# Grover Cables 2007 - Grover S



## DarkAngel

This thread is to continue discussion of Gover Huffman's cable designs as they evolve, current model is Grover S. 

 If you wish to purchase Grover cables or have questions contact him directly by email, no website:
groverhuffman@hotmail.com


 I have purchased *Grover S* ICs and speaker cables this time:







 The *Grover S* interconnects are still cooking on FryKleaner right now, I now use a full week of conditioning on ICs before listening in system. If you look closely at translucent jacket of Grover S speaker cable you may see that conductors are silver and copper flat ribbons and not round section wires, very interesting........

 I hope people don't get the wrong impression that we are a bunch of puppets blindly hyping Grovers cables, just trying to let members know about a great product. I just recently sold many extra audiophile name brand cables I had in my "collection" and this mostly funded my purchase of new Rega Saturn, I am saving some real money now with Grover cables.

 Grover is very small one man shop that loves audio and offers a great product at very reasonable price with cheap upgrades. The only way his cables are known is word of mouth of users from web forums like Head-Fi, no advertising or sales people etc.


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## DarkAngel

Comments of Grover S cables from end of two other Grover threads:
Grover S
Grover S

 Will post my own comments on Grover S in the near future, looking for more comments from any members who have the Gover S cables............


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## chesebert

what gauge are the cables?
 What is the construction geometry?

 thx


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what gauge are the cables?
 What is the construction geometry?
 thx_

 

Don't know technical design details, if you send Grover email he will answer any questions.


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## Wodgy

I hate to say it, but this thread appears to be just advertising.

  Quote:


 If you wish to purchase Grover cables or have questions contact him directly by email, no website:
gxxxxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
 ...
 Grover is very small one man shop that loves audio and offers a great product at very reasonable price with cheap upgrades. 
 

The pictures also are taken in the style of promotional advertising.


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## chesebert

I generally don't mind promotion by forum members on products that are genuinely great or great for the money. its only when that premise is not met that I have a problem with. So those Grover better be awesome for the money


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## 909

I really like the UR8s. I've been using them as my primary cable since August 2006. In fact, they replaced my Cardas Neutral Reference. Why? Because the UR8s provided better separation, focus, refinement and detail extraction as well as lowering the floor noise among other sonic improvements. I’ve tried the UR4/5/6 and heard the UR7s and they didn't suit me especially since my ears are sensitive to high frequencies. 

 Yet I couldn’t resist Grover’s special offer so I recently ordered his new “S” cable. Initially it sounded similar, but after some listening time I still lean towards the UR8s. In a nutshell, the S cable tilts to the higher frequency and is a tad more precise whereas the UR8s have more mass, a slightly more prominent lower register and sound a bit organic. 

 Right now, I am sampling another cable on loan from a friend, but plan to give the “S” another go. I always like to reassess my opinions, if possible. So if things change I'll provide an update.


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## Jon L

I assume Grover "S" stands for silver, either newly used or more of it? This would explain the tonal shifts reported, which is almost inevitable when using more silver.

 Also, the speaker cable picture almost looks like the + leg has copper ribbon in it and the - leg has silver ribbon in it? Or is it copper on one side stacked on silver?


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume Grover "S" stands for silver, either newly used or more of it? This would explain the tonal shifts reported, which is almost inevitable when using more silver.

 Also, the speaker cable picture almost looks like the + leg has copper ribbon in it and the - leg has silver ribbon in it? Or is it copper on one side stacked on silver?_

 

As best as I can see each one of the 4 red & black cable connections on amp end has *both* copper and silver ribbons......I thought one of each but could be more than 2 ribbons in each connection as I look closer, a little hard to tell.

 My cables are 8ft pair with 4 bananas on amp end and 4 spades on speaker end.


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Silver..? ouch... 






 Oya it's grover, I'll be all good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 I hope...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the UR8s provided better separation, focus, refinement and detail extraction as well as lowering the floor noise among other sonic improvements._

 

Now; I never did a direct comparison with IC's, so with that in mind. I have to say, I never noticed any changes to noise floors. 
 And I know It seems logical that if the IC's had different resistances; that would affect the floors. But, past Govers showed high resistance with ~ same floor as my super low impendent Analog Research's.
 If an IC is lowing the noise floor... that would be HORRIBLE! translation. With the noise floor; would go all subtle detail and resolution....

 And unfortunately I never will be able to judge noise floors again as my VDA-2 has had is floor COMPLETELY! removed. 
 Which is a good thing...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cuz it's a source...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should recive my S's very shortly, and i'll pop back-in with my impressions. Im sure i'll be the usual “Grover's God" and "Am I gay?"... You know, the usual... 

 nonetheless, I'll be back, and I can't wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wodgy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I hate to say it, but this thread appears to be just advertising.
 The pictures also are taken in the style of promotional advertising._

 

Yea, but I'll support it. This guy deserves his own island inhabited by hot naked chicks.


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## chesebert

I just ordered a pair of RCA. don't know when I can expect them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If this is good I may just try his speaker cable. I wonder how can Grover Speaker Cable possibly improve sound on my BJC 10 gauge Belden stuff... It doesn't make sense really...yes as an EE I am sicken at myself for even wanting to try "better" cable.


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## 909

Subtle details and resolution aren't lost, they are improved compared to my Neutral References. I probably should have said the background is blacker--quieter.


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## imported_Matt_Carter

OO you mean decay..? black between the notes..? ... Anyway don't wana spam up the thread. Call it what you will, it’s just a bit confusing.


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## DarkAngel

The *Grover S* are done cooking and have been installed in main system.

 Looking closely now I see that Grover S interconnects cable body diameter is about 25% smaller than previous UR8, don't have calipers to do exact measurement. Also subjectively S conductors seem a bit stiffer so there is definitely something new under the hood of this model of Grovers.........


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really like the UR8s. I've been using them as my primary cable since August 2006. In fact, they replaced my Cardas Neutral Reference. Why? Because the UR8s provided better separation, focus, refinement and detail extraction as well as lowering the floor noise among other sonic improvements. I’ve tried the UR4/5/6 and heard the UR7s and they didn't suit me especially since my ears are sensitive to high frequencies. 

 Yet I couldn’t resist Grover’s special offer so I recently ordered his new “S” cable. Initially it sounded similar, but after some listening time I still lean towards the UR8s. In a nutshell, the S cable tilts to the higher frequency and is a tad more precise whereas the UR8s have more mass, a slightly more prominent lower register and sound a bit organic._

 

I am getting a similar initial impression of Grover S interconnects, they seem faster more open sounding with greater presence and more clarity of detail compared to UR8.
 Still trying to get a handle on sound complicated by the fact that a new CDP (Rega Saturn) has been inserted in system, will take some time to fully sort things out.

 I do like the more lively sound of Grover S when used with Saturn, gives sound more punch and extended dynamics. If my system was already sounding lean I would prefer the fuller sounding UR8, so as always system synergy is a piece of the puzzle.


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## braillediver

“I hate to say it, but this thread appears to be just advertising.
 The pictures also are taken in the style of promotional advertising.”

 So very true. Some people are shills for manufacturers.

 It would be revealing to fully disclose any involvement with the manufacturer and in an effort for open disclosure it should be mentioned the purchase price of the item reviewed and whether any discount or special treatment was given to the reviewer.

 There are some members who continually and exclusively promote 1 manufacturers product. New members with limited time here might not know the reviewers association with the reviewed manufacturers or the reviewers’ preferences.


 There’s enough money involved in these promotions that regardless of you intentions there needs to be a distancing from the manufacturer.


 Mitch


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## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do like the more lively sound of Grover S when used with Saturn, gives sound more punch and extended dynamics._

 

I can’t say I completely agree with the S having more dynamics or punch, but I’ll do some more listening and comparing. I think that sounds like it’s more attributable to your new source, the Saturn. I find the “S” to be a tab bit leaner, bright and more resolving and reaching into the high frequencies, which touches a sensitivity I have. I am a still a UR8 guy at least at this point. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braillediver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_“I hate to say it, but this thread appears to be just advertising.
 The pictures also are taken in the style of promotional advertising.”_

 

I suppose that could be said about a lot of threads on Head-Fi or where most evenutally end-up. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braillediver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some people are shills for manufacturers._

 

I agree some, but not all. And what about those that…

 get great deals/special pricing, free upgrades or heavily discounted ones, or bartering? MOT loaning gear or stuff they don’t make such as IEMs or headphones… And what about friendships w/ MOT? 

 Should all those never mention anything or give their opinion in anyway? 

 I think it’s better to take things with a grain of salt instead of thinking anyone saying something positive is potentially a shill or something like that.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braillediver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It would be revealing to fully disclose any involvement with the manufacturer and in an effort for open disclosure it should be mentioned the purchase price of the item reviewed and whether any discount or special treatment was given to the reviewer._

 

I know Grover. He has attended both meets I’ve hosted and we’ve met up at two mini-meets. We don’t always see eye to eye and I’ve not been the biggest fan of his interconnects, but the UR8s are now my primary cable. I haven’t taken to the “S” in the same way, yet still think they are a really great cable and excellent value. 

 I won the UR8s in the last So. Cal meet raffle. I am glad I did because I had prejudged my opinion would be the same as with his previous URs, but that wasn’t the case. I purchased the UR4 for $150 and Grover upgraded me twice at no cost because I wasn’t thrilled with the sound and I also bought a custom mini-mini ($50), which to this day is the best sounding mini I’ve heard. Grover offered his new “S” at half price to all his customers and that was a motivating factor in my purchase decision.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braillediver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are some members who continually and exclusively promote 1 manufacturers product._

 

 Other reasons…. Possibly because they own those products and like them. I assume we all have our own preferences as to what we like. I’ve spent serious time, energy, and money comparing cables and components to discover, learn, and find out what I like. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braillediver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New members with limited time here might not know the reviewers association with the reviewed manufacturers or the reviewers’ preferences._

 

What do you suggest we do? This is just a part of life within virtually any product or industry people giving reviews are just giving their “subjective opinions” on the internet or other media outlets. Hopefully, they won’t be naïve and innocent forever. Life experience should make them wiser and more knowledge consumers. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *braillediver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There’s enough money involved in these promotions that regardless of you intentions there needs to be a distancing from the manufacturer._

 

 I think the audio business is either just making it, feast or famine. A lot of products wouldn’t get reviewed under this standard. 

 I think the most important thing around here is only trust your own ears and listen to as much stuff as you can and then make up your own mind. Just because the mass majority likes something doesn't mean you’ll like it or that it will work well in your set-up.


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## sbulack

I've been needing to keep an ear out for household sounds the last few nights, so I've been listening through my powered desktop speakers rather than through my headphone rig. It looks like my household vigil will continue for at least a few more nights, so I'm using my Grover S IC's from my DAC to my desktop speakers' RCA jacks instead of one of my first IC's which I'd rescued from my "wires pile" to use with my (not often used) desktop speakers. With the Grover S IC's instead, these speakers have NOT produced sound this lifelike or engaging, ever. I'd rather be using my headphones, but a good number of the sonic treats that I've only heard from my headphone rig are now coming from my desktop speaker rig, such as transparent bass that just envelops the listener, human voice and acoustic instruments that gives the impression that the source of the music is live and nearby, and airy, spacious, shimmeringly undulating highs. I'm not hearing speakers, I'm hearing music which seems to be coming from the air between me and the speakers. I've not had this listening experience with these desktop speakers using, admittedly, cables which sell new for about half of what a new Grover IC pair sells for.

 Anyway, I'm really glad that I thought to give myself this treat while I'm temporarily banished from my headphones. It's just a wonderful reminder of what the Grovers let through that the other cables simply do not, and what that means to the experience of listening to music using them.


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## DarkAngel

Just for the record I have never met Grover or talked to him other than placing email orders for his cables. I have been using his cables for last 4-5 years.

 I just paid $75 for Grover S ICs (special offer existing customers)
 and $320 for Grover S speaker cables.

 I sometimes post photos of his cables because there is no other way for members to see what they look like, no website or advertising by Grover.

 I talk about them often because in my 20 years of trying many audio cables I think they offer outstanding performance at very reasonable price. I discovered them by reading posts at Head-Fi and am very glad I did!


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just for the record I have never met Grover or talked to him other than placing email orders for his cables. I have been using his cables for last 4-5 years.

 I just paid $75 for Grover S ICs (special offer existing customers)
 and $320 for Grover S speaker cables.

 I sometimes post photos of his cables because there is no other way for members to see what they look like, no website or advertising by Grover.

 I talk about them often because in my 20 years of trying many audio cables I think they offer outstanding performance at very reasonable price. I discovered them by reading posts at Head-Fi and am very glad I did!_

 


 Ya I'll believe that, after hearing grovers all you want to do is tell the world how these ~$100 cables transformed your system.


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## Dork Knight

I'm in the market for a pair of RCA cables and I was wondering if anyone has any pix of an RCA Cable by Grover and any comments you may have on them.

 Cheers.


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## imported_Matt_Carter

First, I have to say the black mesh on copper looks absolutely stunning. It’s like those cool snake skin’s that glow different colors depending on how the light hit’s it.

 Edit:#564

 I should really be ashamed of my self. I've edited this post…? too many times to count, all because my perception of these IC's keep changing day-in day-out. 

 With my ear's previously tuned to the UR8's. I found alot to hate about the S cables. 
 Im going to stop being a ******; posting ignorant initial judgments, and be back in a few days, weeks, months... how ever long it takes to fully understand these IC’s; in and out.

 Hey, we all got to learn sometime. And.. now I know.

 I will say this though, as sad as it is to say, I think these S’s MAY actually send my beloved UR8’s to the closet…. Forever…. MAY…. Will let you know…. 

 How can this possibly be happening…..


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## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I talk about them often because in my 20 years of trying many audio cables I think they offer outstanding performance at very reasonable price. I discovered them by reading posts at Head-Fi and am very glad I did!_

 

I discovered Grover's cables about two years ago on a Head-Fi thread containing some nicely expressed descriptions of their sound (DarkAngel's among them) and I too am really glad I did. I have found those descriptions to align beautifully with my listening experiences with these IC's.


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## Dork Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you wish to purchase Grover cables or have questions contact him directly by email, no website:
groverhuffman@hotmail.com_

 

Does it usual take a while for a response or should your receive something within a couple of days (going on peoples past experiences)?

 Cheers.


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## sbulack

Over the past two years, my experience has been that whenever I've sent Grover an email, he has always responsed later the same day or the next day.


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## Dork Knight

I only emailed him yesterday evening and suspect that he might be a busy man so I was prepared for a wait, but with your comment I hope that I will hear something by the close of play Monday.

 I forgot to ask in my email but would anyone happen to know if Grover accepts PayPal as I'm based in the UK?


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## chesebert

I just paypal him the $$ for the new IC.


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## Dork Knight

Excellent - Thanks for the replies.


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## yo2tup2

there's also a pair of grover S's in the classified forums here


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## 909

selfless plug


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## yo2tup2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_selfless plug 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_


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## imported_Matt_Carter

NM


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## Dork Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yo2tup2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there's also a pair of grover S's in the classified forums here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've not got a clue what to offer as I don't even know how much Grover charges for 1m New ICs with International Shipping.


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## Audio Addict

Does anyone know when Grover switch the techflex? Mine "S" version has his normal techflex.


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## sbulack

OK, back to the sound of the Grover IC's. I'd been using the UR8's in my main rig for about three weeks, while I was loaning my two pair of Grover S cables to a friend for him to try out. Then, a few days ago, I got my Grover S IC's back, and I've been listening to all of my most-listened-to music through the S IC's since then. The main differences I hear in the Grover S cables compared to the UR8's are:

 1) I hear the Grover S as delivering a substantially more spacious soundstage, with more of the information coming through that my ear/brain intuitively interprets as spatial qualities. A good example of this is the track "Alien Lover" on the Luscious Jackson CD, Electric Honey. The last minute of the track is at a substantially lower volume than the rest of the track. On the UR8, I just heard that as a lower volume (fully formed audio at that lower volume, however). On the S cable, I hear that as the voices being more distant, and receding.

 2) I hear the Grover S as delivering a very nicely fuller, richer sound than the UR8. I think that this corresponds to a balance and quality of all regions of the acoustic spectrum which corresponds better to the frequency response of my ear and my sonic tastes. This includes bass, of which I hear PLENTY in the S cable. However, the S cable straddles the more solid, earthy presentation of sound in the UR8 and the more ethereal, diaphanous presentation of sound in (for example) the Bogdan Gold/Silver Spirit IC. Because of the more diaphanous-leaning of the presentation of the S cable (relative to the UR8), the bass and treble are heard more, but felt less, than they are in the UR8 (in my rig and to my ear). The mids, to my ear, seem to lean more to the solid, earthy presentation than the high and low ends.

 My ear, BTW, LOVES the solid/diaphanous profile of the Grover S cable. For my rig and ear, the S cable is exactly MY cup of tea. For folks with other rigs, ears, tastes, I can easily see a preference for the enchanting solidity/presence in the sonic presentation of the UR8. I truly LOVE the enrichment of the diaphanous quality toward the two ends of the acoustic spectrum - giving the highs an exquisite capacity to reveal fine detail and spatial qualities without any hint of over-brightness, and the lows to just envelop and embrace the listener with their rich fullness and warmth, but so clean, tight and transparent that they establish their own presence without impinging on musical voices or sonic events in other spectral regions. A particular benefit to my listening with the S cable is that I have turned the volume down to allow the lower threshholds in my ear to enjoy the rich collection of subtler yet fully-formed sonic events revealed by this cable.

 Grover, you have my "Bravo" on the beautiful and exquisite work of sonic artistry that you have achieved in your latest of a series of fine listening instruments, the Grover S cable.


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## Dork Knight

Nice to see your impressions of the cable sbulack.

 Grover's been in touch and he seems like a friendly and informative person, I've placed an order for some ICs which should be with me in a couple of weeks - Can't wait to give them a try


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Double post...?


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## imported_Matt_Carter

baaagch 
 I'll write this post when I'm not so out of it.


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## chesebert

I just got my Grover S cable. All I need to say is search is over, I found the sound I was looking for. I can only imaging how awesome my system will sound once I replace the VR1 with Harbeth SHL5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since its already very very good sounding.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got my Grover S cable. All I need to say is search is over, I found the sound I was looking for. I can only imaging how awesome my system will sound once I replace the VR1 with Harbeth SHL5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 since its already very very good sounding._

 

*CB*
 For discussion purposes can you tell us what you like about Grover S and how it compares to previous cables you were using......


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## Alwayswantmore

Does Grover have a return policy?


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Boy these S cables are headache to figure out…. 





 AAANNNDDD because of my arrogance, I hastily labeled the cables as crap, which couldn’t be further from that truth. 
 Now!... to give some credit back to me; these cables do exhibit burn-in, and do not sound as intended tell ya put some hours on them. And FYI; before this experience I considered IC burn-in.. not even worth mentioning. 

 I now realize the S’s are basically pure translators. What you hear is nothing but two sources layered atop each other, nearly fully intact. Quick warning though; If your sources have any flaws, these IC’s will let you know EXACTLY what they are.
 With the S’s I now hear a good 60% more information from my DAC, especially when it comes to Reverb…. It’s funny, not only can I hear reverb, I can hear it bounce off each wall. Weird… but cool! You can actually tell room size and position; just listening to it. 
 Not your style? Not to worry; it’s not a trait of these cables, as they have near none to start with. They have a slight variable resistance across the band, that… I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is there to resemble natural latencies. But that’s about all I can source from the cables. Could easily be wrong… been wrong before, and probably am.
 These cables leave me questioning EVERYTHING now, DAM YOU GROVER! Just, don’t take away my huge dong. He’s all I got left.

 Anyway…… I’m getting SO much more from these cables. More than any IC I’ve ever owned. AND I think I have enough IC’s lying around here to feed a family of robots for years….. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sorry

*KEEP PLUG’N IF DISERVED*

 Not only are these cables gorgeous, they have the most logical architecture I've seen or heard. 
 I always knew Grover made great IC’s but I never knew he had this caliber of talent. These IC’s are pure concept developed from ground up, completed as pure intent. 

 Like with Rudi amps, you DO NOT get this level of sound through luck. You gota have the lowest of low level logic and understanding of your craft, with HELL of a good set of ears! 

 Can’t apologize and thank you enough Grover. Hope these cables allow you to buy that island full of hot naked chicks you disserve.. 
 Also not to diss your earlier work, but these are so completely different from the UR’s. It's almost like these are made by a different guy…. They're great and all! But can tell your hearing’s being affected. Good side though, we get more in your face detail and sensitivity. But please, be careful. Take a break, we’ll all be happy with this one for a LONG time to come, go play with some boobies.

 BTW: 
 Once I find a coffin for my UR8’s, I’ll go ahead and schedule the funeral service. If anyone’s interested in attending drop me a PM. 


 RIP UR8’s… you will be missed…..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:

 [size=medium]*Notable mentions*[/size]
*
 -Demands lower level listening. But provides full information at these low levels.
 -Offers Full dynamic range and contrast.
 -Extremely sensitive!
 -Very resolving
 -EXTREME low latency!
 -Low resistance.
 -Super negative feedback, sucking every naissance of sound from source.
 -Has near unlimited 3d image registers.
 -Extremely sensitive to phase shifts.
 -Exhibits extreme burn-in (Do not judge these!)
 -Bright and fatiguing during first 100 hours. Smoothes out SOMEWHAT afterwards...
 -Very low THD
 -Sensational channel separation!
 -Flawless low-end presentation (Best of S's!)
 -Extremely ballanced, truly matched pairs!
 -Inspirational reverb presentation (magical!)
 -Insane stage depth definition! (Say that three times fast!)
 -True life like vocals*


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## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Matt_Carter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 Nope, not swapped send and receives... Can anyone say, EWW GRADO!!?? Talk about inverted stage... MAN these are some bizarre IC's!!_

 

dude..take a break from the "critical" listening. these IC sounded fine. And no inverted stage


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## 909

X2


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## Dork Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alwayswantmore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does Grover have a return policy?_

 

I've been emailing Grover and in the email containing details about the cable he included; Comes with a 60 day trial period.


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_dude..take a break from the "critical" listening. these IC sounded fine. And no inverted stage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Take a break from the "critical" reading and reread what I wrote...


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I assume Grover "S" stands for silver, either newly used or more of it? This would explain the tonal shifts reported, which is almost inevitable when using more silver._

 

I'm pretty sure you're right.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grover S interconnects seem faster more open sounding with greater presence and more clarity of detail compared to UR8.
 Still trying to get a handle on sound complicated by the fact that a new CDP (Rega Saturn) has been inserted in system, will take some time to fully sort things out.

 I do like the more lively sound of Grover S when used with Saturn, gives sound more punch and extended dynamics. If my system was already sounding lean I would prefer the fuller sounding UR8, so as always system synergy is a piece of the puzzle._

 

I have more extended listening time and really depending on your system and sound preference you can go either way with UR8 or S cables as your preference. Both sets cooked for one week on FryKleaner to fully break in as much as possible, there is really just slightly different sound but to exaggerate the differences:

*Grover S*
 -greater presence and contrast
 -greater detail clarity and treble extension
 -faster more lively sounding 
 -increased 3D perception due to greater resolution of fine detail 

*Grover UR8*
 -less treble energy, fuller tone
 -more relaxed sound
 -more forgiving of average sounding CDs

 In general the UR8 is a more universally safe choice and still sounds great to me, the S is a higher resolution cable which may work best for your system especially if it is warm/neutral sounding and/or if you listen mostly to better recorded Cds.
 A headphone analogy using Senn 650:
 Grover S = Zu Mobius
 Grover UR8 = Cardas

 If listened only to my classical CDs I would use the Grover S, but since I listen to many average/below average rock CDs I may keep UR8 in main system for now. Since Grover's cables are so cheap I will definitely keep both in my collection. 

 The *Grover S speaker cables* actually are impressing me more than the ICs, they seem to be tonally closer to UR8 series while offering even higher resolution, need more time with these.


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## DarkAngel

*Other ICs I have owned and sold over the years:*
 AZ Silver Reference & Matrix Reference
 VD Reference
 Cardas Cross
 Silver Audio Hyacinth & Silver Bullet
 HT Pro Silway II & Truthlink
 Analysis Plus Solo Crystal & Silver Oval
 Bogdan Silver Spirit & Gold/Silver Spirit


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## Dork Knight

I ordered a pair of Grover S two weeks ago, the wait is killing me - I can't wait to get my hands on them but they also have to ship to the UK, no doubt Customs will charge me a small fortune which is not what I would need right now (my car engine is in bits and needs to be repaired)


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have more extended listening time and really depending on your system and sound preference you can go either way with UR8 or S cables as your preference. Both sets cooked for one week on FryKleaner to fully break in as much as possible, there is really just slightly different sound but to exaggerate the differences:

 In general the UR8 is a more universally safe choice and still sounds great to me, the S is a higher resolution cable which may work best for your system especially if it is warm/neutral sounding and/or if you listen mostly to better recorded Cds.

 If listened only to my classical CDs I would use the Grover S, but since I listen to many average/below average rock CDs I may keep UR8 in main system for now. Since Grover's cables are so cheap I will definitely keep both in my collection. _

 

Actually IMO there's quite a substantial difference between the UR's and S’s.

 But your right when saying the S's demand a higher end system. 
 If the S's came out… lets say, 6 months ago when my K701's were still new and plugged into a GS-1 with stock power cable…. my ears would still be stained from the bloody endeavor. 
 But now that my system's leaps and bounds better, I can truly grasp the class difference between the two IC’s. When before, I would have just thrown the S's away the next day.

 It’s all a bit FUBAR actually. 
 With the S’s costing so little, it doesn’t appeal to its proper demographic. It’s a cable meant for a 20000+ system but priced for the pilgrims and there <$1000 systems. 
 Also with the S’s being such a high resolution IC; it would be extremely unforgiving for such low end system. 
 But; if you got some good caliber gear, and an open mind, this cable's for you, and won’t cost you a $1000 aswell.


----------



## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Matt_Carter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually IMO there's quite a substantial difference between the UR's and S’s._

 

Unless Grover has already done some minor tweaking between the first S batch and the ones as of current he is making and shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And what's considered substantial is very subjective.


----------



## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless Grover has already done some minor tweaking between the first S batch and the ones as of current he is making and shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And what's considered substantial is very subjective._

 

Only thing subjective is your authority to even comment on the matter.

 Anyway you may not hear a difference, but this is how I hear it.


*[size=medium]S[/size]*




*[size=medium]UR8[/size]*


----------



## rlmacklin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Unless Grover has already done some minor tweaking between the first S batch and the ones as of current he is making and shipping. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And what's considered substantial is very subjective._

 

************************************************
 I will confirm that Grover has done some tweaking after the first S batch...
 I ordered/received 3 pairs of 1-meter Grover S ICs w/RCAs early on and later Grover e-mailed that he was sending me 3 pairs later configuration Grover S and to keep the ones I liked best. The later Grover S were received Thursday evening and so are still burning in, but my initial impressions of Grover's cables have seemed to remain stable through/after burn-in phase. 
 So far I am hearing a bit fuller bass, and somewhat higher resolution (both "cleaner" and clearer"/greater detail and lower noise floor), more ambient cues and greater depth imaging/soundstage.


----------



## digihead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rlmacklin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_************************************************
 I will confirm that Grover has done some tweaking after the first S batch...
 I ordered/received 3 pairs of 1-meter Grover S ICs w/RCAs early on and later Grover e-mailed that he was sending me 3 pairs later configuration Grover S and to keep the ones I liked best. The later Grover S were received Thursday evening and so are still burning in, but my initial impressions of Grover's cables have seemed to remain stable through/after burn-in phase. 
 So far I am hearing a bit fuller bass, and somewhat higher resolution (both "cleaner" and clearer"/greater detail and lower noise floor), more ambient cues and greater depth imaging/soundstage._

 

Honestly, that is almost laughable...how long was it between this 'update'? So do the current S owners have to pay to upgrade their cable to the 'new' S? When will the T or S2 be released...Grover cables are a great value for the money...if you don't take his upgrade ladder into effect...AND if you don't mind listening to the cable that you currently have, knowing that there has been a recently released version that is 'the best he's ever created...'


----------



## sbulack

How one consumes the Grover cables is a lot like "Fight Club":
 "You choose your own level of involvement." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 (Now, if only I had an audio alter-ego who looked like Brad Pitt, instead of like a paunchy, balding, pasty-faced computer geek 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).

 These early S cables are just the "Cat's Pajamas" as far as my ears are concerned. That there is now a new cable that is a bit more Feline having a finer thread count in the Pajamas, at this point, takes none of the "Purrrrrr" out of mine. I wish everyone with the better cable "Good Listening" - and I encourage all with the new "S" upgrade to share their deeper insights into the music, gained from the added richness of their listening experience, with the rest of us over in the Music Forum.


----------



## grover

Hi every one, it sure is interesting to read about everyones impressions of my latest cables. As you all know I am always looking to improve my own listening experience with my cables. I feel the new S cable is large step in this direction. My own perception is that the S cable is very clear and open more so than the UR8, and takes me that much closer to the recorded event. Providing for me a very real experience. It's true I tweaked the original S cable, the tweaked cable still carries the orginials characteristics. The changes are minor. Below are some E mails I have recieved, reproduced to show the relative value my cable provides. I do not find the S cable to be less forgiving than the 8 but more so, with less distortion in the midrange. 



 From : Carl< @hotmail.com> 
 Sent : Saturday, January 27, 2007 1:14 PM 
 To : groverhuffman@hotmail.com 
 Subject : RE: Grover Cable 

 Hi! 

 Well, what can I say, your S cables are amazing! Much better that the Xindak FA-gold i've been using so far. Specially soundstagewise. And they are not even burnt in. So the next question is obviously: do you make speaker cables out of the same material? If so i'm interested in buying by the foot unterminated if possible. 

 Best regards 
 Carl 


 From : Joe < @earthlink.net> 
 Sent : Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:46 PM 
 To : "'grover huffman'" <groverhuffman@hotmail.com> 
 Subject : RE: Heard about your cable on Headfi now I want to try one 

 Your S cable bested my Harmonic Technology's Pro-Silway III I had. I plan to order your speaker
 cable next month (already reached my gadget fund this month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 

 Great stuff!!

 Thanks!

 Joe


----------



## 909

Well Grover read my comments here and left me a voicemail indicating he wanted to send me his tweak in the new “S” cable. I got them about a week ago. I’ve been just listening to them since they arrived without wanting to switch back to the UR8s, which is a really good sign. I’ve done some brief A/B with the original S as well.

 First off, these new “S” cables look slightly different than the original S. They are still all black instead of the old-school dark blue. The heat shrink wrap is now glossy black on both with a small red band over the glossy black on one at either end. The really good, I am not experiencing any sensitive in the higher register with the new like I did with the original. So in my book, the tweaked “S” is an improvement over the original S incarnation. Also they got back that balance and mass like the UR8s, which is another thing that really pleases my ear. 

 So I am going to ship back the original S cable tomorrow. And do some more comparing between my UR8s and the new S cable. I need more time, but I am thinking they offer slightly more focus, clarity, and separation at least those are my initial impressions. Otherwise at this point they seem similar to the UR8s. So I am a very happy with these new S cables. Thanks, Grover.


----------



## mlhm5

How can anyone pay $100 for a pair of interconnects when you can buy a pair of these for $11?






Krystal Kable 2 Channel 1M Twisted Pair RCA Cable

 or these for $6.20 using 701105 at checkout.






3 ' 100 % shielded pure copper braiding with teflon insulated Gold Connectors


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlhm5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How can anyone pay $100 for a pair of interconnects when you can buy a pair of these for $11?






Krystal Kable 2 Channel 1M Twisted Pair RCA Cable

 or these for $6.20 using 701105 at checkout.






3 ' 100 % shielded pure copper braiding with teflon insulated Gold Connectors_

 

Because you can't judge a book by its cover? 
 oh and almost forgot *this is a DBT-FREE zone!!! Please stop posting so this thread won't get locked! *


----------



## mlhm5

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Because you can't judge a book by its cover? 
 oh and almost forgot *this is a DBT-FREE zone!!! Please stop posting so this thread won't get locked! *_

 

What! Are you opposed to forum members learning of alternatives in the cable arena?

 I wish people would post more suggestions/alternative sources not less, where you can buy cables constructed with quality components priced for the budget minded among us.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mlhm5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What! Are you opposed to forum members learning of alternatives in the cable arena?

 I wish people would post more suggestions/alternative sources not less, where you can buy cables constructed with quality components priced for the budget minded among us._

 

*ML*
 I have tried a few of the inexpensive belden/OEM cables and they are better than the free cables that come with gear but I find the Grovers sound much better at a very reasonable price.......I suspect most people here who own Grovers originally had much cheaper cables at one time then moved on to other designs, a natural part of the cable learning done by spending time listening to many things in your own system. Grovers have actually saved me a lot of money since I was able to sell many much more expensive cables I owned and buy other gear.

 If you want to know more about budget cables why not start a new thread *best cables under $30* and I am sure you will get many suggestions and get valuable info to other members.


----------



## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ *this is a DBT-FREE zone!!!*_

 

what does DBT stand for?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Grovers have actually saved me a lot of money since I was able to sell many much more expensive cables I owned and buy other gear._

 

ditto!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*ML*
 If you want to know more about budget cables... start a new thread *best cables under $30* ... you will get many suggestions and get valuable info to other members._

 

no offense, but X2


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what does DBT stand for?_

 

DBT = Double Blind Test.
 In the past, whenever anyone tried to describe what they heard with cables, the thread quickly got bogged down in whether the person posting their impressions or review had performed Double Blind Testing (where neither the one listening nor the one switching the cables knows which is which) to ensure an unbiased test, listen and evaluation. To avoid this ubiquitous bogging down of so many threads, this Forum was dubbed as a DBT-Free Zone.

 chesebert:
 I don't get what bringing up other cables has to do with invoking DBT.

 mlhm5:
 This IS a thread on a specific cable. Other cables brought up here (to be applicable to the subject of this thread) would best be those that the poster has heard (in addition to the cable under discussion) so as to give an informed comparison. Equal time for other cables in general is best given in other threads as appropriate to the subject of the thread, such as the new thread suggestion by DarkAngel.


----------



## pabbi1

x2


----------



## chesebert

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DBT = Double Blind Test.
 In the past, whenever anyone tried to describe what they heard with cables, the thread quickly got bogged down in whether the person posting their impressions or review had performed Double Blind Testing (where neither the one listening nor the one switching the cables knows which is which) to ensure an unbiased test, listen and evaluation. To avoid this ubiquitous bogging down of so many threads, this Forum was dubbed as a DBT-Free Zone.

 chesebert:
 I don't get what bringing up other cables has to do with invoking DBT.

 l._

 

mlmh5 had a history of turning perfectly fine cable discussion into DBT flame war, insisting the $5 patch cable sounds the same as the best.


----------



## DarkAngel

Back to Grover cables if you don't mind.......

 I just sold my *AZ Hologram II* speaker cables ($1050 retail) since the Grover S speaker cables gave up nothing to these highly rated cables and just sound a little better overall all things considered. Now that I have entire system wired wired with Grover S I am liking the Grover S ICs more and have not used the UR8 for sometime now.........I am now a believer that S cable does slightly surpass the UR8 without any qualifiers.

*909*
 have you been *converted* yet to Grover S?

 BTW, again saved money with Grover since the Hologram IIs sold quickly at very good price for me.


----------



## denjo

Hi Guys
 I am new to this forum, usually hanging around at Audiocircle. I have a McCormack Headphone amplifier (Rev A) which I guess qualifies me to hang around here for a bit tho' I can hardly proclaim to be headphonus supremas!

 I was interested in this thread for a while now, standing at a distance to learn vicariously of members' feedback of Grover's cables, finally buying the U8 before upgrading to his latest S iteration (its still S right?)

 After burning in the S cables for a couple of weeks, I decided to do some serious listening and swapped my Neotech Silver Ref XLR (equivalent to Acoustic Zen Silver Ref II) with Grover's S (RCA via Cardas connectors on power amplifier) and don't feel any desire to switch my system off! How do they sound? Its very difficult for me to describe my impressions but I shall try - the highs are silvery, airy, spacious, shimmering and seem to have this lilt, this delicate touch that I find hard to describe. The bass sounds deep and authoritative. Let me post some further thoughts once the "wow" factor has passed me by. If I continue to be impressed after some few weeks, I think the conclusion is the S cables are something really S-pecial.

 Best Regards
 Dennis


----------



## DarkAngel

Dennis welcome to the Grover discussion.....keep us posted.

 I asked Grover to make me a Grover S headphone extension cable, order placed yesterday will keep you people posted on results.......I think this is first one he has made and he took a few days to find the connectors he wanted to use.


----------



## denjo

Thanks DarkAngel! I am sure the Grover S headphone extension cable is going to sound very holographic. Do share your thoughts too!

 Best regards
 Dennis


----------



## Black Stuart

These comments seem to be all CD related. Don't any of you have a top end vinyl system?

 I don't doubt for a moment the opinions formed by using CDPs but I've always found that vinyl and digital needs are very different , simply because the signal output from vinyl is far less than from digital.

 I may have to e-mail Grover to see if he has any ideas about producing a purely vinyl I/C.

 I also have to agree with many posters that if you don't believe that cables make a difference or that paying more is silly - why are you on this thread and what is more, this thread is specifically about Grover Huffman's cables - that's it.


----------



## grover

I myself am a huge vinyl fan. When everything is considered there is more info on vinyl than digital. As a consequence I developed a revolutionary phono IC. It uses a unique shield that damages the sound least. As Black Stuart said the Phono IC is substantially different than a line level IC. The object is to extract the most info, keeping the Grover sound signature, of open and real. A time warp sound wise to the original event.


----------



## Black Stuart

Oh Grover,
 you've started something now - the CDP crowd will be after you now - I totally agree with you.

 I hav'nt had a chance to get up above the snow line yet, how about you? Grover and I both love the high mountains - spiritual re-generation and brain cleansing.

 I hav'nt got back to you about a pair of I/Cs Grover because I've been experimenting, digital I/Cs I've sorted for myself - it's hard to believe the difference that the right kind of I/C can make and none more so with digital - there is no need to have to suffer that 'digital harshness' at all.

 I'm not surprised that Grover mentioned sheilding in relation to analogue, nor that he uses silver plated phonos. As Grover says, sheilding is THE thing with analogue. 

 There are good scientific reasons to use precisely 1 metre cables for digital but this is not true for vinyl. I'm just about to order stone shelves ( a very special and beautiful kind of stone) for a TT rack. When I've got it up and running I will get back to you Grover but I won't need anything like a 1 metre set of cables.

 Just two quick questions - do you really think sheilding is nec. for analogue I/Cs - I find any kind of sheilding smears the signal and definately smaller gauge wire is better for analogue. For phono outs from a TT, sheilding is definately nec.

 Do you think your cables would benefit from using say Furutech plugs, since these do away with any soldering - yes I know they would dramatically increase the price of your products but many may well be prepared to pay the extra - just a thought to play with - an either or situation.


----------



## grover

Hey Stuart, Vinyl is special, CD is great, and both are wonderful mediums. I enjoy both. Vinyl is mystical, a huge wow factor. Of course all means of reproduction must be addressed to get the most satisfying experience. Cabling being IMO the hardest to address. I use to feel shielding to be harmful in line level IC's, but have found the right shielding focus's the electromagnetic field in these 1+ volt cables. Not to mention the noise benefits. Gauge is a very mysterious part of cables; it's amazing the differences between even the smallest changes of gauge. Regarding phono cables from TT to phono amp. In these .5 millivolt cables shielding is everything. To find a shield that doesn't overwhelm the signal voltage is very complex. I worked forever to design a phono cable that takes me to the recording event. Very pleased with my phono cable now. Haven’t got to the high mountains yet, do have a killer trip planed for spring. I did try the Furutech plugs, actually have a bunch, but didn't find them as clean as the silver RCA's.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi Grover,
 it's precisely these analogue cables that frustrate me. I tried using unsheilded phono out's from my Kenwood KD990 - no way, you simply have to use sheilding and like you say, the sheilding can overwhelm the signal. 

 As Grover quite rightly says - the smallest change in wire gauge can have dramatic effects. I'm glad you use silver and not gold plating.

 So there's no confusion - do you have two analogue cables: (1) phono outs and (2) RCA to RCA I/Cs? I can well imagine that you use a different configuration for each.

 In the Spring I shall be in the Masif Central in France, land hunting - a good excuse for exploring the Grande Randonees but shhhh don't tell my lady, she thinks it will be all business.

 Stuart


----------



## grover

So there's no confusion - do you have two analogue cables: (1) phono outs and (2) RCA to RCA I/Cs? I can well imagine that you use a different configuration for each.

 Stuart[/QUOTE]

 Yes what I call the phono cable (RCA or DIN) that runs from turn table to phono amp. And the regular line level cable running from CD, MP3, Digital Analogue Converter, Tape, Turner, Preamp to Amps, etc. are two completely different cables and cannot be interchanged.


----------



## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*909*
 have you been *converted* yet to Grover S?_

 

Well since I've received the tweaked S I've not swapped it out for the UR8s. I still need to compare the two...


----------



## CRESCENDOPOWER

There’s really no sense in reiterating what everyone else has said in previous posts, and threads on Head-Fi, but I will say that the Grover S outclasses every other interconnect I have tried on Woo Audio 2 with the HD 580s, and I can guarantee the word “hype” should never be used in the same sentence as Grover.


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CRESCENDOPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... I will say that the Grover S outclasses every other interconnect I have tried on Woo Audio 2 with the HD 580s ..._

 

Just to give the rest of us a sense of what you find the Grover S to outclass, what other interconnects have you tried on the Woo Audio 2 with HD580s?


----------



## CRESCENDOPOWER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sbulack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to give the rest of us a sense of what you find the Grover S to outclass, what other interconnects have you tried on the Woo Audio 2 with HD580s?_

 

The Grover S is cleaner, faster, and more refined than the:

 Cardas Golden Reference
 Cardas Golden Cross
 Cardas Neutral Reference
 Kimber Silver Streak
 PS Audio Xstream Statement
 Zu Audio Varial
 Harmonic Technology Magic Link One
 Audio Geek Nitrogens
 Analysis plus Silver Oval


----------



## sbulack

Wow!!! That's quite an interconnectography you've got there.


----------



## denjo

MattCarter

 How long would you say it takes for Grover's S to break in? I have found that they do take awhile to settle to sound their best. I use a SB3 with a ripped Ultra-burner track to play continuously throughout the night and most of the day (power amplifier off). The high frequency still sounds a little tizzy (is that part of the process of burn-in?) But, everytime I get back to the music the S cables seem to sound better, more relaxed.

 Best regards
 Dennis


----------



## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denjo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_MattCarter

 How long would you say it takes for Grover's S to break in? I have found that they do take awhile to settle to sound their best. I use a SB3 with a ripped Ultra-burner track to play continuously throughout the night and most of the day (power amplifier off). The high frequency still sounds a little tizzy (is that part of the process of burn-in?) But, everytime I get back to the music the S cables seem to sound better, more relaxed.

 Best regards
 Dennis_

 

I hear ya on the tizzy fo rizzy. All I can tell you is I witnessed it diminish slightly over ~300 hours. But grover's S's sound like they've got a good 3000 hours as they have half the tizzies on the hizzies FOOB. 

 Talk to grover, I'm *SURE* he has an IC frier...


----------



## denjo

The S cables take ages to burn-in but your patience will be rewarded with a very revealing cable that is excellent sonically! I have been continuously playing the ripped "burn-in" track via my SB3 for hundreds of hours and the cables are sounding very nice! I think this process has also helped my system generally!

 So, bottom line - Be Patient!


----------



## HumanMedia

So how long is the full burn-in of the Grover S?
 And the burn in gets rid of tizzy highs?

 And after the burn-in and honeymoon with the S series:
 *Are people still positive about the cables?
 *Does anyone feel negatively about the cables?
 *Would the sound signature/design be the same between unbalanced RCA version and a balanced XLR version?


----------



## sbulack

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HumanMedia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how long is the full burn-in of the Grover S?
 And after the burn-in and honeymoon with the S series:
 *Are people still positive about the cables?_

 

For me, the full burn-in period was about the same as it is for most IC's - about 150-200 hours. If I ever had tizzy highs, they were so short-lived I didn't really take notice of them. I'm still VERY positive about the S cables.


----------



## DarkAngel

Picture of current Grover S interconnects:

Grover S

 Still awaiting the Grover S headphone extension cable..........


----------



## yo2tup2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HumanMedia* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So how long is the full burn-in of the Grover S?
 And the burn in gets rid of tizzy highs?

 And after the burn-in and honeymoon with the S series:
 *Are people still positive about the cables?
 *Does anyone feel negatively about the cables?
 *Would the sound signature/design be the same between unbalanced RCA version and a balanced XLR version?_

 

I perferred Electra Cables over the grover S's. I have some VD Master IC's coming my way...should be fun


----------



## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DarkAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Picture of current Grover S interconnects:

Grover S

 Still awaiting the Grover S headphone extension cable.........._

 

Curious as to where we are in the current S evolution
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My do look similar, but pics can be deceiving... 

 I believe I got the original S and then exchanged those for the second incarnation, which I like a great deal more.


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CRESCENDOPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Grover S is cleaner, faster, and more refined than the:

 Cardas Golden Reference
 Cardas Golden Cross
 Cardas Neutral Reference
 Kimber Silver Streak
 PS Audio Xstream Statement
 Zu Audio Varial
 Harmonic Technology Magic Link One
 Audio Geek Nitrogens
 Analysis plus Silver Oval_

 

Sorry but these claims are false.


----------



## CRESCENDOPOWER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry but these claims are false._

 


 LOL, not in my system. Which one of those manufactures do you work for?


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CRESCENDOPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, not in my system._

 

Exactly, so why do you state it as fact? Why not say "TO MY EARS (emphasis on "my"), and on MY system, the grover S cables sounds better than all of these cables"


----------



## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry but these claims are false._

 

 One's subjective opinion isn't necessarily true or false... It's just a "matter of opinion" which is not capable of being "proven" either way. 

 I sold my Cardas Neutral References because the Grover UR8s were superior in my rig.


----------



## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One's subjective opinion isn't necessarily true or false... It's just a "matter of opinion" which is not capable of being "proven" either way. 

 I sold my Cardas Neutral References because the Grover UR8s were superior in my rig._

 

Yes, exactly! One's opinion can be just that, but the problem is you guys are throwing around words that state these opinions as facts. This would be equivalent to me saying "Grover cables sound good on monday, tuesday, and friday, any other day and it will sound worse than stuff you can buy at radioshack" (of course this is a fake statement though, i do not want anyone quoting me on this haha).


----------



## CRESCENDOPOWER

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Exactly, so why do you state it as fact? Why not say "TO MY EARS (emphasis on "my"), and on MY system, the grover S cables sounds better than all of these cables"_

 

You are correct, I should of said, "In my system, and to my ears." And, I do believe that the Grover S is not the answer for every system.


----------



## 909

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, exactly! One's opinion can be just that, but the problem is you guys are throwing around words that state these opinions as facts. This would be equivalent to me saying "Grover cables sound good on monday, tuesday, and friday, any other day and it will sound worse than stuff you can buy at radioshack" (of course this is a fake statement though, i do not want anyone quoting me on this haha)._

 

Hair splitting.... 

 You aren't giving people enough due! I believe most have the same ability as you to process and filter information. If someone doesn't realize some of these unqualified words/statements (posts, threads, reviews, whatever) are "opinions" someone always having to preface it with my ear, rig, etc isn't going to make a difference (IMO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## Absolute0

I have the UR8's and am perfectly happy with them. But the Grover S is such a tease... What's the upgrade policy on these nowadays?


----------



## duff138

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *909* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Curious as to where we are in the current S evolution
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My do look similar, but pics can be deceiving... 

 I believe I got the original S and then exchanged those for the second incarnation, which I like a great deal more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 There's a new "S"?


----------



## 909

read the thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lazy..

 But there are without question at least two "S" version.


----------



## stressnot

It's hard to keep up, but, yes, there are indeed at least 2 versions of the 'S' IC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After getting 3 of these in early December, I had Grover give them his latest tweak last month (this was out of drivenness, not dissatisfaction). I've had these for two and a half weeks now, and love them!


----------



## chesebert

any one having experience with Grover spkr cable? 
 Any comparisons done?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any one having experience with Grover spkr cable? 
 Any comparisons done?_

 

Did you see 1st post with photo?

 They are excellent like the ICs, perhaps even stronger vs competition on a relative scale, sold my $1100 AZ Hologram II cables since they offered nothing the Grover S couldn't do at 1/3 the price......I am 100% Grover S now (all cables all systems)

 Why not ask Grover to make you balanced Grover S to replace that generic Mogami XLR for computer system?


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## stressnot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chesebert* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any one having experience with Grover spkr cable? 
 Any comparisons done?_

 

I'm using a quad pair of his S speaker cables, which I have biwired (replacing the SR/UR combination of his that I used to use), and it sounds great!


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## rlmacklin

I have now used Grover S bi-wire speaker cables for one month on Polk SDA-SRS2 speakers (with upgraded RD-0194 silk dome tweeters and with upgraded crossovers using tighter spec Solen caps and Mills resistors), replacing older Grover UR single run speaker cables. The Grover S bi-wires provide greater presence/detail and better depth in soundstage than the Grover UR did on same speakers. I am running a custom SDA speaker interconnect cable made by Grover from his UR wire.

 The Grover UR speaker cables are moved to surround channels duty, replacing and outperforming Element Cable Twisted Pair speaker cable on Polk Fxi-5s. 
 Still using Grover SR speaker cable on center channel Polk CSi-5.

 All ICs are Grover S.

 All power cords are Black Sand Violets.

 Source: Denon DVD-3910 

 Front left/right preamp: Modwright SWL 9.0 SE with Bendix 6900 tubes and tube rectified power supply (stock Sovtek 5AR4 until Mullard 5AR4 arrives).

 Surround preamp: PS Audio PCA-2

 Center channel preamp: Sunfire Symphonic Reference

 Front left/right amps: Odyssey Mono Extreme SE (w/ Klaus's "special boards")

 Surround and center amp: Odyssey HT-3 with capacitance upgrade.


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## Puppysmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rlmacklin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have now used Grover S bi-wire speaker cables for one month on Polk SDA-SRS2 speakers (with upgraded RD-0194 silk dome tweeters and with upgraded crossovers using tighter spec Solen caps and Mills resistors), replacing older Grover UR single run speaker cables. The Grover S bi-wires provide greater presence/detail and better depth in soundstage than the Grover UR did on same speakers. I am running a custom SDA speaker interconnect cable made by Grover from his UR wire.

 The Grover UR speaker cables are moved to surround channels duty, replacing and outperforming Element Cable Twisted Pair speaker cable on Polk Fxi-5s. 
 Still using Grover SR speaker cable on center channel Polk CSi-5.

 All ICs are Grover S.

 All power cords are Black Sand Violets.

 Source: Denon DVD-3910 

 Front left/right preamp: Modwright SWL 9.0 SE with Bendix 6900 tubes and tube rectified power supply (stock Sovtek 5AR4 until Mullard 5AR4 arrives).

 Surround preamp: PS Audio PCA-2

 Center channel preamp: Sunfire Symphonic Reference

 Front left/right amps: Odyssey Mono Extreme SE (w/ Klaus's "special boards")

 Surround and center amp: Odyssey HT-3 with capacitance upgrade._

 

Nice!!


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## HumanMedia

Just received my first pair of Grovers cables yesterday (2m XLR Grover S from preamp to poweramps) and have only listened for 6 hours, so its only first impressions of them without burn in.

 The first thing I noticed is that they changed dramatically over these first 6 hours, which no other cables I have had have done, and they seem to be settling down quite quickly.

 First impressions are that they have a very nice silky midrange. I dont think Ive heard anything exactly like it. Initially the dynamics just werent there and the bass and upper treble were extremely withdrawn. Also it seems like I have to turn the amp up to get the same volume levels as other cables. Over the 6 hours the mids started getting more punchy and the bass and upper treble started to ease back in, although they are not all there yet.

 So things really havent stabilised yet but I am getting a feel for where they are going and I like what I am hearing. I am anxious to get back home and continue listening. For now I want to repeat that what I hear so far in the midrange is very special.


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## gotchaforce

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CRESCENDOPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Grover S is cleaner, faster, and more refined than the:

 Cardas Golden Reference_

 

Cardas has spent tens of thousands dollars (if not more) researching their golden reference cables. I dont get how they could spend so much money on research and not have assembled a cable that beats grover's cable thats relatively simple in design. 

 Can someone explain to me how grover's cable can beat a cable with way more research behind it?


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cardas has spent tens of thousands dollars (if not more) researching their golden reference cables. I dont get how they could spend so much money on research and not have assembled a cable that beats grover's cable thats relatively simple in design. 

 Can someone explain to me how grover's cable can beat a cable with way more research behind it?_

 

But that doesn't mean other people won't prefer Cardas GR to Grover S. Personal taste and synergy are the overriding factors when it comes to audio gear, including cables. 

 And the amount of "research" doesn't necessarily correlate with final sound quality or personal preference.


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## grover

I've spent years researching all aspects of electronic, and cable design. The result is a new patent pending design (a seemingly never-ending process). I never stop wanting better sound, particularly for my own system. Of course synergy is important, however my goal is make cables that enhance any system, providing crystal clear, and open sound. The sonic differences comparing different cables are stunning. Even the differences between connectors are amazing. IMO (I guess it's necessary to put this)


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## Mastergill

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gotchaforce* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone explain to me how grover's cable can beat a cable with way more research behind it?_

 

It all depends in which context the cable is used. Cardas GR is made to be used with the very best audio gears money can buy. And in fact it is a bargain compared to other much more expensive and famous audio cables. 

 It's not to trash other opinions or gears, but i can't help to scratch my head when i see this kind of cables used with components that cost as much as the cables...Overkill i say.


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## imported_Matt_Carter

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *grover* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've spent years researching all aspects of electronic, and cable design. The result is a new patent pending design (a seemingly never-ending process). I never stop wanting better sound, particularly for my own system. Of course synergy is important, however my goal is make cables that enhance any system, providing crystal clear, and open sound. The sonic differences comparing different cables are stunning. Even the differences between connectors are amazing. IMO (I guess it's necessary to put this)_


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## HumanMedia

Ive had people tell me the Grover S needs 20-40 hours burn-in, others say 150-200 hours and then others, 350+ hours.

 My progress so far. Big changes in the first 6 hours then it stabilized with distorted forced highs and barely noticeable bass. There was some nice midrange in there but it was hard to enjoy with the treble and bass problems. This remained for another 80 hours. I started feeling the Grover S was a mistake and then at around the 85 hour point the highs started to tame and the bass started coming back. It seems to have stabilized again with edginess on some high notes and could use some bass detail, but overall its sounding quite good. 

 Im hoping that these last issues will even out with another 80 hours, but its not there yet, but I can hear its potential.


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## denjo

HumanMedia
 Hang in there! I was in your shoes and wondered if I made the right decision to invest in the Grover S. I can assure you that the cable will settle in but as I mentioned in my earlier post, it takes a loooong time for the cables to finally stabilise and sound its best! You will be rewarded with one of the most transparent cables around!

 Best regards
 Dennis


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## djbnh

FYI - Group buy on Grover ICs @ AudioNervosa; ends April 20th.


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