demonstrably a better a placebo than one, and a saline injection is even better than that.
   
  What he is doing is, in essence, pandering to the misinformed (That's you, by the way. No offense).


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





lcfiner said:


> I have a MS2 now and will be getting the ODAC next week. I look to compare them. but I honestly don't expect _major_ revelations and I doubt I will be writing a lot of flowery prose about the differences I may hear. But I will be coming back to this thread once I do have the two in house.


 
   
  Thank you.  I do not expect a drastic difference either, and by all means if you don't find much difference, then tell it like it is.  The last thing I-- or a lot of other honest head-fi'ers would want, would be exaggerated statements.


----------



## Girls Generation

Reading the many argumentative posts here, I'd like to just mention a couple things:
   
  1. If you haven't heard it (higher end stuff) don't think you can go claiming your gear is better, just on the basis of data measurements taken by someone you have never met or talked to.
      1b. If you HAVE heard it, SAY it, instead of whining that just because you haven't claimed to have heard higher end DACs doesn't mean you have not actually heard them. We're not oracles.
         1b2. Don't you think you can go defending other people that you don't know that just because they haven't claimed to have heard higher end DACs doesn't mean they haven't actually heard them. Again, we're not oracles.
   
  2. For you guys who are defending higher end DACs, sure you have good merit to be defending the higher end DACs' sound based off the fact that many of these guys are challenging claiming that the ODAC sounds better without either claiming to have heard said higher end DAC, or without hearing for themselves. However,
      2b. do realize that this DAC costs $150... There is really no need to be actually comparing $1000-$7000 DACs in such a serious manner, because the fact is that this is $150 and if it sounds even close to such high end DACs, EVEN if it still lacks "40%" of an difference that could not be represented by data (which actually matters here in the audiophile world, gentlemen) then, in my opinion, the argument has reached a total stalemate.
   
  If Brat has heard both, and says the ODAC is missing around 40% (though his DAC is $7000 by going on what someone else said, and assuming he has accurately dB matched, and eliminated any other source of bias), then that's probably what it is, because there are such things called "brief comparisons" and "impressions" that are essential to this hobby, and we all should be appreciating his honest opinion.
   
   
  tl;dr - You guys are arguing when there is no argument to be arguing about.


----------



## Girls Generation

Well, perfect neutral, flat response curve doesn't mean it's _*the *_best. If you like it, it's probably the best for you, but some of us like to _enjoy_ the music and get lost in it. What i'm interpreting from this post is, anything that doesn't have a perfectly neutral response curve is garbage. No offense, but this, your, opinion is, ironically, in my opinion, garbage. No hate intended; just blatantly stating my opinion of your opinion.
   
  Of course, I'm assuming your saying that a measurably poor response curve means not flat/neutral. (Correct use of "your")
  Quote: 





mrgreen said:


> Sorry. Feel free to look at my older posts telling LCD-2 owners to shove it because their headphone has a measurablypoor response curve, as well as many other posts I have made in the sound science forum.


----------



## MrGreen

Hello.
   
  I don't particularly wish to go into detail about the nature of neutral/flat for headphones in a thread about dacs. Suffice it to say, that although I _PREFER_ neutral/flat, there are so many variations for it that it begins to lose meaning. However, if people do prefer a particular sound, I think it should be added at the final end of the chain. This includes recording.
 Clean in -> However you want out.
 Clean dac -> Clean amp -> However you want for the speakers/headphones
   
  What I am trying to discuss here is that I have taken the measurement path for a long time, in a fairly agressive manner. This is something that those who praise nwavguy - who frankly has produced an ordinary dac which provides near meaningless benefits over other cheaper dacs, including pre-existing dacs, and refuses to publish useful information about the measurements he touts as all-important for amps and dacs (which I personally agree with), preach repeatedly. Something that many headfiers have done for a long time.
   
  The LCD-2 is not a bad headphone. It is not to my taste. (It is also not neutral)
   
  Thank you for your post 
   
  Quote:


girls generation said:


> Well, perfect neutral, flat response curve doesn't mean it's _*the *_best. If you like it, it's probably the best for you, but some of us like to _enjoy_ the music and get lost in it. What i'm interpreting from this post is, anything that doesn't have a perfectly neutral response curve is garbage. No offense, but this, your, opinion is, ironically, in my opinion, garbage. No hate intended; just blatantly stating my opinion of your opinion.
> 
> Of course, I'm assuming your saying that a measurably poor response curve means not flat/neutral. (Correct use of "your")


----------



## ChicaneBT

I don't know how to unquote it doesn't seem to work with BBcode.
   
  Quote: 





mrgreen said:


> Sorry. Feel free to look at my older posts telling LCD-2 owners to shove it because their headphone has a measurablypoor response curve, as well as many other posts I have made in the sound science forum.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


   
_*You don't have to get mad by shouting. It's a sign of weakness in the discussion. If the DAC you own is really better please put the results here so everyone can form their opinion. Maybe this DAC sounds very well to your ears *_






. 
   
  Is it not nwavguys idea that the manufacturers should be performing detailed tests- to levels that are not available to ordinary consumers? Or they should, at least be accountable for their own products objective performance? So where are his measurements that I have mentioned, or the 16bit measurement he promised a long time ago now? Or the reactive load measurements he promised even further ago? Better yet, why not just some information on the types of loads he used for the measurement (loopback, resistive, whatever?)
   
_*Why aren't you happy with the measurements he has done? Are they wrong? Prove it. Are they misleading? Prove it. Would your measurements prove weakness in the design? Perform your tests to prove there is indeed a weakness in the design. Please do tell me as I'm the misinformed. What can these 16bit measurements show, or better even all the measurements you miss?*_
   
  I don't wish to prove anyone wrong. I haven't said anything nwavguy has said is wrong. I have said he is selective about the truth, and also does not follow his own supposed ethics. I have also called into question his motives and character, particularly when he argues against people producing items. These are truths, by the way, which he says he expects from all manufacturers, but has not personally provided. Feel free to see my other post.
   
*I don't think it's prohibited to argue with others in the business or about their products especially when costumers are unhappy with that product. I see you call a lot of things in question which I actually think is a good thing in the discussion. But only calling things into question is not enough to take a stand towards a product which is maybe perfectly great, you do need some valid arguments to be able to draw a conclusion. *
   
   
  My favourite part about this whole "objectivist" ordeal is that it aims to stamp out the placebo effect. Which by the way has been demosntrably shown to imrpove health, perceptions (including audio) in an almost innumerable number of studies. The power which - when you incorporate valves - which CAN be transparent - can be great. Consider, for example that two sugar pills are demonstrably a better a placebo than one, and a saline injection is even better than that.
   
_*It would get to tiresome to get in all your objections about the designer (and his philosophy). Please do take it up with him.*_
   
  What he is doing is, in essence, pandering to the misinformed (That's you, by the way. No offense).
   
_*No offense taken.  But let's keep it civil. *_
 [/quote]


----------



## Girls Generation

Thank you for the response. I won't comment on nwavguy or anything measurement since I'm not really a measurements person and don't really care as long as it sounds good to me. Ironically, I haven't found the gear that really sounds perfect to my ears yet, meaning the ODAC/O2 doesn't deliver _enough. _
   
  However, your previous post said LCD-2 owners should "shove it" because of its measurably poor frequency response. Your second post contradicts this by saying any color should be added to the final end of the chain which, you even stated, could be headphones, in this case the LCD-2. I'm a bit confused, assuming your first post was not meant to be sarcastic.
  Quote: 





mrgreen said:


> ...I think it should be added at the final end of the chain. This includes recording.
> Clean in -> However you want out.
> Clean dac -> Clean amp -> However you want for the speakers/*headphones*


----------



## TMRaven

What happened to the O2 impressions?


----------



## Girls Generation

MrGreen has mentioned several times that Nwavguy's measurements are not wrong, but he's selective about what measurements to post, which, in a sense, is lying as well, since he's wanting it to be misleading.
   
  Just gargling up what MrGreen has said to clear up a point. I have no interest in this measurements argument; I like my ODAC... it saved me $$$.
  Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> _*Why aren't you happy with the measurements he has done? Are they wrong? Prove it. Are they misleading? Prove it. Would your measurements prove weakness in the design? Perform your tests to prove there is indeed a weakness in the design. Please do tell me as I'm the misinformed. What can these 16bit measurements show, or better even all the measurements you miss?*_


----------



## MrGreen

1. I've already posted RMAA and several other types of measurements for the DAC I use on head-fi. I will not post them here because I do not wish to clutter the thread. The measurements are higher across the board. Granted it is a $500 DAC, however it includes 12 balanced ins and 12 balanced outs.
  2. He has omitted basic, but essential/important detail. I have already described why in previous posts in this thread. For the sake of clarity, I will not repost them a third time.
  3. I do not have to prove anything for his measurements. I do not wish to say that they are wrong, nor have I ever implied that. Please use your head and understanding of language to understand the simple premise I have repeated consistently: nwavguy has not posted information that are essential to truly understanding the REAL WORLD performance of an amplifier. Some of which (eg. reactive load for all headphones) are unreasonable to expect. Others which are not (eg. 16 bit performance, example reactive load performance, what load type he was using).
  4. 16 bit performance will show how the dac performs taking 16 bit performance (without padding etc), outputting a 16 bit conversion. Which I presume (having not looked specifically at the devices architecture in detail), many are doing.
 5. I am not arguing against the product produced. I am arguing against the method in which it has been produced (potential plagiarism of the coffee, and so on).


----------



## MrGreen

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> MrGreen has mentioned several times that Nwavguy's measurements are not wrong, but he's selective about what measurements to post, which, in a sense, is lying as well, since he's wanting it to be misleading.
> 
> Just gargling up what MrGreen has said to clear up a point. I have no interest in this measurements argument; I like my ODAC... it saved me $$$.


 
   
  Excellent. The worth of a dac for playback of something as simple as CD playback is often hyper-inflated in places like this.

 Particularly when compared to the difference a headphone will make.

 It always gives me a headache when people consider an outboard dac and amp (even a soundcard) for headphones that are the problem. It's happening with the ODAC no doubt as well. I'm sure there are people out there rocking HD201s or HD558s, who can't wait to get their hands on the odac and o2.
   
   
  FWIW; the "LCD2 owners should shove it" replies I made years ago (approximately around launch) was actually due to LCD-2 owners calling it "the most neutral headphone", etc. Which is strictly not true.


----------



## Parall3l

Wow, just found this thread. Interesting topics being discussed here. So the ODAC is not exactly as legit as it seems? I heard similar things about the O2 as well.

 @MrGreen it's a shame I didn't meet you and the others at the Perth meet.


----------



## MrGreen

Quote:


parall3l said:


> Wow, just found this thread. Interesting topics being discussed here. So the ODAC is not exactly as legit as it seems? I heard similar things about the O2 as well.
> 
> @MrGreen it's a shame I didn't meet you and the others at the Perth meet.


 


 As per my post in the thread (I missed the event due to absence from head-fi), you can PM me if you're interested in hearing my setup.

 I'm sure the ODAC is exactly what it appears to be, and everyone should feel the same - presuming they trust the measurements posted. I personally have no reason to doubt the measurements. The problem is that nwavguy does not practice what he preaches to an adequate level (considering some of the things I ask require 0 work from nwavguy, or are easier to find than things he has already provided). I'm also sure it's a relatively cheap dac (though I am almost certain it could be cheaper), that handles CD audio pretty competently, whether 24bit with DSPs of some sort, or actual 16bit.
   
  In my eyes, not providing load information or reactive load measurements is almost as bad as that guy from SuperSize Me refusing to publish his food logs. Both suspicious (though I would consider the SuperSize Me guy a flatout liar, and I am sure NWAVGUY is just busy with whatever).


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





mrgreen said:


> 1. I've already posted RMAA and several other types of measurements for the DAC I use on head-fi. I will not post them here because I do not wish to clutter the thread. The measurements are higher across the board. Granted it is a $500 DAC, however it includes 12 balanced ins and 12 balanced outs.
> 2. He has omitted basic, but essential/important detail. I have already described why in previous posts in this thread. For the sake of clarity, I will not repost them a third time.
> 3. I do not have to prove anything for his measurements. I do not wish to say that they are wrong, nor have I ever implied that. Please use your head and understanding of language to understand the simple premise I have repeated consistently: nwavguy has not posted information that are essential to truly understanding the REAL WORLD performance of an amplifier. Some of which (eg. reactive load for all headphones) are unreasonable to expect. Others which are not (eg. 16 bit performance, example reactive load performance, what load type he was using).
> 4. 16 bit performance will show how the dac performs taking 16 bit performance (without padding etc), outputting a 16 bit conversion. Which I presume (having not looked specifically at the devices architecture in detail), many are doing.
> 5. I am not arguing against the product produced. I am arguing against the method in which it has been produced (potential plagiarism of the coffee, and so on).


 

 Where can I (and others) find your measurements of the Focusrite?
   
  Maybe someone will post some 16 bit performance measurements .


----------



## MrGreen

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> Where can I (and others) find your measurements of the Focusrite?
> 
> Maybe someone will post some 16 bit performance measurements .


 


 I use echo hardware.



 For the purpose of maintaining clutter, I'll only post RMAA as one picture and not other measurements (jitter etc, since my hardware supports things like external clocks). I've measured similar results -almost identical in fact- in the pass (with worse channel separation due to an error on my part).







 I hope someone decides to be a smart arse and tells me I am not posting enough information. It would make my day.

 PS an alternative source quotes "Rightmark's Audio Analyser roughly confirmed the manufacturer's specification, with a very good and almost identical measured 24-bit dynamic range of 110dBA at 44.1kHz, 96kHz and 192kHz sample rates, and a flat frequency response with -0.5dB points at 6Hz to 21.5kHz with a 44.1kHz sample rate, extending at the top end to 44kHz with a 96kHz sample rate, and staying about the same at 192kHz. Total harmonic distortion measured an extremely low 0.0004 percent, while stereo crosstalk was also excellent at -111dB"

 FWIW I wouldn't take my measurements as gospel on the hardware I use. It may be different in your setup. Some of it appears off to me; for example the DNR is lower than the SNR in the 24bit measurement. To my understanding that is a questionable reading; the SNR should be of a random or average signal value, and the dynamic range shoudl be the loudest possible signal.

 One thing I'd like someone to shed light on is the different things used by nwavguy here for the odac, fiio and dac1
  
  Noise A-Weighted dBu 24/44 --102.8 dBu A -98.3 dBu C -105.4 dBu
 Dynamic Range –60 dBFS A-Wtd --111.1 dBr A -97.6 dBr C -110.9 dBr

 Is he trying to tell me that he is using A weighting for his gear, C weighting for the fiio, and unweighted results for the DAC1? Am I reading it wrong? Or is it an error?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





gnarlsagan said:


> So I stand by the character assassination term (which was partly aimed at Anaxilus).


 
   
  If you think asking someone to adhere to the same standards they apply to others who are actually having their character assassinated is assassination then so be it.  I have no problem w/ you or anyone using the term incorrectly.  Maybe sacrilegious is the term you were looking for.  These questions have been asked multiple times for more than a year w/o response.  I'm sure he's worried about being held legally accountable for many of his claims and statements which is why he hides behind his 'incomplete profile'.


----------



## ChicaneBT

Quote: 





mrgreen said:


> I use echo hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The DAC1 Pre has no grade because it's considered as the benchmark for the ODAC or any DAC he has reviewed. The Fiio and ODAC have grades how they compare to the DAC1 Pre. Grade A being best, grade F being worst, that are the letters behind the measurements. He probably has written some stuff about why a result of a measurement is good and when it's not good enough for an A grade. 
   
  Too bad I can't view your picture.
   
  Edit:
  Noise A-Weighted dBu 24/44 _is the measurement _--102.8 dBu _is the result _A _is the grade_ -98.3 dBu _is the result_ C _is the grade_ -105.4 dBu _is the result and the benchmark _
   
  This is probably makes it clearer . The grade A or C has nothing to do with the A-Weighting which is a part of the measurement.


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





chicanebt said:


> The DAC1 Pre has no grade because it's considered as the benchmark for the ODAC or any DAC he has reviewed. The Fiio and ODAC have grades how they compare to the DAC1 Pre. Grade A being best, grade F being worst, that are the letters behind the measurements. He probably has written some stuff about why a result of a measurement is good and when it's not good enough for an A grade.
> 
> Too bad I can't view your picture.


 

 If I read that right

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting


----------



## ChicaneBT

Noise A-Weighted dBu 24/44 _is the measurement _--102.8 dBu _is the result _A _is the grade_ -98.3 dBu _is the result_ C _is the grade_ -105.4 dBu _is the result and the benchmark _
   
  This is probably makes it clearer .


----------



## MrGreen

Oh, okay. He threw me off for a second there.

 My picture was removed (possibly by mods?). You can probably find it on my profile.


----------



## mikeaj

some responses in bold
   
  Quote:


mrgreen said:


> 1. I've already posted RMAA and several other types of measurements for the DAC I use on head-fi. I will not post them here because I do not wish to clutter the thread. The measurements are higher across the board. Granted it is a $500 DAC, however it includes 12 balanced ins and 12 balanced outs.
> 
> *As you've mentioned earlier, a lot of RMAA figures don't seem to add up—SNR and dynamic range not making sense together; others have noticed seemingly impossible crosstalk readings, other issues.  Those who have done their own recording trying to match RMAA's setup, doing their own math, seem to have come up with a different figures than RMAA does.  And as we all know, there are instrumentation challenges, mostly dealing with grounding, not to mention having to deal with ADC quality.*
> 
> ...


----------



## rhythmdevils

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> If you think asking someone to adhere to the same standards they apply to others who are actually having their character assassinated is assassination then so be it.  I have no problem w/ you or anyone using the term incorrectly.  Maybe sacrilegious is the term you were looking for.  These questions have been asked multiple times for more than a year w/o response.  I'm sure he's worried about being held legally accountable for many of his claims and statements which is why he hides behind his 'incomplete profile'.


 
   
  Agreed, and well put.  If you think the points being made here amount to character assassination, I'd be horrified to know what the word is for the methods NwavGuy used to attack good, honest people like Schitt and AMB.  I have nothing against pointing out problems using measurements, I'm all for it.  But Nwavguy didn't just point out problems, his goal wasn't bettter products or more awareness, his goal was to shame them, embarrass them, humiliate them, and ruin their reputation.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





rhythmdevils said:


> Agreed, and well put.  If you think the points being made here amount to character assassination, I'd be horrified to know what the word is for the methods NwavGuy used to attack good, honest people like Schitt and AMB.  I have nothing against pointing out problems using measurements, I'm all for it.  But Nwavguy didn't just point out problems, his goal wasn't bettter products or more awareness, his goal was to shame them, embarrass them, humiliate them, and ruin their reputation.


 
   
  kinda OT so response in spoiler
   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



I'm sure different people have different impressions on methods used (certainly I wouldn't take the exact same approach), but aren't doing things like shaming / embarrassing / humiliating part of promoting better products, by bringing down worse products?  Again, you can disagree with how "worse" is defined, as usual.  Anyway, what's the use of mincing words:  protecting peoples' feelings?  Why should we care about the designers' intentions, if they mean well, or if we think they're good people?
   
   
  Also, I see a big difference between exposing objective issues that others can and have verified, and insinuation about ulterior motives that don't seem like they can be substantiated at all.  Wake me up when somebody's actually dug up some dirt.  I encourage some skepticism too, but again:  one thing is skepticism; on the other hand, we have true and verifiable issues.  That said, some from every side are guilty of some speculation, based on various degrees of evidence.
   
  The thing I wonder about insinuations of kickbacks involved, is about who would be sending the money:  John from JDSLabs, Oliver from Epiphany Acoustics?  Really?  Normally I'd just dismiss this as a strawman argument for the extreme, but it's been brought up more than once.
   
   
  If anybody can expose poor design, bad measurements, or anything, I don't much care how they say it.  Or who the target is.  Actually, if you could expose new issues with the O2 or ODAC, that would be perfect.


   
   
  So have people been having driver issues with the ODAC lately?  More USB cables making a difference?  Ferrite beads?  How, in which situation, and by how much?


----------



## MrGreen

Quote:


mikeaj said:


>


 

 Good post. Only one aspect I wish to respond to. "Regardless, is it really such plagiarism to use the same DAC and USB receiver chip as another device? "

 As some what of a free information activist, I would not consider this plagiarism. I would go further to say that the concept of plagiarism has become obtrusive. How is reading the work of another an invalid form of research? How is taking, and improving the work of another or changing it to your benefit, an invalid form of research? In essence, I would say that plagiarism has become a term that reinforces the plutocracy. It belittles those studying, researching, and modifying known technology for their own benefit. It stifles progress. We see it time and time again in the United States with patent laws. Classic examples would be Apple coming out with numerous lawsuits based on patents filed on unrealised, otherwise unpublished technology. I do not personally approve of the term, however I do not approve of stealing information at the DIRECT expense of another. For example, Steve Jobs stealing from Woz. The other side of the coin, is when your new product obsoletes the former product. I do agree with this form of "shifting power", because it encourages progress (in ways that capitalism now often fails to do).

 As per above, I have no doubt that many would consider it plagiarism - including the american judicial system.
   
  ((You'll have to excuse me, I've been watching many very convincing tin-foil hat tier documentaries))
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> *Responding to spoilers*


 

 Frankly I'm more concerned by how impressed/mesmerised people are over readily available, and very public information than I am about the feelings of people who create rival products. To me, it speaks volumes about the community - moreso than nwavguys own actions. Not that I specifically condone his actions.

 One thing I remember about schiit audio was the marketing spin they put on specifications (something I loathe totally). Something about the "amazing output levels" (needlessly high??) of the schiit asgard. In essence, nwavguys philosophy is the same as "all the fat cats in washington are liars", and then his measurements become another form of marketing. By adding marketing to the equation, I think the purpose of measurements are corrupted. We have seen it in the display industry (contrast ratio, dynamic contrast ratio, color spaces other than LAB and LUV), and even the pharmaceutical industry. (I'm a wide-read conspiracy nut). That is not to say that I don't approve of "marketing" a measurably superior product. But when the marketing becomes the focus - I think we're in for some trouble. Rediculous gains on nearly every headphone amp in existence comes to mind (remind me again why it's acceptable to only have to turn your volume knob 10% of the way?) EDIT:: Except for maybe I think AB design which means the less I push it, the better the THD? Maybe I am wrong.


 Perhaps I should take my ideas to arch forums, but I preferred the DIY community when it was about sharing designs and concepts, without the need of potentially profit-motivated agenda.

 Regardless, I'll be the first to point out that amps and dacs aren't really my element, as I prefer to stick with headphone measurements. I understand the measurements, but I couldn't sit there and tell you how to improve an amplifier. So anyone can correct me at any stage.


----------



## gnarlsagan

mikeaj said:


> kinda OT so response in spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




+1

It's one thing to call someone's reputation into question over evidence (destroyed headphones, unsubstantiated claims, lack of responsibility) and quite another to accuse someone based on no evidence at all. I'm not a business man, but I don't see an income stream here. If there is reason to think otherwise I would flip flop instantly, but I just don't see it. When certain companies release a lot more specific info about their products it will be easier to refrain from pointing out flaws in those products and those who market said products. And no one's saying anything about companies who are more transparent with their designs and results.

I'm not tied to one side here but this seems to be the most reasonable way to look at it. 

MrGreen I'd like to ask the questions you've proposed, since they have some obvious merit. Perhaps let's wait for the next article and see if they are addressed, and if not maybe we can get some answers. It'd be nice if anyone knew someone else who could run the measurements, because those answers would be more definitive to those who doubt nwavguy's motivations. I'm certaintly interested in more info about this and other amps as well. A scientific approach to all this seems to be rather new in the scope of things.


----------



## estreeter

I will only say this - in their headlong rush to find a cheaper alternative to the expensive kit offered by most vendors. many have embraced the whole 'V package' without questioning whether it was just another flavor of Kool-Aid. Surely there is room in the audio universe for more than one colossal ego, regardless of how well his designs measure ? Just sayin'.


----------



## Anaxilus

Well then, when one has nothing to hide they should probably answer the damned questions, offer evidence and stop hiding.  I'm amazed at the number of libelous claims made that his supporters overlook or are somehow blind too.  I don't know if it's selective reading, memory or both.
   
  If you don't see a potential revenue stream I'd recommend avoiding a job at the Dept of Treasury or FBI.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Well then, when one has nothing to hide they should probably answer the damned questions, offer evidence and stop hiding.  I'm amazed at the number of libelous claims made that his supporters overlook or are somehow blind too.  I don't know if it's selective reading, memory or both.
> 
> If you don't see a potential revenue stream I'd recommend avoiding a job at the Dept of Treasury or FBI.


 
   
  Uh, I really don't read that much into anything that's not the graphs, engineering analysis, or factual descriptions of what others have done, because much of it is frankly not that interesting and tends to be less accurate anyhow.  So I'm probably forgetting things.  I guess that counts as selective reading?  
   
  So which parties do you think were subjected to libelous claims?  C-Media, FiiO, Asus, Creative, Chinese audio companies as a whole, NuForce, AMB, Schiit, Head-Fi / Jude (and a couple others)?  I don't remember anything else off the top of my head.  I think in the majority of the above, criticisms are legitimate and well founded, based on actual products and tests.  For some cases, mostly involving interpreting others' motivations, there are probably some errors and definitely some conclusions I wouldn't be comfortable leaping to myself.
   
  All in all, I think you'll find plenty worse across the Internet, most just not as widely read or believed if we're just talking about audio.  On a side note, how would you rate this in relation to Arthur Salvatore on Stereophile?
   
   
  Also, there seems to be an inordinate amount of effort spent on shooting down the messenger rather than dealing with the messages, like proving them wrong.  Shouldn't that be the easiest way to stop the zombie invasion?  There are some open challenges that should be easy to win...?
   
   
  I have no interest in positions at the Department of the Treasury or the FBI, so would you mind suggesting some of the potential revenue streams?  (I mean to say:  I can think of plenty, but not many that are above the level of the average conspiracy theory.)


----------



## Anaxilus

Mike, I don't think there's too much we actually substantially disagree on.  There's really little point to expend the effort (original or repeated) to go line by line and continue further wrt someone who won't even take ownership of his words or actions by hiding behind a screen.  
   
  Are you bringing up the 'challenge' again or something else?  We've had this discussion before if you are.  Not only do you know the parameters of it are ludicrous but it is so much so 'V' hasn't even held himself to the same standard.  I don't care what people presume the outcome would be, which in fact should be the easiest of all the open challenges based on the expectation bias involved!  The fact is I see hypocrisy in once again asking others to abide by standards you yourself FAIL to maintain.  If standards of character and behavior mean nothing compared to the end results then those that believe that have a lot to thank Josef Mengele for.


----------



## frenchbat

Anax, you're assuming that Mengele had some results, while he actually didn't. Thought I'd put this here, next to the Godwin point you're getting close to. You can go back to the flaming now.
  Quote:  





> If standards of character and behavior mean nothing compared to the end results then those that believe that have a lot to thank Josef Mengele for.


----------



## doco

my odac is coming aug 9th. i'm so psyched to see what it hears like with the hd650 and asgard amp! i would have opted for the bifrost, but it was just way too expensive since i needed USB input the most. this DAC is as good as it gets for me.


----------



## WiR3D

I  Don't think Anax is flaming, just the inherit issue of conveying tone in text makes it seem so.
   
  By all means carry on with this discussion, I am intrigued, but guys we all know by now, be careful what you say, I did see mention of Jude as an example.... which IMO I would highly refrain from using....


----------



## frenchbat

The flaming part wasn't addressed to Anax in particular. Personally I don't care much for what's happening here, I have no dog in that fight and don't intend to engage one. Still it's always noteworthy when the Godwin point is getting close, and Anax got damn close here.
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I  Don't think Anax is flaming, just the inherit issue of conveying tone in text makes it seem so.
> 
> By all means carry on with this discussion, I am intrigued, but guys we all know by now, be careful what you say, I did see mention of Jude as an example.... which IMO I would highly refrain from using....


----------



## Currawong

Just FYI people, as this is a listening impressions thread, I'm moving it back into Dedicated Source Components. I think it'd be more sensible if someone wants to discuss the science of the design or blind tests of it that a separate thread is started in Sound Science.


----------



## Girls Generation

Word of law --hammer has been dropped, gentlemen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





currawong said:


> Just FYI people, as this is a listening impressions thread, I'm moving it back into Dedicated Source Components. I think it'd be more sensible if someone wants to discuss the science of the design or blind tests of it that a separate thread is started in Sound Science.


 
   
   
  Does anyone find their ODAC to have a bit less emphasis on the mids than others?


----------



## rhythmdevils

Look, my point isn't that it's bad to be new to a hobby/interest.  It's great, everyone was at one point.  My point is that a lot of the people with the most extreme, most closed minded opinions about this dac have the least real experience and understanding and knowledge.  If you're new to something, you ought to have a more open mind and be more humble.  This thread is full of people who read one extreme opinion from a guy with a blog, and have come here repeating it like it's the word of God.  It's just one opinion, and it's not even yours.  Stick around for a while, learn something, and form your own opinions.  Then come back here and have a more sensible discussion instead of just vomiting someone else's words to feel good about yourself.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Does anyone find their ODAC to have a bit less emphasis on the mids than others?


 
   
  Yes, when the power supply is having issues or something else is amiss.  I went through a whole roller coaster of interesting ODAC signatures.
  _______
   
  Godwin point does not equate to reductio ad Hitlerum.  The question was, do ends justify means?
   
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/282260.stm
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990218&slug=2944937
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100405152003AAqMvyP


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





rhythmdevils said:


> Look, my point isn't that it's bad to be new to a hobby/interest.  It's great, everyone was at one point.  My point is that a lot of the people with the most extreme, most closed minded opinions about this dac have the least real experience and understanding and knowledge.  If you're new to something, you ought to have a more open mind and be more humble.  This thread is full of people who read one extreme opinion from a guy with a blog, and have come here repeating it like it's the word of God.  It's just one opinion, and it's not even yours.  Stick around for a while, learn something, and form your own opinions.  Then come back here and have a more sensible discussion instead of just vomiting someone else's words to feel good about yourself.


 
   
  This right here...this is gold, bravo RhythmDevils.


----------



## Currawong

Formal warning to everyone: Anyone thread-crapping any further will find, without warning, they are unable to read or participate in that thread. Think carefully before you post.


----------



## Girls Generation

Told you guys he was watching.... Law is law.
  Quote: 





currawong said:


> Formal warning to everyone: Anyone thread-crapping any further will find, without warning, they are unable to read or participate in that thread. Think carefully before you post.


 
   
   
  Can you elaborate on "when something else [was] amiss?"
   
  Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Yes, when the power supply is having issues or something else is amiss.  I went through a whole roller coaster of interesting ODAC signatures.
> _______
> 
> Godwin point does not equate to reductio ad Hitlerum.  The question was, do ends justify means?
> ...


----------



## Rithrin

Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Told you guys he was watching.... Law is law.


 
   
  Indubitably.
   
  [That's the Danger of going to the cloud]. < Although this is up for debate.


----------



## Magick Man

loveknight said:


> Well, I think someone has gone too far. It is true that ODAC has its limit but it is an good DAC at a good price and if someone wants to compare ODACs to other more expensive DACs. They just go ahead and do that, those are their choices and their rights. I just want to mean that most of people here are contributors, or just customers look for the best things to hear at suitable prices. And if money is not important to someone than just buy anything that they think or truly is good. Everyone has their own measurements but I want to mention one thing. *ODACs are good products of course they are not the best out there but they cost only $150 for each one.*




This. Personally, I need more features and connectivity and I do have issues with the ODAC sonically. However, it's a good value for what it is and it fits the bill for its target audience.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> So which parties do you think were subjected to libelous claims?  C-Media, FiiO, Asus, Creative, Chinese audio companies as a whole, NuForce, AMB, Schiit, Head-Fi / Jude (and a couple others)?  I don't remember anything else off the top of my head.  I think in the majority of the above, criticisms are legitimate and well founded, based on actual products and tests.  For some cases, mostly involving interpreting others' motivations, there are probably some errors and definitely some conclusions I wouldn't be comfortable leaping to myself.


 
   
  Mike,
   
  You say 'Chinese audio companies as a whole', and you mention Fiio separately - that hasn't been my reading at all. Sure, V has criticised some of the measurements on various Fiio units that he has owned but if you go over the E9 measurements the amp had a surprisingly good report till he got to the output impedance issue. I didnt see a single post from a Head-Fier acknowledging that this amp may well be a good choice for certain fullsize cans - particularly given the price - they zeroed straight in on the black mark. 
   
  While I haven't seen anything on his blog blasting *all* Chinese audio, he does single Audio-gd out. If you go back through the threads on various Audio-gd products here on Head-Fi (surely the company's biggest source of free plugs), it doesn't take long to form a mental picture of poor quality control. Measurements aside, IMO that is unacceptable for products with sticker prices that are much closer to Woo Audio than anything from Fiio or iBasso. NuForce have also had issues in this area - again, well documented on Head-Fi. Fiio certainly aren't perfect either, but for a company which churns out so much product (at, presumably, razor-sharp margins), I think they are doing a respectable job of servicing the budget end of this hobby. 
   
  I'm not here to bash any of the above - or to make any particular claims on behalf of Fiio - but V's criticisms of the Chinese companies mentioned above didn't strike me as anything particularly new or novel - his were simply backed by measurements. I don't know if any Chinese company has approached him with a request to be one of the ODAC resellers, but its difficult to imagine how much more cheaply even Fiio could offer it over the JDS Labs price once shipping was factored in, but I'm confident that any decent Chinese manufacturer would build the ODAC to the specs they were given. 
   
  Personally, I'd like to see the ODAC up against another budget (now $199) DAC which has been lumbered with the 'giant-killer' tag, Emotiva's XDA-1. Made in China but shipped free in the CONUS - and it has a Darko Award !  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I know - reviewers, right ? - but 4.5 stars in this company from a $200 DAC - just sayin' .............
   
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/


----------



## doco

my odac came a day earlier than expected from USPS. i hooked it up immediately to my asgard and hd650 and set it to 24/96. i'm not one of those people who can describe in detail the highs, mids, and whatnot, but the sound is definitely better for me than using the cheap $60 DAC i got off amazon :0


----------



## mikeaj

Spoilering because not that relevant...
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  response:
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



Just so we're clear, the list was kind of facetiously made (don't take "Chinese audio" too seriously), and I also forgot to single out audio-gd, not to mention a couple of others.  I wasn't trying to single out FiiO in either a good or a bad way.  Like I said, I would consider a lot of the criticisms well founded, most probably true.  And it's not like there's no praise at all.  Then there are a few statements based on conjecture, mostly the ones not based on electrical measurement data, that could be more suspect.  In case you didn't pick it up, it was kind of going left to right, roughly in order of increasing likelihood that somebody was offended by something that might not be true.
   
  I'm not convinced that FiiO's margins are so low (at least compared to HT receivers at least at one point, not to mention non-audio equipment), but they have R&D / support / operating expenses costs, just like everybody else.
   
  Does V even manage ODAC resellers?  I would think that's more on Yoyodyne, since they're getting the boards made somewhere.  Also, production is about who has an SMT assembly line and can run a batch.  Companies like FiiO don't have one either.


   
   
   


doco said:


> my odac came a day earlier than expected from USPS. i hooked it up immediately to my asgard and hd650 and set it to 24/96. i'm not one of those people who can describe in detail the highs, mids, and whatnot, but the sound is definitely better for me than using the cheap $60 DAC i got off amazon :0


 
   
  Out of curiosity, which $60 DAC?  Just an informal A/B compare, or did you not bother listening to the old DAC again?  Either way is understandable.


----------



## doco

Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> Out of curiosity, which $60 DAC?  Just an informal A/B compare, or did you not bother listening to the old DAC again?  Either way is understandable.


 
   

 http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-28733-Digital-Converter/dp/B00007JO2V/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344476288&sr=8-1&keywords=cable+to+go+DAC
   
  it was something i used for a while for my ps3 before i got my asgard and hd650. with the ODAC, i noticed the instruments and mids have more presence.
   
  edit: tried out the a900 i had sitting around with the asgard + ODAC and WOW the guitar and violin strings makes me feel like im a few feet away from an actual person playing them!


----------



## MrGreen

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Yes, when the power supply is having issues or something else is amiss.  I went through a whole roller coaster of interesting ODAC signatures.
> _______
> 
> Godwin point does not equate to reductio ad Hitlerum.  The question was, do ends justify means?
> ...


 

 Still got it and don't want it?
 I'll take it off your hands for measurement purposes if you like


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mrgreen said:


> Still got it and don't want it?
> I'll take it off your hands for measurement purposes if you like


 
   
  Heh, still working on aftermarket solutions atm.  Too many projects.  We already have it measured.  You shoot me a PM if you like.


----------



## headphonatic

Left my dac destroyer in China, anyone know how they compare to the odac with my o2


----------



## HaVoC-28

ODAC at home , well i can say that i am satisfied soud as good as my gone NFB-17.2 that sounded as good as a pioneer DVD player (inside there was PCM1754+4580) or an HA Info 2U plus . Well My motheardboard or laptout line out don't sound very well in comparison .
   
  I came to conclusion that decend built DAC's sounded the same after carrefully level matched (used a decibelmeter etc) .
   
  Peraphs i am not enough sensitive to DAC's as i don't have problem to difference my head amps ... or should i try some more expensive unite , but so far i am happy with my ODAC , just let's enjoy music .
   
  Every one hear differently so no problem ^^


----------



## Oderi

Ordered my ODAC from Head'n'Hifi's Walter the day before yesterday and made the payment yesterday. Upgrading from a uDac2, curious about the magnitude of the difference it will make. Amping my Mad Dogs/D5000's with an M-Stage so the rest of the chain is fine for now.


----------



## Jimmy24

I'm having issues with my sound. I've had my ODAC for over a week now and it ran fine for the first few days. Just today, my sound stopped working altogether. I have to restart the computer to get the sound back. One thing that I did was go on HD tracks and listen to some samples. After I did that I tried to open a file with foobar and for some reason the sound stopped working. I went back to check if it still worked on HD tracks but the sound is completely gone. I went to my volume control settings and when I change the volume on it it I don't hear the pinging noise when I change it. Any people have any issues with this? Could this be a faulty DAC?


----------



## FlySweep

Instead of restarting your PC, try restarting just the "Audio Service" from your Services console (I'm assuming you're running Windows XP or 7).  It might help you isolate if the issue is with you audio driver or the ODAC itself.


----------



## Jimmy24

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> Instead of restarting your PC, try restarting just the "Audio Service" from your Services console (I'm assuming you're running Windows XP or 7).  It might help you isolate if the issue is with you audio driver or the ODAC itself.


 
   
  I'm not sure if I did exactly what you said. I went to audio devices and disabled my ODAC then reenabled it. It started working again. I'm still confused why it started doing this.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm not sure if this has been posted. I'm interested in pairing the odac with the fiio e09k. Anyone try this yet or have any opinions on the pairing?
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## moviedave

I can't say I have been that impressed with the ODAC.  I don't think it is bad, but it has that "digital" sheen to it.  Although my amp was a modest cMoy, and my phones the k550, I had trouble telling the difference between the ODAC and my old headstage usb cable dac.


----------



## purrin

Trying plugging into different USB ports. I've had extremely varying experiences with the ODAC depending upon what it is plugged into. If it's a laptop you are plugging into, see if the laptop has a specific USB port which can provide sufficient juice for charging up cell phones quickly.


----------



## BadFish81

So, I hate to come in and ask the newbie questions, but DAC's are one thing I don't understand so I've shied away from them so far.  Now that the 0DAC is available I'd like to take the plunge with plans to purchase an 02 amp later down the line.  Currently I have a portable Z02 that I use for my heaphones at work which will eventually be my just my portable option.
   
  My dilemma is that there seems to be a multitude of different companies/DIY'ers that off prebuilt 0DAC's, and I'm at a loss to discern the differences, or if they'd matter to me.
   
*   JDS Labs* - http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=46
     My gut reaction is to go with them as they presented as a more reputable and well known business that deals in these sorts of things.
     My hesitation is it seems pretty barebones, and earlier in this thread (I haven't read all 50 pages yet) people were complaining about size.
   
*   Audio Poutine* - http://www.facebook.com/AudioPoutine
     It's a little shady going through a facebook page, ordering on Google Docs and forwarding cash through PayPal, but he's obviously well known and respected, I don't really have a problem with it.
     The build looks a little less flashy though, it looks more like a DIY case.  I believe the advantage is the RCA in ports that the others don't offer? But I don't see a basic, line In.
  
*   EHP-02D* - http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/ehp-o2d-miniature-desktop-headphone-amplifier-with-usb-dac/
     Downside here is this company is in the UK and shipping charges are undoubtably going to be more as well as a longer wait.
     However this is the only 0DAC I've seen that has knobs for volume and gain. It also has a compact, nice black case.
   
  I'm hoping someone with more experience and understanding could give me a quick run down of pro's and con's for each of these.  I plan on primarily just running out from my PC at work, or from audio devices to my Z02 for now.  In the future I may pick up another for at home, either my speakers that are running direct from my TV, possibly my home computer also.
   
  Thanks in advance, really appreciated!


----------



## fuzzyash

Quote: 





badfish81 said:


> So, I hate to come in and ask the newbie questions, but DAC's are one thing I don't understand so I've shied away from them so far.  Now that the 0DAC is available I'd like to take the plunge with plans to purchase an 02 amp later down the line.  Currently I have a portable Z02 that I use for my heaphones at work which will eventually be my just my portable option.
> 
> My dilemma is that there seems to be a multitude of different companies/DIY'ers that off prebuilt 0DAC's, and I'm at a loss to discern the differences, or if they'd matter to me.
> 
> ...


 
  i believe jds labs is more for north america, while epiphany is more for UK
  and jds now makes a smaller sized odac (dac only)- check their facebook page for pictures


----------



## tzjin

ObjectiveDac = ODAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  All of the above are based on the ODAC board released by Voldemort, so they should all sound the same. The only difference is the different inputs and outputs that are possible.
   
  The option you listed from Epiphany is an ODAC + O2 combo; JDSLabs offers it as well.
   
  If you are based in North America, I personally would go with JDS Labs, since they have a nice new custom case, and more options for the output. They originally used the same case as their amplifier, which was too long for the ODAC, but they've started offering the new case now. You might need to request it though.


----------



## MattTCG

I've ordered an odac through audio poutine. It does not look "less flashy" in the least. In fact I prefer it to the jds labs version in terms of the case, build and aesthetics.  The shipping was quick and I was very happy with the overall transaction. 
   
  gL!!


----------



## LCfiner

I got my ODAC yesterday. I had previously mentioned that I would compare it to the HRT MS2 but I sold that one on Friday and could not do any A/B comparisons.
   
  Anyway, I'm using it now and I think it's quite good. I don't notice any digititus or harshness. My music just sounds clear and clean and instruments are well separated in space. None of my relatively complex tracks have tripped up the ODAC. I'm very happy with it. I'm using it with the Burson Soloist, LCD3 (for a short while longer), HD650, Magnums and Mad Dogs.
   
  Aural memory is pretty awful but I really can't say I notice any difference between the ODAC and my memory of the MS2. Songs that I know very well have all the same subtleties they had before.
   
  I also decided to give a higher end DAC _one more chance _and ordered a JKDAC32 last week. It should arrive in a week. Maybe now that I'm not comparing them with the highly colored GS1000, I might notice a more obvious difference between the ODAC (or a different, entry level priced DAC) and something that's a bit higher level. If not, the JKDAC32 goes back.


----------



## Girls Generation

Any will do. JDS for US, Audiopoutine for Canada, and Epiphany for UK is the trend here.
  Quote: 





badfish81 said:


>


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> ObjectiveDac = ODAC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  All Standalone ODACs are the shorter "49mm" size now. Only the RCA edition is longer. It's all stated on the item page. Guess more pictures wouldn't hurt


----------



## BadFish81

Quote: 





tzjin said:


> All of the above are based on the ODAC board released by Voldemort, so they should all sound the same. The only difference is the different inputs and outputs that are possible.
> 
> If you are based in North America, I personally would go with JDS Labs, since they have a nice new custom case, and more options for the output. They originally used the same case as their amplifier, which was too long for the ODAC, but they've started offering the new case now. You might need to request it though.


 
   
  Alright, thanks for all of the replies everyone! I know they were all based off the same board and specs, my concern was more with the different inputs/outputs/accessories/cases I was seeing.  I realize now that I was looking at Epiphanies amp combo and not the dedicated DAC.  I also see now that the RCA inputs are optional extras from both JDSlabs and Audio Poutine.  That's something I'll look into later for a possible future home setup.  Happy to hear that JDSLabs has a smaller case now (more pictures would certainly help), I think I'll go ahead and order from them for work, and maybe I'll go with Audio Poutine for my home build later.


----------



## Retarderad

Hi guys,
   
  I'm thinking about getting the ODAC. But the thing is that I have an Asus Xonar Essence ST soundcard that I bought quite recently and I know it measures quite well. The only real concern I have is that there seems to be something wrong with the drivers in W7 64 bit because sometimes I get no sound and have to restart the driver. But perhaps the unified drivers could fix this problem I don't know.
   
  I'm really debating if it's worth the money getting the ODAC instead, what do you guys think?


----------



## muad

I would focus on getting the st working properly... from what I've seen the ST measures very well, better than the ODAC. In theory they should be indistinguishable. Plus it doesn't cost you anything getting the drivers working properly!


----------



## Retarderad

Quote: 





muad said:


> I would focus on getting the st working properly... from what I've seen the ST measures very well, better than the ODAC. In theory they should be indistinguishable. Plus it doesn't cost you anything getting the drivers working properly!


 
   
   


 I think you are correct, I might even say objective 
   
  I will take your advice and try to work out the issues with the drivers. Thanks man!


----------



## fenderf4i

Quote: 





badfish81 said:


> Alright, thanks for all of the replies everyone! I know they were all based off the same board and specs, my concern was more with the different inputs/outputs/accessories/cases I was seeing.  I realize now that I was looking at Epiphanies amp combo and not the dedicated DAC.  I also see now that the RCA inputs are optional extras from both JDSlabs and Audio Poutine.  That's something I'll look into later for a possible future home setup.  Happy to hear that JDSLabs has a smaller case now (more pictures would certainly help), I think I'll go ahead and order from them for work, and maybe I'll go with Audio Poutine for my home build later.


 
   
   
  Audio Poutine also has a small ODAC case.


----------



## Rithrin

Quote: 





retarderad said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm thinking about getting the ODAC. But the thing is that I have an Asus Xonar Essence ST soundcard that I bought quite recently and I know it measures quite well. The only real concern I have is that there seems to be something wrong with the drivers in W7 64 bit because sometimes I get no sound and have to restart the driver. But perhaps the unified drivers could fix this problem I don't know.
> 
> I'm really debating if it's worth the money getting the ODAC instead, what do you guys think?


 
   
  I had the STX a while back.
   
  (short story)
   
  YES THE ODAC IS WORTH IT..
   
  Long story, STX to Nuforce HDP to Grace M901, M902, M903 to Benchmark Dac1 Pre To ODAC. (Plus heard half of what's under the sun - meets.)
   
  My headphone experience is much more lengthy / extensive, (as in everything up to and including Orpheus, on multiple occasions, and just about all Stax gear) but yes. It will be worth it for you to get to the ODAC. (It's a bit of a wonderful shortcut and saves you a lot of money though. ; ) I'm just warning you.
  Bet you 5 bucks.
   
  My concern with this is minimal, but I feel I should mention it. :
   
  (NOTE: there has been talk of variation depending on what board is feeding it power (the ODAC). If it's possible please run it out of a desktop, preferably one with terabytes of music. = /
   
  I know some people like lappy's, this is probably ok, but I bet a desktop will be feeding it ample and clean power - especially if your supply is clean. (Overall I wouldn't worry about it too much, but apparently there are some notables here who suggest running it out of a desktop. My opinion: I would imagine a more recent board may have the possibility of improving the power fed to the ODAC, but I don't know. 
   
   
  In my case, I don't worry about it too much. I run mine out of a Nehalem board and a Corsair TX950 power supply for stable power. If you're running it out of a reasonably recent powersupply / desktop, Dual core desktop or newer, I wouldn't worry about it though.
   
  If you're still on a single core Pentium or Athlon, I may be slightly concerned though. Just because there have been (so) many board changes since then. Anything Core-2duo or newer should probably be fine enough though, as in no sound degredation loss. I would worry about older boards than that though, just because they're so.., old.
   
  Desktop (there's a chance it may contribute, based on pure power [and Major board changes] and perhaps recent drivers) I think anything will be fine > ODAC > Anything. You're gold.


----------



## livewire

My USB powered DACs ( Audinst HUD-MX1 / HRT- MSII / HRT-MSII+ / ODAC)  function fine on my desktop. (Lenovo dual core Pentium w/USB2)
   
  My HP laptop is a different story. All experience drop-outs and static. Needs more juice!


----------



## Timmyw

> I know some people like lappy's, this is probably ok, but I bet a desktop will be feeding it ample and clean power - especially if your supply is clean. (Overall I wouldn't worry about it too much, but apparently there are some notables here who suggest running it out of a desktop. My opinion: I would imagine a more recent board may have the possibility of improving the power fed to the ODAC, but I don't know.


 
   
  I got mine just the other day. I used it pretty much exclusively on the desktop for a few hours, Loved it. I was very surprised. I still am. I would buy one with more functionality in a heart beat and be happy.
   
  I tried it out on my laptop, (Asus X21e) and the sound was identical. It sucked the juice out of it in quick time. If you're going to use it with a Laptop just be aware that it might reduce your battery life by a considerable amount.


----------



## Retarderad

Quote: 





rithrin said:


> I had the STX a while back.
> 
> (short story)
> 
> ...


 
   
  There's no doubt in my mind that the ODAC is really good. If I would buy it I would supply it with a Corsair AX650 (and a recent Z77 Gigabyte mobo) and I think that's a pretty good PSU.
   
  But when comparing the ODAC and the Asus card I'm mostly interested in the measurements and from what I've seen they are quite similar in that department and should both be transparent. My real question is, do you think you could tell them apart in a blind test?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





retarderad said:


> There's no doubt in my mind that the ODAC is really good. If I would buy it I would supply it with a Corsair AX650 (and a recent Z77 Gigabyte mobo) and I think that's a pretty good PSU.
> 
> But when comparing the ODAC and the Asus card I'm mostly interested in the measurements and from what I've seen they are quite similar in that department and should both be transparent. My real question is, do you think you could tell them apart in a blind test?


 
  Most probably, from my experience with the STX, it measures well, but its coloured, especially out of the headphone port, and IMHO the stock opamps are nasty, the JRC2114D just mess up things and the LM4562 (may have mixed up a digit there) is horrible, it has issues, but then again I'm very picky, and small issues annoy the crap out of me.


----------



## Retarderad

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Most probably, from my experience with the STX, it measures well, but its coloured, especially out of the headphone port, and IMHO the stock opamps are nasty, the JRC2114D just mess up things and the LM4562 (may have mixed up a digit there) is horrible, it has issues, but then again I'm very picky, and small issues annoy the crap out of me.


 
   
  Since the measurements cannot be absolutely perfect there will always be a slight coloration, right? But since both the ODAC and the STX produces measurements that are above the transparent line, I should not be able to tell the difference when listening through them, right?
   
  But as you said, small issues can be very annoying and I just ordered the LCD-2 and the O2 amp, so I don't want to worry about the Xonar card ruining the experience. I think I'm going to get the ODAC after all..
   
  Thank you for your input!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





retarderad said:


> Since the measurements cannot be absolutely perfect there will always be a slight coloration, right? But since both the ODAC and the STX produces measurements that are above the transparent line, I should not be able to tell the difference when listening through them, right?
> 
> But as you said, small issues can be very annoying and I just ordered the LCD-2 and the O2 amp, so I don't want to worry about the Xonar card ruining the experience. I think I'm going to get the ODAC after all..
> 
> Thank you for your input!


 
  Or just toss in some proper opamps... which could work out the same price lol. LME49990 (which I haven't tried) or THS4032 (which I have) and when you really feel adventurous, more power supply bypass caps.


----------



## Rithrin

I op-amp rolled with the stx. My first 'mods.' While it was worth it, there is no changing the STX 'wall of sound' and 'Stereo mush' when compared on (more technically revealing and faster transient) classier headphone systems. Do yourself a favor. The Odac is the most transparent thing in the market, or at least when noted to the Benchmark Dac 1 (which is also the most transparent - technically correct, _dac_ in the market.
   
  Please buy the odac, and, tell you what. You compare it to the Xonar STX and tell me what you think. ; ) If you don't find it satisfying, you're what, out 10$ after shipping?
   
  I just voiced my opinion. I'm leaving.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





retarderad said:


> Since the measurements cannot be absolutely perfect there will always be a slight coloration, right? But since both the ODAC and the STX produces measurements that are above the transparent line, I should not be able to tell the difference when listening through them, right?


 
   
  If anyone is interested, I can create a simple test that compares the following:
   
  A) a WAV file of your choice, converted to 96 kHz/24 bit with a high quality software sample rate converter (the filtering used - minimum vs. linear phase etc. - can be customized if requested)
  B) a loopback recording in the following setup: your WAV file -> Xonar STX (stock op amps) DAC -> attenuation -> differential amplifier (NE5532AP) -> Xonar D1 ADC -> recorded WAV file -> post-processing (level matching and synchronization with file A)
  C) another loopback recording: your WAV file -> Xonar D1 (NJM5532 op amps, not swappable) DAC -> differential amplifier -> Xonar STX ADC -> recorded WAV file -> post-processing
  
  I wonder if those who claim to hear "colored sound" would be able to hear it in the foobar2000 comparator. While the test would not represent real world usage perfectly, one would assume that passing the audio signal through all that nasty cheap gear makes an audible difference between at least one pair of files if there are real sound quality issues.


----------



## OPTiK

Has anyone had issues playing 24/96 tracks with the odac in winamp? It'll play it at first, but the kbps will jump around and winamp will give me the error:
   
  "Error while processing frame (FLAC__FILE_DECODER_SEEKABLE_STREAM_DECODER_ERROR). This error is caused by corrupt file or hardware malfunction".
   
  I've played these files many times before, including with an e17 so I know its not the file. Did I get a bad odac? 
   
  EDIT: Foobar plays it fine...


----------



## Xaborus

Has anyone figured out why some ODACs make a high-pitched squeal? Mine does it when I power on my pc. I've had 2 and they both did it so it has to be something other than the DAC...


----------



## franconero

Just got the Audio Poutine ODAC and am using it with Schiit Asgard and like what I'm hearing. I am having a sort of issue that I hope someone can help me out with - when I use BitPerfect with iTunes I'm getting a constant clipping sound that goes away the moment I turn BitPerfect off. Can (or should) BitPerfect be used w/ODAC? Is there some easy fix for the clipping sound?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





xaborus said:


> Has anyone figured out why some ODACs make a high-pitched squeal? Mine does it when I power on my pc. I've had 2 and they both did it so it has to be something other than the DAC...


 
  that's the sound of ferrites vibrating, totally normal.


----------



## jseaber

Delete...already posted...


----------



## oopeteroo

got the Odac/amp (built in o2) combo.
   
  how do i set it up ?
  do i need to config something ?
   
  and how do i do with the volume control?
   
  using it with my laptop + extern speaker.
   
  got the following volume controls:
   

 windows volume control
 foobar volume control
 speakers volume control
 Odacs volume control
   
  should i set all to max and just use odac do adjust the sound volume?
   
  and one thing do i press in the gain or do i not use it ? dont really know what it does


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> and one thing do i press in the gain or do i not use it ? dont really know what it does


 
   
  Use the low (2.5x) gain with the ODAC, high gain would result in clipping and distorted sound. The digital volume controls should be set to the maximum (or 1-2 dB less at the Windows volume control to avoid any potential clipping issues, but this might be unnecessary), and the volume controlled on the O2 for maximum dynamic range. Make sure that any digital volume control applied has 24 bit resolution, and that no unwanted sample rate conversion (e.g. from 44100 to 48000 Hz) is performed.
  However, the ODAC has sufficiently low noise floor that you can lose ~10 dB of dynamic range (maybe even more) with digital volume control without audibly degrading the sound quality; this can be useful for convenience, or to avoid channel balance problems that occur when the volume is set very low on the O2.


----------



## oopeteroo

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Use the low (2.5x) gain with the ODAC, high gain would result in clipping and distorted sound. The digital volume controls should be set to the maximum (or 1-2 dB less to avoid any potential clipping issues), and the volume controlled on the O2 for maximum dynamic range. Make sure that any digital volume control applied has 24 bit resolution, and that no unwanted sample rate conversion (e.g. from 44100 to 48000 Hz) is applied.
> However, the ODAC has sufficiently low noise floor that you can lose ~10 dB of dynamic range (maybe even more) with digital volume control without audibly degrading the sound quality; this can be useful for convenience or to avoid channel balance problems that occur when the volume is set very low on the O2.


 
   
   
  sorry iam really a noob  dont understand  can u explain it a simplier way ?
   
  so should i press in the gain button on the odac combo or keep it out ?


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> so should i press in the gain button on the odac combo or keep it out ?


 
   
  Use whichever setting that results in less loud sound.


----------



## oopeteroo

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Use whichever setting that results in less loud sound.


 
  oki if i press it it will be louder. so i didnt press it in.
   
  how about this ?
  '''''
  Use the low (2.5x) gain with the ODAC, high gain would result in clipping and distorted sound. The digital volume controls should be set to the maximum (or 1-2 dB less to avoid any potential clipping issues), and the volume controlled on the O2 for maximum dynamic range. Make sure that any digital volume control applied has 24 bit resolution, and that no unwanted sample rate conversion (e.g. from 44100 to 48000 Hz) is applied.
  However, the ODAC has sufficiently low noise floor that you can lose ~10 dB of dynamic range (maybe even more) with digital volume control without audibly degrading the sound quality; this can be useful for convenience or to avoid channel balance problems that occur when the volume is set very low on the O2.''''
   
  should i set foobar to max. Windows to max -2db
  how about the other volyme controller ?
   
  and how do i check this ''any digital volume control applied has 24 bit resolution, and that no unwanted sample rate conversion (e.g. from 44100 to 48000 Hz) is applied.''?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *oopeteroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> how about the other volyme controller ?


 
   
  You can generally set the software volume controls in foobar etc. to the maximum (unless you find it convenient to lower the volume there). You have some freedom regarding the volume controls, just avoid these problems:
  - clipping
  - large loss of dynamic range
  - quantization to 16 bits
  Setting everything to 100% on the PC is probably OK if you are not sure.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *oopeteroo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> and how do i check this ''any digital volume control applied has 24 bit resolution, and that no unwanted sample rate conversion (e.g. from 44100 to 48000 Hz) is applied.''?


 
   
  Check the Windows audio settings and the foobar configuration. The default settings may already be good.
  You can also use WASAPI output from foobar, this will bypass any Windows audio processing.


----------



## Jimmy24

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> You can generally set the software volume controls in foobar etc. to the maximum (unless you find it convenient to lower the volume there). You have some freedom regarding the volume controls, just avoid these problems:
> - clipping
> - large loss of dynamic range
> - quantization to 16 bits
> ...


 
   
  Okay so I just stumbled upon your post about changing the sample rate to 24 bit. I had mine on 16 bit (CD quality, picture below). It says when its running on "Shared Mode." Is this the setting that you're talking about?
   
   

   
  Could you explain why I need to change this? Will I hear a difference in my music. I'm also running foobar but I couldn't find the sample rate anywhere in the properties. 
   
  Please explain further with pictures if possible.
   
  EDIT:
   
  So I did found that Foobar was already running on 44100 and since I have exclusive mode on so I think that it bypasses the windows setting of 16 bit audio. I'm guessing I don't really need to change it?


----------



## sfoclt

Go to FILE --> PREFERENCES -> PLAYBACK -> OUTPUT -> DEVICE to select WASAPI output.


----------



## Jimmy24

Quote: 





sfoclt said:


> Go to FILE --> PREFERENCES -> PLAYBACK -> OUTPUT -> DEVICE to select WASAPI output.


 
   
  I couldn't find WASAPI. ODAC good?


----------



## FlySweep

You need this plugin to get WASAPI support in Foobar.


----------



## Jimmy24

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> You need this plugin to get WASAPI support in Foobar.


 
  Thanks. Just downloaded it, in what folder do I put the file?
   
  EDIT: N/m found the thread. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Oderi

Received my ODAC today. Install was plug'n'play, real breeze. Running through WASAPI on Foobar -> M-Stage -> Mad Dog. Compared to my previous dac, uDac2, I have noticed greater instrument separation and detail (the illusion of greater instrument separation probably has to do with the better detail and whatnot). At first I thought it was more "silent" than uDac2, as in uDac2 having hiss or something like that, but then I realized that impression is also given by the better detail retrieval.
   
  Got mine from Stefan at Head'n'Hifi, no problems at any point of ordering/transaction/shipping process.
  Very happy.


----------



## tdockweiler

I just got the ODAC in and for the last half hour it's had piercing treble. Very, very bad and actually gave me a headache. I just figured it was garbage recordings.
  I used it straight to my desktop, which is fairly new and decent enough. Motherboard USB ports and not the ones in the front of the case.
   
  I saw a post that mentioned try to plug it into another port. I did this crazy thing and connected it to a powered USB hub (nothing else attached) and it seems to have improved. Fingers crossed.
   
  Maybe it's even MORE picky about USB ports as my HRT MSII. That thing doesn't even work from my 2009 laptop. It has similar symptoms if I use my laptop.
   
  BTW this thing is about 5x smaller than I expected. I wonder how many are thinking "No way such a small thing could ever sound that good". I don't even know how big the O2 is.
   
  I won't post any more impressions until I've listened to it for a few days.
   
  UPDATE: I've been listening to the ODAC to my amp using my favorite headphone and it looks like the problem is definitely fixed. I switched back to plugging it into my computer and got the treble issue.
  I guess I could install a USB card to see if it powers it better, but that's a waste of money. It's baffling why this happens.
   
  So far, no complaints at all. I'll give some more impressions some other time. It'd take me forever. I'm coming from using the HRT MSII, X-Fi Go Pro DAC (a steal for $35 and very neutral!) and testing the E10. I'm glad to report that all my headphones i've tested so far sound exactly as they should, but with a ton of improvements in most areas.


----------



## TMRaven

Makes me hope my 09 iMac can power it properly.


----------



## MattTCG

I previously owned the odac. Sold and now bought it again. I can not read this entire thread. Do I need a ferrot chocked usb cable. I bought mine from Audio Purrin. 
   
  thanks...Matt


----------



## purrin

I haven't paid any attention to USB cables. I did find SQ differences with dedicated higher power USB ports which offered more current (the ones which charge my iPhone quickly) vs. the wimpy USB ports (the ones were I occasionally get a message saying there isn't enough current to charge the phone).


----------



## MattTCG

So how do you know which ones are high power?


----------



## FlySweep

I've got pics of the new ODAC case (with my UHA-6S MKII) over on the Leckerton thread, for anyone who interested in taking a peek.  JDS turned out a beautiful case.. it's smaller in every dimension than the c421 case the ODAC used to come in.. I'm amazed at how sleek it looks.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I've got pics of the new ODAC case (with my UHA-6S MKII) over on the Leckerton thread, for anyone who interested in taking a peek.


 
   
  That's what I was hoping to run as well as my setup.  Need some time to play around w/ external power options.


----------



## LCfiner

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Makes me hope my 09 iMac can power it properly.


 
   
  I'm running mine on the 2009 iMac and it's running OK. no issues plugged into one of the rear ports. Definitely no piercing treble issues.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I'm really interested in getting one of these suckers.
   
  I am curious however: Does it downsample 88.2, 176, and 192khz files to the supported sample rates? Or will you get that god awful hiss?


----------



## FlySweep

anaxilus said:


> That's what I was hoping to run as well as my setup.  Need some time to play around w/ external power options.


 
  So far, it's an impressive combo.  I've got a pretty nice (business class) HP laptop that's decked out (thanks to my employer) & haven't run into any USB power-related issues with the ODAC.  A powered USB hub is always a nice safeguard, though.. especially if you've got an outlet always nearby.
   
  I haven't done any A/Bing between the UHA's DAC & the ODAC.. but my initial impressions are that the UHA's DAC is quite good.. very resolving and clean.. much like the ODAC, really.
   
  I really love the UHA amp's performance when driving IEMs (which is what I primarily got it for).  The background is so damn quiet.. dynamics are impressively controlled.


----------



## gnarlsagan

I want the new case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The old case is too long to set on top of the O2. The new one would stack perfectly...


----------



## chrislangley4253

any recommended hubs? I might get one for the sake of reassurance.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> any recommended hubs? I might get one for the sake of reassurance.


 
   
  The one i'm using is the Belkin 7 port powered hub. Just had it around anyway. It's found here:
  http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-USB-2-0-7-PORT-HUB/dp/B000TTTJ36/ref=pd_cp_e_1/187-5656949-3157751
   
  It seems that powered USB hubs aren't as easily found for cheap as you'd imagine. Even on Monoprice. The normal price even online is around $20 for a high quality one.
  There's some on Amazon with like 20 ports or something for only a few dollars, but they have terrible reviews. Like 1/5 average based on 500 reviews.


----------



## tdockweiler

[EDIT - I've found that due to a equipment issue, some bad stuff was sounding slightly worse than it should be]
   
So far I've been listening to this thing almost all day. I need to give my ears a break.
I miss my HRT MSII already somehow. ODAC sounds good, but my impression varies a lot between songs. It's just that revealing of the crap I have in my collection. About 25% of it sounds worse than it ever did previously.
   
Something still just seems weird about the treble. I can't really describe it, but I guess it seems to make the treble a little more edgy on all my headphones.
Nothing too badly. I won't say it's making them sound dramatically different, but I never heard any of them sound like this on dozen or so sources/amps.
Probably the music's fault, but hard to say. Don't ask me why, but this reminds me of the E7 when it comes to the mids and treble. I hate the mids of the E7.
I hope to wake up and find that my ears were just tired or something.
   
Pretty interesting how the sound can vary so much between songs on this thing. The songs can go from sounding warm with full mids to having recessed (sounding) vocals and thin mids. All due to the recording (not the headphone). There's so many of my WAV files that sound more like 128kbps files. At least now it's not that fatiguing anymore, but still a little. I would say I get a little annoyed more than fatigued.
   
I definitely wouldn't call it very musical, which some people prefer. Whatever the heck that means. Definitely not even remotely "warm". I imagine I'd love this thing with the HD-650. I am using it with the Q701 and I'm actually surprised it's not even MORE fatiguing.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> So far I've been listening to this thing almost all day. I need to give my ears a break.
> I miss my HRT MSII already somehow. ODAC sounds good, but my impression varies a lot between songs. It's just that revealing of the crap I have in my collection. About 25% of it sounds worse than it ever did previously.
> 
> Something still just seems weird about the treble. I can't really describe it, but I guess it seems to make the treble a little more edgy on all my headphones.
> ...


 
   
  With the HD650, its pretty nice. Removes the 'edginess' as you say. With 'bright' headphones, its not really that good a match. More like it presents the headphone's true character to you.
  However, it's also very neutral, and poor recordings *will* sound poor.
  As you say, some songs sound much better, others less so.


----------



## Hedonism

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> So far I've been listening to this thing almost all day. I need to give my ears a break.
> I miss my HRT MSII already somehow. ODAC sounds good, but my impression varies a lot between songs. It's just that revealing of the crap I have in my collection. About 25% of it sounds worse than it ever did previously.
> 
> Something still just seems weird about the treble. I can't really describe it, but I guess it seems to make the treble a little more edgy on all my headphones.
> ...


 
   
  So, what I gathered from this is that the ODAC is more definitely more revealing and less rolled off than the HRT MSII. However, due to the quality of your recordings and the already (artificially) analytical/revealing nature of your AKGs, you could not really enjoy the ODAC on many of your tracks. You'd rather the HRT MSIIs warmer and more forgiving nature (in comparison to the ODAC), because it synergizes with the Q701 better. Did I get that right?
   
  Anyway, thanks for the impressions! I'm thinking of getting rid of the HRT MSII in favour of the ODAC. I look forward to more of what you have to say about the ODAC.


----------



## TMRaven

ODAC definitely sounds more and more promising to synergize well with the HE-400, and possibly down the line an Audez'e.


----------



## Hedonism

Haha, those were my thoughts too. I feel that perhaps the warm/forgiving nature of the HRT MSII might not pair well with the relaxed upper mids of the HE400, which gives it a darker sound sig. However, I might just be talking out of my butt. I will get an ODAC soon enough, and I'll report back here to see if this musing was indeed true.


----------



## tdockweiler

.


----------



## tdockweiler

*[UPDATE - I've discovered an issue with my setup. The bad/garbage tracks are now not as bad as described below. Something was causing the mids to be very slightly thinner than they should be. Even the treble sounded a bit off. Bad tracks sounded more fatiguing than they should be. I will make an ODAC review in about a week. I tate back my comments on the ODAC being TOO revealing or completely un-musical. It still does need high quality recordings. The changes though overall are not huge.]*
   
  I just ran my DAC all night (for my own amusement) while asleep. Today I had to work all day so I gave my ears some rest.
   
  Been listening for the last hour with the Q701. Felt like I had my fingers crossed that the treble wouldn't be such an issue. So far it's OK and no ear fatigue or nasty treble.
   
  What's really amazing now is how the quality of songs vary so much with the ODAC in comparison to the HRT MSII. It does feel like my music is really put under a microscope. Maybe too much.
   
  The Q701 doesn't ALWAYS sound thin, too analytical or completely lifeless with the ODAC. Now it depends more on the actual recording. A bit annoying, but that's OK. Maybe for some a DAC that's more forgiving is better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This tiny thing even makes me appreciate my amp a bit more. The amp doesn't seem to be adding any coloration such as forward mids, extra treble or bass etc.
   
  I've noticed recently that on my other amp (E9) it's much harder to hear what's connected to it. Not sure exactly why.
   
  I'm only tried this with a few headphones, so now i'll test it with the HD-598, K601, HD-580 and KRKs. Listening to the KRKs with this will be interesting.
   
Possibly the most un-musical DAC/source i've heard, but that's OK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The mids seems a bit thinner on most headphones than they should be (on many sources)..probably impossible right? 
   
  BTW Eddie Vedder's "Hard Sun" from the Into the Wild Soundtrack is kind of ear piercing on the K601. First song/headphone that did that for me tonight. Probably just the recording.
   
  also..just listened to it with the HD-580, seems like a perfect match for it. Maybe the HD-598 too. I guess I could always use the Q701 with a 2nd DAC if needed if I end of disliking that combination. Nothing wrong with liking a slightly colored DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Primus with the HD-580 + ODAC to Micro Amp is pretty entertaining/amusing to listen to. Even the soundstage is impressive..yeah from the HD-580!
   
  EDIT: I just hooked up the E10 again for use with the Q701. I prefer the E10 as a DAC to the Q701 I think (over the ODAC). It seems to have fuller mids and it's probably a little warmer. Too bad that's the only headphone I like it with. I hated it with my HD-598 and DJ100. Too bad the mids are so forward (to my ears) on the E10. Maybe the E17 is similar to the E10, but sounds much more neutral. Crappy cantopop annoys me on the E10 due to it's mids..on the ODAC..not at all.
   
  Maybe I'll go get a soundcard and be done with this external DAC nonsense


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> With the HD650, its pretty nice. Removes the 'edginess' as you say. With 'bright' headphones, its not really that good a match. More like it presents the headphone's true character to you.
> However, it's also very neutral, and poor recordings *will* sound poor.
> As you say, some songs sound much better, others less so.


 
  Well, I have some T1s, running out of an SPL Phonitor being fed by the ODAC. I love the sound coming out of this combo. Everything is very clear and balanced and neutral. I can hear everything. The DACMagic is certainly warmer than this. But it doesn't bother me one bit, I don't like things too warm. I am going to take a trip soon to Melbourne and listen to some other offerings and do some comparing then. A note on this, I was a bit worried about listener fatigue but seem to be experiencing none.
   
  When I say I can hear everything, sometimes this isn't so great. It picks up whatever mistakes in a given recording were made. Any distortion will be heard, if a recording has any sibilant vocals they will show up quite clearly so if this kind of thing bothers you beware! With my other DAC I can usually ignore this stuff, but with this it shows them up in all their horrible glory. I guess that shows the quality of some of the music I have in my collection .
   
  My classical stuff though, and everything else that was well recorded this is a real treat to listen to and I am very happy and feel very fortunate to own this gear.
   
  A note on the treble, to my ears it sounds excellent. I love the ODAC. There we go, decision made for me. I wish it had some more connectivity, perhaps a larger desktop version will make itself known in the future. 
   
  I think if you are considering this, it might be prudent to find someone who owns one and see if you can get a listen first just like everything else I guess. I took the plunge and ordered because it was so cheap and do not regret it one bit.


----------



## muad

tdrockweiler... I gotta say, I just love your honesty. Something about the way you write really displays your open mindedness. There seems to be a lot of preconceived ideas surrounding the ODAC coming from both the subjectivists and the objectivists which are really leaving a negative air surrounding V's designs. This forum is a bit worse of than others. It's quite refreshing to read that you hear differences, yet openly admit that they may be placebo... or not. I believe it is a fallacy to ignore that we may be the weakpoint in the chain. The scary thing is when I read about people complaining about the treble... while using bright headphones, but not acknowledging the headphones may be the problem. What I've gathered is that most sources seem to be slightly warm? Which explains why some people don't like the benchmark dac1 either.
   
  I have to admit I am completely confused about what to believe anymore. I started this hobby as a subjectivist but am an objectivist by nature. It never occurred to me to apply objectivity to audio until the whole voldemort fiasco happened. I was always under the assumption that cost had a direct relationship with transparency. But there are so many differing opinion on the subject that I do not know what to believe. If the ODAC is transparent then why do so many people with more expensive dacs claim the ODAC is *good for the money*? Quite a few have stated that it is close but not as good as their TOTL dac. Some have stated it is good but is completely destroyed by their $3000+ dac. Shouldn't they sound identical? Is the more expensive amp colored? Is the ODAC not transparent? The objectivists are not much better... there have been quite a few post from newer members and a few others making claims about how great the ODAC is, but not in a useful kind of way. Sometimes they come across as zealot like... kinda scary. So who do I believe? The subjectivist who doesn't question his perception or the people who have bought into the O2/ODAC without question? Anyways, that's why your posts are refreshing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I personally believe that V is a good guy with good motives. Either way I ordered an ODAC and will compare it with the audio-gd fun. The Fun measures terribly (relative to other cheap amps/dacs) but many have commented on how nice it sounds. It does sound nice and musical and smooth but what was the trade off? The ODAC should contrast the Fun nicely.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> So far it definitely seems more revealing. There's a few things that pop up in some songs I never heard before.


 
   
  I seem to recollect a conversation we had about the perceived reality of such an event.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Does the ODAC downsample 88.2, 176.4, and 192 sample rates?? Or do you get that buzzy B.S. like you put the settings too high in windows?


----------



## stv014

The ODAC itself will not downsample anything, but Windows could, depending on what API you use for audio output. Since the ODAC only supports 44.1, 48, and 96 kHz, you do need software conversion somewhere to hear sound at the correct speed and pitch.


----------



## tdockweiler

.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Been comparing and listening to the E10 vs the ODAC for the last few hours. Makes it so easy when you have two inputs on your amp.
> I've been taking notes for myself since i'm such a nerd. Turns out it's kind of pointless.
> 
> Here's what i'm hearing so far (with Q701):
> ...


 
   
  Just a little question , level matching done ?


----------



## MattTCG

Oh, just got an odac today. Swapping back and forth between the odac and docked e17 (to e09k). The odac is head and shoulders better than the docked e17. Really really nice!!
   
There is a dock and aux in switch with the new e09k, so it makes it very simple to A/B between e17 dac and odac. The odac is in a different class and wonderful to listen to. Bass is tighter with more impact. No looseness at all and hit a couple notches harder. Mids and female vocals are perfect. 
   
Gonna listen to this for a few hours and then the fun begins. 





 pc>odac>nfb6 (balanced). Haven't even powered on the nfb6 yet...just got it and had no dedicated dac until this afternoon.


----------



## Kurios (Feb 6, 2022)

.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Oh, just got an odac today. Swapping back and forth between the odac and docked e17 (to e09k). The odac is head and shoulders better than the docked e17. Really really nice!!
> 
> There is a dock and aux in switch with the new e09k, so it makes it very simple to A/B between e17 dac and odac. The odac is in a different class and wonderful to listen to. Bass is tighter with more impact. No looseness at all and hit a couple notches harder. Mids and female vocals are perfect.
> 
> ...


 
  Sounds like play time to me.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





matttcg said:


>


 
  Where in the hell did you get that beautiful version


----------



## chrislangley4253

First off, I'm totally enjoying your posts tdockweiler. Reminds me of myself, or any honest person trying to compare gear.
   
  You need to understand how important the recording process and the mastering process are to the end product. If the recording OR the mastering is bad and you have a revealing dac and a revealing headphone, well, it's not gonna sound great.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Where in the hell did you get that beautiful version


 
   
  That would be Audio Poutine. You can reach him via FB. I really like his build over the jds labs build. Just nice and clean. Lovin' it!!


----------



## muad

Question for you guys... are you guys using the odac with foobar w/ wasapi? I remember reading that some people are having popping issues with this setup. I'm just curious it is universal or is just happening randomly?


----------



## MattTCG

Zero popping, clicking or treble issues here. I use foobar with waspi. Now with the Music streamer ii I had tons of issues when using foobar with waspi.


----------



## mmayer167

I am using the newest version of foobar with the wasapi component. No popping from my setup. 
   
  fyi, I recently got a CTH and must say the ODAC is much more pleasant of a sound through the CTH than the O2. I think the tube buffer helps 
   
  -M


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





muad said:


> Question for you guys... are you guys using the odac with foobar w/ wasapi? I remember reading that some people are having popping issues with this setup. I'm just curious it is universal or is just happening randomly?


 
  i have tried it, works fine.. But, why wasapi?


----------



## muad

to avoid up or down sampling by the windows mixer, plus to avoid windows audio tampering... I highly doubt that the difference is audible but it is peace of mind and doesn't cost me anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Do you use something else?


----------



## gnarlsagan

muad said:


> to avoid up or down sampling by the windows mixer, plus to avoid windows audio tampering... I highly doubt that the difference is audible but it is peace of mind and doesn't cost me anything
> 
> Do you use something else?




I'm pretty sure that windows 7 outputs bit perfect audio when the volume is at 100%. Could be wrong but I don't think so.


----------



## muad

Really? I was under the impression that without wasapi it would be resampled to the quality set in the windows mixer panel. Someone care to enlighten me?


----------



## MattTCG

I have to say after about a three hour listening session that I am completely impressed with the odac. I owned it for about a month right after it came out and I think that I didn't give it a fair shake. At the time I was comparing it against the Bifrost, which really isn't a fair comparison. The BF is better but it's more than 2x the cost. 
   
  Now what I hear is a wonderfully resolving dac. It performs impressively with complex live jazz recordings. All the minute details are suddenly present now. It's like a expertly prepared dish made up of many complex and delicious ingredients. I know that many here have made comments about this dac being "strident and harsh" in the treble region. I don't find this to be the case at all and I'm very sensitive to bright sounds. I'm finding the material I listen to be presented in a very natural and refined way. 
   
  And maybe the biggest surprise for me is the bass. Possibly it's because of better texture but it's even better with the odac. It's a tangible bass that isn't shy at all. 
   
  So, IMO great dac and great price!! Highly recommended...


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I have to say after about a three hour listening session that I am completely impressed with the odac. I owned it for about a month right after it came out and I think that I didn't give it a fair shake. At the time I was comparing it against the Bifrost, which really isn't a fair comparison. The BF is better but it's more than 2x the cost.
> 
> Now what I hear is a wonderfully resolving dac. It performs impressively with complex live jazz recordings. All the minute details are suddenly present now. It's like a expertly prepared dish made up of many complex and delicious ingredients. I know that many here have made comments about this dac being "strident and harsh" in the treble region. I don't find this to be the case at all and I'm very sensitive to bright sounds. I'm finding the material I listen to be presented in a very natural and refined way.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm impressed too and I've only used it with the Q701 mostly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Maybe 25% of the time with my DJ100. I've never heard the bass of my DJ100 as good as it is using the ODAC. That's one thing that I noticed immediately too. 
  I would say my DJ100's signature sounds the same mostly, same with my KRKs. The Q701 is the only one that sounds slightly different. Only because I think my HRT MSII must have been darker than I thought. I would say it's signature is now closer to how it sounds when I connect a good cd player up to my amp. 
   
  Pretty surprised too how much larger the soundstage of my HD-580 got. I thought that was impossible. The DJ100's is about the same it seems, but that's closed.
   
  BTW does your E17 have fuller sounding mids than the ODAC? I need to find out if the E17 has more extended treble than the E10. Probably. The E10 sounds a bit dark at times with my DJ100 and 598. Sounds fine with the Q701. As a DAC for ONLY the Q701, I don't know if the ODAC would be my first choice. Something slightly warmer sounding is OK with me. Maybe the E17 is a nice match for the Q701. E10 isn't too bad, but not good for some headphones.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





muad said:


> to avoid up or down sampling by the windows mixer, plus to avoid windows audio tampering... I highly doubt that the difference is audible but it is peace of mind and doesn't cost me anything
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I use nothing. Having to stop my music in foobar to listen to anything else got bothersome.
   
  Quote: 





muad said:


> Really? I was under the impression that without wasapi it would be resampled to the quality set in the windows mixer panel. Someone care to enlighten me?


 
  annnnd.. .why wouldn't you want to stream your 16 bit or 24 bit stuff at 24 bits? It actually has the benefit of making volume controls less degrading.. Outputting 16 bit at 24 bit just adds some zeros that act as a filler. No harm done, I swear. Windows 7 has bit perfect playback at max volume.


----------



## muad

i was referring to up/downsampling to 44khz or whatever you set in the windows mixer. I was not referring to the bitrate...


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





muad said:


> i was referring to up/downsampling to 44khz or whatever you set in the windows mixer. I was not referring to the bitrate...


 
  hmmm. IDFK


----------



## tdockweiler

Does anyone have this experiences with the ODAC....
   
  Listen to first track. Sounds like I have the HD-650 on my head, but it's only the Q701. Song is "Parting Ways" from Pearl Jam.
   
  Try another random 3 songs and they sound like i'm hearing them from an AD700 or RE0.
   
  Maybe the next one will sound like how it does on an HD-800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think my recordings are not good enough for an HD-800 to begin with. Or even the Q701 and ODAC (seriously).
   
  Today I spent 2 hours organizing my collection and re-ripping some stuff to FLAC.
   
  Have to wonder how many people describe a specific headphone (with a very revealing setup) as thin or bass light, when it's possibly due to how the recording is.
   
  Love analyzing all my music! It's so much fun! Who needs to actually listen to it. What fun is that...


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Does anyone have this experiences with the ODAC....
> 
> Listen to first track. Sounds like I have the HD-650 on my head, but it's only the Q701. Song is "Parting Ways" from Pearl Jam.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's all in your head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , listening the same track one hour later on the same setup some times => hey it's not the same ?
   
  huh ? well mood  , concentration , tiredness etc etc , so many factor that can influence how we perceive music . ODAC is not responsible about how you feel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Furthemore audio memory is totaly unreliable . (well just speacking for me at least) .


----------



## adydula

2 O2 amps and one Odac with a second on order...comparing with my Lyr...what a difference to me.
   
  Bass is tighter and soild.
   
  Ovearll the Dac and Amp are superlative for the price...less stuff to worry about now...
   
  Have compared to a HRT MSii+ and I can not hear any real difference...one is $350 the other is $99.
   
  I absolutely agree to all the comments about the ODAC being revealing and if you have a crappy recorded and mastered flac it will sound crappy...this allows me to get back to the music and seek the best recorded and mastered source material.
   
  I am using LCD2;s, Grado 325i's and both are easily driven by the amp/ODAC.
   
  Again going back and forth with the HRT and ODAC I dont hear any real differences I can honestly discern...not so with the amps.
   
  All the things about your mindset, mood, time of day, expectation bias etc I agree with as well....I want it perfect everytime...
   
  I do find myself using the higer gain settings on the amp with the LCD2's seems to sounf fuller, or louder...then when going back to the lower gain setting and cranking up the volume I can make it sound the same but at a higher volume setting ....But my brain at times thinks its better with the higher gain initially....
   
  It so nice to see a $99 product that performs so well .....
   
  Alex


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Does anyone have this experiences with the ODAC....
> 
> Listen to first track. Sounds like I have the HD-650 on my head, but it's only the Q701. Song is "Parting Ways" from Pearl Jam.
> 
> ...


 
  Bahahaha. That is why I didn't do well in English class, always asking me to analyse this or that instead of just letting me enjoy the damn book. I'm the same with music, perhaps I don't belong on these forums?


----------



## sling5s

O2+ODAC combo or O2 with Dacport for LCD-2 and Magnums?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> O2+ODAC combo or O2 with Dacport for LCD-2 and Magnums?


 
  i use the combo (in separate boxes) with my magnums. I really, *really* like the sound.


----------



## sling5s

chrislangley4253 said:


> i use the combo (in separate boxes) with my magnums. I really, *really* like the sound.




I get the impression that since both O2 and ODAC are both cold or revealing (especially the ODAC) that it might be too much.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> I get the impression that since both O2 and ODAC are both cold or revealing (especially the ODAC) that it might be too much.


 
  well, my magnums are woodies. 
   
  It depends on the specific magnum drivers and how you are housing them really. I would suggest getting the "transparent" gear, and then maybe tuning your magnums to your taste, if they no longer appeal to you. 
   
  I wouldn't buy a warm dac or amp to try to fix strident headphones. Just silly. EQ instead


----------



## Anaxilus

The ODAC can change signature depending on the quality of power being supplied.  Nothing new, it's been discussed already.


----------



## adydula

Its not the ODAC changing the sound.....a circuit is designed to do things, in this case to convert digital bits to an analog signal.
   
  The circuit needs DC power....clean DC power...provide that and there is no real issue.
   
  I have several USB dacs and  5 pcs that I have played with and the changes u imply are so insignificant and there are many more aspects that are important.
   
  The ODAC is not cold or warm as shown in blind testing and measuremnents...it does what it does...Digital to Analog conversion...and comparisions with other DACS do show differences...but usually with the source and or the headphone types themselves.
   
  Everyone seems to be lookng for the magic sauce that will work with their headpones and their music...with the O2 amp and ODAC you at least have the part of the music reproduction chain that is transparent and constant...and most likely what you think your hearing as cold or warm...is coming from the source, or the transducers or cans themselves..and your brain, mood, having a cold, or sinus or ear infection and hundreds of other "human" things...
   
  This is why measurements are important that are done correctly and reflect what could reall affect the reproduction of the source....all the rest is subject to dicussion, debate and argument.
   
  Dont take this the wrong way...not starting a flame war etc...there are other well designed pieces of gear, amps and dacs that do very well etc....its just that we have a very well desgined low cost pairing here that is setting the audio world on its ear over simpicity, cost and what it "does not do"..
   
  And isnt that what we really want???? os is it??
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## sling5s

How would the Dacport as amp/dac combo compare to O2+ODAC
  I know it comes down to power and sound signature but anything else?


----------



## tdockweiler

I think i've gotten this ODAC issue fixed. You know what's funny?
  Thanks to this ODAC i've discovered 3 issues with my setup that i've corrected.
   
  First, it turns out that the ODAC needs a ton of power from a USB port or so it seems. This probably would not work on my laptop without a powered usb hub.
   
  Next, at one point I had plugged my amp into my $40 Belkin Surge Protector with filters. My first reaction was something like "Ah Hah! There's my nice and full mids".
  Only awhile later did I realize it was bloating the bass slightly with my DJ100 and HD-580. Even the soundstage seemed smaller. Since the Q701 is not super bassy, it's sound wasn't changed as much it seems.
  I guess the DJ100 with ODAC is good to analyze any power issues 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Some guy wrote a review of the Micro Amp and said that you shouldn't connect it to a surge protector with filtering because it robs it of power. I just laughed at that. I'm eating my words now.
   
  Next, most of my albums sounds OK, but something sounded really off. My impression was like that the mids varied too much. They were often very good and full and then the bad stuff sounds dramatically worse than they should. It felt as if the mids were super thin on this stuff and the treble was slightly too much. The treble itself seemed OK on most good music.
   
  On my HRT MSII I used Medium Gain with my amp. Sounded perfect. One reason I did this is that there was an article on Headfonia claiming low gain is generally best blah blah blah. I figured since I'm getting to the 40% volume mark with the Micro Amp that medium gain would be perfectly OK, just like on my HRT MSII. I switched back and forth and didn't hear any difference at all.
   
  At random I switched to high gain and left it there. There was this voice at first telling me to NOT DO IT because at high gain on my Q701 I need to set the volume at 8-10%!!!! If I accidentally bumped it to volume my ears might blow up.
   
  I have no clue why it sounds better. On my HRT MSII medium gain is perfect. Why the difference with the ODAC? My one idea is that maybe the Micro Amp limits the power to 1.21 gigawatts at Medium Gain. Maybe the Q701 needs about 5 Gigawatts. Here's where it gets even worse..I was doing A/B comparisons with the E10 and the E10 sounded absolutely PERFECT on medium with the Q701! What the heck?
   
  So previously I felt that bad songs were thinner that they normally should be. It seriously felt like I was listening to the Q701 with bad recordings, but with the DT-880. It felt like the Q701 was too thin and trebly, but only with the bad stuff. It was such a huge distraction. I mean the Q701 isn't this thin and sounding this way on any other dead neutral gear. Again, most warm recordings or good material sounded perfect usually. Maybe a slight extra amount of treble. It did feel that the sound was more fatiguing than it should be with bad recordings.
   
  So right now my harsh/fatiguing/bad tracks are still bad, but made to be not quite as bad. It looks like on High Gain the mids really fill in and the Q701 is back to it's old self (like medium gain on the HRT!!). The treble is now perfectly smooth mostly and even some of the fatiguing stuff isn't so bad and quite listenable. Of course you still know it's bad, but doesn't stick out as much now. So basically due to the slightly thinner mids, my brain is what made me think there was more treble. The Q701 with the bad stuff just sounded so much like my Koss A/250 and a DT-880 in the mids! Yet on a very good song it could be like say the HD-600.
   
  It's finally sounding like a normal Q701 should. The way i've ALWAYS heard it, but even better. It just didn't make sense why my Q701 would sound slightly off like this.
   
  Last night before bed this setup was sounding so amazing I didn't want to sleep!
   
  The ODAC now doesn't seem TOO REVEALING at all. It doesn't make my Q701 cold and analytical. I'm soooooo glad about this. I was thinking (and hoping) that no DAC could do that to the Q701 and I guess I was right.
   
  BTW I do find it better than the HRT MSII by far. The HRT MSII doesn't actually sound that much warmer IMO. Just slightly. In comparison to the ODAC, the HRT MSII has a much smaller soundstage.
   
  Again, the differences in how I heard this previously and now are not super huge. What i'm going to do is give it 3-5 days and then go back and check my earlier impressions. I will edit them if needed if anything is different. I plan on doing an ODAC review in a week. You wouldn't believe what a nightmare this has been! Sounding a lot more musical now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even with the garbage tracks! Nope..the ODAC doesn't suddenly rob my precious Q701 of it's natural warmth (a lot of the time it's in the recording too obviously). Just make sure it has a TON of power or something. Still annoying have to use high gain at 8% volume when medium is fine on any other DAC!! I can't explain this one.


----------



## adydula

I have a O2+ Odac with LCD2's....works very very well...
   
  A person recently asked this same type of question:
   
  recently purchased Audeze LCD-2 revision 2 the specs are;
 • Impedance: 60 Ohms, nominal
 • Maximum diaphragm excursion: 2.5mm p-p
 • Efficiency: 91 dB/1mW
 • Maximum output: 133dB, 15W

 How would the o2 cope with that? What is its power output in Watts to this headphone? how loud will it drive the LCD-2 in decibels, loud enough? I ask as I have purchased your amp and plan to use it with the LCD-2.

 I have a friend electronics engineer and he was saying from a rough quick estimate in his head, that to drive the LCD-2 to full power you would need roughly 400wrms (into 8 ohms) to drive it to full power! Mind you max output of the LCD-2 is a crazy 133db. That's a large full size speaker amp heh.

 So will the o2 suffice?

*REPLY:*
   
  There are many happy LCD-2 users using the O2. It has power to spare to drive the LCD-2 to hearing damaging levels and beyond. Your engineer friend needs either read my More Power article or start using the correct LOG button on his calculator. He's very wrong.

 The LCD-2 hits 110 dB with about 1 volt of input. Peaks of 110 dB are considered plenty loud by most people (hearing damage starts past 85 dB). 110 dB is standing on a sidewalk next to a jack hammer tearing up concrete.

 Even if you plan for 115 dB peaks, which is extremely loud, you only need about 1.7 Vrms which is 0.048 watts. The O2 can provide 5+ Vrms which is good for 124 dB SPL with the LCD-2. And that's running from battery power.

 If you really wanted to push the headphones to 133 dB you would need 14 Vrms which is 3.2 watts not 400 watts.
   
  But, long story short, even at an ear splitting 124 dB SPL that's a peak voltage of 7 volts. Ohms law gives a peak current of 7/60 = 117 mA. The O2 has a peak current capability of 200 mA per channel--nearly twice what's required.

 Current with the LCD-2 is where many headphone amps will fall on their face--especially OTL tube amps, Cmoys, and anything using a typical wimpy virtual ground or 3 channel design.
   
  Alex


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I think i've gotten this ODAC issue fixed. You know what's funny?
> Thanks to this ODAC i've discovered 3 issues with my setup that i've corrected.
> 
> First, it turns out that the ODAC needs a ton of power from a USB port or so it seems. This probably would not work on my laptop without a powered usb hub.
> ...


 
   
   
  tdock, I really think you need to try another amp that isn't the micro amp. Really, really. Something like an O2
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> I have a O2+ Odac with LCD2's....works very very well...
> 
> A person recently asked this same type of question:
> 
> ...


 
  careful calling that article "yours"


----------



## adydula

Hello....I never said it was mine.....
   
  But the post was a real one....and the facts are the facts....
   
  If you have LCD2's and really want to know if this amp will drive the cans...well sir they can...
   
  There is no hidden agenda here.....the amp and dac are really a great simple eleant design and work very very well..
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> tdock, I really think you need to try another amp that isn't the micro amp. Really, really. Something like an O2
> 
> careful calling that article "yours"


 
   
  Why? It's the best amp i've found under $400. It's a full desktop amp and pretty powerful. Better than the Asgard I previously had, E9 and the WA22. I'm really convinced it's pretty transparent and this is after using it for maybe 2 years now.
  For the life of me I can't hear any major coloration of it's own unless I have bad hearing. Unlike the Asgard it plays well with both the Sennheiser and AKG stuff (unless a colored DAC craps up the sound).
   
  I did however try the ODAC with the E9. Doesn't work with my Total Airhead or probably an E11 of course. I don't have any need for any more expensive amps. I was considering the M-Stage, but that'll probably be a side-grade (or downgrade) and not so good with the Sennheiser stuff.
   
  O2 is on my radar. I'll probably sell my E9 and get one. I want to compare it to my Micro. Doubt I can hear any difference and that's a good thing. Micro's not going anywhere though. It'll be nice to have another amp for upstairs.
   
  I actually would rather upgrade my Micro's power supply instead of getting an O2


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> The ODAC can change signature depending on the quality of power being supplied.  Nothing new, it's been discussed already.


 
   
  A lot of laptops (or even regular mother boards) don't have USB ports according to specs.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> A lot of laptops (or even regular mother boards) don't have USB ports according to specs.


 
   
  Ain't that the truth.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Why? It's the best amp i've found under $400. It's a full desktop amp and pretty powerful. Better than the Asgard I previously had, E9 and the WA22. I'm really convinced it's pretty transparent and this is after using it for maybe 2 years now.
> For the life of me I can't hear any major coloration of it's own unless I have bad hearing. Unlike the Asgard it plays well with both the Sennheiser and AKG stuff (unless a colored DAC craps up the sound).
> 
> I did however try the ODAC with the E9. Doesn't work with my Total Airhead or probably an E11 of course. I don't have any need for any more expensive amps. I was considering the M-Stage, but that'll probably be a side-grade (or downgrade) and not so good with the Sennheiser stuff.
> ...


 
  Well, in all honesty I have NOT heard it myself.. I was considering buying one though, I did a lot of research. From what I gathered the amp IS better than the DAC, however neither are that great.

 Now, that is someone else's opinion, I'm just passing it along. You might not hear a difference, if you don't, no harm done. 

 FWIW, I consider the M-stage and the O2 both transparent and indistinguishable from each other when I am blind folded.


----------



## adydula

What???
   
  Laptops and motherboards without USB ports???
   
  I am in the pc business, development etc...and have built hundreds of pc over the last 20 + yrs...and the majority of them have USB ports.
   
  Are u referring to a usb hub?? or the USB port?
   
  USB has been around for years now....1.0, 2.0 and 3.0....
   
  I just find that statment strange??/
   
  Alex


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *adydula* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Laptops and motherboards without USB ports???


 
   
  khaos974 was referring to USB ports that fully meet the specifications (particularly those related to the +5 V power supply).


----------



## adydula

Ok fine...thats better....
   
  I just build a HTPC that has USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports...
   
  I have my dac plugged into the 3.0 port and nothing else....the spec on 3.0 has increased the total power available etc..
   
  The best way to really be sure is to measure the DC voltage under load with your 'Dac' or appliance under load etc..
   
  Which is something I have wanted to do...I have a ODAC in a box and dont want to re-open that one, but I have a second one
  on its way I will measure the voltage and current draw and report back at the end of the week..
   
  I have lots of PC's avail but due to me being an employee in the business I cant really comment about dev specs etc except to say
  that the USB org specs are in the design criteria as with many mainstream pc manufacturers/sellars.
   
  That said its good to understand the current draw of your dac and what your source can suply etc...
   
  Alex


----------



## MattTCG

So is it better to plug the odac into a usb3.0 port...guessing that it might support a better power spec??


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> So is it better to plug the odac into a usb3.0 port...guessing that it might support a better power spec??


 
   
  USB3 is supposed to support up to 900 mA, while USB2 (and 1) was 500 mA.  This is just the spec and not how much a given device can or will draw.
   
  Now I'm kind of wondering the power draw of most USB-powered devices.  If a port can support a 2.5" external hard drive—consider the power drawn by the motor spinning up, the heads—surely it can support a DAC that doesn't even include an integrated headphone amp.  These should be some reasonably low-power electronics that the ODAC has.  I mean, CEntrance DACport has a DAC, a DC-DC boost converter or two (and something for the negative rail too), and a class A headphone amp.  That's a USB-powered device too.  Something seems off to me.


----------



## adydula

It may or may not...but if I have the choice I would use the USB 3.0 port.
   
  You should check the current needed by the dac etc and make sure your not going over what it can supply.
   
  If your power supply can provide the current needed at the voltage its designed for your good to go.
   
  Alex


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





adydula said:


> It may or may not...but if I have the choice I would use the USB 3.0 port.
> 
> You should check the current needed by the dac etc and make sure your not going over what it can supply.
> 
> ...


 
   
  NwAvGuy claims ODAC needs just 125mA of the allotted 500mA current available to an enumerated USB 2.0 device. Unless his estimate is way off, power problems are due to out of spec USB ports. Hopefully a USB 3.0 port would provide a steadier stream of current, even though USB 2.0 ports really should be adequate. I'm disappointed to know this is even a concern. Will point NwAvGuy and Yoyodyne this direction.


----------



## MattTCG

I am having no such problems/power issues on any ports either usb2 or 3. Sounds great with no issues no matter what it's plugged into on my pc. I do have a high end custom pc with a serious psu though...


----------



## adydula

Hi John...
   
  Thanks for the reply, that is a really light load compared to many other USB dacs, I have an HRT MSii+ that the specs state it requires 400ma. Its a wonderful dac as well.
   
  I have never had an issue with USB power on the many pcs I have built. But I will measure this for sure just to see where we are with the ODAC and my systems.
   
  The one I can post results is an ASUS OEM motherboard.
   
  Let me say that John and JDSLabs has been a great place to obtain an ODAC etc...first class support and always answers my email questions!..
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I am having no such problems/power issues on any ports either usb2 or 3. Sounds great with no issues no matter what it's plugged into on my pc. I do have a high end custom pc with a serious psu though...


 
  Me neither. I have an Asus x21e and even though the battery life is reduced if I use the ODAC without the power plugged in it sounds exactly (which is to say great!) like it does with the mains plugged in. I've tried it out of both USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports. Perhaps everyone should purchase an Asus hehe.


----------



## MattTCG

I have an Asus mobo also. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Asus FTW!!


----------



## adydula

The Asus board I build my HTPC is:
   
http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_Socket_FM1/F1A75I_DELUXE/
   
*[size=x-small]AMD A75 FCH (Hudson D3) chipset :[/size]* ​​ 4 x USB 3.0 port(s) (2 at back panel, blue, 2 at mid-board)​​ *AMD A75 FCH (Hudson D3) chipset :​* ​​ 6 x USB 2.0 port(s) (4 at back panel, black+red, 2 at mid-board)​   
This is a fabulous mini itx board the streams bit perfect hdmi all the codecs etc...​ Alex​


----------



## tdockweiler

Had another weird thing happen with my ODAC. Out of nowhere I figured I'd try to connect it back up to my PC again without the hub.
  I was using my HD-600 with the Micro Amp and one song was really muffled and not clear at all (worse than usual). Like too much mid-bass was messing with the sound.
  Switched to HD-580 and not much different. Then I tried my E9. Same thing.
   
  Connected ODAC back up to my powered usb and problem fixed!
   
  When I connect my ODAC straight to my PC it's..too much treble on the Q701. Too much mid-bass on the HD-600/580. Strange coincidence or what?


----------



## adydula

tdock...time for a new pc or just use the hub...
   
  what is the pc your using? notebook, desktop, oem or u build it?
   
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





adydula said:


> tdock...time for a new pc or just use the hub...
> 
> what is the pc your using? notebook, desktop, oem or u build it?
> 
> Alex


 

 It's a fairly recent desktop computer I built. It's from maybe 2009-2010 and using an MSI P35-Neo2 motherboard with Q6600.
  I used to upgrade my computer every year, but since I don't do any gaming there's no point. Still more than fast enough for me except for encoding movies from blu-ray.
   
   
  BTW it's onboard ALC888 from Realtek is actually not that bad. Somehow it's listed as having a built in headphone amplifier.
  Sorry, totally off topic, but here's a graph for my onboard sound (which i've only tested once). Just found it interesting:
   
  http://goldenears.net/board/53875
   
  Maybe onboard sound isn't always as bad as people want you to believe. Not that i'd still use it.


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> It's a fairly recent desktop computer I built. It's from maybe 2009-2010 and using an MSI P35-Neo2 motherboard with Q6600.
> I used to upgrade my computer every year, but since I don't do any gaming there's no point. Still more than fast enough for me except for encoding movies from blu-ray.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm, I did some brief research and it appears there are a number of people having USB power and detection problems with this board (Well, they were when the people were still using them hehe). Have you updated the Bios? I have noticed in the past when my PSU wasn't powerful enough and I started running too many things off my PC weird things would happen with USB too.
   
  I am loving this little thing. I am thinking about buying another (O)_o.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





timmyw said:


> Hmm, I did some brief research and it appears there are a number of people having USB power and detection problems with this board (Well, they were when the people were still using them hehe). Have you updated the Bios? I have noticed in the past when my PSU wasn't powerful enough and I started running too many things off my PC weird things would happen with USB too.
> 
> I am loving this little thing. I am thinking about buying another (O)_o.


 
   
  I've ended up buying 2...


----------



## adydula

Yup this little thing is really the cats meow!!
   
  I have been able to hear my LCD2's and my lowly Grado 325is like I have never heard them before compared to my Lyr with NOS tubed (#$%^&^%$#$%^) and SOHAii, ASGARD etc...
   
  You turn it on and play....no real waiting for it to warm up, small , convienent and transparent...now its do I really like the way my cans now sound??
   
  Thinking of some Grado PS500's now!!!
   
  OMG..
   
  Alex


----------



## Lausers

Just received my ODAC in the 49mm case from JDS labs.  Must be from the second batch or something because Windows 7 is recognizing it as a "USB Audio Device" as opposed to a "ODAC".  Not a bid deal... Has anyone else noticed that?


----------



## muad

Mine is recognized te7022 audio w/ spdif... sounds magnificent though.
   
  Quote: 





lausers said:


> Just received my ODAC in the 49mm case from JDS labs.  Must be from the second batch or something because Windows 7 is recognizing it as a "USB Audio Device" as opposed to a "ODAC".  Not a bid deal... Has anyone else noticed that?


 
   
  Im using the odac out of the cheapest pos hp laptop and it sounds good to my ears. Just to be sure i ran an RMAA test into my el cheapo mic input and whenever the mic input didn't limit the measurement it was considerably better than my old dac. I'm not sure if the laptop is providing enough power. What does it sound like when it's underpowered? My RMAA test from odac to mic input came out 20hz-20khz at +-.2db, does that mean its getting enough power? Or would I need to check the response under load?
   
  I also noticed the odac te7022 is much more stable with the laptop than my audio-gd fun. The fun would cut out frequently... but this is more of a fault of the laptop since my old desktop never did this.
   
  Subjectively, there is more treble presence than the audio-gd fun. This coincides nicely with the RMAA measurement since the fun has a treble roll off. The other immediately noticeable difference is in the presentation. Imaging and the soundstage is very defined and cleaner than the audio-gd fun. Also, as mentioned time and time again the experience is very recording dependent. Some stuff sound thin and lacks body. This looks to be my final dac purchase.


----------



## adydula

Where are u looking in win7?
   
  Device manager or playback devices?
   
  Alex


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





muad said:


> Mine is recognized te7022 audio w/ spdif... sounds magnificent though.
> 
> 
> Im using the odac out of the cheapest pos hp laptop and it sounds good to my ears. Just to be sure i ran an RMAA test into my el cheapo mic input and whenever the mic input didn't limit the measurement it was considerably better than my old dac. I'm not sure if the laptop is providing enough power. What does it sound like when it's underpowered? My RMAA test from odac to mic input came out 20hz-20khz at +-.2db, does that mean its getting enough power? Or would I need to check the response under load?
> ...


 
   
   
  There is no denying that this is a very good dac IMO. I don't think that anything beats it for the money. Thinking of other dacs that I've owned in the price range, the ms ii comes to mind but I'd take the odac all day over it....easily. The bifrost beats it, but you're talking $150 compared to $450 w/usb. I'd take the odac and $300 any day.


----------



## Lausers

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Where are u looking in win7?
> 
> Device manager or playback devices?
> 
> Alex


 

 I'm using a Gateway AMD N66 Laptop with three USB ports.  Plugging the ODAC into each one yields different results under playback devices:
   
  One USB port doesn't detect the ODAC at all
  Second on detects it as "USB Audio Device"
  Last one detects it as "2- ODAC"
   
  Very odd....
   
  Under device manager its detected as "UAC1 DAC"
   
  While plugging it into my Macbook Air its detected as "ODAC"
   
  Seems to me the ODAC is quite picky when it comes to USB ports...


----------



## gattari

Nice listening result S3-ODAC-O2AMP-HD-650.
I have got a step up in quality with an y usb cable to upgrade the usb power.

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





muad said:


> Mine is recognized te7022 audio w/ spdif... sounds magnificent though.
> 
> 
> Im using the odac out of the cheapest pos hp laptop and it sounds good to my ears. Just to be sure i ran an RMAA test into my el cheapo mic input and whenever the mic input didn't limit the measurement it was considerably better than my old dac. I'm not sure if the laptop is providing enough power. What does it sound like when it's underpowered? My RMAA test from odac to mic input came out 20hz-20khz at +-.2db, does that mean its getting enough power? Or would I need to check the response under load?
> ...


 

 I've got an HP laptop, but it's about 4 years old. I'm surprised how well it's held up.
   
  I've found out that when my HRT MSII was underpowered on my HP laptop it would make random pops and clicks. At random it would throw a fit and give out non-stop screeching/static like sounds until I yanked it out of the USB port.
  The mids on my Q701 were also much thinner in general and it felt as if the entire sound was much more fatiguing. With every headphone it sounded different.
   
  I also got an issue where i'd scroll down in an amp while playing music and the sound would cut out for maybe half a second.
   
  To make matters worse, some of the ports worked better than others. The top right port was unusable without the screeching sound and the left was a little better.
   
  Best advice is to try to use a powered usb hub and see if it sounds any better. I haven't tried the ODAC with my laptop yet and don't plan on it! It seems most laptops have awful USB ports. Some of them can't even power a hard drive well enough.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





lausers said:


> I'm using a Gateway AMD N66 Laptop with three USB ports.  Plugging the ODAC into each one yields different results under playback devices:
> 
> One USB port doesn't detect the ODAC at all
> Second on detects it as "USB Audio Device"
> ...


 
   
  Sometimes my usb hub has a problem detecting the ODAC.
  One time I was using the E10 and then immediately removed it and my ODAC was never detected after connecting it. I selected the E10 and played music and it was still coming through the ODAC!
  It took me nearly 4 connections to get it to redetect. Think maybe I had to yank the usb hub cable from the back of the PC. Reminds of how the old Windows XP was with usb devices..yet it's Windows 7.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





lausers said:


> Just received my ODAC in the 49mm case from JDS labs.  Must be from the second batch or something because Windows 7 is recognizing it as a "USB Audio Device" as opposed to a "ODAC".  Not a bid deal... Has anyone else noticed that?


 
   
  Odd. Every one here shows up as "ODAC" (both batches).


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Sometimes my usb hub has a problem detecting the ODAC.
> One time I was using the E10 and then immediately removed it and my ODAC was never detected after connecting it. I selected the E10 and played music and it was still coming through the ODAC!
> It took me nearly 4 connections to get it to redetect. Think maybe I had to yank the usb hub cable from the back of the PC. Reminds of how the old Windows XP was with usb devices.*.yet it's Windows 7.*


 
   
  You're not using Windows 8? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Come on man, you gotta get in the game!! jk...lol
   
  On a serious note, I suppose that because we all having difference computers with a unique set of hardware, software ect, it is often difficult to pin point a culprit. My two odac's are from Audio Poutine and have performed flawless in every environment that I've tried out.


----------



## sling5s

Placed order for O2+ODAC combo.  With so much hype on both I'm kind of excited but I fear I will be underwhelmed.
  Why? Well I'm kind of on the "warm, musical, and colored" camp.  That's just my preference.  Can't help it. 
  But I'm hoping I'm pleasantly surprised.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Placed order for O2+ODAC combo.  With so much hype on both I'm kind of excited but I fear I will be underwhelmed.
> Why? Well I'm kind of on the "warm, musical, and colored" camp.  That's just my preference.  Can't help it.
> But I'm hoping I'm pleasantly surprised.


 
   
  use a "colored" headphone


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> use a "colored" headphone


 
   
  ^^ I like this advice ^^


----------



## adydula

lausers,
   
  I would use the port where it enumerates as the ODAC and not the others. its not the ODAC its your USB implementation in that system.
   
  A bios update "may; fix this  but I doubt it.
   
  The HRT streamers the MSii and the MSii+  draw 200ma and 400 ma respectively according the specs on HRT technologies site. I had both of them and settled into the
  MSii+. I have never measured the current draw or voltage drop, but I have a USB cable modded up and will start mucking around with some measurements on some systems and see what we see...should be interesting.
   
  Alex


----------



## Rithrin

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> use a "colored" headphone


 

 ^^ me as well ^ x2


----------



## khaos974

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've had external USB hard drive that supposedly only needed power from USB crap out with several laptops due to insufficient power.


----------



## gnarlsagan

Guys there are usb cables with dual power input that should fix any problems that might arise from this forever. They are $7 on amazon.


----------



## wushuliu

Anyone wanting to get better performance out of the ODAC should consider building a 5v shunt regulated external power supply like the SSLV1.1 at diyaudio. Pretty simple build and starter kits are available (seems complicated but it really isn't). I've just finished one and it surpasses the regular linear PS I've been using which in turn was much better than the usb power. For those who have even basic skill with a soldering iron, there's a *lot* more performance to be squeezed out of this dac.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





khaos974 said:


> I've had external USB hard drive that supposedly only needed power from USB crap out with several laptops due to insufficient power.


 
   
  Been there, done that.  I feel your pain.  I wonder if it's only going to get worse w/ the Ultrabooks.  Lenovo recently started color coding the 'proper' USB port on Thinkpads yellow.  Not to mention you could get two of the same make/model laptops or desktops w/ different OEM parts based on whichever bins were exhausted first at the plant.  Oh look, this one has transcend, this one has hynix, here's a micron, there's a samsung, WEEE! on the OEM merry go round.


----------



## adydula

I have a Lenovo T400s which is several years old now with the proper yellow coded USB 2.0 port....
   
  Its there for charging stuff if you want to.
   
  It has to be to enabled in the BIOS, it was not on by default.
   
  You also have to have the charger plugged in to the the pc for this to work....except for sleep mode I believe.
   
  I use it on trips for charging the cell phone at times...other than that I dont use it..
   
  Also knowing the limitations of the current available for USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 I only have bought USB external drives
  with their own AC power adapters...
   
  Alex


----------



## sling5s

I just got the O2+ODAC.  I could not resist the price and hype.
   
  First, I was expecting something bigger.  It's so small.  Yet, it has a big sound. It really sounds like a desktop amp.
  Second, I was expecting bright and lean.  But it's smooth, clean and not lean at all.  Nice bass. Not something you get for something that resembles a portable amp. Really pleasantly surprised.
   
  I tried my JH13pro.  Wow.  Nice and smooth.  Not edgy or hot like I expected.  The bass finally came alive, something that only happens with a good desktop amp on these.
  I tried the Grado Magnums.  It of course did not warm it up but it did it accentuate it.  It sounded smooth.  
  I tried last my LCD-2 r.1.  It no longer sounded warm and creamy.  It sounded very neutral for the first time.  At least to me.
   
  But overall. I am very pleasantly happy.  I could not ask for more for such a low price and size.  Very powerful transportable, amp/dac combo that more than satisfies.


----------



## adydula

I thought the same exact thing when I first got my first one from JDSLabs...hey this is tiny...and then many say its not portable at all...compared to what I am used to this thing is small to me for sure.
   
  Sitting here listening to the one I built, I just got the second ODAC and installed in a case with the O2 amp...very nice package...
   
  Now you are hearing what your  LCD2's really sound like...totally transparent...
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## MattTCG

I had a similar experience with the odac. I was somewhat nervous about lean and bright. That's essentially the opposite of what I like to hear. What I experienced is better described as full and accurate. The bass was not diminished in the least but actually sounds better to. Trying to decide if I should go ahead and get the 02 as well or wait for the oda.


----------



## sling5s

Do get the O2 now because it's got battery powered where as the ODA will not be battery powered.  It's so cheap and so good, why just limit yourself. 
  Really...the O2 reminds me of the Corda Symphony when I had it.


----------



## gattari

The odac+o2 is a very special combination. I use it with my Sony vaio, what I ear is enjoable sound and no lean, no bright, no tiny. 

With my samsung s3 ithe sound s no as good as my Vaio.
I tried to use a y cable to powering s3 usb but .... nothing ... only with Vaio I am totally enjoied for result.

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Do get the O2 now because it's got battery powered where as the ODA will not be battery powered.  It's so cheap and so good, why just limit yourself.
> Really...the O2 reminds me of the Corda Symphony when I had it.


 
  I don't need a portable though. I have the e17 which serves me well in the capacity. Just curious to try one out and hear what the fuss is about. I haven't been let down by the odac, so I suppose that I need to take the plunge. Anyone want to loan me an o2? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am very trustworthy and dependable!!


----------



## TMRaven

Just got mine, it's really small!  why on earth they chose to put the inputs on the front I don't know.  I could manage with the O2, but with the ODAC on top of it, the cable mess becomes ridiculous. 
   
  Is this supposed to completely bypass the amp of the computer?  My Music Streamer completely turned off my imac's amp, but with the ODAC, I can still control volume with the imac.
   
  I'll try to compare it with the Music Streamer, but my HE-400 is on loan and I don't trust AD700's resolving power.


----------



## sling5s

Yeah...it's why I got the O2+ODAC combo.  I would have got separates if the O2 and ODAC came with matching cases but they are different sizes and case designs.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Just got mine, it's really small!  why on earth they chose to put the inputs on the front I don't know.  I could manage with the O2, but with the ODAC on top of it, the cable mess becomes ridiculous.
> 
> Is this supposed to completely bypass the amp of the computer?  My Music Streamer completely turned off my imac's amp, but with the ODAC, I can still control volume with the imac.
> 
> I'll try to compare it with the Music Streamer, but my HE-400 is on loan and I don't trust AD700's resolving power.


 
   
  How 'bout a pic Raven...?


----------



## TMRaven

Ok, I'll be honest here.  The big fat cable coming out of the audio-in for the O2 is the rca to 3.5 for the Music Streamer, and by getting rid of that and the music streamer, I could lower the clutter some, but I think it's safe to say the ODAC definitely isn't stackable material with the O2.  The ODAC will most likely be getting the Music Streamer treatment and be sitting behind the O2.


----------



## MattTCG

Gotcha beat on neatness!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't be hatin'...


----------



## TMRaven

Gimme a couple mins and I could make mine just as neat.  I can't replicate the daylight tho


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Gotcha beat on neatness!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How does that the E17 compare to the ODAC?


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I had a similar experience with the odac. I was somewhat nervous about lean and bright. That's essentially the opposite of what I like to hear. *What I experienced is better described as full and accurate*. The bass was not diminished in the least but actually sounds better to. Trying to decide if I should go ahead and get the 02 as well or wait for the oda.


 

 Same here. Someone describing the ODAC as cold, thin or analytical is a bunch of crap to me! I mean I can't even imagine that even with the O2 it will sound this way. It did at first somewhat, but I had fixed my problems.
  Maybe they instead are describing the headphone that's attached to it all. Like their DT-880. I tried reviewing my amp once and 6 months later I realized I was basically describing my HRT MSII's sound signature..go me!
   
  I do wonder how many people MIGHT get the ODAC and not realize their ports can't play well with it and think it's supposed to sound like that...
   
  So far i've yet to have a headphone change it's signature too much at all with the ODAC as a source. Definitely improved, but same general sound signature.
   
  I actually think the biggest improvement I heard was with my DJ100 and the ODAC! Yeah..an $80 headphone. Mostly in how much better the bass was. Didn't increase in quantity thankfully.
   
  I was hoping it could magically make my Koss A/250 very warm and full sounding, but no such luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW at times i'm almost thinking the ODAC might even sound warmer than the HRT MSII, but that's impossible. My idea is just the ODAC is more revealing of each recording. Never really occurred me to how warm some recordings are. Yes, even on my Q701.
   
  Off to try out my Sextett LP..nothing can save that thing.


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Gotcha beat on neatness!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Your setup is neat! Loved the ODAC arrangement.
   
  Btw if you want to try the O2 send me a C421 amp and I'll send you my O2 + $ what do you think?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





imackler said:


> How does that the E17 compare to the ODAC?


 
   
  I posted some impressions about the comparison somewhere but I'll give them again. 
   
  I was surprised to find that the e09k and the odac was clearly better than the e09 and e17. I suspect that because the later is made to be docked and tuned to each other that it would naturally sound better. To me, it does not. 
   
  The e09k has a switch on the front that allows you to go easily from docked e17 to odac. I've a/b ed them many times times. The odac is clearly the better dac. Better at revealing details, providing more layers of sound....without sounding too analytical but just nice and musical. 
   
  Even with the hardware EQ, one of my favorite e17 features, I'd still pick the odac.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I posted some impressions about the comparison somewhere but I'll give them again.
> 
> I was surprised to find that the e09k and the odac was clearly better than the e09 and e17. I suspect that because the later is made to be docked and tuned to each other that it would naturally sound better. To me, it does not.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for taking the time to answer! helps a ton!


----------



## Rithrin

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Anyone wanting to get better performance out of the ODAC should consider building a 5v shunt regulated external power supply like the SSLV1.1 at diyaudio. Pretty simple build and starter kits are available (seems complicated but it really isn't). I've just finished one and it surpasses the regular linear PS I've been using which in turn was much better than the usb power. For those who have even basic skill with a soldering iron, there's a *lot* more performance to be squeezed out of this dac.


 
   
  Hey, thanks for this heads up. Do you know what it was plugged into before you upgraded the power supply? Just curious. If nothing else, I think I might try the kits. What did you have it plugged into before? Was it a modern desktop board?
   
  Thanks, all the best


----------



## Lausers

Using VLC player to play my .flac and .m4a files with the ODAC, when switching from song to song, the first 1/2 second is cut off.... This does not occur when using wmp for mp3's.  Havent tested iTunes or Foobar yet.  Curious whether this is hardware based (like the issue with earlier versions of the Fiio e10) or software based. 
   
  Anyone else experience this?


----------



## adydula

I dont use VLC player, only JRiver Media now....but I have heard about this type of issue?
  You might want to post on the VLC player site ?
   
  Good Luck
  Alex


----------



## muad

So I sold my audio-gd fun and DI today... I prefer the sound of the ODAC by far. It just sounds more real and alive. The fun was smooth which made everything sound good but it killed the imaging, clarity and sound stage depth. The elements within the sound stage tended to blend together.
   
  ...now to wait for the ODA.


----------



## gnarlsagan

lausers said:


> Using VLC player to play my .flac and .m4a files with the ODAC, when switching from song to song, the first 1/2 second is cut off.... This does not occur when using wmp for mp3's.  Havent tested iTunes or Foobar yet.  Curious whether this is hardware based (like the issue with earlier versions of the Fiio e10) or software based.
> 
> Anyone else experience this?




Try musicbee. I recommend the beta in the forums.


----------



## muad

I know they say don't expect giant increases in sound quality when comparing equipment... and I really didn't. The ODAC straight into some audioengine a5 have really transformed the speakers. My mind is blown. Not sure how the ODAC will sound with the hd650's because the assessment was pointless through the only amp I had... the Fun. The distortion is too high to make a decent comparison between the fun's dac section and odac. I'm not saying that the ODAC is amazing compared to other dacs available... I have not heard other dacs. What I am saying is the dac in the audio-gd fun is absolute garbage compared to the ODAC. The Fun is obviously above the threshold for colouration and distortion. If you really want a dac to sound smooth no matter what you play through it then get yourself the Fun but there is a definite loss of fidelity.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





muad said:


> I know they say don't expect giant increases in sound quality when comparing equipment... and I really didn't. The ODAC straight into some audioengine a5 have really transformed the speakers. My mind is blown. Not sure how the ODAC will sound with the hd650's because the assessment was pointless through the only amp I had... the Fun. The distortion is too high to make a decent comparison between the fun's dac section and odac. I'm not saying that the ODAC is amazing compared to other dacs available... I have not heard other dacs. What I am saying is the dac in the audio-gd fun is absolute garbage compared to the ODAC. The Fun is obviously above the threshold for colouration and distortion. If you really want a dac to sound smooth no matter what you play through it then get yourself the Fun but there is a definite loss of fidelity.


 
  audio GD... is just really sketchy.
  
  My Sparrow was pretty terrible.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> audio GD... is just really sketchy.


 
   
  This has been most of my experience as well.  Have not heard their latest.


----------



## Dano91

Hello everyone, so this is my first post here, but I`ve been watching this site for some time now..
  This week I got my ODAC (RCA version) from Head`n`Hifi but I`m experiencing some problems.. I tried to do some RMAA test, but for some reason I just cant get beyond 81 dBA for dynamic range in 24bit mode (even lower in 16bit). As a recording device i used my external sound card Creative X-Fi HD usb (http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-System-SB1240/dp/B004275EO4) Some of you might think that its just a fault of low quality ADC in x-fi, but when i measured only x-fi in loopback (Line out -> Line in) I get dynamic range of 101 dBA which is quite in match with other online reviews of this x-fi card. So at first I thought its problem with power supply in my notebook as had been mentioned here so I also tried it on my desktop pc with quality psu, but with the same result. And to be honest I cant hear any difference between creative x-fi + O2 amp vs. ODAC + O2.. both with HD600. So I want to ask you - could somebody pls provide their RMAA test of your ODAC and share results?? (and sorry for my english)


----------



## stv014

I recommend reading this thread for information on PC based measurements. The most likely reason why you get poor SNR is that there is a ground loop between the ODAC and the X-FI HD USB, since both are connected to the same PC. If that is the case, try using a USB isolator, or two separate isolated computers (e.g. a PC and a battery powered laptop) for playback and recording.
  A simple example that shows how much difference a grounding problem can make: with a direct loopback between my Xonar D1 and STX (in the same machine), I get a noise floor of about -92 dBA. Adding a differential amplifier to eliminate the ground loop improves that to better than -113 dBA (the Xonar D1 is advertised as having an SNR of 116 dB, which is a realistic value once the additional noise from the differential amplifier and the ADC of the Xonar STX is taken into account).


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> And to be honest I cant hear any difference between creative x-fi + O2 amp vs. ODAC + O2.. both with HD600.


 
   
  If the X-Fi already has a good enough DAC, then it is hard to notice a further improvement, assuming there is any. After some point, the error introduced by the DAC to the signal becomes inaudible, and an upgraded one will sound the same if both are designed to be transparent (some "boutique" products are not).


----------



## Dano91

Thx a lot! I will try to measure it again with two separated pc`s, hopefully there will be some differences in numbers Btw, this ground loop problem doesnt show when looping the same device on one computer? (e.g. x-fi line out -> x-fi line-in)


----------



## stv014

It normally does not affect a simple line out->line in loopback with a single device.


----------



## zilch0md

I've posted a comparison of the ODAC with the CEntrance DACport LX and iBasso DB2, here.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## imackler

Hey all!
   
  1st time dac user. I'm getting a lot of cutting out with my ODAC > O2. It's happening whether I use foobar or media player, whether flac or 320 kbps. I just mention this because I'm trying to narrow what the options are. It's like there is skipping, but not quite as long as when a cd skips. More like when a headphone jack jostles. I've jiggled all the jacks and can't find anything. Of course, it happens when I'm perfectly still. I've also tried two different usb cords, a monoprice 4' and a sansa clip 8" or so. Its not constant but happens as soon as you're enjoying the music, about every 20 or 30 seconds. Its really jarring. 
   
  Any ideas where I should start my troubleshooting?


----------



## gnarlsagan

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> I've posted a comparison of the ODAC with the CEntrance DACport LX and iBasso DB2, here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike


 
   
  Great review. I will spend a lot of time now looking for slight etch in the highs.


----------



## LouisLoh

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Hey all!
> 
> 1st time dac user. I'm getting a lot of cutting out with my ODAC > O2. It's happening whether I use foobar or media player, whether flac or 320 kbps. I just mention this because I'm trying to narrow what the options are. It's like there is skipping, but not quite as long as when a cd skips. More like when a headphone jack jostles. I've jiggled all the jacks and can't find anything. Of course, it happens when I'm perfectly still. I've also tried two different usb cords, a monoprice 4' and a sansa clip 8" or so. Its not constant but happens as soon as you're enjoying the music, about every 20 or 30 seconds. Its really jarring.
> 
> Any ideas where I should start my troubleshooting?


 
   
  Is it an integrated unit? Try another USB DAC if you have one. Then feed the O2 with analogue from another source, perhaps a portable player.
   
  If it's two separate pieces, try another headphone amplifier, and another I/C.


----------



## adydula

imackler,
   
  Several things...one is to check the pre-buffering settings. dependng on the PC, Dac, OS and or playback software this may have to be adjusted.
   
  Also I had a pop / tic issue on one system and not another and it was a corrupted file...
   
  Alex


----------



## fenderf4i

Quote: 





gnarlsagan said:


> Great review. I will spend a lot of time now looking for slight etch in the highs.


 
   
  lol are you serious?


----------



## gnarlsagan

fenderf4i said:


> lol are you serious?




Haha yeah but I don't think my iems are resolving enough to find it if it exists. Zilch0md seems pretty convinced of this slight lack of resolution in the highs after his blind test.


----------



## lukeahale

His description sounded to me more likely to be a power issue, as though the ODAC is clipping? It seems to be common with the ODAC(luckily I have not had issues myself).


----------



## zilch0md

Yes, that was the conclusion reached in my e-mail exchange with JDS Labs - that it was a power issue - but the DACport LX didn't suffer these anomalies when running on the same USB port, same laptop, same USB cable.
   
  The DACport (not to be confused with the DACport LX) actually contains five independent power supplies in its circuitry.  Here's a CEntrance blog that includes a discussion of DACport power management.
   
  Anyone who's having power-related problems with the ODAC (or any other USB-powered devic)e might be interested in getting...
   
  ...one of these...  MicroTik 5VUSB Power Injector
   
   

   
   
   
  ...and one of these...   5V 2A Power Supply terminated with a 1.3 x 3.5mm barrel connector
   

   
  Together, they can supply a USB device with up to 2.0 Amps of regulated 5-Volt DC power that's not shared with any other USB devices.  (This solution requires, however, that you use your USB DAC within reach of a 120V AC outlet.)  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Note:  I've ordered these, but I haven't received them yet.  Anyone interested, might want to wait before placing an order yourself, until I've had time to confirm that this contraption actually works.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll post a follow-up when I've done so.
   
  Mike


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Yes, that was the conclusion reached in my e-mail exchange with JDS Labs - that it was a power issue - but the DACport LX didn't suffer these anomalies when running on the same USB port, same laptop, same USB cable.
> 
> The DACport (not to be confused with the DACport LX) actually contains five independent power supplies in its circuitry.  Here's a CEntrance blog that includes a discussion of DACport power management.
> 
> ...


 
  awaiting your update


----------



## adydula

Mike,
   
  Good that you found a solution, I hope it works.
   
  Its odd that the ODAC does this...the current draw is only 125 ma from what I know.
   
  I had this type of issue of dropouts with a HRT MSii+ USB dac that draws 400 ma. on one pc in particular....its a homebuilt system.
  On a commercial system it worked fine with default pre-buffering settings. But not on the homebuilt. The ODAC on this homebuilt system works just fine.
   
  I am testing a few pcs for voltage drop and current draw in the real world with a modded usb cable, voltmeter and ammeter.
   
  I will post some results later this week.
   
  Do you know what the current draw spec is for the Centrix?
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Alex,
   
  This blog entry at the CEntrance site says that they conducted a survey, determining that the typical USB port can deliver 500mA at 5V.  
   
  They then designed the DACport to start out drawing only 60 mA, but during normal operation it demands no more than 400 mA.  
   
  These numbers are for their DACport, which has a both a DAC and a headphone amplifier.  
   
  I would imagine that their DACport LX (the device I reviewed) must therefore have a peak demand of something less than 400 mA (given that it's just the DAC, without the amplifier.)
   
*Do you have an ODAC and, if so, is it exhibiting symptoms similar to what I described in my review?*
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## adydula

Hi Mike,
   
  I have (2) ODACs and (2) O2 Amps.
   
  I have run them off of USB 2.0 and 3. ports on 2 desktops and 2 laptops all with none of the issues you report
  in your review.
   
  Complete classical pieces are handled very well to my ears. I have listened to the ODAC now for 2 weeks with several desktop head amps and pcs....the only issue I have had with any dropouts was with my HRT MSii+ when moving to a new ASUS HTPC mini-itx motherboard that has both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports. This was resolved with pre-buffering settings...
   
  I never experienced any issues with the ODAC. It just works for me.
   
  I dont know if you have tried to remove ALL other usb devices from your system and re-try etc...
  USB 2. should provide 500 ma, USB 3.0 I think increased this to 750 ma if I remeber correctly....need to check the specs.
   
  If I wanted to be sure and wanted to use a USB Dac, knowing what I know I would make sure that only the USB Dac is on a seperate hub/connection and nothing else.
   
  Alex
   
  Here is a good link to read up on powering devices from USB:
  http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt118/slyt118.pdf


----------



## zilch0md

Alex,
   
  Thanks for the link to that great article!
   
  I expect to receive the two items pictured in my post on the previous page either today or tomorrow, but (bummer) I'm no longer in possession of an Objective DAC that I can test, so here's a proposal...
   
  I can tell, just from reading your recent posts, that in addition to having two ODACs that you can test with my proposed "solution," it seems you certainly have the skills and equipment with which to do a much better job than I could, assessing whether or not the idea is viable.
   
*If you are willing, and for the good of the ODAC user community, I'd like to pass the baton to you and just give you (for keeps) the USB injector and 5V power supply.*  Seriously.  
   
  I was going to try testing them with the CEntrance DACport LX I've bought, just to see if it works at all, but you seem to be far better equipped to measure voltages, check polarities, etc. -AND- to see how the ODAC performs with it.  
   
  I think members following this thread would be much better served if you evaluated it, than me, even though your ODACs aren't exhibiting any problems, currently.
   
  Later, if you find that this injector + power supply combo does a good job of providing power to the ODAC (providing correct voltage and polarity, for example), and you find that it introduces no issues with sound quality, you could, at your choosing, pass it on to someone who's actually suffering power-supply symptoms with their ODAC.   If, on the other hand, it doesn't work well with the ODAC, for any reason, feel free to keep it for other projects - there's no need to return them to me.
   
  Send me a PM with your mailing address, if you're interested.  I really think you're the right guy for the job.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks!
   
  Mike


----------



## adydula

Hi Mike,
   
  The 5 volt Microtiek adapter...in one of the Amazon comments mentions its putting out 6 volts....so buyer beware.
   
  You wont really know what the voltage is until plugged into the wall socket and measure the DC voltage.
   
  The USB 2.0 spec is 5 volts +/- 5% or varies from 4.75 volts to 5.25 volts.
   
  6 volts is on the high side of the spec....so even though it probably would work I would not really want to do this with a $99 ODAC....
   
  I would do one of the three things: (If I experienced a power issue)
   
  1. Use a seperate powered external USB Hub with no devices except for my ODAC.
  2. Try with only the ODAC plugged into the PC in question and if its still bad then nuber one or three.
  3. Try a differnent PC.
   
  The Power injection device I would want to make sure that the device and cables do not allow voltage from the PC on the DC buss and only the 5 volts from the adapter.
  You want to make sure you dont have two DC supplies hooked up from differnent power sources!
   
  I will PM you as well..
   
  Thanks for the kind words!!
   
  I try to be frank and honest and tell the truth...I dont know everything and am not afraid to ask!! LOL!!
   
  Alex!!


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks Alex!
   
  I'll ship them to you when they arrive - and you can test it all to see if its OK with the ODAC.  (If you get as far as plugging the ODAC into it.)
   
  Oddly, when I check this link at Amazon from which I ordered the power supply, I see no mention of 6-Volts.  It's described as a 5-Volt 2.0-Amp supply.
   
  And when I check this link from which I ordered the MicroTik 5VUSB Injector, I again see no mention of 6-Volts.  (I didn't order it from Amazon.  I only ordered the power supply from Amazon.)
   
  Where exactly did you see a specification of 6 Volts?
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## adydula

Mike...
   
  Here on Amazon...
   
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3W0XV5E0C506T/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B001PUSERA&nodeID=541966&store=pc
   
  But again I dont trust anything until I actually measure it under no-load and load etc..
   
  Alex
   
  Note also want to make sure the cable is not wired for dc from the USB pc port and only the injector is supplying the DC voltage.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Mike...
> 
> Here on Amazon...
> 
> ...


 
   
  I see what you mean, in that buyer's review.   Ugggh!   Well, I'll test the voltage when I get it and if it really is 6V, then I'll return it and order a different 5V 2A power supply that has a 1.3 x 3.5mm barrel connector.  There are several to choose from.  We will get there...
   
  Mike


----------



## zilch0md

Alex,
   
  I received the 5V 2A regulated power supply from Amazon, today.  
   
  Best of all, it measures a steady 4.99VDC (center positive) on my multimeter.  

   
   
  That reviewer who measured 6V must have received a lemon (or he has a bad voltmeter.)
   
  I'm still waiting on the USB power injector:
   
   

   
  I have some concern about whether or not the plug will fit the jack, but going by the specs for each of them, I think it will work  (1.0mm I.D. x 3.5mm O.D.   vs.   1.3mm I.D. x 3.5mm O.D.) 
   
  Another question is whether or not the polarity will be correct.
   
  It's pretty standard practice for the pin to be positive and the sleeve to be negative, though, right?
   
  If this idea works, it will make a much smaller package (for transport) than something like a D-Link or Belkin USB hub.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## tdockweiler

I've had my ODAC for maybe a week or two now I think. Zero problems with it now and it's a keeper.
   
  I've noticed that it doesn't *seem* to be as revealing as my HRT MSII. I mean I don't seem to be getting detail overload or anything. I don't believe it's really analytical. That gives people the wrong impression. I doubt it'll really transform a headphone into something it's not.
  The only major difference is that it sounds smoother than the HRT MSII. Larger soundstage and it seems like better imaging. I think maybe the HRT just is a bit darker overall.
  I originally thought the HRT had fuller mids with the Q701, but now I don't know if this is true. I'd say the HRT made some Sennheisers a bit warmer maybe. Just a tad. That's maybe why I didn't like the MSII with the HD-600 or 598.
   
  I know the science guys will hate this one (so just ignore it), but I can now barely tell the difference between any of my cables. With the HRT MSII it was stupid easy. I mean they were not dramatically different or something. I don't know what this says.
  On my E9 + HRT I can't tell much difference between cables, but with the Micro Amp + HRT it was quite easy. I think the only difference is due to capacitance. I couldn't tell any difference between cables on my Q701 until I got my MSII. ZERO!
   
  Believe it or not the headphone with the biggest improvement in sound is my $80 Koss Pro DJ100. Even more so than my Q701. Pretty surprised. The biggest improvement was in the size of the soundstage and how much better the bass was. I've never heard the bass of the DJ100 improving with any amp really (as long as it was well amped to begin with). The ODAC basically keeps the DJ100's signature the way it's supposed to be, but improving everything. I'm glad to report it doesn't make the DJ100 any warmer than it should be like the HRT MSII did.
   
  BTW I'm listening to a 96kbps song right now and it sounds listenable. Don't ask me how I have one even in my collection. Wow, didn't even know that. Some recordings can sound much worse and be FLAC. I do have some 128kbs stuff that is unlistenable though due to the bitrate.
   
  My KRK KNS-8400 didn't suddenly become even more analytical and less musical. Sounds just how it should. Sure wish it made my Koss Pro4AAAT and K240 Sextett listenable though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think I have the world's worst Sextett. Way too dark and very muffled.


----------



## LoveKnight

Hi, Guys! I just want to ask one question. What do you think about the combo which is ODAC + C421 (OPA2227)? I have Fiio E10 and C421 but I think Fiio E10 is still not good enough for me. I want to upgrade a better DAC. Thanks for reading this question.


----------



## Anaxilus

E10 is not good enough.  It has/had low end bass roll off and a sort of typical low-fi grain synonymous w/ lack of resolution.  ODAC is much better.  I was considering an E10 until I tried one out of three different setups at a meet.


----------



## adydula

tdockwieler....
   
  I too think or thougt that the HRT and the ODAC were different in sound quality and I know I am biased towards the HRT....my Bias were/are...it costs more so it has to sound better, its asynch vs non-asynch, its in nicer package, it draws more current, it has lights on it that light up!! yadda, yadda, yadda..
   
  So the one thing that i noticed with my HRT MSii+ is that the output is higher than the ODAC.
   
  So when going back and forth the HRT will play louder into my cans and appears immediately louder, more clear, more alive etc...until i match the levels.
   
  So this may be it at least for me...
   
  I find if I set the volumes the same and play several songs they are identical to me....
   
  After that its back to the music..
   
  Alex


----------



## Slickman

I just received my ODAC, I think. I'm not sure if I got the right thing now. From the pictures it looked like it was about the size of a DVD drive for a computer. I got it and it is TINY, I'm not expecting much from this small package. I'll have time to test it tomorrow.


----------



## .Sup

it sure is tiny.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





slickman said:


> I just received my ODAC, I think. I'm not sure if I got the right thing now. From the pictures it looked like it was about the size of a DVD drive for a computer. I got it and it is TINY, I'm not expecting much from this small package. I'll have time to test it tomorrow.


 
  nope, that's it.


----------



## sling5s

I think the dacport is much more airy, detailed with much better instrument separation but the odac is smoother, fuller with better bass.


----------



## adydula

Good things come in small packages.....be open minded its been compared to a lot more expensive dacs....
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## Slickman

So by looking at pictures of people that got the odac and C421, I'm guessing the C421 is the same size? That's kind of cool though because when I go to show people the sound they will LOL at first and think not much power will come from such a small package. I have to wait until October when I get my Terminator V4 to be able to test my set up.


----------



## adydula

Pix for size comparisons...
  BareBones ODAC, no case.

   
   
  ODAC in small standalone enclosure.

   
  Alex


----------



## MattTCG

Naked odac!!


----------



## antberg

Subscribed,
  as i am convinced to buy the Odac,along the O2 ,great option for not so deep pockets!
  I have been following the thread since the beginning ,useful.
   
  Salute


----------



## Slickman

I searched in this thread but I'm still not really sure what to set foobar and windows to. The highest quality stuff I will listen to is my flac files which are all 16/44.1. Should I set windows and foobar to 16/44.1 or set them to 24/44.1? Also, I should be using event and not push mode for wasapi right?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





slickman said:


> I searched in this thread but I'm still not really sure what to set foobar and windows to. The highest quality stuff I will listen to is my flac files which are all 16/44.1. Should I set windows and foobar to 16/44.1 or set them to 24/44.1? Also, I should be using event and not push mode for wasapi right?


 
  24/96  in windows
   
  Don't bother with Wasapi, it doesn't make a difference.
   
  I mean, use it if you want.


----------



## chrislangley4253

so uhh.. something kinda interesting happens when I turn my cheapo walmart fan from medium to low.
   
  it kills my odac playback
   
  I had a similar problem with my vintage pencil sharpener
   
  I'm sure the problem is the fan/pencil sharpener/wiring in this house, but.. it's alarming/eye-opening to say the least. I never realized something plugged into one outlet could affect a dac, plugged into my computer, plugged into a power strip, plugged into a completely different outlet.

 Anyone else experience similar problems?


----------



## Slickman

Here's the thing, I want the program to play my 16 bit files as 16 bit. So if I set windows to 24/96 and Foobar to 24 bits will it play 16 bits natively or will it upsample it?


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





slickman said:


> Here's the thing, I want the program to play my 16 bit files as 16 bit. So if I set windows to 24/96 and Foobar to 24 bits will it play 16 bits natively or will it upsample it?


 
   
  If you set foobar to WASAPI mode, then it doesnt matter what you have set in windows because wasapi bypass any windows settings. 
  16bit files played in 24bit wasapi mode will be just padded with zeros (to be in 24bit resolution) but this process doesnt change any audio information, therefor no upsampling. Basically you cant hear difference between 16bit file played in 16bit mode vs. 16bit file played in 24bit mode (as long as you have digital volume set to 100%). But 24bit has its advantages so you probably should use it even if you are playing 16bit files..


----------



## willmax

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Pix for size comparisons...
> BareBones ODAC, no case.
> 
> 
> Alex


 
   
  Head-Fi porn > naked ODAC!
   
  What phone is this by the way?


----------



## MattTCG

Looks like a Samsung Galaxy to me...sexy in it's own right.


----------



## DanBa

[size=13.600000381469727px]Samsung Galaxy S III & ODAC:[/size]
http://www.head-fi.org/t/624102/dap-with-unamped-line-out-and-good-dac#post_8674007
   
  [size=13.600000381469727px]Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> 4-in-1 connection kit substituting a USB OTG cable >> ODAC >> Headstage Arrow G3 amp [/size]


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





danba said:


> [size=13.600000381469727px]Samsung Galaxy S III & ODAC:[/size]
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/624102/dap-with-unamped-line-out-and-good-dac#post_8674007
> 
> [size=13.600000381469727px]Galaxy S III > digital audio stream >> 4-in-1 connection kit substituting a USB OTG cable >> ODAC >> Headstage Arrow G3 amp [/size]


 
   
   
  Hey that looks fantastic!! I am jealous of your Galaxy S...


----------



## drews

Deleted


----------



## Slickman

Looks like I have to set my odac to 16 bit in windows anyway because I don't get audio for youtube or anything else besides foobar if I set it to 24 bit.


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





slickman said:


> Looks like I have to set my odac to 16 bit in windows anyway because I don't get audio for youtube or anything else besides foobar if I set it to 24 bit.


 

 That`s because you are using wasapi mode. It`s the way it works. It doesn`t have anything with 24bit. Try in foobar DS mode and you should be able to use youtube/anything even in 24bit selected in foobar/windows. Actually there isn`t any reason to be using wasapi mode in foobar..


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I was thinking about getting the odac+o2 but got the Teac UD-H01. One day Amazon had it for $360 and so I sent the link to zzounds and they popped back with $350, so I'm making payments on it. So....


----------



## Timmyw

There's something......disturbing about that image.
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> I was thinking about getting the odac+o2 but got the Teac UD-H01. One day Amazon had it for $360 and so I sent the link to zzounds and they popped back with $350, so I'm making payments on it. So....


----------



## Slycks

dano91 said:


> That`s because you are using wasapi mode. It`s the way it works. It doesn`t have anything with 24bit. Try in foobar DS mode and you should be able to use youtube/anything even in 24bit selected in foobar/windows. Actually there isn`t any reason to be using wasapi mode in foobar..



 
 I'm a little confused by this, I've been reading guides so I can properly setup the ODAC when it arrives and most seem to recommend XP-ASIO/KS or Win7-WASAPI for Foobar. Am I missing something? Also, is there a definitive little guide on how to setup Foobar and windows settings properly for the ODAC in Win XP and Win 7? I've read pieces of info here and there and it's getting rather confusing for me! So I've probably gotten a lot of things wrong here, can someone correct me or go into more detail? - Win XP - install ASIO in Foobar (or use KS, but ASIO preferred), set to 24 bit, remove all DSPs, set foobar and windows volume sliders to max, use headphone amp volume controls, no Windows settings needed to be changed - Win 7 - install WASAPI in Foobar, set to 24 bit, remove all DSPs, etc. etc., change Windows settings to 24 bit / 96? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





slycks said:


> I'm a little confused by this, I've been reading guides so I can properly setup the ODAC when it arrives and most seem to recommend XP-ASIO/KS or Win7-WASAPI for Foobar. Am I missing something?Also, is there a definitive little guide on how to setup Foobar and windows settings properly for the ODAC in Win XP and Win 7? I've read pieces of info here and there and it's getting rather confusing for me! So I've probably gotten a lot of things wrong here, can someone correct me or go into more detail?- Win XP - install ASIO in Foobar (or use KS, but ASIO preferred), set to 24 bit, remove all DSPs, set foobar and windows volume sliders to max, use headphone amp volume controls, no Windows settings needed to be changed- Win 7 - install WASAPI in Foobar, set to 24 bit, remove all DSPs, etc. etc., change Windows settings to 24 bit / 96?Thanks in advance!


 

 That`s all correct, except that you don`t have to be using wasapi in win7. If you want to, you could use it, but then you will have no sound from youtube/other soft unless you stop playback in foobar. That`s because wasapi use exclusive mode so it will "lock" sound only for foobar.


----------



## Slickman

Quote: 





dano91 said:


> That`s because you are using wasapi mode. It`s the way it works. It doesn`t have anything with 24bit. Try in foobar DS mode and you should be able to use youtube/anything even in 24bit selected in foobar/windows. Actually there isn`t any reason to be using wasapi mode in foobar..


 
   
   No, I'm talking about when Foobar is closed. I know it's supposed to mute everything with Foobar open, but when it's closed I can't hear youtube or anything else unless I set it to 16/44.1 in windows.


----------



## Slickman

OK, so it looks like some kind of mixer was still running from my X-Fi card. I restarted and disabled everything that had to do with my X-Fi card. I set windows to 24/96 and Foobar to 24 and everything is working perfect now.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





timmyw said:


> There's something......disturbing about that image.


 
  That's because there is. But I would get banned if I posted the entire photo. Google yogurt guy if you dare


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> That's because there is. But I would get banned if I posted the entire photo. Google yogurt guy if you dare


 
  It's not that bad.

 The internet has ruined me though.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> That's because there is. But I would get banned if I posted the entire photo. Google yogurt guy if you dare


 
  4chan have we?


----------



## tdockweiler

Ok, this is seriously weird.
  I was listening to a new CD player today. Came across a bunch of songs that sounded bad. Just sounded very harsh and fatiguing. Gave my ears a fit.
  I immediately tried lots of different headphones and about 5 other full sized CD players (yeah, i'm weird). Same thing. Just garbage tracks where it felt as if the mids and treble were cranked up in the studio.
  Even tried several amps including the E9. No change.
   
  I then switched to my ODAC and listened to the same CDs. They're much easier on the ears and if I didn't know any better I'd have not realized how bad these recordings were.
   
  One example is "Airbag" on Radiohead's "OK Computer". Sounds like poop on 4-5 of my CD players, but fine on the ODAC. Why? You'd think it'd actually be WORSE on the ODAC.
   
  Is it that my CD players are so revealing or just so colored? I doubt that's the case. Most of them are from the early 90's and I even tried a recent Oppo.
   
  After trying my ODAC I switched to two other computer sources that measure perfectly flat. They sounded as bad as they were on my CD players.
   
  I'm not complaining, but this is a bit strange.
   
  BTW does the ODAC have rolled off treble? I don't even know if i've seen any measurements of it yet. It's treble now almost seems TOO smooth. I guess I like that.
   
  I want my garbage tracks sounding like garbage dangit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Oh yeah.. it's interesting that my onboard sound isn't that bad. Measures and sounds pretty flat. Even the X-Fi Go Pro does.
   
  Another thing..if anyone says the ODAC is a poor match for the Q701 they're lying!
   
  ODAC is nice and musical for me. Doesn't seem as revealing of bad tracks for me as the HRT MSII. I'm not complaining!!


----------



## purrin

The ODAC measures perfectly flat. I've actually measured FR, and a few others to corroborate some of nwavguy's measurements. Out of my PC (not laptop), the ODAC's treble sounds smooth and extended. If anything it slightly lacks bite and that last bit of bass explosiveness.


----------



## headwig

I have to say, I'm puzzled by the reports of other people here. I'm usually extremely sensitive to harsh or grainy treble and will quickly stop the music rather than put up with something that fatigues. But the O2 + ODAC combo I have from JDS Labs has never struck me as remotely unpleasant to listen to. The sound is stable, solid and well balanced, extremely musical, whenever the source file is decent. It sounds equally good on both my desktop computers and my laptop - detailed and smooth, a pleasure to listen to even for long sessions. When I first heard it I knew it was one of those rare, utterly satisfactory devices that I would want to keep, and that impression hasn't decreased over the last few months. So it's weird to me that other people are having such a rough time with it - I can't hear the harshness they are describing in my device at all. I'm using Westone 4R earphones and a USB cable that JDS Labs supplied, which appears to have one of those ferrite chokes at the ODAC end.


----------



## gattari

Odac is good. 
But with my hd 800 is not a perfect combo. I solved the light exuberance on mid High - high with a - 1db digital attenuation in my source galaxy S3. Siyhas kernel and now the sound are perfect also with my hd800, very good sound now. 
I am interested on jkdac32, anyone compare it with odac.? 


Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2


----------



## adydula

With the ODAC and the O2 garbage in and you get garbage out....thats the great thing about this pairing...
   
  The freq response is indeed FLAT as can be.....and has been measured by a few independent sources now as well.
   
  Gone are the day days of buying an amp or dac to tune your sound...well at least for some of us!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now its the source, good or not so good and the cans.....
   
  Alex


----------



## Anaxilus

I hate to break it to you, but most amps and dacs have always measured flat.  This is not a revelation or cure for cancer for that matter.


----------



## Slycks

Quote: 





dano91 said:


> That`s all correct, except that you don`t have to be using wasapi in win7. If you want to, you could use it, but then you will have no sound from youtube/other soft unless you stop playback in foobar. That`s because wasapi use exclusive mode so it will "lock" sound only for foobar.


 
   
  I thought WASAPI/Win7 and ASIO/XP were the best possible settings?  I'm also reading a lot about shared mode settings and exclusive mode settings, and earlier in the thread there is mention that ASIO/Xp doesn't work with the ODAC?  Can someone kindly share their complete XP/Win7 and Foobar settings for use with the ODAC?


----------



## .Sup

slycks said:


> I thought WASAPI/Win7 and ASIO/XP were the best possible settings?  I'm also reading a lot about shared mode settings and exclusive mode settings, and earlier in the thread there is mention that ASIO/Xp doesn't work with the ODAC?  Can someone kindly share their complete XP/Win7 and Foobar settings for use with the ODAC?



I am so glad I don't use a PC as my source any more, I was also like that, concerning myself with details such as Wasapi and Asio, different audio players and isolating PC noise form other components. Now I use an ipod or ipad and just press play without any equalization or enhancements. Plus it consumes much less energy


----------



## adydula

This stuff is not as complicated as many of you think.
   
  I use WIN 7 Pro 64 with JRiver. WASAPI-Event Mode is used. Its easy to setup for bitperfect playback from FLAC files.
   
  My display is a 58" plasma display that is easily visable across the room and accessed with a wireless keyboard.
   
  The playback devices is set to the dac I want to use, I have several and several amps hooked to the PC via USB.
   
  The majority of my cds are 16bit/44.1Khz and I have several 24 bit cds so my playback dac settings is set to 44.1/24bit.
   
  The Jriver media player has a neat bitperfect icon that glows green indicating that your in bitperfect mode and the player and OS are not mucking with the bits from the flacs....
   
  Its not that hard to do and the effieiency of having intstant access to thousands of songs in bitperfect fashion is very very nice to me,
   
  I went thru many comparisons to be able to trust the sound I was hearing using a PC vs a discrete player.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I hate to break it to you, but most amps and dacs have always measured flat.  This is not a revelation or cure for cancer for that matter.


 
   
  Then why do they always make my headphones sound like poop?
   
  First it was the Asgard and the K702/K601, then the HRT MSII with the HD-600/598.
  Maybe both of these are slightly colored.
   
  It's weird how a DAC like the E10 can sound great with some headphones, but ruins the DJ100 and HD-598 (IMO). Supposed to measure flat or so they say.
   
  I guess you did say* most*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not all.
   
  It seems that every popular amp/dac I've tried based on Head-Fi suggestions I've found to be only great with specific headphones. I hate this!
  I want my amp and DAC to be good with 95% of headphones.
   
  I'm just glad to be done with this amp/dac synergy non-sense.
   
  What's funny is that the most hated amp on Head-Fi (or so it seems) the E9 is one of the few that actually sounds perfectly flat to me and good with nearly everything i've tried it with.


----------



## My3uka

I haven't noticed any difference in sound quality using the primary sound drivers and wasapi support on foobar2000.


----------



## headwig

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> I hate to break it to you, but most amps and dacs have always measured flat.  This is not a revelation or cure for cancer for that matter.


 
   
  I don't know whether that's true, but it's certainly true that frequency response is just one check you can do to see how a component is performing, and not even necessarily the most important check. Many kinds of distortion would show kind of deviation from flatness in the frequency response curve, but that doesn't mean a flat frequency response will always sound good - many other variables will affect the sound. So you can't say "component X is flat" and expect that to close the debate.
   
  That said, I don't think NwAvGuy takes such a simplistic approach, and I do find that the O2/ODAC combo sounds very good. Perhaps this is because he is careful about measurements across the board, not just in relation to flat frequency response?


----------



## adydula

Stuff has to be measured under load or real world conditions....lots of things change as the frequency changes etc...take the time to read his blog...many hundreds of posts about how measurements are taken and which ones can really affect the sound etc...
   
  Alex


----------



## zilch0md

For those who were following this topic...
   
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> Anyone who's having power-related problems with the ODAC (or any other USB-powered device) might be interested in getting...
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've received both of these, done some preliminary testing without attaching a DAC, and this morning, mailed them to Alex (adydula), for more thorough testing.
   
  At this time, I can only say that the barrel connector of the 5V 2A power supply is a good fit to the MicroTik 5VUSB Power Injector, and that the power supply puts out a steady 4.99V, as measured with my multimeter.
   
  When Alex receives these, he will make some additional measurements to make sure that they are safe for use with the ODAC (or any other 5VUSB DAC), before actually attaching one of his ODACs to it.
   
  All said and done, this could turn out to be a smaller, lighter way to go than using a multi-port USB hub near an AC outlet, but as Head-Fi member DanBa pointed out in a different thread, we might also be able to use the MicroTik 5VUSB Power Injector with a 5V battery pack that's made for charging USB devices - no AC outlet required.
   
   
                                
   
*Verbatim AA Power Pack Charger            USB to 3.5mm BarrelJack 5V DC Power Cable         MicroTik 5VUSB Power Injector*
   
   
  More from Alex, when he has reached a verdict...
   
  Mike


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





headwig said:


> So you can't say "component X is flat" and expect that to close the debate.


 
   
  Well then it's a very good thing I never did.  Unless you meant to say 'one' instead of 'you'.


----------



## adydula

It not only that he is careful with measurements across the board but its "what" measurements really do affect the sound quality or output of a headphone amp.
   
  Figure out what these are, zero in on them, measure and test and re-test until you get the specs well into inaudibility....and he has done this rather well with the O2 amp and Dac.
   
  The results speak for themselves..
   
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

You know what the ODAC sounds like to me? The old PS1 SCPH-1001! The one with RCA jacks.
  All my harsh and fatiguing tracks that were awful on my 5 other CD players are now quite listenable, just like on the ODAC.
  Maybe this idea people have about the 1001 being so good is really no lie. 1001 is perhaps warmer and not as detailed, but pretty close.
  I was listening to that with my Q701 and modded HD-600 and loved every minute of it. Now I just need to find out if there's a way to use a remote with an adapter of some sorts.
  Probably not.
   
  It seems most people imagine the ODAC as some analytical detail monster, but not for a second has it ever sounded that way. OK, sure when it wasn't functioning correctly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here's another huge mystery for me I can't figure out...
   
  When I had my HRT MSII the difference between the E9 and Micro Amp was huge. It's as if the E9 wasn't really all that revealing of the true signature of the HRT MSII and the Micro was. On my Micro it's as if I was only hearing the DAC.
  When I get the ODAC, both of the amps now sound much, much closer in sound. Guess it's all about synergy or something. Maybe the E9 really isn't as transparent or as revealing of what's connected to it? No idea..


----------



## adydula

When I listen with the 02 via the ODAC or my HRT MSii+ I hear nothing different at all that these ears of mine can dileneate..
   
  The only thing is the output of the HRT is a higher voltage than the ODAC...so its easy to think they are different if you
  dont match the levels.
   
  Alex


----------



## sling5s

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> You know what the ODAC sounds like to me? The old PS1 SCPH-1001! The one with RCA jacks.
> All my harsh and fatiguing tracks that were awful on my 5 other CD players are now quite listenable, just like on the ODAC.
> Maybe this idea people have about the 1001 being so good is really no lie. 1001 is perhaps warmer and not as detailed, but pretty close.
> I was listening to that with my Q701 and modded HD-600 and loved every minute of it. Now I just need to find out if there's a way to use a remote with an adapter of some sorts.
> ...


 
  I think I know what you mean but the PS1 SCPH-1001 is much more vinyl tube sounding, it's got this weird tube like holographic 3D quality that is very unique and addictive.  It's also very midcentric and slightly grainy. The ODAC has much more smoother and fuller and has much more bass.  I think they are similar in that they are both soft or recessed in the treble.  Having said that, I don't know if it's the ODAC or the O2 because mine is a O2+ODAC combo.
  So you maybe right for all I know.


----------



## adydula

I was sent MicroTik 5VUSB Power Injector and the 5V 2A Power Supply terminated with a 1.3 x 3.5mm barrel connector





 from silchomd.
   
  I checked out the wiring from the USB connector that inserts into a pc to the other end of the cable where the ODAC cable would be attached,
   
  All 4 wires are straight wired thru, Ground, Vcc, and D- and D+.
   
  The power jack has the correct polarity and allows the 5v 2a supply to connect and make a secure connection. When plugged in the DC will ride along with the DC USB power from the PC. This I do not like.
   
  That said I did test it and it did work. The ODAC was powered up, music played from the O2 and there were no observed negative issues with sound or any PC USB error messages or enumeration.
   
  I would prefer a solution that would isolate the power supply from the PC supply, its not a good idea to hook up multiple power supplies to a circuit unless precautions are taken.
   
  A powered USB hub that is isolated would be a better solution to me.
   
  All that said, I cut up a few USB cables to insert an ammeter and a voltmeter to actually see what the ODAC is drawing for current and any effect on the PC USB 5 volts.
   
  Well, the max current I measured was 50.5 milliamps, connected to the O2 Amp and not connected to the amp. The current draw did not change at all with volume changes on the amp.
   
  The voltage was 5.03 vdc before the ODAC was powered and 5.03 with the ODAC powered.
   
  The PC was an older gateway desktop tower with a USB 2.0 port.
   
  The USB power was not even phased with this minmal load.
   
  100 ma is the unit spec for a single USB port for 2.0.
   
  So I am very doubful that any PC out there could not provide the power for an ODAC.
   
  If your having an issue with a dac, an odac I would look elsewhere for issues....like settings in the Operating System, device drivers, pre-buffering settings etc.
   
  The truth is in the pudding!!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> 4chan have we?


 
  mah boy, what is this 4chan you speak of?


----------



## LoveKnight

Thanks very much for all of your measurements of ODAC, adydula. I am not good at English but I read your post and guess that ODACs do not have any problems of power management or power lacking. Now I am happy to purchase an ODAC. Thanks again!


----------



## zilch0md

Alex,
   
  Yes - thank you for taking the time to test the external power supply and MicroTik "power injector."  It is strange that they didn't isolate the "injected" power from the USB port's power, but going on your measurements, it seems that the ODAC would have no problem getting the power it needs from the vast majority of USB ports - in that it draws only 50 mA.
   
  Mike


----------



## sulla138

Thanks for the info about the power injector. I was interested in it as a solution for the iPad CCK setup. I wonder if there is any downside to using it with an iPad.


----------



## sulla138

I have been using the ODAC/ O2 with a USB powered hub I had laying around. It works great it is just messy. I don't know if the hub is isolated.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi sulla138,
  Quote: 





sulla138 said:


> I have been using the ODAC/ O2 with a* USB powered* hub I had laying around. It works great it is just messy. I don't know if the hub is isolated.


 
   
  When you say your hub is "USB powered," are you saying that it_ *does not*_ have an AC adapter that plugs into a wall outlet?  
   
  If it* does not* have an AC adapter, then your ODAC is using the same power that it would be using if you plugged it directly into the port that the hub is using.
   
  If it _*does*_ have an AC adapter, then your hub is not "USB powered" - and would indeed be isolated from the power that comes from your laptop or PC.
   
  Alex found that the MicroTik 5VUSB Power Injector does not isolate the USB port power coming from the AC adapter power - it mixes them together in a parallel circuit, like putting two 5V batteries side by side, instead of end to end, to still give you 5V, but they are wired together.  This is extraordinary, as you would normally not want to blend the power from two sources, that way.   MicroTik should have designed their Power Injector to take the power exclusively from the AC adapter (using the USB port exclusively for data).   But it seems to work, nevertheless, and MicroTik sells it for use with their routers.
   
  Mike


----------



## adydula

If the hub has an ac adapter it probably is isolated from the pc, but I always have my doubts...if you use a non-powered hub then the hub is pulling current from the PC...this I would avoid.
   
  The only way to tell is look at a schematic....good luck there.
   
  The other way is to pull the Vcc from the PC cable to the powered hub and see if the device attached to the powered hub works.
   
  This is not easy to do. You have to cut into a cable etc and it gets messy....
   
  One thing I forgot to say it that if you have a lot of USB devices already attached to the same USB hub or buss in the PC and are close to the 500ma USB spec...and then yo plug in the ODAC and your over the limit...things can go funny.
   
  Depending on how the USB power source in the PC is designed...
   
  Also I cant stress enough to check the PC OS settings and the player settings...
   
  I have seen issues from PC to PC with differrent dac implementations....an asynch dac that works fine on one pc and not so fine on another that had to have settings changed in the media player (not the windows player in this case)...
   
  Working with the manufacturer of one of these dacs, USB power came up and one of their possible solutions was to use a powered USB hub if the specific setting in the music player didnt solve the issue...
   
  My issue was with intermittent pops and tics while playing any song in any format.
   
  Also if being an audio 'nut' like i am...and striving for bit-perfect sound....I would only have my dac connected to a USB with nothing else on the hub. No way, no how....
   
  The current testing I did was with ONLY the ODAC attached to a PC USB 2.0 port.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## zilch0md

Alex,
   
  Now, I'm thinking it would be better just to get a tiny powered hub, like this (despite my having wanted to avoid something this bulky):
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000SAB34O
   
   

   
  It offers three more ports than we need and it's larger than the MicroTik power injector, but there's a chance it would keep the AC adapter power isolated from the laptop's USB power.  Still, we can't make that assumption, as you say - it would have to be tested.
   
  Thanks again for all of your advice - I like the idea of not using any other devices on the PC's usb bus while listening to music.
   
  Mike


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





adydula said:


> One thing I forgot to say it that if you have a lot of USB devices already attached to the same USB hub or buss in the PC and are close to the 500ma USB spec...and then yo plug in the ODAC and your over the limit...things can go funny.
> 
> Depending on how the USB power source in the PC is designed...
> 
> Also I cant stress enough to check the PC OS settings and the player settings...


 
   
  Now that is interesting.  I know all my USB ports are employed  so that may be an issue to check out.
   
  I know myself an purrin both used WASAPI via JRiver for our tests.


----------



## adydula

The USB buss was not intended to power the world up!!
   
  It has its limits and they are indeed published.
   
  Some USB options designers know this and include walwarts when needed due to the limitations of the spec.
   
  I see folks trying to power up portable electric heaters to keep them warm in the winter....."aint going to work!"
   
  Alex


----------



## sling5s

This just can't be my imagination but the USB cable that comes with the O2+ODAC has a ferrite and I believe the ferrite filters the high frequencies. 
  When I changed the USB (ferrite-less) cable, the high frequency came back.  At least to my ears.  
  The treble is much better, not recessed as before and the bass has more snap, punch, do to the restoration of the treble balance.
   
  Is it just me?


----------



## sulla138

USB cables only carry zeros and ones no high frequencies for the ferrite to filter out. The high frequencies are on the other side of the odac. So I guess the difference you heard must be for some other reason.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The USB buss was not intended to power the world up!!
> 
> It has its limits and they are indeed published.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're joking right.  Using all the usb ports on a motherboard or a single underpowered one on a laptop is akin to plugging in a portable electric heater?  So the ODAC is the portable heater in your example then?  Do you know what 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




even means?
  Quote: 





sulla138 said:


> USB cables only carry zeros and ones no high frequencies for the ferrite to filter out.


 
   
  No, USB cables carry no 'ones' or 'zeros'.  They carry the same electrons every other cable carries.


----------



## MarioImpemba

Is the ODAC's line-out fit for hooking to a receiver?


----------



## adydula

Anaxilus ..
   
  I am beginning to think you have no sense of humor at all and are taking this all too serious....this USB horse has been beat to death but I guess it will get beaten some
  more so we can indeed make sure its dead...
   
  Anyone see any specials on USB space heaters...heard its going to be a long winter...
   





   
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Sitting here listening to a new set of cans and Eva Cassidy with the O2 and integrated ODAC with a 20 Ft cable no ferrite beads...one word:
   
  Exquisite!
   
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Sulla38..
   
  Anaxilus is correct the usb cable carries bits, ones and zeros...but what he neglects to tell you is that there may be more than that being induced or carried over those tiny little 24 ga copper wires......
   
  Do you know what a lo-pass filter is?
   
  Alex


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Anaxilus ..
> 
> I am beginning to think you have no sense of humor at all


 
   
  I'll just hang out waiting for the punchline.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Anaxilus is correct the usb cable carries bits, ones and zeros...


 
   
  Okay, I really am missing the joke since you are now misquoting me.  I think you have us mixed up or something, nvm.


----------



## adydula

Anaxilus,
   
  I stand corrected I did misquote you ...
   
  You did say that usb cables do not carry ones and zeros only electrons...my bad.
   
  These electrons you refer to form or are in the form of digital pulses that are referred to as ones and zeros...that flow into the dac to go along on their merry way to their conversion....
   
  Your a pretty literal person.
   
  Thats fine....glad we can still communicate....after all we both like audio...
   
  All the best
   
  Alex


----------



## zilch0md

There sure is a whole lot of spanking going on in this thread!   LOL


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> This just can't be my imagination but the USB cable that comes with the O2+ODAC has a ferrite and I believe the ferrite filters the high frequencies.
> When I changed the USB (ferrite-less) cable, the high frequency came back.  At least to my ears.
> The treble is much better, not recessed as before and the bass has more snap, punch, do to the restoration of the treble balance.
> 
> Is it just me?


 
  It's exactly the same to my ears.


----------



## adydula

Yup it Friday for sure!!
   
  Its the same for me as well.....the reasons for a ferrite cable...is to act as a low pass filter....reject any induced, stray or HF RF etc....and any nasty crap that might come from the PC itself.
  In the case of USB its mainly for the latter...
   
  The USB cable I have torn apart, even the el cheopo's fro monoprice had excellent foil shielding and additional weaved braid....
   
  There really should be any differnce at all.
   
  Alex


----------



## gattari

Quote: 





timmyw said:


> It's exactly the same to my ears.


 

 I like more ferrite cable with odac (ephifany) in my setup.
  World is various )


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





sulla138 said:


> USB cables only carry zeros and ones no high frequencies for the ferrite to filter out. The high frequencies are on the other side of the odac. So I guess the difference you heard must be for some other reason.


 
   
  This has already passed, but just so we're clear...
   
  Where's the power to run the electronics in the ODAC come from?  A ferrite would be to filter some of the high-frequency noise (meaning like RF, not high audio frequencies) riding on top of the +5V going to the device.  The +5V gets filtered and converted to +3.3V (maybe something else too?) in the device.  There are ferrites on the board already, but a larger one in the cable is not going to be a bad thing.
   
  So there is something to filter.  Now, whether cleaning up the power supply slightly more would make the kind of differences people are reporting... that seems like a big stretch.


----------



## Slycks

Sorry to interrupt the USB discussion, but has anyone managed to get the ODAC working with WinXP and ASIO or Kernel Streaming in Foobar?  I've followed all the guides (ASIO foobar plugin, ASIO4ALL settings to map left and right of USB ODAC etc.) but am having no luck.
   
  1) With kernel streaming, I have to set the buffer length to something like 200ms or less in order to get playback.  Unfortunately, I cannot use the seekbar in Foobar to skip to a certain part of a track.  If I try to, it just stops at the time I've jumped to with no sound.  Anyone know how to fix this?
   
  2) With ASIO, I have the ODAC all setup and mapped the left and right and in offline settings set the odac to active, 4 buffers, etc., but when I try to play a track it just stays at 0:00, no error message in Foobar or anything.  Played with the buffer length but this didn't help at all.  When I check the Offline settings I'm told the device is not available even though I have it set to active.  Help?


----------



## adydula

The only reason the ferrite cable is there in this case is really to help filter out and crap that might be coming from inside the PC for all the stuff going on in a pc...whether it is induced into the USB Vcc lines or in any other way...if this crap gets into the usb power or even signal lines the ferrite will help stop it from getting to the dac....and yup the ODAC has this internally as well....
   
  What is interesting to me back in school in electronics class was to learn that this is done by turning the unwanted RF into heat in the ferrite material.....at the levels we are dealing here you would never notice this....but in other apps they can get warm and even hot!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Slycks.
   
  I dont use Foobar or XP anymore....its not that it cant be done its too much of a pain...
   
  If you can afford it get over to win7, things here are better for audio...
   
  I am sure there are other sites and maybe if you search this site or maybe Foobar's you will find your answer.
   
  After mucking with several players including Foobar, Music Bee , JRiver ....and some others...
   
  I settled in on JRiver and to get things to work and be bitperfect is rather painless with Win 7.
   
  Good Luck!
  Alex


----------



## MarioImpemba

Quote: 





marioimpemba said:


> Is the ODAC's line-out fit for hooking to a receiver?


 
   
  Help please


----------



## .Sup

marioimpemba said:


> Help please



Why not? Its an amplifier.


----------



## Alec246

Just got my ODAC unit here! Really nice sounding unit so far! 

So, are you all using the recommended 24bit/96 in Win7?


----------



## adydula

24 bits/ 44.1 khz
   
  and congrats on your ODAC!
   
  Alex


----------



## Alec246

Thanks! Very happy with the JDSLabs cMoy BB v2.03 + ODAC + HD558! Great sound! 

I'm using WASAPI in foobar, so I guess the setting inside Win7 Audio Manager doesn't matter


----------



## headwig

As I understand it, you should use the highest bit depth and sampling frequency that is used by any source data file or stream. Choosing the setting that matches your highest-resolution source data will get you the best sound the source can produce. Going higher just wastes processing power and memory without making the music sound any better. So, for example, if you never listen to sources that are better than 16/44.1 then you should probably set that in your Windows audio settings.
   
  If you think you might play some 24/96 sources you can set Windows to these high settings if you're not worried about CPU and RAM usage when playing lower-resolution sources. But it won't make your lower-resolution sources sound better.
   
  That's how I understand it anyway. If I am wrong then please someone explain why!


----------



## Slycks

Unfortunately Win 7 isn't an option on this pc, it's a little too old for that.  I do have my laptop/Win 7 set up properly without a hitch, it's just the XP desktop that is giving me the mentioned problems with KS and ASIO.  Was really hoping someone here could chime in.
   
  Also, given that the ODAC is transparent, I never realized how bass biased some of my gear is, especially my CD transport.  Had the laptop/ODAC and CDP hooked up to the stereo, both playing the same recording and the ODAC was noticeably lacking in bass / punch in comparison.  Or maybe something's wrong with my ODAC?
   
  Quote: 





slycks said:


> Sorry to interrupt the USB discussion, but has anyone managed to get the ODAC working with WinXP and ASIO or Kernel Streaming in Foobar?  I've followed all the guides (ASIO foobar plugin, ASIO4ALL settings to map left and right of USB ODAC etc.) but am having no luck.
> 
> 1) With kernel streaming, I have to set the buffer length to something like 200ms or less in order to get playback.  Unfortunately, I cannot use the seekbar in Foobar to skip to a certain part of a track.  If I try to, it just stops at the time I've jumped to with no sound.  Anyone know how to fix this?
> 
> 2) With ASIO, I have the ODAC all setup and mapped the left and right and in offline settings set the odac to active, 4 buffers, etc., but when I try to play a track it just stays at 0:00, no error message in Foobar or anything.  Played with the buffer length but this didn't help at all.  When I check the Offline settings I'm told the device is not available even though I have it set to active.  Help?


 
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Slycks.
> 
> I dont use Foobar or XP anymore....its not that it cant be done its too much of a pain...
> 
> ...


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





marioimpemba said:


> Help please


 
  yes, of course it will work.


----------



## adydula

The majority of the source CD redbook is 16bit, 44.1 khz.
   
  Yes there is higher bit rate stuff you can buy/download etc....great debates whether its any better that standard redbook.
   
  The reason I have this set to 16/24 is beacuse I dont want any 'potential' upsampling of the 44.1khz stuff.
   
  I dont want the dac or the player or the OS to much with the source unless I want to do that.
   
  Upsampling to me just crap.
   
  I do have some HD stuff and have gone back and forth with my own lisening tests and hear nothing that my ears can detect that is worthy of more of my bucks...
   
  Others will disagree for sure.
   
  After talking with the HRT engineering folks we agreed that the 16 bit, 44.1 setting for their dac is fine for most everything...
   
  When I use Win 7 WSAPI-Event mode in the JRiver player I have the DSP etc set to allow what the source is to flow and do nothing to upsample or add or detract from the bits.
   
  The lights on the HRT, no lights or indicators on the ODAC change from 44 to 96 etc ....regardless of the WIN 7 playback advanced settings.
   
  With the ODAC if I want to play 24/96 etc I do change the WIN 7 playback settings from 16/44 to 24/96 etc...but after much playing with this I can not really tell any difference etc...
   
  Again with the majority of CD material at 16/44 is the reason why I have this as such.
   
  In the Jriver player I do display the bit depth of the song and if I see that its 20 bit or 24 bit depths I can change the win 7 settings if desired....
   
  In your dac settings you will see exclusive mode settings....you want this to be on to allow for the applications like Jriver to take control of the device and allow for bit perfect results....
   
  or to allow for the source to pass thru unsample or mucked with .....
   
  Play with it yourself and let us know what you hear..
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Here is one "experts" comment to me after asking the same type of question:
   
  "No USB DAC can control the sample rate, that is the job of the media player and OS. Leaving the OS set to 24 bit depth is a good idea but setting the sample rate to a fixed value that is different from the source material isn't the best approach. Since you indicate that the bulk of your material is 44k1 sample rate, the I would recommend that you use 44k1/24b for your setup."
  
  So if the bulk of your stuff is 16/44...and you dont use WSAPI and the exclusive settings correctly...all your lowly 16/44 stuff could ger upsampled to higher rates...and this is not necessarily good.
   
  Alex


----------



## zilch0md

That's great advice in your last couple of posts, Alex.
   
  When I play 44.1 kHz files, I select *24 bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) *in the *Default Format* setting of the Windows 7 Speaker Properties (for my USB DAC), as shown here:
   
   

   
  When I play 96 kHz files, I select *24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality)*.
   
  I'm with you on not upsampling.  You can't add detail that's not there to begin with.  You only take the risk of blurring what's there by messing with it. 
   
  I borrowed an April Music Stello for about 30 days, during the summer of 2011.  The Stello has a toggle switch on the front panel labeled *UPSAMPLE* with two positions labeled *192* and *Byp* (for "Bypass").  
   
   

   
   
  I found that the Bypass position_* always*_ sounded better (with my equipment, my ears) than when upsampling to 192kHz.  The DA100's owner agrees (with his equipment, his ears).  So far as I could tell, upsampling to 192kHz only added a slight sheen to the highs. It certainly didn't improve audible detail.  I was using a 15V Stepdance -> LCD-2 rev.1 at the time, and my the owner was using a Schiit Lyr -> HE500.
   
  Mike


----------



## sulla138

Old pc. Are you sure you have a 2.0 USB port? Is there enough bandwidth on USB 1.0?


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> I borrowed an April Music Stello for about 30 days, during the summer of 2011.  The Stello has a toggle switch on the front panel labeled *UPSAMPLE* with two positions labeled *192* and *Byp* (for "Bypass").
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the Stello and I also always use the Bypass. I feel that it has far better and natural bass extension and taller 3D soundstage. The upsampling switch seems to roll off the low bass, bring forward the mids a little bit and widen the soundstage but flatten it as well.


----------



## tdockweiler

I tested out the Ferrite Core USB cable vs one without tonight. Think it'd be virtually impossible for there to be any difference in audio quality, but it's really amusing to test.
  I did one of those USB non-sense tests last year and couldn't detect an ounce of difference. I know about the whole 1s and 0s thing, but some really do claim there is a difference. I just haven't heard it
  The ones that supposedly sound different use silver. Maybe the only difference is due to length.
   
  If there actually IS any difference then you'd have to have some seriously golden ears to hear it. My brain was telling me I was hearing a slightly improved soundstage and a smoother sound. In the Mishima soundtrack there's this track where I feel as if I'm hearing sounds from behind me to the far right. With the ferrite core version I felt it was less distant. My brain and ears seriously kept telling me the non ferrite one is what I should stick with and that's what I'm doing.
   
  I was actually using two 1.5 foot Monoprice cables with ferrite core. Now i'm just using two regular ones.
   
  UPDATE:
   
  I just switched to my DJ100 closed headphones. The difference is even greater. Go figure...
  When I was listening to some Black Keys sound the bass felt slightly bloated. Not like the usual DJ100, which is never bloated.
  A good example is on the Buena Vista Social Club. On the song "Chan Chan", the bass seems a tad more bloated than it should. Sounds a tad muffled due to this and the soundstage seems compressed compared to how it should be.
  When switching to the non ferrite cable the song clears up and the soundstage is back to how it should be.
   
  Next try this song (Osamu's Theme from Mishima Soundtrack by Philip Glass):
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn3mh-V1SAw
   
  On my FLAC version it's nearly impossible to pinpoint all the instruments with the ferrite cable. Soundstage seems too small and everything shoved so close together. Why? That's not how it should sound.
  The sound coming from the right is very distant sounding, just like how it should be. On the ferrite one it's sounds much closer.
   
  I guess it's all in my head right? But this is bizarre. Maybe the only difference is that the other one is just higher quality. I tried another non-ferrite and it still sounds better than the Monoprice one.
   
  The ferrite one makes some music sound fuller than it should be (this is hard to detect on the Q701 compared to the DJ100). Probably due to the impression of very slightly extra bass.
   
  Someone should test this more and tell me i'm not nuts. Could be hearing things. When listening to "chan chan" the difference isn't exactly subtle. Within two seconds you hear something is "off".
   
  It seems closed headphones are better for detecting equipment issues. The DJ100 and ODAC has fixed two issues so far for me. On open headphones it's too hard to tell any difference. Wish I could explain that one...
   
  Feel free to proclaim i'm hearing things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yep, I know it's all the 1s and 0s and everything, but this is just weird. Maybe Monoprice cables are cheap for a reason 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If you think i'm hearing these things, please test this first. You must get tracks that have a good soundstage in the recording. Then you can also test with bass heavy songs and with a closed headphone that's fairly revealing. 
   
  Here's another good track for testing. Probably best to get the FLAC version:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnFfKbxIHD0
   
  BTW does anyone remember how I was saying this ODAC made my garbage tracks less fatiguing in the treble than they should be? This doesn't fix it or anything. Not that I could tell so far.


----------



## Slycks

Alright, so I'm an idiot.  I figured out why I couldn't get ASIO4ALL working in XP, it was because in the Offline Settings, I forgot to disable the In for the ODAC.  Make sure only Out is selected!  Just an FYI for those who might be having problems as well.
   
  I'm having another issue.  I'm using the ODAC with the O2 amp and there are times when the volume will suddenly be unusually low (seems it happens when I plug/unplug the AC charger though I'm not sure) and I have to turn the O2 volume knob way higher than usual.  Then after I switch off the O2 awhile it'll just randomly return to normal.  Is this a low battery issue?  I was under the impression that when batteries ran low the unit would simply shut off?


----------



## adydula

Slycks...
   
  Did you build it or is it a assembled one from JDS Labs?
   
  Alex


----------



## Slycks

Hi Alex, it is a JDS Labs unit.  Is the described behavior normal?


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





slycks said:


> Hi Alex, it is a JDS Labs unit.  Is the described behavior normal?


 
   
  Every O2 is tested for proper MOSFET behavior, but that's certainly abnormal. Contact us if you need help!


----------



## RZZZA

Just got my ODAC with RCA outputs from JDS Labs. Very impressed by the construction and sound so far (clean and clear by all accounts), with no problems from my laptop's USB outputs (2.0 or 3.0).
   
  Right now I have been using just a PA2V2 amp into my modded T50RP's, but am looking to scale up to a desktop amp with preamp functionality. Does anyone know the status the preamp capabilities of the ODA that will be released?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





rzzza said:


> Just got my ODAC with RCA outputs from JDS Labs. Very impressed by the construction and sound so far (clean and clear by all accounts), with no problems from my laptop's USB outputs (2.0 or 3.0).
> 
> Right now I have been using just a PA2V2 amp into my modded T50RP's, but am looking to scale up to a desktop amp with preamp functionality. Does anyone know the status the preamp capabilities of the ODA that will be released?


 
   
  Seems like it will likely have a preamp, but I don't think it's been designed yet.  Go bug the guy about it, and maybe it will be more likely to show up.  I think he's on hiatus at the moment though.


----------



## RZZZA

Cool, I'll probably try to give him a message. I was sort of wondering what was up with him given the last update on his blog about anything was May. Hopefully he's back on the grid soon with some new info,


----------



## Rithrin

Hope somebody didn't shoot him... Or hunt him down..


----------



## BleaK

Most likely, he did cause quite a stir with his blog.


----------



## 129207

Quote: 





bleak said:


> Most likely, he did cause quite a stir with his blog.


 
   
  I guess he gave up on us! We're a lost cause anyway.


----------



## adydula

Slycks....
   
  This doesnt sound like normal behavior. John from JDS Labs has replied.
  Johns a great guy...give him a call.
   
  Alex


----------



## adydula

I have posted a few comments on his blog in July and he responded as well in the DIY forum.
  I wished he would come back into a more active role.
   
  Here's hoping!!
  Alex


----------



## DanBa

Android-powered smartphone Samsung Galaxy S3 & ODAC:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/315#post_8707637
   
  stock Galaxy S3 >> ODAC >> Neco SoundLab V3 amp


----------



## imackler

I've been enjoying the ODAC a ton. It's my first external dac. But are there any comparable DACs that have the same amount of resolution but are maybe a little less bright? Perhaps its that I'm pairing it with the O2/HD600, but there are times it can all get a little too much for me and I'm not really treble sensitive. I've had the O2 and HD600 with my Ipod classic and not noticed this as much... If that hadn't been the case, I'd consider I need a warmer amp, but I've been happy with the O2 in the past.


----------



## LoveKnight

Look at this picture really makes me want to buy parts of ODACs and DIY to save some money.

   
  What do I need to order from jdslabs? Look like I will have to order these two things.
  First is the board of an ODAC  then second is this  (a 3.5mm jack for the line output). However I do not understand this line from JDSlabs which is "*Solder SMT jumpers J1 and J2 on bottom side of the ODAC. The exposed pads of each SMT jumper should be completely covered to form a single solder joint*".
   
  I have an empty metal case of Fiio E10 and I think ODAC can fit that box.
   
  Thanks for reading my problems.


----------



## adydula

LoveKnight,
   
  Yup....order the board and the 3.5mm jack...solder to the board and bridge the items you mention...if not you will get no sound from the jack....
   
  I dont have a picture to show you handy...when you look at the bottom side of the ODAC you will see under the mini jack area some gold lands that are not connected....
   
  They are marked and easy to use a hot iron and flow solder across the small gap...so the DAC output will go to the Jack. Its really easy to do.
   
  You have a case...if it fits and you can make the hole for the cables your all set...
   
  Enjoy..
   
  Alex


----------



## LoveKnight

Ok. After reading a lot of information on the internet and use my dictionary to translate some words now I know what I need to DIY. Thanks!


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I've been enjoying the ODAC a ton. It's my first external dac. But are there any comparable DACs that have the same amount of resolution but are maybe a little less bright? Perhaps its that I'm pairing it with the O2/HD600, but there are times it can all get a little too much for me and I'm not really treble sensitive. I've had the O2 and HD600 with my Ipod classic and not noticed this as much... If that hadn't been the case, I'd consider I need a warmer amp, but I've been happy with the O2 in the past.


 
  dude, why not use an EQ instead of using your dac or amp as an EQ?

 what media player do you use?


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, I need some help here with my odac. I've had mine for about two months or so and it's performed absolutely flawlessly. I've had it plugged into a usb header direct to the mobo. 
   
  Today I needed that header to test with another pc. After I finished I put it back and plugged the odac back in. Fired up the music but now there is a crackle in the upper mid range. Switched over the e17 and there is no crackle. I switched the odac usb cable to another port straight off the mobo and the crackle is back.
   
  HELP!!


----------



## MattTCG

Anyone?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Anyone?


 
  try some different songs
  restart your media player
  maybe try a different media player and disable any dsp
  try restarting your computer
  try a different cable
  try a different usb port
  try a different computer..
   
  In about that order. Report back


----------



## MattTCG

Tried all of the above except odac on a different pc. Will do that next...thanks.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Tried all of the above except odac on a different pc. Will do that next...thanks.


 
  I had a similar problem with foobar. What are you using?


----------



## jono454

Was thinking of hooking up a ODAC to the Audioengine A2 speakers. Does anyone have any experience with these kind of setups?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I had a similar problem with foobar. What are you using?


 
   
  Foobar+waspi. Does the same thing with DS in foobar also if that's what you're thinking.


----------



## gattari

Well, I put sennheiser hd 800 directly on the ephifany edac.
I see the paradise.
Yes, in my s3 with neutron player I had to down the volune of 7-8 db, this, in teory, not very good, but I am very surprised about the super fantastic quality of sound out of my S3 with syhas kernel.
I am not crazy, please try this with high impedence headphone and share your experience. 
Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Foobar+waspi. Does the same thing with DS in foobar also if that's what you're thinking.


 
  In the preferences, make sure you have the playback options you want: wasapi push for odac and 24bit output data form. That solved my similar problems.


----------



## MattTCG

The problem seems to be resolved. I uninstalled everything related to odac on the pc, rebooted, plugged the odac back in and it work fine.
   
  thanks...


----------



## adydula

magic.....dont u love pc's!!!
   
  A.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Was thinking of hooking up a ODAC to the Audioengine A2 speakers. Does anyone have any experience with these kind of setups?


 
  should work just fine


----------



## .Sup

gattari said:


> Well, I put sennheiser hd 800 directly on the ephifany edac.
> I see the paradise.
> Yes, in my s3 with neutron player I had to down the volune of 7-8 db, this, in teory, not very good, but I am very surprised about the super fantastic quality of sound out of my S3 with syhas kernel.
> I am not crazy, please try this with high impedence headphone and share your experience.
> Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2



Seriously? And no amplifier in between?


----------



## gattari

[quote name=".Sup" 
Seriously? And no amplifier in between?[/quote]
Yes seriusly.
I bypassed my jds o2 amp. 


Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





gattari said:


> [quote name=".Sup"
> Seriously? And no amplifier in between?


 Yes seriusly.
 I bypassed my jds o2 amp.
 Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2[/quote]

   
  Mystical!


----------



## gattari

Now I am searching for volume attenuator or my be passive pre. 

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 con Tapatalk 2


----------



## Anaxilus

One man's hell is another man's heaven.


----------



## livewire

ODAC has been my heaven. Great DAC, even if it's cheap.
  Did have to reset the software once when it locked up. No biggie.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> One man's hell is another man's heaven.


 
   
  This is quite true...and somewhat funny.


----------



## ClieOS

In such case, it will be a 500ohm output inferno of no dampening hell, or colored heaven with 500ohm output angels


----------



## mamba315

Just got my ODAC.  This thing is tiny!


----------



## zilch0md

I don't have a picture of them all together but comparing these two photos, you can see how far things have come in just the past couple of years...
   
   
    
   
       
   
  Mike


----------



## ClieOS

Good to see JDS is making the case shorter (and smaller), though I like the longer case just fine, since I always place my C421 on it


----------



## willmax

I hope Mr. V releases the ODA soon so that I can pair it with my ODAC


----------



## brown5629

Aerohoff is offering these cool ODAC cases:
   
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/220114-cases-odac-bamboo-acrylic.html


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





brown5629 said:


> Aerohoff is offering these cool ODAC cases:
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/220114-cases-odac-bamboo-acrylic.html


 
  those... those are pretty darn cool. I wonder if going acrylic will make the odac more susceptible to RF interference?

 I also wonder if there are any plans for a similar O2 Case, that would be sweet.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> those... those are pretty darn cool. I wonder if going acrylic will make the odac more susceptible to RF interference?
> 
> I also wonder if there are any plans for a similar O2 Case, that would be sweet.


 
   
  Dunno about the interference. But USB hubs, gigabit switches, Wi-Fi devices, etc. often come in "plastic" cases. Do they use material with better RFI and EMI rejection(?) or does it affect them too?
   
  I like the acrylic case. It looks like that's a bolt-on accessory suitable for the non-electronically inclined!


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





willmax said:


> I hope Mr. V releases the ODA soon so that I can pair it with my ODAC


 
   
  If pairing your ODAC with a new ODA doesn't work as intended, I'll take the useless ODAC off your hands. As a favor between buds, you know.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Dunno about the interference. But USB hubs, gigabit switches, Wi-Fi devices, etc. often come in "plastic" cases. Do they use material with better RFI and EMI rejection(?) or does it affect them too?
> 
> I like the acrylic case. It looks like that's a bolt-on accessory suitable for the non-electronically inclined!


 
   
  Oh it affects them too, if it matters to you.  If I put my amp next to my DSL/router I can hear it (clicking) through my headphones even though WiFi is disabled.


----------



## doktorsteve

MY ODAC SOUNDED SCREECHY!!!!!
   
  Had an ODAC and O2 for a couple of weeks and I could hear something was not right. My Sony MDR CD570 headphones sounded really edgy and shrill. I had just changed the pads to Beyer DT770s and I thought the problem lay there. I was even looking at buying new headphones. The sound just seemed to be all boom and tizz. Now I know I have some tinnitus which makes anything above 4kHz sound really grainy so I tried to equalise out the peaks in the top end but nothing seemed to make phones sound as smooth as I knew they can be.
  I checked the phones on a modded UCA222 and on my CD players. They did not sound so bad so I looked again at the ODAC. I also thought that the ODAC sounded slightly different on my netbook than it did on my PC. Since people had found that the ferrite round the cable improved matters I just wondered if the ferrite on my cable was not up to the job. I found a couple of clamp on ferrite rings and clamped them on the USB cable. The first ring, about the same size as the one on the cable,  improved matters a bit. I could hear the  shrillness was reduced even as I closed the clamp. I then tried a larger ring in which I could wrap the cable round 1 turn. This made a much bigger improvement. All the shrillness was gone leaving just beautiful detail. As far as I know adding extra ferrites cannot damage the signal because they only remove common mode noise - they leave differential mode signals untouched.
   
  If you are lucky your USB source is clean or the ferrite is good enough to filter out what noise you have.  If you are unlucky like me the ODAC sounds awfull. If you are in the middle you may just not be getting the best possible sound. You just don't know.
   
  So my advice is "ADD MORE FERRITE ROUND THE USB CABLE".
  Then come back and tell me what you hear.


----------



## adydula

Have you tried to move the ODAC and source to a different area to see if your indeed getting any external "interference"?
   
  or a different USB port or USB hub or different PC?
   
  Also what gain setting are u using on the source?
   
  Alex


----------



## doktorsteve

I'm not convinced that the interference is airborne. I cannot believe that you can get 5V out of a box with 2.7GHZ processor and all its subclocks without some noise leaking out into the cables.
   
  The gain is the stock low setting.
   The extra ferrite just seems to take the edginess off some vocals and the fake ambiance off some guitars. Also there is more space between instruments. Maybe its a jitter problem caused by the HF noise on the USB.
   
  Anyway the main thing is that I am actually enjoying the sound now.


----------



## doktorsteve

Sorry I thought you meant the gain setting on the O2. The output of Foobar 2000 is full with 24 bit word length.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





doktorsteve said:


> MY ODAC SOUNDED SCREECHY!!!!!
> 
> Had an ODAC and O2 for a couple of weeks and I could hear something was not right. My Sony MDR CD570 headphones sounded really edgy and shrill. I had just changed the pads to Beyer DT770s and I thought the problem lay there. I was even looking at buying new headphones. The sound just seemed to be all boom and tizz. Now I know I have some tinnitus which makes anything above 4kHz sound really grainy so I tried to equalise out the peaks in the top end but nothing seemed to make phones sound as smooth as I knew they can be.
> I checked the phones on a modded UCA222 and on my CD players. They did not sound so bad so I looked again at the ODAC. I also thought that the ODAC sounded slightly different on my netbook than it did on my PC. Since people had found that the ferrite round the cable improved matters I just wondered if the ferrite on my cable was not up to the job. I found a couple of clamp on ferrite rings and clamped them on the USB cable. The first ring, about the same size as the one on the cable,  improved matters a bit. I could hear the  shrillness was reduced even as I closed the clamp. I then tried a larger ring in which I could wrap the cable round 1 turn. This made a much bigger improvement. All the shrillness was gone leaving just beautiful detail. As far as I know adding extra ferrites cannot damage the signal because they only remove common mode noise - they leave differential mode signals untouched.
> ...


 
   
  I had a similar problem and I had to use a USB hub to correct it. Non-ferrite seems better to my ears, but it's all my head perhaps. Probably impossible!
  The ODAC is supposedly easy to power, but even my desktop USB ports are crap.


----------



## tdockweiler

Unrelated stupid question but...
   
  Does anyone find the Clip+ a tad warmer than the ODAC? I find they're both pretty flat sounding, but my KRK KNS-8400 sounds slightly fuller sounding on the Clip+. Could be something fooling me.
  I never realized that the Clip+ might be kind of warm until I tried the ODAC again today.
   
  BTW I'm loving the modded HD-600 with ODAC. I've discovered it's much better when you chop off it's upper/mid bass to neutral levels. Makes it sound crystal clear. Never have been a fan of the HD-600 until now.
  I even use it for movies now.
   
  Favorite headphones with the ODAC are the Q701 and DJ100. The KRK KNS-8400 almost sounds better with the Clip+.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Unrelated stupid question but...
> 
> Does anyone find the Clip+ a tad warmer than the ODAC? I find they're both pretty flat sounding, but my KRK KNS-8400 sounds slightly fuller sounding on the Clip+. Could be something fooling me.
> I never realized that the Clip+ might be kind of warm until I tried the ODAC again today.
> ...


 
  The clip is a little forgiving and a little colored, not much at all though. It's the best portable media player I have heard in comparison to the odac.


----------



## normanl

Quote: 





adydula said:


> This stuff is not as complicated as many of you think.
> 
> I use WIN 7 Pro 64 with JRiver. WASAPI-Event Mode is used. Its easy to setup for bitperfect playback from FLAC files.
> 
> ...


 
  I'd appreciate it much if you can tell me how to set "bitperfect icon" in J.River Media Center.


----------



## adydula

Hello,
   
  Well first here is what it looks like when you have it setup correctly for bitperfect playback....Notice the blue symbol.
  It lights up a nice bright blue color when your in this mode.
  Note: This light only lights up if your playing an audio file. It comes on immediately when you hit play and if all the settings are correct.
   
   

   
  When you click on it this window pops up. Notice whats in the window:
  Audio Path: Direct
  Changes: No Changes are Being Made
  Input and Ouput are matched, but in the Output you see that we are using WASAPI Event Style - direct connection.
   

   
   
  Click on DSP Studio:
  Make sure that the Sample Rate is No Change
  Bitdepth = Source Bitdepth
  Channels = Source number of channels
   

   
  If you click on Playback Options you will see this menu pop up where you can select the various Audio Outt settings. Choose WASAPI - Event Style.
   
  Then under the Output Mode Settings make sure that "Open Device for exclusive access" is selected.
   

   
  These are the settings in Jriver that need to be correct.
  Jriver will not muck with the buts...but make sure your WIN7 playback settings are correct as well...
   
  All the best
  Ale


----------



## normanl

Thank you very much for your detailed set-up instruction and now I have the correct set-up. However, I have quite a few 24-96 and 24-192 KHz Flac and APE files. Should I select 96kHz or 192KHz correspondingly in the " Output format of DSP Studio of J.River MediaCenter" as well as select 24-bit in the "Bitdepth" when I play those 96/192 files. Besides, do I also need select 24-96/ 24-192
  in the Windows playback devices ( Advanced tab of speaker properties)? 
  norman


----------



## adydula

normani,
   
  All you have to do is change the advanced playback settings for you DAC in Win7 OS.
   
  The settings in JRiver you dont have to touch....this allows whatever the source to be untouched by the player software.

 I assume your flacs are really HD audio rips or downloads and then Jriver will detect this or what they are and display this in the pop up window.
   
  Of course you dac etc needs to be able to handle these high sample rate and bit depths.
   
  You can still change the settings in JRiver to upsample or downsample, but this is something I just do not do.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## Sandman65

...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Any chance someone will come out with an ODAC with a S/PDIF input?


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Any chance someone will come out with an ODAC with a S/PDIF input?


 
   
  The USB interface chip is separate from the DAC chip itself, so yeah, I guess adding an S/PDIF interface should not be too difficult, but if the components are as closed (information wise) as they usually are, it can be troublesome to acquire those in the first place. 
  Getting a PCB made is, however a bigger challenge as you won't find DIP packages for most of these.


----------



## adydula

We are not supposed to post links to the person that has "birthed" the ODAC on this website....but you can find it and there is a response to why no S/PDIF in the current arrangement and design.
   
  But is not a total impossibility in a future ODA product.
   
  Alex


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





adydula said:


> We are not supposed to post links to the person that has "birthed" the ODAC on this website....but you can find it and there is a response to why no S/PDIF in the current arrangement and design.
> 
> But is not a total impossibility in a future ODA product.
> 
> Alex


 
   
  S/PDIF is highly unlikely for the ODA. I also wouldn't expect to see it on future ODACs, considering the hardware licensing agreements and its design exclusion as Alex has pointed out ^^


----------



## adydula

Hi John...
   
  Are you getting any feedback on possible ODA timeframe?
   
  I have no desire for S/PIDF and its worts.
   
  But there are many that want it, or think they need it etc....
   
  All the best
   
  Alex


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hi John...
> 
> Are you getting any feedback on possible ODA timeframe?
> 
> ...


 
   
  We've heard nothing...


----------



## CBF-

Have you been able to contact him at all? It seems like he completely dropped off the map since last month.


----------



## LoveKnight

I have seen this line on the website of JDSLabs .
   
*RCA Output* - RCA output jacks at rear, 3.5mm output and USB jack at front. Black endplates. 95mm case length. Note: The ODAC supports only 1 output; do not use 3.5mm and RCA jacks simultaneously.
   
So that means if I order a ODAC RCA output version then it also still has 3.5mm output, right? Thanks for reply.
   
  Okey, I understand you charge more money for ODAC RCA output. Thanks, anyway.


----------



## audionewbi

Anyone compared this against the audioquest dragon fly? Which one is a better DAC?


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Anyone compared this against the audioquest dragon fly? Which one is a better amp?


 
   
  The ODAC isn't an amplifier.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> The ODAC isn't an amplifier.


 
  should have said DAC, my bad.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> should have said DAC, my bad.


 
   
  I shoulda noticed that the dragonfly is a DAC.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> I shoulda noticed that the dragonfly is a DAC.


 
  End up buying the ODAC, I might buy the dragonfly later on. 

 BTW dragonfly is also an amp as well. If you set it at full volume I believer it acts as DAC alone (how no idea whether setting the volume at maximum ensures that double amping doesnt take place or what but that is what I have read).


----------



## adydula

If you search there are many opinions about the dragonfly and i think Jude did an article a few weeks back??? Thought I saw this in the main banner on the main site page?
   
  You will not be disappointed with the ODAC.
   
  I have 2 of them...sitting here listening with LCD2's with O2 and ODAC on an old desktop pc......absolutely transparent and amazing setup.
   
  Alex


----------



## zilch0md

I've compared both the ODAC and the Dragonfly to my CEntrance DACport LX.  
   
  Considering only the sound quality, ignoring size and convenience factors...
   
  if you already have an amp, the Dragonfly offers nothing over the ODAC, in my opinion - especially not for more than twice the price.  The ODAC and the Dragonfly sound very similar to me, overall, with the ODAC actually offering a bit more detail and transparency. 
   
  If you don't have an amp, keep in mind that the Dragonfly's amp cannot drive fullsize headphones with authority, even though it works well with IEMs.  Sure, it can be loud, but it can't deliver the dynamics and bass control of a portable headphone amp like those offered by Meier Audio.
   
  Mike


----------



## audionewbi

Thanks, I've ordered the ODAC, kind of curious how it performs against my desktop DAC.


----------



## audionewbi

Okay ODAC arrive, I am speechless!


----------



## LoveKnight

So how do you think about your ODAC. Is it good?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> So how do you think about your ODAC. Is it good?


 
  Very impressed. If you are into detail (in particular upper range) this dac can do wonders. 

 I am using ER4S, O2 and ODAC and I have not heard such clarity till now. But I seem to have an issue with the micro USB, it is loose. So my advice is buy it local just in case you have to send it for RMA. I am sending mine back but for what I heard a great unit ! 
   
  Edit:It was a problem with the USB cable, unit seems to be fine!


----------



## LoveKnight

Oh so the USB cable of your ODAC is not good. It is really the great advice to buy an ODAC at local shop if we can to test it to make sure it is fine. Thankfully there is a shop in my city selling ODAC but I need to save money first. Thanks for your replying.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Oh so the USB cable of your ODAC is not good. It is really the great advice to buy an ODAC at local shop if we can to test it to make sure it is fine. Thankfully there is a shop in my city selling ODAC but I need to save money first. Thanks for your replying.


 
  Please try to audition it, I would hate for you to buy it and hate how it sounds. Do you have any amp? If you dont maybe have a look at audioquest dragonfly. It is using the same DAC chip and the added bonus is that a)it supports 24/88.2 and also b)it has a decent amp section for IEM.
   
  I think ODAC is nice however dragonfly is better value. I am buying it for pure on the road purposes.


----------



## LoveKnight

I have already had an amplifier, it is JDSlabs C421 OPA2227 and Fiio E10. However I found out Fiio E10 is not a good resolution dac, it is dark, so veil, lack dynamics, and 16-24 bit modes are the same, the soundstage is not good either. What can I expect from this cheap DAC/AMP E10? Nothing, maybe it is only good for very bright headphone such as AKG or Grado but not good for my Sennheiser HD598.
   
  I really want to try ODAC and then after that I keep saving money to upgrade HD598 by buying MoonAudio cable.
   
  About Dragonfly I really want to try but someone said that Dragonfly is just better than ODAC just a little bit and it is forgiving but ODAC is not. Then when my combo will be something like this, ODAC (neutral, unforgiving) -> C421 OPA2227(dark, smooth, transparent, warm and forgiving) -> HD598 (smooth, neutral on dark or bright side a little bit) --> Well may be heaven  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 or hell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> I have already had an amplifier, it is JDSlabs C421 OPA2227 and Fiio E10. However I found out Fiio E10 is not a good resolution dac, it is dark, so veil, lack dynamics, and 16-24 bit modes are the same, the soundstage is not good either. What can I expect from this cheap DAC/AMP E10? Nothing, maybe it is only good for very bright headphone such as AKG or Grado but not good for my Sennheiser HD598.
> 
> I really want to try ODAC and then after that I keep saving money to upgrade HD598 by buying MoonAudio cable.
> 
> ...


 
  We all hear differently, however ODAC is very transparent! I can testify for this. I have a vinyl rip of an album and I also bought the HD version from HD tracks. Before the ODAC with my desktop DAC I could not really tell them apart but with the ODAC I can clearly know which one is the vinyl rip and which one is the track based on the original master tap! I can hear all the traditional vinyl noises! And I need to add the vinyl was recorded using an analog to digital converter! 

 It has a nice punch bass, but it is not bass heavy at all. The ODAC main strentgh is the upper region strength. I need to spend more time and let the unit burn but right out of the box the unit has amazing upper range detail. (which might be too much for vast majoirty of us since by most non audiophile product pays that much attention to upper range, people like beats and that is what they give them).
   
  Honestly ER4S+O2 and ODAC is match mad in heaven. I hope the dragonfly is as good as this. I will buy it in about 2 months time.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> We all hear differently, however ODAC is very transparent! I can testify for this. I have a vinyl rip of an album and I also bought the HD version from HD tracks. Before the ODAC with my desktop DAC I could not really tell them apart but with the ODAC I can clearly know which one is the vinyl rip and which one is the track based on the original master tap! I can hear all the traditional vinyl noises! And I need to add the vinyl was recorded using an analog to digital converter!
> 
> It has a nice punch bass, but it is not bass heavy at all. The ODAC main strentgh is the upper region strength. I need to spend more time and let the unit burn but right out of the box the unit has amazing upper range detail. (which might be too much for vast majoirty of us since by most non audiophile product pays that much attention to upper range, people like beats and that is what they give them).
> 
> Honestly ER4S+O2 and ODAC is match mad in heaven. I hope the dragonfly is as good as this. I will buy it in about 2 months time.


 
  your headphone of choice probably has a lot to do why you are focusing on the upper end of things


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> your headphone of choice probably has a lot to do why you are focusing on the upper end of things


 
  Probably, I will try the XBA-4 and k702 next week. I am too happy now to experiment with other things


----------



## doktorsteve

Anyone tried other opamps in the O2? I am asking this here as I was about to fit an external PSU to my ODAC then I tried replacing the JRC2068 with a JRC2114 (improved 5532 (sic)). The brittle edge of the ODAC seems to have gone. I might dig out my real 5532 and try that. Of course it is just imagination because I did not do a double blind test.


----------



## doktorsteve

OOPS. I did not notice that I had the EQ  enabled on Foobar and that was killing the edge and reducing the bass. More testing tomorrow I think.


----------



## edba2000

I'm using linux and the sound is distorted. I need to set the volume at no more than 60% to get a clean sound.
Is this normal?


----------



## Rawrbington

somebody convince me to buy one of these.
   
  i've got a DLIII in my main speaker rig and so my HP set up has taken a back seat and is now using the lowly Firestone Fubar II.
  will it be a noticable upgrade from the Fubar?
   
  could it even allow my DLIII to go back to the HP rig and have the ODAC run my speaker set up?
   
  the only thing holding me back is i don't like USB.  prefer digital coax err spdif or whatever the kids are calling it these days


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> somebody convince me to buy one of these.
> 
> i've got a DLIII in my main speaker rig and so my HP set up has taken a back seat and is now using the lowly Firestone Fubar II.
> will it be a noticable upgrade from the Fubar?
> ...


 
  google bushmaster dac if you are into coax, optical connection.


----------



## zachchen1996

has anyone compared the dac in the uha-6s mkii with the odac?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> has anyone compared the dac in the uha-6s mkii with the odac?


 
  It is very hard to isolate the amp section from the DAC sound as the unit does not have a DAC lineout. However there are many positive reviews for that device.


----------



## zachchen1996

Couldn't you isolate it like this?

1. galaxy s3/note 2 ---> usb otg cable -----> usb cable -------> uha-6s mkii ---------> earphone X

VERSUS

2. galaxy s3/note 2 ---> usb otg cable -------> usb cable --------> ODAC -------> mini to mini interconnect --------> uha-6s mkii --------earphone X

because if rig 2 sounds better than rig 1, it will be because the odac 's DAC is better than the uha-6s mkii's DAC


----------



## audionewbi

I trust Lee opinion on uha-6s mkii. He had both the O2 and the uha-6s mkii and he prefers the uha-6s mkii over the O2. It should be said that he did not try the ODAC with the O2.
   
I urge anyone who can to try ER4S+O2+ODAC, truly an exotic sound. The unit after 40 hours of burning in has given the Er4s the lover bass extension bass. It does not boost the bass but gives it more refinement and detail. The top end detail was great from the day one without the burn in. The sound is definitely not V-shaped but for some reason the mid-range feels less prominent than the upper and lower range.
  But this combination is very transparent. I have heard so many things that I was not able to pick up with my other amp and dac combo(faint back ground vocal, singers breathing pattern, can be distracting at time but it is very fun!)

I also enjoy the HFI 780+O2+ODAC for Jazz greatly. They do a decent job on electronic.
   
I will try to use the ODAC+O2 with the XBA-4 and k702, fidelio M1 and SHE9900. I might buy the HD 598 and try it out but for now in summary I finally found a combination for my beloved Er4s. I can stop the search and be very happy with this combination!


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> I trust Lee opinion on uha-6s mkii. He had both the O2 and the uha-6s mkii and he prefers the uha-6s mkii over the O2. It should be said that he did not try the ODAC with the O2.
> 
> I urge anyone who can to try ER4S+O2+ODAC, truly an exotic sound. The unit after 40 hours of burning in has given the Er4s the lover bass extension bass. It does not boost the bass but gives it more refinement and detail. The top end detail was great from the day one without the burn in. The sound is definitely not V-shaped but for some reason the mid-range feels less prominent than the upper and lower range.
> But this combination is very transparent. I have heard so many things that I was not able to pick up with my other amp and dac combo(faint back ground vocal, singers breathing pattern, can be distracting at time but it is very fun!)
> ...


 
  It's much more likely your ears burned in


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> It's much more likely your ears burned in


 
  I forgot to add I did not listen to it for 50 hours  
   
  This is headfi and our ears are all subjected to our subjective brain, we all do not have to agree. After all what I wrote was a subjective opinion of an objective design. I guess it is not that objective after all, ehh?
   
  PS: Have used XBA-4 for many hours now, for some odd reason my ears are not burned in yet.


----------



## doktorsteve

LM4562 now in place in my O2. The sound is different even if the distortion measurements are identical (according to NWAVGUY)  using the low gain setting. I would love to believe that the JRC 2068 is good enough - for goodness sake it is not doing much with such a low gain - but for now the LM4562 stays and the JRC2068 goes in the box with the  OPA2134s


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





doktorsteve said:


> The sound is different


 
   
  Of course, you cannot be sure of that if you made the comparison in the usual way of listening to the O2 with the NJM2068, then swapping the op amp (which takes some time, long enough to forget the finest details of the sound), and then listening to it again, knowing all the time which IC is in the amplifier.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Of course, you cannot be sure of that if you made the comparison in the usual way of listening to the O2 with the NJM2068, then swapping the op amp (which takes some time, long enough to forget the finest details of the sound), and then listening to it again, knowing all the time which IC is in the amplifier.


 
  He needs two O2 soo , one with NJM2068 other with LM4562 , swaping the headphone plug is short enough to not be heavely biased .


----------



## antberg

for the "budget" side of things,the possibility of swapping OpAmps in the O2 seems to be a great opportunity of finding the best sound option possible and nice fun of course!


----------



## audionewbi

please do share with us your finding in field of opamp rolling. I like to try opamp rolling but rather follow someone with experience than take up this journey alone


----------



## adydula

I dont want to rain on anyones op amp rolling parade but hope you have read all the stuff the designer has already
  posted on the web about rolling Op amps in the 02. This might help you if you decide to go down that road. 
   
  This also is the ODAC thread and you might want to start this discussion in the
  02 AMP + ODAC Thread.
   
  I would post the link to the data and discussion but we can not do that here.
   
  Alex


----------



## doktorsteve

I put the opamp rolling point here because I am trying to get a more listenable ODAC sound. Maybe the problem is the frequency response peak in my old Sony phones which is more apparent with the ODAC/O2. If you think that the ODAC is perfect with the standard voltage amplifier in the O2 then please consider what happens to the switching noise on the output of the ODAC. There are spikes of several mV which change polarity as the output crosses 0V. I cannot decide if this constitutes crossover distortion albeit at a pretty low level! There could be a difference in the way the voltage amplifier handles these spikes. Or this could be BS. Look I have seen the curves and as I mentioned there is no measurable difference between the recommended opamps at the low gain setting, There are some tracks where a voice or an instrument is lost in the mix but becomes apparent when I switch opamps from JRC2068 to LM4562. It is like I can read an extra line on the eyetest chart. I cannot explain it but I think the effect is real. I think the best I can do is tippex the top of my opamps then get someone else to number them. I repeat my tests to identify the opamps then scrape off the tippex to find which amps are which. If I guess 100 % correctly does that prove something?


----------



## adydula

Hey doktorsteve....
   
  I have no issue with the topic being in this thread....
   
  You may have something wrong with your amp? Have u tried to just change out the stock op amp with another same type op amp and see what your results are?
   
  Also on the being able to guess which one is which has been very much a debatable topic on many posts....especially if your doing the swapping out etc...
   
  Do you still have these 'spikes' when you swap to the LM4562?
   
  If they go away with this swap does it sound any better?
   
  Alex


----------



## stv014

I do not think spikes in the output of the ODAC are normal, there may be some interference problem.


----------



## doktorsteve

After much amp rolling back and forth I have not come to a firm conclusion to my preference. Compared to JRC2068 , the LM4562 seems to be more detailed with better ambience and separation of the parts. On the other hand it also seems to be brighter which may be due to incorrect compensation. This may account for the apparent detail but I am not so sure that is the whole story because the separation of instruments extends into the mid and bass.
   
  If I had some HD600s I would clearly prefer the LM4562  but as I have Sony MDR-CD570 which have significantly more treble I am not sure if I will trade the extra detail for a  more balanced tone.
   
  The ouput of the ODAC looks different today. I am using my netbook as source rather than my desktop and the output seems to be quieter. Maybe it was an earth loop between the PC and the scope picking up radiated switching transients in the ground that I saw before. Today I saw what looks like PWM  which integrated down to about 5mV of high frequency  sawtooth . BY the time the this noise gets through the JRC4556s in the O2 this has almost vanished.
   
  I have to say the ODAC is still the most revealing source that I have.  Unfortunately to me it sounds bright in comparison to the others (2 CD players and UCA222)


----------



## Currawong

I've tried whatever OPAMPs I've had that would fit (some are singles and a Browndog DIP adaptor is too big). The feel the differences between them are very minor. My attitude is that I'll just leave whatever I have spare in there, though I'll probably drop the NE5532 back in it if I decide to review any headphones for consistency (I can't get the JRC2068 from Mouser here and haven't gotten around to sourcing it locally). At some point I will grab an ODAC out of curiosity, but also to have a basic reference system that a large number of people are famliar with when I write impressions of headphones.


----------



## doktorsteve

I agree the effects are probably minor. I like to think of it as being able to see the bottom line of the eye chart rather than the line above when I use the LM4562. At my age I should be happy to see the line above so the extra acuity is quite seductive! Unfortunately the price is a touch of glare and I switched back to the JRC2068 this morning to calm things down.
   To my ears there is not much difference between the JRC2068 and the NE5532.  I am pretty happy to use the JRC5536 with a gain of 2 as the preamp for my speaker system so I might try that too. Its low bandwidth could be an advantage.
  At the other extreme I am curious to hear how the O2 sounds without the gain amplifier. Hopefully the ODAC can drive the paralleled load resistor and volume pot and there is enough volume from my 32R phones.


----------



## doktorsteve

On the basis of listening to the first side of Ziggy Stardust  3 times I declare the NE5532 is my favourite (for today). It is easy to overlook this device as it is not so immediately impressive but grows on you over a period of time.


----------



## frenchbat

Currawong, I can bring the JRC2068 I'm not using to the heaphone festival in 2 weeks. I'm not using it right now. Just drop me a PM.



currawong said:


> I've tried whatever OPAMPs I've had that would fit (some are singles and a Browndog DIP adaptor is too big). The feel the differences between them are very minor. My attitude is that I'll just leave whatever I have spare in there, though I'll probably drop the NE5532 back in it if I decide to review any headphones for consistency (I can't get the JRC2068 from Mouser here and haven't gotten around to sourcing it locally). At some point I will grab an ODAC out of curiosity, but also to have a basic reference system that a large number of people are famliar with when I write impressions of headphones.


----------



## doktorsteve

So I am now making progress. I changed the resistors in the post filter of the ODAC from 220R to 1k (not straightforward when the originals are 1206 and I only have 0805 - am I on the wrong forum?). I think this reduces the -3dB point from 100kHz to 50kHz (I'm guessing as I don't know the resistance built into the DAC chip) and gives a 1 dB droop at 20kHz. As my hearing takes a dive at 12kHz this is not going to bother me 1 iota. Well the difference is huge. The sound is smoother and more detailed with the NE5532. I have yet to try the  other opamps but I am guessing that the differences between them will not be as great because they are not going to get so much out of band junk. I'm currently enjoying Jessie J for the first time since I was given the CD  for Christmas.


----------



## Battou62

May I ask the point of changing the ODAC maker's meticulous designs?


----------



## adydula

Battou62....
   
  They do it because they can!! 
   
  Boys being boys.....its interesting to watch and see what they come up with.
   
  I myself just use is the way it is until I can really hear some "imporvements' that matter to my ears!
   
  all the best
  Alex


----------



## doktorsteve

You ask why I modded the ODAC? Because I had paid for it and I did not like it. Just like the guy on page 1 of this thread. Luckily I have the means to change some parameters.
   
  Maybe you should be asking RS why he left the bandwidth so wide. I don't think that reducing the bandwidth increases distortion. In fact the lighter load on the output amp of the DAC may even reduce it. Ok so the gain at 20kHz falls by 0.5dB. Big deal. And the phase change due to the filter? Apparently there is a big phase change through the DAC anyway. 
   
  Clearly there is a compromise because the 1k output resistance increases noise (how much?) and makes the ODAC more sensitive to cable loading ( really 1m cable is not much capacitance compared to 2200pF) and the output is not blue book level. RS already added the series resistor and changed the cap from the reference design so I just took it a bit further. 
   
  Returning to the O2 I changed the 5532 to the 4562 this morning. The clarity is back but not the offensive edge. I expected the sound to stay the same as for the 5532 as I had made the changes to the ODAC but the increase in clarity remains. I have been listening for 3 hours, tapping my feet and enjoying every minute - it just sounds right now. If that is just expectation bias then I am dead impressed.
   
  I don't think I am deriding RS's objectivist philosophy - I would have thought that minimising the bandwidth of the ODAC output signal would make perfect sense in order to avoid high frequency signals outside the bandwidth of the  4556s. Without the test gear this is just conjecture.


----------



## doktorsteve

I watched this video about the Sabre DAC. Watch it and you might want to reconsider your faith in objective testing.
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1CkyrDIGzOE


----------



## zilch0md

Excellent lecture!  Thanks for that link!


----------



## willmax




----------



## stv014

Quote: 





doktorsteve said:


> I watched this video about the Sabre DAC. Watch it and you might want to reconsider your faith in objective testing.


 
   
  To be honest, it sounded mostly like marketing material for the ESS DACs, rather than really explaining and proving that delta-sigma DACs are flawed. Even if the NPSS noise is true, intermittent noise at a -100 dB or lower peak levels is not audible (I tried a test where complex music is upsampled to 96 kHz sample rate from 44.1 kHz, and the audio information is shifted to the frequency range of 25950 to 48000 Hz, leaving only silence in the audible range. I played this back at a volume that would be too loud for normal listening, but heard nothing on my non-ESS DAC; if there really was a noise issue with the DAC, I think I should have heard something). Also, on the "non-linear excess phase" picture, it is normal that the time between the edges increases near the maximum and minimum levels (this happens with any dithering of a full range signal to 1 bit; multi-bit delta-sigma DACs - which are the most common currently - allow for better dithering that makes the quantization noise uncorrelated to the input signal, and avoid the problem); the HyperStream graphs basically "cheat" by running at a higher clock frequency.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *doktorsteve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Maybe you should be asking RS why he left the bandwidth so wide.


 
    
  I assume he wanted a flat (+/- 0.1 dB) frequency response up to 19 kHz ? The maximum variation of 0.1 dB in the frequency response is mentioned in his criteria for transparent audio reproduction.
   
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doktorsteve* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And the phase change due to the filter? Apparently there is a big phase change through the DAC anyway.


 
   
  If the DAC uses a linear phase filter (I think it does), then it does not necessarily change the phase much. Nevertheless, the phase shift in the filter is not an issue if it is the same on both channels, the roll-off will become audible much sooner.


----------



## doktorsteve

Did I miss a train wreck somewhere?
  When did we go off topic?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *adydula* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> They do it because they can!!
> 
> ...


 
   
  The problem with most DIY "modding" or "tweaking" of audio equipment is that it usually relies on sighted comparisons against the previous/unmodified state of the device, which are also affected by the limitations of auditory memory (only in rare cases do the modders buy two identical devices and perform a level matched double-blind ABX test between the original and the modified version). Objective tests with audio analyzers and oscilloscopes, null tests, etc. are also rarely performed, often even RMAA is not used. It is not surprising that major improvements can be heard after "op amp rolling" or other changes, even if the sound really remains the same, or even becomes slightly worse.


----------



## K_19

For anyone with ODAC with both RCA and standard line out:
   
  Is it okay to have both of those connections connected at the same time or not? I ask as I only have the ODAC with the standard 3.5 line out and I could really use a multiple output for it right now...


----------



## adydula

K_19
   
  From the JDA Labs site "*RCA Output* - RCA output jacks at rear, 3.5mm output and USB jack at front. Black endplates. 95mm case length. Note: The ODAC supports only 1 output; do not use 3.5mm and RCA jacks simultaneously"
   
  Note they indicate NOT to use the 3.5mm and RCA jack at the same time.
   
  I have (2) of the ODACS, one for standalone apps and the other integrated into an enclosure with the O2 Amp.
   
  I use the RCA stand alone version to use in a 2 ch speaker system,
   
  Alex


----------



## K_19

Aw shucks... thanks for the reply.


----------



## hallom

hey guys, anyone here using e-mu 0404 usb? i was wondering how it compares to the o2d (o2 with odac), as dac+preamp? i'm planning to change my emu so i'm collecting info.


----------



## doktorsteve

Humble pie time. To test my modification to the ODAC I wired 1k and 220R resistors to a switch and flicked between them. Even knowing reasonably well which resistor I was listening to ( I only checked the function of the switch later) I was not able to detect any difference between the positions. I could not even detect the change in volume due to the change in resistance (<.5dB) to get a clue which resistor was in use. I tried with NMJ2068, NE5532 and LM4562. Whilst there was a distinct difference between the sound quality of the O2 when I changed the opamps , I still could not tell the difference between the resistors with any of them.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





doktorsteve said:


> I tried with NMJ2068, NE5532 and LM4562. Whilst there was a distinct difference between the sound quality of the O2 when I changed the opamps , I still could not tell the difference between the resistors with any of them.


 
   
  With a second O2 outputting matched levels, you could also try a similar switching test between the op amps.


----------



## doktorsteve

Hey, why don't you try swapping the opamps and tell us what you think? Just power down without turning the volume knob then swap and power up again. I think you will be surprised by the difference between the NMJ2068 and the LM4562. The difference seems out of proportion to the amount of work the opamp is doing so I wonder if there is a stability problem with the LM4562. I can do a blind comparison between the NE5532 and the LM4562 because the printing on them is almost unreadable!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





doktorsteve said:


> Just power down without turning the volume knob then swap and power up again.


 
   
  That is not a reliable method, because it:
  - takes too long time to make the switch
  - is a sighted test, i.e. you know which op amp you are listening to
  You have already found out yourself with the resistors that hearing imaginary differences is indeed quite possible. After all, before implementing the fast switching, you were sure that the 1 kΩ resistors sounded better, and now the difference is gone. Perhaps the same would happen with the op amps, too ?


----------



## chrislangley4253

So, I want to move my O2 to my night stand for nighttime listening so I can control the volume.. Do you guys think it is best to use a long usb cable and  move the dac and amp to my night stand or to use a long audio cable in between the dac and amp? I'm leaning towards usb.


----------



## hamburgerladdy

chrislangley4253 said:


> So, I want to move my O2 to my night stand for nighttime listening so I can control the volume.. Do you guys think it is best to use a long usb cable and  move the dac and amp to my night stand or to use a long audio cable in between the dac and amp? I'm leaning towards usb.




Asked the maker awhile ago on his blog about usb cord length. He replied that even a 10' cable sounds good.

On the other hand, I don't use a cable, but an adapter to a powered port.

Would personally go with an audio extension cable to avoid distortion.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> So, I want to move my O2 to my night stand for nighttime listening so I can control the volume.. Do you guys think it is best to use a long usb cable and  move the dac and amp to my night stand or to use a long audio cable in between the dac and amp? I'm leaning towards usb.


 
   
  How long would these cables be?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> How long would these cables be?


 
  10 or so feet.  My computer is on one side of my bedroom and my nightstand on the other. Actually, we better call it about 15 feet. Somewhere aroundabout there


----------



## Timmyw

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> 10 or so feet.  My computer is on one side of my bedroom and my nightstand on the other. Actually, we better call it about 15 feet. Somewhere aroundabout there


 

 I think the maximum USB cable length is 5M. You should be fine and dandy.


----------



## xzobinx

has anyone tried to mod xlr output to the odac?. RCA is common now but I want balance output as well. 
   
  If anyone wants to ask for reasons, it's just for fun. I don't really need more output but I'd like to try.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





xzobinx said:


> has anyone tried to mod xlr output to the odac?. RCA is common now but I want balance output as well.
> 
> If anyone wants to ask for reasons, it's just for fun. I don't really need more output but I'd like to try.


 
   
  Well ODAC is not electroniquely balanced , so it's pointless , but you can use RCA => XLR cable , it will work without any issue .


----------



## xzobinx

I understand that it's not designed to be balanced but Is there a way to wire the line-out socket from the board to 3 pin xlr (I'm noob when it comes to DIY ). It's pointless on the paper but I just want to try.
  I tried the rca => xlr adapter before and it worked but It's not the purpose here (my v200 has rca input as well unlike your auditor so xlr is not necessary) . I just want to have some small project and try to understand a bit about DIY. 
  Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> Well ODAC is not electroniquely balanced , so it's pointless , but you can use RCA => XLR cable , it will work without any issue .


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





xzobinx said:


> I understand that it's not designed to be balanced but Is there a way to wire the line-out socket from the board to 3 pin xlr (I'm noob when it comes to DIY ). It's pointless on the paper but I just want to try.


 
   
  You need to connect the output (L or R) to pin 2 of the XLR connector, and the ground to pin 3. Also connect the ground to pin 1, but under certain circumstances this may be unneeded (if there is already a ground connection between the devices through some other path).


----------



## Currawong

I pinched gkanai's ODAC for a bit of a listening test and have been giving it a bit of a run with my DIY O2 (which uses the NE5532 as I can't get the other opamp from Mouser). The sound is very clear as I expected, with my Symphones Magnums. I'd prefer listening with it over the Apogee Duet II I had here before. Like every Sabre-based DAC I've tried, such as the Dragonfly, I feel the sound is a bit dry. It's not threatening my high-end rig in any way, but like many others have already said, it's impressively good. I totally understand anyone who feels that the combo is all they need to enjoy music, as in the absence of what I own now, I could have easily have ended up feeling the same way.


----------



## beaver316

One thing that always kind of bothered me with the ODAC is that it's totally usb powered, no mains power. This is good and bad depending on how you look at it. It's good for convenience but bad for performance, or at least theoretically. The usb power from our computers is dirty and not ideal for audio streaming, or so I've read. I used to own a Fiio E17 which i used through usb on my laptop and there was always static noise and interference which was sometimes caused by my usb mouse. Or maybe my laptop just has bad usb ports.
   
  I ordered the ODAC a few days ago along with a powered usb hub off Amazon today. The powered hub should help here.
   
  Does anybody have any bad experiences with the ODAC which may be caused by insufficient or dirty power? It doesn't seem to be common but it still bugs me.


----------



## adydula

The ODAC was designed to be used with USB power and the world class spec measurements were attained while using USB power.
   
  There are lots of opinions on this and many will be glad to share them I am sure.
   
  The ODAC was designed specifically with this in mind as one of the design points that is what you dont need to have .....to have DAC audio happiness...that is your DAC simply disappearing from the signal chain...
   
  If you seach for the designers site you will find a list of things that are not needed according to him for audio excellence.
   
  One of these is no need for eloborate and or high current power supplies...
   
  I personally have tried this ODAC on several pc systems from IBM, Lenovo, Dell, Acer notebooks...with USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports.
   
  I also tired it off of (2) USB powered buss's and several desktop systems, from Gateway, IBM, Lenovo, and (3) homebuilt pcs with boards from ASUS, EVGA,
   
  I also measured the actual current draw with the ODAC in use....and staticly....the current draw doesnt come close to taxing most USB PC power sources....well under the 500 ma spec. 
   
  Also the USB cables I use have a ferrite bead for filtering of any HF crap that might get induced on the cable...and the ODAC also has a ferrite on the dac board as well...
   
  The designer in his site has stated that USB power often degrades performance due to noise.
   
  The design of the ODAC uses a split digital filter and analog power supplies each with their own filtering and regulation which can be seen by looking at the schematic that is now available on the web. 
   
  That said try and listen yourself and see if you can really hear any real world differences in using USB power vs a powered buss etc..
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Thanks for the very informative post. I may actually go ahead and cancel my usb hub order and save some money.
   
  I'll see how it performs when it arrives straight from my laptop, if i detect problems then i'll probably purchase the hub.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> The usb power from our computers is dirty and not ideal for audio streaming, or so I've read.


 
   
  It's true. USB power is dirty. Line ("mains") power is dirty. There's noise everywhere in every electrical circuit. It's inescapable. A designer's goal is to reduce that noise until it's inaudible.
   



beaver316 said:


> Does anybody have any bad experiences with the ODAC which may be caused by insufficient or dirty power? It doesn't seem to be common but it still bugs me.


 

   
  There are reports which I find credible: If insufficient power is available through the USB bus, the ODAC performs poorly.
   
  Dirty power? You can read about "PSRR", etc., but the details are above my head.


----------



## adydula

If insufficient power is available through the USB bus, the ODAC will perform poorly?
   
  Well....yeah....as well as many other USB devices....
   
  Define what insufficient power is for the ODAC please?
   
  Most issues with USB power is people not understanding the USB specs, the current that the USB supply can source.
  In USB 2.0 specs its 500ma. You can do the math,
   
  power = volts x amps in a DC circuit.
   
  Most issues have people plugging in too many things (usb devices) into a pc on a single bus...
   
  So you get a powered USB hub if its really needed etc..
   
  Now-a-days with most pc's you have more and more integrated function inside the box that this situation is less and less in reality.
   
  Most folks are simply wasting there money on a powered hub....but again try it without one and see if you have ANY issues at all.
   
  You can always get one later.
   
  Alex


----------



## slingshot

I'm thinking about buying the O2+ODAC but I have a few questions. If I want to use the ODAC section, the only way to use it is through the USB, correct? Also, if I use the jack in the front of the unit, is the ODAC section disabled? Finally, is there anyway to connect a CD player to the ODAC section using RCA with an adapter?
   
  Thanks!
   
  Nicolas


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





slingshot said:


> I'm thinking about buying the O2+ODAC but I have a few questions. If I want to use the ODAC section, the only way to use it is through the USB, correct? Also, if I use the jack in the front of the unit, is the ODAC section disabled? Finally, is there anyway to connect a CD player to the ODAC section using RCA with an adapter?


 
   
  Reference the downloadable O2+ODAC instructions.
   
  1. The only input on the ODAC is USB.
   
  2. If the O2's analog jack is connected, the ODAC is bypassed.
   
  3. There are no TOSLink, S/PDIF, or other ODAC inputs other than USB. (What output connections does your CD player have?)


----------



## slingshot

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





slingshot said:


> I'm thinking about buying the O2+ODAC but I have a few questions. If I want to use the ODAC section, the only way to use it is through the USB, correct? Also, if I use the jack in the front of the unit, is the ODAC section disabled? Finally, is there anyway to connect a CD player to the ODAC section using RCA with an adapter?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Nicolas


 
  Only USB in. I have no idea what the second question is asking... I also have no idea what the third question is asking.


----------



## LoveKnight

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I pinched gkanai's ODAC for a bit of a listening test and have been giving it a bit of a run with my DIY O2 (which uses the NE5532 as I can't get the other opamp from Mouser). The sound is very clear as I expected, with my Symphones Magnums. I'd prefer listening with it over the Apogee Duet II I had here before. Like every Sabre-based DAC I've tried, such as the Dragonfly, I feel the sound is a bit dry. It's not threatening my high-end rig in any way, but like many others have already said, it's impressively good. I totally understand anyone who feels that the combo is all they need to enjoy music, as in the absence of what I own now, I could have easily have ended up feeling the same way.


 
   
  Apogee Duet II is over $500 and ODAC + O2 is cheaper than that. It really makes me feel more confident to buy an ODAC. Thanks Jdslabs for making cheap products but with good and acceptable quality when comparing to other manufactures.
   
  Thanks, Currawong. If you gave it positive impression then ODACs are approved by Currawong, one of the best audio head-fi members that I have known.


----------



## beaver316

Could someone tell me the length of the usb cable bundled with the odac? There is no reference to this on jds labs site.


----------



## adydula

Its about 3 feet  / 1 meter i think...at work but not unusually long....
  I will measure later at home.
   
  Alex


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Could someone tell me the length of the usb cable bundled with the odac? There is no reference to this on jds labs site.


 
   
  It's about 3'. My ruler is packed away for moving, but it's not more than an inch or so either way.


----------



## beaver316

Great, it's just about the right length for me setup.


----------



## samwell7

Ordered my odac from jdslabs, reading this thread has got me pretty excited about it.
I've currently got a native instruments komplete audio 6 which apparently measures quite well but I've been using its headphone out into my o2. 
I got the RCA version aswell so I'll test it with my rokit 5's (I really need some new monitors)
I'll give my impressions when I get it. I've got the k702's and some krk kns8400's which are both quite bright cans so it'll be interesting to see if I can find this 'shrill brightness' which I've read about.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

I'm thinking of trying out the RCA-output ODAC sometime next year (when I'll have funds); problem is I'm using an iPad2 as my source unit. Anyone know where to get DIY parts for USB cables, such as plugs, etc*? I'm thinking of having a custom Y-cable USB cable made - with the ODAC input plug on one end going out to a 0.5m length USB-A on one side (for the iPad CCK) carrying the signal conductors and either a longer one to go to a USB PSU/port on my surge protector, or a short one with a micro-B into an Energizer (or cheaper brand) 2700mAh battery pack. Or a mini-USB male to two female (any size) USB plug Y-cables**
   
  Would that even work? Thing is I could either use a powered hub*** or a DAC with its own PSU that also powers the USB receiver chip**** but these have their owndisadvantages; plus based on reviews it sounds like the ODAC is exactly the sound I'll like.
   
  Or  should I  just wire the batteries or a PSU to the DIY ODAC?
   
   
   
  *no need for the conductors, I can chop up a few over cables or something like that
  **the only ones I see have one mini-USB on one end, then the USB-A end has another USB-A attached to it - to get more power out from a computer into a portable HDD, the wiring of which I'm not sure if hooking up the power USB-A will be safe for the iPad or enough for the ODAC if the iPad sucks up that current
  ***which by some reports,some iOS or Android devices sometimes don't work with some of these - return policies in my country only work for defective units
 ****unlike the Bursons, which has a solid PSU but it's not powering the USB section


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





protegemaniac said:


> [...]
> Anyone know where to get DIY parts for USB cables, such as plugs, etc?
> [...]


 
   
  Some posters in the "DIY Cable Gallery!!" forum (http://www.head-fi.org/t/71148/diy-cable-gallery) have built their own USB (etc.) cables and know of sources. I don't know anything about them personally.


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Some posters in the "DIY Cable Gallery!!" forum (http://www.head-fi.org/t/71148/diy-cable-gallery) have built their own USB (etc.) cables and know of sources. I don't know anything about them personally.


 

 Cheap connectors can be found on ebay.
  A simple (short) DIY usb cable with separate input for power would be the simplest solution to replace power of any usb dac that uses usb power.
  The real problem is finding a 5V rechargeable battery pack. Or at lest I could not find one easily available so I'm using 3x1.5V for ~ 4.5 V output without any problems for a small usb dac (NOT ODAC).


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Some posters in the "DIY Cable Gallery!!" forum (http://www.head-fi.org/t/71148/diy-cable-gallery) have built their own USB (etc.) cables and know of sources. I don't know anything about them personally.


 
   
  Thanks! I forgot about that thread; going through it now.
   
   
  Quote: 





ceausuc said:


> Cheap connectors can be found on ebay.
> A simple (short) DIY usb cable with separate input for power would be the simplest solution to replace power of any usb dac that uses usb power.
> The real problem is finding a 5V rechargeable battery pack. Or at lest I could not find one easily available so I'm using 3x1.5V for ~ 4.5 V output without any problems for a small usb dac (NOT ODAC).


 
   
  Thanks! I'll look at eBay; i was thinking there might be something like PartsExpress, I was browsing there before I posted here. As for the battery pack, aren't the mobile rechargeable powerbanks (usually intended for tablets and smartphones) like this capable of 5V? (And is 1amp enough?) I just sort of thought they would be since they're USB standard; plus I can get one in just about any electronics store and charge it easily.


----------



## SupR-Pinou

Hi guys !

 I'm really interested by the RCA output ODAC but I have a few questions. Here is my situation :
 - Currently using the AKG 701 with the Heed Canamp AMP on my computer with the Asus Xonar essence ST doing the DAC part.
 - Listening music on my computer.

 Will I see any benefits/improvements with this DAC compared to the Asus Xonar Essence ST?

 Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## beaver316

I should be getting my odac next week, but in the meantime i've been thinking a lot.
   
  The odac doesnt have any indication as to what sampling rate or bit depth it's processing. My old dac the fiio E17 always displayed this info so i always knew if i had my computer and foobar set up correctly. I've read here previously that since the odac supports 24/96, we should set up our audio player to use WASAPI and set up the Playback Devices tab like in the picture below. 
   
   

   
  But when this was done with the E17, it would constantly display the selected bit depth and sampling rate (24/96) even when playing a 16/44.1 file. So isn't it up-sampling then?
   
  What i found to work best was to set the playback devices option to 16/44.1, but make sure to tick all options under the supported formats screen:
   

   
  Having it set up like this, when playing a 16/44.1 song in foobar, it would display just that on the E17, and playing a 24/96 song would also display correctly.
   
  Would this not be the correct way to set up the ODAC with your Windows PC?


----------



## thecansmancan

Hey just curious here. I've heard great things about O2 +odac+HD600 combo. well, does anyone have any experience odac+matrix m-stage+HD600. Just curious. thanks guys.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





supr-pinou said:


> Will I see any benefits/improvements with this DAC compared to the Asus Xonar Essence ST?


 
   
  Considering the K701 reflects well enough any changes in the components upstream from it, and people compare the ODAC to $1,000 CDPs where you don't hear that about the Essence ST, most likely yes.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





protegemaniac said:


> Considering the K701 reflects well enough any changes in the components upstream from it, and people compare the ODAC to $1,000 CDPs where you don't hear that about the Essence ST, most likely yes.


 
  the essence is a good DAC albeit coloured, but it needs different opamps, and an external amp. 
   
  And well AKG in general reflects better components. The k242HD is the same.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> the essence is a good DAC albeit coloured...


 
   
  Now that you mention it, I'll add to my previous post: most likely there will be an audible difference, but as for whether the listener will like it is another matter.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





thecansmancan said:


> Hey just curious here. I've heard great things about O2 +odac+HD600 combo. well, does anyone have any experience odac+matrix m-stage+HD600. Just curious. thanks guys.


 
  The M-stage I had was very, very similar to the O2. I couldn't tell the two apart, so I sold off the one that was more bulky and more expensive and kept the amp with published measurements to prove it's performance.

 Just my experience with the two


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





protegemaniac said:


> battery pack, aren't the mobile rechargeable powerbanks (usually intended for tablets and smartphones) like this capable of 5V? (And is 1amp enough?) I just sort of thought they would be since they're USB standard; plus I can get one in just about any electronics store and charge it easily.


 
   
  I also found the phone powerbanks like the one you linked. These do output 5V but I don't like the fact that I can't see what it's inside the pretty box. Could be a 6/7V battery that gets its 5V output with a noisy regulator. I just want a normal 5V rechargeable battery 
  In the mean time 3 eneloops in series do their job just fine
   
  1A is more than enough. Computer USB ports output 0.5A normally.


----------



## audionewbi

O2 cannot power k702, yea I wish i could but I dont feel good lying to myself. However pair O2 with Er4s, you will love it


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





ceausuc said:


> I also found the phone powerbanks like the one you linked. These do output 5V but I don't like the fact that I can't see what it's inside the pretty box. Could be a 6/7V battery that gets its 5V output with a noisy regulator. I just want a normal 5V rechargeable battery
> In the mean time 3 eneloops in series do their job just fine
> 
> 1A is more than enough. Computer USB ports output 0.5A normally.


 
   
  Good point; BTW I'm discussing this same thing on another forum and this link was posted: http://www.circuitsathome.com/adum4160-usb-isolator-assembly-guide
   
  I'll try that circuit isolator first; if it proves noisy I'll go with the Eneloops.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> O2 cannot power k702, yea I wish i could but I dont feel good lying to myself. However pair O2 with Er4s, you will love it


 
   
  The O2 powers the Q701, K701, and K702 with room to spare. Who misled you to believe otherwise?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> The O2 powers the Q701, K701, and K702 with room to spare. Who misled you to believe otherwise?


 
  my ears.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> my ears.


 
  what's your source?


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> my ears.


 
   
  You should say that you don't like the pairing . Rather than "can't power " .


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do you find the O2 produces a thin, flat sound, possibly with harsh treble and a lack of bass?


----------



## olsenn

Quote: 





> Do you find the O2 produces a thin, flat sound, possibly with harsh treble and a lack of bass?


 
   
  Thin and flat... Absolutely! The O2 has very low noise (thin) and is linear over the entire audible frequency range (flat). In virtue of it having a flat response, you may find it lacks bass in comparison to your other amps, but that is only because your other amps are not flat (they emphesize bass). Treble is not harsh, it is clean (low noise) and accurate (linear).
   
  If you dislike the O2, then what you really dislike is your headphones!


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





olsenn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Not I! I was trying to draw out the other poster and then reach the conclusions you posted.
   
  There are some Classical vocal passages (strong, loud, Sopranos) which are piercing with the O2 and JVC HA-S500. With the O2 and HD-650 or DT 990, they're sublime. With the M-Stage and S500, they still sound good. Logically, that's similar to what I expected.
   
  But, as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. To me, the ODAC+O2 combo tastes good.


----------



## TMRaven

Thinking the O2 sounds thin and bright with the AKG phones and concluding that it's not powering it.  Good ol' head-fi.


----------



## adydula

The O2 does not lack bass.
   
  My LCD2's are awesome with the O2 and ODAC, My AKG 702 and Q701 play very well...and the O2 has no issue driving the 701/2 to levels louder than you can stand.
   
  The lack of bass is more the cans ability to reproduce bass...
   
  A.


----------



## thecansmancan

well, assuming i got the m stage for practically the same price as the o2, which is a better value?
   
  The matrix has 4 gain settings, does the 02?
  The matrix has 2 rca inputs, what about the 02?
   
  ...i'm not knocking the O2, i''m, honestly curious. 
   
  And assuming the ODAC pairs well with both, can anyone  recommend anything better, DAC wise?
   
  How does this compare to a hrt msii


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





thecansmancan said:


> well, assuming i got the m stage for practically the same price as the o2, which is a better value?
> 
> The matrix has 4 gain settings, does the 02?
> The matrix has 2 rca inputs, what about the 02?
> ...


 
   
  The O2 has two gain settings, one analog input, and uses two, 9V, rechargeable batteries for portability. It's more transparent (but not by a large margin to my ears.)
   
  The ODAC and HRT MS II are indistinguishable in sound quality. The MS II accepts a wider range of input encodings and comes in a more compact package.
   
  The ODAC+O2 combo has one USB and one analog input. It requires an external, A/C transformer.
   
  Which is a better value? That judgement is for the eyes and ears of the purchaser.


----------



## adydula

Never had a Matrix....and dont know how it actually measures up to it spec wise...but its a discrete amp i believe...lots to go wrong if its not done correctly.
  Many folks have them and like them...
   
  I have had the HRT MSii and the HRT MSii+....both good USB dacs...
  The ODAC is as good...name your poison.
  For the price the ODAC is a very good perfroming dac...
   
  The gain issues is not a real issue for me....you want to use the lowest gain setting as possible.
  You can change the gain settings in the O2 depending on you needs..its all well documented on the blog over there at the designers site.
   
  The amp i built and the one i got from JDS Labs uses the standard gain and I use the lower gain setting with multiple cans...no issues.
   
  Good Luck
   
  Alex


----------



## SupR-Pinou

Just bought the ODAC from Head 'n' HiFi after reading your comments (thanks btw).
  If anyone is interested I'll post my impressions on any improvements/drawbacks in sound quality compared to my Asus xonar essence ST soundcard.


----------



## thecansmancan

Ok, thanks guys. That's very helpful. I'm quite excited to get the matrix. And now that i know that the odac and hrt msII are the same in terms of audio quality, it makes my life easier finding a deal.


----------



## call001

Quote: 





supr-pinou said:


> Just bought the ODAC from Head 'n' HiFi after reading your comments (thanks btw).
> If anyone is interested I'll post my impressions on any improvements/drawbacks in sound quality compared to my Asus xonar essence ST soundcard.


 
   
   
  Yes, Please!
   
  I 'm very interested in your impressions , coz I am using  an Asus Xonar DG sound card($30) right now....
   
  I already have a O2, but don't know if I should get the ODAC too.....
   
  The ODAC's price is $99, compared to the Xonar $30, is it worth?
   
   
  The Xonar DG , I am satisfied 90%.....the problem I have is when I listen to a song , I feel the singer is shaking her head while she is singing....sometimes the voice come from left side a little bit , then 2 minutes later, the vioce come from right side a little bit ,,after another 2 minutes left again ,,,,,,not very strong , not too much , but just a little bit......make me feel a little bit weird...
   
  The headphone I use is Fostex T50RP moded by myself.
   
   
  Waiting for your impressions.........
   
   
  Thanks.


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> what's your source?


 
  my source is ODAC
  Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Do you find the O2 produces a thin, flat sound, possibly with harsh treble and a lack of bass?


 
  That is my feeling with this pairing sadly. 
  Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Thinking the O2 sounds thin and bright with the AKG phones and concluding that it's not powering it.  Good ol' head-fi.


 
  Perhaps in my case I have a problem, I have to turn the volume nob passed 12 in order to achieve my listening volume. And you can test for your self, passed 2 there is zero fluctuation in db loudness.

 I have an excellent pairing performance with ER4S, but saying AKG will not sound pleasant out of O2, regardless whether it is the fault of the headphone or the flatness of the O2.


----------



## SupR-Pinou

Quote: 





call001 said:


> Yes, Please!
> 
> I 'm very interested in your impressions , coz I am using  an Asus Xonar DG sound card($30) right now....


 
  I'll do some feedback as soon as I receive the ODAC (probably in the middle of the week).


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The ODAC, O2, and AKG are designed to be transparent so you can hear your source material unaltered. The "thin, flat sound" (to use my description) isn't a power problem. The problem is that you don't like the actual sound of whatever you're listening to.
   
  To get something more satisfying, you could
   

 use a software or hardware equalizer;
 replace the AKG's with 'phones which color (alter) the sound;
 replace the ODAC, O2, or both with equipment which colors the sound.
   
  The ODAC, O2, and AKG are working as they are supposed to work.
   


> Originally Posted by *audionewbi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Perhaps in my case I have a problem, I have to turn the volume nob passed 12 in order to achieve my listening volume. And you can test for your self, passed 2 there is zero fluctuation in db loudness.
> 
> I have an excellent pairing performance with ER4S, but saying AKG will not sound pleasant out of O2, regardless whether it is the fault of the headphone or the flatness of the O2.


 
   

  The AKG [QK]70[12] have a low nominal impedance but require considerable current to drive. You will have to use the higher gain settting on the O2 and/or set the volume knob higher, possibly much higher, than you will for your much-more sensitive ER4S.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Hamilcar nailed it.

 A lot of music is really just recorded and mastered terribly, when it comes down to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hopefully as the technology gets better and better artists can start setting up more and more in home studios and mastering/recording stuff themselves.. But, even in these scenarios, sometimes they crank their levels to the point of clipping so the song can be played on the radio. It pisses me off so much that they master CD's differently than vinyl. So many times the vinyl has much greater dynamic range.. but, it's vinyl :-/

 I'll probably give up and set up a nice vinyl rig one of these days and move the mountains and only listen to obscure recordings of ambient whale noises.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *call001* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The Xonar DG , I am satisfied 90%.....the problem I have is when I listen to a song , I feel the singer is shaking her head while she is singing....sometimes the voice come from left side a little bit , then 2 minutes later, the vioce come from right side a little bit ,,after another 2 minutes left again ,,,,,,not very strong , not too much , but just a little bit......make me feel a little bit weird...
> 
> The headphone I use is Fostex T50RP moded by myself.


 
   
  Are you sure the effect is caused by the Xonar DG, and not by the headphones, and is not in the music either ? It could also be something simple like a bad contact on one channel.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *audionewbi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Perhaps in my case I have a problem, I have to turn the volume nob passed 12 in order to achieve my listening volume. And you can test for your self, passed 2 there is zero fluctuation in db loudness.


 
   
  If you are using the ODAC and 2.5x gain (do not select the 6.5x gain with the ODAC), then there is no problem with setting 12 o'clock or even maximum volume on AC power. However, it is possible that you did not compare the O2 to your other amplifier that sounds less "thin" at matched levels.


----------



## adydula

Listening to Allison Krauss with Q701's and volume is set to 10 o'clock poistion. Low gain setting of 2.5.
  Details and presence is perfect, bass is tight, authentic and natural...just a wonderful combination.
   
  I can go to 11 o'clock position but Allison Krauss's voice will drill a hole in your head....just a wonderful voice.
   
  The LCD's I listen to a notch higher most of the time....but again no issue at all driving these cans.
   
  Listening with HRT MSii+ right now which has a hotter output than the ODAC, 2.25vrms.
   
  So when comparing the two dacs you have to level set....
   
  Alex


----------



## Docks

AKGs have some pretty heavy bass rolloff. It's part of their sound, if you don't like the odac with them you probably want a "voiced" dac. To say the odac sounds thin is foolish in my books. Post a frequency response of the odac beside the AKGs and you will see what I'm talking about.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





docks said:


> AKGs have some pretty heavy bass rolloff. It's part of their sound, if you don't like the odac with them you probably want a "voiced" dac. To say the odac sounds thin is foolish in my books. Post a frequency response of the odac beside the AKGs and you will see what I'm talking about.


 
   
  AKG's 701's don't roll off the bass, they just don't emphasize it (or the midbass.)
   
  And why is it foolish? Nobody is born knowing how electronic equipment works. The OP's conclusions were logical ... if incorrect.


----------



## Docks

hamilcarbarca said:


> AKG's 701's don't roll off the bass, they just don't emphasize it (or the midbass.)
> 
> And why is it foolish? Nobody is born knowing how electronic equipment works. The OP's conclusions were logical ... if incorrect.




http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf

The K701 defiantly have rolloff after 100hz (also note terrible distortion! :eek, also note the sharp peaks on the square waves. My ears hurt just looking at these graphs. Considering the ears are less sensitive at these lower frequencies these I cant see these being enjoyable at all for any electronic music.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote:  





> The K701 defiantly have rolloff after 100hz (also note terrible distortion!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, no takers here.


----------



## Docks

hamilcarbarca said:


> Sorry, no takers here.





Did you look at my attached graph? 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK701.pdf

Are you saying rolled off bass below 100hz, high distortion and sharp square waves is flat and likely the odacs fault? Just want to confirm this.


----------



## adydula

no!!!


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





docks said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I you'll re-read my post, you'll see I said nothing of the sort. I'm confirming that I'm simply not interested in analyses based on interpretations of graphs which aren't accompanied by critical listening tests. They aren't useful.


----------



## Docks

hamilcarbarca said:


> I you'll re-read my post, you'll see I said nothing of the sort. I'm confirming that I'm simply not interested in analyses based on interpretations of graphs which aren't accompanied by critical listening tests. They aren't useful.




Frequency response, distortion and square waves mean nothing to you? You won't accept k701s have rolled off bass? Are you serious? I wish I was your salesperson!


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





docks said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's obvious my statements haven't been sufficiently clear. I will confirm the following.
   

 The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not "roll-off" low frequencies.
 The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not have unacceptably high distortion.
 The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not have unacceptable responses to square-wave impulses.
 The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not cause earbleeds.
 The ODAC does not "roll-off" low frequencies.
 The ODAC does not have unacceptably high distortion.
 The ODAC does not have unacceptable responses to square-wave impulses.
 The ODAC does does not cause earbleeds.
 
 Interpretation of headphone-measurement graphs are insufficient evidence that any of the above are untrue.
   
  Since I don't believe I can be any more explicit, I'll stop here. I apologize for the confusion I've caused.


----------



## adydula

Many headphones when u look at the freq graphs show a rolloff of the freq response on the low end....some more that others.
   
  My LCD 2's are superlative on the low end when u look at the graphs .
   
  When u listen to the 701 compared to the lcd2's...the bass if much better that the 701's...that said to my the 701's have really nice tight base for what they are, very listenable and many times surprise the heck out of me....especially with really low pipe organ...absolutley amazing...and the soundstage of the 701's is also superb to me...
   
  Each to his or her own...I would not part with either of these cans....
   
  Alex


----------



## Docks

hamilcarbarca said:


> It's obvious my statements haven't been sufficiently clear. I will confirm the following.
> 
> 
> The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not "roll-off" low frequencies.
> ...




I don't know what more you need than a graph saying that the K701s have poor low frequency performance. If you refuse to accept the information these measurements are providing I'm not even sure you should be allowed to recommend headphones to fellow members here as you are providing them with disinformation and your opinions.


The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not "roll-off" low frequencies. *This is blatantly incorrect, to deny this is ignorance*
The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not have unacceptably high distortion. *Define acceptable? They are very high distortion when compared to other cans in the lower frequency ranges*
The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not have unacceptable responses to square-wave impulses. *The massive spike at the leading edge is okay?*
The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not cause earbleeds. *Haha I would hope not, but those square waves look pretty bad*


----------



## cubusmybro

I am having some major troubles with my ODAC. I soldered the line out to the board and plugged the USB audio into my PC. I plugged into the line out and into my O2 but I have no sound. I thought it was just solder and play. Is there anything I'm missing because as of now I have no sound. I have set it up on my PC and it recognizes it and everything, but there is no signal going through the line out. Thanks for the help it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## thecansmancan

Quote: 





docks said:


> I don't know what more you need than a graph saying that the K701s have poor low frequency performance. If you refuse to accept the information these measurements are providing I'm not even sure you should be allowed to recommend headphones to fellow members here as you are providing them with disinformation and your opinions.
> The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not "roll-off" low frequencies. *This is blatantly incorrect, to deny this is ignorance*
> The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not have unacceptably high distortion. *Define acceptable? They are very high distortion when compared to other cans in the lower frequency ranges*
> The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not have unacceptable responses to square-wave impulses. *The massive spike at the leading edge is okay?*
> The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not cause earbleeds. *Haha I would hope not, but those square waves look pretty bad*


 
  My friend, i don't think you understand what Hamilcar is saying. It's not a matter of ignorance, or the graph says this vs the graph said that. They're say graphs don't always reflect a headphones true sound. I have to agree with them, that critical listening, as long as it is blind, is one of the best ways to truly understand the sound signature of a headphone. A blind test throws opinion to the wolves. As well, is not the most true understanding of a headphone and its signature achieved through listening to it? Isn't that why its recommended to try before you buy? 
   
  Please guys, lets not get defensive and attack each other. There is room for disagreement, but there is none for derogatory, damaging statements. 
   
  ...now that I've had my peace, love, and headphones moment for the day, i think i'll have some turkey day left overs.....and by leftovers, i mean pie


----------



## Docks

cubusmybro said:


> I am having some major troubles with my ODAC. I soldered the line out to the board and plugged the USB audio into my PC. I plugged into the line out and into my O2 but I have no sound. I thought it was just solder and play. Is there anything I'm missing because as of now I have no sound. I have set it up on my PC and it recognizes it and everything, but there is no signal going through the line out. Thanks for the help it would be greatly appreciated.




Did you set this as your default audio device within windows?


----------



## WiR3D

Ironic how people are arguing measurements mean nothing in the ODAC thread


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> It's obvious my statements haven't been sufficiently clear. I will confirm the following.
> 
> 
> The AKG [KQ]70[12] do not "roll-off" low frequencies.
> ...


 
   
  For K70X you can agree that it has less bass in quantity and impact in comparison to other headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (not say "roll off "), for everything else i agree .


----------



## beaver316

wir3d said:


> Ironic how people are arguing measurements mean nothing in the ODAC thread




This thread has lost its way a little.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> This thread has lost its way a little.


 
  Oh yes.


----------



## adydula

ok so enough of the bass rolloff coments on headphones in this thread....go elsewhere to discuss the merits of 701's etc....this is an odac thread...
   
  over and out..
   
  Alex


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





adydula said:


> ok so enough of the bass rolloff coments on headphones in this thread....go elsewhere to discuss the merits of 701's etc....this is an odac thread...


 
   
  It was my fault. I got carried away again, so I guess I'll never learn my lesson. I apologize.
   
  My Thanksgiving holiday ends today. Tomorrow I have to go back to work 
   
  but my ODAC is waiting for me 
   
  and my Black-Friday T70's should arrive in the afternoon.


----------



## adydula

np!!
   
  congrats on the ODAC and the T70's!!
   
  Let us know how they play!
   
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Finally received my ODAC today. It's a lot smaller than i thought it would be! But it's nice. Anyway do you think it may require some burn in?


----------



## audionewbi

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Finally received my ODAC today. It's a lot smaller than i thought it would be! But it's nice. Anyway do you think it may require some burn in?


 
  nope


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





audionewbi said:


> nope


 
   
  Alright thanks!


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Finally received my ODAC today. It's a lot smaller than i thought it would be! But it's nice. Anyway do you think it may require some burn in?


 
  Lolno


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Lolno


 
   
  I had thought so 
   
  Anyway something i noticed with my ODAC, i get clicks when doing other tasks on my pc, like scrolling through web pages. Same problem i had with my fiio E17  It's my laptop and it's bad usb ports. This doesn't happen on my sister's PC. 
   
  Now im wondering what to do. Would a powered usb hub help? JDS labs mentions on their operating instructions to try a powered usb hub if you get "distorted output or harsh treble", maybe that would help with my situation?


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Finally received my ODAC today. It's a lot smaller than i thought it would be! But it's nice. Anyway do you think it may require some burn in?


 
   
  Not a bit.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *beaver316* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Anyway something i noticed with my ODAC, i get clicks when doing other tasks on my pc, like scrolling through web pages. Same problem i had with my fiio E17  It's my laptop and it's bad usb ports. This doesn't happen on my sister's PC.
> 
> Now im wondering what to do. Would a powered usb hub help? JDS labs mentions on their operating instructions to try a powered usb hub if you get "distorted output or harsh treble", maybe that would help with my situation?


 
   
  The clicking sound is due to your laptop's occasional failure to deliver audio data to the USB port on time (i.e., excessive latency.) Your sister's PC may have enough CPU and GPU power that it's never too busy to service the USB data when it should. My Core i3-2100m laptop with integrated, Intel graphics occasionally does the same. My work PC with two, quad-core Xeon CPU's and an NVidia Quadro 600 never, ever does.
   
  Is your ODAC connected directly to the laptop or through a passive hub?
   
*Edit*: It's not a problem with the ODAC.


----------



## adydula

burn in??
   
  no....


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> The clicking sound is due to your laptop's occasional failure to deliver audio data to the USB port on time (i.e., excessive latency.) Your sister's PC may have enough CPU and GPU power that it's never too busy to service the USB data when it should. My Core i3-2100m laptop with integrated, Intel graphics occasionally does the same. My work PC with two, quad-core Xeon CPU's and an NVidia Quadro 600 never, ever does.
> 
> Is your ODAC connected directly to the laptop or through a passive hub?
> 
> *Edit*: It's not a problem with the ODAC.


 
   
  Yes i know it's not a problem with the odac, just my crappy laptop. It's an Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 @ 2.27Ghz, 4 gig ram, WIn 7 64 bit. I suppose that's not good enough. , It's connected directly to the laptop's usb port, no hub. My sister's pc is actually pretty bad too, though not sure of the specs.
   
  Is there anything i can do short of buying a quad core monster to remedy this situation?


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Yes i know it's not a problem with the odac, just my crappy laptop. It's an Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 @ 2.27Ghz, 4 gig ram, WIn 7 64 bit. I suppose that's not good enough. , It's connected directly to the laptop's usb port, no hub. My sister's pc is actually pretty bad too, though not sure of the specs.
> 
> Is there anything i can do short of buying a quad core monster to remedy this situation?


 
   
  Before it the consumer preview crashed my hard drive, the audio driver in Windows 8 was the best I have heard.
   
  Even Pandora Radio was exceptional.
   
  Also, I use an adapter instead of a cable.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


> Before it the consumer preview crashed my hard drive, the audio driver in Windows 8 was the best I have heard.
> 
> Even Pandora Radio was exceptional.
> 
> Also, I use an adapter instead of a cable.


 
   
  I actually vaguely remember my E17 not clicking at all when i was running Linux Mint or Ubuntu. I don't have it on my system anymore though.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The first place to look is to check what's using your CPU. You may be running some services you don't need or some software you're using may not be configured optimally.
   
  However, these are Windows problems and I'm not a sysadmin: following my advice might lead to a non-functional system. I suggest Google.


----------



## call001

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Yes i know it's not a problem with the odac, just my crappy laptop. It's an Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 @ 2.27Ghz, 4 gig ram, WIn 7 64 bit. I suppose that's not good enough. , It's connected directly to the laptop's usb port, no hub. My sister's pc is actually pretty bad too, though not sure of the specs.
> 
> Is there anything i can do short of buying a quad core monster to remedy this situation?


 
   
   
  Your laptop's hardware is definitely good enough ....much more than good enough...
   
  The problem is mostly caused by software..
   
  Try to enlarge the output buffer size in your ASIO or WASAPI settings in Foobar.....if we are lucky enough , maybe solve the problem....
   
   
  Good luck!


----------



## beaver316

I tried that earlier, in Foobar that doesn't change anything, but funnily in J River Media center changing the Output buffer to "Minumum hardware size" seems to help tremendously. Not completely gone but far less frequent. Will do more testing and report back.
   
  edit: that didn't last long, some serious stutter with that setting.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> The clicking sound is due to your laptop's occasional failure to deliver audio data to the USB port on time (i.e., excessive latency.) Your sister's PC may have enough CPU and GPU power that it's never too busy to service the USB data when it should. My Core i3-2100m laptop with integrated, Intel graphics occasionally does the same. My work PC with two, quad-core Xeon CPU's and an NVidia Quadro 600 never, ever does.
> 
> Is your ODAC connected directly to the laptop or through a passive hub?
> 
> *Edit*: It's not a problem with the ODAC.


 
   
  HamilcarBarca is describing DPC latency, which is definitely worth investigating. High latency will cause clicks and stuttering.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> HamilcarBarca is describing DPC latency, which is definitely worth investigating. High latency will cause clicks and stuttering.


 
   
  Thanks for posting jseaber. I've been reading about DCP latency earlier today and last night, and i actually ran that exact same software. It seems i get overall low latency with some random spikes.
   
   

   
  I noticed that i hear clicks and pops even when the latency reading is below 500 microsecond (green). I even managed to get some huge red spikes which i didn't screen cap, can't reproduce it now though. The problem is most likely high latency, but now i don't know how to go about solving this.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





jseaber said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, John. I have many years experience with computer communications and exactly zero with USB. Now I know how to learn more.
   
  I like my JDS Labs' ODAC+O2 and I recommend it here (over and over.)


----------



## beaver316

I may have made a breakthrough with my problem, more to come shortly.


----------



## beaver316

Yep after further tests i have indeed found the cause of the problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It is my ATI graphic driver. I have it disabled right now, and despite the fact that im running 800x600 lag-fest with no window animation, audio is playing pop free. I've tested five songs and so far not one click. Enabling the graphic driver once again introduces the problem.
   
  I will need to find a compromise though because frankly I cannot use my computer in this state. I'll give Microsoft's ATI driver a try, Sony's one is clearly poop.


----------



## adydula

In Jriver you can run benchmarks from Help ----->benchmark to get perf data on your pc.
   
  You can also post in the interact forum at Jriver for some help or to at least see if your Jriver benchmark is up to 'snuff'....
   
  I had popping and clicking on some files..after many hours of troubleshooting it was the actual flac files themselves that were corrupt and cauing the skips..
  re-ripped and problem was solved.
   
  On an older Gateway system I can get an occaisional pop or click if i am listening and browsing....solution here was to stop browsing and listen!!
   
  lol
   
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Nice!! Ati....is your graphics an adapter in a slot on the mboard or integrated in the CPU?
   
  If its a card well...thats an easy fix....find an old GForce 460 card.....its an oldie but still a price performer, i use 2 in SLI...
   
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Nice!! Ati....is your graphics an adapter in a slot on the mboard or integrated in the CPU?
> 
> If its a card well...thats an easy fix....find an old GForce 460 card.....its an oldie but still a price performer, i use 2 in SLI...
> 
> Alex


 
   
  I am running a laptop so it is integrated unfortunately. ATI laptop drivers have always been a headache since they're unsupported altogether. Im forced to run modded drivers so im forced to read up on it, it's been a few years since i ran modded ATI drivers.


----------



## gnarlsagan

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I am running a laptop so it is integrated unfortunately. ATI laptop drivers have always been a headache since they're unsupported altogether. Im forced to run modded drivers so im forced to read up on it, it's been a few years since i ran modded ATI drivers.


 
   
  I also run modded ATI drivers. Nowadays though they are supported without too much modification, so there are less bugs ime. For example, the drivers are written with all of the necessary information to support laptops, but laptop manufacturers don't allow it, so an ATI driver will be missing one line of code, "S8842" for example. A modder will add the lines to support tons of laptops and they are then supported. I used to have the same issue you have and it hasn't been a problem for a long time.


----------



## samwell7

My odac came today! I'm at work though so I've gotta wait til I get home  
Really excited to test it with my K702's and mobitors.
Will post my thoughts if I get time tonight


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





gnarlsagan said:


> I also run modded ATI drivers. Nowadays though they are supported without too much modification, so there are less bugs ime. For example, the drivers are written with all of the necessary information to support laptops, but laptop manufacturers don't allow it, so an ATI driver will be missing one line of code, "S8842" for example. A modder will add the lines to support tons of laptops and they are then supported. I used to have the same issue you have and it hasn't been a problem for a long time.


 
   
  Yeah you are correct, they installed fine without modding. Quite surprising that ATI supports mobile all of a sudden. I'll post an update on the situation later.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Yeah you are correct, they installed fine without modding. Quite surprising that ATI supports mobile all of a sudden. I'll post an update on the situation later.


 
  Not really all of a sudden, they spent the last 2~3 years really fixing their drivers, on desktop and mobile, nowadays it often gives less issues then nvidea. Shocker hey


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Not really all of a sudden, they spent the last 2~3 years really fixing their drivers, on desktop and mobile, nowadays it often gives less issues then nvidea. Shocker hey


 
   
  Haha yeah. I haven't really bothered to update my graphic drivers in the last few years. I gave up cause my vaio has such a terrible graphic chip anyway.
   
  Anyway i installed the latest drvier successfully, but unfortunately it has not solved the problem. I still get clicks but far less than before. I could actually live with it like this but i won't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Perhaps Windows Aero is to blame. Let me mess with those settings a little.


----------



## djvkool

hi guys - can the O2+ODAC be powered from the USB, or must I use the seperate power adaptor?
   
  Thanks


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





djvkool said:


> hi guys - can the O2+ODAC be powered from the USB, or must I use the seperate power adaptor?
> 
> Thanks


 
  depends with what. Not with a phone.
   
  But yes with a PC if you get the O2 with a battery. 
   
  I would not do it with a laptop because of the ****ty power supply.


----------



## djvkool

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> depends with what. Not with a phone.
> 
> But yes with a PC if you get the O2 with a battery.
> 
> I would not do it with a laptop because of the ****ty power supply.


 
   
  Yep planning to use it exclusively for PC, and not portable/laptop.
   
  So if that is the case, I won't need the seperate power adaptor?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





djvkool said:


> Yep planning to use it exclusively for PC, and not portable/laptop.
> 
> So if that is the case, I won't need the seperate power adaptor?


 
  Not if you get the O2 with the batteries.


----------



## adydula

The O2 can run off of just batteries, but they have to be charged so you will need an AC to AC adapter.
   
  Unless you want to take the batteries out and charge then externally...a real pain.
   
  The ODAC is powered from the USB buss power in a pc.
   
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The ODAC can run off of just batteries, but they have to be charged so you will need an AC to AC adapter.
> 
> Unless you want to take the batteries out and charge then externally...a real pain.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The way you wrote that makes it seem like the ODAC has batteries, which it doesn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Oh and an update to my situation. I've solved the clicking problem altogether i think. I changed the colour quality to Medium (16 bit) rather than the default High (32 bit) in ATI Control Center. Of course the display isn't as good as before, gradients aren't smooth any more, Windows aero is disabled, but I can live with this.
   
  Sorry for taking up so much of the discussion this past couple of days. Hopefully this may be of some help to newcomers with similar problems. Now back to music listening!


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> depends with what. Not with a phone.
> 
> But yes with a PC if you get the O2 with a battery.
> 
> I would not do it with a laptop because of the ****ty power supply.


 
   
  1) some phones can power the odac

 2) laptops almost always have cleaner power than desktops
  
  Quote: 





djvkool said:


> Yep planning to use it exclusively for PC, and not portable/laptop.
> 
> So if that is the case, I won't need the seperate power adaptor?


 
   
  You still need one to charge the O2.
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> The ODAC can run off of just batteries, but they have to be charged so you will need an AC to AC adapter.
> 
> Unless you want to take the batteries out and charge then externally...a real pain.
> 
> ...


 
  The O2 runs off batteries*


----------



## SupR-Pinou

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   
    
  I received the ODAC yesterday ; my feedback after some listening (compared to an Asus xonar essence ST) :

 The DAC is very transparent : no sound coloring whatsoever
 Instruments separation & soundstage are better
 Dynamics are, like the previous point, better
   
  Since i'm new in the audiophile world i'll keep the feedback short (if you want any kind of precision just ask) but but i'm currently in love with my brand new ODAC!!


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





djvkool said:


> hi guys - can the O2+ODAC be powered from the USB, or must I use the seperate power adaptor?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  The Standalone ODAC is powered by USB.
   
  The Standalone O2 can by powered by two, 9V, rechargeable batteries or a separate A/C transformer.
   
  The O2+ODAC Combo requires a separate A/C transformer.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> 1) some phones can power the odac
> 
> 2) laptops almost always have cleaner power than desktops
> 
> ...


 
  1) yes but not well (100mA limit on mobile devices. ODAC requires 125mA)
  2) Beg to differ, laptops have such varying quality in the USB ports its disgusting, ASUS and HP seem to be fine, but especially older laptops or cheaper ones really do such. PC's are not immune, but are a lot less effected.


----------



## adydula

thanks for that....i edited my post..meant to say O2 can run off just batteries....
   
  The ODAC requiring 125 ma....USB 2.0 Spec is 500ma total avail, if implemented to spec.
   
  I actually measured the current draw and it was only 50ma...
   
  Alex
   
  Take a read here at Texas Instruments: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt118/slyt118.pdf


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> 1) yes but not well (100mA limit on mobile devices. ODAC requires 125mA)
> 2) Beg to differ, laptops have such varying quality in the USB ports its disgusting, ASUS and HP seem to be fine, but especially older laptops or cheaper ones really do such. PC's are not immune, but are a lot less effected.


 
  1) what adydula says

 2) Laptops have better cleaner power going into them.. Not necessarily coming out of them. That's all up to the implementation


----------



## Uberbob102000

chrislangley4253 said:


> 1) what adydula says
> 
> 
> 2) Laptops have better cleaner power going into them.. Not necessarily coming out of them. That's all up to the implementation




It's the morning and I may be off here, but why would a laptop have cleaner power than any decent rig? I know my desktop PSU probably puts out cleaner DC than the power adapter with my laptop.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





uberbob102000 said:


> It's the morning and I may be off here, but why would a laptop have cleaner power than any decent rig? I know my desktop PSU probably puts out cleaner DC than the power adapter with my laptop.


 
  *sigh* 

 Measure it if you don't believe me guys. I know the burden of proof is on me, but, I really don't care what you guys believe. Also, I could very well be mistaken.. You know what, that would be easiest for everyone. I'm wrong, desktop PSU's provide cleaner power. I take back what I said.


----------



## Uberbob102000

chrislangley4253 said:


> *sigh*
> 
> 
> Measure it if you don't believe me guys. I know the burden of proof is on me, but, I really don't care what you guys believe. Also, I could very well be mistaken.. You know what, that would be easiest for everyone. I'm wrong, desktop PSU's provide cleaner power. I take back what I said.




Haha no, you may very well be right!  I was just curious as to what would inherently make it better. I guess when you consider the complete garbage PSU units that most desktop PCs ship with that's probably true.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

The O2 and C421 is another level up, but does the E11 (or cMoy) compete well, both with the ODAC, especially with DT770 80/250 ohms? Or is the difference really extremely noticeable and enough to justify a $100 upgrade for the amps?


----------



## call001

Quote: 





supr-pinou said:


> >


 
   
   
  To *SupR-Pinou:*
   
*Thanks a lot.*


----------



## samwell7

After a few days with my ODAC + o2 I think i'm ready to post.

 The very first time I listened I thought I knew what everybody was talking about with this 'Crazy Treble' (I was using K702's) and the treble seemed harsh and very in my face, I then changed USB ports and it sounded fine,although I then put it back into the same USB port as the first time and it again, sounded fine, which confused me a bit. 
  I discovered that the problem was merely my ears/brain.  I first of all hadn't listened to my K702's for a while and secondly had the volume much louder than I usually listen thus giving me this completely different representation of the DAC with super loud treble, although after some listening of familiar tracks I am very very pleased with this DAC.
   
  It really is super-clear, I am re-discovering further elements in tracks that I couldn't quite pick out before (was previously using the headphone out on my Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 into the o2 Amp) and the instrument seperation is even better than before.
   
  For the money I really couldn't be happier with this DAC, does exactly what it's supposed to, faithfully convert a digital signal into an analog one.
   
  I'm yet to try it with my monitor speakers but if I do soon I'll post it here.

 P.S this may be a bit off topic, but when I'm using ableton live with my NI komplete audio 6 it lets me use it under an ASIO driver so it has very low latency, but when I use the ODAC I have to use it as MME/DIRECT X driver type giving annoying latency, anybody know how to fix?


----------



## mnarwold

I'm finding the ODAC a very intriguing little device, but I have some questions. I've done some searching and reading (although I only read about the first 20 pages of this thread, so if the answer is there, I apologize), but I haven't found the answers.
   
  Is the ODAC asynchronous?
  I've read that it out performs the hrt msii and some people say it even is better than the msii +, but has anyone compared it to the hrt headstreamer?
  Has anyone read how this compares to the Musiland Monitor 02/Dragon US?
   
  I have the Headstreamer and am looking for an upgrade, but wouldn't want to spend the money on the dac and an amp if the audible sq gain is only minimal.
  I'm using woody Grado 225i.
   
  Thanks
  Matt


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





mnarwold said:


> I'm finding the ODAC a very intriguing little device, but I have some questions. I've done some searching and reading (although I only read about the first 20 pages of this thread, so if the answer is there, I apologize), but I haven't found the answers.
> 
> Is the ODAC asynchronous?


 
   
   
  It is not.


----------



## Aldyrin

Can anyone comment on the ODAC that has used the Alien DAC v1.1 before?  I'm considering upgrading, but would like to know their relative performance pros/cons.


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


> It is not.


 

 Thanks for the info. Apparently people don't think it makes that big a deal since they're rating it higher than dacs that do have asynchronous.


----------



## samwell7

mnarwold said:


> Thanks for the info. Apparently people don't think it makes that big a deal since they're rating it higher than dacs that do have asynchronous.



I think in one of the original blog posts about the odac he describes why it doesn't need to be asynchronous. I think he may go into depth as to why it isn't super important


----------



## stv014

Basically, the argument against asynchronous USB is that it is not required for reducing jitter to inaudible levels, and chips that support it would currently require proprietary drivers on Windows (in addition to there being fewer choices at higher prices, and more restrictive licensing).


----------



## adydula

No its not asynchronous....
   
  Alex


----------



## neogeosnk

I have an odac/amp unit and was wondering if the amplification of the amp will distort external speakers. Basically is there a volume setting or switch on the device that bypasses the internal amp? Or do I have to just buy an odac by itself for that purpose? I have the headphone out connected to a pair of audio engine 5's and the odac/amp sounds like crap. This is connected to powered USB hub running foobar in wasapi mode.


----------



## stv014

The O2 does not really distort the sound in an audible way if you set the gain and volume correctly for using it as a line buffer. Ideally, you would want 1x gain and maximum volume. If you do not have 1x gain, and do not need 6.5x (it normally should not be used with the ODAC, unless you control the volume on the PC), then it is possible to turn the 6.5x gain mode into 1x by clipping two resistors. With the default 2.5x gain, you may need to reduce the volume so that the output voltage of the O2 does not cause clipping in the input stage of your speaker amplifier.


----------



## skamp

stv014 said:


> it normally should not be used with the ODAC, unless you control the volume on the PC




Just to be clear, that includes using a subtractive EQ, Replaygain, and generally any DSP that reduces volume.


----------



## stv014

I meant that setting the 6.5x gain with the ODAC requires lowering the volume on the PC, because otherwise the 6.5 * 2 = 13 Vrms full scale voltage will cause the gain stage of the O2 to clip. But using the high gain normally only makes sense to get the last few dB of power out of very hard to drive headphones, or if the digital signal played is very quiet and never gets even close to 0 dBFS.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





mnarwold said:


> I'm finding the ODAC a very intriguing little device, but I have some questions. I've done some searching and reading (although I only read about the first 20 pages of this thread, so if the answer is there, I apologize), but I haven't found the answers.
> 
> Is the ODAC asynchronous?
> I've read that it out performs the hrt msii and some people say it even is better than the msii +, but has anyone compared it to the hrt headstreamer?
> ...


 
  It's not async
   
  I don't think you'll hear much of a difference given your headphones, to be honest. Even with more resolving headphones.. You probably wouldn't hear much of a difference, but if you want to upgrade, go for it.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The O2 does not really distort the sound in an audible way if you set the gain and volume correctly for using it as a line buffer. Ideally, you would want 1x gain and maximum volume. If you do not have 1x gain, and do not need 6.5x (it normally should not be used with the ODAC, unless you control the volume on the PC), then it is possible to turn the 6.5x gain mode into 1x by clipping two resistors. With the default 2.5x gain, you may need to reduce the volume so that the output voltage of the O2 does not cause clipping in the input stage of your speaker amplifier.


 
  R19 and R23 are the resistors you clip to drop the gain


----------



## adydula

mnarwold...
   
  I have the HRT MSii and HRT MSii + and the ODAC.
   
  Comparing them they all sound very good....it would be hard to tell them apart...
   
  Alex


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





adydula said:


> mnarwold...
> 
> I have the HRT MSii and HRT MSii + and the ODAC.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info. I'm taking the leap and selling my head streamer and getting the ODAC and probably the O2, but I'm not totally decided on the amp yet. I wish it were dual voltage. I'll have to pay a little extra and get a power converter since I do a lot of traveling.


----------



## adydula

Fyi...
   
  The only real difference that I have noticed is the HRT USB dacs have a higher output voltage...ie some say this is running 'hotter' so when you do a compairison
  it seems like there is a difference but if you level match the volumes the differences dissappear...I wish I had a dime for the number of times I have gone back and forth between
  these dacs.....they all are really good....and then when you consider the price...its almost a no brainer....
   
  Good luck in your choice!
   
  Alex


----------



## nick_charles

Quote: 





uloginhd said:


> [size=10pt]I have a MSii here, and I agree that it sounds very good. Indeed, it sounds so good (faultless) that I  doubt I can tell it apart from my DACport (if level matched).[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]But that brings up a question that has been bothering me: HRT MS measures very badly according to Stereophile measurements. Don’t think Stereophile got a bad unit, though, cause MS pro also measures badly. On the other hand, the measurements of DACport are all good.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]So should I trust objective evidence like Stereophile measurements (DACport > HRT) or subjective experience (DACport = HRT)?[/size]


 
   
  Here is a possibility to chew over. That performance of even modest digital kit may have reached a level where the mediocre measurements still show a level of audio quality that we as humans may be broadly incapable of telling apart from rather more superior measuring kit. This being the case it makes no sense (except for obsessive compulsive purposes) to purchase boutique kit whose *only differentiation* from cheaper kit is stellar measurements. The measurements on the base model HRT are truly dismal (in modern terms) but probably still better than the performance we lived with (grudgingly in my case) in the vinyl days !
   
  The question of what levels of performance we really can tell apart reliably is a question for somewhere else...


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





nick_charles said:


> Here is a possibility to chew over. That performance of even modest digital kit may have reached a level where the mediocre measurements still show a level of audio quality that we as humans may be broadly incapable of telling apart from rather more superior measuring kit. This being the case it makes no sense (except for obsessive compulsive purposes) to purchase boutique kit whose *only differentiation* from cheaper kit is stellar measurements. The measurements on the base model HRT are truly dismal (in modern terms) but probably still better than the performance we lived with (grudgingly in my case) in the vinyl days !
> 
> The question of what levels of performance we really can tell apart reliably is a question for somewhere else...


 

 This is the difficulty in shopping for equipment that, for the most part, you can't really demo yourself. Audio is so subjective and what one person says about a unit isn't what someone else says. So, we all start to look for objective ways to rate things (measurements), but it seems a little like they don't tell a perfect story either. I'm interested in the ODAC not just because of the measurements, but also because of the reviews and I like NwAvGuy's methodology in creating it. Now I just need to sell my HRT Headstreamer to get the extra cash to afford the ODAC and an amp. $100, any takers?


----------



## adydula

If the measurements are taken appropriately...and they are indeed beyond the human ear and or brain to tell the difference I agree.
   
  The reason the O2 amp  and ODAC really perked my intrest is that it was specifically designed to meet or exceed all the measurements that if not met would possibly be heard by the human ear etc....
   
  For the first time here is a design that touts that objectively....at least I know the measurements for all these things are indeed inaudible and undetectable by our human hearing apparatus....

 The fact the non-exotic parts are being used....in a very good electrical engineering design....adds icing to my 'cake'.
   
  The designer did take great pains to measure the affects of parts, parts placements etc....all good here.
   
  I would not part with my HRT Dacs or the ODAC.....
   
  Back to the music..
   
  Alex


----------



## SurfWax

Having thought about the ODAC, ibasso D7, D6, D12, Fiio E17, UD100, Hifimediy Sabre USB, and HRT II, and gone through multiple "decisions", I'm finally settled on the ODAC as my first DAC. Like for reals this time lol, will be getting it soon. Came down to the ODAC and HRT, but since they're so similar by all the reviews and impressions, I'll take the ODAC's form factor!


----------



## mnarwold

Well I just sold my HRT Headstreamer to get the ODAC and O2 (in separate housings). If I had more money I would have kept the HRT for more portable applications, like an airplane, but I have my iPod for portable. Unfortunately, I had to ship my HRT today and I won't get my ODAC and O2 until this weekend


----------



## adydula

mnarwold,
   
  Congrats on your purchase, I am sure you will like the O2 and ODAC.
   
  They never stop amazing me how well they do what they do....simply and very neutral and transparent..
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





adydula said:


> mnarwold,
> 
> Congrats on your purchase, I am sure you will like the O2 and ODAC.
> 
> ...


 
   


 Thanks. I'll post my impressions once I get them, unfortunately I won't be able to do a direct comparison to the Headstreamer.


----------



## adydula

Cool,
   
  If its really hard, difficult or a real stretch or strain to hear differences.....its telling us that the stuff we have is pretty good as far as what technology is delivering....for dacs etc..
   
  So if they are so close then the cost becomes even more important to many of us.
   
  If there were real order of magnitude differences that could be 'easliy' and 'factually' discerned then the cost of 'that' stuff might make me want to "ante" up some what...
   
  I find with the dacs I have and having listened to dacs and amps that cost much more there is no real reason to do a "cost" upgrade except for my 'ego'.....and having some really nice looking gear....(
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....
   
  So to me the O2 and ODAC fit in my world nicely, and are very affordable......and provide world class performance.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## mnarwold

Agreed, if there is little no sonic difference, than get the cheapest thing in the performance bracket. I'm hoping that the ODAC O2 combo sounds better than my headstreamer, since it costs a little more than twice as much and takes up more space. I'm hoping that I won't need to upgrade for a very long time, except for possibly buying a tube amp to play with.


----------



## mac336

has anyone compared the ODAC to the Schiit Modi?


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> has anyone compared the ODAC to the Schiit Modi?


 
   
  May I ask what differences you expect?
   
  The ODAC is designed to be a transparent DAC. If the designer succeeded, any audible difference between the two would reflect distortion in the Modi.
   
  For the record, the ODAC's performance measurements show it is audibly transparent. It's just there. In that sense, it's boring and I've been recommending it for exactly that reason. But maybe that isn't what you want.


----------



## mac336

I have an ODAC and love it.  Just wondering if the Modi is on par, thus giving me a cheaper, more aesthetically pleasing DAC to keep in my other room


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> I have an ODAC and love it.  Just wondering if the Modi is on par, thus giving me a cheaper, more aesthetically pleasing DAC to keep in my other room


 
   
  When I a $500 million Lotto prize, I'm gonna get me a Benchmark DAC1 or Grace M903. Unfortunately, they're both too big for my cubicle at work, so I'll have to find a better job, too!


----------



## adydula

Ha! This is funny...if i had enough money I too would probably buy several high end amps and dacs just to really, really see if they are as good as the owners who opine so much about their wonderfulness....but for us mere mortals living day to day on a budget...the lowly O2 and ODAC will have to suffice!!
   
  lol
   
  Alex


----------



## SurfWax

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> I have an ODAC and love it.  Just wondering if the Modi is on par, thus giving me a cheaper, more aesthetically pleasing DAC to keep in my other room


 
  I know I was set to get the ODAC in about 3 weeks, but nottttt anymoreeeeeeee, hellooooo Modi


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> When I a $500 million Lotto prize, I'm gonna get me a Benchmark DAC1 or Grace M903. Unfortunately, they're both too big for my cubicle at work, *so I'll have to find a better job, too!*


 
   
  Must be a self-defeating fruedian slip, you left out the word "win".
   
  With that kind of dosh I sure wouldn't be wasting my time working in a job, much less _looking for one. Ha-Ha!_


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





surfwax said:


> I know I was set to get the ODAC in about 3 weeks, but nottttt anymoreeeeeeee, hellooooo Modi


 

 This certainly looks interesting. The measurements aren't as good as the ODAC, but the biggest thing is sound, and this is to new to have reviews. Let us know what you think when you get it.


----------



## SurfWax

For sure, though I'm certain reviews will be up before I'm able to get mine (first week of Jan)


----------



## chrislangley4253

I've been having some issues with my ODAC.. I have to rule out the USB port and the cable, but after a while I start getting some pretty serious distortion and I have to unplug and replug the cable, which fixes it.. But, only for a while.

 I moved it to my other usb 3.0 port, if it still keeps it up then, I'll track down another cable and rule that out next.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I've been having some issues with my ODAC.. I have to rule out the USB port and the cable, but after a while I start getting some pretty serious distortion and I have to unplug and replug the cable, which fixes it.. But, only for a while.
> 
> I moved it to my other usb 3.0 port, if it still keeps it up then, I'll track down another cable and rule that out next.


 
   
  How long do you leave it unplugged? Might it be overheating?


----------



## beaver316

I really doubt his odac overheats. I keep mine on all day and it's ice cold right now.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I really doubt his odac overheats. I keep mine on all day and it's ice cold right now.


 
   
  It only uses a little power if it's working properly. But if disconnecting the power source "for a while" alleviates the problem "for a while", overheating is a possibility. It was just a suggestion. Overall, I agree with your doubt.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> How long do you leave it unplugged? Might it be overheating?


 
  Definitely not overheating. I unplug it for half a second, if that. It did it on the other usb 3.0 port.. So I moved it to a 2.0 port, so far, no problems. 

 I'm thinking it might be a driver problem of some sort.. my ODAC is called ODAC - 6 now.. Lol, when I moved it to the 2.0 port it reinstalled the drivers. So maybe that'll fix it.


----------



## lorriman

chrislangley4253 said:


> I've been having some issues with my ODAC.. I have to rule out the USB port and the cable, but after a while I start getting some pretty serious distortion and I have to unplug and replug the cable, which fixes it.. But, only for a while.




Just on the off-chance: you do have it plugged in to an amp? You aren't plugging your phones directly in to the linout of the ODAC?

I know this is unlikely but all possibilities need covering.


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Definitely not overheating. I unplug it for half a second, if that. It did it on the other usb 3.0 port.. So I moved it to a 2.0 port, so far, no problems.
> 
> I'm thinking it might be a driver problem of some sort.. my ODAC is called ODAC - 6 now.. Lol, when I moved it to the 2.0 port it reinstalled the drivers. So maybe that'll fix it.


 
  I'm on 11-ODAC now, mostly just from moving everything around though


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





lorriman said:


> Just on the off-chance: you do have it plugged in to an amp? You aren't plugging your phones directly in to the linout of the ODAC?
> I know this is unlikely but all possibilities need covering.


 
  LOLNO, I have an O2.


----------



## 2000impreza

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I've been having some issues with my ODAC.. I have to rule out the USB port and the cable, but after a while I start getting some pretty serious distortion and I have to unplug and replug the cable, which fixes it.. But, only for a while.
> 
> I moved it to my other usb 3.0 port, if it still keeps it up then, I'll track down another cable and rule that out next.


 
   
   
  Have you tried hooking the ODAC to a usb hub with a external power supply? I previously had similar problems with a usb powered DAC. The cause of the problem was dirty USB power supply from my laptop. After hooking up the DAC to a externally powered hub, I never had the problem again.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





2000impreza said:


> Have you tried hooking the ODAC to a usb hub with a external power supply? I previously had similar problems with a usb powered DAC. The cause of the problem was dirty USB power supply from my laptop. After hooking up the DAC to a externally powered hub, I never had the problem again.


 
   
  Im really considering a USB hub to use with my ODAC for different reasons. Which would you recommend? It seems all amazon listings have a fair amount of bad reviews.


----------



## adydula

http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-7U2ML.html
   
http://www.cooldrives.com/7-port-usb-2-hub.html
   
http://www.amazon.com/Metal-7-Port-Powered-PC-MAC-Adapter/dp/B004ESP144/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355501056&sr=8-1&keywords=USBG-7U2ML


----------



## chrislangley4253

haven't had any problems since I moved to usb 2.0. I have no idea why it was giving me problems, to be honest.


----------



## Yumyums30

I'm considering getting this, lot's of positive talk about it too so it's on the top of my list at the moment for DACs


----------



## FlySweep

yumyums30 said:


> I'm considering getting this, lot's of positive talk about it too so it's on the top of my list at the moment for DACs


 
   
  I've got my ODAC paired with the Leckerton UHA-6S MKII (OPA209 opamp).. and it's stunning.  Both are in black cases.. so it _looks_ as sleek & lethal as it sounds.  I'm amazed at the dynamic range & resolving ability this little rig possess.. an absolute _beast_ considering the price & size.


----------



## Pojosama

I sold my creative soundblaster x-fi HD and ordered an ODAC. This is definitely as far as I'm willing to go for something like an amp and DAC, so hopefully I'll hear a difference. I certainly did with the Creative, but you never really get rid of that nagging suspicion that there is something better out there. I've read NWAVGUY's blog from start to finish, so I'm confident in it.

: )


----------



## tofu

while using WASAPI, should I be adjusting volume via foobar or through the sound mixer (win8)? or does it not matter?

or would the best solution be to buy a passive analog attenuator?


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





tofu said:


> while using WASAPI, should I be adjusting volume via foobar or through the sound mixer (win8)? or does it not matter?
> or would the best solution be to buy a passive analog attenuator?


 
  100% volume with the software all over and adjust the volume only with the external amp.
   
  WASAPI is exclusive also, so the shared mode of Windows 8 is irrelevant.


----------



## chrislangley4253

You can adjust the volume with foobar or windows mixer without doing any harm. The ODAC is 24 bit, so you run no risk of dropping the noise floor enough to make it audible by using software volume control. The ODAC was made 24 bit for this exact reason.


----------



## mikeaj

nevermind, ^ got it above


----------



## tofu

chrislangley4253 said:


> You can adjust the volume with foobar or windows mixer without doing any harm. The ODAC is 24 bit, so you run no risk of dropping the noise floor enough to make it audible by using software volume control. The ODAC was made 24 bit for this exact reason.




thanks. much easier to adjust from windows volume for me (foobar volume control would leave everything else blaring loud). 

unfortunately I can't control the volume physically with a knob from my desk. every channel has its own level with my amp/crossover setup. I was considering buying a pre-amp or passive attenuator, but digital is definitely cheaper, and probably cleaner

too bad there isn't a wireless version of this griffin knob!


----------



## tofu

hamburgerladdy said:


> 100% volume with the software all over and adjust the volume only with the external amp.
> 
> WASAPI is exclusive also, so the shared mode of Windows 8 is irrelevant.




can't control with my amp's knob. I'm not running a headphone setup. i'd have to adjust 3 volume knobs if i were to do it this way (left, right, sub)


----------



## elektrosteve

I received the ODAC some weeks ago and I love this thing! It beats the E17 dac easily. Like the people say, great resolution, great soundstage, great dynamics.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





tofu said:


> thanks. much easier to adjust from windows volume for me (foobar volume control would leave everything else blaring loud).
> unfortunately I can't control the volume physically with a knob from my desk. every channel has its own level with my amp/crossover setup. I was considering buying a pre-amp or passive attenuator, but digital is definitely cheaper, and probably cleaner
> too bad there isn't a wireless version of this griffin knob!


 
  I have a similar problem when using my speakers.. I considered a passive pre too, until I researched and found out that software volume control was harmless at 24 bit.

 Nwavguy suggests playing some music with your pc volume all the way up and then turning up your amp as high as you'd ever want it (maybe just a touch more in case) and then using software volume control from there. In situations like ours, anyways.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I have a similar problem when using my speakers.. I considered a passive pre too, until I researched and found out that software volume control was harmless at 24 bit.


 
   
  This is a myth. Software volume control is not harmless. It's theoretically correct for an ideal DAC with perfect 24 bit resolution, but for a practical device, you have to work from 0dB and consider what the device's actual resolution is, because digital attenuation throws away the high order bits first, not the low order bits. 
   
  At full scale, the ODAC has 0.0029% THD+N, which means the noise and distortion floor is at -90.7dB. It's irrelevant that the dynamic range is higher than this, unless one believes that dynamic range is more important than distortion. When you digitally attenuate by 40dB (fairly common), you're producing a device whose noise and distortion floor is now at only -50.7dB. This is in the realm of low quality tube amp territory, and will be definitely audible.
   
  You can even see this on the graphs on NWAVGuy's site. I realize NWAVGuy makes his recommendation because he believes distortion below 0.1% (-60dB) is inaudible, but he has never given any support for that assertion and it is not consistent with the academic evidence from listener tests, by a wide margin. See, e.g., this peer-reviewed publication: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2962  (0.003% is -90.4dB)
   
  The only advantages you get from digital attenuation are lower crosstalk and better inter-channel matching. But the tradeoffs in terms of distortion are not worth it.


----------



## tofu

moonunit said:


> This is a myth. Software volume control is not harmless. It's theoretically correct for an ideal DAC with perfect 24 bit resolution, but for a practical device, you have to work from 0dB and consider what the device's actual resolution is, because digital attenuation throws away the high order bits first, not the low order bits.
> 
> At full scale, the ODAC has 0.0029% THD+N, which means the noise and distortion floor is at -90.7dB. It's irrelevant that the dynamic range is higher than this, unless one believes that dynamic range is more important than distortion.
> When you digitally attenuate by 40dB (fairly common), you're producing a device whose noise and distortion floor is now at only -50.7dB. This is in the realm of low quality tube amp territory, and will be definitely audible.
> ...




so, for argument's sake, you would suggest a passive attenuator?


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





tofu said:


> so, for argument's sake, you would suggest a passive attenuator?


 
   
  It depends. How long of cable are you driving? What is the input impedance of your amplifier?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Okay, I meant to say relatively harmless.. Lol

 I'm not suggesting using digital attenuation is completely harmless, but I *am* suggesting that in most situations it shouldn't make any substantial, audible difference. Especially when using a properly implemented 24-bit DAC.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> This is a myth. Software volume control is not harmless. It's theoretically correct for an ideal DAC with perfect 24 bit resolution, but for a practical device, you have to work from 0dB and consider what the device's actual resolution is, because digital attenuation throws away the high order bits first, not the low order bits.


 
   
  That is nonsense. If digital attenuation would throw away the highest order bits first, the result would sound extremely distorted and almost like white noise. Additionally, properly implemented attenuation dithers the final 24-bit integer result, and does not just throw bits away.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MoonUnit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> At full scale, the ODAC has 0.0029% THD+N, which means the noise and distortion floor is at -90.7dB. It's irrelevant that the dynamic range is higher than this, unless one believes that dynamic range is more important than distortion. When you digitally attenuate by 40dB (fairly common), you're producing a device whose noise and distortion floor is now at only -50.7dB. This is in the realm of low quality tube amp territory, and will be definitely audible.


 
    
  You are assuming that the absolute level of distortion remains constant, but that is false. Check the dynamic range measurement graph, with the -60 dBFS input, the distortion products drop to not much higher than -130 dBFS. Additionally, if you digitally attenuate by 40 dB (which is a rather high amount, by the way), you also make the sound overall much quieter, and thus the distortion/noise at the same THD+N will be more difficult to hear. If the absolute noise level is below the hearing threshold at full volume, then reducing the digital volume will not make it audible, even if the dynamic range is reduced, because at low volume the dynamic range of hearing is reduced, too.
  In fact, many DACs have increased distortion with signal levels near 0 dBFS, or clip peaks that would go above 0 dBFS after the digital filter. Therefore, a few dB of software attenuation can even reduce distortion.
   
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoonUnit* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You can even see this on the graphs on NWAVGuy's site. I realize NWAVGuy makes his recommendation because he believes distortion below 0.1% (-60dB) is inaudible, but he has never given any support for that assertion and it is not consistent with the academic evidence from listener tests, by a wide margin. See, e.g., this peer-reviewed publication: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=2962  (0.003% is -90.4dB)


 
   
  He does not claim that distortion below 0.1% is inaudible, the recommended maximum is actually 0.01%. It is also difficult to comment on your peer reviewed publication - which refers specifically to one type of distortion, high frequency IMD, and may not even be relevant to the topic of digital volume control - without having access to its contents, and knowing the details would be important. Many old publications have also been proven wrong later, after unexpected flaws in the methodology were discovered (e.g. distorting tweeters making ultrasound "audible", etc.). Fishing in old papers, one could find something to support just about any agenda.
   
  But if you give a link to some music of your choice, I can create for you a recording that goes through -20 dB digital attenuation and a D/A-A/D loop, and you can compare that to the original in a level matched software ABX test with whatever gear you have, and see if you can tell the difference at a realistic loudness (not more than 90 dB peak SPL because the sound is supposed to be attenuated, after all, so full volume would be a deafening 110 dB).


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I'm not suggesting using digital attenuation is completely harmless, but I *am* suggesting that in most situations it shouldn't make any substantial, audible difference. Especially when using a properly implemented 24-bit DAC.


 
   
  I would encourage you to test that assumption, as it is not consistent with the academic literature on distortion audibility.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> That is nonsense. If digital attenuation would throw away the highest order bits first, the result would sound extremely distorted and almost like white noise. Additionally, properly implemented attenuation dithers the final 24-bit integer result, and does not just throw bits away.
> 
> 
> He does not claim that distortion below 0.1% is inaudible, the recommended maximum is actually 0.01%. It is also difficult to comment on your peer reviewed publication - which refers specifically to one type of distortion, high frequency IMD, and may not even be relevant to the topic of digital volume control - without having access to its contents, and knowing the details would be important. Many old publications have also been proven wrong later, after unexpected flaws in the methodology were discovered (e.g. distorting tweeters making ultrasound "audible", etc.). Fishing in old papers, one could find something to support just about any agenda.
> ...


 
   
  It is not "nonsense". My reference to "throwing away" bits was by way of analogy to explain the problem to people with a computer background, as it's usually computer people rather than engineers who make this error. Obviously I am assuming a properly implemented 24 bit volume control with dither. It doesn't change the result at all.
   
  I noticed you edited your post to remove additional details that you were incorrect about, so I will not comment on them. Suffice to say that if anyone doubts that digital attenuation raises the distortion and noise floor essentially in a linear manner, look at the THD+N vs. level graph in the datasheet of your converter. For example, see here:
  http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1704.pdf
  That's a much higher performance 24-bit DAC in terms of distortion (not necessarily other parameters) than the chip in the ODAC. Look at the first graph on page 4. You can see that they hit 0.01% distortion (the threshold you're advocating) using 24 bit data at just -26 dB of digital attenuation.
   
  Your suggested test is valid, but you have to use realistic levels of digital attenuation, because most people do not have the gain structure of their system properly calibrated. The default gain of the O2 combined with the nominal output level of the ODAC, for example, is going to mean that many people will need around 40-50dB of attenuation for typical headphones, particularly low impedance headphones. I have a very carefully calibrated gain structure in my own speaker system, and I still need 16dB of attenuation at a minimum. Use realistic numbers and you may be surprised by the result. Also, you are confused about what listening level the test must be run at. The whole point of attenuation is to adjust the gain structure to reflect a person's standard listening level, so you must run the test at a person's standard listening level.
   
  In any case, regardless of whether the additional (substantial) distortion is audible, there's no reason to introduce it at all. In circumstances where analog attenuation is an option, it doesn't make engineering sense to introduce 20-50 dB or more of additional distortion *relative to your standard listening level* by using a digital volume control. Why buy the ODAC at all in this case?


----------



## skamp

moonunit said:


> The default gain of the O2 combined with the nominal output level of the ODAC, for example, is going to mean that many people will need around 40-50dB of attenuation for typical headphones, particularly low impedance headphones.




Uh? I'm fine with 1x gain, no digital attenuation and the volume knob at 10 O'clock, with my Denon AH-D2000 (25Ω / 100-106 dB/mW).


----------



## mnarwold

I received my ODAC and O2 today.
  Without any burn-in (Does this benefit from burn-in?) it sounds pretty good. I'm using J.River to output 24bit using WASAPI -Event Style (something the HRT Headstreamer had problems with). Keeping the system volume at 100% I don't even go above 9 o'clock on my Grado SR225i. Of course, those are pretty easy to drive in the first place.
  Unfortunately, they forgot to ship the power source, so I'm running it off a pair of 9v batteries. Is the SQ the same with the batteries and the power supply or does the power supply sound better?
  I can't compare this directly to my Headstreamer since I sold it before I received my new setup. I tested the Headstreamer against my iPod 5.5 and then compared my iPod to the ODAC+O2 and think the ODAC+O2 is a little more revealing. In Cry Me A River by Michael Buble, the background instruments had more nuance. Rather than a particular not being played, I could tell that it was a saxophone and heard a little bit of the buzz/blare that is normal for it to produce. I couldn't tell a difference on the foreground instruments, just in the background.


----------



## adydula

Hey glad you got your ODAC and O2!
   
  I run mine mostly from batteries, and attach the ac adapter evey other day overnight to re-charge them.
   
  I honestly do not hear any audible differences running with the ac adapter attached vs running on pure "DC" from the batteries.
   
  You would think that with all the discussions about power supplies etc being crap and having to use higher dollar sans higher quality supplies that there would be ......but by running on batteries all those AC power supply issues, filtering, transformer hum and noise, ac ripple etc all go away.....thats whats really neat about the O2 design....
   
  I even bought several AC adapters at different voltages to see if this would improve the sound quality etc...to me nothing....they all sound just fine....12v to 18 volt.
   
  With my Grado 325is which are what I call a bright set of cans..I noticed that these are even "brighter'' than before...especially with brass instruments....with vocals they are wonderful...
   
  I have a set of LCD2's, the Grados and a set of AKG 701's and they all sound great with this combo....
   
  Hope you get your ac adapter soon!! Before the batteries run down!!
   
  lol
   
  Alex


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hey glad you got your ODAC and O2!
> 
> I run mine mostly from batteries, and attach the ac adapter evey other day overnight to re-charge them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  So I think my batteries ran out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It just started popping randomly. I'm hoping it is just batteries and not something more serious.


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





mnarwold said:


> So I think my batteries ran out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Popping is what you can get when the batteries drain.  Actually, the nature and behavior of the popping depends on the actual batteries and certain resistor values in the circuit.  It's supposed to be shutting the amp off to prevent the batteries from being overdrained, that's all.  Sometimes, the behavior is a little funky and it keeps tripping on and off until you actually recharge the batteries again. 
   
  Pop in some new batteries or wait for the adapter.  It should be good to go then.


----------



## adydula

Go get some cheap Duracell etc batteries....do you know how to take it apart?
   
  Alex


----------



## mnarwold

I put in some cheap batteries already. I bought from Mayflower Electronics that gives you the option to not buy the rechargeable batteries for a discount. Tyler told me he would be sending me a gift to make up for forgetting the power supply and I'm kinda hoping it's the batteries. I don't really expect to be using my amp as a portable amp which is why I decided not to get the batteries. Of course, now I'm seeing where they'd come in handy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  After letting the amp sit for a little while it is now working again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but who knows for how much longer


----------



## Ralf Hutter

What happens if you try to play music through the ODAC that is not at one of its' supported resolutions? I have many 24/88 SACD rips, and according to the data, that is not supported by the ODAC. Will these play? Will they be downsampled or modified in some way prior to being played?

This question was asked several times earlier in this same thread and it was never answered, as far as I can tell.

Thanks!


----------



## adydula

ralf...
   
  You can find out more about this on the designers site...or google "sacd odac" and then pick the first topic....points to his blog, do a control F and search for SACD.
   
  The nut of it is that some have asked for 24/88 high res support like yours from SACD rips. The ODAC doesn not support these. The workaround is to re-sample the 24/88 rips to the audibly identical 24/44 format. Its easy to do, there are not artifacts....a simple divide by two process. Some people have done comparisons with 24/88 to the 24/44 with Foobar and the ABX addon. Unless you mess up the re-sample you will not be able to tell them apart.
   
  I dont have any SACD rips and dont know off hand what would happen if you tried to play them, most likely no sound etc....try it.
   
  Alex


----------



## rs01

Quote: 





ralf hutter said:


> What happens if you try to play music through the ODAC that is not at one of its' supported resolutions? I have many 24/88 SACD rips, and according to the data, that is not supported by the ODAC. Will these play? Will they be downsampled or modified in some way prior to being played?
> This question was asked several times earlier in this same thread and it was never answered, as far as I can tell.
> Thanks!


 

 Ralf,
   
  I can play 24/88 files I purchased off hdtracks without any issue (I just specifically tested https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD00028947419921) with Foobar and the ODAC.  FWIW I don't know if or how the downsampling would work, but it still sounds excellent.
   
  rs


----------



## Funky-kun

Using foobar2000, when trying to output 88.2 khz files through WASAPI you get:
   
   


> Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 88200 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels


 
   
  Under Direct Sound it plays fine, the OS taking care of the resampling, as set in the control panel. 
   
  I personally avoid the issue by resampling only the unsupported sample rates with SoX to 44.1.


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





ralf hutter said:


> What happens if you try to play music through the ODAC that is not at one of its' supported resolutions? I have many 24/88 SACD rips, and according to the data, that is not supported by the ODAC. Will these play? Will they be downsampled or modified in some way prior to being played?
> This question was asked several times earlier in this same thread and it was never answered, as far as I can tell.
> Thanks!


 

 It depends.
  1.) If using WASAPI mode in foobar, then it will not play. But there is a workaround - just use "Resampler" in DSP Manager and choose any supported sample rate by ODAC (44.1/48/96)
   
  2.) If using DirectSound, which is default in foobar, there will be no problem in playing 24/88, because Windows will resample automatically. (to sample rate chosen in Control panel -> Sound -> (ODAC) Properties -> Advanced)


----------



## Funky-kun

In light of the recent discussion of hardware vs. software volume control I tried testing whether I can hear the difference or not. So I set the volume from my laptop to a minimal level and maxed my amp... It sounded pretty much the same (might be the fact that I used foobar's volume control, not Windows'), but I did find something else. Running directly from my USB port the ODAC seems to get high-pitched noises from the power supply. I know that my amp is dead silent so that's not the reason for the noise.
   
  I had a random USB hub lying around that I have been using for the last few years that I got from Amazon for $5 or so. I didn't have any hope that it would sound any better, because it is a cheap unit without a dedicated power line, and I have my peripherals attached to it. But it turns out the ODAC sounds fine from it - there is absolutely no noise present now with the volume of the amp maxed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So I guess you don't need an expensive unit to reap the benefits. In any case, I can confirm that laptop power supplies can be noisy with the ODAC.


----------



## techfreakazoid

Just received my JDS Labs ODAC and it's an impressive little unit--build quality of the enclosure is nice and the output is clean. Need some time to run the A-B tests before the SQ assessment.
   
  I'm using the RCA outputs and the jacks are decent and well-spaced to accommodate thicker RCA male jacks. When I connect a 3.5mm cable to the front output, noticed the PCB inside is sliding and banging against the case. Is this an issue with the regular JDS enclosure? Or is this a QC/design issue with the RCA case being too long for the PCB? I figure there would be a stopper inside the case to prevent the board slide. Other than that, the unit is flawless.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





techfreakazoid said:


> Just received my JDS Labs ODAC and it's an impressive little unit--build quality of the enclosure is nice and the output is clean. Need some time to run the A-B tests before the SQ assessment.
> 
> I'm using the RCA outputs and the jacks are decent and well-spaced to accommodate thicker RCA male jacks. When I connect a 3.5mm cable to the front output, noticed the PCB inside is sliding and banging against the case. Is this an issue with the regular JDS enclosure? Or is this a QC/design issue with the RCA case being too long for the PCB? I figure there would be a stopper inside the case to prevent the board slide. Other than that, the unit is flawless.


 
  Well, the original 3.5mm version that came in the longer case but without RCA used a stopper on the inside. Mine doesn't slide around. Email JDS and see what they have to say. They are some really nice guys and should work with you to resolve the problem.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Alright guys,

 I have the same problem with my laptop as I was having with my usb 3.0 ports on my desktop. Guess it's time to buy one of those powered usb hubs and give it a shot. Just wish the decent ones weren't so pricey 

 The problem is after 15 minutes or so the odac gets reaaaall distorted. I don't know why it happens after 10-15 minutes. I don't know why it only happens with my laptop or my usb 3.0 ports on my desktop. It's especially weird because the 3.0 ports worked for the longest time.

 I have no idea what's going on. I'm starting to think maybe my ODAC itself is messed up somehow because no one else reports a problem like mine.


----------



## Funky-kun

If possible try it on another computer to see if the problem is the ODAC itself. Also, try using it with any USB hub you have lying around and see if it helps. A generic $5 hub helped me resolve my issue (3 posts up).


----------



## techfreakazoid

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Well, the original 3.5mm version that came in the longer case but without RCA used a stopper on the inside. Mine doesn't slide around. Email JDS and see what they have to say. They are some really nice guys and should work with you to resolve the problem.


 
   
  Thanks Chris. I opened up the case and the stopper measures 46.2mm. It's short 0.5 to 1.0mm. I sent an e-mail to John to get his thoughts.
   
  I'm using the ODAC out of my laptop's USB 3.0 port. Also, have one of those 7 port USB 3.0 hubs and so far no issues. Try to isolate the problem by testing different outlets, amps, cables, friend's computer, if it occurs when running certain/multiple apps, peripherals, etc.


----------



## Architeuthis

I was also getting bad distortion after several minutes of playback. Increasing the buffer size in my player corrected it....I hope your problem is as simple to fix.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





architeuthis said:


> I was also getting bad distortion after several minutes of playback. Increasing the buffer size in my player corrected it....I hope your problem is as simple to fix.


 
  I will try that!
   
  What do you have your buffer set at? I upped mine to 2k, but I don't know if that is enough.


----------



## FlySweep

I've had a number of people PM for impressions about how the ODAC/O2 stacks up to the UHA-6S MKII.  I briefly compared DAC/amp sections of these two rigs.. then offered some thoughts on how the amp sections of the O2 & UHA sound (when driven from the ODAC).  I thought I'd post one of my more involved (see: long winded) answers here since it might help others.  Obviously, these are my _personal_ impressions/opinions, don't go crying to mommy if you disagree, yadda yadda yadda..
   
  -----------------------------
   
  The ODAC/O2 & UHA are quite similar in performance.  In the fairly extensive time I've spent comparing the ODAC & UHA's DAC section, I found the ODAC to sound superior.  Since I listen to both these rigs quite often, the differences are fairly easily distinguishable to me.. but in more general terms, the differences aren't as stark or lopsided as some HF members claim.  The UHA's DAC is more than capable DAC, IMO.  If I rated the ODAC as a 9/10.. the UHA's DAC would probably be an 8.25/10 or 8.5/10, IMO.  Vs. the UHA's DAC, the ODAC features a more multidimensional soundstage, better dynamics, cleaner instrument separation, and better overall clarity/transparency.  The UHA's amp is really good though.. very clean & transparent... perhaps slightly smoother sounding than the ODAC... but it lacks some of the depth and effortlessness the ODAC boasts.
   
  Some criticize the UHA amp's OPA209 opamp (which is beautifully resolving, neutral, and tight, IMO) for not possessing a wide enough soundstage... but what I discovered is that the UHA's _DAC_ does a nice job of complimenting this so-called 'shortcoming' in the OPA209 opamp by offering a pleasantly wide soundstage.  This is an often unmentioned and/or overlooked characteristic & a nice touch of synergy between the UHA's DAC & amp sections.  Unfortunately for the UHA's built-in DAC, the ODAC offers an _even wider_ (and deeper) stage along with better resolution.  While I enjoy using the UHA as both a DAC/amp, pairing the ODAC with the UHA 's amp section (which is my primary portable rig) is an absolute beast of a setup.. one that's so impressive that it'll probably satisfy many people's portable rig search for the foreseeable future (well, at least for for me, anyways). 
   
  Using the ODAC with both amps, the most significant strength the O2 has over the UHA's amp is the ultra-wide soundstage & slightly better dynamic range.  The O2's has a really impressive, open stage that possesses a very "live" quality.  The UHA's amp is no slouch in this category.. but the distinction can be easily observer (golden eara not required 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  While the O2 sounds a little smoother, more substantial & possesses slightly more bass punch/impact than the UHA's amp, the UHA amp's bass response is slightly tighter, faster, and possesses a little more PRaT.  The UHA's amp also features a lower noise floor from my experience so you've got an even quieter/black background than the O2 (which is amazing).  Pair the UHA with the dead silent ODAC.. and you'll 'hear' one of the blackest backgrounds in all of portable audio  Comparatively vs the UHA (OPA209), the O2 might sound a little more 'musical'.. but the UHA sound like the the more accurate, cleaner sounding amp to me.
   
  I like that the UHA's low gain is set at 1X.. it makes using it with IEMs quite easy since unity (1X) gain typically allows more of the volume pot to be utilized with highly sensitive IEMs.  The O2's low gain is at 2.3x (or 2.5x?).. but it performs nearly as well with highly sensitive IEMs.  I mention this more for informational purposes.. in real world use, i didn't have any problem using sensitive IEMs with the O2's low/default gain.  Less of the O2's pot was at my disposal.. but it was past the point of channel imbalance.
   
  I like having both the O2 & UHA amps at my disposal since I have the HD600 & Paradox (two phones that benefit from the O2's higher output power).. but the UHA (in high gain mode) drives these full sized phones quite well, too.  The UHA's high gain sounds more linear and better controlled than the O2's high gain implementation, IMO.  The UHA as an all-in-one DAC+amp solution is plenty impressive.. especially since it can be used with the Galaxy S3's OTG cable/USB audio output.  Using the ODAC with the S3's OTG/USB audio has been less reliable/inconsistent IME.. it doesn't work less often than it does, for some reason (I'm running the stock Verizon/TouchWiz JellyBean ROM.. not rooted/unlocked/modded).
   
  The ODAC/UHA provides enough of what the ODAC/O2 offers as far as soundstage.. while featuring slightly better resolving ability (than the ODAC/O2 combo), better battery life, and more versatility (digital & coax inputs).. all in a smaller, more compact, sexier, portable package.  The ODAC/UHA's cleaner sound has excellent synergy with the slightly warm, vinyl/analog-tinged character of the BA200, too.
   
  My recommendation would be to get the ODAC & feed it to the UHA-6S MKII's amp section.  You'll get the terrifically transparent, dynamic, multidimensional, and highly resolving qualities of the ODAC along with the clear, tight, fast, PRaT-excelling quality of the UHA's amp section (with the OPA209).  This is my go to portable solution & I _couldn't be happier_with the sound quality.  Recently, I had been eyeing the TTVJ Glacier and Portaphile 628 amps as potential upgrades to the UHA.  Those might be something I consider down the line.. and out of sheer curiosity.. but for now.. as I have spent a significant amount of time with the ODAC/UHA stack (and the ODAC/O2), I grew to really appreciate and become incredibly content with the terrific sound quality both these setups offer.  If it wasn't already apparent, I slightly favor the ODAC/UHA combo, though.. it's thoroughly satisfied performance requirements in a portable rig and I can't see myself letting for of it for the foreseeable future.
  -----------------------------


----------



## stv014

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlySweep* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The UHA's high gain sounds more linear and better controlled than the O2's high gain implementation, IMO.


 
   
  The default (6.5x) high gain of the O2 will clip with a full scale input from the ODAC, regardless of the volume setting on the O2. It should not be used, unless you really need the last few dB of power, and do not mind having to control the volume in software to avoid clipping, or have some very quiet music that will not clip even at 100% digital volume on high gain.


----------



## chong

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Alright guys,
> 
> I have the same problem with my laptop as I was having with my usb 3.0 ports on my desktop. Guess it's time to buy one of those powered usb hubs and give it a shot. Just wish the decent ones weren't so pricey
> 
> ...


 

 My ODAC is the RCA version purchased from Head 'n' HiFi, and I have the same problem with my Desktop's USB2.0 ports (running off the Intel Z68 chipset) - *All sounds (including system sounds) will get distorted after 5mins*, and I will need to disconnect and reconnect the ODAC for it to become normal before it craps out again 5mins later.  I've disabled the power saving options in Win7x64 device manager for the USB hubs, tried switching to the other USB2.0 ports, tried another USB cable, and nothing helped.
  
  So far it does not happen with the same Desktop's USB3.0 ports (running off Etron EJ168 controller), nor my old AMD laptop's USB2.0 ports (running off the ATI Xpress 200M chipset).
   
  Personally, the easiest way to detect the distortion is to open up the Sound section in Windows Control Panel, click the "Playback" tab, right click on the ODAC and choose "Test".  I can record the normal and distorted versions if anyone is interested.


----------



## adydula

So it works ok on system with usb 3.0 ports bit after 5 min it starts crapping out on the same system with usb 2.0 ports?
   
  And it works ok on a second system with AMD and us b 2.0 ports....
   
  Cable, other usb 2.0 ports still the same...
   
  It may be your usb 2.0 ports on this system arent cutting it for some reason?
   
  Are there any other usb devices connected to the desktop when this happens?
   
  Alex
   
  Can u try a usb 2.0 hub connected to the desktop usb 2.0 ports and see if it is ok?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





chong said:


> My ODAC is the RCA version purchased from Head 'n' HiFi, and I have the same problem with my Desktop's USB2.0 ports (running off the Intel Z68 chipset) - *All sounds (including system sounds) will get distorted after 5mins*, and I will need to disconnect and reconnect the ODAC for it to become normal before it craps out again 5mins later.  I've disabled the power saving options in Win7x64 device manager for the USB hubs, tried switching to the other USB2.0 ports, tried another USB cable, and nothing helped.
> 
> So far it does not happen with the same Desktop's USB3.0 ports (running off Etron EJ168 controller), nor my old AMD laptop's USB2.0 ports (running off the ATI Xpress 200M chipset).
> 
> Personally, the easiest way to detect the distortion is to open up the Sound section in Windows Control Panel, click the "Playback" tab, right click on the ODAC and choose "Test".  I can record the normal and distorted versions if anyone is interested.


 
   
  Isn't it freaking bizarre? I'm sorry to hear you have the same problem, but at the same time, relieved I'm not the only one. My problems are just as you describe, but the odac doesn't work with any of my 2.0 ports on my asus laptop or my 3.0 ports on my desktop.
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> So it works ok on system with usb 3.0 ports bit after 5 min it starts crapping out on the same system with usb 2.0 ports?
> 
> And it works ok on a second system with AMD and us b 2.0 ports....
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the problem reversed between my 3.0 and 2.0 ports XD. I don't think it's a 3.0 vs 2.0 thing, but.. it could be. I have quite a few other usb things connected to my desktop, a wifi card, a mouse, a webcam, sometimes a keyboard.. sometimes a card reader or my mp3 player. Just depends.
   
  It's really a weird problem, it's more frustrating with my laptop than my desktop. It's no big deal to avoid using my 3.0 ports on my desktop, but it sucks to not be able to use my laptop at all.


----------



## adydula

What I was trying to get at is if you can only have the ODAC attached to the USB 2.0 ports....and see if by itself will it play for more than 5 minutes....
   
  Wondering if the load on the usb circuitry in the system?
   
  Alex


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





adydula said:


> What I was trying to get at is if you can only have the ODAC attached to the USB 2.0 ports....and see if by itself will it play for more than 5 minutes....
> 
> Wondering if the load on the usb circuitry in the system?
> 
> Alex


 
  Yeah, I could try that with my laptop. I'll report back. I'll try a usb hub too, but not a powered one.


----------



## adydula

i have been playing with a powered USB 2.0 hub going back and forth on a Gateway desktop...to see it there is any real discernable difference....so far there is none.
   
  Adding a external USB hub that is NOT powered, to me, is a recipe for disaster.....your using the "maybe' already taxes USB power and adding even more stuff to the load, including the hub itself..
   
  The only reason I would use a non-powered USB hub is for logistics...ie the system has USB ports on the backside etc and hard to get to or cables would be too short for you application.
   
  Good Luck!
   
  Alex


----------



## kkl10

I've been searching for a nice little DAC and I'm interested in this ODAC. I've read that most USB powered DACs, and even DACs with their own power supplies, can benefit from an external cleaner power supply, instead of the dirty +5V sourced by most PCs VBus... Has anyone tried powering the ODAC with the Olimex USB isolator and a cleaner power supply? Or other cheap ADuM4160 based USB isolator? And there are devices like the AQVOX USB Low-Noise Linear Power Supply, Vaunix USB hub (Currawong says very good things of this with the ODAC), iFi iUSBPower... anyone tried these yet?


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





kkl10 said:


> I've been searching for a nice little DAC and I'm interested in this ODAC. I've read that most USB powered DACs, and even DACs with their own power supplies, can benefit from an external cleaner power supply, instead of the dirty +5V sourced by most PCs VBus... Has anyone tried powering the ODAC with the Olimex USB isolator and a cleaner power supply? Or other cheap ADuM4160 based USB isolator? And there are devices like the AQVOX USB Low-Noise Linear Power Supply, Vaunix USB hub (Currawong says very good things of this with the ODAC), iFi iUSBPower... anyone tried these yet?


 
  According to NWAVGUY, "... the ODAC uses split digital and analog power supplies each with their own filtering and regulator."  So I doubt that a "cleaner" USB power supply is going to make any difference at all, unless your USB power is particularly bad (sags below 4.75V, for instance).
   
  There are many inexpensive USB-powered DACs that do not use separate regulators and filtering to provide the 3.3V digital power and analog output regulation.  That's why all this talk of separately-powered USB hubs.  However, if the DAC is properly designed with sufficient onboard power supply filtering/regulation, such powered USB hubs are not going to make any difference.
   
  In the case of the 3.3V digital power, many USB-interface or DAC chips may have that voltage ability onboard (because USB is ~5V), so some designs will shortcut and leave separate regulation out.  However, it's never as good as separate filtering and regulation on the PCB.  Lack of an analog output regulation is particularly easy to do in a USB-powered DAC design, but it has the most damaging affect on sound quality - just as if an amplifier made no attempt to regulate the voltage supply.  All the power variances get superimposed on the audio signal.
   
  Anyway, as stated upfront - NWAVGUY says the ODAC has the separate filtering/regulation, so it's not going to benefit from a high-quality-power USB hub.


----------



## chrislangley4253

http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-USB-Port-Power-Adapter/dp/B00483WRZ6/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

 these look nice. Might pick up one for the sake of redundancy to see if it helps with my laptop odac issues.


----------



## adydula

Cheap, works well...
   
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182057
   
  I dont think with 99% of PCs out there that its really needed and I agree totally with tom b's posts above.
   
  I have used the dac with IBM, Lenovo, Acer, Gatewas, ASUS, EVGA and other notebooks, and desktops and DIY and never had a real issue with the power supply making things sound better or worse.
   
  I actually measured the current draw under load and no-load and its less than 100 ma....well less.than what a USB 2 or 3 should supply if implemented properly.
   
  All the best!
  Merry Christmas!
  Alex


----------



## chrislangley4253

Blagh, never had good luck with rosewill. They are a bit _too_ cheap from my limited experience.


----------



## kkl10

Despite the suggestions on the contrary, I still find it reasonable that there might be an improvement on the Dac proficiency, so I'm all set to get the cleanest signal possible to my USB Dac. ... even if just for the sake of making the Jitter removal task easier for the DAC...
  So I'll just get one Y USB cable, rip off the +5V pin on the PC end, grab one of these bargains, switch the ground lift on my amp as I wish and I'm all set.
  If I get the ODAC, I'll let you guys know if it makes a difference for me or not.


----------



## MikePio

Hey guys, just received the ODAC and want to listen to it for some time before making any impressions. Though I have a silly question, but going lineout out of my soundcard and lineout of the ODAC it seems the ODAC at the same volume on my amp sounds much louder, is that the detail or does the ODAC actually amplify the sound somewhat... Will post my impressions later! Cheers,


----------



## stv014

Are you comparing it to onboard sound ? That typically has 1.2-1.4 V full scale output voltage at most, while the ODAC can output 2.0 V, and so can many internal sound cards.


----------



## chrislangley4253

What stv said.. The ODAC likely just puts out a much stronger (2V) signal than your soundcard.


----------



## chong

Quote: 





adydula said:


> So it works ok on system with usb 3.0 ports bit after 5 min it starts crapping out on the same system with usb 2.0 ports?
> 
> And it works ok on a second system with AMD and us b 2.0 ports....
> 
> ...


 
  Seems when the ODAC is the *only *USB device connected to the desktop USB2.0 ports, the problem does not occur. 
   
  When I plugged back my USB2.0 hub (built in to Dell 27" monitor) to the desktop USB2.0 ports, it also worked fine - upon reboot however, the problem resurfaced.  Then I unplugged the Logitech USB gaming mouse receiver from the hub and connected it directly to another desktop USB2.0 port, and the problem did not surface so far even after reboot.
   
  I'm still testing it, so not drawing any conclusions yet.  I've also ordered a cheap PCIe USB3.0 NEC chipset based card with a direct power connector input from ebay - wanted to replace the crappy built in Etron USB3.0 ports anyway.


----------



## MikePio

Thank you guys for the technical insight! After spending some time with the Odac using the EF5 AMP with the K701's, I have pretty similar impressions to many on this thread. The positive with this setup: smooth treble, superb clarity, great resolution with micro detail and a sense of "air" which is hard to describe, subtle but impressive. The negative with this setup: unforgiving with poor quality records, sterile sounding at times, can also be too "digital" sounding for some. The strange aspect of the Odac is that some albums can sound incredible, an emphasis on detail is immense here while other albums can sound really poor, highlighting an artificial and harsh digital sound. These impressions were compared to my old Parasound 1100HD and straight line out of my soundcard. Once I get back, I will be able to directly compare the Stello DA100 with the W5000's amplified by the HA5000. To conclude, I would recommend to anybody looking to purchase a detailed, transparent DAC that will emphasize nearly all details on the recording and hold nothing back. At the end of the day, this little unit is worth your consideration, though don't expect miracles. It is a solid little DAC that has fantastic value for the price, a worthy purchase indeed that I will continue to rediscover many times when listening to my music. Cheers,


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





mikepio said:


> Thank you guys for the technical insight! After spending some time with the Odac using the EF5 AMP with the K701's, I have pretty similar impressions to many on this thread. The positive with this setup: smooth treble, superb clarity, great resolution with micro detail and a sense of "air" which is hard to describe, subtle but impressive. The negative with this setup: unforgiving with poor quality records, sterile sounding at times, can also be too "digital" sounding for some*. The strange aspect of the Odac is that some albums can sound incredible, an emphasis on detail is immense here while other albums can sound really poor, highlighting an artificial and harsh digital sound. *These impressions were compared to my old Parasound 1100HD and straight line out of my soundcard. Once I get back, I will be able to directly compare the Stello DA100 with the W5000's amplified by the HA5000. To conclude, I would recommend to anybody looking to purchase a detailed, transparent DAC that will emphasize nearly all details on the recording and hold nothing back. At the end of the day, this little unit is worth your consideration, though don't expect miracles. It is a solid little DAC that has fantastic value for the price, a worthy purchase indeed that I will continue to rediscover many times when listening to my music. Cheers,


 
   
  That's not strange. Some of your albums are recorded and mastered well.. Some of them are artificial and harsh. The DAC can't reveal detail on good recordings and hold it back on poor ones. Maybe it should come with a switch, lol.


----------



## antberg

Hi guys,i need some kind of advise of yours.
  In September i did ordered a ODac-O2 combo.Well the first package went lost and now i am waiting for the second one (My new HD650 is starving...),supposing i will be receiving it in about 10-15 days.As i have been following this and the O2 AMP + ODAC thread since the beginning,and i noticed some of us have been suffering some issue about the ODac when plugged to some Notebook/PC USB direct port.
   
  Now,i have an old Samsung Notebook which i am pretty sure is little weak on USB Port power,so i am looking forward some advise of whether i need to wait to get my hand on the DAC before to see if i will encounter the same issues or maybe i can already order something from Ebay right now.
  There are plenty of powered USB Hub on Ebay,but i don't know which brand will be reliable as there are products from 2 to 30 dollars...
  Thanks guys
   
  Edit.:This time i did definitively learned something about patience


----------



## mchang

I'd just wait and see how it works out. If you need to, pick up a cheap powered USB hub.
   
  I retrofitted an ODAC into my O2 a few days ago. I plugged it into my work Macbook Pro (1-1/2 years old) with no problems.
   
  Later I tried on my 4-year-old Macbook (not-pro 13"). It started out sounding digitized and strange. I plugged and unplugged the USB, which resulted in clear sound for 30 seconds before it stopped playing. I did a bit more digging and noticed that a program called Soundflower had installed some drivers/extensions. I uninstalled and restarted (hadn't restarted in weeks). Not sure which of the steps fixed it, but the ODAC+O2 played perfectly thereafter.
   
  I'm back at work now and plugged into a $15 powered USB hub from Fry's. Rocking out with no issues.


----------



## antberg

Thanks Mchang,i guess it is no need to an expensive Belkin 50 dollars multiplugs...i'll let you know how it will perform,apparently the package is at the income duties office,i hope they don't tax me ...


----------



## chrislangley4253

Definitely wait
   
  Quote: 





mchang said:


> I'd just wait and see how it works out. If you need to, pick up a cheap powered USB hub.
> 
> I retrofitted an ODAC into my O2 a few days ago. I plugged it into my work Macbook Pro (1-1/2 years old) with no problems.
> 
> ...


 
  You know.. I wonder if it's a driver problem that's causing my laptop and usb 3.0 issues. I bet it is.


----------



## mnarwold

So, random idea I wanted to pass along about the O2.
  If you're looking into buying the O2 you may have noticed that the power supply needs to output AC rather than DC. This makes it next to impossible (at least my attempts have been futile) at finding one on Amazon or in regular stores. The vast majority of electronics use AC/DC converters and the O2 needs an AC/AC converter. Well, I found out something that typically uses an AC/AC converter: Answering machines. You know that old answering machine you don't use anymore because of your cell phone? It may just have the power supply that you need. I still use my answering machine, so I couldn't take it from there, but thrift stores in the area had a plethora of them. The only problem is that the majority of them only output 6-8 volts and the o2 calls for 14-20. I figured that since it can also run off of 9v batteries that I bought a 9v power supply for $1 and it works.
   
  So why didn't I just order a power supply with my O2? I did, the seller forgot to include it in the original package, then mailed it out the next day, but it has gotten lost in the mail. Luckily, Tyler from Mayflower Electronics is a great guy and is sending another one priority since I will be moving out of the country next week. I just needed a power supply to hold me over until the new one arrives.


----------



## RobbenTrower

Thinking of getting this, but what if I want 5.1 from my pc movies? My pc is hooked up with rca (rears, center, l and r) to my receiver. If i have an odac going from usb to RCA's on receiver, won't I have to continually unplug it and replug the RCA from the pc soundcard when I watch a movie?


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





robbentrower said:


> Thinking of getting this, but what if I want 5.1 from my pc movies? My pc is hooked up with rca (rears, center, l and r) to my receiver. If i have an odac going from usb to RCA's on receiver, won't I have to continually unplug it and replug the RCA from the pc soundcard when I watch a movie?


 
   
  The ODAC only produces stereo audio. If you don't have spare connections on your receiver, you'll be plugging and unplugging.


----------



## adydula

you could use your receiver for 5.1 ..no ODAC and use the USB pc out to it and to a seperate nice 02 amp...
   
  Alex


----------



## chong

Quote: 





chong said:


> Seems when the ODAC is the *only *USB device connected to the desktop USB2.0 ports, the problem does not occur.
> 
> When I plugged back my USB2.0 hub (built in to Dell 27" monitor) to the desktop USB2.0 ports, it also worked fine - upon reboot however, the problem resurfaced.  Then I unplugged the Logitech USB gaming mouse receiver from the hub and connected it directly to another desktop USB2.0 port, and the problem did not surface so far even after reboot.
> 
> I'm still testing it, so not drawing any conclusions yet.  I've also ordered a cheap PCIe USB3.0 NEC chipset based card with a direct power connector input from ebay - wanted to replace the crappy built in Etron USB3.0 ports anyway.


 
   
  So after more than a week, I am confident my problem has been resolved.  Thanks Alex and Chris for your suggestions which helped me tons during the debug! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The fix is to plug my logitech G700 gaming mouse receiver directly to a desktop USB2.0 port rather than to my monitor's USB hub.  The ODAC remains unmoved on another desktop USB2.0 port. In diagrams:
   
*Bad config (ODAC distorts after 5mins):*
      Intel Z68 chipset USB2.0 controller
         |
         ---- ODAC
         |
         ---- Dell 2711 USB2.0 Hub
                  |
                  ---- Logitech G700 gaming mouse receiver
   
   
*Good config (no distortion after 1+ weeks):*
      Intel Z68 chipset USB2.0 controller
          |
          ---- ODAC
          |
          ---- Logitech G700 gaming mouse receiver
          |
          ---- Dell 2711 USB2.0 Hub


----------



## adydula

chong...congratulations!
   
  I would never use the usb ports in a monitor etc.....
   
  now you can get back to just enjoying the music!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## chrislangley4253

That seems so bizarre to me.


----------



## adydula

Chris...not really...the hub in the Dell monitor may have issues...i dont know if its a powered hub or a passive hub.....and if it meets the USB design specs and has been physically implemented "well" etc..
   
  Alex


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Chris...not really...the hub in the Dell monitor may have issues...i dont know if its a powered hub or a passive hub.....and if it meets the USB design specs and has been physically implemented "well" etc..
> 
> Alex


 
*I* just wouldn't expect it to cause a problem with other devices that aren't even hooked up to it.


----------



## adydula

"Ain't" technology grand....
   
  LOL
   
  Alex


----------



## Taowolf51

I seem to be having a bit of a problem with my ODAC. I use it for awhile, and all of a sudden it begins this strange crackling. If I unplug it and replug it, it goes away.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> I seem to be having a bit of a problem with my ODAC. I use it for awhile, and all of a sudden it begins this strange crackling. If I unplug it and replug it, it goes away.


 
  join the club taowolf... This happens with my laptop, or with usb 3.0 on my desktop. A few other people have the problem for various reasons too.


----------



## Taowolf51

Oh lovely.
   
  I'm going to check to see if I have it plugged into USB 3.0.


----------



## PanamaHat

See if the problem goes away when you keep the power plugged into your laptop. So far I haven't had any problems with my odac running from a usb 2.0 port on my laptop which I never unplug from the charger.


----------



## adydula

taowolf51...
   
  Please give us more details about your specific setup:
   
  1. What is the PC?
  2. How many USB ports?
  3. What else is plugged into the USB ports while the ODAC is plugged in as well?
  4. Does the noise start after a particlar time in use? 5min or is it random?
  5. Any USB hubs involved?
   
  Alex


----------



## sulla138

I use this powered hub (iPad2 -> cck -> belkin hub to go) It works great. I threw the funny unpowered part in a drawer.
   
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-USB-2-0-7-PORT-HUB/dp/B000TTTJ36/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357692692&sr=1-1&keywords=belkin+hub+to+go


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





adydula said:


> taowolf51...
> 
> Please give us more details about your specific setup:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Custom built PC. Motherboard is Gigabyte x58a-UD3R.
  Um, maybe 10 in the motherboard itself. Some 2.0, some 3.0. I'm using the 2.0 for the ODAC.
  A mouse, external hard drive (USB 3.0), keyboard (2 USB slots), a bluetooth receiver, sometimes a Wacom tablet.
  I usually just notice it, sometimes. I don't have a timeframe. (EDIT: About 5 minutes or so. I played a 7 minute song after unplugging and replugging it and it popped up at maybe the 5 minute mark.)
  No.
   
  If this continues, I may just sell or return this and go with a Modi.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





panamahat said:


> See if the problem goes away when you keep the power plugged into your laptop. So far I haven't had any problems with my odac running from a usb 2.0 port on my laptop which I never unplug from the charger.


 
  I still have problems with it on my laptop with it plugged in. But, I haven't put much effort into trying to figure out how to fix it.
   
  Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> Custom built PC. Motherboard is Gigabyte x58a-UD3R.
> Um, maybe 10 in the motherboard itself. Some 2.0, some 3.0. I'm using the 2.0 for the ODAC.
> A mouse, external hard drive (USB 3.0), keyboard (2 USB slots), a bluetooth receiver, sometimes a Wacom tablet.
> I usually just notice it, sometimes. I don't have a timeframe. (EDIT: About 5 minutes or so. I played a 7 minute song after unplugging and replugging it and it popped up at maybe the 5 minute mark.)
> ...


 
  :/
   
  Sorry dude. The odac is really nice! I hope you can get it working.


----------



## Taowolf51

I think I was able to get it to work. My motherboard has a few seperate USB chips and switching to a port on what I believe to be a different chip has solved the problem (as far as I know). I'll update after more testing.


----------



## adydula

Tao....
   
  I have a USB DAC that is NOT an ODAC and I did have some issues with it, and the vendor had be do exactly what you have done in sorts.....ie make sure the usb device is on a seperate enumerated hub...it worked for that dac.
   
  Unfortunately with 5 desktops, 4 laptops and a HTPC i neve have had any issues with the ODAC.
   
  Alex


----------



## ProTofik

Hi.
  I've just finished reading this whole thread 
  My ODAC has been sent on monday so I expect get it soon. 
   
  I have 2 more questions:
   
  1. Can anyone recommend me some short 3.5mm-3.5mm cable to connect my ODAC with O2?
  I plan to set ODAC on top of my O2 amp so the cable should be just a few cm long.
   
  2. There is not much in this thread about ODAC - O2 - HD600 config.
  Does anyone has any experience with it? My currect setup is Xonar Essence ST - O2 - HD600. 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## FlySweep

protofik said:


> Hi.
> I've just finished reading this whole thread
> My ODAC has been sent on monday so I expect get it soon.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I use the ODAC/O2/HD600 rig often.  It sounds fantastic.  The HD600 shows it's beauty without effort.  The ODAC is very resolving and neutral.. same with the O2.. which offers a nice, full, bass response.  The rig is very transparent.
   
  I stack the ODAC on top of the O2, also.. get some 3M dual lock tape & a Fiio L8 IC and you're set.  I like to mount the ODAC perpendicular to the O2's face (so the ODAC USB cable leads out to the right or left).


----------



## ProTofik

That is what I'm expecting to get with my HD600.
  I will probably order that Fiio cable tomorrow.
  Thanks!


----------



## adydula

I use the short 6 inch from JDA..and I have a longer monster brand cable as well.
   
  I also use a short 6"extension for the headphone connection so I dont have the weight of the headphone cable for 1/4" hanging off the small 3.5mm onboard connector.
   
  The one thing I dont like mechanically with the O2 is the small 3.5mm connectors so I try to minimize the insertions with the 1/4 to 3.5 mm 6 " cable for the cans.
   
  Alex


----------



## ProTofik

Well, I decided to don't buy the Fiio cable just yet and instead I've made one myself using the parts which I've found in my house.
  Hope it gonna work well. If not I will order the fiio one.


----------



## adydula

Pro...if your a good solder person and do a good job it will work just fine...
   
  Alex


----------



## adydula

Here is the extension cable i got:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O6B/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00
   
  Alex


----------



## ProTofik

Here's the one I've made 
  http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3992/20130111153350.jpg


----------



## adydula

Looks good to me...nice job!
  Alex


----------



## mmayer167

Quote: 





protofik said:


> Hi.
> I've just finished reading this whole thread
> My ODAC has been sent on monday so I expect get it soon.
> 
> ...


 
  http://www.headphone.com/accessories/cardas-6-inch-mini-to-mini-cable.php
   
  That is the cable i use. It works great  
   
  ~M


----------



## chrislangley4253

I want a hd600!

 I use the L8 too, works pretty good.


----------



## ProTofik

Got my ODAC today.
   
  I noticed that after switching off the PC there is a quiet but hearable squeak noise comming from the DAC.
  It stops after unplugging USB plug from ODAC. Is it normal?


----------



## adydula

i assume its still connected to the amp but not to the pc?
   
  Alex


----------



## ProTofik

It is connected both to the amp and the pc. The AC/AC adapter and headphones are connected to the amp as well. 
  It's just sitting there and waiting for me to use it 
  The squeak is gone once I unplug the USB cable.


----------



## Funky-kun

It is completely normal. Happens to mine when connected to a desktop PC too. Not when using it with my laptop though.


----------



## ProTofik

Good to hear that. I was afraid that my one is faulty or something.


----------



## adydula

Some pcs.....still have power on the usb port even when its shut down...i see this on several pcs...mostly homebrew diy types....I shut down the pc and still see lights on etc...unplug from the wall and the power goes off....design flaw.
   
  Alex


----------



## boushh

most of those pcs or better motherboards have "wake up on usb", this can only work, if the port is powered 
   
  so not really a design flaw


----------



## adydula

the board is see this happening to are several yrs old.....also you can usually change the mode of operation in the bios.
   
  Alex


----------



## ProTofik

So if I will find this "wake up on usb" option in my bios I have to set it to on or off?


----------



## adydula

Usually the wake up from usb allows a system that is NOT powered off, to come back to life from a suspended state like hibernate or S3 etc...
   
  Depending on the bios implementation and motherboard it may or may not be there to turn off or on.
   
  Check with the vendor of your pc, or motheboard OEM.
   
  Depending on what you want would determine to accept the default action or to change etc..
   
  What I specifically was talking to was with a PC , a desktop in particular that is a DIY system i put together a few yrs old that even when powered off I see lights still on the system.
  These only go off if I unplug the desktop from the ac outlet.
   
  Its nothing to do with the USB wake up 'feature'...in my case...the usb port has 5vdc there but no wake up.
   
  Aint technology wonderful.....I always shut down my systems when i am not using them...dont want them online 24/7.
   
  Alex


----------



## spatzi

Question: Is it worth getting the Odac if I am only going to be listening to music through hi end speakers? I will be never be using headphones. Sound is going out from a PC realtek card right now, and it sounds fine to me.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





spatzi said:


> Question: Is it worth getting the Odac if I am only going to be listening to music through hi end speakers? I will be never be using headphones. Sound is going out from a PC realtek card right now, and it sounds fine to me.


 
  How high end are we talking?

 It's real hard to say, if you don't hear any problems with you PC.. it might not make a lick of difference, to be honest.


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





spatzi said:


> Question: Is it worth getting the Odac if I am only going to be listening to music through hi end speakers? I will be never be using headphones. Sound is going out from a PC realtek card right now, and it sounds fine to me.


 

 I think it also depends on how much critical listening you do. In critical listening, you should be able to hear a difference, especially with nice speakers. If you have music in the background while doing other things, you would probably never hear a difference. It also depends on what you listen to. From my onboard soundcard I can't tell the difference between lossless and 128kbps or even 24b/96k versus 128kbps, but I can tell the difference between them using the ODAC and my O2. So, if all your music is compressed, might not help much, but it helped me get the extra quality out of the higher bitrate files. Your mileage may vary.
  Matt


----------



## adydula

What are your high end speakers?
   
  Alex


----------



## spatzi

My speakers are the KEF LS50's. Player is jriver, bit perfect mode. Analog out from pc to rca. Files are a mix of flac and vbr mp3's ripped through dbpoweramp. The only computer noise i can hear is if the amp is full blast, but this is 95 % over my listening level as I am in an apartment. 

The weak point in this set up is the amp (older Panasonic sa he-70). Was debating if i should upgrade receiver first to Cambridge azur 651A which has a usb in. ($650) Don't know how much this is going to make a difference either over the amp I have.

Music would be ambient, acoustic, jazz, fusion, soundtracks. Listening to music while working on computer or reading.


----------



## adydula

spatzi...
   
  Kool...I have a 2 ch setup with Salk SongTowers connected to an AVA Insight + Preamp to a AVA UltraValve amp. The amp is 35 watts.
   
  The source can be cd's via an Oppo BD83SE direct or a HTPC flacs via USB Dac etc...
   
  I have so many routes and combinations I have a connection diagram I use to keep it all straight....lol.
   
  The pre amp I use has a headphone amp, and its excellent.
   
  I agree for background listening almost any material is ok etc....
   
  I use JRiver as well...bitperfect with several dacs.
   
  All are so very close in sound etc...I really have a hard time discerning them from one another.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## shrews

so I was reading a post about someone using ODAC with no amp, straight to the headphones...would this work with shure srh-840 or is it a bad/stupid idea ? It would be ideal for me as I wouldn't really need an amp otherwise...after plugging the headphones in the hp jack of my iphone 4 and cranking up the volume, it is way too loud and I failed to notice significant improvements using a LOD (which to my surprise is also rather loud unamped).
  In any case until I read that post I was of the idea that it was not possible for a standalone dac to work without an amp, and I was thinking of combining the dac with something affordable like the pa2v2.
  I'm probably missing something (heaps!) here, any help is very much appreciated...


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





shrews said:


> so I was reading a post about someone using ODAC with no amp, straight to the headphones...would this work with shure srh-840 or is it a bad/stupid idea ? It would be ideal for me as I wouldn't really need an amp otherwise...after plugging the headphones in the hp jack of my iphone 4 and cranking up the volume, it is way too loud and I failed to notice significant improvements using a LOD (which to my surprise is also rather loud unamped).
> In any case until I read that post I was of the idea that it was not possible for a standalone dac to work without an amp, and I was thinking of combining the dac with something affordable like the pa2v2.
> I'm probably missing something (heaps!) here, any help is very much appreciated...


 
   
  On the operating instructions that come with the ODAC, it specifies that you should not connect headphones into the 3.5mm jack on the ODAC, and that you absolutely need an amp.


----------



## lorriman

shrews said:


> so I was reading a post about someone using ODAC with no amp, straight to the headphones...would this work with shure srh-840 or is it a bad/stupid idea ?




There's voltage/signal but no power (current). You need power to get that voice-coil moving. So, yes it may give audio but likely with major distortion and compression, possible even overheat the ODAC when plugged in to a low-impedance headphones.

It depends on the srh840, but you might be able to get away with a FII0 E5 for $25, which the O2 designer tested and is near hifi (just a tiny bit of noise, but I doubt it would be detectable with those phones). However I don't know the power requirement of those phones.


----------



## adydula

The ODAC was designed to be used with an amplifier....
   
  Alex


----------



## shrews

alrighty then, thanks very much for the replies! I think I'll try out the odac-e5 combo then, and if it's not great I'll probably end up getting an O2. In any case looks like I've some time to decide since it's out of stock till march (uk version). thanks again!


----------



## Kirnupiima

Ordered mine from Head 'n' HiFi, already shipped! Can't wait  And it comes in red


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





shrews said:


> alrighty then, thanks very much for the replies! I think I'll try out the odac-e5 combo then, and if it's not great I'll probably end up getting an O2. In any case looks like I've some time to decide since it's out of stock till march (uk version). thanks again!


 
  Yeah the e5 is definitely gonna choke that chain. Spend a little more is my advice.


----------



## Shultz

Just received my Odac from Headnhifi, works great on the lappy, but my Nexus7 doesn't seem to offer enough power for it (a sabre based dac works fine) so wondering if anybodies made a rechargable usb hub or such like to boost it as where I sit to listen to music doesn't have mains nearby and with a young child a trailing lead is a no-no lol


----------



## Poimandres

Does anyone have the dacport lx and the odac? Looking for some comparisons.


----------



## mac336

what is the best method for connecting my ipad to the ODAC


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> what is the best method for connecting my ipad to the ODAC


 
   
  USB?


----------



## Kirnupiima

Is a high frequency ripple noise sound normal with ~80max and up in volume?
  Edit: That was with RCA connection, With the 3,5mm plug it's a lot worse for some reason.
  Edit2: Odac was not the culprit. It were the analog inputs in my NuForce HDP which were noisy. Something to be done about those? The preamp function would be useful.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





kirnupiima said:


> Is a high frequency ripple noise sound normal with ~80max and up in volume?
> Edit: That was with RCA connection, With the 3,5mm plug it's a lot worse for some reason.
> Edit2: Odac was not the culprit. It were the analog inputs in my NuForce HDP which were noisy. Something to be done about those? The preamp function would be useful.


 
   
  Use Digital Volume control on your audio Player .


----------



## Kirnupiima

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> Use Digital Volume control on your audio Player .


 
  That is not a solution I'm afraid. Digital volume is at full so lowering it is not really a good plan
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'll think of something. Maybe it's finally time for a proper analog mixer to be introduced to the setup. (sorry, OT)


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> USB?


 

 yes, but i need a power source


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





kirnupiima said:


> Is a high frequency ripple noise sound normal with ~80max and up in volume?
> Edit: That was with RCA connection, With the 3,5mm plug it's a lot worse for some reason.
> Edit2: Odac was not the culprit. It were the analog inputs in my NuForce HDP which were noisy. Something to be done about those? The preamp function would be useful.


 

 For me it sounds like the NuForce HDP input stage's beeing clipped. ODAC output is 2Vrms, so in that case only solution I can think of is to lower the volume on ODAC (in PC).


----------



## Kirnupiima

Quote: 





dano91 said:


> For me it sounds like the NuForce HDP input stage's beeing clipped. ODAC output is 2Vrms, so in that case only solution I can think of is to lower the volume on ODAC (in PC).


 
  Thanks for the tips guys. Lowering the volume in windows mixer unfortunately does not silence the noise, even if muted. It's usually not a problem but sometimes a movie may have to be turned pretty high up (~70% of the potentiometer range) so the noise will be audible too.
   
  You maybe right about the clipping, I'm not very familiar with the numbers but that did no do it this time.


----------



## beaver316

I have a question about the Windows settings with the odac. Im using mine with foobar + wasapi set to 24 bit in foobar.
   
  In Windows audio settings should I set the odac to 24 bit, 96000 Hz Studio quality or does this not matter? I know that the windows mixer is bypassed when wasapi is enabled, but does that mean that whatever is set here doesn't matter? I've always had it at 16 bit, 44100 Hz CD quality since that's what most internet videos and streams use.


----------



## adydula

44.1khz / 24 bits.
   
  Only change to higher bit depth when you actually have songs that have been done in the higher bit depth.
   
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





adydula said:


> 44.1khz / 24 bits.
> 
> Only change to higher bit depth when you actually have songs that have been done in the higher bit depth.
> 
> Alex


 
   
  Not sure I understand you fully here. So you're saying I should set it to 44.1 KHz / 24 bits in the windows settings? So the windows mixer is not bypassed when wasapi is used?


----------



## adydula

take a look at this link and the setup PDF.....
   
http://highresolutiontechnologies.com/pdf/vista_win_7_setup.pdf
   
  Its for another DAC but the idea and setup are similar..
   
  I chatted with one of the dev engineers and this is the setting they suggest for 98% of what we listen to ie 44.1khz.16bit...
   
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Thanks for that but it doesnt really explain anything. That setup doesnt assume the user is using wasapi so of course you should set it to what most of your music is. But my question remains, when wasapi is used the windows mixer is completely bypassed so shouldnt it not matter what is selected in the windows settings?


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> Thanks for that but it doesnt really explain anything. That setup doesnt assume the user is using wasapi so of course you should set it to what most of your music is. But my question remains, when wasapi is used the windows mixer is completely bypassed so shouldnt it not matter what is selected in the windows settings?


 

 You seem to answer your own question. If wasapi  is bypassing the setting then no, it doesn't matter what setting you have. Of course, we sometimes have sounds and music coming from programs other than foobar, so that is when the settings matter.


----------



## beaver316

I was somewhat sure I was right, I just wanted confirmation. A lot of people still seem to think the windows settings matter even when wasapi is in use.


----------



## adydula

Using WASAPI, which is Windows ASIO etc...make sure you have the software player set to exclusive access as well as in the advanced playback settings in windows so the device is in exclusive use mode...or re-sampling may occur....
   
  Setting the WIN 7 to 44.1/24 bits is a good thing to do anyway it doesnt hurt...I have seen people reset things to default and back to Win Direct Sound Mode and not even know it..
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

How early does the treble roll off on the ODAC? 10khz? Specs are 19khz, but it sure doesn't seem like it..
  Am I the only one that seems like it's treble is almost too polite? Even the Ipod Touch 2G sounds like it has more treble..
  Am I hearing things? It's not my amp or headphone.
  Still love the ODAC, but this one almost seems dark. Impossible I guess. It's treble reminds me of the SCPH-1001/PS1. Stupid I know..
   
  Maybe my hearing stops at 10khz


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> How early does the treble roll off on the ODAC? 10khz? Specs are 19khz, but it sure doesn't seem like it..
> Am I the only one that seems like it's treble is almost too polite? Even the Ipod Touch 2G sounds like it has more treble..
> Am I hearing things? It's not my amp or headphone.
> Still love the ODAC, but this one almost seems dark. Impossible I guess. It's treble reminds me of the SCPH-1001/PS1. Stupid I know..
> ...


 
   
  The designer's chart measures the frequency response as +/-0.1 dBA from 10Hz to 19kHz. Unless the FR curve has a majorly steep slope right at 19kHz, I suspect there's no audible roll-off until "well above" 19kHz.
   
  He also shows oscope measurements of THD+N from 20Hz to 20kHz, which leads me to suspect there's no significant roll-off at 19kHz.
   
  Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer and I suspect my old ears roll-off "well below" 19kHz.


----------



## tdockweiler

Can someone please tell me it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE for a USB cable to rob my DJ100 of treble?
  I know it's all 1s and 0s and all that nonsense, but I discovered something beyond weird today. Technically impossible you'd think.
   
  My DJ100 tonight was sounding really dark. Like everything wasn't too clear and kind of more congested than it should be.
  I had the ODAC connected up with a Monoprice gold plated (as if that mattered!) USB cable with a ferrite bead on it. It actually is going to a powered USB hub.
   
  I removed the two ferrite core cables and everything is back to normal. Not a subtle difference. I switched to ones the same size but with no gold plating and no ferrite bead.  I know that USB cables can't alter the sound, but maybe it's just they're low quality or something.
   
  I have no idea.
   
  Before someone says i'm nuts, try it. Don't think about it. Try the ODAC with a Magni or O2 and a warm headphone that's slightly dark. Sometimes that's still sightly revealing and not open. On the DJ100 it's very audible.
   
  My guess will be that it's just that the ones without a ferrite core are just higher quality...
   
  Maybe this is why I'm having issues with the ODACs treble? I originally heard this previously, but passed it off as impossible and that I was hearing things...
   
  Today my HD-650 was also sounding a bit too dark...I think in another post I mentioned the Ipod Touch 2G seemed to have more treble than the ODAC...now it's pretty close.
   
  I guess that it doesn't matter much now that my DJ100 is sounding better.
   
  Some things i'll never figure out I think...
   
  NOTE: I didn't swap out any other cables or make any other changes.
   
  EDIT: Found some good posts here on the subject:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/353613/high-quality-usb-cable-for-usb-dac/75#post_4753989
  http://www.headphiles.org/index.php?t=msg&goto=258470&


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Can someone please tell me it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE for a USB cable to rob my DJ100 of treble?


 
   
  Binary audio data has to be corrupted in a highly regular manner or the result is noise. Why would corruption affect "treble bits" and not "mid-range" or "bass bits?"
   
  While it's theoretically possible, as is winning the grand prize in a Lotto two times running, it is also so improbable that "virtually IMPOSSIBLE" is a good way of putting it.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Binary audio data has to be corrupted in a highly regular manner or the result is noise. Why would corruption affect "treble bits" and not "mid-range" or "bass bits?"
> 
> While it's theoretically possible, as is winning the grand prize in a Lotto two times running, it is also so improbable that "virtually IMPOSSIBLE" is a good way of putting it.


 
   
  I think there's more to it than just the lack of treble. I just now tried my Q701 and HD-650 with the different cables and there is a definite difference here too. Even the people who designed USB say not to use Ferrite Beads for USB audio, so I think i'll trust them.
   
  This isn't a big deal to me to begin with. I didn't have to pay for new cables. It's just strange that I've been told all along to use ferrite beads with USB cables for the ODAC, but it actually just results in even worse audio quality. I guess some won't hear any difference.
   
  Here's a quote directly from USB.org:
   
  Quote: 





> 4.   What are the most common signal quality design mistakes?
> 
> A:   Signal Quality is a mandatory test. See the signal quality test description for details. Most problems are the result of EMI "control" components like ferrite beads mounted on the signal lines. Often, these manage to destroy the integrity of the signal as well as make emissions worse.


 
   
  Another useful quote from wavoman:
   
   
  Quote: 





> This is absolutely correct and has been discussed in dozens of posts here before. usb.org makes it absolutley clear that ferrite beads should not be used for streaming audio, since they can cause timing problems. Manufacturers use them anyway to pass emission tests, even good companies like Kimber. But they should not.
> 
> This is not file transfer. All the bits can arrive correctly, but if the timing is off the sound will be off. The usb receiving side can and will miss edge transitions if you use a crap cable with big ass ferrites.


----------



## chrislangley4253




----------



## skamp

tdockweiler said:


> How early does the treble roll off on the ODAC? 10khz? Specs are 19khz, but it sure doesn't seem like it..




The ODAC is ruler flat, there's no rolloff to speak of:


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I think there's more to it than just the lack of treble. I just now tried my Q701 and HD-650 with the different cables and there is a definite difference here too. Even the people who designed USB say not to use Ferrite Beads for USB audio, so I think i'll trust them.
> 
> This isn't a big deal to me to begin with. I didn't have to pay for new cables. It's just strange that I've been told all along to use ferrite beads with USB cables for the ODAC, but it actually just results in even worse audio quality. I guess some won't hear any difference.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's good that you have done research, but the quotes provided don't show any evidence that beads could create a treble shift. The problem, to quote one of Wavoman's sources (which he seems not to have understood) is
   
   


> _The USB spec discourages the use of ferrite beads because they may slow a data signal’s edges *to where a USB device no longer recognizes bits.*_


 
   
  Bit loss = random noise. Not a consistent pitch shift, because that's not how digital systems work. I suppose the ODAC might, just conceivably, implement some scheme where it uses an algorithm to detect lost bits dues to "smearing" and replace them, and this is producing a pitch shift with the music you are listening to, but I doubt it. So can I suggest that you contact the maker of your dac and ask for their advice? It be nice if you could provide them and us with recordings. And tell us what they say, please!
   
  Oh - the other problem to appreciate is that the main way usb audio differs from usb data transfer to "normal" devices is that it is trying to be real time. If bits go missing in a transfer to a camera, it asks for a resend. But if bits were being sent to a DAC and they are missed, it's too late.


----------



## lorriman

Have you compared it to a source and amp with similar specs?


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





scuttle said:


> It's good that you have done research, but the quotes provided don't show any evidence that beads could create a treble shift. The problem, to quote one of Wavoman's sources (which he seems not to have understood) is


 
   
  Nope. No evidence and I'm not trying to prove anything here. I just know that all my headphones are sounding much better and I won't ever be able to explain why. I just know that all I had to do was switch to some other USB cables I had around. Both of them are probably from Monoprice. Possible sound improvements for free? Can't hurt to try.
   
  I did have two cables with two ferrite beads, so maybe that was overkill.
   
  The whole point of my post was to suggest people to try the ODAC with both types of USB cables and see if they can hear any difference. No point of using Ferrite beads if theres even a 1% chance of degraded audio.  I read somewhere that the ODAC was better with ferrite beads on the USB cable. Mine even shipped with one that had a ferrite bead.
   
  I should point out that my cables are maybe 3-4 feet long, so maybe there is no issues with a 1 foot cable that has a ferrite bead. I've read that the shorter the cable the better.
   
  Maybe it's not the ferrite bead. What a mystery...


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Nope. No evidence and I'm not trying to prove anything here. I just know that all my headphones are sounding much better and I won't ever be able to explain why. I just know that all I had to do was switch to some other USB cables I had around. Both of them are probably from Monoprice. Possible sound improvements for free? Can't hurt to try.
> 
> I did have two cables with two ferrite beads, so maybe that was overkill.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, there definitely is such a thing as a not good enough USB cable, and you are right to suspect ferrite beads as a source of problems - it's just intriguing that a uniform shift in pitch is the result!


----------



## Taowolf51

Wow, I've only heard that ferrite beads help with an audio signal. I had no idea it was actually a bad thing. I wonder why the ODAC comes with a ferrite beaded USB cable.


----------



## Satellite_6

It comes with a ferrite beaded USB cable because the designer noted that this type of cable gets slightly better noise performance out of the ODAC. It is completely utterly moronic to think that it results in worse sound!
   
  Without a volume matched blind test one could hear differences in frequency balance just because of the volume used or could simply be suffering from the placebo effect, quite obviously in this case.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





satellite_6 said:


> It comes with a ferrite beaded USB cable because the designer noted that this type of cable gets slightly better noise performance out of the ODAC. It is completely utterly moronic to think that it results in worse sound!


 
   
  Reading the docs from USB org etc, a badly implemented ferrite bead CAN result in worse sound. It doesn't HAVE to, but it's not moronic to suspect that, when there is a problem associated with a cable, that it is associated with the bead. If you think otherwise, explain why referring to the doc at usb.org.
   
  -


----------



## Satellite_6

Quote: 





scuttle said:


> Reading the docs from USB org etc, a badly implemented ferrite bead CAN result in worse sound. It doesn't HAVE to, but it's not moronic to suspect that, when there is a problem associated with a cable, that it is associated with the bead. If you think otherwise, explain why referring to the doc at usb.org.
> 
> -


 
  Well without proof I suggest you stop making absurd assumptions.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





satellite_6 said:


> It comes with a ferrite beaded USB cable because the designer noted that this type of cable gets slightly better noise performance out of the ODAC. It is completely utterly moronic to think that it results in worse sound!
> 
> Without a volume matched blind test one could hear differences in frequency balance just because of the volume used or could simply be suffering from the placebo effect, quite obviously in this case.


 
   
  Instead of trolling a forum and calling people morons, why don't you try it with your own ears and report back? Wait, you won't because you might be wrong and this is NOT POSSIBLE! Quit making such a big deal out of nothing. If you don't believe it, who cares? Nobody is endorsing $100 audiophile cables here. Most people have extra USB cables around. It takes a whole minute to switch a USB cable.
   
  Oh god..enough with the placebo and volume matching nonsense. I'd love to do this if I actually wanted to prove something to someone. I don't.
   
  It's just as "completely utterly moronic" to automatically think the ODAC will sound best just because the designer included a ferrite bead USB cable.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> Wow, I've only heard that ferrite beads help with an audio signal. I had no idea it was actually a bad thing. I wonder why the ODAC comes with a ferrite beaded USB cable.


 
   
  It's possible there is no audible difference with some headphones and the included cables 1 foot length. Not sure.
   
  A good test would be to try to use a longer length (like 5 feet) and try many different headphones. A closed and very revealing headphone is best.
   
  I wonder what would happen if you placed 10 Ferrite beads on a USB cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







   
  Sorry, I'm easily amused..
   
  Wait! No audible difference, requires volume matching and blind A/B test. All placebo!
   
  EDIT: I just switched back between cables again and it's definitely very audible. Less so on my Magni and open headphones. On my DJ100 it makes everything seem more congested and warmer, like the lower mids are more forward and there is less treble. If anyone tests this, try it with any music that's warm and has a larger soundstage. I tried some Tony Bennett recordings and "Buena Vista Social club". Recordings that can often sound congested on a very warm headphone are best.
   
  I bet a good headphone to test the differences would be the M50 or a bassier headphone that has slightly rolled off treble. Even the HD-650 might do the trick.
   
  What it sounds like is what happens I connect my Headphone amps up to a MOV based surge protector, but even worse. Same symptoms almost.
   
  EDIT 2: I just bypassed my USB hub (powered) and went directly to my computer. I switched between a 1' USB cable with ferrite core and a 1' USB cable with. It's stupid easy to tell the difference.  This was with the DJ100 and Headroom Micro Amp and ODAC. Similar results with HD-650. I highly doubt there can be an audible difference between USB cables even without the ferrite core (I know the whole 1s and 0s thing).
   
  Hey, maybe it's the gold plating degrading the sound!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Only kidding...
   
  I think this has to be the most bizarre thing I've encountered in years.


----------



## Taowolf51

Is it possible that your cable is simply faulty?


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> Is it possible that your cable is simply faulty?


 
   
  I have two 1' Monoprice cables with Ferrite cores that are brand new. Maybe I can dig up another one with a ferrite that's just as short and made by someone else. There is always the chance they're not very high quality, but Monoprice stuff is generally very good. I like their interconnect cables.
   
  The only ones I have right in front of me are too long.
   
  It was a joke at first, but it seriously would be funny to see what happens when you put a ton of ferrite beads on a USB cable. It'll be one of my stupid experiments for "research". Like the time I made an interconnect cable with stupid lamp cord. Dumbest thing I ever did.
   
  I'm going to retire from this silly hobby if there is zero audible change to my ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My Magni is really noisy so I can see how a ferrite USB cable can help. It did for me. Instead I put a ferrite bead on it's power cable.


----------



## Satellite_6

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Instead of trolling a forum and calling people morons, why don't you try it with your own ears and report back? Wait, you won't because you might be wrong and this is NOT POSSIBLE! Quit making such a big deal out of nothing. If you don't believe it, who cares? Nobody is endorsing $100 audiophile cables here. Most people have extra USB cables around. It takes a whole minute to switch a USB cable.
> 
> Oh god..enough with the placebo and volume matching nonsense. I'd love to do this if I actually wanted to prove something to someone. I don't.
> 
> It's just as "completely utterly moronic" to automatically think the ODAC will sound best just because the designer included a ferrite bead USB cable.


 
  If it's not possible I can't be wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You are spreading extremely ignorant opinions which I find annoying.
   
  Yes the designer is clearly the idiot here.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





satellite_6 said:


> If it's not possible I can't be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If my posts are annoying, just ignore them or block me. Your posts annoy me too, especially when you preach about cables and try to crap all over every thread.
   
  I'm telling people what I'm hearing and to test things for themselves, but then someone (you) has to act childish about it and claim we're all hearing things.
   
  Too much drama over something that's probably free and takes 1 minute to correct.
   
  If my posts are ignorant opinions, feel free to prove that ferrite cores 100% do not degrade audio in any way with every setup. Good luck with that.
   
  Oh and the fact that my setup sounds better without ferrite bead cables is NOT an opinion.
   
  It's interesting that you're willing to ignore what's posted on the USB website suggesting to not use ferrite core cables for audio, yet you think it's 100% OK (without any testing) just because you got a free USB ferrite cable with your ODAC. Wow, weird. Not every setup needs that ferrite core. Mine doesn't.
   
  EDIT: so here is what people can do if they think i'm nuts. Try an ODAC with and without a ferrite bead. If you don't have a spare cable..skip it. Don't notice any difference? Then use whatever cable looks nicer. I would probably fail the test with my Q701 or if using the Magni. I just know i'm glad I tried a "regular" USB cable.


----------



## tomb

The ODAC is USB-powered.  Anyone who states that the cable doesn't make a difference under that scenario is misguided.  Why the heck do some USB cables come shielded (the standard) but others do not (keyboard, mice)?  Further, why do some USB cables come with chokes*?  Think a run-of-the-mill cable manufacturer - having nothing to do with audiophile sensibilities - is going to make that kind of investment/product if it has no effect?
   
   
  * I prefer that term than ferrite "bead."   A fer_rite bead_ is a small SMD part on the PCB, IMHO.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





tomb said:


> The ODAC is USB-powered.  Anyone who states that the cable doesn't make a difference under that scenario is misguided.  Why the heck do some USB cables come shielded (the standard) but others do not (keyboard, mice)?  Further, why do some USB cables come with chokes*?  Think a run-of-the-mill cable manufacturer - having nothing to do with audiophile sensibilities - is going to make that kind of investment/product if it has no effect?
> 
> 
> * I prefer that term than ferrite "bead."   A fer_rite bead_ is a small SMD part on the PCB, IMHO.


 
   
  Any electrical cable (shielded, braided, beaded, or otherwise) may be subject to EMI and RFI. Over a USB connection, however, treble roll-off, improved soundstage, etc., are not due to different cables. Claims to the contrary are false and contradict fundamental principles of USB audio, rhetorical questions aside.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Satellite_6* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok: I get that you think that you are a lot smarter than you actually are. But
   
  1. usb.org, the site of the usb standards body, says that signal deformation is possible with a poor cable; if you disagree with these people - who are actual engineers *who have tested *- then you need to say why
   
  2. Idiots of a certain kind all over the Internet think that DAC transfer is just like transfer to a data pen. _This is because they are too stupid to RTFM and understand that different protocols are used._
   
  3. If you were smart enough to look at the site of the ODAC's designer, which unfortunately I can't link to, he gives a good explanation of signal loss in cables carrying digital information in his discussion on jitter
   
  Now, what is NOT true is that there are audiophile cables worth paying lots of money for. But broken cables, that can cause signal loss - yes.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Any electrical cable (shielded, braided, beaded, or otherwise) may be subject to EMI and RFI. Over a USB connection, however, treble roll-off, improved soundstage, etc., are not due to different cables. Claims to the contrary are false and contradict fundamental principles of USB audio, rhetorical questions aside.


 
   
  Yep. The effects of bad usb cables are limited, as far as I can see, to noise and jitter. At least unless you postulate a DAC that is using an algorithm to replace missing bits and that algorithm is biased a certain way, which could happen theoretically, but there is no evidence for.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





satellite_6 said:


> If it's not possible I can't be wrong.


 
   
  Unless, of course, you are stupid enough not to know what is and is not impossible. Which indeed is the case when you say that a poor cable implementation can't make ANY difference to sound quality. Hint: google the ODAC designer's name and "jitter"...


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> EDIT 2: I just bypassed my USB hub (powered) and went directly to my computer. I switched between a 1' USB cable with ferrite core and a 1' USB cable with. It's stupid easy to tell the difference.  This was with the DJ100 and Headroom Micro Amp and ODAC. Similar results with HD-650. I highly doubt there can be an audible difference between USB cables even without the ferrite core (I know the whole 1s and 0s thing).
> 
> Hey, maybe it's the gold plating degrading the sound!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
  Why not just record the output of the DAC and post two different files, without saying which is which?
   
  And contact the DAC manufacturer?


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Any electrical cable (shielded, braided, beaded, or otherwise) may be subject to EMI and RFI. Over a USB connection, however, treble roll-off, improved soundstage, etc., are not due to different cables. Claims to the contrary are false and contradict fundamental principles of USB audio, rhetorical questions aside.


 
  Read my post a little more closely next time.  _The ODAC is USB-powered._  Where do you think the analog power output comes from?  That makes the analog signal potentially subject to everything that happens in that cable.
   
  I'm getting tired of repeating that in this thread.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seen any posts about people stating that a high-quality powered-USB hub makes a difference, too?  Gee, I wonder why that would be ...


----------



## Kirnupiima

Speaking of bad power, has anyone else had problems with Odac just going mute about once a day? It still shows up in windows sound devices but for example cannot play the test sample. I have tried switching USB ports and the cable. It needs to be plugged out and back in to work again.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





tomb said:


> Read my post a little more closely next time.  _The ODAC is USB-powered._  Where do you think the analog power output comes from?  That makes the analog signal potentially subject to everything that happens in that cable.


 
   
   
  Potentially, yes. If you look at the Nameless One's website there is some very interesting discussion of the power supply:
   
  - Tweaking it was a major issue in getting the full performance of the chipset out of the DAC
   
  - _The Nameless One found that that power supply filtering past certain levels increased jitter_ - so he stopped short of maximum filtering, which should reasonably men that the ODAC is more vulnerable to bad USB cables than less optimized designs
   
  - The ODAC uses split digital and analog power supplies each with their own filtering and regulation. The analog chain has additional filtering and the critical reference voltages, and negative supply for the DAC chip, are further optimized. 
   
  ..Obviously, he wouldn't gone to this much trouble if this was not a big issue.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





kirnupiima said:


> Speaking of bad power, has anyone else had problems with Odac just going mute about once a day? It still shows up in windows sound devices but for example cannot play the test sample. I have tried switching USB ports and the cable. It needs to be plugged out and back in to work again.


 
   
  Speaking as a programmer, this sounds like a Windows problem. Windows just does weird stuff. The idea that it can be used for critical applications terrifies every programmer I know...


----------



## lorriman

scuttle said:


> Speaking as a programmer, this sounds like a Windows problem. Windows just does weird stuff. The idea that it can be used for critical applications terrifies every programmer I know...




It's happened (just once) to me also (sudden muting of ODAC, requiring replug). But I don't think it's ever happened with my onboard audio. I don't have another USB DAC.


----------



## lorriman

Always fun to join a battle. :-D .

I have a 60cm cheapo ebay USB cable without a ferrite bead collar, and I have my quite solid clip+ 12cm cable with ferrite bead. 

Listening (non DBT) with etymotics, O2/ODAC to folk and electro and I can't hear a difference.

Disclaimer, my expectation bias was : to not hear a difference.  

The result of this worthless attempt is that I haven't tested the question in an objective manner, I've meaninglessly added a worthless opinion and I am happy to use ferrite-beadless cables with a much more convenient length to them and will not bother buying a more expensive one.

Ha ha!!!


----------



## kingoftown1

lorriman said:


> It's happened (just once) to me also (sudden muting of ODAC, requiring replug). But I don't think it's ever happened with my onboard audio. I don't have another USB DAC.



I was having the same problem until I put my PC on a UPS with voltage regulation. Haven't had a drop out since.


----------



## lorriman

kingoftown1 said:


> I was having the same problem until I put my PC on a UPS with voltage regulation. Haven't had a drop out since.




Which reminds me, when I turn my electric heater on or off I get a sharp transient.


----------



## adydula

A usb cable has a  +VDC and a GND or -VDC.
  A usb cable has a +Data and a -Data. 
   
  The voltage is DC, not analog.
  The Data is DC not analog.
   
  Any AC being introduced in the lines from the PC should be handled by the Choke in the ODAC.
  Any induced RFI or EMI should be handled by the shield of the cable and the ferrite bead.
   
   

   
  Alex


----------



## lorriman

adydula said:


> Any AC being introduced in the lines from the PC should be handled by the Choke in the ODAC.




AFAIK a choke is effectively the same as a ferrite bead. And it's doing the same job as a ferrite bead. One of the reasons why my expectation bias was against hearing any difference because the ODAC designer already had this covered.

And I don't think chokes have anything to do with AC, but I could be wrong. That would be diodes and capacitors.


----------



## adydula

rather than re-writing this in my own words: Chokes definitelty have something to do with AC.
   
  A *ferrite bead* is a passive electric component used to suppress high frequency noise in electronic circuits. It is a specific type of electronic choke. Ferrite beads employ the dissipation of high frequency currents in a ferrite ceramic to build high frequency noise suppression devices. Ferrite beads may also be called blocks, cores, rings, EMI filters, or chokes.[size=x-small][1][/size]
   
  The name comes from blocking—“choking”—high frequencies while passing low frequencies. It is a functional name; the same inductor is often called a “choke” if used to block higher frequencies, but a “coil” or “inductor” if, say, part of a tuned circuit.
   
  Ferrite beads are one of the simplest and least expensive types of interference filters to install on preexisting electronic cabling. For a simple ferrite ring, the wire is simply wrapped around the core through the center typically 5 or 7 times. Clamp-on cores are also available, which can be attached without wrapping the wire at all. Although the wire is not coiled around the core for this type of ferrite bead, the introduction of the ferrite core around the wire increases the self-inductance of the wire and thus still has the effect of absorbing energy from the noise traveling in the wire. If the fit is not snug enough, the core can be secured with cable ties, or if the center is large enough, have the cabling looped through one or more times. Small ferrite beads may be slipped over component leads to suppress parasitic oscillation.[size=x-small][2][/size]
   
[size=x-small]A *choke* is a coil of insulated wire, often wound on a magnetic core, used as a passive inductor which blocks higher-frequency alternating current (ac) in an electrical circuit while passing signals of much lower frequency and direct current by having an impedance largely determined by reactance, which is proportional to frequency. Chokes are typically used as the inductive components in electronic filters.[/size]
   
[size=x-small]Alex[/size]


----------



## adydula

let me add that many poeple really do not understand AC, AF, RF, DC what these things really are and how to they relate if at all.
   
  i could sit here and BS you with things like: hey what frequency is the DC for the USB buss that supplies the USB Power to the ODAC?
   
  the idea for a usb cable that shielded and or has a ferrite bead....it to try to remove or keep out unwanted noise from entering the ODAC or circuitry in any way....either coupled or induced or coming from inside on the power or data lines.
   
  sources for errant noise are
   
  1. From inside the PC, induced usually via radiation.
  2. RFI or EMI into the cable outside of the PC, from a stong magnetic source, electrical source ac , etc...
   
  there is no way this type of interferance would normally affect the digital bits from the pc to the dac....it would have to really be somthing very powerful to negate the full amplitude of the digital bits....or interfere with the timing between  bits.
   
  if your envionment is fairly 'clean' you could use plain wires without shielding or grounding on one end....and all would be fine.
   
  using a ferrite bead vs no-ferrite bead should not attenuate any of the actual content of those difital bits..there is no real way that a ferrite bead to remove these bits which if it could could then affect the downstream sound....
   
  a ferrite bead is a passive device, it just is there....and when unwanted AC comes along...it help reduce or remove it from getting into the ODAC etc....so other wierd stuff wont happen...
   
  Alex


----------



## lorriman

adydula said:


> rather than re-writing this in my own words: Chokes definitelty have something to do with AC.




Ah, I see. But, seriously, since when did anyone but a student talk of RF as AC? If you say 'AC' then no one is going to understand that you mean anything other than low frequency AC from power rails etc. After all, chokes/beads block high frequencies, not what is commonly understood when one says 'AC'.


----------



## adydula

if you dont understand it, then you dont understand it...so the ignorance keeps on going and people guess and make incorrect assumptions....ac circuit theory and dc circuit theory.....two seperate worlds but intertwine.....its very, very basic but to many its really confusing...take some time and try to understand the differences etc..
   
  I am years out of the formal college days but am a student for life....
   
  and I am still learning....
   
  Alex


----------



## chrislangley4253

So... My Odac sometimes crashes when I plug other things into the wall.. that's always cool.

 It used to crash when I would change the speed setting on my fan too. I wasn't sure what to blame and it didn't/doesn't bother me enough to complain. I just figured I'd see if anyone else had a problem like this or knew why it happened.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> So... My Odac sometimes crashes when I plug other things into the wall.. that's always cool.
> 
> It used to crash when I would change the speed setting on my fan too. I wasn't sure what to blame and it didn't/doesn't bother me enough to complain. I just figured I'd see if anyone else had a problem like this or knew why it happened.


 
   
  Is it a standalone ODAC or an ODAC+O2 combo? What does "crash" mean in this case?


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> So... My Odac sometimes crashes when I plug other things into the wall.. that's always cool.
> 
> It used to crash when I would change the speed setting on my fan too. I wasn't sure what to blame and it didn't/doesn't bother me enough to complain. I just figured I'd see if anyone else had a problem like this or knew why it happened.


 
  You're having power problems.  Pick up an automatic voltage regulator of some sort and plug the device powering your odac into it.  That should fix your dropouts.


----------



## mmayer167

Yup, sometimes mine will cut out. Not very often but it's usually when i'm turning something on or off, or switching something on my comp. I've had my ODAC since they first came out and it's still going strong at over 1500 hours of use. 
   
  ~M


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





scuttle said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  +1
   
  I have had this problem two or three times over a period of eight months or so (not once a day) with a Behringer UCA-222. I never considered reconnecting it, but rebooting has restored the audio. Although I haven't had a similar problem on the PC with the ODAC, I shut it down every night, a process which tends to hide some O/S defects.


----------



## Br777

i may have had this issue too. but to clarify it doesnt go mute mid stream..   I am quite confident this is indeed a windows issue and not the dac.  windows often gets confused especially with devices that use exclusive mode and especially if you have several devices plugged into your computer that utilize audio such as cameras, mics, etc...  or when you have several different frequently used programs that utilize audio, ex. your browser, a softphone, your music player software... 
   
  i have had this issue with other listening setups that didnt include the odac.
   
  and yes unplugging the dac and plugging it back in always solves the issue for me too.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Is it a standalone ODAC or an ODAC+O2 combo? What does "crash" mean in this case?


 
   
  Stop playing music. foobar2k throws an error at me and I have to push play to get the music to come back on.
  Quote: 





kingoftown1 said:


> You're having power problems.  Pick up an automatic voltage regulator of some sort and plug the device powering your odac into it.  That should fix your dropouts.


 
  I will look into them, thanks.


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> Stop playing music. foobar2k throws an error at me and I have to push play to get the music to come back on.
> I will look into them, thanks.


 

 oh.  My specific issue was that music would keep playing but no sound would come out, so I'd have to replug the odac.  Nevertheless, if it only happens when you're plugging/unplugging other unrelated devices I'd still say it has to be power issues


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





kingoftown1 said:


> oh.  My specific issue was that music would keep playing but no sound would come out, so I'd have to replug the odac.  Nevertheless, if it only happens when you're plugging/unplugging other unrelated devices I'd still say it has to be power issues


 
   
  That's the symptom I see. No errors, no warnings, just no sound.


----------



## Kirnupiima

Quote: 





kingoftown1 said:


> oh.  My specific issue was that music would keep playing but no sound would come out, so I'd have to replug the odac.  Nevertheless, if it only happens when you're plugging/unplugging other unrelated devices I'd still say it has to be power issues


 
  This is what happens to me also. It might also just get jammed; if I look at the frequency spectrum it starts to stutter and no sound comes out
   
  I've noticed it might start again by itself after 10-15 seconds. It could be a tell of a power drop and that's the time it takes to get online again.


----------



## kingoftown1

kirnupiima said:


> This is what happens to me also. It might also just get jammed; if I look at the frequency spectrum it starts to stutter and no sound comes out
> 
> I've noticed it might start again by itself after 10-15 seconds. It could be a tell of a power drop and that's the time it takes to get online again.


I think the only time I've had what you're describing happen was when my music hdd got unplugged. Haven't had any of these problems in a while though, so it's all on my wonderful memory...


----------



## PanamaHat

Can someone recommend a good usb isolator to use with the Odac? I need to get rid off DC current hiss. It's not a ground loop problem. The hiss emerges when I connect the charger to my laptop which feeds a D-link usb hub to which the Odac is connected.
   
  So far I've seen two interesting products:
   
http://electronicsshop.dk/usb2iso.htm?currency=USD
   
https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/Interface/USB-ISO/


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





panamahat said:


> http://electronicsshop.dk/usb2iso.htm?currency=USD


 
   
  I have this and it works with ODAC well. No problem so far. I also have a similar one made by BlackBox Taiwan (ElectronCTL.net, it pops up on eBay from time to time). An extremely good one will be the iFi iUSB, but that might be an overkill for ODAC.


----------



## mmayer167

Been listening to the odac through a p-51 mustang for a few days now. I think it is an excellent pairing, it goes well with the RSA house sound. Never harsh, loads of beautiful bass, and mids to lust over. Here is a picture to show how well they stack  
   
  Cheers,
   
  ~M


----------



## kingoftown1

Quote: 





clieos said:


> I have this and it works with ODAC well. No problem so far. I also have a similar one made by BlackBox Taiwan (ElectronCTL.net, it pops up on eBay from time to time). An extremely good one will be the iFi iUSB, but that might be an overkill for ODAC.


 

 Curious about this.  How did this change the sound for you?


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





kingoftown1 said:


> Curious about this.  How did this change the sound for you?


 
   
  Not much really. My USB ports have really clean power, so I don't get them for noise. I am mainly using them when doing RMAA measurement to avoid ground loop.


----------



## Phelix

I now have an ODAC+O2 from Epiphany Acoustics and while it sounds kind of attractive, I don't find it that impressive and I even have my doubts about its objectivity. It's not particularly clear or crisp, it stays kind of in the background and in effect it's like there's layer on top which is slightly muffling. Soundstage is wide, depth is there, but it never really "shines", for one (e.g. strings), due to the muffling layer which sometimes seems to be an actual, distinguishable part of the sound rather than some abstract overall effect. Maybe these things will get into perspective eventually, people are also talking about a burn-in phase of such devices, but it's not what I expected a"natural" sound to be. I'm beginning to be skeptical about the "objective" criterion per se, maybe one has to give industry engineers more credit for making use of soundstage differently to create certain effects... Maybe it's a different story for any headphone (SennheiserHD 595) + source combo. I don't know, it's just a thought.


----------



## 129207

Quote: 





phelix said:


> I now have an ODAC+O2 from Epiphany Acoustics and while it sounds kind of attractive, I don't find it that impressive and I even have my doubts about its objectivity. It's not particularly clear or crisp, it stays kind of in the background and in effect it's like there's layer on top which is slightly muffling. Soundstage is wide, depth is there, but it never really "shines", for one (e.g. strings), due to the muffling layer which sometimes seems to be an actual, distinguishable part of the sound rather than some abstract overall effect. Maybe these things will get into perspective eventually, people are also talking about a burn-in phase of such devices, but it's not what I expected a"natural" sound to be. I'm beginning to be skeptical about the "objective" criterion per se, maybe one has to give industry engineers more credit for making use of soundstage differently to create certain effects... Maybe it's a different story for any headphone (SennheiserHD 595) + source combo. I don't know, it's just a thought.


 
   
  We all say we want a neutral sound. When we get one, we realize neutral is actually pretty boring and realize we want a _musical_ sound. 
   
  For a great insight into the Objective2/ODAC phenomena, check out the comments on Headfonia's review: http://www.headfonia.com/nwavguys-objective-2-by-jdslabs-and-epiphany-acoustics/


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





negakinu said:


> We all say we want a neutral sound. When we get one, we realize neutral is actually pretty boring and realize we want a _musical_ sound.


 
   
  I was actually quite the opposite. I transitioned from a _musical_ sound to a more neutral sound over the course of about two years. It kinda takes time and a lot of exposure to music and figuring out how things are _supposed_ to sound before you figure out that what you are really after. For me, it was a _natural_ sound.. and I think it's the same for most people, unless they are chasing/seeking enhancement somewhere, be it via super micro-detailed highs or the exceptionally impressive lows or even in stand-out mids. A lot of audiophile headphones and gear sacrifice the overall sound and picture to bring something forward.. Just to make the product sound differently than the rest. It's all a _very_ delicate balance.. It's very tricky to achieve happiness when it comes to audio and sometimes trying a new piece of gear is kind of like trying a new diet or medication, sometimes you have to give your ears a bit of time to adjust to a different sound.
   
  Anyways, what I figured out was that I was after was something that presented music as transparently/naturally/neutrally as possible (all three words have become synonyms in my vocabulary because they seem to come along with each-other in this hobby). Needless to say, the ODAC and O2 satisfy me entirely when it comes to that criteria.. I will say that listening to something more "neutral" will sound very lack luster coming from something "enhanced", sometimes you just have to give the more accurate gear/headphone a bit more time. When you swap back to the more "enhanced" gear the differences should smack you in the face. Then you just have to decide whether the enhanced sound is a pro or con. That's just how it worked out for me.

 All this is strictly in my experience and opinion of course  I highly recommend when trying gear that is referred to as neutral that you give your ears some time to adjust to said gear/headphones and then flip back to your more musical/enhanced gear. You might just be surprised.. if you still favor the more colored stuff, that's just fine too!
   
  Hope this all makes sense.. I'm a little delirious from lack of sleep. Hopefully I can edit and clean-up the post later.. Happy listening everyone.
   
  P.S.. all of this stuff about giving "neutral" gear a trial period is kind of null and void if you are an actual musician, I think. You certainly have a better reference than I do.. compare your headphones and gear to your real life experience! Everyone else.. get out and see as much live music as you can  It helps figure out what sounds right and wrong.. and It's just good fun. I think I rambled.. Once again, I'm sleep deprived.


*TL;DR* -  Music is wonderful and picking differences between music gear is sometimes horrible enough to make you forget what's wonderful about the music in the first place and why you even bother to have nice gear. Never forget to enjoy your music more than your gear guys.


----------



## lorriman

phelix said:


> I now have an ODAC+O2 from Epiphany Acoustics and while it sounds kind of attractive, I don't find it that impressive and I even have my doubts about its objectivity. It's not particularly clear or crisp, it stays kind of in the background and in effect it's like there's layer on top which is slightly muffling. Soundstage is wide, depth is there, but it never really "shines", for one (e.g. strings), due to the muffling layer which sometimes seems to be an actual, distinguishable part of the sound rather than some abstract overall effect. Maybe these things will get into perspective eventually, people are also talking about a burn-in phase of such devices, but it's not what I expected a"natural" sound to be. I'm beginning to be skeptical about the "objective" criterion per se, maybe one has to give industry engineers more credit for making use of soundstage differently to create certain effects... Maybe it's a different story for any headphone (SennheiserHD 595) + source combo. I don't know, it's just a thought.




If you have a clip+ or fuze (not fuze+) then try the same tunes on that with some sensitive headphones and then through the ODAC/O2. IF it's not the same then one or other is possibly faulty. (The cllip+ does have a touch of noise but should sound identical to the ODAC). The designer measures the clip+ and it is effectively hifi so should provide a good test. 

What phones are you using? Maybe they are usually treble shy but not on your previous equipment.


----------



## adydula

phelix,
   
  If its not crisp and clear something is not right....either your source material, your setup for bitpefect etc....I have used the O2 and compared with many other high dollar amps etc...its easy to get things mucked up in the settings and also using material that might not be up to par..
   
  Tell us more about your reproduction chain etc...
   
  Also note its not natural but neutral..ie no sound of its own like a straight wire with gain...garbage in garbage out....good in good out etc.
   
  Alex


----------



## kkl10

Quote: 





kkl10 said:


> I've been searching for a nice little DAC and I'm interested in this ODAC. I've read that most USB powered DACs, and even DACs with their own power supplies, can benefit from an external cleaner power supply, instead of the dirty +5V sourced by most PCs VBus... Has anyone tried powering the ODAC with the Olimex USB isolator and a cleaner power supply? Or other cheap ADuM4160 based USB isolator? And there are devices like the AQVOX USB Low-Noise Linear Power Supply, Vaunix USB hub (Currawong says very good things of this with the ODAC), iFi iUSBPower... anyone tried these yet?


 
   
  If anyone is interested in this question I raised some time ago...
   
  I've acquired an ODAC, an Y USB cable and a 5V portable battery pack with 3Ah max output current through USB ports.
  I've been comparing the power provided by the battery to the PC VBus and I can say that there is indeed an influence in sound.
  I use electrical tape to cover the 5V pin in one of the A type leads of the USB cable, the one that provides both power and data flow.
  With the "power-only" lead I compare both sources of power by switching between them.
  The PC won't detect the ODAC with only the main lead connected to it, with the 5V pin taped, so I guess I succesfully disabled it's VBus power draw...
   
  The difference in presentation I hear is very clear on my GMP and almost subtle on my Beyer which leads me to think that this is not going to show up in gear that lacks a certain level of transparency...
  And even if it shows up it won't necessarily be an improvement, although in my case it so 'seems' to be...
   
  With the battery power supply there's more apparent spacial resolution, soundstage gains definition and size, noticeably depht, and upper treble seems more "vivid" or at least clearer, the sound is also bit more transparent and laidback.
  With the PC VBus feeding the ODAC there's a warmer presentation and everything sounds more forward, the finest spacial cues are lost. The soundstage is smaller, the bass is omnipresent and a bit bloomy which is more pleasent at times. Upper mids and treble are less clear...
   
  The funny thing though, is that what made an even bigger difference was changing the interconnects, digital USB and analog RCA cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I know this is a controversial matter, I may be digging myself into an hole, but I can't deny what I hear.
  Changing the interconnects between my components almost always imparts an influence in sound and the analog interconnects in particular sound very different between each other.
  The difference between the first interconects I had and the ones that sound best is almost as much sonic improvement as switching from the PC line out to the ODAC... believe it or not.
   
  I suspect this is because I was using cheapo 5$ cables and these may not be constructed in light of the norms they should follow... I don't know.
  On my best sounding configuration I'm using a ~12 EUR Hama Y USB 1m cable bought from Amazon UK and a ~20 EUR Profigold PROA4200 0,5m RCA interconnect.
  These cables are supposedly well constructed with twisted pairs wires, and proper shielding. They're the most expensive I have...
   
  So there you go, this applies to me only, YMMV.


----------



## scuttle

Quote: 





phelix said:


> I now have an ODAC+O2 from Epiphany Acoustics and while it sounds kind of attractive, I don't find it that impressive and I even have my doubts about its objectivity. It's not particularly clear or crisp, it stays kind of in the background and in effect it's like there's layer on top which is slightly muffling. Soundstage is wide, depth is there, but it never really "shines", for one (e.g. strings), due to the muffling layer which sometimes seems to be an actual, distinguishable part of the sound rather than some abstract overall effect. Maybe these things will get into perspective eventually, people are also talking about a burn-in phase of such devices, but it's not what I expected a"natural" sound to be. I'm beginning to be skeptical about the "objective" criterion per se, maybe one has to give industry engineers more credit for making use of soundstage differently to create certain effects... Maybe it's a different story for any headphone (SennheiserHD 595) + source combo. I don't know, it's just a thought.


 
   
  Have you tried tweaking the EQ? Veiling can be created by distortion products from high frequencies, a more "objective" amp will sometimes have a flatter fr and let more of these through, triggering distortion elsewhere in the range due to transducer imperfections. A quick solution for this is to EQ down the frequencies over 15kHz radically (like the curve of HiFiMan DAPs.) If you're out of your 20s you probably won't hear this upper range anyway.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kkl10* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I've acquired an ODAC, an Y USB cable and a 5V portable battery pack with 3Ah max output current through USB ports.
> [...]
> With the battery power supply there's more apparent spacial resolution, soundstage gains definition and size, noticeably depht, and upper treble seems more "vivid" or at least clearer, the sound is also bit more transparent and laidback


 
   
  That's not how USB power problems affect the ODAC.


----------



## kkl10

I'm aware of the USB detriments.
  This was just a particular case I wanted to share.
  I didn't address common mode noise, nor ground loops here...


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> That's not how USB power problems affect the ODAC.


 

 One possibility might be that battery tends to response to current demand much faster and higher than most poorly designed USB port (especially if others USB devices are sharing the same power). Of course it could just as well be placebo.
   
  I am quite interested in getting the iFi iUSB myself because I need to a high speed USB isolator, though will have to wait till March before I have the fund to buy it.


----------



## kkl10

That's one possibility.
  I still haven't tried to assess if the ODAC actually benefits from more current availability than what my PC can provide, I think I could clarify this easily by untaping the 5V pin in the USB main lead and see if my battery pack still lights up...
   
  I'm inclined to think that with my PC VBus the USB cable and the ODAC are subject higher levels of DC ripple, EMI, common mode noise, etc, resulting in higher Jitter...
  The USB cable I'm using is pretty standard, I think, there's no separation between the data lines and the 5V power line so there might be some level of crosstalk, through the lenght of the cable, although it supposedly has twisted pair data lines...
  Or the ODAC power filtering features are just not good enough...
   
  The difference I hear with my GMP is clear, not subtle at all, pretty sure it's not placebo... I would be more inclined to think so if I only owned the Beyerdynamic where it's almost subtle.
   
  I was interested in the iFi IUSB myself but it's just to expensive and my amp has a built-in ground lift so I think I can achieve similar result with cheaper alternatives. I'm interested in what it could do to the ODAC performance though...
   
  Another thing in which I'm interested is how an "USB over Ethernet" server could influence an USB powered DAC performance, since standard Ethernet network connections are not subject to PC Master Clock Jitter, PC power supply quality and possibly also neither common noise nor ground loops issues, if an UTP cable is used, the same way USB is. I might give it a shot in the future.


----------



## Phelix

Alright, when making sure I had all extensions turned off, I might have accidentally ticked on bass extension. I removed it, and it sounds much more "open" now, not as muffled as I first thought. I also used my onboard audio output for a while, and though it sounds weaker and with more jittering than almost anything else, it also sounds very open and "bright". This also might have contributed to my first impression. Now the impression is very normal, "sound" and balanced.
   
  Edit: It might also just be my ears getting used to it... Because although bass extension was on when last I looked, I remember clearly checking "turn off all enhancements" the first time, which makes it impossible to turn on bass extension... Something else I did some time inbetween was redoing all the plugs. Maybe it was that though I think it's unlikely because I did them thoroughly. I give up getting behind it and leave it at that.


----------



## adydula

There is no such thing as DC ripple....
   
  There no benefit from more current availability.....
   
  Alex


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





adydula said:


> There is no such thing as DC ripple....
> 
> There no benefit from more current availability.....
> 
> Alex


 
  No, but there is such a thing as DC _with_ ripple.  Perhaps it was only in his phrasing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As for no benefit from more current availability, just curious - in what context are you referring?  I can think of many examples where more current availability is beneficial.  It's one reason we use large capacitors in certain places in a DAC circuit.


----------



## adydula

Hey Tom....
   
  Yup....there is such a thing as DC with "AC" ripple.....that was my point....words are important....filter caps arent perfect.
   
  As far as current availability the current that is drawn by a circuit is dependant on the load...the ODAC "draws" approx 50 ma of current..
   
  The statement above the person is wondering " if the ODAC actually benefits from more current availability than what my PC can provide".
   
  Its like if the power supply could source more than the device would draw this might make the ODAC "work" or "sound" better.....
   
  If your pc had a 5vdc source capable of 10 amps current the ODAC still will only draw 50 ma or so...
   
  The normal PC USB 2.0 power spec is a lot less...more like 500 ma total if implemented correctly...
   
  The ODAC doesnt even come close to taxing the 5VDC in most pc's.....
   
  Alex


----------



## ProTofik

From my experience, no matter if I connect my ODAC to battery powered laptop, my PC's USB3.0 or 2.0 port or to my Samsung Galaxy S3, it always sounds the same (which means very good). I also tried a couple different cables and can't hear any difference. 
   
  Tested with O2 - Sennheiser HD600 and HD650


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Hey Tom....
> 
> Yup....there is such a thing as DC with "AC" ripple.....that was my point....words are important....filter caps arent perfect.
> 
> ...


 
  Well in that context, I agree with your assessment of extra current not being available.  That's why I asked in what context. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As for ripple, I would have to disagree and that's why I hate getting caught up in semantics or correcting someone else for that.  AC doesn't have ripple.  The very definition of "ripple" is a variation from perfect DC resulting from "a touch" of AC ... but whatever ...


----------



## kkl10

Ripple.
  Shouldn't be to hard to understand what I was trying to convey with "DC ripple"...
   
  adydula, I'm not in position to say what is the actual current draw from the ODAC, as I said before, I'm more inclined to think that the differences I heard were due to the *cleaner *battery power supply.
  But, although I understand that a USB powered device will only draw as much as it needs, I find it hard to believe that the ODAC only draws 50 ma... how have you figured this out?
  And is this value constant or it varies?
   
  One bit of info about my battery pack that justifies my scepticism:
  It's the Anker Astro3E model, this particular battery won't power anything that draws less than 80 ma... so my ODAC has to be drawing much more than 50...
   
  My ODAC is a JDS Labs standalone unit with both 3,5 and RCA outputs... not sure if the power demands would be the same if it only had a 3,5mm output or if it were part of ODAC + O2 combo...
   
  I ran USBView software to check what it would show up for the ODAC and here's what I got:
  Note the darkish line. "0xFA" means 250
   
   
  "
_Device Descriptor:
 bcdUSB:             0x0110
 bDeviceClass:         0x00
 bDeviceSubClass:      0x00
 bDeviceProtocol:      0x00
 bMaxPacketSize0:      0x08 (8)
 idVendor:           0x1852
 idProduct:          0x7022
 bcdDevice:          0x0001
 iManufacturer:        0x01
 0x0409: "Binary Audio"
 iProduct:             0x02
 0x0409: "UAC1 DAC"
 iSerialNumber:        0x00
 bNumConfigurations:   0x01

 ConnectionStatus: DeviceConnected
 Current Config Value: 0x01
 Device Bus Speed:     Full
 Device Address:       0x01
 Open Pipes:              2

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x81  IN
 Transfer Type:   Interrupt
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0012 (18)
 bInterval:            0x20

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x03  OUT
 Transfer Type: Isochronous
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0246 (582)
 wInterval:          0x0001
 bSyncAddress:         0x00

 Configuration Descriptor:
 wTotalLength:       0x0151
 bNumInterfaces:       0x04
 bConfigurationValue:  0x01
 iConfiguration:       0x00
 bmAttributes:         0x80 (Bus Powered )
*MaxPower:             0xFA (500 Ma)*

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x00
 bAlternateSetting:    0x00
 bNumEndpoints:        0x01
 bInterfaceClass:      0x03 (HID)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x00
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 HID Descriptor:
 bcdHID:             0x0100
 bCountryCode:         0x00
 bNumDescriptors:      0x01
 bDescriptorType:      0x22
 wDescriptorLength:  0x003A

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x81  IN
 Transfer Type:   Interrupt
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0012 (18)
 bInterval:            0x20

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x01
 bAlternateSetting:    0x00
 bNumEndpoints:        0x00
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x01 (Audio Control)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x03
 0x0409: "ODAC "

 Audio Control Interface Header Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x0A
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bcdADC:             0x0100
 wTotalLength:       0x003E
 bInCollection:        0x02
 baInterfaceNr[1]:     0x02
 baInterfaceNr[2]:     0x03

 Audio Control Input Terminal Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x0C
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x02
 bTerminalID:          0x05
 wTerminalType:      0x0605 (S/PDIF interface)
 bAssocTerminal:       0x00
 bNrChannels:          0x02
 wChannelConfig:     0x0003
 iChannelNames:        0x00
 iTerminal:            0x00

 Audio Control Input Terminal Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x0C
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x02
 bTerminalID:          0x09
 wTerminalType:      0x0101 (USB streaming)
 bAssocTerminal:       0x00
 bNrChannels:          0x02
 wChannelConfig:     0x0003
 iChannelNames:        0x00
 iTerminal:            0x00

 Audio Control Output Terminal Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x09
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x03
 bTerminalID:          0x03
 wTerminalType:      0x0301 (Speaker)
 bAssocTerminal:       0x00
 bSoruceID:            0x10
 iTerminal:            0x00

 Audio Control Output Terminal Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x09
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x03
 bTerminalID:          0x07
 wTerminalType:      0x0101 (USB streaming)
 bAssocTerminal:       0x00
 bSoruceID:            0x05
 iTerminal:            0x00

 Audio Control Feature Unit Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x0A
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x06
 bUnitID:              0x10
 bSourceID:            0x09
 bControlSize:         0x01
 bmaControls[0]:
 01
 bmaControls[1]:
 02
 bmaControls[2]:
 02
 iFeature:             0x00

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x02
 bAlternateSetting:    0x00
 bNumEndpoints:        0x00
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x02 (Audio Streaming)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x02
 bAlternateSetting:    0x01
 bNumEndpoints:        0x01
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x02 (Audio Streaming)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Interface Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bTerminalLink:        0x07
 bDelay:               0x00
 wFormatTag:         0x0001 (PCM)

 Audio Streaming Format Type Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x1A
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x02
 bFormatType:          0x01
 bNrChannels:          0x02
 bSubframeSize:        0x02
 bBitResolution:       0x10
 bSamFreqType:         0x06
 tSamFreq[1]:      0x001F40 (8000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[2]:      0x003E80 (16000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[3]:      0x007D00 (32000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[4]:      0x00AC44 (44100 Hz)
 tSamFreq[5]:      0x00BB80 (48000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[6]:      0x017700 (96000 Hz)

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x82  IN
 Transfer Type: Isochronous
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0184 (388)
 wInterval:          0x0001
 bSyncAddress:         0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Audio Data Endpoint Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x25
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bmAttributes:         0x01
 bLockDelayUnits:      0x02
 wLockDelay:         0x0002

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x02
 bAlternateSetting:    0x02
 bNumEndpoints:        0x01
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x02 (Audio Streaming)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Interface Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bTerminalLink:        0x07
 bDelay:               0x00
 wFormatTag:         0x0001 (PCM)

 Audio Streaming Format Type Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x1A
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x02
 bFormatType:          0x01
 bNrChannels:          0x02
 bSubframeSize:        0x03
 bBitResolution:       0x18
 bSamFreqType:         0x06
 tSamFreq[1]:      0x001F40 (8000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[2]:      0x003E80 (16000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[3]:      0x007D00 (32000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[4]:      0x00AC44 (44100 Hz)
 tSamFreq[5]:      0x00BB80 (48000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[6]:      0x017700 (96000 Hz)

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x82  IN
 Transfer Type: Isochronous
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0246 (582)
 wInterval:          0x0001
 bSyncAddress:         0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Audio Data Endpoint Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x25
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bmAttributes:         0x01
 bLockDelayUnits:      0x02
 wLockDelay:         0x0002

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x03
 bAlternateSetting:    0x00
 bNumEndpoints:        0x00
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x02 (Audio Streaming)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x03
 bAlternateSetting:    0x01
 bNumEndpoints:        0x01
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x02 (Audio Streaming)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Interface Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bTerminalLink:        0x09
 bDelay:               0x00
 wFormatTag:         0x0001 (PCM)

 Audio Streaming Format Type Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x11
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x02
 bFormatType:          0x01
 bNrChannels:          0x02
 bSubframeSize:        0x02
 bBitResolution:       0x10
 bSamFreqType:         0x03
 tSamFreq[1]:      0x00AC44 (44100 Hz)
 tSamFreq[2]:      0x00BB80 (48000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[3]:      0x017700 (96000 Hz)

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x03  OUT
 Transfer Type: Isochronous
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0184 (388)
 wInterval:          0x0001
 bSyncAddress:         0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Audio Data Endpoint Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x25
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bmAttributes:         0x01
 bLockDelayUnits:      0x02
 wLockDelay:         0x0002

 Interface Descriptor:
 bInterfaceNumber:     0x03
 bAlternateSetting:    0x02
 bNumEndpoints:        0x01
 bInterfaceClass:      0x01 (Audio)
 bInterfaceSubClass:   0x02 (Audio Streaming)
 bInterfaceProtocol:   0x00
 iInterface:           0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Interface Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bTerminalLink:        0x09
 bDelay:               0x00
 wFormatTag:         0x0001 (PCM)

 Audio Streaming Format Type Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x11
 bDescriptorType:      0x24
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x02
 bFormatType:          0x01
 bNrChannels:          0x02
 bSubframeSize:        0x03
 bBitResolution:       0x18
 bSamFreqType:         0x03
 tSamFreq[1]:      0x00AC44 (44100 Hz)
 tSamFreq[2]:      0x00BB80 (48000 Hz)
 tSamFreq[3]:      0x017700 (96000 Hz)

 Endpoint Descriptor:
 bEndpointAddress:     0x03  OUT
 Transfer Type: Isochronous
 wMaxPacketSize:     0x0246 (582)
 wInterval:          0x0001
 bSyncAddress:         0x00

 Audio Streaming Class Specific Audio Data Endpoint Descriptor:
 bLength:              0x07
 bDescriptorType:      0x25
 bDescriptorSubtype:   0x01
 bmAttributes:         0x01
 bLockDelayUnits:      0x02
 wLockDelay:         0x0002_

 "


----------



## adydula

Hey Tom...
   
  I agree....AC doesn't have ripple, that what I was trying to say....AC is all "ripple" (lol)....if you get what I mean...but DC from a rectifier half or full wave bridge supplied by the AC from a transformer will usually have some minute about of AC ripple ridding on the DC...and is measured in millivolts etc...but we know that....
   
  The neat thing about the O2 amp (yes this is a ODAC thread is that it runs off of pure DC from batteries, and this means NO ripple...and all those AC power supply worts diappear....
   
  KKL10: how do i know what the ODAC draws for current? Well I took a perfectly good cable and cut into in to put an ammeter in series with the +VDC liine and actually measured the current at quiescient and under operation.
   
  I havent looked lately....but you can take a look at the USB specs at USB.ORG....but if I remember the USB spec is 500 ma total....and I think the USB 3.0 spec went up to 750ma.  Thats what the USB power "source" should be able to provide in needed.....in the ODAC case its not. The 500 ma "MaxPower" is what the USB source should be able to source. Even using MaxPower with current is mis-leading....power usually measured in "watts" not current.
   
  As far as being "clean" DC from the PC USB's supply, I have not used an O'scope to actually see how much AC riipple of any other HF is actually on the VDC line. But I am am sure there is some in most cases.  That said the ODAC circuitry has a choke and filtering etc....and any noise on the USB VDC line from a PC .will have no real afffect on the sound quality.....unless bits are being dropped etc....if bits are being dropped its not usually due to a few millivolts of AC ripple.Also if your using a good USB cable with a ferrite bead this should help eliminate any induced gardage...but if stuff gets in the ODAC again its choke and filtering should help there....again its bits, not analog.
   
  The ODAC in your integrated JDS O2/ODAC still is powered via the USB supply and the O2 amp gets its power from the half wave rectifier or batteries....its current draw will be different....I have not measured it myself but I think on nwavguy site its spec out...
   
  All the best
  Happy Ripple to All!
   
  Alex


----------



## Phelix

Would others say that the ODAC+O2 has great "presence" in the mids? The nearest and best comparison I have is an old but good TV, and it offers much greater presence of mids, to make singing and instruments really come to the fore, without it sounding false but rather more natural. Sounds have a better structure of their own, I would say. The ODAC is fine and very clean, but it still sounds so "same" all around.... A bit underwhelmed, I have to admit.


----------



## adydula

phelix....
   
  remember garbage in garbage out....the amp and the odac if indeed transparent are allowing you to hear waht your source material really sounds like and this is in turn tied to the ability of your cans.....
   
  most of us have very good recorded material we use for demo and comparison.....
   
  lots of the modern day music is really not that great....
   
  "listener beware..'
   
  Alex


----------



## Phelix

Sorry, but this "advice" just assumes a lot and doesn't try seriously at all. And not just about the quality but moreover for some reason about the material which has not the slightest thing to do with this, since what I wrote implied the same material. It affects the whole range of material, it is just a different sound signature.
   
  Most importantly it doesn't answer my simple question but I've noticed this is hard to come by here anyway.


----------



## lorriman

phelix said:


> Sorry, but this "advice" just assumes a lot and doesn't try seriously at all. And not just about the quality but moreover for some reason about the material which has not the slightest thing to do with this, since what I wrote implied the same material. It affects the whole range of material, it is just a different sound signature.
> 
> Most importantly it doesn't answer my simple question but I've noticed this is hard to come by here anyway.




It's got excellent mids. they are very present and, as usual for me, force the singers, in modern masterings, against my face. 

Perhaps you are deaf and require phones that have an n shaped frequency curve. 

In anycase, unless your O2/ODAC is faulty, the O2 is neither weak nor strong on the mids, just flat. It's up to you to compensate for your needs with DSP or phones.

It does seem to me that you have fundamentally misunderstood what the ODAC/O2 are all about. 

It's completely barmy to be talking in the terms you do about kit whose raison d'etre is to not have a sound signature.


----------



## Battou62

It's not a sound signature, can we stop this. The Odac/O2 is audibly transparent. Any "signatures" or "presences" you are hearing is your headphones or source material. I am really tired of hearing about "how" the Odac/O2 sounds....it doesn't.


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





battou62 said:


> It's not a sound signature, can we stop this. The Odac/O2 is audibly transparent. Any "signatures" or "presences" you are hearing is your headphones or source material. I am really tired of hearing about "how" the Odac/O2 sounds....it doesn't.


 
   
  +1. And that's the way it should be, well the dac at least imo.


----------



## Phelix

Thanks for the answers and apologies for any earlier conflict or misunderstandings. And second, I finally seem to have got it working correctly. I used it only as an amp for the TV for a while and the sound signature was completely different from the laptop, way more open as opposed to a warm impression, and really crisp. When I reconnected the DAC to the laptop, the different sound remained. It seems the amplifier wasn't working correctly beforehand and using it seemed to have got it working. I don't know how that's possible. Maybe it's just the power connector which is now in a nearer position to the source, but I checked that before. But this time I'm 95% certain it's a different result and working correctly (unless the one fault is indicative of less obvious ones).
   
  Quote: 





battou62 said:


> It's not a sound signature, can we stop this. The Odac/O2 is audibly transparent. Any "signatures" or "presences" you are hearing is your headphones or source material. I am really tired of hearing about "how" the Odac/O2 sounds....it doesn't.


 
  Seriously? Anything can be described in a particular way relative to something else. It's the same as what everyone is doing all the time. Something is more present or less, constituted in a different way. Maybe it's objective, maybe not. Maybe natural, maybe not. But it's something in each case and not nothing.


----------



## adydula

Lorriman....guys thanks for the replies, I just get tired of trying to enlighted people that just dont have a clue....
   
  "seemed to have got it working"
   
  WOW Really?????
   
  OMG
   
  Alex


----------



## HaVoC-28

No the ODAC is not trully transparent only the Ice King DAC is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPCl_ez0Hio


----------



## bcwang

Anyone tried it with the ifi iUSB yet?


----------



## ClieOS

Wrong post. NVM.


----------



## LoveKnight

Hi guys, long time not to post in this thread. I ordered an ODAC board ten days ago and waiting for it to ship to my country. I remember in this thread someone posted a picture with his Samsung Galaxy S3-> ODAC-> amplifier->... so ODACs can work with Android phones. My questions are how many phones you guy have tried with ODACs? How about Nokia Lumia series. We need a mini USB cables to connect to smartphones, right?
   
  Thanks for reading my post.


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Hi guys, long time not to post in this thread. I ordered an ODAC board ten days ago and waiting for it to ship to my country. I remember in this thread someone posted a picture with his Samsung Galaxy S3-> ODAC-> amplifier->... so ODACs can work with Android phones. My questions are how many phones you guy have tried with ODACs? How about Nokia Lumia series. We need a mini USB cables to connect to smartphones, right?
> 
> Thanks for reading my post.


 
  You need to look over in the "Portable Source Gear" section here on Head-Fi.  Last time I checked, there are very, very few phones that can do this.  Using a phone as a source to a DAC may still be somewhat on the cutting edge.


----------



## richbass

Hello,
  Is O2+Odac combo capable of driving LCD 3 ?


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





richbass said:


> Hello,
> Is O2+Odac combo capable of driving LCD 3 ?


 

 Of course it can ...


----------



## kkl10

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Hi guys, long time not to post in this thread. I ordered an ODAC board ten days ago and waiting for it to ship to my country. I remember in this thread someone posted a picture with his Samsung Galaxy S3-> ODAC-> amplifier->... so ODACs can work with Android phones. My questions are how many phones you guy have tried with ODACs? How about Nokia Lumia series. We need a mini USB cables to connect to smartphones, right?
> 
> Thanks for reading my post.


 
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs
  You need OTG cables to connect your mobile device to your DAC, which connector will depend on the specific device.
   
  Nokia Lumia phones run Windows Phone 7 or 8, don't know if this OS supports USB audio.


----------



## blackdragon87

help..windows 8 doesn't seem to recognize my odac


----------



## adydula

bd87 where are u looking in Win8?
   
  Alex


----------



## blackdragon87

under control panel


----------



## ghettocoolie

I'm running Win8 with ODAC (built by Audio Poutine) with no problems.
   
  If you right-click the Volume icon and select Playback devices, you should see Speakers\ODAC if Windows recognizes the ODAC. My ODAC was picked up automatically once I plugged in the USB. You might want to try a different USB port on your PC if you have another one.


----------



## ClieOS

I am using Window 8 Pro now. It has no problem detecting and starting ODAC. However, after a while of being idle, the driver will reset itself and all the sound will get distorted. A little bit of research seems to indicate that M$ has been using sub-par USB audio class 1 driver that will cause this kind of problem. I switch to using iFi iDAC now (which has its own 24/192 driver) and no problem whatsoever.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *ClieOS* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I am using Window 8 Pro now. It has no problem detecting and starting ODAC. However, *after a while of being idle, the driver will reset itself and all the sound will get distorted*. A little bit of research seems to indicate that M$ has been using sub-par USB audio class 1 driver that will cause this kind of problem. I switch to using iFi iDAC now (which has its own 24/192 driver) and no problem whatsoever.


 
   
  I have good quality USB ports on my HP 2540p laptop and I experienced this problem, as well.  I don't have the iFi USB but, instead, used a powered USB hub with the ODAC and the issues was resolved.


----------



## ClieOS

Quote: 





flysweep said:


> I have good quality USB ports on my HP 2540p laptop and I experienced this problem, as well.  I don't have the iFi USB but, instead, used a powered USB hub with the ODAC and the issues was resolved.


 
   
  Perhaps the USB hub somehow prevents the USB driver from resetting itself? I might try that later on. This is kind of suck because Vista has no such problem on the same PC with the same USB port. For what I have read M$ has known about the issue with their USB Audio Class driver since early on but they decided it isn't important enough to fix....


----------



## ghettocoolie

I'm using my mobo's USB 3.0 port and I haven't noticed the distortion yet on Windows 8. Not sure that has anything to do with it but I thought I mention that in case someone else is experiencing this situation.


----------



## blackdragon87

thanks guys, got it working now


----------



## FlySweep

clieos said:


> Perhaps the USB hub somehow prevents the USB driver from resetting itself? I might try that later on. *This is kind of suck because Vista has no such problem on the same PC with the same USB port.* For what I have read M$ has known about the issue with their USB Audio Class driver since early on but they decided it isn't important enough to fix....


 
   
  That's interesting.  I had this issue with the ODAC in Windows 7, too.  Recently went to Windows 8.. the issue remained.. got a powered hub.. boom, fixed.
   


ghettocoolie said:


> I'm using my mobo's USB 3.0 port and I haven't noticed the distortion yet on Windows 8. Not sure that has anything to do with it but I thought I mention that in case someone else is experiencing this situation.


 
   
  Nice.. My USB hub is a 3.0, as well.  Never tried using a 2.0 hub (don't have one laying around).. but I would suppose it would work, too.


----------



## mnarwold

It seems like the first thing to try if you have problems with an ODAC is a USB hub


----------



## tdockweiler

I can't use the ODAC without a powered hub. Not on my desktop or laptop.
  I was shocked at how bad my ODAC sounded with my desktop's USB ports. Not the ODAC's fault.
   
  On day one I posted a bunch of garbage about how bad the ODAC was sounding at the time and I felt like an idiot when I found out it was crappy USB ports.
  I had to go back and remove a bunch of stupid comments.
   
  I'm sure I could get the ODAC to sound ok if I tried a USB internal card or several different ports, but I'm not taking any chances.
   
  My HRT MSII had the same issues.
   
  Most USB ports should have no problems with the ODAC I imagine.
   
  My computer has an MSI motherboard and it's fairly old. Still running a Q6600 from maybe 5 years ago.


----------



## Poimandres

I am wondering if it may have less to do with the motherboard and more to do with your rigs power supply. My odac shipped today so I will let you know if I experience any issues, I have a seasonic x750 gold.


----------



## mac336

can the odac bypass the soundcard on a macbook pro ?


----------



## Kirnupiima

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> can the odac bypass the soundcard on a macbook pro ?


 
  Yes. That is what it's basically for


----------



## lorriman

mac336 said:


> can the odac bypass the soundcard on a macbook pro ?




Unlike Windows, the Macbook I've used with the O2 didn't default to using it. I had to go in to the sound settings to select it and also to tell the Mac to automatically select it in future. Because of the way USB works you may need to do this for each USB port the ODAC is plugged in to.


----------



## hollowkenshin

My odac has a high pitch whine when plugged in and the laptop turned off. iirc maverickronin said it was something about the ferrite in the odac vibrating. 
  Ive tried uaing powered usb ports and it happens as well.
  Are any of you guys experiencing this?
  What could i do to get rid of this annoying whine?
   
   
  Jdslabs has offered to inspect, except the cost to ship it there is probably not worth the trouble (international)


----------



## mac336

Quote: 





hollowkenshin said:


> My odac has a high pitch whine when plugged in and the laptop turned off. iirc maverickronin said it was something about the ferrite in the odac vibrating.
> Ive tried uaing powered usb ports and it happens as well.
> Are any of you guys experiencing this?
> What could i do to get rid of this annoying whine?
> ...


 

 Ive gotten it a couple of times when I leave the ocad plugged in and turn off/on my laptop of put it in hibernate/sleep and awaken it. 
   
  solution:  unplug/replug odac


----------



## adydula

I have never heard this whine....but I am sure it can happen.
   
  I would take it out if the case and try it outside of the case and see if there is any loose items or resonance's in between the case etc...
   
  If the whine still occurs you could put your finger on the "ferrite" or toroid core on the board and tell if thats it.
   
  I dont use my ODACS's with laptops only with desktops.
   
  It should not whine...I would send it back and let them check it out..
   
  Alex


----------



## JakeJack_2008

My _JDS Labs _*ODAC *and the *O2* (two separates and not a combo),  which arrived last week,  _sound fantastic!_ - *Alleluia!*
  I  am using the *ODAC* and the *O2* (on AC power _or _batteries) and the  Beyerdynamic DT 880 (_250_ Ohm; 2005 Edition) or the Sennheiser HD 595 (_50_ Ohm).
   
   
  My thanks go to the designer of the *ODAC *and *O2  *whose name is ...... and to  JDS Labs.
   
  Edit:
  Alex, I forgot to mention that the transport is my _laptop_.
  So the setup is:
   


> _laptop --> ODAC ---> O2 --> Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 Ohm)_


 
   
   
   
   
   
   
  P.S.
  I don't hear any whining, scratching,  etc while listening to  my *ODAC *and *O2*.


----------



## Funky-kun

I use the ODAC with my laptop and it doesn't "whine", but it happened when it was connected to a friend's desktop that was turned off. So it is not your ODAC's fault, it probably is because of the laptop. In any case, unplugging it should solve the problem.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

My Windows 7 laptop _immediately recognized _the ODAC.
  But I've had some scary time because I was playing with all those settings and I myself  _erased _the ODAC from the playback devices list_. - _(How on earth did I do this?) - My laptop could _not _see it any more. Well, after about 30 mins of fiddling the ODAC miraculously appeared on the playback devices list _again._
   
   
   
  Quote:


clieos said:


> I am using Window 8 Pro now. It has no problem detecting and starting ODAC. However, after a while of being idle, the driver will reset itself and all the sound will get distorted. A little bit of research seems to indicate that M$ has been using sub-par USB audio class 1 driver that will cause this kind of problem. I switch to using iFi iDAC now (which has its own 24/192 driver) and no problem whatsoever.


 
   
  This is very strange and above very interesting indeed. Thanx for posting.
   
  Speaking of _powered USB ports _or hubs I've got the following  question_._
   
  How do _powered _USB ports or hubs relate to the so called (Mini) Travel *Surge Protectos* with _powered _*USB Ports*?
  To what extent those mini/travel surge protectors _filter the noise_ of AC power?
  Typically noise filtering is up to 44dB or something like this. How good is this?  How useful is this feature?
   
  My Toshiba Satellite laptop uses *19V* & *3.42A* DC power.
   
  Here's an example: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BST300-3-Outlet-Travel-Protector/dp/B00ATZJ5YS/ref=dp_ob_title_ce




   
     
Quote:


> Belkin BST300 3-Outlet Mini Travel Surge Protector with USB Port - 2.1 AMP
> 
> Product Features
> *900 Joule energy rating* provides superior power protection for all your sensitive mobile devices
> ...


 
 
This means that   those travel/mini _surge protectors  _can be used with USB-powered headphone amps.
But, how to use such  surge protectors with the ODAC? The ODAC needs the data (music) encoded in digital files  from a laptop/desktop.
I never used any powered USB ports/hubs.


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> This is very strange and above very interesting indeed. Thanx for posting.
> 
> Speaking of _powered USB ports _or hubs I've got the following  question_._
> 
> ...


 

 Power-wise it would supply what the ODAC needs, but yes, the problem is no data. USB hubs are something that plug into a USB port on your computer and then have multiple inputs, effectively giving you more usb ports. The powered versions of USB hubs just add something that gets plugged into the wall so the power is from the wall (not the PC) and the data is from the computer. Basically, this is only suggested if you absolutely need more USB ports or you're having a problem with your ODAC.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





mnarwold said:


> Power-wise it would supply what the ODAC needs, but yes, the problem is no data. USB hubs are something that plug into a USB port on your computer and then have multiple inputs, effectively giving you more usb ports. The powered versions of USB hubs just add something that gets plugged into the wall so the power is from the wall (not the PC) and the data is from the computer. Basically, this is only suggested if you absolutely need more USB ports or you're having a problem with your ODAC.


 
   
   
  Thank You very much.
  Yes, that's what I've thought. One cannot use USB DACs with  surge protectors because _no data is transmitted_.
   
  I've never used a powered USB hub. Does it use two cables? The _USB cable _you plug into the laptop/desktop computer to transmit the data and the  _power cable _you plug into  the AC outlet? Then you plug the ODAC  into the USB port of such a _powered _USB hub.


----------



## adydula

A powered USB hub will supply the power to the ODAC via the USB cable fron the ODAC plugged into the powered USB hub.
  The same cable on the data lines will provide the data from the PC to the ODAC.
   
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

Didn't someone say there was a ferrite bead on the ODAC itself? I swear that I couldn't spot one at all. Maybe it's so small that I overlooked it.
   
  I tried my ODAC again straight from my laptop's USB port and it's still pretty bad. It feels as if there is just no life to the music and something has gone missing.
  It seems like when I use a powered USB hub everything is back to it's old self and it's much fuller sounding (no, not colored). The ODAC never sounds thin or cold or any of that nonsense.
  I love the ODAC, but I still swear that it's treble is kind of slightly TOO polite. I have no idea why or how this would be. It's not caused by my amp. I know it's ruler flat. I like it though. The ODAC has smooth treble to my ears.
   
  I also noticed that I got a lot of pops and weird noises coming from my headphones when scrolling through a web browser (without a hub). This always occurred on my HRT MSII too.
  When I used a USB hub this never ever happens. Obviously it's not the ODACs fault.  Nothing else was attached to my USB ports along with the ODAC. I think the DACs are getting enough power, but something else weird going on.
  The HRT MSII however would randomly start screeching at me until I unplugged it. That never occurred with a powered USB hub.
   
  More people should try a powered USB port and compare it to straight out of the computer. Obviously borrow a powered USB hub first if you can! If you get random weird noises when scrolling in Windows, try a powered USB port!
  Even if you spend $20 on one and don't notice a difference, USB hubs are always useful and not a total waste. I'm using a Belkin one. I don't like Belkin but I got it locally. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find a powered USB hub locally!
   
  I think my problem is just poor USB ports. I have a 6 year old HP laptop (which is actually pretty good and built like a tank!) and a custom built desktop with MSI motherboard and a high quality power supply.


----------



## lorriman

tdockweiler said:


> Didn't someone say there was a ferrite bead on the ODAC itself? I swear that I couldn't spot one at all. Maybe it's so small that I overlooked it.




I may be mistaken but isn't the round object with coiled wire the ferrite? the designer mentioned that the manufacturer did a last minute switch to a different one. PErhaps a later batch (I have the original) switched back and the ferrite bead is no longer easily idenitified.


----------



## adydula

The little round thing in the lower right hand corner it the inductor, L100 in the +5VDC line in.
  Note: Edited to remove the URL.


----------



## Ixion

My ODAC is now being pushed along by an iFI iUSBpower, massive smile on my face as I type this.
   
  Too much of an audio nub to describe what I'm hearing but it's a fair bit smarter then it was yesterday...


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





ixion said:


> My ODAC is now being pushed along by an iFI iUSBpower, massive smile on my face as I type this.
> 
> Too much of an audio nub to describe what I'm hearing but it's a fair bit smarter then it was yesterday...


 
   
  That looks like an interesting device... will have to look into that.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The little round thing in the lower right hand corner it the inductor, L100 in the +5VDC line in.
> Note: Edited to remove the URL.


 
   
  Oh that's it! I thought this was probably it, but it just looked a bit different. I definitely have that on mine.
  I never get any noise or anything ever. My ODAC is always dead silent. My Magni..not so much.
  I don't even use USB cables with the ferrite bead. I have a ferrite bead on my USB hubs power cable though.
  Haha, don't ask me why. I had to put it somewhere 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've never had an O2 before, but I was cheap and got the Magni instead but I do like it.
  Maybe they both sound the same, but I highly doubt it. I do believe the Magni and my Micro are very transparent though, so the O2 shouldn't be dramatically different..I think.
   
  I'm going to be comparing the Modi to my ODAC this weekend. Love the ODAC so it's never gong anywhere.
  I think it's my favorite piece of equipment behind my Micro Amp.
   
  As much as I like the ODAC, it doesn't really do anything to impress me and I like that  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Mine is not too cold and doesn't seem to be excessively detailed, which is OK by me. I mean it's all there, but doesn't annoy me. It does however make the HD-650 more revealing and less forgiving.


----------



## Poimandres

Just received my ODAC today.  Listening to it now and no issues with a non ferrite usb cable either, I am using the ultra violet.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> That looks like an interesting device... will have to look into that.


 
   
  I second it.


----------



## Poimandres

I have yet to try the ODAC with my laptop but I will say that I have no issues whatsoever in my desktop without even using the ferrite cable.  Even with the computer powered off I hear nothing.  I have had the same fulltower rocketfish case for years which was made by Lian-Li and I am using the top usb port, the cable was the original that came with the case and plugs into the usb header on the Sabertooth Z77 motherboard.  As I stated previously and it seems to hold true in my case so far that the power supply may have more to do with the issues that people are experiencing with the ODAC.  The seasonic gold 750 is a great power supply and is powering a good load in my system including a water cooler.
   
  So far I am really enjoying the sound of the ODAC paired with the portaphile and Heir Audio 8A's.  I am not sure if the ultra violet cable makes a difference or not however other than the color it is a really well built cable and has better ergonomics than most usb cables that I have used.  I also like the fact that it splits the power and data wires.  Listening to some Dire Straits and I am completely blown away.  All this and to boot it stacks very nicely with the port as I requested the ODAC in the C5 case from JDS.  A match made in Heaven, now the wait begins to replace my 4s with a Note 2 later this year when I am eligible for an upgrade.


----------



## tomb

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The little round thing in the lower right hand corner it the inductor, L100 in the +5VDC line in.
> Note: Edited to remove the URL.


 
  Dang!  That's a long way to go from pin 1 on the USB connector to that inductor.  I'd hate to see the trace path on the back side.  A ferrite is common practice immediately in the USB +5V line from the connector, but I've never seen one that big on a USB-powered DAC - more like a typical 1206 or 805 ferrite.
   
  I'm also very surprised that there appears to be no power capacitor anywhere in the USB power path (+5VDC) on the DAC PCB at all.  All this time, I thought that was what the inductor was (an SMD electrolytic).  A standard DIY USB-powered DAC would have at least a 1000uf electrolytic there.  That certainly explains all the power issues and sensitivity with the ODAC.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  No power LED, either, but I guess that's trivial.


----------



## snip3r77

Anyone encounter this problem?
   
  I'm using a odac+o2 combo. Amplification part unused hence now the dac is only powered by the usb.
   
  I'm plugging it to a tube amp , 3.5mm out to 2x RCA.
   
  The gain seems to be too high and causes distortion. I'm currently my foobar ( with wasapi ) to -12db and it's better. 
   
  Is it meant to work this way?
   
  Thanks


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





snip3r77 said:


> Anyone encounter this problem?
> 
> I'm using a odac+o2 combo. Amplification part unused hence now the dac is only powered by the usb.
> 
> ...


 
  The ODAC has a relatively high output at 2Vrms. I have a similar problem running it to a speaker amp set up for less powerful sources.
   
  I suggest setting your system up as ODAC>O2>Tube Amp and making use of the o2 as a preamp. This works well for my situation. I leave my speaker amp set at about half volume and use the o2 as my volume control.


----------



## Satellite_6

DAC's do not have gain. . . and 2 volts is normal not high. I thought with a speaker amp you use the pre-amp alone to control the volume? How are you using the ODAC alone in a ODAC/O2 combo?


----------



## snip3r77

Quote: 





satellite_6 said:


> DAC's do not have gain. . . and 2 volts is normal not high. I thought with a speaker amp you use the pre-amp alone to control the volume? How are you using the ODAC alone in a ODAC/O2 combo?


 
  When you attach the output at the rear. Some opt for 2x RCA mine comes with 1x 3.5mm. I didn't use the power AC/AC adaptor, hence I guess it's a direct out from the DAC
   
  ChrisLangley, not sure if it's advisable to double amplify as I only want amplification from my tube amp.
   
  Just wondering if anyone knows the gain and voltage direct out from the odac only and why is it happening.
   
  Thanks all


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





snip3r77 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  To quote Satellite_6, "DAC's do not have gain [they aren't amplifiers]. . . and 2 volts [RMS, the industry standard] is normal not high."
   
  Perhaps your amplifier expects a reduced voltage such as supplied by a low-power portable player. What amp are you using?


----------



## snip3r77

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> To quote Satellite_6, "DAC's do not have gain [they aren't amplifiers]. . . and 2 volts [RMS, the industry standard] is normal not high."
> 
> Perhaps your amplifier expects a reduced voltage such as supplied by a low-power portable player. What amp are you using?


 
   
  Amp that I'm using is La Figaro 339.
   
  I do have another Calyx DAC which is also 2v, no issues with this.


----------



## A1095

Just thought I'd post my impressions of the ODAC. I've been living with it for about 2 weeks now. I have been constantly comparing it to my Arcam Rdac using Sennheiser HD 600's and 650's. My test amps. are an O2 and a Beta 18 with LM4562.
   
  I give up!
   
  I cannot tell the difference if there is one. Even with HD audio, Wasapi... ASIO. I may just put the Rdac on Ebay. This is a pleasant and surprising outcome. I did not think the ODAC would compete with the RDAC.
   
  What a deal at $139 free shipping. And it doesn' need an ext. pwr. supply!


----------



## adydula

Imagine that...and the Odac doesnt have an exotic external power supply, is not synchronous, and is very inexpensive in comparison to lots of other dacs....isnt it nice to be able to have a world class DAC that doesnt bankrupt you!!..
   
  Glad like it...
   
  Alex


----------



## LoveKnight

Just took an ODAC board to home this week. I was waiting for this day for so long (after several months to save enough money ). So far so good but ODAC and C421 OPA 2227 pair with HD598 is still not strong enough to take me to heaven yet but may be so close, at the heaven gate. Next upgrade is the MoonAudio Black Dragon V2. Keeping saving money .


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Just took an ODAC board to home this week. I was waiting for this day for so long (after several months to save enough money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Dude, stay away from that cable. Either pick up an O2 or move up in the Sennheiser line or stay put. You are not going to get any noticeable improvement from that cable and anyone that tells you that you should spend that much on a cable for the kind of cans/gear you have is not your friend.


----------



## adydula

Get an O2 or even the newer C5.....money on a $200+ cable is not going to do anything for you....but if u can afford it....buy it and tell
  us honestly how much better it is???
   
  Alex


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Just took an ODAC board to home this week. I was waiting for this day for so long (after several months to save enough money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Five feet of copper wire for $215 is a needless expense. For that money, you can buy another pair of headphones (or for ~$10 more, something like an AKG Q701.) $215 is enough for an O2 amp and you'll have over $50 left for music, etc.


----------



## snip3r77

snip3r77 said:


> Amp that I'm using is La Figaro 339.
> 
> I do have another Calyx DAC which is also 2v, no issues with this.




Anyone?


----------



## LoveKnight

Some of you really do not trust in magic cables ? Just thinking of some games that I usually play when I was a kid. Try to use two cans and connect them with a small long cable then two people just hang around, talk and listen to each other. Next try to use a better cable. Magic happens .


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Some of you really do not trust in magic cables
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was doubtful about câble , ordered a custom order at a local shop : mogami 2543 , switchcraft mini xlr connector neutrik 6.35 connector for my gone AKG K702 ,(spl auditor was my amp at time , and A-GD NFB-17.2 as DAC) .
   
  first : wow yeah it's different , it's better blablablabla , but wait seams a bit old placebo effect .
   
  Plug the stock cable : well that's for sure this is just placebo , custom made cable and stock cable sound exactly the same , why was i expecting something different from a stupid cable , and many many others fantasies vanished  .


----------



## adydula

Hey Love,
   
  How on earth are you going to connect the $215 magic cable to the tin cans?
   
  Send us a pix of that!
   
  lol
   
  Alex
   
  PS: Thought I read a blind AB test where the string conductor actually won out??


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





ixion said:


> My ODAC is now being pushed along by an iFI iUSBpower, massive smile on my face as I type this.
> 
> Too much of an audio nub to describe what I'm hearing but it's a fair bit smarter then it was yesterday...


 
  Congratulations on the purchase of the  iFI iUSBpower. I'm glad  that it did put a massive smile on your face.
   
  But _philosophically 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _speaking (ha, ha, ..) _in general  _something is wrong with the picture.
  - Please don't get me wrong. I'm not  critisizing your purchase. -
   
  The price of the device is _only _$199 .... and the ODAC is _under _$149 (assembled).
  So, the power supply is at least  $50 more expensive than the price of the ODAC itself.
  If it were, say  the Benchmark - DAC-1 (~$1600) or DAC2 HGC (~$2K), etc.  this would be  another story.
   
   
  I guess,  we're living in the _crazy Head-Fi world._
   
   
   
  P.S.
  By the way, my new JDS Labs ODAC with the included USB cable (with the _ferrite bead) _
  connected via the FiiO cable (from JDS Labs)  to the _standalone _O2 (also from JDS Labs) sound *crystal clear and clean  *_





 _through the Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 Ohm).
  Am I not a Son of a Gun?
   
  ****************************
  EDIT
  I am sure that _objectively and subjectively _speaking the ODAC and/or O2 are _not _meant to rely on expensive power supplies.


----------



## LoveKnight

Not sure if stable power is essential or not but in my situation sometimes my father or my brother turns on, turns off the lights, I can hear some strange noise. Look like my laptop does not have clean power. However that happened when I used Fiio E10. Now I have been using ODAC with ferrite usb cable so I still have not heard that noise again but it could happen, who knows. 
   
  Hope I will have an interesting experience with power and how it affects sound quality in future when I buy a new DAC/AMP combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





snip3r77 said:


> Anyone?


 
   
  I guess you don't have odac+o2 combo from JDS?
  So if I understand you correctly, on rear side you have:
   
  USB In (odac)
  3.5 mm Out (odac)
   
  and front side:
  3.5 mm In (o2)
  3.5 mm Out (o2)
   
  Or at least this is the only way how I can imagine using only odac part and without AC adapter in odac+o2 combo


----------



## snip3r77

Yes those ports you said are correct. All major parts are from JDS but self assembled. 



dano91 said:


> I guess you don't have odac+o2 combo from JDS?
> So if I understand you correctly, on rear side you have:
> 
> USB In (odac)
> ...


----------



## shadow419

Quote: 





snip3r77 said:


> Yes those ports you said are correct. All major parts are from JDS but self assembled.


 
  Do you get the same distortion through the O2 amp output?
  Any chance of some macro shots?  The odac should only be putting out around 2V and 339 wouldn't have any issues with that at all.


----------



## snip3r77

shadow419 said:


> Do you get the same distortion through the O2 amp output?
> Any chance of some macro shots?  The odac should only be putting out around 2V and 339 wouldn't have any issues with that at all.




Swap back to my odac+o2, foobar at max volume, using low gain and it was alright...
Hmm...clueless


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





havoc-28 said:


> I was doubtful about câble , ordered a custom order at a local shop : mogami 2543 , switchcraft mini xlr connector neutrik 6.35 connector for my gone AKG K702 ,(spl auditor was my amp at time , and A-GD NFB-17.2 as DAC) .
> 
> first : wow yeah it's different , it's better blablablabla , but wait seams a bit old placebo effect .
> 
> Plug the stock cable : well that's for sure this is just placebo , custom made cable and stock cable sound exactly the same , why was i expecting something different from a stupid cable , and many many others fantasies vanished  .


 

 Mogami is dead neutral to my ears. You would have heard some minor differences if you had used say an ultra low capacitance wire such as ALO SXC or some random Belden wire.
  I used Mogami with my Sennheiser HD-598 because it really doesn't really change how it sounds from stock. Weird right? There are some small improvements however.
   
  I also use Mogami with my Q701 because it's as good as stock. Sounds mostly the same. A little warmer, but barely audible. I've tried 3 others and they suck all the warmth out and I don't want that.
   
  Also for whatever reason it was stupid easy to hear some changes in cables with my HRT MSII, but less so with the ODAC.
   
  I do believe in cables making slight audible improvements, but it's mostly the DIY varieties that I like.
   
  I think it all must have to do with the capacitance ratings of cables when built. That was my idea.
   
  It reminds me of the differences of well built amps and DACs. They could both be well built, have very low distortion and be really transparent but sound totally different. I mean it's like one can be slightly fuller sounding and the other more cold/analytical. I don't know what causes the changes. To me, cables are like this. Call me stupid if you want.
   
  EDIT: BTW getting a cheap custom cable for the K702 that sounds exactly like the stock cable is a GOOD thing. Hopefully you didn't pay over $60 because it could only cost $30 if you did it yourself. Mogami is dirt cheap. Every aftermarket cable for the K702 i've tried is worse. I even tried an ALO SXC cable and it sounds nice at first but just makes it thinner and more analytical. Why? No idea. My guess is that SXC has a super duper low capacitance rating. Sometimes a cable that's technically worse sounds better IMO. For example I like the crappy stock HD-650 cable on my HD-650. Cables never made more than a 5% difference for me.


----------



## shadow419

Quote: 





snip3r77 said:


> Swap back to my odac+o2, foobar at max volume, using low gain and it was alright...
> Hmm...clueless


 
  I'd suspect the 3.5mm out on the odac as a culprit then.  With no distortion using the O2 amp through the odac, and no distortion using the 339 with another dac, that has to be the hangup.
   
  Edit: that's why I asked for a macro shot if possible on the odac.  Maybe a bad joint on the 3.5mm out or just a faulty jack.


----------



## adydula

The Odac is well built in that it is 'layed' out for optimal performance...being well built doesn't mean that its performing well...there are many audio devices that are built like a brick you know what and don't perform well or perform "mediocre"..
   
  Also IMO amps or dacs that are totally transparent, have to sound the same....or there not transparent...
   
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The Odac is well built in that it is 'layed' out for optimal performance...being well built doesn't mean that its performing well...there are many audio devices that are built like a brick you know what and don't perform well or perform "mediocre"..
> 
> *Also IMO amps or dacs that are totally transparent, have to sound the same....or there not transparent...*
> 
> Alex


 
   
  I don't know if I'd agree with this part based on my experiences so far with amps. For example, both my Magni and Headroom Micro never alter how a headphone sounds in any dramatic way. If a headphone is too bright or too bassy and warm it won't alter that.
   
  With both amps they sound almost exactly like what's attached to them. If I use a crappy Clip+ connected to them it sounds like a Clip+ with minor improvements. It's like the amp itself disappears. For the longest time I blamed my amp for a small soundstage and it was the HRT MSII's fault. There's no way that thing could be transparent. Unless a DAC can still be quite warm and still transparent 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  When comparing the Magni to the Micro Amp it seems like the Micro is a bit fuller sounding, but this is nearly inaudible. I guess the difference is so minor that they'd still be considered transparent. They both measure ruler flat and the Micro isn't a warm amp and doesn't have any rolled off treble. That was when I was using the ODAC.
   
  The question though I always had is which one was more revealing of what's attached to it? I have no clue. I'm going with the Micro.
   
  Both the ODAC and Modi are transparent, but I always felt like the Modi had better imaging and better soundstage depth and height. Other than this they sounded identical. How do you measure soundstage depth and height on paper anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I would have NO clue how a DAC gets the soundstage of a recording accurate.
   
  I wonder also what makes the Fiio E9 less transparent when it measures completely flat? It seems that thing sounds good but when switching sources it's a LOT tougher to hear the differences in sources. When I used the HRT MSII with it it sounded like the E9 was almost adding it's own coloration.
   
  I do believe the ODAC, Modi and Magni/Micro are really transparent, but there's some slight differences. None of the differences are enough to alter my music or headphones. I would say the Micro is like a Magni that's less cold and analytical, but probably very transparent.
   
  Strangely my Ipod Touch 2G seems colder than the ODAC. I wonder if it's DAC is considered transparent. Hardly likely, but it sounds pretty flat except for some slightly edgy treble.
   
  Also..I wonder why people always called transparent DACs "bright"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I heard that first with the O2, then the ODAC and now the Magni! I think they should blame the music instead or something. Some of my songs sound pretty bad on almost any setup.
   
  Still trying to figure all this stuff out. I also found that with some headphones I can hear the difference in equipment changes, but with my DJ100, HD-650 and Q701 it's very easy.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  If a DAC or amplifier alters how a headphone sounds in any audible way, it isn't transparent ("neutral".) The more the alteration ("noise" or "distortion") tends toward dramatic, the less transparent is the device. These aren't value judgments, or indications necessarily of goodness or badness, they simply follow from the meaning of transparent.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I don't know if I'd agree with this part based on my experiences so far with amps. For example, both my Magni and Headroom Micro never alter how a headphone sounds in any dramatic way. If a headphone is too bright or too bassy and warm it won't alter that.
> 
> With both amps they sound almost exactly like what's attached to them. If I use a crappy Clip+ connected to them it sounds like a Clip+ with minor improvements. It's like the amp itself disappears. For the longest time I blamed my amp for a small soundstage and it was the HRT MSII's fault. There's no way that thing could be transparent. Unless a DAC can still be quite warm and still transparent
> 
> ...


 
  I like what you say about the Clip+ which I own as well.
   
  This was my (experimental) _crazy _rig featuring  _double-amping_:
  Clip+ --->* O2  *--> BeyerdynamicDT 880 (250 Ohm) ===> horrible sound
  Clip+ ---> *O2* --> Sennheiser HD 595 (50 Ohm)      ===> bad sound
  Clip+ ---> Sennheiser HD 595 (50 Ohm)  ===> very poor sound
   
  I clearly need sub-$25 IMEs to listen to the Clip+
  I din't want to buy any IMMs over $25 to get a decent sound out of my Clip+


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> I like what you say about the Clip+ which I own as well.
> 
> This was my (experimental) _crazy _rig featuring  _double-amping_:
> Clip+ --->* O2  *--> BeyerdynamicDT 880 (250 Ohm) ===> horrible sound
> ...


 
   
  The Clip+ sure is a steal for the price, but something is just weird about that thing. It seems to measure ruler flat and all that, but it still seems congested with some headphones. Maybe it's just a lack of power or something. I spent a year with the Clip+ as my main portable source and never realized how warm it was until I switched to my Ipod Touch 2G and ODAC using my KRK headphones.
   
  I also don't notice much change when using the Line Out of my Fuze. The headphone out seems to sound better and not just due to distortion or whatever.
   
  The ODAC is weird because it doesn't sound warm or cold. Just about right, but maybe 1-2% more warmth would be OK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know you can't call a transparent DAC like the ODAC "musical", but it is!! Guess it's just a good match with my music and amp. 
   
  For some reason the best sounding DAC I've heard (I've not heard many) is in the Ipod 3G monochrome version. It's probably colored in some way. Perhaps slightly rolled off treble. It reminds me of the old SCPH-1001 PS1 but maybe not that warm.
   
  Oh and none of this has nothing to do with which is more transparent. That thing makes me want to stay up and listen to music all night when I use it. ODAC and Modi are technically better etc.
   
  Also it seems that Ipods are better than Sansa devices for say the warmer Sennheiser headphones. At least that's my opinion. I hated the HD-650 when using it around the house with a Clip+ or Fuze with amp.


----------



## snip3r77

Quote: 





shadow419 said:


> I'd suspect the 3.5mm out on the odac as a culprit then.  With no distortion using the O2 amp through the odac, and no distortion using the 339 with another dac, that has to be the hangup.
> 
> Edit: that's why I asked for a macro shot if possible on the odac.  Maybe a bad joint on the 3.5mm out or just a faulty jack.


 

   
  Hi shadow, pls see if this pic is useful.


----------



## shadow419

Kind of blurry, but nothing jumps out at me.  If you can I'd reflow the output jack on the odac just to be sure.  It may just be a bad jack.


----------



## LoveKnight

Few days ago I met a problem. Sometimes when I touch my C421 and ODAC, I felt some strange noise coming from my headphone. I thought what was happening but I had no clue. The problem became worse when I touch the cable and suddenly all of the sound is gone with dead silent, no signal. Today I found out that the problem was my laptop because my electricity is not stable and clean. In my country most of devices use only two stick plug not three. Then I tried to unplug the power of my laptop and let it used its own battery. I could feel all of the noise was gone with maybe a little better clarity, sound (or maybe it was just my imagination). Look like when I want to enjoy music I have to unplug the power but it leads to another problem is the power life of my laptop is low, about 1 or 1.5 hour, phew.


----------



## zzffnn

adydula said:


> The Odac is well built in that it is 'layed' out for optimal performance...being well built doesn't mean that its performing well...there are many audio devices that are built like a brick you know what and don't perform well or perform "mediocre"..
> 
> Also IMO amps or dacs that are totally transparent, have to sound the same....or there not transparent...
> 
> Alex




X2


----------



## LoveKnight

Quote: 





seaweed said:


> I'd like to second, er.. third the observation that the ODAC is very close to the Bifrost. At least in detail extraction. But they do sound different. The Bifrost has a smoother, richer, fuller sound. The downside I find is there is a loss of instrument transients and attack with this DAC.
> 
> I also find the ODAC's treble to be pretty hot and maybe even a little grainy as well, leading to fatigue. I'm debating on returning it for this reason as well. I may just keep both as long as my wife doesn't find out. The DacMagic 100 had a very sweet detailed treble, but I returned it to try the Bifrost and don't have it on hand to compare.
> 
> ...


 

 Today, I looked back to this thread and found out this post and I think it is true, somehow I feel Odac has piercing treble, not full sound in the mid-range, little bit dry, not harsh but fatiguing if listening for a long time. I am trying to overcome by using EQ, foorbar plugins but not perfect. Perhaps trying a tube amp or upgrading cable could help. Not sure.


----------



## adydula

If you think that the ODAC is the cause of piercing highs, brittle treble etc....then get rid of it and get something you think does'nt.
   
  It could be your 'ears' and your God given capabilities of hearing.
   
  It could be the stuff your listening to....lots of music is recorded and produced with emphasis on the high end etc....and is crap.
   
  It could be your cans,
   
  It could be your mood.
   
  Gosh it could be a lot of things.....
   
  I have several other pieces of audio gear that has ESS dacs, an OPPO deck...etc...and they dont sound brittle to me.
   
  I highly doubt that the ODAC is the source of your dilemma, it usually turns out to be something else or a in-grained bias.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## mnarwold

Quote: 





adydula said:


> I highly doubt that the ODAC is the source of your dilemma, it usually turns out to be something else or a in-grained bias.
> 
> All the best
> Alex


 
  I agree. How can a device with ruler flat frequency produce piercing treble? It can when it is coupled to a device that has piercing treble or when the listener is used to hearing a less than ruler flat frequency response. You're not hearing the dac but rather the lack of it. It's like going from using an EQ that boosts the bass and cuts the highs and then turning it off. The music will sound bright and have no body since you're used to the other sound. Personally, I believe you get enough coloration out of headphones that I don't want to add more with my dac or amp.


----------



## elmura

Flat frequency response is not an automatic indicator of natural sound, clean sound, or general sound presentation. It only indicates a neutral tonal balance.
   
  Harsh or hard treble could be noise, phase shift, lack of transient current delivery, poor slew rate, distortion or a myriad of other things.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





elmura said:


> Flat frequency response is not an automatic indicator of natural sound, clean sound, or general sound presentation. It only indicates a neutral tonal balance.
> 
> Harsh or hard treble could be noise, phase shift, lack of transient current delivery, poor slew rate, distortion or a myriad of other things.


 
   
  That's a good point: No DAC or amp (or any other electrical device) can avoid producing at least some phase-shift, current-delivery, slew-rate, TIM, THD, frequency-response, or any other type of noise (distortion.)
   
  Fortunately, for "98%" of headphones, the ODAC, and O2, reduce the audibility of these problems below the threshold of human hearing ... fortunate, that is, for those who own one and want neutral devices.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Today, I looked back to this thread and found out this post and I think it is true, somehow I feel Odac has piercing treble, not full sound in the mid-range, little bit dry, not harsh but fatiguing if listening for a long time. I am trying to overcome by using EQ, foorbar plugins but not perfect. Perhaps trying a tube amp or upgrading cable could help. Not sure.


 

 Have you tried using a powered USB hub with the ODAC? If not, just try it. Don't think about it. All those sound like symptoms of crappy USB ports. Yeah despite it powering the ODAC "well enough".
  I can't use any DACs without a powered USB hub with my desktop PC or laptop.
   
  I always found the ODAC non-fatiguing, but it does seem a little more forward in the mids compared to the Modi. Yeah and still measuring flat.
   
  That's the only difference I could really pick out easily.
   
  Lately i've been thinking I might like some slight coloration (still flat). I guess my Ipod Classic 3G and my Sony Blu-Ray player has me spoiled. They both use Wolfson DACs and seem to have a slight touch of warmth. Not enough to ruin any headphone.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

> Originally Posted by *tdockweiler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]
> I always found the ODAC non-fatiguing, but it does seem a little more forward in the mids compared to the Modi. Yeah and still measuring flat.
> [...]


 
   
  The ODAC is neutral, so it sounds like the Modi fails to produce a flat response.
   
   


> Originally Posted by *tdockweiler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]
> Lately i've been thinking I might like some slight coloration (still flat).
> [...]


 
   

  I think the proper thing is to choose the device whose sound you find most pleasing. However, if the response is flat, _by definition_ it can't be colored. Those two phrases are contradictory.


----------



## LoveKnight

Okey, sound like I need a USB power hub with power supply. However, that is not in my upgrade path now. I am going to consider it after purchase MoonAudio Black Dragon and a portable hard drive.
   
  I hope I am going to find out more of my music taste and pairing with Sennheiser headphones on this Sunday morning after the meeting. Will have a chance to listen to more higher headphones and higher dacs,amps.


----------



## adani

Can I connect 50 Ohm headphones directly to ODAC, without an amplifier. I know about possible distortions and that this is not the way it is meant to be, but the question is - is it safe for the DAC and headphones in the long run?


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





adani said:


> Can I connect 50 Ohm headphones directly to ODAC, without an amplifier. I know about possible distortions and that this is not the way it is meant to be, but the question is - is it safe for the DAC and headphones in the long run?


 
  I've done it and it sounds very clear, but it is lacking the weight even a small amp brings.
   
  I dunno, got fatiguing really quick.
   
  *Just used the Shure SHR440s with the ODAC only now and the above is confirmed, could not listen for more than two minutes.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> The ODAC is neutral, so it sounds like the Modi fails to produce a flat response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The ODAC and Modi are both flat, but the mids on the ODAC often sound more forward due to worse soundstage depth and height. You can often notice this on the ODAC when listening to vocals that should be in front of you but spaced further away. It's like on the ODAC it's harder to judge the distance. The ODAC seems to shove the sound closer to me. Also, the Modi measures flat and is very transparent too.
   
  When I mean slight coloration, I meant that I MIGHT prefer something with a touch of warmth. If that's not your definition of slight coloration then OK. For example, the Clip+ measures ruler flat but yet doesn't sound cold and analytical, but quite warm.
   
  The amount of warmth I get on the Ipod 3G Classic and the Creative X-Fi Go Pro DAC is about perfect.
   
  Also, the E17 supposedly measures flat, but in comparison might make the ODAC and Modi seem cold. So maybe that's not quite a coloration.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


>





> The ODAC and Modi are both flat, but the mids on the ODAC often sound more forward due to worse soundstage depth and height.


 
   
  No, that can't be right either.
   
  The ODAC is transparent (neutral) and doesn't create a good or bad 'soundstage depth and height." It simply reproduces the 'soundstage depth and height' of the source with _no audible difference_.
   
  Does the Modi really create a different 'soundstage depth and height'. If so, it's due to _audible distortion_.
   
  Do you like the Modi better? If so, it's the right choice for you. However, you're still misidentifying the cause.


----------



## LoveKnight

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> *The ODAC and Modi are both flat, but the mids on the ODAC often sound more forward due to worse soundstage depth and height. You can often notice this on the ODAC when listening to vocals that should be in front of you but spaced further away. It's like on the ODAC it's harder to judge the distance. The ODAC seems to shove the sound closer to me*. Also, the Modi measures flat and is very transparent too.
> 
> When I mean slight coloration, I meant that I MIGHT prefer something with a touch of warmth. If that's not your definition of slight coloration then OK. For example, the Clip+ measures ruler flat but yet doesn't sound cold and analytical, but quite warm.
> 
> ...


 
  That could explain a lot of things to me . Thanks. Now I know what causes my problem.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> No, that can't be right either.
> 
> The ODAC is transparent (neutral) and doesn't create a good or bad 'soundstage depth and height." It simply reproduces the 'soundstage depth and height' of the source with _no audible difference_.
> 
> ...


 
   
  All I know is this is what it sounds like to my ears. This is after nearly a week of comparing them. Both measure flat so I can't explain the cause. They both sound identical except when it comes to soundstage differences. What causes the differences is up to someone else to figure out. The Modi just sounded more right to me and was $50 cheaper. I'd be happy with either.
   
  Have you compared both? If not you would just have to hear them both.
   
  You sound like one of those who think the ODAC is the world's most perfect DAC. Nothing wrong with that and it's probably close! To me the Modi sounds like the ODAC with a slightly more accurate/better soundstage. Again, don't know what causes the differences. I think i've seen that the Modi has very low distortion  that's comparable to the ODAC. The differences in sound are so minor that's it's not worth arguing over.
   
  People should compare them both before saying I'm wrong etc.
   
  One good example is on the Red Violin soundtrack. A man is playing a violin in front of you (nothing else in the recording) and gets closer and closer and closer. On the ODAC it's almost impossible to tell the short distances between the start and end. Nitpick much? It sounds like it's mostly coming from one specific area on the ODAC. Not sure why.
   
  Picking any songs where the vocals are more distant sounding is a good test. Not distant, but say spaced back a tad.
   
  Could be many different reasons including the Modi being less transparent. But they basically sound identical to me, so that's all that matters. Comparing the HRT MSII to the ODAC is stupid easy, but the Modi and ODAC is majorly tough.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Comparison done with right volume matched ? (With something like a decibel meter)
   
  If not everything is possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Give me many DAC if they are not volume matched they all will sound different to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (or almost) , but if they are volume matched huhu . (if they are not faulty or anything ) .
   
  A-GD NFB-2/17.2 , Ha Info U2 Plus , ODAC , Pioneer DVD player , Creative X-Fi Titanium HD , Spitfire MK2 , at volume matched ... damn all sound the same , no volume matched : almost all sounded different ...
   
   
  Who does correctly volume matched comparison here ? , not many i think ^^ , hears are not like decibel meters they can't know if their is 0.5db + or - . And this 0.5 db can change many things like perceveid soudstage , mids etc 
   
   
  Peraphs some will hear differences i don't know , i just speak about my limited experiences , at least i am no more subject to evil placebo and i thik that transparent device should sound all the same .
   
  And about Modi VS ODAC
   
  Output Level, Maximum: 1.5V RMS (Schiit Modi)
   
  ODAC is 2.0V (standard redbook)  
   
   
  If you don't do any volume matching it will sound different for sure . 
   
   
  No volume matching effects are underestimate here .


----------



## LoveKnight

Then how do we do the volume matching? Sorry I am still a new small bird in audio.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Then how do we do the volume matching? Sorry I am still a new small bird in audio.


 
   
  A decibel meter , a constant tone and it's done .


----------



## adydula

The difference for me between the ODAC and the HRT Streamer II + was zip, zero , nada....not difficult at all to tell that they sound very much alike.
  If you take a look at the schematic the AOUTL and AOUTR are pretty much direct outputs to the output jack. There is a series resistor and cap in each of the audio output lines.
   
  The only real impact on the analog would be in this route or in the DAC chip itself on the analog side after the conversion.
   
  I highly doubt there is any real world difference at all being heard here.....maybe its the brand of beer your drinking?? LOL.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The difference for me between the ODAC and the HRT Streamer II + was zip, zero , nada....not difficult at all to tell that they sound very much alike.
> If you take a look at the schematic the AOUTL and AOUTR are pretty much direct outputs to the output jack. There is a series resistor and cap in each of the audio output lines.
> 
> The only real impact on the analog would be in this route or in the DAC chip itself on the analog side after the conversion.
> ...


 
   
  HRT MSII+ and not the regular MSII? If so this makes sense probably. I had the $150 MSII and not the + version.
  I've found the MSII to add a little warmth to some headphones. It did that for the SRH-940, Q701, K601 and a few others. I guess some could say it's leaning over to being slightly "musical". Whatever the heck that means.
  When I got my ODAC I was surprised at how much more smoother my Q701 sounded. The differences were quite large for me. Soundstage of the MSII was awful IMO. People can cry over that comment if they want 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Maybe it was due to the extra warmth of the MSII. With extra warmth your brain is fooled into thinking the soundstage is smaller.
  I seriously blamed my amp for the longest time for having a small soundstage and it was caused by the HRT MSII. Zero doubt of that.
   
  Maybe the HRT MSII+ is meant to be as transparent as possible and the MSII a little less so. Who knows..
   
  Also there are people out there that can't tell the difference between the ODAC and a $35 X-Fi Go Pro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There isn't even a massive difference between the Go Pro and the Modi/ODAC.
   
  I rarely ever go by DAC reviews anymore and usually I base it all on how well they play with my headphones. If they're adding too much of anything I'm not really interested. A tiny bit of warmth is OK sometimes.
  I've found the HRT MSII to be too warm with my DJ100 and it wasn't due to the amps.
   
  To me it seems like the most popular amps and DACs on Head-Fi are usually slightly colored.
   
  Now I wonder how the Bifrost compares to the ODAC?


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The difference for me between the ODAC and the HRT Streamer II + was zip, zero , nada....not difficult at all to tell that they sound very much alike.
> If you take a look at the schematic the AOUTL and AOUTR are pretty much direct outputs to the output jack. There is a series resistor and cap in each of the audio output lines.
> 
> The only real impact on the analog would be in this route or in the DAC chip itself on the analog side after the conversion.
> ...


 
   
  I agree. The ODAC and O2 are definitely not the only neutral devices on the market. They're simply the ones I chose.
   
  Unfortunately, by attempting to point out a series of misconceptions, I seem to have blasphemed against someone's  "I don't know but I must be right" religious cult. Again.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> I agree. The ODAC and O2 are definitely not the only neutral devices on the market. They're simply the ones I chose.
> 
> Unfortunately, by attempting to point out a series of misconceptions, I seem to have blasphemed against someone's  "I don't know but I must be right" religious cult. Again.


 

 What the heck are you talking about?
 religious cult? A little bit over dramatic aren't we?
  What's just as bad are those that think all neutral devices must sound exactly the same if they measure flat.
  Then they claim they know exactly what something sounds like without actually having tried it.
  FYI nobody here is claiming they're right, but just trying to figure out what causes all the changes we're hearing. Nothing wrong with that.
  What's more cult-like are those that think the ODAC is so transparent that everything that sounds very slightly different must obviously be colored.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You said you're you're "just trying to figure out what causes all the changes [you're hearing]", but then reject obvious, correct explanations. To avoid future disagreements, I'll stop replying to your posts. I apologize for offending you.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> You said you're you're "just trying to figure out what causes all the changes [you're hearing]", but then reject obvious, correct explanations. To avoid future disagreements, I'll stop replying to your posts. I apologize for offending you.


 

 No, you've been helpful and I wasn't rejecting any of your ideas. I'm not trying to argue. You mentioned the soundstage differences could be due to distortion and this seemed strange because the Modi has such low distortion as it is. Probably similar to the ODAC. In my previous posts I actually mentioned this could be possible. I can't say it's the correct answer until I know for sure.
   
  The problem I have is that sometimes I'll never be able to figure out the exact reasons behind all the differences I'm hearing. I'd much rather figure them out instead of simply blaming it on not volume matching or placebo.
   
  Anyway, none of this is important. Both of the ODAC and Modi are very transparent, so that's all that matters. I'd probably fail a blind test between the two. With the ODAC vs HRT MSII (not + version) it'd be quite easy.
   
  You could be right that perhaps the Modi is less transparent, but measurements show it completely flat and it sounds almost identical to the ODAC. The mids of the Modi do seem a little more "relaxed" than the ODAC which makes no sense at all. The differences are so small it's not worth mentioning though.


----------



## LoveKnight

Alright. Today after the Sennheiser meeting, I borrowed my friend's USB power hub which is Kensington 4 USB ports and it is more than $30 on Amazon. Plugging or connect my ODAC C421 2227. I could not believe what I am hearing. Everything is so smooth, details, sound-stage is bigger and more correct and especially the mid-range is fuller than normal without USB hub.
   
I do not know what the hell is going but now I have believed in +-5v for ODAC. It certainly can boost ODAC to it's full potential. Sure. Ha ha ha now I am considering Vaunix USB power hub and Moon Audio Black Dragon V2, which one should I buy first seriously?.
   
  I take back my words. With or without USB Power hub. ODAC sounds the same. It was just my imagination because I was a bit tired after a long trip.
   
  Sorry guys.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Alright. Today after the Sennheiser meeting, I borrowed my friend's USB power hub which is Kensington 4 USB ports and it is more than $30 on Amazon. Plugging or connect my ODAC C421 2227. I could not believe what I am hearing. Everything is so smooth, details, sound-stage is bigger and more correct and especially the mid-range is fuller than normal without USB hub.
> 
> I do not know what the hell is going but now I have believed in +-5v for ODAC. It certainly can boost ODAC to it's full potential. Sure. Ha ha ha now I am considering Vaunix USB power hub and Moon Audio Black Dragon V2, which one should I buy first seriously?.


 
   
  For that $400+, you get nothing or real value.Your money is better spend on another pair of headphones or lots of new music or both.


----------



## adydula

Well,
   
  I had the Had the HRT MSII for a few months and then bought the MSII+.
   
  I really did not hear anything that told me that one was any better than the other with the speakers and cans.
   
  But I feel better knowing I have a asynchronous usb dac!!!
   
  and the ODAC being synchronous...the best of both worlds!
   
  They both do the job...
   
  I find my mood and brain interactions have more to do with how they sound than they actually do!
   
  LOL
   
  Later
  Alex


----------



## JakeJack_2008

I've read the last few pages about the ODAC's vs. Modi's sounstage _depth _and _height_.
  No _width _was mentioned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
   
  Anyway, as far as I remember,  I've read (perhaps in the UHA-6S MKII thread) that a guy was saying:
   
   
   
  Quote:  





> the UHA6S-MKII soundstage was focused on *depth *whereas the ODAC's soundstage was focused on *width.*


 
   
   
   
   
  Yes, he used the verb _'focus'_.
   
  So, he emphasized that the ODAC's soundstage wasn't as deep as the UHA6S-MKII's one! 
   
  P.S.
  That is, as far as I remember.
   
  EDIT
  Maybe  this was the post or maybe _not _





:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/602493/new-leckerton-uha-6s-mkii-portable-headphone-amplifier-announced-update-user-impressions-added-july-20th-2012/975#post_8905326
   
  But I think that I've seen something about the _ODAC _in the above mentioned thread or somewhere else.
   
  Anyway, ain't it interesting?


----------



## LoveKnight

Yeah with ODAC and C421, I can feel the width sound-stage that they delivery but the depth maybe not too good, just average I think and I do not have other DACs to compare.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Yeah with ODAC and C421, I can feel the width sound-stage that they delivery but the depth maybe not too good, just average I think and I do not have other DACs to compare.


 

 No, the ODAC doesn't create, eliminate, enhance, or reduce 'soundstage' depth, width, or height.
   
  The message to which you're replying was sarcasm..


----------



## yifu

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> No, the ODAC doesn't create, eliminate, enhance, or reduce 'soundstage' depth, width, or height.
> 
> The message to which you're replying was sarcasm..


 
  No, but it does enhance/improve soundstage dept when compared to the onboard DAC, among other things like noise. Point is it does generate an audible improvement for someone coming from onboard audio.


----------



## lorriman

yifu said:


> No, but it does enhance/improve soundstage dept when compared to the onboard DAC, among other things like noise. Point is it does generate an audible improvement for someone coming from onboard audio.




Well....that depends. From my experience (subjective), the onboard audio can be impossible for me to distinguish from my ODAC/O2 combo. My suspicion, which I've mentioned elsewhere, is that the mature cheapo soundcards, that are not doing anything special, have been producing hifi for a few years now (excepting huge variations in output impedance).

The O2/ODAC designer has already proven that developing both transparent amplification and transparent DAC does not need billions of dollars of investment and that there is little justification, in this modern era, for very expensive kit. Take economies of scale in to consideration then there is a possibility that anyone with a modern, mature, cheap onboard Sigmatel,Realtek etc sound has already got hifi (excepting the issue of output impedance, and perhaps detectable, under test conditions, but practicably irrelevant: noise).

And so personally I am not, these days, surprised to often see people reporting their disappointment at not getting the delight they expected when using external DACs/USB-sound-cards.


----------



## Hi Rez

[size=11pt]My ODAC showed up in the mail yesterday.  Pleasantly surprised – not just by the size.  Music details come through pretty nicely considering it gets it’s power from USB. [/size]
   
[size=11pt]I personally found fine music textures to be mostly missing, and voices to not be as natural sounding as they are on my other DACs, but it seems a fair musical value for the price.[/size]


----------



## Airstripone

I've been using O2+ODAC combo for 2 months, it's clean. I often turn it on High Gain when listening to HD600. It also works really well with my JH16.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





hi rez said:


> [size=11pt]I personally found fine music textures to be mostly missing, and voices to not be as natural sounding as they are on my other DACs, but it seems a fair musical value for the price.[/size]


 
   
  You've reached the wrong conclusions. Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion. But if you find them pleasing, you should stick with them as neutral equipment isn't to your taste. Price has nothing do to with it.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> You've reached the wrong conclusions. Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion. But if you find them pleasing, you should stick with them as neutral equipment isn't to your taste. Price has nothing do to with it.


 
  I agree that the ODAC is neutral if you mean it has a flat measured frequency response.  But pretty much every DAC measures a flat frequency response, and by that would also be considered neutral.  Nothing against the ODAC - I just didn't find it to resolve the fine details as well as my other DACS, pretty much throughout the frequency spectrum.  With the ODAC, bass notes weren't as resolved, plucked guitar strings weren't as sharp, voices had more sibilance, brushed cymbals were less clear....  
   
  Interesting that you are saying that it must be distortion that is adding this fine detail to the music with my DACs.  In my experience, distortion tends to smear fine detail, not enhance it.


----------



## adydula

"Considering it gets its power from USB??"
   
  Here we go again....
   
  Alex


----------



## LoveKnight

Here we go again, I am going to order other DAC and compare them. ODAC is great but not my type of dac, I am sure.


----------



## Battou62

Who let the lemmings into this thread. Adydula, I am disappoint


----------



## Dano91

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> You've reached the wrong conclusions. Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion. But if you find them pleasing, you should stick with them as neutral equipment isn't to your taste. Price has nothing do to with it.


 

 Sorry, but are you paid for defending ODAC and/or O2 ?


----------



## Rem0o

He's playing a role here to create a balance with some other posts. An important role I might add, because the lack of objectivity most of the time turns any constructive discussion into a subjective mess.


----------



## tuna47

Would the bifrost be a large upgrade over the odac with lyr amp he500 phones


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





adydula said:


> "Considering it gets its power from USB??"
> 
> Here we go again....


 
   
  It's an unfortunate fact of life, one that manufacturers rely on to peddle their underperforming, overpriced wares.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





dano91 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was merely stating the facts. Your attempt at personal insult was unnecessary.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





rem0o said:


> He's playing a role here to create a balance with some other posts. An important role I might add, because the lack of objectivity most of the time turns any constructive discussion into a subjective mess.


 
   
  It is a bit of a challenge to interpret the below quote as objective.  My preference for my other DACS is because they add non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Since the ODAC is neutral, your other DACs must be adding non-existent textures and an unnatural sound through their particular brands of distortion.


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





hi rez said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You originally claimed the ODAC was lacking in texture (which means the mixture of voices -- instruments and/or singers -- and the way they're combined in melody, harmony, and/or rhythm.) You next redefined neutral as meaning nothing more than a flat frequency response. Then, rather than a lack of texture, it was a lack of detail. Then, it was a lack of resolution. I was, as the poster to whom you're responding mentioned, merely trying to clarify the mess.
   
  The ODAC isn't alone in being neutral: Far from it. However, if there's an _audible difference_ between a neutral device (one that adds no audible distortion) and some other device, the other device is adding distortion. It's an inescapable conclusion.
   
  Being neutral doesn't mean it's the most pleasing to any listener, yet another inescapable conclusion. Your preferences, and mine, don't enter into the discussion of neutrality. It's simply what we like to hear.


----------



## adydula

If you think USB power is at fault and introducing distortion then fix your PC, or get a powered hub.
   
  or buy a BIG battery...
   
  I have cut many USB cables apart and wired in pure DC sources...and it doenst make ANY real world differences...
   
  But thats "my' experience....and for a lemming thats good!
   
  LOL..
   
  Alex
   
  Note: Go get a Oscilloscope and look at the signal coming out of your dac....U should be able to see this "distortion"....post pics for us all to see.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> You originally claimed the ODAC was lacking in texture (which means the mixture of voices -- instruments and/or singers -- and the way they're combined in melody, harmony, and/or rhythm.) You next redefined neutral as meaning nothing more than a flat frequency response. Then, rather than a lack of texture, it was a lack of detail. Then, it was a lack of resolution. I was, as the poster to whom you're responding mentioned, merely trying to clarify the mess.
> 
> The ODAC isn't alone in being neutral: Far from it. However, if there's an _audible difference_ between a neutral device (one that adds no audible distortion) and some other device, the other device is adding distortion. It's an inescapable conclusion.
> 
> Being neutral doesn't mean it's the most pleasing to any listener, yet another inescapable conclusion. Your preferences, and mine, don't enter into the discussion of neutrality. It's simply what we like to hear.


 
   
  Quote: 





hi rez said:


> I agree that the ODAC is neutral if you mean it has a flat measured frequency response.


 
  Excellent.   Let's certainly clarify our use of terms.  
   
  Your definition of texture wasn't quite what I expected.  I was referencing the definition from the Head-Fi Glossary.  I would agree though that more resolved musical textures (Head-Fi definition) certainly enhance the perception of melody, harmony, and/or rhythm (your definition).
   
  T*exture* - A perceptible pattern or structure in reproduced sound.
   
  I don't find the use of resolution in the context of "resolving" musical textures to be inconsistent at all.
   
*Resolution* -  the capability of an system to distinguish details.
   
  You used the term neutral first.  I was asking you how you defined neutral by starting my statement with "if you mean".  You've now clarified your use of neutral as no audible distortion.  For additional clarity, I wonder if you would care to provide your definition of "audible distortion."
   
Hmmm.  Speaking of trying to stay objective.  If we use your definition of neutral as being the absence of audible distortion, how can the determination that a device is "neutral" be objective if our hearing is being used to make that determination?  If two devices sound different, how is the determination made as to which one is the neutral one?  Does the use of neutral even apply to this discussion if the determination of "neutral" is subjective by the ear of the listener?
   
Which gets us back to the points I made in previous posts.  I personally found fine music textures to be mostly missing, and voices to not be as natural sounding as they are on my other DACs.  With the ODAC, bass notes weren't as resolved, plucked guitar strings weren't as sharp, voices had more sibilance, brushed cymbals were less clear....  Overall though, it is a nice little DAC - pretty happy with what it does.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





adydula said:


> If you think USB power is at fault and introducing distortion then fix your PC, or get a powered hub.
> 
> or buy a BIG battery...
> 
> ...


 
  Good to hear that changing USB power wouldn't have any significant effect on what I am hearing - thank you.  I am not having any of the other issues that the instructions say would call for the use of a powered hub.  
   
  I am continually amazed at what designers are doing with limited power these days (ODAC, Hummingbird).  I just have to wonder if some of what I am hearing with the ODAC is caused by compromises the designer has made due to the limited power budget - that is all.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Would the bifrost be a large upgrade over the odac with lyr amp he500 phones


 
  I wonder if you would more likely get a response if you post this in the Schiit DACs thread.
   
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/545842/schiit-dacs-bifrost-and-gungnir-down-one-to-go-the-information-and-anticipation-thread


----------



## livewire

FWIW - I recently connected a powered USB hub to my ODAC out of necessity.
   
  Originally the ODAC was powered by my desktop PC's USB port, no noise was noted at all.
  That changed for the worse when I upgraded my keyboard and mouse to a wireless USB driven setup.
  The USB on my PC was now maxxed out at six connections.
   
  I did not need a o-scope to tell me that the signal was now degraded.
  Not sure if this was due to an under-voltage condition or if noise was being injected into the line
  by the new USB devices. While listening to music the static noise would build slowly until it was unbearable.
  Unplugging the USB source to the ODAC, then re-plugging it 
  made the noise go away for awhile, but it always returned.
   
  My laptop had similar problems driving any USB DAC. 
  In this case the USB output was just noisy...period!
  Clicks and pops with a static background that came and went sporadically
  did not make for an enjoyable listening experience.
   
  Enter the Targus seven port powered USB hub that I picked up at Amazon.
  I plugged the ODAC into one of it's powered ports and Viola! no more problems - at all.
  Both the laptop and the desktop PC drive the ODAC flawlessly.
   
  Admittedly I had some expectation bias that maybe the Targus would drive the ODAC
  better than the PC did originally, before the keyboard replacement.
  That was not the case, the ODAC sounded perfect back then and no better now.
   
  Moral of the story: Your USB port needs to deliver the full 5 volts at the rated current
  and must provide a clean signal. If these conditions cannot be met, buy a powered USB hub.


----------



## adydula

No I dont think its because of any compromise of a "limited power budget" whatever that means.....the specs speak for themselves....
   
  All this talk about missing detail or bass notes not being as full etc is just a line of crap.
   
  Most likely something in your source to transducer chain is not set optimally.
   
  The bits are there or are not. The output signal is clean or its not.
   
  Do a AB comparison with a O'scope or a A/B program like is readily available on the AC signal output.
   
  I can understand having issues with USB power, mostly due to a non USB Spec implementation, bad component, too many things plugged into a USB hub etc...
   
  I have 7 pcs, of all kinds, Lenovo, ACER, HP, ASUS, Dell, none exhibit any issues with using USB power with the ODAC.
   
  I can go out of my way and introduce 'unwanted' noise etc and hear the results, but with a properly designed, not overloaded USB supply...good shielded cables, not wraped around your microwave (LOL) ...most people will be just fine.
   
  Note: The USB 1.x and 2.0 specifications provide a 5 V supply on a single wire to power connected USB devices. The specification provides for no more than 5.25 V and no less than 4.75 V (5 V±5%) between the positive and negative bus power lines. For USB 3.0, the voltage supplied by low-powered hub ports is 4.45–5.25 V
   
  That said I did this sometime ago:
   
  I cut apart a few cables to insert a milli-ammeter to actually measure the current draw of the ODAC.
   
  The ODAC draws 50.5 milliamps of current connected, doesnt matter if its connected to a amp or not. I tested this as well.

 The voltage was 5.04 vdc, and after the ODAC was connected the voltage was 5.04 vdc.

 The USB power supply in this old tired gateway desktop was not phased in the least with this minimal load.

 The USB 2.0 spec is 100ma per unit up to 5 units for 500ma total.

 The ODAC is not even close to this as a load.
   
  Over and out...


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





adydula said:


> No I dont think its because of any compromise of a "limited power budget" whatever that means.....the specs speak for themselves....
> 
> All this talk about missing detail or bass notes not being as full etc is just a line of crap.


 
   
  Lorriman posted a great series of articles, maybe in this thread, about how various types of distortion are perceived by listeners (as lacking in bass, "soundstage", etc.) They'd be a good introduction to the effects of non-neutral DAC's and/or amps. His methods and conclusions, unfortunately, are heretical to people who absolutely must hear a difference between different makes or models of audio equipment even when there are none.
   
  In any case, how good it sounds is up to the listener's discretion regardless of whether he or she is unwilling or unable to understand the cause.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





adydula said:


> No I dont think its because of any compromise of a "limited power budget" whatever that means.....the specs speak for themselves....
> 
> All this talk about missing detail or bass notes not being as full etc is just a line of crap.
> 
> Most likely something in your source to transducer chain is not set optimally.


 
  Thanks for all the detail, unnecessary though, as I am quite familiar with the USB specification and how to optimize a computer for USB playback.  One of my systems is a dedicated Mac Mini with the DAC connected to a dedicated high speed USB bus.   The other is a MB Pro with the only USB peripheral being the DAC.  As the only system changes were switching out the DACs for comparison, I can only conclude that the differences I am hearing between the ODAC and my other DACs are differences in the DACs themselves.
   
  In my opinion, it is a nice little DAC at it's price point.  I just didn't find it to be deserving of its place on a pedestal where so many of it's vocal proponents seem to want to place it.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





hamilcarbarca said:


> Lorriman posted a great series of articles, maybe in this thread, about how various types of distortion are perceived by listeners (as lacking in bass, "soundstage", etc.) They'd be a good introduction to the effects of non-neutral DAC's and/or amps. His methods and conclusions, unfortunately, are heretical to people who absolutely must hear a difference between different makes or models of audio equipment even when there are none.
> 
> In any case, how good it sounds is up to the listener's discretion regardless of whether he or she is unwilling or unable to understand the cause.


 
   
   
  Thanks for the lead on the articles - probably not going to read 110 pages of this thread on the chance they might be there.  I am not unfamiliar with distortion signatures - there are good examples of typical audio distortions available for listening if one knows where to find them.
   
  I started reading your second paragraph and almost thought you were going to leave it at "how good it sounds is up to the listener's discretion", but then you went and again implied the lame Sound Science argument of, to paraphrase, "If it doesn't sound like the ODAC, your DAC must be distorting the signal."  Now I understand why the ODAC is the butt of so many jokes here on Head-Fi.  It is kind of sad, as I actually found it to be a nice little DAC.  Too bad a lot of folks don't give it it's due because of all the BS that vocal proponents use trying to raise it on a pedestal. 
   
  I believe the ODAC performs well at it's price point.  I didn't find it to be the ultimate DAC that it's some on this forum make it out to be.  Since we are all here because we love music, maybe consider more listening to music and less proselytizing?  You might  actually get more converts that way.
   
  Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> What the heck are you talking about?
> religious cult? A little bit over dramatic aren't we?
> What's just as bad are those that think all neutral devices must sound exactly the same if they measure flat.
> Then they claim they know exactly what something sounds like without actually having tried it.
> ...


 
  tdockweiler - well stated!
   
  I think I am going to go enjoy my music now.  I have a new DAC to listen to....


----------



## hamburgerladdy

> I think I am going to go enjoy my music now.  I have a new DAC to listen to....


----------



## adydula

Some folks listen to their equipment others listen to the music.....
   
  Alex


----------



## HaVoC-28

My gone ODAC souded the same as my also gones NFB-2/NFB-17.2 and my current FSA Sptifire HD .
   
  I am deaf or any of this DACs is beyond the threshold of audibility , at least i am no more subject to evil placebo (was many times tricked by it) and carreful level matching saved me from the upgrade spiral . I would say that peraphs the A-GD could have some effect on sound with their roll off selectable effect, but this i am not even sure .
   
  But the best bang of this 4 is the ODAC by large margin swapped to Sptifire only due to needs of multiple inputs , and drop out with ODAC when i power off my stéreo amp (peraphs electricity as to be redone , but ...) well now i am done with DACs


----------



## adydula

HaVoc-28...
   
  You have hit the nail on the head....ditto....
   
  back to the music!
   
  Alex


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


>


 
  What DAC? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _Objectively _speaking, does it sound (much) better than the ODAC?


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> What DAC?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was quoting (not endorsing) "Hi Rez"...however...
   
  The EMM Labs DAC2X should be way better.
   
  At only $15.5K an online expert wrote:
   
"This DAC brought me so close to the music and evoked such emotion when the music called for it that I seriously wanted to delay writing this review indefinitely."


----------



## HamilcarBarca

Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's what happens when you listen to the sound of money flowing through your equipment. It's better to listen to movies, music, and other audio instead. In my opinion, anyway.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

I plan to swith to Windows 8 soon.
  Will the ODAC work fine on Windows 8?


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *JakeJack_2008* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I plan to swith to Windows 8 soon.
> Will the ODAC work fine on Windows 8?


 
   
  Yes.  I've been using Windows 8 with my ODAC for quite some time.  No problems whatsoever.


----------



## Poimandres

I had no issues with windows 8 either. 

Are you still enjoying the pcstep flysweep? Have you ever listened to pico amp/dac?


----------



## schmalgausen

Hi all,
   
  How do you think if it is possible to use both ODAC output at the same time connected to two different amplifiers?


----------



## Hi Rez

No.  From the JDS Labs website:  "Note: The ODAC supports only 1 output; do not use 3.5mm and RCA jacks simultaneously."


----------



## beaver316

I have the RCA outputs hooked up to my amp which connects to my headphones. At the same time I have the 3.5mm out connected to a pair of active speakers. If I play some music, I can hear it on both the headphones and speakers simultaneously. So it appears to work.


----------



## adydula

It will "work" but it will not work correctly...don't do it!!!
   
  Alex


----------



## beaver316

Quote: 





adydula said:


> It will "work" but it will not work correctly...don't do it!!!
> 
> Alex


 
   
  I do it very rarely, but I don't really see how it doesn't work "correctly".


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





beaver316 said:


> I have the RCA outputs hooked up to my amp which connects to my headphones. At the same time I have the 3.5mm out connected to a pair of active speakers. If I play some music, I can hear it on both the headphones and speakers simultaneously. So it appears to work.


 
   
  Why does a _headphone amp _have two RCA inputs? For balanced _headphones _with left and right channels carried via two separate cables?


----------



## adydula

From JDSLabs site for the ODAC with RCA outputs:
   
*RCA Output* - RCA output jacks at rear, 3.5mm output and USB jack at front. Black endplates. 95mm case length. Note: *The ODAC supports only 1 output; do not use 3.5mm and RCA jacks simultaneously.*
   
  I have tested this on a few downstream amps and have experienced distortion etc....depending on the amp being driven and its 'electrical' characteristics....
   
  In one case I had the RCA analog output connected to a Onkyo receiver to drive a set of large speakers..so i could use the dac and pc flac source etc....this works well.
   
  Then I connected the mini-jack analog to the O2 while the RCA analog was still cabled to the receiver even though it was powered off.
   
  The sound in the headphones was distinctly less than "stellar' like it normally is.
   
  When I realized this i removed the RCA cables and instantly back to great sound, no distortion etc..
   
  When you add mulitple complex loads to things designed to handle single loads interesting things can happen.
   
  This is one reason I have several 02 amps and ODACS.
   
  Alex


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> *Why does a headphone amp have two RCA inputs?* For balanced _headphones _with left and right channels carried via two separate cables?


 
   
  For connecting two different sources?


----------



## veldt

Love my ODAC-O2 from Epiphany Acoustics, but the input jack of my AC-adaptor bends very easily. It consists of two parts, the connector itself, and the adaptor with the cable, which is connected to the connector by way of two very soft metal prongs. They have already been bent two times by almost no handling at all. Since my ODAC-O2 is not strictly stationary, I transport it from time to time, however the plug bends by almost nothing at all. I think it will break sooner or later. It would be more robust if the cable and adaptor would just be one part. What would a replacement cost in case of a broken plug or by way of precaution? (How would you rate the robustness of the ODAC-O2 itself? Can things break in it by it slipping to the ground (about 70 cm)? So far, it has happened only once, because the cable got caught, although I was still very near to it.)


----------



## Rem0o

Got a little review up on headgear if anyone is curious.

http://www.head-fi.org/products/jds-labs-odac/reviews/9158


----------



## schmalgausen

I temporary use 12VAC adapter, but want to order 14..20VAC (as recommended). Which rate should be better? 14, 16, 18, 20 VAC are available on ebay.


----------



## adydula

The WAU20-200 doesn't result in any higher output into high impedance headphones (because the O2 uses a regulated power supply internally) and it has less current for low impedance loads.
   
*The WAU16-400 is the best transformer for any headphone.*

 The 18 and 20 volt transformers do put more of a thermal "strain" on the O2 as the regulators run hotter.
   
  A.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The WAU20-200 doesn't result in any higher output into high impedance headphones (because the O2 uses a regulated power supply internally) and it has less current for low impedance loads.
> 
> *The WAU16-400 is the best transformer for any headphone.*
> 
> ...


 
  So, is it better than the Triad AC adapter that I bought from JDS Labs along with my O2 and DAC separates?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> So, is it better than the Triad AC adapter that I bought from JDS Labs along with my O2 and DAC separates?


 
   
  The Triad they carry is the WAU12-200, so yes. The first number (12) is the AC voltage, and the second (200) is the max current in mA.
   
  If you're drawing a lot of power from the amp, especially if your home wall voltage is a little low, the voltage into the O2 power supply might dip low enough in parts of the cycle that some significantly more noise could get through the regulators. However, the downstream electronics have very high power supply noise rejection ratios anyway, and to draw that kind of power you'd need to be driving some inefficient low-impedance headphones to loud volumes (like some of the planar magnetics). Maxing out the amp into say 600 ohms Beyers doesn't even draw much power, for example. Also, to draw that much power, you'd need to be listening at high enough volume that a little noise getting through is probably masked by the signal volume itself.
   
  More or less, the other options are definitely better in some legitimate sense, but it's probably not relevant for most people and most headphones, and it shouldn't make much of a difference anyway. The WAU12-200 is just the default because somebody (somebodies) thought it was a good idea to skimp and save like $5. To be honest, I don't think I disagree, though this kind of thing is kind of anathema to the hi-fi crowd.


----------



## adydula

*AC Wall Transformer* – There has been some confusion over the wall transformer and it’s a critical component. Most wall transformers put out DC but _the O2’s power supply requires at least 13.5 volts *AC*_. The ideal transformer would be rated at 14 - 16 VAC and 400 mA or higher. In North America the Triad WAU12-200 from Mouser is rated at 12 volts but is really about 13.5 VAC with no load, and on normal 120 volt line voltage works fine for anything but full power sine wave testing or driving rare low impedance power hungry cans. _If your line voltage is below 117 VAC  or 235 VAC, and/or you plan to drive difficult low impedance headpones (i.e. HiFiMan planars), I would suggest a 14+ VAC transformer at 400+ mA._ The best Mouser transformers are the WAU16-400, 412-218054 or WAU16-1000 CUI. But those are more expensive than the WAU12-200. The WAU20-200 also works for higher impedance headphones. At least some European 230 volt input 12 VAC output transformers only measure around 11.5 to 12 volts on normal line voltage and won’t work (especially if designed for halogen lights). You can also change the power jack to a 5.5mm x 2.5mm version if needed to match the plug of different wall transformers.
   
  A.


----------



## schmalgausen

I have just powered my O2 with huge 16VAC amplifier transformer instead of 12VAC 400 mA wall one and can't hear any diferrence on 8, 16, 100, 240 Ohm cans. Maybe it can be measured with the equipment, but not with my ears.


----------



## adydula

I have all the noted ac to ac adapters as well and have listened to a wide variety of headphones and can not tell any real difference in any of them.
   
  I also have tested with batteries vs AC to AC and ditto..
   
  A.


----------



## schmalgausen

Is it possible to use US Robotocs HA-2080 adapter? It is 20VAC declared but I'm afraid that it can be higher.


----------



## adydula

if the ac adapter is the correct size to fit the O2 then I dont see why it wouldnt work.
  Remember Nwavguy states that a 20vac pwr supply will stress  the voltage regulators and run hotter.....
   
  But I dont think this really would matter in the real world....most of us dont have these things on 24/7.
   
  Let us know..
   
  A.


----------



## CJG888

Sorry if this question has been asked elsewhere, but will an iPad Mini be able to drive the ODAC directly via CCK, or will a powered hub be necessary? I remember reading that a Galaxy Note 2 can power it via USB OTG, as it apparently needs very little power.


----------



## jseaber

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> Sorry if this question has been asked elsewhere, but will an iPad Mini be able to drive the ODAC directly via CCK, or will a powered hub be necessary? I remember reading that a Galaxy Note 2 can power it via USB OTG, as it apparently needs very little power.


 
   
  Depends on the CCK. Apple's official CCK will not power ODAC, so a hub is necessary. There are a few generic CCK's on eBay that act as a hub, which tricks the iPad into powering an external DAC (iPad reads the maximum current tag via software; actual current draw is not measured).


----------



## orangecr

Do you guys think the ODAC will be a significant upgrade over a Fiio E07k (just the DAC section)?. My set up is Laptop -> Fiio e07k -> Fiio L7 (LOD) -> JDS Labs O2 amp -> Headphones.

 I was also looking at this DAC: *HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 Asynchronous USB DAC, *but I haven't find much in the forums.
   
  I like the way it sounds, but I can't help wondering if I am missing something.


----------



## firefly89

how do you think this compares to the audioengine d1?
   
  similar price as a DAC/amp, looks better, single unit- tested it against the fiio e17, cleaner output for sure, much more clarity- think the odac is a step up again?


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





orangecr said:


> Do you guys think the ODAC will be a significant upgrade over a Fiio E07k (just the DAC section)?. My set up is Laptop -> Fiio e07k -> Fiio L7 (LOD) -> JDS Labs O2 amp -> Headphones.
> 
> I was also looking at this DAC: *HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 Asynchronous USB DAC, *but I haven't find much in the forums.
> 
> I like the way it sounds, but I can't help wondering if I am missing something.


 
  I don't think it will be a significant upgrade. I doubt that you will hear any real difference, but I use the ODAC for peace of mind. That hifimeDIY yada yada sounds like complete BS just by the name..
  Quote: 





firefly89 said:


> how do you think this compares to the audioengine d1?
> 
> similar price as a DAC/amp, looks better, single unit- tested it against the fiio e17, cleaner output for sure, much more clarity- think the odac is a step up again?


 
  I personally couldn't hear much of any difference between the e17 and odac+o2. Sooo, I dunno, take that how you will.


----------



## tuna47

Has anyone compared odac to bifrost


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *tuna47* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Has anyone compared odac to bifrost


 
   
YES.


----------



## tuna47

How do they compare


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *tuna47* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How do they compare


----------



## jasonb

Just won a JDS Labs ODAC on ebay for $115. New, but open box. Seem like a decent deal?


----------



## adydula

Good deal for a great DAC.
   
  I have several now in different systems, rooms etc...they work wonderfully.
   
  I bought 2 and bought boxes and RCA connectors etc. The assembled dacs were I think $99 plus shipping , then the cases, connectors etc....
   
  For $115 that not to bad at all..
   
  Good luck with it!
   
  Alex


----------



## Battou62

Quote: 





flysweep said:


>


 
  " as the UB seems like a more refined, articulate, & detailed version of the ODAC"
   
This is why I am finding it harder and harder to some back to this website.


----------



## FlySweep

> Originally Posted by *Battou62* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> " as the UB seems like a more refined, articulate, & detailed version of the ODAC"
> 
> This is why I am finding it harder and harder to some back to this website.


 
   
  LOL.. apparently, Jude's got a gun to your head, forcing you to visit, eh?
   
  ..and yeah, the UB sounds/feels/massages/telepathicallytransmits/whatever than better than the ODAC.  I love the ODAC, btw.. I'm just not one of the robot minions who think it's the end all be all.  Sorry, no blind test done here.. I've been around these parts & heard enough gear to be aware of my biases.  I'm a believer in both subjective and objective analysis.. I think there's much to be gain from both.  If that bothers you:


----------



## jasonb

Just hooked up the ODAC, impressions soon....
   
  Edit 1: So far, very impressive! Definitely a good sized step up from the Fiio E17's DAC section. Very detailed, but still very musical. It didn't transform the sound into a bright digital sounding mess like a few people claim. It isn't making my Q701 unlistenable like I've heard some claim either. I'm not going to give a huge detailed review yet, but so far I'm very happy with the difference for a mere $115. I will say that it is definitely a step up from the E17 in every way. Tighter bass, bigger soundstage, better separation, definitely better treble detail.  
   
  Edit 2: I am currently listening to Opeth's "The roundhouse Tapes", and I just heard fans cheering in the background during Blackwater Park in a section of the song that I most definitely never noticed before. It was very faint and distant, but it was there. It made me imagine that I was there at the show for a minute. Very nice!


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Just hooked up the ODAC, impressions soon....
> 
> Edit 1: So far, very impressive! Definitely a good sized step up from the Fiio E17's DAC section. Very detailed, but still very musical. It didn't transform the sound into a bright digital sounding mess like a few people claim. It isn't making my Q701 unlistenable like I've heard some claim either. I'm not going to give a huge detailed review yet, but so far I'm very happy with the difference for a mere $115. I will say that it is definitely a step up from the E17 in every way. Tighter bass, bigger soundstage, better separation, definitely better treble detail.
> 
> Edit 2: I am currently listening to Opeth's "The roundhouse Tapes", and I just heard fans cheering in the background during Blackwater Park in a section of the song that I most definitely never noticed before. It was very faint and distant, but it was there. It made me imagine that I was there at the show for a minute. Very nice!


 
  I am surprised you find it so different from the E17. Do you have this E17 on hand to compare, or are you comparing from memory?
   
  I personally could not hear any difference between an e17 and an o2+odac stack when comparing them back and forth with critical listening. Not saying there can't be a difference, just suggesting giving the e17 another shot and making sure you actually hear a consistent difference.


----------



## jasonb

I do still have the E17. After a few days of getting used to the ODAC, I plan on switching back to the E17 to try and confirm my findings.  
  Quote: 





chrislangley4253 said:


> I am surprised you find it so different from the E17. Do you have this E17 on hand to compare, or are you comparing from memory?
> 
> I personally could not hear any difference between an e17 and an o2+odac stack when comparing them back and forth with critical listening. Not saying there can't be a difference, just suggesting giving the e17 another shot and making sure you actually hear a consistent difference.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I do still have the E17. After a few days of getting used to the ODAC, I plan on switching back to the E17 to try and confirm my findings.


 
  Then I look forward to your future impressions!


----------



## jasonb

The detail, speed, and resolution is quite astounding. Day two and I'm even more impressed. 
   
  Edit:
This current setup I'm using is really something. The ODAC feeding the Pioneer SX-750 powering an AKG Q701 is really sounding great. It's truly in a different league than what I've used before. Both separates easily blow the E17 out of the water. To top it all off, the whole setup was pretty inexpensive. $40 for the SX-750, $115 for the ODAC, and $240 for the Q701. For just under 400 bucks it's truly incredible.

The detail, resolution, and speed are unreal. The bass with the bass knob at +2 is really surprising, considering how most people view the Q701' bass. I'd say at this point it's just slightly north of neutral along with plenty of lower end extension, and along with the great texture they are known for. If anything, the ODAC seems to have smoothed out the Q701's sometimes edgy treble, while still being just a tad bright and very revealing. The mids are still right where they should be and also very detailed.

I am very very happy with this current setup. But of course, we will see how long it takes before I get the desire to upgrade again.


----------



## jasonb

I haven't done an A/B comparison yet between the ODAC and the E17, but I can simply say without a doubt that the ODAC is the much better DAC.
   
  It is better in every way, but most obvious is the top end detail and resolution. On the top end it's like comparing a 128kbps MP3 against a 320kbps MP3 or FLAC. On the E17 the top end on the Q701 never really impressed me all that much in regards to top end extension and sparkle. On the E17 it all seemed kind of mushed together up top. Cymbals on rock and metal recording kind of seemed like a compressed blur, but with the ODAC the top end is very extended and crystal clear. I never really realized this though until hearing the ODAC. It wasn't like I knew something was missing on the E17, but now that I have heard better it is a pretty obvious change.
   
  My totally custom, self built car stereo always seemed pretty revealing to me, I always thought there was plenty of top end detail and extension, but now in comparison it sounds veiled. The tweeters in my car are mounted on axis to the drivers headrest, with an active crossover with 100 watts rms per channel by the way.
   
  Again, the sound of the ODAC is better in every way, but the area I just described is the most obvious difference in my opinion. There is no going back from here. I will do a real A/B one day before I sell the E17 though.


----------



## adydula

I have other dacs that cost a lot more.....and i prefer the ODAC to them all.....its taken awhile but it works so well.
   
  oh, and the price is a super deal...
   
  A.


----------



## chrislangley4253

Careful you don't let all this expectation bias alter the sound of the E17. If you go into it expecting to hear mushy highs... You probably will


----------



## vbxt

It looks like this thread has run it's course, but since I have taken the time to read the entire thing, I'll post my impressions of the ODAC.
  
 I originally found this forum while searching for a DAC, and I've been coming back ever since to read the board.  First, I'll start with a little background.  I've been actively listening to music for more than 20 years now.  I say actively listening because, prior to that, I just took it for what it was and was not really concerned with the quality of the reproduction.  During college, I worked in a high-end (read, expensive) boutique audio store.  It was there that I came to know all the big names in the high-end game.  I've been lucky enough to spend time with speakers and amplifiers selling in for the big bucks.  It was also there that I first began to notice that no matter what the manufacturer's representative that came to the store to train us said, I just couldn't hear all the magical things that they were talking about.
  
 Their latest and greatest high-dollar interconnects, preamps, and amplifiers pretty much sounded the same to me.  I just chalked it up to inexperience.
  
 It was only later when I became the defacto in-store installer that I realized that maybe I wasn't crazy after all.  When new gear would come in everyone would wait around impatiently for me to get it set up.  Then they would sit around an expound on the most wonderful sound that they had ever heard.  Oftentimes I would take this opportunity to pull little pranks on them.  I would secretly connect a Marantz receiver in place of the big and bad Bryston amp.  Then I would connect it with the cheapest interconnects that I had at home.  The we ran the wiring in some of the setups even allowed me to substitute 16 gauge lamp cord for the Kimber speaker wire.  The owner would listen to his favorite setup this way for a least an hour a day, and he never noticed when I would make the substitutions.
  
 So, what does this have to do with the ODAC? First let me say that while I do enjoy listening to headphones, I do most of my listening on my two channel setup with KEF 105/3 speakers. They are often described in similar terms as the ODAC.  Clinical, analytical, ect.  Which to me means transparent.  I also have a fondness for pro-sound equipment.  Especially the fanless amps from the 80's and 90's like the Yamaha P2200.  I like them because the manufactures give pages upon pages of technical specs and measurements taken at all levels of output and under all loads.  They don't just simply list the the frequency response and distortions specs at a single, undisclosed output.  I like the objectivity.
  
 That objectivity is exactly what I like about the ODAC.  It is a DAC after all.  A digital to analog converter.  No more, no less.  It is not a "DAC-Q".  A "digital to analog equalizer" like so many others try to be.  If I want EQ, I will simple fire up the EQ. Preferably a parametric one.
  
 I am unable to comment on the "sound" or the "soundstage" of the ODAC simply because it does not produce those things.  It just converts the digital signal from my computer so that my amps can power my speakers.
  
 I do have more to add, but my time is limited.  I'll be back in a few days.


----------



## tdockweiler

jasonb said:


> I haven't done an A/B comparison yet between the ODAC and the E17, but I can simply say without a doubt that the ODAC is the much better DAC.
> 
> It is better in every way, but most obvious is the top end detail and resolution. On the top end it's like comparing a 128kbps MP3 against a 320kbps MP3 or FLAC. On the E17 the top end on the Q701 never really impressed me all that much in regards to top end extension and sparkle. On the E17 it all seemed kind of mushed together up top. Cymbals on rock and metal recording kind of seemed like a compressed blur, but with the ODAC the top end is very extended and crystal clear. I never really realized this though until hearing the ODAC. It wasn't like I knew something was missing on the E17, but now that I have heard better it is a pretty obvious change.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree too but E17 still isn't bad for the price (and options like Optical/Coax input). I'm not sure if you knew this but it does have some slight treble roll off when bypassing the amp. I don't know if it's audible.
 I've found the E17 to be warmer sounding than the ODAC and Modi but the soundstage is more closed in. Fuller low mids for sure, but that's just some nice coloration.
  
 ODAC/Modi IMO are about equal to my ears. My ears couldn't hear much difference. ODAC did sound like perhaps 1% more clearer but that could have been my imagination. There were a few other differences but people have always told me it's impossible.
  
 Too bad I don't like the O2 as much as the ODAC.


----------



## jasonb

The E17 is still a great value, being that it is a DAC with 3 different input methods and an amp with lots of options like EQ on top of that. 
  
 I was aware that when using it as a DAC the top end is very slightly rolled off. 
  
 A few weeks later and I am still loving my ODAC. I got the chance to try it with my speaker setup the other day and it impressed me in that situation as well. I ended up selling the E17 with a whole bunch of extras to my dad for $80. He said it sounds better than the soundcard in his laptop. He is happy to have it, and I am happy to have sold it so easily and I didn't make out to bad on the deal.
  
 Quote:


tdockweiler said:


> I agree too but E17 still isn't bad for the price (and options like Optical/Coax input). I'm not sure if you knew this but it does have some slight treble roll off when bypassing the amp. I don't know if it's audible.
> I've found the E17 to be warmer sounding than the ODAC and Modi but the soundstage is more closed in. Fuller low mids for sure, but that's just some nice coloration.
> 
> ODAC/Modi IMO are about equal to my ears. My ears couldn't hear much difference. ODAC did sound like perhaps 1% more clearer but that could have been my imagination. There were a few other differences but people have always told me it's impossible.
> ...


----------



## digiman

vbxt said:


> That objectivity is exactly what I like about the ODAC.  It is a DAC after all.  A digital to analog converter.  No more, no less.  It is not a "DAC-Q".  A "digital to analog equalizer" like so many others try to be.  If I want EQ, I will simple fire up the EQ.


 
  
 Have to agree with this. Upgraded to the ODAC (e-dac) from the fiio e10. Huge difference in terms of fidelity and clarity. Honestly cant 'hear' the dac, just the sound of the amp and the speakers/headphones.
  
 On the questions of brightness. I would say it seems brighter compared to the fiio but it is actually just the missing higher frequencies that the fiio couldn't reach. The ODAC seems very balanced and neutral. I would not say cold and clinical, as it is pretty much just not there.
  
 Excellent performance, and even more so because of the price.
  
 System listening on: Foobar (Flac 24/44) - ODAC - Audiolab 8000Q/8000PX (originals)  - EB Acoustics EB1(speakers) / Audio Technica ESW9A


----------



## Ashade

Agree with everything said above. The ODAC is superior to the Fiio´s. Higher range of frequencies and higher clarity and detail. I wouldn´t say is brighter, I would rather say Fiio is usually slighlty darker. Enjoying this DAC so much.


----------



## dclaz

I'm almost sold on this DAC, especially after reading comments like vbxt's above. Is there any reason why this might not be a great DAC for me? It will be my first decent piece of hardware (coming from PC onboard audio) and will be paired with either Swan M200MKIII or T200B speakers.
  
 If I have speakers plugged in to the rear RCA ports, can I use the front line-out with headphones? (Sennheiser momentum's)


----------



## i019791

dclaz said:


> I'm almost sold on this DAC, especially after reading comments like vbxt's above. Is there any reason why this might not be a great DAC for me? It will be my first decent piece of hardware (coming from PC onboard audio) and will be paired with either Swan M200MKIII or T200B speakers.
> 
> If I have speakers plugged in to the rear RCA ports, can I use the front line-out with headphones? (Sennheiser momentum's)


 
 An issue with the odac is that it has no spdif inputs, so it can never improve through using a good usb to spdif converter, making it vulnerable to the fast evolving usb reciever chip technology.
 It is likely that in two years time many cheap dacs will outperform the odac because they would simply use a more capable usb chip.


----------



## dclaz

i019791 said:


> An issue with the odac is that it has no spdif inputs, so it can never improve through using a good usb to spdif converter, making it vulnerable to the fast evolving usb reciever chip technology.
> It is likely that in two years time many cheap dacs will outperform the odac because they would simply use a more capable usb chip.


 
  
 I thought there was already a preference for USB over spdif? In any case, if the USB chips were to improve...  more expensive USB based DAC's would be similarly outperformed no?


----------



## i019791

dclaz said:


> I thought there was already a preference for USB over spdif? In any case, if the USB chips were to improve...  more expensive USB based DAC's would be similarly outperformed no?


 
  
 I don't think there was ever a preference for usb over spdif with odac's usb chip.
 More expensive usb dacs can be similarly outperformed, but (nearly) all the more expensive dacs come with spdif inputs also - so they can take in the future advantage of usb to spdif converters.


----------



## Ashade

I don't understand your justification to wait for spdif...

Nowadays you have the capability to transmit digital to digital without jitter in either USB and SPDIF. Digital is digital, no loss of quality here. The implementation of the DAC itself is the one responsible of transforming the signal.

The only reason you might argue to wait for SPDIF is saying that you prefer 192 vs 96kHz or 24bits vs 20 or 24 bits? I bet you cannot tell the difference.

You can pre-DPS by software exactly the same way in both as well.

Don't see the reason for waiting because of everything exposed above but further more, you can find excuses to wait for a better technology in the future in every field of technology, i.e. cars, and you can keep waiting your whole life for the perfect technology.

Maybe I'm missing something here?


----------



## i019791

ashade said:


> I don't understand your justification to wait for spdif...
> 
> Nowadays you have the capability to transmit digital to digital without jitter in either USB and SPDIF. Digital is digital, no loss of quality here. The implementation of the DAC itself is the one responsible of transforming the signal.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are addressing me, I think I never wrote or implied "wait for spdif". Just that spdif *option *is good to have for future needs.


----------



## Ashade

If you are going to be using SPDIF a lot it might be useful. SPDIF has been there since the Minidisc, and with the exception of very rare applications you have always the alternative of the USB, that is exactly the same sound wise. I don't think this is going to change in the short term. It's a nice feature to have but I wouldn't pay extra for it.

If you really need SPDIF, go for it, if not, save you some bucks. And I'm not saying only get the ODAC, you have really good DACs for under 50 bucks. If at some point you need that feature, sell your equipment and get something new. The loss of money will be negligible, specially if you bought used in the first place.

One example is the E17. Don't get me wrong, it's a really good device but the SPDIF option is not at the level of the DAC itself. Nice to have, yes, but you can save yourself 50 bucks and go with the E07K unless you really need the extra power of amp the part.

Just my humble opinion.


----------



## kcazbarach

Just recieved the ODAC approximately 1.5 hours ago.
  
  
 I plugged it in and something was off. It did have a "cold feel" and the soundstage was a bit hollow/less. it was so weird to me.
  
 turns out one of my usb ports is garbage (not surprised after going through this thread). but I got it working now. and HOpe to use this as a main dac until i upgrade to bitfrost (not for a while lol). enjoying it so far.
  
  
 do i turn foobar onto 24 bit if I'm using wasapi too?
  
 I assume yes?
  
  
 thanks for any help.


----------



## tdockweiler

kcazbarach said:


> Just recieved the ODAC approximately 1.5 hours ago.
> 
> 
> I plugged it in and something was off. It did have a "cold feel" and the soundstage was a bit hollow/less. it was so weird to me.
> ...


 
  
 I had the same problem and I had to switch to a powered USB hub. I added a PCI USB card and can't tell a difference between it and the hub.
  
 No way i'd ever use a USB port on a laptop. It seems most of them are not very good. On one port I couldn't even use a USB DVD burner without it giving me all sorts of errors. It was even the type that's powered with an AC adapter.
  
 Going to be switching to SPDIF only soon. Just for testing and probably no audible difference. What's annoying is that i've read that some optical outputs on cheap soundcards still reencode/convert the audio without telling you. How lame.
  
 Kind of weirded out how there is not much difference at all between my ODAC, Modi and Micro DAC. I'd put them all on the same level. Maybe if I had an HD-800 or some $200000 amp I could tell the difference.


----------



## kcazbarach

tdockweiler said:


> I had the same problem and I had to switch to a powered USB hub. I added a PCI USB card and can't tell a difference between it and the hub.
> 
> No way i'd ever use a USB port on a laptop. It seems most of them are not very good. On one port I couldn't even use a USB DVD burner without it giving me all sorts of errors. It was even the type that's powered with an AC adapter.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea, I only have a laptop atm so SPDIF (no optical port) isn't an option (at least I don't believe it is, I'm really low on knowledge on it other than a few main points).
 but I am debating buying a powered usb hub just to see if it'd change things. I'm already using the he-400 so the treble is somewhat sparkly to begin with...... (hard to tell).


----------



## glunteer

Hey Guys !
 l'm having problems with my ODAC, it makes noise usb PC but says you can not install the driver ...

 I bought here, he came up with the problem, but when I went to fix it does not recognize the PC but makes the sound of USB (http://www.head-fi.org/t/670512/odac-black-australia-needs-soldering)

  
 can anyone tell me what can be?
  


Spoiler: Spoiler! Pics of ODAC


----------



## Sonic Atrocity

Jeez, that's too bad man. I don't know how to fix that stuff. 
  
 This is kind of why I'm shying away from the ODAC. One person in this thread reported sonic changes with the addition of one ferrite after another (more than one ferrite). Another has mentioned how the ODAC behaves really weirdly when connected to certain power sources, and that it isn't all that easy to identify what sources cause this. Some people have even reported using different adapters and getting different sound from each one. I have read this whole thread, and I gotta say, the ODAC sounds a bit crappy.
  
 EDIT: I really wanted to get this dac when I first heard about it. But now for that kind of neutrality I'm looking at the schiit modi.


----------



## tdockweiler

sonic atrocity said:


> Jeez, that's too bad man. I don't know how to fix that stuff.
> 
> This is kind of why I'm shying away from the ODAC. One person in this thread reported sonic changes with the addition of one ferrite after another (more than one ferrite). Another has mentioned how the ODAC behaves really weirdly when connected to certain power sources, and that it isn't all that easy to identify what sources cause this. Some people have even reported using different adapters and getting different sound from each one. I have read this whole thread, and I gotta say, the *ODAC sounds a bit crappy.*
> 
> EDIT: I really wanted to get this dac when I first heard about it. But now for that kind of neutrality I'm looking at the schiit modi.


 
  
 Well, I think it's that most computer USB ports are crappy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I always used a powered USB hub and that took care of all my problems. Using a USB PCI card would also work if you use a desktop.
  
 The Modi will still have similar issues if you have poor quality USB ports.
  
 I know you'll all hate this, but I can't hear much difference between the ODAC and Modi. Sounds 98% the same to me. And this is the guy who found it "stupid easy" to hear the differences between the ODAC and HRT MSII
  
 ODAC/Modi are both equally good to my ears. There is one thing the Modi did better, but people will yell at me and say it's impossible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



center image depth (Huh? What? How?!)


----------



## glunteer

I think the problem is within the PCB ... because when I press it works

  
  


tdockweiler said:


> Well, I think it's that most computer USB ports are crappy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 tdockweiler, which hub you use?


----------



## tdockweiler

glunteer said:


> I think the problem is within the PCB ... because when I press it works
> 
> 
> 
> tdockweiler, which hub you use?


 
  
 I was using a Belkin 7 port powered hub. Always worked fine for years but I switched to this one when I thought it died:
  
 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2476717
  
 Here in my city there are very few places that actually sell powered USB hubs. I only got that because it was cheap and had to buy a cable at Radioshack.
 It's made by "Gigaware". Probably no audible differences between powered hubs unless they're really bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wasted my money on a $25 PCI USB card, but no audible difference of course.
  
 I don't use a hub for anything but a DAC so not sure if there is any difference between them.


----------



## Sonic Atrocity

I have an ASUS U30JC I5 laptop, and it has all 2.0 USB hubs. Would those be sufficient? Would the sound be better out of a better USB hub/external powered USB hub?


----------



## tdockweiler

sonic atrocity said:


> I have an ASUS U30JC I5 laptop, and it has all 2.0 USB hubs. Would those be sufficient? Would the sound be better out of a better USB hub/external powered USB hub?


 
  
 I would try it first and see how it goes. One thing that gave me a clue that something was wrong is that when I would scroll up and down in Firefox or any browser I'd get random/weird pops and clicks from my headphone. At random I would get screeching from my HRT MSII until I yanked the cable out.
 I noticed on my ODAC it would seem a lot thinner and less smooth straight from my weak USB ports. Probably just random weirdness.
  
 My laptop computer cost me $1200 maybe 5 years ago and it's USB ports were still not good. What's sad is that I have a worthless Ibook G4 with decent USB ports that give me no issues. Asus computers are pretty good so maybe they'll be OK.
  
 Powered USB hubs are cheap so it's worth getting one and comparing the differences. To my ears the ODAC should never cause any fatigue unless it's the music/amp/headphone.


----------



## Sonic Atrocity

Hmm, from what I've read thus far it seems that the modi doesn't have these problems, but that the ODAC does. Skeptical I am!


----------



## adydula

To be fair, I have 2 odacs that I have used for hundreds of hours across several pcs, both commercial and DIY. without any issues at all.
  
 All electronics stuff have issues from time to time.
  
 But there are far many more satisfied users of the ODAC than the few people that have publicly announced their issues with the ODAC.
  
 When things go well most folks dont take the time to post etc its usually only when it doenst do people post mostly asking and trying to understand what is happening.
  
 That said, either of the dacs mentioned will do just fine...
  
 All the best
 Alex


----------



## kharken

I'm planning to buy the ODAC for my PC as well as for on the go use. I am a bit irritated that my PC  does not sound good compared to my smartphone. Would the ODAC solve my problem or am I better off with a USB Soundcard (Xonar U3)? 
  
 By the way, I usually play hiphop and Rnb and a bit of movies in my PC.


----------



## adydula

If your present PC doesn't sound as good as your smartphone then its a good bet it would.
  
 A.


----------



## kharken

but the odac requires an amp no? 
  
 PC>odac>amp>iem
  
 is that the setup? why is there a need of an amp? (sorry it's my first time to use a dac)
  
 then this setup is more expensive than using a usb soundcard like the xonar u3? how do they compare to each other?
  
 (or considering the hifimediy dac)


----------



## adydula

The ODAC doesn't need an amp to do what it does, its a dac...but yes you need to take the output of the ODAC to an amp to drive your headphones.
  
 The O2 Objective amp is an excellent choice.
  
 A.


----------



## matti620

I listed my ODAC for sale a month ago for $99, is there a reason why it wasn't taken already I don't know about?


----------



## Rem0o

No hype anymore. Still a good product, but people don't buy that as much as hype arround a product.


----------



## glunteer

but in the price range of the ODAC he is one of the best, no?


----------



## Rem0o

glunteer said:


> but in the price range of the ODAC he is one of the best, no?


 
 I can't say it's the best, since it's a personal thing and I haven't tested them all. But it's very good in my opinion.


----------



## jasonb

I love mine, but I guess the hype is over. It seems now the hype is the Schiit Modi.


----------



## Sonic Atrocity

matti620 said:


> I listed my ODAC for sale a month ago for $99, is there a reason why it wasn't taken already I don't know about?


 
 Honestly, if I see an ODAC for that price around xmas I will most likely buy it. Not that I am trying to get you to hold it! I'm just saying that I think it's likely that either I or someone else will buy it around the holidays.


----------



## Kirnupiima

I'll join the people who like the ODAC/O2 -combo. Sounds very, very punchy!
  
 O2 is DIY, ODAC was a complete set.


----------



## Kaaf

I've bought the PCB version of the ODAC and installed it with a "starving student" hybrid tube amp.
 So I've "built" my own headphone dac/amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . Connected to a Mele a2000 loaded with ubuntu (see: http://guillaumeplayground.net/)
  
 And  I must say.....I'm convinced. Paried with a Senn hd600 it sounds wonderfull, detailed and not fatiguing
 I can imagine that the odac can sound harsh with a more analytical headphone. But with my senn's it's just right
 Hope I can enjoy this setup for a long time.


----------



## mcandmar

ODAC harsh sounding, have to disagree there as i use my O2/ODAC combo with Senn's and Grados, and if anything it works better with the Grados.  Feed them a bad mp3 file and it will sound unpleasant, but i cant blame either of them for that, they dont sugar coat anything, they just play it as it is.


----------



## adydula

Agree there 100%
  
 A.


----------



## Sonic Atrocity

Despite my previous post, I have decided to go with the o2 and odac. Gonna buy used at some point


----------



## mnarwold

You won't regret it, unless you're into eye candy. Not the prettiest, but great product. I'll post pictures when I finish my new wooden case for the combo


----------



## Sonic Atrocity

Yeah, I can figure something out to hide how ugly the units are. Whatever.


----------



## mcandmar

Calling them ugly is a bit harsh, i rather like my all black brushed aluminum stack


----------



## Maxx134

tdockweiler said:


> ODAC/Modi are both equally good to my ears. There is one thing the Modi did better, but people will yell at me and say it's impossible
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But this can also be turned around and be interpreted as "less stereo separation" on your Modi..!!!.
Wow quite a negative perception on your part of the Modi(!) 
Ha


----------



## davidvanderbilt

I have the ODAC > Bottlehead crack > Hd 600 combo. Would it even be worth the money to upgrade to something like the Resonance Labs Concero or Parasound Zdac? I've done a lot of research, but wasn't sure where the point of diminishing returns was with dacs....... especially considering the odacs reputation.


----------



## manbear

davidvanderbilt said:


> I have the ODAC > Bottlehead crack > Hd 600 combo. Would it even be worth the money to upgrade to something like the Resonance Labs Concero or Parasound Zdac? I've done a lot of research, but wasn't sure where the point of diminishing returns was with dacs....... especially considering the odacs reputation.


 
 I am interested in a comparison of these two DACs vs something like the ODAC as well. I actually have the HRT MS2, but the answer to this question would nevertheless be informative to me.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

manbear said:


> I am interested in a comparison of these two DACs vs something like the ODAC as well. I actually have the HRT MS2, but the answer to this question would nevertheless be informative to me.


 
  
 In the Concero forum, someone gave a brief summary of them compared to each other and the HDP, but not in much detail: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634760/resonessence-labs-concero-discussion-review-thead/570#post_9446856
  
 It's still hard to tell whether the extra 500 or so would be worth it. I guess what I will have to do is try one of them through a website I can return to.


----------



## manbear

davidvanderbilt said:


> In the Concero forum, someone gave a brief summary of them compared to each other and the HDP, but not in much detail: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634760/resonessence-labs-concero-discussion-review-thead/570#post_9446856
> 
> It's still hard to tell whether the extra 500 or so would be worth it. I guess what I will have to do is try one of them through a website I can return to.


 
 Yeah, I've read that entire thread. I guess I already know the answer. Some small differences, but the hard part is deciding if I want to spend the money. Such is life.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

manbear said:


> Yeah, I've read that entire thread. I guess I already know the answer. Some small differences, but the hard part is deciding if I want to spend the money. Such is life.


 
  
 Exactly! I was hoping someone that has more experience with different DACs could chime in here, since mine is pretty limited


----------



## adydula

Dave I have a HRT MSii+ and ODACS...you wont notice any difference between the two...
  
 Alex


----------



## Kirnupiima

I've been having some problems with my ODAC on recent days. It gets somehow disconnected from the computer randomly. It just freezes and I have to reconnect it for it to work again. Sometimes I see it quickly disappear or flash in the windows playback devices list but it might or might not freeze.
  
 I've also used it with an externally powered USB hub and doen't seem to make a difference. Any homebrewing tips or contact the seller? I know a bit about electronics but I think troubleshooting from the PCB might be a bit much with so small components.


----------



## adydula

Make sure your cable and connector (connections) are solid etc.....this can happen if the cable comes loose or is not a good mechanical fit.
  
 Also try another USB port on you system and or try the ODAC on another PC entirely.
  
 Alex


----------



## Zoide

I'm thinking of getting an ODAC with RCA outputs so that I can connect the 3.5mm output to my O2 headphone amp and the RCA outputs to my stereo speaker amplifier.  However, the JDS Labs webpage warns: " Please note that ODAC supports only 1 output; do not use 3.5mm and RCA jacks simultaneously."
  
 Why is that?  What would happen if I connect my equipment as described above?  I only intend to have one of the amplifiers on at a time (it wouldn't make a lot of sense to listen to music on the headphones and speakers simultaneously).
  
 Thanks


----------



## ProtegeManiac

zoide said:


> I'm thinking of getting an ODAC with RCA outputs so that I can connect the 3.5mm output to my O2 headphone amp and the RCA outputs to my stereo speaker amplifier.  However, the JDS Labs webpage warns: " Please note that ODAC supports only 1 output; do not use 3.5mm and RCA jacks simultaneously."
> 
> Why is that?  What would happen if I connect my equipment as described above?  I only intend to have one of the amplifiers on at a time (it wouldn't make a lot of sense to listen to music on the headphones and speakers simultaneously).
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Just unplug the 3.5mm if you're using the RCA output. They're less susceptible to wear, given the RCA plugs' design that has them contracting and expanding if pulled out and pushed back in too often, that _might_ scratch the coating.


----------



## Zoide

protegemaniac said:


> Just unplug the 3.5mm if you're using the RCA output. They're less susceptible to wear, given the RCA plugs' design that has them contracting and expanding if pulled out and pushed back in too often, that _might_ scratch the coating.




Couldn't I just turn the headphone amp on/off instead of having to plug and unplug the 3.5mm cable?


----------



## ProtegeManiac

zoide said:


> Couldn't I just turn the headphone amp on/off instead of having to plug and unplug the 3.5mm cable?


 
  
 The way I understand their note on the site, in order to prevent the meager power supply (USB 5v) from having to output through both sets, one of them is selected somehow. Or worse, it might select RCA output as default. It would really be best to ask JDS Labs for details, but the thing is, on such a small chassis, getting two sets of outputs is already a lot compared to similar DACs. Most of the others only have an SPDIF output (converting the USB signal).


----------



## Zoide

I wrote to JDS Labs and this is what they replied:
  
 "It's actually acceptable to connect two devices as long as both have an input impedance of at least 5k. When a device's input impedance is too low (or unknown), ODAC's performance suffers.
  
 Behavior remains identical even if the external device is turned off. The fact that it's plugged in means it's placing an impedance load on the ODAC."


----------



## ProtegeManiac

zoide said:


> I wrote to JDS Labs and this is what they replied:
> 
> "It's actually acceptable to connect two devices as long as both have an input impedance of at least 5k. When a device's input impedance is too low (or unknown), ODAC's performance suffers.
> 
> Behavior remains identical even if the external device is turned off. The fact that it's plugged in means it's placing an impedance load on the ODAC."




Ah so it has to do with the impedance, not necessarily just the power. Better check your amps then; who knows both of 'me could be high enough.


----------



## adydula

I did this a few times and it was terrible.....one was a AVR receiver the other was a PC usb ....very noticeable.
  
 Alex


----------



## mnarwold

So, I finished the new case for the O2 and ODAC.


----------



## MaciekN

I just recieved an ODAC, soldered the output jack, connected it to a hedphone amp and tried A/B against my old wm8716 + cs8414 DAC. Honestly I couldn't tell much difference on my headphones, though I must admit that neither the amp (bravo audio 6n11 tube amp with 32R output impedance) or my headphones (somewhat modded Alessandro MS-1i) are top notch. Anyway I expected to be blown away, or at least that the differences would be obvious considering that ODAC should be a statement DAC when it comes to PC audio...


----------



## mcandmar

Keep listening, the difference will be in what you cant hear.   I have a couple of DACS, DIY CS8416-CS4398, and a CIAudio CS8416-PCM1794 and they all have their own subtle signature but the ODAC is the most revealing, and cleanest of the three.  Not the must fun to listen to, but technically the best.


----------



## mnarwold

OK guys, need some help. After almost a year of faithful duty, my ODAC has added a great deal of noise to my music. Not just a little bit of background noise, but lots of seemingly random noise. Some pops and clicks and hiss and buzz. Sometimes I hear a distant sine sweep up then down. My first thought was to unplug and plug in again, no go. I then tried a powered USB hub, no go. I restarted computer, no go. I uninstalled the driver and let it reinstall, no go. I tried every USB output on my laptop, no go. I took it out of the above wooden case, no go. I tried on another computer, no go. I tried an "electronics cleaner," no go.
  
 After building the wooden case it did work.
  
 I'm out of ideas and not really looking forward to buying another DAC. Is there something I should try?


----------



## MaciekN

mcandmar said:


> Keep listening, the difference will be in what you cant hear.   I have a couple of DACS, DIY CS8416-CS4398, and a CIAudio CS8416-PCM1794 and they all have their own subtle signature but the ODAC is the most revealing, and cleanest of the three.  Not the must fun to listen to, but technically the best.


 

 For over an hour I was going back and forth and whenever I thought I had found something my old dac can't do I went back only to hear that it stays on par with the newcomer. Sometimes I spotted the difference first on the old unit and conversely had troubles finding something that odac wouldn't do. There surely is some room for improvement in the testing procedure such as careful level matching, or eliminating differences on the software side (like using kernel streaming or direct sound) but again, I expected the odac to perform noticably better than a dac with obsolete chips. I did mod my old dac ny adding a piwer supply regulator here and there but then I heard it beaten by some mid tier arcam cd player in a speaker set up, so it's not like I had too much faith in my dac when testing against odac. This makes me even more surprised by the intangible and doubtful differences, hope that odac will somewhat improve over time.


----------



## mnarwold

mnarwold said:


> OK guys, need some help. After almost a year of faithful duty, my ODAC has added a great deal of noise to my music. Not just a little bit of background noise, but lots of seemingly random noise. Some pops and clicks and hiss and buzz. Sometimes I hear a distant sine sweep up then down. My first thought was to unplug and plug in again, no go. I then tried a powered USB hub, no go. I restarted computer, no go. I uninstalled the driver and let it reinstall, no go. I tried every USB output on my laptop, no go. I took it out of the above wooden case, no go. I tried on another computer, no go. I tried an "electronics cleaner," no go.
> 
> After building the wooden case it did work.
> 
> I'm out of ideas and not really looking forward to buying another DAC. Is there something I should try?


 
 OK, just to update on what other things I've tried.
  
 I've replaced both the usb and the audio cable with no change
 I've booted into linux and have the same issue
 I actually noticed that the noise began even before the computer booted. Just going into the bios has the noise going.
 It doesn't have any noise when plugged into a powered usb hub when the hub isn't plugged into the computer, not sure if that tells us anything.
  
 So far I can't think of anything except product failure, but that just seems a bit unlikely. It seems like electronics failure is the last possibility in troubleshooting.


----------



## MaciekN

Perhaps there is a severe ground loop wjen you connect it to the PC, computer psu are known for inducing lots of noise into the power lines. You could try adding a usb isolator such as adum4160 if i remember correctly, also check for loose pins on usb connector or any of the chips, perhaps some of the ground or supply voltage pins has poor contact and the signal is floating.


----------



## Hi Rez

maciekn said:


> I just recieved an ODAC, soldered the output jack, connected it to a hedphone amp and tried A/B against my old wm8716 + cs8414 DAC. Honestly I couldn't tell much difference on my headphones, though I must admit that neither the amp (bravo audio 6n11 tube amp with 32R output impedance) or my headphones (somewhat modded Alessandro MS-1i) are top notch. Anyway I expected to be blown away, or at least that the differences would be obvious considering that ODAC should be a statement DAC when it comes to PC audio...


 
 Unfortunate that it didn't meet your expectations.  I believe it is a decent DAC for it's price.  But IMO it would be quite a stretch to consider it a statement DAC.


----------



## HaVoC-28

maciekn said:


> I just recieved an ODAC, soldered the output jack, connected it to a hedphone amp and tried A/B against my old wm8716 + cs8414 DAC. Honestly I couldn't tell much difference on my headphones, though I must admit that neither the amp (bravo audio 6n11 tube amp with 32R output impedance) or my headphones (somewhat modded Alessandro MS-1i) are top notch. Anyway I expected to be blown away, or at least that the differences would be obvious considering that ODAC should be a statement DAC when it comes to PC audio...


 
  
 At level Matched all decently built DACs should sound the same , it's was i experienced comparing A-GD NFB-2/17.2 (Dual WM8741 chip), FSA Sptifire HD (PCM1798) , ODAC (ESS 9023) , Xonar DX(CS4398) and a Pioneer DVD player (PCM1754) . (Pluged to a SPL Auditor and Beyer T1 as reference can) .
  
 If you don't level match them their can be some difference more or less depending on how much voltage they output .


----------



## MaciekN

Well, the voltage difference is huge, I'm running the wm8716 with no output stage (direct out) which with 5V supply produces humlbe 1V RMS of output, while ODAc has 2V as in redbook standard. I couldnt do a quick switch because every time I had to adjust the volme by ear to hear anything in one casae, or not to blow my ears in the other. Still, the DACs were very close if not identical, and that's surprising cinsidering that wm8716 was never meant for any ambitious audiophile stuff.
  
 It's probably due to the amp and cans being not resolving enough but then again what gear is needed to discern sources that should clearly vary in quality.
  
 People tend to put much too much importance on source disregarding upstream equipment.


----------



## imackler

Quick Question: I've done some reading on the ODAC vs. Dragonfly. Based on DAC only (especially since they have the same internal chip), comments seem to find them very comparable but that the Dragonfly was not worth the increased cost. But now that the Dragonfly version 1 has come down to $100 is there a compelling reason to spend more for the ODAC?


----------



## adydula

No....the ODAC for $99 is a great dac.
  
 I have 2 of them now.
  
 You really can not tell the difference.....
  
 Alex


----------



## imackler

adydula said:


> No....the ODAC for $99 is a great dac.
> 
> I have 2 of them now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The odac at JDS is $149 now... Is there a place to get it cheaper?


----------



## Ashade

I would only buy the ODAC to include it in a O2 enclosure ($99). Otherwise I wouldn't pay the extra fee. There are other much cheaper good alternatives.


----------



## adydula

This is the $99 board...
  
 http://www.jdslabs.com/products/39/odac-objectivedac/
  
 I bought 2 of them and wired on into an O2 amp enclosure the other i made my own case.....np..
  
 Alex


----------



## campj

ashade said:


> I would only buy the ODAC to include it in a O2 enclosure ($99). Otherwise I wouldn't pay the extra fee. There are other much cheaper good alternatives.



 


Such as?


----------



## Ashade

campj said:


> ashade said:
> 
> 
> > I would only buy the ODAC to include it in a O2 enclosure ($99). Otherwise I wouldn't pay the extra fee. There are other much cheaper good alternatives.
> ...




Sabre DAC


----------



## campj

Thanks for the tip. I wish it had RCA out as an option instead of just 3mm jack.


----------



## Ashade

I know... It's definitely not perfect. You can always assemble the ODAC by yourself and save some dollars.


----------



## campj

Nah, I'd destroy six ODACs trying to assemble one myself... not too cost effective.

Ha, I just saw this:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/696611/new-version-of-hifimediy-sabre-usb-dac-2-external-psu-with-amp

RCA issue solved!


----------



## Ashade

That's the way to go man. I'm telling you. $80 dollars cheaper.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Anyone who used the ODAC with an Android phone (no powerbank with pigtail cable or USB isolator), is the sound the same with a standard USB output from a computer? I'm just thinking maybe the SGS3 might not supply the same kind of power that a computer's USB port does. I have the Cantate.2 now but its own PSU powers the DAC circuit (the phone only powers the indicator lamp for the USB input), so I'm not sure if the ODAC is getting all the power it needs. I'll be using the RCA output version with the Cantate.


----------



## Ashade

protegemaniac said:


> Anyone who used the ODAC with an Android phone (no powerbank with pigtail cable or USB isolator), is the sound the same with a standard USB output from a computer? I'm just thinking maybe the SGS3 might not supply the same kind of power that a computer's USB port does. I have the Cantate.2 now but its own PSU powers the DAC circuit (the phone only powers the indicator lamp for the USB input), so I'm not sure if the ODAC is getting all the power it needs. I'll be using the RCA output version with the Cantate.




I used it with a Galaxy Note II and a Nexus 10. Worked flawlessly and sounded as good as from my iMac. I had a custom O2+ODAC powered on batteries. The ODAC doesn't pull juice from the batteries though.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

ashade said:


> I used it with a Galaxy Note II and a Nexus 10. Worked flawlessly and sounded as good as from my iMac. I had a custom O2+ODAC powered on batteries. The ODAC doesn't pull juice from the batteries though.


 
  
 Thanks! Is it safe to assume the S3 should be able to give it the same amount of power? Does using the ODAC with the Note 3 drain your battery a lot faster?


----------



## Ashade

protegemaniac said:


> Thanks! Is it safe to assume the S3 should be able to give it the same amount of power? Does using the ODAC with the Note 3 drain your battery a lot faster?


 
  
 Sorry, I'm unpackaging as I moved the day before yesterday, so it takes me a while till I can answer. I would say it's going to work no problem with the S3.
  
 Using any usb DAC in your phone makes it to drain quite fast. I don't think I have any records of that but I will have them at some point during this week. I sold the combo a month ago because I needed the money back, but I am ordering a new one today or tomorrow. I still have two O2+ODAC combos to be assembled some time this week.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

ashade said:


> Sorry, I'm unpackaging as I moved the day before yesterday, so it takes me a while till I can answer. I would say it's going to work no problem with the S3.
> 
> Using any usb DAC in your phone makes it to drain quite fast. I don't think I have any records of that but I will have them at some point during this week. I sold the combo a month ago because I needed the money back, but I am ordering a new one today or tomorrow. I still have two O2+ODAC combos to be assembled some time this week.


 
  
 Thanks, and no problems with the reply times! Looks like I'll still have to find the proper cable, even if it works, as I'd like to minimize charging cycles on my phone. Although it only really gets hot if I'm charging while it's in its case with WiFi running.


----------



## Ashade

protegemaniac said:


> Thanks, and no problems with the reply times! Looks like I'll still have to find the proper cable, even if it works, as I'd like to minimize charging cycles on my phone. Although it only really gets hot if I'm charging while it's in its case with WiFi running.




Really? It gets that hot? That's weird... anyways, no worries about charging cycles. There are two reasons for this: 1) Batteries are dirt cheap, 2) Microcycles at 100%, when you leave it plugged with full battery, are much worse than just one cycle between 20 and 80% (just in lithium-ion batteries).

Regarding the cable, there are several options. Toxic Cables used to sell one. I think Fiio and JDS labs do as well.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

ashade said:


> Really? It gets that hot? That's weird... anyways, no worries about charging cycles. There are two reasons for this: 1) Batteries are dirt cheap, 2) Microcycles at 100%, when you leave it plugged with full battery, are much worse than just one cycle between 20 and 80% (just in lithium-ion batteries)


 

 Really hot, especially if I'm using LTE instead of WiFi, and also still warms up while charging with the case on and the phone running (if I'm not expecting calls I charge while it's powered down). And yeah I know batteries last longer nowadays (any reduction in batt life since new is more attributable to more apps running than battery wear), but I'm planning on keeping the phone indefinitely, what with the S4 suddenly losing native USB Audio support and I'm not yet set on whether I should get a dedicated music server. And batteries aren't all that cheap; the cheap ones I see on eBay and Amazon are knock-offs with bad reviews.

 In any case the other reason to not use the S3's battery for the ODAC really is because I already have a powerbank for it, with enough capacity to charge the S3 from 40% to full twice over, so using it to power a DAC at home (avoiding additional heat and cycles on the S3 in the process) would be convenient and I just need to find the right cable for it.


----------



## RAZRr1275

Any cheap powered USB hubs that people are using to get cleaner power?


----------



## Kirnupiima

I fancied the Icy Box models. Not too expensive and looks good on the table too!
http://goo.gl/Z9BlNl


----------



## RAZRr1275

kirnupiima said:


> I fancied the Icy Box models. Not too expensive and looks good on the table too!
> http://goo.gl/Z9BlNl


 
 Any difference in SQ when using it?


----------



## Kirnupiima

razrr1275 said:


> Any difference in SQ when using it?


 
 Digital is digital so no. The external power supply of the hub prevents the occasional disconnects and signal losses from happening though. The 'charging port' also comes in handy with just quickly charging the phone or pad etc.


----------



## audionewbi

Here goes nothing, sadly (for my own sake) ODAC as a source for my 627x provides a much more satisfying presentation than my AK120. The top end has much more detailing and the lower end is might tighter. 
  
 Perhaps AK120 might shine on occasion but as a DAC alone (ignoring its DAP functionality) I cannot see why one would pick AK120 over ODAC considering the price difference.


----------



## Ashade

audionewbi said:


> Here goes nothing, sadly (for my own sake) ODAC as a source for my 627x provides a much more satisfying presentation than my AK120. The top end has much more detailing and the lower end is might tighter.
> 
> Perhaps AK120 might shine on occasion but as a DAC alone (ignoring its DAP functionality) I cannot see why one would pick AK120 over ODAC considering the price difference.




LOL! Didn't read that. That's good to know. I've never been a fan of DAPs though but now you can even consider selling the DAP and just work with and O2+ODAC with the batteries kept. :rolleyes:


----------



## audionewbi

As lovely and neutral O2 is i sadly like more warmer sounding amp now days. O2 will remain my reference along side meir audio quick step.


----------



## adydula

Try not using your cans for a week or so, then go back and re-listen to your "stuff" its amazing on how you grow tired of what you once thought was really outstanding and amazing!!..
  
 I did this with 4 sets of headphones and amps and found all of them really good for the most part....
  
 Staying with one set of anything seems great but humans often tire and wander about looking for perfection when they already have it!!
  
 LOL.
  
 A.


----------



## jasonb

I've finally hooked speakers up to my vintage Pioneer SX-750 and of course I'm using my ODAC with my laptop as the source. The ODAC continues to impress me. It does good with headphones, and it does well with my speakers as well. No surprise of course.


----------



## adydula

Those older AVR's are really neat to me as well....some of the most awesome AVR's were mase in the 70's that you just do not find around anymore....
  
 Glad your liking the ODAC..
  
 Alex


----------



## kozmos

I really want a power led on my odac, can anyone tell me were i should solder the wires ?


----------



## mcandmar

There is a solder pad for a power right beside the audio output pads, its right next to the inductor.  I think its 3.3v but measure it first to be sure and use a suitable resistor for your LED.


----------



## yossi126

Listening to my new ODAC for a day now. Very impressed with it.
 I have the LCD-2 and B22, so my reference point is high. I previously had a buffalo-II which had a fault in it so I haven't listened to my gear in a while.
 I heard many dacs and this is the first one (odac) I can confidently say that there is no real flaw in it. Just a great piece of equipment.
 Though I can't compare side by side to the buffalo, I remember with the buffalo I had to lower the volume down from time to time due to treble hotness.
 That is not the case with the ODAC. It is just so crisp and nicely balanced.
 I'm hearing the Dark Knight Rises OST and never have enjoyed it more than now.


----------



## adydula

The ODAC is just about as perfect as you can get .....regardless of price...
  
 Amazing DAC for sure...
  
 Alex


----------



## davidvanderbilt

Has anyone upgraded from the ODAC to the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, Concero, or the Arcam irDAC? I am currently using the ODAC and am just trying to figure out how the sound signature will change


----------



## adydula

I have tried several DACS but none of those and don't hear any real world differences at all.
  
 The ODAC is really totally neutral and doesnt add anything or take anything away.
  
 I would think that if any other DACS are designed as well and meet the specs that the ODAC has there should be no real difference between them.
  
 The ODAC provides for 100% transparent performance, its as simple as that.
  
 No real need to spend more $$$$$ on a DAC unless well......
  
 A.


----------



## yossi126

davidvanderbilt said:


> Has anyone upgraded from the ODAC to the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, Concero, or the Arcam irDAC? I am currently using the ODAC and am just trying to figure out how the sound signature will change


 
 Try different headphones, five years ago the hd600 were a kind of a default. Now you have much more options.
 Leave the dac alone.


----------



## AsianBatman

davidvanderbilt said:


> Has anyone upgraded from the ODAC to the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, Concero, or the Arcam irDAC? I am currently using the ODAC and am just trying to figure out how the sound signature will change


 
  
 I mainly agree with the previous posts. Are you planning to use the Emotiva's amp section at all? Looks like they add a little dB to the lower end to compensate for "most headphones" short comings.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

Thanks for everyone's input! I actually like the sound signature of my HD 600s, so maybe I mis-spoke. I just wanted anyone's input on the Odac compared to these DACs. I have tried the NAD 1050 with my rig and it was clearly a step above the ODAC in terms of transparency, instrument separation, and smoothness/lifelike sound.


----------



## AsianBatman

davidvanderbilt said:


> Thanks for everyone's input! I actually like the sound signature of my HD 600s, so maybe I mis-spoke. I just wanted anyone's input on the Odac compared to these DACs. I have tried the NAD 1050 with my rig and it was clearly a step above the ODAC in terms of transparency, instrument separation, and smoothness/lifelike sound.


 
  
 Sorry I couldn't put any input you are looking for. Those DACs are beautiful btw :]


----------



## Battou62

davidvanderbilt said:


> Thanks for everyone's input! I actually like the sound signature of my HD 600s, so maybe I mis-spoke. I just wanted anyone's input on the Odac compared to these DACs. I have tried the NAD 1050 with my rig and it was clearly a step above the ODAC in terms of transparency, instrument separation, and smoothness/lifelike sound.


 
 I call BS on that! Measurements or it didn't happen


----------



## mcandmar

Never heard of NAD products, and not much written about its internals but looking at the above pic thats in another league to an ODAC... I totally believe him.


----------



## HaVoC-28

mcandmar said:


> Never heard of NAD products, and not much written about its internals but looking at the above pic thats in another league to an ODAC... I totally believe him.


 
  
 A more complicated design don't mean a better design , but the NAD could be techniquelly better than an ODAC (well the ODAC is just using a entry level DAC from ESS maxed out ) , still there is better DACs than what used in the ODAC , it will have better measurements (if well implemented) . The thing is : is this will be audible at Carrefully Volume Matched ? I don't think soo ... (at least it's what i experienced , but you could always try , because volume matching with hear = no volume matching) .


----------



## adydula

More is not necessarily better.....
  
 A.


----------



## Phait

I bought mine from Audio Poutine here in Canada and I really like having both 1.5mm and RCA outs; it makes changing between speakers and headphones easy. It really is a shame the designer went MIA before giving us the ODA. Nonetheless I don't think I'll be parting with my ODAC anytime in the foreseeable future.


----------



## MaciekN

The Nad DAC may sound better without measuring better than ODAC. Some may like slightly rolled off highs or some other signature mark, that when complemented with good overall measurements might be more enjoyable, don't forget that. It is all down to what you expect your DAC to do.


----------



## adydula

I expect a DAC to dont do a thing but a 100% digital to analog translation.
  
 Not to add anything in the process.
  
 Alex


----------



## davidvanderbilt

maciekn said:


> The Nad DAC may sound better without measuring better than ODAC. Some may like slightly rolled off highs or some other signature mark, that when complemented with good overall measurements might be more enjoyable, don't forget that. It is all down to what you expect your DAC to do.


 
  
  
 Exactly. Technically, I'm not sure if the NAD is better, but I just liked it more. It's all about personal preference!


----------



## adydula

Hey Dave, I understand that...when I look at a Vioelectric V200 comapared to my 02's I much prefer the Vio's but the sound isnt any better than the O2 to my ears...
  
 A.


----------



## eimis

Hi guys, just joined the club today.
  
 My previous DAC was the ~$450 Yulong D100. And I would always notice something weird about cymbals in my music and the higher frequencies in general. Instead of a clean "Ts" i would hear a "Tshz". Since I really had nothing else to compare my D100 DAC to, I did not make any serious conclusions and kinda thought that's how recorded cymbals sound LOL. But I always had a suspicion. 
  
 Came back home, set it all up, put my FA-003 on, then the HD650, T50RP. And... I don't see myself buying a chinese DAC/AMP again.
  
 Not even the D100 internal head amp sucks, but the DAC, too!
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Rem0o

ODAC is serious business for the money. What you lose in connectivity, you gain it in pure sound quality.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Sorry, it's a little beyond me. How do I know if I need a powered USB hub for my odac. Jds labs says if you have harsh distortion use a powered hub.
So far I think my odac sound effing great! But I'm new to this hobby. This is my first audiophile setup. So no duh it sounds amazing compared to what I was used to.
So my question is this: would a powered USB hub make ANY ODAC setup sound better? 
Would a powered USB hub not possibly add noise to a signal? 
Would any powered hub do?

Okay... So nwav and jds labs say to use a ferrite core USB lab. Nwav explains that this is best choice because USB dacs get their source signal and and power supply running along the same cable which can cause noise.
So.... Wouldn't this also be true for the USB cable running from the PC to the hub?


----------



## MaciekN

Harsh distortion is present when the unit is severely underpowered, for example when you have a power hungry something connected to the same hub (on your motherboard) like a charger and there isnt enough power for the ODAC, at least that's my guess. If it sounds great then it's perfectly OK.
  
 Q1 - Any odac setup? perhaps. There were reports that when paired with an isolator like ADUM4160 (available in kits) and external power supply the sound improves, although these were only subjective impressions.  Probably some high-end usb hubs provide isloation from PC power lines, and most (if not all) provide external power supply which may be less (or more) noisy than PC's, thus theoretically making a difference. On paper if the ODAC is working fine then you won't benefit from a hub.
  
 Q2 - USB hub may add more noise if it's power supply is of very poor quality (very, very cheap). Again, theoretically, as long as its working ODAC should not be affected.
  
 Q3 - see Q1
  
 Q4 - As far as I understand the ferrite core filters some of the high frequency power supply noise, so if you have it just at the ODAC end of the cable and not between PC and hub it should still filter any power supply noise, be it from PC or hub. So no, theoretically you don't need a ferrite between your PC and hub, though it would do no harm either.
  
 Overall you can assume that ODAC was designed to be highly immune to noisy power supply and just enjoy the music.


----------



## adydula

I agree if it sounds great then there is most likely no real benefits to spending more bucks on other things etc....
  
 Enjoy!!
 Alex


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

maciekn said:


> Harsh distortion is present when the unit is severely underpowered, for example when you have a power hungry something connected to the same hub (on your motherboard) like a charger and there isnt enough power for the ODAC, at least that's my guess. If it sounds great then it's perfectly OK.
> 
> Q1 - Any odac setup? perhaps. There were reports that when paired with an isolator like ADUM4160 (available in kits) and external power supply the sound improves, although these were only subjective impressions.  Probably some high-end usb hubs provide isloation from PC power lines, and most (if not all) provide external power supply which may be less (or more) noisy than PC's, thus theoretically making a difference. On paper if the ODAC is working fine then you won't benefit from a hub.
> 
> ...




Wow. Awesome response! Thanks. 
Answered everything I was curious about.


----------



## Maxx134

After listening and finally upgrading dacs, 
I have to say you will have to go very high in price to achieve a realistic and noticable better level from the odac..

Don't waste your money and time on anything less than $700 and up range for a real difference..

The difference will be too small to justify and even the rest of your equipment may not take advantage..

For me the difference had nothing to do with the specs, perfomace bits or sound signature,

But namely the hard to measure or define areas of perception, depth & presence..


----------



## palermo

Hello, I've had ODAC for a while, but not anymore. 
 Now I am using C5D, (PCM5102). Could anyone compare the DAC it self with the ODAC? 

 sometime I miss how to ODAC sound. someone show me something interesting, cDAC+ from audio poutine. 
 this stuff is same ODAC with addition galvanic isolator Adum with ext. 5V DC supply. 
 link = https://www.facebook.com/AudioPoutine?fref=ts


----------



## Spiral Out

I have a similar question as polermo. I have been thinking about getting a usb isolator for my ODAC. I have tried the ODAC with a belkin 4 port usb hub and perferred the sound of the direct connection to my laptop. I felt the usb hub made the the ODAC sound brighter than the laptop connection. Overall I found the sound fatiguing out of the hub. I've read through this post and found a few impressions of members using a usb isolator, but these impressions were a little vague. There is nothing offensive sounding about the ODAC being connected directly to my laptop,I would just like to squeeze as much performance out of the ODAC as possible.
  
 This is the Isolator I have been considering:
 http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces/adum4160-usb-isolator-board-populated


----------



## mcandmar

> Originally Posted by *Spiral Out* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This is the Isolator I have been considering:
> http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces/adum4160-usb-isolator-board-populated


 
  
 Thats the basic kit i used in my build, but you dont want to use that power supply, you will need a decent linear one.  You can buy that kit without the power supply parts here http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces but to be honest you would be better off waiting for Tomb to finish his isolator/power supply kit and buy that instead.


----------



## Kirnupiima

mcandmar said:


> Thats the basic kit i used in my build, but you dont want to use that power supply, you will need a decent linear one.  You can buy that kit without the power supply parts here http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces but to be honest you would be better off waiting for Tomb to finish his isolator/power supply kit and buy that instead.


 
 Could you give a link to that project? Interesting stuff guys!


----------



## mcandmar

kirnupiima said:


> Could you give a link to that project? Interesting stuff guys!


 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/703334/doodlebug-usb-isolator


----------



## Spiral Out

mcandmar said:


> Thats the basic kit i used in my build, but you dont want to use that power supply, you will need a decent linear one.  You can buy that kit without the power supply parts here http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/usb-interfaces but to be honest you would be better off waiting for Tomb to finish his isolator/power supply kit and buy that instead.


 
 The Doodlebug looks very interesting. What would be the advantage of the Doodlebug over the isolator I mentioned with a linear power supply?
  
 Also I have never built anything on a pcb board. My only soldering experiance is repairing/building cables. Is an isolator difficult to build? One of the main reasons I was interested in the circuitsathome.com board was that it was pre built.


----------



## 00940

spiral out said:


> The Doodlebug looks very interesting. What would be the advantage of the Doodlebug over the isolator I mentioned with a linear power supply?
> 
> Also I have never built anything on a pcb board. My only soldering experiance is repairing/building cables. Is an isolator difficult to build? One of the main reasons I was interested in the circuitsathome.com board was that it was pre built.


 
  
 The circuitsathome isolator and the doodlebug are very similar. However, the regulator used in the doodlebug is a linear one, while the circuitsathome usb isolator uses a switcher which is not particularly low-noise. Which led someone to hack the board: http://www.circuitsathome.com/measurements/linear-power-supply-on-usb-isolator-board
  
 The doodlebug will also accept ac inputs, the other one is dc only.


----------



## DNICE1

I have been using an ODAC for a few weeks now and my experience is that when I connect it to the USB 2 port of my Asus Core i3 laptop the top end is slightly more prominent but very clear and sounds good connected to my CA 840A amp and B&W 685 speakers but when I connected the ODAC to my A1 amp with DT880 600 the treble becomes uncomfortable after half an hour. 

So I bought this power supply and modded the usb cable to use the external power and the treble is now sweet and not fatiguing anymore with the DT880. So in my case the external linear power injection has made real difference and the ODAC sounds exceptionally good with my headfi now.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-linear-power-supplies/0592076/

BTW, I didn't pay the full price for this power supply got it really cheap in an auction.


----------



## mcandmar

As above, the Doodlebug is the same isolator chip but with a nice power supply built onto the same board, and ultimately will all fit inside a nice enclosure.
  
 Quote:


dnice1 said:


> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/embedded-linear-power-supplies/0592076/
> 
> BTW, I didn't pay the full price for this power supply got it really cheap in an auction.


 
  
 Interestingly, i just bought one of those boards from eBay last night to experiment with. What really caught my eye was the provision of a battery connection on it which would make a super quite power source, i'm thinking of using it to charge a 12v lead acid battery, then disconnect the mains and run off the battery pack for listening to music.  I will still use the low noise linear power supply i built, just with this unit & battery sitting in front of it.  I have no idea how good the regulator on that board is until i get the unit and test it, but at worst i will only use it as a battery charger circuit.


----------



## MaciekN

As stated on "the blog" ODAC does not need galvanic isolation to perform D/A conversion with no audible artifacts. Otherwise it would imply that the guy who designed it got it all wrong and doesn't know how it works. This especially relates to linear power supply - with the right (not necessarily expensive or complex) filtering modern switch mode power supplies can provide nice and clean enough power. Also remeber that ODAC has a built it 3.3 V power supply regulator.
  
 You don't need to buy anothing extra to enjoy the sonic performance of this unit, that is how it was designed.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

My Odac no longer works with my main computer. I just came home from a long trip. I got back and my anti virus updated, flash, windows had 18 updates when I reset. I installed foobar and an adiational USB dac for my home theatre. 
 Then my ODAC stopped working propably. I tried deleting foobar and the driver for the other USB dac. no good. 
 JDSlabs has no idea, they said they have never heard of this. 
 It is like the ODAC has the volume turned WAY down on the lower 2/3 of the frenuqncey range. The top 1/3 of sounds just fine. 
 I plug it in, out. Nothing. Sometimes I try and it just works. I go to the other room come back. Messed up again. 
 I tried it on my wifes computer and it works. I know it has something to do with drivers and all the updates I did in one sitting. 
 I have no restore point. Do I really have to re-install just to get my ODAC working. 
 To make matters worse I have a Japanese computer. I can do 98% of what I need to on this computer just fine. Now trying to track down drivers and messing around with system menus, the register, and error messages, that is the 2% that I can't do. 
 NUTS! Just got my Fidelio X1s and can't even use my ODAC and O2 set up.


----------



## DNICE1

maciekn said:


> As stated on "the blog" ODAC does not need galvanic isolation to perform D/A conversion with no audible artifacts. Otherwise it would imply that the guy who designed it got it all wrong and doesn't know how it works. This especially relates to linear power supply - with the right (not necessarily expensive or complex) filtering modern switch mode power supplies can provide nice and clean enough power. Also remeber that ODAC has a built it 3.3 V power supply regulator.
> 
> You don't need to buy anothing extra to enjoy the sonic performance of this unit, that is how it was designed.




I am not at all implying that the designer got it wrong, all I am saying is that in my hifi setup I quite like the sound when ODAC is connected directly to my laptop and drawing power from USB (maybe the amp and speakers are a little warm sounding) but in my headfi setup the treble becomes too fatiguing quickly, this probably has more to do with either the character of the A1 amp/DT880 and the noisy USB power from my laptop but nonetheless, I can clearly tell a difference in top end with and without the linear power supply, it's quite distinguishable. 

The linear power supply in my case does tone down the top end a little but still not enough to my own liking for my headfi setup so out of curiosity, I have ordered an O2 from Epiphany Acoustics just to compare it with the A1. Maybe that will fix the problem if not then HD650 will be next on my upgrade list.


----------



## DNICE1

mcandmar said:


> I have no idea how good the regulator on that board is until i get the unit and test it, but at worst i will only use it as a battery charger circuit.




I will be interested in your tests of this power supply.


----------



## MaciekN

DNICE1 try a quick test - see if there is any sonic difference when running your laptop off battery vs power line. This should make a lot more difference than with that beefy external PS.
  
 Do report back when you get the O2 - it would be very interesting to know if it takes away the unpleasant treble. Anyne knows the PSRR figure for the A1?


----------



## DNICE1

MaciekN that's how I always listen to music if using USB with the switching power supply disconnected and laptop running on battery.

I will report back once I have the O2 and have compared it to the A1 to see if makes any difference.


----------



## DNICE1

maciekn said:


> DNICE1 try a quick test - see if there is any sonic difference when running your laptop off battery vs power line. This should make a lot more difference than with that beefy external PS.
> 
> Do report back when you get the O2 - it would be very interesting to know if it takes away the unpleasant treble. Anyne knows the PSRR figure for the A1?




While reading this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/703334/doodlebug-usb-isolator/105 a guy built and tested a USB Isolator called Doodlebug with an ODAC and not surprisingly got the exact same results which I did, check post #108 on page #8


----------



## MaciekN

Yes, nice. Now, pay a tribute to ODAC's designer and go measure it before and after after inserting external PS into the system, then compare the results with your subjective impressions, I'm sure that the whole community will appreciate your efforts. I, for one, am very eager to see your findings.
  
 BTW is there a change to the sound when your laptop is running off the mains and ODAC uses USB power? If so, how would you describe it?


----------



## tomb

Well, PCB's have been ordered and I hope to have things done sometime in April. Keep in mind that this is a team effort with the primary designer, Avro_Arrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Those of you that follow the ODAC may have learned to despise RMAA, but if used for direct comparison rather than absolute measurements, I don't think you can fault it:
  
*Noise Level*




  
*Dynamic Range*




_(note that RMAA uses a 1K carrier signal, hence the spike anomaly)_
  
 More details are available on the DIY section of the Head-Fi, but I don't want to risk the accusation of doing nothing but shilling.
  
 The PupDAC is admittedly, a Beezar product.  However, it is a quite sophisticated USB-powered DAC, having as many as 5 separate regulators onboard in addition to numerous electrolytic power caps. The USB for the DAC communicates via the TI PCM2706/7 chip, which is limited to only 16-bit/48kHz, maximum.  The DAC chip is a TI PCM1794, which is rated to -129dB S/N in stereo configuration.  Nevertheless - except for the tiny spikes, one can see that the total DAC implementation is less than -125dB S/N for pretty much everything from 300Hz to 20kHz.  (Oops!  That was an absolute reference. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Anyway, whether the DoodleBug provides a benefit depends on the power supply inherent on a USB-powered DAC's PCB.  For those DACs with few or no regulators, little performance improvement will be seen.  (Low-fi is still low-fi, IOW.)  For those DACs that are more sophisticated and include many regulators on the PCB, it will provide an improvement by ensuring sufficient voltage for the regulators to be within their regulating regime, if nothing else.  Some regs operate super-close to the bottom tolerance of USB voltage.  If there's not enough voltage available on the USB buss, they're not going to regulate as designed.
  
 Other USB isolator products do not provide a completely separate, linear-regulated power supply.  The DoodleBug will definitely be superior to those.  Similarly, as for USB hubs, I am not aware of any - including the Belkin - that uses a true, linear-regulated power supply ... except for the $200 iFi iUSB product.  Except for the iFi, they will all add to the distortion in the USB power supply for an audiophile device.
  
 In the tests that I've conducted through the years, it is absolutely amazing how poor USB power is, relative to audiophile needs.  Laptops and docking stations are absolutely atrocious.  Desktop/towers are very little better, except that the DAC may not knock offline as much due to irregularities in the USB stream.  One might go so far as to say the difference between a low-fi DAC and mid-fi/hi-fi DAC is whether it is USB-powered or not.  The DoodleBug can correct that.


----------



## DNICE1

maciekn said:


> Yes, nice. Now, pay a tribute to ODAC's designer and go measure it before and after after inserting external PS into the system, then compare the results with your subjective impressions, I'm sure that the whole community will appreciate your efforts. I, for one, am very eager to see your findings.
> 
> BTW is there a change to the sound when your laptop is running off the mains and ODAC uses USB power? If so, how would you describe it?




I think that the ODAC is a great sounding DAC and I am all for objectivity but in my experience with the ODAC with my own gear I am convinced that it can benefit from a good linear regulated PS to tame that little fatiguing top end. I would love to measure the change before and after the external PS if I could afford some decent test equipment but I can't so for the time being I would have to use my ears which of course is very subjective and affected by personal preferences.

I can hear a very slight change in sound when the laptop is running off the mains but it's very difficult for me to describe it. I connected and disconnected the PS multiple times while the music was playing and listened for any change in sound. The best I can describe it as the music sounds very slightly congested and unclear when I connect the mains power.


----------



## DNICE1

tomb said:


> Those of you that follow the ODAC may have learned to despise RMAA, but if used for direct comparison rather than absolute measurements, I don't think you can fault it:




If possible, could you run the same tests on an ODAC with and without the external PS and post the results? I think that many here including myself will be interested in your findings.


----------



## tomb

dnice1 said:


> tomb said:
> 
> 
> > Those of you that follow the ODAC may have learned to despise RMAA, but if used for direct comparison rather than absolute measurements, I don't think you can fault it:
> ...


 

 Well, if I had an ODAC - I would.  But I don't, so I can't.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Even though we've had disagreements in the past, I would defer to purrin's measurements/experience using an ODAC with a linear-regulated external power supply (it might've been the iFi, I can't remember).  If my recollection is correct, he confirmed that there were differences.
  
 There's also this:
  


fishski13 said:


> running off a dedicated USB PCI on my desktop without other devices connected, into either a B22 or QRV-08, and AD2000 or modded T50RP headphones, the ODAC is etched, bright, rough and harsh.  makes the BM DAC1 i recently sold after 6 years of enjoyment sound warm, smooth, and analog.  with the Doodlebug inserted, less bright/etched and more fleshed out.  more details and more natural sounding.  still not my cup of coffee, but the Doodlebug is an improvement in my rig.
> 
> maybe my desktop USB power really sucks, or the implementation of the secret sauce Sabre is black magic.  either way, isolation and clean power brings improvements.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Granted that's a subjective opinion, but one from a very-experienced, high-end DIY-er.
  
 The other thing to consider from an engineering perspective, is that it's logical and a conservative application.  It removes additional unknowns that have the potential to affect sound quality.  It's in the direction of _better -_ with zero risk - except for a small investment.


----------



## adydula

"the guys in the white lab coats have determined DNR greater than 100 dB results in transparency under realistic conditions. And, if you want to adjust the volume in software, it’s best to have at least 110 dB DNR to keep the noise floor inaudible even if the downstream gain is left cranked way up. Anything beyond 110 dB is past the point of diminishing returns—it looks nice on paper but doesn’t help the sound quality......"
  
 Fyi
 A.


----------



## tomb

adydula said:


> "the guys in the white lab coats have determined DNR greater than 100 dB results in transparency under realistic conditions. And, if you want to adjust the volume in software, it’s best to have at least 110 dB DNR to keep the noise floor inaudible even if the downstream gain is left cranked way up. Anything beyond 110 dB is past the point of diminishing returns—it looks nice on paper but doesn’t help the sound quality......"
> 
> Fyi
> A.


 

 With respect - as a source, the signal doesn't stay at "-100dB" for very long.  It gets amplified.


----------



## adydula

We aren't talking about signal amplification, just the bottom floor that allows for dynamic range etc...push the device dynamic range into the inaudible area it doesn't matter range...the ODAC is there with 'dirty' USB power.
  
 Adding other stuff to make this better it indeed subjective to me, IMO.
  
 I have tried using pure DC, and a very expensive LAMDA DC regulated supply and I can not honestly hear any real world differences.
  
 Its ok to have devices that make things "better" or go in the right direction, but with the ODAC they are really NOT needed.
  
 That said its your choice......the ODAC's already stellar measurements were achieved with normal USB power across a variety of devices.
  
 All the best
 A.


----------



## tomb

adydula said:


> We aren't talking about signal amplification, just the bottom floor that allows for dynamic range etc...push the device dynamic range into the inaudible area it doesn't matter range...the ODAC is there with 'dirty' USB power.
> 
> Adding other stuff to make this better it indeed subjective to me, IMO.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Inaudible where?  The measurements made from the perspective of the source - the initiation of the analog audio signal.  Any noise level introduced there is going to be amplified higher further down the audio string.  Just an FYI, but the common range of human hearing is reported as anywhere from 120 to 140dB (averages 130dB).  In any event, it's why you want a huge range/low noise on the source.

 I just find it fascinating that certain aspects of objectivity are honored, while others are not.  With respect - saying now that improving the noise floor is not really necessary is just as bad as stating that distortion is inaudible at certain levels, too.  It's inconsistent.
  
 Honestly, though, I'm not saying that anything is bad - just that there's a chance an improvement can be made.  So, we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.


----------



## adydula

Yup we certaintly will have to disagree to some point in this regards, its great we can be civil though!! No harm meant or intended.
  
 To me the ODAC has met all the criteria technically that provides a world class stellar DAC even on el crapo USB power.
  
 For something to do that is simply amazing.
  
 Good engineering at a very low cost in comparison to many other dacs out there.
  
 Making devices that improve on the specs is great even if there is no objective audible improvement.
  
 Improving on the noise floor is great but does it really do anything at all to the audible experience?
  
 To me, after experimenting, it does not.
  
 ~~The dynamic range of human hearing is roughly 140 dB.[7][8] The dynamic range of music as normally perceived in a concert hall doesn't exceed 80 dB, and human speech is normally perceived over a range of about 40 dB.[9]
  
 Most Redbook CD's don't exceed 96db and the real end result from CD with modern electronics is more like 90db.
  
 The ODAC designed to be transparent based on the designers basis and specs and reasons for them. This is the important thing to me. What are the specs that need to be met to ensure a totally transparent device. It neither adds or takes away from the job at hand.
  
 If you want a USB "cleaner" or better or cleaner USB power that's fine, it probably will not do anything to the actual audio but it may indeed do subjective wonders.......
  
 All the best
 A.


----------



## fishski13

the stock ODAC induced a headache within minutes 5min or less.  i don't have an O2 though.  the Doodlebug really did transform the DAC.  still not my flavor, but at least i could listen to it without pain.


----------



## MaciekN

Guys, come on. Just measure the ODAC with and without an external regulated linear power supply and be done with it. Then we can discuss how subjective impressions correlate with what is measured to have the full picture.
  
 140 dB dynamic range... as far as I remember anything above 90 can cause permanent hearing damage, so saying that we must aim for 140 dB dynamic range in audio gear is like sacrificing your hearing for this one perfect track that would leave you deaf afterwards. Its good to have headroom, sure, but even that USB powered DAC mentioned earlier had enough headroom. Also, when it comes to headphones in many cases the signal NOT amplified, quite the contrary - most need less than redbook 2V to reach 90 or 100 dB. Of course, high impedance TOTL stuff needs more voltage but the gain we are talking about is like 3 dB? 6? Perhaps 10?
  
 I general, (on measurement graphs) saying that all spikes are bad and no spikes is good is misinformation.
  
 I am not denying anyone the right to post their purely subjective impressions, in the end that is what this community is about, but when discussing ODAC with its specific design goals its nice to use both electronics knowledge and subjective impressions, together. And not only to justify one with the other.


----------



## DNICE1

maciekn said:


> Guys, come on. Just measure the ODAC with and without an external regulated linear power supply and be done with it. Then we can discuss how subjective impressions correlate with what is measured to have the full picture.




+1


----------



## Solrighal

I just bought my ODAC XL & O2 yesterday. I have never heard this level of quality before. Awesome.


----------



## jasonb

congrats!


----------



## jjacq

Hello guys, thinking of buying the O2/ODAC but I'm wondering if it's anyone uses it with KRK Rokits or any active speakers? I also own headphones so I will most likely get a splitter but I want to know any input in how you guys set this up with active speakers.
  
 *edit: ok I found my answer, use an ODAC to connect to active speakers. One follow up question would be if I can use the same ODAC with the O2 that will be used for headphone use?
  
 So essentially it looks like this:
  
 PC > ODAC > Speakers
 PC > ODAC > O2 > Headphones
  
 Do I need two ODACs to make this work? Or is there a way to not split the signal from the O2 to power speakers and headphones? I'd like to prevent double amping on the speakers if that's possible.
  
 I'm assuming a 3-way male to male to male cable would work. 1 end would go to the ODAC the other end to the O2 and the other end to the speakers...?


----------



## jasonb

jjacq said:


> Hello guys, thinking of buying the O2/ODAC but I'm wondering if it's anyone uses it with KRK Rokits or any active speakers? I also own headphones so I will most likely get a splitter but I want to know any input in how you guys set this up with active speakers.


 
 It should work fine with active speakers, it should just plug right into the input on them. 
  
 I use my ODAC with the aux input of my vintage Pioneer SX-750 along with some speakers and headphones. It's a great inexpensive DAC.


----------



## jasonb

You can simply use a splitter or a switch. Either one will work. There is no need for two DAC's.


----------



## MaciekN

You would need a second set of outputs from eithr ODAC or O2. You could connect your ODAC to O2 and a speaker amp by simply soldering the wires to both output jack and RCAs but thats suboptimal, it would be best to have only one source connected at a time (consider soldering a switch, or putting a passive preamp between any amps and ODAC). Second option is to get an O2 with RCAs on the back and a headphone jack with an integrated switch that enables RCAs only when the headphones are plugged out. Or just attach a splitter at O2 headphone out, speaker amp's high input impedance shouldn't make any difference to O2's output stage as it would be headphones with their relatively (compared to speaker amp) low impedance that would determine power requirements. Be careful though, because in this case you may get more than the usual 2V at speaker amp's input (worst case even 6-7 volts), so keep the volume low on your speakers.


----------



## jjacq

Thanks for the replies guys I'm assuming these two wires would work:
  

 So the line out cable to the ODAC then the other end to the splitter which connects 1) speakers and 2) O2 amp for headphones.
  
 I do have to convert that 3.5mm to RCA because my speakers only have RCA.

 Am I losing too much signal by doing this?


----------



## Solrighal

Or you could do what I did & buy this...

http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/odac-xl-version

... and this... 

http://www.headnhifi.com/amplifiers/desktop-headphone-amplifiers/O2-desktop-amplifier

Job done.


----------



## jjacq

solrighal said:


> Or you could do what I did & buy this...
> 
> http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/odac-xl-version
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes but I still have to split the RCA from the ODAC to the O2 and speakers? I feel like connecting the O2 to the speakers would cause double amping unless I'm wrong.


----------



## Solrighal

No you don't. The O2 in my link has a pass-through facility. You need to be careful with O2 volume but otherwise it will work fine. I specked my O2 with gains of 1x/3x. This allows me to leave it in 1x gain and when I'm listening to my Marantz amp I make sure the O2 volume is at max. It works a treat. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work with your Rokits. 

Put it this way - it better work because I'm selling my integrated amp with the intention of buying active monitors, possibly even Rokits.

Edit - hold that advice. I've read it back and I'm not sure either now. Perhaps the O2 volume should be at zero. Hopefully an adult will be along soon to help me.


----------



## MaciekN

Best get a passive preamp to go between the ODAC and amps, safest and cleanest option. You could even make one yourself


----------



## jjacq

maciekn said:


> Best get a passive preamp to go between the ODAC and amps, safest and cleanest option. You could even make one yourself


 
  
 So PC>ODAC>preamp>O2> speakers + monitor?
  
 How would that help, exactly? I feel like you're still double amping the monitors in the end.


----------



## schmalgausen

Hi all,

I use two ODACs, one in my office setup with short USB cable and the 2nd in my home desktop setup with long 2m cable. The 1st works fine and stable, but the 2nd sometimes looses connection with MS Windows 7 (no sound). Unplug-plug or restart of the PC helps, but it is not good way in the desktop system to reset. 

Is there any software way to reset the USB device in Win7?


----------



## MaciekN

jjacq said:


> So PC>ODAC>preamp>O2> speakers + monitor?
> 
> How would that help, exactly? I feel like you're still double amping the monitors in the end.


 

 PC>ODAC>preamp - >O2
                           \
                             ->speaker amp/active monitors
  
 With preamp's switchable outputs ODAC sees only one load at a time, which is optimal.
  
 Btw, "double amping" with O2 is perfectly acceptable, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it provided cleaner voltage (gain) than the amp in active monitors (should be enough for a small room voltage-wise). If you kept active speakers on low volume you would get clean voltage from O2 and enough current from active monitors amp's output stage, best of both worlds but that's a bit "overengineered", Preamp option is a cleaner solution (less cable clutter on your desk).


----------



## Solrighal

Isn't the O2 effectively a pre-amp when hooked up to active monitors?


----------



## jjacq

maciekn said:


> PC>ODAC>preamp - >O2
> \
> ->speaker amp/active monitors
> 
> ...


 

 Now the hard part, how much would a decent preamp cost? I just thought of something though which will greatly help me if this way actually works:

 PC>Aune T1(which I already own, using tube DAC only) > O2 > headphones
            \
              > (RCA to speakers)
  
 Sorry I know this is the ODAC portion but I just figured I'd update you as I update the LCD-2 thread as well. I'm looking into the O2/ODAC combo because the Aune T1 can't drive the LCD-2.


----------



## MaciekN

Shiit has one for 50$, it has 2 inputs and 1 input, I'm not 100% sure but as it's a passive preamp you could just connect it the other way around: O2 and speaker amp as inputs, and ODAC as output, and shwitch between them
  
 Im not sure if Aune has 2 sets of outputs but you could probably just bypass it's head amp, or simply use to to drive O2's input.


----------



## MaciekN

Would you guys think that analog crossfeed is a worthy addition to O2?
  
 What else apart from second set of outputs do you find missing in the stock design?


----------



## Solrighal

I'd like crossfeed too. And he left out the laser light show on my ceiling.


----------



## SilverEars

After all this time, I've realized why my Objective combo sounded great, it was the ODAC.  trying comparing DACs with ODAC, you'll notice a difference, I certainly do.  I can her more details with ODAC.


----------



## i019791

Which dacs did you compare with ?


----------



## HaVoC-28

And volume matching is done ?


----------



## SilverEars

No volume matching, but just a quick comparison to see find out what in the signal path that maybe affecting the headphone output.  I find that at all times, it turns out to be the ODAC, so I regard ODAC as a very good value for it's price.  OR SQ/price ratio.  I have not tried super expensive DACs or own any so, I cannot comment how good a DAC can get.  
  
 I want to comment that I am speculating that it is the chip my ears may like as the ODAC is using ESS 9023 chip, whereas other DAPs/DACs I own do not.  To me the ESS implentation sounds to have most details and natural tones.  I want to try a more higher end DAC that utilizes the newer 9018 to see how much it scales.  I will write back if I do.
  
 I read in another forum that 9023 is $2 each and the designer went for the cheapest components.  The new 9018 is said to be $65 a chip, so I'm curious how it fares.  I believe it's implemented on several DAPs out on the market now.
  
 Now I believe DAC is very important in the signal path.


----------



## Solrighal

I'm in much the same boat. I'm happy the O2 is doing all it needs to but I'm not sure about the ODAC because, like you, I have no basis for comparison.


----------



## firev1

I remembered seeing stuff like "digital signals don't distort" yada yada. Fact: ODAC is not completely immune to noisy power supplies. I can get hold of more rigs to demonstrate it but I believe the fact that ODAC has poorish PSRR to be pretty conclusive regardless of setup. Something like the Doodlebug would be a great product with the ODAC. What happened on the blog was the lack of detailing in the test chain he used for the ODAC, if you are on battery all the time, its gonna work but what if you are using PC? or your laptop's usb is BS? or your monitor's hdmi grounds are introducing crud(it may happen)?


----------



## SilverEars

firev1 said:


> I remembered seeing stuff like "digital signals don't distort" yada yada. Fact: ODAC is not completely immune to noisy power supplies. I can get hold of more rigs to demonstrate it but I believe the fact that ODAC has poorish PSRR to be pretty conclusive regardless of setup. Something like the Doodlebug would be a great product with the ODAC.


 
 This is at audible level?  I guess usb carries lots of noise.  Have you tried without AC power?  Also, what is doodlebug?  Linear-PS?


----------



## firev1

silverears said:


> This is at audible level?  I guess usb carries lots of noise.  Have you tried without AC power?  Also, what is doodlebug?  Linear-PS?


 
 This http://www.head-fi.org/t/703334/doodlebug-usb-isolator Yes I have tried without AC power and and rigs I'm using have sufficiently clean usb power which measures roughly the same(or a little worse at most) as the below graph. (take note that the graphs are not indicative of the ODAC's true performance as it exceeds the ADC). The signal to noise on rough calculation is approximately -87dbFS  which would be pretty audible.
  
 Edit: Tested with my Fujitsu laptop(AC in situation) isolating the ADC side, got pretty clean results with the ODAC. Still got audibly better results as testing was done with monitor disconnected, my monitor is one of those which somehow 'dirties' the USB ground.


----------



## adydula

I  have tested with many other dacs and its very hard to hear any real world difference to me.
  
 Being a purist I want the cleanest power for the dac and amp.
  
 I would not even think of using a pc with a crappy USB power source???
  
 A.


----------



## mcandmar

firev1 said:


> This http://www.head-fi.org/t/703334/doodlebug-usb-isolator Yes I have tried without AC power and and rigs I'm using have sufficiently clean usb power which measures roughly the same(or a little worse at most) as the below graph. (take note that the graphs are not indicative of the ODAC's true performance as it exceeds the ADC). The signal to noise on rough calculation is approximately -87dbFS  which would be pretty audible.
> 
> Edit: Tested with my Fujitsu laptop(AC in situation) isolating the ADC side, got pretty clean results with the ODAC. Still got audibly better results as testing was done with monitor disconnected, my monitor is one of those which somehow 'dirties' the USB ground.


 
  
 I have experience similar issues with HDMI connections injecting noise back over the ground line.  All i have to is wave my oscilloscope probe near my monitor and it picks up its switching power supply loud and clear.
  
 I have just built and tested the Doodlbug along side my own Isolating supply and it performs very well indeed, certainly a lot cheaper and neater than my implementation. See pics of finished prototype here http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/872679/beezar/
  
 The last image is my current experiment/project, replacing the AC side of my Linear supply with a UPS charging circuit and a sealed lead acid battery. Idea being i will end up with a battery>regulator>isolator>DAC.


----------



## SilverEars

firev1 said:


> This http://www.head-fi.org/t/703334/doodlebug-usb-isolator Yes I have tried without AC power and and rigs I'm using have sufficiently clean usb power which measures roughly the same(or a little worse at most) as the below graph. (take note that the graphs are not indicative of the ODAC's true performance as it exceeds the ADC). The signal to noise on rough calculation is approximately -87dbFS  which would be pretty audible.
> 
> Edit: Tested with my Fujitsu laptop(AC in situation) isolating the ADC side, got pretty clean results with the ODAC. Still got audibly better results as testing was done with monitor disconnected, my monitor is one of those which somehow 'dirties' the USB ground.


 
 How much noise is caused by the monitor relative to the power supply?  It would be nice to find out.  The noise I'm seeing on the graph, is that harmonics?  Or is it from something that output high frequencies?  Wonder how the noise is be created in the power line. I guess the usb line is picking up all the high frequency noise of the circuit around it.  I wonder what would happen if you use a better shielded USB cable, and also USB cable with ferrite bead?


----------



## adydula

The ODAC has circuitry that helps eliminate this noise essentially.....yes using a USB cable with a ferrite bead will help reduce, attenuate or eliminate an HF being indiuced or picked up etc...
  
 Remember that all the specs and plots on the designers site were done with "dirty pc usb" power....and it still exceeds what is defined by the designer to be transparent and world class....
  
 I took a DC supply, a Lamda commercial instrument supply highly regulated and filtered and did blind listening tests and could NOT hear any difference that was noteable.
  
 Again the neat thing about the ODAC is that it performs so well with a variety of PC's...I have used, Gateway, Acer, Lenovo, IBM, Home DIY ASUS, EVGA etc...all work well with the ODAC. Also USB 2 vs USB 2. Your DC power has to be realy crappy to make a real difference and if its that bad then hey....get rid of the crappy pc.
  
 A.


----------



## firev1

I'm at least half sure that a battery may be overkill but hey  have fun! I would love to do battery power electronics as well. Here is ground pollution from my VGA monitor, not sure about how newer monitors would work. Rig this time is Monitor >Fujitsu Lifebook-> ODAC->ADC-> Adum4160 isolator-> Lifebook. Taking out the monitor gives me a clean spectrum.
  
 Maybe the rigs you have been using are cleaner then most but I find that its not the case with some of us which may explain some's negative experiences with the ODAC.Just making a Y cable to inject extra power may not get you the results you really want as you are really concerned with common mode noise which though the ODAC does an okay job, it won't withstand ground loops. Well, whether you believe me ain't my problem so YMMV. 
  
 The really bad pollution you see in the previous graph comes from a small switch mode PSU for the Acer. Coupled with the fact that the usb port happens to be exceptionally close to the power input and bam, distortion. In desktops this may come from power built PSUs or you have some crazy graphics(or monitors) or some crappy fans or whatever polluting your usb.


----------



## mcandmar

"battery may be overkill", nah there is no such thing as overkill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 One interesting observation i found with USB noise is that my desktop machine i built for gaming with a high end motherboard, power supply, video card, and i7 is actually much noisier than a simple office PC or my HP laptop running off battery. So it seems the more simple the machine with the less going on inside the better, not the machine with the high end parts inside.


----------



## adydula

So are you able to hear any of this while your listening with a set of sensitive headphones or not?
  
 Alex


----------



## mcandmar

Absolutely, less distortion and a lower noise floor is always noticeable using headphones or speakers.


----------



## adydula

hmmm....ok firev1 what do you hear??
  
 I don't think it necessarily correlates to a simple machine or a system with high end parts...I have been in the PC business since day 1 with IBM and Lenovo.
 In development etc...seen LOTS of stuff that I can not still talk about.
  
 That said...if you have a crappy USB power supply its most likely due to poor design or rather a poor mechanical setup or design.
  
 The way things are routed and wired can make a difference.
  
 There is a lot of HF inside a PC chassis but most of can be trapped or eliminated and even if the noise level is still there it can be attenuated with filtering in the external device and or cables...again if done correctly.
  
 Being a purist I have only the needed amount of stuff going or attached to a system while listening.
  
 You might want to try HDMI cables etc all with ferrite beads if yours doesn't already have them...
  
 A.


----------



## firev1

For me subjectively, its always a blacker background ,less "thickness" from distortion in the sound and more importantly, I get less listening fatigue. For example comparing this the UD110mk2, the ODAC to me sounded more similar then different from the UD110mk2 before placing in the isolator. Also it does not help that I have more experience with the ODAC losing lock easily over time or from changing sampling rates. All my relevant data cables tend to have ferrite beads installed, for my VGA monitor,.its on both ends.


----------



## adydula

Thanks for the fast reply...Interesting, I haven't seen any unlocking or changing or changing sample rates. This is usually setup in the OS, the ODAC doesn't have a separate driver, its 24/96.
  
 I do have another vendors dac with sample rate lights still 24/96 and can change the rates from within the OS playback properties area in WIN 7 Pro. Never saw the sample rates change other than when I went in and changed them in the OS.
  
 If I were experiencing these kinds of dramatic changes or intermittents I would look at my setup very carefully or get another ODAC and make sure its indeed not defective.
  
 All the best
 Alex


----------



## firev1

The results of course are repeatable with not just the ODAC but other usb DACs I have on hand like the measurement interface and the UD110mk2. Its just that the O2 has the most gain in supply isolation. Also the point of this exercise was to show that isolation can help out those whose chain may be susceptible to these faults but are unable to change out whole components to get a cleaner supply. The Lifebook without the VGA connected monitor is pretty clean and gets me the results that are expected. Mcandmar's experience with high speed PC and uber graphics matches those of some users I know.
  
 It is also pleasing to note though that the production ODACs are measure better then the prototype on Voldemort's site.


----------



## mcandmar

adydula said:


> Thanks for the fast reply...Interesting, I haven't seen any unlocking or changing or changing sample rates. This is usually setup in the OS, the ODAC doesn't have a separate driver, its 24/96.
> 
> I do have another vendors dac with sample rate lights still 24/96 and can change the rates from within the OS playback properties area in WIN 7 Pro. Never saw the sample rates change other than when I went in and changed them in the OS.


 
  
 That is normal because the windows mixer upsamples or downsamples whatever you are playing to match that setting, in your case 24/96.  For the best possible quality you want to by pass the windows mixer using a plugin like wasapi in Foobar, that way the dac with switch bit depth and sample rate to match the material you are playing, i.e. no up/down re sampling of the original material.


----------



## adydula

Agree that WASAPI is all that I use...
  
 A.


----------



## sotto123

The ODAC is driving me crazy. It jitters far too much - like every time I load a new webpage. Is there anything that can be done? Actually, I don't even know if that is the correct term. The music skips for a split second - clipping?


----------



## Solrighal

What is the ODAC connected to and in what way?


----------



## sotto123

Foobar2000 > ODAC > O2 > LCD2. I've also got the chip needed for my wireless mouse to work in one of the USB ports.


----------



## adydula

Its not the ODAC......many people have these pops and clicks with many dacs like the HRT in the post below...
  
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593826/hrt-headstreamer-wasapi-woes-in-foobar
  
 Its ususally buffers settngs in the player...
  
 "It works perfectly in Foobar as long as you stick to direct sound and lets Windows manage the sample rate. But using WASAPI or Asio4All screws everything royally over."
  
 Try a different player like JRiver they have a demo version.
  
 Note it may also be your USB interface as well, try an external USB hub...does that help at all?
  
 Take out the wireless USB mouse chip...try to isolate what is happening.
  
 Alex


----------



## Solrighal

I'd bet it's an underpowered USB stage.


----------



## HaVoC-28

And what about an usb isolator ?


----------



## adydula

Could be, I have experienced pops and clicks with every dac I have tried on a variety of pc's.
  
 Even when I was able to adjust buffers in the player to a lower millisecond setting and get one dac glitch free I found that
 another dac of a different type / brand could have similar issues and require an adjustment here.....
  
 In wose cases and multiple USB devices attached its often necessary to remove all USB devices or use a separate usb port and or hub.
  
 A.


----------



## Solrighal

I've never had a problem with my Mac & ODAC.


----------



## adydula

That's a good thing!!!
  
 Alex


----------



## SilverEars

I had a really ghetto, but powerful laptop back in the days (anybody recall emachines?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and headphone out was a disaster.  You can hear all kinds of noise, it was near the monitor.  The problem with laptops is that usb line or circuitry is probably unshielded and near sources that induces emi.  
  
 I think the desktop should be tried also since there could be better isolation.  I use a desktop.  That is really odd that that measurements are showing noise from power line.  Does the ODAC have it's own regulator and filters or is it relying on USB power coming from the computer to be clean enough?
  
 What I'm trying to understand is why do some dedicated DACs have descrete components?  If you look at the bigger DACs they use big parts, and it has it's own toroidal transformer.  I guess the descret parts willl eat up more power, and wondering if that's the reason for toroids.  Are toroids used for linear power supplies?  What makes the power supplies utilizing toroids makes them special, or why is it being utilized in the DAC?  For what purpose?
  
 And, I thought the purpose of external soundcards or DACs were to isolate from internal noise, and to find out power supply noise is there.


----------



## SilverEars

One reason I can think of dedicated amp having it's own power supply with toroids and etc.. is basically what we are talking about here, decrease PS noise.
  
 I doubt that the ODAC has additional power conditionial section, I think it's like any other usb components that rely on the 5V to be clean enough.


----------



## adydula

silverears....you really need to go to the designers blog, cant post links here and read all the design information that is published there.
  
 Your questions are answered there in "spades".....
  
 Take the time to read all the ODAC pieces....
  
 Your assumptions are not entirely correct.
  
 Alex


----------



## firev1

adydula said:


> Its not the ODAC......many people have these pops and clicks with many dacs like the HRT in the post below...
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593826/hrt-headstreamer-wasapi-woes-in-foobar
> ...


 
 On Jriver 19, WASAPI of course, Directsound royally screws you over with the sample rate converter, it will convert everything to whatever you set on control panel, not exactly the idea of bit-perfect playback. Yes check them buffer settings, change from Wasapi Event to Push or whatever neccessary. Also what is the computer/laptop like? 
  
  


silverears said:


> I had a really ghetto, but powerful laptop back in the days (anybody recall emachines?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah but most designers do not take into account common mode noise because of it is there sometimes and other times it just isn't. Dedicated DACs use toroids in their power supplies mainly because of lesser EMI contaiminating the analog circuitry of the DAC,
  
 Unfortunately or fortunately enough, I'm able to measure EMI from non toroidial transformers affecting various D/A or A/D devices I have at my disposal including the ODAC. My situation with this is more because I'm using a receiver to drive speakers and headphones though I imagine that(anyone can measure?) emissions from today's switching supplies used in desktops in conjunction in other circuitry may induce distortion as well.


----------



## sotto123

adydula said:


> Its not the ODAC......many people have these pops and clicks with many dacs like the HRT in the post below...
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593826/hrt-headstreamer-wasapi-woes-in-foobar
> ...


 

 Thanks. Increasing the buffer length seems to have fixed it.


----------



## mcandmar

sotto123 said:


> The ODAC is driving me crazy. It jitters far too much - like every time I load a new webpage. Is there anything that can be done? Actually, I don't even know if that is the correct term. The music skips for a split second - clipping?


 
  
 The DAC is being starved of data, usually caused by something else hogging cpu time on the computer, or your machine is just plain out of available physical memory to buffer the data.  Its 100% not the DAC's fault.


----------



## SilverEars

sotto123 said:


> The ODAC is driving me crazy. It jitters far too much - like every time I load a new webpage. Is there anything that can be done? Actually, I don't even know if that is the correct term. The music skips for a split second - clipping?


 
 If you don't have enough ram, try adding ram.


----------



## mcandmar

silverears said:


> One reason I can think of dedicated amp having it's own power supply with toroids and etc.. is basically what we are talking about here, decrease PS noise.
> 
> I doubt that the ODAC has additional power conditionial section, I think it's like any other usb components that rely on the 5V to be clean enough.


 
  
 Thats the main difference with more expensive DAC's are the dedicated power supply's, specifically separated digital and analog supplies.
  
 You are absolutely right about the ODAC, its implemented as per the datasheet for the components and nothing more, hence the lost cost.


----------



## SilverEars

Ok, regarding the noisy usb power line, I ran across this product.
  
 http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iPurifier.html
  
 Here is the discussion on it
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/683778/350cad-herus-asynchronous-usb-audio-2-0-24bit-352-8ks-s-dxd-and-dsd64-128-2-4vrms-headphone-dac/135
  

  
 At the science threads we think it's nothing more that L/C filter with choke.  So, I think you just have to filter the usb power line since there will be no signal going through the power lines.  Some USB cables come with choke, not sure if that will filter out all that noise.


----------



## mcandmar

One of my pet hates is fancy marketing blurb spewing out techno babble without actually telling you whats inside a product and how it works. The fact the notes section brings you to facebook just kills all credibility for me. It may work great, or it may just be a LED in a shiny box, who knows.


----------



## adydula

Does this device make your situation sound better?
 Any more issues of any kind??
  
 Alex


----------



## mcandmar

Here is an interesting issue i'm not having any success finding a way around, my ODAC has been hooked up to my machine in the same USB port forever.   I tried to plug it into another port today and Windows detects it, tries to install a UAC1 device and fails.  My motherboard has 10 USB ports on the back panel and 2 on the front of the case split between three different USB controllers and it will only work in the port it has always been connected to.  Makes no sense so it has to be a Windows/Driver issue.
  
 Has any body had this?  I'm using 8.1 Pro x64.


----------



## adydula

Try uninstalling the USB stuff in device manager, reboot and try again.
  
 Alex


----------



## mcandmar

Its not that simple i'm afraid.  Of the four USB dacs i have to hand three of them have the same issue, and one of them works perfectly in every port.  It seems Microsoft have broken something in 8.1 when implementing the USB3 driver stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    ...i'll update progress as i make any.


----------



## adydula

Its really easy to uninstall a USB device in device manager and then reboot with only the ODAC connected etc and let the OS reinstall etc....
 The ODAC is not a USB 3.0 device....but I have one connected via a 3.0 port and it is recognized ok, but its win 7 pro 64 bits...
  
 Has it ever worked? Maybe try a system restore back to before the 8.1?
  
 Alex


----------



## JakeJack_2008

mikew said:


> Got my Odac module in from JDS Labs, installed into my O2. Some brief thoughts :
> 
> Clean clean clean
> non-offensive treble, but great resolution
> ...


 
  
 Hi All,
  
 From the above:
  
 "24 bit, *with close to 20 bit resolution* ~ software volume control becomes viable without loss of detail."
  
 This confuses
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 me. What does it mean? Is my JDS Labs  ODAC a* 24*-bit or merely a *20*-bit dac unit?
  
 I remember that someone  on this site explained in very technical terms - I can't find it - that the ODAC was a 20-bit dac unit.


----------



## MaciekN

"Merely" 20 bits of resolution could kill you. 13 or 14 is more than enough. 24 bit DAC can process 24 bit word data lenght, this 20 bit refers to noise floor - if processing 24 bit data it can achieve "only" 20 bits of accuracy (the rest is covered by noise, although it has to be mentioned that one would have to apply crazy gain to make this noise disturbing). You should check sound science forum, there is a thread explaining 16 vs 24 bit.
  
 Btw does anyone remember what is the resolution of vinyl discsc translated into bits? Was it something like 10?


----------



## SilverEars

Anybody have pupDAC also?  How do they compare?


----------



## adydula

The only thing I found on this is:
  
 ENOB stands for Effective Number of Bits and is another measure of a DAC’s performance. No 24 (or 32) bit audio DAC can achieve true 24 bit performance, In fact, 20 ENOB is generally considered the “Holy Grail” of real world DAC performance. The ODAC is just under 19 ENOB and the Benchmark, even referenced to its full 7+ volt maximum output, is 19.3 ENOB. The FiiO E10, even in 24 bit mode, is only 16.2 ENOB.
  
 A.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

adydula said:


> The only thing I found on this is:
> 
> ENOB stands for Effective Number of Bits and is another measure of a DAC’s performance. No 24 (or 32) bit audio DAC can achieve true 24 bit performance, In fact, 20 ENOB is generally considered the “Holy Grail” of real world DAC performance. The ODAC is just under 19 ENOB and the Benchmark, even referenced to its full 7+ volt maximum output, is 19.3 ENOB. The FiiO E10, even in 24 bit mode, is only 16.2 ENOB.
> 
> A.


 
  
 Thanx, this ENOB explains a lot. Let me ask a naive question. Does ODAC have a 24-bit DAC *chip*?
 Assume it does, then what kind of noise is causing the loss of about 5 bits: generated by the ODAC's  _electric power circuitry_ implementation and parts, ... or some other noise/distortion ... ? - Just curious, and that's all.


----------



## RonO

ODAC uses  ESS Sabre ES9023 as the DAC chip. Spec sheet here: http://www.esstech.com/PDF/ES9023%20PB%20Rev%200.2aPB%20110117.pdf  It's a 24 bit DAC.


----------



## MaciekN

Every electrical component would have it's own noise but in practice, as you see noise specified often below -100dB it's usually a non-issue. Noise can also be induced by poor PCB layout (bascially electromagnetic interference between copper traces, or some capacitance between signal/power trace and ground), resistors of very high value also produce noise... this stuff is important in the design process.
  
 When you are buying a ready-made unit all you care about is its total noise performance, which in most modern units is often more than acceptable.
  
 You also need to look at this loss of 5 bits in some perspective - not every bit is equally important in digital to analog conversion, as every consecutive bit represents how the volume of the signal changes relative to the bit before, and there is a finite difference in volume that can be achieved (set by the number of bits that the signal was recorded in), any "error" (be it from noise, jitter, or else) in the first bit scews the whole package. If you get the last bit wrong then it's possibly not even audible (meaning the change of volume as a consequence of conversion error).
  
 Now, 16 bits represents a dyncamic range of 96 dB if I remember correctly, this is the difference in volume achievable between first and last bit, with 24 bits it can be even more (144 dB). So a 24 bit DAC with 20 ENOB can convert 24 bit digital signal to analog (meaning it will accept data in packages of 24 bits) but the maximum difference between the loudest and the lowest (in volume) signal can "only" be 20 bit, so about 120 dB, any signal that is lower in volume will be buried in the overall noise of the circuit.
  
 To put this into perspective a 100 dB signal would permanently damage your hearing, as far as I remember prolonged exposure to anything above 80 dB will have permanent negative consequences on your hearing. There were some studies to determine what is the dynamic range of human hearing and 16 bit standard for A/D conversion was assumed with some headroom included.


----------



## jseaber

jakejack_2008 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> From the above:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bitrate dictates the noise floor. There's a point at which higher bitrates physically cannot realize improvements to the noise floor. In a measurement sense, 32-bit DACs top out somewhere near 20-bit performance, just like 24-bit DACs.
  
 In other words, 32-bit performance is all marketing. You'll never hear a digital noise floor better than ~20bit, despite its theoretically higher performance.
  
 ODAC is a 24-bit DAC. Just keep in mind that 24-bit and 32-bit performance is purely theoretical.


----------



## adydula

Here's a good article on all this:
  
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
  
 Enjoy...
  
 Alex


----------



## JakeJack_2008

tdockweiler said:


> I think i've gotten this ODAC issue fixed. You know what's funny?
> Thanks to this ODAC i've discovered 3 issues with my setup that i've corrected.
> 
> First, it turns out that the ODAC needs a ton of power from a USB port or so it seems. This probably would not work on my laptop without a powered usb hub.
> ...


 
  
 I am very glad that I've found your post. Very informative.
 The most important for me is this:

  


> Next, at one point I had plugged my amp into my $40 Belkin *Surge Protector with filters*. My first reaction was something like "Ah Hah! There's my nice and full mids".
> Only awhile later did I realize *it was bloating the bass slightly* with my DJ100 and HD-580. *Even the soundstage seemed smaller.* Since the Q701 is not super bassy,
> it's sound wasn't changed as much it seems.
> I guess the DJ100 with ODAC is good to analyze any power issues
> ...


 
  
  
 I am not interested in any surge protector (with filters) any more.
  
 Thanx.


----------



## adydula

The  ODAC will work just fine on 98% of the modern day PC and Laptops out there.....IT was designed to run on USB power...all the measurements were done on PC USB power....dirty or not.
  
 I forget where I posted this but my 2 ODACS have been measured for current draw and it was something like 50 milliamps of current (1/4 watt or so).......hardly taxing USB power.
  
 Its not a power hungry device at all.
  
 A.


----------



## JakeJack_2008

jseaber said:


> NwAvGuy claims ODAC needs just *125mA *of the allotted 500mA current available to an enumerated USB 2.0 device. Unless his estimate is way off, power problems are due to out of spec USB ports. Hopefully a USB 3.0 port would provide a steadier stream of current, even though USB 2.0 ports really should be adequate. I'm disappointed to know this is even a concern. Will point NwAvGuy and Yoyodyne this direction.


 
  
  
 So is it *50 *mA or *125* mA?  
  
 Sorry for being 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 curious.


----------



## adydula

Well, the max current I measured was 50.5 milliamps, connected to the O2 Amp and not connected to the amp. The current draw did not change at all with volume changes on the amp.
  
 The voltage was 5.03 vdc before the ODAC was powered and 5.03 with the ODAC powered.
  
 The PC was an older gateway desktop tower with a USB 2.0 port.
  
 The USB power was not even phased with this minmal load.
  
 100 ma is the unit spec for a single USB port for 2.0.
  
 Alex


----------



## PiNa.cz

David and Goliath 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was wondering how the ODAC sounds after reading all the praise that some Head-Fi members had given it so I went ahead and bought one with RCA outputs from Walter (top notch service, highly recommended). What a nice surprise, it sounds really good. Well, not on par with the Reference's DAC with 4x PCM1704UK DAC chips but you probably can't buy anything better at this price level.


----------



## HaVoC-28

pina.cz said:


> David and Goliath
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Comparison done with a strict volume matching right ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 A Xonar DX/D1 is cheaper and perform as good as ODAC . But you have to deal with C-Media / Asus Driver, and it's an internal sound card , so not as flexible as ODAC .


----------



## PiNa.cz

havoc-28 said:


> Comparison done with a strict volume matching right ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I did only very brief comparison so far.
 Tried to match volume for both as much as I could.
 I was not interested in soundcards as I wanted an external DAC with ESS chip to be plugged into Reference's input for comparative listening.
 For my purposes the ODAC was the one


----------



## nick_charles

maciekn said:


> Btw does anyone remember what is the resolution of vinyl discsc translated into bits? Was it something like 10?


 
  
 About 12 - 13 averaged across 20Hz - 20 KHz but  less below 400 hz ! where it can be under 10 bits ...


----------



## richbass

Has anyone compared odac with any of the audio-gd dacs ? within $500 range specifically. Thanks.


----------



## HaVoC-28

richbass said:


> Has anyone compared odac with any of the audio-gd dacs ? within $500 range specifically. Thanks.


 
  
 Compared it when i had SPL Auditor as amp and Beyer T1 as can . 
  
 NFB-2/17.32 vs ODAC at level mached (dbmeter + voltmeter) => the same 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
  
  
  
 (Without volume matching NFB17.32 (XLR out)  > NFB17.32 (RCA Out) = NFB-2  > ODAC  , (but it don't matter at all , it just show , that the "louder" DAC wins , or the most powerfull output wins  ) , level match it , and every well built dac will sound the same
  
 At least it's what i experienced  , i haded also a Pioneer DVD player to the comparison (based on PCM1754 DAC + OPA4580) and again after level matching , it sounded exactly the same .
  
 Now i don't care about DACs , i just use one that feel my needs , currently ODAC do what i want so i prefer to  play with headphones  , but it's just my experiences , you could experiment something totaly opposite then just try by yourself ? best thing to do , try and learn  .


----------



## diaBoliQu3

I wondering if different vendor will make different sound for ODAC? Let's say JDS, Epiphany, Emerald Physics, and DiY version?


----------



## HaVoC-28

diaboliqu3 said:


> I wondering if different vendor will make different sound for ODAC? Let's say JDS, Epiphany, Emerald Physics, and DiY version?


 
  
 No they all get the same board from yoyodine . They just mount it in a case .


----------



## diaBoliQu3

havoc-28 said:


> No they all get the same board from yoyodine . They just mount it in a case .


 

 So it's better to get the cheapest version? In my case, Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC is cheaper.
  
 BTW regarding UAC1 and UAC2, is there any other different other than 24/96 and 24/192? Because price wise, about $100 different:
 http://www.emeraldphysics.com/search/label/Digital%20to%20Analog%20Converters


----------



## Solrighal

Be aware that some models do offer different input & output socketry. Otherwise, they all sound the same. Perfect.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

solrighal said:


> Be aware that some models do offer different input & output socketry. Otherwise, they all sound the same. Perfect.


 

 What you mean socketry? Is it the RCA, 3.5mm etc? I'm looking at RCA output... Both JDS and Epiphany producing RCA output.


----------



## Solrighal

Yeah, like that. My O2 has it's RCA input on the back panel, along with its power input. It also has RCA outputs on the rear panel and uses a 6.3mm output on the front. 

Head'n'Hifi have various versions.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

solrighal said:


> Yeah, like that. My O2 has it's RCA input on the back panel, along with its power input. It also has RCA outputs on the rear panel and uses a 6.3mm output on the front.
> 
> Head'n'Hifi have various versions.


 
 I see... But based from your signature you doesn't keep O2 anymore. Not your cup of tea?
  
 And finally, which one do you think a better buy? JDS, Epiphany Acoustics or Emerald Physic version of ODAC? Because while searching for affordable hifi DAC, I was lead to Emerald Physic Dac1/ Dac2. After further search, it's based on ODAC but Dac2 is UAC2 based thus allowing asynchronous 24/192 while Dac1 only support 24/96 like other version of ODAC. Will make purchase ASAP while awaiting for my Modi.


----------



## Solrighal

My signature? I'm on mobile so I'm not sure what you mean by my sig but my profile is up to date. Anyway, I love my O2.its by far the best purchase in this hobby I've made to date and it pairs very well with my HD 650's. 

As for those manufacturers well, I honestly don't know. I'd just buy the one which is closest to you, in case import taxes are important.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

solrighal said:


> My signature? I'm on mobile so I'm not sure what you mean by my sig but my profile is up to date. Anyway, I love my O2.its by far the best purchase in this hobby I've made to date and it pairs very well with my HD 650's.
> 
> As for those manufacturers well, I honestly don't know. I'd just buy the one which is closest to you, in case import taxes are important.


 
 Emerald Physic is the closest one but significant price hike.
  
 What I mean about your sig is:
 FLAC > Foobar2000 > ASIO > M-Audio 2496 > Linn Black > Marantz PM6004 > Mogami 3103 > Dali Zensor 1 > Shure SRH840

 FLAC > Cowon iAudio D2 > Sennheiser PX100-II


----------



## Solrighal

Ah, right. Sorry. That doesn't show when I'm on my mobile. It just goes to show how long it's been since I accessed this site from a PC. I'll get right on that.

Edit - fixed.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

Order placed.  Either it's Modi or Odac that will be pair with my Bottlehead Crack or Sansui AU555 A.


----------



## Solrighal

Maybe I missed it but what headphones are you using?


----------



## diaBoliQu3

solrighal said:


> Maybe I missed it but what headphones are you using?


 
 Plan is Modi/ E-DAC > Crack> HD600.  Brother to your HD650.  Any other different for ODAC XL from ordinary ODAC?


----------



## Solrighal

The HD 600 will pair nicely with the Crack. 

The ODAC XL has all ports on the rear. That's the USB input as well as RCA and 3.5mm outputs.


----------



## jasonb

Still loving my ODAC. It has been getting used to feed a speaker amp lately instead of headphones, but it still continues to impress me.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

jasonb said:


> Still loving my ODAC. It has been getting used to feed a speaker amp lately instead of headphones, but it still continues to impress me.


 
 Yup, plan to use E-DAC for hifi setup too:
 E-DAC> Sansui AU-555A> B&W 685
  
 As for head-fi:
 Modi> BH Crack> Senn HD600.


----------



## Paspasero

Can anyone help me out. My odac seems to have a weird problem. Sometimes when I start listening I will hear static and rustling over the notes. However when I unplug and replug my odac, it goes away and becomes clear again. Not really sure what could be causing it. I am just using the stock usb cable straight into my computer.


----------



## .Sup

paspasero said:


> Can anyone help me out. My odac seems to have a weird problem. Sometimes when I start listening I will hear static and rustling over the notes. However when I unplug and replug my odac, it goes away and becomes clear again. Not really sure what could be causing it. I am just using the stock usb cable straight into my computer.



Do you have many stuff plugged to your pc? Is it a laptop? Sounds to me like too many devices are draining power and Odac doesn't get enough of it.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

And make sure try plug in directly to your machine directly instead of USB port extensions.


----------



## Paspasero

.sup said:


> Do you have many stuff plugged to your pc? Is it a laptop? Sounds to me like too many devices are draining power and Odac doesn't get enough of it.


 
 Nope it is a desktop, and I have just a keyboard, mouse, and the ODAC plugged into it.
  


diaboliqu3 said:


> And make sure try plug in directly to your machine directly instead of USB port extensions.


 
 It is plugged into a USB 3.0 port on the motherboard of my desktop.


----------



## diaBoliQu3

paspasero said:


> Nope it is a desktop, and I have just a keyboard, mouse, and the ODAC plugged into it.
> 
> It is plugged into a USB 3.0 port on the motherboard of my desktop.


 

 Ah, somehow in my experience USB 3.0 always troublesome due to driver etc, especially after Windows update. BTW, have you reinstall driver etc? I think if you already troubleshoot from software and cable side but the problem still persist, maybe it's the DAC itself.


----------



## Solrighal

There were certainly people having problems with USB 3 on Windows machine a while back. It works fine on my USB 3 equipped Mac mini.


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

Has anyone tried the ODAC with an iPhone 6 or iPad Air 2 and Lightning-to-USB connector? Other DACs with higher power draw seem to work without a USB hub but not sure if the ODAC does.
  
 Also, I'm looking for something identical to the ODAC in performance (ie audibly transparent) but with optical input. Any recommendations? I'm pretty set on the O2 amp but if there is an amp / DAC combo that offers equivalent performance I'd be willing to go for that. Otherwise I was thinking the O2 + ODAC + some other DAC with optical support or the O2 plus a DAC with both optical and USB inputs. Just hard to find anything that has as much objective info about it as the O2 / ODAC combo.
  
 EDIT: Also, it's for use with IEMs so I need a very low noise floor like the O2 has.


----------



## mchang

logicaldisconnect said:


> Has anyone tried the ODAC with an iPhone 6 or iPad Air 2 and Lightning-to-USB connector? Other DACs with higher power draw seem to work without a USB hub but not sure if the ODAC does.




Those devices require a hub. The hub doesn't have to be powered, though. I'm using a normally powered 4-port hub, but not plugging it in. 
Read and try this: http://blog.jdslabs.com/?p=838


----------



## SilverEars

Anybody tried DoodleBug usb isolator yet?  If so, please let us know if there are any differences.


----------



## ClieOS

silverears said:


> Anybody tried DoodleBug usb isolator yet?  If so, please let us know if there are any differences.


 
  
 Well, not DoodleBug but I have a few USB isolator, and they are based mostly the same design as DoodleBug. Can't say I hear any real difference with or without them with ODAC. However, I do want to add that my PC has a pretty clean USB to begin with.


----------



## paconavarro

About a week ago my ODAC started showing in Fidelia and Audio Devices both in my MacBookPro and iMac as _Unknown USB Audio Device_, the ODAC works flawless, no issues with the sound or anything else than the name on the computer...
  
 Somebody have the same behavior?
  
 Happy 2015


----------



## OperatorPerry

Question,
  
 Should I be using a USB cable with a ferrite core to connect my ODAC?  And if so, are the USB cables with ferrite cores from Monoprice fine?  I need a 10ft cable, and I connect my ODAC to my Behringer A500 speaker amplifier.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## RonO

I've used mine both with and without the ferrite core USB cables, usually 1 meter cable.  A couple of years ago when I got my ODAC, JDS was shipping them with a Monoprice Ferrite core cable, those always worked fine for me.


----------



## razorpakk

My new odac stops working with 96khz files, the songs last a few seconds and the sounds quickly fades away.
 Wasapi set in event mode in Foobar, windows set with 24/96 and enhancements disabled.
  
 P.S. Same thing happens in push mode. Also when I change Usb port (tried unplugging everything but the odac and mouse, problem persists).
 My board is an Asus Z87 Pro 
  
 Well never mind, I've decided to return the unit when I realized I can buy the Modi2 in the uk.


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Guys any good cheap usb isolators for odac ?


----------



## numbercube

Olimex USB-ISO for 30 bucks. Removes my laptop's noise completely.


----------



## chromicant

Posted my message in the Help section (http://www.head-fi.org/t/754648/odac-troubleshooting), but got pointed to here. For the full bit of info, please read the aforementioned link.
  
 In short, I'm noticing quite a bit of noise (hissy/fuzzy - not quite the static from an untuned radio, but close) from the ODAC + C5 amp after plugging in the ODAC. I've tracked it down to the ODAC. Also tried with two different USB cables. Also, the noise is heard on my desktop (completely different internals), and even checked the ODAC PCB board. No smell of escaped magic smoke from the board either. It still plays audio - but the noise!
  
 I don't ever remember this on the ODAC before (but again, my memory is shot - so may never have noticed), so my question is:
  
 1) Have people heard this before? On searching, I've see some references here and there but no real conclusions. I thought the ODAC had some internals to isolate itself from the computer. Would a USB isolator/power supply combo I'm seeing help alleviate this?
  
 2) I'm trying to find a powered USB hub - have people found this to work well with isolating the ODAC to prevent noise?
  
 3) Is my ODAC giving up the ghost? Is it time to look for new options? Not that it still plays sound - just with a #@$# hiss that has a faint click when things are silent - enough to drive me batty a bit.


----------



## gunnerwholelife

Guys I just remembered my PC has a SPDIF out.Can I connect my ODAC to it via a usb to spdif converter ?
@numbercube Can you give a short review of the isolator ? Does it add any colour to the sound ? And how long have you been using it ?


----------



## James-uk

gunnerwholelife said:


> Guys I just remembered my PC has a SPDIF out.Can I connect my ODAC to it via a usb to spdif converter ?
> @numbercube
> Can you give a short review of the isolator ? Does it add any colour to the sound ? And how long have you been using it ?




Why would you do that ? Just use usb.


----------



## HaVoC-28

ODAC does not have SPDIF Input so you can't use a usb to spdif convertir to feed the ODAC , furthemore USB Isolators don't have any sound coloration unless they are faulty .
  
 At least the one that i tried didn't alter the sound at all ,the isolation worked as some times i could here some static noise when powering on / off my speacker receiver (not often ) . Also measurement where  better , without on rightmark =>
  
 (used an Asus essence STX for the rmaa loop) .
  
Summary 
Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB +0.03, -0.08
 Excellent
Noise level, dB (A) -108.0
 Excellent
Dynamic range, dB (A) 108.3
 Excellent
THD, % 0.0022
 Excellent
THD + Noise, dB (A) -89.9
 Good
IMD + Noise, % 0.0023
 Excellent
Stereo crosstalk, dB -95.9
 Excellent
IMD at 10 kHz, % 0.0024
 Excellent
*General performance*  
 *Excellent*

  
 As you see it's not as good as : http://rmaa.hege.li/ODAC.htm  or ODAC numbers provided by ODAC creator .
  
 With isolator => numbers were very close to the rightmark report listed on the link or ODAC official numbers . But a pity didn't kept the rmaa both from odac with isolator or the xonar STX that i used for this report .
  
 Also i don't use usb isolator anymore as i broke when moved to a new place . So  USB power can have an influence hon how ODAC perform (number wise)  but as i didn't hear any different with or without isolator , it don't matter very much , unless you have static noise or other major glitches .


----------



## numbercube

gunnerwholelife said:


> Guys I just remembered my PC has a SPDIF out.Can I connect my ODAC to it via a usb to spdif converter ?
> @numbercube Can you give a short review of the isolator ? Does it add any colour to the sound ? And how long have you been using it ?


 
 Sound is identical. I own the olimex for 4 months. Measurements (jitter and distortion) are identical too.


----------



## palermo

bump the thread
 anyone know about this ? cDAC designed by the same company as ODAC http://www.yoyodyneconsulting.ca/pages/cDAC+.html


----------



## ClieOS

palermo said:


> bump the thread
> anyone know about this ? cDAC designed by the same company as ODAC http://www.yoyodyneconsulting.ca/pages/cDAC+.html


 
  
 Seem like ODAC with USB isolation. Unless your USB power is particularly dirty, I don't think you will notice much difference. But if you need to use the USB DAC for measurement, USB isolation can be useful.


----------



## coli

Since I sold my ODAC+O2 already, I'd like to provide some review: This is one of the most soulless sounding DAC/headphone amp ever... I'm surprised people are paying $200+ for it.


----------



## Happytalk

Thi





coli said:


> Since I sold my ODAC+O2 already, I'd like to provide some review: This is one of the most soulless sounding DAC/headphone amp ever... I'm surprised people are paying $200+ for it.




This hobby is a journey. The Odac and O2 is an excellent starting point. Better than fiio, in my opinion. Differences are subtle. Yes, you can still hear music out of a sound card or dap headphone jack, but the subtle differences and upgrades add up to a sum that equals what amounts to a "soulful" or preferred set up for each individual. The Odac O2 is very useful, in my opinion, but it is generally agreed that there is room to improve if this is your only setup.


----------



## coli

happytalk said:


> Thi
> This hobby is a journey. The Odac and O2 is an excellent starting point. Better than fiio, in my opinion. Differences are subtle. Yes, you can still hear music out of a sound card or dap headphone jack, but the subtle differences and upgrades add up to a sum that equals what amounts to a "soulful" or preferred set up for each individual. The Odac O2 is very useful, in my opinion, but it is generally agreed that there is room to improve if this is your only setup.


 
  
 Okay looking back it may be partly due to the combo with a 600ohm headphone. The eye opener was when a "tour guide phone" (some android + headphone) sounded infinitely better...
  
 I'm on speaker setup now though.


----------



## Solrighal

coli said:


> Since I sold my ODAC+O2 already, I'd like to provide some review: This is one of the most soulless sounding DAC/headphone amp ever... I'm surprised people are paying $200+ for it.


 
  
 Thanks for your informative insight. How could so many people have got it so wrong?


----------



## coli

solrighal said:


> Thanks for your informative insight. How could so many people have got it so wrong?


 
 That really is a great mystery to me, I'm very happy to have sold it for $200+ though. It held it's value well.


----------



## schmalgausen

coli said:


> That really is a great mystery to me, I'm very happy to have sold it for $200+ though. It held it's value well.




But what is the alternative?


----------



## coli

schmalgausen said:


> But what is the alternative?


 
  
 Sorry, can't help you there. I'm on a totally different setup (speaker) now (very expensive one, still shopping for a new DAC)
  
 All I know was, an OEM Android phone on battery + el cheapo headphone sounded VERY GOOD to my ears....


----------



## schmalgausen

I have one ODAC in my home speakers setup and one ODAC+O2 in my office workplace to drive many headphones 8, 16, 60, 100, 250 ohms. And I don't know an alternative.

However, only ODAC module costs 100$ assembled. O2 costs only 30$ as DIY parts. And 2..3 hours of soldering.


----------



## ClieOS

coli said:


> This is one of the most soulless sounding DAC/headphone amp ever..


 
  
 That is exactly why people are buying them for. If they don't have a soul in the first place, then the audio devil's sweet-talk won't work.


----------



## OperatorPerry

If you don't recommend the ODAC, what DAC ($200-300) would you recommend to use with a speaker setup?


----------



## TomM

Short question...
  
 Has the USB Port of the Microsoft Surface 2 (RT Version, if matters) enough power to "drive" the ODAC (don't want a powered usb hub)?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## chongky

Tip for those who find the ODAC a bit thin in the mids. Don't upsample your ODAC to 24-bit/96Khz on Windows, instead go for 24-bit/44.1Khz if you're listening to CD quality material. Mids gain a hint of warmth and become more liquid, though at the expense of a smaller soundstage. Try it.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

coli said:


> This is one of the most soulless sounding DAC/headphone amp ever... I'm surprised people are paying $200+ for it.


 
  
Because that "soul" is usually coloration, like how you can get a Moon or Sun HDAM vs Earth. Imaging is fantastic on that for $200, although it's better heard on a speaker set-up than headphones. From what I remember it was nearly as precise as the Arcam CD72, still relatively "dry" by comparison but the Arcam isn't typically what people refer to as "musical," at least not in the same sense as for example a Rega Apollo (previous gen I listened to at the same time as the CD72 was too dark, Norah Jones sounded like she had a cold) or the really sweet midrange out of a Cayin CD50T or CD17 (CDT23 and the CD100i typically have a more "live" sound - all these tested on speakers with ribbon tweeters and my HD600).
 
------------
 
I think one of the problems for some, or at least with how the percussion and bass guitars are presented anyway, is that they are being imaged farther back. Whether speakers or headphones that sounds like they are "weaker," but the perception can be worse on headphones because you don't get a lot of perceptible depth in the soundstage to trade off vs how, in a treated room with a lot of space between the walls and the speakers,  it's a lot easier to hear it coming from farther away. Second is that even if it' a bit "weaker" in terms of dB at the ears, with speakers are moving air as they do and if you're using large towers you can feel the bass drum on your entire body, while a headphone is just outside the ears. Dynamic headphones already aren't flat (not that it's even possible), and typically have a boost in the upper bass; despite that, the perception on most of them is that the bass is weak. In some cases people just aren't aware of the noise floor since they don't hear a distinct sound, but it's still around 30db to 40db, and a lot of that gets in the way of an open headphone's sound; in other cases, it's that lack of a kick in the chest that aids how the bass is perceived.


----------



## TomM

tomm said:


> Short question...
> 
> Has the USB Port of the Microsoft Surface 2 (RT Version, if matters) enough power to "drive" the ODAC (don't want a powered usb hub)?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 In case anyone is interested in that.
 I meanwhile got my ODAC and it perfectly connects my Microsoft Surface 2 (with Windows 8.1 RT) with my O2. No problems here...


----------



## dazzerfong

Hey guys, I've decided to try the ODAC with my Z1 Compact (Lollipop) after acquiring a USB OTG cable. To my disappointment, it didn't work. USB Audio Player claims that it can't read the USB DAC, but the kernel could, however. I tried using a powered hub, still a no-go. I'm almost certain that my phone supports USB audio. Any solutions?


----------



## ClieOS

dazzerfong said:


> Hey guys, I've decided to try the ODAC with my Z1 Compact (Lollipop) after acquiring a USB OTG cable. To my disappointment, it didn't work. USB Audio Player claims that it can't read the USB DAC, but the kernel could, however. I tried using a powered hub, still a no-go. I'm almost certain that my phone supports USB audio. Any solutions?


 
  
 No problem with Z2 (also on Lollipop) and UAPP, HF Player, Walkman app or Neutron. If what you mean by 'kernel' is system sound, I'll guess your smartphone default driver has 'locked' onto ODAC and therefore UAPP is unable to access it. Try going into UAPP, select and deselect 'play through android' and see if it will re-trigger the USB driver. If not, try a restart.


----------



## dazzerfong

clieos said:


> No problem with Z2 (also on Lollipop) and UAPP, HF Player, Walkman app or Neutron. If what you mean by 'kernel' is system sound, I'll guess your smartphone default driver has 'locked' onto ODAC and therefore UAPP is unable to access it. Try going into UAPP, select and deselect 'play through android' and see if it will re-trigger the USB driver. If not, try a restart.


 
 Cheers mate! Gonna give it a try. Also gonna try and nuke Viper4Android, maybe that's messing with it.
  
 When I mean 'kernel', UAPP gives me that message. In reality, no sound actually plays.


----------



## ClieOS

Then make sure you didn't select any odd setting (USB tweak and such). Last but not least, make sure you didn't turn the digital volume all the way down.


----------



## dazzerfong

clieos said:


> Then make sure you didn't select any odd setting (USB tweak and such). Last but not least, make sure you didn't turn the digital volume all the way down.


 
 Nope, I even reinstalled the app. Here's the message I'm getting:
  
 Android did not find any devices, but Linux did! 
 This means that your cable is OK and your device probably supports USB host mode, so you should try rebooting and replugging your device.
  
 Please make sure to connect your USB audio device before starting the app. If it fails to detect your device, chances are that your Android device and/or audio device are incompatible.
  
  
 Is it entirely possible that my phone doesn't even like USB OTG? I tried the OTG adapter with a memory stick, and it worked fine, or should I get a Mini-B to Micro-B?


----------



## ClieOS

dazzerfong said:


> Nope, I even reinstalled the app. Here's the message I'm getting:
> 
> Android did not find any devices, but Linux did!
> This means that your cable is OK and your device probably supports USB host mode, so you should try rebooting and replugging your device.
> ...


 
  
 Note that OTG for flash memory and OTG for USB DAC are two different things. Having one doesn't equal to having the other. However, UAPP shouldn't really care whether your smartphone has USB DAC OTG support or not since it runs on its own driver. I can get my old Xperia TX to connect to ODAC, so I can't see why your Z1 Compact can't. Perhaps try another cable?


----------



## dazzerfong

clieos said:


> Note that OTG for flash memory and OTG for USB DAC are two different things. Having one doesn't equal to having the other. However, UAPP shouldn't really care whether your smartphone has USB DAC OTG support or not since it runs on its own driver. I can get my old Xperia TX to connect to ODAC, so I can't see why your Z1 Compact can't. Perhaps try another cable?


 
 Yeah, that's what I thought too. I'm gonna try reflashing everything, and if that doesn't work, going to try KitKat again. Thanks nonetheless.


----------



## dazzerfong

Update - works on KitKat when I reflashed an old version. Going to try another distribution of Lollipop to see if it works.


----------



## Draulius

I've been looking at the O2+Odac Combos by JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics. The latter boasts an upgrade called Rev. B with supposedly better measurements and is cheaper. Is there any reason not to get the Mayflower Electronics one over JDS Labs?
  
 Surely if the Mayflower one was better at a lower price then there would be a lot more people getting it instead.
  
 Thanks in advance for any information on them.


----------



## ClieOS

draulius said:


> I've been looking at the O2+Odac Combos by JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics. The latter boasts an upgrade called Rev. B with supposedly better measurements and is cheaper. Is there any reason not to get the Mayflower Electronics one over JDS Labs?
> 
> Surely if the Mayflower one was better at a lower price then there would be a lot more people getting it instead.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any information on them.


 
  
 If you read JDB Labs's ODAC page carefully, you will notice JDS already updated its ODAC to rev.B on May 11th.
  
 In fact, if you read this, JDS Labs is the one who helps to design ODAC rev.B.


----------



## K_19

They're basically the same units, so it'll basically come down to what you prefer for aesthetics... I like mayflower's aluminium knob better than the JDS' default, but JDS has that custom engraving option which is cool. Mayflower and JDS also differ in colour of LED light they use, JDS uses red while Mayflower I believe uses amber or green, forgot which exactly but some non red colour.


----------



## ER4S

Is there any comparison between original ODAC and ODAV RevB?


----------



## TomM

Actually, I realized that there is a new revision about an hour ago and was just about to raise the same question here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So I am also interested in  comparison of the revision. Is it worth to upgrade?


----------



## James-uk

er4s said:


> Is there any comparison between original ODAC and ODAV RevB?




They sound identical but the RevB accepts I phone as a source via camera connection kit.i am currently using iPhone 6 > apple music> Odac/o2> HD800. Makes it a very compact system with perfect sound quality . The only improvement on this for me would be to remove all the wires but that's for the future !


----------



## ER4S

james-uk said:


> They sound identical but the RevB accepts I phone as a source via camera connection kit.i am currently using iPhone 6 > apple music> Odac/o2> HD800. Makes it a very compact system with perfect sound quality . The only improvement on this for me would be to remove all the wires but that's for the future !


 
  
 Thanks. So it seems there's no big changes in terms of sound quality.


----------



## Draulius

er4s said:


> Thanks. So it seems there's no big changes in terms of sound quality.


 
 Not even a little one. It is impossible to tell the difference.


----------



## ER4S

draulius said:


> Not even a little one. It is impossible to tell the difference.


 
  
 Is it that obvious? I don't know why but I'm not hold with this product because it's not JDS Labs' style so to say.


----------



## Draulius

er4s said:


> Is it that obvious? I don't know why but I'm not hold with this product because it's not JDS Labs' style so to say.


 
 Both JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics use RevB.


----------



## ER4S

draulius said:


> Both JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics use RevB.


 
  
 But it's produced by JDS Labs, isn't it?


----------



## Solrighal

draulius said:


> Both JDS Labs and Mayflower Electronics use RevB.


 
  
 As are Head'n'Hifi in Switzerland..
  
http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/odac-xl-version
  


er4s said:


> But it's produced by JDS Labs, isn't it?


 
  
 The revB board is open-source so everyone will be using it. Check first of course.


----------



## ER4S

solrighal said:


> The revB board is open-source so everyone will be using it. Check first of course.


 
  
 Oh I see, thanks for correction.


----------



## rasmushorn

solrighal said:


> As are Head'n'Hifi in Switzerland..
> 
> http://www.headnhifi.com/dac/odac-xl-version
> 
> ...


 
  
 ....And Epiphany Acoustics in the UK: http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk


----------



## avitron142

dazzerfong said:


> Update - works on KitKat when I reflashed an old version. Going to try another distribution of Lollipop to see if it works.


 
 I'm in CM12.1 (Lollipop distro) - got the same error as you. Any luck making it work with Lollipop?


----------



## fishda

I finally get to order the odac.mine will have the rca jacks.so excited


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## jseaber

er4s said:


> But it's produced by JDS Labs, isn't it?


 
  
 ODAC RevB is owned and exclusively manufactured by Yoyodyne Consulting, with collaborative input and analysis from JDS Labs. You can find a lengthy release article on our blog.
  


rasmushorn said:


> ....And Epiphany Acoustics in the UK: http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk


 
  
 FYI - Epiphany closed shop last year.


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## fishda

Just got my odac rev b.it beats my 2 year old topping d20 in all aspects.wow.i wish i still have my o2 though.


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## martinrajdl

Just got mine from JDS Labs. Sounds good, looks good, no noise. Good purchase. I guess this all anyone need to spend on a DAC (at least I do).


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