# Looking for audiophile PC speakers on a budget



## Royal Amethyst

I know that audiophile speakers that are under $400 are not really "audiophile" speakers, especially since from what I gather, having a good pair of headphones is your best bet for an audiophile experience. But well... bear with me! 
  
  Well I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 headphones that are absolutely fantastic for what I use them for, but my PC speakers are Logitech X-540 surround sound. They're good! Especially for what I got them for. But they're by no means excellent. I'm starting to realize that I have no need for surround sound on my PC, even if I intend to game with them, since I can get a similar experience from my headphones, which I will likely use to game 75% of the time anyway.
   
  So now I'm looking for some 2.1 or 5.1 (if we can find good ones for a low price) speakers for my computer. Preferably, I'd like speakers with a USB connection and a good, high-end DAC built in. I was thinking of getting a good USB DAC to help make my Sennheiser HD 598s really sing, so I figured I might as well kill two birds with one stone, right?
   
  These ones are a bit out of my price range, but I'm just going to use them as an example: Bowers & Wilkins MM-1 Active Multimedia Speakers
  http://www.amazon.com/Bowers-Wilkins-Active-Multimedia-Speakers/dp/B003R6U6HG/ref=pd_ybh_6
  They are supposedly excellent 2.0 speakers with decent bass for not having a subwoofer, and have a built in DAC with a USB connection. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but could I not then use the 3.5mm headphone jack on the speaker to plug in my HD 598s and gain the benefit of a built in DAC? Or am I going about this the wrong way?
   
  Anyway, if anyone has any good suggestions for me, I'd love to hear them. Anything you can think of under $400 would be preferable.


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> I know that audiophile speakers that are under $400 are not really "audiophile" speakers, especially since from what I gather, having a good pair of headphones is your best bet for an audiophile experience. But well... bear with me!
> Well I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 headphones that are absolutely fantastic for what I use them for, but my PC speakers are Logitech X-540 surround sound. They're good! Especially for what I got them for. But they're by no means excellent. I'm starting to realize that I have no need for surround sound on my PC, even if I intend to game with them, since I can get a similar experience from my headphones, which I will likely use to game 75% of the time anyway.
> So now I'm looking for some 2.1 or 5.1 (if we can find good ones for a low price) speakers for my computer. Preferably, I'd like speakers with a USB connection and a good, high-end DAC built in. I was thinking of getting a good USB DAC to help make my Sennheiser HD 598s really sing, so I figured I might as well kill two birds with one stone, right?
> These ones are a bit out of my price range, but I'm just going to use them as an example: Bowers & Wilkins MM-1 Active Multimedia Speakers
> ...


 
  Buy a pair of Polk Audio bookshelf speakers ($150?), Polk Audio speakers are always on sale somewhere, check the Techbargins website.
  Find a used Yamaha A/V receiver on Craigslist ($150) Yamaha receivers come with surround sound for headphones.
  Run an optical cable from the computer to the receiver.
   
  Creative Labs Titanium HD sound card ($140) and M-Audio MV40 speakers ($120).


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## Royal Amethyst

Just to clarify, you're suggesting either:

 A) Polk Audio bookshelf speakers and Yamaha A/V receiver
  or
  B) Titanium HD and M-Audio MV40 speakers
   
  Is that correct? Because at first I thought you were suggesting I get ALL of them. And also, that's sort of why I wanted speakers with a built-in USB DAC, so I can bypass needing a good sound card. Currently using an X-Fi XtremeGamer.


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Just to clarify, you're suggesting either:
> A) Polk Audio bookshelf speakers and Yamaha A/V receiver
> or
> B) Titanium HD and M-Audio MV40 speakers
> Is that correct? Because at first I thought you were suggesting I get ALL of them. And also, that's sort of why I wanted speakers with a built-in USB DAC, so I can bypass needing a good sound card. Currently using an X-Fi XtremeGamer.


 
  Yes, one combo or the other.
  The Titanium HD is better at driving headphones then the XtremeGamer.
  The Titanium HD comes with a very decent DAC (works for both headphones and speakers). So no need for a separate USB DAC
  Gaming quality (sound) will improve with the Titanium HD over the XtremeGamer.
   
  The DAC Destroyer (USB DAC) usually sells for $50 off eBay. ($90 cheaper then the Titanium HD)
   
  I'm guessing good speakers with a built-in good DAC is going to cost you.


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## Royal Amethyst

The thing is about good sound cards is that the built in DAC will usually only benefit the main output jack and not do much for any headphone jacks in the front panel of the computer connected to the sound card internally. At least, that's what I've heard. I may be confusing them with headphone amps. I just don't want to have to continuously swap out connectors in the back of my PC. Then again, Id on't want to degrade sound quality by continuously changing from one cable to jack to cable to driver, either.
   
  Okay, so let's just simplify this and worry only about PC speakers. I'll consider sound cards later. Compared to my current Logitech X-540s then, what would make excellent speakers for my PC. Any specific models?


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## Lenni

for your budget I'd get a pair of Audioengine A5+, and call it a day. they should be a significant upgrade from the Logitech's. no _high-end_ DAC necessary.


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## trog

Are u in the UK? If so i wouldn't rule out a vintage/classic combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you could nab a cheap NAD 3020 stereo amp and Monitor Audio BX2s those would offer great SQ for the $$ for PC/nearfield duties! Craiglist/Gumtree are great sources for these


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> The thing is about good sound cards is that the built in DAC will usually only benefit the main output jack and not do much for any headphone jacks in the front panel of the computer connected to the sound card internally. At least, that's what I've heard. I may be confusing them with headphone amps. I just don't want to have to continuously swap out connectors in the back of my PC. Then again, I don't want to degrade sound quality by continuously changing from one cable to jack to cable to driver, either.
> 
> Okay, so let's just simplify this and worry only about PC speakers. I'll consider sound cards later. Compared to my current Logitech X-540s then, what would make excellent speakers for my PC. Any specific models?


 
  The DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) on the sound card would be used for any analog output on a sound card, so any headphone jack (back plate or front panel output) or RCA output would use the sound card's DAC (equally).
  I'm sure just about any $100 (or more) pair of bookshelf speakers would sound better then the Logitech X-540.
  Corsair SP2500 2.1 computer speaker system sells for $190.
   
  The Creative Labs Titanium HD sound card could use it's fairly good DAC with the Corsair SP2500 and the HD598.
   
  The Asus Xonar DX (or D1) sound card (used $55) comes with a fairly decent DAC for you to plug the SP2500 into.
  But you would not plug your HD598s in to the DX or D1.
  The Corsair SP2500 comes with a headphone jack.


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## Royal Amethyst

I think I may have been confusing when I said "since I can get a similar experience from my headphones, which I will likely use to game 75% of the time anyway". I meant that 75% of the time I will use my headphones while gaming, not that 75% of the time I will be using my sound devices for gaming. While I do want my gaming to sound great, I want stuff that will sound its best for music most of all. I noticed that almost every suggestion seemed to be for sound cards or speakers with reviews saying they're for gamers first and otherwise sound muddy for other applications. Does me saying that music is my priority change any of the suggestions?


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> I think I may have been confusing when I said "since I can get a similar experience from my headphones, which I will likely use to game 75% of the time anyway". I meant that 75% of the time I will use my headphones while gaming, not that 75% of the time I will be using my sound devices for gaming. While I do want my gaming to sound great, I want stuff that will sound its best for music most of all. I noticed that almost every suggestion seemed to be for sound cards or speakers with reviews saying they're for gamers first and otherwise sound muddy for other applications. Does me saying that music is my priority change any of the suggestions?


 
  A sound card makes it easy to hook up multiable audio output devices (speakers and headphones) to one computer.
  You want a good DAC, but you also want that one DAC to end up send two separate types of analog audio out, a line-out audio signal for speakers and a headphone analog output (slightly different then a line-out signal).
  Something like the Fiio E10 ($80) is a USB DAC headphone amplifier that also has a line-out, but it's all 2-channel audio, no surround sound features.
  I think music audio quality is heald at a higher standard then gaming audio quality.
  People in general will limit their budget more for gaming audio, so the manufacturers of gaming audio know they have to keep the price low to sell lots of "gaming audio".
  So gaming audio manufacturers are limited to cheaper lower quality parts.
  Where as music lovers listen to the same song over and over again and want to improve their audio quality, which takes cash.


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## Royal Amethyst

For cheaper than a Titanium HD, I could get a newer Recon 3D Pro. Is the sound quality/DAC in that one not as good? I've heard mixed reviews.


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> For cheaper than a Titanium HD, I could get a newer Recon 3D Pro. Is the sound quality/DAC in that one not as good? I've heard mixed reviews.


 
  The Recon3Ds are not as good as the Titanium HD, audio quality wise.
  I believe the Recon3Ds come with an older audio processor then the Titanium HD
  But the regular Recon3Ds are down to $63.
  Try for a used Titanium HD on eBay.


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## elwappo99

I searched high and low for good speakers. I tried audioengine, maudio, krk rokits, and every type of logitech and creative speakers. Nothing compares to the Swan M200 speakers. Truly high level sound from these. Try to snag a pair used. 
   
  The best fit for you if you're running this from a computer is a dedicated sound card. I would strongly recommend the Asus Xonar ST. It has a POWERFUL and very good sounding headphone out, and two RCA analog outs. If you ever get a dedicated external DAC, the digital out on the ST is also top notch. The headphone out i think tops most single ended solid state amps in the < $300 range. It's got enough power to juice up my hifiman HE-6 too!


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## Royal Amethyst

Unfortunately, they don't appear to make the Swan M200's anymore. Are the Harman Kardon SoundSticks III any good?
  http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-Soundsticks-III/dp/B0042F3K9W


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## elwappo99

They definitely do
   
http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?products_id=184
   
  They've recently been updated. There are the M200MKII and brand new M200MKIII


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## Royal Amethyst

Oh wow, those look incredibly expensive for a 2.0 set of speakers. I dunno, PurpleAngel's $150 speaker ideas are starting to sound a lot nicer (to my wallet), haha.


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## elwappo99

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Oh wow, those look incredibly expensive for a 2.0 set of speakers. I dunno, PurpleAngel's $150 speaker ideas are starting to sound a lot nicer (to my wallet), haha.


 
   
   
  Haha, certainly.  You can find the M200 used on ebay for about $175 every now and then. I have a pair of polk speakers and they are clearly not in the same sound quality range. The speakers ($175) plus the Asus ST ($150) would cost a little more than the other sets. However, the Asus ST will provide you so much more functionality later when you want to upgrade other components. The headphone out will truly be more valuable down the road, and really bring out your HD598. The digital out on it is also top notch.


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## Royal Amethyst

I'm such a horrible flip flopper when it comes to price. Now I'm considering just dropping $200 on the ASUS ROG Phoebus and justifying it by saying I've keep it until I drive it into the GROUND. I know people who own Essence ST and STX's aren't impressed with it, but since I have neither, it shouldn't make a difference, right?


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> I'm such a horrible flip flopper when it comes to price. Now I'm considering just dropping $200 on the ASUS ROG Phoebus and justifying it by saying I've keep it until I drive it into the GROUND. I know people who own Essence ST and STX's aren't impressed with it, but since I have neither, it shouldn't make a difference, right?


 
  Might want to hold off from buying the Phoebus ($225) just yet, give Asus a little time for updating drivers, work out any bugs.
  The Essence STX is down to $163.


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## Lenni

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Oh wow, those look incredibly expensive for a 2.0 set of speakers. I dunno, PurpleAngel's $150 speaker ideas are starting to sound a lot nicer (to my wallet), haha.


 
  how are those looking _incredibly expensive _at $259 for the pair??? the Polk's might be $150 but they're not gonna work straight out of your pc's soundcard. they need an amp, and the Yamaha is another $150 - not counting all the cables needed. you asked for _audiophile_ speakers with a $400 budget, and I think you've been given some pretty good advices. the sad part is you'll probably end up getting the Soundsticks...


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## Royal Amethyst

Calm your butt cheeks down, Lenni. I don't make impulse buys, even on the advice of a few people. I take a lot of time to research and think, and not everyone has a lot of disposable income for their sound fetishes.
   
  PurpleAngel, I've seen the Phoebus at $199 on Newegg. I know the Essence STX is an excellent card now, but wouldn't the Phoebus be a good card in the future when the drivers are better? I really do like the Essence STX, but I don't want a card that'll age faster, you know? Which of the two has the potentially better DAC and amps and such? I know the Phoebus doesn't have swappable op-amps, but I'm not really into modding my stuff. But if price were no object (and since Essence STX and Titanium HD are around the same price), what would you suggest? Titanium HD, Essence STX, or Phoebus?
   
  This thread is starting to deviate a bit, huh. From new speakers to sound cards and DACs. Oh well. Might as well get it all now, right?

 For the sake of organization, here are the current suggestions for speakers or speaker/card/receiver combos that have been made in the thread that I'm taking under consideration:
   
*#1*
*Speakers:* Polk Audio, any bookself speakers: $150
*With:*  Yamaha A/V receiver: $150
*Total:* $300
   
*#2*
*Speakers:* M-Audio MV-4 speakers: $120
*With:* Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD sound card: $140
*Total:* $260
   
*#3*
*Speakers: *Audioengine A5+ 2.0 speakers: $399
*With:* Nothing
*Total:* $399
   
*#4*
*Speakers: *Corsair SP2500 2.1 speaker system: $190
*With:* Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD sound card: $140
*Total*: $330
   
*#5*
*Speakers: *Swan M200MkII 2.0 speaker system: $259
*With: *Nothing
*Total: *$259
   
*#6 (This one is my own combo, just for consideration)*
*Speakers: *M-Audio AV40 speakers: $120
*With: *ASUS Xonar Essence STX: $150
*Total:* $270
   
  Also, I've noticed more people seem to be suggesting 2.0 speaker systems with bass integrated into the main speaker. I was told a long time ago that having the bass so close to the rest of the sound can distort the quality of the overall sound, but I wasn't given any evidence to back that up. Is this true or not true?


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Calm your butt cheeks down, Lenni. I don't make impulse buys, even on the advice of a few people. I take a lot of time to research and think, and not everyone has a lot of disposable income for their sound fetishes.
> PurpleAngel, I've seen the Phoebus at $199 on Newegg. I know the Essence STX is an excellent card now, but wouldn't the Phoebus be a good card in the future when the drivers are better? I really do like the Essence STX, but I don't want a card that'll age faster, you know? Which of the two has the potentially better DAC and amps and such? I know the Phoebus doesn't have swappable op-amps, but I'm not really into modding my stuff. But if price were no object (and since Essence STX and Titanium HD are around the same price), what would you suggest? Titanium HD, Essence STX, or Phoebus?
> This thread is starting to deviate a bit, huh. From new speakers to sound cards and DACs. Oh well. Might as well get it all now, right?
> For the sake of organization, here are the current suggestions for speakers or speaker/card/receiver combos that have been made in the thread that I'm taking under consideration:
> ...


 
  I've been wanting to get the Phoebus for the past 6 months, just can't find any real advantages over the STX.
  Both have the same headphone amp, DACs are almost the same, Audio processors are almost the same.
  Any Dolby software written for the Phoebus should come out later for other Xonar cards.
  The control panel of the Phoebus seem to be designed to be more like the Creative Labs control panel.
  The Phoebus does have GX 3.0 (verses 2.5), but I do not think there are very many fans of the GX software.
  The Phoebus can do analog speaker 7.1, which you have no use for.
  There is a lack of really detailed reviews on the Phoebus, which says to me Asus has nothing to show off about the Phoebus.
  The Phoebus ($225) sells for around $62 more the the STX ($163).
  But if you want the Phoebus, just get it.
   
  I like Xonars better then Creative labs, but there are a lot of happy Titanium HD users out there.
   
  I would assume there are good 2.0 speaker sets that sound better the a cheap 2.1.


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## Royal Amethyst

Could you explain the GX 2.5 vs GX 3.0 thing for me? What does that do for a card? So am I to assume that the Phoebus is, for now, just a dolled-up Essence STX with the Republic of Gamers logo printed on it?
   
  I like the Titanium HD because it has the Left/Right RCA ports for my speakers AND a 3.5mm (1/8") port for headphones. I like the Essence STX because it also has the RCA ports for the speakers, and also the bigger 6.3mm (1/4") port, which my HD 598's use by default (It would be nice to remove the adapter that came with the headphones). Unfortunately the Phoebus only has 3.5mm (1/8") ports.
   
  While I'm currently leaning toward the M-Audio Stereophile AV40's, I'm still a bit concerned about the loss of a subwoofer in 2.0 channel speakers. House-pounding bass isn't exactly a necessity for me, but for audio quality, clarity, and accuracy, I have the HD 598's. I just want some desktop speakers with great sound and decent bass for when I'm somewhere else besides my computer chair, like listening to music or watching movies from my bed, or just don't want to wear headphones.
   
  Right now. I'm leaning toward the M-Audio AV40's or Audioengine A2's at $120 and $200 respectively, and then complementing them with a Titanium HD or Essence STX depending on if I can find one with a good price.


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Could you explain the GX 2.5 vs GX 3.0 thing for me? What does that do for a card? So am I to assume that the Phoebus is, for now, just a dolled-up Essence STX with the Republic of Gamers logo printed on it?
> I like the Titanium HD because it has the Left/Right RCA ports for my speakers AND a 3.5mm (1/8") port for headphones. I like the Essence STX because it also has the RCA ports for the speakers, and also the bigger 6.3mm (1/4") port, which my HD 598's use by default (It would be nice to remove the adapter that came with the headphones). Unfortunately the Phoebus only has 3.5mm (1/8") ports.
> While I'm currently leaning toward the M-Audio Stereophile AV40's, I'm still a bit concerned about the loss of a subwoofer in 2.0 channel speakers. House-pounding bass isn't exactly a necessity for me, but for audio quality, clarity, and accuracy, I have the HD 598's. I just want some desktop speakers with great sound and decent bass for when I'm somewhere else besides my computer chair, like listening to music or watching movies from my bed, or just don't want to wear headphones.
> Right now. I'm leaning toward the M-Audio AV40's or Audioengine A2's at $120 and $200 respectively, and then complementing them with a Titanium HD or Essence STX depending on if I can find one with a good price.


 
  Creative Labs has EAX 5.0, which was great for gaming audio back in the Windows XP days.
  Creative labs only licensed out the older EAX 2.0 audio to all the other sound card makers.
  Asus come out with GX 1.0 which is Asus's attempt to emulate Creative's EAX 5.0, GX has mixed resultes.
  Most Xonar card's use GX version 2.5, still having mixed resultes, have no idea what GX 3.0 offers.
  Everything I hear, game makers are not really directly support EAX much now anyway.
   
  Creative Labs fans feel that the Titanium HD EAX features, over all, Still offers better gaming support then the Xonar's.
   
  For a given price, and for a 2.1 system to include a sub-woofer, just means there is less money left over for building the speakers.
  So speaker quality is going to suffer for adding a sub-woofer.


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## elwappo99

Those A2s are very small. AV40's aren't that great either. I owned a pair of AV40s and heard the A2s. Neither stack to those Swans.


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## Royal Amethyst

Maybe I'll get the AV40's for my TV then, which also takes Left/Right RCA and currently just has the regular TV speakers. Sound good?
   
  So, Swan M200MkII's. Is theaudioinsider.com the only place you can find them? I can't seem to find them anywhere else that I usually prefer to order from, like Newegg or Amazon or even eBay. The thing is $259 for speakers alone kind of slashes my budget if I wanted a sound card too, and it seems silly to have such good speakers in an X-Fi XtremeGamer. I'm gonna really have to do some justifying for this. You guys are such a bad influence on me, haha.
   
  The Corsair SP2500's seem to be a similar price (a bit cheaper even), how are those?


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## PurpleAngel

Swan makes a cheaper pair of powered speakers the D1080 IV.


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## Royal Amethyst

First of all, I want to thank you all for being so patient with me, you guys are a real pleasure to discuss with, most other audio forums are full of jerk offs who fall into brand cliques and are ready to abuse anyone who comes in unknowledgeable or leaning toward Creative or any "popular" brand.
   
  So Are the Swan D1080 IV's still considered excellent speakers for $179? Would you notice the difference between them and the M200MkII's?


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## audio4one

*Auddessy *_Lower East Side _($250 to $200).  They sound great when the optical input is used, but need to be pulled away from the back wall or the midbass gets a little strong.


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## Royal Amethyst

Good news: I'm currently haggling on a "Buy it now or Best Offer" on eBay for an Essence STX. Got him down to $130 for a refurbished model. Gonna see if I can get it to $120.

 EDIT: The Verdict: Got to $125 before the seller stopped letting me make counter-offers. Close enough, and now it's mine! Did I get a good deal for a refurb? As I figure, a refurb is better than a used one, at least, which goes for $130+ on Amazon.


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## elwappo99

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Good news: I'm currently haggling on a "Buy it now or Best Offer" on eBay for an Essence STX. Got him down to $130 for a refurbished model. Gonna see if I can get it to $120.
> 
> EDIT: The Verdict: Got to $125 before the seller stopped letting me make counter-offers. Close enough, and now it's mine! Did I get a good deal for a refurb? As I figure, a refurb is better than a used one, at least, which goes for $130+ on Amazon.


 
   
  Definitely a good price. You're going to be totally thrilled when you get your HD598 plugged into it.


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## Royal Amethyst

Most definitely. Now I realize this is something I probably should already know since I'm kind of an owner, if not yet a _possessor_, of this sound card, but which of the ports is the one where I would like to plug headphones into to take advantage of the built-in amp?
   

   
  If I had to guess, I'd say the red/white ones on the left are the RCA ports for whatever desktop speakers I decide to get, the two larger ones in the middle are the 6.3mm (1/4") jacks for line-in and line-out, and THAT's where I'd want to plug my headphones into, yes? The far right is the digital coaxial out, right? No need for it at the moment, but good to have nonetheless.
   
  Now I think I need to order some Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven music on DVD-Audio so that I can take advantage of my new sound card's 192kHz sample rate output.  Does anyone know of any programs that'll rip DVD-Audio to 24-bit, high sample rate FLAC? I get the feeling any normal ripping software will just convert it down to standard 16-bit, 44kHz FLAC. I look forward to huge file sizes for my music.


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Most definitely. Now I realize this is something I probably should already know since I'm kind of an owner, if not yet a _possessor_, of this sound card, but which of the ports is the one where I would like to plug headphones into to take advantage of the built-in amp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The very center jack is the headphone out (just to the right of the white RCA jack).
  You can download the manual from Asus.


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## Royal Amethyst

Okay so for the moment I'm leaning toward the Swan D1080 IV speakers since someone said the M-Audio AV40's will leave me wanting. Sufficient, or should I REALLY spring for the Swan M200MkII's for $80 more?


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## Royal Amethyst

Well I got two things in the mail today. One is a cheap pair of Monoprice DJ headphones I got just because, and the other is my Essence STX. Everything sounds clear as a bell now on both my HD 598's and even pretty good on my not-as-high-quality Monoprice 8323's. Pretty glad I got both, actually. Though yes, now I do need some new speakers since I can't even plug my X-540's in anymore without converting, and even then it's just 2.1


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