# "Headphone Amplifier With DAC" - iPhone Lightning to Headphone Jack



## Scotty141

I'm not an audiophile and have no idea about terminology, so apologies for the title if it's incorrect.
  
 However, I found this online after some random searching on the Internet and was wondering what you guys thought of it, since you all seem to know your audio jargon. It's in Japanese so *here* is the translation link.
  

  

 This is what it looks like, and it seems to look pretty good if it'll let me use my soon-to-arrive CIEMs with my iPhone 6 to listen to my lossless tracks at the highest quality.
  
 It doesn't seem to be on any 'well known' website, but what do you all think?


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## Mooses9

Well it uses a wolfson dac so thats somewhat impressive. Obviously without having one in front of me its hard to say what the sound quality is going to be like.

But basicly its taking the line out from the ipod then its feeding the signal into the internal dac and amp inside the little box thus giving you sound.

Thats how it works basicly but i cannot connect on how it sounds though it is interesting.


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## Scotty141

mooses9 said:


> Well it uses a wolfson dac so thats somewhat impressive. Obviously without having one in front of me its hard to say what the sound quality is going to be like.
> 
> But basicly its taking the line out from the ipod then its feeding the signal into the internal dac and amp inside the little box thus giving you sound.
> 
> Thats how it works basicly but i cannot connect on how it sounds though it is interesting.


 

 Thanks for the information, and I appreciate you using layman's terms.
  
 Is this something you think would be worth trying out? I'm a little concerned about it only being available on these somewhat dodgy looking websites...


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## Mooses9

def dodgy, i donno its your call, its a interesting concept but not sure how it would sound, or if it would be worth buying.


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## Scotty141

I looked into it further. Managed to find the official website and it looks much more legitimate from here. It also notes some statistics about output in mW and Ohms, along with some 'S / N ratio' - which none makes sense to me. Does this make any sense to anybody?
  

Maximum output50mW (16Ω 10% distortion) 30mW (32Ω 10% distortion)Frequency characteristic20 [Hz] ~20 {KHz], 0 [dB] / - 0.5 [dB]S / N ratio97dB (JIS-A)THD + N0.07%Corresponding number of bits / sampling rateMaximum 16bit / 96kHzInput terminalLightning connectorOutput terminalφ3.5mm stereo mini jackMassAbout 12gCable length 
  
 Information about the product itself says:
  


> *▶ 4 times clear sound quality*
> Output from the iPhone of 3.5mm jack Than the sound that is, the sound output through the product, since the improved S / N ratio, can be reproduced four times clear sound.
> 
> *▶ high-quality DAC · AMP equipped*
> ...


 
  
 It seems pretty good to me! I contacted them (using some terrible Google Translated Japanese) asking them where I can buy it from officially, since I didn't see a way to buy anything from their website. If anyone knows Japanese, it would be great to know where I can buy it from?


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## Mooses9

Yeah it doesnt seem bad the specs seem pretty legit for what it is. Mw seems good has a wolfson dac. Pretty interesting imo


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## Scotty141

mooses9 said:


> Yeah it doesnt seem bad the specs seem pretty legit for what it is. Mw seems good has a wolfson dac. Pretty interesting imo


 

 Thanks very much for the help!
  
 I got a reply from the manufacturer. Unfortunately they don't sell their products outside of Japan... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hopefully I'll get my hands on one in the future


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## Peeko2

I've heard nothing but good things about the Wolfson chip, really interested in seeing someone review this from head-fi


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## StanD

Wolfson makes more than one chip, there's no guarantee that they are all so wonderful. Also it is now 2015 and the landscape of DAC chips has changed, there are a number of excellent DAC chips available. It is easy to use an excellent DAC chip and get miserable results due to either a poor design or layout/construction. I wouldn't generalize that Wolfson is the endall.


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## DrSheep

Trust me on this, but I urge you to spend a bit more to get a good DAC/AMP and be done with it instead of sucked into the endless upgrade route, especially since you are already into CIEMs.  As of now you can get one of the best DAC/AMP that does EVERYTHING for only $200 with the CEntrance Skyn, and this is the one I would get if I am still using my iPhone.
  
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/hifi-skyn-audiophile-iphone-case-now-with-tidal
  
 Update: just read your link and the device is already $150, totally not worth it.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Trust me on this, but I urge you to spend a bit more to get a good DAC/AMP and be done with it instead of sucked into the endless upgrade route, especially since you are already into CIEMs.  As of now you can get one of the best DAC/AMP that does EVERYTHING for only $200 with the CEntrance Skyn, and this is the one I would get if I am still using my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Just read this... Thanks for the information! That case looks very interesting, but can't help thinking it's too long? I can't imagine putting that up to my face, or using it well. I think I'd rather get an external DAC and clip it to the back. I just ordered my Mophie case that set me back $120... Is there any external DACs around $200 you'd suggest? Or am I actually getting more bang for my buck by ordering that Skyn case - since it's worth $400?


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> drsheep said:
> 
> 
> > Trust me on this, but I urge you to spend a bit more to get a good DAC/AMP and be done with it instead of sucked into the endless upgrade route, especially since you are already into CIEMs.  As of now you can get one of the best DAC/AMP that does EVERYTHING for only $200 with the CEntrance Skyn, and this is the one I would get if I am still using my iPhone.
> ...


 
  
 Trust me on this, if you get cheap stuff now and try to rig it, you will get sucked into the endless upgrade path with no end.  At $200, no DAC/AMP out there come close to the Skyn.  The cheapest one used to be the Sony PHA-1 at $350, but it is NO WHERE near what the Skyn can do.  The other Head-Fi'ers might try to push you on FiiO or whatever, but SQ/Price/Function wise the Skyn wins hands down.  Remember, I cannot recall a single DAC/AMP at the $200 range that is Apple certified, and most others required CCK and what not with no upscan or native hi-res support.  Remember that the Skyn IS a $400 DAC/AMP discounted to $200, and not a cheap DAC/AMP priced at $200.


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## DrSheep

FYI, the other integrated solution is from VentureCraft with their Go-DAP line of DAC/AMP with BB5 case, but that's over $700 and does less than the Skyn.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Trust me on this, if you get cheap stuff now and try to rig it, you will get sucked into the endless upgrade path with no end.  At $200, no DAC/AMP out there come close to the Skyn.  The cheapest one used to be the Sony PHA-1 at $350, but it is NO WHERE near what the Skyn can do.  The other Head-Fi'ers might try to push you on FiiO or whatever, but SQ/Price/Function wise the Skyn wins hands down.  Remember, I cannot recall a single DAC/AMP at the $200 range that is Apple certified, and most others required CCK and what not with no upscan or native hi-res support.  Remember that the Skyn IS a $400 DAC/AMP discounted to $200, and not a cheap DAC/AMP priced at $200.


 
  
  


drsheep said:


> FYI, the other integrated solution is from VentureCraft with their Go-DAP line of DAC/AMP with BB5 case, but that's over $700 and does less than the Skyn.


 
  
 How is CEntrance able to do the Skyn for so cheap then? How do they turn a profit? Especially since it also has a battery. - please excuse the ignorance, I know barely anything in this sector


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> How is CEntrance able to do the Skyn for so cheap then? How do they turn a profit? Especially since it also has a battery. - please excuse the ignorance, I know barely anything in this sector


 
 The Skyn isn't just a regular Indiegogo project, and Mike (CEntrance CEO) have said before that it will be on the market no matter what.  Of course I don't know how he runs his business, but CEntrance is one of the few companies here that cloud source their design.


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## StanD

Apple certification means little. They used to license USB connectivity, however, they no longer have a proprietary USB connection.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> The Skyn isn't just a regular Indiegogo project, and Mike (CEntrance CEO) have said before that it will be on the market no matter what.  Of course I don't know how he runs his business, but CEntrance is one of the few companies here that cloud source their design.


 

 Ok, thanks for letting me know! Do you personally think an external DAC is needed? I've read (though I don't understand the details) that the internal DAC in the iPhone 6 is quite good? When I get them, they'll be my first pair of CIEMs (ear impressions currently delayed in the mail) - so is an external DAC necessary? What's your opinion?


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Apple certification means little. They used to license USB connectivity, however, they no longer have a proprietary USB connection.


 

 So are you for or against the Skyn? Would you recommend something else?


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> So are you for or against the Skyn? Would you recommend something else?


 
 Although it looks to have many functions that are nicely packaged, however, my issue would be that when you upgrade your phone you will have to dispose of a $400 gadget that can no longer fit your new phone. It doesn't look to have a means to be connected to anything else.
 I have a FiiO E18 which sounds very good, however, some folks get some brief interference when the phone switches cell towers. I don't sandwich devices so I don't get any. My critical listening occurs at home with open back cans using desktop DACs and Amps. There's too much noise and discomfort when traveling to fully leverage superb kit. IMO, under those conditions a better grade of Bluetooth can with remote media controls and ANC might be more beneficial. Yes at home that might be considered sacrilege.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Although it looks to have many functions that are nicely packaged, however, my issue would be that when you upgrade your phone you will have to dispose of a $400 gadget that can no longer fit your new phone. It doesn't look to have a means to be connected to anything else.
> I have a FiiO E18 which sounds very good, however, some folks get some brief interference when the phone switches cell towers. I don't sandwich devices so I don't get any. My critical listening occurs at home with open back cans using desktop DACs and Amps. There's too much noise and discomfort when traveling to fully leverage superb kit. IMO, under those conditions a better grade of Bluetooth can with remote media controls and ANC might be more beneficial. Yes at home that might be considered sacrilege.


 

 Very good point about the Skyn... didn't think about that...
  
 The FiiO E18 seems to have good reviews (5*'s) but it's only £120? That sounds very good to me and I'd be more than happy to purchase it but DrSheep stated that it'd be worthless to get something under $200 ( £120 = $180).
  
 Do you not agree with DrSheep then? Does a cheap DAC work just as fine as an expensive one? Or is an expensive one simply not needed? Bearing in mind this would be my first set of CIEMs and first DAC...


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Very good point about the Skyn... didn't think about that...
> 
> The FiiO E18 seems to have good reviews (5*'s) but it's only £120? That sounds very good to me and I'd be more than happy to purchase it but DrSheep stated that it'd be worthless to get something under $200 ( £120 = $180).
> 
> Do you not agree with DrSheep then? Does a cheap DAC work just as fine as an expensive one? Or is an expensive one simply not needed? Bearing in mind this would be my first set of CIEMs and first DAC...


 
 Once one hits a certain level of performance, the diffferences are not overly distinguishable nor Earth shattering, especially in a portable setting. IMO the biggest or most notable differences are in IEMs and cans. Of course there are cheap DACs that are miserable and to be avaoided at all cost.
 Not sure if you mentioned, but which IEMs are you interested in?


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Once one hits a certain level of performance, the diffferences are not overly distinguishable nor Earth shattering, especially in a portable setting. IMO the biggest or most notable differences are in IEMs and cans. Of course there are cheap DACs that are miserable and to be avaoided at all cost.
> Not sure if you mentioned, but which IEMs are you interested in?


 

 Ah ok, thanks for letting me know.
  
 I've already ordered them, from the 'thou-shall-not-be-named' company (I already got told off for mentioning them before). It was rather a spur-of-the-moment purchase because it was Black Friday and they had a sale on, but I think I made a good choice with their 10 driver model. I sent off the ear impressions mid-December via Royal Mail (bad choice...) and it's currently in Chengdu International Airport, but it's been there for 10 days so far so just got to wait it out. Apparently China's experiencing major delays... Wish I sent via UPS now but oh well.
  
 I digress... 10 driver CIEMs, I'm guessing you know from which company I'm on about? Not sure if the 10 drivers will have any affect on which DAC I need?


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## DrSheep

Upgrade from 5/5S to 6/6+ for the Skyn is only $200.  And the FiiO E18 (and pretty much all other FiiO's) are not Apple certified, and CCK to an Andriod DAC is not 100% due to iOS update.  And why on earth would someone told you off on mentioning the CIEM company?


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## StanD

drsheep said:


> Upgrade from 5/5S to 6/6+ for the Skyn is only $200.  And the FiiO E18 (and pretty much all other FiiO's) are not Apple certified, and CCK to an Andriod DAC is not 100% due to iOS update.  And why on earth would someone told you off on mentioning the CIEM company?


 
 Apple certification for USB Audio means nothing anymore with iOS 7, actually they fixed that in one of the later versions of iOS 6. They now follow USB Audio Specs. My iTouch 5G works perfectly with 3 different DACs that I own that are not Apple certified.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> And why on earth would someone told you off on mentioning the CIEM company?


 
  
 A moderator took my post down (when I was asking for advice about the CIEMs in question) because he claimed they tried to self promote on the site, and now no one can talk about them...


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Apple certification for USB Audio means nothing anymore with iOS 7, actually they fixed that in one of the later versions of iOS 6. They now follow USB Audio Specs. My iTouch 5G works perfectly with 3 different DACs that I own that are not Apple certified.


 
  
 Looks like you and DrSheep have a difference in opinion... but does my 10 driver CIEM need any specific DAC? I don't know if they need any more power or anything? Will your FiiO E18 work with them for example?
  
 Some specs of the CIEMs, not sure if they make any difference?:
  
 · Noise Isolation: -26dB
 · Impedance: 26 Ω


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Looks like you and DrSheep have a difference in opinion... but does my 10 driver CIEM need any specific DAC? I don't know if they need any more power or anything? Will your FiiO E18 work with them for example?
> 
> Some specs of the CIEMs, not sure if they make any difference?:
> 
> ...


 
 I do not know of any IEM that requires an unusual amount of power. Do you also have the sensitivity spec handy? I doubt that they require a specific DAC, that shouldn't be the case.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> I do not know of any IEM that requires an unusual amount of power. Do you also have the sensitivity spec handy? I doubt that they require a specific DAC, that shouldn't be the case.


 

 Not to hand, but I could contact them and find out if it's important?


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Not to hand, but I could contact them and find out if it's important?


 
 Have you noticed any issues with driving them? They get loud enough with your current setups?


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Have you noticed any issues with driving them? They get loud enough with your current setups?


 

 I don't have them at the moment. Currently waiting for the ear impressions to arrive for them to manufacture them


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## DrSheep

Without knowing more about your CIEM is hard to recommend options, but in general it is more important to have a good pair of IEMs vs. DAC/AMP.  Choice of amp will depends on how well your CIEM respond to amping and at what freq range.


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## StanD

drsheep said:


> Without knowing more about your CIEM is hard to recommend options, but in general it is more important to have a good pair of IEMs vs. DAC/AMP.  Choice of amp will depends on how well your CIEM respond to amping and at what freq range.


 
 Any decent amp should have a flat FR across the audio spectrum. Usually with IEMs power is not an issue but gain and noise are important. Distortion should not be an issue, unless it's a lousy amp. Transducers almost always have distortion levels that are higher than amps.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Without knowing more about your CIEM is hard to recommend options, but in general it is more important to have a good pair of IEMs vs. DAC/AMP.  Choice of amp will depends on how well your CIEM respond to amping and at what freq range.


 
  
 Perhaps this might help? It's not the official website so hopefully I can get away with it... (mods: sorry if it's not okay). If you go down to 'Additional Information' it has some tech specs, but not many. If you tell me what information I need, I can easily contact them and ask for it!


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> Perhaps this might help? It's not the official website so hopefully I can get away with it... (mods: sorry if it's not okay). If you go down to 'Additional Information' it has some tech specs, but not many. If you tell me what information I need, I can easily contact them and ask for it!


 
 Sigh... I wish you have gone with the Noble Kaiser 10 instead, as your CIEM company is know to have crossover network design issue with their IEMs in the past.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Sigh... I wish you have gone with the Noble Kaiser 10 instead, as your CIEM company is know to have crossover network design issue with their IEMs in the past.


 

 Honestly, I wish you hadn't told me about that... Now I do wish I had. It was a rash decision to go with that company, I didn't have much time to think about it and I thought it was good for the price when it was on sale. Nonetheless the money's been paid and the impressions are almost there after over a month of waiting. The two companies do in fact look very similar?....
  
 Also, what does you mean by "crossover network design issue"? What does this mean in layman's terms? Should I be concerned?


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> Honestly, I wish you hadn't told me about that... Now I do wish I had. It was a rash decision to go with that company, I didn't have much time to think about it and I thought it was good for the price when it was on sale. Nonetheless the money's been paid and the impressions are almost there after over a month of waiting. The two companies do in fact look very similar?....
> 
> Also, what does you mean by "crossover network design issue"? What does this mean in layman's terms? Should I be concerned?


 
 http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/10/heir-audio-4ai.html
  
 Read the con section.  I know this is for a different IEM in the past, so who knows if they have learned since (but I wouldn't count on it.)  When you have to link multiple BAs for an IEM with each BA responsible for different frequency range, you need to design a network to correctly link the BAs together, and hence the "crossover network" when sound crossing from one freq range to the next.  In fact, Dr. John Moulton started Heir then moved onto creating Noble (you can look the background up here if you want.)  And let just say that I trust Noble much more than the other company.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/10/heir-audio-4ai.html
> 
> Read the con section.  I know this is for a different IEM in the past, so who knows if they have learned since (but I wouldn't count on it.)  When you have to link multiple BAs for an IEM with each BA responsible for different frequency range, you need to design a network to correctly link the BAs together, and hence the "crossover network" when sound crossing from one freq range to the next.  In fact, Dr. John Moulton started Heir then moved onto creating Noble (you can look the background up here if you want.)  And let just say that I trust Noble much more than the other company.


 
  
 Interesting information... Hopefully they've sorted things out... Could you let me know what a "BA" is please?
  
 And yes, admittedly Noble looks much more trustworthy, if one were to judge a book by its cover (or website). Hopefully it's just the quality of the website that's lacking, not the actual CIEMs themselves... I've read only good reviews for the company so fingers crossed, all is good.
  
 I read several pages of that link you sent me, and not sure why he actually left, is there a concrete reason? or is it all just speculation?


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> Interesting information... Hopefully they've sorted things out... Could you let me know what a "BA" is please?
> 
> And yes, admittedly Noble looks much more trustworthy, if one were to judge a book by its cover (or website). Hopefully it's just the quality of the website that's lacking, not the actual CIEMs themselves... I've read only good reviews for the company so fingers crossed, all is good.
> 
> I read several pages of that link you sent me, and not sure why he actually left, is there a concrete reason? or is it all just speculation?


 
 BA = Balanced Armature.
  
 Just think about it, if you built your own company from the ground up, then along the way your partners forced you out, then how would you feel?  Of course we will never know the details as an outsider, but I think this is a pretty key factor on judging the two companies.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> BA = Balanced Armature.
> 
> Just think about it, if you built your own company from the ground up, then along the way your partners forced you out, then how would you feel?  Of course we will never know the details as an outsider, but I think this is a pretty key factor on judging the two companies.


 
  
 Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Obviously there's some reasoning behind their actions, I assume they disagreed on something somewhere. But I agree with what you're saying.
  
 Back to the DACs, StanD suggested the FiiO E18. What would you suggest? (not majorly expensive if possible). I've looked online but many articles are outdated or forums being 500 pages long; and I'd rather hear straight from an audiophile such as yourself and other members here, than a journalist or misunderstood individuals.


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Obviously there's some reasoning behind their actions, I assume they disagreed on something somewhere. But I agree with what you're saying.
> 
> Back to the DACs, StanD suggested the FiiO E18. What would you suggest? (not majorly expensive if possible). I've looked online but many articles are outdated or forums being 500 pages long; and I'd rather hear straight from an audiophile such as yourself and other members here, than a journalist or misunderstood individuals.


 
 I still stand by the Skyn (they are only $8000 short on upgrading every Skyn with the Super Amp).  The FiiO stuff used to be good value, but not really any more.  If you really want to go the Android DAC route, please at least check out JDS Labs C5 or C5D.
  
 http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> I still stand by the Skyn (they are only $8000 short on upgrading every Skyn with the Super Amp).  The FiiO stuff used to be good value, but not really any more.  If you really want to go the Android DAC route, please at least check out JDS Labs C5 or C5D.
> 
> http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/


 
  
 Okay thanks. I agree that it looks _very_ good value for money! Especially since the Super Amp (HiFi-M8) is worth around $700 and I could get it for $200. But I think StanD has a point. Once I upgrade from my iPhone 6 to the iPhone 7 in 2 years time, that'll be $200 down the drain, since it won't be compatible with the 7. Do you see any way around this? Or will in 2 years the DAC degrade or become irrelevant? - I'm not sure how DACs work, and their quality, etc.
  
 You say about an "Android DAC route", what's that? DACs that only work with Android? Because that link says it's compatible with iPhone too?


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> Okay thanks. I agree that it looks _very_ good value for money! Especially since the Super Amp (HiFi-M8) is worth around $700 and I could get it for $200. But I think StanD has a point. Once I upgrade from my iPhone 6 to the iPhone 7 in 2 years time, that'll be $200 down the drain, since it won't be compatible with the 7. Do you see any way around this? Or will in 2 years the DAC degrade or become irrelevant? - I'm not sure how DACs work, and their quality, etc.
> 
> You say about an "Android DAC route", what's that? DACs that only work with Android? Because that link says it's compatible with iPhone too?


 
 Think about this way, I have been down on your path before, so I know about getting gear and just keep on upgrading later.  Because guess what, FiiO will sure release more models in two years time, and by then you will be looking to sell and upgrade.  Of course, when the iP7 comes out, you can also sell it for like $100 and pay Mike $200 for the upgrade.  Also, the FiiO E18 only works with iPhones by the use of the CCK, which is not 100% in both hardware and software, as Apple is known to change things often and not for exactly good reasons.  This is why Apple Certified DACs cost so much in the past (Sony PHA-1 for $350), until the Skyn comes along.


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## StanD

drsheep said:


> Think about this way, I have been down on your path before, so I know about getting gear and just keep on upgrading later.  Because guess what, FiiO will sure release more models in two years time, and by then you will be looking to sell and upgrade.  Of course, when the iP7 comes out, you can also sell it for like $100 and pay Mike $200 for the upgrade.  Also, the FiiO E18 only works with iPhones by the use of the CCK, which is not 100% in both hardware and software, as Apple is known to change things often and not for exactly good reasons.  This is why Apple Certified DACs cost so much in the past (Sony PHA-1 for $350), until the Skyn comes along.


 
 The E18 and a number of other DACs work with the CCK for the same reason as an OTG cable is required for Android. This has nothing to do with Apple, it has to do with host mode for the ports and is 100% to do with hardware and software standards. Apple has adopted the USB Audio Spec, has done an excellent implementation and will not back out of it, they are not all evil. If FiiO or anyone else comes up with a new model there is no reason to uprade unless one wishes to, one is not being forced to by some form factor.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Think about this way, I have been down on your path before, so I know about getting gear and just keep on upgrading later.  Because guess what, FiiO will sure release more models in two years time, and by then you will be looking to sell and upgrade.  Of course, when the iP7 comes out, you can also sell it for like $100 and pay Mike $200 for the upgrade.  Also, the FiiO E18 only works with iPhones by the use of the CCK, which is not 100% in both hardware and software, as Apple is known to change things often and not for exactly good reasons.  This is why Apple Certified DACs cost so much in the past (Sony PHA-1 for $350), until the Skyn comes along.


 
  
 I was unaware the company would upgrade models for $200? I saw they would upgrade iPhone 5/5S users to the 6 model for $200, but didn't see anything about the 6 to the 7, and so-on? Will this be a re-occuring thing then when a new iPhone is released, an upgrade will be available for $200? Is this confirmed? And thank you very much for the information.
  


stand said:


> The E18 and a number of other DACs work with the CCK for the same reason as an OTG cable is required for Android. This has nothing to do with Apple, it has to do with host mode for the ports and is 100% to do with hardware and software standards. Apple has adopted the USB Audio Spec, has done an excellent implementation and will not back out of it, they are not all evil. If FiiO or anyone else comes up with a new model there is no reason to uprade unless one wishes to, one is not being forced to by some form factor.


 
  
 Are you strictly against the Skyn, StanD? I've seen you and DrSheep debating a lot (for which most of the terminology I don't understand), and you seem to be against the Skyn and more in favour of other DACs. Is there a reason for this, I'm very curious to know different people's standpoints.


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## DrSheep

Scott, it's not confirmed but I think you can at least ask.  Or you can plan on a three way upgrade when the 7 is out: get the Skyn for 5, then sell your 5 and get a used iTouch 5th gen for the Skyn and a 6; then sell the 6 when 7 comes out.


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Are you strictly against the Skyn, StanD? I've seen you and DrSheep debating a lot (for which most of the terminology I don't understand), and you seem to be against the Skyn and more in favour of other DACs. Is there a reason for this, I'm very curious to know different people's standpoints.


 
 Not at all, I'm Pro Choice (hehehe). I'm just correcting the business of compatibility and the CCK. As far as Skyn goes, it looks like a nice product with the one problem that I stated, form factor that fits only one phone.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Scott, it's not confirmed but I think you can at least ask.  Or you can plan on a three way upgrade when the 7 is out: get the Skyn for 5, then sell your 5 and get a used iTouch 5th gen for the Skyn and a 6; then sell the 6 when 7 comes out.


 

 I apologise if I'm getting fustrated to talk to... Though I do really appreciate all the help and advice you've given me!
  
 I thought I'd ask you first in case you knew. I currently have the iPhone 6, so I don't think the iPod Touch would fit the iPhone 6 model, unless Apple release a new iTouch - which I suppose is likely since the 5th gen is very outdated.


----------



## Scotty141

stand said:


> Not at all, I'm Pro Choice (hehehe). I'm just correcting the business of compatibility and the CCK. As far as Skyn goes, it looks like a nice product with the one problem that I stated, form factor that fits only one phone.


 
  
 Ah ok! Yes that's the only worry I have with it. I've not experienced 'sandwiching' a DAC and phone together, but I assume from the comments it's not nice? The Skyn is getting a lot of praise for being all in-house, which sounds nice, but is having an external DAC really that bad? I like the sound of having one that I can use with multiple devices, but if it's really that bad to have an external one then I suppose the Skyn is the way to go, and upgrade for $200 each time (if that's a service they're willing to offer with future phone models)


----------



## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Ah ok! Yes that's the only worry I have with it. I've not experienced 'sandwiching' a DAC and phone together, but I assume from the comments it's not nice? The Skyn is getting a lot of praise for being all in-house, which sounds nice, but is having an external DAC really that bad? I like the sound of having one that I can use with multiple devices, but if it's really that bad to have an external one then I suppose the Skyn is the way to go, and upgrade for $200 each time (if that's a service they're willing to offer with future phone models)


 
 The Skyn is neater and more attractive than sandwiching, but keep in mind the Skyn will make your phone larger and heavier, there is no ideal magical solution. I think the biggest weakness in phones is the Amp, many times the DACs are decent enough. Keep in mind when on a bus, plane or train, the ambient noise will detract from percieving true fidelity so one might wonder the value of spending too much for what may not be appreciated. I much prefer open back cans, which on the road is useless but I can get away with using them at the office since I"m not close enough to other people to annoy them with leakage and thus can use a small desktop DAC/Amp solution.
 What is the impedance of the CIEMs that you are getting?


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## DrSheep

Scott you are doing fine. I used to stack too, but it gets tiring quick: bands/tapes/Velcro, different interconnect cables, multiple chargers, size, etc. And to be honest with you, it isn't even about the Skyn, but it is just that it is the best for the buck now for an Apple DAC.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> The Skyn is neater and more attractive than sandwiching, but keep in mind the Skyn will make your phone larger and heavier, there is no ideal magical solution. I think the biggest weakness in phones is the Amp, many times the DACs are decent enough. Keep in mind when on a bus, plane or train, the ambient noise will detract from percieving true fidelity so one might wonder the value of spending too much for what may not be appreciated. I much prefer open back cans, which on the road is useless but I can get away with using them at the office since I"m not close enough to other people to annoy them with leakage and thus can use a small desktop DAC/Amp solution.
> What is the impedance of the CIEMs that you are getting?


 
  
 I'm actually a fan of having a more bulky and heavier phone. I've always had a Mophie case so I suppose I've just got used to it. In fact, I don't like it without it on because I feel it's too thin - so I can't imagine the Skyn will be a problem for me - other than the extra bit at the bottom which just looks odd to me.
  
 Interesting point about the ambient noise. The impedance is 26 Ohms... not sure what that means?


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Scott you are doing fine. I used to stack too, but it gets tiring quick: bands/tapes/Velcro, different interconnect cables, multiple chargers, size, etc. And to be honest with you, it isn't even about the Skyn, but it is just that it is the best for the buck now for an Apple DAC.


 

 Ah ok, I don't have the experience so I suppose I don't understand the struggle many audiophiles have faced. Thank you for the honesty, in fairness it does look very good value for money, especially if they reach the 'super-amp' stretch goal! I'm glad you brought it to my attention, otherwise I never would have known about it or been able to consider it!


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> I'm actually a fan of having a more bulky and heavier phone. I've always had a Mophie case so I suppose I've just got used to it. In fact, I don't like it without it on because I feel it's too thin - so I can't imagine the Skyn will be a problem for me - other than the extra bit at the bottom which just looks odd to me.
> 
> Interesting point about the ambient noise. The impedance is 26 Ohms... not sure what that means?


 
 I'm told that the DAC and Amp in the iPhone 6 are pretty good, only the impedance is not low enough to drive some very low impedance BA IEMs. Following the 8:1 ratio for damping ratio you would need to use an amp having an output impedance of 3.25 or less Ohms which might be OK with an iPhone 6. I have an iPod Touch 5G which does surprisingly well, it doesn't have much output power for hungry low impedance headphones but does very well otherwise. The amp has very low noise and distortion, I would suspect that the iPhone 6 might be better.
 I'm very pleased with the Touch 5G and got it because of recommendations. I've used it with the Lightning CCK cable to a variety of DACs, each one worked. My Bifrost required a powered USB Hub, others did not require the powered Hub.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> I'm told that the DAC and Amp in the iPhone 6 are pretty good, only the impedance is not low enough to drive some very low impedance BA IEMs. Following the 8:1 ratio for damping ratio you would need to use an amp having an output impedance of 3.25 or less Ohms which might be OK with an iPhone 6. I have an iPod Touch 5G which does surprisingly well, it doesn't have much output power for hungry low impedance headphones but does very well otherwise. The amp has very low noise and distortion, I would suspect that the iPhone 6 might be better.
> I'm very pleased with the Touch 5G and got it because of recommendations. I've used it with the Lightning CCK cable to a variety of DACs, each one worked. My Bifrost required a powered USB Hub, others did not require the powered Hub.


 

 Very interesting... thank you for letting me know! What's a "8:1 ratio for damping ratio"? I tried googling "damping ratio" but none of it made any sense to me... And why is it 8:1? Does the fact that my CIEMS will have 10 drivers make any difference?
  
 Also, is 26 Ohms defined as a 'low impedance' you specified or not? And is a low impedance good? I'm really not sure about this stuff, sorry... I know the EarPods that I use at the moment (YES I know, please don't crucify me) has an impedance of 23 Ohms.


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Very interesting... thank you for letting me know! What's a "8:1 ratio for damping ratio"? I tried googling "damping ratio" but none of it made any sense to me... And why is it 8:1? Does the fact that my CIEMS will have 10 drivers make any difference?
> 
> Also, is 26 Ohms defined as a 'low impedance' you specified or not? And is a low impedance good? I'm really not sure about this stuff, sorry... I know the EarPods that I use at the moment (YES I know, please don't crucify me) has an impedance of 23 Ohms.


 
 The damping ratio is to control any excess movement of the transducer due to inertia which can be a problem for bass. Magnetic planars are less affected by this and some dynamics have plenty of mechanical or magnetic damping. 26 Ohms are in the realm of low impedance, I wouldn't crucify anyone, unless they are using Beats - lol. What is the impedance of your 10 driver CIEMs?


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## DrSheep

scotty141 said:


> Ah ok, I don't have the experience so I suppose I don't understand the struggle many audiophiles have faced. Thank you for the honesty, in fairness it does look very good value for money, especially if they reach the 'super-amp' stretch goal! I'm glad you brought it to my attention, otherwise I never would have known about it or been able to consider it!


 
 Yeah no problem.  As for impedance matching, you don't have to worry about it with the Skyn, as it is less than 1 ohm.  The 8:1 ratio is that if your IEM is 32 ohms, the output impedance of the DAC/DAP/AMP should not be higher than 32 / 8 = 4 ohms (lower the better.)  Of course this is more of a guide and not an exact rule as there are exceptions, like the V-Moda VERZA and M-100 (10 out into 32 ohms.)


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> The damping ratio is to control any excess movement of the transducer due to inertia which can be a problem for bass. Magnetic planars are less affected by this and some dynamics have plenty of mechanical or magnetic damping. 26 Ohms are in the realm of low impedance, I wouldn't crucify anyone, unless they are using Beats - lol. What is the impedance of your 10 driver CIEMs?


 
  
 Ah right okay, understood! Thank you for explaining!
  
 So is low impedance better than a high impedance? Yes, even me with my EarPods at the moment would crucify someone with Beats, I know that much!
  
 My 10 driver CIEMs has the 26 Ohms impedance - that was what I was referring to before; think there may have been some confusion somewhere earlier
  


drsheep said:


> Yeah no problem.  As for impedance matching, you don't have to worry about it with the Skyn, as it is less than 1 ohm.  The 8:1 ratio is that if your IEM is 32 ohms, the output impedance of the DAC/DAP/AMP should not be higher than 32 / 8 = 4 ohms (lower the better.)  Of course this is more of a guide and not an exact rule as there are exceptions, like the V-Moda VERZA and M-100 (10 out into 32 ohms.)


 
  
 Interesting... I'm learning a lot here, a lot to absorb. So a lower output impedance in a DAC/DAP/AMP is better, so what's the case for CIEMs/headphones. Is high impedance or low impedance better? I just asked StanD the same question above ^ since the reference has popped up twice


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## DrSheep

Not necessary better or worse, but for high impedance headphones, you do need something with enough power to drive it.  In general, most IEMs or Headphone you see out there is around 32 ohms, which is pretty easy to drive and works great for phones and DAPs.  One the other end like the Sennheiser HD800, which is 300 ohms, will require something decently powerful to drive, which means if you plug the HD800 straight into your iPhone, it is going to sound like crap due to the lack of power.  Also, higher impedance doesn't necessary means higher grade, as some of the other high end headphones like Audeze LCD-2/3/X are only 32 ohms.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Not necessary better or worse, but for high impedance headphones, you do need something with enough power to drive it.  In general, most IEMs or Headphone you see out there is around 32 ohms, which is pretty easy to drive and works great for phones and DAPs.  One the other end like the Sennheiser HD800, which is 300 ohms, will require something decently powerful to drive, which means if you plug the HD800 straight into your iPhone, it is going to sound like crap due to the lack of power.  Also, higher impedance doesn't necessary means higher grade, as some of the other high end headphones like Audeze LCD-2/3/X are only 32 ohms.




Ah ok I understand now! So an iPhone 6 should be able to power a set of CIEMs at 26 Ohms pretty well? Would you say there's no *need *for a DAC, but one is advised to be able to pump up the volume more and listen to my lossless tracks properly? Would you say that's about right?


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Ah right okay, understood! Thank you for explaining!
> 
> So is low impedance better than a high impedance? Yes, even me with my EarPods at the moment would crucify someone with Beats, I know that much!
> 
> ...


 
 As the 'Doc has just said, impedance isn't an indicator of good or bad SQ. High impedance can be more difficult to drive because that requires a greater voltage swing from the amp to deliver the same amount of power as in a situation of lower impedance. Due to limitations of circuit design there may not be enough voltage capability in the power supply or output drivers. That is why you see many amps that can deliever lots of power at low impedances and less at high impedances.
 Of course portable battery operated equipment will face this issue with greater challenges, some handle this better than others.


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Ah ok I understand now! So an iPhone 6 should be able to power a set of CIEMs at 26 Ohms pretty well? Would you say there's no *need *for a DAC, but one is advised to be able to pump up the volume more and listen to my lossless tracks properly? Would you say that's about right?


 
 The level of volume has nothing to do with lossless or lossy. Perhaps once your CIEMs arrive you'll want to see how it works before cracking open your wallet for another beating.


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## DrSheep

Scott, in your case and argue for the Skyn, it will be better battery life, much more powerful amp (to make the best of your CIEM), and the use of FLAC/DSD with up-scanning for the rest of your libraries.  Although your 6 can easily drive your 26-ohm CIEM, a good DAC/AMP will bring out details that can't be heard in stock form.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> As the 'Doc has just said, impedance isn't an indicator of good or bad SQ. High impedance can be more difficult to drive because that requires a greater voltage swing from the amp to deliver the same amount of power as in a situation of lower impedance. Due to limitations of circuit design there may not be enough voltage capability in the power supply or output drivers. That is why you see many amps that can deliever lots of power at low impedances and less at high impedances.
> Of course portable battery operated equipment will face this issue with greater challenges, some handle this better than others.







stand said:


> The level of volume has nothing to do with lossless or lossy. Perhaps once your CIEMs arrive you'll want to see how it works before cracking open your wallet for another beating.




Interesting information there, thank you. Yeah I know volume isn't linked with lossless tracks, I meant them as 2 separate things. I assume the DAC/AMP of the Skyn/other external device will let my listen to my lossless tracks in their full quality _and_ turn up the volume louder/music will appear louder. Am I correct with the latter, or would volume be the same regardless as to whether my CIEMs were connected directly through the headphone jack on the iPhone, or if it was through an external DAC/AMP?

I would wait until they arrive, but the Skyn IndieGoGo project only has a limited time left on it, and my CIEMs haven't even started to be manufactured yet since my ear impressions are currently stuck in customs. So I guess I might just have to risk it, and sell whatever DAC I get if its not needed when my CIEMs arrive.



drsheep said:


> Scott, in your case and argue for the Skyn, it will be better battery life, much more powerful amp (to make the best of your CIEM), and the use of FLAC/DSD with up-scanning for the rest of your libraries.  Although your 6 can easily drive your 26-ohm CIEM, a good DAC/AMP will bring out details that can't be heard in stock form.




Battery life isn't a factor for me, since I just pre-ordered the Mophie Juice Pack Plus, which should be arriving next week.

As for the other things you've mentioned, it does seem very convincing to go with the Skyn. I'm swaying towards the Skyn I think, but I think I'll contact Mike to ask about the phone upgrade details first.

Currently I'm about £750 ($1130) out of pocket with nothing to show for it, I don't want to make it nearly £1000 ($1510) with the purchase of the Skyn - which won't arrive until March at the very earliest


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Interesting information there, thank you. Yeah I know volume isn't linked with lossless tracks, I meant them as 2 separate things. I assume the DAC/AMP of the Skyn/other external device will let my listen to my lossless tracks in their full quality _and_ turn up the volume louder/music will appear louder. Am I correct with the latter, or would volume be the same regardless as to whether my CIEMs were connected directly through the headphone jack on the iPhone, or if it was through an external DAC/AMP?
> 
> I would wait until they arrive, but the Skyn IndieGoGo project only has a limited time left on it, and my CIEMs haven't even started to be manufactured yet since my ear impressions are currently stuck in customs. So I guess I might just have to risk it, and sell whatever DAC I get if its not needed when my CIEMs arrive.
> Battery life isn't a factor for me, since I just pre-ordered the Mophie Juice Pack Plus, which should be arriving next week.
> ...


 
 Volume is a function of the IEM/headphone sensitivity and the gain of the amp that you are using, So the position of the volume control isn't the only thing. If your CIEMs are sensitive, you might tbe surprised by the SQ of a direct connection.


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## DrSheep

I know how you feel, and this is why to this day I still avoid customs as I hate to wait.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Volume is a function of the IEM/headphone sensitivity and the gain of the amp that you are using, So the position of the volume control isn't the only thing. If your CIEMs are sensitive, you might tbe surprised by the SQ of a direct connection.




Ahhhh ok, didn't know that! Makes a whole lot of sense though now that you've said it, thanks!



drsheep said:


> I know how you feel, and this is why to this day I still avoid customs as I hate to wait.




It's really fustrating me... I stupidly opted to send it via our national Mail service (Royal Mail) with an estimated delivery time of 5 - 7 working days. ...nearly 6 weeks later and I'm still waiting... Should have just paid £50 extra to fast track it through UPS


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> Ahhhh ok, didn't know that! Makes a whole lot of sense though now that you've said it, thanks!
> It's really fustrating me... I stupidly opted to send it via our national Mail service (Royal Mail) with an estimated delivery time of 5 - 7 working days. ...nearly 6 weeks later and I'm still waiting... Should have just paid £50 extra to fast track it through UPS


 
 Remember that old saying? "All good things come to those who wait." and wait and wait... Unfortunately you have to suffer with those Earpods. You might consider picking up another set of IEM's that are more conventional and readily available. After all, we tend to form a collection of kit as time marches on.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Remember that old saying? "All good things come to those who wait." and wait and wait... Unfortunately you have to suffer with those Earpods. You might consider picking up another set of IEM's that are more conventional and readily available. After all, we tend to form a collection of kit as time marches on.




Well... I sure hope so! Worried about DrSheeps comments about the companies past issues now though... 

No doubt I will eventually have an array of equipment like you lot here, but for now I'm waiting for my first piece of kit and it feels like eternity! Excited to get them and experience what I've missed out on for so many years!


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## DrSheep

Well, we are all here for a reason.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Well, we are all here for a reason.




True. Thank you DrSheep and StanD for all your help and advice! I really appreciate it!


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## StanD

scotty141 said:


> True. Thank you DrSheep and StanD for all your help and advice! I really appreciate it!


 
 Cool, enjoy the road ahead, going broke while listening to music. It's healthier and less expensive than gambling, although many times we gamble when we buy some kit. I hope those CIEM's land in your hands real soon.


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## Scotty141

stand said:


> Cool, enjoy the road ahead, going broke while listening to music. It's healthier and less expensive than gambling, although many times we gamble when we buy some kit. I hope those CIEM's land in your hands real soon.


 
  
 Thank you. Indeed, I will no doubt experience what you all have. I'm sure I'll be seeing you all around here again when I (hopefully) get my CIEMs. Just had another go at Royal Mail and China Post, trying to get down to the issue.
  
 I gave both you and DrSheep some 'reputation' - whatever that does? And I hope you have a great week!


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## DrSheep

Thanks and take care.  And keep on posting.


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## StanD

Hopefully you can start listening soon and post your findings.


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## DrSheep

Scott, go read the Skyn thread now.  Mike is saying that if you get the first one now, you can get a second one IN THE FUTURE (updated model like an iP7 version) for only $175.


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## Scotty141

drsheep said:


> Scott, go read the Skyn thread now.  Mike is saying that if you get the first one now, you can get a second one IN THE FUTURE (updated model like an iP7 version) for only $175.


 

 Thanks for telling me! Coincidentally I was just reading the thread and was just writing a reply as you wrote here. Concept sounds great, but a few concerns with it - as mentioned in my reply I just posted over there


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## johnkkraus

Any idea if the hi-fi sky worth it with the iphone 6? I hear some folks saying the iphone 6 and 6+ have a great built in DAC and I won’t hear much difference. Others say the Skyn ( based on their hi-fi M8 DAC) will make a huge difference.
  
 This would be specifically for listening to the Tidal streaming service, which streams in uncompressed hi-fi- or much less compressed than MP3s and 4s and such. iphone 6 with Bower and Wilkins P7 cans.
  
 Any thoughts most welcome.


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## StanD

johnkkraus said:


> Any idea if the hi-fi sky worth it with the iphone 6? I hear some folks saying the iphone 6 and 6+ have a great built in DAC and I won’t hear much difference. Others say the Skyn ( based on their hi-fi M8 DAC) will make a huge difference.
> 
> This would be specifically for listening to the Tidal streaming service, which streams in uncompressed hi-fi- or much less compressed than MP3s and 4s and such. iphone 6 with Bower and Wilkins P7 cans.
> 
> Any thoughts most welcome.


 
 A lot of people say that one cannot hear a difference between a 320 kbps mp3 and any hires format. IMO your best expenditure is in quality headphones.


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## Soundizer

Please may I request some advice. What Fiio should i use on an iPhone 6 plus for improved overall sound quality. I understand the internal DAC is now quite good on the iPhone 6 plus so should i connect it direct to the Fiio E12? Other discussions have indicated more complex configurations using Camera Kit to iPhone 6 plus and then usb cable into to Fiio USB MODEL for best sound to bypass iPhone amp, and another suggestion has been using a very awkward lightning to 30 pin and then into L9 cable and then into Fiio E12. Please help clarify. Thank you kindly. smily_headphones1.gif


----------



## Soundizer

Please may I request some advice. What Fiio should i use on an iPhone 6 plus for improved overall sound quality. 

I understand the internal DAC is now quite good on the iPhone 6 plus si should i connect it direct to the Fiio E12? 

Other discussions have indicated more complex configurations using Camera Kit to iPhone 6 plus and then usb cable into to Fiio USB MODEL for best sound to bypass iPhone amp, and another suggestion has been using a very awkward lightning to 30 pin and then into L9 cable and then into Fiio E12. 

Please help clarify. 

Thank you kindly.


----------



## BRX7

Digging this thread to get some info,
Does the lightning port restrict audio output to 16bit 44khz?
I.e and hi res flac will not produce 24bit output via a player through the lightning port


----------



## StanD

IPhones with Lightning ports do not have audio line out connections. Any means of doing this requires a DAC and getting a cable with an embedded DAC chip is IMO not a good idea. Most people will not want to double Amp out of the headphone jack. I use an Android phone which works perfectly fine with an external DAC. I also have an iPod Touch 5G which works perfectly fine with external DACs using the Lightning CCK cable, etc. sometimes requiring a powered USB Hub. I haven't checked too carefully, however, the headphone output of the Touch is very quiet and in this case double Amping may not be such a terrible thing, especially if one is mobile under less than ideal listening conditions. I wouldn't et too wrapped up in 24 bit as that exceeds the true DR of any DAC and in real life to realize such a DR would shatter one's head.


----------



## bsd107

brx7 said:


> Digging this thread to get some info,
> Does the lightning port restrict audio output to 16bit 44khz?
> I.e and hi res flac will not produce 24bit output via a player through the lightning port


 
  
 Not sure about the bit-depth.  But I have several audio apps which do disclose the audio frequency being output (KORG iAudioGate, radius NePLAYER).
  
 When the Apple Lightning Ear Pods (bundled with the iPhone 7+), 44.1kHz sources are output at 44.1kHz, as they should be.  And sources that are at 48kHz or multiples of 48kHz, are output at 48kHz, as they should be.  Using the Apple Lightning to Headphone dongle (also bundled with the iPhone 7+) gives the same results.  The iPhone Control Center identifies both as "Headphones", and NePLAYER identifes the output as "Lightning".
  
 My Sony MDR-1ADAC supposedly supports 16-bit @ 44.1kHz/48kHz through it's Lightning cable.  However, no matter what the format of sound source that I play (e.g. 44.kHz source, 48kHz source, 96kHz source, DSD source, etc), the output is sent at only 44.1kHz.  Even 48kHz formats, or multiples of 48kHz, are output at 44.1kHz.  The iPhone Control Center identifies as "Dock", and NePLAYER identifies the output as "Other".
  
 If I connect the MDR-1ADAC via the Apple Lighting USB 3.0 Camera Kit to the PC micro-USB connector on the MDR-1ADAC, the audio apps send the audio at their native output frequencies, as they should, BUT no actual audio is heard on the headphones - for some reason the digital audio doesn't route correctly.  The iPhone Control Center identifies as "MDR-1ADAC", as it should, but again the audio doesn't actually get sent out.
  
 I get these results on iPhone 7, iPad Air 2, and iPhone 7+, all running iOS 10.0.2 or iOS 10.0.3.
  
 Looks like some incompatibilities - hopefully these will get corrected in future iOS updates, but I am not holding my breath on that....


----------



## posnera

I have a generic amp question, new to the idea.
  
 I've got an iphone 6+ and am using MeeAudio Pinnacle iems.  The sound is great, but I would like a little more bass.  Is that something that a portable amp would produce?  Or am I better off sticking with equalizer apps?


----------



## StanD

posnera said:


> I have a generic amp question, new to the idea.
> 
> I've got an iphone 6+ and am using MeeAudio Pinnacle iems.  The sound is great, but I would like a little more bass.  Is that something that a portable amp would produce?  Or am I better off sticking with equalizer apps?


 

 Try using an EQ, That phone has decent audio hardware and should easily drive your IEMs. I don't think ios offers any EQ app that is independent of the player. Take a look at Neutron Music Player, it has a parametric EQ, sounds great and is available for both Android and IOS.


----------



## posnera

Thanks for the reply. I've already got the Onkyo HF player app which has an equalizer. I prefer to use the built in music app, but the Apple eq presets are junk.


----------



## StanD

posnera said:


> Thanks for the reply. I've already got the Onkyo HF player app which has an equalizer. I prefer to use the built in music app, but the Apple eq presets are junk.


 

 Onkyo is pretty good too. Amongst my toys I have a iPod Touch and was also disappointed with the meager built-in EQ, so I found other apps.


----------

