# NuForce introduces $199 amp w/ headphone jack



## Jon L

Nuforce Icon-1 - the next big thing from Nuforce (in a small package)

 NuForce's bigger amps sound *real* good, so I for one hope these give the Super T amp, Trends, etc a real run for their money


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## blippster

Any updates on this?


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## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blippster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any updates on this?_

 

Check this review out with nice internal pics.

US$200 nuforce class D?


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## J.D.N

Looks great, might be just what im looking for if im in uni halls again next year. 

 Will have to see what Skylabs TNS Sweet 2 review comes out like, as they are roughly the same price.


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## LostOne.TR

What are the 2 knobs for? And how common is the RJ45 out?


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## J.D.N

One knob volume, one knob input selection. It comes with RJ45 to bannana plug cables so no need to worry about compatability.


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## CountChoculaBot

Hmm... this looks like the solid state version of the TNS Sweet I've been looking for. No longer will I have to survive on simply headphones, now I could get some bookshelves and listen to those when I'm not in the 'phone mood


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## Sovkiller

The RJ45 is the same plug use in the telephones, and faxes, that is where they messed it up IMO, a very poor choice for an output speaker out jack...the contacts on those jacks are not very good, and tend to be really poor done, why using them? I do not get it, with all the choices of the market for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ???


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## Budgie

Hold tight Count- I see from the Newforce web site, some very nice looking speakers are to be offered soon.-
Nuforce, Inc


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## CountChoculaBot

Actually I was just going to get some cheapo $50 Polk R150's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, and this doesn't sound too good...

 For optimal headphone performance, the Icon includes a discrete, high-performance headphone amplifier.

 It makes it sound as if they stuffed an el cheapo headphone amp in the unit instead of running it off the primary amp. Can anyone confirm? I notice the people in the threads linked asked this as well, but no one ever answered.


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## lobehold

Not familiar with the company since I got into hi-fi audio from headphones...

 This amp got a USB DAC also and seems the initial impressions are mainly speaker based, haven't seen any detailed review on the headphone amp + DAC.

 It looks really interesting and could possibly be the next EMU 0404 USB in terms of versatility and value (less computer audio uses, more speaker uses).

 I'll adopt a wait-n-see attitude, but from the look of things it might be better to nab one at the intro price if one has the funds to spare since it seems Nuforce is going to be backlogged for a looong time when/if the word does get out that it is indeed an amazing product like the early reviewers claimed. (if not already)


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## majid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The RJ45 is the same plug use in the telephones, and faxes, that is where they messed it up IMO, a very poor choice for an output speaker out jack...the contacts on those jacks are not very good, and tend to be really poor done, why using them? I do not get it, with all the choices of the market for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ???_

 

RJ11/RJ14 is used in phones, RJ45 is the kind used for Ethernet. Cat 5 cable (the most common variety) and connectors have to handle 100MHz signals, I would trust them far more than most of the audiophile snake oil out there. The conductors are solid, not braided. Obviously, they are limited in their ability to carry significant amps, but 802.3af Power over Ethernet (PoE) carries 12-15W DC power over these same cables. Then again, NuForce is a company run by a real engineer, not a snake oil peddler (I remember reading a profile on him in IEEE spectrum).

 You may be interested in this preview of the Icon at SonicFlare


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## n3rdling

I'm confused; how come sometimes I'll read about amps that are 100wpc that "can't drive x speakers", but then there will be some tiny 10 or 12wpc amp like this one that's driving inefficient speakers? Is that the advantage of T-amps? Would this amp be able to run a 4Ohm, 86dB loudspeaker?


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## Budgie

It's a bit complicated. A speaker that is "rated "at 8 ohms actually isn't always 8 ohms. At some frequencies some speakers can drop down to just a few ohms, like 2 or 3 (or even less in some instances), and at other freq's it can be much higher then 8 ohms. When a speaker drops to a lower resistance, it demands more current from the amplifier. If an amp can't provide that current, it is often described as not being able to drive that speaker.

 Ideally, an amp should produce twice as much power when driving 4 ohm loads as it does at 8 ohms. If you look at the specs for most amps, you will see not that many amps can do that. Thats as much a problem with the speakers design as it is with the amps design. Some speakers designs are known for being demanding loads for any amp.

 I looked for an 4 ohm power output spec for this amp, and didn't find one (thats not unusual), but if I had to guess, I would say that it can drive 4 ohm/ 86 db speakers for typical listening. But that also depends on how loud you like to listen. Before buying one I would wait for further info and reviews, or e-mail Nuforce with your question, if this is important to you. Nuforce's other amps do have a good reputation with reviewers, however.

 More info-
Loudspeaker Impedance

 more detailed info on speaker impedance and power-
Home Toys Article - Speaker Impedance, Your Amplifier And You.


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## kodreaming

Is the $199 silver one sold out or something ? 

 The only one I can add to cart is the $249 red one.


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## Phenic

I just ordered one, can't wait to try it out.


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## Headphony

This looks very interesting indeed. Very keen to see impressions on headphones performance.


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## marvin

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n3rdling* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm confused; how come sometimes I'll read about amps that are 100wpc that "can't drive x speakers", but then there will be some tiny 10 or 12wpc amp like this one that's driving inefficient speakers? Is that the advantage of T-amps? Would this amp be able to run a 4Ohm, 86dB loudspeaker?_

 

A lot depends on the listener, speakers, average listening levels, source material, amplifier to speaker impedance compatibility, distance from speaker, etc. As long as the speakers' impedance are compatible with the amplifier though, any amp will be able to run them, the only question is how loud and if you like the sound. As for sound signature preference, can't help you there, but may be able to shed some light on loudness.

 A general rule of thumb I use is to keep 18 dB of headroom over my average listening level. Why 18 dB? The vast majority of material keeps spikes below 12 dB, but an extra bit of headroom just in case something does and to giving the amp a little buffer isn't a bad idea. This can be adjusted as you see fit, though if you're want a system capable of reproducing to certain 1812 Overture recordings correctly, 40 dB or so of headroom is needed.

 In a nearfield situation (~1 m from the speaker), maximum average listening volume is 82 dB. IMHO, this is enough for the usually less rigorous applications that call for nearfield speaker usage. (Computer, desktop, etc. usage)

 In a listening room situation (~2-4 m from the speaker), maximum average listening volume is 76-79 dB. IMHO, this is questionable. I like to listen around the 85 dB range when listening for enjoyment. This setup wouldn't work for me as at 85 dB as I'd be chopping my headroom in half and risk amplifier clipping. But if you like listening at low levels, this may work.

_Assumptions and math for calculations above: Speaker sensitivity is 86 dB/Wm per speaker. Double that for pair, so assume 89 dB/Wm. Amplifier power is 12 WPC. Converted into dBW, is ~ 11 dBW. From that, full scale output is is ~ 100 dB at 1 meter. Also assuming that we want to keep 18 dB of headroom and assuming SPL drop of 3dB for every doubling of distance, referenced to 1 m._


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## BIG POPPA

I wonder how hard it would be to cram a DAC in one of these??


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## warpdriver

When is the silver one being released? I'd like to try one of these.


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## CountChoculaBot

Link has 3 or 4 reviews:
Nuforce Icon feedback

 The 6moons was pretty detailed; those speaker cables bundled don't look half bad, either.

 I'm really wanting for a good review on its headphone amp, though


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## AC1

In the comments section at the end of the 6moons Icon review:
 "We will be introducing an earphone (MSRP $79) that will sound better than anything on the market, even those headphones costing 2 to 3 x the price. The earphone is in production now "

 Huh? So how good will they be?


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## blippster

From the 6moons review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/n.../open2_big.jpg

 Would I be mistaken to say that those are 5532 op-amps?


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## CountChoculaBot

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Phenic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered one, can't wait to try it out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Keep us updated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are they going to ship yours soon or are they shipping it with everyone else (Apr 25 or something)?


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## FoolmanCool

Did they just sell out of the red ones? I'd like to get my hands on one to try out....


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## Phenic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *CountChoculaBot* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Keep us updated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are they going to ship yours soon or are they shipping it with everyone else (Apr 25 or something)?_

 

Same time as everyone else I think which is end april.


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blippster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the 6moons review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/n.../open2_big.jpg

 Would I be mistaken to say that those are 5532 op-amps?_

 

Those are Texas Instrument N5532s, yes. I see that it has a Burr-Brown PCM2706 DAC chip; I don't recall anyone here mentioning its functionality as a USB DAC, though it is listed in the 6moons review.


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## warpdriver

The preorder for the Silver Icon is open now on Amazon. Go get them!


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## Budgie

Sent an e-mail to the local Nuforce dealer - Marigo Audio- asking if he had one in stock. No response. Been over a month now. Kind a killed my interest in the product. Anyone listened to one yet?


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## AudioCats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *blippster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the 6moons review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/n.../open2_big.jpg

 Would I be mistaken to say that those are 5532 op-amps?_

 

that is what you get from a "real IEEE engineer"..... "good enough, per my calculation you will never be able to hear the difference anyway"


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AudioCats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that is what you get from a "real IEEE engineer"..... "good enough, per my calculation you will never be able to hear the difference anyway" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

More like from the marketing department, since 5532s are jellybeans (<$1 each).


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## AudioCats

this kind of amps are only targeting a small nitch market, uping the price by $10 for a pair of better sounding opamps will not reduce the sales a bit. I think it is either that "good enough" attitude, or, maybe the design is not new at all, and nobody bothered to change anything in it.


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## blippster

That's why it was rather surprising to see the 5532s in there, since everything else seems quite well designed. Might decide to try and get them swapped out once I get the unit.


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## skullguise

I've read that, in the right circuit, the 5532 does a very good job. It's been a mainstay of audio for a while, there must be something good (aside form being cheap) about it.

 I do wish, though, that they were socketed. I'd definitely try a couple LM4562's in there.

 In any case, I couldn't resist, mine's coming Tuesday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have no idea where I'd use it, I'm basically selling off my second speaker-based system due to lack of use, and lack of space TO use it. I will surely try the Icon as a USB DAC & headphone amp for late night listening....


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skullguise* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've read that, in the right circuit, the 5532 does a very good job. It's been a mainstay of audio for a while, there must be something good (aside form being cheap) about it._

 

The Benchmark DAC1's analog section was designed around the NE5532, so it can't be too awful given the proper circuit. Then again, that's what people said about the OPA2132/2134 until they became popular.


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## CountChoculaBot

Two reviews, one from a Head-Fi'er:
NuForce Icon owners / discussion thread

 Ignoring this weakness in noise floor (this is only audible if your earphones are very sensitive), on the music..
 ran a few evaluative tracks through, monty alexander's once i loved, joan baez's diamonds and rust, norah jones - new york city..
 very good! by far one of the most decent headphone outputs i've listened to. comparing to the $750 IQube headphone amp, the synergy and clarity is just as good, and soundstage's pretty impressive, no longer compressed. sheffield lab's percussion was good, it was as though my earphones suddenly was more able to push more air.. (although its armatured)


 As a bonus, Icon has a decent headphone amp. This is not a cheap trick, Icon employs a discrete circuit for the headphone amp. Again, the sound quality is very good, this is no mean feat for the headphone out of audio amps.


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## skullguise

Thanks for the info, CCBot. I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase now. Instead of it being another speaker amp I get little use from, I can possibly enjoy this regularly! Yippeee 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Whim purchases are SO fun.....


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## warpdriver

Well, I preordered one at $199. I'm not really sure what I need it for, but I might use it to replace my 0404 USB for a while as a preamp if it sounds any good.

 It doesn't ship out till April 25....can't wait to try it. I am going to see if it can run my 83dBA speakers on my desktop


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## infinitesymphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *warpdriver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I preordered one at $199. I'm not really sure what I need it for, but I might use it to replace my 0404 USB for a while as a preamp if it sounds any good._

 

It doesn't have any preamp outputs, just RJ45-style speaker-level outputs.


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## BIG POPPA

May have to buy one for the June 21st Seattle Meet.


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## warpdriver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't have any preamp outputs, just RJ45-style speaker-level outputs._

 

Yes it does. Look again






 From 6moons
  Quote:


 Before we descend into unspeakables, a quick look at what we've got. Three inputs (RCA, USB and 3.5mm stereo); RJ45 speaker outputs (RJ45-to-banana speaker cables are included), headphone output (31.25mW max output into a 32-ohm load) *and line out (to subwoofer or to convert Icon into preamp). *Low THD, linear frequency response, monster S/N ratio of 98dB. Universal 12-14V power adaptor. Mini dimensions of 6" x 4.5" x 1". Finger weight of 1 pound. Technology, damn. It just keeps shrinking. Nutz. 
 

This is why I couldn't pass it up

 What we have
 - amp
 - preamp (switchable between three sources, one digital USB, and two analog)
 - DAC
 - headphone amp (class A I believe)

 All for $199 ($250). Pretty good if it all works well. And it looks great too. Jason from Nuforce claims the amp/preamp is audiophile quality. If that is even half true, it is a great value


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## infinitesymphony

Oh, cool... I didn't even see that jack before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That does make it pretty feature-loaded for the price.


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## strid3r

Where is the best place to purchase this? Is the 199 price still available?

 Edit: Looks like the price is up to 250 in their store: Nuforce Icon (Integrated Desktop Audio Amplifier, Red Color) | Nuforce Online


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## Headphony

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *strid3r* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where is the best place to purchase this? Is the 199 price still available?_

 

The 199 USD price was a promo for the amp in silver color. It looks like the pre-order for that is closed now though. Now it's just listed as out of stock or currently unavailable. Argh. I hope they bring it back.


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## warpdriver

I checked Amazon this morning and the preorder button for the silver one is active again. Go get them now if you want one.


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## Demix500

Ah. Tempted to buy


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## skullguise

Got my red one in last night, only had a brief chance to listen using AKG K-701 phones. This could be a very nice product, based on first listen.

 Does seem nicely detailed, MAYBE on the edge of some sibilance, but did not bother me. And it may go away with time.

 It had just enough oomph to drive the K701's to decent levels, but the bass was pretty deep and well-defined. As mentioned, detail was good, meaning the top end was fairly extended. Soundstaging: quite nice, almost as good as the K701's driven by my old PS Audio GCHA (based on memory; don't have it anymore).

 FWIW, I was listening to some WAV & high quality MP3 files downloaded from Metaxas Audio; some great quality recordings, easily on par with or better than Chesky IMO.

 Only had about 1/2 hour of time, but this looks real promising, even as a headphone amp (no speaker listening yet). Won't have much time over the next couple nights to listen too much, but hope to get a little time in here and there.

 Not sure if the future orders will be at $250 or the $200, but in either case I think this is likely well worth it, especially given the flexibility mentioned in this thread.


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## Demix500

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skullguise* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my red one in last night, only had a brief chance to listen using AKG K-701 phones. This could be a very nice product, based on first listen.

 Does seem nicely detailed, MAYBE on the edge of some sibilance, but did not bother me. And it may go away with time.

 It had just enough oomph to drive the K701's to decent levels, but the bass was pretty deep and well-defined. As mentioned, detail was good, meaning the top end was fairly extended. Soundstaging: quite nice, almost as good as the K701's driven by my old PS Audio GCHA (based on memory; don't have it anymore).

 FWIW, I was listening to some WAV & high quality MP3 files downloaded from Metaxas Audio; some great quality recordings, easily on par with or better than Chesky IMO.

 Only had about 1/2 hour of time, but this looks real promising, even as a headphone amp (no speaker listening yet). Won't have much time over the next couple nights to listen too much, but hope to get a little time in here and there.

 Not sure if the future orders will be at $250 or the $200, but in either case I think this is likely well worth it, especially given the flexibility mentioned in this thread._

 

Thanks. Ordered a silver one~


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## warpdriver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skullguise* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my red one in last night, only had a brief chance to listen using AKG K-701 phones. This could be a very nice product, based on first listen._

 

thanks for the impression. Seems like a no-lose situation to try this product


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## feverfive

Any of you care to give advice/opinion?

 1. Could this little amp drive a pair of Monitor Audio RS1's (sensitivity rated @ 90dB)?

 2. How exactly should one connect this amp to an Apogee Duet? I have no clue which connector from the Duet break-out cable to use...or even if it can be connected to the Duet.

 Yes, I am a newb...


 EDIT: Given the RJ45 speaker outs on the Icon, how could I bi-wire the RS1's? Is that a stupid question?


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## Demix500

ended up ordering. Preorder isn't shipping until may 20-25th though =\.


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## Ernie II

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *infinitesymphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It doesn't have any preamp outputs, just RJ45-style speaker-level outputs._

 

Oh yes it does. (Sorry for the repeat message...)


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## infinitesymphony

I'm just not used to seeing preamp outputs in 1/8" stereo form factor, and it's listed as "Line Out (for Subwoofer) connection" in the specs, so technically, there was a slim chance it could have been mono. But NuForce confirms otherwise in this blurb:

  Quote:


 For operation as an audiophile-grade preamplifier, the Icon’s linestage can be connected to a power amp or active speakers.


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## Darthfunk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Any of you care to give advice/opinion?

 1. Could this little amp drive a pair of Monitor Audio RS1's (sensitivity rated @ 90dB)?

 2. How exactly should one connect this amp to an Apogee Duet? I have no clue which connector from the Duet break-out cable to use...or even if it can be connected to the Duet.

 Yes, I am a newb...


 EDIT: Given the RJ45 speaker outs on the Icon, how could I bi-wire the RS1's? Is that a stupid question?_

 

1) Yes it can drive without breaking a sweat. The soon to be release NuForce S-1 are rated at 87db. 

 2) Use the line out of the Duet and connect it into the Icon line in.


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## FoolmanCool

Kind of excited about these.....website says they're going on sale this coming 4-25


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## feverfive

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Darthfunk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) Yes it can drive without breaking a sweat. The soon to be release NuForce S-1 are rated at 87db. 

 2) Use the line out of the Duet and connect it into the Icon line in._

 

I ended up totally switching my desired setup & canceled my Icon pre-order, and I even decided not to get the Monitor Audios since it would be such a hassle to get a pair (no local dealers). I ordered a Music Hall A25.2 integrated amp (which should be here late this coming week), an x-sub from AV123 & am still pondering what bookshelfs to buy (Paradigm Atoms or ELT525's from AVV123)... I might end up re-ordering the Icon this summer so I can have a decent work office setup...


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## Darthfunk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ended up totally switching my desired setup & canceled my Icon pre-order, and I even decided not to get the Monitor Audios since it would be such a hassle to get a pair (no local dealers). I ordered a Music Hall A25.2 integrated amp (which should be here late this coming week), an x-sub from AV123 & am still pondering what bookshelfs to buy (Paradigm Atoms or ELT525's from AVV123)... I might end up re-ordering the Icon this summer so I can have a decent work office setup..._

 

Enjoy your new set up. 

 The NuForce Icon and S-1 (out end May) for your office set up would fit in nicely.


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## Demix500

yup. I also canceled my pre-order as I have a pico preorder to pay for. ended up going the powered speaker route (pair of 15 year old yamaha ms20s lol) =\


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## skullguise

Update on my unit....still haven't had a ton of time to listen, but found a nice synergy apparently with MS-2i's. Pretty even top to bottom. I think there's a SLIGHT midrange reticence with the NuForce, but what's there seems pretty accurate. It may actually be the standout bass that accentuates this, too.

 I just made up some Cat 5e 12ft cables to try out with speakers, hope to get a little time in tonight with that.

 I also ordered a regulated Pyramid PS for this, overkill at variable voltage output (6-15V, Icon can take up to 15V) and 20amp. Be curious to see what kind of improvements it yields.

 Last FYI: there is a reported issue with the USB functionality on the first batch, it loses the signal in some on/off situations. Minor nuisance, but I also read that NuForce is sending new boards out to owners.

 If you bought it from NuForce, they should send the new one out automatically. If you bought from a dealer, touch base with them. I don't believe they're asking for the old boards back. This is from the Icon Forum off their website.

 Sorry I don't have more to report, I'm sure many of you are hoping for in-depth reviews. Life just gets in the way of fun sometimes!


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## Darthfunk

Fyi, there is whole load of Icon accessories coming out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Check out audiocircle

 You can also your response at the official Nuforce forum
nuforce.com, nuforce-icon.com &bull; View topic - Icon features and accessory wish list

 Premium 2 meters Icon speaker cable (Cat 6, 15 micron gold plated contacts). 
 [Edited by Jason - RJ45 coupler removed from the package since you can buy it for cheap in your local computer store]
 MSRP $29.95 [Price updated]
 (available for sale April 29)


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## skullguise

Thanks, Darthfunk, interesting news. I made up some 12ft cables, it was Cat 5e and each of the conductors was stranded (I was a little surprised). Going to get some solid core at work and make another pair, maybe 8ft, to try.

 But listened to some Cowboy Junkies and Einsturzende Neubauten last night, and even this simpler DIY 12ft pair allowed some decent sounds. I drove my Silverline Preludes to some good volumes before getting the formal complaint from the better half. I have a small room, though, so it's easy to fill.

 Sound-wise, still thinking it's pretty nice. Again, the mids seem very neutral, bass was good and tight, and highs seemed pretty extended, with no seeming harshness whatsoever. Still bettered for overall sound and emotion conveyed by my DIY Hypex integrated, but very good on its own.

 I may get a very small set of speakers and make this a desktop amp, to sometimes use with eadphones as well. Thinking along the lines of Totem Mite, Silverline Minuet, Usher S-520, AV123 ELT525, etc. Should be quite nice!


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## warpdriver

I just got my silver model. Trying out the amp now with my NHT Classic 3 speakers. Very nice sound, hard to believe it's so tiny and it packs a good punch (enough to fill a small room)


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## skullguise

Congrats, Warpdriver...glad you like already. It's not an end-all by any stretch, but all that it does, for so little money relatively, is amazing.

 I just got the replacement board today, but won't have much time until after the weekend to install it and listen.

 The nice part is, I can try and re-case the old board and have 2 amps for the price of one! I have a new power supply for the main one I use, a nice Pyramid 15V 22 amp regulated PS. NuForce won't sell me an empty case, I understand why. 

 But if I can get it cased myself, it could be a nice secondary system. I thought I had a nice little Koa wood case from Hawaii, but can't find it....oh, well, plenty more choices.


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## warpdriver

I actually didn't have a reason to buy one....I was just curious how well this thing would work....

 but since my 0404 USB is frustratingly unstable under Vista, I plan to retire the Emu. So now I'm actually planning on just using the Icon as a USB DAC and switchbox/preamp for my Dynaudio powered speakers. 

 I was very impressed how well it performed with my $900/pr NHT acoustic suspension speakers. I had to have the volume knob pretty high up, but it was able to fill the room with clean sound.


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## shaizada

I just picked one up from Amazon.com. Also purchased a set of Usher Be-718 bookshelf speakers so hopefully this setup would sound like I am imagining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, I think I will use the icon as a preamp feeding monarchy monoblocks into the Ushers. I might even experiment with the Predator as a source....should be fun! Wonder if it might actually outperform my current speaker rig. Can't wait to see.

 ~G


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## jaredy

warpdrive I would appreciate some thoughts on the Icon as a DAC. I have an emu0404 usb and got this to try out for kicks. I do plan to eventually get some speakers setup with it. Anything you have to say would be appreciated. Mine should ship out in 2 weeks.


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## warpdriver

My quick and dirty trial so far reveals that it's not as good as my 0404 USB nor my Micro DAC, but you know what, it's (surprisingly) very enjoyable. The output of the Icon is very quiet, and for most purposes, my Dynaudios still sound extremely tuneful out of the Icon as a DAC/Preamp, maybe a weeeee bit more ragged in the highs. Still amazing what how well made and how much it offers for the price. So far, I think it's a keeper. 

 I might use it as a preamp with my Micro DAC driving it.


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## jung

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *feverfive* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Given the RJ45 speaker outs on the Icon, how could I bi-wire the RS1's?_

 

You have to do it yourself to make biwire cables for it. Too bad it does not have standard binding posts to take bare wires. BTW, do banana plugs work on EU binding posts? The center hole is plugged by plastics.

 And anyone compared Icon with Tripath amps, Sonic, Trends, KingRex, ...?


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## gz76

Usually if there's a plastic plug in the end of your speaker post, you can remove it to fit a banana plug.


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## jung

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *warpdriver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My quick and dirty trial so far reveals that it's not as good as my 0404 USB nor my Micro DAC_

 

How do the built in headphone amps compare, the one in NuForce Icon vs the one in E-MU 0404 USB?


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## TheAnomaly

2 questions about this bad boy:

 1. how does the headphone amp compare to other, similar cost stand-alone headphone amps? i need to upgrade from the TC-7510's built in headphone amp, and if this unit does a better job of it then that would be the deciding factor in Icon vs competing T-amps.

 2. to those who've heard both, how would it compare to a similar cost Onkyo integrated (TX-8211) in terms of amp performance (small space)? i'm not so concerned about either amp's ability to fill the space as much as i am interested in the sound quality.


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## warpdriver

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jung* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do the built in headphone amps compare, the one in NuForce Icon vs the one in E-MU 0404 USB?_

 

I can't say for sure since I've always used the EMU as a DAC also, which is superb IMO. The headphone amp in the Icon is quite fine overall, I would put it somewhere between the Bithead and Micro amp that I own. The bass is decent but not as strong as my Micro, the highs are a bit polite sometimes.

 Having said that, I'm probably going to shelf the Icon for future use because I'm going back to my Headroom stuff as my preamp. My Headroom Micro stack is superior as a headphone amp and a preamp but it should be at 3-4X the price.


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## jojoarmani

I wonder how it compares with the Pico?


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## skullguise

To my ears, the Icon is a really nice piece - for the price. In absolute terms, it's not the end-all in sound quality. But what it offers and does for $200-250 is great!

 I have had mine for a while, and got the "rev2" board as well. I loaned my rev1 board version to someone to play with for a while.

 It benefits from a better power supply; I overkilled it with a Pyramid 6-15V 25 amp 200 watt unit! Definitely increased bass quality and depth.

 The mids on this are pretty good, fairly neutral IMO. Not as good as my Hypex-baaed integrated, but still strong.

 The highs have been a matter of discussion. I'm feeling there is some speaker interaction going on, given various impressions I've read and what I've personally experienced. 

 The person to whom I loaned my rev1 unit posted there were no highs (obvious exageration, but his point made). I have seeme dot find the highs can vary with the speakers used. They seem to go pretty high up, but can be a little "artifical" sounding. Not so much dry, not etched; but not that great combination of smooth and air I hear from other equipment, or from some live acoustic music I've heard.

 I drove the rev1 unit from a computer when I first got it. The USD section is fine, again not great IMO (there were some issues qwith USB connectivity in rev1). It MAY have been burnin, but I thought the RCA line in did a better job sound-wise than USB in; and I was playing well-recorded WAV files for computer music.

 The headphone amp is very good. It had just enough oomph to drive my AKG701's to comfy levels, though they didn't shine their best with the Icon. I have been listening more to my Alessandro MS-2i's with C-Pads through my Icon rev2 (using RCA in), and that has been very enjoyable. Still some of that artifical high frequencies, but very enjoyable still.

 I haven't done a head-to-head comparison of the Icon to the Pico, but my SENSE is the Pico is better. It sems to have top-to-bottom balance a little more even, with better highs, and better pinpoint imaging within the headphone soundstage. Perhaps a little better focus/transparency, the ease of picking out specific notes/sounds.

 But the Pico is at work, the Icon at home.

 I've perhaps been a little harsh on the Icon, but again, I'm judging on absolute terms. It is an amazing little amp IMO, and one that gets very good audio quality for not a lot of $. Combine that with the functionality it has, it's a great piece. I'm in no rush at all to sell mine!


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## jojoarmani

Thanks for the feedback on the Nuforce, skullguise. Sounds like another happy customer. I'll take it into consideration but i am still on the learning curve and still shopping... 

 Spending half a grand for a Pico seems insane for me at this point.


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## slwiser

Icon makes a great companion to a Stax adapter box like the SRD-7 Pro.


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## jojoarmani

What does it sound like on Sennheiser HD 495 or Bose 2.1 companion III? Would i be busting heads???


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## Darthfunk

Hey guys manage to audition the S-1 for a few days before having to pack them up to return to the distributor. Now awaiting for my very own pair of S-1 (black/red). Anyway here is my Mini review on the S-1. 

NuForce S-1

 Cheers!


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## HeadphoneAddict

Well, I continue to be impressed by the Nuforce Icon, and it seems that it would take an minor act of God to get me to part with it. Just wanted to get that off my chest. 

 Thanks for the nice review of the S-1. I would love to know more about the inner workings of the S-1 audio cable in how it tells the NuForce Icon to turn on EQ. I'd also love to see a high end (cryo or silver) speaker cable with EJ45 plug on one end and a banana plug on the other for use with ANY speakers. Cheers!


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## ExtraNice

oh man! This looks pretty good, a bit less cheaper than the Compass and looks better!!!
 Although I'm skeptical about the ports, and it seems like the internals are a different design to the Compass.
 Decisions, decisions. Does anybody know which one works better as a DAC and Amp?


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## orthikon

anyone using the line out to active speakers? impressions? 

 comparisons to other DACs with line outs fed to active speakers?


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## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *orthikon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone using the line out to active speakers? impressions? 

 comparisons to other DACs with line outs fed to active speakers?_

 

I use the line out (actually preamp out and volume controlled) to drive another amp, and it works fine. It's very clean and transparent without mucking up the sound. And, the DAC is at least as good and detailed as that on many of the top portable amps I have tried like 3MOVE, Predator and XM5. This would be a great dac amp for what you are asking about. You can hook it up to a computer, an MP3 player and a CD player or other RCA out device, and output preamp to powered speakers, the 12 watt out to non-powered speakers or stax transformer (like me) and still plug in a headphone to the front which cuts off the 12 watt speakers but doesn't affect the pre-amp out (which can run a sub or powered speakers).


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