# Intona High Speed USB Isolator



## EH-Yeon

http://intona.eu/en/company
  
 I have been looking at this to include this into my computer audio chain despite it is not focused on audio application.
  
 Quoted from the company,
  


> At Intona, our business nature is Professional Audio. Thanks to our fully equippped audio lab, we had the chance to take special attention keeping the noise of the power supply output as low as possible in the 20-20k range and we also optimized current flow using a high-speed current sensor probe that resulted in the probably industrial-wide lowest 8 kHz packet noise. We also did ensure the compatiblity to UAC 2.0 devices. Lastly, both XMOS-based and RME interfaces are tested and found 100% compatible to our high speed isolator product as it supports the full bandwidth of 480 MBits.


 
  
 Preorder is open now and expected to be shipped at the end of September 2015.


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## dmbr

I use the schiit decrapifier...does this do anything different? Would it make sense to use both?


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## EH-Yeon

dmbr said:


> I use the schiit decrapifier...does this do anything different? Would it make sense to use both?


 
 I do not own the decrapifier, and I assumed it is renamed as wyrd. If i am not wrong, wyrd is a usb hub with cleaner power supply and clock oscillator while intona seems to be a usb galvanic isolator at hi-speed (480mb/s) with FPGA design and isolator chips. To date, most of the usb isolators work at full speed (12mb/s).
  
 they are two different product aiming at different functionality. So, I assume it would make sense and of course it would still depends on your devices on the chain next. 
  
 All these is still my speculations, I am still waiting for more data and information to be released next month.


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## EH-Yeon

> High Speed USB Isolator Intona proudly presents the world's first in-the-box solution for isolating the USB 2.0 Hi-Speed bus. The device passed intensively testings using all kinds of high speed hosts and devices.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some update from the website from the last seen. Looking into ifi iusb 3.0 comparing to this as well.


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## GrouchoMarx1933

Has anyone tried this? I know lots of people are gushing over the USB regen. In theory this should be even more robust, being designed for professional use.


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## Deftone

looks like it would go nicely next to one of these


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## schmike

I brought first batch and tested
First firmware have problem and getting audio data lost
After report and Updated firmware.
We getting a very good sound
I think it is the good for USB DAC


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## xrobbo

There is a very interesting discussion of the merits of the Intona on CA.
 Link is here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/


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## motberg

Hi everyone,
  
 Thanks for all the input here, especially the computer audio and source components sections, I have been following things for a couple years now and Head-fi has been the a most beneficial source of information, even though I do not have any high-end headphones and use speakers exclusively for music. I think I can add some input to this thread so here goes....
  
 A few days ago I changed an Uptone Regen (powered by Teradak 9V fed by Audio-GD HE-350 regenerator) with the standard Intona USB Isolator.
  
 Now have a few days listening with the Intona in the chain..
  
 Mine was quickly and professionally shipped and arrived in a few days via UPS (to China).
  
 The most noticeable improvement from the Intona is the top end, cymbals especially are more natural sounding. (I have worked in bands and done a little recording) Generally from the lower midrange up, everything is MUCH clearer - with many details (sometimes entire elements) present that went unnoticed previously, for example Joni Mitchell, "Court and Spark", "Peoples Parties", it is now possible to immediately understand each lyric with her phrasing and pacing - and thus better to naturally follow her story line, you feel more like you are there with her.. Also - previously the beginning passages on Genesis "Duke", the cymbal play was mostly a wash of various intensity and tones, but my system could not resolve the sounds into individual cymbal play... with the Intona now it is possible to identify the various cymbals, positions and stick work.   
  
 Generally, since I installed the Intona, on every album there have been at least a few places where I can now more easily understand the lyrics. I was listening to David Bowie, "Diamond Dogs" and the improvement was such that seemed the files had been remastered exactly to my liking.
  
 Bass is a little tighter with the Intona, but not deeper. Dynamics are similar between the 2 devices.
  
 Soundstage height/width/depth initially seemed pretty much the same - but after some evaluation with more spacious recordings, I noticed the soundstage actually deepened around 100% to the rear, and 10% to the front and sides, height stayed pretty much the same. Also pertaining to soundstage is the added detail which focuses  the elements positions within the soundstage and also adds elements that I have not noticed previously. For soundstage depth example, if you try the first song on Alan Parsons Project "I Robot", previously the choir parts stopped at my front wall (about 1 meter from the rear of the speakers), these same parts now have the effect of being back from the speakers up to 3 meters (minimum) with the elements and their movements very clearly defined.
  
 I was testing a rather good tube buffer previously, as I like the comforting feeling that a good clean tube stage offers... After adding the Intona I decided to power the PPA card with the battery PS (and thus I guess the Intona) in an effort to soften things up a bit.... I have since taken the tube stuff out of the system.. the Intona cleans up everything so well that any tube smoothing is not required and still retains all the SS detail.
  
 In my install with the Intona, I noticed that I now need to start the computer first, let it settle, then start the Tanley DDC for JPlay to see the Tanly KS... I cannot start the Tanley before the computer.. JPlay will not see the DDC. (With the Regen I did not have this procedural restriction). Also I first tried the Intona with the Regen-supplied USB adapter... things sounded OK, but overall the frequency balance was tipped to the upper end when using this hard adapter.. I replaced the adapter with my prior-used PPA short cable and now the top end is more relaxed and overall balanced.
  
 Note, I was really really happy with the Regen improvements, it was really an eye-opener as to what is possible in this area.... but as of now it seems like there is nothing between the computer USB port and the DAC. Everything sounds really good with just the Intona. Adding this device into my system was for sure my most cost effective tweak, and subjectively similar or better than upgrading DDC's, adding battery power to the OS drive, or adding the power regeneration machine.
  
 This is the first time in a long while I am entering the stereo room to listen to music - rather than to evaluate the status of the system SQ.
  
 I guess soon there will be other devices similar, hopefully somewhat cheaper... but I think Intona did a good job with this device  -  and in my system the benefits were far greater than I would have expected with this level of investment.
  
 Here is the current chain from computer to DAC...
  
 Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS,  PPA V2 USB card (battery), 32GB OS SSD (battery), PS/2 mouse, USB keyboard, on-board video (monitor is powered off during play), 256GB SSD(LPS) for primary music (all WAV files), SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks. WIN2012 and AO, JPlay6, Mini, Total Commander. Ultrastream/Hibernate, PPA dual USB cable, Intona standard USB isolator, PPA Regen-size USB cable, Tanly DDC via HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S to Audio-GD Master 7 DAC.


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## FredA

motberg said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks for all the input here, especially the computer audio and source components sections, I have been following things for a couple years now and Head-fi has been the a most beneficial source of information, even though I do not have any high-end headphones and use speakers exclusively for music. I think I can add some input to this thread so here goes....
> 
> ...


 
 I am restaining myself  from ordering one right away. Did you ask for customization to prevent blinking led when playing high-res contents?


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## Superdad

Hi guys:
  
 I have an Intona too (though it needs firmware upgrade as it is very finicky with my XMOS-input DACs and some cables).  But just to be clear, its sole function of galvanic isolation does not duplicate or obviate the REGEN's function of improving USB signal integrity and impedance match (and REGEN's secondary function of providing very clean VBUS power to DACs that need it).
  
 And given that the Intona has a single, very average clock oscillator--located on the dirty input side--for the entire device (for both PHY chips, both FPGAs, and fed over the isolator), and that the SilLabs TX/RX RF-type isolator and the FPGAs add LOTS of jitter, the output of the Intona really does benefit from the clean reclocking/generation of the USB signal the REGEN offers.
  
 Thus the ideal set-up (short of having a galvanically isolated version of the REGEN) is to place the Intona before a REGEN.  Then you get the unique benefits of both.  That's what quite a few folks are doing.
  
 Ciao,
  
 --Alex C.


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## bimmer100

I got mine in the mail today. And will test it out this weekend likely. I posted on another thread, which i'll copy and paste my last post. since It didn't really belong there...it belongs here.
  
 And I do have a PPA3 OCXO, have had it a while now. It's more or less a better option then the uptone regen. But that did nothing. So we shall see about the Intona.
 It has the SiTime custom ordered version of the S150X - the chip is marked A08VW which is intona's own code for custom order, and 1512 which is the YEAR and working MONTH it was produced.
  
  
  
http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/cmems-oscillator-technology.pdf
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/368/Si501-2-3-276739.pdf
  
 more info. it's around 2picosecond jitter in most cases.
 EMI proof
 I'm not finding any info about it being "dirty"
  
 but on the other side of the Intona is an interesting chip - the SmSC or Microchip USB3320 - this supports ULPI input clock support which is how this device works from one clock, it is immune to dirty clocks anyhow, or they use the term "noisy" since it uses an integrated low jitter phase locked loop (PLL) to provide a clean 480MHz clock required for HS USB signal quality. This clock is used by the transceiver during both transmit and receive.
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?product=USB3320
 the specs are actually quite impressive.
  
 Technically you could power this via a battery or external linear psu. it has an excellent regulator. would require 3.1-5.5v supply input. (pin 21)
  
 so this works like so, it has two Si8660 chips, not typical, but required for full bandwidth and the complex FPGA chips.
 The USB3320 USB transceiver chip handles all the USB signalling & converts the USB protocol into ULPI protocol which is a comms standard used in internal USB comms. The ULPI protocol interfaces with the FPGA chip communicating data via 8 parallel channels & the FPGA chip changes this parallel data into 8 bit serial data which it communicates with the other FPGA chip through the isolator chip. The thing about this is that the ULPI data rate is slower than USB 480MHz data rate - it uses a 8 bit data word @ 60MHz which is a lower signal rate that can easily pass through the isolators. The 6 channel connections between FPGA & Si8660 chip is the ULPI connection (3 control signals + clock + 8bit data channel) - bi-directional so needs two isolator chips. The SiTime clock stays in perfect sync regardless of it's noisy state, since the USB3320 has a low jitter PLL that is designed to lock in and output a strong signal on the "clean" side of the board.
  
'The Si8660 has 6 channels, each capable of doing 150 Mbps. "Mbps" is meant as "million baud per second" - that is the count of symbols per time. Effectively, this can be 300 MBit/s. Multiplied to 6 channels = 1.8GBit/s.'
  
  
 this board even has an Atmel 32bit Risc Microcontroller  - which has it's own two oscillators and two phase lock loop allowing independant cpu frequency from usb frequency. Also, suprisingly supports i2s and has one 8 channel 10-bit analog to digital converter and 16-bit stereo audio Bitstream with support sample rate of up to 50khz. Just interesting component to have in this intona. 
  
 after doing calculations of the noise for the intona. something is odd.. since it has 1.8v, 3.3v and 5v sources.
  
 the regulator is .003% noise of these voltages, or 54uV for 1.8v , 99uV for 3.3v, 150uV for 5v
 either way, thats excellent for noise figures. not amazing though. Maybe i'm missing something. I will literally just have to test the noise from the output port and find out for myself.
  
 Either way, audible increases would be obvious if the 8khz spikes in data packets is reduced to -146db levels. That alone would allow for quite an improvement of the audible signal. 
  
 well, i've done enough homework tonight. and done with this intona stuff. It's quite interesting to me. but I'll start posting in other threads now. 
  
  
 I have my concerns about losing the benefits of the PPA3 as it would be before the intona. But listening will prove a lot. I realize the design of the intona is unique and may or may not work with my setup. But it will be fed into my U12 which is highly modded and regulated. I sold my uptone regen amber as it did nothing for my setup. I"m kinda wondering if this will work.
  
 I havent really heard a bad review yet. Maybe i'll be the first? 
  
 I feel better knowing there is another guy with the Paul Pang gear. I'm worried as the PPA3 is also being fed by a teddy pardo 5v now, and soon to be the Hynes SR3. Either way, I'm looking into the intona and see it's old regulators could potentially be upgraded. the l1117's...maybe some belleson super power mk2's. NOt really sure if this would be possible as I havent looked into it. plus at 60usd each, that would be pricey...i think the intona has 5-6 regulators to be swapped. potentially the SiLabs mems chip might be able to be replaced, but i'm not entirely sure. the smsc microschip usb chip should deal with a lot of the issues. I want to actually get some jitter measurements with this intona. Which is high on the list of to-do's.


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## bimmer100

quote from company "At Intona, our business nature is Professional Audio. Thanks to our fully equippped audio lab, we had the chance to take special attention keeping the noise of the power supply output as low as possible in the 20-20k range and we also optimized current flow using a high-speed current sensor probe that resulted in the probably industrial-wide lowest 8 kHz packet noise. We also did ensure the compatiblity to UAC 2.0 devices. Lastly, both XMOS-based and RME interfaces are tested and found 100% compatible to our high speed isolator product as it supports the full bandwidth of 480 MBits." what we might be benefitting is the low noise of 8khz packet noise... apparently much much lower than even the optical corning usb cable at around 118db. or typical usb at 102-108db
  
 please look again...Intona's packet noise of 8khz doesnt' even show up
http://intona.eu/pub/7054_fft_downstream.pdf
  
 this shows 8K packet noise at full speed...not until 145db below you will see spikes in 8k noise... show me one device that does better.
  
  
 more reading material...
  
  
 The corning cable is mentioned, amongst many others...notice 8khz spikes...
  
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html
  
  
  
 still not interested?
  
 take note of the audible ranges of each graph.
  
 NOTHING to see with the intona until after the audible range. quite impressive to me. since it's clearly the lowest noise usb device to date.

 So this blogger updated his comments about he Corning optical cable. It's fatally flawed. But the intona USB isolator would fix this problem! See what he says "
 Hey there guys. Okay. I took the multimeter to the Corning optical cable and indeed the suspicions were correct - GROUND IS STILL CONNECTED.

 However, given my findings, I am of the opinion that the noise reduction I'm seeing is primarily due to isolation of the data lines using optics which I think is *much more important*. That 8kHz tone IMO is much more bothersome than comparatively lower level noise and is originating mainly from D+ and D-, not the 5V and GND connections. Suppression of 8kHz at least in my system provided a nice proxy for quieting down the noise in general.

 Again, love to see what the other commercial products would do in this "test bed"."


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## mmerrill99

Thanks for your analysis - very informative
Just a couple of corrections, I believe:



bimmer100 said:


> but on the other side of the Intona is an interesting chip - the SmSC or Microchip USB3320 - this supports ULPI input clock support which is how this device works from one clock, it is immune to dirty clocks anyhow, or they use the term "noisy" since it uses an integrated low jitter phase locked loop (PLL) to provide a clean 480MHz clock required for HS USB signal quality. This clock is used by the transceiver during both transmit and receive.
> http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?product=USB3320
> the specs are actually quite impressive.
> 
> ...


The USB3320 does indeed communicate via ULPI with the FPGA. ULPI uses 8 parallel data lines @ 60MHz to give 480MHz throughput - the same as USB 2 - plus it has 3 or 4 other lines for control signals?

Each FPGA has only 5 channels to the Si8660 isolators (that I can see) so presumably the FPGA is doing some sort of signal compression over a couple of data lines + some control lines (on of which is the clock). In other words it's not ULPI that is being used between the FPGAs, it's some proprietary compression of the bit signals.




> this board even has an Atmel 32bit Risc Microcontroller  - which has it's own two oscillators and two phase lock loop allowing independant cpu frequency from usb frequency. Also, suprisingly supports i2s and has one 8 channel 10-bit analog to digital converter and 16-bit stereo audio Bitstream with support sample rate of up to 50khz. Just interesting component to have in this intona.


I'm not sure what board you are talking about here but the Intona doesn't have an MCU or any other clocks than the Silabs MEMS clock you mention above?


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## bimmer100

mmerrill99 said:


> Thanks for your analysis - very informative
> Just a couple of corrections, I believe:
> The USB3320 does indeed communicate via ULPI with the FPGA. ULPI uses 8 parallel data lines @ 60MHz to give 480MHz throughput - the same as USB 2 - plus it has 3 or 4 other lines for control signals?
> 
> ...




The Mcu I mentioned was my error, when looking it up I clicked the wrong link. It was late last night and was clearly tired  this soic8 on the dirty side of the intona directly avid the fpga. Adesto1512 45db021e sshn .
Maybe a flash memory IC? 

I can find a better higher resolution photo but...headfi won't allow me to upload higher resolution


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## motberg

freda said:


> I am restaining myself  from ordering one right away. Did you ask for customization to prevent blinking led when playing high-res contents?


 
 Hi,
  
 No - I just ordered a standard isolator, no modification. ( I travel a lot so wanted to try this before I had to "hit the road" again..)  The blinking led is very soft and very fast, almost looks solid. In my setup it is actually pointed away from direct view from the listening position. I have lots of blue and red led's which would be much more intrusive into the listening space, but I just block them with various covers. If I remember correct, the Intona guy has already commented that they have already engineered the led circuit to work separately from anything that would affect the sound quality.
  
 Just another side comment - I did not have any trouble with my installation, but I thought it was kind of remarkable how fast they fixed that problem found with connection with some of the older XMOS chips.. I thought that was a pretty impressive response...


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## FredA

motberg said:


> Hi,
> 
> No - I just ordered a standard isolator, no modification. ( I travel a lot so wanted to try this before I had to "hit the road" again..)  The blinking led is very soft and very fast, almost looks solid. In my setup it is actually pointed away from direct view from the listening position. I have lots of blue and red led's which would be much more intrusive into the listening space, but I just block them with various covers. If I remember correct, the Intona guy has already commented that they have already engineered the led circuit to work separately from anything that would affect the sound quality.
> 
> Just another side comment - I did not have any trouble with my installation, but I thought it was kind of remarkable how fast they fixed that problem found with connection with some of the older XMOS chips.. I thought that was a pretty impressive response...




Small company with CEO involved in development. Gives a very responsive customer service. Read a couple of posts from him on CA. He seems very professional and knowledgeable. I almost ordered one 30 minutes ago. I have a Schiit Wyrd which i used with a jitterbug upstream. This improves my sound 2-3 notches. I would like to isolate the computer furthermore. The Intona seems like the best option available for the buck and the best option period, technically speaking.


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## FredA

bimmer100 said:


> The Mcu I mentioned was my error, when looking it up I clicked the wrong link. It was late last night and was clearly tired  this soic8 on the dirty side of the intona directly avid the fpga. Adesto1512 45db021e sshn .
> Maybe a flash memory IC?
> 
> I can find a better higher resolution photo but...headfi won't allow me to upload higher resolution





Any quick first impressions? My finger is on the trigger...


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## rb2013

superdad said:


> Hi guys:
> 
> I have an Intona too (though it needs firmware upgrade as it is very finicky with my XMOS-input DACs and some cables).  But just to be clear, its sole function of galvanic isolation does not duplicate or obviate the REGEN's function of improving USB signal integrity and impedance match (and REGEN's secondary function of providing very clean VBUS power to DACs that need it).
> 
> ...


Interesting comments on the clocking Alex. Thanks.


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## rb2013

Regarding the clocks in the Intona - one must keep in mind they are non-crystal MEMS.  This was based on the design criteria of having to with stand <2G lateral acceleration 24/7.  As Intona states:
  


> Then the quality of the crystal oscillator is important too. Are you using, say, Crystek oscillators? It is a SiLabs MEMS oscillator, with measured Jitter around 2ps. This is, because *1. we have some customers that need mechanicly rugged hardware because they use our isolators at repeated >2g acceleration 24h/7d - crystals will fail her*e - and 2. power consumption of MEMS is 1/10 of crystals. As all voltage regulators are linear in the isolator, we had to pay attention to overall efficiency.


 
*Figure 15. Price/Performance Comparison of Si50x CMEMS Oscillator vs. Si51x, Si59x, and Si53x/5x/7x XOs​*  

  
 It looks like they use the CMEMS S150X - the lowest cost and lowest performance in the SiTime line-up.  Certainly against their crystal based clocks.  I did not see a phase noise plot vs freq as is std for NDK and Crystek on these clocks.   But they do perform well in a high G environment.
  
The other point is the main intended use - that is DC line surge galvanic isolation.   And a shake-proof case.  This is because of the industrial not audio design parameters.
  


> Table 1Model Types, Ordering Codes and Differences
> Standard VersionModel Nr. 70541kV isolation, standard temperature grade, standard connectorsIndustrial VersionModel Nr. 7054-X2.5kV isolation, specified isolation working voltage, extended temperature grade, high retention connectors
> Both models are also available as bare bone version without enclosure. Resin hardened version for extreme mechanical demands (shakeproof) upon request.​


 
 Not saying it won't improve some systems - but may not do much in well designed ones.


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## GrouchoMarx1933

rb2013 said:


> Not saying it won't improve some systems - but may not do much in well designed ones.


 
  
 I feel like this could be said of all/any of the USB clean-up devices on the market. It seems with all of these products, it's very YMMV.


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## alubis

I can understand the need for a good clock for SPDIF, but why do we need reclocking for USB? DAC USB input is asynchronous anyway. My experience with Chord Hugo is the 5V USB from transport leaking to the DAC hence decreasing the sound quality, so I would think the solution would be a good galvanic isolation and no need for regenerating/reclocking.


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## bimmer100

FYI, i'm dealing with family emergency related events, and have not had enough time to really listen to the intona. Intial impressions are positive, but to what extent? Nothing that less than 30minutes could give any definitive review or reply. First Impression, Noise floor sounds excellent, Possibly to the point that my system won't have audible improvements beyond a certain point. albeit It already was excellent. I did however also receive my HEX back from Hifiman today. a total new pair was sent and perfectly in tip top working order and no cosmetic issues whatsoever. I will listen for a while with the intona and then switch back after a week to see what's missing, if anything. Or if it will be a repeat of the Uptone Regen and find out it made my system sound worse. Stay tuned... overall, I can honestly say....no change is dramatic...if any. first impression is.... not a good upgrade for the money. Also tried a jitterbug, that did absolutely nothing as well.with or without. I'd hope these work for others, but i'm not one to make things up in my mind if there are audible improvements or not. I need more time with this intona to be sure. At this moment and time, I'm sure enough that I could live without it.
  
 I'm not going to do the a/b back forth every 5min crap. I'm going to listen for hours/days or a week, and then switch back to no intona.  I'm also have a jitterbug i'm going to throw into the mix.
  
 initial installation was a breeze. NO issues whatsoever. plugged in, and everything works perfectly.
  
 I'm going to take this to a local meet on the 30th and sure to find a person who's system will benefit from this much more than my system would. I'm finding that my system is already sounding so damn good and has such clean power all around...there isn't much that can be improved on. So that means end game for me. 
 But I have all these wonderful DDC's to listen to and choose my final flavor of sound presentation.
  
 I'm confident I will be installing NDK's on the Audio-GD DIU8, and have the solder reflow process figured out and confident it will go smoothly.
  
 I have 2 pairs of 957's, will still attempt another xmos board for the DIU8 with 957's
 and the Breeze will get it's 957's, which truly is the most simple swap of all the DDC's. I figure that will be a 20-30min job tops.
 The PRO3A likely will sit as is, and get some super clean Teddy Pardo Power. 
 Acko dac AKR75 regulator will go into the U12, and Belleson Superpower MK2 regulator...which will sound best? not sure, but i'm told the AKR75 should technically be best for the U12 due to it's larger bandwidth and ideal use for digital gear...we shall hear and find out. Tommorrow i'm going to work on the U12 since i'm still awaiting some key components for the other builds. including still waiting for the breeze to even show up...slowest damn shipping in the world. couple weeks now... 
  
  
 overall, the good thing is I don't seem to hear a decrease in sound quality. that's better to say than my experience with the Schiit Wyrd, and Uptone Regen. which were more of anti progress for stepping my system up a notch. As I said, I need more time. More testing. Sometimes I think I hear something, but want to be sure nothing is being made up. I surely want to hear a change, but honestly can't say I do. I tested a full range of different resolution songs. many 24/192 tracks and pushing bandwidth. Seems like no loss of quality with or without intona. For a moment I thought I was hearing subtle change in sound stage. I will do more testing with the HD800 and HEX and see which might revel more. They both are quite transparent and revealing imho. I don't care what others are saying at the HEX. they are simply fantastic with my system.The HD800's are with the Sonarworks plugin. But will do some mods to them to further improve them...draug2 is on the way for hd800 first. and many mods for the HD800 are in line and ready to install when my time opens up after some projects finish. HEX am waiting for funds to purchase Draug2 and grey wire to do a grey/black wire braid. Grey is on backorder til end of feb.
  
 CUT TO THE CHASE...
  
 ok... save your money. the Intona may or may not work. at this point...hold on to your benjamins. I will test it further on laptops, low grade pcs and crapple computers to see what results I get. Honestly, my system just doesn't seem to care if the intona is a part of the family of musical madness.  Some other computers usb may welcome the Intona and likely would make dramatic differences. As the usb regen...I sold and the buyer said "what is this? sorcery! it's dramatically improved! i'm so happy for him, truly am. I wish I could say that it would of helped me, but it didn't. It's likely the intona will be attempted to be returned, or will sell it for a small loss on Headfi and use the funds towards something like the draug2 for my HEX. I know that will be an upgrade. I will update after the 30th with my final statement about the Intona. I want to be fair and give it a chance in different conditions.


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## FredA

bimmer100 said:


> FYI, i'm dealing with family emergency related events, and have not had enough time to really listen to the intona. Intial impressions are positive, but to what extent? Nothing that less than 30minutes could give any definitive review or reply. First Impression, Noise floor sounds excellent, Possibly to the point that my system won't have audible improvements beyond a certain point. albeit It already was excellent. I did however also receive my HEX back from Hifiman today. a total new pair was sent and perfectly in tip top working order and no cosmetic issues whatsoever. I will listen for a while with the intona and then switch back after a week to see what's missing, if anything. Or if it will be a repeat of the Uptone Regen and find out it made my system sound worse. Stay tuned... overall, I can honestly say....no change is dramatic...if any. first impression is.... not a good upgrade for the money. Also tried a jitterbug, that did absolutely nothing as well.with or without. I'd hope these work for others, but i'm not one to make things up in my mind if there are audible improvements or not. I need more time with this intona to be sure. At this moment and time, I'm sure enough that I could live without it.
> 
> I'm not going to do the a/b back forth every 5min crap. I'm going to listen for hours/days or a week, and then switch back to no intona.  I'm also have a jitterbug i'm going to throw into the mix.
> 
> ...




One thing is for sure with this fancy usb card and Hynes PSU, you have a very clean usb signal in the first place. And you probably don't have ground or ground loop issues as i do. You initial impressiions mean that the Intona does not mess that usb signal up, which in itself is quite positive, considering it is excellent already. I should have checked your setup properly before making predictions and giving you false hopes. Sorry for this.

The Intona needs a bit of buring before making an audible difference, according to other forumers. Something like 24 hours if i remember well. Did it run a bt before your brief evaluation?

Thanks for you feedback and hope this acquisition pays off after a while. It could.

I will wait. I am interested in the results with a crappy computer. Mine is good, but not excellent. And my setup is likely to have ground issues. I would be interested in buying your Intona, but do not want to pay much more than for the standard version, which is the one i was to order. Around 250 plus shipping on me would be my offer.


----------



## rb2013

merrick said:


> I feel like this could be said of all/any of the USB clean-up devices on the market. It seems with all of these products, it's very YMMV.


 

 And from my experience with the Regen fed by a linear power supply.  It made a very noticeable improvement in my office system (R2R DAC 60 - heavily modded), but actually made my main system worse (APL NWOjr DAC).

 But who knows?  I doubt the industrial version is necessary - unless you plan on connecting a lightning rod to your PC.  The 'standard' version should be fine with 1K Volts protection.  The 'industrial' version also can with stand very high temperatures and has 'shake-proof' connectors.  All of these not need in an audio set-up.
  
 May try if a std pops up on the used market for $100.


----------



## rb2013

alubis said:


> I can understand the need for a good clock for SPDIF, but why do we need reclocking for USB? DAC USB input is asynchronous anyway. My experience with Chord Hugo is the 5V USB from transport leaking to the DAC hence decreasing the sound quality, so I would think the solution would be a good galvanic isolation and no need for regenerating/reclocking.


 

 Good question.  But from what I've read on the Paul Pang USB cards the V3 which uses a OXCO sounds much better then the V2 card which uses a TXCO - these clocks are for USB only, not audio, or SPDIF.  Both much better then the CMEMS in the intona.  The TXCO looks like a OEM JYEC with .1ppm stability versus 20ppm for the SiTime S150X.  I did not see a std phase noise vs freq graph in the S150X datasheet. But here is one for a OCXO vs the NDK SD.  The JYEC measures around -125db a 1Khz.
  

  
 PPA V3 with OCXO USB card:


 PPA V2 with TXCO


----------



## rb2013

bimmer100 said:


> FYI, i'm dealing with family emergency related events, and have not had enough time to really listen to the intona. Intial impressions are positive, but to what extent? Nothing that less than 30minutes could give any definitive review or reply. First Impression, Noise floor sounds excellent, Possibly to the point that my system won't have audible improvements beyond a certain point. albeit It already was excellent. I did however also receive my HEX back from Hifiman today. a total new pair was sent and perfectly in tip top working order and no cosmetic issues whatsoever. I will listen for a while with the intona and then switch back after a week to see what's missing, if anything. Or if it will be a repeat of the Uptone Regen and find out it made my system sound worse. Stay tuned... overall, I can honestly say....no change is dramatic...if any. first impression is.... not a good upgrade for the money. Also tried a jitterbug, that did absolutely nothing as well.with or without. I'd hope these work for others, but i'm not one to make things up in my mind if there are audible improvements or not. I need more time with this intona to be sure. At this moment and time, I'm sure enough that I could live without it.
> 
> I'm not going to do the a/b back forth every 5min crap. I'm going to listen for hours/days or a week, and then switch back to no intona.  I'm also have a jitterbug i'm going to throw into the mix.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting initial review - may need some burn in time.  I think with your PPA V3 fed by the Hynes - this may not be needed.  But like the Regen it might help other systems.  But for the $300 someone could get a PPA V2 and a LPS -maybe a bigger bang for the buck.


----------



## FredA

motberg said:


> Hi,
> 
> No - I just ordered a standard isolator, no modification. ( I travel a lot so wanted to try this before I had to "hit the road" again..)  The blinking led is very soft and very fast, almost looks solid. In my setup it is actually pointed away from direct view from the listening position. I have lots of blue and red led's which would be much more intrusive into the listening space, but I just block them with various covers. If I remember correct, the Intona guy has already commented that they have already engineered the led circuit to work separately from anything that would affect the sound quality.
> 
> Just another side comment - I did not have any trouble with my installation, but I thought it was kind of remarkable how fast they fixed that problem found with connection with some of the older XMOS chips.. I thought that was a pretty impressive response...




I have ordered the regular version with the "no flash" mod. I don't have a fancy usb card, so it should help my setup. Plus it really provides galvanic isolation, according to a poster in another forum who created a ground loop on purpose and fixed it with the intona.


----------



## bimmer100

freda said:


> I have ordered the regular version with the "no flash" mod. I don't have a fancy usb card, so it should help my setup. Plus it really provides galvanic isolation, according to a poster in another forum who created a ground loop on purpose and fixed it with the intona.


 
 ahh ok, I was going to sell you mine  but thats cool. Either way i'm sure my industrial version will sell pretty quickly. This thing does work for systems that need it. I just have a rediculously low noise system.


----------



## bimmer100

rb2013 said:


> Interesting initial review - may need some burn in time.  I think with your PPA V3 fed by the Hynes - this may not be needed.  But like the Regen it might help other systems.  But for the $300 someone could get a PPA V2 and a LPS -maybe a bigger bang for the buck.


 
  
 Well, i'm going to put the Intona up for sale, the teddy pardo, and 3 of the 4 ddc's( will know in 2weeks).
  
 And the PPAV2 isn't really nearly as good at the V3, but I suppose it's not too shabby either. But if you're in that price range, i'd go with the volent usb card.
 http://www.volent.com.hk/?page_id=632


----------



## FredA

bimmer100 said:


> ahh ok, I was going to sell you mine  but thats cool. Either way i'm sure my industrial version will sell pretty quickly. This thing does work for systems that need it. I just have a rediculously low noise system.




Yeah i figured you would sell it quicky on headfi or CA. I waited for 24 hours but then i read in this thread you were to offer it to friends on the 30th, or something like this, i placed my order.

Just could not wait anymore. I waited for more than 2 weeks in fact. 

My system sounded a bit crappie for the last 48 hours, it contributed to making me pull the trigger. Tonight, it's back to normal: quite awesome.

The Intona makes sense using a mac mini computer, with which you are stuck with noisy usb ports...Next computer will probably be one of those fanless mini pc, running linux, powered by the 3 voltage teradak, with possible use of a Paul Pang usb card. Then maybe i won't need the intona anymore.

If ever you decide to not keep your breeze, i might get it, with the Crysteks in of course... This little thing sounds so good that i believe if you try it (with crysteks) though i2s on your M11, your are gonna sell your Gustard. For that, i would recommend the 6-inch cable2go cat6a cable on amazon. Both the M7 and M11 sound better using i2s. And probably with pll off ( i would have to put it back on to make sure this applies as well with the breeze in, as it the case with the di2014).


----------



## rb2013

bimmer100 said:


> Well, i'm going to put the Intona up for sale, the teddy pardo, and 3 of the 4 ddc's( will know in 2weeks).
> 
> And the PPAV2 isn't really nearly as good at the V3, but I suppose it's not too shabby either. But if you're in that price range, i'd go with the volent usb card.
> http://www.volent.com.hk/?page_id=632


That card looks pretty interesting. Is your Teddy 5vdc?


----------



## bimmer100

I almost ordered one of those USB cards. It's spec'd nicely for the price!
And the teddy is the newest model @360something usd plus shipping. But would likely sell if for a bit less. Albeit it's not more than a couple months old. It's the 5V model with 2.5mm DC cable.


----------



## mainaman

Is it better to invest in an Intona or a fancy USB card?I guess the former.I can't afford both and my PC is a quite noisy.


----------



## FredA

I





mainaman said:


> Is it better to invest in an Intona or a fancy USB card?I guess the former.I can't afford both and my PC is a quite noisy.





If you have a groud loop, you need the intona or some sort of galavanic isolation if you cannot get rid of it otherwise. I like external devices because they cannot be contaminated with the rfi and emi that are strongly present inside a pc. Seems however that you need a usb reclocker after the intona, like the regen, and a fancy psu to power it, to get the best results. I will try to comfirm this by using the intona with and without the wyrd after it. I will also try with and without a jitterbug inside an unused port.

The best bang for the buck seems in favor of the usb card but it does not fix a ground loop, to this day.

Note that using an intona at the output of a fancy usb card defeats its pupose because of its not as good a reclocker. That being said, the results depend also on the usb receiver's clocking.

In practice, you might be surprised by the results you get because of impedence matching, shielding and possibly other factors. The usb cables you choose will matter as well.


----------



## bimmer100

I'm having second thoughts now. I was quick to jump to conclusions I suppose. After extensive testing of lots of my well known music collection. I've finally distinguished not just a difference but a subtle improvement. I had to admit i'm not hearing things either. It's just simply not something dramatic in my system. I'm happy it's not a step sideways or backwards.
 The area i'm hearing improvement in specifically is the higher tones, approximately somewhere around 7-9khz. Percentage wise, 3-5%. It's just a touch cleaner/smoother in this area of my music. Not all music i'm able to hear these improvements clearly. So is it still worth the upgrade? That's a matter of opinion. I think I will be hanging on to this til the end of the month and testing more setups with this intona. A local guy who owns a known ultra noisy laptop is wanting to do some testing to see if this device fixes his issues. I'm not doubting it will. 
 But last night I was considering selling this and using the money towards something else. It's hard to justify such a small change and a large price. This would totally be justified if my system could take advantage of this, if it were noisy... it's simply not having ground plan issues, EMI/RF etc.
  

  
  
  
  
 My PC spec's are not quite audio grade, but a nice mix between a gaming machine that remains audibly very quiet yet is quiet in electrical noise for audio grade type use. I will eventually have an LHLabs Geek Souce 1tb SSD / 1.2Ghz ARM Cortex-A9 Quad Core / 4G Ram / 2Gflash for OS / with fanless design, triple femto clocks (even usb3.0), Ultra Low ESR Power cap upgrade +Power Cap upgrade Plus (high speed PPS bypass power caps). I think the Source will be an ideal music server for my gear at a later date.
  
 For now I will be using my PC as my audio server
 Specs are as follows:
  
*SOFTWARE OS + AUDIO:*
 OS Windows 8.1 professional 64bit  / Jriver Media Center 21 / Darin Fongs Out of Your Head
  
*GENERAL BUILD:*
 Cooler Master HAF XB EVO 2
 *Asus Rampage IV Black Edition Motherboard X79
 *Intel 4820K Ivy-E @ 4.5ghz - bus speed remains at stock 100mhz for audio stability (usb ocxo clock speed is 100mhz)
 *Corsair Dominator Platinum 16gb 1866mhz (blue/white light bars installed to go with color theme)
  
*STORAGE OVERVIEW:*
 Samsung evo 1tb SSD - 850 EVO (music drive) 
 Samsung evo 1tb SSD - 840 EVO (OS drive)
 Samsung 830 240gb for games
 Samsung T1 500gb SSD portable music drive for audio meets
  
_Mechanical Archaic drives (5 total)_
 4Drive NAS Tower includes: 
 (2) Samsung F3 1Tb each 
 (1) WD20EURS-73TLHY0 2TB 64mb cache - video storage
 (1) HGST Deskstar 4TB (HDS724040ALE640)
 external enclosed - WD Book My Book Pro 1.5tb
  
*COOLING SYSTEM: *
 ALL EKWB Custom Water Cooling - Indigo Extreme -  EKWB Extreme CPU waterblock, GPU Classy Water Block, R4BE Water Blocks. - EK-DDC 3.1PWM EK-UNI Holder DDC Spider - Ice Dragon Cooling NanoFluid - over 50 pieces of solid nickel fittings of various types/angles/extensions for ideal setup.
 (2)EK-Vardar F3-120 (1850rpm) High Performance Liquid Cooling Fan (EK-CoolStream PE 240 (Dual) Radiator)
 (2) SilenX 15 db exhaust fans (EFX-08-15B)
 (1) Noctua NF-F12 iPPC-2000 PWM Fan with Focused Flow™ and SSO2 Bearing for Rear 120mm Radiator (EKWB EK-CoolStream PE 120 (Single) Water-Cooling Radiator)
  
*AUDIO OVERVIEW HEADFI/HIFI:*
DAC: 
 Audio-GD Master 11 w/ 6db gain stage upgrade + Hdmi i2s input + 3M EMI Absorber AB5050S film added to many IC's, between R-Core Transformers and front panel Output connections / DSP, many specific areas for potential noise. Noise reduction caps for all unused XLR, RCA, Coax etc
  
CANS/MICS HEADFI: 
 *HifiMan HEX/Norne Audio Draug2 cable XLR 4pin balanced
 *HD800/Norne Audio Draug2 cable XLR 4pin balanced 
 *Senneheiser G4ME ZER0/Custom hard wired Norne Audio Skoll cable w/ separate occ silver litz cable for microphone)  6.3mm SE for headphones and 3.5mm for mic
 *OPPO PM3's/Norne Audio Zoetic cable XLR 4pin balanced 
 *Antlion ModMic 4.0 
  
SPEAKERS HIFI:
 Vanatoo Transparent One HIFI Speakers + Definitive SuperCube 2000 subwoofer - Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Double-Shielded Low Capacitance Subwoofer Cable - Audio Sensibility Silver SE Digital Coax RCA 
  
*VIDEO /  DISPLAY *:
 EVGA 780TI kingpin edition - EKWB 780gtx Ti classy waterblock -nickel
 Dual Stack monitor stand
 Base: Asus Swift 27" G-Sync Monitor pg278q
 Top: LG Ultra wide 25" monitor (above the asus on dual mount stand)
  
*OTHER STUFF:*
 Aquacomputing MCU controlled LED Lighting:
 Apple Ipad mini 3 128gb for remote control of Jriver and mounted on flexible stand attached to desk.
  
*POWER RELATED components:*
 Corsair AX1200 Gold 1200watt psu (ultra low ripple for smps / USB 5VSB - 5.6mV-7.2mV in load I use) 
 Pangea AC-14SE power cord -Cryo'd
 Paul Pang V3 USB OCXO PCIE card - Paul Haynes SR3 5v powered - fine silver dc cable
  
 The typical general specifications for the SR3 unit are  (specs beat most other LPS/batteries like Teddy Pardo, Mojo etc)
 4 times lower noise than lead acid gel batteries and around half the noise of an LiO4 battery.
 Less than 30uV of peak to peak noise/ripple
 Less than 0.2 uS transient response and settling time from zero to full output
 Up to 2.5A continuous, 10 amps transient
 Output stage bolted to chassis for heat dissipation
 Low ESR energy storage and filtering.
 Floating output to avoid ground loops
 (hynes Sr3 5v specs finished)
  
Internal PC power filtration devices:
 Eifidelity Sata Power Filter for each SSD (all internal drives are filtered SSD's, no mechanical drives)
 Elfidelity PC HI-FI Power Filter card PCI/PCI-E HiFi PC audio power purification - PCIe
 Eifidelity PC power fan filter (5 of them... yes, 5!  one for water pump, front fans, exhaust fans)
 External drives are in a 4 drive NAS tower and smps on another circuit than my audio gear.
  
_Power layout:_
  
_separate_
 CyberPower Sinewave UPS - 900watt - CP1500PFCLCD to power PC Alone and ACInfinity SR9 fans for audio gear air circulation (usb powered from front panel of ups) 
  
_separate_
 external NAS drives and WD book drive on another circuit/outlet + Laser printer + Lamp on same circuit
  
_separate_
 PSAudio P300 (balanced AC power that is also Regenerated into pure sinewave) for 
 Paul Hynes SR3 5V <SR3 powered by modded-Pangea AC14-SE Cyro'd cable>  direction of flow(SR3>PPA3>LHlabs 2g split cable>Intona>supra 1m cable>U12
 Gustard U12/Teradak DC30w 7v (DC30w powered with Synergistic Research Tesla T1 cable) direction of flow (U12>HDMI i2s DHLabs SilverSonic .5meter cable > M11)
 AGD-Master-11 (powered by Modded PSaudio Lab Cable 6-gauge!!!, 1057-strand copper, SonarQuest Silver plated red copper connectors, Cryo'd) All cables treated with Caig Pro Gold DeoxIT 
  
_separate_
 Brick Wall 8 outlet audio grade surge protector 
 Vanatoo T1's, SuperCube2000
  
*PERSONAL USE: *
 Aluminum Foil Hat
  
  
 but honestly, with as much crap as I have installed in one area, I would think I would have a little more noise going on that would leak into my gear. Apparently not much at all. I'm pretty happy to say that. Usually the simple approach gives the best results. Oddly most laptops i've heard are the noisiest sources for audio. I think the Intona would likely benefit these type of machines the most. Especially if you are plugged into the charger for the laptop. Battery power is likely more quiet. OR, invest in a fancy Linear Power Supply for your laptop.  Which I honeslty don't know much about since my laptop is used for CAD graphics only, no audio purposes. 
  
 For those who ordered the Intona and had excellent results, could you share the specifics of your system and why you think it made a difference specifically?


----------



## FredA

bimmer100 said:


> I'm having second thoughts now. I was quick to jump to conclusions I suppose. After extensive testing of lots of my well known music collection. I've finally distinguished not just a difference but a subtle improvement. I had to admit i'm not hearing things either. It's just simply not something dramatic in my system. I'm happy it's not a step sideways or backwards.
> The area i'm hearing improvement in specifically is the higher tones, approximately somewhere around 7-9khz. Percentage wise, 3-5%. It's just a touch cleaner/smoother in this area of my music. Not all music i'm able to hear these improvements clearly. So is it still worth the upgrade? That's a matter of opinion. I think I will be hanging on to this til the end of the month and testing more setups with this intona. A local guy who owns a known ultra noisy laptop is wanting to do some testing to see if this device fixes his issues. I'm not doubting it will.
> But last night I was considering selling this and using the money towards something else. It's hard to justify such a small change and a large price. This would totally be justified if my system could take advantage of this, if it were noisy... it's simply not having ground plan issues, EMI/RF etc.
> 
> ...


 
 That is quite a setup! If you can replace all this, I am not saying you can, by an Intona, it must be the deal of the century. Looking forward to receiving mine after this feedback from you.
  
 Thanks very much. Wait a bit more. The Intona has high quality parts in it, it might still improve.


----------



## motberg

Hi bimmer100,
  
 As you can see from my earlier post, with the Intona I also initially noticed the cleaning of the highs, then the soundstage deepening, then added bass definition. One thing you can listen for is intelligibility of lyrics.. For me, the improvement on the bass is presented as if the song has been remixed or remastered.. not necessarily sharper or deeper bass, things just sound more like what I would expect to hear during making a mix - - with substantial noticeable definition between the bass elements such as kick drum and bass guitar and synth lines..
  
 I think you may be surprised to find that your OS could be holding back the potential of your current source... my guess is even a laptop on batteries using Windows server in core mode and Audiophile Optimizer would be a major improvement over Win 8 and JRiver (though you can keep JRiver with A/O if you like). 
  
 As an example.... prior to my current custom computer listed in the earlier post, I was using a nice Dell XPS i5, 4GB, SSD laptop with WinServer and A/O.. when I first switched to the new server with WinServer but in GUI and no A/O...  I was surprised there was not a greater difference from the laptop.. then installed A/O and changed to core in the new computer - wow... back into audiophile territory and the investment in the new server now was evidently worth every penny...
  
 The A/O writer is working on a Win10 version I believe... you may want to consider checking on that as an option to spending big bucks on a new dedicated source...
  
 Saludos!


----------



## FredA

Got my intona tonight. Still brand-new.

Tried a few combinations, but not easy with the intona having its input on opposite side to its output... 

1. cheap 6-inch usb cable into the intona into best usb cable into breeze: 

Very airy sound, Better highs, better imaging but where is the medium, where is low medium, bass impact?

2 Straitghwire usb replacing cheap 6-inch cable: the bass it back for the most part, still lacking some medium. My guess is the cheap usb cable had too much resistance to feed the intona properly. The rest is the same as in 1.

3. Guessing the intona likes clean and abundant 5v, i try: jitterbug into 6-inch cable into schiit wyrd into staightwire usb link into intona into ab-system mkii usb cable into breeeze:

Same sound as with my original setup (same setup without usb link and intona) but darker background and cleaner high, bringing better spatiality, more depth. And the cymbals sound very well. Not a big difference, to sum it up, but noticeable.

To early to fully appreciate the improvment especially with my hearing not being 100%, having caught the flew at the end of last week. 

And it will most likely improve. It's promising.

One thing i notice now, the sound is more laid back, the drums are farther away, which is a very good thing.

It is also good to note that combination 1 was radically different from my original sound, indicating something wrong.


----------



## rb2013

freda said:


> Got my intona tonight. Still brand-new.
> 
> Tried a few combinations, but not easy with the intona having its input on opposite side to its output...
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting - would say it's worth the $250 (I believe you bought the Std version)?  You should try another DXIO


----------



## FredA

rb2013 said:


> Interesting - would say it's worth the $250 (I believe you bought the Std version)?  You should try another DXIO




Yes, standard version. After a few hours of burning and my hearing getting a little better, i can say it is worth the money at this point. The soundstage is getting better and better. Piano attacks are excellent and the piano as a whole is very clean. Ambiance cues are clearer. Everything is cleaner. Cymbals are getting impressive, with strong attacks and nice decays. I will post again tomorrow or the day after. I will try combinations again. This thing needs burning time. Quite impressive at this point. 

Those guys on the phasure (best dac on the planet) forum are raving about the intona. I am starting to see why. If it keeps improving, and works as well on its own as with a reclocking device feeding clean 5v, i would say it's a no brainer. At least in a setup like mine. Adding a wyrd or a lps (with split cable) would not be a big concern, it's cheap enough.

Why "another" DXIO?


----------



## mainaman

According to its creator:
  
-it has two FPGAs built in and it does RECLOCKING. It also has a proprietary DC-DC converter followed by a ADP125 ultra-low-noise linear voltage regulator.
-it has a SiLabs MEMS oscillator, with measured Jitter around 2ps.
  
So does it really benefit from additional filtering and reclocking before its input and/or after its output?Why an Wyrd as well?Overkill?If you don't want to use the USB input of the DAC,pair it with the Breeze or whatever,but more devices?Just curious,i am not arguing with anybody here.
  
  
And is there a real benefit to have a setup like this:
  
Audiophile PC(Audiophile Optimizer,audiophile case,i7,LPS,audiophile USB card,etc.)---iUSB3.0---Intona-Mutec MC-3+---DAC


----------



## FredA

mainaman said:


> According to its creator:
> 
> [COLOR=333333]-it has two FPGAs built in and it does RECLOCKING. It also has a proprietary DC-DC converter followed by a ADP125 ultra-low-noise linear voltage regulator.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]-it has a [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]SiLabs MEMS oscillator, with measured [/COLOR]Jitter[COLOR=333333] around 2ps.[/COLOR]
> ...




If the reclocking is really as good as stated, then there is not much point in using reclockimg downstream, Maybe a regen is useful for impedance matching considerations.

As for having a wyrd upstream, as i am doing now, it is not the definitive setup. I will see if i can remove it after a couple hundred hours without degrading the sound. The point of it is feeding the intona with clean 5v. The brand new intona benefits from it, perhaps because its regulation is not broken yet. We'll see. But it is rare that a usb-fed component does not benefit from an external supply. My best guess would be using a fancy 5v supply with a split cable (one connection to the pc for signsl, the other to the psu for 5v).


----------



## FredA

More remarks on the intona after 24 hours:

1. It changed the balance of my system it seems, the medium was diminished. A change in a digital component can do this. As a fix, i changed the xlr cable between the dac and pre for a greasier one. Thing are back to what i like: a bit more meat on the bone. What a change in the jitter pattern can do is quite amazing. I have never liked the sound of this xlr cable so much. Everything is a matter of sinergy, but you have to take care of the fondamental problems first, like jitter, distorsion, noise and so on. 

2. The benefits of the intona so far are:

-better imaging, including better localisation, more air around the instruments, wider and deeper soundstage
-better attacks and decays
-cleaner timbers, more expressivity in them as a consequence
-darker background
-ambiance cues, for instance echos can easilly be heard (especially evident with a live recording of Vladimir Sidorov, playing now in my room)
-better seperation between the instruments, which implies increased resolution

To quantify the change, i would say the impact is comparable as that of installing the breeze in my system, which was significant. You need a transparent setup i suppose to get all the benefits. But of course, if your computer is already perfectly isolated and usb ports perfectly timed and clean, you should get no benefit whatsoever.

These are all early impressions, but overall, i am happy with this purchase.

My biggest complaint is with the in/out configutation: it is far from convernient in a typical audio setup. In my setup, the intona has to lay on the top of the pre, sideways, to avoid bending the usb cables too much... Looks odd.


----------



## schneller

freda said:


> I
> If you have a groud loop, you need the intona or some sort of galavanic isolation if you cannot get rid of it otherwise. I like external devices because they cannot be contaminated with the rfi and emi that are strongly present inside a pc. Seems however that you need a usb reclocker after the intona, like the regen, and a fancy psu to power it, to get the best results. I will try to comfirm this by using the intona with and without the wyrd after it. I will also try with and without a jitterbug inside an unused port.
> 
> The best bang for the buck seems in favor of the usb card but it does not fix a ground loop, to this day.
> ...


 
  
 What about this external USB hub from SOTM? 
 http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM3.html#1


----------



## schneller

I keep shaking my head when I read threads like this.
  
 I mean, let's picture your average PC with the following...
  
 -Audio USB card (Paul Pang, SOTM, JCAT, etc.) ... up to $460
 -This feeds into an Intona ... up to $350
 -This feeds into Regen ... $175
 -Of course we need at least two AQ Jitterbugs ... $200 (one never seems to be enough in the threads I read)
 -Now we need at least 3x 0.8m audiophile USB cables from Curious Cables ... up to $1020
 -Finally, we need an LPS for each the USB card, Intona, and Regen ... $500 ea. ... so $1500
  
_(Keep in mind we haven't even 'treated' the PC with fan/SATA line filters, audiophile-grade SATA cables, etc.)_
  
 Total price to clean up our USB chain: $3705 USD or $1500 USD more than the Yiggy DAC at the final end of the chain!
  
 Of course you'd have the messiest setup imaginable and need to go buy a new AV cabinet to conceal it all.
  
*YOU ALL ARE NUTS!!!*


----------



## FredA

schneller said:


> What about this external USB hub from SOTM?
> http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM3.html#1





This is a bit expensive and does not deal with ground loop or ground contamination. I wil retry the intona without a wyrd. If is as good on its own or close to it, i would recommend it as a better bargain. You might be able to buy get a used Paul Pang for much less money. Haven't tried any of these usb cards by the ways. The intona is still improving as well.


----------



## FredA

schneller said:


> I keep shaking my head when I read threads like this.
> 
> I mean, let's picture your average PC with the following...
> 
> ...




You may not need all this. In some cases, you probably get 95% of the benefits with just one component or two. All of the above together might not sound so good. At some point, someone will come up with an effective and complete solution within the ddc, or maybe just one addtional box.


----------



## xrobbo

Hello,
 I'm going to join the group of those who praise the Intona. I'm using it with a ifi micro idsd and it has been a huge improvement.  The SQ has improved significantly, especially in terms of more clarity and separation, and better bass.
  
 I was wondering whether someone has tried to feed the intona with a y usb cable that separates power from data, and in case what has been the result.


----------



## rb2013

schneller said:


> I keep shaking my head when I read threads like this.
> 
> I mean, let's picture your average PC with the following...
> 
> ...


 
 LMAO!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Yes - don't know if been officially made part of the DSM - but it's called _Audionervosa.  _Bet they have a pill for that!


----------



## FredA

I have tried to use the intona on its own, i.e. without the schiit wyrd to feed it with ultra-low noise dc (2.5uV). It is not a night and day difference but the wyrd will stay until i have a linear psu that is as good plus a dual-headed usb cable. The Forza usb cable looks like a great deal, would cost me more to build one.

Bottom line, the bass has more impact and the attacks are stronger with the wyrd in. I guess any excellent 5v linear supply would do the trick. 

To sum up my impressions after 48 hours: the intona is a sgnificant improvment. I think it's great. Just listened to Harry Connick "Chanson du vieux carre". It's a very dynamic recording, very hard to reproduce. Well, it was like hearing it for the first time. It was dynamic, resoluted and smooth at the same time, and the bass was very well defined and very tight.


----------



## StryGR

Guys, any experience with Raspberry Pi2 (running Moode or other Linux distro)? Does Intona work?
  
 My current setup is: Raspberry > Wyrd > Chord Hugo.


----------



## FredA

strygr said:


> Guys, any experience with Raspberry Pi2 (running Moode or other Linux distro)? Does Intona work?
> 
> My current setup is: Raspberry > Wyrd > Chord Hugo.




After the wyrd, it should be very effective if i rely on my own experience. Depending on how good the rest of your setup is. But if you an improvment with the wyrd, the intona should add another improvment on top of the first one, i say "should" because you never know until you try. If you do so, let it burn for 72 hours before judging. The bass has never been so visceral with my system. And the soundstage has now very precise layering. Based on my experience, there are very few sub 300$ investments that can bring so much of an upgrade.


----------



## Roseval

rb2013 said:


> it's called _Audionervosa.  _Bet they have a pill for that!


 
 No, they don't. The simple cure is to buy some more gear,it really helps


----------



## rb2013

roseval said:


> No, they don't. The simple cure is to buy some more gear,it really helps


 

 Do you think my wife will buy - 'it's doctor's orders...'


----------



## borrego

I ordered a standard version of the Intona isolator earlier today. From the Intona FAQ, unit of orders placed after 8th Jan would have latest firmware working better with XMOS receivers. (http://intona.eu/en/answer/1235)

I did not ordered the non-blinking LED, believing a blinking LED would draw less current and any 14Hz noise, if it ever exists, won't be audible.


----------



## FredA

borrego said:


> I ordered a standard version of the Intona isolator earlier today. From the Intona FAQ, unit of orders placed after 8th Jan would have latest firmware working better with XMOS receivers. (http://intona.eu/en/answer/1235)
> 
> I did not ordered the non-blinking LED, believing a blinking LED would draw less current and any 14Hz noise, if it ever exists, won't be audible.


 
  
 Have no problem with my xmos-based breeze audio. Very happy with this product.


----------



## borrego

I just received the Intona standard version isolator. It took just two and a half days for it to arrive Hong Kong from Germany. For handling shipping alone, Intona beats both Uptone, Schitt.
  
 Early impression with my SMSL M8 DAC (with XMOS chip) is good. Installation is just plug and play. I feel there is slight increase in sound stage and focus with my Grado SR325e.
  
 I shall take the Intona home tonight to try it with my audio-gd Reference5.32 mod with Amanero USB interface.


----------



## prot

schneller said:


> I keep shaking my head when I read threads like this.
> 
> I mean, let's picture your average PC with the following...
> 
> ...



+100 couldn't agree more. Especially since I tried many of those tricks (usb cables, hubs, battery power, DDCs) and rarely heard any diffs .. only from some ddcs. 
I guess those things will make a diff if you have ground loops, dirty power, very noisy pcs, badly isolated DACs etc.. but those are all issues that must be corrected somewhere else .. and for much less money. 
Anyway, still curious about the intona, guess my audionervosa is still not cured


----------



## borrego

The Intona isolator brings similar improvement to my home audio-gd Reference 5.32 with Amanero USB interface setup: Increased tone/texture separation and deeper sound stage. What appeared to be a single tone before is now multiple tones separated, though It makes some recording sounding less warm.
  
 It also helps preserving the same high quality playback even my notebook is busy doing multitasking. I think the Intona is well worth the price if the computer using for playback is not a dedicated music server.
  
 BTW, I am using cheap two Foxconn OEM USB printer cables (1.8m and 0.6m), with ferrite beads on both ends, connecting the Intona to my notebook and to the Reference 5.32. The two USB cables cost me less than CNY30 (US$4) from taobao.


----------



## trung224

Does anyone try the Intona with Geek Pulse DAC? I am very interested in this little device, but from the records in computeraudiophile, some DACs still need USB hub like the Regen/Wyrd to connect with computer.


----------



## bimmer100

I have two friends with that Dac. I can bring my intona industrial over to test with them. 
 the industrial is supposed to be a little more compatible with all devices. not sure why. thats what the manufacturer said
  
 the pulse, unfortunately uses usb power for some insane reason. So the intona really will benefit for that device if it can provide enough power for the pulse. 
  
 I really cringe when manufacturers use usb power. but the intona will save the day. 
  
 I will try to report back when I get a chance to try it with the Pulse.


----------



## bimmer100

prot said:


> +100 couldn't agree more. Especially since I tried many of those tricks (usb cables, hubs, battery power, DDCs) and rarely heard any diffs .. only from some ddcs.
> I guess those things will make a diff if you have ground loops, dirty power, very noisy pcs, badly isolated DACs etc.. but those are all issues that must be corrected somewhere else .. and for much less money.
> Anyway, still curious about the intona, guess my audionervosa is still not cured


 
  
  
 usb cables, hubs, battery power, DDCs will have less differences when you have power implementation issues.
  
 well battery power is not a good route anyways. ultra low noise linear psu is much better. something 30uV or less, and transient response to be very low.
  
 the intona will surely make the most difference on machines that are not setup with the cleanest of power.  


> "I guess those things will make a diff if you have ground loops, dirty power, very noisy pcs, badly isolated DACs etc.. but those are all issues that must be corrected somewhere else .. and for much less money."


 
 sometimes there isn't many options to correct these issues for "cheap" please share your experiences if you don't mind.
  
  
 I've gone to balanced AC power and pretty much eliminated noise issues.


----------



## elviscaprice

trung224 said:


> Does anyone try the Intona with Geek Pulse DAC? I am very interested in this little device, but from the records in computeraudiophile, some DACs still need USB hub like the Regen/Wyrd to connect with computer.


 
  
  
 Your probably going to want a reclocker like the Regen after the Intona anyways, just to handle the jitter created by the Intona.  Also the Regen does a great job with impedance.  A few folks have been reporting that powering the Regen by battery after the Intona give them the best SQ.  Seems that this will not create any ground plane noise after the Intona has done such a wonderful job of eliminating it.  I'll be giving this a go soon and report back.


----------



## trung224

bimmer100 said:


> I have two friends with that Dac. I can bring my intona industrial over to test with them.
> the industrial is supposed to be a little more compatible with all devices. not sure why. thats what the manufacturer said
> 
> the pulse, unfortunately uses usb power for some insane reason. So the intona really will benefit for that device if it can provide enough power for the pulse.
> ...


 
 Thanks bimmer100. I have the Uptone Regen with linear power supply, and it works great with my setup. But some people say that the Intona is even better (and provide improvement in some DAC which Regen can't improve), and it does not need external power to function whic is a plus for me. My only concern is that the Intona is incompatible with some DAC (and the Pulse can be one of them)


----------



## Superdad

trung224 said:


> Thanks bimmer100. I have the Uptone Regen with linear power supply, and it works great with my setup. But some people say that the Intona is even better (and provide improvement in some DAC which Regen can't improve), and it does not need external power to function whic is a plus for me. My only concern is that the Intona is incompatible with some DAC (and the Pulse can be one of them)


 

 Well the Intona and REGEN accomplish two entirely different things--and they are complimentary to one another.  So it is not an either/or situation, and many people are using the two together--but the REGEN should ALWAYS be the last device, feeding the DAC.  Signal integrity and impedance match are highest that way.
  
 I too have a Geek Pulse among my DACs and can not get my Intona to work at all without the REGEN following it.  Supposedly there is a firmware update to the Intona that fixes that, but I have not looked into sending my unit back to Germany to get it.


----------



## motberg

In my setup and with my listening preferences the Regen is complimentary to the Intona. As of now I consider the Intona a "must have" for my system and the Regen a nice touch of improvement over the base Intona output. 
 I am using battery power for the Regen to maintain the Intona isolation. This is a 9V rechargeable battery PS used for guitar effects pedals.http://www.joyoaudio.com/en/product/show_155.html  
 I had posted my initial impressions on the Regen thread a few days ago - but want to add this warning about the power supply: THE CENTER PIN ON THE JOYO OUTPUTS IS NEGATIVE - THE REGEN IS POSITIVE CENTER PIN.
 This is not a problem in practice because the Joyo kit includes a polarity reversing 2.1mm power extension cable... everything is well explained in the Joyo manual.. the battery pack is plug-and-play with the Regen as long as you use the polarity reversing cable... ( I disconnect the charger from the wall when playing music.... The Joyo costs about 50 USD here in China)
  
 I see a mention was made to the Intona FAQ - here is the URL: http://intona.eu/en/answer/1000 .(just press the FIND ANSWER button to get at their entire FAQ.)
 Besides the Intona isolation, from the FAQ: 
*“By using a technology well known in digital communication systems called Spread Spectrum, any harmonics produced through periodic packet transmission (like 8kHz packet noise) could be eliminated.”*
 So my take is the Intona isolates, eliminates some noise, then reclocks... this probably provides a good base for the Regen to do its thing...
 I understand battery power may not be the perfect solution, so I have one of those new iFi DC Purifier things on the way.. seems like a good thing to have in the spare parts box anyways .....
 ..... at least until we see what the new mystery Uptone PS is all about.... 
  
 I have been listening to this Intona>battery/Regen combo now for about a week, and tried various combinations to make sure I attributed any sound quality changes to the correct device. I had worried and expected that adding the Regen/PS/cable would make things worse, but I think using good cables and the battery PS maybe helped prevent any gross problems.
  
 My perception of the Intona contribution still stands as per my previous posts (Post #9, 16, and 38 in this thread). Top to bottom, everything is clearer.. more like what I would expect to hear during the recording process. Perhaps the most striking benefit, and maybe a cumulative effect of various small improvements, is an initial perception that the sound field seemed to have no relation to the speakers (this is compared to my system without the Intona). The instruments are just there.. not floating - not detached from the speakers -  the initial impression was that the sound elements were just there in the room. Maybe I am readjusting to this effect now - so things in my room are still not quite as nice as my old #1 memory reference for sound stage (Beveridge speakers, maybe Model 2's, playing some Carly Simon..) but this initial impression of improved spatial performance when I initially installed the Intona was pretty cool....
  
 Immediately I noticed that adding the battery powered Regen maybe added some bass depth, maybe ever so slightly mushy, but overall an improvement.
 Also initially I thought there was some detail loss in the mids and highs when adding the Regen, but it could just be that things were just hotter with the Intona alone.Overall detail with the Intona/Regen is fine, my speakers are probably not capable of resolving things in such a fine sense that I could say which configuration was most like the recording.
  
 The strongest effect of the Regen in my system was an increase in micro-dynamics, not additional sharp transients, but overall a more natural attack. I listen to mostly older progressive rock and a lot of the dynamic bursts have a kind of soft envelope. For example in distorted guitar amplifier playing... instead of just having the distortion tone changing in tone and amplitude, you also get the push of the tone/distortion mix pressure...visually somewhat like a jet vapor trail..and the pressure change can be felt on sensitive areas of your face. Other similar direct points of reference I can make comparing lightly-processed recorded sounds to live would be; tambourine strikes, mic pops, Leslie cabinets, Wurlitzer electric piano, hard strummed acoustic guitar, kick drum pedal hits, cymbal strikes,etc.. The dynamics of these types of sounds are more like my recollections of live performances. Also the fun stuff like sinking bass synth pads submerging into a wash of floor level dark pressure become more enjoyable, and special effects like Q-Sound are naturally more prominently displayed.
  
 So overall, these improvements to the USB delivery chain help me better appreciate better the artistry, craftsmanship and uniqueness these extraordinary people posses that make these records.
  
 Obviously USB still needs some work to realize the full potential of what supposedly should be a simple transfer of bits from here to there... In the meantime, I will happily live with an occasional kit change in an effort to extract the artists intentions and play them back in my personal musical-art gallery. My system many years ago used LP records as a source (I "backed-up" my heavily used records to R2R), very nice sound, but the convenience to point-and-click an entire record collection to me is worth the effort..       
  
 My W4S Recovery was just delivered today      
  
 Here is my digital chain as a point of reference.... 

 Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS,  PPA V2 USB card (battery), 32GB OS SSD (battery), 256GB SSD/LPS for primary music (all WAV files), SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and SSD suspension blocks, WIN2012 core mode and AO, JPlay6 Mini, Ultrastream/Hibernate, PPA 1.8M dual USB cable, Intona standard USB isolator, 0.5M Pangea USB cable, Regen/battery, PPA Regen USB cable, Tanly DDC via HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S to Audio-GD M7.


----------



## bimmer100

motberg said:


> In my setup and with my listening preferences the Regen is complimentary to the Intona. As of now I consider the Intona a "must have" for my system and the Regen a nice touch of improvement over the base Intona output.
> I am using battery power for the Regen to maintain the Intona isolation. This is a 9V rechargeable battery PS used for guitar effects pedals.http://www.joyoaudio.com/en/product/show_155.html
> I had posted my initial impressions on the Regen thread a few days ago - but want to add this warning about the power supply: THE CENTER PIN ON THE JOYO OUTPUTS IS NEGATIVE - THE REGEN IS POSITIVE CENTER PIN.
> This is not a problem in practice because the Joyo kit includes a polarity reversing 2.1mm power extension cable... everything is well explained in the Joyo manual.. the battery pack is plug-and-play with the Regen as long as you use the polarity reversing cable... ( I disconnect the charger from the wall when playing music.... The Joyo costs about 50 USD here in China)
> ...




Interesting that you got positive results with the regen after the intona. That was definitely not my experience. I still found the regen to make be sound distorted or artificial especially on be top end. Just didn't sound relaxed and natural, but more noisey imho. Also quite surprised you are using 9V battery as I believe those are known to be slow on transient response and would likely make things sound mushy as you said. Definitely not improve the sound when it comes to speed and decay. But can lower noise for sure. But something like a sbooster psu, Paul Hynes, mojo audio psu would be ideal for best sq with full dynamic range, ultra low peak to peak noise and and superior transient response. I know if you are going battery, lifepo4 is the way to go, but even the psu's above are 3-4times as good as the lifepo4 battery.


----------



## elviscaprice

motberg said:


> So my take is the Intona isolates, eliminates some noise, then reclocks...


 
  
 The Intona does not do any reclocking.   Yes, the battery power for the Regen is the key.
  
 EDIT:  Okay, they say the Intona does reclock.  Interesting.


----------



## borrego

elviscaprice said:


> The Intona does not do any reclocking.   Yes, the battery power for the Regen is the key.


 
  
 Not true. The Intona does reclock (http://intona.eu/en/answer/1239). Actually by design the device won't even work if it does not reclock.
  
 I see little point adding a Regen after the Intona except (i) you already owned a Regen, (ii) you need more than 300ma USB power


----------



## elviscaprice

borrego said:


> Not true. The Intona does reclock (http://intona.eu/en/answer/1239). Actually by design the device won't even work if it does not reclock.
> 
> I see little point adding a Regen after the Intona except (i) you already owned a Regen, (ii) you need more than 300ma USB power


 
  
 I saw that, about the reclocking. 
 See Superdad's reply above about Regen.


----------



## Superdad

motberg said:


> I have been listening to this Intona>battery/Regen combo now for about a week, and tried various combinations to make sure I attributed any sound quality changes to the correct device. I had worried and expected that adding the Regen/PS/cable would make things worse, but I think using good cables and the battery PS maybe helped prevent any gross problems.
> 
> ….


 
  
  
 Great report Motberg.  The descriptions of what you hear are quite vivid!
  


bimmer100 said:


> ... But something like a sbooster psu, Paul Hynes, mojo audio psu would be ideal for best sq with full dynamic range, ultra low peak to peak noise and and superior transient response. I know if you are going battery, lifepo4 is the way to go, but even the psu's above are 3-4times as good as the lifepo4 battery.


  

 If one wants to maintain total galvanic isolation when using an outboard power supply--without having to resort to batteries--the only LPS I am aware of which "floats" the DC ground (being isolated from the AC mains and chassis ground) is our own JS-2 choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7A unit.  But at $925 it is a bit overkill for just a REGEN or the like.  Our forthcoming "mystery" 3.3/5/7V 1-amp supply will likewise be 100% isolated form the mains--both on the ground and in all ways (like a battery, but not a battery).


----------



## TopQuark

bimmer100 said:


> Interesting that you got positive results with the regen after the intona. That was definitely not my experience. I still found the regen to make be sound distorted or artificial especially on be top end. Just didn't sound relaxed and natural, but more noisey imho.


 
  
 +1 with this. I got the Regen in addition to Intona out of curiosity and the rave I see for some using this combo. It didn't work for me either.  Sold the Regen. I am using SOtM PCIE fed by an LPS so I do not know if that made the difference.
  
  


trung224 said:


> Does anyone try the Intona with Geek Pulse DAC? I am very interested in this little device, but from the records in computeraudiophile, some DACs still need USB hub like the Regen/Wyrd to connect with computer.


 
  
 I am using Intona with Pulse DAC XF-Infinity. It is a great combo. It works perfectly.  There is dramatic change in the result - depth, dark, clean bass, highs, and everything in between. 
  
 Just to note, do not use the long LH Labs USB cable after the Intona.  It will not work. There isn't enough juice to push the signal to the DAC.  My set-up is PC (signal only) ► SotM PCIE (external LPS power) ► LH Labs split cable for signal ► LH Labs Pulse LPS4 ► Intona (signal from SOtM) ► Pulse X-Infinity (fed by LH Labs LPS4)


----------



## JesseA

Have the intona industrial daisy chained with a Regen Amber and I think it's end game for me


----------



## FredA

jessea said:


> Have the intona industrial daisy chained with a Regen Amber and I think it's end game for me




The intona is great. Pay attention to usb cables. I tried a few and, because of impedance matching and other considerations, some will sound better than others with the intona. For me, the intona has given a precison to soundstaging that is simply awesome.


----------



## rigo

Which USB cable did you choose?


----------



## FredA

rigo said:


> Which USB cable did you choose?




I have this set-up:

 mini late 2012 8gb ssd -> jitterbug -> schiit audio usb cable (straightwire) -> schiit wyrd -> supra 0.7 m -> intona regular version -> ab-system mkii usb 1m -> breeze du-u8 modded with crysteks -> rj45 i2s (cat6a .5m) -> audio-gd master 7 (pll off)

A-b system will not take my orders lately but i can tell you their usb is the best i own and it's under 35 usd... First class build quality, better than the supra by a margin. This cable makes a significant difference.


----------



## peteg

freda said:


> I have this set-up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Will the 6N MKII USB cable work with my 2.0 "B" male input, can't see their picture very good and does not say if it's 2.0 or 3.0 USB.


----------



## bimmer100

I sold my Intona maybe a month ago but I miss it now that I have a laptop and wish I had it for the mobile meets. It makes such a big diff. I put the funds to good use for my DIY projects. Likely will buy another intona later on. I notice it's gone for sure  mostly on my laptop though. But I'm quite happy with the supra. And lh labs 2g split. Basically both are on par with each other imho. I spend my money elsewhere than on Ian cables. Likely will sell the 2g split cable soon


----------



## FredA

peteg said:


> freda said:
> 
> 
> > I have this set-up:
> ...




It is a standard a to b cable. Like the supra and others. Nothing special about the connectors. There is a double run of wire, one for power, one for data.


----------



## drez

Not meaning to thread crap (of course this means the exact opposite)...  But...
  
 Nothing I have ever put in between the computer and the DAC or DDC has ever improved all areas.  Typically there will be softening of the sound, more relaxed, less aggressive, which can appear to help systems which have a problem with being too aggressive in treble etc. but at the same time you are typically losing low level detail.
  
 This is the typical situation of fixing one problem by creating another.  If the price is low enough, and the USB signal/power bad enough, then MAYBE *one* of these devices might help.  However if using multiple devices of considerable cost with little certainty that what is being done is actually improving things, even in principle, this is investing way too much in bandaid measures rather than fixing the root cause of the problem.  You never know with these devices if the net result will be an improvement or detrimental.
  
 In my mind the best solution is a purpose built computer, or else some other low noise transport eg. CD or SD card player.  
  
 For the music PC with built in storage, In my experience a good USB PCIE card (JCAT IME) can't do much harm and does a lot of good.  Setting up the BIOS to minimise noise within the computer (not gimping via underclock IME) also doesn't hurt and helps things.  Using the best power supply eg. a low noise switcher or in best case full linear supply or hybrid linear supply (eg. PICO) also does good without doing harm.  Using good software (not over-tweaked software) also does good and no harm (I have good experience with JRiver for windows or headless Linux).
  
 Streaming style devices, while not something I have direct experience with, could be another easy to use solution eg with low power network audio endpoint eg RASPI or one of the audiophile targeted low power streaming appliances.  I'm personally not even sure this would be better in fact because we are just moving the problem of computer noise elsewhere, and can't really be sure that a lower power machine really will produce less noise (until someone actually measures this) and won't introduce new unforseen problems due to low processing performance, compromises to fit into small space etc.  Still you can purchase one of these prupose built streaming devices for less than some of these USB tweaks...


----------



## yuhengtiger

I just got a intona standard version. I am using it in a chain like iMac -> intona -> curious usb cable 6 feet -> Regen -> Schiit ygg. 

But the iMac can't recognize the ygg dac now. Can anyone suggest why? Thanks.


----------



## FredA

yuhengtiger said:


> [COLOR=333333]I just got a intona standard version. I am using it in a chain like iMac -> intona -> curious [/COLOR]usb[COLOR=333333] cable 6 feet -> Regen -> Schiit ygg. [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]But the iMac can't recognize the ygg [/COLOR]dac[COLOR=333333] now. Can anyone suggest why? Thanks.[/COLOR]




Try using a different usb cable. There could be an impedance mismatch.

Or else, communicate with the company. The original firmware versions had compatibility issues with some devices, like xmos,


----------



## TopQuark

yuhengtiger said:


> I just got a intona standard version. I am using it in a chain like iMac -> intona -> curious usb cable 6 feet -> Regen -> Schiit ygg.
> 
> But the iMac can't recognize the ygg dac now. Can anyone suggest why? Thanks.


 

 The 6 ft Curious cable after the Intona is too long.  Use the Curious after iMac and a shorter cable after Intona.  Try removing the Regen just to try too.  In my case, it is better without the Regen anyway.  Intona needs a lot of power to drive the signal out and a long 6 ft cable is not going to cut it.


----------



## Superdad

Well I can't get my Intona to work into even the 20cm Curious cable.


----------



## yuhengtiger

topquark said:


> The 6 ft Curious cable after the Intona is too long.  Use the Curious after iMac and a shorter cable after Intona.  Try removing the Regen just to try too.  In my case, it is better without the Regen anyway.  Intona needs a lot of power to drive the signal out and a long 6 ft cable is not going to cut it.


 
 Thank you for the reminder! Yes, after I switched the curious cable and the chain to be : iMac -> 6 feet curious -> intona -> short data only usb -> regen -> ygg. Everything works now. So you are right, the intona can't drive the 6 feet curious cable.


----------



## yuhengtiger

freda said:


> Try using a different usb cable. There could be an impedance mismatch.
> 
> Or else, communicate with the company. The original firmware versions had compatibility issues with some devices, like xmos,


 
 A different usb cable works, as well as switching the curious cable to before intona. Thanks!


----------



## motberg

superdad said:


> Well I can't get my Intona to work into even the 20cm Curious cable.


 

 mine works perfectly with 5 different short USB cables... Curious, PPA (2 versions), Elijah and Pagena....


----------



## Superdad

motberg said:


> mine works perfectly with 5 different short USB cables... Curious, PPA (2 versions), Elijah and Pagena....


 

 I did just update the firmware on it, so I need to try again with the Curious.  I got the firmware update primarily in the hopes the Intona would work into my XMOS input DACs.


----------



## rigo

motberg said:


> mine works perfectly with 5 different short USB cables... Curious, PPA (2 versions), Elijah and Pagena....




What length is considered short?


----------



## TopQuark

superdad said:


> I did just update the firmware on it, so I need to try again with the Curious.  I got the firmware update primarily in the hopes the Intona would work into my XMOS input DACs.


 

 When did you get your Intona?  I'm just curious because I got mine mid-January and it works fine on an XMOS.


----------



## motberg

rigo said:


> What length is considered short?


 

 The Pagena is 0.5M, the others are/were 0.2 M to 0.3 M...
 The Intona is powered by a battery powered PPA v2 card, then from the Intona to a W4S Recovery (battery PS), then to a Tanly XMOS DDC... works perfect using Win2000 server/AO/JPlay .
 IIRC, I also tried the Curious link in this chain, worked OK, but I preferred the PPA....


----------



## Superdad

topquark said:


> When did you get your Intona?  I'm just curious because I got mine mid-January and it works fine on an XMOS.


 

 Mine is an early one, serial #53, bought direct from Intona in Germany before the firmware updates.  I am in possession of the their FPGA reprogramming board, just waiting to be told by Daniel where I a supposed to send it next on its American tour.


----------



## taz23

superdad said:


> Well the Intona and REGEN accomplish two entirely different things--and they are complimentary to one another.  So it is not an either/or situation, and many people are using the two together--but the REGEN should ALWAYS be the last device, feeding the DAC.  Signal integrity and impedance match are highest that way.
> 
> I too have a Geek Pulse among my DACs and can not get my Intona to work at all without the REGEN following it.  Supposedly there is a firmware update to the Intona that fixes that, but I have not looked into sending my unit back to Germany to get it.


 

 I have an Intona just delivered from Germany (with the latest firmware), but it does not like the Geek Pulse XFi.  I do not have the REGEN, and I am using LH Labs 1G cables and/or custom USB cables (all about 1m long). 
  
 I suspect the current out from the Intona is too low to establish the 5v handshake, but I do not have any shorter cables to see if that helps (as suggested by TopQuark). 
  
 I would love to hear the Geek Pulse XFi with the Intona in between.  Any suggestions will be most appreciated.


----------



## Superdad

taz23 said:


> I have an Intona just delivered from Germany (with the latest firmware), but it does not like the Geek Pulse XFi.  I do not have the REGEN, and I am using LH Labs 1G cables and/or custom USB cables (all about 1m long).
> 
> I suspect the current out from the Intona is too low to establish the 5v handshake, but I do not have any shorter cables to see if that helps (as suggested by TopQuark).
> 
> I would love to hear the Geek Pulse XFi with the Intona in between.  Any suggestions will be most appreciated.


 

 Well I just tried my Intona (with newly updated firmware) with my Geek Pulse and it works fine. (It used to not work with it unless I had a REGEN after the Intona.  That still sounds better anyway.)


----------



## BlakeT

taz23 said:


> I have an Intona just delivered from Germany (with the latest firmware), but it does not like the Geek Pulse XFi.  I do not have the REGEN, and I am using LH Labs 1G cables and/or custom USB cables (all about 1m long).
> 
> I suspect the current out from the Intona is too low to establish the 5v handshake, but I do not have any shorter cables to see if that helps (as suggested by TopQuark).
> 
> I would love to hear the Geek Pulse XFi with the Intona in between.  Any suggestions will be most appreciated.


 
  
 I have had the Intona in my system with a Pulse Xfi, using LH Labs 1G, 2G, 10G, Curious Cables and others (.7m to 1m in length, except for a Curious Link), as well and it worked flawlessly, but I do have a Berkeley Alpha in between.  However, the Berkeley does require the 5v handshake.


----------



## taz23

superdad said:


> Well I just tried my Intona (with newly updated firmware) with my Geek Pulse and it works fine. (It used to not work with it unless I had a REGEN after the Intona.  That still sounds better anyway.)


 

 Thanks to SuperDad and TopQuark, I bought a cheap generic USB cable that is 30cm long, and that worked with the Geek Pulse XFi.
  
 So I guess it is an issue of longer cables causing a drop in the current.  Burning in of the Intona unit starts now...


----------



## Rony Carlos

MY Audio Pc didn't see my DAC(NAD M51) after connected Intona (industrail) in between. What happened?
  
 First, My PC can recognized DAC. Song can be played. but after a minute, the sound stopped. Then PC didn't recognized my DAC.
 I tried to restart, shutdown... but it still happened the same.
 What should i do?


----------



## taz23

In my case, the PC could not recognise the DAC in the first place. So we might have a different situation.

Perhaps try a shorter cable to see if that helps.


----------



## motberg

rony carlos said:


> MY Audio Pc didn't see my DAC(NAD M51) after connected Intona (industrail) in between. What happened?
> 
> First, My PC can recognized DAC. Song can be played. but after a minute, the sound stopped. Then PC didn't recognized my DAC.
> 
> ...



Try unplugging and plugging the input side of the Intona to reset the power
Try a different short usb cable between the Intona and the DAC


----------



## Rony Carlos

Already tried. It still be the same.
 I'm so worried about it. Intona don't reply my mail yet.


----------



## TopQuark

rony carlos said:


> Already tried. It still be the same.
> I'm so worried about it. Intona don't reply my mail yet.


 
 How long is your cable from Intona to the DAC?


----------



## NAIDIVER

topquark said:


> How long is your cable from Intona to the DAC?



1meter standard cable. It's ok now. Daniel mailed me back he will send a new one for me tomorrow.

Actually he's nice.


----------



## qqqfunny

rony carlos said:


> MY Audio Pc didn't see my DAC(NAD M51) after connected Intona (industrail) in between. What happened?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Hi,Rony.
Accoring to what I know that Intona can not compatible with some USB cable, you can try to connect one generic usb cable or A/B usb adaptor between Intona and DAC , It should work. As for what kind of usb cable to be applied between the PC and Intona, any cable can work.


----------



## Rony Carlos

Ooopsss. I forget replying its updated in here. Sorry.
 Daniel sent me a new one and everything's fine now.
 It's compatible to any cables i have, JCAT reference, AQ forrest (which 3 m. long) and some others.
 Now i change my dac to Brooklyn and it also work well.n ^ ^


----------



## Middy

Intona people I am asking on a few threads/ Sites to do a simple.experiment on shielding. 3- 4 wraps of ordinary kitchen aluminium foil around the intona. Just a little around the incoming and outgoing cables just leave no gaps.... A silly experiment cheap and seconds to do...

Post if you hear any changes or nothing at all... if you do what's your DAC. .

http://jplay.eu/ml_post_slider/jcat-usb-isolator/

this popped up and it seems to be the intona internals but with an aluminium extruded shell.
Someone said they heard a difference with shielding... Easy to shield the inside but a 1 minute effort can see if it works with many experienced ears..

Cheers if you try it and let us know...

Keep smiling

Dave


----------



## borrego

middy said:


> Intona people I am asking on a few threads/ Sites to do a simple.experiment on shielding. 3- 4 wraps of ordinary kitchen aluminium foil around the intona. Just a little around the incoming and outgoing cables just leave no gaps.... A silly experiment cheap and seconds to do...
> 
> Post if you hear any changes or nothing at all... if you do what's your DAC. .
> 
> ...


 
  
 It all depends on how much EMF in the environment. If the environment is relatively absent of strong EMF, shielding or no shielding makes little difference.
  
 I place my Intona right next to my ASDL modem. I do find placing the Intona 10cm further away from the modem make it to sound slightly better.


----------



## drez

.


----------



## Middy

Asking for a silly experiment and advice is hard on 3 sites....
Me being me .. I will strip the intona case and line it with copper tape make a faraday cage. I can't be sure of a difference as I fixed a ropey consumer unit for my mains supply and that has made a change...So me turning my intona into a baked spud was hard to notice a change. What mm of shielding works and what metals ferrous? for EMI RFI I don't know..
An underlying alteria motive getting more knowledgeable people giving answers but a few people trying kitchen roll does start the ball rolling.
I am not at the point of a tin foil hat 
... A few people trying for no money and less time than wrapping sandwichs
is a start on RFI EMI and it gets people thinking. It's a laugh at least.
and maybe some useful answers for all..


----------



## Middy

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/showthread.php?t=26815
Which one to buy: UpTone USB REGEN or Intona USB Isolator?

Any thoughts or advice welcome been fun some hard facts or advicE on EMC RFI
1 positive result so far.. Most fun I've had in ages...

Keep smiling

Dave


----------



## rsbrsvp

Is a one meter usb cable from the intona to yggy dac to long?


----------



## Middy

I wouldn't know for sure and not getting into the cable debate... 
A quick way would be try a cheap small and long of the same brand..is it a difference to your ears? Cheaper than an expensive brand by a margin and you have Printer cables spare..
This hobby is a pain....but good luck trying brother..


We did find that copper foiling the Intona did make a sonic difference. But hey Ho...An aluminium case is coming and some MU Metal foil so the experiment isn't over....
I ve turned into the cheap.ass version of shield....


----------



## rsbrsvp

I was not talking sonics- just wanted to know if a one meter cable from the intone will make the connection to the yggy dac?


----------



## Hi-Phi

I think I may sell my white case industrial Intona. I really want to pick up a new black cased industrial Intona from KitsuneHifi.com. Good news is that they have them in stock and are a USA distributor. 
  
If anyone wants to buy a brand new industrial intona let me know.


----------



## Middy

The shielding has worked quite well. The black does look nice though...

Have you seen the JPLAY Jcat version.
Intona internals thier case...


----------



## Hi-Phi

middy said:


> The shielding has worked quite well. The black does look nice though...
> 
> Have you seen the JPLAY Jcat version.
> Intona internals thier case...


 
  
 Yeah I have seen it, very tempting. 
  
 Which one do you like better?


----------



## Middy

I am having a play with shielding for the Intona. People have taken the piss but it seems to be working. 
The Jplay is metal black and smaller form factor but more expensive. The other is just black plastic.
The Jplay offers some shielding but I think you can't have the lights on. .

A few of us have tried copper and aluminum. I am getting some MU Metal foil... 

Money no object the Jplay looks sweeeet. ..

But the shielding we trying is to improve what you have at little cost...

Dave


----------



## Hi-Phi

Very interesting. 
  
  
 So what effects are you seeing with the improved shielding?


----------



## Middy

As I said on CA 3 people isn't a fact and shielding is like how loud the party is next door and who is talking verse your wall thickness. 
We ain't experts just people trying stuff. I am hearing improved precision and a little more sound stage.

I am using Yosi Horikawa Bubbles as the test track. 
So far we used tin foil and copper some have used thicker cast aluminium case for small electrical jobs. I am waiting for mine to be delivered and some MU metal... But this is an experiment and RFI EMI factors will vary and we have no hard testing capability.
No fancy Digital eye diagrams just a bit memory comparison's
..

Was just a bit of fun with kitchen foil. The intona is just plastic....

Other than a 3 way thumbs up that's it...
I am taking it a bit further for EMI with MU metal. Just different ranges get blocked for RFI and some shaping away from the circuits on EMI.
A bit of advice from the Aerospace electronics engineers in work and a bit of WIKIPEDIA.....

Only real result is a change* ( *What that is to you) Who knows unless you live in your own faraday cage. ..

Try 8-10 layers of foil no gaps on to the beginning of both cables and see if you hear a difference.. Even if you don't like it ..just a cheap silly experiment. ..
Have fun...
Dave☺


----------



## motberg

I have my industrial Intona and all my LPS pretty much wrapped with MuMetal sheets, also use between the DDC and DAC, etc... wherever devices are pretty close together.
  
 I have an economy EMI/RFI meter and the MuMetal blocks EMI well... distance works well also, but sometimes not practical..
  
 Not sure if I hear any difference (I do not have time for detailed testing), but seems cheap enough insurance.....


----------



## Middy

Anything you can add Motberg would be appreciated. The tin foil not very much, The inside with copper tape more noticeable change. But you can never truly know if it is in the mind.
.
More people try..more evidence...
I only offer people to try...and ask for thier thoughts...


----------



## motberg

middy said:


> Anything you can add Motberg would be appreciated. The tin foil not very much, The inside with copper tape more noticeable change. But you can never truly know if it is in the mind.
> .
> More people try..more evidence...
> I only offer people to try...and ask for thier thoughts...


 

 Hi,
 Here are a couple photos. The magnetic field sensors are on the front face of the meter above the selector knob.
 There is a photo of the meter about 2 cm from a DDC powered up. (this is typical for my other equipment, with LPS's showing maybe a little stronger field).
 Then a photo of the same 2 cm distance but with 2 thicknesses of: Fully Annealed MuMETAL Shielding Sheet 0.15mm
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/231740734999?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 The same level of reduction can be gained by a distance of approximately 18 cm without the Mumetal. I am not sure if this results in any audible change, it would be difficult for me to do any valid testing.


----------



## TopQuark

This case looks like a perfect fit. Minimum order is 20 pcs with custom length.
  
 Does anyone have the actual dimension of the Intona PCB?  I wonder if there is enough clearance at the bottom of the board just by inserting it inside.
  
http://www.chinaenclosure.com/products/Aluminum-Box-Enclosure.html


----------



## Middy

They are on the intona web site I think. .


----------



## Middy

I can only say...This has work more than I ever thought it would...
The inner case is now copper lined...
Swapped out the tin foil with a cast aluminium project case. 
The signature is cleaner and more Holographic makes me re listen to what I hear.... But you know how it works...
It's just me saying so.. IMHO...
Give it a try or dont.. I am really happy and a few others also... More suprising the INTONA is so sensitive.....
Here's a few pics and a link to CA thread. It was a shield experiment for RFI EMI. We haven't tryed MU metal...

 





http://www.computeraudiophile.com/showthread.php?t=26815

Note I have rambled on a bit but to hash out issues and get some real info like Motberg's EM MU metal test.Even had John Swenson chip in.. Just some fun but it came good for the plastic cased Intona IMHO....

Have fun regardless
Dave


----------



## MLGrado

Just got my Intona Isolator... the basic version.  WOW
  
  
 If you have a 'dirty' PC source like me... this is a MUST HAVE.  My PC is a custom build with Asus Mainboard and AMD processor.  Regular, non 'audiophile' stuff on the inside... normal fans, power supply.. typical PC.  
  
  
 When connected to my tube amp, one can distinctly hear all the computer 'hash' through my headphones at higher volumes.  As a matter of fact, careful arrangement of the component's power cords is extremely important or I will get a ground loop audible at normal listening levels.  It is NOT optimal for audio in any way, shape or form.  
  
 On the other end, right before my iFi iDSD Micro DAC is a REGEN with a Linear Power Supply connected.  
  
  
 As soon as the Intona was introduced into my system, ALL THE COMPUTER HASH IS GONE.  Quiet as a mouse when amp is turned to full volume.  For this reason alone the Intona is worth it.  Just the peace of mind in knowing my audio system in now completely isolated from the USB output of my computer.  
  
  
 Beyond that though, is the very real audible differences in playback!   I have been fighting a certain hardness or harshness in the upper frequencies for a few weeks now.  Also been having issues with sibilance. NOT ANYMORE.  All that edginess and hardness is GONE.  What is left is a very natural, musical organic sounding presentation.  
  
  
 This device is HIGHLY recommended, especially if you can use it in conjunction with something like the Regen or an iFI iUSB 3.0, Wyred4Sound Recovery, etc... to provide a clean clock in addition the the galvanic isolation.  
  
 I would be curious if any further improvement can be had from getting the more expensive industrial version.  But, I can say without a doubt even the basic model is a worthwhile purchase, especially if you have a PC setup similar to mine.  
  
  
 As far as value is concerned, this is one of the best returns on investment I can remember.  Just a MUST have for USB audio..


----------



## TopQuark

> Originally Posted by *MLGrado* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This device is HIGHLY recommended, especially if you can use it in conjunction with something like the Regen or an iFI iUSB 3.0, Wyred4Sound Recovery, etc... to provide a clean clock in addition the the galvanic isolation.


 
  
 Since you feed the LPS to Regen, that helps provide clean power to Intona but, otherwise, Intona by itself already does the job.  It re-clocks the signal too other than just provide galvanic isolation.


----------



## FredA

mlgrado said:


> Just got my Intona Isolator... the basic version.  WOW
> 
> 
> If you have a 'dirty' PC source like me... this is a MUST HAVE.  My PC is a custom build with Asus Mainboard and AMD processor.  Regular, non 'audiophile' stuff on the inside... normal fans, power supply.. typical PC.
> ...




I value galvanic isolation a lot. My mac mini is connected through an isolation transfo but to complete the isolation, the usb connection has to be isolated as well. The intona does a very good job at this and provides a noticeable sound improvment in my system. For me, it's a no brainer. Much cheaper than a fancy pc.


----------



## rigo

Saw that a black version is now available. Not going to buy a second just yet, so decided to paint the ugly white one.


----------



## rigo




----------



## Middy

Can't recommend enough trying shielding... A metal box you have lying around.. lots of foil but give it a try..
A guy tried his old steel drill case...


----------



## defbear

I will have to try the foil trick and report back. When shielding an electric guitar, I always use copper foil. There is shielding paint available. You have to ground it. Do not think it would apply here. But if it comes in Black paint maybe 
 I have owned and lived with a Schiit Wyrd, AQ Jitterbugs, The Regen and finally the Intona Industrial Version. Since I purchased my Intona direct from Germany, I was too chicken to buy the standard one in case i wanted to return it. Glad Kitsume has them now.  I got the Wyrd as I needed a USB extention and I needed a powered hub to use with phones and tablets. Works great. The Jitterbugs are a surprise. One in-line with the USB cable adds clarity and better bass. The bigger surprise was the Regen. Didn't do a thing for any of my systems. So well reviewed too. Gotta be me somehow. Finally the Intona was a big success with every thing I've used it on. Going from a Macbook to Intona to my Master 11 made a noticeable improvement to the sound, but putting the Intona with a Bimby really improved things. Better bass with better defined edges. Buzzword approved Intona is. I now have a Holo Spring Dac Level 3 and a Singxer su-1 DDC. I haven't tried the Intona with this setup yet. It's in my Bimby/Lyr2-LC setup. I'm going to get another Intona this time in Black to match the Holo Spring/Singxer/Master11/microZOTL setup. I just read someone like the Intona and Regen together. Easy to try. The Intona Industrial version has give an immediate, noticeable improvement to the sound of everything I have tried it on. Bigger Bass, Soundstage and clarity.


----------



## TopQuark

> The bigger surprise was the Regen. Didn't do a thing for any of my systems. So well reviewed too. Gotta be me somehow....  I just read someone like the Intona and Regen together. Easy to try. The Intona Industrial version has give an immediate, noticeable improvement to the sound of everything I have tried it on. Bigger Bass, Soundstage and clarity.


 
  
 No, it's not you. I thought my system was so bad that Regen didn't do anything until Intona came along.  I tried both Regen and Intona in the same chain and Regen still didn't do anything.  I'm running only Intona now and I am in process of adding copper tape inside it as well.


----------



## elviscaprice

The problem with adding a Regen is the power source to the Regen.  It can contaminate the sound also.  Especially if you run the Regen after the Intona (which you should).  Why?  You went thru all that trouble to have the Intona clean the sound with galvanic isolation, only to contaminate it again.  Unless, you use a non contaminated power supply with the Regen.  Then you got something and it works well.  I use the 3.2V LifePo4 battery to power the Regen. 
 Also a clean source of power to the Intona is important.  So I power my PPA usb card with a clean 5V linear power supply, which powers the Intona.
 Also eliminating the 5V power lead in your USB cable is important whenever possible.
  
 I cup my ears with tinfoil.  I figure the last audio component in the chain is the most important.


----------



## Middy

I transport from my phone..I just tried my first 5v hack by connecting a usb hub/ cheap phone charger to usb 5v and just have the data from the phone..Only works with the ground attached...It save my phone battery.... Waiting for a cheap power bank to take the 5V off mains back to battery....
With the 2 spliced together just opposite cables cut..


----------



## Middy

Trying to understand shielding is beyond my basic skills...Maxwell equations faraday...Gauss cross talk eddy currents...Eek. Why we just tried basic shielding..and what we had. 
What frequencys are blocked we don't know. So far an aluminium project box worked.. before that I stripped the Intona and copper lined.. What's attenuated unsure... Thickness...metal type and the local noise.. Shielded cables ..Foil drain wire and copper braid... I tried a earth drain from the project box... Just have an experiment... Aluminium foil is the cheapest..Copper tape...Slug tape..guitar tape Not expensive....

1 guy had copper sheet and did the whole intona outside. Mine tape inside.
some basic diy and the project box is easy....Cast aluminium only 3mm ish thickness...For cable holes......




Just wanted to see what works..


----------



## defbear

elviscaprice said:


> The problem with adding a Regen is the power source to the Regen.  It can contaminate the sound also.  Especially if you run the Regen after the Intona (which you should).  Why?  You went thru all that trouble to have the Intona clean the sound with galvanic isolation, only to contaminate it again.  Unless, you use a non contaminated power supply with the Regen.  Then you got something and it works well.  I use the 3.2V LifePo4 battery to power the Regen.
> Also a clean source of power to the Intona is important.  So I power my PPA usb card with a clean 5V linear power supply, which powers the Intona.
> Also eliminating the 5V power lead in your USB cable is important whenever possible.
> 
> I cup my ears with tinfoil.  I figure the last audio component in the chain is the most important.


What are you using for a battery box and connection for the LifePo4?


----------



## elviscaprice

defbear said:


> What are you using for a battery box and connection for the LifePo4?


 
  
 You don't need a battery box.  Although I do have the battery stuffed inside some foam covering that it came in.  I even added a power switch between the Regen and LIfePo4.  See JKenny mod for further details.  Just using a 3.3V switching power supply soldered to the battery.
  
 Unfortunately I can't paste the link here due to this screwed up editor on this site.  Hey guys it doesn't work well with Windows 10?
  
 Search JKenny Regen


----------



## defbear

elviscaprice said:


> You don't need a battery box.  Although I do have the battery stuffed inside some foam covering that it came in.  I even added a power switch between the Regen and LIfePo4.  See JKenny mod for further details.  Just using a 3.3V switching power supply soldered to the battery.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't paste the link here due to this screwed up editor on this site.  Hey guys it doesn't work well with Windows 10?
> 
> Search JKenny Regen


thank you


----------



## dmance

This product is 100% amazing...esp if you go super short on the PC side using an AB adapter or 15cm good cable.
Stunning USB Audio


----------



## Middy

Ye looking to make a shorter cable.
Driving of a battery was a nice little boost also..


----------



## rigo

dmance said:


> This product is 100% amazing...esp if you go super short on the PC side using an AB adapter or 15cm good cable.
> Stunning USB Audio




Agreed. Will eventually get two more to add to every system at home.


----------



## musickid

I own a schitt modi multibit and imac 27 late 2013. i would like to give the intona standard version a go but i am hesitant after reading compatibility issues with usb cables etc. i am a relative newcomer to pc audio and the usb cables and connects i use are standard £20 ones. qed, cambridge audio etc. at present i don't have the means for expensive audiophile cables. the regen usb seems to work well but the intona seems to yield better results across the board. however with the problems the intona faces i don't know what to do? any advice would be great. basically i am worried my imac won't see or recognise the dac due to me not getting the right usb cable type.


----------



## dmance

The benefits are worth the risks...and they are minor. I had only an issue with 3m audiophile cable.
Go for it. Buy a short 6" Belkin to bridge the PC/MAC to the intona...then the cable from the intona to the DAC is not as critical...just stay less than 10'. As far as equipment, I've has no experience with Macs...but 4 types of PC and 3 DACs


----------



## dmance

I'll just add that, in my view (understanding and experience) the USB transport problem is fixed by 1) getting the PC side performant enough to deal with USB audio (inherently error prone), and then 2) using an Isolator to rid the power line on the USB cable from PC noise. It's the 1-2m of distance that the data and power lines travel together and interfere that cause data loss. Any claims from DACs about asynchronous just refer to DAC clocking the data stream...and yes there is error checking and retransmission but 'still' errors occur. You can spend a fortune (literally) on a fully shielded USB cable as thick as a hose...or buy an Isolator as good as the intona.


----------



## Middy

I just use a cell phone but on CA a guy is experimenting with cable lifts ..
IE breaking the connections after hand shake...5v if your dac will allow and the Ground GND....I have ordered some male female connectors 10 each to try and some cheap single dip switches..
Only ground for me but I run my power 5V of a battery...
I'll pass on any positive effects if any...


----------



## dmance

Thanks Middy,  anything you can do to reduce the cost of a solution is much appreciated.  The Intona is overkill.


----------



## tkcha

hi I'm new here but audiophile for long time I have 3 systems in my home desktop system with Audioengine A5+ with 8inch sub,using fiio X5 gene2 dap as dac and Woo audio WA6 SE headphone amp with hifiman mod HE6,HEK,AKG kS551 headphones with calyx M dap as headphone system. main speaker 2 chnnel system is ps audio perfectwave mark2 using usb input from laptop as dac/pre with parasound JC1 mono amp driving vintage AR audio hone loded moniters and diy fullrange speaker using morel twiter,focal 4 inch mid,2 8 inch woofer as driver, 12'',14",50"  HMDF cabinet dimention.   my whole system was pretty good before intona now sound a lot better than before specially background noise from pc is gone more analoge like sound I get from digital specially hi rez,dsd file.    now while ago ordered HOLO  kitsune edition spring DAC 3 wait for delivery  with intona I'm exciting now.   If anybody using pc as souce it must have item period.   highly recomanded


----------



## dmance

For all DAC makers out there, what is needed is a 'USB TRANSPORT ERROR ANALYSIS' mode:
  
 1)  Support a button on the DAC's USB driver control panel to enter into this mode.(ASIO dashboard)
 2)  This sends control data across USB to the DAC to enter into this mode.  This is like a debugging mode.
 3)  Music playback is stopped, and instead, the driver sends a programmed stream of pseudo-random USB audio samples
 4)  The DAC knows the pattern(s) being sent and can determine if there are any errors.  Pattern repeats endlessly...at all bitrates used for audio
 5)  Errors caused by the cable mostly ... other issues such as PC performance is not property assessed since this is a test loop
 6) Test repeats for several minutes and the DAC displays % error + # of re-transmits if it supports error correction.
  
 Users can now happily swap cables, swap isolators, adapters, change power, move furniture around, etc.... until we see 0% errors in the DAC display. 
  
 In this year 2016 we still don't have an understanding of how to get accurate bits of our beloved music transferred from our hard drives to a our USB DACs.  We all hear changes/improvements when we make USB changes.  We are not deaf, nor stupid...but our changes are all subjective, we need a tool like this.
  
 I hope this helps motivate our friends in the business. 
  
 Dan


----------



## elviscaprice

The problem is not the data itself or corruption.  It's all about power and how it's variants can leak into the DAC to cause SQ issues at the analog conversion stage.  This is what the Intona, as a galvanic isolator, provides in cutting off any power leakage or ground loops.


----------



## dmance

Elvis, I would believe this ...if it were not for DAC makers insisting that they have full Galvanic isolation from the USB on their side of the cable. And that using corning optical USB, to the contrary, degrades the music.
It's insane.


----------



## elviscaprice

They often don't have good galvanic isolation in their DAC's.  I think it's better to isolate with the Intona as long as you don't introduce ground loops further downstream to the DAC, including the DAC. 
 My ideal DAC with Intona would have the following features:
  
 1.  (a)Plays all formats or (b)if your into upsampling to DSD with HQP then a DSD only DAC
 2.  Has USB 2.0 input
 3.  Does not require 5V Vbus input for power or playback.  Meaning most if not all, galvanically claimed DAC's would be excluded. 
 4.  Can be powered with a fully galvanic isolated power supply such as the LPS-1.
 5.   Is an asynchronous USB DAC, most are now a days.
  
 additionally it would be nice to have, but each to their own system needs:
 1.  DAC as a preamp - digital volume control
 2.  Headphone amp built in.


----------



## dmance

Bimmer100, thanks for chiming in. Ultimately though, packet noise results in errors at the receiver...dropped packets? leading to misrepresentation of the audio data, no? The kinds of distortion being heard is very subtle: staging, details, more low end. Not pin prick pops and chirps...but continuous...through the whole piece of music. These are timing related,no? Like jitter. dropped samples are being interpolated, is missed all the way through. Errors are occurring all the time.


----------



## dmance

Elvis, I have an exaSound e22 with most of the stuff you mention. Isolation, asynchronous+error retransmit. George K. of exaSound is a smart guy, yet mysteriously...the intona makes a huge difference (I say it makes the audio perfect)...where the engineering says it should not matter.
Re your 5)
USB Audio is isochronous and DAC claims of being asynchronous refer to the clocking of the data being done by the DAC high precision clock. The exaSound claims it's driver uniquely supports error detection and retransmission(if there is time, I guess). Yet, even then incredulously, the intona makes a difference. Audible and plain, at all bitrates.


----------



## elviscaprice

dmance said:


> Elvis, I have an exaSound e22 with most of the stuff you mention. Isolation, asynchronous+error retransmit. George K. of exaSound is a smart guy, yet mysteriously...the intona makes a huge difference (I say it makes the audio perfect)...where the engineering says it should not matter.
> Re your 5)
> USB Audio is isochronous and DAC claims of being asynchronous refer to the clocking of the data being done by the DAC high precision clock. The exaSound claims it's driver uniquely supports error detection and retransmission(if there is time, I guess). Yet, even then incredulously, the intona makes a difference. Audible and plain, at all bitrates.


 
  
 If the Intona makes a difference, then you have your answer about the e22's galvanic isolation or lack there of, or your bypassing the e22's galvanic isolation with a ground loop (which won't be the case if the Intona does help dramatically).  Unfortunately that means also you must feed the e22 a 5V vbus.   For further possible SQ improvement try feeding the e22 a clean 5V, the Intona does not output a very good 5V vbus.  The closer to the e22 you inject the clean 5V, the better.  After making handshake, cut the ground on the USB cable, remove or cut the shield on the USB cable.
 Unfortunately this is not an easy cheap fix.
 Thus my qualification for DAC's to not include a needed 5V vbus input.
  
 But if it works and sounds good to you, your set.


----------



## Middy

I am looking at IFI new widgets. The red may be useful. Not sure of the Black as I already have Ip2..

http://ifi-audio.com/home/products/accessory/


----------



## Superdad

dmance said:


> Elvis, I have an exaSound e22 with most of the stuff you mention. Isolation, asynchronous+error retransmit. George K. of exaSound is a smart guy, yet mysteriously...the intona makes a huge difference (I say it makes the audio perfect)...where the engineering says it should not matter.
> Re your 5)
> USB Audio is isochronous and DAC claims of being asynchronous refer to the clocking of the data being done by the DAC high precision clock. The exaSound claims it's driver uniquely supports error detection and retransmission(if there is time, I guess). Yet, even then incredulously, the intona makes a difference. Audible and plain, at all bitrates.


 

 DACs that use digital isolators--such as the exaSound--always have them AFTER their USB input PHY chip and processor.  The input itself is not galvanically isolated. Devices such as the Intona offer that.  And various hub-based USB "regenerators" (yes, my firm was about the first to do it--will that get this post deleted?) make a sonic difference because improved signal integrity and impedance match allow the DAC's USB input circuitry to generate less of its own ground-plane and packet-data noise--much of which can sail right through the DAC's own "galvanic isolators."  No voodoo, it is measurable at the DAC chip's clock pin.


----------



## musickid

HELLO TO ALL,
  
 and friends from computer audiophile. i'm looking for a budget solution to tidy up my system with respect to current leakage and usb signal integrity. after reading page after page i came to the conclusion that the intona standard would solve all electrical leakage and reinforce the usb signal. the intona site clearly states that the product reclocks then reproduces the original data by 100 percent. if this is the case why are some members here and in computer audiophile saying it doesn't fulfill this purpose or does it badly?? anyway would the intona standard offer me a one box does it all solution for someone on a budget? many thanks to all.   (earmax pro 2,  modimultibit,   dt880 600 ohm)


----------



## Middy

You have had me wracking my brain...
I love the Intona but it's quite dear. John's regen does have a great rep and can shine with good power.
I have no idea how the modi multi would be with either..IFI have just dropped a couple of cheap decrapifiers..
Nothing I had has made a huge improvement you would think.... The general advice is be patient and save... You could drop 2K on improving gadgets power upgrades.... 
It's hard to say but try the new cheap IFI if you hear an improvement pay the extra for the cheaper Intona. But the rfi blocking coper tape did improve the sound that bit more.....
The things that a DAC design is lacking for what ever reason can only be improved to its potential.. The same for the rest of the chain.
No magic cheap fixes.... 

Go cheap and see...So I can't be blamed for buyers remorse 

I know nothing btw just my own experiences....


----------



## elviscaprice

musickid said:


> HELLO TO ALL,
> 
> and friends from computer audiophile. i'm looking for a budget solution to tidy up my system with respect to current leakage and usb signal integrity. after reading page after page i came to the conclusion that the intona standard would solve all electrical leakage and reinforce the usb signal. the intona site clearly states that the product reclocks then reproduces the original data by 100 percent. if this is the case *why are some members here and in computer audiophile saying it doesn't fulfill this purpose or does it badly?? *anyway would the intona standard offer me a one box does it all solution for someone on a budget? many thanks to all.   (earmax pro 2,  modimultibit,   dt880 600 ohm)


 
  
 Who is saying that?  I've never seen it here or on CA.
 Now there is a large contingent of audiophiles moving to networking and pointing a finger at USB as being flawed in general.   But they are wrong, your just moving the problems to a different area of the chain, in my opinion with further limited format capabilities.
 The Intona is not a cure all.  But it does go a long way of providing good galvanic isolation, better than most if not all DAC's implementations. 
 There is no one box cure.
 Here are some other additional USB streaming problems outside the ones cured by the Intona.
 1.  The 5V vbus is detrimental to sound quality when operating in conjunction with the USB data streams.  Eliminating the 5V vbus helps immensely.
 2.  The Intona outputs a dirty 5V vbus, so either don't use it or replace it.
 3.  Best to input the intona a clean source of power, but in it's given form it only accepts the 5V thru the vbus input.  So either inject a clean external 5V thru DIY or inject a clean 5V thru your USB card and on to the Intona connected downstream.


----------



## musickid

With regards to the intona standard it states that it does work at all speeds low , medium and high with regards to usb data transfer. would this then benefit someone who uses tidal hifi//i'm assuming it must if it works at all speeds and that high speed usb data transfer is mainly for 24/192 files and similar. still learning!! For the given quality below what speed would usb data transfer utilise here?

Flac 1411 kbps - Lossless : TIDAL HIFI(16/44.1 khz)


----------



## dmance

I play DSD256 through the Intona...no problems. It works...just keep your link from intona to the DAC not more than 2m (6')


----------



## George Hincapie

Hello there.
  
 I've joined the forums specifically to ask a question in this thread, so be gentle on me! Oh, and hello everyone!
  
 I have read through the thread and looking at the manufacturers page, I see there are two versions with a significant difference in price. Is the performance of the standard version satisfactory and is the performance of the industrial version worth paying for?
  
 I know the general trend in HIFI is to buy the best you can afford, I just want to make sure that I don't waste money unnecessarily...
  
 TIA
  
 P.S. My chain will be MS Surface Pro > Intona > Metrum Musette DAC > NVA P90SA Pre Amp > NVA A40 Mono Blocks > NVA Cube 2 Speakers
  
 P.P.S. Which USB cables are recommended? I've just used whatever was laying around - standard and cheap.


----------



## elviscaprice

george hincapie said:


> Hello there.
> 
> I've joined the forums specifically to ask a question in this thread, so be gentle on me! Oh, and hello everyone!
> 
> ...


 

 ​To be honest, I don't know.  The Intona was developed for use on medical instruments.  So the Industrial was developed for handling large spikes in power along with some better components.  Some have made claim, after hearing both, that the industrial was better.  But I think they both do the job just fine, which is to provide galvanic isolation.
 As far as USB cables are concerned, no need for expensive cables if your eliminating power corruption.  But I would still eliminate the 5V vbus in the chord and break any ground shielding, make the ground wire available to be broken also and test connected or not after handshake.  Thus well made cheap cables fit the bill. 
 Also keep in mind, that a short run is preferable on the USB bus to Intona connection.  I prefer an adapter for this leg.  I also prefer using a Regen in conjunction following the Intona, that does help further.


----------



## motberg

george hincapie said:


> Hello there.
> 
> I've joined the forums specifically to ask a question in this thread, so be gentle on me! Oh, and hello everyone!
> 
> ...


 

 Hi George and welcome!
  
 I have the Industrial Intona  and in the past also had the standard version, both work well. I have seen some posts from other users with a definite preference for the Industrial version and there seems to be some technical reasons it may be more suitable for audio, but I personally do not remember much of a difference in sound quality (if any). To me, just the the better connectors in the Industrial version are worth the extra cost however. The Intona is pretty light weight and having the USB cables well clamped in place is a nice feature.
  
 I have/had many models of the popular USB cables, up to around the 400 USD price range. I have found the best value is the Pangea Audio AG USB cable, which is 24 ga solid silver, and my second choice for an economy model would be the Supra USB cable. Generally it seems the idea is to keep the USB cables as short as possible. If you are using something like a used printer cable currently, I suggest to first upgrade the cable. Even though this idea may not be the most popular point of view concerning computer audio, you can at least make sure you have a good connection between your source and DAC for a relatively modest investment:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-cable-solid-silver/dp/B005AUH8SM


----------



## dmance

george hincapie said:


> Hello there.
> 
> I've joined the forums specifically to ask a question in this thread, so be gentle on me! Oh, and hello everyone!
> 
> ...


 

 ​George, with my standard 1kV Intona I have found I can go back to my cheap cables too.  I am very pleased ... no pressure to go to the 2.5kV version (at least for me).   As per other suggestions ... go super short on cables.. as short as your can.  There are lots of 6" to 18" cable choices on Amazon.   Now, I don't have absolute conviction on this short cable issue .. but its psychological for me since there is less time/length for noise to creep in.


----------



## Superdad

george hincapie said:


> Hello there.
> 
> I've joined the forums specifically to ask a question in this thread, so be gentle on me! Oh, and hello everyone!


 
  
 George Hincapie?  THE George Hincapie--the absolutely mega-famous, highly decorated professional road cyclist?!  If so, then I am hugely honored and must tell you what a enormous fan I am.  I have seen you race, both on TV and in person, at least 30 times.  And your slightly more famous (cough) former team members owe you a great debt.
  
 But if you are not THAT George Hincapie, then welcome to Head-Fi anyway...


----------



## musickid

HELLO TO ALL,
  
 Is there an ideal length of usb cable to use with the computer to intona to dac? i have a 1.5m qed entry level cable for imac-intona (hoping that's not too long). i was thinking to buy a very short usb cable say 30cm or so from intona to dac? does that sound rightish


----------



## Middy

In this game smaller is better but don't spend a fortune or get into the cable war discussion...


----------



## smial1966

I know that Intona tweakers have experienced sonic improvement by lining their units with thin copper sheeting and mu-metal foil. So I wondered whether it'd be worthwhile trying a Stillpoints ERS Fabric sheet to line the inside plastic casing? The ERS fabric supposedly absorbs and diffuses EMI/RFI frequencies, is easy to handle/manipulate and costs around £20 per 8" X 11" sheet. Apparently "The core of the ERS Fabric is a blend of carbon fibers coated with proprietary metals that make it virtually impenetrable to RFI."  
  
 Any thoughts as to the ERS fabrics efficacy?


----------



## motberg

musickid said:


> HELLO TO ALL,
> 
> Is there an ideal length of usb cable to use with the computer to intona to dac? i have a 1.5m qed entry level cable for imac-intona (hoping that's not too long). i was thinking to buy a very short usb cable say 30cm or so from intona to dac? does that sound rightish


 

 That sounds fine to me - I am using 1.8M between the computer and Intona...
 My guess is you may get some future improvement by replacing the power used by the Intona, (which in some cases, subsequently gets used by your DAC).
 Something like this would probably be a bigger upgrade than going crazy on expensive USB cables..
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-Hi-Fi-Linear-Power-Supply-/181467993450?hash=item2a4055d56a:g:LzQAAOxyVVJR~9Nv


----------



## musickid

I might be going full circle here but what is the general opinion about forgetting the intona altogether and investing that money into a mutec 1.2? i read Keith Bevan's review on it and was very impressed?


----------



## rigo

motberg said:


> That sounds fine to me - I am using 1.8M between the computer and Intona...
> My guess is you may get some future improvement by replacing the power used by the Intona, (which in some cases, subsequently gets used by your DAC).
> Something like this would probably be a bigger upgrade than going crazy on expensive USB cables..
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-Hi-Fi-Linear-Power-Supply-/181467993450?hash=item2a4055d56a:g:LzQAAOxyVVJR~9Nv




What is the order of the connections adding a something like the TeraDak to the Intona?


----------



## motberg

rigo said:


> What is the order of the connections adding a something like the TeraDak to the Intona?


 

 The idea is to replace the 5V power in the USB line directly before entering the Intona....
 So you use this cable (packed with the TeraDak) which plugs into the USB-looking TeraDak output (5V) and then your USB cable from the computer gets plugged into one side of the yellow adapter end, which in turn gets plugged into the Intona.
 There are many other options to replace the 5V in the USB line, but I have used this TeraDak (before I got the Intona) - and in my system at the time it offered the same SQ improvement as the original iFi iUSBPower, (which was well reviewed) so seems to me a good overall value.


----------



## Middy

That's a nice 5V design I was going to copy. I will pick up the new Idefender as this has a 5V port and thier ground tech....
Not sure about the still points shielding.
We did copper as it is very cheap as the intona is special as it's plastic not like the newer JCAT version with the industrial in an extruded case...
we also used an aluminium project case.
But we did feel it had a positive effect in improving signal integrity and shielding. I can only say give it a try and let others know what you think...Good or bad...


----------



## elviscaprice

motberg said:


> The idea is to replace the 5V power in the USB line directly before entering the Intona....


 
  
  
 Not really.  More important is to exclude the 5V after the Intona and take care of any other contamination with grounding downstream, including the DAC.  If I had to feed the DAC 5V, not preferable, then it would be with a Regen and galvanic isolated power supply.
 But it doesn't hurt to feed the Intona with as clean of a 5V power supply as possible, which can easily be accomplished with feeding the USB audio card (followed with as short a USB chord or preferable an adapter to the Intona) a clean 5V supply again galvanically isolated such as a battery or LPS-1.


----------



## motberg

elviscaprice said:


> Not really.  More important is to exclude the 5V after the Intona and take care of any other contamination with grounding downstream, including the DAC.  If I had to feed the DAC 5V, not preferable, then it would be with a Regen and galvanic isolated power supply.
> But it doesn't hurt to feed the Intona with as clean of a 5V power supply as possible, which can easily be accomplished with feeding the USB audio card (followed with as short a USB chord or preferable an adapter to the Intona) a clean 5V supply again galvanically isolated such as a battery or LPS-1.


 
 Thanks for the additional comments, but here is my experience..
  
 In my current system both Intona's responded well to changing the input power supply.
 For the input side I tried (these all through a PPA2 card on a fanless, LPS, etc. computer.)
 1) PPA 18650x4 battery pack/regulator (around 3A@5V), Disconnected from charger when playing.
 2) a 5V separate rail from my TeraDak ATX PS,
 3) An iFi iUSBPower
 4) a special made higher-end TeraDak (not GI) followed by a iFi DC iPurifier.  
  
 #1 sounds great, but #4 sounds equal or better (more "solid") and I do not have the hassle of the batteries maintenance and possible safety issues.
  
 I also used an Intona powered direct from a pretty nice Dell XPS-13 laptop, but adding the iFi iUSBPower was a definite improvement.
 I have directly compared the iFi iUSBPower and the small TeraDak at 5V and I thought they were the same in actual SQ performance.
 The laptop itself running batteries or plugged-in did not seem to have much effect to the SQ.
  
 For Intona output side, I have used
  
 1) Direct to my DDC via PPA 20CM cable and similar.
 2) Regen with battery (Joyo 9V, disconnected from charger while playing),
 3) Regen with LPS,
 4) Recovery with battery PS, (Kingrex disconnected from charger when playing)
 5) Recovery with a special higher-end TeraDak followed by a iFi DC iPurifier (this does not have GI, but is powered by an audio-GD 220V regenerator)
  
 #5 sounds best to me,
 #1 sounds fine, especially if on a budget,
 #4 had mushy bass
 #2 sounds good but the Recovery suits my current system better than the Regen.
  
 My experience with the adapters has not been too good, they are always soundly beat by short cables from PPA, Cerious, Pangea, etc.
 I only tried adapters (I have 3 different adapters including the Uptone stock model, another from Taobao and even one marked Belkin.) between the Intona or Regen or Recovery to the DDC, but the adapters always sounded like they added electrical hash/distortion compared to good short USB cables. (I tried one of those special short white silver cables with the detachable power line, but no go with my DDC..)  
  
 Sure is a nice idea to cut the 5V, but not many DDC/DAC's allow this. Anyway, I personally would not consider to change a DAC I like for the sole reason to buy one that does not require USB 5V power.
  
 Sure would be nice to have isolated PS for everything, but batteries have drawbacks - and the 2 great options from Uptone are rather expensive.
  
 So again... to answer the question that was asked _"What is the order of the connections adding a something like the TeraDak to the Intona?" _
 (and taking into account the earlier poster who was looking for a budget solution and using a laptop...)
 I would say just as I described previously in post 174 would work fine based on my experience... and is plug-n-play.. no DIY.. no battery BS... and a nice "economy" option to try, especially if you use the standard Intona and the small Teradak.
  
 ...sure... if you want to spend extra $$ for 2 x isolated PS + Regen/Recovery + cable, etc.. that is great.. but I have heard the Intona alone powered by non-GI LPS and would be very happy with that if I did not want to spend the extra 700 USD I have in stuff currently between my Intona and the DDC.


----------



## elviscaprice

motberg said:


> Thanks for the additional comments, but here is my experience..
> 
> In my current system both Intona's responded well to changing the input power supply.
> For the input side I tried (these all through a PPA2 card on a fanless, LPS, etc. computer.)
> ...


 

 ​Very good, excellent detailed observations, Motberg.
 I think you are correct on the observation when needing the 5V for your DAC, with the added exceptions.
 I think it's key to eliminate the 5V vbus after the Intona (regardless of the power feed to the Intona).  You do not want to recontaminate the data stream with any non galvanic isolated power once cleaned by the Intona.   (The Intona DOES NOT output a clean 5V, regardless of 5V source.  There is a DC to AC conversion within the Intona.)  The 5V vbus does recontaminate the data stream and that is why USB cables make a difference when power is run live 5V vbus/contamination.  Eliminate the 5V and any ground loops then the cables don't make as much of a difference including adapters. 
 If I was to use your special cable with 5V input injected at the device, I would be using it at the DAC if your DAC requires 5V power or to be constantly flashed with 5V power.
 You could also feed the 5V vbus direct to the Intona if not using a USB audio card on a labtop, not as critical as the DAC.
 Another problem with the TeraDak PS is that it is not galvanically isolated.  So I would not recommend it's use following downstream from the Intona.
 You could also easily make your own USB cable to solder a lead to the usb 5V lead at the device.  It wouldn't be very hard to do.  Then I would recommend the LPS-1 by Uptone to ensure galvanic isolation.
  
 NOTE:  I use a modified Regen that is battery fed 3.2V, no 5V vbus output.  I do not think it is critical in my device chain, but does add a little to SQ.  Most important is the Intona and ensuring the galvanic isolation following it downstream to the DAC.
  
 As we can see there is far more complications with DAC's needing the 5V input and it's related expense to keep a clean galvanic isolated USB stream.


----------



## musickid

I'm using a schitt modi multibit dac. if used with the standard or industrial should i worry about the amount of current the intona outputs on the isolated side. this varies from 500mA TO 300mA I think i'm right here. basically will my dac operate as normal here. Also are there any advantages with the jcat it looks nicer? finally do you really need to use the special jcat usb cables here as they state.


----------



## motberg

musickid said:


> I'm using a schitt modi multibit dac. if used with the standard or industrial should i worry about the amount of current the intona outputs on the isolated side. this varies from 500mA TO 300mA I think i'm right here. basically will my dac operate as normal here.


 

 Hi,
  
 Maybe someone with more electrical knowledge will help, but I think the USB standard is to provide 0.5 amp 5V.
 It will depend of your source power supply coming off the computer, and that is one of the reasons I suggested sticking the TeraDak in the input. I understand some computer USB power outputs can be rather noisy and subject to power fluctuations.
 When the Intona was first released, I remember some folks having problems with insufficient power after the Intona due to the Intona uses some current and some DAC's need more than the normal USB 500mA, but I am pretty sure those issues have all been resolved and have not read any new such problems reported recently. It would be good however to buy a recent version of the Intona, immediately after the first release it seems to me the designers made some modifications to help audiophile applications.
 It is good to keep in mind the Intona designers seem fairly competent (also have experience in audio), and their intended market for the Intona requires strict conformance to standards, so as long a your Modi and computer outputs are compliant to the USB standard, you should be OK.
 .... my GUESS is that the TeraDak/Intona standard (as I describe above) will beat the Intona industrial alone using the USB power from a typical home desktop PC.
  
 Here are a few additional references that may be helpful (I assume you checked the FAQ section of the Intona web site):
  
 http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-accessories/acoustics-eq-room-tuning/intona-high-speed-usb-isolator-review-2.html
  
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/intona/1.html


----------



## musickid

many thanks for the reassurance motberg. i am still deciding between an intona and a mutec 1.2 bridge. i realise they fulfill different functions but they share much in common too. i want to figure out which will give me best SQ improvement as i can only afford one of them.   (earmax pro 2 otl tube amp , modi multibit) any ideas?


----------



## motberg

musickid said:


> many thanks for the reassurance motberg. i am still deciding between an intona and a mutec 1.2 bridge. i realise they fulfill different functions but they share much in common too. i want to figure out which will give me best SQ improvement as i can only afford one of them.   (earmax pro 2 otl tube amp , modi multibit) any ideas?


 

 Hi, I do not have direct experience with the mutec stuff, but I have had at least 6 different bridges the past few years and my guess would be in your situation (if you like the general tone from your current DAC) that a bridge would be the better investment. Note that the technology is changing very quickly, and I guess that soon there will be other devices that offer similar capabilities to the Intona, hopefully cheaper and more finely tuned to audio requirements (DC power input, better clocks, DC regulation, etc.)... so do not stress too much over things and try to spend more time enjoying your favorite music. You can make some pretty nice improvements also just tweaking software and your hardware settings, so it is not always necessary to spend a lot of money to upgrade your system...


----------



## musickid

ULTRA QUICK LOW JITTER REPLY!! THANKS.
  
 at the moment i see it this way. the intona industrial is not needed for home audio settings. it is designed for tolerances such as operating at 2g etc. secondly only the intona at this point in time offers complete galvanic isolation of the usb bus from the dac while it transmits usb data up to 480mbit/sec and that means no unwanted noise or interference from my imac to the dac's fragile analogue producing circuitry playing files of any resolution which the intona supports. thirdly the website clearly states the intona reproduces and reclocks the usb signal by 100%. daniel also told me this is done in an electrically precise or correct manner which other products don't, which only sounds good to me even if i don't understand the physics totally here.
  
 finally this must mean that if you introduce a device such as the regen after the intona this will clear up the usb signal again but it will introduce another electrical circuit in to the chain which means more noisy circuitry thus cancelling out the benefits that the intona introduced to start with. therefore two points come to mind;
  
 1) why isn't the usb integrity that the intona provides not appreciated on these forums and hardly ever mentioned and 2) bearing all of the above for my earmaxpro2 and modimultibit the intona standard must surely provide a complete one box solution for fortifying usb signal integrity and decoupling the dac from the computer as described above ie full galvanic isolation at all usb speeds for all music sampling rates? if i am wrong i would love to know where? currently listening to barry white you're the first , the last , my everything which i dedicate to the intona!!!!lol


----------



## elviscaprice

musickid said:
			
		

> finally this must mean that if you introduce a device such as the regen after the intona this will clear up the usb signal again but it will introduce another electrical circuit in to the chain which means more noisy circuitry thus cancelling out the benefits that the intona introduced to start with. therefore two points come to mind;
> 
> 1) why isn't the usb integrity that the intona provides not appreciated on these forums and hardly ever mentioned and 2) bearing all of the above for my earmaxpro2 and modimultibit the intona standard must surely provide a complete one box solution for fortifying usb signal integrity and decoupling the dac from the computer as described above ie full galvanic isolation at all usb speeds for all music sampling rates? if i am wrong i would love to know where? currently listening to barry white you're the first , the last , my everything which i dedicate to the intona!!!!lol


 
  
 It's all about impedance with the Regen following the Intona, which I believe the Intona does not do a good job of.   If you supply a galvanically isolated power supply to the Regen, in theory and my own practice, it does not contaminate the DAC downstream.  BUT, I do wonder if a live 5V vbus to the Regen can create contamination at the Regen via
 1.  The Regen itself
 2.  Ground loop into the USB gnd.
 Not sure, but I do notice that eliminating the 5V vbus between the Intona and Regen to be better for SQ. 
  
 To answer your question:
 1.  It is appreciated, the Intona.  But the latest gizmo is the mRendu and it's Ethernet or DLNA.  Some folks have given up on a direct connection via USB from media player to DAC.
 2.  The Intona sure helps but I wouldn't say it's the total solution.


----------



## dmance

Coolgear now has a 480mbits/sec USB Isolator based on a chip from Australian firm Silanna. Plus ability to insert the +5V. Has anyone tried this? Much less $ and size than Intona.


----------



## Middy

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01E68ME7S/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1477148811&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=coolgear&dpPl=1&dpID=41mc%2BSC4cML&ref=plSrch


----------



## Middy

Built in power adapter is a nice touch. ..
At the moment I have a spliced cable to feed battery power pre intona... The Idefender didn't come today but I will use that to feed battery 5v.
Regen wise Uptone regen is mentioned to cut high frequency signals that bypass the Intonas isolation...

I'd love to try one post intona but I only have the IFI IPURIFIER2 for now....

Better designed audio equipment is an expensive game...But so can chasing the short fall....


----------



## rigo

middy said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01E68ME7S/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1477148811&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=coolgear&dpPl=1&dpID=41mc%2BSC4cML&ref=plSrch




So this is comparable to the Intona?


----------



## Middy

No idea I just looked when it was posted and posted the link when I found it... Intona do post thier info about the tech abilities a search my find thiers


----------



## motberg

middy said:


> No idea I just looked when it was posted and posted the link when I found it... Intona do post thier info about the tech abilities a search my find thiers


 

 There is this Alldaq also, one of the guys from this company started a thread at CA asking for input before the design was finalized (iirc)
 http://www.alldaq.com/en/adq-iso
  
 My wild guess is someone shortly will be offering an audiophile model that will combine Intona like capabilities with Regen/Recovery capabilities.
 I would think both Uptone and W4S should be able to arrange this fairly easily given the experience gained the past 2 years


----------



## Middy

Or like Jcat or PS audio just take a mature product tinker and license it as thier own for audio.AllDaq also has a built in 5v line adapter but is a specialist industrial electronics test supplier. A lot of others like Mutec are professional audio recording suppliers.... I supposee it's a case of who can take he bull by the horns in what is a niche market for an all in one. I read part time audiophile...RMAF set ups before speakers hit $150000.
We want toys to make our current set ups sound better for a few hundred...
Schitt do the cheapest R2R Dacs But they can be 10K +..But hard to know if either are good...Same with the intona Regen RUR ect unless you have hands on...I now have the Mytek Brooklyn...
The toys I have and LPS I could have a Raggy for the price...But no Head Amp.
You can only get what you can afford.. or justify.... Makes this hobby hard making choices especially waiting to save...if you are that lucky you can save...Or throw money at anything you fancy...
One benefit though is if you burn cash on a better Dac or combo...These toys are transport boosters...So they still work...and improve....But only with Diminishing returns....in improvement and cash spent.....

Sorry my Sunday soap box in bed done


----------



## musickid

the new cheaper usb islator any one tried it? would it work with a regen or recovery and if so would that combination be better than a standalone intona (which does reclock?) finally is 300mA enough to power a modimultibit which has its own power supply? i guess if the modi multibit is mains powered it doesn't matter about the current supply on the isolated side.
  
 just to add this..._."Adding isolation limits bandwidth to “Full Speed” or 12 Mbps. While this is still technically USB 2.0, the host controller will not pass data at “High Speed” or 480 Mbps. __Therefore, if you require 480 Mbps High Speed_ you should not use isolation" can someone make sense of this?


----------



## Superdad

dmance said:


> Coolgear now has a 480mbits/sec USB Isolator based on a chip from Australian firm Silanna. Plus ability to insert the +5V. Has anyone tried this? Much less $ and size than Intona.


 

 We have had both the Silanna chip and the CoolGear device since the days they started shipping.  The Silanna chip, while indeed being the world's first high-speed USB isolator chip (not to be confused with digital isolators that are used on the I2S lines in DACs after the USB input PHY and processor) does work, but has issues of jitter, data reversal time, and others which impact its use for async-USB.  These issues are solvable, but it takes a while.
  
 I can not say anything more without getting in trouble with Head-Fi management.   
  
 I should be permitted to point out that both the upstream and downstream sides of the CoolGear are bus-powered regardless of if the 5V port is used.  That port is only to allow separate injection of 5VBUS power for devices that need more than about 350mA.


----------



## Middy

I won't get into trouble.. I think.... Uptone are the new Kings of clean power......Clean power is a word I would have laughed at a few months ago... Shiny wires ..dirty electricity....Haha....
Then experience shows you how wrong you can be...... Clean signals...clean power....


----------



## musickid

then i came across this can anyone demysitfy this for me
  
_It filters both data and power. There is no galvanic isolation as this doesn't exist for high speed USB. It exists only for old non-asynchronous DACs with a 12Mbit/s USB bit rate, unable to do 192KHz/24._  
_for total dac d1 usb cable._


----------



## motberg

musickid said:


> then i came across this can anyone demysitfy this for me
> 
> _It filters both data and power. There is no galvanic isolation as this doesn't exist for high speed USB. It exists only for old non-asynchronous DACs with a 12Mbit/s USB bit rate, unable to do 192KHz/24._
> _for total dac d1 usb cable._


 

 This is old info and not updated. Commercially available GI for high speed USB is fairly new (maybe the past 18 months?), Some makers devices have just been out a few months so not yet checked much in the real world for audio use.
 The 192KHz/24 is in reference to high resolution audio files. High resolution audio results in larger file sizes and require more bandwidth than standard resolution files (like from a CD, which are 44.1KHz and 16 bit).
 You will see a similar (no high resolution files) limitation on some of the very cheap USB isolation devices.


----------



## musickid

Many thanks motberg. what do you think of the totaldac 1. it offers protection from the 5v power line in addition to data filtering and is specifically made for usb audio. i am very tempted. a zero cost way of protecting my gear from ground loops would be to plug all my stuff into the same tacima mains conditioner? the d1 sells for 360 euros.


----------



## Yviena

Im really considering buying a Intona or a ALLDAQ but wouldn't using a usb decrapifier after the isolator remove the benefits of ground isolation as these devices use a wallwart.


----------



## elviscaprice

yviena said:


> Im really considering buying a Intona or a ALLDAQ but wouldn't using a usb decrapifier after the isolator remove the benefits of ground isolation as these devices use a wallwart.


 
  
 Any device added (including DAC) downstream of your galvanic isolation, such as Intona, would have to be galvanically isolated on the power.  There are two choices to accomplish this, battery or LPS-1.   Also 5V vbus needs to be controlled or eliminated altogether.


----------



## Yviena

elviscaprice said:


> Any device added (including DAC) downstream of your galvanic isolation, such as Intona, would have to be galvanically isolated on the power.  There are two choices to accomplish this, battery or LPS-1.   Also 5V vbus needs to be controlled or eliminated altogether.


 
 Hmm i already have a very good lps for my dac so i think that is okay, if i get the intona then my choice to keep the galvanic seperation would probably be either the ifi micro iusb 3.0, as it says it too clean/breaks the ground or the lightspeed revive as it's run from battery power.
  
 Or i could just buy the ifi micro as it says it does the same thing as the intona and regens the usb.
 Maybe it doesn't even matter in my setup if  the usb decrapifier uses wallwart/lps in my setup as the computer and audio are on completely different ac circuits.
  
 another thing is i don't actually know if i have ground loops or ground problems in the first place as i donæt have any signs or or audible ground noise.


----------



## dmance

For my situation (exaSound e22, Windows10 laptop or Server 2012 box) i think i have the problem of USB transport 100% solved.   And its all about the cleanliness of the USB +5V line and the DAC PSU..  I wanted to reach transparency of playback using USB in comparison to a top-line CD transport.  When the bits are numerically identical on the CD and the data file, I was desperate to understand why I could detect quite audible differences.   Notably:  more clarify, delineation of instruments, better transients, more stage depth and more low end from the CD transport vs the USB transport.   I thought (silly me) that this was due to alterations of the actual data bits.  After 2 years of wasting time and money on USB cables and improvements to my PC hardware .... i have these tidbits of wisdom for anyone in a similar state:
  
 1) Asynchronous DACs (like the e22, XMOS based) do an incredible job of getting the bits from the PC to the DAC with full integrity.  e22 has its own ASIO driver but this is true for XMOS based USB interface DACs - tested with the a GoldNote D7.  The async DAC clock times the receipt of bits from the PC and supports error-correction and/or re-transmission (not sure).  If your PC  is not performant enough or your USB cable is substandard (like classed as USB 1.0), then you will notice degradation as quite audible and obvious blips, squeeks, gaps.   If you dont hear these every 15 seconds, then dont worry, all is good here....the bits are getting from your PC to your DAC.
  
 2)  Some DAC companies will swear up and down that their DACs have internal power supply filtering and conditioning...and upgraded PSUs are not required.  Not so if you have ears to hear the difference that can be made.  Night and day....at least for my e22,... i suppose some higher end DAC's already have better power supplies.. I suggest you replace your factory power brick with a low noise, highly regulated external PSU.  I chose Teddy Pardo for my e22 ... there are other choices .... read the forums.  To this I would also suggest avoiding AC power conditioning with Universal Power Supplies, Filters, etc..  In my experience it just closed in the sound of the DAC.  Listen to your ears.
  
 3) Some DAC companies will swear up and down that their DACs have immunity to the PC's noisy +5V on the USB bus.   For me to accept that this is a blatant falsehood was hard.  The engineer in me was incredulous that nominal (say mV) power noise on the bus would cause degradation at the output of the DAC.  I mean, these are highly acclaimed, well engineered DACs!   Alas, the difference for me was night and day.  I used a battery powered USB power product from Musical Paradise (in Canada).  This fully replaces the PC supplied USB power with 100% 5V from LDO regulated Panasonic batteries.  The noise on the +5V is now under 10uV.... and resulted in total clarity of my music that i was seeking: full transparency from my PC USB transport when compared to a $5000 dedicated CD transport.  So there is no magic in plastic disks.  You CAN get the same fidelity from the copied bits.  (as expected!)
  
 4)  Expensive audiophile grade USB cables do nothing but change the nature of the problem: they filter or condition the +5V power lines that changes the tonal differences of the DAC.   Slightly different noise profiles on the +5V from different cables behave differently in how the +5V noise seeps into the internals of the DAC.  Some cables are more warm, some are more open.. it is claimed.  This has NOTHING to do with affecting the bits being transmitted.  All good USB cables will allow transmission of data with 100% fidelity.  Different cables sound different because their physical characteristics (more shielding, more gauge, different metallurgy) alter the power lines differently.  I will say that clean +5V USB paths have eliminated my need for ANY high end USB cables.
  
 5) Full USB isolation (as provided with Intona and others) works ... but I claim it is essentially all due to the cleaning of the +5V power to reduce noise (Intona claims to under 60uV).  The galvanic isolation of the USB may be useful if you think that your DAC will be struck by lightening, however I believe that a modern asynchronous DAC is immune to the need for data isolation.  In my own subjective tests I found that adding an Intona to my clean +5V USB path produced no audible changes (either way).  So cleaning the +5V USB power either is the entirety of the solution or a good 95%.
  
  
 This is my experience and my recommendations to all.  I have now moved beyond tweaking my digital source input.  I am done. ... now I'm onto the other aspects of my system.
  
 Dan


----------



## musickid

is the power supply that came with my modi multibit dac ok as a power supply (that doesn't seem to be galvanically isolated downstream) to use with the intona . this was described before as important, i.e. the need to make sure the dac's power supply is also isolated when using the intona. anyway from the schitt website the modi multibit psu: this is what i have to use as recommended by schitt.
 
"Included 16VAC wall-wart with 100% linear power supply" lps is internal


----------



## Patu

Got mine today. I found an industrial version used so I finally decided to give this a try. I recently experimented with two different USB-cables and to my surprise, could hear a clear difference between the two. This got me worried that what else there might be wrong when using USB for audio. I did some research, read some reviews and forums and found Intona. For some reason this sounds like the best option out of the many I've come across on internet. I use a regular desktop PC running Win10 Pro and foobar2000 with WASAPI output as my source. I've had AudioQuest JitterBug for some time now and can't really tell a difference there. If there is some, it's extremely small in favor of using it. 
  
 As my Intona is used, there's no need for burn-in. I plugged it in and it works straight out of the box with my TeddyPardo U2S XMOS based USB bridge. Rest of the equipment chain you can find in my profile. 
  
 First impressions (after only 30 minutes of listening) about the sound quality is clarity. Everything sounds clearer and better defined. I guess it cleans some noise and makes the background blacker which gives this audible difference. It's easier to separate different instruments from the sound. My ATC's are very revealing so it's quite easy to tell the differences when you do changes in the equipment chain. I left the JitterBug on between the PC and Intona but will later experiment without it. Anyway, Intona solves the final part of isolation between PC and my hifi-setup. There's only the USB-connection which is now galvanically isolated. I even bought a 5m power cord for TV to plug it in different power outlet than my hifi since the TV is connected to my PC with HDMI.


----------



## peteg

Have one for sale. *SOLD*


----------



## dmance

Patu,
Congrats on discovering the benefits of intona. I'd wager that its all due to the +5v noise filtering of the Intona to bring the noise level down. The bits being delivered to your DAC's USB interface are not altered by cable or de-jitter or isolation. The audible changes you hear are how the noise on +5V affects either the PHY processing or encroachment into the innards right into the DAC chip.
FYI, I got 100% of the benefits you describe by just inserting a clean (battery powered) +5V to the USB going to the DAC. 'Isolation', per-se, is not in play.


----------



## Patu

dmance said:


> Patu,
> Congrats on discovering the benefits of intona. I'd wager that its all due to the +5v noise filtering of the Intona to bring the noise level down. The bits being delivered to your DAC's USB interface are not altered by cable or de-jitter or isolation. The audible changes you hear are how the noise on +5V affects either the PHY processing or encroachment into the innards right into the DAC chip.
> FYI, I got 100% of the benefits you describe by just inserting a clean (battery powered) +5V to the USB going to the DAC. 'Isolation', per-se, is not in play.


 
  
 Thanks dmance. That's how I see it also but you just describe it better. 
  
 Btw, how do you insert +5v for the USB going to the DAC?


----------



## Middy

I am trying a new path when it comes.. The IFI Idefender and a separate battery powering the 5V rail.
I have IFI IPURIFIER 2 into my standard intona and a hybrid home made cable 5v +GND To a data+- and GND.
I differ as I am not using a PC laptop. Just my phone..
CA guys recommend a GND lift once the hand shake is done. I got some 1 piece dip switches.. but I will wait to try that after the ifi idefender comes...


----------



## motberg

dmance said:


> Patu,
> Congrats on discovering the benefits of intona. I'd wager that its all due to the +5v noise filtering of the Intona to bring the noise level down. The bits being delivered to your DAC's USB interface are not altered by cable or de-jitter or isolation. The audible changes you hear are how the noise on +5V affects either the PHY processing or encroachment into the innards right into the DAC chip.
> FYI, I got 100% of the benefits you describe by just inserting a clean (battery powered) +5V to the USB going to the DAC. 'Isolation', per-se, is not in play.


 

 I had batteries, isolated PS, etc. to my DAC,.. and the Intona still helped.
 Also my DAC and DDC are on power regenerator and the Intona still stays - even if a battery pack is driving the DDC...
 Now I am using a non-isolated LPS with Recovery after the Intona and that sounds better than a 7V Taobao regulated battery pack or the Kingrex U Power
 The Intona noise filtering is not actually that great compared to an isolated 3A 5V battery pack followed by an iFi DC iPurifier
 I am not an EE, is this packet noise (being discussed elsewhere) on the 5V USB line?
 Seems my bits definitely need all the help they can get on the way over to my DDC... and I have a pretty good source for those bits also (see my profile for the computer details)


----------



## Patu

You guys really take this to the next level. 
  
 I did some more listening yesterday and tried to unplug Intona also. There really is a clear difference this time. With JitterBug, it's so small that it's hard to tell if there's any difference at all. What's most positive about Intona is that with added clarity and separation, low level listening is more enjoyable now. 
  
 If you had to choose only one of these isolators/regens, which one would it be?


----------



## Patu

Now I started to experiment with different player software for Windows. Long time since I last tried JRiver against foobar2000 and to my surprise JRMC now sounds better, last time I preferred foobar. Probably has something to do with Intona in the chain now. JRMC sounds smoother and more analog with better resolution while foobar2000 sounds harsher and even little bit grainy now. Oh and I found this new player called Hysolid also which sounds superb. This is an endless journey...


----------



## dmance

patu said:


> Now I started to experiment with different player software for Windows. Long time since I last tried JRiver against foobar2000 and to my surprise JRMC now sounds better, last time I preferred foobar. Probably has something to do with Intona in the chain now. JRMC sounds smoother and more analog with better resolution while foobar2000 sounds harsher and even little bit grainy now. Oh and I found this new player called Hysolid also which sounds superb. This is an endless journey...



Okay. It's hard to say this...but all players deliver the same bits to the DAC with the same accuracy (100%, if you have the settings identical). Hard to believe, eh?
So why do we hear a difference? Because the software runs differently on the CPU and resultant spurious noise patterns jiggle the USB interface and change the noise on the +5V.
What the intona does is squash this noise to under 60uV.
Trust me: eliminate the noise entirely and all players sound the same.


----------



## Patu

dmance said:


> Okay. It's hard to say this...but all players deliver the same bits to the DAC with the same accuracy (100%, if you have the settings identical). Hard to believe, eh?
> So why do we hear a difference? Because the software runs differently on the CPU and resultant spurious noise patterns jiggle the USB interface and change the noise on the +5V.
> What the intona does is squash this noise to under 60uV.
> Trust me: eliminate the noise entirely and all players sound the same.


 
  
 I know dmance, I know. It's even harder to believe that I can hear differences between these players at all. At least equally hard is to believe that the differences would occur because of the <1% load which JRMC/foobar2000 cause to my six-core AMD CPU while playing music. 
  
 How do I eliminate the noise completely? How do you add battery power in the mix? Also, shouldn't W4S Recovery and Uptone Regen eliminate this noise completely since they are externally powered? Still many prefer Intona.


----------



## dmance

Patu,
I was chased out of DAC mfr trade show stand for proclaiming I heard the differences...when their test equipment indicated no difference. Obviously the quantum computer in our brain picks up sensitivities in timbre, timing, transients that high speed audio scopes do not.
Short term, a solution is adhoc or piecemeal from various. Use your ears(brain..and yes mix and match for best results.
Near term (I hope less than 18 months), we will be streaming via wifi/lan to an integrated or closely coupled DAC (Yes, i know, those solutions exist now) that fully isolates the analog conversion from the digital side.
For me, today, a battery-based USB power like Musical Paradise MP-U1 coupled with an Intona is the best we can do for direct PC-USB-DAC audio. Clean +5V USB power rails...and also isolate the data pins from carrying any noise just for good measure and peace of mind.☺️


----------



## musickid

HELLO TO ALL,
  
 The intona is always discussed  relating to dacs. how does it work with amp/dac combos? is it still effective or does it interfere with the amp's performance? i have a nice tube earmax but auditioned a senn amp/dac with h800s and i am considering saving for this killer solid state option to compliment my earmax. any advice would be great here.


----------



## Middy

Works fantastic with my Mytek Brooklyn... Others have used it on kit such as a Yaggy upwards...Low and high level separates


----------



## FredA

musickid said:


> HELLO TO ALL,
> 
> The intona is always discussed  relating to dacs. how does it work with amp/dac combos? is it still effective or does it interfere with the amp's performance? i have a nice tube earmax but auditioned a senn amp/dac with h800s and i am considering saving for this killer solid state option to compliment my earmax. any advice would be great here.




No reason why it would not work with a combo. A combo is dac and amp in the same chassis.


----------



## chauphuong

dmance said:


> For my situation (exaSound e22, Windows10 laptop or Server 2012 box) i think i have the problem of USB transport 100% solved.   And its all about the cleanliness of the USB +5V line and the DAC PSU..  I wanted to reach transparency of playback using USB in comparison to a top-line CD transport.  When the bits are numerically identical on the CD and the data file, I was desperate to understand why I could detect quite audible differences.   Notably:  more clarify, delineation of instruments, better transients, more stage depth and more low end from the CD transport vs the USB transport.   I thought (silly me) that this was due to alterations of the actual data bits.  After 2 years of wasting time and money on USB cables and improvements to my PC hardware .... i have these tidbits of wisdom for anyone in a similar state:
> 
> 1) Asynchronous DACs (like the e22, XMOS based) do an incredible job of getting the bits from the PC to the DAC with full integrity.  e22 has its own ASIO driver but this is true for XMOS based USB interface DACs - tested with the a GoldNote D7.  The async DAC clock times the receipt of bits from the PC and supports error-correction and/or re-transmission (not sure).  If your PC  is not performant enough or your USB cable is substandard (like classed as USB 1.0), then you will notice degradation as quite audible and obvious blips, squeeks, gaps.   If you dont hear these every 15 seconds, then dont worry, all is good here....the bits are getting from your PC to your DAC.
> 
> ...


 
 So the sole "usb decrapifier" you use (and recommend) is the stuff from Musical Paradise"? With its modest capacity of 3400mAh, how many hours of music streaming does it give to you?


----------



## dmance

The e22 is powered. I'm not sure what the draw is on the USB interface but I've gone 3 or 4 days of long listening sessions (after dinner to 2am) with no problem. So I'd say it's lasted 24+ hours. Somewhere there is a post I read that says most USB interfaces barely draw 100mA...so we should see 34 hours of typical use.


----------



## chauphuong

very often current DACs do not need 5v power from pc's usb port.So many people just cut off the 5v line in usb cable. Do you think what you recommend is needed?


----------



## dmance

My DAC driver did not see my DAC unless the +5v was powered.


----------



## Roseval

dmance said:


> The async DAC clock times the receipt of bits from the PC and supports error-correction and/or re-transmission (not sure).


 
 The first part is true, the second isn't
 When using UAC1 or UAC2 , it is Isochronous transfer.
 This means there is a quasi real-time stream and the amount of data is such that the DAC can maintain the playback.
 This transfer can be combined with 3 types of synchronization: synchronous, adaptive and asynchronous synchronization.
  Asynchronous synchronization is the one enabling the DAC to do then timing.
 But all the time it is a isochronous transfer.
 Due to its quasi real time character one can detect errors at the receiver but there is no time to ask for a correction.
 That is inherent to a (quasi) real-time stream.
 It is very much like SPDIF, the receiver can detect errors but as it is real time, there is now time to ask for a retry in case of errors.
  
 Bit more detail: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html


----------



## dmance

Roseval,
exaSound claims (in literature and in person) that their proprietary ASIO driver supports error correction. So, outside of the std USB spec, the driver can wrapper the data to remove errors. They make a pretty confident claim about being 100% bit perfect. So unless there is a drastic performance issue (late interrupt processing, starved buffers) or an arc welder EMI next to the cable...the music bits get through fully intact.


----------



## musickid

Im using a small system centred around an earmax pro tube amp. i'm also considering around spring to upgrade to something like a sennheiser amp/dac h800s. the earmax pro excels at jazz, vocals, instrumentals, classical etc. However for electronic, reggae, rnb, more bass heavy stuff i feel i need something else hence an upgrade. with regards to the intona is there a way to connect the isolated side of the intona to two dacs at once? i searched for a usb A to twin B but i don't think such things exist. is the only way then to manually switch the connection depending on which system i'm listening to. if two intona's is the only way would not having one on standby and the other active not cause power deficiencies. surely there must be a simple way here not involving paying for a second intona. thanks to all.


----------



## Roseval

dmance said:


> Roseval,
> exaSound claims (in literature and in person) that their proprietary ASIO driver supports error correction.


 
  
 Any link to this literature?


----------



## dmance

roseval said:


> Any link to this literature?



A one line online and print: "a unique true asynchronous USB interface with error correction". I asked them about this at a Toronto trade show ... They were not open about the details but assured me that it meant no dependency on the quality of the USB cable.
...it could be marketing...but their drivers are damn robust and the data seems to always get through. And the DAC sounds great once you clean up the +5V


----------



## schneller

Anyone using Intona with a Schiit Modi2 MB by chance?


----------



## musickid

I have a modi multibit and will be getting  an intona stnd very soon. By the way do you know of the best way to connect one dac to two amps without sacrificing any sound quality. thanks. also if you use two intonas from two usb ports to feed two dacs does the fact that one intona is in standby while the other is on cause any issues? i was thinking power drain from computer or negative effect on intona that is active ie on. thanks


----------



## Robert McAdam

> To check on the effect of each piece of gear, I then removed the Regen and LanRover (individually and together). To my great surprise I preferred the sound without either of these units. They both added an overly weighty and bloomy bass and an artificial "hi-fiish" quality to the music. Without them the sound is very revealing, neutral and balanced


 
 This is from a closed thread XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED! - Page 231
  
 I found the industrial Intona has similar effect and have now removed it from my setup. Computer-Benchmark DAC2-Amplifier.
  
 This after upgrading XXhighend software to latest Windows 10 version. I have not replaced it with anything else at this point. 
  
 People considering this device should borrow one and listen for an extended time if possible. It does give the impression at first its an improvement but underneath its also removing something from the sound.


----------



## dmance

Robert,
The audible changes you hear are 100% from analog noise making it through to the DAC along the USB power rail...the data for the audio is intact. 
So no matter what you add: Regen, intona, Landover, etc. if the DAC is poorly designed it allows the aforementioned noise into the USB interface and even into the innards of the DAC.
I had a revelation on the importance of keeping any noise ripples away from my DAC and had perfect fidelity (stunning clarity transparent to a high end CD transport via AES) when I inserted clean 5v power on the USB (less than 5uV noise) with a musical paradise MP-U1. 
YMMV ... But I sold all my USB thingys and expensive USB cables afterwards. Clean +5V on the USB made all the difference.
Hence...when you changed to Windows 10 .. the noise profile from your motherboard changed...and changed on the USB. This is the difference you were hearing.
Dan


----------



## Robert McAdam

Thanks Dan, I'm currently looking at a Holo Spring NOS DAC and Torq suggests using IS2 is better than USB, mind you that's using the Singxer SU-1 USB digital interface, more money and boxes. USB has been problematic. Benchmark say their DAC2 usb input doesn't need any boxes before it. But the Intona did improve some aspects of the sound.


----------



## dmance

I had an Intona. It's exclusive audio benefit is to regulate the +5v coming fro the PC...brings noise down to 60uV. Alas, even this miniscule ripple is audible. 
USB done right is starting to happen (finally)...but don't accept the mktg talk. Try it out.


----------



## Robert McAdam

I just checked out the MP-U1 USB Power Isolator 5V, the price is good, better than the Intona. I also thought the Intona galvanically isolates both the digital audio and power supply to the USB. Interesting as the Intona was developed solely for industrial purposes. Now even JCAT have adopted it to sell in a flash case to HiFi users.
  
 Is the MP-UI inserted the same as the Intona? Computer - MP-UI - DAC2 - Amplifier.
  
 Some guys on CA have been running separate power feeds to USB by splitting cable. I'm not keen to tweak things that much.


----------



## dmance

The MP-U1 uses high quality Panasonic batteries LDO regulated to get noise under 5uV. I have run everything on this: my DAC, Chromecast Audio, Dragonfly Red. Makes a huge difference...and seems to last forever on battery. No concern there.
Yes..PC-MPU1-DAC...the box splits out the power... leaves data lines as is. you just need a short USB bridge cable.


----------



## Yviena

dmance said:


> I had an Intona. It's exclusive audio benefit is to regulate the +5v coming fro the PC...brings noise down to 60uV. Alas, even this miniscule ripple is audible.
> USB done right is starting to happen (finally)...but don't accept the mktg talk. Try it out.


 
 Actually even with cut 5v usb cable, ground crap from the laptop/computer can ride through the ground wire into the dac digital/analog stages. Especially if you have ground loops coming from the usb cable.


----------



## musickid

how can you tell if you're dac is consuming the right power to work with the intona or mpu1. for eg mpu1 states your device doesn't use more than 2.1A. also what happens say if your dac is mains powered but has a usb input. where would the mpu1 fit in here. surely the dac doesn't need external power here if only for the handshake. for eg if i used the oppo ha1 with the intona how do i know the intona will supply enough current to work with ha1. i read intona max current out is 500mA.
  
 however if you have a mains powered dac with a usb input then the output current of the intona is not relevant here. it is only relevant then for usb powered dacs?? im still learning!! can someone check this.


----------



## dmance

Music,
Even powered DACs need some basic power on the DAC for handshake. My exaSound driver did not see the dAC when the power line was cut.
USB spec is 2A...that's what the mpu1 gives. Intona consumes some amps and I guess let's through just 500mA after filtering....enuf for a powered DAC


----------



## Yviena

Depends there are some DACs out there that need just power for the initial handshake, and then can disconnect the power wire.


----------



## Patu

Would love to try the Musical Paradise thing but the manual charge/on switch behind the unit is a pain in the ass. I wish it would work automatically and charge over night when not listening.


----------



## dmance

Patu,
Best design for battery is to not have any 'auto' circuit in the path. No AC charging when the battery is being drained. Minor inconvenience =better sound


----------



## Middy

robert mcadam said:


> I just checked out the MP-U1 USB Power Isolator 5V, the price is good, better than the Intona. I also thought the Intona galvanically isolates both the digital audio and power supply to the USB. Interesting as the Intona was developed solely for industrial purposes. Now even JCAT have adopted it to sell in a flash case to HiFi users.
> 
> Is the MP-UI inserted the same as the Intona? Computer - MP-UI - DAC2 - Amplifier.
> 
> Some guys on CA have been running separate power feeds to USB by splitting cable. I'm not keen to tweak things that much.




The Idefender does all the hard work if you don't like fiddling with wires....
Use what ever 5v feed you want... I use a 20000mah power bank. and you get a safe ground lift after handshake. But I run transport from my phone and the ifi Ipurifier 2+ intona kills the phone battery...
Just a note..I splashed out on a Airlink balanced isolation transformer....
Very nice boost. better bass... staging.. detail...but sound is on my B+W P7'S They woke up but I am waiting for the MS Ether flow upgrade to judge system additions and removals....

Sending me mad this hobby.... Scared to offer the wrong advice...Most kit you can't try before buying...


----------



## elviscaprice

I just replaced my HDPlex 100W LPS 5V output with a LPS-1 from Uptone.  I am feeding my PPA V2 USB card the 5V from the LPS-1 which in turn powers my Intona via USB adapter.
 Very noticeable veil is dropped.  Better detail throughout highs, lows and mids, especially the mids.  All around better balance in sound.  Note, I do not need the 5Vbus for my DAC.  So I've completely eliminated it following the Intona.  I also have eliminated the shield and have tested pulling the USB ground connection after handshake.  I notice no change in SQ with or without the USB ground.  Thus galvanic isolation is complete following the Intona to DAC.
  
 For testing your DAC, use tape over the 5Vbus pin.


----------



## Sybil

Hi hi everyone. Need a little bit of help here >,<"...

I've noticed that whenever my notebook experiences a change in activity (like when I'm loading up a huge file in InDesign or something) there's a pretty high chance that I will experience a temporary drop in my music (around 100-200ms, but it's annoying enough).

Sometimes it happens when I'm just browsing the web and I come across a page with a million elements to load too.

Would this product be likely to solve my problem?

I am a complete newbie when it comes to this, and there seems to be many such "USB isolator" products on the market. The Intona is the most appealing to me because it doesn't require another power adapter and I really would prefer to avoid more cables. I don't mind having "USB Cable -> USB Isolator -> USB Cable -> DAC"... but I do mind if I need another power cable going to the USB isolator.

Any thoughts? My DAC is the Grace Design M920 using the XMOS USB Audio 2.0 driver. Thank you for any help


----------



## borrego

sybil said:


> Hi hi everyone. Need a little bit of help here >,<"...
> 
> I've noticed that whenever my notebook experiences a change in activity (like when I'm loading up a huge file in InDesign or something) there's a pretty high chance that I will experience a temporary drop in my music (around 100-200ms, but it's annoying enough).
> 
> ...




As a start, change to have Windows prioritise to "Background" process under Control Panel, System, Performance (or something like that) tab.


----------



## Sybil

Tried all that already, nothing worked.

Also tried messing with process priorities, disabling a few services for the built-in audio, etc.

If I try USB 1.0 mode it's even worse >,<"... because the audio just completely dies until I restart my music player.

Never had this problem with my old DAC... so hope it's not an issue with the M920.

I already did mail Grace Design to ask for help and am awaiting their response.


----------



## Patu

You might have problems with your DPC latencies, which spike too high when the system is under load. Try to raise the buffer little bit from your audio player. It should help here. Disable all the power saving features of your system and from BIOS. Also update all your drivers if possible. 
  
 USB Isolator doesn't help with this kind of problems I'm afraid.


----------



## Sybil

Yep power savings all off because they're annoying lol. Also my buffer has already been increased to 2.0s, eep. Could try going longer but didn't notice a difference between default (0.5s I think?) and 2.0s.


----------



## Patu

sybil said:


> Yep power savings all off because they're annoying lol. Also my buffer has already been increased to 2.0s, eep. Could try going longer but didn't notice a difference between default (0.5s I think?) and 2.0s.


 
 Well that's weird. With 2.0s buffer there really shouldn't be any dropouts. Which audio player do you use? If there's an option to turn on a playback from memory then try to use it. Then the player buffers the whole song in system memory before playback. I'm not sure if it helps in your situation though.


----------



## Sybil

Hello. I use XMPlay with WASAPI and Exclusive Mode set.

Definitely not a problem with XMPlay; have been using this player with the same setup for a suuuper long time.

If I turn off WASAPI support I still get the same problem, so this does not seem to be the cause.

I also tried the maximum buffer which is 5.0s and I still have problems.

Though I'm starting to wonder if somehow the built-in RealTek driver on my notebook is causing problems.

I noticed that my CPU is experiencing high interrupt requests whenever I was playing music (even though I was not using the on-board RealTek), and after I turned off the RealTek service the number of interrupts dropped by a lot.

Will update this again if I encounter anymore problems.

*Edit/Update #1:* Wow, really this is a joke. Yes the problem was the RealTek service still running even though I am using XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST during playback. Seems maybe the RealTek driver trying to check when it can take over?! As said CPU interrupt requests were super high when the RealTek service was still running.

I need to keep RealTek for when I take notebook out, but hopefully just turning off the service is ok.

Unless anyone else has any other ideas? Sorry Sybil = a bit newbie at this. Very rarely do changes if nothing is broken, eep.

*Edit/Update #2:* Yep confirmed. Disabled RealTek service and removed all run-on-start RealTek exe and no more problems. Grr. Always hated RealTek, not first time cause me problems. Stupid. But yep, mostly no more dropout problems.


----------



## Patu

Network card and its drivers are one of the first things to check in this kind of situation. Download the newest realtek network card drivers and keep all the useless bundle software from running in the startup.
  
 Realtek drivers here: http://www.realtek.com/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=13&PFid=5&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false
  
 You can check from task manager - startup which programs run in the startup. Disable everything you don't need.


----------



## musickid

I have the intona industrial and so far lovely effect on my system. i don't fully understand the lights and the relevant status of the intona. could you briefly let me know;

1) intona on with computer on (both lights locked on dac off). is this standby mode?

2) as above (but with dac on no music playing). still standby?

3) computer in sleep but intona lights on. still standby?

4) finally on their websites it states blinking lights for 3 seconds to indicate connection state. it does blink when i put my imac to sleep but not sure about other various states and what the blinking lights are telling me?

apologies for this on a sunday but i want to understand the product. many thanks


----------



## punit

I tried the Intona USB isolator (industrial version) with my Audio GD NFB 7 (purchased 5 months back). It makes no difference. The NFB 7 USB (Amanero) is really high quality.


----------



## elviscaprice

punit said:


> I tried the Intona USB isolator (industrial version) with my Audio GD NFB 7 (purchased 5 months back). It makes no difference. The NFB 7 USB (Amanero) is really high quality.


 
  
 What was the component chain from streamer to DAC?


----------



## punit

My chain is Mac mini - Intona - Dac


----------



## Middy

dmance said:


> The MP-U1 uses high quality Panasonic batteries LDO regulated to get noise under 5uV. I have run everything on this: my DAC, Chromecast Audio, Dragonfly Red. Makes a huge difference...and seems to last forever on battery. No concern there.
> Yes..PC-MPU1-DAC...the box splits out the power... leaves data lines as is. you just need a short USB bridge cable.




Apologies Dmance..
I completely missed the purpose of this by not looking at how it works... and that power banks are 3.7v not 5v and noisy regulators.... 
I splashed out again with some xmas money..to see if it does improve feeding the intona.... I'd love the LPS1 but cost is a factor...
I'd just be using it as an 5v feeder supply and not a data/ 5v splitter. 
But both will be tried.
So much trouble this DAC feeding but it is fun trying new things...

Have a good xmas break all....
Be save have fun

Dave


----------



## elviscaprice

punit said:


> I tried the Intona USB isolator (industrial version) with my Audio GD NFB 7 (purchased 5 months back). It makes no difference. The NFB 7 USB (Amanero) is really high quality.


 
  
  


punit said:


> My chain is Mac mini - Intona - Dac


 
  
  
 Don't know what your doing here, not to notice results with the Intona?  Nothing spectacular about that DAC, no galvanic isolation that I could see.  Nothing spectacular about the Mac mini.  Guess we would need more details about what your comparison chain is.  Connectors, power supplies, everything from the streamer to the DAC.


----------



## WNBC

Anybody ever have a stubborn USB cable get stuck in the Intona (industrial version)?  Right now it doesn't matter because I don't plan on swapping cables any time soon, but I have a WireWorld Starlight 7 stuck in my Intona (USB B entry side).  I have pulled with moderate force with no sign of budging.  I have been hesitant to give it the full 100% tug.  I read somewhere the connection interface was made to be snug to prevent the cable from being loose, but mine is above and beyond snug.  Could be the fault of either the cable or box.  Just looked at some online pics of the inside of the Intona.  Guess there is not much I can really break by pulling.  Agree?


----------



## musickid

I had the same issue at first. once the intona warms up you should find the cable comes out with little sidewards movements. when you put the usb in you will hear a click sound to confirm its attached that's normal.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the tip, I will give it a try later.
  
 Quote:


musickid said:


> I had the same issue at first. once the intona warms up you should find the cable comes out with little sidewards movements. when you put the usb in you will hear a click sound to confirm its attached that's normal.


----------



## musickid

My intona industrial is working fine. i have a WD external hard drive attached to my imac and when the imac is in sleep the HD continues to operate quietly in the background and the intona's light flickers occasionally indicating it is in standby. intona have told me this is normal. when i wake the imac i get a string of messages saying the harddrive was not ejected properly. this does not happen when i switch the computer off and on again. there is no harm being done as the hard drive and intona are working as intended. i have the mac and HD plugged into a mains conditioner/master slave surge socket with the imac as master. ie the othe devices only operate when the imac is on. not really a problem but can someone explain why the HD is behaving like this? many thanks


----------



## Weatherlight

A friend of mine told me a huge industrial facility in her area is closing down and selling a bunch of these for an equivalent of $150/pc. Barely a year old.


----------



## Benny-x

weatherlight said:


> A friend of mine told me a huge industrial facility in her area is closing down and selling a bunch of these for an equivalent of $150/pc. Barely a year old.



The Intona itself is barely a year old... Do you have any like to these? I'd be pretty interested in buying some if there was a way.


----------



## Blueshound24

Ok, I just joined the Intona club. I am very happy with the Industrial Intona's performance. So far I hear instruments and voices emerging from a blacker background with a much better soundstage. Not just more accurate placement, but my God I can get up and walk among the performers! The soundstage is unreal. Also, the separation has taken a major leap forward, as well as air around all afore mentioned voices and instruments. The tonality and texture have all improved as well. I am very happy with the Intona, and now I am considering getting the UltraCap LPS-1 for my Uptone Regen. Where does it ever end? I do not regret this purchase one bit. If interested, you can see my chain on my profile page. 
  
 I have the order as: Computer -> Intona -> Regen -> DAC.
 Is this the order everybody who has the Regen concurs is optimal?
 Also, anyone with experience with the UltraCap LPS?


----------



## Middy

Shed loads on Computer audiophile with the LPS1 ask there for specifics.


----------



## motberg

blueshound24 said:


> Ok, I just joined the Intona club. I am very happy with the Industrial Intona's performance. So far I hear instruments and voices emerging from a blacker background with a much better soundstage. Not just more accurate placement, but my God I can get up and walk among the performers! The soundstage is unreal. Also, the separation has taken a major leap forward, as well as air around all afore mentioned voices and instruments. The tonality and texture have all improved as well. I am very happy with the Intona, and now I am considering getting the UltraCap LPS-1 for my Uptone Regen. Where does it ever end? I do not regret this purchase one bit. If interested, you can see my chain on my profile page.
> 
> I have the order as: Computer -> Intona -> Regen -> DAC.
> Is this the order everybody who has the Regen concurs is optimal?
> Also, anyone with experience with the UltraCap LPS?


 

 IMO, you have the correct idea... computer USB -> isolate -> reclock/clean power/etc.->DAC or DDC
 I use computer/USB card/LPS->Intona->Recovery/LPS1->DDC
 Technically, it should be a great benefit to have isolated power (like the LPS1 or a battery pack) to power the Regen after the Intona to maintain the Intona GI, but the real audible benefit (if any) will depend on your current power source for the Regen.
 (Note maybe the Intona would benefit from cleaner power also, such as a powered USB card or 5v inserted before the Intona.)
  
 One extra nice thing about the LPS1 is its flexibility, I think that makes it a good investment to consider and should help hold its resale value.... but it is expensive, so maybe good to check with Uptone if there is an evaluation period available.
  
 In my case,  I made too many changes at the same time to evaluate the LPS1 benefit directly, but it certainly is at least as good as the power chain I had used before (Audio GD HE-350 220v regenerator->upgraded 2.5A TeraDak LPS->iFi DC iPurifier... total cost over 2000 USD...)


----------



## Benny-x

motberg said:


> In my case,  I made too many changes at the same time to evaluate the LPS1 benefit directly, but it certainly is at least as good as the power chain I had used before (Audio GD HE-350 220v regenerator->upgraded 2.5A TeraDak LPS->iFi DC iPurifier... total cost over 2000 USD...)




Do you still have the HE-350, Teradak, or DC iPurifier? They're all things I'm interested in, along with the LPS-1, and it'd be interesting to hear how you're using them in your chain.


----------



## motberg

benny-x said:


> Do you still have the HE-350, Teradak, or DC iPurifier? They're all things I'm interested in, along with the LPS-1, and it'd be interesting to hear how you're using them in your chain.


 

 Hi Ben, I now use the HE-350 for the Tanly DDC, the Audio-GD NOS7 DAC and the Audio GD M1 preamp.
 (The best way to describe the effect of the HE-350 is that, after installing it, I no longer felt the need to wait until 2:00 AM to have my best listening sessions. It really helped solidify my system's sound signature... it seems to provide a stable, dark, clean base for these 3 source-related  machines)
 The Uptone LPS-1 is powering a W4S Recovery which is in-between an Industrial Intona and the Tanly. So that allows me to keep the GI from the Intona, and still get the full benefit of the Recovery superior re-clocking.
 I am using a 1.8m PPA dual USB cable from the computer (which has a PPA v2 USB card, powered by a Teradak DC-30 LPS with an iFi-DC iPurifier) to the Intona, then a short PPA cable to the Recovery then another short PPA cable to the Tanly DDC.
  
 I have bought a lot of Teradak LPS units, but I think the one I mentioned above (which was used prior for the Recovery) had these upgraded parts:
 Talema toroidal transformer 30VA
 FURUTECH gold coated ICE socket：
 Mundorf ripple caps：
 gold coated socket + OYAIDE 5.5*2.1/2.5 DC connector：
 Neotech OCC wires：
 723 based PSU unit
 (I really do not know much about this, but my observations using this one is the sound is improved over the standard LPS.)
  
 For the iFi DC iPurifier, my observations is that it gives a Teradak standard DC-30 more of a quieter, battery-type sound , but without the mushy bass I found with some of my past battery solutions.
 (I have an extra DC-iPurifier here now, if you like to give it a try send me a PM and I will send it to you after the CNY festivities clear up...)
  
 My current Intona was delivered June 2016 - it has functioned rock-solid from day one...
 I also had one of the first batch Standard Intonas' which was a bit more hesitant with locking up to the USB feed.. but this recent one has never faulted with my gear.. less than a second after power is supplied to the downstream device (in my case the Recovery) I get an instant lock on the Intona.  
  
 I also have a Uptone Regen, which has a different presentation than the Recovery.. and will try the Regen again soon in place of the Recovery to re-check which has the better fit (The Regen seems to be more dynamic, the Recovery a little more laid-back in my system) .
  
 The equipment in my profile is up to date if you like to check the details of the computer.


----------



## Blueshound24

motberg said:


> blueshound24 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I just joined the Intona club. I am very happy with the Industrial Intona's performance. So far I hear instruments and voices emerging from a blacker background with a much better soundstage. Not just more accurate placement, but my God I can get up and walk among the performers! The soundstage is unreal. Also, the separation has taken a major leap forward, as well as air around all afore mentioned voices and instruments. The tonality and texture have all improved as well. I am very happy with the Intona, and now I am considering getting the UltraCap LPS-1 for my Uptone Regen. Where does it ever end? I do not regret this purchase one bit. If interested, you can see my chain on my profile page.
> ...


 
 Thanks.
 The LPS-1 may be my next purchase and like you said with it's flexibility, it could maybe power some other stuff I use as well. I have wondered about the GI the Intona does, and then having it followed by the Regen which is not GI'd until the LPS-1 is placed in the chain, if I understand it correctly.
  
 However, I am seriously considering getting the upgrade kit for my PS Audio PerfectWave to the DirectStream but that is a significant bite out of my upgrade budget and I will have to save up for that. I have read that it is a big improvement.


----------



## musickid

im thinking of upgrading to metrum musette dac. ive been told its usb is already galvanically isolated. i have a intona so would there be any drawbacks to using it with this dac? thanks.


----------



## jcn3

musickid said:


> im thinking of upgrading to metrum musette dac. ive been told its usb is already galvanically isolated. i have a intona so would there be any drawbacks to using it with this dac? thanks.


 
  
 should be no drawbacks -- of course you'd have to listen to see if there is a benefit.


----------



## TopQuark

> Originally Posted by *Blueshound24* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have the order as: Computer -> Intona -> Regen -> DAC.
> Is this the order everybody who has the Regen concurs is optimal?
> Also, anyone with experience with the UltraCap LPS?


 
 I had a Regen after Intona but it took the details away from my system. It didn't matter whether the Regen is before or after Intona. Some are getting good results with it but not in my setup. I am thinking it because the Intona needs short cable going into the DAC so they use the power from the supply going into the Regen.
  
 Intona doesn't add to the data coming in. It just isolates the signal and power then regenerate it just like what Regen does it and more and does it better.  If you can get an LPS going into the computer, that is the better set-up.


----------



## elviscaprice

blueshound24 said:


> Ok, I just joined the Intona club. I am very happy with the Industrial Intona's performance. So far I hear instruments and voices emerging from a blacker background with a much better soundstage. Not just more accurate placement, but my God I can get up and walk among the performers! The soundstage is unreal. Also, the separation has taken a major leap forward, as well as air around all afore mentioned voices and instruments. The tonality and texture have all improved as well. I am very happy with the Intona, and now I am considering getting the UltraCap LPS-1 for my Uptone Regen. Where does it ever end? I do not regret this purchase one bit. If interested, you can see my chain on my profile page.
> 
> I have the order as: Computer -> Intona -> Regen -> DAC.
> Is this the order everybody who has the Regen concurs is optimal?
> Also, anyone with experience with the UltraCap LPS?


 

 ​Yes, you have it right.  That being said it's all about the power being fed to all those devices.  It all matters.  The thing is after applying galvanic isolation with the Intona you don't want to reintroduce stray AC noise or ground loop with the Regen.  Critical to power the regen galvanically with either a LifePo4 battery or LPS-1.


----------



## slex

Answer to itona with external power supply?

http://www.fa.hdl.co.jp/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220&Itemid=900


----------



## rsbrsvp

Anyone willing to sell me their intona?  Please PM me..


----------



## musickid

with asynchrous usb the dac is control with its clock in timing the signal from the computer by sending packets of data to the pc controlling how and when information is received. with an intona or something like a regen is the dac asynchrous usb still fully in control as these devices  also reclock the incoming data. if the dac is sending info and commands upstream back to the computer for timing does the digtal data have to pass through the intona or regen in the opposite direction back to the pc. if so do these devices interrupt the dac usb asynchrous to computer communication? thanks mk


----------



## T Bone

robert mcadam said:


> I found the industrial Intona has similar effect and have now removed it from my setup. Computer-*Benchmark DAC2-Amplifier.*


 
  
 My apologies for doing a "necro-thread", but I've been researching the Intona and had something relevant to Robert's post that I thought worthy of sharing.
  
 I recently had a chance to evaluate the "new" Benchmark DAC-3.  It sounded amazing plugged directly into my laptop with a non-descript USB cable.  
  
 Some DAC's have much better USB input implementations than others.  The USB input on the Benchmark that I evaluated was rock solid - "decrapification" was not required. On the other hand, I recently purchased a Holo Spring DAC.  I found its USB performance to be lackluster.  It took a $300 industrial Intona to clean up the poor USB signal from my laptop before I could get the performance out of the Spring DAC that I expected.   
  
 I wouldn't recommend an Intona be paired with a Benchmark DAC.  IMO, it doesn't need it.
 It all depends on the "robustness" and quality of your device's USB implementation.  Some DACs with "poorer performing" USB sections will really benefit from the Intona, others don't need it.  YMMV.


----------



## Robert McAdam

T Bone, have to say I have put it back after an upgrade in the audio software I was running(XXhighend). But still not convinced its the answer.
  
 Benchmark certainly claimed to me that it was unnecessary because the USB input on my DAC2 was optimised.
  
 What was interesting is that an earlier version of software XXhighend using Intona did improve the sound easily. Then the next version with an upgraded W10OS things went backwards again. It improved some things and degraded others in the sound.
  
 I'm currently watching this space re NOS dacs as I may go this way rather than the DAC3. Unfortunately the Holo's USB input is not the best compared to Is2 with another box.
  
 XXhighend is of course designed to go with the NOSa DAC which if I had the money would buy over the Pavane. The Holo certainly looking good at the moment.


----------



## elviscaprice

t bone said:


> My apologies for doing a "necro-thread", but I've been researching the Intona and had something relevant to Rober's post that I thought worthy of sharing.
> 
> I recently had a chance to evaluate the "new" Benchmark DAC-3.  It sounded amazing plugged directly into my laptop with a non-descript USB cable.
> 
> ...


 

 ​Or the question might be, if Benchmark had less galvanic implementation, would it sound better with an Intona than without, with full implementation?  That's the mind bender.
 If so, then maybe a DAC that doesn't try to do all to prevent outside contamination and allow implementation from the customer separate, just concentrating on great digital analog conversion, might be the better DAC overall?
 Same goes for power.  I want a DAC that allows me freedom to power it with a better source and is optimized for being optional.
 Everything matters.


----------



## T Bone

robert mcadam said:


> What was interesting is that an earlier version of software XXhighend using Intona did improve the sound easily. Then the next version with an upgraded W10OS things went backwards again. It improved some things and degraded others in the sound.


 
 I will point you to this interesting article by Michael Lavorgna on AudioStream.com

How bit-perfect software can affect sound
  
 I am not qualified to weigh in with an opinion as to whether this is the situation you've encountered or not.  I thought I'd share it with you and let you come to your own conclusions.  
  
 I am glad that you made your own evaluation and figured out what sounds best to you.   In the end, that's all that matters.
  


elviscaprice said:


> I want a DAC that allows me freedom to power it with a better source and is optimized for being optional.  Everything matters.


 
  
 I agree - everything matters.  You might be familiar with the engineering term "stacking tolerances".  It's essentially the cumulative effect of the tolerances of multiple independent components. 

 For me, there comes a practical limit at which I'm not willing to throw any more $$$ at increasingly smaller performance gains.


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## T Bone

I spent some time putting together an "official" review of the Intona USB Isolator for the HeadFi community.
 You can read it here:

*The ugly USB Device That Works!*


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## No Disc

Has any of the Intona owners found the quality of the upstream USB cable to make much of a difference? i.e. The cable going from computer to the Intona?


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## T Bone

no disc said:


> Has any of the Intona owners found the quality of the upstream USB cable to make much of a difference? i.e. The cable going from computer to the Intona?


 
 You might want to consider positioning your Intona very close to your USB device and keeping the "clean side" cable as short as possible.  (  6" "daisy chain" cable )  With a very short run of cable from the Intona to your USB device, there is little opportunity for RF to pollute the "clean" output of the Intona.  The length of the "dirty" side USB cable between the Intona and PC won't really matter.
  
 If you keep the "clean side" cable nice and short, the need for exotic USB cables begins to fade and their use may offer limited returns.


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## JR1911

Anyone tried the Intona with Marantz HD-DAC1?


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## Patu

t bone said:


> You might want to consider positioning your Intona very close to your USB device and keeping the "clean side" cable as short as possible.  (  6" "daisy chain" cable )  With a very short run of cable from the Intona to your USB device, there is little opportunity for RF to pollute the "clean" output of the Intona.  The length of the "dirty" side USB cable between the Intona and PC won't really matter.
> 
> If you keep the "clean side" cable nice and short, the need for exotic USB cables begins to fade and their use may offer limited returns.


 
  
 I asked about this from the manufacturer. They also suggested to keep the clean side shorter. In my system I use one 5m and one 1m Chord Silver Plus USB cable between computer, intona and my USB bridge. I experimented both ways, Intona in the PC end and Intona at the USB bridge end and I actually preferred the PC side more. I felt that the sound got little bit harsher and clinical when Intona was closer to the hifi setup. Also my rig is positioned so that if I move the Intona closer to the hifi setup, it will have to be somewhere behind my rack and it's a mess of power cables and other stuff which can be bad for Intona. In PC end, I can isolate the device from other cables completely.


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## T Bone

When I first joined Head-Fi and posted an introductory message, someone replied to me "*welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet*".
 I didn't really get it at first.  In fact, I was a little taken aback.  Fast forward a couple of years and I know EXACTLY what the person meant 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am selling my Intona (here) and will try some other fancy new USB products.  I've been thoroughly impressed with the Intona - I wrote a review on it.  But this is Head-Fi and the primary activity of this hobby seems to be making increasingly larger purchases that chase smaller and smaller benefits.  So I'm off to the next wonder-gizmo.


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## Middy

Hopefully I should have the LPS1 In my hands today. My set up is phone based unlike many here so experiments in improving the chain have been minor at best with battery and IFI add ons.
I have the IFI DEFENDER but that with a DC female to micro Usb male I can bypass the phone/ external battery pack I have and plug in the LPS1 USB 5v chain. See what constant clean power gives the intona?. A lot less noise off a phone than a laptop PC. My extra battery made no difference in sound to me other than extend the phone battery life by drawing from the external pack.
But with the pain of more charging cables. ..
Any instant results I will let you know ASAP.
Cheers
Dave 
and thanks for the impressions Mr T 
The Intona improved the sound on my phone transport. Bit perfect on USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO Android App.

Have fun all
Dave


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## Middy

10 minutes in...Oh my very nice and I wasn't expecting much. More bass, crisper notes. The LSD effect..hearing things that weren't there before...
This is on a silly centipede of decrapifiers ending in the Intona.
Better wider longer than battery.
There's a sentence every man would be proud of..My wife however..
.
Give the Caps some time to settle over a few days and have some serious listening but as of now very happy.
LPS-1 Uptone 5v replacement power.
Cheers 
Dave


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## T Bone

middy said:


> This is on a silly centipede of decrapifiers ending in the Intona.


 
 Dave - If you want to reduce the "daisy chain" of USB modules; I think you might be pleased with the performance of the Intona by itself.


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## T Bone

t bone said:


> I am selling my Intona (here) and will try some other fancy new USB products.  I've been thoroughly impressed with the Intona - I wrote a review on it.  But this is Head-Fi and the primary activity of this hobby seems to be making increasingly larger purchases that chase smaller and smaller benefits.  So I'm off to the next wonder-gizmo.


 
 I sold my Intona and I have to tell you; I miss it!
 I feel like the wide soundstage I once enjoyed has shrunk.  There is less air and separation.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The Intona really does make a significant difference.  I didn't think I would miss it as much as I do.


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## Middy

iam going to keep mine until I get the ISO regen. To combine or remove.
I know what you mean about getting OTT with different devices. Mutec Rednet ect.
Nothing yet that gives us everything.
But the LPS1 made the Intona shine.
No free lunch on cost..not with this hobby.But better all the same.
Sound advice though Tbone.. more isn't always better.

Goodluck Dave


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## winders

middy said:


> iam going to keep mine until I get the ISO regen. To combine or remove.
> I know what you mean about getting OTT with different devices. Mutec Rednet ect.
> Nothing yet that gives us everything.
> But the LPS1 made the Intona shine.
> ...


 

 Why would you combine? The Intona only isolates and the ISO Regen does that better and does more!


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## Middy

it reclocks as well via the two Spartans. Cleaning up into the ISO isn't a bad thing. You know people will have double lps1's on the same Iso even though John says it won't matter.
IF the intona adds anything pre ISO it can stay.
Some have double mutec's in series and like it. Some like my crazy experiments snaking devices add nothing or take some 'freshness' out.
I have no idea what will happen or suggest people rush out and buy an extra intona. I buy for fun and community knowledge.. I will try both together and see what happens. I know others will.. But T-bones point is well made and like you John's ISO may be more than enough..

I got the LPS1 for the ISO. But a 5v hack bypass jumped the Intona to another level of detail showing power makes a difference. 15% better in my scale of simple thinking.
Power into my AMP DAC made a difference....
 balanced isolation transformer. sinewave generator 12V LPS... USB with the Lps1. . But it adds up and starts again into diminishing returns.
I think I could have a full Schitt rig but even they with endgame rigs still push for that bit more.

The playing with items at my personal expense within reason is half the fun.
Better to wait for a general consensus before spending like me.

Sorry to go on...just tired and stressed... ignore me..

NN all
 Dave


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## ajreynol

Hey guys, how does this compare with the Schiit Wyrd?


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## sheldaze

ajreynol said:


> Hey guys, how does this compare with the Schiit Wyrd?


 
 Honestly, it depends - first on how poor your source is, and second on what you are feeding into. I found the Wyrd to help when power was being consumed by the end product. The Meridian products were greatly helped by the Wyrd. But I also found the Chord Hugo to improve tremendously. It was no longer the brittle, bright DAC that people had suggested it could be. No longer owning a Hugo, I was still using the Wyrd for a Chord Mojo. Then I bought the Intona. Into the Mojo, which does not need the USB power (from Wyrd), I find the Intona to be better - period. And that is where it stays, as I'm listening to it right this moment.
  
 Shortened - I find the Intona better. But there are applications where having a clean powered USB source can help, such as for Meridian. If however power feeding into your output device is basically going to be ignored, I find the Intona universally better.


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## ajreynol

sheldaze said:


> Honestly, it depends - first on how poor your source is, and second on what you are feeding into. I found the Wyrd to help when power was being consumed by the end product. The Meridian products were greatly helped by the Wyrd. But I also found the Chord Hugo to improve tremendously. It was no longer the brittle, bright DAC that people had suggested it could be. No longer owning a Hugo, I was still using the Wyrd for a Chord Mojo. Then I bought the Intona. Into the Mojo, which does not need the USB power (from Wyrd), I find the Intona to be better - period. And that is where it stays, as I'm listening to it right this moment.
> 
> Shortened - I find the Intona better. But there are applications where having a clean powered USB source can help, such as for Meridian. If however power feeding into your output device is basically going to be ignored, I find the Intona universally better.


 
 Interesting.
  
 I'm using a Nuforce DAC-80 which has its own power supply, plugged into a Lyr 2 amp. My source is my desktop PC which is quite new (i7 6700k, 32GB ram, SSD, 1080, etc.). I haven't noticed any noise or feedback issues in my audio experience with my setup. Nothing is being powered by USB in my chain.
  
 Could this product still be of benefit to me?


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## Robert McAdam

You need to try it before buying. I have one and still use it and it does improve some aspects of the sound. But I'm not convinced its the right answer I can't describe what the negatives are but it has some.


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## sheldaze

ajreynol said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I'm using a Nuforce DAC-80 which has its own power supply, plugged into a Lyr 2 amp. My source is my desktop PC which is quite new (i7 6700k, 32GB ram, SSD, 1080, etc.). I haven't noticed any noise or feedback issues in my audio experience with my setup. Nothing is being powered by USB in my chain.
> 
> Could this product still be of benefit to me?


 
 Did a recent comparison of a number of USB cleanup products. One of the guys who participated has a very clean home computer. When he went home and started to listen for the same issues, which he could clearly hear from my test 2008 laptop, he heard no such problems on his home system - promptly removed the Wyrd from his system, as it seemed unnecessary.
  
 It is really one of those things that is hard to tell. I found out when I plugged a DAC into another computer I had, and heard the noise drop dramatically. If you have another computer, or a friend with a different setup than you, perhaps you can hear the deltas. But I'd not advise to just purchase in the blind, unless you know you have issues to be fixed.


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## ajreynol

Understood. Thanks, guys!


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## Middy

Or just be patient there may be a few hitting the market soon second hand cheap....


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## T Bone

ajreynol said:


> Hey guys, how does this compare with the Schiit Wyrd?


 
 I'll second the other replies posted here.
 I had the Schiit Wyrd and it did nothing my Holo Spring DAC.  The Intona made a significant difference in my system and was well worth the $$$.
  
 I sold my Intona with plans to order the new Uptone ISO Regen when they become available.  It's difference is sorely missed!  It's going to be a long couple of weeks until I get a USB "decrapifier" back in my chain.  
  
 *EDIT*
 While writing this post, I recalled that had a Holo "Titanis" kicking around the office.  While it's no Intona, it will hold me over till the ISO Regen's start shipping.


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## InsanityOne

Hello,
  
 Can anyone provide me some assistance with my new Intona Industrial Edition (Black) please? My setup is as follows:
  
 Desktop PC --- LH Labs LightSpeed 1G 1.0M ---> Intona Industrial --- LH Labs LightSpeed 1G 1.0M ---> Schiit Gungnir USB
  
 The problem I am experiencing is that I cannot establish any sort of connection with the Intona. When connected to the USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports of my desktop _or _laptop, Windows 10 immediately reports the device as "unrecognized." Both machines are running the latest Windows 10 "creators" update.
  
 The USB 3.1 ports on my desktop seem like they are going to work, because I can hear the Gungnir's relay switching on and off, but then a solid connection is never established and the Intona goes into "suspend" mode. Are my USB cables the problem? 2.0M is the shortest amount of cable I can have between my PC and the Gungnir. Is 2.0M of cable just too much? Or is there something else at play here?
  
*EDIT: *I grabbed a completely random printer cable from storage and discovered something interesting. I will illustrate:
  
 Desktop PC --- Random Printer Cable ---> Intona Industrial --- LH Labs LightSpeed 1G 1.0M ---> Schiit Gungnir USB [THIS DID NOT WORK]
  
 Desktop PC --- LH Labs LightSpeed 1G 1.0M ---> Intona Industrial --- Random Printer Cable ---> Schiit Gungnir USB [THIS _DID _WORK]
  
 I confirmed that neither of the LH Labs cables are faulty as well, so it must be something weird about the LH labs cables that prevents them from working properly between the Intona and the DAC. In that case, does anyone have any quality USB cables that they recommend for using along with the Intona?
  
 Thanks!
  
 - InsanityOne


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## johangrb

InsanityOne said:


> Hello,
> 
> Can anyone provide me some assistance with my new Intona Industrial Edition (Black) please? My setup is as follows:
> 
> ...



I also find that USB cables make a difference -experiment. Also - you might have to look into getting the firmware upgrade. (I'm currently on the list to get mine updated).


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## InsanityOne

johangrb said:


> I also find that USB cables make a difference -experiment. Also - you might have to look into getting the firmware upgrade. (I'm currently on the list to get mine updated).



I am glad that I am not the only one who experiences this. As for getting the firmware upgraded, am I still allowed to do that even if I bought my Intona secondhand? I don't have the receipt but I do have the original packaging.

- InsanityOne


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## johangrb

InsanityOne said:


> I am glad that I am not the only one who experiences this. As for getting the firmware upgraded, am I still allowed to do that even if I bought my Intona secondhand? I don't have the receipt but I do have the original packaging.
> 
> - InsanityOne


I also bought mine 2nd hand - they still allow it. Contact Daniel via their website.


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## maxh22

What exactly does the firmware update do in regards to SQ?


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## InsanityOne

johangrb said:


> I also bought mine 2nd hand - they still allow it. Contact Daniel via their website.



Nice! I will do that for sure!



maxh22 said:


> What exactly does the firmware update do in regards to SQ?



It shouldn't do anything for SQ, it should only improve the functionality / reliability of the device. (AFAIK)

- InsanityOne


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## johangrb

InsanityOne said:


> Nice! I will do that for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is correct - not SQ but makes it work with more devices.


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## heo44

Hello,
I really concern about the Intona. Is it worth the money up till now ??
My set up right now : Laptop -> Audioquest Coffee usb -> Chord Hugo ( can Hugo get any benefits from this isolator ?! )


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## Robert McAdam (Jan 8, 2019)

Hi to know whether its worth it you need to try one out for yourself. I personally went and bought one as others raved about its ability to improve without listening two years ago. It did change the sound and I thought for the better but after listening for some three months and removing it I found it had a slight glazing effect on the sound not dissimilar to what I have heard trying many power supply devices/filters. These devices do some good things but underlying also take something away. My Intona has been back in a year later and removed straight away. It now lies in a cupboard with other devices I have tried over the years. All these devices are band aids and can improve sound depending on your current system hence try it. Find a second hand one. You have an excellent DAC I suggest you replace your laptop with a dedicated fanless PC would give you much greater improvement. I have yet to hear any laptop that beats a standalone dedicated audio PC. The source is always the most critical to sound. You would not believe the sound you are missing by running a laptop. I started with a laptop many years ago and will never go back.


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## heo44

Robert McAdam said:


> Hi to know whether its worth it you need to try one out for yourself. I personally went and bought one as others raved about its ability to improve without listening two years ago. It did change the sound and I thought for the better but after listening for some three months and removing it I found it had a slight glazing effect on the sound not dissimilar to what I have heard trying many power supply devices/filters. These devices do some good things but underlying also take something away. My Intona has been back in a year later and removed straight away. It now lies in a cupboard with other devices I have tried over the years. All these devices are band aids and can improve sound depending on your current system hence try it. Find a second hand one. You have an excellent DAC I suggest you replace your laptop with a dedicated fanless PC would give you much greater improvement. I have yet to hear any laptop that beats a standalone dedicated audio PC. The source is always the most critical to sound. You would not believe the sound you are missing by running a laptop. I started with a laptop many years ago and will never go back.



Appreciated your advice. I plan to finish my chain systems first then the final step is the laptop (source). Because at first, I think if I invest money to good cable so it can deal with the distortion on usb port. I will give it a try on Intona


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## defbear

I have a couple of Jitterbugs that work to improve the sound a bit. I tried one of the most popular noise de-crapifiers called The Regen. It did not do a thing in any of my ‘setups’. But the Intona! I bought the more expensive of the two. Worth every penny. Better clarity. Separation of instruments. And buzzword blah blah on and on. Can’t do without it. But TONS of Head-fiers love The Regen. I haven’t tried the Regen with my new Audeze Mobius headphones yet!


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## heo44 (Jan 17, 2019)

After listening in few hours, It seems like Intona put a thin layer on the sound that doesn't mean the sound is dull or not clear. Normally, I will get tired after listening around 1 hour but with Intona it feel like more relax.
There are few thoughts after i listen a Intona Standard version.

Edit: Its not like a thin layer, it feel like the sound a little bit recess.
My setup : laptop - supra usb cable - Intona - Audioquest coffee cable - Hugo - Rs2e


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## Peti

I have been using the Intone 3.0 in my system for a while and since y'day it stopped working, meaning, the computer won't detect the dac if it goes through the Intona. When the dac is directly connected to the laptop, it works like a charm. I tried to test all my usb cables, and it was always the same result, so I ruled out the cables as the source of the problem. anyone could help me out on this with a good advice? This little thing makes a nice difference in my system and I intend to keep using it. Thank you


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## motberg

Peti said:


> I have been using the Intone 3.0 in my system for a while and since y'day it stopped working, meaning, the computer won't detect the dac if it goes through the Intona. When the dac is directly connected to the laptop, it works like a charm. I tried to test all my usb cables, and it was always the same result, so I ruled out the cables as the source of the problem. anyone could help me out on this with a good advice? This little thing makes a nice difference in my system and I intend to keep using it. Thank you


it sounds like maybe a power problem - I would try another USB port...


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## tholt

Just ordered a 2019 version Intona 7055-B (not the USB 3.0 version). It will be here in a few days. I have 30 days to demo. Found a page on another forum where users of the €23,000 Taiko Extreme server said it actually made a difference (!?!? ). Looking forward to trying it. Anyone have one and use it with a power supply? That was the main reason I wanted to try the newer version vs the older version. I have a couple 5v LPSUs to try.


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## tholt

Intona in the house. I knew it was small, but didn't realize how small! It's about the size of your outstretched hand. Very light as well. So far it's been 16 hours or so of playing. I hear potential -- layering is more distinct; more definition, cleaner sounding overall. I may be hearing a bit more recessed soundstage and tighter (but not as deep bass), maybe a bit more congested. They seem like things that may get sorted with burn in so will continue to play and see.

Have not tried using an external PSU yet, want to give it more time without first.


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## Sound Eq

greetings can i ask if my intel nuc only has usb 3, can i use the intona usb 2.0 the one on the link below, as a friend of mine is selling one

https://intona.eu/en/products/7054


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## motberg

Sound Eq said:


> greetings can i ask if my intel nuc only has usb 3, can i use the intona usb 2.0 the one on the link below, as a friend of mine is selling one
> 
> https://intona.eu/en/products/7054



I am using an external 4TB HDD in USB 3.0 case, to an original Intona Industrial, into a Matrix USB3.0 pcie card [on PC motherboard]. Works perfectly with no connection problems. This is not your typical usage, but this setup easily beats an internal SSD using similar power sources [LT3045 regulated LPS's]. You would need check that you have the correct connectors on the cables though.


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## Sound Eq

another thing i noticed when i use upsampling in roon with intona it does not work and big static noise comes our from speakers

does intona not support upsamiling in roon, or is it cause i am using intona usb 2 while my intel nuc has only usb 3, once i remove intona upsampling in roon works perfectly


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## VonBoedfeld

Hi,

someone using the industrial version with a Squeezebox Touch?

I am having trouble to get it work with my RME ADI 2 DAC.
It only works if I first do a connection between Squeezebox and DAC without the isolator and then unplug the cable and put the isolator in the chain.
I bought the Isolator used and the owner told me he bought it last year.
Could it be that i need the firmware update


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## Infoseeker (Dec 28, 2021)

Sound Eq said:


> another thing i noticed when i use upsampling in roon with intona it does not work and big static noise comes our from speakers
> 
> does intona not support upsamiling in roon, or is it cause i am using intona usb 2 while my intel nuc has only usb 3, once i remove intona upsampling in roon works perfectly



Sorry for such a resurrecting this post. But I have been told before that simple adding a cheap USB hub between the intona-&-pc will fix this issue. The usb hub can do the handshaking for roon. While the Intona can do its passive thing.


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## Atriya (Sep 16, 2022)

Do I understand correctly that it is more important to inject "clean" 5V power into the USB VBUS _after_ an Intona, rather than _before_ it?

The new Intona models have an AUX power supply input. Would feeding this AUX input with clean 5V power serve this purpose?


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