# NEW Audio-gd NFB-16 class A ACSS portable DAC/Amp



## tim3320070

Their first foray into portable. I have been waiting a while for this:
   
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB16/NFB16EN.htm


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## mosshorn

Wow, I wasn't impressed with the NFB-12, but I might have to pick this up. Sexy little mini stack!


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## sunninho

It looks good on paper.  How do you order this?


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





sunninho said:


> It looks good on paper.  How do you order this?


 
  Send an email asking for a quote- audio-gd@126.com


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## tim3320070

Looking more at the spec's, this seems to have it all for a portable- up to 24/192 via USB, class A, no op-amps, ACSS with changeable filters. Is there any portable that has this feature set?
   
  It is big though- it's based on the DI chassis which is roughly 4 times the E17 in size. I'll see how it attaches (velcro) to my laptop (which is also huge at 17").


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## mukulymn

I read on site that its a dual wm8741, but from pic, it seems only one wm8741 chip is used.


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## tim3320070

Just one chip, I doubt there is power enough for 2


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## mukulymn

http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB16/NFB16EN_Tech.htm
   
  This says :
   
  [size=x-small]The NFB-16 applies the newest  *high-end dual* WM8741 and  USB asynchronous transmit chip TE8802 which can support up to 24Bit/192KHz input (AES and Coaxial inputs support up to 192KHz [/size]
   
   
  Am I missing something here.


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## tim3320070

It's a typo- look at the image, there is one


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## sunninho

So the portable unit, by itself, is $148 (promo pricing) and the optional PSU, which would stay at home, is another $75.  Although not super portable (as in thin), this may be the best bang for the buck in a transportable DAC/Amp.


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## tim3320070

It's all about how it sounds (I'll know next week) but I don't know of any portable that has more in the way of hardware- someone point me to one if there is.


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





sunninho said:


> So the portable unit, by itself, is $148 (promo pricing) and the optional PSU, which would stay at home, is another $75.  Although not super portable (as in thin), this may be the best bang for the buck in a transportable DAC/Amp.


 
  The PSU could also be used for the Digital Interface when the NFB-16 is away.


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## sunninho

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> The PSU could also be used for the Digital Interface when the NFB-16 is away.


 
   
  I'm not sure what you mean by the Digital Interface, sorry....


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





sunninho said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by the Digital Interface, sorry....


 
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DIv2/DIv2EN.htm


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## sunninho

So, it's a power supply and a digital processor that can relay the bits to a DAC?


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## tim3320070

No- read up on this, there is a huge thread in "Source", it's a USB to coax converter. The PSU is a separate power supply that powers this and the NFB-16.


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## Greg121986

I am about to pull the trigger on this with external PSU and the upgraded clock chip. I have been using my NFB-12 for just over a year and I love it! I am in need of something that will do 24/192 for work, and more importantly for my bedroom system both using USB input. First question, is the TCXO clock upgrade useful? My desired sound signature is very detailed and very transparent. If this clock will do even the slightest bit to help with that, it is a no brainer for me.
   
  How does it work using the 1/4" to RCA adapter for DAC out? Is this a true Line-Out signal with D/A conversion being handled by the NFB-16 and the external amplifier accepting the analog signal? I have never seen this done before. I am using my old Yamaha receiver for amplification at the moment, but I do intend to get a decent amp at some point so I would like to have an acceptable analog output available. If this is an acceptable method of transfer, my order will be placed!
  
   
  Quote: 





> [size=x-small]For the DAC output to extra amp, a 6.5 to RCA adapter is necessary.[/size]


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## tim3320070

.


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## Greg121986

I emailed Kingwa and he confirmed that when using the 1/4" to RCA output for DAC out, it is not a fixed line level signal. The output of this signal when powered by USB 5V will be a max 1.2V. When powered by the external power supply this will reach a maximum of 5V. So it is variable output and can be controlled by the volume knob.
   
  I was hoping for a fixed line level output.


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## MattTCG

This is a very compelling product!! Can't wait to get some impressions of how it actually sounds.


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## MattTCG

Does anyone know the dimension of the chasis?


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## steve2151

From the specs page, it seems to be [size=small]W 163 X L 120 X H 42 mm. [/size]


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## Mad Max

Not portable enough.


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





mad max said:


> Not portable enough.


 
  Not for your pocket but for a laptop case or backpack, why not? I'll see if the sound quality is worth the size though. I have owned the iBasso D10, E17 and E10 to compare.


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## MattTCG

I'm not really worried so much about the portability. I just want to know how it sounds. Anyone got it yet?


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## Mad Max

So this is the Sparrow's successor then?
   
  I wonder when Kingwa will make a true portable amp/DAC, not just a compact desktop unit like this and the discontinued Sparrow.


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## bowei006

I saw it a few days ago but ultimately still ordered the 12.1 as I don't need a portable device.
   
  I will admit I bought the NFB 12.1 half blind. Without reading the NFB thread or even knowing what the switches will change or modify the sound to be.


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## MattTCG

Anyone got this yet, willing to post some impressions?


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## tim3320070

Getting in a few days, will give impressions


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## sunninho

Yes please, looking forward to it!


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## bowei006

I got the NFB 12.1 instead of this. I didn't need a "portable" device.
   
  @tim below me.
   
   


tim3320070 said:


> Yes, as you stated 5 or 6 posts ago. What is the point of this post? Why are you here if you have no interest in the NFB-16? This isn't Twitter....


 
  *facepalm* I forgot I did say that. Sorry. I forgot about this. I'll take my leave now. I didn't add a new post....as I didn't want to add another pointless post.Good day.


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I got the NFB 12.1 instead of this. I didn't need a "portable" device.


 
  Yes, as you stated 5 or 6 posts ago. What is the point of this post? Why are you here if you have no interest in the NFB-16? This isn't Twitter....


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## MattTCG

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Yes, as you stated 5 or 6 posts ago. What is the point of this post? Why are you here if you have no interest in the NFB-16? This isn't Twitter....


 
   
  Well, I think because he expressed interest in this product when he was doing his original search for an amp. I have no issue with the post.


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## darren700

im tempted to get this, just to see how it compares to my O2 and ODAC combo. Considering the NFB-16 is half the cost (without PSU) it would be interesting to see how they compaired.


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## LosNir

This thing is interesting.. I'm wondering, if it has the TE8802 and a coax out, isn't it a DI v2 with a DAC and headphone amplifier, for really cheap price? :eek:


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## MattTCG

Quote: 





losnir said:


> This thing is interesting.. I'm wondering, if it has the TE8802 and a coax out, isn't it a DI v2 with a DAC and headphone amplifier, for really cheap price?


 
   
  I was thinking the exact same thing!! If the reviews look good, it will be hard for me to pass on this one.


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## tim3320070

Getting mine this week and will give my thoughts with comparisons to the E17 and my other AGD gear.


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## MattTCG

That would be an interesting comparison for me. Looks like there will be quite a few people getting this product this coming week.


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## Currawong

This captured my interest since I've been interested in a good computer or DAP-based transportable rig, so I now have one. Sounds good out of the box off USB power. I'll compare it to an Apogee Duet and the components of my "portable" rig in a couple of weeks.


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## MattTCG

Congrats on the new stuff!! Please list more detailed impressions when you have the chance.
   
   
  thanks...


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## LosNir

currawong said:


> This captured my interest since I've been interested in a good computer or DAP-based transportable rig, so I now have one. Sounds good out of the box off USB power. I'll compare it to an Apogee Duet and the components of my "portable" rig in a couple of weeks.




Upgrading the "Starbux Rig"?


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## Currawong

Quote: 





losnir said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup, that's right! I'm listening to with with my Magnums at the moment, using bowls taped to HD-414 pads, so I get more space, but also ends up giving me more treble. The NFB-16 seemed to lose its initial harshness (which I find most new Audio-gd products have) in one day of being left switched on. It has the typical non-feedback sound, which is that darker, black-background-like sound. With most of the music I listen to it is quite relaxing, the music sounding a bit distant with a narrower perceived soundstage. 
   
  Doing what I call the Bolero! test, playing fast, dramatic classical music, its limitations become apparent and fast passages become a blur and various instruments lost in the sound, which isn't a surprise.
   
  I reckon that this plus a pair of Grados would be a good, basic dorm/office rig.


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## tim3320070

Can you do some comparisons to other portables you have? I have been bugging Kingwa for over a year about a portable figuring it could be the best sounding portable potentially.


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## tim3320070

I've had mine for a couple of days now- the sound is what I hoped for- typical AGD, deep and wide sound with great clarity and positioning of vocals and instruments. I am running my DT700/600 which I worried would not work well but I am about 50% volume on USB power and it's full and dynamic. The E17 is not bad but this is clearly steps above that unit IMO.  My Fuze, forget it.
  The bad, Kingwa is having a problem with the 1/8" input which is not good quality (1/4" jack is fine). He is working on a fix for current users and I'm sure he'll have an improved version in the next batch. Also, it's quite big but not impossibly so as I have it velcro'd to the back of my laptop well enough. 
  In comparison to my NFB10SE, bass is tighter, soundstage is wider and ultimate fidelity is greater but it's not far behind.


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## Currawong

The crappy input jack may be partly my fault. I told him if he was going to make anything portable, it would need something that would work with an iPod LOD. That, and he has crammed a 3.5mm headphone out on it as well. It needs to be in a smaller case though. I reckon if he designed it with two circuit boards sandwiched together into a case half the size it might actually work as a portable, if the right flat LiON battery could be crammed in.


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## Hawaiiancerveza

Audio GD is pumping out some amps.


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## tim3320070

New battery version is out: http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB16/NFB16EN.htm
   
  This should improve things further.


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## moodyrn

Now, it's just became very interesting. Would like to read more impressions on how it sounds though.


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## tim3320070

Mine has some noise from USB power and why the battery is being used now I'm guessing (I have not tested it using a separate power supply as I only use it as a portable). Kingwa told me he has no noise with his Mac laptop. The sound quality is better than any portable I have ever used even with the noise. I may sell my NFB10SE and use this for my bedroom rig it's that good.
  He needs to get a better 1/8" jack though, I think he fixed that.


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## tim3320070

I got the new battery powered NFB-16 today. Huge improvement in background noise- as in, there is no noise- totally black background like all their other gear. Great realism, depth and air to well recorded music, on par with my NFB10SE.
   
  If you can tolerate the larger size and weight, I can't imagine better portable music (especially for under $200). Also, using USB power, noise is considerably less though still audible especially with sensitive IEM's (hard to hear with my DT770-600 until near full volume).
   
  I am looking to go USB from my Samsung Note phone at some point (hoping to have this work)- this rig would be awesome for traveling.


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## moodyrn

Hmm, since it's battery powered I wonder if this would work with an ipad via cck.


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## dw1narso

Tim,
   
  if I'm not wrong, I recall you used to have Audinst MX-1? If you still had it, how are they compared?


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## Grev

^ I would like to know too.  I had the MX1 but gave it to my girlfriend, it sounded great and wondering if this compares.


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## tim3320070

I never had the MX1, just the E17, E10 and D10- none touch the NFB16.


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## HeatFan12

Tim,
   
  I have been back and forth with Kingwa for 2 weeks about the NFB-16, so just want to confirm.
   
  I mainly want to use it with DAPs (ipod LOD etc.) with the usb input as a plus for laptop.  Battery charges via wall wart only?  Basically, charge it up and you can use it solely on battery power for DAPs and usb?  Says about 5 hours for usb use and 20 or so for line in on battey charge?
   
  Basically, I wanted something like the FUN(A) which I own but with a smaller foot print.  I use the FUN with powered speakers, headphones, line-in etc. and Kingwa advised that since the NFB-16 has no pre-out I can still use it in that fashion via an adapter to the headphone out.  Thoughts?  Not really a necessity but would be nice if I can use speakers as well.
   
  Last thing, since you spoke about the DI.  I have the DI (B).  Can you use the supplied wall wart for the NFB-16 in the DI? 
   
  Just trying to maximize this product...lol


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## tim3320070

Yes, battery alone works well and is more powerful than USB as a bonus. I t looks like it charges only via the power supply (not usb). I have not tested the DI with this power supply but the spec's are the same on the agd website for DI and NFB16. I don't imagine the line out of the Fun vs the head out of the 16 would be noticeably different.


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## HeatFan12

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Yes, battery alone works well and is more powerful than USB as a bonus. I t looks like it charges only via the power supply (not usb). I have not tested the DI with this power supply but the spec's are the same on the agd website for DI and NFB16. I don't imagine the line out of the Fun vs the head out of the 16 would be noticeably different.


 
   
   
  Thanks very much for the info Tim.  Will be ordering shortly.
   
  Cheers!!!


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## dw1narso

tim3320070 said:


> I never had the MX1, just the E17, E10 and D10- none touch the NFB16.




I see, but that reference on e17, e10 and d10 is enough to know


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## HeatFan12

Order placed Tim.  Can't wait to play with this little bad boy.
   
  In reference to the headout being used as a pre-out that you mentioned, would you think using the 1/8" vs the 1/4" make a difference?  I have a TS adapter I can throw on it but using a mini to mini would be much easier to my A5s vs. RCA to my Rokits.
   
  Again, just trying to maximixe this $200 box...lol...
   
  Thanks again


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## tim3320070

I don't see how the lesser diameter would matter but others around here might wax poetic on that. Maybe if you were feeding a 500 watt/ channel amp or something.


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## HeatFan12

Lol Tim, I know what you mean.  I was just curious since in my communications with him about that, he kept saying an adapter for the 1/4", whereas a mini to mini would be much easier and suffice.  I thought maybe he had the output of the 1/4" differently.  Well, I'll find out in a while and let you know how it goes.
   
  Thanks again!!!


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## dw1narso

Quote: 





dw1narso said:


> I see, but that reference on e17, e10 and d10 is enough to know


 
   
  Tim,
   
  could you elaborate the DAC part of e17 when connected to NFB16 compared to built-in DAC on NFB16? thanks


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## CJG888

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Hmm, since it's battery powered I wonder if this would work with an ipad via cck.


 
   
  I would also be very interested in finding this out! Has anyone tried it?


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





dw1narso said:


> Tim,
> 
> could you elaborate the DAC part of e17 when connected to NFB16 compared to built-in DAC on NFB16? thanks


 
  E17 is gone already, sorry. The NFB16 has what the others were missing, air and 3D sound that is not too far off from my main rig. I can only guess this is due to the power goodies and upsampling of the TCXO. I need to say again that this is the size of the Digital Interface (same case).


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## dw1narso

wow... are you seriously saying that this thing not too far from your Master amp + Ref 8 source?


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## tim3320070

well, call it approaching, but you get that wow feeling with good recordings that I did not with the E17- I am very impressed with it. Hopefully they get the Tenor drivers squared away soon, I do has some nagging (not fatal) issues with it like getting static after pausing and replaying music.
   
  Also, I use this as DAC/Amp and not stand-alone amp- I connected my Blu-Ray players analog outs to the 16 and thought it sounded poor, nothing like going through the USB using the 16's DAC. I don't know why.


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## HeatFan12

Tim, those slight nagging issues just with USB and not line-in?


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## tim3320070

Line in is not what I was expecting- let me try more testing with it though. Yes, the new Tenor USB still has a few issues, nothing fatal but "nagging" (think work-around)- they have a new driver coming out soon that I am hopeful for.


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## HeatFan12

Thanks Tim.  Oh boy.  Please tell me line-in has exceeded your expectations, because I have some big plans for line-in...lol

Thanks again...Much appreciated...


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## tim3320070

I tested the line in with 3 different sources. It seems it is made for a low level line in like an iPod. My CD player (Pioneer CD changer) and Panasonic BD player were too much for the line in and it distorted the sound. The iPod however sounds great, full and deep but I get a tiny bit of noise at high volume, silent parts.
  Using USB from the laptop via the battery is very, very clean and silent sounding.


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## CJG888

I have just received a reply from Kingwa. Apparently, it is unlikely to work with an iPad because it needs a proprietary driver which is not available for the iPad at present.


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## HeatFan12

Thanks for the info Tim.


CJ, would he mean using the CCK?  Line out should not be affected.  I'll try it out when it arrives via line out.  It's on the way.   
Thanks


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## Grev

I just got this today!  But not showing up on my macbook in the sound settings, what do?


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## Currawong

I have a weird issue with mine that it doesn't always show up. Try flipping the front switch between "DAC" and "HP" and switching it on and off. After a couple of tries it shows up. The same problem sometimes happens with my DI.


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## Grev

Is it plug and play or do I need to do more for OSX?


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## dw1narso

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> I tested the line in with 3 different sources. It seems it is made for a low level line in like an iPod. My CD player (Pioneer CD changer) and Panasonic BD player were too much for the line in and it distorted the sound. The iPod however sounds great, full and deep but I get a tiny bit of noise at high volume, silent parts.
> Using USB from the laptop via the battery is very, very clean and silent sounding.


 

 hi tim, was the Line-In set in low gain?
   
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB16/NFB16EN_Use.htm


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## tim3320070

Quote: 





dw1narso said:


> hi tim, was the Line-In set in low gain?
> 
> http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB16/NFB16EN_Use.htm


 
  Yes, it's set to low gain for line in.


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## HeatFan12

Mine arrived today, but was on my way out.  I'll plug in that bad boy later tonight Tim.

Good times ahead hopefully.  Lol

What is the default, shipped gain configuration?


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## Grev

I'm pretty sure I got a faulty unit, plug into USB and it will light up but not show up in the sound settings of my Macbook pro, and also when I asked if it's the new 'EN' version with the battery in it, they said yes but then when it didn't work so I opened the case, there's no battery in it.
   
  Definitely have to send it back.


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## tim3320070

Sorry to hear that, they will take care of it for you I'm sure


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## HeatFan12

Quote: 





grev said:


> I'm pretty sure I got a faulty unit, plug into USB and it will light up but not show up in the sound settings of my Macbook pro, and also when I asked if it's the new 'EN' version with the battery in it, they said yes but then when it didn't work so I opened the case, there's no battery in it.
> 
> Definitely have to send it back.


 
   
  Wow, sorry to hear about that Grev.  Kingwa and co. will hook you up, I'm sure.
   
   
  Have not had much time today and have not even tried it with a laptop yet, but the line-in is sounding good.  Tim, my initial questions about using it as a pre-out were answered.  No probs whatsoever from the headout.
   
  Quick pic while I put some miles on it...iTouch-->NFB-16-->A5s...


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## Currawong

Since we have to conserve electricity here, it has been a good opportunity to try out the NFB-16 and Audioquest Dragonfly. Both are great-sounding and seem to shoot way above their price points. The NFB-16 is a little bit smoother-sounding but it is otherwise difficult to tell them apart without a variety of headphones.


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## tim3320070

That's interesting and kind of disappointing- I would hope the 16 would wipe the table with that little guy but I am also a little shocked that that little guy is $250- looks like a pen drive! I traveled with the 16 this past week and it is pushing the limit of size and weight for travel I must say. I also must say that it sounds great and I actually sold my NFB10SE as a result.


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## Grev

Got my RMA, but still can't work it on my Macbook, drivers doesn't get recognised...  Emailed for drivers, lets see if that will solve.  Or does anybody here have a solution?


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## HeatFan12

Even after you downloaded the drivers from the site, it still does not work?


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## Grev

Yes, downloaded from the audio-gd website, also emailed kingwa and got the same drivers, installed drivers and restarted, doesn't work...  I'll see if the different cables make a difference.


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## Currawong

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> That's interesting and kind of disappointing- I would hope the 16 would wipe the table with that little guy but I am also a little shocked that that little guy is $250- looks like a pen drive! I traveled with the 16 this past week and it is pushing the limit of size and weight for travel I must say. I also must say that it sounds great and I actually sold my NFB10SE as a result.


 
   
  I haven't received the battery version. Overall I enjoy listening more with the Emotivas using the NFB-16. If Kingwa could get the size down It'd be great transportable kit.  Something that it does seem to sound nicer than to me is the Apogee Duet 2. I used to own a Duet so thought it might be possible for the Duet 2 to replace my ULN-2. Alas the Duet 2 simply makes the music sound flat and lifeless.
   
  Quote: 





grev said:


> Got my RMA, but still can't work it on my Macbook, drivers doesn't get recognised...  Emailed for drivers, lets see if that will solve.  Or does anybody here have a solution?


 
   
  Make sure your DAC/HP switch isn't reversed. Mine was. In HP mode it doesn't show up. Sometimes I have to switch between them a couple of times and/or switch off altogether for 15 seconds and on again for it to show up.


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## Grev

Thanks, somehow when I used the cable supplied, it worked, and comparing with the USB cable that I got with my HUD-mini, the fitting is more strict with the audio-gd USB cable, maybe that affected it.
   
  So...
  - audio-gd USB cable is tight fitting
  - audinst (HUD-mini) USB cable is looser fitting


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## Grev

Also now that my amp is working, what is the default filter?  And which of the filter setting is the best?


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## HeatFan12

Great to hear you got her going Grev.  I have no idea what the default filters are, I have not opened her up yet.  On the default gain with line-in as Tim posted earlier it is low-gain.
   
  Finally found her a place in the bedroom...lol
   
  Good times!!!


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## EndersShadow

Anyone have any thoughts about how this unit compares to both the older Compass as well as the NFB-5.  I am looking for a good USB DAC combo to pair with a mini-itx computer build solely for music playback.  So I dont need something super portable with batteries but I like the price of the 16


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## tim3320070

I would get the NFB-12.1 for the extra $23


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## EndersShadow

tim3320070 said:


> I would get the NFB-12.1 for the extra $23




Due to the fact it has fixed and variable pre outs I take it? Anything else different between the units?


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## tim3320070

Dual chips, better power supply, more output....


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## EndersShadow

What about the NFB-5 v the NFB-16?


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## tim3320070

Another level improvement I am guessing- another level better power supply, etc. I have never owned the NFB5, only the NFB12, NFB16 and the NFB10SE (among other higher end AGD gear)


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## EndersShadow

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Another level improvement I am guessing- another level better power supply, etc. I have never owned the NFB5, only the NFB12, NFB16 and the NFB10SE (among other higher end AGD gear)


 

 So obviously this is your thought NFB-16 < NFB-12 < NFB-5


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## tim3320070

Yes but not dramatic is my guess- if you can afford it, I feel the NFB10SE is very good if going balanced


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## Grev

Is the NFB-16 considered dark?  Or is that the house-sound of Audio-gd?  I tried it with the Hifiman HE-400 and Beyer DT250, both sounded great out of it, but when I tried the HD650, it sounded slow and a bit too dark.


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## nigeljames

Quote: 





grev said:


> Is the NFB-16 considered dark?  Or is that the house-sound of Audio-gd?  I tried it with the Hifiman HE-400 and Beyer DT250, both sounded great out of it, but when I tried the HD650, it sounded slow and a bit too dark.


 
   
  No its the HD650 that are slow and dark. All the Audio-gd gear I have have been pretty neutral.
   
  However maybe the NFB-16 is not good at driving high impedance phones.


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## Grev

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> No its the HD650 that are slow and dark. All the Audio-gd gear I have have been pretty neutral.
> 
> However maybe the NFB-16 is not good at driving high impedance phones.


 
  But I've tried the LCD2 on it too and it wasn't as slow nor dark, but I do think it was lacking power driving the high demand headphones.


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## nigeljames

Quote: 





grev said:


> But I've tried the LCD2 on it too and it wasn't as slow nor dark, but I do think it was lacking power driving the high demand headphones.


 
   
  The LCD's are not slow and are not as dark as the HD650's. The LCD's are also lowish impedance.
   
  None of your other phones are more than 80 ohms if I am correct so it still might be an impedance issue and the NFB-16 does not do so well with high impedance (the HD650's are 300 ohm impedance) phones.
   
  If the HD650's are not being driven properly then their flaws (slow, dark) will be emphasized.
   
  What is the power output at 300 ohms of the NFB-16. It does not say on the Audio-gd website although it does say its designed to be [size=x-small]'neutral and dynamic[/size]'


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## Grev

My DT250 are at 250ohms and I'm listening to them right now with my Macbook Pro and they sound great.  The HD650 sounded a bit dark with the Triad L3 too, better when I switched to the Just Audio AHA-120 or the Stepdance.


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## nigeljames

OK, I did a quick search for the DT250 and the first couple I found were 80 ohms so I asumed they all were.
   
  The hD650's are slow and dark sounding phones the only way to get away from that is to buy an amp that is totally the opposite and hope they cancel each other out. But then that amp won't be any good for any other phones.
   
  I have looked at your profile and you have better phones than the HD650's. Are they your preferred phone for portable use?


----------



## Currawong

Non-negative feedback circuits have a reputation for sounding "dark", but then, arguably, large amounts of negative feedback in a circuit can give it a reputation for sounding "bright". The latter, to me, sound glare-y and irritating, but some people seem to like it. 
   
  Basically with Audio-gd gear, the more you pay, the better the power supply and better the amp's performance gets. The NFB-16 I have here (non-battery-powered) doesn't have a strong amp when using it with USB power only, as the soundstage seems to fall apart with complex music, but given I listen to a lot of jazz and often use it with a pair of active speakers and the power supply from the Digital Interface, it sounds lovely to me and that issue doesn't come up.
   
  For HD650s you need a C2 amp or NFB-10 or better or get one or another unit to use as a DAC and an OTL tube amp and a bunch of tubes to play with to tune the sound to your liking.


----------



## EndersShadow

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> Yes but not dramatic is my guess- if you can afford it, I feel the NFB10SE is very good if going balanced


 
   
  Not going balanced.  Ended up going for the NFB-5.  I am pumped to get this hi-fi playback computer built, just doing a bit more research on which motherboard to get and I will be GOLDEN.


----------



## Grev

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Non-negative feedback circuits have a reputation for sounding "dark", but then, arguably, large amounts of negative feedback in a circuit can give it a reputation for sounding "bright". The latter, to me, sound glare-y and irritating, but some people seem to like it.
> 
> Basically with Audio-gd gear, the more you pay, the better the power supply and better the amp's performance gets. The NFB-16 I have here (non-battery-powered) doesn't have a strong amp when using it with USB power only, as the soundstage seems to fall apart with complex music, but given I listen to a lot of jazz and often use it with a pair of active speakers and the power supply from the Digital Interface, it sounds lovely to me and that issue doesn't come up.
> 
> For HD650s you need a C2 amp or NFB-10 or better or get one or another unit to use as a DAC and an OTL tube amp and a bunch of tubes to play with to tune the sound to your liking.


 
  So it's not dark?  I'm not too familiar with the technical stuff but I will take your word for it since you know more than me, so does the Audio-gd house-sound sound neutral to you?


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





grev said:


> So it's not dark?  I'm not too familiar with the technical stuff but I will take your word for it since you know more than me, so does the Audio-gd house-sound sound neutral to you?


 
   
  As a general rule, Kingwa prefers a "neutral" sound. If you see a description on his site mentioning "musical" it refers to the subtle differences between the effect of conventional circuits on the music compared to the ACSS ones. There is a funny story about this actually. A number of people suggested to Kingwa that he make a tube amp, as they are popular with some people. He replied that he can easily make a solid-state amp that sounds like a tube amp if people want.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





currawong said:


> As a general rule, Kingwa prefers a "neutral" sound. If you see a description on his site mentioning "musical" it refers to the subtle differences between the effect of conventional circuits on the music compared to the ACSS ones. There is a funny story about this actually. A number of people suggested to Kingwa that he make a tube amp, as they are popular with some people. He replied that he can easily make a solid-state amp that sounds like a tube amp if people want.


 
   
  Speaking of people suggesting things, he should probably get on making a Stat amp too...


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Asked that already. Can't get a good supply of the components required.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Asked that already. Can't get a good supply of the components required.


 
   
  that makes sense though, since the DIY community has so much trouble doing the same. Unless you want to go the tube route which makes it alot easier, hence why i think im gonna be choosing the Megatron over the KGSSHV...anywho, back to NFB-16 talk


----------



## Currawong

More impressions. I'm awaiting the battery-powered version, but the USB-powered version I find sounds sweet with the Fit Ear TO GO! 334 IEMs, which have the unfortunately typical strong treble peak that seems to be popular nowadays. The downside is that they are incredibly sensitive and even if I use the NFB-16 from the Vaunix hub, I can hear a steady tone, if not computer noises which I get when it is connected directly to my MacBook Pro. 
   
  I've emailed Kingwa some suggestions including about IEMs. If he can get the NFB-16 into a box about half the size, including the battery without compromising anything it'd be great. Parts such as the volume control can be replaced with smaller parts and the RCA inputs are redundant if it is designed as a portable.


----------



## Grev

Quote: 





currawong said:


> As a general rule, Kingwa prefers a "neutral" sound. If you see a description on his site mentioning "musical" it refers to the subtle differences between the effect of conventional circuits on the music compared to the ACSS ones. There is a funny story about this actually. A number of people suggested to Kingwa that he make a tube amp, as they are popular with some people. He replied that he can easily make a solid-state amp that sounds like a tube amp if people want.


 
  So comparing these to the Audinsts that I have, this sounds darker, so the Audinsts are suffering from negative feedback?  I also really like the Reference 7.1 and the one with the amp, the 10.1, they would have the same house-sound too?
   
  I do like the NFB-16's sound, just that it didn't drive the planar dynamics nearly as well as the Triad Audio L3.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





grev said:


> So comparing these to the Audinsts that I have, this sounds darker, so the Audinsts are suffering from negative feedback?  I also really like the Reference 7.1 and the one with the amp, the 10.1, they would have the same house-sound too?
> 
> I do like the NFB-16's sound, just that it didn't drive the planar dynamics nearly as well as the Triad Audio L3.


 
   
  Well, that is a little different price tag...


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> No its the HD650 that are slow and dark. All the Audio-gd gear I have have been pretty neutral.
> 
> However maybe the NFB-16 is not good at driving high impedance phones.


 

 haha no, no they arent …
   
  the 650 driven properly (not actually that hard, but there is a basic level of voltage swing needed) is neither dark, nor as different to 600 as people tend to repeat around here


----------



## Grev

I have tried the NFB-16 with my LCD-2 and the HE-400, it can go to loud levels without being distorted on the HE-400 but it doesn't have the power for the LCD-2.
   
  So is it voltage that matters or the wattage?


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





qusp said:


> haha no, no they arent …
> 
> the 650 driven properly (not actually that hard, but there is a basic level of voltage swing needed) is neither dark, nor as different to 600 as people tend to repeat around here


 
   
  Sorry disagree. The inherent character of the HD650's is dark and slow. That's a fact.
   
  Of course you can change the basic character depending on source/amp quality and character.
   
  Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the HD800's:  NO
  Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the Beyer T1's: NO
  Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the HE6's: NO
  Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the LCD-2's: NO
  Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than any Ultrasone,grado,AKG etc etc: NO
   
  I rest my case. Oh and yes I have owned the HD650 and most of the phones/makes listed


----------



## Lorspeaker

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Sorry disagree. The inherent character of the HD650's is dark and slow. That's a fact.
> 
> Of course you can change the basic character depending on source/amp quality and character.
> 
> ...


 
*x2*


----------



## Grev

Going off topic but still with the HD650 here, with the RX3, they're not dark nor slow.  So he does have a point there, but yes, still darker than the headphones you've mentioned above.


----------



## qusp

way to completely miss the point of a pretty simple short, clearly worded post.. congrats thats quite an achievement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  actually no, i'm guessing you havent actually spent much time with any of the cans you mention, perhaps just read some reviews, or at a meet and you definitely havent spent much time with both HD600 and HD650 at the same time
   
  did I compare to any of these? NO
   
*Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the HD800's:  NO*
   
  no I wouldnt, thank god, the hd800 are bright and with some rigs/source material harsh and unlistenable with a completely unnatural soundstage
   
*Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the Beyer T1's: NO*
   
  yes, I would, I didnt like the t1 at all, very pretty but thats about all
   
   
*Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the HE6's: NO*
   
  and the point is?
   
   
*Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than the LCD-2's: NO*
   
  faster no, but I would call hd600 pretty darn similar as far as tonality and the major difference between 600 and 650 is in text on these forums
   
   
*Would you say the HD650's are faster and less dark than any Ultrasone,grado,AKG etc etc: NO*
   
  yes yes yes, faster, more natural and less dark than every single ultrasone ive ever heard including ed9, ed8, ed10, which are all tuned pretty bloody dark (with a bit of added tizz), completely meh and despite the exterior, 100% plastic. less bright than every bright AKG i've ever heard? absolutely most AKG are pretty clinical and lacking proper bass presence. the only AKG i've heard that didnt are the 240 with a proper amp
   
  do the hd6XX have slightly more bass than completely neutral? yes they do, but so do more than half of the headphones you mention above, however driven properly extension is not bad at all and mids are all there in proper measure not recessed in the slightest, so to call them dark is false, slightly rolled off in the very upper registers? yes, but its pretty minor


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





qusp said:


> way to completely miss the point of a pretty simple short, clearly worded post.. congrats thats quite an achievement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Missed the point... ha don't think so.
   
  No I haven't spent ANY time with the HD600 & HD650's at the same time BUT that is Irrelevant because that is not the point because I never referred to any comparison to the HD600's. So I think it is YOU who as missed the point.
   
  Haven't spent much time with the cans mentioned?  Seriously!
  I own the T1's,LCD2.2's, and HE6. I have owened the K701 and Untrasone ALO-780's AND I have owned the HD650's twice. So please check my sig before resorting to silly misguided comments.
   
  I have not heard the HD800's and your opinion of those mirror what I expect to to hear if I did but really do you consider the HD650's faster and brighter (less dark) than the T1's. If so then you must be in a *very* small minority. Whether you like the T1's or not is not the point of this discussion.
   
  And really are you saying that you consider the HD650's (the topic of this discussion not the HD600, which I have not heard) brighter and faster than K701 or Ultrasone which have a reputation for being bright and fast.
  Is this a joke? is it April fools already?
   
  And no IMO the HD650's do not have more bass than strictly neutral. Upper bass maybe but less midbass and very little very deep bass. So overall NO


----------



## qusp

you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension, underlined for easier understanding
   
   
  Quote: 





> *less* bright than every bright AKG i've ever heard? absolutely most AKG are pretty clinical and lacking proper bass presence. the only AKG i've heard that didnt are the 240 with a proper amp


 
   
  as for the rest, youre right, I must be mistaken, dont know how I could be so wrong


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





qusp said:


> you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension, underlined for easier understanding
> 
> 
> 
> as for the rest, youre right, I must be mistaken, dont know how I could be so wrong


 
   
  Finally you get it.


----------



## qusp

Quote: 





nigeljames said:


> Finally you get it.


 

 no, just bored


----------



## Ghaunty22

I have a few Qs for Nfb 16 owners, I use the sandisk-sansar-clip mp3 player. And can you use high gain on this amp? Some music I have need high gain to come alive. How do you change low/high? I cant see the switch.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





ghaunty22 said:


> I have a few Qs for Nfb 16 owners, I use the sandisk-sansar-clip mp3 player. And can you use high gain on this amp? Some music I have need high gain to come alive. How do you change low/high? I cant see the switch.


 
  Hi! I cant see a reason why not? I use high gain with everything (like my smartphone) Cheers! Luke


----------



## tim3320070

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Hi! I cant see a reason why not? I use high gain with everything (like my smartphone) Cheers! Luke


 
  Because the line on the NFB-16 can get overloaded and sound distorted- but that's with CD players, not portable devices. Go to the AGD website to see how to change gain- it's right there.


----------



## Grev

And no one has got a more layman's view on the digital filters?  I've asked before.


----------



## yuotver

Hello everyone I'm new to the forum and in general in headphone's world so i need all your help.
   
  I'd like to buy this amp dac for my denon ah d2000 (alternative may be audio-gd 15.1 but output impedance is 2 ohm and i prefer 1), I have one question: is the power cable only for charging the batteries?
  What do you think about its performance? I'll use with win 7 like dac and ampli because my pc has only integrated soun card.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





yuotver said:


> Hello everyone I'm new to the forum and in general in headphone's world so i need all your help.
> 
> I'd like to buy this amp dac for my denon ah d2000 (alternative may be audio-gd 15.1 but output impedance is 2 ohm and i prefer 1), I have one question: is the power cable only for charging the batteries?
> What do you think about its performance? I'll use with win 7 like dac and ampli because my pc has only integrated soun card.


 
  Hi yuotver! Welcome to Head-fi! 
  In "DC-in" mode yes, plugging the power cable in in this mode would result in destruction of the battery itself. Whereas in "USB in" mode, you can freely plug the power cord in as in this mode the battery circuit is not affected.
  The performance is very balanced overall. It is a little softer on bass in terms of "boom", but it is a great full-bodied, greatly textured bass overall. Good soundstage and instrument separation.
  Sounds very good through PC! (noticeably better than with a portable or "I" device)
  The ohm impedance doesnt seem to be an issue. My ultrasones are rated at 40 ohms and no issues so far. Only in USB mode when nothing is playing there is a little hissing sound but unnoticeable when listening.
  I own the NFB-16 and it is very simillar to NFB 15/12.1 down to a few differences:
  The NFB-16 is the only one that runs on battery (very good battery life - 20+ hours!)
  It is also the only one which has a 3.5mm jack and a line-in (do note please that this line is a no-go! It is practically unusable, almost up to the point "broken" SO cross it out)
  It is also the only one which does not have switches for filter/oversampling settings so you will have to open it up every time you wanna change something (I recomend removing all the filters, or experimenting a little after a while, the factory filter setting isnt the best sounding)
  Has only one WM8741 chip, the others have two (dont know if it makes a difference or not)
  Overall A great product. though if you dont plan on carrying it around the NFB 12,1 would be a better value (has a digital-in, which the NFB-16 doesnt have unfortunately)
  A great value overall with all 3 models. NFB-16 - for traveling or if you are too lazy to plug them in (or just carry it around). Dont know whats the difference btween 12.1 and 15 tho, seems same to me. Perhaps the 12,1 is the best bang for the buck, but really all 3 of them are more or less a steal :-D A great entry level DAC/amps these are!
  Great with Ultrasones, I havent owned any Denons so far so I cant comment on that.
  Perhaps someone else might be better informed in this regard.
  Hope this helps!
  Feel free to PM me directly if you have any additional questions! 
  Sincerely, Luke


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





grev said:


> My DT250 are at 250ohms and I'm listening to them right now with my Macbook Pro and they sound great.  The HD650 sounded a bit dark with the Triad L3 too, better when I switched to the Just Audio AHA-120 or the Stepdance.


 
    
  How would it perform with the DT880s (2005 version, *250 Ohm*) and a laptop via USB?
   
  By the way, I am finding this thread very interesting.


----------



## Grev

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> How would it perform with the DT880s (2005 version, *250 Ohm*) and a laptop via USB?
> 
> By the way, I am finding this thread very interesting.


 

 I don't have one but will assume they sound ok.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





jakejack_2008 said:


> How would it perform with the DT880s (2005 version, *250 Ohm*) and a laptop via USB?
> 
> By the way, I am finding this thread very interesting.


 
   
   
  It spanks them.  It also spanks my DT770s (250ohm), HD580s & HD650s and a buddy brought over his HE-500s and they were spanked as well.  On lo-gain volume knob at 1 o'clock and hi-gain volume knob at 11 o'clock.
   
  It looked sort of like this:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But instead of beating a dead horse it was spanking a wild pony...lol..
   
  Cheers!!!


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> It spanks them.  It also spanks my DT770s (250ohm), HD580s & HD650s and a buddy brought over his HE-500s and they were spanked as well.  On lo-gain volume knob at 1 o'clock and hi-gain volume knob at 11 o'clock.
> 
> It looked sort of like this:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I suppose it really depends on your player then
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  When running it off a low power device, such as my phone, I have it on high gain 3 oclock most of the time.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  At this rate the HE-500 wouldnt get narly enough power from it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Of course when connected to a PC, thats a whole different story 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  By the way anyone has this problem - When connected to the pc via the USB (power selector - USB) I get these weird noises from the amp. They are more likely coming from the computer as I can hear the parts working inside... Whenever I click on something or move the mouse or just simply connected, this buzzing is coming from my phones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I tried 2 different computers , 2 different cables but the buzzing is still there with both PCs/cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It is relatively loud (well I can hear it crearly) an ots really as if the Amp was drawing the noises from the PC...
   
  Im sure there was a post around here somewhere.
   
  Thanks!
   
  Best regards, Luke


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> I suppose it really depends on your player then
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  To me, the noise problem is very strange indeed. 
  Anyone who owns the NFB can comment on it?
  Does the DragonFly generate the same kind of noise?


----------



## tim3320070

It is inherent when powering from the USB but not from the battery.  I have not heard this noise from other usb powered portables however but I have also never heard better SQ from a portable DAC/amp despite the noise when in usb power mode, let alone from battery power. Currawong can maybe comment on the Dragonfly vs 16.


----------



## Currawong

I get a very slight high-pitched whine when USB is connected (via a special hub, not directly) with the NFB-16, regardless of which power option is selected. 
   
  NFB-16 vs.Dragonfly: Almost in it. I think instruments sound a touch more natural with the NFB-16 and a touch more "dry" with the Dragonfly. This is something I'm picky about (and more conscious off because my normal system is high-end). The NFB-16 with battery power is better than either using USB power for complex/fast music.  
   
  I just finished building an O2 as well (using the NE5532 as I couldn't get the recommended OPAMP through Mouser here) and compared the amp of the NFB-16 with that of the O2 using my Calyx DAC as the source and there is nothing in it again, with the O2 sounding a fraction clearer and the NFB-16 a fraction smoother. I doubt I'd be able to tell them apart if I didn't know which amp I was listening to.
   
  Note in all of the above: I was using the Symphones Magnums, which might be described as high-resolution Grados not made by Grado). I'm going to assume that most people buying any of these will use a typical, fairly easy to drive pair of headphones, which is pretty much Grados or any of the recent mid-range headphones costing under $500 (or ones that should, such as the Ultrasones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## JakeJack_2008

Quote: 





currawong said:


> I get a very slight high-pitched whine when USB is connected (via a special hub, not directly) with the NFB-16, regardless of which power option is selected.
> 
> NFB-16 vs.Dragonfly: Almost in it. I think instruments sound a touch more natural with the NFB-16 and a touch more "dry" with the Dragonfly. This is something I'm picky about (and more conscious off because my normal system is high-end). The NFB-16 with battery power is better than either using USB power for complex/fast music.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Does the DragonFly also generate the same kind of noise due to being _USB-powered_ via a *special hub *and*/*or  *directly*?
  (As we know, the DragonFly is _only _USB-powered.)
   
  What would  happen if you would use the _ODAC - _instead your  Calyx DAC - as the source with the O2?
   
  Finally, would it mean that as DAC/Amp combos the O2/ODAC, Dragonfly and  NFB-16
  are practically   indistinguishable   *in terms of sound quality*?
   
  P.S.
_It puzzles me _why this thread  is not as popular as the DragonFly-thread started by Jude?
  Consequently, it shows very  little interest in the NFB-16.
  Is it due to the very small_ form factor _of the Dragonfly?


----------



## conquerator2

From a different sidenote 
   
  Guys how do you find the DAC partion fo the amp?
   
  As I cant afford to get the bifrost for now, Im planning to use the NFB-16-DAC with the Lyr and HE-500.
   
  Thanks!
  Best regards, Luke


----------



## liamstrain

I think if I were looking for a USB dac only (to use with another amp), you would get better performance for the same (or lower) price, if you get a unit that is just that...


----------



## conquerator2

Its not available anymore... Is it discontinued or what?


----------



## Ghaunty22

Somethings not right here.
   
  There is no difference that I can tell with the amp going or just plugging my HD600s into the sansa mp3 player. I would have thought this amp pack a punch.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





ghaunty22 said:


> Somethings not right here.
> 
> There is no difference that I can tell with the amp going or just plugging my HD600s into the sansa mp3 player. I would have thought this amp pack a punch.


 
   
  I don't have the NFB-16 but I can tell you the HD600 was shockingly good with my Sansa Clip. It almost made me lose my faith in amping...or at least question what I took for granted...


----------



## Ghaunty22

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I don't have the NFB-16 but I can tell you the HD600 was shockingly good with my Sansa Clip. It almost made me lose my faith in amping...or at least question what I took for granted...


 
  Ill agree, compared to my bros iphone & ipod the sansa puts out.
   
  Still this amp is way too quiet.


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





ghaunty22 said:


> Ill agree, compared to my bros iphone & ipod the sansa puts out.
> 
> Still this amp is way too quiet.


 
   
  Yeah, you have to push it to the max to get _close _to listening level on classical. The point was more than I'm shocked at how good it sounds. 
   
  Now, I'm back to being a fly on the wall, since I don't have the NFB-16...


----------



## Ghaunty22

Even with High Gain this isnt enough to bring my 600's alive & I even like to go more than just "alive" with the desktop amp. considering its size & price & Huge body its only a bit louder over the TINY sansa.


----------



## Grev

Did you get the battery version and is it connected to the mains?


----------



## qusp

jakejack_2008 said:


> To me, the noise problem is very strange indeed.
> Anyone who owns the NFB can comment on it?
> Does the DragonFly generate the same kind of noise?




clearly this is ground bounce from transients on the USB ground of your computer getting through, sounds like the filtering on the USB input could use some work


----------



## tim3320070

Selling my original version if anyone is interested- I still have the new battery version (which I am loving).


----------



## wes008

Sorry for bumping this up, but is this little guy still available? I don't see it on the Audio-gd products page, but it's not under discontinued either... I would just email them, but I don't want a quote until I'm absolutely set on purchasing.


----------



## conquerator2

wes008 said:


> Sorry for bumping this up, but is this little guy still available? I don't see it on the Audio-gd products page, but it's not under discontinued either... I would just email them, but I don't want a quote until I'm absolutely set on purchasing.


they wont send you a quote right away. just ask Kingwa or send an email their wy. I have its god vey neutrl yet dynamic and relatively powerful


----------



## wes008

Emailed them and they said they discontinued it due to 2% of users having compatibility issues. Talk about dedication! Anyhoo, Kingwa has offered me one anyway, albeit without warranty. He also said they'll be releasing a revision next year. Should I go for it?


----------



## conquerator2

wes008 said:


> Emailed them and they said they discontinued it due to 2% of users having compatibility issues. Talk about dedication! Anyhoo, Kingwa has offered me one anyway, albeit without warranty. He also said they'll be releasing a revision next year. Should I go for it?




Depends... What do you wanna use it with? I think its a great portable as well as desktop dac amp. I like it. It has enough juice to power my pro 900 but you cant go much lower efficiency wise. So dont expect it to drive hard to drive phones. Compared to my E11,it has a little less(!) power but improves the slund much better. It is dynamic and neutral.


----------



## wes008

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Depends... What do you wanna use it with? I think its a great portable as well as desktop dac amp. I like it. It has enough juice to power my pro 900 but you cant go much lower efficiency wise. So dont expect it to drive hard to drive phones. Compared to my E11,it has a little less(!) power but improves the slund much better. It is dynamic and neutral.


 
  Thanks for the advice! I turned it down to wait for the revisions when I have more cash. And I was going to use it both at home and on the go to power some lower-end Beyers and Grados, so I think it will be fine.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





wes008 said:


> Thanks for the advice! I turned it down to wait for the revisions when I have more cash. And I was going to use it both at home and on the go to power some lower-end Beyers and Grados, so I think it will be fine.


 
   
  Then it should suit your needs... Cant see how a revision could be better, but hey what do I know


----------



## wes008

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> Then it should suit your needs... Cant see how a revision could be better, but hey what do I know


 
  Awesome! And, the only thing different in the revision will be an updated driver. No, not a usb driver, the "driver" in the dac/amp.


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## Currawong

I think Kingwa would rather release something that works with 100% of users, not 98%. I've suggested it already, but the same thing in a case half the size with much smaller switches and only 3.5mm input would be brilliant I reckon.


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## wes008

Quote: 





currawong said:


> ...and only 3.5mm input would be brilliant I reckon.


 
  But I like my 1/4 inch headphone compatibility  Do you know of an amp/dac similar to this one, Curra? (more interested in the dac portion)


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## tim3320070

Using a wall wart power supply increases it's output over battery and USB.
  I am curious abut the new version coming.


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## willytboy

Hey guy's I'm really new to this site and recently purchased this Dac/Amp. How ever I don't really like it as much since my headphones don't really need a high impedance to drive them. I only own this for one day and was just wondering if any one was interested in purchasing this, since I cannot post on the Sell/Swap selection. How ever I have listed this on eBay 
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181035182587?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1363
 Since I'm from Australia, I will post this overseas. Cheers

 *Please don't be put off by my 1 post and thinking I am a scammer.Thanks


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