# New M8 DAC from SMSL (9018/XMOS)



## ljbrandt

Looks interesting!   Especially at this pricepoint!
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-M8-DAC-ES9018-OPTIC-Coaxial-XMOS-USB-Asynchronous-384KHZ-24Bit-DSD64-128-/351220414036?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item51c65e3654


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## shutterbox

I find this interesting too.
  
 I went to SMSL's support site and found nothing to download (specifically USB driver)
  
 with no good support info, I hesitate to buy 1 to try out


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## bbqrooster

The DAC came with a driver disc that contains the USB driver and foobar2000 components.


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## Waqar

bbqrooster said:


> The DAC came with a driver disc that contains the USB driver and foobar2000 components.


 

 Nice, and how does it sound?


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## bbqrooster

The SMSL M8 is an upgrade to my current XMOS PCM5102 DAC. I tried it first with my PC and foobar2000. I played music in 32bit/352.8KHz format and also DSD64 format, it sounds excellent compared to my old DAC. I then connected it to my main system in my listening room and that's where it shined. It is now a permanent fixture in my listening room.


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## Waqar

Sounds good, thanks for the feedback.


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## Waqar

And by the way, i have one of these gems (i hope it turns out, like one for my taste)on the way now


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## Waqar

bbqrooster said:


> The SMSL M8 is an upgrade to my current XMOS PCM5102 DAC. I tried it first with my PC and foobar2000. I played music in 32bit/352.8KHz format and also DSD64 format, it sounds excellent compared to my old DAC. I then connected it to my main system in my listening room and that's where it shined. It is now a permanent fixture in my listening room.




Did you try the sound filters 7 different ones it is suppoused to have? Do they make alot of difference?


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## P701

Very tempted to get one like this myself, but there are only very few reviews or opinions about this.
Would also like to hear what people have to say about this who have gotten one of these. The specs looks stunning.


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## elad

thaks for the review
 i'm just looking for a dac to replace my good old asus d2x,this look like a good bargin but i heard that smsl dac/amps have a cold sond,is it true?


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## Trae

I going to pick one of these up next week along with a Gustard H10. As P701 said, the specs of this DAC is awesome for its price. You usually have to fork over a lot of money in order to get over 20 usable bits of audio (125dB dynamic range) while having crosstalk, THD, and SNR levels that good. I'm guessing they were able to keep the price down by using an external power adaptor, and using unbalanced outputs and components. Balanced dacs are typically much more expensive since you have to double up on basically everything for both channels.
  
 I wish someone could review the unit and provide some measurements since I'm still a bit skeptical of these specs. These specs are better than a Schiit Bifrost Uber...for over half the price and size.


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## bbqrooster

There are 7 filters, 3 for the PCM mode (Fast roll-off, Slow roll-off and mini phase roll-off) and 4 for the DSD mode (47K, 50K, 60K and 70K cut-off frequency). These filters are supposed to alter the music characteristic during playback. For example, the slow roll-off is supposed to attenuate slightly the high frequency. Up to now, I have been using the fast roll-off filter and found the sound to be my liking. I have not used the other filters for extensive comparison yet.


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## ljbrandt

bbqrooster said:


> The SMSL M8 is an upgrade to my current XMOS PCM5102 DAC. I tried it first with my PC and foobar2000. I played music in 32bit/352.8KHz format and also DSD64 format, it sounds excellent compared to my old DAC. I then connected it to my main system in my listening room and that's where it shined. It is now a permanent fixture in my listening room.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, which PCM5102 DAC were you coming from?  I currently use the Stoner UD120 and think it's really nice!


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## bbqrooster

This one http://www.ebay.com/itm/upgrade-gold-0-1ppm-TCXO-XMOS-PCM5102-DAC-decoder-USB-to-coaxial-headphone-384K-/131329570277?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e93da35e5


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## bbqrooster

I bought the XMOS PCM5102 DAC from minishow0328 on ebay. I am not allowed to post link. Search for upgrade gold 0.1ppm TCXO XMOS PCM5102 DAC.


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## justsven

Got my M8 DAC and VA2 amp now. Letter I will compare with my ODAC and vali.


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## Vernon D

The unit comes with a nominal 500mA wall- wart power supply. The Dac itself draws just under 480mA. I did not have a suitable linear 9 Volt supply at hand, so I attached a supply from 8 AA NiMH batteries - nominally 9.6 Volts. 

For those wishing to experience a worthwhile improvement on the performance of this DAC, I strongly suggest you try a similar power supply change.


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## Trae

Hmmm. I found this:
  
http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=73&product_id=64
  
 9V 1A DC Linear Power Supply with some noise filters and whatnot. It also has a USB out for whatever other dacs you might use in the future. I did the steps and it comes out to $59 with $15 air mail shipping (EMS is $28). Pretty good price, and it seems like a great match for this dac.
  
 EDIT: I don't recommend buying from here. I placed my order for one, and my sale has been on pending since Sunday (12/21/14). I also haven't gotten any response from my email. I'll wait it out until next monday, and if nothing has changed, then I'll have to file a claim.
  
 EDIT2: Do not buy from here. I had to file a claim with paypal to get my money back.


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## abhinit90

justsven said:


> Got my M8 DAC and VA2 amp now. Letter I will compare with my ODAC and vali.


 
 Waiting for your impressions


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## Waqar

abhinit90 said:


> Waiting for your impressions




+1


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## Juventino77

Hey there Justven, hope you well.
 Wanted to find out how the M8 has treated you so far?
  
 I am looking to purchase one and would like some info on how it sounds and if you have had any issues
 Thanks


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## Juventino77

justsven said:


> Got my M8 DAC and VA2 amp now. Letter I will compare with my ODAC and vali.


 
 New on here so not 100% on how things work.
  
 info on this DAC / user reviews


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## money4me247

yea, anyone have any impressions?? these are on massdrop right now


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## ljbrandt

money4me247 said:


> yea, anyone have any impressions?? these are on massdrop right now


 
 Thanks for the heads up!


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## Trevorlj

I just got mine. It took 9 days from "senyuanbusiness" on EBay. Should have been no more than 6 days according to the ad but whatever.
  
 I'm impressed! I've fed it 384/24 and DSD128 via ASIO and it's chewed thru it...no prob.:
  
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/trevorlj1/DSC01777_zpsf648215e.jpg
  
 I was surprised by the little screen...it's pretty sweet.  They should have captured that in the press pics.
  
 How does it sound? Awesome IMO! Nothing amazing but I have a Emotiva ERC-3 CD player here and a Cambridge DacMagic 100. I'm a fan of Emotiva but the AD1955 in the Emotiva is just dead...blah.  I've been listening to the DacMagic 100/Wolfson WM8742 and it's way better. Very dynamic and punchy.  Not apologetic but it's very forward and ticked off.  The M8/ESS9018 Sounds very similar to the DacMagic...just turned down a notch.  I think it's a hair better IMO...maybe a little clearer too.  Still trying to decide.
  
 Now to decide if this is good enough or do I want to go for a Schiit Gungnir.  My wife's gonna kill me!


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## 552388

The links works? I never get the chance open the links in this thread, a bit worried.....


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## 552388

Sorry, this time the links works. Interesting unit. Thanks for the review also


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## Trevorlj

I've done a lot of A-B'ing with the DacMagic 100/Wolfson WM8742 and I've got to say I like the DacMagic better than the M8 for 44.1kHz from a CD transport. The big discriminator is I feel the soundstage on the DacMagic is much more enveloping.  Instruments have more separation and presence.  It's a little more smooth than the M8 too with 44.1kHz (not quite as "digital" sounding).

I had kinda written off the M8 as something I'd only use for 352.8kHz/384khz/DSD (of which there's very little to be found)...that was until I downloaded my first high res audio of something I'm very familiar with (Rush's Sector One box set in 96/24).  It gets pretty poor reviews as far as high res goes but whatever...I wanted to check it out.  Well the DacMagic wore me out and gave me a headache by the end of 2112.  The cymbals (and most of the treble) were just WAY too aggressive...lots of sizzle and the smoothness I enjoyed from CD's was gone.  I switched to "The Fountain of Lamneth" and it was more of the same.  As soon as it started the acoustic guitar intro was just wrong...way too hot.  I A-B'ed with the M8 (set to "FAST") and the SMSL was/is more enjoyable to listen to with the 96/24.  Smoother and not fatiguing.  I think it's just much better suited to high res.

So yeah...(relatively) cheap DACs...whatta mixed bag!


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## 552388

trevorlj said:


> I've done a lot of A-B'ing with the DacMagic 100/Wolfson WM8742 and I've got to say I like the DacMagic better than the M8 for 44.1kHz from a CD transport. The big discriminator is I feel the soundstage on the DacMagic is much more enveloping.  Instruments have more separation and presence.  It's a little more smooth than the M8 too with 44.1kHz (not quite as "digital" sounding).
> 
> I had kinda written off the M8 as something I'd only use for 352.8kHz/384khz/DSD (of which there's very little to be found)...that was until I downloaded my first high res audio of something I'm very familiar with (Rush's Sector One box set in 96/24).  It gets pretty poor reviews as far as high res goes but whatever...I wanted to check it out.  Well the DacMagic wore me out and gave me a headache by the end of 2112.  The cymbals (and most of the treble) were just WAY too aggressive...lots of sizzle and the smoothness I enjoyed from CD's was gone.  I switched to "The Fountain of Lamneth" and it was more of the same.  As soon as it started the acoustic guitar intro was just wrong...way too hot.  I A-B'ed with the M8 (set to "FAST") and the SMSL was/is more enjoyable to listen to with the 96/24.  Smoother and not fatiguing.  I think it's just much better suited to high res.
> 
> So yeah...(relatively) cheap DACs...whatta mixed bag!


 

 Thanks for the detail review, but seems DacMagic 100 is much higher in price?


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## Trevorlj

552388 said:


> Thanks for the detail review, but seems DacMagic 100 is much higher in price?


 

 I'm not sure what the Massdrop M8 price is but they're pretty close thru normal retailers ($249 vs $299).


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## money4me247

trevorlj said:


> I'm not sure what the Massdrop M8 price is but they're pretty close thru normal retailers ($249 vs $299).




massdrop was offerin $179


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## Trae

Well, I got my M8 in. The only thing I can compare it to is an E17 (DAC section), so I'm sorry that I can't really give a well rounded impression. In short, it's better in every way. I'm feeding the audio through USB.
  
 When I first played a song on it, I instantly heard that it sounded more neutral (E17 is warmer) and more revealing than the E17 (I'm using the L7 to use it as a standalone DAC, bypassing the amp). It sounds like a veil has been lifted compared to the E17, although a small one. I'm hearing some hiss on recordings that wasn't there with the E17, the bass sounds more distinct, less bloated and more coherent, and there is more separation than with the E17 (again, a slight difference).
  
 Now, although the difference is instantly noticeable, the difference isn't night and day. It's difference enough for me to pick out which is which in an A/B blind test, though. Well, I guess it is night and day if I can spot it out in a blind test, haha. I'm satisfied 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The only downside is that I didn't know that MassDrop had a drop on it, so I ended up paying $220 for it. To make it worse, I frequently buy stuff off of there, so it was completely possible for me to join the drop. The only reassurance I can give myself is that I spent $220 on it instead of $250, and that I don't have to wait until late January to get one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


It's still $40 more than MD, though...Grrr.


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## Waqar

My m8 dac is here, just have to get it from the post office.


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## sgbwill2

waqar said:


> My m8 dac is here, just have to get it from the post office.


 
 Interested in your impressions of it. What DAC's do you have for comparison?


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## Waqar

sgbwill2 said:


> Interested in your impressions of it. What DAC's do you have for comparison?




Not many right now, only the built in dac in my xtz d100 mk2 amplifier. So i cant compare it. Uswd to have a yulong d200.


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## crazylegs

I also have received my M8 yesterday.  I have to say the sound quality is amazing. I will give give a more detail review later.  It is worth noting that this little dac has an amazing sound quality. I purchased mine through amazon. They delivered it to me in two days. I do have two issues to share.  Please let me know if those of you that have this dac are experiencing the same bugs.  
  
 Bug 1:
 The dac automatically turns off after being on standby (idle) for ~5min..  It works excellent if sound is going through it, but it shuts off if no sound is going through it.  Not a deal breaker but when plugged into the PC i have to remember to manually turn it on.  
  
 Bug 2:  
 This one is of a concern  as this is one of the reasons on why i purchased the M8.  The M8 is being advertised as being android 4.0+ compatible. I cannot get my samsung tab pro 12 to recognize the M8.  I have other usb dac that do work with my tablet so im pretty confident it isn't the tablet or my USB OTG cable.  When i plug in the M8 you can hear it click over. The LCD display immediately changes to USB locked.  When the  music begins playing, the M8 switches from locked to unlocked several times. When the music stops you hear a digital buzzing noise.
  
 Those of you that have the M8, Please chime in and let me know if you are experiencing these same bugs.  If not then i will attempt to get a replacement though amazon.  Perhaps i got a bad apple.
  
 Anywho.
 I'm pretty sure the SMSL can easily solve these problems with a simple firmware upgrade.  I've sent them an email today.  I hope to hear a response from them soon.  
  
 Its a shame because as a stand alone PC USB DAC the M8 is flat out awesome.  It has played everything i thrown at it with incredible detail.


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## Trae

Well, I'd count bug 1 as a feature more than a bug. The M8 uses an OLED display, which is susceptible to screen retention and burning. So, having it shut down while not in use will definitely prolong the life of the screen, and the timed shut down was most likely incorporated because of that. Granted, I'd prefer to turn off the screen by some selectable setting, or to have it turn on when audio plays, but it's not a big deal to me, personally. With my short time with it so far, turning it back on and restarting whatever application that's running audio only takes a couple seconds. It's more steps than it should be, but I'll live with it.
  
 I can't comment on the second part. I have an android tablet with 4.4.2 (1st gen kindle fire with a custom rom) on it, but it doesn't support usb host.


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## Trevorlj

I haven't tried a tablet or phone via USB with my M8.


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## edinaldo12

I've just ordered a m8, and I'm anxious to get it. 
Have anyone changed the stock cables or power supply?

Also, I wonder how does it compare to Matrix mini pro, that I considered to buy but had to give up given it was pricy.


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## Trevorlj

FYI...while my desktop sounded great with the M8 there was quite a bit of light background/interference noise with my laptop (coinciding with heavy processor and hard drive operation) while connected via USB.  I tried a 4 various cables that I had laying around and there was barely any change.  I opened up one of the cables and clipped the power and ground wires and that completely eliminated the noise.


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## Trae

trevorlj said:


> FYI...while my desktop sounded great with the M8 there was quite a bit of light background/interference noise with my laptop (coinciding with heavy processor and hard drive operation) while connected via USB.  I tried a 4 various cables that I had laying around and there was barely any change.  I opened up one of the cables and clipped the power and ground wires and that completely eliminated the noise.


 
  
 Nice tip. I did the same to my cable, and it got rid of a lot of the noise. I still get some interference if I turn up the volume on my H10, though (my other amps are fine, but the H10 seems to be really sensitive to interference noise). I'm also getting an 8kHz sound after cutting the wires. It goes away whenever I close out of a program that plays audio. I thought I could dodge getting a wyrd...guess not.


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## Trae

Small update on the noise issue I have. Got the Wyrd in, and it still didn't work, but I found out why I got noise. It was my RCA cables hooking into the amp. I replaced them with Monoprice RCA cables, and there is no noise at all when using the modified USB cable. I can turn the gain and volume at max on the H10, and the only noise I get is a slight hissing sound from the amp. There is still some interference when using a normal USB cable, but it's much less than with the original RCA cable I was using. I'd say it's about the same noise level as when I was using the original RCA cable with the modified USB cable.
  
 So, for those who are having interference issues with this DAC, try using the above linked RCA cables with a chopped up USB cable. Alternatively, you could just use S/PDIF and get the same results. You won't be able to go above 192kHz/24-bit or use DSD, though.


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## Guidostrunk

Interesting. Are you basically making an diy USB to coax cable? If so I'd like to know how to make one. Lol thanks......... Nevermind. I read back through the thread. 





trae said:


> Small update on the noise issue I have. Got the Wyrd in, and it still didn't work, but I found out why I got noise. It was my RCA cables hooking into the amp. I replaced them with Monoprice RCA cables, and there is no noise at all when using the modified USB cable. I can turn the gain and volume at max on the H10, and the only noise I get is a slight hissing sound from the amp. There is still some interference when using a normal USB cable, but it's much less than with the original RCA cable I was using. I'd say it's about the same noise level as when I was using the original RCA cable with the modified USB cable.
> 
> So, for those who are having interference issues with this DAC, try using the above linked RCA cables with a chopped up USB cable. Alternatively, you could just use S/PDIF and get the same results. You won't be able to go above 192kHz/24-bit or use DSD, though.


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## Sunsyn

Great DAC, love it with DSD files, but PCM is no slouch.
 Nice design.
 Great improvement is possible by replacing power adapter with clean linear supply as TeraDak U9VA.
 All in all, lot of sound for 250$.


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## mikey1964

Anyone has this DAC with a Lyr? I'm thinking of getting the M8 to stack with my Lyr. Had intended/planned for an iFi Nano iDSD but since I already have the Micro iDSD, I'd decided to shelf the idea. I still have a couple to a few days before the local distributer here gets stock of it, so should I pull the proverbial trigger?


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## crazylegs

mikey1964 said:


> Anyone has this DAC with a Lyr? I'm thinking of getting the M8 to stack with my Lyr. Had intended/planned for an iFi Nano iDSD but since I already have the Micro iDSD, I'd decided to shelf the idea. I still have a couple to a few days before the local distributer here gets stock of it, so should I pull the proverbial trigger?


 
 Sorry..  I have the M8 with the Gustard H10.  This DAC is fabulous sounding and compliments the Gustard H10 perfectly. I couldn't imagine this not meeting your expectations. It decodes everything i've thrown at it.  The M8 comes with a driver disk containing the instructions, drivers and plugin for DSD decoding with foobar.  I purchased mine from Amazon.  Got two day prime shipping.


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## Sunsyn

I don't have Lyr, but use mine with two hi-end amps in higher value category.
 It sounds surprisingly fine and definitely is not a weak part of very demanding listening set up.
 It much exceeded my expectation, given the price or even not looking at price.
 I initially planned to use it just for sporadic (while travelling) notebook music listening.
 Now, I realize that it is easily main DAC for critical home listening in any high-end setup..
 So far, cannot find apparent weaknesses neither functionally (as DAC) nor sonic-wise.
 Seems guys simply did it right and in its simplicity SMSL M8 is just amazingly great, small box.
 In relation to power supply, the replacement is not absolute 'must have', yes, there is improvement in very fine elements, but definitely not night and day. Given the price of M8, I find it reasonable to spend a little bit more and provide it with good power, as well.
 Seems that I will change my plans for buying something 'bigger and pricier' for home, as quality of sound advancements do not justify that in most of cases.


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## mikey1964

Thanks for the feedback, guys, they're much appreciated. I've gone ahead and ordered the SMSL M8, I should be getting it at the end of the month, or very early in Feb. Also bidding for an AKG K812Pro, though it's tough going since there're a few interested in it so it's quite 'iffy', and looking at a Sony MDR Z7 as well. Might get a Vali as well while I'm at it....


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## mikey1964

A quick update, managed to get the K812 for 840USD, so I'm happy. Will try it out with the Lyr + SMSL M8 stack and see what shakes loose.


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## hpamdr

I have the tiny box and it sound very clear and very detailed.
 To have the ability to read dsd files with foobar, you just have to select in the asio proxy to play with *DoP Marker 0x05/0xFA*. Now i can listem DSD decently decoded when im 'on the road through my portable amp ant the ers4s !
 I did also some test with my main system an it sound great listening from vocal jazz to Wagner symphony using mini or fast filter for PCM and 5K for DSD
 ..
  
 What is missing are:
 a dedicated usb driver and not the common "dev sample" provided by xmos.
 a real windows control panel with the ability to change filter and input without pressing the small button.
 a better psu could be nice to have but in other hand i have so many that i do not use...
  
 I did improve the listening experience powering from regulated battery pack.
  
 This is good for the price !


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## iano

M8 is back on massdrop btw.... $179 is target price if enough people commit


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## pchin

*Deleted (Double Post)


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## pchin

I'm using Foobar. As of now, the M8 can do PCM only. How do I get it to work on the DSD files? 

One of the folders Inside the Installation disc is "Filters" that has numbers from 30kHz to 60kHz. How do I add this filter into Foobar? Also, how do I activate the DSD filter: 47k, 50k, 60k, 70k? Appreciate any advice, thanks.


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## hpamdr

Try what i've writen on my prevoius post.
  - To have the ability to read dsd files with foobar, you just have to select in the foo dsd asio asio mode with *DoP Marker 0x05/0xFA*.
   - select output with  foo_dsd_asio
    - on SACD decoding, set ASIO mode to DSD.
  
 You cannot select the filter by software, you need to use the physical button on front right.
  
 The best filter  depend on your cans and your amplifier .. ( 50KHz bypass is comonly used )
 For PCM i use minimum phase
if you want a good document on filter check the one of auralic !


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## hpamdr

Install  DSD/SACD decoding, asio proxy foo_dsd_asio, and configure.
 on SACD decoding tool, set ASIO mode to DSD.
 on foo_dsd_asio set mode to with *DoP Marker 0x05/0xFA*.
 select foo_dsd_asio as output !
 All should be OK..
  
 About hardware filter, you can select them only using the front right button.
 for PCM i like the minimum phase, fast
 for DSD i use bypass at 50K.  // this can depend on your can and your amp..
  
 A good document on filter is the one for Auralic Vega DAC,  Search for AURALiC Flexible Filter Mode Explanation !
 This DAC is using ESS9018S  and not the stereo only ESS9018K2M of the M8.
  
 B.R.
 hpamdr


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## pchin

Hi hpamdr,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I saw your previous post & have installed all those mentioned. Unfortunately, I still can't get my Foobar working properly. Hope you could take a look at my screen shots to verify if I did something wrong to the settings:























I'm using Foobar2000 v1.3.7 Thanks  I'm also using AIMP3 which has a bit better luck. It can at least play both dsf & dff files but the M8 display them as PCM. Can't get the DSD to work.


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## bbqrooster

Did you set your foobar volume to 100%. That was my mistake.


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## pchin

bbqrooster said:


> Did you set your foobar volume to 100%. That was my mistake.



 


Yes, the volume is set to 100%


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## hpamdr

Just a small detail is the transition delay that i set to 10ms, i also use High priority process..
  
 I do not have WASAPI support and not ASIO4ALL..


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## pchin

I've removed both WASAPI & ASIO4ALL but to no avail. I'll try to fiddle with the setting again later & see if there's any luck. Thanks.


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## pchin

> Originally Posted by *crazylegs*:
> 
> Bug 2:
> 
> This one is of a concern as this is one of the reasons on why i purchased the M8. The M8 is being advertised as being android 4.0+ compatible. I cannot get my samsung tab pro 12 to recognize the M8. I have other usb dac that do work with my tablet so im pretty confident it isn't the tablet or my USB OTG cable. When i plug in the M8 you can hear it click over. The LCD display immediately changes to USB locked. When the music begins playing, the M8 switches from locked to unlocked several times. When the music stops you hear a digital buzzing noise.




Unfortunately, I'm having a similar fate. Once the USB OTG connected to my Samsung Note 4 phone & Samsung Tab S (both screen would display "USB Connector Connected"). However, there's no sound when the music is playing on my phone/Tab. The M8 display is fixed at the "Locked" screen.


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## borrego

There is a firmware update for the M8 released by SMSL: http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=download&id=1130&
  
 The firmware update need to be run by the utility in the driver package: http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=download&id=1109&


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## ChodeMaster

Do you have any information on what the changes in the update are?


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## pchin

I did the firmware update but still no joy. Geez this is getting frustrating. Is there anyone else that is also having so much problem with the M8 playing DSD files or is it me only? My unit might be a lemon unit. I'll try to get a replacement...more hassle... lol


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## theory_87

Trying to update my m8 but keep giving me the error message below.
  
 tusbaudio_getdfustatus: function failed with error code 0xee000003.
  
 Anyone can help?


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## Trevorlj

theory_87 said:


> Trying to update my m8 but keep giving me the error message below.
> 
> tusbaudio_getdfustatus: function failed with error code 0xee000003.
> 
> Anyone can help?


 
  
 Same deal here.
  
 I haven't had any other issues though...mine works fine from 44.1-384 KHz and 64 & 128 DSD.


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## pchin

trevorlj said:


> Same deal here.
> 
> I haven't had any other issues though...mine works fine from 44.1-384 KHz and 64 & 128 DSD.


 
  
 Hi *Trevorlj, * 
  
 If you're using Foobar could you post your setting? Tnx


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## Ratio

Does anyone else use this DAC with the optical connection, mine keeps on going to "unlock" screen if no sound is playing through my computer when in optical mode. The clicking sound is driving me crazy :/
 Is there a way to lock the mode with some tinkering on the computer?


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## Trevorlj

pchin said:


> Hi *Trevorlj, *
> 
> If you're using Foobar could you post your setting? Tnx


 

 I'm using JRiver Media Center 19.


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## pchin

trevorlj said:


> I'm using JRiver Media Center 19.



 


I'll give JRiver a try. I hope the setting is much easier than Foobar. I'm tired of trying Foobar with no result.


----------



## hpamdr

I did try from android device Android 5.0 with usb Audio, I only have 192Khz as sampling rate...
 I had a bunch of trouble with low quality OTG plug  (locked after some click) and since I've switched to beter cables all is beter.
  
  
  
 I've also intalled USB Audio player PRO and now it is great !
 The device need to be fully charged.
 I also retart the phone/tablet/Box with OTG and DAC powereb before trying to play or  each time i modify some parameter in USB Audio Player.
 I did have some locking of wrong sample rate if i do not properly restart  For DSD I have some cut probably due to the OTG bandwith limitation.
  
 I had no pbs to update the firmware except that i did not noticed any changes...
  
 I will give some more try from my Adroid TV Box and see how it perform with MPD.


----------



## DanBa

pchin said:


> Unfortunately, I'm having a similar fate. Once the USB OTG connected to my Samsung Note 4 phone & Samsung Tab S (both screen would display "USB Connector Connected"). However, there's no sound when the music is playing on my phone/Tab. The M8 display is fixed at the "Locked" screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Let's suppose the SMSL M8 is compatible with the native USB audio of your Android device.
 music file >> stock music player (or YouTube) running on Android device >> USB OTG adapter cable + regular USB cable provided by SMSL >> SMSL M8 USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
  
 Each component should be separately tested.
 Go to next test only if the ongoing test is successful.
  
 . Test the SMSL M8 with a PC or a Mac:
 PC >> regular USB cable >>  SMSL M8 USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
  
  . Test the Android device with a USB OTG adapter cable and a simpler USB peripheral like a USB mouse or a USB keyboard:
 Android device >> USB OTG adapter cable >> USB mouse
  
 . Test the complete setup:
 music file >> stock music player (or YouTube) running on Android device >> USB OTG adapter + regular USB cable >> SMSL M8 USB DAC >> amp >> headphones
  
  
 If the last test is not successful, the current native USB audio of the Android device is apparently not compatible with the SMSL M8.
 Then test the SMSL M8 with one of the following three music player apps which include its own USB audio user-space driver (i.e. USB DAC driver):
 . USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP): "Important: connect your device BEFORE starting the app, otherwise it will not get detected!"
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro
 . HibyMusic: free
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music
 . Onkyo HF Player
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onkyo.jp.musicplayer
 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onkyo.jp.hfplayer_unlocker
  
  


  
  
 The Android media player framework can only output 48kHz PCM audio to an external USB DAC for the time being.
 USB Audio Player PRO, HibyMusic and Onkyo HF Player can play and output high resolution audio. They can also play DSD music file and output DSD over PCM (DoP).
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/6285#post_11306308
_A list of USB OTG cables:
 http://goo.gl/4JyOe5_
  
  
  
 Android USB Audio is in the first step of development.
 The FiiO E17 USB DAC/amp for example was not compatible with the first version of USB audio of the Samsung Galaxy S3. The E17 can now work with the S3.
  
 It is not easy for the latest entrants (Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG, ..., 3rd party USB audio developers like UAPP developer or Onkyo, and now Google with Android 5.0 Lollipop) in the existing USB DAC jungle because the USB specification allows some variability.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/4080#post_10270550
  
 The latest entrants have to adapt their USB audio implementation to (most) existing USB DACs.
 They have to be compatible with different interpretations of the USB specification.
  
 Once the native Google USB audio becomes mature, it will very likely become a reference USB audio implementation in the USB DAC industry used  for testing by the developers of new USB DACs, i.e. these USB DAC developers will have to adopt the Google interpretation of the USB specification, because a "professional" USB DAC maker should not ignore Android, the biggest computing device market share.
  
 The XMOS Multi-Function Audio Design Reference is used by many USB DAC makers to speed up the development of their USB DAC compatible with PC, Mac and Android; and the XMOS developers test it against PC, Mac and some key Android devices.


----------



## pchin

Gosh finally I got the DSD files to play! The culprit is the USB slot in my laptop which has some issues. After I switched it to another USB slot, everything works perfectly!


----------



## dwk

I have a couple questions on the mechanics of this unit that hopefully someone that has one can answer.
  
 - when you apply power via the outlet, does it come up in standby or can it start playing directly?
 - if the answer to the above is that it comes up in standby,is there any remote support at all (e.g. for a Harmony)? It doesn't appear so, but I figure it's worth checking.
  
 Reason for asking:
 My potential application is in our living room in an active system using a MiniDSP nano-digi.  I currently run all the DACS on switched power from the receiver (used for the amp channels and volume via the 7.1 analog inputs), and so in this mode the DACs have to go straight to playing when power is applied.  I do have it as an action item to get this system set up with a Harmony remote though, so if it can be powered on via the Harmony that might be acceptable.
  
 Given the auto-power off feature, I'm assuming everything is done electronically and it'll come up in standby and hence won't work in my setup, but give the apparent value proposition it seems worth asking.


----------



## hpamdr

The M8 DAC is powered in 9V and *NOT 5V* from a 2.5 x 5.5 mm plug.
  
 When you power on the Dac it goes in playing mode but if nothing is sent the unit goes in auto shutdown mode after less than 10 minutes.
  
 To wake it up you have to push a physical button on the front right (On/Off). On the left button, you can select with single press the input (USB, Optical,Coaxial) with long press you select the filters (PCM Mode: slow,mini,fast DSD mode: 40,50,60,70). Those functionality seems only available using this button but the choice are kept if you shut it down and restart it.
 The provided driver is the standard XMos Dev driver 2.23 and it does not have fancy control / feedback panel so you do not have soft button/control.
 The only remote you can have is the first my grand'pa made with a long cue and his knob-stick


----------



## pchin

The clicking sound is driving me mad! It's very very annoying! Aah!!! 

Btw, has anyone succeed in connecting their Android devices with the M8?


----------



## hpamdr

Yes it works on my phone Bacon + Cyonogen MOD 12 (based on Lollipop) but i still have many crack/clip when device is not fully charged. It works also on my TVBox but still have some trouble to make a setup with MDP.... Android seems to be less mature/flexible than linux boxes !
  
--Edited as general comment
 Android seems not to be yet a basis for audiophile player and at least coupled with SMSL M8. By the way, M8 is not really a portable device and i cannot ensure that power consumption through USB is neglegtable...
-- End of Edition
  
 Did you try to follow the steps DanBa indicated you ?
 I've seen in my tests that the M8 is sensible on which cable you use for USB. The provided one even if it is not the best of bread gives good result.
  
 The OTG cable is also to take into consideration, really use one of the advised cable if the device is not detected.
 Will you do not have the USB device detected it still can be a cable problem or a access limitation.
  
  
 You can use "USB Audio Tester" to verify if your device is detected !
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.sobe.usbaudio
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.sobe.usbaudioroot
  
 I rooted all my devices just in case access to USB can be protected.
  
 After, to ply music :
 The easiest app to setup is HibyMusic ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music )
 USB Audio Player pro is my favorite but not free and need internet access to check license...
 Onkyo apps seems to not have any USB Audio without activation and somehow screwed up HibyMusic install


----------



## Joong

This thread have attracted my attention.
 There is no further impression on it?
  
 I believe in minimalist approach for audio design like Nelson Pass design of his amps, and the Burson Audio approach for their product.
 So is the case of SMSL M8 which is tiny and compact, and hence I ordered one.
 Probably the weakest link of the unit might be the power supply, which might be fixed to prove their minimalist approach.


----------



## jogfi2002

Hi, does anyone have compared the M8 with Schiit Modi2?
  
 I am considering to choose one of them as my DAC.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Joong

According to the general opinions and the spec, M8 might be better than Modi.
The Sabre chip makes a diffetence.


----------



## hpamdr

The M8 is technically more advanced that the Modi2 but this is also not the same price and not the same customer service !
  
 If you want a small dac for everyday and office listening, you can even get a modi B stock.
  
 If you need an USB powered dac the moddi2 is a much better option !
 If you want a more complete but less nomad solution the M8 is better as it groups the modi2 + uber and some of the loki features.
  
 The M8 decoding is more precise but less warmer than the modi2 IMHO. To exploit the differences, you need to play lossless/DSD file from a stable source, have a quite transparent amp and good cans/speakers.
  
 The M8 is very sensible to USB cable and you can also enhance it changing the power supply also. (like you can do with moddi2 + wyrd)...


----------



## Trevorlj

I used the M8 in combination with a Little Dot MKII tube headphone amp during a 7 week hotel stay over the last few months and it worked/sounded awesome.  While I was gone I ordered a Schiit Gungnir DAC to replace my Cambridge DacMagic 100 feeding my Yaqin MC-100B 50wpc tube amp at home.  I was very happy with the DacMagic 100 but I couldn't ignore the positive Schiit reviews. The Gungnir was a definite step up...very warm/smooth/analog while retaining plenty of dynamics, punch, and bass.  Well I hooked the Little Dot headphone amp to the Gungnir and gave it a listen and ugh...very one dimensional, boring, hollow and way too forward around 2-3 kHz for my tastes. The M8 sounds WAY better with the Little Dot. The thing is the M8 doesn't sound very good on the big tube amp (very clinical with "digititus")...worse than the Gungnir & DacMagic 100 but better than the AD1955 built into my Emotiva ERC3 CD player. All opinions of course!!!
  
 So yeah...moral of the story it's all about the combo.  You can make some generalizations about which way the components lean but there's no telling until you fire them up together and take em for a spin.


----------



## hpamdr

Did you try to change the filters from slow to mini on PCM playing and use 50Khz or 60Khz filters on DSD when pairing M8 with your tube amp, those can have some influence and probably helps to remove some "digitus" or sibilance...
 But your advise is the best one all the difficulty is on pairing.


----------



## richbass

bbqrooster said:


> The SMSL M8 is an upgrade to my current XMOS PCM5102 DAC. I tried it first with my PC and foobar2000. I played music in 32bit/352.8KHz format and also DSD64 format, it sounds excellent compared to my old DAC. I then connected it to my main system in my listening room and that's where it shined. It is now a permanent fixture in my listening room.


 

 old dac? which one ?


----------



## borrego

I finally received my M8 two days ago after almost 1 month of waiting for Amazon Japan to ship.
  
 My initial impression with the M8 is it is a DAC with decent value but sure has its limit. I try playing some SACD rips via foobar ASIO/DSD/352kHz setting and not really impressed with the thin and harsh sound. I managed gaining back some body and musicality only when I switched to use WASAPI/PCM/down sample to 88kHz setting playing the same files.
  
 Before buying the M8 I have read budget DAC using Opamp for I/V conversion will have trouble dealing with high frequency noise. It looks like it is true with the M8. I would say the M8 output decent sound up to 96kHz playback. Just don't bother with direct DSD or above 176kHz playback because it won't sound any better.


----------



## Joong

borrego said:


> I finally received my M8 two days ago after almost 1 month of waiting for Amazon Japan to ship.
> 
> My initial impression with the M8 is it is a DAC with decent value but sure has its limit. I try playing some SACD rips via foobar ASIO/DSD/352kHz setting and not really impressed with the thin and harsh sound. I managed gaining back some body and musicality only when I switched to use WASAPI/PCM/down sample to 88kHz setting playing the same files.
> 
> Before buying the M8 I have read budget DAC using Opamp for I/V conversion will have trouble dealing with high frequency noise. It looks like it is true with the M8. I would say the M8 output decent sound up to 96kHz playback. Just don't bother with direct DSD or above 176kHz playback because it won't sound any better.


 

 Maybe the power is the weakest link of the dac.
 The low pass filter on the power front may have a limited ability to rejecting incoming noise, and at the same time a limited capability to current supply to a sudden power need due to the source impedance of the source.
 The power quality is usually influenced by the capacitor bank, which has a limitation in size / quality on the small housing space of SMSL M8 dac.
 For example, Audio GD dac and machine emphasizes the power stability for the sound quality, that requires the sea of zero impedance for noise sinking which is of usually capacitor bank in good quality.
 A descent linear power supply can improve the sound quality.


----------



## borrego

joong said:


> Maybe the power is the weakest link of the dac.
> The low pass filter on the power front may have a limited ability to rejecting incoming noise, and at the same time a limited capability to current supply to a sudden power need due to the source impedance of the source.
> The power quality is usually influenced by the capacitor bank, which has a limitation in size / quality on the small housing space of SMSL M8 dac.
> For example, Audio GD dac and machine emphasizes the power stability for the sound quality, that requires the sea of zero impedance for noise sinking which is of usually capacitor bank in good quality.
> A descent linear power supply can improve the sound quality.


 
  
 I actually bought this interesting DC inline power filter from Yahoo auction Japan (http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w117413468) , intending to use with the M8. It is just that the center pole of the M9 power socket is just a tiny bit too big to fit the filter connector. I need to find time doing a adapter cable to use the filter.


----------



## Joong

The DC filter looks good for the application.
 Could you share your experiment and the result with us?


----------



## borrego

joong said:


> The DC filter looks good for the application.
> Could you share your experiment and the result with us?




Sure, I shall share opinion once I have found the power plug/socket of right size.


----------



## kazcou

SMSL sell also a linear power supply, the P1.


----------



## hpamdr

About the japanese DC Filter:
  
 The plug of the M8 is a 2.5/5.5mm the one of your filter is probably 2.1/5.5mm you should get a new plug and soldier it to the output of your filter (2.5mm) and reuse the output plug of your filter or buy a new one(2.1mm) for the M8 power supply out put cable...
 // this is just an EMI filter, it will not add any capacitance nor regulate the medium grade power supply provided with the M8.


----------



## Joong

I have got the M8, and now listening to it.
 Out of box it is surprising. it rivals against much more expensive units that I have had.
 I bought it because I am a believer in the minimalist approach of the audio design like Burson audio, or Nelson Pass amp.
 Those are low in induced noise due to feedback or due to complexity of circuitry.
 In a sense that SMSL does not meet my opinion of minimalist but size of the PCB is minimum so that induced noise can be at least reduced.
 The minimalist for the size....
 Another thinking is that nowadays audio is overly specified in such that any choice might be exceed the recording standard quality.
  
 My thought might justify this purchase and might allow me sell my expensive unit to make some room to move for better audio listening space.
 I hope the weakest link of the dac ( power supplier) replacing might lead to another level of the performance.


----------



## Joong

Stock power supply isn't bad at all, the SQ with USB is very good except some line noises.
This might be the limitation of the power stabilizer inside compact size of the housing.
What we hear is not only the signal but also the ripples of the resvoir of power that is capacitor bank.
Those ripples might cause jitter.

With Gustard U12 coaxial connection the line noises are gone.


----------



## Ektalog

Anyone seen schematics for this baby yet?


----------



## borrego

I bought a pair 2.5mm to 2.1mm, and a 2.1mm to 2.5mm DC power adapter hooking up the Japanese DIY DC line filter to the SMSL M8.

  
 I hear very slight reduction of harshness at 352kHz PCM play back, if not placebo...


----------



## Joong

Looks good.
  
 A small unit might have greater sensitivity to RFI than a larger unit like NFB-1, or NFB-7.
 This is reason why SMSL sells a power supply unit for M8 that has smaller capacity than Teradak.
 In quiet location you can enjoy a good and declared resolution, but in electrically noisy location you might complain against.
  
 The power cable can act as antenna which will be induced in several volts or more that makes ripple on the charge surface on the capacitor bank. That ripple might be modulated into the signal band of your music.
  
 What is the difference from you large unit NFB-1?


----------



## borrego

joong said:


> Looks good.
> 
> What is the difference from you large unit NFB-1?




The M8 is hooked up to my tube amp in office, and the NFB-1 is hooked up to my EPA-007 at home, so I can't directly compare. I think the NFB-1 is still at 1 level better than the M8.

I think the M8 is comparable to my DX90 line out. With a bit better dynamic due to higher line out level.


----------



## Joong

I have had many dacs, and some of them is much more expnsive.
However I could not say noticeable difference.
As is usual case, the larger unit is less senitive to interference due to considerable size of power supply.
This means it is not sensitive to orientation or relative position,or connecting wires..
If you exchange two dacs, then you might know the reality.

For the same reason, M8 might be sensitive to USB cable quality or routing paths.
The coax connection through USB stabilizer like U12 of Gustard or other brand might help.
Usual SQ depends on the source that includes power / cable / noisy neighbours / fianlly DAC.


----------



## chicken beer

I do have a lot to say about this M8 and will write a review whenever I am authorized!
  
 It seems like new members are not allowed to start threads and post reviews.


----------



## Joong

You might write the review in this thread, which might be more influential than a separated review.


----------



## chicken beer

Will do so when I find a time recently! Thanks!


----------



## laughingbuddha

So has anyone tested the P1 Linear Supply with the M8 ??


----------



## laughingbuddha

Would like some info on your line filter


----------



## Joong

They did not show the internal components and circuit, whereas Teradak power supply declares the internals that shows very well designed one.
 Or you can make some voltage stabilizer following low pass filter by attaching shunt capacitor of high value.
 Of course low pass filter has the capacitor but it is not enough for that purpose.
 This DAC with good power source will be not inferior to any dac that has much more price.


----------



## chicken beer

I tried P1+M8+VA2(an amp from SMSL) from a friend who just bought it in China, and tested the combo with a pair of HD 700s and LCD-2f's.
  
 While the sound is very linear though leans to the warmer side a bit. Which I like. I think VA2 + M8 is a great combination and has the 1+1>2 magic. VA2 did a good job as a $100 amp.
  
 More dynamic, and the sound has a noticeable increase in the sound details when M8 was powered by P1 compared to using the direct power supply. However I agree to you that the direct power supply is good enough.
  
 I directly bought M8 after hearing my friends combination (I believe if the M8 is made by a renowned company, it can easily sell at $500+ as I am comparing it to Cambridge Dacmajic Plus and I actually prefer the M8; overall feeling cleaner and delivers details more accurately), while I had too many amps, did not go for the VA2 finally. I currently pair my M8 with a bottlehead crack, ummmm....


----------



## chongky

How good is it? can you compare with some of the Dacs you have, like ODAC?


----------



## chongky

Some photos from the Chinese Baidu site.


----------



## chicken beer

I have a dacmagic plus, a portable audioengine d3, and my computer (which sound card is surprisingly good already even though the amplification not good). M8 beats all of them In my opinion and it delivers the cleanest source signal.


----------



## chongky

I read over at a foreign forum that adding the SMSL P1 power supply improves the performance, but P1 is selling like $140, so this becomes less of a bargain.


----------



## Ustas

chicken beer said:


> I directly bought M8 after hearing my friends combination (I believe if the M8 is made by a renowned company, it can easily sell at $500+ as I am comparing it to Cambridge Dacmajic Plus and I actually prefer the M8; overall feeling cleaner and delivers details more accurately)



With iFi iDAC DSD selling at $190 I think SMSL M8 is priced appropriately... If it was made by Weiss then it would be entirely another matter. :rolleyes: 



chongky said:


> I read over at a foreign forum that adding the SMSL P1 power supply improves the performance, but P1 is selling like $140, so this becomes less of a bargain.


 Thanks for the pictures! You can try 9V battery like that and see how it improves the sound quality. It's about same size as M8 and they would make a great portable setup together.


----------



## chongky

ustas said:


> With iFi iDAC DSD selling at $190 I think SMSL M8 is priced appropriately... If it was made by Weiss then it would be entirely another matter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You're welcome!
  
 SMSL M8 is the cheapest DAC utilising the ES9018 chip, with SNR well above 120 dB. I haven't heard it, but I can imagine it to sound very very clean.


----------



## Joong

ustas said:


> With iFi iDAC DSD selling at $190 I think SMSL M8 is priced appropriately... If it was made by Weiss then it would be entirely another matter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you try them out?
 I ordered similar one for my m8 and SMSL VA2.
 It might be better than SMSL P1 linear power supply.


----------



## Ustas

chongky said:


> SMSL M8 is the cheapest DAC utilising the ES9018 chip, with SNR well above 120 dB. I haven't heard it, but I can imagine it to sound very very clean.



ES9018M2K mobile variant in SMSL M8 is a bit different chip from venerable ESS ES9018 albeit with the similar architecture. Though, it's all go down to implementation not the chip itself and ultimately to the final sound quality and flavor. 




joong said:


> Did you try them out?
> It might be better than SMSL P1 linear power supply.



Have not tried the battery yet, I'm awaiting for my M8 arrival.  

I had a mixed experience with battery powered audio gear, some may sound better with battery power some with a linear power supply. External batteries often use hi-frequency switching devices in their circuits that may actually make audio equipment sound even worse than AC wallwart bricks. Also, many external batteries have constant current flow and that may be not the best solution for some audio applications. Needs a listening test to determine what's better for your particular situation. 




joong said:


> I ordered similar one for my m8 and SMSL VA2.



Be aware that this battery can power only one device at a time.


----------



## Joong

Thanks you for the advice.
 I might prepare low pass filter for that.


----------



## Joong

Battery charger pack cleans the grainy sound.
 There is noticeable change.
  
 I had SMSL VA2 amplifier that drives Krell KSA5 and sounds great.
 Previously the preamp for Krell was Burson Soloist.
 I think SMSL performance is beyond expectation.
 SMSL M8 / VA2 and Ravpower xtreme power pack that feeds M8, drives LCD-2.2 via high impedance jack.
 LCD-2.2 produces clean sound with less grainy sound.
  
 Krell KSA-5 driven by SMSL pair drives He-6s.
 The sound is not bad at all.


----------



## fritobugger

I am pretty happy with this unit.  I have had it now for about 2 weeks.  It works well with all my files.  Fairly easy to use.  Solid, small. 
  
 That said, I really don't hear a clear difference between the different filters.


----------



## Joong

The SMSL M8 and VA-2 are very competitive against those of 1K dollar ranges.
 I recently replaced all those 1K range machine to the SMSLs, with which I am able to hear liquid and smooth sound.
 My main amplifier also has been changed to Chinese clone of Krell KSA5 with some modification, which is surprisingly good to drive He-6.
 The Krell acts as power amplifier driven by VA-2.


----------



## Aplle

The M8 is on Massdrop again. I'm so tempted, just bought a new DAC though.


----------



## borrego

I bought a shielded USB printer cable with magnet rings on both ends to replace the stock SMSL USB cable. The cable is made by Longwell and costs me less than USD2.
  
 The cable gives a smoother sound, with a tiny bit more micro details and less glare. I thing it is well worth it.


----------



## P701

Does the zeros look more round and the 1's more sharper with that cable?


----------



## Joong

Probably yes.
 More important function of this might be to reduce jittering which is phase noise to keep timing more accurately.
 As noise has two characteristics ( magnitude and phase noise), in the digital world the magnitude noise is not the primary concerns but the phase one is the important one.
  
 Another solution can be to use the USB to other pulse information converter like Gustard U12.


----------



## borrego

Good shielding and conforming to the impedance specification is the 2 most important attributes of USB cable. See http://www.gbs-elektronik.de/fileadmin/download/manuals/TN_Choosing_USB_Cable.pdf
  
 I won't spend big money on "Hifi" USB cables. I also prefer thinner gauge USB cable as heavy cable would just stress my notebook's USB socket too much when dangling off it.


----------



## chongky

New review on a French site that sounds pretty enthusiastic.
  
 http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429


----------



## Joong

I need to decide a power supply for M8 and VA2 between Teradak and SMSL p1.
 Could you guys give me some advice?
  
 For M8 alone, Teradak seems attractive for its quality, but with VA2 p1 attractive for dual feeding.
  
 M8 is really amazing already when I consider all my previous Dacs.
 I am afraid to upgrade to some dac upto in 1k range except very exceptional like Yggy of Schiit audio.


----------



## chips666

Hello Joong
 I am new on this forum and own a SMSL M8 dac for a few months now
 Did not find a lot of review on the internet
 I like the sound of the Sabre dac PCM and even better DSD128 with (Hqplayer / up-sampling software)
 Tested several power supplies and also ordered the SMSL P1 but it did not arrive yet
 Impressions:
 1/ M8 with standard supply - thin but the dac was still new (did not try it again)
 2/ Teradak 9 volt power supply from Teralink X2 usb to spdif converter - much better (wider deeper) stage and controlled bass
 3/ 9 volt classic battery -  strange but again thinner sound
 4/ 12 volt Optima Redtop battery with LM317 voltage regulator plus extra parallel capacitor bank - best so far (stage and slam)
  
 Will report further about the P1 after a few weeks of trial
  
 PS: A friend has a Concero HD dac with the same Sabre chip (Sounds fabulous) Hopefully M8 will perform close to this level
  
 Regards
 Ronny


----------



## Joong

Thank you very much Ronny.
 It is really helping to get a right one without spending additional money.
 I might wait until your review has come.
  
 The classic battery might have a little source impedance to limit the required current when M8 wants dynamically to follow instant amount.
  
 I agree that battery with voltage regulator and additional capacitor bank as a CASH POWER for the M8.
 One problem of this is the appearance of the battery with the extra device housed in your handmade box.
  
 I also am looing for some Chinese aluminum box to house all those things.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aluminium-profile-Split-type-of-pure-aluminum-circuit-board-underplating-receiver-aluminum-case-trainborn-underplating150-105/2029152313.html
  
 Could you share with me your circuit around LM317?
  
 Welcome to this thread.


----------



## hpamdr

> Could you share with me your circuit around LM317?


 
 You can give a look to this page http://www.sentex.ca/~mec1995/circ/ps-lm317.html


----------



## Joong

Thanks


----------



## chips666

Hello Joong
  
 The 12 volt battery was already in use for a Altmann Byob amp used in my system
 I attached a ready made PCB LM317 with extra capacitor bank to power the M8
 Something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PCB-Voltage-Regulator-Electronics-Module-LM317-T-AC-DC-Inc-External-Components-/301639140057?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463b1802d9
  
 In theory not the best supply but until now the best sound
 I really like the concept of battery power as a few months ago there was also a Altmann Attraction dac in my system
 The main reason for buying the M8 is the possibility of playing DSD128
 Altmann dac is limited to PCM24/192
  
 The reason to purchase the P1 is because it could be a upgrade
 Power supplies can give different results and it is always handy to have a few options for testing
  
 DHL will deliver tomorrow
 Will update soon
  
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Joong

I am looking forward to seeing your review.
 I ordered SMSL p1 yesterday and will compare with Ravpower Extreme battery charger/pack.


----------



## chips666

P1 arrived today
 First impressions are really good
 Smooth sound, detailed and a refined bass
 12 volt battery gives more slam and sounds faster
 Will test P1 for several days and return to 12 volts to have best image of differences
 For now i think the P1 is the best choise
 Enjoy
 Regards
 Ronny


----------



## Joong

Very encouraging.


----------



## chips666

Update:
 Review SMSL P1
  
 To my taste and likes
 By ear and without any measurements
  
 Highs are airy and crystal clear
 Mids liquid,fluent and smooth
 Bass is detailed and refined
  
 Forget the standard supply or basic 9 volt battery
 Teradak was already an improvement
 12 Volt battery gave more energy and slam
  
 This combo SMSL M8 and P1 really shines
  
 Rgds
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Joong

My SMSL p1 has been arrived in town.
 I will review and poste it.
 The M8 dac is the most significant dac of mine with respect to SQ.
 It sounds grain free in good recorded track and extended into high and low with punch and texture.
 Below is my Krell KSA 5 modified paired with SMSL m8 that drives He-6s.
 It is very interesting to me after all failure with expensive machines like Conductor /Schiit Audio Uber Frost/ Lyr - telefunken / Soloist /OPPO-105/ Marantz PM 6005 / Harman Kardon HK 870 / Rotel amp / Toppings TP6,
 KSA5 with M8 is the best sounding.
 Beyond this recently I tested out 2K USD famous brand one, but I found Gustard U9->SMSL M8->KSA5 (modified) -> He-6s to be the best.


----------



## Joong

The seller sent 200 volt unit of P1, which is ok in Chinese or Oriental market.
 Maybe he does not know North American voltage.
  
*Is there anybody who can inform me of how to fix it?*


----------



## edinaldo12

Unfortunately, I've asked that question directly to SMSL, and they have no plans to release a 120v soon. That's bad.


----------



## fritobugger

edinaldo12 said:


> Unfortunately, I've asked that question directly to SMSL, and they have no plans to release a 120v soon. That's bad.


 
 That is disappointing.  The reason I didn't buy the P1 was because it was not 110V/220V compatible which is one of the main reasons I bought the M8 with the wall wart.


----------



## chongky

joong said:


> The seller sent 200 volt unit of P1, which is ok in Chinese or Oriental market.
> Maybe he does not know North American voltage.
> 
> *Is there anybody who can inform me of how to fix it?*


 
Try a step up/step down voltage converter transformer.


----------



## Joong

Thanks for the information.
 Maybe because of space limitation of p1 for the same size requirement of m8, they might have difficulty winding into 12 or more volt generating coil to feed the voltage regulators when the primary coil is feed 100 volt. I might find a proper transformer  maybe oversized and buy aluminum housing for the transformer and the regulator / filters when the recommended one does not work.
  
 Shown below is a line filter that I quickly made for the alternative solution.


----------



## Joong

Step up/down transformer might be a switching voltage regulator?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110V-to-220V-STEP-Up-Down-VOLTAGE-CONVERTER-100W-Watt-TRANSFORMER-TRAVEL-/331484644049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2e0642d1
  
 Does it generates switching noise that affect other neighboring devices?
 Toroidal transformer based Linear Power Supply is a looking after of usual audiophiles.
  
 Could you guys share your experience with Step-up/down voltage converter as in above link?


----------



## Yoochoobb

A late reply to the post by hpamdr regarding the auto shutdown annoyance:
 I posted a hint plus short review "_How to defeat the auto-off feature of the SMSL M8_*" *on Amazon last month. Holding the power button down for two seconds will toggle this feature, and it is remembered between shutdowns. The M8 will power on if you disconnect/reconnect its power source, but turning off auto-standby renders this unnecessary. I also mentioned a BIOS feature my motherboard has, which can optionally cut power to two specific USB ports for externally powered DACs, such as the SMSL M8.
 I am currently awaiting shipment on an iFi iPower variable output (inc. 9V) "audiophile" AC/DC adapter - not a Linear Power Supply, but supposedly has lower noise than a LPS, according to their website - http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
 It's around $50 from MusicDirect.com, but shipment estimate is 4-6 weeks. No word yet, and tomorrow is the 6-week mark since my order went through. I'll give it another week till I contact them.
 [EDIT: Just got word it shipped today]


----------



## Joong

1 micro volt at what current rating?
  
 Their specification can be tested out with respect to the dynamic current demand of M8.


----------



## fastphones

> Originally Posted by *Joong*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Personally I'd change the mains transformer, just ensure you get the correct type.


----------



## Joong

Thanks for the info.
 But I decided to sell it, which is now on sale in classified in source section.
 I might buy a Teradak linear power supplier, or remain with Battery pack with home made LPF block which gets me good SQ.


----------



## fastphones

I'm planning on buying 3 of these DACs (DSP system) and I'll be buliding my own regulated power supply for them, I'll be trying a few regulators with them to assess the best match as I find DACs unpredictable in this regard, like the Jung Didden Weekes Super regulator is not the best match for all of them, toying with the idea of bypassing/removing the 7805 surface mount regulator, mainly on grounds of reducing noise. theres a new LT reg with current source reference and 27uV noise which looks interesting in a 7 pin TO220 package, there are also interesting surface mount regs but in a 3mm package beyond my skills! I'm kind of hoping a super reg works best as I'll be building them anyway!


----------



## hpamdr

i did used a LT3080 to go from 12v to 9v  with 5x2000 uF25v nichiton just after the toroidal transformer and the diodes. I chosed the soft start implementation with a 900K 0.1% resistor..
 I did not replaced the internal 7805 and the result is much beter than the std 9v adapter .


----------



## Joong

M8 is worthy of being supported with a good power regulator.


----------



## dumpingground

M8 up on massdrop again for $179.  I'm in.


----------



## fritobugger

dumpingground said:


> M8 up on massdrop again for $179.  I'm in.


 
  
 It is a very good unit but I wish it had better documentation and support.  I am glad to have it and use it almost everyday.


----------



## Yakov

Thanks to this thread I'm now a happy camper.
  
  
 Extremely satisfied with the SMSL M8!


----------



## Joong

+1


----------



## eljustinoid

My friend lent me a souped up Audiolab MDAC (the "Premium Toy" upgrade) which sounds absolutely superb.
  
 Having found that the £35 Wosong U308 (Wolfson chip) sounds basically identical to a Cambridge Dacmagic Azur (Wolfson again) I wondered if the SMSL M8 with the Sabre chip would sound as good as the MDAC.
  
 The answer in my opinion is: The M8 costs 35% of the MDAC and gives you 90% of the quality. The MDAC is still better - but the difference is so subtle and I like the sound of the M8 so much that I can't justify spending more than the same again for the small gain you get.
  
 To my ears the M8 sounds better than:
 - Cambridge Dacmagic and Wosong U308 - Wolfson based. Far too neutral and laid back for my liking
 - Xiang Sheng DAC-01A - Cirrus based (BUT makes a great preamp and is an amazing bargain)
 - Arcam irDAC - Burr Brown (very nice DAC but M8 sounds better to me)
  
 For the money the M8 is a no-brainer and a very nice piece of kit. I'm only playing PCM up to 96kHz, I can't comment on DSD sorry.
  
 The M8 is a keeper for now and I'd recommend it without hesitation.


----------



## GeoffW

After 6 hours burn in, I'm liking the M8/VA2 combo more and more. It didn't sound that good at first - very little bass, but that may have been due to my filter selection or lack of burn in. It's detail and tone are getting much better.

 I'm coming from an Asus STX II + Smsl VA2 combo, with LME49990 opamps (huge difference). The STX II has a very good PCM1792a dac. So far, I like the richer tonal quality of the STX a little better than the M8, but the M8 seems more detailed and the tone is getting better and better with the burn in, so we'll see. Also, the 384 upsampling and DSD are great.

 The smsl va-2 is a better headphone amp than the STX- from the specs and price, I would guess it's as good or better than the O2 (which I haven't heard) and may be designed to compete with it. It sounds great with the M8. However, I wonder what the Smsl VA-1 amp sounds like? I can't find much about it on the net, except that it's supposed to be a clone of the Prism Sound Lyra's analog section, which many people seem to rave about. Specs are almost identical between the VA-1 and the Lyra, which are mostly better than the VA-2. Plus it has it's own power supply and a balanced input stage. I may take a chance on it.
  
 Update: Well, that was quick. The M8 is now sounding generally better than my STX II (about 8-9 hrs burn in). I'm really enjoying it - very rich detail without being analytical, nice tone. Looks like it's a keeper.
  
 Update 2: Ok, the M8 sounds great a day later. I was expecting it to sound somewhat dry and cool, but that's not the case. It's light, airy and spacious, and very detailed without being analytical. I wouldn't call it warm, but it's slightly on the warm side of neutral. It's definitely a little more detailed than the STX w/opamps, although the STX is no slouch either. However the STX has has a tonal richness that I can't seem get into the M8 with any amount of EQ-ing. Cellos have a little more guts, brass instruments have a little more weight. There's a thicker emotional intensity to the STX - which may or may not be desirable. So... I guess it comes down to preference. Right now, I'm preferring the airy detail of the M8. Maybe that will change, I don't know. In this comparison, it's important to keep in mind that the STX is competitive only with the LME49990 opamps (and possibly muses01's). With the stock opamps, the M8 wins hands down.
  
 Last update: Be sure to use a good USB cable. I was using a old printer cable, but the cable that came with the M8 is much better. Soundstage is much bigger and quality is much better than STX in every area except tone, in which I like the PCM1792 slightly better. M8 tone still very good though. Will be returning STX, since I don't use other features on it. I can buy a cheaper PCM dac.


----------



## fritobugger

geoffw said:


> After 6 hours burn in, I'm liking the M8/VA2 combo more and more. It didn't sound that good at first - very little bass, but that may have been due to my filter selection or lack of burn in. It's detail and tone are getting much better.
> 
> I'm coming from an Asus STX II + Smsl VA2 combo, with LME49990 opamps (huge difference). The STX II has a very good PCM1792a dac. So far, I like the richer tonal quality of the STX a little better than the M8, but the M8 seems more detailed and the tone is getting better and better with the burn in, so we'll see. Also, the 384 upsampling and DSD are great.
> 
> ...


 
 Still not sure how to get the M8 to upsample.  I tried running everything as DSD but there were occasional clicks and delays in the sound.
  
 The M8 really needs better English language support.


----------



## GeoffW

fritobugger said:


> Still not sure how to get the M8 to upsample.  I tried running everything as DSD but there were occasional clicks and delays in the sound.
> 
> The M8 really needs better English language support.


 
  
 In foobar2000, just use the SoX resampler. You have to actually type in 384000, instead of selecting from the dropdown list.


----------



## Joong

Burson Conductor and Geek Pulse xfi do not justify their tag values.
 I sold Conductor and returned xfi after having listened to M8.


----------



## Ashley2001

What is the latest firmware i am currently using v6.60


----------



## borrego

ashley2001 said:


> What is the latest firmware i am currently using v6.60


 
  
 V6.6 is the latest.


----------



## arhantd

Hi everyone!
  
 I am confused on whether to get a ifi Micro dsd or used concero or this new smsl m8 for a home listening setup.
 I use a PC as a source and have a very neutral setup. I am looking to impart some energy into it.
  
 Anybody who has some experience with either can please give me an opinion.
 Thanks


----------



## fritobugger

arhantd said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I am confused on whether to get a ifi Micro dsd or used concero or this new smsl m8 for a home listening setup.
> I use a PC as a source and have a very neutral setup. I am looking to impart some energy into it.
> ...





If you can afford the iFi Micro DSD then get it. But at half the price the M8 is very good.


----------



## chips666

Hello arhantd
  
 I am very happy with the SMSL M8  but in combo with the SMSL P1 (power supply)
 Never tried the IFI Micro
 Did test the Concero HD (same Sabre dac) from a friend for a couple of weeks
 For me in my home set-up this dac produced the best sound
 Very liquid, easy and smooth sound
 It does not need a separate power supply and accepted every file without a problem
 I found it to expensive
 Good luck with your  search and choice
  
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Threeroofs

Hi Guys, new to this thread, but been reading with great interest for sometime.

I am currently using a M8 and have been pretty happy with it's sound quality, but not sure how to implement upsampling features as mentioned in this thread.

I'm using Foobar for playback.

Can someone talk me through how to do it? Do I need to download SoX software, etc.


----------



## fritobugger

SoX is a Foobar component.  I could not get it to upsample in a meaningful way that would be recognized by the M8.  There are several versions of SoX so maybe I have one that is not compatible.  If you are using Foobar, download SoX from the component page.


----------



## GeoffW

For upsampling, all I did was download SoX resampler, install it, view it, and select the upsampling rate from a drop down menu. Then hit Ok or Apply. If the desired rate is greater than 192k, then it won't be on the drop down list - you actually have to type it in the edit field next to the drop down menu (384000 is what I use). You can verify it is working by checking the sample rate display on the M8. 

I found this pretty easy to do. For me, DSD was a lot harder to get working, even after following all the directions. SoX will interfere with DSD, and had to be turned off. I think DSD sounds great, but I still can't get DSD64 to DSD128 upsampling to work in foobar without hearing too many annoying clicks, pops, and stutters from the upsampling. That's really a shame, because I can hear enough to tell that it sounds glorious. I'm sure the problem is in foobar somewhere, not in the M8. It's upsampling is not really ready for prime time IMO, so I leave it off for now. A lot of my listening is DSD, so its a pain to disable upsampling when playing a DSD track, which sounds much better native than resampled to PCM.


----------



## Threeroofs

Hi, thanks for your replies.

I had a look online yesterday trying to find the correct SoX software to download, but couldn't really fathom out what I need. Any chance of a link to correct application? Thanks


----------



## fritobugger

threeroofs said:


> Hi, thanks for your replies.
> 
> I had a look online yesterday trying to find the correct SoX software to download, but couldn't really fathom out what I need. Any chance of a link to correct application? Thanks




www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=67373


----------



## Ashley2001

Inside P1 Psu
  
 http://imageshack.com/a/img538/33/VddQFa.jpg


----------



## GeoffW

ashley2001 said:


> Inside P1 Psu
> 
> http://imageshack.com/a/img538/33/VddQFa.jpg


 
 Interesting. I ordered one based on the recommendations of that french site a few pages back. They say it takes the M8 to a very high level. I live in the US, so I hope it works with my 110 to 220 adapter. There are some chinese "linear" PSUs on ebay for cheaper, but I decided to stick with smsl based on that recommendation.
  
 Smsl also has a class A amp I haven't seen before - the sAp 8:
 http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=msg&id=1265&


----------



## Threeroofs

Many Thanks, up and running, sounding great.


----------



## ColdFlo

Excuse me, another massdrop, so I just found out about this, and will likely be buying, but skimming through the thread I see some of you have been reading foriegn threads on this dac. If you would be so kind, could you please post links to these threads?.... as there are very few threads about this dac in the west.
  
 Also I think Silver Cable is best for digital signal yes very expensive but if you make your own with silver wire the wire doesnt have to be thick guage and then use aluminum powder for shielding maybe in a surgical tube you could make your own usb cable for cheap if its not too long.  Not sure if ifi USB Power is placebo but sure are some positive reviews about that after to upgrading to sata3 I am convinced cabling matters with digital signal no matter how disapproving the claims of digital infallibility computer weenie mainstream stuck-rutters.
  
 ifi Micro DSD is better than M8?
  
 Anyone got any comparisons of the M8 to the Audio-gd line like the NFB-11.32 and the NFB-15.32?  These seem like the direct competitiors the NFB-11.32 with the fullblown ESS9018S for 325 and NFB-15.32 with dual Wolfson 8740s for 250 then making with combined audio-gd burson style discrete amps better can they be bypassed?  Is the SMSL M8 with a superior amp than the audio-gd combined amp superior overall?  Close in price but overall price and is the audio-gd combined amp worth it?  In the midrange dac shootout I didnt see any audio-gd near the top thought it came down to the Aenido D2 vs Yulong DA8 vs Matrix X-Sabre which is supposedly close to the Ressonance Labs Concero HD which is better than the SMSL M8......... Still no idea where Audio-gd fits in...
  
 Ashley I do that to all my modems and I did it to my monitor psu and its even 3 amps shy of the standard but with a fan the powerbrick never overheats........ might wanna invest in a set of hole saws, a drill press, or a metal lathe tho...


----------



## Ashley2001

Keeping my P1 COOL!
  
 http://imageshack.com/a/img661/8173/hcVTuu.jpg
  
 http://imageshack.com/a/img910/5312/u7eQ6G.jpg


----------



## Joong

My solution for 220v P1 with transformer "Simran AC-100 Step Up/Down Voltage Converter Transformer 110V/220V-100-watt"
  
 Sound quality of the combination is good I think.
 it's 20 dollar solution.


----------



## Lord Raven

Hi Guys,
  
 I just want to ask for a comparison of this DAC with Oppo HA-2, and Oppo 105D as a stand alone DAC? What do you suggest?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Joong

No difference from 105D for me


----------



## Lord Raven

joong said:


> No difference from 105D for me



Do you have both units?  BTW what is the bug which auto turns off this DAC when there is no signal? Is this fixed in new firmware?


----------



## Joong

only 105.
 I have no problem of auto turn off.


----------



## chips666

Hello Lord Raven
  
 Latest Firmware is V6.60
 For auto shut-down bug see post 142
  
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## WannaBeOCer

Hey guys, I just received my SMSL m8 today and am trying to test DSD. When ever I try to play a song it gives me the error

 "Unrecoverable playback error: Sample rate of 44100 Hz not supported by this device"
  
 I've looked at multiple guides but none of them worked on how to set it up in Foobar2000.
  
 I tried the latest sacd 8.3 along with the latest 7.3 ASIO driver.
  
 Edit: How do I check the current firmware version on it? Found it and mine is already on V6.60


----------



## kazcou

Xmos don't have a native asio support for dsd, you need to set it to DoP marker 0x005/0x0fa in asio driver\foo_asio_dsd


----------



## WannaBeOCer

kazcou said:


> Xmos don't have a native asio support for dsd, you need to set it to DoP marker 0x005/0x0fa in asio driver\foo_asio_dsd


 

 When I set it to DoP I just get static but it doesn't give me an error when trying to play it.
  
 Edit: Figured it out, volume has to be set to 100% Thanks for informing me it has to be set to DoP!


----------



## Joong

Two months ago, I bought a Geek Pulse xfi and listened to it and compared to M8.
Beside design and connection instability(it was faulty product), when it was connected and stabilized the sound quality was considerably inferior to M8 despite 3 times expensive.
If you can apply their tag price, then the price can go many more times expensive.

They talked about Femto clock and impedance matching my the same length signal path and so on.
Maybe the poor sound quality was due to insufficient broken-in.
However M8 sounded very good just out of box.

Not only the xfi, but also Burson audio Conductor which was very similar to M8, which did not justify its price and was sold.
This audiophile world is so mysterious that I am now afraid of upgrading to a better DAC after this M8.


----------



## chips666

Finally!
 M8 & P1 combo
 Nothing left to be desired
 Thanks for this info Joong
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Joong

Congratulation!


----------



## Lord Raven

I am still hanging onto the DAC hunt, the drop has finished on the SMSL M8 on the MassDrop. 
  
 If this unit is better than the Geek and Oppo, why people aren't buying it ? 
  
 Is P1 necessary with M8?


----------



## DC Lover

Hi,
 Just got the P1 at Ebay for 70 Pounds Sterling with free shipping. It is on sale right now. There is one more left if you hurry.


----------



## Joong

lord raven said:


> I am still hanging onto the DAC hunt, the drop has finished on the SMSL M8 on the MassDrop.
> 
> If this unit is better than the Geek and Oppo, why people aren't buying it ?
> 
> Is P1 necessary with M8?


 

 I think it is one of international best sellers.
 You can google it.
 Why is it so inexpensive?
 Because you can get a switching power supply with it, and if you are after a stable Linear power supply or good quality power for better performance then you need pay more for it which might be a P1.
 Finally you can add decent headphone amp, then all add-up can reach 500 usd in comparison to notable DACs out there.
 I personally don't understand why there are so many people on GEEK thread there.
 Oppo can be considered as a digital hub, so that it might be justified for the price tag(for a wonderful SACD player).


----------



## Lord Raven

joong said:


> I think it is one of international best sellers.
> You can google it.
> Why is it so inexpensive?
> Because you can get a switching power supply with it, and if you are after a stable Linear power supply or good quality power for better performance then you need pay more for it which might be a P1.
> ...


 
 Thanks for your response Joong, I am still not sure if I should spend money on Chinese stuff.
  
 I was just looking at your profile, you have Oppo 105 and you claim that you have owned/listened to Geek XFi, I think you're the best person to comment on this DAC in comparison with afore mentioned.
  
 Geek guys are so high of the fact that they won some Geek DACs in a campaign that were 3000-4000 (supposedly). I just lost a Geek Pulse Fi in bidding, and I am pissed off, I so want to buy SMSL M8 but I am still not sure just like I was about Pulse Fi after watching videos of Larry Ho. I am so ******* pissed right now!


----------



## Joong

I had a bad memory for this xfi....
 Refunded through Paypal.
  
 Larry Ho claim is not based on science but a certain way of his own, like femto clock, or same length of signal paths.
 However those do not tell the truth because those parameters are way beyond human perception.
 The grainy sound or distortion and such a like is due to some what different mechanism through which all those no intended are perceived.
 The mechanism might be intermodulation due to power ripples or other higher noises band finds its way into signal band ( hearing frequency band) by translation of the frequency via non-linear element.
  
 One sure thing is that M8 is affordable.


----------



## Lord Raven

What a lovely stack you got there Bro, I have a lousy mobile phone DAC that offers a tube amp effect and laptop has beats audio 
  
 The same path length is a ********, unless there is hundreds of meters of difference between to paths. I work on CEsium clocks in telecommunications sector, clock is essential in optical data transmission (SDH), but the way Larry Ho predicts it, it is not. I saw one of his video where one length is straight line and the other is curvey, that is just a marketing gimmick.
  
 I still don't get it, specially where you said, "The grainy sound or distortion and such a like is due to some what different mechanism through which all those no intended are perceived."
  
 All I could get from this part, "The mechanism might be intermodulation due to power ripples or other higher noises band finds its way into signal band ( hearing frequency band) by translation of the frequency via non-linear element.", is that the power supply should be clean. I have a tube amp that is dead quiet, I would like to feed it with a DAC that is dead quieter. Simple AF.
  
  
 Quote:


joong said:


> I had a bad memory for this xfi....
> Refunded through Paypal.
> 
> Larry Ho claim is not based on science but a certain way of his own, like femto clock, or same length of signal paths.
> ...


 
  


joong said:


> I had a bad memory for this xfi....
> Refunded through Paypal.
> 
> Larry Ho claim is not based on science but a certain way of his own, like femto clock, or same length of signal paths.
> ...


----------



## GeoffW

I finally got the P1 power supply, and I can definitely recommend it for the M8 and VA2. It adds even more detail and life-like realism to the sound. The  improvements are immediately noticeable, epecially in the air around instruments, the bass detail, and the overall richness of the sound. The VA2 amp is also improved by the P1. The new sound is very high quality and a joy to listen to. I think I would have to spend a great deal more money to beat this combination (M8 + VA2 + P1), so this is my endgame for now. I live in the US, so I use a 110v to 220v adapter, which works fine. You can get one for about $12 on ebay. The standalone M8 is great too, but the P1 takes it to a new level.


----------



## chips666

M8,V2,P1 combo
 Congratulations !!!


----------



## Joong

+1


----------



## Lord Raven

What is the official SMSL website? This one literally sucks, no description is given with the products. http://smsl-audio.com/
  
 What are the options if I just want a DAC, as I already have a very decent HP Amplifier, I don't need another. Thanks!


----------



## arhantd

Hi
  
 I am still hanging around to finalize a USB dac for my PC based stereo setup.
 My budget is around $500 and the two clear options i have shortlisted are:
  
 1. Ifi Micro iDSD
 2. SMSL M8 with the P1 power supply
  
 It is going to be a blind buy for me so i just want to know what people here suggest.
 My system sounds fairly neutral right now, i would want to impart some energy to it.
  
 Is there anybody here who has heard the iFi sound and the M8 both, any suggestions or insights are welcome!
  
 Thanks


----------



## chongky

I've a question... I've recently received the SMSL M8 (after weeks of waiting) via Massdrop. Now I'm using the USB and a laptop for all my playback. The unit hasn't fully broken in yet but I'm curious...are there any differences between the sound thru USB and through coaxial? Because to me thru USB the unit sounds a little "drier" than what I'm accustomed to from my ODAC...which is rather surprising since some claim to hear more air around the instruments.
  
 I don't own the P1 yet so all these listenings are done using the stock adapter.


----------



## Joong

I usually avoid to use USB port, which is through Gustard U12 that converts to coax for cleaning(?) the usb noise.
 USB source might be widely different from to one source to another, and also dependent of cable.


----------



## Ustas

chongky said:


> I've a question... I've recently received the SMSL M8 (after weeks of waiting) via Massdrop. Now I'm using the USB and a laptop for all my playback. The unit hasn't fully broken in yet but I'm curious...are there any differences between the sound thru USB and through coaxial? Because to me thru USB the unit sounds a little "drier" than what I'm accustomed to from my ODAC...which is rather surprising since some claim to hear more air around the instruments.
> 
> I don't own the P1 yet so all these listenings are done using the stock adapter.




SMSL M8 has poorly isolated USB input for power and ground. The USB power going from computer to DAC is usually highly contaminated with hi-freq noise and that could be especially bad with laptops.

One solution is to use high quality USB cable with lifted ground on one end, though that may be expensive, or you may try to modify a regular USB cable like in the picture below and see if this makes any difference. You will need to isolate the pin #1 (Vcc) first and listen, then pin #4 (Ground) listen again, and vice versa.


----------



## chongky

Wow, a very detailed response. I'll try this solution when I have time. Very much appreciated! Thanks also to Joong for his response.
  
 Maybe I'll first get a coaxial cable to hear if there are major differences between M8's USB and coaxial.
  
  


> SMSL M8 has poorly isolated USB input for power and ground. The USB power going from computer to DAC is usually highly contaminated with hi-freq noise and that could be especially bad with laptops.





> One solution is to use high quality USB cable with lifted ground on one end, though that may be expensive, or you may try to modify a regular USB cable like in the picture below and see if this makes any difference. You will need to isolate the pin #1 (Vcc) first and listen, then pin #4 (Ground) listen again, and vice versa.


 
  
 Just curious, how much would such a high quality USB cable cost? Also, does it matter that the M8 is not powered thru USB?


----------



## Ustas

chongky said:
			
		

> .
> Just curious, how much would such a high quality USB cable cost? Also, does it matter that the M8 is not powered thru USB?




Audiophile cable manufactures may charge outrageous amounts for their USB cords. Whether there any improvements compared with quality made regular USB cable is another question.
One cable manufacturer that I trust is Wireworld they make high quality flat USB cords with separated and isolated power conductor that will outperform much more expensive "audiophile" USB cables. Short Ultraviolet 7 can be had under $60 and Starlight 7 under $100. 

My and other folks experience (and also scientific research from Burr-Brown labs) shows that benefits of isolated power and ground conductors in USB cable and the length of the cord itself is the most important factors affecting sound quality. 
Burr-Brown (TI) researches have found that digital jitter in USB interface increases dramatically with the length of the cord, so they recommend to keep it as short as possible. Fact is I've tested in my audio system a few audiophile USB cords costing from $80 to $350 and 6" short USB cable from Belkin ($5) outperformed them all. 

In the case of SMSL M8 isolated power and ground USB cable is not required since USB power input is not active in the circuit and going the way I described in my previous post is preferable in my opinion. 


BTW, the picture of the modified USB A connector is not mine - I've lifted it from another forum, on my cables I usually just pull out connector pins with needle nose pliers.  (Don't try this on yours before knowing what your doing! experiment first with reversible tricks. )


----------



## chongky

Bought two cables, a cheap $3 USB cable supposed with "double noise shield conductor" and a regular coaxial cable. There definitely _is_ a difference between music thru the stock SMSL USB cable and thru the coaxial. The coaxial sounds warmer, has better soundstage and more solid imaging. When I switched the stock SMSL USB cable with the newer one, there is a difference as well (believe I could tell them apart in a blind test). The soundstage improved, the dryness is almost gone, though the sound isn't as warm (more neutral?) than thru the coaxial.


----------



## chongky

ustas said:


> One solution is to use high quality USB cable with lifted ground on one end, though that may be expensive, or you may try to modify a regular USB cable like in the picture below and see if this makes any difference. You will need to isolate the pin #1 (Vcc) first and listen, then pin #4 (Ground) listen again, and vice versa.


 
  
 I'm a bit confused, since you lifted this picture. I have no background in audio science (almost a complete noob) - how do you isolate the USB pin #1 and the pin #4? Is it by applying Scotch tape as the picture stated? I did that and wasn't sure I hear a difference - though there seemed to be a tad better transparency, it might be placebo.
  
 Would it be less trouble to just purchase a 6" Belkin USB cable you recommended?


----------



## Ustas

chongky said:


> I'm a bit confused, since you lifted this picture. I have no background in audio science (almost a complete noob) - how do you isolate the USB pin #1 and the pin #4? Is it by applying Scotch tape as the picture stated? I did that and wasn't sure I hear a difference - though there seemed to be a tad better transparency, it might be placebo.
> 
> Would it be less trouble to just purchase a 6" Belkin USB cable you recommended?




I posted this picture as it clearly illustrates what pin to isolate. You did right with that Scotch tape.  
If there's no difference in sound then SMSL M8 most likely omits ground and power lugs in its female USB port receptacle or they are not connected to the board. Then the cause of an inferior sound could be in the USB circuit of your laptop itself. 
In S/PDIF interface digital signal undergoes two additional conversions that's why straight USB-to-USB is usually preferable given all other variables being equal. Anyways, if coaxial connection sounds better use it instead of USB.




> Would it be less trouble to just purchase a 6" Belkin USB cable you recommended?




Sure, Belkin cable is very good thou for your desktop setup it may be a bit short. I know Monoprice has well built and inexpensive USB cables, just remember to use the shortest cable possible that fits your application if you'll decide to go this route...


----------



## chongky

Thanks for all the clarifications. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thing is I've ripped almost all my CDs onto a hard disk and I find it a chore nowadays to search out and load physical CDs. The USB cable I bought sounds quite good. (it's the shortest I can find and 2 meters btw) I'll wait for my SMSL M8 to burn in and decide if I'm forking out another $150 for the P1.


----------



## Guillaume57

Hi, I'm new here and just bought and received the SMSL M8 after reading the glowing reports. I've hooked it up to my laptop running Windows7 and installed the driver. I'm trying to play Hi-res files through Foobar 2000 and it sounds great but everything reads 44.1kz in the front window on the M8 although Foobar says it is playing 24/96 files?
 Is this a problem with the machine or am I not doing something right.
 Thanks for any help and sorry if this is a dumb question.


----------



## Natslx

Set it in your device settings in windows.


----------



## kazcou

You are using Asio or Wasapi output plugin, right ?


----------



## Guillaume57

Thanks for your reply. The unit is working and I'm getting good quality sound but the unit says it is playing 44.1 kz files, while Foobar says it is playing Hi-Res files. I don't even have 44.1 files on the computer. So is Windows somehow down sampling them before they get to the M8?


----------



## Guillaume57

Thanks for your reply, I'm not sure, I installed both the asio and wasapi in Foobar but not sure if I need to do anything else besides that.


----------



## hpamdr

If you want to play through usb:
 On foobar, you have to setup the Playback/Output to "ASIO:XMOS ...." on the preferences page. (CTRL+P)
  
 if you want to play dsd file, you have to setup foo_dsd_asio plugin and link it to the XMOS driver....


----------



## Guillaume57

Thanks so much. I had only gone into the "SACD" flag below "Output" as I got  "pick a subtext" when clicking on other main tabs in the "preferences"-tools section..doh....
  
 Anyway, it's all sorted. As soon as I clicked on the main "output" tab I saw the settings were all wrong. I put in XMOS Event  Wasapi and it showed up as 96kz in the M8 right away. Sounds great.
  
 Is ASIO better than Wasapi for Windows7? Do I have to change the settings again when playing 192khz files or does Foobar handle that automatically?
  
 Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.


----------



## hpamdr

guillaume57 said:


> Thanks so much. I had only gone into the "SACD" flag below "Output" as I got  "pick a subtext" when clicking on other main tabs in the "preferences"-tools section..doh....
> 
> ... Is ASIO better than Wasapi for Windows7? Do I have to change the settings again when playing 192khz files or does Foobar handle that automatically?
> 
> ...


 
 Asio is normally the most direct way to communicate with the dac and the sound should be better if the driver do not crash.  (this is what i use because i have DSD files i play directly using foo_dsd_asio output).
 WASAPI in *exclusive mode* is in other hand very well handled by the OS and seem to be a safe way to go on win7. Normally all bitrate should be handled without any changes in foobar.


----------



## DC Lover

Just got my M8 Dac and also need to inquire about its settings. Could you help me on this?
  
 In Windows 7, when I click on the Xmos playback device under the Sound option then go to Properties-Advanced tab, the maximum format that can be obtained is 24 bit-48000 hz. Also, when selecting the XMOS Driver in Foobar, I get the error message"Unrecoverable playback error: Sample rate of 96000 Hz not supported by this device" when playing 24/96 files.


----------



## DC Lover

Just got my answer. My USB cable is too long. Switched to the supplied USB and 24/96 files are now playing smoothly.


----------



## pasa

I can't get the new firmware too load. Here is the error code TUSBAUDIO_GetDfuStatus: Function failed with error code 0xEE000003
 Thanks in advance for any opinions.
  
 Running Windows 8, JRMC


----------



## Joong

Heat problem of P1, a solution 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 The heat sink for old Pentium processor finds its new life as a crown of SMSL p1.


----------



## chips666

Hello
 I know it has been discussed before on this tread
 The auto shut-down function of this SMSL M8 dac and the possibility to avoid this
 Today i updated to the latest firmware v6.6.0
 So i tried to change the auto shut-down function by pushing the power button for 2 seconds and longer
 Tried it during on and off switching but it does not work
 Am i missing something or not performing correctly ?
 Thanks for feedback
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Ustas

Hmm... interesting. 
Is anybody else has this problem? I'll hold on FW updates just in case.


----------



## fritobugger

chips666 said:


> Hello
> I know it has been discussed before on this tread
> The auto shut-down function of this SMSL M8 dac and the possibility to avoid this
> Today i updated to the latest firmware v6.6.0
> ...


 
  
 Edit:  Bad info deleted.


----------



## Ustas

fritobugger said:


> chips666 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello
> ...



are your sure? it's the power button on mine.


----------



## fritobugger

ustas said:


> are your sure? it's the power button on mine.


 
 I was sure but now I am not.  I will confirm when I get home.


----------



## fritobugger

fritobugger said:


> I was sure but now I am not.  I will confirm when I get home.




I was wrong. On mobile now. Will try to delete tomorrow.


----------



## chips666

Hello
 Anyone
 How does the auto shut down function can be switched off ?
 I keep on pushing the power button for seconds but it does not work
 What am i missing here ?
 Thanks for feedback
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## chongky

chips666 said:


> Hello
> Anyone
> How does the auto shut down function can be switched off ?
> I keep on pushing the power button for seconds but it does not work
> ...


 
 Hold the left power button down for about 5 seconds and toggle to AUTO STANDBY OFF. It works for me.


----------



## chongky

Ebay seller Pericross is accepting Best Offer bids for SMSL P1 power supply. I bid US$100 and got accepted. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you are keen on the P1 you can try bidding (hint lower than $100). Seems like a reputable seller, with 100% positive feedbacks.
  
 Disclaimer: I am not related to Pericross. Just a buyer.


----------



## Cukedaddy

I can vouch for that dealer. I just bought an SMSL M6 from them and it was on sale for $136...all went well, recieved it yesterday.


----------



## Katji

joong said:


> Heat problem of P1, a solution
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How did you attach it? i'm wondering about the usual thermal paste but i guess it's not applicable here.

 hehheh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's big. i vaguely remember seeing someone installed a fan, but that's a bit of a mission and introduces some more electrical activity there.


----------



## Joong

Thermal paste alone, it is sticky enough....
 You might apply some glue along edges for better fix.


----------



## Ustas

Is it running so hot it really requires outside cooling?


----------



## Katji

i don't know. i don't know why it would. i saw the pics again - Joong's with the big Pentium heatsink and another with a fan - and i'm going to go ahead and order the M8 and P1, so i asked how the heatsink was put on. Simple and no electrical involvement of the fan. i searched ebay for Pentium heatsink - none like this one, many that would not be suitable.
 PS: Maybe just some ventilation, some holes, would be enough.


----------



## Joong

ustas said:


> Is it running so hot it really requires outside cooling?


 

 It is not so hot. Maybe 50 C Degrees which does not require any heat sink but if you have one like simple ones as mine, then why not?
 One thing is certain, P1 is good enough which is fed by 200 volt by simple transformer whose cost is 20 USD.
 Together with U12 M8 makes me delay an upgrade to a mediocre DAC around 1K.
 Currently M8 is feeding my KSA-5, that sounds amazing:


----------



## Katji

Yes, postpone it, wait and see what comes.
 KSA-5 ? Looks interesting, alternative, i will google. it looks like a DJ amp.
  
 Quote:


> One thing is certain, P1 is good enough which is fed by 200 volt by simple transformer whose cost is 20 USD.


 
 So we buy this little alloy box for $100+ ?
 i was thinking that it would be good to have a powerful PS that can supply different voltages, versatile...because so many of these small Chinese amps have black plastic PS like laptop transformers/chargers, like the SMSL amp that uses 36V.  But i have no product, no solution, so i must get the P1 now.
  


> It is not so hot. Maybe 50 C Degrees which does not require any heat sink but if you have one like simple ones as mine, then why not?


 
 Yes, i thought so. And you like the crown. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  i like it, i must search more, find some place that does scrap computers.


----------



## Joong

It's Krell KSA5 Chinese clone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I ordered the PCB only and assembled it with unused case.


----------



## Katji

Yes, i see. First google result was a head-fi thread - he bought one that was built and had to replace the volume control, the power switch, and the speaker posts. Just a bad story. _But_, that led to me looking at Emotiva mini-x and it looks like a suitable amp for me. (i had seen Emotiva mentioned often but i imagined it was some expensive valve amp - well, i see they do make expensive amps too.) (i have been trying to get a good vintage amp, but no luck, and i just don't feel to buy some Cambridge Audio or NAD for $400-500.  ...and yesterday i saw something that i think is a turning point for me, i think of spending a chunk of my retirement funds...i kept the page open just to look at it. A work of art. All hard-wired.  Leben CS-300XS )


----------



## Joong

Emotiva mini X is not recommended path if I were you.
 I had the amp that was reasonable entry level to a planar headphone but is not good enough to mid or higher level.
 You can take H10 amp for better result.
 I sold H10 because I have He-6s which require high power that is met by KSA-6 with modified power section.


----------



## Shredder11

Hi new member here and I decided to sign up after following this M8 topic for a week or so, plus other headphone topics. I noticed in one thread someone mentioning that the Ebay seller senyuanbusiness accepted a good price on the P1 power supply.  With this in mind I just attempted a few Best Offers on his SMSL M8 and all were declined.  I worked out the P1 accepted offer was approx 18% less than the Buy It Now price, so I tried this percentage with the M8.  This failed so I then tried £120 and finally £130 (yes I am in the UK).  So has anyone here managed to get a Best Offer price accepted by senyuanbusiness?
  
 I'm wanting to buy this as my current Edirol UA-101 USB 2.0 audio interface, does not work in DSD DFF SACD mode in foobar2000.  It was a £400 audio interface back in 2005 and goes to 24-bit 192KHz PCM, and sounds the business for what it is meant for, e.g. professional music production sequencing.  I'm also using some hand-made British active monitors, the Quested S7 which I got in 2005 and they deliver around 400W RMS, plus are very accurate sounding with tight transparent low frequencies and crisp delicate but not harsh highs;  most impressive to me is the mids which do not exhibit any boxiness or artificial gain bumps.  The old Abbey Road studios used Quested monitors as well, so not too shabby!  Regarding the audio interface I have, if I could afford it I would go for the RME Fireface UFX at around £1300!!  I also have a friend with a Cambridge Audio Azur 650BD and that sounds good, although not sure how that compares with the DAC Magic Plus which I had been considering.


----------



## kyamei

I just ordered an m8 from senyuan a few days ago @ $200. It's enroute now. (Didn't want to wait for massdrop)


----------



## Shredder11

$200 well that means that when I bid £130, I was a mere £1 ($2) short!  Damn I now have to wait until Monday before the listing ends, and I can make a fresh offer once it is relisted.


----------



## Katji

i haven't seen any as high as $200.
 senyuanbusiness...i think i looked, after seeing it mentioned here - i think it's the one that 2 or 3 items of the SMSL range, and the rest was all phone covers and stuff. No big thing but i would prefer one of those that specializes in audio, just in case i get a DOA or something.
 Then i procrastinated again because the SMSL sellers i found didn't have very good ratings. The seller with the lowest price on the M8 doesn't list the P1, so a decision to make there too.


----------



## Shredder11

I have no idea who is deemed a safe or recommended Ebay seller to buy from, apart from senyuanbusiness.  A quick look at the recent sold prices on Ebay shows the cheapest at £115 / $175 from pericross.  The most expensive was £181 / $276 from a German seller.  Within that search I found someone from my local town selling a 'used once' M8 for £115 / $175.
  
 So if anyone can give some info and feedback on their experiences with the various Ebay sellers, that would be very helpful.


----------



## Cukedaddy

I just recieved an SMSL M6 from Pericross for $136...Transaction took about 2 weeks for it to get to me in the states.


----------



## kyamei

Oh wow, too bad pericross won't ship to Hawaii.


----------



## chongky

I received my P1 from Ebay dealer Pericross a few days ago. I paid US$100 for it (Best Offer).


----------



## portablesq

So I bought one of these from Massdrop and have some time before it arrives.  My purpose for this is to install a permanent solution into my automobile.
  
 If I decide to go the route of buying the P1 to partner with it (I live in the USA), do you see any problem if I buy a 110v to 220v adapter for the P1 and then plug the P1 into a power inverter that is installed in the car (such as this model)?
  
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/powerbright-12v-dc-to-ac-1100-watt-power-inverter-pw1100-12/10271229-P?searchTerm=power+inverter
  
 My intentions are to go DAP -> REGEN -> SMSL M8 -> Headunit AUX Input
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Shredder11

It says Pericross is in the USA but the items are in China, so I guess it will also take approx two weeks to get to me if I order from them.  I'm thinking of buying the M8 + VA-2 + P1 and I notice some sellers are doing bundles of them;  they are also including some W6 braided RCA phono cables in the deal for £299 / $454.  If the W6 cables are worth bothering with I might put in an offer, plus Ebay have a 10% discount on orders over £100 at the moment.


----------



## Shredder11

Well I decided to send pericross a best offer of £255 / $387 for Ebay item number *321829366620 *and it was accepted first time, plus I used my Ebay 10% discount code making the total *£229 / $348*.  So I have paid and look forward to using it once it arrives.  Finally I can play my SACD albums correctly without converting to PCM!   I also have plenty of DVD-A and HDtracks albums which will benefit from the better DAC.  I just hope all the comments about the M8 being much better than the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus are right;  we shall see...


----------



## Cukedaddy

Congrats and enjoy.


----------



## DjBobby

It would be interesting to hear difference between M6 and M8. Anyone?


----------



## Katji

djbobby said:


> It would be interesting to hear difference between M6 and M8. Anyone?


 
 iirc, i read one or 2 reviews of the M6 and not positive. There is one other SMSL DAC that has the same Sabre DAC chip, though - i can't remember whether it's M6 or Sanskrit...but there's more to it than just the decoder chip; only M8 has had such positive reviews. Including the one or 2 here that found that the P1 PSU made a big improvement. (At the beginning of this thread, iirc.)

 PS:  ebay seller pericross has only 2 items listed now - SMSL Q5 amp, with or without power supply - although search forthat item number (the bundle) still brings it up, 9 available. But i don't want the VA2...at least not until i go through enough reading reviews and so on about headphone amps.


----------



## Joong




----------



## Cukedaddy

katji said:


> iirc, i read one or 2 reviews of the M6 and not positive. There is one other SMSL DAC that has the same Sabre DAC chip, though - i can't remember whether it's M6 or Sanskrit...but there's more to it than just the decoder chip; only M8 has had such positive reviews. Including the one or 2 here that found that the P1 PSU made a big improvement. (At the beginning of this thread, iirc.)
> 
> 
> PS:  ebay seller pericross has only 2 items listed now - SMSL Q5 amp, with or without power supply - although search forthat item number (the bundle) still brings it up, 9 available. But i don't want the VA2...at least not until i go through enough reading reviews and so on about headphone amps.


I know the M6 isn't a sabre dac. I can't recall what chip it uses though. I don't know where you read the reviews for it... I'd like to see them... But I love my M6...especially the fact that it has a built-in headphone amp.


----------



## DjBobby

cukedaddy said:


> I know the M6 isn't a sabre dac. I can't recall what chip it uses though. I don't know where you read the reviews for it... I'd like to see them... But I love my M6...especially the fact that it has a built-in headphone amp.


 

 M6 uses AK4390EF, M8 uses ES9018. Their parallel line Sanskrit in the latest version uses WM8740 and in Sanskrit PRO-B Ak4490EQ. Four different DAC models using 4 different chips, so it's hard to judge which is their overall philosophy.


----------



## chips666

Nice picture Joong
 What is your set-up now?
 Love my M8 sound
 Rgds
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Cukedaddy

djbobby said:


> It would be interesting to hear difference between M6 and M8. Anyone?


 
 I would also...it's hard to find someone who has an M6 let alone both M6 and M8.


----------



## Joong

chips666 said:


> Nice picture Joong
> What is your set-up now?
> Love my M8 sound
> Rgds
> ...



Now Foobar2000 - Gustard U12 - M8 - Soloist - Lcd2.2.
Glad to see you enjoy M8.


----------



## DjBobby

joong said:


> Now Foobar2000 - Gustard U12 - M8 - Soloist - Lcd2.2.
> Glad to see you enjoy M8.


 

 Any reason using Gustard U12 and M8 together? I thought M8 has DSD capabilities too?


----------



## hpamdr

U12 is used as USB interface and M8 is connected using Coax and only used a DAC (not sure that you keep DOP 64 with M8). U12 is very stable and much more isolated than the standard USB interface of the M8. But U12 pairs better with X12 dac using i2s   The Wyrd can probably cleanup usb but did not try myself.
 Keep in mind that the best improvement for M8 is to use a better power supply (P1 is very good) you can also go for the DIY stuff  building a linear power supply with a super/good regulator...


----------



## Joong

Agree


----------



## chongky

Anyone tried the SMSL X-USB? $90.
  
 http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=msg&id=1389&


----------



## chips666

http://www.qobuz.com/be-nl/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528
  
 Hello
 At Qobuz.com they like this little dac
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## fritobugger

chips666 said:


> http://www.qobuz.com/be-nl/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528
> 
> Hello
> At Qobuz.com they like this little dac
> ...




It figures that the day I order the P1 is the day a review says it makes no difference.


----------



## chips666

Hello Fritobugger
 It does make a difference
 See my previous posts
 Tried standard power supply, standard 9 volt battery, 12 volt Optima red top battery with LM317 regulator and capacitor bank, Teradac U9 power supply and the P1
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## Katji

And the SMSL P1 is the most practical.

 What are these filters mentioned in that review?  Are they components that can be swapped on a circuit board? Extra components in the box?
 Why don't they - these reviews like this with so many pics of the circuit boards - show them, where they are plugged in?
 i don't remember reading anything about it, i just vaguely remember something i was looking at had something like that, i can't remember whether itwas the M8 or something else. And so far i remember, no-one here has spoken about it.


----------



## chips666

Hello
 They are talking about the fact that you can select  different filters by pushing the right hand button  a while longer
 Have fun
 Enjoy
 Ronny


----------



## fritobugger

chips666 said:


> Hello Fritobugger
> It does make a difference
> See my previous posts
> Tried standard power supply, standard 9 volt battery, 12 volt Optima red top battery with LM317 regulator and capacitor bank, Teradac U9 power supply and the P1
> ...




It was only $90 so not a big deal. Let you know how it goes.


----------



## fritobugger

fritobugger said:


> It was only $90 so not a big deal. Let you know how it goes.




Wow. The P1 is a small but hefty bit of kit. Not much time to A/B it with the standard power supply but at first glance I don't hear a difference.


----------



## Katji

Small but hefty - you mean it weighs noticeably more than the standard PS? (Which looks like a typical laptop etc PS/charger.)


----------



## Shredder11

I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of my M8 setup.....my shipping info said it had left China three days ago on route to Great Britain, or England as we know it.  Might be at my doorstep sometime this week!  While I have been waiting I have been looking at a headphone upgrade, and the AKG K702 looks very promising judging by the comments of people on here and elsewhere.  I'm feeling ready to pull the trigger on those as well!


----------



## hpamdr

shredder11 said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of my M8 setup.....my shipping info said it had left China three days ago on route to Great Britain, or England as we know it.  Might be at my doorstep sometime this week!  While I have been waiting I have been looking at a headphone upgrade, and the AKG K702 looks very promising judging by the comments of people on here and elsewhere.  I'm feeling ready to pull the trigger on those as well!


 
 Welcome to M8 owner club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I would suggest you to go for a K712 instead of get a deal at massdrop for the KXX instead !


----------



## fritobugger

katji said:


> Small but hefty - you mean it weighs noticeably more than the standard PS? (Which looks like a typical laptop etc PS/charger.)




Yes, the P1 itself is very heavy. It must have massive transformer inside. It has the same footprint as the M8 but is about twice as tall. While the M8 is surprisingly light, the P1 is surprisingly heavy.


----------



## fritobugger

hpamdr said:


> Welcome to M8 owner club
> 
> I would suggest you to go for a K712 instead of get a deal at massdrop for the KXX instead !




The K7XX just went back on Massdrop.


----------



## Joong

Try LCD2.2 instead of AKG7XXX.
 These phones are in different league.
 I think that if we started with low level then we would have realized that we should started with a bit higher level like LCD2.2.
  
 When I retrospect through the years of headfier activities, I conclude that I should have started with higher gear from the start.
  
 My entry to headfier was AKG702, which was considerably lower level than LCD2.2, and I had invested lot of money for unnecessary ladder stepping towards LCD2.2 and He-6.


----------



## Joong

Another lesson I have got is that we should invest on amplifier side more than DACs, that are too rapidly moving.
 Small watt amplifier with good quality sound signature can be a good start, which can be amplified with power amplifier if necessary if you have low efficiency headphones, like he-6s.
 I had a soloist for core amplifier that feeds KSA-5 or TA2022( only use as power amp not integrated amp due to the built-in lower quality of preamping on the TA2022 based amp) power amp to meet the demand of he-6s or LCD2.2s.
  
 Shown below is my TA2022 ( that costs me only 30 dollars because I had already transformer and the housing), which has been used as a power amp only even though I implemented full functional amp.
  
 This home made amp with M8 and soloist is better than any amp I have tried.
 On the far left side is TA2022 T amp that drives LCD2.2 and He-6.






, it is amazing that it defeated Marantz PM8003 and KSA-5 amps that I have had.


----------



## Shredder11

hpamdr said:


> Welcome to M8 owner club
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The drop price for the K702 is $200 + $25 shipping to the UK, which makes it more expensive than ordering from my usual retailers.  The K712 is approx $381 (£251) which costs more, but yeah might be a consideration providing they offer something extra.


----------



## UNOE

Just got my M8.  Really don't understand what the DSD filters do.  Are these filters for safety or sound signature ?


----------



## hpamdr

The filter are "oversampling filter" the M8 propose 2X3 filters.
  
 I personally use most of the time the Mini mode for PCM, and the 60K cut
  
 PCM mode : (2) Slow, (1) fast roll-off,
                        (4) mini (minimum phase)
  
 DSD mode :
                       (6) 50, 60, (5)70  cut Off
  
 Get a look Here http://www.auralic.com/download/flexible_filter_mode.pdf, the number (n) are the corresponding filter of the M8/Auralic...
 You can also get some explanation and impression during the review of the Vega ( http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/auralic5/1.html )
  
 The Auralic ismore advanced but the pinciples remain the same,


----------



## Shredder11

Does the SMSL P1 power supply have enough grunt to power the AKG K712 Pro headphones?


----------



## hpamdr

shredder11 said:


> Does the SMSL P1 power supply have enough grunt to power the AKG K712 Pro headphones?


 

 P1 is only a power supply not an amplifier.
 P1 can anyhow, power both  M8 and an additional VA2 amplifier the package will be P1 + M8 + VA2 and this will  juice your K712 but not sure if the VA2 is really the best amp for the K712. 
 // The Massdrop Kxx is closer to the 712 than to the K702 for 199 bukcs plus shipping.


----------



## Shredder11

I guess the M8 + P1 + VA2 + W6 bundle I have ordered will maybe sound very clean and digital, plus the AKG headphones might benefit from this.  I am also aware of the various valve headphone amps and I happen to own an ART DPS II digital valve preamp.  So if I wanted to 'warm' up the sound I could maybe feed the output from the DAC through this and back into the headphone amp.  http://artproaudio.com/art_products/signal_processing/multi_channel_tube_preamps/product/dps_ii/


----------



## hpamdr

You have to decide what you prefer, Tube or Solid State, even if you want both you should not add a preamplifier in the middle.
 If you go for tube, go for tube DarkVoice, Cavali Liquid Carbon, LittleDot, Crack, SEX, Elise, Woo Audio.... hundreds of those amp are floating around at any price.
  
 The DSP II have already an internal DAC and is probably more suitable as a plain preamplifier (What most of the headphone amplifier do also...)


----------



## fritobugger

hpamdr said:


> P1 is only a power supply not an amplifier.
> P1 can anyhow, power both  M8 and an additional VA2 amplifier the package will be P1 + M8 + VA2 and this will  juice your K712 but not sure if the VA2 is really the best amp for the K712.
> // The Massdrop Kxx is closer to the 712 than to the K702 for 199 bukcs plus shipping.


 
  
 The Gustard H10 is a good choice for the K712/K7xx.  I like it with the M8.


----------



## Shredder11

Using my ART DPS II is only a suggestion at this point as I may be happy with the AKG sound as it is.  If I did use the DPS II it would be via the analogue connections because the digital ones only reach 96KHz (the top model had 192KHz).  I would only use if for a little gentle tube saturation and only if absolutely necessary.  However I think I will pass on feeding it through my Marshall JMP-1 valve preamp! Haha!


----------



## Shredder11

Woohoo!!  My *M8* kit has finally arrived a couple of hours ago and to begin with I have simply plugged it straight into my *Synology DS415+ NAS*, which has native support for DSD DFF DXD DSF files etc, although it does not handle ISO image files, so the DFF files need to be extracted;  I use a small command line application called Scarlet Book http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1370915/Audio/scarletbook.rar.  The NAS has picked it up as a *xCORE USB Audio 2.0 - XMOS Ltd* audio device and it correctly reports the frequencies of whatever is playing, e.g. 352.8KHz.  I've only plugged in my headphones so far as I was so eager to hear it, and it sounds very smooth, full, open and not at all cold.  So no need to mess around sending the sound through any valve amps


----------



## Joong

How do you like your M8?


----------



## Shredder11

I was actually feeling a bit ill that day it arrived and I feel substantially more ill now, so hopefully once I am better I will start listening to it properly.  I have only listened to it through my 25 year old Sony MDR-CD333 headphones and not even through my Quested S7 active reference monitors.  Incidentally these monitors are about £300 more than they were when I bought mine back in 2005, when the price was £1200;  I thought prices came down usually!  Added to this I attempted to improve my old Soundcraft mixer with a better PSU socket and plug, but somehow I have damaged the whole mixer.  It powered up normally but then I could smell burning from the PCB, plus the fault I was trying to improve was worse.  So I have ordered a new Mackie Onyx mixer along with some AKG K712 Pro headphones, and a few pairs of balanced cables.  One of the things I dislike about my new SMSL M8 is the lack of outputs, especially balanced connections.  There is only one pair of stereo outputs to feed my powered active monitors and also my VA2 headphone amp, so I either use the headphone output on my new Mackie mixer, or I deploy a cable patching device to route the audio to my Quested monitors or my VA2.
  
 So far though I am very happy with the M8 bundle and surprisingly I have noticed a huge improvement when listening to 24/192 vinyl LP rips.  I never thought I would ever re-kindle my love of the sound of vinyl, but now these rips sound smooth, detailed and very pleasing indeed.


----------



## Joong

I hope you get better.
 Enjoy your M8, which always amazes me and will help you revive.


----------



## hpamdr

shredder11 said:


> I was actually feeling a bit ill that day it arrived and I feel substantially more ill now, so hopefully once I am better I will start listening to it properly.  I have only listened to it through my 25 year old Sony MDR-CD333 headphones and not even through my Quested S7 active reference monitors.  Incidentally these monitors are about £300 more than they were when I bought mine back in 2005, when the price was £1200;  I thought prices came down usually!  Added to this I attempted to improve my old Soundcraft mixer with a better PSU socket and plug, but somehow I have damaged the whole mixer.  It powered up normally but then I could smell burning from the PCB, plus the fault I was trying to improve was worse.  So I have ordered a new Mackie Onyx mixer along with some AKG K712 Pro headphones, and a few pairs of balanced cables.  One of the things I dislike about my new SMSL M8 is the lack of outputs, especially balanced connections.  There is only one pair of stereo outputs to feed my powered active monitors and also my VA2 headphone amp, so I either use the headphone output on my new Mackie mixer, or I deploy a cable patching device to route the audio to my Quested monitors or my VA2.
> 
> So far though I am very happy with the M8 bundle and surprisingly I have noticed a huge improvement when listening to 24/192 vinyl LP rips.  I never thought I would ever re-kindle my love of the sound of vinyl, but now these rips sound smooth, detailed and very pleasing indeed.


 

 Hi Shreeder, you are very familiar with PRO gears where the versatility is not an option ! Whith the M8, you go to small dedicated devices and then you loose multiple output/input , world clock...
  
 If you need a PRO dac you should give a look to the Mitek 192DSD, Grace design m920, or Benchmark DAC2 DX  ... or even Teac UD-501.
  
 Introducing an active mixer in the output signal is not the best recipe for the sound quality. You should probably ask about  "pasive Line Output Selector" on a local music store.
 if you need balanced output (not only the XLR plug) it is a bit too late as M8 only provide unbalanced output (RCA) but this can be achived by transformer . But at the end it will cost you more and use more space than a DAC that suit your needs and probably with a final lower sound quatity (the one you listen !)


----------



## Shredder11

Yes I do use a lot of different equipment due to my years of being a musician and having a full home studio setup.  Naturally I was aware of the lack of connections etc with the M8 before I bought it, but for the price it offers quite a lot.  I understand your concerns about using a mixer between the DAC and the active monitor speakers, but I want to avoid repeated plugging and unplugging of cables just to listen to the DAC or use my monitors for something else.  The Mackie Onyx preamps on the mixer are quite transparent I believe, so this should not be a problem.  I did try to find something to act as a simple routing switch and avoid the need for a mixer, but for some weird reason I could not find anything suitable.


----------



## Shure or bust

Using the filters now Lol. Never knew they existed. 4 months later...


----------



## Katji

Me too. i think there is nothing about it on any of the ebay descriptions. And SMSL website is not so good.
  
 ----
 Yes pro DACs are expensive.  i was surprised to find how expensive "high-end" DACs are. Aside from XLR and balanced connections, and better power supplies, i think the "high-end" DACs are overpriced.

 Meanwhile, i wait. Paid for the courier option and it is taking longer than Post Office. Beginning with them not having my phone number, which i had given to the seller, courier says the number they got "looks foreign/Chinese or something." But now a normal person at the head office is on it.


----------



## Shay820

hi all
 i have pci card (esi juli) for couple of years 
 i am thinking replacing the esi juli with smsl m8  dac
 you think it will be a good upgrade from esi juli ?
 my speakers are polkaudio lsi9 and amp acurus dia100 mk2
 thanks very much shay


----------



## hpamdr

M8 is a DAC only and do not have any ADC input, no midi. If you only use your soundcard for playing music M8 can be a replacement but you will not have any balanced output and only one strero output.


----------



## Shay820

thanks for the help
 i need it only for 2 channel Stereo
 Will it be better than a esi juli  card?


----------



## bwcgrx

A strange yet good thing happened today.
  
 I went to the post office to pick up my SMSL P1 linear power supply that I purchased from ebay seller Pericross.  I'm using it to upgrade power to my SMSL M8 DAC.
  
 Got it home and opened it up.
  

  
 Unit looks good!  However when I looked at the back.
  

 The back of the unit indicates that it is for 90-120 VAC.  I expected 190-240 VAC, even bought a transformer to accomplish the conversion task. The unit did come with a standard US mains power cable.
  
 I plugged it up directly to AC power and it works.  No white smoke or other anomalies thus far.
  
I guess I can now send the transformer back to Amazon.  Just to be safe I'm going to contact Pericross, however I assume they are now silently offering North American power versions of this.  Funny thing is I made a best offer bid on a listing that was in UK Pounds, the vendor obviously new that the unit was being sent to the US however.
  
 Now to see how this improves the M8.


----------



## Katji

................_whewh! _i got mine today, hadn't thought to check. 190-240. 
 That would have been the last straw.
 3+ weeks although i paid for EMS - which turned out to be courier (which is bad news because courier in my country means the highest import tax they can find, extra charges, and couriers honking at the gate without calling first, without telling you when they're likely to get to you.) In this case, the long time sitting at Customs was because the seller had given the courier the wrong phone number, and i wasn't chasing it up. Courier said "it looks like a Chinese number or some foreign number." Then today i get it and find that he didn't swap the USA plug for an EU plug like he'd said he would.


----------



## dumpingground

bwcgrx said:


> I guess I can now send the transformer back to Amazon.  Just to be safe I'm going to contact Pericross, however I assume they are now silently offering North American power versions of this.  Funny thing is I made a best offer bid on a listing that was in UK Pounds, the vendor obviously new that the unit was being sent to the US however.
> 
> Now to see how this improves the M8.


 
  
  
 Did you hear back fromo Pericross?  Are US customers being sent US power versions of the P1 now routinely?


----------



## bwcgrx

dumpingground said:


> Did you hear back fromo Pericross?  Are US customers being sent US power versions of the P1 now routinely?


 
  
 Pericross did reply to my question and did confirm that the P1 is indeed now available in 120v.  They did not specify if they automatically ship those out to US customers however.
  
 I'd say the chance of getting a 120v version when shipped to the USA 99.9%. Considering the fact that the listing I purchased under noted that the item was 220v only and was a UK Pounds listing yet I still received a 120v version here in the USA.
  
 I believe at least one person in this thread, from the US, ordered a P1 from Pericross and received a 220v version, however that was back in August or September I believe.  It would seem the 120v option has just recently been available.
  
 If you do order from Pericross you may want to send a message to them after purchase indicating that you do indeed want the 120v option.
  
 BTW.. purchasing from Pericross went well.  Item shipped within 24 hours and took just over two weeks to arrive via Singapore Post.


----------



## dumpingground

Pericross told me via email that USA version was available as well.  I just purchased one myself.  We will see!


----------



## slimzim

Hello folks! I'm struggling to find information about if this could be a fine upgrade from my Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, which is my first headphone amp/dac. But now I have two amps that I like more. Both of them are tube amps btw.
 So I thought this could be a nice improvement over the dac in the Maverick Tubemagic.
 Any thoughts?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## DjBobby

slimzim said:


> Hello folks! I'm struggling to find information about if this could be a fine upgrade from my Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, which is my first headphone amp/dac. But now I have two amps that I like more. Both of them are tube amps btw.
> So I thought this could be a nice improvement over the dac in the Maverick Tubemagic.
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

 If you don't have an upgraded plus version of D1, then imo it would certainly be an improvement. Basic D1 goes only up to 96khz, plus Tenor 7022L used on usb doesn't support dsd. On the other hand, there are many who swear on AD1955 chip used in D1 which is a r2r, sounding more natural then any modern delta sigma dac chip. Since you use tube amps, this wouldn't be a problem, it would warm up a bit the extra clarity offered by ES9018 used in M8, plus you get xmos on usb with a dsd support.


----------



## dumpingground

djbobby said:


> if you don't have an upgraded plus version of D1, then imo it would be certainly be an improvement. Basic D1 goes only up to 96khz, plus Tenor 7022L used on usb doesn't support dsd. On the other hand, there are many who swear on AD1955 chip used in D1 which is a r2r, sounding more natural then any modern delta sigma dac chip. Since you use tube amps, this wouldn't be a problem, it would warm up a bit the extra clarity offered by ES9018 used in M8, plus you get xmos on usb with a dsd support.


 
  
 I agree with DJBobby.  I have the tubemagic D2 and the SMSL M8.  The M8 supports DSD and 24/384 as well as async usb which is on paper better then the tubemagic DAC's.  As far as sound, the tubemagic is already at a pretty good level so I would say that the M8 is better, but you are really adding ice on the cake at this point.  The tubemagic does have tubes and in my system the tube output of the D2 does add a subtle difference, not necessarily better, but different.


----------



## Joong

slimzim said:


> Hello folks! I'm struggling to find information about if this could be a fine upgrade from my Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, which is my first headphone amp/dac. But now I have two amps that I like more. Both of them are tube amps btw.
> So I thought this could be a nice improvement over the dac in the Maverick Tubemagic.
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

 M8 is not much difference from high names on here like Conductor, Geek pulse Xfi, or Gustard X20 perhaps DA8, Matrix x Sabre.
 Actually I had have hard time to listen the difference among some of them against M8.
 When I heard Geek pulse, I was very supprised that M8 was much better at initial listening and further more after several days of burning in time still M8 was better.


----------



## Joong

This is a typical example that if something is unclear then the simplest is the best.
 Signal line may be the shortest, and the control over it might be the simplest as in Nelsen Pass amplifier design the minimalist.


----------



## bwcgrx

slimzim said:


> Hello folks! I'm struggling to find information about if this could be a fine upgrade from my Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1, which is my first headphone amp/dac. But now I have two amps that I like more. Both of them are tube amps btw.
> So I thought this could be a nice improvement over the dac in the Maverick Tubemagic.
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 
 I can't speak for the Maverick as I've never heard it however, as others have mentioned over the last few posts the M8 is a superior DAC in specifications. As we all know specifications never tell the whole story when it comes to audio gear. In my own experience the M8 punches above it's price class when it comes to performance. It does have the Sabre DAC clarity but none of the glare or harshness often associated with such DACs.
  
 In many ways the M8 sounds better and has a more detailed presentation than the Geek Out 1000 which I also own and use regularly. I'm currently pairing the M8 with a Schiit Asgard 2 and find the combo quite satisfying.  Since you have a couple tube amps they should ad a nice warmth to the M8s clear and tight musical presentation. I'd also recommend the SMSL P1 linear power supply to upgrade the overall sound produced by the M8.  It has only been a few days but I feel that the P1 has expanded both the treble and bass response of the M8 in addition to producing and even smoother upper treble.
  
 Ultimately I doubt you would be disappointed with an M8 as an upgrade to your Maverick.


----------



## bavinck

Can anyone comment on the emotiva dac-1 compared to the m8? I have hear the dac-1 is comparable to the schiit gungnir. Is the m8 in the same league as dac1?


----------



## Gotcha

```
[color=rgb(33, 33, 33)] My M8 with P1 has bad chances, compared to my x-sabre. [/color]
```


----------



## fritobugger

Today my M8 started generating popping noises when playing back all files as DSD as SDM Type A and B but doesn't do this when using SDM Type A (FP32). All were set to FsSD64. 

I have been playing all my files as DSD using SDM Type B for many months with no problems. 

Has anyone else experienced this?

It does this with both the P1 and the original power supply. I tried two different USB cables too.


----------



## bwcgrx

fritobugger said:


> Today my M8 started generating popping noises when playing back all files as DSD as SDM Type A and B but doesn't do this when using SDM Type A (FP32). All were set to FsSD64.
> 
> I have been playing all my files as DSD using SDM Type B for many months with no problems.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is very likely that this is a software and or computer OS issue and not an M8 issue.  Conversions to DSD in Foobar are handled by the ASIO proxy driver using CPU processing cycles.
  
 During the first week of receiving my M8 I had an issue once where all DSD content played resulted in loud noise with the the music at a very low volume mixed within.  I had to remove power from my PC, and the M8 let them sit for awhile to discharge. Once everything was powered up again DSD worked fine.  I've also had to uninstall/reinstall the ASIO proxy and DAC drivers for similar issues with DSD in other DACs.


----------



## fritobugger

I will try the original settings after a reboot and see what happens.  If that doesn't work then I may uninstall/reinstall the ASIO and drivers.  Thanks for the reply.


----------



## jkrichards

I think adding a stage of tubes in the preamp or power amp adds some body and realness to any source.  It's less expensive and less maintenance cost to add a tube preamp instead of an amp.  I'm currently running an Audio Research SP9 MKIII tube preamp through a Audio Research D400 MKII solid state amp.  My speakers are the B&W 802N.  I just replace my high end DAC with this M8 and love the new sound.  This DAC is special.  Being a audio engineer in a studio for over 30 years, I have listened to many studio grade DAC's and this one is my favorite.  I like the Minimum phase filter the best.  I master all my studio mixes to 24bit 96khz and this DAC really shines on these Hi Resolution audio files.  The DSD playback is also a nice added feature.  I originally purchased this DAC for a portable system however it's now permanently in my studio. This just shows you cost sometimes doesn't matter.


----------



## Carlos Barrera

_Hi !_
  
 I used my M8 DAC with 10 Windows Enterprise x 64, I changed to Windows Server 2012 R2 and improved sound ; I use Foobar2000 1.3.9, Signalyst HQPlayer 2.8.2 and JRiver 21.0.19
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WuZfGz-34A
  
 Regards 
  
 Carlos Barrera / Stockholm-Sverige


----------



## Maete

The M8 DAC is now up on massdrop  (150$) again if anyone is interested... At least I am


----------



## pasa

Have you noticed that the channels are backwards when playing DSD?


----------



## dabl

I am interested in using the M8 with a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 3rd gen via usb running Windows 10 and Fooobar feeding Audioengine A2+ speakers via the analog outs from the M8.
  
 For this setup is there a way to use the M8 configured for Foobar (WASAPI etc) with the foobar volume set to 100% and still manipulate the sound volume via the Windows volume control?
  
 I'm currently using this setup feeding the Audioengine speakers via usb and this seems to work fine, ie the Foobar (using WASPI) volume control remains at 100% independent of the windows volume control which controls the overall sound volume etc.  With this setup I'm using a Foobar conversion plugin to dither down for playing 24bit PCM and .iso DSD files.
  
 I'm also very interested in tips for using the M8 with Foobar per above and playing both PCM and DSD files.  I've read the entire thread and saved all the bits about configuration and it sounds like there is but I just wanted to confirm there's a Foobar configuration that allows this to happen without having to switch settings around.  
  
 Thanks for any comments/pointers.


----------



## bwcgrx

maete said:


> The M8 DAC is now up on massdrop  (150$) again if anyone is interested... At least I am



 
A great price for a fantastic DAC.  That $150 price is $40 cheaper than I got mine, from Massdrop, just a couple months ago.
 
Anyone in need of a great sounding DAC would be hard pressed to find anything that performs at the level of the M8 for anywhere near that price.
 
 


pasa said:


> Have you noticed that the channels are backwards when playing DSD?



 
I've had no issues with the channels being reversed when playing DSD.  I'm using Foobar with the foo_dsd_asio driver.


----------



## Dimon Hell

Hi ppl!
 I'm tryin to get some net streamer / player for my loseless. Thinking about Raspberry Pi2 based, and looking for cheap and good dac.
 What can you advice? Does M8 fits my needs?


----------



## Cukedaddy

dimon hell said:


> Hi ppl!
> 
> I'm tryin to get some net streamer / player for my loseless. Thinking about Raspberry Pi2 based, and looking for cheap and good dac.
> 
> What can you advice? Does M8 fits my needs?


It depends on if you use headphones or not... If you do, I recommend the SMSL M6. Also whether you have Dsd files or just pcm files. The M6 doesn't support Dsd files....which can be argued if they actually sound "better" then lossy or loseless files.


----------



## Dimon Hell

Well, i don't use hp much, this dac meant for being connected to my Luxman amp.


----------



## wouter2611

Hi everyone,
  
 I was wondering if the m8 suits my setup.
 I want to use it most of the times for my macbook air --> arcam a22 --> kef iq50's. Does this result in a better quality than hooking up my ibasso dx90?


----------



## fritobugger

.


maete said:


> The M8 DAC is now up on massdrop  (150$) again if anyone is interested... At least I am


 
  
  
 I can kind of pissed off about that since the last drop at the higher price was very recent


----------



## Sparky14

fritobugger said:


> .
> 
> 
> I can kind of pissed off about that since the last drop at the higher price was very recent


 
  
 That is common for Massdrop though. If the first drop is successful, they can work a better deal from the supplier. Frustrating? Sure, but that is how group buys work.


----------



## dabl

For use in the Windows environment does this device support a 'hardware' volume control so one can control it through the master control in the Windows mixer independent of the audio API (DS, KS, WASPI, ASIO etc)?


----------



## bwcgrx

dabl said:


> For use in the Windows environment does this device support a 'hardware' volume control so one can control it through the master control in the Windows mixer independent of the audio API (DS, KS, WASPI, ASIO etc)?


 
  
 I've not tested Windows 10 however under Windows 8.1 in my experience yes you can manipulate the output level of the M8's analog outputs using either the Foobar or Windows master volume.  If you use the Windows master volume control the Foobar volume is unaffected.  I don't think there would be a major difference between Win 10 and Win 8.1, however with Microsoft you never know.
  
 You can play back PCM and DSD without having to make any software changes to facilitate the switch.  Keep in mind however that if you want to keep DSD decoding native you will have to use the Foo DSD ASIO  driver as opposed to WASAPI.  If you want to use WASAPI DSD material will need to be converted to PCM which the foobar SACD plugin can do.


----------



## hpamdr

dabl said:


> For use in the Windows environment does this device support a 'hardware' volume control so one can control it through the master control in the Windows mixer independent of the audio API (DS, KS, WASPI, ASIO etc)?


 

 When playing DSD file with marker under foobar, you cannot use master volume control and generally it is better to control it at the amplifier.


----------



## Dimon Hell

I'm just wondering - will i hear difference between PCM and DSD via my vintage Luxman L-505V and Grundig Box 660b?
 Maybe there's no point to buy DSD dac for me? Just choosing between usual DAC below 100 Eur and M8 - around 200 Eur.


----------



## bwcgrx

dimon hell said:


> I'm just wondering - will i hear difference between PCM and DSD via my vintage Luxman L-505V and Grundig Box 660b?
> 
> Maybe there's no point to buy DSD dac for me? Just choosing between usual DAC below 100 Eur and M8 - around 200 Eur.




DSD is no guarantee of great sound. The care taken during the mixing and final mastering have a greater impact. I do believe that in many cases recodings in DSD with no coversion to PCM arguably have a warmer more analog sound than high sampling/bit rate PCM recordings. Again, how much this has to do with the type of recording versus mastering is an endless debate. I have standard CD rips in 16bit/44.1kHz that sound phenomenal. I try not to get too caught up in the semantics and just enjoy the music. It is nice to have the option to playback just about any audio file PCM or DSD, without additional conversion, which the M8 does extremely well.


----------



## Katji

That is exactly how i see it. (Sorry the pointless comment, but rather have the capability in case you eventually want it. Rather than buy a more expensive DAC with older design, or less expensive that is USB-powered.)


----------



## BobMonkhouse

I consider joining the current drop. I'm also expecting my ODAC/O2 to arrive from the last drop. I've listened to an ODAC/O2 but haven't heard the M8 or any other ES9018 based DACs for that matter. Can anybody compare the sound of M8 to ODAC? I'm particularly attracted to the idea of using the digital filters on M8 to alter the signature slightly. How the filters affect the sound though?


----------



## heliosphann

Would this be an upgrade to the Modi 2 Uber? I've got a Gustard H10 that I'm using a LCD 2F and He560 with, and was wanting to upgrade my DAC.


----------



## jaywillin

heliosphann said:


> Would this be an upgrade to the Modi 2 Uber? I've got a Gustard H10 that I'm using a LCD 2F and He560 with, and was wanting to upgrade my DAC.


 
 i've got the h10 and the modi 2 uber, and i've been eyeing this little dac as well, i'd originally planned to spend a good bit more on upgrading my dac
 but this caught my eye, it just might be worth a shot


----------



## fritobugger

heliosphann said:


> Would this be an upgrade to the Modi 2 Uber? I've got a Gustard H10 that I'm using a LCD 2F and He560 with, and was wanting to upgrade my DAC.




I have the H10 and the M8 with an HE-500, K7XX and an Alpha Dog. The combo sounds good to me.


----------



## dabl

thank you to bwcgrx and hpamdr for the helpful replies


----------



## thomaz

M8 accept only 32 bit depth usb?In linux ubuntu i can play only 32bit.When i play 16bit and 24 bit i hear crackles.I manualy set
 in mpd.conf format "44100:32:2" and is ok but will be this bit perfect?


----------



## wersuss

Got this M8. Difference is good from my other DAC Douk Audio DSD1796. Using audio pro Addon one speakers.
  
 Edit : Also using SMSL P1 linear power supply, but can't hear difference with these small speakers as their amp makes a lot of background noise itself.


----------



## Eugeneel

HI, have a problem to use M8 by USB with MacBook with OS X 10.11.1. Mac just doesn't see M8 at all. Nothing helps. What could i do?


----------



## acer5513

thomaz said:


> M8 accept only 32 bit depth usb?In linux ubuntu i can play only 32bit.When i play 16bit and 24 bit i hear crackles.I manualy set
> in mpd.conf format "44100:32:2" and is ok but will be this bit perfect?


 
 M8 accept any bit depth on linux (ubuntu). I use deadbeef player with alsa output plugin and set output device to xCore USB Audio 2.0 - Direct hardware device without any conversation. It's bit prefect solution.


----------



## thomaz

acer5513 said:


> same M8 accept any bit depth on linux (ubuntu). I use deadbeef player with alsa output plugin and set output device to xCore USB Audio 2.0 - Direct hardware device without any conversation. It's bit prefect solution.


 
 What version ubuntu?I have 14.04.I use only mpd..Maybe deadbeaf auto change to 32bit.Do you check hw_params when play 16bit?


----------



## wersuss

Hello. I don't hear difference between stock power supply and linear one, can it be that speakers are too small?


----------



## acer5513

thomaz said:


> What version ubuntu?I have 14.04.I use only mpd..Maybe deadbeaf auto change to 32bit.Do you check hw_params when play 16bit?


 

 I have ubuntu 14.04 too. I don't use mpd. I use deadbeef, audacious and sometimes audacity with alsa output. hw_params corresponds file bit depth in all cases.


----------



## thomaz

When i play audacious i have "ALSA error: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format failed:" therefore i must change to 32bit in settings.
 In specification i see Optical/Coaxial: 16Bit-24Bit ,USB support 32bit.Maybe wrong firmware?


----------



## fritobugger

wersuss said:


> Hello. I don't hear difference between stock power supply and linear one, can it be that speakers are too small?




Same here with HE-500 and Alpha Dog headphones.


----------



## sghound

OMG u can cook an egg on the linear one


----------



## acer5513

thomaz said:


> When i play audacious i have "ALSA error: snd_pcm_hw_params_set_format failed:" therefore i must change to 32bit in settings.
> In specification i see Optical/Coaxial: 16Bit-24Bit ,USB support 32bit.Maybe wrong firmware?


 
 I install audacious on my pc and i have this error, while i change 32bit in settings. Deadbeef play all format (16-32/44.1 - 192, flac, ape...) without problems and without crackles.   http://lacocina.nl/ - usefull site for configure mpd and alsa.


----------



## wersuss

sghound said:


> OMG u can cook an egg on the linear one


 
 That's true, it gets warm.  I actually think that with stock switching power supply sound is louder, maybe little bit more harsh, highs are more separated.
 But no noise with any of them.
  
 Edit : This DAC is amazing, sound is getting better after 20 hours of playing.


----------



## bwcgrx

sghound said:


> OMG u can cook an egg on the linear one




Sghound, are you using the 120vac or 220vac version of the SMSL P1? I'm curious as my 110vac model gets warm but never seems to get hot Not nearly as warm as my Asgard 2 or even a LH Geek Out 1000. I wonder if the higher voltage units may get warmer.




wersuss said:


> That's true, it gets warm.  I actually think that with stock switching power supply sound is louder, maybe little bit more harsh, highs are more separated.
> But no noise with any of them.
> 
> Edit : This DAC is amazing, sound is getting better after 20 hours of playing.




I concur, the M8 only gets better after several hours of burn in. I also think it smooths out after an hour or two warm up from power on. For me this is now easily one of the best budget DACs for anywhere near the price and the sound quality/signature scales up with the addition of the P1.

On a related note, I snagged an SMSL VMV VA2 on ebay for $90. This is the amp that SMSL bundles with the M8/P1. I was curious what the triffecta might sound like. I don't expect it to have the warmth or power of the Asgard 2 nor do I think it will be as neutral or analytical as an objective O2. Hopefully the sound will fall somewhere between the two. I'll report back once I've received it and had some time with it. Hopefully this brand continues to impress.


----------



## fritobugger

bwcgrx said:


> Sghound, are you using the 120vac or 220vac version of the SMSL P1? I'm curious as my 110vac model gets warm but never seems to get hot Not nearly as warm as my Asgard 2 or even a LH Geek Out 1000. I wonder if the higher voltage units may get warmer.
> I concur, the M8 only gets better after several hours of burn in. I also think it smooths out after an hour or two warm up from power on. For me this is now easily one of the best budget DACs for anywhere near the price and the sound quality/signature scales up with the addition of the P1.
> 
> On a related note, I snagged an SMSL VMV VA2 on ebay for $90. This is the amp that SMSL bundles with the M8/P1. I was curious what the triffecta might sound like. I don't expect it to have the warmth or power of the Asgard 2 nor do I think it will be as neutral or analytical as an objective O2. Hopefully the sound will fall somewhere between the two. I'll report back once I've received it and had some time with it. Hopefully this brand continues to impress.




I have the 220V version in a a 220V country. My M8 also gets pretty hot with the standard switching power supply.


----------



## sghound

bwcgrx said:


> Sghound, are you using the 120vac or 220vac version of the SMSL P1? I'm curious as my 110vac model gets warm but never seems to get hot Not nearly as warm as my Asgard 2 or even a LH Geek Out 1000. I wonder if the higher voltage units may get warmer.


 
  
 220
  
 i cannot touch it without almost scalding.


----------



## Peter78

sghound said:


> 220
> 
> i cannot touch it without almost scalding.


 
  
 Interesting.  I'm currently waiting for my M8 & P1 (110V) to arrive.  I hope that my P1 doesn't get as hot as what's been reported here (at least for the 220V version).


----------



## Katji

i searched ebay for a CPU heatsink like the Intel P3 one that was shown here, but couldn't find anything like it. Would be better than just adding a chunk of aluminium like a standard heatsink. ...Only other thing i can think of is having a little fan, battery-powered, standing next to the P1.


----------



## PLazarou

Can someone explain why this DAC offers a power supply that is bigger than the unit itself? I don't understand why some highly-regarded DACs are tiny and run off a basic wall wart or even just USB, whereas this P1 supposedly dramatically improves sound quality. Is it because the included adapter is terrible? Is the M8 made in such a way that is incredibly susceptible to power supply problems, or would any DAC also benefit from something like the P1? Would buying a generic but higher quality adapter also improve sound quality?


----------



## hpamdr

Supplied switching poer supply is not terrible and M8 quality in standard is already very good !
 Most of DAC are sensible to power and usb noise. So yes most of other DAC that needs 9v external  can use p1 and if you already have a regulated power supply that deliver very stable 9V you can use it with M8.
  
 If you do not have a very dynamic amplifier in most case the enhancement is not so huge IMO. But as you spend 100$ this is sure that you must notice something


----------



## Katji

> Can someone explain why this DAC offers a power supply that is bigger than the unit itself?


 
 Size, "form factor."  P1 PSU is same L and W as M8 DAC and V2 headphone amp. H is more because of the transformer coil.
  


> I don't understand why some highly-regarded DACs are tiny and run off a basic wall wart or even just USB


 
 USB for portability and convenience, desktop use with "computer speakers"/desktop speakers.
  
 Price point.
  
 Look at the size and shape of "wall wart" transformers/PS compared to the size of small DACs.

 This way, modular, we are not limited to a built-in/integrated PSU. (How important PS is in hi-fi audio generally is a whole 'nother story.)
 In this case, the M8, it is not portable because it is not USB-powered.

 Look at the cost and the price point. Integrating the P1 PSU into the M8 DAC would mean approx. 80% higher price. (And about 3x the height - or approx. 50% wider, and they wanted to have the same matching length and width.)
 "Higher-end" DACs with built-in PSU are more like the typical size of amps and CD players and so on. (And price from about $600, $1000 up.)
  


> Is it because the included adapter is terrible?


 
 No, the included PSU is just a typical generic thing.
  


> Would buying a generic but higher quality adapter also improve sound quality?


 
 No.  Or possibly/theoretically, but i don't know how you'd be sure about generic but higher quality.  Possibly/theoretically at best because they're all basically the same design. The P1 is a linear power supply...costs more, is more stable, less noisy.
  


> Is the M8 made in such a way that is incredibly susceptible to power supply problems, or would any DAC also benefit from something like the P1?


 
 No, it is general/typical.
 Yes, any DAC (aside from $$$$ DACs with expensive built-in PSU.)  Amps and so on generally too. PSU is key in amplifier designs.
  
 PS:  Read back from here - same topic, sheds more light. (And - in my opinion - why the SMSL M8 is better if you're not buying a $$$$ DAC.) http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,46494.msg608379.html#msg608379


----------



## PLazarou

hpamdr said:


> Supplied switching poer supply is not terrible and M8 quality in standard is already very good !
> Most of DAC are sensible to power and usb noise. So yes most of other DAC that needs 9v external  can use p1 and if you already have a regulated power supply that deliver very stable 9V you can use it with M8.
> 
> If you do not have a very dynamic amplifier in most case the enhancement is not so huge IMO. But as you spend 100$ this is sure that you must notice something


 
  
  


katji said:


> Size, "form factor."  P1 PSU is same L and W as M8 DAC and V2 headphone amp. H is more because of the transformer coil.
> 
> USB for portability and convenience, desktop use with "computer speakers"/desktop speakers.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for both of your replies! And thank you Katji for the amount of detail you provided. There is a lot to digest. So would it be fair to say that a USB-powered DAC is most susceptible to audio problems, a compact desktop DAC with a standard power adapter somewhat less so, and the high-end DAC with built-in PSU (and alternatively something like the P1) the least problematic?
  
 In terms of the effect of this less-than-optimal power on USB and standard power adapter DACs, is this primarily a stability/interference sort of thing, or is it more about body and tone? When I read reports of a different PSU or cable giving a DAC a richer bass or fuller midrange, I get very confused, because my impression is that it is the headphones and the amp that have the biggest influence on that... I thought a DAC was just about providing an accurate signal to an amp, and then the amp and headphones can give it the 'personality' if necessary...


----------



## hpamdr

plazarou said:


> In terms of the effect of this less-than-optimal power on USB and standard power adapter DACs, is this primarily a stability/interference sort of thing, or is it more about body and tone? When I read reports of a different PSU or cable giving a DAC a richer bass or fuller midrange, I get very confused, because my impression is that it is the headphones and the amp that have the biggest influence on that... I thought a DAC was just about providing an accurate signal to an amp, and then the amp and headphones can give it the 'personality' if necessary...


 
 - you are right, usb powered dac are less than optimal and some people add unit like wyrd or power decoupling unit to enhance what is supplied by the computer usb power.
 - in M8 like in most usb DAC, you have a USB interface (XMOS), a DAC (ESS) and an output stage.
 - the line output stage is mini amplifier and this part need some current to work well. If your power supply is not stable enough you can detect lack of dynamic or bass. You cannot really call this personallity (unless you have a tube DAC).
  
 So even with DAC a linear power supply (Not a monster) can have influence.
  
 But to notice more efficiently/easilly, you must have good cans and good amplifier.


----------



## SanderK

I have had this DAC for a couple of months and it has been excellent. Nice build quality, small footprint and the latest USB XMOS U8 implementation. I use it in combination with the P1 PSU which to me is well worth the cost, it is a clear improvement even on modest systems. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the standard M8 though, at the price. I am using it in a system with a Marantz PM-14 from 2001 and B&W CDM-7-SE speakers. 
 Setting things up is a breeze on Jriver Media Center, including DSD.  When playing DSD tracks it converts everything to PCM (DoP), not sure how much impact this has, recordings still sound clearly better than Redbook. 
  
 New XMOS U8 USB drivers on the SMSL website, including a Windows 10 version, good to see continuous support.
http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=msg&id=1375&


----------



## PLazarou

I remain interested in this M8. I'm looking at it in comparison to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, as I seem to be able to buy them for roughly the same price in the UK.
  
 Looking at the various specs of SNR, THD, etc, much of which I'm not going to pretend to understand, the M8 appears to be superior. But then I look at other very expensive DACs and those kind of specs also look pretty similar. So the whole thing seems meaningless... indeed I can't even find this data on a lot of DAC spec sheets.
  
 So should I even be looking at specs? How can I know whether this is the better buy than the Modi 2 Uber?


----------



## Cukedaddy

I would say just by the more features... That and the fact people love it... But if you listen to headphones at all, I recommend the SMSL M6 which has a headphone amp also


----------



## PLazarou

cukedaddy said:


> I would say just by the more features... That and the fact people love it... But if you listen to headphones at all, I recommend the SMSL M6 which has a headphone amp also


 
 I'm interested particularly in terms of headphones. I already have a dedicated headphone amp (Corda Jazz) so I'm looking for a neat standalone DAC to go with it.


----------



## Cukedaddy

Then I would go M8


----------



## PLazarou

cukedaddy said:


> Then I would go M8


 

 Any particular reason why I should pick the M8 over the Modi 2 Uber? 
  
 I've posted some more detail about my situation in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/790237/x-fi-hd-digital-music-premium-hd-query
  
 Seems like not many people visit that part of the forum...


----------



## Cukedaddy

It sounds like you wouldn't be upgrading if you bought the Schitt... To be honest, it sounds like you already have what you need... If it was me, I'd make sure I could return whatever is gotten just in case you're not satisfied


----------



## PLazarou

cukedaddy said:


> It sounds like you wouldn't be upgrading if you bought the Schitt... To be honest, it sounds like you already have what you need... If it was me, I'd make sure I could return whatever is gotten just in case you're not satisfied


 
 It's not so much a case of being not satisfied - the headphones are distinctly better than my old pair and the amp is satisfying to use (particularly the crossfeed switch). It's more a case of wondering whether I'm hearing what I'm supposed to be hearing, whether the X-Fi is really giving the amp and headphones the quality they need. I mean, I _should_ be able to hear the difference between a 128kbps MP3 and a FLAC, or the difference between the samples on the Tidal test...


----------



## Cukedaddy

That's what I mean, you may not hear a substantial difference... Atleast with the Schitt because it having the same chip... That doesn't mean you won't... It's possible though... Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide... Let me know how it turns out


----------



## dumpingground

dumpingground said:


> Did you hear back fromo Pericross?  Are US customers being sent US power versions of the P1 now routinely?


 

 Just to confirm, Pericross is shipping US versions of the P1 upon request.  I just received mine.


----------



## Cukedaddy

I bought and received an M6 from pericross also


----------



## PLazarou

Decided to give one of these a shot. I appear to have purchased from Pericross also, so no idea when it might arrive.


----------



## panzozo

I bought the whole combo from Pericross. It came with 4 packages. The M8 was coming from Canada amazon and it arrived pretty quick. The P1 and VA2 came from China and it takes about 7 days and last the WA6 cable and it's about 10 days.
  
 BTW, my P1 does come as US version.


----------



## Katji

ok, so i suppose >2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks. it will be interesting.  The mission to see how flac is better than 128. i can see it being a problem with 320 vs flac but everyone says 128 kbps is too bad.


----------



## PLazarou

panzozo said:


> I bought the whole combo from Pericross. It came with 4 packages. The M8 was coming from Canada amazon and it arrived pretty quick. The P1 and VA2 came from China and it takes about 7 days and last the WA6 cable and it's about 10 days.
> 
> BTW, my P1 does come as US version.


 
 Mine has a German tracking code but I'm guessing it is waiting for a connection from China. It was 'dispatched' a few days ago but not showing up on the tracking systems. With the madness of the Christmas post in the UK I'm not expecting it until next year 
  


katji said:


> ok, so i suppose >2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks. it will be interesting.  The mission to see how flac is better than 128. i can see it being a problem with 320 vs flac but everyone says 128 kbps is too bad.


 
 Indeed! If I can't tell the difference then, I'll probably throw the whole lot on eBay and buy a PS4 instead.


----------



## synologic

Anybody running this bad boy connected to a Synology nas ?
 I am running it powered by the P1, and with the usb cable that was supplied but i get a lot of noise on tracks that have very low volume so when i turn the volume up, theres an awful lot of background noise.
  
 Next up is to try to play with rpi2+runeaudio powered by the second output on the P1 to see if it makes any difference, i just wanted to know if anybody has an opinion on this.
  
 Thanks


----------



## bwcgrx

katji said:


> ok, so i suppose >2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks. it will be interesting.  The mission to see how flac is better than 128. i can see it being a problem with 320 vs flac but everyone says 128 kbps is too bad.


 
  
 128k MP3s are quite horrible in my experience.  So much treble harshness, glare and serious distortion artifacts in the upper frequencies.  Just listen to massed strings in an orchestral piece at 128k and you should easily hear it.  I know MP3 encoders have gotten better over the years and MP3s encoded with newer encoder revisions will perform better even at 128 however there are some serious limitations trying to encode high fidelity audio that is transparent to the source using that narrow data path.  There may be some newer encoding/decoding methods that leverage the processing power available today to achieve better sounding files at that data rate however I don't think MP3 is one of them.  An argument can be made for well encoded 256k and 320k mp3 being much closer to the original source and in the case of certain types of music it may be very difficult to identify the lossy from the lossless file in many listening configurations.
  
 I'm currently running a complete SMSL stack M8, VA2, and P1 and I honestly love this little stack. I just added the VA2 which I snagged for $90 shipped on ebay from Pericross and for that cash it is very much a bargain.  I just got it this week so I need to give it time to break in, already sounds better after 3 days.  It holds its own against the Objective O2 and Asgard 2 amps and I think it may be a little better than the Magni 2 that I use at work.
  
 I'm interested in your opinion regarding FLAC vs MP3 and look forward to your findings.


----------



## Katji

Yes, sure.  Please refer to Plazarou's posts to see why we're talking about it. (Being able to see the difference.)

 Sometimes 128 kbps is all that's available. i'll give an example:  New track by artist i follow, not released on single/CD/whatever. Free download, 128 kbps. i liked it, so i looked for a 320 kbps version. No find. traxsource, not there; junodownload, not there, beatport, not there. Maybe available on iTunes, but i don't do Apple, and i won't install their screw*** software. So i had no choice but to keep the 128 kbps version until the track is available for purchase.


----------



## Cukedaddy

Just so you know.... Massdrop has the M8 up again... $159 can't be beat.


----------



## Dimon Hell

Bought M8+P1, but can't get it working. 
 Foobar is set up correctly with all needed dsd plugins, but when i try to play dsd image i have message "Unrecoverable playback error: Sample rate of 44100 Hz not supported by this device"
 Windows 8.1 Pro.


----------



## bwcgrx

dimon hell said:


> Bought M8+P1, but can't get it working.
> Foobar is set up correctly with all needed dsd plugins, but when i try to play dsd image i have message "Unrecoverable playback error: Sample rate of 44100 Hz not supported by this device"
> Windows 8.1 Pro.


 
  
 You may already have all the setting configured as below.... if so disregard this post.
  
 1) Make sure you have the XMOS device selected in the ASIO settings of foobar. Also select DOP as the playback method.
     (Double click on foo_dsd_asio in the ASIO drivers list to bring up the smaller foo_dsd_asio configuration panel.)
  
     
  
  
  
 2) Make sure the under the SACD Preferences setting that you've selected DSD as the Driver Mode and select stereo as the preferable area.
  

  
    
  
 3) ASIO: foo_dsd_asio selected as the output device.
  

  
 There are a few other things that could be snagging up DSD playback.  It won't work for sure if you don't do the steps above.


----------



## panzozo

plazarou said:


> Mine has a German tracking code but I'm guessing it is waiting for a connection from China. It was 'dispatched' a few days ago but not showing up on the tracking systems. With the madness of the Christmas post in the UK I'm not expecting it until next year
> 
> Indeed! If I can't tell the difference then, I'll probably throw the whole lot on eBay and buy a PS4 instead.


 
  
 I was told to use either 4PX tracking or 17 track. It will give you information from China all the way to your country. Give it a try
  
 https://www.aftership.com/courier/4px?lang=en


----------



## radmanhs

Alright, you can get the M8 on massdrop for $150 for the next week. I have a schiit modi 2 for my Sennheiser hd 650's, but nothing for my Vanatoo transparent one speakers. should I pick this up to either replace my schiit, or add it to my vanatoo's?  Or leave my situation as is for now.


----------



## PLazarou

panzozo said:


> I was told to use either 4PX tracking or 17 track. It will give you information from China all the way to your country. Give it a try
> 
> https://www.aftership.com/courier/4px?lang=en


 

 Thanks panzozo, that's a handy site. Unfortunately it's telling me it is 'pending', so the waiting game continues


----------



## Dimon Hell

*bwcgrx*, i've checked all settings - i have exactly the same, but instead of XMOS device i have TUSBaudio ASIO Driver.


----------



## bwcgrx

dimon hell said:


> *bwcgrx*, i've checked all settings - i have exactly the same, but instead of XMOS device i have TUSBaudio ASIO Driver.


 
  
 I believe that the TUSBaudio ASIO Driver is the third party USB 2.0 audio driver developed by Thesycon.  In theory it should work.
  
 Where did you download the driver as that is not the one that SMSL provides?  It could be that there is an issue with the Thesycon driver and the M8.  I know that there are specific licensing issues regarding use and distribution of the Thesycon driver however I don't know if that would impact installation and useage if you were to procure and install the driver.
  
 You might want to remove the TUSBaudio driver and install the one at the link below from SMSL.  They list the newwest driver as a Windows 10 driver however it works fine under WIndows 8.1 and I would assume Win 7 too.
  
http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=msg&id=1375&


----------



## Dimon Hell

*bwcgrx*
 Guys on iXbt forum told, that i need latest Tusb drivers and i try those from the same beginning.
 When i try genuine M8 drivers - it comes to life! But as i understand this is some kind of "demo" drivers from XMOS? 
 It works in DoP, but there's no "Native" mode availale. Does M8 work in Native at all?


----------



## bwcgrx

dimon hell said:


> *bwcgrx*
> Guys on iXbt forum told, that i need latest Tusb drivers and i try those from the same beginning.
> When i try genuine M8 drivers - it comes to life! But as i understand this is some kind of "demo" drivers from XMOS?
> It works in DoP, but there's no "Native" mode availale. Does M8 work in Native at all?


 
  
 Not sure about the demo driver issue.  On the XMOS site they do seem to state that there are production and evaluation drivers.  I would assume that the one offered by SMSL would be production however if it works in the end and there are no limitations on functionality they can call it whatever they want demo or production.  I've seen nothing in using the SMSL driver that would suggest it is anything but fully functional.
  
 The M8 does not support Native playback of DSD at least not yet as I believe a firmware upgrade could make it possible if it were offered.
  
 It is really a mute point however because there is no difference between Native and DOP from the final output perspective.  You are playing a genuine, pure DSD stream with DOP.  It is just being delivered in a PCM container.  When the DAC reads the PCM stream it recognizes the content as DSD not PCM and switches to DSD decoding.  If the DAC did not do this you would either get noise or no sound as all because the DSD stream would not be decodable as PCM.
  
 Some say that the extra overhead of packetizing the DSD stream into PCM creates more work for the PC and DAC.  The additional overhead is however minimal, as it is just header information, for today's computers and I doubt that it effects the final sound quality in the least. 
  
 Ultimately I think the issue is clouded by the fact that some think Native is somehow better than DOP.  Kinda of like how some people think organic food is always better just because it is labeled as such.  In the end you are getting exactly the same data to the DAC so I don't see where native would result in any real world advantage.


----------



## Dimon Hell

That's just details.
 I think i can't hear any difference even between good flac and dsd stream ,so i'm already happy with this small and nice device! 
 Thanks for your kind help!
 PS. Waiting for RPi2 and wondering, is it possible to set those drivers in it?


----------



## bnsb

Can anyone tell which are the opamps in VA2 amplifier? Are they swappable to better ones. Has anyone tried? Thanks


----------



## Porteroso

Well, I'm in for one of these. I had been eying a piece of Schiit for a while, so hopefully I'm not going wrong purchasing this. The good thing is that it's 150 on mass drop, and 250 on eBay right now. I imagine that if I don't like it, I'll be able to sell it back at my cost, maybe even make a buck or 2. (don't judge, poor college student here)
  
 I'm coming from an old Fiio E10 (I think that's what it is) that I'm using the dac section from. Really interested in having a decent dac. Hopefully this is all I'll need till I can afford the yggy.


----------



## Cukedaddy

You should be happy with it... Unless you have to buy a separate headphone amp... That's why I went with the M6 instead... Couldn't be happier... Good luck and happy listening


----------



## bongieto

Anybody knows if the DAC chip in newer M8 was updated to ESSES9018 from ESSES9018K2M? I keep seeing this statement from M8 descriptions "Update version ESS Technology Sabre Reference 32bit ES9018 DAC chip".


----------



## Cukedaddy

The Massdrop M8 says this... Featuring the latest Sabre Reference 32-bit ESS9018K2M dac chip...I don't know if this helps you


----------



## bongieto

Yeah. Thats what confuses me because on Amazon and Ebay. It says It was upgraded  to ESSES9018. Thanks for your response.


----------



## Cukedaddy

After taking a look, I think that it is the same chip they're talking about...just to lazy to type it all out


----------



## Tager

Hi! Who put this firmware "Update USB SMSL M8 (M8 USB v1.1.bin)" https://yadi.sk/d/B8ITHXD4mdcod
 Earned drivers from Thesycon (TUSBaudio)?
 For example these:
 TUSBaudio 2.23.0 https://yadi.sk/d/9xirNbBXmSY85
 TUSBaudio 2.27.0 https://yadi.sk/d/Ks0jqE78kxwx7
 There is full control panel, and "ASIO Native DSD (DSD256 including)". On other devices XMOS 8U6C5 works great.
 At the "ixbt forum", the user's M8 without firmware, these drivers didn't work - when you try to change settings in the control panel gave an error.
 Check if not difficult!


----------



## wersuss

Hi. Anyone knows what TCXO is used in this DAC?


----------



## dumpingground

wersuss said:


> Hi. Anyone knows what TCXO is used in this DAC?


 

 some nice hi rez internal pictures here:
  
 http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429
  
 but I cannot read the french to see they spell out the TCXO and I cannot see it on the board pics.


----------



## wersuss

dumpingground said:


> some nice hi rez internal pictures here:
> 
> http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429
> 
> but I cannot read the french to see they spell out the TCXO and I cannot see it on the board pics.


 
 Thank you  They saying something about 100mhz in this article.


----------



## Tager

XMOS chip uses two oscillators with low phase noise, one in 22.5792MHz for sampling at 44.1 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 176.4 kHz and 352.8 kHz, and the other at 24MHz for sampling at 48 kHz, 96 kHz 192 kHz and 384 kHz.
 ES9018K2M chip uses oscillator 100 MHz.


----------



## bongieto

I got one of this from a quick amazon sale and I really liked it a lot. Paired with my Little Dot MKiii + mallard tubes, the bass is so smooth and well controlled. The highs is also tamed with great extension. I even think its much better than my $800 Teac UD501. Lesson learned; expensive doesn't necessarily mean its better.


----------



## wwmhf

ustas said:


> With iFi iDAC DSD selling at $190 I think SMSL M8 is priced appropriately... If it was made by Weiss then it would be entirely another matter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It is an interesting and versatile package; however the price seems to be too high compared with those power packs for portable devices on sale these days.


----------



## willowbrook

How does this pair with the H10 if anyone has experience, would love to get some feedback. Also if anyone is willing to sell one to pass on to another headfier, please PM me. Thanks.


----------



## grinny

Does someone connect their Fidelio X2 to M8 with headphone amp? I'm using the RCA outs of M8 to feed X2 now, but wondering if there will be any improvement in sound quality if I get the amp in between. Also it's getting little frustrating to use Windows volume controls, playing DSD needs volume to be %100, so thinking about getting an amplifier.


----------



## Cukedaddy

grinny said:


> Does someone connect their Fidelio X2 to M8 with headphone amp? I'm using the RCA outs of M8 to feed X2 now, but wondering if there will be any improvement in sound quality if I get the amp in between. Also it's getting little frustrating to use Windows volume controls, playing DSD needs volume to be %100, so thinking about getting an amplifier.


They should have made the M8 like the M6...I bought the M6 instead of the M8 because of the built in headphone amp


----------



## grinny

cukedaddy said:


> They should have made the M8 like the M6...I bought the M6 instead of the M8 because of the built in headphone amp


 
 Yea M6 looks sweet too, but wanted a seperate DAC/AMP solution for my future purchases (planning to go Planar in the future), so I got the M8. It's feeding X2 good but I'm getting frustrated of being without a volume knob So how do you like your M6 so far?


----------



## willowbrook

Does anyone have experience with Modi 2 for a comparison? Price is 2 times as much and I was wondering if the price can be justified since I've heard nice things about Modi 2. I personally do not use DSD playback or upscale, the filters would be nice to use though.


----------



## Cukedaddy

grinny said:


> Yea M6 looks sweet too, but wanted a seperate DAC/AMP solution for my future purchases (planning to go Planar in the future), so I got the M8. It's feeding X2 good but I'm getting frustrated of being without a volume knob So how do you like your M6 so far?


Love it... But the only other dac I've used before it was a $24 Muse... But my buddy has a Schitt Stack uberand the M6 is every bit as good as it... And less expensive


----------



## grinny

cukedaddy said:


> Love it... But the only other dac I've used before it was a $24 Muse... But my buddy has a Schitt Stack uberand the M6 is every bit as good as it... And less expensive


 
 I think SMSL really has some of the the best bargains in this market. I'm in love with my M8's sound/build quality too.


----------



## Cukedaddy

grinny said:


> I think SMSL really has some of the the best bargains in this market. I'm in love with my M8's sound/build quality too.


I'm thinking about getting one on Massdrop the next time it's dropped for $150, just to see how it compares to my M6


----------



## grinny

cukedaddy said:


> I'm thinking about getting one on Massdrop the next time it's dropped for $150, just to see how it compares to my M6


 
 Yea, would like to learn if there's audible differences between them.


----------



## grinny

dumpingground said:


> some nice hi rez internal pictures here:
> 
> http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429
> 
> but I cannot read the french to see they spell out the TCXO and I cannot see it on the board pics.


 
 As I understood, this article says that P1 improves the sound greatly. Did someone experience the same improvement?


----------



## wwmhf

I have decided to get one M8 DAC from the next massdrop


----------



## bongieto

grinny said:


> As I understood, this article says that P1 improves the sound greatly. Did someone experience the same improvement?


 

 I got a P1 for my M8 yesterday but I need to do a critical listening comparison later. I will give an update later. But as far as the build, looks like P1 is pretty well designed and solid build. It gets hot when operating.


----------



## wwmhf

Most of my DACs, before and present, scale up with better power supplies. I will not be surprised for anyone tells that this M8 DAC from SMSL performs better with a better power supply such as SMSL's P1. I will get this M8 DAC and I already have a plan about how to build a power supply for it myself.


----------



## wersuss

i have this power supply, through speakers sound is the same (good) with stock supply or linear.


----------



## Shredder11

The P1 power supply does indeed get very hot and to protect my M8 and VA2, I have pushed them backwards so they are tilted up with the front edge resting by a couple of millimetres on the back of the P1;  the W6 braided cables are only just long enough to make this possible.  This stops all the heat from the P1 rising up through the other two.
  
  
  
 devices.


----------



## bongieto

wersuss said:


> i have this power supply, through speakers sound is the same (good) with stock supply or linear.


 
 I did a basic listening test between the regular stock power supply and and the P1. It is indeed difficult to find the difference. Initially, I cannot hear it so I repeatedly switched between the two setup. Both are good but IMO there is slight improvement in clarity with the P1. The impact of drums is much better. The control in bass and extension is a tad better. The highs are better extended with the P1 also. Its pretty difficult to differentiate the two as I think the stock PS is also well made. By the way, I used iMac+SMSL M8+P1+ Lyr 2 to test it.


----------



## wwmhf

shredder11 said:


> The P1 power supply does indeed get very hot and to protect my M8 and VA2, I have pushed them backwards so they are tilted up with the front edge resting by a couple of millimetres on the back of the P1;  the W6 braided cables are only just long enough to make this possible.  This stops all the heat from the P1 rising up through the other two.
> 
> 
> 
> devices.


 
  
 The sealed case of that power supply definitely does not help for heat dissipation. Drill some holes ...


----------



## bnsb

..agent Pericross just delivered a package


----------



## grinny

Thanks everyone for P1 inputs!


----------



## wersuss

bongieto said:


> I did a basic listening test between the regular stock power supply and and the P1. It is indeed difficult to find the difference. Initially, I cannot hear it so I repeatedly switched between the two setup. Both are good but IMO there is slight improvement in clarity with the P1. The impact of drums is much better. The control in bass and extension is a tad better. The highs are better extended with the P1 also. Its pretty difficult to differentiate the two as I think the stock PS is also well made. By the way, I used iMac+SMSL M8+P1+ Lyr 2 to test it.


 

 Thank you for comparing! There's something to do with clarity definitely.


----------



## Shredder11

wwmhf said:


> The sealed case of that power supply definitely does not help for heat dissipation. Drill some holes ...


 

 That would let dust in although heat will kill it quicker than dust, so maybe it could be a good idea drilling holes.  Either that or place it inside a mini fridge!


----------



## wwmhf

shredder11 said:


> That would let dust in although heat will kill it quicker than dust, so maybe it could be a good idea drilling holes.  Either that or place it inside a mini fridge!


 
  
 Parts used in power supplies are usually not afraid of house dust much.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

Hey everyone.I have a few newbie questions if you don't mind.
  I want to try out DSD & 192/24 Streaming & Downloads.Source is Asus 555L & I use the Windows Media Player with over 1000 songs archived in WMA Lossless & FLAC.
  Is this unit Plug & Play with my setup?I would like to keep DSD Native for playback,any problem with my rig?Is there any advise you can give me on this unit with my gear as to set up or operation?Thanks very much for your replies...​


----------



## bongieto

e8armydiver said:


> Hey everyone.I have a few newbie questions if you don't mind.
> I want to try out DSD & 192/24 Streaming & Downloads.Source is Asus 555L & I use the Windows Media Player with over 1000 songs archived in WMA Lossless & FLAC.
> Is this unit Plug & Play with my setup?I would like to keep DSD Native for playback,any problem with my rig?Is there any advise you can give me on this unit with my gear as to set up or operation?Thanks very much for your replies...​


 

 Setting this up is pretty easy. Just like adding any regular pc peripheral; install drivers, make sure its setup to output the highest resolution supported by your pc. However, I would suggest getting a better player like Foobar or Jriver.


----------



## E8ArmyDiver

bongieto said:


> Setting this up is pretty easy. Just like adding any regular pc peripheral; install drivers, make sure its setup to output the highest resolution supported by your pc. However, I would suggest getting a better player like Foobar or Jriver.


 
 What is the difference between these & WMP?


----------



## bongieto

e8armydiver said:


> What is the difference between these & WMP?


 

 IMO, WMP is designed for regular use/users. There are not a lot of preferences to tweak the sound and support for some lossless file is missing. Foobar and Jriver are really designed for audiophile playback. Tons of tweak capabilities to support your preferences.


----------



## Progenitor

Does anyone noticed any issues with the Optical input for the M8? When I use the Optical output from the TV there's occasionally a <1 second drop out. Sometimes I can see "No signal" being displayed on the DAC, but it's not always. Replacing with my Chord Hugo works without any interruption, but I prefer the sound of the M8 in my living room setup (I think there's a better synergy with the M8 and my living room setup, rather than saying the Hugo isn't as good as the M8 - I know that's quite a statement to make!).


----------



## ririeiman

progenitor said:


> Does anyone noticed any issues with the Optical input for the M8? When I use the Optical output from the TV there's occasionally a <1 second drop out. Sometimes I can see "No signal" being displayed on the DAC, but it's not always. Replacing with my Chord Hugo works without any interruption, but I prefer the sound of the M8 in my living room setup (I think there's a better synergy with the M8 and my living room setup, rather than saying the Hugo isn't as good as the M8 - I know that's quite a statement to make!).


 
  possibly dirty port , u can use air compressor to clean that port . U can change it pretty easily too


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

I got mine, it's really good bang for the buck for sure. Sabre chip in a neat box. I can't figure out the reason for these "fast/slow/mini" settings though and it buggs me that it shuts itself off..


----------



## fritobugger

domakesaythink said:


> I got mine, it's really good bang for the buck for sure. Sabre chip in a neat box. I can't figure out the reason for these "fast/slow/mini" settings though and it buggs me that it shuts itself off..




Hold the power button for a few seconds to change to no auto shut off


----------



## louisjames

Been running one of these since getting it via Massdrop a couple of weeks back. For the price it's an excellent unit and has been getting better as I leave it on. I do find a big difference between the optical and USB but that was evident with other DAC's I've tried with my system. The optical has greater definition and space around the instruments but can be grating up top, while the USB is fuller on the bottom / mids but loses some clarity and articulation, especially in the top end.  What I wasn't prepared for was the difference in USB cables I tried.  The stock cable was pretty good albeit a bit "thin" sounding in comparison to the Schiit and Pangea cables I tried which imparted a fuller and warmer sound.  Now I wonder what stepping up to a Wireworld Starlight 7 USB cable would do?  Bottom line is I would highly recommend this DAC to anyone looking for a quality unit at a very good price.  One day I'd like to own a Ayre, Aqua or a Audio-gd Master level DAC but for now this little M8 is good enough, and even better than that.


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

louisjames said:


> Been running one of these since getting it via Massdrop a couple of weeks back. For the price it's an excellent unit and has been getting better as I leave it on. I do find a big difference between the optical and USB but that was evident with other DAC's I've tried with my system. The optical has greater definition and space around the instruments but can be grating up top, while the USB is fuller on the bottom / mids but loses some clarity and articulation, especially in the top end.  What I wasn't prepared for was the difference in USB cables I tried.  The stock cable was pretty good albeit a bit "thin" sounding in comparison to the Schiit and Pangea cables I tried which imparted a fuller and warmer sound.  Now I wonder what stepping up to a Wireworld Starlight 7 USB cable would do?  Bottom line is I would highly recommend this DAC to anyone looking for a quality unit at a very good price.  One day I'd like to own a Ayre, Aqua or a Audio-gd Master level DAC but for now this little M8 is good enough, and even better than that.


 

 The input was great until the USB cable part. Not that I don't believe you heard it, but I would recommend you doing a blind test and get back to us with results!


----------



## louisjames

I actually did do that the 2nd time around. Had the wife swap the cables while I listened over headphones so I could clearly hear the difference. Trust me, I'm certainly not into snake oil and as long as a cable is well made things should sound the same, but it was very apparent the the stock cable had a "lighter" sound to it than the others, and especially the Pangea. That said, I would have liked to have gained back a bit of the top-end clarity I felt was lost going from the stock cable to the Pangea, but there was a difference and to double check I had the wife listen too and she also noticed it. Logic tells me there should be no difference given a cable is of good quality, but my ears certainly heard it. Next up I'm going to record a couple of snippets with all 3 and see what happens on playback.  That all said, a very nice unit.


----------



## wersuss

For example i can't hear difference from 70 usd usb cable (furutech PCOCC) and double ended ferrite one which costed 12 usd. But i listen through speakers.


----------



## sharpi31

In case anyone is interested, the M8 works perfectly with an Rpi2 running Rune Audio (http://www.runeaudio.com/). DSD playback works perfectly - DoP can be activated in the settings.


----------



## hpamdr

sharpi31 said:


> In case anyone is interested, the M8 works perfectly with an Rpi2 running Rune Audio (http://www.runeaudio.com/). DSD playback works perfectly - DoP can be activated in the settings.


 
 Great new i did some try with modded Rpi1 but had some trouble with high Res file.....
 Do you use standard usb cable and music on NAS or locally via usb Stick ?


----------



## sharpi31

My music is on a NAS. For whatever reason the small Edimax USB wifi device didn't provide a stable connection (it does with same RPi running Volumio and playing 24/96 waves) so I have a wired network connection to an Airport Express, acting as wireless bridge to my router.


----------



## Apografon

A very interesting product indeed...


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

I used an EU adapter for the US cable and it works fine.. does that answer it?


----------



## P701

apografon said:


> A very interesting product indeed...



 

Very interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## rootscript

djbobby said:


> M6 uses AK4390EF, M8 uses ES9018. Their parallel line Sanskrit in the latest version uses WM8740 and in Sanskrit PRO-B Ak4490EQ. Four different DAC models using 4 different chips, so it's hard to judge which is their overall philosophy.


 
 I am undecided as to whether to buy the SMSL M8 or the SMSL Sanskrit PRO-B.
 I wonder if anyone has both who can give us a comparison?
  
_I see that the AK4390EF is the same chip used here _http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/68-768khz32bit-ak4490eq-dac-i2sdsd-input.html​


----------



## DjBobby

rootscript said:


> I am undecided as to whether to buy the SMSL M8 or the SMSL Sanskrit PRO-B.
> I wonder if anyone has both who can give us a comparison?
> 
> _I see that the AK4390EF is the same chip used here _http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/68-768khz32bit-ak4490eq-dac-i2sdsd-input.html​


 

 Sanskrit PRO-B has a bluetooth function. It probably weights a little bit on the overall price. AK4490 has less digital glare, ES9018 is very detailed with a holographic soundstage, but could sound a little bit analytical. Depends on your headphones pairing, imho M8 for Senns and Audezes, PRO-B for Beyers and AKGs.


----------



## bongieto

I have 3 of SMSL's product and they're all great (m8, p1 and VA2). So I think they really know what they're doing. I think you will never go wrong with either m8 or Sanskrit Pro B. I am also interested to know if its good or not. Looks like its good but I cannot find a review anywhere.


----------



## bwcgrx

I also own the m8,va2,p1 SMSL combo and they are excellent products in terms of performance regardless of price.
  
 I'm curious as to how the Sanskrit Pro B performs in comparison.  I also have an Aune S16 DAC and it uses an AKM DAC from the same line as used in the Pro B.  It is not an apples to apples comparison however I think the AKM DAC may have a warmer and more spacious overall sound signature vs the more detailed and etched quality of Sabre based m8.  Again the two DACs have entirely different implementations so in such comparisons the DAC chip used only accounts for a portion of the sound presentation and quality.
  
 I can say that if the SMSL m8 combo is any indication then the SMSL Panda stack should be a set outstanding products.


----------



## bongieto

I agree. SMSL is really cranking up great products. like my SMSL stack can stand against any similar gear double its price IMO. I believe there are a lot of SMSL users already out there. That is why I am surprised why there seems to be very little interest online about the Sanskrit line.


----------



## rootscript

bongieto said:


> I agree. SMSL is really cranking up great products. like my SMSL stack can stand against any similar gear double its price IMO. I believe there are a lot of SMSL users already out there. That is why I am surprised why there seems to be very little interest online about the Sanskrit line.


 
 This is the only review of the SMSL Sanskrit Pro that I could find: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-sanskrit-pro-up-to-24-bit177669
  
 - and a review of the whole SMSL Panda stack on the same website: http://www.qobuz.com/GB-en/info/Hi-Res-Guide/S-M-S-L-Panda-System-the-power-of177725
  
 - and finally their review of the SMSL M8 DAC: http://www.qobuz.com/GB-en/info/Hi-Res-Guide/S-M-S-L-M8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528 
  
 As I don't own any SMSL products yet, I'm hoping that some M8 owners can read the M8 & Sanskrit Pro B reviews & probably and be in a better position to speculate as to how they both sound / perform in comparison.
  
 I suppose I am looking for clarity, detail and separation from a DAC, as I can always add warmth (if needed) using my tube preamp Schiit Vali 2.  From what has been written by M8 users above, it 'appears' that the M8 is the way to go, but let's hope someone buys a Sanskrit Pro B and can comment.  It appears the the Sanskrit Pro B was released after M8 (but i could be wrong) so you would presume that it 'might be better' (just a guess (which could be wrong)).


----------



## bwcgrx

rootscript said:


> This is the only review of the SMSL Sanskrit Pro that I could find: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-sanskrit-pro-up-to-24-bit177669
> 
> - and a review of the whole SMSL Panda stack on the same website: http://www.qobuz.com/GB-en/info/Hi-Res-Guide/S-M-S-L-Panda-System-the-power-of177725
> 
> ...


 
  
 You may want to keep an eye on the SMSL Panda thread started by gugman.  THREAD LINK  He has ordered the Sanskrit Pro B and will have it soon.
  
 I almost ordered the Sanskrit Pro B over the weekend from Amazon Warehousedeals as there was an like new open box unit for $180.  I drug my feet for too long and someone else snagged it.
  
 I doubt you would be disappointed by the M8 as a DAC.  Also, one difference I noticed between the M8 and the Sanskrit Pro.... It appears that the Sanskrit Pro has no informational display other than which input has been selected.  The M8 will indicate the selected input, incoming sample rate, and current digital filter selected.  All the pictures I'm seen of the Sanskrit Pro show no such text display.


----------



## willowbrook

On MD for $149.99 with just 9 people for a week. Ship date is a month from now though. I would really like to compare Modi 2U to this...damn


----------



## bongieto

willowbrook said:


> On MD for $149.99 with just 9 people for a week. Ship date is a month from now though. I would really like to compare Modi 2U to this...damn


 

 i had both modi 2 uber and SMSl m8. both have good qualities but M8 is much better. i sold modi and i still am using my M8 everyday. that should give you an idea.


----------



## willowbrook

bongieto said:


> i had both modi 2 uber and SMSl m8. both have good qualities but M8 is much better. i sold modi and i still am using my M8 everyday. that should give you an idea.


 
 Can you specify the "much better" part? Coming from different DAC chips, there could be a difference brightness and overall body. I highly doubt m8 would give a massive improvement though.


----------



## bongieto

willowbrook said:


> Can you specify the "much better" part? Coming from different DAC chips, there could be a difference brightness and overall body. I highly doubt m8 would give a massive improvement though.


 

 IMO, M8 is more detailed. Less fatiguing. Bass is more controlled. I never had problem with brightness on both. Modi is really smooth but sometimes affects details wherein M8 really shines. Overall, i just liked M8 more. Might not be a lot difference. Might be different for your ears but thats how i heard it though.


----------



## willowbrook

bongieto said:


> IMO, M8 is more detailed. Less fatiguing. Bass is more controlled. I never had problem with brightness on both. Modi is really smooth but sometimes affects details wherein M8 really shines. Overall, i just liked M8 more. Might not be a lot difference. Might be different for your ears but thats how i heard it though.


 
 I've actually been searching for one for weeks about 2 months ago. Missed every single used postings by hours. M8 is extremely popular locally and I could probably put one up with minimal loss. I will probably give it a try, but their support worries me and I hope M8 doesn't have that typical sabre glare that adds sibilance. Thanks for your comparison.


----------



## bongieto

willowbrook said:


> I've actually been searching for one for weeks about 2 months ago. Missed every single used postings by hours. M8 is extremely popular locally and I could probably put one up with minimal loss. I will probably give it a try, but their support worries me and I hope M8 doesn't have that typical sabre glare that adds sibilance. Thanks for your comparison.


 

 Just like any other DAC, it is not perfect. But for its price/performance ratio, you won't go wrong with M8. It will surely beat some DAC twice or 3x its price. It needs burnin though. I tend not to believe on those burnin things, but I experienced it. The M8 is better after at least 50 hours. Even its accompanying, VA 2 amp, It sounds like **** when I first got it that I am about to sell it. I left it on for a few days and when it tried again, OMG, it sounds so good.


----------



## willowbrook

bongieto said:


> Just like any other DAC, it is not perfect. But for its price/performance ratio, you won't go wrong with M8. It will surely beat some DAC twice or 3x its price. It needs burnin though. I tend not to believe on those burnin things, but I experienced it. The M8 is better after at least 50 hours. Even its accompanying, VA 2 amp, It sounds like **** when I first got it that I am about to sell it. I left it on for a few days and when it tried again, OMG, it sounds so good.


 
 Glad you're enjoying your M8 ^^


----------



## bwcgrx

willowbrook said:


> I've actually been searching for one for weeks about 2 months ago. Missed every single used postings by hours. M8 is extremely popular locally and I could probably put one up with minimal loss. I will probably give it a try, but their support worries me and I hope M8 doesn't have that typical sabre glare that adds sibilance. Thanks for your comparison.


 
  
 Willowbrook... based on my own experience with the M8 I doubt you would notice any glare or sibilance other than what is cooked into the recorded material you are listening to.  Brighter more aggressively mastered material will sound more harsh and sibilant.  I've found the M8 to be detailed and even warm sounding on well mastered material especially when paired with a nice amp like the Gustard H10, Asgard 2, Supreme Sound Lycan just to name those I've used.  I personally have come to the conclusion that the Sabre glare issue is overblown anyway.  I've yet to hear an implementation of a Sabre DAC where the DAC was more to blame for sibilance and glare than either source material or amplification.


----------



## misfits73

Any link to get the latest firmware and the update utilty?


----------



## willowbrook

Damn, you guys have me really wanting one. However, I think I'll hold off for now as my budget is limited and I have to upgrade my IEMs. Modi 2U does a good job for me right now. I hope the M8 becomes popular enough to be included in big lists of DACs.


----------



## Joong

In certain setting, or EMI conditions maybe...the performance is comparable to X20, which is considered one of the best in DAC world.


----------



## bnsb

I am using the SMSL stack for 
about a month now. Very capable combo,and Many have described its capabilities better than I would. This post is about an additional little box I bought. It is Elfidelity USB purifier, bought it more out of curiosity and hope than expectations. Started using it two days earlier.I have found clear perceptible change in music I hear. It is almost like changing a tube in tube amp.Sound separation is more pronounced, vocals are sweet and mellowed treble is not longer shrill or irritatating. On the negative side bass has come down too and now I have to turn Amp snotch higher. Has anyone else used a dongle like this - USB decappifier- and have experienced similar result?


----------



## P701

bnsb said:


> I am using the SMSL stack for
> 
> about a month now. Very capable combo,and Many have described its capabilities better than I would. This post is about an additional little box I bought. It is Elfidelity USB purifier, bought it more out of curiosity and hope than expectations. Started using it two days earlier.I have found clear perceptible change in music I hear. It is almost like changing a tube in tube amp.Sound separation is more pronounced, vocals are sweet and mellowed treble is not longer shrill or irritatating. On the negative side bass has come down too and now I have to turn Amp snotch higher. Has anyone else used a dongle like this - USB decappifier- and have experienced similar result?



 

Just had to google what the heck is "Elfidelity USB purifier" and how in the world could it change the sound in the digital transfer of USB.
Seems its just a box of bunch of capacitors added for USB's 5V power section?
Besides, Doesnt SMSL products use external power supplies, so maybe the change in the sound is just your imagination?


----------



## bnsb

Honestly, I too thought the same, till I tried the same song at same volume levels with and without this idiot box. The change is perceptible and positive. Only explanation is steady power has some effect. I am intrigued.


----------



## P701

bnsb said:


> Honestly, I too thought the same, till I tried the same song at same volume levels with and without this idiot box. The change is perceptible and positive. Only explanation is steady power has some effect. I am intrigued.



 

But the SMSL M8 uses external +9V power supply, not USB's +5V. SMSL VA2 uses external +12V, not USB's +5V.
Not using the USB +5V supply, so only way that "USB box" may change the sound is by wirelessly sending positive energy to the SMSL products. Unless it is filtering the digital data of zeros and 1's more sharper going to the DAC?


----------



## bnsb

p701 said:


> bnsb said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I too thought the same, till I tried the same song at same volume levels with and without this idiot box. The change is perceptible and positive. Only explanation is steady power has some effect. I am intrigued.
> ...


----------



## bnsb

I would like you Google Schiit Pyst and/or Pangea USB cable.You will find many swearing by them to improve USB sound. How could mere cable improve 0s and 1s?


----------



## hpamdr

bnsb said:


> I would like you Google Schiit Pyst and/or Pangea USB cable.You will find many swearing by them to improve USB sound. How could mere cable improve 0s and 1s?


 

 It is the same as when you go to the analyst, if you spend some $$$ you cannot have any benefit... So whem you buy expensive cable ypu always find it beter...
 But you nees to have cable with good shielding to prevent RFI "noise" and big enough section  and well soldered / assembled plug..


----------



## bnsb

bnsb said:


> I would like you Google Schiit Pyst and/or Pangea USB cable.You will find many swearing by them to improve USB sound. How could mere cable improve 0s and 1s?


 You have a valid point. The USB cable that came with this box is one of the best I have seen. Thick and we'll insulated.


----------



## P701

bnsb said:


> You have a valid point. The USB cable that came with this box is one of the best I have seen. Thick and we'll insulated.



 

But your point on that USB box/cable changing sound in those SMSL products still doesnt make point, even after doing your tests again. Since the SMSL products does not use the USB power line, which your "box" (and/or cable) is "enhanching"/filtering power noise. It only uses the digital data going through the USB. It is digital, it works or it doesnt, it wont alter your sound, it is not analog data. Your devices communicate with 1's and 0's, they understand eachothers either by 1 or 0 and there wont be more round or flat 0, no sharper or taller 1.
It is like buying an expensive HDMI cable for monitor/tv and saying "wow, the colors are so alive and accurate and picture is alot sharper", while that $5 cable is doing the same job.


----------



## bnsb

p701 said:


> bnsb said:
> 
> 
> > You have a valid point. The USB cable that came with this box is one of the best I have seen. Thick and we'll insulated.
> ...


My money is where my mouth is, you can choose to disbelieve, no problem. On the point of USB digital signal to Dac, here is a link to review , of similar Schiit product: https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/schiit-wyrd-usb-decrapifier-review


----------



## bnsb

There is another 500 post discussion on this forum too


----------



## rootscript

bnsb said:


> My money is where my mouth is, you can choose to disbelieve, no problem. On the point of USB digital signal to Dac, here is a link to review , of similar Schiit product: https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/09/schiit-wyrd-usb-decrapifier-review


 
 I tend to aggree with you that the cable & or 'decrapifiers' can 'change' the sound from your DAC.  I was a little sceptical at first thinking digital 0s & 1s is digital verbatim.  Take a look at this video called "Audiophile USB Cables - Are they worth it?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKP1NAqvvJ4
  
 A friend of mine told me that he auditioned /  trialled the whole suite of iFi products; the power solutions will no nothing if you don't have a problem with your USB power, and the 'purifiers' could change your system sound for better or worse, in his case it was worse.


----------



## rootscript

I've been thinking about this issue with filters & linear power supplies.  The way I see it is even if the 0s & 1s data comes across perfect, there still might be an opamp inside the DAC that controls the 2V signal out of the DAC.
 So if your 5V power into the DAC is a little under, or the 5V regulators in the DAC are a liitle inaccurate, 'MAYBE' the DAC 'MIGHT' produce some distortion or crackle, which some people might (quite reasonable) believe is interference.
  
 Recently I was told that you can get 'dirty power' where your AC is polluted with DC from other items in your room/system, so I decided to invest in a AG500 AC ReGenerator 500W, which takes your fluctuating AC from your mains power socket any provides a stable with no spikes AC output for all your sensitive equipment.
  
 "AC ReGenerator is a true online double conversion system providing the highest degrees of power protection, with a stable unwavering high quality power waveform for sensitive and critical loads."
  
 I think that cleaning up/regulating your power supplies is better than filtering out noise causing by dirty power, or other low/non stable power issues.  So prevent the problem, rather than try to remove the symptoms.
  
 All of these power & filter remedies will totally be dependent on the rest of the system, which is why some people will swear that they can hear a difference & others can't.
  
 I hope this information, based on my own personal experience, might help someone else with a similar problem, and maybe help others from spending too much fixing the symptoms rather than finding the root of the problem. )
  
 I spent the week looking at 'decrapifiers' /  USB purifiers, because of what I thought might be interference, but I followed the advice from my knowledgable friend & invested in an AC Regenerator; and I have not had any problems at all.
  
 Now that my system has the cleanest power possible, I am happy that I have reached the limits in terms of quality of my current Audioengine D1 DAC, and want to buy something like the SMSL M8.
 If the power supply for the M8 is a SMPS (switched mode power supply), I may be tempted/'talk myslef into thinking I need it', and buy a SMSL P1 Linear power supply, but I am gonna wait and see, and just used the supplied wal wart to start with.  If I don't have any problems I'll stick with the supplied wal wart.  I think it is worth noting that the quality of SMPS can vary, it is quite easy to get a dud or model that hasn't been tested to within a particular tolerance (even from the same manufacturer).  The SMSL  P1 looks to on the list of items to test in the future.
 But if I do have problems with the SMSL M8 (and have money to improve my system) I'll look 1st to a linear power supply (P1), 2nd to a decent shielded USB cable (no need to go to extremes, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 0.5m is the best I would get (If I had some money to burn)).
 My current mode of thinking (and the advice of my friend) is that USB filters WILL change the sound of your DAC (for better or worse), so 3rd I won't be looking at USB filters.
  
 Reclockers are a totally different conversation I think, and repeaters in USB filter products might help some people 'FIX' their system with long USB cable runs (but it would be better to use a screened/shorter cable in the first place).
  
 So just a final note to say that I can totally believe that some people can hear a difference & others can't, because it is dependent on the other items in your system (including your mains power supply on 'THAT' day).
  
 If you do a search on youtube for 'Audiophile USB Cables - Are they worth it?', you'll find someone who has proof of a difference, but remember that is proof dependent on his setup, and the guy also states clearly that although he can prove that their is a 'difference', it is only his 'opinion' as to which is 'better'.


----------



## bnsb

Hi, Thanks for a detailed discussion on the subject of 1s and 0s . Regarding VMV SMSL stack ( P1, VA2 and M8) wait for good price. The dealers now and then offer a good discounted price. You will not be disappointed with the quality of the product.


----------



## wersuss

Hi.Yes, you are right just wait for good price, i bought my M8 for 175usd and P1 for 110. It was on ebay.co.uk


----------



## bnsb

I bought the whole stack  ebay.co.uk for GBP240, equal to about $360. The listed price then on ebay.com was $525 to $535. Lucky me


----------



## DjBobby

willowbrook said:


> On MD for $149.99 with just 9 people for a week. Ship date is a month from now though. I would really like to compare Modi 2U to this...damn


 
  
 Thanks a lot for bringing this up. I was eyeballing last 3 massdrops, but could not decide to pull the trigger yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


bwcgrx said:


> Willowbrook... based on my own experience with the M8 I doubt you would notice any glare or sibilance other than what is cooked into the recorded material you are listening to.  Brighter more aggressively mastered material will sound more harsh and sibilant.  I've found the M8 to be detailed and even warm sounding on well mastered material especially when paired with a nice amp like the Gustard H10, Asgard 2, Supreme Sound Lycan just to name those I've used.  I personally have come to the conclusion that the Sabre glare issue is overblown anyway.  I've yet to hear an implementation of a Sabre DAC where the DAC was more to blame for sibilance and glare than either source material or amplification.


 
  
 Many thanks for this detailed review. SMSL M8 looks like a great deal, especially with a recent massdrop price of $150. 
 Since I departed from Magni2U/Modi2U because of sibilance, I am cautious not to come into the similar sound sig. Still could not decide after reading on Burson's website about the ES9018 and PCM1973 modules.
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/9018dac-pcb/
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/1793dac-pcb/
  
 As Burson stated that "The 1793 has the classic Burr Brown sound; it’s warm, engaging, relaxing, full of texture and a bit analog sounding without the ultimate resolution of the Sabre 9018." That sounds like ES9018 doesn't sound that warm, relaxing and analog. At the moment I am using SMSL Sanskrit 6, which uses WM8740 chip, and you could copy/paste the above remark about the 1793. Warm, relaxing, analog, but I am missing sometimes the higher resolution and more details.
 Now eyeballing my 4th M8 Massdrop. 5 days left....


----------



## hpamdr

The Ess9018 is very detailled and can be bright if the output stage of the dac is not fast and controlled.. The SMSL M8 when well powered is not too bright at all but reach a high level of transparency and very dynamic response !
 To really exploit the M8 use a 9V linear power as the P1 or the Panda LPS (if you want to stay with SMSL) or any other good linear power supply.. Use a short USB cable or the original one it is well built.
  
 After, if you prefer warmer sound an do have flexibility with the amplifier you will find the best  settings at later stage. IMHO it is best to keep ad very transparent sound signature ad you can always tweek the later stages.


----------



## Gozzie

I received my SMSL M8 DAC this weekend.” Wow” was the first opinion I had. It was easy to install and to operate using the Jriver software player with windows 10. I noticed an immediate improvement over the DAC built into my older Onkyo receiver. The music has more clarity, detail and less distortion. It didn’t magically fix any bad sources but the good sources sounded so much better. Saturday I received a little Chinese 2 tube buffer preamp I purchased for $40.00. I placed it between the M8 DAC and the Onkyo receiver and my whole audio system opened up and came to life. I didn’t realize that these 2 little Chinese components could make such a difference to the music. The little tube buffer just seems to smooth out any harshness or rough edges and the music just became” easy to listen to”. I noticed myself listening to my songs at a little louder level and for much longer without getting that fatigue. I became a quick believer that the Chineese are really starting to put out some quality audio products. I just ordered a little tone board with treble, midrange and bass controls that I will install inside the tube buffer to help me really dial in the sounds to my liking. At these prices the SMSL M8 DAC in my opinion just cannot be beat. I am very happy with my purchase.
  
 Gozzie


----------



## davewolfs

Probably a silly question but between the M8 and something like the Schiit Modi Uber or Bitfrost what can I expect?  I am using JBL 305's for now, but would likely expand this to something else later e.g. JBL 530's.


----------



## rootscript

Schiit Modi 2 uses AKM4396, Schiit Bifrost uses AKM Verita AK4490, SMSL M8 uses Sabre ES9018K2M.  If you are going to upgrade to JBL 530s th


davewolfs said:


> Probably a silly question but between the M8 and something like the Schiit Modi Uber or Bitfrost what can I expect?  I am using JBL 305's for now, but would likely expand this to something else later e.g. JBL 530's.


 
 Schiit Modi 2 uses AKM4396, Schiit Bifrost uses AKM Verita AK4490, SMSL M8 uses Sabre ES9018K2M. Whatever DAC you buy, you will only really hear it's quality based on the rest of your system.  The JBL 305s may be the 'weakest link' in your system, so upgrading to a pretty decent pair of JBL 530s is a good idea (I think)




  
I've just upgraded my desktop system from Audioengine A2+ to B&W XT2; I'm still using my Audioengine D1 DAC until my SMSL M8 DAC arrives.  One thing I noticed after my upgrade to B&W is that my system sounds pretty awesome now, and any small tweaks to my system I CAN hear the difference.  When I was using the previous A2+ speakers I now realise that they 'deadened' the rest on my system.
  
So the moral of my little story is if you want to get the biggest improvement by adding a new DAC, you should also upgrade the weakest link in your system (which may be your JBL 305s).  The JBL 530 that you want to upgrade to are 6ohm & 86dB sensitivity, and it also looks like you can bi-wire them too. Depending on what you are going to power them with will determine how much fun you are going to have, but i think you are doing the right thing upgrading your speakers to some of that quality.
  
I think the SMSL M8 is a great building block due to the clarity & detail described by others above. I would prefer clarity DACs over warm DACs, as you can always add warmth with tubes at the pre-amp or amp stage & tailor any tube swapping to 'balance' your system to more clarity or warmth.
  
I hope that gives you a few ideas of where you can go once you get your JBL 530s


----------



## rootscript

1 day left on the SMSL M8 DAC on MassDrop website: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-m8.  At *$​**149​**.99 ​*I think this is a well advised buy


----------



## willowbrook

rootscript said:


> 1 day left on the SMSL M8 DAC on MassDrop website: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-m8.  At *$​**149​**.99 ​*I think this is a well advised buy


 

 DAC itself is an excellent buy, no doubt. However, people suggesting linear power makes a difference adds additional cost to about $300 total to get the most out of it. This turns some people off and the fact that there isn't an extensive review and detailed comparisons. I think it's an excellent deal for newcomers into standalone DAC, but if you already have a decent DAC might as well save up for something like bimby. Of course, if you are willing to spend that much on DAC your amp and headphones or IEMs or speakers would be somewhat high end. I still think it's an excellent deal, but not so much appealing for existing owners of other DAC.


----------



## DjBobby

willowbrook said:


> DAC itself is an excellent buy, no doubt. However, people suggesting linear power makes a difference adds additional cost to about $300 total to get the most out of it. This turns some people off and the fact that there isn't an extensive review and detailed comparisons. I think it's an excellent deal for newcomers into standalone DAC, but if you already have a decent DAC might as well save up for something like bimby. Of course, if you are willing to spend that much on DAC your amp and headphones or IEMs or speakers would be somewhat high end. I still think it's an excellent deal, but not so much appealing for existing owners of other DAC.


 

 On French website Qobuz there was a review of the SMSL M8, stating that using the power supply didn't get that much difference. They wrote: "In essence, this addition proved to be nothing exceptional; the M8 works perfectly in its basic configuration." 
Here is the Google translate (sometimes funny) translation of the original French review: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528


----------



## fritobugger

djbobby said:


> On French website Qobuz there was a review of the SMSL M8, stating that using the power supply didn't get that much difference. They wrote: "In essence, this addition proved to be nothing exceptional; the M8 works perfectly in its basic configuration."
> Here is the Google translate (sometimes funny) translation of the original French review: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528


 
  
 The M8 is perfectly fine with the standard power supply that comes with it.  I used it with the standard power supply for quite some time before I found a deal on the P1 linear power supply.  Once I got the P1, I could not discern any difference in the sound quality.


----------



## willowbrook

djbobby said:


> On French website Qobuz there was a review of the SMSL M8, stating that using the power supply didn't get that much difference. They wrote: "In essence, this addition proved to be nothing exceptional; the M8 works perfectly in its basic configuration."
> Here is the Google translate (sometimes funny) translation of the original French review: http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528


 
 Thanks for the link.


fritobugger said:


> The M8 is perfectly fine with the standard power supply that comes with it.  I used it with the standard power supply for quite some time before I found a deal on the P1 linear power supply.  Once I got the P1, I could not discern any difference in the sound quality.


 
 Good to hear that. 
  
 Does anyone know where the SMSL M8 is shipped from if you order it through MD?


----------



## DjBobby

willowbrook said:


> Does anyone know where the SMSL M8 is shipped from if you order it through MD?


 
 As far as I understand, they collect the mass order in US, and ship from there individually. This time I've pulled the trigger, joining the drop


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

Good call, i got it last drop. very cute small dac, sounds great.


----------



## willowbrook

djbobby said:


> As far as I understand, they collect the mass order in US, and ship from there individually. This time I've pulled the trigger, joining the drop


 
 My country just changed the regulation in December for customs fee that if value of goods is under $150, it is tax free. Surprisingly, M8 is 149.99 haha I guess it's a sign for me to join this drop.


----------



## GeoffW

This French site reviewed and definitely recommended the P1, if you can translate it:
 http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429
  
 I have the whole M8 stack and I notice a definite improvement - richer, better soundstage. You need good headphones. The P1 also improves the VA2 amp - probably to a greater extent than the M8. But even without the VA2, I notice a definite improvement from the P1 .
  
 Also, if you are using the W6 cable that sometimes comes with the stack, you might think about replacing it with silver or silver-plated interconnects to hear improvement from the P1. The W6 is a good cable, but seems to cut off the top end of the sound way too much. I have home-made silver-plated interconnects that are much clearer and richer, and I'm in the process of making pure silver ICs. Short length, so not too expensive.


----------



## willowbrook

Some links I found on MD.
http://www.musicservertips.com/product-reviews/smsl-m8-dac/
http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528
http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429


----------



## lvandrewazar

Anyone have a comparison to the Sanskirt 6th gen?


----------



## Shure or bust

I've got an smsl m8. I'm curious what would be a step up dac wise?


----------



## willowbrook

Joined the drop! I look forward to comparing it to my Modi 2U myself. Waiting for a month is going to be a pain


----------



## emester

Bit the bullet and joined the current drop for this rather than opting for an ODAC. 
  
 This is going to replace my AudioEngine D1 as the volume controls when I use the unit with my O2 amp get screwed up and get very annoying. Crossing my fingers that i didn't just shoot my wallet in the foot for nothing.


----------



## DjBobby

lvandrewazar said:


> Anyone have a comparison to the Sanskirt 6th gen?


 
  I have Sanskrit 6th, and just ordered M8, so comparative review coming soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Quote:


willowbrook said:


> Joined the drop! I look forward to comparing it to my Modi 2U myself. Waiting for a month is going to be a pain


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions. I sold my Modi2U, and have as well long waiting for M8 ahead. It's difficult to compare from the memory, so am curious to hear your thoughts once you have them side by side.


----------



## varzyl

djbobby said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. I sold my Modi2U, and have as well long waiting for M8 ahead.




Can you compare the modi 2u to the sanskrit 6? Thanks


----------



## DjBobby

varzyl said:


> Can you compare the modi 2u to the sanskrit 6? Thanks


 

 Modi2u sounded too bright to my ears, in combination with Magni2U often annoyingly sibilant. There was a brilliance and plenty of details, but I couldn't listen for long without fatiguing my ears. Also the soundstage was congested, and sometimes the high strings in orchestral music sounded a little bit too shiny.
 Sanskrit6 is more spacious, more relaxed, more laid back, smooth, and has probably the deepest bass you can get in this price range, courtesy of WM8740. It is a little bit veiled in the treble, especially if you compare it with Modi2U, but overall it is much more pleasure to listen to. I can put my headphones and listen for hours, forgetting about the time.


----------



## utee05

djbobby said:


> Modi2u sounded too bright to my ears, in combination with Magni2U often annoyingly sibilant. There was a brilliance and plenty of details, but I couldn't listen for long without fatiguing my ears. Also the soundstage was congested, and sometimes the high strings in orchestral music sounded a little bit too shiny.
> Sanskrit6 is more spacious, more relaxed, more laid back, smooth, and has probably the deepest bass you can get in this price range, courtesy of WM8740. It is a little bit veiled in the treble, especially if you compare it with Modi2U, but overall it is much more pleasure to listen to. I can put my headphones and listen for hours, forgetting about the time.



Thanks for that comparison. I recently got the modi2u and also noticed it being a lot brighter and harsh. Didn't work well with my he400 which are already bright to begin with. 

To bad I missed out on the drop. This would have been a good price to get it at. I was originally going to take the plunge on getting a bifrost but have been looking for alternatives. My current setup I have a lyr and listen to flac on foobar and Spotify premium on my win10 pc.


----------



## utee05

Any comparison to the bifrost 4490?


----------



## teamjona21

Hi guys, does anyone know how the SMSL stack (m8,va2, p1) compares with the sound blaster creative x7? Also, has anyone tried smsl after sale support or warranty as i have seen some people claiming that the after sale support is appalling.


----------



## Shredder11

teamjona21 said:


> Hi guys, does anyone know how the SMSL stack (m8,va2, p1) compares with the sound blaster creative x7? Also, has anyone tried smsl after sale support or warranty as i have seen some people claiming that the after sale support is appalling.


 
  
 I have the SMSL stack and having used many Soundblaster products down the years, I would say the SMSL would blow its sorry arse out of the water.  The SMSL lacks support for surround sound though, so if that is important to you I would look for something else.


----------



## SwissMade

Hello guys.
  
 I have problem to connect to SMSL Official Site. I need the driver for win 10 for SMSL M8? Can we upload the installation driver in a cloud service? Thank you.


----------



## DjBobby

swissmade said:


> Hello guys.
> 
> I have problem to connect to SMSL Official Site. I need the driver for win 10 for SMSL M8? Can we upload the installation driver in a cloud service? Thank you.


 

 Try this: http://www.smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=msg&id=1363&


----------



## SwissMade

Yeah thank you, now this i can download it


----------



## SwissMade

P.S. I cannot open the compressed file....Anything that it have just decompressed? Sorry, but I need this.


----------



## utee05

Hi,
 Is this the correct SMSL M8 to get from amazon?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-Optical-Coaxial-Asynchronous-decoder/dp/B00PS0WLX6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456241074&sr=8-1&keywords=smsl+m8
  
 I noticed there are a couple of different ones being sold on there but this one is sold by pericross.


----------



## willowbrook

utee05 said:


> Hi,
> Is this the correct SMSL M8 to get from amazon?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-Optical-Coaxial-Asynchronous-decoder/dp/B00PS0WLX6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456241074&sr=8-1&keywords=smsl+m8
> ...



I heard someone made an offer to pericross on ebay for 180 IIRC and got the deal. M8 also comes on MD every month or two for 150~160. But yes that is the one.


----------



## bongieto

yes. thats the one. usually Pericross takes reasonable offers on eBay. I got my P1 from him for way less than usual retail. Shenzhen audio is also a reliable seller. I got my M8 from them on a flash sale for $118 dollars shipped. You'll never go wrong with Amazon sellers. Returns are always seamless.


----------



## willowbrook

bongieto said:


> yes. thats the one. usually Pericross takes reasonable offers on eBay. I got my P1 from him for way less than usual retail. Shenzhen audio is also a reliable seller. I got my M8 from them on a flash sale for $118 dollars shipped. You'll never go wrong with Amazon sellers. Returns are always seamless.



That must have been the best deal during life time.


----------



## bongieto

willowbrook said:


> That must have been the best deal during life time.


 
 Oh hell yah! I got my whole stack (P1, VA2 and M8) for only $303 which sounds like a $1000 and more. I got lucky with my stack. Shenzhen audio had a sale on my M8, Pericross gave me a great deal on my P1 and Amazon mistakenly gave me a black VA2 (they sent me a silver one for 50% off).


----------



## wwmhf

bongieto said:


> Oh hell yah! I got my whole stack (P1, VA2 and M8) for only $303 which sounds like a $1000 and more. I got lucky with my stack. Shenzhen audio had a sale on my M8, Pericross gave me a great deal on my P1 and Amazon mistakenly gave me a black VA2 (they sent me a silver one for 50% off).


 
  
 You were really lucky.


----------



## jthom320

Does anyone have an idea how this compares to a Peachtree DAC ITx?  It uses an older ESS 9023 chip.  I'm just curious if anyone's heard both and had thoughts.
  
 I like the Peachtree and I'm using it with an Asgard 2 which I like as well.  I don't know I don't have a huge issue with either product and I especially like the controls on the Peachtree DAC.  I'm just kind of curious about trying some new gear.  I'd prefer something slightly warmer or more musical sounding.


----------



## DjBobby

jthom320 said:


> Does anyone have an idea how this compares to a Peachtree DAC ITx?  It uses an older ESS 9023 chip.  I'm just curious if anyone's heard both and had thoughts.
> 
> I like the Peachtree and I'm using it with an Asgard 2 which I like as well.  I don't know I don't have a huge issue with either product and I especially like the controls on the Peachtree DAC.  I'm just kind of curious about trying some new gear.  I'd prefer something slightly warmer or more musical sounding.


 

 Don't know about the Peachtree, but have SMSL M2 and Shanling DR.2.1, both using ESS 9023. I don't think you'll get much different sound sig with M8. If you want warmer and more musical sounding DAC, you should check something with WM8740 (like SMSL Sanskrit6), or with PCM1793.


----------



## Shure or bust

jthom320 said:


> Does anyone have an idea how this compares to a Peachtree DAC ITx?  It uses an older ESS 9023 chip.  I'm just curious if anyone's heard both and had thoughts.
> 
> I like the Peachtree and I'm using it with an Asgard 2 which I like as well.  I don't know I don't have a huge issue with either product and I especially like the controls on the Peachtree DAC.  I'm just kind of curious about trying some new gear.  I'd prefer something slightly warmer or more musical sounding.


I came from a dacitx and a asgard 2. I didn't do a comparison. But the m8 is more detailed and neutral.


----------



## kimvictor

I got a lemon...it creates a audible hum when playing low frequency.
  
 Tried everything, including:
 optical input, different computers(different OS too), different USB ports, different power plugs, different computer volume(which should always be set to max anyways), different filter, and even different headphones. Nothing worked. Hopefully Massdrop will offer a refund. 
  
 The question is:
 Is it worth buying another unit? Does it actually offer 124snr it claims? If it doesn't, the AK Jr. I have provides solid 1.9vRm output with 114snr(not spec wise, but from RMAA), which is pretty hard to beat.


----------



## nick_charles

kimvictor said:


> I got a lemon...it creates a audible hum when playing low frequency.
> 
> Tried everything, including:
> optical input, different computers(different OS too), different USB ports, different power plugs, different computer volume(which should always be set to max anyways), different filter, and even different headphones. Nothing worked. Hopefully Massdrop will offer a refund.
> ...


 
  
  
 I've bought many SMSL items and sadly sample quality is *highly* variable, my own M8 works fine as does my VA2 amp except that the LED died in the first week, but other SMSL components of mine have been faulty at birth (dead usb input on pre-Sanskrit DAC) or died after time (Sanskrit DAC).
  
 The SMSL specs are based on measurements the THD+N which is a good indicator is at about -107db, noise alone is lower at better than -120db at 1Khz but the difference between -120 and -110 is kinda moot as both levels of noise should be wholly inaudible in normal use and certainly phones/speakers will normally add substantially more noise/distortion than the DAC alone. That said it's hard to recommend SMSL on  QC grounds unless I am an unlucky coin...


----------



## kimvictor

nick_charles said:


> I've bought many SMSL items and sadly sample quality is *highly* variable, my own M8 works fine as does my VA2 amp except that the LED died in the first week, but other SMSL components of mine have been faulty at birth (dead usb input on pre-Sanskrit DAC) or died after time (Sanskrit DAC).
> 
> The SMSL specs are based on measurements the THD+N which is a good indicator is at about -107db, noise alone is lower at better than -120db at 1Khz but the difference between -120 and -110 is kinda moot as both levels of noise should be wholly inaudible in normal use and certainly phones/speakers will normally add substantially more noise/distortion than the DAC alone. That said it's hard to recommend SMSL on  QC grounds unless I am an unlucky coin...


 
 On the bright side, Massdrop has been easy to deal with, which is nice. They did say that it could take weeks for an replacement from SMSL, if I wanted one. So I decided to go for a refund. I'll be mailing my M8 back to their warehouse this Wednesday.


----------



## Dimon Hell

Hello community.
My M8 don't recognized by PC anymore.
I even can't reinstall drivers, because device must be canbected/reconnected but my M8 can't be seen by PC.
Maybe soneobe knows, what can be wrong?


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

dimon hell said:


> Hello community.
> My M8 don't recognized by PC anymore.
> I even can't reinstall drivers, because device must be canbected/reconnected but my M8 can't be seen by PC.
> Maybe soneobe knows, what can be wrong?


 
 Try on another PC. If it works there, it's fine. Just uninstall drivers and use another USB port.
 If it does not, shady craftsmanship..


----------



## Dimon Hell

No, it don't work with any PC. 
When connected with any cable - just no reaction.
I guess i just lost money. Maybe i'll be lucky with reaching ebay seller - i bought it 2 months ago.


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

dimon hell said:


> No, it don't work with any PC.
> When connected with any cable - just no reaction.
> I guess i just lost money. Maybe i'll be lucky with reaching ebay seller - i bought it 2 months ago.


 
 :/ I hope my SMSL survives more then that.. did you turn it off and on much?


----------



## Dimon Hell

Do you think it can't be switched on/off more, than 2 times per day? 
I guess i should get rid of it...


----------



## DoMakeSayThink

I have yet to turn my off since i got it


----------



## kimvictor

Eh poor QC I call it. It looks great on paper, but they really got to step their QC up. I would hesitate buying anything from SMSL unless you're buying from a reputable seller with good return/warranty policy.


----------



## Dimon Hell

Well, my ebay seller promised 1 year warranty, so... I'll try at least.


----------



## hpamdr

dimon hell said:


> Hello community.
> My M8 don't recognized by PC anymore.
> I even can't reinstall drivers, because device must be canbected/reconnected but my M8 can't be seen by PC.
> Maybe soneobe knows, what can be wrong?


 

 Do you use the original usb cable and the original 9v power supply ?
 Once you power it Left button. can you also check if you are in usb mode using the button on the right of the mini screen indication is top right.
 What is your pc OS ?
 if it is windows 10, you can try the valuation version from xmos : http://www.xmos.com/published/usb-audio-class-20-evaluation-driver-windows?version=latest


----------



## Dimon Hell

*hpamdr, *everything worked yesterday, and became dead today! Literally.
 All was set and played dsd, i know how to operate it and how to connect! This is faulty device case, not the misuse one.
 PC Win 8.1 Pro, M8 powered by SMSL P1, original USB cable.
 Need to get rid of that crap and buy something more reliable! 
 Yes, yhis thing works, when it works. It's beautyful and shiny, but... Dac for over 200$ does not have optical usb insulation!? This is ridiculous! Cheap noame dacs have - this fancy - no! Facepalm.
 I'll let you know eventually how it ends.


----------



## willowbrook

dimon hell said:


> *hpamdr
> , *everything worked yesterday, and became dead today! Literally.
> 
> All was set and played dsd, i know how to operate it and how to connect! This is faulty device case, not the misuse one.
> ...



I hope your problem gets solved. As long as you have warranty, it should be fine.


----------



## tfs8271

Did firmware update... Why won't it display files that are higher format than 44.1kHz?  Is it playing 44.1 or 196 but just doesn't display as 196?


----------



## hpamdr

tfs8271 said:


> Did firmware update... Why won't it display files that are higher format than 44.1kHz?  Is it playing 44.1 or 196 but just doesn't display as 196?


 

 if it is not on front screen, it is  not playing at the requested bitrate (verify on the xmos driver pannel). Check also if your player is using asio and do not resample.


----------



## wwmhf

I got mine this morning. I have been playing with for the last several hours. It sounds good. In particular, the configuration PC->USB->Gustard U12->Coaxial -> SMSL M8 sounds better than PC->USB-> SMSL M8. I have found all the needed parts for building a linear power supply. I just need some time to put them together and I hope that can enhance the sound further.


----------



## louisjames

Have you tried the different filter settings?  I found "Fast" was a bit too "shrill" with my setup, "Slow" a bit muffled and thought "Mini" worked the best. Will probably try a "USB Cleaner" at some point and still playing around with cables. So far the Pangea 4% Silver sounds the best for my rig. I A/B'd it against a Wireworld Starlight 7 and found the Pangea a bit louder and fuller sounding but with somewhat less detail. But overall a much easier listen and 1/3rd the price. Logic says it's just 0's and 1's and well made cables should sound the same but I certainly did not find that to be the case.


----------



## louisjames

Btw, is there a way to confirm having the 32bit version instead of the 24bit one?


----------



## wwmhf

louisjames said:


> Btw, is there a way to confirm having the 32bit version instead of the 24bit one?


 
  
 If you are using Foobar2000, under
  
 Preference->Output->Device/WASAPI
  
 you can try different "output date format": 16-bit, 24-bit, 32-bit ...


----------



## louisjames

Thanks. I'm using Audirvana on an iMac but just checked my Massdrop receipt and supposedly it is the latest version. I'll double check in either case. Can't say enough good things about this little guy. Especially for the price.


----------



## DjBobby

wwmhf said:


> I got mine this morning. I have been playing with for the last several hours. It sounds good. In particular, the configuration PC->USB->Gustard U12->Coaxial -> SMSL M8 sounds better than PC->USB-> SMSL M8. I have found all the needed parts for building a linear power supply. I just need some time to put them together and I hope that can enhance the sound further.


 

 Could you describe the difference, how does Gustard change the sound in comparison to straight USB to M8?


----------



## hpamdr

Howto use M8 with moOde audio player on rpi2 to play music from your NAS, and control from your phone wireless !
  
 Get Rpi2, blank µSD >= 2Go, network cable, 5V 2A power supply with µUSB.
 // and a computer 

Download moOde Player >= 2.5 SD image unzip it ! http://modeaudio.org
Copy image on SDCard using  a tool like win32 disk imager
Apply fix for fast usb dac : Fix: Add dwc_otg.fiq_fsm_mask=0x3 to the beginning of line in cmdline.txt of the µSD card.
Plug all and boot your rPi2, ater you just have to configure from the web interface,
configure external USB audio,
add your sources
extend sdcard

You are ready to play and drive from your phone/computer 
You can aldo add wifi dongle, external usb drive ....
you can update rpi firmware but do not update the system !
  
 moOde audio player is actively maintained, works well almost out of the box, you have a wonderfull support from the developer ! and It sound great....
  
 rpi3 is not yet supported unless you give a look to the DIY forum and do it the hard way !


----------



## ozrick

shredder11 said:


> I have the SMSL stack and having used many Soundblaster products down the years, I would say the SMSL would blow its sorry arse out of the water.  The SMSL lacks support for surround sound though, so if that is important to you I would look for something else.


 
  
 I wouldn't dis too hard on the Soundblaster line unless you've already tried the X-Fi Titanium HD and/or ZxR cards.  With those, they really upped their game over the only other card of theirs I had, the X-Fi Fatal1ty.
  
 I've just received my SMSL M8 from Massdrop today.  No driver install as I'm just using the optical input on it.  I'm upgrading (hopefully) from the SMSL sd-793II.  No issues yet.  My setup is Foobar->Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium HD->optical->M8->Yamaha CR-2040->CV DX9's.  The SB's rca outs are already feeding a Corsair sp2500 which only takes rca's.  Sounds great but definitely different than the pcm179x dacs both the sd-793II & Soundblaster use.  I'll give it a couple of days for any 'burn-in' to be had and see what I've got here.
  
 I found a white paper that goes into these enigmatic filter settings of which, using optical, I'm only playing with 3 of.  The Fast, Slow, and MINI filters.  The TLDR seems to be 'use MINI'.  It's worth noting that the M8 manual describes their MINI filter as encompassing a Fast roll-off.  According to the white paper, the best implementation of it (and next gen of that filter) would be to have a slow-roll off.  Still sounds good to me though,.. and still only just started my burn in.
  
 The white paper: https://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf


----------



## wwmhf

djbobby said:


> Could you describe the difference, how does Gustard change the sound in comparison to straight USB to M8?


 
  
 Through U12, the sound is more solid, a little louder, more layered.
  
 Also, the difference is very much different when the music is up-sampled. With M8's USB, the music sounds softer and slower.


----------



## calipilot227

Got mine in yesterday. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to send it back. I couldn't get the USB input to work on any of my computers (Windows 7 and Windows 10). Even after installing the drivers, I couldn't get the computer to recognize it. Tried several USB cables as well. Anyone else having this problem? Optical and coax inputs work just fine.


----------



## Triplefun

I was about to close on the SMSL M8 on massdrop (4 days to go) for US$160 when I discovered the TEMPOTEC Serenade DSD which can be had on ThanksBuyer (yet another Chinese online gadget shop with Paypal) for US$152 - http://www.thanksbuyer.com/tempotec-serenade-dsd-dxd-32bit-384khz-music-workstation-usb-sound-card-audio-decoder-46219?keyword=serenade. Its also available on Amazon for US$169 (http://www.amazon.com/TEMPOTEC-Serenade-32Bit-384KHz-Sound/dp/B00V67JXKY)
  
 It incorporates a C-Media CM6632A USB processor,  Burr Brown PCM1795 DAC, 2 TPA6130A2 headphone amplifier and processes native DSD64,DSD128,DSD256 and DSD512 as well as 32 Bit/352.8KHz and 32 Bit/384 KHz PCM. I have ordered one and will compare it with my Schitt LOKI.
  
 I would be interested to know if anyone else has tried one of these. I realise it is not a sabre ES9018 dac but this could also be its strength. There are very few useful reviews other than Quobuz (http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/info/hi-res-guide/bancs-d-essai/tempotec-serenade-dsd-improved177846).


----------



## fritobugger

calipilot227 said:


> Got mine in yesterday. Unfortunately, it looks like I'll have to send it back. I couldn't get the USB input to work on any of my computers (Windows 7 and Windows 10). Even after installing the drivers, I couldn't get the computer to recognize it. Tried several USB cables as well. Anyone else having this problem? Optical and coax inputs work just fine.


 
  
  
 Try downloading the latest drivers.  Good luck.
  
 Love the FZ quote.


----------



## willowbrook

Where can I get the latest driver? Smsl site is blocked by ESET for some reason...


----------



## fritobugger

willowbrook said:


> Where can I get the latest driver? Smsl site is blocked by ESET for some reason...


 
 Links have been posted in previous pages.


----------



## calipilot227

fritobugger said:


> Try downloading the latest drivers.  Good luck.
> 
> Love the FZ quote.


 
  
 Did that, no joy. Windows won't even register that it's connected in the device manager. Sent an email to Massdrop to start the exchange process.


----------



## wwmhf

triplefun said:


> I was about to close on the SMSL M8 on massdrop (4 days to go) for US$160 when I discovered the TEMPOTEC Serenade DSD which can be had on ThanksBuyer (yet another Chinese online gadget shop with Paypal) for US$152 - http://www.thanksbuyer.com/tempotec-serenade-dsd-dxd-32bit-384khz-music-workstation-usb-sound-card-audio-decoder-46219?keyword=serenade. Its also available on Amazon for US$169 (http://www.amazon.com/TEMPOTEC-Serenade-32Bit-384KHz-Sound/dp/B00V67JXKY)
> 
> It incorporates a C-Media CM6632A USB processor,  Burr Brown PCM1795 DAC, 2 TPA6130A2 headphone amplifier and processes native DSD64,DSD128,DSD256 and DSD512 as well as 32 Bit/352.8KHz and 32 Bit/384 KHz PCM. I have ordered one and will compare it with my Schitt LOKI.
> 
> I would be interested to know if anyone else has tried one of these. I realise it is not a sabre ES9018 dac but this could also be its strength. There are very few useful reviews other than Quobuz (http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/info/hi-res-guide/bancs-d-essai/tempotec-serenade-dsd-improved177846).


 
  
 At those prices for both the DAC and AMP, I am afraid none of these two modules are good enough.


----------



## fritobugger

calipilot227 said:


> Did that, no joy. Windows won't even register that it's connected in the device manager. Sent an email to Massdrop to start the exchange process.


 
  
 Bummer.  Good luck.


----------



## wwmhf

Using external power supply is really good feature of the SMSL M8 DAC . I have built a simple power supply by putting some part together and my SMSL M8 DAC sounds obviously better.


----------



## Aplle

willowbrook said:


> Where can I get the latest driver? Smsl site is blocked by ESET for some reason...


 
 It's also blocked by Google, I wonder what the deal is with that.


----------



## willowbrook

aplle said:


> It's also blocked by Google, I wonder what the deal is with that.


 
 Can't download the driver.zip on Chrome...weird.


----------



## ozrick

Firefox notified me that there was malicious software on the site as well, but I'm using optical so didn't try to download it.  I don't know if there is a registry that all these companies subscribe to in order to black list the site or if they are actually detecting something.  My guess is that the site found itself on some registry in error, but it's just a guess.
  
 The unit doesn't seem to even get warm when using optical.  Sounds great.  Liking the purchase.


----------



## wwmhf

SMSL M8 is a good budget DAC, and it has a great potential to sound even better if mated with a better power supply and a better USB receiver.


----------



## wersuss

wwmhf said:


> SMSL M8 is a good budget DAC, and it has a great potential to sound even better if mated with a better power supply and a better USB receiver.


 
 Hi. what is better USB receiver for M8 dac?


----------



## willowbrook

Anyone successfully downloaded the latest driver? I got the M8 right now, but can't seem to get access to smsl-audio.com...


----------



## willowbrook

I guess the site was having some problem, anyone having trouble downloading I uploaded the latest driver to zippyshare. http://www39.zippyshare.com/v/mgzGDrLj/file.html taken from smsl-audio.com ^^
 Don't have my HE-560 with me, so I don't really notice too much difference from Modi 2U. I do notice an overall cleaner sound, especially around higher frequency instead of slightly congested from modi 2. One huge advantage is the 2.5v output compared to 1.5v output from modi 2. Low output voltage has been a problem for my amp op amps lately.
 When I get the HE-560 in my hands, hopefully I can do a detailed comparison.
  
 If you're having trouble Windows recognizing, you have to make sure you go to sound settings and make it as default communication & default device if you are having trouble.


----------



## wwmhf

wersuss said:


> Hi. what is better USB receiver for M8 dac?


 
  
 "USB receiver" is how I called it. A fancier name might USB digital audio interface or something like. Check Gustard U12 for example.


----------



## wwmhf

willowbrook said:


> Anyone successfully downloaded the latest driver? I got the M8 right now, but can't seem to get access to smsl-audio.com...


 

 I could not download anything from SMSL's web page too. But you can try the following places to download XMOS drivers: 
  
 2.26:
  

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1ntDUtqp
  

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AKASKTkcgS8A2xE&id=D0AB7686EA250D95%214056&cid=D0AB7686EA250D95
  

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1ntDUtqp
  
 3.2:
  

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1V7oJG


----------



## willowbrook

wwmhf said:


> I could not download anything from SMSL's web page too. But you can try the following places to download XMOS drivers:
> 
> 2.26:
> 
> ...


 
 I already uploaded the v3.2 driver from smsl-audio.com on zippyshare.


----------



## P701

wwmhf said:


> SMSL M8 is a good budget DAC, and it has a great potential to sound even better if mated with a better power supply and a better USB receiver.



 



wwmhf said:


> "USB receiver" is how I called it. A fancier name might USB digital audio interface or something like. Check Gustard U12 for example.



 

Could you enlighten me/us how routing the data through another device in the signal-chain can make it sound better?
How do you output it from Gustard for example? Optical?
What is the purpose of that / Why does it differ from feeding USB right into M8?


----------



## wwmhf

p701 said:


> wwmhf said:
> 
> 
> > SMSL M8 is a good budget DAC, and it has a great potential to sound even better if mated with a better power supply and a better USB receiver.
> ...


 
 This is how a USB digital audio interface is used in my playing systems:
  
 PC->USB->Gustard U12->Coaxial cable->M8 (or other DACs)->Amp
  
 There might be many reasons, but the fact that a USB digital audio interface such as Gustard U12 or Breeze U8 (I have both and I like U8 better) has its own (good) power supply and its own (good again) clock is an important factor.


----------



## P701

wwmhf said:


> This is how a USB digital audio interface is used in my playing systems:
> 
> PC->USB->Gustard U12->Coaxial cable->M8 (or other DACs)->Amp
> 
> There might be many reasons, but the fact that a USB digital audio interface such as Gustard U12 or Breeze U8 (I have both and I like U8 better) has its own (good) power supply and its own (good again) clock is an important factor.



 

But doesnt this asynchronous SMSL M8 already have its own (2) clocks in it?
Now the same digital signal is just routed through another device, then back to M8, which still has its (not that good?) powersupply.
What about the M8's coaxial input + digital to analg conversation? The M8 power supply is not dependent here? Does the M8's "drawbacks" here disappear simply by routing the signal thru Gustard?
Not to speak that most analog part is still dependent of the M8's (not so good?) powersupply.

In worst case scenario, isnt there a possibility that you might only be combining noise's (etc unwanted) from 2 different devices?


----------



## elixiriszog

That driver causes the touchpad on my laptop to go totally crazy while the device is plugged in... Very weird and a bit disconcerting. The SMSL site doesn't even seem to exist anymore. Where did you obtain the driver, and/or do you know where new firmware / drivers can be obtained?


----------



## UNOE

You like the U8 more interesting it's half the price.


----------



## Firschi

Hi guys,
  
 I just received my new M8 yesterday. The specs say that when using USB Input 32bits/384kHz is possible. I'm running W7 and installed the driver that came with the DAC, but the "highest" mode I can chose is 24bit/192kHz. What am I missing?
  
  
 Firschi


----------



## GeoffW

firschi said:


> I just received my new M8 yesterday. The specs say that when using USB Input 32bits/384kHz is possible. I'm running W7 and installed the driver that came with the DAC, but the "highest" mode I can chose is 24bit/192kHz. What am I missing?


 
  
 I think you can only get that rate through foobar with the SoX resampler plugin, but I hope I'm wrong. Foobar works fine, though.


----------



## wwmhf

firschi said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just received my new M8 yesterday. The specs say that when using USB Input 32bits/384kHz is possible. I'm running W7 and installed the driver that came with the DAC, but the "highest" mode I can chose is 24bit/192kHz. What am I missing?
> 
> ...


 
  
 To go beyond 192kHz, M8 has to be connected to your PC via USB.


----------



## wwmhf

unoe said:


> You like the U8 more interesting it's half the price.


 
  
 U8 with a better transformer and better clocks is not half the price of Gustard, but it is still less expensive.


----------



## Firschi

As I wrote, it is connected via USB


----------



## Aplle

elixiriszog said:


> That driver causes the touchpad on my laptop to go totally crazy while the device is plugged in... Very weird and a bit disconcerting. The SMSL site doesn't even seem to exist anymore. Where did you obtain the driver, and/or do you know where new firmware / drivers can be obtained?


 
 The SMSL site is still there, but Chrome wouldn't let me download the M8 driver, seems to think it's malware.


----------



## willowbrook

willowbrook said:


> I guess the site was having some problem, anyone having trouble downloading I uploaded the latest driver to zippyshare. http://www39.zippyshare.com/v/mgzGDrLj/file.html taken from smsl-audio.com ^^
> Don't have my HE-560 with me, so I don't really notice too much difference from Modi 2U. I do notice an overall cleaner sound, especially around higher frequency instead of slightly congested from modi 2. One huge advantage is the 2.5v output compared to 1.5v output from modi 2. Low output voltage has been a problem for my amp op amps lately.
> When I get the HE-560 in my hands, hopefully I can do a detailed comparison.
> 
> If you're having trouble Windows recognizing, you have to make sure you go to sound settings and make it as default communication & default device if you are having trouble.







aplle said:


> The SMSL site is still there, but Chrome wouldn't let me download the M8 driver, seems to think it's malware.




Refer to my last post, I've managed to download the zip file by disabling malware protection option in Chrome. Unzipped and uploaded it.


----------



## Firschi

The driver you uploaded matches the one that came with the M8 Package. It makes the M8 work with a W7 System but I cannot figure out how to use 32/384...


----------



## wwmhf

firschi said:


> The driver you uploaded matches the one that came with the M8 Package. It makes the M8 work with a W7 System but I cannot figure out how to use 32/384...


 
  
 Is you music source in 32/384 format? Is your music source a DSD file? 
  
 I do not have any 384 music files. However, I tried to you jriver to upsample my music files upto 384 and it worked through the direction USB connection but not through independent USB interface + coaxial cable.


----------



## Firschi

wwmhf said:


> Is you music source in 32/384 format? Is your music source a DSD file?


 
  
 Actually, I neither have 32/384 nor DSD files 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When reading the specs I always come to the conclusion that there must be a 32/384 option in the drivers menu. Am I wrong?


----------



## wwmhf

firschi said:


> Actually, I neither have 32/384 nor DSD files
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


In foobar2000, I saw 32 in some options but I do not recall the 384 option.


----------



## emester

I don't know if Im having a problem or not with my unit.
  
 seems like my Macbook Pro sound card might actually be bypassing the external DAC itself, as the keyboard volume controls still work, which is the exact opposite of my Audioengine D1 which locks out keyboard controls. 
  
 Is this just my paranoia going on or do I really have situation going on?


----------



## willowbrook

emester said:


> I don't know if Im having a problem or not with my unit.
> 
> seems like my Macbook Pro sound card might actually be bypassing the external DAC itself, as the keyboard volume controls still work, which is the exact opposite of my Audioengine D1 which locks out keyboard controls.
> 
> Is this just my paranoia going on or do I really have situation going on?


 

 You have to be in exclusive mode like Wasapi or ASIO to fully bypass OS settings. You can get wasapi or asio plugins in foobar2k and it will bypass windows settings. Also make sure to check the allowance of giving full exclusive mode for SMSL M8 in sound settings.


----------



## UNOE

emester said:


> I don't know if Im having a problem or not with my unit.
> 
> seems like my Macbook Pro sound card might actually be bypassing the external DAC itself, as the keyboard volume controls still work, which is the exact opposite of my Audioengine D1 which locks out keyboard controls.
> 
> Is this just my paranoia going on or do I really have situation going on?




It's a 32bit dac you have digital volume control. I believe in OSX of you set it to 24bit it will grey out the volume.


----------



## DjBobby

Anybody got M8 from the last Massdrop? I was not at home today when delivery came, so have to pick it up tomorrow. But I was shocked about the overblown import fees I have to pay, which are aprox. for a unit more than a double the cost. I don't know what did they declare as a value, Massdrop price or MSRP? Anyway, the fees I have to pay are much above of anything I ever payed in this range


----------



## hpamdr

Normally the declared value should be written on the shipping label and the category of the item.
  
 // Im leaving in the country of wine and chese and did had to pay import taxes a bunch of time.
  
 Import taxes are defined by price and item category. If the declared value does not match what the officer think reasonable for such device he can evaluate a selling price (One made in the country of chocolate and watches can be a weiss DAC202  ). After you have VAT...
  
 Normally you can claim for refund if you can argue an error was made. First you need to get value of the item (invoice is a base), you need to get the precice itrem category and the import taxe claculation schem for your country/region. If what you sum separating VAT and Import taxe, ask for refund... you just wil have to wait....


----------



## DjBobby

hpamdr said:


> Normally the declared value should be written on the shipping label and the category of the item.
> 
> // Im leaving in the country of wine and chese and did had to pay import taxes a bunch of time.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for heads up. It's not a matter of not paying taxes and VAT, but the math behind which I don't understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If I buy anything on Amazon Germany, they automatically show all additional costs incl. import taxes and VAT, and charge me right on my ordering. If I choose just as a test, a piece of electronic on Amazon which is identically priced as M8 on Massdrop, Amazon shows me the taxes/VAT amount which is only 1/4 of what I have to pay tomorrow.
 So to be clear, 2 products - same price, one coming from Amazon and one from Massdrop. The Massdrop one will be taxed 4 times more....
  
 Regarding "// Im leaving in the country of wine and chese and did had to pay import taxes a bunch of time." Probably I wouldn't be so upset with higher vat and taxes if I would live in a country of best cheeses and best wines 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Santé


----------



## willowbrook

djbobby said:


> Thanks for heads up. It's not a matter of not paying taxes and VAT, but the math behind which I don't understand
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Import fee/customs fee is dependent on country. Normally, it shouldn't exceed %20 of the item. It should have been declared as $149.99 and a lot of countries will just pass items under $200 or 150, especially from US. I think there might have been a miscalculation by your customs or Massdrop.


----------



## bnsb

willowbrook said:


> Import fee/customs fee is dependent on country. Normally, it shouldn't exceed %20 of the item. It should have been declared as $149.99 and a lot of countries will just pass items under $200 or 150, especially from US. I think there might have been a miscalculation by your customs or Massdrop.


 I was in tears when I paid 29.5 per cent plus fees when I got mine!


----------



## willowbrook

bnsb said:


> I was in tears when I paid 29.5 per cent plus fees when I got mine!


 

 30%...damn. I hope you can consider import tax/customs fee when you order things overseas next time...


----------



## fritobugger

willowbrook said:


> 30%...damn. I hope you can consider import tax/customs fee when you order things overseas next time...


 
  
 I think it is between 50% and 70% for items considered luxury goods here in Vietnam.


----------



## DjBobby

OK, picked up M8 today, and started burn in. The first impressions are, superb clarity and soundstage but less warmth and bass than Sanskrit 6th. M8 sounds like BMW with strongest engine, more technically impressive, and Sanskrit 6th more like Mercedes with leather and mahogany interior, or more analog. Will give a proper burn in for few days, and than make a longer version.


----------



## emester

So yeah it was definitely iTunes screwing around with my M8's performance, as I used another media player (Audirvana Plus) and the sound quality and overall performance was massively improved to the point where I'm actually floored.
  
 Very annoying fiasco to deal with but I'm glad its no longer a problem for me.


----------



## DjBobby

Should M8 show on the display the current resolution of the files played? Because mine shows constantly 384khz, regardless of which resolution is playing. So i guess it makes upsampling?


----------



## Triplefun

djbobby said:


> Should M8 show on the display the current resolution of the files played? Because mine shows constantly 384khz, regardless of which resolution is playing. So i guess it makes upsampling?


 

 what are you using for the music source, and if a PC, what software?


----------



## DjBobby

triplefun said:


> what are you using for the music source, and if a PC, what software?


 

 Swinsian on Macbook.


----------



## wwmhf

djbobby said:


> Should M8 show on the display the current resolution of the files played? Because mine shows constantly 384khz, regardless of which resolution is playing. So i guess it makes upsampling?


 
  
 Yes, it does. 
  
 Maybe your music software is "secretly" upsampling the music files.


----------



## DjBobby

wwmhf said:


> Yes, it does.
> 
> Maybe your music software is "secretly" upsampling the music files.


 

 Thanks, sounds reasonable. Was never aware of it, because all DACs I used previously didn't have a display.


----------



## willowbrook

djbobby said:


> Thanks, sounds reasonable. Was never aware of it, because all DACs I used previously didn't have a display.


 

 I recommend the famous foobar2000, works perfectly


----------



## fritobugger

emester said:


> So yeah it was definitely iTunes screwing around with my M8's performance, as I used another media player (Audirvana Plus) and the sound quality and overall performance was massively improved to the point where I'm actually floored.
> 
> Very annoying fiasco to deal with but I'm glad its no longer a problem for me.


 
 Yet another reason to hate iTunes!


----------



## bnsb

I use Foobar2000, but still my M8 dac shows 44.1 what ever media I play. Foobar correctly shows the media at 44.1 or 192. Is there a solution?


----------



## DjBobby

willowbrook said:


> I recommend the famous foobar2000, works perfectly


 

 Unfortunately there is to my knowledge no Foobar for Mac OSX.


----------



## willowbrook

bnsb said:


> I use Foobar2000, but still my M8 dac shows 44.1 what ever media I play. Foobar correctly shows the media at 44.1 or 192. Is there a solution?



If you are using output as DS, you will have to set it manually in sound setting. Or use wasapi or asio for output and it will change accordingly to files


----------



## bnsb

How would I do that? Would appreciate simple step by step guidance please. Thanks in advance
  
 Edit.
  
 Found step by step guide for wasapi. Will try over weekend


----------



## hpamdr

First install the drivers for the M8..
 If you also want to play dsd follows this guide http://jlsounds.com/uploads/foobar_ASIO_setup.pdf


----------



## DjBobby

Tried M8 with iPhone - digital out, and it shows and changes correctly all frenquencies from 44,1 to 192.  So it's obvious now that my IOS Swinsian software is upsampling everything to 384Khz, and that was the reason of having everything shown on display as 384khz. Happy to find out that it's not a M8 bug.


----------



## willowbrook

So I finally got to test the Modi 2U and SMSL M8 with no LPS with HE-560. After repeatedly switching back between on the same songs for numerous times, I came to the conclusion that there is a slight difference. The Modi 2U is slightly compressed in comparison to M8 as in more centered as well as slightly sibilant. Very slightly. The biggest difference is the sense of air that the sabre chip in the M8 gives. I guess it's more of a constant 'ss' sound at very high frequency giving a sensation of more clarity. This is a typical trait of sabre chips and I found it favorable on my end since the Modi 2U sounded muddy and compressed compared to M8. It is very weird while the Modi sounds muddy in comparison, the sound signature is slightly brighter which makes it more prone to sibilance. The biggest difference of resolution would cause this. I haven't tried anything higher above this price range for DAC, so I have no idea how it compared with $500+ DACs, but for $150 from frequent MD sales. This is a no brainer IMO.
  
 Of course all this is YMMV because the ability to notice slight differences really depends on the music source, how resolving other gears are, and how far your hearing can extend. For me, I am quite young and can hear up to 19~20 khz, so any slight difference is very noticeable for me, hence finding the M8 superior enough.


----------



## Dimon Hell

Eventually my M8+P1 is on their way to seller for full refund. No more smsl in my house!


----------



## DjBobby

dimon hell said:


> Eventually my M8+P1 is on their way to seller for full refund. No more smsl in my house!


 

 Because of?


----------



## Dimon Hell

Few pages before i wrote about. 
 One day it's just lost connection and won't seen by any pc anymore.
 As i find out - it even don't have optical insulation of usb connection! Nonsense for such not cheap gadget.


----------



## DjBobby

dimon hell said:


> Few pages before i wrote about.
> One day it's just lost connection and won't seen by any pc anymore.
> As i find out - it even don't have optical insulation of usb connection! Nonsense for such not cheap gadget.


 

 That happened to me with my SMSL M2. One day just dropped out, there was no way to bring it back to life. I wanted to throw it away, but incidentally found out, that it worked on my other laptop without any issues. So I think it could be sometimes about the drivers conflict.


----------



## sr2002

I did some exhaustive reading on these forums for the past 4-5 days on DACs and wanted some recommendations. (I might start thread too lol). 
 I decided to post here as I saw this thread has been quite active and also the fact that the M8 is an option I am considering. 
 Please pardon me if this feels like a repeat from the new thread I am about to post
  
 I'm looking for my first DAC and was wondering what would be your suggestions.
 I used to have the Harman Kardon HK3990 (the stereo 120Watt amp) + Polk Monitor 70s ( had to sell them because I moved and they were to big to fit my car).
 My current setup: Windows Desktop with onborad realtek audio (which sucks) + JBL LSR305 + M50x Headphones.
  
 I recently auditioned the Steinberg UR22II with the CS4270 DAC and was somewhat impressed, but unfortunately I had to return it as it was a defective unit. 
 So, as for what I'm looking for: 
 Budget: 150-250$ may stretch to 300$ if its a real bargain
 Use: Music listening and PC Gaming (surround not a requirement) 
 Connectivity: USB input, RCA out (Balanced out is even better), Optional: optical in/out
 Optional: Headphone amp not a requirement but wouldnt mind if its AIO
  
 I read that the ES9018 is a good chip but the M8 uses the ES9018K2M which I've read mixed reviews about. 
 The current options I'm considering:
 Schiit Modi 2
 Aune X1S
 SMSL M8
 Cambridge DacMagic 100
 Peachtree Dacit X
 MF- V90 DAC
 Fostex HP-A3
 (Not considering the Audio-gd products as I'm not too sure about the whole shipping from china and waiting for a month to arrive. Plus their cheapest DAC is 350$ something)
  
 My questions: 
 What might be the major differences that I could actually hear between all of these? 
 Will DSD support be of any benefit? (is there enough source music available to take advantage of it?)
 Any thoughts on audio latency issues with any of them, in case I use them for gaming?
 Any other suggestions apart from the ones I listed ? (Especially ones with some exotic DAC like Sabre 9018 or some Wolfsons?)


----------



## bongieto

sr2002 said:


> I did some exhaustive reading on these forums for the past 4-5 days on DACs and wanted some recommendations. (I might start thread too lol).
> I decided to post here as I saw this thread has been quite active and also the fact that the M8 is an option I am considering.
> Please pardon me if this feels like a repeat from the new thread I am about to post
> 
> ...


 

 If you are considering SMSL M8, which a very good DAC for its price, I have my whole SMSL stack posted in the classifieds. Its all basically new.


----------



## DjBobby

sr2002 said:


> I did some exhaustive reading on these forums for the past 4-5 days on DACs and wanted some recommendations. (I might start thread too lol).
> I decided to post here as I saw this thread has been quite active and also the fact that the M8 is an option I am considering.
> Please pardon me if this feels like a repeat from the new thread I am about to post
> 
> ...


 

 DSD support will be of benefit only if you have, or plan to purchase some DSD files. Otherwise no use for it.
 Second thought is a sound preference, which is matter of taste. M8 sounds detailed and crisp, forward and engaging, but to some ears could sound a little bit aggressive and dry. It's for sure better than Modi2U. I left Modi2U for SMSL Sanskrit 6th (Wolfson8740) which was a big step up, sounding warmer and more analogue.
 Bought also M8 which I am still testing. M8 is technically better than both and has more shine to the sound, but still it depends on the music. Old 70's rock is much better sounding on Sanskrit, and faster pace music sounds better on M8. In one of my previous posts I've compared Sanskrit 6th to Mercedes, and M8 to BMW.
 Modi is under the level of this two. I was auditioning previously DacMagic 100 but it sounded too polite, not so exciting to my ears. I hope this helps a bit.


----------



## sr2002

Thanks for the reply. But i read in a lot of posts that the M8 requires the linear P1 power supply in order perform at its full potential. The P1 supply currently costs 110$ extra, which makes this combo pretty expensive. Is there a way around this ? How much of a difference does it make with the stock power supply versus the P1 ? 
 Any thoughts on the quality of something like the Audio Engine D1 or how it might compare to this? Since currently the M8 is on sale for 190$ on Amazon and the AudioEngine is 170$ I think which is in the same ball park. Given the 180$ price tag, will the M8 (without the P1 power supply) sound better or more refined than the competition in that price bracket? 
  
 Any comments on the long term reliability of this unit? Heard some people mentioning customer support and warranty being non existent. Will it be a safer choice to buy a mainstream brand like Schiit or AudioEngine or Aune?


----------



## bongieto

sr2002 said:


> Thanks for the reply. But i read in a lot of posts that the M8 requires the linear P1 power supply in order perform at its full potential. The P1 supply currently costs 110$ extra, which makes this combo pretty expensive. Is there a way around this ? How much of a difference does it make with the stock power supply versus the P1 ?
> Any thoughts on the quality of something like the Audio Engine D1 or how it might compare to this? Since currently the M8 is on sale for 190$ on Amazon and the AudioEngine is 170$ I think which is in the same ball park. Given the 180$ price tag, will the M8 (without the P1 power supply) sound better or more refined than the competition in that price bracket?
> 
> Any comments on the long term reliability of this unit? Heard some people mentioning customer support and warranty being non existent. Will it be a safer choice to buy a mainstream brand like Schiit or AudioEngine or Aune?


 

 I am selling my SMSL stack for $350. It Includes M8, P1 and VA2. The price also includes Paypal fees and shipping. Its basically 2 months old. I cannot speak for the other DACs you mentioned but M8 paired with P1 creates a very detailed and smooth music reproduction. Available reviews can attest to the quality of M8.


----------



## sr2002

Thanks for the offer bongieto, but I am actually considering to buy a new unit and have decided upon other options. 
  
 Since I am new member, I am not allowed  to start a new thread in this section, so I have created a new one: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/802593/dac-recommendations-returning-audio-enthusiast-audio-gd-vs-other-offerings
  
 Please take a moment to pitch in your advice, I would really appreciate it.


----------



## rootscript

sr2002 said:


> Thanks for the reply. But i read in a lot of posts that the M8 requires the linear P1 power supply in order perform at its full potential. The P1 supply currently costs 110$ extra, which makes this combo pretty expensive. Is there a way around this ? How much of a difference does it make with the stock power supply versus the P1 ?
> Any thoughts on the quality of something like the Audio Engine D1 or how it might compare to this? Since currently the M8 is on sale for 190$ on Amazon and the AudioEngine is 170$ I think which is in the same ball park. Given the 180$ price tag, will the M8 (without the P1 power supply) sound better or more refined than the competition in that price bracket?
> 
> Any comments on the long term reliability of this unit? Heard some people mentioning customer support and warranty being non existent. Will it be a safer choice to buy a mainstream brand like Schiit or AudioEngine or Aune?


 
 I bought my M8 via MassDrop, so any warranty issues are directly with them.
 The M8 replaced an Audio Engine D1 (which was OK) but it was USB powered & no way as clear as the M8.
  
 In terns of component quality (I have 2 AudioEngine products) and will never buy again, they use cheap unknown capacitors - HOWEVER they are OK/smooth for entry level & look good (if that matters to you).
  
 The stock M8 with supplied powered supply is better IMO than the D1, and I would think that it would be better with the P1 power supply IF your USB source isn't 'clean' from noise/interference.
 You could also improve the whole setup with a slight upgrade in USB cable or optical etc..., something like WireWorld ultravoilet 7, but these tweaks will ONLY be of benefit if your whole system is capable enough to 'allow' the tweaks to be heard (is there a weak link in your system?).
  
 At this price point I believe that the M8 is great, you can look at other Sabre 9018 DACs; and the implementation & other components will make a difference even when looking at DACs that all use Sabre 9018 chips.
 If you want something a lot better than the SMSL M8, you will need to spend considerably more.  I would advise you to buy the M8 (you will be happy for a year or so), and spend the extra money elsewhere in your system (what ever is the weakest link, speaker cables, clean power, better amp etc...)
  
 I plan to upgrade to the SMSL P1 power supply, but I am more than happy with it as is (for the foreseeable future)
 If I had loads of money to spend & wanted to upgrade from the M8, I would choose something like the M2Tech Young DSD.
  
 Also, I was reading one of your other posts about DACs & volume control etc... To get the most out of your equipment, run your player software at 100%, DAC volume at 100% (or better to buy one without a volume), and use your amp as the master volume.


----------



## Triplefun

The ES9018 chip and ES8018K2M like DSD files. You can use Foobar to upsample media on the fly to DSD128. Also the P1 is not really noticeable unless you have a bad local power supply or a high quality back end system to show the differences. See http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528.
  
_We chose to conduct our plays with the help of the optional linear power S.M.S.L P1. The return, to us, seemed no more airy with this than with the original power supplied by the M8._
  
_In essence, this addition proved to be nothing exceptional; the M8 works perfectly in its basic configuration. But, since we did have the P1 power available for testing, it seemed stupid not to use it! The set has a very nice look to it, overall, even if it is on the costly side. But then, at Qobuz, we are always well predisposed to enjoy traditional, linear power supplies!_
  
 I have the Gustard X20u on my main system and am waiting for the SMSL M8 to arrive for my office system. The SMSL M8 will replace my Schiit Loki. I don't think you will notice much difference with the system you have in buying DACs more expensive than the M8. Your main issue will be the volume control. I suggest you get the M8 and use the money you save to get a good headphone amp with volume control and line out to your active speakers. Then look at buying replacement speakers and amp. Then cables. And finally, upgrade the DAC. And, don't forget the music.


----------



## sr2002

rootscript said:


> I bought my M8 via MassDrop, so any warranty issues are directly with them.
> The M8 replaced an Audio Engine D1 (which was OK) but it was USB powered & no way as clear as the M8.
> 
> In terns of component quality (I have 2 AudioEngine products) and will never buy again, they use cheap unknown capacitors - HOWEVER they are OK/smooth for entry level & look good (if that matters to you).
> ...


 
 Hey thanks so much for the detailed reply. The M8 does seem like a very hard to let go deal and I am still considering it. But looking at the Gustard X12 and the NFB-1DAC, I'm having second thoughts. I want to get something that I will enjoy for a long time rather than upgrade. So if I buy a DAC, I would like it to be close to end game and do justice to Speakers/Amps that I will buy in the future. And since, I currently have the luxury of stretching my budget to 500$, I'm trying to see whats the best I can get at that price point.  
 However, I am also looking at other Saber 9018K2M offerings from Hifimediy, which seem more portable and have a headphone amp built in. 
 What are your thoughts on the X12 ? Do you have any other suggestions as far as the ES9018 implementation based DACs (not the ES9018k2m). 
  
  
@Triplefun I replied to you on my thread please refer to it thanks  ... ( I keep getting flagged for quoting you because of the external links lol)


----------



## sr2002

triplefun said:


> The ES9018 chip and ES8018K2M like DSD files. You can use Foobar to upsample media on the fly to DSD128. Also the P1 is not really noticeable unless you have a bad local power supply or a high quality back end system to show the differences. See .
> 
> _We chose to conduct our plays with the help of the optional linear power S.M.S.L P1. The return, to us, seemed no more airy with this than with the original power supplied by the M8._
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Triplefun, I replied to you in my thread in the help section. Please refer to it thanks : )


----------



## rootscript

sr2002 said:


> Hey thanks so much for the detailed reply. The M8 does seem like a very hard to let go deal and I am still considering it. But looking at the Gustard X12 and the NFB-1DAC, I'm having second thoughts. I want to get something that I will enjoy for a long time rather than upgrade. So if I buy a DAC, I would like it to be close to end game and do justice to Speakers/Amps that I will buy in the future. And since, I currently have the luxury of stretching my budget to 500$, I'm trying to see whats the best I can get at that price point.
> However, I am also looking at other Saber 9018K2M offerings from Hifimediy, which seem more portable and have a headphone amp built in.
> What are your thoughts on the X12 ? Do you have any other suggestions as far as the ES9018 implementation based DACs (not the ES9018k2m).


 
 I understand exactly what you are saying about buying the best that you can at the time.  In my case I was originally looking 'wanting' to spend 1000s on a DAC; I took a chance on the M8 & I'm happy that I had the left over extra money to spend on other items (USB cables, AC Regenerator power supply, Nordost speaker cables etc...) - Sometime you just find a product that is really all you need in terms of quality & that allows you to spend on other areas, you have to look at the whole picture. If you had an M8 in your system, you could definitely look else where in your system for weak links.
  
 All the connectors, speaker cables, USB cables, interconnects are important & you can spend just as much money on cables as you do on components.

  
 Big black box on the floor is an AG500 AC regenerator (good clean stable AC power), the white box is a REL T-Zero subwoofer.
 The REL is AMAZING and made one of the biggest improvements to my system.

  
 Here is one setup I experimented with below, software player 100 volume, DAC 100%, tube amp 100%, & Schiit Vali 2 preamp as a master volume control.

  
 We all want 'the final system', but the truth is we all will probably keep upgrading/tweaking our systems forever - i think that most of us will probably agree with that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 In the end, what I am saying is the SMSL gets you 90% of the way there to a good DAC, you could spend $350 more and get 95% to a great DAC, but you could spend that 'extra' $350 on a Schiit Vali 2 pre-amp, a Wyrd decrapifier, and some ok speaker cable (*Van Damme 6mm Hifi Speaker Cable* is the best entry level bang for buck), you know exactly what I mean.


----------



## Triplefun

@sr2002
  
 I would look at upgrading your headphone first so you can then start to appreciate the value a DAC can bring to your music. Massdrop are currently advertising the Gustard H10 for $290 which will provide you with both a volume control and a superior class A headphone amp (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-h10). Get your phones sorted first, then look at the speakers.


----------



## sr2002

@Triplefun 
  
 Thanks, I was looking at that gustard Amp. But I am not sure I'm much of a headphone guy, I prefer speakers in general. But then again, I have not experience high quality headphones through a good amp either so I cant say I wont like it lol . 
  
 The reason I am looking for a DAC is that my onboard soundcard is Realtek garbage which has quite a lot of interference. It gives out an audible loud buzz when my video card is triggered and when its fans start. And I need to address that situation immediately lol. So I was looking at a sound card, but thought I instead of spending 150-200$ on a sound blaster or an internal sound card I'd rather spend a couple of hundred more and a state of the art DAC than serve as sound card and a stand alone processor for future upgrades. (And also the balanced outs)
  
 Is there any advantage to buy from Massdrop? Do they offer better support for exchange of returns? 
 Is there a way to track massdrop for if they will have the X12 on sale? or something similar to that?
  
 Also, what happened to the Emotiva DC 1 DAC, its listed on the website but can't find it on sale anywhere! It also seems to have everything I want.


----------



## sr2002

@rootscript 
  
 That is a really awesome looking setup you got there! You seem very thorough with the whole AC conditioning unit and all. I can only dream of such a setup for now haha. But i guess I have to start somewhere  ... And I'm glad to hear that the M8 is giving you enough performance to appreciate such a high end setup. That does speak good things about the M8's capabilities!


----------



## rootscript

sr2002 said:


> The reason I am looking for a DAC is that my onboard soundcard is Realtek garbage which has quite a lot of interference. It gives out an audible loud buzz when my video card is triggered and when its fans start. And I need to address that situation immediately lol. So I was looking at a sound card, but thought I instead of spending 150-200$ on a sound blaster or an internal sound card I'd rather spend a couple of hundred more and a state of the art DAC than serve as sound card and a stand alone processor for future upgrades. (And also the balanced outs)
> 
> Is there any advantage to buy from Massdrop? Do they offer better support for exchange of returns?
> Is there a way to track massdrop for if they will have the X12 on sale? or something similar to that?
> ...


 
 Just go here , register on MassDrop, and hit the request button on the X12 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-dac-x12-usb-version.
 You will get an email as soon as 200 other people request it to, and it becomes available again.
  
 From what you said about the buzz in your system, it looks like you might have 'some' issues whatever DAC you buy.  If that is the case, you might look at Schiit Wyrd decrapifier as a solution or/and a DC Blocker, and maybe an AC EMI filter (all these things are fairly cheap) http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-trap-blocker-filter-for-toroidal-transformers-assembled-in-case-/131654666919
 But this all depends on whether you are USB powering your DAC or using a separate power supply.  I use a split USB cable (power & data are split), the one I use is the Light Harmonic Lightspeed 10g, but that is an extreme $1000 usb cable; however the main principle behind it is after your computer does it's 'handshake' with the DAC, you can unplug the power USB side & just leave the data side connected (in theory removing some of the possible noise from your PC to the DAC)
  
 I am just using my system as an example; what ever DAC you buy, you will be tweaking forever (but that is half the fun) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have just bought a SCHAFFNER 6A FN9222EB-6-06 EMI filter for $10 that connects to an AC IEC cable (removes high frequency noise); tweaks don't need to be expensive, you just need to find out where those 'weakest links' are.
 The 'usual suspects' are DC pollution into your AC supply via dimmer switches, refridgerators, SMPS, powerline Ethernet adaptors, (maybe from your PC) etc... & incorrectly shielded/wired interconnects & power cords (you want the shield/braid connected at one side only for an effective EMI shield)
 In my particular case, using a Mac Mini, I'm looking at removing the whole power system & replacing it with a custom Linear power supply Uptone MMK, as I believe I have done everything else possible to have a clean system, I just have the whole  EMI shielding, DC Blocking & LPS for the Mac Mini left to do.
  
 I am guessing you are using a PC, so I can't help you more with PC interference issues (sorry), but all of the above should still be relevant.
  
 Don't worry about it too much, but after you buy your DAC, you can try to fix the noise issues from your PC, or 'filter' the noise to your DAC.
 Just a few suggestions


----------



## sr2002

@rootscript 
  
 Thanks I'll take a loot at it. 
 I actually already tried a UR22MKii usb audio interface (CS4270 DAC) with the balanced out to the LSR305s and was very impressed at how much it transformed the speakers, I was basically hearing things I had never heard from them. The distortion interference was gone, so I don't think the PC is an issue. (I'm also using a EVGA superNova 80Gold PSU, which has good rating for low ripple). The issue I think is that the onboard soundcard is not well shielded from stray noise (which is obvious for a cheap Realtek circuit).


----------



## eshiku

Anyone running M8 on MAC 10.11 El Capitan? I currently have a Modi 2, but the volume control in MAC doesn't work with that(Can only mute and unmute). Will El Capitan's volume control work with M8?


----------



## sr2002

@rootscript 
  
 Another thing that popped up in my mind was that the major reason I'm thinking of the Gustard X12 or the NFB-1DAC is that they have balanced XLR outputs. Wheres the NFB-11 or the M8 only has RCA. Can you comment on the emi/interfernce susceptibility in the real world for a desktop system? (The signal wires will be about 4-6feet in length.) Also, are there better sheilded RCA cables available that can rival XLR? 
 And finally any advantage of having XLR, besides the obvious that I connect to a Powered monitor/pro Amp.


----------



## Triplefun

eshiku said:


> Anyone running M8 on MAC 10.11 El Capitan? I currently have a Modi 2, but the volume control in MAC doesn't work with that(Can only mute and unmute). Will El Capitan's volume control work with M8?


 

 I don't have a mac but saw this somewhere else - see if it helps ...
  
http://recomhub.com/blog/how-to-fix-os-x-el-capitan-sound-not-working-problem/


----------



## Triplefun

see http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/
  
 Unbalanced cables work great for connecting a guitar to an amp, for instance, but because they are not very good at suppressing noise from outside interference, unbalanced cables should have a maximum length of 15-20 feet (4-6 meters), especially when used in noisy environments and with signals that are low level to begin with, such as those from keyboards, guitars, MP3 devices and so on.


----------



## rootscript

It 


eshiku said:


> Anyone running M8 on MAC 10.11 El Capitan? I currently have a Modi 2, but the volume control in MAC doesn't work with that(Can only mute and unmute). Will El Capitan's volume control work with M8?


 
 I'm running Yosemite 10.10.5, and the keyboard volume control isn't meant to work. However there have been times when it did.  I read somewhere that it might be due to drivers & that when you are running the DAC in 32bit mode it might work (so either force the DAC if your players allows you to always use 32bit mode, or try a 32bit music file).
 It may be worth looking at aggregate devices in 'Audio Midi Setup' too (If i remember correctly).
  
 Worth a try


----------



## eshiku

Tried the suggestions but it didn't work  Maybe I should just get something that will work. 
  
 My old Muse X5 works flawlessly, looks like Hifime 9018 works as well.


----------



## Shredder11

bongieto said:


> I am selling my SMSL stack for $350. It Includes M8, P1 and VA2. The price also includes Paypal fees and shipping. Its basically 2 months old. I cannot speak for the other DACs you mentioned but M8 paired with P1 creates a very detailed and smooth music reproduction. Available reviews can attest to the quality of M8.


 

 I bought the same stack brand new and the W6 cables for a total of $324 (£229.50) from the Ebay seller pericross in September 2015.  I'm in the UK so maybe we fair better in the conversion process?  Anyway so long as mine keeps working, I have no plans on upgrading for a while....very happy and satisfied!


----------



## Shredder11

sr2002 said:


> @rootscript
> 
> Another thing that popped up in my mind was that the major reason I'm thinking of the Gustard X12 or the NFB-1DAC is that they have balanced XLR outputs. Wheres the NFB-11 or the M8 only has RCA. Can you comment on the emi/interfernce susceptibility in the real world for a desktop system? (The signal wires will be about 4-6feet in length.) Also, are there better sheilded RCA cables available that can rival XLR?
> And finally any advantage of having XLR, besides the obvious that I connect to a Powered monitor/pro Amp.


 

 Unbalanced outputs on the M8 was one of my main concerns prior to buying it, but I am happy to say my concerns were for nothing because the signal path is completely quiet.  I also have a well equipped music production home studio, and I am well aware of the problems that can happen with unbalanced connections.  Naturally you just have to apply good cable connection practice, e.g. keep audio cable lengths short and keep them well away from power cables where possible, or have them at 90° angles to each other to minimise noise from the power cables leaking into the audio ones etc.


----------



## sr2002

@Shredder11
  
 Thanks a lot for the inputs I really appreciate it. However, I have actually decided to Up my budget and go for a 500-800ish$ DAC instead.


----------



## louisjames

Anyone have opinions on running the M8 off a unit like the ChargeTech Portable Power Outlet? I have one of these and was wondering if using an external powerbank would work and/or be an improvement?
  
 https://chargetech.com/product/portable-power-outlet/


----------



## hpamdr

If you have a regulated 9v battery this should  ok. But good Linear power supply give better results IMHO.


----------



## wwmhf

louisjames said:


> Anyone have opinions on running the M8 off a unit like the ChargeTech Portable Power Outlet? I have one of these and was wondering if using an external powerbank would work and/or be an improvement?
> 
> https://chargetech.com/product/portable-power-outlet/


 
  
 It might be a good power source if you can draw power directly from its battery; otherwise, noise generated from any switching circuit can have a negative impact to a hifi equipment.


----------



## DjBobby

Contemplating on adding the P1 to my M8. Few questions to anybody already using M8 + P1:
  
 1. Does adding P1 change the soundstage? Because it's not so wide and deep right now.
 2. Does adding P1 change the tonal balance, or smoothen the treble? Right now, the bass is punchy, mids somewhat dry and recessed, and treble too hot.
 3. Does adding P1 generally justify the price payed for it, or is the difference between and after, more on the "slightly" level?


----------



## willowbrook

djbobby said:


> Contemplating on adding the P1 to my M8. Few questions to anybody already using M8 + P1:
> 
> 1. Does adding P1 change the soundstage? Because it's not so wide and deep right now.
> 2. Does adding P1 change the tonal balance, or smoothen the treble? Right now, the bass is punchy, mids somewhat dry and recessed, and treble too hot.
> 3. Does adding P1 generally justify the price payed for it, or is the difference between and after, more on the "slightly" level?


 
 I read somewhere on Massdrop about a detailed impression of a guy comparing the M8 with and without LPS as well as some other DACs and matrix x-sabre. He states that the improvements are not dramatic, but there are slight differences in soundstage, adds some detail and refines lows. Nobody should expect a LPS to make drastic differences and certainly not tonal balance change. That would be much more dependent on your amp and cans. However, sabre chips do tend to add some sparkle/air and it varies among DACs, but IMO M8 has none of that.


----------



## bnsb

To my ears it has not changed either 1 OR 2 significantly. But the background hiss or hum have totally vanished.


----------



## willowbrook

bnsb said:


> To my ears it has not changed either 1 OR 2 significantly. But the background hiss or hum have totally vanished.


 
 You can sometimes reduce this significantly by using wasapi or asio instead of DS if you are using USB. A lot of songs tend to have non black background and that's just the way it is. When you have serious problem with your power source interference. I guess that's when LPS comes into play.


----------



## bnsb

I have downloaded asio for dummies (pdf version which someone kindly pointed out on this forum) but have not tried installing, will try when time permits. Thanks.


----------



## fritobugger

djbobby said:


> Contemplating on adding the P1 to my M8. Few questions to anybody already using M8 + P1:
> 
> 1. Does adding P1 change the soundstage? Because it's not so wide and deep right now.
> 2. Does adding P1 change the tonal balance, or smoothen the treble? Right now, the bass is punchy, mids somewhat dry and recessed, and treble too hot.
> 3. Does adding P1 generally justify the price payed for it, or is the difference between and after, more on the "slightly" level?




I couldn't hear a difference between the stock power supply and the P1.


----------



## DjBobby

willowbrook said:


> I read somewhere on Massdrop about a detailed impression of a guy comparing the M8 with and without LPS as well as some other DACs and matrix x-sabre. He states that the improvements are not dramatic, but there are slight differences in soundstage, adds some detail and refines lows. Nobody should expect a LPS to make drastic differences and certainly not tonal balance change. That would be much more dependent on your amp and cans. However, sabre chips do tend to add some sparkle/air and it varies among DACs, but IMO M8 has none of that.


 
  


bnsb said:


> To my ears it has not changed either 1 OR 2 significantly. But the background hiss or hum have totally vanished.


 
  


fritobugger said:


> I couldn't hear a difference between the stock power supply and the P1.


 
  
 Thanks a lot everybody. I have just connected M8 to my amp-floorstanders system and compared flac to CDs, that's where I heard quite a difference. Maybe are Marantz CD players (CS4398) tuned to sound more mellow and I got used to that sound. Anyway M8 sounded to me as I described in my questions.
  
 Only today on AliExpress, if ordered through mobile app, P1 will be $114,79, incl shipment: 
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-NEW-SMSL-P1-Linear-Power-Supply-two-output-for-the-decoder-and-headphone-amp-use/32294484471.html


----------



## wwmhf

djbobby said:


> Contemplating on adding the P1 to my M8. Few questions to anybody already using M8 + P1:
> 
> 1. Does adding P1 change the soundstage? Because it's not so wide and deep right now.
> 2. Does adding P1 change the tonal balance, or smoothen the treble? Right now, the bass is punchy, mids somewhat dry and recessed, and treble too hot.
> 3. Does adding P1 generally justify the price payed for it, or is the difference between and after, more on the "slightly" level?


 
  
 P1 itself definitely does not justify the price because one can easily make a much better one with that amount of money; however, it justifies the price if it improve the sound.
  
 Then one I made by pooling some parts together definitely improves the sound of M8. I just need a little more time to package it in a nicer box.


----------



## willowbrook

Anyone know if op amps can be swapped? I saw somewhere that it uses 3 OPA 1612


----------



## Ustas

If you handy with SMT soldering then yes op-amps could be changed, but to try different chips you need to put in swapping sockets first.


----------



## willowbrook

ustas said:


> If you handy with SMT soldering then yes op-amps could be changed, but to try different chips you need to put in swapping sockets first.


 
 Yea...none of that for me. Never tried DIY before. Haven't swapped OPA 1612 before, but I think there is greater potential.


----------



## wwmhf

willowbrook said:


> Anyone know if op amps can be swapped? I saw somewhere that it uses 3 OPA 1612


 
  
 It will be difficult for most of us if not impossible.


----------



## willowbrook

wwmhf said:


> It will be difficult for most of us if not impossible.



I'm hoping to upgrade to a full discrete DAC like X-12 soon because the fact I can't change them bothers me..


----------



## DjBobby

Maybe I am just impatient at the moment, but decided to depart from my M8, only after one month. Clean and superb resolution it is, but there was some forwardness in the sound which was not quite to my taste. So right now my (less than) month old M8 is for sale.


----------



## Aplle

Is there any way to get the M8's display to dim or turn off while music is playing?


----------



## Triplefun

aplle said:


> Is there any way to get the M8's display to dim or turn off while music is playing?


 
  
 If too bright then use one or more layers of 'cellotape' to reduce the glare.


----------



## Triplefun

I'm looking at PSU alternatives. $140 seems a lot to pay for the P1 given the original cost of the M8. Has anyone tried the HiFiMeDIY options including http://hifimediy.com/power-supplies/ready-made-power-supplies/0-to-32-adjustable-power-supply ($55) or even http://hifimediy.com/power-supplies/ready-made-power-supplies/PSM3plus-Power-supply-110V ($30). The latter is designed specifically for the Sabre DAC, is rated at only 8v, and is probably half way between the P1 and Walmart. I have also had it confirmed that it is linear so I see no reason why it shouldn't work.


----------



## DjBobby

aplle said:


> Is there any way to get the M8's display to dim or turn off while music is playing?


 

 The reviewer on UK Amazon wrote that anyway, the oled display starts fading away after some time: 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/M8-Optical-Coaxial-Asynchronous-Decoder/dp/B00XVSX8Z2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459837979&sr=8-1&keywords=smsl+m8


----------



## bwcgrx

djbobby said:


> The reviewer on UK Amazon wrote that anyway, the oled display starts fading away after some time:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/M8-Optical-Coaxial-Asynchronous-Decoder/dp/B00XVSX8Z2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459837979&sr=8-1&keywords=smsl+m8


 
  
 I've noticed the same issue with the oled display of the M8 becoming dimmer.  It was brought to my attention recently when I changed the input from USB to coax and all the led elements that are not normally lit up on the display when in USB mode were much brighter.
  
 It's been a fabulous unit and a great deal at the Massdrop price of around $150.  The longevity of the oled display is a bit of concern however as I've only owned the unit since around September of last year.  Being able to turn the display off would have been a nice feature.


----------



## fritobugger

triplefun said:


> I'm looking at PSU alternatives. $140 seems a lot to pay for the P1 given the original cost of the M8. Has anyone tried the HiFiMeDIY options including http://hifimediy.com/power-supplies/ready-made-power-supplies/0-to-32-adjustable-power-supply ($55) or even http://hifimediy.com/power-supplies/ready-made-power-supplies/PSM3plus-Power-supply-110V ($30). The latter is designed specifically for the Sabre DAC, is rated at only 8v, and is probably half way between the P1 and Walmart. I have also had it confirmed that it is linear so I see no reason why it shouldn't work.


 
  
  
 The 0 to 32 adjustable unit just has positive/negative banana post outputs on the back so it would take some DIY to make an interconnect for the M8.  The PSM3plus unit doesn't output 9v which is what the M8 needs.


----------



## Triplefun

... and the 'cheap' Walmart 9v switched power unit is guaranteed 9v+/-?  The hifidiy people have assured me that the NZ standard 240v will realise 9v DC from the linear psm3plus psu. It's not in stock at the moment but I will try one when available to see if it makes a difference. A linear psu for a dac should always be superior to a switched psu. If the improvement is half way between the Walmart 9v switched supplied with the smsl m8 and the $140 p1 then I consider the $30 well spent.


----------



## misfits73

Sound wise, what's the best connection between PC and DAC, optical or USB?
 WASAPI or ASIO?
 Not interested for DSD playback, just up to 24/96 files


----------



## willowbrook

misfits73 said:


> Sound wise, what's the best connection between PC and DAC, optical or USB?
> WASAPI or ASIO?
> Not interested for DSD playback, just up to 24/96 files


 
 Opinion varies among people, some people think one way is inferior and some think both are the same. If you have problem with USB, it would be wise to use optical. They are both digital, so unless you notice a serious problem, I doubt you'd notice the difference.


----------



## hpamdr

triplefun said:


> ... and the 'cheap' Walmart 9v switched power unit is guaranteed 9v+/-?  The hifidiy people have assured me that the NZ standard 240v will realise 9v DC from the linear psm3plus psu. It's not in stock at the moment but I will try one when available to see if it makes a difference. A linear psu for a dac should always be superior to a switched psu. If the improvement is half way between the Walmart 9v switched supplied with the smsl m8 and the $140 p1 then I consider the $30 well spent.



If you want to replace the original power supply, you must get a better one. Most of the small power unit are not as well regulated than the one you got. 
If you go for diy, you will need a transformer prefer a toroidal with two secondary of 6 to 8v and power a linear power supply board kit, put all into a metalic cabinet, get iec socket and cable, and a 2A plug to connect m8. With this bom, you can have an idea of the final cost.


----------



## bnsb

I had a fair bit of struggle installing ASIO over Foobar2000. Out of curiosity I downloaded 30 days trial version of JRiver. There is no noticeable change in sound reproduction. But I liked two things here a) You can set DirectX ASIO or Xmos options from drop down menu, simple as it gets b) You can set output to Headphone, tones down the whole sound stage to pleasant non-fatigue mode. Good for long sessions or loud music.
 Down side is you have to pay $50.


----------



## willowbrook

bnsb said:


> I had a fair bit of struggle installing ASIO over Foobar2000. Out of curiosity I downloaded 30 days trial version of JRiver. There is no noticeable change in sound reproduction. But I liked two things here a) You can set DirectX ASIO or Xmos options from drop down menu, simple as it gets b) You can set output to Headphone, tones down the whole sound stage to pleasant non-fatigue mode. Good for long sessions or loud music.
> Down side is you have to pay $50.


 
 I would recommend Musicbee, it already supports wasapi and asio. Very friendly UI and free!


----------



## bnsb

Have read about Musicbee but have not tried it. Is it not a one man band? Sorry could have googled and found out!


----------



## rootscript

Just a little report back about my experience with my SMSL M8 (purchased via massdrop).
  
 I use it connected to my Mac via USB using a Light Harmonic LightSpeed 10G USB cable.
  
 I have an old Panasonic DVD-L10, that has been sitting around for 10 years, so I tried connecting it to the M8 DAC via an optical cable (Fisual Pearl Mini Toslink to Toslink Optical Cable 0.5m) very good quality for an £8 optical cable.
  
 I use the switch on the front of the M8 to change between USB & optical, and I am pretty happy being able to listen to some of my old CDs.
  
 In regards to the M8 filter settings, I seemed to have settled on 'Slow', rather than 'Mini' or 'Fast'.
  
 I have also tried connecting the Mac Mini to the M8 via Mini Toslink to Toslink, and it also sounds pretty good (Optical is a good choice if you want to help eliminate any 'noise' that might effect the signals that normally happen from computer to DAC via USB cables), and you can get great optical cables for very little money (Fisual Pearl Toslink is a good starter cable).
  
 For a Music Player, I have just started a trial of Roon Player, it is available for Mac & Windows (Android Tablets and Ipads (smaller UI apps for phones coming soon, I believe)), the best part about this player is that it has great MetaData support, but it is also Networkable, so I can have my Mac Mini connected to my M8 DAC & amplifier & speakers, and use roon to play my music, but can also control everything from other devices or computers.  You can have more than one 'End Point', so you could have three different music systems (with 3 different DACs etc...) around the house & play your collection to any of them.
 Here is a link to try out the player, Window & Mac (It has SO many hidden features) http://roonlabs.com/downloads.html
  
 Here is another link to the Youtube channel from the 'The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel' that explains a little about the player: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrRfhWcLoqA
 and the part 2 video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEDRA54q5nM
  
 And an older video giving a simpler overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1LvfgOQ3JY
  
 One Thing I like about Roon, is when I put any Flac files into my Roon music folder, it can automatically tidy them up putting them under Artists > Albums etc...
  
 The is still one input connection (Coaxial) left unused on the back of the M8 DAC, so for people who have lots of DACs or sources, you can switch between them quite easily.  I never really thought of using the M8 as a source selector, but it works quite well for me.  To recap I use the USB in play music from my Mac Mini, the Toslink in to play CDs from my external player, and I have Coaxial left over for another input.  The M8 is connected to my tube amp & speakers, it is all quite convenient.
  
 No rocket science here, just a simple bit of feedback explaining how useful I find the M8.


----------



## Nelska

Hello everybody,
  
 Firstly my apologies for my very perfectible English, I'm French.
 I desperately tried to test Daphile with my SMSL M8. In the Daphile audio device settings, the M8 look like well recognized (xMOS USB Audio 2.0) but I can't get any sound.

 Thank you in advance if anyone have an experience about this problem and can help me to configure Daphile settings for this dac.
 Maybe i forgot something in other settings ? maybe i missed a new SMSL firmware ?

 My M8 work very well with Audioengine D2 Dac ... So I guess the problem don't come from the M8...
  


 Thank you for your help !


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone not wanting to wait for massdrop on one of these little guys? Send me a pm!


----------



## Triplefun

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone not wanting to wait for massdrop on one of these little guys? Send me a pm!


 

 fyi, I live in NZ I ordered one of these from MassDrop on 14 March; the deal closed 16 March; the order shipped to Massdrop from SMSL on 23 March; was shipped to me on 26 March with tracking number; and I received it in NZ (from Germany?) on 5 April. I have no complaints, especially considering the price I paid.


----------



## lenroot77

triplefun said:


> fyi, I live in NZ I ordered one of these from MassDrop on 14 March; the deal closed 16 March; the order shipped to Massdrop from SMSL on 23 March; was shipped to me on 26 March with tracking number; and I received it in NZ (from Germany?) on 5 April. I have no complaints, especially considering the price I paid.




Was referring to the current drop having 5 days left. Massdrop is usually quick with shipping once they receive the products from the manufacturer.


----------



## hpamdr

nelska said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> Firstly my apologies for my very perfectible English, I'm French.
> I desperately tried to test Daphile with my SMSL M8. In the Daphile audio device settings, the M8 look like well recognized (xMOS USB Audio 2.0) but I can't get any sound.
> ...


 

 With Daphile and M8, you have to tick the both Mixers Control and use bitperfect volume control.


----------



## Nelska

hpamdr said:


> With Daphile and M8, you have to tick the both Mixers Control and use bitperfect volume control.


 
  
  
 Wow !!!  Thank you so much my friend !  It's work very well now ... and Daphile associated with the M8 delivers results beyond my expectations. I'm very happy !
  
 Thank you for your help and have a nice week-end !


----------



## rikk009

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone not wanting to wait for massdrop on one of these little guys? Send me a pm!


 
 I think you sold your unit?


----------



## rikk009

triplefun said:


> I'm looking at PSU alternatives. $140 seems a lot to pay for the P1 given the original cost of the M8. Has anyone tried the HiFiMeDIY options including http://hifimediy.com/power-supplies/ready-made-power-supplies/0-to-32-adjustable-power-supply ($55) or even http://hifimediy.com/power-supplies/ready-made-power-supplies/PSM3plus-Power-supply-110V ($30). The latter is designed specifically for the Sabre DAC, is rated at only 8v, and is probably half way between the P1 and Walmart. I have also had it confirmed that it is linear so I see no reason why it shouldn't work.


 
 I was thinking the same and this seems better to me since it's an ifi product and they claim it has much less noise than an LPS
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
 Costs $50


----------



## bongieto

I have the whole SMSL stack (M8,VA1, P1)  for sale in the classifieds. Its a very good price.


----------



## willowbrook

rikk009 said:


> I was thinking the same and this seems better to me since it's an ifi product and they claim it has much less noise than an LPS
> http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
> Costs $50


 

 Wow, that looks like a very promising addition. Not too expensive either. The adjustable DC power supply that @lenroot77 linked also looks promising. Not sure how to go on about plugging it into the M8 though.


----------



## Aplle

yoochoobb said:


> A late reply to the post by hpamdr regarding the auto shutdown annoyance:
> I posted a hint plus short review "_How to defeat the auto-off feature of the SMSL M8_*" *on Amazon last month. Holding the power button down for two seconds will toggle this feature, and it is remembered between shutdowns. The M8 will power on if you disconnect/reconnect its power source, but turning off auto-standby renders this unnecessary. I also mentioned a BIOS feature my motherboard has, which can optionally cut power to two specific USB ports for externally powered DACs, such as the SMSL M8.
> I am currently awaiting shipment on an iFi iPower variable output (inc. 9V) "audiophile" AC/DC adapter - not a Linear Power Supply, but supposedly has lower noise than a LPS, according to their website - http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/
> It's around $50 from MusicDirect.com, but shipment estimate is 4-6 weeks. No word yet, and tomorrow is the 6-week mark since my order went through. I'll give it another week till I contact them.
> [EDIT: Just got word it shipped today]


 
 How did the iPower work out for you?


----------



## Yoochoobb

I had to return two units before I got one that worked i.e. powered up. It's fine, but I can't really tell the difference from the original power supply. I should do more testing to confirm this, though.


----------



## rikk009

willowbrook said:


> Wow, that looks like a very promising addition. Not too expensive either. The adjustable DC power supply that @lenroot77 linked also looks promising. Not sure how to go on about plugging it into the M8 though.


 
 They offer a range of tips as accesories:
DC Adapters:
                   5.5×2.1mm input/5.5×2.5mm output (‘C’ black)
                   5.5×2.1mm input/4.8×1.7mm output (‘F’ black)
                   5.5×2.1mm input/4.0×1.7mm output (‘G’ black)
                   5.5×2.1mm input/3.5×1.35mm output (‘H’ black)
                   5.5×2.1mm right-angled extension cable.
                   5.5×2.1mm input/5.5×2.5mm output; Reverse Polarity Plug (‘C’ white)
  
And the performance is equal to a LPS if not better
 https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/04/13/ifi-ipower-for-the-raspberry-streamer/


----------



## PhilDent

Sorry if this is a noob question, but I just bought the smsl m8 DAC on massdrop and I'm wondering what is the best way to integrate it into my system. I have a Yamaha dsp 3090 receiver that has coaxial, optical, and rca line in. Which is the best option for best resolution?


----------



## Triplefun

phildent said:


> Sorry if this is a noob question, but I just bought the smsl m8 DAC on massdrop and I'm wondering what is the best way to integrate it into my system. I have a Yamaha dsp 3090 receiver that has coaxial, optical, and rca line in. Which is the best option for best resolution?


 
  
 The SMSL M8 is a DAC which converts a digital sound source to analog. You would connect your audio digital source (CD player digital output (coax), PC, dvd player (coax)) to one of the SMSL inputs (USB, coax, optical). Then the 2 x phono outputs on the SMSL to an analog input on the receiver (eg. CD).
  
 You would then listen using the 'direct' playback settings on the receiver - looking at the manual you would need to set the 'effect' switch on the front panel to off.
  
 If you use the 'effect' then the Yamaha will convert the analog signal output by the SMSL to digital, process it according to the selected sound effect, and then generate an analog signal for output to the speakers,. This defeats the value of the SMSL.


----------



## Cukedaddy

phildent said:


> Sorry if this is a noob question, but I just bought the smsl m8 DAC on massdrop and I'm wondering what is the best way to integrate it into my system. I have a Yamaha dsp 3090 receiver that has coaxial, optical, and rca line in. Which is the best option for best resolution?


your best resolution will be optical


----------



## PhilDent

Thanks for the help. I figured that I should use the rca line outs from the m8. If I were to use the optical or coax output from the m8 wouldn't the digital to analog conversion be handled by the receiver instead of the m8? Am I understanding this properly? Or are the coax and optical connections inputs only and there is no option for optical or coax out of the m8?


----------



## fritobugger

phildent said:


> Thanks for the help. I figured that I should use the rca line outs from the m8. If I were to use the optical or coax output from the m8 wouldn't the digital to analog conversion be handled by the receiver instead of the m8? Am I understanding this properly? Or are the coax and optical connections inputs only and there is no option for optical or coax out of the m8?




The M8 only has RCA line out. The optical, coax, and USB are all inputs.


----------



## PhilDent

Thank you all for your help. Now I just have to wait until it arrives. Can anyone suggest a track or tracks where the m8 really shines?


----------



## ozrick

7 weeks in and still loving my M8.  My hodgepodge setup is:
  
 PC->Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium HD->optical->SMSL M8->Yamaha CR-2040->CV dx9's
  
 I've heard others talk about how hot the unit gets.  Mine stays cool.  I guess maybe because I just use optical thus not having to power the XMOS usb chip?  If that's the case then maybe the P1 isn't very useful at all with optical.  I don't know.
  
 Found a paper on the filters Fast, Slow, and Mini roll off filters.  Left me perplexed why they have the selection there at all as these filters came about in an evolutionary fashion, and of course now I can't find the paper, but the short of it is that Mini is the latest filter, and later on we'll be seeing a 'Mini-Slow' filter as the next iteration iirc.


----------



## Aplle

I'm using the USB input, and my M8 gets a little warm to the touch, not what I would call hot though.


----------



## Firschi

Same here.


----------



## iBrian

You know after trying out the Schiit Gungnir and even the Yggy. I have found that I liked the M8 with the L1 just as much to run my Bryston BHA-1. I know I will get crap for saying that but. I really miss that setup. I may have to get another one


----------



## mikesale

Has anyone else had issues with the M8 working, then not starting when hitting the power button?


----------



## Triplefun

mikesale said:


> Has anyone else had issues with the M8 working, then not starting when hitting the power button?


 

 No - but you might have difficulties if you turn it off when the device is 'locked' ie. when the play back sw is attempting to reset the playback mode - dsd or psm ?


----------



## wwmhf

olewhiskey said:


> You know after trying out the Schiit Gungnir and even the Yggy. I have found that I liked the M8 with the L1 just as much to run my Bryston BHA-1. I know I will get crap for saying that but. I really miss that setup. I may have to get another one


 
  
 I have a similar feeling for M8 which runs with my a good power supply assembled by myself.


----------



## whill

Hi Guys!
  
 Does SMSL can really play DSD natively? I am planning to get one but i am a bit hesitant of the quality and quite skeptical of being DSD DAC at such a low price.
  
 Thank you for your inputs.


----------



## fritobugger

Plays my DSD files without a problem.


----------



## willowbrook

Anyone interested in wanting one at the same price of the drop, I have one for sale that works well. I'd like to pass it off to anyone who needs it dearly at a cheap price. Please do not misunderstand this as an advertisement.


----------



## Aplle

whill said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Does SMSL can really play DSD natively? I am planning to get one but i am a bit hesitant of the quality and quite skeptical of being DSD DAC at such a low price.
> 
> Thank you for your inputs.


 
 It works fine for me. If you have your music player configured properly, the M8's display will read DSD64 or DSD128 when you play the files.


----------



## Chillzone21

Damn I still have not tried an ESS Sabre 9018 dac yet, heard a lot of good things about them.


----------



## rikk009

chillzone21 said:


> Damn I still have not tried an ESS Sabre 9018 dac yet, heard a lot of good things about them.


 
 Hifime sells a cheap and popular version http://hifimediy.com/Sabre-9018-DAC


----------



## musedesign

olewhiskey said:


> You know after trying out the Schiit Gungnir and even the Yggy. I have found that I liked the M8 with the L1 just as much to run my Bryston BHA-1. I know I will get crap for saying that but. I really miss that setup. I may have to get another one


 
  
 Dear fifty6K,
   Very interesting.  Thinking about getting an M8 and if you don't mind, could you say a little about why you prefer it to the Schiit Gungnir or the Yggy ?
  
 I looked at your profile and your very impressive list of equipment, so you know of what you speak.  Thank you !


----------



## PhilDent

"It works fine for me. If you have your music player configured properly, the M8's display will read DSD64 or DSD128 when you play the files." -aplle

I'm using Foobar 2000 and the smsl plays displays 96k even when I'm playing a DSD file. Is Foobar playing the DSD file with conversion to PCM or is there something on the m8 that I need to change?


----------



## Shredder11

phildent said:


> "It works fine for me. If you have your music player configured properly, the M8's display will read DSD64 or DSD128 when you play the files." -aplle
> 
> I'm using Foobar 2000 and the smsl plays displays 96k even when I'm playing a DSD file. Is Foobar playing the DSD file with conversion to PCM or is there something on the m8 that I need to change?


 
  
  
 Mine is running on Windows XP Pro SP3 and I did the setup using the procedure explained in this tutorial http://jlsounds.com/uploads/foobar_ASIO_setup.pdf


----------



## PhilDent

I hooked up my cell phone and tablet using USB Audio App Pro to the m8 and played a DSD file and the m8 displayed 384kh. I'm still confused if it's processing DSD natively.


----------



## PhilDent

Edit above *USB Audio Player Pro*


----------



## Shredder11

I initially used my SMSL M8 with other devices and had mixed results, e.g. on my Synology DS415+ NAS it refused to play standard 16-bit 44.1KHz files, but played extracted DSD images (DFF files) with no problems and even DXD, and it did not work at all with my smartphone.  So I just use it properly with my Thinkpad laptop and foobar, and everything works perfectly.


----------



## Feta

SMSL M8 is on massdrop again - https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-m8
 The lowest price is 174.99$.


----------



## iBrian

feta said:


> SMSL M8 is on massdrop again - https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-m8
> The lowest price is 174.99$.




thats $30 more than the last time they dropped. that is a sucky price


----------



## Feta

The same thing was with Gustard H10 (drop ended today), where the loest price was 30-40$ higher than before.


----------



## PhilDent

My smsl m8 just stopped working. None of my devices recognize it: my PC running foobar2000,my LG G3 running usb audio player pro, and my LG tablet running usb audio player pro. I have done the usual diagnostics of powering on and off/unplugging/& swapping cables but all of my devices suddenly will not detect it. I would appreciate any tips since I'm totally frustrated right now. Don't know if I have a lemon, and if I do, how so no get it replaced. I bought it on Massdrop and I don't know their return policy.


----------



## Triplefun

Were the other devices connecting to it before it stopped working, or just the PC?  With the PC try reinstalling the USB driver after doing a full uninstall first. Does the M8 show anything on the display?


----------



## PhilDent

On the PC I uninstalled Foobar 2000, then reinstalled it but no joy. I then hooked it back up to my smartphone and tablet running usb audio player pro, but suddenly it Did not detect a usb device


----------



## mikesale

phildent said:


> My smsl m8 just stopped working. ... I bought it on Massdrop and I don't know their return policy.


 
 My experience with Massdrop on returns for warranty issues has been stellar.


----------



## PhilDent

Thanks. I contacted them and I'm waiting for a reply.


----------



## rikk009

phildent said:


> My smsl m8 just stopped working. None of my devices recognize it: my PC running foobar2000,my LG G3 running usb audio player pro, and my LG tablet running usb audio player pro. I have done the usual diagnostics of powering on and off/unplugging/& swapping cables but all of my devices suddenly will not detect it. I would appreciate any tips since I'm totally frustrated right now. Don't know if I have a lemon, and if I do, how so no get it replaced. I bought it on Massdrop and I don't know their return policy.


 
 This seems like a consistant problem on SMSL products. Even my friend's Sanskrit Dac malfunctioned a few weeks back.


----------



## JenniferG

Just purchased one of these DAC's from Amazon.  I'll have it in two days -- can't wait.
  
 Since the DAC has a built in 7805 voltage regulator to bring down the 9V DC to 5V DC, shouldn't I be able to get away with a non-regulated source DC supply?
  
 If I can get a 6 1/2 volt or so transformer, after a 4 way bridge rectifier it will be about 9 volts.  Put some nice nichicon caps on the supply board ... then feed that unregulated power to the DAC? 
  
 Would this make it less noisy having one less regulator in the path?  Or is this a bad idea?


----------



## Katji

imo, it's an unnecessary idea. ...A tinkering idea.


----------



## JenniferG

Well if you read through this thread you'll notice the recommendation of a linear power supply many times -- that it sounds better.
  
 So I want a linear power supply.  Maybe you'll be happy with the switching -- but I want to at least try a linear.


----------



## JenniferG

I also have a Pyramid PS-3KX 13.8V regulated linear power supply sitting here -- which I am using with a 7805 and my Fiio D3 V1.
  
 I could buy a 7809 voltage regulator and feed the 13.8V from this power supply into it.  Wonder how it would sound?
  
 I am really curious as to how much better the SMSL M8 will be over my $30 FIIO D3 V1 dac for PCM.  I'll know Friday -- that's when Amazon says I'll get my SMSL M8.
  
 I was considering the V90, but I noticed it wasn't mentioned once in this 47 page thread.  Why is that you suppose?


----------



## Katji

That's why i got the SMSL LPS, based on good credible trials, somewhere around the first pages of the thread.


----------



## JenniferG

Well I don't want the P1 for several reasons (e.g. cost, looks, heat etc..) -- I want to build my own.  So my idea is "necessary" and I guess I must "tinker".


----------



## JenniferG

I was looking into a few DACs, because I want to upgrade.  I see a lot of the ones I looked into were mentioned here in this thread.  However, I haven't seen the Music Fidelity V90 mentioned once in this thread.  It was one I was considering but ended up getting the SMSL M8 and will have it Friday.  Just curious how the V90 compares.
  
 Also if anyone has had the FIIO D3 V1 (like I have now) and know how much of an improvement this SMSL M8 has over it, I'd appreciate those comments.  Hoping this sounds a lot better.


----------



## JenniferG

So I decided I am going to build a linear regulated power supply.
  
 Just ordered the Antek 9V 25VA toroidal transformer for $18 including shipping:
  
 http://www.antekinc.com/an-0209-25va-9v-transformer/
  
 Going to be ordering ASAP the follow DC supply regulator board (for around $30 I guess)  -- it's very low noise, much better than 78XXX family and LM317 :
  
 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/263618-tps7a4700-low-noise-ldo-regulator-pcb.html
  
 I'll be placing it in any spare chasis I can find or possibly in a $40 2205 case that would match my DIY preamp (used the 2205 for preamp as well) :
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/D-2205-Full-Aluminum-amplifier-Enclosure-mini-AMP-case-Preamp-box-PSU-chassis-/161809368520


----------



## Shredder11

I own the SMSL M8 and love it but I had a quick peek at one online review for the Music Fidelity V90, and it suggests it is very dull and flawed.  http://www.whathifi.com/musical-fidelity/v90-dac/review .
  
 Another long and detailed review thinks it sounds not as good as the Cambridge DAC Magic Plus, which also is not as good as the SMSL M8 and hence why I bought the M8.  http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/musical-fidelity/v90-dac.htm
  
 It lacks support for DSD and higher frequencies, so it all depends on how much you desire to hear things like that.


----------



## Aplle

I just tried the M8's optical input for the first time, and I have to say, there seems to be a big difference compared to USB. I'm not sure why, but it seems like the highs were really lacking with USB.
  
 edit: I'm not even sure which input I prefer at this point, but it's clear that they don't sound the same. Need to do more testing.


----------



## PhilDent

After a week or so of back and forth, Massdrop offered to refund or replace my non functioning SMSL M8 DAC. They say the replacement will take "weeks". I bought it for $150, so I don't know if I can find a DSD capable replacement at that price point. Any recommendations from the group? Wait it out and take another chance on SMSL quality or get a refund and look for something else?


----------



## bongieto

phildent said:


> After a week or so of back and forth, Massdrop offered to refund or replace my non functioning SMSL M8 DAC. They say the replacement will take "weeks". I bought it for $150, so I don't know if I can find a DSD capable replacement at that price point. Any recommendations from the group? Wait it out and take another chance on SMSL quality or get a refund and look for something else?




Buy my SMSL stack for 250, you take care of paypal and shipping. I am sure its working and for the price, its definitely your gain. Very low use as i have numerous sets. Let me know.


----------



## Aplle

phildent said:


> After a week or so of back and forth, Massdrop offered to refund or replace my non functioning SMSL M8 DAC. They say the replacement will take "weeks". I bought it for $150, so I don't know if I can find a DSD capable replacement at that price point. Any recommendations from the group? Wait it out and take another chance on SMSL quality or get a refund and look for something else?


 
 As far as budget DSD DACs go, I think hifimediy has some options as well.
  
 I've heard of a few people having problems with the M8, but there's no way of knowing if the failure rate is higher than other similar products. I haven't had any probs with mine though.


----------



## JenniferG

Anyone know which voltage regulators are in the SMSL P1?  Is it 78XXX family or a lower noise one?


----------



## DangerClose

ozrick said:


> Sounds great but definitely different than the pcm179x dacs both the sd-793II & Soundblaster use.  I'll give it a couple of days for any 'burn-in' to be had and see what I've got here.


 
  
 M8 sounds different than PCM1793 SD-793II in what way?


----------



## donunus

subscribed


----------



## SeeSax

Would you guys recommend this DAC over the Dacmagic Plus, Arcam RDac and Micromega MyDac? Those are sort of the front runners for me right now. Looking for the best DAC I can get for around 300 bucks to pair with my newly acquired Project Ember. Thanks for any thoughts. 
  
 -Collin-


----------



## Triplefun

seesax said:


> Would you guys recommend this DAC over the Dacmagic Plus, Arcam RDac and Micromega MyDac? Those are sort of the front runners for me right now. Looking for the best DAC I can get for around 300 bucks to pair with my newly acquired Project Ember. Thanks for any thoughts.
> 
> -Collin-


 
 Get the smsl m8. Wait for it to appear on massdrop. The smsl m8 uses es9018k2m chip which has high definition, supports dsd128 over pcm and will go well with the project. The arcam and dacmagic are dated and both due for a refresh! Also look at the smsl p1 as a future upgrade. What is your source? Have you explored DSD up sampling?


----------



## SeeSax

triplefun said:


> Get the smsl m8. Wait for it to appear on massdrop. The smsl m8 uses es9018k2m chip which has high definition, supports dsd128 over pcm and will go well with the project. The arcam and dacmagic are dated and both due for a refresh! Also look at the smsl p1 as a future upgrade. What is your source? Have you explored DSD up sampling?


 
  
 I'm familiar with that chip - I've had it in two cell phones, my Oppo HA-2 and my Dragonfly Red. Gosh, I really wanted to try something else, but I know it's more about the implementation 
  
 My source is just my desktop computer playing Tidal, so nothing elaborate. Never explored DSD up sampling. Honestly I was leaning toward the Micromega MyDac, but if you guys think this one is superior then I will give it a try. 
  
 Thank you!
  
 Forgot to mention, it's $225 on eBay new. Would MassDrop be less?
  
 -Collin-


----------



## Triplefun

seesax said:


> I'm familiar with that chip - I've had it in two cell phones, my Oppo HA-2 and my Dragonfly Red. Gosh, I really wanted to try something else, but I know it's more about the implementation
> 
> My source is just my desktop computer playing Tidal, so nothing elaborate. Never explored DSD up sampling. Honestly I was leaning toward the Micromega MyDac, but if you guys think this one is superior then I will give it a try.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Dragonfly uses the cheaper Es9016; but the oppo does indeed use the 9018. While true regarding the implementation there is a Sabre personality.  I have the M8 and found it more detailed than the Schiit Loki. I find DSD upsampling adds more dynamics to the music without losing the finer points of depth and separation. Make sure you have a good processor (CPU) to handle the processing  - need to score 2400 or more on Jriver benchmark. And then of course there are the issues of cables and jitter.
  
 MassDrop recently sold the m8 for $160; and $150 before that.  They seem to do a run every 6 weeks? But the delivery can take some time.


----------



## Triplefun

triplefun said:


> The Dragonfly uses the cheaper Es9016; but the oppo does indeed use the 9018. While true regarding the implementation there is a Sabre personality.  I have the M8 and found it more detailed than the Schiit Loki. I find DSD upsampling adds more dynamics to the music without losing the finer points of depth and separation. Make sure you have a good processor (CPU) to handle the processing  - need to score 2400 or more on Jriver benchmark. And then of course there are the issues of cables and jitter.
> 
> MassDrop recently sold the m8 for $160; and $150 before that.  They seem to do a run every 6 weeks? But the delivery can take some time.


 
  
 Note http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-m8-es9018k2m-24bit-384khz-dsd-dac-optical-coaxial-xmos-usb-asynchronous-decoder.html is doing the M8 for US$200 with free shipping.


----------



## drteming

I was getting USB noise with my properly grounded BCL clone amp with the M8.  The noise is not quite noticeable at normal listening volumes, but with the music stopped and the amp turned all the way up, I could hear the typical chirps and squeak from the computer.  I figured the noise is because the M8 is not grounded to earth (with the switching supply) and the noise is passed through to the amp.  With my O2 and xDuoo TA-02, the noise is not there because those amps are not connected to ground earth.  I contemplated building my own properly grounded linear supply, but happened upon a good deal on the P1 on ebay, with the bonus factor of matching aesthetics. 
  
 I got the power supply yesterday, and it was labeled as the 240V version, although it came with a 125V power cord (without a ground pin no less!).  Checking the voltage, the 9V output measured 7.5V, so definitely a 240V version.  Googling turned up a picture of the internals showing the transformer is a double 115V primary.  I cracked open the base plate and lo and behold:
  

  
 This is after modification.  The original one has a jumper between points 4 and 5 (per the red line).  It took all of 5 minutes to cut the jumper, desolder it, and solder in 2 new jumpers.
  
 Popped in a 125V fuse:
  

  
 The 9V output now measured 9.07V, perfect.
  
 The USB noise is gone!  Soundwise, if there is a difference, I cannot tell.  Looks cool stacked on the M8 with an old Pentium 4 heatsink hat.


----------



## Shredder11

I have the M8 and P1 and can say there is zero noise of any kind at any volume.  I've not tested the voltage output with a meter to see if it is 9V though.  I'm in the UK so I am using the 3-pin plug at 240V.


----------



## fritobugger

drteming said:


> I was getting USB noise with my properly grounded BCL clone amp with the M8.  The noise is not quite noticeable at normal listening volumes, but with the music stopped and the amp turned all the way up, I could hear the typical chirps and squeak from the computer.  I figured the noise is because the M8 is not grounded to earth (with the switching supply) and the noise is passed through to the amp.  With my O2 and xDuoo TA-02, the noise is not there because those amps are not connected to ground earth.  I contemplated building my own properly grounded linear supply, but happened upon a good deal on the P1 on ebay, with the bonus factor of matching aesthetics.
> 
> I got the power supply yesterday, and it was labeled as the 240V version, although it came with a 125V power cord (without a ground pin no less!).  Checking the voltage, the 9V output measured 7.5V, so definitely a 240V version.  Googling turned up a picture of the internals showing the transformer is a double 115V primary.  I cracked open the base plate and lo and behold:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 So you had to cut out the existing jumpers and add two new jumpers 4 to 5 and 3 to 6 or only the one shown by the red line as 4 to 5?


----------



## drteming

fritobugger said:


> So you had to cut out the existing jumpers and add two new jumpers 4 to 5 and 3 to 6 or only the one shown by the red line as 4 to 5?




The original 230V configuration has a jumper between points 4 and 5, as indicated by the red line. Points 3 and 6 were open. The picture showed the board after modification to the 115V configuration.


----------



## pilsnermonkey

Just received mine from ebay seller aoshida. Minimum bid was $160 USD. Made the $160 bid and won. Free shipping. Came to $205 Canadian. Great deal.
  
 Pic for scale vs. Teac


----------



## DjBobby

pilsnermonkey said:


> Just received mine from ebay seller aoshida. Minimum bid was $160 USD. Made the $160 bid and won. Free shipping. Came to $205 Canadian. Great deal.
> 
> Pic for scale vs. Teac


 
  
 And how does it sound compared to Teac?


----------



## pilsnermonkey

That is going to take a couple of days to figure out but I will report back. Will be comparing both on office set up through an older NAD 3020i and on 'main' system which is a current model NAD 326Cbee.


----------



## Pepo

Received my M8 from Massdrop last week.
 I use it with my Squeezebox Touch (24/192) over coaxial, my CD player over optical and laptop over USB.
 The DAC is still burning in and improving. I am very happy with the sound and the DAC in general so far.
 On the Windows 7 laptop I am using JRiver software (MC 21).
 I have installed the driver on the CD and ASIO4All.
 I can only play DSD over WASAPI audio device. They play great and also correctly display DSD64 on the DAC.
 However I can not play the DSD files if I choose ASIO as audio device.
 Is this normal?
 Anybody playing DSD with ASIO audio device selected on JRiver?
 Any tips?
  
 P.S. The official SMSL website http://www.smslaudio.com/ seems to be down. Do the have a new website?


----------



## misfits73

Occasionally the P1 turns off and after a sec back on during playback.
 Has happened 5-6 times so far,i thought maybe it was after many hours of being on (due to heat) but
 the last couple of times happened 5 mins after i power it on
  
 Has anyone had the same problem?
  
 Btw how do you open it?I removed the screws but there is no way i can make it come off


----------



## Aplle

pepo said:


> Received my M8 from Massdrop last week.
> I use it with my Squeezebox Touch (24/192) over coaxial, my CD player over optical and laptop over USB.
> The DAC is still burning in and improving. I am very happy with the sound and the DAC in general so far.
> On the Windows 7 laptop I am using JRiver software (MC 21).
> ...


 
 Try enabling "DSD bitstream in DoP format" in device settings. Oh, and set the Bitstreaming option to DSD.


----------



## Rob Allan

After much reading just took a punt on the M8, been using a Dragonfly Red (9016) mostly of late very much like the sound signature on the go and will continue to use it on the go with an Iphone/Sure535.  But wanted a standalone DAC for home use been using the DF Red at home but re-amping it not ideal.
  
 Should land tomorrow got the last one on UK amazon prime.
  
 Mixture Tidal & Foobar > M8 > Gustard H10 (Full V5 Bursons) > LCD 2f & 702 annies.
  
 I have no complaints with the Dragon Fly red but feel above is a cleaner solution.
  
 Fingers and toes crossed,
  
 Subbed..


----------



## Pepo

aplle said:


> Try enabling "DSD bitstream in DoP format" in device settings. Oh, and set the Bitstreaming option to DSD.


 
  
 Bitstreaming is already set to DSD.
  
 If I choose ASIO audio device I get the warning "Playback could not be started on the output "ASIO" using the format "DSD 2.8MHz 2 ch." 
  
 Enabling "DSD bitstream in DoP format" does not help, I get the same warning.
  
 I can play DSD fine with WASAPI audio device.


----------



## Rob Allan

A techie that wants less options..
  
 M8 landed and now many hours later pushing tha filter button...
  
 (****many maybe not audiophile many a days fiddle) hours later yes.... I am in a happy place.
  
 It's a funny old game was sitting pretty my oppo's had gone some LCD's had landed my beautiful missus made me a head band cushion to ease the heavy Audeze pain, I was in a place ish.. my red usb dragon fly red was flying high for the commute but my home rig lacked that something... 
  
 Home rig is good now, thanks to the M8, well... it is now that I have got passed repeating the first few seconds of favourite tracks and hitting the button to change the filter being over analytical  and being lost and dismayed at what I liked best, settled on slow for my setup..............
  
 LCD 2f getting some ooomph from a like minded china Gustard H10 with some not so china Burson amps drawing magic from this bit "special" SMSL magic that may dim down the line *china in the screen department but I care not it is putting me in a mucho happy place right now (understatement), now that I am not consonantly pressing the filter button...)
  
 LCD 2's slow is the method of the day, china eargasm's constant.
  
  
 The only thing wrong with this Schit is sadly it is not British made we wish it was, if it was the screen will probably shine bright years to come other than that its bloody ******* brilliant buy one. 
  
 #goodbuy
  
 It is a sabre without the glare everything is in its rightful place a happy one at that.
  

  
 EDIT on DSD content the button filter mashing did not get passed 50 sounded good to me left it be... PCM filter took some hard listening to find out what I liked best hence the *less/lazy option would of been preferred *happy without live in ignorant bliss was nothing short of an analitical mind **** to fine out where I needed to be.


----------



## Rob Allan

#drivel its good though major bang for buck.   #JDnCoke and good SMSL tunes for the weekend ahead.


----------



## Ashley2001

Anyone have the latest usb drivers now that the SMSL site is down?.


----------



## Pepo

Here you go: http://www.bf42tr.com/files/M8_Driver.zip


----------



## Claude Barreto

Hey, thanks for the link! I just purchased this item on Amazon and realized there is no support or a website for the company anymore. What is the issue, does anyone know? Also, do you happen to have the latest firmware for this device? Is it included in the driver package?


----------



## Pepo

Yes, unfortunately both SMSL websites I know of (smslaudio.com and smsl-audio.com) are down.
 Having bought the DAC just a month ago I assume it has the latest firmware. 
 No firmware is included in the driver package.


----------



## Nelska

Hello,

 Maybe this SMSL contact is still valid ?  Hope it's can help ...

https://smsl.en.alibaba.com/contactinfo.html


----------



## Ustas

So... does it mean SMSL is a deceased company now? Their China website smsl-china.com is also down. 
That would be very unfortunate since M8 is an excellent DAC rivaling in performance DACs many times its price.... I use it both with an additional P1 power supply and with 9V rechargeable battery.


----------



## fritobugger

ustas said:


> So... does it mean SMSL is a deceased company now? Their China website smsl-china.com is also down.
> That would be very unfortunate since M8 is an excellent DAC rivaling in performance DACs many times its price.... I use it both with an additional P1 power supply and with 9V rechargeable battery.




Their website has been flaky over the last few years. Give it a couple of days or weeks and try again.


----------



## casperghst42

I just got my SMSL M8, and have a "small" problem. I want to use my Airport Express for Airplay, and have connected it to the M8 with a fiber. But there are drop out's every 2-3 seconds. 
  
 Now if I connect the Airport Express to my surround receiver using the same fiber, and same network connection there are no drop out's.
  
 Also using USB (Macbook Air ==> M8) does not generate any drop out's.
  
 Is this a "know" problem with the M8 ?
  
 Cheers,
 Casper


----------



## Triplefun

casperghst42 said:


> I just got my SMSL M8, and have a "small" problem. I want to use my Airport Express for Airplay, and have connected it to the M8 with a fiber. But there are drop out's every 2-3 seconds.
> 
> Now if I connect the Airport Express to my surround receiver using the same fiber, and same network connection there are no drop out's.
> 
> ...


 
 Probably something to do with excessive jitter and the smsl m8 automatic jitter control switch. Search for how to reduce jitter from the airport.


----------



## casperghst42

triplefun said:


> Probably something to do with excessive jitter and the smsl m8 automatic jitter control switch. Search for how to reduce jitter from the airport.


 

 Triplefun,
  
 Thanks, and after a couple of hours hunting I found a post on apples support forum (https://discussions.apple.com/message/28342422#message28342422) mentioning that Apple Airport Express produces jitter with all firmwares after 7.6.1 ... I just downgraded the firmware on my oldest airport express, and no longer any dropouts.
  
 I'm going to keep the M8 until further notice, thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction.
  
 p.s. I do not know how to downgrade the firmware on the new square model, but with the older versions it's easy just start Airport Utility, keep option down while clicking on the version number (when clicking on the device) and select 7.6.1, and let it reboot.
  
 Casper


----------



## chongky

The English website is up again: http://www.smsl-audio.com/index.php?langid=en, but for some reason Google has it blacklisted.
  
 Latest driver --> Service --> M8 --> download


----------



## Ustas

I also tried to open their page a couple days back and Firefox blocked it as a potential malware installing website. 
I know that some malicious software may be installed alongside the legitimate drivers when a website is infected like it was the case recently with Bluetooth car-code readers. Probably that's why SMSL domains were down so they could clean-up their pages? Go figure....


----------



## Aradea

The M8 has come up again at Massdrop. Should I get this or the new modi multibit on SQ alone?


----------



## lenroot77

While I don't have the modi mb, I do have the Bimby. I have been following the new modi thread and people are drawing strong comparisons between the two.

Having had the m8 in the past I would hop on the modi mb fore sure. The M8 is a nice sounding, but it has that digital edge too it and the MB/ R2R DAC's just sound much more natural and smooth. To my ears anyhow.


----------



## Ustas

Have you tried SMSL M8 with P1 linear power supply? it removes that digital edge for me. Original ps is OK but P1 lifts M8 to another level. 
I also use rechargeable 9V battery with same excellent results I did not personally compare Modi Mb with M8 though.

Here is the comprehensive review of M8 DAC with and without P1: SMSL M8, champion des mini DAC


----------



## lenroot77

ustas said:


> Have you tried SMSL M8 with P1 linear power supply? it removes that digital edge for me. Original ps is OK but P1 lifts M8 to another level.
> I also use rechargeable 9V battery with same excellent results I did not personally compare Modi Mb with M8 though.
> 
> Here is the comprehensive review of M8 DAC with and without P1: SMSL M8, champion des mini DAC




I did not have the linear power supply. So I can't comment on that.


----------



## beowulf

Anyone using this stack with the Sennheiser HD800/HD800S?
  
SMSL M8 USB DAC + VMV VA2 headphone amp + linear power P1
  
 I saw really good reviews of the DAC, but not so sure about the amp and the power source.
 Also, buying from a chinese company that seems to be very poor on support leaves me slightly nervous.
 (It's around 500 EUR for the 3 components)


----------



## Sdmark

ustas said:


> Have you tried SMSL M8 with P1 linear power supply? it removes that digital edge for me. Original ps is OK but P1 lifts M8 to another level.
> I also use rechargeable 9V battery with same excellent results I did not personally compare Modi Mb with M8 though.
> 
> Here is the comprehensive review of M8 DAC with and without P1: SMSL M8, champion des mini DAC




I am in on the M8 drop going on now at Massdrop and am also getting a TeraDak U9VA linear power supply to power it with. Hoping to get similar results as with a P1.


----------



## beowulf

I ended up buying the M8+VA2+P1 stack (+RCA cables). Ended up at 458 EUR ($517) including DHL shipping from China. Should get it in about a week or so.
  
 Lets see what comes out of it. Wasn't really sure about getting the P1 Linear PSU or not... that added 100 to the total cost and it might be unecessary. I guess I'll do a comparison with it and without to see if it was a waste.
  
 Size is just about right to stack next to my desktop/monitor. I don't expect this combo to be too bad, but am not very confident regarding long-term reliability. And when these Aliexpress items die,they usually end up in the trash even if the "warranty" is valid.
  
 Edit: @Ustas how are you using that 9V battery with this setup? Haven't seen that P1 comparison before, thanks.


----------



## bnsb

P1 Linear Power Supply is worth every penny you paid, IMHO.


----------



## Ustas

beowulf said:


> @Ustas
> how are you using that 9V battery with this setup? Haven't seen that P1 comparison before, thanks.




I bought a rechargeable 20000mAh 5V/9V/12V USB power bank from Amazon and use 9V output out to SMSL M8. The sound is comparable with P1 LPS and it's good for those cases where no power outlet nearby, also serves as a powerbank for all my phones, tablets, etc. Though I prefer to use P1 with M8 at home as I feel the battery electronics may add some noise... 

For those interested in sound comparison with and without P1 LPS I'll repeat a link to review from Culture HD magazine: http://culturehd.com/hifi/smsl-m8-le-champion-des-mini-dac_9429 
use Google Translate if you don't read French.


----------



## beowulf

Just got the stack yesterday, shipping was surprisingly fast, which made me happy until I noticed the added VAT tax bill.
  
 Anyway, installed it and did a couple of hours of testing yesterday. I'll write a mini-review soon.


----------



## DaveLT

I just got a m8 and within hours the front display stopped showing anything. It's operating, yes, there's sound but I have no idea if it's in USB, or optical or coax and neither do I know about the filter settings..
  
 Tried to hold it down to disable standby but it's not doing anything.


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> I just got a m8 and within hours the front display stopped showing anything. It's operating, yes, there's sound but I have no idea if it's in USB, or optical or coax and neither do I know about the filter settings..
> 
> Tried to hold it down to disable standby but it's not doing anything.


 

 That's not good. Seems to be a neat little OLED panel. I recall hearing people talking about turning off the unit while not in use to avoid OLED burn-in, but don't recall failures.
 Have you reached out to SMSL about it?


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> That's not good. Seems to be a neat little OLED panel. I recall hearing people talking about turning off the unit while not in use to avoid OLED burn-in, but don't recall failures.
> Have you reached out to SMSL about it?


 
 I emailed them earlier today. The distributor I spoke to actually told me he had the same problem with this unit (I borrowed it from him) and he got the screen back on apparently some buttons must be pushed or something but he forgot as the stowed it away for a few months now/


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> I emailed them earlier today. The distributor I spoke to actually told me he had the same problem with this unit (I borrowed it from him) and he got the screen back on apparently some buttons must be pushed or something but he forgot as the stowed it away for a few months now/


 
  
 I see. Sound as if it's a firmware issue and they gave him some keypress combo do perform some sort of reset. Just a theory.
 I've had mine for two days but didn't have time to use it more than a couple of hours. I don't recall the firmware version, but it was shipped from SMSL last week, so I'd expect it to be recent.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> I see. Sound as if it's a firmware issue and they gave him some keypress combo do perform some sort of reset. Just a theory.
> I've had mine for two days but didn't have time to use it more than a couple of hours. I don't recall the firmware version, but it was shipped from SMSL last week, so I'd expect it to be recent.


 
 Apparently v6.60 is the latest firmware and despite this unit being over an year old it's still 6.60


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> Apparently v6.60 is the latest firmware and despite this unit being over an year old it's still 6.60


 
  
 Mine has that version too.


----------



## beowulf

katji said:


> How did you attach it? i'm wondering about the usual thermal paste but i guess it's not applicable here.
> 
> hehheh
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ahah wish I had seen this before.
 The P1 is extremely hot. I'm not happy with the design. It is needing ventilation. It is so hot it really warms up the DAC and Amp if they're on top of it.


----------



## Katji

i think all the pics i've seen have the P1 on top.
 i spent an hour or so - at the time of that post - looking through pages of CPU heatsinks on ebay but i found nothing suitable, nothing like that one. And i couldn't get the search string right to exclude all the generic electronic shops heatsinks.
 it seems like ventilation holes would help, but i'm not sure, and it would wipe out the resale value.


----------



## beowulf

katji said:


> i think all the pics i've seen have the P1 on top.
> i spent an hour or so - at the time of that post - looking through pages of CPU heatsinks on ebay but i found nothing suitable, nothing like that one. And i couldn't get the search string right to exclude all the generic electronic shops heatsinks.
> it seems like ventilation holes would help, but i'm not sure, and it would wipe out the resale value.


 
  
 Indeed, heat sinks and changing the case isn't practical.
 I had everything stacked as in the SMSL shots but it is very hot here today (30C/87F indoors no AC) and the stack got really hot, as in being difficult to keep your hands on top of the P1.
  
 I put them side by side now, P1 on its own and M8+VA2 stacked next to it. That improved it a lot, the P1 is still hot but I'd say it's in a hot-but-still-acceptable temp for a PSU now.
 The M8 DAC also gets hot, slightly more than the VA2, but you can't put the amp on bottom due to the design of the volume knob.
 It's a cute little system but they could have improved heat dissipation a bit, adding some venting grid and maybe some heatsink-like pattern.


----------



## fritobugger

katji said:


> i think all the pics i've seen have the P1 on top.
> 
> i spent an hour or so - at the time of that post - looking through pages of CPU heatsinks on ebay but i found nothing suitable, nothing like that one. And i couldn't get the search string right to exclude all the generic electronic shops heatsinks.
> 
> it seems like ventilation holes would help, but i'm not sure, and it would wipe out the resale value.




I put the P1 on top in my set up. No problem so far.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> Ahah wish I had seen this before.
> The P1 is extremely hot. I'm not happy with the design. It is needing ventilation. It is so hot it really warms up the DAC and Amp if they're on top of it.


 
 Expect that from aluminum. the question is ... how hot is it?
  
 You could thermally glue (using thermal glue) a cpu heatsink (really any can do) above the p1 but aluminum is a good conductor of heat no matter where it is.


----------



## Katji

Originally Posted by *beowulf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> Indeed, heat sinks and changing the case isn't practical. I had everything stacked as in the SMSL shots but it is very hot here today (30C/87F indoors no AC) and the stack got really hot, as in being difficult to keep your hands on top of the P1.
> 
> I put them side by side now, P1 on its own and M8+VA2 stacked next to it. That improved it a lot, the P1 is still hot but I'd say it's in a hot-but-still-acceptable temp for a PSU now.
> The M8 DAC also gets hot, slightly more than the VA2, but you can't put the amp on bottom due to the design of the volume knob.
> It's a cute little system but they could have improved heat dissipation a bit, adding some venting grid and maybe some heatsink-like pattern.


 






 ja i see you are having summer this year, i've noticed comments about the weather at Dekmantel festival.
 i think the designer/s probably know about the heat but the main thing was to make it small, same size as the other components. But even normal/standard size amps have ventilation slots on top.
  


fritobugger said:


> I put the P1 on top in my set up. No problem so far.


 
 But you have aircon? Good to hear though, because i will soon have average 30 degrees...and no aircon.

 Any CPU heatsink...the last time i saw one was > 10 years ago and pics on ebay seemed to be showing the complete CPU package. i must try again.


----------



## fritobugger

katji said:


> ja i see you are having summer this year, i've noticed comments about the weather at Dekmantel festival.
> 
> i think the designer/s probably know about the heat but the main thing was to make it small, same size as the other components. But even normal/standard size amps have ventilation slots on top.
> 
> ...




I do have Aircon since it is 35+C most of the year here. It get used some days without Aircon when the temp is under 30.


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> Expect that from aluminum. the question is ... how hot is it?
> 
> You could thermally glue (using thermal glue) a cpu heatsink (really any can do) above the p1 but aluminum is a good conductor of heat no matter where it is.


 
  
 Was ridiculously hot. I don't have an infra thermometer, so it's guesstimating. But if you put your hand on it it's right at the limit of tolerable.
  
 Putting it on its own with nothing on top helped a lot, I think it is enough. Something easy that might also improve it is replacing the small rubber with with 4 bigger ones raising the P1 one centimeter or so. Extra airflow under the chassis will probably cool it down even more.
  

  


katji said:


> ja i see you are having summer this year, i've noticed comments about the weather at Dekmantel festival.
> i think the designer/s probably know about the heat but the main thing was to make it small, same size as the other components. But even normal/standard size amps have ventilation slots on top.
> 
> But you have aircon? Good to hear though, because i will soon have average 30 degrees...and no aircon.
> ...


 
  
  
 Yeah, the weather here is totally randomized. You get 4 seasons in a day and all sorts of weirdness. I gave up trying to understand it.
 No airco in this house, I had it before in a different country but here it's usually not necessary, except it seems, this week.
  
 A CPU heatsink would help but it looks pretty bad if installed outside the case. Installing inside won't do much without some venting. They could have kept the case small and compact while still adding a few venting grills.
  


fritobugger said:


> I put the P1 on top in my set up. No problem so far.


 
  
 I tried that and it dissipates better, but was still warming up the rest. I have them side by side now, it helped a lot. If the P1 had a design with a heatsink pattern on the outside and/or venting, it would be quite fresh.
  
 Where do you have your amp then? I find it difficult to rotate the volume if there's a unit on top.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> Was ridiculously hot. I don't have an infra thermometer, so it's guesstimating. But if you put your hand on it it's right at the limit of tolerable.
> 
> Putting it on its own with nothing on top helped a lot, I think it is enough. Something easy that might also improve it is replacing the small rubber with with 4 bigger ones raising the P1 one centimeter or so. Extra airflow under the chassis will probably cool it down even more.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds more like 40 odd degrees celsius. Which is warm to electronics but certainly hot to us but it's fine.

 The heatsinks are on the top of the chassis, the chassis helps dissipate the heat as it's aluminium so it's alright for it to get warm.
 Putting feets on it won't make much of a difference and venting slots won't really make any difference as the key heat dissipator here and it's pretty cramped as well.
 It should have had external fins but again, it would look like ass.


----------



## fritobugger

beowulf said:


> Yeah, the weather here is totally randomized. You get 4 seasons in a day and all sorts of weirdness. I gave up trying to understand it.
> No airco in this house, I had it before in a different country but here it's usually not necessary, except it seems, this week.
> 
> A CPU heatsink would help but it looks pretty bad if installed outside the case. Installing inside won't do much without some venting. They could have kept the case small and compact while still adding a few venting grills.
> ...




My apologies, I only use the M8 and the P1. I have Gustard H10 amp sitting next to them.


----------



## muscleking

Hi guys
 after reading this thread I bought the m8 triple stack. it's going to be for office use.
  
 I bought in my LD MKIII to work and run it on beyerdynamic dt1350 through note 4 with no wolfson dac version and my coworker said " it sounds like any other headphone" so I quickly researched and came up with this m8 dac being best value for money with the high end chip which is also implemented properly.
  
 how does the combination work with vacuum tube amp like the LD MKIII? I will find out soon lol but just wondering anyone has this combination?
  
 will be listening on T1.2, DT1350 and stax 4170.
  
 I had my sonar stx for 4 years now and so far haven't heard any dac that's better. including o2+odac. which sounds similar but to me with a reduced soundstage so end up selling that and kept the stx since.
  
 I normally would read a lot more before buying something but this system sounds like so much tweaking and things to do with it so that will keep me busy for a while. the number of units sold on ebay and aliexpress are quite high for this m8 unit. that helped me make my decision a bit easier.
  
 seller will send me the 110v version. I think back then was only 240v for the P1 power supply. I have no clue why power supply can make dac sounds better I would think it's amp but I took some other engineering instead of electrical which I wanted before lol so I don't know too much about electronics at higher level.
  
 I also read this thing works with note 4 with OTG cable. some say works some say don't and what was like 2015. so I think should be all sorted out by now.
  
 it would be nice that the first page be modified into like a main information page telling you all the tricks and what to watch out for, etc. like the little dot tube rolling guide and some those Korean overclockable 1440p monitors. but 50 something pages only is not too much to go through in a few hours.
  
 hope I made right choice on this one. so far my biggest jump is from onboard to xonar stx. headphones I started full size with AD700, then got the sony ma900, then stax 4170 and now T1. stax 4170 after 2 years holds it's own rank in my audio gear. but i only buy more because i want to see what other stuff sounds like. typical symptoms of us guys buying stuff. lol.


----------



## muscleking

oh also on the xonar stx, while listening to 24 192k files and set the hardware to downsample to 16bit and all other frenquencies i can't hear any difference at all. i don't think my ear is bad. compare the non wolfson note 4 sound vs xonar stx yeah huge difference. like more energy in the sound and everything. details can be heard on both but no fun listening straight through the note 4 at work. put me to sleep. that's why need something better. after all i can listen to music for the whole 7.5 hours while sitting here. lots of things to burn in after lol. my t1.2 is not burnt in yet. i guess i am trying to find something better than the stax 4170 system in the dynamic world. not so easy. at this level there are no good and bad for anything over 1000 bucks or 2000 bucks with amp and dac. that's all i can say. for a different experience get a speaker like audioengine a5+. which i totally regret selling. but renting now so no big speakers for a while : (


----------



## muscleking

hi guys
  
 one question, does it make a sound difference if I connect to the m8 stack from my note 4 phone headphone port or use OGT from the bottom?
  
 mine is not here yet. but yeah I got it from pericross ebay seller too. easy to work with.


----------



## DaveLT

muscleking said:


> hi guys
> 
> one question, does it make a sound difference if I connect to the m8 stack from my note 4 phone headphone port or use OGT from the bottom?
> 
> mine is not here yet. but yeah I got it from pericross ebay seller too. easy to work with.


 
 It's a DAC ... if you're using it as a DAC (there's only one way really) it's the OTG you're gonna use.


----------



## muscleking

i have an OTG cable from ebay. but was for note 3. also another one for s3. they are in another city right now. so what's the best cable to connect to the m8? cable quality for this OTG matters? i'll get something around 20 bucks if that's what it takes. any recommendations? thank you.
  
 can little dot mk3 connect as preamp to this dac? or do i need to remove the vmv va2 amp? says something about DC amp do not connect, like the stax amps.


----------



## tonKopf

ustas said:


> I bought a rechargeable 20000mAh 5V/9V/12V USB power bank from Amazon and use 9V output out to SMSL M8. The sound is comparable with P1 LPS


 
 Hey man...
 Would you care to post the actual Amazon link (otherwise could you send me a PM)? Did you have to purchase a DC plug separately to go between the USB power bank the M8? Does the sound really differ between the P1 LPS?
  
 Many thanks!
  
 Cheers


----------



## Ustas

tonkopf said:


> Hey man...
> Would you care to post the actual Amazon link (otherwise could you send me a PM)? Did you have to purchase a DC plug separately to go between the USB power bank the M8? Does the sound really differ between the P1 LPS?




Sure, mate. I don't think it's against Head-Fi policies to post Amazon links - I bought this one. I use it with my own USB A to 9V barrel cable scavenged from old powered mini speakers... guess you can buy a power cable like this from Monoprice or Amazon. 

As to the sound I think P1 sounds different in a way the sound has more solid base and speed, but it's all very subjective. In any case both P1 and 9V powerbank made great improvements to M8 sound with much better and natural presentation removing that "digitites" introduced by original switching power supply. 

For more on this see posts on page 8 of this thread beginning from my conversation with chongky and following:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/743990/new-m8-dac-from-smsl-9018-xmos/105#post_11577534


----------



## tonKopf

ustas said:


> Sure, mate. I don't think it's against Head-Fi policies to post Amazon links - I bought this one. I use it with my own USB A to 9V barrel cable scavenged from old powered mini speakers... guess you can buy a power cable like this from Monoprice or Amazon.
> 
> As to the sound I think P1 sounds different in a way the sound has more solid base and speed, but it's all very subjective. In any case both P1 and 9V powerbank made great improvements to M8 sound with much better and natural presentation removing that "digitites" introduced by original switching power supply.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great, thanks! I've already owned the SMSL 8 for a year+ and finally decided to upgrade the power source. The SMSL P1 is too expensive for my taste. I originally sourced a no-brand-name LPS on eBay from China. Price was Ok, but I was concerned there wouldn't be any (or not much) improvement. With a battery pack and Amazon I can return it easily, so your reference helps me to source one with the same specs or just get the same.
 I think my question about the sound was phrased incorrectly. Is the sound signature about the same between the P1 and battery pack, but the P1 is a bit better; or is it better in either case, but different? Does that make sense?
  
 Cheers


----------



## Ustas

tonkopf said:


> Is the sound signature about the same between the P1 and battery pack, but the P1 is a bit better; or is it better in either case, but different? Does that make sense?




They both sound better than original ps but in a different manner. The sound signature is the same to my ears and it determined mostly by M8 DAC itself in a much greater sense than by any power supply. 
I'd put it this way: P1 sounds bolder with greater dynamic and slightly improved soundstage compared to the battery pack, but the difference is not that dramatic though. I attribute this sound to a quicker on-demand power P1 provides thanks to its power transformer and reserve capacitors, also I feel the electronic circuit that controls powerbank output may interfere introducing some noise. The main advantage of P1 to me is that it does not require any maintenance, always on-duty and set and forget kind of thing. 
It would be interesting to see if somebody tests the outputs of both devices with oscilloscope.


----------



## tonKopf

ustas said:


> I'd put it this way: P1 sounds bolder with greater dynamic and slightly improved soundstage compared to the battery pack, but the difference is not that dramatic though.


 
  
 That's what I was looking for... thanks.
 After some extended research I may get this portable charger instead (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B645YYK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A142BGUZC6UH73). Slightly more expensive, but I like the form factor and design better.
 ... And just for the heck of it, I purchased a linear wall adapter from Jameco (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?search_type=jamecoall&catalogId=10001&freeText=2227428&langId=-1&productId=2227428&storeId=10001&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDrillDownView).
 BTW, I use the M8 with my Ember Project and depending on the tube the sound can be what some have described as "harsh" or "digital". But it really depends on the tube used.
 When I use the M8 with my PASS ACA there is no harshness whatsoever.


----------



## DaveLT

muscleking said:


> i have an OTG cable from ebay. but was for note 3. also another one for s3. they are in another city right now. so what's the best cable to connect to the m8? cable quality for this OTG matters? i'll get something around 20 bucks if that's what it takes. any recommendations? thank you.
> 
> can little dot mk3 connect as preamp to this dac? or do i need to remove the vmv va2 amp? says something about DC amp do not connect, like the stax amps.



Cables don't matter unless its total crap. I used one lying around and its completely fine


tonkopf said:


> That's what I was looking for... thanks.
> After some extended research I may get this portable charger instead (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B645YYK/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A142BGUZC6UH73). Slightly more expensive, but I like the form factor and design better.
> ... And just for the heck of it, I purchased a linear wall adapter from Jameco (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?search_type=jamecoall&catalogId=10001&freeText=2227428&langId=-1&productId=2227428&storeId=10001&ddkey=http:StoreCatalogDrillDownView).
> BTW, I use the M8 with my Ember Project and depending on the tube the sound can be what some have described as "harsh" or "digital". But it really depends on the tube used.
> When I use the M8 with my PASS ACA there is no harshness whatsoever.



Depends on which filter you're using as well. The fast filter sounds harsh as they say so try using slow


----------



## tonKopf

davelt said:


> Depends on which filter you're using as well. The fast filter sounds harsh as they say so try using slow


 
  
 That's absolutely correct. The filter settings do matter. That being said the 'Fast' is my favorite besides it's 'harshness' which I only encounter with certain tubes. On the PASS ACA side there's no harshness whatsoever with 'Fast'. So I think it does depend on ones setup apart from just the filter settings.
  
 Cheers


----------



## beowulf

tonkopf said:


> Great, thanks! I've already owned the SMSL 8 for a year+ and finally decided to upgrade the power source. The SMSL P1 is too expensive for my taste.


 
  
 It can power two devices however (Selectable 6,9,12v) and external build quality/look is quite decent.
 I haven't had time to compare the VA2+M8 with the P1 vs wall warts yet. The P1 is indeed expensive, so I'd like to hear if it was a waste or not. Only have the ears to test tho, no oscilloscope.
  
 I'm starting to wonder if I made a noobish mistake buying the M8+VA2+P1 stack. It sounds fine, but I totally underestimated how much I would miss a remote control. Sometimes I want to use this setup while I'm on a couch far away and would be nice to be able to control volume at least. Maybe I'll get a cable extension with volume control, but many of those really suck.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> It can power two devices however (Selectable 6,9,12v) and external build quality/look is quite decent.
> I haven't had time to compare the VA2+M8 with the P1 vs wall warts yet. The P1 is indeed expensive, so I'd like to hear if it was a waste or not. Only have the ears to test tho, no oscilloscope.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if I made a noobish mistake buying the M8+VA2+P1 stack. It sounds fine, but I totally underestimated how much I would miss a remote control. Sometimes I want to use this setup while I'm on a couch far away and would be nice to be able to control volume at least. Maybe I'll get a cable extension with volume control, but many of those really suck.


 
 I do know that any noise you can get rid of is good. Any noise can be modulated into weird artifacts.
  
 But the best way to examine is perhaps to use a digital scope as the noise will be modulated into weird patterns that perhaps can only be seen on a digital scope, which I don't have... Only an analog scope.
  
 However, one can pick an alternative to the P1 from china, those sort of yanno, "diy-d" LPSs. The P1 is hardly groundbreaking in fact it's a bit meh design wise but all LPS can deliver almost zero noise so if that's one thing for it then ok.
  
 Don't need to spend bucketloads of money on expensive LPSs that claim all sorts of fairy magic


----------



## tonKopf

beowulf said:


> It can power two devices however (Selectable 6,9,12v) and external build quality/look is quite decent.
> I haven't had time to compare the VA2+M8 with the P1 vs wall warts yet. The P1 is indeed expensive, so I'd like to hear if it was a waste or not. Only have the ears to test tho, no oscilloscope.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if I made a noobish mistake buying the M8+VA2+P1 stack. It sounds fine, but I totally underestimated how much I would miss a remote control. Sometimes I want to use this setup while I'm on a couch far away and would be nice to be able to control volume at least. Maybe I'll get a cable extension with volume control, but many of those really suck.


 
  
 From my past limited experience with LPS and / or battery power I can say that they tend to make a noticeable difference. To quantify said "noticeable difference" is pointless, if not impossible, because it's subjective. The worth of it to a person is usually determined by ones wallet size.
 I don't mind spending what to me is a couple of bucks; but I refuse to spend hundreds of dollars, or 200+ % on an overpriced item thats technical specifications should conform to industry and scientific standards and are measurable just to maybe obtain some questionable audio-magical result and maybe gain a 5% overall improvement in performance, i.e. audio cables are a good example.
 I think your investment in a P1 with your setup makes perfect sense, because you require multiple power sources, so it's more like a two-for-one deal. In my case I wouldn't benefit. I will report back on my experience with the portable charger. I will compare it against the switched and linear wall adapter.
 Here's a thought regarding volume control. You may switch to a digital source, i.e. Raspberry etc., and install i.e. Volumio. I use a laptop with Volumio. The volume of the M8 can be controlled via Volumio. Volumio can be controlled via a web browser on a laptop, tablet, phone, etc.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Shredder11

My only small criticism of my SMSL M8 is the volume dial control, which is very noisy when adjusted, e.g. imparts scratchy noise into the audio output signal.  I wonder if I could safely lubricate this with a suitable product?


----------



## DaveLT

shredder11 said:


> My only small criticism of my SMSL M8 is the volume dial control, which is very noisy when adjusted, e.g. imparts scratchy noise into the audio output signal.  I wonder if I could safely lubricate this with a suitable product?


 
 SMSL M8 does not have an volume dial at all... Are you sure you're talking about the right product?


----------



## Shredder11

Sorry I had a brain fart moment! I actually meant the SMSL VA2 headphone amp sat on top of my M8 DAC.


----------



## beowulf

I find the volume control on the VA2 totally solid and smooth. There's no wobble, no imprecision and definitely never heard any noise while adjusting. For how long have you had it? Had that since the beginning? Maybe there is something faulty on your unit?
 I'm using the P1 power supply, but that shouldn't make any difference there.


----------



## Triplefun

shredder11 said:


> My only small criticism of my SMSL M8 is the volume dial control, which is very noisy when adjusted, e.g. imparts scratchy noise into the audio output signal.  I wonder if I could safely lubricate this with a suitable product?


 
 Assuming the va2 has an analogue volume control then sounds like you have a dirty control. With the unit off try increasing and decreasing the volume several times to  dislodge any 'dirt'.


----------



## Shredder11

My VA2 volume control has been stiff and noisy from day one when it was brand new.  It works fine otherwise, e.g. accurate and does not wobble.  I am using the VA2 and my M8 DAC with the P1 linear PSU with W6 braided cables.
  
 *** EDIT:   I just spent a minute or two working the volume control back and forth in a scrubbing motion, and then full turns back and forth and it now feels a lot smoother.  The scratchiness and noise has all gone now.  I think I did try a tiny bit to do this when it was new, but obviously I needed to be more vigorous!


----------



## beowulf

tonkopf said:


> Here's a thought regarding volume control. You may switch to a digital source, i.e. Raspberry etc., and install i.e. Volumio. I use a laptop with Volumio. The volume of the M8 can be controlled via Volumio. Volumio can be controlled via a web browser on a laptop, tablet, phone, etc.


 
  
 Thanks for the Volumio tip. I had never heard of it. Will look into it since remote volume control would be really handy.
 I did some more listening this weekend and am happy with the VA2/M8 set, although this impression is relative, since I don't really have a high quality amp to compare. But I don't think it is limiting the HD 800 S.


----------



## muscleking

received the whole m8 stack with the braided rca cable yesterday. customs are smarter and charged me 40 bucks for duty. but all good. everything works. installed the v2.26 driver from xmos website.

initial listen is good. i think it's more clean sounding and live than the xonar stx. will see after 20 hour burn in as people says it will change a bit. very well made and the look is amazing. 

connected my little dot mk3 and reduced the computer noise a bit. oh no noise at all using usb with the va2 amp and P1 power supply. it comes with 2 shields somehow placed in the amplifier box so i think since the usb cable is grey i put that on the usb cable on each end. may look into optical later. 

received the yugo 6hm5 tubes yesterday but one was bad. so couldn't test it properly. 

i got the whole weekend to listen to this thing. the xonar is giving me some app problem lately need to uninstall and reinstall software to work. so this come in good time. will report back after a while. 

need to look into the whole setting up foobar and stuff. not sure what to set in windows sound it only let you select one rate. like 32bit 192khz. i hope the thing can adjust automatically based on source. that would be nice. i got all kind of flac and now some dsd files. fingers crossed how long it last. but love touching this thing. the aluminum finish is really smooth. lol. 

i think it's more enjoyable vs the xonar stx. not like night and day difference yet. but i only had 10 minutes on it.

also one more question is the P1 power supply comes with a super short 2 pin power cord with no ground. is it ok to hook up a 3 pin with ground cable? i'll play around a bit more to see if the mk3 noise can be eliminated.

i looked at some pictures of the product realized the two magnetic shielding goes on top of the 9v and 12v power supply cable not the USB. 

so i read the USB cable provided is no good? i am starting to get into the whole cable thing now.


----------



## fritobugger

muscleking said:


> received the whole m8 stack with the braided rca cable yesterday. customs are smarter and charged me 40 bucks for duty. but all good. everything works. installed the v2.26 driver from xmos website.
> 
> initial listen is good. i think it's more clean sounding and live than the xonar stx. will see after 20 hour burn in as people says it will change a bit. very well made and the look is amazing.
> 
> ...




I bought a cheap but very heavy duty three pin grounded power cable from Monoprice. I am happier with this.


----------



## beowulf

muscleking said:


> i looked at some pictures of the product realized the two magnetic shielding goes on top of the 9v and 12v power supply cable not the USB.
> 
> so i read the USB cable provided is no good? i am starting to get into the whole cable thing now.


 
  
 I didn't notice any issues with the provided cable. Overall the stack is very clean, totally flat silence even with IEMs being driven from the high impedance jack.
  
 The P1 heat was the only issue I had, but it got solved by putting them side-by-side instead of stacked.
 I suspect the lack of a conventional remote control will keep annoying me tho, so I might end up selling my stack.


----------



## DjBobby

What is the amperage of the original M8 wall wart?


----------



## DaveLT

djbobby said:


> What is the amperage of the original M8 wall wart?


 
 1.3A but mine isn't on the wall, it's got a wire coming off it


----------



## DjBobby

Thanks a lot. Yeah, I meant wired stack power supply.
 Strange, because P1 delivers, according to the specs, only 0,6A on 9V. Wondering would it affect the sound.


----------



## DaveLT

djbobby said:


> Thanks a lot. Yeah, I meant wired stack power supply.
> Strange, because P1 delivers, according to the specs, only 0,6A on 9V. Wondering would it affect the sound.


 
 It's about overkilling on SMPS because at full power they are substantially noisier.
  
 If it really does use 1.3A it will have to have a big heatsink attached to the chips ...


----------



## Sdmark

I just received my M8 from the latest Massdrop and although it hasn't run in at all, I think it sounds very good compared to the AQ Dragonfly that I was using from an iPhone. I am currently using the Slow filter which according to the manual, adds a bit to the high end but I'll listen to them all once it's burned in some.

Really sounds nice with 192khz files but I need to get a good pair of analog RCA cables between the DAC and my Gustard H10 amp and will probably look at some better USB cables too.


----------



## DaveLT

sdmark said:


> I just received my M8 from the latest Massdrop and although it hasn't run in at all, I think it sounds very good compared to the AQ Dragonfly that I was using from an iPhone. I am currently using the Slow filter which according to the manual, adds a bit to the high end but I'll listen to them all once it's burned in some.
> 
> Really sounds nice with 192khz files but I need to get a good pair of analog RCA cables between the DAC and my Gustard H10 amp and will probably look at some better USB cables too.


 
 You don't need to go overkill on the RCA cables. A decent pair will do but don't spend any more than 10$.
  
 And ...unless you live in a very very electrically noisy area (Like massive RF and EMI) all you need is a shielded usb cable with chokes on both ends. That's it.


----------



## Sdmark

I hear what you're saying but I just ordered a 1m Mogami pr. for $95. I have several more expensive cables in storage but I don't feel like driving 45 minutes each way to dig for them.

Mogami is the cable you're most likely to find in recording studios and are a favorite of many sound engineers. A great cable without breaking the bank.

But - this thread is not about cables. Sorry for going OT.


----------



## Triplefun

FYI, Massdrop have the M8 on offer for US$175
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-m8
  
 Deal closes in 7 days


----------



## beowulf

I'm sure this was already posted, but it was new to me, so maybe I'll leave it here to newcomers...
 http://www.qobuz.com/nl-nl/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528
  
 Some interesting tech details regarding the M8 components (and the P1 power supply). The implementation seems quite neat.


----------



## muscleking

I had the m8 for 2 weeks now. I can safely say it's much more "musical" than the odac+o2. really for not much more money and significantly better built, better tech and better looking. I will get another one later to replace home set up. the xonar stx is a bit fatigue compared to this. actually quite fatiguing. but maybe because I been messing around with tube amp. I found my ultimate source now with this set up. I see you ordered a Z1R. can you review the sound isolation? I may get one one day for office use if it doesn't leak sound and sound like 3000 bucks headphone. wish they make some more closed electrostatic headphones. I didn't use the VA2 much. so I can't comment on that. I prefer the little dot more. I filled my office desk with so much gadgets lol.
  
 you can get the triple stack from SMSL for 400 USD shipped on ebay pericross. for 275 for just m8 and P1 is worth it. then get some other amplifier.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> I'm sure this was already posted, but it was new to me, so maybe I'll leave it here to newcomers...
> http://www.qobuz.com/nl-nl/info/hi-res-guide/s-m-s-l-m8-reach-up-to-32-bit-384177528
> 
> Some interesting tech details regarding the M8 components (and the P1 power supply). The implementation seems quite neat.


 
 I didn't see any info on the P1 power supply and the tech details are basically just the parts however.


----------



## WannaBeOCer

Windows 10 will finally have built in drivers for Audio USB 2.0 devices! 

http://venturebeat.com/2016/09/21/microsoft-releases-new-windows-10-preview-with-maps-improvements-and-usb-audio-2-0-support/

Works with my SMSL M8, of course many features are missing compared to the XMOs v3.2.0 driver


----------



## bharris

Just picked up an M8 and, WOW, I wasn't expecting the degree of improvement that it would offer over my Dragonfly 1.2. More impressions to come but I'm so impressed by the increased clarity, tightening of the bass, separation, layering... pretty much everything without sacrificing warmth to any significant degree. An eye-opener, for sure. 
  
  
 One issue, so far: I've had about 3-4 "hiccups"- just a total signal interruption that lasts for a split second and then playback resumes?
 Does this sound familiar to anyone? Files are coming via USB from a Dell Mini 10V running Mac OS 10.6.


----------



## wwmhf

bharris said:


> Just picked up an M8 and, WOW, I wasn't expecting the degree of improvement that it would offer over my Dragonfly 1.2. More impressions to come but I'm so impressed by the increased clarity, tightening of the bass, separation, layering... pretty much everything without sacrificing warmth to any significant degree. An eye-opener, for sure.
> 
> 
> One issue, so far: I've had about 3-4 "hiccups"- just a total signal interruption that lasts for a split second and then playback resumes?
> Does this sound familiar to anyone? Files are coming via USB from a Dell Mini 10V running Mac OS 10.6.


 
  
 Check the cable that connects M8 and your computer, and check to see if it has a good connection.
  
 Upgrading the cable often helps for M8 to perform better, but no need to buy exotic cable. 
  
 Also, using a good dedicated USB interface between M8 and the computer makes M8 sounds better, by my experience.


----------



## bharris

I'll take a look at the cable but it's the same one I've been using into the onboard DAC of another amp and hasn't had any problems.  
  
 As for a USB interface, would something like an AQ Jitterbug be in the category of what you're referring to? or other?
  
 thanks


----------



## muscleking

I have the same problem just at the beginning of first start of the m8 it has a split second of skip music then resume then ok. this is with original smsl grey cable. also I use a cheap otg cable and I have more this "clip" sound from my note 4. I think it might be cable quality. but it doesn't bug me.


----------



## bharris

I'm using a Belkin Gold cable. It's not definitely not high-end but they have been tested and found to compare well to some more expensive cables. A few years ago if you told me that I wasn't using a good enough USB cable I would have just rolled my eyes but nothing surprises me anymore.


----------



## wwmhf

bharris said:


> I'll take a look at the cable but it's the same one I've been using into the onboard DAC of another amp and hasn't had any problems.
> 
> As for a USB interface, would something like an AQ Jitterbug be in the category of what you're referring to? or other?
> 
> thanks


 
  
 USB cables like this are good:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KLFERG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 By a USB interface, I meant a USB to SPDIF converter.
  
 M8's USB interface just works, not the best. Use a USB to SPDIF converter, such as GUSTARD U12 helps. There are several products similar to GUSTARD U12 (headfi has several threads about them), make sure to get one having its own power supply, at least.


----------



## DaveLT

muscleking said:


> I have the same problem just at the beginning of first start of the m8 it has a split second of skip music then resume then ok. this is with original smsl grey cable. also I use a cheap otg cable and I have more this "clip" sound from my note 4. I think it might be cable quality. but it doesn't bug me.


 
 I use a USB cable that was provided with my dell monitor and I had no issues with delays.


wwmhf said:


> USB cables like this are good:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KLFERG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 
 However, the USB interface on the M8 is better than you think, you don't really get much better out of a U12. And you will lose support for direct control and direct support (V3.20)


----------



## wwmhf

davelt said:


> I use a USB cable that was provided with my dell monitor and I had no issues with delays.
> However, the USB interface on the M8 is better than you think, you don't really get much better out of a U12. And you will lose support for direct control and direct support (V3.20)


 
 The USB interface on the M8 works when it works, it can even work well as you mentioned. 
  
 But we are discussing a case in which the M8 does not work well for playing music from a computer. Using something like a U12 can tell if the USB interface on this M8 is the issue. My apology because my previous post did not make this idea clear. Besides that, I believe and my experience has convinced me that using M8 with a good usb bridge sounds better for red-book sources even though this configuration has its own shortcomings such DSD source and up-sampling to very high frequencies.
  
 What do you mean by "support for direct control and direct support (V3.20)"? Would you please elaborate a little for me?


----------



## Triplefun

bharris said:


> Just picked up an M8 and, WOW, I wasn't expecting the degree of improvement that it would offer over my Dragonfly 1.2. More impressions to come but I'm so impressed by the increased clarity, tightening of the bass, separation, layering... pretty much everything without sacrificing warmth to any significant degree. An eye-opener, for sure.
> 
> 
> One issue, so far: I've had about 3-4 "hiccups"- just a total signal interruption that lasts for a split second and then playback resumes?
> Does this sound familiar to anyone? Files are coming via USB from a Dell Mini 10V running Mac OS 10.6.


 
  
 Could be a PC USB driver prioritisation issue. Just for fun I suggest you try loading Daphile (www.daphile.com) off a USB stick. It can be run memory resident so does not override your existing OS. If you find it makes an improvement (sound quality with no interruptions)  and you do not use your PC for anything but music, then you have the option to install Daphile on the computer system drive.


----------



## Triplefun

I don't understand your limitations re the Gustard U12. The U12 will process anything your DAC supports. You can upsample PCM to 384k or DSD256 on your PC for output to the U12 and thence to the SMSL M8.


----------



## bharris

@Triplefun, Do you mean "limitations of the Gustard" or "limitations which would require the Gustard"?


----------



## bharris

Thanks for the help, I'll look further into the possible driver issue first. If my basic signal was degraded or constantly glitchy it would be easier for me to believe that it was a cable issue (not that it couldn't be the problem). Thanks @Triplefun.
  
 The Gustard U12 looks interesting. I've been seeing it in pictures of peoples stacks for ages and could never figure out what it was. Thanks @wwmhf.


----------



## wwmhf

triplefun said:


> I don't understand your limitations re the Gustard U12. The U12 will process anything your DAC supports. You can upsample PCM to 384k or DSD256 on your PC for output to the U12 and thence to the SMSL M8.


 
  
 I think you can connect U12 and M8 only by SPDIF which does not allow DSD and 384k.


----------



## DaveLT

triplefun said:


> I don't understand your limitations re the Gustard U12. The U12 will process anything your DAC supports. You can upsample PCM to 384k or DSD256 on your PC for output to the U12 and thence to the SMSL M8.



How does it output IIS data to the M8? The M8 has no IIS header or AES port the optical input is of course limited to only PCM and what's the point of playing DSD only to convert to PCM later?

And optical/spdif is limited to 192k as well


----------



## Triplefun

davelt said:


> How does it output IIS data to the M8? The M8 has no IIS header or AES port the optical input is of course limited to only PCM and what's the point of playing DSD only to convert to PCM later?
> 
> And optical/spdif is limited to 192k as well


 
  
 Yes, you are right - my bad. I was using the U12 to front a x20 using iis and had full dsd. I forgot the U12 does not output a USB feed.


----------



## DaveLT

triplefun said:


> Yes, you are right - my bad. I was using the U12 to front a x20 using iis and had full dsd. I forgot the U12 does not output a USB feed.



In that case what one might want is a "decrapifier" but they are pointless. Very often its because of EMI or perhaps issues with the xmos driver in conjunction with huge DPC latency on the host


----------



## Epiteto

Hi Guys.
 do tou think that this m8 dac, can be an upgrade from my cd player marantz cd6005?
 thank you!


----------



## wwmhf

epiteto said:


> Hi Guys.
> do tou think that this m8 dac, can be an upgrade from my cd player marantz cd6005?
> thank you!


 
  
 I do think so for sure, assuming you have a good copy and assuming you use an upgraded power supply.


----------



## Epiteto

Thank you


----------



## ali2538

I ordered the SMSL M8 dac from Amazon and I got it around 4 weeks later, which was fine. The problem was, it stopped working after 2 days. I'm guessing something happened with its USB board. But it doesn't matter. Luckily I ordered it from Amazon so I won't be losing any money. If you are buying it, buy it from somewhere that at least gives you a few weeks to test.


----------



## chongky

I second this. The SMSL M8 is a great dac unfortunately this forum has highlighted the Chinese company's rather poor QC. If anyone plans to get the M8 my advice is to purchase it from a reliable vendor who would service/replace a faulty unit within a warranty period, or from Amazon or Massdrop.


----------



## wwmhf

I also agree, and that was why I emphasized "assuming you have a good copy" in my previous post here.


----------



## JustHappening

Hi all – can someone confirm that software volume control works on OS X (or... macOS now I guess) with the M8? I really only care if it works in *any* bit depth, not a particular one.


----------



## beowulf

chongky said:


> I second this. The SMSL M8 is a great dac unfortunately this forum has highlighted the Chinese company's rather poor QC. If anyone plans to get the M8 my advice is to purchase it from a reliable vendor who would service/replace a faulty unit within a warranty period, or from Amazon or Massdrop.


 
  
 What are the most common issues?
  
 I got the M8 + VA2 + P1 from SMSL directly, but via their store at AliExpress. Had the stack for about one month now. Build quality (from an external point of view) seems pretty good, but that means nothing regarding component reliability. Whole stack cost about 500 EUR ($560) after taxes, so it better last at least 5 years...


----------



## Triplefun

Has anyone used the SMSL to front a naim preamp. The SMSL 8 has an output sensitivity of 2.15v whereas the NAIM systems (CD output and preamp input) are set to 0.75v (0.75volt is a NAIM standard). Presumably this means the SMSL will overload the NAIM resulting in clipping and some distortion?


----------



## DaveLT

triplefun said:


> Has anyone used the SMSL to front a naim preamp. The SMSL 8 has an output sensitivity of 2.15v whereas the NAIM systems (CD output and preamp input) are set to 0.75v (0.75volt is a NAIM standard). Presumably this means the SMSL will overload the NAIM resulting in clipping and some distortion?


 
 Most desktop dacs (if not all) have an output sensitivity of 2.15v as that's the standard line out voltage.
  
 The preamp might have a volume pot on the input, you might be able to  use that if it's clipping, otherwise it's not necessary to use a preamp


----------



## kupus

Hello,
  
 I have a problem installing the M8 dac.
 I dont know how to perform this (probably step 2) of installation.
 Here is a picture...
  
 OK, here is a link to picture of the problem:
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/frekod40afavltj/New%20Picture.jpg?dl=0


----------



## hpamdr

kupus said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have a problem installing the M8 dac.
> I dont know how to perform this (probably step 2) of installation.
> ...


 

 If you use windows 10, you should get the driver on this page : http://smsl-audio.com/c1375.html
 The picture you show are steps for old non signed drivers..
 Do not plug your device, execute XMOS-Stereo-USB-Audio-Class2-Driver-3037_v3.20.0.exe once finished you can plug your device. If you wish you can reboot !


----------



## kupus

No, I use Windows 7.
 This is the second time I am trying to install the M8.
 First time I installed it, it was to 44,1, no matter what I played on the laptop.
 I executed teh XMOS..., but I could not find the I dont know what (that is on the picture I attached)... so assumed that is the problem.


----------



## hpamdr

If it play even only in 44.1 that means it is installed or at least one of the driver on your PC recognize it !
  
 Wich player do you use and wich mode (WASAPI / ASIO .... ? 
 The link is for the last version of the driver it is working also in windows 7.


----------



## kupus

Ok, so I installed it again, using recommended driver. I also installed wasapi and asio.
 I played a 24/96 song a minute ago, foobar showed that it was a 24/96, but M8 showed 44,1 again.
 Please help. Thanks
  
 It finnaly showed 96, as the song is.
 What is your recemmondation for output: wasapi, asio...
 Thanks for help


----------



## Triplefun

kupus said:


> Ok, so I installed it again, using recommended driver. I also installed wasapi and asio.
> I played a 24/96 song a minute ago, foobar showed that it was a 24/96, but M8 showed 44,1 again.
> Please help. Thanks
> 
> ...




Try daphile (www.daphile.com). You don't need to worry with drivers and daphile can initially be loaded from a USB stick without impacting your windows install. Daphile run natively requires a dedicated PC.


----------



## Deorum

Hi there. I read all 57 pages... and i m so tempted by this small DAC. i used to have a "audiotrak prodigy hd2" sound card that was amazing, and now i want to build something similar. some questions, excuse my noobiness...

 1) if my content is not HQ, not 24bit/96khz etc etc, but simple CD quality, should i get this, or maybe there is another DAC with equal quality, and less price, that simply doesnt play DSD etc files? I mean the price carries a premium for the DSD option?

 2) if i get it right, ANY cheap cd player (30-40$ used) will sound the same good as long as it has an optical out?

 3) as i said i used to have the prodigy hd2, and was amazed. i sold it, and got for some years a avr-receiver yamaha 663, that acted also as a dac. I was never really satisfied, but the question is, how huge is the difference compared to that? are there any direct comparisons? this is after all a 200$ dac only, while others are 300-350$ all in one DAC-chasis-amp-pre-amp etc...

 regards!


----------



## wwmhf

deorum said:


> Hi there. I read all 57 pages... and i m so tempted by this small DAC. i used to have a "audiotrak prodigy hd2" sound card that was amazing, and now i want to build something similar. some questions, excuse my noobiness...
> 
> 1) if my content is not HQ, not 24bit/96khz etc etc, but simple CD quality, should i get this, or maybe there is another DAC with equal quality, and less price, that simply doesnt play DSD etc files? I mean the price carries a premium for the DSD option?
> 
> ...


 
 M8 with a good power supply can easily match, if not better than, most CD player with a price tag up to $1000. Of course this is with the assumption that downstream apparatuses such as the amp and phones are good enough.


----------



## Deorum

thank you,
 but this means that ANY cd player, as long as it has an optical out, will sound that good? Even the cheapest CD players - around?


----------



## wwmhf

deorum said:


> thank you,
> but this means that ANY cd player, as long as it has an optical out, will sound that good? Even the cheapest CD players - around?


 
 A cheap/bad CD player's digital interface might be a problem. M8's usb interface is quite decent for playing music well from a PC which is the way I mainly use M8. I did use M8 with my Sony 999es DVD player once in a while (when I did not want to turn on my computer, for example), and I liked the sound from M8 better than that from Sony itself.


----------



## DjBobby

Meanwhile, SMSL is taking preorders for new M9 Dac/amp featuring dual AK4490. 
 http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-m9-ak4390ef-32bit-768khz-dsd512-hifi-dac-decoder-balance-headphone-amplifier.html


----------



## frogmeat69

djbobby said:


> Meanwhile, SMSL is taking preorders for new M9 Dac/amp featuring dual AK4490.
> http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-m9-ak4390ef-32bit-768khz-dsd512-hifi-dac-decoder-balance-headphone-amplifier.html


 

 That is funky looking!!


----------



## beowulf

djbobby said:


> Meanwhile, SMSL is taking preorders for new M9 Dac/amp featuring dual AK4490.
> http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-m9-ak4390ef-32bit-768khz-dsd512-hifi-dac-decoder-balance-headphone-amplifier.html


 
  
 57mW at 300Ω? Seems quite a bit less than an SMSL VA2 (250mw@300Ω).
 I'd rather have a cheaper DAC-onlyM9 to pair with the VA2, for better quality/less cost than the M9 they announced.
  
 And I'm still surprised how these designers seem to know what they are doing (at least to a level of sophistication that allows them to have fairly reasonable products), charge $450 a pop and then can't even spend $20 to have a native English speaker proof-read their engrish. It just makes the whole thing feel sloppy and lacking attention to detail - which in turn makes me want to see the inside of the unit.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> 57mW at 300Ω? Seems quite a bit less than an SMSL VA2 (250mw@300Ω).
> I'd rather have a cheaper DAC-onlyM9 to pair with the VA2, for better quality/less cost than the M9 they announced.
> 
> And I'm still surprised how these designers seem to know what they are doing (at least to a level of sophistication that allows them to have fairly reasonable products), charge $450 a pop and then can't even spend $20 to have a native English speaker proof-read their engrish. It just makes the whole thing feel sloppy and lacking attention to detail - which in turn makes me want to see the inside of the unit.


 
 because they did not intent to sell outside of china, no, they don't.
  
 so the seller plops the whole user manual into google translate.
 A DAC with a screen like that is very rare, actually. So that's good. If you want a DAC with a good headphone amp, look at the aune X1S


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> because they did not intent to sell outside of china, no, they don't. so the seller plops the whole user manual into google translate.


 
   
 Well they are listed on Amazon and even AliExpress has descriptions in English, plus boxes/documentation have English. So I think they do aim at the external market too (I myself imported the whole stack from China to Europe, directly from SMSL) and that's why I find weird that they cut corners in something so simple. You can even go to those  rent-a-translator websites and the price per page for a native editing would be peanuts (even more so for a company). I can see how sellers of generic phone cases, etc, don't bother much with small texts in engrish, but a company trying to look a bit more pro (and they do want to sound pro if you read the claims) can do better.
  
 But that's just a pet peeve. I think it would make brands seem a bit more competent (and I'm not even a native English speaker,  those might find it even sloppier).
  
  
 Quote:


davelt said:


> A DAC with a screen like that is very rare, actually. So that's good. If you want a DAC with a good headphone amp, look at the aune X1S


 
  
 I find it a bit ugly, but that's not a main issue if the rest is good and the screen is actually well used in terms of functionality.
 Although it seems difficult to stack on top, at least from the angle of that photo. Assuming you'll need to stack it, that is.
  
 Not curious about the amping, but I wouldn't mind listening how the DAC compares to the Sabre ES9018 on the SMSL M8.
  
 One design concern is that the P1/VA2/M8 can get pretty hot if stacked and with hot ambient temperatures. I don't see venting grills/heatsink patterns, so they're probably going to have that same issue (which I admit, is no big deal if you put the units side-by-side instead of stacking, although that's usually how they present them in photos)


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> I find it a bit ugly, but that's not a main issue if the rest is good and the screen is actually well used in terms of functionality.
> Although it seems difficult to stack on top, at least from the angle of that photo. Assuming you'll need to stack it, that is.
> 
> Not curious about the amping, but I wouldn't mind listening how the DAC compares to the Sabre ES9018 on the SMSL M8.
> ...


 
 Listed on amazon doesn't mean SMSL did it themselves, you know. In fact, all I see there are listed by retailers and not SMSL themselves. Where did you get the idea they wanted to do export?
  
  
 AK4490 is a serious step up from the ES9018. I'm not the only one saying that and yes, I have the M8 AND AK DACs around. (Not the M9 of course, just other AK DACs)
  
 It's also a lot bigger, not exactly small. Also, venting won't make a wee bit of difference if it's CONDUCTED heat via conduction rather than convection.


----------



## DjBobby

davelt said:


> AK4490 is a serious step up from the ES9018. I'm not the only one saying that and yes, I have the M8 AND AK DACs around. (Not the M9 of course, just other AK DACs)


 
 Could you write a little bit more on differences between them, like soundstage, imaging, sub-bass etc.?


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> Listed on amazon doesn't mean SMSL did it themselves, you know. In fact, all I see there are listed by retailers and not SMSL themselves. Where did you get the idea they wanted to do export?


 
  
 The Amazon part I'm not sure, I recall the English was mixed, not pro but not perfect. I don't remember who listed it tho, perhaps it was some importer.
  
 In my case I figured they were interested in exported, just assumed so because I exchanged some messages with an AliExpress shop called SMSL-China. They have an SMSL banner and were very receptive to my questions, immediately informed about shipping to Europe via DHL, etc, looked quite proactive and focused on selling outside. But in reality I have no idea if that is the manufacturer themselves, just figured it was (also because they had the lowest prices when I check back then).
  
  


davelt said:


> AK4490 is a serious step up from the ES9018. I'm not the only one saying that and yes, I have the M8 AND AK DACs around. (Not the M9 of course, just other AK DACs)


 
  
 Interesting. I've heard good things but never had an A/B with both. Are you considering getting the M9?
  
 The VA2/M8/P1 stack ended up costing me 550 EUR ($606) after import taxes, so replacing M8>M9 would be hard to justify. Also been keeping an eye on the TA-ZH1ES to maybe replace my current stack (although to be honest I haven't understood which DAC it uses)
  


davelt said:


> It's also a lot bigger, not exactly small. Also, venting won't make a wee bit of difference if it's CONDUCTED heat via conduction rather than convection.


 
  
 Indeed, but a few heatsink-fins on the outside and some exhaust grids for passive venting just with ambient air circulation wouldn't hurt. I work with set top boxes all day long and just covering the side vents gets them a lot warmer, the things heat up bigtime. Although I agree that with passive cooling you won't properly get rid of conducted heat, especially stacking them and even more if there isn't much gap space between units.


----------



## jyang

From the M8's product page at SMSL. http://smsl-audio.com/c1274.html
  
 It looks like the firmware will be updated November 2016 to protect the OLED -- an option to have the screen sleep while not having the unit go into sleep mode (if I'm understanding the options correctly -- I've only researched the M8, but haven't bought one yet).
  


> *From November 2016 onwards*
> M6 and M8 software updated with new function of screen saver.
> Screen saver function automatically produces a blank screen if no activity in five seconds.Press any key for the software to redisplay.
> 
> ...


----------



## Deorum

I have some further questions, sorry if they seem stupid...
  
 1) would you be able to control volume throught the PC? This would mean that you cound tottally ignore the pre-amp section, and drive it straight to a power amp
  
 2) how much better would you think it is from the DAC of the average AV receiver (lets say a marantz nr1506, or a yamaha 663-683 or the average 500-600$ AV receiver?). Do you think it is really audible for the average joe (me!)
  
 I've just read the post about the upcoming m9. Yous said it is a step up? i was thinking its more like the implentation that matters ,not the actual DAC it self. Do you know maybe the price of the new m9?

 Regards,


----------



## Deorum

what is the point of having 2 dacs in the same device? what does it offer i cannot understand?
 computing power in case you have 738/32bit files?


----------



## DaveLT

deorum said:


> what is the point of having 2 dacs in the same device? what does it offer i cannot understand?
> computing power in case you have 738/32bit files?


 
 Using each half in mono mode for more SNR or lower crosstalk
  
 OR balanced operation.


----------



## zandbak

That's overkill. Better invest in a decent PSU.


----------



## borrego

zandbak said:


> That's overkill. Better invest in a decent PSU.


 
  
 Not really, dual mono and balanced design is actually more important in compact unit where traces on circuit board are so close to each others.


----------



## DaveLT

borrego said:


> Not really, dual mono and balanced design is actually more important in compact unit where traces on circuit board are so close to each others.



That's crosstalk and by the way crosstalk is not as big as a problem as you'd imagine it to be


----------



## Tager

Hi all!
 After an hour of use SMSL M8, the unit heats up. About 40 degrees. If a sniff of the rear panel, namely the power socket 9V - smell of burning plastic. Odor of burnt electronics.
 So at all?


----------



## UNOE

These get pretty warm. I have had mine for a year now, no issues.


----------



## Tager

I have everything working fine, and no problems. I ask only about the smell.


----------



## beowulf

tager said:


> I have everything working fine, and no problems. I ask only about the smell.


 

 It's normal when new, if heated up a lot. Of course only if the smell is reasonable, if it's really strong then something might be wrong.

 I have them 3x stacked now, but during the summer put the units side-by-side because they heat up a lot and was leaving me worried.


----------



## Gonzbull

Hope there's more added to the firmware update than the screen protection. My oled has significantly dimmed in places even though the DAC itself works and sounds great for the cost.


----------



## Tager

*beowulf* Thank you. The smell is weak. Hopefully soon evaporate.


jyang said:


> From the M8's product page at SMSL. http://smsl-audio.com/c1274.html
> 
> ... M8:Long-press left button(on/off screen saver function)


 
 Now long press on the left button is a function: Autostandby ON/OFF
 So she will stop working?


----------



## beowulf

tager said:


> *beowulf* Thank you. The smell is weak. Hopefully soon evaporate.
> Now long press on the left button is a function: Autostandby ON/OFF
> 
> So she will stop working?




Yes auto standby was an annoying feature in older firmwares. Now it comes OFF by default and you toggle it with the power button. I do not recall how long it takes to shutdown panel if there is no input tho...ah, manual says 5s


----------



## zandbak

Unfortunately the screensaver update will not be provided as a downloadable update:
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-m8-es9018k2m-24bit-384khz-dsd-dac-optical-coaxial-xmos-usb-asynchronous-decoder.html?p=2


----------



## Gonzbull

Here is the reply from SMSL yesterday. I guess zandbak is on the money about no firmware updates for existing users at this moment. 


Dear Previn,
Thanks for your email.

you need to send back to our factory for replacement of OLED and update with firmware free of charge.
But shipping cost will be bear at your side,you may ship by your local post,that will cost not much.

br/kelly


----------



## beowulf

gonzbull said:


> Here is the reply from SMSL yesterday. I guess zandbak is on the money about no firmware updates for existing users at this moment.
> 
> 
> Dear Previn,
> ...


 
  
 Aren't we putting too much weigh in this topic? Most OLED panels last years without any burn. On a DAC like the M8 it's quite possible that the chipset will become way behind the state of the art before the panel becomes an issue (especially because it is not even all that necessary given the very limited customization/interface).


----------



## Gonzbull

The Oled screen on my M8 is kaput hence the enquiry about a replacement. 
It is illegible because of severely dimmed pixels. I disabled the auto shut off as I could not stand having to turn on the DAC every time it shut off. I expected it to die and am not that worried about it but wanted to know if the means to fix it was there in case I wanted to do something about it.


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> Aren't we putting too much weigh in this topic? Most OLED panels last years without any burn. On a DAC like the M8 it's quite possible that the chipset will become way behind the state of the art before the panel becomes an issue (especially because it is not even all that necessary given the very limited customization/interface).



But it has already happened. You're thinking of total death not dimming, oled burn which means oled dimming is basically the display slowly dimming and becoming more illegible.

The M8 I had has already been sent back because of the screen completely failing to display anymore


----------



## DjBobby

Can you guys open the SMSL website? Wanted to check the latest firmware, but can not open the page for a while, getting always Google warning that the site is infected with malware.


----------



## beowulf

davelt said:


> But it has already happened. You're thinking of total death not dimming, oled burn which means oled dimming is basically the display slowly dimming and becoming more illegible.
> 
> The M8 I had has already been sent back because of the screen completely failing to display anymore


 
  
 Ah, I see. Indeed, I've had mine for only four months or so. In that case it makes sense.
 I usually turn the whole stack off at night and then only turn it back on the next day after work, so the panel is on perhaps 5-6h/day


----------



## zandbak

Previous updates like the auto standby function was offered via a downloadable firmware upgrade. So I'm really disappointed I have to send back the unit to China, which costs me 24 euro's, and the risk it won't even arrive. I recently sent a DAC to China for repair and it never arrived on its destination. So I'm a bit cautious in sending this DAC to China....


----------



## DjBobby

zandbak said:


> Previous updates like the auto standby function was offered via a downloadable firmware upgrade. So I'm really disappointed I have to send back the unit to China, which costs me 24 euro's, and the risk it won't even arrive. I recently sent a DAC to China for repair and it never arrived on its destination. So I'm a bit cautious in sending this DAC to China....


 

 I wouldn't take the answer of the Shenzhen Audio for granted. If you look at Q&A on their page, there are plenty of strange and funny answers, probably courtesy of the "lost in translation" problems.
 I would rather refer to the official SMSL website download section, which strangely I can not open at the moment.


----------



## zandbak

tager said:


> Hi! Who put this firmware "Update USB SMSL M8 (M8 USB v1.1.bin)" https://yadi.sk/d/B8ITHXD4mdcod
> Earned drivers from Thesycon (TUSBaudio)?
> For example these:
> TUSBaudio 2.23.0 https://yadi.sk/d/9xirNbBXmSY85
> ...


 
 First sorry to quote on a message from January, but I'm very curious which part of the firmware is updated with the provided firmware.
 Is this only for the XMOS chip or does it also effect the rest of the software within the M8 DAC?


----------



## DaveLT

beowulf said:


> 57mW at 300Ω? Seems quite a bit less than an SMSL VA2 (250mw@300Ω).
> I'd rather have a cheaper DAC-onlyM9 to pair with the VA2, for better quality/less cost than the M9 they announced.
> 
> And I'm still surprised how these designers seem to know what they are doing (at least to a level of sophistication that allows them to have fairly reasonable products), charge $450 a pop and then can't even spend $20 to have a native English speaker proof-read their engrish. It just makes the whole thing feel sloppy and lacking attention to detail - which in turn makes me want to see the inside of the unit.


 
 looks like they made a mess of the specs. It has TWO TPA6120s for headphone amp part. It's more than capable of that.


----------



## Tager

zandbak said:


> First sorry to quote on a message from January, but I'm very curious which part of the firmware is updated with the provided firmware.
> Is this only for the XMOS chip or does it also effect the rest of the software within the M8 DAC?


 
 This is the last and only firmware for the SMSL M8.
 The firmware adds the function: Long press on the left button: Autostandby ON/OFF


----------



## Janis

tager said:


> This is the last and only firmware for the SMSL M8.
> The firmware adds the function: Long press on the left button: Autostandby ON/OFF


 
 Any advice how to flash/install this firmware to SMSL M8?


----------



## zandbak

janis said:


> Any advice how to flash/install this firmware to SMSL M8?


 
 Instructions are in the download.


----------



## casperghst42

Hi,
  
 I finally got around to get Audirvana, but it does not recognise that the DAC is DSD capable, any hints on how to solve that ?
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## zandbak

You have to set DSD output to: DSD over PCM 1.1 / DoP


----------



## zandbak

Double post


----------



## casperghst42

zandbak said:


> You have to set DSD output to: DSD over PCM 1.1 / DoP


 

 Worked, thank you.


----------



## beowulf

Screensaver/Auto-Off has been working fine in mine. Didn't even know it was a feature when I got it.
 Meanwhile. I think I'm going to sell the entire stack (VA2/M8/P1)... let's see how much interest it gets in the sales forum.


----------



## zandbak

beowulf said:


> Screensaver/Auto-Off has been working fine in mine. Didn't even know it was a feature when I got it.
> Meanwhile. I think I'm going to sell the entire stack (VA2/M8/P1)... let's see how much interest it gets in the sales forum.


 
 How do you activate the screensaver function. I have activated auto standby, but I cant activate the screensaver on my device.
 Can you also check what firmware level you have on your unit?


----------



## beowulf

zandbak said:


> How do you activate the screensaver function. I have activated auto standby, but I cant activate the screensaver on my device.
> Can you also check what firmware level you have on your unit?


 
  
 It's actually just an auto-off, not really screensaver.
 If you hold the power button down for a while,. you'll get "Auto Standby ON/OFF"
  
 Firmware version.. hmm. I checked that earlier, lemme see where...


----------



## Gonzbull

Version 6.6. The new firmware has the screensaver function. No idea what version that is and not for public release. You could send your unit back to factory for the update which is rediculous if you ask me. 
Still it's a cosmetic issue mostly and I've got used to my really badly dimmed screen.


----------



## tonKopf

deorum said:


> I have some further questions, sorry if they seem stupid...
> 
> 1) would you be able to control volume throught the PC? This would mean that you cound tottally ignore the pre-amp section, and drive it straight to a power amp
> 
> ...


 
  
 In reply to your first question: Yes, you can. I am using a laptop with Volumio installed. Signal path is as follows: laptop USB > M8 > Amp Camp Amp Kit (ACA Kit). The ACA kit has not volume control. The combination of the M8 with ACA kit sound absolutely gorgeous to my ears.


----------



## Deorum

thank you.
  
 can you provide me a link to the amp cat kit?


----------



## tonKopf

http://diyaudiostore.com/products/amp-camp-amp-kit
  
 It's DIY; but I am sure you can find someone to built it for you; or you may find a used one. I bought mine used. BTW, my speakers: http://www.thehornshoppe.com/. The guys only makes one pair. Don't let the site aesthetics fool you.
 Cheers


----------



## Deorum

hello again, 
  
 quick question. 
  
 do you think it would defeat the purpose of buying a smsl-m8, if i connect its analog output  to an intergrated amp (such as the NR1506) and from there on, use further sound-processing algorithms? 

 To be more specific, i would like to do that, so the AV-amp, distinquishes the 2channel signal, to a 2.1 setup and also feed my subwoofer, by relieving my main L/R speakers of some burden (lets say 100hz) 
  
 do you think a setup like this would ruin all the improved clarity i would get? or it is still a nice upgrade option to consider?


----------



## tonKopf

deorum said:


> hello again,
> 
> quick question.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's really impossible for me to say I am afraid. If you already own an amp like this with a built-in DAC and you enjoy the sound I wouldn't bother. Otherwise see, if you can get a used SMSL M8 and try it out; you can always sell it again. Just just my two cents. Good luck!


----------



## Synthax

What is the best , most analog sounding dac from SMSL company?


----------



## DjBobby

synthax said:


> What is the best , most analog sounding dac from SMSL company?


 

 Depends on your taste. Besides, hardly anybody would have them all to compare. There are at least 8 dacs: Idol, M2, M3, Sanskrit 6, Sanskrit PRO, M6, M8 and M9.
  
 I have Sanskrit 6, M2 and M8, and am tempted to buy M9. Only I don't need the headphone amp which is implemented in M9. 
 M2 - sounds amazing clear and with good soundstage through line-out. Plays DSD as well. Makes some trouble with USB not being recognized from time to time. Lacks energy in bass. Best used as USB to Spdif converter, in my case feeding through optical out MUSE tda1543 X 4 NOS dac.
 Sanskrit 6 - laid back, rich and wooly Wolfson sound. Great bass and lower midrange, veiled highs. Very deep soundstage, which can make the music somewhat distant. No DSD. Adding the linear power supply makes the bass tighter. Bought some cheap but good one, on Aliexpress.
 M8 - fast, shiny, crisp, nervous sound. Needs a careful set-up to use it's best. Don't pair it with neutral-bright SS amps and AKG or Beyers. Works great with tube amps and darker hp-s like Senns or Audezes. In my case with Little Dot II + HD650 + P1 linear power supply. Has 3 pcm filters, plays DSD. 
  
 From these 3, technically the M8 is the best, lowest noise floor, modern clean sound, several filters to play with.
 King of the "bang for the buck" IMHO, goes definitely to Sanskrit 6th. Overall pleasant, darker sound, you can get it for less than $100.


----------



## Synthax

djbobby said:


> Depends on your taste. Besides, hardly anybody would have them all to compare. There are at least 8 dacs: Idol, M2, M3, Sanskrit 6, Sanskrit PRO, M6, M8 and M9.
> 
> I have Sanskrit 6, M2 and M8, and am tempted to buy M9. Only I don't need the headphone amp which is implemented in M9.
> M2 - sounds amazing clear and with good soundstage through line-out. Plays DSD as well. Makes some trouble with USB not being recognized from time to time. Lacks energy in bass. Best used as USB to Spdif converter, in my case feeding through optical out MUSE tda1543 X 4 NOS dac.
> ...


 

 Thank You,
 What do you think about M3?


----------



## wwmhf

djbobby said:


> From these 3, technically the M8 is the best, lowest noise floor, modern clean sound, several filters to play with.
> King of the "bang for the buck" IMHO, goes definitely to Sanskrit 6th. Overall pleasant, darker sound, you can get it for less than $100.


 
  
 I also really like M8 because it can be enhanced by a better power supply, and more importantly, it can up-sample wav music files stripped from CD up to DSD128. This up-sampling capability really brings new life to my collection of CDs.


----------



## Deorum

Schiit Modi 2 USB Digital/Analog Converter (and there is an UBER version, somewhat more expensive, i failed to find any difference)
  
 what do you think of that , compared to the smsl m8? for 1 point i have not seen any reliability issues.


----------



## wwmhf

I do not have any experience with Schiit Modi 2 USB, but I have used numerous DACs. 
  
 The recent generation of sabre based DACs can play music with more textures, if not as musical. Their capability of up-sampling wav files to DSD is a critical factor in their benefits. 
  
 Of course, reliability should be an issue to consider, especially when buying those expensive ones such as Garstud X20.


----------



## DjBobby

synthax said:


> Thank You,
> What do you think about M3?


 
 Haven't tried M3. It goes through USB only up to 96khz, on optical and digital up to 192khz. Cirrus dac, as used in M3, is sounding usually lighter and brighter. 
  


deorum said:


> Schiit Modi 2 USB Digital/Analog Converter (and there is an UBER version, somewhat more expensive, i failed to find any difference)
> 
> what do you think of that , compared to the smsl m8? for 1 point i have not seen any reliability issues.


 
 I had the Schiit Modi 2 Uber, the previous version with the AK4396. Now it is updated to AK4490. Uber has USB, optical and coax input. Sold it because it sounded congested, lean and without real sub-bass. M8 is IMHO more open, cleaner and with deeper soundstage. Schiit starts to get interesting with their multibit dacs.


----------



## Shay820

hi all 
 i read the discussion from page 1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 i need to know if m8 analog output will be better, than esi juli analog output  ?


----------



## DaveLT

deorum said:


> hello again,
> 
> quick question.
> 
> ...


 
 If that's all it does it's NOT a "sound processing algorithm" that would be DSP. 
 That's just filter shelving network or crossover for the subwoofer.
  


djbobby said:


> Depends on your taste. Besides, hardly anybody would have them all to compare. There are at least 8 dacs: Idol, M2, M3, Sanskrit 6, Sanskrit PRO, M6, M8 and M9.
> 
> I have Sanskrit 6, M2 and M8, and am tempted to buy M9. Only I don't need the headphone amp which is implemented in M9.
> M2 - sounds amazing clear and with good soundstage through line-out. Plays DSD as well. Makes some trouble with USB not being recognized from time to time. Lacks energy in bass. Best used as USB to Spdif converter, in my case feeding through optical out MUSE tda1543 X 4 NOS dac.
> ...


 
 Basically it has SABRE SOUND TM
  


wwmhf said:


> I also really like M8 because it can be enhanced by a better power supply, and more importantly, it can up-sample wav music files stripped from CD up to DSD128. This up-sampling capability really brings new life to my collection of CDs.


 
 It can't. It's the software not the DAC.
  
 Secondly, no matter how hard I've been listening I still can't tell apart my 96K FLACs from upsampled *DSD256*.
  


wwmhf said:


> I do not have any experience with Schiit Modi 2 USB, but I have used numerous DACs.
> 
> The recent generation of sabre based DACs can play music with more textures, if not as musical. Their capability of up-sampling wav files to DSD is a critical factor in their benefits.
> 
> Of course, reliability should be an issue to consider, especially when buying those expensive ones such as Garstud X20.


 
 What's a Garstud?
  


djbobby said:


> Haven't tried M3. It goes through USB only up to 96khz, on optical and digital up to 192khz. Cirrus dac, as used in M3, is sounding usually lighter and brighter.
> 
> I had the Schiit Modi 2 Uber, the previous version with the AK4396. Now it is updated to AK4490. Uber has USB, optical and coax input. Sold it because it sounded congested, lean and without real sub-bass. M8 is IMHO more open, cleaner and with deeper soundstage. Schiit starts to get interesting with their multibit dacs.


 
 That was with AK4396. Not so much with a 4490.


----------



## wwmhf

> What's a Garstud?


 
  
 It should Gustard, sorry


----------



## wwmhf

davelt said:


> It can't. It's the software not the DAC.
> 
> Secondly, no matter how hard I've been listening I still can't tell apart my 96K FLACs from upsampled *DSD256*.


 
  
 More accurately, it depends on both the software and the hardware (DAC)
  
 In you system, can you tell apart 96K flacs from its original wave file? If not, then you may consider upgrading your equipment down from the DAC


----------



## dwaleke

wwmhf said:


> can you tell apart 96K flacs from its original wave file? If not, then you may consider upgrading your equipment down from the DAC


 
 Flac is a lossless compression.   When your software decompresses the data you have the identical bits that you have with the wav format. 
  
 No one should be able to notice the difference since there is none (unless the software used to decompress flac is broken).


----------



## wwmhf

Sorry, I misread 96K flac as 96K MP3.


----------



## DaveLT

wwmhf said:


> More accurately, it depends on both the software and the hardware (DAC)
> 
> In you system, can you tell apart 96K flacs from its original wave file? If not, then you may consider upgrading your equipment down from the DAC


 
 The DAC only needs to support it. 
  
 What? ...


----------



## crazylegs

does anyone have the link were i can download the latest firmware for the SMSL M8?  My version doesn't have it.  I can hold the power on/off button for 5min and i still dont get the prompt to disable the shut off feature...  This thing is killing me.  I get sooo sick and tired of this thing shutting off every 2-3min because no sound is going through it.... arrrrrgh..!!!!   I'm about ready to through this thing out the window and buy a whole new dac..!


----------



## Shredder11

crazylegs said:


> does anyone have the link were i can download the latest firmware for the SMSL M8?  My version doesn't have it.  I can hold the power on/off button for 5min and i still dont get the prompt to disable the shut off feature...  This thing is killing me.  I get sooo sick and tired of this thing shutting off every 2-3min because no sound is going through it.... arrrrrgh..!!!!   I'm about ready to through this thing out the window and buy a whole new dac..!


 
  
  
 I just uploaded everything I have for my own SMSL M8 to a file host service.  I use this one because the links do not seem to expire, and some of mine have been there for a few years.  The M8 files are mostly zip, rar, pdf and so I recommend installing a good program like 7-Zip to read them.
  
https://mega.nz/#F!xBgzGJJb!y1ZVIF_4ctPJ8FbZ38GuVA


----------



## wwmhf

Thanks a lot for providing us these resources!!!


----------



## zandbak

shredder11 said:


> I just uploaded everything I have for my own SMSL M8 to a file host service.  I use this one because the links do not seem to expire, and some of mine have been there for a few years.  The M8 files are mostly zip, rar, pdf and so I recommend installing a good program like 7-Zip to read them.
> 
> https://mega.nz/#F!xBgzGJJb!y1ZVIF_4ctPJ8FbZ38GuVA


 
 Thanks! Is it worthwhile to use the modded 1.1 firmware?


----------



## Shredder11

I've no idea to be honest as my M8 worked fine out of the box, but I did my usual thing of downloading everything I could while still available, as things like this do not hang around for long in my experience.  I think a lot of this was sourced from this very forum topic, which is about three years old now?  One or two of the files were from a recent link provided by another member here.  A few minutes ago I revisited the link and it seems it has a new update for this month!  It says the update provides DSD256 which is amazing to find this, plus November's update provided a new sleep mode for the display to stop it burning itself out over time.
  
 The website causes my FireFox browser to issue a warning, so I had to ignore this to get to the files.  Afterwards I scanned with my ESET NOD32 Anti-Virus and also Malwarebytes, and they both said all the files were totally clean and safe.  I've added the files to my MEGA.nz shared folder from my earlier post.
  
http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=list&cs=jishuzhichi&id=1274


----------



## crazylegs

Shredder11:  I totally appreciate you uploading that... ive search for years looking for them...  Ill give them a try and report back... Hopefully this will keep me from spending more money heheheheheh..


----------



## crazylegs

so i tried using the firmware you provided and im getting the same errors as my previous attempts..   I'm wondering if my version of the M8 has a locked boot loader or something...
  
  
  
 Device opened.
 Ready for firmware update.
  
 Entering upgrade mode...
 Upgrading firmware...
 0 of 32256 bytes transferred.
 TUSBAUDIO_GetDfuStatus: Function  failed with error code 0xEE000003.
 Firmware upgrade failed!


----------



## DjBobby

> Originally Posted by *Shredder11* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> A few minutes ago I revisited the link and it seems it has a new update for this month!  It says the update provides DSD256 which is amazing to find this, plus November's update provided a new sleep mode for the display to stop it burning itself out over time.
> 
> ...


 
  


crazylegs said:


> so i tried using the firmware you provided and im getting the same errors as my previous attempts..   I'm wondering if my version of the M8 has a locked boot loader or something...


 
  
 Well it says: "*Used for the newest version of M8 produced** on or after Dec. 2016". *


----------



## Shredder11

Ahh I see so this unfortunately means I cannot update my M8 either, because I bought mine in September 2015.  I did notice when quickly reading the latest hardware driver manual, that it says:
  


> M8 New version important notice
> 
> Thanks for purchasing SMSL M8 DAC.We have updated the hardware and firmware for it which enable to play DSD256 music file and also uses the newest driver.Please download "M8(DSD256)" driver from service center in our website.If it is a driver CD,please use M9 driver to install by double-clicking "setup.exe" application.


 
  
  
 So I assume that hardware manufactured recently will have the latest firmware, ready to use with the December 2016 driver.  Which means the last firmware update file for my 2015 M8 DAC is *M8 USB v1.1.bin* and the driver *xmosusbaudiost3037_dfuapp.exe* unless someone else here knows better than I?


----------



## zandbak

Looks like they made a hardware revision on the new M8 DAC. But on the other hand SMSL offers free firmware upgrades to devices bought before November 2016, you have to send your unit to China to apply the firmware update....


----------



## zandbak

I just dropped the question to shenzhenaudio to provide me the instructions for the free factory firmware upgrade to add the screensaver option. Despite the fact I have very bad experience with sending items to China I'm also curious if the update incorporates the DSD256 upgrade.


----------



## JWunder

wwmhf said:


> I also really like M8 because it can be enhanced by a better power supply, and more importantly, it can up-sample wav music files stripped from CD up to DSD128. This up-sampling capability really brings new life to my collection of CDs.


 
  
 I haven't heard of that. Can it upsample without software such as foobar? If so, how?


----------



## JWunder

The M8 is a great dac, but I'm getting these strange intermittent dropouts and pops when anything is played at 352800hz or DSD128. It does NOT happen at 384000 or the 6.x mhz version of DSD128  (the 48mhz version of DSD128). I have a fast I7-4790 machine, so it shouldnt be a performance problem. When it says LOCKED in the display, the dropouts never happen. Is there some way I can induce locking to happen at 352800 so I don't get dropouts? (Upsampling from 44.1 to 352800 is cleaner than 384000)


----------



## wwmhf

You can also use other software such as jriver


----------



## zandbak

zandbak said:


> I just dropped the question to shenzhenaudio to provide me the instructions for the free factory firmware upgrade to add the screensaver option. Despite the fact I have very bad experience with sending items to China I'm also curious if the update incorporates the DSD256 upgrade.



 

Today I received the answer that I can send my unit to shenzhenaudio to get the screensaver update, however the DSD256 update is not possible. So it looks like they are introducing some kind of Mark II.


----------



## Shredder11

So is it possible for me to do my own firmware update or like you, do I have to send my M8 to China for them to do it?


----------



## crazylegs

man that is too bad that they will not give you the firmware...!!!


----------



## zandbak

shredder11 said:


> So is it possible for me to do my own firmware update or like you, do I have to send my M8 to China for them to do it?


 
 No, you need to send the unit to china.


----------



## zandbak

crazylegs said:


> man that is too bad that they will not give you the firmware...!!!


 
 Yes it is, since I had no issues with flashing the m8v1.1.bin file.


----------



## B0bR0ss

I've successfully installed the M8 USB v1.1.bin update (installed XMOS-Stereo-USB-Audio-Class2-Driver-3037_v3.20.0.exe and then ran xmosusbaudiost3037_dfuapp.exe), thank you for providing the files *Shredder11* 

. Can someone explain me what the screensaver functionality does? During playback the screen seems to stay on like before. The device turns off in its entirety after the music stops, but it already did that (it did have the auto-standby feature already).
  
 Also, is there a way I can check which firmware the device is running? I just see 6.60 in the xmos control panel.
  
 Thank you all!


----------



## dwaleke

b0br0ss said:


> I've successfully installed the M8 USB v1.1.bin update (installed XMOS-Stereo-USB-Audio-Class2-Driver-3037_v3.20.0.exe and then ran xmosusbaudiost3037_dfuapp.exe), thank you for providing the files *Shredder11*
> 
> . Can someone explain me what the screensaver functionality does? During playback the screen seems to stay on like before. The device turns off in its entirety after the music stops, but it already did that (it did have the auto-standby feature already).
> 
> ...




Pretty sure that version added auto standby. You have to send your unit to China to get the firmware with the screensaver functionality. 

New M8s have newer hardware that support dsd256.


----------



## B0bR0ss

Not sure if mine is the new one. I bought it 11 Dec 2016 from Amazon in Germany. Pity the screensaver firmware isn't downloadable, would be very nice to have.


----------



## DjBobby

b0br0ss said:


> Not sure if mine is the new one. I bought it 11 Dec 2016 from Amazon in Germany. Pity the screensaver firmware isn't downloadable, would be very nice to have.


 

 If you bought it in December, the chances are pretty high that you got the latest version. If you have the latest version, the screensaver firmware is downloadable and applicable for you.


----------



## B0bR0ss

Does anybody know the steps to get this is installed though? I don't find any other .bin files that I can use with the xmosusbaudiost3037_dfuapp.exe flashing application.


----------



## Doge91

If this was asked before I apologise:
 Where can I buy the most up-to-date release of M8? I'm from Europe if that matters. Thanks in advance, cheers.


----------



## dwaleke

Email here:  sell@shenzhenaudio.com.
  
 They have the latest version.


----------



## zandbak

doge91 said:


> If this was asked before I apologise:
> Where can I buy the most up-to-date release of M8? I'm from Europe if that matters. Thanks in advance, cheers.


 
 You can get the latest version via eBay as well.


----------



## jkorten

I received my own stack for this DAC the day before yesterday. Quite impressed. Will be my bedside system for when I wake up at 3AM (I have found that listening to a symphony allows my brain to freewheel and I can fall back asleep after 30 or 40 minutes).
  
 After one day of burning in, I took it from my stereo system (Clementine and gmusicbrowser) to my desktop sytem where I downloaded deadbeef to try playing DSD. (All on Linux Mint 17.3). After trying various settings on deadbeef (direct to smsl without software mod) I found that using software modifications resulted in something that sounded like music but at 1/4 the sample rate.
  
 Then the unit stopped working. Power cycle, move to another computer - nothing. It showed that the signal was being received over USB, sample rates were switching correctly etc. I tried bypassing the headphone amp, thinking this may be the problem. No sound.
  
 So then by chance I tried holding in the button on the left and then turned the power on. Voila! Sound is back.
  
 By the way - although the headphone amp doesn't necessarily have a pedigree - this site: http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html 
  
 allows you to download the same file in various sample rate formats (choose the Britten it is a lovely melody). I can clearly hear the difference even between 192 and 384 khz even on my Shure 1840 cans. (These download as multiples of 44.1k by the way so not sure they are labelled incorrectly or what.)
  
 Anyhow - if anybody has any luck getting dsd to play through deadbeef on this DAC I'd love to know how you did it. I will try Windows and foobar next, but can't seem to get Windows 7 to recognize the DAC yet.
  
 Happy Listening!
  
 Jerry


----------



## wwmhf

> Anyhow - if anybody has any luck getting dsd to play through deadbeef on this DAC I'd love to know how you did it. I will try Windows and foobar next, but can't seem to get Windows 7 to recognize the DAC yet.
> 
> Happy Listening!
> 
> Jerry


 
  
 I have no problem to use it on computer with Windows. Have you installed the driver for this device?


----------



## wwmhf

I did not have to install any driver on Linux type computers such as Daphile


----------



## jkorten

Thanks WWMHF,
  
 I have installed the xmos driver that shows as USB Audio 2.0 Stereo Driver v3.20.0
  
 Is this the latest version?
  
 My dac isn't even recognized. That is when I call up the "Sound" page on control panel it only lists the "realtek High Definition Audio" built in card and nothing else. (Other dacs work based on the CM6631 Cmedia receiver.)
  
 Suggestions appreciated.
  
 J


----------



## jkorten

Oh - on linux I get all sample rates just fine, except the DSD comes across as white noise, loud white noise.


----------



## wwmhf

I think v3.20.0 is the one coming with M8, but I am not sure that is the latest one.


----------



## jkorten

Turns out for DACs manufactured after December 2016 there is a new driver. I now get it to be recognized by windows. Again no sound. I just did a power cycle and this time held both front buttons down and the thing started making sound again.
  
 Now in Linux it makes no sound no matter what switches I hold down when I power up.
  
 Strangely the sample rates display correctly and switch according to the source file.
  
 This no longer appears to be a stable device after 2016. Too bad. Really cute little kit. I hope they take it back.
  
 J


----------



## beowulf

jkorten said:


> Thanks WWMHF,
> 
> I have installed the xmos driver that shows as USB Audio 2.0 Stereo Driver v3.20.0
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried connecting it via coaxial? I used it via USB for quite some time but recently changed to coaxial and the only thing listed now is indeed Realtek HD Audio.


----------



## jkorten

Haven't tried coax yet. USB is receiving. But I have it with my friend who is trying on his computers to make sure my computers aren't the issue.
  
 Again this is a brand new driver for a brand new series evidently, so older units may work fine. This one isn't. We'll get to the bottom of this by the end of the weekend.
  
 Thanks for the help though I will ask him to try the coax input.
  
 Jerry


----------



## edinaldo12

jkorten said:


> Thanks WWMHF,
> 
> My dac isn't even recognized. That is when I call up the "Sound" page on control panel it only lists the "realtek High Definition Audio" built in card and nothing else. (Other dacs work based on the CM6631 Cmedia receiver.)
> 
> ...




I'm facing a similar problem. I've just arrived home from vacations and my M8 isn't been recognized by my Intel NUC. It worked flawlessly for an year and a half.

I changed USB ports, cables, and nothing worked. When I tried to reinstall the driver it shows an error "connect device to install...", But it's connected.

Any idea?


----------



## frogmeat69

I've had similar problems with the M8, and the iDSD, what worked for me is to disconnect DAC, completely uninstall driver, then reinstall like you normally would.


----------



## edinaldo12

frogmeat69 said:


> I've had similar problems with the M8, and the iDSD, what worked for me is to disconnect DAC, completely uninstall driver, then reinstall like you normally would.




Thank you but now I think the problem is in the M8. I've just tried to install the M8 on another PC and it didn't recognize either.

I'm unable to test the coaxial and optical inputs.

Is there a chance to repair it without sending the DAC to China?


----------



## jkorten

Update - OK on a separate Linux machine all works with standard PCM files. I am not going to try DSD on a linux machine because I think this is what must have screwed up a configuration file somewhere for alsa, pulse, or something. But sample rates switch through clementine so long as I specify - alsa and  hw:1 (you have to find out what number your dac is by running alsamixer from a terminal window and hitting f6).
  
 Windows - you need to install the latest xmos driver for dacs built after 12/16. In windows all works. I haven't yet tried DSD.
  
 What a pain. I will probably have to re-install linux mint to get it working again. I can't figure out how I broke it. But broke it I did!
  
 J


----------



## WannaBeOCer

I noticed with driver v3.2 with the Windows 10 anniversary update I have to disable secure boot in my UEFi(bios) for my SMSL M8 to work. The new v3.34 driver is for the newer SMSL m8 made in December or after.


----------



## edinaldo12

wannabeocer said:


> I noticed with driver v3.2 with the Windows 10 anniversary update I have to disable secure boot in my UEFi(bios) for my SMSL M8 to work. The new v3.34 driver is for the newer SMSL m8 made in December or after.




Thank you but it was already disabled.
I just installed win10 and the problem persist. DAC not recognized.

I don't have a usb-spdif interface but I used a hdmi audio extractor and connected to M8 via coaxial. It worked. But I lost audio in my TV/monitor, so it isnt the solution i need for.


----------



## theweezle

Right now, the M8 is on massdrop for 180... basically the same price as an idsd nano... I likely wont buy another dac in my future, which one should I go for assuming that it will mostly be plugged into the desktop.

 I am worried about the problems mentioned in this thread, as I want the dac to last me more than just a year....


----------



## edinaldo12

Any ideas how to contact SMSL in order to send them my broken unit to repairing?

Or in other way: where could I buy a Hiface two usb-spdif interface to use my SMSL M8 via coaxial?


----------



## wwmhf

theweezle said:


> Right now, the M8 is on massdrop for 180... basically the same price as an idsd nano... I likely wont buy another dac in my future, which one should I go for assuming that it will mostly be plugged into the desktop.
> 
> I am worried about the problems mentioned in this thread, as I want the dac to last me more than just a year....


 
  
 If I were you, I will go with M8, especially the new version, for a desktop set. It has the potential to sound better with a better power supply and better music source.


----------



## Doge91

Just got my package with M8 from massdrop. Not sure if I received the newest model or not. It does have "screensaver on/off" function. I installed the drivers from http://www.xmos.com/support/usb-audio-driver-support
  
 DSDx64 and DSDx128 works in foobar, but DSDx256 doesn't. Is there anything I can do about it? Install some newer drivers or firmware? Or was I just unlucky and received the older model that has to be sent to China in order to play DSDx256?


----------



## jkorten

You need to uninstall all xmos drivers.
 Go here : http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp?classid=94&p=2
 download the "newest version" of the driver and install all of that.


----------



## Doge91

jkorten said:


> You need to uninstall all xmos drivers.
> Go here : http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp?classid=94&p=2
> download the "newest version" of the driver and install all of that.


 
 By "newest version" you mean the file from 13th December that has "newest version" in its filename? Cause there's also a "newer" driver just called M8 from 23th December.


----------



## jkorten

I am assuming you bought yours after 2017 started in which case it is a post December production unit.
  
 "M8(DSD256) Driver（(Used for the newest version of M8 produced on or after Dec. 2016)"​  
Would  be the link you want.​  
Regards,​  
Jerry​


----------



## Doge91

I bought it from massdrop in January 2017. I installed the drivers as instructed but still getting error when playing DSD256 "sample rate not supported by device". I'm guessing they sent me the older model?


----------



## jkorten

SOLVED!!!
  
 Symptom - m8 plugged in to linux system, boot up. System thinks it's sending sound to the device but you hear nothing.
  
 The fix - open a terminal window,
  
 type in alsamixer to start the alsamixer application
  
 make sure each column has "00" under it and not "MM" if not press the "m" key to toggle this so everything reads "00"
  
 Now select the correct "sound card" by pressing F6 - cursor down to the m8 device listing.
  
 Under each interface column (mine shows IAP Interface and IAP Interface 1) make sure it shows "00" and if not press the "m" key to toggle out of "MM" which by the way stands for mute.
  
 For some reason if you boot up with the M8 plugged in - you can enter this state. Not all the time but some times (when you most want to listen to music).
  
 Happy listening.
  
 Jerry


----------



## beowulf

jkorten said:


> SOLVED!!!
> 
> Symptom - m8 plugged in to linux system, boot up. System thinks it's sending sound to the device but you hear nothing.


 
  
 Glad you got it solved. I'm quite happy with the M8 so far. And with the VA2 too. Didn't even expect them to be so quiet with the SE846 but it's a totally dead flat silence, zero hiss. Going to check with the CA Andromeda next week, they are even more sensitive.
  
 This is a neat stack. I think they could be priced a bit lower, but still at the current prices there aren't all that many good alternatives.
  
 Hopefully the units are durable too. That's my only concern.


----------



## jkorten

I guess it's an anomaly in the xmos driver.
  
 I bought my complete stack for $370 with the help of a Chinese friend who purchased it there, and had it sent here. So eventually the price will come down.
  
 J


----------



## midlifeaudio

I bought this one to replace defective Topping D30. Works flawlessly with Sonore microrendu via USB , no driver installation needed.


----------



## airwyn3

doge91 said:


> I bought it from massdrop in January 2017. I installed the drivers as instructed but still getting error when playing DSD256 "sample rate not supported by device". I'm guessing they sent me the older model?


Hi! Were you able to play dsd256 materials on your M8 already? Or are you still considering having received an outdated unit from Massdrop?


----------



## sepukku

Looking for a sub 200 DAC for my laptop, and the only real options seem to be ifi nano idsd or smsl m6. I could stretch by budget to 250, the price of m8, but I really wonder if it's worthy. Gonna use it with headphones only, and people say that M6 has a better hp output than the M8. Any opinion for which DAC should I go with, based on these DAC's audition?


----------



## theweezle

I auditioned both the m8 and the idsd nano. I couldn't hear the difference even on my stax.  I ended up with the idsd as it was cheaper, and the m8 had reliability concerns.


----------



## fritobugger

sepukku said:


> Looking for a sub 200 DAC for my laptop, and the only real options seem to be ifi nano idsd or smsl m6. I could stretch by budget to 250, the price of m8, but I really wonder if it's worthy. Gonna use it with headphones only, and people say that M6 has a better hp output than the M8. Any opinion for which DAC should I go with, based on these DAC's audition?


 
  
 The M8 doesn't have an amp section as it is only a DAC with RCA outputs.


----------



## wwmhf

sepukku said:


> Looking for a sub 200 DAC for my laptop, and the only real options seem to be ifi nano idsd or smsl m6. I could stretch by budget to 250, the price of m8, but I really wonder if it's worthy. Gonna use it with headphones only, and people say that M6 has a better hp output than the M8. Any opinion for which DAC should I go with, based on these DAC's audition?


 
  
 You can get M8 from Massdrop for less than $200. However, as mentioned in the previous post, M8 does not have amp in it, and it needs an external power supply that makes it a less ideal mate for a laptop intended for mobility.


----------



## frogmeat69

sepukku said:


> Looking for a sub 200 DAC for my laptop, and the only real options seem to be ifi nano idsd or smsl m6. I could stretch by budget to 250, the price of m8, but I really wonder if it's worthy. Gonna use it with headphones only, and people say that M6 has a better hp output than the M8. Any opinion for which DAC should I go with, based on these DAC's audition?


 

 M8 has no built in  amp, DAC only,  never heard the M6, read it is nice, but the iDSD Nano LE can be had for $129, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N0DVG58/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=94LOVIEPPGP9&coliid=I1A4RYUNNEDQO6


----------



## sepukku

wwmhf said:


> You can get M8 from Massdrop for less than $200. However, as mentioned in the previous post, M8 does not have amp in it, and it needs an external power supply that makes it a less ideal mate for a laptop intended for mobility.


 
  
 Thanks, I've already ordered the iDSD. If I'm not satisfied with it, at least I know that I have to to throw in 1k+ for the start, to even have the chance to be satisfied with the SQ.


----------



## sepukku

frogmeat69 said:


> M8 has no built in  amp, DAC only,  never heard the M6, read it is nice, but the iDSD Nano LE can be had for $129, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N0DVG58/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=94LOVIEPPGP9&coliid=I1A4RYUNNEDQO6


 
  
 Thanks, but it does not ship to Europe, and it would be +24% VAT at least. Price in Europe is Eur 200, gotta live with it. And I'm talking about the non LE variant.


----------



## Jimster480

There is a new massdrop for the M8, anyone looking should hop onto it.
  
 I know I will be hopping on it right now.


----------



## beowulf

sepukku said:


> Thanks, but it does not ship to Europe, and it would be +24% VAT at least. Price in Europe is Eur 200, gotta live with it. And I'm talking about the non LE variant.


 
  
 The M8 is worth it tho, but you do need the amp too so it's just not a very transportable option.
  
 By the way, for Europeans, I'm thinking of flipping my VA2+M8+P1 stack.... works fine and is under warranty, but I have some unfrugal gluttony for the Sony TA-ZH1ES and well, one makes the other redundant. So if you're in the EU and want this stack, that's a way to get it cheaper.


----------



## Jimster480

beowulf said:


> The M8 is worth it tho, but you do need the amp too so it's just not a very transportable option.
> 
> By the way, for Europeans, I'm thinking of flipping my VA2+M8+P1 stack.... works fine but I have some unfrugal gluttony for the Sony TA-ZH1ES and well, one makes the other redundant.


 

 Well I just got the M8 via Massdrop, will have to wait like a month or so now until it arrives.
 I also ordered a Topping A3 amp.
 At $113 shipped it was too good to pass up and try out.

 Magni 2 Uber is far too powerful for my sensitive headphones & IEM's and the O2 Amp doesn't have a Aux Passthrough, meaning I need a second box which brings the total cost for one to around $175 with shipping and requires more hardware + unmatching hardware.
 The M8 (and later on the Modi Multibit) will match with the Topping A3 which from the pictures seems to be very well built.

 They have designed an audio stack of D30 + A30 to compete I guess with SMSL's M8 + VA2 + P1 stack, although they are coming in at basically half the price with very similar if not the same features.


----------



## DjBobby

jimster480 said:


> Well I just got the M8 via Massdrop, will have to wait like a month or so now until it arrives.
> I also ordered a Topping A3 amp.
> At $113 shipped it was too good to pass up and try out.
> 
> ...


 

 Couldn't find any reference to Toping A3 on their website. Did you mean maybe A30 or NX3?


----------



## Jimster480

djbobby said:


> Couldn't find any reference to Toping A3 on their website. Did you mean maybe A30 or NX3?


 

 Sorry I meant A30, it was a typo


----------



## beowulf

Anyone using the full M8+VA2+P1 stack?


----------



## Shredder11

beowulf said:


> Anyone using the full M8+VA2+P1 stack?


 
  
 Yes I am.


----------



## beowulf

shredder11 said:


> Yes I am.


 
  
 Have you compared the noise floor while using the P1 vs using the wall power cubes for the M8+VA2?


----------



## Shredder11

No I have only used the P1 power supply.  I have not noticed any noise but then again I have not measured it with software either.  I've done all kinds of audio recording and sequencing over the past thirty years, and so I am used to the causes and amounts of noise etc.  Anyway the SMSL bundle works really well in this regard, and I was fussing over certain aspects prior to purchasing such as the lack of balanced audio outputs, but I need not have worried.


----------



## beowulf

shredder11 said:


> No I have only used the P1 power supply.  I have not noticed any noise but then again I have not measured it with software either.  I've done all kinds of audio recording and sequencing over the past thirty years, and so I am used to the causes and amounts of noise etc.  Anyway the SMSL bundle works really well in this regard, and I was fussing over certain aspects prior to purchasing such as the lack of balanced audio outputs, but I need not have worried.


 
  
 It's a good stack indeed. I only partially regret getting the P1 because I think my power lines here are not too noisy. But to be fair, I haven't compared with the power wall-warts yet. The SMSL stack is totally flat silent with the CA Andromeda tho, which is always rare.. those things pickup noise out of any source.
  
 I also wondered about the balanced, but after comparing with other sources, I think they're not relevant or necessary for such a stack.


----------



## ljbrandt

Wow, I'm the OP and I never would have thought this item would have received so much attention! It's funny that I'm still using the Stoner UD120 and never ended up trying the m8.
  
 Has anyone successfully used the m8 to power loudspeakers through a straight power amp?  I need good volume control, and I thought sabre chipped DACs had the ability to do digital attenuation, but it doesn't look like the M8 has this capability. I would be a bit hesitant to use their VA-2 headphone amp as a preamp to a 200w power amp.  What do you guys think?


----------



## Jimster480

I am actually getting an M8 in the mail and I have a Topping D30/A30.
 I will compare them all, but the Topping stuff looks really really competitive especially for the price, with nice build quality too.


----------



## Shredder11

ljbrandt said:


> Wow, I'm the OP and I never would have thought this item would have received so much attention! It's funny that I'm still using the Stoner UD120 and never ended up trying the m8.
> 
> Has anyone successfully used the m8 to power loudspeakers through a straight power amp?  I need good volume control, and I thought sabre chipped DACs had the ability to do digital attenuation, but it doesn't look like the M8 has this capability. I would be a bit hesitant to use their VA-2 headphone amp as a preamp to a 200w power amp.  What do you guys think?


 
  
 I use my M8 bundle through a Mackie 402VLZ4 mixer and into a pair of hand made active Quested S7 reference studio monitors.  Nice clean and transparent sound with a strong signal from the Mackie.  However when using my AKG K712 PRO headphones I plug those into the SMSL VA2 headphone amp.  I have the output from the SMSL M8 DAC going into a switch, which routes it to either the Mackie or the VA2.


----------



## Jimster480

shredder11 said:


> I use my M8 bundle through a Mackie 402VLZ4 mixer and into a pair of hand made active Quested S7 reference studio monitors.  Nice clean and transparent sound with a strong signal from the Mackie.  However when using my AKG K712 PRO headphones I plug those into the SMSL VA2 headphone amp.  I have the output from the SMSL M8 DAC going into a switch, which routes it to either the Mackie or the VA2.


 
 What switch are you using?


----------



## fritobugger

ljbrandt said:


> Wow, I'm the OP and I never would have thought this item would have received so much attention! It's funny that I'm still using the Stoner UD120 and never ended up trying the m8.
> 
> Has anyone successfully used the m8 to power loudspeakers through a straight power amp?  I need good volume control, and I thought sabre chipped DACs had the ability to do digital attenuation, but it doesn't look like the M8 has this capability. I would be a bit hesitant to use their VA-2 headphone amp as a preamp to a 200w power amp.  What do you guys think?


 
  
 Funny, I recently switched from the Stoner UD120 to the Schiit Modi Multibit on my speaker system.  Nice improvement overall.  I should probably sell the UD120.


----------



## Shredder11

jimster480 said:


> What switch are you using?


 
  
 I just used what I had available and that is a simple 3-way audio video box,  that you can buy anywhere very cheaply.


----------



## ljbrandt

fritobugger said:


> Funny, I recently switched from the Stoner UD120 to the Schiit Modi Multibit on my speaker system.  Nice improvement overall.  I should probably sell the UD120.


 
 Have you owned the M8 as well? If so, how did it compare to the UD120?


----------



## Jimster480

shredder11 said:


> I just used what I had available and that is a simple 3-way audio video box,  that you can buy anywhere very cheaply.


 

 Ah Okay, yea I know the ones you are talking about.
 I have one laying around aswell.
 I wasn't sure what that would do to the audio quality though.


----------



## fritobugger

ljbrandt said:


> Have you owned the M8 as well? If so, how did it compare to the UD120?


 
  
 I don't recall much difference between the M8 and the UD120.  I only used them on the same system briefly and that was two years ago.  I wasn't expecting much change.  I went to the M8 for it's ability to decode DSD files.


----------



## Jimster480

fritobugger said:


> I don't recall much difference between the M8 and the UD120.  I only used them on the same system briefly and that was two years ago.  I wasn't expecting much change.  I went to the M8 for it's ability to decode DSD files.


 

 Do you actually have music in DSD?


----------



## fritobugger

jimster480 said:


> Do you actually have music in DSD?


 
  
 No but I was also unhappy with how hot the UD120 got and how it was easy to cause drop outs if bumped or moved even a little.


----------



## ljbrandt

fritobugger said:


> I don't recall much difference between the M8 and the UD120.  I only used them on the same system briefly and that was two years ago.  I wasn't expecting much change.  I went to the M8 for it's ability to decode DSD files.


 
 I kind of figured this would be the case.  The UD120 actually bested an iFi nano I tired awhile ago. I have a feeling most dacs under $200-300 bucks will sound about the same. I really can't justify spending more than that on a DAC. I beleive a bigger return on investment would be seen in better speakers/headphones or an amp. If the right deal comes around, I want to try a vintage Theta dac I keep hearing good things about (although  I believe that would limit me to 44.1 kHz and 16bit).
  
Thanks for your opinion on the m8


----------



## Jimster480

fritobugger said:


> No but I was also unhappy with how hot the UD120 got and how it was easy to cause drop outs if bumped or moved even a little.


 

 I see, I just got the M8 in but i haven't unboxed it yet. I have been busy with my Topping D30.


----------



## fritobugger

jimster480 said:


> Do you actually have music in DSD?


 
  
  
 I misread your question as do I have MUCH music in DSD.  I don't have a lot of DSD music but I do have a few albums in that format.


----------



## Jimster480

fritobugger said:


> I misread your question as do I have MUCH music in DSD.  I don't have a lot of DSD music but I do have a few albums in that format.


 

 Ah,
 Well I guess if you actually have something in DSD. Most people don't (I don't either) so despite the DSD capable devices I won't ever be playing any DSD (atleast I doubt I will).


----------



## fritobugger

jimster480 said:


> Ah,
> Well I guess if you actually have something in DSD. Most people don't (I don't either) so despite the DSD capable devices I won't ever be playing any DSD (atleast I doubt I will).


 
  
 I likely won't get anymore DSD music because they take up a lot of hard drive space and I really can't hear an improvement over 16/44 or 24/192.  They sound great but not really any different than the other hi-res formats.
  
 That said, the M8 is a very nice DAC and it pairs well with my Gustard H10 amp.


----------



## svmusa

I own an M8 and Sanskrit Pro DAC, different chips and M8 is a lot better DAC in my setup. Any stepup DAC to M8 from fellow owners in $300 to $500 range you have in your system that you would recommend?


----------



## Jimster480

svmusa said:


> I own an M8 and Sanskrit Pro DAC, different chips and M8 is a lot better DAC in my setup. Any stepup DAC to M8 from fellow owners in $300 to $500 range you have in your system that you would recommend?


 

 Schiit Modi Multibit or Bifrost Multibit


----------



## DjBobby

svmusa said:


> I own an M8 and Sanskrit Pro DAC, different chips and M8 is a lot better DAC in my setup. Any stepup DAC to M8 from fellow owners in $300 to $500 range you have in your system that you would recommend?


 

 Chord Mojo.


----------



## beowulf

djbobby said:


> Chord Mojo.


 
  
 There are so many choices around $500-$600, but I'm going to share an opinion... unless maximum portability is important, @svmusa can also consider the iFI IDSD Micro Black Label. It's at the top of the budget band, but IMHO it offers a lot more value than the Mojo, but it's about twice the size.


----------



## vaki

Has anyone hear the updated version M8A? It is listed on Amazon by SMSL and there are some aliexpress sellers offering those as well. It is supposed to have different chip, ES9028Q2M, and support DSD512.


----------



## Jimster480

vaki said:


> Has anyone hear the updated version M8A? It is listed on Amazon by SMSL and there are some aliexpress sellers offering those as well. It is supposed to have different chip, ES9028Q2M, and support DSD512.


 

 Where can I tell my hardware version?
 I just got an M8 like a week ago.


----------



## vaki

jimster480 said:


> Where can I tell my hardware version?
> I just got an M8 like a week ago.


 
 No idea. Maybe the weight. The new one should be 398 g. Not sure what the old one weights, but should be less


----------



## vaki

Strangely, the new one seems to have lower SNR than original m8.
 M8a ~ 117 http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=116
 M8 ~ 125 https://www.amazon.com/ES9018-Optical-Coaxial-Asynchronous-decoder/dp/B00PS0WLX6


----------



## Jimster480

Lol I'll check the box in a bit.


----------



## Jimster480

Mine is the original.


----------



## vaki

I've started a new thread for M8A not to spam this one.


----------



## Katji

! Why? It's just a new version of M8.


----------



## vaki

There is a new chip, which is big change IMO. Especially since this thread is called new-m8-dac-from-smsl-*9018*-xmos. But I can delete it...


----------



## Katji

ohh, yes, the chip name, the thread title.   ...Good.


----------



## McKinneyMike

OK I just received my SMSL M8 DAC latest build (Post Dec 2016).  I did not receive any installation CD and have no idea how to get my PC to recognize this DAC.  I looked in my Control Panel under Sound Devices and obviously it is not there.  How do I get Windows 10 to see my DAC so that I can use it?


----------



## Jimster480

mckinneymike said:


> OK I just received my SMSL M8 DAC latest build (Post Dec 2016).  I did not receive any installation CD and have no idea how to get my PC to recognize this DAC.  I looked in my Control Panel under Sound Devices and obviously it is not there.  How do I get Windows 10 to see my DAC so that I can use it?


 

 Google Xmos USB driver.
  
 http://www.xmos.com/support/usb-audio-driver-support


----------



## zandbak

Go to the SMSL website and download the latest driver for the post dec 2016 model.


----------



## McKinneyMike

OK thanks for the info about the driver.  I got the appropriate driver from web site but now I am getting an error when I try to install:  
  
*NSIS ERROR*
  
*Error Launching Installer*
  
I have deleted and downloaded this driver multiple times and tried to install with same results.  Any idea why this is happening?  Windows 10 OS.
  
Thanks,
  
Mike


----------



## Katji

Try the one from the XMOS site. (If it is not obviously the exact same file.) 
i've never seen that error before...but i've never used Windows 10.


----------



## Jimster480

That usuallyu


mckinneymike said:


> OK thanks for the info about the driver.  I got the appropriate driver from web site but now I am getting an error when I try to install:
> 
> *NSIS ERROR*
> 
> ...


 

 This is what happens if the installer is corrupted or incomplete, it can sometimes be caused by antivirus' and other times caused by your internet connection dropping to the SMSL site.
 Like I said I am using the one from the link I provided.


----------



## McKinneyMike

jimster480 said:


> That usuallyu
> 
> This is what happens if the installer is corrupted or incomplete, it can sometimes be caused by antivirus' and other times caused by your internet connection dropping to the SMSL site.
> Like I said I am using the one from the link I provided.


 
 Is this the version that you downloaded?
  
USB Audio Class 2.0 Evaluation Driver for Windows 
  
 It said something about beep tones every 5 minutes and that didn't sound like something that I wanted to hear


----------



## Jimster480

mckinneymike said:


> Is this the version that you downloaded?
> 
> [COLOR=0595C6]USB Audio Class 2.0 Evaluation Driver for Windows[/COLOR][COLOR=464749] [/COLOR]
> 
> It said something about beep tones every 5 minutes and that didn't sound like something that I wanted to hear




No i downloaded the Xmos driver normal package.


----------



## carlmart

Even if I know this forum doesn't seem to be too much into modifying stuff, the M8 seems to be interesting into trying some upgrades.
  
 It's not too much I'd do, but replacing the internal DC-DC supply with external linear types or mu-metal shielding it are the options that come to my mind.
  
 SMSL did a good thing in the general design, but I believe linear supplies are less noisy, particularly in RF. Just take a look at the noise figures on some AD or LT regulators, and you would have another reason for switching to linear supplies.
  
 Adding some shielding over the DC-DC supply area, where the chokes are, using mu-shield foil might be a simpler mod to try, hot-gluing the "cages" to the board on the red-marked areas.
  
 Personally I would go for bypassing the DC-DC supply, but that does demand some DIY experience.


----------



## Katji

Have you read the posts about power supply? Experiments /tests with battery and with an external PSU, and with the SMSL P1 Linear PS.


----------



## carlmart

katji said:


> Have you read the posts about power supply? Experiments /tests with battery and with an external PSU, and with the SMSL P1 Linear PS.


 
 Yes, I have read some.
  
 Not yet those specific to the SMSL P1 supply, but I did take a look.
  
 From what I could learn below, the interface would be just regulated 9v, not replace the switching regulators inside.
  
 https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-p1-linear-power-supply-for-m8-v2-va2-sanskrit-sd-793ii-sd-192.html
  
 The P1 doesn't attend the RFI issues I raised, as the DAC keeps its internal DC-DC supply.
  
 In any case, my question was to see if anyone did or was thinking of applying any PS upgrades or changes in their M8.


----------



## jkorten

The standard SMSL linear power supply is regulated by LM317 voltage regulators. Puts out two voltages - one for the headphone amp and one for the DAC. (9 and 12VDC).


----------



## carlmart

jkorten said:


> The standard SMSL linear power supply is regulated by LM317 voltage regulators. Puts out two voltages - one for the headphone amp and one for the DAC. (9 and 12VDC).


 
 It doesn't matter how much regulation or what chip you use there.
  
 The power supply inside the DAC will be the one in command and the one that should be improved.


----------



## jkorten

Hmmm - I tried replying but don't see it, so I'll try again.
  
 If you're talking about the DC-DC switcher that generates +/- 12V internally then yes to an extent. The output impedance of the external power supply will affect the DC-DC switcher. But if you want to modify this, then you'll need to change the connector to handle three voltages. Switching power supplies per-se are not inherently bad. DACs like the Mytek use them.
  
 You're probably better off working the same hours for $ and purchasing an MHDT Pagoda, or work longer for a Mytek Brooklyn (if DSD is your thing). 
  
 J


----------



## Jimster480

I think that overall it won't make a difference.
 Modern semiconductors are tolerant to these changes and thats what you are paying for in the DAC chip itself.
  
 Just as the P1 made basically 0 difference for the normal M8 I highly doubt that changing the PSU will do anything in this case even if you change the internal one.


----------



## jkorten

jimster480 said:


> I think that overall it won't make a difference.
> Modern semiconductors are tolerant to these changes and thats what you are paying for in the DAC chip itself.
> 
> Just as the P1 made basically 0 difference for the normal M8 I highly doubt that changing the PSU will do anything in this case even if you change the internal one.


 
 Does this mean you've not actually heard the difference?


----------



## Gonzbull

There are lots of discussions on Linear Power Supplies on ComputerAudiophile. All seem to be positive reviews. I run my M8 with an LPS. 
Problem is I never used the original switching power supply it came with and I also use a Regen. I never bothered to do an A/B comparison. 
I have a Dangerous Music Source that I chucked an LPS on and there was a discernible difference for the better. I guess some devices would benefit and others won't form a LPS.


----------



## Jimster480

jkorten said:


> Does this mean you've not actually heard the difference?


 

 The only time I have experienced differences with audio products with power supplies in the past is when the power isn't clean from the original power supply (even if that supply is USB).
  
 If you read reviews on the M8 many people did them and also bought linear power supplies or built them and experienced 0 difference. Even major audio publications tried it out and didn't experience a difference.
 Power supply quality today is inherently good even at a very rock bottom price.
  
 Once again this is due to the extremely good IC's of today. Even our "crappy" processes are worlds ahead of what they were 10+ years ago.
  
 When you check into the parts used even in most of these large "name brand" audio devices, they are often no different then what is used in cheaper offerings (like ths SMSL and Topping products).
 Also the price of these parts are insanely cheap, most DAC's are under $20 for the actual chips. TI has a number of them under $10 (as do most DAC companies) and they are sonically better than what was available 10+ years ago (unless you were in the bleeding edge).
 Most of the "highest regarded" OPAmp's come from TI and cost between $0.75 and $10 so when you look at products in the thousands and they are using $50 worth of parts there is no magic there....

 I actually find it funny to see people swearing by these overpriced niche products that are literally made of the same components as some of the cheap even sometimes portable offerings.
 Also every DAC company these days has a competing "flagship" DAC and most companies selling stand-alone DAC's are advertising their ability to have 384 or even 786hz audio decoding or DSD512 playback. When in reality 90%+ of music is 16/44.1 or 24/96 or 24/48.
 I'm not saying that 24/192 cannot sound better, but you won't find things recorded like this and if you are a person like me or my wife who actually listen to music for hours on end on a regular basis you can bet that most likely you will be listening to a streaming service that won't go above the aforementioned qualities.


----------



## carlmart

As usual when we get into these discussions, where we deal with subjective responses, things get very complicated.
  
 To start with, even if you listen to a single speaker that can handle all frequencies well, particularly the mid ones, you get used to it and get to like it.
  
 About the people that used the M8 with other supplies, and got zero difference, that's only useful if they did bypass the internal supplies. 
  
 DIYinhk sells XMOS DAC boards that has inputs for external linear supplies, so in spite of modern chips being better, I guess is because DC-DC designs would have to be a LOT better (and expen$ive) to improve on a good linear supply.
  
 My question is supposed to be answered by people that actually did bypass the internal supplies, and what were their findings.


----------



## Jimster480

carlmart said:


> As usual when we get into these discussions, where we deal with subjective responses, things get very complicated.
> 
> To start with, even if you listen to a single speaker that can handle all frequencies well, particularly the mid ones, you get used to it and get to like it.
> 
> ...



I doubt anyone would have done this. 
It requires hefty modifications. 

Do you have an M8/M8a? Because it sounds perfectly fine (M8) out of the box and is very resolving. 
If you want to mess with it then I suggest you buy a used one from ebay Or wait for massdrop and then mod it!


----------



## jkorten

Quote: See answers embedded after ">" 





jimster480 said:


> The only time I have experienced differences with audio products with power supplies in the past is when the power isn't clean from the original power supply (even if that supply is USB).
> 
> If you read reviews on the M8 many people did them and also bought linear power supplies or built them and experienced 0 difference. Even major audio publications tried it out and didn't experience a difference.
> Power supply quality today is inherently good even at a very rock bottom price.
> ...


----------



## WannaBeOCer

Is it possible to get this SMSL M8 DAC to work with secure boot enabled? I have the Pre 2016 SMSL M8 and it was working perfectly before I got Windows 10 installed. Now it tells me something is wrong with the driver signature.


----------



## Jimster480

jkorten said:


>


 

 Design in the semiconductor industry does not matter that much.
 In terms of digital signals, placement of said parts doesn't matter.
 Voltage regulation is easily handled, and PCB technology ensures clean signals.

 Its all a myth basically.
  
 Computers are 99999999999999x as complex as a DAC or any singular audio component, somhow they function perfectly fine and last for years at minimal costs.
 With motherboards being $30 and lasting years using high quality components.
 Maybe a $90 board is better in respects to power phasing, but that's where it ends.
  
 All of this "design" crap really doesn't make a difference in the end unless the design / implementation is horrible.


wannabeocer said:


> Is it possible to get this SMSL M8 DAC to work with secure boot enabled? I have the Pre 2016 SMSL M8 and it was working perfectly before I got Windows 10 installed. Now it tells me something is wrong with the driver signature.


 

 Yes it works fine on my Windows 10 machines.
 Just google Xmos driver and download the one for windows 10.


----------



## McKinneyMike

jimster480 said:


> That usually
> 
> This is what happens if the installer is corrupted or incomplete, it can sometimes be caused by antivirus' and other times caused by your internet connection dropping to the SMSL site.
> Like I said I am using the one from the link I provided.


 
   OK I got a driver that now attempts to install, but I get an error that it thinks the DAC is not connected/turned on.  I have rebooted the DAC multiple times, I have used different USB ports, changed USB cables, made sure that I had USB selected on the DAC.  What else can I do?  Anyone?
  
http://www.mckinneyhardwoods.com/image2.jpg


----------



## Jimster480

mckinneymike said:


> OK I got a driver that now attempts to install, but I get an error that it thinks the DAC is not connected/turned on.  I have rebooted the DAC multiple times, I have used different USB ports, changed USB cables, made sure that I had USB selected on the DAC.  What else can I do?  Anyone?
> 
> http://www.mckinneyhardwoods.com/image2.jpg


 

 Does your computer detect it when you plug it in?


----------



## McKinneyMike

jimster480 said:


> Does your computer detect it when you plug it in?


 
 No it does not.  I am returning the unit for replacement.  The vendor has been very responsive so far, so hopefully I will get my replacement ASAP.  Thank you for your input.


----------



## Jimster480

mckinneymike said:


> No it does not.  I am returning the unit for replacement.  The vendor has been very responsive so far, so hopefully I will get my replacement ASAP.  Thank you for your input.


 
 Yep its sounding like its defective


----------



## Jimster480

So I am just updating everyone that I have the M8A now also and the M8A runs much cooler than the M8.
The sound signature is the same and while I haven't done any side by side extensive testing yet the M8a has a couple bugs in it with the input switching but otherwise I think that it is comparable despite the slightly lower SNR. 

Personally I still think that the Topping D30 is more "organic" than either of them and the M8/M8A filters do taper off some harsh notes in songs better than the D30 so that could be a plus or minus depending on how you look at it.


----------



## jkrichards

Jimster480 said:


> So I am just updating everyone that I have the M8A now also and the M8A runs much cooler than the M8.
> The sound signature is the same and while I haven't done any side by side extensive testing yet the M8a has a couple bugs in it with the input switching but otherwise I think that it is comparable despite the slightly lower SNR.
> 
> Personally I still think that the Topping D30 is more "organic" than either of them and the M8/M8A filters do taper off some harsh notes in songs better than the D30 so that could be a plus or minus depending on how you look at it.




I compared this new M8A DAC with the original M8 and think the old one sounds better. The low Mids are a little bloated and not as coherent as the original M8. Also DSD playback is way too hot compared to PCM (Hi Res flac). DSD playback is 2X louder than the original M8. It almost overloads my preamp. Also it restarted several times when I was comparing the two. I hope they fix these issues or I'm afraid they will have a flop.  Sending the M8A back and keeping the original M8.  I think I will look at the new GUSTARD DAC-X20 Pro USB and see how the M8 compares.


----------



## Jimster480

jkrichards said:


> I compared this new M8A DAC with the original M8 and think the old one sounds better. The low Mids are a little bloated and not as coherent as the original M8. Also DSD playback is way too hot compared to PCM (Hi Res flac). DSD playback is 2X louder than the original M8. It almost overloads my preamp. Also it restarted several times when I was comparing the two. I hope they fix these issues or I'm afraid they will have a flop.  Sending the M8A back and keeping the original M8.  I think I will look at the new GUSTARD DAC-X20 Pro USB and see how the M8 compares.



 Yes I also had mine crash a few times in testing it. Especially when changing inputs. Also switching it from USB to coax caused it to disconnect from windows which is not some that my M8 does. 
I Didn't compare the sound side by side but they definitely sound similar. 
The M8A does run much cooler though, while I didn't try DSD the DAC is louder than my daily use Topping D30.


----------



## Ymer

Considering I'm only interested in the DAC, should I go for this, a Dragonfly Red or something else in the price range? Thanks!


----------



## Jimster480

Ymer said:


> Considering I'm only interested in the DAC, should I go for this, a Dragonfly Red or something else in the price range? Thanks!



This is much better than a dragonfly red.
And its a DAC and not a dongle for headphones.


----------



## Ymer

Wonder if it works with an iPad g2? That'd make a nice source for my home setup. Thanks!


----------



## Jimster480

Ymer said:


> Wonder if it works with an iPad g2? That'd make a nice source for my home setup. Thanks!



It should, you could email SMSL and see.


----------



## manukmanohar (Oct 3, 2017)

Hi All,
For the SMSL M8 massdrop version which comes with CD, what is the best option for a Windows 10 laptop?
I'm having Jriver 20, should I install the driver in the CD and run in wasapi mode or direct mode or asio mode? Which provides the best SQ?

Also, is the linear power supply supposed to help, only if there are problems with the power connection at your place? (the reason why some people claim no difference with the power supply on)? Will any power supply that provide 9 V, 1.6 A suffice, or does P1 make more difference, based on your experience?


----------



## zandbak

manukmanohar said:


> Hi All,
> For the SMSL M8 massdrop version which comes with CD, what is the best option for a Windows 10 laptop?
> I'm having Jriver 20, should I install the driver in the CD and run in wasapi mode or direct mode or asio mode? Which provides the best SQ?
> 
> Also, is the linear power supply supposed to help, only if there are problems with the power connection at your place? (the reason why some people claim no difference with the power supply on)? Will any power supply that provide 9 V, 1.6 A suffice, or does P1 make more difference, based on your experience?


I would advise you to download the latest driver from the SMSL support website.


----------



## carlmart

The ES9028 is an improvement over the ES9018?


----------



## wwmhf (Oct 3, 2017)

carlmart said:


> The ES9028 is an improvement over the ES9018?



Yes, it is, and it can be obvious if your other equipments in the chain are up to reveal its strength.


----------



## Jimster480

wwmhf said:


> Yes, it is, and it can be obvious if your other equipments in the chain are up to reveal its strength.


You are wrong. It's a marginal improvement. 
From someone who had both and tested side by side there was no difference between the two. 
Also the original has better on paper specs (M8). 
In terms of paper specs the 9028 is an upgrade more in terms of better power usage and thermals for slightly better audio performance.


----------



## UNOE

Is there any other power supply for this that is better than stock but not $140 (p1)?


----------



## UNOE

Like something like this possibly? 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1275642-REG/ifi_audio_0306007_9v_ipower_9v_for_usb.html


----------



## DjBobby

UNOE said:


> Like something like this possibly?
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1275642-REG/ifi_audio_0306007_9v_ipower_9v_for_usb.html


No, this is the same switching supply, nothing better. 
There are some custom made linear power supplies on Aliexpress which go for around $50. Excellent quality, I have 4 of them with different voltages. They are very bulky, definitely not for a desktop but to be kept underneath.


----------



## Jimster480

Yes as DjBobby said there are plenty of custom made linear power supplies which you can put under your desk. 
But some people have tested the linear power supplies and determined that they have no effect at all. 
I've never used my M8 with a linear power supply.


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## wwmhf (Nov 12, 2017)

UNOE said:


> Is there any other power supply for this that is better than stock but not $140 (p1)?



If daring to buy from the EBay, then these seem to be decent:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25VA-Dual-...281405?hash=item25d611cf7d:g:k~oAAOSwKytZDWpv
https://www.ebay.com/itm/15VA-DC-Ul...018163?hash=item1c877a37f3:g:574AAOSwhOdXn2Rw

But I do not know how good they are because I do not use any of them. I built the power supplies for my M8 and M8A myself.


----------



## UNOE

Wish I knew how to build one I bought a speaker amp from Breeze Audio before it was not bad.  That one seems to be wrong voltage for M8 though.


----------



## Jimster480

The ebay ones are fine, linear power supplies are not magic.


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## carlmart

wwmhf said:


> If daring to buy from the EBay, then these seem to be decent:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/25VA-Dual-...281405?hash=item25d611cf7d:g:k~oAAOSwKytZDWpv
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/15VA-DC-Ul...018163?hash=item1c877a37f3:g:574AAOSwhOdXn2Rw
> .



They do not specify what regulator they are using, or show any pictures on what's inside. That could give some hint on the quality. 

.





> But I do not know how good they are because I do not use any of them. I built the power supplies for my M8 and M8A myself.



Can you show schematics and pictures of your supply?


----------



## carlmart

UNOE said:


> Wish I knew how to build one I bought a speaker amp from Breeze Audio before it was not bad.  That one seems to be wrong voltage for M8 though.



I did not understand. What speaker amp is that and what supply you are referring to? 

Building a power supply, as long as you use "normal" size parts, is rather easy and a good place to start. 

Building your own will guarantee the quality of the parts and help you buy better stuff.


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## wwmhf (Nov 12, 2017)

carlmart said:


> They do not specify what regulator they are using, or show any pictures on what's inside. That could give some hint on the quality.
> 
> .
> 
> Can you show schematics and pictures of your supply?



A simpler one is quite standard like this:






A more sophisticated one is the sigma11 power supply kindly provided on AMB web page:

https://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/sigma11_200_sch.pdf

Both works well with M8 and M8A. Make sure to use better (better quality and maybe higher capacity) filter capacitors and ultra low noise rectifier diodes. Use a by-passing capacitor across each rectifier diodes seems to help a little.


----------



## UNOE

carlmart said:


> I did not understand. What speaker amp is that and what supply you are referring to?
> 
> Building a power supply, as long as you use "normal" size parts, is rather easy and a good place to start.
> 
> Building your own will guarantee the quality of the parts and help you buy better stuff.


I owned a breeze audio tpa3116 speaker amp just basic stereo amp.  But sounded good and still works.


----------



## UNOE

Do Linear Power supplies help with ground loop?  When I use my JBL Monitors I get buzzing with M8 (USB from computer source).  If I use optical with M8 I don't get ground loop issues only USB.  I don't get buzzing with headphones and m8 with USB source, only the monitors.


----------



## wwmhf

UNOE said:


> Do Linear Power supplies help with ground loop?  When I use my JBL Monitors I get buzzing with M8 (USB from computer source).  If I use optical with M8 I don't get ground loop issues only USB.  I don't get buzzing with headphones and m8 with USB source, only the monitors.



I not think so.


----------



## carlmart

wwmhf said:


> A simpler one is quite standard like this:
> 
> A more sophisticated one is the sigma11 power supply kindly provided on AMB web page:
> 
> ...



Sometimes more sophisticated just means more complicated. 

My concern is more for better sounding. But that is a relative thing which might be more related to personal "taste" or subjective opinion. 

The LT1084 is a very well known regulator, with a nice impedance response. But if you are looking for very low noise, you should look elsewhere, like on the LT3042, which you could implement in a quite similar way to the 1084. That is until you get to the input. 

Something like this should be good place to start:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Out...789701&hash=item1ecbc5caa7:g:ZOgAAOSwFM1ZcLgx


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## wwmhf

carlmart said:


> Sometimes more sophisticated just means more complicated.
> 
> My concern is more for better sounding. But that is a relative thing which might be more related to personal "taste" or subjective opinion.
> 
> ...



Thanks for tip. I never use this LT3042 and I will give it a try later.


----------



## edinaldo12

Hi
My M8 stopped working via USB. Other connections are ok. I've tried different computers, OS, cables, drivers. Nothing worked. And it is out of warranty.

Does anybody have the service manual by any chance?


----------



## Shredder11

Ground loop noise is something that involves an entire set up, and steps need to be observed to reduce the level or opportunity for it to happen.  So sometimes worn out cables can be the cause, or ones without shielding.  However sometimes you just need to put careful thought, into the type and quality of equipment you buy and where you position each part of your setup, e.g. avoiding placing power cables or supplies near to audio cables that will act as an antenna for the interference.  Also the length of cables matter and the shorter the better, to reduce the chance of it being near something noisy.

I have the full SMSL M8 bundle with P1 power supply, and I do not get any ground noise or any other noise for that matter.  I run the audio output to a passive spliiter box (so I can select headphone amp or speakers), and from that to a small qualityA audio sub-mixer that acts as a transparent preamp to give a strong signal to my large Quested S7 active reference monitors.  In the same room I use the SMSL setup I have experienced very nasty and aggressive ground loop noise with other equipment, but I have always solved this by replacing worn out cables and careful positioning of equipment etc.


----------



## UNOE

Thanks I'm not sure where else to start though I have tried separate 120 volt outlets from different breakers on audio equipment vs computer.  My computer has a 80 plus gold rated power supply.  Tried changing wire locations tried isolation devices potions
I think I need balanced setup.


----------



## Jimster480

UNOE said:


> Thanks I'm not sure where else to start though I have tried separate 120 volt outlets from different breakers on audio equipment vs computer.  My computer has a 80 plus gold rated power supply.  Tried changing wire locations tried isolation devices potions
> I think I need balanced setup.


Balanced shouldn't fix the problem.
What problem is it specifically, can you go into more detail about the noise you are hearing?


----------



## Shredder11

UNOE said:


> Thanks I'm not sure where else to start though I have tried separate 120 volt outlets from different breakers on audio equipment vs computer.  My computer has a 80 plus gold rated power supply.  Tried changing wire locations tried isolation devices potions
> I think I need balanced setup.



I must stress the importance of replacing cables with brand new ones, if you are using ones that are not brand new.  Just because you are getting a signal does not mean they are in good condition.  Even when running equipment from batteries you can suffer noise in the signal chain, if you cables are no good.


----------



## wwmhf

Trying out different cables is a good idea.


----------



## DjBobby

UNOE said:


> Thanks I'm not sure where else to start though I have tried separate 120 volt outlets from different breakers on audio equipment vs computer.  My computer has a 80 plus gold rated power supply.  Tried changing wire locations tried isolation devices potions
> I think I need balanced setup.


I had ground loop problems with a bunch of equipment, including Schiit Magni2Uber/Modi2Uber, SMSL Sap II pro, Little Bear P1 etc., yet never with the M8 + P1. Using it only in USB mode with the MB Pro. According to my experience, I would rather start searching for the problem around the headphone amp area than a dac.


----------



## UNOE

Jimster480 said:


> Balanced shouldn't fix the problem.
> What problem is it specifically, can you go into more detail about the noise you are hearing?


I have tried different USB cables even tried modding a USB cable and removing the 5 volt pin.  The noise only is on monitors not headphones or headphones amps.  I can drive mojo through USB to RCA out to Monitors 6.35 input, I get noise.  Same with M8 USB to Schitt SYS then monitors noise.
Noise sounds like computer processor noise changes if something like white is on the screen.
Optical on both mojo and m8 has alot less noise just a faint hum not processor noises.
JBL monitor I have only have balanced in.  So I think I need balanced input from something like DX7.  I don't think I'll solve it any other way.
I have good cables don't have $500 RCA's but I've tried my best.  Earlier I mentioned I tried plugging only monitor into separate breakers AC outlet and tried cominations of having either DAC or computer on otther breaker.  But mojo in battery mode give monitors the computer noise.  Also tried monitors on a dummy plug that eliminates the ground.


----------



## Jimster480

Super expensive cables won't fix the problem. They are just marketing.


----------



## Shredder11

Jimster480 said:


> Super expensive cables won't fix the problem. They are just marketing.



Agreed,  All you need are properly working cables in perfect condition.


----------



## Jimster480

Shredder11 said:


> Agreed,  All you need are properly working cables in perfect condition.


Yes I bought some specifically sized ones on ebay from GhentAudio they cost around $30 for everything because I wanted a specific size.


----------



## UNOE

I been thinking of buying some from there too for the JBL monitors connection.  But at this point I might get DX7 so I would need a different cable if so.  Can't deicide.
But noise issue might not ever be solved.


----------



## Jimster480

UNOE said:


> I been thinking of buying some from there too for the JBL monitors connection.  But at this point I might get DX7 so I would need a different cable if so.  Can't deicide.
> But noise issue might not ever be solved.


DX7++++++++++


----------



## fritobugger

DjBobby said:


> I had ground loop problems with a bunch of equipment, including Schiit Magni2Uber/Modi2Uber, SMSL Sap II pro, Little Bear P1 etc., yet never with the M8 + P1. Using it only in USB mode with the MB Pro. According to my experience, I would rather start searching for the problem around the headphone amp area than a dac.




I had a ground loop issue with the P1 but not with the stock power supply.


----------



## DjBobby

A question to Apple users: what does macOS show in a devices list when you connect M8? 
I just got M8A as well, and was wondering why does M8 show up as XMOS USB 2.0, and M8A with it's full name SMSL M8A. Thanks.


----------



## PLazarou

Hi fellow M8 owners, and anyone else who might be reading this... I've used an M8 since late 2015, and it has been great. When I first installed it, I found a few DSD samples to test, which worked well, but I haven't tested them for a long time, as most of my audio is 44.1kHz mp3 or flac.

I tried them again recently, and got a load of static or white noise. Some of the original audio was still detectable, but almost entirely drowned out by static. I'm pretty sure I hadn't changed my foobar setup, but I had a fiddle after this discovery and have probably made things worse. I've installed up-to-date versions of the ASIOProxy and foo_input_sacd which appear to work slightly differently to before, but the best I can get out of it is static. 

The M8 is otherwise functioning as normal, all my non-DSD audio works perfectly. Any ideas what might be going on here? Did Windows 10 get a weird audio update that broke something?


----------



## PLazarou

PLazarou said:


> Hi fellow M8 owners, and anyone else who might be reading this... I've used an M8 since late 2015, and it has been great. When I first installed it, I found a few DSD samples to test, which worked well, but I haven't tested them for a long time, as most of my audio is 44.1kHz mp3 or flac.
> 
> I tried them again recently, and got a load of static or white noise. Some of the original audio was still detectable, but almost entirely drowned out by static. I'm pretty sure I hadn't changed my foobar setup, but I had a fiddle after this discovery and have probably made things worse. I've installed up-to-date versions of the ASIOProxy and foo_input_sacd which appear to work slightly differently to before, but the best I can get out of it is static.
> 
> The M8 is otherwise functioning as normal, all my non-DSD audio works perfectly. Any ideas what might be going on here? Did Windows 10 get a weird audio update that broke something?


Answering my own post... as I've just figured it out. It seems DSD playback only works when the Windows volume is set to almost max. I guess at some point I turned it down and never realised because I rarely use these files. Quite strange... huge amounts of static and then suddenly it all goes away at around 98% volume. I would love to know the technical reason for that.


----------



## Shredder11

PLazarou said:


> Answering my own post... as I've just figured it out. It seems DSD playback only works when the Windows volume is set to almost max. I guess at some point I turned it down and never realised because I rarely use these files. Quite strange... huge amounts of static and then suddenly it all goes away at around 98% volume. I would love to know the technical reason for that.



Yes the maximum volume thing is well known amongst M8 owners.  I'm constantly using the master volume controls on my computers all day long, and so I would have spotted this issue instantly anyway.  Why do I change the volume so much?  Because online media channels tend to be normal one moment, and then blow your head off with extreme sound the next.  So I tend to keep the volume very low most of the time, to avoid causing damage to my hearing.  I think the generation that used to be better educated about sound, have gradually gone in to retirement in the past twenty years or so.  So now we have the millennial generation who think it is clever, to have everything compressed to the maximum with a heap of bass frequencies on top, to pound and rip your head off with constantly aggravating noise in your face.

I think most people buy the M8 because they wish to playback DSD files, and at the time I bought mine in September 2015 it was the most bang per buck (or pound in my case!).  One of the unexpected additional benefits for me, is coming across a lot of 32-bit audio files and therefore I am able to play those too.  I've found that out of all the formats I have played on it, I mostly like vinyl rips the best followed by well made DSD album conversions.  However sometimes it can be hard to choose between the two, because they can both have something different and equally good to offer, e.g. Toto IV (1982) [SACD] (2002 Remaster) and Toto (1982) - Toto IV [US Columbia, FC 37728].


----------



## frogmeat69

Could try to adjust the buffer size in the USB driver's control panel, pretty sure it happened to me before with DSD.


----------



## PLazarou

Shredder11 said:


> Yes the maximum volume thing is well known amongst M8 owners.  I'm constantly using the master volume controls on my computers all day long, and so I would have spotted this issue instantly anyway.  Why do I change the volume so much?  Because online media channels tend to be normal one moment, and then blow your head off with extreme sound the next.  So I tend to keep the volume very low most of the time, to avoid causing damage to my hearing.  I think the generation that used to be better educated about sound, have gradually gone in to retirement in the past twenty years or so.  So now we have the millennial generation who think it is clever, to have everything compressed to the maximum with a heap of bass frequencies on top, to pound and rip your head off with constantly aggravating noise in your face.
> 
> I think most people buy the M8 because they wish to playback DSD files, and at the time I bought mine in September 2015 it was the most bang per buck (or pound in my case!).  One of the unexpected additional benefits for me, is coming across a lot of 32-bit audio files and therefore I am able to play those too.  I've found that out of all the formats I have played on it, I mostly like vinyl rips the best followed by well made DSD album conversions.  However sometimes it can be hard to choose between the two, because they can both have something different and equally good to offer, e.g. Toto IV (1982) [SACD] (2002 Remaster) and Toto (1982) - Toto IV [US Columbia, FC 37728].


Yes I guess it set itself to 100% volume on initial install, and having bought a separate headphone amp at the same time, I was happy to control the volume with that instead. But I'm like you, and become frustrated by the extremely variable volume levels that you get across internet video and audio content, and at some stage I must have decided it was more convenient to have the DAC turned lower, not realising it was effectively disabling the DSD mode.

Anyway, I have a separate question for you, as your M8 is about the same age as mine - how's your display? As mine is almost permanently displaying 'USB', 'FAST', and '44.1kHz', these pixels have faded significantly. As you can see in the photo below, when it displays something else, those rarely-used pixels are way brighter. Hard to show in a photo with the right exposure, but you can probably see how much dimmer the 'USB' is on the screen, as well as a few dimmer pixels in the top right and in the 'DSD64' display.


----------



## Shredder11

PLazarou said:


> Anyway, I have a separate question for you, as your M8 is about the same age as mine - how's your display? As mine is almost permanently displaying 'USB', 'FAST', and '44.1kHz', these pixels have faded significantly. As you can see in the photo below, when it displays something else, those rarely-used pixels are way brighter. Hard to show in a photo with the right exposure, but you can probably see how much dimmer the 'USB' is on the screen, as well as a few dimmer pixels in the top right and in the 'DSD64' display.



I've not used mine at all for a few months now, due to neighbours making EXTREME noise with hip hop / rap moronic braindead crap muzak.  So even listening on headphones is impossible and undesirable.  Anyway that said, my M8 display is still in full working order and brightness etc.  However I had thought about soldering a small switch or resistor, to prolong the life of the display and only make it visible on demand.  I'm no electronics expert unlike my uncle, so I am wary of causing damage.


----------



## PLazarou

Shredder11 said:


> I've not used mine at all for a few months now, due to neighbours making EXTREME noise with hip hop / rap moronic braindead crap muzak.  So even listening on headphones is impossible and undesirable.  Anyway that said, my M8 display is still in full working order and brightness etc.  However I had thought about soldering a small switch or resistor, to prolong the life of the display and only make it visible on demand.  I'm no electronics expert unlike my uncle, so I am wary of causing damage.


Interesting. Perhaps I leave mine on for too long, burning the display out. But it's possible that your display has faded a bit but you haven't noticed. I didn't notice because it faded so gradually over the course of 2+ years, until one day I happened to play a rare 48kHz track and saw the '8' light up brighter than the rest.


----------



## zandbak

frogmeat69 said:


> Could try to adjust the buffer size in the USB driver's control panel, pretty sure it happened to me before with DSD.


I don't have any buffer settings in my XMOS driver control panel. Do you have the advanced Thesycon driver working on the original M8?


----------



## frogmeat69

zandbak said:


> I don't have any buffer settings in my XMOS driver control panel. Do you have the advanced Thesycon driver working on the original M8?


Sorry, haven't had mine hooked up for a few months and must be thinking of a different driver for another DAC.


----------



## amirm

FYI I just measured and reviewed the SMSL M8 DAC.  It performed excellently!


----------



## Katji

amirm said:


> FYI I just measured and reviewed the SMSL M8 DAC.  It performed excellently!



 ! Amir! What a good news! (Katji from .za forum here.)  So glad you got to it. I'll read just now. So glad to see it's good.


----------



## DjBobby

amirm said:


> FYI I just measured and reviewed the SMSL M8 DAC.  It performed excellently!


Thanks a lot for this. Any chance to review SMSL M8A and compare it with M8?


----------



## amirm

DjBobby said:


> Thanks a lot for this. Any chance to review SMSL M8A and compare it with M8?


My pleasure .  Yes, I have the M8a and will compare and review them.


----------



## amirm

Katji said:


> ! Amir! What a good news! (Katji from .za forum here.)  So glad you got to it. I'll read just now. So glad to see it's good.


Yes, it is good to find proper engineering in such low cost audio devices.  I have so much more expensive products that can't do what these are able to do!


----------



## Katji

I bought the SMSL P1 linear power supply with it (going by 1 or 2 reports here,) so the total cost was much more, but still less than an equivalent DAC with built-in power supply.  Either way, though, i prefer it to using the USB power.


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## manukmanohar (May 30, 2018)

A friend has reported great success in upgrading from 3 1612 OPA to LME49720MAX Opamp. But, he is having SMSL M8A.

Wanted to check whether anyone here has done anything?

EDIT: I'm having SMSL M8


----------



## wwmhf

Upgrading the op amp in M8A?


----------



## manukmanohar (May 30, 2018)

I am having SMSL M8. I'm asking whether anyone has done opamp upgrade here. My friend who has done SMSL M8A opamp upgrade to LME49720 , said it was huge change, for the better.


----------



## amirm

I plan to do some testing of Topping D10 with different op-amps.  Are the op-amps socketed in the M8/M8A?  If they are I can test that too.


----------



## borrego

May I know in what improvement the LME49720MAX will bring comparing to the stock  OPA1612? I checked the price of LME49720MAX and OPA1612 from Mouser, and found the OPA1612 is more than twice more expensive than the LME49720MAX. It does not make sense to me that SMSL would choose a  more expensive, but inferior opamp for the M8.


----------



## manukmanohar

borrego said:


> May I know in what improvement the LME49720MAX will bring comparing to the stock  OPA1612? I checked the price of LME49720MAX and OPA1612 from Mouser, and found the OPA1612 is more than twice more expensive than the LME49720MAX. It does not make sense to me that SMSL would choose a  more expensive, but inferior opamp for the M8.


 
I can tell you the changes my friend reported. But, I would also be really interested in hearing why LME49720MAX, in particular is supposed to improve the SQ, and how it is superior/inferior.


----------



## Ashley2001

I finally got around to fitting a new screen
for my M8 DAC.

0.91 Inch 12832 OLED LCD Display SSD1306 OLED Display I2C IIC Serial 128x32 White LCD Screen 

Purchased from AliExpress


----------



## Gonzbull

Great stuff. Thanks for the info. I just ordered one and will change mine out as well. Are they the same screen as the original?


----------



## Katji

Thanks!  Good to know. Now i can feel less concerned about mine burning out. I should probably get one now, to keep as spare.


----------



## Shredder11

Ashley2001 said:


> I finally got around to fitting a new screen
> for my M8 DAC.
> 
> 0.91 Inch 12832 OLED LCD Display SSD1306 OLED Display I2C IIC Serial 128x32 White LCD Screen
> ...



Well done!  Is this the exact screen you bought?  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-9...DIY-Module-SSD1306-Driver-IC/32793667140.html


----------



## Ashley2001 (Jun 26, 2018)

This is the screen i used the screen with the flat flex.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-9...660.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4diGCTUF

You need to be very confident with soldering to fit this or know someone who is!.


----------



## frogmeat69

Got the original M8, anyone have a link for what driver I need again?? Or just the latest XMOS driver?


----------



## fritobugger

frogmeat69 said:


> Got the original M8, anyone have a link for what driver I need again?? Or just the latest XMOS driver?



Check these on the SMSL website:

http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp?p=4

If that doesn't work, I probably have the mini-CD somewhere to copy it.


----------



## frogmeat69

fritobugger said:


> Check these on the SMSL website:
> 
> http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp?p=4
> 
> If that doesn't work, I probably have the mini-CD somewhere to copy it.


Thanks.


----------



## muscleking

i just got a Grado GH2 and listened with the SMSL m8 with the va2 amp. holy sh!at balls. bloody bright and ear piercing. 
good i have a fiio x5III and it sounds great with the Grado. i have been using the m8 and not using the va2 but using little dot mk iii instead with the p1 power supply and it's been a great combination. i just realized how bright it is and i thought grado is bright ( i know they are supposed to be a bit bright). so now i am thinking about getting a completely different dac. this m8 works beautifully with Audeze Sine (amazing headphones), so i guess that's why people call Audeze "Dark". but seriously grado + ESS9018 you cannot listen to any vocal at all. i almost sold the headphone right away thinking what quality is this (beside it feels cheaply built vs beyer t1, audeze, etc). i have a Topping NX4 DSD coming which i waited for 50 days already. damn singapore post to canada is a nightmare. maybe should file claim already on that one.


----------

