# Cavalli Audio's Liquid Carbon Owners Impressions



## Mr Rick

Thought I would start a new thread specifically for impressions from new Cavalli Liquid Carbon owners.
  
 I just received mine a few minutes ago, so no comments as of yet. I'm putting it through it's paces using my Headphone / Amp test tracks on Spotify.


----------



## Mr Rick

My first observation:
  
 Adding balanced cables to my HD650 and using the balanced output of the LC has given my HD650s new life. Always seemed my HD650s were a bit flat. No longer. 
  
 Later this evening I'll try my HD800 with balanced cables out of the LC.


----------



## santacore

It looks like Mr Rick did the right thing and created a separate impressions thread. Here is a copy and paste I just posted on the original thread:
  
_Come on guys, I can't be the only one who has one up and running. I fell asleep listening to it last night with my Fostex TH900's. The sound was balanced, had good tone, and created nice sound staging. At this price point, I think the amp is a home run. What are the rest of you hearing??_


----------



## x RELIC x

Pretty sure this thread will fill up more in a couple weeks. Nice to have one started though, thanks. I know I'll be posting impressions.


----------



## singleended58

I am connecting the iPhone 6+ (or 4s) to Cypherlabs Theorem 720 DAC amp (via OTG cable came with CL) >> what balanced cable do you suggest to pair with LC amp? Any links to get the cables would be appreciated?


----------



## Mr Rick

singleended58 said:


> I am connecting the iPhone 6+ (or 4s) to Cypherlabs Theorem 720 DAC amp (via OTG cable came with CL) >> what balanced cable do you suggest to pair with LC amp? Any links to get the cables would be appreciated?


 
  
 I won't be using anything fancy. I found these on Amazon.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DF925WO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3NNC30GS1KNTB&coliid=I1IOY0DULIXKN0&psc=1


----------



## aqsw

Wow, an impressions thread and it made it to 4 posts before going off topic.


----------



## Mr Rick

aqsw said:


> Wow, an impressions thread and it made it to 4 posts before going off topic.


 
 Welcome to Head-Fi.


----------



## singleended58

aqsw said:


> Wow, an impressions thread and it made it to 4 posts before going off topic.





Well, I have to be able to connect the sources to LC then give the impressions after long listening session, right?


----------



## zachawry

Subscribed


----------



## abernardi

Oh boy, looking forward to it!  I just picked up a pair of HD800's with the Anax mod and Sonny's balanced cable.... c'monnn USPS, we're ready here....


----------



## aqsw

singleended58 said:


> Well, I have to be able to connect the sources to LC then give the impressions after long listening session, right?



Wrong, it's an impressions thread. Lots of threads on how to connect amps and sources.

It really doesn't matter to me that much. I was just amused by how long it took.


----------



## grrorr76

I have one on order but am considering cancelling. I find it hard to justify when I don't know why its supposedly better than other amps.  What makes it so awesome ? I am holding of cancelling until I have some real information. If its only 5% better than what I have its not worth it. Come on guys sell me on it. I feel I got a bit caught up in the hype. I remain open minded but am camping at the bit to know why its "awesome" one other person I read said the sound is orgasmic haha but in what way.. do tell . help me make up my mind.


----------



## zachawry

It's not our job to sell you on anything, but if you told us your current setup maybe someone could give you meaningful feedback on whether or not it would be a real upgrade.


----------



## singleended58

grrorr76 said:


> I have one on order but am considering cancelling. I find it hard to justify when I don't know why its supposedly better than other amps.  What makes it so awesome ? I am holding of cancelling until I have some real information. If its only 5% better than what I have its not worth it. Come on guys sell me on it. I feel I got a bit caught up in the hype. I remain open minded but am camping at the bit to know why its "awesome" one other person I read said the sound is orgasmic haha but in what way.. do tell . help me make up my mind.




TBH I really like the SQ of the LC after listening at CanJam SoCal. Dr. Alex Cavalli told me if I got the right balanced cables (Wywire balanced cables from the sources all the way to HD800 via LC) the sound will be really good. That 60 minute long listening session have impressed me enough.


----------



## Colgin

Can anyone comment on quality difference of SE output versus balanced and how big a step down in SQ the SE output is. I have some cans (AKGs) that for all practical purposes will always be SE. I had been looking at Mjolnir 2 but understand the SE output on it (as well as the Ragnarok) is for "utility" only and you really don't get best of that amp if you use it. Wondering if the SE output on the LC is still good compared to its balanced output.


----------



## immtbiker

Mine is "in the mail".Impressions to follow. Very excited.


----------



## sling5s

colgin said:


> Can anyone comment on quality difference of SE output versus balanced and how big a step down in SQ the SE output is. I have some cans (AKGs) that for all practical purposes will always be SE. I had been looking at Mjolnir 2 but understand the SE output on it (as well as the Ragnarok) is for "utility" only and you really don't get best of that amp if you use it. Wondering if the SE output on the LC is still good compared to its balanced output.




+1


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

In regard to balanced vs. SE, believe the doc said that differences should be pretty much imperceptible due to the LC's phase splitter: 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3165#post_11876685
  
 Edit: Oh wait, I see you guys are talking to output vs. input. I do believe someone said the difference is still negligible there. Ironically enough, it seems that users of (very sensitive) IEMs stand the most to gain due to the lower noise floor of balanced vs SE.


----------



## purk

I have several great sounding balanced solidstate amps that I can compared it to.  I'm most interested at how the Liquid Carbon compared to the my old Headroom BUDA.  Thursday is so far away.


----------



## sling5s

idsynchrono_24 said:


> In regard to balanced vs. SE, believe the doc said that differences should be pretty much imperceptible due to the LC's phase splitter:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3165#post_11876685
> 
> Edit: Oh wait, I see you guys are talking to output vs. input. I do believe someone said the difference is still negligible there. Ironically enough, it seems that users of (very sensitive) IEMs stand the most to gain due to the lower noise floor of balanced vs SE.




For my part I meant SE for headphones (low impedance).


----------



## x RELIC x

colgin said:


> Can anyone comment on quality difference of SE output versus balanced and how big a step down in SQ the SE output is. I have some cans (AKGs) that for all practical purposes will always be SE. I had been looking at Mjolnir 2 but understand the SE output on it (as well as the Ragnarok) is for "utility" only and you really don't get best of that amp if you use it. Wondering if the SE output on the LC is still good compared to its balanced output.




In the other threads Dr. Cavalli has basically said you're getting half the amp and less sound quality when listening to the LC through the SE headphone jack. To get the most out of the LC you want balanced headphones. That said, let's try to keep this thread to owners impressions and after some impressions roll in you might get an idea.


----------



## purk

x relic x said:


> In the other threads Dr. Cavalli has basically said you're getting half the amp and less sound quality when listening to the LC through the SE headphone jack. To get the most out of the LC you want balanced headphones. That said, let's try to keep this thread to owners impressions and after some impressions roll in you might get an idea.


 
 That's true but the improvement should only be around 15-20% better, which should be easily discernible.


----------



## x RELIC x

purk said:


> That's true but the improvement should only be around 15-20% better, which should be easily discernible.




Notice I carefully avoided any % improvement in my comment. :wink_face:

If it's 15-20% better that'll be a massive perceived improvement.


----------



## purk

x relic x said:


> Notice I carefully avoided any % improvement in my comment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup.  
  
 Could be less as well depending on the topology used.  I can't wait to get mine.  Hope you won't have to wait long for yours.


----------



## conquerator2

Subbed.


----------



## x RELIC x

purk said:


> Yup.
> 
> Could be less as well depending on the topology used.  I can't wait to get mine. * Hope you won't have to wait long for yours*.




Trying not to think about it.


----------



## runeight

purk said:


> That's true but the improvement should only be around 15-20% better, which should be easily discernible.


 
  
 Hey guys, let's be a little more accurate about this. I'm not sure where 15-20% came from, but not from me.
  
 When operating in SE mode with the same load as Bal the amp will deliver 1/4 the power of the Balanced out. We've already had this conversation a few times.
  
 There will be slightly higher noise floor from the SE out and this will effect your ability to put high sensitivity headphones on the SE out compared to the Bal. But don't just assume that the SE out will simply be noisy or less SQ. That's not the case. It has a very low noise floor and many headphones will work perfectly well out of it. But if you're planning to use very sensitive IEMs then the Bal out could be the difference between audible noise and in-audible noise. And if you need the full power of the amp for driving planars you'll have to go balanced. If you need the full voltage excursion of the amp for HD800s then you'll have to go balanced. But for many of you in your normal listening situations you might be able to listen SE without feeling any loss of quality.
  
 That said, Bal will almost always be slightly better because it's exercising the entirety of the amp and gives you wider dynamic range.


----------



## sling5s

runeight said:


> Hey guys, let's be a little more accurate about this. I'm not sure where 15-20% came from, but not from me.
> 
> When operating in SE mode with the same load as Bal the amp will deliver 1/4 the power of the Balanced out. We've already had this conversation a few times.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Mr Rick

Let me preface further observations by saying I am a 65 year old product of the Rock & Roll era, with many high decibel concerts under my belt. For that reason, my hearing, especially in the high frequency region leaves something to be desired. I have several other Amps and a small collection of HPs. But the LC is my first Amp with balanced capabilities.
  
 That said, my first listening session with the LC was using my HIFIMAN HE400S headphones in SE configuration. Using the RCA unbalanced inputs out of my Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC. 
 Directly out of the box, the LC sounded as good, but no better, than the other amps I own. I had no preconceived notions that I would find otherwise. I am of the opinion that any well designed Amp, in this day and age, will sound sonically transparent. I found this to be the case with the LC.
  
 My second listening session featured the LC driving my Sennheiser HD650 headphones in balanced configuration, using cables purchased on amazon. My initial opinion, as stated in my posting above, is that the 650s sound a bit more lively in the balanced configuration driven by the LC. This is a very unscientific finding, and could very well be due to "wishful thinking" on my part. 
  
 My reasoning in purchasing the LC was to provide balanced capability in driving my HD650s, HD800s, and soon my HE400S in balanced configuration. I have read the pros and cons of balanced topology and want to reach my own conclusions on the subject. For me, it's very early in the game . So, the jury is still out on the matter.


----------



## swspiers

mr rick said:


> Let me preface further observations by saying I am a 65 year old product of the Rock & Roll era, with many high decibel concerts under my belt. For that reason, my hearing, especially in the high frequency region leaves something to be desired. I have several other Amps and a small collection of HPs. But the LC is my first Amp with balanced capabilities.
> 
> That said, my first listening session with the LC was using my HIFIMAN HE400S headphones in SE configuration. Using the RCA unbalanced inputs out of my Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC.
> Directly out of the box, the LC sounded as good, but no better, than the other amps I own. I had no preconceived notions that I would find otherwise. I am of the opinion that any well designed Amp, in this day and age, will sound sonically transparent. I found this to be the case with the LC.
> ...


 
 Well written. Recent events have torn me away from a strict Objectivist point of view though, and I'm looking forward to experiencing the Cavalli vs. my Burson and Benchmark.  I'm really looking forward to the experience!


----------



## Mr Rick

swspiers said:


> Well written. Recent events have torn me away from a strict Objectivist point of view though, and I'm looking forward to experiencing the Cavalli vs. my Burson and Benchmark.  I'm really looking forward to the experience!


 
  
 I'm sure you will enjoy yourself. 
  
 I've switched over to my balanced HD800 and am in the process of rediscovering Sophie Milman.


----------



## grrorr76

mr rick said:


> Let me preface further observations by saying I am a 65 year old product of the Rock & Roll era, with many high decibel concerts under my belt. For that reason, my hearing, especially in the high frequency region leaves something to be desired. I have several other Amps and a small collection of HPs. But the LC is my first Amp with balanced capabilities.
> 
> That said, my first listening session with the LC was using my HIFIMAN HE400S headphones in SE configuration. Using the RCA unbalanced inputs out of my Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC.
> Directly out of the box, the LC sounded as good, but no better, than the other amps I own. I had no preconceived notions that I would find otherwise. I am of the opinion that any well designed Amp, in this day and age, will sound sonically transparent. I found this to be the case with the LC.
> ...


 

 So do I take it your impressions so far in both balanced and unbalanced is, its only marginally better than your current amps? Just out of interest what amp are you comparing it to?


----------



## Mr Rick

grrorr76 said:


> So do I take it your impressions so far in both balanced and unbalanced is, its only marginally better than your current amps? Just out of interest what amp are you comparing it to?


 
  
 Keep in mind that the LC is my only balanced amp, but yes, I hear little difference. Of course YMMV.
  
 See my profile for a list of my equipment.


----------



## grrorr76

mr rick said:


> Keep in mind that the LC is my only balanced amp, but yes, I hear little difference. Of course YMMV.
> 
> See my profile for a list of my equipment.


 

 Thanks for the advice. I don't want an amp that has minimal difference so I cancelled mine. I don't need multiple amps so Im sticking with what I have. I think I just dodged a 599 dollar bullet thanks again.


----------



## mscott58

grrorr76 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I don't want an amp that has minimal difference so I cancelled mine. I don't need multiple amps so Im sticking with what I have. I think I just dodged a 599 dollar bullet thanks again.




Off of one review? Sounds like you might have been looking for a reason to cancel. It's cool, your choice of course. Just trying to align with the volume of highly positive experiences with the LC (including my multiple times with it). Cheers


----------



## grrorr76

mscott58 said:


> Off of one review? Sounds like you might have been looking for a reason to cancel. It's cool.


 

 Not really. I was looking for someone to say wow this is the best amp at 599 and its better because , no one has. I would of been very disappointed paying 599 for something that didn't deliver. So no I wasn't looking for a reason to cancel but I can't spare 600 on something that doesn't deliver big improvements so id call myself cautious.s


----------



## mscott58

grrorr76 said:


> Not really. I was looking for someone to say wow this is the best amp at 599 and its better because , no one has. I would of been very disappointed paying 599 for something that didn't deliver. So no I wasn't looking for a reason to cancel but I can't spare 600 on something that doesn't deliver big improvements so id call myself cautious.s




If that's the case I'd say it's easily the best HP amp I've heard for $600.


----------



## Peridot

mscott58 said:


> If that's the case I'd say it's easily the best HP amp I've heard for $600.


 
  
 I think you need to use the words 'awesome' and/or  'orgasmic' to make him happy


----------



## Mr Rick

grrorr76 said:


> Not really. I was looking for someone to say wow this is the best amp at 599 and its better because , no one has. I would of been very disappointed paying 599 for something that didn't deliver. So no I wasn't looking for a reason to cancel but I can't spare 600 on something that doesn't deliver big improvements so id call myself cautious.s


 
  
 Does it sound "better" than my other Amps??  I can't hear "better", but perhaps others can. 
  
 Does it offer features my other amps do not have?  Yes
  
 Was it worth the investment?  In my opinion, absolutely.


----------



## bearFNF

grrorr76 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I don't want an amp that has minimal difference so I cancelled mine. I don't need multiple amps so Im sticking with what I have. I think I just dodged a 599 dollar bullet thanks again.


 

 Just as an FYI from this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available  in the *Update 10/14/2015 section*
 "Also, for various reasons some of you have cancelled over the last several months. We are always happy to do a refund, but ... *so that things don't get impossibly complicated at the last minute when we're trying to ship, we are going to cut off refunds starting November 1*. If you want a refund please do so before then. This is simply a logistical issue between us and the folks who are actually doing the fulfillment."
  
 Not sure how your cancelation is going, did it go through?  I am sure they will try to accommodate you, but I thought I would point this out to you.


----------



## grrorr76

bearfnf said:


> Just as an FYI from this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available  in the *Update 10/14/2015 section*
> "Also, for various reasons some of you have cancelled over the last several months. We are always happy to do a refund, but ... *so that things don't get impossibly complicated at the last minute when we're trying to ship, we are going to cut off refunds starting November 1*. If you want a refund please do so before then. This is simply a logistical issue between us and the folks who are actually doing the fulfillment."
> 
> Not sure how your cancelation is going, did it go through?  I am sure they will try to accommodate you, but I thought I would point this out to you.


 

 yeah all good it came through very quick.


----------



## grrorr76

peridot said:


> I think you need to use the words 'awesome' and/or  'orgasmic' to make him happy


 

 no what I'm interested in is if its so great , what is great about it. its tone? is it amazingly dynamic ? what is it that makes it so great. Describe what your hearing that your not hearing in your other amps.


----------



## bearFNF

grrorr76 said:


> yeah all good it came through very quick.


 

 Well they must have gotten caught up enough to handle it then, that's good to know.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

It seems awfully early to give up on an amp.  So many reviewers praised this device as an amazing value.  And now production units are just starting to hit the customers...


----------



## grrorr76

buttuglyjeff said:


> It seems awfully early to give up on an amp.  So many reviewers praised this device as an amazing value.  And now production units are just starting to hit the customers...


 

 no one can say why its amazing value thats why i gave up. So many times I have bought gear because of online opinions and a few times I have gotten a hit a few have been a miss.


----------



## mscott58

grrorr76 said:


> no one can say why its amazing value thats why i gave up. So many times I have bought gear because of online opinions and a few times I have gotten a hit a few have been a miss.




If you read the other LC threads (there's two of them for some reason) there's tons of info of the type I believe you are looking for, both from Alex himself and many of us who have had primary experience with it. Cheers


----------



## Mr Rick

grrorr76 said:


> no one can say why its amazing value thats why i gave up. So many times I have bought gear because of online opinions and a few times I have gotten a hit a few have been a miss.


 
 Are you looking for another fully balanced HP amplifier?  I'm not sure you can find one for $600.00 or less. I am happy to be proven wrong. 
  
 The other contender on my list was the Schiit Mjolnir at $849.00.


----------



## singleended58

It is an amazing amp. I have used a simple IEC power cord. iPhone 4S directly connected to RCA via ALO imod copper (no DAC in between). Listening with HE-400 and Skuld headphone cables of Norne Audio.
Sound is warm, musical, full mid-bass and deep bass.


----------



## Stillhart

grrorr76 said:


> no one can say why its amazing value thats why i gave up. So many times I have bought gear because of online opinions and a few times I have gotten a hit a few have been a miss.


 
  
 Nobody has it yet except a few people.  But nearly everyone who has heard it since Canjam in March has praised it.  In fact, this thread is the very first time I've heard someone less than 100% enthusiastic about it.  I agree with Michael that you were just looking for an excuse to cancel.  
  
 It's cool and all, I mean $600 is $600.  But to say that people haven't been wowed by it or praised it is kinda... incorrect.


----------



## grrorr76

stillhart said:


> Nobody has it yet except a few people.  But nearly everyone who has heard it since Canjam in March has praised it.  In fact, this thread is the very first time I've heard someone less than 100% enthusiastic about it.  I agree with Michael that you were just looking for an excuse to cancel.
> 
> It's cool and all, I mean $600 is $600.  But to say that people haven't been wowed by it or praised it is kinda... incorrect.


 

 I feel like I'm repeating myshelf a tad here. The reason I cancelled is not 1 person has said whats good about it. I really wanted to get this and build a balanced system around it. But when no one can express why its good. It has me scratching my head and thinking do I want to risk 600usd on this?  Its been really badly promoted and marketed were not all audio engineers who understand thd and impedance some of us want to know how the product will make us more engaged with our music and if so how. Im not a numbers man I have always been about feel. 
  
 Hey if this changed and I got the info I was after and it did deliver better sound stage detail warmth and feel. Id reorder it in a second. Its just I remain to be convinced.


----------



## bearFNF

Well, I, for one, ordered it because of the sound, size, features and it did a very good job at driving all the headphones I heard it with. I liked it and I know it will be an outstanding addition to my collection. However, I am not going to try to convince anyone to buy it as it is up to you to decide. (before you ask, no I will not go into more detail than I have in the various threads on it, suffice it to say I liked it well enough to buy it...)
  
 It's a shame you will not give it a try to find out or yourself. But, as has been said, it is your money...so your decision.


----------



## Stillhart

grrorr76 said:


> I feel like I'm repeating myshelf a tad here. The reason I cancelled is not 1 person has said whats good about it. I really wanted to get this and build a balanced system around it. But when no one can express why its good. It has me scratching my head and thinking do I want to risk 600usd on this?  Its been really badly promoted and marketed were not all audio engineers who understand thd and impedance some of us want to know how the product will make us more engaged with our music and if so how. Im not a numbers man I have always been about feel.
> 
> Hey if this changed and I got the info I was after and it did deliver better sound stage detail warmth and feel. Id reorder it in a second. Its just I remain to be convinced.


 
  
 Well I wrote a whole review on it (here on Head-fi), you can start there.  There's also a rather lengthy review on headphone.guru.  There are also three other LC threads (counting the DAC thread) where people who have heard it (like myself) have written about it many times and at length.  Then there are the impressions threads from RMAF, Canjam Socal and Canjam London.  I mean... all this info is out there.  To say that nobody has said what's good about it is ludicrous.
  
 And to repeat myself a tad as well, I'm perfectly find if you want to cancel.  I'm just calling you out on a statement that's objectively false.


----------



## grrorr76

stillhart said:


> Well I wrote a whole review on it (here on Head-fi), you can start there.  There's also a rather lengthy review on headphone.guru.  There are also three other LC threads (counting the DAC thread) where people who have heard it (like myself) have written about it many times and at length.  Then there are the impressions threads from RMAF, Canjam Socal and Canjam London.  I mean... all this info is out there.  To say that nobody has said what's good about it is ludicrous.
> 
> And to repeat myself a tad as well, I'm perfectly find if you want to cancel.  I'm just calling you out on a statement that's objectively false.


 

 Fact 1 before this I had never heard of the brand. We don't have cam jams in Australia , I had never seen it or heard it. 
         2 I googled the product and found one impression video which gave no info and that review was just hopeless
         3 I googled the product incessantly and found next to nothing baring the head-fi threads (hardly objective)
         4 The marketing of the product is lacking.  There are specs on the site etc but lets face it if any product in the real world went to the public with such lack of objective information it would be an abject failure .   
            We live in a big wide world now with a lot of choice you have to sell the experience to the customer . If one doesn't I go elsewhere and in the end thats why I cancelled. I will go with a more share thing even if I have to pay a bit more.


----------



## aamefford

grrorr76 said:


> I feel like I'm repeating myshelf a tad here. The reason I cancelled is not 1 person has said whats good about it. I really wanted to get this and build a balanced system around it. But when no one can express why its good. It has me scratching my head and thinking do I want to risk 600usd on this?  Its been really badly promoted and marketed were not all audio engineers who understand thd and impedance some of us want to know how the product will make us more engaged with our music and if so how. Im not a numbers man I have always been about feel.
> 
> Hey if this changed and I got the info I was after and it did deliver better sound stage detail warmth and feel. Id reorder it in a second. Its just I remain to be convinced.


 

 I've heard it.  It pairs nicely with the HE1000, Ether and Alpha Prime, Oppo PM-1's and Alex's Noble top of the line whatever they were items that I've heard it with.  What I like - It has an engaging quality that pulls me into the music more than many amps.  It is fun, engaging and not clinical.  I think what really sets it off, is to me, it has a very low noise floor that lets the notes rise out of a pretty black background.  Add to that the size and transportability, and It is a nice addition for me.  Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## zachawry

grrorr76 said:


> f any product in the real world went to the public with such lack of objective information it would be an abject failure .


 
  
 Head-fi isn't the "real world"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Like I said before, if you gave us a description of your system maybe somebody could offer an opinion as to whether or not the LC would be a decent improvement. 
  
 You didn't do that, you just keep waiting for us to convince you, even though you don't want to seem to be convinced. 
  
 I guess everybody has their own ways of killing time.


----------



## warrenpchi

Guys, it's cool.  If he wants to cancel, he totally can - and he'll never owe us (or anyone) a reason as to why.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That said, I personally think it's a bit premature to make a decision on that now, either way.  To my knowledge, only a few people have received their production units thus far, which means that only a handful of people are even remotely qualified to say anything at all.
  
 I have mine now (SN #00002 BITCHES! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I'm in the midst of listening and burning-in at the moment.  I'll be posting impressions of the Carbon with an LCD-X, both ETHERs, and an Abyss when I'm ready.  Then, I'll probably throw in some CIEM impressions into the mix after that.  But I'd rather gather detailed and accurate impressions than throw out some cursory thoughts.  I would imagine that many of you who have the production Carbon right now feel the same as I do?  Oh... and since I have a prototype Carbon here, I might as well cover some comparisons between the prototype version and the production version.  But none of this will happen overnight.
  
 However, if anyone wants to know how I feel about the production Carbon after 2 hours, I would say that I think this amp is tragically mis-named.  It sounds far more like a Liquid Silver than it does a Liquid Carbon.  But then again, I don't think most people would get the reference had they not spent some time with a Liquid Gold.
  
  


aamefford said:


> What I like - It has an engaging quality that pulls me into the music more than many amps.  It is fun, engaging and not clinical.  I think what really sets it off, is to me, it has a very low noise floor that lets the notes rise out of a pretty black background.  Add to that the size and transportability, and It is a nice addition for me.  Hope this helps a bit.


 
  
 Aaron, the production is blacker than any of the protos that I've heard, noticeably so.  I think you'll be pleased!


----------



## AustinValentine

My own production unit will be here sometime this week -- so I'm pretty pumped about it. Can't wait to get it in and paired with the Gumby. Just going to copy my impressions from August over to this thread for utility's sake: 
  


austinvalentine said:


> Yeah, I spent some time with it there too. It was paired up with a Questyle CMA800i DAC/Amp combo and a LH Pulse X Infinity. I used an Anax-modded HD800 off another enthusiasts table, a pair of Zach's ZMF Blackwoods, and my modded* HD650s (balanced)/LFF Paradox (SE)/Oppo PM-3 (SE). Music was fairly limited as most of Axel's music was still on his NAS but there was enough available to get a pretty good demo. Here's a shortish review based on the time I spent hogging it:
> 
> *1. *I preferred the LC on the Questyle. I never thought I'd ever say this about a Sabre implementation but the Infinity's treble was a bit too laid back when paired with the LC. The Questyle's Wolfson implementation hit it just right. I wish I'd have been able to pair it with my Gungnir and a decent R2R DAC (like the Yggy at the other end of the room that Steve brought on a UPS to keep warmed up), but meet conditions, time, etc. etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## aamefford

warrenpchi said:


> -Snipped-
> 
> Aaron, the production is blacker than any of the protos that I've heard, noticeably so.  I think you'll be pleased!


 
 Now that is great to hear.  More (uh, less?) of what I like best about the amp.  I am really hoping at 699 I'm in group 2.  I am also ampless at the moment due to some liquidating.  I'm really trying not to buy another amp right now....


----------



## aqsw

zachawry said:


> *Head-fi isn't the "real world"?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yea, That's the one that has me puzzled too. If Head Fi isn't the real world when it comes to headphones and headphone amps. WHAT IS ?
  
 I agree, looking for an excuse to get his $$ back. The thing is "you didn't need an excuse".


----------



## Drew3627

For those whom canceled ..Thanks!!! I had a listen to it for nearly two days  at CanJam and its amazing little amp for that price. My daughter is  in med school and had to take care of a few things for her before I placed a order. I got it in before they ran out at the listed price should pair well with my exogal comet


----------



## sling5s

drew3627 said:


> For those whom canceled ..Thanks!!! I had a listen to it for nearly two days  at CanJam and its amazing little amp for that price. My daughter is  in med school and had to take care of a few things for her before I placed a order. I got it in before they ran out at the listed price should pair well with my exogal comet


 

 The listed price is still the same and the amp still available on their website for reservation. Or did you mean for first batch?


----------



## defbear

For curious minds, order 578 serial 120 arrived today. OMG Fedex delivered first try. I opened the box, and it wasn't so much opening. It was more like 'Gutman' tearing at the Maltese Falcon. I've just hooked it up. I have not read any of today's posts so here we go. I'm a little amused as the manual says the LC needs 150 hours continuous break-in before it's sound signature can be judged. Also it sounds best with 15-30 minutes warm up. Well it's always good to put your best foot forward but nah, no way. I plugged the LC into my Emotiva DAC 1 using PYST balanced xrl's. I plugged my recent Macbook Pro via USB, running Audirvana Plus. I put on Lady Gaga's Artpop album tune 'Venus'. I know it inside out. There are tons of easter eggs to find and hear. Lots of reverbs and decays and the space to hear them. It's also has bass and is an EDM monster. So my first 'test' here is with a new out of the box stone cold LC and I could be in tears it's so good. I heard a new very low female voice I had not heard before in 'Venus'. I'm using hd800 headphones. I went through three tunes until at the end I was about to shout 'help i'm surrounded' Massive sound stage front, back, side to side. So now Im going to give it that 30 minute warmup and report later.

Ok 40 minutes later and im finding things in 'Do what ya want' with Christina and Gaga ive not heard. I'm thrilled. I'm floored. Pairs great with hd800s. I'm in fear of what shows up after 150 hours.


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> For curious minds, order 578 serial 120 arrived today. OMG Fedex delivered first try. I opened the box, and it wasn't so much opening. It was more like 'Gutman' tearing at the Maltese Falcon. I've just hooked it up. I have not read any of today's posts so here we go. I'm a little amused as the manual says the LC needs 150 hours continuous break-in before it's sound signature can be judged. Also it sounds best with 15-30 minutes warm up. Well it's always good to put your best foot forward but nah, no way. I plugged the LC into my Emotiva DAC 1 using PYST balanced xrl's. I plugged my recent Macbook Pro via USB, running Audirvana Plus. I put on Lady Gaga's Artpop album tune 'Venus'. I know it inside out. There are tons of easter eggs to find and hear. Lots of reverbs and decays and the space to hear them. It's also has bass and is an EDM monster. So my first 'test' here is with a new out of the box stone cold LC and I could be in tears it's so good. I heard a new very low female voice I had not heard before in 'Venus'. I'm using hd800 headphones. I went through three tunes until at the end I was about to shout 'help i'm surrounded' Massive sound stage front, back, side to side. So now Im going to give it that 30 minute warmup and report later.




Congrats and great news! Cheers


----------



## defbear

mscott58 said:


> Congrats and great news! Cheers


Thank you! Congrats to every one who scored a Liquid Carbon. It's a rock star.
Ok so Julie Cruse, the soft voiced jazz singer from Twin Peaks. 'The Voice of Love' again, I never heard her voice hold that note so high up there and longer than what I have heard. And the bass is incredible. I mean I have some nice expensive stuff. But this is dissapointing in how good it is.


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> Thank you! Congrats to every one who scored a Liquid Carbon. It's a rock star.
> Ok so Julie Cruse, the soft voiced jazz singer from Twin Peaks. 'The Voice of Love' again, I never heard her voice hold that note so high up there and longer than what I have heard. And the bass is incredible. I mean I have some nice expensive stuff. But this is dissapointing in how good it is.




I hate you because you have yours and I don't have mine.

:veryevil:


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> I hate you because you have yours and I don't have mine.
> 
> :veryevil:


OMG it's even better now. Don't hate me, just Despise me! :basshead:


----------



## defbear

I think over in the other thread i've talked about the sound. I just thought of this. I have hd800 and lcd2f headphones. The greatest hit's. The hd800's with the big soundstage and un-hyped bass can sound as if you have dissected a recording and are examining it. Or like you are listening to an exploded drawing of a track. like on Zep's "Good times bad times'. During the guitar solo there's guitar way over in your left phone. And Page is just dragging a finger across a couple of strings down the neck to make kind of a vroom sound. Or Mott the Hoople's Jerkin Crocus where Mick Ralph strums a stoke or two way over again on the left. All by itself. A little occasional guitar strum. Both example sound fine in Mono or the car with a normal sound system. Just minor instrumental parts put there just to fatten things up. But with many amps the parts sound disconnected. For what I've heard so far, The Liquid Carbon sounds consolidated while providing a big detailed sound stage. I feel as if i'm surrounded. But everything sounds Whole.


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, 2 more days to go (according to my initial delivery notice...haven't tracked it since, tends to make me crazy to find out where in the country it's sitting). Curious to see how it compares to my MicroZOTL2 and RSA HR-2 for driving my HE-1000. Hoping I don't have too much hype letdown...


----------



## d1sturb3d

Hope to receive my twins too!


----------



## ejong7

#29 reporting for duty. First impressions is just WAOW. I've not heard it in prototype edition or even before I got my own unit but this surpassed all my expectations. Hooking this up to my Geek Pulse Infinity + LPS combo I've fallen in love with every single song playing through the system again. It brings back memories of the first time I tried the Liquid Gold, albeit probably not as technically refined but considering how much I paid for this I better surrender myself to the authorities cause I've just committed armed robbery.
  
 Now for some short ACTUAL IMPRESSIONS : Transparent as clear plastic, quietest background I've heard with my TH900s so far. Vocals just come out very natural but the bass thump is superb. I would say the general sound is that of an engaging neutral amp. It doesn't impart itself onto your headphones signature but it doesn't fail to surprise.


----------



## sling5s

Is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon a forward sounding amp? It was described this way by someone who just received theirs in the other Cavalli Liquid thread.
 First time reading someone describe it that way. Kind of worried.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

sling5s said:


> Is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon a forward sounding amp? It was described this way by someone who just received theirs in the other Cavalli Liquid thread.
> First time reading someone describe it that way. Kind of worried.


 
  
 I just got mine, and I really think its from being a really green amp.  Its going to take quite a while to get to 150 hours.
  
 ...and vocals are quite recessed out of the gate.  But ignore that considering the amp is 20 minutes old.


----------



## Clemmaster

sling5s said:


> Is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon a forward sounding amp? It was described this way by someone who just received theirs in the other Cavalli Liquid thread.
> First time reading someone describe it that way. Kind of worried.


 
  
 Unless - like me - you really want an amp that pushes the sound back in front of you, there's nothing to worry about; that's how most amps sound. Few, however, manage to draw you in the performance like the Cavalli amps do.


----------



## sling5s

clemmaster said:


> Unless - like me - you really want an amp that pushes the sound back in front of you, there's nothing to worry about; that's how most amps sound. Few, however, manage to draw you in the performance like the Cavalli amps do.


 
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> I just got mine, and I really think its from being a really green amp.  Its going to take quite a while to get to 150 hours.
> 
> ...and vocals are quite recessed out of the gate.  But ignore that considering the amp is 20 minutes old.


 

 I just fear the Schiit Audio kind of forward. They tend to be aggressive and harsh forward. I'm sure Cavalli is not this way.


----------



## warrenpchi

I've just entered hour 66 67 of burn-in.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
_EDIT:  Oops, bad at maths._


----------



## swspiers

warrenpchi said:


> I've just entered hour 66 67 of burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Okay.  Hourly updates.
  
 Thanks for taking one for the team!


----------



## defbear

sling5s said:


> Is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon a forward sounding amp? It was described this way by someone who just received theirs in the other Cavalli Liquid thread.
> First time reading someone describe it that way. Kind of worried.


It may have been me but not to worry. This is nothing like the Schiit forward edgy sound I hear from my bifrost uber / Lyr2 stack. I'm breaking it in with hd800's usually on my head. Love it.


----------



## sling5s

defbear said:


> It may have been me but not to worry. This is nothing like the Schiit forward edgy sound I hear from my bifrost uber / Lyr2 stack. I'm breaking it in with hd800's usually on my head. Love it.


 

 No it's someone else who just posted. But thanks for the assurance.


----------



## digitalzed

sling5s said:


> Is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon a forward sounding amp? It was described this way by someone who just received theirs in the other Cavalli Liquid thread.
> First time reading someone describe it that way. Kind of worried.


 

 I'm not trying to be a jerk, but was is "forward sounding"? I really want to know.


----------



## purk

digitalzed said:


> I'm not trying to be a jerk, but was is "forward sounding"? I really want to know.


 
 I think it has to do with regard to how the soundstage is voiced.  A better word maybe an intimate or laid back presentation.


----------



## sling5s

purk said:


> I think it has to do with regard to how the soundstage is voiced.  A better word maybe an intimate or laid back presentation.


 

 But "forward" and "laid back" are opposites.


----------



## Clemmaster

That's right! The sound is *intimate*. "Front row" presentation.
  
 It's probably less scary for people to read that, than _forward_. I didn't mean forward as in _aggressive_ (like people would describe the Mjolnir), just forward as in the singer is right next to you and the sound stage is enveloping you.
 I rather a more laid-back presentation, where everything is pushed back (sitting in row 10). That's my preference, not the amp's weakness.


----------



## Mr Rick

sling5s said:


> But "forward" and "laid back" are opposites.


 
  
 I'm sure both are possible depending on source and source material. The LC is transparent and adds nothing and takes nothing away.


----------



## bearFNF

digitalzed said:


> I'm not trying to be a jerk, but was is "forward sounding"? I really want to know.


 
 This might help (from the glossary of terms http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary , just so we are all on the same page):
  
 Forward(ness) - Similar to an aggressive sound, a sense of image being projected in front of the speakers and of music being forced upon the listener. Compare "Laid-back".
 Aggressive - Forward and bright sonic character
 Laid-back - Recessed, distant-sounding, having exaggerated depth, usually because of a dished midrange. Compare "Forward".


----------



## digitalzed

Thanks you guys for helping me understand better. It's very helpful. I'm about 30 hours into my LC and I would say that at this moment it is a little forward, especially on vocals. But this is an initial impression only and expect it to need the 150 or so hours Alex says it needs in order to find its voice. So far, plenty of power and punch, just needs to really settle in and find the depth I believe will be there.


----------



## purk

sling5s said:


> But "forward" and "laid back" are opposites.


 
 I should have said "opposite" but you got the idea.


----------



## sling5s

clemmaster said:


> That's right! The sound is *intimate*. "Front row" presentation.
> 
> It's probably less scary for people to read that, than _forward_. I didn't mean forward as in _aggressive_ (like people would describe the Mjolnir), just forward as in the singer is right next to you and the sound stage is enveloping you.
> I rather a more laid-back presentation, where everything is pushed back (sitting in row 10). That's my preference, not the amp's weakness.


 

 Much better. That puts me in ease and puts a smile on my face. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I love front low.


----------



## immtbiker

I have a 3 hour window that no one will be home to receive it from FedEx Home Delivery. I am calling in all my "good boy" markers, hoping the audio gods will be kind to me.
  
 "Pretty, pretty please, with Liquid carbon on top"!


----------



## doctorjazz

Supposed to come tomorrow, I'm prepared to HATE IT!!!!!!


----------



## cskippy

doctorjazz said:


> Supposed to come tomorrow, I'm prepared to HATE IT!!!!!!


 
 Then you can send it my way!


----------



## santacore

How are you guys finding the amp in the bass department? The first day I thought it was a bit sloppy, but haven't thought about it much since, which means it's improving. Hopefully the TH900's will match well after burn in, if not, back to my Bryston. I do love how musical this LC is though.


----------



## musiclvr

So I am going to follow the owner's manual directions and burn in the LC sans a headphone. I am just going to change the music I have playing in a loop every 12 hours or so.....for the next 6 days!!! Hahaha I must say the LC looks gorgeous in hand and up close, especially so.


----------



## dpump

Is it safe to leave phones plugged in when you turn the LC on or off? That is, do you hear any power-on or power-off noise that might be dangerous for the phones?


----------



## Ham Sandwich

sling5s said:


> Is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon a forward sounding amp? It was described this way by someone who just received theirs in the other Cavalli Liquid thread.
> First time reading someone describe it that way. Kind of worried.


 
  
 The Liquid Carbon is not a forward sounding amp. It has a Cavalli style sound. To me a Cavalli style sound is a sort of setbackedness combined with a blending and smoothness. The Liquid Carbon has those traits.
  
 I got my Liquid Carbon on Tuesday. Been listening with LCD-2 Rev2 balanced with a Schiit Gumby balanced. The amp is more forward in high gain mode (3X) than in low gain mode (1X). If someone has been listening to the amp in high gain mode only they might consider it more forward than someone who has been listening to it in low gain mode. For me the low gain mode combined with the balanced Gumby and balanced LCD-2 rev2 gets plenty loud with the amp in low gain mode. I haven't tried listening yet with other headphones or others sources. I don't want to offer much more in terms of listening impressions until it has burned in. I will offer that bass seems to have gotten a bit stronger and more present with the limited burn-in that's between Tuesday and now. And that bass seems to get stronger in high gain mode. It would be unfair to the amp to get too critical of it before it has had an opportunity to properly burn-in. I know it's going to continue to get a little better. I just don't know how much.
  
 Even without waiting for full burn-in this is a great little transportable amp for the style of sound I'm after. I'm going to be visiting family over Christmas and I know this is going to be the amp I'll be bringing with me.


----------



## doctorjazz

cskippy said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Supposed to come tomorrow, I'm prepared to HATE IT!!!!!!
> ...




Sure, just send along $1000
heheheheheheheh


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Sure, just send along $1000
> heheheheheheheh


If I could not get another LC I would not sell mine for $1000.00. The Emotive Dac 1 I am enjoying is on sale now for $399.00 on sale. Add a LC at $599.00 and you have an amazing setup for $998.00.


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, just send along $1000
> ...




Dem's strong words!
Getting mine today, at least that was the original arrival date, haven't been following the tracking, just makes me crazy. Hopefully I feel the same way.


----------



## doctorjazz

Oops, they tried to deliver, my wife was out this morning, looks like I don't get it until tomorrow...:mad:


----------



## defbear

I mean, if there's 50 left I would sell mine and then wait until New Years for another.  But then I got one of the 'Good Ones', the soon to be legendary 'First Batch'.

It is to laugh - Daffy Duck
They are all good ones - defbear


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Oops, they tried to deliver, my wife was out this morning, looks like I don't get it until tomorrow...:mad:


I HATE THAT! Did anyone read my rant about Fedex. OK so yesterday I was expecting 10 packages shipped via Fedex. They arrived...via the Hollywood Shipping Company! Nothing wrong there. Probably far more reliable than Fedex.


----------



## singleended58

defbear said:


> I HATE THAT! Did anyone read my rant about Fedex. OK so yesterday I was expecting 10 packages shipped via Fedex. They arrived...via the Hollywood Shipping Company! Nothing wrong there. Probably far more reliable than Fedex.




Mine was delivered somewhere (distributor?) from Los Angeles not Texas?!


----------



## bearFNF

singleended58 said:


> Mine was delivered somewhere (distributor?) from Los Angeles not Texas?!


 
 See this post from Alex.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3780#post_12073289


----------



## x RELIC x

Lol! This thread is turning out to be like the other LC threads. Where's the initial impressions? Burn in impressions? Pairing impressions?

Aaaaarg, waiting........ I have no patience is my impression so far. Gotta live through current owners in the mean time. 



*IMPRESSIONS*​

Edit: The word impressions looks funny after a while.


----------



## doctorjazz

Current owners are waiting to be current owners...as I mentioned, mine was just delivered today, but, as my wife wasn't in, was taken back without delivery. Maybe I'll luck out tomorrow (can't tell my wife to not leave the house all day without getting a frying pan over my head...)


----------



## imackler

This thread simulates the impression of waiting for those who haven't been able to pre-order. Its like a review of the waiting process. Its different from waiting for other products. I can tell.  
  
 Seriously, though, I've never been tempted to spend so much on an amp... It looks like its still available.


----------



## doctorjazz

imackler said:


> [CONTENTEMBED=/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/90#post_12090839 layout=inline]This thread simulates the impression of waiting for those who haven't been able to pre-order. Its like a review of the waiting process. Its different from waiting for other products. I can tell.  [/CONTENTEMBED]
> [CONTENTEMBED=/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/90#post_12090839 layout=inline] [/CONTENTEMBED]
> [CONTENTEMBED=/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/90#post_12090839 layout=inline]Seriously, though, I've never been tempted to spend so much on an amp... It looks like its still available. [/CONTENTEMBED]




spent more on the MicroZOTL2 (about twice as much), the buzz on this had me jump in as well, curious how they compare IF I EVER GET IT FROM THE DELIVERY PEOPLE. :mad:


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Sadly, I don't think impressions will flood yet.  I'm very cautious to say anything just because I've already heard changes (for the positive) and I'm only at hour 3...


----------



## runeight

At this point about 110 units have landed somewhere. Most of these are Fedex. The rest of those should land fairly soon. The USPS shipments (a much smaller number) should arrive over the next week.
  
 So, there are quite a few amps out there in people's hands to get a wide set of impressions.


----------



## Mr Rick

buttuglyjeff said:


> Sadly, I don't think impressions will flood yet.  I'm very cautious to say anything just because I've already heard changes (for the positive) and I'm only at hour 3...


 
  
 I've given my impressions earlier but I feel they may not have been well received. In single ended mode using HE400S, X2s and other HPs the LC sounds equivalent to my Schiit Asgard 2. As an Objectivist at heart I expected this to be the case.
  
 In balanced mode I've listened to the LC with HD650s and HD800s. Again I hear little difference from amp to amp. This comparison may be apples and oranges as the LC is the only balanced amp I currently own.
  
 I've had the LC running virtually continuously since it's arrival on Saturday.  
  
 It's a wonderful amp with features and capabilities I lack on other amps. I purchased it for those capabilities and certainly feel I've gotten my money's worth.


----------



## x RELIC x

buttuglyjeff said:


> Sadly, I don't think impressions will flood yet.  I'm very cautious to say anything just because I've already heard changes (for the positive) and I'm only at hour 3...




That's the point. What are the impressions from start to end? I'm a bit later in the cue and can wait for my shipment notice but I just think it's funny that an impressions thread gets chalk full with everything but impressions, regardless of how many people have one yet. If it were me I'd post the shipping and general talk in the other threads and try to keep this one for getting a sense of what to expect with the amp. 

I want to be clear that I'm not complaining about it at all, just making an observation on the state of things that inevitably happens when an impressions thread opens in the early stages.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

x relic x said:


> That's the point. What are the impressions from start to end? I'm a bit later in the cue and can wait for my shipment notice but I just think it's funny that an impressions thread gets chalk full with everything but impressions, regardless of how many people have one yet. If it were me I'd post the shipping and general talk in the other threads and try to keep this one for getting a sense of what to expect with the amp.
> 
> I want to be clear that I'm not complaining about it at all, just making an observation on the state of things that inevitably happens when an impressions thread opens in the early stages.


 
  
 Well okay.  I'll say this, its smaller and lighter then expected.  It weighs about the same as my HiFi-M8, and I was surprised.  It also gets warmer then I expected, so one might consider not stacking.  And that's most likely good advice anyways because of the lack of feet, and it will scratch/scuff whatever you put it on top of...
  
 I'm using my MDR-Z7, so I'm sure you others with your TOTLs might experience things differently.  Luckily all my headphones are balanced so even though I'm burning the amp in while listening, I can stay away from single ended burn in, just like Alex recommends.
  
 My first album was the new Nate Ratliff and the Night Sweats album.  And as a green amp, I was hearing the vocals as greatly recessed.  And to add to that point, the soundstaging was "smooshed" in front but better spaced to the sides.  I decided to fiddle with my HiFi-M8's setting (a little less hot), and dropped the gain on the LC.  And things improved somewhat.  I finished that album and I was noticing how crisp the percussion instruments were.  The clapping was so strong it almost started sounding just a touch wet, but not in a bad way.  All was quite engaging.
  
 I went back to this album after a couple more hours and the vocals and soundstage improved a noticed bit.  Which is why I'm far from reserving judgement.
  
 Also, I noticed some odor coming from the LC.  I assume its just the amp components settling in for the task at hand.
  
 Please take everything with a grain of salt, this amp has 197 hours to go.....


----------



## doctorjazz

Frankly, as far as this being an impressions thread, I'm not sure why this little baby needs THREE threads. People will randomly post wherever they happen to be in at any point, any way. Is there any reason impressions couldn't be in the regular Liquid Carbon thread? Why have to click back and forth between the 3 different threads? Seems silly to me, but that's just me...


----------



## atsq17

doctorjazz said:


> Frankly, as far as this being an impressions thread, I'm not sure why this little baby needs THREE threads. People will randomly post wherever they happen to be in at any point, any way. Is there any reason impressions couldn't be in the regular Liquid Carbon thread? Why have to click back and forth between the 3 different threads? Seems silly to me, but that's just me...


 
  
 A counter argument is that if I want impressions and not a whole bunch of random discussions I know to come here and not have to go through pages and pages of irrelevant posts.


----------



## aqsw

T​


atsq17 said:


> A counter argument is that if I want impressions and not a whole bunch of random discussions I know to come here and not have to go through pages and pages of irrelevant posts.




I totally agree. Impressions thread is just that!


It's hard to keep people on topic on most threads. On an impressions thread, it (should) be much easier.


----------



## d1sturb3d

I think most of the people who received their LC are still burning in their units..my 2 units are received now by the courier and hopefully will fly over the weekend so I can receive it next week.


----------



## doctorjazz

Doesn't matter to me, but from hanging around these threads for a while now, seems a fantasy that people will stay meticulously on topic. Why, even the Deals Thread had to be closed down multiple times because of discussion, and eventually the mods just gave up and created a Deals Discussion thread, sanctioning the other discussion that happens anyway. Human nature, I suppose.


----------



## immtbiker

The Eagle…I repeat…The Eagle has landed! 
  
 It will now sit in a corner and stew like a naughty boy for 4 days, until it is ready to come out and play nice with the big boys


----------



## immtbiker

One thing though, mine has the labels put on upside down….maybe it will become a collector's model.


----------



## rpaul

immtbiker said:


> One thing though, mine has the labels put on upside down….maybe it will become a collector's model.


 
  
 Flip it over, labels will be right side up (it's upside down in your pic).
 Unless this is a joke relating to the fact that it doesn't come with feet so its orientation is ambiguous...


----------



## Mr Rick

immtbiker said:


> One thing though, mine has the labels put on upside down….maybe it will become a collector's model.


 
 In fact, you are looking at the back side. Everyone knows the on-off switch is on the back.


----------



## immtbiker

mr rick said:


> In fact, you are looking at the back side. Everyone knows the on-off switch is on the back.


 

 Ohhh…that's what it is…thanks.
  
 Has anyone had any luck trying to find the digital manual .url that is advertised in the box. The link doesn't work for me on any device.
  
 https://www.cavalliaudio/liquidcarbon/manual


----------



## tuxbass

immtbiker said:


> Ohhh…that's what it is…thanks.
> 
> Has anyone had any luck trying to find the digital manual .url that is advertised in the box. The link doesn't work for me on any device.
> 
> https://www.cavalliaudio/liquidcarbon/manual


 
 Add .com after cavalliaudio
 https://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


----------



## Lorspeaker

Is the sound refined...microdetails?


----------



## LajostheHun

tuxbass said:


> Add .com after cavalliaudio
> https://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


 
 Thanks they misprinted it.


----------



## immtbiker

tuxbass said:


> Add .com after cavalliaudio
> https://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


 
 Thank you!


----------



## tuxbass

immtbiker said:


> Thank you!


 
 You are welcome !
 Enjoy the Amp, the manual is all I got for now


----------



## pippen99

The LC has been running now for about 7 hours.  I listened to one album (Steely Dan- Gaucho) and then let it burn for another 5 hours.  Just finished Don Henley Cass County.  I am hearing basically the same signature as the prototype I had for a week in September.  Great dynamics with fine detail and what I like to call presence.  If the LC improves with more use over the next 150 hours the production unit will surpass the prototype I got to try out.  This is a great amp!


----------



## defbear

lorspeaker said:


> Is the sound refined...microdetails?


Microdetails? Yes, in buckets. Listening with my Macbook Pro and audirvana via usb attached to my emotiva dac 1. Then balanced outputs from emotiva to the LC. HD800 balanced phones. Loaded for balanced bear. In one of Lady Gaga's full blown dance numbers, there is a pause in the action for a short spoken word moment. She says 'I can't believe I'm telling you this but I've had a couple of drinks and oh my God'. Lovely. When I listen to my Master 11 the song sounds like you are 8-10 rows back immersed in the music. In the spoken piece Gaga voice sounds intimate and unified with the whole track. Switch to the Emotiva / LC combo and you are right in front of Gaga. Of course I can hear her voice but I hear the resonance of the microphone, the air of the room and her lips parting. Microdetails. The amp is incredibly musical at the same time. This amp simply swings. Foot tapping rocking back and forth. Lots of Bass with the hd800's. Listening to this setup is like looking thru a glass egg and seeing all the colors and bubbles. 
Refined? Probably but refined is wearing a tux. Refined is killing with the edge instead of the tip. This thing is a perfectly pressed Shark skin suit containing Noki Edwards.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

lorspeaker said:


> Is the sound refined...microdetails?


 
  
 Yes and yes.
 At the same time an amp like the Cavalli Liquid Fire is more refined and lets you hear more microdetails. So it depends on where you set your standard for refinement and microdetails. The people with the big Cavalli amps needn't fear that their big amps have been matched by a little amp.


----------



## conquerator2

Is it smooth in the treble?


----------



## immtbiker

conquerator2 said:


> Is it smooth in the treble?


 
 A little bright out of the box...but as with most of my quality components, I'm sure it will tame after some hours.
  
 If I was asked to pick one asset that this amp excels in right out of the box, is an amazing amount of detail retrieval! I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet, but there is something going on in the sound signature,
 that it is allowing the Carbon to produce crystal clean, satisfying mids. It might be the fact that the upper bass frequencies (~200 - 1000?) aren't bloated or boomy, and they aren't mucking down the mid-range frequencies.
  
 This will take some seriously dedicated, further investigative techniques. It's a tough job that will take hours of dedication, but hell, someone has to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This must be the famous "Cavalli house sound" that I've been hearing of.


----------



## doctorjazz

Delivery attempt #2 this morning, again when my wife was out of the house (and she's home a lot), one more try tomorrow. I wouldn't mind them leaving it, they don't allow it, must be signed for. !@!*!#&^$%#&@$^*#&^!!!!!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

doctorjazz said:


> Delivery attempt #2 this morning, again when my wife was out of the house (and she's home a lot), one more try tomorrow. I wouldn't mind them leaving it, they don't allow it, must be signed for. !@!*!#&^$%#&@$^*#&^!!!!!


 
  
 How close are you to the Fedex station?


----------



## singleended58

x relic x said:


> Lol! This thread is turning out to be like the other LC threads. Where's the initial impressions? Burn in impressions? Pairing impressions?
> 
> Aaaaarg, waiting........ I have no patience is my impression so far. Gotta live through current owners in the mean time.
> 
> ...


----------



## doctorjazz

buttuglyjeff said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Delivery attempt #2 this morning, again when my wife was out of the house (and she's home a lot), one more try tomorrow. I wouldn't mind them leaving it, they don't allow it, must be signed for. !@!*!#
> ...




Don't know, have to check on it, work hours definitely make it difficult (working tomorrow morning again). 



singleended58 said:


> x relic x said:
> 
> 
> > Lol! This thread is turning out to be like the other LC threads. Where's the initial impressions? Burn in impressions? Pairing impressions?
> ...




People are JUST GETTING the LC, just about to get it, starting burn in, impressions are preliminary at best, if you have one to listen to yet. Takes a bit (really, reviewers in the audio mags live with gear for a few months before writing reviews...I've been guilty of posting initial impressions, which changed as I got to know the gear, just sayin')


----------



## Mr Rick

I invite a moderator to come in and clean out anything not deemed an impression.


----------



## defbear

mr rick said:


> I invite a moderator to come in and clean out anything not deemed an impression.


Oh let the people talk. I've already turned the course with my Microdetails Impression.
For my next impression I'll do Buddy Rich 'I'm Bitchen' don't touch my drums' 
Here's another. 'A woman came up to me and said Mister I'll do anything you want for a hundred bucks. I said paint my house' - Henny Youngman

So for my next impression I'm testing lcd2-f's and will report back.


----------



## Clemmaster

The LC draws you in the performance. You're hypnotized and forced to hear everything. I call that rape! And I want more!
  
 Those with the SA-31 will know what I'm talking about. The LC is a tad clearer and more intimate.


----------



## conquerator2

So how different to the SA31 it is?


----------



## mscott58

Came home from London to find my LC was here!

Here's #133 in its new home. The box on top is for dampening and also weight to keep the LC from moving since the cables I've used are pretty big and risk moving the LC around. Also put a sheet of silicone under it versus feet. 



And here's what's feeding it via balanced outputs. 



May the burn-in begin!

Cheers


----------



## purk

immtbiker said:


> *A little bright out of the box...but as with most of my quality components, I'm sure it will tame after some hours.*
> 
> If I was asked to pick one asset that this amp excels in right out of the box, is an amazing amount of detail retrieval! I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet, but there is something going on in the sound signature,
> that it is allowing the Carbon to produce crystal clean, satisfying mids. It might be the fact that the upper bass frequencies (~200 - 1000?) aren't bloated or boomy, and they aren't mucking down the mid-range frequencies.
> ...


 
  
 This has been my experience as well, and yes I believe it will smooth out once components have settled in.  So far it doesn't quite measure up my larger balanced amps but it has impressed the heck out of me given its asking price.  I only have 20 hours on it so far so I hope it will continue to get better.


----------



## immtbiker

mr rick said:


> I invite a moderator to come in and clean out anything not deemed an impression.


 

 You want me to delete some of my own posts? Blasphemy! 
  
 As soon as the first group starts reporting detailed impressions, I will prune the thread so that new people don't have to sift.
  
 For now, living vicariously is all that some people have to cling to.


----------



## mikemercer

First Impression (detailed ones coming - just bangin' away at another article I gotta get done to pay the bills):
  
 Considering how much I enjoyed the liquid-like (sorry for the product name-pun there fellas) midrange textures of the OG Liquid Carbon:

 - along with the extended, controlled bottom-end and, IMHO, crystalline highs  - I have to say the Carbon has, thank God, met all my expectations, and is actually exceeding many of them! Unlike Audeze's LCD-4, in my limited time with it (sorry - had to ventilate freely for a second)...
  
 The final product, compared to the units available for audition at CanJam SoCal, is superior out-the-gate when it comes to it's resolving capabilities. It's also got more dynamic bite in the lower-mids, and sounds more forward, more direct but it's not aggressive or harsh at all.
 Admittedly, I haven't read back for other impressions, and of course I'll do so as always - but I like to scribe a bit about my first impression before reading anybody else's - like I do w/ gear and music reviews...
  
 Now - I own (and YES, bought) Cavalli's awesome LAu - which is my current top-ranked reference for all my work. I never say "best" as peeps who know me realize - as it's all subjective cuz we're listening to music, no matter what, at the end of the day. But I've been around a long time. Cavalli's got this magic in the mids in his solid-state designs much like Tim DeParavicini does in his tube gear. It holographic, but not overly-analytical. It's resolute, but not too damn polite like so many audiophile systems. If I were to be pressed to try and describe a Cavalli "house sound" - which I F___in hate - but if pressed: I'd say his use of the word liquid in his products could be one of the most befitting product names I know of. All his amps, to me thus far - and the Carbon is no exception - exhibit this soulful, sweet sound, but its isn't overly colored or veiled in order to achieve some sort of sonic masking that some will love, and others hate. Cavalli seems to design like a true DIYer does (which is his background in headphone amps, let's not forget) - he seems to chase the music and not the latest curve or sound signature that's popular at the moment.
  
 I'm a freakin' music addict who got into hi-fi and the music biz cuz I found out that higher fidelity enhances the musical experience.
 To me - as of now (a full day) I can't think of another desktop amplifier, large-scale or transportable like this, near this price range that even comes CLOSE.
 Just my 2 cents thus far. And I'm just using the lil' ALO KEY USB DAC (up to 32-bit/384kHz) - and this combo is so freakin' cheap - especially when I consider othee products in that range? It sounds like a no brainer to me.
  
 I'm also using my MrSpeakers ETHER-Cs, Audeze LCD2Fs, and Sennheiser HD800s - all wired w/ Double Helix Cables Comp4 spore. 
  
 More detailed impressions comin!!


----------



## digitalzed

Just a short update: 72 hours in and the LC is beginning to really blossom. Vocals are not as forward as they were initially but still amazingly full and much more balanced in the mix to my ears. Detail in presentation and separation of vocals and instruments is smile inducing. I've been going back and forth between my Ether's and LCD-X's and between the Pulse Infinity and the LC. Initially the Pulse Infinity, which is never turned off and fully broken in, beat the LC noticeably in the richness of presentation. An overall more satisfying listening experience. But the LC has a better pace and is quicker and clearer in the highs and is filling in on the bass and overall presentation. Looking forward to the next 72 hours!


----------



## sling5s

How does the Cavalli Liquid Carbon (being transportable) stack up against full size desktop amps like: Violectric V220/V200, Schiit Lyr 2, Gustard H10, Woo Audio WA6-SE or Meir Concerto, (only because these are the ones I'm familiar with)?


----------



## pippen99

sling5s said:


> How does the Cavalli Liquid Carbon (being transportable) stack up against full size desktop amps like: Violectric V220/V200, Schiit Lyr 2, Gustard H10, Woo Audio WA6-SE or Meir Concerto, (only because these are the ones I'm familiar with)?


 
 I can only speak to the Gustard H10.  The prototype I had was way beyond the H10 and the production model LC if it keeps improving during burn-in will outpace the prototype.  The LC has a much more dynamic presentation with a clear edge in details.  The bass is much more well defined.  Even after swapping opamps the LC is much better.  I am going to wait until burn-in is complete and make sure everything is good and then the Gustard X12/H10 stack will go on the For Sale forum.  Definitely an upgrade!!


----------



## sling5s

pippen99 said:


> I can only speak to the Gustard H10.  The prototype I had was way beyond the H10 and the production model LC if it keeps improving during burn-in will outpace the prototype.  The LC has a much more dynamic presentation with a clear edge in details.  The bass is much more well defined.  Even after swapping opamps the LC is much better.  I am going to wait until burn-in is complete and make sure everything is good and then the Gustard X12/H10 stack will go on the For Sale forum.  Definitely an upgrade!!


 

 Thank you, and much appreciated.
 I actually think the Gustard H10 is a really good amp (both regardless of the price and especially for the price), so that is saying a lot about the LC.
 Really great to hear and really looking forward to mine arriving.


----------



## pippen99

sling5s said:


> Thank you, and much appreciated.
> I actually think the Gustard H10 is a really good amp (both regardless of the price and especially for the price), so that is saying about the LC.
> Really great to hear and really looking forward to mine arriving.


 
 I agree completely with what you say.  The H10 punches way above it's weight class.  Plus you can have a lot of fun swapping out opamps at a fraction of the cost of tube rolling.  It is a great choice for someone on a tight budget.


----------



## jamato8

mr rick said:


> My first observation:
> 
> Adding balanced cables to my HD650 and using the balanced output of the LC has given my HD650s new life. Always seemed my HD650s were a bit flat. No longer.
> 
> Later this evening I'll try my HD800 with balanced cables out of the LC.


 

 The only way I can enjoy the HD650 at all is balanced. They are a totally different headphone and should only be sold balanced. lol 
  
 Looking forward to when mine inches its way to me.


----------



## nanoevil

Will be posting my impressions tomorrow...still jetlag from a 12 hour flight

Initial listen was only using the dx90 as source and my hugo wasn't in the mix as there were no rca cables in my parents house...will need to get one somewhere...from what I heard I'm loving it! 

Leaving it on for burn in while I sleep


----------



## defbear

Has anyone tried the LC with Fostex TH-900's? Especially balanced.


----------



## ejong7

defbear said:


> Has anyone tried the LC with Fostex TH-900's? Especially balanced.


 

 That is exactly the combo I use in balanced and it sounds superb. What really shocked me was how it plays well with the 'recessed' mids of the TH900's due to the engaging nature of the amp.


----------



## immtbiker

I am having problems trying to drive my HE1000's and HD800's in unbalanced output mode, from a source (AK240) with modest output. There is not enough power (in 3X gain) to drive either one properly.
  
 With the 800's I need to go up to 3:00 on the volume knob, and even though it starts to get loud, the power is not adequate enough to make the 800's come to potential. With my HE1000's, the drivers start to distort as soon as I get to the point of making it loud enough @2:00 (but not extremely loud). I feared that I had a driver problem in my HEKs, so I switched over to my high powered setup (Macbook/Lampi/Wells) and had no distortion on the 1000's at volumes well above what I was driving on the Carbon. Also, I tried to connect the output of my Lampi DAC single ended into the Carbon, and the distortion was extreme into my 1000's at any volume above 9:00.
  
 There is some sort of mis-match going on with the 1000 ortho and the Carbon output circuitry.
  
 Maybe someone else with a 1000 and the Carbon can try this and report back if they are experiencing the same thing. Regardless of the HEK problem, the only way that I can listen happily to my HD800s, is to use the 4-Pin balanced output option, which is not good if you are only running single-ended.


----------



## sheldaze

immtbiker said:


> Maybe someone else with a 1000 and the Carbon can try this and report back if they are experiencing the same thing. Regardless of the HEK problem, the only way that I can listen happily to my HD800s, is to use the 4-Pin balanced output option, which is not good if you are only running single-ended.


 
 Use the 4-pin output because it is four-times the power. Doesn't matter how the input is sourced. I do feel I'm missing something through 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'd be willing to try any of the inputs to the Carbon, which is currently burning in (with occasional listen to my HE1K), including feeding it input from a couple of DAP options (FiiO X3 or Pono) through either the RCA or the 1/8" phono. But I tried single-ended output (to HD650) with a demo Carbon that I had a few weeks ago, and I immediately went back to the balanced outputs. Even on the HD650, what a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT: Corrected output ratio.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm not finding that to be the case with the balanced output on the LC with the HEK, am burning the LC now (hooked to iPod Nano and HEK with Zoetic balanced cable). I posted a bit on the other LC thread about initial impressions and comparisons (too much to keep up with the 3 LC threads). I'll dig up the single ended adapter for the HEK and give it a try (though, the LC is supposed to be designed mainly to be used in balanced, that's the reason I ordered the Zoetic balanced, with adapters for single ended and Pono balanced). Report back in a bit...


----------



## bearFNF

immtbiker said:


> I am having problems trying to drive my HE1000's and HD800's in unbalanced output mode, from a source (AK240) with modest output. There is not enough power (in 3X gain) to drive either one properly.


 
  
  


sheldaze said:


> Use the 4-pin output because it is twice the power. Doesn't matter how the input is sourced. I do feel I'm missing something through
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 From the LC manual:"Note that the SE output, which comes from half of each channel, only delivers *¼ the power *of the balanced output."


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, quick impression, single ended isn't terrible, no obvious distortion on my set up. Have Bowie's "Modern Love" from the iPod (just shufflin') volume set up to about 11 O Clock area. Doesn't sound as good, though, stage flattens, narrows, tone color not as rich, images flatter, not as involving a sound (balanced volume down to slightly past the 9 AM, not as much as you'd expect). Now Aimee Mann "It's Not" shuffled along...I could listen single ended, not objectionable, balanced is better, though.
Maybe there is something wrong with your unit?



immtbiker said:


> I am having problems trying to drive my HE1000's and HD800's in unbalanced output mode, from a source (AK240) with modest output. There is not enough power (in 3X gain) to drive either one properly.
> 
> With the 800's I need to go up to 3:00 on the volume knob, and even though it starts to get loud, the power is not adequate enough to make the 800's come to potential. With my HE1000's, the drivers start to distort as soon as I get to the point of making it loud enough @2:00 (but not extremely loud). I feared that I had a driver problem in my HEKs, so I switched over to my high powered setup (Macbook/Lampi/Wells) and had no distortion on the 1000's at volumes well above what I was driving on the Carbon. Also, I tried to connect the output of my Lampi DAC single ended into the Carbon, and the distortion was extreme into my 1000's at any volume above 9:00.
> 
> ...


----------



## runeight

immtbiker said:


> I am having problems trying to drive my HE1000's and HD800's in unbalanced output mode, from a source (AK240) with modest output. There is not enough power (in 3X gain) to drive either one properly.
> 
> With the 800's I need to go up to 3:00 on the volume knob, and even though it starts to get loud, the power is not adequate enough to make the 800's come to potential. With my HE1000's, the drivers start to distort as soon as I get to the point of making it loud enough @2:00 (but not extremely loud). I feared that I had a driver problem in my HEKs, so I switched over to my high powered setup (Macbook/Lampi/Wells) and had no distortion on the 1000's at volumes well above what I was driving on the Carbon. Also, I tried to connect the output of my Lampi DAC single ended into the Carbon, and the distortion was extreme into my 1000's at any volume above 9:00.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Without knowing more, this sounds like a possible problem with the amp though it could also be something else. Please email me at alex@cavalliaudio.com


----------



## sheldaze

bearfnf said:


> From the LC manual:"Note that the SE output, which comes from half of each channel, only delivers *¼ the power *of the balanced output."


 
 Thanks, and corrected my post.
 My question and confusion stems from, if he has 4-pin XLR for the Sennheiser, and I know the HiFiMan comes with 4-pin XLR, why not use 4-pin XLR


----------



## doctorjazz

True, the HEK should have adopted with balanced cable.


----------



## jamato8

All of my headphones are balanced so I will be curious to hear the difference. I use the Whiplash Y to the main cable so changing and using the same cable for each one is fast and keeps things more consistent. Also I have the balanced to single ended adapter so again, that is quick and easy. The LC seems like a nice packable amp for trips etc.


----------



## immtbiker

sheldaze said:


> Thanks, and corrected my post.
> My question and confusion stems from, if he has 4-pin XLR for the Sennheiser, and I know the HiFiMan comes with 4-pin XLR, why not use 4-pin XLR


 

 Because I am using upgraded SE aftermarket cables that are a serious improvement over the stock, on both the 800s and 1000's.
  
 Back to the Ortho distortion issues…I broke out my trusty HE-5LEs (remember those? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and I am having the same problem. Lot's of distortion nd fuzz in the right channel, and the left channel sounds like when you turn off an amp, but are still listening to the headphones, and the capacitors are discharging. Something weird with just the orthos and the Carbon in SE mode.
  
 On a different note, I have now hooked up my Carbon with the Emotiva DC-1 as the input in my bedroom rig, and raised the output gain of the DC-1 to +4.00, and that helped a lot with the HD800 listening levels. The only thing is that my goal was to also take away my transportable amp (for week long hotel business stays) with my AK240 (for plane travel and hotel source) and it won't be adequate to power my 800s in the room. 
  
  


runeight said:


> Without knowing more, this sounds like a possible problem with the amp though it could also be something else. Please email me at alex@cavalliaudio.com


 

 OK Alex. I surely will. Thanks!


----------



## defbear

I am running an Emotiva Dac 1 into the LC using balanced cables. I run the Dac 1 at fixed volume at 00. I'm using stock hd800's with an inexpensive balanced balanced cable. In 1 X mode I can't get past 11 o'clock on the volume. Pretty loud. I've run variable from the Dac 1 and pushed it up to +6 or minus 10. Everything working fine. I've run my single ended ifI-idsd and bifrost uber no problem. Single ended should present itself as having a little less volume. Not a drastic amount. I will admit I haven't tried single ended yet with the HD-800's but will do so tonight. Since I have the same setup, I thought I would report in.


----------



## runeight

In addition we had HE1000 at RMAF with the Carbon and the Portable. There was no problem driving from either amp. Absolutely good sound. So, something is definitely wrong. We just don't know what.
  
 The HE1000 are fairly easy to drive too. They don't need a lot of power, but like the HD800 they might like a little more voltage swing. I would think that either output would handle them well with balanced being better.


----------



## doctorjazz

That's what I found with my HE-1000.


----------



## Za Warudo

Just picked up mine this evening from Fedex.  Is the amp supposed to come with any accessories like power cable and warranty?  Mine just had the amp and a card with link to the online manual.


----------



## musiclvr

za warudo said:


> Just picked up mine this evening from Fedex.  Is the amp supposed to come with any accessories like power cable and warranty?  Mine just had the amp and a card with link to the online manual.



The LC just comes with a congratulatory card with the online manual link.


----------



## Mr Rick

za warudo said:


> Just picked up mine this evening from Fedex.  Is the amp supposed to come with any accessories like power cable and warranty?  Mine just had the amp and a card with link to the online manual.


 
 What you got is what you get.
  
 There is a manual at http://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


----------



## Za Warudo

Right most light is white for balanced and red for SE correct?  My XLR output has only sound when the light is red.


----------



## Mr Rick

za warudo said:


> Right most light is white for balanced and red for SE correct?  My XLR output has only sound when the light is red.


 
  
 That is an input switch. All outputs are live.


----------



## defbear

Listening to the LC with both hd800 and Hd598 headphones, balanced is louder. But when plugged in single ended with either headphones, you just have to bump it up a notch to make up the volume. I forget what the rule is, but twice as much wattage does not make for twice the volume. Single ended I still can't get the LC much up past 11 o'clock or so. My Emotiva is running balanced into the LC with the DAC volume at 0.00.


----------



## LajostheHun

Well I must say I'm rather disappointed. While I'm waiting for my balanced cable for my Sony MDR Z7, I'm forced to use the SE output for now and all of my HP's exhibit moderate to severe clipping.Yes that is the signal clips not the HP distort on it's own. The Philips Fidelio X2 is the worst among them, yet it is one of the easiest to drive. It is connected to my Parasound ZDAC via xlr balanced, and SE RCA as well. No matter what combination of method or gain setting I choose the problem persists.I tried my trusty Ifi Ican amp side by side connected to the same DAC in real time and there was no clipping there even at max volume, so the problem is clearly with the LC. The unit has been plugged in for several days now, and has at least 10hrs of active listening and dozens more just for breaking in purposes. You can see the unit in my new avatar picture along with the ZDAC and the Ifi Ican.


----------



## doctorjazz

Contact Alex...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I listened to Ethers and my former HE560 out of the SE outs at one of the Nashville Meets. No clipping, sounded fantastic, I purchased one.


----------



## sheldaze

Definitely sounds like a 1-or-2 defect minor issue - I had no issues with the demo, listening to both 1/4" phono and 4-pin XLR, while it was at home.
  
 I'll be through my 50 hours of burn-in tonight, and will be trying the 1/4" phono on my same HD650. I too have a nice upgraded single-ended "Smurf" cable for the HD650, so am looking forward to this!


----------



## runeight

lajosthehun said:


> Well I must say I'm rather disappointed. While I'm waiting for my balanced cable for my Sony MDR Z7, I'm forced to use the SE output for now and all of my HP's exhibit moderate to severe clipping.Yes that is the signal clips not the HP distort on it's own. The Philips Fidelio X2 is the worst among them, yet it is one of the easiest to drive. It is connected to my Parasound ZDAC via xlr balanced, and SE RCA as well. No matter what combination of method or gain setting I choose the problem persists.I tried my trusty Ifi Ican amp side by side connected to the same DAC in real time and there was no clipping there even at max volume, so the problem is clearly with the LC. The unit has been plugged in for several days now, and has at least 10hrs of active listening and dozens more just for breaking in purposes. You can see the unit in my new avatar picture along with the ZDAC and the Ifi Ican.


 
  
 Yes, please contact me. This sounds like a problem. Unfortunately, no amount of break in will fix it. We will take care of it.


----------



## nanoevil

48hrs burn in SQ test and listening session on my LC serial 102

Setup 1 to 3 - using 1/4 plug
Setup 4 - using 4pin balance xlr

Test track 
Alison Krauss - I Will (DSD)

Headphone : Audeze LCD 2.2 non Fazor

Cables used :
- Norne Solv X Audeze to MrSpeakers adapter
- VanDelHul D300 coax cable
- custom Mr Speakers Alphadog cables ( Canare )
- generic RCA
- generic power cable

Setup 1 : Ibasso DX90 (2.1.8 Lurker fw) connected to Liquid Carbon via 3.5mm copper interconnect. 

Highs : definitely lacks resolution and extension ( this is based on me used to using dx90 + Hugo)
Mids / vocals : its ok. Has a little relaxed and has good body
Lows : Good weight

Setup 2 : Ibasso DX90 + Hugo via VanDelHul D300 coax. 

Highs : More detail and extensions present
Mids / vocals : smoother mids, very good defined , very good attack and weight 
Lows : Good extension, control and attack. Good weight 

Setup 3 : Ibasso DX90 connected to Chord Hugo via VanDelHul D300 coax. Hugo connected to the Liquid Carbon via generic RCA.

Highs : retains the details of setup 2 but the extension is smoother...for this track setup 2 had a more sharper feel to it in the cymbals, this setup smoothens everything and makes it more pleasant to listen to...a more relaxed feeling
Mids / vocals : guitar plucks had more definition and weight compared to setup 2, vocals are better as well...really smooth and relaxed, drums have more definition and weight 
Lows : almost the same as setup 2 slight increase in the weight

Setup 4 : same as set 3 except I used the balance xlr connection

I would say SQ wise is definitely the same as setup 3 with better imaging and focus for the instruments. Soundstage i think increased to a small degree


----------



## upsguys88

So is using the LC amp with the dac section of the Pulse infinity a good combo? Already own the Pulse infinity and thinking about adding a LC.


----------



## mscott58

upsguys88 said:


> So is using the LC amp with the dac section of the Pulse infinity a good combo? Already own the Pulse infinity and thinking about adding a LC.


 
 I'm still in burn-in mode with my LC but have it connected by XLR cables to my Pulse Infinity. Like it very much so far with my LCD-3's. Will post more thoughts later in comparing it with the HP output of the Pulse by itself. Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

That would be of interest, what do you gain when you use the LC instead of the Pulse amp (if anything)?


----------



## ejong7

doctorjazz said:


> That would be of interest, what do you gain when you use the LC instead of the Pulse amp (if anything)?


 

 More dynamic, punchy and engaging for me. It is also clearer and sounds more detailed.


----------



## doctorjazz

Interesting, thanks.


----------



## santacore

I was playing around a bit with the gain switch and my TH900's. In the lower gain mode I seem to get a bit more air or slightly distant perspective. In the higher gain mode you move a few rows up and get a bit more punch to the drums/bass. I like the perspective of the lower gain mode, but the drive of the high. For now, I'm leaving it in the higher mode.


----------



## doctorjazz

So, I went back to the LC manual, it recommends burning in 150 hours WITHOUT HEADPHONES ATTACHED! That is different from the impressions I had gotten on the LC threads, including, I thing, from Alex. My impression was that burning in with balanced headphones would be best, followed by no headphone if that couldn't be managed, followed by doing it single ended, which would be the least desirable way to do the burn in. Did I get this wrong? I've been doing the balanced burn in for about 48 hours now with my HE-1000 connected to the LC (iPod Nano as the source on shuffle). Have about 5 more days to reach this 150 hour point, but thinking maybe I should disconnect the headphones.


----------



## bearFNF

doctorjazz said:


> So, I went back to the LC manual, it recommends burning in 150 hours WITHOUT HEADPHONES ATTACHED! That is different from the impressions I had gotten on the LC threads, including, I thing, from Alex. My impression was that burning in with balanced headphones would be best, followed by no headphone if that couldn't be managed, followed by doing it single ended, which would be the least desirable way to do the burn in. Did I get this wrong? I've been doing the balanced burn in for about 48 hours now with my HE-1000 connected to the LC (iPod Nano as the source on shuffle). Have about 5 more days to reach this 150 hour point, but thinking maybe I should disconnect the headphones.


 

 I think you have it right burn-in with headphones connected would be the best IMO, however, it is _RECOMMENDED_ that you disconnect the headphones *when not listening*. Probably in case something happens?? Just guessing there.


----------



## Emerpus

doctorjazz said:


> So, I went back to the LC manual, it recommends burning in 150 hours WITHOUT HEADPHONES ATTACHED! That is different from the impressions I had gotten on the LC threads, including, I thing, from Alex. My impression was that burning in with balanced headphones would be best, followed by no headphone if that couldn't be managed, followed by doing it single ended, which would be the least desirable way to do the burn in. Did I get this wrong? I've been doing the balanced burn in for about 48 hours now with my HE-1000 connected to the LC (iPod Nano as the source on shuffle). Have about 5 more days to reach this 150 hour point, but thinking maybe I should disconnect the headphones.


 
  
 I've already done 138Hrs with balanced HP plugged in. So far so good.


----------



## doctorjazz

Maybe, @bearFNF, but like what? A surge of volume or power? Wouldn't that be as likely to happen while you are listening (and be bad for your ears and headphones)? Wouldn't that be faulty design of some sort? Didn't I read you need the amp to have a load for the break in to do its thing? Inquiring minds...


----------



## immtbiker

Alex and Co. contacted me immediately and 2 hours later I received a shipping notice that I will receive a package on Wednesday (2-day shipping) and a return label.
  
 How's that for great customer service? I will report back on the day of Thanks.


----------



## DatGuy

so after burning these in for 7 days (Tuesday to Tuesday) I finally hooked them up for proper listening.
  
 Running Mojo > LC > LCD-2F right now. Oh boy, 7 months of waiting did not prepare me for this. First impressions? Incredible detail and texture top to bottom, excellent dynamics. Top end is slightly sweetened, still plenty of detail but no fatigue. Pretty much in sync with what other people have been claiming. 
  
 My only issue is that I do have an audible hum with my Roxannes, even without a source plugged in / 1x gain / lowest volume. Roxannes are 119dB/mW 15ohms. So they are right up there with the most sensitive iems. It's not a huge issue cause I mostly listen to my Roxanne's straight out of the mojo/phone but for science i gave them a go. Any music drowns the hum out.


----------



## rcoleman1

datguy said:


> so after burning these in for 7 days (Tuesday to Tuesday) I finally hooked them up for proper listening.
> 
> Running Mojo > LC > LCD-2F right now. Oh boy, 7 months of waiting did not prepare me for this. First impressions? Incredible detail and texture top to bottom, excellent dynamics. Top end is slightly sweetened, still plenty of detail but no fatigue. Pretty much in sync with what other people have been claiming.
> 
> My only issue is that I do have an audible hum with my Roxannes, even without a source plugged in / 1x gain / lowest volume. Roxannes are 119dB/mW 15ohms. So they are right up there with the most sensitive iems. It's not a huge issue cause I mostly listen to my Roxanne's straight out of the mojo/phone but for science i gave them a go. Any music drowns the hum out.


 

 Wow. I'm glad to hear that the Mojo goes well with the LC. I'm awaiting my LC delivery now but I've been considering the Mojo as well as the ALO CDM Amp/DAC. I am an Audeze LCD-X and iPhone 6 owner.


----------



## runeight

datguy said:


> so after burning these in for 7 days (Tuesday to Tuesday) I finally hooked them up for proper listening.
> 
> Running Mojo > LC > LCD-2F right now. Oh boy, 7 months of waiting did not prepare me for this. First impressions? Incredible detail and texture top to bottom, excellent dynamics. Top end is slightly sweetened, still plenty of detail but no fatigue. Pretty much in sync with what other people have been claiming.
> 
> My only issue is that I do have an audible hum with my Roxannes, even without a source plugged in / 1x gain / lowest volume. Roxannes are 119dB/mW 15ohms. So they are right up there with the most sensitive iems. It's not a huge issue cause I mostly listen to my Roxanne's straight out of the mojo/phone but for science i gave them a go. Any music drowns the hum out.




You running Roxanne's single-ended or balanced?


----------



## DatGuy

runeight said:


> You running Roxanne's single-ended or balanced?


 
 SE, using a furutech F63(G) 3.5 to 6.35 adapter


----------



## runeight

datguy said:


> SE, using a furutech F63(G) 3.5 to 6.35 adapter


 
  
 If you can, you might try balanced. IIRC the noise floor SE is about -108-110db which is why you can hear it. The noise floor balanced should be -120db possibly lower.
  
 So you might find quiet in balanced mode.


----------



## DatGuy

runeight said:


> If you can, you might try balanced. IIRC the noise floor SE is about -108-110db which is why you can hear it. The noise floor balanced should be -120db possibly lower.
> 
> So you might find quiet in balanced mode.


 
 Ah, thanks for the quick reply!
  
 I'll have to find a set of balanced cables to try them out. Since i didnt get any of the AK collaboration variants I only got an SE cable with my customs. JH and their connectors/bass attenuators = aftermarket cable maker headaches everywhere
  
 Regardless, the amp is stunning. Incredible feat of engineering


----------



## sling5s

pippen99 said:


> I can only speak to the Gustard H10.  The prototype I had was way beyond the H10 and the production model LC if it keeps improving during burn-in will outpace the prototype.  The LC has a much more dynamic presentation with a clear edge in details.  The bass is much more well defined.  Even after swapping opamps the LC is much better.  I am going to wait until burn-in is complete and make sure everything is good and then the Gustard X12/H10 stack will go on the For Sale forum.  Definitely an upgrade!!


 

 I forgot to ask. Was this in LC SE (single ended) or balanced compared to H10?  And how does the soundstage compare?


----------



## mikemercer

bearfnf said:


> I think you have it right burn-in with headphones connected would be the best IMO, however, it is _RECOMMENDED_ that you disconnect the headphones *when not listening*. Probably in case something happens?? Just guessing there.


 
 OK
@bearFNF - waddup brotha
  
 I only offered initial impressions before as I was listening to somebody else's LC earlier this week.
  
 Mine just arrived - so further early impressions coming *tonight.*
  
 For burn-in I always just hook up a pair of my trusty Senn HD25-I IIs or my old Grado SR-80s or 60s - and just run it at a decent listening level - just like burning in a stereo component: Same concept. Many of us in in-room hi-fi know that it's ALWAYS better, as bearFNF pointed out, to have speaker taps connected to an amplifier when the power is engaged - so again the same concept applies to personal audio.
  
 But, all that aside - seriously?!?!?!
  
 I haven't read back to find the hatin' going on that some fellow Head-Fiers have told me about in this thread - but at $599 - this is a NO BRAINER IMHO! And I've been in the midst of the fight of my life over the past 5 months (at 40 years of age, dealing with a divorce after 20 years together) so this wasn't an easy thing for me to commit to either.
  
 Now, I also own Dr. Cavalli's amazing LAu, which is my fave top-ranked reference (ahead of my beloved HP-4 and Studio-6) - so call me biased, but believe me if this thing didn't shine out-the-box I'd be PISSED. So I kept from reading complaints until I heard it. 
  
 Obviously my formal impressions will come during and after break-in - but, thus far:
  
 Using my:
  
  - Questyle Audio CAS192 DAC ahead of it (balanced) -
  - Amarra-for-TIDAL + Amarra Symphony as sources (via my MacBook Pro SSD) - 
  - DHC XLR interconnects between amp and DAC, and also DHC on the headphone leads
  - MrSpeakers ETHER-Cs + Audeze LCD-3s (OG version for now, non-Fazor)
  - analog rig playback comin' SOON and I'm psyched!!!! - 
  
 Rockin' Nosaj Thing's "Cold Stares Feat. Chance the Rapper" off _Fated:_
  
 The bass IS liquid (sorry) - but seriously, my LC's got that wonderful Cavalli fluidity in the low-bass & lower mid-range that I've come to expect. The sound has that ripple-like effect while being coherent and silky. I love the textural quality of Cavalli's solid-state electronics (it's why I saved for a long freakin' time to buy the LAu) and the LC's got it in spades thus far! The kick-drum pounds, but there's little to no-overhang. Things trail-off elegantly, and the continuity between the low-end, lower-mid-range, and mids is also well-articulated. The vocals are vividly rendered/lifelike - and I know this record well, as I reviewed it this year and it's heavy in my rotation. The highs are extended and airy: I don't detect (thus far - and its early in my listening of course) a hint of any "brittle-ness" or fatigue up there.
  
D'Angelo And The Vanguard's "Prayer" off _Black Messiah_:
  
 The transient attack of the bass guitar is swift and sharp - the slap and the tonality are both reproduced with intensity and clarity. D'Angelo's vocals have that velvety-like flavor that got me hooked from _Voodoo_ to this record. The sound is authoritative without being overly aggressive - just the way I want it. The sway of the track, the drivy melody is infectious and funky. I think the LC performs far beyond it's price point straight outta the box!!
  
 I'm pumped to report further. And as I always do: I'm reminding the fellas that we're ALL listening to music at the end of the day, and we're having emotional reactions to the art-form whether or not the objectivists want to admit it. It doesn't matter that electronics are reproducing the music - for me, it's still gotta hit me in the gut, in my heart, and please my ears. I'm already willing to recommend the LC to anybody that wants what I consider to be a piece of the Cavalli sound and I just starting listening critically to the thing - and when I say the Cavalli sound, that means, to me, amps that serve the music! I prefer an amplifier that helps me shed all the analytical BS and cut straight to enjoying my tunes. Thus far - the LC's doin' it for me - and it's only get better I hope!!
  
 Further thoughts coming...
  
 pics taken when I JUST got it - had it hooked up to my iFi iMicro (in Direct-mode for DAC) via RCA first before moving it over to my CAS192 DAC in order to run it balanced..


----------



## pippen99

sling5s said:


> I forgot to ask. Was this in LC SE (single ended) or balanced compared to H10?  And how does the soundstage compare?


 
 I was using LCD-X balanced with Norne Draug V2 cable.  I used the same cable with a Draug adapter from the H10.  I have a Norne Zoetic ordered to use with my ETHER.  I seriously doubt I will ever use the SE on the LC.


----------



## sling5s

pippen99 said:


> I was using LCD-X balanced with Norne Draug V2 cable.  I used the same cable with a Draug adapter from the H10.  I have a Norne Zoetic ordered to use with my ETHER.  I seriously doubt I will ever use the SE on the LC.


 

 How's the soundstage comparisons?


----------



## sling5s

pippen99 said:


> I was using LCD-X balanced with Norne Draug V2 cable.  I used the same cable with a Draug adapter from the H10.  I have a Norne Zoetic ordered to use with my ETHER.  I seriously doubt I will ever use the SE on the LC.


 

 I guess it's unfair to compare balanced vs SE.


----------



## defbear

Hatin' Hatin' (pretend it's Gollum) There's no Hatin' goin' on in this thread that I remember. Complainin' no complanin' here except anxious LC owners awatin' their amps. I'm breakin' in my amp listenin' to Eric Johnson's Ah Via Musicom. I'm lovin'. I'm countin' 11 quotes. Next time i'll add a quote and make it three gallons.


----------



## Youth

mikemercer said:


>


 
  
 What is that thing you have on top of the Liquid Carbon?


----------



## doctorjazz

The audiophile spittoon, of course!


----------



## digitalzed

Question for the group on volume matching with the LC and your DAC that also has an amp. Especially anyone using a Pulse Infinity although I'd appreciate feedback from anyone. I've been letting my LC burn in as recommended in the manual. I've listened to it twice, once when I got it, and once about halfway through. I usually listen to my Infinity at somewhere between -25-30db depending on the music, using either my Ether's or LCD-X's. I used a balanced cable for both headphones. When I listened through the LC those two previous times, the LC volume knob was about 1/4-1/2 way up with the Infinity volume at -25-30db. The burn in process was completed yesterday and I went to listen and the volume for the LC was way underpowered. Nothing in my set up had changed. Now I can't achieve a decent listening level even with the LC volume turned all the way up and the Infinity at -25-30db. Of course if I adjust the Infinity's volume I get more oomph out of the LC, but it's not right and still sounds underpowered compared to the Infinity.
  
 All my cable connections are correct. I've tried balanced from the Infinity to the LC and SE also. I even tried the LC on my standard vanilla Pulse and it's the same issue. I tried different power cords too. I did e-mail Alex and he responded right away but because he's traveling he can't really look into this right now, which I completely understand with the holiday here in the states and all. But I thought I'd throw it out here to see if anyone had a suggestion? Thanks in advance.


----------



## BRCMRGN

Still burning mine in.  Decided to give the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 a break, so I cabled up a Pono player (balanced) and Oppo PM-3 (also balanced).  This is by far the best sound that I've heard from the PM-3.  I think that Oppo does the PM-3 a disservice by marketing it at phones and portable players. It sounded thin out of an AK240 (even in balanced mode) and in single-ended mode from the Pono. Balanced from the Pono, the PM-3 came alive. It really needs the power to get good bass and dynamics.  The LC takes it to another level.  Now it really sounds like a very good planar headphone.


----------



## mscott58

digitalzed said:


> Question for the group on volume matching with the LC and your DAC that also has an amp. Especially anyone using a Pulse Infinity although I'd appreciate feedback from anyone. I've been letting my LC burn in as recommended in the manual. I've listened to it twice, once when I got it, and once about halfway through. I usually listen to my Infinity at somewhere between -25-30db depending on the music, using either my Ether's or LCD-X's. I used a balanced cable for both headphones. When I listened through the LC those two previous times, the LC volume knob was about 1/4-1/2 way up with the Infinity volume at -25-30db. The burn in process was completed yesterday and I went to listen and the volume for the LC was way underpowered. Nothing in my set up had changed. Now I can't achieve a decent listening level even with the LC volume turned all the way up and the Infinity at -25-30db. Of course if I adjust the Infinity's volume I get more oomph out of the LC, but it's not right and still sounds underpowered compared to the Infinity.
> 
> All my cable connections are correct. I've tried balanced from the Infinity to the LC and SE also. I even tried the LC on my standard vanilla Pulse and it's the same issue. I tried different power cords too. I did e-mail Alex and he responded right away but because he's traveling he can't really look into this right now, which I completely understand with the holiday here in the states and all. But I thought I'd throw it out here to see if anyone had a suggestion? Thanks in advance.


 
 I run my Infinity at full power (-0.0dB) when it is feeding my LC which is then driving my LCD-3F's. With the Infinity at 0.0 and the LC gain set to 3x (red middle light) I find myself listening to my Audeze's at a volume position of between 10 and 12 o'clock, so it has more than enough oomph for the bigger cans. Can't think of any reason to try to keep your Pulse at any level other than full-power (which you could think of as a kind of "line out" setting) as it then gives the LC the most range to play with. No idea what might have caused the apparent change in volume during your burn-in, but this is how I've always run my LC. Cheers


----------



## digitalzed

Thanks for the reply. I've tried the Infinity at 0.0 and even at 3 o'clock the sound is anemic. At 10 or 12 it's not inaudible, but close. Just weird. And before with the Infinity at -25 and the LC at 10 o'clock thete was more than enough volume.


----------



## mscott58

digitalzed said:


> Thanks for the reply. I've tried the Infinity at 0.0 and even at 3 o'clock the sound is anemic. At 10 or 12 it's not inaudible, but close. Just weird. And before with the Infinity at -25 and the LC at 10 o'clock thete was more than enough volume.


 
 Which gain setting are you using on the LC? (middle button on the front). Also do you have the right source selected? (right button on the front)


----------



## digitalzed

mscott58 said:


> I run my Infinity at full power (-0.0dB) when it is feeding my LC which is then driving my LCD-3F's. With the Infinity at 0.0 and the LC gain set to 3x (red middle light) I find myself listening to my Audeze's at a volume position of between 10 and 12 o'clock, so it has more than enough oomph for the bigger cans. Can't think of any reason to try to keep your Pulse at any level other than full-power (which you could think of as a kind of "line out" setting) as it then gives the LC the most range to play with. No idea what might have caused the apparent change in volume during your burn-in, but this is how I've always run my LC. Cheers




All my light's are white except when I tried a SE connnection then pushed the far right button in for red as per the manual.


----------



## mscott58

digitalzed said:


> All my light's are white except when I tried a SE connnection then pushed the far right button in for red as per the manual.


 
 Middle button in gain selector. Push it in so it's red, otherwise you're running on 1x versus 3x. Oh, and be sure to turn the volume down before you do so!
  
_"The center pushbutton is the gain switch. Out is 1X and in is 3X. The LED indicator will be white for 1X and red for 3X. You can hot switch the gain while listening to music."_
  
 Cheers


----------



## digitalzed

The 1x or 3x doesn't make much difference at all. Seriously.


----------



## mscott58

digitalzed said:


> The 1x or 3x doesn't make much difference at all. Seriously.


 
 So with the Infinity at 0.0 and the LC gain on the 3x/red what level of volume is good for your Audezes?


----------



## digitalzed

mscott58 said:


> Middle button in gain selector. Push it in so it's red, otherwise you're running on 1x versus 3x. Oh, and be sure to turn the volume down before you do so!
> 
> _"The center pushbutton is the gain switch. Out is 1X and in is 3X. The LED indicator will be white for 1X and red for 3X. You can hot switch the gain while listening to music."_
> 
> Cheers


 

 I've done that, but shouldn't have to for the Ether or LCD-X. They aren't that hard to drive. And going 3x makes a difference but not the one you'd think. Still the sound is distant with no energy and no bottom end. Especially compared tot he amp in the Infinity, which the LC should be superior to.


----------



## digitalzed

mscott58 said:


> So with the Infinity at 0.0 and the LC gain on the 3x/red what level of volume is good for your Audezes?


 

 Almost full volume on the LC. I think something is wrong with the amp.


----------



## mscott58

digitalzed said:


> Almost full volume on the LC. I think something is wrong with the amp.


 
 Yep, sounds weird. Are you connecting the Infinity to the LC with RCA or XLR cables?
  
 Actually, why don't you PM me so we don't fill up this thread any more than we already have.


----------



## Audio Addict

digitalzed said:


> Question for the group on volume matching with the LC and your DAC that also has an amp. Especially anyone using a Pulse Infinity although I'd appreciate feedback from anyone. I've been letting my LC burn in as recommended in the manual. I've listened to it twice, once when I got it, and once about halfway through. I usually listen to my Infinity at somewhere between -25-30db depending on the music, using either my Ether's or LCD-X's. I used a balanced cable for both headphones. When I listened through the LC those two previous times, the LC volume knob was about 1/4-1/2 way up with the Infinity volume at -25-30db. The burn in process was completed yesterday and I went to listen and the volume for the LC was way underpowered. Nothing in my set up had changed. Now I can't achieve a decent listening level even with the LC volume turned all the way up and the Infinity at -25-30db. Of course if I adjust the Infinity's volume I get more oomph out of the LC, but it's not right and still sounds underpowered compared to the Infinity.
> 
> All my cable connections are correct. I've tried balanced from the Infinity to the LC and SE also. I even tried the LC on my standard vanilla Pulse and it's the same issue. I tried different power cords too. I did e-mail Alex and he responded right away but because he's traveling he can't really look into this right now, which I completely understand with the holiday here in the states and all. But I thought I'd throw it out here to see if anyone had a suggestion? Thanks in advance.




That is the same experience I have. The Infinity needs to be closer to 0.0 dB to correctly match with the LC. I use -15.0 dB with the LC at 2:30 to drive my HE500 using the balanced out. The LC is also connected balanced to the Infinity.


----------



## digitalzed

mscott58 said:


> Middle button in gain selector. Push it in so it's red, otherwise you're running on 1x versus 3x. Oh, and be sure to turn the volume down before you do so!
> 
> _"The center pushbutton is the gain switch. Out is 1X and in is 3X. The LED indicator will be white for 1X and red for 3X. You can hot switch the gain while listening to music."_
> 
> Cheers




Thanks, but doing that Istill need to put the LC volume almost at max to achieve sound, and then it's still really thin sounding compared to the Infinity.


----------



## digitalzed

Sorry ifI 'm Quoting the wrong reply sometimes. It's hard to tell on my phone!


----------



## digitalzed

audio addict said:


> That is the same experience I have. The Infinity needs to be closer to 0.0 dB to correctly match with the LC. I use -15.0 dB with the LC at 2:30 to drive my HE500 using the balanced out. The LC is also connected balanced to the Infinity.


 

 Thanks Audio Addict. The HE500 takes a lot of power to drive, yes?


----------



## Audio Addict

digitalzed said:


> Thanks Audio Addict. The HE500 takes a lot of power to drive, yes?


 
  
 Not as much as the HE6 
  
 I am definitely not having the issue you are.  
  
 With close to 100 hours now, it is very resolving with good separation with the ability to hear the front, left and right but not getting as much depth as I would expect.  I have tried it balance using HD600 HE500 and HE560.  I even tried using balanced HE6 with the 3X gain and the Infinity at - 5.0 dB but none seemed to be the perfect match for the LC.  Of course this is only my opinion as others are having great experiences.  The balanced cables were the Red WyWires Series.


----------



## digitalzed

audio addict said:


> Not as much as the HE6
> 
> I am definitely not having the issue you are.
> 
> With close to 100 hours now, it is very resolving with good separation with the ability to hear the front, left and right but not getting as much depth as I would expect.  I have tried it balance using HD600 HE500 and HE560.  I even tried using balanced HE6 with the 3X gain and the Infinity at - 5.0 dB but none seemed to be the perfect match for the LC.  Of course this is only my opinion as others are having great experiences.  The balanced cables were the Red WyWires Series.


 

 From what I hear that is true. Not much needs the power the HE6 does.
  
 I hooked the LC back up to the Infinity about an hour ago after having tried it on my Vanilla Pulse this morning and getting the same result I reported on earlier. Absolutely nothing in set up has changed but some of the power that I originally experienced with the LC seems to be back. I have no idea what happened and no doubt some may think it's just me but for the life of me I can't figure out what may have happened to have the amp go soft, then come back again. Going to continue to keep it running and see.


----------



## Audio Addict

digitalzed said:


> From what I hear that is true. Not much needs the power the HE6 does.
> 
> I hooked the LC back up to the Infinity about an hour ago after having tried it on my Vanilla Pulse this morning and getting the same result I reported on earlier. Absolutely nothing in set up has changed but some of the power that I originally experienced with the LC seems to be back. I have no idea what happened and no doubt some may think it's just me but for the life of me I can't figure out what may have happened to have the amp go soft, then come back again. Going to continue to keep it running and see.


 
  
 Since you have an Infinity, I presume you also have the 2G USB cable.  Any chance the connection with the laptop changed.  My 2G always seems to be on the loose side and occasionally get drop outs.  Just a thougt.


----------



## digitalzed

audio addict said:


> Since you have an Infinity, I presume you also have the 2G USB cable.  Any chance the connection with the laptop changed.  My 2G always seems to be on the loose side and occasionally get drop outs.  Just a thougt.


 

 I do and I thought that also. But the connection is rock solid. And the sound from the Infinity  never wavered, only the LC.


----------



## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> Not as much as the HE6
> 
> I am definitely not having the issue you are.
> 
> With close to 100 hours now, it is very resolving with good separation with the ability to hear the front, left and right but not getting as much depth as I would expect.  I have tried it balance using HD600 HE500 and HE560.  I even tried using balanced HE6 with the 3X gain and the Infinity at - 5.0 dB but none seemed to be the perfect match for the LC.  Of course this is only my opinion as others are having great experiences.  The balanced cables were the Red WyWires Series.


 
  
 Decided to try the Grado HP2 with a balanced WyWires.  At first at the -15. dB setting for the Pulse, it seemed similar.  While I can't say I prefer this I decided to push the Infinity to -5.0 dB and it was like night and day.  The LC appears to be extremely sensitive to the input.  My other amps I have tried have always preferred a lower setting on the output as the felt overdriven but the LC this seems like a requirement.  Now I just need to be sure it isn't only the HP2.


----------



## aamefford

I'm pretty sure you want input from your dac to the LC to be ~2 vRMS for SE, and 4 vRMS for balanced.


----------



## cskippy

audio addict said:


> Decided to try the Grado HP2 with a balanced WyWires.  At first at the -15. dB setting for the Pulse, it seemed similar.  While I can't say I prefer this I decided to push the Infinity to -5.0 dB and it was like night and day.  The LC appears to be extremely sensitive to the input.  My other amps I have tried have always preferred a lower setting on the output as the felt overdriven but the LC this seems like a requirement.  Now I just need to be sure it isn't only the HP2.


 
 In the Geek Pulse Manual it states:
  
Volume adjustments affect the signals for the headphone output and line outs. When using an external preamp or active speakers, the volume may seem incorrect. A volume of -0.0dB is recommended in this instance.
  
This would also apply to external amps.  So try -0.0 dB and see what that gets you.


----------



## Audio Addict

cskippy said:


> In the Geek Pulse Manual it states:
> 
> Volume adjustments affect the signals for the headphone output and line outs. When using an external preamp or active speakers, the volume may seem incorrect. A volume of -0.0dB is recommended in this instance.
> 
> This would also apply to external amps.  So try -0.0 dB and see what that gets you.


 
  
 I actually now have the HE6 playing and with the 3X gain and about 11:30 volume setting on the LC, I am actually enjoying the presentation.  Seems to be having enough current and volume to drive the HE6.  Have they sounded better yes, but they are still enjoyable now with the LC.  This tells me it should be the same for other headphones.  
  
 On my PS Audio MKII, the sound signature doesn't really change when I use its digital volume control so I didn't think it should on the Infinity.  I will admit it was definitely an user error


----------



## digitalzed

aamefford said:


> I'm pretty sure you want input from your dac to the LC to be ~2 vRMS for SE, and 4 vRMS for balanced.


 

 I freely admit my ignorance here but I'm not sure what that means in this case. II have the basic understanding that it has to do with the sine wave and DC voltage, but that's about it. Since the Infinity runs on a 9v supply, would that mean 9v x 4vRMS for balanced for the db output? I  apologize if I'm completely misunderstanding here.


----------



## digitalzed

cskippy said:


> In the Geek Pulse Manual it states:
> 
> Volume adjustments affect the signals for the headphone output and line outs. When using an external preamp or active speakers, the volume may seem incorrect. A volume of -0.0dB is recommended in this instance.
> 
> This would also apply to external amps.  So try -0.0 dB and see what that gets you.


 

 Thanks!


----------



## digitalzed

audio addict said:


> I actually now have the HE6 playing and with the 3X gain and about 11:30 volume setting on the LC, I am actually enjoying the presentation.  Seems to be having enough current and volume to drive the HE6.  Have they sounded better yes, but they are still enjoyable now with the LC.  This tells me it should be the same for other headphones.
> 
> On my PS Audio MKII, the sound signature doesn't really change when I use its digital volume control so I didn't think it should on the Infinity.  I will admit it was definitely an user error


 

 Interesting and informative. On this and the Grado info.


----------



## singleended58

youth said:


> What is that thing you have on top of the Liquid Carbon?




I think the round thing is for (micro) vibration control if you believe in these things.


----------



## aamefford

Pretty much the 0 db thing.  I think the standard input voltage most single ended amps look for is 2 volts RMS, which is root mean square, which is a way of discussing a sign wave amplitude, and is something I only understand briefly when I look it up.  The balanced input on an amp is usually looking for about 4 volts RMS.  Usually, sometimes, 0 db corresponds to the 2 or 4 volts if you are trying to get a set output voltage from an amp with a volume pot.  As I reread this, it's pretty apparent that I have only a little more knowledge than you on this subject. Very little more...


----------



## digitalzed

aamefford said:


> Pretty much the 0 db thing.  I think the standard input voltage most single ended amps look for is 2 volts RMS, which is root mean square, which is a way of discussing a sign wave amplitude, and is something I only understand briefly when I look it up.  The balanced input on an amp is usually looking for about 4 volts RMS.  Usually, sometimes, 0 db corresponds to the 2 or 4 volts if you are trying to get a set output voltage from an amp with a volume pot.  As I reread this, it's pretty apparent that I have only a little more knowledge than you on this subject. Very little more...


 

 I appreciate you taking the time to explain in more detail.


----------



## warrenpchi

I'll be posting more detailed impressions in the days and weeks ahead... but for now... *here are some initial impressions* after 150 hours of burn-in.


----------



## Audio Addict

I at the 150 hour mark. 

With setting the Pulse Infinity at 0.0 dB and the LC in the 3X and running fully balanced in and out, the HE6 is sounding even better than 2+ days ago with the volume at roughly 10:30. The soundstage has open up with all aspects now pulling me in to the music. The bass is very controlled with a wonderful midrange and the treble just adding enough sparkle to round everything out.


----------



## cskippy

That's great to hear!  I'll be comparing the Liquid Carbon and the Project Ember with the HE-6.  The Ember is quite amazing with the right tube.


----------



## doctorjazz

Got about 100 hours on it, then had to turn the burn in station to the Airist amp, came as part of a tour, pick up the burn in after a few days. Does sound nice, waiting to do more comparisons...


----------



## sahmen

ooh yeah... I'm in, although I'm still waiting for mine to be delivered.


----------



## reddog

I have been burning in the Liquid Carbon for over 70 hours, and its starting to sound very nice. The bass has mellowed, and seems powerfull, without mudding up the mids. The mids are sweet, lush and textured. The highs are spot on, and do not fatigue my ears. The sound stage is medium sized, and pretty precise in the placing of instruments and vocals. H earing the Liquid Carbon sound this good, makes me wonder how fantastic the Liquid Gold must sound.


----------



## olor1n

reddog said:


> I have been burning in the Liquid Carbon for over 70 hours, and its starting to sound very nice. The bass has mellowed, and seems powerfull, without mudding up the mids. The mids are sweet, lush and textured. The highs are spot on, and do not fatigue my ears. The sound stage is medium sized, and pretty precise in the placing of instruments and vocals. H earing the Liquid Carbon sound this good, makes me wonder how fantastic the Liquid Gold must sound.


 

 How does the LC fare against the Mjolnir 2?


----------



## reddog

olor1n said:


> How does the LC fare against the Mjolnir 2?



I feel the MJ2 sounds a little bit better than the Liquid Carbon, however I do not like to compare a solid state amp too a tube amp. That said, I feel the MJ2 is great sounding amp, that sounds great in single end or XLR. The Liquid Carbon is a very nice amp, that sounds great as well as very portable. If were to rank my solid state amps, it would be Ragnarock > Liquid Carbon> Asgard 2> Lycan> Fiio e12.
If I were to rank my tube amps Liquid Glass> Liquid Crimson> MJ2> Lyr2.. The MJ2 sounds very nice and comes really close to the Liquid Crimson. But the bass is a bit better in the Liquid Crimson. However I am sure one could roll the right tubes, in the MJ2, to get bass that rivals the Liquid Crimson.


----------



## olor1n

Thanks reddog. Much obliged sir.


----------



## Stillhart

Just thought I'd pop in to mention that the production unit does have a bit more upper-treble extension (aka air) than the pre-production units.  It's a subtle difference but noticeable in an A/B.  I believe I mentioned in the review that I found the treble to be slightly rolled.  On the production unit, this is is no longer the case.  I'll be updating my review accordingly.


----------



## sling5s

reddog said:


> If I were to rank my tube amps Liquid Glass> Liquid Carbon> MJ2> Lyr2..


 
 Did you mean Liquid Crimson and not Liquid Carbon?


----------



## olor1n

sling5s said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > If I were to rank my tube amps Liquid Glass> Liquid Carbon> MJ2> Lyr2..
> ...


 

 Clearly the Crimson, as he's talking about tube amps and references the Crimson against the Mj2.


----------



## reddog

sling5s said:


> Did you mean Liquid Crimson and not Liquid Carbon?



Yes I wanted to say Liquid Crimson.


----------



## defbear

So Burn-In. The instructions say 150 continuous hours. Couldn't be plainer than that. So what I've been doing instead is booting up the Apple or a tablet with the LC and listening to music. If it's time for dinner or something else I unplug the headphones and leave the music on and then later come back, plug back in, listen and so forth. At the end of the evening, I turn everything off. 
The question is: Do you think burning in this piecemeal way is any different than burning in 150 hours straight? Yes I could plugin the Apple and make the Liquid Carbon listen to Lady Gaga for 6 days and 6 hours (could you imagine) but it just seems like too much to me. 
Whadda youz all think?


----------



## runeight

defbear said:


> So Burn-In. The instructions say 150 continuous hours. Couldn't be plainer than that. So what I've been doing instead is booting up the Apple or a tablet with the LC and listening to music. If it's time for dinner or something else I unplug the headphones and leave the music on and then later come back, plug back in, listen and so forth. At the end of the evening, I turn everything off.
> The question is: Do you think burning in this piecemeal way is any different than burning in 150 hours straight? Yes I could plugin the Apple and make the Liquid Carbon listen to Lady Gaga for 6 days and 6 hours (could you imagine) but it just seems like too much to me.
> Whadda youz all think?




It's better.


----------



## defbear

runeight said:


> It's better.


Is continuous better as it's much faster, or better as in long term you will have better sounding amp?


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> I feel the MJ2 sounds a little bit better than the Liquid Carbon, however I do not like to compare a solid state amp too a tube amp. That said, I feel the MJ2 is great sounding amp, that sounds great in single end or XLR. The Liquid Carbon is a very nice amp, that sounds great as well as very portable. If were to rank my solid state amps, it would be Ragnarock > Liquid Carbon> Asgard 2> Lycan> Fiio e12.
> If I were to rank my tube amps Liquid Glass> Liquid Crimson> MJ2> Lyr2.. The MJ2 sounds very nice and comes really close to the Liquid Crimson. But the bass is a bit better in the Liquid Crimson. However I am sure one could roll the right tubes, in the MJ2, to get bass that rivals the Liquid Crimson.


 
  
 That makes the Mjolnir 2 a really great value, doesn't it?
  
 (Not that I'll be buying any more amps in the near future, after I get my LC....)


----------



## jarnopp

defbear said:


> Is continuous better as it's much faster, or better as in long term you will have better sounding amp?




Maybe Lady Gaga is better?


----------



## defbear

jarnopp said:


> Maybe Lady Gaga is better?


Don't get me started. I unabashedly adore the woman. Paws up!


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, so I burned for 3 days, had to disconnect for logistical reasons...guess I may as well throw my LC in the trash, useless now...


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> OK, so I burned for 3 days, had to disconnect for logistical reasons...guess I may as well throw my LC in the trash, useless now...


 

 Hey, at least you didn't turn off an Yggy... that's a much more costly mistake.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sheesh, you're right...could've been my old Krell, would'a been tragic, especially after all these years!


----------



## grizzlybeast

first time I have subscribed to three threads for the same product.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 cant wait to get mine!


----------



## Cardiiiii

grizzlybeast said:


> first time I have subscribed to three threads for the same product.:mad:
> cant wait to get mine!




This is the fourth thread for me.


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> OK, so I burned for 3 days, had to disconnect for logistical reasons...guess I may as well throw my LC in the trash, useless now...


You would think. Seems I may have ruined (ok that's too strong)ruined every amp I own. :tongue_smile:


----------



## zachawry

defbear said:


> You would think. Seems I may have ruined (ok that's too strong)ruined every amp I own.


 

 I would still like to hear Dr. Cavalli's opinion on whether or not it provides some benefit to burn in the amp all in one go.


----------



## x RELIC x

zachawry said:


> I would still like to hear Dr. Cavalli's opinion on whether or not it provides some benefit to burn in the amp all in one go.




http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/240#post_12115974


----------



## warrenpchi

Lol


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/240#post_12115974


Yup, I'm putting together my Six Day Playlist! Glad the headphones do not need to be plugged in.


----------



## x RELIC x

I'm preparing my ninja temptation to listen resistance skills.


----------



## defbear

Starting out with Tuck and Patti 'Love Warriors'


----------



## Mr Rick

doctorjazz said:


> OK, so I burned for 3 days, had to disconnect for logistical reasons...guess I may as well throw my LC in the trash, useless now...


 
  
 I've had mine on for 8-10 hours a day for the last two weeks. Listening to it much of the time. 
  
 Much more convenient to be a non-believer.


----------



## doctorjazz

I was kidding...


----------



## doctorjazz

(what seems obvious to me ain't always so...)


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I only have 20 or so hours on my LC, but I was wondering if anyone else is noticing recessed male vocals like I am.  I'm suspecting the DAC and not the LC, but was wondering if anyone else noticed the same thing?
  
 And yes I know, its not burned all the way.  I am seeing improvement even after this short period, so I'm assuming it will be gone at hour 150.  Or, as I already said I need to get off my duff and get a better DAC...


----------



## grizzlybeast

buttuglyjeff said:


> I only have 20 or so hours on my LC, but I was wondering if anyone else is noticing recessed male vocals like I am.  I'm suspecting the DAC and not the LC, but was wondering if anyone else noticed the same thing?
> 
> And yes I know, its not burned all the way.  I am seeing improvement even after this short period, so I'm assuming it will be gone at hour 150.  Or, as I already said I need to get off my duff and get a better DAC...



Oh no... With my gear that's the absolute last thing I need to hear. Burn in doesn't fix everything though it seems like ppl report it does.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

grizzlybeast said:


> Oh no... With my gear that's the absolute last thing I need to hear. Burn in doesn't fix everything though it seems like ppl report it does.


 
  
 Don't read too much into this.  I blame my lack of a good DAC at this point.  I just wanted to hear if anyone else was hearing the same thing....


----------



## f0oster

buttuglyjeff said:


> Don't read too much into this.  I blame my lack of a good DAC at this point.  I just wanted to hear if anyone else was hearing the same thing....


 
 What DAC are you using?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I'm using my HiFi-M8, which I enjoy as a stand alone unit.  But I have my doubts using it as a DAC as its technically double amping.  I do have my CLAS db still.  I plan on giving that a go next.  But I do understand the need I have for a desktop DAC and have been reading the thread...


----------



## digitalzed

buttuglyjeff said:


> I only have 20 or so hours on my LC, but I was wondering if anyone else is noticing recessed male vocals like I am.  I'm suspecting the DAC and not the LC, but was wondering if anyone else noticed the same thing?
> 
> And yes I know, its not burned all the way.  I am seeing improvement even after this short period, so I'm assuming it will be gone at hour 150.  Or, as I already said I need to get off my duff and get a better DAC...


 

 It was reported on earlier here. Don't worry, properly burn your amp in as the manual describes. I promise you it will open up.


----------



## CanDude

This is a sad day for me. My Liquid Carbon #00081 is broken. Now I cannot bring my LC with me this Christmas. But that’s life.





  
*WARNING*:
  
 Do not plug a TRS plug into the TRS jack when a headphone (HE-6 in my case) is connected to a balanced jack, and the power is on! I don’t know if it’s possible to plug and unplug a TRS plug when the power is on, without having a balanced HP connected at the same time, but I hope so.
  
 There should be warnings about this in the user manual! (No, I have not connected a headphone or an adapter with a 4 pin XLR which has a common ground to the 4 pin jack.)
  
 When I get my repaired LC back I will block the SE jack with some black tape so I don’t repeat this mistake. I’m used to being able to plug and unplug anything without any problems! I was to compare the SE and the balanced out using an adapter in the SE jack.
 I hope this will be repaired under warranty. Mail sent to Cavalli.


----------



## mscott58

candude said:


> This is a sad day for me. My Liquid Carbon #00081 is broken. Now I cannot bring my LC with me this Christmas. But that’s life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's really interesting! What happened to your amp when you plugged the TRS in?


----------



## Mr Rick

candude said:


> This is a sad day for me. My Liquid Carbon #00081 is broken. Now I cannot bring my LC with me this Christmas. But that’s life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Let me understand correctly. You had a set of SE and a set of balanced headphones connected at the same time??


----------



## CanDude

mscott58 said:


> That's really interesting! What happened to your amp when you plugged the TRS in?


 
 It instantly broke...
  


mr rick said:


> Let me understand correctly. You had a set of SE and a set of balanced headphones connected at the same time??


 
 Balanced headphones plugged in. Music playing.
 Then I plugged in an XLR to TRS adapter, that was not connected to anything, into the SE jack. So I just plugged in an unconnected Neutrik TRS plug.
 Amp instantly broke. Bass clipping heavily. In both channels.
 Since I hadn't tried the SE output I don't know if something was wrong with the SE output in the first place, of course.
  
 BTW Alex has already replied to my mail!


----------



## runeight

candude said:


> This is a sad day for me. My Liquid Carbon #00081 is broken. Now I cannot bring my LC with me this Christmas. But that’s life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hello gents. We are working on this with CanDude. I'm not certain what happened in this instance. Give me a little bit to try to understand it.


----------



## Cardiiiii

For those who have listened to the LC, which Audeze suits it better? 2F or X? I have the 2F and am in a position to pick up a X for pretty cheap, any input will be much appreciated.


----------



## nanoevil

cardiiiii said:


> For those who have listened to the LC, which Audeze suits it better? 2F or X? I have the 2F and am in a position to pick up a X for pretty cheap, any input will be much appreciated.




Using my LCD 2.2 nonF when i did my impressions...loving it now at 150hrs burn-in

Will try it with my friends LCDX when I get back to the Philippines


----------



## pippen99

cardiiiii said:


> For those who have listened to the LC, which Audeze suits it better? 2F or X? I have the 2F and am in a position to pick up a X for pretty cheap, any input will be much appreciated.


 
 At the time of purchase of LC I had a 2f.  Got to audition the LC with my 2f at the spring Nashville meet.  Also was able to listen to the X with the LC.  Immediately sold the 2f and bought an X.  I think the X is vastly superior to the 2f.  Upgrading to the X was the best money I have spent since getting into this hobby.


----------



## Cardiiiii

pippen99 said:


> At the time of purchase of LC I had a 2f.  Got to audition the LC with my 2f at the spring Nashville meet.  Also was able to listen to the X with the LC.  Immediately sold the 2f and bought an X.  I think the X is vastly superior to the 2f.  Upgrading to the X was the best money I have spent since getting into this hobby.




Oh dear...exactly what I didn't want to hear. Lol!


----------



## nanoevil

cardiiiii said:


> Oh dear...exactly what I didn't want to hear. Lol!




True that...having listened to the X several times it is still my favorite headphone. I love how the X vocals sound....then the alphadogs stand a close 2nd to it (based on price / performance) in my book


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> That makes the Mjolnir 2 a really great value, doesn't it?
> 
> (Not that I'll be buying any more amps in the near future, after I get my LC....)



Yes the MJ2 is of great value for the money. Furthermore its far easier to roll out tubes on the MJ2, than on the Liquid Crimson.


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> Yes the MJ2 is of great value for the money. Furthermore its far easier to roll out tubes on the MJ2, than on the Liquid Crimson.


 

 Easier in what sense? Physically easier to insert tubes? More tubes available? Easier to find a good combination? 
  
 Although god, if I got into tube rolling, the amount of money I would probably spend on tubes.....
  
 Shoulda stuck with my Apple Earbuds....


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> Easier in what sense? Physically easier to insert tubes? More tubes available? Easier to find a good combination?
> 
> Although god, if I got into tube rolling, the amount of money I would probably spend on tubes.....
> 
> Shoulda stuck with my Apple Earbuds....



Yes its physically easier to insert the tubes on the MJ2. On the Liquid Crimson, one must unscrew 4 screws and remove a lid/ hatch; and then remove, a horizontally placed tube. But once placed, the amps hybrid design, seems to create a synergistic composite sound. No fuss no muss. Moreover with amps designed like the Lyr series and the MJ2, rolling out tubes is just easier.


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> Yes its physically easier to insert the tubes on the MJ2. On the Liquid Crimson, one must unscrew 4 screws and remove a lid/ hatch; and then remove, a horizontally placed tube. But once placed, the amps hybrid design, seems to create a synergistic composite sound. No fuss no muss. Moreover with amps designed like the Lyr series and the MJ2, rolling out tubes is just easier.


 

 Clearly the only way to make final determinations is to get both! 
  
 Thanks for the input, though. Maybe next year....


----------



## dBel84

The reason behind this is because the tubes are not meant to be rolled , rather if new tubes needed to be placed, it would be easier to remove the access cover than to open the entire amp. 
  
 The crimson's sound signature is not nearly as dependent on the tube as for example, the glass ( which in turn was designed to be the tube rollers dream amp ) 
  
 I am equally to blame when it comes to rolling tubes in this design though, it is an itch that needs to be scratched , luckily the  urge eases over time. 
  
 ..dB


----------



## reddog

zachawry said:


> Clearly the only way to make final determinations is to get both!
> 
> Thanks for the input, though. Maybe next year....



Good luck on your quest. I got both amps and like a greedy gus I decided to keep both. And the MJ2 and Liquid Crimson do not compare to the magical Liquid Glass. This hobby is incredibly irrational and tends to make your wallet sob in despair.


----------



## reddog

dbel84 said:


> The reason behind this is because the tubes are not meant to be rolled , rather if new tubes needed to be placed, it would be easier to remove the access cover than to open the entire amp.
> 
> The crimson's sound signature is not nearly as dependent on the tube as for example, the glass ( which in turn was designed to be the tube rollers dream amp )
> 
> ...



+1 Well said sir. I have only rolled one tube. And no longer want roll again. And regrettably I prefer the stock Gold Lions than the tube I put in.


----------



## zachawry

reddog said:


> Good luck on your quest. I got both amps and like a greedy gus I decided to keep both. And the MJ2 and Liquid Crimson do not compare to the magical Liquid Glass. This hobby is incredibly irrational and tends to make your wallet sob in despair.


 

 There's the rub. I would love to eventually get something I would basically never need to upgrade, like a Gold or a Glass. This would take me a few years to save up for, realistically. But during that time I would keep wanting to buy things like the Carbon, or the MJ2, that would be really nice but not of the same caliber. And a single purchase like that per year over the course of a few years would keep me from getting my Gold or Glass down the line.


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> I only have 20 or so hours on my LC, but I was wondering if anyone else is noticing recessed male vocals like I am.  I'm suspecting the DAC and not the LC, but was wondering if anyone else noticed the same thing?
> 
> And yes I know, its not burned all the way.  I am seeing improvement even after this short period, so I'm assuming it will be gone at hour 150.  Or, as I already said I need to get off my duff and get a better DAC...


 
  
 I never noticed any recessed male vocals on the pre-production unit or my production unit.  Of course, I didn't listen to the production unit while it was burning in so I can't say if it's something that the burn-in fixed.  
  
 It could definitely be the DAC.  You were using it as an all-in-one before and it could have a colored amp section to complement the weaknesses of the DAC section?  One of the nice things about all-in-one units is that you can do that kind of thing to make an otherwise subpar DAC and subpar amp sound good together.
  


grizzlybeast said:


> Oh no... With my gear that's the absolute last thing I need to hear. Burn in doesn't fix everything though it seems like ppl report it does.


 
  
 This is the first time I've seen it mentioned so I wouldn't worry about it too much just yet.


----------



## mscott58

So have worked my way through the burn-in period (using balanced input and output) and have to say this amp to me can be summarized in one word - TRANSPARENT. It's like you're looking through a window to the soul of the music, and an incredibly clean window at that. Nothing is obscured, nothing is reflected - what's there is there, what's not is not. 

The Liquid Carbon allows the Geek Pulse X Infinity to really show off what Larry Ho has done with this fine DAC. Not that the Pulse Infinity has a weak amplifier section, it's just that the LC makes it shine that much more. 

Great stuff Alex and thanks for admitting so many of us to the exclusive "Club Cavalli"!


----------



## doctorjazz

Back to burn in, let it go most of this week, then listen again...


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Back to burn in, let it go most of this week, then listen again...


 
  
 You're burning it in with this song?  I wonder if burning-in with a Frozen song makes it take longer...


----------



## doctorjazz

Doesn't take any longer, just SEEMS like a thousand years...


----------



## singleended58

doctorjazz said:


> Back to burn in, let it go most of this week, then listen again...




Have you noticed any changing of sound after each burning-in session? Mine has almost 150 hours but I have noticed the soundstage is getting huge with more bass and details and separated music instruments, etc... especially the musicality's presentation is more tube-like sounding...!!!


----------



## doctorjazz

Haven't listened a ton during this period...got the Airist Audio Heron 5 on tour, 10 day listen, burn in set up in another room, also family stuff, family over for Thanksgiving, visiting, Friday, more family over Thursday (thankfully, none of the kids did any damage to any of my gear  ). Initially I felt there was a bit of forwardness to the presentation, not noting it now, top end seems smooth (have the MicroZOTL2 to compare it to, ZOTL better sounding on out of the box listen to the LC, but will wait until it has the full burn in treatment to compare again. Wouldn't be shameful for the LC not to best the twice as expensive (almost) ZOTL...in quick listening I've done to the LC, it does have good body, PRAT, nice stage. Also have the RSA HR-2, would also make an interesting comparison, both solid state, HR-2 a bit more expensive then LC ($875), in the middle price wise between ZOTL and LC. Now, have to Let It Go...


----------



## grizzlybeast

doctorjazz said:


> Haven't listened a ton during this period...got the Airist Audio Heron 5 on tour, 10 day listen, burn in set up in another room, also family stuff, family over for Thanksgiving, visiting, Friday, more family over Thursday (thankfully, none of the kids did any damage to any of my gear  ). Initially I felt there was a bit of forwardness to the presentation, not noting it now, top end seems smooth (have the MicroZOTL2 to compare it to, ZOTL better sounding on out of the box listen to the LC, but will wait until it has the full burn in treatment to compare again. Wouldn't be shameful for the LC not to best the twice as expensive (almost) ZOTL...in quick listening I've done to the LC, it does have good body, PRAT, nice stage. Also have the RSA HR-2, would also make an interesting comparison, both solid state, HR-2 a bit more expensive then LC ($875), in the middle price wise between ZOTL and LC. Now, have to Let It Go...




How did you compare them. Did you compare the SE lc to the SE zotl or balanced lc to SE Zotl. ZOTL is not balanced


----------



## doctorjazz

No, ZOTL is not balanced...since LC is really designed to be at its best balanced, I compared ZOTL single ended to LC balanced. My HE-1000 has a Norne Zoetic balanced cable, with a snap on adapter for single ended use, so it just involved popping the adapter off and on. It was the out of the box LC, so don't get too worked up about it yet. But, as I've noted before, LC is still built to a price point, which involves some compromises. No one expects it to be better, or equal to, say, the Liquid Gold. "Better" could also just reflect my preferences, what I like better. More later...


----------



## santacore

I think everyone is taking burn-in too seriously. Play tunes and enjoy your new amp. Yes, it will change, but isn't it fun to hear how it might change and improve? There's no reason to not use the amp while you are running music through it. My 2 lame cents.


----------



## sling5s

santacore said:


> I think everyone is taking burn-in too seriously. Play tunes and enjoy your new amp. Yes, it will change, but isn't it fun to hear how it might change and improve? There's no reason to not use the amp while you are running music through it. My 2 lame cents.


 

 +1 (OCD serious).


----------



## zachawry

I haven't even received mine, but this is one aspect I'm really looking forward to. I want to see if I can identify how it changes over time. As far as I'm concerned, the burn-in process is a perk to be enjoyed!


----------



## defbear

santacore said:


> I think everyone is taking burn-in too seriously.


Ya think? I'm afraid to turn mine on now.


----------



## digitalzed

mscott58 said:


> So have worked my way through the burn-in period (using balanced input and output) and have to say this amp to me can be summarized in one word - TRANSPARENT. It's like you're looking through a window to the soul of the music, and an incredibly clean window at that. Nothing is obscured, nothing is reflected - what's there is there, what's not is not.
> 
> The Liquid Carbon allows the Geek Pulse X Infinity to really show off what Larry Ho has done with this fine DAC. Not that the Pulse Infinity has a weak amplifier section, it's just that the LC makes it shine that much more.
> 
> Great stuff Alex and thanks for admitting so many of us to the exclusive "Club Cavalli"!


 

 I agree 100%. During burn in I still preferred the Ininity's amp since it has so many more hours on it. But now that I'm beyond 150 hours on the LC your assessment and mine are the same.


----------



## grizzlybeast

^cant stand the infinity amp. The LC better  have a whole different sound signature. 
  
 The* Liquid Carbon vs the Audio-gd NFB-1AMP *might be a good shoot out. Both come recommended by @Curawong


----------



## Stillhart

grizzlybeast said:


> ^cant stand the infinity amp. The LC better  have a whole different sound signature.
> 
> The* Liquid Carbon vs the Audio-gd NFB-1AMP *might be a good shoot out. Both come recommended by @Curawong


 
  
 People have been saying that the NFB-1AMP is very similar to the amp section of the NFB-28.  I compared the LC to the NFB-28 in my review, might help a bit.
  
 From memory, the NFB-28 was much brighter and the soundstage was slightly wider and significantly shallower.


----------



## s7uart

Hi, 

Anyone here lucky enough to own both an LC + a Chord Mojo? If you do have you had a chance to compare the two, I.e. Mojo > Headphones vs Mojo > LC > Headphones.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Stillhart

s7uart said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone here lucky enough to own both an LC + a Chord Mojo? If you do have you had a chance to compare the two, I.e. Mojo > Headphones vs Mojo > LC > Headphones.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I think we're just waiting on @x RELIC x to get his LC for this particular pairing...


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> I think we're just waiting on @x RELIC x
> to get his LC for this particular pairing...




Uhg. The Mojo tour was delayed quite a bit so I won't be getting it back for a while. Perhaps mid Janurary. :mad:


----------



## sheldaze

s7uart said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone here lucky enough to own both an LC + a Chord Mojo? If you do have you had a chance to compare the two, I.e. Mojo > Headphones vs Mojo > LC > Headphones.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 Have you heard the Mojo?
  
 In my opinion, it drives quite a number of headphones very well. It drives my two balanced headphones, Sennheiser HD650 and HiFiMan HE-1000, exceedingly well (actually three headphones if you include Audeze EL-8C, but that one is very easy to drive). Also the Mojo does not have a dedicated line output - that, combined with how well it drives headphones directly leads me to suggest people simply drive their headphones directly from the Mojo.
  
 Yes, I have the Mojo. Yes, I have the Liquid Carbon. However (unrelated to the Carbon) I'd rather just use the Mojo directly. I do not have any headphones that benefit more from another amplifier. There are some other people who posted similar comments in Mojo and headphone threads (believe there were some recent comments on the Audeze LCD-4). But that's just my two cents.
  
 Love the Carbon! Just don't use it with the Mojo (used Carbon once and another headphone amplifier, more to compare Mojo against my dedicated DAC - I was, meh, not too excited). Just use the Mojo if you can.


----------



## Stillhart

sheldaze said:


> Have you heard the Mojo?
> 
> In my opinion, it drives quite a number of headphones very well. It drives my two balanced headphones, Sennheiser HD650 and HiFiMan HE-1000, exceedingly well (actually three headphones if you include Audeze EL-8C, but that one is very easy to drive). Also the Mojo does not have a dedicated line output - that, combined with how well it drives headphones directly leads me to suggest people simply drive their headphones directly from the Mojo.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm curious if you'd try it just for grins and giggles.  I find it hard to imagine that the extra power from the balanced LC will not make the HD650 sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than just using the Mojo alone.  The amp section on the Hugo is nothing to write home about and I think the Mojo uses the same setup.


----------



## d1sturb3d

@Stillhart
  
 I know you have a 560 right?  How far are you on the volume in balanced using the LC?  I thought I will not go past 12 in the volume knob (1x gain).  I am mostly listening at 1 or 2..same as my single ended iCAN.
  
 Still currently burning in the amp X5 (LO) -> LC (SE in)..I have not tried my DC-1 on it yet (have not made my balance cables yet hehe been busy)


----------



## Stillhart

d1sturb3d said:


> @Stillhart
> 
> I know you have a 560 right?  How far are you on the volume in balanced using the LC?  I thought I will not go past 12 in the volume knob (1x gain).  I am mostly listening at 1 or 2..same as my single ended iCAN.
> 
> Still currently burning in the amp X5 (LO) -> LC (SE in)..I have not tried my DC-1 on it yet (have not made my balance cables yet hehe been busy)


 
  
 I'm closer to 10:00 when using it balanced in unity gain.  1-2:00 is far too loud for me.


----------



## d1sturb3d

stillhart said:


> I'm closer to 10:00 when using it balanced in unity gain.  1-2:00 is far too loud for me.


 
  
 really?  I am now worried..I don't listen to loud levels that is why I am surprised that using the balanced out I get the same volume play as my SE iCAN..ok I will try SE now..and will report back in


----------



## Mr Rick

stillhart said:


> I'm closer to 10:00 when using it balanced in unity gain.  1-2:00 is far too loud for me.


 
 With a hot input I run my HD650s at about 9:00. The LC really has lots of juice in balanced mode.


----------



## d1sturb3d

9(3x gain bal) = 11(1x gain bal) = 2(1xgain SE)
  
 This is my estimate though..Maybe I was drowning the background noise when I listened to it 2 days ago..
  
 10(1x gain) is not enough on my usual listening level..
  
 any other with 560's here?


----------



## Stillhart

d1sturb3d said:


> really?  I am now worried..I don't listen to loud levels that is why I am surprised that using the balanced out I get the same volume play as my SE iCAN..ok I will try SE now..and will report back in


 
  
  


d1sturb3d said:


> 9(3x gain bal) = 11(1x gain bal) = 2(1xgain bal)
> 
> This is my estimate though..Maybe I was drowning the background noise when I listened to it 2 days ago..
> 
> ...


 
  
 We all have different listening levels.  I mostly listen at night when the whole house is asleep so I don't need it cranked.  If I try listening in the morning with everyone running around, it definitely needs to go up a few... hours.
  
 If you're listening at 11 and I'm listening at 10, I wouldn't stress it.


----------



## x RELIC x

sheldaze said:


> Have you heard the Mojo?
> 
> In my opinion, it drives quite a number of headphones very well. It drives my two balanced headphones, Sennheiser HD650 and HiFiMan HE-1000, exceedingly well (actually three headphones if you include Audeze EL-8C, but that one is very easy to drive). *Also the Mojo does not have a dedicated line output* - that, combined with how well it drives headphones directly leads me to suggest people simply drive their headphones directly from the Mojo.
> 
> ...





stillhart said:


> I'm curious if you'd try it just for grins and giggles.  I find it hard to imagine that the extra power from the balanced LC will not make the HD650 sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than just using the Mojo alone.  *The amp section on the Hugo is nothing to write home about and I think the Mojo uses the same setup.*




Just to keep the facts straight there is no 'amp section' in the Hugo/Mojo. It's the discrete analogue output of the DAC. The Mojo is essentially *full time variable line-out* and there is no traditional amp section. If you don't like the 'amp' you are directly saying you don't like the DACs analogue output. You can't separate the two. Rob Watts has posted extensively on this.

From this post:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/702787/chord-hugo/1830#post_10459450




Spoiler: Rob Watts on his Hugo 'amp'



3. The lack of DAC RF OP noise means that the analogue section can be made radically simpler as the analogue filter requirements are smaller. Now in analogue terms, making it simpler, with everything else being constant, gives more transparency. You really can hear every solder joint, every passive component, and every active stage. Now Hugo has a single active stage - a very high performance op-amp with a discrete op-stage as a hybrid with a single global feedback path. *This arrangement means that you have a single active stage, two resistors and two capacitors in the direct signal path - and that is it. Note: there is no headphone drive. Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphone amp. So to conclude - Hugo's analogue path is not a simple couple of op-amps chucked together, it is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions.*

*This brings me on to my biggest annoyance - the claim that Hugo's amp is merely good. Firstly, no body can possibly know how good the headphone amp in Hugo is, because there is not a separate headphone stage as such - its integrated into the DAC function directly. You can't remove the sound of the headphone amp from the sound of the DAC, it's one and the same.*



Sorry for the OT.


----------



## d1sturb3d

stillhart said:


> We all have different listening levels.  I mostly listen at night when the whole house is asleep so I don't need it cranked.  If I try listening in the morning with everyone running around, it definitely needs to go up a few... hours.
> 
> If you're listening at 11 and I'm listening at 10, I wouldn't stress it.


 
  
 yeah you are correct 
  
 need close backs here in the office..I might damage my hearing without me noticing it.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Just to keep the facts straight there is no 'amp section' in the Hugo/Mojo. It's the discrete analogue output of the DAC. The Mojo is essentially *full time variable line-out* and there is no traditional amp section. If you don't like the 'amp' you are directly saying you don't like the DACs analogue output. You can't separate the two. Rob Watts has posted extensively on this.
> 
> From this post:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tomato/Tomahto.  The point I'm trying to make is that the Hugo generally sounds much better when using it with an external amp.  If the Mojo has the same setup, which you seem to have confirmed, then it stands to reason that it will also benefit from an external amp.  
  


d1sturb3d said:


> yeah you are correct
> 
> need close backs here in the office..I might damage my hearing without me noticing it.


 
  
 Yup, I learned a while back that open headphones at the office are a waste.  I'm using PM-3's right now, but I may be getting an Ether C to haul back and forth.  :-D


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> Tomato/Tomahto.  The point I'm trying to make is that the Hugo generally sounds much better when using it with an external amp.  If the Mojo has the same setup, which you seem to have confirmed, then it stands to reason that it will also benefit from an external amp.
> 
> 
> Yup, I learned a while back that open headphones at the office are a waste.  I'm using PM-3's right now, but I may be getting an Ether C to haul back and forth.  :-D




Sure. Just want to clarify because if users want to add an amp they need not worry about technically double amping. I'd hate to see a great setup under sold because of misinformation.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Sure. Just want to clarify because if users want to add an amp they need not worry about technically double amping. I'd hate to see a great setup under sold because of misinformation.


 
  
 Oh I gotcha.  Yeah, good point and one worth reiterating fo sho.


----------



## mscott58

Briefly tried the Mojo through the LC, but that was before the LC had the chance to burn-in. Sounded good, but not as good as my Pulse Infinity/LPS4/Regen combo IMO. Will have to go back and try it again now that the LC's all warmed up and into it's full sweetness. 

Also the Mojo's the center of my road-warrior stack, so leave it for that use-case mainly (which it does very, very well). 

Cheers


----------



## Dave74

stillhart said:


> I'm curious if you'd try it just for grins and giggles.  I find it hard to imagine that the extra power from the balanced LC will not make the HD650 sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than just using the Mojo alone.  The amp section on the Hugo is nothing to write home about and I think the Mojo uses the same setup.


 

 I find my HE-500 and Alpha dogs significantly better using the Hugo as a DAC through my Bryston BHA-1(balanced or unbalanced) as opposed to directly out of my Hugo.   I do love my Hugo, I just personally find it is better when amped for harder to drive headphones.  Even though the volume is there I think the dynamics aren't as good as when using a more powerful amp.  I can't wait to try my Carbon out of the Hugo when it gets here...after burn in of course.  
 I just got my Mojo yesterday so I haven't tried it with these cans and never really planned to as I bought the Mojo for portable use with my IEM's.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Although you won't be technically double amping when connecting the Hugo to the LC, does the volume change on the LC when you play with the Hugo's volume wheel when in line out mode?


----------



## singleended58

s7uart said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anyone here lucky enough to own both an LC + a Chord Mojo? If you do have you had a chance to compare the two, I.e. Mojo > Headphones vs Mojo > LC > Headphones.
> 
> Thanks in advance.




I have them both but IMO you should listen to each of them separately. LC and Chord Mojo have their own SQ when pairing with your preferred DAPs and cables.


----------



## jarnopp

singleended58 said:


> I have them both but IMO you should listen to each of them separately. LC and Chord Mojo have their own SQ when pairing with your preferred DAPs and cables.




Thanks all for all the Mojo -> LC impressions. I've had my Mojo for 4 days and still trying to get thenmeasure of it, alone and with the Project Solstice, with iems, planers, and dynamics. It's pretty amazing! (Listen to RHCP "Brendan's Death Song" for an experience.). Of course, my best DACs previously were an iPhone 6 and a Schiit Modi 2U. I've read most of Rob Watts comments on Mojo and Dave, and I'm wondering if the chip in the Mojo isn't more powerful than Hugo, and thus the silence around taps and such? (Aside, I will see Rob speak at Audio Vision in SF this Thursday evening, so if you have any questions....)

I'm also waiting for an LC (and even just an email address confirmation for order #850). I would hope to have Mojo do triple duty as a portable dac/amp, a desktop dac with the LC, and a dac for my home system, Quad, Odessey, Volent speakers setup. But will need to try it all out and see how it sounds. 

I do find the Mojo drives the ZMF x Vibros fine. I'm looking to listen to some Dharmas but they are pretty efficient, and might be fine with the Mojo alone. So maybe I should get some HE-6s to pair with Mojo -> LC. 

Well, in a couple weeks, plus 100 years of burn in, I may know...

PS: from some measurements (but I may be wrong, so someone with more knowledge please correct me), it seems you can start up in line out on the Mojo and click 3 times on the vol down ball to get about 2.2V, which is a more normal line out voltage. 4 clicks should give just under 2V.


----------



## grizzlybeast

jarnopp said:


> Thanks all for all the Mojo -> LC impressions. I've had my Mojo for 4 days and still trying to get thenmeasure of it, alone and with the Project Solstice, with iems, planers, and dynamics. It's pretty amazing! (Listen to RHCP "Brendan's Death Song" for an experience.). Of course, my best DACs previously were an iPhone 6 and a Schiit Modi 2U. I've read most of Rob Watts comments on Mojo and Dave, and I'm wondering if the chip in the Mojo isn't more powerful than Hugo, and thus the silence around taps and such? (Aside, I will see Rob speak at Audio Vision in SF this Thursday evening, so if you have any questions....)
> 
> I'm also waiting for an LC (and even just an email address confirmation for order #850). I would hope to have Mojo do triple duty as a portable dac/amp, a desktop dac with the LC, and a dac for my home system, Quad, Odessey, Volent speakers setup. But will need to try it all out and see how it sounds.
> 
> ...


 
 That ain't gonna work at all my friend.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Plus looking at the Mojo it doesn't seem compatible with external amps... double amping so you can't possibly fully distinguish the internal amps effect on the LC.


----------



## jarnopp

grizzlybeast said:


> That ain't gonna work at all my friend.




Not enough? I know you feel Vibros needed lots of power, but I swear the Mojo drives them great - Respeghi Pines of Rome (Catacombs) was deafeningly wonderful!


----------



## jarnopp

grizzlybeast said:


> Plus looking at the Mojo it doesn't seem compatible with external amps... double amping so you can't possibly fully distinguish the internal amps effect on the LC.




See my PS edit above. All DACs have to have some analog out. Mojo has just integrated it into not only the line out, but the whole "amp" implementation, with no noise (yeah, drinking the Chord koolaid here, but it sounds really good)!


----------



## x RELIC x

grizzlybeast said:


> Plus looking at the Mojo it doesn't seem compatible with external amps... double amping so you can't possibly fully distinguish the internal amps effect on the LC.




Not double amping. Looks like you missed my post on the previous page.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/315#post_12124470


----------



## grizzlybeast

jarnopp said:


> Not enough? I know you feel Vibros needed lots of power, but I swear the Mojo drives them great - Respeghi Pines of Rome (Catacombs) was deafeningly wonderful!


 
 The vibro does need power but you said he-6... If you can't throw at least 800mw into the t50 driver its bass won't gel up right. I think it should get ≤1w
 There is no way you can get enough power from the LC to push that HE-6 even close to right.
 1.5w into 50ohms is great for the Vibro


jarnopp said:


> See my PS edit above. All DACs have to have some analog out. Mojo has just integrated it into not only the line out, but the whole "amp" implementation, with no noise (yeah, drinking the Chord koolaid here, but it sounds really good)!


 
  
  


x relic x said:


> Not double amping. Looks like you missed my post on the previous page.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/315#post_12124470


 
 gotcha...tired.. overtime


----------



## musiclvr

I didn't think that I would ever convince myself to feel like I needed to own a balanced headphone to more thoroughly enjoy music with; but owning the LC has made me revisit all that. I found that sending out any of my single-ended current headphones to be converted to balanced would be at least $300.00. I figured for another $200.00 I could get another headphone all together! So I ordered a pair of Alpha Dogs (w/ the DUM cable terminated in XLR 4 pin) specifically for balanced use with the LC. I haven't heard the Alpha Dogs before but most reviews say it's a neutral closed headphone that needs sufficient power to sound their best. Has anyone heard these two together? I hope they synergize well with the LC and my HiFi M8.


----------



## cskippy

musiclvr said:


> I didn't think that I would ever convince myself to feel like I needed to own a balanced headphone to more thoroughly enjoy music with; but owning the LC has made me revisit all that. I found that sending out any of my single-ended current headphones to be converted to balanced would be at least $300.00. I figured for $200.00 I could get another headphone all together! So I ordered a pair of Alpha Dogs (w/ the DUM cable terminated in XLR 4 pin) specifically for balanced use with the LC. I haven't heard the Alpha Dogs before but most reviews say it's a neutral closed headphone that needs sufficient power to sound their best. Has anyone heard these two together? I hope they synergize well with the LC and my HiFi M8.


 
 I have a balanced Alpha Dog waiting for my Liquid Carbon.  Other balanced headphones I have are HE-500 and HE-6.  I need to pick up a balanced cable for my HD650.


----------



## jarnopp

cskippy said:


> I have a balanced Alpha Dog waiting for my Liquid Carbon.  Other balanced headphones I have are HE-500 and HE-6.  I need to pick up a balanced cable for my HD650.




Do you have you LC yet? How does it drive the HE-6?


----------



## cskippy

jarnopp said:


> Do you have you LC yet? How does it drive the HE-6?


 
 Nope, still waiting.


----------



## jarnopp

x relic x said:


> Not double amping. Looks like you missed my post on the previous page.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/315#post_12124470




Question on the LC's gain settings....if I use 1x gain, does that mean the amp is not amplifying the signal at all, but just acting as a vol pot and , if connected to balanced headphones, doing the conversion from SE to balanced? I realize there are other impedance changes, etc, but if you are using only with 1x gain, would that imply you don't really need an amp for your setup? Or am I missing something? Thanks!


----------



## grizzlybeast

jarnopp said:


> Do you have you LC yet? How does it drive the HE-6?



Again bro it's not gonna work.


----------



## Stillhart

jarnopp said:


> Do you have you LC yet? How does it drive the HE-6?


 
  
@Hansotek tried it at RMAF and said it wasn't quite there, I believe.


----------



## coastal1

Thinking of getting a DAP to use just as a music player for the LC to streamline things a little vs. using laptop. Will be using the Ifi Micro as DAC initially so not concerned about the amp or DAC capabilities of the DAP. 

Would the FiiO X5 be a good choice? Any other recommendations or any reason a DAP in general as a music player would be inferior to using a laptop w/ Jriver?


----------



## Stillhart

coastal1 said:


> Thinking of getting a DAP to use just as a music player for the LC to streamline things a little vs. using laptop. Will be using the Ifi Micro as DAC initially so not concerned about the amp or DAC capabilities of the DAP.
> 
> Would the FiiO X5 be a good choice? Any other recommendations or any reason a DAP in general as a music player would be inferior to using a laptop w/ Jriver?


 
  
 The Fiio X3 also has coaxial out and it's cheaper.  The X5 works fine, though, I have one and used it to drive the DAC-19 and LC at RMAF.
  
 You might also consider getting a Raspberry Pi and using something like Volumio.  That's probably your cheapest bet for a solid transport.  Just make sure the ifi drivers are supported in linux.
  
 EDIT - Derp


----------



## doctorjazz

coastal1 said:


> Thinking of getting a DAP to use just as a music player for the LC to streamline things a little vs. using laptop. Will be using the Ifi Micro as DAC initially so not concerned about the amp or DAC capabilities of the DAP.
> 
> Would the FiiO X5 be a good choice? Any other recommendations or any reason a DAP in general as a music player would be inferior to using a laptop w/ Jriver?




Some might think a DAP would be better, there are USB issues (the REgen is supposed to work for this, I use it, other similar gear is out there as well), also "dirty" computer power, noise. And the dac in the computer is likely not the best, unless you use an external dac. And, now, you're slipping down that slippery audiophile slope...


----------



## coastal1

Thanks, will be using IFi Micro as DAC so not worried about the computer's DAC (which isn't good). 

As far as 'dirty noise,' is something that's always obvious or can it be subtle. Haven't noticed any issues using laptop->IFi Micro-> BH Crack, but haven't compared it to anything except iPhone using Tidal.



doctorjazz said:


> Some might think a DAP would be better, there are USB issues (the REgen is supposed to work for this, I use it, other similar gear is out there as well), also "dirty" computer power, noise. And the dac in the computer is likely not the best, unless you use an external dac. And, now, you're slipping down that slippery audiophile slope...


----------



## sheldaze

stillhart said:


> I'm curious if you'd try it just for grins and giggles.  I find it hard to imagine that the extra power from the balanced LC will not make the HD650 sound SIGNIFICANTLY better than just using the Mojo alone.  The amp section on the Hugo is nothing to write home about and I think the Mojo uses the same setup.


 
 Will do - only must state up front that work schedule has kept me busy. I have barely had time to login and keep up with Head-Fi. The soonest I will be back to significant listening is after next week.
  


x relic x said:


> Just to keep the facts straight there is no 'amp section' in the Hugo/Mojo. It's the discrete analogue output of the DAC. The Mojo is essentially *full time variable line-out* and there is no traditional amp section. If you don't like the 'amp' you are directly saying you don't like the DACs analogue output. You can't separate the two. Rob Watts has posted extensively on this.
> 
> Sorry for the OT.


 
 No worries - not OT as it relates to the original question of Mojo. However when I consider the line-output from the Mojo, I am also considering how it interacts with standard external amplifiers. Most line outputs have very high impedance values, to better interact with an external pre-amp or amplifier. High impedance means it sends voltage and not much current, right - I forget? But due to the low impedance value, I think I will likely still prefer its sound directly connected to my headphones versus sending it through an external amplifier.
  
 If I recall correctly, when trying this on the demo of the Carbon, the sound just did not seem as clear to me as it did directly from the Mojo. It was as-if I were listening to a lesser DAC, versus the detailed sound of the DAC I heard when connected directly to Mojo. This was with the demo, and I did not connect to my final version of the Liquid Carbon (having just completed burn-in before work schedule picked up).
  
 If you have an amplifier that is specifically matched to a low impedance input source, that would likely provide a different scenario. But I suspect most amplifiers, the Liquid Carbon included, expect their source to have a high impedance characteristic. I'll let you know in about a week and a half.


----------



## bflat

FYI, as I was asking for an update on my order, I did confirm that the website will say "Sold Out" once the last unit is gone. Still available as of 12/2. Those still on the fence should make a decision soon.


----------



## doctorjazz

I like listening on my bed, but don't think it would be very comfortable on the fence, hahahahaha


----------



## x RELIC x

coastal1 said:


> Thinking of getting a DAP to use just as a music player for the LC to streamline things a little vs. using laptop. Will be using the Ifi Micro as DAC initially so not concerned about the amp or DAC capabilities of the DAP.
> 
> Would the FiiO X5 be a good choice? Any other recommendations or any reason a DAP in general as a music player would be inferior to using a laptop w/ Jriver?





stillhart said:


> The Fiio X3 also has optical out and it's cheaper.  The X5 works fine, though, I have one and used it to drive the DAC-19 and LC at RMAF.
> 
> You might also consider getting a Raspberry Pi and using something like Volumio.  That's probably your cheapest bet for a solid transport.  Just make sure the ifi drivers are supported in linux.




FiiO DAPs are a great choice if you're ok with the interface. The X5 with its two mSD slots and seperate coaxial jack will be my preferred choice as a transport. Actually it's what I intend on using. 

All FiiO DAPs use coaxial output, not optical.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> FiiO DAPs are a great choice if you're ok with the interface. The X5 with its two mSD slots and seperate coaxial jack will be my preferred choice as a transport. Actually it's what I intend on using.
> 
> *All FiiO DAPs use coaxial output, not optical.*


 
  
 Duh, I was thinking one thing and wrote another.  Sorry, I blame my newborn.
  
 I prefer coaxial to optical given the choice because the cables are more resilient.


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> Duh, I was thinking one thing and wrote another.  Sorry, I blame my newborn.
> 
> I prefer coaxial to optical given the choice because the cables are more resilient.




Newborns are MUCH more fun and fulfilling!! Congrats btw! 

I hate being the bean counter but it helps other members who otherwise didn't know. :wink_face:


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Newborns are MUCH more fun and fulfilling!! Congrats btw!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the congrats and thanks for the corrections.  I like to think that everything I post may come up in a search sometime when someone is looking for info.  I hate to think that I may post something that's factually incorrect so I definitely appreciate the corrections.


----------



## d1sturb3d

Made some balanced cables last night just so I can burn it through the balanced input. Will cook this amp a little more.


----------



## defbear

I'm using my Pono Player for my DAP. It has both line out and woo-hoo balanced outputs. Mine holds 264gb. It's MY end game DAP. I got my MacBook to stay awake and have been burning in the LC continuously (without headphones) for two days. I think the LC sounds amazing as is. I'm a little worried about changing it's most excellent sound, but i'm gonna let it go for the full six days. I'm stupefied there are still some available. Can we please sell out this run so I won't be tempted to get a second one?


----------



## Mr Rick

defbear said:


> I'm using my Pono Player for my DAP. It has both line out and woo-hoo balanced outputs. Mine holds 264gb. It's MY end game DAP. I got my MacBook to stay awake and have been burning in the LC continuously (without headphones) for two days. I think the LC sounds amazing as is. I'm a little worried about changing it's most excellent sound, but i'm gonna let it go for the full six days. I'm stupefied there are still some available. Can we please sell out this run so I won't be tempted to get a second one?


 
 Don't do that. Once you reach 150 hours you must cryogenically cool it, to lock in the good sounding electrons. The next time you power it up you must leave it on..............forever.


----------



## doctorjazz

1+ on Pono as digital source, it's what I listen to most often, line out into amp, straight into headphones, even have a balanced cable for driving HE-1000 directly, which it does well. Currently in kazillion hour LC break in, listening a bit here and there, using iPod Touch on shuffle/repeat for music during break in. (my PC set up, Regen/Geek Out Special Edition, sounds better, but is finicky, not working at present, and, most importantly, IS NOT AT MY BEDSIDE!)


----------



## doctorjazz

stillhart said:


> x relic x said:
> 
> 
> > FiiO DAPs are a great choice if you're ok with the interface. The X5 with its two mSD slots and seperate coaxial jack will be my preferred choice as a transport. Actually it's what I intend on using.
> ...




Congrats on the newborn...I bet you have no problem placing the baby in space with great, precise imaging during nighttime crying sessions


----------



## rocketron

I'm sat hear with my new born. Three and a half days old . Feeding and listening to big single driver headphones. Eclipse T-D speakers . Can wait for my Liquid Carbon to come. 
It's 3.30 am and he's happy.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Congrats on the newborn...I bet you have no problem placing the baby in space with great, precise imaging during nighttime crying sessions


 
  
 Yes, VERY precise.  Her treble is a bit peaky though.  I might have to start calling her "Sennheiser" as a nickname.
  


rocketron said:


> I'm sat hear with my new born. Three and a half days old . Feeding and listening to big single driver headphones. Eclipse T-D speakers . Can wait for my Liquid Carbon to come.
> It's 3.30 am and he's happy.


 
  
 Congrats!


----------



## doctorjazz

Congrats to you both...been there, done that (my youngest in 17, so it's been a while, but I remember it well). Enjoy! Good Headphones will be more crucial than ever, you never want to wake a quite, sleeping darling baby!


----------



## rocketron

Thank you. I should of had him 20+ years ago , but that's life


----------



## defbear

mr rick said:


> Don't do that. Once you reach 150 hours you must cryogenically cool it, to lock in the good sounding electrons. The next time you power it up you must leave it on..............forever.:evil:


That sounds more like Yggy!


----------



## defbear

rocketron said:


> I'm sat hear with my new born. Three and a half days old . Feeding and listening to big single driver headphones. Eclipse T-D speakers . Can wait for my Liquid Carbon to come.
> It's 3.30 am and he's happy.


Congratulations. It's been a while. I can remember Godzilla, and a baby at 3:30am many times.


----------



## doctorjazz

rocketron said:


> Thank you. I should of had him 20+ years ago , but that's life




It;s all good...I'm also an older dad, was 42 when I had my 17 year old, think what I lost in energy, I make up for just in being more settled, and, ahem, mature...:rolleyes:


----------



## jarnopp

rocketron said:


> I'm sat hear with my new born. Three and a half days old . Feeding and listening to big single driver headphones. Eclipse T-D speakers . Can wait for my Liquid Carbon to come.
> It's 3.30 am and he's happy.




Only 2.5 days more for break in! Congrats!


----------



## x RELIC x

rocketron said:


> I'm sat hear with my new born. Three and a half days old . Feeding and listening to big single driver headphones. Eclipse T-D speakers . Can wait for my Liquid Carbon to come.
> It's 3.30 am and he's happy.




Congrats to you as well!


----------



## doctorjazz

jarnopp said:


> rocketron said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sat hear with my new born. Three and a half days old . Feeding and listening to big single driver headphones. Eclipse T-D speakers . Can wait for my Liquid Carbon to come.
> ...




Is that 2.5 days for the newborn to break in? (cries smooth out, less harsh...)


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> It;s all good...I'm also an older dad, was 42 when I had my 17 year old, think what I lost in energy, I make up for just in being more settled, and, ahem, mature...:rolleyes:




My youngest is 17 as well, but I'm the opposite of you, I started very young. My oldest is 21. I can't imagine what I'll purchase once they're through university! Might purchase a future run of the Cavalli Liquid Unobtanium!


----------



## rocketron

Thanks guys.


----------



## kingdixon

Well, Kudos for everyone who made an early order and waited all this time, i made my order on September and i can hardly wait !!
  
 Also, i was wondering how good will the carbon work with line out from a DAP like X5 or ZX2, as i don't have any standalone quality dac..
  
 specially ZX2 if anyone owns it, as it has low output voltage and the lineout gives very low volume, i don't know how will this work out, i would normally like to run it from my daps, but if it can't do it any justice, what dac would be good in the range of 300-400$ ?
  
 Thanks !


----------



## incognitodave

There's a thread for that. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
  
 Might not be exactly what you are looking for but an interesting read none the less.
  
 I have not personally heard the Steath DC-1 but there are one or two that are pairing it with the LC that like it. Its in the range you specified.
 http://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1


----------



## Stillhart

kingdixon said:


> Well, Kudos for everyone who made an early order and waited all this time, i made my order on September and i can hardly wait !!
> 
> Also, i was wondering how good will the carbon work with line out from a DAP like X5 or ZX2, as i don't have any standalone quality dac..
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll test it with my X5's line out later.  I'm sure it will be fine, other than the fact that the DAC in the X5 isn't particularly... to my taste anymore.


----------



## defbear

incognitodave said:


> There's a thread for that.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
> 
> ...


I am using the Emotiva Stealth DAC 1 with my LC. It sounds great and I won't be searching for a better dac. The Emotiva has balanced outs and it was on sale for $399.00.


----------



## defbear

incognitodave said:


> There's a thread for that.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
> 
> ...


I am using the Emotiva Stealth DAC 1 with my LC. It sounds great and I won't be searching for a better dac. The Emotiva has balanced outs and it was on sale for $399.00.


----------



## Mr Rick

defbear said:


> I am using the Emotiva Stealth DAC 1 with my LC. It sounds great and I won't be searching for a better dac. The Emotiva has balanced outs and it was on sale for $399.00.


 
  
 Based on the comments of defbear I also purchased the DC-1. I am happy with it in all respects. A very solid piece of kit.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 You will find my short review on the DC-1 thread


----------



## doctorjazz

I use my Pono line out into my amps, find it works fine. Will try on the LC when the kazillion hour break in is completed...
(have the X3, didn't love it, gave it to my daughter, got the DX90, better than the X3 but like the Pono best of the 3)


----------



## MattTCG

Just got the Carbon today. I have heard it several times before for extended sessions. This is a very good, versatile amp. I guess the most encouraging statement that I can make about it, is that it has the Cavalli house sound. What that means to me, in a word, is "engaging." All the Cavalli amps that I've heard have that same ability. 
  
 It's very early on, so I won't say much more than I like the Carbon very much.


----------



## Youth

matttcg said:


> Just got the Carbon today. I have heard it several times before for extended sessions. This is a very good, versatile amp. I guess the most encouraging statement that I can make about it, is that it has the Cavalli house sound. What that means to me, in a word, is "engaging." All the Cavalli amps that I've heard have that same ability.
> 
> It's very early on, so I won't say much more than I like the Carbon very much.


 
  
 I see you didn't forget the powercord


----------



## Emerpus

Got my #137 LC on 18 Nov delivered to Singapore.
  
 Always on (whole chain except N6), burn-in with music playing for >200hrs
  
 Cayin N6 -> Coax - > Schiit Gumby -> Balance XLR -> Cavalli Liquid Carbon (Unity Gain) -> DUM XLR -> MrSpeakers Ether
  
 The vocals were a little bright for my taste right out of the box. That tamed over time (most obvious change for me). The rest I can't really describe, except it sounded a little, slightly better ... a little more ... smoother ... a little more ... sucking me in.
  
 All I can say was the I'm loving this setup more and more each day. Most of the time I stop thinking of what setup I have and enjoy the music.

 It's very much beyond 150 hours ... so the sound should be stable. Maybe it's just my brains burning in now.
  
 One thing I love about the LC is how well it plays at very low volume. I typically play at 1x gain with the volume pot at 9-10 o'clock.
  
 Sometimes, I listen at 8.30 o'clock and I can still clearly enjoy the whole song ... every nuances and notes clearly. Of course, the room is fairly quiet with doors, windows closed and curtains drawn (aircon on). But I do have a waterfall about 25m away just beyond my windows/curtains.
  
 I have not found the need to go beyond 11 o'clock when using the Ether. If I switch to the Alpha Prime, I'll have to go beyond 12noon to about 1pm. Maybe a little more.
  
 Have not done an A/B with the iFi iCan Micro yet so I don't want to comment on the differences. Now, need to find more time to listen to music


----------



## warrenpchi

emerpus said:


> I do have a waterfall about 25m away just beyond my windows/curtains


 
  
 More impressions on this please.


----------



## sling5s

When you say "engaging".  Is it the Woo Audio WA5 or Ether kind where you literally "feel" and are immersed in the music or the Schiit Audio or Grado kind where the music is forward and lively? 
  
 Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just got the Carbon today. I have heard it several times before for extended sessions. This is a very good, versatile amp. I guess the most encouraging statement that I can make about it, is that it has the Cavalli house sound. What that means to me, in a word, is "engaging." All the Cavalli amps that I've heard have that same ability.
> 
> It's very early on, so I won't say much more than I like the Carbon very much.


----------



## doctorjazz

Taking a listen while I'm on kazillion hour break in, sounding pretty nice. Source is an old iPod touch on shuffle/repeat, so not sounding source the best available (but good for continuous break in). Kinda fun-haven't used the Touch in a while, so the music on it was loaded a while back. Fun to hear some of this stuff I haven't heard on a while. Weekend I'll get to plug into a better source and listen SERIOUSLY!


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Taking a listen while I'm on kazillion hour break in, sounding pretty nice. Source is an old iPod touch on shuffle/repeat, so not sounding source the best available (but good for continuous break in). Kinda fun-haven't used the Touch in a while, so the music on it was loaded a while back. Fun to hear some of this stuff I haven't heard on a while. Weekend I'll get to plug into a better source and listen SERIOUSLY!


I took my Macbook Pro and created a Playlist of all my favorite music. The list lasts 6 days. So the amp gets burned in with the music it is going to be used with. I'm using Audirvana Plus set to max upsampling. This is plugged into my Emotiva Stealth Dac1 via USB. Then the Emotiva balanced outs to the Liquid Carbon balanced in. The full Monte! So the idea of Burn-In isn't just to warm up the amp but to give it some input, some music to exercise those little chips. Make them do their work. But here is the question. Is an ipod touch, as capable of Burning - in, as my full - blown setup is? Probably nothing to worry about.


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> Taking a listen while I'm on kazillion hour break in, sounding pretty nice. Source is an old iPod touch on shuffle/repeat, so not sounding source the best available (but good for continuous break in). Kinda fun-haven't used the Touch in a while, so the music on it was loaded a while back. Fun to hear some of this stuff I haven't heard on a while. Weekend I'll get to plug into a better source and listen SERIOUSLY!


 

 Lol, I almost feel like "Liquid Carbon Kazillion-Hour Break-In" should be a thread in and of itself... because you know, we don't have enough threads.


----------



## Emerpus

warrenpchi said:


> More impressions on this please.


 
  
 Oh that has been burned in for over 2500 hours already. It can get as loud as 75db yet sounding therapeutic at the same time. But it's usually jealous of me spending time with my LC so I'll have to close the doors/windows or I'll hear her roar!


----------



## doctorjazz

I didn't think it mattered what the source of music was for break in, just that sound was going in (there are wire noise break in tracks out there, which some say are best for break in, others say make no difference). Balanced vs single ended input also shouldn't make a difference, because of the splitter.

And, yes, I'll be starting "The kazillion hour break in" thread and the "Impressions on the impressions on the Liquid Carbon" threads any day now. I may also start "Getting your hearing tested before getting a dac and having impressions on the Liquid Carbon" about the same time. Can't have too many Liquid Carbon threads!


----------



## swspiers

doctorjazz said:


> I didn't think it mattered what the source of music was for break in, just that sound was going in (there are wire noise break in tracks out there, which some say are best for break in, others say make no difference). Balanced vs single ended input also shouldn't make a difference, because of the splitter.
> 
> And, yes, I'll be starting "The kazillion hour break in" thread and the "Impressions on the impressions on the Liquid Carbon" threads any day now. I may also start "Getting your hearing tested before getting a dac and having impressions on the Liquid Carbon" about the same time. Can't have too many Liquid Carbon threads!


 
 Please do this. Please: they can always get deleated later!


----------



## f0oster

I really need to stop reading this thread.
  
 I haven't even got my shipping confirmation yet and all I want to do is start burning in my Liquid Carbon...


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, but first, I'll start "What to have for Dinner before listening to and developing impressions on the Liquid Carbon", which will have to follow my "What to have for breakfast before deciding on what to have for dinner before listening and developing impressions on the Liquid Carbon" thread, but, before that...
:rolleyes:


----------



## Cardiiiii

f0oster said:


> I really need to stop reading this thread.
> 
> I haven't even got my shipping confirmation yet and all I want to do is start burning in my Liquid Carbon...


 
  
 Tell me about it


----------



## rcoleman1

f0oster said:


> I really need to stop reading this thread.
> 
> I haven't even got my shipping confirmation yet and all I want to do is start burning in my Liquid Carbon...


 

 +1.


----------



## pipedreamer

kingdixon said:


> Well, Kudos for everyone who made an early order and waited all this time, i made my order on September and i can hardly wait !!
> 
> Also, i was wondering how good will the carbon work with line out from a DAP like X5 or ZX2, as i don't have any standalone quality dac..
> 
> ...


 

 Yes!
  
 The ZX2 works very well with the LC. As the LC is essentially very transparent, the character f the ZX2 comes through well. gain is no problem. I have it set to unity (1x) and it drives all my headphones (connected balanced) to high volumes easily. No 3x gain necessary...


----------



## m usicguy

HI   Headfi.org.
  
  
 I just placed my order for a LC.  ????? Did i get one??   Their web site kept going blank with nothing in my cart?   I just kept trying till i got an order number?  I own many Pass made products.  I hope to compare these amps to this.  I know it kinda two worlds.  But??   Speakers and headphoes??   Amps make a difference!!!  
  
  
 musicguy


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems to me a Pass/LC comparison is kinda unfair...


----------



## bearFNF

m usicguy said:


> HI   Headfi.org.
> 
> 
> I just placed my order for a LC.  ????? Did i get one??   I own many Pass made products.  I hope to compare these amps to his.  I know it kinda two worlds.  But??   Speakers and headphoes??   Amps make a difference!!!
> ...


You should get a confirmation email from Cavalli with your order number. Give them a few days, but if you don't get the confirmation, email them to ask about it.


----------



## pippen99

Probably at around 130 hours now.  This is an amazing little amp.  Great bass with much better soundstage.  I am going back and forth between LCD-X and ETHER.  While the jury is still out the edge goes to the X.  More controlled bottom end with a fuller all around sound.  Also just pulled the trigger on an Auralic Aries Mini.  I was looking for a second laptop for the bedroom which is where my system lives.  I did not want to spend 4 figures on a streamer.  The Mini is being offered for $549 with 1 free year of Tidal.  Got mine from Audio Advisor.  They have the white in stock with the black arriving 12/08.  Hope this is really what I want?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

doctorjazz said:


> OK, but first, I'll start "What to have for Dinner before listening to and developing impressions on the Liquid Carbon", which will have to follow my "What to have for breakfast before deciding on what to have for dinner before listening and developing impressions on the Liquid Carbon" thread, but, before that...
> :rolleyes:




I would prefer what wine to serve with your LC, commensurate with its point on the "kazilion hour break-in".


----------



## doctorjazz

wildcatsare1 said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > OK, but first, I'll start "What to have for Dinner before listening to and developing impressions on the Liquid Carbon", which will have to follow my "What to have for breakfast before deciding on what to have for dinner before listening and developing impressions on the Liquid Carbon" thread, but, before that...
> ...



Always room for another thread, the "Wine matching for the LC" sounds like a winner thread...


----------



## doctorjazz

Does Red or White wine go better with the LC...? Hmmmm...

(more of a beer man myself!)


----------



## Mr Rick

doctorjazz said:


> Does Red or White wine go better with the LC...? Hmmmm...
> 
> (more of a beer man myself!)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pinot noir of course.


----------



## bearFNF

Whiskey is my choice.


----------



## doctorjazz

Developing a taste for scotch (which I need like a hole in my head, but, what the heck).


----------



## J4MES

pippen99 said:


> Probably at around 130 hours now.  This is an amazing little amp.  Great bass with much better soundstage.  I am going back and forth between LCD-X and ETHER.  While the jury is still out the edge goes to the X.  More controlled bottom end with a fuller all around sound.  Also just pulled the trigger on an Auralic Aries Mini.  I was looking for a second laptop for the bedroom which is where my system lives.  I did not want to spend 4 figures on a streamer.  The Mini is being offered for $549 with 1 free year of Tidal.  Got mine from Audio Advisor.  They have the white in stock with the black arriving 12/08.  Hope this is really what I want?




Have you received your mini yet? 95% of my music is now streamed and been looking for a small streamer (Tidal ideally) and was looking at the various RaspberryPi streamers but they didn't seem todo internet based steaming. This hpwever maybe exactly what I'm looking for.


----------



## Stillhart

bearfnf said:


> Whiskey is my choice.


 
  
  


doctorjazz said:


> Developing a taste for scotch (which I need like a hole in my head, but, what the heck).


 
  
 The fine folks from RHA introduced me to good Scotch whiskey at RMAF.  Now I have a bottle of whiskey that cost way too much and I know what all the fuss is about.  I still can't stand bourbon and such tho.
  
 I'm going to bring them a bottle of mezcal when I see them at CES.


----------



## pippen99

j4mes said:


> Have you received your mini yet? 95% of my music is now streamed and been looking for a small streamer (Tidal ideally) and was looking at the various RaspberryPi streamers but they didn't seem todo internet based steaming. This hpwever maybe exactly what I'm looking for.


 
 I just ordered today.  I have not used any streaming service to this point.  I was going to get a notebook to keep in the bedroom to use as a homeshare on ITunes.  Now I will get to stream from my desktop(all music ALAC ripped from CD) and find out what all the fuss about Tidal is about.  I know several people who rave about Tidal.  Audio Advisor has the white version in stock.  The black is supposed to come in on 12/08.  I ordered black so it will be about 11/14 days before I receive it.  Also already have an Ipad for the Lightning app so this made much more sense than buying another laptop.


----------



## doctorjazz

pippen99 said:


> j4mes said:
> 
> 
> > Have you received your mini yet? 95% of my music is now streamed and been looking for a small streamer (Tidal ideally) and was looking at the various RaspberryPi streamers but they didn't seem todo internet based steaming. This hpwever maybe exactly what I'm looking for.
> ...




I use TIDAL, like the sound (though, tbh, haven't really done a one on one comparison with Spotify or others. Do find the sound to be really good, though). User interface, not so good. Doesn't have good playlists like some others do, hard to find things on it. My daughter, who doesn't care if it sounds better or not, keeps bugging me to get Spotify, and I keep looking for other high resolution options, but haven't changed as of yet. 
I was tempted by the streamer as well, but there are really enough ways to stream these days, and I'm expecting LH Labs stuff that should stream (one of these days...)


----------



## grizzlybeast

Do you guys think this will power the he5le well? 
  
 I can't recall the power requirements for the he5le
  
 I know its not enough for the he-6


----------



## Clemmaster

grizzlybeast said:


> Do you guys think this will power the he5le well?
> 
> I can't recall the power requirements for the he5le
> 
> I know its not enough for the he-6


 
 It's gonna play music for sure, but not really optimal.
  
 The SA-31SE is great for these.


----------



## Mr Rick

grizzlybeast said:


> Do you guys think this will power the he5le well?
> 
> I can't recall the power requirements for the he5le
> 
> I know its not enough for the he-6


 

38 ΩEfficiency88.0 dB SPL/mW


----------



## grizzlybeast

Yeah, I'll pass on the 5le


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> The fine folks from RHA introduced me to good Scotch whiskey at RMAF.  Now I have a bottle of whiskey that cost way too much and I know what all the fuss is about.  I still can't stand bourbon and such tho.
> 
> I'm going to bring them a bottle of mezcal when I see them at CES.


 
  
 That was some fine drink they had with them, for sure. I've been occasionally enjoying two fingers of Caol Ila while listening to the LC. I have to thank Dan Clark for introducing me to that brand.


----------



## A2029

grizzlybeast said:


> Do you guys think this will power the he5le well?
> 
> I can't recall the power requirements for the he5le
> 
> I know its not enough for the he-6


 
  
 Yes, it has more than enough power for the he5le. At 88.0 dB SPL/mW, you'd need 0.5 watts to hit 115 SPL, which would be extremely (uncomfortably) loud for most music. I believe that Alex said the Carbon will do up to 1.5 watt sustained, and 2.8 watt peaks...
  
  
 Please read:
 http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/09/more-power.html


----------



## purk

Mine has completed the burn in process.  The Liquid carbon does resemble many sound characteristics of the GS-X MKII but to a lesser degree.  Through the balanced headphone output, this amp exhibits wide soundstage, reasonably depth, and generous bass output with very nice clarity.  It is very transparent and scale well with higher end source.  However, it can't quite match the "sense of power" of larger amps and falls a little short in the depth of the soundstage department when directly compared to my Headroom Balanced Ultra Desktop & Ultra Desktop amplifiers with a dedicated power supply unit.  Overall this is a great great sounding amplifier for the price.  I highly recommended it to anyone.


----------



## bearFNF

stillhart said:


> The fine folks from RHA introduced me to good Scotch whiskey at RMAF.  Now I have a bottle of whiskey that cost way too much and I know what all the fuss is about.  I still can't stand bourbon and such tho.
> 
> I'm going to bring them a bottle of mezcal when I see them at CES.



That was some good whiskey that they had.


----------



## doctorjazz

CES sounds like fun, I'm jealous.


----------



## jarnopp

grizzlybeast said:


> Do you guys think this will power the he5le well?
> 
> I can't recall the power requirements for the he5le
> 
> I know its not enough for the he-6




I don't (yet, if ever). I'm going to try it. Just ordered some used HE-6 off Audiogon. Will report back after 1) phones arrive, 2) LC arrives, 3) a gazillion hours of burn-in. If it don't work, they have the speaker tap adapter included. Or one of you will buy them!


----------



## x RELIC x

Oops! Wrong LC thread!


----------



## zachawry

It's been covered so many times. The amp is capable of both SE and BA output, but if you use SE more than 15% of the time, it sends a secret signal back to Cavalli HQ through the tiny wormhole build into the Kobiconn connector (nobody looks there!), and Dr. Cavalli dispatches a squad of ninjas to come steal your Carbon and give it to somebody more deserving who won't waste 3/4 of its power.


----------



## doctorjazz

zachawry said:


> It's been covered so many times. The amp is capable of both SE and BA output, but if you use SE more than 15% of the time, it sends a secret signal back to Cavalli HQ through the tiny wormhole build into the Kobiconn connector (nobody looks there!), and Dr. Cavalli dispatches a squad of ninjas to come steal your Carbon and give it to somebody more deserving who won't waste 3/4 of its power.


----------



## mikemercer

zachawry said:


> It's been covered so many times. The amp is capable of both SE and BA output, but if you use SE more than 15% of the time, it sends a secret signal back to Cavalli HQ through the tiny wormhole build into the Kobiconn connector (nobody looks there!), and Dr. Cavalli dispatches a squad of ninjas to come steal your Carbon and give it to somebody more deserving who won't waste 3/4 of its power.


 
 this is my choice for _*POST OF THE YEAR*_!!!!


----------



## mikemercer

I gotta say I'm SO proud of my boy @warrenpchi for his piece on the LC in the Head-Fi Buyers Guide!!
  
 Gathering my notes for more impressions now fellas!
 SORRY - once I'm settled into my new place (hopefully 2nd half of December - maybe early January - the dude who lives there now is moving out on Dec. 15th) I'll be able to get back to better consistency/greater frequency here on Head-Fi... The divorce is starting to be not so CRAZILY-combative - so its leaves time for sharing and writing outside my paid editorial commitments!
  
 In the meantime - gotta grab some coffee, all those notes (since I've traveled with my LC now) and spit out some more POSITIVE impressions of my LC experience!! Seriously, as a music and audio journalist, I've always said there is no "best" in audio. I believe this, because, no matter what, we're listening to and sharing our thoughts about MUSIC - sure the sound is important to us Head-Fi phreaks, but for me, it's the musical experience overall that matters.
  
 And:
 Watching my girlfriend cry while listening to the LC + my MrSpeakers ETHER-Cs (via Double Helix Cables) is the epitome of a grand audiophile experience. The music was moving her so much (a track off the new Adele record that I'm reviewing for _HiFi+ Magazine_) that she couldn't hold back those tears. And I just brought along a lil' HRT MicroStreamer for the USB DAC!! But it was somethin special...
  
 How ANYBODY could hate on this amplifier is beyond me. My Audeze DECKARD (or, should I call it the Audeze/Lehmann, or Matrix M-Stage now)? LC CRUSHES IT - the LC, for me, CRUSHES the headphone amplifier output on my McIntosh D100 ($2,500 bucks)! Of course I love the DAC there - but the LC, IMHO, especially after achieving 150+ hours of break-in, is the greatest performance-per-price value in high end personal audio RIGHT NOW. I think...
  
 Impressions to come after Caffeine Injection!!!!


----------



## MattTCG

After a few days with the Carbon here's a bullet list of strengths and weaknesses from yours truly:
  
 Pros:
  
 *very transparent 
  
 *has good "scale" with better dacs/source
  
 *uncanny ability to work with a broad range of headphones from sensitive iems to tough to drive planars
  
 *one of the top five amps for me on "engagement" factor irregardless of price (sucks me in like a drug to the music every time)
  
 *versatile functionality and great form factor
  
 *reasonable price
  
 Cons:
  
 *won't drive the most power hungry headphone (he6)
  
 *performance is somewhat limited by the power supply IMO (would love to see what this amp would do with an external stacking PSU)
  
 *In fairness, I think that it was a learning process in terms of mass producing an amp like this for Cavalli. I got somewhat frustrated with delays and the reasons for those delays and pulled out of the pre-order process. Fate dealt me a sweet card and I ended up with a Carbon anyway and I am thrilled to own it. I give the amp an enthusiastic thumbs up and MattTCG seal of approval.


----------



## Idsynchrono_24

Has anyone spoken on just what the Carbon brings to the table with regard to IEMs? That'll be my usage scenario so I'm pretty curious about that. Currently using the Leck Mk II which I've preferred to the ALO RX and the Vorzuge Pure II.


----------



## doctorjazz

Fair enough, about to end my kazillion hour break in, curious about the ways it's "limited by its power supply". I'll compare it to the MicroZOTL2 and the RSA HR-2, which happen to be what I have in house. My initial, pre break in listen favored the ZOTL, but I do think the LC has improved with the Kazillion. It IS very light, makes you wonder about the power supply. Since it is built into the unit, experimenting with it is not possible. People DO report some small improvements using LPS with the ZOTL; haven't tried this myself.


----------



## bearFNF

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Has anyone spoken on just what the Carbon brings to the table with regard to IEMs? That'll be my usage scenario so I'm pretty curious about that. Currently using the Leck Mk II which I've preferred to the ALO RX and the Vorzuge Pure II.


 

 My experience with my Roxannes tells me you will want to use this in balanced with your angies and other sensitive IEMs.


----------



## A2029

idsynchrono_24 said:


> Has anyone spoken on just what the Carbon brings to the table with regard to IEMs? That'll be my usage scenario so I'm pretty curious about that. Currently using the Leck Mk II which I've preferred to the ALO RX and the Vorzuge Pure II.


 
  
  


bearfnf said:


> My experience with my Roxannes tells me you will want to use this in balanced with your angies and other sensitive IEMs.


 
  
 I currently have a pair of JH Angies balanced to pair with the amp. While it does sound great (very transparent and little coloration of the sound) there are two downsides: A) although the noise floor does get masked when playing music, you can still hear it when you are plugged in with no music playing (therefore not a black background during quiet passages), and B) feeding the amp via balanced connections (from my Yggdrasil in this case) there is very little play in the volume knob between having an imbalance in the channels due to having the volume too low, and getting a headache from having the volume too high...
  
 That said, if you don't feed it with 4.0V RMS into the balanced, there should be more play in the volume knob.


----------



## doctorjazz

I guess it depends on which iems you use balanced-the only 2 pairs of headphones I have that are balabced are HE-1000 and acs Encores. With the Encores, when I change to the balanced cable and plug it into my Pono, I have absolutely no play with the volume-the digital volume is loud but listenable on the first notch up, can't turn it above that, and, obviously, can't turn it down at all, becomes silent. Wasn't the case with the single ended cable, must increase the sensitivity considerably, I'd guess...


----------



## mikemercer

matttcg said:


> After a few days with the Carbon here's a bullet list of strengths and weaknesses from yours truly:
> 
> Pros:
> 
> ...


 
  
 NICELY done Matt!
 and at this price, I wouldn't expect it to drive the most power-hungry cans - IMHO
  
 and I love it with my JH Audio Roxannes (runnin' fully-balanced with DHC custom balanced cables for CIEMs) and my JH-13 Freqphase!
  
 I know, from my own experience with the Carbon, now at 150+ break-in - that whatever went down - the amps killer!
  
 Just been caught-up finishing some editorial work that pays the bills, and I'll do more Impressions
 - will post a few right now...
  
 The punch of the lower-mids, bottom-end, and mids in the new Adele record (via FLAC - Amarra Symphony/my MacBook Pro SSD - Questyle CAS192 DAC - balanced - Nordost Heimdall USB/power and DHC XLR signal cables into the Carbon - DHC balanced headphone leads - my MrSpeakers ETHER-Cs) are splendidly rendered. The piano is airy and authoritative, and her vocals are rich and lifelike/soulful. Overall the music is full-bodied and dynamic. The micro and macro-dynamic details are dimensionally precise, and the musics got sparkle.
  
  
 I'm LOVIN' the Carbon!!

 **** here w/ my Audeze LCD-2F and Double Helix Cables in a hotel room during a business meeting recently...


----------



## MattTCG

FYI...my setup is: Gumby>Silvergarde XLR cables from Norne Audio>Liquid Carbon. I'm using a nice power cord made by @funch


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, got around to the first of my comparisons, have my kazillion hours on the LC, my favorite amp at home is the MicroZOTL2, figured I'd run them off against each other. I'm running my PC with JRiver21 or Ponoplayer, LH labs 2G usb/Regen/Geek Out Special Edition/HE-1000 with Norne Zoetic cables (it is a balanced cable for the LC, with a single ended adapter for the ZOTL). Well, my tongue is hanging out a bit...this (LC) is one sweet little amp. No, it is not better than the ZOTL-in fact the ZOTL bests it in depth of field, width, imaging, detail, and reality of presentation, pretty much all those audiophile checklist items (and significantly). . BUT, at about half the price, the LC acquits itself quite well, putting out as great musical experience into the HEK. (listening to Omer Avital's "Anthem to Life", hi rez download right now, went through Hi Rez Dead, All Time Low, a Chesky downloat of Mozart Violin Concerto from their sampler, Aimee Mann, Hi Rez Hotel California, Matt Wilson Quartet with John Madeski, , all my usual suspects). The key, telling thing to me was, even though I could hear the improvements when I switched to the ZOTL, I GENERALLY DIDN'T FEEL THE URGE TO SWITCH TO THE ZOTL WHEN LISTENING THROUGH THE LC! Usually, if 1 piece of gear is sounding better, I'm restless when I'm doing the comparisons to get back to the better component from the lesser component. The LC, though, has a high involvement factor: While I could definitely hear the things the ZOTL did better (not getting rid of it any time soon...), while I was listening through the LC, I was really digging the music. I'd say, if you don't have any "high end" amp around, and can spring for it, it is a really good buy (and I understand there are only a small number left). Even if you do have high end gear, if you want something for a second system, for the bedside or work, this will have you enjoying your music and NOT nit picking all the things your higher end gear does better. Way Cool! Glad I succumbed to the hype and went for it (something that doesn't always happen when I succumb to the hype) before I got put on my gear-free diet (there is an advantage to the long preorder sometimes, LOL). 
No way the last ones aren't gone this weekend-if you can use something like this, to quote Bird, "Now's The Time"!


----------



## badf00d

> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...
> Fate dealt me a sweet card and I ended up with a Carbon anyway and I am thrilled to own it. I give the amp an enthusiastic thumbs up and MattTCG seal of approval.
> ...


 
  
 How do we get one of your sweet 'fate' cards to jump the line? I was told by Cavalli Audio that everything was being shipped according to when the orders were received.


----------



## MattTCG

badf00d said:


> How do we get one of your sweet 'fate' cards to jump the line? I was told by Cavalli Audio that everything was being shipped according to when the orders were received.


 
  
 No one can control the card of sweet fate. They are dealt at the whim of the gods. Right place right time.


----------



## doctorjazz

Like Dr. John, I'm usually in the right place, but it musta been the wrong time...


----------



## purk

badf00d said:


> How do we get one of your sweet 'fate' cards to jump the line? I was told by Cavalli Audio that everything was being shipped according to when the orders were received.


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> No one can control the card of sweet fate. They are dealt at the whim of the gods. Right place right time.


 
 It was my amp that Matt purchased used.  Of course, I have a seller remorse and get back in line and purchase another. So my amp will likely shipped toward the end of this month.  I'm not hurting or in a huge hurry b/c I have better amps to listen to, but the Canbon is such a nice amp not to have as a backup or at work.


----------



## immtbiker

Hopefully mine will come back this week.
  
 I will need to start the burn-in process all over again


----------



## jamato8

doctorjazz said:


> OK, got around to the first of my comparisons, have my kazillion hours on the LC, my favorite amp at home is the MicroZOTL2, figured I'd run them off against each other. I'm running my PC with JRiver21 or Ponoplayer, LH labs 2G usb/Regen/Geek Out Special Edition/HE-1000 with Norne Zoetic cables (it is a balanced cable for the LC, with a single ended adapter for the ZOTL). Well, my tongue is hanging out a bit...this (LC) is one sweet little amp. No, it is not better than the ZOTL-in fact the ZOTL bests it in depth of field, width, imaging, detail, and reality of presentation, pretty much all those audiophile checklist items (and significantly). . BUT, at about half the price, the LC acquits itself quite well, putting out as great musical experience into the HEK. (listening to Omer Avital's "Anthem to Life", hi rez download right now, went through Hi Rez Dead, All Time Low, a Chesky downloat of Mozart Violin Concerto from their sampler, Aimee Mann, Hi Rez Hotel California, Matt Wilson Quartet with John Madeski, , all my usual suspects). The key, telling thing to me was, even though I could hear the improvements when I switched to the ZOTL, I GENERALLY DIDN'T FEEL THE URGE TO SWITCH TO THE ZOTL WHEN LISTENING THROUGH THE LC! Usually, if 1 piece of gear is sounding better, I'm restless when I'm doing the comparisons to get back to the better component from the lesser component. The LC, though, has a high involvement factor: While I could definitely hear the things the ZOTL did better (not getting rid of it any time soon...), while I was listening through the LC, I was really digging the music. I'd say, if you don't have any "high end" amp around, and can spring for it, it is a really good buy (and I understand there are only a small number left). Even if you do have high end gear, if you want something for a second system, for the bedside or work, this will have you enjoying your music and NOT nit picking all the things your higher end gear does better. Way Cool! Glad I succumbed to the hype and went for it (something that doesn't always happen when I succumb to the hype) before I got put on my gear-free diet (there is an advantage to the long preorder sometimes, LOL).
> No way the last ones aren't gone this weekend-if you can use something like this, to quote Bird, "Now's The Time"!


 

 I think it will be hard to beat the micro Zotl at any price. I have a custom SS amp here that is superb, dual ps's dual mono and designed by Richard Marsh but the micro betters it. But for a nice sized take with you traveling SE or balanced amp, the LC should be a great amp to have. 
  
 Hopefully I should have mine in not too long. Hello. . . where are you?? lol


----------



## MattTCG

Did Cavalli comment on plugging in two headphones, balanced and single ended, at the same time?


----------



## Colgin

matttcg said:


> Did Cavalli comment on plugging in two headphones, balanced and single ended, at the same time?




IIRC, someone posted about breaking their amp doing just that and I think Alex and others (maybe DBel) explained why that was a No No. I would at least try to trAck back and find those posts before trying any such thing.


----------



## MattTCG

colgin said:


> IIRC, someone posted about breaking their amp doing just that and I think Alex and others (maybe DBel) explained why that was a No No. I would at least try to trAck back and find those posts before trying any such thing.


 
  
 I searched this thread but couldn't find the answer. I will refrain from plugging two in before I hear from Cavalli.


----------



## vince741

@MattTCG: http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/270#post_12118560


----------



## MattTCG

vince741 said:


> @MattTCG: http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/270#post_12118560


 
  
 Thank you for that.


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> I searched this thread but couldn't find the answer. I will refrain from plugging two in before I hear from Cavalli.


 
  
 FWIW, I've done it an my amp didn't break.  *shrug*  Good rule of thumb not to, of course.  But I think the biggest issue is going to be volume matching.  You'll have to crank it to get good volume from the SE with 1/4 the power and that probably won't be good for the other headphone.


----------



## immtbiker

So…after returning for repair my amp because it was not working correctly right out of the box, I just found out that they are sending my amp back via FedEx Home Ground from California!!!
  
 The repair center promised me a one day turn-around, and instead of sending it back to me via FedEx 2 or 3 day air, it sat at the repair place for 3 days, and then they are using the slowest shipping method possible. 8 days!
  
 All in all, it will be 15 days to get this taken care of (even though they should have just sent me a new one immediately), and if I am not home to sign for it, it will be another 3 days. Not happy. Pretty _pissed _actually. Anyone wanna buy an amp? I have lost my sense of humor about this one, and don't really want it anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .


----------



## Audio Addict

immtbiker said:


> So…after returning for repair my amp because it was not working correctly right out of the box, I just found out that they are sending my amp back via FedEx Home Ground from California!!!
> 
> The repair center promised me a one day turn-around, and instead of sending it back to me via FedEx 2 or 3 day air, it sat at the repair place for 3 days, and then they are using the slowest shipping method possible. 8 days!
> 
> ...


 
  
 That really surprises me as everyone has always been very positive on CA customer service.  Disappointing and then add that the warranty is not transferrable


----------



## cskippy

FWIW I believe ALL Liquid Carbons are sold out, and since this isn't a mass produced product, there isn't another carbon lying around to be shipped to you.  They would have to repair yours.  The shipping speed is a let down and I feel for you there.  Just take a breath and enjoy it when it comes.


----------



## canthearyou

immtbiker said:


> So…after returning for repair my amp because it was not working correctly right out of the box, I just found out that they are sending my amp back via FedEx Home Ground from California!!!
> 
> The repair center promised me a one day turn-around, and instead of sending it back to me via FedEx 2 or 3 day air, it sat at the repair place for 3 days, and then they are using the slowest shipping method possible. 8 days!
> 
> All in all, it will be 15 days to get this taken care of (even though they should have just sent me a new one immediately), and if I am not home to sign for it, it will be another 3 days. Not happy. Pretty _pissed_ actually. Anyone wanna buy an amp? I have lost my sense of humor about this one, and don't really want it anymore :rolleyes:  .




I'll give you $300


----------



## doctorjazz

immtbiker said:


> So…after returning for repair my amp because it was not working correctly right out of the box, I just found out that they are sending my amp back via FedEx Home Ground from California!!!
> 
> The repair center promised me a one day turn-around, and instead of sending it back to me via FedEx 2 or 3 day air, it sat at the repair place for 3 days, and then they are using the slowest shipping method possible. 8 days!
> 
> All in all, it will be 15 days to get this taken care of (even though they should have just sent me a new one immediately), and if I am not home to sign for it, it will be another 3 days. Not happy. Pretty _pissed_ actually. Anyone wanna buy an amp? I have lost my sense of humor about this one, and don't really want it anymore :rolleyes:  .





So sorry to hear that, sucks big time! As mentioned above, if there was really exactly 500 made and sold, it would seem there wouldn't be an extra lying around to give you as a replacement. But, does anyone really only build the exact number, no extras? None for reviewers, cousins, that sort of thing? Anyway, had to wait 3 days to finally hook up with the delivery folks when I got mine, it was crazy making as well. It is probably cutting off your nose to spite your face to sell it right away, though, but I can understand the feeling. If you do decide to get rid of it, the hype has been such that I'd guess you wouldn't have trouble finding a buyer. (a real buyer...)


----------



## x RELIC x

cskippy said:


> *FWIW I believe ALL Liquid Carbons are sold out*, and since this isn't a mass produced product, there isn't another carbon lying around to be shipped to you.  They would have to repair yours.  The shipping speed is a let down and I feel for you there.  Just take a breath and enjoy it when it comes.




There's some left according to the web site. The customer needs to email them to order one because the web site doesn't have any means of cutting off sales at 500. I suspect just a couple remain.


----------



## Colgin

stillhart said:


> FWIW, I've done it an my amp didn't break.  *shrug*  Good rule of thumb not to, of course.  But I think the biggest issue is going to be volume matching.  You'll have to crank it to get good volume from the SE with 1/4 the power and that probably won't be good for the other headphone.





Have you used the SE output much. I jus ordered one of the few remaining LCs today and my understanding is that while the balanced output is of course better, the SE is still pretty good (especially compared to certain balanced amps that offer a SE more as a matter of convenience). Hope I did not make a mistake. Anyway I guess I don't care if I need to turn the volume knob a bit more as long as it sounds good and doesn't start to distort from the strain. Also, my cans are fairly efficient - Oppo PM-2, Senn HD 600 and some AKGs. Would prefer not to have to spend a couple hundred dollars each for each of the Oppo and Senn balanced cables.


----------



## rollinbr

colgin said:


> Have you used the SE output much. I jus ordered one of the few remaining LCs today and my understanding is that while the balanced output is of course better, the SE is still pretty good (especially compared to certain balanced amps that offer a SE more as a matter of convenience). Hope I did not make a mistake. Anyway I guess I don't care if I need to turn the volume knob a bit more as long as it sounds good and doesn't start to distort from the strain. Also, my cans are fairly efficient - Oppo PM-2, Senn HD 600 and some AKGs. Would prefer not to have to spend a couple hundred dollars each for each of the Oppo and Senn balanced cables.


 
 Here's an inexpensive one for the HD600. http://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Version-balance-ZY-002-2-5M/dp/B00A2QJLY8


----------



## Colgin

rollinbr said:


> Here's an inexpensive one for the HD600. http://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-Version-balance-ZY-002-2-5M/dp/B00A2QJLY8




Thanks. I actually saw that before. My issue is that I need long runs of cables, like 4 or 5 meters. The Oppo cable at that length is $200. I haven't found a Senn one at that length although I am sure they are out there; and custom would be presumably expensive. I looked for balanced extension cords but only found 3 pin, not 4 pin ones.


----------



## rollinbr

colgin said:


> Thanks. I actually saw that before. My issue is that I need long runs of cables, like 4 or 5 meters. The Oppo cable at that length is $200. I haven't found a Senn one at that length although I am sure they are out there; and custom would be presumably expensive. I looked for balanced extension cords but only found 3 pin, not 4 pin ones.


 
 I would check with this seller on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Handmade-Dyson-Audio-Gotham-Sennheiser-HD-650-600-580-565-Headphone-Cable-/351497929485
  
 I just bought a balanced (TRRS-XLR) Oppo PM-3 cable from him and he was willing to make it 3 meters instead of 2. Price was pretty sweet too.


----------



## Stillhart

colgin said:


> Have you used the SE output much. I jus ordered one of the few remaining LCs today and my understanding is that while the balanced output is of course better, the SE is still pretty good (especially compared to certain balanced amps that offer a SE more as a matter of convenience). Hope I did not make a mistake. Anyway I guess I don't care if I need to turn the volume knob a bit more as long as it sounds good and doesn't start to distort from the strain. Also, my cans are fairly efficient - Oppo PM-2, Senn HD 600 and some AKGs. Would prefer not to have to spend a couple hundred dollars each for each of the Oppo and Senn balanced cables.


 
  
 Of course the SE sounds good, you're just losing a lot of power.  For a headphone that doesn't need much power like the PM-2 or the AKG's, it'll be plenty.  For the HD600, I'd suggest you get a balanced cable to take advantage of the extra power.  I tested the LC with my HD650 in SE mode and then balanced and it sounded notably better to my ears when run from balanced (probably due to 4x the power).
  
 You might check the DIY cable thread to see if any DIY'ers on here will make you one for cheap.  Components for the cable should cost no more than $40 for a reasonable length (say 6') and then with some gratuity, it shouldn't be too crazy.  There are some crazy skilled folks in that thread...


----------



## pippen99

rollinbr said:


> I would check with this seller on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Handmade-Dyson-Audio-Gotham-Sennheiser-HD-650-600-580-565-Headphone-Cable-/351497929485
> 
> I just bought a balanced (TRRS-XLR) Oppo PM-3 cable from him and he was willing to make it 3 meters instead of 2. Price was pretty sweet too.


 
 +1 for Dyson.  I bought some XLR interconnects from Dyson.  Great quality and craftsmanship for a very good price.


----------



## Colgin

Don't want to pull the thread too off topic, but thanks for all the suggestions for balanced cables.


----------



## coastal1

Was there a post that was deleted about production of this amp? I could've sworn there was a post in this thread about production problems and 'balls getting dropped,' but maybe it's in one of the other 3 threads about this amp



immtbiker said:


> So…after returning for repair my amp because it was not working correctly right out of the box, I just found out that they are sending my amp back via FedEx Home Ground from California!!!
> 
> The repair center promised me a one day turn-around, and instead of sending it back to me via FedEx 2 or 3 day air, it sat at the repair place for 3 days, and then they are using the slowest shipping method possible. 8 days!
> 
> All in all, it will be 15 days to get this taken care of (even though they should have just sent me a new one immediately), and if I am not home to sign for it, it will be another 3 days. Not happy. Pretty _pissed_ actually. Anyone wanna buy an amp? I have lost my sense of humor about this one, and don't really want it anymore :rolleyes:  .


----------



## bearFNF

No movement on amp yet...


----------



## Colgin

coastal1 said:


> Was there a post that was deleted about production of this amp? I could've sworn there was a post in this thread about production problems and 'balls getting dropped,' but maybe it's in one of the other 3 threads about this amp




Yes, there was a post yesterday from Mike Mercer that appears to now be gone.


----------



## coastal1

Well, that's odd. I realize $600 is well below any other Cavalli amp, but there's also plenty of other $600 amps that don't seem to need to be sent back to make things right. Hope I get one of the gems and not one of the dropped balls.



colgin said:


> Yes, there was a post yesterday from Mike Mercer that appears to now be gone.


----------



## rcoleman1

coastal1 said:


> Well, that's odd. I realize $600 is well below any other Cavalli amp, but there's also plenty of other $600 amps that don't seem to need to be sent back to make things right. Hope I get one of the gems and not one of the dropped balls.


 
 +1. Truly.


----------



## zachawry

rcoleman1 said:


> +1. Truly.


 

 There's also "first pancake syndrome," where the first pancake in a batch is always the worst and is thrown away. 
  
 In this case, the first run, where all the wrinkles get ironed out, is the only run, so we're all first pancakes!


----------



## mscott58

coastal1 said:


> Well, that's odd. I realize $600 is well below any other Cavalli amp, but there's also plenty of other $600 amps that don't seem to need to be sent back to make things right. Hope I get one of the gems and not one of the dropped balls.




I've only read about a few that might have had an issue. Mine has been perfect. Don't see anything bad going on and Alex seems to be really standing behind his products, which is not a surprise at all since he's a great guy. Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

coastal1 said:


> Well, that's odd. I realize $600 is well below any other Cavalli amp, but there's also plenty of other $600 amps that don't seem to need to be sent back to make things right. Hope I get one of the gems and not one of the dropped balls.


 
  
 Not sure what you mean by this.  If your Schiit amp has a problem, you fix it in your house?


----------



## doctorjazz

They don't make house calls????


----------



## Cardiiiii

Has anyone heard the Auralic Taurus MK II. I know they aren't in the same price bracket or anything else, but just thoughts?


----------



## coastal1

There was a post yesterday that has now been deleted, which seems odd. The poster claimed to know both Dr. Cavalli and the production team and the poster said that 'several balls were dropped' during production and that Cavalli would make things right, but that products shipped out were not always up to par. I have no idea if the post was deleted because it was untrue or what, but seems odd that it was just deleted without retraction.



stillhart said:


> Not sure what you mean by this.  If your Schiit amp has a problem, you fix it in your house?


----------



## doctorjazz

The post itself was kind of odd...


----------



## sheldaze

coastal1 said:


> Well, that's odd. I realize $600 is well below any other Cavalli amp, but there's also *plenty of other $600 amps* that don't seem to need to be sent back to make things right. Hope I get one of the gems and not one of the dropped balls.


 
 I disagree.
  
 There may be other $600 amplifiers, but I know of no other balanced amplifiers - and I know there is not much desire on this site to buy American, but I would also add that to the feature set of this amplifier. And I would add that it has a truly usable single-ended intput (both in RCA and 1/8" variety). And it has a truly usable single-ended output. The only other amplifier to qualify (being balanced and having low price, missing the single-ended features) - I bought the Mjolnir when its price was reduced to $550. It was fantastically clean-sounding and had no noise to speak of due to the architecture. However its sound was not, in my opinion, at the same level as the Cavalli.
  
 So excuse me if I disagree, but I feel the $600 is a bargain. I know of no other amplifier.


----------



## grizzlybeast

coastal1 said:


> There was a post yesterday that has now been deleted, which seems odd. The poster claimed to know both Dr. Cavalli and the production team and the poster said that 'several balls were dropped' during production and that Cavalli would make things right, but that products shipped out were not always up to par. I have no idea if the post was deleted because it was untrue or what, but seems odd that it was just deleted without retraction.


 
 Its probaby good the post was deleted. As I was reading that I was thinking.... "ummm prob not what we needed to read,, somethings aren't meant to be spoken"
  
 All of these companies have hiccups its the nature of manufacturing. Not one company gets it right all the time or never runs into issues.


----------



## sheldaze

grizzlybeast said:


> Its probaby good the post was deleted. As I was reading that I was thinking.... "ummm prob not what we needed to read,, somethings aren't meant to be spoken"
> 
> All of these companies have hiccups its the nature of manufacturing. Not one company gets it right all the time or never runs into issues.


 
 And I feel that Cavalli Audio is taking care of the issues. He has posted many times on this site, and has written to my personally when he felt I _might_ be at a point of having issues with burn-in. He truly is concerned for this amplifier, regardless of its low-cost.


----------



## sheldaze

You must also understand that due to the shipment volume of this amplifier, this is not a traditional Cavalli amplifier. As-in he has needed to use external resources to build and to deliver. I do think much of the criticism is incorrect.
  
 He has still supported it 100%.


----------



## sling5s

sheldaze said:


> I disagree.
> 
> There may be other $600 amplifiers, but I know of no other balanced amplifiers - and I know there is not much desire on this site to buy American, but I would also add that to the feature set of this amplifier. And I would add that it has a truly usable single-ended intput (both in RCA and 1/8" variety). And it has a truly usable single-ended output. The only other amplifier to qualify (being balanced and having low price, missing the single-ended features) - I bought the Mjolnir when its price was reduced to $550. It was fantastically clean-sounding and had no noise to speak of due to the architecture. However its sound was not, in my opinion, at the same level as the Cavalli.
> 
> So excuse me if I disagree, but I feel the $600 is a bargain. I know of no other amplifier.


 

 +1.  
 And now that you brought it up, is the LC also superior to the Mjolnir 2?


----------



## bflat

sling5s said:


> +1.
> And now that you brought it up, is the LC also superior to the Mjolnir 2?


 

 No. It is different and with tube rolling you can make it sound vastly different than LC. Truly an apples to oranges comparison.


----------



## sheldaze

sling5s said:


> +1.
> And now that you brought it up, is the LC also superior to the Mjolnir 2?


 


bflat said:


> No. It is different and with tube rolling you can make it sound vastly different than LC. Truly an apples to oranges comparison.


 
@MattTCG also has both, if he would chime in - perhaps tomorrow, as it is getting late today.


----------



## sling5s

sheldaze said:


> @MattTCG also has both, if he would chime in - perhaps tomorrow, as it is getting late today.


 
 Thanks.


bflat said:


> No. It is different and with tube rolling you can make it sound vastly different than LC. Truly an apples to oranges comparison.


 

 Yeah...I get that...but Mjolnir 2 also has solid state lisst tubes and differences aside, we can still evaluate and compare the qualities of both.


----------



## coastal1

This has been has been possibly the most positively received amps of the year based on impressions at meets, etc. There has been a ton of enthusiasm and hardly any criticism, which is why the post last night by someone supposedly in the know made such an impression.



sheldaze said:


> You must also understand that due to the shipment volume of this amplifier, this is not a traditional Cavalli amplifier. As-in he has needed to use external resources to build and to deliver. I do think much of the criticism is incorrect.
> 
> He has still supported it 100%.


----------



## Stillhart

coastal1 said:


> Well, that's odd. I realize $600 is well below any other Cavalli amp, but there's also *plenty of other $600 amps that don't seem to need to be sent back to make things right.* Hope I get one of the gems and not one of the dropped balls.


 
  
  


coastal1 said:


> There was a post yesterday that has now been deleted, which seems odd. The poster claimed to know both Dr. Cavalli and the production team and the poster said that 'several balls were dropped' during production and that Cavalli would make things right, but that products shipped out were not always up to par. I have no idea if the post was deleted because it was untrue or what, but seems odd that it was just deleted without retraction.


 
  
 I still don't get the "don't need to be sent back to make things right" comment.  If you have a busted amp, it has to be sent back right?  No matter what company you use?


----------



## Cardiiiii

I'm guessing Alex wont be using the same manufacturer to make the portable amp.


----------



## defbear

My LC was in the 1st batch sent out. I just ran it for 8 days straight performing burn in per Dr. Alex's preference. 200 hours without a problem. Got barely warm.


----------



## f0oster

cardiiiii said:


> Has anyone heard the Auralic Taurus MK II. I know they aren't in the same price bracket or anything else, but just thoughts?


 
 I haven't received my Liquid Carbon yet, so I can't compare the two, and honestly I don't think that my comparison would be very fair or accurate considering I don't have access to a Taurus anymore, but I'll post my thoughts on the Taurus anyway...
  
 I've auditioned the Taurus MK II in my local Hi-Fi store with a few different DACs (the Yggy, the MA Hex, more importantly the Vega, which many consider the 'best' pair), and spent a few hours with a friends Taurus and Vega, his HD800, my Ether, and his HE1000. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of the sound. Actually, he wasn't either, and he ended up selling the stack to get an Audio-GD Ref 7 and a HeadAmp GS-X MK2. My opinion may not be very well received on this, but personally I found that (especially when paired with the Vega) the sound was artificially bright, even harsh in many instances. Thin, flat and grainy.. It may pair better with other headphones (and preferences!) I suppose, but, especially with the HD800 and Ether, my listening volumes had to be very low to get any enjoyment from this amp at all. I messed a little with the BAL switch and gain but ultimately, the amp was not for me. Your mileage may vary though...
  
 On that day in my local Hi-Fi store, I also spent about an hour listening to the HeadAmp GS-X MK 2 (... just a bit more expensive ...) which I much preferred. Based on the hype I was very interested in the Taurus but ultimately it did not appeal much to me at all after auditioning. The GS-X has a much a more natural, balanced sound, lovely detailed, deep bass with equally lovely highs. If you're interested in the Taurus try and find one to audition -- I have heard from many sources that the MK1 and MK2 are mostly the same, which some subtle changes to the power supply that realistically do not effect sonic presentation -- once again, YMMV.
  
 Hope this was helpful, even if it is sort of negatively toned...


----------



## f0oster

defbear said:


> My LC was in the 1st batch sent out. I just ran it for 8 days straight performing burn in per Dr. Alex's preference. 200 hours without a problem. Got barely warm.


 
 Sorry to hijack.. but how do you find the LC fares against your Master 11?!?


----------



## defbear

f0oster said:


> Sorry to hijack.. but how do you find the LC fares against your Master 11?!?


The LC fares almost too well with the Master 11. The Master 11 has more Gravitas. It's richer while still being detailed. The LC has more PRAT. It is very rock n roll while being insanely detailed with a huge soundstage. I think if you had a dac-19 and a LC you would be 90 percent there.


----------



## f0oster

defbear said:


> The LC fares almost too well with the Master 11. The Master 11 has more Gravitas. It's richer while still being detailed. The LC has more PRAT. It is very rock n roll while being insanely detailed with a huge soundstage. I think if you had a dac-19 and a LC you would be 90 percent there.


 
 I have a Reference 7, so I'm hoping I'm real close! 
  
 Cheers mate


----------



## swspiers

defbear said:


> The LC fares almost too well with the Master 11. The Master 11 has more Gravitas. It's richer while still being detailed. The LC has more PRAT. It is very rock n roll while being insanely detailed with a huge soundstage. I think if you had a dac-19 and a LC you would be 90 percent there.


 
 You are not making it easier to wait!!!
  
 And now I can add 'gravitas' to my audiophile vocabulary


----------



## digitalzed

sheldaze said:


> And I feel that Cavalli Audio is taking care of the issues. He has posted many times on this site, and has written to my personally when he felt I _might_ be at a point of having issues with burn-in. He truly is concerned for this amplifier, regardless of its low-cost.


 

 I agree 100%. Alex has been very forthcoming with the information we need to know and extremely responsive here on the forum and also via e-mail.


----------



## MattTCG

sheldaze said:


> @MattTCG also has both, if he would chime in - perhaps tomorrow, as it is getting late today.


 
  
 Both of these amps are excellent in their own right. I find the overall performance (dynamics, detail and staging) of the Mjo2 to be somewhat better than the Carbon. I would say roughly about 10-15 better. But I actually prefer the Carbon for a few reasons. 
  
 1. Great "synergy" with Ether, hd800 and hd650 and most other headphones that I've tried the amp with. The Carbon is just an incredibly versatile product.  I sometimes struggle with the power of the mjo 2 even on low gain. I'm a low level listening and I often get channel imbalance with powerful amps when the volume is that low. 
  
 2. Carbon needs no tubes to roll. I tend to spend too much on tubes so this will save me lot's of dollars down the road. 
  
 3. There is a magical quality about the Carbon. In my mind, I call it "engagement" or "musicality." Every time I listen to the Carbon I quickly forget about listening to the qualities of the amp and just get caught up in the enjoyment of the music. At the end of the day, that's what matters most to me.


----------



## Maconi

matttcg said:


> Both of these amps are excellent in their own right. I find the overall performance (dynamics, detail and staging) of the Mjo2 to be somewhat better than the Carbon. I would say roughly about 10-15 better. But I actually prefer the Carbon for a few reasons.
> 
> 1. Great "synergy" with Ether, hd800 and hd650 and most other headphones that I've tried the amp with. The Carbon is just an incredibly versatile product.  I sometimes struggle with the power of the mjo 2 even on low gain. I'm a low level listening and I often get channel imbalance with powerful amps when the volume is that low.
> 
> ...


 
 Are you comparing Solid State Balanced to Solid State Balanced (using the LISST "tubes")? Just curious.


----------



## sheldaze

@sling5s see post #486 above.


----------



## MattTCG

maconi said:


> Are you comparing Solid State Balanced to Solid State Balanced (using the LISST "tubes")? Just curious.


 
  
 Never tried the LISST tubes.


----------



## sling5s

matttcg said:


> Both of these amps are excellent in their own right. I find the overall performance (dynamics, detail and staging) of the Mjo2 to be somewhat better than the Carbon. I would say roughly about 10-15 better. But I actually prefer the Carbon for a few reasons.
> 
> 1. Great "synergy" with Ether, hd800 and hd650 and most other headphones that I've tried the amp with. The Carbon is just an incredibly versatile product.  I sometimes struggle with the power of the mjo 2 even on low gain. I'm a low level listening and I often get channel imbalance with powerful amps when the volume is that low.
> 
> ...


 
  


sheldaze said:


> @sling5s see post #486 above.


 

 Good impressions. I feel the same way when it comes audio gear.  Musicality (tone and timbre) matters more than just sheer detail or imaging. 
 Schiit gear tend to be a little aggressive and dry for my tastes anyways. It's why I have chosen to pair the LC with Dac 19 (10th anniv.).
  
 thanks again MattTCG and Sheldaze.


----------



## MattTCG

sling5s said:


> Good impressions. I feel the same way when it comes audio gear.  Musicality (tone and timbre) matters more than just sheer detail or imaging.
> Schiit gear tend to be a little aggressive and dry for my tastes anyways. It's why* I have chosen to pair the LC with Dac 19 (10th anniv.).*
> 
> thanks again MattTCG and Sheldaze.


 
  
 Perfect combo!! Enjoy...


----------



## Youth

sling5s said:


> Good impressions. I feel the same way when it comes audio gear.  Musicality (tone and timbre) matters more than just sheer detail or imaging.
> Schiit gear tend to be a little aggressive and dry for my tastes anyways. It's why I have chosen to pair the LC with Dac 19 (10th anniv.).
> 
> thanks again MattTCG and Sheldaze.


 
  
 Same


----------



## immtbiker

Hopefully, I will have mine back tomorrow.


----------



## doctorjazz

immtbiker said:


> Hopefully, I will have mine back tomorrow. :rolleyes:




That turned out to be quick, cool!


----------



## defbear

maconi said:


> Are you comparing Solid State Balanced to Solid State Balanced (using the LISST "tubes")? Just curious.


Solid State "Tubes" This type of thing pops up in the guitar amp world all the time. You will see Solid State Tubes at NAMM next month. I have heard tons of Substi-tubes and in my world they are a cheaply dressed failure. It's fun for 15 minutes. The nicest thing I can say is that they are a Sales Pitch. At worst, a Hoax. Bah!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

f0oster said:


> I haven't received my Liquid Carbon yet, so I can't compare the two, and honestly I don't think that my comparison would be very fair or accurate considering I don't have access to a Taurus anymore, but I'll post my thoughts on the Taurus anyway...
> 
> I've auditioned the Taurus MK II in my local Hi-Fi store with a few different DACs (the Yggy, the MA Hex, more importantly the Vega, which many consider the 'best' pair), and spent a few hours with a friends Taurus and Vega, his HD800, my Ether, and his HE1000. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of the sound. Actually, he wasn't either, and he ended up selling the stack to get an Audio-GD Ref 7 and a HeadAmp GS-X MK2. My opinion may not be very well received on this, but personally I found that (especially when paired with the Vega) the sound was artificially bright, even harsh in many instances. Thin, flat and grainy.. It may pair better with other headphones (and preferences!) I suppose, but, especially with the HD800 and Ether, my listening volumes had to be very low to get any enjoyment from this amp at all. I messed a little with the BAL switch and gain but ultimately, the amp was not for me. Your mileage may vary though...
> 
> ...




I'm in total disagreement with your Post. I have the Tarus Mk2 and an upgraded Momarchy M22 DAC. It sounds incredible with my HD800 and LCD-3f, no grain, brightness just awsome musicality. The Taurus Mk.2 was Tyll's reference until being displaced by the Moon 430.

I haven't received my LC yet, but I would happy to write a comparison.


----------



## sheldaze

wildcatsare1 said:


> I'm in total disagreement with your Post. I have the Taurus Mk2 and an upgraded Monarchy M22 DAC. It sounds incredible with my HD800 and LCD-3f, no grain, brightness just awesome musicality. The Taurus Mk.2 was Tyll's reference until being displaced by the Moon 430.
> 
> I haven't received my LC yet, but I would *happy to write a comparison*.


----------



## bflat

I will be connecting my LC with the Bifrost Multibit. But it will be a while before I can report back since I don't have delivery yet and the long burn in.


----------



## musiclvr

bflat said:


> I will be connecting my LC with the Bifrost Multibit. But it will be a while before I can report back since I don't have delivery yet and the long burn in.



I'm totally looking forward to your impressions @bflat


----------



## f0oster

wildcatsare1 said:


> I'm in total disagreement with your Post. I have the Tarus Mk2 and an upgraded Momarchy M22 DAC. It sounds incredible with my HD800 and LCD-3f, no grain, brightness just awsome musicality. The Taurus Mk.2 was Tyll's reference until being displaced by the Moon 430.
> 
> I haven't received my LC yet, but I would happy to write a comparison.


 
 Maybe I should give it another go!  
  
 Looking forward to hearing your comparison.
  
 Cheers


----------



## defbear

I have finished burning in the Liquid Carbon to somewhere about 200 hours straight. I would say everything has been extended a bit. More Bass, Treble, space between instruments and clarity. With the added treble and clarity the amp seemed to gain an added brightness. That seems to relax when the amp is warmed up for an hour. Thank Goodness! The amp is a bit louder as well. There is a Jeff Beck track called Tribal. It has some pretty screaming sonic mayhem with one section towards the end that could test your icepick tolerance. The track sounds great with my hd800's. Really nice extended treble and the extra bass is welcome with the hd800's. And my LCD 2.2f's have Never sounded this good. But, I was thrilled with the amp before burn in. I'm still (a bit more) thrilled. But i'm ambivalent about burn in. I think rather than separating myself from the amp for eight days in the experimentation lab, I would rather just listen to my stuff and let the amp break in with normal use. So would I burn in the LC if I had to do it over again? Nope, not a chance.


----------



## Youth

defbear said:


> I have finished burning in the Liquid Carbon to somewhere about 200 hours straight. I would say everything has been extended a bit. More Bass, Treble, space between instruments and clarity. With the added treble and clarity the amp seemed to gain an added brightness. That seems to relax when the amp is warmed up for an hour. Thank Goodness! The amp is a bit louder as well. There is a Jeff Beck track called Tribal. It has some pretty screaming sonic mayhem with one section towards the end that could test your icepick tolerance. The track sounds great with my hd800's. Really nice extended treble and the extra bass is welcome with the hd800's. And my LCD 2.2f's have Never sounded this good. But, I was thrilled with the amp before burn in. I'm still (a bit more) thrilled. But i'm ambivalent about burn in.* I think rather than separating myself from the amp for eight days in the experimentation lab, I would rather just listen to my stuff and let the amp break in with normal use*. So would I burn in the LC if I had to do it over again? Nope, not a chance.


 
  
 That's what I normally do. Wouldn't be able to resist listening for that long


----------



## swspiers

defbear said:


> IBut, I was thrilled with the amp before burn in. I'm still (a bit more) thrilled. But i'm ambivalent about burn in. I think rather than separating myself from the amp for eight days in the experimentation lab, I would rather just listen to my stuff and let the amp break in with normal use. So would I burn in the LC if I had to do it over again? Nope, not a chance.


 
 And that's the reason I won't be "burning" mine in when I get it.


----------



## defbear

It's a couple of things. You pop something in the Transporter and you get something different back out. That was the goal but it's kind of like cosmetic surgery. Everything is all enhanced at once. You like the amp now and when it's all growed up you haven't noticed but your Aunt stops by for a listen and looks at the LC and says 'My you've grown'. The other thing is sometimes it's just All Too Much. I hear a new rhythmic faint tinking sound that was never there before. I can hear Doyle Bramall's kick drum squeak a little. I was concerned the amp may have refined out and lost some PRAT( I learned to say that here). But nope it did not. And I did visit my LC during burn in and blah blah


----------



## x RELIC x

I'll be burning in my ears with the Liquid Carbon.....


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

swspiers said:


> And that's the reason I won't be "burning" mine in when I get it.


 
  
 I'm not either, mine is only 20 or so hours old.  And I already hear subtle differences (improvements) from minute one...


----------



## immtbiker

doctorjazz said:


> That turned out to be quick, cool!



I'm hoping that was veiled sarcasm?


----------



## doctorjazz

immtbiker said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > That turned out to be quick, cool!
> ...




Wasn't meant sarcastically, seemed to be a quick turnaround to me. Hey, I have had problems with gear over the years-this year, had 2 big ones. Bought acs Tenor custom iems about a year ago (actually started out with the previous top of the line, then upgraded as I was going there with problems). Over the year, have had fit issues, with multiple returns and visits to the Manhattan office. I had the left channel go out, sent for return. Got it back, the right channel was out. Came back recently, and the cable on it went bad. Each time, it was a few weeks between the time I sent it out and got it back. I figure over the year, maybe I had ciems 3-4 months. This was new. Then, my Peachtree Grandpre preamp went out (twice), wasn't brand new, had to send it back each time for repair (thankfully, still under warrantee). Each time it was there many weeks until I got it back. So, from my perspective/experience, a few days seemed pretty quick. Guess you're still pretty angry about the whole affair, sorry :redface:


----------



## Stillhart

For those who plan to listen during break-in, I think that's a perfectly good idea.  But I'd suggest indicating as much if you decide to post impressions before the recommended break-in is complete.  The amp was meant to sound a certain way; it's not really fair to people looking for sonic impressions (or Dr. Cavalli for that matter) to give impressions of the amp before the recommended break-in period (without indicating it).
  
 On a side note, I went back to listening to my LC last night and I was once again blown away by how good it sounds for the price.  I love my Liquid Crimson, but the Carbon is much of the way there for a fraction of the price.  I was listening with the (really enjoyable) ZMF x Vibro mk ii and that headphone sounds great but it isn't the most resolving thing Zach makes (as one would expect for the price).  One of the great benefits of the Liquid Crimson is its super resolving nature and the Vibro just isn't at a level where it can take advantage of that.  Stepping down to the LC with such a headphone offers even less sonic difference than it would with something uber resolving like an HD800.
  
 Speaking of the HD800...


defbear said:


> I have finished burning in the Liquid Carbon to somewhere about 200 hours straight. I would say everything has been extended a bit. More Bass, Treble, space between instruments and clarity. With the added treble and clarity t*he amp seemed to gain an added brightness*. *That seems to relax when the amp is warmed up for an hour. Thank Goodness! *The amp is a bit louder as well. There is a Jeff Beck track called Tribal. *It has some pretty screaming sonic mayhem with one section towards the end that could test your icepick tolerance.* The track sounds great with my hd800's. Really nice extended treble and the extra bass is welcome with the hd800's. And my LCD 2.2f's have Never sounded this good. But, I was thrilled with the amp before burn in. I'm still (a bit more) thrilled. But i'm ambivalent about burn in. I think rather than separating myself from the amp for eight days in the experimentation lab, I would rather just listen to my stuff and let the amp break in with normal use. So would I burn in the LC if I had to do it over again? Nope, not a chance.


 
  
 ...I suspect it might have a little something to do with your icepick situation.


----------



## swspiers

stillhart said:


> For those who plan to listen during break-in, I think that's a perfectly good idea.  But I'd suggest indicating as much if you decide to post impressions before the recommended break-in is complete.  The amp was meant to sound a certain way; it's not really fair to people looking for sonic impressions (or Dr. Cavalli for that matter) to give impressions of the amp before the recommended break-in period (without indicating it).


 
 That's fine and all, but please don't insist that we adhere to the theory of hardware burn-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 There's more than a little pressure in this thread to acknowledge it.  If I experience it, and it would be the first time ever in 40+ years that I have, I'll acknowledge it. But suspect it's my tonographic map adjusting to the signature, I'll note that as well. But with a light heart and a spirit of friendship towards all!!!


----------



## Stillhart

swspiers said:


> That's fine and all, but please don't insist that we adhere to the theory of hardware burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 One thing I will not do in this hobby is tell you what you're hearing.  If you don't hear burn-in, so be it.  But Cavalli does and he suggests 150 hours so I'm suggesting it'd be helpful to indicate if you're not there yet when giving impressions.


----------



## defbear

defbear said:


> I have finished burning in the Liquid Carbon to somewhere about 200 hours straight. I would say everything has been extended a bit. More Bass, Treble, space between instruments and clarity. With the added treble and clarity the amp seemed to gain an added brightness. That seems to relax when the amp is warmed up for an hour. Thank Goodness! The amp is a bit louder as well. There is a Jeff Beck track called Tribal. It has some pretty screaming sonic mayhem with one section towards the end that could test your icepick tolerance. The track sounds great with my hd800's. Really nice extended treble and the extra bass is welcome with the hd800's. And my LCD 2.2f's have Never sounded this good. But, I was thrilled with the amp before burn in. I'm still (a bit more) thrilled. But i'm ambivalent about burn in. I think rather than separating myself from the amp for eight days in the experimentation lab, I would rather just listen to my stuff and let the amp break in with normal use. So would I burn in the LC if I had to do it over again? Nope, not a chance.



Well that's my impression after burning it in for 200 hours. I did go into the music room to have a short listen to. To make sure nothing was broken, breaking, heating. But I didn't bother to listen with an ear towards 'Are we there yet'. I'm naming my amp Alice as it went through the Burn In Hole, or is that Whole. When I asked about natural, organic burn in vs 150 hours I got a two word reply from Alex. 'It's better'. That really wasn't satisfactory to me but I did it anyway. So from my personal experience it is not always better to perform mega burn in. Not doing it with my Master 11 or others. And I have decades of experience with tube and solid state guitar amps. There is about Zip difference between that world and this.


----------



## santacore

I believe breaking in gear with random sessions is actually better then a constant source/load. The randomness helps the caps/parts go through cycles where they have power/signal. If you leave it on 24/7 the caps never get a chance to discharge/reform. Plus, why torture yourself and not enjoy the sonic ride. We have waiting this long to get the amp, why not start enjoying right away.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'd suspect the OCD level is much higher in this world (including myself  )


----------



## warrenpchi

doctorjazz said:


> I'd suspect the OCD level is much higher in this world (including myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nah, we're fine.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go wash my hands, three times.


----------



## coastal1

Yes, what is that?
  
 Quote:


mikemercer said:


>


 
  
 What is that thing you have on top of the Liquid Carbon


----------



## mscott58

coastal1 said:


> What is that thing you have on top of the Liquid Carbon




Most like some type of weight and possibly a vibration absorber. The LC is pretty light and stiff cables can make it move around. I did the same thing. Mine is an acrylic box filled with high viscosity silicone fluid and stainless steel shot, with a silicone foam sheet on the bottom. Also put a silicone mat under the LC to help isolate it and keep it in place. Cheers


----------



## Cardiiiii

A big of blue tac at the bottom should also suffice?


----------



## coastal1

Thanks, figured that was the purpose, just hadn't seen one before.  Anyone have suggestions on a something I can find online?
  
 Quote:


mscott58 said:


> Most like some type of weight and possibly a vibration absorber. The LC is pretty light and stiff cables can make it move around. I did the same thing. Mine is an acrylic box filled with high viscosity silicone fluid and stainless steel shot, with a silicone foam sheet on the bottom. Also put a silicone mat under the LC to help isolate it and keep it in place. Cheers


----------



## zachawry

mscott58 said:


> Most like some type of weight and possibly a vibration absorber. The LC is pretty light and stiff cables can make it move around. I did the same thing. Mine is an acrylic box filled with high viscosity silicone fluid and stainless steel shot, with a silicone foam sheet on the bottom. Also put a silicone mat under the LC to help isolate it and keep it in place. Cheers


 
  
 Where can I buy something like this? I want to spend at least a thousand dollars. And, it should have some kind of magical alloy.


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> I'd suspect the OCD level is much higher in this world (including myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You may be right with $3000.00 power cables and what not. One big difference. We are actually playing the music. AND there are a lot more Women around. Some who really like the Guitar Player.


----------



## Viper2005

I am a really big fan of stick-on sorbothane discs. I have them sticked under the feet of my Crimson, and the sorbothane is a really good isolator and has a tacky surface that will cling well to a flat surface. I can now plug and unplug headphones into my Crimson without having to brace it with my other hand to prevent it from moving.


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I'd suspect the OCD level is much higher in this world (including myself  )
> ...




As an old guitar player myself, definitely have a better chance with women with an axe than with sorbothane footers...


----------



## mscott58

zachawry said:


> Where can I buy something like this? I want to spend at least a thousand dollars. And, it should have some kind of magical alloy.




Made it myself for almost nothing! The acrylic box is from The Container Store, the Si fluid was a sample and the shot was from a reloading catalog. 

And the science behind ultra-high viscosity silicone fluid as a dampening agent is well proven and used in all types of industrial products and scientific applications (I used to sell the stuff for GE) so no snake oil. The stainless shot is just to add weight. Nothing magic. 

Cheers


----------



## Peridot

There I was celebrating the fact that I'd found some stuff I needed to buy from Amazon, which allowed me to add the 0.99p rubber feet I wanted for the undercarriage of my LC when it arrives.
  
 Now I need to worry about high viscosity dampening fluid and acrylic boxes and steel shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ... or not


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> Nah, we're fine.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go wash my hands, three times.


 

 Don't forget to touch the faucet 3 times....


----------



## Strife

defbear said:


> The LC fares almost too well with the Master 11. The Master 11 has more Gravitas. It's richer while still being detailed. The LC has more PRAT. It is very rock n roll while being insanely detailed with a huge soundstage. I think if you had a dac-19 and a LC you would be 90 percent there.


 
  
 Hi, in the above quote did you mean the LC + Emotiva Stealth DC-1 against the Master 11 or the LC + Master 11 DAC section vs. Master 11? I'm in the process of picking a DAC for the LC (to drive my HD 650s) and wonder if the Emotiva would be a good alternative to the DAC-19 that you mentioned. Thanks.


----------



## defbear

strife said:


> Hi, in the above quote did you mean the LC + Emotiva Stealth DC-1 against the Master 11 or the LC + Master 11 DAC section vs. Master 11? I'm in the process of picking a DAC for the LC (to drive my HD 650s) and wonder if the Emotiva would be a good alternative to the DAC-19 that you mentioned. Thanks.


In the Title Bout is Emotiva Stealth Dac 1 with Cavalli Liquid Carbon vs Audio-gd Master 11. A strange tag team match. 
I was referring to the LC paired with the dac 1 against the Master 11 combo by itself. I'm not going to be listening to the LC with the Master 11 dac. The Master 11 is gigantic anyway. I mentioned the dac-19 as it seems to have nearly universal approval. It IS single ended but Dr. Alex states single ended Dac's attached to the rca inputs will be converted to balanced internally. But in the owners manual Alex states the very best setup is to go balanced all the way from end to end. The Emotiva has balanced outs. It sounds better than the built in DAC in my Sennheiser hdvd800. It smokes my bifrost uber. It's on sale for $399.00. It has a 'courtesy' amp built in with two 1/8" inputs. It sounds really good with my hd598's. I'm not looking for a better dac to use with the LC.


----------



## reddog

I was bored tonight, so I hooked up the Liquid Carbon to my Yggdrasil and used this combo to power my ETHER. The Ether sounded so nice. The bass was powerful, yet had such control that in never impacted upon the mids. The mids sound sweet, vocalist like Zappa and Kate Bush sound phenomenal. The highs are rock solid and do not fatigue one with annoying sybilance. The soundstage is pretty wide on this Cavalli amp. The level of revealing detail is pretty good, and thus the soundstage is nice and holographic. Thus Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon sounds great through this set up. I am a bit overwhelmed with all of my amps. But this weekend I hope to do a comparison between my Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass.


----------



## musiclvr

Does anyone else have the right most button on the LC (for balanced and single ended selection output) working opposite of what the owners manual states? I just received my new Alpha Dogs with the 4 Pin XLR DUM cable to run the LC in Balanced out mode with. Upon plugging the Alpha Dogs into the LC with the Input Selector button out for balanced output mode of operation (w/the white light showing) I got no sound. I checked my audio chain and pressed the same button in (red light showing) and all of a sudden sound came forth. So my question to all is, is my input button reversed or is the owners manual incorrect? On a side note; it really bothers me that I burned-in my LC, apparently, in SE mode this whole time thinking it was balanced as I didn't have any balanced headphones to test with. I was just following the owners manual to the letter...... Any comments will help before contacting Cavalli Audio about it.


----------



## warrenpchi

buttuglyjeff said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Nah, we're fine.  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go wash my hands, three times.
> ...


 
  
 Dammit!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


reddog said:


> I was bored tonight, so I hooked up the Liquid Carbon to my Yggdrasil and used this combo to power my ETHER. The Ether sounded so nice. The bass was powerful, yet had such control that in never impacted upon the mids. The mids sound sweet, vocalist like Zappa and Kate Bush sound phenomenal. The highs are rock solid and do not fatigue one with annoying sybilance. The soundstage is pretty wide on this Cavalli amp. The level of revealing detail is pretty good, and thus the soundstage is nice and holographic. Thus Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon sounds great through this set up. I am a bit overwhelmed with all of my amps. But this weekend I hope to do a comparison between my Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass.


 
  
 Holy crap, we have like the exact same gear!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Likewise, I am also running an Yggy > Carbon > ETHER setup right now.  I'll probably move the Yggy back to the Glass soon, but I'm not in a rush because the Carbon sounds quite nice (and I'm being a little lazy).  The Crimson that is here will shortly be on it's way to a new home, where is will make someone very happy.


----------



## x RELIC x

The web site says....

*SOLD OUT!!*


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> The web site says....
> 
> *SOLD OUT!!*




It's been sold out for a few days now I think!


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> It's been sold out for a few days now I think!




I thought it was 'contact to order' because the website couldn't cut off at 500. Wasn't sold out yesterday anyway really asleep at the wheel. Part of the only 500 is officially cool anyway.


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> I thought it was 'contact to order' because the website couldn't cut off at 500. Wasn't sold out yesterday anyway. Part of the only 500 is officially cool anyway.




Yup and hopefully this is the only batch!


----------



## hifi808

x relic x said:


> I thought it was 'contact to order' because the website couldn't cut off at 500. Wasn't sold out yesterday anyway. Part of the only 500 is officially cool anyway.


 
  
Umm, somebody posted that they were sold out a couple of days ago.


----------



## x RELIC x

hifi808 said:


> Umm, somebody posted that they were sold out a couple of days ago.




Hahaha, asleep at the wheel I guess! In my world it _just_ sold out, lol! 

Edit: I wasn't really following that thread.... Why so many threads.....


----------



## defbear

cardiiiii said:


> Yup and hopefully this is the only batch!


Now i know your not that selfish. It's cool to be 'in', and you are! All 500 of us are. Mine was of the First Batch. That makes me 'First in'. Ha! Actually the 120th in  But it's too good an amp not to keep in production. Except for Fedex , all the ducks are in a row and the amp will easy to produce as long as parts are accessible. Still people will complain about free money. Someones nose would get out of joint if another batch was sold at a higher price and it might not be worth it. Perhaps better to successfully finish the project and stay a hero.


----------



## Cardiiiii

defbear said:


> Now i know your not that selfish. It's cool to be 'in', and you are! All 500 of us are. Mine was of the First Batch. That makes me 'First in'. Ha! Actually the 120th in  But it's too good an amp not to keep in production. Except for Fedex , all the ducks are in a row and the amp will easy to produce as long as parts are accessible. Still people will complain about free money. Someones nose would get out of joint if another batch was sold at a higher price and it might not be worth it. Perhaps better to successfully finish the project and stay a hero.




Given how good the amp is and at the price point, it was on sale for far too long. Maybe if it sold out in the first month there might have been another batch down the line, but I hope Alex concentrates on the DAC after the portable


----------



## Peridot

musiclvr said:


> Does anyone else have the right most button on the LC (for balanced and single ended selection output) working opposite of what the owners manual states? I just received my new Alpha Dogs with the 4 Pin XLR DUM cable to run the LC in Balanced out mode with. Upon plugging the Alpha Dogs into the LC with the Input Selector button out for balanced output mode of operation (w/the white light showing) I got no sound. I checked my audio chain and pressed the same button in (red light showing) and all of a sudden sound came forth. So my question to all is, is my input button reversed or is the owners manual incorrect? On a side note; it really bothers me that I burned-in my LC, apparently, in SE mode this whole time thinking it was balanced as I didn't have any balanced headphones to test with. I was just following the owners manual to the letter...... Any comments will help before contacting Cavalli Audio about it.




I have read somewhere in one of the LC threads that the manual is incorrect in its description of this button. 

However as this only switches the input between the balanced and SE connections it will not have affected your burn-in. 

Balanced and SE outputs are active at all times irrespective of the switch position.


----------



## pipedreamer

So far, I'm loving the amp. It is way too noisy on the SE output to use with my CIEMs, but on its balanced output it sings. The LC manages to balance being analytical enough to hear all the details, with a sense of musicality and timing that is rare in audio equipment. The phase splitter on the SE input makes the amp so usable with my Hugo. I really can't see myself either wanting or needing to get anything better.
  
 At the moment i'm listening to - 
 Macbook Pro> Rune>Audioquest Jitterbug>Audioquest Cinnamon USB>Chord Hugo>$10 FiiO 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable>LC>Moon Audio Black Dragon cable>modded HD800s
  


 Cheers,
  
 Peter.


----------



## doctorjazz

Muddy depend on the ciem sensitivity...I started using my PFE-232 single ended (no removable cable), into LC, source Pono single ended line out. Sounded really nice, didn't feel like I was missing anything (at least, as much as an audiophile EVER feels that way...  )


----------



## rollinbr

musiclvr said:


> Does anyone else have the right most button on the LC (for balanced and single ended selection output) working opposite of what the owners manual states? I just received my new Alpha Dogs with the 4 Pin XLR DUM cable to run the LC in Balanced out mode with. Upon plugging the Alpha Dogs into the LC with the Input Selector button out for balanced output mode of operation (w/the white light showing) I got no sound. I checked my audio chain and pressed the same button in (red light showing) and all of a sudden sound came forth. So my question to all is, *is my input button reversed or is the owners manual incorrect?* On a side note; it really bothers me that I burned-in my LC, apparently, in SE mode this whole time thinking it was balanced as I didn't have any balanced headphones to test with. I was just following the owners manual to the letter...... Any comments will help before contacting Cavalli Audio about it.


 
 As you have stated above the far right button is used to select between Balanced *input* or SE *input*. There is no button to select between Balanced or SE output. The outputs are always active. The owners manual is correct, and your input button is wired correctly. The way the Liquid Carbon is built if one uses the SE inputs it will take those inputs and create a balanced output signal. 
  
 Item 2 in the operation instructions has a typo. It says to push the leftmost button to turn on the map, should be amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

And, all this time, I've been looking for that DAMN MAP! Was going to complain to Alex!


----------



## PCWar

Guys, did any one from you compare it to the Cypher Labs Duet? From the description they seem very similar, detailed and musical at the same time.


----------



## Stillhart

musiclvr said:


> Does anyone else have the right most button on the LC (for balanced and single ended selection output) working opposite of what the owners manual states? I just received my new Alpha Dogs with the 4 Pin XLR DUM cable to run the LC in Balanced out mode with. Upon plugging the Alpha Dogs into the LC with the Input Selector button out for balanced output mode of operation (w/the white light showing) I got no sound. I checked my audio chain and pressed the same button in (red light showing) and all of a sudden sound came forth. So my question to all is, is my input button reversed or is the owners manual incorrect? On a side note; it really bothers me that I burned-in my LC, apparently, in SE mode this whole time thinking it was balanced as I didn't have any balanced headphones to test with. I was just following the owners manual to the letter...... Any comments will help before contacting Cavalli Audio about it.


 
  
 That button swaps inputs, not outputs.


----------



## musiclvr

peridot said:


> I have read somewhere in one of the LC threads that the manual is incorrect in its description of this button.
> 
> However as this only switches the input between the balanced and SE connections it will not have affected your burn-in.
> 
> Balanced and SE outputs are active at all times irrespective of the switch position.



Thank you @Peridot for your response and clarification as it is appreciated.


----------



## musiclvr

rollinbr said:


> As you have stated above the far right button is used to select between Balanced *input* or SE *input*. There is no button to select between Balanced or SE output. The outputs are always active. The owners manual is correct, and your input button is wired correctly. The way the Liquid Carbon is built if one uses the SE inputs it will take those inputs and create a balanced output signal.
> 
> Item 2 in the operation instructions has a typo. It says to push the leftmost button to turn on the map, should be amp.



I thought the Balanced/Single Ended INPUT button was supposed to be RED for SE and White for Bal. I guess the owners Manual is not completely accurate, that's all. Thank you for @rollinbr for your response.


----------



## bearFNF

musiclvr said:


> I thought the Balanced/Single Ended INPUT button was supposed to be RED for SE and White for Bal. I guess the owners Manual is not completely accurate, that's all. Thank you for @rollinbr for your response.


 
  
 From the manual. It says what you did red is SE and white is balanced (or IN is SE and OUT is balanced).
  
 4) The right pushbutton is the input selector. Out is balanced and in is SE. The LED indicator
 will be white for balanced and red for SE. You can hot switch the input while listening to
 music.
  
 How does that match up with your unit? I don't have mine yet so can not test it...


----------



## musiclvr

bearfnf said:


> From the manual. It says what you did red is SE and white is balanced (or IN is SE and OUT is balanced).
> 
> 4) The right pushbutton is the input selector. Out is balanced and in is SE. The LED indicator
> will be white for balanced and red for SE. You can hot switch the input while listening to
> ...



I had to push my input button IN to turn the LED RED; only then did I get sound from the XLR 4-pin connector. This is opposite of what the manual states. There other two buttons buttons function as the manual states though.


----------



## Stillhart

musiclvr said:


> I had to push my input button IN to turn the LED RED; only then did I get sound from the XLR 4-pin connector. This is opposite of what the manual states. There other two buttons buttons function as the manual states though.


 
  
 The button dictates your INPUT.  If you have no sound from your XLR, you won't have sound from the other outputs either.


----------



## bearFNF

musiclvr said:


> I had to push my input button IN to turn the LED RED; only then did I get sound from the XLR 4-pin connector. This is opposite of what the manual states. There other two buttons buttons function as the manual states though.


The selector only affects the input. The switch only changes from the dual three pin XLR inputs on the back to the SE inputs on the back. It should have no affect on the output. 

Is your source (what is feeding the amp) SE or Balanced? If your source is SE only then it appears to be working the way it was designed to.


----------



## Cardiiiii

pipedreamer said:


> So far, I'm loving the amp. It is way too noisy on the SE output to use with my CIEMs, but on its balanced output it sings. The LC manages to balance being analytical enough to hear all the details, with a sense of musicality and timing that is rare in audio equipment. The phase splitter on the SE input makes the amp so usable with my Hugo. I really can't see myself either wanting or needing to get anything better.
> 
> At the moment i'm listening to -
> Macbook Pro> Rune>Audioquest Jitterbug>Audioquest Cinnamon USB>Chord Hugo>$10 FiiO 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable>LC>Moon Audio Black Dragon cable>modded HD800s
> ...




You're not connecting via RCA? Any particular reason for this?


----------



## Hansotek

Oh. Here it is.


----------



## warrenpchi

pipedreamer said:


> So far, I'm loving the amp. It is way too noisy on the SE output to use with my CIEMs, but on its balanced output it sings.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter.


 
  
 Peter, I know this is going to sound crazy.  But if you ever get a chance to go balanced out into your K10, lemme know what you think.


----------



## mscott58

warrenpchi said:


> Peter, I know this is going to sound crazy.  But if you ever get a chance to go balanced out into your K10, lemme know what you think.


 
 Balanced into the K10's sounds great! No noise (at the low gain setting of course). I have the ALO Tinsel terminated in 2.5mm TRRS and use one of Trevor's Norne Audio 4-pin XLR to 2.5mm TRRS adapters and it works very well. Cheers


----------



## warrenpchi

mscott58 said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Peter, I know this is going to sound crazy.  But if you ever get a chance to go balanced out into your K10, lemme know what you think.
> ...


 
  
 Ah dammit, you spoiled it for him!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Now the secret of there being little-to-no-noise into CIEMs via balanced out is, um, out!
  
 Does anyone want to start a new thread for the purposes of finding the best balanced IEM cables?


----------



## Maconi

reddog said:


> I was bored tonight, so I hooked up the Liquid Carbon to my Yggdrasil and used this combo to power my ETHER. The Ether sounded so nice. The bass was powerful, yet had such control that in never impacted upon the mids. The mids sound sweet, vocalist like Zappa and Kate Bush sound phenomenal. The highs are rock solid and do not fatigue one with annoying sybilance. The soundstage is pretty wide on this Cavalli amp. The level of revealing detail is pretty good, and thus the soundstage is nice and holographic. Thus Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon sounds great through this set up. I am a bit overwhelmed with all of my amps. But this weekend I hope to do a comparison between my Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass.


 
  
 How would you compare the LC to your Ragnarok, both through the Yggdrasil? Obviously the Ragnarok is 3x the price with way more power, but I'm curious as to how the sound compares?


----------



## warrenpchi

maconi said:


> Obviously the Ragnarok is 3x the price with way more power, but I'm curious as to how the sound compares?


 
  
 LOL!


----------



## m usicguy

How would you compare the LC to your Ragnarok, both through the Yggdrasil? Obviously the Ragnarok is 3x the price with way more power, but I'm curious as to how the sound compares? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How about a LC againist a Asgard or a lyr2?


----------



## pekingduck

mscott58 said:


> Balanced into the K10's sounds great! No noise (at the low gain setting of course). I have the ALO Tinsel terminated in 2.5mm TRRS and use one of Trevor's Norne Audio 4-pin XLR to 2.5mm TRRS adapters and it works very well. Cheers


 
  
 Wouldn't it be too loud for the K10 balanced, even at low gain?


----------



## pipedreamer

warrenpchi said:


> Ah dammit, you spoiled it for him!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

@warrenpchi I have a Kobiconn terminated Moon Audio Silver Dragon arriving tomorrow (-:


----------



## pipedreamer

cardiiiii said:


> You're not connecting via RCA? Any particular reason for this?


 

 The 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable is the shortest I have. As the LC SE input shares RCA and 3.5mm connectors, and the Hugo's outputs are all paralleled anyway, I doubt it will affect the sound. I do, however, have some cable coming from Straightwire to make up a very short RCA to RCA cable. As far as i'm concerned, short generally trumps any marginal quality differences in cables.
  
 Next step will be a short USB A to USB Micro. Doubt I'll hear a difference, but it will look neater (-:
  
 Cheers,
  
 Peter.


----------



## reddog

The Liquid Carbon is a great sounding semi portable amp. Its bass is nice and tight, that does not leak into the mids. The mids are smooth and pretty revealing. The highs are spot on. However as nice as the Liquid Carbon is, it still does not beat the Ragnarock. The bass on the Ragnarock has far more revealing and impactfull bass. Furthermore the mids are sweet and lush as well as detailed and so natural sounding. Furthermore the highs are spot on perfect, and the micro detail helps make the music so natural sounding. Furthermore the Schiit Audio house sound is a bit different than the Cavalli house sound. The Liquid Carbon is a great amp, that sounds extraordinary, for its size and price. And if this plunky little amp can sound so fine, it makes me wonder how the Liquid Gold must sound.


----------



## reddog

m usicguy said:


> How would you compare the LC to your Ragnarok, both through the Yggdrasil? Obviously the Ragnarok is 3x the price with way more power, but I'm curious as to how the sound compares?
> 
> How about a LC againist a Asgard or a lyr2?



I think I have written a small comparison on the Asgard 2 and the MJ2 using LISST tubes. If I were to rank my solid state amps it would be: Ragnarock> Liquid Carbon > Lycan> Asgard 2. I just do not like comparing solid-state amps to tube amps, even using the LISST tubes.


----------



## sheldaze

reddog said:


> I was bored tonight, so I hooked up the Liquid Carbon to my Yggdrasil and used this combo to power my ETHER. The Ether sounded so nice. The bass was powerful, yet had such control that in never impacted upon the mids. The mids sound sweet, vocalist like Zappa and Kate Bush sound phenomenal. The highs are rock solid and do not fatigue one with annoying sybilance. The soundstage is pretty wide on this Cavalli amp. The level of revealing detail is pretty good, and thus the soundstage is nice and holographic. Thus *Pink Floyd's Dark Side of The Moon* sounds great through this set up. I am a bit overwhelmed with all of my amps. But this weekend I hope to do a comparison between my Liquid Crimson and Liquid Glass.


 
 This is the reason I bought the Liquid Carbon - when I could barely tear myself away from the demo setup at a Nashville meet (Auralic Vega > Liquid Carbon > HiFiMan HE-1000).
  
 The setup was auditory crack


----------



## AxelCloris

How does the Liquid Carbon compare to the Woo WA5?


----------



## mscott58

pekingduck said:


> Wouldn't it be too loud for the K10 balanced, even at low gain?


 
 Nope, not at all. Cheers


----------



## pippen99

axelcloris said:


> How does the Liquid Carbon compare to the Woo WA5?


 
 I love my LC but the WA5 is an endgame amp.  I heard both at the spring Nashville meet.  Dan Clark brought both to the meet to demo his ETHER phones.  Everything the LC does the WA5 does appreciably better.  My experience with high end amps is limited but the WA 5 is the best thing I have ever heard.  Dan has since had Jack Woo build him a custom WA5 to use as a demo platform.  Now a word of caution.  The WA5 Dan brought to Nashville had every upgrade available and probably more.  Don't know about a stock WA5/LC comparison.


----------



## Stillhart

pippen99 said:


> I love my LC but the WA5 is an endgame amp.  I heard both at the spring Nashville meet.  Dan Clark brought both to the meet to demo his ETHER phones.  Everything the LC does the WA5 does appreciably better.  My experience with high end amps is limited but the WA 5 is the best thing I have ever heard.  Dan has since had Jack Woo build him a custom WA5 to use as a demo platform.  Now a word of caution.  The WA5 Dan brought to Nashville had every upgrade available and probably more.  Don't know about a stock WA5/LC comparison.


 
  
 I believe he was being sarcastic in light of some of the previous questions.


----------



## Hansotek

I'd love to see how this measures up against the Objective 2! Can anyone offer comparisons????


----------



## AxelCloris

hansotek said:


> I'd love to see how this measures up against the Objective 2! Can anyone offer comparisons????


 
  
 Objective2: 4.27" x 3.15" x 1.16"
 Liquid Carbon: 5” x 7" x 1.75”
  
 Liquid Carbon - Bigger


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love to see how this measures up against the Objective 2! Can anyone offer comparisons????
> ...




Perfect! Desk space is really at a premium for me these days.


----------



## grizzlybeast

axelcloris said:


> How does the Liquid Carbon compare to the Woo WA5?



Really... Compared to a 5000 dollar amp?

No fair
:rolleyes:


----------



## coastal1

Any comparisons of the LC (balanced) to the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with the HD-650 or other headphone that pairs great with the BH Crack? I realize some will fairly say any tube amp compared to SS is apples to oranges and balanced/SE furthers the differences, but curious what people prefer.


----------



## Serenitty

coastal1 said:


> Any comparisons of the LC (balanced) to the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with the HD-650 or other headphone that pairs great with the BH Crack? I realize some will fairly say any tube amp compared to SS is apples to oranges and balanced/SE furthers the differences, but curious what people prefer.




I won't compare them, or give a review, because I honestly don't know how to use the 100+ word vocabulary here on head-if to describe how something sounds. Any attempt to use the words I've learned here would convey no information since I've never heard a control sound for each word. 

However, I will say that in using the LC with my T1's, I prefer the LC to my crack. To the point where I sold the crack. This was true SE, and even more so since i went balanced. In full disclosure, I now have Ether C's on order and would not have been able to use the crack anyway. If the C's are as good as I hope in reading all those words I have no reference for, the T1's will be for sale also..


----------



## defbear

My Liquid Carbon sounds Boss man.


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> My Liquid Carbon sounds Boss man.




And if you play Springsteen on it does the Boss sound Boss?


----------



## grizzlybeast

serenitty said:


> I won't compare them, or give a review, because I honestly don't know how to use the 100+ word vocabulary here on head-if to describe how something sounds. Any attempt to use the words I've learned here would convey no information since I've never heard a control sound for each word.
> 
> However, I will say that in using the LC with my T1's, I prefer the LC to my crack. To the point where I sold the crack. This was true SE, and even more so since i went balanced. In full disclosure, I now have Ether C's on order and would not have been able to use the crack anyway. If the C's are as good as I hope in reading all those words I have no reference for, the T1's will be for sale also..




That's high praise. I saw that one in the FS add and drooled. It's drop dead gorgeous copper and wood chassis. But I'm surprised the LC did better on the T1s. Thats even more bizarre.


----------



## pipedreamer

warrenpchi said:


> Ah dammit, you spoiled it for him!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mmmmmm, it's very good. The hum is gone, with just a little hiss remaining at high gains (Waaaay louder than i'd ever actually listen to). Output on the Hugo is dialled down to 'green' which gives good control on the LC. This is the best I've ever heard my K10s. There is so much more to amplification than simply power.
  


 Cheers,
  
 Peter.


----------



## Serenitty

grizzlybeast said:


> That's high praise. I saw that one in the FS add and drooled. It's drop dead gorgeous copper and wood chassis. But I'm surprised the LC did better on the T1s. Thats even more bizarre.


 

 The LC just sounds cleaner, if that's the word I actually want to use...  And that's in comparison to a crack that a guy at a meet tested with iem's for noise and declared to be very quiet. 
  
 I guess I could just say it sounds boss...  101+ words...
  
 I really need a quiet meet with someone who knows what they are talking about who can demonstrate with equipment what all these words actually sound like in terms of what goes in my ears..  Otherwise I'm still just guessing what all of you mean...


----------



## sheldaze

coastal1 said:


> Any comparisons of the LC (balanced) to the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with the HD-650 or other headphone that pairs great with the BH Crack? I realize some will fairly say any tube amp compared to SS is apples to oranges and balanced/SE furthers the differences, but curious what people prefer.


 
 Both are highly engaging, enjoyable experiences with the Sennheiser HD-650. Though as you said, they are definitely apples to oranges.
  
 I thought for a moment, after listening to the Crack and returning to the Carbon, that something was lacking in Carbon - I think now the Carbon is just more subtle "magic" versus the obvious sound change going to the Crack sound. I don't own the Crack, so I can only compare at meets. I might be able again to compare in February, depending on what setups people bring to the next meet. At least two local people have the Crack and now two people will have the Carbon.


----------



## coastal1

Thanks for the feedback on Crack vs. LC. I'll make my own decision soon enough, just biding my time for now.


----------



## ejong7

That hum on the LC when using my Roxannes is quite noticeable. Enough for me to always want to reach for my full size cans after each song. I don't have any balance cables on hand but as seen on the posts above it solves the trick so for anybody who got the LC to use with their IEMs you really have to get some balanced cables to pair with them.
  
 And I don't know how many hours exactly to fully break them in but I don't think it changed after it passed around 150-200 hours for me. Unless full break in is at like 10000 hours or something(fairy dust sprinkled around).


----------



## doctorjazz

Again, I've been using the LC single ended to listen to PFE-232's, not a ciem, but well regarded. I don't get any hum, been thinking it might work better than my HE-1000 using a balanced cable. Seems to make the 232 sing...with the HEK, I do note a drop off in performance from my MicroZOTL2 (though it still sounds good). Preliminary thoughts...


----------



## warrenpchi

Yeah, noise via CIEMs will vary depending on a variety of factors (sensitivity, our own ears, etc.).  But I can tell you guys that early on, a bunch of us went back and forth with Alex trying to get the Carbon as quiet as possible.  I don't remember what every one else used, but I tried it out with a UERM, K10C, Layla (universal), and a bunch of other stuff.  I believe Jude used a FitEar MH334.  It's not absolutely dead quiet, but quite a bit of attention was given to the issue of IEM/CIEM noise, while also trying to not sacrifice power.  In fact, the entire reason why there is both 1X and 3X gain came from the effort to make the Carbon more versatile.
  
  


pipedreamer said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Ah dammit, you spoiled it for him!
> ...


 

 Shhh, let's keep that secret between us m'kay?


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, I used my roxannes (15 Ohm, 119 dB@1mW) and the prototypes noise floor was very noticeable, the production is better but still there. Still looking for a balanced cable for my Roxannes.
  
 The PFE 232 is 47 Ohm and 104-109 dB depending on filter used (Gray filter: 109 dBSPL/mW, 1 kHz, Black filter: 107 dBSPL/mW, 1 kHz, Green filter: 104 dBSPL/mW, 1 kHz) which would help it not be as sensitive to the noise.


----------



## conquerator2

ZOTL > LC.
 We get it. That's like the 6th time I am seeing that post man


----------



## doctorjazz




----------



## x RELIC x

ejong7 said:


> That hum on the LC when using my Roxannes is quite noticeable. Enough for me to always want to reach for my full size cans after each song. I don't have any balance cables on hand but as seen on the posts above it solves the trick so for anybody who got the LC to use with their IEMs you really have to get some balanced cables to pair with them.
> 
> And I don't know how many hours exactly to fully break them in but I don't think it changed after it passed around 150-200 hours for me. Unless full break in is at like 10000 hours or something(fairy dust sprinkled around).




Hum or hiss? If it's a hum you might be picking up a ground loop. I hear this with my HA-1 and JH Angie but not with full size cans.


----------



## ejong7

x relic x said:


> Hum or hiss? If it's a hum you might be picking up a ground loop. I hear this with my HA-1 and JH Angie but not with full size cans.


 

 Definitely a hum. Actually I don't think theres a hiss.


----------



## mscott58

One of the main reasons for going balanced is for common mode noise rejection, so I'd recommend based on that (and my own experience as well as Alex's input) that if you want the lowest possible noise floor then get a balanced cable for your IEMs/CIEMs. There are many great makers of after-market cable makers that offer balanced versions of their IEM cables, including DHC, Norne, ALO, Moon Audio and others. Cheers


----------



## Shini44

at last finished reading most of the impressions, can't wait for my amp to be here <3
  
 i hope it will meet my high expectation, but from the feedback here i can tell its the right amp for me, lush mids and engaging in the same time with no lack in the bass/treble just the sound sig i've been looking for ages <3 
  
 as Chord Hugo user who love CIEMs and LCD-2, i've been looking for the right amp since a year and a half... portaphile 627, pico power and many amps near this price, but nothing were able to top the hugo's amp and provide good warm lush mids even if the CIEM have it.
  
 the chord hugo onwers on the thread shared their impressions with me, they are all positive!! man can't wait to try it 
  
 will post my initial impression and final impression later on, once i get my amp, maybe in a week and a half


----------



## Cardiiiii

shini44 said:


> at last finished reading most of the impressions, can't wait for my amp to be here <3
> 
> i hope it will meet my high expectation, but from the feedback here i can tell its the right amp for me, lush mids and engaging in the same time with no lack in the bass/treble just the sound sig i've been looking for ages <3
> 
> ...




Same set up and waiting just like you!


----------



## drhoooon

Looking for a unit if anyone wants to sell theirs


----------



## Stillhart

drhoooon said:


> Looking for a unit if anyone wants to sell theirs


 
  
 And so it begins!


----------



## Youth

drhoooon said:


> Looking for a unit if anyone wants to sell theirs


 
  
 Good luck with that


----------



## rcoleman1

drhoooon said:


> Looking for a unit if anyone wants to sell theirs


 

 Expecting delivery of mine Friday...decided not to keep it. Going with an Amp/DAC. Taking offers. PM me


----------



## Serenitty

rcoleman1 said:


> Expecting delivery of mine Friday...decided not to keep it. Going with an Amp/DAC. Taking offers. PM me


 

 I'd listen to it before making that decision, but that's just my opinion...


----------



## rocketron

X2


----------



## sling5s

X3


----------



## singleended58

serenitty said:


> I'd listen to it before making that decision, but that's just my opinion...




That is true. The more I am listening to LC with HD600 (source is iPhone 4s and RWA 5.5G iPod via ALO copper) the more I love its SQ every day after it went through >150 hours burn-in time.


----------



## x RELIC x

The eagle has landed! Obligatory unboxing pics...










First impressions of the physical unit are what I expected except for the finish. It feels like a rough powder finish on the body but the metal front and back plates are smooth. Looks nice in person.


----------



## santacore

drhoooon said:


> Looking for a unit if anyone wants to sell theirs


 

 Hmmm, there is a chance I might sell mine. It's a fantastic amp, but I slightly prefer my Bryston. This setup is for my bed side rig, so I'm stuck with using my TH900's. With those phones the Bryston just seems to have a touch better control of those particular phones. Honestly, if I didn't compare them side by side, I could easily be happy with either. Neither disappoints or leaves me wanting for much.


----------



## Maconi

maconi said:


> The website says that the LC's THD is 0.004 @ 4VRMS. Does that mean that it's 0.001 @ 1VRMS or is it not that simple? If not, what's the THD @ 1VRMS then?


 
  
 Posting this question here since the other thread seems to be solely focused on shipping updates right now.


----------



## aamefford

Saw one in fs thread yesterday. $680. I guess tax and shipping and PayPal might get you there.

EDIT - looks like Canadian exchange rate and import tax. Guy was in pretty deep. From his perspective, $680 is a bargain.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

x relic x said:


> The eagle has landed! Obligatory unboxing pics...


 
  
 Impressions with Mojo as DAC please...


----------



## mscott58

vhsownsbeta said:


> Impressions with Mojo as DAC please...




Really good combo Paul! Have my Mojo outputting into the SE 3.5mm input on the LC and then listening balanced through my LCD-3's and K10's. The LC takes the clarity, resolution and musicality of the Mojo and gives it more depth, impact and is a joy to listen to. Not as warm and vinyl-like as putting the Mojo through the ALO CDM, but that's purely a personal taste thing and lines up along classical SS vs. tube lines. YMMV of course, but all good options. Cheers


----------



## vhsownsbeta

mscott58 said:


> Really good combo Paul! Have my Mojo outputting into the SE 3.5mm input on the LC and then listening balanced through my LCD-3's and K10's. The LC takes the clarity, resolution and musicality of the Mojo and gives it more depth, impact and is a joy to listen to. Not as warm and vinyl-like as putting the Mojo through the ALO CDM, but that's purely a personal taste thing and lines up along classical SS vs. tube lines. YMMV of course, but all good options. Cheers


 

 Thanks Michael. Are you utilising the quasi line-out at 3v with the LC or dialling down?


----------



## mscott58

vhsownsbeta said:


> Thanks Michael. Are you utilising the quasi line-out at 3v with the LC or dialling down?




Line out.


----------



## Dave74

aamefford said:


> Saw one in fs thread yesterday. $680. I guess tax and shipping and PayPal might get you there.
> 
> EDIT - looks like Canadian exchange rate and import tax. Guy was in pretty deep. From his perspective, $680 is a bargain.


 
 With shipping my order came out to $682.50 U.S., this is before the exchange rate.  Shipping to Canada is more expensive, if we had a $20 shipping option I probably would have chosen it, but  I think the cheapest shipping option was around $70  so I figured I might as well go with the fastest option.  After exchange rate I was around $930.  It will probably be over $1000 CND after taxes.


----------



## warrenpchi

vhsownsbeta said:


> x relic x said:
> 
> 
> > The eagle has landed! Obligatory unboxing pics...
> ...


 

@x RELIC x, impressions with anything please...


----------



## x RELIC x

vhsownsbeta said:


> Impressions with Mojo as DAC please...




That's like lemon juice on a paper cut... :blink:

I won't get to test the Mojo with the Liquid Carbon until mid Janurary when I expect it to come back from the Canadian tour. Right now it's about 3,337 Km away.


----------



## doctorjazz

Hmmm, not to rub more lemon juice in your wound, but I'd love to get on a Mojo tour. Can that still me done?


----------



## x RELIC x

doctorjazz said:


> Hmmm, not to rub more lemon juice in your wound, but I'd love to get on a Mojo tour. Can that still me done?




There are six of us globally heading up tours and I'm pretty sure they're all filled by now. Wish you could have a chance to audition it.


----------



## x RELIC x

warrenpchi said:


> @x RELIC x
> , impressions with anything please...




Here's the short story right out of the box..... I've been listening for 9 hours, only taking a break to eat or use the facilities.... It's 3:20 here and I need to go to sleep... 'Nuf said.


Long story....


This little amp sounds very good to me, even without burn in. The word I keep thinking is LAYERS, LAYERS, LAYERS!! There is a fantastic transparency to the Liquid Carbon that I haven't heard before. Well, yes I have, in the new version of the ALO Rx but that tiny amp can only drive IEMs. With the ETHER C balanced from the Liquid Carbon I'm getting more texture, more musicality, more spaciousness than I hear from the HA-1 balanced. The difference isn't HUGE, but it's clearly noticeable to me. Both amps are neutral and transparent but the Liquid Carbon takes everything the HA-1's amp can do well and improves on it.

Remarkable sound from such a small amp. Dr. Cavalli has really created a special product here, made all the more special by its size. The bonus is now I can have a top tier amp being fed from a DAP in my living room when it's not hooked up to the DAC-19. I had to move the HA-1 to my office because the wife wanted it out. Not a problem with the size of the Liquid Carbon. 

I listened to the HA-1 DAC balanced out to the Liquid Carbon as well as the DAC-19 SE to the Liquid Carbon. I was groovin' much more with the DAC-19 than the HA-1 DAC balanced out feeding the Liquid Carbon. I feel the DAC-19 and Liquid Carbon pairing is really top notch (shoutout to Stillhart) and the synergy is amazing. I used to have the DAC-19 feed the HA-1 amp section driving my headphones and I'm glad to say the Liquid Carbon is much more engaging to me fed by the DAC-19 than the HA-1 balanced DAC is. All in all quite pleased with it. The only negative is now I want to try Dr. Cavalli's higher end amps. You can also bet I'll be in on the portable as well!! 

Some pics...



X5 as a transport.


DAC-19 and HA-1 connected.


Red LED=SE


WHite LED=Balanced


Of course these are my very initial impressions, but I like what I hear! I need to plug in my different headphones to get an overall better picture of the Liquid Carbon, but with the ETHER C it's a fine combination and there is great synergy. If anything improves with burn-in ill be a happy camper. 



Edit: With the ETHER C I only needed to have the volume around 9 o'clock on low gain. There's plenty of juice available!


----------



## doctorjazz

x relic x said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm, not to rub more lemon juice in your wound, but I'd love to get on a Mojo tour. Can that still me done?
> ...





x relic x said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm, not to rub more lemon juice in your wound, but I'd love to get on a Mojo tour. Can that still me done?
> ...




Me too...got a chance to listen to it quickly at the Connecticut meet, sounded sweet, but it was very short, noisy show conditions, etc, really didn't have quality listening time. Oh well, thanks

(just did a quick search, yup, tours filled from what I see)


----------



## MattTCG

x relic x said:


> Here's the short story right out of the box..... I've been listening for 9 hours, only taking a break to eat or use the facilities.... It's 3:20 here and I need to go to sleep... 'Nuf said.
> 
> 
> Long story....
> ...


 
  
 Was hoping for more impressions with Ether C. I will have my pair back from repair this afternoon. So I suppose I can give impressions to myself.


----------



## x RELIC x

matttcg said:


> Was hoping for more impressions with Ether C. I will have my pair back from repair this afternoon. So I suppose I can give impressions to myself. :blink:




Pretty tired right now. I'll add some more impressions soon but need to get more acquainted with the pair. 

What was the repair for?


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> snip
> 
> I listened to the HA-1 DAC balanced out to the Liquid Carbon as well as the DAC-19 SE to the Liquid Carbon. I was groovin' much more with the DAC-19 than the HA-1 DAC balanced out feeding the Liquid Carbon. I feel the DAC-19 and Liquid Carbon pairing is really top notch (shoutout to @Stillhart) and the synergy is amazing. I used to have the DAC-19 feed the HA-1 amp section driving my headphones and I'm glad to say the Liquid Carbon is much more engaging to me fed by the DAC-19 than the HA-1 balanced DAC is. All in all quite pleased with it. The only negative is now I want to try Dr. Cavalli's higher end amps. You can also bet I'll be in on the portable as well!!
> 
> snip


 
  
 What can I say, turns out I'm not completely full of **** all the time.  Glad you'er enjoying it!  And trust me, I had the same problem with Cavalli and ended up with a Liquid Crimson.  (Ow, my wallet!)  Once it recovers, the Ether C is next on my list actually.  Good times ahead!


----------



## atomicbob

Liquid Carbon technical measurements now available here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/791505/cavalli-liquid-carbon-technical-measurements#post_12169058


----------



## Mr Rick

atomicbob said:


> Liquid Carbon technical measurements now available here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/791505/cavalli-liquid-carbon-technical-measurements#post_12169058


 
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks pretty much like a wire with gain.


----------



## x RELIC x

mr rick said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks pretty much like a wire with gain.:wink_face:




Um.. :tongue_smile:


----------



## warrenpchi

atomicbob said:


> Liquid Carbon technical measurements now available here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/791505/cavalli-liquid-carbon-technical-measurements#post_12169058




Achievement Unlocked: Five Liquid Carbon Threads!


----------



## doctorjazz

Only five? Go guys, that's NOTHING!!!!


----------



## reddog

doctorjazz said:


> Only five? Go guys, that's NOTHING!!!!



I am subscribed to four threads. I need a list of all the threads, to make sure I am properly subscribed.


----------



## Stillhart

reddog said:


> I am subscribed to four threads. I need a list of all the threads, to make sure I am properly subscribed.


 
  
 DAC thread got locked, so 4 active threads.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

reddog said:


> I am subscribed to four threads. I need a list of all the threads, to make sure I am properly subscribed.


 

 We should have a thread titled "All the Liquid Carbon Threads"......


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry if I've missed it, impressions of the LC with hd800?


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> Sorry if I've missed it, impressions of the LC with hd800?


 
  
 In a nutshell:  I don't usually like the HD800.  With the LC+DAC-19, I was pleasantly surprised.  Now I get why people like that headphone.  @Evshrug experienced something similar.


----------



## defbear

matttcg said:


> Sorry if I've missed it, impressions of the LC with hd800?


I think I've posted several places (I get excited) how much I am enjoying my hd800's and LC with my Emotiva Dac 1. Add one deadmau5 and you are all set.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Did anyone mention @jude 's 1 word impression when the Liquid Carbon was paired with the Ayre Acoustics Codex?
  
 ......"Sick!"


----------



## Shini44

stillhart said:


> In a nutshell:  I don't usually like the HD800.  With the LC+DAC-19, I was pleasantly surprised.  Now I get why people like that headphone.  @Evshrug experienced something similar.


 
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> Did anyone mention @jude 's 1 word impression when the Liquid Carbon was paired with the Ayre Acoustics Codex?
> 
> ......"Sick!"


 
  
  
 the LC on high gain got enough power to drive the HD800??? O-o;  or just make it sound good even if its lacking the power ??


----------



## Stillhart

shini44 said:


> the LC on high gain got enough power to drive the HD800??? O-o;  or just make it sound good even if its lacking the power ??


 
 Well I haven't heard the HD800 on a DNA Stratus or anything, but this sounded pretty good.  As an example, when I tried them with the GMB/MJ2 stack at the Schiit Show, I couldn't wear them for more than about 15 seconds.  Not sure if this helps, but yeah.


----------



## Hansotek

shini44 said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > In a nutshell:  I don't usually like the HD800.  With the LC+DAC-19, I was pleasantly surprised.  Now I get why people like that headphone.  @Evshrug
> ...




Oh, it has plenty of power. I need to spend more time with it and a non-Anax-modded HD800 to give any sort of meaningful impressions... But it drives them quite well, in my experience.


----------



## Shini44

hansotek said:


> Oh, it has plenty of power. I need to spend more time with it and a non-Anax-modded HD800 to give any sort of meaningful impressions... But it drives them quite well, in my experience.


 
 i heard that cavali audio offer better warm mids and nicer on the female vocals when compared to audio gd
  
 even if you didn't try to the audio-gd, how do you find the mids so far and the female vocals on this amp? 
  
  
  
 man waiting for me to get shipped :' )


----------



## defbear

shini44 said:


> the LC on high gain got enough power to drive the HD800??? O-o;  or just make it sound good even if its lacking the power ??


 

 I listen to the hd800's on low power with the vol at 11 o'clock. You can listen to the hd800's with the LC on high power which May increase the bass response but then I can't get the amp up much past 9 o'clock. The Liquid Carbon can drive the hd800's with Great Authority.


----------



## dpump

x relic x said:


> Um..





> Loved this!


----------



## Storytime

Hi, all. Newbie here.
  
 I wanted to pass along some additional burn-in advice I received from Dr. Cavalli.
  
 I had been holding off burning in my LC after I read his post from 11/17/15: “It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn-in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.”
  
 I only had SE headphones at the time, so I waited. Then when I was considering balanced HD 650s to pair with the Carbon, I began worrying about whether a balanced SOURCE was also necessary for proper burn-in. So I sent Dr. Cavalli a quick e-mail. (I also wanted to know how loud I should run the amp during this process.) I thought you might want to read his reply:
  
 “You can burn in from either input and the result should be the same. I normally suggest about 11 o’clock for most of the sources people have. It isn’t necessary to blast the amp for 150 hours, just running it a normal listening levels is enough.”
  
 That was all I needed to hear: My 650s should arrive Saturday (along with a cheap balanced cable and, of course, a power cord and some Sorbothane feet.) Then let the burn-in begin! I’ll report back soon with my impressions.


----------



## sujitsky

Just touched the LC while it is burning in.... It does run quite warm


----------



## x RELIC x

sujitsky said:


> Just touched the LC while it is burning in.... It does run quite warm




Yup. I'd say about 3/4 as warm as the Oppo HA-1.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Yup. I'd say about 3/4 as warm as the Oppo HA-1.




And about 1/2 as warm as the CDM!


----------



## chowmein83

Hey all,
  
 I just received my Liquid Carbon about two days ago (helps to be located in California - it only took one day of shipping to get here), and I wanted to share some first impressions.
  
 To begin, I've had it playing for about 30 hours so far. At this point, I've paired it up with my NuForce UDH-100 (has an AKM 4390 DAC chip) and my FiiO E10K (TI PCM5102 DAC chip) through each of their line-outs. Through the balanced mode, I've listened to my Hifiman HE-400i, HE-1000, and Sennheiser HD700. Through the single ended out, I've listened to my self-modded Fostex T50RP and my Etymotic ER4PT (with a P-to-S converter that transforms it into the ER4S).
  
 Some notes:
  
 - Runs kind of warm - even in cold winter weather. If it runs this warm now, oh boy I can't wait to see how hot it will get during California summers.
  
*-* The balanced out is really powerful. Even when listening to the HE1000 I don't think I've need to crank the volume knob beyond 12 o'clock. (Although I am a somewhat quiet listener.)
  
*-* Drives every headphone I own with absolute authority, with perhaps the exception of the HE1000 - and that's only because I've heard the HE1000 on extremely expensive setups, like with Hifiman's crazy tube headphone and speaker amp (EF-1000).
  
*-* Single-ended headphone out is no slouch (drove my modded T50RP, which is far from being the most efficient thing, pretty well.) And you get the basic qualities of the LC. But I think it's also far from what the amp is fully capable of, though I will have to do further testing on some of my headphones to confirm this.
  
 - Single-ended out is pretty clean in terms of not having noise. At least, I couldn't any humming or anything with my ER4PT IEMs plugged in, with the music paused and the volume knob turned all the way to max on 1x gain.
  
*-* The bass really kicks on this amp. That was the first thing I noticed when listening to my balanced headphones. Heck, I didn't even know the HD700 was capable of that kind of bass.
  
*-* Even with the strong bass, I still feel that the LC overall has a neutral sound signature. Bass is strong, but mids are still very prominent and the treble doesn't sound rolled off to me. It won't transform any headphone into something different (for example, it didn't change my ER4PT into anything close to a bass monster)
  
*-* Really clean sounding, really transparent amp. I don't know what kind of magic Alex Cavalli has done here, but somehow the amp has even made my HD700 more enjoyable and less annoying to listen to. Sure, the HD700 has treble peaks, but they are only annoying in that they are present and not that those peaks also sound harsh, if I'm making any sense here.
  
*-* On the topic of transparency, if different DACs sound different, it will show up fairly obviously on the LC.
  
*-* The soundstage is really a highlight on the LC. Fairly wide soundstage, but what's really impressive is the depth. Extremely deep soundstage, but it doesn't sound incoherent or at odds with the width.
  
 - Separation, imaging (distinguishing sounds from left to right), and layering (distinguishing sounds closer and further away) are also things that really impressed me. The really black background allows sounds to become ridiculously easy to distinguish from each other without sounding incoherent. This is both in terms of separation and imaging. Seriously, the amp made all the difference with my 400i - I honestly never knew that it could image and layer that well. Same with the HD700 - the LC gives it such a 3D soundstage that I was seriously in awe for almost all of the music I listened to.
  
 In summary, I really like this amp. Absolutely worth every cent of the $600 I paid for it. And it's probably worth more than that.
  
 Great job Alex!


----------



## Currawong

I'm glad to see that it wasn't just jet-lag causing me to be impressed with the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Shini44

@chowmein83  Thanks for the really really good impressions.


----------



## jarnopp

Posted this in the other thread, but that seems to be mostly about shipping, so:

Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good as is now!


----------



## Hansotek

shini44 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, it has plenty of power. I need to spend more time with it and a non-Anax-modded HD800 to give any sort of meaningful impressions... But it drives them quite well, in my experience.
> ...



Mine is still on the way. I spent some time with the prepro version and the HD800, but at this point, it's been way too long to offer detailed impressions on any aspect. I remember it was smoother, sweeter and had better control with the HD800 than most amps... Especially solid states under $1k.


----------



## Stillhart

jarnopp said:


> Posted this in the other thread, but that seems to be mostly about shipping, so:
> 
> Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good as is now!


 
  
 No, you shouldn't be getting that.  I'd recommend emailing Dr. Cavalli about it.


----------



## jamato8

jarnopp said:


> Posted this in the other thread, but that seems to be mostly about shipping, so:
> 
> Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good as is now!


 

 Hopefully they are doing some good QC of the pot. It could be something else though.


----------



## jarnopp

jamato8 said:


> Hopefully they are doing some good QC of the pot. It could be something else though.




Thanks, guys, that's what I thought. I'm pretty sure it's the pot, but will email Alex. Probably keep it through burn in and the new year to listen if possible, then ship it over if he's ok with that. Just wanted to verify I'm not being too picky (but never had that before with an amp or preamp).


----------



## Shini44

hansotek said:


> Mine is still on the way. I spent some time with the prepro version and the HD800, but at this point, it's been way too long to offer detailed impressions on any aspect. I remember it was smoother, sweeter and had better control with the HD800 than most amps... Especially solid states under $1k.


 
 but is it so worth me buying/adding HD800 to the collection? i use CIEMs and LCD-2 Fazor. 

 i love the LCD2's mids a lot , if the amp already got nice mids and hint of warmth, then i hope i will love the HD800 later.


----------



## Stillhart

shini44 said:


> but is it so worth me buying/adding HD800 to the collection? i use CIEMs and LCD-2 Fazor.
> 
> i love the LCD2's mids a lot , if the amp already got nice mids and hint of warmth, then i hope i will love the HD800 later.


 
  
 There are plenty of awesome headphones in that price range that are worth adding to the collection and sound good on the LC:  HD800, Ether, Ether C, Dharma, Edition X, LCD-X, etc.  I'd suggest picking the one that suits your preferences best.  The amp is pretty transparent so don't expect it to make a headphone sound like anything but itself.  The HD800 is still going to be bright and analytical, it just won't be overly bright like it can be with a bad pairing.


----------



## conquerator2

shini44 said:


> i heard that cavali audio offer better warm mids and nicer on the female vocals when compared to audio gd
> 
> even if you didn't try to the audio-gd, how do you find the mids so far and the female vocals on this amp?
> 
> ...


 
 I'll be getting the LC by New Year's and I'll be able to chime on that with my audio-gd SA31 sitting next to me. That should be one of a-gd's warmer offerings :}


----------



## conquerator2

chowmein83 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I just received my Liquid Carbon about two days ago (helps to be located in California - it only took one day of shipping to get here), and I wanted to share some first impressions.
> 
> ...


 
 Amazing impressions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Could you comment a bit more on how it sounds with the HE1000s?
 Thank you :3


----------



## Hansotek

shini44 said:


> but is it so worth me buying/adding HD800 to the collection? i use CIEMs and LCD-2 Fazor.
> 
> i love the LCD2's mids a lot , if the amp already got nice mids and hint of warmth, then i hope i will love the HD800 later.


 


stillhart said:


> There are plenty of awesome headphones in that price range that are worth adding to the collection and sound good on the LC:  HD800, Ether, Ether C, Dharma, Edition X, LCD-X, etc.  I'd suggest picking the one that suits your preferences best.  The amp is pretty transparent so don't expect it to make a headphone sound like anything but itself.  The HD800 is still going to be bright and analytical, it just won't be overly bright like it can be with a bad pairing.


 
  
 Yeah, I mean that's really up to you. I found it very good for driving the HD800 and I'm looking forward to spending more time with it. @Stillhart makes a very good point here - there is a ton of competition in the $1,500 price bracket right now. Really, you have a stellar option of every flavor right now, and they pretty much all pair well with the LC.
  
 If you want some more in-depth impressions of the HD800/LC pairing, I will undoubtedly be posting a bunch of impressions in a couple of weeks once the amp arrives and gets a little burn-in time.


----------



## Shini44

hansotek said:


> Yeah, I mean that's really up to you. I found it very good for driving the HD800 and I'm looking forward to spending more time with it. @Stillhart makes a very good point here - there is a ton of competition in the $1,500 price bracket right now. Really, you have a stellar option of every flavor right now, and they pretty much all pair well with the LC.
> 
> If you want some more in-depth impressions of the HD800/LC pairing, I will undoubtedly be posting a bunch of impressions in a couple of weeks once the amp arrives and gets a little burn-in time.


 
 Thanks in advance


----------



## swspiers

My turn...
  
 I took delivery about 30 minutes ago.  I thanked the Fedex driver profusely and sincerely for working late to get my and my neighborhoods' packages to us. He probably has family he could be with, and he's probably working his butt off to make us all at least content. Nice guy, and in a hurry...
  
 I let it warm up, and it took 10 minutes to feel it.  
  
 As I have read, I am very surprised at how light it is, especially compared to the solid block of aluminum that is my Burson.
  
 One thing to note: I've moved like 3 times since July, and I cannot find my balanced Pyst cables, so I have SE Pyst coming out of the Benchmark.  I have a  Norn Solv X balanced cable for my Alpha Primes.  Only 1 song so far, "Routine" off of Steve Wilson's _Hand.Cannot.Erase._
  
 First, and I mean FIRST impression: wow, that's so smooth, so clear, so pure.  Liquid indeed!
  
 So, I officially turn in my Objectivist card.  That perspective has taken a serious pounding over the past 3 months, and this is the final straw. The micro detail, the depth and width of the soundstage, the absolute clarity and joy of the recording.  I'll do a head-to-head with the Burson, but running SE will seriously throttle the LC. I predict in balanced mode: no contest.  Too much power under that hood, especially once I get the full voltage out of the Benchmark with XLR's.
  
 To all you still waiting- yeah, it's probably worth it!  Now I'm going to go disappear for a few hours...


----------



## AladdinSane

My current amp is the Burson as well. Can't wait to compare SE to SE then experiment with my first balanced connection. I'm not suffering so I'm patiently waiting for arrival of the LC.


----------



## Stillhart

swspiers said:


> My turn...
> 
> I took delivery about 30 minutes ago.  I thanked the Fedex driver profusely and sincerely for working late to get my and my neighborhoods' packages to us. He probably has family he could be with, and he's probably working his butt off to make us all at least content. Nice guy, and in a hurry...
> 
> ...


 
  
 As long as you're running balanced out, which it sounds like you are, you're losing little if anything by using SE in.


----------



## musiclvr

I'm loving this pairing


----------



## swspiers

stillhart said:


> As long as you're running balanced out, which it sounds like you are, you're losing little if anything by using SE in.


 
 True.  I'm not expecting a huge difference.  But the balanced should be a hotter signal, once I verify that the attenuators are at 0 dB.  The specs in the manual don't list the balanced out voltage, but they do list the SE voltage out at 2vRMS. This should affect volume, if nothing else. I'm assuming balanced out is around 4 volts.
  
 Besides...it's balanced!  I need to at least try it that way


----------



## x RELIC x

swspiers said:


> True.  I'm not expecting a huge difference.  But the balanced should be a hotter signal, once I verify that the attenuators are at 0 dB.  The specs in the manual don't list the balanced out voltage, but they do list the SE voltage out at 2vRMS. This should affect volume, if nothing else. I'm assuming balanced out is around 4 volts.
> 
> Besides...it's balanced!  I need to at least try it that way




Looking forward to what you hear but I didn't hear any volume change between SE and balanced.

I posted this in the other thread:




x relic x said:


> Just confirmed that the DAC-19's SE 2.5V output to the Liquid Carbon's SE input is the exact same volume as the HA-1's 4.6V balanced XLR output to the Liquid Carbon's balanced input listening to the Liquid Carbon's balanced output to my ETHER C. What sorcery is this? The wonderful phase splitter?
> 
> Set your phase(rs) on stun!! :eek:


----------



## sujitsky

So... What are people using to give the Liquid Carbon... It's legs  

Literally


----------



## immtbiker

Finally received my Carbon back from the repair center this week, and it's worse!
  
 This amp is not only exhibiting the same problem, but now I am getting much more aggressive distortion in both channels (not just the left), and with *all *of my headphones, not just the Orthos. It sounded ok when I first started running it last night, but when I got home this evening (after running it for 20 hours straight), the distortion is really bad! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 It doesn't matter how I am running it. Balanced out of my Emotiva DC-1, or directly out of my AK240, or iPhone 5C through the single-ended inputs. I tried my B&W P7s, HD800s, HE1000's….it doesn't matter. I also ran it directly out of my Meridian G08 and Esoteric DV-50 without a DAC. I used different power cords and different outlet in my home on different circuit breakers.


----------



## yage

immtbiker said:


> Finally received my Carbon back from the repair center this week, and it's worse!
> 
> This amp is not only exhibiting the same problem, but now I am getting much more aggressive distortion in both channels (not just the left), and with *all *of my headphones, not just the Orthos. It sounded ok when I first started running it last night, but when I got home this evening (after running it for 20 hours straight), the distortion is really bad!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ugh, that's unfortunate. I'm going to receive mine this coming week. Hoping that corners weren't cut just to ship amps out "on time."


----------



## Shini44

immtbiker said:


> Finally received my Carbon back from the repair center this week, and it's worse!
> 
> This amp is not only exhibiting the same problem, but now I am getting much more aggressive distortion in both channels (not just the left), and with *all *of my headphones, not just the Orthos. It sounded ok when I first started running it last night, but when I got home this evening (after running it for 20 hours straight), the distortion is really bad!
> 
> ...


 
 hope they offer you a new unit man :/ this is not cool at all.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sucks, sorry, really frustrating (been there with other gear). Back to the shop.


----------



## sheldaze

immtbiker said:


> Finally received my Carbon back from the repair center this week, and it's worse!
> 
> This amp is not only exhibiting the same problem, but now I am getting much more aggressive distortion in both channels (not just the left), and with *all *of my headphones, not just the Orthos. It sounded ok when I first started running it last night, but when I got home this evening (after running it for 20 hours straight), the distortion is really bad!
> 
> ...


 
 I'm curious - what did the repair center state was the issue? And what fixes were applied?


----------



## AxelCloris

sujitsky said:


> So... What are people using to give the Liquid Carbon... It's legs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm currently using these cheap anti-vibration pads from Amazon. They're certainly bulky and unattractive, but they're what I had on hand.


----------



## doctorjazz

Won't sore high on the old WAF scale (Wife Acceptance Factor), that's for sure!


----------



## musiclvr

I found this pic in the wild. The owner said they were by Dayton Audio. They look sexy!!!


----------



## Youth

musiclvr said:


> I found this pic in the wild. The owner said they were by Dayton Audio. They look sexy!!!


 
  
 Snake oil at it's finest.


----------



## aamefford

youth said:


> Snake oil at it's finest.



Sometimes I think it is more jewelry and less snake oil. I'd buy them as jewelry for my LC if they were 1/2 to 1/3 the size. I would not expect sonic improvements.


----------



## sheldaze

I was also thinking of some rubber feet - something to keep it from sliding around.
 I found an 8-pack of cabinet feet for $3.34, shipping included!


----------



## Youth

aamefford said:


> Sometimes I think it is more jewelry and less snake oil. I'd buy them as jewelry for my LC if they were 1/2 to 1/3 the size. I would not expect sonic improvements.


 
  
 That's another story then. But I've seen the price on some of these and they're not cheap.


----------



## aamefford

sheldaze said:


> I was also thinking of some rubber feet - something to keep it from sliding around.
> I found an 8-pack of cabinet feet for $3.34, shipping included!



I'm using hardware store stick on feet ATM.


----------



## jamato8

youth said:


> Snake oil at it's finest.


 

 If there are a lot of vibrations they can help. I used to work with Cary Audio and designed and made isolation devices that were also tested and got good reviews from Stereophile and they work, some better than others.


----------



## jamato8

immtbiker said:


> Finally received my Carbon back from the repair center this week, and it's worse!
> 
> This amp is not only exhibiting the same problem, but now I am getting much more aggressive distortion in both channels (not just the left), and with *all *of my headphones, not just the Orthos. It sounded ok when I first started running it last night, but when I got home this evening (after running it for 20 hours straight), the distortion is really bad!
> 
> ...


 

 I would think Cavalli would be repairing these? I would think a new replacement would be in order. Both channels, sounds like a power supply issue. A bad cap, well who knows. Could be a regulator. 
  
 ----------
  
 Wow, it doesn't come with feet? Strange, inexpensive and that is something that is fundamental.


----------



## sling5s

Got shipping notice yesterday and arrived today. Perks of leaving in So. Cal. 
 Burning in now. Did 30sec listen. Dang this thing is transparent. 
 Had some spare Schiit Audio cheap rubber feet. Works great.


----------



## x RELIC x

Hockey pucks for feet. Hey, I'm Canadian!


----------



## immtbiker

yage said:


> Ugh, that's unfortunate. I'm going to receive mine this coming week. Hoping that corners weren't cut just to ship amps out "on time."


 
  
 Seems to be unique to my unit. I just don't understand how it came back with the same problem. Almost like the forgot to do anything with it. And now it's worse.


shini44 said:


> hope they offer you a new unit man :/ this is not cool at all.


 
  
  


doctorjazz said:


> Sucks, sorry, really frustrating (been there with other gear). Back to the shop.


 
  
  
 Alex is offering me a refund, at my request.
  


sheldaze said:


> I'm curious - what did the repair center state was the issue? And what fixes were applied?


 
  
 I asked…and was told they would find out and get back to me, They never did.
  
  
 Alex uses the same shop that builds the amps, to do the repairs in California. So, this is in no way a reflection on Alex (although I do believe I should have gotten offered an instant replacement, instead of suffering a 15 day wait period for the repair, after enduring the long wait from the initial August timeframe, and then getting an untested broken unit).


----------



## jamato8

Sounds to me they didn't let it run long enough to find the bad part and most likely did a replacement of something they thought was causing the problem. I don't understand why Alex can't take it and repair it or replace it rather than a refund.


----------



## Shini44

jamato8 said:


> Sounds to me they didn't let it run long enough to find the bad part and most likely did a replacement of something they thought was causing the problem. I don't understand why Alex can't take it and repair it or replace it rather than a refund.


 
 i don't think someone want a refund on his Liqued Carbon, but i hope he get his fixed soon or replaced.


----------



## vince741

Because he specifically asked for a refund.


----------



## rollinbr

youth said:


> Snake oil at it's finest.


 
 Read a few posts further down and you'll see why he used the feet and if do a google search, you'll find the feet were only $30. So there not way out there in cost which I agree can get to be ridiculous.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/4920#post_12175598


----------



## Shini44

vince741 said:


> Because he specifically asked for a refund.


 
  
 oh thanks for the info , still ouch :/ i would fight for a new one, or a good repair.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm guessing they may not have extra units. If they were really serious about the 500 units and no more. If that's the case, refund may be the only option if it can't be fixed.


----------



## coastal1

Odd, the LC manual states in bold " In fact, *we recommend that you disconnect your headphones* when not listening during this break-in period."
  
 P.3 http://cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual
  
  
 Quote:


storytime said:


> Hi, all. Newbie here.
> 
> I wanted to pass along some additional burn-in advice I received from Dr. Cavalli.
> 
> ...


----------



## vince741

@coastal1: the quote you are referring to refers to the connection between the headphone and the LC.
Storytime question (and Alex answer) was about the connection between the DAC and the amp.


----------



## Peridot

> Odd, the LC manual states in bold " In fact, *we recommend that you disconnect your headphones* when not listening during this break-in period."
> 
> P.3 http://cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual


 
  
 I think the instructions in the manual are intended to provide some legal protection from anyone claiming that that the unattended amp went doolally and fried their mega expensive headphones.
  
 It's far more logical for a break-in period to be under conditions that are representative of normal usage.
  
  
 As far as legs and feet are concerned, as this is a nice piece of equipment I decided it warranted splashing out a bit and so I went for these


----------



## coastal1

vince741 said:


> @coastal1: the quote you are referring to refers to the connection between the headphone and the LC.
> Storytime question (and Alex answer) was about the connection between the DAC and the amp.


 
  
 Are you saying this quote does not refer to the connection between headphone and LC?
  
 "“It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn-in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.”
  
 Seems like that is only about headphones, and not DAC


----------



## jamato8

If you burning with balance headphones or a balanced load you're burning in the entire circuit at one time rather than part of it.


----------



## swspiers

Okay. I decided that it doesn't hurt to follow the burn-in recommendation, so I'm at a little over 24 hours. I have listened quite a bit, mostly binge-watching "Man on the High Castle" on Amazon through the Roku stick in my Oppo. Critical listening will happen for me at about the 100-hour mark.

I'm not sure of any changes, but I can comment on the absolute lack of hiss, buzz, noise, or anything other than a completely black background. High or low gain, it's completely silent. And the Benchmark is as well, just as advertised. I don't think the Primes have ever sounded this rich and full, and an amount of detail that is pretty exciting. Tomorrow I'll take my HFM 400-i's for a spin in SE mode.

I can write this: I have absolutely no buyers remorse, at all!


----------



## stjj89

For those of you running the LC with a DAC-19 (I'm looking at @Stillhart @x RELIC x  @Youth), are you guys stacking it on top of the DAC-19? My DAC-19 runs pretty cool, but I'm a little paranoid about Alex's warning about putting the LC on anything hot.


----------



## Stillhart

stjj89 said:


> For those of you running the LC with a DAC-19 (I'm looking at @Stillhart @x RELIC x  @Youth), are you guys stacking it on top of the DAC-19? My DAC-19 runs pretty cool, but I'm a little paranoid about Alex's warning about putting the LC on anything hot.


 
  
 I sometimes have it stacked and sometimes don't.  The DAC-19 doesn't get even remotely hot so I don't worry about it.  I just checked and I'd say it's warmer than room temperature but nowhere near what I'd call "hot".  It's been on since I got back from RMAF so it should be at full operating temp right now.  :-D


----------



## coastal1

If using headphones to burn in, definitely makes logical sense to use balanced. What happens during burn in if no headphones are used? More than SE, less than SE?

Do you think the manual strongly recommends burn in without headphones just for liability CYA? Seems like they could've worded the manual much differently and still absolve themselves of any liability (e.g., "Some audiophiles report that using balanced headphones during burn in is beneficial because it uses the entire circuit at one time, but please note that using headphones during burn involves risk of damage to the headphones that we expressly disclaim liability for")



jamato8 said:


> If you burning with balance headphones or a balanced load you're burning in the entire circuit at one time rather than part of it.


----------



## RKML0007

First song, first impression with the LC: "Messin' with the Kid" - Bill Frisell, Guitar in the Space Age!
  
 Had to play this over and over. This is like the LC anthem for me right now, it's so much fun. Time to get reacquainted with all the music!


----------



## chowmein83

conquerator2 said:


> Amazing impressions!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey @conquerator2, sorry for the late response, but I've recently only just been able to get some quality time with the HE1000/LC pairing, so I'll share my impressions now.
  
 While I'm more writing this post for conquerator2, hopefully this is helpful to anybody who might be curious about how the LC pairs with the HE1000.
  
 In short, the two pair together magnificently. Honestly, I had a somewhat of a hard time trying to analyze how the HE1000 sounded with the LC because I instead kept trying to listen to the music.
  
 Anyways, to begin with, the LC seems to have enough power to drive the HE1000 amply. This is apparent in classical and orchestral pieces with huge dynamic range. The LC really has the power to accommodate the very sudden changes in volume on the HE1000. Bass comes through wonderfully and is highly textured, without overstaying its welcome.
  
 The LC pairs well with the HE1000's inherent large soundstage. And the LC really allows the HE1000 to strut itself in terms of imaging and separation. The pairing makes for a wonderfully 3D soundstage, in which all sounds are very much separated and ridiculously easy to pick out without it sounding artificial. In short, you have a large yet coherent soundstage.
  
 The pairing's overall sound signature is neutral - no mid-bass bloat, with vocals and treble coming through wonderfully.
  
 The LC/HE1000 combo is also highly transparent. The amp actually allows me to relatively easily pick out which music is dynamic-range limited and poorly mastered on the HE1000, but even this stuff sounds fairly good. However, it becomes quite apparent just how much better well-mastered music sounds on the pairing - it really comes to life. In those well-done recordings, everything just sounds so real - horns come through sharply, vocals are very lifelike, and the drums have a satisfying kick.
  
 I know that I might be gushing a bit too much about the LC/HE1000 combo, considering I haven't really heard other pairings centered around the headphone in my own home. But really, this combo is highly enjoyable, and brings me so much closer to the ridiculously expensive setups I have heard the HE1000 on.
  
 Overall, it's a great pairing.


----------



## vince741

coastal1 said:


> Are you saying this quote does not refer to the connection between headphone and LC?
> 
> "“It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn-in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.”
> 
> Seems like that is only about headphones, and not DAC




This part is but the majority of the message you quote is about the DAC amp interaction.


storytime said:


> I only had SE headphones at the time, so I waited. Then when I was considering balanced HD 650s to pair with the Carbon, I began worrying about whether a balanced SOURCE was also necessary for proper burn-in. So I sent Dr. Cavalli a quick e-mail. (I also wanted to know how loud I should run the amp during this process.) I thought you might want to read his reply:
> 
> “You can burn in from either input and the result should be the same. I normally suggest about 11 o’clock for most of the sources people have. It isn’t necessary to blast the amp for 150 hours, just running it a normal listening levels is enough.”
> 
> That was all I needed to hear: My 650s should arrive Saturday (along with a cheap balanced cable and, of course, a power cord and some Sorbothane feet.) Then let the burn-in begin! I’ll report back soon with my impressions.


----------



## Jozurr

vince741 said:


> This part is but the majority of the message you quote is about the DAC amp interaction.




So if that part of the post says burning in with balanced headphones is better, and the manual says burning in is better with headphones unplugged, which one is actually better? need some clarification here it seems.


----------



## coastal1

vince741 said:


> This part is but the majority of the message you quote is about the DAC amp interaction.


 
  
 Why does it matter what the majority of the message is about?  I understand the DAC/amp interaction, I'm not asking about that, that's on the other side of the amp.  I'm asking about the specific information about the headphone connection/disconnect during burn-in.
  
 I'm asking about the headphone connection because there is conflicting information:
  
*Cavalli LC Manual*:   In fact, *we recommend that you disconnect your headphones *when not listening during this break-in period. (emphasis included in manual) http://cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual
  
*Supposed Cavalli Quote*: "“It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn-in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones."


----------



## Maconi

Here's the quote:
  


runeight said:


> It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.


 
  
 Conflicting information. He himself would have to clear it up.


----------



## vince741

@coastal: we are not in your head, we can't know that you are interested in two sentences when you do a full quote.
If you are just interested in one part, do a partial quote. This way it will be easier to provide assistance 

@jozurr @coastal : you can burn in with or without. 
If you do with headphones, prefer balanced as it will unleashed more power and be more effective than se.
If you do without, and this is to my understanding, you'll also get full power. Depending on how you burn in, this can be stressful, so unplugging the headphone might remove some stress (which is preferred).


----------



## sling5s

I'm confused, initially the very right button (right of volume) when pushed (red light) worked in SE mode. When out, (white light) balanced mode. Now both SE and Balanced work with button out (red light).  
  
 Never mind, I think I get it now. The very right button is not for SE or Balanced headphones but RSA or Balanced inputs.


----------



## rollinbr

sling5s said:


> I'm confused, initially the very right button (right of volume) when pushed (red light) worked in SE mode. When out, (white light) balanced mode. Now both SE and Balanced work with button out (red light).
> 
> Never mind, I think I get it now. The very right button is not for SE or Balanced headphones but RSA or Balanced inputs.


 
 The very right button is for Balanced or SE *input*. The headphone outputs, (SE, Balanced and RSA), are always active.


----------



## coastal1

I subequently isolated my quote to one specific statement about headphones and you responded to that specific HP question, so I'm confident you knew exactly what I was asking, though didnt answer my question.  I'm not interested in arguing with you, I just want to know why the manual says something that conflicts what others have supposedly been told by Cavalli
  
 Do you work for Cavalli?
  
  
 Quote:


vince741 said:


> @coastal: we are not in your head, we can't know that you are interested in two sentences when you do a full quote.
> If you are just interested in one part, do a partial quote. This way it will be easier to provide assistance
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


coastal1 said:


> Are you saying this quote does not refer to the connection between headphone and LC?
> 
> "“It is ok to burn in without headphones. It is better to burn-in with balanced headphones. It is worse to burn in with SE headphones.”
> 
> Seems like that is only about headphones, and not DAC


 

 This part is but the majority of the message you quote is about the DAC amp interaction.


----------



## vince741

I'm not interested in arguing too, so it will be my last intervention on that matter.
I got what you meant when you specifically chose the two sentence quote. When you quoted the full message, I thought that you just misunderstood the point.
I hope this will clear things up.

And no, I do not work for cavalli.


----------



## x RELIC x

sling5s said:


> ...................
> 
> Never mind, I think I get it now. The very right button is not for SE or Balanced headphones but *RSA or Balanced inputs*.




XLR balanced or RCA /3.5mm SE inputs. :wink_face:


----------



## defbear

immtbiker said:


> Seems to be unique to my unit. I just don't understand how it came back with the same problem. Almost like the forgot to do anything with it. And now it's worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps this is old news now. A refund would be unsatisfactory to me if I really wanted the LC. A refund is the easiest way for you to walk away from the situation. Its also the easiest way for Alex to be done with you and your problem. I doubt that's the way Alex sees it but it's there. I will say this. After building 500 of these amps, it would be completely irresponsible not to have spares in the way of parts and a spare amp or two to quickly resolve nasty situations like this for his customers.


----------



## doctorjazz

I agree, he really should have spare Amps and parts available, things never go 100% smoothly, and you need to be prepared for the defects that are bound to pop up. Hopefully he did and will straighten out the problem...


----------



## swspiers

x relic x said:


> swspiers said:
> 
> 
> > True.  I'm not expecting a huge difference.  But the balanced should be a hotter signal, once I verify that the attenuators are at 0 dB.  The specs in the manual don't list the balanced out voltage, but they do list the SE voltage out at 2vRMS. This should affect volume, if nothing else. I'm assuming balanced out is around 4 volts.
> ...



I did get reminded on helping about this hobby can be at times. Thankfully, I have a few years under my belt of troubleshooting issues in my audio system, even if I am relatively new to this headphone thing.
 
So, I did manage to find my Pyst  balanced cables. I don't have that many boxes left after moving, and I found them naturally while cleaning up a little bit. So I disconnected the single ended, and hooked up the XLR's. The volume drop was incredible. I actually had to sit there for a couple minutes and try to figure out how in the world I could have such a volume drop going to the balanced out my benchmark. And then I remembered, there are these jumpers inside the unit to attenuate the balanced outs. Broadcast gear is unnecessarily made to stand 4 volts RMS. So I pulled everything out, disconnecting the benchmark, unscrew the chassis and low and behold, the jumpers were set to attenuate by 20 dB.
 
All in all, not that bad.  But pursuing higher end stuff can get confusing. Especially when my 52-year-old body has to contort itself into the stand my gear currently is in. This was much easier back when I was 30!
 
There may be a slight volume difference, but it is negligible. What sorcery, indeed?


----------



## Jozurr

defbear said:


> Perhaps this is old news now. A refund would be unsatisfactory to me if I really wanted the LC. A refund is the easiest way for you to walk away from the situation. Its also the easiest way for Alex to be done with you and your problem. I doubt that's the way Alex sees it but it's there. I will say this. After building 500 of these amps, it would be completely irresponsible not to have spares in the way of parts and a spare amp or two to quickly resolve nasty situations like this for his customers.




Agreed. You'd hope you get a perfect working amp that youve paid for and have been waiting for and not the money back. I may have understood this refund if everyone was paying when the amps were ready to be sold and had not "invested" in a product to get the bargain/deal/limitededition/whateveryoucallit.


----------



## immtbiker

> ...I have listened quite a bit, mostly binge-watching "Man on the High Castle" on Amazon through the Roku stick in my Oppo...


 
  
 "Hand of God" and "Bosch" are also excellent Amazon Prime shows with great soundtracks that really get wasted without headphones.
  
 My favorite headphone shows are "Hannibal" and "Criminal Minds" which both blow me away with headphones. It is amazing how much effort they put into the soundtrack that is barely heard by the average viewer. Headphones aren't just for music. Binge watching is a great way to break in a Carbon or any other worthy audio component.


----------



## coastal1

Loving this amp so far, only 24 hours into burn-in and it sounds fantastic.
  
 Right now using iPhone w/ CCK->iFi Micro RCA->LC, using HD 650s w/ balanced cable made by a headfier.  I've previously been using the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with Tung Sol 5998 and Telefunken ECC82/12au7 tubes.  
  
 Have not A/B'd it to the Crack but initial impression is that the LC is much better despite the popularity of the Crack/HD650 and my personal liking of that pairing.  I generally use a laptop>iFi Micro but doing the burn-in at my office so using iPhone for now (work computer doesnt let me install the iFi firmware).  On the Crack, playing FLAC on laptop w/ Jriver is noticeably better than using iPhone (Tidal lossless saved offline), so if that holds true for the LC I will be even more happy.  Using a $70 Pangea power cord for the LC, just use a thick monoprice cable for the Crack, but would be surprised if that noticeably affects the SQ.  If not, I may get rid of the Pangea cord as it's a little stiff/bulky for how small and light the LC is.
  
 As has been mentioned, LC has an incredible black background.  Played a Grateful Dead Dick's Picks official release that is not a great quality recording and has some hiss, and that hiss was vastly diminished on the LC, didn't think that could happen.  Good recordings obviously sound that much better.
  
 Amp is powerful.. I briefly tried HD650 using the balanced cable with a SE adapter and was surprised at how good that sounded.  Volume was obviously significantly lower at same setting, but moving up to 3x gain with volume just below 12:00 it became plenty loud and didn't notice nearly the drop in SQ I expected, though I didn't listen to SE long (got the balanced cable for a reason), was just curious.
  
 Incredible clarity and transparency, though very musical, not at all sterile.  Instrument separation/imaging is great, heard nuances I've never heard before on recordings I've listened to a lot of times. As has been mentioned, soundstage is wonderfully deep.  Bass seems much more detailed and stronger than the Crack, without overpowering the HD650 mids.
  
 Given that I'm only 24 hours into burn-in and playing files off iPhone, it's possible that the LC will end up sounding even better, but I will be pleasantly surprised if that happens as I'm thrilled with how great it sounds right now.


----------



## warrenpchi

coastal1 said:


> Loving this amp so far, only 24 hours into burn-in and it sounds fantastic.
> 
> Right now using iPhone w/ CCK->iFi Micro RCA->LC, using HD 650s w/ balanced cable made by a headfier.  I've previously been using the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with Tung Sol 5998 and Telefunken ECC82/12au7 tubes.
> 
> Have not A/B'd it to the Crack but initial impression is that the LC is much better despite the popularity of the Crack/HD650 and my personal liking of that pairing.


 
  





  Wow, really?  That's unexpected for sure.
  
 I haven't heard a Crack + Speedball + HD 650 rig in ages, but I remember it being pretty darned awesome... awesome to the point that I've been recommending that people just stay with that for their HD 650 over spending money on a new amp (including the Carbon).
  
 Maybe I should build a Crack over the winter break and A/B for curiosity's sake.  These brutal 50˚ winters here in SoCal keep up all indoors for hours, and sometimes days, on end.


----------



## Shini44

coastal1 said:


> Loving this amp so far, only 24 hours into burn-in and it sounds fantastic.
> 
> Right now using iPhone w/ CCK->iFi Micro RCA->LC, using HD 650s w/ balanced cable made by a headfier.  I've previously been using the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with Tung Sol 5998 and Telefunken ECC82/12au7 tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hey man thanks for the really thoughtful detailed impressions <3 i am so looking forward to try my whole rig with this amp ^^


----------



## grizzlybeast

warrenpchi said:


> Wow, really?  That's unexpected for sure.
> 
> I haven't heard a Crack + Speedball + HD 650 rig in ages, but I remember it being pretty darned awesome... awesome to the point that I've been recommending that people just stay with that for their HD 650 over spending money on a new amp (including the Carbon).
> 
> Maybe I should build a Crack over the winter break and A/B for curiosity's sake.  These brutal 50˚ winters here in SoCal keep up all indoors for hours, and sometimes days, on end.


 
 yeah Im surprised at that too. But this is the second report of the likes. Someone sold off the most beautiful crack and speedball I have seen here yet after receiving their carbon. A bit shocking honestly. 
  
 Reports elsewhere mention this as an amp that has great macrodynamics, smooth somewhat dark treble, and a black background. A lot of engagement factor. Mine will be here tomorrow. Those reports give me hopes.


----------



## Youth

You guys sure aren't making the waiting easy


----------



## ying

So this is my first impression of the LC.
  
 My current set up is:
  
 Teac UD 301 
  
 Liquid Carbon
  
 Senn HD800
  
 Furutech XLR Cable (DIY)  Using FA-220 Balanced OCC cable and FP-601(G) XLR Plug (cost around $500 CAD for materials)
  
 Generic Sony RCA cable from my PlayStation 1 
  
 Under 80 hours of burn in. 
  
 Did not do A/B testing yet with my Bottlehead Crack and Teac UD301 built in AMP
  
 The first day I got the LC I was super excited to plug it in and listen to it. I wasn't expecting anything big because when I purchase the Bottlehead crack (haven't installed the Speedball yet) I didn't see a huge improvement in sound. The crack did tame down the highs on my HD 800 but I thought it was no where near how people described it. (this is my opinion, as we know everyone has their own when it comes to headphone gear etc..)  
  
 I started up my LC and the first thing I felt was how the sound stage was wider I was so surprised as I thought that nothing could really improve the HD 800 sound stage. I also felt that everything in the music was a lot more detailed. I felt like I purchased a upgraded DAC. The details were very noticeable made everything sound a lot more real in life. Also I felt that my HD 800 highs were more acceptable, I never thought the HD800 trebles were piercing. It felt like increased in resolution but kept the highs at a very good level. (Keep in mind I was using my Generic Sony RCA cable) I didn't put it through balance mode. 
  
 The next couple days I was able to build myself a balanced cable using all Furutech parts, using the FA-220 cables and the FP 601 plugs. I tried them with my new XLR interconnects and in balanced mode. All I can say is wow even bigger improvement in the soundstage and details. This is a lot more obvious when you listen to LIVE music. (I am not good with headfi terminology so it hard to describe everything I felt I heard) I am not sure if the improvement was from the balanced mode, but I think pretty sure it from my new XLR cables. (I have tired other furutech products and I believe that their stuff is quality meaning you can hear a difference with their cables) 
  
 Just want to let you guys know about bit of background, I am not particularly good at hearing differences in music unless it is pretty obvious, for example if you ask me to find the difference between a 320 mp3 or flac I would have a difficult time etc.. Also for the bottlehead crack took me a while to see a small amount of difference but no where near how others report. So just for a heads up if I can hear these differences I would think it would be pretty obvious to others. (just an opinion) 
  
 Anyways I am really enjoying the Liquid Carbon and can't wait until the 150 hour burn in is over. I feel like this is a great pairing with my Senn HD800.


----------



## Serenitty

grizzlybeast said:


> yeah Im surprised at that too. But this is the second report of the likes. Someone sold off the most beautiful crack and speedball I have seen here yet after receiving their carbon. A bit shocking honestly.
> 
> Reports elsewhere mention this as an amp that has great macrodynamics, smooth somewhat dark treble, and a black background. A lot of engagement factor. Mine will be here tomorrow. Those reports give me hopes.




One, thanks for the compliment on my former crack... It was a fun build. 

Two, I was going from T1 with crack to T1 balanced on the LC. But I can certainly say I like the LC better.


----------



## bflat

Weird, I'm in CA and that's where I've heard folks say the shipments originated from. My FEDEX notice said my LC is shipping from Texas LOL. I did order late so maybe Alex is sending me is own personal one since it's sold out! My memories of listening to the LC with my T5P are starting to come back, but also want to try the LC with Laylas which I didn't have back at the SF Meet. Already have my TRRS to XLR balanced adapter on the ready! As for DACs, I will be connecting it to my Bifrost MB and Mojo so will report back on impressions in early Jan after my vacation and burn in. Headphones will be T5P, Ether C, and Laylas.
  
 Happy holidays all!


----------



## bearFNF

They all came from CA but the return address is TX. Watch the tracking to see where it starts.


----------



## sling5s

ying said:


> So this is my first impression of the LC.
> 
> My current set up is:
> 
> ...


 
 Great impressions.  Anyone have both LC and Valhalla 2 with their HD800?  Would also welcome comparisons.


----------



## warrenpchi

grizzlybeast said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > coastal1 said:
> ...


 
  
 Hmm, okay, I'm definitely going to have to A/B the two before I say anything more then.  Thanks for the heads-up guys!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


youth said:


> You guys sure aren't making the waiting easy


 
  
 Why?  Do you have an HD 650?  Lol, omg, you have an HD 650!  HAHAHA!


----------



## reddog

```

```



warrenpchi said:


> Hmm, okay, I'm definitely going to have to A/B the two before I say anything more then.  Thanks for the heads-up guys!
> 
> 
> Why?  Do you have an HD 650?  Lol, omg, you have an HD 650!  HAHAHA!



I very much like to hear the HD 650, I hear its a superb mid-range headphones. It seems to me the HD 650 would be a great office headphone, but they might leak to much sound and annoy ones office mates.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

youth said:


> Snake oil at it's finest.


 
  
 Isolators are great for certain audio components.  The ones with moving parts...
  
 The Liquid Carbon is so light, I'm already tugging that thing around with my headphone cable.  I could only imagine how much more "slippery" those feet could make it.  I think silicone feet are in my future.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
  
 The mids are really something special on the 650. And this headphone has great ability to scale with better gear. They have been selling them NIB recently for as low as $300 and they are simply one of the best buys I've made in audio. 
  
 I'm running balanced from Gumby to LC to 650 and it's hard to believe how good it is.


----------



## sheldaze

warrenpchi said:


> Why?  Do you have an HD 650?  Lol, omg, you have an HD 650!  HAHAHA!


 




  


matttcg said:


> The mids are really something special on the 650. And this headphone has great ability to scale with better gear. They have been selling them NIB recently for as low as $300 and they are simply one of the best buys I've made in audio.
> 
> I'm running balanced from *Gumby* to *LC* to *650* and it's hard to believe how good it is.


 
 Same setup - I found it initially to be subtle, but hard to turn away from. It's quite good


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> Isolators are great for certain audio components.  The ones with moving parts...
> 
> The Liquid Carbon is so light, I'm already tugging that thing around with my headphone cable.  I could only imagine how much more "slippery" those feet could make it.  I think silicone feet are in my future.




Silicone underneath and some type of weight on top keeps it from sliding around. Cheers


----------



## ying

Impression Part 2
  
 The gear I used is the same as Part 1 of my Impression
  
 Only difference is I am using my IEM Etymotic ER4PT
  
 From last times impression I been using the HD800 single ended, this time I am using my iems, ety er4pt attached with the p to s adapter. The er4 are one of the iems that are known to have a smaller soundstage but with extreme accurate details. I always loves how detail and accurate the sound of the er4's were but on the other hand I always wished for a larger soundstage or a bit more. Today I finally found the answer to this problem. The Liquid carbon with my DIY XLR furutech cables and connectors. When I plugged my ER4 I felt that the soundstage has been improve, a lot more wider and clearer now. Before when I would switch been my HD800 and my er4 I wasn't really able to listen to my er4 because of the lack of soundstage. But now it isn't as bad and now i am really able to enjoy my er4 with the liquid carbon. 
  
 If anyone has the HD800 and the ER4 please also share your impression. 
  
 Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## immtbiker

warrenpchi said:


> I haven't heard a Crack + Speedball + HD 650 rig in ages, but I remember it being pretty darned awesome... awesome to the point that I've been recommending that people just stay with that for their HD 650 over spending money on a new amp (including the Carbon)….


 
  
 Is the Crack really that decent?
  
 I arbitrarily just bought one for my son for Christmas, for us to do a Father/Son build. He's got  DT880-600 from way back when, and I figured that he would have something dusty and "audio-related" to remember me after I'm long gone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to be able to tell his Beats-ownin' friends that his dad bought him some crack to have fun with.


----------



## ying

immtbiker said:


> Is the Crack really that decent?
> 
> I arbitrarily just bought one for my son for Christmas, for us to do a Father/Son build. He's got  DT880-600 from way back when, and I figured that he would have something dusty and "audio-related" to remember me after I'm long gone.   I want to be able to tell his Beats-ownin' friends that his dad bought him some crack to have fun with.




I didn't think the crack was that good. I haven't installed the speedball upgrade yet. what your impression vs the LC?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

immtbiker said:


> Is the Crack really that decent?
> 
> I arbitrarily just bought one for my son for Christmas, for us to do a Father/Son build. He's got  DT880-600 from way back when, and I figured that he would have something dusty and "audio-related" to remember me after I'm long gone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Crack is fine, and Speedball helps.  Just temper your expectations.  People really rave about it, and it makes you expect steak.  But its just hamburger, though a good burger is nothing to sneeze at...


----------



## xanlamin

coastal1 said:


> Loving this amp so far, only 24 hours into burn-in and it sounds fantastic.
> 
> Right now using iPhone w/ CCK->iFi Micro RCA->LC, using HD 650s w/ balanced cable made by a headfier.  I've previously been using the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball with Tung Sol 5998 and Telefunken ECC82/12au7 tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 How would you compare LC with iFi Micro? Is it better than Micro? In what ways is it better or worse?


----------



## bearFNF

Was not too impressed with the crack even with the speed ball. Definitely better amps for the HD650 and HD800's out there. LC being one of them


----------



## f0oster

Finally!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 I haven't been through any burn in at all -- tbh I just plugged it in to make sure it works.
  
 Initial impressions though: Sounds fantastic. In just the first few moments listening I decided I'm very happy. IMO, it definitely sits on the warmer side of the 'neutral' spectrum. It sounds amazing with all the rock and metal I've thrown at it so far. The pairing with my Ether is significantly better than the HeadRoom Max '05, which retailed at ~$1500 USD some years ago.
  
 I have not listened to much else but I have a vast collection of different genres and styles of music, I'll report back when I've heard more and I've gone through the burn in. Am curious to see how much things change in the next few weeks of listening.


----------



## gto88

nice, I just got mine half hour ago,and enjoying it.
 Will try to burn-in to recommended 150HRs


----------



## warrenpchi

reddog said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm, okay, I'm definitely going to have to A/B the two before I say anything more then.  Thanks for the heads-up guys!
> ...


 
  
 Though I'm one of those guys that prefers the HD 600 to the HD 650, they do make for a nice listening experience when properly driven.  You amp selection would have no problems with it, lol.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Every once in a while, Amazon flips out that they're not selling well enough, and drops the price like crazy.  I suggest setting a camelcamelcamel.com price watch on it so that you can snap it up cheaply if/when that time comes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


matttcg said:


> The mids are really something special on the 650. And this *headphone has great ability to scale with better gear*. They have been selling them NIB recently for as low as $300 and they are simply one of the best buys I've made in audio.
> 
> I'm running balanced from Gumby to LC to 650 and it's hard to believe how good it is.


 
  
 Yes, that's the key!  The HD 650's true potential is often buried by inadequate amplification.
  
 The problem is, it's not easy recommending to people that they spend a bunch of money on an amp just to reveal the HD 650's capabilities.  In fact, years and years ago, when I was decidedly a noob, I myself tried to drive it with an O2 as that was all I had at the time.  It wasn't great that way.
  
 But that is also why I like the Bottlehead Crack.  It's about as minimal an investment as one can make in terms of properly driving an HD 650.  And IMHO, there's a bit of special synergy between the Crack and the HD 650 as well.
  


sheldaze said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Why?  Do you have an HD 650?  Lol, omg, you have an HD 650!  HAHAHA!


 
  
 Lol, because he joked that the HD 650 impressions were making his wait harder to take.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


immtbiker said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't heard a Crack + Speedball + HD 650 rig in ages, but I remember it being pretty darned awesome... awesome to the point that I've been recommending that people just stay with that for their HD 650 over spending money on a new amp (including the Carbon)….
> ...


 
  
 I think so, mainly for the reasons above.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's a fantastic value, harkens a little bit back to the DIY days (even if it is just board population and soldering), and the result is something that pairs with the HD 650 quite well - far better than most anything else that even resembles it in price.
  


bearfnf said:


> Was not too impressed with the crack even with the speed ball. Definitely better amps for the HD650 and HD800's out there. LC being one of them


 
  
 Lol, so I've heard!


----------



## sujitsky

Fellow European Carbon Owners... 
  
 Can any of you recommend an online source to purchase legs for the carbon? I am not having too much success finding something similar to what came with my geek pulse. Thanks!!!


----------



## coastal1

I agree with all this and have been very happy with the Crack and it has a uniqueness/aesthetic quality that you obviously aren't going to get w/ a SS amp. I will note that while the Crack is a minimal initial investment to properly drive the HD650 and others, some of the more popular tubes for the Crack like the Tung Sol 5998 are not cheap, and if you get into tube rolling, which is something a lot of people enjoy with the Crack, you can easily spend more on tubes than the Crack itself, though obviously don't have to.



warrenpchi said:


> Yes, that's the key!  The HD 650's true potential is often buried by inadequate amplification.
> 
> The problem is, it's not easy recommending to people that they spend a bunch of money on an amp just to reveal the HD 650's capabilities.  In fact, years and years ago, when I was decidedly a noob, I myself tried to drive it with an O2 as that was all I had at the time.  It wasn't great that way.
> 
> ...


----------



## coastal1

Not sure it's really fair to compare the amp on the Micro to the LC as the Micro is less expensive and an integrated DAC/amp. The LC sounds better in every way - black background, clarity, detail, instrument separation/imaging, soundstage.

That said, the Micro is a great device and very versatile. Using it just as a DAC right now, but it's transportable and can run on battery (though a little large for jeans/pants pockets). And the Micro does sound good on its own and has plenty of power to drive the HD650 and more. I find that the features on the Micro (bass boost and 3D) can improve some recordings without sounding gimmicky. 



xanlamin said:


> How would you compare LC with iFi Micro? Is it better than Micro? In what ways is it better or worse?


----------



## Stillhart

reddog said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 
  
  


warrenpchi said:


> Though I'm one of those guys that prefers the HD 600 to the HD 650, they do make for a nice listening experience when properly driven.  You amp selection would have no problems with it, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd sub to the deals thread.  It shows up on a few sites for cheap, not always just Amazon. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post


----------



## chefboyarlee

So has anyone paired the LC with the Bifrost multibit?


----------



## tuxbass

chefboyarlee said:


> So has anyone paired the LC with the Bifrost multibit?


 
 I will be when I eventually get my Amp delivered.


----------



## sheldaze

chefboyarlee said:


> So has anyone paired the LC with the Bifrost multibit?


 
 I would also ask @atomicbob, who posted something recently regarding Liquid Carbon measurements.


----------



## Stillhart

chefboyarlee said:


> So has anyone paired the LC with the Bifrost multibit?


 
  
@Hansotek will be when his amp gets in...


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> chefboyarlee said:
> 
> 
> > So has anyone paired the LC with the Bifrost multibit?
> ...



Yup! I'm going to be out of town for a couple days over the holiday but should have the Carbon in house and paired up with a Bimby on the 28th or 29th.

It should be fully okay to burn in with SE DAC input, right? I assume the recommendation to burn in with balanced applies to the output section only, yes?

Edit: Skip that, I just got delivery confirmation 2 days early!!!! Woo hoo! Going to pick up my LC now!!!


----------



## x RELIC x

Well..... It's been over 6 days and 6 hours, running fully balanced in and out, and I can say I hear a difference from burn in.....

Caveat: I was burning in my ETHER C at the same time so any impressions I have on burn in of the Liquid Carbon alone are fairly moot. 

Dan recommends over 100+ hours for the ETHER C and Alex recommends 150 and I've had them running together the whole time. Compared to when I first listened to the pair I hear more macro dynamics for sure. The low end (bass/lower mids) has a lot more weight but it still sparkles clearly. What a great combo that's very fun yet detailed and analytical at the same time.

I'm walking on egg shells here because I don't want to over emphasis the effect of the burn in, but at the same time don't want to understate it either.  

My only regret is that by running them both together I have no clue what improvements are from which component.


----------



## atomicbob

chefboyarlee said:


> So has anyone paired the LC with the Bifrost multibit?


 
 you mean like this:

 I could listen to this. Oh, I am. With HD650 and HD800. The GuMB running balanced into the Liquid Carbon will provide a bit more resolution. However, this is a very enjoyable system. I judge systems on how well they produce an immersive experience (IE) and how fast they induce listening fatigue (LF). This setup is high on the IE and low on the LF.


----------



## atomicbob

warrenpchi said:


> <lots of edits>
> 
> Though I'm one of those guys that prefers the HD 600 to the HD 650, they do make for a nice listening experience when properly driven.
> 
> ...


 
 I too had a preference for the 600 over the 650 until I experienced a recent production 650. The newer HD650 does not sound like those of years ago and has improved in my opinion. I think Sennheiser has been sneaking in updates as they gained experience on user comments and preference. HD600 has remained fairly constant over the same period, having heard samples from several different years.
  
 I second the comments by @warrenpchi concerning HD650 (and HD600 and HD800) realizing true potential with amplification that works well with them. I hold on to my BH Crack (stock, no SpeedBall) due to its uncanny ability to "goodify" lesser recordings, especially 60s 70s and 80s rock, when heard with HD6x0. Jazz recordings from the 50s through 70s, especially from Columbia Records, sound more like musicians and less like recordings. Put a Bifrost MB DAC in front of the Crack, a Chatham 6AS7g output tube and a PS Vane 12AU7 in the Crack and listen to the magic happen.


----------



## coastal1

For burn in, if not using a balanced DAC, is there any downside to plugging an IPod into the 3.5mm input rather than using separate DAC plugged into RCA?


----------



## AxelCloris

coastal1 said:


> For burn in, if not using a balanced DAC, is there any downside to plugging an IPod into the 3.5mm input rather than using separate DAC plugged into RCA?


 

 That should work just fine. It's more about burning in the amp components, all of which come after the LC's phase splitter, so you can use any source you want. That said, I'd burn in the amp using the RCA inputs if that's what you plan to eventually use. You could get a cheap 3.5mm to stereo RCA cable and still use the iPod.


----------



## ScooterHD122

I just received my Liquid Carbon today
 - using LCD-Xs and Fostex TH-X00, it's smooth and effortless
 - I am not sure what if any difference there is between the LC and Schiit Ragnarok in overall characteristics
 - Solid build
 - I am very happy with my purchase; although the LC is currently sold out, if you get another chance to buy one, go for it!
 - I do not miss my tube amps (although I still have a L2)


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> Well..... It's been over 6 days and 6 hours, running fully balanced in and out, and I can say I hear a difference from burn in.....
> 
> Caveat: I was burning in my ETHER C at the same time so any impressions I have on burn in of the Liquid Carbon alone are fairly moot.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well on the plus side, break-in is only relevant for a very small percentage of the time you'll own these products.  The important part isn't what changed exactly, it's just reporting on the sound AFTER the changes occur.
  
 Speaking of which, How's the DAC-19->LC->Ether C treating you?  I'm still waffling on pulling the trigger on a C (so many monies!) and so I want to live vicariously!  I heard this setup briefly at the Ether C launch and I'm still dreaming about it...


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> Well on the plus side, break-in is only relevant for a very small percentage of the time you'll own these products.  The important part isn't what changed exactly, it's just reporting on the sound AFTER the changes occur.
> 
> Speaking of which, How's the DAC-19->LC->Ether C treating you?  I'm still waffling on pulling the trigger on a C (so many monies!) and so I want to live vicariously!  I heard this setup briefly at the Ether C launch and I'm still dreaming about it...




I'm interested in the LC and Ether C combo. I'm looking for a really good closed HP. Thanks


----------



## Hansotek

pcpark said:


> - I am not sure what if any difference there is between the LC and Schiit Ragnarok in overall characteristics



The difference is very easy to pick out. The LC sounds better.


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> Well on the plus side, break-in is only relevant for a very small percentage of the time you'll own these products.  The important part isn't what changed exactly, it's just reporting on the sound AFTER the changes occur.
> 
> Speaking of which, How's the DAC-19->LC->Ether C treating you?  I'm still waffling on pulling the trigger on a C (so many monies!) and so I want to live vicariously!  I heard this setup briefly at the Ether C launch and I'm still dreaming about it...




To be honest I haven't listened much with the DAC-19 -> LC -> ETHER C. Just went through the burn in using HA-1 balanced -> LC (just because). Holidays will prevent me from listening to the combo for another week and a half. I'm learning to have Liquid Patience, and believe me it's difficult.


----------



## Hansotek

While it's only a temporary situation, I had to share this pile of HOLY @&!* awesomeness sitting on my desk right now.  This is going to be a really, really, really fun little shootout. 

So glad I pulled the trigger on the Liquid Carbon. It's only a couple of hours out of the box, but dang, this little thing is awesome.


----------



## Shini44

hansotek said:


> While it's only a temporary situation, I had to share this pile of HOLY @&!* awesomeness sitting on my desk right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i had the Master 9 before, and totally miss the creamy lush mids on it, which i didn't hear anything that could top it till this day  
  
 looking forward for your notes about the comparisons between LC and M9  (regardless the price ofc)


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Every once in a while, Amazon flips out that they're not selling well enough, and drops the price like crazy.  I suggest setting a camelcamelcamel.com price watch on it so that you can snap it up cheaply if/when that time comes.
> ...


 
  
 Good idea!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quotes: 





x relic x said:


> Caveat: I was burning in my ETHER C at the same time so any impressions I have on burn in of the Liquid Carbon alone are fairly moot.
> 
> My only regret is that by running them both together I have no clue what improvements are from which component.


 


stillhart said:


> Well on the plus side, break-in is only relevant for a very small percentage of the time you'll own these products.  The important part isn't what changed exactly, it's just reporting on the sound AFTER the changes occur.


 
  
 Yeah, honestly, I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest.  The only times that I track burn-in/break-in these days is when I'm writing up a review, so that I can give people a reasonable approximation of how a unit might differ in sound (assuming that it does) beyond that of a typical return period.  It helps to keep people from getting stuck with a headphone that they don't like.
  


hansotek said:


> Yup! I'm going to be out of town for a couple days over the holiday
> *...*
> Skip that, I just got delivery confirmation 2 days early!!!! Woo hoo! Going to pick up my LC now!!!
> *...*
> ...


 
  
 Woo hoo!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That all happened so fast that it made my head spin!  LOL @ the Carbon vs the Headtrip BTW.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


atomicbob said:


> I too had a preference for the 600 over the 650 until I experienced a recent production 650. The newer HD650 does not sound like those of years ago and has improved in my opinion. I think Sennheiser has been sneaking in updates as they gained experience on user comments and preference. HD600 has remained fairly constant over the same period, having heard samples from several different years.
> 
> I second the comments by @warrenpchi concerning HD650 (and HD600 and HD800) realizing true potential with amplification that works well with them. I hold on to my BH Crack (stock, no SpeedBall) due to its uncanny ability to "goodify" lesser recordings, especially 60s 70s and 80s rock, when heard with HD6x0. Jazz recordings from the 50s through 70s, especially from Columbia Records, sound more like musicians and less like recordings. Put a Bifrost MB DAC in front of the Crack, a Chatham 6AS7g output tube and a PS Vane 12AU7 in the Crack and listen to the magic happen.


 
  
 Okay, that does it, I'm gonna have to get a new 650 when the price drops.  Then we can...


----------



## bearFNF

Actually, the important part is that, after the burn-in, you still like what you hear.
 Because, if it changed enough that you don't like it, that would suck!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Reporting on it is secondary and knowing what changed it tertiary IMHO...


----------



## stuart1927

I got my LC today....burning in now, but have had a few sneak peeks to get an impression of the sound.
  
 I have LC connected up with:
  
 Ibasso dx80 dap
 emotiva stealth dc-1 dac
 Alpha prime headphones
 balance cables from emotiva to LC from Blue Jeans cable
 Balanced headphone 4 pin xlr dum cable from Mr Speakers
  
 All I can say is initial impressions are very good indeed. So far, the standout is the dead quiet background and power. The primes aren't that easy to drive, but the LC does very well. Bass is very solid and treble very controlled. I'm holding out on any further observations until I have at least 100 hrs or so on the clock. However, this little box looks extremely promising and has so far exceeded my expectations.


----------



## Hansotek

shini44 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > While it's only a temporary situation, I had to share this pile of HOLY @ width: 350px; height: 263px">
> ...



Yeah dude! I totally recognized you avatar from the Master-9 thread!! I think it is worthy of a comparison with zero price consideration, based on early impressions. Not sure who will win the day once the LC is burned in, I think it will be close.


----------



## stuart1927

Now I'm worried! I pushed the button on a DNA Stratus tube amp around 6 months ago, _I bought the LC more as a "what the hell" deal ...like an interim investment to fill a gap. But now I'm thinking....will the stratus ($2700) amp give me that much more than this little $600 box?_
  
_It's subjective I guess, I'm usually a tube guy, I like rolling and hearing the differences, but this little ss amp really kicks ass, whilst being detailed and tonally very balanced. A real triumph I think._
  
_It's changed my perspective and expectations of headphone amps._


----------



## Hansotek

warrenpchi said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > [CONTENTEMBED=/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/735#post_12185386 layout=inline]Yup! I'm going to be out of town for a couple days over the holiday[/CONTENTEMBED]
> ...




Yeah, not exactly fair... but a very fun experiment!


----------



## Hansotek

stuart1927 said:


> Now I'm worried! I pushed the button on a DNA Stratus tube amp around 6 months ago, _I bought the LC more as a "what the hell" deal ...like an interim investment to fill a gap. But now I'm thinking....will the stratus ($2700) amp give me that much more than this little $600 box?_
> 
> _It's subjective I guess, I'm usually a tube guy, I like rolling and hearing the differences, but this little ss amp really kicks ass, whilst being detailed and tonally very balanced. A real triumph I think._
> 
> _It's changed my perspective and expectations of headphone amps._



What? Why? No. You can't go wrong with the Stratus, dude. The Carbon is really great, but the Stratus is a flagship among flagships. One of the absolute best pieces of equipment I've heard.


----------



## stuart1927

I'm sure it will be Hansotek.....just had a wobble when I heard how good the LC was!!! The stratus is a bit of a beast by all accounts...hope to be able to compare sometime in January 2016!


----------



## zachawry

Mine arrived: 
  


 The way the Kobiconn cord has to thread under the volume knob is annoying. Maybe I'll send my cable in to get it re-terminated to XLR. As for sound, I'm not sure yet. Still in first hour. Definitely fuller than Hugo alone, with better bass. Not sure about the soundstage, though, and the Hugo alone is clearer/cleaner/purer. Will have to listen more.
  
 Edit: While I don't think I'm wrong about the Hugo alone sounding clearer or purer, the Cavalli definitely adds something compelling that wasn't there before. That's the best word for it, I think: *compelling*. I just can't stop listening. Not only can I not stop listening, I don't want to do anything BUT listen! Before I would listen and websurf or read or whatever, but with the Cavalli the music just drags me in and takes away my ability to do anything but concentrate on the sound.


----------



## grizzlybeast

What is cool is the tons of impressions pouring in. I feel like the Carbon is a good amp. So far it only has a tad more warmth in the lower mids and doesn;t change the sound sig much of the Pulse xfi but it is a better sounding amp than the xfi headphone out. Short listen says its a bit more dynamic and better at revealing dynamics a little. But that is SE vs SE and I don't have anything balanced *YET*
 Why not add a pic.


----------



## Hansotek

zachawry said:


> Mine arrived:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Soundstage tends to be one of the aspects that changes the most with burn in, in my experience. I'd wait until you get past the 150 hour mark to make any judgements on that aspect of it. Many components tend to sound kinda 2D when they're right out of the box.


----------



## Stillhart

grizzlybeast said:


> What is cool is the tons of impressions pouring in. I feel like the Carbon is a good amp. So far it only has a tad more warmth in the lower mids and doesn;t change the sound sig much of the Pulse xfi but it is a better sounding amp than the xfi headphone out. Short listen says its a bit more dynamic and better at revealing dynamics a little. But that is SE vs SE and I don't have anything balanced *YET*
> Why not add a pic.


 
  
 If you like it now, wait until you have 4x the power out of the balanced jack.  :-D


----------



## x RELIC x

warrenpchi said:


> Yeah, honestly, I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest.  The only times that I track burn-in/break-in these days is when I'm writing up a review, so that I can give people a reasonable approximation of how a unit might differ in sound (assuming that it does) beyond that of a typical return period.  It helps to keep people from getting stuck with a headphone that they don't like.




Yeah, not worried at all, I just like to know. Curious minds and all that.


----------



## sheldaze

hansotek said:


> The difference is very easy to pick out. The LC sounds better.


 
 Agree - difference is easy to pick out.
  
 Disagree - each to its own purpose. However, LC is clearly better with dynamic drivers.
  


Spoiler: Caveat



I caveat this though, in that I'd like to have at least one or two high-end dynamic driver headphones, but the list of high-end dynamic driver headphones is so short. Basically if I want two, I would need to get 800 and 800S 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 So I'm waiting for the next local meet to hear an 800 for myself on the LC, or for a few reviews to roll in on the 800S stating problems are all solved - all clear to go buy.


----------



## swspiers

Just a quick update with about 120 hours on the LC. I'm using my Hifiman HE-400i's, single-ended. I do not have a balanced cable, mostly because I did not expect that much of a difference. However, I have compared the single ended output of my Benchmark DAC-1 to the balanced output. Contrary to what I first reported, and contrary to what I was advised, there is a significant difference in output. The most striking is the volume difference between SE/Balanced out of the DAC-1. I have not taken any measurements at all, and don't have any way to accurately do so. However, my best guess is a 6 dB difference between the outputs of the dac. I really didn't expect this.

But what really blows me away is the sound of the LC versus the headphone output of the Benchmark. The Benchmark is every bit as screechy and glaring as I have ever read it to be. It has a very pronounced treble, and by all accounts it is a very bright amplifier. It does have a lot of detail though, and with moderate listening levels I don't find it too bad. But the LC matches it in detail, and utterly trounces it in terms of bass, soundstage, and generally sounding awesome. I've used the 400i's on a few amps, including the headphone output of my iPhone, and always thought they sounded great regardless of amplification. This might be true, but even in single ended mode, the LC is nothing short of astounding at eking out a whole other level of performance from my favorite headphones.

Interestingly, the LC doesn't sound that great using my Grado SR-225i's, which I usually enjoy listening to. I may have had too high of expectations, but the Grado's still sounded exactly like Grado's, and the difference between the LC and the Benchmark weren't that great. It was a little disappointing.

But the sound I'm getting out of the 400i's more than makes up for everything. I still feel strange preferring them to my Alpha Primes, but with most material I certainly do. The LC simply makes me prefer the 400i's even more!


----------



## stuart1927

Well, less than 24 hrs in, but curiosity got the better of me!
  
 One of my favourite recordings is Spiral by Hiromi. It's a superbly recorded piece of music and it's my go to reference for any gear I have....highly recommended.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(Hiromi_album
  
  
 Anyway, on the LC, (emotiva dc-1 stealth dac, Ibasso dx-80 dap and Alpha primes) it is just staggering how good it sounds. Tony Grey's bass on the opening track was actually coming from the back of my skull!....that's never happened before! I've heard people talk about 3d soundstage and separation and thought there was a lot of bs going on, but I'm a believer now!
  
 My over-riding impression of this amp is that basically Mr Cavali just knows what he is doing. The implementation is just superb. 
  
 Screw burn in....I'm just gonna listen!


----------



## Cardiiiii

Can someone who just received the LC please check the shipping box if they still have it and let me know the post code it was shipped from? My tracking number says mine is being delivered to a different state in Australia.


----------



## Viper2005

cardiiiii said:


> Can someone who just received the LC please check the shipping box if they still have it and let me know the post code it was shipped from? My tracking number says mine is being delivered to a different state in Australia.


 
  
93021


----------



## yonitaun

Just received mine yesterday, and am very much enjoying the sound straight out of the box, although I only have single ended headphone cabling at the moment. I'm very exited to hear this amp via the balanced out.
  
 I did have a question regarding the switching. The manual states that the far right switch that toggles SE and balanced should be white/out for balanced, and red/in for SE, yet my amp is the opposite. I also noticed this in atomicbob's picture of his set up:
  
 Quote:


atomicbob said:


> you mean like this:
> 
> 
> 
> I could listen to this. Oh, I am. With HD650 and HD800. The GuMB running balanced into the Liquid Carbon will provide a bit more resolution. However, this is a very enjoyable system. I judge systems on how well they produce an immersive experience (IE) and how fast they induce listening fatigue (LF). This setup is high on the IE and low on the LF.


 
 Just curious how common of an occurrence this is, although I'm guessing as long as both outputs work fine it shouldn't really matter...


----------



## Stillhart

yonitaun said:


> Just curious how common of an occurrence this is, although I'm guessing as long as both outputs work fine it shouldn't really matter...


 
 Once again, that button toggles the input, not the output.  Both outputs are always on.  Only one input at a time is on. 
  
 If you think about it a bit, this makes perfect sense.


----------



## f0oster

stillhart said:


> Once again, that button toggles the input, not the output.  Both outputs are always on.  Only one input at a time is on.
> 
> If you think about it a bit, this makes perfect sense.


 
 Not sure if I am misunderstanding....
  
 are you suggesting that the Liquid Carbon will output to the XLR (balanced) and SE jacks at the same time?
  
 edit:
 it definitely does, just tested it.


----------



## yonitaun

stillhart said:


> Once again, that button toggles the input, not the output.  Both outputs are always on.  Only one input at a time is on.
> 
> If you think about it a bit, this makes perfect sense.


 

 Yes, that does make sense. Thanks Stillhart, apologies for missing that.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Ok, men arrived this afternoon and has been burning in ever since (2 hours towards gazillion). 

Just briefly plugged my LCD-3f in, rich midrange, nice bass pitch, a little grain on some vocals but pretty impressive. I'll let her burn in over Christmas and try my HD800 briefly next week.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, and a splendid new year to all!


----------



## aamefford

My take on burn in after 100 hours - I think it sounds a little better. Maybe. Don't get too wrapped up in it. Just listen. Let it keep running when not listening. Usual imho, ymmv disclaimers.


----------



## atsq17

When I first tried it, it sounded good but inferior to my Auralic Taurus. 
  
 After a few days straight of burn in, it now sounds at least as good as the much more expensive Taurus but a different flavor of awesome. 
  
 Tested with MrSpeakers Ether and LH Labs Pulse Infinity DAC.


----------



## defbear

I had 180-200 hours burn in. I think the amp is brighter than it was when new. And brighter than it needs to be. I also think it 'rocked' a little harder. Perhaps it has more finesse.


----------



## swspiers

defbear said:


> I had 180-200 hours burn in. I think the amp is brighter than it was when new. And brighter than it needs to be. I also think it 'rocked' a little harder. Perhaps it has more finesse.




I haven't noticed it getting brighter at all at just under 150 hours. In fact, one of the most amazing things to me is how it manages to present so much detail without excessive energy in the treble region. Even my Grado's didn't get harsh, where on the Benchmark they can be unbearable.

YMMV, and all that!


----------



## LajostheHun

grizzlybeast said:


> What is cool is the tons of impressions pouring in. I feel like the Carbon is a good amp. So far it only has a tad more warmth in the lower mids and doesn;t change the sound sig much of the Pulse xfi but it is a better sounding amp than the xfi headphone out. Short listen says its a bit more dynamic and better at revealing dynamics a little. But that is SE vs SE and I don't have anything balanced *YET*
> Why not add a pic.




You really missing out, I was in that boat for about 2 weeks, and frankly I wasn't impressed with the LC as an SE amp, my Ican was easily besting it for less than half the price. Once I got my balanced cable for my Z7 things changed quite a bit. It's clear this amp was made for balanced use only, and that's the only way i would recommend to use it in a long term as well. As always YMMV.


----------



## defbear

Since I have had my Liquid Carbon for weeks now, It could just be me as well. I let my Master 11 go 12 hours with my hd800's (not with me wearing them) and then thought the Master 11 sounded brighter. And in the end, no it wasn't. But for me, yes burn-in works on many things. It's real. And it's for the birds. Just like leather boots, an acoustic guitar or your handmade item, it's best to let them burn in through natural use. There is a vibration device that you can attach to the soundboard of your acoustic guitar to break it in. Yes it works. The guitar definitely sounds bigger after applying this device for a few hours. But the effect goes away if you do not apply regular treatments. Perhaps electronics suffer from relapse as well. My Liquid Carbon's brightness calmed down a bit and took the edge back off the treble. I will say my lcd2-f's have never sounded this good before. They are actually revealing some things not noticed before with my hd800's. And that is worth the amp right there. But for me, Burn-in is the Bunk. So all you owners now have permission to not burn-in your amp but just enjoy it. No no that's not right either. Burn-in is part of the enjoyment. I'm off to run the Ayre CD and see what that does. It really works too.


----------



## swspiers

defbear said:


> Since I have had my Liquid Carbon for weeks now, It could just be me as well. I let my Master 11 go 12 hours with my hd800's (not with me wearing them) and then thought the Master 11 sounded brighter. And in the end, no it wasn't. But for me, yes burn-in works on many things. It's real. And it's for the birds. Just like leather boots, an acoustic guitar or your handmade item, it's best to let them burn in through natural use. There is a vibration device that you can attach to the soundboard of your acoustic guitar to break it in. Yes it works. The guitar definitely sounds bigger after applying this device for a few hours. But the effect goes away if you do not apply regular treatments. Perhaps electronics suffer from relapse as well. My Liquid Carbon's brightness calmed down a bit and took the edge back off the treble. I will say my lcd2-f's have never sounded this good before. They are actually revealing some things not noticed before with my hd800's. And that is worth the amp right there. But for me, Burn-in is the Bunk. So all you owners now have permission to not burn-in your amp but just enjoy it. No no that's not right either. Burn-in is part of the enjoyment. I'm off to run the Ayre CD and see what that does. It really works too.




Ha!

You just reminded me why this hobby is so fun and exciting!


----------



## doctorjazz

Because there is such a thing as a burn in CD?


----------



## sling5s

I'm loving the LC and Audio Gd D19 with my HD800.  It never sounded so good. It has bass and full mids. Balanced is definitely the way to go.
 As for my Grado GH1 (SE), it did not pair so well.  The Grado GH1 sounded much better on my Lyr 2 and Gustard H10.  I'm sure the Grado GH1 might sound better balanced but I do not want to recable them.  On the other hand, the HD800 sounded so engaging and lively with the LC, that I had no desire for the Grado and have sold it.
 The HD800 with LC out Grado'ed the Grado.


----------



## tuxbass

Warning: Noob question
 When burning-in without the headphones connected, does the position of the volume pot even matter ? If it does where should it be set ?


----------



## musiclvr

tuxbass said:


> Warning: Noob question
> When burning-in without the headphones connected, does the position of the volume pot even matter ? If it does where should it be set ?



Around 11-12 o'clock


----------



## reddog

tuxbass said:


> Warning: Noob question
> When burning-in without the headphones connected, does the position of the volume pot even matter ? If it does where should it be set ?



It should not matter, if worried you can just turn the volume, to the 11 a clock position and let your amp burn in.


----------



## Shini44

reddog said:


> It should not matter, if worried you can just turn the volume, to the 11 a clock position and let your amp burn in.


 
 so we don't need the headphone to be connected for the burn in?
  
 same result or doesn't matter? 
  
  
  
 will connect mine to an ipad (being charged) and keep the amp playing without a headphone while the vol is at 11 clock
  
 good idea?  i hope so :3


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> Once again, that button toggles the input, not the output.  Both outputs are always on.  Only one input at a time is on.
> 
> If you think about it a bit, this makes perfect sense.


 
 Yep, Dan is 100% correct. As stated numerous times, and also in the literature for the LC, the switch toggles between SE and Balanced INPUTS, with the SE and Balanced OUTPUTS active no matter which input is selected. That's one of the great elements of the LC. Cheers


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> Because there is such a thing as a burn in CD?


I would never use a burn in disk to actually burn in something. Ye Cats! Monkey with a gun. But the short set of tones used to degauss headphones works. You can also get the Cardas Clarifier from the various app stores. It revived several iem's that I thought were dead.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> Once again, that button toggles the input, not the output.  Both outputs are always on.  Only one input at a time is on.
> 
> If you think about it a bit, this makes perfect sense.


 
  
  


mscott58 said:


> Yep, Dan is 100% correct. As stated numerous times, and also in the literature for the LC, the switch toggles between SE and Balanced INPUTS, with the SE and Balanced OUTPUTS active no matter which input is selected. That's one of the great elements of the LC. Cheers


 

 Worth noting here, or repeating here - Don't plug a single ended headphone into the 1/4" TRS jack while a balanced headphone is plugged into the 4 pin XLR jack.  You run the risk of shorting out the amp.  This was noted a while back in one of the multitude of Carbon threads.


----------



## Stillhart

tuxbass said:


> Warning: Noob question
> When burning-in without the headphones connected, does the position of the volume pot even matter ? If it does where should it be set ?


 
  
  


musiclvr said:


> Around 11-12 o'clock


 
  
 Yup, Alex confirmed this in another thread.
  


shini44 said:


> so we don't need the headphone to be connected for the burn in?
> 
> same result or doesn't matter?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Per the documentation here https://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual
  
 "It is not necessary to leave headphones attached. In fact, we recommend that you disconnect your headphones when not listening during this break-in period."


----------



## MattTCG

My carbon is fully burned in. Is there any issue burning in a new single ended headphone with the Carbon?


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> My carbon is fully burned in. Is there any issue burning in a new single ended headphone with the Carbon?


 
  
 Can't imagine why there would be.  You can use an old cell phone if you want, it just needs sound playing through it.


----------



## jamato8

matttcg said:


> My carbon is fully burned in. Is there any issue burning in a new single ended headphone with the Carbon?


 

 Can't see why there would be. I think the burn-in in balanced was so that the entire circuit is burned in rather than a section of it as when you use just the SE mode. I know that it was said you could just leave the LC on and it would burn in but that makes no sense as you want current going through the system, which allows the caps for form and the rest of the circuitry form restores and so on to settle. Dielectric changes and even has capacitance so all of this needs time and voltage/current.


----------



## MattTCG

I guess that I could always just use line out on back of the pc. Just wanted to be sure about using the Carbon correctly. Thanks guys!


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Because there is such a thing as a burn in CD?
> ...




Good to know...I hate it when I get "gaussy" (ouch!)


----------



## f0oster

I've had the amp on for the last 3 days now, while I'm at the PC I use it, while I'm not I leave it on and playing. There has been some changes (or my hearing and preferences are adjusting) from when I turned it on the first time. I was really impressed when I first turned her on, but things are just getting better.
  
 IMO, with a slight dampening and rolling of the highs, as well as some seriously nice bass impact with this amp, the amp has a slightly warm, less forward sound. It is very musical and pleasant to listen to.
  
 To expand further, after listening to a friends HD800's on and off for a few hours yesterday and despite my expectations -- I've sampled the HD800 many times before, and they've usually always come off as sounding flat and bright, overall very fatiguing -- they sounded absolutely amazing. Subtle changes can make such a big difference. The HD800 has never been a headphone that I enjoyed listening to. I may be buying a pair after all...


----------



## mandrake50

reddog said:


> It should not matter, if worried you can just turn the volume, to the 11 a clock position and let your amp burn in.


 

 Or just listen to the thing and enjoy it. If something is really going to change, you will never know it if you don't spend time getting your ears/brain accustomed to the sound along the way.
  
 Why not just follow your normal listening schedule and see what happens? Why the hurry and missing all of the enjoyment along the way.
  
 Really, if you just plug it in and run it for 150 hours accepting that it is going to improve... how will you ever know that you could be wrong?.. Or right??


----------



## Youth

f0oster said:


> I was really impressed when I first turned her on, but things are just getting better.


 
  
 Sounds lovely


----------



## grizzlybeast

lajosthehun said:


> You really missing out, I was in that boat for about 2 weeks, and frankly I wasn't impressed with the LC as an SE amp, my Ican was easily besting it for less than half the price. Once I got my balanced cable for my Z7 things changed quite a bit. It's clear this amp was made for balanced use only, and that's the only way i would recommend to use it in a long term as well. As always YMMV.


 
 Different headphones will have different results. I have all of the balanced gear incoming but fwiw if anyone only has SE Audeze LCD2.1  this does a great job of driving them and better than my SE infinity hp out.


----------



## f0oster

aamefford said:


> Worth noting here, or repeating here - Don't plug a single ended headphone into the 1/4" TRS jack while a balanced headphone is plugged into the 4 pin XLR jack.  You run the risk of shorting out the amp.  This was noted a while back in one of the multitude of Carbon threads.


 
 After reading that post I had originally assumed it was not intended to output to both balanced and SE jacks at the same time -- however, I took a chance and tested it yesterday as I stated a few posts above... and no problems here at all, it does indeed output to both and sounds great. I didn't short out the amp and I can't possibly imagine how/why that would happen, there simply is no way the amp would have make it to production if that happened IMO.


----------



## zachawry

This is awful! Truly horrendous! I am so disappointed in my Carbon! How could Cavalli Audio do this to me!
  
 I was thinking that the LC would satisfy my gear lust, and that I wouldn't be tempted by new amps, but somehow the awesomeness of the LC just makes me want to try more amps to see how they sound. It's like kissing a beautiful girl, but instead of wanting to settle down with that girl, it just makes you want to go kiss all the other beautiful girls. 
  
 Now I want to get a Mjolnir 2 and start tube-rolling. But I also want to spend all day listening to my Carbon! I'm so confused.....


----------



## rollinbr

f0oster said:


> After reading that post I had originally assumed it was not intended to output to both balanced and SE jacks at the same time -- however, I took a chance and tested it yesterday as I stated a few posts above... and no problems here at all, it does indeed output to both and sounds great. I didn't short out the amp and I can't possibly imagine how/why that would happen, there simply is no way the amp would have make it to production if that happened IMO.


 
 As I recall what the person did it is he plugged in an XLR to SE adapter into the SE output. It was just the adapter and there was no headphone/load connected when it was plugged in. I seem to also recall Stillhart mentioning that while he had the pre-production LC he had plugged in both balanced and SE headphones with no issues.
  
 I currently have the OPPO PM-3 plugged in the RSA/Kobiconn output and plugged in my Omni (Walnut) with XLR to SE adapter into the SE output with no issues. Have output to both headphones. And no I'm not gonna be the guinea pig to remove the adapter from the Omni's and plug it in the SE output to see what happens. I'll let Dr. Cavalli comment on what the affect that will have on the amp. My recommendation is don't do it though.
  
 I'm still curious to hear the outcome of that adventure though and if it was just an anomaly or it really is no no to plug in an XLR to SE adapter while using the Balanced output.


----------



## f0oster

rollinbr said:


> As I recall what the person did it is he plugged in an XLR to SE adapter into the SE output. It was just the adapter and there was no headphone/load connected when it was plugged in. I seem to also recall Stillhart mentioning that while he had the pre-production LC he had plugged in both balanced and SE headphones with no issues.
> 
> I currently have the OPPO PM-3 plugged in the RSA/Kobiconn output and plugged in my Omni (Walnut) with XLR to SE adapter into the SE output with no issues. Have output to both headphones. And no I'm not gonna be the guinea pig to remove the adapter from the Omni's and plug it in the SE output to see what happens. I'll let Dr. Cavalli comment on what the affect that will have on the amp. My recommendation is don't do it though.
> 
> I'm still curious to hear the outcome of that adventure though and if it was just an anomaly or it really is no no to plug in an XLR to SE adapter while using the Balanced output.


 
 Ah yep. I see. I don't intend to run any balanced cables through adapters anyway since I have both SE and balanced cables, but to be honest I would expect that there shouldn't be any issues doing that. I am definitely not a master of electronics, but I think that that person was unfortunate enough to have a faulty amp or the adapter wasn't doing it's job properly.
  
 IIRC Alex did respond to the post and stated that it shouldn't have happened -- but I don't even remember what thread it was in now, so I am not going to go looking for it. Hopefully Alex will clear this up for us.
  
 Cheers


----------



## swspiers

zachawry said:


> This is awful! Truly horrendous! I am so disappointed in my Carbon! How could Cavalli Audio do this to me!
> 
> I was thinking that the LC would satisfy my gear lust, and that I wouldn't be tempted by new amps, but somehow the awesomeness of the LC just makes me want to try more amps to see how they sound. It's like kissing a beautiful girl, but instead of wanting to settle down with that girl, it just makes you want to go kiss all the other beautiful girls.
> 
> Now I want to get a Mjolnir 2 and start tube-rolling. But I also want to spend all day listening to my Carbon! I'm so confused.....




Ditto. First amp I've ever tried that CLEARLY sounds different, and better, than any amp I have. But I have my sites on something other than the same old Schiit (I love their products, but I want to play with other stuff. Probably a full sized Cavalli.)


----------



## Stillhart

f0oster said:


> I've had the amp on for the last 3 days now, while I'm at the PC I use it, while I'm not I leave it on and playing. There has been some changes (or my hearing and preferences are adjusting) from when I turned it on the first time. I was really impressed when I first turned her on, but things are just getting better.
> 
> IMO, with a slight dampening and rolling of the highs, as well as some seriously nice bass impact with this amp, the amp has a slightly warm, less forward sound. It is very musical and pleasant to listen to.
> 
> To expand further, after listening to a friends HD800's on and off for a few hours yesterday and despite my expectations -- I've sampled the HD800 many times before, and they've usually always come off as sounding flat and bright, overall very fatiguing -- they sounded absolutely amazing. Subtle changes can make such a big difference. The HD800 has never been a headphone that I enjoyed listening to. I may be buying a pair after all...


 
  
 This is exactly what I was saying about the HD800.  It's a headphone I don't normally like, but it sounds so good with the LC that I'm considering getting one now.
  


zachawry said:


> This is awful! Truly horrendous! I am so disappointed in my Carbon! How could Cavalli Audio do this to me!
> 
> I was thinking that the LC would satisfy my gear lust, and that I wouldn't be tempted by new amps, but somehow the awesomeness of the LC just makes me want to try more amps to see how they sound. It's like kissing a beautiful girl, but instead of wanting to settle down with that girl, it just makes you want to go kiss all the other beautiful girls.
> 
> Now I want to get a Mjolnir 2 and start tube-rolling. But I also want to spend all day listening to my Carbon! I'm so confused.....


 
  
 I can appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think you're going to like the MJ2 much after falling in love with the LC.  It's a very different sound, IMHO.
  


rollinbr said:


> As I recall what the person did it is he plugged in an XLR to SE adapter into the SE output. It was just the adapter and there was no headphone/load connected when it was plugged in. I seem to also recall Stillhart mentioning that while he had the pre-production LC he had plugged in both balanced and SE headphones with no issues.
> 
> I currently have the OPPO PM-3 plugged in the RSA/Kobiconn output and plugged in my Omni (Walnut) with XLR to SE adapter into the SE output with no issues. Have output to both headphones. And no I'm not gonna be the guinea pig to remove the adapter from the Omni's and plug it in the SE output to see what happens. I'll let Dr. Cavalli comment on what the affect that will have on the amp. My recommendation is don't do it though.
> 
> I'm still curious to hear the outcome of that adventure though and if it was just an anomaly or it really is no no to plug in an XLR to SE adapter while using the Balanced output.


 
  
 Yep, I did it with no problems.  I've also left my 1/4" -> XLR plugged in while listening to the XLR output with no problem.  I also swapped my headphone back and forth from the balanced to SE (with adapter) while testing so I could hear the differences.
  
 You really shouldn't be doing these things.  But Cavalli amps are designed to survive these things.  Best practice is not to, but I'd agree that the one that burnt out either had a problem with the amp or a problem with the adapter.


----------



## pippen99

zachawry said:


> This is awful! Truly horrendous! I am so disappointed in my Carbon! How could Cavalli Audio do this to me!
> 
> I was thinking that the LC would satisfy my gear lust, and that I wouldn't be tempted by new amps, but somehow the awesomeness of the LC just makes me want to try more amps to see how they sound. It's like kissing a beautiful girl, but instead of wanting to settle down with that girl, it just makes you want to go kiss all the other beautiful girls.
> 
> Now I want to get a Mjolnir 2 and start tube-rolling. But I also want to spend all day listening to my Carbon! I'm so confused.....


 
 I feel your pain.  I first heard the LC at a meet in April.  I then had the good fortune to have a prototype for a week in September.  My LC was in the first batch shipped so I have had mine for a month.  I love this amp.  Still I could not resist a 6 month old Woo WA5 for a truly ridiculous discount off retail.  It arrives Saturday(FedEx willing).  I swore when I got into this hobby I would have one amp, dac and phone.  Who needs more?  Now I have two amps, two headphones, and one Dac.  It has to end somewhere doesn't it?


----------



## Jozurr

pippen99 said:


> I feel your pain.  I first heard the LC at a meet in April.  I then had the good fortune to have a prototype for a week in September.  My LC was in the first batch shipped so I have had mine for a month.  I love this amp.  Still I could not resist a 6 month old Woo WA5 for a truly ridiculous discount off retail.  It arrives Saturday(FedEx willing).  I swore when I got into this hobby I would have one amp, dac and phone.  Who needs more?  Now I have two amps, two headphones, and one Dac.  It has to end somewhere doesn't it?


 
 I don't think it does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just out of curiosity, how much discount on the WA5 if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## pippen99

jozurr said:


> I don't think it does
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't mind.  PM me


----------



## zachawry

pippen99 said:


> I feel your pain.  I first heard the LC at a meet in April.  I then had the good fortune to have a prototype for a week in September.  My LC was in the first batch shipped so I have had mine for a month.  I love this amp.  Still I could not resist a 6 month old Woo WA5 for a truly ridiculous discount off retail.  It arrives Saturday(FedEx willing).  I swore when I got into this hobby I would have one amp, dac and phone.  Who needs more?  Now I have two amps, two headphones, and one Dac.  It has to end somewhere doesn't it?


 

 Ah, the WA5 is what I was really, really lusting after (next to a Cavalli Glass, but those aren't even in production any more). I'm jealous....


----------



## zachawry

stillhart said:


> I can appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think you're going to like the MJ2 much after falling in love with the LC.  It's a very different sound, IMHO.


 
  
 Well, a different sound is kinda the point 
  
 If it isn't too off-topic, I'd be very curious to hear why you wouldn't recommend the MJ2. PM fine also.


----------



## Stillhart

zachawry said:


> Well, a different sound is kinda the point
> 
> If it isn't too off-topic, I'd be very curious to hear why you wouldn't recommend the MJ2. PM fine also.


 
  
 Oh I wouldn't say that I don't recommend it.  I just think it's a very different sound than the Cavalli stuff.  It's kind of analytical and cold to Cavalli's musical and slightly warm.  If you really like the Cavalli sound, you may find that the Schiit stuff doesn't float your boat as much -- chocolate vs vanilla or whatever.  But by all means, give it a shot; we all hear differently and listening for yourself is the best way to tell what you'll like.


----------



## zachawry

stillhart said:


> Oh I wouldn't say that I don't recommend it.  I just think it's a very different sound than the Cavalli stuff.  It's kind of analytical and cold to Cavalli's musical and slightly warm.  If you really like the Cavalli sound, you may find that the Schiit stuff doesn't float your boat as much -- chocolate vs vanilla or whatever.  But by all means, give it a shot; we all hear differently and listening for yourself is the best way to tell what you'll like.


 

 Funny, given the tubey nature of the amp, I thought it would be even warmer than Cavalli's sound.


----------



## Stillhart

zachawry said:


> Funny, given the tubey nature of the amp, I thought it would be even warmer than Cavalli's sound.


 
  
 Warm for a Schiit amp, perhaps.  *shrug*  Like I said, we all hear differently.


----------



## sheldaze

LC has not stopped my liking the Rag - different sounds, and both good.


----------



## sling5s

Did some comparisons, Audio Gd Dac 19 with Mojo out of LC and HD800.
 The Audio Gd Dac 19 has slightly more body and weight. But the biggest difference is that the Dac 19 is warmer than the Mojo. The Mojo treble is definitely brighter. On some tracks with treble energy, the Mojo makes me cringe. But with the Dac 19, it's there, but it does not make me cringe. The Mojo is supposed to be warmer than the Hugo, hate to imagine how the Hugo is, being more leaner and brighter than the Mojo. To me, the Mojo is still on the bright and cold side, at least with the HD800/LC. 
  The Audio Gd Dac 19 is much better pairing with LC for the HD800. If I had warmer headphones, I would go with the Mojo. (posted also in dac 19 thread).
 The Mojo sounds a clearer and more forward in it's presentation and detail. 
  
  
 As for LC  (balanced) with Mojo vs Mojo SE straight out with HD800, the LC gave the HD800 bass, body, dynamics and soundstage. Straight out of the Mojo, the HD800 sounded clear and clean, but the mids sounded too thin and treble bright. Most (not everyone) on the Mojo thread says how the Mojo is such a great pairing with the HD800, I got to disagree.  Maybe I'm missing something.


----------



## Cardiiiii

sling5s said:


> Did some comparisons, Audio Gd Dac 19 with Mojo out of LC and HD800.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 has slightly more body and weight. But the biggest difference is that the Dac 19 is warmer than the Mojo. The Mojo treble is definitely brighter. On some tracks with treble energy, the Mojo makes me cringe. But with the Dac 19, it's there, but it does not make me cringe. The Mojo is supposed to be warmer than the Hugo, hate to imagine how the Hugo is, being more leaner and brighter than the Mojo. To me, the Mojo is still on the bright and cold side, at least with the HD800/LC.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 is much better pairing with LC for the HD800. If I had warmer headphones, I would go with the Mojo. (posted also in dac 19 thread).
> 
> ...




Adding a Schiit Wyred solved the bright treble for me on the Hugo. The Hugo itself is so detailed and neutral but adding the Wyred really rounded off the rough edges.


----------



## sling5s

cardiiiii said:


> Adding a Schiit Wyred solved the bright treble for me on the Hugo. The Hugo itself is so detailed and neutral but adding the Wyred really rounded off the rough edges.


 

 How significant was the Wyred in rounding off the treble?
 I guess I should research the option if I decide to sell the Dac 19 and just go with the Mojo.


----------



## sheldaze

sling5s said:


> Did some comparisons, Audio Gd Dac 19 with Mojo out of LC and HD800.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 has slightly more body and weight. But the biggest difference is that the Dac 19 is warmer than the Mojo. The Mojo treble is definitely brighter. On some tracks with treble energy, the Mojo makes me cringe. But with the Dac 19, it's there, but it does not make me cringe. The Mojo is supposed to be warmer than the Hugo, hate to imagine how the Hugo is, being more leaner and brighter than the Mojo. To me, the Mojo is still on the bright and cold side, at least with the HD800/LC.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 is much better pairing with LC for the HD800. If I had warmer headphones, I would go with the Mojo. (posted also in dac 19 thread).
> The Mojo sounds a clearer and more forward in it's presentation and detail.
> ...


 
 I'll give you my inputs on Monday, when my HD800 arrives. I would though be comparing Gungnir Multibit, Mojo, and Pono.
 And I would be bypassing USB, using a DAP to feed both Gungnir and Mojo via COAX. Pono is of course its own DAP, so it would feed LC via line output.


----------



## doctorjazz

I use the Pono to feed my amps (Pono and ZOTL) quite a bit, but drive the HE-1000, or, at present, the acs Encore (using single ended LC, sounds great). Curious on your take with the Senns.


----------



## Burtron5

First impressions on the Liquid Carbon;
  
 Thanks to the wait, I had my power cable, balanced in, balanced to headphone, and even a nice fresh set of rubber feet
 at the ready. Got back from our Christmas trip and there it was! Sitting on the kitchen table crying; "Open me!"
  
 It only took minutes to unpack, situate and plug in the Cavalli to the Emotiva DC-1, flip the power on and "Voila!" music!
  
 But wait...not just music, rich, deep, wide, powerful detailed music with a punch!  This compared very favorably against the JDS Labs
 Element that was my earlier DAC/Amp. So glad, cuz it's 3x the cost and you never know just how these things will work out.
  
 I know it's day 2 and that leaves much time to burn in and mellow, deepen, etc.
  
 Happy Happy, thinking Cable Company next to tryout superior headphones.
  
 Currently working with HE400s, HD600, HD700.
  
 Thinking HE1000 vs. HE-X, vs. anax mod HD800. Might have to hold up a bank to get there, but.....


----------



## Mattyhew

Hello all, I'm about 50 hours into the burn in process, wanted to make a quick post as my impressions seems to differ greatly from others.
  
 Before I begin the headphones im using are the Fostex TH900s which are notoriously easy to drive and even on the low gain setting never get above the 10 o'clock mark. The amp is being run in single ended mode both input and output.
  
 Compared with other amps I have tried at meets (Hugo/V200/WA6 to name a few), as well as A/Bing my Gilmore Lite (my previous amp) out of my dB Labs Tranq DAC, the Bass from the Carbon is severely anaemic. Messing around with an EQ suggests this is somewhere in the region of a -10 dB EQ to all freq below 80hz. 
  
 I had always planned to get my TH900s changed to a balanced connector however such a drastic sound signature difference is giving me concern considering the comments about not much changing during burn in.
  
 Balanced operation should be able to supply more power, however the effect of power on the TH900s is usually that it tightens up the otherwise sloppy bass.
  
 Could this all be being caused by SE operation?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

mattyhew said:


> Hello all, I'm about 50 hours into the burn in process, wanted to make a quick post as my impressions seems to differ greatly from others.
> 
> Before I begin the headphones im using are the Fostex TH900s which are notoriously easy to drive and even on the low gain setting never get above the 10 o'clock mark. The amp is being run in single ended mode both input and output.
> 
> ...





What are you using as a source?


----------



## Mattyhew

wildcatsare1 said:


> What are you using as a source?


 
  
 So the A/B setups that i'm comparing are.
  
 Tidal/Foobar (FLAC) > dB Audiolabs Tranq DAC (USB) > Gilmore Lite (RCA) > TH900s
  
  
 Tidal/Foobar (FLAC) > dB Audiolabs Tranq DAC (USB) > Liquid Carbon > TH900s
  
 Nothing but the amp is changing, same cables etc.
  
 EDIT: Repeated the test with a range of headphones i had available to me: Martin Logan Mikros 90 (portable), FLC FLC8 (IEM), ATH-AD2000s. 
  
 All displayed a similar phenomenon.


----------



## sheldaze

10 decibels seems like a lot! I would say to continue to burn-in, as long as you don't hear any odd sounds, distortion, buzzes, etc. As long as the only issue is the bass is not filled in.
  
 50 hours burn-in was _not_ enough for me. But it wasn't like bass was _that_ far off. I kept A/B comparing between Liquid Carbon and Ragnarok, and found the Ragnarok had significantly more bass, noticeably more bass, at 50 hours of burn-in on the Carbon. But I still do not think it was 10 decibels.
  
 150 hours in, I really don't feel the need to A/B - the Carbon just sounds right. And perhaps contact Cavalli on Monday, if it still sounds really far off.


----------



## stjj89

mattyhew said:


> Hello all, I'm about 50 hours into the burn in process, wanted to make a quick post as my impressions seems to differ greatly from others.
> 
> Before I begin the headphones im using are the Fostex TH900s which are notoriously easy to drive and even on the low gain setting never get above the 10 o'clock mark. The amp is being run in single ended mode both input and output.
> 
> ...




I'm running my modded th900 balanced out of a dac19 and LC. I'll report back after burn in is complete on Monday. However, my initial impressions were that it sounded kinda bright and aggressive without the added bass authority that the was hoping for. On my bifrost-LC-he560 setup, however, the bass is very prominent, tight, and punchy. Might be a synergy thing.


----------



## coastal1

I don't know, there's a lot of variables between my setups and yours but I can say that the LC -> Sennhiser HD650 w/ balanced cable had great bass. I haven't A/B'd it to the very popular Bottlehead Crack + Speedball w/ good tubes that I also have and that are highly recommended and that I've enjoyed, but my first impression was that the LC had a stronger bass, definitely seemed more defined/note separation/imaging, compared to my familiarity with the Crack.

I brierly switched to SE adapter and volume was (obviously) noticeably lower, but once I turned the volume up didn't notice as big of a drop in SQ as I thought there'd be, though I didn't listen to SE very long



mattyhew said:


> Hello all, I'm about 50 hours into the burn in process, wanted to make a quick post as my impressions seems to differ greatly from others.
> 
> Before I begin the headphones im using are the Fostex TH900s which are notoriously easy to drive and even on the low gain setting never get above the 10 o'clock mark. The amp is being run in single ended mode both input and output.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mattyhew

sheldaze said:


> 10 decibels seems like a lot! I would say to continue to burn-in, as long as you don't hear any odd sounds, distortion, buzzes, etc. As long as the only issue is the bass is not filled in.
> 
> 50 hours burn-in was _not_ enough for me. But it wasn't like bass was _that_ far off. I kept A/B comparing between Liquid Carbon and Ragnarok, and found the Ragnarok had significantly more bass, noticeably more bass, at 50 hours of burn-in on the Carbon. But I still do not think it was 10 decibels.
> 
> 150 hours in, I really don't feel the need to A/B - the Carbon just sounds right. And perhaps contact Cavalli on Monday, if it still sounds really far off.


 
  
 Based on what EQ i was using i would dare to say 10 dB was being conservative.
  
 I plan to finish letting the LC burn in before I make my conclusion and if it was simply that, it will have certainly made me a believer, however it was so prominent that i was surprised that i hadnt seen it commented on.


----------



## sheldaze

Errr...just connected my TH-X00. I'm _not_ happy with it...but think I'll do a little more digging.
 In truth, I think I may be using this in the worst possible way to test the Fostex headphones:
  

single-ended input (must be summed)
single-ended output (is there an EE in the house - must it be summed again?)
very low impedance headphone (does anyone know the single-ended output impedance)


----------



## Stillhart

sling5s said:


> Did some comparisons, Audio Gd Dac 19 with Mojo out of LC and HD800.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 has slightly more body and weight. But the biggest difference is that the Dac 19 is warmer than the Mojo. The Mojo treble is definitely brighter. On some tracks with treble energy, the Mojo makes me cringe. But with the Dac 19, it's there, but it does not make me cringe. The Mojo is supposed to be warmer than the Hugo, hate to imagine how the Hugo is, being more leaner and brighter than the Mojo. To me, the Mojo is still on the bright and cold side, at least with the HD800/LC.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 is much better pairing with LC for the HD800. If I had warmer headphones, I would go with the Mojo. (posted also in dac 19 thread).
> The Mojo sounds a clearer and more forward in it's presentation and detail.
> ...







cardiiiii said:


> Adding a Schiit Wyred solved the bright treble for me on the Hugo. The Hugo itself is so detailed and neutral but adding the Wyred really rounded off the rough edges.




The first time I ever listened to the HD800 was through a Chord Hugo. It was literally painfully bright. I took those things off within seconds and it soured me on that headphone for a long time. 

Unless the Mojo is significantly warmer than the Hugo, I can't imagine I'd love the pairing. 

BTW, doesn't the Hugo run off battery even when plugged in? Seems weird that the Wyrd would do anything for it...


----------



## santacore

I bought my LC to pair with my TH900's as a bed side rig. After burn in I feel like the LC is a great amp, but not the perfect match with the TH900's. Since those are the only phones I can use in my bedroom setup, I will probably search for a different amp or go back to my Bryston. Like Mattyhew, I felt the bass control and punch to be slightly lacking with the TH900's. Besides the low end control, the amp sounds wonderful just like I remember.


----------



## Hansotek

sheldaze said:


> Errr...just connected my TH-X00. I'm _not_ happy with it...but think I'll do a little more digging.
> In truth, I think I may be using this in the worst possible way to test the Fostex headphones:
> 
> 
> ...



I haven't tried the two together yet, but I'm not exactly shocked. Might be a little too much of a good thing pairing these two together. So far the TH-X00 seems to like amps that are of the brightish neutral variety. It loved my Burson HA-160 and the Creative X7. It wasn't terribly fond of my Audio-GD Master 9. As far as amping goes, it appears to be the anti-HD800 in practice.


----------



## NiceGuyTom

I paid for my LC + shipping in full on the 8th of this month and Fedex status is still pending...  At one point it said by the end of the day for the 19th but then switched back to Pending.  Been chatting with Cavalli but still going a little crazy waiting.


----------



## AxelCloris

niceguytom said:


> I paid for my LC + shipping in full on the 8th of this month and Fedex status is still pending...  At one point it said by the end of the day for the 19th but then switched back to Pending.  Been chatting with Cavalli but still going a little crazy waiting.


 
  
 Paid in April, received in December. Patience, young padawan.


----------



## Mattyhew

hansotek said:


> I haven't tried the two together yet, but I'm not exactly shocked. Might be a little too much of a good thing pairing these two together. So far the TH-X00 seems to like amps that are of the brightish neutral variety. It loved my Burson HA-160 and the Creative X7. It wasn't terribly fond of my Audio-GD Master 9. As far as amping goes, it appears to be the anti-HD800 in practice.


 
  
 I've heard bad pairings before but an amp being unable to drive the low end as well as a phone? Especially as I have had a similar experience with all my cans. 
  
 After most people have done it would be interesting to see if there is any pattern in the serial numbers, from what i understand #0 to #499 should be identical correct?
  
 If it is simply a synergy problem then I guess my search for my perfect amp will have to continue as I dont think ill be replacing my TH900s anytime soon.


----------



## Hansotek

mattyhew said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't tried the two together yet, but I'm not exactly shocked. Might be a little too much of a good thing pairing these two together. So far the TH-X00 seems to like amps that are of the brightish neutral variety. It loved my Burson HA-160 and the Creative X7. It wasn't terribly fond of my Audio-GD Master 9. As far as amping goes, it appears to be the anti-HD800 in practice.
> ...




My comment was related specifically to the TH-X00. It was also kinda speculative. Don't read too much into it. Who knows? I might be gushing about it on Tuesday when I come home to a unit with 160 hours on it.

FWIW, I would think the TH600 and TH900 would do better with it, adding a little extra body to the mids and calming the peakey treble a little bit. But that's just a guess. You should let it burn in fully before making your final judgement.


----------



## Mattyhew

hansotek said:


> My comment was related specifically to the TH-X00. It was also kinda speculative. Don't read too much into it. Who knows? I might be gushing about it on Tuesday when I come home to a unit with 160 hours on it.
> 
> FWIW, I would think the TH600 and TH900 would do better with it, adding a little extra body to the mids and calming the peakey treble a little bit. But that's just a guess. You should let it burn in fully before making your final judgement.


 
  
 I had considered getting an amp that filled in the mids however I felt like that might just be correcting what I like about the TH-900s sound sig. 
  
 I just did a quick test and using the following setup the bass was present.
  
 One plus one (jack 3.5mm) > LC (3.5mm jack) > TH900s 
  
 Obviously it sounded a little muddy as you would expect using a phone as a source, but the bass was present. Now I need to find my 3.5mm to RCA cable to see if running my DAC into the 3.5mm jack will bring back the low end.
  
 If that doesn't work then it points to there being a synergy problem between my DAC and the LC. What would cause 2 products that are largely neutral (not -10db in the bass) to produce a sound that was lacking in bass so dramatically?


----------



## Dave74

sling5s said:


> Did some comparisons, Audio Gd Dac 19 with Mojo out of LC and HD800.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 has slightly more body and weight. But the biggest difference is that the Dac 19 is warmer than the Mojo. The Mojo treble is definitely brighter. On some tracks with treble energy, the Mojo makes me cringe. But with the Dac 19, it's there, but it does not make me cringe. The Mojo is supposed to be warmer than the Hugo, hate to imagine how the Hugo is, being more leaner and brighter than the Mojo. To me, the Mojo is still on the bright and cold side, at least with the HD800/LC.
> The Audio Gd Dac 19 is much better pairing with LC for the HD800. If I had warmer headphones, I would go with the Mojo. (posted also in dac 19 thread).
> The Mojo sounds a clearer and more forward in it's presentation and detail.
> ...


 

 This is why I ended up ordering a pair of Nighthawks and HD650s with a balanced cable, and I'm hoping to receive both this week
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I noticed Amazon.ca had the HD800 on for $1200CND (good price considering the CND$) before Christmas and I really *REALLY* wanted to pull the trigger, but I was a little worried that I would find the Hugo>LC>HD800 combo too bright and fatiguing as sometimes I already feel like adding more warmth to the HE-500... Also, if I ordered the HD800 I would not have been able to have ordered the HD650 and Nighthawks.
  
 I do find the Hugo/Mojo can seem a little shy on sub bass depending on the HP pairing which is also why I want to try the Nighthawks.  I also find some of my HP sound better on Hugo and some better on Mojo, I guess this is why most people try to find the right amp/dac/hp combo for their own preference. 
  
 I am still LOVING the Hugo>LC>HE-500 combo, besides the weight on my neck when worn for many hours a day (thanks LC lol).   I just wanted a warmer sig. for different times of the day, mainly for when I am tired.


----------



## Mattyhew

The plot thickens... I Dug my X-Fi Titanium HD Soundcard out and it works splendidly, bass is deep, force full but tight. like a TH900 should be. The noise floor is also a lot lower, whereas from my Tranq DAC i couldnt get it much past 10 o'clock without some hissing from the T-HD its silent till about 2 o'clock (volume is the same at 10 o'clock for both).
  
 Why would a DAC that I've used with many other amplifiers have a problem feeding the LC? What is special about the LC?
  
 Now i have the LC working i have a hard decision as i love the amp but i was also quite fond of my DAC and would be pained to lose it so if anyone has any ideas that would be great .
  
 Any suggestions for a balanced/unbalanced DAC that pairs well with the LC?


----------



## Hansotek

dave74 said:


> This is why I ended up ordering a pair of Nighthawks and HD650s with a balanced cable, and I'm hoping to receive both this week
> 
> I noticed Amazon.ca had the HD800 on for $1200CND (good price considering the CND$) before Christmas and I really *REALLY* wanted to pull the trigger, but I was a little worried that I would find the Hugo>LC>HD800 combo too bright and fatiguing as sometimes I already feel like adding more warmth to the HE-500... Also, if I ordered the HD800 I would not have been able to have ordered the HD650 and Nighthawks.
> 
> ...




I also really liked the LC with the HE500 right out of the box. I read on another tread that you can email HiFiMAN customer service and order an HE560 replacement headband for $50 and install it right on your HE500.


----------



## Stillhart

niceguytom said:


> I paid for my LC + shipping in full on the 8th of this month and Fedex status is still pending...  At one point it said by the end of the day for the 19th but then switched back to Pending.  Been chatting with Cavalli but still going a little crazy waiting.


 
  
 There are two other LC threads for talking about shipping updates.  I suggest we keep this one strictly about impressions.
  


dave74 said:


> This is why I ended up ordering a pair of Nighthawks and HD650s with a balanced cable, and I'm hoping to receive both this week
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you like the Nighthawk and HD650, two of the darkest headphones around, I suspect you'll find the HD800 too bright with ANYTHING.
  


mattyhew said:


> The plot thickens... I Dug my X-Fi Titanium HD Soundcard out and it works splendidly, bass is deep, force full but tight. like a TH900 should be. The noise floor is also a lot lower, whereas from my Tranq DAC i couldnt get it much past 10 o'clock without some hissing from the T-HD its silent till about 2 o'clock (volume is the same at 10 o'clock for both).
> 
> Why would a DAC that I've used with many other amplifiers have a problem feeding the LC? What is special about the LC?
> 
> ...


 
  
 He's 1,422 posts on the subject of DAC pairings with the LC:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
  
 Personally, I suggest the Audio-GD DAC-19.  You will definitely not notice bass lacking.  Might be too warm for the TH-xxx series, which I find way too bassy to begin with, but YMMV of course.


----------



## Mattyhew

stillhart said:


> He's 1,422 posts on the subject of DAC pairings with the LC:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go
> 
> Personally, I suggest the Audio-GD DAC-19.  You will definitely not notice bass lacking.  Might be too warm for the TH-xxx series, which I find way too bassy to begin with, but YMMV of course.


 
  
 Haha, thanks for this. I've tried to convince myself that I dont need the bass but I'm a sucker for the boom bap.
  
 Still curious about what might be causing the problem between my DAC and the LC. Link for any kind citizen that knows more than i do and might be able to shed some light http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/da-converters/.
  
 Could this have something to do with it? (from the spec page)

Output voltage greater than 2.0 volts
Output impedance less than 50 ohms


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> ...snip...
> 
> Personally, I suggest the Audio-GD DAC-19.  You will definitely not notice bass lacking.  Might be too warm for the TH-xxx series, which I find way too bassy to begin with, but YMMV of course.


 
 I am currently also using this combo.  I really like it.  I suspect the Dac-19 may be artificially "strong" on the bass, or not - it is my sole reference point with R2R dacs (save for Yggy at a couple of meets, on unfamiliar rigs).  I've heard a variety DS dacs (all in the ~$1000+/- range, and a couple of higher end ones), which all sounded relatively similar.  Anyway, killer pairing.
  
 On a side note, I've snagged a Liquid Crimson which should arrive next week, depending on holiday shipping.  As much as I hate to do so, I may set my Carbon free in the FS section in order to pick up another pair of headphones.  We'll see on that though.  The Carbon is really, really good, but not so portable.  If the Crimson essentially makes the Carbon redundant....


----------



## AxelCloris

aamefford said:


> I am currently also using this combo.  I really like it.  I suspect the Dac-19 may be artificially "strong" on the bass, or not - it is my sole reference point with R2R dacs (save for Yggy at a couple of meets, on unfamiliar rigs).  I've heard a variety DS dacs (all in the ~$1000+/- range, and a couple of higher end ones), which all sounded relatively similar.  Anyway, killer pairing.
> 
> On a side note, I've snagged a Liquid Crimson which should arrive next week, depending on holiday shipping.  As much as I hate to do so, I may set my Carbon free in the FS section in order to pick up another pair of headphones.  We'll see on that though.  The Carbon is really, really good, but not so portable.  If the Crimson essentially makes the Carbon redundant....


 
  
 You're in for a treat, the Crimson is killer. Yes, it outperforms the LC. I'd say hang on to the Carbon for an office or secondary setup if you're able because the LC is still a damned fine amp to have around.


----------



## aamefford

axelcloris said:


> You're in for a treat, the Crimson is killer. Yes, it outperforms the LC. I'd say hang on to the Carbon for an office or secondary setup if you're able because the LC is still a damned fine amp to have around.


 

 Nice to hear!  I have yet to hear a negative for the Crimson.  I'll try and keep the Carbon, it is really a wonderful amp, given the size.  There is a pair of Ether or Ether C's calling my name though....


----------



## AxelCloris

aamefford said:


> Nice to hear!  I have yet to hear a negative for the Crimson.  I'll try and keep the Carbon, it is really a wonderful amp, given the size.  There is a pair of Ether or Ether C's calling my name though....


 
  
 The negative is the stock tube. It's not bad by any definition, but it's a pretty basic tube that won't let the amp really show off its potential. Everything I've read about it indicates that the Crimson improves greatly with a swap, but I've only heard it in meet environments. You're probably best off buying a quality tube, installing it, and then leaving it alone. Then move the Carbon to another room and you'll be able to enjoy your new Ether (C) everywhere.


----------



## aamefford

I got to hear @dusk's Crimson, and @jude's Carbon proto and Ether's at a meet.  I remember really liking the Crimson, and of course loved the Carbon and Ether.  As to the tubes, I read the stock Genelec is good, and that there is a particular Telefunken that is excellent.  I'll probably track a couple of those down (one for spare), and call it good.
  
 My suspicion is that I will find the Crimson better than the Carbon.  I also suspect that the Carbon will be much closer to the Crimson than the price difference would have one think.


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> I got to hear @dusk's Crimson, and @jude's Carbon proto and Ether's at a meet.  I remember really liking the Crimson, and of course loved the Carbon and Ether.  As to the tubes, I read the stock Genelec is good, and that there is a particular Telefunken that is excellent.  I'll probably track a couple of those down (one for spare), and call it good.
> 
> My suspicion is that I will find the Crimson better than the Carbon.  I also suspect that the Carbon will be much closer to the Crimson than the price difference would have one think.


----------



## Dave74

hansotek said:


> I also really liked the LC with the HE500 right out of the box. I read on another tread that you can email HiFiMAN customer service and order an HE560 replacement headband for $50 and install it right on your HE500.


 
 Thanks.  I don't really find the headband itself too uncomfortable though... It is more just the weight (compression of neck) of the HE-500... And now with the LC I can end up using this combo for 5-8 hours in a day sometimes lol. This really noticeable when I move or tilt my head, it just seems to almost wants to flop over from the extra weight.  
  


stillhart said:


> There are two other LC threads for talking about shipping updates.  I suggest we keep this one strictly about impressions.
> 
> 
> *If you like the Nighthawk and HD650, two of the darkest headphones around, I suspect you'll find the HD800 too bright with ANYTHING.*
> ...


 
 True.. I think another example of this is I really never enjoyed my SE-846 until I paired them with my Mojo, which really seamed to add some mid bass/warmth too them. Up until the Mojo I did not think they were worth the purchase, now I really enjoy this combo.  
 So yes, I would think the HD800 would be too bright for me,* BUT I have not heard the HD650/Nighthawk yet.* I do find the HE-500 is as bright as I really can enjoy for me personally, and at times I would like slightly darker/warmer.  But I do not want BLOATED uncontrolled bass either and I'm hoping these will provide a rich, relaxing sound sig.


----------



## dusk

aamefford said:


> I got to hear @dusk's Crimson, and @jude's Carbon proto and Ether's at a meet.  I remember really liking the Crimson, and of course loved the Carbon and Ether.  As to the tubes, I read the stock Genelec is good, and that there is a particular Telefunken that is excellent.  I'll probably track a couple of those down (one for spare), and call it good.
> 
> My suspicion is that I will find the Crimson better than the Carbon.  I also suspect that the Carbon will be much closer to the Crimson than the price difference would have one think.


 
 if you were only going to buy one more amp for the rest of your life... grab the crimson.. but, I don't think that's the case. 
  
 I would get the carbon (especially if you're grabbing ethers), which will give you the freedom to try a bunch of other gear... crimson will lock you in with its price.. and difficulty selling in the future.
  
 I love my carbon, and will be grabbing some Ethers... altho I am debating selling it already to consolidate and get an all in one interface from Prism Sound.


----------



## Hansotek

aamefford said:


> I got to hear @dusk
> 's Crimson, and @jude
> 's Carbon proto and Ether's at a meet.  I remember really liking the Crimson, and of course loved the Carbon and Ether.  As to the tubes, I read the stock Genelec is good, and that there is a particular Telefunken that is excellent.  I'll probably track a couple of those down (one for spare), and call it good.
> 
> My suspicion is that I will find the Crimson better than the Carbon.  I also suspect that the Carbon will be much closer to the Crimson than the price difference would have one think.



The difference is pretty significant, IMO, and that is in no way a knock to the Carbon! The Crimson is an unshakable beauty. An absolute work of art.

As for tubes, the stock Gold Lion is pretty good. Certainly a great value. However, there are several options available that should really knock your socks off. 

I really like the '62 and '63 Dario Miniwatt 188CC tubes from the Philips Harleen, Holland factory. They are regarded by many to have the best bass of all 6922-type tubes. They are extremely exciting and dynamic sounding with lovely vocals and great impact.

The late 60's Telefunken E88CC tubes from Ulm, Germany are the ticket if you want maximum smoothness and soft, sweet mids. I've always found this tube to be a great combo with the HD800. I believe there is also a 188CC version available that is ultra rare and ultra expensive ($450 IRRC), but is supposed to be one of the best 6922-type tubes ever made.

I also know that the Russian made '74 Reflektor with the single wire getter post is often referred to as the "Holy Grail" of 6922-type tubes. I know it came out as grand champion of rb2013's massive 6922 shootout. I have not tried it personally, but Bob is a pretty reputable subject matter expert on these tubes. I believe this one is notable for being extremely airy and spacious.

Rb2013's tube shootout and the Schiit Lyr tube rollers thread are particularly good sources of info on tubes of this type, if you are looking to do more research.

Congrats on the Crimson!


----------



## Cardiiiii

sling5s said:


> How significant was the Wyred in rounding off the treble?
> I guess I should research the option if I decide to sell the Dac 19 and just go with the Mojo.


 
  
 I wouldn't say it completely transformed the Hugo, but it definitely took it a notch up. Worth every penny of the $100 asking price. Think of it like putting on a tie with a suit, it completes the look. So the best way to describe it would be to say the Wyrd completes the Hugo by smoothing out the rough edges with the treble. Mind you, a bad recording is still a bad recording, but on most others, especially my mp3s on iTunes, it made a massive difference.


----------



## f0oster

I am now the proud owner of a pair of HD800's. Never thought I'd see the day I'd buy a pair of these -- for the most part, I have really never liked them much at all until I sampled them one night with the Liquid Carbon.  
  
 I'm blown away really, I had expected the Liquid Carbon to be good, but it's much better than I expected. A great buy for $599. It wipes the floor with the HeadRoom Max '05, IMO, which retailed at about $1600 USD 9-10 years ago.
  
 It's edging closer and closer to the sound signature I crave. TBH, It is not like most SS amps I've heard. Perhaps the Liquid Crimson is on the horizon for the future...


----------



## LajostheHun

mattyhew said:


> Based on what EQ i was using i would dare to say 10 dB was being conservative.
> 
> I plan to finish letting the LC burn in before I make my conclusion and if it was simply that, it will have certainly made me a believer, however it was so prominent that i was surprised that i hadnt seen it commented on.


 You haven't seen it because it's not typical, nor desirable and no amount of burn in could fix something like that.
Don't fall for the myth. If there is that much of a deviation from the signal it's clearly defective. Yes the SE has less power but it's FR response measured flat by another user, nor would any competent designer/engineer would shoot for anything else regardless of operation mode. I would contact Cavalli on this.

Edit: I see you have changed things around, so it is maybe with the source, but like you I'm baffled how a DAC could make that much quantifiable difference, when supplying voltage to a certain amp.
The only thing I can think is the amp's input impedance, but it's a pure speculation at this point.
BTW I can recommend the Z DAC from Parasound which has balanced and SE outputs, no FR anomalies there with that DAC .


----------



## musiclvr

f0oster said:


> I am now the proud owner of a pair of HD800's. Never thought I'd see the day I'd buy a pair of these -- for the most part, I have really never liked them much at all until I sampled them one night with the Liquid Carbon.
> 
> I'm blown away really, I had expected the Liquid Carbon to be good, but it's much better than I expected. A great buy for $599. It wipes the floor with the HeadRoom Max '05, IMO, which retailed at about $1600 USD 9-10 years ago.
> 
> It's edging closer and closer to the sound signature I crave. TBH, It is not like most SS amps I've heard. Perhaps the Liquid Crimson is on the horizon for the future...



I'm really happy to hear that @ f0oster ! I am really considering the purchase of the HD800 S and am glad to hear that the LC is synergistic with it. I am going to a Head-if meet in Phoenix, AZ and am going to hopefully hear the HD800 in SE termination paired with the LC.


----------



## Shini44

f0oster said:


> I am now the proud owner of a pair of HD800's. Never thought I'd see the day I'd buy a pair of these -- for the most part, I have really never liked them much at all until I sampled them one night with the Liquid Carbon.
> 
> I'm blown away really, I had expected the Liquid Carbon to be good, but it's much better than I expected. A great buy for $599. It wipes the floor with the HeadRoom Max '05, IMO, which retailed at about $1600 USD 9-10 years ago.
> 
> It's edging closer and closer to the sound signature I crave. TBH, It is not like most SS amps I've heard. Perhaps the Liquid Crimson is on the horizon for the future...


 
 Waiting for the early and later impressions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i heard that this model got better bass since it goes tad deeper, and the treble got more refined.


----------



## bearFNF

f0oster said:


> I am now the proud owner of a pair of HD800's. Never thought I'd see the day I'd buy a pair of these -- for the most part, I have really never liked them much at all until I sampled them one night with the Liquid Carbon.


 
 You are talking "HD800" and not "HD800 S" right?


----------



## f0oster

shini44 said:


> Waiting for the early and later impressions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just to clarify, it is the HD800, not the HD800s, sorry if that was confusing!


bearfnf said:


> You are talking "HD800" and not "HD800 S" right?


 
 Yeah, the HD800.


----------



## bearFNF

Wish they would name the new one something else, its gonna get real confusing real quick...


----------



## Hansotek

bearfnf said:


> Wish they would name the new one something else, its gonna get real confusing real quick... :confused_face:



Yeah, I mean they only had 25 other letters to choose from... (Well, maybe 24... The HD800O would be both confusing and visually repulsive as a name.) Can we all agree to stop using "S" please?


----------



## sheldaze

hansotek said:


> Yeah, I mean they only had 25 other letters to choose from... (Well, maybe 24... The HD800O would be both confusing and visually repulsive as a name.) Can we all agree to stop using "S" please?


 
 Any suggestion?
 I know when referencing the HE-400S (with similar naming issue) people often call it the 2015 release. Could you say HD800S 2015 update? Kinda long though...


----------



## Mattyhew

sheldaze said:


> Any suggestion?
> I know when referencing the HE-400S (with similar naming issue) people often call it the 2015 release. Could you say HD800S 2015 update? Kinda long though...


 
  
 Im much more in favour of the HD80# (801, 802 etc.) naming scheme, not like there will be 100 revisions.


----------



## sahmen

sheldaze said:


> Any suggestion?
> I know when referencing the HE-400S (with similar naming issue) people often call it the 2015 release. Could you say HD800S 2015 update? Kinda long though...


 
 HD800SE (for special Ed)?
  
 HD800 Gen 2?


----------



## Hansotek

sheldaze said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I mean they only had 25 other letters to choose from... (Well, maybe 24... The HD800O would be both confusing and visually repulsive as a name.) Can we all agree to stop using "S" please?
> ...



HD800i, HD800e, HD800X... Take your pick. SE, LE, whatever. If it needs further explanation (i.e. "The 2015 release") the naming convention has failed at its one and only job. "S" is just bad practice.


----------



## Youth

I personally don't find it hard to tell the difference between HD800S and HD800's.


----------



## Hansotek

youth said:


> I personally don't find it hard to tell the difference between HD800S and HD800's.



Google does.


----------



## swspiers

hansotek said:


> youth said:
> 
> 
> > I personally don't find it hard to tell the difference between HD800S and HD800's.
> ...




Now I get your point


----------



## Shini44

my Chord Hugo TT is on the way, i might have enough time to test it before my LC arrives, i wonder how will the LC pair with the Hugo TT 
  
 yet not sure when will my LC start moving, stuck with "label created" since the 16th of December........ T_T
  
  
 will post my impression one day in the future...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hey Guys, need a little help. I thought my iFi Nano iDSD would be a nice DAC until I get ready to upgrade. Well it doesn't play nice with my iPhone or iPad, my main sources for my bedroom system. 

Any recommendations on an inexpensive, small in form DAC the works with the Apple Stuff? Or any tricks for getting the Nano to work consistently?


----------



## Stillhart

musiclvr said:


> I'm really happy to hear that @ f0oster ! I am really considering the purchase of the HD800 S and am glad to hear that the LC is synergistic with it. I am going to a Head-if meet in Phoenix, AZ and am going to hopefully hear the HD800 in SE termination paired with the LC.


 
  
 Just FYI, the HD800 really needs power to sound its best.  You're not going to be doing it any favors using it SE out of the LC (the SE port has 1/4 the power of the balanced).  If you have the opportunity, I highly suggest using a balanced cable for this particular test.


----------



## mscott58

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey Guys, need a little help. I thought my iFi Nano iDSD would be a nice DAC until I get ready to upgrade. Well it doesn't play nice with my iPhone or iPad, my main sources for my bedroom system.
> 
> Any recommendations on an inexpensive, small in form DAC the works with the Apple Stuff? Or any tricks for getting the Nano to work consistently?


 
 The Chord Mojo is awesome and pairs very well with the LC, and works with the Apple stuff, as long as you have a CCK or equivalent. Also has the benefit of being portable as well! Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey Guys, need a little help. I thought my iFi Nano iDSD would be a nice DAC until I get ready to upgrade. Well it doesn't play nice with my iPhone or iPad, my main sources for my bedroom system.
> 
> Any recommendations on an inexpensive, small in form DAC the works with the Apple Stuff? Or any tricks for getting the Nano to work consistently?




I believe the Pono will work with Apple files...don't you have a DAP, A&K or something like that? If not, Frye's is having good sales on the Pono, has gone as low as $200. It is the center of my bedside system (which is my most used system, being the lazy so-and-so I am...), line out into the LC, then to headphones, the acs Encore mostly at present.


----------



## musiclvr

stillhart said:


> Just FYI, the HD800 really needs power to sound its best.  You're not going to be doing it any favors using it SE out of the LC (the SE port has 1/4 the power of the balanced).  If you have the opportunity, I highly suggest using a balanced cable for this particular test.



You have echoed my concerns here. I am trying to see if others members at the meet have a balanced cable for the HD800. I will be happy to just audition the HD800 in general. I have been listening to the Airist Audio Heron 5 amplifier over the past week exclusively and find that ,@ 5 watts into 32 ohms capability,it is so darn musical with my 64 ohm AKG K702 65th Anniversary headphones. I can definitely see the HD800 needing all the juice it can get to sound it's best. I have been really enjoying the Alpha Dogs with the LC balanced out as it really lets the AD's sound so dynamic yet neutral with any genre of music coupled with a pitch black background. Whew!!!


----------



## coastal1

Connecting the iPhone to Micro w/ Apple CCK works great for me. This pic looks like an iPhone CCK connected to a Nano, are you using an Apple CCK?





wildcatsare1 said:


> Hey Guys, need a little help. I thought my iFi Nano iDSD would be a nice DAC until I get ready to upgrade. Well it doesn't play nice with my iPhone or iPad, my main sources for my bedroom system.
> 
> Any recommendations on an inexpensive, small in form DAC the works with the Apple Stuff? Or any tricks for getting the Nano to work consistently?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

DrJazzcoastal1 mscott58 I have been using the latest drivers and the CCK, following iFi's directions on having the unit on and my Apple stuff only recognizes it intermittently . 

Kinda frustrating, maybe a Mojo in my future.


----------



## f0oster

wildcatsare1 said:


> @DrJazz@coastal1 @mscott58 I have been using the latest drivers and the CCK, following iFi's directions on having the unit on and my Apple stuff only recognizes it intermittently
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not sure how the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 plays with Apple stuff (maybe give it a good read), but it was a popular recommendation in the LC DAC thread.
  
 http://emotiva.com/products/dacs/electronics/dacs/stealth-dc-1


----------



## doctorjazz

Been considering a Mojo myself, but waiting on assorted LH Labs stuff, see how that works out. Doing fine with the Pono and GEEK OUT Special Edition for now.


----------



## ying

musiclvr said:


> You have echoed my concerns here. I am trying to see if others members at the meet have a balanced cable for the HD800. I will be happy to just audition the HD800 in general. I have been listening to the Airist Audio Heron 5 amplifier over the past week exclusively and find that ,@ 5 watts into 32 ohms capability,it is so darn musical with my 64 ohm AKG K702 65th Anniversary headphones. I can definitely see the HD800 needing all the juice it can get to sound it's best. I have been really enjoying the Alpha Dogs with the LC balanced out as it really lets the AD's sound so dynamic yet neutral with any genre of music coupled with a pitch black background. Whew!!!


 
 I am using my HD800 with the LC on with SE input, my dac is balanced output. I think it is a huge improvement vs my Bottlehead Crack and Teac UD301's integrated amp. I use the 3x gain and the volume knob is 9 o clock. Can't wait until make my own balanced headphone cable for them. Hopefully that will surprise me even more.


----------



## Hansotek

ying said:


> musiclvr said:
> 
> 
> > You have echoed my concerns here. I am trying to see if others members at the meet have a balanced cable for the HD800. I will be happy to just audition the HD800 in general. I have been listening to the Airist Audio Heron 5 amplifier over the past week exclusively and find that ,@ 5 watts into 32 ohms capability,it is so darn musical with my 64 ohm AKG K702 65th Anniversary headphones. I can definitely see the HD800 needing all the juice it can get to sound it's best. I have been really enjoying the Alpha Dogs with the LC balanced out as it really lets the AD's sound so dynamic yet neutral with any genre of music coupled with a pitch black background. Whew!!!
> ...



Nice! I get back into town tomorrow with a fully burned-in Carbon and an HD800 balanced cable delivered in the mail and ready to go. Can't wait to give it a listen!


----------



## flashcolor

I have my LC for about two weeks.  Using MacBook Air (Bootcamp windows, JRiver MC21) to Chord Hugo to LC.  When connected with Audeze LCD 3 via balanced, the sound is awesome and background is quiet.  However, when I use the LC's SE output (using other headphones), I can hear a noise  (hum) with both high and low gain.  The noise is still there without the Hugo connected and volume turned to zero.
  
 It is so apparent; while it is low you can hear it between tracks.  Is it just my unit or you also hear the noise in the background in SE connection? Can anyone let me know if your unit is quiet with SE output?
  
 Thanks


----------



## x RELIC x

Very interesting experience with the Liquid Carbon and ETHER C tonight. I'm kicking back listening to music with the television on in the background (just because) and the TV volume is quite low, too low to listen to during the day. The strange part is I was wondering if I should turn down the Liquid Carbon until I realized I can still slightly hear the TV, even with the closed back ETHER C (gives an idea of how quiet I'm listening to the music). The clarity and dynamics of this pairing is phenomenal, even at low listening levels (about 8:40 on the volume dial).


----------



## WNBC

I am using SE mode with my KAM HP1 and I do not hear a hum in low or high gain.  Can try other headphones later but probably the same result.
  
 Interestingly, I had to set my DAC to lower output, otherwise there was bleed through of the music even with the Carbon volume at 0 setting.
  
 All in all, a pretty amazing amp.  I considered myself a tube guy until I heard this amp.
  
  
 Quote:


flashcolor said:


> I have my LC for about two weeks.  Using MacBook Air (Bootcamp windows, JRiver MC21) to Chord Hugo to LC.  When connected with Audeze LCD 3 via balanced, the sound is awesome and background is quiet.  However, when I use the LC's SE output (using other headphones), I can hear a noise  (hum) with both high and low gain.  The noise is still there without the Hugo connected and volume turned to zero.
> 
> It is so apparent; while it is low you can hear it between tracks.  Is it just my unit or you also hear the noise in the background in SE connection? Can anyone let me know if your unit is quiet with SE output?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## doctorjazz

I've been using the LC single ended (Pono source, acs Encore ciem out, very sensitive), haven't noted a hum.


----------



## swspiers

flashcolor said:


> I have my LC for about two weeks.  Using MacBook Air (Bootcamp windows, JRiver MC21) to Chord Hugo to LC.  When connected with Audeze LCD 3 via balanced, the sound is awesome and background is quiet.  However, when I use the LC's SE output (using other headphones), I can hear a noise  (hum) with both high and low gain.  The noise is still there without the Hugo connected and volume turned to zero.
> 
> It is so apparent; while it is low you can hear it between tracks.  Is it just my unit or you also hear the noise in the background in SE connection? Can anyone let me know if your unit is quiet with SE output?
> 
> Thanks




I did have a 60 Hz hum when I switched from XLR to SE, and listening with my HFM 400i's. The hum went away when I hooked the XLR's back in along with the SE, which tells me I probably had a simple connection loose. Trouble shooting these things can be a pain, and it doesn't help when it accidentally goes away. :rolleyes:

Now, no hum whatsoever. I'm not going to try to 'fix' it again...


----------



## Dave74

flashcolor said:


> I have my LC for about two weeks.  Using MacBook Air (Bootcamp windows, JRiver MC21) to Chord Hugo to LC.  When connected with Audeze LCD 3 via balanced, the sound is awesome and background is quiet.  However, when I use the LC's SE output (using other headphones), I can hear a noise  (hum) with both high and low gain.  The noise is still there without the Hugo connected and volume turned to zero.
> 
> It is so apparent; while it is low you can hear it between tracks.  Is it just my unit or you also hear the noise in the background in SE connection? Can anyone let me know if your unit is quiet with SE output?
> 
> Thanks


 

 I just tried the SE with my SE856 and JVC HA-FX850 IEMs and I am getting the hum with both of them.  I can still hear the hum with the volume turned to zero as well, I don't really notice it when music is playing, but like you say I can hear it between tracks, I might even be able to hear it on a quiet part of a song (haven't tried yet).  My new Asylum power cable and RCA cables should be here today so I will see if the power cable makes a difference.


----------



## doctorjazz

I haven't tried listening to it between tracks, certainly didn't note it during music playing. Will try it out tonight when I get home.


----------



## Peridot

When I took delivery of mine, I tried it briefly on SE output to my Beyerdynamic TP51s and noticed a lot of hum.
  
 I didn't have time to investigate further and left the amp burning in on balanced phones while I was away over Christmas.
  
 I'll be having a play with it this evening and will investigate whether the hum returns in SE mode.


----------



## coastal1

From all the initial impressions and recommendations from Cavalli, sounds like balanced headphone out is definitely the way to go. As mentioned previously, I burned in with balanced HD650 and listened for a bit about 24 hours into burn in and also thought that even at that point the LC was noticeably better than the Crack, though I didn't have the two amps in the same place much less A/B them. 

At that time, I briefly tried the HD650 with SE simply out of curiosity and was impressed that the difference was not as drastic as I was expecting (obviously had to turn gain/volume up using SE output, but still had plenty of power to spare; no hum or hiss or blatant degradation in SQ). That said, I didn't listen to SE output very long as I got the balanced amp and balanced cable for a reason, so would assume that the detail/soundstage/imaging etc using balanced output is as superior as everyone says. 

Looking forward to some time over New Years to do more dedicated listening now that the amp is fully burned in.



ying said:


> I am using my HD800 with the LC on with SE input, my dac is balanced output. I think it is a huge improvement vs my Bottlehead Crack and Teac UD301's integrated amp. I use the 3x gain and the volume knob is 9 o clock. Can't wait until make my own balanced headphone cable for them. Hopefully that will surprise me even more.


----------



## Stillhart

flashcolor said:


> I have my LC for about two weeks.  Using MacBook Air (Bootcamp windows, JRiver MC21) to Chord Hugo to LC.  When connected with Audeze LCD 3 via balanced, the sound is awesome and background is quiet.  However, when I use the LC's SE output (using other headphones), I can hear a noise  (hum) with both high and low gain.  The noise is still there without the Hugo connected and volume turned to zero.
> 
> It is so apparent; while it is low you can hear it between tracks.  Is it just my unit or you also hear the noise in the background in SE connection? Can anyone let me know if your unit is quiet with SE output?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Sounds like a ground loop.  Have you tried the Hugo both plugged into to power and unplugged from power?  Have you tried a different source than the Hugo (even if its just your phone via 3.5mm cable)?
  


coastal1 said:


> From all the initial impressions and recommendations from Cavalli, sounds like balanced headphone out is definitely the way to go. As mentioned previously, I burned in with balanced HD650 and listened for a bit about 24 hours into burn in and also thought that even at that point the LC was noticeably better than the Crack, though I didn't have the two amps in the same place much less A/B them.
> 
> At that time, I briefly tried the HD650 with SE simply out of curiosity and was impressed that the difference was not as drastic as I was expecting (obviously had to turn gain/volume up using SE output, but still had plenty of power to spare; no hum or hiss or blatant degradation in SQ). That said, I didn't listen to SE output very long as I got the balanced amp and balanced cable for a reason, so would assume that the detail/soundstage/imaging etc using balanced output is as superior as everyone says.
> 
> Looking forward to some time over New Years to do more dedicated listening now that the amp is fully burned in.


 
  
 Yes, definitely listen more.  When I went from SE to Balanced on the HD650/LC combo, I thought the difference was a noticeable improvement, well worth the investment in a balanced cable.  I'm curious what @warrenpchi will have to say about it when he finally gets around to his promised testing.


----------



## sheldaze

flashcolor said:


> I have my LC for about two weeks.  Using MacBook Air (Bootcamp windows, JRiver MC21) to Chord Hugo to LC.  When connected with Audeze LCD 3 via balanced, the sound is awesome and background is quiet.  However, when I use the LC's SE output (using *other headphones*), I can hear a noise  (hum) with both high and low gain.  The noise is still there without the Hugo connected and volume turned to zero.


 


stillhart said:


> Sounds like a ground loop.  Have you tried the Hugo both plugged into to power and unplugged from power?  Have you tried a different source than the Hugo (even if its just your phone via 3.5mm cable)?


 
 I was more curious what he meant by "other headphones" because I hear a hum too - but only with a low impedance headphone. I tried the TH-X00 because someone was having issues with their Fostex TH-900 headphone. HD650 through single-ended and balanced caused no issues. Other headphones of various impedance characteristics also caused no issues through the balanced output.


----------



## Mattyhew

sheldaze said:


> I was more curious what he meant by "other headphones" because I hear a hum too - but only with a low impedance headphone. I tried the TH-X00 because someone was having issues with their Fostex TH-900 headphone. HD650 through single-ended and balanced caused no issues. Other headphones of various impedance characteristics also caused no issues through the balanced output.


 
  
 I feel like i should add to this, when using my Titanium HD as a Source/DAC there is no hum all the way to 2 o'clock (anything above 11 o'clock is deafeningly loud) with my TH900s. It seems like the SE output is more than quiet enough if your source is dead silent. That being said with the TH900s )(i assume the same is true for TH-X00) you just need to change the connector at the end of the cable so it seems totally worth it.


----------



## Stillhart

Hearing background noise (hiss) from the SE connection isn't surprising if you've got very sensitive headphones or IEM's.  Hearing a hum is a different story...


----------



## coastal1

stillhart said:


> Yes, definitely listen more.  When I went from SE to Balanced on the HD650/LC combo, I thought the difference was a noticeable improvement, well worth the investment in a balanced cable.  I'm curious what @warrenpchi
> will have to say about it when he finally gets around to his promised testing.




Yes, looking forward to doing so, I'm sure the balanced is noticeably better after some comparison. I love this amp so my initial impression was a credit to the pleasant surprise of the SE output not having any glaring deficiencies, certainly not any disappointment with the balanced output, which has exceeded my high expectations.

I'm more curious about spending time comparing the LC/HD650 to the Crack/HD650 pairing and impressions from others given the Crack's reputation with the HD650. 

 Some variables that could have affected my initial impression that the LC/HD650 was better (1) I'm using a custom headphone cable whereas always used stock HD650 cable with the Crack, (2) excitement of using the new LC, and (3) using Pangea power cord with LC whereas always used mono price cord with the Crack. I'd be quite surprised if using the same cables/cords with the Crack changes my initial strong preference for the LC over the Crack, but nevertheless curious to compare apples to apples as much as possible. Likewise, Ive initially only played music (lossless) from iPhone>DAC>LC, whereas playing lossless music from PC on Jriver>DAC>amp has otherwise sounded better to me. Perhaps it's the LC's balanced output compared to the Crack's SE output that really does it for me.


----------



## sheldaze

stillhart said:


> Hearing background noise (hiss) from the SE connection isn't surprising if you've got very sensitive headphones or IEM's.  Hearing a hum is a different story...


 
 I have replugged, reconnected everything exactly as I had it a couple days ago.
  
 No hum...odd.
  
 I was playing Pono > LC > TH-X00 but still had my normal DAC plugged into the balanced inputs on the LC. Other than Pono has been recharged, there is no change. Perhaps the hum was from the low-battery Pono.


----------



## Dave74

sheldaze said:


> I have replugged, reconnected everything exactly as I had it a couple days ago.
> 
> No hum...odd.
> 
> I was playing Pono > LC > TH-X00 but still had my normal DAC plugged into the balanced inputs on the LC. Other than Pono has been recharged, there is no change. Perhaps the hum was from the low-battery Pono.


 

 Mine has hum out of the SE without even having a source (Hugo) attached, I only have the power cord and IEM's or headphones connected to the LC.  I have now tried my SE-846, JVC FX850, and Sony MDR 750 which all have a slight hum.
  
 I just ordered a pair of HD650 and will have to try SE with those as another poster said higher impedance headphones don't seem to have this hum... But I am planning on using the HD650 with a balanced cable when it get here as well.
  
 I really only plan on using balanced anyways, which I am very happy with.  
*I am really loving the sound from this amp.*


----------



## coastal1

buttuglyjeff said:


> Isolators are great for certain audio components.  The ones with moving parts...
> 
> The Liquid Carbon is so light, I'm already tugging that thing around with my headphone cable.  I could only imagine how much more "slippery" those feet could make it.  I think silicone feet are in my future.




Odd request, but any suggestions for feet for the LC? Most I'm finding are either too big for the LC or sold in larger quantities than I need...Found these "Baby Booties," though not sure they're worth the $25 they come to w/ shipping. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm


----------



## sheldaze

dave74 said:


> *I am really loving the sound from this amp.*


 
 The Carbon indeed has a really good sound. I'm running balanced EL-8C, HD650, and HE-1000. I'm waiting for HD800 to show - they were supposed to show up yesterday, but anytime today...we need an emojii for waiting.
  
 Hearing the HE-1000 and LC at a couple of meets is what sold me. Though I hear from a certain Dr. that my ears will be blown away by MicroZOTL2 at a meet in February


----------



## aamefford

coastal1 said:


> Odd request, but any suggestions for feet for the LC? Most I'm finding are either too big for the LC or sold in larger quantities than I need...Found these "Baby Booties," though not sure they're worth the $25 they come to w/ shipping. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm



Hardware or grocery store silicon or rubber feet. Less than $5 for a bunch of them.


----------



## Dave74

sheldaze said:


> The Carbon indeed has a really good sound. I'm running balanced EL-8C, HD650, and HE-1000. I'm waiting for HD800 to show - they were supposed to show up yesterday, but anytime today...we need an emojii for waiting.
> 
> Hearing the HE-1000 and LC at a couple of meets is what sold me. Though I hear from a certain Dr. that my ears will be blown away by *MicroZOTL2 *at a meet in February


 
  
 Yes, I've heard him giving high praise for the ZOTL2.  I'm wondering how the Eddie Current Black Widow or Copperhead will compare to these as well. 
  
 [size=x-small]The waiting is tough... Canada Post was also on holiday yesterday so that [/size]didn't help I[size=x-small] am also waiting on a pair of Nighthawks I ordered on Dec. 26th, but I don't think I will be using them SE with the LC due to the hum.  I might have to get a balanced cable for them as well. [/size]
 [size=x-small]I've never heard the HE-1000, but I'd imagine they would sound amazing as I love my HE-500.  But [/size]the[size=x-small] HE-1000 are now out of my budget[/size]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


  If I wouldn't have spent so much on mid-fi portable over the years I could have just bought a higher end HP.


----------



## Glow Fish

coastal1 said:


> Odd request, but any suggestions for feet for the LC? Most I'm finding are either too big for the LC or sold in larger quantities than I need...Found these "Baby Booties," though not sure they're worth the $25 they come to w/ shipping. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm


 
  
 I'm using these.  They are fine, a little squishy but do the job.
  
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U6ZDU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s02


----------



## Stillhart

dave74 said:


> Mine has hum out of the SE without even having a source (Hugo) attached, I only have the power cord and IEM's or headphones connected to the LC.  I have now tried my SE-846, JVC FX850, and Sony MDR 750 which all have a slight hum.
> 
> I just ordered a pair of HD650 and will have to try SE with those as another poster said higher impedance headphones don't seem to have this hum... But I am planning on using the HD650 with a balanced cable when it get here as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried the amp plugged into a different outlet?  Amps shouldn't have hum when they're just doing nothing.
  
 EDIT - For feet, I'm literally just using those foam pads that you put under your furniture's feet to keep them from scraping.  I had a bunch sitting around and figured they were better than nothing.  They're don't slide nearly as much as I'd feared.  Something like this, though not this particular one.


----------



## Dave74

I have it plugged into my PS Audio Dectet.  I am using the HC (high current) receptacle, but I have also tried another receptacle on the Dectet.  I am thinking about trying it straight out of the wall receptacle.  I have a new power cord (Asylum) out for delivery today and will and experiment more once that gets here.  I'd still like to have a power conditioner for the LC though as I don't want it to get damaged from a power surge.


----------



## jfoxvol

Mine just came in.  Delivered while I was away for Christmas.  Just plugged into my MB Bifrost DAC and playing some tunes.  Right out of the box it sounds tremendous.  Whisper quiet background.  I'll post impressions as I get more time on this and let it break in.  I'll also run from my Yggy as time allows (more time required for setup in main system).  S/N 415.  I'm glad I snagged one when I could.  Great amp.


----------



## PCWar

Had the pleasure to listen to the Carbon today. A friend of mine just got it a few days ago. What a wonderful piece of equipment it is. Still not at the level of the 3x expensive Auralic Taurus but it shows comparable musicality in a very transportable size. I'm really regretting cancelling my order after communication of the September's delay from Alex.


----------



## jamato8

The LC is loads of fun and does well. I have only used it balanced with Whiplash Twau cable. The Kobiconn connector works well and I love the light weight and that it isn't heavy enough to be a weapon. lol A few things about the Kobiconn is that is light weight, offers a very short path through the connector rather than a bunch of brass, costs little and since I have used it for years now, holds up extremely well. 
  
 The micro Zotl amp by comparison is extremely fine and top tier but the LC is still a great amp and very enjoyable to use.


----------



## doctorjazz

sheldaze said:


> dave74 said:
> 
> 
> > *I am really loving the sound from this amp.*
> ...




My ears were buzzing, heh heh heh!
I did bring it to the meet in Stamford Ct not long ago (there was another there for display as well). Planning on getting to the Spring meet, but these things are always dependent on other things in my life, which sometimes interfere with playtime, but hoping I'll get to it.

1+ to Jamato8's comments...really like the LC, have it bedside, actually using it single ended mostly (have a balanced cable set up only for my HE-1000, at least that would go to the LC, do have Pono cables for my acs Encores). It actually sounds fine with the sensitive acs, likely better if I got the adapter to use it balanced, but haven't gotten to it, do use it every night, in fact, because IT IS AT THE BEDSIDE!!!!!
The ZOTL is hooked to the PC at the moment (LH Labs 2Gen usb cable, REgen, Geek Out Special Edition), have the HE-1000 there, LC is nice, ZOTL is better (not a knock on the LC, again, just how I hears it. For the money, it is a great, light amp. For the record, I did compare the balanced HE-1000 in the LC to the HEK with the ZOTL, which is only single ended, the ZOTL is better sounding, hence it's placement in my "better" system).


----------



## kingdixon

Well, i just received my LC in egypt, paid around 16$ customs LOL , also iam kinda sure it is the only cavalli product in egypt 

I have only my LCD 2.2 balanced, so iam gonna complete burning in either with lcd or without headphones when iam not listening,

Iam using as a source either my zx2 or my x5, with x5 i use volume around 9 or 10 oclock, with zx2 i can use it maxed, both on high gain ( very big difference in power )

What initially impressed me the transparency wow just amazing its like you can see through haha, on the other side the sound is a bit thin with zx2, more full with the x5, and the highs are a bit shouty, thats like 1 day into burn in without much listening, also with different sources the sound changes clearly, 

So i will just mix and match abit to reach the best combo, but its very musical and enjoyable !


----------



## mandrake50

Anyone using the LC with the HE 560s? I am curious about how you are running volume and gain settings. I have run the LC for over 150 hours. Mostly into the HD 650 balanced. I have been driving it balanced from a Pulse Infinity. I decided to take a bit of time to listen last night. I noticed that I could quite easily drive the 560s wide open at 1X gain. Not ear splitting by any means. I generally like to go with minimum gain. Sort of a matter of principle, but also reducing gain stages can't hurt.
 I need to go back and play some more prior to writing much in the way of impressions... and try some of the other phones.


----------



## vince741

Hi,
  
 I got my LC today and something weird happened.
 I listen to the amp for about two hours and got a buzzing/cracking noise on the right channel while using my HD800 in balanced. The noise is present even with the volume at 0.
 I swapped cable and went to se and still the noise. I check to see if there is something wrong with the HD800 by plugging it in an other amp and I have no issue.
 So I try the LC with my Audeze and I hear the noise.
  
 I put it aside for around an hour, launch it again and everything is back to normal.
 I proceed to put IsoTek - Full System Enhancer & Rejuvenation Disc for two run and then plug the LC to my main system again.
 For a few hours, everything is fine and no I got the same buzzing/crackling noise in the right channel.
  
 Does it happened to anyone else?


----------



## doctorjazz

No.


----------



## x RELIC x

No crackling / buzzing with mine.


----------



## Burtron5

OK, a nube question here;
  
 Using the Emotiva DC-1 DAC w/ the LC.
 Currently using an optical-in cable to come from the iMac.
 Does it matter sample wise if I'm in Asynchonous or
 Synchronous? The read out says "SAMPLE 96k" in
 either mode.
  
 I know some are MP3's so is it Resampling/converting?
 Or, do I need to use a USB in instead of the Optical in?
  
 Hmmm...


----------



## Stillhart

mandrake50 said:


> Anyone using the LC with the HE 560s? I am curious about how you are running volume and gain settings. I have run the LC for over 150 hours. Mostly into the HD 650 balanced. I have been driving it balanced from a Pulse Infinity. I decided to take a bit of time to listen last night. I noticed that I could quite easily drive the 560s wide open at 1X gain. Not ear splitting by any means. I generally like to go with minimum gain. Sort of a matter of principle, but also reducing gain stages can't hurt.
> I need to go back and play some more prior to writing much in the way of impressions... and try some of the other phones.


 
  
 Yep, plenty of headroom at 1x gain.  IIRC, I'm usually listening around 10:00 on the volume dial.


----------



## x RELIC x

burtron5 said:


> OK, a nube question here;
> 
> Using the Emotiva DC-1 DAC w/ the LC.
> Currently using an optical-in cable to come from the iMac.
> ...




Probably should ask in the Emotiva thread.... :wink_face:


----------



## Peridot

Car troubles have distracted me from more pleasurable pursuits this evening, but I've just had a very quick check on the hum issue.
  
 No problem with the LC - with no inputs connected, there is no hum or other audible noise with any phones on any output.
  
 Connecting my Emotiva Stealth DAC via balanced XLR results in quite a bit of hum on the SE output with both low- and high-impedance phones.
  
 I parallel connected the SE output from the Emotiva to the LC and this eliminated the hum on high-impedance phones and reduced it considerably on the low-impedance ones. Am I right in thinking that this suggests there may be an issue with the ground reference connection within the DAC or cables?
  
 With single-ended input connection only, there was some audible hum on the low-impedance phones, but nowhere near as much as when balanced inputs used.
  
  
 Balanced _output_ to my B&W P7s has no audible hum in any configuration.
  
 I'll check out the cables and connections a bit more when I get a chance, but I'm satisfied that any issue is related to what I have connected to the LC rather than the amp itself.
  
  
 Incidentally, I didn't have time for any longer critical listening, but switching between the SE and balanced inputs made no apparent difference whatsoever to the balanced output - The LC sounds equally as beautiful from both.


----------



## Burtron5

OK, I actually read the User Manual and...
  
 Asynchronous will get rid of any Jitter w/o changing the sound.
  
 and the sample rate displayed is what the DAC is receiving from
 the iMac (which in this case is being resampled to 96k)
  
 Helps to read the manual!


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> Car troubles have distracted me from more pleasurable pursuits this evening, but I've just had a very quick check on the hum issue.
> 
> No problem with the LC - with no inputs connected, there is no hum or other audible noise with any phones on any output.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes.  Dr. Cavalli wrote a post about this some time ago.  Let me see if I can find it...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/270#post_11617816
  


> In a normal XLR connection where pin 1 (by convention) carries the ground, the two metal grounds are connected. If the ground wires are absent the only way the boxes can establish a ground reference is through the signal lines and in doing so inject noise into the actual signal. People who have tried to use only the four wire TRRS cable as a balanced connection between two devices have discovered this. I believe, for example, that A&K has.
> 
> So, if you have a source with an RSA or TRRS balanced output you can't simply use four wires. There is a solution, however, which is a little kludgy, but not too bad.


 
  
 I know this isn't quite your situation as he's referencing TRRS to XLR connections.  However, if there's something wrong with your cables or DAC, then the ground wire might not be working as advertised, causing this situation.  Since connecting the RCA helped fix the problem, which is basically the solution he explained later in the post, I'd say it's likely that a grounding issue between the devices is your culprit.
  
 I'm no EE, but it seems to make sense...


----------



## digitallc

Back from vacation, and finally.......


----------



## flashcolor

Thanks to those who responded to my post.  I do not know if I should and how to respond to multiple feedbacks so I am picking one to.
  
 I also used the iFi micro iDSD.  The same.  I have Etymotic 4R and a bunch of other in ears thrown at the SE output.  The same.  The hum is there; lower with less sensitive earphones but it is always there.  I also tried to plug in my LCD 3 in the balanced output at the same time, did not make a difference to the hum from the SE output.
  
 Interestingly from the responses it seems some of you (i.e., WNPC) do not hear noise/hum from the SE output and others to different degrees (goes away with lower sensitive headphones).  So can this be inconsistency in the production run of LC?


----------



## x RELIC x

flashcolor said:


> Thanks to those who responded to my post.  I do not know if I should and how to respond to multiple feedbacks so I am picking one to.
> 
> I also used the iFi micro iDSD.  The same.  I have Etymotic 4R and a bunch of other in ears thrown at the SE output.  The same.  The hum is there; lower with less sensitive earphones but it is always there.  I also tried to plug in my LCD 3 in the balanced output at the same time, did not make a difference to the hum from the SE output.
> 
> Interestingly from the responses it seems some of you (i.e., WNPC) do not hear noise/hum from the SE output and others to different degrees (goes away with lower sensitive headphones).  So can this be inconsistency in the production run of LC?




Have you tried a different plug in a different location/circuit in your home? Really sounds like a ground loop issue to me.


----------



## mandrake50

stillhart said:


> Yep, plenty of headroom at 1x gain.  IIRC, I'm usually listening around 10:00 on the volume dial.


 

 I will have to try a different DAC. Many times this kind of discrepancy is all about input level.
 Stillhart, what are you driving the LC with?


----------



## mscott58

mandrake50 said:


> I will have to try a different DAC. Many times this kind of discrepancy is all about input level.
> Stillhart, what are you driving the LC with?




Believe Dan is using the DAC-19. Cheers


----------



## flashcolor

I tried the LC in both my study and bedroom. Same problem.

If it is a ground loop, how to get rid if it?


----------



## yage

I hear a very loud hum whenever I use balanced input and use SE output. It's noticeably lower in level when using balanced output, but still intrudes on the performance when playing music. Using SE input, I get zero hum on SE or balanced output, though there is a very faint buzzing noise on the SE output that's eliminated when using balanced output. Currently troubleshooting the problem with Alex.


----------



## Stillhart

mandrake50 said:


> I will have to try a different DAC. Many times this kind of discrepancy is all about input level.
> Stillhart, what are you driving the LC with?


 
  
  


mscott58 said:


> Believe Dan is using the DAC-19. Cheers


 
  
 Correct!  I'm surprised there's anyone in the LC thread that doesn't know that by now!  lol  I've been talking about the pairing since... I don't know, May or June?  And I brought my DAC-19 to RMAF and had it at the Cavalli table with the LC so people could sample it there.
  
 Michael, you're using the Pulse Infinity, right?  Any volume issues on your end?  Is there a Line Out setting that has to be turned on?


----------



## mandrake50

mscott58 said:


> Believe Dan is using the DAC-19. Cheers


 

 Yes, that seems to be one he likes. I wish I had taken time to listen to it at RMAF. In any case, things can change, so I thought I would ask.
  
 I thought that someone(s) else had mentioned using a Pulse with their LC. Those would be the people I would really like to hear from on the output level  question.


----------



## XenHeadFi

vince741 said:


> I got my LC today and something weird happened...I listen to the amp for about two hours and got a buzzing/cracking noise on the right channel while using my HD800 in balanced...
> 
> Does it happened to anyone else?


 
  
 I sent my Carbon back to Cavalli today because of this. I posted in one of the other Carbon threads (http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/5160#post_12205012).
  
 Was good for the full burn-in (>150 hours) then suddenly noise (hiss-type) in only the right channel at only 3x gain with only balanced INPUTs. This was unusual hiss because it was loudest at zero volume and gone at max volume...
  
  
 Quote:


mandrake50 said:


> Anyone using the LC with the HE 560s? ... I noticed that I could quite easily drive the 560s wide open at 1X gain.


 
  
 I ran my HE560s balanced with Gumby hooked up to the Carbon balanced at first, then both balanced and SE (RCA).  From measuring my output voltage and using the headphone power calculator, I found that my standard listening level is equal to ~25mV or ~70 dB. For 1x gain that was about 10:30 and at 3x gain was ~8:45 oclock. The highest I listened on 1x was about 2 oclock, which is about 90 dB (estimated from mV readings at 12 and 3 oclock). I read that Gumby's outputs are considered hot, FWIW.


----------



## Cardiiiii

For anyone using a Hugo as a DAC, what volumes are the Hugo and LC at for reasonable listening levels? I tried line out (Hugo volume knob glows green) and at about 11 o clock on the LC the volume was too low. So now the Hugo volume knob is dark blue and at 11 o clock on the Hugo and the listening level is better.


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> For anyone using a Hugo as a DAC, what volumes are the Hugo and LC at for reasonable listening levels? I tried line out (Hugo volume knob glows green) and at about 11 o clock on the LC the volume was too low. So now the Hugo volume knob is dark blue and at 11 o clock on the Hugo and the listening level is better.




No wrong answer there as the Hugo volume settings simply adjust the voltage out, like a variable line out. Whatever level you prefer would be the best level without over driving the LC IMO.


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> No wrong answer there as the Hugo volume settings simply adjust the voltage out, like a variable line out. Whatever level you prefer would be the best level without over driving the LC IMO.


 
  
 Thanks for that. I just want to make sure the amp is working alright. Haha


----------



## Jhya

flashcolor said:


> I tried the LC in both my study and bedroom. Same problem.
> 
> If it is a ground loop, how to get rid if it?


 
 You can try using a cheater plug to troubleshoot whether you got ground loop problem:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheater_plug


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> Thanks for that. I just want to make sure the amp is working alright. Haha




I forget, are you using SE or balanced out?


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> Correct!  I'm surprised there's anyone in the LC thread that doesn't know that by now!  lol  I've been talking about the pairing since... I don't know, May or June?  And I brought my DAC-19 to RMAF and had it at the Cavalli table with the LC so people could sample it there.
> 
> Michael, you're using the Pulse Infinity, right?  Any volume issues on your end?  Is there a Line Out setting that has to be turned on?




No issues. Just set it to -0.0db and let the music fly! 

With my Mojo I use the "blue-balls" pseudo line-out setting. 

Cheers


----------



## Cardiiiii

x relic x said:


> I forget, are you using SE or balanced out?


 
 I'm using balanced out. Can't seem to get the line out working on my Hugo. When I switch on with the crossfeed button pressed the volume knob is green and not light blue like the manual says it should be.


----------



## Dave74

cardiiiii said:


> For anyone using a Hugo as a DAC, what volumes are the Hugo and LC at for reasonable listening levels? I tried line out (Hugo volume knob glows green) and at about 11 o clock on the LC the volume was too low. So now the Hugo volume knob is dark blue and at 11 o clock on the Hugo and the listening level is better.


 

 I just turn on my Hugo normally, then I adjust the volume to between light blue to dark blue.  Then the volume on my LC is usually around 10-11 o'clock. I find this gives me good adjustment with the HE-500 using balanced output.  If I were using sensitive IEM's I would adjust the volume on the Hugo a little lower to give more adjustability with the LC.
  
 This is what I have been doing anyways.


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> I'm using balanced out. Can't seem to get the line out working on my Hugo. When I switch on with the crossfeed button pressed the volume knob is green and not light blue like the manual says it should be.




There is no seperate amp circuit to bypass so I'd suggest just bumping up the volume to light blue (~3V). Strange that holding the cross feed while powering on doesn't get you the volume shortcut to line level.


----------



## Cardiiiii

dave74 said:


> I just turn on my Hugo normally, then I adjust the volume to between light blue to dark blue.  Then the volume on my LC is usually around 10-11 o'clock. I find this gives me good adjustment with the HE-500 using balanced output.  If I were using sensitive IEM's I would adjust the volume on the Hugo a little lower to give more adjustability with the LC.
> 
> This is what I have been doing anyways.


 
  
 When my Hugo volume knob is dark blue, I need the LC volume to be at around 1 o clock for my listening level in balanced out. I don't know if I just like it loud or if something is wrong with the amp. I'm using LCD2Fs btw.


----------



## swspiers

cardiiiii said:


> dave74 said:
> 
> 
> > I just turn on my Hugo normally, then I adjust the volume to between light blue to dark blue.  Then the volume on my LC is usually around 10-11 o'clock. I find this gives me good adjustment with the HE-500 using balanced output.  If I were using sensitive IEM's I would adjust the volume on the Hugo a little lower to give more adjustability with the LC.
> ...




I really don't think volume position on knob is that big a deal, unless the amp is clipping or you're losing your hearing. YMMV, of course...


----------



## Dave74

cardiiiii said:


> When my Hugo volume knob is dark blue, I need the LC volume to be at around 1 o clock for my listening level in balanced out. I don't know if I just like it loud or if something is wrong with the amp. I'm using LCD2Fs btw.


 

 It could be that you just like louder volumes.  I'm a fairly quiet listener.  I could be wrong but I think the HE-500 (89db/mw) are also less sensitive so I really should need more volume to get the same as the LCD2Fs (101db/mW).?  If I am wrong about this someone let me know please.
  
 I do find at the light blue and 1 o'clock is quiet *loud* for me though.  Green and 1 o'clock works well for me.  I do remember letting one of my friends try my BHA-1 with my HE-500's and he cranked it in-between 12-1:00 o'clock and I usually listened at around 9-10 o'clock.  I was shocked when he turned it that high lol.
  
*EDIT:  I just tried setting my Hugo to line out mode (turning on with crossfade pressed) and the volume colour on the Hugo was above the purple, I'd say ultra violet.*
  
 This chart was borrowed from the Hugo thread.


----------



## wym2

Dear Dr. Cavalli,
  
 150 hrs +.
  
 Big Thanks


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

coastal1 said:


> Odd request, but any suggestions for feet for the LC? Most I'm finding are either too big for the LC or sold in larger quantities than I need...Found these "Baby Booties," though not sure they're worth the $25 they come to w/ shipping. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm


 
  
 I'm sure those will work, but I just went to my local hardware store and got little "peel and stick" silicone dots.  While I like Paul Simon's "Slip Slidin' Away", I don't like it when my gear does just that.  Problem solved...


----------



## flashcolor

OK.  I just floated the ground with a cheater plug.  Unfortunately there was no change to the hum issue.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Reporting in at about 125 hours. Had just been using in-ears for burn in, thought I would just take a little listen with my HD800l, with balanced Norne Draug 2 Cable, sweet Lord the reports of an excellent synergy are accurate! I don't remember bass like this with these headphones. 

Mind you, this is with an iPad Air 2>Norne Zoetic 1/8 to 1/8>LC since I haven't been able to get the iFi and iPad to play nice yet. If this little beauty gets better that's icing on the cake. I'll pick up a new CCK and see if that helps.

Great Amp Dr. Cavlli, thank you and have a happy new year!


----------



## doctorjazz

Glad you're enjoying it, @Wildcatsare1, it is indeed a sweet lil' amp, use it every night in the essential bedside system!
Happy New Year!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

doctorjazz said:


> Glad you're enjoying it, @Wildcatsare1, it is indeed a sweet lil' amp, use it every night in the essential bedside system!
> Happy New Year!




Hey Doc, you were my inspiration for setting up a bedside system, it's just what the Doctor ordered (bad pun intended ). 

At this point I prefer the LC for rock/progressive and the Taurus Mk.2 for classical (at 3x the price).


----------



## doctorjazz

Bedside system is perfect for not hearing the complaints of the little woman...(sorry dear, didn't mean that, IT WAS A JOKE, I SWEAR!....)


----------



## VandyMan

What is the approximate 0 dB position for the LC volume control?


----------



## swspiers

vandyman said:


> What is the approximate 0 dB position for the LC volume control?


Great question!


----------



## jarnopp

doctorjazz said:


> Bedside system is perfect for not hearing the complaints of the little woman...(sorry dear, didn't mean that, IT WAS A JOKE, I SWEAR!....)




Like she would ever get anywhere near Head-fi!


----------



## doctorjazz

True dat, but I was kidding anyway (I actually usually show her my silly posts, remind her what a nut she married  )


----------



## cskippy

vandyman said:


> What is the approximate 0 dB position for the LC volume control?


 
  
 Not positive but 1x gain full volume should match your dac's output level.  Obviously will be loud so be careful!


----------



## kingdixon

kingdixon said:


> Well, i just received my LC in egypt, paid around 16$ customs LOL , also iam kinda sure it is the only cavalli product in egypt
> 
> I have only my LCD 2.2 balanced, so iam gonna complete burning in either with lcd or without headphones when iam not listening,
> 
> ...




iam about 3 days into burn in, iam still using zx2 as my source, Lcd 2.2 and iam really digging the amp !

It seems to me now the highs are tamed, i dont get the shouty feeling anymore, it sounds fuller the bass is tight and hits low, its an amazing performer and still what really stands out for me is the transparency and the quality is quite amazing.. also with rsa balanced connection its dead silent black background.

I only tried 3.5 source and rsa output, i hope everything else is working fine with no production issues (i dont have all the cables to try other connections) , and my heart with everyone having problems from shipment delays to amp operation, just when all this is over you will be up to a really nice treat !!

i mean i never owned totl dacs or amps, just have some powerful portable amps but this is the best i have heard yet ..


----------



## yoshidino

No hums here from SE or Balanced. Fed balanced from Gustard X20, SE from Mojo. I must say everything that had been said about Ether C and LC pair is true to the core. Its match made in heaven!


----------



## Cardiiiii

Have to admit, I found the LC pretty meh when I first hooked it up. But every time I listen to it, the sound just keeps getting better. Nas' Illmatic has never sounded this good!!!
  
 P.S. I'm not continuously burning it in, I'm listening to it in 1-2 hour bursts. Will enjoy the burn in over the next couple of months.


----------



## stuart1927

I'm probably 100 hrs in or so. Sound is better I think...not huge margins, just a bit more cohesive and sweet sounding overall. Bass has been great for me since day one, so I'm not hearing huge differences there. If I were to pick on one specific area of excellence (and there are more than one), I'd say it's the separation that astounds me. I'm an ex-musician so tend to listen to individual instruments in the scheme of the overall mix, and the LC excels for that. 
  
 It's just such a musical amp.....I probably would have stopped at this amp, had I not pushed the button 6 months ago on a DNA stratus amp. Will be interesting to compare!


----------



## santacore

> It's just such a musical amp.....I probably would have stopped at this amp, had I not pushed the button 6 months ago on a DNA stratus amp. Will be interesting to compare!


 
 The LC is a excellent amp in the <1K range. That said, the Stratus is a reference amp that won't disappoint.


----------



## Hansotek

Has anyone had a chance to compare different power cables? Any recommendations and differences you've noticed on the LC?


----------



## Jozurr

hansotek said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare different power cables? Any recommendations and differences you've noticed on the LC?


----------



## bearFNF

Nope...


----------



## Peridot

hansotek said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare different power cables? Any recommendations and differences you've noticed on the LC?


 
  
 There are other threads for such nonsense.
  
 We're all far more sensible here


----------



## swspiers

hansotek said:


> Has anyone had a chance to compare different power cables? Any recommendations and differences you've noticed on the LC?




I have! The ridiculous Pangea cable is too stiff, and moves the LC to the side unless I tie it down.

The power cable from my old Carvin B-1500 bass amp works perfectly.


----------



## doctorjazz

I use the Pangea, it is stiff and heavy, but hasn't been a big problem. Haven't compared to other power cords, May be better ones out there, but haven't got the time or energy for it...


----------



## stuart1927

I'm using a power cable I got from decware. I didn't buy it for the LC, but I was switching cables around on my other gear and had that one spare. Sounds great to me, but any decent quality cable will be fine. I'm in the camp of....really makes no audible difference to 99% of people. The other 1% are kidding themselves!


----------



## yoshidino

My $10 Tripp Lite 14AWG power cord works great! Nice and thick. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027JRMD0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00


----------



## WNBC

Me too, working well.  
  
 Quote:


yoshidino said:


> My $10 Tripp Lite 14AWG power cord works great! Nice and thick. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027JRMD0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00


----------



## VandyMan

cskippy said:


> Not positive but 1x gain full volume should match your dac's output level.  Obviously will be loud so be careful!


 

 I think you are correct, thanks. Assuming 1x means 1x the input, 0 dB should be when the volume control is at 100% in that mode. I think I'l email Cavalli after the holidays and try to find out for certain.


----------



## Hansotek

doctorjazz said:


> I use the Pangea, it is stiff and heavy, but hasn't been a big problem. Haven't compared to other power cords, May be better ones out there, but haven't got the time or energy for it...




Yeah, I'm kinda wondering how a cord like the Pangea or Audioquest compares to the typical $10 monoprice. On some stuff it doesn't matter so much, but if I could squeeze out just a little extra performance in terms of microdynamics I'd be very pleased. 

It tends to become slightly greyer at lower volume (which is all Class-A operation), hence my theory that the cable may be the remedy.

I'll probably just end up buying a better cable anyway.

*edit - I said "macro" by mistake. I meant microdynamics.


----------



## doctorjazz

@hansotek
I should have a no name power cord somewhere, this will be a GREAT WAY to spend my New Years, I'm going to do the comparisons, by golly, come hell or high water, BECAUSE THAT'S THE KIND OF GUY I AM!!!!!


----------



## Hansotek

doctorjazz said:


> @hansotek
> I should have a no name power cord somewhere, this will be a GREAT WAY to spend my New Years, I'm going to do the comparisons, by golly, come hell or high water, BECAUSE THAT'S THE KIND OF GUY I AM!!!!!



You really are a scholar and a gentleman, Dr. Jazz.


----------



## sahmen

hansotek said:


> Yeah, I'm kinda wondering how a cord like the Pangea or Audioquest compares to the typical $10 monoprice. On some stuff it doesn't matter so much, but if I could squeeze out just a little extra performance in terms of microdynamics I'd be very pleased.
> 
> It tends to become slightly greyer at lower volume (which is all Class-A operation), hence my theory that the cable may be the remedy.
> 
> ...


 
 Not to be a smartazz or know it all, but my question about the claims of special power cords has always been this : how can a boutique power cord leading from a wall plug to a component make a significant difference if the entire set of in-wall electrical wirings inside of the given household remain the same and generic, assuming that any power signal can only be as strong as the weakest link in the entire chain of wirings in a given household?
  
 That "weakest link" argument seems compelling, and yet the "magic" of cords from the Pangeas and Audioquests of the Audiophile world seems to rest on the assumption that they (the cords) can generate some special "voodoo" between the wall-socket and the component they're feeding, a special "voodoo" that the in-wall generic wirings are by definition unable or ill-equipped to transport...  That is the conundrum I cannot wrap my mind around...  I would be happy to have that piece of magic explained to me...
  
 This is a question I am asking with respect... I am not trying to rile anyone up.  Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

sahmen said:


> Not to be a smartazz or know it all, but my question about the claims of special power cords has always been this : how can a boutique power cord leading from a wall plug to a component make a significant difference if the entire set of in-wall electrical wirings inside of the given household remain the same and generic, assuming that any power signal can only be as strong as the weakest link in the entire chain of wirings in a given household?
> 
> That "weakest link" argument seems compelling, and yet the "magic" of cords from the Pangeas and Audioquests of the Audiophile world seems to rest on the assumption that they (the cords) can generate some special "voodoo" between the wall-socket and the component they're feeding, a special "voodoo" that the in-wall generic wirings are by definition unable or ill-equipped to transport...  That is the conundrum I cannot wrap my mind around...  I would be happy to have that piece of magic explained to me...
> 
> This is a question I am asking with respect... I am not trying to rile anyone up.  Thanks.


 
  
 It's a question that won't be answered in this thread because it's against forum rules.  There should be a thread in the Sound Science forum to discuss these things and I suspect this question has been asked and answered many times.
  
 What is okay to discuss here is whether you personally heard a difference with a cable that you personally own on this particular amp.  Hope this helps!


----------



## coastal1

sahmen said:


> Not to be a smartazz or know it all, but my question about the claims of special power cords has always been this : how can a boutique power cord leading from a wall plug to a component make a significant difference if the entire set of in-wall electrical wirings inside of the given household remain the same and generic, assuming that any power signal can only be as strong as the weakest link in the entire chain of wirings in a given household?
> 
> That "weakest link" argument seems compelling, and yet the "magic" of cords from the Pangeas and Audioquests of the Audiophile world seems to rest on the assumption that they (the cords) can generate some special "voodoo" between the wall-socket and the component they're feeding, a special "voodoo" that the in-wall generic wirings are by definition unable or ill-equipped to transport...  That is the conundrum I cannot wrap my mind around...  I would be happy to have that piece of magic explained to me...
> 
> This is a question I am asking with respect... I am not trying to rile anyone up.  Thanks.


 
  
 I don't have enough personal experience with power cords to have a strong opinion -- the $70 Pangea cord that I got for the LC is the only somewhat special cord I own.
  
 However, I can say that I've plugged a headphone amp straight into the wall and there was an audible hiss without any music playing.  Not sure if it was the socket or the wifi router or other electronics in the same room or what.  I then tried plugging the amp into a cheap surge protector and (after trying a couple different surge protectors) the hiss was eliminated.  So if a cheap surge protector can make that much of a difference, it doesn't seem completely crazy that power cords can make a difference.  That said, at some point I'm going to A/B the Pangea with a monoprice cord and may sell the Pangea depending on what I hear; I won't be spending more than the Pangea for a cord on a $600 amp unless there are waves of positive credible reviews to try something else.


----------



## doctorjazz

sahmen said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I'm kinda wondering how a cord like the Pangea or Audioquest compares to the typical $10 monoprice. On some stuff it doesn't matter so much, but if I could squeeze out just a little extra performance in terms of microdynamics I'd be very pleased.
> ...




I know it is slightly OT, but what you say has some validity. Which is why  many audiophiles DON'T plug directly into the wall. Some redo the wiring and outlets with high grade electrical components. Personally, my main stereo IS plugged into a Fuhrman power conditioner, and the outlets are hospital grade (and you thought I was a scholar...). And, my computer rig is also plugged into a power bank, and the amp (the MicroZOTL is in the computer system at present) is also plugged into a Fuhrman power conditioner. Talk about OCD...I actually have the LC, in the bedroom system, just plugged into a regular wall outlet for now (only so much one can do).


----------



## Maconi

Without going too far off-topic, from what I can gather it's all about distortion. A lot of people will say a cable or something like a USB cleaner makes everything sound "better" when in reality it's just adding distortion that is pleasant to their ears (similar to tubes in a way).
  
 Unless you have a lot of money to spend I'd just avoid it all as it gets ridiculously expensive trying to "perfect" the entire chain. Focus on the main components (like the Liquid Carbon) IMO.


----------



## Hansotek

I've been playing with the LC and HD800 (balanced) for most of the day. A few quick impressions, because I know a lot of folks were asking. Chain: MacBook Pro running Tidal via Amarra > Bimby > LC

Impressions:
Nice warm sound for HD800. Similar in someways to AGD Master-9. A little less polite in the treble compared to the M9, which is uber smooth (but costs nearly 3x as much with shipping and extras). Better overall macro impact on the LC. Never going to be a bass head can, but if you're already familiar with the HD800, it satisfies. Slight bit of warmth from LC helps the mids for sure. 

Soundstage is very 3D, especially when it comes to height. Very good bubble shape - not the widest or deepest I have heard the 800, but very hard to complain because it is staged so evenly. 

I know the big questions are probably still around the treble, so I'll add a couple of extra notes here... 

Will the amp substitute for an Anax mod or some EQ? No. Not really... But it depends on how sensitive you are. I made impressions above stock, but I've been playing with EQ for a bit now, and this combo gets even better with a little parametric TLC. FWIW, I have mine EQed down a little bit on the treble peak (-3.5db) and boosted a touch in the bass (slow rise of +0 at 100hz to +2.5db at 32hz) and I couldn't imagine wanting more out of a sound sig. I mean, with a little touch of EQ, this is about as good as it gets!


----------



## Hansotek

A few quick notes on the LC and TH-X00 pairing:

This can go either way on you. For whatever reason, the TH-X00 seems to be oddly finicky amps, particularly those of the warmer variety. It sounds great with the Creative X7 and the Burson HA-160 (both brighter sounding amps) but gets a bit uneven with warmer amps like the LC and AGD Master-9. Subbass can lose control at times. On other songs, it is absolutely fine and there is no problem at all. Quite odd.


----------



## Hansotek

And here are a couple of impressions with the HE-400 (running balanced with Moon Audio Silver Dragon):

Absolutely superb pairing. The mids! The bass! Attack and decay are just wonderful and the warm, impactful nature of the LC leads to a very textured and tactile experience. I've been yammering on for weeks about how this (now discontinued) headphone is a sleeping giant that can really excel when paired with a good cable and a flagship TOTL amp. The LC definitely starts to show you what it can do. I wouldn't mind just a touch more in terms of microdynamics (this prompted my question earlier), compared to TOTL offerings, but it's hard (and probably unfair) to complain much when the LC gets so close for $599. I really like this pairing!


----------



## x RELIC x

maconi said:


> Without going too far off-topic,* from what I can gather it's all about distortion. A lot of people will say a cable or something like a USB cleaner makes everything sound "better" when in reality it's just adding distortion that is pleasant to their ears (similar to tubes in a way).*
> 
> Unless you have a lot of money to spend I'd just avoid it all as it gets ridiculously expensive trying to "perfect" the entire chain. Focus on the main components (like the Liquid Carbon) IMO.




This is exactly what Rob Watts was saying about different cables with his Hugo and Mojo. It's more about RF noise and distortion than technical improvements. 

With my lowly leftover PC power cord and non-über interconnect cables I find the Liquid Carbon to be very enjoyable. :wink_face:


----------



## f0oster

hansotek said:


> Yeah, I'm kinda wondering how a cord like the Pangea or Audioquest compares to the typical $10 monoprice. On some stuff it doesn't matter so much, but if I could squeeze out just a little extra performance in terms of microdynamics I'd be very pleased.
> 
> It tends to become slightly greyer at lower volume (which is all Class-A operation), hence my theory that the cable may be the remedy.
> 
> ...


 
 To be honest I really doubt you will notice any difference at all with an upgraded power cable. My opinion on the topic is obviously quite clear from saying that, but IMO the money is better spent elsewhere. I bought a thick, nice quality handmade power cable (solely for the visual aspect) and have not observed any difference at all. In saying that, I never expected to observe any differences in the first place.
  
 I suppose I could say YMMV, but in this instance I don't actually think it will at all. I would highly doubt the wiring in your house is of an 'audiophile grade'. If anything was going to be providing any improvement in that area at all I would suggest it may be power cleaning, but I wouldn't expect you will notice significant audible difference, if any at all. Very expensive with lots of uncertainties IMO.


----------



## ying

I have had an early impression with the LC but after the 200 hr burn in can make a conclusion. Gear is the same as the previous post. 

Teac UD 301
Liquid Carbon
Audioquest Cinnamon usb
Furutech DIY Xlr refer to my previous for part. 

Burn in 200hrs and more now

as mentioned in previous post how happy I was with the LC, it just got even better. If any of you guys own an Etymotic Er4 definitely pair it with the LC. The LC soundstage for the er4 is incredible now. It keeps me reaching for the er4 instead of my HD800. The er4 soundstage has improve incrediblly now it sounds 3D in a way and it has smooth and gave more warmth to it. I mean that pairing is great with the HD800 and it sounds awesome but the increase in performance for the er4 is just unbelievable. I am not quite sure how it sounds with higher iems but for the er4 it does heck of a job. 

Enjoy guys!!!


----------



## tha_dude

Can anyone comment on how the LC compares to the Beta 22?


----------



## cskippy

Man I'm at or past the 150 burn in but am still apprehensive about using single ended headphones.  I've tried the HD650 and the TH-X00 and both sound fantastic with the Carbon but I still wonder if there is an issue using only part of the amps circuitry and getting uneven aging of components?


----------



## doctorjazz

Don't know if it would be bad long term, though I'd guess not. I have 1 pair of headphones that are balanced, the HEK. I use my single ended acs Encore through the LC much more often, sounds really nice. Eventually EVERYTHING wears out...
On that cheerful thought, HAPPY NEW YEAR!


----------



## cskippy

Thanks, I know that Alex would demo the Carbon with everything so it should be alright.  I just need to find a cable for my HD650 that isn't as much as the headphone.  Happy New Year to you too!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sheldaze

I think my homework assignment was to listen to my (new-to-me) HD800 balanced from the Liquid Carbon, while fed sound from a few different DACs and DAPs. Unfortunately my DAPs both decided to take a vacation, so I'm only now getting back to the thread. In my preferred order from least-liked to most-liked:
  

Chord Mojo - this DAC seemed to have the poorest balance from its lowest to its highest frequency. It seems a little forward on the high, which is an attribute I appreciated with my HD650 headphones. It was the only setup that made the HD800 seem a little bright, through the Liquid Carbon. There's lots of detail, which I love when it is executed correctly. The Mojo does this! It only loses to the other two options in terms of frequency balance. I'll need to listen to the naked Mojo into HD800 at some point.
Pono - this only beats out the Mojo due to a better low to high frequency balance. Details are definitely dialed back - this is the least detailed of the three options. And, at the same time as I would claim the details are a little less, the details that come through are slightly more etched. Sometimes when reading a review, one might conclude that there are dramatic differences between products. That is not the case - only in direct comparison would I use the words dialed back and etched to describe the sound. The sound is really quite good enough to be end-game. I could easily listen to this for hours!
Schiit Gungnir Multibit (balanced) - there's more meat to the sound. The sound is balanced from the highs to the lows. Perhaps there is less detail than the Mojo, but I find the Mojo's concept of details to often be false - perhaps a little more processed into existence than really there in the recording. Again, don't read too much into this - I like the Mojo. And it might be more interesting to compare the level of detail between the Mojo and my Yggdrasil, to see if perhaps the Gungnir is actually just a little dialed back.
  
 TL;DR - Mojo has the most detail, but seems a little hot on the treble. Pono beats it (to my ears) by being more balanced, and is good enough for end-game into the Liquid Carbon. Gumby adds more depth to the individual sounds, and is my end-game (for today) with my non-planar headphones (i.e. HD800).


----------



## Youth

Have you tried the DAC-19?


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> Have you tried the DAC-19?


 
 I'd love to hear it, but no one at the local meets has one.


----------



## sling5s

sheldaze said:


> I think my homework assignment was to listen to my (new-to-me) HD800 balanced from the Liquid Carbon, while fed sound from a few different DACs and DAPs. Unfortunately my DAPs both decided to take a vacation, so I'm only now getting back to the thread. In my preferred order from least-liked to most-liked:
> 
> 
> Chord Mojo - this DAC seemed to have the poorest balance from its lowest to its highest frequency. It seems a little forward on the high, which is an attribute I appreciated with my HD650 headphones. It was the only setup that made the HD800 seem a little bright, through the Liquid Carbon. There's lots of detail, which I love when it is executed correctly. The Mojo does this! It only loses to the other two options in terms of frequency balance. I'll need to listen to the naked Mojo into HD800 at some point.
> ...



I found the Mojo slightly on the bright side too compared to the dac19. I found dac19 best for hd800. All the details were there but more relaxed presentation compared to the forward presentation of the Mojo. But I like both Dac 19 and Mojo for different reasons.


----------



## Stillhart

sheldaze said:


> Schiit Gungnir Multibit (balanced) - there's more meat to the sound. The sound is balanced from the highs to the lows. Perhaps there is less detail than the Mojo, but* I find the Mojo's concept of details to often be false - perhaps a little more processed into existence than really there in the recording*. Again, don't read too much into this - I like the Mojo. And it might be more interesting to compare the level of detail between the Mojo and my Yggdrasil, to see if perhaps the Gungnir is actually just a little dialed back.


 
  
 This is a good example of D-S vs R2R right here.  That sort of "false detail" is a symptom of both the forward highs and the digital D-S chip.  It's going to be even more obvious with something like a Sabre chip.
  
 Nice comparisons.  Interesting that you find the Mojo more resolving but prefer the Pono due to its more balanced presentation.  I'm assuming this is simply because forward treble on the bright HD800 can be awful.  On other headphones, I'd guess you'd prefer the Mojo.


----------



## sheldaze

stillhart said:


> This is a good example of D-S vs R2R right here.  That sort of "false detail" is a symptom of both the forward highs and the digital D-S chip.  It's going to be even more obvious with something like a Sabre chip.
> 
> Nice comparisons.  Interesting that you find the Mojo more resolving but prefer the Pono due to its more balanced presentation.  I'm assuming this is simply because *forward treble on the bright HD800 can be awful*.  On other headphones, I'd guess you'd prefer the Mojo.


 
 Yes! I can hear plenty of detail just from the design of the headphones. Any boosted treble, even if it is clean, does me no favors on the HD800.
 And I don't know if I would prefer the Mojo over the R2R, even with a dark headphone like the HD650. I've been very surprised at what I prefer, and the _musical_ reasons why, of late. I'll give it a whirl later.


----------



## Stillhart

sheldaze said:


> Yes! I can hear plenty of detail just from the design of the headphones. Any boosted treble, even if it is clean, does me no favors on the HD800.
> And I don't know if I would prefer the Mojo over the R2R, even with a dark headphone like the HD650. I've been very surprised at what I prefer, and the _musical_ reasons why, of late. I'll give it a whirl later.


 
  
 Sorry, I meant Mojo vs Pono.  I have no doubt that the GMB is better than either of those two.


----------



## santacore

If you're not already running the Pono in balanced output mode, you should.


----------



## doctorjazz

I love my Pono, use it balanced with sine headphones (HEK, LE Zen V2), and single ended into LC (don't have the balanced cables for that at this point). I'm on the Mojo tour, it will be interesting to compare (different headphones, could be different impressions. Mostly use acs Encore ciem and the HEK out of the LC. Bright is definitely NOT how I would describe either of these).


----------



## sheldaze

I used the mini-to-mini cable that came with my HeadRoom Total AirHead, connected from the Pono line output into the 3.5mm input on the rear of the Liquid Carbon.
 I think you're talking about using the Pono directly into a headphone?


----------



## yage

sheldaze said:


> I used the mini-to-mini cable that came with my HeadRoom Total AirHead, connected from the Pono line output into the 3.5mm input on the rear of the Liquid Carbon.
> I think you're talking about using the Pono directly into a headphone?


 
  
 It might be interesting to get (or make) a 3.5 mm to 3 pin XLR cable to connect the Pono balanced to the LC. After hearing your Pono in balanced mode at the last D.C. mini-meet, I wouldn't want it any other way.


----------



## doctorjazz

I use it line out single ended into the LC, (balanced with 2 headphones direct), but I'm also curious how balanced cables into the LC would sound.


----------



## sheldaze

What the Doctor does is what I do, too. I have (too) many custom Pono cables, including one for HD650, one for EL-8, and another to go from dual 3.5.mm to 4-pin XLR. All you need is something like the link below to feed into the balanced part of the Liquid Carbon:
  
https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/4-pin-dual-3-pin-adaptor-cable
  
 The question is can Pono even support *balanced line-out*? I've been fighting Pono issues the past two days (and still fighting playlist import, which is actually just filename recognition in a Pono playlist), and I'm just none-too-eager to go digging deeper into the bowels of Pono - great player, but terrible firmware/software 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I say we just trust in Cavalli and the summation, for now


----------



## s7uart

Out of curiosity what are people's cable preference for connecting Mojo to the LC? 3.5mm jack to jack or 3.5mm jack to 2 phonos? Thanks in advance.


----------



## x RELIC x

sheldaze said:


> I think my homework assignment was to listen to my (new-to-me) HD800 balanced from the Liquid Carbon, while fed sound from a few different DACs and DAPs. Unfortunately my DAPs both decided to take a vacation, so I'm only now getting back to the thread. In my preferred order from least-liked to most-liked:
> 
> 
> Chord Mojo - this DAC seemed to have the poorest balance from its lowest to its highest frequency. It seems a little forward on the high, which is an attribute I appreciated with my HD650 headphones. It was the only setup that made the HD800 seem a little bright, through the Liquid Carbon. There's lots of detail, which I love when it is executed correctly. The Mojo does this! It only loses to the other two options in terms of frequency balance. I'll need to listen to the naked Mojo into HD800 at some point.
> ...




Good summary and I appreciate your assertion that's it's a preferred frequency balance. When I had the Mojo the synergy with the LCD-XC was also bright and this really surprised me. Not my favourite pairing. When I compared the DAC-19 to the Mojo I found both to be quite capable at retrieving details, but in slightly different ways. Researching more in to what the technicalities of the Mojo are I'm confident that it's not really exaggerating detail, but rather digging deeper in the mix. Some headphones I found just might not get along with that and the HD800 and XC seem to be in that camp for some. Others love it. 

That said, the Liquid Carbon is also rather transparent to the source adding more macro dynamics to the mix so I can see how it may be pushed even further over the top. I'll be able to test the Mojo with the Liquid Carbon soon-ish and I'm looking forward to doing more comparisons.


----------



## doctorjazz

sheldaze said:


> What the Doctor does is what I do, too. I have (too) many custom Pono cables, including one for HD650, one for EL-8, and another to go from dual 3.5.mm to 4-pin XLR. All you need is something like the link below to feed into the balanced part of the Liquid Carbon:
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/4-pin-dual-3-pin-adaptor-cable
> 
> ...




I've read somewhere that you can run the Pono balanced into, say, a preamp, but it seems to me you'd be "double amping", it's not really line out that way.
Sorry you're having UI/software problems with the Pono...I've found it really easy to use, but I don't use playlists much. Generally either pay albums or go shuffle and let the player make the choices.


----------



## yage

doctorjazz said:


> I've read somewhere that you can run the Pono balanced into, say, a preamp, but it seems to me you'd be "double amping", it's not really line out that way.
> Sorry you're having UI/software problems with the Pono...I've found it really easy to use, but I don't use playlists much. Generally either pay albums or go shuffle and let the player make the choices.


 

 I don't think there should be problem running a Pono into a preamp since the voltage maxes out around 1 V at full volume per Stereophile's measurements. This would double with a balanced output so you're looking at a normal single-ended voltage level at that point.
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/pono-ponoplayer-portable-music-player-measurements#BIEyt4L6LLY9dooM.97


----------



## mscott58

sheldaze said:


> I think my homework assignment was to listen to my (new-to-me) HD800 balanced from the Liquid Carbon, while fed sound from a few different DACs and DAPs. Unfortunately my DAPs both decided to take a vacation, so I'm only now getting back to the thread. In my preferred order from least-liked to most-liked:
> 
> 
> Chord Mojo - this DAC seemed to have the poorest balance from its lowest to its highest frequency. It seems a little forward on the high, which is an attribute I appreciated with my HD650 headphones. It was the only setup that made the HD800 seem a little bright, through the Liquid Carbon. There's lots of detail, which I love when it is executed correctly. The Mojo does this! It only loses to the other two options in terms of frequency balance. I'll need to listen to the naked Mojo into HD800 at some point.
> ...


 
 While I have no doubt that the HD800's might have the issues you talk about with the Mojo, I've had no such challenges in my experience with the Mojo and the LCD-3's, Noble K10's and Final Audio Design Sonorous VI's. In fact the Mojo's balances very well with HP's that might be considered a little "darker" such as the LCD-3's and K10's. Cheers and Happy New Years


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, I know everyone has been waiting for my power cord assessment with baited breath, probably couldn't enjoy the New Year celebrations due to anxiety and constantly checking your phones to see if I posted my impressions yet. I'm sorry to have put you all through this misery , but your suffering is about to end. I pulled out some power cords, plugged my balanced HE-1000 (Norne Zoetic cable) into the LC, plugged my Pono into the LC, and started a comparison. I actually don't have a ton of generic power cords sitting around, so I took the power cord off my Oppo DVD player (older model), came with it (I use it as a transport to my DAC), and proceeded to compare. I don't know the details about this cord, but I figure since it's included with the player, it isn't anything special. 

OK, so, I had my Pangea cable at the ready, and went back and forth, listening to a high resolution Hotel California download I have on my Pono. It became obvious to me the change of power cords DID affect the sound (I know I'm going to hear from the haters on this, but that's what I hear. I didn't do double blind testing, I didn't match spl's, just pulled one cord out, put in the other. Now, the sound isn't awful with the generic cord, and incredible with the high priced spread...it is perfectly listenable with the generic cord. The differences aren't as big as, say, going from a phone to separate good source components. But it is really there. At least to my aging, placebo prone ears...). The Pangea sounded better to me. It had a deeper soundstage, more air surrounding the instruments, more texture to the instruments. The generic cable had a kind of treble haze, an electronic haze, over the stage and the instruments, making it sound less real, more hifi. 

So, this got me curious, decided to move up 1 level in system quality. Went to the guest room, PC/LH Labs 2G usb cable/REgen/Geek Out Special Edition. The amps were all plugged into a Furman power conditioner (forget the model, one of the lower ones in the line, M-8X2 it says on the front). I decided to get a power cord from my main system in the Living room as well, do this thing from both ends, so I disconnected the Mojo Audio Enigma Power cord (list $349.95, got it used from Mojo Audio, don't remember what I paid, use it for my Peachtree GrandPre Preamp), figured I'd see what happens when you go up the food chain from the Pangea. I listened to some Hi Rez downloads (Hotel California again, Omer Avital Quinted Live At Smalls "Anthem To Life", Mavis Staples One True Vine "What Are They Doing In Heaven Today", then a CD rip to FLAC of Laura Cantrell No Way There From Here, started with "Starry Skies", but was digging it so much just let it keep running, still have it on now, "I Can't Wait" playing, which is wonderful, btw...), OK you've got the set up, the payoff is less than the set up. Pretty much heard the same things I heard from the Pono set up. The generic cord sounded flatter, that tizziness of the treble, the electronic haze, was there, depth less, space between instruments not as apparent or "dark/empty" sounding as with the Pangea. With the Pangea, the instruments had more reality and texture. Interestingly, while the depth was forshortened, the width seemed to be increased with the generic cable. OK, so what do you get with the Mojo cable. More of the same improvements, though not as dramatic an improvement as going from generic to Pangea. Treble is smoother, cymbals have less artificial sizzle, depth is still a bit deeper, voices have more 3D quality, sound more like they come from bodies in space, some of the width is back (not sure if it was same as generic, difficult to tell, a bit more than the Pangea, though). 

OK, I'm not telling anyone to go spend $$400 on a power cable for their new $600 amp, and the money is probably better spent on better headphones it they need upgrading (or a better amp...time to mention my MicroZOTL2 here  ). But there is no question to me that there is improvement in both named cords over the generic cable. I'd say, on the LC, the Pangea probably gets you 70-80% of the way to the Mojo...the further improvements are small, and I'm not sure I'd be able to consistent tell the Pangea and the Mojo on blind testing, likely not. But it is there, small as it is. I'm pretty sure I'd pick the generic cable out against the other 2, though. It is easy, since it is NOT very expensive, to recommend the Pangea and the LC, as far as I'm concerned. (there are some practical issues, as some have already mentioned. The cord is thick, stiff, and heavier than the LC. I haven't found it a big problem, but is some spaces it may be an issue). 

OK, time for disclaimers and miscellaneous acronyms: FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, HAND, B4N, LSMFT (you have to be a certain age to know that one), AWTEW (all's well that ends well), hasta pasta, peace be with you, don't hurt me, please, if you have to throw something at me, make it money :rolleyes:


----------



## Stillhart

My dad listens to old-time radio all the damn time.  Lucky Strike means fine tobacco!
  
 Also, thanks for your impressions and for taking the time to do such a thorough test and writeup.  For $60 (or whatever, there are a few varieties to choose from) it might be fun to test it out.  The nice thing about buying power cables, USB cables or interconnects (as @HiFiGuy528 often points out) is that you can always use them when you upgrade your other components.  They're a good long-term investment (assuming you hear the benefits, etc etc).
  
 And besides, I have a Liquid Crimson that's MUCH more expensive than the Liquid Carbon.  Spending $60 to upgrade that and hear a noticeable difference is an easy sell. (Again, assuming I hear a difference.)  Amazon has a great return policy so it's kind of a no-risk thing...


----------



## Hansotek

Thank you so much doctorjazz for the impressions. Very enlightening, and it confirms some of my suspicions on those areas I was hoping to clean up. Much appreciated!


----------



## nicolo

I bought some heavily discounted Cabledyne power and XLR cables last year from a friend who was selling off his entire system before moving. I also had some 14 gauge power cable which i compared them to then. When connected to my amp and LS50 speakers, they made a distinct difference, especially in the bass region. Bass was punchier, better defined with no overhang and more dynamic. The midrange was cleaner while the highs seemed a bit airier and less harsh. Imaging was absolutely rock solid. t just felt that a thin veil had been lifted.
  
 So yes, power cables do make a difference. But since i live in an area where power supply is generally not very clean, the difference was immediately obvious, and less so when i got a power conditioner. So if the area you live in has stable power, you probably will not notice any difference between generic and custom (read expensive) power cables.


----------



## Shini44

nicolo said:


> I bought some heavily discounted Cabledyne power and XLR cables last year from a friend who was selling off his entire system before moving. I also had some 14 gauge power cable which i compared them to then. When connected to my amp and LS50 speakers, they made a distinct difference, especially in the bass region. Bass was punchier, better defined with no overhang and more dynamic. The midrange was cleaner while the highs seemed a bit airier and less harsh. Imaging was absolutely rock solid. t just felt that a thin veil had been lifted.
> 
> So yes, power cables do make a difference. But since i live in an area where power supply is generally not very clean, the difference was immediately obvious, and less so when i got a power conditioner. So if the area you live in has stable power, you probably will not notice any difference between generic and custom (read expensive) power cables.


 
 like Pangea Audio and Audioquest 50-70$ power cables? i might use the LC for sure, since here the electricity is with a similar case to yours
  
  
 was your cables more expensive? which brand?


----------



## doctorjazz

I heard a difference even plugged into a power conditioner (albeit a not-that-expensive one). Haven't compared other <$100 cords, could have different sound sigs, May not, don't know. Again, I did hear small improvements going up to the Mojo, but definitely not enough to justify for the LC (I haven't done the A-B on my $3000 preamp, maybe the differences between the Pangaea and the Mojo are more pronounced, as the electronics are more revealing, but I don't know (it's a royal PIA to get behind the rack and swap cables back and forth a hundred times the way I did with the LC). Final thought...I'm using the HE-1000, which is a very revealing beast...the differences may be less noticeable with, say, the Q701 (or maybe not, they run a bit bright), or with the Senn 650, don't know. The HEK is the only full size can I have available balanced with the right termination to use with the LC, so that's what I went with. BECAUSE it is so revealing, though, I could be able to hear stronger differences, but I believe a good set of headphones will still show the difference. Hey, it's $60 to bring the performance of the LC up a notch...you could do much worse! If you don't hear a difference (again, not gonna be day and night), just throw those dollars at me


----------



## MattTCG

So I've had the LC for about a month and I thought that I'd chime in with a few thoughts.
  
 *LC has a rare ability to deliver a signature that is both resolving and musical. Music sounds both refined, delicate with great low level detail and also dynamic even when played at softer levels. But it always seems "balanced" and in control. 
  
 *The form factor is somewhat diminutive and is not indicative of what this amp is able to deliver. For me, the smaller size means nothing. I would have preferred an amp with a little more girth to give it some substance on my desk. LC carbon runs quite warm and a bigger chassis would have certainly helped to maintain appropriate temperature levels. Put the internals in something like an Asgard 2 chassis and that would have been ideal. Others will have different preferences here of course. I'd like to use one of my better power cables on this amp but the rigidity of better power cables don't jive well with this amp.
  
 *The amp will scale nicely with better dacs. I've used an ifi idsd micro to Gumby and the LC responded nicely to both. My point here is not to be afraid to spend money on a better dac...LC will reward you for it. Some might think it lunacy to pair a Gumby with an amp costing half the money. It's not. The LC will take advantage of every red cent spent on the Gumby IMO. 
  
 *LC has an uncanny ability to be headphone agnostic. It just doesn't seem to have "a signature" that is tailored toward a particular kind of headphone. It sounds just as magical with an hd650 as it does with an hd800. The only footnote that I'll make here is that if you have hard to drive planars, hek, he6 or similar, then the LC might not be an end game solution. 
  
 *The versatility of the LC is impressive. Both in terms of it's technical abilities and versatility with such a broad range of headphones. The phase splitter is an exceptionally useful feature.  
  
 *The best results from LC carbon will come from the balanced output. So go ahead and get your balanced cables for those headphones because this is where you'll want to be on the LC. Lower noise floor, more dynamic, better grip on the gripe etc. The balanced output is where the true magic and ultimate enjoyment happens with the LC. 
  
 *So what's wrong with the LC? In truth, not much. At $600 it's not cheap, but honestly competes with amps that cost 2x as much. You get what you pay for the LC and much more. I would have preferred a bigger heftier chassis but that's my personal preference. Lastly the ugly side note is my disappointment in the process from design to delivery. I pre-ordered this amp on day one. After the second delay, I canceled. And my cancellation was not for the delays, I certainly expected them. It was simply for the way that the delays were handled and the way information was communicated. It just didn't sit well with me, at all. There are still people looking at tracking numbers that don't show any movement. All the while Cavalli remains silent to a large degree. There are a few grievous errors that you avoid at all cost in business (I've owned a business for nearly 20 years now) and at the top faux pas list is never, ever ignore your customers. In fairness, I think that this company struggled with manufacturing a mass quantity product and hopefully have learned some things along the way. 
  
 *Can the LC be better/improved on? You betcha. A larger chassis would give Cavalli more design freedoms and choices with less compromises. A larger higher quality or even separate PSU would undoubtedly improve the LC. I for one, would very much be in favor of a Liquid Carbon mkii. Something around $999. Maybe even a tube option. Could be a giant killer.


----------



## Youth

matttcg said:


> I'd like to use one of my better power cables on this amp but the rigidity of better power cables don't jive well with this amp.


 
  
 What exactly do you mean?


----------



## doctorjazz

As noted above, I am using the Pangaea power cord, but I can ser in sine situations the stiffness and weight of the cord, combined with the light weight of the amp, could make for logistical and placement problems. If you can manage it, though, it is worth it. I also wonder what an LC with an upgraded, outboard power supply, would sound like. I have actually promised to compare the LC to the Ray Samuels HR-2 I have, never got around to it (the RSA has a really beefy external power supply), maybe another New Year weekend project...


----------



## sahmen

I think there might be a some confusion in the above analysis between the difference made by power conditioners and those made by power cords, unless I am not reading something correctly...  Or let me put it in another way... I actually appreciate the effort the Doctor has made to help sort this matter out, except that I remain unsure what to attribute to the cables themselves and what to attribute to a power conditioner like the "Furman" unit he mentions.
  
 I would like to know the difference between generic and boutique power cords going from wall outlet to components without the interference of any power conditioners...  It is the only way to verify the claims of boutique power cords, I think, and to begin accounting for differences the claim to bring to the table.
  
 I have no quarrel at all with any conditioners that claim to "filter" or "clean-up" the power from the wall, and I have a few of those myself. But those are not power cords, yet personally, what I want to know with some clarity is what the boutique power cords can add to or deduct from the power transported to the wall outlet through the in-wall generic wirings they claim to be different from...
  
 However, as someone said, this might not be the best place to address all these issues...  Besides I hate the idea of asking someone else to do such experiments given the obvious hassles involved..
  
 Be that as it may, thanks to the Doc for his efforts...


----------



## sheldaze

Hey - you guys just brought my 6ft Kimber Kable ASCENT out of retirement!
 And as a bonus, it is actually keeping my LC weighted down. Maybe I don't need those rubber feet? But I do think I need a new LC thread, listing ratio of LC to power cord weight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 My guess is I'm at about 1:1.
  
 EDIT: Sorry for the silliness, probably due to 2nd cup of coffee. On a serious note, the power cord is staying. Through the HD800, the sound is noticeably better.


----------



## doctorjazz

As I noted, the change in power cord directly into a wall outlet was there, and was an improvement. When I use the (relatively inexpensive) Furman power conditioner, I STILL HEAR THE IMPROVEMENTS IN SQ WITH THE BETTER CABLES! I did not go the next step and directly compare things with and without the Furman. Maybe one of these days. It was a lower model, and I really bought it because I needed more outlets, figured I'd splurge a few bucks over the generic power strip. But, I thought my Impressions were fairly straightforward...Maybe you just want other folks to weigh in with their own listening experiences, which is cool


----------



## sheldaze

doctorjazz said:


> As I noted, the change in power cord directly into a wall outlet was there, and was an improvement. When I use the (relatively inexpensive) Furman power conditioner, I STILL HEAR THE IMPROVEMENTS IN SQ WITH THE BETTER CABLES! I did not go the next step and directly compare things with and without the Furman. Maybe one of these days. It was a lower model, and I really bought it because I needed more outlets, figured I'd splurge a few bucks over the generic power strip. But, I thought my Impressions were fairly straightforward...Maybe you just want other folks to weigh in with their own listening experiences, which is cool


 
 If that was to me - no, I like it! I just don't _like_, that I like it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't need any other opinions...something good is definitely happening here. Yet another thing I cannot explain, like REGEN for USB.
  
 I would have preferred to _not_ hear a difference, and been content with my drawer full of power cables. Mais c'est la vie!


----------



## doctorjazz

sheldaze said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > As I noted, the change in power cord directly into a wall outlet was there, and was an improvement. When I use the (relatively inexpensive) Furman power conditioner, I STILL HEAR THE IMPROVEMENTS IN SQ WITH THE BETTER CABLES! I did not go the next step and directly compare things with and without the Furman. Maybe one of these days. It was a lower model, and I really bought it because I needed more outlets, figured I'd splurge a few bucks over the generic power strip. But, I thought my Impressions were fairly straightforward...Maybe you just want other folks to weigh in with their own listening experiences, which is cool
> ...




I'm with you on the REgen, didn't know what to expect, put it into the PC system, figured my Geek Out Special Edition femto clocks took care of timing and jitter issues, hard the coherence and couldn't take it out.


----------



## doctorjazz

It was actually the comment by @sahmen was what prompted my response, btw...


----------



## sahmen

doctorjazz said:


> It was actually the comment by @sahmen was what prompted my response, btw...


 
 Hey Doc:  I just decided to try out a couple of pangea cables, which are not terribly expensive... just as a look-see...  I am just trying to figure out what the difference between their AC 14 cables and their AC 14SE MK II power cables is supposed to be, and what sq difference the two are supposed to make.
  
  The AC 14 is supposed to be constructed with 99.99% purity OFC conductors, whereas the AC 14SE MK II is made of "smooth sounding Cardas Grade One copper."
  
 I admit that the sceptic in me is already screaming "Snake Oil" at these subtle differences between  "copper" and "copper" (as in "Oxygen Free" vs "Cardas grade one"), but I also want to approach this with as much open-mindedness as I can muster... If they do indeed bring sonic enhancements to the table as compared to the generic cables I use, (and I sincerely hope they do), there is no reason to deny them to the audio enthusiast in me who is insatiable for all kinds of sonic improvements...
  
 I do not want to be a prisoner of my own skepticism, is the point I am trying to make...


----------



## doctorjazz

Truth is, I haven't tried our every power or audio cable out there, nobody has. If you can audition, that is always the best way to decide. I hear differences in cables, for instance (another contested issue) , but I have had times where the new cable actually made things sound WORSE. Hearing is believing, don't take my word for it if you have the option to hear for yourself. The problem is, it isn't always easy to audition.


----------



## Peridot

sahmen said:


> I admit that the sceptic in me is already screaming "Snake Oil" at these subtle differences between  "copper" and "copper" (as in "Oxygen Free" vs "Cardas grade one"), but I also want to approach this with as much open-mindedness as I can muster... If they do indeed bring sonic enhancements to the table as compared to the generic cables I use, (and I sincerely hope they do), there is no reason to deny them to the audio enthusiast in me who is insatiable for all kinds of sonic improvements...


 
  
 Well you could satisfy yourself that the Cardas wire is at least produced under exacting quality control standards. The OFC wire used in most audio cables is a mass-produced product procured to a higher specification. I know from experience in other sectors that the quality control standards associated with cable manufacture are very poor, so I wouldn't trust that the end product is actually any different from 'generic'.
  
 Of course a single metre or so of 'high quality' copper inserted in the hundreds of metres of the circuit that supplies your equipment cannot make any difference, so if there is a sonic improvement it must come from some other feature of the power cord, not the purity of the copper.
  
 You could always try them both and return one.


----------



## yage

doctorjazz said:


> Truth is, I haven't tried our every power or audio cable out there, nobody has. If you can audition, that is always the best way to decide. I hear differences in cables, for instance (another contested issue) , but I have had times where the new cable actually made things sound WORSE.


 
  
 I've definitely encountered this scenario - particularly with cables that have boxes of active and/or passive components in the signal path.
  
 Re: aftermarket power cords - I use them in my main stereo and my headphone system. I hear subtle but important differences. One time I took out all the aftermarket power cables and found that the soundstage flattened and dynamics were a bit muted. The system lacked that last bit of life that conveyed a sense of realism to the reproduction. I also built my own power cord to use on an Arcam CD33 disc player. With the new power cord, the CD33 had a noticeable increase in dynamic slam and bass presence.
  
 I don't think fancy cabling is absolutely necessary, but they sure can add a nice finishing touch on a system.


----------



## RKML0007

Just performed a very impressive test on the LC highlighting how awesome its phase splitter is:

Master-11 > XLR > LC
Master-11 > RCA > LC

The LC's front panel BAL/SE button allowed for AB comparison to my heart's content and I could not discern any difference in the resulting output from the LC between the two source connection types. I stumbled onto this test because I wanted to rule out any XLR advantage the Master-11 might have when comparing to 2Qute SE. I am satisfied that comparing these two fine DAC's through the LC is fair and representative of their respective qualities. The LC is quite capable in helping me evaluate the two DAC's. Again, that front panel button is super useful and the LC's phase splitter is the real deal!


----------



## Jozurr

rkml0007 said:


> Just performed a very impressive test on the LC highlighting how awesome its phase splitter is:
> 
> Master-11 > XLR > LC
> Master-11 > RCA > LC
> ...


 
  
 Can you please post your impressions of the 2Qute vs the Master 11 as well


----------



## RKML0007

I only have about 3 days continuous burn-in on the 2Qute. The Master-11 hasnt had much dedicated burn-in either but it's been in service casually since Dec. 15.

At present, both DAC's sound effortless and supremely musical through the LC. To my ears they are more similar to one another than they are different. Each has the innate ability to take you where the music leads. Neither DAC imparts itself as warmer nor brighter than the other through the LC. Both DAC's render spatial cues with appropriate soundstage directivity and instrument placement throughout all axes. The Master-11 and 2Qute are as natural and organic as I have come to know given my limited experience where desktop DAC's are concerned. However, I have been able to hear a very subtle difference in sparkle and presence around female vocals against acoustic accompaniment that makes the Master-11 ever so slightly more pleasing than the 2Qute through the LC during hypercritical comparison for this specific genre of music. For others, I could not consistently tell them apart. Both DAC's deliver the goods and have exceeded my expectations. My only hope was that the 2Qute would pair well with the LC. This combo is physically diminutive and instills complete confidence when choosing it for transportable listening pleasure that helps me forget about the gear and connect emotionally with the music. This was the primary requirement I had for each of my rigs and I'm happy to report that I can transition between them without reservation or favor. 

Disclaimer - The Master-11 on its own through its integrated amp section and intended usage has separate impressions and will save for another thread!


----------



## Peridot

rkml0007 said:


> I only have about 3 days continuous burn-in on the 2Qute. The Master-11 hasnt had much dedicated burn-in either but it's been in service casually since Dec. 15.
> 
> At present, both DAC's sound effortless and supremely musical through the LC. To my ears they are more similar to one another than they are different. Each has the innate ability to take you where the music leads. Neither DAC imparts itself as warmer nor brighter than the other through the LC. Both DAC's render spatial cues with appropriate soundstage directivity and instrument placement throughout all axes. The Master-11 and 2Qute are as natural and organic as I have come to know given my limited experience where desktop DAC's are concerned. However, I have been able to hear a very subtle difference in sparkle and presence around female vocals against acoustic accompaniment that makes the Master-11 ever so slightly more pleasing than the 2Qute through the LC during hypercritical comparison for this specific genre of music. For others, I could not consistently tell them apart. Both DAC's deliver the goods and have exceeded my expectations. My only hope was that the 2Qute would pair well with the LC. This combo is physically diminutive and instills complete confidence when choosing it for transportable listening pleasure that helps me forget about the gear and connect emotionally with the music. This was the primary requirement I had for each of my rigs and I'm happy to report that I can transition between them without reservation or favor.
> 
> Disclaimer - The Master-11 on its own through its integrated amp section and intended usage has separate impressions and will save for another thread!


 
  
 That is the most stunningly concise use of the English language I have seen in a long time.
  
 Even if I had no interest in DACs, I would derive great pleasure from reading the review.


----------



## Jhya

rkml0007 said:


> I only have about 3 days continuous burn-in on the 2Qute. The Master-11 hasnt had much dedicated burn-in either but it's been in service casually since Dec. 15.
> 
> At present, both DAC's sound effortless and supremely musical through the LC. To my ears they are more similar to one another than they are different. Each has the innate ability to take you where the music leads. Neither DAC imparts itself as warmer nor brighter than the other through the LC. Both DAC's render spatial cues with appropriate soundstage directivity and instrument placement throughout all axes. The Master-11 and 2Qute are as natural and organic as I have come to know given my limited experience where desktop DAC's are concerned. However, I have been able to hear a very subtle difference in sparkle and presence around female vocals against acoustic accompaniment that makes the Master-11 ever so slightly more pleasing than the 2Qute through the LC during hypercritical comparison for this specific genre of music. For others, I could not consistently tell them apart. Both DAC's deliver the goods and have exceeded my expectations. My only hope was that the 2Qute would pair well with the LC. This combo is physically diminutive and instills complete confidence when choosing it for transportable listening pleasure that helps me forget about the gear and connect emotionally with the music. This was the primary requirement I had for each of my rigs and I'm happy to report that I can transition between them without reservation or favor.
> 
> Disclaimer - The Master-11 on its own through its integrated amp section and intended usage has separate impressions and will save for another thread!




Excellent comparison.
What is your impression of the LC vs Master 11 amp?


----------



## RKML0007

jhya said:


> What is your impression of the LC vs Master 11 amp?




Comparing the two amps was not straightforward as the previous DAC session. In the spirit of fair play, AB'ing required RCA input swaps between Master-11 and LC fed by 2Qute. This introduced a bit of lag time along with swapping the headphone cable back and forth. Despite the clunky procedure, the merits of each amp were sufficiently observed and isolated. The LC does everything one would expect given its design and intended application. It was my first balanced desktop/transportable amp providing refined power I had never experienced before. I made sure to follow Dr's orders and refrain from any judgment of LC's sound until proper burn-in had been completed. With over 350 hours of continuous music running through it to date, the LC has been the focus of my care and loving concern to ensure it realizes full sonic potential. 

Both amps are highly transparent and allows for unrestricted flow of music - presenting a tightly knit, yet fluid soundscape to the listener that is thoroughly engaging and immersive. The LC fares very well in direct comparison to the Master-11 amp section, only falling reasonably short in terms of absolute blackness and fully robust bottom end. I suspect headroom and power regulation as the prime difference which separates the two from being on more equal footing. In comparison to the LC, the Master-11 demonstrates added finesse and grace as it delivers music with a significantly larger footprint that encompasses each note in space. In practice, the LC succeeds at providing tremendous enjoyment. In my book, it is fully capable to go all twelve rounds and incessantly comes back for more. The LC is indeed a very special amp but don't forget that the Master-11's amp section tells only half the story - its DAC integration was intentionally excluded from comparison!


----------



## kingdixon

I have some questions,

First can 2 headphones be connected at the same time, single and balanced or balanced and balanced ? I remember reading some one bricked the device, but i can't remember whether by connecting 2 inputs or 2 outputs ?

if 2 headphones can be connected, logically the output power will be divided, right ?

As for more impressions, i am hitting now 160 hours of burn in and it just sounds awesome,

I did the burn in with balanced lcd 2.2, and i just tried hd650 single ended and the synergy seems even better then with lcd 2.2, the sound stage with the bit recessed mids and the bass is just amazing .. the only problem is my source zx2 low power, hd650 on high gain and max volume, i feel like i need more volume still, i will just have to go balanced !!


----------



## sling5s

kingdixon said:


> I have some questions,
> 
> First can 2 headphones be connected at the same time, single and balanced or balanced and balanced ? I remember reading some one bricked the device, but i can't remember whether by connecting 2 inputs or 2 outputs ?
> 
> ...


 

 Someone connected their single and balanced headphones at the same time and had to have their LC fixed. Would not recommend.


----------



## kingdixon

sling5s said:


> Someone connected their single and balanced headphones at the same time and had to have their LC fixed. Would not recommend.




k, cool and thanks for the info !


----------



## mscott58

sling5s said:


> Someone connected their single and balanced headphones at the same time and had to have their LC fixed. Would not recommend.




True, while others have done it and not had problems. Personally I tend to err on the side of caution and don't mix outputs. Cheers


----------



## f0oster

kingdixon said:


> I have some questions,
> 
> First can 2 headphones be connected at the same time, single and balanced or balanced and balanced ? I remember reading some one bricked the device, but i can't remember whether by connecting 2 inputs or 2 outputs ?
> 
> ...


 

  
 I still don't think the amp would have ever made it to production if plugging in both balanced and SE outputs at the same time had a risk of 'shorting the unit'. If this was the case though, Alex would have posted about it and it would surely be written in the digital manual.
  
 I expect the one person that had issues plugging in both must have had a faulty unit. I have been using both SE + Balanced inputs at the same time since the day I got the amp.
  
 I am unsure how the power output of the amp is effected. When I plug in a SE headphone the volume does not appear to change, but to be honest I've done very little to no testing on this.


----------



## Peridot

Quote:


f0oster said:


> ...
> 
> If this was the case though, Alex would have posted about it and it would surely be written in the digital manual.
> 
> ...


 
  
 He did ... and said don't do it  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I'll see if I can find the post.
  
 EDIT: I'm completely wrong!
  
 The "don't do it" related to the use of balanced to SE adapters.
  
 On the subject of connecting to both outputs, Alex actually said it was fine:
  


> However, while you can also connect both balanced and SE at the same time, please remember that the SE adds its burden to only half of each amp. This unbalances the amps and will reduce the "common mode" rejection of some noise and harmonics. You're going to ask how much and this depends on the load you stick on the SE jack.


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3390#post_11974887


----------



## kingdixon

f0oster said:


> I still don't think the amp would have ever made it to production if plugging in both balanced and SE outputs at the same time had a risk of 'shorting the unit'. If this was the case though, Alex would have posted about it and it would surely be written in the digital manual.
> 
> I expect the one person that had issues plugging in both must have had a faulty unit. I have been using both SE + Balanced inputs at the same time since the day I got the amp.
> 
> I am unsure how the power output of the amp is effected. When I plug in a SE headphone the volume does not appear to change, but to be honest I've done very little to no testing on this.




Yup, i believe you, its just iam in egypt, and it will be too much for me sending it back, although it would be a nice option to have but i already faced some strange attitude,

Yesterday i was pulling off the single ended headphone while the amp is on and it kinda restarted, power and all lights went off then back on again,

Well thankfully it is working normal, but abit worrying though..


----------



## f0oster

peridot said:


> Quote:
> 
> He did ... and said don't do it
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, also this:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/270#post_12118558


----------



## 3rddimension

The eagle has landed in Greece! I left it warm up for half an hour and connected it to my ifi micro idsd. I unpacked my brand new Forza Noir Hybrid 4pin XLR and connected my Alpha Primes to the Carbon. Fired up Opeth - Pale Communion in Hirez and i am floored by the sound quality! If the carbon sounds like this right out of the box, i can only imagine how it will sound after the burn in. I will follow up with a full impression after the burn in, but i am so amazed i had to post something


----------



## kingdixon

one more question,
  
 if i want to try my iems, i have the 3.5 to 6.3 mm converter, will this work for normal 3.5 and also 3.5 trrs ? or it will short the unit with trrs ?


----------



## Mr Rick

kingdixon said:


> Yup, i believe you, its just iam in egypt, and it will be too much for me sending it back, although it would be a nice option to have but i already faced some strange attitude,
> 
> Yesterday i was pulling off the single ended headphone while the amp is on and it kinda restarted, power and all lights went off then back on again,
> 
> Well thankfully it is working normal, but abit worrying though..


 
  
 An odd occurrence, but it happened to me as well. I have gone to turning off the LC before I connect or disconnect *anything.*


----------



## Stillhart

mr rick said:


> An odd occurrence, but it happened to me as well. I have gone to turning off the LC before I connect or disconnect *anything.*


 
  
 Should be fine if you just turn the volume all the way down, as recommended in the manual.  Have you tried that?


----------



## Mr Rick

stillhart said:


> Should be fine if you just turn the volume all the way down, as recommended in the manual.  Have you tried that?


 
 I'm 'gun shy". I'll continue to do it my way.


----------



## zachawry

3rddimension said:


> The eagle has landed in Greece! I left it warm up for half an hour and connected it to my ifi micro idsd. I unpacked my brand new Forza Noir Hybrid 4pin XLR and connected my Alpha Primes to the Carbon. Fired up Opeth - Pale Communion in Hirez and i am floored by the sound quality! If the carbon sounds like this right out of the box, i can only imagine how it will sound after the burn in. I will follow up with a full impression after the burn in, but i am so amazed i had to post something


 

 I looove the Cavalli with my Primes. I feel like they add more to the Primes than they do to the Ethers, which I guess makes sense since the Primes are harder to drive than the Ethers. With the Ethers, I would call the Carbon a slight improvement over the Hugo alone. With the Primes....A huuge step up.


----------



## Cardiiiii

So I've had the LC for about a week now and have clocked in about 15-20 hours on it. When I first plugged it in I wasn't very impressed mostly because I didn't know what to expect and I don't have any standards to compare to, I'm relatively new to all this. But over the last week, listening to my favourite albums, mostly hip hop, man, wow! I'm hearing them like I haven't before. It's like looking at things from a different perspective!
  
 The Hugo is insane at retrieving details, you hear things on recordings you haven't heard before, especially on hifi Tidal tracks. Adding the LC took away some of the outright clarity of the Hugo, lets say it's dropped to about 90%. But the LC brings it's own party tricks to the table. The bass is expanded but tighter at the same time, it doesn't overlap or overshadow the treble. There's a warmth and musicality that is brought to the tracks, its very engaging, you just don't want to put the headphones away. If the Hugo was like putting on polarising sunglasses while driving to cut out all the glare, the LC is like looking at a photo with a magnifying glass without losing much quality, like the difference between optical and digital zoom. I'm hoping the clarity will climb back up to about 95% with burn in, and I'm sure it will, it gets better with every listen. Right now I'm just appreciating the production on Kanye's 808's and Heartbreaks, this album has never sounded so good!
  
 For the last 25 who are waiting, trust me, it will be worth the wait.
  
 Sorry for the non technical review, I'm not very good with fancy words. Thank you Alex for this little bundle of joy, it was definitely worth the wait!


----------



## bazelio

cardiiiii said:


> Sorry for the non technical review, I'm not very good with fancy words. Thank you Alex for this little bundle of joy, it was definitely worth the wait!


 
  
  
 Sometimes less is more.


----------



## warrenpchi

cardiiiii said:


> The Hugo is insane at retrieving details, you hear things on recordings you haven't heard before, especially on hifi Tidal tracks.


 
  
 Cardiiiii, since you have a Mac, you might want to look into Amarra for TIDAL.  For me, it added a whole new level of realism.  I believe @Hansotek's experience with it was similar to mine as well.


----------



## novaca

Hi, is your unit completely silent? I noticed slight hum after turning on (tested on SE out; DAC disconnected, 230V / 50Hz). Hum is independent of volume, but it is louder when switching 3x gain - I am afraid to became louder on balanced out (yet I can not try it). On the same place another amplifier (V200) is absolutely silent. Anyone have a similar experience or solution/explanation? Thanks.


----------



## bazelio

Is there any real benefit to Amarra if you're not using the EQ?


----------



## Cardiiiii

novaca said:


> Hi, is your unit completely silent? I noticed slight hum after turning on (tested on SE out; DAC disconnected, 230V / 50Hz). Hum is independent of volume, but it is louder when switching 3x gain - I am afraid to became louder on balanced out (yet I can not try it). On the same place another amplifier (V200) is absolutely silent. Anyone have a similar experience or solution/explanation? Thanks.




Mines dead silent on both SE and balanced on both 1X and 3X gain.


----------



## Cardiiiii

warrenpchi said:


> Cardiiiii, since you have a Mac, you might want to look into Amarra for TIDAL.  For me, it added a whole new level of realism.  I believe @Hansotek
> 's experience with it was similar to mine as well.




I've got both Amarra for Tidal as well as Tidal plus SQ+. I usually use the latter because the UI is much better on the native Tidal app. Picked them both up at 50% off during the Black Friday sales.

Also, what volume level do you use on Amarra?


----------



## 3rddimension

zachawry said:


> I looove the Cavalli with my Primes. I feel like they add more to the Primes than they do to the Ethers, which I guess makes sense since the Primes are harder to drive than the Ethers. With the Ethers, I would call the Carbon a slight improvement over the Hugo alone. With the Primes....A huuge step up.


 

 I completely agree with you. I don't own the Ethers and only have used the micro idsd to feed my Primes. The Carbon is a huuuuuuuge step up from the idsd's amp while having a great synergy with it's DAC.


----------



## Hansotek

bazelio said:


> Is there any real benefit to Amarra if you're not using the EQ?



Yes. It sounds noticeably better. Better clarity. Better transparency. Deeper, more well-defined soundstage. It's very clean sounding in comparison.

And FWIW, I'm usually a purist when it comes to EQ, but I've really come around to it since I got Amarra for Tidal. The implementation is just outstanding.

The UI kinda stinks, but it's definitely worth it for the sonic improvements.


----------



## Hansotek

cardiiiii said:


> I've got both Amarra for Tidal as well as Tidal plus SQ+. I usually use the latter because the UI is much better on the native Tidal app. Picked them both up at 50% off during the Black Friday sales.
> 
> Also, what volume level do you use on Amarra?


 
  
 I use -4db on Amarra. It will peak into a pinkish orange, but won't quite hit red. I think they give you a little more headroom than the colors indicate. Anyway, I feel like this level gives you the full range of dynamic expression while staying safely free from any clipping. FWIW though, I have a slow rise EQ set to rise from +0db at 100hz to about +2.5db at 30hz (to compensate for the subbass roll-off on the HD800) - so that's part of the reason for the cut. With no boosts at all, I'd probably do -1db or -2db. I generally go just a notch short of full volume on any player.


----------



## bazelio

hansotek said:


> Yes. It sounds noticeably better. Better clarity. Better transparency. Deeper, more well-defined soundstage. It's very clean sounding in comparison.
> 
> And FWIW, I'm usually a purist when it comes to EQ, but I've really come around to it since I got Amarra for Tidal. The implementation is just outstanding.
> 
> The UI kinda stinks, but it's definitely worth it for the sonic improvements.


 
  
  
 Do we have any technical explanation as to why it sounds better?  Is it creating an attractive distortion, or is it actually somehow cleaning up the signal.


----------



## Stillhart

bazelio said:


> Do we have any technical explanation as to why it sounds better?  Is it creating an attractive distortion, or is it actually somehow cleaning up the signal.


 
  
 That's the million dollar question.  I'm assuming it's just DSP, but I'm a cynic.


----------



## bazelio

stillhart said:


> That's the million dollar question.  I'm assuming it's just DSP, but I'm a cynic.


 
  
  
 I would think so.  And whether that's "better" is really in the eye or ears of the beholder.  To some it might sound "artificial".


----------



## Stillhart

bazelio said:


> I would think so.  And whether that's "better" is really in the eye or ears of the beholder.  To some it might sound "artificial".


 
  
 Well at the end ofo the day, two people whose ears I trust completely (Warren and Dave) both rave about it.  So I'm going to trust that it sounds good.  Unfortunately, the Windows version is still in beta and doesn't work on my PC so I can't confirm one way or the other. 
  
 I think Warren was going to try to convert me to a believer when he's in town this week for CES...


----------



## bazelio

stillhart said:


> Well at the end ofo the day, two people whose ears I trust completely (Warren and Dave) both rave about it.  So I'm going to trust that it sounds good.  Unfortunately, the Windows version is still in beta and doesn't work on my PC so I can't confirm one way or the other.
> 
> I think Warren was going to try to convert me to a believer when he's in town this week for CES...


 
  
 Wind-what?  
  
 OK for $39.99 I'll give it a try and report back.  Maybe later tonight.  Hopefully one license allows me to use it on more than one machine.


----------



## Hansotek

bazelio said:


> Do we have any technical explanation as to why it sounds better?  Is it creating an attractive distortion, or is it actually somehow cleaning up the signal.


 
  
 It's an in-line DSP engine which bypasses your Mac's core audio. It's not exactly a new thing. Many or most professional production software suites will do the same. It's not "cleaning up" the signal, as you say... rather, it's having less negative effect than the core-audio DSP in your Mac. It's also not that the core-audio in your Mac is bad, Amarra's in-line processor is just a little better. 
  
 Improving your audio chain through things like high-res files, DSPs, external DACs, cabling, power management, etc. is really less of a matter of addition than _addition_ _by lack of subtraction._ Think of yourself starting at 100% - with the best, most pure and pristine signal possible. Loss is inevitable throughout the chain, but if you can make little 1% improvements here and there you might end up with 98% of the of the original signal instead of 93%. Improve current availability a little bit over here... reduce over-sampling errors a little bit over there... add a few of those things together and it starts to make a pretty noticeable difference.
  
 Whether or not that investment is worth it... well, that's up to you. Fortunately, you don't have to take my word for it, because they offer a free 15-day trial of Amarra for Tidal. You can decide for yourself whether or not it makes a difference. It took me all of 10 minutes before I went back and bought the full version. http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarrastreamproducts


----------



## Hansotek

bazelio said:


> Wind-what?
> 
> OK for $39.99 I'll give it a try and report back.  Maybe later tonight.  Hopefully one license allows me to use it on more than one machine.


 
  
 You get two machines with one license. I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it!


----------



## Jozurr

vince741 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I got my LC today and something weird happened.
> I listen to the amp for about two hours and got a buzzing/cracking noise on the right channel while using my HD800 in balanced. The noise is present even with the volume at 0.
> ...


 
  
 Having the same problem with the LC. Was working fine when it arrived. Thought I'd burn it in and have left the amp on since 48 hours. I can hear the clicking/buzzing/distortion on my left channel after the volume touches 11/12 o clock. Have changed the dac from DAC-19 to Chord Hugo, changed the RCA, changed headphone cables, changed headphones and went from SE to Balanced and have the same issue on the left channel with everything so I've concluded it's the amp. Turned it off and on again a few times (even during the course of making these changes) but the same problem. Going to give it a rest for a few hours and report back.
  
 Edit: Tried with different combinations on the Gustard H10, and everything works great. So it's the LC. Let's see if letting it cool down does anything.


----------



## vince741

For me, the noise went away after a few hours unplugged.
 Then in the last three-four days the issue came back once.
 I'm waiting for a new power chord to see if this might be the issue (although I doubt it will be as I use my Taurus cable) but alex already offered me the option of returning it to him to see what the issue might be.
  
 By pure curiosity @Jozurr, where do you live?


----------



## Hansotek

Honestly, I can't wait to get home from work and listen to my LC.


----------



## Jozurr

vince741 said:


> For me, the noise went away after a few hours unplugged.
> Then in the last three-four days the issue came back once.
> I'm waiting for a new power chord to see if this might be the issue (although I doubt it will be as I use my Taurus cable) but alex already offered me the option of returning it to him to see what the issue might be.
> 
> By pure curiosity @Jozurr, where do you live?


 
  
 I don't think it's the power cord for me either as I used the same one with the Gustard H10 just to have everything else in common except the amplifier.
  
 I live in Dubai and had the LC forwarded to me from the US, so it's going to be a long and expensive process if I have to send this back and considering I've already spent good money on the shipping forwarding, I'm not liking this situation at all. Let's see how it works after a few hours.


----------



## vince741

Seems like we both share the same voltage/frequency between the UAE and France.
 Is there any other 230V users in this thread?
  
 e/ Alex said to me that he will cover the shipping post, he'll probably do the same for you.


----------



## BIG666

I am Hungarian, and I also 230V power. I do not have any noise.


----------



## Shini44

i hope i don't get the same problems with the channel buzzing...  
  
  
 does this sound goes after 150-200 hours of burn in??


----------



## Cardiiiii

Also with Amarra the EQ for specific headphones makes a really audible difference.


----------



## Youth

Got mine today. Impressions comming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit/ LC and DAC-19 is putting a smile on my face.


----------



## Glow Fish

youth said:


> Got mine today. Impressions comming
> 
> Edit/ LC and DAC-19 is putting a smile on my face.




I have the LC with a new DAC-19. Phenomenal combo. Gets better each day.


----------



## Stillhart

youth said:


> Got mine today. Impressions comming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


glow fish said:


> I have the LC with a new DAC-19. Phenomenal combo. Gets better each day.


 
  
 Warms my heart to see so many satisfied DAC-19 + LC users.


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> Warms my heart to see so many satisfied DAC-19 + LC users.




Between your comments on the DAC-19 LC combo, and Amos's comments on the Liquid Carbon how could you expect less? 


[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RugsJNy_nig[/VIDEO]


----------



## Jozurr

x relic x said:


> Between your comments on the DAC-19 and Amos's comments on the Liquid Carbon how could you expect less?




I was really liking that combo too until my LC started acting up. Hoping for things to get back to normal.


----------



## aamefford

@Stillhart, I am less pleased with the Dac-19/LC combo, but only because it sounds so good I bought a Liquid Crimson. I'm just settling and listening to the Crimson. The carbon is quite similar, but the Liquid Crimson is something special. Anyway my only complaint with the Dac-19 and LC is that it can cost one additional money…


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> @Stillhart, I am less pleased with the Dac-19/LC combo, but only because it sounds so good I bought a Liquid Crimson. I'm just settling and listening to the Crimson. The carbon is quite similar, but the Liquid Crimson is something special. Anyway my only complaint with the Dac-19 and LC is that it can cost one additional money…


 
  
 LOL!  Glad you're enjoying the Crimson!  I agree that the Carbon is surprisingly similar but the Crimson is just... more.  A wonderful little amp that has forced me to spend more on headphones too (HD800 incoming!).  Damn you, LC!


----------



## zachawry

hansotek said:


> It's an in-line DSP engine which bypasses your Mac's core audio. It's not exactly a new thing. Many or most professional production software suites will do the same. It's not "cleaning up" the signal, as you say... rather, it's having less negative effect than the core-audio DSP in your Mac. It's also not that the core-audio in your Mac is bad, Amarra's in-line processor is just a little better.
> 
> Improving your audio chain through things like high-res files, DSPs, external DACs, cabling, power management, etc. is really less of a matter of addition than _addition_ _by lack of subtraction._ Think of yourself starting at 100% - with the best, most pure and pristine signal possible. Loss is inevitable throughout the chain, but if you can make little 1% improvements here and there you might end up with 98% of the of the original signal instead of 93%. Improve current availability a little bit over here... reduce over-sampling errors a little bit over there... add a few of those things together and it starts to make a pretty noticeable difference.
> 
> Whether or not that investment is worth it... well, that's up to you. Fortunately, you don't have to take my word for it, because they offer a free 15-day trial of Amarra for Tidal. You can decide for yourself whether or not it makes a difference. It took me all of 10 minutes before I went back and bought the full version. http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarrastreamproducts


 

 Thanks for the explanation. I'm just beginning to delve into these products, and recently bought Audirvana. Was surprised at how much better it sounded than iTunes. 
  
 Does Audirvana do basically the same thing, do you know (ie are they equivalent products)? 
  
 Too bad they don't offer Tidal in Japan...


----------



## woodcans

Just started burning in my LC. So far it makes my Z5's sound my like my Z7's and my Z7's like a concert. Wow!!
  
 And both channels are perfectly silent, even with the volume turned up to 85%. Love this amp.


----------



## zachawry

I really love mine, too. 
  
 Given the huuuge birthing pains Alex has gone through, it seems a waste to limit this to the current run. It really is something special, and it seems like he oughta increase the price by a couple hundred bucks and make it a steady product. That way all of the trouble so far will have gone towards something more than just us 500.


----------



## Hansotek

zachawry said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > It's an in-line DSP engine which bypasses your Mac's core audio. It's not exactly a new thing. Many or most professional production software suites will do the same. It's not "cleaning up" the signal, as you say... rather, it's having less negative effect than the core-audio DSP in your Mac. It's also not that the core-audio in your Mac is bad, Amarra's in-line processor is just a little better.
> ...


 
  
 Yes. Audirvana also bypasses the Mac's core-audio.


----------



## XenHeadFi

I just got my Carbon back from Dr. Cavalli today, 1 day ahead of expectations!
  
 After fully completing burn-in (listening while burning) my Carbon had the following issues: 1) Gumby leaking through the right channel at zero volume (always had, but accepted as within spec), 2) suddenly bad leak-through with an increase in channel imbalance, 3) sudden appearance of noise (hiss) in the right channel that decreased as volume pot was increased. This weird noise was only heard with Balanced Inputs at 3x gain. SE vs. Balanced inputs had identical levels to my ears (just an observation, not sure if it meant anything). The only thing I had fiddled with was the volume pot.
  
 Dr. Cavalli diagnosed the problem as a bad volume pot and replaced the board. Newly repaired Carbon at 0 hours of burn-in has no audible leak through at zero volume (<1.5 mV). Channel imbalance has been reduced to <0.5 dB at volumes higher than 8 oclock. No weird noise at all on any input, at any gain, at any level. A small amount of hiss with RCA SE inputs at 3x gain at max volume, which is to be expected from what I have on my desk. Balanced inputs at 3x gain is silent at max volume. 1x gain for both inputs is also silent at max volume. SE input now has slightly lower levels than Balanced input (again, not sure if this means anything.)
  
 I am very happy with the service that Dr. Cavalli gave me. He answered the support email personally and after receiving my Carbon, gave me multiple updates as he progressed with his investigation of my Carbon. Very happy to have my amp back and in better shape after repairs.
  
 Time to clock in more burn-in time...


----------



## mscott58

xenheadfi said:


> I just got my Carbon back from Dr. Cavalli today, 1 day ahead of expectations!
> 
> After fully completing burn-in (listening while burning) my Carbon had the following issues: 1) Gumby leaking through the right channel at zero volume (always had, but accepted as within spec), 2) suddenly bad leak-through with an increase in channel imbalance, 3) sudden appearance of noise (hiss) in the right channel that decreased as volume pot was increased. This weird noise was only heard with Balanced Inputs at 3x gain. SE vs. Balanced inputs had identical levels to my ears (just an observation, not sure if it meant anything). The only thing I had fiddled with was the volume pot.
> 
> ...


 
 Glad to hear it's worked out. Alex is a very good guy, and takes all of this very seriously, as you have personally experienced. Cheers


----------



## woodcans

xenheadfi said:


> I just got my Carbon back from Dr. Cavalli today, 1 day ahead of expectations!
> 
> After fully completing burn-in (listening while burning) my Carbon had the following issues: 1) Gumby leaking through the right channel at zero volume (always had, but accepted as within spec), 2) suddenly bad leak-through with an increase in channel imbalance, 3) sudden appearance of noise (hiss) in the right channel that decreased as volume pot was increased. This weird noise was only heard with Balanced Inputs at 3x gain. SE vs. Balanced inputs had identical levels to my ears (just an observation, not sure if it meant anything). The only thing I had fiddled with was the volume pot.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I spoke with Alex on the phone when I was frustrated about the shipping 'debacle'. He was nothing but a gentleman and a businessman. He encouraged me to call as often and as frequently as I wanted to quell my fears/annoyances. He even expressed his own frustration. I never called back. I am now (especially after listening to my LC), a Cavalli fanboy. Best $599 I have spent on head-fi in _years_. By far. Cheers!


----------



## zachawry

Since the LC is like a gateway drug, I'm now kinda vaguely looking at the Crimson and the Gold. The Gold is "only" $1K more than the Crimson, but a lot of people here seem to have the Crimson. Is this because it's a hybrid? If I were to, in my dreams, totally splurge for one or the other, what would the differences in sound be? Anybody have experience with both?


----------



## f0oster

zachawry said:


> Since the LC is like a gateway drug, I'm now kinda vaguely looking at the Crimson and the Gold. The Gold is "only" $1K more than the Crimson, but a lot of people here seem to have the Crimson. Is this because it's a hybrid? If I were to, in my dreams, totally splurge for one or the other, what would the differences in sound be? Anybody have experience with both?


 
 Maybe try and head down to one of the head-fi meets when Alex is there and sample them? I'm sure he'll bring them along. Big investment to be making blind, imo.


----------



## zachawry

f0oster said:


> Maybe try and head down to one of the head-fi meets when Alex is there and sample them? I'm sure he'll bring them along. Big investment to be making blind, imo.


 

 Yeah, totally agree. And at this point I'm really just fantasizing. I want to ascertain which amp I should be fantasizing about, though!
  
 And, I'm in Japan, so getting to a Meet is kinda hard....


----------



## jarnopp

vince741 said:


> For me, the noise went away after a few hours unplugged.
> Then in the last three-four days the issue came back once.
> I'm waiting for a new power chord to see if this might be the issue (although I doubt it will be as I use my Taurus cable) but alex already offered me the option of returning it to him to see what the issue might be.
> 
> ...




I just got my amp back from Alex for this problem. He swapped the board and it sounds great, but I guess I'm cautiously optimistic, since my channel imbalance/distortions problem started about 75 hours into burn-in. The cooling back to normal would also explain why it seemed to measure normally to him. So, will report back if anything amiss happens. If not, impressions will follow...


----------



## Stillhart

zachawry said:


> Since the LC is like a gateway drug, I'm now kinda vaguely looking at the Crimson and the Gold. The Gold is "only" $1K more than the Crimson, but a lot of people here seem to have the Crimson. Is this because it's a hybrid? If I were to, in my dreams, totally splurge for one or the other, what would the differences in sound be? Anybody have experience with both?


 
  
 There was recently a promotional sale on the Liquid Crimson for $1800, which is a steal for this amp.  That's why you see a lot of new Crimson owners lately.  I believe they all sold out during that sale, so until he does another run, your only chance to get one is to find it used.  The last time I saw one used (a week ago) they were selling it to upgrade to a Liquid Gold.  lol
  
 I haven't spent enough time with the Gold to really give you a run down of the differences.  Frankly, I stayed away on purpose because I know how much it costs and I don't want to fall in love with it.  But it's a true endgame solid state amp.  It'll drive anything but an electrostat, inluding things like the HE-6 and the Abyss, with power to spare. 
  
 I'm sure some others like @Hansotek or @warrenpchi can give you a much better idea of the differences.


----------



## Hansotek

zachawry said:


> Since the LC is like a gateway drug, I'm now kinda vaguely looking at the Crimson and the Gold. The Gold is "only" $1K more than the Crimson, but a lot of people here seem to have the Crimson. Is this because it's a hybrid? If I were to, in my dreams, totally splurge for one or the other, what would the differences in sound be? Anybody have experience with both?




I've heard both. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either. Comparing sound isn't easy without both here to A/B, but I can tell you with the Gold, you get a lot more power (9W as opposed to 6W into 50 ohms), fully balanced inputs and outputs (which, depending on your DAC's topology, could be a huge advantage), and solid state operation vs. tube hybrid operation. If you run the HE-6 or the Abyss and it is within budget, the Gold is the way to go. With other HPs, it is almost subjective because they are both SO good. This is a case where you really can't go wrong.

*edit: corrected Crimson output power from 5W to 6W at 50 ohms


----------



## bazelio

hansotek said:


> You get two machines with one license. I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it!


 
  
 OK, I've installed Amarra for Tidal.  With my Zana Deux S, Mystique V2 DAC, and HD600 rig... yes, I have got to admit I'm hearing a noticeable improvement.  I'm only about 20 minutes in right now and I've just been doing some analytical listening to very specific sections of only two tracks going back and forth between the Tidal app and Amarra.  What I hear thus far with Amarra is improvement in clarity and focus, a slightly more dynamic and fuller sound end to end, and definitely an improvement in timbral accuracy.   I'm pleased.
  
 BTW the EQ presets are a mess....  I've got the EQ disabled.  But the sound distorts, particularly the bass, on many of their presets.  I'm not quite sure what to do, if anything, with the gain setting.  I've got it at 0.


----------



## Hansotek

bazelio said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > You get two machines with one license. I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it!
> ...



On the distortion you mentioned - Easy fix. Turn down the preamp gain slider on the the upper left side to be a decibel or two below the level of the the highest frequency boost on the EQ setting - for example if the largest boost is +6db at 100hz set the preamp slider to -7 or -8db to avoid clipping.

I don't use their presets, but the parametric EQ is pretty killer, compared to most players. I usually keep the gain fixed at -4db for convenience purposes.

I'm glad you like it! I use Tidal a lot and I've found it to be a nice upgrade.


----------



## adobotj

Serial 319 has landed! So far no hum or channel imbalances from initial listening. Will have to call in sick today to listen and enjoy this long waited amp for the entire day! All headphones ready, balanced cables ready, dacs ready, music ready! Will be testing everything and any combinations with it. Burn baby burn!!!


----------



## zachawry

hansotek said:


> I've heard both. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either. Comparing sound isn't easy without both here to A/B, but I can tell you with the Gold, you get a lot more power (9W as opposed to 5W into 50 ohms, if memory serves), fully balanced inputs and outputs (which, depending on your DAC's topology, could be a huge advantage), and solid state operation vs. tube hybrid operation. If you run the HE-6 or the Abyss and it is within budget, the Gold is the way to go. With other HPs, it is almost subjective because they are both SO good. This is a case where you really can't go wrong.


 
  
 Thanks for your opinion. I'm curious about one thing:
  
 If I'm not driving something like the HE-6 or Abyss (Alpha Primes and Ethers, might go for Ether C eventually), is the extra power wasted? Or does it still contribute to better sound even with easier to drive headphones?


----------



## zachawry

stillhart said:


> There was recently a promotional sale on the Liquid Crimson for $1800, which is a steal for this amp.  That's why you see a lot of new Crimson owners lately.  I believe they all sold out during that sale, so until he does another run, your only chance to get one is to find it used.  The last time I saw one used (a week ago) they were selling it to upgrade to a Liquid Gold.


 
  
 There are still Crimsons for sale at Mrspeaker:
  
 https://mrspeakers.com/shop/2-electronics/cavalli-audio-liquid-crimson-amplifier/


----------



## novaca

vince741 said:


> Seems like we both share the same voltage/frequency between the UAE and France.
> Is there any other 230V users in this thread?
> 
> e/ Alex said to me that he will cover the shipping post, he'll probably do the same for you.


 
  
 Yes, the Czech Republic 230V/50Hz.
 See my post # 1053


----------



## Music Path

youth said:


> Got mine today. Impressions comming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well i guess it´s case to say:

 God fornøjelse!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers


----------



## jarnopp

adobotj said:


> Serial 319 has landed! So far no hum or channel imbalances from initial listening. Will have to call in sick today to listen and enjoy this long waited amp for the entire day! All headphones ready, balanced cables ready, dacs ready, music ready! Will be testing everything and any combinations with it. Burn baby burn!!!




Nice! With gear like that I might call in sick every day. Interested to hear your impressions of what the LC adds to the Mojo on various 'phones.


----------



## m usicguy

Can any one post the pin out for the 4 pin xlr?  I found many on line just want to make sure Cavalli is using the same.  Im getting ready to build my balanced cable..
  
  
 musicguy


----------



## Mr Rick

m usicguy said:


> Can any one post the pin out for the 4 pin xlr?  I found many on line just want to make sure Cavalli is using the same.  Im getting ready to build my balanced cable..
> 
> 
> musicguy


 
 I built mine using this.


----------



## Stillhart

m usicguy said:


> Can any one post the pin out for the 4 pin xlr?  I found many on line just want to make sure Cavalli is using the same.  Im getting ready to build my balanced cable..
> 
> 
> musicguy


 
 Here you go:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/diy-cable-info-and-resources
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/676402/diy-cable-questions-and-comments-thread


----------



## adobotj

jarnopp said:


> Nice! With gear like that I might call in sick every day. Interested to hear your impressions of what the LC adds to the Mojo on various 'phones.




Thanks! Will reserve my impressions after the recommended burn in period. So far, everything is working perfectly. I'm enjoying the LC+mojo with th HD800. This combo (so far) is my favorite among my headphones. 

Quick question though, I know I'm being too lazy and this has already been asked before but, can I plug both se connections? I mean the RCA's and 3.5? 

My plan is to plug in various dacs for comparison. My mojo obviously outs 3.5 and some of my dacs out RCA. I'm afraid I might damage the amp by plugging both se inputs. I won't play music from both sources at the same time but plan to play it alternately. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Stillhart

adobotj said:


> Thanks! Will reserve my impressions after the recommended burn in period. So far, everything is working perfectly. I'm enjoying the LC+mojo with th HD800. This combo (so far) is my favorite among my headphones.
> 
> Quick question though, I know I'm being too lazy and this has already been asked before but, can I plug both se connections? I mean the RCA's and 3.5?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The SE inputs are connected to each other so playing at the same time is a definite no-go.  I can't tell you if even having them connected will be an issue, that's probably a good question for @runeight .


----------



## Hansotek

zachawry said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard both. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either. Comparing sound isn't easy without both here to A/B, but I can tell you with the Gold, you get a lot more power (9W as opposed to 6W into 50 ohms), fully balanced inputs and outputs (which, depending on your DAC's topology, could be a huge advantage), and solid state operation vs. tube hybrid operation. If you run the HE-6 or the Abyss and it is within budget, the Gold is the way to go. With other HPs, it is almost subjective because they are both SO good. This is a case where you really can't go wrong.
> ...


 
  
 I've really only heard the Liquid Gold with the HE-6 and the Abyss, so I can't really tell you about how it sounds with the Ether or Alpha Prime. If you don't need that extra power, I think it becomes more of a matter of which amp (a) sounds better to you, (b) which amp will serve your current and future needs better, and (c) what fits within your budget.


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> I've really only heard the Liquid Gold with the HE-6 and the Abyss, so I can't really tell you about how it sounds with the Ether or Alpha Prime. If you don't need that extra power, I think it becomes more of a matter of which amp (a) sounds better to you, (b) which amp will serve your current and future needs better, and (c) what fits within your budget.


 
  
 And also keep in mind that there's more to a good sounding amp than just how much power it outputs.  Circuit design, parts used, etc etc.  The LAu is a good sounding amp either way, but as Hansotek said, if you don't NEED the power, then you might be able to save a few bucks if you find that the Liquid Crimson or Liquid Glass float your boat better.  Or you might find that it's the best sounding of the three to your ears and worth it even if you don't need all that power.


----------



## adobotj

stillhart said:


> The SE inputs are connected to each other so playing at the same time is a definite no-go.  I can't tell you if even having them connected will be an issue, that's probably a good question for @runeight
> .




Thanks for a very quick response, Dan! Definitely wouldn't play it at the same time. Got my mixer for that  

I'm planning to compare the Mojo with other dacs including the theta, running through LC.


----------



## callizer

My PC > Hugo > Liquid Carbon (RCA input, balanced output) > LCD-X setup has very noticable distortion. What might be thr problem?

Power cable? Dirty AC power? RCA? Wrong volume setting?

I'm using line volume out on Hugo (press and hold xfeed button), then controlling the volume on Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Jozurr

jozurr said:


> Having the same problem with the LC. Was working fine when it arrived. Thought I'd burn it in and have left the amp on since 48 hours. I can hear the clicking/buzzing/distortion on my left channel after the volume touches 11/12 o clock. Have changed the dac from DAC-19 to Chord Hugo, changed the RCA, changed headphone cables, changed headphones and went from SE to Balanced and have the same issue on the left channel with everything so I've concluded it's the amp. Turned it off and on again a few times (even during the course of making these changes) but the same problem. Going to give it a rest for a few hours and report back.
> 
> Edit: Tried with different combinations on the Gustard H10, and everything works great. So it's the LC. Let's see if letting it cool down does anything.


 
  
 I let the LC cool down and heard it again and the same problem. Changed power cords as well as rcas etc just to eliminate everything else and I still hear cracking after 11/12 o clock on the volume pot. It's only in the left ear and it sounds like a blown up speaker like sound. It's disappointing. I will contact Alex and see what he has to say about it.


----------



## Cardiiiii

callizer said:


> My PC > Hugo > Liquid Carbon (RCA input, balanced output) > LCD-X setup has very noticable distortion. What might be thr problem?
> 
> Power cable? Dirty AC power? RCA? Wrong volume setting?
> 
> I'm using line volume out on Hugo (press and hold xfeed button), then controlling the volume on Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 What do you mean by distortion?


----------



## Mattyhew

Since there has been a lot of talk about Audio-gd's other products like the Master 11 and the Dac-19,
  
 Has anyone heard their NFB-1.32/1DAC? Especially with the Liquid Carbon. Seems interesting as its at a similar price point as the DAC-19.


----------



## Stillhart

mattyhew said:


> Since there has been a lot of talk about Audio-gd's other products like the Master 11 and the Dac-19,
> 
> Has anyone heard their NFB-1.32/1DAC? Especially with the Liquid Carbon. Seems interesting as its at a similar price point as the DAC-19.


 
  
 I had an NFB-28, which is basically an NFB-1AMP and NFB-1DAC in a single unit.  It's one of the nicer Sabre implementations I've ever heard, but it's still extremely bright and digital sounding compared to the DAC-19.  I don't believe I ever tried the DAC section with the LC because I simply stopped using the Sabre in the NFB-28 when I got my Theta and DAC-19 R2R DACs.  
  
 BUT, if you like the Sabre sound and can't afford a nice R2R DAC, the Audio-GD implementation is one of the better ones I've heard.


----------



## Jozurr

Anyone has Alex's e-mail address? I can't seem to find it on their website.


----------



## Mattyhew

stillhart said:


> I had an NFB-28, which is basically an NFB-1AMP and NFB-1DAC in a single unit.  It's one of the nicer Sabre implementations I've ever heard, but it's still extremely bright and digital sounding compared to the DAC-19.  I don't believe I ever tried the DAC section with the LC because I simply stopped using the Sabre in the NFB-28 when I got my Theta and DAC-19 R2R DACs.
> 
> BUT, if you like the Sabre sound and can't afford a nice R2R DAC, the Audio-GD implementation is one of the better ones I've heard.


 
  
 Thanks, the LC and my current DAC dont play nice together but I love the LC so much I cant really justify getting rid of it, so now I'm back to shopping for DACs which i wasnt expecting


----------



## callizer

Quote:


cardiiiii said:


> What do you mean by distortion?



  
 This is the sound when the volume is at 10 o'clock (normal):
  
 https://soundcloud.com/kevin-setiadi-990622185/10-oclock
  
 This is the sound when the volume is at 11 o'clock (distorted):
  
 https://soundcloud.com/kevin-setiadi-990622185/11-oclock


----------



## Shini44

jozurr said:


> I let the LC cool down and heard it again and the same problem. Changed power cords as well as rcas etc just to eliminate everything else and I still hear cracking after 11/12 o clock on the volume pot. It's only in the left ear and it sounds like a blown up speaker like sound. It's disappointing. I will contact Alex and see what he has to say about it.


 
 First the shipping issues, and now you have to deal with this..... and you live far away in Dubai....


----------



## Cardiiiii

Maybe the continuous burn in isn't a good idea?


----------



## Shini44

cardiiiii said:


> Maybe the continuous burn in isn't a good idea?


 
@Jozurr had his unit on burn in for 48 hours, plus the manual required 150 hours....


----------



## Cardiiiii

shini44 said:


> @Jozurr had his unit on burn in for 48 hours, plus the manual required 150 hours....


 
 Does burn in have to be continuous? Can't it just be over time? That's how I'm burning in mine. It's plugged in and switched on all the time, but I listen to music when I'm home. Had it for about a week now, should have clocked in about 25 hours on it. I'm enjoying the evolution.


----------



## Shini44

cardiiiii said:


> Does burn in have to be continuous? Can't it just be over time? That's how I'm burning in mine. It's plugged in and switched on all the time, but I listen to music when I'm home. Had it for about a week now, should have clocked in about 25 hours on it. I'm enjoying the evolution.


 
 tbh after all of these posts about the nightmare of the hum/buzz issue, i am not planing to burn it in at all!!!
  
 i will plug and enjoy the amp all the way, and screw the burn in.
  
 not gonna risk it what so ever.


----------



## novaca

shini44 said:


> tbh after all of these posts about the nightmare of the hum/buzz issue, i am not planing to burn it in at all!!!
> 
> i will plug and enjoy the amp all the way, and screw the burn in.
> 
> not gonna risk it what so ever.


 
  
 Mine hum/buzz immediately out of the box...


----------



## Shini44

novaca said:


> Mine hum/buzz immediately out of the box...


 
 one of the last 25 amps?


----------



## jarnopp

I and a couple other folks have had this issue (channel imbalance and distortion). Mine started after about 75 hours of burn in. So, if for nothing else but testing, I recommend the burn in period!

I emailed Cavalli support and Alex responded promptly and had me ship the amp back. He replaced the board and shipped it back (all between Christmas and New Years, so great service). I am burning it in now, and so far (36 hours in) still sounds great!

Support@CavalliAudio.com

Good luck!


----------



## bearFNF

If it's humming/buzzing from the balanced output, something is wrong. It should be dead quiet from balanced. 
SE output may have some transformer like hum. IME and YMMV

@callizer, you might check to see if the line-out of the hugo is too high??





callizer said:


> My PC > Hugo > Liquid Carbon (RCA input, balanced output) > LCD-X setup has very noticable distortion. What might be thr problem?
> 
> Power cable? Dirty AC power? RCA? Wrong volume setting?
> 
> I'm using line volume out on Hugo (press and hold xfeed button), then controlling the volume on Liquid Carbon.



This post might help: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702787/chord-hugo/7995#post_10847182


----------



## coastal1

shini44 said:


> tbh after all of these posts about the nightmare of the hum/buzz issue, i am not planing to burn it in at all!!!
> 
> i will plug and enjoy the amp all the way, and screw the burn in.
> 
> not gonna risk it what so ever.




150 hours of continuous burn in is strongly recommended by the manual. Seems unlikely this would increase the risk. I'd rather any issues pop up sooner rather than later.


----------



## yage

coastal1 said:


> I'd rather any issues pop up sooner rather than later.


 
  
 IMO, this is the real reason for 'burn-in'...


----------



## frankrondaniel

callizer said:


> My PC > Hugo > Liquid Carbon (RCA input, balanced output) > LCD-X setup has very noticable distortion. What might be thr problem?
> 
> Power cable? Dirty AC power? RCA? Wrong volume setting?
> 
> I'm using line volume out on Hugo (press and hold xfeed button), then controlling the volume on Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 Try turning the volume down on the Hugo.  What they call line out on the Hugo can be a little much for other devices.  I usually turn it down a color or two.


----------



## Shini44

coastal1 said:


> 150 hours of continuous burn in is strongly recommended by the manual. Seems unlikely this would increase the risk. I'd rather any issues pop up sooner rather than later.


 
  


yage said:


> IMO, this is the real reason for 'burn-in'...


 
  
 so you guys suggest that i burn it in for 150 continues hours before i even try it?  
  
 to avoid future problems that might occur within the amp?


----------



## callizer

I sent an email to Cavalli Audio explaining the problem. I'll just quote it here.
  


> Dear Dr Alex Cavalli,
> I'm writing this email as a follow up for my post on HeadFi (callizer). I'm going to write in detail about the problem, probably a bit too detailed. But believe me I have left out all the unnecessary parts.
> 
> *BACKSTORY*
> ...


----------



## yage

shini44 said:


> so you guys suggest that i burn it in for 150 continues hours before i even try it?
> 
> to avoid future problems that might occur within the amp?


 
  
 You don't have to burn it in without listening to it, but I bet that if the amp is going to develop any sort of problem it's most likely going to do so during the first 150 hrs of use.


----------



## Shini44

yage said:


> You don't have to burn it in without listening to it, but I bet that if the amp is going to develop any sort of problem it's most likely going to do so during the first 150 hrs of use.


 
 will burn it in for a day at least.


----------



## ambrose1985

i seem to have a slight channel imbalance issue, but i can't decipher if it's a the sound stage or a real channel imbalance... it seems that i hear alot of bass and mid range from the left side and vocals more from the right side...
  
 hmmm.


----------



## swspiers

ambrose1985 said:


> i seem to have a slight channel imbalance issue, but i can't decipher if it's a the sound stage or a real channel imbalance... it seems that i hear alot of bass and mid range from the left side and vocals more from the right side...
> 
> hmmm.




Across multiple songs/recordings?


----------



## yage

ambrose1985 said:


> i seem to have a slight channel imbalance issue, but i can't decipher if it's a the sound stage or a real channel imbalance... it seems that i hear alot of bass and mid range from the left side and vocals more from the right side...
> 
> hmmm.


 
  
 This might help - http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


----------



## defbear

I burned mine in for about 200 hours. So I lost track of days. It made the amp a little more open and a bit brighter. Perhaps a bit more low end. My amp made it through without issue. But I personally don't think it's needed. My amp sounded super right out of the box. Also Alex is having us burn them in to produce better sound. Not to weed out bad amps. Although getting them to fail early on is a side benefit. As far as Noise is concerned. When I have my single ended th900's plugged into the LC, I can hear some ambient hiss if I turn up the volume up past 2-3 o'clock. I'll try it balanced tonight and report back. But I have no channel imbalance nor distortions even at some stupid high volumes.


----------



## novaca

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, sn 00368
 And another curiosity: when the volume is at zero, I can still hear the music quietly (especially with gain 3x)


----------



## WNBC

I had this same issue (489) and it went away after burn-in. Now dead quiet even with my source at full strength. That may be some evidence of a burn-in effect? 



novaca said:


> No, sn 00368
> And another curiosity: when the volume is at zero, I can still hear the music quietly (especially with gain 3x)


----------



## aamefford

The faint music at zero volume is not an issue. I get it as well, and have on other amps. My headphones are pretty efficient and pick this up.


----------



## chefboyarlee

I apologize if this has been mentioned already. I just picked up a bimby and bflat said to never turn it off. The question is should I leave the LC on as well? I usually don't listen daily. Maybe every third day for 2-3 hours at a time. Or when I'm traveling not for a week or 2 at all.


----------



## Stillhart

chefboyarlee said:


> I apologize if this has been mentioned already. I just picked up a bimby and bflat said to never turn it off. The question is should I leave the LC on as well? I usually don't listen daily. Maybe every third day for 2-3 hours at a time. Or when I'm traveling not for a week or 2 at all.


 
  
 You can turn both of them off whenever you want.  The BMB is no Yggy and doesn't need anywhere near the warmup time.  The LC needs no warm up time.


----------



## ambrose1985

i seem to have a slight channel imbalance issue, but i can't decipher if it's a the sound stage or a real channel imbalance... 


yage said:


> This might help - http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_stereo.php


 

 Right side seems slightly louder, but really just slightly. 
  
 When "central channel" plays, it seems to even out.


----------



## bflat

ambrose1985 said:


> i seem to have a slight channel imbalance issue, but i can't decipher if it's a the sound stage or a real channel imbalance...
> 
> Right side seems slightly louder, but really just slightly.
> 
> When "central channel" plays, it seems to even out.


 

 It could also be possible that your prior system was slightly balanced on the left side. For minor imbalance, I've found the brain will adjust to bring back to center. I would test again after several days on your new system. This happens to me when switching back and forth on IEMs. I stick to one long enough and I can't hear the imbalance anymore. By slight, I mean under 3 dB difference. Imaging wise I would say sound is centered on left or right side of my nose instead of dead center. Very slight.


----------



## Jozurr

jarnopp said:


> I and a couple other folks have had this issue (channel imbalance and distortion). Mine started after about 75 hours of burn in. So, if for nothing else but testing, I recommend the burn in period!
> 
> I emailed Cavalli support and Alex responded promptly and had me ship the amp back. He replaced the board and shipped it back (all between Christmas and New Years, so great service). I am burning it in now, and so far (36 hours in) still sounds great!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've emailed cavalli as well. Let's see.
  


callizer said:


> I sent an email to Cavalli Audio explaining the problem. I'll just quote it here.


 
  
 I'm facing the exact same problem. Would be interested to know how it is resolved. Please keep us posted.


----------



## woodcans

15-20 hours on my Carbon. Totally silent background....


----------



## Shini44

woodcans said:


> 15-20 hours on my Carbon. Totally silent background....


 
 serial?


----------



## adobotj

ambrose1985 said:


> i seem to have a slight channel imbalance issue, but i can't decipher if it's a the sound stage or a real channel imbalance...
> 
> 
> Right side seems slightly louder, but really just slightly.
> ...




Try lowering down the volume until you reach zero. See if the sound disappears together or if one side goes out first than the other side. That would clearly indicate a channel imbalance. 

It's hard to decipher channel imbalance while listening to music on normal listening volume as there's a lot of factors that could deviate our listening "center" (imaging). Our ears aren't "volume matched" perfectly so there's some deviations here and there. 

Now, if the volume pot is in zero position and you can still hear something on one side and none on the other, then it's channel imbalance indeed. 

I hope that helps. Cheers!


----------



## adobotj

callizer said:


> I sent an email to Cavalli Audio explaining the problem. I'll just quote it here.




How about gain settings on the LC? Have you tried reproducing the problem (distortion) on different gain on the LC? If not, you can add that to your assessment. 

Try playing the same song on 1x gain and then on 3x gain (volume matched of course) and note the character of the distortion if it reduced or increased or gone altogether.


----------



## adobotj

woodcans said:


> 15-20 hours on my Carbon. Totally silent background....




48 hours on mine. Pitch black background...


----------



## callizer

adobotj said:


> How about gain settings on the LC? Have you tried reproducing the problem (distortion) on different gain on the LC? If not, you can add that to your assessment.
> 
> Try playing the same song on 1x gain and then on 3x gain (volume matched of course) and note the character of the distortion if it reduced or increased or gone altogether.


 
 It's still distorted, but less pronounced.

 Low gain can't drive LCD-X properly. The bass is much less pronounced and the impact was significantly worse compared to Hugo.

 Anyway, Dr Cavalli told me to ship back the amp with DHL. I'll keep you guys updated.


----------



## jarnopp

callizer said:


> It's still distorted, but less pronounced.
> 
> 
> Low gain can't drive LCD-X properly. The bass is much less pronounced and the impact was significantly worse compared to Hugo.
> ...




Good luck with your issue. Alex will make it right!

Just to reiterate, the 1x gain is no gain, just a pass through and attenuators for the source. It could not add power as I understand it.


----------



## adobotj

callizer said:


> It's still distorted, but less pronounced.
> 
> 
> Low gain can't drive LCD-X properly. The bass is much less pronounced and the impact was significantly worse compared to Hugo.
> ...




Sorry to hear that. I hope it gets back to you asap and in perfect working condition. Keep us on the loop.


----------



## x RELIC x

callizer said:


> It's still distorted, but less pronounced.
> 
> 
> Low gain can't drive LCD-X properly. The bass is much less pronounced and the impact was significantly worse compared to Hugo.
> ...




The LC drives my LCD-XC on low gain (1x) very well. I usually have the volume around 8:30 - 9:00 only when using the balanced output.

Gotta say, your comment has me perplexed.


----------



## jarnopp

x relic x said:


> The LC drives my LCD-XC on low gain (1x) very well. I usually have the volume around 8:30 - 9:00 only when using the balanced output.
> 
> Gotta say, your comment has me perplexed.




Relic, I don't think your comment was directed at me, but it's my understanding that 1x is no gain. Just the source passing through the vol pot. So, with the volume at max you'd be passing 100% (or likely slightly under) of the input. So to drive any headphones would depend on the source output, correct?


----------



## callizer

x relic x said:


> The LC drives my LCD-XC on low gain (1x) very well. I usually have the volume around 8:30 - 9:00 only when using the balanced output.
> 
> Gotta say, your comment has me perplexed.


 
 Have you tried pushing the volume on high gain mode with bassy songs? Bassier songs = more distortion for me.

 I was perplexed too because when I tried it for the first time with HM901s, it was completely fine. I used my friend's trance song (so it has a ton of bass) and it was incredibly good. I turned the volume to a very loud level to the point it's almost unsafe, and there was no distortion at all.


----------



## x RELIC x

jarnopp said:


> Relic, I don't think your comment was directed at me, but it's my understanding that 1x is no gain. Just the source passing through the vol pot. So, with the volume at max you'd be passing 100% (or likely slightly under) of the input. So to drive any headphones would depend on the source output, correct?




Yeah, I was thinking the source may be quiet and that could definitely be a factor. As I understand it the LCD-X is _slightly_ more efficient than the XC (both 20 Ohm impedance and 103 dB vs 100 dB efficiency) so unless other amps previously used are relatively quiet due to the source then the "Liquid Carbon doesn't drive the LCD-X well" comment has me perplexed.


----------



## swspiers

One of my biggest problems with the LC is the seeming lack of any distortion on any of my headphones. I end up listening WAY louder than normal, and find myself back-off the volume after a while. Darn thing just sounds so good.

This is also the first amp where I am confident I will be able to hear differences between DAC's, different masters, and evaluate headphones with some accuracy. I'm still agnostic regarding cables, but this is my first real foray into quality HP amplification. I feel like a newbie, and I do mean that.

The Burson Soloist simply cannot compete with the LC in my system, on any level whatsoever. It's not even close, and the Soloist is a pretty good amp.


----------



## x RELIC x

callizer said:


> Have you tried pushing the volume on high gain mode with bassy songs? Bassier songs = more distortion for me.
> 
> 
> I was perplexed too because when I tried it for the first time with HM901s, it was completely fine. I used my friend's trance song (so it has a ton of bass) and it was incredibly good. I turned the volume to a very loud level to the point it's almost unsafe, and there was no distortion at all.




Yeah, I don't have any issue with bass heavy songs on the LC. Hopefully Alex can help you out. Distortion definitely doesn't appear at all with my XC either. I simply couldn't use the LC / XC combo past 12:00 on the volume knob on 1x gain with my source DACs (DAC-19 and portable DAPs) to the LC for any length of time. 

Going to try the Mojo soon on line level output and I'll report back later.


----------



## woodcans

shini44 said:


> serial?


 
  
 #477.


----------



## woodcans

PHA3 as source driving the LC + mdr- z7 is pretty awesome. Musical, top to bottom extension. Doesn't follow the stereotypes as described in general on the forums, for sure...


----------



## mscott58

I once had a perceived imbalance across a pair of solid-state monoblocks in my 2-channel system that the owner/designer of the amps (Steve McCormack) could not figure out. We literally traced the signal pathway and checked the values of all of the resistors and such. Nothing looked out of place. Other people who listened to my system said I was wrong, that it sounded fine. However, I was sure the image was about 5 degrees off-center to the right. Then a few weeks later I got a call from Steve asking me which very specific model I had and when it was made. Turns out that for that specific unit at that specific time (it had been upgraded by him after manufacturing) they had put one extra resistor on the bottom of the PCB. So I took the monoblocks apart and sure enough the one resistor tucked under the board was different across the pair of amps. Eureka! Steve then tracked down a source for the right (uncommon audiophile grade) resistor and I changed it out and the image snapped right back to the center. I took this as my graduation into the ranks of audiophile snobbery, and put a lot more confidence in my ability to hear things accurately. Without that event I might not be writing reviews and doing product testing today. Live and learn and trust your ears my friends! Cheers


----------



## pippen99

x relic x said:


> The LC drives my LCD-XC on low gain (1x) very well. I usually have the volume around 8:30 - 9:00 only when using the balanced output.
> 
> Gotta say, your comment has me perplexed.


 
 Me too!  I listen to my LCD-X at low gain at about 11:00.  With some tracks that is too loud.


----------



## zachawry

mscott58 said:


> I once had a perceived imbalance across a pair of solid-state monoblocks in my 2-channel system that the owner/designer of the amps (Steve McCormack) could not figure out. We literally traced the signal pathway and checked the values of all of the resistors and such. Nothing looked out of place. Other people who listened to my system said I was wrong, that it sounded fine. However, I was sure the image was about 5 degrees off-center to the right. Then a few weeks later I got a call from Steve asking me which very specific model I had and when it was made. Turns out that for that specific unit at that specific time (it had been upgraded by him after manufacturing) they had put one extra resistor on the bottom of the PCB. So I took the monoblocks apart and sure enough the one resistor tucked under the board was different across the pair of amps. Eureka! Steve then tracked down a source for the right (uncommon audiophile grade) resistor and I changed it out and the image snapped right back to the center. I took this as my graduation into the ranks of audiophile snobbery, and put a lot more confidence in my ability to hear things accurately. Without that event I might not be writing reviews and doing product testing today. Live and learn and trust your ears my friends! Cheers


 

 That's like that anecdote about one of the great baseball hitters (Joe Dimagio?), where someone gives him a bat and he says, "I can't use that, it's off-balance." Everybody else tried it and couldn't fine anything wrong with it. But then, after some serious testing, they did measure that one side of the bat was heavier by a few grams. 
  
 Personally, I'm glad I don't have ears like that!


----------



## scanspeakman1

Received my Carbon today. I asked for a delay myself because of work abroad. I also ordered a Stoner Acoustics EGD DAC. Arrived at the same moment by accident. Seemed like a good match based in the specs. Also full balanced. In fact; the EGD only has xlr-outputs which might be a problem for some people. But not with a Carbon! Also roughly the same size, weight and look. Transportable, USB powered (only input), 16/24/32bit or DSD capable, ESS Sabre9018 based etc.
  
 Did not want to wait for the burn-in so listening (actually ENJOYING) both of them right now with my Ether headphones! Sounds like a really like a good match. First impressions: nothing exeggarated of held beck. Really good, neutral but definitely not dull, pleasant, very very very well controlled, detailled sound! Already hearing details I never heard before. Again; not listening but enjoying!
  
 More then enough power for the Ether by the way. Listening quite loud and the volume knob is only at 9.00 (gain at 1x setting).
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## Cardiiiii

pippen99 said:


> Me too!  I listen to my LCD-X at low gain at about 11:00.  With some tracks that is too loud.




I have my Hugo on blue volume, Amarra for Tidal at -7 and I need my LC between 12 and 3 for my listening levels at 1X gain. Initially I was wondering if the volume is too low from the Carbon. Still sounds good though. I have an LCD2 so maybe they are harder to drive than the LCD X?


----------



## cbar

novaca said:


> No, sn 00368
> And another curiosity: when the volume is at zero, I can still hear the music quietly (especially with gain 3x)


 
  Hey! Now that I tried that I can hear music quietly on 3x too. Gotta stop reading these forums. Otherwise, my LC is fantastic, and I've only listened through SE so far.   ; )


----------



## x RELIC x

cardiiiii said:


> I have my Hugo on blue volume, Amarra for Tidal at -7 and I need my LC between 12 and 3 for my listening levels at 1X gain. Initially I was wondering if the volume is too low from the Carbon. Still sounds good though. I have an LCD2 so maybe they are harder to drive than the LCD X?




Sounds about right with the LCD-2. They are much less efficient than the LCD-X / LCD-XC.


----------



## adobotj

I find that I prefer the volume pot to hover at around 3-10 o'clock using 3x gain for all of my headphones.


----------



## zachawry

In the end, the LC is like upgrading to an entry-level BMW after being perfectly happy with Hondas. 
  
 Yes, it's great, yes, I am enjoying it immensely. 
  
 BUT....I can also see (hear?) what's missing. I can see what the sound must be like when the "Cavalli sound" (or any great amp maker) isn't being severely limited by budget. 
  
 So, I am ambivalent. It is a great amp, well worth the money, but it also makes me acutely aware of what it is not. Maybe I'm just being difficult.


----------



## xanlamin

So what is the LC not doing so well?


----------



## ying

adobotj said:


> Serial 319 has landed! So far no hum or channel imbalances from initial listening. Will have to call in sick today to listen and enjoy this long waited amp for the entire day! All headphones ready, balanced cables ready, dacs ready, music ready! Will be testing everything and any combinations with it. Burn baby burn!!!


 
 Did you end up purchasing the Teac UD 301? I been pairing that balanced with the LC, crazy amazing freaken good man. LOL


----------



## nanoevil

adobotj said:


> Serial 319 has landed! So far no hum or channel imbalances from initial listening. Will have to call in sick today to listen and enjoy this long waited amp for the entire day! All headphones ready, balanced cables ready, dacs ready, music ready! Will be testing everything and any combinations with it. Burn baby burn!!!


 
 nice! mine is serial 102. we almost have the same gears. LCD 2 rev 2 and alphadogs and a chord hugo on mine...how you liking it so far?


----------



## ambrose1985

adobotj said:


> Try lowering down the volume until you reach zero. See if the sound disappears together or if one side goes out first than the other side. That would clearly indicate a channel imbalance.
> 
> It's hard to decipher channel imbalance while listening to music on normal listening volume as there's a lot of factors that could deviate our listening "center" (imaging). Our ears aren't "volume matched" perfectly so there's some deviations here and there.
> 
> ...


 

 Tried this  Black background when zero position and both sides come at the same time. 
  
 Looks like it's the staging; tried to listen to my DAP and IEM to take note (writing it down!) of the staging to see where all the instruments are and it seems that it is the same as from LC. 
  
 I guess it probably means that the staging and imaging of my Audeze LCD-3 is getting more obvious, good news I hope !


----------



## Cardiiiii

nanoevil said:


> nice! mine is serial 102. we almost have the same gears. LCD 2 rev 2 and alphadogs and a chord hugo on mine...how you liking it so far?


 
 What volume levels are you using on the Hugo & LC and PC/Mac?


----------



## adobotj

ying said:


> Did you end up purchasing the Teac UD 301? I been pairing that balanced with the LC, crazy amazing freaken good man. LOL




Hey, Ying! Wow man you have good memory! Yes I was planning and still planning to purchase the teac ud301 for balance pairing to the LC. I'm just waiting for it to arrive at my local shop here as they have the ud501. Glad to know you're liking that pairing! Makes me wonder with excitement.  

Thanks man!


----------



## adobotj

nanoevil said:


> nice! mine is serial 102. we almost have the same gears. LCD 2 rev 2 and alphadogs and a chord hugo on mine...how you liking it so far?




Hey, nanoevil! It's great! So far on its 48 hours burn in now and I'm enjoying the metamorphosis. It's l blossoming gradually into an amazingly beautiful flower opening up and getting more refined day by day. I like the mojo+LC very much and it sounds wonderful on all my headphones. Very transparent and powerful. I can only imagine how wonderful It is sounding from your setup (hugo). 

How's your setup sounds like? Liking it?


----------



## adobotj

ambrose1985 said:


> Tried this  Black background when zero position and both sides come at the same time.
> 
> Looks like it's the staging; tried to listen to my DAP and IEM to take note (writing it down!) of the staging to see where all the instruments are and it seems that it is the same as from LC.
> 
> I guess it probably means that the staging and imaging of my Audeze LCD-3 is getting more obvious, good news I hope !




Very good! It's good news. It means your LC doesn't have channel imbalance  what source do you feed to your LC?


----------



## ambrose1985

adobotj said:


> Very good! It's good news. It means your LC doesn't have channel imbalance
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 mac -> chord hugo -> LC ! 
  
 I hope it's good news indeed, will monitor the situation haha.


----------



## Youth

On 1x gain and volume pot on zero I get no sound but when I do the same with x3 gain I hear the music very slightly. Is this normal? This is single-ended by the way.


----------



## adobotj

ambrose1985 said:


> mac -> chord hugo -> LC !
> 
> I hope it's good news indeed, will monitor the situation haha.




Nice setup! It's sounds wonderful with my mojo, I bet it sounds amazing with the hugo!  

Keep on monitoring an observing using various setup and music genre's. In my situation I find that my center is off a bit to the left of center in whatever setup I'm using. Found out that I have a very minor hearing sensitivity depression on my right ear that's deviating the soundstage to my left (because my left ear is more sensitive than my right).


----------



## XenHeadFi

youth said:


> On 1x gain and volume pot on zero I get no sound but when I do the same with x3 gain I hear the music very slightly. Is this normal? This is single-ended by the way.


 
 For small volume potentiometers, bleed through (a channel imbalance) at the minimum and maximum positions are common. I was told by Dr. Cavalli and other knowledgible people that as long as the channel imbalance disappears quickly than it is in spec.
  
 Bleed through only on 3x gain is performing better than my original board. If you don't want to take millivolt readings and calculate dB based on your headphones, you can use the Philips Golden Ear challenge, which has channel imbalance tests in the Bronze Ear section. Also, the brain is notorious for "fixing" minor balance issue by compensating when processing the sound. It takes time for the brain to be retrain, hence "brain burn-in".


----------



## Youth

xenheadfi said:


> For small volume potentiometers, bleed through (a channel imbalance) at the minimum and maximum positions are common. I was told by Dr. Cavalli and other knowledgible people that as long as the channel imbalance disappears quickly than it is in spec.
> 
> Bleed through only on 3x gain is performing better than my original board. If you don't want to take millivolt readings and calculate dB based on your headphones, you can use the Philips Golden Ear challenge, which has channel imbalance tests in the Bronze Ear section. Also, the brain is notorious for "fixing" minor balance issue by compensating when processing the sound. It takes time for the brain to be retrain, hence "brain burn-in".


 
  
 It's weird though. I tried the same test on here http://www.soundliaison.com/studio-masters/208-carmen-gomes-inc-little-blue and had no bleed through on 3x gain. The first test was done on Window Media Player with one of my CD's.


----------



## ambrose1985

adobotj said:


> Nice setup! It's sounds wonderful with my mojo, I bet it sounds amazing with the hugo!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes it does ! 
  
 Previously I was listening directly from the Hugo, and when I was A/B-ing between connecting to the LC vs the Hugo directly, the change in the sound stage is phenomenal. 
  
 But I'm waiting for my Yggy !


----------



## 3rddimension

In order to drive my Alpha Primes efficiently the volume pot floats between 12 - 2 o'clock at 3x gain. I am not experiencing any channel imbalance on mine.


----------



## swspiers

3rddimension said:


> In order to drive my Alpha Primes efficiently the volume pot floats between 12 - 2 o'clock at 3x gain. I am not experiencing any channel imbalance on mine.




That was my experience for the first 2 weeks. Now I have the volume below 12:00 at 3x gain, and about 3:00 in 1x gain.

Burn in? Acclimating to it? Not sure....


----------



## zachawry

xanlamin said:


> So what is the LC not doing so well?


 

 It's got great macrodynamics/fun/engagement, but I can see how there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of clarity/coherence/refinement.
  
 Just a guess because I haven't heard the rest of the Cavalli lineup, but I can imagine that throwing a few more thousand dollars at the problem would go really far.


----------



## zachawry

swspiers said:


> That was my experience for the first 2 weeks. Now I have the volume below 12:00 at 3x gain, and about 3:00 in 1x gain.
> 
> Burn in? Acclimating to it? Not sure....


 

 Maybe my Hugo gives really a really hot signal, but at 3X with my Primes I'm at about 9:00.


----------



## swspiers

zachawry said:


> swspiers said:
> 
> 
> > That was my experience for the first 2 weeks. Now I have the volume below 12:00 at 3x gain, and about 3:00 in 1x gain.
> ...




One more thing, not all recordings are at the same volume, especially pre-loudness war stuff. Lots of variables in this here hobby!


----------



## xanlamin

zachawry said:


> It's got great macrodynamics/fun/engagement, but I can see how there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of clarity/coherence/refinement.
> 
> Just a guess because I haven't heard the rest of the Cavalli lineup, but I can imagine that throwing a few more thousand dollars at the problem would go really far.


 
 Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps you can let the amp run for a few more days. Things may improve


----------



## zachawry

xanlamin said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps you can let the amp run for a few more days. Things may improve


 

 I think it's got close to 200 hours on it, so I doubt it. 
  
 Again, I really like it. It's a great amp, and a fantastic one for the price. But even though an entry level "cheap" BMW is still a really nice car compared to the Hondas, it still can't compete with the cars that everybody thinks of when they think of BMWs.


----------



## jarnopp

zachawry said:


> It's got great macrodynamics/fun/engagement, but I can see how there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of clarity/coherence/refinement.
> 
> Just a guess because I haven't heard the rest of the Cavalli lineup, but I can imagine that throwing a few more thousand dollars at the problem would go really far.




Initial impressions with only 60 hours of burn in, but I do find the LC (fed by iPhone -> Mojo) to be extremely refined in sound, even on grungy stuff, which may be some of what you are hearing, or rather not hearing. More detail and less distortion?


----------



## Music Path

youth said:


> It's weird though. I tried the same test on here http://www.soundliaison.com/studio-masters/208-carmen-gomes-inc-little-blue and had no bleed through on 3x gain. The first test was done on Window Media Player with one of my CD's.




I would recomend you to use Foobar2000 instead of Windows Media Player. 

Cheers


----------



## Youth

music path said:


> I would recomend you to use Foobar2000 instead of Windows Media Player.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I'm planning to install that with ASIO driver since Windows Player isn't the best. I'll probably also do some other custom tweaks on top of that.


----------



## rigo

scanspeakman1 said:


> Received my Carbon today. I asked for a delay myself because of work abroad. I also ordered a Stoner Acoustics EGD DAC. Arrived at the same moment by accident. Seemed like a good match based in the specs. Also full balanced. In fact; the EGD only has xlr-outputs which might be a problem for some people. But not with a Carbon! Also roughly the same size, weight and look. Transportable, USB powered (only input), 16/24/32bit or DSD capable, ESS Sabre9018 based etc.
> 
> Did not want to wait for the burn-in so listening (actually ENJOYING) both of them right now with my Ether headphones! Sounds like a really like a good match. First impressions: nothing exeggarated of held beck. Really good, neutral but definitely not dull, pleasant, very very very well controlled, detailled sound! Already hearing details I never heard before. Again; not listening but enjoying!
> 
> ...




Same setup in the bedroom. Currently mostly use Oppo PM3 since they're my only closed phones, but I'm considering the Ether C or possibly the new T5s coming out as upgrades. When I have a chance and alone I use Senn 650s and loving the sound. My previous setup was a Dragonfly.


----------



## chefboyarlee

I'm an idiot move along...


----------



## musiclvr

3rddimension said:


> In order to drive my Alpha Primes efficiently the volume pot floats between 12 - 2 o'clock at 3x gain. I am not experiencing any channel imbalance on mine.



Wow, I guess the Alpha Primes need a lot more juice than the Alpha Dogs (AD's). Are your Primes balanced or single ended? My AD's are balanced and I listen between 10-12 o'clock at 1x gain with the LC. I do have to be careful with the LC as it does not impart any distortion which makes me want to listen a little louder than I would normally to just get immersed in audio nirvana!


----------



## coastal1

For headphones like the HD650 that aren't (relatively) hard to drive, should using 1x gain with higher volume vs. 3x gain with lower volume make a difference?  I haven't experimented much, but seem to slightly prefer 3x gain with low volume seems as it seems to provide more punch, but could all be in my mind.


----------



## Cardiiiii

coastal1 said:


> For headphones like the HD650 that aren't (relatively) hard to drive, should using 1x gain with higher volume vs. 3x gain with lower volume make a difference?  I haven't experimented much, but seem to slightly prefer 3x gain with low volume seems as it seems to provide more punch, but could all be in my mind.


 
  
 This is an interesting question. Anyone?


----------



## NiceGuyTom

#497 - burning in atm


----------



## swspiers

coastal1 said:


> For headphones like the HD650 that aren't (relatively) hard to drive, should using 1x gain with higher volume vs. 3x gain with lower volume make a difference?  I haven't experimented much, but seem to slightly prefer 3x gain with low volume seems as it seems to provide more punch, but could all be in my mind.




As long as the headphones aren't too sensitive, and you aren't picking up noise or distortion, there is no problem at all. Many will claim that amps don't sound great until the attenuator is opened up, but there's no hard and fast rule to that.

The crazy thing would be changing what you like based on what a handful of 'experts' tell you is best. IMHO and YMMV and all that


----------



## zachawry

jarnopp said:


> Initial impressions with only 60 hours of burn in, but I do find the LC (fed by iPhone -> Mojo) to be extremely refined in sound, even on grungy stuff, which may be some of what you are hearing, or rather not hearing. More detail and less distortion?


 

 Well, I am comparing it to the Hugo alone, which does have extremely clear, refined sound. But even on extremely well-recorded acoustic, classical, or ambient recordings, I still feel like the LC has a lot of room for improvement in the clarity/coherence department.
  
 And hey, it's a $600 amp. Saying, "It's great, but I bet a $3000 amp made by the same guy must offer a lot more" should not be a controversial statement.


----------



## jarnopp

zachawry said:


> Well, I am comparing it to the Hugo alone, which does have extremely clear, refined sound. But even on extremely well-recorded acoustic, classical, or ambient recordings, I still feel like the LC has a lot of room for improvement in the clarity/coherence department.
> 
> And hey, it's a $600 amp. Saying, "It's great, but I bet a $3000 amp made by the same guy must offer a lot more" should not be a controversial statement.


 

@zachawry what headphones are you using?  Hugo (like Mojo that I'm using) probably has enough to drive most anything.  I've been mostly listening to HE-6s because, even though they were used, PO said they had about 200 hours on them, so I want to make sure they are broken in along with the LC.  So, Mojo is ok but not completely satisfying for the HE-6s.  With the LC, they really can sound good (bring it on, haters, who swear LC can't drive HE-6s).  That is with Mojo at 3v line out and 3x gain with volume between 11:30 and 2:30 for fairly robust listening, which I was doing a lot of just now to prove/disprove that the LC could drive them.  It sounds sweet at 11 for background listening, to me, without a loss of dynamics.
  
 And, let me add, I was comparing the LC to the HE-6s driven by my Odyssey Stratos Stereo Extreme amp with the Hifiman speaker adapter.  This is a 70 lb., 150 w/channel amp with 2 x 400 VA transformers and 180,000 microF of capacitance.  It has the goods to drive the HE-6 with authority, and it sounds fantastic, but is inconvenient for me to use it as the primary headphone amp.  I would say it will require more listening, and to be fair, I have to take the preamp out of the chain or add it between the Mojo and LC for complete comparison, but aside from a slightly different sound sig (not to far off each other, actually), the LC can deliver 95-98% of the authority the Stratos does, and that is even debatable depending on how the ultimate sound sig comparison comes out.


----------



## jarnopp

cardiiiii said:


> This is an interesting question. Anyone?


 

 My theory (and it would be great for an engineer or @runeight to chime in) is that 1x means you are using the source, only.  If you run out of juice from the source on 1x, the amp is not going to help you.  It's there to provide a volume adjustment and a balanced out if you are using that output.  If you have a hard-to-drive headphone where you will exceed the capabilities of the source, it's better to use 3x because then, whether needed all the time or not, the LC amplifier stage is actually in the mix and will provide headroom.  Theory only, but would be great to get confirmation or facts on this.  Thanks.


----------



## adobotj

coastal1 said:


> For headphones like the HD650 that aren't (relatively) hard to drive, should using 1x gain with higher volume vs. 3x gain with lower volume make a difference?  I haven't experimented much, but seem to slightly prefer 3x gain with low volume seems as it seems to provide more punch, but could all be in my mind.




This is what I also prefer and do. Even on my intruder I always set it to high gain to be able to just hover at low volume. I also experience it to provide more punch and power to it.


----------



## defbear

I am beginning to think that if the amps absolutely need Burn-in as the instruction manual says, then they should have been burned in by Cavalli audio. It seems there has been a hundred different ways to burn the thing in and nothing is consistent. Like a Martin Guitar, the amps were not finished when received by the user but were in untested kit form for us to burn in haphazardly. Now we seem to have a lot of different Liquid Carbons with imbalance problems and what not. I still think my amp had more bottom end before putting it through "The Burning". I asked Alex about burning in gradually or all at 150 hours at once. I got a two word answer. "It's better". Perhaps he's sick of the entire project. When you get down to it, Cavalli, Schiit and everyone else is simply in Retail. Just like Best Buy. Throw Socks. The amps should have been finished in-house.


----------



## jarnopp

defbear said:


> I am beginning to think that if the amps absolutely need Burn-in as the instruction manual says, then they should have been burned in by Cavalli audio. It seems there has been a hundred different ways to burn the thing in and nothing is consistent. Like a Martin Guitar, the amps were not finished when received by the user but were in untested kit form for us to burn in haphazardly. Now we seem to have a lot of different Liquid Carbons with imbalance problems and what not. I still think my amp had more bottom end before putting it through "The Burning". I asked Alex about burning in gradually or all at 150 hours at once. I got a two word answer. "It's better". Perhaps he's sick of the entire project. When you get down to it, Cavalli, Schiit and everyone else is simply in Retail. Just like Best Buy. Throw Socks. The amps should have been finished in-house.




As someone who had an amp sent back and repaired, I totally understand your frustration. But I have approached the LC with a dirpfferent mindset than "retail" - more like a Kickstarter campaign, with the benefits being that you can get in on the ground floor of something special (sound, price, and community of interested people waiting for it to arrive). I think it is a lesson to all, but not necessarily a bad one. I am living the sound of the second unit at 75 hours continuous burn in so far.


----------



## scanspeakman1

I think this is part of the learning curve for a company. Cavalli has never done a product in these numbers. That takes a different approach. I hope they have learned from this product. Do it again but in another way or stick to the high priced models in low volumes. And when you read the "adventures" of the Schiit founder, there are some many things that can go wrong with a product like this. Again, this is a first for the company and lets keep this in mind.
  
 Maybe expectations grew a little out of proportion over time. Anything less than an amp that gives us an immediate eargasm, thats bulletproof, delivers 99,999% of the sound of the higher priced models, etc will not meet the expectations by some people. Lets just see how Cavalli handles any technical problems with the product. 
  
 For me; I now have a really nice amp that perfectly fits my needs for a price thats a little higher then I first thought I would spend. But I am not regretting any pennie of it now because I really enjoy listening to it. Yes probably there are better products for more money but so what. It still is a great product for a great price.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## mscott58

defbear said:


> I am beginning to think that if the amps absolutely need Burn-in as the instruction manual says, then they should have been burned in by Cavalli audio. It seems there has been a hundred different ways to burn the thing in and nothing is consistent. Like a Martin Guitar, the amps were not finished when received by the user but were in untested kit form for us to burn in haphazardly. Now we seem to have a lot of different Liquid Carbons with imbalance problems and what not. I still think my amp had more bottom end before putting it through "The Burning". I asked Alex about burning in gradually or all at 150 hours at once. I got a two word answer. "It's better". Perhaps he's sick of the entire project. When you get down to it, Cavalli, Schiit and everyone else is simply in Retail. Just like Best Buy. Throw Socks. The amps should have been finished in-house.


 
 Keeping 500 amps burning in, plugged in with music playing and headphones attached, for 150 hours would take forever and cost a ton. People were already about to burn Alex at the stake for any and all delays. Not realistic IMO. And my guess is that the imbalance has nothing to do with the burn-in, but rather the amps themselves, as he was having a bunch of issues with the manufacturer. And to my engineering mind I simply don't see a way that burning in an amp could affect the balance between channels. Cheers


----------



## coastal1

mscott58 said:


> Keeping 500 amps burning in, plugged in with music playing and headphones attached, for 150 hours would take forever and cost a ton. People were already about to burn Alex at the stake for any and all delays. Not realistic IMO. And my guess is that the imbalance has nothing to do with the burn-in, but rather the amps themselves, as he was having a bunch of issues with the manufacturer. And to my engineering mind I simply don't see a way that burning in an amp could affect the balance between channels. Cheers




I'm thrilled with my amp. No issues. That said, there's no improvement in my amp after burn in, which is fine, I loved it after 24 hours... The manual recommends in BOLD to "disconnect your headphones" when not listening during burn in. I didn't do this, but if Cavalli followed its own guidelines and burned in on site, it wouldn't have cost hardly anything, much less a ton.


----------



## doctorjazz

And, to use the given example, no one expects Martin to break in their guitars before shipping (I understand it is a long break in). 

And, getting back to some of the back and forth on whether the LC is the best thing since Mother's Milk...
All I can say, My LC is really good
My MicroZOTL2 is better.

LC is bedside system (Pono/LC/iem usually)
MicroZOTL2 is next system up (PC/LH Labs 2G USB/REgen/Geek Out Special Edition/MicroZOTL2/HE-1000 with Norne Zoetic cables)
Best is main system, speakers, turntable, ect (but listen to the headphone systems much more). Connecting my ZOTL to the Linn Turntable, then listening to the HEK is amazing (but very inconvenient with the current set up, waiting for a Norne extension to make this easier to do). 

And, it is no shame for the LC to be bested by gear that costs twice as much or more...


----------



## doctorjazz

And, I agree with the comment this is more like crowdfunding than regular retail deals.
(and, remember, it could be worse...could be on the wait for LH Labs gear...seems I may get the Vi Tube Dac this year, maybe...)


----------



## coastal1

scanspeakman1 said:


> I think this is part of the learning curve for a company. Cavalli has never done a product in these numbers. That takes a different approach. I hope they have learned from this product. Do it again but in another way or stick to the high priced models in low volumes. And when you read the "adventures" of the Schiit founder, there are some many things that can go wrong with a product like this. Again, this is a first for the company and lets keep this in mind.
> 
> Maybe expectations grew a little out of proportion over time. Anything less than an amp that gives us an immediate eargasm, thats bulletproof, delivers 99,999% of the sound of the higher priced models, etc will not meet the expectations by some people. Lets just see how Cavalli handles any technical problems with the product.
> 
> ...




I'm thrilled with my amp but feel bad for people having issues. Cavalli already had a portable amp in the works before I got my Carbon that will surely exceed 500 units. So I'm sure they will learn from this, but at the same time they were marching ahead with a much more mass produced amp while there were apparently manufacturing issues with the Carbon.


----------



## defbear

jarnopp said:


> As someone who had an amp sent back and repaired, I totally understand your frustration. But I have approached the LC with a dirpfferent mindset than "retail" - more like a Kickstarter campaign, with the benefits being that you can get in on the ground floor of something special (sound, price, and community of interested people waiting for it to arrive). I think it is a lesson to all, but not necessarily a bad one. I am living the sound of the second unit at 75 hours continuous burn in so far.


Kickstarter is not a bad way of thinking about it I agree. So far the waiting and anticipation and reading the Immense Complaining has been more fun than the amp. I would buy the amp again just for the amp. I wouldn't let it go through "The Burning" again for sure. Mine is maybe a little shy on the bass but perhaps not. Perhaps the amp just opened up on the upper mids and detail. I bought some th900's to compensate. My amp is working fine. 
I have some advice. Sometimes with a new piece of equipment you might hear a funny sound. And then later you don't. And later, you think you hear it. Maybe not. And you keep looking for it. STOP! DO NOT SEARCH FOR IT!!!!!!! A person winds up hearing nothing but the offending noise! And then the person asks me "What can I do?" The answer "Buy a different Guitar (oops I mean Amp), this ones ruined for you." And there could be nothing really wrong with the amp in question. But the one little thing bugging them will never go away. The Engineer's I deal with are the worst (throw socks now all of you)!
Don't inspect your wonderful new Cavalli to death. Just play it in a normal manner.


----------



## bflat

coastal1 said:


> I'm thrilled with my amp. No issues. That said, there's no improvement in my amp after burn in, which is fine, I loved it after 24 hours... The manual recommends in BOLD to "disconnect your headphones" when not listening during burn in. I didn't do this, but if Cavalli followed its own guidelines and burned in on site, it wouldn't have cost hardly anything, much less a ton.


 

 cost hardly anything? I bet setting up the physical space, testing stations, commercial wiring, hiring technicians for burning in 100 amps at a time would cost something north of $50K. I don't know about the audio business, but in commercial real estate, just wiring power and ethernet for an office of 50 cubes will run you $10K. If my estimate is accurate, you just added $100 overhead cost to each of our LC amps. Sure, they can use the initial investment over again, but when do you expect the next run of LC amps to happen?


----------



## defbear

mscott58 said:


> Keeping 500 amps burning in, plugged in with music playing and headphones attached, for 150 hours would take forever and cost a ton. People were already about to burn Alex at the stake for any and all delays. Not realistic IMO. And my guess is that the imbalance has nothing to do with the burn-in, but rather the amps themselves, as he was having a bunch of issues with the manufacturer. And to my engineering mind I simply don't see a way that burning in an amp could affect the balance between channels. Cheers


Really? (sorry to editorialize) The purpose, I am told, of burning in an amp is to change it quickly. I goes both ways. Channel imbalance may well be a by product of the amp suffering through "The Burning". And the amp is not being used in the normal manner. It is being put under duress. Go drive the car at 120 mph, even in Texas, and something just might go wrong. Bah!


----------



## coastal1

bflat said:


> cost hardly anything? I bet setting up the physical space, testing stations, commercial wiring, hiring technicians for burning in 100 amps at a time would cost something north of $50K. I don't know about the audio business, but in commercial real estate, just wiring power and ethernet for an office of 50 cubes will run you $10K. If my estimate is accurate, you just added $100 overhead cost to each of our LC amps. Sure, they can use the initial investment over again, but when do you expect the next run of LC amps to happen?




That's crazy talk. Those estimates are extremely exaggerated and more importantly sunk costs. The physical space was already needed and paid for to manufacture the amps. According to the burn in instructions, you don't only not need to listen during burn in, but you're supposed to disconnect headphones when not listening... Any Ethernet needed wouldn't be needed for burn in.


----------



## bflat

coastal1 said:


> That's crazy talk. Those estimates are extremely exaggerated and more importantly sunk costs. The physical space was already needed and paid for to manufacture the amps. According to the burn in instructions, you don't only not need to listen during burn in, but you're supposed to disconnect headphones when not listening... Any Ethernet needed wouldn't be needed for burn in.


 

 We are both making speculative statements. So to keep this conversation relevant to LC, how about we change the question? I believe that you agree it will cost something more to add in 150 hours of pre burn in at manufacture. What are you willing to pay on top of $599 for pre burn in versus doing it yourself. I think that would be useful information for Cavalli to consider if it's feasible or not.
  
 My vote would be under $50.
  
 BTW the office build out cost is accurate since I just signed the invoice for it.


----------



## defbear

And don't forget. They would need power cords.


----------



## zachawry

jarnopp said:


> @zachawry what headphones are you using?


 
  
 I'm using the Alpha Primes and the Ethers. The Alpha Primes are harder to drive, and they benefit more from the LC compared to the Hugo alone. 
  
 The Hugo alone offers incredible clarity, while the LC sacrifices some of this clarity for punch and a more holographic soundstage. I'm imagining that the Crimson or Gold would take back some of this loss in clarity. Of course I'm just hypothesizing. s


----------



## grizzlybeast

@bflat Sorry if you have already covered this somewhere but I see in your sig you have the Mjolnir 2. Would you care to compare it to the LC. Im sure Im not the only one curious. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jarnopp

zachawry said:


> I'm using the Alpha Primes and the Ethers. The Alpha Primes are harder to drive, and they benefit more from the LC compared to the Hugo alone.
> 
> The Hugo alone offers incredible clarity, while the LC sacrifices some of this clarity for punch and a more holographic soundstage. I'm imagining that the Crimson or Gold would take back some of this loss in clarity. Of course I'm just hypothesizing. s




Yes, I would love to hear those too. Somewhere it has to end, though (doesn't it?)...


----------



## doctorjazz

Who says? 
Audiophilia Nervosa strikes again!


----------



## bflat

grizzlybeast said:


> @bflat
> Sorry if you have already covered this somewhere but I see in your sig you have the Mjolnir 2. Would you care to compare it to the LC. Im sure Im not the only one curious.
> 
> Thanks!




Will do! LC is currently burning in and will continue while I am out of town next week so it will be next weekend for a comparison. I will most likely use Mojo or Gumby in SE output so that I can have both LC and MJ2 connected simultaneously for easy switching back and forth. I will compare the Ether C and Layla in balanced mode.


----------



## UnknownOperator

Peridot and Flashcolor, did you contact Cavalli about the issues you are having with the SE output? 
  
 It appears that I am having the same issue. SE output only (the balanced output appears to be clean and quiet). I have the Carbon installed alongside a Violectric V181. Both are fed by balanced outputs from my Toft ATB console. Everything in my studio is dead silent. I have installed dedicated circuits and power isolation equipment to pull this off. I work with a lot of "vintage" gear like Eventide harmonizers, tape echo machines and spring reverb units. The noise I am experiencing at the Carbon's SE output sounds exactly like the transformer buzz that I get with my old Furman spring reverb unit. Taking the Carbon out of the loop of my Furman AR1215 and powering it from a Tripp Lite power isolation brick, the noise is attenuated some, but not completely gone. I also connected SE headphones to the Carbon without the Carbon connected to anything at the input stage and the buzz persists.
  
 The balanced output sounds pretty great with my ZMF Omni and HE-500, but the SE output noise/buzz is apparent enough at 1x power that I have been hesitant to use my Grado headphones to check mixes. I am going to contact Cavalli today. Will let you know what I find out unless you beat me to it.


----------



## musiclvr

unknownoperator said:


> Peridot and Flashcolor, did you contact Cavalli about the issues you are having with the SE output?
> 
> It appears that I am having the same issue. SE output only (the balanced output appears to be clean and quiet). I have the Carbon installed alongside a Violectric V181. Both are fed by balanced outputs from my Toft ATB console. Everything in my studio is dead silent. I have installed dedicated circuits and power isolation equipment to pull this off. I work with a lot of "vintage" gear like Eventide harmonizers, tape echo machines and spring reverb units. The noise I am experiencing at the Carbon's SE output sounds exactly like the transformer buzz that I get with my old Furman spring reverb unit. Taking the Carbon out of the loop of my Furman AR1215 and powering it from a Tripp Lite power isolation brick, the noise is attenuated some, but not completely gone. I also connected SE headphones to the Carbon without the Carbon connected to anything at the input stage and the buzz persists.
> 
> The balanced output sounds pretty great with my ZMF Omni and HE-500, but the SE output noise/buzz is apparent enough at 1x power that I have been hesitant to use my Grado headphones to check mixes. I am going to contact Cavalli today. Will let you know what I find out unless you beat me to it.



@UnknownOperator I look forward to any response you receive as I have the same issue. It seems that any headphone I have that is <32ohms I hear said noise/buzz through the SE output. On a side note, I tried swapping out the cable I am currently using (the supplied power cord from my Asgard 2 amp) with the beefier cable supplied with the the Airist Audio Heron 5; and I found that the noise/buzz didn't increase or decrease in level but became more defined! The noise/buzz level also didn't change when I turned the volume pot up either, it is just a constant. This test was done with nothing else connected to the LC other than the power cord.


----------



## Audio Addict

I decided to try the LC balanced from my Meridian 808.2i. It is plugged into a PS Audio P3 now. Wow, what a total transformation. The Meridian is old school and strictly CD player. Much more warmth / analog presentation. Much more air around the music like a more intimate setting. The depth of the soundstage is deeper as well. Overall just more of everything to pull you into the music.


----------



## Peridot

When I originally checked mine with no input cables attached, I'm sure it was completely quiet so I had put the noise issue down to my Emotiva DAC.
  
 I've just checked it again however and I'm getting a different result. With no input cables attached and fairly sensitive headphones (TP51s) connected to the SE output, there's a constant low level 'drone' almost like an aircraft engine noise.
  
 This is audible at all volume levels from zero upwards. At high volume levels (past 2 o'clock in x3, almost full volume in x1) there's a louder interference that is clearly 50Hz 'transformer' noise.
  
 The noise is the same at both settings of the input switch.
  
 The balanced output remains quiet in all circumstances.
  
 It would be helpful if Cavalli could shed some light on what might be causing the interference in SE output mode.


----------



## CrispyWonton

peridot said:


> When I originally checked mine with no input cables attached, I'm sure it was completely quiet so I had put the noise issue down to my Emotiva DAC.
> 
> I've just checked it again however and I'm getting a different result. With no input cables attached and fairly sensitive headphones (TP51s) connected to the SE output, there's a constant low level 'drone' almost like an aircraft engine noise.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have to say I am also getting a low hum on my LC. This is with no source connected and with sensitive IEMs connected to the SE output as well. The hum is not affected by the volume control. It does increase in level after some minutes, though. If I do have a source connected, the low hum increases after some time to a level that is distracting to the music currently playing.
  
 Am still waiting on balanced cables to compare balanced output, but it seems like we may be observing the same issue.
  
 For what it's worth, I tried using a cheater plug with my power cord to test if the hum would go away but I still observe the same behavior.


----------



## Dave74

peridot said:


> When I originally checked mine with no input cables attached, I'm sure it was completely quiet so I had put the noise issue down to my Emotiva DAC.
> 
> I've just checked it again however and I'm getting a different result. With no input cables attached and fairly sensitive headphones (TP51s) connected to the SE output, there's a constant low level 'drone' almost like an aircraft engine noise.
> 
> ...


 

 The hum I get from the SE isn't there when I first turn the amp on.  It builds up after about 30-45 minutes of use. I have tried turning it off and then back on and the hum increases within a few seconds while the amp is still warm.  This is probably why I didn't notice it before break-in, as I had just tried my JVC IEM's for 1 song.  
  
 My balanced output is quiet at well.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Pretty sure Alex said a hum or whatever is normal with sensitive IEMs from the SE output.


----------



## CrispyWonton

cardiiiii said:


> Pretty sure Alex said a hum or whatever is normal with sensitive IEMs from the SE output.


 
  
 Yes, it has been mentioned in the past. But I don't believe anyone had mentioned at the time that what begins as a low hum increases in intensity with time. Since more LC owners are now coming back with the same findings, I'd like to find out if this is still considered normal.


----------



## Peridot

dave74 said:


> The hum I get from the SE isn't there when I first turn the amp on.  It builds up after about 30-45 minutes of use.


 
  
 That would explain why I didn't notice it the first time. The amp was started from cold then, but tonight it had been on for a few hours before I checked it.


----------



## CrispyWonton

peridot said:


> That would explain why I didn't notice it the first time. The amp was started from cold then, but tonight it had been on for a few hours before I checked it.


 
  
 I observe the level of hum to increase to a distracting level within 30-45 minutes of use, same as @Dave74


----------



## CrispyWonton

My apologies, everyone. I realize now these messages are more appropriate in the other thread ...


----------



## coastal1

bflat said:


> We are both making speculative statements. So to keep this conversation relevant to LC, how about we change the question? I believe that you agree it will cost something more to add in 150 hours of pre burn in at manufacture. What are you willing to pay on top of $599 for pre burn in versus doing it yourself. I think that would be useful information for Cavalli to consider if it's feasible or not.
> 
> My vote would be under $50.
> 
> BTW the office build out cost is accurate since I just signed the invoice for it.



Okay, that's somewhat of a backtrack from your previous estimates.

I love my amp so wouldn't pay anything extra for burn in onsite. Burn in was supposed to improve the sound of the amp but it seems it's really just illuminating problems with amps, and it seems that the number of amps with problems is much larger than one would expect from a run of 500.

It certainly sounds like Cavalli is handing these problems in a professional manner, but also seems like a little more quality check on the frotnt end wouldve avoided amps getting sent back and less headaches on both ends


----------



## doctorjazz

He can't win...there was a furor here whenever someone had to wait a day longer to get their LC. Now, they rushed them out too quickly, didn't take long enough to burn them in before shipping, not enough time on quality control. Wonder if Alex will do this again...


----------



## Cardiiiii

I reckon the next batch of LCs will be made the same way his other amps are made.


----------



## mscott58

cardiiiii said:


> I reckon the next batch of LCs will be made the same way his other amps are made.


 
 That's assuming he'd jump into the hornets nest again...


----------



## XenHeadFi

coastal1 said:


> I love my amp so wouldn't pay anything extra for burn in onsite. Burn in was supposed to improve the sound of the amp but it seems it's really just illuminating problems with amps, and it seems that the number of amps with problems is much larger than one would expect from a run of 500.
> 
> It certainly sounds like Cavalli is handing these problems in a professional manner, but also seems like a little more quality check on the frotnt end wouldve avoided amps getting sent back and less headaches on both ends


 
  
 I think for my amp, burn in helped show there was a problem with the volume pot earlier than if I had not burned it in. I was making good use of the pot, trying to understand at volumes on 3x and 1x gains were to my liking.
  
 Also, I remember hearing a slight bit of noise only when sound was being played at hour 0. There was a harshness when sounds decayed or in quiet parts, like there was a high noise floor. This occurred on my first amp and on my repaired one. By the next day, the noise had disappeared and never returned to either amp. A new kind of noise appeared after burn in, due to a malfunction of the volume pot. I had expected the Carbon to sound perfect, like my other consumer electronics, but those usually do get a 24-hour burn-in to find premature failures.
  
 As for the apparent high number of issues, that is a very common selection bias. People with problems are more likely to post than people who do not have any problems because people with problems are seeking advice.


----------



## doctorjazz

This is true...5 or 10 complaints seems like a lot on the thread, but isn't that much percentage wise...


----------



## Dave74

coastal1 said:


> Okay, that's somewhat of a backtrack from your previous estimates.
> 
> I love my amp so wouldn't pay anything extra for burn in onsite. Burn in was supposed to improve the sound of the amp but it seems it's really just illuminating problems with amps, and it seems that the number of amps with problems is much larger than one would expect from a run of 500.
> 
> It certainly sounds like Cavalli is handing these problems in a professional manner, but also seems like a little more quality check on the frotnt end wouldve avoided amps getting sent back and less headaches on both ends


 

 I burnt in my LC mostly through regular listening with my balanced HE-500. The rest of the time was without headphones plugged in.  I turned it off every night so everything would have a chance to properly cool down and warm back up, just like how I will be using it.  
  
 Yes mine has a hum, but it does not really bother me as I can't hear it while music is playing on my Nighthawks, which are the only SE headphone I will probably be using with it.   
  
 I still think doing a burn in was a good idea as I feel potential problems are more likely to show up when the amp is new.  Also,  I actually enjoy burning in new gear myself, it's part of the fun and excitement of getting new gear.
  
 And yes, I am still am loving my LC and am very happy with my purchase


----------



## coastal1

mscott58 said:


> That's assuming he'd jump into the hornets nest again...




A Cavalli portable amp was in the works with a naming contest and everything before the Carbons were shipped, surely the production run on the portable will be far greater than 500.

I love my amp and of course have no problem with a business running like a business (I.e., trying to make money), but let's not pretend that's it's something different


----------



## jlbrach

This is true...5 or 10 complaints seems like a lot on the thread, but isn't that much percentage wise...
  
 actually it is a rather large number since there are only 500 units out there


----------



## defbear

Dang DJ! Looking at the word ZOTL all the time makes me want one. But they are "only" Single Ended. Pa'shaw! 
My Liquid Carbon is from the first batch. All of my testing was done without the LC being attached to anything except AC and the headphones. All headphones had the same results from 25 to 300 ohms. Both 1x and 3x had the same results. If I plug in a set of SE headphones the amp is silent with the volume turned down. As I turn the volume up I hear an ambient hum that starts about 12 o'clock. If I turn the volume all the way up the hum gets louder. Turn it down it gets softer. It fades below 12 o'clock. Even Single Ended I can't get the amp above 11 o'clock without risk of hearing damage. It is almost unfair to call it a hum as it does not sound abnormal. It does not waver up or down,or vary in any way. Just ambience. When I perform the same test with Balanced headphones of any type, the LC sounds like it's turned off. If I attach and turn on my Emotiva Stealth Dac 1 it makes no difference. The Emotiva is attached with balanced cables to the LC. I believe both SE and Balanced are acting normally. I did the tests with the amp cold. Then I left it turned on for 6 hours with the same results. I then played music through it for two hours and checked again with no change. I cannot detect any channel imbalance at any volume. I have also found that when running the amp in 3x mode it does have more punch and a bit more bass. But when I run it in 1x the soundstage gets wider. I hope this FYI is of some help.


----------



## Shini44

defbear said:


> I have also found that when running the amp in 3x mode it does have more punch and a bit more bass. But when I run it in 1x the soundstage gets wider. I hope this FYI is of some help.


 
 the 3x mode shouldn't be used with CIEMs right?  maybe LCD-2
  
 but not with the CIEMs/IEMs to avoid damaging the BA drivers?


----------



## f0oster

shini44 said:


> the 3x mode shouldn't be used with CIEMs right?  maybe LCD-2
> 
> but not with the CIEMs/IEMs to avoid damaging the BA drivers?


 
 I doubt you will be able to even reasonably listen at tolerable volumes with CIEMS/IEMs at 3x gain, but I could be wrong.


----------



## doctorjazz

defbear said:


> Dang DJ! Looking at the word ZOTL all the time makes me want one. But they are "only" Single Ended. Pa'shaw!
> 
> 
> I'm not going to repeat my impressions, I suspect I've already done it ad nauseum here...just a general statement: Balanced is not automatically better than single ended, tubed is not automatically better than solid state (or vice versa, if you're a SS fan), in the end, it's all in the implementation.
> Enjoy the LC, man!


----------



## Stillhart

zachawry said:


> It's got great macrodynamics/fun/engagement, but I can see how there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of clarity/coherence/refinement.
> 
> Just a guess because I haven't heard the rest of the Cavalli lineup, but I can imagine that throwing a few more thousand dollars at the problem would go really far.


 
  
 I get where you're going with this, but the "problem" isn't the amp, it's in your head.  While I have another Cavalli amp and I can confirm that it is indeed good, I think the Carbon still punches way above its price point.  I can think of one very well-regarded $1400 amp that I demoed at home and I preferred the LC.  Now preference aside, the fact that it's even a possibility with that kind of price delta says something.
  
 I guess all I'm saying is that your desire to hear the even better Cavallis is natural   Calling it a problem with the LC is not.  Unless my sarcasm detector is way off, in which case feel free to ignore me.
  



defbear said:


> I am beginning to think that if the amps absolutely need Burn-in as the instruction manual says, then they should have been burned in by Cavalli audio. It seems there has been a hundred different ways to burn the thing in and nothing is consistent. Like a Martin Guitar, the amps were not finished when received by the user but were in untested kit form for us to burn in haphazardly. *Now we seem to have a lot of different Liquid Carbons *with imbalance problems and what not. I still think my amp had more bottom end before putting it through "The Burning". I asked Alex about burning in gradually or all at 150 hours at once. I got a two word answer. "It's better". Perhaps he's sick of the entire project. When you get down to it, Cavalli, Schiit and everyone else is simply in Retail. Just like Best Buy. Throw Socks. The amps should have been finished in-house.


 
  
 "Seem" is the important bit in the highlighted sentence.  There's always going to be a vocal minority skewing perceptions.  I have seen mentions of happy Carbon owners in other threads that have never posted a single time in any of the 4 LC threads.  We have many hundreds of satisfied customers and a few who got the short end of the stick.  Let's not blow it too far out of proportion...
  


bflat said:


> Will do! LC is currently burning in and will continue while I am out of town next week so it will be next weekend for a comparison. I will most likely use Mojo or Gumby in SE output so that I can have both LC and MJ2 connected simultaneously for easy switching back and forth. I will compare the Ether C and Layla in balanced mode.


 
  
 If I could make a suggestion, please plug the GMB into the LC both SE and Balanced then use the switch on the front to A/B the two.  When I did this, the SE had the mids noticeably sucked out compared to the Balanced (the bass and treble remained perfectly level with each other).  
  
 I say this because if you're testing two amps with the GMB but using different outputs, you're going to be doing one of the amps a disservice.
  


doctorjazz said:


> This is true...5 or 10 complaints seems like a lot on the thread, but isn't that much percentage wise...


 
  
 Agreed.  1-2% is more than they'd like I'm sure but overall pretty small.
  
  
 Side note:  I picked up a used HD800 because it sounds good with the LC.  I was still a little wary because I've had so many bad experiences with that headphone.  But no, this is a rocking combo!  I'm really happy with it and it's probably time to say goodbye to my trusty old HE-560.  /tear


----------



## bflat

stillhart said:


> If I could make a suggestion, please plug the GMB into the LC both SE and Balanced then use the switch on the front to A/B the two.  When I did this, the SE had the mids noticeably sucked out compared to the Balanced (the bass and treble remained perfectly level with each other).
> 
> I say this because if you're testing two amps with the GMB but using different outputs, you're going to be doing one of the amps a disservice.


 
 Absolutely,
  
 I was going to use the 2 sets of RCA outs on the Gumby or 2 mini out with RCA adapters on the Mojo. I would prefer to test both in balanced but don't have an XLR switch box. Since you mentioned the lesser mids on the Gumby SE out, I think I will go with Mojo and having it run on battery will be one less cable to worry about.


----------



## Shini44

my amp will be here on Tuesday, i will try it for few hours, then make it burn in for while, but really can't wait to hear the combo, TT + LC  
  

  
  
 but i pray to god that my LC unit won't have the common issue of the humming/buzzing sound on left or right channel around 10-11 clock volume :/  
  
 (*Note*: can't use my Hugo Directly atm cause all my cables (after market) are XLR, and waiting for an XLR to SE (cable-less) adapter to be sent to me in two weeks or so  )


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> defbear said:
> 
> 
> > Dang DJ! Looking at the word ZOTL all the time makes me want one. But they are "only" Single Ended. Pa'shaw!
> ...


----------



## doctorjazz

I actually use the LC more, have it beside my bed, use Pono as source. ZOTL is in "better system" with PC in another room, but I love to listen in horizontal position...


----------



## jlbrach

a question for those owning the LC:If i was to attach a Chord Hugo or Mojo to the LC can i use the LC in the balanced mode with a balanced cable and my cans or am I unable to do so since the Mojo and Hugo do not have balanced connections to the LC?....am I only able to use the LC in non balanced SE mode if I use the Mojo and or Hugo?....thanks ahead of time!


----------



## Shini44

jlbrach said:


> a question for those owning the LC:If i was to attach a Chord Hugo or Mojo to the LC can i use the LC in the balanced mode with a balanced cable and my cans or am I unable to do so since the Mojo and Hugo do not have balanced connections to the LC?....am I only able to use the LC in non balanced SE mode if I use the Mojo and or Hugo?....thanks ahead of time!


 
  
 the LC is balanced all the way, even if you connect from the RCA/SE from the Hugo's out or even the 3.55 in, it will still be a balanced connection as long as your headphone cable is terminated to XLR 4-pin Male.


----------



## jarnopp

jlbrach said:


> a question for those owning the LC:If i was to attach a Chord Hugo or Mojo to the LC can i use the LC in the balanced mode with a balanced cable and my cans or am I unable to do so since the Mojo and Hugo do not have balanced connections to the LC?....am I only able to use the LC in non balanced SE mode if I use the Mojo and or Hugo?....thanks ahead of time!




The LC has a balanced conversion feature on the.SE inputs (3.5 and RCA) that outputs balanced, so not only can you, but you should use your Hugo/Mojo and balanced cans. My Mojo/LC combo sounds great.


----------



## toobuzz

jlbrach said:


> a question for those owning the LC:If i was to attach a Chord Hugo or Mojo to the LC can i use the LC in the balanced mode with a balanced cable and my cans or am I unable to do so since the Mojo and Hugo do not have balanced connections to the LC?....am I only able to use the LC in non balanced SE mode if I use the Mojo and or Hugo?....thanks ahead of time!




Yes, the LC will operate in balanced output mode (as well as SE output) with the SE input that is fed from the Hugo or Mojo. It will not only work, but you will still have the benefits of running the LC in balanced output mode (less noise and more power).


----------



## jlbrach

great,thanks so much


----------



## jlbrach

one more question for you good folks.....i understand the LC does not come with a power cord,is there any special kind of power cord i need to buy?..can anybody point me in the right direction in order to get the proper cord?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

woodcans said:


> PHA3 as source driving the LC + mdr- z7 is pretty awesome. Musical, top to bottom extension. Doesn't follow the stereotypes as described in general on the forums, for sure...


 
  
 Interesting.  How do you feed the LC from the PHA-3, from the single ended line out, or from the balanced headphone outs?


----------



## Hansotek

jlbrach said:


> one more question for you good folks.....i understand the LC does not come with a power cord,is there any special kind of power cord i need to buy?..can anybody point me in the right direction in order to get the proper cord?




You don't necessarily need any kind of special power cable. I have been A/B-ing a few different cables, however and I have noticed some differences in the sound.

I compared a generic $5 monoprice cable with the $99 Pangea AC9-II. I found the monoprice had a little bit of a grey haze of low-level noise which negatively affected attack, decay and microdynamics. The Pangea fixed this problem, as I hoped. Further comparisons revealed that the soundstage image was somewhat disorganized and inconsistent with the monoprice cable. The Pangea offered a more articulate and well-defined image.

The biggest/best difference I noticed however, was in the overall smoothness. I found the monoprice had a fairly small window of "satisfactory" listening volume between the level of greyed-out microdynamics and slightly-too-harsh transients. I thought the Pangea opened up this window considerably, allowing me to fully enjoy the LC at louder and quieter volumes compared to the monoprice. 

I also noticed better extension at both ends and the bass seems a bit cleaner overall.

These weren't night and day differences, mind you - just 1% here and 2% there. I felt the net effect was noticeable... but people have different priorities, and I can certainly understand the appeal of paying $5 vs. $100. It should also be noted that the Pangea AC9-II is nearly wrist-thick and is probably fairly impractical for many people.

I'm going to be adding the Audioquest NRG-3 later this week for another device, but I certainly plan on trying it with the LC and posting impressions here to add to the knowledge base.


----------



## XenHeadFi

jlbrach said:


> one more question for you good folks.....i understand the LC does not come with a power cord,is there any special kind of power cord i need to buy?..can anybody point me in the right direction in order to get the proper cord?


 
 The Carbon is lighter than you expect. Even the 14AWG Monoprice cable can shift the Carbon around on its own without adding some weight or feet to the Carbon. With larger power cables, you will have to think a little on placement so the Carbon doesn't get pushed or pulled around. I have the Monoprice cable and put the Carbon on some nice rubber feet. Its still easy to move, but has enough friction to not move on its own.
  
 It does not require any special power cable. Just one that has the US standard female plug on one end and whatever plug is standard where you are. The Carbon has its own power supply that is universal from "85-250VAC 50/60Hz"


----------



## mandrake50

I decided to check out this hum situation with my LC. My unit is SN 186. First I don't have any ubber sensitive IEMs. So, obviously this is not important for my use. I just grabbed a couple of sets that I use with my portable gear these days. Tthe Fiio EX1 for SE and for balanced, the RE600.  With no signal input (Foobar paused) using SE out I could hear a little hum barely audible starting at 2 O'clock on the volume control. It got quite noticeable at full volume an included a static like component. I then checked with the balanced output. There was zero detectable noise or hum even with volume maxed out at 3X gain. Interesting! I then decided to try to see if it was the amp or inputs that were responsible. I went back to the SE output, cranked the volume to max and unplugged the two XLR cables from the Pulse Infinity. Guess what, the noise went to zero again. In this case it seemed pretty obvious to me that the LC was not producing the noise.
  
 Being curious, I decided to plug the SE out from the Infinity into the LC to see what influence using that input may have on the noise. No noise at all at max volume from the SE inputs and output, even at 3X gain, zero detectable noise at max volume. OK, so I switch back to the balanced inputs. The noise was gone, again even with everything maxed out.
  
 My conclusion is that, for my unit, with the level of sensitivity of the test IEMs, there is no detectable internally generated noise from the LC. The noise present on the SE output, using balanced in from the Infinity, seems to be the product of a grounding problem between the Infinity and LC. Once I bound the grounds through using the cables between the SE input/output pairs there is no noise.
  
 Obviously this worked in my particular setup with my SN 186 LC. There may be differences in individual units. But, this little experiment may give others an idea on something that they may try if having hum problems.
  
 Two things to mention here. First, even without the SE cables in place, I would not consider the level of hum to be a problem. The audio level of music playing  at the 2 O'clock position on the volume control (where the hum first became audible) would be more than enough to damage my ears, if not kill the IEMs. In short I would never hear it in use.
  
 Second, and a separate subject, but related, I could hear no channel imbalance at any volume setting in either SE or balanced output, nor using either balanced or SE input.
  
 I realize that all of this only applies to my unit, but it would seem to indicate that there is no intrinsic problems with the design of the Liquid Carbon.
  
 Oh and BTW, I really like the way it sounds.


----------



## Peridot

mandrake50 said:


> I decided to check out this hum situation with my LC ...


 
  
 Out of interest did you start with the LC cold, or had it already been powered up for a period of time?


----------



## mandrake50

peridot said:


> Out of interest did you start with the LC cold, or had it already been powered up for a period of time?


 

 It had been running for about three hours, playing music into my He 560.


----------



## wym2

defbear said:


> I have also found that when running the amp in 3x mode it does have more punch and a bit more bass. But when I run it in 1x the soundstage gets wider. I hope this FYI is of some help.


 
 the 3x mode shouldn't be used with CIEMs right?  maybe LCD-2
  
 but not with the CIEMs/IEMs to avoid damaging the BA drivers?


   
 Subjectively, I notice some "congestion" on 3x with complex symphony passages. So I have decided to listen for one week at only 3x and let the LC bake a bit more. 48 hrs and there still seems to me some "thickness" compared to 1x. 
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo →AQ Big Sur trs →LC → HE400i


----------



## mandrake50

peridot said:


> Out of interest did you start with the LC cold, or had it already been powered up for a period of time?


 

 I was curious so I cranked the LC up for about an hour into the HE 560. I measured 100 DB average at the ear position using my old trusty RS SP meter with C weighting. The case got only about 2 degrees F higher than normal, but it was well heated. Results did not change.
  
 I decided to remove the SE cables as a check. Hum was back. I took a wire with alligator clips on each end and clipped it to the shell of the RCA connectors on one channel at each of the Infinity and LC ends. This achieved the same reduction/elimination of the noise as the RCA cables being connected. To me. an obvious differential ground potential problem. My question is why the shell of the XLR connectors, which I thought should be connected to the shield on the cable and (maybe) chassis ground on both ends, would not take care of the problem.
 Ignorance may be bliss, but does not help in understanding problems with electronics.


----------



## XenHeadFi

mandrake50 said:


> My question is why the shell of the XLR connectors, which I thought should be connected to the shield on the cable and (maybe) chassis ground on both ends, would not take care of the problem.


 
  
 Easiest answer is that the shield is connected to only pin 3 and not to the top lug? Or the shield is only connected to one end and not the other?


----------



## mandrake50

Standard OEM XLR cable. I will drag the meter out and check.
  
 Well, the cables that I have use an anodized shell. While the shell of the XLR connectors on equipment are usually at chassis ground potential, the anodization  is an insulator. I think that I have some with a bare shell. Will try those next.


----------



## bflat

I asked about this grounding issue some time back on trying to make a RSA 4 pin to dual XLR adapter and was pointed to this website for reference:
  
 http://pin1problem.com
  
 All that stuff is beyond what I can understand but maybe it will help you guys figure out where the issue may be.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Well, I switched DACs from my HiFi-M8 to my CLAS-db (single ended) and its made the world of difference.  I'm about 40 hours in and my MDR-Z7 has never sounded better. Vocals have improved.  Bass has tightened to allow the sub bass to shine more.  And treble has become more "sparkly".
  
 I can hear the limitations of portable DACs now and its time for something desktop.  I wonder if Alex's fake DAC is a little less fake?


----------



## woodcans

buttuglyjeff said:


> Interesting.  How do you feed the LC from the PHA-3, from the single ended line out, or from the balanced headphone outs?


 
  
 Using the single ended line out.


----------



## Shawnb

Like others have reported I also have a hum on the SE output. Connected my Shure 535's and below 11 o'clock It's a very faint hum but as you go past 12 o'clock it starts getting louder.
 The balanced side is dead silent, so it's just the SE that has the hum.
  
 Since this is my first piece of expensive gear is this normal? Should this hum be something I should be sending the unit back for?
  
 I also hve an issue with the power button, It seems loose and and when pressed seems to give en extra click before it turns off or on. Not sure if that's something i should be returning over as well.
  
 Otherwise it's a great amp so far.


----------



## bflat

shawnb said:


> Like others have reported I also have a hum on the SE output. Connected my Shure 535's and below 11 o'clock It's a very faint hum but as you go past 12 o'clock it starts getting louder.
> The balanced side is dead silent, so it's just the SE that has the hum.
> 
> Since this is my first piece of expensive gear is this normal? Should this hum be something I should be sending the unit back for?
> ...


 

 Both are normal - SE noise and the relay during power up. Your LC is fine. You may even hear some channel imbalance on your IEMs at low volume out the SE. All normal. Stick to balanced and enjoy!


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> Well, I switched DACs from my HiFi-M8 to my CLAS-db (single ended) and its made the world of difference.  I'm about 40 hours in and my MDR-Z7 has never sounded better. Vocals have improved.  Bass has tightened to allow the sub bass to shine more.  And treble has become more "sparkly".
> 
> I can hear the limitations of portable DACs now and its time for something desktop.  I wonder if Alex's fake DAC is a little less fake?


 
  
 Using some critical thinking here:  there was nothing about a Cavalli DAC at CES so I doubt we'll hear anything until at least Canjam Socal (assuming there's anything to hear).  At the very earliest you're looking at two months down the road just for an announcement that something might be coming in a few months from that.  That's my best-case scenario prediction.
  
 Given that potential timing, seems like you may not want to wait...?


----------



## Youth

stillhart said:


> Using some critical thinking here:  there was nothing about a Cavalli DAC at CES so I doubt we'll hear anything until at least Canjam Socal (assuming there's anything to hear).  At the very earliest you're looking at two months down the road just for an announcement that something might be coming in a few months from that.  That's my best-case scenario prediction.
> 
> Given that potential timing, seems like you may not want to wait...?


 
  
 He could always buy a DAC-19 in the meantime


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Using some critical thinking here:  there was nothing about a Cavalli DAC at CES so I doubt we'll hear anything until at least Canjam Socal (assuming there's anything to hear).  At the very earliest you're looking at two months down the road just for an announcement that something might be coming in a few months from that.  That's my best-case scenario prediction.
> 
> Given that potential timing, seems like you may not want to wait...?


 
  
 Agreed.  The LC took longer then planned.  Which will delay the launch of the new portable.  And there's still the high end stuff to continue with.  I bet Alex wants to, just might be too busy now to really develop the idea.  Though @warrenpchi did get a taste a a very rough prototype, correct?


----------



## nanoevil

cardiiiii said:


> What volume levels are you using on the Hugo & LC and PC/Mac?


 
 Haven't really used a PC with the Hugo and LC yet as I transferred all my DSD files into my 200gb micro SD card and I'm just using my DX90 as source. 
  
 I'll give it a shot this week.


----------



## Shini44

Gentlemen!! The High on Demand Small Box is Here!! 
  
  

  

  

  

  

  
  
  
 giving it a fast run, then will leave it to burn in for sometimes, then another session, and will it continue the burn in when i go to sleep 
  
 but i got to say its waaaaay lighter what i thought!!!


----------



## cskippy

Congrats on the Carbon!  Yep, the weight really surprised me too.  It's a lightweight but watch out for its punch.


----------



## doctorjazz

As many have said, the power cable (Pangea) I got is heavier than the LC...


----------



## mscott58

Congrats!
  
 Regarding the weight, two things will help. One, put some rubber feet on it (or put a rubber mat under it like I did) as this will keep it from sliding around too much. Two, put some weight on top of it as that will also help keep it in place. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## jarnopp

mscott58 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Regarding the weight, two things will help. One, put some rubber feet on it (or put a rubber mat under it like I did) as this will keep it from sliding around too much. Two, put some weight on top of it as that will also help keep it in place.
> 
> Cheers




The nice thing about feet, especially the larger 1/2" "bumpers" I used, is that you get some airflow underneath. The board is double-sided - one for each channel, so that should help. Although, I haven't noticed the LC getting abnormally hot, even after 150 hours continuous playing. Certainly not as hot as the Mojo gets. Speaking of 150 hours...soon will be time for impressions!


----------



## doctorjazz

I have left it on all the time, don't note it getting hot. (no feet, just rests on a clock radio next to my bed).


----------



## rocketron

Number 328 has landed.


----------



## adobotj

rocketron said:


> Number 328 has landed.




Congratulations! 

Mine just ended the 150th hour burn in. Now, time for some serious listening!


----------



## doctorjazz

No smiling, now...


----------



## Stillhart

adobotj said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> Mine just ended the 150th hour burn in. Now, time for some serious listening!


 
  
 How were you listening before?


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> How were you listening before?


 

 Hey!  I resemble that!


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> Hey!  I resemble that!


 
  
 Nyuk nyuk nyuk!


----------



## Cardiiiii

So has everyone got their LCs?


----------



## woodcans

I have mine and I must say, the LC plus the Gumby is _ridiculously_  good.


----------



## aamefford

Well, the good news is that I like the Carbon so much I bought a Crimson, and have kept the Carbon.  The bad news, is that it will likely cost me a Bimby or a Mojo or something to make a downstairs rig with the Carbon.....


----------



## mscott58

aamefford said:


> Well, the good news is that I like the Carbon so much I bought a Crimson, and have kept the Carbon.  The bad news, is that it will likely cost me a Bimby or a Mojo or something to make a downstairs rig with the Carbon.....


 
 Congrats! If you go with the Mojo you'll also have a good portable option. Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> Well, the good news is that I like the Carbon so much I bought a Crimson, and have kept the Carbon.  The bad news, is that it will likely cost me a Bimby or a Mojo or something to make a downstairs rig with the Carbon.....


 
  
 It is a slippery-ass slope!  Let me know which you get and what you think.  I'll probably need a nice DAC to pair with the LC (right now it's using the passthrough from the Crimson) at some point.  Having a nice portable option is certainly appealing but going back to D-S... I dunno...


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> It is a slippery-ass slope!  Let me know which you get and what you think.  I'll probably need a nice DAC to pair with the LC (right now it's using the passthrough from the Crimson) at some point.  Having a nice portable option is certainly appealing but going back to D-S... I dunno...






I hear you Dan, but Rob Watt's FPGA approach to DAC's is a wee bit different from the DS stuff you typically regurgitate over (still love your DS t-shirt though)


----------



## Hansotek

aamefford said:


> Well, the good news is that I like the Carbon so much I bought a Crimson, and have kept the Carbon.  The bad news, is that it will likely cost me a Bimby or a Mojo or something to make a downstairs rig with the Carbon.....



I've been enjoying it with the Bimby quite a bit. It's a pretty impressive device. It definitely exceeded my expectations. Wouldn't mind trying the Mojo, given how much people have been buzzing about it. That would be a fun shootout.


----------



## adobotj

stillhart said:


> How were you listening before?




Before the burn in? So far it was perfect. No hiss, no hum, no channel imbalance, pitch black background. Soundstage was decent and tonality was very real like the actual instruments themselves. It's all like what you said except for the soundstage. BUT... after the burn in it opened up significantly and so far, I'm enjoying every moment of it! 

Soundstage now is wider than the first time and everything seems to come alive. This is one heck of an amp! I'm so glad I purchased it and very happy with cavalli house sound. Thanks Dan for all the guidance and help you provided not only for me but I bet, for a lot of people here in this thread. 

Now, on to some more critical listening! 

Cheers!


----------



## Shini44

mine is still burning in   but even out from the box it sounded very nice    
  
 will finish its 150 hours on Tuesday.


----------



## 3rddimension

musiclvr said:


> Wow, I guess the Alpha Primes need a lot more juice than the Alpha Dogs (AD's). Are your Primes balanced or single ended? My AD's are balanced and I listen between 10-12 o'clock at 1x gain with the LC. I do have to be careful with the LC as it does not impart any distortion which makes me want to listen a little louder than I would normally to just get immersed in audio nirvana!


 

 I run them balanced.


----------



## defbear

Here is another impression. If I had to go through the whole process of purchasing the LC again, the waiting, the gritching , the emotional up and down. (That's right! Everyone's emotions are on full display here on Head-fi. Everyone who just got their amp, breath a big sigh of relief) I would do it again in a heartbeat. What fun! What an amp! I do not think he has gotten enough of these -->Thank you Dr. Alex for all your hard work providing us these wonderful Liquid Carbon headphone amplifiers. Mine will provide me with decades of listening pleasure both at home and away. Thank you.


----------



## Serenitty

defbear said:


> Here is another impression. If I had to go through the whole process of purchasing the LC again, the waiting, the gritching , the emotional up and down. (That's right! Everyone's emotions are on full display here on Head-fi. Everyone who just got their amp, breath a big sigh of relief) I would do it again in a heartbeat. What fun! What an amp! I do not think he has gotten enough of these -->Thank you Dr. Alex for all your hard work providing us these wonderful Liquid Carbon headphone amplifiers. Mine will provide me with decades of listening pleasure both at home and away. Thank you.


 

 +1 on this, though my ups and downs were just the wait since April.  My Ak120ii>LC>Ether C combo is sublime...  And neither the amp or the headphones are by definition broken in yet...
  
 Now I just need to find more music to listen to and resist the temptation of the Bifrost Multibit...  The Ak120ii is good enough, the Ak120ii is good enough, OOMMMMM....


----------



## jlbrach

what is the best way to burn the LC in ......can you just leave it on o do you have to be playing music through it?


----------



## doctorjazz

serenitty said:


> defbear said:
> 
> 
> > Here is another impression. If I had to go through the whole process of purchasing the LC again, the waiting, the gritching , the emotional up and down. (That's right! Everyone's emotions are on full display here on Head-fi. Everyone who just got their amp, breath a big sigh of relief) I would do it again in a heartbeat. What fun! What an amp! I do not think he has gotten enough of these -->Thank you Dr. Alex for all your hard work providing us these wonderful Liquid Carbon headphone amplifiers. Mine will provide me with decades of listening pleasure both at home and away. Thank you.
> ...




By definition, Audiophilia Nervosa means, "it's NEVER good enough!


----------



## musiclvr

3rddimension said:


> I run them balanced.



Nice rig and a gorgeous cable on those Alpha Primes!


----------



## faran

They sure are. Which cables are they?


----------



## MattTCG

faran said:


> They sure are. Which cables are they?


 
  
 Look like Forza to me.


----------



## x RELIC x

His signature does say "Forza Noir Hybrid 4pin XLR"..........


----------



## mccao

3rddimension said:


> I run them balanced.


 
 I also run my Alpha Primes fully balanced, but I only need 1x gain with volume from 11-1 o'clock. This might be completely wrong and stupid of me but on your picture your Input Selector is set to Red which means you're running SE input according to the manual. Could that be the reason for you having to use the LC on 3x gain for Alpha Primes while I don't?


----------



## Stillhart

jlbrach said:


> what is the best way to burn the LC in ......can you just leave it on o do you have to be playing music through it?


 
  
 This is detailed in the manual.


----------



## coastal1

mccao said:


> I also run my Alpha Primes fully balanced, but I only need 1x gain with volume from 11-1 o'clock. This might be completely wrong and stupid of me but on your picture your Input Selector is set to Red which means you're running SE input according to the manual. Could that be the reason for you having to use the LC on 3x gain for Alpha Primes while I don't?


 
  

  
 The silver device on the right looks like an iFi Micro (or one of iFi's similar sized products).  If that's being used as the DAC, pretty sure SE input is the only option with the Micro.


----------



## coastal1

jlbrach said:


> what is the best way to burn the LC in ......can you just leave it on o do you have to be playing music through it?


 
  


stillhart said:


> This is detailed in the manual.


 
  
 Yes, the manual states 150 hours of continuous music for burn in.  I think everyone here would agree that if you're going to do the 150 hour continuous burn in, play music.  
  
 However, otherwise you'll get a variety of opinions about burn in.  Some will say burn in doesn't help.  Some will say it doesn't have to be continuous.  Perhaps the biggest differences of opinion is that the manual states "*we recommend that you disconnect your headphones* when not listening during this break-in period," whereas others say its better to have headphones connected the whole time and the Cavalli recommendation is in the manual because theres a very slight risk that something could go haywire during burnin and you wouldnt hear it and your headphones could get damaged..


----------



## cskippy

Headphones connected or not will make no difference to the amp burning in.  It still receives the same sound that puts a smile on your face when you are listening!


----------



## adobotj

coastal1 said:


> Yes, the manual states 150 hours of continuous music for burn in.  I think everyone here would agree that if you're going to do the 150 hour continuous burn in, play music.
> 
> However, otherwise you'll get a variety of opinions about burn in.  Some will say burn in doesn't help.  Some will say it doesn't have to be continuous.  Perhaps the biggest differences of opinion is that the manual states "*we recommend that you disconnect your headphones* when not listening during this break-in period," whereas others say its better to have headphones connected the whole time and the Cavalli recommendation is in the manual because theres a very slight risk that something could go haywire during burnin and you wouldnt hear it and your headphones could get damaged..


 
  
 What i did was:
  
 1. Connect Ipod to se input of LC.
 2. Play music (whole album on loop).
 3. Turn on LC (on no gain and at 11 o'clock volume position).
 4. Placed a fan directed to it to prevent overheating.
 5. Check on it from time to time until 150th hour.
  
 Every time i get home, I listen to it using my balanced cables and when I'm done i just disconnect it and resume burn in.


----------



## aamefford

I did similar. MacBook Air, full iTunes playlist on repeat, high gain 12:00, no fan, no headphones. Worked fine. Listen when you want during the process.


----------



## jarnopp

aamefford said:


> I did similar. MacBook Air, full iTunes playlist on repeat, high gain 12:00, no fan, no headphones. Worked fine. Listen when you want during the process.




I'm sure it sounds great, but still wondering about this post, which indicates with balanced headphones is better:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/3990#post_12084148


----------



## 3rddimension

mccao said:


> I also run my Alpha Primes fully balanced, but I only need 1x gain with volume from 11-1 o'clock. This might be completely wrong and stupid of me but on your picture your Input Selector is set to Red which means you're running SE input according to the manual. Could that be the reason for you having to use the LC on 3x gain for Alpha Primes while I don't?


 

 No I don't think so. Many have compared SE vs XLR inputs before and haven't noticed any significant differences on the output. Also as coastal1 said, i am using ifi Micro idsd as a DAC, so the SE input is my only option.
  
  


musiclvr said:


> Nice rig and a gorgeous cable on those Alpha Primes!


 

 Thanks buddy.


----------



## swspiers

3rddimension said:


> mccao said:
> 
> 
> > I also run my Alpha Primes fully balanced, but I only need 1x gain with volume from 11-1 o'clock. This might be completely wrong and stupid of me but on your picture your Input Selector is set to Red which means you're running SE input according to the manual. Could that be the reason for you having to use the LC on 3x gain for Alpha Primes while I don't?
> ...




I myself have huge difference between SE/XLR with my Benchmark, I'm guessing a 6dB difference. In SE it's 2 volts, XLR 4 volts output. I think it depends on the DAC.


----------



## mandrake50

bflat said:


> I asked about this grounding issue some time back on trying to make a RSA 4 pin to dual XLR adapter and was pointed to this website for reference:
> 
> http://pin1problem.com
> 
> All that stuff is beyond what I can understand but maybe it will help you guys figure out where the issue may be.


 

 This would explain a lot. If either the DAC end, or the LC end has a jack that does not tie pin 1 to chassis ground, then providing that ground by using the RCA SE connections would likely be a solution to hum and noise in many situations. Perhaps Alex could tell us how the jack on the LC is wired ??


----------



## 3rddimension

swspiers said:


> I myself have huge difference between SE/XLR with my Benchmark, I'm guessing a 6dB difference. In SE it's 2 volts, XLR 4 volts output. I think it depends on the DAC.


 

 Interesting...Thanks for the input.


----------



## m usicguy

I have 5 days on my LC with new blanced headphone cable.  New Balanced innerconnects,  Plus new USB gustard u12 converter.  And New AES balanced digital cable.  Pretty much a new set up.  So far, after 5 days ,this are starting to open back up and sound amazing.  Ive never heard this much depth in a headphone set up.  Before sound was very 2D,   Very much 3D now.
  
 From this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  to this  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 musicguy


----------



## zachawry

I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound. 
  
 Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing.


----------



## coastal1

zachawry said:


> I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound.
> 
> Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing.







coastal1 said:


> For headphones like the HD650 that aren't (relatively) hard to drive, should using 1x gain with higher volume vs. 3x gain with lower volume make a difference?  I haven't experimented much, but seem to slightly prefer 3x gain with low volume seems as it seems to provide more punch, but could all be in my mind.




I posted about this previously w/ my HD650. I know there are some strong schools of thought about the 'right way' to use gain on certain amps, but wasn't sure if there was a difference either way for this particular amp as I hadn't read anything about it or experimented much. 

I've since experimented more and agree with your comments, though for me the differences for me are not very subtle. 3X/low volume gives me much more punch, bass, and attack. 1x/higher volume gives me more soundstage and weightlessness.

What I prefer largely depends on what I'm listening to and to a lesser degree my mood. But there is quite a noticeable difference to me


----------



## sling5s

HEADFONIA TIPS: KEEP YOUR AMPS AT LOW GAIN
 http://www.headfonia.com/headfonia-tips-keep-your-amps-at-low-gain/
 Yes, higher gain makes the amp sound punchier and more aggressive. 
 Low gain more smoother and clean.


----------



## adobotj

zachawry said:


> I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound.
> 
> Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing.







coastal1 said:


> I posted about this previously w/ my HD650. I know there are some strong schools of thought about the 'right way' to use gain on certain amps, but wasn't sure if there was a difference either way for this particular amp as I hadn't read anything about it or experimented much.
> 
> I've since experimented more and agree with your comments, though for me the differences for me are not very subtle. 3X/low volume gives me much more punch, bass, and attack. 1x/higher volume gives me more soundstage and weightlessness.
> 
> What I prefer largely depends on what I'm listening to and to a lesser degree my mood. But there is quite a noticeable difference to me




I'm not sure if this is accurate but, I think the reason why the 1x gain has more 'space' or 'soundstage' or 'weightlessness' is because the 1x gain provides a more black-er background creating more space between instruments and wider soundstage. 

I also share similar experience with you guys as I tried experimenting before with my rsa intruder using very sensitive iems. On high gain there's more punch, bass and attack. But on low gain it has more space between instruments and opened up the soundstage a bit.


----------



## mandrake50

My guess is that if people carefully volume matched low and high gain (to .1 db or less) they would notice little to no difference  between 1X and 3X gain settings. It is really not easy, if at all possible to set levels by ear to the point that volume level will not make more difference in perceived sound than anything that the electronics in the amp does differently.
  
 Something curious that I noticed when I was checking for noise. Even though the balanced out of the Infinity is rated at over twice the voltage (at zero DB) as the line outs, the resulting sound level was greater using the line inputs on the LC. Certainly not what I expected.
  
 I really must take out some of my other DACs that have both outputs and see what the results are for the same test with them.


----------



## coastal1

mandrake50 said:


> My guess is that if people carefully volume matched low and high gain (to .1 db or less) they would notice little to no difference  between 1X and 3X gain settings. It is really not easy, if at all possible to set levels by ear to the point that volume level will not make more difference in perceived sound than anything that the electronics in the amp does differently.
> 
> Something curious that I noticed when I was checking for noise. Even though the balanced out of the Infinity is rated at over twice the voltage (at zero DB) as the line outs, the resulting sound level was greater using the line inputs on the LC. Certainly not what I expected.
> 
> I really must take out some of my other DACs that have both outputs and see what the results are for the same test with them.


 
  
 Completely agree that it's very difficult/impossible to volume match by ear.  But for me w/ the HD650 the bass is noticeably lower in the mix at 1X even if I overcompensate on volume.  The bass presence is much easier to hear by ear.


----------



## jarnopp

adobotj said:


> I'm not sure if this is accurate but, I think the reason why the 1x gain has more 'space' or 'soundstage' or 'weightlessness' is because the 1x gain provides a more black-er background creating more space between instruments and wider soundstage.
> 
> I also share similar experience with you guys as I tried experimenting before with my rsa intruder using very sensitive iems. On high gain there's more punch, bass and attack. But on low gain it has more space between instruments and opened up the soundstage a bit.




Probably would need Alex to weigh in definitively, as the designer, but I still wonder what is active in 1x mode? The phase splitter, the vol pot, but other than than, there could be a wire between the inputs and the volume on 1x, removing the circuit and leaving essentially only the source.


----------



## coastal1

adobotj said:


> I'm not sure if this is accurate but, I think the reason why the 1x gain has more 'space' or 'soundstage' or 'weightlessness' is because the 1x gain provides a more black-er background creating more space between instruments and wider soundstage.
> 
> I also share similar experience with you guys as I tried experimenting before with my rsa intruder using very sensitive iems. On high gain there's more punch, bass and attack. But on low gain it has more space between instruments and opened up the soundstage a bit.


 
  
 I don't know, I guess 'black background' means different things to different people, but for me it's complete silence/no hiss, most importantly when there is music playing but it's a silent or very quiet part in the music.
  
 With the LC/HD650, I still have a black background at 3x.  Could obviously be different for iems or even closed headphones
  
 .


----------



## XenHeadFi

mandrake50 said:


> My guess is that if people carefully volume matched low and high gain (to .1 db or less) they would notice little to no difference  between 1X and 3X gain settings. It is really not easy, if at all possible to set levels by ear to the point that volume level will not make more difference in perceived sound than anything that the electronics in the amp does differently.


 
  
 I originally thought that 3x gain sounded vastly different than 1x until I took my DMM and measured output voltage. I found knob positions where 1x matched 3x for output, and I heard no difference. Now, instead of listening at ~8:45 on 3x, I listen at ~10:45 on 1x. I still have plenty of headroom as 1:00 is uncomfortably loud at 1x.


----------



## wym2

zachawry said:


> I had been using my LC on 3X, even with the easy-to-drive Ethers. 3X seems to provide a little bit more "punch" or a more aggressive sound.
> 
> Lately, though, I've been enjoying the 1X. It's a minor difference at most, but I think 1X has a little bit more "space" to it. It's a more subtle sound. Again, very small differences that could be all in my head, but that's what I think I'm hearing.


 
  
 I spent 3+ weeks at 1x and now baking the LC at 3x (over 100 + hrs) only listening thru HE400i - very easy to drive. Definite difference. I feel there have been positive changes running the LC at 3x: So far a more “solid” soundstage, maybe a slight clearing up/separation of massed instruments in large symphonies. 
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo →AQ Big Sur trs →LC


----------



## Peridot

jarnopp said:


> Probably would need Alex to weigh in definitively, as the designer, but I still wonder what is active in 1x mode? The phase splitter, the vol pot, but other than than, there could be a wire between the inputs and the volume on 1x, removing the circuit and leaving essentially only the source.


 
  
 Everything is active in each mode. The only difference is the gain. In 1x the amp is acting as a unity (voltage) gain device, but the full power and dynamic performance of the amplifier circuit is available. 
  
 If the gain switch were acting as a bypass the effects would be very different and much more noticeable.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

With my Z7, I found myself listening at higher volume on high gain.  That would definitely alter one's opinion...


----------



## jarnopp

peridot said:


> Everything is active in each mode. The only difference is the gain. In 1x the amp is acting as a unity (voltage) gain device, but the full power and dynamic performance of the amplifier circuit is available.
> 
> If the gain switch were acting as a bypass the effects would be very different and much more noticeable.




Thanks. Not being an EE, can you give an example of how this would impact the source at 1x? My dac signal comes in, say at 2v RMS, and some dynamic passage of music with my headphone combo needs more, say 3v, to sound right. Does 1x do anything to help in that case?


----------



## bflat

Well, my listening impressions will be delayed for a couple weeks. The volume pot on my LC has stopped working and I am stuck at a fixed volume level on both SE and Balanced. Will need repair. In my brief listening so far, it's very much what I remember from my first listening session at the SF Meet. Neutral sound signature with very clean and dynamic presentation.


----------



## sahmen

My LC arrived at a point when I was about to leave town for about 3 weeks away, so I have not had time to really test-drive it, talk less of performing the recommended 150-hour burn-in ritual.  However, out of the box, and paired with an Emotiva DC-1 DAC, I tried my Sennheiser HD700 on it and WOW!, what a revelation!  I have never heard this much-maligned, and to my mind, highly "misunderstood" pair of cans, sound this gracious, beautiful and non-fatiguing.  In short, the LC has cured my "love-hate" relationship with the HD700 within minutes of their encounter, although I am also persuaded that it is much, much, more than a mere "HD700 whisperer."
  
 By the way, I also tested it briefly in the same chain with my Hifiman He-500, and while the combination sounded decently good, I did not experience the same "WOW"! sentiment as I did with the HD-700, but that might simply be because the He-500 already sounds great in all my other rigs and with almost every genre of music  I have thrown at it, so I wasn't expecting any surprises...
  
 There is more to come, of course (including the 150-hour burn in ritual and its aftermath), but I thought I should just chronicle this story of the first encounter between the LC and the HD700, a match made in musical nirvana, if there were ever such a place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Peridot

jarnopp said:


> Thanks. Not being an EE, can you give an example of how this would impact the source at 1x? My dac signal comes in, say at 2v RMS, and some dynamic passage of music with my headphone combo needs more, say 3v, to sound right. Does 1x do anything to help in that case?


 
  
 I am no expert on analogue circuit design but my understanding is that the DAC's high impedance output would prevent it providing the dynamic current change to drive your headphones.
  
 The unity gain amplifier provides the same voltage as the DAC, but has a low impedance output and a power supply that is capable of delivering rapid changes in power to provide the dynamic performance that makes our headphones sound sweet.
  
 If that's not right I hope someone will correct me. It's a number of decades since I briefly studied analogue electronics.


----------



## Peridot

bflat said:


> Well, my listening impressions will be delayed for a couple weeks. The volume pot on my LC has stopped working and I am stuck at a fixed volume level on both SE and Balanced. Will need repair. In my brief listening so far, it's very much what I remember from my first listening session at the SF Meet. Neutral sound signature with very clean and dynamic presentation.


 
  
 The volume pot appears to be a weak point ... I think it's been implicated in the channel imbalance problems that some other users have had. 
  
 I hope you get the repair sorted out quickly.


----------



## BDM-Fi

peridot said:


> The volume pot appears to be a weak point ... I think it's been implicated in the channel imbalance problems that some other users have had.
> 
> I hope you get the repair sorted out quickly.


 

 Does anyone notice a change in resistance when you turn the pot (i.e. I noticed this on mine after 11 'o clock)?


----------



## bflat

peridot said:


> The volume pot appears to be a weak point ... I think it's been implicated in the channel imbalance problems that some other users have had.
> 
> I hope you get the repair sorted out quickly.


 

 Thanks! As expected, I got an immediate response from Cavalli Audio and will get this fixed shortly.


----------



## jlbrach

my LC arrived and has to go back for repairs.......seems to be the channel balance issue.......rather disappointing....hopefully it will be taken care


----------



## jarnopp

peridot said:


> I am no expert on analogue circuit design but my understanding is that the DAC's high impedance output would prevent it providing the dynamic current change to drive your headphones.
> 
> The unity gain amplifier provides the same voltage as the DAC, but has a low impedance output and a power supply that is capable of delivering rapid changes in power to provide the dynamic performance that makes our headphones sound sweet.
> 
> If that's not right I hope someone will correct me. It's a number of decades since I briefly studied analogue electronics.




That is one general benefit, I understand. In my specific case, the Mojo has a 0.075 ohm output impedance. Would like to get more info so as to more fully understand what the amp is doing and how best to pair it. Of course, it also just sounds great!


----------



## Peridot

bdm-fi said:


> Does anyone notice a change in resistance when you turn the pot ...


 
  
 Well that is what it's for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Sorry, just trying to be smart, I knew you meant physical resistance. Don't notice anything like this on mine. Where it does happen it's normally just a slight misalignment of the control knob. I suspect that the problem amps have a more fundamental quality problem within the pot.


----------



## Peridot

jarnopp said:


> That is one general benefit, I understand. In my specific case, the Mojo has a 0.075 ohm output impedance. Would like to get more info so as to more fully understand what the amp is doing and how best to pair it. Of course, it also just sounds great!


 
  
 Ah yes ... from the very little I've read I understand that the Mojo has a unique output taken directly from the FPGA chip that does all the magic. I'm really surprised that it can do this without an analogue amplifier / buffer stage, but my knowledge in this area is so out of date as to be practically non-existent.


----------



## mscott58

> Originally Posted by *BDM-Fi*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 'effin brilliant! Almost spit out my TexMex here at DFW when I read this. Well played


----------



## Mr Rick

peridot said:


> Well that is what it's for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a couple of amps where heat is a contributing factor. But in those cases, the pot becomes easier to turn as the amp warms up.


----------



## bflat

jarnopp said:


> That is one general benefit, I understand. In my specific case, the Mojo has a 0.075 ohm output impedance. Would like to get more info so as to more fully understand what the amp is doing and how best to pair it. Of course, it also just sounds great!


 

 Your DAC output impedance and current drive have little bearing on the amp's output since the LC and all amps have input impedances in the 10K+ ohm range. Whatever differences you are hearing between 1X and 3X output on LC is 100% due to the LC itself.
  
 As for Mojo, it's headphone out and line out use the same circuit straight from the FPGA so it is basically a line out with a voltage control for volume levels.


----------



## Stillhart

peridot said:


> Well that is what it's for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha, I actually had no idea that he meant physical resistance so I was kind of confused that it only started changing at 11:00.  lol


----------



## sling5s

Anyone still have their Gustard H10 and their LC?
 Would love some comparisons. I no longer have the H10 to compare but there seems to be some who have listened to both and found the H10 to have better mids and soundstage and LC too thin and bright.


----------



## johangrb

I have both the H10 and LC. My H10 is on hold while waiting for replacement V5's from Burson so I'll be able to compare later this month. So far my LC with HD800 balanced sounds fantastic but I think I'll keep the H10 with my He-560s. (I don't find the LC thin or bright - I run a Gustard X12/U12 combo full balanced).
  
 To be continued...


----------



## sling5s

johangrb said:


> I have both the H10 and LC. My H10 is on hold while waiting for replacement V5's from Burson so I'll be able to compare later this month. So far my LC with HD800 balanced sounds fantastic but I think I'll keep the H10 with my He-560s. (I don't find the LC thin or bright - I run a Gustard X12/U12 combo full balanced).
> 
> To be continued...


 

 Thanks for your impressions.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thin and bright? Not how I hear the LC. (never heard the Gustard)


----------



## sling5s

johangrb said:


> I have both the H10 and LC. My H10 is on hold while waiting for replacement V5's from Burson so I'll be able to compare later this month. So far my LC with HD800 balanced sounds fantastic but I think I'll keep the H10 with my He-560s. (I don't find the LC thin or bright - I run a Gustard X12/U12 combo full balanced).
> 
> To be continued...


 

 How did your HD800 sound with HD10 (without Burson) compared to LC?


----------



## pippen99

doctorjazz said:


> Thin and bright? Not how I hear the LC. (never heard the Gustard)


 
 I had the H10 and the LC.  I did not have the Bursons but the 897/823 combo.  The LC surpassed the H10 in every aspect of SQ.  I do not find the LC to be thin and bright at all.  The H10 is gone since the LC made it irrelevant for me.


----------



## sling5s

Here's the post/quote from Gustard H10 thread:
  


> To me the Burson H10 edges out the LC.  One local listener agrees with me, one says the LC is total crap (strongly hates thin vocals) and a third has the LC edging out the H10 because it seems he like more treble energy and presence.


----------



## sunneebear

Thats my quote. I did not say thin and bright. The Burson H10 has a richer vocal which that listener likes.


----------



## sling5s

sunneebear said:


> Thats my quote. I did not say thin and bright. The Burson H10 has a richer vocal which that listener likes.


 

 You did not say it...but the guy you quoted as saying "totally crap" I thought was quote worthy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But I did surmise by the other third guy you quoted and some other posts from other threads about the LC being bright/trebly (compared to H10).


----------



## sunneebear

sling5s said:


> You did not say it...but the guy you quoted as saying "totally crap" I thought was quote worthy.
> But I did surmise by the other third guy you quoted and some other posts from other threads about the LC being bright/trebly (compared to H10).



Yes that one guy is quite opinionated about his views. Most of his amps are warm nd tubes.


----------



## sling5s

sunneebear said:


> Yes that one guy is quite opinionated about his views. Most of his amps are warm nd tubes.


 
 It's funny because most of the early prototype reviews/impressions described the LC as tube like, euphonic and warm with great mids. It's why I purchased it.
 I'm just wondering if the prototype was more warm and tube like than the final release.


----------



## sunneebear

sling5s said:


> It's funny because most of the early prototype reviews/impressions described the LC as tube like, euphonic and warm with great mids. It's why I purchased it.
> I'm just wondering if the prototype was more warm and tube like than the final release.



There was only 150hrs on that LC, does it need more. 100 of those hours I put on myself and only heard very slight change in the warmth.


----------



## sling5s

sunneebear said:


> There was only 150hrs on that LC, does it need more. 100 of those hours I put on myself and only heard very slight change in the warmth.


 

 Some have reported it got brighter and some warmer. Kind of funny our ears.


----------



## sunneebear

sling5s said:


> Some have reported it got brighter and some warmer. Kind of funny our ears.



I had amps before with big caps that needed hundreds of hours and in that time frame it had sound changes in both direction.


----------



## Stillhart

sling5s said:


> It's funny because most of the early prototype reviews/impressions described the LC as tube like, euphonic and warm with great mids. It's why I purchased it.
> I'm just wondering if the prototype was more warm and tube like than the final release.


 
  
 I said it was transparent with some tube-like qualities.  I think calling it "tube like, euphonic and warm with great mids" kind of misrepresents the sound since I wouldn't call it a warm amp.  I did say it was warmer than my NFB-28's amp, but that one is on the bright side.
  
 The pre-production unit is not more warm and tube-like than the final one.  If you want something that's tube-like, euphonic and warm with great mids, just get a tube amp.


----------



## sling5s

stillhart said:


> I said it was transparent with some tube-like qualities.  I think calling it "tube like, euphonic and warm with great mids" kind of misrepresents the sound since I wouldn't call it a warm amp.  I did say it was warmer than my NFB-28's amp, but that one is on the bright side.
> 
> The pre-production unit is not more warm and tube-like than the final one.  If you want something that's tube-like, euphonic and warm with great mids, just get a tube amp.


 

 Hard to get the transparency though. Unless you get high in the bucks. 
 Not quoting you BTW. Summarizing a lot of different impressions and reviews. I did leave out transparent, layered and dynamic as other qualities.


----------



## Mr Rick

Small but mighty, my LC rises to the top of the pile.


----------



## sunneebear

That's because you've got a pile of schitt.


----------



## sunneebear

mr rick said:


> Small but mighty, my LC rises to the top of the pile.


 
 That receiver though, very nice.  My dad worked for SAE in the late 70"s.


----------



## Mr Rick

sunneebear said:


> That receiver though, very nice.  My dad worked for SAE in the late 70"s.


 
  
 I worked there in the early 70's.


----------



## sunneebear

Small world Mr. Rick.


----------



## Thenewguy007

So, anyone here with the Carbon & a TOTL endgame desktop amp, how would you compare the soundstage width & air between them?


----------



## Hansotek

thenewguy007 said:


> So, anyone here with the Carbon & a TOTL endgame desktop amp, how would you compare the soundstage width & air between them?



The Master-9's soundstage is a bit bigger and has better definition on the individual instruments. I find the LC more musical and engaging though, more often than not. Overall, the two are pretty close in overall SQ.


----------



## johangrb

hansotek said:


> The Master-9's soundstage is a bit bigger and has better definition on the individual instruments. I find the LC more musical and engaging though, more often than not. Overall, the two are pretty close in overall SQ.


 
 I would tend to agree with this. I recently sold my GSX MkII and I find the LC more musical. (The GSX is ultra neutral and has other stellar qualities but I don't think it's worth spending 4x -5x the LC price)


----------



## WCDchee

peridot said:


> Ah yes ... from the very little I've read I understand that the Mojo has a unique output taken directly from the FPGA chip that does all the magic. I'm really surprised that it can do this without an analogue amplifier / buffer stage, but my knowledge in this area is so out of date as to be practically non-existent.




Basically, all DACs have an analog output stage, be it for filtering, which most dacs need, or what not, but basically to prepare the signal for the line out. In most cases, this analog output stage needs to do some filtering, and thus, limits the design of this analog stage to having a Low power output in two senses. The line voltage might not be Low at all, with 1.5-2v, way more than needed for most IEMs and headphones. With Low impedance headphones, current draw is large, and this analog stage is not designed for that, which will cause clipping. Even if you do not hit the current threshold of the analog stage, this stage was only designed to output very very Low currents, and the signal rapidly degrades as current draw goes up. Even with him impedance headphones you are looking at the range of 300-600 ohms. When paired with an amplifier with an input impedance of say 10000 ohms, the current draw from the dac is minimised, thus allowing for maintanence of signal quality.

Now in the chord dacs, because of the way the dac is designed, this output stage does not require any sort of filtering. The change in requirements for this output stage allows it to be designed such that it can be designed to handle large current levels with minimal signal degradation. Hope this clears things up


----------



## Insidious Meme

I was impressed by seeing 3 Liquid Carbons in a small area together. Haven't seen that before.


----------



## x RELIC x

What Twilight Zone does the Liquid Carbon live in? I just did some swapping between the LCD-2 and the LCD-XC on the Liquid Carbon and there was much less perceived volume difference when I swapped headphones without adjusting the volume. I'm used to the less efficient LCD-2 needing to have the volume turned up 1/4 to 1/2 half the volume pot on the Oppo HA-1 to match the perceived volume with the LCD-XC. Not so with the Liquid Carbon. I'd say more like 1/16 to 1/8 adjustment to get close in perceived volume. Colour me surprised. I'm not doing any volume matching or dB measurements. Just going off of perceived volume, which still surprises me. Cool.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> What Twilight Zone does the Liquid Carbon live in? I just did some swapping between the LCD-2 and the LCD-XC on the Liquid Carbon and there was much less perceived volume difference when I swapped headphones without adjusting the volume. I'm used to the less efficient LCD-2 needing to have the volume turned up 1/4 to 1/2 half the volume pot on the Oppo HA-1 to match the perceived volume with the LCD-XC. Not so with the Liquid Carbon. I'd say more like 1/16 to 1/8 adjustment to get close in perceived volume. Colour me surprised. I'm not doing any volume matching or dB measurements. Just going off of perceived volume, which still surprises me. Cool.


 
 Running balanced I assume?


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> Running balanced I assume?




Yeah, of course.  I think it just comes down to great macro dynamics on the LC that's all. Like said, nothing empirical, just perception. I like this little amp.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Yeah, of course.  I think it just comes down to great macro dynamics on the LC that's all. Like said, nothing empirical, just perception. I like this little amp.




Roger that. I switch my Mojo between it and the CDM depending on what sound I feel like. Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> Roger that. I switch my Mojo between it and the CDM depending on what sound I feel like. Cheers




I have had the CDM in my cart so many times, but I just won't use the DAC so I can't bring myself to buy it. Especially with the terrible Canadian dollar now. So glad I grabbed the Liquid Carbon back in July.


----------



## bflat

x relic x said:


> I have had the CDM in my cart so many times, but I just won't use the DAC so I can't bring myself to buy it. Especially with the terrible Canadian dollar now. So glad I grabbed the Liquid Carbon back in July.


 

 I think you would be surprised at how well the DAC performs on the CDM. But yeah, the CAD to USD exchange rate is pretty terrible.


----------



## x RELIC x

bflat said:


> I think you would be surprised at how well the DAC performs on the CDM. But yeah, the CAD to USD exchange rate is pretty terrible.







Spoiler: Off Topic



OT

Actually I've heard that Vinnie and Ken have implemented the WM8741 to the extreme and have wrangled pretty much everything out of it. I have no doubt it sounds amazing, but like I said, I don't _need_ the DAC portion so I think it's a bit too much for me to pay for what I really want.... The amp section. As many have requested I'd be all over a CDM with only the portable tube amp section. I LOVE ALO's tube amps, and sound tuning in general.

/OT


----------



## zaintachik

x relic x said:


> I have had the CDM in my cart so many times, but I just won't use the DAC so I can't bring myself to buy it. Especially with the terrible Canadian dollar now. So glad I grabbed the Liquid Carbon back in July.


 
 Tell me about it dude. USD to malaysian dollars increased by 20% since i bought the LC.


----------



## ambrose1985

Looks like I have to send back my LC serial number 40  
  
 Turned it on today and the lights started to blink and there were pulsating sounds from it ! 
  
 SAD, I barely knew you.


----------



## reddog

```

```



ambrose1985 said:


> Looks like I have to send back my LC serial number 40
> 
> Turned it on today and the lights started to blink and there were pulsating sounds from it !
> 
> SAD, I barely knew you.



Sorry for your loss. I am sure the folk at Cavalli Audio will fix it right up. When my Liquid Glass acted weird, Alex found out what was acting strangely, and fixed it. I hope your liquid Carbon is fixed and sent back to you as fast as possible.


----------



## ambrose1985

reddog said:


> Code:
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


 

 Alex was nice and super helpful about it.
  
 Within a few hours upon notification, he got ready the shipping slip for me to ship it back to him for repair. Will be shipping it to him in about 3 hours. Reply was responsive and informative. 
  
 However, truth be told, reading so much about these mishaps and for it to happen to me have gotten me very dubious about the quality of the LC. 
  
 Am getting another amp to be my home driver and putting this in office so that my home enjoyment doesn't get disturbed


----------



## coastal1

ambrose1985 said:


> Alex was nice and super helpful about it.
> 
> Within a few hours upon notification, he got ready the shipping slip for me to ship it back to him for repair. Will be shipping it to him in about 3 hours. Reply was responsive and informative.
> 
> ...






doctorjazz said:


> This is true...5 or 10 complaints seems like a lot on the thread, but isn't that much percentage wise...




That sucks. I'm loving my LC but seems like the quality control concerns that were raised earlier were legit and the number is much greater than '5-10'


----------



## doctorjazz

Maybe, looks like they're adding up. It does seem the repairs are quite quick, though. Have to say, while this was not "crowdfunding", technically, it was very similar, a discount on pre-order of a product that doesn't exist in reality yet, except a prototype. Ya saves yer money, ya takes yer chances (as a veteran of the LH Labs wars, I speak from experience!).


----------



## warrenpchi

I wouldn't worry too much about some of the sporadic issues that have been popping up with some of the LC units.  We'll be making an announcement shortly that should address everyone's concerns.


----------



## ambrose1985

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about some of the sporadic issues that have been popping up with some of the LC units.  We'll be making an announcement shortly that should address everyone's concerns.


 

 Haha, please do ! Let us know our fates !


----------



## MattTCG

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about some of the sporadic issues that have been popping up with some of the LC units.  We'll be making an announcement shortly that should address everyone's concerns.


 
  
 I'm very interested in what you have to say...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about some of the sporadic issues that have been popping up with some of the LC units.  We'll be making an announcement shortly that should address everyone's concerns.


 
  
 My only concern is how Warren is supposed to troll us all while being a "sponsor".
  
 RIP Tressel and Trollderator...


----------



## Shini44

man i finished the 150 hours burn in!! man its engaging and super clean!! going XLR make you forget about going SE ever again!! this amp should been price like 800$-950$. 
  

  
  
 going balanced is the real deal!! my CIEMs sound super clean, and nicer than any SE i used before!! it made me goes :O :O :O
  
 i am glad that i sent my favorite cable (toxic cable SW22) to be changed from 3.5mm to XLR 4-pins <3 
  
 i am using my Toxic Cable Copper Venom (copper flagship cable/ toxic cables) till my SW22 cable be here in few days.
  
 guys if anyone want a high end copper cable XLR (this one in the photo) for his CIEMs to be used on the LC then PM me.
  
 i will be glad to let this one go with a very nice price (+ free DHL express shipping) to let another LC user enjoy this madness!! man balanced + LC = FTW!!


----------



## ejong7

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about some of the sporadic issues that have been popping up with some of the LC units.  We'll be making an announcement shortly that should address everyone's concerns.


 
 Free $10000 power cables, the next Liquid Spark and a bag of chips for all 500 (or now at least 498) people who ordered the LC that is not related to Cavalli Audio.


----------



## Stillhart

In case anyone was wondering about Warren's new status:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/795315/cavalli-audio-next-phase
  
 Gratz, buddy!


----------



## Youth

stillhart said:


> In case anyone was wondering about Warren's new status:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/795315/cavalli-audio-next-phase
> 
> Gratz, buddy!


 
  
 I was wondering about that, thanks


----------



## ambrose1985

youth said:


> I was wondering about that, thanks


 

 now let's see what's to be done about the LCs


----------



## Colgin

warrenpchi said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about some of the sporadic issues that have been popping up with some of the LC units.  We'll be making an announcement shortly that should address everyone's concerns.




Will be interested to hear the announcement. A couple of things that come to mind though are extending the warranty beyond one year and also making the warranty transferable if the unit is sold to someone else, with the extended warranty being most important for us original buyers.


----------



## callizer

Alex Cavalli said that my LC has been fixed. He'll send it to me after he test it tomorrow.
  
 Alex and Terry have been incredibly helpful and responsive throughout the process. This is the best customer service I've ever received from any company in my lifetime. The problem on my LC is unfortunate, but the way they handle it is really second to none. They just got themselves a life long customer.


----------



## ambrose1985

callizer said:


> Alex Cavalli said that my LC has been fixed. He'll send it to me after he test it tomorrow.
> 
> Alex and Terry have been incredibly helpful and responsive throughout the process. This is the best customer service I've ever received from any company in my lifetime. The problem on my LC is unfortunate, but the way they handle it is really second to none. They just got themselves a life long customer.


 
  
 That's good to hear ! 
  
 I hope your baby will never have to go back to Alex again


----------



## jlbrach

mine is also apparently fixed and about to be sent back to me......hoping all is well when it returns


----------



## jarnopp

jlbrach said:


> mine is also apparently fixed and about to be sent back to me......hoping all is well when it returns




I would suggest doing the burn in again. My board was replaced, so it made sense to. But even if only some parts, you will hopefully quickly discover if they go bad. Also, my experience was that it really improved between 100 and 200 hours. Specifically, smoother mids/highs and potentially tighter bass.


----------



## jlbrach

mine was unlistenable from the beginning,never got a chance to burn it in properly.....i believe my board is being replaced as well


----------



## swspiers

My LC continues to function normally. no issues so far. About 200 hours on it total.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Mine also. No trouble and no hum over SE. Very versatile and musical device.


----------



## Shini44

my cable is back  time to abuse the LC today >=)


----------



## rigo

matttcg said:


> ^^ Mine also. No trouble and no hum over SE. Very versatile and musical device.




Just to clarify, some hum on SE os normal? Both my phones are balanced and any future purchases I will add a balanced cable, but just want to make sure I have a fully working unit. I do hear a slight hum when volume is increased.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Can't say for sure. I don't hear any hum single ended on hd650 or Ether. I don't have any sensitive iem phones though.


----------



## Insidious Meme

Just had a get together with friends and they had good things to say for the Gungnir MB/Liquid Carbon combo. So no issues here with my amp.


----------



## f0oster

I hear hum at about 1 to 2 O'clock with my Ether on 3X gain with SE -- haven't tried balanced, but they are a sensitive headphone and that volume is far past listening levels IMO. Just tried my HD800 -- barely any hum at all, if you can even call it that. Full volume 3x gain with balanced cables.
  
 I've had no issues with my Carbon at all though. I've probably used it for at least 4-5 hours a day since I've got it, some days over 10 hours. It does run really hot, though, I've actually wondered (jokingly) if the pins in my XLR cables might start to melt... LOL
  
@MattTCG, you have a pair of Ethers from memory. Do you hear a hum at 1-2 O'clock and 3x gain with nothing playing via SE?


----------



## MattTCG

f0oster said:


> I hear hum at about 1 to 2 O'clock with my Ether on 3X gain with SE -- haven't tried balanced, but they are a sensitive headphone and that volume is far past listening levels IMO. Just tried my HD800 -- barely any hum at all, if you can even call it that. Full volume 3x gain with balanced cables.
> 
> I've had no issues with my Carbon at all though. I've probably used it for at least 4-5 hours a day since I've got it, some days over 10 hours. It does run really hot, though, I've actually wondered (jokingly) if the pins in my XLR cables might start to melt... LOL
> 
> *@MattTCG, you have a pair of Ethers from memory. Do you hear a hum at 1-2 O'clock and 3x gain with nothing playing via SE?*


 
  
 That volume level is very loud for me at 3x but the answer is no.


----------



## Shini44

so after i let the LC burn for 150 hours, and giving it 2-3 sessions so the sound break in my brain, i can finally tell what is the LC
  
 the LC is indeed the best SS amp i ever owned (at this price) yet if i will put a price for it i would give it at least 900$
  
 its so musical while being so neutral, you are not losing any details what so ever , in both treble and bass, since we are talking musical here i was worried about this point, yet the LC proves to me that its so engaging and musical int he same time 
  
 coming from the Hugo TT alone i was afraid that the LC won't impress me, specially that the hugo TT sound stage is very nice and sound so full, yet the LC's sound stage is slightly smaller than the WA7 amp itself (from memory) nothing else was able to give me a similar sound stage, so i can tell its very big! my CIEMs didn't sound (slightly out of the head) since i had the WA7 amp which is known for its large sound stage. 
  
 going balance made the sound stage bigger, thats why it unlocked a new potential , the best part the sound is so controlled and so clean, yet still not as clean and controlled as the Hugo TT alone but hey the Hugo is like 4500$ and powered by a battery , yet when you look into it, the LC being this clean in front of the Hugo means its so clean to begin with!! 
  
 i been looking for ages for an amp that offer maximum fun in the bass/treble without sacrificing details and musicality, and the LC was right on the spot + being so clean on balanced and with a massive sound stage! (depend on the DAC) 
  
  
 we are lucky to have the LC, its indeed some legendary amp. 

 Thanks Alex for creating such a very nice amp, i will sure save $$$ to go with the Liquid Carbon in the future.


----------



## f0oster

matttcg said:


> That volume level is very loud for me at 3x but the answer is no.


 
 Interesting, thanks for letting me know. And yes, that volume is far too loud for listening.


----------



## grizzlybeast

matttcg said:


> ^^ Mine also. No trouble and no hum over SE. Very versatile and musical device.


 
  
 how do you like it compared to your Mjolnir 2?


----------



## MattTCG

Mjo2 with a good set of NOS tubes is pretty spectacular. Carbon pulls off some compelling features and has loads of musical sound. Where the mjo2 has sophisticated power. Both Are very good. If price were the same I'd take the mjo2.


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> Mjo2 with a good set of NOS tubes is pretty spectacular. Carbon pulls off some compelling features and has loads of musical sound. Where the mjo2 has sophisticated power. Both Are very good. If price were the same I'd take the mjo2.


 
  
 "A good set of NOS tubes" can cost as much as the whole LC for a matched set.  They're not super comparable amps...


----------



## grizzlybeast

stillhart said:


> "A good set of NOS tubes" can cost as much as the whole LC for a matched set.  They're not super comparable amps...



He knows he is just answering my question. That's all. It's good to know.


----------



## MattTCG

stillhart said:


> "A good set of NOS tubes" can cost as much as the whole LC for a matched set.  They're not super comparable amps...


 
  
 Can't argue with you there. Stock tubes on the mjo2 did NOTHING for me. Honestly, if they took $50 off the price and offered the amp with no tubes it would be a better deal for me. 
  
 So there is certainly a price differential between the two amps, and the mjo 2 should sound better. And IMO it does. Ultimately the price difference is almost double once you add the NOS tubes.


----------



## swspiers

matttcg said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > "A good set of NOS tubes" can cost as much as the whole LC for a matched set.  They're not super comparable amps...
> ...




Might as well get a Rag, unless one is biased (get it? ) toward tubes.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Can't argue with you there. Stock tubes on the mjo2 did NOTHING for me. Honestly, if they took $50 off the price and offered the amp with no tubes it would be a better deal for me.
> 
> So there is certainly a price differential between the two amps, and the mjo 2 should sound better. And IMO it does. Ultimately the price difference is almost double once you add the NOS tubes.



Yes NOS tubes for the MJ2, can be costly. I was lucky and I got a pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes, for $180. With those NOS tubes, the MJ2 sounds superb. However I only use those NOS tubes for critical listening. So for everyday jam sessions I use either a pair of current production Telefunken TK E88CC or I use a pair of current production Gold Lions. Once I have saved up some more money, I will get some more NOS tubes for the MJ2 and my Liquid Glass. I hope everyone has a good day and their rigs put a big old smile on your face.


----------



## Shini44

matttcg said:


> Mjo2 with a good set of NOS tubes is pretty spectacular. Carbon pulls off some compelling features and has loads of musical sound. Where the mjo2 has sophisticated power. Both Are very good. If price were the same I'd take the mjo2.


 
  


stillhart said:


> "A good set of NOS tubes" can cost as much as the whole LC for a matched set.  They're not super comparable amps...


 
  


reddog said:


> Yes NOS tubes for the MJ2, can be costly. I was lucky and I got a pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes, for $180. With those NOS tubes, the MJ2 sounds superb. However I only use those NOS tubes for critical listening. So for everyday jam sessions I use either a pair of current production Telefunken TK E88CC or I use a pair of current production Gold Lions. Once I have saved up some more money, I will get some more NOS tubes for the MJ2 and my Liquid Glass. I hope everyone has a good day and their rigs put a big old smile on your face.


 
  
 but hey is the Treble Hot on the M2? i assume it got less treble energy and sparkle? since its a tube, regardless the tube
  
 i hope i am wrong ofc 
  
 update me if possible ^^


----------



## zachawry

All this talk about the MJ is funny, because the way I see it here are my choices: 
  
 1. Get MJ2 this year. 
 2. Save up, get Crimson next year. 
 3. Really save up, get Gold or Glass in two years. 
  
 It's like the famous marshmallow experiment. Unfortunately, I think I would have failed.....


----------



## Shini44

zachawry said:


> All this talk about the MJ is funny, because the way I see it here are my choices:
> 
> 1. Get MJ2 this year.
> 2. Save up, get Crimson next year.
> ...


 
 i might go Liquid Gold directly (after a lot of time and saving lol) , and hope the upper mids will be something that rivals the Master 9 mids,  the M9 mids are as good as WA7 tube amp.. so lush and transparent. really the best SS amp mids i heard
  
 yet its not as engaging as the Cavali Audio amps.


----------



## reddog

shini44 said:


> but hey is the Treble Hot on the M2? i assume it got less treble energy and sparkle? since its a tube, regardless the tube
> 
> i hope i am wrong ofc
> 
> update me if possible ^^



The treble seems spot on, especially with good tubes. Although I did not like my MJ2, with NOS EDISWAN tubes, to lush and not enough resolving detail. I would very much like to get a liquid gold too. But right now I am happy with my Liquid Glass, Crimson and Carbon.


----------



## ajwu95

I've been using the Liquid Carbon with my HD800 single ended and it sounded great. Just last week my balanced cables came in and I was pretty excited to hear balanced for the first time. As I was listening, I noticed a big difference from the stock cable to balanced. The difference was pretty disappointing. Most songs I listened to felt restricted and muzzled.I thought it was the amp but it sounded the same with another LC and a Rag. In the end, the balanced cable I got wasnt good. So now I'm out to find another balanced cable... I guess I'll never know what balanced LC will sound like for awhile


----------



## sheldaze

ajwu95 said:


> I've been using the Liquid Carbon with my HD800 single ended and it sounded great. Just last week my balanced cables came in and I was pretty excited to hear balanced for the first time. As I was listening, I noticed a big difference from the stock cable to balanced. The difference was pretty disappointing. Most songs I listened to felt restricted and muzzled.I thought it was the amp but it sounded the same with another LC and a Rag. In the end, the balanced cable I got wasn't good. So now I'm out to find another balanced cable... I guess I'll never know what balanced LC will sound like for awhile


 
 Mind telling us which brand of cable you bought?
  
 The balanced output from the LC, as I'm sure you've read, is generally considered the better connection. Though I've also read that the original HD800 cable is quite good. My original cable works, but is kinked in such a way that it likely will not work after frequent use. So my question - what cables did you buy, is more to ask, did you get the same cable that I bought two of - one for balanced and one to replace my original unbalanced.


----------



## ajwu95

sheldaze said:


> Mind telling us which brand of cable you bought?
> 
> The balanced output from the LC, as I'm sure you've read, is generally considered the better connection. Though I've also read that the original HD800 cable is quite good. My original cable works, but is kinked in such a way that it likely will not work after frequent use. So my question - what cables did you buy, is more to ask, did you get the same cable that I bought two of - one for balanced and one to replace my original unbalanced.


I bought BTG Audio 8-strand SPC cables. What brand did you buy? I was just planning to get the original sennhesier one or moon audio black dragons.


----------



## sheldaze

ajwu95 said:


> I bought BTG Audio 8-strand SPC cables. What brand did you buy? I was just planning to get the original sennhesier one or moon audio black dragons.


 
 MassDrop sourced ZY HIFI Cable(s).
 The original cables are excellent, though a little expensive. I've been happy with cables from Moon Audio, though strictly bought digital thus far.


----------



## ajwu95

sheldaze said:


> MassDrop sourced ZY HIFI Cable(s).
> The original cables are excellent, though a little expensive. I've been happy with cables from Moon Audio, though strictly bought digital thus far.


I would've gotten ZY cables but I missed the drop a month late. I did hear good things about them. I most likely am going to get moon audio cables just because I am not a fan of the lengthy stock ones.


----------



## sheldaze

ajwu95 said:


> I would've gotten ZY cables but I missed the drop a month late. I did hear good things about them. I most likely am going to get moon audio cables just because I am not a fan of the lengthy stock ones.


 
 They're good people - met them at a meet about a year ago.
 Look them up, and talk to them. They have many options and can perhaps _taylor_ the sound a little to your liking. Each kind of cable does something a little different.


----------



## ajwu95

sheldaze said:


> They're good people - met them at a meet about a year ago.
> Look them up, and talk to them. They have many options and can perhaps _taylor_ the sound a little to your liking. Each kind of cable does something a little different.


Thanks for the info. Yeah I was looking on their website, and they offer a lot! I'll probably shoot them an email later on.


----------



## jarnopp

mscott58 said:


> Line out.




Mscott58, have you played around with line out volume from the Mojo any further? I calculate (roughly, based on the little I know) that 3.6v would be needed to fully drive the LC, but even with the HE-6s I've been using most, at line out I am not getting much above 11 with rock stuff and 1-2 on classical. Mostly casual listening at 9-10. I feel like turning the Mojo 3 clicks down from line out and turning up the LC gives a bit warmer sound.


----------



## nicolo

ajwu95 said:


> I've been using the Liquid Carbon with my HD800 single ended and it sounded great. Just last week my balanced cables came in and I was pretty excited to hear balanced for the first time. As I was listening, I noticed a big difference from the stock cable to balanced. The difference was pretty disappointing. Most songs I listened to felt restricted and muzzled.I thought it was the amp but it sounded the same with another LC and a Rag. In the end, the balanced cable I got wasnt good. So now I'm out to find another balanced cable... I guess I'll never know what balanced LC will sound like for awhile


 
  
 Try the Norne Audio Draug v2 cable. Quite a few people have that combo and feel that it improves bass slam and overall tonality.


----------



## ajwu95

nicolo said:


> Try the Norne Audio Draug v2 cable. Quite a few people have that combo and feel that it improves bass slam and overall tonality.


I'll give that a look, but I'm also looking to find a cable that can tame the highs as well


----------



## nicolo

ajwu95 said:


> I'll give that a look, but I'm also looking to find a cable that can tame the highs as well


 
  
 The Draug v2 does that too.


----------



## santacore

WyWires makes a great headphone cable at a reasonable price.


----------



## zachawry

jarnopp said:


> Mscott58, have you played around with line out volume from the Mojo any further? I calculate (roughly, based on the little I know) that 3.6v would be needed to fully drive the LC, but even with the HE-6s I've been using most, at line out I am not getting much above 11 with rock stuff and 1-2 on classical. Mostly casual listening at 9-10. I feel like turning the Mojo 3 clicks down from line out and turning up the LC gives a bit warmer sound.


 

 I turn the output on the Hugo down as well. If nothing else, it gives me more "play" in the volume knob on the LC, allowing for easier and more exact volume adjustments.


----------



## ajwu95

nicolo said:


> The Draug v2 does that too.


The reviews of the draug v2 are all positive. I might have to consider it. And it looks really nice too.


----------



## pippen99

Quote: 





ajwu95 said:


> The reviews of the draug v2 are all positive. I might have to consider it. And it looks really nice too.


 
 I love my Draug v2 and Draug v2 adapter for my LCD-X.  Trevor does incredibly fine work.  The Draug is very labor intensive to make. Be prepared for a lengthy build time.  Mine was approximately 45 days from order to delivery.  For me it was worth the wait.


----------



## doctorjazz

Use a similar set up for HEK/LC with the Norne Zoetic cable, terminated like yours.


----------



## jlbrach

out of curiousity does anyone who owns the LC also own a Chord 2cute and if so how exactly do you connect one to the other....i would in theory use an AK120 in such a setup but looking at the pictures of the 2cute i cannot see how it connects to the LC....thanks ahead of time


----------



## Stillhart

jlbrach said:


> out of curiousity does anyone who owns the LC also own a Chord 2cute and if so how exactly do you connect one to the other....i would in theory use an AK120 in such a setup but looking at the pictures of the 2cute i cannot see how it connects to the LC....thanks ahead of time


 
  
 RCA to RCA.  Am I missing something in your question?


----------



## RKML0007

I have a 2Qute and connect it to LC via RCA. There's only one output type. I can also connect the 2Qute to my Master-11 using it as a pre-amp feeding balanced input to LC. This is very useful for AB comparison.


----------



## jlbrach

i asked because on the manual it said phono out so it confused me a bit...i do not own the 2Qute as of yet but was curious...thanks...how does it sound paired together?


----------



## RKML0007

2Qute and LC are a great match, a highly musical pairing that delivers everything I hoped it would. It fulfills all expectations I had for the combination and does so quite effortlessly with the cans I have. I was already familiar with Chord Mojo so it was a natural progression to go with 2Qute for more of the Chord sound.


----------



## digitallc

rkml0007 said:


> 2Qute and LC are a great match, a highly musical pairing that delivers everything I hoped it would. It fulfills all expectations I had for the combination and does so quite effortlessly with the cans I have. I was already familiar with Chord Mojo so it was a natural progression to go with 2Qute for more of the Chord sound.


 

 Agreed. Good synergy, and sounds great.


----------



## jlbrach

to those who are indeed using the Chord Hugo with the Liquid Carbon may I ask if you are using the line out volume as is or are you lowering the volume a bit from the line out volume level into the LC?thanks


----------



## Shini44

jlbrach said:


> to those who are indeed using the Chord Hugo with the Liquid Carbon may I ask if you are using the line out volume as is or are you lowering the volume a bit from the line out volume level into the LC?thanks


 
 no need for the line out at all, some of the hugo users make it green , others make it white
  
 it depend on what is connected with the LC
  
 for example,. on my CA Ei.XX its on green, on my CA Anzu 2.0 or LCD-2 its on the white.

  
 basically find your sweet point/spot and enjoy your time.


----------



## jlbrach

wow,white on the LCD-2....I was listening to my Ether C's using the Hugo's line out setting and on low gain through the balanced out i had no need to go beyond around 9PM on the LC volume....I am trying to find a consensus if possible..thanks


----------



## Shini44

jlbrach said:


> wow,white on the LCD-2....I was listening to my Ether C's using the Hugo's line out setting and on low gain through the balanced out i had no need to go beyond around 9PM on the LC volume....I am trying to find a consensus if possible..thanks


 
 LCD-2 is a dark headphone, so on higher volume and from the clean Hugo TT, it won't sound fatiguing at all.  i would say it was purple volume most of the time, not white. 
  
 depend on the track etc.


----------



## Cardiiiii

jlbrach said:


> wow,white on the LCD-2....I was listening to my Ether C's using the Hugo's line out setting and on low gain through the balanced out i had no need to go beyond around 9PM on the LC volume....I am trying to find a consensus if possible..thanks




I have the Hugo on dark blue, Amarra at -7/5 and the LC between 1-3pm at 1X gain.


----------



## wym2

jlbrach said:


> to those who are indeed using the Chord Hugo with the Liquid Carbon may I ask if you are using the line out volume as is or are you lowering the volume a bit from the line out volume level into the LC?thanks


 
  
 Using Hugo’s younger brother, Mojo.  Both have the same line out options --I too am using a lower line output:  ca. 2 vrms or dark blue. LC at “high gain” (red). 
  
  
 MBP → SDragon USB → Mojo →AQ Big Sur trs →LC (HE 400i)


----------



## Koolpep

Gents, 
  
 happy to be an owner of a LC now as well. Since @Shini44 is moving on to even greener pastures, I was lucky enough to have bought his LC number 00499 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And so far I have listened only to my Oppo PM-3 via balanced cable in the office fed from a Modi2Uber DAC and I am speechless. I thought the ifi iDSD micro, Burson Conductor and Hifiman 901 could drive the PM-3 very well. But the level of engagement with the LC is *off the charts*. These phones became bass cannons and are so much fuller and fun! I am smiling and staring into nowhere - no idea what my colleagues think I am listening to, haha. Man, do I love this amp.
  
 Can't wait to give my other headphones a workout over the next few days, it's gonna be a blast.
  
 Amazing little thing this amp....
  

  

  

  
 Cheers!! And thanks Cavalli Audio for creating this amazing amp!!


----------



## Shini44

sold my LC , since i will be going Liquid Gold later, the LC is so good, it made me decide to skip the GS-X MKII and go with the Liquid Gold


----------



## x RELIC x

Spoiler






koolpep said:


> Gents,
> 
> happy to be an owner of a LC now as well. Since @Shini44 is moving on to even greener pastures, I was lucky enough to have bought his LC number 00499
> 
> ...






Congrats Koolpep!! 

One of us! One of us! At least until you upgrade to one of Cavalli's more expensive amps!

Liquid Carbon.... Cavalli gateway drug!


----------



## Koolpep

x relic x said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you @x RELIC x , I have heard many amps at meets but I am really blown away by this one so far and I thought I am now immune to that, LOL.
  
 Yep, gateway drug for sure, didn't take long with @Shini44 to move upwards, LOL. Guess that is a win-win for both of us. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers! Good to be here finally.


----------



## swspiers

x relic x said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah- no kidding


----------



## Youth

shini44 said:


> sold my LC , since i will be going Liquid Gold later, the LC is so good, it made me decide to skip the GS-X MKII and go with the Liquid Gold


 
  
 That was a swift decision. Wonder how the Gold compares to the Carbon. I do however know that if I'm ever gonna upgrade from the Carbon it's gonna be something from Cavalli again.
  
 Please come back to this thread and write your thoughts


----------



## Shini44

youth said:


> That was a swift decision. Wonder how the Gold compares to the Carbon. I do however know that if I'm ever gonna upgrade from the Carbon it's gonna be something from Cavalli again.
> 
> Please come back to this thread and write your thoughts


 
 ofc i will, but lets wait till Alex announces the next patch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


 btw i tested the HE-6 with the LC, and it wasn't bad at all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  it sounded more fun than my LCD-2 fazor hooked with the LC.

 the LAu (Liquid Gold) can drive the HE-6 and does a better job than GS-X MKII when it comes to driving the HE-6.


----------



## MattTCG

koolpep said:


> Gents,
> 
> happy to be an owner of a LC now as well. Since @Shini44 is moving on to even greener pastures, I was lucky enough to have bought his LC number 00499
> 
> ...


 
  
 How do you compare the LC to BHC?


----------



## Youth

shini44 said:


> ofc i will, but lets wait till Alex announces the next patch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh so you have actually heard it already? How does it compare to LC?


----------



## Koolpep

matttcg said:


> How do you compare the LC to BHC?


 

 Since the BHC has 150 Ohm output impedance, I can only test it with the high impedance cans that I have, but haven't done it yet. So BHC is only really great with HD650 and T90 or other high impedance cans in my opinion. Both will be run soon on the amps  stay tuned. Just packed my HD650 and the balanced cable to test it tomorrow!!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## MattTCG

koolpep said:


> Since the BHC has 150 Ohm output impedance, I can only test it with the high impedance cans that I have, but haven't done it yet. So BHC is only really great with HD650 and T90 or other high impedance cans in my opinion. Both will be run soon on the amps  stay tuned. Just packed my HD650 and the balanced cable to test it tomorrow!!
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 Nice!! I thought the hd650 was fantastic with the LC balanced.


----------



## Shini44

youth said:


> Oh so you have actually heard it already? How does it compare to LC?


 
 no a friend who got both gave me details, i do ask around a lot before i buy. 
  
  
 since i live way too far , can test nothing at all.


----------



## swspiers

shini44 said:


> youth said:
> 
> 
> > Oh so you have actually heard it already? How does it compare to LC?
> ...




Dude, you have a great attitude towards this hobby. I realize how spoiled I am, having easy access to gear most of the time. But buying everything blind, and having a great time doing it...that's just fun to read about.

No wonder you were anxious about the LC shipping!


----------



## conquerator2

I really want my yesterday!


----------



## Shini44

swspiers said:


> Dude, you have a great attitude towards this hobby. I realize how spoiled I am, having easy access to gear most of the time. But buying everything blind, and having a great time doing it...that's just fun to read about.
> 
> No wonder you were anxious about the LC shipping!


 
 i am fine with testing, because so many people here read my reviews about the new stuff (like when i bought Ragnarok amp) on Dubai's thread, and buy it from me for a good price. our community is bigger now and more high end stuff started to show at our yearly meeting. 

 also thanks to the nice people on head-fi its really easy to know what i will be getting into, so i am not worried about not testing at all


----------



## warrenpchi

Hey everybody, made a quick announcement over in the other thread.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Here's a link in case you're not subbed to the other one:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp/5385#post_12303386


----------



## ejong7

warrenpchi said:


> Hey everybody, made a quick announcement over in the other thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Another day, another LC thread.


----------



## Stillhart

ejong7 said:


> Another day, another LC thread.


 
  
 Here's one more:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty
  
 tl;dr - All LC's now have transferable lifetime warranty.


----------



## ejong7

stillhart said:


> Here's one more:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty
> 
> tl;dr - All LC's now have transferable lifetime warranty.


 

 That was the one I was alluding to.


----------



## Marshal Banana

I'm very glad to be one of the 500 lucky owners. I enjoy it everyday with my Ether.
 Amazing service from Cavalli Audio, the LC is definitly a keeper.


----------



## novaca

novaca said:


> Hi, is your unit completely silent? I noticed slight hum after turning on (tested on SE out; DAC disconnected, 230V / 50Hz). Hum is independent of volume, but it is louder when switching 3x gain - I am afraid to became louder on balanced out (yet I can not try it). On the same place another amplifier (V200) is absolutely silent. Anyone have a similar experience or solution/explanation? Thanks.


 
  
 The above described no change (in SE).
 But I have a new balanced headphone cable now
 ... and everything is completely silent.
 therefore, I probably not (yet) to solve hum in the SE and I enjoyed balanced.


----------



## westermac

I was fortunate to find a LC in the FS section and it's arriving tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What a sweet surprise to find out about the (transferable!) lifetime warranty! Unbelievable. I'll be sure to share my impressions with the LCD-X after I've spent some time with the new precious...


----------



## musiclvr

westermac said:


> I was fortunate to find a LC in the FS section and it's arriving tomorrow   What a sweet surprise to find out about the (transferable!) lifetime warranty! Unbelievable. I'll be sure to share my impressions with the LCD-X after I've spent some time with the new precious...



Looking forward to your impressions as I am seriously considering the LCD-X.


----------



## warrenpchi

westermac said:


> I was fortunate to find a LC in the FS section and it's arriving tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't forget to drop me a message at warren@cavalliaudio.com so that we can transfer the warranty over to you!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


musiclvr said:


> Looking forward to your impressions as I am seriously considering the LCD-X.


 
  
 IMO, that's the best headphone they make.  I even prefer it over their flagship LCD-3.


----------



## Stillhart

warrenpchi said:


> IMO, that's the best headphone they make.  I even prefer it over their flagship LCD-3.


 
  
 Their flagship is the LCD-4 now.    At at only $3999, you can get the LCD-X and the LCD-3 and still have money left over!  lol


----------



## westermac

musiclvr said:


> Looking forward to your impressions as I am seriously considering the LCD-X.


 

 The LCD-X has been the perfect headphone for me, with the small exception that I find mine a bit more recessed than I would like in the upper mids (around 3.5kHz) which causes male vocals to not stand out as much as I'd like. Based on FR graphs many LCD-X's take less of a dip in this area, so it could very well be unique to my set.
  
 I've also made a suspension strap for myself as the stock headband created a pressure hotspot at the peak of my head; now I can wear it for hours with no problem.
  
 I've heard the LC has a somewhat "forward" presentation so we'll see if this does the trick!


----------



## warrenpchi

stillhart said:


> Their flagship is the LCD-4 now.    At at only $3999, you can get the LCD-X and the LCD-3 and still have money left over!  lol


 
  
 I haven't heard that yet... so in my mind it ain't the flagship until I give it my blessing.


----------



## westermac

warrenpchi said:


> Don't forget to drop me a message at warren@cavalliaudio.com so that we can transfer the warranty over to you!


 
  
 Check your inbox 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Warren! (Great name, BTW, both my grandfather and now my son are Warrens).


----------



## warrenpchi

westermac said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget to drop me a message at warren@cavalliaudio.com so that we can transfer the warranty over to you!
> ...


 
  
 You're all set!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 BTW, in case y'all didn't know, today is @Stillhart's birthday!


----------



## mscott58

warrenpchi said:


> You're all set!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Happy Birthday Dan! 
  
 Time to go polish the trophy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers my friend


----------



## doctorjazz

warrenpchi said:


> [CONTENTEMBED=/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/1470#post_12307866 layout=inline]Quote:[/CONTENTEMBED]
> 
> 
> westermac said:
> ...




And a very Happy Birthday to you!


----------



## Stillhart

Thanks, gentlemen.


----------



## callizer

@warrenpchi

I just sent you an email for warranty transfer.

---

By the way, I recently got my LC back from repair. The distortion is gone for now (and I hope forever). I'll update you guys again after some more extended use.

By the way, I noticed there's a low frequency white noise when the amp is turned off AND if I touch my headphone. Surely my hand can't conduct that much electricity? The noise itself doesn't bother me but I wonder if it can affect the life time of amp or my headphones.


----------



## warrenpchi

callizer said:


> @warrenpchi
> 
> I just sent you an email for warranty transfer.


 
  
 Got it, thanks!  I just replied.


----------



## callizer

It turns out I was using this new adapter that I bought last week. It says "no grounding"


----------



## zachawry

Just for kicks, I put my Senny IE800s into my Carbon for the first time just now, and holey moley! 
  
 I can't believe how much they come alive, how much they scale with the extra power.
  
 I was going to let go of my Carbon to help pay for a Glass, but this is making it really hard...


----------



## musiclvr

zachawry said:


> Just for kicks, I put my Senny IE800s into my Carbon for the first time just now, and holey moley!
> 
> I can't believe how much they come alive, how much they scale with the extra power.
> 
> I was going to let go of my Carbon to help pay for a Glass, but this is making it really hard...



So you didn't hear any hum over SE output w/ the IE800?


----------



## zachawry

musiclvr said:


> So you didn't hear any hum over SE output w/ the IE800?


 

 Zero hum at 1X. 
  
 Edit: Let me modify that. I can identify zero hum when it's on. If I turn it off, then I become aware of a greater silence, ie there is some form of audio input that goes away when I turn off the device. But it's not even really identifiable unless I'm actively turning the thing on and off. Don't know whether that qualifies.


----------



## musiclvr

zachawry said:


> Zero hum at 1X.
> 
> Edit: Let me modify that. I can identify zero hum when it's on. If I turn it off, then I become aware of a greater silence, ie there is some form of audio input that goes away when I turn off the device. But it's not even really identifiable unless I'm actively turning the thing on and off. Don't know whether that qualifies.



Got it thanks. How do you find the IE800 pairs/scale with the LC? Are they more or less sibilance prone? Do the mids stand out more? Is the bass even more controlled? Sorry for bombarding you hahaha It's just that I have been searching for a quality iem that plays nice with the LC through SE out.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Number 301 here. Finally got it after having it sent to HK to avoid VAT. It's. Really good. It sounds almost like a tube if that makes sense. Wow, it makes all of my cans sing, even the ones that are notoriously picky with their amping material. Cavalli knocked it out the park if you ask me!


----------



## Peridot

bucketinabucket said:


> Number 301 here. Finally got it after having it sent to HK to avoid VAT. It's. Really good. It sounds almost like a tube if that makes sense. Wow, it makes all of my cans sing, even the ones that are notoriously picky with their amping material. Cavalli knocked it out the park if you ask me!


 
  
 I admire your patience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm also celebrating today as I've finally got some headphones to properly compliment the LC.
  
 In a reversal of the usual Head-Fi story I went to buy some Ethers and came away with something else. I wanted closed cans and actually preferred the new version Beyerdynamic T5p to the Ether Cs. The T5p weren't available to buy at the time, but I found a good deal on the open-backed T1s which I also liked very much. Straight out of the box and on SE output they are sounding absolutely beautiful from the Carbon. Once they've loosened up a bit and I get the balanced cable for them I think I'll be grinning from ear to ear.
  
 If I can find a similar discount on the T5p, I'll have both for the same price as a single pair of Ethers. I don't think I could get better value than that.


----------



## zachawry

musiclvr said:


> Got it thanks. How do you find the IE800 pairs/scale with the LC? Are they more or less sibilance prone? Do the mids stand out more? Is the bass even more controlled? Sorry for bombarding you hahaha It's just that I have been searching for a quality iem that plays nice with the LC through SE out.


 

 I've never found the IE800s particularly sibilant. The bass improves with the LC versus straight out my Hugo (already incredible) or my AK120II, but it's more a matter of just pure unfailing control over the IEM. The IE800 is kind of a problem child...They sound good even directly out of an iPhone, but I've always felt, even with my Hugo, that there's something holding them back. It's like the LC is forcing them to do what they've been yearning to do all this time anyway. 
  
 Sorry for the abstruse prose.


----------



## musiclvr

zachawry said:


> I've never found the IE800s particularly sibilant. The bass improves with the LC versus straight out my Hugo (already incredible) or my AK120II, but it's more a matter of just pure unfailing control over the IEM. The IE800 is kind of a problem child...They sound good even directly out of an iPhone, but I've always felt, even with my Hugo, that there's something holding them back. It's like the LC is forcing them to do what they've been yearning to do all this time anyway.
> 
> Sorry for the abstruse prose.



Thank kindly for your insight.


----------



## jlbrach

I got mine back recently after repair of the volume pot.....my initial impressions are it is a very good pseudo portable amp..it drives everything very well and the balanced design is outstanding.....I have the Yiggy/Rago desktop combo and I have been using the LC with my Hugo or Mojo and the pairings work quite nicely for cans in need of the extra power...all in all a very nice amp


----------



## Audio Addict

I was at the Chicago Head-Fi meet yesterday and Jude attended and brought the Chord Dave and Cavalli Audio had sent a Liquid Gold. While I throughly enjoyed the pairing, I am now sitting at home with the Liquid Carbon paired to my older Meridian 808.2i using a Vero Full-range cable paired with my HE-6 and I am not missing the Gold and the Dave.


----------



## doctorjazz

audio addict said:


> I was at the Chicago Head-Fi meet yesterday and Jude attended and brought the Chord Dave and Cavalli Audio had sent a Liquid Gold. While I throughly enjoyed the pairing, I am now sitting at home with the Liquid Carbon paired to my older Meridian 808.2i using a Vero Full-range cable paired with my HE-6 and I am not missing the Gold and the Dave.




That's interesting, was considering the trade up from the LC to the Gold, wondering if it is worth the not inconsiderable expense (even with the nice discount being offered to LC owners). Haven't been able to audition the higher end Cavalli offereings. Hmmmm....


----------



## Audio Addict

doctorjazz said:


> That's interesting, was considering the trade up from the LC to the Gold, wondering if it is worth the not inconsiderable expense (even with the nice discount being offered to LC owners). Haven't been able to audition the higher end Cavalli offereings. Hmmmm....


 
  
 The Gold obviously is better than the Liquid Carbon but for my personal taste, I am finding the Liquid Carbon paired with the older Meridian 808.2i (6 to 7 year technology) allows me to enjoy the music.  YMMV but for me, I don't see dropping the $$$$ on the Gold unless the upgrade bug comes out of remission later this year before the CA offer expires.
  
_Good point!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I was going to announce the prices for this upcoming run next week, but here's what we're looking at:_
  

_Liquid Crimson__$2,999.00__Liquid Glass__$3,499.00__Liquid Gold__$3,999.00__Liquid Lightning 2T (SS)__$4,499.00__Liquid Lightning 2T (Tube)__$4,999.00_
  
_The $599 discount would be off of the prices shown above._


----------



## doctorjazz

audio addict said:


> [QUOTE name="doctorjazz" url="/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-
> 
> The Gold obviously is better than the Liquid Carbon but for my personal taste, I am finding the Liquid Carbon paired with the older Meridian 808.2i (6 to 7 year technology) allows me to enjoy the music.  YMMV but for me, I don't see dropping the $$$$ on the Gold unless the upgrade bug comes out of remission later this year before the CA offer expires.
> 
> ...




I've been in the audiophile game long enough to have learned a few things:
1)Whatever you buy, there is always something out there that is supposed to be better.
2)In a choice between similar quality gear, sometimes there is no "best", it may just come down to "flavor" one prefers.
3)Even if you buy what is supposed to be "the best" , within a year or 2 there will be something that is supposed to sound better, often from the same manufacturer ("latest and greatest update syndrome")
4)Diminishing returns is a cruel bitch...
5)What is "the best" is also related to synergy between gear...component A, while "Class A" according to the magazines, may not be the best match for the gear you own...
6)Whatever you purchased, that you thought sounded great when you bought it, still sounds great even after newer, "better" versions are released (except if mechanical issues develop). 
7)Upgraditis is another cruel bitch...(I periodically fall prey  )

Which reminds me of the Talmudic quote I am fond of posting here..."Who is the rich man? He who is satisfied with his lot."
Peace, love, and Good sound to all


----------



## XenHeadFi

doctorjazz said:


> I've been in the audiophile game long enough to have learned a few things:
> 1)Whatever you buy, there is always something out there that is supposed to be better.
> 2)In a choice between similar quality gear, sometimes there is no "best", it may just come down to "flavor" one prefers.
> 3)Even if you buy what is supposed to be "the best" , within a year or 2 there will be something that is supposed to sound better, often from the same manufacturer ("latest and greatest update syndrome")
> ...


 
 Super Sensible NonZOTL Advice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Especially numbers 6 & 7.


----------



## doctorjazz

xenheadfi said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > I've been in the audiophile game long enough to have learned a few things:
> ...




Hey, another good homily that applies to what I write would be, "Do as I say, not as I do!" :normal_smile :


----------



## Odin412

mr rick said:


> My first observation:
> 
> Adding balanced cables to my HD650 and using the balanced output of the LC has given my HD650s new life. Always seemed my HD650s were a bit flat. No longer.


 
  
 I have the same experience with my HD 650. I really hoped there would be no difference between the balanced and unbalanced outputs so I wouldn't have to bother with balanced cables, but the balanced output sounds better. Deeper and meatier bass, more lively/dynamic overall and more open (and more musical!) treble.


----------



## jlbrach

It is funny,when it comes to audio equipment I find myself always wanting to have the latest and greatest and am constantly upgrading etc....when it comes to my TV i can go years without any desire to upgrade it despite reading about new and better models...i wonder why that is?


----------



## Koolpep

jlbrach said:


> It is funny,when it comes to audio equipment I find myself always wanting to have the latest and greatest and am constantly upgrading etc....when it comes to my TV i can go years without any desire to upgrade it despite reading about new and better models...i wonder why that is?


 
  
 It's not the equipment - it's what the equipment produces:

 Music reaches very deep on an emotional level. Music is beautiful. Music is universal. Music is personal. Music can get us to magical places. Music _moves _you.
  
 It's like an addiction: Once you have experienced the goosebumps when you listen to your favorite song with a "perfect" setup and you are floating on a different level, it sends shivers down your spine.....you want it all the time. Slowly it wears off but you want to have that feeling again, to be moved, to be touched by the music, so you search for the next "best" thing that can possibly do that. Some damn upgrade will bring that feeling back again, you know it. You just need to find the right one. The journey is exciting as even if it doesn't work you learn.
  
 Or maybe something completely different....for you.
  
 TV/Movies are more one-time. I hardly watch a movie twice - but I love to listen to my favorite tunes over and over again. I would never think by myself: I wonder how this movie would be if I watched it on a 102inch instead of a 55inch screen... 
  
 Cheers.
  
 To get back on topic: For the love of music - give us a second run of Liquid Carbon @warrenpchi - you hear us?


----------



## jlbrach

I agree with you but i know people who want the absolute best experience when watching blu-ray's and television and will go to great lengths to get it...I personally like a nice TV but will not go to the lengths i will when it comes to audio equipment


----------



## XenHeadFi

koolpep said:


> It's not the equipment - it's what the equipment produces:
> 
> Music reaches very deep on an emotional level. Music is beautiful. Music is universal. Music is personal. Music can get us to magical places. Music _moves _you.


 
 You know there are Cinephiles out there...
  
 Say the words "70 mm negatives" and watch them drool. Say the name of a well known cinematographer and listen to the wax on about this shot in that film where the lighting was just orgasmic. Who is to say what some people find moving and not moving.
  
 YMMV and all that. To each their own and all that.


----------



## mandrake50

xenheadfi said:


> You know there are Cinephiles out there...
> 
> Say the words "70 mm negatives" and watch them drool. Say the name of a well known cinematographer and listen to the wax on about this shot in that film where the lighting was just orgasmic. Who is to say what some people find moving and not moving.
> 
> YMMV and all that. To each their own and all that.


 

 We are all members of the same compulsive disorder "have to have something _better_"  club. I have been there with Cars, guns, cameras, knives, knife sharpeners, telescopes, video cameras, and others. It is all the same. We insist on over analyzing, and insisting that exorbitant amounts of money for the next best thing is entirely justified. Guess what, if one happens to be so afflicted and have the means, it is justified for you. The thing that makes my head hurt is to talk to people that spend three or four times as much as they make in a month buying high end...anything . That happens around here quite often. Very interesting behaviors, that make no sense to me... but who cares. (though often it gives rise to intense feelings of jealousy.


----------



## yage

xenheadfi said:


> Say the words "70 mm negatives" and watch them drool.


 
  
 There's a good reason for that. I once saw a 70 mm print of 2001: A Space Odyssey at the Music Box Theater in Chicago. I never knew film could look so sharp and dimensional. Even if you only 'like' movies, you should try to watch one in 70 mm sometime.


----------



## jarnopp

xenheadfi said:


> You know there are Cinephiles out there...
> 
> Say the words "70 mm negatives" and watch them drool. Say the name of a well known cinematographer and listen to the wax on about this shot in that film where the lighting was just orgasmic. Who is to say what some people find moving and not moving.
> 
> YMMV and all that. To each their own and all that.




Music may be fundamentally (neurologically) different:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/09/science/new-ways-into-the-brains-music-room.html

Edit: I just listened to the sound samples linked in the article. Listening to them, I think the neural focus may have something to do so pattern recognition and the ability to quickly tell a sound as harmless or not. While our hearing is not as acute, this skill would have been of great benefit. (And they definitely sound better through LC balanced on 3x gain.)


----------



## Koolpep

xenheadfi said:


> You know there are Cinephiles out there...
> 
> Say the words "70 mm negatives" and watch them drool. Say the name of a well known cinematographer and listen to the wax on about this shot in that film where the lighting was just orgasmic. Who is to say what some people find moving and not moving.
> 
> YMMV and all that. To each their own and all that.




Oh yes. Absolutely. Whatever rocks your boat. No issues with that. I just tried to explain why we are so focused on the audio. 

Others might have of course other hobbies and focus.

Cheers.


----------



## johangrb

jarnopp said:


> Posted this in the other thread, but that seems to be mostly about shipping, so:
> 
> Serial #258 landed and burning in. However, anyone else having serious channel imbalance? Below 9 o'clock very bad and right channel will not go to zero, while left channel does. Always can hear the right channel on 1x and 3x output. Pretty sure that's not in the range of acceptable? Hate to send it away because it sounds so good as is now!


 

 I just had exactly the same thing happened to mine (with balanced out). Used to work perfect until today. I'm guessing pot issues?


----------



## jarnopp

johangrb said:


> I just had exactly the same thing happened to mine (with balanced out). Used to work perfect until today. I'm guessing pot issues?




Should get taken care of just fine - my repaired unit works perfectly after burn in and total 250-300 hours so far:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/796889/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-lifetime-warranty

Good luck!


----------



## dpump

I don't know if anyone remembers but one of the delays in the LC shipping was due to Alex changing volume controls. I wonder if he is replacing the defective volume controls with the same one or is he using a different one? In my many years in audio I have never really seen a defective volume control except for some that had poor tracking. What is happening to these volume controls? Is something breaking internally? Would really like to know.
  
 The other thing Alex said was causing problems was resistors going bad. Again, something I have never really seen happen with modern resistors, just the older carbon ones that drifted in value after years of use.
  
 So far my LC has been fine although I haven't put a ton of hours on it. Just using it to listen to music and not going thru an extended break-in period. Must admit I am getting gun shy every time I turn it on as I keep seeing more and more people having problems.


----------



## doctorjazz

Got one of the early ones, no problems.


----------



## Stillhart

audio addict said:


> I was at the Chicago Head-Fi meet yesterday and Jude attended and brought the Chord Dave and Cavalli Audio had sent a Liquid Gold. While I throughly enjoyed the pairing, I am now sitting at home with the Liquid Carbon paired to my older Meridian 808.2i using a Vero Full-range cable paired with my HE-6 and I am not missing the Gold and the Dave.


 
  
 From what I've heard from others (and what I heard myself), the Liquid Carbon doesn't drive the HE-6 to its full potential.  It's capable but you're leaving performance on the table.  The LAu, drives it better and it sounds better because of it.  
  
 Don't get me wrong... if you're not hearing an improvement from the $600 LC to the $4k LAu, then you're lucky in a way.  I had to send my Crimson back to Cavalli for a bit because I borked something (user error FTL).  When it was gone, I was perfectly content with the LC.  But getting it back, was a nice improvement.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The LC is fantastic, but the better amps are better.  Whether they're worth the $$ to you is a more personal thing.


----------



## Audio Addict

stillhart said:


> From what I've heard from others (and what I heard myself), the Liquid Carbon doesn't drive the HE-6 to its full potential.  It's capable but you're leaving performance on the table.  The LAu, drives it better and it sounds better because of it.
> 
> Don't get me wrong... if you're not hearing an improvement from the $600 LC to the $4k LAu, then you're lucky in a way.  I had to send my Crimson back to Cavalli for a bit because I borked something (user error FTL).  When it was gone, I was perfectly content with the LC.  But getting it back, was a nice improvement.  :basshead:   The LC is fantastic, but the better amps are better.  Whether they're worth the $$ to you is a more personal thing.




I have thought about a lot of different options but for now I am fine with the LC. Maybe some day but right now I still have to deal with all the LH Labs I got carried away with. Really appreciate Larry's designs but I won't discuss the rest.


----------



## aamefford

I like my Crimson and use it almost exclusively. That said, the carbon is outstanding, and every time I listen to it, it just has this little somethin' that I just don't hear anywhere else. Some kind of engagement or something. Yeah, completely subjective, unprovable, poorly described. Still…


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> audio addict said:
> 
> 
> > I was at the Chicago Head-Fi meet yesterday and Jude attended and brought the Chord Dave and Cavalli Audio had sent a Liquid Gold. While I throughly enjoyed the pairing, I am now sitting at home with the Liquid Carbon paired to my older Meridian 808.2i using a Vero Full-range cable paired with my HE-6 and I am not missing the Gold and the Dave.
> ...



Yeah, I was listening to the HE-6 on the LAu tonight, and that combo is really special. The LC performs admirably with the HE-6 (better than you would think!) but the Liquid Gold is in rarified air with that headphone.


----------



## callizer

One week after I received LC back from repair:

I haven't used it much since I have to prepare moving to Melbourne, but now I have a good idea of how LC sounds.

Compared to Hugo alone: the bass hass more presence and mid is thicker, but it loses some airiness. Overall it sounds warmer and more intimate (which I like), but I understand if some folks don't like this change in sound. What I like the most is the bass - it's wonderfully tight and articulate, not muddy in any way.


----------



## zachawry

callizer said:


> One week after I received LC back from repair:
> 
> I haven't used it much since I have to prepare moving to Melbourne, but now I have a good idea of how LC sounds.
> 
> Compared to Hugo alone: the bass hass more presence and mid is thicker, but it loses some airiness. Overall it sounds warmer and more intimate (which I like), but I understand if some folks don't like this change in sound. What I like the most is the bass - it's wonderfully tight and articulate, not muddy in any way.


 

 Just today I was switching a lot between the Hugo alone and the LC.
  
 I basically agree with you. Hugo alone is airier, and clearer; with LC is better bass and macrodynamics. 
  
 Which is preferable basically depends on mood and album.


----------



## nanoevil

Goodies finally came today...I ordered them during Thanksgiving season when I was in the US...shipment came a day late after I left going back to Philippines so it's a long wait for the box to be cleared by customs. 2 months after I finally have them.
  
 listed to my generic RCA and Power cable from my printer one last time before trying out the MAP-1 and MA-3...definitely an improvement!
  
 - Noise floor improved. No more audible noise even if the Hugo light is dark blue and LC is volume is 0
 - better imaging and focus all around
 - mids had more weight and presence
  
 burn in is the hard part...400 hours recommended


----------



## wym2

nanoevil said:


> Goodies finally came today...I ordered them during Thanksgiving season when I was in the US...shipment came a day late after I left going back to Philippines so it's a long wait for the box to be cleared by customs. 2 months after I finally have them.
> 
> listed to my generic RCA and Power cable from my printer one last time before trying out the MAP-1 and MA-3...definitely an improvement!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm using the same cabling, along with others, in my mojo chain (currently switched to MA-2P TRS and MAP-3). I'll be interested to read your impressions when you get to about 300 hrs.
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → MerrillAudio MA- 2P TRS → LC


----------



## Sonic Defender

Damn, the LC sounds like a stinking good value at $600, much like the Mojo. I wish I needed a headphone amp, I think this would be my first choice.


----------



## novaca

Compared someone LC with Violectric V200?


----------



## reddog

The new Cavalli website is up.


----------



## toobuzz

novaca said:


> Compared someone LC with Violectric V200?


 
  
 I have both the V200 and the LC.  I'd be happy to share my thoughts, if that's what you're asking.


----------



## raybone0566

I received my LC yesterday. Spent this entire night listening. Damn this thing has soul. If you don't have the urge to tap your toes when listening to it you probably need medical attention. My violectric v90 is good, but this amp is on another level. I matched it with my 650's, 560's, & lastly the t1's. The t1's were my favorite pairing so far. Really brought the low end out in them. Mainly listened to some Jack Johnson & Walter Trout. I drool thinking about how good that Crimson & glass must sound.


----------



## novaca

toobuzz said:


> I have both the V200 and the LC.  I'd be happy to share my thoughts, if that's what you're asking.


 
 Yes, please could you compare these two apms?
 Thanks


----------



## Peridot

reddog said:


> The new Cavalli website is up.


 
  
"Your search for "carbon" did not yield any results."


----------



## x RELIC x

peridot said:


> [COLOR=000000]"Your search for "carbon" did not yield any results." :eek: [/color]




NO CARBON FOR YOU!!!!!!


----------



## mandrake50

novaca said:


> Yes, please could you compare these two apms?
> Thanks


 

 What is
 <apms>
 please?


----------



## x RELIC x

mandrake50 said:


> What is
> < apms >
> please?




Um, looks like a typo.

apms= *amps*


----------



## warrenpchi

It's shorthand for apmlifiers.


----------



## mandrake50

x relic x said:


> Um, looks like a typo.
> 
> apms= *amps*


 

 Most likely... but the way acronyms are thrown around... ?
 I just thought_  _would ask... maybe even  learn something new _?_


----------



## warrenpchi

koolpep said:


> For the love of music - give us a second run of Liquid Carbon @warrenpchi - you hear us?


 
  
 I hear you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


reddog said:


> The new Cavalli website is up.


 
  
 A soft launch, but yes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll be making an announcement about it soon, as well as a little something about a discount.


----------



## novaca

mandrake50 said:


> What is
> <apms>
> please?


 
  
 Yes, my mistake - typo
 apms = amps = amplifiers


----------



## callizer

@warrenpchi

You're going to refresh the entire lineup of Cavalli amps right? Could you give us a hint where Cavalli Audio are heading in the future? LC really sold me on Cavalli sound - I certainly want to upgrade to higher tier Cavalli amps in the future.


----------



## Cardiiiii

New website looking good.


----------



## BucketInABucket

There's a humming sound I can hear out of the single-ended output which sounds like a b-note. Has anyone else heard the same thing?


----------



## pippen99

bucketinabucket said:


> There's a humming sound I can hear out of the single-ended output which sounds like a b-note. Has anyone else heard the same thing?


 
 I have the same thing.  It's a ground issue.  I run balanced from my Vega.  If I also use the rca unbalanced inputs the hum disappears.


----------



## BucketInABucket

pippen99 said:


> I have the same thing.  It's a ground issue.  I run balanced from my Vega.  If I also use the rca unbalanced inputs the hum disappears.


 
 I run unbalanced from a Stoner Acoustics UD110v2. Is there any way to fix it? It doesn't seem to be there out of the balanced out.


----------



## stuart1927

Folks......did a little review of the Cavali.....apologies, I don't do video reviews so it's a bit amateurish!
  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt_o0wWoLI


----------



## jarnopp

stuart1927 said:


> Folks......did a little review of the Cavali.....apologies, I don't do video reviews so it's a bit amateurish!
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt_o0wWoLI




Nice, thanks! I would say that now, you do do video reviews! :


----------



## stuart1927

Thanks man! appreciate that!
  
 stuart


----------



## warrenpchi

callizer said:


> @warrenpchi
> 
> You're going to refresh the entire lineup of Cavalli amps right?


 
  
 Yes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


callizer said:


> @warrenpchi
> 
> Could you give us a hint where Cavalli Audio are heading in the future?


  

 I really wish I could.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  But beyond the known fact that the Liquid Spark portable is coming soon, I really don't want to say too much right now.  It raises expectations with specific details that may or may not make it into the final products, and that's a bad thing.  That said, I can tell you guys what will not happen...
  
 We will not be releasing successors, for any of our current amps, until - at the very earliest - the Spring of 2017.  And even then, I wouldn't necessarily call them successors as there's going to be a re-alignment of products within our line-up.  This is why I'm encouraging everybody to consider getting in on our final production batches of Crimsons, Glasses, Golds and Lightnings.  These are known quantities, and if you've heard one and liked it, well... just something to consider is all.
  
 We're leaving the ordering period open until the close of AXPONA, so that every body who attends CanJam SoCal 2016 and Ear Gear Expo (at AXPONA 2016) will get a chance to squeeze in a final audition before making a decision.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Okay fine, I'll give you a little hint.  We are *thinking* about bringing a *very* raw prototype to CanJam SoCal for private auditions by appointment only.  If we do end up doing that, I'll post about it in the CanJam SoCal thread.  
  


callizer said:


> @warrenpchi
> 
> LC really sold me on Cavalli sound - I certainly want to upgrade to higher tier Cavalli amps in the future.


  

 Hopefully, with the LC loyalty/upgrade discount, you'll be able to!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


cardiiiii said:


> New website looking good.


 
  
 Thanks!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


stuart1927 said:


> Folks......did a little review of the Cavali.....apologies, I don't do video reviews so it's a bit amateurish!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJt_o0wWoLI


 
  
 Thanks for that!  You were honest, and spoke your mind, what more could anyone ask for?


----------



## zaintachik

Warren, hoping the talks earlier in the thread from Dr. Cavalli about the DAC happens. Personally the top tier cavalli amp can wait but a Cavalli DAC would be a cherry on freaking awesome ice cream. If something remotely happening in that direction just let me know and im willing to wait.


----------



## jarnopp

zaintachik said:


> Warren, hoping the talks earlier in the thread from Dr. Cavalli about the DAC happens. Personally the top tier cavalli amp can wait but a Cavalli DAC would be a cherry on freaking awesome ice cream. If something remotely happening in that direction just let me know and im willing to wait.




+1. It would even be helpful to hear Alex's thoughts on DAC design in general, vis-a-vis R2R and the approach Chord has taken (i.e. Mojo).


----------



## Andy Andy

warrenpchi said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Warren, it deeply saddens me that i am unable to have my hands on the Liquid Carbon. I have a brief chance of auditioning it with Ether C coupled with Mojo, and it was beyond words what Cavalli has achieved here in its price range. I am disgruntled that this happened on the brief period during my absence for college, i was so focused that i withdraw myself from any hobbies that i might have until i graduated. I am sure i spoke for many, please do hear the pleas of your loving and loyal customers.
  
 Make another batch of Liquid Carbon available. I implore you. *sob


----------



## yage

andy andy said:


> Make another batch of Liquid Carbon available. I implore you. *sob


 
  
 Dude, there's one for sale right now in the forums.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/799379/fs-cavalli-liquid-carbon


----------



## Andy Andy

yage said:


> Dude, there's one for sale right now in the forums.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/799379/fs-cavalli-liquid-carbon


 
 It seems he is unwilling to make sale for me due to my location, which is Indonesia. I have connection in the states which can make purchases for me usually, but the seller had opted not to reply to my messages, so, that's that...


----------



## westermac

andy andy said:


> Make another batch of Liquid Carbon available. I implore you. *sob






yage said:


> Dude, there's one for sale right now in the forums.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/799379/fs-cavalli-liquid-carbon




Mint condition Liquid Carbon + transferable lifetime warranty = just as good! I bought mine from the for sale section as well a number of weeks ago, and have seen a number since. If you really want one, and have a little patience (much less than it would take to wait for another production run) you can absolutely get one


----------



## yage

andy andy said:


> It seems he is unwilling to make sale for me due to my location, which is Indonesia. I have connection in the states which can make purchases for me usually, but the seller had opted not to reply to my messages, so, that's that...


 
  
 Oh well, maybe next time...


----------



## zachawry

Does anybody know what email address we should use when making notifications of transfer of ownership?


----------



## westermac

zachawry said:


> Does anybody know what email address we should use when making notifications of transfer of ownership?




Shoot Warren an email at warren@cavalliaudio.com


----------



## GCTD

Since there's a hum/buzz noise out of the SE output, would a RSA/4pin XLR-to-6.35 mm converter plug fix the problem since the balanced outputs are clean?


----------



## AxelCloris

gctd said:


> Since there's a hum/buzz noise out of the SE output, would a RSA/4pin XLR-to-6.35 mm converter plug fix the problem since the balanced outputs are clean?


 

 Do not do this. Please, don't.


----------



## x RELIC x

gctd said:


> Since there's a hum/buzz noise out of the SE output, would a RSA/4pin XLR-to-[COLOR=252525]6.35 mm converter plug fix the problem since the balanced outputs are clean?[/COLOR]




Never. Ever. Feed a single ended headphone from a balanced output. Ever.


----------



## GCTD

axelcloris said:


> Do not do this. Please, don't.


 
  
  


x relic x said:


> Never. Ever. Feed a single ended headphone from a balanced output. Ever.


 
  
 LOL Loud and clear. But that would mean there's a legit reason for RMA here, no? From what I've read in this thread this buzz/hum noise occurs even on 32ohm heaphones.


----------



## musiclvr

gctd said:


> LOL Loud and clear. But that would mean there's a legit reason for RMA here, no? From what I've read in this thread this buzz/hum noise occurs even on 32ohm heaphones.



I think that this buzz/hum is a well known issue with this the SE output into <32ohms. It has been a huge annoyance for me. I own so many headphones that are under 32ohms and I can detect this hum with all of them even in lo gain.The HP's that I use that I can detect this sound with are the Focal Spirit Pro, B&O H6, Phiaton MS500, VModa M100, Cardas EM5813, and Noble Savant. With my 62ohm AKG K712&K702 Annies and MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs no hum detected. Oddly enough I get a completely black background with my 32ohm Grado RS1i. I have a thicker medical grade power cable powering the LC and the buzz does not change with the source being connected or not and becomes more apparent after the LC has warmed up. I get no hum from my Schiit Asgard 2 which cost me substantially less money. So I guess I will just be sure my next headphone will have to be balanced to compliment my Alpha Dog which I purchased specifically for the LC with a Bal. termination. If this hum/buzz issue is something that can be remedied by sending the LC back and paying a fee to correct or lower the amps overall gain; I would gladly do it instantly. CEntrance offered a factory modification on the HiFiM8 Dac/Amp that lowered the overall gain level but allowed for the amp section to be totally black with virtually any impedance. I'm thinking that I will just have to buy the Liquid Spark for my SE low impedance cans/iems and hope that it has a black background.


----------



## mandrake50

musiclvr said:


> I think that this buzz/hum is a well known issue with this the SE output into <32ohms. It has been a huge annoyance for me. I own so many headphones that are under 32ohms and I can detect this hum with all of them even in lo gain.The HP's that I use that I can detect this sound with are the Focal Spirit Pro, B&O H6, Phiaton MS500, VModa M100, Cardas EM5813, and Noble Savant. With my 62ohm AKG K712&K702 Annies and MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs no hum detected. Oddly enough I get a completely black background with my 32ohm Grado RS1i. I have a thicker medical grade power cable powering the LC and the buzz does not change with the source being connected or not and becomes more apparent after the LC has warmed up. I get no hum from my Schiit Asgard 2 which cost me substantially less money. So I guess I will just be sure my next headphone will have to be balanced to compliment my Alpha Dog which I purchased specifically for the LC with a Bal. termination. If this hum/buzz issue is something that can be remedied by sending the LC back and paying a fee to correct or lower the amps overall gain; I would gladly do it instantly. CEntrance offered a factory modification on the HiFiM8 Dac/Amp that lowered the overall gain level but allowed for the amp section to be totally black with virtually any impedance. I'm thinking that I will just have to buy the Liquid Spark for my SE low impedance cans/iems and hope that it has a black background.


 

 Are you getting the hum only when driving the LC balanced from your DAC using the SE out? I noticed that I never had any noise or hum when driving the LC SE. I never had any noise using the Balanced output regardless of the input configuration. Beyond that, when I leave the SE inputs connected to the DAC, but select the Balanced inputs, there is no noise on the SE output.
  
 It seems that this is a grounding problem. I believe that the shield/ground connection for the balanced input is not connected to chassis ground. I thought that this could be a cable problem due to anodizing on the shell of the balanced cables that I was using. I got some cables that had shells that are not anodized, but this did not help.
  
 A simple test would be to connect some patch cables from the SE out on your DAC to the SE in on the LC. From my experience this fixes the problem, even if only one RCA to RCA cable is connected.
 Even simpler would be to just connect a wire from the shell of the RCA outs on the DAC to the shell of the RCA inputs on the LC. I think just touching the wire on both ends would tell you whether this is a fix. If so, a more permanent solution can be fashioned.
  
 BTW, if you read back in the thread a bit, you will read that this solution has worked for several people. It would be much quicker than hoping for a hardware change that may never come.


----------



## Dave74

mandrake50 said:


> Are you getting the hum only when driving the LC balanced from your DAC using the SE out? I noticed that I never had any noise or hum when driving the LC SE. I never had any noise using the Balanced output regardless of the input configuration. Beyond that, when I leave the SE inputs connected to the DAC, but select the Balanced inputs, there is no noise on the SE output.
> 
> It seems that this is a grounding problem. I believe that the shield/ground connection for the balanced input is not connected to chassis ground. I thought that this could be a cable problem due to anodizing on the shell of the balanced cables that I was using. I got some cables that had shells that are not anodized, but this did not help.
> 
> ...


 

 I get the SE hum when using my Hugo RCA(SE) output to LC.  I have never tried a balanced source as I no longer have one. This now is making me wonder if it is due to the Hugo being battery powered (no path to ground) so it is creating a ground loop?  Unfortunately I no longer have a desktop DAC so I can't test this out.  
 I do not have a hum with my Sustain84 amp though and that is strictly a SE amplifier also using the Hugo as a DAC.


----------



## musiclvr

mandrake50 said:


> Are you getting the hum only when driving the LC balanced from your DAC using the SE out? I noticed that I never had any noise or hum when driving the LC SE. I never had any noise using the Balanced output regardless of the input configuration. Beyond that, when I leave the SE inputs connected to the DAC, but select the Balanced inputs, there is no noise on the SE output.
> 
> It seems that this is a grounding problem. I believe that the shield/ground connection for the balanced input is not connected to chassis ground. I thought that this could be a cable problem due to anodizing on the shell of the balanced cables that I was using. I got some cables that had shells that are not anodized, but this did not help.
> 
> ...



Oh okay, wow thank you mandrake50! I hadn't been aware of these simple solutions at all. My dac is not a fully balanced one so I will get to trying out your recommendations. When connecting the wire to the rca outs of both the LC and Dac should I connect a separate wire for the rca L and R?


----------



## shultzee

The only configuration I got a hum was balanced in and se out.  Very slight hum  with the volume turned low.   Balance in/out, and se in/out was dead silent for me even using a very sensitive IEM.


----------



## mandrake50

musiclvr said:


> Oh okay, wow thank you mandrake50! I hadn't been aware of these simple solutions at all. My dac is not a fully balanced one so I will get to trying out your recommendations. When connecting the wire to the rca outs of both the LC and Dac should I connect a separate wire for the rca L and R?


 

 It is just a matter of getting the ground potential of the DAC and LC at the same level. It only takes one wire to do that. A simple wire with alligator clips on both ends clipped to the shell of the RCAs on both the DAC and LC  should work... if this is the problem.


----------



## pippen99

mandrake50 said:


> It is just a matter of getting the ground potential of the DAC and LC at the same level. It only takes one wire to do that. A simple wire with alligator clips on both ends clipped to the shell of the RCAs on both the DAC and LC  should work... if this is the problem.


 
 I​ am using the RCA outs on my DAC to a second amplifier.  How can I solve this?


----------



## mandrake50

musiclvr said:


> Oh okay, wow thank you mandrake50! I hadn't been aware of these simple solutions at all. My dac is not a fully balanced one so I will get to trying out your recommendations. When connecting the wire to the rca outs of both the LC and Dac should I connect a separate wire for the rca L and R?


 

 One thing to know... you mention your DAC is not "*FULLY" *balanced. Does it have balanced outputs? Are you connecting to the LC balanced to balanced... and using SE out?
  
 If you are using the _SE out _from your DAC to _SE in _on the LC... the thing I suggest may not help in the least. Specifically, in my experience, this worked when using *Balanced OUT* from the DAC to *Balanced* *IN* on the LC and using the *SE OUT* to power headphones or IEMs. If you are using SE OUT to SE IN... the grounds should be already bound together.


----------



## mandrake50

pippen99 said:


> I​ am using the RCA outs on my DAC to a second amplifier.  How can I solve this?


 

 What "second Amplifier"?? My comments were only applicable to the Liquid Carbon. No way I can comment on other configurations without knowing *much* more.


----------



## zachawry

dave74 said:


> I get the SE hum when using my Hugo RCA(SE) output to LC.  I have never tried a balanced source as I no longer have one. This now is making me wonder if it is due to the Hugo being battery powered (no path to ground) so it is creating a ground loop?  Unfortunately I no longer have a desktop DAC so I can't test this out.
> I do not have a hum with my Sustain84 amp though and that is strictly a SE amplifier also using the Hugo as a DAC.


 

 FYI, I used a Hugo RCA to LC no problem.


----------



## musiclvr

mandrake50 said:


> One thing to know... you mention your DAC is not "*FULLY"* balanced. Does it have balanced outputs? Are you connecting to the LC balanced to balanced... and using SE out?
> 
> If you are using the _SE out_ from your DAC to _SE in_ on the LC... the thing I suggest may not help in the least. Specifically, in my experience, this worked when using *Balanced OUT* from the DAC to *Balanced* *IN* on the LC and using the *SE OUT* to power headphones or IEMs. If you are using SE OUT to SE IN... the grounds should be already bound together.



Ah darn it! Yeah I'm using the PeachTree Dac-iTx which is only SE. Back to the drawing board I guess.....


----------



## pippen99

mandrake50 said:


> What "second Amplifier"?? My comments were only applicable to the Liquid Carbon. No way I can comment on other configurations without knowing *much* more.


 
 DAC Auralic Vega feeding Liquid Carbon via balanced XLR cables/ feeding Woo WA5 via RCA  cables.  When I unhook the WA5 and feed the LC via RCA the hum ceases.  I want to know how to ground the units safely keeping both amplifiers hooked up to the Vega.


----------



## mandrake50

pippen99 said:


> DAC Auralic Vega feeding Liquid Carbon via balanced XLR cables/ feeding Woo WA5 via RCA  cables.  When I unhook the WA5 and feed the LC via RCA the hum ceases.  I want to know how to ground the units safely keeping both amplifiers hooked up to the Vega.


 

 With three devices, things become more complex. I would try clipping a wire from the Auralic to a chassis ground (RCA shell) on the LC. The hum has nothing to do with the Woo,,, just the difference in grounds between the Auralic and the LC. I bet, if you connect both the SE AND Balanced connections from the Auralic to  the LC... but select the Balanced inputs on the LC... but use SE OUT, there is no hum. I am not positive, but I think the WOO does not matter in this scenario. The DAC and LC have to be grounded together.
  
 (EDIT):
 If you just want to do a quick and dirty test, get a piece of insulated wire with ends stripped back a few MM. Listen in the configuration where you hear the hum. Touch one end to the ground (shell) of the RCA SE connector on the Auralic and the Other end to the same on either of the RCA SE inputs on the LC. If the um changes ...hopefully goes away, you know what you need to do. Figure out a more permanent connection and be happy. The complicating factor is only what happens to the WOO... but it is already bound to ground on the Auralic... if tying that to the LC works with the bare wire lets everything work fine, you are golden.  Give it a shot, I really can't see how you can hurt anything.


----------



## pippen99

mandrake50 said:


> With three devices, things become more complex. I would try clipping a wire from the Auralic to a chassis ground (RCA shell) on the LC. The hum has nothing to do with the Woo,,, just the difference in grounds between the Auralic and the LC. I bet, if you connect both the SE AND Balanced connections from the Auralic to  the LC... but select the Balanced inputs on the LC... but use SE OUT, there is no hum. I am not positive, but I think the WOO does not matter in this scenario. The DAC and LC have to be grounded together.


 
 My concern is trying to create the ground with the WA5 connected to the Vega.  I already know the WA5 has nothing to do with the hum.  But if I do what you suggest I am creating a three way connection with all units.  Now this might be exciting in another context but is it wise in an electrical context?


----------



## Dave74

zachawry said:


> FYI, I used a Hugo RCA to LC no problem.


 

 Ok.  Thanks. I have been mostly using the balanced out anyways, and I have no issues with it.


----------



## mandrake50

musiclvr said:


> Ah darn it! Yeah I'm using the PeachTree Dac-iTx which is only SE. Back to the drawing board I guess.....


 

 Many times, if not most, low level 60 cycle hum is due to grounding problems. referred to as ground loops. Trying things like reversing the line plug, or using a cheater plug to lift ground from the third pin ground can be effective, depending on the situation. In car installations I have done, using ground isolation connectors or transformers to isolate power has been required. If using a power brick, sometime just changing to a different one can fix things. In any case, more than likely it is something peculiar to your installation that is the problem. The LC has had some issues, but from what Alex posted back a ways major issues that they have seen are not the things that create low level hum...


----------



## mandrake50

pippen99 said:


> My concern is trying to create the ground with the WA5 connected to the Vega.  I already know the WA5 has nothing to do with the hum.  But if I do what you suggest I am creating a three way connection with all units.  Now this might be exciting in another context but is it wise in an electrical context?


 
  


pippen99 said:


> My concern is trying to create the ground with the WA5 connected to the Vega.  I already know the WA5 has nothing to do with the hum.  But if I do what you suggest I am creating a three way connection with all units.  Now this might be exciting in another context but is it wise in an electrical context?


 

  I think that it should not be a problem. But I have not analyzed the circuitry in the three devices not taken any measurements. If it were me in your situation, I would try it.  There should be no reason for the ground potentials to be so different that it would hurt anything. Of course there may be exceptions without a complete analysis... as I said, just going by my experience of 40 or so years with audio gear... I would try it. Of course, if you want absolute guarantees , there are none. Still, in my estimation you should be just fine with testing using the wire that I mentioned...


----------



## rocketron

Can I just say thank you to Dr Cavalli for such I fine amp.
Paired up with HD800S balanced and fed from Hugo the sound in my opinion is far better than it has any right to be for the money. 
Can only wait and see what the Spark brings for portable use. 
I'm loving it


----------



## negatron81

Hi Guys, I'm a new LC owner for the last week and have loved the power and dynamic sound this amp brings. 

I've been driving Lcd-xc via the balanced out since I got the amp and have been very happy with it. 
. Today I tried my shure se846 attached to the s.e output and am getting a hum when volume is low (near zero) I've tried changing power cords, attaching rcas to the dac 's rca outs, removing /re attaching the xlr cables. Nothing works... Hum is still present if it's just the LC and no input cables... 

Any ideas on further fixes? Or should I contact our friends at Cavalli?


----------



## shultzee

negatron81 said:


> Hi Guys, I'm a new LC owner for the last week and have loved the power and dynamic sound this amp brings.
> 
> I've been driving Lcd-xc via the balanced out since I got the amp and have been very happy with it.
> . Today I tried my shure se846 attached to the s.e output and am getting a hum when volume is low (near zero) I've tried changing power cords, attaching rcas to the dac 's rca outs, removing /re attaching the xlr cables. Nothing works... Hum is still present if it's just the LC and no input cables...
> ...


 

 My experience was Bal. in/ Bal. out no hum,   SE in/ SE out no hum,   Bal. in , SE out there was a hum at very low volume.   I believe this is inherent to the amp.   Also congrats.  Its a great sounding amp.


----------



## Serenitty

So I finally had an opportunity to try the HE-6 off the LC at a meet this past weekend in DC.  I had been curious if the amp could drive the phones well since Dr. Cavalli announced quite a few months ago that the amp was actually more like 2.8 watts balanced instead of the originally announced 1.5W.
  
 So I tried a set of balanced plugged HE-6's and cranked the amp up.  I got up to about 90% on the pot and it was sounding pretty good, well, loud at least.  I was pretty much chalking that up as a failure when Sheldaze reminded me of the gain switch (with my Ether C's, I'm at 9o'clock on the volume pot on 1x gain, I've never used the 3x, I forgot it was there).  So I borrowed the headphones again, and got it up to thumping loudness around 65-70% of the volume.
  
 The good news?  The phones were loud and the bass clear without any clipping or other distortion that I could hear.
  
 The bad news?  The meet was so loud that I haven't got a clue if the rest of the music actually sounded good.  I certainly could hear/feel the low end, and the mids and uppers were plenty loud, but were they precise and clean?  Not a clue.
  
 The only phones I was able to compare successfully were my Ether C's vs a pair of LCD-XC's.


----------



## Audio Addict

serenitty said:


> So I finally had an opportunity to try the HE-6 off the LC at a meet this past weekend in DC.  I had been curious if the amp could drive the phones well since Dr. Cavalli announced quite a few months ago that the amp was actually more like 2.8 watts balanced instead of the originally announced 1.5W.
> 
> So I tried a set of balanced plugged HE-6's and cranked the amp up.  I got up to about 90% on the pot and it was sounding pretty good, well, loud at least.  I was pretty much chalking that up as a failure when Sheldaze reminded me of the gain switch (with my Ether C's, I'm at 9o'clock on the volume pot on 1x gain, I've never used the 3x, I forgot it was there).  So I borrowed the headphones again, and got it up to thumping loudness around 65-70% of the volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What was the source?  I have found the source output has a fairly large impact on the LC.  A straight fixed line out works best from the source.


----------



## jarnopp

serenitty said:


> So I finally had an opportunity to try the HE-6 off the LC at a meet this past weekend in DC.  I had been curious if the amp could drive the phones well since Dr. Cavalli announced quite a few months ago that the amp was actually more like 2.8 watts balanced instead of the originally announced 1.5W.
> 
> So I tried a set of balanced plugged HE-6's and cranked the amp up.  I got up to about 90% on the pot and it was sounding pretty good, well, loud at least.  I was pretty much chalking that up as a failure when Sheldaze reminded me of the gain switch (with my Ether C's, I'm at 9o'clock on the volume pot on 1x gain, I've never used the 3x, I forgot it was there).  So I borrowed the headphones again, and got it up to thumping loudness around 65-70% of the volume.
> 
> ...




I hope you get the chance for a proper listen. I'm enjoying the HE-6 balanced driven by LC with the Mojo (3v fixed out) as a source. 9-11 o'clock on 3x gain with modern compressed music and 11:30-2:30 with more dynamic classical music. Sometimes I lower the Mojo line out a few clicks (to about 2.2v) to get more usable volume control with rock/pop.


----------



## Serenitty

audio addict said:


> What was the source?  I have found the source output has a fairly large impact on the LC.  A straight fixed line out works best from the source.


 

 Ak120ii "Line out"...


----------



## Audio Addict

serenitty said:


> Ak120ii "Line out"...


 
  
 I don't know much about the AK's so if it is a fixed line out, it should have provided a good source input for the LC.


----------



## swspiers

I'm not sure if I'll have time to do a comprehensive review, but I can post a couple of impressions.

After owning this amplifier for a while now, I think I'm really close to calling it "endgame". The combination of this amplifier, with the balanced out of my Benchmark DAC, along with my Alpha Primes and 400i's, is as good as I have ever heard. When I make that statement, I am including many of the high-end speaker systems I've heard over the years. So far, I feel like every detail in the music that I want to hear, is clearly there. I also have a feeling that getting any better than this is going to cost serious money. True, I may get a multi-bit DAC somewhere down the road, but I'm certainly in no hurry.

My congratulations to the Cavalli team: this is the 1st amplifier I've ever heard, in any system, that I am 100% satisfied with. It sounds like an amazing accomplishment to me, and might actually take me out of the running for purchasing a more powerful amp. It just sounds and feels that darn good.


----------



## d1sturb3d

^ truly reflects what I feel..this is it for me..I know my limits on spending money on head-fi gears..so thank you to Cavalli Audio for creating this lovable amp for us.
  
 Balance is the way to go 
  
 DC-1 -> LC -> HE-560
  
  
 *wifey was listening to Spotify, liked the one playing (Stitches) and I got myself a copy and played it through my setup, my heart jumped on the first slam of the drums..mind you I listened to it a couple of times in the phone, laptop, iems so I was caught off guard, the slam has really weight to it and didn't expect it..maybe the blackness of the background also helped..anyway just rambling.


----------



## paulpthcom

The old DAC thread got discontinued and I was wondering if there were some new options out there that I have missed.
  
 Here's what I want.
  
 Requirements:
  

Balanced (I know its not supposed to matter much but the heart wants what the heart wants)
Physically close in size to the LC (Not the Gungnir)
Modern USB input, at least async 24/192, preferably something like an XMOS
Sold by a company with a US presence
Doesn't try to sell $500+ USB cables
  
 Nice to have:

Digital volume control
Not ridiculously expensive
No headphone amp component 
  
 So far the only ones I've found that are pretty close are:

Violectric V800 with XMOS board
Emotive Stealth DC-1
Oppo HA-1
Teac UD-50x
DacMagic Plus
  
  
 Other than the price, the Violectric is probably the closest, but man that price hurts. Am I missing any?


----------



## musiclvr

paulpthcom said:


> The old DAC thread got discontinued and I was wondering if there were some new options out there that I have missed.
> 
> Here's what I want.
> 
> ...



I think the V800 V2 would be my choice given your criteria. It also helps that it is currently being offered on Massdrop for $700.00!


----------



## paulpthcom

musiclvr said:


> I think the V800 V2 would be my choice given your criteria. It also helps that it is currently being offered on Massdrop for $700.00!


 

 Yeah, the problem is I'd need to upgrade the USB chip to the XMOS board which adds another ~$200 or so (the current chip requires a driver on OS X which I just won't install). At that price I'd probably go for a refurb Oppo HA-1 which has that cool looking display.


----------



## musiclvr

paulpthcom said:


> Yeah, the problem is I'd need to upgrade the USB chip to the XMOS board which adds another ~$200 or so (the current chip requires a driver on OS X which I just won't install). At that price I'd probably go for a refurb Oppo HA-1 which has that cool looking display.



Oh I see. Well that takes one choice off your list:thumbsup_tone2:


----------



## Stillhart

paulpthcom said:


> Yeah, the problem is I'd need to upgrade the USB chip to the XMOS board which adds another ~$200 or so (the current chip requires a driver on OS X which I just won't install). At that price I'd probably go for a refurb Oppo HA-1 which has that cool looking display.


 
  
 The HA-1 is a DAC/Amp combo so you're payng $1200 for a DAC plus an amp you won't use and a flashy display that doesn't contribute much if you're not using the full combo.  If you wanted a similar DAC to the one in the HA-1, the Audio-GD NFB-1DAC is significantly cheaper and should sound about the same.  It's not an American company but it's got an XMOS interface, balanced, yadda yadda.  
  
 Just throwing it out there.  I'm a value-oriented kind of guy and it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to pay $1200 for a DAC (plus stuff I won't use) vs $650 for the same DAC chip in a standalone unit.  And FWIW, I find that Audio-GD has one of the better Sabre DAC implementations I've heard.  So in my humble opinion, it's also a better dac for half the price.  
  
 I realize though that we all have our own value preferences so good luck with whatever you choose!


----------



## paulpthcom

stillhart said:


> The HA-1 is a DAC/Amp combo so you're payng $1200 for a DAC plus an amp you won't use and a flashy display that doesn't contribute much if you're not using the full combo.  If you wanted a similar DAC to the one in the HA-1, the Audio-GD NFB-1DAC is significantly cheaper and should sound about the same.  It's not an American company but it's got an XMOS interface, balanced, yadda yadda.
> 
> Just throwing it out there.  I'm a value-oriented kind of guy and it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to pay $1200 for a DAC (plus stuff I won't use) vs $650 for the same DAC chip in a standalone unit.  And FWIW, I find that Audio-GD has one of the better Sabre DAC implementations I've heard.  So in my humble opinion, it's also a better dac for half the price.
> 
> I realize though that we all have our own value preferences so good luck with whatever you choose!


 

 Thanks for the suggestions, the HA-1 is actually $950 as a refurb, and probably < $850 used. But yeah still quite a bit.
  
 I've had an Audio-GD in the past, other than the awful volume changing buttons, no complaints. But I've heard some recent troubling talk about their QA + lack of usable warranty support and they've been kind of out of my list of candidates. I'd consider buying a NFB28 (since that one seems to have the same DAC + volume control + a and isn't much more) used from someone in the US, but just not risking getting a dud and having to deal with that.
  
 The Gustard X12 via Massdrop is something I could see myself trying as well, seems at least spec wise to be a better value than the NFB-1DAC.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

paulpthcom said:


> Yeah, the problem is I'd need to upgrade the USB chip to the XMOS board which adds another ~$200 or so (the current chip requires a driver on OS X which I just won't install). At that price I'd probably go for a refurb Oppo HA-1 which has that cool looking display.


 
  
 Do you have a Mac?  If you do optical might be an option depending on which Mac...


----------



## Jozurr

paulpthcom said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, the HA-1 is actually $950 as a refurb, and probably < $850 used. But yeah still quite a bit.
> 
> I've had an Audio-GD in the past, other than the awful volume changing buttons, no complaints. But I've heard some recent troubling talk about their QA + lack of usable warranty support and they've been kind of out of my list of candidates. I'd consider buying a NFB28 (since that one seems to have the same DAC + volume control + a and isn't much more) used from someone in the US, but just not risking getting a dud and having to deal with that.
> 
> The Gustard X12 via Massdrop is something I could see myself trying as well, seems at least spec wise to be a better value than the NFB-1DAC.


 
  
 The HA-1 is one of the brightest DAC's ive heard. To a point where I couldn't listen to the HE-560 with them and had to sell it. Got the DAC-19 and it is SO much better. I'd really suggest you reconsider the HA-1 for the DAC. Gustard X12 has great reviews indeed.


----------



## x RELIC x

jozurr said:


> The HA-1 is one of the brightest DAC's ive heard. To a point where I couldn't listen to the HE-560 with them and had to sell it. *Got the DAC-19 and it is SO much better*. I'd really suggest you reconsider the HA-1 for the DAC. Gustard X12 has great reviews indeed.




I can agree with this 100%.


----------



## paulpthcom

buttuglyjeff said:


> Do you have a Mac?  If you do optical might be an option depending on which Mac...


 
 I do and it is, just feels silly to spend that kind of $ and getting a "useless" port (though I've certainly done sillier things).
  


jozurr said:


> The HA-1 is one of the brightest DAC's ive heard. To a point where I couldn't listen to the HE-560 with them and had to sell it. Got the DAC-19 and it is SO much better. I'd really suggest you reconsider the HA-1 for the DAC. Gustard X12 has great reviews indeed.


 
 Thanks for the warning, will cross it off the list. The DAC-19 is interesting, have been curious to find out what R2R is all about.


----------



## coastal1

paulpthcom said:


> The old DAC thread got discontinued and I was wondering if there were some new options out there that I have missed.
> 
> Here's what I want.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm also considering a standalone DAC and have similar requirements.  Currently using the iFI Micro as DAC.  I have no complaints with it, just never tried a better DAC.  Seems like the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 is quite popular with the LC.  It's a good bit larger than the LC, though perhaps not a deal breaker for me.  Would the DC-1 be a significant upgrade from the Micro?
  
 Also considering an alternative to my Toshiba laptop as a music player.  May just go with a better laptop, but any suggestions on a more compact music player?  Budget would be $1k-$1500 depending on whether the music player has it's own DAC that's at least equal to the Micro.  Do not need streaming capability or CD from a music player, would prefer ability to connect to external hard drive, large internal storage would be an option.


----------



## aamefford

jozurr said:


> The HA-1 is one of the brightest DAC's ive heard. To a point where I couldn't listen to the HE-560 with them and had to sell it. Got the DAC-19 and it is SO much better. I'd really suggest you reconsider the HA-1 for the DAC. Gustard X12 has great reviews indeed.







x relic x said:


> I can agree with this 100%.




I owned the HA-1 and Bifrost Uber at the same time. They were virtually indistinguishable when played through the same amp. Compared to my current audio-gd Dac-19, the HA-1 is significantly brighter to my ears. Fwiw...


----------



## rigo

Looks like this meets all requirements except US.


----------



## paulpthcom

rigo said:


> Looks like this meets all requirements except US.


 

 Yes it does, but just trying to see if I missed any options.


----------



## yage

coastal1 said:


> Would the DC-1 be a significant upgrade from the Micro?


 
  
 I've not heard the Micro, but the DC-1 is smooth sounding, almost to a fault. While it gets most things right, you won't quite get the sense of performers in an acoustic space with the Emotiva.
  
 One interesting option is the Pono Player. You could run it in balanced mode to the Carbon and Surf Cables sells a pair of 3.5 mm to XLR that would do the trick. Ayre Acoustics of Boulder, CO did most of the circuit design.


----------



## doctorjazz

I use the Pono lawyer (single ended) with the LC ask the time, makes a great source imo. Well get balanced cable to use for line out one of these days, but sounds great as is (using the LC less, though, since I got balanced cables for the acs Encore ciem, more than enough power. Still a good amp for the HEK). Pono can be had for $250-$300


----------



## paulpthcom

What about the Balanced TEACs, anyone try one with the LC?
  
 I'm leaning towards the V800, I know its super expensive but light their philosophy and seems to have reasonable set of features I'd want.


----------



## jarnopp

paulpthcom said:


> What about the Balanced TEACs, anyone try one with the LC?
> 
> I'm leaning towards the V800, I know its super expensive but light their philosophy and seems to have reasonable set of features I'd want.




I will throw this out just as a suggestion, even though it doesn't meet all your requirements. When I was waiting for my LC, I was looking for a similarly priced dac with balanced outputs, and hopefully R2R. When the Chord mojo was announced, I stumbled on that thread and finally took a chance. It is pretty amazing and worth at least an audition, I think. Balanced does not matter (so much, at all?) with the LC, it has digital volume control, and they do have a dealer presence in the US. As a benefit, you get a great portable dac/amp also.


----------



## SupaFuzz

jarnopp said:


> I will throw this out just as a suggestion, even though it doesn't meet all your requirements. When I was waiting for my LC, I was looking for a similarly priced dac with balanced outputs, and hopefully R2R. When the Chord mojo was announced, I stumbled on that thread and finally took a chance. It is pretty amazing and worth at least an audition, I think. Balanced does not matter (so much, at all?) with the LC, it has digital volume control, and they do have a dealer presence in the US. As a benefit, you get a great portable dac/amp also.


 

 I can highly recommend that Mojo!


----------



## faran

supafuzz said:


> I can highly recommend that Mojo!




I second that! Or is it third that?!? Either way, you won't regret it.


----------



## Peridot

I bought the Emotiva DAC to partner with the LC.
  
 As with others I though that balanced all the way must be better. But, as Alex has been at pains to point out at various times in this thread it really makes no difference whatsoever at the input - nada - nothing.
  
 I've tried both connections and listened very very very carefully ... there is no discernable difference. 
  
 Now, I may have cloth ears, but many other LC owners have reported the same thing so I do believe it to be true.
  
 I'm happy with my Emotiva, but if I was choosing all over again, I'd go for the Mojo.


----------



## bflat

LC question - I am using balanced out to IEM via RSA connector. At zero position of the volume pot, I still hear audio. It's faint, but clearly noticeable. No issue with full size headphones via XLR balanced. Is this normal?


----------



## negatron81

Hey guys, I sent an email to cavalli via the website regarding my hum issue after I tried all the suggestions to mitigate and its still there 

But still no reply after a few days still no reply, any other ideas how to reach them?


----------



## Stillhart

negatron81 said:


> Hey guys, I sent an email to cavalli via the website regarding my hum issue after I tried all the suggestions to mitigate and its still there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can email Alex directly at alex@cavalliaudio.com.
  
 EDIT - BTW, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Mojo myself.  Many folks whose ears I trust are saying it's the real deal.  I'm looking forward to checking it out at Canjam in a couple weeks.  It should make a nice complement to my LC (DAC-19 is on my Liquid Crimson now).


----------



## musiclvr

negatron81 said:


> Hey guys, I sent an email to cavalli via the website regarding my hum issue after I tried all the suggestions to mitigate and its still there
> 
> But still no reply after a few days still no reply, any other ideas how to reach them?



I am looking forward to what the response is from Cavalli Audio as well. Please do report when you get a reply as I have the same issue.


----------



## aamefford

Y





bflat said:


> LC question - I am using balanced out to IEM via RSA connector. At zero position of the volume pot, I still hear audio. It's faint, but clearly noticeable. No issue with full size headphones via XLR balanced. Is this normal?



Yes. I hear it SE with my ciems. Also balanced with my Oppo PM-1's. I haven't tried with my Ether C yet.


----------



## x RELIC x

stillhart said:


> You can email Alex directly at alex@cavalliaudio.com.
> 
> EDIT - BTW, I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Mojo myself.  Many folks whose ears I trust are saying it's the real deal.  I'm looking forward to checking it out at Canjam in a couple weeks.  It should make a nice complement to my LC (DAC-19 is on my Liquid Crimson now).




You should be happy with it. I know I am.


----------



## bflat

aamefford said:


> Y
> Yes. I hear it SE with my ciems. Also balanced with my Oppo PM-1's. I haven't tried with my Ether C yet.




Thanks! I thought I remember reading something on that. Of course the lifetime warranty helps too.


----------



## Stillhart

x relic x said:


> You should be happy with it. I know I am.


 
  
 Yep, you're one of those trusted ears.  You, @AxelCloris, @Hansotek, @jude, and others I can't recall off the top of my head all rave about it.  And like I said, my Carbon needs a DAC.  As this won't be my primary setup, size and price come into play and the Mojo seems to fit the bill nicely.  And looking to the future, it seems like it'd be an ideal pairing with the Liquid Spark as well.


----------



## Peridot

stillhart said:


> Yep, you're one of those trusted ears.  You, @AxelCloris, @Hansotek, @jude, and others I can't recall off the top of my head all rave about it.  And like I said, my Carbon needs a DAC.  As this won't be my primary setup, size and price come into play and the Mojo seems to fit the bill nicely.  And looking to the future, it seems like it'd be an ideal pairing with the Liquid Spark as well.


 
  
 If CanJam is anything like the last headphone show I attended, you'll have no problem hearing the Mojo. The vast majority of high-end exhibitors were driving their products from Mojo or Hugo sources. That alone says a lot about its abilities.
  
 Good point on future pairing with the Spark too. I know a lot of folk would like Cavalli to produce a DAC. Personally I'd like them to stay focused on their real strengths in the amplifier field, and leave the DACs to Chord.


----------



## coastal1

supafuzz said:


> I can highly recommend that Mojo!


  

  


peridot said:


> If CanJam is anything like the last headphone show I attended, you'll have no problem hearing the Mojo. The vast majority of high-end exhibitors were driving their products from Mojo or Hugo sources. That alone says a lot about its abilities.
> 
> Good point on future pairing with the Spark too. I know a lot of folk would like Cavalli to produce a DAC. Personally I'd like them to stay focused on their real strengths in the amplifier field, and leave the DACs to Chord.


 
  
 Has anyone compared to the Mojo to the iFi Micro?  I currently have the Micro.  Seems like the Mojo is more popular, but since I already have the Micro, seems like the Mojo would be a sidegrade and not worth selling the Micro to get the Mojo.


----------



## Hansotek

coastal1 said:


> Has anyone compared to the Mojo to the iFi Micro?  I currently have the Micro.  Seems like the Mojo is more popular, but since I already have the Micro, seems like the Mojo would be a sidegrade and not worth selling the Micro to get the Mojo.


 
  
 I can't compare to the Micro, but I'd be willing to bet somebody has in the Mojo thread. FWIW, I enjoy it far more than the similarly-priced Bifrost Multibit. I've used the Mojo extensively with the Carbon, Crimson and Gold, and it is just fantastic with all three of them.


----------



## Stillhart

coastal1 said:


> Has anyone compared to the Mojo to the iFi Micro?  I currently have the Micro.  Seems like the Mojo is more popular, but since I already have the Micro, seems like the Mojo would be a sidegrade and not worth selling the Micro to get the Mojo.


 
  
 I haven't heard either, but I've read plenty about both.  If I was considering buying one of the two, I'd get the Mojo easily.  If I already had the ifi, I don't know that the improvement would be worth the money/effort.  I'd take Dave's advice and check the Mojo thread for more info.
  
 Unrelated:  I just moved to a new city and I've been without any of my desktop gear for a week now.  Really wishing I had something like the Mojo right now.  The Crimson sitting in a box over there is just taunting me!!!  I should probably get off Head-fi and unpack some more...


----------



## sheldaze

hansotek said:


> I can't compare to the Micro, but I'd be willing to bet somebody has in the Mojo thread. FWIW, *I enjoy it far more than the similarly-priced Bifrost Multibit*. I've used the Mojo extensively with the Carbon, Crimson and Gold, and it is just fantastic with all three of them.


 
 I just came to that same conclusion...


----------



## Hansotek

sheldaze said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I can't compare to the Micro, but I'd be willing to bet somebody has in the Mojo thread. FWIW, *I enjoy it far more than the similarly-priced Bifrost Multibit*. I've used the Mojo extensively with the Carbon, Crimson and Gold, and it is just fantastic with all three of them.
> ...


 
  
 Right?? Bimby seems a little flat and boring, in comparison. I find it tough to go back. I planned on having one for work and one for home, but I've just been carting the Mojo back and forth!


----------



## musiclvr

hansotek said:


> I can't compare to the Micro, but I'd be willing to bet somebody has in the Mojo thread. FWIW, I enjoy it far more than the similarly-priced Bifrost Multibit. I've used the Mojo extensively with the Carbon, Crimson and Gold, and it is just fantastic with all three of them.


 

Well I just cancelled my Bifrost Multibit order and am now going to do a little more research on the Chord Mojo to pair with my LC. I just now realized that I would probably like the fact that I can have a top tier dac that I can travel with and also use as a Liquid Spark source too!


----------



## Hansotek

musiclvr said:


> Well I just cancelled my Bifrost Multibit order and am now going to do a little more research on the Chord Mojo to pair with my LC. I just now realized that I would probably like the fact that I can have a top tier dac that I can travel with and also use as a Liquid Spark source too!


 
  
 Yeah, the portability is really the icing on the cake. FWIW, I found @Currawong's video review to be pretty helpful when I was researching the purchase. He answered pretty much everything I wanted to know about the product and his observations proved to be pretty much spot on across the board. Can't wait to pair it up with the Spark. A fully portable, reference quality system? Yes, please!


----------



## coastal1

stillhart said:


> I haven't heard either, but I've read plenty about both.  If I was considering buying one of the two, I'd get the Mojo easily.  If I already had the ifi, I don't know that the improvement would be worth the money/effort.  I'd take Dave's advice and check the Mojo thread for more info.
> 
> Unrelated:  I just moved to a new city and I've been without any of my desktop gear for a week now.  Really wishing I had something like the Mojo right now.  The Crimson sitting in a box over there is just taunting me!!!  I should probably get off Head-fi and unpack some more...


 
  
 Thanks, definitely people in the Mojo thread favoring it over the Micro.  Some people in the Micro thread naturally favoring it over the Mojo.  Seems like the Mojo is more popular, but doesn't seem like enough reason to switch. I might switch to try a standalone DAC as while I love the idea of tranportability, I hardly ever use the Micro that way.  Maybe when it gets a little warmer I'll take it out to the deck.


----------



## wym2

coastal1 said:


> Thanks, definitely people in the Mojo thread favoring it over the Micro.  Some people in the Micro thread naturally favoring it over the Mojo.  Seems like the Mojo is more popular, but doesn't seem like enough reason to switch. I might switch to try a standalone DAC as while I love the idea of tranportability, I hardly ever use the Micro that way.  Maybe when it gets a little warmer I'll take it out to the deck.


 
  
  
 Mojo works outstanding both mobile and desktop…takes 1 minute to switch either way...
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC


----------



## Stillhart

So I moved to a new city last weekend and most of my stuff is still in boxes.  That includes most of my audio gear and the tables where I plan to put it.  As good as my portable rig is (AK100ii or QP1R and Noble4C or Westone ES60 currently), I miss my desktop rig.  Tonight I decided to dig out my LC at least and run it right from the line out on a DAP into my HD800.  It's no DAC-19 + Liquid Crimson, but it should scratch the itch.
  
 Well damn, I forget sometimes how GOOD the LC sounds.  I settled on the AK100ii for the DAC (the QP1R is more resolving but it's brighter and the HD800 doesn't like it as much) and this is just a really really good combo.  For most sane people (i.e. people not willing to spend three grand or more on a big brother Cavalli), the Liquid Carbon could easily be endgame.  I know as soon as I plug my Crimson back in I'll remember why I bought it, but for now I know that if a cash crunch should hit, I could sell the Crimson and be perfectly happy with the LC alone.
  
 Fun fact:  I listened to the "Akira" symphonic suite (OST) two+ times through and now I'm jamming to some Bonobo.  Having a wonderful evening of listening thanks to the LC.


----------



## aamefford

My carbon is in its box right now for space reasons.  When I was switching back and forth from Crimson to Carbon, the Crimson was (almost barely) noticeably "better."  Enough so that I am glad I bought it, and especially glad I got lucky and found a rare used one in absolutely mint condition.  Still, the Carbon has this thing going on that I can't really describe, that can make it almost more enjoyable to listen to.  I will say that in my opinion, the Carbon should be used balanced.  If you are going to use the Carbon, get your headphones terminated balanced.  The Carbon is a heck of an amp for sure.


----------



## reddog

aamefford said:


> My carbon is in its box right now for space reasons.  When I was switching back and forth from Crimson to Carbon, the Crimson was (almost barely) noticeably "better."  Enough so that I am glad I bought it, and especially glad I got lucky and found a rare used one in absolutely mint condition.  Still, the Carbon has this thing going on that I can't really describe, that can make it almost more enjoyable to listen to.  I will say that in my opinion, the Carbon should be used balanced.  If you are going to use the Carbon, get your headphones terminated balanced.  The Carbon is a heck of an amp for sure.



Yes I agree with your impressions, the Crimson beats the Carbon, by a hair or two. I mostly use my Crimson to watch TV and to Game. However I do switch to the Carbon, now and then, because its a lot of fun to listen too. I am glad you were able to find a used Crimson, it is a great amp.


----------



## d1sturb3d

yup I love my HE-560 thru the LC..never tried the SE plug of my LC..only the balanced plug hehe


----------



## aamefford

reddog said:


> Yes I agree with your impressions, the Crimson beats the Carbon, by a hair or two. I mostly use my Crimson to watch TV and to Game. However I do switch to the Carbon, now and then, because its a lot of fun to listen too. I am glad you were able to find a used Crimson, it is a great amp.


 

 You got a chuckle out of me. You have the Glass, so the Crimson is relegated to TV and gaming.  Kind of like using the F-40 to go get the mail because you have a McLaren for "real" driving, lol.  I understand.  I find I like what tubes add to the sound, but I find tubes fiddly.  The Crimson is a nice compromise (one tube, designed to be left alone), and of course the Carbon dispenses with tubes completely.....  Still, the glass does sound wonderful.


----------



## swspiers

aamefford said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I agree with your impressions, the Crimson beats the Carbon, by a hair or two. I mostly use my Crimson to watch TV and to Game. However I do switch to the Carbon, now and then, because its a lot of fun to listen too. I am glad you were able to find a used Crimson, it is a great amp.
> ...


All of you are making me chuckle.

Oh, and lately, TV soundtracks meet or exceed the quality from a lot of audiophile recordings. It feels weird to write that, but TV audio has gone up a few notches over the past decade. The Crimson probably isn't wasted at all!


----------



## bflat

swspiers said:


> All of you are making me chuckle.
> 
> Oh, and lately, TV soundtracks meet or exceed the quality from a lot of audiophile recordings. It feels weird to write that, but TV audio has gone up a few notches over the past decade. The Crimson probably isn't wasted at all!


 

 If @reddog was listening to the last GOP debate through Crimson, it probably got really dirty and is in need of liberal cleaning.


----------



## swspiers

bflat said:


> swspiers said:
> 
> 
> > All of you are making me chuckle.
> ...


I cannot Trump that joke...


----------



## aamefford

^^^ Wow, nice ones.  I got nothin' to top those!


----------



## swspiers

aamefford said:


> ^^^ Wow, nice ones.  I got nothin' to top those!


Yeah, we're really "Cruz"-ing right along. I guess it's hard to keep up...

(ok, I'm done)


----------



## Youth

Sounds like I haven't fully heard the Carbon yet without the balanced cable. Can't wait to recieve it.


----------



## aamefford

youth said:


> Sounds like I haven't fully heard the Carbon yet without the balanced cable. Can't wait to recieve it.



Certainly not night and day difference by any means, but certainly better to my ears.


----------



## reddog

bflat said:


> If @reddog
> was listening to the last GOP debate through Crimson, it probably got really dirty and is in need of liberal cleaning.


lol try to watch educational tv only. Lol. The debates are to farcical.


----------



## Stillhart

@aamefford, have you upgraded the tube in the Crimson yet?  I grabbed a nice $100 NOS tube and it improved the sound noticeably.  I don't like the idea of fiddling with tubes either, so I just bought a really good one (from a friend so I knew it was good and it worked) and called it a day.  Even at the RMAF discount price, the tube was significantly cheaper than the cost of the amp so the noticeable increase in performance was money well spent IMO.


----------



## aamefford

stillhart said:


> @aamefford
> , have you upgraded the tube in the Crimson yet?  I grabbed a nice $100 NOS tube and it improved the sound noticeably.  I don't like the idea of fiddling with tubes either, so I just bought a really good one (from a friend so I knew it was good and it worked) and called it a day.  Even at the RMAF discount price, the tube was significantly cheaper than the cost of the amp so the noticeable increase in performance was money well spent IMO.



No. The previous owner went through a couple of NOS tubes and back to stock. Lmk what you went with. I'll try out a NOS tube at some point. I like the idea of the currently available Genelax.


----------



## swspiers

aamefford said:


> youth said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like I haven't fully heard the Carbon yet without the balanced cable. Can't wait to recieve it.
> ...


With my Primes and 400i's, it's pretty much night and day. It's a whole different experience for me, and one that has me tempted to end the game here.


----------



## Serenitty

stillhart said:


> So I moved to a new city last weekend and most of my stuff is still in boxes.  That includes most of my audio gear and the tables where I plan to put it.  As good as my portable rig is (AK100ii or QP1R and Noble4C or Westone ES60 currently), I miss my desktop rig.  Tonight I decided to dig out my LC at least and run it right from the line out on a DAP into my HD800.  It's no DAC-19 + Liquid Crimson, but it should scratch the itch.
> 
> Well damn, I forget sometimes how GOOD the LC sounds.  I settled on the AK100ii for the DAC (the QP1R is more resolving but it's brighter and the HD800 doesn't like it as much) and this is just a really really good combo.  For most sane people (i.e. people not willing to spend three grand or more on a big brother Cavalli), the Liquid Carbon could easily be endgame.  I know as soon as I plug my Crimson back in I'll remember why I bought it, but for now I know that if a cash crunch should hit, I could sell the Crimson and be perfectly happy with the LC alone.
> 
> Fun fact:  I listened to the "Akira" symphonic suite (OST) two+ times through and now I'm jamming to some Bonobo.  Having a wonderful evening of listening thanks to the LC.




I've been very satisfied with my AK120ii > LC > Ether C combo... I don't have anything to compare it to right now, but I have doubts that another Dac would be that much better.


----------



## reddog

aamefford said:


> No. The previous owner went through a couple of NOS tubes and back to stock. Lmk what you went with. I'll try out a NOS tube at some point. I like the idea of the currently available Genelax.



I switched in a good NOS Telefunken E88CC PLATINUM and it was alright, but I found I liked the Crimson better with the Genalex Gold lion.


----------



## Stillhart

aamefford said:


> No. The previous owner went through a couple of NOS tubes and back to stock. Lmk what you went with. I'll try out a NOS tube at some point. I like the idea of the currently available Genelax.


 
  
 I have a Dario Miniwatt or some such.  @Hansotek is the original owner, he can expound a bit.  I just know that it gave me a very nice bump to the low end.  I believe he swapped out to a Telefunken?
  


serenitty said:


> I've been very satisfied with my AK120ii > LC > Ether C combo... I don't have anything to compare it to right now, but I have doubts that another Dac would be that much better.


 
  
 If there's one thing I want from the AK100ii it's a bit more clarity/resolution.  The 120 has two of the single DAC that's in the 100, so I suspect it's got that extra clarity I crave.  I know the Ether C is very revealing of detail so if you're not noticing any softness, it's probably pretty solid.  I'll have to see if I can find someone local with a AK120ii or AK240 (same DAC setup) so I can test it out.  Possibly against the Mojo.
  


reddog said:


> I switched in a good NOS Telefunken E88CC PLATINUM and it was alright, but I found I liked the Crimson better with the Genalex Gold lion.


 
  
 I don't like to roll tubes but I'd be curious what all tubes people end up with.  We should maybe take that discussion over to the Crimson thread.  It's depressingly dead in there and I hope it'll pick up soon with the final run coming and the LC discount.


----------



## Serenitty

stillhart said:


> If there's one thing I want from the AK100ii it's a bit more clarity/resolution.  The 120 has two of the single DAC that's in the 100, so I suspect it's got that extra clarity I crave.  I know the Ether C is very revealing of detail so if you're not noticing any softness, it's probably pretty solid.  I'll have to see if I can find someone local with a AK120ii or AK240 (same DAC setup) so I can test it out.  Possibly against the Mojo.




The two I'm curious about are the Mojo and the Bifrost Multibit. There were a couple of bimby's at the DC meet last weekend, but with the background noise unless the difference was sledgehammer in the face obvious, I doubt I would have noticed. Like comparing my ether C off the LC vs the Lcd-XC. That was obvious....


----------



## x RELIC x

If it weren't for the Canadian dollar I'd have bought the Crimson by now. You guys need to take it to the Crimson thread as my jealousy meter is pretty high right now.

Mojo=/=DAC-19 > AK240 as a source to the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## x RELIC x

serenitty said:


> The two I'm curious about are the Mojo and the Bifrost Multibit. There were a couple of bimby's at the DC meet last weekend, but with the background noise unless the difference was sledgehammer in the face obvious, I doubt I would have noticed. Like comparing my ether C off the LC vs the Lcd-XC. That was obvious....




Have you read this?

http://www.head-fi.org/products/chord-mojo/reviews/15145


----------



## Stillhart

serenitty said:


> The two I'm curious about are the Mojo and the Bifrost Multibit. There were a couple of bimby's at the DC meet last weekend, but with the background noise unless the difference was sledgehammer in the face obvious, I doubt I would have noticed. Like comparing my ether C off the LC vs the Lcd-XC. That was obvious....


 
  
 At the price of the AK120ii, you should be looking at the DAC-19 or GMB, not the BMB.  I haven't had a chance to dig into the BMB at all (I've heard it at loud shows, so same problem as you), but I've been reading some mixed things about it.  If you want R2R done at the level of the AK DACs, you might want to step up from it.
  
 EDIT - Oh and here's the Crimson thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/737694/new-cavalli-audio-liquid-crimson-amp


----------



## paulpthcom

serenitty said:


> The two I'm curious about are the Mojo and the Bifrost Multibit. There were a couple of bimby's at the DC meet last weekend, but with the background noise unless the difference was sledgehammer in the face obvious, I doubt I would have noticed. Like comparing my ether C off the LC vs the Lcd-XC. That was obvious....


 

 As someone waiting for the LCD-XC to get here but thinking maybe one of the Ethers would've been a wiser choice, would love to have that expanded upon.


----------



## reddog

stillhart said:


> I have a Dario Miniwatt or some such.  @Hansotek
> is the original owner, he can expound a bit.  I just know that it gave me a very nice bump to the low end.  I believe he swapped out to a Telefunken?
> 
> 
> ...



I agree I hope the Crimson thread gets more active, when the new run of Crimson's start arriving.


----------



## Serenitty

x relic x said:


> Have you read this?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/chord-mojo/reviews/15145




Thanks, interesting read.. The mojo is tempting, not that the LC is hard to move around, but there are times when that kind of portability would be nice.


----------



## Serenitty

paulpthcom said:


> As someone waiting for the LCD-XC to get here but thinking maybe one of the Ethers would've been a wiser choice, would love to have that expanded upon.




Bass, the XC has very prominent bass. The Ether C sounds good, but the bass is much more subtle. The weight difference is substantial too. Miss and highs I can't say much on, the meet conditions were too loud, even with closed phones.


----------



## Serenitty

stillhart said:


> At the price of the AK120ii, you should be looking at the DAC-19 or GMB, not the BMB.  I haven't had a chance to dig into the BMB at all (I've heard it at loud shows, so same problem as you), but I've been reading some mixed things about it.  If you want R2R done at the level of the AK DACs, you might want to step up from it.




Good point, and maybe a good argument to just be happy with the AK. Sheldaze had an LC on a black GMB and while it might have sounded good, the size difference was enormous.


----------



## x RELIC x

serenitty said:


> Bass, the XC has very prominent bass. The Ether C sounds good, but the bass is much more subtle. The weight difference is substantial too. Miss and highs I can't say much on, the meet conditions were too loud, even with closed phones.




And that's where the Audeze variance kicks in. My XC doesn't have very prominent bass, compared with other XC's. Mine's down about 5 dB compared to the mids and treble when I look at other graphs.


----------



## yage

serenitty said:


> Bass, the XC has very prominent bass. The Ether C sounds good, but the bass is much more subtle. The weight difference is substantial too. Miss and highs I can't say much on, the meet conditions were too loud, even with closed phones.


 
  
 I own the LCD-XC's that @Serenitty listened to during the meet. I really liked the Ether C's midrange. I feel that the XC's upper midrange / lower treble is slightly accentuated. The Ether C's sounded more natural to me, albeit with less bass kick (at least when compared to my pair of XC's). However I felt that bass extension was about the same.


----------



## Stillhart

I've heard the XC several times at shows and they've never impressed me.  They sound nothing like the awesome LCD-X and they are the heaviest headphone around that isn't the Abyss.  The Ether C, on the other hand, is super light and impressed me with its sound immediately.  Honestly, the only things they have in common (in my mind) are the closed cups, the planar drivers, and the price tag.


----------



## AxelCloris

serenitty said:


> Thanks, interesting read.. The mojo is tempting, not that the LC is hard to move around, but there are times when that kind of portability would be nice.


 

 The Mojo and the LC play quite well together. It's easy to grab the Mojo from my setup and hit the road with it.


----------



## x RELIC x

axelcloris said:


> The Mojo and the LC play quite well together. It's easy to grab the Mojo from my setup and hit the road with it.




Yup, and you have the ETHER (C?) connected (with the DUM cable?) as well. Perfect sound.


----------



## AxelCloris

x relic x said:


> Yup, and you have the ETHER (C?) connected (with the DUM cable?) as well. Perfect sound.


 
  
 Ether, yeah. Sadly I don't own the C. And that's indeed the early version of the DUM cable. Stiff and unwieldy at times, but it sounds awesome.


----------



## sheldaze

serenitty said:


> Good point, and maybe a good argument to just be happy with the AK. Sheldaze had an LC on a black GMB and while it might have sounded good, the size difference was enormous.


 
 And I wish I had known you were interested in hearing Mojo. It was sitting in the box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Next meet though, definitely...


----------



## zaintachik

aamefford said:


> Certainly not night and day difference by any means, but certainly better to my ears.




Mine was quite substantial difference coming from HD 700


----------



## Serenitty

sheldaze said:


> And I wish I had known you were interested in hearing Mojo. It was sitting in the box
> Next meet though, definitely...




Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. Though I think I'll need more quiet and time to really compare..


----------



## RichardA1

I am new to these forums and have a question about the Liquid Carbon. I currently have a my Liquid Carbon running with balanced cables from my Lumin A1 network player as a source and balanced headphone cables to my EtherC's . If I was to swich to a dac with single ended outputs and run a balanced cable to the Liquid Carbon from my preamp would I be still getting the best experience from my Cavalli headphone amp without a complete balanced path from source to headphones ? 
  
 Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## Stillhart

richarda1 said:


> I am new to these forums and have a question about the Liquid Carbon. I currently have a my Liquid Carbon running with balanced cables from my Lumin A1 network player as a source and balanced headphone cables to my EtherC's . If I was to swich to a dac with single ended outputs and run a balanced cable to the Liquid Carbon from my preamp would I be still getting the best experience from my Cavalli headphone amp without a complete balanced path from source to headphones ?
> 
> Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.


 
  
 Welcome to Head-fi, sorry about your wallet!
  
 The LC is somewhat special in that it converts all SE inputs to balanced before amplifying the signal.  That means you can get all the benefits of balanced amplification when using an SE input.  
  
 The question on whether or not you need balanced output from your DAC to get all the benefits of going "fully balanced" is... well I'll call it subjective.  Some people are big believers in it and others not so much.  I use an SE DAC and I love it.  I've also used a balanced DAC where I couldn't tell the difference between balanced and SE on the LC.  I've also used a balanced DAC where the balanced output sounded noticeably better than the SE output (with the LC).  
  
 At the end of the day, when using the LC, how good your DAC is will be more important that whether it's balanced or not.


----------



## RichardA1

Thank You Stillhart
 That was just the information I needed


----------



## LepakVT

axelcloris said:


> The Mojo and the LC play quite well together. It's easy to grab the Mojo from my setup and hit the road with it.


 
  
 I have a Bifrost MB on order and should receive it tomorrow, but I'm so tempted to order a Mojo and do my own comparison and return one or the other.


----------



## Stillhart

lepakvt said:


> I have a Bifrost MB on order and should receive it tomorrow, but I'm so tempted to order a Mojo and do my own comparison and return one or the other.


 
  
 If you do, I'd love to hear the results.  I love doing that kind of thing when I can afford it and I find it really helpful when others take the time to do the same.


----------



## x RELIC x

lepakvt said:


> I have a Bifrost MB on order and should receive it tomorrow, but I'm so tempted to order a Mojo and do my own comparison and return one or the other.




I know a few people who have sold their Bifrost Multibit after hearing the Mojo.

I'd be interested in your thoughts as well. :wink_face:


----------



## musiclvr

@LepakVT - I found myself in the same predicament and I ended cancelling my order of the Bimby in favor of the Mojo even though I have not heard either one. This was just last night too. I found that I gravitated towards the specs and versatility over the Bimby thus far. I feel that I will like the portability aspect of the mojo and do not feel I would want to have the Bimby on 24/7 either as most say it is what is necessary to achieve its best SQ. Please report back on how the Bimby pairs for you as I will be all ears!


----------



## Hansotek

lepakvt said:


> [CONTENTEMBED=/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/1635#post_12397210 layout=inline]Quote:[/CONTENTEMBED]
> 
> 
> axelcloris said:
> ...



I would encourage you to do so. I found the Mojo to be the better of the two, but of course YMMV. To be fair, I'd recommend playing music through the Bimby continuously for about 7 days before making a critical judgement. I experienced noticeable changes until it hit about 160 hours or so. Mojo is much shorter.


----------



## sling5s

lepakvt said:


> I have a Bifrost MB on order and should receive it tomorrow, but I'm so tempted to order a Mojo and do my own comparison and return one or the other.


 


hansotek said:


> I would encourage you to do so. I found the Mojo to be the better of the two, but of course YMMV. To be fair, I'd recommend playing music through the Bimby continuously for about 7 days before making a critical judgement. I experienced noticeable changes until it hit about 160 hours or so. Mojo is much shorter.


 
 2X. Mojo is on the level of Gungnir Multibit and Dac 19.


----------



## SupaFuzz

sling5s said:


> 2X. Mojo is on the level of Gungnir Multibit and Dac 19.


 

 +2


----------



## AladdinSane

richarda1 said:


> Thank You Stillhart
> That was just the information I needed


 
 I'm running SE DAC and listening balanced with cable I just received for my Oppo PM-3. Only 24 hours into burn in on the LC and very very happy with the sound! Best the PM-3s have ever sounded. I'm still gathering info on the balanced DAC thing and which might work well. Have another balanced cable on order for my Senn 600s and excited to see what that does. Right now...heavenly!


----------



## Hansotek

sling5s said:


> lepakvt said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Bifrost MB on order and should receive it tomorrow, but I'm so tempted to order a Mojo and do my own comparison and return one or the other.
> ...







supafuzz said:


> sling5s said:
> 
> 
> > 2X. Mojo is on the level of Gungnir Multibit and Dac 19.
> ...




Whoa!! Fascinating. Will need to try those head to head! You guys own both, yes?


----------



## LepakVT

Wow, a lot of Mojo love!
  
 Unfortunately, I did not win an ebay auction that ended last night for a mint LC which ended up selling for $709 USD.


----------



## swspiers

stillhart said:


> richarda1 said:
> 
> 
> > I am new to these forums and have a question about the Liquid Carbon. I currently have a my Liquid Carbon running with balanced cables from my Lumin A1 network player as a source and balanced headphone cables to my EtherC's . If I was to swich to a dac with single ended outputs and run a balanced cable to the Liquid Carbon from my preamp would I be still getting the best experience from my Cavalli headphone amp without a complete balanced path from source to headphones ?
> ...


In my case, I think it's mostly the matter of the higher output of my DAC-1 with the balanced out. It's not necessarily that it's balanced, just a stronger signal.


----------



## negatron81

Hi Guys,
  
 I got an answer from Alex regarding my question for the SE hum.
  
 See below:
  
 My email:
  
 ~~~
Hi Alex,
 
First off, I wanted to say its great work you do with the Cavalli amps and its fantastic what you did with the liquid carbon so that some of us with lower budgets could get to experience your designs.
 
I'm the proud new owner of #XXXand have been having a wonderful time listening to it.
 
My audio chain is PC-> Matrix X-Saber -> Liquid Carbon.
 
I normally listen to it from the big XLR balance out plugs or the kobiconn out plug to a parid of LCD-XC.
 
Recently I plugged in a pair of Shure SE845 into the SE input and got a humming noise at low or zero volume.
 
This hum is present despite me changing power cables, XLR / RCA inputs, even with nothing but power plugged in there is still a hum.
 
I was wondering if you could advise if this is an issue with my amp (and if so how to get rid of the hum!) or is it be design supposed to have this hum with sensitive iems?
 
look forward to hearing from you soon!
  
 ~~~
  
 Alex's reply
 ~~~
Hi Negatron. There is a higher noise floor on the SE out. This means that some sensitive IEMs may hear that noise and some less sensitive ones won’t. If your IEMs are sensitive to the SE noise the only next step would be to run them out of the balanced out where the noise floor is much lower.
 
Please let us know how you do.
 
~~~
 
So I guess that's it, I'll try plug in some less sensitive phones into the SE out and see if there is still a hum.
  
but looks like i'll need to make up more balanced cables.
  
or time to sell the IEMs


----------



## x RELIC x

It's not a hiss that I hear from the single ended out. It's flat out a hum and it gets louder the longer I listen to the SE output during a session. When I power down then power up again it starts out low and gets louder again over time. This is not amplifier noise floor hiss and doesn't change in amplitude when the volume is raised like hiss does. I'll have to email Cavalli about it but I keep forgetting because I usually listen through the balanced output.


----------



## negatron81

hi relic, i agree, mine is also a hum and definitely not a hiss, drop me a PM, maybe we can both write to Alex and CC each other and see if he can give us more suggestions.


----------



## harpo1

x relic x said:


> It's not a hiss that I hear from the single ended out. It's flat out a hum and it gets louder the longer I listen to the SE output during a session. When I power down then power up again it starts out low and gets louder again over time. This is not amplifier noise floor hiss and doesn't change in amplitude when the volume is raised like hiss does. I'll have to email Cavalli about it but I keep forgetting because I usually listen through the balanced output.


 
 I was feeding my LC from the DC-1 balanced out and had the same thing listening to the SE out.  Then I connected the RCA out from the DC-1 to the LC and it went away.  Since I use the RCA out the DC-1 to my Littledot MKIV I just took a wire and wrapped it around one of the RCA outputs of the DC-1 and the input of the LC and I no longer have the hum.  It's now dead silent like the Balanced out.


----------



## x RELIC x

harpo1 said:


> I was feeding my LC from the DC-1 balanced out and had the same thing listening to the SE out.  Then I connected the RCA out from the DC-1 to the LC and it went away.  Since I use the RCA out the DC-1 to my Littledot MKIV I just took a wire and wrapped it around one of the RCA outputs of the DC-1 and the input of the LC and I no longer have the hum.  It's now dead silent like the Balanced out.




Yeah, tried balanced, SE, every combination, and the recommended 'fixes'. I'm composing my thoughts on how to break down what I've tested for Cavalli Audio. Thanks.


----------



## Peridot

harpo1 said:


> I was feeding my LC from the DC-1 balanced out and had the same thing listening to the SE out.  Then I connected the RCA out from the DC-1 to the LC and it went away.  Since I use the RCA out the DC-1 to my Littledot MKIV I just took a wire and wrapped it around one of the RCA outputs of the DC-1 and the input of the LC and I no longer have the hum.  It's now dead silent like the Balanced out.


 
  
 I found that grounding the LC via the RCA connections significantly reduced the SE hum, but did not eliminate it completely with more sensitive 'phones.
  
 It doesn't bother me as I'm using balanced output, however the number of reports suggest it is a "feature" of the LC rather than a fault with individual units.


----------



## Koolpep

Hmm, never heard any hum single ended with my headphones so far...
  
 Cheers.


----------



## musiclvr

Including iems?


----------



## Koolpep

musiclvr said:


> Including iems?




Yes, including. 

No hum. Just today tried the FX850 and 2.5 - nothing I could hear at my volume levels...


----------



## mandrake50

harpo1 said:


> I was feeding my LC from the DC-1 balanced out and had the same thing listening to the SE out.  Then I connected the RCA out from the DC-1 to the LC and it went away.  Since I use the RCA out the DC-1 to my Littledot MKIV I just took a wire and wrapped it around one of the RCA outputs of the DC-1 and the input of the LC and I no longer have the hum.  It's now dead silent like the Balanced out.


 

 Exactly my experience, as I have written previously. I also have no hum at any time using SE out from any DAC to SE in on the LC.
 It is only using Balanced out to balanced in on the LC. I have a suspicion that it is a grounding issue with the balanced inputs on the LC. Maybe a design choice, but it is there. I would think that it is the same for all of the Liquid Carbon amps. The circuit design will not change between units.


----------



## Peridot

x relic x said:


> Yeah, tried balanced, SE, every combination, and the recommended 'fixes'. I'm composing my thoughts on how to break down what I've tested for Cavalli Audio. Thanks.


 
  
 I don't know if you have made any further contact with Cavalli, but I just thought I'd record some checks I've made. 
  
 On my DC-1 DAC I found that the device is isolated from electrical ground, but that the outer ring on the RCA connectors and pin 1 on the XLRs is common
  
 On the LC the case is connected to electrical ground and pin 1 of the XLRs appears to share this common ground connection. The outer ring of the RCAs however is not directly connected to ground, as there is a 10 ohm impedance between them and XLR pin 1.
  
 The hum on each channel only appears when its respective XLR is connected.
  
 On the LC inputs, a wire connected between one of the XLRs pin 1 and one of the RCAs outer rings has the same effect as connecting the RCA inputs to the DAC - it kills the hum.
  
 I have no idea what all of this means but it suggests that one question to Cavalli might be - why aren't the LC's RCA inputs grounded and it there any potential problem caused by doing so?
  
 The bigger question remains as to where the hum originates from and why does grounding the disconnected SE input affect hum on connected balanced input?


----------



## d1sturb3d

peridot said:


> I don't know if you have made any further contact with Cavalli, but I just thought I'd record some checks I've made.
> 
> On my DC-1 DAC I found that the device is isolated from electrical ground, but that the outer ring on the RCA connectors and pin 1 on the XLRs is common
> 
> ...


 
  
 when I made my balanced cables for LC and DC-1 I also checked the grounding first, DC-1 XLR pin 1 and case and the RCA outer ring shares common ground..I tapped the case screws and I can also get continuity over them..the same with the LC,,however didn't bother to check the RCA since I have them hooked balanced from the start.
  
 Maybe if the RCA Source to RCA LC, you need to have a floating ground on some setups?


----------



## conquerator2

So after having the LCfor about a week...
I think the tonality is great. Great body, nice smooth vocals, meaty lower mids and bass. Warm and toe tapping 
However, I don't think it synergizes all that well with the HEK and would instead recommend it for the likes of HD800, T1, probably Ether, etc.
It makes the HEK subbass go way too far, which I think has the soundstage compression effect it has.
I also think that there is a bit to be desired in technicality (detail retrieval, soundstage width, separation, treble extension).
I do suspect some of these are due to the HEK pairing, which I've preferred with more neutral amps.
I do really wanna hear the big Cavalli now though


----------



## LepakVT

Unfortunately, the postman and I haven't been on the same schedule and I haven't been able to sign for my Liquid Carbon yet. I'll pick it up from the post office Monday after work. BUT I did receive my Mojo yesterday and I started doing some comparisons between it and the Bifrost Multibit this afternoon. For the comparison, I listened to a few of my favorite tracks from a FLAC rip of Doolittle by The Pixies, fed into a stock Bottlehead Crack amp and HD650s. I didn't get into the technicalities of volume matching and instant switches, but the results really surprised me. TL;DR: Mojo wins easily. Here are some of my quick impressions:
  
 I had the Bimby since Monday, so I had a few days to listen to it while keeping it continuously powered on and I thought it sounded great. That is .. until I compared it head-to-head with the Mojo. The Bimby sounds muddy, veiled, stunted compared to the Mojo. Another member in this thread (or maybe it was another thread?) likened the Bimby to a camera that was "out of focus", while the Mojo was perfectly in focus. I 100% agree with this statement! The soundstage of the Bimby was both narrower than the Mojo, and had a significantly "lower ceiling". The "lower" soundstage made it sound like a section of the music just disappeared when going from the Mojo back to the Bimby. Even after just one afternoon, the Mojo has dethroned the Bimby and it'll be going back to Schiit. 
  
 To keep things on topic here, I'll do another set of comparisons early next week after the Liquid Carbon arrives and before the Bimby gets returned.


----------



## Audio Addict

I spent some time this morning listening to 
  





  
 through the Liquid Carbon with the HE6 via a SOTA Comet with Wood Grado Sonata cartridge using the RSA F-117 Nighthawk.  The LC did a great job allowing me to really just sit back and enjoy.  This was the first time I have listened through the single ended input.  It makes you appreciate the versatility of the LC given I can run balance end from my CD player and single ended from a phono preamp.


----------



## doctorjazz

Interesting...I always hear about how difficult the HE-6 is to drive, I'd have guessed the LC isn't the best all to drive it. Glad you enjoyed (I'm one of the others who sometimes run my Linn turntable into a Phono preamp, then headphone amp into cans (usually HEK) )


----------



## Audio Addict

doctorjazz said:


> Interesting...I always hear about how difficult the HE-6 is to drive, I'd have guessed the LC isn't the best all to drive it. Glad you enjoyed (I'm one of the others who sometimes run my Linn turntable into a Phono preamp, then headphone amp into cans (usually HEK) )


 
  
 My experience with the LC and HE6 has been very favorable as long as the input to the LC has enough output coming from the source.  If the source had a weak output, the LC has not cut it for me.


----------



## jarnopp

audio addict said:


> My experience with the LC and HE6 has been very favorable as long as the input to the LC has enough output coming from the source.  If the source had a weak output, the LC has not cut it for me.




+1. HE-6 driven by Mojo at 3v line out --> LC is very enjoyable. Rarely get past 11:00 on 3x setting. The sound is best described as detailed and intimate.


----------



## doctorjazz

Hmm, just have a little experience with HE-6 at a show, so just going on what I've read, but detailed and intimate aren't descriptions I've read often. Usually it's described as a powerhouse. But that could be enjoyable as well.


----------



## jarnopp

doctorjazz said:


> Hmm, just have a little experience with HE-6 at a show, so just going on what I've read, but detailed and intimate aren't descriptions I've read often. Usually it's described as a powerhouse. But that could be enjoyable as well.




Through Mojo and Carbon. I've modded it a bit with the lamb skin alpha pads and felt bass lens, with Canare cable instead of stock. The power is definitely still there, but the sound signature was just that. Was listening to Alice in Chains Unplugged when I wrote that, and it was as good as I've ever heard it. Details on the strings and very...intimate.


----------



## x RELIC x

In case you gents missed it in Jude's CanJam SoCal video, Cavalli Audio is going to offer one more run of the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## shultzee

x relic x said:


> In case you gents missed it in Jude's CanJam SoCal video, Cavalli Audio is going to offer one more run of the Liquid Carbon.


 

 Awesome news


----------



## bearFNF

Will be interesting to see what updates are going to be made. Warren mentioned it in the SoCal CanJam thread.


----------



## paulpthcom

bearfnf said:


> Will be interesting to see what updates are going to be made. Warren mentioned it in the SoCal CanJam thread.


 

 Perfectly happy with mine, can't see what they'd improve. When can I order the new one?


----------



## conquerator2

They'll make them all milky pink as punishment for being late to the party!


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> They'll make them all milky pink as punishment for being late to the party!


 
  
 Is that what they did to yours?


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Is that what they did to yours?



Maybe I did it myself


----------



## conquerator2

Could I also get a SoCal badge please?


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Could I also get a SoCal badge please?


 
  
 Shoot a PM to @joe and he'll take care of it.


----------



## doctorjazz

Curious, any word on the new run's price?


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Curious, any word on the new run's price?


 
  
 It hasn't been announced, but Warren has mentioned many times that it will likely be more than the $599 if they do another run...


----------



## doctorjazz

stillhart said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Curious, any word on the new run's price?
> ...




That's what has been hinted at, but I was wondering, as was the existence of a second run at all, so I was wondering if any other details have been released (just academic for me, as I have one from the first run...)


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Kinda glad about the second run.  I've been tempted by people wanting to overpay for my "good ole #7"....


----------



## crossfire

pretty excited about the second run.


----------



## Jkane101

How do I get on the "list"!?!?!


----------



## negatron81

I wonder if the cavalli boys are making the 2nd batch the same hardware or if they will tweak the design it at all?


----------



## gr8soundz

No doubt they will tweak it. Perhaps for faster, smoother assembly and to fix any flaws. Read a few (only a few) posts of first batch LC owners who had to ship theirs back for fixes. I figured that was why the lifetime warranty was added.
  
 Second batch should have even fewer issues and no delays (I waited 5 months before having to cancel my original LC order). Doubt the second run will have the lifetime warranty though; it won't need it.


----------



## jlbrach

interestingly,I have been using my LC with my Hugo or Mojo and LCD-3F's and up until recently I had been putting volume on the Hugo to something marginally less than the fixed level and i enjoyed the combo but did not love it...just playing around a bit i decided to try the combo with the volume of the Hugo at the green normal start up and viola everything changed for me.....obviously I have to turn the volume up on the LC but to my ears what a difference...it seems like the soundstage opened up and the music was less congested and less harsh.....all of a sudden my LCD-3F's had a much wider soundstage and i found myself more involved with the music.....I dont think it is my imagination and i would recommend to anyone using the combo that you experiment with the volume levels of the LC and the Hugo...you might be surprised with the results,I was!


----------



## fiascogarcia

jlbrach said:


> interestingly,I have been using my LC with my Hugo or Mojo and LCD-3F's and up until recently I had been putting volume on the Hugo to something marginally less than the fixed level and i enjoyed the combo but did not love it...just playing around a bit i decided to try the combo with the volume of the Hugo at the green normal start up and viola everything changed for me.....obviously I have to turn the volume up on the LC but to my ears what a difference...it seems like the soundstage opened up and the music was less congested and less harsh.....all of a sudden my LCD-3F's had a much wider soundstage and i found myself more involved with the music.....I dont think it is my imagination and i would recommend to anyone using the combo that you experiment with the volume levels of the LC and the Hugo...you might be surprised with the results,I was!


 
 That's a great recommendation, as I'm hoping to finally get an LC and use the Hugo and Audezes with it! It indicates that the LC offers a bit of coloration.  Thanks!


----------



## Priaptor

jlbrach said:


> interestingly,I have been using my LC with my Hugo or Mojo and LCD-3F's and up until recently I had been putting volume on the Hugo to something marginally less than the fixed level and i enjoyed the combo but did not love it...just playing around a bit i decided to try the combo with the volume of the Hugo at the green normal start up and viola everything changed for me.....obviously I have to turn the volume up on the LC but to my ears what a difference...it seems like the soundstage opened up and the music was less congested and less harsh.....all of a sudden my LCD-3F's had a much wider soundstage and i found myself more involved with the music.....I dont think it is my imagination and i would recommend to anyone using the combo that you experiment with the volume levels of the LC and the Hugo...you might be surprised with the results,I was!


 
 You beat me to it!!  I was just about to post the same EXACT experience.  I use a HUGO with LCD-X and wasn't "loving" the combo with the LC.  I figured, burn in, which has been going on for quite some time.  Of course I overlooked the obvious as you point out, turned down the volume from the fixed volume of starting the HUGO with crossfeed being held down at startup and amazingly, the music was amazing!  Not bragging but comparing, my main system has the amazing NOLA Concert Grand Golds speakers, which Harry Pearson just before his death, reviewed and felt were the best speakers he has ever heard.  I can say, the combo of the HUGO, LCD-X and LC (with HUGO volume turned down) brings me as close to my main system as any can system I have ever heard.
  
 The LC is quite a bargain.


----------



## paulpthcom

priaptor said:


> You beat me to it!!  I was just about to post the same EXACT experience.  I use a HUGO with LCD-X and wasn't "loving" the combo with the LC.  I figured, burn in, which has been going on for quite some time.  Of course I overlooked the obvious as you point out, turned down the volume from the fixed volume of starting the HUGO with crossfeed being held down at startup and amazingly, the music was amazing!  Not bragging but comparing, my main system has the amazing NOLA Concert Grand Golds speakers, which Harry Pearson just before his death, reviewed and felt were the best speakers he has ever heard.  I can say, the combo of the HUGO, LCD-X and LC (with HUGO volume turned down) brings me as close to my main system as any can system I have ever heard.
> 
> The LC is quite a bargain.


 

 Have you tried outputting 24/32 bit audio from your computer and then lowering the volume on the Mojo? Wouldn't expect any loss of quality if that was done, though could be wrong.


----------



## Priaptor

paulpthcom said:


> Have you tried outputting 24/32 bit audio from your computer and then lowering the volume on the Mojo? Wouldn't expect any loss of quality if that was done, though could be wrong.


 
 Using a HUGO not a Mojo and I like leaving sampling as is.  I am loving what I am hearing right now.  I really haven't heard better, especially for the price.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Umm, I jut got a LC and now Cavelli announce a second run with some "surprises" bases on user feedback. I'm wondering if I need to sell my v1 now and jump on the V2.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I could be made to look the fool later, but I tend to think the guts of the LC will remain the same.  With maybe a manufacturing tweek or two to help prevent issues that popped up with the first run.
  
 Now maybe a new color or some other aesthetic change to make it stand out from the first run?


----------



## Priaptor

allanmarcus said:


> Umm, I jut got a LC and now Cavelli announce a second run with some "surprises" bases on user feedback. I'm wondering if I need to sell my v1 now and jump on the V2.


 

 Where is that?  Nothing on their website and I received no such email.  Can you direct us to where this is?


----------



## d1sturb3d

priaptor said:


> Where is that?  Nothing on their website and I received no such email.  Can you direct us to where this is?


 
  
 I think it was posted by @warrenpchi in the CanJam SoCal thread..
  
 I too would like to know the difference between the difference of the second run of LC


----------



## Stillhart

Warren posted last night or this morning that the official announcement is coming soon, pending some last minute details.


----------



## Peridot

I think the 'surprise' will be no price increase over the first run.


----------



## ejong7

peridot said:


> I think the 'surprise' will be no price increase over the first run.


 

 It'll still make it worth for the first batch as there's a limited warranty I guess.
  
 Or maybe the surprise is that to keep the cost low they decide it would not have its chassis. Easy save up on cost. Jk.


----------



## vince741

Maybe they'll change the kobicon for a balanced 2.5/3.5mm


----------



## XenHeadFi

Probably switch the volume pot out with another one from another supplier as the pots seems to have low QC or high failure rates.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Anyone have any news from CanJam?


----------



## mscott58

Heard the Tungsten is incredible.


----------



## Priaptor

Can someone tell me what the Tungsten is?

I have been looking and can't find any info on it. 

Thanks
Hiwie


----------



## Mr Rick

priaptor said:


> Can someone tell me what the Tungsten is?
> 
> I have been looking and can't find any info on it.
> 
> ...


 
 It's a prototype.


----------



## Youth

priaptor said:


> Can someone tell me what the Tungsten is?
> 
> I have been looking and can't find any info on it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's a pure tube amplifier prototype.


----------



## Priaptor

Is it pure balanced configuration? I knew he was releasing new stuff but was holding off on a Liquid Glass as a result of his new product releases. I really want a similar product to Liquid Glass with balanced in and out. 

Thanks
Hiwie


----------



## x RELIC x

priaptor said:


> Is it pure balanced configuration? I knew he was releasing new stuff but was holding off on a Liquid Glass as a result of his new product releases. I really want a similar product to Liquid Glass with balanced in and out.
> 
> Thanks
> Hiwie




Single ended input.

http://www.cavalliaudio.com/products/liquid-glass

Honestly, you won't miss a balanced input on Cavalli's amps, unless the SE out from the DAC is the weak link.

Duh, you're asking about the Tungsten. Apologies.

Edit: I asked in the CanJam Impressions thread and it looks like the Tungsten is SE Input only.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Single ended input.
> 
> http://www.cavalliaudio.com/products/liquid-glass
> 
> ...




All tube, output transformer-less (OTL) HP amp. Still in prototype form. Cheers


----------



## fiascogarcia

Can anyone give me the width, length, height measurements of the LC please?  Thanks for the help!


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> All tube, output transformer-less (OTL) HP amp. Still in prototype form. Cheers




Yes, I already know about the Tungsten. I was trying to be helpful in finding out the Inputs question, which are SE, which I'm cool with. I just had a brain fart and quoted about the Liquid Au.


----------



## x RELIC x

fiascogarcia said:


> Can anyone give me the width, length, height measurements of the LC please?  Thanks for the help!




3 Blu Ray movie cases stacked.

or

Approximately 5"W x 7"L x 1 3/4" Deep/Tall.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Yes, I already know about the Tungsten. I was trying to be helpful in finding out the Inputs question, which are SE, which I'm cool with. I just had a brain fart and quoted about the Liquid Au.




No worries. Have heard great things about the Tungsten from all my friends that have demoed it so far at CanJam SoCal. Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> No worries. Have heard great things about the Tungsten from all my friends that have demoed it so far at CanJam SoCal. Cheers




Reading up on it now, but does OTL mean no balanced input typically?

Edit: I didn't realize there were that many approaches to OTL designs. To answer my own question it all depends on the design approach.


----------



## Hansotek

x relic x said:


> mscott58 said:
> 
> 
> > No worries. Have heard great things about the Tungsten from all my friends that have demoed it so far at CanJam SoCal. Cheers
> ...




I talked to Alex about this earlier tonight. The short story is, if he made it balanced, there would have to be 8 tubes instead of 4, and the Tungsten is already pretty large. It would be unbelievably impractical from a size and tube matching standpoint, and he can do SE really, really well.


----------



## x RELIC x

hansotek said:


> I talked to Alex about this earlier tonight. The short story is, if he made it balanced, there would have to be 8 tubes instead of 4, and the Tungsten is already pretty large. It would be unbelievably impractical from a size and tube matching standpoint, and he can do SE really, really well.




That's what I ended up figuring out after digging deeper. Differential OTL amps have a lot of challenges and require a huge amount of precision from what I gather. From what I hear when listening to the SE Input of the Liquid Carbon balanced Input is not a concern of mine (if it ever was).  The man knows his phase splitters.

Thank you very much for asking Alex, really appreciate it!


----------



## gr8soundz

Even Fostex's $8K HP-V8 has only SE in yet it has 6+ tubes and a balanced headphone out:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/776591/fostex-hp-v8-pure-vacuum-tube-headphone-amplifier-announced


----------



## Allanmarcus

My son, @Rynsin, did some blind testing with folks at the Boston mini-meet yesterday. The compared balanced in vs SE input and no one could tell the difference. Hopefully he'll write it up in the mini-meet thread. Seems like balance would not really matter between a DAC and Amp.
  
 Once I get the LC from him, I'm planning on running both balanced and SE from my Oppo HA-1 and switch between them to see if I can hear any difference.


----------



## westermac

allanmarcus said:


> My son, @Rynsin, did some blind testing with folks at the Boston mini-meet yesterday. The compared balanced in vs SE input and no one could tell the difference. Hopefully he'll write it up in the mini-meet thread. Seems like balance would not really matter between a DAC and Amp.
> 
> Once I get the LC from him, I'm planning on running both balanced and SE from my Oppo HA-1 and switch between them to see if I can hear any difference.




Out of curiosity I ran both a balanced and SE feed from my Apollo interface, and after some seamless AB testing I was unable to discern any difference. 

I think those with a good SE source needn't fret (unless you are dealing with RF/EMI issues)


----------



## fiascogarcia

Soon to be (relatively!) first time owner of an LC.  Could you tell me what the requirement is for a power cord in the US?  Standard 115v with a 3 prong female?


----------



## Allanmarcus

fiascogarcia said:


> Soon to be (relatively!) first time owner of an LC.  Could you tell me what the requirement is for a power cord in the US?  Standard 115v with a 3 prong female?


 

 I recommend any of these to impress your friends. 
  
 http://www.dracoustics.com/en/product-category/power-cables/
  
 Remember, size matters!
  
 (or you can just use a standard three prong cable)


----------



## fiascogarcia

allanmarcus said:


> I recommend any of these to impress your friends.
> 
> http://www.dracoustics.com/en/product-category/power-cables/
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yeah, I use one of those Vulcan models to power my modified shop vac at home!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm the envy of the neighborhood.


----------



## tuxbass

Anyone here paring the HD 800S with LC ?
 How good is that pairing ?


----------



## rocketron

Yes I do.
Fed from Hugo or Mojo. 
Very pleased. 
LC balanced adds space, air, authority and a sense of control. 
The LC is a great amp in balanced out put. 
I can't think of anything that compares in a price/ performance ratio.


----------



## fiascogarcia

Any word on what changes are being made to the second run of LCs?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

x relic x said:


> Reading up on it now, but does OTL mean no balanced input typically?
> 
> Edit: I didn't realize there were that many approaches to OTL designs. To answer my own question it all depends on the design approach.


 
  
 Most OTL amp use RCA inputs only.  The only way I've seen a balanced OTL is when its built in a dual mono design.  So I would ponder that Alex would have had to build is prototype with twice as many tubes as he currently uses, or even in a dual mono block design.  That would be a huge setup and and finding matched tubes extremely difficult.


----------



## x RELIC x

Lol! It's funny, I just answered someone's question about SE Input on the Tungsten, then found my own answer to the different OTL designs and implementations (which face a lot more overall challenges than I initially thought vs using transformers). I hadn't seen an OTL with balanced Input so I was simply wondering out loud. Thanks guys, I get it.

Back to the Carbon.


----------



## yage

buttuglyjeff said:


> Most OTL amp use RCA inputs only.  The only way I've seen a balanced OTL is when its built in a dual mono design.




Sorry to keep the thread even more off topic, but the Circlotron topology is another way to get a balanced OTL tube amp. Should be familiar to Schiit fans and in the speaker world I believe Atma-Sphere pioneered it's use for their designs. Tungsten looks like a push-pull design to me...


----------



## Youth

Anyone heard HD800S with Liquid Carbon?


----------



## x RELIC x

youth said:


> Anyone heard HD800S with Liquid Carbon?




I'd also be interested in this.


----------



## Allanmarcus

youth said:


> Anyone heard HD800S with Liquid Carbon?




See http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/1740#post_12437638
It talks about that pairing


----------



## x RELIC x

allanmarcus said:


> See http://www.head-fi.org/t/787608/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-owners-impressions/1740#post_12437638
> It talks about that pairing




Already read that. Any more?


----------



## mscott58

yage said:


> Sorry to keep the thread even more off topic, but the Circlotron topology is another way to get a balanced OTL tube amp. Should be familiar to Schiit fans and in the speaker world I believe Atma-Sphere pioneered it's use for their designs. Tungsten looks like a push-pull design to me...


 
 Exactly. My Atma-sphere mono-block amps use that topology. Great stuff.


----------



## sheldaze

youth said:


> Anyone heard HD800S with Liquid Carbon?


 

 I did, but I sold the Carbon - less due to HD800/HD800S on the Carbon and more due to comparing one setup:
  
 (1) Carbon into HE1000
  
 Versus a vastly different setup:
  
 (2) DNA Sonett into HD800/HD800S
  
 I was after a particular sound on my HE1000 and wasn't hearing it on my Carbon. In short though, HD800S sounded quite good on the Carbon.


----------



## jlbrach

I think my HEK sounds outstanding paired with my hugo and LC.....interesting how different people hear things differently


----------



## doctorjazz

I think my HEK sounds good with the LC, better with my MicroZOTL2, as I've noted ad nauseum...


----------



## Stillhart

yage said:


> Sorry to keep the thread even more off topic, but the Circlotron topology is another way to get a balanced OTL tube amp. Should be familiar to Schiit fans and in the speaker world I believe Atma-Sphere pioneered it's use for their designs. Tungsten looks like a push-pull design to me...


 
  
 I have mucho info about the Tungsten but I'm not super technical so take everything with a grain of salt:
  
 1 - In my opinion (and everyone I talked to who heard it), it's better than the Liquid Gold.
 2 - That means people should quit asking about balanced. It's one of the best amps you'll ever hear so nobody can say that balanced is always better.
 3 - I talked to Alex about balanced vs SE a lot last night.  Without going into details, which I can't relay with accuracy so I won't try, he said a designer can make an SE amp that fully accounts for the benefits of balanced.
 4 - It's OTL (output transformer-less) and OCL (output capacitor-less).  The circuit is called a Futterman something something.  I spoke with Donald North about it and he said it's probably a circlotron topology.  I neglected to confirm this with Alex but you know... Donald North knows tube amps.
 5 - Holy heck, is it a good sounding amp!!!
  


youth said:


> Anyone heard HD800S with Liquid Carbon?


 
  
 There was only one HD800S at the show (Sennheiser didn't even bring one!) and I only had a chance to try it on the LW.  I'm going to assume it sounds really good on the LC based on what I heard and my experience with the HD800 and LC.


----------



## fiascogarcia

stillhart said:


> There was only one HD800S at the show (Sennheiser didn't even bring one!) and I only had a chance to try it on the LW.  I'm going to assume it sounds really good on the LC based on what I heard and my experience with the HD800 and LC.


 
  
 Any word or rumor on what kind of "pleasant surprises" there might be with the 2nd run of the LC based on user feedback?  Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

fiascogarcia said:


> Any word or rumor on what kind of "pleasant surprises" there might be with the 2nd run of the LC based on user feedback?  Thanks!


 
  
 I could tell you, but it would make @warrenpchi sad.  He does so love to treasel...  can you imagine what it would do to him?


----------



## fiascogarcia

stillhart said:


> I could tell you, but it would make @warrenpchi sad.  He does so love to treasel...  can you imagine what it would do to him?


 
 Fair enough! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  He will announce soon though, right?


----------



## Stillhart

fiascogarcia said:


> Fair enough!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, this week or next at the latest, I believe.


----------



## yage

stillhart said:


> 4 - It's OTL (output transformer-less) and OCL (output capacitor-less).  The circuit is called a Futterman something something.  I spoke with Donald North about it and he said it's probably a circlotron topology.  I neglected to confirm this with Alex but you know... Donald North knows tube amps.


 
  
 I think @jude said on the CanJam preview video that the Tungsten uses a Futterman topology. Circlotron would make it balanced since that's the only way it operates. I read in the CanJam thread that you might pay Donald North a visit. Hope you take him up on the offer and get a chance to listen to the Stellaris!


----------



## Stillhart

yage said:


> I think @jude said on the CanJam preview video that the Tungsten uses a Futterman topology. Circlotron would make it balanced since that's the only way it operates. I read in the CanJam thread that you might pay Donald North a visit. Hope you take him up on the offer and get a chance to listen to the Stellaris!


 
  
 Well there you go, proving my point that I'm not technical.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks for the clarification!  
  
 And yeah, I hope I do get to take Donald up on that offer.  Not only does he make great gear, he has awesome taste in music (based on his demos at Riva)!  lol


----------



## fiascogarcia

jlbrach said:


> I think my HEK sounds outstanding paired with my hugo and LC.....interesting how different people hear things differently


 
 Maybe the Hugo makes the difference.


----------



## wym2

fiascogarcia said:


> Maybe the Hugo makes the difference.


 
 i think they are very compatible.
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC


----------



## Stillhart

Hey everyone!  If you're considering taking advantage of the loyalty upgrade at all, you might want to keep an eye on this thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/802865/cavalli-audio-the-liquid-carbon-upgrade-guide-impressions-tour


----------



## crossfire

Did cavalli made an announcement yet?


----------



## warrenpchi

Nope, not yet, but we will soon... very likely within a week's time.


----------



## shultzee

warrenpchi said:


> Nope, not yet, but we will soon... very likely within a week's time.


 

 Lets get cracking on this


----------



## Allanmarcus

shultzee said:


> warrenpchi said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, not yet, but we will soon... very likely within a week's time.
> ...


 

 They are planning for the plan.


----------



## Stillhart

allanmarcus said:


> They are planning for the plan.


 
  
 Plan-ception!  Plans within plans... which plan is the REAL plan??


----------



## mscott58

stillhart said:


> Plan-ception!  Plans within plans... which plan is the REAL plan??


 
 Plan the work, and then work the plan.


----------



## WNBC

I love it when a plan comes together.


----------



## Deezel177

At this rate, the product's gonna end up coming out as the Cavalli Audio Liquid Plan.


----------



## warrenpchi

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run​


----------



## stjj89

warrenpchi said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/803956/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-final-production-run​


 
  
 This is great news! Is there any way for current owners of the LC to receive the power supply upgrade in the new version of the LC?


----------



## fiascogarcia

stjj89 said:


> This is great news! Is there any way for current owners of the LC to receive the power supply upgrade in the new version of the LC?


 
 My guess is that an upgrade would not be readily available with their efforts being directed at building the second run of units, understandably.  I ultimately have committed myself to using all balanced headphone and iem cables.


----------



## paulpthcom

Running pretty much everything balanced means I don't have to feel bad about skipping rev 2. I could go for some Cavalli Limited Edition rubber feet though.


----------



## Allanmarcus

paulpthcom said:


> Running pretty much everything balanced means I don't have to feel bad about skipping rev 2. I could go for some Cavalli Limited Edition rubber feet though.


 
  
 Ummm, maybe I should buy these
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Cylindrical-Adhesive-Bumpers-Commericial-Residential/dp/B00XRT6ZZU
  
 and sell them on the classified forum as Audiophile Black Cylindrical Self Adhesive Rubber isolation devices for $25 each!


----------



## defbear

allanmarcus said:


> Ummm, maybe I should buy these
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cylindrical-Adhesive-Bumpers-Commericial-Residential/dp/B00XRT6ZZU
> 
> and sell them on the classified forum as Audiophile Black Cylindrical Self Adhesive Rubber isolation devices for $25 each!


When placed at the Extreme ends of the device a wider soundstage has been perceived.


----------



## LepakVT

defbear said:


> When placed at the Extreme ends of the device a wider soundstage has been perceived.


 
  
  
 In for one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
 But really though, I need to get some feet for my LC.


----------



## x RELIC x

lepakvt said:


> In for one :rolleyes:
> 
> 
> 
> But really though, I need to get some feet for my LC.




I used the rubber feet that came with the iDAC2 (that I won) for my Liquid Carbon. That's the total extent that I've used the iDAC2, lol!


----------



## rigo

lepakvt said:


> In for one :rolleyes:
> 
> 
> 
> But really though, I need to get some feet for my LC.




I bought these and have extras. PM if you like them and I'll send 4 to you.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002OTNGPQ/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## korotnam

runeight said:


> Hello gents. We are working on this with CanDude. I'm not certain what happened in this instance. Give me a little bit to try to understand it.


 
 As of 10 minutes ago I just had the exact same thing happen to my LC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 #22. 
  
  
*WARNING*:
 Do not plug a SE plug into the SE jack when a headphone is connected to a balanced jack, and the power is on! 
 Amp instantly broke. Bass clipping heavily in both channels.


----------



## morinu

korotnam said:


> As of 10 minutes ago I just had the exact same thing happen to my LC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 oh!! I do this all the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and luckily no issue so far.


----------



## jamato8

I put tape over the socket not used just to remind myself of this!


----------



## d1sturb3d

korotnam said:


> As of 10 minutes ago I just had the exact same thing happen to my LC
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 what headphones did you use?  the other person that experience this issue I think has his HE-6 plugged into the balanced..
  
 I have no issues with this since I only use 1 headphone at a time..


----------



## korotnam

d1sturb3d said:


> what headphones did you use?  the other person that experience this issue I think has his HE-6 plugged into the balanced..
> 
> I have no issues with this since I only use 1 headphone at a time..


 
 LCD-XC


----------



## defbear

stjj89 said:


> This is great news! Is there any way for current owners of the LC to receive the power supply upgrade in the new version of the LC?


I really need an answer to this question. My Stock SE th900's sound like Pete Townshend's Hiwatt when there is no music playing.


----------



## d1sturb3d

defbear said:


> I really need an answer to this question. My Stock SE th900's sound like Pete Townshend's Hiwatt when there is no music playing.


 
  
 why don't you email warren or alex regarding this.. I find no fault on the SE of my LC (as of now)..tried my A83, SR80i, 560..maybe yours has a defect and you can have it fixed.


----------



## defbear

d1sturb3d said:


> why don't you email warren or alex regarding this.. I find no fault on the SE of my LC (as of now)..tried my A83, SR80i, 560..maybe yours has a defect and you can have it fixed.


Mines not broken. As I just said in another post, the SE input works better for me at lower listening volumes.


----------



## Hansotek

defbear said:


> d1sturb3d said:
> 
> 
> > why don't you email warren or alex regarding this.. I find no fault on the SE of my LC (as of now)..tried my A83, SR80i, 560..maybe yours has a defect and you can have it fixed.
> ...



I don't know dude, you're making it sound pretty broken. Maybe you should take advantage of that lifetime warranty or something.


----------



## mandrake50

defbear said:


> I really need an answer to this question. My Stock SE th900's sound like Pete Townshend's Hiwatt when there is no music playing.


 

 That is interesting. I have an Ember that I have been playing with tube rolling. I have some setups with multiple tubes. Some people had mantioned hum in one channel with similar setups. I have used the HE 560, He 400i, Hd600, Hd650, Pm3, Hp50 with a set of 6g5 Visseaux tubes. Dead silence. I plugged in my set of TH-X00 and had a bunch of hum in the left channel. I will have to plug them into the LC and see what happens. Not sure why they would show up noise  more than others. They really aren't much more sensitive than the PM 3 or HP 50?
  
 BTW, I have had no problems with noise and the LC... except balanced in and SE out... cured by connecting an RCA cable between the DAC and LC .. When I do that it is actually very quiet.


----------



## defbear

mandrake50 said:


> That is interesting. I have an Ember that I have been playing with tube rolling. I have some setups with multiple tubes. Some people had mantioned hum in one channel with similar setups. I have used the HE 560, He 400i, Hd600, Hd650, Pm3, Hp50 with a set of 6g5 Visseaux tubes. Dead silence. I plugged in my set of TH-X00 and had a bunch of hum in the left channel. I will have to plug them into the LC and see what happens. Not sure why they would show up noise  more than others. They really aren't much more sensitive than the PM 3 or HP 50?
> 
> BTW, I have had no problems with noise and the LC... except balanced in and SE out... cured by connecting an RCA cable between the DAC and LC .. When I do that it is actually very quiet.


Well, thank you for reviving my specious comments. Ok I exaggerated a bit. Yet, If I'm listening to Enya with the TH900's, I'm blissed out on one of her swirling waltzes, and then between the tracks is a noticible amplifier hum which is then covered up when the music starts up again. This is the only amp I have with noise on the SE. I will contact Cavalli. But tonight, thank you, I will take your suggestion and connect an RCA between my Emotiva and the LC. It is just connected balanced at the moment.


----------



## mandrake50

defbear said:


> Well, thank you for reviving my specious comments. Ok I exaggerated a bit. Yet, If I'm listening to Enya with the TH900's, I'm blissed out on one of her swirling waltzes, and then between the tracks is a noticible amplifier hum which is then covered up when the music starts up again. This is the only amp I have with noise on the SE. I will contact Cavalli. But tonight, thank you, I will take your suggestion and connect an RCA between my Emotiva and the LC. It is just connected balanced at the moment.


 

 Let us know the results if you would. Creating a common chassis ground between the LC and DAC through the patch cable seems to have worked for several people that have posted here.
 I stumbled upon the answer one night... by accident.


----------



## x RELIC x

mandrake50 said:


> Let us know the results if you would. Creating a common chassis ground between the LC and DAC through the patch cable seems to have worked for several people that have posted here.
> I stumbled upon the answer one night... by accident.




Didn't work for me, but then again most of my Liquid Carbon use is balanced out so not in a rush to do anything about it. Yes, I'll eventually contact Cavalli about it.


----------



## ddaktiv

doctorjazz said:


> So, I went back to the LC manual, it recommends burning in 150 hours WITHOUT HEADPHONES ATTACHED! That is different from the impressions I had gotten on the LC threads, including, I thing, from Alex. My impression was that burning in with balanced headphones would be best, followed by no headphone if that couldn't be managed, followed by doing it single ended, which would be the least desirable way to do the burn in. Did I get this wrong? I've been doing the balanced burn in for about 48 hours now with my HE-1000 connected to the LC (iPod Nano as the source on shuffle). Have about 5 more days to reach this 150 hour point, but thinking maybe I should disconnect the headphones.




How do you burn in without any headphones attached?


----------



## defbear

mandrake50 said:


> Let us know the results if you would. Creating a common chassis ground between the LC and DAC through the patch cable seems to have worked for several people that have posted here.
> I stumbled upon the answer one night... by accident.


Well I'll be a Blue Nosed Gopher! When I attach a RCA cable between the DAC and Amp the hum goes away. It only takes one cable but I attached both left and right. Unplug the RCA and the hum quickly fades in. Plug in the RCA and it fades out. For me at least this is a Work-Around. At the same time this is really Mickey Mouse. Is this a design flaw? Did the manufacturers forget to tack down a ground wire? And is that all the new power supply is? A little proper internal grounding? The ' RCA ground wire' did not seem to affect the sound adversely. Has anyone tried hooking up a 2nd DAC to the SE input vs grounding via RCA jacks to the balanced DAC? I did not have time to try that.
Great big Thank you for this work around.


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> Well I'll be a Blue Nosed Gopher! When I attach a RCA cable between the DAC and Amp the hum goes away. It only takes one cable but I attached both left and right. Unplug the RCA and the hum quickly fades in. Plug in the RCA and it fades out. For me at least this is a Work-Around. At the same time this is really Mickey Mouse. Is this a design flaw? Did the manufacturers forget to tack down a ground wire? And is that all the new power supply is? A little proper internal grounding? The ' RCA ground wire' did not seem to affect the sound adversely. Has anyone tried hooking up a 2nd DAC to the SE input vs grounding via RCA jacks to the balanced DAC? I did not have time to try that.
> Great big Thank you for this work around.




I've tried just SE DAC RCA, SE DAC RCA + 3.5mm DAC (not both sources turned on at the same time), Balanced DAC in + RCA SE DAC in. All have a hum with sensitive earphones (definitely not amp noise floor). Could be a ground loop in my house wiring, but I don't get any hum with other amps. I wish the above solution worked for me. C'est la vie. That's what warranties are for, not now though... Busy enjoying balanced out.

Edit: Wait, are you hooking up the RCA and balanced out from the same DAC? I'm using different DAC sources. D'oh!


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> I've tried just SE DAC RCA, SE DAC RCA + 3.5mm DAC (not both sources turned on at the same time), Balanced DAC in + RCA SE DAC in. All have a hum with sensitive earphones (definitely not amp noise floor). Could be a ground loop in my house wiring, but I don't get any hum with other amps. I wish the above solution worked for me. C'est la vie. That's what warranties are for, not now though... Busy enjoying balanced out.
> 
> Edit: Wait, are you hooking up the RCA and balanced out from the same DAC? I'm using different DAC sources. D'oh!


I think you just answered my question. But to answer yours, Yes my Emotiva DAC one is now attached Both balanced and SE at the same time. If I remove the SE connection the SE input hums. This does compromise both the DAC and Amp in that SE inputs and outputs cannot be used with another piece of equipment.


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> I think you just answered my question. But to answer yours, Yes my Emotiva DAC one is now attached Both balanced and SE at the same time. If I remove the SE connection the SE input hums. This does compromise both the DAC and Amp in that SE inputs and outputs cannot be used with another piece of equipment.




That's what I figured, I was just being too dense to see it. After all, if it's grounding then separate components really wouldn't help at all. Good grief I feel thick headed tonight.


----------



## doctorjazz

ddaktiv said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > So, I went back to the LC manual, it recommends burning in 150 hours WITHOUT HEADPHONES ATTACHED! That is different from the impressions I had gotten on the LC threads, including, I thing, from Alex. My impression was that burning in with balanced headphones would be best, followed by no headphone if that couldn't be managed, followed by doing it single ended, which would be the least desirable way to do the burn in. Did I get this wrong? I've been doing the balanced burn in for about 48 hours now with my HE-1000 connected to the LC (iPod Nano as the source on shuffle). Have about 5 more days to reach this 150 hour point, but thinking maybe I should disconnect the headphones.
> ...




Since then I've just logged listening hours, but, as I recall, this was the way we were instructed to do it from on high (Alex)


----------



## bearFNF

defbear said:


> I think you just answered my question. But to answer yours, Yes my Emotiva DAC one is now attached Both balanced and SE at the same time. If I remove the SE connection the *SE input hums*. This does compromise both the DAC and Amp in that SE inputs and outputs cannot be used with another piece of equipment.



Did you mean the SE output hums? Cause if you remove the SE connection how can it hum?


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> Well I'll be a Blue Nosed Gopher! When I attach a RCA cable between the DAC and Amp the hum goes away. It only takes one cable but I attached both left and right. Unplug the RCA and the hum quickly fades in. Plug in the RCA and it fades out. For me at least this is a Work-Around. At the same time this is really Mickey Mouse. Is this a design flaw? Did the manufacturers forget to tack down a ground wire? And is that all the new power supply is? A little proper internal grounding? The ' RCA ground wire' did not seem to affect the sound adversely. Has anyone tried hooking up a 2nd DAC to the SE input vs grounding via RCA jacks to the balanced DAC? I did not have time to try that.
> Great big Thank you for this work around.


 
  
 I'm sorry but are you being serious right now?  You've been told directly that this potentially solves the issue, within the last week.  Many people with the same DAC have reported this issue and this fix.  Alex even wrote a big post about potential grounding issues way back last year before the amps even hit the streets.  This isn't news, dude.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT - A word


----------



## bearFNF

stillhart said:


> I'm sorry but are you being serious right now?  You've been told directly that this solves the issue, within the last week.  Many people with the same DAC have reported this issue and this fix.  Alex even wrote a big post about potential grounding issues way back last year before the amps even hit the streets.  This isn't news, dude.


 

 There have been reports of this NOT fixing the issue, as in my case, it got better but did not go away. Just sayin' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 There was still noise and what I would call a transformer hum like sound.
 That is why Alex asked to get mine back, BTW. So he can look into it and find out what is going on with mine. YMMV, YEMBDTM etc...


----------



## Stillhart

bearfnf said:


> There have been reports of this NOT fixing the issue, as in my case, it got better but did not go away. Just sayin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sure but you knew about it and at least tried it, yes?


----------



## bearFNF

stillhart said:


> Sure but you knew about it and at least tried it, yes?


 

 Yep, sure did.
  
 It's your second sentence I was trying to address...so you can update your knowledge base and dispel the now false statement that it solves the issue, cuz' it don't in all cases...


----------



## Stillhart

bearfnf said:


> Yep, sure did.
> 
> It's your second sentence I was trying to address...so you can update your knowledge base and dispel the now false statement that it solves the issue, cuz' it don't in all cases...


 
  
 Fair enough.  Edited my post to allow for the possibility that it doesn't fix it in all circumstances.


----------



## mandrake50

x relic x said:


> Didn't work for me, but then again most of my Liquid Carbon use is balanced out so not in a rush to do anything about it. Yes, I'll eventually contact Cavalli about it.


 

 We are probably talking about different problems. What I heard was a constant low level 60 cycle hum. As others have described, it is  there but not so loud that it is not covered up by most any music.
 Definitely reminds me of the kind of noise, though lower level, that occurs with ground loop types of problems. It also is completely removed by connecting either of the SE inputs to one of the SE outputs on the DAC. This has worked on at least 4 different DACs. I am not talking about the sort of hiss that some hear in sensitive IEMs that are usually associated with the noise floor of the amp.
 I think that this is the noise that the power supply revision in the second run is intended to mitigate.


----------



## mandrake50

defbear said:


> I think you just answered my question. But to answer yours, Yes my Emotiva DAC one is now attached Both balanced and SE at the same time. If I remove the SE connection the SE input hums. This does compromise both the DAC and Amp in that SE inputs and outputs cannot be used with another piece of equipment.


 

 I will give it a try, but I believe that simply adding a ground from the case or more likely back panel (chassis ground of some kind) of the amp and DAC would work as well. Saving the SE outputs and inputs.


----------



## mandrake50

defbear said:


> Well I'll be a Blue Nosed Gopher! When I attach a RCA cable between the DAC and Amp the hum goes away. It only takes one cable but I attached both left and right. Unplug the RCA and the hum quickly fades in. Plug in the RCA and it fades out. For me at least this is a Work-Around. At the same time this is really Mickey Mouse. Is this a design flaw? Did the manufacturers forget to tack down a ground wire? And is that all the new power supply is? A little proper internal grounding? The ' RCA ground wire' did not seem to affect the sound adversely. Has anyone tried hooking up a 2nd DAC to the SE input vs grounding via RCA jacks to the balanced DAC? I did not have time to try that.
> Great big Thank you for this work around.


 

 I am glad that this worked for you. It is not ideal, but in my case it does the job. I don't have any situation where I need to use the SE outs on the DAC nor the inputs on the LC to connect other equipment.


----------



## Peridot

mandrake50 said:


> I will give it a try, but I believe that simply adding a ground from the case or more likely back panel (chassis ground of some kind) of the amp and DAC would work as well. Saving the SE outputs and inputs.


 
  
 What the 'fix' is actually doing is grounding the SE input of the LC to the LC's own ground.
  
 For some reason (deliberate or otherwise) the SE input on the LC is not grounded. By connecting both balanced and SE inputs to a source component which has a common ground for its balanced and SE outputs, the LC inputs are being connected to a common ground too (via a loop through the interconnect cables and the source component).
  
 The same effect can be achieved by connecting the SE input ground on the LC to pin 1 of the balanced input XLRs, or to the amp's casing.
  
 I don't know why the lack of a ground on the SE inputs is causing hum on the SE output even when the input is from the balanced connectors, but it is.


----------



## rocketron

Hi guys. 
I have tonight tried the S/E output on my Carbon. Using Magnum V6 and Ortofon EQ-8.
No hum issue at all. The Carbon is connected to a Chord Hugo 3.5 to 3.5. 
I also connected a Chord Mojo same result. No hum. 
The only thing I get is a slight very slight channel imbalance at near 0 volume when i run a pair of HD800S 
Balanced . 
All I can say is it might be poor grounding on your house electric supply. 
Saying that I do have a separate earth cable run too a out side earth spike from my hifi system. 
I do hope you can get round the grounding issue with out having to send the amp back.


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> Did you mean the SE output hums? Cause if you remove the SE connection how can it hum?


On the LC I am feeding the balanced inputs from the balanced outputs on my Emotiva DAC. I then plug single ended Fostex TH900 into the SE input of the LC. On the front of the LC panel I have chosen to listen to the balanced inputs. I turn the amp to 11:00 and hear amp hum until the music starts. When the music ends the hum is readily apparent. NOW if I take a single RCA cable and run it between the DAC and the AMP the hum disappears. 
That is how.


----------



## Allanmarcus

defbear said:


> bearfnf said:
> 
> 
> > Did you mean the SE output hums? Cause if you remove the SE connection how can it hum?
> ...


 

 With just the balanced inputs connected to the inputs, can you try left, then right. Disconnect the unused cable from from both ends, then from just one end. Swap cables (left/right) and try that. See if the hum is or is not there for every once of those combinations. The issue might be the ground in one of the two cables, or in one of of the four jacks on the DAC/Amp.


----------



## bearFNF

defbear said:


> On the LC I am feeding the balanced inputs from the balanced outputs on my Emotiva DAC. I then plug single ended Fostex TH900 into the SE input of the LC. On the front of the LC panel I have chosen to listen to the balanced inputs. I turn the amp to 11:00 and hear amp hum until the music starts. When the music ends the hum is readily apparent. NOW if I take a single RCA cable and run it between the DAC and the AMP the hum disappears.
> That is how.



Um, why connect the headphones to the LC input? Wouldn't you want to use the output on the front?


----------



## defbear

stillhart said:


> I'm sorry but are you being serious right now?  You've been told directly that this potentially solves the issue, within the last week.  Many people with the same DAC have reported this issue and this fix.  Alex even wrote a big post about potential grounding issues way back last year before the amps even hit the streets.  This isn't news, dude.
> 
> EDIT - A word


I get it. No one is allowed to say nay against the Liquid Carbon no matter what the issue. And oops! If I didn't get the word on this amateur work around last week, MY entire life is not centered on this bulletin board. Sheesh!


----------



## Peridot

allanmarcus said:


> With just the balanced inputs connected to the inputs, can you try left, then right. Disconnect the unused cable from from both ends, then from just one end. Swap cables (left/right) and try that. See if the hum is or is not there for every once of those combinations. The issue might be the ground in one of the two cables, or in one of of the four jacks on the DAC/Amp.


 
  
 It's nothing to do with cables, a number of us have done extensive testing to show that it's in the amp.
  
 If it was an interconnect issue it wouldn't have been fixed in the revision to the second build.
  
 There does have to be a signal present on the balanced input. Disconnecting one of the cables will remove the hum on the respective channel.


----------



## Allanmarcus

bearfnf said:


> defbear said:
> 
> 
> > On the LC I am feeding the balanced inputs from the balanced outputs on my Emotiva DAC. I then plug single ended Fostex TH900 into the SE input of the LC. On the front of the LC panel I have chosen to listen to the balanced inputs. I turn the amp to 11:00 and hear amp hum until the music starts. When the music ends the hum is readily apparent. NOW if I take a single RCA cable and run it between the DAC and the AMP the hum disappears.
> ...


 

 I think it was a mistake. I imagine he meant to say he plugged the 900 into the SE output.


----------



## Peridot

defbear said:


> I get it. No one is allowed to say nay against the Liquid Carbon no matter what the issue. And oops! If I didn't get the word on this amateur work around last week, MY entire life is not centered on this bulletin board. Sheesh!


 
  
 To be fair, you have been making the biggest fuss over this issue and I'm also surprised that you weren't aware of the work around that mostly solves it.
  
 I'm happy to experiment and help get to the bottom of the issue, as much out of curiosity as anything else. It's not a problem for me as I'm using the balanced output but if I was as bothered as you by it I'd have returned the amp to Cavalli long ago for a warranty repair.


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> Um, why connect the headphones to the LC input? Wouldn't you want to use the output on the front?


Ok perhaps I misspoke. I am plugging my phones into the 1/4 jak on the front.


----------



## bearFNF

defbear said:


> Ok, unless you are being intentionally obtuse, which I think you are, I am plugging my phones into the 1/4 jak on the front.


 right and you call that an input when it's an output that's what I've been trying to get at here. In several posts you've mixed up inputs and outputs which really makes things confusing for people that are trying to follow what you're trying to do. That's all I was trying to get at.


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> right and you call that an input when it's an output that's what I've been trying to get at here. In several posts you've mixed up inputs and outputs which really makes things confusing for people that are trying to follow what you're trying to do. That's all I was trying to get at.


You are correct. Thank you!


----------



## defbear

peridot said:


> To be fair, you have been making the biggest fuss over this issue and I'm also surprised that you weren't aware of the work around that mostly solves it.
> 
> I'm happy to experiment and help get to the bottom of the issue, as much out of curiosity as anything else. It's not a problem for me as I'm using the balanced output but if I was as bothered as you by it I'd have returned the amp to Cavalli long ago for a warranty repair.


It wasn't an issue for me either until I started using the th900's. I am not going to re-terminate them and they will be the main phones I will use with the LC. And yes, Monday I am taking your advice and contacting Cavalli.


----------



## gr8soundz

.


----------



## paulpthcom

Just to jump in here. I have a TH900 that's terminated to balanced cable and also have a balanced to SE adapter. Source is a Gustard X12
  
 Here's what I see
  
 Balanced I - Balanced O no hum
*Balanced I - SE O hum*
 SE I - Balanced O no hum
 SE I - SE O no hum
 Nothing Connected - Balanced O no hum
 Nothing Connected - SE O no hum
 Balanced + SE I - Balanced O no hum
 Balanced + SE I - SE O no hum
  
 Connecting L or R only Balanced I - SE O, causes hum in just that channel
 Connecting either L/R SE I when Balanced I is selected makes the hum go away
  
 Sounds (no pun intended) to me like a grounding issue.


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> I get it. No one is allowed to say nay against the Liquid Carbon no matter what the issue. And oops! If I didn't get the word on this amateur work around last week, MY entire life is not centered on this bulletin board. Sheesh!


 
  
 I have no problem with someone not liking the LC.  It spreading false information that gets me annoyed and you'll see it in every thread I'm in.  
  
 You've been harping on some huge "design flaw" of the Carbon when multiple people have suggested potential fixes and multiple others have told you it's your unit and theirs doesn't do it.  If you choose to ignore the helpful advice on how to fix it and you choose to ignore the suggestions to make use of your lifetime warranty, that's on you, not on the LC.  
  
 If you want to say, "My LC is as loud as Marty McFly's Marshall stack at the beginning of BTTF, but I choose to do nothing about it and therefore I'm not happy with the LC,"  I'll laugh to myself and move along.  But saying, "The LC is as loud as a Saturn rocket at takeoff and I can't believe this design flaw made it to the final product," is misleading and I'll be correcting you.


----------



## x RELIC x

mandrake50 said:


> We are probably talking about different problems. What I heard was a constant low level 60 cycle hum. As others have described, it is  there but not so loud that it is not covered up by most any music.
> Definitely reminds me of the kind of noise, though lower level, that occurs with ground loop types of problems. It also is completely removed by connecting either of the SE inputs to one of the SE outputs on the DAC. This has worked on at least 4 different DACs. I am not talking about the sort of hiss that some hear in sensitive IEMs that are usually associated with the noise floor of the amp.
> I think that this is the noise that the power supply revision in the second run is intended to mitigate.




I thought I made it very clear that it's not low level hiss that one would typically hear of the amplifier noise floor being heard through sensitive IEMs. It's a hum, and it isn't affected by volume and it sounds as you describe. I've been a little thick and was connecting different sources to the amp to 'fix it' but never the same source with both balanced and SE at the same time.

I clearly know the difference between noise floor and a ground hum.


----------



## BucketInABucket

On a separate note, were Alex and co busy this week? I sent in a contact form regarding my faulty LC a few days ago and still haven't gotten a response; should I be more patient or send another in?


----------



## mandrake50

x relic x said:


> I thought I made it very clear that it's not low level hiss that one would typically hear of the amplifier noise floor being heard through sensitive IEMs. It's a hum, and it isn't affected by volume and it sounds as you describe. I've been a little thick and was connecting different sources to the amp to 'fix it' but never the same source with both balanced and SE at the same time.
> 
> I clearly know the difference.


 

 I understand and understood. My speculation is that this hum is not what the power supply was changed to fix...
 Purely speculation.
 Lots of folks around this thread seem to have private conversations with Warren and Alex. Why  not just ask the question?


----------



## Stillhart

mandrake50 said:


> I understand and understood. My speculation is that this hum is not what the power supply was changed to fix...
> Purely speculation.
> Lots of folks around this thread seem to have private conversations with Warren and Alex. Why  not just ask the question?


 
  
 You are correct, the power supply change is to lower the noise floor and lessen the hiss from the SE jack.  The ground hum is not caused by the power supply.


----------



## x RELIC x

mandrake50 said:


> I understand and understood. My speculation is that this hum is not what the power supply was changed to fix...
> Purely speculation.
> Lots of folks around this thread seem to have private conversations with Warren and Alex. Why  not just ask the question?




But I never said anything about the new run of Carbons, and the power supply change. I was simply responding with my experience with the hum on the first release, and how daft I was being with the SE 'fix' from the same source.

As I've said, I'm not in a rush to contact Cavalli, though I will when I'm ready to ship the unit if need be. I'm enjoying it too much with the balanced output. Last post I'll make on the topic as it really doesn't concern me and I'll contact them at my leisure.


----------



## mandrake50

peridot said:


> What the 'fix' is actually doing is grounding the SE input of the LC to the LC's own ground.
> 
> For some reason (deliberate or otherwise) the SE input on the LC is not grounded. By connecting both balanced and SE inputs to a source component which has a common ground for its balanced and SE outputs, the LC inputs are being connected to a common ground too (via a loop through the interconnect cables and the source component).
> 
> ...


 

 What leads you to believe this?  Schematics perhaps?
  
 I ask because I just got meter out and checked (externally) continuity from the shell of the RCA connectors for SE input as well as pin 1 of the balanced inputs referenced to chassis ground and the ground pin of the power cord connector.
 The results are interesting and I don't quite understand the readings. The shell of the R/L RCA connectors shows initially 0 ohms referenced to the chassis, the ground for the power cord and pin 1 of the balanced in. After a few seconds the resistance climbs. Alter 10 seconds or so it stabilizes at about 10.1 ohms. It does this referenced to any ground point selected.
  
 Pin 1 on the XLR balanced in shows 0 ohms referenced to the case or the ground connection for the power cord.
  
 The climb in resistance to ground from the shell of the RCA connector appears to match a capacitor charging. If Alex isolated the SE inputs from ground using a capacitor, I am sure he did it for a reason (DC blocking).  At a given frequency a capacitor will act like a short, but still block DC. Yes the question is why, and what other effects than removing the hum are caused when shorting the shell to ground?
  
 I can't believe that it would hurt anything. Anytime these connections are used with a device that has a common chassis ground for the RCA connectors shell, whether the source for the balanced inputs or not, the same situation would occur.
  
  
 Anyway, tying the RCA shell directly to pin1 of the XLR may fix the hum problem, but if so  tying them to chassis ground would do the same thing... pin 1 is already at chassis ground potential.
  
 Still I wonder, I still say that the configuration was intentional, rather than by accident.


----------



## Allanmarcus

Hi. Where is Alex's post (blog entry) on this topic? A link, please.


----------



## Stillhart

allanmarcus said:


> Hi. Where is Alex's post (blog entry) on this topic? A link, please.


 
  
 I believe this is the post in question.  He's talking specifically about using a balanced source like the Pono or CDM, but in theory it could apply here too.  Given that the solution provided in his post solves this problem too, I'm thinking they're related.


----------



## Allanmarcus

stillhart said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > Hi. Where is Alex's post (blog entry) on this topic? A link, please.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Stillhart. I'm not sure it applies since for the SE connection and the XLR connection to the DC-1 are both grounded. I plan on trying the same thing with my oppo HA-1 once my LC arrives (Tuesday). I'll report back.
  
 As for resolving the issue, may I suggest that those with the issue work directly with Cavalli on a resolution.


----------



## yage

stillhart said:


> I believe this is the post in question.  He's talking specifically about using a balanced source like the Pono or CDM, but in theory it could apply here too.  Given that the solution provided in his post solves this problem too, I'm thinking they're related.


 
  
 If you're wiring TRS -> 3 pin XLR with only positive and negative (pins 2 and 3) and leaving pin 1 unconnected then you're doing it wrong. This post should clear things up for the Pono. You should only use the four-wire configuration for headphones, not for connection to other components.
  
  
 EDIT: Had an extra 'R' in there...


----------



## Peridot

mandrake50 said:


> What leads you to believe this?  Schematics perhaps?
> 
> I ask because I just got meter out and checked (externally) continuity from the shell of the RCA connectors for SE input as well as pin 1 of the balanced inputs referenced to chassis ground and the ground pin of the power cord connector.
> The results are interesting and I don't quite understand the readings. The shell of the R/L RCA connectors shows initially 0 ohms referenced to the chassis, the ground for the power cord and pin 1 of the balanced in. After a few seconds the resistance climbs. Alter 10 seconds or so it stabilizes at about 10.1 ohms. It does this referenced to any ground point selected.
> ...


 
  
 I took similar measurements with the same results as yours. I hadn't identified the capacitive effect (I got the 10R reading straight away) perhaps because the amp had been connected and switched on prior to taking measurements.
  
 Is is puzzling as to whether the configuration is intentional, given that connection of two input sources is likely to defeat it anyway.


----------



## Tagjazz

Hi LC Owners. I would love your input.
  
 I want to upgrade my current desktop DAC/amp (Centrance DACmini CX). I already own a Mojo and love the sound so:
 1. Does Mojo and LC pair well together?
2. Would the LC be overkill with AQ Nighthawks?
  
 [size=x-small]I was looking at Audeze Deckard but then someone pointed out the LC and I am very tempted but am not [/size]familiar[size=x-small] with the 'house sound'. I love a really dynamic and musical presentation, hence the NH's - although many differing opinions on this.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]Any [/size]help[size=x-small] and advice would be greatly received. Cheers. [/size]


----------



## Koolpep

tagjazz said:


> Hi LC Owners. I would love your input.
> 
> I want to upgrade my current desktop DAC/amp (Centrance DACmini CX). I already own a Mojo and love the sound so:
> 1. Does Mojo and LC pair well together?
> ...




I see you also have the PM-3 - at our latest meet up one of the stars of the show was the PM-3 driven by the Liquid Carbon. People couldn't believe how good that combo sounded. And mind you, we had HD800s, WA8, WA22, WA5, Ragnaroks and a lot of other amazing amps and headphones (HE-1K, Edition X, Ether C, T1ii ec) there too. For the money that combo was hard to beat.

I certainly would recommend the LC - I have yet to hear a headphone that sounds bad with it.

One alternative could be the ifi Pro iCan that I am reviewing and testing right now, even more flexibility than the LC but at double the price.

Yes mojo pairs well.

Cheers.


----------



## AxelCloris

tagjazz said:


> Hi LC Owners. I would love your input.
> 
> I want to upgrade my current desktop DAC/amp (Centrance DACmini CX). I already own a Mojo and love the sound so:
> 1. Does Mojo and LC pair well together?
> ...


 

 The Mojo and the LC play very nicely together. They make for one hell of a compact desktop setup and it's the same pairing I use in my office with my Ether. I can't speak to how it does with the Nighthawk because I don't have them, but if you're considering the Nighthawk make sure you order it with a balanced cable. The SE output on the LC isn't the star of the show and you'll deliver more power and a cleaner signal to the headphones with the balanced output. For what it's worth, the Audeze Deckard has never really stood out for me at all.


----------



## Priaptor

koolpep said:


> I see you also have the PM-3 - at our latest meet up one of the stars of the show was the PM-3 driven by the Liquid Carbon. People couldn't believe how good that combo sounded. And mind you, we had HD800s, WA8, WA22, WA5, Ragnaroks and a lot of other amazing amps and headphones (HE-1K, Edition X, Ether C, T1ii ec) there too. For the money that combo was hard to beat.
> 
> I certainly would recommend the LC - I have yet to hear a headphone that sounds bad with it.
> 
> ...




I am also trying a preproduction iFi Pro and own a LC upgrading to a Lau. I love the carbon but am extremely impressed with the Pro. I could easily recommend either product. The Pro will likely have to last me until the Tungsten and is good enough I think I can sell my Carbon and be happy waiting for my discounted Liquid Gold. 

I am also finding the Mojo to be a better source than my HUGO.


----------



## wasupdog

how exactly are you guys hooking up the mojo to the LC?


----------



## AxelCloris

I use the Audioquest Evergreen interconnect. http://www.audioquest.com/bridges-falls/evergreen


----------



## Allanmarcus

wasupdog said:


> how exactly are you guys hooking up the mojo to the LC?




Mojo has been optimised for portable use, but can also be used as a system DAC. Please note that the design of Mojo means that power is always taken from the battery so, in certain circumstances, you may deplete the battery faster than it can recharge. Therefore it is recommended that you switch off Mojo when not in use so the battery can have a full charge cycle ready for the next listening session. Mojo should not be permanently switched on.
To set the output level to 3V (line level) for connection to a preamplifier press both volume buttons together when switching on the unit. Both volume balls will illuminate light blue. This mode is not remembered so when you switch Mojo off it will reset back to the previous volume stored for safety reasons.


----------



## Allanmarcus

tagjazz said:


> Hi LC Owners. I would love your input.
> 
> I want to upgrade my current desktop DAC/amp (Centrance DACmini CX). I already own a Mojo and love the sound so:
> 1. Does Mojo and LC pair well together?
> ...




You might consider using the DACMini as just a DAC, and the LC as the amp. The DACMini is an awesome DAC. It's literally a stereophile class A DAC, which is very high praise.


----------



## wasupdog

axelcloris said:


> I use the Audioquest Evergreen interconnect. http://www.audioquest.com/bridges-falls/evergreen


 
 i mean, if i connect my source to the coax, which wires go where?  is the best hookup to the rca jacks on the LC but from which mojo output?


----------



## Stillhart

wasupdog said:


> i mean, if i connect my source to the coax, which wires go where?  is the best hookup to the rca jacks on the LC but from which mojo output?


 
  
 Both outputs on the Mojo are the same, if I'm not mistaken.  The LC can take input via 3.5mm TRS or RCA so you can use whichever is more convenient.


----------



## AxelCloris

wasupdog said:


> i mean, if i connect my source to the coax, which wires go where?  is the best hookup to the rca jacks on the LC but from which mojo output?


 

 The 3.5mm outputs on the Mojo are identical. It doesn't matter whether you use left or right. I'd suggest using the one closest to the amp.
  
 Here's a photo of my Mojo and LC before swapping out to the Audioquest cable.


----------



## wasupdog

oh i see, it's the headphone outputs to the 3.5mm amp connector.  thanks guys.


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

allanmarcus said:


> You might consider using the DACMini as just a DAC, and the LC as the amp. The DACMini is an awesome DAC. It's literally a stereophile class A DAC, which is very high praise.


 
 No, it's a DAC with a class A amp, there is no such thing as a class A DAC. DACs aren't categorized that way.


----------



## swspiers

merrick said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > You might consider using the DACMini as just a DAC, and the LC as the amp. The DACMini is an awesome DAC. It's literally a stereophile class A DAC, which is very high praise.
> ...




 I don't think he's referring to the output, but the rating in Stereophile magazine. Class A just means it's a very, very good piece of equipment.


----------



## Koolpep

swspiers said:


> I don't think he's referring to the output, but the rating in Stereophile magazine. Class A just means it's a very, very good piece of equipment.


 

 Yes, guessing so too.
  
 I had the DACMini for a while and it is really a superb DAC and a very good amp. CEntrance in general makes really good sounding equipment - they know a thing or two especially in the digital domain.
  
 cheers.


----------



## Allanmarcus

merrick said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > You might consider using the DACMini as just a DAC, and the LC as the amp. The DACMini is an awesome DAC. It's literally a stereophile class A DAC, which is very high praise.
> ...




It was on the stereophile recommended list up until 2015 in their A category (A+ is the best) until 2015

http://www.stereophile.com/content/2015-recommended-components-digital-processors#4mgpmerUrwwJXgpL.97

Interestingly enough, it's not on the 2016 list. Still, as others have said, it's an excellent DAC, and other CEntrance DACs are still on the list, as are chord DACs.


----------



## Tagjazz

allanmarcus said:


> It was on the stereophile recommended list up until 2015 in their A category (A+ is the best) until 2015
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/2015-recommended-components-digital-processors#4mgpmerUrwwJXgpL.97
> 
> Interestingly enough, it's not on the 2016 list. Still, as others have said, it's an excellent DAC, and other CEntrance DACs are still on the list, as are chord DACs.


 

 The Centrance DACmini is great and has done me well, but I find the Mojo DAC far more detailed and engaging so when I go back to the DACmini, it sounds a bit boring and lacking in detail. Also the DAC is the older AKM chip as opposed to the newer ones they now use which plays up to DSD. I am looking for something with a touch more warmth and more 'musical' so hoping the LC will give me that?


----------



## doctorjazz

Have the CEntrance HiFi-M8, feel the same way about it (don't use it, other my Geek Out Special Edition)...think you'll find the LC much more engaging.


----------



## mscott58

allanmarcus said:


> It was on the stereophile recommended list up until 2015 in their A category (A+ is the best) until 2015
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/2015-recommended-components-digital-processors#4mgpmerUrwwJXgpL.97
> 
> Interestingly enough, it's not on the 2016 list. Still, as others have said, it's an excellent DAC, and other CEntrance DACs are still on the list, as are chord DACs.


 
 If you look at the 2016 Stereophile ratings in the Headphone section you'll find Chord Mojo is "Class A" rated. Here's the text and link:
  
*Chord Mojo: $599 $$$*
 Fans of James Cotton and Muddy Waters will be dismayed to learn that the name of Chord's latest D/A headphone amplifier is a contraction of _mobile joy_. But that is likely to be the only disappointment associated with the chunky little Mojo—which, like Chord's more expensive Hugo TT (see above), eschews an off-the-shelf DAC chip in favor of its own proprietary code, implemented with a field-programmable gate array (FPGA). The Mojo even runs the same Rob Watts–designed digital filter as its dearer stablemate, and its USB input is compatible with PCM up to 192kHz and DSD up to 11.29MHz (DSD256). No less striking are its three matte-surface glass control balls, which change color to indicate various functions and statuses. Used by JA with a variety of partnering gear—the Audeze LCD-X headphones suited it especially well—the Mojo "combined authoritative, well-defined low frequencies with smooth, detailed highs and excellent soundstaging." JA the measurer confirmed "performance that is superb for a portable device, and would not be out of place in a high-priced conventional D/A processor." But the last word goes to JA the listener: "Wow!" (Vol.39 No.2 WWW)
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/2016-recommended-components-headphones
  
 And to answer the original question, the Mojo does indeed pair well with the LC - I use them often together on my desktop. 

 Cheers


----------



## jamato8

mscott58 said:


> If you look at the 2016 Stereophile ratings in the Headphone section you'll find Chord Mojo is "Class A" rated. Here's the text and link:
> 
> *Chord Mojo: $599 $$$*
> Fans of James Cotton and Muddy Waters will be dismayed to learn that the name of Chord's latest D/A headphone amplifier is a contraction of _mobile joy_. But that is likely to be the only disappointment associated with the chunky little Mojo—which, like Chord's more expensive Hugo TT (see above), eschews an off-the-shelf DAC chip in favor of its own proprietary code, implemented with a field-programmable gate array (FPGA). The Mojo even runs the same Rob Watts–designed digital filter as its dearer stablemate, and its USB input is compatible with PCM up to 192kHz and DSD up to 11.29MHz (DSD256). No less striking are its three matte-surface glass control balls, which change color to indicate various functions and statuses. Used by JA with a variety of partnering gear—the Audeze LCD-X headphones suited it especially well—the Mojo "combined authoritative, well-defined low frequencies with smooth, detailed highs and excellent soundstaging." JA the measurer confirmed "performance that is superb for a portable device, and would not be out of place in a high-priced conventional D/A processor." But the last word goes to JA the listener: "Wow!" (Vol.39 No.2 WWW)
> ...


 

 They are pretty much right on for the Mojo but for some other things they have in class A and B, I am not sure what they were drinking when they gave the ratings.


----------



## Xeculus

austinvalentine said:


> But I wouldn't be worried about the LC making a warm rig sound gooey, syrupy, or overly romantic. At the same time, *I wouldn't use the LC to tame a bright DAC or headphone. It's just not going to do that*. Stock HD800 owners that are hoping for some treble relief should probably take note.


----------



## reddog

xeculus said:


>



The best I have ever heard the legendary HD800 has been with Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I am so taken by the sound, that I have ordered a LAU and hopefully, when the amp arrives in the fall I will have a HD800 waiting.  I thought the Liquid Carbon did a great job of running my MrSpeaker's ETHER and ETHER C. And my Alpha Primes sounded sublime out of either my Liquid Crimson or the Liquid Glass.


----------



## Allanmarcus

I finally got my LC, and I like it. I spend some time with my T1's comparing my Crack (with warmer tubes), my Oppo HA-1, and the LC. My ability to distinguish sullies if not great, but I will say the LC sounds more like the Crack and less like the Oppo. I was using the Oppose DAC to dive all three, so other than cables between the Oppo and the amps, everything was the same.
  
 I also use a friends HD800 (@kavasc) and felt the difference was a little more pronounced, in the the LC was definitely warmer than the oppo amp. Kavasc's also had very good impressions of the LC (he borrowed it for a weekend). I believe he has a Lyr2 with both LISST and traditional tubes. His ears are more than 30 years younger than mine, so I trust him when he says he LC sounds better then the Lry2.
  
 I know to some the differences between the Oppo HA-1 and the LC are "night and day", but to me the differences are subtle, but there.


----------



## swspiers

reddog said:


> xeculus said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...




Hey old buddy, you going with the Classic 800 or the S? Don't take my word for it, but try to listen to the S before you throw down the $$$ if you already haven't done so.


----------



## reddog

swspiers said:


> Hey old buddy, you going with the Classic 800 or the S? Don't take my word for it, but try to listen to the S before you throw down the $$$ if you already haven't done so.



Sweet I need to try the HD800S, before I purchase either one. I have heard good things about the S and need to demo it. Thanks for the heads up my friend.


----------



## Xeculus

reddog said:


> The best I have ever heard the legendary HD800 has been with Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I am so taken by the sound, that I have ordered a LAU and hopefully, when the amp arrives in the fall I will have a HD800 waiting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Alas, LAu is far out of my price range
  
 I have definitely heard great things about the LC though. Even had a few people say they prefer it to the new 2nd gen Woo WA7, which is not a bad pairing for the 800
  


allanmarcus said:


> I also use a friends HD800 (@kavasc) and felt the difference was a little more pronounced, in the the LC was definitely warmer than the oppo amp. Kavasc's also had very good impressions of the LC (he borrowed it for a weekend). I believe he has a Lyr2 with both LISST and traditional tubes. His ears are more than 30 years younger than mine, so I trust him when he says he LC sounds better then the Lry2.


 
  
 Does the LC dampen the 800 treble at all? Right now with my M2U, I only find it an issue in a few cases, usually brightly mastered tracks


----------



## x RELIC x

allanmarcus said:


> I finally got my LC, and I like it. I spend some time with my T1's comparing my Crack (with warmer tubes), my Oppo HA-1, and the LC. My ability to distinguish sullies if not great, but I will say the LC sounds more like the Crack and less like the Oppo. I was using the Oppose DAC to dive all three, so other than cables between the Oppo and the amps, everything was the same.
> 
> I also use a friends HD800 (@kavasc
> ) and felt the difference was a little more pronounced, in the the LC was definitely warmer than the oppo amp. Kavasc's also had very good impressions of the LC (he borrowed it for a weekend). I believe he has a Lyr2 with both LISST and traditional tubes. His ears are more than 30 years younger than mine, so I trust him when he says he LC sounds better then the Lry2.
> ...




Just to add, I find that using a separate DAC the differences are a little larger between the HA-1 amp and the Liquid Carbon IMO. Feeding the HA-1 or Liquid Carbon with the DAC-19 or the Mojo it's a different ballgame. The Sabre implementation in the HA-1 is good, but not all the way there when talking about detail retrieval and timbre. Amos pretty much nailed it in his review of the HA-1 speaking about the DAC section.

Funny enough, I'm currently feeding the Liquid Crimson with the DAC-19 and Mojo and both are very much in the same ballpark, however I'd give a _slight_ edge to the Mojo.


----------



## shultzee

x relic x said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I finally got my LC, and I like it. I spend some time with my T1's comparing my Crack (with warmer tubes), my Oppo HA-1, and the LC. My ability to distinguish sullies if not great, but I will say the LC sounds more like the Crack and less like the Oppo. I was using the Oppose DAC to dive all three, so other than cables between the Oppo and the amps, everything was the same.
> ...


 

 Interesting on the dacs.   I was considering the dac-19 but already have the mojo and have a Crimson on the way.


----------



## Allanmarcus

xeculus said:


> reddog said:
> 
> 
> > The best I have ever heard the legendary HD800 has been with Cavalli Audio Liquid Gold. I am so taken by the sound, that I have ordered a LAU and hopefully, when the amp arrives in the fall I will have a HD800 waiting.
> ...


 

 To me, it's very very subtle. As X Relic X pointed out, there may be some synergy with other DACs. For those that can hear the subtle differences between DACs, the Oppo is considered a tad bright, possibly harsh. It's possible the LC is doing more, but the DAC is in the way. 
  
 If you are expecting 3db lower at 6khz, I think you will be disappointed. 
  
 Now, that said, I just played tear in heaven (unplugged) with an HD800 and the LC is noticeably smoother. I think the difference is more noticeable with the HD800 than with my other cans (PMx2, T1, Ether C). I run all the cans with balanced cables, BTW, and the same cable (Sommer SC-Peacock MKII).


----------



## x RELIC x

shultzee said:


> Interesting on the dacs.   I was considering the dac-19 but already have the mojo and have a Crimson on the way.




Personally, I prefer not to deal with battery management on the Mojo in a desktop environment and am quite satisfied with the DAC-19. Either way it'll be courses for horses and both will do very well.


----------



## shultzee

x relic x said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting on the dacs.   I was considering the dac-19 but already have the mojo and have a Crimson on the way.
> ...


 

 Great to hear.  Thanks


----------



## Allanmarcus

Anyone try the DACCord wth the LC? I have a DACCord, but one of the power blocks died . The good doctor is shipping me a replacement, and I get to solder it on! Oh boy. Until then, I just have the oppo and old NuForce Icon dac.
  
 I will try it on Saturday with a Mystique v1 DAC and possibly a Schist Yggdrasil. I'm looking forward to that.


----------



## mscott58

Looking forward to trying the LAu soon. For those who have already - does the HD800 or LCD-3 pair best? Maybe the Ether/Ether-C? Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> Looking forward to trying the LAu soon. For those who have already - does the HD800 or LCD-3 pair best? Maybe the Ether/Ether-C? Cheers




You may get a better reply in one of these two threads as well:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/702014/liquid-gold-2014/180

http://www.head-fi.org/t/802865/cavalli-audio-the-liquid-carbon-upgrade-guide-impressions-tour/375#post_12520487


There's a lot of info in the Carbon upgrade thread. From what I gather it isn't an idea of a better pairing with the headphones you mentioned, more of which headphone gets the biggest change. HD800 seems to be at the top of the list with a significant smoothing of the treble and tightening/boost of the bass. From the reports all of your listed headphones sound great from the LAu. I haven't heard the LAu or the HD800 with it, but that's my takeaway.


----------



## Hansotek

mscott58 said:


> Looking forward to trying the LAu soon. For those who have already - does the HD800 or LCD-3 pair best? Maybe the Ether/Ether-C? Cheers




Should all be fantastic. HD800 is truly magical with the LAu. You really haven't heard that headphone unless you've listened to it on the Gold, Tungsten or Stratus. I've heard both Ethers are great with the Gold as well. I believe Stillhart got to sample both of them, head-to-head on it. LCD-3 isn't really my cup o' tea in general, so can't offer a valid judgement there. The LAu does really light up the orthos though. Sounded great with the Abyss. My thought is, if you like your LCD-3 with the LC, you're going to love it with the LAu.


----------



## wym2

x relic x said:


> Personally, I prefer not to deal with battery management on the Mojo in a desktop environment and am quite satisfied with the DAC-19. Either way it'll be courses for horses and both will do very well.


 
  
 Could you please explain what battery mgt on the mojo presents a problem? Thanks
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)


----------



## x RELIC x

wym2 said:


> Could you please explain what battery mgt on the mojo presents a problem? Thanks
> 
> 
> MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)




It's my paranoia.

I don't want to charge it when it dies in the middle of listening. I don't use battery powered devices plugged in _all the time_ as I've had a few battery powered devices die prematurely in the past after leaving them plugged in all the time for months on end. When unplugged they would only last ~1hr. I'm not saying that's going to happen with the Mojo, I'm saying I'm being cautious. Lithium batteries are typically stressed when plugged in and at near full voltage all the time. The Mojo stops charging at 8.4V and tops up the battery when it reaches 8.2V. That's near full enough for me to not want to leave it plugged in all the time.

I should re-iterate that Chord has developed the Mojo's battery over 3 years specifically for the Mojo and they say it's fine to leave it plugged in all the time. Like I said, I'm just being overly cautious.


----------



## Peti

x relic x said:


> Just to add, I find that using a separate DAC the differences are a little larger between the HA-1 amp and the Liquid Carbon IMO. Feeding the HA-1 or Liquid Carbon with the DAC-19 or the Mojo it's a different ballgame. The Sabre implementation in the HA-1 is good, but not all the way there when talking about detail retrieval and timbre. Amos pretty much nailed it in his review of the HA-1 speaking about the DAC section.
> 
> Funny enough, I'm currently feeding the Liquid Crimson with the DAC-19 and Mojo and both are very much in the same ballpark, however I'd give a _slight_ edge to the Mojo.


 

 My man, you are making it really hard for me to decide between the DAC-19 and the Mojo!  One is nearly half the price the other and fits in your pocket, the other one is 5kg and big as a suitcase. I was leaning toward the DAC-19 as I think it would do good to further tame my HD800's highs but now I just really want to give the Mojo a good try.


----------



## Allanmarcus

peti said:


> x relic x said:
> 
> 
> > Just to add, I find that using a separate DAC the differences are a little larger between the HA-1 amp and the Liquid Carbon IMO. Feeding the HA-1 or Liquid Carbon with the DAC-19 or the Mojo it's a different ballgame. The Sabre implementation in the HA-1 is good, but not all the way there when talking about detail retrieval and timbre. Amos pretty much nailed it in his review of the HA-1 speaking about the DAC section.
> ...



I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?


----------



## x RELIC x

peti said:


> My man, you are making it really hard for me to decide between the DAC-19 and the Mojo!  One is nearly half the price the other and fits in your pocket, the other one is 5kg and big as a suitcase. I was leaning toward the DAC-19 as I think it would do good to further tame my HD800's highs but now I just really want to give the Mojo a good try.




Tonality wise the DAC-19 and the Mojo are very close. Timbre and accuracy are very high on both. I've been doing a/b tests between the two DACs using the input selector on the Liquid Crimson (volume matched as close as possible for me) and the differences are _very_ small. The Liquid Carbon, as transparent as it is, will do more for the HD800 than the DACs will. I believe it was Stillhart who reported that he didn't like the HD800 until he tried them with the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## x RELIC x

allanmarcus said:


> I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?




IMO no, nothing comes close in Mojo's price range. The analogue output on the Mojo is basically six small transistors instead of 3 large ones in the Hugo, fully discrete, biased in class A (with no opamps), with the same power output as Hugo, and even better THD specs (0.00017% @3V). The analogue out is extremely simple with very little to it and extremely transparent. I highly doubt you'll save much by removing the analogue out. The Mojo pairs very well with the Liquid Carbon and is tuned slightly smoother (warmer) than the Hugo given its target portable use, but yeah, there's the battery... Ultimately I don't think Chord would erode their 2Cute sales quite yet (even though the Mojo is much better spec'd).


----------



## Allanmarcus

x relic x said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?
> ...




I'd consider a mojo as a DAC, but I don't like that every time I turn it on, I would need to remember to switch it to line mode.


----------



## Peti

That's what I was thinking and hoping about, too! A standalone Chord Mojo DAC with preferably wallwart adaptor to use the USB only for data transmitting. Would just LOVE it!
  
 Thanks for the feedback, Relic! If the differences are indeed so small I might re-think my DAC-19 purchase.


----------



## Hansotek

I got a chance to compare the two (Mojo & DAC-19) with Stillhart a couple of days after CanJam. Where you really notice DAC-19's R2R tonality is on things like crowd noise, hand claps, cymbals and drum timbre. Crowd noise and claps are slightly more realistic/transparent. Cymbals offer more inner resolution overall and slightly more accurate transient attack. Drums and guitars possess a slightly more metallic hue on the Mojo as well, vs. the DAC-19's slightly more woody/natural tonality.

Mojo, on the other hand, possessed a slightly wider dynamic range and deeper blackground. My guess is some of that advantage comes from it running on battery power. 

IIRC, Mojo is a bit more upfront with clarity of the notes vs. the DAC-19's more laid back presentation. Though, once you dive down into the notes themselves, the DAC-19 seems to offer a touch more information.

So, I think it is a matter of subjective taste, really. If you want a bit more color, dynamics and you like to hear your backgrounds a bit more upfront, Mojo is the DAC for you. If you want a little bit better timbre and natural/transparent tonality, you'd probably want the DAC-19.

They are really, ultimately very close on all of these fronts though. IMO, they are both fantastic pieces of equipment.


----------



## Peti

Thanks Hansotek, it was really helpful indeed!


----------



## x RELIC x

allanmarcus said:


> I'd consider a mojo as a DAC, but I don't like that every time I turn it on, I would need to remember to switch it to line mode.




Just touch a volume button once and the setting is remembered. Four clicks down from the line level setting is 1.9V, which is closer to the CD 2V standard than the 3V line level shortcut. Line 'mode' is nothing more than a shortcut to a particular volume.


----------



## dpump

Is it easy to replace the battery on the Mojo? Or do you have to send it off to have it changed? If you can change it yourself I personally wouldn't have a problem using it on the desktop if I left it charging all the time.


----------



## x RELIC x

dpump said:


> Is it easy to replace the battery on the Mojo? Or do you have to send it off to have it changed? If you can change it yourself I personally wouldn't have a problem using it on the desktop if I left it charging all the time.




Better to ask in the Mojo thread (or read the third post in the Mojo thread), but since I mentioned it here earlier I'll answer. 

To replace the Mojo battery you need to take the Mojo to a Chord dealer and it will be a simple swap as it's connected with a pin connector. Like I said, they had the battery specially made with 15Wh (that's Watt hours) and extensive thermal tolerances and you won't be able to find the same quality battery at that size elsewhere. 3 years development for a battery specifically for one device... I'd stick with Chord's solution. They say it's expected to last 10 years or more under normal conditions, but we'll have to see.

Apologies for the off topic. :wink_face:


----------



## maheeinfy

allanmarcus said:


> I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?



Emotiva DC1


----------



## Allanmarcus

maheeinfy said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?
> ...




Thanks. There will be one at the Albuquerque meet this Saturday, so I'll be sure to give it a good audition. 

As for the mojo as a DAC for LC, sounds like "line level" is just a volume, so if I manually set the volume to the designed level, at least that should be remembered. 

Thanks all.


----------



## Allanmarcus

x relic x said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?
> ...




What's the advantage of the 2cute over the mojo as a pure desktop DAC?


----------



## scanspeakman1

maheeinfy said:


> allanmarcus said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to rethink my rig in such a way to keep the LC as the amp, but then I need a DAC. Is the mojo the best DAC available for under $600? I wonder if chord will make a desktop stand alone version of the mojo DAC. If they came out with a $300 mojo DAC, that would really change the game, and be a perfect companion to the LC. Given that is not likely, any other DACs worth considering in the $600 range, assuming the LC as the amp?
> ...




The DAC I am using: Stoner Acoustics EGD. Perfect combo. ESS9018 and balanced out!


----------



## Allanmarcus

scanspeakman1 said:


> maheeinfy said:
> 
> 
> > allanmarcus said:
> ...




I was looking at that weeks ago when you last mentioned it. Any idea when it will be forsale? Are you aware of any reviews?


----------



## mscott58

I've used the Mojo on my desktop system with great success. Regarding the volume setting the Mojo remembers where it was left off, so that's not an issue for me, whether I run it at "line" or some other level, as when you turn it on it just reverts back to where it was. As for the battery, just leaving it plugged in all the time hasn't been an issue - I love the fact that they designed it for that use case, having two USB ports (one for signal and one for power) and no discernible difference in SQ either way IME. I'm not terribly concerned about the battery, as I believe they said it was rated for 10 years worth of cycles or something crazy. 
  
 As for the Mojo's FPGA DAC versus and R2R DAC, I've been playing with the Soekris DAC1101 for a week or two and the differences at a high level are almost exactly as people have been talking about in comparing the Mojo and the DAC19. The Mojo has more detailed image resolution IMHO and is no where near as "hard" as a DS DAC, while the DAC1101 has more of that natural/vinyl type of sound (which is why people love R2R's) but gives up some fine definition. I don't find one specifically better than the other, but different. The FPGA as executed by Chord beats out almost all DS DAC's I've heard, and is a steal for $600, while the DAC1101 is also a great deal IMO for $650, especially given the fact that it is transportable (unlike the DAC19). Both the Mojo and DAC1101 give you a lot of options in terms of portability, which might be good for some, but not for others. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## doctorjazz

I use the Geek Out 1K for my computer DAC, when I'm not near the computer, use the Pono's line out. Both very good sounding with the LC (neither balanced, which, as has been stated ad nauseum, doesn't require a balanced input.


----------



## Hansotek

allanmarcus said:


> Thanks. There will be one at the Albuquerque meet this Saturday, so I'll be sure to give it a good audition.
> 
> As for the mojo as a DAC for LC, sounds like "line level" is just a volume, so if I manually set the volume to the designed level, at least that should be remembered.
> 
> Thanks all.




You talk about setting the line level like it's some complex process. You just turn it on by holding down all three buttons. Not rocket science. I could probably train my cat to do it.


----------



## jarnopp

hansotek said:


> You talk about setting the line level like it's some complex process. You just turn it on by holding down all three buttons. Not rocket science. I could probably train my cat to do it.




Then I need to have your cat over every time I want to listen to music?


----------



## wym2

x relic x said:


> It's my paranoia.
> 
> I don't want to charge it when it dies in the middle of listening. I don't use battery powered devices plugged in _all the time_ as I've had a few battery powered devices die prematurely in the past after leaving them plugged in all the time for months on end. When unplugged they would only last ~1hr. I'm not saying that's going to happen with the Mojo, I'm saying I'm being cautious. Lithium batteries are typically stressed when plugged in and at near full voltage all the time. The Mojo stops charging at 8.4V and tops up the battery when it reaches 8.2V. That's near full enough for me to not want to leave it plugged in all the time.
> 
> I should re-iterate that Chord has developed the Mojo's battery over 3 years specifically for the Mojo and they say it's fine to leave it plugged in all the time. Like I said, I'm just being overly cautious.


 
  
  
 I too had to think thru the best way to use  Mojo. I resolved for myself, like you, not to charge Mojo while using it. Since its on the desktop, and my use habit didn’t have me using it for 5 straight hours, when I have a long break I just turn it off and charge it - even though it won’t be completely charged when I turn it back on. So far I have run it down to close to empty only once. I’m not listening to music all the time- after a while my mind gets tired. Then at the end of the day I charge it over night. 
  
 So far, over all these months, I haven’t noticed any unusual heat or even a lessening of the play time yet. And my use/charge cycle has become more or less routine.
  
 Almost all of my battery use is rechargeable over the last few years. Many of the batteries are lithium which seem to have good use-life, Chord says Mojo is next gen technology so Im not too concerned.
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)


----------



## kingdixon

One thing i noticed with different pairings along side LC,
  
 is that LC is very transparent and has a relaxed sound naturally,
  
 but being very transparent allows it to take the basic signature of the source or dac and build upon,
  
 when i paired it with the x5 > idsd micro > LC , it showed some aggressiveness in the highs with more details and better bass due to the idsd, but directly paired with an x5 it gives a more relaxed sound signature.. LC paired with ZX2 even gave more relaxed and warmer presentation than with x5.
  
 while all setups sounded awesome through LC, i think its more about preferred signature when choosing a source to pair with LC.
  
 just an opinion !


----------



## Hansotek

@Allanmarcus @jarnopp


----------



## Allanmarcus

hansotek said:


> @Allanmarcus
> @jarnopp




Yes, but the manuL is clear that it's not remembered. Also sounds like line out mode is just a volume preset, so just manually setting the volume to the desired level would work. 

Still curious what the difference between the mojo as a DAC and the 2cute


----------



## Hansotek

allanmarcus said:


> Yes, but the manuL is clear that it's not remembered. Also sounds like line out mode is just a volume preset, so just manually setting the volume to the desired level would work.
> 
> Still curious what the difference between the mojo as a DAC and the 2cute



You are correct that it is just a volume setting. Pushing down all three buttons when you turn on the device will take you too that setting every time. If you accidentally turn it on with one button, just turn it off and turn it back on again with all three buttons held down.

Or perhaps you prefer a lower volume setting to feed into you LC. Simply set it where you like it, and you can turn it on and off with one button.


----------



## Stillhart

Iirc, the 2cute is the same dac as the Hugo TT, including the galvanic isolation.


----------



## Allanmarcus

stillhart said:


> Iirc, the 2cute is the same dac as the Hugo TT, including the galvanic isolation.


 
  
 Does galvanic isolation really matter since the mojo's power is complete separate from the data?


----------



## Stillhart

You might want to ask in a thread dedicated to one of the three products under discussion...


----------



## fiascogarcia

allanmarcus said:


> Thanks. There will be one at the Albuquerque meet this Saturday, so I'll be sure to give it a good audition.
> 
> As for the mojo as a DAC for LC, sounds like "line level" is just a volume, so if I manually set the volume to the designed level, at least that should be remembered.
> 
> Thanks all.


 
  
  


hansotek said:


> You are correct that it is just a volume setting. Pushing down all three buttons when you turn on the device will take you too that setting every time. If you accidentally turn it on with one button, just turn it off and turn it back on again with all three buttons held down.
> 
> Or perhaps you prefer a lower volume setting to feed into you LC. Simply set it where you like it, and you can turn it on and off with one button.


 
 Don't know about Mojo, but LC clips with Hugo at the preset line level out (white light).  I've adjusted mine to the green level (which is default volume on Hugo when you turn it on)  for optimum sq, to my ears.


----------



## Hansotek

fiascogarcia said:


> Don't know about Mojo, but LC clips with Hugo at the preset line level out (white light).  I've adjusted mine to the green level (which is default volume on Hugo when you turn it on)  for optimum sq, to my ears.




I haven't had that issue with the mojo. I do agree that the Hugo works better as a source at a lower volume.


----------



## jarnopp

hansotek said:


> I haven't had that issue with the mojo. I do agree that the Hugo works better as a source at a lower volume.




I haven't had that issue either. I usually listen 3-4 clicks below line level from Mojo into LC, which provides vol pot range of about 10-2, depending on material, driving HE-6s. But I believe max output without clipping would be achieved with a few clicks above line out into LC, closer to 4v.


----------



## Peti

I can't remember where did I read it, but some people reported that by using the Mojo hooked up to another amp, they have reached the best sound quality by lowering down the volume on Mojo to very low levels. I have yet to try that, but I think anyone who has Mojo and LC should try it once to see if it is true.


----------



## jlbrach

I am one who recommended setting the Hugo to the green start up volume and adjusting the volume on the LC...I have found it allows it to breathe a bit and the sound is less harsh and open sounding but that is me....of course there are cans that due to lack of efficiency will not allow this and force you to set the Hugo or Mojo volume a bit higher


----------



## Hansotek

peti said:


> I can't remember where did I read it, but some people reported that by using the Mojo hooked up to another amp, they have reached the best sound quality by lowering down the volume on Mojo to very low levels. I have yet to try that, but I think anyone who has Mojo and LC should try it once to see if it is true.



I've mentioned this a couple times as well. 3V is a pretty "hot" line. You'll get a little more of the LCs sound by lowering the mojos output.


----------



## Peti

I wish they just offered a standalone Mojo DAC!


----------



## Hansotek

peti said:


> I wish they just offered a standalone Mojo DAC!



Uhhhh.... That's pretty much what the Mojo is. It just has a variable output so you can use it as an "amp" directly, but there's no separate amp section to it. It is, in fact, a standalone DAC.

FWIW, it's probably the best DAC you can get for $599 or less, it doubles as a portable all-in-one, and it gives you a light and crispy SE option to pair with the warm and creamy LC sound. IMO, they are a phenomenal match AND complimentary equipment combo.


----------



## Xeculus

hansotek said:


> Uhhhh.... That's pretty much what the Mojo is. It just has a variable output so you can use it as an "amp" directly, but there's no separate amp section to it. It is, in fact, a standalone DAC.
> 
> FWIW, it's probably the best DAC you can get for $599 or less, it doubles as a portable all-in-one, and it gives you a light and crispy SE option to pair with the warm and creamy LC sound. IMO, they are a phenomenal match AND complimentary equipment combo.


 
  
 Would the Mojo be better for the LC than the Bifrost?


----------



## mscott58

xeculus said:


> Would the Mojo be better for the LC than the Bifrost?


 
 Yes IMHO. I really like the sound of the Mojo. Cheers


----------



## shultzee

xeculus said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Uhhhh.... That's pretty much what the Mojo is. It just has a variable output so you can use it as an "amp" directly, but there's no separate amp section to it. It is, in fact, a standalone DAC.
> ...


 

 In my opinion yes.   Had the Bitfrost and currently have the mojo.


----------



## Hansotek

xeculus said:


> Would the Mojo be better for the LC than the Bifrost?



I prefer the sound of the Mojo, personally. Some of the comments I made about the Mojo vs. DAC-19 a couple of posts ago still apply, though Bimby isn't quite at the same level as the DAC-19 in overall sound quality.

Vs. Mojo, you get a little better timbre and a little more information inside the notes on Bimby. On Mojo, you get more dynamics, impact, detailed sound, bigger soundstage and deeper blackground. Overall, however, the differences are fairly small.


----------



## swspiers

I'm kinda glad I'm happy with my DAC...


----------



## Allanmarcus

I realize I don't have the best DAC (Oppo HA-1), but it does let me compare three amps easily (Oppo HA-1 amp, LC through balance DAC out, and Crack through unbalanced RCA out). After listening all afternoon with an HD800 and an T1, I feel the LC is in-between the HA-1 and the Crack. The LC is a bit smoother than the HA-1, abut not quite as bass impactful as the Crack. I imagine (as has been pointed out) a better DAC pairing might help the LC, but I imagine it would also help the others.
  
 As for the T1, I don't think the LC and the T1 (gen 1) is a good pairing. I just never felt the LC could dig deep enough to make the bass notes in Peel Me a Grape (Krall) reverberate in my chest like my Crack can. Also, the LC can drive the T1 loud, but not really loud like it can the other headphones. I would probably not listen to the T1 on full volume with the LC, but I was able to. I wasn't able to with the other headphones. I haven't heard too many comments on the T1.g1 here, so I imagine it's not a common pairing. The Crack is a great paring with the T1, and I imagine any other power tube amp might be too.
  
 For the PMx2, the LC is a bit smoother than the Oppo HA-1, and able to drive the cans to ear splitting volumes. To me, the difference between the HA-1 and the LC is not as pronounced with the PMx2.
  
 For the ether C, even less of a difference to me between the two SS amps. Maybe the Ether C is more forgiving, 
  
 Of course I'm comparing a $1200 DAC/Amp/Preamp with many features to a dedicated $800 amp. These impressions may only be valid when using these combinations, which most will not do. The more probable paring with the LC is a Mojo, a Modi, or a Bitfrost, or similar. 
  
  It seems to me the LC might be more better with female vocalists than male ones. 
  
 Just my impressions. YMMV. No; your milage _will_ vary. 

  
 I also compared the LC to my iFi iCan Nano, but only with the Ether C, single-ended. I was just starting to test between the amps, and I was pretty darned impressed with the iCan, when my LC decided to die .
  
 Now there is massive static no matter what. Balanced in, RCA in, Balanced or SE out. I never had both SE and Balance plugged in at the same time, either on the front or the back. Major bummer, as I was going to take the LC to a meet on Saturday and others there might have purchased one. Any ideas?


----------



## harpo1

Sounds like your LC will take a trip to Texas.


----------



## doctorjazz

like my Regen/Geek Out 1K, Pono as sources, pretty inexpensive, even if you get all 3...and you can put the Pono in your pocked, listen anywhere, and be on the receiving end of "is that a Pono in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me..." jokes


----------



## Hansotek

Yup. Looks like you're going to have to send it in Allanmarcus. Sorry to hear.


----------



## Hansotek

doctorjazz said:


> like my Regen/Geek Out 1K, Pono as sources, pretty inexpensive, even if you get all 3...and you can put the Pono in your pocked, listen anywhere, and be on the receiving end of "is that a Pono in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me..." jokes




"Is that a Pono in your pocket, or are you about to pop a Toblerone?"


----------



## doctorjazz

Speaking of Pono, I see on the Pono thread Frys is having one of their sales, they offer the Pono at times for $249, great deal imo. You have to subscribe to their newsletter, then they have a code for it. At $249, think it is quite a bargain. I've taken it to meets as a source for my MicroZOTL2 and LC, get great responses from people who listen. Just sayin'...


----------



## gr8soundz

That's how they got me. Spent $249 on the Pono and, after hearing it balanced, I've spent much more on balanced cables and equipment including placing an LC order.


----------



## doctorjazz

As I said on the Pono thread, I'd consider getting a back up one if I didn't already have an X3, DX90 (like Pono better than these), an iPod Mini, and an LH Labs Wave coming (the end of the world may come first, though...:mad: )
I have lots of gear, don't think there's anything I've used more, listen to it every day. Don't have that many balanced cables, have used it balanced into HE-1000 and it drives it nicely (though I still prefer LC or ZOTL, then I just use the line out of the Pono).


----------



## gr8soundz

doctorjazz said:


> As I said on the Pono thread, I'd consider getting a back up one


 
  
 LOL. I was just thinking that same thing (again) about an hour ago. Asked myself how much lower the price would have to go before I'd buy another just as a backup?
  
 Been using my new T1.2s balanced with it the past few days. I wonder how much better they'll sound balanced out of the LC?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Just a follow up. I corresponded with Alex and Cavalli is going to fix my LC. As expected, excellent customer service.


----------



## defbear

I recently sent my LC in for an adjustment. Alex only had the amp 2 days. Alex makes it fairly painless.


----------



## jlbrach

LC and Mojo or Hugo is head and shoulders better than the Oppo HA-1..and i say that as one who liked my HA-1.....the fact that i can take the combo with me when i travel makes it invaluable to me


----------



## fiascogarcia

defbear said:


> I recently sent my LC in for an adjustment. Alex only had the amp 2 days. Alex makes it fairly painless.


 
 That gives me peace of mind knowing they jump on any problem we might have!


----------



## mandrake50

doctorjazz said:


> Speaking of Pono, I see on the Pono thread Frys is having one of their sales, they offer the Pono at times for $249, great deal imo. You have to subscribe to their newsletter, then they have a code for it. At $249, think it is quite a bargain. I've taken it to meets as a source for my MicroZOTL2 and LC, get great responses from people who listen. Just sayin'...


 

 Link ?
 THX


----------



## Stillhart

mandrake50 said:


> Link ?
> THX


http://bfy.tw/5TSs


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks, @Stillhart, beat me to the link, was exercising. But it is the music source I use the most.


----------



## mandrake50

stillhart said:


> http://bfy.tw/5TSs


 

 Very helpful... Got the same results I got before I asked...
 I appreciate being pointed in the right direction....


----------



## Peti

Hey folks, I have been thinking if I bring my Liquid Carbon over to Europe (which I bought and used in the US) can I use it on 220V?
  
 Thanks


----------



## sujitsky

peti said:


> Hey folks, I have been thinking if I bring my Liquid Carbon over to Europe (which I bought and used in the US) can I use it on 220V?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 mine works fine in europe.


----------



## Peti

sujitsky said:


> mine works fine in europe.


 

 You mean you have been using it both in the US AND Europe?


----------



## bearFNF

peti said:


> Hey folks, I have been thinking if I bring my Liquid Carbon over to Europe (which I bought and used in the US) can I use it on 220V?
> 
> Thanks



In one of the many Carbon threads Alex confirmed that all you need is the right cord and it will work.
Ah here it is: http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available/960#post_12078266


----------



## Allanmarcus

If england leaves the EU, I don't think you can use it there!


----------



## scanspeakman1

peti said:


> Hey folks, I have been thinking if I bring my Liquid Carbon over to Europe (which I bought and used in the US) can I use it on 220V?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Sure! The liquid carbon has a SMPS and is able to use anything from 85-270v. Just use an appropriote power cord and you are ready to go. Thats one of the reasons I bought it; I travel a lot for work and need to use it on both 110v and 230v.

 Scanspeakman


----------



## Peti

Yay, thanks for the replies guys! England is NOT going to leave the EU btw! That would hurt the whole Euro-Atlantic community as a whole, yep, including North America.


----------



## maheeinfy

Was reading the manual, and noticed somthing interesting
After poweron, its best to let warmup the amp for about 15min, although its not mandatory. 

Wonder what happens in that warmup period?


----------



## AxelCloris

maheeinfy said:


> Was reading the manual, and noticed somthing interesting
> After poweron, its best to let warmup the amp for about 15min, although its not mandatory.
> 
> Wonder what happens in that warmup period?


 

 Like many electronics, amps have an optimal operating temperature. When an amp is properly designed they're built so that the optimal temp is reached after it's been on for a bit, 15 minutes in the case of the Liquid Carbon. It'll sound good when turned on but better yet once it reached the intended temperatures.


----------



## Allanmarcus

maheeinfy said:


> Was reading the manual, and noticed somthing interesting
> After poweron, its best to let warmup the amp for about 15min, although its not mandatory.
> 
> Wonder what happens in that warmup period?


Here's what happens. The internal components get warmer.


----------



## sujitsky

peti said:


> You mean you have been using it both in the US AND Europe?




I have. Just switch to a local power cable.


----------



## Koolpep

maheeinfy said:


> Was reading the manual, and noticed somthing interesting
> After poweron, its best to let warmup the amp for about 15min, although its not mandatory.
> 
> Wonder what happens in that warmup period?




The cavalli minions wake up and go to work.


----------



## Peridot

maheeinfy said:


> Was reading the manual, and noticed somthing interesting
> After poweron, its best to let warmup the amp for about 15min, although its not mandatory.
> 
> Wonder what happens in that warmup period?


 
  
 It's the time taken for the smoke to get pumped around all the internal parts of the amplifier.
  
 Some people dispute that smoke makes all electronic components work.
  
 However, it's easily proven by the fact that whenever the smoke leaks out of a device it always stops working


----------



## rocketron

Brilliant.


----------



## ejong7

Just a question to Carbon + Ether/Ether C owners do you guys usually listen in low or high gain?


----------



## pippen99

ejong7 said:


> Just a question to Carbon + Ether/Ether C owners do you guys usually listen in low or high gain?


 
 I listen in low gain.


----------



## scanspeakman1

pippen99 said:


> I listen in low gain.


 

 Me too. Low gain more than enough for Ether. I am never listening louder than 9.00.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## wym2

scanspeakman1 said:


> Me too. Low gain more than enough for Ether. I am never listening louder than 9.00.
> 
> Scanspeakman


 
  
 I listen in high gain.
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)


----------



## Hansotek

wym2 said:


> I listen in high gain.
> 
> 
> MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)


 
  
 This all comes down to source volume. IIRC, Scan's Stoner Acoustics DAC has about 50% more output voltage (like 4.5V or so, compared to Mojo's 3V line level). FWIW, 4.5V is a crazy high source level.


----------



## defbear

ejong7 said:


> Just a question to Carbon + Ether/Ether C owners do you guys usually listen in low or high gain?


I listen to my ether-c's in low gain. What I have found, and others have stated is: Low gain gives a bigger soundstage, high gain has more punch or Prat. Low gain is Pratty enough  Besides, change is only a push button away. Watch you ears doing that though.


----------



## ejong7

defbear said:


> I listen to my ether-c's in low gain. What I have found, and others have stated is: Low gain gives a bigger soundstage, high gain has more punch or Prat. Low gain is Pratty enough
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha I was asking because I seem to found a tendency to switch the gain up depending on the track. I agree with your general opinion about the difference.


----------



## pippen99

hansotek said:


> This all comes down to source volume. IIRC, Scan's Stoner Acoustics DAC has about 50% more output voltage (like 4.5V or so, compared to Mojo's 3V line level). FWIW, 4.5V is a crazy high source level.


 
 That has been my thinking>  My Auralic Vega has an output of 4.1V or something like that.  Very hot.


----------



## Hansotek

pippen99 said:


> That has been my thinking>  My Auralic Vega has an output of 4.1V or something like that.  Very hot.


 
  
 The Vega is nice! Oh yeah. That's about twice the voltage of many sources. Big difference there.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

pippen99 said:


> That has been my thinking>  My Auralic Vega has an output of 4.1V or something like that.  Very hot.


 
  
 Doesn't the Vega have a pot?


----------



## pippen99

buttuglyjeff said:


> Doesn't the Vega have a pot?


 
 Yes I run it at 95 with the LC and at 70 when using the WA5.  That gives me a little room with the LC to adjust using the remote.


----------



## Greggo

Well, here goes nothing 
  
 I just pulled the trigger on the LC and now begins my transition to a new system and a new lineup of headphones...
  
  
 For those of you with a sympathetic ear and some time on your hands, here is my quick rant on my journey and recent struggles:
  
 I currently have a bunch of low to upper mid-fi headphones and the Gustard stack to drive them, along with a few Dragonflies and a Meridian Explorer. I have not been all that happy for a while now and searching hard on how to change things up in a big way. I know that I need at least a couple of options regarding headphones for changing moods or just giving my ears and head a break after a few hours with something that fits and feels just different enough provide some relief. The big challenge has been finding a collection of components that should work well enough together while also providing a taste of true end game performance.
  
 Options I have been researching:
  
 1) DAP with a HEX and then backed up with a few other really efficient headphones like a Nighthawk, PM-2 or PM-3, etc...
 2) Mojo with a HEX or Ether and other options similar to above
 3) Gimby > Mjo2 > HD800S or Ether, and then ???
 4) ??? > LC > HD800S or Ether and then backed up by EL-8 Open (I think this one needs just a bit more than the typical DAP but probably great on a Mojo), Nighthawk, PM-2 or 3, etc...
  
 I am obviously going with Option #4 above, and after a lot of back and forth on various forums I am also just going to go for the HD800S despite my very rocky relationship with my my HD700.
  
 So what is my rationale? And I am interested in hearing any pushback or alternatives as that will certainly help me and possibly others.
  
 First of all, I am confident the LC gets me as close to an end game amp as I will want to go and gives me the low footprint on my desktop that I would like to see. I like that it is SS but still somewhat warm and smooth, that it is a bit unique/boutique/niche in the grand scheme of things, and seems to do really well with a variety of headphones but most importantly will do justice to the HD800S and give me a world class headphone experience.
  
 I happen to still have a NAD D 1050 sitting around, so I will use this for a while and see how the DAC market continues to evolve. The D 1050 will provide even more bass help to the HD800S while still being as good as most DACs in other respects though clearly not a TOTL contender. Kind of cool that it has balanced output but I know that is not all that important to the LC.
  
 The nighthawk is my safety headphone, very light, comfortable, speaker like and great bass (more than enough for me) in case the HD800S leaves me wanting a bit for pop music and will be the late night headphone when I don't feel like having every detail put in front of me by the HD800S. It will do well out of a Dragonfly and I think will sound great out of the LC as well.
  
 I must have just gotten lucky because my particular EL-8 Open has a very reasonably behaved upper mid through upper treble, no complaints here and given all my other headphones I would definitely know it if something was off. I like them a bit more than the HE-560 tour demo I tried out. Yes, I would probably rather have an Ether or Ether C, but these will do until any one of the planar companies come out with the next big thing and from all the feedback I have read I think the LC will handle most any planar headphone quite well.
  
 So that's my story and I am sticking to it. I will hang onto my EL-8 and Dragonfly 1.2, sell everything else, buy the nighthawks, then later take delivery on the LC and then once I have spent a bunch of time with those two headphones and the LC, bring on a set of HD800S and see if that takes everything to a whole new level. A little further down the road, maybe an AK300 for some travel options since the EL-8 folds flat and maybe I add a PM-3 by then as well. Hopefully I can contain my side grade and up grade sickness much better with this new plan.


----------



## wym2

hansotek said:


> This all comes down to source volume. IIRC, Scan's Stoner Acoustics DAC has about 50% more output voltage (like 4.5V or so, compared to Mojo's 3V line level). FWIW, 4.5V is a crazy high source level.


 
  
 As you know the Mojo line level out is for all intents and purpose adjustable, I prefer a lower level: 1.9v out, when feeding the LC.
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)


----------



## Hansotek

wym2 said:


> As you know the Mojo line level out is for all intents and purpose adjustable, I prefer a lower level: 1.9v out, when feeding the LC.
> 
> 
> MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)



Yup


----------



## musiclvr

I sold my LC Gen 1 simply because I could not enjoy my lower impedance/efficient HPs due to the known hum. I experienced said him with my Focal Spirit Pros, B&O H6s, B&W P5.2, etc. So I'm glad they have come out with 2nd gen with a quiet power supply. As much as I enjoy my balanced headphones, I would like to enjoy my single ended ones as well; maybe even iems too. So am looking forward to this Upgrade of the LC for $200.00. I hope it'll be worth it.


----------



## defbear

My LC was from the first batch. The SE output had a big hum at volume. I contacted Alex Cavalli who had me send mine in. He had it for only two days and sent it back. It no longer hums. I was only told that mine was 'modded'. I do not think a new power supply was put in. I'm very happy with the result. I think a better power supply could result in sonic benefits. So could the nicer power cable now included.


----------



## Hansotek

defbear said:


> My LC was from the first batch. The SE output had a big hum at volume. I contacted Alex Cavalli who had me send mine in. He had it for only two days and sent it back. It no longer hums. I was only told that mine was 'modded'. I do not think a new power supply was put in. I'm very happy with the result. I think a better power supply could result in sonic benefits. So could the nicer power cable now included.




Happy to hear that was resolved for you.


----------



## tvnosaint

Very happy with the synergy of the LC with the zmf omni. The bass is very tight and controlled. The mids take the foreground more than with anything I've tried with the omni so far.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

tvnosaint said:


> Very happy with the synergy of the LC with the zmf omni. The bass is very tight and controlled. The mids take the foreground more than with anything I've tried with the omni so far.


 
  
 I hope to make the same pairing eventually.  But my needs are for a DAC first.  May I ask what DAC you use?


----------



## tvnosaint

The nm24 from monarchy. It's a tubed multibit using the pcm1704. It's sounds amazing with both the Lyr and the LC


----------



## gr8soundz

musiclvr said:


> I sold my LC Gen 1 simply because I could not enjoy my lower impedance/efficient HPs due to the known hum. I experienced said him with my Focal Spirit Pros, B&O H6s, B&W P5.2, etc. So I'm glad they have come out with 2nd gen with a quiet power supply. As much as I enjoy my balanced headphones, I would like to enjoy my single ended ones as well; maybe even iems too. So am looking forward to this Upgrade of the LC for $200.00. I hope it'll be worth it.


 


defbear said:


> My LC was from the first batch. The SE output had a big hum at volume. I contacted Alex Cavalli who had me send mine in. He had it for only two days and sent it back. It no longer hums. I was only told that mine was 'modded'. I do not think a new power supply was put in. I'm very happy with the result. I think a better power supply could result in sonic benefits. So could the nicer power cable now included.


 
  
 My current amp has a low hiss/hum but only with my more sensitive headphones.
  
 I was hoping the LC would solve that problem but sounds like it won't.


----------



## doctorjazz

tvnosaint said:


> Very happy with the synergy of the LC with the zmf omni. The bass is very tight and controlled. The mids take the foreground more than with anything I've tried with the omni so far.




Listening to the Omni, mostly with the MicroZOTL, but have the balanced cables for the LC as well, will get to that one of these days...


----------



## defbear

gr8soundz said:


> My current amp has a low hiss/hum but only with my more sensitive headphones.
> 
> I was hoping the LC would solve that problem but sounds like it won't.


My SE 1/4 output now has a black background just like the balanced output. Mine was easily adjusted. The new amps have a better power supply. Contact Cavalli if you are having an issue and allow him to rectify it.


----------



## Greggo

I am secretly hoping the new power supply and general parts/process review might result in slightly stronger bass but I will never know the difference anyways... I will be very happy to just have a solid amp that lives up to the past reviews/feedback and performs free of any defects.
  
 LAST DAY TO ORDER!
  
 I jumped on the bus yesterday, now the waiting begins 
  
 Going to see if I can raise some extra bucks for a new headphone or two while I pass the time.


----------



## shultzee

greggo said:


> I am secretly hoping the new power supply and general parts/process review might result in slightly stronger bass but I will never know the difference anyways... I will be very happy to just have a solid amp that lives up to the past reviews/feedback and performs free of any defects.
> 
> LAST DAY TO ORDER!
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats.  I think you will be very pleased.


----------



## Wayde

greggo said:


> LAST DAY TO ORDER!
> 
> I jumped on the bus yesterday, now the waiting begins
> 
> Going to see if I can raise some extra bucks for a new headphone or two while I pass the time.


 
  
 Jumped on the bus on the last day! Just checking to see what the buzz is over here. I'm giddy with anticipation.
  
 Can't wait for the day I get to pull on the t-shirt and wire up the new box.


----------



## Hansotek

wayde said:


> Jumped on the bus on the last day! Just checking to see what the buzz is over here. I'm giddy with anticipation.
> 
> Can't wait for the day I get to pull on the t-shirt and wire up the new box.


 
  
 Congrats! It's a killer amp. I jumped on late in the first run (#448/500), and I'm really glad I did.


----------



## jlbrach

i got one from the original batch and it had to go back to be repaired for a volume pot issue....once i got it back i have been very pleased...great amp and i take it with me when i go on a trip and it is the closest thing to my desktop amp i have ever had on the road......i use it with my hugo and absolutely love it driving HEK's or HD800S's....wonderful product


----------



## Xeculus

Pulled the trigger at 11:57 CST
  
 NO REGRETS


----------



## x RELIC x

xeculus said:


> Pulled the trigger at 11:57 CST
> 
> NO REGRETS




Right under the wire, LOL!

Congrats!!


----------



## defbear

xeculus said:


> Pulled the trigger at 11:57 CST
> 
> NO REGRETS


Practically like the end of an Ebay Auction. Ok, usually last 3 seconds but still. Congrats. Go forth and be Balanced


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

xeculus said:


> Pulled the trigger at 11:57 CST
> 
> NO REGRETS


 
  
 Maybe you'll get the vary last one..... 
  
 Seriously, ordering 2 amps at once.  Very impressive.


----------



## Xeculus

Me last night: 
11:50p "I don't need this amp"
11:53p reopens webpage 
11:55p "but it's LIMITED edition"
11:57p "ah screw it"

On second thought, I probably shouldn't have ordered 2 warm solid state amps 

On third thought, now I have an amp for the bedroom


----------



## doctorjazz

xeculus said:


> Me last night:
> 11:50p "I don't need this amp"
> 11:53p reopens webpage
> 11:55p "but it's LIMITED edition"
> ...




I'm a big believer in the bedroom/bedside system...


----------



## tvnosaint

Me too! Especially when the Mrs is watching DWTS. It also stops me from taking a hit selling equipment


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

xeculus said:


> Me last night:
> 11:50p "I don't need this amp"
> 11:53p reopens webpage
> 11:55p "but it's LIMITED edition"
> ...


 
  
 I bet they will be more different then you think now.  Those are two very different and distinct "house sounds"....


----------



## ModMax

Just grabbed a first gen LC along with a Mojo to drive my Ether C. 
Is there any concensus here on the suggested Mojo line out voltage level to the LC?


----------



## Greggo

First of all congrats, hope you enjoy the rig... I have my eye on both the Mojo (going to wait a bit and see if there are any new contenders this year) and the Ether (but currently targeting HD800S as my next effort, it is still subject to change over the next few months before I pull the trigger).
  
 I have observed here and elsewhere that folks are simply encouraging some experimentation and that many seem to be in agreement that the Mojo is a little hot when set at line level. So the advice seems to be to start off that way, then back it down a click, adjust your amp and listen... back it down another click, adjust your amp and listen... and see if you get better overall sound through your headphone of choice by re-balancing those two gain stages, source and amp. I can't recall the numbers, but there seemed to be some very good "objectivist" logic for backing things down a bit. And in a desktop rig setting, the fact that Mojo remembers your last volume setting makes for a convenient outcome if you take the time to do the experiment.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## AxelCloris

modmax said:


> Just grabbed a first gen LC along with a Mojo to drive my Ether C.
> Is there any concensus here on the suggested Mojo line out voltage level to the LC?


 

 Works fine on the default line out settings with my LC and Ether. It's a bit hot for my active monitors so I have to drop it a bit when I use those. LC handles it like a champ.


----------



## x RELIC x

Line level out from the Mojo is 3V. Four clicks down is 1.9V and much closer to the CD standard of 2V. The Liquid Carbon will handle the 3V level just fine but depending on your headphones you may want to use a lower output for more volume control.


----------



## defbear

I have found amplifiers with a tube preamp are more forgiving to hot signals and can even benefit from being 'driven'.


----------



## tvnosaint

I need to go get some more connex and try that theory.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Hi guys, I would just like to ask for any suggestions regarding the best cable to use in connecting the Hugo to the LC?


----------



## Stillhart

mist3rlao said:


> Hi guys, I would just like to ask for any suggestions regarding the best cable to use in connecting the Hugo to the LC?


 
  
@Hansotek got an Audioquest Big Sur interconnect to use with his Mojo and it's pretty decent.  I guess it's the cheapest one they make with their top-of-the-line copper.  You can swap between it and a cheap cable and hear the improvement.


----------



## Xeculus

> Originally Posted by *Stillhart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> @Hansotek got an Audioquest Big Sur interconnect to use with his Mojo and it's pretty decent.  I guess it's the cheapest one they make with their top-of-the-line copper.  You can swap between it and a cheap cable and hear the improvement.


 
  
 Hey Stillhart,
  
 What's your opinion on the pairing between the HD700 and the LC?


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> @Hansotek
> got an Audioquest Big Sur interconnect to use with his Mojo and it's pretty decent.  I guess it's the cheapest one they make with their top-of-the-line copper.  You can swap between it and a cheap cable and hear the improvement.




Yeah, pretty compelling differences when I A/B'ed that cable with the Monoprice. I'd say the Big Sur really changed my whole mindset on cables. In comparison, the generic cable had a bunch of weird little spots where it would be sort of "pinched", harsh, sibilant or poorly separated. The Big Sur felt easy and musical in comparison.

Mind you, these differences are not night and day. They are subtle, but noticeable. And they become more noticeable as you scale up surrounding gear.

If you are looking for something that is solid, but at a lower price point than the Big Sur, I also think the Wireworld Luna is quite good.


----------



## Solarium

How does the LC compare to the iCAN SE pairing with the HD800, using only single ended non-balanced output? Also, how does it compare to the BH Crack w/ speedball using TS5998 and CBS/Hytron 5814A tubes?


----------



## AxelCloris

hansotek said:


> Yeah, pretty compelling differences when I A/B'ed that cable with the Monoprice. I'd say the Big Sur really changed my whole mindset on cables. In comparison, the generic cable had a bunch of weird little spots where it would be sort of "pinched", harsh, sibilant or poorly separated. The Big Sur felt easy and musical in comparison.
> 
> Mind you, these differences are not night and day. They are subtle, but noticeable. And they become more noticeable as you scale up surrounding gear.
> 
> If you are looking for something that is solid, but at a lower price point than the Big Sur, I also think the Wireworld Luna is quite good.


 

 Does the Luna come in a 3.5mm to RCA design? I've only seen RCA to RCA.


----------



## fiascogarcia

mist3rlao said:


> Hi guys, I would just like to ask for any suggestions regarding the best cable to use in connecting the Hugo to the LC?


 
 I've been real happy with these Forza's.  Bought them from a fellow Head-fier, but I do know they are a silver/copper hybrid.


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> Does the Luna come in a 3.5mm to RCA design? I've only seen RCA to RCA.




Behold.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C78NGPE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1


----------



## Mist3rLao

Thank you for the recommendations! :thumbsup_tone2:

Would an rca to rca be better than the rca to 3.5mm?


----------



## Hansotek

mist3rlao said:


> Thank you for the recommendations! :thumbsup_tone2:
> 
> Would an rca to rca be better than the rca to 3.5mm?




Presumably. AxelCloris was asking because he and I both have the Mojo, which is 3.5mm only.


----------



## AxelCloris

That's correct. I've been considering upgrading the cable between my Mojo and LC.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Oh, yeah! Better go with the 3.5mm to RCA then for my Mojo as well. Thanks for that!


----------



## Stillhart

xeculus said:


> Hey Stillhart,
> 
> What's your opinion on the pairing between the HD700 and the LC?


 
  
 I haven't heard the pairing, sorry.  I sold the HD700 well before I got the LC.  However, I suspect it will pair about as well as the HD700 pairs with anything (meaning if you can deal with the treble peak, it'll sound quite good otherwise!).  This guess is based on how well the LC paird with the HD800.
  


hansotek said:


> Behold.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C78NGPE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1


 
  

  
 This is the first thing that comes to mind any time someone uses that word like that.


----------



## Mist3rLao

@Stillhart good one! LMAO!!!


----------



## chowmein83

xeculus said:


> Hey Stillhart,
> 
> What's your opinion on the pairing between the HD700 and the LC?


 
  
 I'm not Stillhart, but I do have the HD700 and the LC.
  
 In short, it's a pretty good combo. Not the widest soundstage I've heard out of the HD700 (though with this pairing it's still pretty wide) but very deep, and very much allows the HD700 to show off its imaging and layering capabilities. I think the LC does a good job of making the HD700 sound not as fatiguing, but the LC is neutral enough that if you're really sensitive to treble this won't entirely help the headphone.


----------



## Hansotek

chowmein83 said:


> I'm not Stillhart, but I do have the HD700 and the LC.
> 
> In short, it's a pretty good combo. Not the widest soundstage I've heard out of the HD700 (though with this pairing it's still pretty wide) but very deep, and very much allows the HD700 to show off its imaging and layering capabilities. I think the LC does a good job of making the HD700 sound not as fatiguing, but the LC is neutral enough that if you're really sensitive to treble this won't entirely help the headphone.




I've heard from several folks that the stock cable on the HD700 doesn't do it any favors in the treble area and a swap to a higher quality cable yields noticeable improvements.


----------



## maheeinfy

Mojo seems to get lot of love, as source to LC

Fiio X3ii has dedicated line out, and it is supposedly very good. 

Anyone with both Mojo and Fiio care to share impressions?


----------



## sahmen

I paired my HD700/Sennheiser balanced HD700 cable and the LC when I first received the LC, and I remember realizing immediately that this was the smoothest I had heard my HD700 ever sound.  Unfortunately, I have not been able to revisit that combo for a while, because of work and limited availability of time.  However, I can say that they make a very great pair, with the LC taming some of the peaky trebles on the HD700, without sacrificing any of its virtues..


----------



## Hansotek

maheeinfy said:


> Mojo seems to get lot of love, as source to LC
> 
> Fiio X3ii has dedicated line out, and it is supposedly very good.
> 
> Anyone with both Mojo and Fiio care to share impressions?


 
  
 The Mojo sounds way better than the X3ii's line out. They're really no even close. It's better to get a small coax cable that can connect the X3ii & the Mojo, and use that tiny block as your source and DAC into anything you want. It even sounds pretty good plugged into the Crimson, Glass, Gold and Tungsten (though there's still plenty of room to scale up with those amps too!)


----------



## defbear

maheeinfy said:


> Mojo seems to get lot of love, as source to LC
> 
> Fiio X3ii has dedicated line out, and it is supposedly very good.
> 
> Anyone with both Mojo and Fiio care to share impressions?


 
 ​I have the Mojo and a Liquid Carbon. The Mojo is a warm sounding unit. So is the LC. If you are trying to tame some bright headphones this is just the ticket. A person could find this too warm. I have found the SE phase splitter in the Liquid Carbon to work as advertised. Near perfect. Still Dr. Cavalli advises to go with an all balanced setup. Many of us including me have found the Emotiva Stealth Dac 1, with balanced outputs, to be a good pairing with the Liquid Carbon.


----------



## Peridot

defbear said:


> ​I have the Mojo and a Liquid Carbon. The Mojo is a warm sounding unit. So is the LC. If you are trying to tame some bright headphones this is just the ticket. A person could find this too warm. I have found the SE phase splitter in the Liquid Carbon to work as advertised. Near perfect. Still Dr. Cavalli advises to go with an all balanced setup. Many of us including me have found the Emotiva Stealth Dac 1, with balanced outputs, to be a good pairing with the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 I too have found the Emotiva to be a good pairing however I can detect no difference whatsoever between a SE and a balanced connection between the devices.
  
 I really am convinced that it matters not a jot whether the LC is driven from a balanced or SE input, it's the balanced output that's important.
  
 I know that Alex was quite happy to demo the LC at shows using the SE inputs and I haven't personally seen that recommendation to go all balanced.


----------



## doctorjazz

My impression was also to not swear the balanced input because of the splitter. I usually use my Pono line or single ended (it could be used balanced into LC, but I've never gotten these particular cables for that). Sounds just fine.


----------



## defbear

doctorjazz said:


> My impression was also to not swear the balanced input because of the splitter. I usually use my Pono line or single ended (it could be used balanced into LC, but I've never gotten these particular cables for that). Sounds just fine.


 
 As I said, the splitter is near perfect. Got anything in your life that is perfect. Me neither. Can't call it perfect. Do a search. Dr. Cavalli, the builder, has stated, more than once, that all balanced is the way to go. Argue with him about his own amp. That being said, I thew a snit when my SE output was noisy. (Fixed in one week) I use the amp SE in an out, not just balanced. But Dr. Cavalli suggests.....


----------



## Peridot

defbear said:


> ...Do a search. Dr. Cavalli, the builder, has stated, more than once, that all balanced is the way to go. ...


 
  
 I've done a search and all I can find on the subject is -
  


> Originally Posted by *runeight*
> 
> The phase splitter on the Carbon is pretty good and quite faithful to what is coming into the SE inputs.  If a DAC has both Balanced and SE outs and IF these have the same SQ then I don't think you will be able to hear a difference between driving the Carbon SE or Bal. There probably is a slight difference because, after all, the signal is passing through more active elements when using the SE in with splitter, but may be below any audible threshold for most listeners with most headphones, if there at all.
> 
> OTOH, if the source's Bal and SE have different SQ then you should expect to hear this. But don't conclude that, if the SE is of lower quality, the splitter is causing this. It probably isn't. At the same time, the splitter cannot make up for lack of SQ in the SE signal that is coming in. It will put out a Bal signal as faithful to the SE input as it can but it won't try to fix it.


 
  
 I'd appreciate a pointer to the those times that Alex has stated "balanced is the way to go" as I've struggled to find them.


----------



## maheeinfy

defbear said:


> ​I have the Mojo and a Liquid Carbon. The Mojo is a warm sounding unit. So is the LC. If you are trying to tame some bright headphones this is just the ticket. A person could find this too warm. I have found the SE phase splitter in the Liquid Carbon to work as advertised. Near perfect. Still Dr. Cavalli advises to go with an all balanced setup. Many of us including me have found the Emotiva Stealth Dac 1, with balanced outputs, to be a good pairing with the Liquid Carbon.



Thanks, good to know DC1 pairs well with LC. Assume DC1 is neutral? Compared to somthing like Mojo


----------



## defbear

peridot said:


> I've done a search and all I can find on the subject is -
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate a pointer to the those times that Alex has stated "balanced is the way to go" as I've struggled to find them.




Recommended Mode of Operation
The Liquid Carbon amplifier can run with singled ended input and single ended output or a combination of single ended and balanced. However, to get the best performance from this amplifier we recommend that you operate in fully balanced mode from input to output.

Page 7 of the Liquid Carbon owners manual. An unimpeachable source.


----------



## bearFNF

defbear said:


> Recommended Mode of Operation
> The Liquid Carbon amplifier can run with singled ended input and single ended output or a combination of single ended and balanced. However, to get the best performance from this amplifier we recommend that you operate in fully balanced mode from input to output.
> 
> Page 7 of the Liquid Carbon owners manual. An unimpeachable source.


 

 Mine shows it on page 6...


----------



## defbear

bearfnf said:


> Mine shows it on page 6... :blink:


I can't find Support on the Cavalli website. There was a copy on the Shopify website. It is probably First batch vs the New Batch. Don't know. Manual page number vs PDF page number? One of those. I'm glad you have confirmed the information. Thank you.


----------



## bearFNF

defbear said:


> I can't find Support on the Cavalli website. There was a copy on the Shopify website. It is probably First batch vs the New Batch. Don't know. Manual page number vs PDF page number? One of those. I'm glad you have confirmed the information. Thank you.


 

 Ah, I see the difference, they updated it with the warning to turn the volume down when plugging and unplugging sources and headphones.
 Here's the link: http://www.cavalliaudio.com/liquidcarbon/manual
  
 Mine does not have it.


----------



## Peti

sahmen said:


> I paired my HD700/Sennheiser balanced HD700 cable and the LC when I first received the LC, and I remember realizing immediately that this was the smoothest I had heard my HD700 ever sound.  Unfortunately, I have not been able to revisit that combo for a while, because of work and limited availability of time.  However, I can say that they make a very great pair, with the LC taming some of the peaky trebles on the HD700, without sacrificing any of its virtues..




Funny, currently I use my X3 first gen as a dac with the carbon and all I can say it's a step back from the ODAC I have used before. No info on mojo as I haven't had the pleasure for that pairing yet.


----------



## Clemmaster

maheeinfy said:


> Thanks, good to know DC1 pairs well with LC. Assume DC1 is neutral? Compared to somthing like Mojo



The DC-1 is warmer than the Mojo by a long shot.


----------



## sahmen

peti said:


> Funny, currently I use my X3 first gen as a dac with the carbon and all I can say it's a step back from the ODAC I have used before. No info on mojo as I haven't had the pleasure for that pairing yet.


 
 Well, this sounds potentially interesting, except that I am a little puzzled :  I was talking about the HD700 paired with the LC, with the Sennheiser HD700 balanced stock cable, and using the Emotiva Dc-1 as a source.  You only name the X3 as a source, paired with the LC, without naming your headphone, so I am not sure how the comparison you're making or implying is viable...  On the other hand, if every component in the chain of a given headphone rig matters, then I am not sure how you're drawing any conclusion about the LC or the ODAC from the following comparisons:
  
 1. Emotiva DC-1 ===> (bal. XLR) ===>LC ===> (Senn. bal 4pin XLR) ===> HD700  (my rig)
  
 2. Fiio X3 ===> (?) ===>LC ===>  (SE/XLR???) ===>> (Headphones???)?  (your rig)
  
 3. ODAC ===>> (??) ===> (Headphones???) (your rig)
  
 I understand that chain #3 sounded better to you than chain #2, which probably proves that your (unidentified) headphones (provided it is the same one in both experiments, and all other listening conditions were equal) have better synergy with the ODAC than with the X3 + LC combo, which is fine, although I do not think this is proving anything about the inherent quality of the ODAC or the LC as standalone devices.  More importantly, I have not understood what the comparison has to do with chain #1, as the performance of the LC will depend on peripheral components and connectors in each of the 2 chains (#1 and #2).  Not trying to be a smarta**...  I am just looking for more understanding


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> ​I have the Mojo and a Liquid Carbon. The Mojo is a warm sounding unit. So is the LC. If you are trying to tame some bright headphones this is just the ticket. A person could find this too warm. I have found the SE phase splitter in the Liquid Carbon to work as advertised. Near perfect. Still Dr. Cavalli advises to go with an all balanced setup. Many of us including me have found the Emotiva Stealth Dac 1, with balanced outputs, to be a good pairing with the Liquid Carbon.


 
  
 You're the first person I've ever heard call the Mojo warm.  I've heard it myself and I don't find it warm at all.  I'd call it pretty neutral and maybe even slightly bright.  
  
 Can you expand on the sound qualities that you believe make it warm?  Perhaps we're not using the word to mean the same thing...


----------



## Peti

sahmen said:


> Well, this sounds potentially interesting, except that I am a little puzzled :  I was talking about the HD700 paired with the LC, with the Sennheiser HD700 balanced stock cable, and using the Emotiva Dc-1 as a source.  You only name the X3 as a source, paired with the LC, without naming your headphone, so I am not sure how the comparison you're making or implying is viable...  On the other hand, if every component in the chain of a given headphone rig matters, then I am not sure how you're drawing any conclusion about the LC or the ODAC from the following comparisons:
> 
> 1. Emotiva DC-1 ===> (bal. XLR) ===>LC ===> (Senn. bal 4pin XLR) ===> HD700  (my rig)
> 
> ...


 

 My bad! I was going to quote post:
  
 "Mojo seems to get lot of love, as source to LC
 Fiio X3ii has dedicated line out, and it is supposedly very good.
 Anyone with both Mojo and Fiio care to share impressions?"
  
 So you were right on this one. Double shift I did today (from 11pm y'day till 7:00 pm today) so I can make it tomorrow at the Cavalli get-together (http://www.head-fi.org/t/807600/cavalli-audio-presents-the-source-av-s-summer-series-2016/30#post_12582159) and my eyes and mind are not up to par by this time of the day so I'm off to bed now!


----------



## sahmen

peti said:


> My bad! I was going to quote post:
> 
> "Mojo seems to get lot of love, as source to LC
> Fiio X3ii has dedicated line out, and it is supposedly very good.
> ...


 
 No worries... Understood.


----------



## defbear

stillhart said:


> You're the first person I've ever heard call the Mojo warm.  I've heard it myself and I don't find it warm at all.  I'd call it pretty neutral and maybe even slightly bright.
> 
> Can you expand on the sound qualities that you believe make it warm?  Perhaps we're not using the word to mean the same thing...


You may be correct. Sometimes I say Warm when I mean Smooth. I do not think there is a harsh sound in the unit. I spent a couple of hours with the Mojo thi......Oops. LC thread. Would you agree both the Mojo and the Liquid Carbon are Smooth?


----------



## Peridot

defbear said:


> Recommended Mode of Operation
> The Liquid Carbon amplifier can run with singled ended input and single ended output or a combination of single ended and balanced. However, to get the best performance from this amplifier we recommend that you operate in fully balanced mode from input to output.
> 
> Page 7 of the Liquid Carbon owners manual. An unimpeachable source.


 
  
 Fair enough but that's not quite the same as Dr. Cavalli stating more than once that all balanced is the way to go, when he's clearly said on the forum that any difference, if it exists, is likely to be inaudible


----------



## Mist3rLao

It has been mentioned that Dr. Cavalli has been known to pair the LC with the Hugo on some occasions, so if a full balanced set-up is really the way to go, then what could be the possible reason for this? It is definitely in his best interest to showcase the full capability of his creation, right?


----------



## Hansotek

mist3rlao said:


> It has been mentioned that Dr. Cavalli has been known to pair the LC with the Hugo on some occasions, so if a full balanced set-up is really the way to go, then what could be the possible reason for this? It is definitely in his best interest to showcase the full capability of his creation, right?



"Showcase the full capability" is a technical stalemate, in a literal sense. The ability to split an unbalanced signal into a balanced one is a technical capability. Providing a shorter signal path via fully balanced mode is a technical capability. There is no way to showcase both.


----------



## fiascogarcia

mist3rlao said:


> It has been mentioned that Dr. Cavalli has been known to pair the LC with the Hugo on some occasions, so if a full balanced set-up is really the way to go, then what could be the possible reason for this? It is definitely in his best interest to showcase the full capability of his creation, right?


 
 I would imagine that in the case of the Hugo, it's DAC quality is of a high enough standard that it probably offsets any balanced output advantages of other DACs.  Purely speculation on my part.  I use a Hugo, and am so satisfied with it's tonal quality in combo with the LC, that I've not had a real interest in trying a different DAC with a balanced output.  Maybe some day, curiosity will get the better of me.


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> You may be correct. Sometimes I say Warm when I mean Smooth. I do not think there is a harsh sound in the unit. I spent a couple of hours with the Mojo thi......Oops. LC thread. Would you agree both the Mojo and the Liquid Carbon are Smooth?


 
  
 Yes, the Mojo is pretty smooth for a non-R2R DAC.  And no, smooth and warm aren't the same so it's important to make sure to separate those terms.  And I think it's fair game to discuss the tonality of the Mojo when paired with the LC in this thread.


----------



## jlbrach

I was told by Mr Cavalli himself that the connection from the hugo or chord to the LC results in a balanced connection assuming of course you use a balanced headphone cable and the balanced out on the LC...he told me if you used a balanced source DAC into the LC it would result in something like 2 or 3% improvement because it was designed to take any source and give you a balanced signal....at least that was my understanding of the conversation....my hugo sounds terrific with my LC...not quite up to my Yiggy/Moon Neo 430 of course but pretty darn good considering I can take it with me when traveling


----------



## Mist3rLao

@fiascogarcia Excellent point! Makes a whole lotta sense..
  
 @jlbrach that's so good to know, thanks for sharing! Only adds to the excitement..


----------



## Greggo

I don't think we will ever know with any reasonable certainty... I suppose one could argue that by hearing a DAC that offered both balanced and SE output on a significant number of amps (both balanced and SE inputs and outputs) you could determine if the outputs were of equal performance and then try it into the LC both ways to see if there is any difference.
  
 I will be trying my NAD D1050 both ways when my LC arrives in Sep/Oct this year (hopefully), but I won't really know if any difference I may hear is the result of the NAD outputs, the LC inputs, or some unique interaction between the two that may very well be more or less with different DAC. In other words, preference for one or the other will prove nothing in an isolated case. I may prefer balanced, and it could be that the NAD simply performs better out through the balanced jacks, or I just have expectation bias (95% most likely for me and the rest of you in IMHO), or the balanced input to the LC is superior or the balanced output was superiror. Not something I think any rational person would claim to be able to pin down in most cases.


----------



## Stillhart

greggo said:


> I don't think we will ever know with any reasonable certainty... I suppose one could argue that by hearing a DAC that offered both balanced and SE output on a significant number of amps (both balanced and SE inputs and outputs) you could determine if the outputs were of equal performance and then try it into the LC both ways to see if there is any difference.
> 
> I will be trying my NAD D1050 both ways when my LC arrives in Sep/Oct this year (hopefully), but I won't really know if any difference I may hear is the result of the NAD outputs, the LC inputs, or some unique interaction between the two that may very well be more or less with different DAC. In other words, preference for one or the other will prove nothing in an isolated case. I may prefer balanced, and it could be that the NAD simply performs better out through the balanced jacks, or I just have expectation bias (95% most likely for me and the rest of you in IMHO), or the balanced input to the LC is superior or the balanced output was superiror. Not something I think any rational person would claim to be able to pin down in most cases.


 
  
 While I certainly won't discount expectation bias outright (it's a big factor in our hobby), I'll say that it's less of a factor than you may imagine when testing with the LC.  The instant feedback from just pushing a button to swap inputs makes it VERY easy to tell if there are any differences in your DAC.  
  
 I've tried three different DAC's now that have both balanced and SE outputs.  Plugging both into the LC at the same time and swapping inputs when a song is playing makes it super easy to tell if there's any difference.  On one of the three there was an obvious difference and on two of them there was absolutely no difference.  Interestingly, as the button isn't labeled, it's easy to forget which input you're listening to (I was often forced to unplug one RCA to confirm which input I was using), so it truly can become a blind test.
  
 Now the thing about that test is that it really isn't going to tell you anything about the relative merits of balanced to SE.  You really need to test the same DAC optimized to work SE vs one optimized to work balanced.  Since that simply doesn't exist, we have no scientific way of knowing.  I have tested the DAC-19 vs the Cantata with the Liquid Gold (which has the same phase splitter as the Carbon).  Those both use the same PCM1704 chip and one is SE and one is Balanced.  Sonic differences (if any) could come from a number of factors seeing as how these are completely different brands and price tiers.  However, as @Hansotek can vouch, the differences we extremely subtle.   Take that for what it's worth (very little).
  
 But I'll reiterate my opinion on the subject:  a great SE DAC can sound better than an okay balanced DAC.  Getting something just because it's balanced doesn't make it inherently better.  As an easy example, the Liquid Carbon is a balanced amp and the Liquid Crimson is an SE amp.  Anyone who's heard the two will tell you that the Liquid Crimson is clearly better.  The Emotiva Stealth DC-1 is a balanced DAC and it sounds fine.  The DAC-19 is a SE DAC and it sounds fine.  I haven't heard the two back to back to compare directly, but I hypothesize that the DAC-19 will sound at least as good despite its crippling single-endedness (/s).


----------



## sahmen

Okay, here is a slightly different question.  I have been using the LC + Emotiva DC-1 combo with my Sennheiser HD700 and HD800 and they all seem to make quite a good match.  I have not heard any of the famous "treble peaks" associated with these cans, with the LC in charge, even though the extension at both ends on the Frequency scale is great on both cans.  The only issue I am having now is that, as good as these particular combos seem to sound, I am not quite sure how close to optimal performance I am getting because I do not have many other rigs to compare my current one with--And no, I have not had the opportunity to attend any "meets" or canjams in order to experiment with other options.
  
 For now though, I have a specific question :  I am wondering how much improvement I can expect (if any) from the HD800 and HD700s, were I to replace the the LC in this chain with Sennheiser's own HDVD800 or HDVA 600.  Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the performance of the LC with Sennheiser's own amps in powering either the HD800s or the HD700s?
  
 By the way, I am quite attached to my LC and not in anyway thinking of abandoning it as it does well with most of the cans I have.  I am just exploring options for optimal synergies.
  
 Any help here would be very appreciated.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> I have tested the DAC-19 vs the Cantata with the Liquid Gold (which has the same phase splitter as the Carbon).  Those both use the same PCM1704 chip and one is SE and one is Balanced.  Sonic differences (if any) could come from a number of factors seeing as how these are completely different brands and price tiers.  However, as @Hansotek can vouch, the differences we extremely subtle.   Take that for what it's worth (very little).


 
  
 Yeah, they were pretty subtle. Especially when you consider the Cantata costs 7X more than the DAC-19.


----------



## sheldaze

sahmen said:


> Okay, here is a slightly different question.  I have been using the LC + Emotiva DC-1 combo with my Sennheiser HD700 and HD800 and they all seem to make quite a good match.  I have not heard any of the famous "treble peaks" associated with these cans, with the LC in charge, even though the extension at both ends on the Frequency scale is great on both cans.  The only issue I am having now is that, as good as these particular combos seem to sound, I am not quite sure how close to optimal performance I am getting because I do not have many other rigs to compare my current one with--And no, I have not had the opportunity to attend any "meets" or canjams in order to experiment with other options.
> 
> For now though, I have a specific question :  I am wondering how much improvement I can expect (if any) from the HD800 and HD700s, were I to replace the the LC in this chain with Sennheiser's own HDVD800 or HDVA 600.  Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the performance of the LC with Sennheiser's own amps in powering either the HD800s or the HD700s?
> 
> ...


 
 I have heard LC, HD800, and HDVD800. While the Sennheiser amplifier is fine, my _personal_ preference is the signature of the LC. I also think, due to its lower output impedance, the LC would fare better with a more diverse set of headphones.


----------



## Greggo

stillhart said:


> While I certainly won't discount expectation bias outright (it's a big factor in our hobby), I'll say that it's less of a factor than you may imagine when testing with the LC.  The instant feedback from just pushing a button to swap inputs makes it VERY easy to tell if there are any differences in your DAC.
> 
> I've tried three different DAC's now that have both balanced and SE outputs.  Plugging both into the LC at the same time and swapping inputs when a song is playing makes it super easy to tell if there's any difference.  On one of the three there was an obvious difference and on two of them there was absolutely no difference.  Interestingly, as the button isn't labeled, it's easy to forget which input you're listening to (I was often forced to unplug one RCA to confirm which input I was using), so it truly can become a blind test.
> 
> ...


 
 Good points and I like your thinking here. That is in fact something I am looking forward to, first I hope to confirm that the D 1050 is about the same balanced or SE through the LC either way. Then when I am determined that I must upgrade because I am missing something I will buy a new DAC and then compare with the NAD, if I can't really hear the difference, the new DAC goes back   Though there are better amps out there, I am hopeful that the LC is close enough to TOTL performance that I will be able to do exactly as you stated, and that is at least hear the difference between DACs, especially if I eventually add the HD800S with balanced cables to my home studio shortly after I take possession of the LC.


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> Okay, here is a slightly different question.  I have been using the LC + Emotiva DC-1 combo with my Sennheiser HD700 and HD800 and they all seem to make quite a good match.  I have not heard any of the famous "treble peaks" associated with these cans, with the LC in charge, even though the extension at both ends on the Frequency scale is great on both cans.  The only issue I am having now is that, as good as these particular combos seem to sound, I am not quite sure how close to optimal performance I am getting because I do not have many other rigs to compare my current one with--And no, I have not had the opportunity to attend any "meets" or canjams in order to experiment with other options.
> 
> For now though, I have a specific question :  I am wondering how much improvement I can expect (if any) from the HD800 and HD700s, were I to replace the the LC in this chain with Sennheiser's own HDVD800 or HDVA 600.  Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the performance of the LC with Sennheiser's own amps in powering either the HD800s or the HD700s?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't find either of those two amps you mentioned to be an upgrade at all. I just don't think the HDVD800 is a good amp. It has peaky garbage treble and zero soul, IMHO. The Liquid Gold is a noticeable upgrade. As is the Liquid Glass, DNA Stratus, and Questyle CMA800R. I also understand that the Apex Teton is pretty amazing, but I haven't heard it personally.


----------



## sahmen

sheldaze said:


> I have heard LC, HD800, and HDVD800. While the Sennheiser amplifier is fine, my _personal_ preference is the signature of the LC. I also think, due to its lower output impedance, the LC would fare better with a more diverse set of headphones.


 
 Thanks sheldaze. From what I have gathered from my readings, I am inclined to agree with you regarding the LC's relative versatility in handling a wider range of headphones.


----------



## sahmen

hansotek said:


> I don't find either of those two amps you mentioned to be an upgrade at all. I just don't think the HDVD800 is a good amp. It has peaky garbage treble and zero soul, IMHO. The Liquid Gold is a noticeable upgrade. As is the Liquid Glass, DNA Stratus, and Questyle CMA800R. I also understand that the Apex Teton is pretty amazing, but I haven't heard it personally.


 
 Good to know, and thanks for your input.


----------



## Solarium

Can anyone compare the LC with the iFi Micro iCAN SE?


----------



## bearFNF

sahmen said:


> Good to know, and thanks for your input.



I agree that the HDVD800 was not to my taste. The LC IMO does a much better job driving the hd800. 

The LAu is indeed a excellent upgrade path.


----------



## sahmen

bearfnf said:


> I agree that the HDVD800 was not to my taste. The LC IMO does a much better job driving the hd800.
> 
> The LAu is indeed a excellent upgrade path.


 
 I have got to admit it : you guys just saved me from some disappointment, and from shelling out some cash I had not even properly budgeted for, because I was about to jump on what appeared to be a smoking deal. I am glad I posted this inquiry, and am grateful for the input.


----------



## purk

bearfnf said:


> I agree that the HDVD800 was not to my taste. The LC IMO does a much better job driving the hd800.
> 
> The LAu is indeed a excellent upgrade path.


 
 I do like the HDVD800's amp better than the LC.  The LC is a tad bright so it isn't as good of a match compared to the HDVD800.  The DAC on the HDVD800 can be better obviously.  The HDVD800 has a much better build quality as well as the volume control.  I'm assuming you can *sahmen *can get the HDVD800 for around $1000 here.  
  
 Also don't ever overlook whatever ECP audio makes.  The Torpedo III is also superbly match with the HD800 and will trump both the LC & HDVD800.


----------



## defbear

So much stuff. Is it kosher if I don't quote? I actually own much of the gear discussed. With the Emotiva DAC 1 and the Liquid Carbon. The Emotiva has SE AND balanced outputs. My original reason for the purchase. The Liquid Carbon sounds identical no matter if is is fed Balanced or Single Ended from the Emotiva. Listening SE vs Balanced is a different story. There is a difference. Don't bother with the HDVD800 or 600. You're going to listen to the LC far more as I do. The HDVD800 is a nice safe bet if you have the original hd800 headphones and you are not a nutso hobbiest and just want to get it over with. 
I enjoy the SE output on the Liquid Carbon with my Fostex TH900's so much that I decided there was no reason to get the th900's a balanced cable. I have a Master 11 that many would consider a TOTL balanced R2R Dac/amp combo. Pretty much my end game. BUT! Single Ended outputs vs Balanced outputs. Man oops Person! You can't admit a preference without being labeled a Troll (don't do that). Strong feelings and Emotions. Sorry, some of the threads, Too Funny. I had to get to the bottom of it. I was sure I hadn't had the true SE experience. I wanted to make my bones eh I mean form a Valid Opinion. So I put my money where my mouth is. I took my SE only BiFrost Uber and packed it off to Schiit for the Multibit upgrade. So I have Schiits best SE (only) DAC . I ordered from Urban Audio the microZOTL2. SE only OTL tube amp with the LPS upgrade. Hardcore! I'll get to the point. I done been schooled. This single ended combination gives up nothing to a balanced amp in any way shape or form. The Bimby is utterly amazing with detail, richness and a wide, tall soundstage. The MZL has clarity, great bass, no harshness with hd800's. The MZL loves every headphone I have plugged into it. The microZOTL sounds better than the LC 'even in balanced mode'. Much better actually. Yeah a great SE setup can better even a nice balanced setup. I plugged Bimby into the LC. With my Liquid Carbon I'm still sticking with the Emotiva. Great combo.


----------



## sahmen

purk said:


> I do like the HDVD800's amp better than the LC.  The LC is a tad bright so it isn't as good of a match compared to the HDVD800.  The DAC on the HDVD800 can be better obviously.  The HDVD800 has a much better build quality as well as the volume control.  I'm assuming you can *sahmen *can get the HDVD800 for around $1000 here.
> 
> Also don't ever overlook whatever ECP audio makes.  The Torpedo III is also superbly match with the HD800 and will trump both the LC & HDVD800.


 
 Yes, I can get the HDVD800 for around $1000, which is admittedly a good price, when compared with the original MSRP, but if the upgrade over the LC is not going to be too significant over the LC, as you say in the other thread, then won't it it be better to save the $1000 and use it toward another unit which will provide a greater upgrade? There are definitely differences of opinion regarding the comparison, but I simply ascribe that to different preferences which are standard fare on Headfi.  If these differences are telling me anything, one way or the other, it is that there isn't enough of an upgrade between the two units to warrant that extra $1000.  If that I am mistaken about that, I am sure someone will soon let me know...  lol.
  
 Thanks again to everyone for their input


----------



## sahmen

defbear said:


> So much stuff. Is it kosher if I don't quote? I actually own much of the gear discussed. With the Emotiva DAC 1 and the Liquid Carbon. The Emotiva has SE AND balanced outputs. My original reason for the purchase. The Liquid Carbon sounds identical no matter if is is fed Balanced or Single Ended from the Emotiva. Listening SE vs Balanced is a different story. There is a difference. Don't bother with the HDVD800 or 600. You're going to listen to the LC far more as I do. The HDVD800 is a nice safe bet if you have the original hd800 headphones and you are not a nutso hobbiest and just want to get it over with.
> I enjoy the SE output on the Liquid Carbon with my Fostex TH900's so much that I decided there was no reason to get the th900's a balanced cable. I have a Master 11 that many would consider a TOTL balanced R2R Dac/amp combo. Pretty much my end game. BUT! Single Ended outputs vs Balanced outputs. Man oops Person! You can't admit a preference without being labeled a Troll (don't do that). Strong feelings and Emotions. Sorry, some of the threads, Too Funny. I had to get to the bottom of it. I was sure I hadn't had the true SE experience. I wanted to make my bones eh I mean form a Valid Opinion. So I put my money where my mouth is. I took my SE only BiFrost Uber and packed it off to Schiit for the Multibit upgrade. So I have Schiits best SE (only) DAC . I ordered from Urban Audio the microZOTL2. SE only OTL tube amp with the LPS upgrade. Hardcore! I'll get to the point. I done been schooled. This single ended combination gives up nothing to a balanced amp in any way shape or form. The Bimby is utterly amazing with detail, richness and a wide, tall soundstage. The MZL has clarity, great bass, no harshness with hd800's. The MZL loves every headphone I have plugged into it. The microZOTL sounds better than the LC 'even in balanced mode'. Much better actually. Yeah a great SE setup can better even a nice balanced setup. I plugged Bimby into the LC. With my Liquid Carbon I'm still sticking with the Emotiva. Great combo.


 
  
 I have always had the microzotl2 on my radar since I started dreaming about owning a Hifiman He-1000, because I read on these threads a while ago that the two make for a great pairing... Your post has brought that idea sharply back into focus now.  I wonder why no-one else has recommended it as a good partner for the HD 800 on this thread before you.   Thanks for your input.


----------



## kggibbs

Has anyone been able to contact Cavalli audio recently via their website and got a response? 
Whats the usual response time from them?


----------



## Stillhart

sahmen said:


> I have always had the microzotl2 on my radar since I started dreaming about owning a Hifiman He-1000, because I read on these threads a while ago that the two make for a great pairing... Your post has brought that idea sharply back into focus now.  I wonder why no-one else has recommended it as a good partner for the HD 800 on this thread before you.   Thanks for your input.



Probably because this is the Liquid Carbon thread, not the microZOTL2 thread or the HD800 thread. 

I've got nothing against the zotl, I think it's a pretty great amp, actually. But there are probably better places to look for information on amps that aren't the LC. Lol


----------



## doctorjazz

stillhart said:


> sahmen said:
> 
> 
> > I have always had the microzotl2 on my radar since I started dreaming about owning a Hifiman He-1000, because I read on these threads a while ago that the two make for a great pairing... Your post has brought that idea sharply back into focus now.  I wonder why no-one else has recommended it as a good partner for the HD 800 on this thread before you.   Thanks for your input.
> ...




True dat, I've been avoiding praising the ZOTL here and recommending it because I've already mentioned it multiple times, and because I figure people will think I work for them (which I don't...no connection at all, just love the amp). But, as I also take pains to repeat, the LC is a fine amp in its own right, use it a lot in a bedroom system, and it is no a knock on it to prefer an amp that is almost twice as expensive...


----------



## Hansotek

sahmen said:


> I have always had the microzotl2 on my radar since I started dreaming about owning a Hifiman He-1000, because I read on these threads a while ago that the two make for a great pairing... Your post has brought that idea sharply back into focus now.  I wonder why no-one else has recommended it as a good partner for the HD 800 on this thread before you.   Thanks for your input.


 
  
 The microZOTL2.0 is fantastic, especially with the HE1000 & ZMF Omni. Haven't listened to it with the HD800, but all signs point to amazeballs. Definitely worth checking into it!


----------



## sahmen

How's the Microzotl2 when it comes to tube-rolling?  Having always relied on Solid state amps and shied away from the hit-or-miss process of experimenting with tubes, I have to admit that I'm more of a set-it-and-forget-it type of guy, and that is one of the concerns that bothers me when confronted with the prospect of owning a tube amp, such as a Microzotl2.  Are the stock tubes it comes with versatile enough to match readily a wide range of headphones ( in my case, the HD800, the Hd700, the Hifiman He 500, the Beyerdynamic T1, the Fostex THX00, among others) or will I have to tinker with a dizzying number of diverse tubes trying to find a perfect match for each of my cans?
  
 Oops! Having said that, I immediately realize that I'm probably asking the question on the wrong thread..., but this is because there have been enough talk and recommendations regarding this amp on this thread to warrant the question, at least temporarily.  I promise not to do anything else to further the derailing of this thread henceforth...
  
 At any rate, to make this relevant, I have to say that the LC has been great with all the cans I have thrown at it so far, and I am sold on the desirability of upgrading to a higher model in the Cavalli hierarchy, such as the liquid gold... I only wish I had a budget to match my wishes in that regard... Oh well... Can't have it all, and it really sucks.


----------



## Stillhart

sahmen said:


> How's the Microzotl2 when it comes to tube-rolling?  Having always relied on Solid state amps and shied away from the hit-or-miss process of experimenting with tubes, I have to admit that I'm more of a set-it-and-forget-it type of guy, and that is one of the concerns that bothers me when confronted with the prospect of owning a tube amp, such as a Microzotl2.  Do the stock tubes it comes with versatile enough to match readiily a wide range of headphones ( in my case, the HD800, the Hd700, the Hifiman He 500, the Beyerdynamic T1, the Fostex THX00, among others) or will I have to tinker with a dizzying number of diverse tubes trying to find a perfect match for each of my cans?
> 
> Oops! Having said that, I immediately realize that I'm probably asking the question on the wrong thread..., but this is because there have been enough talk and recommendations regarding this amp on this thread to warrant the question, at least temporarily.  I promise not to do anything else to further the derailing of this thread henceforth...
> 
> At any rate, to make this relevant, I have to say that the LC has been great with all the cans I have thrown at it so far, and I am sold on the desirability of upgrading to a higher model in the Cavalli hierarchy, such as the liquig gold... I only wish I had a budget to match my wishes in that regard... Oh well... Can't have it all, and it really sucks.


 
  
 You have 9 headphones in your signature and one more listed above that isn't in the sig.  I suspect you could find a way to afford a Liquid Gold if you really wanted to!  lol


----------



## sahmen

stillhart said:


> You have 9 headphones in your signature and one more listed above that isn't in the sig.  I suspect you could find a way to afford a Liquid Gold if you really wanted to!  lol


 
 Difficult to disagree when you put it that way, especially if I can summon the courage to let go of some of the cans I already have, or better yet, to let go of my inexplicable emotional attachment to those I do not regularly use.  Come to think of it, 9 headphones sound sort of perverse, especially to someone like me who likes to think of himself as being still on the lookout for an endgame rig. Besides, I only have two ears, and constraints imposed by my line of work do not allow me the luxury of having a lot of free disposable time to do a lot of listening... Sometimes, I have to wonder how I got here... I can tell you that I never planned to ever own 9 cans without even having an endgame model in sight, --at least, I never remember ever planning something like this in the past--but here I am today, in that very embarrassing spot...  This is indeed a strange hobby, and yet I am loving every tormented minute of it, and wouldn't have it any other way... It is also nuts, and I know that. If only I could help myself... lol!


----------



## musiclvr

sahmen said:


> Difficult to disagree when you put it that way, especially if I can summon the courage to let go of some of the cans I already have, or better yet, to let go of my inexplicable emotional attachment to those I do not regularly use.  Come to think of it, 9 headphones sound sort of perverse, especially to someone like me who likes to think of himself as being still on the lookout for an endgame rig. Besides, I only have two ears, and constraints imposed by my line of work do not allow me the luxury of having a lot of free disposable time to do a lot of listening... Sometimes, I have to wonder how I got here... I can tell you that I never planned to ever own 9 cans without even having an endgame model in sight, --at least, I never remember ever planning something like this in the past--but here I am today, in that very embarrassing spot...  This is indeed a strange hobby, and yet I am loving every tormented minute of it, and wouldn't have it any other way... It is also nuts, and I know that. If only I could help myself... lol!



Arghhhhh you made check my profile and count inventory of my headphone/iem collection.....the total? 24!!!! I wonder how I got here in the lat 3-4 years?? I will say that I will be trying to rotate my headphones more when I recieve my LC 2 (since selling my 1st gen LC).


----------



## doctorjazz

Funny how that happens...think they breed when we're not looking...


----------



## Hansotek

doctorjazz said:


> Funny how that happens...think they breed when we're not looking...


 
  
 I put my HD800 and HE-6 in a room, lit a candle, and tossed on some Barry White. In nine months, I'll either have an Abyss or the most sibilant, amp-picky headphone of all time. 
  
Fingers crossed.


----------



## doctorjazz

hansotek said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how that happens...think they breed when we're not looking...
> ...


----------



## bearFNF

hansotek said:


> I put my HD800 and HE-6 in a room, lit a candle, and tossed on some Barry White. In nine months, I'll either have an Abyss or the most sibilant, amp-picky headphone of all time.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


Or they will burn your house down.


----------



## tvnosaint

I wish the gestation period was only nine months. That's about right for amps.


----------



## defbear

hansotek said:


> I put my HD800 and HE-6 in a room, lit a candle, and tossed on some Barry White. In nine months, I'll either have an Abyss or the most sibilant, amp-picky headphone of all time.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


Funniest, hippest comment iv'e read on this board. I'm humbled. (And my rep button is broken)


----------



## swspiers

defbear said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I put my HD800 and HE-6 in a room, lit a candle, and tossed on some Barry White. In nine months, I'll either have an Abyss or the most sibilant, amp-picky headphone of all time.
> ...


I absolutely agree!!!


----------



## Hansotek

defbear said:


> Funniest, hippest comment iv'e read on this board. I'm humbled. (And my rep button is broken)







swspiers said:


> I absolutely agree!!!




Aw! Thanks guys. You made my day.


----------



## Jozurr

So people who own higher end amps, which amp will be a good upgrade to the LC? Im reading up on the MZ2 and the pS upgrade and tube rolling kind of puts me off. Any other recommendations than the MZ2 under $1500? Maybe stretch it to 2K USD. I'll be using the Omni and the entire LFF line, so I want something that works with most headphones. Im looking for a sizeable upgrade and not a small one.


----------



## Hansotek

jozurr said:


> So people who own higher end amps, which amp will be a good upgrade to the LC? Im reading up on the MZ2 and the pS upgrade and tube rolling kind of puts me off. Any other recommendations than the MZ2 under $1500? Maybe stretch it to 2K USD. I'll be using the Omni and the entire LFF line, so I want something that works with most headphones. Im looking for a sizeable upgrade and not a small one.




I think it sounds pretty good with the stock tubes. Other stuff to look into would be the Questyle CMA800R, Wells Audio Milo, Arist Heron 5, iFi iCan Pro and the DecWare Taboo.


----------



## Mist3rLao

Does anyone know where I could find the output power rms specifications of the LC?


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> I think it sounds pretty good with the stock tubes. Other stuff to look into would be the Questyle CMA800R, Wells Audio Milo, Arist Heron 5, iFi iCan Pro and the DecWare Taboo.


 
  
 I agree.  I heard the MicroZOTL2 with the upgraded power supply and stock tubes and it sounded really good.  The other amps listed here should be solid as well.  Zach (of ZMF) uses a DecWare Taboo III as well as a ZOTL, a Liquid Gold and an Audio-GD Master-11.


----------



## Hansotek

mist3rlao said:


> Does anyone know where I could find the output power rms specifications of the LC?




http://www.cavalliaudio.com/products/liquid-carbon

It's spec'ed at 1.5W into 50ohms RMS, but in reality it can do about twice that.


----------



## doctorjazz

The ZOTL does sound better with upgraded tubes and upgraded LPS, but I used it for the longest time stock, and loved it (I don't believe it was really intended for tube rolling, but you know audiophiles when they get their hands on something...). The Cavalli higher end models should be good upgrades, bit more expensive, though. I was part of the Liquid Crimson Lightning Tour, it was indeed MUCH better sounding than the Carbon.


----------



## mscott58

And the LAu is even better. Saw a used one go for just over $2K recently, although it went really fast! Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> And the LAu is even better. Saw a used one go for just over $2K recently, although it went really fast! Cheers




$2395, right?

Do you have any more impressions of the LAu on loan?


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> $2395, right?
> 
> Do you have any more impressions of the LAu on loan?




Other than what I've said before and that it kicks-a**. Amazing TOTL headphone amp that rocks my world with both my LCD-3's and borrowed Ether-C's. Highly recommended. Better clarity, slam, and deep black background. Cheers


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> Other than what I've said before and that it kicks-a**. Amazing TOTL headphone amp that rocks my world with both my LCD-3's and borrowed Ether-C's. Highly recommended. Better clarity, slam, and deep black background. Cheers




Just wanted to read that again!


----------



## Koolpep

jozurr said:


> So people who own higher end amps, which amp will be a good upgrade to the LC? Im reading up on the MZ2 and the pS upgrade and tube rolling kind of puts me off. Any other recommendations than the MZ2 under $1500? Maybe stretch it to 2K USD. I'll be using the Omni and the entire LFF line, so I want something that works with most headphones. Im looking for a sizeable upgrade and not a small one.




Maybe the ICan Pro?


----------



## tvnosaint

jozurr said:


> So people who own higher end amps, which amp will be a good upgrade to the LC? Im reading up on the MZ2 and the pS upgrade and tube rolling kind of puts me off. Any other recommendations than the MZ2 under $1500? Maybe stretch it to 2K USD. I'll be using the Omni and the entire LFF line, so I want something that works with most headphones. Im looking for a sizeable upgrade and not a small one.



I'm glad you asked. I'm in the same boat. Instead of narrowing down I just keep adding candidates. At one time there were 3 now I'm looking at 7.


----------



## Stillhart

tvnosaint said:


> I'm glad you asked. I'm in the same boat. Instead of narrowing down I just keep adding candidates. At one time there were 3 now I'm looking at 7.


 
  
 Honestly, if you like the LC and are looking for more of the same, the bigger Cavalli amps are the way to go.  The Cavalli house sound is a thing and it's part of how Cavalli made its name.  Other amps will sound good in their own way but nothing else will sound quite like a Cavalli.  At least that's been my experience with other high end amps I've tried (Woo, iCan, Simaudio, Questyle, etc.)


----------



## tvnosaint

I'm thinking I want a vast soundstage and pretty tone. V281 sounds promising. But it's at the top of my price range even used. Still reading/ researching then,asking questions to unsuspecting headfiers like yourself. Bryston, Cary , mjolnir2, Taurus mk2, decware audio gd and ec black widow are other contenders. I love the LC , would like a little more bass slam , resolution and staging. For the money I've never heard a better amp. But I don't get to hear a lot of amps.


----------



## Stillhart

tvnosaint said:


> I'm thinking I want a vast soundstage and pretty tone. V281 sounds promising. But it's at the top of my price range even used. Still reading/ researching then,asking questions to unsuspecting headfiers like yourself. Bryston, Cary , mjolnir2, Taurus mk2, decware audio gd and ec black widow are other contenders. I love the LC , would like a little more bass slam , resolution and staging. For the money I've never heard a better amp. But I don't get to hear a lot of amps.


 
  
 There's a meet in in Atlanta this weekend.  It's not exactly close to NOLA but it might be doable if you're motivated.  Getitng out there and hearing the amps for yourself is always the best way to choose.  Especially in the price range you're talking about...


----------



## tvnosaint

True. Working weekends makes it a challenge. I should take a weekend off for a meet in Houston or Atl . Either is 5 hours away. Not so bad. I would love to hear the gear and put faces on profiles. I keep trying to do meets here.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

tvnosaint said:


> I'm thinking I want a vast soundstage and pretty tone. V281 sounds promising. But it's at the top of my price range even used. Still reading/ researching then,asking questions to unsuspecting headfiers like yourself. Bryston, Cary , mjolnir2, Taurus mk2, decware audio gd and ec black widow are other contenders. I love the LC , would like a little more bass slam , resolution and staging. For the money I've never heard a better amp. But I don't get to hear a lot of amps.


 
  
 Not to throw a hard curve ball, but the DAC you choose can accomplish similar results.  I ordered a Metrum Musette to pair with my LC, and the things I hear most about Metrum DACs is soundstage and musical...


----------



## AxelCloris

tvnosaint said:


> True. Working weekends makes it a challenge. I should take a weekend off for a meet in Houston or Atl . Either is 5 hours away. Not so bad. I would love to hear the gear and put faces on profiles. I keep trying to do meets here.


 
  
 I feel the pain of working weekends. Thankfully I have tomorrow off so I can attend Canlanta but then it's back to Cincinnati shortly thereafter. Everyone has their preferences but 5 hours is still a reasonable drive for a big meet if you ask me. I try and hit the Chicago and Detroit meets whenever I can. Heading to Houston or Atlanta is a drive but worth it if you can get to a good sized meet. I think Canlanta is up to 20+ exhibitors this weekend and that's including Cavalli. Maybe you're feeling sick and need to take a personal day perhaps?


----------



## tvnosaint

Axel I'd love to but can't be that guy. 
Jeff, I love my dac. Nm24 , it's what reveals the weakness of my amps in the chain. Zmf omni-nm24-(Lyr,h10 and LC .) have great tubes too. The h10 is relegated to the pulse in the BR . Lyr and LC share duty in main rig and the geek out v2 is my portable. So I'm on a slow search.nothing immediate. The LC and the Lyr with valvo CCas sound good . Better than either should for the money. Just....knowing it could be better and have one amazing set up. I thinks it's just the life we've chosen. So I'll be bugging people for a while. Especially locally.


----------



## defbear

buttuglyjeff said:


> Not to throw a hard curve ball, but the DAC you choose can accomplish similar results.  I ordered a Metrum Musette to pair with my LC, and the things I hear most about Metrum DACs is soundstage and musical...


Please review the Musette when you can. I am interested in this DAC also. Thank you.


----------



## Greggo

+1
  
 The Musette is high on my list of potential DAC partners for my forthcoming LC.


----------



## Jozurr

hansotek said:


> I think it sounds pretty good with the stock tubes. Other stuff to look into would be the Questyle CMA800R, Wells Audio Milo, Arist Heron 5, iFi iCan Pro and the DecWare Taboo.


 
  
  


doctorjazz said:


> The ZOTL does sound better with upgraded tubes and upgraded LPS, but I used it for the longest time stock, and loved it (I don't believe it was really intended for tube rolling, but you know audiophiles when they get their hands on something...). The Cavalli higher end models should be good upgrades, bit more expensive, though. I was part of the Liquid Crimson Lightning Tour, it was indeed MUCH better sounding than the Carbon.


 
  
 I'd love to have a LAu for $2395 as mentioned before. All the other amps mentioned here, seem to not sound as "musical" as the LC except for maybe the Crimson and the MZ2. So instead of going up the Cavalli chain, is there any other amps that are have a similar sound to the LC is the question. I really enjoy how the LC sucks me into the music, which is what doesn't happen with amps I usually try.


----------



## jarnopp

Anyone have any further thoughts on power cords (please don't respond if you are not a believer...not sure I am even but don't wNt to derail the thread). I just swapped in the PS Audio AC-3 for a Monoprice cord and, while not blind A/B testing, I think I'm hearing more dynamics, detail and impact with HE-6s. Only trying because MusicDirect had this cord on sale. Any thoughts on this or other not outrageously priced power cords with the LC?

Edit-PS: I think this cable weighs more than the LC.


----------



## Hansotek

jarnopp said:


> Anyone have any further thoughts on power cords (please don't respond if you are not a believer...not sure I am even but don't wNt to derail the thread). I just swapped in the PS Audio AC-3 for a Monoprice cord and, while not blind A/B testing, I think I'm hearing more dynamics, detail and impact with HE-6s. Only trying because MusicDirect had this cord on sale. Any thoughts on this or other not outrageously priced power cords with the LC?
> 
> Edit-PS: I think this cable weighs more than the LC.



I noticed similar improvements with the Pangea AC-9 II, which sounds great, but is tough to recommend for the LC because it is so heavy and stiff - it will lift the Carbon right off the table! I bought a Yarbo flat copper cable which is working nicely as well. Both are 7 gauge. I haven't tried the PS Audio cable you mentioned. Any improvements are going to be small. My working theory it that the Monoprice cables don't seem to be all that great at noise rejection, which sort of "grays out" the noise floor and robs the LC of some dynamic depth and slightly obscures a little bit of detail. If you find a cable that can fix that issue and improve impact, I think you have a real winner.


----------



## jarnopp

hansotek said:


> I noticed similar improvements with the Pangea AC-9 II, which sounds great, but is tough to recommend for the LC because it is so heavy and stiff - it will lift the Carbon right off the table! I bought a Yarbo flat copper cable which is working nicely as well. Both are 7 gauge. I haven't tried the PS Audio cable you mentioned. Any improvements are going to be small. My working theory it that the Monoprice cables don't seem to be all that great at noise rejection, which sort of "grays out" the noise floor and robs the LC of some dynamic depth and slightly obscures a little bit of detail. If you find a cable that can fix that issue and improve impact, I think you have a real winner.




Thanks for confirming...I will try to avoid the rabbit hole on this, but also appreciate the improvements different components can make. Mojo is my dac source, and at some point I feel I will get to Dave.


----------



## wym2

jarnopp said:


> Anyone have any further thoughts on power cords (please don't respond if you are not a believer...not sure I am even but don't wNt to derail the thread). I just swapped in the PS Audio AC-3 for a Monoprice cord and, while not blind A/B testing, I think I'm hearing more dynamics, detail and impact with HE-6s. Only trying because MusicDirect had this cord on sale. Any thoughts on this or other not outrageously priced power cords with the LC?
> 
> Edit-PS: I think this cable weighs more than the LC.


 
  
 I use the Morrow Audio MAP 3 Ref PC and am very happy with the difference from a Mono cable. It has changed my perception of the LC quite like you describe the AC-3. It is not a garden hose and is reasonably priced. Morrow has a 60 day return policy and sometimes has discount offers.
  
  
 MBP → SDragon → Mojo → AQ Sky → LC → HD 800S (WW Platinum)


----------



## defbear

jarnopp said:


> Thanks for confirming...I will try to avoid the rabbit hole on this, but also appreciate the improvements different components can make. Mojo is my dac source, and at some point I feel I will get to Dave.


Isn't Dave like $60,000? I am using the two Pangea cables mentioned. Big and Fun. My favorite cables have turned out to be the Swedish Supra cables. I got mine on Ebay from a seller in Seattle. I'm powering my LC with one right now!


----------



## x RELIC x

defbear said:


> *Isn't Dave like $60,000? *I am using the two Pangea cables mentioned. Big and Fun. My favorite cables have turned out to be the Swedish Supra cables. I got mine on Ebay from a seller in Seattle. I'm powering my LC with one right now!




More like £8000 / $13000.


----------



## defbear

x relic x said:


> More like £8000 / $13000.


I must have read the price in Rupee's or sumthin'


----------



## Peti

I wish it was 60000 JPY...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

defbear said:


> Please review the Musette when you can. I am interested in this DAC also. Thank you.


 
  
  


greggo said:


> +1
> 
> The Musette is high on my list of potential DAC partners for my forthcoming LC.


 
  
 I'll have it in about 3 weeks.  I don't have piles of DAC experience, but I'll share what I hear.  I do know the folks at Linear Audio love the Musette with the MicroZOTL2, so I expect great things with the LC...


----------



## sheldaze

buttuglyjeff said:


> I'll have it in about 3 weeks.  I don't have piles of DAC experience, but I'll share what I hear.  I do know the folks at Linear Audio love the Musette with the MicroZOTL2, so I expect great things with the LC...


 
 I'm just finishing a tour with the Musette - I'm local, so I was able to work out a deal, to borrow and bring with me to the Atlanta meet. But I'm not that good at flowery prose. I just have to say that the Musette is musical as all get out!
  
 In a slightly more technical term, if the music you are listening to was recorded acoustically, the Musette really brings out the best texture and depth, palpability of the original acoustically recorded sound. I've been comparing to Chord Mojo and Chord Hugo, which handle transients well. But the R2R and NOS topology of the Musette just sounds more real, when the things I'm listening to were originally _real_ - not pumped through a studio production process.
  
 Think Chesky "style" recordings - simple, with not a lot of additional studio work. Most of the work goes into the recording part, the setup of the microphones and the original acoustics of the room in which the musicians do their work. And the sound comes out cleanly through the Musette.
  
 Other than that, there's a really high level of detail, a wide soundstage, and just a touch of warmth. I do not feel that I am missing much detail compared again to the Chord Hugo and I'll add a second high detail DAC, the Ayre Codex, which I also brought to the Atlanta meet for people to compare side-by-side against the Musette. One person commented that he _could_ listen to the Codex, but _would_ want to listen to the Musette all day.


----------



## Drew3627

I purchase a second hand carbon. crazy question what is the pushbutton on the far lower right used for?


----------



## mscott58

drew3627 said:


> I purchase a second hand carbon. crazy question what is the pushbutton on the far lower right used for?


 
 That button selects between the SE (RCA and 3.5mm) and balanced (XLR) inputs on the back. Pressed in and with a red LED is for SE, out and with a white LED is for balanced. Middle button and light is for selecting the high or low gain on the HP outputs. Cheers


----------



## warrenpchi

Liquid Carbon Upgrade Package Interest Check Hi guys!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 A while back, when we announced the second and final run of Liquid Carbons, some of you mentioned that you would be interested in paying the price difference between the first and second runs in order to have your Liquid Carbon 1.0 units upgraded to our newer power stage... not to mention getting in on the bonuses (AudioQuest NRG-X3 cable, Amarra Hi-Fi, and Cavalli Audio tee).
  
 If we offered a special upgrade package that includes:

Liquid Carbon power stage upgrade service
AudioQuest NRG-X3 cable;
Amarra Hi-Fi software; and
Limited-edition Cavalli Audio tee
  
 ...and it was priced at $200, would any of y'all be up for that?
  
 Please let me know by posting here as we'd like to see if there is any interest for that, and whether there's enough interest in making it happen production-wise.
  
 Thanks!
  
 P.S. - Apologies to the mods for cross-posting, but the sheer number of Liquid Carbon threads made it difficult to avoid that.


----------



## gortman

Warren,
  
 I recently purchased WNBC's LC (how does warranty transfer work btw?) and would definitely be interested in the upgraded power supply.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## mscott58

Warren - Would only be interested in the PS upgrade and the T-shirt. What changes were made to the PS? Just the isolation bit? Thanks!


----------



## mscott58

Just answered my own question 

This final run of Carbons will feature a 2nd generation power supply, which has been designed specifically to reduce noise from the single-ended output. Of course, we highly suggest that you run your Liquid Carbons with balanced output to get the most out of it, but we’re doing what we can to improve the SE output anyway… for those times when you just don’t have the appropriate balanced cable on-hand. See, that’s a good surprise right?


----------



## Koolpep

Yep I would be in.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting. But are the positive results mostly for the single ended mode?


----------



## Hansotek

jamato8 said:


> Interesting. But are the positive results mostly for the single ended mode?



Yes. The power supply upgrade only affects the performance of the SE output.


----------



## korotnam

> Originally Posted by *warrenpchi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Please let me know by posting here as we'd like to see if there is any interest for that, and whether there's enough interest in making it happen production-wise.


 
  
 You'd have an immediate purchase from me!


----------



## purk

jamato8 said:


> Interesting. But are the positive results mostly for the single ended mode?


 
  
 I believe you will get a better treble performance as well so that's benefit both SE & Balance.  I actually have a prototype of the upgraded unit and it has a more refined presentation with deeper soundstage and smoother treble as well.  I have to do a direct comparison with the stock unit however...but for instance my HD800 is no longer a tad too bright for me out of the Carbon.


----------



## ejong7

warrenpchi said:


> Liquid Carbon Upgrade Package Interest Check Hi guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Would be in but considering that shipping has to be involved it'll more than likely drive that up much more for internationals. Maybe not as worth it for guys like me who probably 100% of the time use the balance out.


----------



## kggibbs

kggibbs said:


> Has anyone been able to contact Cavalli audio recently via their website and got a response?
> Whats the usual response time from them?


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## atsq17

Would be nice to get more advantages for balanced out too. But I'm in.


----------



## Stillhart

kggibbs said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 Try PM'ing @warrenpchi or @runeight .


----------



## warrenpchi

kggibbs said:


> kggibbs said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone been able to contact Cavalli audio recently via their website and got a response?
> ...


 
  
 Hi @kggibbs, I just did an exhaustive search of our emails, and I'm sorry that I couldn't seem to find anything from you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just so you know, we have recently switched over to Zendesk as a customer service platform, to improve communications.  On the day that it was set-up, I know that there some difficulty in getting our emails and contact forms to route properly... and your email could have wound up being put into limbo then.  If that's the case, I'm sorry for the mishap.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That said, please feel free to PM me (or email me directly at warren@cavalliaudio.com) and I'm happy to help however I can.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

kggibbs said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 Maybe PM @warrenpchi ?


----------



## swspiers

warrenpchi said:


> Liquid Carbon Upgrade Package Interest Check
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> ...




I am absolutely interested in the upgrade!


----------



## geocleojohn

yes would be interested


----------



## wym2

Do we keep our same warranty?


----------



## woodcans

I want the upgrade for sure.


----------



## bettyn

woodcans said:


> I want the upgrade for sure.


 
 Same here.


----------



## Priaptor

how about the power stage upgrade only??


----------



## hemtmaker

I would be interested in the upgrade too. Please make it happen!


----------



## Wazzock

I'm up for an upgrade


----------



## atsq17

BTW How many of you guys actually went for the "gateway drug" upgrade purchases? I'm regretting not doing it. While my budget wasn't up for it then, I'd seriously consider a Liquid Gold now.


----------



## sheldaze

atsq17 said:


> BTW How many of you guys actually went for the "gateway drug" upgrade purchases? I'm regretting not doing it. While my budget wasn't up for it then, I'd seriously consider a Liquid Gold now.


 
 Send a PM to @jmsaxon69. It may not be too late.


----------



## Stillhart

atsq17 said:


> BTW How many of you guys actually went for the "gateway drug" upgrade purchases? I'm regretting not doing it. While my budget wasn't up for it then, I'd seriously consider a Liquid Gold now.


 
  
  


sheldaze said:


> Send a PM to @jmsaxon69. It may not be too late.


 
  
 Jim and Jason (@TSAVJason) should both still have them for sale.  You probably won't get the upgrade pricing but they're still available.


----------



## atsq17

The whole point is that I want it for the good price. Thanks for the responses though. I do appreciate the quick help.


----------



## sahmen

Okay, it seems most of the people responding want the upgrade, so when will the ballot be over? When is the upgrade program going into effect? This ballot thing can go on indefinitely... Am I the only one getting impatient with it? I want my upgrade already... So end the voting and take my money now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 By the way, I just acquired a Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC, which arrived last week, and pairing it with the LC produces such great magic that I have a hard time believing that any other pairing can possibly top this one, even though I know better than that, or should.  By the way, I am rocking the pair with my HD 800, and while they have brought it to its detail retrieving best, the Hd 800 is also sounding very lush, meaty, euphonic, and digging deep into regions of sub-bass where i never imagined it could ever go, especially not from reading about the characteristics that are typically linked with the HD 800 by many headfi-ers, who are more likely to call it "hyper-analytical," "peaky," and sometimes, even "sterile."   Anyway, what I'm hearing on this rig couldn't be further from "sterile!"   Suffice it to say that I  have had the  HD800 on my head for almost 12 straight hours now, listening to my collection again, without any sleep, and without being able to take the damn thing off my head (except when I want to raid my kitchen, or fridge,  or go to the bathroom). That is how damn addicting the music is now... The legendary ear-piercing treble peaks are nowhere to be found... And fatigue?  What fatigue?  Everything is sounding as smooth as butter, not to mention "airy," spacious, and natural...
  
 There are only two cons that I am seeing here:
  
 1. The more I listen to the LC, the more curious I become about its bigger and pricier siblings in the Cavalli line-up, and I fear for my wallet, even though I am finding it difficult to imagine in practical terms how anything can top  what I am hearing now...
  
 2.  I am in danger of becoming a prisoner of my listening station...I have Sunday chores to do, errands to run, and sleep to catch up on...   I need help! But don't call 911 just yet!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

^^^
  
 I'm having the same issue.  I just received my Musette Friday, and I'm drawn to my headphones more and more.  The Musette is small, just not Liquid Carbon small.  And I got to say Cavalli and Metrum should be an automatic consideration of amp to DAC.
  
 If Warren announces some sort of "send your LC in for an upgrade" program.  Its going to be hard to break this pairing up....


----------



## Stillhart

I really enjoyed the Musette when I heard it with the ZOTL and Omni.  I've been bugging @zach915m to send me a review unit (he's an authorized Metrum dealer now!) because I really want to try it on my Crimson!
  
 That said, I may be selling my Crimson in the very near future.  I need the money to fund an upgrade purchase and I'll be falling back on the trusty LC for a little while.  Consider this an interest check to see if anyone is interested in picking up a Liquid Crimson at the RMAF discount price of $1800 (plus PP+shipping).  Shoot me a PM if so, no need to clog up this thread.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Yes @zach915m (ZMF Headphones) is an authorized dealer, and he's the one I got mine from.  Can't recommend sending him a PM enough.  He just hasn't updated his web site yet to reflect his Metrum offerings yet...


----------



## Stillhart

buttuglyjeff said:


> Yes @zach915m (ZMF Headphones) is an authorized dealer, and he's the one I got mine from.  Can't recommend sending him a PM enough.  He just hasn't updated his web site yet to reflect his Metrum offerings yet...


 
  
 Yeah he just moved to a new house and he's been really busy getting his operation back up and running.  He's around though and always happy to help people out.  That personal touch is what makes him a really great guy to buy from IMO.


----------



## zerogorgor

warrenpchi said:


> Liquid Carbon Upgrade Package Interest Check
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> ...


I am interested in the upgrade as well


----------



## RichardA1

I am interested in the upgrade


----------



## tretneo

Is there any chance to pick up a new, 2nd run LC at this point or has that ship sailed?


----------



## Stillhart

tretneo said:


> Is there any chance to pick up a new, 2nd run LC at this point or has that ship sailed?


 
  
 Hit up one of the two distributors that will be selling them once they're built:  @TSAVJason on the west coast or Jim Saxton on the east coast (forget his head-fi handle).  You won't get all the bonus stuff, but you can get a new second-run LC.


----------



## tretneo

stillhart said:


> Hit up one of the two distributors that will be selling them once they're built:  @TSAVJason
> on the west coast or Jim Saxton on the east coast (forget his head-fi handle).  You won't get all the bonus stuff, but you can get a new second-run LC.




Nice, thanks will do. What "bonus stuff" will be missed btw? T-shirt?


----------



## Stillhart

tretneo said:


> Nice, thanks will do. What "bonus stuff" will be missed btw? T-shirt?


 
  
 Shirt, feet, power cord, Amarra software.


----------



## Hansotek

tretneo said:


> Nice, thanks will do. What "bonus stuff" will be missed btw? T-shirt?



The bonuses were the t-shirt, the Audioquest NRG-X3 power cable ($99) and the Amarra Hifi product liscense ($35).


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

stillhart said:


> Yeah he just moved to a new house and he's been really busy getting his operation back up and running.  He's around though and always happy to help people out.  That personal touch is what makes him a really great guy to buy from IMO.


 
  
 The order Zach placed, for my Musette, also included an order for a Pavane.  Now that Head-fier is in for a serious treat...


----------



## tretneo

hansotek said:


> The bonuses were the t-shirt, the Audioquest NRG-X3 power cable ($99) and the Amarra Hifi product liscense ($35).




Ah ok, out of those 3 things the power cable would have been nice. Thanks!


----------



## zaintachik

tretneo said:


> Ah ok, out of those 3 things the power cable would have been nice. Thanks!




I actually don't mind the t shirt too


----------



## Rocyareborn

I'm looking to buy a LC please pm me if you plan to sell yours. I've missed the ones that were up recently. Thank you =)


----------



## mikemercer

Got mine goin' again for the first time in awhile tonight.
 INSANE how dynamic and musical this damn amp is...
  
 Beyond ANY of our expectations


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Owner of lucky #7 checking in:
  

  
 I must say this DAC pairing with the Liquid Carbon has been giving me goosebumps for a week now.  The Musette is labeled on the front "NOS Mini DAC", but it looks like a giant compared to the tiny amp.  This is my only setup, but I could totally see this as an office or bedroom rig for some of the bigger spenders here.
  
 Great combo for anyone considering.  Its true the Liquid Carbon is totally worth overspending a bit for its source...


----------



## sahmen

buttuglyjeff said:


> Owner of lucky #7 checking in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1


----------



## BucketInABucket

I use mine with a Theta Basic IIIa. Magical pairing!


----------



## Peti

buttuglyjeff said:


> Owner of lucky #7 checking in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, that's the Carbon 2nd batch? Does it look any different than the first batch? Can you take a pic of the feet?


----------



## Stillhart

peti said:


> Oh, that's the Carbon 2nd batch? Does it look any different than the first batch? Can you take a pic of the feet?


 
  
 That is definitely not the 2nd batch, which hasn't been built yet.


----------



## Peti

stillhart said:


> That is definitely not the 2nd batch, which hasn't been built yet.


 

 Oh, I see! Any idea when the 2nd batch start to ship from Austin?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

peti said:


> Oh, that's the Carbon 2nd batch? Does it look any different than the first batch? Can you take a pic of the feet?


 
  
  Yeah, I refer to my Liquid Carbon as "Lucky #7" because of its serial number (0000007 or something like that).  Its a first run LC, as there are no second runs in the wild yet...
  


peti said:


> Oh, I see! Any idea when the 2nd batch start to ship from Austin?


 
  
 There is still quite a bit of wait left for the second batch to ship.  The ordering stopped in May I believe?  And somewhere I thought I read 12 to 14 weeks from that point?  @warrenpchi would be the man to ask for an estimate, and remember it would be an estimate.  Things always can change...


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Anyone pair their LC amp with Zmf's Omni headphones?If so-what are your thoughts?Thank you!


----------



## doctorjazz

I have both in the house (Omni a loaner for a review), great pairing imo! Listening to hi rez Dylan, "Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again", great sound. It's not my primary amp (or headphone), but they do indeed sound fine together.


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Cool!Tx so much for your thoughts!!


----------



## doctorjazz

Listening to jazz, same set up, Maria Schneider's Orchestra's CD, The Thompson Fields, rich, tuneful, involving, don't think you'll go wrong. Have to spend a good bit more to scale up, I'd say.



girlfrombrasil said:


> Cool!Tx so much for your thoughts!!


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Hoping someone won't quite like their second gen LC and put it up for sale.Fingers crossed!!


----------



## Stillhart

girlfrombrasil said:


> Anyone pair their LC amp with Zmf's Omni headphones?If so-what are your thoughts?Thank you!


 
  
 I spent a lot of time with the Omni and the LC (like months) and it's a great pairing.  I loaned my LC to Zach (who makes the Omni) and he agreed that it was a good pairing.  He ended up buying a Liquid Gold though instead of a Liquid Carbon.  lol
  
 So yeah, I'd definitely recommend the pairing.


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Tx so much for your thoughts!I'm looking at several amp options and this one intrigued me the most because of all the input options!Obviously the "Gold" would be an endgame choice but not quite there yet!!


----------



## doctorjazz

Zach has an upgraded balanced cable, which brings the Omni performance up a notch, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I really like the LC/Omni combo, though, now that the price of the LC has gone up, for a little more you can get a MicroZOTL 2, which, to my ears, is even better with the Omni than the LC. Haven't heard the Liquid Gold, but, for considerably more money, the Liquid Crimson is an, errr, very liquid sounding amp.


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Cool!Also heard great things about the Microzotl.There are just too many choices.Yikes!!!Also researched the Crimson but not quite at my end game option yet!!Tx!


----------



## mikemercer

LOVE my Teak E-MUs w/ my LC!!!!


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Nice!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

A while back @warrenpchi (before joining the light side) had an Omni and a prototype LC and did some listening experiments for me.  Needless to say he approved the pairing highly.  Comparing it favorably to a pre-fazor LCD-3.  That's quite a praise if you ask me...
  
 edit - here it is http://www.head-fi.org/t/769682/zmf-omni-upcoming-semi-open-flagship/150#post_11733007


----------



## doctorjazz

I like the Omni better than the HE-560, and the LC drivers it well.


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Thanks!!


----------



## mikemercer

zachawry said:


> It's not our job to sell you on anything, but if you told us your current setup maybe someone could give you meaningful feedback on whether or not it would be a real upgrade.


 
_THIS was PRECIOUS _


----------



## mikemercer

doctorjazz said:


> Zach has an upgraded balanced cable, which brings the Omni performance up a notch, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I really like the LC/Omni combo, though, now that the price of the LC has gone up, for a little more you can get a MicroZOTL 2, which, to my ears, is even better with the Omni than the LC. Haven't heard the Liquid Gold, but, for considerably more money, the Liquid Crimson is an, errr, very liquid sounding amp.


 
_OFF-TOPIC!_
_Utmost apologies in-advance_
  
 As a reviewer that, YES, bought my Beloved Cavalli LAu (sure, I got accommodation - it still HURT)
 I feel obligated to say:
  
 Though system synergy is ALWAYS a huge factor that too many people overlook in picking gear
 - If you can afford an LAu, or, can save and it take months:
  
 I had the Crimson for awhile too - and, IMHO, while its got the Cavalli magic:
 it's not Liquid Gold-Reference Level when the LAu set-up optimally:
 Not merely musically (Both GREAT - and thats subjective) - but w/ the LAu - you get that full differential SS magic going - so its a different BEAST


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Shame the LAu wont be produced anymore, after this last batch.  It was something I was aspiring to have.  Hopefully there will be a successor...


----------



## Youth

buttuglyjeff said:


> Shame the LAu wont be produced anymore, after this last batch.  It was something I was aspiring to have.  Hopefully there will be a successor...


 
  
 Same, except it was a bit too expensive.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm sure there will be an successor/upgrade to the Gold...but will it cost even more? Stay tuned....

(TBH, I have no basis in fact or inside information that the advice is true, so I really have no reason to be sure, but I am, so there!)


----------



## sahmen

Shameless plug:  I love my carbon, but if anyone is considering selling the Liquid crimson or liquid gold, or trading either one down in exchange for an excellent condition Liquid Carbon + some cash, kindly PM me, and let us see if we can arrange some deal.
  
 I am dying to see what kind of magic my Metrum Acoustics Hex (DAC) can work up when paired with a Crimson or a Liquid Gold.  It is already excellent with the Carbon, but it has made me curious and got me wondering how far down the rabbit hole of Cavalli goodness or up the highway to sonic nirvana it can take me if the steps are painted in Cavalli Crimson or gold...  In other words, the "carbon gateway drug" thing has worked on me alright... Too bad I did not have enough mullah to jump on one of the discounted upgrades when they were being offered.
  
 Okay, let's return to our regularly scheduled discussion of carbon impressions.


----------



## mikemercer

doctorjazz said:


> I'm sure there will be an successor/upgrade to the Gold...but will it cost even more? Stay tuned....
> 
> (TBH, I have no basis in fact or inside information that the advice is true, so I really have no reason to be sure, but I am, so there!)


 
 SORRY TO BE OFF-TOPIC - BUT WHAT YOU'RE WONDERING ABOUT THE LAu  - it inspired me to write this lil' story about it:
  
 Unfortunately I don't think there will be a successor to the LAu.
 Lets hope the guys can pull it off!!!!
  
 I LOVE my Cavalli LAu - it's still my FAVE reference-level headphone amp - next to my Cherished E.A.R HP4

 - and Tim DeParavicini of E.A.R fame heard the Liquid Gold and HE LOVED IT!
 Warren and I had to, sorta', screen for him! LAO. Older audiophile sycophants drive him CRAZY.
 And he had a specific reason for checkin' it out that time::::

 He told me that our friend Dan Moonwalk (also Tims US importer) told him that I said somethin' like - "I found an amplifier that I MIGHT enjoy more than my E.A.R HP4".
  
 Well:
 He listened for a fair amount of time, and spun all sorts of different stuff, got up, and walked off. Not a word.
 I run to catch up to him, thinkin' he's going to swing at me or somethin' - that I was WAY OFF.
  
 Now - Tim is one of my F____in heroes - everyone from Pink Floyd to The Beatles and Lana Del Ray have recorded their albums using Tim's equipment!
  
 Well - he stopped, just stopped.
 I kept on walking, and then, noticed he was gone. I turned around and he was just standing there. I got back to him, and said somethin' like "Tim, what's up, you're killin' me man".
 He kinda half-smiled and said:
  
 "Michael, I'm gonna have to tell Dan (Meinwald - our mutual friend who's also Tims US Importer) that he's right, and that's just terrible"
 I didn't know what that meant.
  
 He told me that I had "great ears", and he thought Harry Pearson taught me well - and that he may, after more time with the amplifier - also prefer it to his own!!!!
 Now THAT'S Dope


----------



## doctorjazz

Great story, thanks. (Of course, now I feel awful for not going for the Gold... )


----------



## reddog

mikemercer said:


> SORRY TO BE OFF-TOPIC - BUT WHAT YOU'RE WONDERING ABOUT THE LAu  - it inspired me to write this lil' story about it:
> 
> Unfortunately I don't think there will be a successor to the LAu.
> Lets hope the guys can pull it off!!!!
> ...



That is a great story Michael, and it a story that make me happy that I ordered a Liquid LAU. I was shocked how musical and ever so revealing the Liquid Lau is..


----------



## mikemercer

reddog said:


> That is a great story Michael, and it a story that make me happy that I ordered a Liquid LAU. I was shocked how musical and ever so revealing the Liquid Lau is..


 
 I was pumped to see you got one!!
 That amp still BLOWS MY MIND more often than any other.

 PLUS: I'm also really enjoying my Pioneer SE-A1000s (w/ @warrenpchi Mod) on the LC!!


----------



## mikemercer

doctorjazz said:


> Great story, thanks. (Of course, now I feel awful for not going for the Gold...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 OH man
 I'm sorry bout that! I'd call em you never know


----------



## jarnopp

jarnopp said:


> I haven't had that issue either. I usually listen 3-4 clicks below line level from Mojo into LC, which provides vol pot range of about 10-2, depending on material, driving HE-6s. But I believe max output without clipping would be achieved with a few clicks above line out into LC, closer to 4v.




For anyone who may be using the HE-6 with their LC, I am finding that the LC does a perfectly fine job of diving the HE-6, *IF*
1) you use 3x gain
2) balanced output
3) have a high quality input source that delivers close to 4v, which will dive the LC to its max without clipping. 

For #3 I've been using the Mojo, but usually lowered 3-4 clicks below line level (so taking down from about 3v to 2v). But have recently been comparing the LC to speaker amps and find that with the Mojo and raising the output 3 clicks above line level (closer to 4v), the LC does a great job with bass control, tightness, speed and overall sound quality. Certainly at this point it's about what you can afford and like from an amp, rather than a power limitation, from what I'm hearing.


----------



## Audio Addict

jarnopp said:


> For anyone who may be using the HE-6 with their LC, I am finding that the LC does a perfectly fine job of diving the HE-6, *IF*
> 1) you use 3x gain
> 2) balanced output
> 3) have a high quality input source that delivers close to 4v, which will dive the LC to its max without clipping.
> ...




Pretty much what I found with the Pulse Infinity.


----------



## sahmen

jarnopp said:


> For anyone who may be using the HE-6 with their LC, I am finding that the LC does a perfectly fine job of diving the HE-6, *IF*
> 1) you use 3x gain
> 2) balanced output
> 3) have a high quality input source that delivers close to 4v, which will dive the LC to its max without clipping.
> ...


 
 Upon reading this note, I have started listening to my He-6 for the first time on my Metrum Hex + LC combo (w/ MacMini/Amarra).  I am listening to ALAC rips off Keith Jarrett's _At the Blue Notes_ 6-Disc set, and I am realizing that I have to crank up the volume on the LC to get to my normal listening levels, but that is to be expected, since it is the He-6 (the extent of the "cranking up" depends on the source, of course).  Besides I hear no clipping even at full volume so it is all good.
  
 Thing I want to mention is the stunning retrieval of detail, the great extension at both ends of the sonic spectrum, the refinement of the overall presentation, the fantastic imaging, separation, and placement of instruments, the completely "black" and noiseless background, and the complete lack of any sense of harshness in the high frequencies, I could go on and on...
  
 Oh, and there is something about this Metrum Hex + LC combo, something that seems to glue your a** to the seat of you listening station, and makes you want to continue listening and listening and listening, and forgetting everything else...  I do not know what ingredient in the sound causes this immobilization, nor do I know the proper name for it, but these two know how to cause that "voodoo," but I guess one could call it "good voodoo," as long as you do not have other business to attend to.
  
 I have had both He-6 and the LC here for more than 7 months now, and it never occurred to me to try pairing them both, because I was thinking the LC won't have the juice--now I stand corrected, and am floored by the naiveness that inspired that thought...
  
 Now I know that my Liquid Carbon is not going anywhere, even if I eventually end up buying the Liquid Crimson or the Liquid Gold... Yes, I have both Crimson and Gold on my wish list, and hope to acquire one of the, especially the Gold.  But even if I do, you will still have to pry my Carbon away from my cold dead hands...  Yes, my respect for this little box from the good Dr Alex keeps growing in leaps and bounds everyday...  For the price, this is a superlatively exquisite piece of craftsmanship, a tour de force of refined sonic engineering...
  
 Okay, let me stop there before I get too carried away


----------



## atsq17

Was about to upgrade from Carbon to V281 (couldn't find a 230v Gold for an affordable price) but realized it's amazing chops with my CIEMs and as a transportable unit. 
  
 Running a transportable setup currently of Geek Out V2 Signature Edition -> Norne Therium interconnect (3.5mm TRRS balanced to 2 x 3 pin XLR balanced) -> Liquid Carbon -> Norne Therium balanced headphone cable -> JH 13 Pro Freq Phase. 
  
 When I tried it with HE-1000 (Norne silvergarde) it sounded amazing too. 
  
 I may still get another amp but I think the Carbon stays.


----------



## sahmen

.


----------



## genius753

My combo...audeze lcd-2f/cavalli liquid carbon/stonner accoustics EGD...I wait for my new silver poison toxic 4 pin xlr balanced cable for my audeze...my best maiting for the moment...


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

genius753 said:


> My combo...audeze lcd-2f/cavalli liquid carbon/stonner accoustics EGD...I wait for my new silver poison toxic 4 pin xlr balanced cable for my audeze...my best maiting for the moment...


 
  
 I love how they are similar in size.
  
 I was scared away when I learned the EGD was USB powered.  Is that working fine for you?  Or have you added a USB powered hub or Schiit Wyrd or the likes to the chain?


----------



## rigo

buttuglyjeff said:


> I love how they are similar in size.
> 
> I was scared away when I learned the EGD was USB powered.  Is that working fine for you?  Or have you added a USB powered hub or Schiit Wyrd or the likes to the chain?




I had this same combo. The Wyrd did not work for me. USB sounded really good. I wish I could have kept it as my bedside rig, but wasn't possible at the time.


----------



## bettyn

Does anyone have an LC paired with a Parasound zDAC v2.? Have found a good buy on that DAC and wonder how they might sound with HD800's or Nighthawks.


----------



## genius753

buttuglyjeff said:


> I love how they are similar in size.
> I was scared away when I learned the EGD was USB powered.  Is that working fine for you?  Or have you added a USB powered hub or Schiit Wyrd or the likes to the chain?




I'm honest man and i can say usb sounded really good...you can take any usb cable,I board not found any difference between several cable testing of different quality ... well anything that will deserve the purchase of an expensive high- end cable...


----------



## Girlfrombrasil

Anyone here use the Oppo Ha-2 with their liquid carbon?


----------



## BenHolmes

Hey, has anyone who's got the Liquid Carbon also ever tried / owned a Burson Soloist? What's the comparison if so?
  
 Interested in both amps, but burson soloist has preamp outs and I wanted to see if the LC blew it out of the water or not.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Koolpep

benholmes said:


> Hey, has anyone who's got the Liquid Carbon also ever tried / owned a Burson Soloist? What's the comparison if so?
> 
> Interested in both amps, but burson soloist has preamp outs and I wanted to see if the LC blew it out of the water or not.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 You live in Urumqi? Amazing - was there some 15 years ago. Interesting memories from there.
  
 I have the Burson Conductor  (Sabre version) 
 bottom right

  
 And also the Liquid Carbon - The Burson is very versatile and I love the plenty inputs and outputs, pre-amp etc. But purely the amp section - I would give the win to the LC. Can't tell you the specifics - but it "feels" nicer to me, more pleasant, more engaging, more my taste. Didn't do any critical listening trying to dissect what exactly the differences are.
  
 But on the other hand - the differences are not night and day with most headphones. Still use the Burson mostly hat home with my HD650 and the LC in the office.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## ejong7

benholmes said:


> Hey, has anyone who's got the Liquid Carbon also ever tried / owned a Burson Soloist? What's the comparison if so?
> 
> Interested in both amps, but burson soloist has preamp outs and I wanted to see if the LC blew it out of the water or not.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I heard there was a V2 of the Soloist released some time ago but I've only heard the V1 that was released way back.The LC is definitely more transparent and engaging if I recall the Burson sound correctly. However, I do remember the Burson being powerful enough to drive the HE-6. The Carbon probably can do it, but it'll be a push.


----------



## mscott58

Agree with what's been posted. It's been a while since I had the Burson Conductor (full version, V1) but I prefer the amp portion of the LC over the Conductor's amp. However, the Burson is also a combo amp/DAC, so with the LC you'd need a separate DAC. Cheers


----------



## BenHolmes

Thanks so much for your responses guys. i actually have an apogee duet which I'll use as the DAC feeding the LC, and the apogee will be my pre-amp for my studio monitors also. Definitely going to go with the LC! Thanks!


----------



## BenHolmes

koolpep said:


> You live in Urumqi? Amazing - was there some 15 years ago. Interesting memories from there.
> 
> I have the Burson Conductor  (Sabre version)
> bottom right
> ...




Yep I live in Urumqi. It's a crazy but amazing place!! About to move to LA in a few months, so preparing heavily for the change in lifestyle =) 

I'm sure the Burson amps are great, but I'm hearing such great things about the LC which are making it seem to stand out above other amps in similar price ranges and above. It also just looks so damn good too! People are loving it with their audeze x/xc's and that's what I've got, just can't turn it down.


----------



## jarnopp

benholmes said:


> Thanks so much for your responses guys. i actually have an apogee duet which I'll use as the DAC feeding the LC, and the apogee will be my pre-amp for my studio monitors also. Definitely going to go with the LC! Thanks!




I had the Apogee One for a while, then upgraded to Mojo and have not looked back. Mojo is an amazing DAC and would also be able to serve as a preamp for your monitors. FWIW, I also don't see any issue with Mojo -> LC -> HE-6. Fantastic sound.


----------



## BenHolmes

jarnopp said:


> I had the Apogee One for a while, then upgraded to Mojo and have not looked back. Mojo is an amazing DAC and would also be able to serve as a preamp for your monitors. FWIW, I also don't see any issue with Mojo -> LC -> HE-6. Fantastic sound.


 
 I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a CM. Forgive me i I'm wrong though, but mojo doesn't have any preamp outs? Just the two headphone jacks on the front? Or are you suggesting just going from headphone jack is ok?
  
 EDIT: In fact, would someone take a photo of how they use the DAC of the CMojo and into the LC? Is it just straight out of the headphone jacks? Wouldn't that be also using Mojo's amp section? Sorry, noob alert...


----------



## x RELIC x

benholmes said:


> I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a CM. Forgive me i I'm wrong though, but mojo doesn't have any preamp outs? Just the two headphone jacks on the front? Or are you suggesting just going from headphone jack is ok?
> 
> EDIT: In fact, would someone take a photo of how they use the DAC of the CMojo and into the LC? Is it just straight out of the headphone jacks? Wouldn't that be also using Mojo's amp section? Sorry, noob alert...




Because Rob Watts is using his WTA filter with the FPGA and his Pulse Array DAC the _noise from the DAC is so clean_ he only needs one discrete opamp stage (the crucial I/V conversion) and that's it. The Mojo simply doesn't have a separate headphone amp in the way that other devices do, and it's very simple for the sake of transparency. Think of it more like a variable line-out using digital volume control rather than a headphone amp. The measurements of the headphone out are certainly much better than most DACs line out as well (especially at this price).

To allay any fears of using the headphone out of the Mojo you'd be interested to know that the Hugo, Hugo TT, DAVE, all basically share the same path from their line-out as the headphone out in those devices. If you'd like to know more you can read the third post of the Mojo Thread which has a mountain of information, including the explanation about the output stage in the Mojo.

You can use a regular 3.5mm interconnect from the Mojo to the Liquid Carbon. That's what I did when I had mine (sold my Liquid Carbon):


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Because Rob Watts is using his WTA filter with the FPGA and his Pulse Array DAC the _noise from the DAC is so clean_ he only needs one discrete opamp stage (the crucial I/V conversion) and that's it. The Mojo simply doesn't have a separate headphone amp in the way that other devices do, and it's very simple for the sake of transparency. Think of it more like a variable line-out using digital volume control rather than a headphone amp. The measurements of the headphone out are certainly much better than most DACs line out as well (especially at this price).
> 
> To allay any fears of using the headphone out of the Mojo you'd be interested to know that the Hugo, Hugo TT, DAVE, all basically share the same path from their line-out as the headphone out in those devices. If you'd like to know more you can read the third post of the Mojo Thread which has a mountain of information, including the explanation about the output stage in the Mojo.
> 
> You can use a regular 3.5mm interconnect from the Mojo to the Liquid Carbon. That's what I did when I had mine (sold my Liquid Carbon):


 
 Agree - The Mojo is an incredible DAC! Punches way, way above it's price-point in terms of accuracy and musicality. However, I personally feel it's only fully realized when it is connected to an external amp like the LC (or if you like more of a tube sound I personally prefer the ALO CDM - and soon the ALO CV5!). For portable use I connect my K10's straight to the Mojo, but on my desktop I plug it into the LC. I've also plugged the Mojo straight into the Cavalli Liquid Gold - that's right, a $600 portable SE DAC into a $4K balanced amp. Sounds amazing. Hard to go wrong with the Mojo as a DAC and the LC as an amp, especially for their price-points. Cheers


----------



## BenHolmes

Many thanks guys! Great information about the Mojo. Can totally see it working with both the LC and monitor/speaker setup.
  
 Sorry to derail a little from LC... Can't wait to get mine!


----------



## Hansotek

mscott58 said:


> Agree - The Mojo is an incredible DAC! Punches way, way above it's price-point in terms of accuracy and musicality. However, I personally feel it's only fully realized when it is connected to an external amp like the LC (or if you like more of a tube sound I personally prefer the ALO CDM - and soon the ALO CV5!). For portable use I connect my K10's straight to the Mojo, but on my desktop I plug it into the LC. I've also plugged the Mojo straight into the Cavalli Liquid Gold - that's right, a $600 portable SE DAC into a $4K balanced amp. Sounds amazing. Hard to go wrong with the Mojo as a DAC and the LC as an amp, especially for their price-points. Cheers




I can back that up. The mojo sounds surprisingly great as a DAC with both the LAu and the LW.


----------



## BenHolmes

Thanks so much all. Apologies for another question - The balanced output the LC can 'generate' from a non-balanced source... Does it sound as good as a balanced source? My guess would be that a valanced source is better, but I'm guessing if I A/B tested, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.


----------



## mscott58

benholmes said:


> Thanks so much all. Apologies for another question - The balanced output the LC can 'generate' from a non-balanced source... Does it sound as good as a balanced source? My guess would be that a valanced source is better, but I'm guessing if I A/B tested, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.


 
 The phase splitter that Alex uses is very, very good. I'd say the quality of the balanced output from a SE source is so very close to the quality of the balanced input. I even took a DAC with both balanced and SE outputs and did an A/B with the LC and LAu and (if you use equally good cables of course) could not have told which was which if someone blindfolded me. If you have power issues or a lot of signal interference the balanced input might help with that, but as we've debated on this thread a ton I'd recommend going with a better quality SE DAC than focusing just on balanced DACs if you're going to be using the LC/LAu/LW/etc. Cheers


----------



## Vigrith

benholmes said:


> Thanks so much all. Apologies for another question - The balanced output the LC can 'generate' from a non-balanced source... Does it sound as good as a balanced source? My guess would be that a valanced source is better, but I'm guessing if I A/B tested, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.


 
  
 I don't own an LC, unfortunately after taking the import taxes into consideration I just couldn't afford it at the time of the second run - however, after extensive research into the matter of balanced vs SE all things considered, I would imagine you maybe not be able to tell the difference (or just barely) if you A/B test, especially with your LCD-XC given they are not really analytical sounding headphones, they are more on the enjoyable side I'd say. Opinions are mixed but I personally think I wouldn't be able to at least, hence I've not ventured into a 100% balanced setup yet.
  
 Plus if you take into consideration the Mojo sounds better to begin with than a lot of DACs (balanced or not) costing a fair bit more money according to plenty of people it becomes even harder to draw a fair comparison.


----------



## mscott58

vigrith said:


> I don't own an LC, unfortunately after taking the import taxes into consideration I just couldn't afford it at the time of the second run - however, after extensive research into the matter of balanced vs SE all things considered, I would imagine you maybe not be able to tell the difference (or just barely) if you A/B test, especially with your LCD-XC given they are not really analytical sounding headphones, they are more on the enjoyable side I'd say. Opinions are mixed but I personally think I wouldn't be able to at least, hence I've not ventured into a 100% balanced setup yet.
> 
> Plus if you take into consideration the Mojo sounds better to begin with than a lot of DACs (balanced or not) costing a fair bit more money according to plenty of people it becomes even harder to draw a fair comparison.


 
 Exactly. 
  
 Regarding the Mojo, having it SE into a Cavalli makes it a better overall listening experience then other DAC's I've used that cost 3-4x as much.


----------



## BenHolmes

Yes, I'm sure this has been discussed before... Thanks for wrapping it up so well for me.
  
 This should be a mojo/liquid carbon thread.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

Worry about finding a good sounding DAC to you.  Don't limit your options to one configuration only.  You'll miss out on some really great options...


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> Worry about finding a good sounding DAC to you.  Don't limit your options to one configuration only.  You'll miss out on some really great options...




Great point!


----------



## Stillhart

benholmes said:


> Yes, I'm sure this has been discussed before... Thanks for wrapping it up so well for me.
> 
> This should be a mojo/liquid carbon thread.


 
  
 No, it should be the DAC-19/Liquid Carbon thread!


----------



## jarnopp

stillhart said:


> No, it should be the DAC-19/Liquid Carbon thread!




There is a whole thread dedicated to finding a DAC for the LC, that is since closed. That might help. But, agree with everyone has said about Mojo/LC. Great synergy and balanced out is the way to go, regardless of balanced in or SE in with the phase splitter. I also find that one benefit of the Mojo is that you can tailor the sound a bit by lowering or increasing the voltage (volume) into the LC, to get more or less of the Cavalli sound. Great amp when you need the power!


----------



## Peti

jarnopp said:


> There is a whole thread dedicated to finding a DAC for the LC, that is since closed. That might help. But, agree with everyone has said about Mojo/LC. Great synergy and balanced out is the way to go, regardless of balanced in or SE in with the phase splitter. I also find that one benefit of the Mojo is that you can tailor the sound a bit by lowering or increasing the voltage (volume) into the LC, to get more or less of the Cavalli sound. Great amp when you need the power!


 

 I remember going through that thread and what I distilled was either the Mojo or DAC-19 are the winners. I've personally tried both and loved the super-detailed sound the Mojo provided, but it wasn't a good match for the HD800C regarding the highs (TO MY EARS) so I went with the DAC-19. I can only imagine how good a Mojo/LC/Ether Flow or LCD-X would be...


----------



## defbear

peti said:


> I remember going through that thread and what I distilled was either the Mojo or DAC-19 are the winners. I've personally tried both and loved the super-detailed sound the Mojo provided, but it wasn't a good match for the HD800C regarding the highs (TO MY EARS) so I went with the DAC-19. I can only imagine how good a Mojo/LC/Ether Flow or LCD-X would be...


 
 I am a bit of a pig as I own a lot. The Mojo sounds great as a DAC feeding the LC and is a great combination with my broken in Ether-C's. The plus is that you get a portable unit with the Mojo. But I own an Emotiva Stealth DAC 1. Love the Stealth part  The Emotiva Dac is a favorite of mine with the LC. And hands down I would keep my Emotiva over the Mojo.


----------



## Peti

Emotiva over the Mojo? Can you elaborate why? Especially, b/c I have nver heard the Stealth...


----------



## defbear

peti said:


> Emotiva over the Mojo? Can you elaborate why? Especially, b/c I have nver heard the Stealth...


 
 Sure, it sounds better as a dac than the mojo. It's fully balanced and the built in 'courtesy amp' sounds great. It's a great sounding 6 blade knife of a product that does everything really well. The only thing Mojo has over it is battery power. A LOT of LC owners use the Emotiva. But im not selling my mojo. its fun, i enjoy it


----------



## Peti

Interesting! thanks for the answer. there's so many amps and dacs I have yet to hear...


----------



## mikemercer

defbear said:


> Sure, it sounds better as a dac than the mojo. It's fully balanced and the built in 'courtesy amp' sounds great. It's a great sounding 6 blade knife of a product that does everything really well. The only thing Mojo has over it is battery power. A LOT of LC owners use the Emotiva. But im not selling my mojo. its fun, i enjoy it


 
 I dug using @Hansotek's Mojo as a DAC ahead of the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten prototype at _CanJam SoCal_ this year!!
  
 Dr. Cavalli (I LOVE THE MAN) but, he was rockin' an OG Cypher Labs Algo Solo as the DAC ahead of the Liquid Tungsten MAGIC
 - & while I fully appreciate how great that product WAS, and even is...
  
 I mean, I was at HRT when we beat em' w/ the iStreamer (the first Apple-Approved full DAC for iDevices - lmao - holy sh__ I'm old)
 - SO, remembering that the Algorhythm Solo was the HRT iStreamer's ONLY competition for a lil' while,
 and NOT being able to REMEMBER that far BACK 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Alex Cavalli remembered what he'd done before in situations like these:
 He trusted us.
 He let us get in there.
 And We were ON IT w/ the set-up!!
  
 He builds the magic 
- we spend all our time figuring out how to SQUEEZE the most music outta the things right?
  
That was the night before _CanJam SoCa_l this year (I used @Stillhart's Audio GD R-2R DAC the day of the demos for the Tungsten).
  
We slapped the Mojo in-the-mix, who's headphone amp I'm admittedly not a huge fan of - but the DAC? The DAC's synergy w/ my A&K AK380 & Liquid Tungsten were f____ magical!
  
 That was some _*FUN!!!!*_
  
 Why that tangent??
 I believe strongly that system synergy is EVERYTHING - which is why I don't typically do direct product conparisons. Even if I have ALL the same variables set-up, I believe strongly that all sorts of gear interacts differently. So, what we're hearing is the result of a whole system, and not just the headphones, or amp, or DAC? Some disagree with this outlook I know - but I've been in the music game for over 20-years: And if I've learned anything about the playback side - it's that I'm always down for the good ol' Trial-n-Error methodology.
  
 Because I'm blown-away somtimes at just how good certain things sound together that should be TOTAL DOGSH__ if I just looked at the price, the specs, and even the lab results...
  
 Trial-and-error - and, if you can't do that, get a consenses I say -
 or find someone who shares your musical tastes... just my 2 cents...
  
 Me?
 I've LOVE my Questyle Audio CAS192D DAC ahead of my Cavalli Audio LC (overkill, I realize) but I also dig using my lil' HRT microStreamer as a DAC w/ it on-the-go!!
  
  
  
 I've also heard the Emotiva w/ the LC - and that's a smooth & musical combination IMHO...

 I ended up settling on my MYTEK STEREO-192-DSD-DAC for awhile, and still use the microStreamer when I take the LC with me!!
 It's such an amazing little amp, not just for the money - it's simply freakin' amazing when burned-in and treated right!!!!
 Especially running fully-balanced - 
 WHOAH,,,,
  
 Happy Listening!!


----------



## maheeinfy

Any one know when the 2nd batch carbons are going to ship out?


----------



## Stillhart

maheeinfy said:


> Any one know when the 2nd batch carbons are going to ship out?


 
  
 We all got our already.  You didn't get yours?


----------



## fiascogarcia

stillhart said:


> We all got our already.  You didn't get yours?


 
 You're just being cruel!


----------



## Vigrith

stillhart said:


> We all got our already.  You didn't get yours?


 
  
 Yea mine sounds great out of the new AK70 with the Mojo as DAC.
  
 (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Audio Addict

maheeinfy said:


> Any one know when the 2nd batch carbons are going to ship out?




I was talking with The Source AV and they have almost sold their entire order of the Carbon.


----------



## Peridot

defbear said:


> I am a bit of a pig as I own a lot. The Mojo sounds great as a DAC feeding the LC and is a great combination with my broken in Ether-C's. The plus is that you get a portable unit with the Mojo. But I own an Emotiva Stealth DAC 1. Love the Stealth part  The Emotiva Dac is a favorite of mine with the LC. And hands down I would keep my Emotiva over the Mojo.


 
  
 I do want to get my hands on a Mojo at some point. I was thinking of perhaps selling my Emotiva to fund it and swapping the Mojo into my LC when I'm not using it for portable duties.
  
 You've kinda persuaded me that would be a wrong thing to do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The DC-1 is a great pairing with the LC and also looks real nice on my home head-gear rack.
  
 I'll just save up a bit longer for the Mojo.


----------



## maheeinfy

stillhart said:


> We all got our already.  You didn't get yours?



Thanks for your response


----------



## mikemercer

maheeinfy said:


> Any one know when the 2nd batch carbons are going to ship out?


 
 that's a decent question - I've got a buddy who loves mine  - and I wasn't sure on the date of delivery.


----------



## Peti

mikemercer said:


> that's a decent question - I've got a buddy who loves mine  - and I wasn't sure on the date of delivery.




If you are at the AV Source meeting , can you ask Warren? Last time I asked him, he said they'd start to ship at the end of August. I just can't wait to get mine.


----------



## mikemercer

peti said:


> If you are at the AV Source meeting , can you ask Warren? Last time I asked him, he said they'd start to ship at the end of August. I just can't wait to get mine.


 
 I had to miss it!!
  
 But I'm lookin' forward to the Flow!!
  
 I'll ask him tonight


----------



## mikemercer

stillhart said:


> We all got our already.  You didn't get yours?


 
 actually I LOVE mine.
  
 I dig having the better ALPS pot, and the enclosure is slightly smaller,
 so it fits on my _Sonic Satori_ _Personal Audio Lab_ desk PERFECTLY


----------



## Stillhart

peti said:


> If you are at the AV Source meeting , can you ask Warren? Last time I asked him, he said they'd start to ship at the end of August. I just can't wait to get mine.


 
  
 I asked him today and he said they're still on track for the end of Aug...


----------



## Peti

stillhart said:


> I asked him today and he said they're still on track for the end of Aug...


 

 Thanks for the info! It seems a few more weeks and I can enjoy mine...


----------



## mikemercer

stillhart said:


> I asked him today and he said they're still on track for the end of Aug...


 
 I heard the funniest thing...
 Seriously - this is BEYOND me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Someone told me they heard this at The Source yesterday:
  
 that there was "going to be an American flag silk-screened onto the new LC chassis",
 and that Cavalli was "waiting for the governments approval"
  
 I LMAO
  
 like that even makes sense??
  
 NuJacks...


----------



## mikemercer

I really dig the Mytek ahead of my LC.
  
 I'm gonna be givin' the Brooklyn a try. YEAH!!


----------



## Jozurr

Has anyone directly compared the DAC19 and the mojo? I have the DAC19 which I really like but all this mojo talk is making me want one


----------



## x RELIC x

jozurr said:


> Has anyone directly compared the DAC19 and the mojo? I have the DAC19 which I really like but all this mojo talk is making me want one




I have. You can see the comparison in my Mojo Review. 

The short story is, I prefer the Mojo. That said, since I've sold my DAC-19 I actually miss it because it has a very detailed and musical sound.


----------



## XSAMURAI

jozurr said:


> Has anyone directly compared the DAC19 and the mojo? I have the DAC19 which I really like but all this mojo talk is making me want one


 
 Hi zaven
  
 i have mojo and many other dac , mojo is a good device indeed but very digital sounding compare to other dac i tried , emphasizes on bass especially mid bass ,  i can say for sure idsd is much more natural and overall better sounding dac/amp to my ears at least ,and i never owned any audio gd product but if you want versatile portable dac/amp ,the only thing i can of think is idsd  ,  IMO ...


----------



## Stillhart

jozurr said:


> Has anyone directly compared the DAC19 and the mojo? I have the DAC19 which I really like but all this mojo talk is making me want one


 
  
 I've heard them both on the same setup on the same day, but didn't do any real A/B testing.  I like the Mojo, it's a great sounding device for the price.  If you're willing to spend more for a portable solution, I did compare it to the AK320 the other day and I prefer the AK, which is more resolving.  If that's outside your budget, the Mojo is hard to beat for the price.


----------



## x RELIC x

xsamurai said:


> Hi zaven
> 
> i have mojo and many other dac , mojo is a good device indeed but very digital sounding compare to other dac i tried , emphasizes on bass especially mid bass ,  *i can say for sure idsd is much more natural and overall better sounding* dac/amp to my ears at least ,and i never owned any audio gd product but if you want versatile portable dac/amp ,the only thing i can of think is idsd  ,  IMO ...




Funny, I found the iFi DACs to sound very fake and digital, similar to how the Oppo HA-1 sounded compared to the DAC-19. Different strokes I guess. :wink_face:

Best thing is obviously to audition if one can.


----------



## crossfire

makes me want to sell some of my equipment for a mojo with all this mojo talk


----------



## scanspeakman1

Maybe I missed it but is there any news on the PSU upgrade for the LC?
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## ejong7

scanspeakman1 said:


> Maybe I missed it but is there any news on the PSU upgrade for the LC?
> 
> Scanspeakman


 
 I believe you're talking about the upgrade for the 1st generation of LC right? Think the idea was scratch due to lackluster support.


----------



## scanspeakman1

ejong7 said:


> I believe you're talking about the upgrade for the 1st generation of LC right? Think the idea was scratch due to lackluster support.


 

 Thats what I meant. Hmmmm.... sorry to hear that.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## mscott58

ejong7 said:


> I believe you're talking about the upgrade for the 1st generation of LC right? Think the idea was scratch due to lackluster support.


 
 Would be surprised about the "lackluster" part as it seemed liked everyone here raised their hands for it?


----------



## felix3650

Hey guys,
  
 While waiting for the LC I thought on getting a balanced cable for my ZMF Omni. I really dig the Norne Draug v2.
 Reading other reviews it seems to enhance low end impact a bit, making it better presented and tighter, and with a deeper soundstage to boot.
 Will the Mojo -> LC -> Draug v2 -> Omni sound too warm? I'm asking cause the Mojo and the LC are warm sounding, add to that the "slightly warmer cable"...
 The Omni has some sweet sub-bass but I don't want it to overwhelm everything else
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And no silver cables are a bit too thin, I'll be traveling around often with my gear (the reason I got the LC).


----------



## Stillhart

felix3650 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> While waiting for the LC I thought on getting a balanced cable for my ZMF Omni. I really dig the Norne Draug v2.
> Reading other reviews it seems to enhance low end impact a bit, making it better presented and tighter, and with a deeper soundstage to boot.
> ...


 
  
 I really like the Omni with the LC and DAC-19.  The Mojo is not as warm as the DAC-19 so I think you'll be fine.


----------



## jarnopp

felix3650 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> While waiting for the LC I thought on getting a balanced cable for my ZMF Omni. I really dig the Norne Draug v2.
> Reading other reviews it seems to enhance low end impact a bit, making it better presented and tighter, and with a deeper soundstage to boot.
> ...




Can't speak for the Omni, but I find the Mojo plenty on it's own for the ZMF Vibros. I haven't really needed the LC with them and think the Mojo/Vibro combo works well.


----------



## felix3650

stillhart said:


> I really like the Omni with the LC and DAC-19.  The Mojo is not as warm as the DAC-19 so I think you'll be fine.


 
  
 Thanks Dan. I really don't like my setup to sound overly warm. Just 2-3 dB more is enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


jarnopp said:


> Can't speak for the Omni, but I find the Mojo plenty on it's own for the ZMF Vibros. I haven't really needed the LC with them and think the Mojo/Vibro combo works well.


 
  
 Yeah. I'm running the Omni out of the Mojo right now and it's enough in volume but the T50RP mod is power hungry to really shine. I drove them out of the SR-71B and the Omni did improve on most aspects. The LC adds that tube like sound (which I really dig) on top of the Mojo so I expecting a really musical setup


----------



## hifi808

ejong7 said:


> I believe you're talking about the upgrade for the 1st generation of LC right? Think the idea was scratch due to lackluster support.


 
  
 Don't recall reading this, do you have a link to where the upgrade idea was rejected?


----------



## hemtmaker

So disappointed!


----------



## ejong7

hifi808 said:


> Don't recall reading this, do you have a link to where the upgrade idea was rejected?


 

 It's not written anywhere I would think. I just based it on the lack of an official announcement for an upgrade path. There were only a couple who posted to support it compared to the 500 people who owns one, including myself. Who knows they might still do it. But I don't think they'll do it for now.
  
 If they were to have an upgrade path, they probably would announce it by now so that they can have the boards done along with the LC batch 2 project. As I recall from the other thread that batch 2 project is on course for end of this month so would be awfully late to order more, at least thats what I think. Then again, I'm not Cavalli, nor do I work for them, so anything I say shouldnt be the final definitive answer. For that, I ask for you contact @warrenpchi


----------



## ejong7

mscott58 said:


> Would be surprised about the "lackluster" part as it seemed liked everyone here raised their hands for it?


 

 I'm saying that based on the amount compared to the 500. I think there was sub 20 who came out and said yes to it? I said no only on the basis that it would prove super costly for myself to upgrade since I mostly use the balanced output anyways, and 2 way shipping + tax is quite a lot.
  
 But if it were not for the cost I definitely would say yes to upgrading. Again, only my opinion.


----------



## swspiers

This speculating and sharing opinions is simply not helping. If there is no "official" word, then there's no official word...


----------



## Koolpep

x relic x said:


> Funny, I found the iFi DACs to sound very fake and digital, similar to how the Oppo HA-1 sounded compared to the DAC-19. Different strokes I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Relic,
  
 the two more recent firmware upgrades to my ears changed the filters to a certain extend - more natural sounding now than before - not a night and day difference, far from it, rather a very subtle change (that I could also just hallucinate since auditory memory is a bitch) - but a welcome one. 
  
 cheers.


----------



## x RELIC x

koolpep said:


> Hi Relic,
> 
> the two more recent firmware upgrades to my ears changed the filters to a certain extend - more natural sounding now than before - not a night and day difference, far from it, rather a very subtle change (that I could also just hallucinate since auditory memory is a bitch) - but a welcome one.
> 
> cheers.




Thanks for reminding me. I'll have to update the FW on the iDAC2 to check out any difference.


----------



## LukeThyWalker

Does anyone have any cable recommendations for connecting my LC to a Mojo?


----------



## sahmen

swspiers said:


> This speculating and sharing opinions is simply not helping. If there is no "official" word, then there's no official word...


 
 I also think "no official word" is the best way to address this issue at the moment...  The following response I received from Warren upon raising this same question in private mail confirms this "no work yet" response :
  
  
 *************
"As far as the possible power stage upgrade I posted about, we have not yet decided to move forward with that. While most of the responses were favorable, the number of responses was relatively low. And making a very limited number of upgrade boards is rather costly.

On top of that, many Head-Fiers brought up some good points regarding shipping costs and customs fees (for overseas customers). That itself seems to be a dealbreaker for some.

Of course, we haven't ruled out moving forward with the power stage upgrade, but at this time, we haven't committed to it either.

-Warren
 Warren Chi
 CEO, Cavalli Audio
warren@cavalliaudio.com"

  

 *********************************************


----------



## ejong7

sahmen said:


> I also think "no official word" is the best way to address this issue at the moment...  The following response I received from Warren upon raising this same question in private mail confirms this "no work yet" response :
> 
> 
> *************
> ...


 

 Lol that sounds like half a conversation. I wonder what was the other half? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But yeah I talked to Warren about this some time ago so I didn't take it as an 'official' word. He asked me how it actually cost for me to bring my LC into UK so that I could give him a frame of reference for the cost.


----------



## shultzee

lukethywalker said:


> Does anyone have any cable recommendations for connecting my LC to a Mojo?


 

 I used Audioquest Evergreen 3.5 to RCA.   Worked well.


----------



## sahmen

ejong7 said:


> Lol that sounds like half a conversation. I wonder what was the other half?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The other half was for my eyes only, because it was responding to a question about the availability or non availability of certain  "non-Liquid Carbon" Cavalli Audio components, besides which their mention would be off-topic on this thread...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Suffice it to say, FWIW, that the referenced correspondence is from July 13th, 2016, and is therefore relatively recent...  I thought some might find that helpful...


----------



## ejong7

sahmen said:


> The other half was for my eyes only, because it was responding to a question about the availability or non availability of certain  "non-Liquid Carbon" Cavalli Audio components, besides which their mention would be off-topic on this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Asking for the Cavalli Liquid Unobtanium eh. Everyone probably asked about it once. LMAO


----------



## Hansotek

lukethywalker said:


> Does anyone have any cable recommendations for connecting my LC to a Mojo?




The AudioQuest Big Sur 3.5mm to RCA is a nice one. I use that to connect my Mojo to everything. Nice warmth, smooth highs and far better dynamics than the lower end AQ stuff I've tried. Big Sur is the lowest model in the line with AQ's highest grade copper - the same stuff that is in their $700-$800 cables. Build quality is excellent as well, very robust and durable.


----------



## sahmen

ejong7 said:


> Asking for the Cavalli Liquid Unobtanium eh. Everyone probably asked about it once. LMAO


----------



## LukeThyWalker

hansotek said:


> lukethywalker said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have any cable recommendations for connecting my LC to a Mojo?
> ...


 

 Is there any difference between a 3.5 to 3.5 versus 3.5 to RCA?


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> The AudioQuest Big Sur 3.5mm to RCA is a nice one. I use that to connect my Mojo to everything. Nice warmth, smooth highs and far better dynamics than the lower end AQ stuff I've tried. Big Sur is the lowest model in the line with AQ's highest grade copper - the same stuff that is in their $700-$800 cables. Build quality is excellent as well, very robust and durable.


 
  
 I've heard his cable and there's definitely a difference from cheap cables (to my ears, YMMV, etc).  If I ever get a Mojo, I'll probably snag a Bug Sur as well.
  


lukethywalker said:


> Is there any difference between a 3.5 to 3.5 versus 3.5 to RCA?


 
  
 For use with the LC, no.  But the RCA should give you more flexibility with other amps.


----------



## Hansotek

lukethywalker said:


> Is there any difference between a 3.5 to 3.5 versus 3.5 to RCA?




There shouldn't be, but I think the 3.5mm to RCA is a FAR better investment because most forms of amplification take RCA input. If I purchased the 3.5mm to 3.5mm, I could only use the Mojo with the LC and that old O2 I have sitting around here in a drawer somewhere. 

Because I purchased the 3.5mm to RCA, I could use the Mojo as a DAC with the LC, my Liquid Crimson (along with the LAu, Liquid Glass, Liquid Tungsten, and I think it even got a turn with the Liquid Lightning at Stillhart's house after CanJam, IIRC... Looks like my little Mojo has hit for the cycle!), plus my Stax SRM-1 MK2 and my two channel system. 

So what I'm saying is, it gives you way more options to get the 3.5mm to RCA... at least it did for me.


----------



## LukeThyWalker

Thank you very much for the advice! Sounds like the Big Sur is the way to go.


----------



## jarnopp

lukethywalker said:


> Thank you very much for the advice! Sounds like the Big Sur is the way to go.




I'm late here, but I've had no issues with this Cardas 3.5 to 3.5 between Mojo and LC:

https://www.amazon.com/CARDAS-Audiophile-Interconnect-Adapter-Mini-Plug/dp/B00EY9ZJAE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470384901&sr=8-1&keywords=cardas+3.5+to+3.5


----------



## emptymt

does the 3.5 to 3.5 got run through the phase splitter as well?
  
 I'm about to buy an LC and will use the mojo to power my ether, I already have a fiio 3.5 to 3.5 cable to be used in the setup.
  
 However, I'm not sure if it will be the same as the RCA cable.
  
 like 1 hole for left and right vs 2 holes, 1 for left and 1 for right.
  
 Otherwise, I'll just have it easy and buy a 3.5 to RCA to connect them all together


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

emptymt said:


> does the 3.5 to 3.5 got run through the phase splitter as well?
> 
> I'm about to buy an LC and will use the mojo to power my ether, I already have a fiio 3.5 to 3.5 cable to be used in the setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, both RCA and the 1/8" input both go through the phase splitter.  I used the 1/8" input with my CLAS db for many months till I finally got off my butt and got a Musette, which uses RCA...


----------



## emptymt

buttuglyjeff said:


> Yes, both RCA and the 1/8" input both go through the phase splitter.  I used the 1/8" input with my CLAS db for many months till I finally got off my butt and got a Musette, which uses RCA...


 
 thx for the info man!
  
 As long as it performs the same, I'll just save some money and use the available resource right now hehe


----------



## fiascogarcia

emptymt said:


> thx for the info man!
> 
> As long as it performs the same, I'll just save some money and use the available resource right now hehe


 
 I've used both, both sound the same!


----------



## Peti

And still no update on the delivery of the 2nd batch...


----------



## swspiers

peti said:


> And still no update on the delivery of the 2nd batch...




As a first-batcher, I can assure you the wait is worth it.


----------



## Peti

Yeah, I have sold my first batch too early!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

peti said:


> And still no update on the delivery of the 2nd batch...


 
  
 Just listen to whatever your avatar is, and be happy when it shows...


----------



## mscott58

buttuglyjeff said:


> Just listen to whatever your avatar is, and be happy when it shows...




Looks like an Atma-sphere OTL amp. Amazing tube amp. Have a pair of their monoblocks myself. Cheers


----------



## Allanmarcus

Well, the Schiit Jot looks to be pretty darned nice for $399 (amp only). Up until now, the LC was the "budget" balanced amp, but there's new schiit in town. Guess we'll need to wait to read about comparisons.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

allanmarcus said:


> Well, the Schiit Jot looks to be pretty darned nice for $399 (amp only). Up until now, the LC was the "budget" balanced amp, but there's new schiit in town. Guess we'll need to wait to read about comparisons.


 
  
  
 Except one is coming up, and the other is going away...


----------



## feelingears

It seems safe to say the new Schiit won't be $hitty, and it will be good to have a low priced balanced amp of their qualty in the game. 

As to whether it has any of the LC magic remains to be seen. Er, heard.


----------



## LepakVT

I'm looking forward to reading some comparisons in the next week or two. I'm honestly tempted to click the 'Order' button myself to do my own comparison, but I'll be patient.


----------



## 12Jewelz

Anyone have a direct comparison of the Liquid Carbon vs. the Schiit Mjolnir? In terms of sound quality/power/etc?


----------



## emptymt

12jewelz said:


> Anyone have a direct comparison of the Liquid Carbon vs. the Schiit Mjolnir? In terms of sound quality/power/etc?


 
 check out this review


----------



## 12Jewelz

emptymt said:


> check out this review




Thanks for the review. Now I'm debating weather or not I should cancel my LC order and grab a Mjolnir 2 :-/


----------



## Stillhart

12jewelz said:


> Thanks for the review. Now I'm debating weather or not I should cancel my LC order and grab a Mjolnir 2 :-/


 
  
 The MJ2 is 50% more expensive before getting into expensive tubes.  You might as well get the LC and see if you like it first.  You're not going to be able to get another one easily if you change your mind.  If nothing else, you can sell it for $800 and keep the power cord.


----------



## emptymt

stillhart said:


> The MJ2 is 50% more expensive before getting into expensive tubes.  You might as well get the LC and see if you like it first.  You're not going to be able to get another one easily if you change your mind.  If nothing else, you can sell it for $800 and keep the power cord.


 
 +1
  
 but I guess it depends if you like tube sound or not.
 ooo, and secondly, your genre preference too!!
  
 I think if you listen to metal or something that can be harsh like that, the mj2 being a Schiit could be more revealing and unpleasant to the harsh source.
  
 personally, I'll just save some money and buy an LC(It's a safe bet ^_^)


----------



## 12Jewelz

emptymt said:


> +1
> 
> but I guess it depends if you like tube sound or not.
> ooo, and secondly, your genre preference too!!
> ...




The LC is currently at $799 which is not far off from the MJ2 but as far as obtaining one over the other I guess your right. I wish I could of audition both but that's just near impossible currently.


----------



## shultzee

12jewelz said:


> emptymt said:
> 
> 
> > +1
> ...






Had them both and really liked them both. The MJ2 imho with upgraded tubes is hard to beat for the money.


----------



## 12Jewelz

shultzee said:


> Had them both and really liked them both. The MJ2 imho with upgraded tubes is hard to beat for the money.



Thanks! What tubes did you like best in the MJ2? Why did you get rid of them?


----------



## Allanmarcus

To me the question is the LC vs the Jotunheim.


----------



## LajostheHun

Jotunheim, especially if power is important even if just down the road .


----------



## 12Jewelz

lajosthehun said:


> Jotunheim, especially if power is important even if just down the road .




Ughhh. Now I have to take a peek at the Jotunheim as well.  If the sound is close enough to the LC I may just have to switch my desktop setup.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

lajosthehun said:


> Jotunheim, especially if power is important even if just down the road .




I think the power of the two is closer then you might think. Where did Alex post the power specs of the final production numbers? Let me think about where that was...


----------



## Allanmarcus

buttuglyjeff said:


> lajosthehun said:
> 
> 
> > Jotunheim, especially if power is important even if just down the road .
> ...


----------



## LajostheHun

buttuglyjeff said:


> I think the power of the two is closer then you might think. Where did Alex post the power specs of the final production numbers? Let me think about where that was...



 He posted 1.5w [50R] at the pre production stages, but never followed up on that later. But my own experience doubts that had even that much, unless I had a defective unit.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

lajosthehun said:


> He posted 1.5w [50R] at the pre production stages, but never followed up on that later. But my own experience doubts that had even that much, unless I had a defective unit.




Actually he came back saying it was higher. I'll look for the quote later...


----------



## sheldaze

runeight said:


> Hey gents, time for me to answer some of the questions.
> 
> First, all of my larger amps have offset detectors and delay circuits. These circuits are my own design and do a great job of protecting headphones from DC. Since most of the amps are DC coupled, any DC at the input goes right to the output only amplifier. But there is no room for these circuits in the Carbon so it doesn't have one.
> 
> ...




2.8 watts. It's post #1500 from http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-a-599-cavalli-amp


----------



## emptymt

Hi guys, I'm not very sure about voltage, electricity, power, etc.
  
 I know that the US cable is 110 v, I'm currently waiting for my LC to come and is planning to buy an Australia power cord, normally 240v.
  
 will something like this work fine?
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-3-Pin-to-IEC-Kettle-Cord-Plug-Australian-240V-Power-Cable-Lead-Cord-/370870993155?var=&hash=item5659a24103mTB0edyGGNYieL0hi3eJNmw


----------



## chowmein83

@Allanmarcus @12Jewelz @LajostheHun I've put in an order for the Schiit Jotunheim. I have heard it before at the Schiit Show, but due to the impressions here and other sites about its incredible price-to-performance ratio (like even better than what I originally thought), I felt that I should try one out to at least compare to my LC.
  
 Hopefully I have a comparison up by next week.


----------



## bearFNF

emptymt said:


> Hi guys, I'm not very sure about voltage, electricity, power, etc.
> 
> I know that the US cable is 110 v, I'm currently waiting for my LC to come and is planning to buy an Australia power cord, normally 240v.
> 
> ...


Did you buy it from Cavalli in the final run? If so you should be getting a good cord with it. Assuming you selected the Aus version when ordeting.


----------



## mscott58

chowmein83 said:


> @Allanmarcus @12Jewelz @LajostheHun I've put in an order for the Schiit Jotunheim. I have heard it before at the Schiit Show, but due to the impressions here and other sites about its incredible price-to-performance ratio (like even better than what I originally thought), I felt that I should try one out to at least compare to my LC.
> 
> Hopefully I have a comparison up by next week.


----------



## shultzee

12jewelz said:


> shultzee said:
> 
> 
> > Had them both and really liked them both. The MJ2 imho with upgraded tubes is hard to beat for the money.
> ...


 

 Liquid Crimson is why I moved on at the time.     For the MJ2 I tried various tubes and all were better then stock imho.    The best tubes I had were a matched pair of 75 Reflektors swgp  purchased from a member here that occasionally has them.  He calls  them the Holy Grail of 6922 type tubes and I have to agree.


----------



## Hansotek

shultzee said:


> Liquid Crimson is why I moved on at the time.     For the MJ2 I tried various tubes and all were better then stock imho.    The best tubes I had were a matched pair of 75 Reflektors swgp  purchased from a member here that occasionally has them.  He calls  them the Holy Grail of 6922 type tubes and I have to agree.




I have one of those Holy Grails in the Liquid Crimson. It's a sizable jump from the stock Gold Lion. Their legendary reputation is well-deserved.


----------



## emptymt

bearfnf said:


> Did you buy it from Cavalli in the final run? If so you should be getting a good cord with it. Assuming you selected the Aus version when ordeting.


 

 I buy used from another head-fier, It is the first generation.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

.
  
 Well, lucky LC #7 checking in.  I had my first single ended listen experience the last few days, and I'm happy to report all that worrying I did about balanced only has dissolved away.  I think we all freaked in the early days, and balanced cabled everything.  Thou it was a good thing, it wasn't an absolute.  The Elears sounded great on low gain and would gladly tell anyone not to over worry about it.  I'd be lying if I didn't say I would like to go balanced, I just don't feel any immediate obligation to do so.  I suppose if I had a headphone that was far more power hungry, I prepare myself sooner..


----------



## headfirocks

Is there a consensus as far as the character of this amp?


----------



## Allanmarcus

headfirocks said:


> Is there a consensus as far as the character of this amp?


 

 yes.


----------



## headfirocks

Are you keeping it a secret?


----------



## Allanmarcus

headfirocks said:


> Are you keeping it a secret?




Nope. The answer you seek, grasshopper, can be found in these writings. All you need to do is read them.

Summary. The amp is a little warm, as amps go, but detailed and powerful. It presents the Cavalli house sound well. Much more explanation can be found by reading.


----------



## headfirocks

Does it compete with the Pathos Aurium and Auralic Taurus Mk2 (for example)?


----------



## Allanmarcus

headfirocks said:


> Does it compete with the Pathos Aurium and Auralic Taurus Mk2 (for example)?


 

 I recommend you use the search thread feature and read about people's impressions. There are a few in this thread.


----------



## headfirocks

I'll take that as a no.


----------



## Peti

Take it as he said: use the search function and you will find what you are looking for.


----------



## swspiers

headfirocks said:


> I'll take that as a no.




I know this is frustrating, but you might want to restrain your frustration. This is very much a boutique amplifier, with only 500 of them out in the wild from the first batch. Getting a consensus on anything is rather difficult. For instance, look at the brand Sennheiser. Do the HD series have a veil the rolls off the trouble or don't they? I don't believe there is a consensus one way or the other, and it is such a fun and popular debate that it has its own emoticon: this stands for beating a dead horse, in this case the Sennheiser "veil".

For me, the Liquid Carbon is a medium powered amplifier, that tilts ever so slightly to the warm side. Not quite to the level of tubes, but the treble is extremely controlled with no added sibilance. The bass is authoritative, but not exaggerated.

Is this a consensus? I'm not sure, although I know a few people who agree with my assessment.

I have not heard the amplifiers you mentioned, but I do know they have a pretty good reputation.

No forum, no thread, and no comment can never really replace your own experience with a piece of gear. This is why one of the mottos here is "sorry for your wallet"


----------



## defbear

"For me, the Liquid Carbon is a medium powered amplifier, that tilts ever so slightly to the warm side. Not quite to the level of tubes, but the treble is extremely controlled with no added sibilance. The bass is authoritative, but not exaggerated."

I have one from the first batch. I think the above describes the Liquid Carbon well. I like balanced as well. But my TH900's are to die for in the SE output. A real slammer :0 Nope you do not need balanced.


----------



## Odin412

swspiers said:


> For me, the Liquid Carbon is a medium powered amplifier, that tilts ever so slightly to the warm side. Not quite to the level of tubes, but the treble is extremely controlled with no added sibilance. The bass is authoritative, but not exaggerated.


 
  
 I have an LC from the first batch and this statement nicely sums up my impressions. It's a wonderful amplifier that offers a generous taste of the famous Cavalli sound at an attainable price.


----------



## mscott58

So according to Alex, half of the final run of LAu's have already shipped or are in the process of shipping. The second half is slated for after RMAF. Has anyone here been contacted yet? I fear I am in the second half. Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

mscott58 said:


> So according to Alex, half of the final run of LAu's have already shipped or are in the process of shipping. The second half is slated for after RMAF. Has anyone here been contacted yet? I fear I am in the second half. Cheers


 
  
 There's discussion over here in the LAu thread.  I believe they're shipping in the order the orders were received so yours will probably be in the second batch.


----------



## Wayde

I assume I'm in the second batch. I got a message from Cavalli in mid August saying they're looking at shipping late Sept. I haven't heard anything since. 
  
 I'm waiting but... I'm patient. I've been waiting my entire life, another month or so isn't going to hurt.


----------



## musiclvr

I just received an email saying that my LC 2.0 is due to arrive this Thursday the 6th as it will be shipped out today!!!


----------



## Mr Rick

So.........has anyone been able to compare the LC to Schiits new "Jot". I'm on the waiting list for the next run of "Jots".


----------



## Clemmaster

mr rick said:


> So.........has anyone been able to compare the LC to Schiits new "Jot". I'm on the waiting list for the next run of "Jots".


 
  
 Jot has more punch and details. Can be bright at times.
 LC has more enveloping sound and warmer tonality.
  
 Jot is technically superior. Its tonality might not appeal to bright headphone owners.


----------



## Mr Rick

clemmaster said:


> Jot has more punch and details. Can be bright at times.
> LC has more enveloping sound and warmer tonality.
> 
> Jot is technically superior. Its tonality might not appeal to bright headphone owners.


 
  
 Sounds like they will be a good complement to each other.


----------



## lenroot77

clemmaster said:


> Jot has more punch and details. Can be bright at times.
> LC has more enveloping sound and warmer tonality.
> 
> Jot is technically superior. Its tonality might not appeal to bright headphone owners.




What do u find technically superior? Power output? Just curious.


----------



## Clemmaster

Mainly more revealing of small details throughout. Tighter sound and more impact.

The LC tonality (warmish, with good clarity) and soundstage presentation (more laid back) is very appealing, though. The Jot is more forward and brighter.

For those who know Audio-GD amps, the LC is like a SA-31 and the Jot more like a NFB-6 or NFB-1amp (brighter, though).


----------



## lenroot77

clemmaster said:


> Mainly more revealing of small details throughout. Tighter sound and more impact.
> 
> The LC tonality (warmish, with good clarity) and soundstage presentation (more laid back) is very appealing, though. The Jot is more forward and brighter.
> 
> For those who know Audio-GD amps, the LC is like a SA-31 and the Jot more like a NFB-6 or NFB-1amp (brighter, though).




I've been curious about the Jot, but being as my main headphone is the hd800. I'd guess the LC is a better pairing.


----------



## purk

lenroot77 said:


> I've been curious about the Jot, but being as my main headphone is the hd800. I'd guess the LC is a better pairing.


 
 You should try both and don't rule out the Jot.  A friend of mine actually prefer the Jot over the LC and he has the HD800.


----------



## Mr Rick

purk said:


> You should try both and don't rule out the Jot.  A friend of mine actually prefer the Jot over the LC and he has the HD800.


 
  
 I'll be building a two channel system around the Jot. Hopefully with a Schiit speaker amp.


----------



## Clemmaster

The LC is definitely a better candidate for the HD-800.
 Unless you can't hear anything past 6kHz...


----------



## bettyn

clemmaster said:


> The LC is definitely a better candidate for the HD-800.
> Unless you can't hear anything past 6kHz...


 
 Glad to hear the LC is good with the HD-800. Am planning to use this combination. Just received my address confirmation today. Can"t wait until it gets here!


----------



## Clemmaster

I'm not saying it's good or bad.
But from a sound signature perspective, it is a better match for the HD-800 than the Jot.

Some people don't mind bright and will love the Jot with them. I sure do hope they have a very warm DAC in the front end 

I sold my 800s long before I got the LC, so I never could confirm it would be good. That 6kHz peak is really a needle in my ears (or pain in my @**, whichever comes first).


----------



## chowmein83

clemmaster said:


> Jot has more punch and details. Can be bright at times.
> LC has more enveloping sound and warmer tonality.
> 
> Jot is technically superior. Its tonality might not appeal to bright headphone owners.


 
@Mr Rick I'm tagging you in this because you might be interested in what I have to say.
  
 First off, I have owned both the LC and the Jot. I have extensively compared them on my own headphones and other audio gear (see my profile for more details). And of course, I volume-matched the amps when I did my comparisons.
  
 I have to say I disagree with @Clemmaster here - except for the Jot being bright at times part. The Jot can be sometimes bright, but I consider it to be just slightly brighter than neutral. The LC, on the other hand, is what I would consider to be slightly warmer than neutral. Maybe to some people this difference is quite big, but personally I don't think this to be the case - the tonality of both of these amps to me is a lot more similar than you might think.
  
 As for the more punch part - nope, I honestly cannot hear a difference between the LC and the Jot. Both are equally punchy, and most importantly they're both the good type of punchy, where it's not exaggerated but highly satisfying.
  
 As for the more details part - again, I don't find this to be the case either. The Jot at first listen might seem more detailed because of its somewhat brighter and more forward nature. However, I found that whenever I noticed something on the Jot, I would go back to the Cavalli and find that same detail there with the same amount of clarity.
  
 So why did I say that the Jot and the LC seem to present the same amount of detail, even though my sentence above suggests that it may be harder to find the details in the LC? This is simply because of the presentation. Jot is quite upfront and so all of the details are immediately noticeable whether you want to notice them or not. With the Cavalli, the details are all still there but the amp isn't as forward with those details as with the Jot. So with the LC you can choose to tune out on the details, but with a tiny bit of effort you could easily find those details if you wanted to.
  
 There is one thing that I find the LC to be superior in - the soundstage. First off, I don't really think that the soundstage size of the Jot and the LC are really that different - soundstage width and depth between the two amps are about the same to me. I also feel that the imaging abilities of the two amps are similar to each other. However, I do feel that the soundstage of the Cavalli is definitely more 3D - as in, you are more easily discern what is further and closer to you in the music, something that I usually call "layering." In comparison, the Jot squishes together what is closer and further to you, making it harder to distinguish exactly how far different parts of the song are from you.
  
 Overall, though, I still think that the Jot is a better value simply because while it mostly matches the LC's performance, it's cheaper than even the first run LC by a good margin, and the fact it's not a limited-run product and you can readily buy it. However, I will admit that I kept the LC and return the Jot for two main reasons - 1.) I really like my soundstage technical abilities, which I found the LC to be better at and 2.) I like the appeal of the LC as a limited-run amp that may not be produced ever again in the future. The second reason is really an irrational reason, but hey why not?
  
 If I have more time, I would like to write a more detailed comparison between the Jot and the LC, but hope this short comparison helps anybody who wants to know how the two amps stack up against each other!


----------



## Greggo

chowmein83 said:


> @Mr Rick I'm tagging you in this because you might be interested in what I have to say.
> 
> First off, I have owned both the LC and the Jot. I have extensively compared them on my own headphones and other audio gear (see my profile for more details). And of course, I volume-matched the amps when I did my comparisons.
> 
> I have to say I disagree with @Clemmaster here - except for the Jot being bright at times part. The Jot can be sometimes bright, but I consider it to be just slightly brighter than neutral. The LC, on the other hand, is what I would consider to be slightly warmer than neutral. Maybe to some people this difference is quite big, but personally I don't think this to be the case - the tonality of both of these amps to me is a lot more similar than you might think.....


 
  
 Thank for this description! I am waiting on my LC and very excited about it, but of course continue to wonder if I made the right choice and how this all plays out over the next few years of headphone hobby stuff. I much prefer a warmer signature and value spacial cues and layering above absolute detail resolution so it sounds like the LC is going to have as good a chance as any to be my own personal end game. I have balanced cables ready to go for my Nighthawk and R70x, have high hopes my new DT 1990 will still benefit even though single ended, and my PM-3 as well (though that is mostly for travel and office use, and I am probably not going to spend the extra money on a balanced cable for the PM-3).
  
 Now the big question is, which higher end headphone is going to be the perfect addition to my home listening studio given the LC and the stable mates listed above? I am looking at HD800S, Ether Flow, and Elear. Any opinions on these three and how they would fit in? I have heard the HD800S and was very impressed... I owned HD700 and heard original HD800 many times, but I probably won't get a chance to hear the Ether Flow or the Elear anytime soon but will try to work something out.


----------



## scanspeakman1

greggo said:


> Thank for this description! I am waiting on my LC and very excited about it, but of course continue to wonder if I made the right choice and how this all plays out over the next few years of headphone hobby stuff. I much prefer a warmer signature and value spacial cues and layering above absolute detail resolution so it sounds like the LC is going to have as good a chance as any to be my own personal end game. I have balanced cables ready to go for my Nighthawk and R70x, have high hopes my new DT 1990 will still benefit even though single ended, and my PM-3 as well (though that is mostly for travel and office use, and I am probably not going to spend the extra money on a balanced cable for the PM-3).
> 
> Now the big question is, which higher end headphone is going to be the perfect addition to my home listening studio given the LC and the stable mates listed above? I am looking at HD800S, Ether Flow, and Elear. Any opinions on these three and how they would fit in? I have heard the HD800S and was very impressed... I owned HD700 and heard original HD800 many times, but I probably won't get a chance to hear the Ether Flow or the Elear anytime soon but will try to work something out.


 
  
 Till so far I have been using the LC with my Ether 1.1 . Really good combination. Love listening for longer periods of time. Currently I am "Ether-less" and awaiting my upgrade to Ether Flow. So I cannot comment on that combo but I cannot imagine this will sound any worse.....
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## mandrake50

clemmaster said:


> Jot has more punch and details. Can be bright at times.
> LC has more enveloping sound and warmer tonality.
> 
> Jot is technically superior. Its tonality might not appeal to bright headphone owners.


 

 Seriously.. I ask again, in this context, what does "technically Superior" mean?
 This is something thrown around quite often, but I am unsure of what it means. Especially since we all perceive things differently.
 I am sincerely curious.


----------



## heliosphann

My v1 Liquid Carbon is up for sale in the FS/FT forum. Hate to let it go, but its older sibling doesn't let it get any playtime anymore.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

mandrake50 said:


> Seriously.. I ask again, in this context, what does "technically Superior" mean?
> This is something thrown around quite often, but I am unsure of what it means. Especially since we all perceive things differently.
> I am sincerely curious.


 
  
 Well, the Jotunheim is a more precise amp, then the LC. Its also more forward, with less rolled off edges.  But I'm not sold on flat out "superior".  The Jot was awesome with my HD650s and MDR-Z7.  But not with the Focal Elears.  And I suspect an HD800 (any variant) owner would prefer the LC by leaps and bounds.  But that is speculative, and everyone's taste is different.
  
 Now planars would be an interesting amp shootout.  I think both amp would drive most planars quite nicely but with different flavors added.  So I think that might be a push.
  
 I want a Jot, but not to replace my LC.  I want it as a compliment...


----------



## krud484

mandrake50 said:


> Seriously.. I ask again, in this context, what does "technically Superior" mean?
> This is something thrown around quite often, but I am unsure of what it means. Especially since we all perceive things differently.
> I am sincerely curious.


 

 I think he meant the volume pot, or rather the spec sheet. The Jotunheim can supposedly drive the HE-6. The LC only does 1.5w into 50 ohms; the HE-6 needs 5w into 50 ohms to be driven properly.
  
 The LC can be overclocked to do 2.8w, and I would love to know the circumstances on how to obtain that. I don’t need that much personally, but no one talks about how to get it. How unstable can it be? What would it even sound like?
  
 Edit: typos


----------



## Priaptor

Anyone interested in a Version 1 LC I have mine listed. Looking for quick sale. Have the Lau and not looking back. The LC is amazing and really got me hooked on headphones as I am a big system guy. Love both the LC and Lau with my HD800s and LCD-X (latter also listed) and now finding myself listening more and more to my headphone system and less and less to my big system.


----------



## Angaria

If someone in Chicago wants to compare the new Hifiman He1000 v2 (which I have) vs the original on a bunch of different norne cables.... with your cavalli amp, let me know.


----------



## doraymon

Just checking in as my LC should be with me very soon...


----------



## doraymon

x relic x said:


> Because Rob Watts is using his WTA filter with the FPGA and his Pulse Array DAC the _noise from the DAC is so clean_ he only needs one discrete opamp stage (the crucial I/V conversion) and that's it. The Mojo simply doesn't have a separate headphone amp in the way that other devices do, and it's very simple for the sake of transparency. Think of it more like a variable line-out using digital volume control rather than a headphone amp. The measurements of the headphone out are certainly much better than most DACs line out as well (especially at this price).
> 
> To allay any fears of using the headphone out of the Mojo you'd be interested to know that the Hugo, Hugo TT, DAVE, all basically share the same path from their line-out as the headphone out in those devices. If you'd like to know more you can read the third post of the Mojo Thread which has a mountain of information, including the explanation about the output stage in the Mojo.
> 
> You can use a regular 3.5mm interconnect from the Mojo to the Liquid Carbon. That's what I did when I had mine (sold my Liquid Carbon):




As you seem to be very knowledgeable about Rob Watts design of Mojo and Hugo, may I ask you if you heard any noticeable change in the sound when adding the LC to the equation?
Rob has always stated that with most headphones it is not necessary to add an amp due to his special design. He also says that the addition of any amp would only bring coloration of some sort and reduce transparency.

I would be very interested to hear your opinion on how the LC affects the picture as an addition to the Mojo.
Thanks!


----------



## x RELIC x

doraymon said:


> As you seem to be very knowledgeable about Rob Watts design of Mojo and Hugo, may I ask you if you heard any noticeable change in the sound when adding the LC to the equation?
> Rob has always stated that with most headphones it is not necessary to add an amp due to his special design. He also says that the addition of any amp would only bring coloration of some sort and reduce transparency.
> 
> I would be very interested to hear your opinion on how the LC affects the picture as an addition to the Mojo.
> Thanks!




It's been a while since I sold my Liquid Carbon (I upgraded to the last run of the Liquid Gold) so my memory is fading about the specific sound qualities. With the Liquid Carbon added to the Mojo it added a slightly more euphoric sound. It isn't a huge difference as the little amp is quite clean, but it did alter the sound slightly. Added warmth is what I recall and a slightly more holographic presentation. I would also say it depends on the headphone connected as well.

By nature you can't add a component and reduce transparency so in that sense Rob is 100% correct and I agree with him. On the other hand adding an amp like the Liquid Carbon would speak to our sense of musical enjoyment. The nice thing about using an amp like the Liquid Carbon in addition to the Mojo is it still retains the qualities of the Mojo that are great, namely the timing, depth, and timbre of instruments, IMO. To make it short, the addition of the Liquid Carbon, to me, was rather subtle but enjoyable.


----------



## doraymon

x relic x said:


> It's been a while since I sold my Liquid Carbon (I upgraded to the last run of the Liquid Gold) so my memory is fading about the specific sound qualities. With the Liquid Carbon added to the Mojo it added a slightly more euphoric sound. It isn't a huge difference as the little amp is quite clean, but it did alter the sound slightly. Added warmth is what I recall and a slightly more holographic presentation. I would also say it depends on the headphone connected as well.
> 
> By nature you can't add a component and reduce transparency so in that sense Rob is 100% correct and I agree with him. On the other hand adding an amp like the Liquid Carbon would speak to our sense of musical enjoyment. The nice thing about using an amp like the Liquid Carbon in addition to the Mojo is it still retains the qualities of the Mojo that are great, namely the timing, depth, and timbre of instruments, IMO. To make it short, the addition of the Liquid Carbon, to me, was rather subtle but enjoyable.



Thanks 
Did you use it with the Ether C in the picture?


----------



## x RELIC x

doraymon said:


> Thanks
> Did you use it with the Ether C in the picture?




Yup. The LCD-2 (pre-Fazor) as well.


----------



## jarnopp

krud484 said:


> I think he meant the volume pot, or rather the spec sheet. The Jotunheim can supposedly drive the HE-6. The LC only does 1.5V into 50 ohms; the HE-6 needs 5V into 50 ohms to be driven properly.
> 
> The LC can be overclocked to do 2.8V, and I would love to know the circumstances on how to obtain that. I don’t need that much personally, but no one talks about how to get it. How unstable can it be? What would it even sound like?




Not sure where you are getting some of your info, but Cavalli has stated that while spec'd at 1.5 W(atts) the LC will actually provide 2.8W continuous into 50 ohms. No special overclocking required. And, I am happily using the LC to drive HE-6. I've compared this to speaker amps with plenty of power and the LC drives the HE-6 nicely. Using the Mojo, and using 3v "line out" setting, or even a few clicks higher, you get the mist out of the LC without clipping.


----------



## krud484

jarnopp said:


> Not sure where you are getting some of your info, but Cavalli has stated that while spec'd at 1.5 W(atts) the LC will actually provide 2.8W continuous into 50 ohms. No special overclocking required. And, I am happily using the LC to drive HE-6. I've compared this to speaker amps with plenty of power and the LC drives the HE-6 nicely. Using the Mojo, and using 3v "line out" setting, or even a few clicks higher, you get the mist out of the LC without clipping.


 

 My mistake, I meant watts not voltage. The LC is implicitly listed as 1.5w and nowhere but here does one of the engineers mention the 2.8w. I believe the words stated “only comes into play when you need it.” I don't quite get the sentiment there. Can it be pushed to that with a DAC or when a headphone needs that much juice? No one talks about it beyond that original (post).
  
 My iFi iDSD will only output 2v for line out. I’ve yet to push the threshold on the volume pot of the LC. I don’t have anything that needs it. I live with someone who does have the HE-6 but we still haven’t tried out the pairing. There aren't many here who have listened to these two together. It’s interesting you say it drives yours pretty well.  I have my doubts though. With certain pieces of music like SACDs and vinyl, it’s rather pressing to drive even the HD800 on high gain.


----------



## jarnopp

krud484 said:


> My mistake, I meant watts not voltage. The LC is implicitly listed as 1.5w and nowhere but here does one of the engineers mention the 2.8w. I believe the words stated “only comes into play when you need it.” I don't quite get the sentiment there. Can it be pushed to that with a DAC or when a headphone needs that much juice? No one talks about it beyond that original (post).
> 
> My iFi iDSD will only output 2v for line out. I’ve yet to push the threshold on the volume pot of the LC. I don’t have anything that needs it. I live with someone who does have the HE-6 but we still haven’t tried out the pairing. There aren't many here who have listened to these two together. It’s interesting you say it drives yours pretty well.  I have my doubts though. With certain pieces of music like SACDs and vinyl, it’s rather pressing to drive even the HD800 on high gain.




Well, he person who said it was the owner and designer, so hopefully that post was accurate. You should try the HE-6 with your LC and judge for yourself. (Edit: balanced, of course, or you only get 1/4 the power.) At line out from the Mojo, e LC sounds best on high gain and I'm listening between 9-10 o'clock for pop/rock. More for classical. At about 2v output, rock/pop is about 11-12 on the LC. 

I've demoed the HD800s with just Mojo and fel like there's plenty of juice there, but haven't tried it with the LC. Can't imagine it couldn't handle it, especially on high gain, but maybe not a good synergy.


----------



## krud484

jarnopp said:


> Well, he person who said it was the owner and designer, so hopefully that post was accurate. You should try the HE-6 with your LC and judge for yourself. (Edit: balanced, of course, or you only get 1/4 the power.) At line out from the Mojo, e LC sounds best on high gain and I'm listening between 9-10 o'clock for pop/rock. More for classical. At about 2v output, rock/pop is about 11-12 on the LC.
> 
> I've demoed the HD800s with just Mojo and fel like there's plenty of juice there, but haven't tried it with the LC. Can't imagine it couldn't handle it, especially on high gain, but maybe not a good synergy.


 

 I’ve never heard the HD800 sound bad in any way. The synergy it has on my friend’s Benchmark DAC 2 and Mjolnir 2 is extraordinary. The LC with the Benchmark is quite a smooth presentation of the HD800. We just have issues driving stuff with high dynamic range; like RMS levels averaging around 20+. No matter the format, it’s about the source, how well it was mastered and how quiet it is. Brickwalled rock from late 90s to today is typically at that 11 or 12 o’clock with RMS averaging 5-10. That is very easy to drive on high gain with the HD800. The Benchmark is still doing its 3 dbs of headroom to prevent clipping.
  
 It's convenient of the Mojo to allow the fixed line out to be so easily adjustable. I don't have that here without putting the iFi in preamp mode, apparently I get 5v that way. I'm not a fan of the preamp mode sound in either the iFi or the Benchmark. The sound from fixed line out performs better to my ears and with more consistency to what I know the DACs to sound like.
  
 I want to pair my Pono with the LC to get an end to end balanced connection. Surf Cables makes some TRRS to male XLRs. The Pono has a fixed line out with about 1.9v in balanced mode. It would be a sufficient pairing.
  
 Edit: typo


----------



## doctorjazz

I just use the single ended line out of the Pono. The LC splitter is supposed to make balanced source not essential. I suppose you can make the argument that the signal out of the Pono would have a lower noise floor and better fidelity done line out balanced (Pono balanced into my W40 just SINGS), but it's just more dang cables to keep track of


----------



## krud484

doctorjazz said:


> I just use the single ended line out of the Pono. The LC splitter is supposed to make balanced source not essential. I suppose you can make the argument that the signal out of the Pono would have a lower noise floor and better fidelity done line out balanced (Pono balanced into my W40 just SINGS), but it's just more dang cables to keep track of


 

 Have you read (this) article on the specs behind the Pono?
  
 Basically it says the Pono does almost 1v with line out single end. You get more juice in balanced mode. My train of thought here is to bypass the phase splitter in the LC and pass the balanced signal through end to end. Cavalli states in the manual, the LC specs out best sound quality wise with a balanced source. That’s not to say single end input isn’t bad by any means. I’m just curious if the benefits are audible.


----------



## doctorjazz

Curious as well, use my Pono as source quite a bit.


----------



## harpo1

krud484 said:


> Have you read (this) article on the specs behind the Pono?
> 
> Basically it says the Pono does almost 1v with line out single end. You get more juice in balanced mode. My train of thought here is to bypass the phase splitter in the LC and pass the balanced signal through end to end. Cavalli states in the manual, the LC specs out best sound quality wise with a balanced source. That’s not to say single end input isn’t bad by any means. I’m just curious if the benefits are audible.


 
 I've a/b single ended vs balanced input and listened out the balanced output and can't tell the difference.


----------



## acap13

Hello fellow LC user..
Do anyone know LC's amp topology?


----------



## runeight

The LC is a bridged balanced amplifier using four discrete, current feedback unity gain stable opamps.


----------



## acap13

runeight said:


> The LC is a bridged balanced amplifier using four discrete, current feedback unity gain stable opamps.




Thank you for the follow up Dr. Alex..Could i know which amps class LC is running on to? By the way,am sorry for the novice question but i am interested to know this since i cannot retrieve/miss it through my reading here.


----------



## Halazzi

Very interested in this amp after hearing one at RMAF and seeing a lot of LC 1s at good prices - anything to know about V1 vs V2?


----------



## Hansotek

halazzi said:


> Very interested in this amp after hearing one at RMAF and seeing a lot of LC 1s at good prices - anything to know about V1 vs V2?




V2 has an upgraded power supply that makes the single-ended output run quieter.


----------



## frankrondaniel

For anyone interested in buying a first-run Liquid Carbon I've listed my Liquid Carbon for sale.  The Liquid Gold is hogging all of the listening time!


----------



## feelingears

Hey all,

Two, count em, two 2nd run L Carbons for sale! Don't miss out on your chance to own a piece of history, not just some regular Schiit!

My loss is your gain! 

You're welcome ,
Fake J. Stoddard


----------



## phonyx

I have damaged my Liquid Carbon 
  
I recently bought a second hand Liquid Carbon amp. I just bought a new DAC (Hugo TT) and tonight was comparing running DAC direct into my headphones and then switched to the Liquid Carbon (connected to the TT's XLR outs). When I removed the headphones plug from the Liquid Carbon, I thought I'd turned it off after I turned the volume down to zero but I didn't fully depress the button... I noticed the lights flicker on the unit when I unplugged it but didn't think anything of it right away and turned it off. 
  
I listening to the DAC direct for a couple of minutes, then switched back to the LC - the sound was heavily distorted in the right channel. I've powered it down, tried different cables and DAC - no avail - it would appear merely unplugging the TRS plug from the amp with it powered on has damaged the Amp's the right channel.
  
I don't know if this is just a one off for me, but please guys be careful unplugging your phones - do not unplug the TRS jack with the amp is powered on even with the volume at zero!


----------



## Hansotek

phonyx said:


> I have damaged my Liquid Carbon
> 
> [COLOR=2B2E2F]I recently bought a second hand Liquid Carbon amp. I just bought a new DAC (Hugo TT) and tonight was comparing running DAC direct into my headphones and then switched to the Liquid Carbon (connected to the TT's XLR outs). When I removed the headphones plug from the Liquid Carbon, I thought I'd turned it off after I turned the volume down to zero but I didn't fully depress the button... I noticed the lights flicker on the unit when I unplugged it but didn't think anything of it right away and turned it off.[/COLOR]
> 
> ...




Simply unplugging your headphones should not have damaged your amp. Something else went wrong here. You should email Cavalli about the issue.


----------



## fiascogarcia

phonyx said:


> I have damaged my Liquid Carbon
> 
> I recently bought a second hand Liquid Carbon amp. I just bought a new DAC (Hugo TT) and tonight was comparing running DAC direct into my headphones and then switched to the Liquid Carbon (connected to the TT's XLR outs). When I removed the headphones plug from the Liquid Carbon, I thought I'd turned it off after I turned the volume down to zero but I didn't fully depress the button... I noticed the lights flicker on the unit when I unplugged it but didn't think anything of it right away and turned it off.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


hansotek said:


> Simply unplugging your headphones should not have damaged your amp. Something else went wrong here. You should email Cavalli about the issue.


 
 I've disconnected and reconnected my headphones and ciem, using the balanced jacks, with the LC power on, with no negative effect.


----------



## mscott58

fiascogarcia said:


> I've disconnected and reconnected my headphones and ciem, using the balanced jacks, with the LC power on, with no negative effect.


 
 Same here.


----------



## phonyx

Maybe it's just my amp then? There was no music playing and volume was at zero. I usually don't hot swap anything (ie: I power things off before changing any cabling) and I meant to this time as well but it's late here and I just missed the button, but I've never heard of this blowing something before. 
  
 I'm devastated. I'm from Australia and shipping it back to the US is going to be cost prohibitive.


----------



## harpo1

phonyx said:


> Maybe it's just my amp then? There was no music playing and volume was at zero. I usually don't hot swap anything (ie: I power things off before changing any cabling) and I meant to this time as well but it's late here and I just missed the button, but I've never heard of this blowing something before.
> 
> I'm devastated. I'm from Australia and shipping it back to the US is going to be cost prohibitive.


 
 This happened to someone early on with the first run.


----------



## phonyx

Ugh really? Mine's from the first batch too.


----------



## doctorjazz

Mine is from the first batch, no similar problems with unplugging. You should be covered, but I get that shipping will make it not worthwhile.


----------



## phonyx

Thanks folks. I've reached out to Cavalli, hopefully I can get this sorted out.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

harpo1 said:


> This happened to someone early on with the first run.


 
  
 I thought that was when there was 2 headphones plugged in?


----------



## fiascogarcia

phonyx said:


> Thanks folks. I've reached out to Cavalli, hopefully I can get this sorted out.


 
  
  


buttuglyjeff said:


> I thought that was when there was 2 headphones plugged in?


 
 I seem to recall the same thing;  when 2 phones were plugged in.


----------



## phonyx

Ok just an update. They've been really good and in this instance and due to the nature of the issue are going to help me out a bit with shipping there and cover it back to me. 

I'll be sending it over to them when they give me a RMA number/return address. Good thing I've got the original box!!

Accidents happen but this is the kind of after sale service that differentiates the good from the great and wins customers. 




fiascogarcia said:


> I seem to recall the same thing;  when 2 phones were plugged in.




I think I recall reading something like that too. I think in that instance guy had phones connected via XLR and plugged in an un-terminated (no phones connected) TRS to balanced adapter and it instantly caused similar issues.


----------



## rollinbr

phonyx said:


> Ok just an update. They've been really good and in this instance and due to the nature of the issue are going to help me out a bit with shipping there and cover it back to me.
> 
> I'll be sending it over to them when they give me a RMA number/return address. Good thing I've got the original box!!
> 
> ...


 
 I wish I could find the original post with this issue but unable to locate it. But at the time I decided to try 2 headphones plugged in and the amp was just fine. I have just tried it again. Have the HD800S connected XLR output and Ether connected SE output, no issue. Unplug Ether while music is playing, no problem. Just plug in XLR to SE adapter that is used for the Ether by itself with no Ether connected and HD800S still connected on XLR output, no issue with the amp. Tried these different scenarios several times. Even swapped the two headphones around on the different outputs. No problems/issues.
  
 I'm confident to say that if one does develop an issue then it is an issue with the amp itself. I think some have thought it was a design flaw. Saw where some have been deathly afraid to have someone plug in two headphones at a once in fear of the amp having an issue and crapping out on them.  
  
 phonyx, I do feel for you having to ship the amp all the way from Australia and it is nice to know that Cavalli is helping you out with that. One of the best things that Cavalli did for this amp, LC V1, was to give it lifetime warranty. Can't beat that for customer service. 
  
 Have had both headphones plugged in for 25 minutes playing music, no issues.............


----------



## harpo1

rollinbr said:


> I wish I could find the original post with this issue but unable to locate it. But at the time I decided to try 2 headphones plugged in and the amp was just fine. I have just tried it again. Have the HD800S connected XLR output and Ether connected SE output, no issue. Unplug Ether while music is playing, no problem. Just plug in XLR to SE adapter that is used for the Ether by itself with no Ether connected and HD800S still connected on XLR output, no issue with the amp. Tried these different scenarios several times. Even swapped the two headphones around on the different outputs. No problems/issues.
> 
> I'm confident to say that if one does develop an issue then it is an issue with the amp itself. I've saw where some have been deathly afraid to have someone plug in two headphones at a once in fear of the amp having an issue and crapping out on them.
> 
> ...


 
 I think it's just an isolated incident.  Since I can only recall this and the other one early on in the thread.  Components can fail but as long as Cavalli stands by their product it's all good IMO.


----------



## korotnam

rollinbr said:


> I wish I could find the original post with this issue but unable to locate it. But at the time I decided to try 2 headphones plugged in and the amp was just fine. I have just tried it again. Have the HD800S connected XLR output and Ether connected SE output, no issue. Unplug Ether while music is playing, no problem. Just plug in XLR to SE adapter that is used for the Ether by itself with no Ether connected and HD800S still connected on XLR output, no issue with the amp. Tried these different scenarios several times. Even swapped the two headphones around on the different outputs. No problems/issues.
> 
> I'm confident to say that if one does develop an issue then it is an issue with the amp itself. I think some have thought it was a design flaw. Saw where some have been deathly afraid to have someone plug in two headphones at a once in fear of the amp having an issue and crapping out on them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 This was actually me back in April. I had an EtherC already connected to the XLR output and plugged in an HD800 to the SE output. The Carbon broke instantly and I was getting terrible bass clipping in both channels.
  
 I emailed Alex and they paid for the shipping and had it back to me in a couple weeks. Here's a copy/paste from his email response "This has happened on some amps we think because of parts which may not meet their specs."


----------



## Pawn

How does it compare to the ALO studio 6?


----------



## phonyx

Thanks Rollinbr they've been good about it and I hope it can be easily repaired. 



korotnam said:


> This was actually me back in April. I had an EtherC already connected to the XLR output and plugged in an HD800 to the SE output. The Carbon broke instantly and I was getting terrible bass clipping in both channels.
> 
> I emailed Alex and they paid for the shipping and had it back to me in a couple weeks. Here's a copy/paste from his email response "[COLOR=1F497D]This has happened on some amps we think because of parts which may not meet their specs."[/COLOR]




Ah it was you. Their response seems to make sense in as much as some components can handle the difficulty that plugging/unplugging a TRS plug with he amp outputting signal. Mine failed unplugging the TRS plug with the volume at zero so it's a little odd in that regard.


----------



## thatonenoob

Hello folks,

As a possible owner of a first-gen liquid gen very soon, I am curious to know if all the first gen liquid carbons have humming issues, or whether it is just smaller isolated issue.

Sorry if this has been asked before, so thanks in advance.


----------



## scanspeakman1

I have a first gen LC. Tested it with both Balanced and SE headphones. Ho hum at all on both outputs.
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## thatonenoob

scanspeakman1 said:


> I have a first gen LC. Tested it with both Balanced and SE headphones. Ho hum at all on both outputs.
> 
> Scanspeakman




Thanks for the reply! But ermmm....ho hum? No hum perhaps?


----------



## doctorjazz

Don't hum (that I notice) on my v1, single ended or balanced.


----------



## emptymt

thatonenoob said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> As a possible owner of a first-gen liquid gen very soon, I am curious to know if all the first gen liquid carbons have humming issues, or whether it is just smaller isolated issue.
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before, so thanks in advance.


 
 minu hums on SE output, and I believe all first gen units have this problem, especially if you use low impedance HP, I tried PM-3 and it hum like crazy.
 Balanced output has no problems in it.


----------



## sahmen

No hums on my first gen 1 unit, whether in balanced or SE mode...  To be fair, the problem did indeed exist on some units, and their owners complained. Mine is, however, completely quiet in SE mode, but I cannot comment on how common the issue is among all the Gen 1 units.


----------



## negatron81

I had a first gen, the hum was only present for certain , very sensitive gear on the SE output (Shure se846) for my other phones, HIfiman HE400, LCD-XC, Fisher FA-002W, Grado MS1000 no such issues.


----------



## thatonenoob

Thanks for the feedback guys, will definitely move forward anyways.  It's a nice amp and it's really awesome to see a company stand so firmly by their product.  +1


----------



## bearFNF

Mine was sent back and the hum was drastically reduced. So if yours has a lot of noise you might consider contacting Cavalli.


----------



## thatonenoob

bearfnf said:


> Mine was sent back and the hum was drastically reduced. So if yours has a lot of noise you might consider contacting Cavalli.


 
 Yup, just sent an email to double check on the matter!


----------



## Pawn

Is it Heavy to carry around?


----------



## doctorjazz

Nah, throw it in a headphone carrying case, easy to transport.


----------



## scanspeakman1

thatonenoob said:


> Thanks for the reply! But ermmm....ho hum? No hum perhaps?


 







 of course! Ho hum on your LC voids the warranty i guess.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## scanspeakman1

pawn said:


> Is it Heavy to carry around?


 

 Not at all. I am using a pelican case to carry my LC, stoner acoustics EGD dac (same size and weight), cables and Ether Flow. Perfect transportable (not portable) HP rig!
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## thatonenoob

Acquired the Liquid Carbon, and had the warranty transferred.  Can't say I'm not impressed by both the amp and the service. Really smooth handling especially on the customer service side....will definitely do more listening.


----------



## tvnosaint

I've never had a hum issue in my gen 1. I can't remember even trying it single ended.


----------



## mandrake50

The only time I detected hum with my V1 was using the single ended output and balanced input. SE input from the DAC never gave any hum on SE or balanced output. Tying chassis ground of the DAC and amp together removed any hum regardless of input and output mix and match. It is just too easy to run a patch cable from one channel of the DAC to one channel of the LC then use balanced in. Resulting in No hum on either output. I use the LC regularly. I have not thought being without it worth  sending it in to have it "fixed".


----------



## mwhals

What is a good DAC to with USB input to feed the liquid carbon?

Is it correct that the liquid carbon is warm? I am hoping for more natural.


----------



## genius753

Yes the liquid carbon is warm...take a ess 9018 chip...she is very detailled so very good with the liquid carbon...I have a stoner accoustics end game dac with my lc...its a good combination for me...sorry for my bad english


----------



## scanspeakman1

genius753 said:


> Yes the liquid carbon is warm...take a ess 9018 chip...she is very detailled so very good with the liquid carbon...I have a stoner accoustics end game dac with my lc...its a good combination for me...sorry for my bad english


 

 Same DAC here. Perfect combination. Same size, Even look a little the same style. Balanced outputs. And really good sound!
  
 Scanspeakman


----------



## Peridot

The Emotiva DC-1 is also a well-regarded companion for the LC.
  
 Not as nice a physical match however.


----------



## thatguyuphigh

mscott58 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Regarding the Mojo, having it SE into a Cavalli makes it a better overall listening experience then other DAC's I've used that cost 3-4x as much.


 
 Even compared to the gumby? I'm looking for a new dac and I have heard the gumby which sounds amazing but not the mojo. Any thoughts on this from others who have tried either or both?


----------



## mscott58

thatguyuphigh said:


> Even compared to the gumby? I'm looking for a new dac and I have heard the gumby which sounds amazing but not the mojo. Any thoughts on this from others who have tried either or both?


 
 Great question! While I've heard the Gungnir in its original form, I don't have hands-on experience with the Gumby. However, I know many people that like it very much, some even the same or slightly more than the Yggy. I would therefore highly recommend that people take a look at the Gumby, especially for someone looking for a non-DS DAC. Cheers


----------



## sheldaze

I think both Mojo and Gumby are quite good, when played through the Carbon.
  
 I do not have a personal preference, and switch from one to the other without missing the sound from the other (not being played DAC). If you asked the same question into speakers, I would respond quite differently, having made this comparison just a weekend ago. But through headphones, I like them both.


----------



## thatguyuphigh

mscott58 said:


> Great question! While I've heard the Gungnir in its original form, I don't have hands-on experience with the Gumby. However, I know many people that like it very much, some even the same or slightly more than the Yggy. I would therefore highly recommend that people take a look at the Gumby, especially for someone looking for a non-DS DAC. Cheers




What do you mean by non-DS?


----------



## mwhals

thatguyuphigh said:


> What do you mean by non-DS?




Multibit DAC instead of Delta Sigma DAC.


----------



## mscott58

mwhals said:


> Multibit DAC instead of Delta Sigma DAC.


 
 Exactly. Thanks for jumping in!


----------



## jarnopp

thatguyuphigh said:


> Even compared to the gumby? I'm looking for a new dac and I have heard the gumby which sounds amazing but not the mojo. Any thoughts on this from others who have tried either or both?




I've been using the Mojo with the LC, primarily with the HiFiMan HE-6. I pretty much believe the Mojo can drive near anything, almost even the HE-6, but do get an extra oomph when using the LC. I'm guessing it's a bit more than just synergy or euphoric dostortion. But I have tried the HE-6 with powerful speaker amps and fully believe the LC is plenty of power, regardless of how you like the synergy. The nice thing about using the Mojo is the way you can vary the output voltage (input to the LC). Line out is a good place to start (3v), and with HE-6 I had been using the LC with high gain, but only getting the vol know to about 9-10 o'clock. Then I tried lower Mojo (4 clicks down, or more) and you can get more LC sound sig. Lately, though, I've been running 1x gain and turning up the Mojo a few clicks, to what I think is just under 4v. The LC should be able to do this without clipping. I am finding this the best trade off between the clean Mojo sound and the LC sig. still, with a Mojo at line out plus 3 clicks, and LC on 1x gain, I am back to about 9-10 with rock/pop, higher with classical and more dynamic music. 

TL;DR: Mojo is great for LC and offers a lot of potential for tuning, as well as being great on the go!


----------



## phonyx

That sounds like a very nice and very compact combo! Can you power the Mojo with an external power supply so that it works well for home use? Anything fiddly about using it at home?


----------



## fiascogarcia

My current transportable setup.


----------



## BenHolmes

Just received my LC today!! Woow!

Love the style and the lights. Weighted very nicely and glad it came with a good power cord.

Unfortunately I couldn't test it with my LCD-XCs as they are off having their drivers replaced to the 2016 versions. But I had a great listen using my UERR ciems, running from my QA360 DAP into the LC. So, SE all the way for now.

The QA360 is a very natural sounding DAP, and my UERRs are also known for their superb resolution and reference quality signature; this is my reference for a very natural, balanced sound. When I add the LC to that rig, the sound comes out quite a margin warmer. Normally this fact would really annoy me, but the LC really makes up for it in resolution, richness and weight. It's punchy and super fun - I love it!!! Compared to the sound straight out of the QA360, the LC sounds richer, wider, and gives the notes a little more fullness and boldness, though adds some warmth. Overall I would prefer to listen out of the LC though, which is weird because I am very sensitive to overly warm signatures. I think it's just because the music really does come even more alive with the LC.

Still, it's had 0 hours burn in and I'm using totally unbalanced, amp to amp signal at this stage so I know there should be still a big surprise in quality coming my way when my setup goes fully balanced.

Thanks to all out there who recommended this amp. Tell me, what should this supposed 150hr burn in (that is suggested in the owners manual) do to the sound? I've got it running right now, and will do for the next week.


----------



## sheldaze

benholmes said:


> Still, it's had 0 hours burn in and I'm using totally unbalanced, amp to amp signal at this stage so I know there should be still a big surprise in quality coming my way when my setup goes fully balanced.
> 
> Thanks to all out there who recommended this amp. Tell me, what should this supposed 150hr burn in (that is suggested in the owners manual) do to the sound? I've got it running right now, and will do for the next week.


 
 Only for the 150 hours burn in, make sure you do so with either balanced headphones (plugged in) or no headphones. As you mentioned, it is a balanced architecture. If you plug in an unbalanced headphone, during the burn in process, you will not be burning in all the internal, balanced parts. Source can be anything - balanced or unbalanced.
  
 That said, I found the sound to be wonderful from hour 0 of the burn in process. It only gets better from there. But what you describe, resolution, richness, and weight, just becomes ever more addictive through the burn in. You are in for a long term treat!


----------



## BenHolmes

Yep I have all those settings set for burn in. No headphones connected. Cheers! 

Glad to hear you say it's gets better, but even if it was this good I would be happy....

Now just to buy the right DAC for it....! I would love to get a mojo but just can't stand the thought of not having a balanced source. And I'm using optical in, so unfortunately the stoner acoustics EGD won't work for me - though it's checking all the other boxes.


----------



## jarnopp

benholmes said:


> Yep I have all those settings set for burn in. No headphones connected. Cheers!
> 
> Glad to hear you say it's gets better, but even if it was this good I would be happy....
> 
> Now just to buy the right DAC for it....! I would love to get a mojo but just can't stand the thought of not having a balanced source. And I'm using optical in, so unfortunately the stoner acoustics EGD won't work for me - though it's checking all the other boxes.




Lots of happy Mojo/LC users here. The variable line out, if you will, from Mojo works great with the LC, has optical in, and the LC phase splitter really is amazing. You can search to find people who have compared both inputs iusing DACs with both single ended and balanced outputs. Portability is an added bonus!


----------



## Stillhart

benholmes said:


> Yep I have all those settings set for burn in. No headphones connected. Cheers!
> 
> Glad to hear you say it's gets better, but even if it was this good I would be happy....
> 
> Now just to buy the right DAC for it....! I would love to get a mojo but just can't stand the thought of not having a balanced source. And I'm using optical in, so unfortunately the stoner acoustics EGD won't work for me - though it's checking all the other boxes.


 
  
 I've tested the LC with several balanced DAC's using both the balanced and SE plugged into the LC.  When I pressed the input switch on the front, I could easily hear that there's no difference on most DAC's.  This is because of the phase splitter circuit in the LC that splits the SE signal before amplifying so you're getting balanced amplification even with a SE source.

 While there's nothing wrong with wanting a balanced DAC, especially for future proofing, I don't think you need to worry about SE sources not letting you get the full potential from the amp.


----------



## kencheungkk

Sorry for breaking in, I am new here and I would like to get some comment on Liquid Carbon v2.0.
  
 I owned some IEMs and a HD700 and I would like to have a try on balanced with my HD700.  I also owned Chord Mojo as my primary DAC, Schiit Vahalla 2 for my headphones.  I was interested on Liquid Carbon and I lived outside US but I don't want to miss the 2nd (final) batch of this product, thus, I want to know more its sound impression before placing the order.
  
 1.  Would it be nice to use Mojo with LC against Mojo with Vahalla 2? Any upgrade on LC from Vahalla 2 on sound quality?
 2.  Any good recommendation on HD700 balanced cable?
 3.  A good power cable is essential for LC?
 4.  Any good DAC apart from Mojo for LC?
 5.  Schiit Jotunheim is a better choice? (similar sound quality, 5 year warranty, DAC add-on, pre-amp, cheaper ...etc?)
  
 Sorry for so many question, as I was outside US and LC increased on price, thus, I hope LC is the good (or best) one with the price range for my upgrade.
  
 Thanks!
  
 Ken


----------



## chowmein83

kencheungkk said:


> Sorry for breaking in, I am new here and I would like to get some comment on Liquid Carbon v2.0.
> 
> I owned some IEMs and a HD700 and I would like to have a try on balanced with my HD700.  I also owned Chord Mojo as my primary DAC, Schiit Vahalla 2 for my headphones.  I was interested on Liquid Carbon and I lived outside US but I don't want to miss the 2nd (final) batch of this product, thus, I want to know more its sound impression before placing the order.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Ken,
  
 I own the LC and I tried the Jotunheim before returning it. So at least IMO the Carbon edges out the Jotunheim.
  
 I'll post my full comparison between the two below, but for a short summary: Jotunheim has a brighter tone, LC has a warmer tone. Jotunheim is rather forward with the details while LC isn't as much but is actually no less detailed. Technically, the two are mostly similar to each other, except I feel that the LC has better layering (easier to tell whether sounds in the music are closer or further away from you) while in the Jotunheim everything sounds a bit squished together depth-wise. The Jotunheim is the better value, but the LC may be more tonally to your taste and to me is the better overall performer.
  
 Since you are pairing the amp with the HD700, I think the LC might be a better match since it's slightly warmer nature may tame some of the somewhat troublesome treble of the HD700 (again, this really depends on your preferences).
  
 And here are my full impressions below:
  
_"__First off, I have owned both the LC and the Jot. I have extensively compared them on my own headphones and other audio gear (see my profile for more details). And of course, I volume-matched the amps when I did my comparisons._
  
_I have to say I disagree with @Clemmaster here - except for the Jot being bright at times part. The Jot can be sometimes bright, but I consider it to be just slightly brighter than neutral. The LC, on the other hand, is what I would consider to be slightly warmer than neutral. Maybe to some people this difference is quite big, but personally I don't think this to be the case - the tonality of both of these amps to me is a lot more similar than you might think._
  
_As for the more punch part - nope, I honestly cannot hear a difference between the LC and the Jot. Both are equally punchy, and most importantly they're both the good type of punchy, where it's not exaggerated but highly satisfying._
  
_As for the more details part - again, I don't find this to be the case either. The Jot at first listen might seem more detailed because of its somewhat brighter and more forward nature. However, I found that whenever I noticed something on the Jot, I would go back to the Cavalli and find that same detail there with the same amount of clarity._
  
_So why did I say that the Jot and the LC seem to present the same amount of detail, even though my sentence above suggests that it may be harder to find the details in the LC? This is simply because of the presentation. Jot is quite upfront and so all of the details are immediately noticeable whether you want to notice them or not. With the Cavalli, the details are all still there but the amp isn't as forward with those details as with the Jot. So with the LC you can choose to tune out on the details, but with a tiny bit of effort you could easily find those details if you wanted to._
  
_There is one thing that I find the LC to be superior in - the soundstage. First off, I don't really think that the soundstage size of the Jot and the LC are really that different - soundstage width and depth between the two amps are about the same to me. I also feel that the imaging abilities of the two amps are similar to each other. However, I do feel that the soundstage of the Cavalli is definitely more 3D - as in, you are more easily discern what is further and closer to you in the music, something that I usually call "layering." In comparison, the Jot squishes together what is closer and further to you, making it harder to distinguish exactly how far different parts of the song are from you._
  
_Overall, though, I still think that the Jot is a better value simply because while it mostly matches the LC's performance, it's cheaper than even the first run LC by a good margin, and the fact it's not a limited-run product and you can readily buy it. However, I will admit that I kept the LC and return the Jot for two main reasons - 1.) I really like my soundstage technical abilities, which I found the LC to be better at and 2.) I like the appeal of the LC as a limited-run amp that may not be produced ever again in the future. The second reason is really an irrational reason, but hey why not?_
  
_If I have more time, I would like to write a more detailed comparison between the Jot and the LC, but hope this short comparison helps anybody who wants to know how the two amps stack up against each other!"_


----------



## zaintachik

kencheungkk said:


> Sorry for breaking in, I am new here and I would like to get some comment on Liquid Carbon v2.0.
> 
> I owned some IEMs and a HD700 and I would like to have a try on balanced with my HD700.  I also owned Chord Mojo as my primary DAC, Schiit Vahalla 2 for my headphones.  I was interested on Liquid Carbon and I lived outside US but I don't want to miss the 2nd (final) batch of this product, thus, I want to know more its sound impression before placing the order.
> 
> ...


 
 Ive got HD 700 and and the LC, they are beautiful pairing. Ive had the opportunity to demo the Jotunheim with Ether C, In that pairing Ether was the standout i wasnt floored by the jotunheim.
  
 I agree with Chowmein 83, Jotunheim is very analytical and bright and pairing with HD700 it will be too much.


----------



## taetertot

Question for LC owners:
  
 I just got mine and the volume knob is a bit wonky. It starts out turning smoothly, and then at about 11 o clock there's a lot of resistance, like the knob is off-center and starting to grind against something. I just want to confirm that this is a manufacturing defect and is not designed this way. (Which it could be I guess... make the knob slow down as volume goes up? Seems unlikely tho.) At this price I'm not sure I'm willing to overlook things like this.


----------



## mscott58

taetertot said:


> Question for LC owners:
> 
> I just got mine and the volume knob is a bit wonky. It starts out turning smoothly, and then at about 11 o clock there's a lot of resistance, like the knob is off-center and starting to grind against something. I just want to confirm that this is a manufacturing defect and is not designed this way. (Which it could be I guess... make the knob slow down as volume goes up? Seems unlikely tho.) At this price I'm not sure I'm willing to overlook things like this.


 
 Doesn't sound good. Is this is a new or used unit? Series 1 or 2? Cheers


----------



## fiascogarcia

taetertot said:


> Question for LC owners:
> 
> I just got mine and the volume knob is a bit wonky. It starts out turning smoothly, and then at about 11 o clock there's a lot of resistance, like the knob is off-center and starting to grind against something. I just want to confirm that this is a manufacturing defect and is not designed this way. (Which it could be I guess... make the knob slow down as volume goes up? Seems unlikely tho.) At this price I'm not sure I'm willing to overlook things like this.


 
 Volume control definitely not installed properly.  Not sure if there is a tightening screw on the new LC knobs, but it might just be that the knob was not put on straight.


----------



## taetertot

mscott58 said:


> Doesn't sound good. Is this is a new or used unit? Series 1 or 2? Cheers


 
  
  
 Brand new 2.0, $799. Yeah, not happy. I understand this is their cheap offering but for $800 I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a volume knob that doesn't grind. Still waiting to hear back from Cavalli.


----------



## mwhals

taetertot said:


> Brand new 2.0, $799. Yeah, not happy. I understand this is their cheap offering but for $800 I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a volume knob that doesn't grind. Still waiting to hear back from Cavalli.




I am sure Cavalli will take care of you.


----------



## mscott58

mwhals said:


> I am sure Cavalli will take care of you.




Agree 100%


----------



## indrakula

Hi,
  
 Just received my LC V2, pls. send me the link for pelican case for my LC.
  
 Thanks


----------



## taetertot

mwhals said:


> I am sure Cavalli will take care of you.


 
  
  
 Yup they already are. I sent them the email late yesterday, reply was in my box when I woke up, with link to Fed Ex label to send it back. Very nice.


----------



## mandrake50

taetertot said:


> mwhals said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure Cavalli will take care of you.
> ...


 
  
 Yes. That is one of the beauties of having a Cavalli product. No nonsense, no BS support.


----------



## doraymon

Did any of you try the LC with the Beyerdynamic T5p 2nd generation?


----------



## mwhals

doraymon said:


> Did any of you try the LC with the Beyerdynamic T5p 2nd generation?




I just did a search for T5P on this thread and the result was 47 pages of post containing T5P. Search is your friend.


----------



## zachtom

mikemercer can you enlighten me on the diff between first run and second run LC? Or if you have written it elsewhere, let me know as well. Cheers!


----------



## doctorjazz

Same question... I was under the impression that the 2nd was the same as the first, except better on the single ended side, no? (have the first, just curious...).


----------



## harpo1

doctorjazz said:


> Same question... I was under the impression that the 2nd was the same as the first, except better on the single ended side, no? (have the first, just curious...).


 
 Different power supply and they provide you with a high end power cord.


----------



## thatguyuphigh

New power supply only changes the noise on the SE output, Balanced will be just as low as 1.0. I bought the LC 1.0 and Balanced is great, and SE noise isn't there when going SE in --> SE out. Those are just my experiences though. Im sure if there are any problems with your amp you can send it into Cavalli.


----------



## tvnosaint

After having the LC for a year I decided to try the se. I plugged in my old q701s. It's plenty of power for them. I'd add that it gives them a more relaxed tone than I've heard on them . Very nice. It does nothing to fill in the lower mids though.


----------



## kencheungkk

Thank you chowmein83, zaintachik
  
 I just placed the order for LC V2 (799 USD + shipping).  
  
 I missed V1 lifetime warranty, missed V2 early bird power cable, software and T-shirt.... etc.  Felt a bit pricey for me and I hope the sound quality can complement those missing. (or Cavalli offer the final batch with lifetime warranty too, Ha Ha....)
  
 I am still searching a XLR cable for my HD700, any recommendation?
  
 Thanks!
  
 Ken.


----------



## maheeinfy

kencheungkk said:


> Thank you chowmein83, zaintachik
> 
> I just placed the order for LC V2 (799 USD + shipping).
> 
> ...


 
 Look up Impactaudiocables on Etsy


----------



## mwhals

Seems like a good amp, but we now get less for the money, which is why I am going elsewhere. It won't matter to Cavalli since they will sell out their stock anyway.


----------



## PLUSSOUND

kencheungkk said:


> I am still searching a XLR cable for my HD700, any recommendation?


 
 We build cables for HD700 in any termination. Feel free to drop us a line with your specs for options.


----------



## Stillhart

doctorjazz said:


> Same question... I was under the impression that the 2nd was the same as the first, except better on the single ended side, no? (have the first, just curious...).


 
  
 I have both on hand and the only difference to my ears is in the SE side.  The lower noise floor gives it a cleaner, more expansive sound.  I volume matched them both and used the 1/8" jack as a passthrough so I could have the same source playing to both.  I moved the headphones around and it was pretty easy to hear whether there were differences or not.
  
 Since I listen mainly balanced, I've just been using my old v1.
  


mwhals said:


> Seems like a good amp, but we now get less for the money, which is why I am going elsewhere. It won't matter to Cavalli since they will sell out their stock anyway.


 
  
 I'll be impressed if you manage to find another manufacturer that didn't at one time have a special but doesn't now.


----------



## mwhals

stillhart said:


> I'll be impressed if you manage to find another manufacturer that didn't at one time have a special but doesn't now.




True, but no cord is really bad in my opinion. I am sure it sounds awesome, but so do others. I have nothing against Cavalli as I feel they are an awesome company. I just missed the right timing. I may still get one, but I am still evaluating options and don't need the amp to be portable.


----------



## Stillhart

mwhals said:


> True, but no cord is really bad in my opinion. I am sure it sounds awesome, but so do others. I have nothing against Cavalli.


 
  
 Sure, fair enough.  We all have our illogical pet peeves.  Sometimes when the choice seems like 6 on one side vs half a dozen on the other, you have to decide based on silly things.  I get it.  
  
 I'd suggest giving a listen to some of your choices before deciding, if possible.  You may find that similarities on paper translate to bigger differences in practice.  I've heard plenty of amps that I like better than the Carbon, just not in its price range.  YMMV, etc.  Good luck with your search either way.


----------



## thatonenoob

kencheungkk said:


> Thank you chowmein83, zaintachik
> 
> I just placed the order for LC V2 (799 USD + shipping).
> 
> ...


 
 My LC Gen1 Does have hiss when balanced to -> SE, but apart from that, absolutely no complaints.  Tossed a Bimby on and it has just been a blast.


----------



## maximal112

Hi guys
  
 Quick question, looking at buying a 2nd hand LC V2, any way to tell from the photo's if it is in fact gen 1 or 2?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

maximal112 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Quick question, looking at buying a 2nd hand LC V2, any way to tell from the photo's if it is in fact gen 1 or 2?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Serial Number.  If it's over SN#0500 it should be a gen 2.

 Oh and the graphic around the volume knob and above the RSA port are slightly different.

  
 Gen 1 bottom, Gen 2 top.


----------



## maximal112

ah awesome, thank you very much. Couldn't see serial number but graphics on the front are the same as gen 2 pictured in your post


----------



## newjetplanes

Hey guys,
  
 I was toying with the idea of grabbing a LC v2. My only hesitation is a lack of any sort of line-outs for speakers since I run powered monitors in my desktop setup as well. Anyone have any suggestions for solutions to this issue / have a setup they've found works particularly well?


----------



## jarnopp

newjetplanes said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I was toying with the idea of grabbing a LC v2. My only hesitation is a lack of any sort of line-outs for speakers since I run powered monitors in my desktop setup as well. Anyone have any suggestions for solutions to this issue / have a setup they've found works particularly well?




I would think you would want to run your dac straight into your powered monitors, not dac->LC->powered monitors, as that would add distortion and potentially too much voltage. Maybe you could run a splitter from your dac to both the LC and the monitors if your DAC does not have two outputs, ten just power on the device you need (LC or speakers).


----------



## newjetplanes

jarnopp said:


> I would think you would want to run your dac straight into your powered monitors, not dac->LC->powered monitors, as that would add distortion and potentially too much voltage. Maybe you could run a splitter from your dac to both the LC and the monitors if your DAC does not have two outputs, ten just power on the device you need (LC or speakers).


 

 Well, I'm currently running a Bifrost w/ an Asgard 2, and the Asgard has pre-outs that allow me to control the volume directly for my monitors. I think it's awfully handy in a desktop environment and seems to be the only downside to upgrading to a LC. There's only one RCA-output on the DAC, so a splitter would be a potential option, but I always am wary that RCA splitters might degrade the signal in someway.


----------



## Stillhart

newjetplanes said:


> Well, I'm currently running a Bifrost w/ an Asgard 2, and the Asgard has pre-outs that allow me to control the volume directly for my monitors. I think it's awfully handy in a desktop environment and seems to be the only downside to upgrading to a LC. There's only one RCA-output on the DAC, so a splitter would be a potential option, but I always am wary that RCA splitters might degrade the signal in someway.


 
  
 Grab a Schiit SYS for $50.  I bought one for exactly this reason (swapping between headphones and speakers) and it works great for that.  It's been a very handy tool and I'm thinking of grabbing a Schiit Saga just for a beefed up version.


----------



## stjj89

stillhart said:


> Grab a Schiit SYS for $50.  I bought one for exactly this reason (swapping between headphones and speakers) and it works great for that.  It's been a very handy tool and I'm thinking of grabbing a Schiit Saga just for a beefed up version.


 
  
 Are you using it in reverse, i.e. to connect one source (DAC) to two outputs (speakers and headphone amp)? If so, how do you have it set up?


----------



## Stillhart

stjj89 said:


> Are you using it in reverse, i.e. to connect one source (DAC) to two outputs (speakers and headphone amp)? If so, how do you have it set up?


 
  
 I've used it in both directions.  It's passive so as long as the volume is maxed, you can use it backwards just fine (confirmed with Jason before I tried it though!).  Sometimes I use it when I'm testing amps so I can quickly A/B (one DAC, two amps).  Sometimes I use it when I'm testing DAC's if my amp doesn't have multiple inputs (two DAC's, one amp).
  
 These days my amp (the LC!) has multiple inputs and a passthrough so I can do either test without the SYS.  But I still use it when I need a third input.  Seriously versatile device!


----------



## newjetplanes

stillhart said:


> I've used it in both directions.  It's passive so as long as the volume is maxed, you can use it backwards just fine (confirmed with Jason before I tried it though!).  Sometimes I use it when I'm testing amps so I can quickly A/B (one DAC, two amps).  Sometimes I use it when I'm testing DAC's if my amp doesn't have multiple inputs (two DAC's, one amp).
> 
> These days my amp (the LC!) has multiple inputs and a passthrough so I can do either test without the SYS.  But I still use it when I need a third input.  Seriously versatile device!


 
  
 Thanks for the tip, exactly the type of functionality I was looking and hoping for. Didn't know the SYS worked backwards - just another reason to be a Schiit fan I guess.


----------



## DC5Zilla

just FYI but I'm selling my 1st gen carbon if anyone is interested 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/831245/cavalli-liquid-carbon-1st-gen


----------



## doraymon

stillhart said:


> I've used it in both directions.  It's passive so as long as the volume is maxed, you can use it backwards just fine (confirmed with Jason before I tried it though!).  Sometimes I use it when I'm testing amps so I can quickly A/B (one DAC, two amps).  Sometimes I use it when I'm testing DAC's if my amp doesn't have multiple inputs (two DAC's, one amp).
> 
> These days my amp (the LC!) has multiple inputs and a passthrough so I can do either test without the SYS.  But I still use it when I need a third input.  Seriously versatile device!




On a similar note, as the LC has two SE inputs (RCA, 3.5mm) what happens if I connect two DACs at the same time?
I wanted to A/B test my Hugo and Mojo with the LC 2.


----------



## Stillhart

doraymon said:


> On a similar note, as the LC has two SE inputs (RCA, 3.5mm) what happens if I connect two DACs at the same time?
> I wanted to A/B test my Hugo and Mojo with the LC 2.


 
  
 As long as they're not both playing at the same time, you should be fine.  I've had weird thing happen with both plugged in, though, that sometimes requires me to unplug one.  Most common is distortion and bass clipping.


----------



## doraymon

stillhart said:


> As long as they're not both playing at the same time, you should be fine.  I've had weird thing happen with both plugged in, though, that sometimes requires me to unplug one.  Most common is distortion and bass clipping.



In this case better to unplug each time when swapping DAC
Thanks a lot!


----------



## felix3650

doraymon said:


> In this case better to unplug each time when swapping DAC
> Thanks a lot!


 

 Let us know how both DACs compare on the LC 2. I have the Mojo with me and a LC 2 at home but I'm curious with the Hugo


----------



## Mentis

Hello I just got LC using my Alpha Primes. Can anyone tell me if it's a big difference between balanced and 1/4 se? I looking for balanced Dum cable but the seller just decided to sell to someone else cuz I didn't pay on time... I hope I'm not missing much...


----------



## sahmen

mentis said:


> Hello I just got LC using my Alpha Primes. Can anyone tell me if it's a big difference between balanced and 1/4 se? I looking for balanced Dum cable but the seller just decided to sell to someone else cuz I didn't pay on time... I hope I'm not missing much...


 
 The balanced output on the LC provides significantly better performance than the SE output.


----------



## swspiers

mentis said:


> Hello I just got LC using my Alpha Primes. Can anyone tell me if it's a big difference between balanced and 1/4 se? I looking for balanced Dum cable but the seller just decided to sell to someone else cuz I didn't pay on time... I hope I'm not missing much...




 It's a really big difference. Not the least of which is twice as much power coming out of the balanced output vs. the single ended.

The Primes sound great single ended, but the balance out definitely makes a difference.


----------



## bearFNF

mentis said:


> Hello I just got LC using my Alpha Primes. Can anyone tell me if it's a big difference between balanced and 1/4 se? I looking for balanced Dum cable but the seller just decided to sell to someone else cuz I didn't pay on time... I hope I'm not missing much...


Just 75% of the power is all... 
you are missing that is...


----------



## Mentis

=( seller ruined my day...


----------



## tvnosaint

Many chances to come. Get your money together. It's a fun amp


----------



## mscott58

tvnosaint said:


> Many chances to come. Get your money together. It's a fun amp


 
 True. Just sold mine the other day to another HF friend. These will be passed on for generations... (okay, maybe not that long, but for a good while!!!). Cheers


----------



## Mentis

Thanks guys, yep I will patiently wait for the next seller to show up. In the meantime, I'll use the money to give out red pockets to the kids... It's Chinese new year coming up afterall...


----------



## kellte2

mentis said:


> Thanks guys, yep I will patiently wait for the next seller to show up. In the meantime, I'll use the money to give out red pockets to the kids... It's Chinese new year coming up afterall...




The sale fell through? I was about to put in an offer on that thread before I saw your pm post. Price was almost too good to be true.


----------



## Mentis

Yeh was all excited at work couldn't wait to pay once I'm off work. But he said he waited too long and I had 4 hours to pay him. I told him deal and thought the deal went through... Apparently not... He refunded me the money but I absorbed the fees for the transaction...


----------



## Stillhart

mentis said:


> Yeh was all excited at work couldn't wait to pay once I'm off work. But he said he waited too long and I had 4 hours to pay him. I told him deal and thought the deal went through... Apparently not... He refunded me the money but I absorbed the fees for the transaction...


 
  
 4 hours seems a bit unreasonable.  Especially if you're getting dinged for the fees.  Bummer.
  
 On the plus side, once you have the cable, you'll forget about the cost when you're drowning in sweet tunes.  :-D


----------



## Mentis

Yep until that day comes lol


----------



## bettyn

Am thinking about buying an Emotiva Stealth to use with my LC to get balanced sound. I currently use it with Mojo and it sounds just great. Use Sennheiser HD 800 or Nighthawks with them.Will it make enough difference in quality to buy the very affordable Stealth and $200-300 for my headphones' cables?


----------



## Stillhart

IMHO, no.  You're already getting "balanced sound" thanks to the phase splitter in the LC.  The only difference with the Stealth would be a different DAC implementation that you may or may not like more than the Mojo.  IMHO the Mojo is the best DAC you can get for the price so the Stealth would be a step down at worst, a side-grade at best.  That's a lot of money to spend on a side-grade.


----------



## bettyn

stillhart said:


> IMHO, no.  You're already getting "balanced sound" thanks to the phase splitter in the LC.  The only difference with the Stealth would be a different DAC implementation that you may or may not like more than the Mojo.  IMHO the Mojo is the best DAC you can get for the price so the Stealth would be a step down at worst, a side-grade at best.  That's a lot of money to spend on a side-grade.




Thank you very much. I think you just saved me some money!


----------



## GLowaslike

In the cavalli audio home page, what is the cable hooked to the liquid carbon? Does anybody know what brand?


----------



## Mediahound

glowaslike said:


> In the cavalli audio home page, what is the cable hooked to the liquid carbon? Does anybody know what brand?


 

 Probably Kimber.


----------



## Stillhart

glowaslike said:


> In the cavalli audio home page, what is the cable hooked to the liquid carbon? Does anybody know what brand?


 
@Hansotek will know.


----------



## GLowaslike

stillhart said:


> @Hansotek
> will know.




@hansotek verdict?


----------



## Hansotek

glowaslike said:


> @hansotek verdict?




It's a DIY cable. It's 8-strands of DHC macromolecule.


----------



## doraymon

glowaslike said:


> In the cavalli audio home page, what is the cable hooked to the liquid carbon? Does anybody know what brand?



It looks like a Kimber Axios


----------



## Hansotek

glowaslike said:


> @hansotek verdict?




Here was the original classified w/ all the info on the cable:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/763262/fs-diy-dhc-nucleotide-macromolecule-8-wire-for-hd800-7-feet-4-pin-xlr-carbon-y-split-plug-price-drop-for-quick-sale-today-or-tomorrow


----------



## GLowaslike

Thank you!!!!


----------



## kellte2

Recently bought a LCv2.  Loving the sound with my Ether C Flows, but as this is my first balanced out amp, I have a question about the 4-pin XLR socket on the LC.  Pardon my ignorance, if this is a basic concept.

I previously used a 4-pin to 1/4" adapter with my old amp, and that adapter had a locking mechanism on the top with a trigger to release the cable from the adapter.  The LC has a socket, but there is very little in the way of a lock or click when plugging in the XLR connection into the amp.   Almost as if the plug connects and then can be pushed in a little further. Unplugging is similar. I assume this is normal, as a locking connection could easily drag your amp off the table/desk if you were to stumble over your cable.  However, I did notice a pin above the socket inside the LC, so I was wondering if there should be a more pronounced click/lock feeling when inserting the cable.

is his normal behavior for the 4-pin XLR socket on the LC?


----------



## Stillhart

There are locking connectors and non-locking connectors.  This is one of the non-locking kinds, which is pretty standard for the headphone connection in my experience.  The level of tactile feedback you get when it settles into place tends to be dependent on the connector being used.  The Neutrik ones on the DUM cable (and many other cables) don't click but do sort of "click" into place....if you catch my meaning.


----------



## GLowaslike

Placed an order last night for the LC. Any thought on the pairing the LC with Mojo and LCD X?


----------



## iAudio365

I'm so tempted to get one of these. Do they still have the imbalance issues? I keep hearing about on the 2.0 version?


----------



## sheldaze

iaudio365 said:


> I'm so tempted to get one of these. Do they still have the imbalance issues? I keep hearing about on the 2.0 version?


 
  
 I know of no imbalance issue. 2.0 version simply has a quieter power supply, to help when connecting IEM to the single-ended output.


----------



## tvnosaint

No imbalance on mine. I've got the 1st run. It's a fun sounding amp. To try the single ended part out I hooked up my old q701s. They get virtually no play with all the planars I have around. The LC is the best pairing with them I have heard to date.


----------



## fauxdiophile

have been using the amp for a few weeks now, finally got a balanced cable to use with the ethers. all i can say at this point is "wow." the combo is what it's cracked up to be


----------



## jarnopp

glowaslike said:


> Placed an order last night for the LC. Any thought on the pairing the LC with Mojo and LCD X?




I think it would sound great. Mojo is great on its own with most headphones, but LC sounds fantastic powered by Mojo and driving ZMF Vibros or HiFiMan HE-6. If you want more power, or just like the sound of the LC, Mojo is a great DAC to pair with it.

Edit: use balanced! The phase splitter works wonders from Mojo output.


----------



## iAudio365

jarnopp said:


> I think it would sound great. Mojo is great on its own with most headphones, but LC sounds fantastic powered by Mojo and driving ZMF Vibros or HiFiMan HE-6. If you want more power, or just like the sound of the LC, Mojo is a great DAC to pair with it.
> 
> Edit: use balanced! The phase splitter works wonders from Mojo output.




I just got my mojo today, let it charge all day and have now set it up on my pc where it will stay most of the time.

All I can say is jesus it sounds unreal. I am now wondering if I even bother buying a liquid carbon, I have been so close, so many times, even on the paypal pay now page and only had to hit "pay" but have backed out like 3 times now.

My ether c 1.1's are currently getting up graded to the Flow open variant, and I have pre ordered the new AEON's from Mr Speakers as well.

But if that little mojo can push my fostex trp50 mk3s to the limit which are notoriously hard headphones to drive I'm just not sure I even need the cavalli LC anymore.

Keep in mind my previous set up was a Schiit Uber stack but it sounded nothing like this, not even close. So maybe thats why I'm content as I don't know what I would be missing by not adding the cavalli LC. Lol

Man I hate decissions haha


----------



## hfi429366999

Hello,
  
 From the time i place my order for LIQUID CARBON 2.0 (i see that it's in final production run) in Cavalli Audio's web site, to the time they ship, is that typically in current run rate ~6 months lead time before i receive my unit?
  
  
 Sorry for the double post.


----------



## GLowaslike

hfi429366999 said:


> Hello,
> 
> From the time i place my order for LIQUID CARBON 2.0 (i see that it's in final production run) in Cavalli Audio's web site, to the time they ship, is that typically in current run rate ~6 months lead time before i receive my unit?
> 
> ...




Got mines in about 3 weeks


----------



## fauxdiophile

glowaslike said:


> Got mines in about 3 weeks


 
 are these shipping with any extras these days?


----------



## fauxdiophile

does anyone have experience using the LC w/ Shure SE846?


----------



## Pharmaboy

tvnosaint said:


> No imbalance on mine. I've got the 1st run. It's a fun sounding amp. To try the single ended part out I hooked up my old q701s. They get virtually no play with all the planars I have around. The LC is the best pairing with them I have heard to date.


 
  
 (just seeing this post)
  
 Do your planars happen to include a ZMF Omni/Ori? How do they sound w/the LC?
  
 I'm very interested in the LC based on things a few reviewers said about the LC being good for planars. But IMO it's a little different when a regular headphone user who isn't a reviewer chimes in w/his impressions.
  
 I'm torn between a new LC and a used Yulong A18 (both for their balanced output--getting a balanced cable for Ori soon).


----------



## Odin412

pharmaboy said:


> Do your planars happen to include a ZMF Omni/Ori? How do they sound w/the LC?
> 
> I'm very interested in the LC based on things a few reviewers said about the LC being good for planars. But IMO it's a little different when a regular headphone user who isn't a reviewer chimes in w/his impressions.
> 
> I'm torn between a new LC and a used Yulong A18 (both for their balanced output--getting a balanced cable for Ori soon).


 
  
 I have the pleasure of owning both a Liquid Carbon and a ZMF Omni and IMHO it's a really good combo. In fact, I have yet to hear a headphone that doesn't sounds good with the LC - it's a really good amp!


----------



## Pharmaboy

odin412 said:


> I have the pleasure of owning both a Liquid Carbon and a ZMF Omni and IMHO it's a really good combo. In fact, I have yet to hear a headphone that doesn't sounds good with the LC - it's a really good amp!


 
  
 Thank you for these comments--very helpful!


----------



## tvnosaint

I have the LC and ori. It does sound very nice but the ori really benefits from more power. I got the cayin iha6 and it really opens up the sound of the ori. The LC has a great tone, better than the cayin to my ears. The cayin has much better detail , better soundstage and the bass control is just sick.


----------



## Pharmaboy

tvnosaint said:


> I have the LC and ori. It does sound very nice but the ori really benefits from more power. I got the cayin iha6 and it really opens up the sound of the ori. The LC has a great tone, better than the cayin to my ears. The cayin has much better detail , better soundstage and the bass control is just sick.


 
  
 Damn...choices!
  
 My fantasy amp for the Ori is the Violectric v281. Even used, it's crazy $$$. I know that it would probably be moon-shot good, based on the great results I get from the (circuit-related) Lake People G109-A.


----------



## tvnosaint

The LC sounds great. For the ori more power is better. For my q701 and vibro nothing sounds better than the LC . Nothing I have that is


----------



## doctorjazz

So, here's a question. I just noted a channel imbalance using the LC v1 balanced. It is more pronounced at low volumes, but I still hear it when I turn the volume up, and have repeated it with 2 headphones (HE-560 and HE-1000 v1). I have recently been using the unbalanced output quite a bit for some headphones I had that I didn't have balanced cables for. When I plug in unbalanced now, the channel imbalance goes away. Someone told me they heard that using the unbalanced for a while can cause this, due to not using half the amp while going unbalanced, and the cure was to do a long "break in" playing music in balanced, which uses both halves of the amp again. I just started running the amp in this way, but was wondering if anyone knew if this was the case.
Thanks.


----------



## bronzboy

doctorjazz said:


> So, here's a question. I just noted a channel imbalance using the LC v1 balanced. It is more pronounced at low volumes, but I still hear it when I turn the volume up, and have repeated it with 2 headphones (HE-560 and HE-1000 v1). I have recently been using the unbalanced output quite a bit for some headphones I had that I didn't have balanced cables for. When I plug in unbalanced now, the channel imbalance goes away. Someone told me they heard that using the unbalanced for a while can cause this, due to not using half the amp while going unbalanced, and the cure was to do a long "break in" playing music in balanced, which uses both halves of the amp again. I just started running the amp in this way, but was wondering if anyone knew if this was the case.
> Thanks.


 

 There is a number of people with V 2.0 reporting balance issues, including myself.   Return your amp to Cavalli and they will fix it.  Cavalli fixed it and sent it back to me and sounds great. 
  
 You're lucky you have a lifetime immunity.


----------



## doctorjazz

I had heard of problems with the unbalanced output (which hasn't given me a problem), but the balanced I thought was generally OK. Have to contact them, thanks. 



bronzboy said:


> doctorjazz said:
> 
> 
> > So, here's a question. I just noted a channel imbalance using the LC v1 balanced. It is more pronounced at low volumes, but I still hear it when I turn the volume up, and have repeated it with 2 headphones (HE-560 and HE-1000 v1). I have recently been using the unbalanced output quite a bit for some headphones I had that I didn't have balanced cables for. When I plug in unbalanced now, the channel imbalance goes away. Someone told me they heard that using the unbalanced for a while can cause this, due to not using half the amp while going unbalanced, and the cure was to do a long "break in" playing music in balanced, which uses both halves of the amp again. I just started running the amp in this way, but was wondering if anyone knew if this was the case.
> ...


----------



## AladdinSane

My LC1 amp experienced channel imbalance and was repaired by Cavalli. Not totally unusual it appears. All is working now. It's sweet sound was missed while away.


----------



## swspiers

I'm happy to report no V1.0 balance issues at all.


----------



## Pharmaboy

aladdinsane said:


> My LC1 amp experienced channel imbalance and was repaired by Cavalli. Not totally unusual it appears. All is working now. It's sweet sound was missed while away.


 
  
 My new LC arrived yesterday, after an incredible pain-in-the-ass sequence w/FedX (not Cavalli's fault).
  
 I haven't even plugged it in yet. Will do that later today, just to verify (using one of my SE headphones) that it works. But the real test will be when my balanced cable comes in for the ZMF Ori. Then I'll burn in the cable & the LC together--then see what this amp really can do.
  
 I plan to use it primarily for balanced listening, based on everything I've read about this unit. Might as well use 100% of this amp, not 75% or whatever comes out SE.
  
 Looking forward to hearing this amp. Have heard so many good things about it...


----------



## musiclvr

I can say that I listen to my LC v2 exclusively balanced out. This has been for fear of causing any kind of perceivable channel imbalance due to burning in half of the amps topology over the other when using single ended out. I will typically use my one of my 4 other portable amps for single ended duty.


----------



## Pharmaboy

musiclvr said:


> I can say that I listen to my LC v2 exclusively balanced out. This has been for fear of causing any kind of perceivable channel imbalance due to burning in half of the amps topology over the other when using single ended out. I will typically use my one of my 4 other portable amps for single ended duty.


 
  
 Exactly what I'm thinking.
  
 I have unusual flexibility in my system. My DAC (Audio GD NOS 19) has 2 RCA output pairs. One goes to a terrific SE headphone amp that also serves as my preamp (Audio GD SA-31SE). It has a balanced connection, but it's only for convenience...the amp is 100% SE.
  
 The other output pair from the DAC goes to whatever other amp I'm playing with at the moment (usually the SE Lake People G109-A). The 2 amps operate totally independently.
  
 Now I'll just replace the G109-A with the LC (usually). My primary headphone now is the Ori, and with a balanced cable, I can plug into either amp. But if I feel like listening to one of the SE headphones (such as Fidelio X2's), it can plug in either of these headphone amps. Or I'll might swap out the LC with the G109-A for SE use.
  
 (life is good!)


----------



## elwappo99

pharmaboy said:


> musiclvr said:
> 
> 
> > I can say that I listen to my LC v2 exclusively balanced out. This has been for fear of causing any kind of perceivable channel imbalance due to burning in half of the amps topology over the other when using single ended out. I will typically use my one of my 4 other portable amps for single ended duty.
> ...







I'm curious what you'll think if the SA31 single ended vs the Carbon balanced.


----------



## Pharmaboy

elwappo99 said:


> I'm curious what you'll think if the SA31 single ended vs the Carbon balanced.


 
  
 I'm really curious about that, too. The SA-31SE has changed the way I view headphone amps. It's SS and extremely powerful (something like 10W@50 ohms). But it's all about finesse...incredibly nuanced sound, tonally & spatially. The Ori through the SA-31SE is fascinating & very good, because the Ori also emphasizes tonal purity, note separation, and soundstage.
  
 But no amp is perfect. The weak spot of the SA-31SE is deep bass--while the bass is tuneful, it doesn't go quite low enough or with sufficient impact. It also falls slightly short in dynamics & "jump factor" across the entire frequency range. The Lake People G109-A betters it in both respects.
  
 From everything I read about the LC (especially w/the Omni/Ori), it is described as a blend of the best things of both 2 HP amps. At least, that's what I'm hoping to hear.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

got mine paired with matrix x-sabre. My hd6xx is alive again!


----------



## Pharmaboy

My Liquid Carbon arrived ~1 month ago, but I wasn't really planning to use it until my balanced cable (Forza Audio Works HCP Noir) arrived. But then a local Head-Fi bud generously loaned me his ZMF balanced cable. That let me burn in the LC balanced, then listen to it & compare to the V281, also in balanced mode.

I am SO impressed with the LC!! This little box is modest/unassuming in appearance; runs fairly hot; and doesn't inspire confidence w/massive construction or multiple bells & whistles, as the V281 does. But man, can that thing drive planar headphones! The sound w/my ZMF Ori is really something special.

What I hear is a somewhat warm amp, top to bottom, but not sacchryine-sweet or "get-in-the-way" warmth, more of a slight sonic flavor. Beyond that, the big surprise is how great the bass is. This little box has real power & authority in the low- and mid-bass registers. Not boosted or V-shaped, real power. If you listen to a symphony orchestra, your head totally feels all those cellos playing _en masse_. I listen to string bass or electric bass in well-recorded jazz, and those instruments are right there, sounding real & like themselves. I never dreamed the LC would so good in the lower registers.

Top to bottom, the sound is slightly warm and rather impactful. The LC has excellent dynamics and "jump factor." It also has really excellent soundstaging, with sounds coming at your ears from all directions (L/R, top/bottom) and a noteworthy sense of depth, spaces around notes, etc. 

The LC has more than enough power for the Ori, a true power-hog planar. I can barely get the volume knob to 11:30 or 12:00 before crying uncle--and that's in the lower gain setting. I can't imagine ever needing the high setting.

I have lots more listening to do on the LC, but so far, it's a home run--also a fascinating contrast to the V281, which is spectacularly good in some of the same sonic characteristics as the LC, but still sounding rather different (and amazing).


----------



## Stillhart

Welcome to the club!  Now you know why some of us are constantly recommending it as a great amp for the price.


----------



## Skyyyeman

Pharmaboy, it would be interesting to hear your comments about a comparison of the LC with the Violectric V281, which is certainly a top flight amp but not one that we see often used in comparisons. Usual LC comparisons are with Schiit and others in that price range.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Skyyyeman said:


> Pharmaboy, it would be interesting to hear your comments about a comparison of the LC with the Violectric V281, which is certainly a top flight amp but not one that we see often used in comparisons. Usual LC comparisons are with Schiit and others in that price range.



Well, life is unscriptedespecially audio life:

Once I got a balanced headphone (ZMF Omni/Ori), I suddenly got interested in balanced amps. To me, the most obvious candidate was the LC. It was affordable, and I'd been in it for awhile based on several positive reviews, including one by @Aornic 

So I looked for several months for a good used LC...no luck.
In the meantime, I was lusting over the V281, not just because it's balanced, but also because it's an endgame HP amp that doubles as a preamp (I really have a thing for amp/preamps...now have 3, down from 4 when I also had the Burson Soloist)
When I realized a used LC wasn't happening, I began searching for a used V281 (& scrutinizing my bank accts & scheming how to pay for it!). But again, no luck on a used one.

6 weeks ago I realized Cavalli still had stock on the 3rd production run of the LC. I pounced & got one of the last ones, if not THE last one.

Literally 1 day after ordering the LC, a Head-Fi'er PM'd me out of the blue, offering his V281 F.S. It had everything I wanted, incl. remote + the 128-step motorized pot (I also have a thing for stepped pots...don't ask). So although it was INSANE to buy this whopper just 1 day after ordering the LC, I bought it.

And for once in my life, I'm on winning streak. Both the LC & V281 are amazingly good, though in somewhat different ways. The LC proved to be an impressive balanced source for the Ori. Not only that, but it aligns so well w/my sonic preferences as to be a little bit spooky (like Dr. Cavalli was reading my mind when he designed it).

And the V281? Well, I won't derail this thread. Let's just say it's like having Superman on your desktop. It can do  _anything_ (there is seemingly no end to its power reserves), and does everything extremely well. It drives the Ori like a government mule.It's also the best amp/pre-amp I've ever used on the desktop (orders of magnitude better than any others). While not being bright or "clinical," it also doesn't sound especially much like the LC (though the V281 has a welcome smidgeon of warmth in its own way).

There are good times. if I count the Ori (which I just love), I'm a real winning streak here.

PS: I have another amp that's more comparable to the LC in price & design aspirations (the Lake People G109-A, a very fine, sounds-good-with-everything amp). But it's not balanced, so comparing it vs LC is kind of unfair...


----------



## Aornic (Apr 30, 2017)

The synergy with the HD800 is pretty necessary out of all the amps I currently own.


----------



## jerico

Just wanted to give a little shout out to Terry at Cavalli for awesome customer service. I had to send a new LC in for repairs and the experience so far has been top notch (though the waiting is killing me!).

Justin


----------



## doctorjazz

How long Have you been waiting, @jerico? I sent my v1 back for a channel imbalance issue that I sent them almost 2 months ago, wondering what to expect.


----------



## jerico

doctorjazz said:


> How long Have you been waiting, @jerico? I sent my v1 back for a channel imbalance issue that I sent them almost 2 months ago, wondering what to expect.



Hi Doc -

Erm, they literally just went out on Thursday - they haven't even arrived back at Cavalli yet. Mine had a channel imbalance issue too (left channel was super loud even at 0 volume, while right was controllable).  It was fine at first, then during a listening session the left side just started getting louder and louder.

Sucks for me - I've got 2 headamps out for repairs (the other is a WA22, and I got the LC as a low-fuss alternate - a plan which hasn't worked out all that well!).


----------



## doctorjazz

Sorry to hear that... I had a similar story, my MicroZOTL2 went bad at the same time, so I decided to send it to Mojo Audio for repair and mods. That came back a few weeks later, still waiting on the LC (but for a while there, didn't have either of my good amps).


----------



## Pharmaboy

For what it's worth, I loaned my LC (which works perfectly) to a good Head-Fi bud whose regular amp is SE. Even though I have another balanced amp that's really wonderful (V281), I'm starting to miss the LC. It has a very distinctive, warm/friendly sound. It's also way more powerful than you'd expect.


----------



## jerico

I didn't have the LC for long before it borked itself, so minimal break in time and all that - but I think it gives my WA22 a run for its money with the LCD3, which is impressive given the price difference.  Can't wait to get it back!


----------



## Skyyyeman

doctorjazz said:


> How long Have you been waiting, @jerico? I sent my v1 back for a channel imbalance issue that I sent them almost 2 months ago, wondering what to expect.



I just spoke with a friend of mine who told me he has had his LC sitting at Cavalli for over 2 months -- approx. 9 weeks.  And it's still there.


----------



## doctorjazz

OK, sounds like nothing is happening in the immediate future. It's been about 6-7 weeks on my end.


----------



## jerico

doctorjazz said:


> OK, sounds like nothing is happening in the immediate future. It's been about 6-7 weeks on my end.



Doc - how long did it last before needing the repair?


----------



## doctorjazz

hard to say... Got it in the first run, but don't use it that much, mostly use my MicroZOTL2. Use it sometimes when I want to go balanced, but my balance problem was on the single ended output, which I just recently noticed.


----------



## jerico

6-7 weeks is a long time either way. Mine was brand new though - I think I was only on my 3rd listening session with it when it went bug eyed.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'm not sure how long it will be... It's about 7 weeks so far, but I don't know when I'll be getting out back, which was why I posted and was curious. Haven't gotten an estimate from Cavalli. Anyone has the experience?


----------



## Skyyyeman

doctorjazz said:


> I'm not sure how long it will be... It's about 7 weeks so far, but I don't know when I'll be getting out back, which was why I posted and was curious. Haven't gotten an estimate from Cavalli. Anyone has the experience?



In response to your question, I just spoke to my friend. He said that after a month he emailed them and they apologized and said they were busy with CanJam and some new LC orders. But then nothing happened so after a few more weeks he contacted them again and they apologized again and said they expected a few more days or a week. That was two or three weeks ago. So he said it's been 9 weeks so far that the LC has been in their possession. He's hoping it'll be this week but doesn't have any updated info. He said he'll let me know if he hears something and I'll pass it on or he can post it directly.

Suggest you email them and see what's happening.


----------



## doctorjazz

Thanks for the post-I've emailed a few times; they've actually never even acknowledged receiving it (I checked my tracking number to be sure they did). I did send emails, and get replies with the same reasons for delay, apologies (but still don't actually know if they know where it is). So, basically, who knows when I'll get it. Oh well.


----------



## caecillius

Mine has been out as well for about 6 weeks so I emailed Terry and he said due to problems with their service department (a contractor it seems) they are bringing things back in house and I should get a shipping notification next week.


----------



## doctorjazz

I heard back as well, supposed to get it back in a week or so.


----------



## Skyyyeman

caecillius said:


> Mine has been out as well for about 6 weeks so I emailed Terry and he said due to problems with their service department (a contractor it seems) they are bringing things back in house and I should get a shipping notification next week.



I just got a message from my friend who said Cavalli just emailed him and told him the same thing.


----------



## jerico

My LC is en route back to me - it was gone for a little over a week (it took a while for it to get to Texas). Quick turnaround.


----------



## doctorjazz

Mine is back, sounding fine.


----------



## superfell

I understand that the single ended output has less power but are there any other downsides to using the SE output? [besides balanced cabling advantages].


----------



## bearFNF

I my experience the balanced is "cleaner" with more sensitive headphones/CIEMs.
Mine is the gen one carbon with improvements, the gen 2 might is better in this respect but still not as clean SE as it is Balanced. YMMV and all that...


----------



## fiascogarcia

superfell said:


> I understand that the single ended output has less power but are there any other downsides to using the SE output? [besides balanced cabling advantages].


First or second gen?  My first gen has the low level hum issue on SE that could be a problem for that gen.  Never really bothered me since I run balanced on it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

superfell said:


> I understand that the single ended output has less power but are there any other downsides to using the SE output? [besides balanced cabling advantages].



I've used SE & balanced out of the LC for several headphones--including hearing a planar (ZMF Ori) through SE out vs balanced out. 

I'm not hearing much difference between outputs, with possible exception of soundstaging: LC has really good soundstaging all outputs, but it's perhaps a litlte bit more spacious/dimensional via balanced out. 

I hear the same small difference through my other balanced amp, the V281.

Some people says balanced out may have slightly reduced bass vs SE, but I don't hear that from the LC (at least, not on the Ori or Fidelio X2's, both of which have quite good bass, Ori being just about the best bass I've ever heard).


----------



## singleended58 (Jul 3, 2017)

If you do not mind please share your suggestions of any balanced cables you have good experienced with. My LC is the first generation.


----------



## Mediahound

singleended58 said:


> If you do not mind please share your suggestions of any balanced cables you have good experienced with. My LC is the first generation.



These are quite good for the price: http://amzn.to/2tadOh6


----------



## Pharmaboy

singleended58 said:


> If you do not mind please share your suggestions of any balanced cables you have good experienced with. My LC is the first generation.



Sure. My balanced cable is by Forza Audio Works. I gave impressions about it on a different thread: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/forza-audioworks-impressions-thread.661441/page-106#post-13477917

(it's post #1577)

Don't want to get in trouble for cross-posting...but also don't want to rewrite everything I said in that post, if I can avoid it.


----------



## musiclvr

superfell said:


> I understand that the single ended output has less power but are there any other downsides to using the SE output? [besides balanced cabling advantages].



I use the SE output sparingly (if at all) due to the likelihood of channel imbalance over time as only one amp is used in SE output. I use other amps for SE output for peace of mind.


----------



## Pharmaboy

musiclvr said:


> I use the SE output sparingly (if at all) due to the likelihood of channel imbalance over time as only one amp is used in SE output. I use other amps for SE output for peace of mind.



Really an excellent point, especially because some users reported channel imbalance, especially in the 1st version.

Another/related point: I burned in the LC for 100+ hrs using balanced output only. The sound did get better in slight but meaningful ways over that time, plus (though I may be kidding myself) I felt like any risk of using SE output might be mitigated after this type of burnin.

Regardless, it's a fine sounding amp.


----------



## crossfire

Curious if Cavalli Audio still services the Carbon? Mine has been acting up lately... some weird channel imbalance whenever I switch from 4pin XLR to SE.


----------



## harpo1

crossfire said:


> Curious if Cavalli Audio still services the Carbon? Mine has been acting up lately... some weird channel imbalance whenever I switch from 4pin XLR to SE.


1st run have a lifetime warranty and the second run hasn't been out a year yet so why wouldn't they?


----------



## crossfire

harpo1 said:


> 1st run have a lifetime warranty and the second run hasn't been out a year yet so why wouldn't they?



Oh man it only been less than a year? Feels like forever. I usually lose track of these things but thanks.


----------



## doctorjazz

crossfire said:


> Curious if Cavalli Audio still services the Carbon? Mine has been acting up lately... some weird channel imbalance whenever I switch from 4pin XLR to SE.



I recently had the same channel imbalance on single ended use, Cavalli serviced it. I do have a v1.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I am kinda curious if anyone have tried a/b audio heron 5 with LC


----------



## You Kay

Hi,

As balanced output is the recommended option, can somebody please recommend a headphone that I can run balanced that is not too expensive. Im running a MacBook Pro to Berkeley alpha USB to Schiit Gumby to liquid carbon. I have a speaker setup for my main listening. This will just be for late night listening. I've considered the DT 990 which I think has to be modded for balanced use. But I've been put off by people's evaluation of a sharp treble. Any suggestions?


----------



## maheeinfy

You Kay said:


> Hi,
> 
> As balanced output is the recommended option, can somebody please recommend a headphone that I can run balanced that is not too expensive. Im running a MacBook Pro to Berkeley alpha USB to Schiit Gumby to liquid carbon. I have a speaker setup for my main listening. This will just be for late night listening. I've considered the DT 990 which I think has to be modded for balanced use. But I've been put off by people's evaluation of a sharp treble. Any suggestions?


HD600, Hifiman HE400i


----------



## Slow_aetk

You Kay said:


> Hi,
> 
> As balanced output is the recommended option, can somebody please recommend a headphone that I can run balanced that is not too expensive. Im running a MacBook Pro to Berkeley alpha USB to Schiit Gumby to liquid carbon. I have a speaker setup for my main listening. This will just be for late night listening. I've considered the DT 990 which I think has to be modded for balanced use. But I've been put off by people's evaluation of a sharp treble. Any suggestions?



HD 600/650 is a common choice. It is easy to unplug the stock cable and replace it by a 4 pins XLR balanced cable. You find some decent china made under $100


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

HD600/HD650


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am kinda curious if anyone have tried a/b audio heron 5 with LC



HD800 pairing with heron 5 is warm with huge soundstage. But, coming from LC, it is pretty decent. Comparing to LC size, the heron 5 is huge and heavy. I am still amazed how Alex Cavalli pack those unbelivable sounds in that small and light box.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I quickly discovered that the Liquid Carbon is an essential audio tool in my desktop system. It sound wonderful (in different way) with every headphone I own. The sound it makes on several has to be called a revelation (for example, it lit up my Fidelio X2s like a big Hollywood spotlight--but best sound I've ever heard from this headphone).

Last week I had the experience of burning in a new E-Mu Teak on my LC. The Teaks sounded a little ragged at first; after 125 hours, they sound distinctly better (they're very interesting headphones)--and through them, I again hear the unmistakable sonic virtues of the LC: top to bottom coherence + an organic quality; slight warmth that doesn't amount to coloration; excellent soundstaging (it will bring out whatever a headphone can do in that area); and the 2nd best bass I've heard from a headphone amp (the best being the V281).

This unobtrusive/unimpressive-looking little box has become totally essential to my "headphone experience." It was only with enormous self-control that I resisted the current Massdrop Cavalli drop (I have too many amps already!).


----------



## maheeinfy

Pharmaboy said:


> I quickly discovered that the Liquid Carbon is an essential audio tool in my desktop system. It sound wonderful (in different way) with every headphone I own. The sound it makes on several has to be called a revelation (for example, it lit up my Fidelio X2s like a big Hollywood spotlight--but best sound I've ever heard from this headphone).
> 
> Last week I had the experience of burning in a new E-Mu Teak on my LC. The Teaks sounded a little ragged at first; after 125 hours, they sound distinctly better (they're very interesting headphones)--and through them, I again hear the unmistakable sonic virtues of the LC: top to bottom coherence + an organic quality; slight warmth that doesn't amount to coloration; excellent soundstaging (it will bring out whatever a headphone can do in that area); and the 2nd best bass I've heard from a headphone amp (the best being the V281).
> 
> This unobtrusive/unimpressive-looking little box has become totally essential to my "headphone experience." It was only with enormous self-control that I resisted the current Massdrop Cavalli drop (I have too many amps already!).


Fidelio X2 run from SE out on LC ?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Yep. I tried this combination almost out of boredom ("let's try this little experiment), but had no expectation it would sound good. After all, pair a somewhat warm, expansive headphone w/a somewhat warm, expansive amp...it should sound like over-sugary oatmeal, right?

Wrong. The sound knocked my socks off. One of the more pleasant audio surprises of recent years. In fact, it got me listening to the X2s far more often, posting about them, even pad rolling on them (all this after the X2s had been shoved into the background by other headphones, at least for a time).


----------



## maheeinfy

Pharmaboy said:


> Yep. I tried this combination almost out of boredom ("let's try this little experiment), but had no expectation it would sound good. After all, pair a somewhat warm, expansive headphone w/a somewhat warm, expansive amp...it should sound like over-sugary oatmeal, right?
> 
> Wrong. The sound knocked my socks off. One of the more pleasant audio surprises of recent years. In fact, it got me listening to the X2s far more often, posting about them, even pad rolling on them (all this after the X2s had been shoved into the background by other headphones, at least for a time).


Interesting. I am gonna try the combo today. Thanks for the find !


----------



## canthearyou

The main difference between Gen 1 and 2 is more power for G2?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

canthearyou said:


> The main difference between Gen 1 and 2 is more power for G2?



Not sure about power but I've read that G2 have a cleaner SE.


----------



## canthearyou

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Not sure about power but I've read that G2 have a cleaner SE.



So if I planned on using only balanced, Gen1 would be fine?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

canthearyou said:


> So if I planned on using only balanced, Gen1 would be fine?



Definitely


----------



## Pharmaboy

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Not sure about power but I've read that G2 have a cleaner SE.



Here is how Cavalli Audio explained the changes in Gen 2 vs Gen 1:

"This final run of Carbons will feature a 2nd generation power supply, which has been designed specifically to reduce noise from the single-ended output.  Of course, we highly suggest that you run your Liquid Carbons with balanced output to get the most out of it, but we’re doing what we can to improve the SE output anyway… for those times when you just don’t have the appropriate balanced cable on-hand.  See, that’s a good surprise right?

Oh BTW, we’re also including rubber feet this time around!  I know, it’s only rubber feet… not exactly a big deal… but since you guys asked for them, we’re including them."​
Comments in this thread imply some users had channel imbalance issues w/Gen 1, possibly related to the phase splitter: this issue was corrected & the power supply improved, in Gen 2.

I have used my Gen 3 (purchased in the 3rd and apparently final production run, ~5 months ago, for both SE & balanced, but mostly balanced. The sound is amazingly good both ways, but subtly better via balanced, in the ways one would expect (slightly more spacious soundstaging; occasionally a slight benefit in bass, very headphone-dependent).


----------



## canthearyou

Thank you for the replies. Looks like I'm better off just paying a bit more for a Gen2


----------



## Pharmaboy

canthearyou said:


> Thank you for the replies. Looks like I'm better off just paying a bit more for a Gen2



I tried to get one used, but at the time I was looking, the only ones F.S. were just a few Gen 1 units. If I'd known the seller(s), maybe I would have approached it differently. 

Beyond that, the prices were nuts: ~$700 + shipping & Paypal. At the time, new Gen 2 units were still being sold, which made the choice easy--get a warranty + brand new for $799 + shipping.


----------



## maheeinfy

Pharmaboy said:


> Here is how Cavalli Audio explained the changes in Gen 2 vs Gen 1:
> 
> "This final run of Carbons will feature a 2nd generation power supply, which has been designed specifically to reduce noise from the single-ended output.  Of course, we highly suggest that you run your Liquid Carbons with balanced output to get the most out of it, but we’re doing what we can to improve the SE output anyway… for those times when you just don’t have the appropriate balanced cable on-hand.  See, that’s a good surprise right?
> 
> ...


The word Gen 3 makes my stomach grumble. What Gen 3? I thought there were only 2 gens. Is there a link to Gen 3 discussion


----------



## Pharmaboy

maheeinfy said:


> The word Gen 3 makes my stomach grumble. What Gen 3? I thought there were only 2 gens. Is there a link to Gen 3 discussion



Sorry--typo. There only are 2 generations, 1 & 2. 

Gen 2 was sold by Cavalli in 2 separate offerings, so it gets a little confusing.


----------



## mandrake50 (Sep 11, 2017)

Anyone else se this yet??
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...leCampaignId=165044&iterableTemplateId=238488

Liquid Carbon X $299. The claim is that it has the same internals as the first versions. I assume the improvements in V2 are there as well.


----------



## doctorjazz

So folks who supported the product before it was released have basically been screwed.


----------



## KimbaWLion

I feel VERY, VERY cheated at the moment. I enjoy my LC 2.0 but seeing what I can get one new for makes it sound rather sour at the moment...


----------



## canthearyou

I'm glad I just recently spent almost $700 on a used LC 2.0.


----------



## Muinarc

This is what making something in China vs the U.S. does. The Chinese one will probably be more reliable too unfortunately.


----------



## GLowaslike

This is really not cool


----------



## mandrake50

Yeah, first thing I thought was.... Alex had my money for a good while, I was patient with the delays, now my resale value is pretty well shot.
BUT, Alex does absolutely need to do what is good for his business. Of course the good side of this is that many more people will be ale to enjoy the Cavalli sound at a very reasonable price.

One thing I did not see was the warranty. I would think that the lifetime warranty is worth quite a bit. If that makes anyone feel any better...


----------



## mandrake50

Muinarc said:


> This is what making something in China vs the U.S. does. The Chinese one will probably be more reliable too unfortunately.


 Did you see something saying that the X is being made in China?


----------



## Muinarc

mandrake50 said:


> Did you see something saying that the X is being made in China?



Well the CTH is and this looks to be in the same case and it's extremely cheap...... pretty sure this will be china manufacture.


----------



## mandrake50 (Sep 11, 2017)

I checked.
1 Year warranty. That is certainly a big difference right there.

Almost 500 requests so far.... <SIGH>


----------



## doraymon

Are we sure it's exactly a LC2 except for the housing?


----------



## mandrake50

That is the claim. Go to MD and check the discussion. First post. They moved the power supply outboard (probably cheaper), removed the RSA out and the 3.5 mm input, added a set of RCA outs on the back. They mention sourcing a better pot for the volume control as well.
Who know, the power supply change may make a difference in the sound, For better or for worse...


----------



## kingdixon

It strikes me even more as a v1 owner that it seems to also include v2 mods of the power supply and the hiss fix in the description ..

But strange enough, it is a very obvious thing that they must have thought about, may be its different in some way or they just thought whatever ..


----------



## doraymon

The claim is that it has "the same topology" and different power supply and input/output jacks.
If Cavalli claimed  that they had to increase the price of the LC2 VS 1 because it was not sustainable, how can the X be sustainable if it has the same exact components in an ever bigger enclosure?


----------



## Mediahound

doraymon said:


> The claim is that it has "the same topology" and different power supply and input/output jacks.
> If Cavalli claimed  that they had to increase the price of the LC2 VS 1 because it was not sustainable, how can the X be sustainable if it has the same exact components in an ever bigger enclosure?



Probably because they're now on Massdrop and they hope to get a lot more money up front before even shipping anything.


----------



## mandrake50

doraymon said:


> The claim is that it has "the same topology" and different power supply and input/output jacks.
> If Cavalli claimed  that they had to increase the price of the LC2 VS 1 because it was not sustainable, how can the X be sustainable if it has the same exact components in an ever bigger enclosure?



 If it is truly made in China, there is your answer. That and the fact that the design and parts qualification has all been done and paid for.

I wonder if they are really going to use the same quality parts. I remember Alex struggling to get many parts and boards made to his standards... and yes there is the problem with the volume control that he had issues with.

Massdrop does say that they are using their manufacturing and supply chain. If they plan on building lots of these, economy of scale will play a part as well.

The more that I read, the more that I think they just bought the design, and paid to use his name on the thing. Who knows, at this point, whether it will really sound the same.


----------



## maheeinfy

Some one on MD wrote -
Liquid Gold X ? Next week ?

I will be waiting


----------



## mandrake50

I am sure not holding my breath on that.... but an LAU clone for half price would be something I would definitely look seriously at.


----------



## upsguys88

I don't have an LC but have always wanted to pair it with my pulse infinity in balanced mode. I personally love the look of the original ones as well as the extra features and not having to use that annoying power core.


----------



## mandrake50

I used mine in exactly that configuration. A great chain. One of the few pairings with the HE 560 that did not make me cringe at the upper mids ...


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I know that it's alex cavalli and massdrop thing. But, we never heard anything from alex himself. Two (might be more) cavalli products back to back from massdrop but nothing from alex doesn't seems right; Especially when we are waiting for some new products like Liquid sparks and still heard nothing about it.


----------



## kencheungkk

I am a Liquid Carbon v2 owner for few months............. 
Here comes Liquid Carbon X now, Thanks God.


----------



## KimbaWLion

It does make you wonder does it not? But I do want a comment from Alex because one of the adverts on the LC 2.0 there were would be no more...
I did not buy it for the exclusivity, I bought because of his reputation and not ever going to be able to afford a different Cavalli. It was between this and the Schiit
and all the advice was buy the LC 2 you will never see it again and it will sound even better than the Schiit offering... I need to hear something believable from Cavalli saying how I should not 
feel ripped off...


----------



## doraymon

KimbaWLion said:


> It does make you wonder does it not? But I do want a comment from Alex because one of the adverts on the LC 2.0 there were would be no more...
> I did not buy it for the exclusivity, I bought because of his reputation and not ever going to be able to afford a different Cavalli. It was between this and the Schiit
> and all the advice was buy the LC 2 you will never see it again and it will sound even better than the Schiit offering... I need to hear something believable from Cavalli saying how I should not
> feel ripped off...


I agree, let's ask Cavalli to clarify these points before jumping to conclusions.
But I want it now, not after the Massdrop purchase is over!


----------



## swspiers

Speaking just for myself, as a first gen owner: this is no big deal.

Even if the differences are simply cosmetic, I have no doubt I have a superior product.  Even if it's the same topology, that doesn't mean it's the same parts. 

I hope Massdrop sells thousands of these, and it funds further TOTL amps from Alex himself. What a great way to get people into our hobby: plant the seed, have them move up the food chain. Heck, I hope he teams with Apple and gets a "Cavalli by Beats"  tag.  Even better: Skullcandy Edition.

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## abvolt

I know one things for sure this Thursday I'll be getting a Cavalli Liquid Carbon X..


----------



## zaintachik

Truth be told as a V1 owner i'm disappointed to hear this but I think we need to be cognisant the fact that the reason Alex came out with the LC was an appreciation to the Head Fi community to enjoy a Cavalli equipment which we normally would not be able to. Collaboration with MD gives them that, who knows we might get to enjoy other Cavalli stuff at cheaper price points.


----------



## kencheungkk (Sep 12, 2017)

Liquid Carbon V1  : with lifetime warranty and cheaper price
Liquid Carbon V2 first batch : price increased, 1 year warranty with power cord and software.
Liquid Carbon V2 final batch : same price with V2, 1 year warranty and with no gift.

I am the V2 final batch owner and I felt that I was the biggest loser.


----------



## Mediahound

I suspect Cavalli actually has nothing to do with these Massdrop amps and just licensed (sold) the name to Massdrop.


----------



## maheeinfy

They should have used a different name than Carbon. Something uncool like molybdenum or something

And then call it a new amp. Then Carbon owner's won't be butt hurt


----------



## wasupdog

true, but even if they did the marketing differently we would find out later on that it's the same sounds as the LC.  

what the heck is the point of stacking them???  They're both amps.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

It's weird if Cavalli not involved in the whole process of making the amp as the original pattern should comes from Cavalli. Plus, massdrop declares that it is basically the same amp as LC but a little different chassis. Sonically, it is the same carbon. So, Cavalli should involve in a way or another. hmmmm...

But yeah, that's a heck of a deal.


----------



## purk

maheeinfy said:


> They should have used a different name than Carbon. Something uncool like molybdenum or something
> 
> And then call it a new amp. Then Carbon owner's won't be butt hurt


Why should they use a different name when the Liquid Carbon is so well received and there is no need for introduction let alone the cost of advertisement?  I feel bad for the owners and I did own one too.  IMO, this amp may sound even better because the original PSU was space limited.  Imagine a proper build dedicated power supply and this amp will sound even better.


----------



## maheeinfy

purk said:


> Why should they use a different name when the Liquid Carbon is so well received and there is no need for introduction let alone the cost of advertisement?  I feel bad for the owners and I did own one too.  IMO, this amp may sound even better because the original PSU was space limited.  Imagine a proper build dedicated power supply and this amp will sound even better.


Alex could probably pushed them to market it as a new amp, you know taking care of his customers and his own reputation


----------



## Shawnb

After this I'll think twice about buying Cavalli now.


----------



## doraymon

Shawnb said:


> After this I'll think twice about buying Cavalli now.


Same here. Really not appreciated as a move, provided it will be confirmed that it's the same amp.


----------



## doctorjazz

Absolutely sucks... The "x" version would not seem to be "transportable" as the original was meant to be.


----------



## zerogorgor

Shawnb said:


> After this I'll think twice about buying Cavalli now.





doraymon said:


> Same here. Really not appreciated as a move, provided it will be confirmed that it's the same amp.



I think I am classifying Cavalli Audio as a Massdrop "minion brand" now and I probably will not get any Cavalli products except those offered on Massdrop. 

I do notice Cavalli has been changing since they have got a new CEO, and I kind of like the idea of making Cavalli's stuff more accessible. But this series of frequent buyer-friendly product launches is quite a shift in brand image.


----------



## sheldaze

zerogorgor said:


> I do notice Cavalli has been changing since they have got a new CEO



Who is the new CEO?


----------



## zerogorgor

sheldaze said:


> Who is the new CEO?



A fellow Head-Fier Warren Chi

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audio-next-phase.795315/


----------



## MattTCG

I would say that Warren has made a huge positive impact from a business perspective and otherwise. It was a great hire IMHO.


----------



## Audio Addict

zerogorgor said:


> I think I am classifying Cavalli Audio as a Massdrop "minion brand" now and I probably will not get any Cavalli products except those offered on Massdrop.
> 
> I do notice Cavalli has been changing since they have got a new CEO, and I kind of like the idea of making Cavalli's stuff more accessible. But this series of frequent buyer-friendly product launches is quite a shift in brand image.





zerogorgor said:


> A fellow Head-Fier Warren Chi
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audio-next-phase.795315/



I have not seen Warren post for Cavalli Audio for sometime.  Have you confirmed he is still the CEO?


----------



## sahmen (Sep 12, 2017)

I just cancelled my Massdrop CTH order, and I am feeling better already.  If there is a Massdrop/Cavalli Liquid Crimson X or Liquid Gold X, offered at half the price of the original, I shall get in on that drop.  For now, I shall remain a Liquid Carbon Gen 1 owner and be satisfied with that.

I still think Massdrop should declare upfront all the Cavalli products they have planned to release in the near future, so that prospective buyers can see their way clearly in choosing what they will like to own and what they will like to avoid before committing to a drop.  This drip-drip-drop trickle-down method they're now using, in revealing a new Cavalli drop every few weeks or months, may seem at first to be a good way of cashing in on the curiosity of budget buyers, but in the long run, it is just a machine for generating potential mass buyer's remorse which they might find to be eventually unwelcome...

Besides, I think Dr. Cavalli has built a good name for himself in the business, a name which should not be associated with such small-time marketing gimmicks in order to attract buyers...  That is just my opinion...


----------



## zerogorgor

Audio Addict said:


> I have not seen Warren post for Cavalli Audio for sometime.  Have you confirmed he is still the CEO?



I haven't, and I am curious too. But I would expect an announcement in the Sponsor Announcement section if there is such a major personnell change, as with Warren's appointment.



sahmen said:


> [...]If there is a Massdrop/Cavalli Liquid Crimson X or Liquid Gold X, offered at half the price of the original, I shall get in on that drop.  [...]



It would be very tempting if they offer a Massdrop x Cavalli Liquid Gold X/Crimson X or the likes... I'm almost definitely getting one if there's such a drop


----------



## Mediahound

zerogorgor said:


> It would be very tempting if they offer a Massdrop x Cavalli Liquid Gold X/Crimson X or the likes... I'm almost definitely getting one if there's such a drop




It's not likely. Cavalli is trying to do more down market.


----------



## snip3r77

If the massdrop lc uses a brick would the architecture be different with lc2?


----------



## Roman Johnston

So is the gear good...or is just everyone pissed they are not so hoity toity now? Down market.....blah blah blah. If they are slacking I would understand but if you're just upset because they are marketing to a larger less "exclusive" crowd....well I do not buy my audio gear is about my ears...not my wallet or stature.


----------



## doraymon

Roman Johnston said:


> So is the gear good...or is just everyone pissed they are not so hoity toity now? Down market.....blah blah blah. If they are slacking I would understand but if you're just upset because they are marketing to a larger less "exclusive" crowd....well I do not buy my audio gear is about my ears...not my wallet or stature.


I don't think you actually read the previous posts.


----------



## Mentis

sahmen said:


> I just cancelled my Massdrop CTH order, and I am feeling better already.  If there is a Massdrop/Cavalli Liquid Crimson X or Liquid Gold X, offered at half the price of the original, I shall get in on that drop.  For now, I shall remain a Liquid Carbon Gen 1 owner and be satisfied with that.
> 
> I still think Massdrop should declare upfront all the Cavalli products they have planned to release in the near future, so that prospective buyers can see their way clearly in choosing what they will like to own and what they will like to avoid before committing to a drop.  This drip-drip-drop trickle-down method they're now using, in revealing a new Cavalli drop every few weeks or months, may seem at first to be a good way of cashing in on the curiosity of budget buyers, but in the long run, it is just a machine for generating potential mass buyer's remorse which they might find to be eventually unwelcome...
> 
> Besides, I think Dr. Cavalli has built a good name for himself in the business, a name which should not be associated with such small-time marketing gimmicks in order to attract buyers...  That is just my opinion...



I'm going to cancel mine as well... They no longer retain their value...


----------



## Roman Johnston

You would be correct....174 posts. And I am looking at the end to see the basic attitude about the amp as I just saw it on Massdrop. Everyone here at the end sounds like they are complaining. I did a little digging though on some reviews and saw it was a more "tube" like sound and will be avoiding it. Not a fan of tubes. Thanks though....


----------



## Roman Johnston

Mentis said:


> I'm going to cancel mine as well... They no longer retain their value...


Who buys electronics as an investment (I am talking monetary not sound)?


----------



## doraymon (Sep 12, 2017)

Roman Johnston said:


> You would be correct....174 posts. And I am looking at the end to see the basic attitude about the amp as I just saw it on Massdrop. Everyone here at the end sounds like they are complaining. I did a little digging though on some reviews and saw it was a more "tube" like sound and will be avoiding it. Not a fan of tubes. Thanks though....


You don't need to read 174 posts to understand that the complaints were not that Cavalli decided to widen their customers base but that they repackaged an amp they sold until a few weeks ago for 800$ and are selling it for 300$.
Is this not a fair reason to be not so happy?
I can't afford buying new gear if I don't sell my actual one so this kind of operations just kill the residual value of my gear = I'm very, very upset!
Ah, and I don't give a # about exclusivity!


----------



## doctorjazz

Seems to me, if there's an external power supply that can be upgraded that's a good thing sonically speaking (assuming all else is equal). Having "noise" more isolated could be beneficial even without upgrading the power supply. It does make it less transportable, though.


----------



## Roman Johnston

doraymon said:


> You don't need to read 174 posts to understand that the complaints were not that Cavalli decided to widen their customers base but that they repackaged an amp they sold until a few weeks ago for 800$ and are selling it for 300$.
> Is this not a fair reason to be not so happy?
> I can't afford buying new gear if I don't sell my actual one so this kind of operations just kill the residual value of my gear = I'm very, very upset!
> Ah, and I don't give a # about exclusivity!


Actually it is not. Bad timing is what I would say. If they get a broader market and bring a quality that was usually sold for 800.00....down to 300.00 so more people can enjoy that quality? I have been in that situation....and I did not get pissed at all. That's how markets work. I am not jumping for joy....of course but I am happy that others can enjoy the sound. But then I think more than just about myself in this world. If loosing 500.00 is the worst thing that happens to you in your life...you should THANK THE GODS for being kind. Sheesh.....1st world problems.


----------



## doctorjazz

That's rediculous... Those of us who put money UP FRONT, with the promise of "Cavalli Sound" at a bargain price, have plenty of reason to be ticked off.
My $0.02.


----------



## doraymon

> If loosing 500.00 is the worst thing that happens to you in your life...you should THANK THE GODS for being kind. Sheesh.....1st world problems.


You should learn to pay some respect to people you don't know.
You don't know what you are talking about so please refrain from writing this sentences.


----------



## scanspeakman1

Wow. Relax guys. What do we know so far? Basically nothing. It just states it uses the same tolopolgy. What does that mean? That the basic idea behind the schematic is the same. Thats it. It doesnt say that the schematic itself is exactly the same. 

Thats how most productlines work. Look at the internals of a 300 and 400 dollar Marantz cd-player. Same topology but slightly different implementation such using a muting relay instead of transistor in the 400 dollar model.

Will the LC X sound the same as the LC v1 or v2. Probably yes. But so does the LAu. And any Schiit product. It is more in the details and refinement. And whether there is a big or small difference in sound between the LC X and LC v1/v2; we have to wait until the first review. 

Scanspeakman 
(LC v1 owner and loving it every day; thinking about buying a LC X for the office)


----------



## DaemonSire

Warren hasn't been with Cavalli for a while now...see post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cav...questions-updates.845115/page-8#post-13686885


----------



## zerogorgor

DaemonSire said:


> Warren hasn't been with Cavalli for a while now...see post:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audio-•-2017-line-up-•-questions-updates.845115/page-8#post-13686885



Thank you for the clarification!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I believe someone already has the LCX by now for review. That usually how it goes before the drop go live. At least, we know if it's the exact same thing as the original LC. But, is there any reason that we heard nothing about it?


----------



## ilcg1 (Nov 17, 2017)

...


----------



## fiascogarcia

doraymon said:


> The claim is that it has "the same topology" and different power supply and input/output jacks.
> If Cavalli claimed  that they had to increase the price of the LC2 VS 1 because it was not sustainable, how can the X be sustainable if it has the same exact components in an ever bigger enclosure?


With Massdrop, they will take a Cavalli design and oversee the manufacture and quality control of the item they are selling.  Cavalli will not be involved in the manufacturing process, only the design.  That has been my understanding of the Massdrop process.  Ironically, I mostly use the 3.5mm input and the RSA output on my LC!


----------



## upsguys88

Question, would I be able to connect this to my Geek LPS4 power supply?
thumb_up


----------



## purk

Per CEETEE, this is a real Liquid Carbon with slightly better PSU in a less transportable chassis with different ins and outs..


----------



## Shawnb

This has lost any goodwill I felt towards Cavalli. I blindly threw money at the Liquid Spark and CTH just for the Cavalli name but now I'm glad I was able to cancel both. 
I'll stick with my LC since they destroyed any resale value it had but from now on I'll be looking at every other brand first.


----------



## Mediahound

Shawnb said:


> This has lost any goodwill I felt towards Cavalli. I blindly threw money at the Liquid Spark and CTH just for the Cavalli name but now I'm glad I was able to cancel both.
> I'll stick with my LC since they destroyed any resale value it had but from now on I'll be looking at every other brand first.



I like the way Schiit does things. They only sell what they have (none of this pay now, we'll ship in 6 months stuff). And, they are made in USA. Not to mention sound great typically.


----------



## maheeinfy

I hope there wont be a Massdrop Jotunheim X for $200 one day


----------



## taetertot

Respect for the feelings of all, but I'm not understanding the ire. Is the proposition being put forward that the prices of products you buy, should never go down?

I have an LC2 btw. Bought it less than a year ago at $800. I love this thing and I'm all for a price drop that allows more folks to enjoy it. I'll be ordering 2 of these when the drop goes live to give as Christmas gifts.


----------



## Mentis

taetertot said:


> Respect for the feelings of all, but I'm not understanding the ire. Is the proposition being put forward that the prices of products you buy, should never go down?
> 
> I have an LC2 btw. Bought it less than a year ago at $800. I love this thing and I'm all for a price drop that allows more folks to enjoy it. I'll be ordering 2 of these when the drop goes live to give as Christmas gifts.



I have LC1 and I'll be waiting for the Crimson or Gold drop... Then probably give my LC1 to my family as gift... At least the one I have is lifetime warranty, and I like the serial number under 100.


----------



## Pharmaboy

taetertot said:


> Respect for the feelings of all, but I'm not understanding the ire. Is the proposition being put forward that the prices of products you buy, should never go down?
> 
> I have an LC2 btw. Bought it less than a year ago at $800. I love this thing and I'm all for a price drop that allows more folks to enjoy it. I'll be ordering 2 of these when the drop goes live to give as Christmas gifts.



Have to agree w/you re "ire" (great word for extreme annoyance). I'm a very satisfied owner of the LC v2 (one of the last ones sold off Cavalli website...no plans to sell it, now or later. My LC works perfectly; its sound impresses me greatly; and its sonic equivalence to the LC X has yet to be demonstrated/established. 

What I'm mainly feeling is confusion over LC's branding & sudden profusion of low-end models. Before these drops, I had some sense of where the LC fit in the hierarchy of Cavalli models. No more, though.


----------



## kellte2

Pharmaboy said:


> Have to agree w/you re "ire" (great word for extreme annoyance). I'm a very satisfied owner of the LC v2 (one of the last ones sold off Cavalli website...no plans to sell it, now or later. My LC works perfectly; its sound impresses me greatly; and its sonic equivalence to the LC X has yet to be demonstrated/established.
> 
> What I'm mainly feeling is confusion over LC's branding & sudden profusion of low-end models. Before these drops, I had some sense of where the LC fit in the hierarchy of Cavalli models. No more, though.


Excellent points.  I'm disappointed, having purchased the LC2 for 700 NIB earlier this year.  I like the amp plenty, but feel somewhat duped based on representations made by Cavalli regarding the LC.


----------



## bflat

A bit of catch-22 isn't it? The lifetime guarantee of V1 and V2 owners is worth a lot, but worthless if Cavalli goes out of business. I'm not sure how they are surviving with practically no products sold in the past year. Perhaps they need some additional funds to finish the Liquid Spark production too.


----------



## fiascogarcia

Pharmaboy said:


> Have to agree w/you re "ire" (great word for extreme annoyance). I'm a very satisfied owner of the LC v2 (one of the last ones sold off Cavalli website...no plans to sell it, now or later. My LC works perfectly; its sound impresses me greatly; and its sonic equivalence to the LC X has yet to be demonstrated/established.
> 
> What I'm mainly feeling is confusion over LC's branding & sudden profusion of low-end models. Before these drops, I had some sense of where the LC fit in the hierarchy of Cavalli models. No more, though.


My suspicion is that it isn't necessarily a change in their branding, but more a desire by Cavalli to get some final profit on an amp they don't want to continue to make.  From their standpoint, they don't have any additional production costs and still can capture royalties on a well respected product.  There seems to be a degree of ambivalence on their part about the emotional effect on customers who paid full price, but I don't feel ripped off by this move; I guess business is business and I'm happy with my LC at the price I paid for it.

By the way, I also noticed that Chord is doing the same thing with the Mojo, so maybe these companies see that they've reached the peak of their sales curve on these items, and this is a super inexpensive way for them to capture some final revenue on their lower priced items with no extra cost.  Completely my personal opinion.


----------



## ilcg1 (Nov 17, 2017)

...


----------



## Mediahound

fiascogarcia said:


> By the way, I also noticed that Chord is doing the same thing with the Mojo, so maybe these companies see that they've reached the peak of their sales curve on these items, and this is a super inexpensive way for them to capture some final revenue on their lower priced items with no extra cost.  Completely my personal opinion.




Wrong:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/cho...d-please-read-the-3rd-post/8580#post_12223344

"We are currently looking into how or where Mass drop have obtained the unit in their photo or other units resold to them without our knowledge. I can confirm that we at Chord Electronics ltd have had no discussions with this retail company."


----------



## x RELIC x (Sep 12, 2017)

fiascogarcia said:


> By the way, I also noticed that Chord is doing the same thing with the Mojo, so maybe these companies see that they've reached the peak of their sales curve on these items, and this is a super inexpensive way for them to capture some final revenue on their lower priced items with no extra cost.  Completely my personal opinion.



It's a bit different as Chord does not sanction the Massdrop sales of the Mojo and has said they will not provide warranty from grey market Massdrop sales of the Mojo.

Edit: crosspost with @Mediahound 

I see this whole thing similar to the Sennheiser HD6XX sales on Massdrop, but then again I sold my Liquid Carbon a while ago but can understand the re-sale perspective. We'll just have to see how different the two amps are and hopefully Alex will chime in with a response...


----------



## taetertot

bflat said:


> A bit of catch-22 isn't it? The lifetime guarantee of V1 and V2 owners is worth a lot, but worthless if Cavalli goes out of business. I'm not sure how they are surviving with practically no products sold in the past year. Perhaps they need some additional funds to finish the Liquid Spark production too.




Does v2 even have a lifetime warranty? That's what I have and I don't think it does.


----------



## canthearyou

taetertot said:


> Respect for the feelings of all, but I'm not understanding the ire. Is the proposition being put forward that the prices of products you buy, should never go down?
> 
> I have an LC2 btw. Bought it less than a year ago at $800. I love this thing and I'm all for a price drop that allows more folks to enjoy it. I'll be ordering 2 of these when the drop goes live to give as Christmas gifts.



FYI they won't even ship till end of February.


----------



## fiascogarcia

x RELIC x said:


> It's a bit different as Chord does not sanction the Massdrop sales of the Mojo and has said they will not provide warranty from grey market Massdrop sales of the Mojo.
> 
> Edit: crosspost with @Mediahound
> 
> I see this whole thing similar to the Sennheiser HD6XX sales on Massdrop, but then again I sold my Liquid Carbon a while ago but can understand the re-sale perspective. We'll just have to see how different the two amps are and hopefully Alex will chime in with a response...


Interesting point.  Does that mean that the warranty comes from Cavalli then, or does Massdrop warranty their own sales?  Thanks!


----------



## fiascogarcia

Mediahound said:


> Wrong:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/cho...d-please-read-the-3rd-post/8580#post_12223344
> 
> "We are currently looking into how or where Mass drop have obtained the unit in their photo or other units resold to them without our knowledge. I can confirm that we at Chord Electronics ltd have had no discussions with this retail company."


Thanks! Good info!


----------



## taetertot

canthearyou said:


> FYI they won't even ship till end of February.




This really is a Massdrop then. Well I suppose there will be a Christmas in 2018 too.


----------



## x RELIC x

fiascogarcia said:


> Interesting point.  Does that mean that the warranty comes from Cavalli then, or does Massdrop warranty their own sales?  Thanks!



Good question. Massdrop claims to provide the warranty with the Mojo but I don't see how unless they would just replace units. If Cavalli would post a response it would be best for the thread regarding Warranty as I wouldn't want to guess.


----------



## Mediahound

x RELIC x said:


> Good question. Massdrop claims to provide the warranty with the Mojo but I don't see how unless they would just replace units. If Cavalli would post a response it would be best for the thread regarding Warranty as I wouldn't want to guess.



The warranty is provided by Massdrop, not Cavalli: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp/talk/1810058


----------



## runeight

x RELIC x said:


> Good question. Massdrop claims to provide the warranty with the Mojo but I don't see how unless they would just replace units. If Cavalli would post a response it would be best for the thread regarding Warranty as I wouldn't want to guess.



Massdrop is supplying the warranty on the cavalli products that they manufacture.


----------



## x RELIC x

There ya go... Thanks Alex.


----------



## purk

runeight said:


> Massdrop is supplying the warranty on the cavalli products that they manufacture.


Any sonic difference between the old V1 and V2 vs the Carbon X?  Please share your thoughts.


----------



## doctorjazz

If I remember correctly, lifetime warranty was only for v1.


----------



## doctorjazz

I didn't ever get to compare v1 and v2, but my understanding is that the change in v2 was mostly involving the single ended output.


----------



## mandrake50

Roman Johnston said:


> So is the gear good...or is just everyone pissed they are not so hoity toity now? Down market.....blah blah blah. If they are slacking I would understand but if you're just upset because they are marketing to a larger less "exclusive" crowd....*well I do not buy my audio gear is about my ears*...not my wallet or stature.


 Can you explain what you meant by the above bolded fragment?
I am sincerely confused. Normally I can figure out such, not this time? So what is your point?


----------



## mandrake50

fiascogarcia said:


> With Massdrop, they will take a Cavalli design and oversee the manufacture and quality control of the item they are selling.  Cavalli will not be involved in the manufacturing process, only the design.  That has been my understanding of the Massdrop process.  Ironically, I mostly use the 3.5mm input and the RSA output on my LC!



Interesting quote from the Cavalli 2017 thread:
TSAVJason says<

"It definitely has the Cavalli audio signature and even if it were made here by Cavalli it would still be about the same price. In fact knowing Alex as I do, possibly less than Massdrop is selling it for. It is a design clearly pointed at price but at $299 is a good product. It is not by any means as good aa a carbon but it's good like you'd expect from any of Alex's designs."


----------



## Roman Johnston

mandrake50 said:


> Can you explain what you meant by the above-bolded fragment?
> I am sincerely confused. Normally I can figure out such, not this time? So what is your point?


Yeah...multi tasking while writing. I think I completed a sentence in my head then posted the rest. (Ok...ok...you got me!!!) What I mean to type was that I buy my audio gear FOR my ears, not for my stature or walled (meaning resale value). I intend on using it till I find something considerably better.....and I know I will have to sell the old gear for pennies on the dollar or even give it to deserving friends or family.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## mandrake50

fiascogarcia said:


> Interesting point.  Does that mean that the warranty comes from Cavalli then, or does Massdrop warranty their own sales?  Thanks!


They (Massdrop) specifically say it is their warranty.


----------



## DaemonSire

mandrake50 said:


> Interesting quote from the Cavalli 2017 thread:
> TSAVJason says<
> 
> "It definitely has the Cavalli audio signature and even if it were made here by Cavalli it would still be about the same price. In fact knowing Alex as I do, possibly less than Massdrop is selling it for. It is a design clearly pointed at price but at $299 is a good product. It is not by any means as good aa a carbon but it's good like you'd expect from any of Alex's designs."



I might be wrong, and Jason can clarify, but I *think* he was just confused and was referring to the CTH and not the Carbon.  Based on a few posts around that time, I don't think he knew the Carbon was coming


----------



## mandrake50

They had just been discussing the LCX....
Here is the preceding post:
"Here is a bone:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp

A better version of the the original Liquid Carbon for $299"

He directly replied to that with:
"Ah I think not. It is however a real Cavalli design but is not a better version of the carbon. Cavalli does not build it, Massdrop builds it."

Maybe some confusion, but hard to tell from that exchange.
Anyway, it is not important, I just thought it interesting.


----------



## purk (Sep 12, 2017)

DaemonSire said:


> I might be wrong, and Jason can clarify, but I *think* he was just confused and was referring to the CTH and not the Carbon.  Based on a few posts around that time, I don't think he knew the Carbon was coming


I am not surprised if the X sound even better than the old Liquid Carbon.  Remember that u can get chassis work really cheap in China and the brick switching PSU is fairly hefty and may already produce better sound than the onboard PSU.  Don't forget that with more space, you can also use better volume pot such as Blue Velvet pot.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fiascogarcia said:


> My suspicion is that it isn't necessarily a change in their branding, but more a desire by Cavalli to get some final profit on an amp they don't want to continue to make.  From their standpoint, they don't have any additional production costs and still can capture royalties on a well respected product.  There seems to be a degree of ambivalence on their part about the emotional effect on customers who paid full price, but I don't feel ripped off by this move; I guess business is business and I'm happy with my LC at the price I paid for it.
> 
> By the way, I also noticed that Chord is doing the same thing with the Mojo, so maybe these companies see that they've reached the peak of their sales curve on these items, and this is a super inexpensive way for them to capture some final revenue on their lower priced items with no extra cost.  Completely my personal opinion.



Interesting perspective. I've only been paying 1/2-attention to this thread, but I'm guessing from your comments that someone other than Cavalli is mfr'ing these new LC variants, the tube hybrid and the X...? If so, then you would seem to be absolutely right.


----------



## AnakChan

Few folks have reported but I'm not going to moderate as it seems to be sorting itself out now, however hereafter this post, PLEASE MOVE ON back to the thread subject.


----------



## abvolt

I'll say I'm sure excited on finally getting my hands on a Cavalli liquid carbon headamp, I've heard the first version of this amp some time ago and only hope this one is as good. After sufficient listening time passes I'll sure voice my opinion good or bad..enjoy


----------



## kencheungkk

For the MD model X case, I am not going to buy anything from both company anymore.


----------



## snip3r77

musiclvr said:


> You will never go wrong with your comments here so long as you do not make personal attacks at someone's intellect in order to be demeaning sir.
> 
> I am a LC2.0 owner after having sold my LC1.0. I will be keeping my LC because I love its sound. It can be quite resolving but forgiving at the same time. I absolutely love it it with my Grado GS2KE (Balanced Terminated) and my Audeze LCD-X (2017 iteration). Cheers and Happy listening!


I'm intending to combo the mass drop LC with LCD X. How is this combo? Assuming the sound is the same as lc 2.0


----------



## musiclvr

snip3r77 said:


> I'm intending to combo the mass drop LC with LCD X. How is this combo? Assuming the sound is the same as lc 2.0



The LC & LCD-X pairing is truly phenomenal for me. The dynamism is phenomenal and the speed at which it is delivered is breathtaking. That would be my biggest compliment to this pairing. 

The LC allows for critical listening but isn't so cold as to keep you there as it has an overall slightly warm character while maintaining the integrity of the source feed. I find that the LC does not take away from any headphones overall character but what is noticeable is the fluidity that the LC can instill maybe due to the power on tap coupled with the Cavalli magic. lol do you have any specific questions about the pairing that I might be able to elaborate on?


----------



## snip3r77

musiclvr said:


> The LC & LCD-X pairing is truly phenomenal for me. The dynamism is phenomenal and the speed at which it is delivered is breathtaking. That would be my biggest compliment to this pairing.
> 
> The LC allows for critical listening but isn't so cold as to keep you there as it has an overall slightly warm character while maintaining the integrity of the source feed. I find that the LC does not take away from any headphones overall character but what is noticeable is the fluidity that the LC can instill maybe due to the power on tap coupled with the Cavalli magic. lol do you have any specific questions about the pairing that I might be able to elaborate on?


I felt the LCD X is a bit bright at times. If this combo is a bit warm, it would be able to tame the highs a bit. Does it ?

Also how is the bass (slam) ? 

Thanks


----------



## swspiers

Roman Johnston said:


> You would be correct....174 posts. And I am looking at the end to see the basic attitude about the amp as I just saw it on Massdrop. Everyone here at the end sounds like they are complaining. I did a little digging though on some reviews and saw it was a more "tube" like sound and will be avoiding it. Not a fan of tubes. Thanks though....


The "tube" sound was always an exaggeration, IMO.  It's just a very refined, smooth, detailed presentation.  For me, it has a "very good amp" sound...


----------



## doctorjazz

I do think it is a bit "tubey" sounding (it's just a shorthand way to describe it). My MicroZOTL2, which IS a tube amp, is more open, detailed "less tubey" than the LC. Imo, of course, multiple disclaimers, ymmv, etcetera etcetera...


----------



## Roman Johnston

doctorjazz said:


> I do think it is a bit "tubey" sounding (it's just a shorthand way to describe it). My MicroZOTL2, which IS a tube amp, is more open, detailed "less tubey" than the LC. Imo, of course, multiple disclaimers, ymmv, etcetera etcetera...


Thanks for that. I like a more open airy sound and got the Grado RS2e cans because of the mid warmth while still having brighter (but not totally in your face or clinical) highs. So Tubes would take that warmth probably to an uncomfortable level for me. Currently using the Schiit Fulla 2 for my Dac/Amp combo and actually very happy.

I have been researching and found that outside of the Tube/Solid State changes, DACs seem to have less of an impact then the amp. My Grados are very easy to drive...so no need for like a Jotunheim. Multi-Bit DACs are also more of a smoothing and a bit more tube like from what I have read....so basically looking for a good and not too expensive clean amp dac combo that keeps the desired open and airy feel. I would like a nice clean noise floor and any tightening and expansion of the bass would be welcome. Saw this from the MassDrop and found this thread. I am thinking cost wise the Magni/Modi stack might be my best option for an upgrade. (even with that not sure there might be much of a difference from the Fulla 2 with my easier to drive headphones).

Any suggestions from any of you who have tested different combos?


----------



## bearFNF (Sep 13, 2017)

The original magni/modi stack I have is VERY bright with my Grado 325i and HD800, not recommended at all. Vali was way better. I just got the Fulla2 and like it with my GH1Gs. Can't beat the form factor either.


Roman Johnston said:


> Thanks for that. I like a more open airy sound and got the Grado RS2e cans because of the mid warmth while still having brighter (but not totally in your face or clinical) highs. So Tubes would take that warmth probably to an uncomfortable level for me. Currently using the Schiit Fulla 2 for my Dac/Amp combo and actually very happy.
> 
> I have been researching and found that outside of the Tube/Solid State changes, DACs seem to have less of an impact then the amp. My Grados are very easy to drive...so no need for like a Jotunheim. Multi-Bit DACs are also more of a smoothing and a bit more tube like from what I have read....so basically looking for a good and not too expensive clean amp dac combo that keeps the desired open and airy feel. I would like a nice clean noise floor and any tightening and expansion of the bass would be welcome. Saw this from the MassDrop and found this thread. I am thinking cost wise the Magni/Modi stack might be my best option for an upgrade. (even with that not sure there might be much of a difference from the Fulla 2 with my easier to drive headphones).
> 
> Any suggestions from any of you who have tested different combos?


----------



## Roman Johnston

bearFNF said:


> The original magni/modi stack I have is VERY bright with my Grado 325i and HD800, not recommended at all. Vali was way better. I just got the Fulla2 and like it with my GH1Gs. Can't beat the firm factor either.


Maybe I am chasing butterflies. Maybe the Fulla 2 is my end game as a budget audiophile. Don't mind not spending any more money. The only things that would pry money from my wallet is a larger sound stage and a little more accurate bass. I am guessing I have a pretty darned good listening experience as it is. I use quality source files, and spent the money on my headphones.  Thanks for the input!!


----------



## elNan

Hi!

I've been saving my pennies to buy a balanced solid state amplifier. Until the announcement of the new Massdrop/Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, I was aiming for the Cayin iHA6 amp, right now I'm undecided. Has anyone had the chance of listening to these 2 units (in the case of the Cavalli, the original Liquid Carbon 2.0)? What are your general impressions? How do they stack up against each other? 

Any insight would be really appreciated!


----------



## Pharmaboy

Just had another experience that makes me feel the love for my LC v2.0:

Recently got a new pair of E-Mu Teaks. Burned them in for ~150 hrs using the LC + CD player in the garage, then had little time for listening before going on vaca
Last night started getting re-acquainted w/the Teaks, preparing to do some pad rolling to improve their comfort. Started out on the V281, which oddly enough, the Teaks didn't sound great with (not so good bass or soundstaging). A surprise, since the V281 is my best amp and usually nails every headphone.
Then today I started listening to the Teaks on the LC. Surprise! It's a great combination. That nuanced, deep, suave bass is back; more soundstaging, and very nice treble.
Some might not like this pairing, since the upper treble is reduced in level and it's not a presentation for detail freaks. But the organic, relaxed quality, combined with deep bass, is pretty addictive.
The LC surprises me sometimes. It's counter-intuitive that a somewhat warm, bassy amp like the LC would "lock in" with a somewhat warrm, bassy headphone like the Teaks--but it does. It did the same w/the Fidelio X2s--a combination that would seem irrational, but man, did that sound good.

The LC is my "secret weapon" amp. Sometimes I hear things through it that just don't come through on the other amps.

BTW, re DACs, I'm a big fan of multi-bit, which to me, sound superior in every way to delta-sigma designs I've heard. My day-to-day DAC is the Audio GD NOS 19, which transformed the sound of my desktop audio system (headphones as well as powered monitors + sub). Also have an Audio GD DAC-19, which sounds pretty similar to the NOS variant, though w/a litlte more energy in upper midrange & treble (still less than many D-S designs).


----------



## Levanter

Quite a good explanation from Will @ MD regarding the MD x Cavalli Carbon issue. Some might still not be happy with the explanation, but at least they didn't keep quiet



> Thanks for joining the discussion! I think it's important to clarify a couple things related to your post (and similar posts from other folks in this discussion). If anything, this explanation will probably make you more frustrated, but at least that new frustration will be directed at the right source.
> You reference a two-part statement made by Alex. First, he wouldn't make any more liquid carbons. Second, he could never make anything so cheap again.
> Both of these statements are accurate and Alex has kept his word. The amplifier you bought was made in the United States by Cavalli Audio, a small audiophile company headed by Alex Cavalli. The amplifier had certain inputs, outputs, components, and internal power supply. The combination was called “Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon”.
> The Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon X is made by Massdrop, a larger company covering many enthusiast communities & manufacturing in China. The amplifier has the same sonic performance and specifications as the most recent Liquid Carbon revision because it shares the circuit design. However, the outputs are different, the inputs are different, the housing/form factor are different, and some components (notably the volume pot and power supply) are different.
> ...


----------



## Mediahound

Levanter said:


> Quite a good explanation from Will @ MD regarding the MD x Cavalli Carbon issue. Some might still not be happy with the explanation, but at least they didn't keep quiet



Link to that?


----------



## Levanter

Mediahound said:


> Link to that?



In the Cavalli Carbon MD comments page, one of the response towards someone raging.


----------



## doraymon

Has anyone tried the LC with the Holo Audio Spring DAC L3?


----------



## seamon (Sep 14, 2017)

Alright listening to the LCv2 with LCD 4:

1) Drives it sufficiently.
2) Same musical sound signature.
3) Bass is a little floppy/flappy.
4) Somewhat dark and reduces sibilance that is present in tracks.
5) Separation is that good and so the soundstage could be better too compared to similarly priced amps($800-$1000)
6) Massdrop should just disappear.

These are strictly my observations about the LC v2 and LCD 4 and nothing else.


----------



## sahmen

Maybe Will's explanation is leaving some people unsatisfied, because it is still a half-baked explanation which leaves some of the issues raised by even Massdrop clients unaddressed : for example, the staggered, drip, drip, drop manner in which the products licensed from Cavalli are being announced, which I personally find very manipulative, although I am sure Massdrop will defend that as a business method whose main purpose is to maximize Massdrop's own returns on their investment (i.e. the profits), which is a case they can legitimately make. Still, regardless of what one thinks, it is also true that many people do not enjoy being manipulated in this way, and a method that uses "bait and switch" and other little gimmicks to forge buying practices that are likely to generate unnecessary double dipping and buyers' remorse, will most likely end up making many people unhappy and disillusioned.  That is also very, very, human, but easily avoidable, with a little more transparency on the part of Massdrop.


----------



## DaemonSire

Levanter said:


> Quite a good explanation from Will @ MD regarding the MD x Cavalli Carbon issue. Some might still not be happy with the explanation, but at least they didn't keep quiet



Thanks for that quote.

Honestly, I can see both sides.  "Technically" Alex didn't break his word since he isn't making them.  But still, it is a slight to the community when Cavalli says they are making a cheaper product to give back to the support of the community and say it is a limited run.  Then just give the design to someone else to make it cheaper and sell it as their brand.  Will/Massdrop taking the blame for the anger people are feeling is honourable, but it isn't just on them.  Alex knew what he was doing and is just as culpable.  It isn't the fact that it has killed the resale value (which would bother me too), it's the fact that it was marketed as a limited edition, one-time only product as a thanks to the community.  Then you turn around, sell the design and give the finger back to the same community that supported you.

Now, if he had licensed out his Crimson, Gold, Fire, etc., I don't think people would really be that upset.  Those weren't 'limited edition' runs (they sort of were, but you know what I mean).  They were boutique products that had a small run and were eventually discontinued.  While Carbon was produced and targeted as a small batch and once it's gone, it's gone.  It isn't surprising when you then take that same design/sound, give it to someone else to make it for less than half the price, and not expect people to be upset.

*Now, on the other hand,* I completely get were Massdrop is coming from and support them in this project as well.  They are bringing quality goods to consumers at *very* reasonable prices.  And are hitting a much wider audience than simply the audiophile community.  They are driving the market forward and doing it at a price point that is great for us.  It is going to force (hopefully!) other manufacturers to take notice of the increasing price gouging that is going on.  When $800-1000 is the new "mid-fi" and we routinely see $2500+ headphones as the norm, it is getting a bit out of hand.  Now we have a manufacturer that is bucking that trend.  To prove my point, they could have easily charged $500-700 for the LCX and it still would have sold.  And actually piss off less people since it wouldn't be killing their resale value so much.  But they aren't.

Same thing with the 6XX, K7XX, THX00, etc.  The 6XX has killed the 650 value to some degree; K7XX the K712/K702 65th; THX00 the TH600/TH900.  *But*, to new-comers, it is *fantastic*.

Interestingly, the above collaborations (Sennheiser, AKG, Fostex, Grace), didn't trigger this response because they were never marketed as a limited edition, "when it's gone, it's gone" product like the original Carbon was.  That's the problem.  Hell, if the design was "copied" like Monoprice's M1060/M300, I don't think that would have bothered the community like this since it wasn't authorized.  It's the fact that it was intentionally done by Cavalli that has gotten everyone up in arms.


----------



## seamon

Let's consider another another argument for a sec.
Maybe there aren't that many LC/LC2 owners to begin with that Alex Cavalli though that selling his design(probably for a good deal of money) was worth it.
IDK if LC1 and LC2 serial numbers are combined but if they are there are just around 800 units out there.


----------



## runeight

Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.

The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.

We have had quite a few requests for more carbons. We are not making any more of this amp. The supply of transportable carbons that is in the marketplace is all that there will ever be unless the amp is knocked off by someone else, somewhere else.

The MD carbon X, in my mind, though it shares the same audio electronics, is a different amp. Hence my willingness to let MD make them available to a broader customer set than CA can.

The LC X is most definitely a desktop amp. Is it fairly large and intended to be part of a MD stack. It will be well made, have some weight, and definitely not easily transportable. It uses an external power brick (one more thing to carry around). And, as a small thing, it doesn't have the indicator lights that the original LC does. It also doesn't have the 3.5mm nor the RSA jacks. Some number of carbon users use both of these jacks at one time or another.

My conclusion was that the MD LC X was not really the same amp as the original LC and doesn't really compete with it in the marketplace. The new LC X simply makes a nice, but bigger, heavier desktop amp, available to others in a way that CA could not.

For those of you who have the original Carbon, the 800 or so units out there are all that CA will ever make.


----------



## doraymon

DaemonSire said:


> Thanks for that quote.
> 
> Honestly, I can see both sides.  "Technically" Alex didn't break his word since he isn't making them.  But still, it is a slight to the community when Cavalli says they are making a cheaper product to give back to the support of the community and say it is a limited run.  Then just give the design to someone else to make it cheaper and sell it as their brand.  Will/Massdrop taking the blame for the anger people are feeling is honourable, but it isn't just on them.  Alex knew what he was doing and is just as culpable.  It isn't the fact that it has killed the resale value (which would bother me too), it's the fact that it was marketed as a limited edition, one-time only product as a thanks to the community.  Then you turn around, sell the design and give the finger back to the same community that supported you.
> 
> ...



I agree with your point of view.
It's not a matter of legal interpretation of Mr. Cavalli's words because technically speaking he did not lie.
Most of the LC purchasers would have not expected the Massdrop move and this is not difficult to imagine.
If that's the style of the company than sorry, I'll look somewhere else for my next amp.
Without anger, unhappiness, negative vibe and bla bla bla....


----------



## Shawnb

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.
> 
> The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.
> 
> ...



Why go with the same name then? If you named it Liquid Copycat, or any other name,  and made clear it has the internals of the LC but it's a whole new amp. That would of negated a lot of the anger. Keeping the name led to a lot of confusion.


----------



## seamon

Shawnb said:


> Why go with the same name then? If you named it Liquid Copycat, or any other name,  and made clear it has the internals of the LC but it's a whole new amp. That would of negated a lot of the anger. Keeping the name led to a lot of confusion.


Probably marketing in favor of massdrop.
One of the main selling points of the LCX is that it's sonically same as Liquid Carbon. Massdrop wants people to know that through the name.


----------



## scanspeakman1

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.
> 
> The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.
> 
> ...


Hi Alex,


Despite what other people may think, I just want to thank for bringing us these great products. I am one of those carbon (v1) owners who uses it on overseas travels and loving it! It was already an amazing amp for an attractive price. Now for this new price even better! I will probably order a LC-X for the office. And I certainly hope you keep on bringing us these more affordable units (although a massdrop liquid gold-x special deluxe non-limited non-collectors edition would definitely have my attention as well!!). 

Scanspeakman


----------



## ilcg1 (Nov 17, 2017)

...


----------



## snip3r77

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.
> 
> The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.
> 
> ...


On point


----------



## maheeinfy

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.
> 
> The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.
> 
> ...



Since there is more space in the new unit, does it mean better layout of components and lower thermals ?


----------



## Odin412

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.
> 
> The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.
> 
> ...



I'm a very happy owner of the first generation Liquid Carbon and the Massdrop offering does not reduce my joy of owning and using the LC one bit. If anything, I'm happy that more people will have a chance to experience the legendary Cavalli sound at a lower price.


----------



## PopZeus

Only 800 units of the original LC were made? Personally, I'm happy that MD licensed the design for the LCX. I was looking for a more powerful amp, preferably with a smooth signature. I thought that was going to be the CTH but the balanced feature, RCA pass thru, and stackability of the LCX won out over the admittedly intriguing tube section. I do wish that MD had announced the suite all at once so I could just order the amp I wanted most and not have to cancel an order for a different device.

Either way, I'm now happy with this purchase as I have a balanced amp with some serious power. Now, do I really need a balanced DAC or would a SE line out from the Modi Multibit offer enough refinement?


----------



## Pharmaboy

DaemonSire said:


> Thanks for that quote.
> 
> Honestly, I can see both sides.  "Technically" Alex didn't break his word since he isn't making them.  But still, it is a slight to the community when Cavalli says they are making a cheaper product to give back to the support of the community and say it is a limited run.  Then just give the design to someone else to make it cheaper and sell it as their brand.  Will/Massdrop taking the blame for the anger people are feeling is honourable, but it isn't just on them.  Alex knew what he was doing and is just as culpable.  It isn't the fact that it has killed the resale value (which would bother me too), it's the fact that it was marketed as a limited edition, one-time only product as a thanks to the community.  Then you turn around, sell the design and give the finger back to the same community that supported you.
> 
> ...



Terrific post IMO--balanced & insightful.

Speaking only for my own experience, I've been "chased by Massdrop" for over a year--ie, they repeatedly influence/intervene in products I seek to sell on a used basis, here and on Audiogon. It's happened 3 times:

1st it was an AKG K553 headphone I'd purchased new (this was well before I'd even heard of Massdrop). It was mint condition, rarely used, and I had it for sale @ the usual ~80% of retail price I paid, including shipping w/in CONUS + Paypal. A month or so after I listed it, suddenly Massdrop was offering the K553s for 75% of what I'd paid for mine. I promptly discounted my price to ~65% of what I'd paid, and they sold. It was an odd experience, discovering that the retail channel for this thing I owned had suddenly greatly expanded.
2nd was the Fostex TX00 Mahogany headphone: I purchased them from Massdrop (which I had joined and started learning from). I couldn't live with the treble of these 'phones, which I barely used, after burnin. So once again I listed them for a discount (~85% of what I'd paid, incl. shipping & Paypal). Quickly thereafter, Massdrop offered a new drop of these same headphones. Another learning experience--I was new to Massdrop & didn't realize how often/quickly they "come back to the well" w/the same drops. Oh, well; took more money off mine as they market was flooded w/new TX00s...sold mine for a little less than planned.
3rd time was late last year when I picked up a new Status Audio CB-1 headphone from their website. There was a seasonal discount and I felt fine w/what I paid. Unfortunately I discovered that this rather nice pair of headphones was 100% duplicative (sonically) to 2-3 other headphones I already owned. So I listed this barely used beyond burn-in product for sale. A month or two later--right when I started getting inquiries about the CB-1s, suddenly a drop for the CB-1s. By now very experienced w/this syndrome, I lowered my price to where it needed to be & sold my pair.

4th time is this LCX drop, again unexpected--who would predict Cavalli would license the LC design to Massdrop? It's a first, as far as I know. I am the very happy owner of an LC v2.0 (from the 3rd and final offering on Cavalli's website), and I actually have no plans to sell. But now I know if I ever do sell, it'll be for a considerably lower price that has prevailed in the used market for KCs in recent years.
Maybe I should be aggravated about all this, but it's hard to see it as anything but yet another market "moving away from me" at unexpected speed. It happens with all audio equipment, in one way or other; computers; cars; household appliances; you name it.

I long ago realized a key reality about buying and selling audio gear: namely, if you think you can recover all your costs when selling something (especially if that item was purchased new, not used)--you're kidding yourself. Better to regard any money "lost" on a given transaction as the rental fee for that item, any pleasure you had in using it, and any of the things you learned about audio from it.


----------



## KimbaWLion

I was the person that Will responded to. I was not raging as my post was very polite etc., just voicing my issues and what not. To me raging is something else entirely.
 But I feel most understand where I was/am coming from.
There is always a secondary market for things and a lot always try to upgrade, to see something I bought for $799 go down to $299 that hurts..
Even the HD650 to the HD6XX is not the same. 

A lot of my gear was bought 2nd hand and my choice of the LC 2.0 was based partly on the fact I would NEVER be able or would want to spend money
on another Cavalli Amp just due to cost for one of the better ones. This was my once shot to own one at a price I could afford. The secondary market is secondary on my mind 
but it is something to think about it too as I said above.  There is no real rage, just a little hurt that I thought i was part something really special and is not going to be the case the
anymore. They can rephrase and use word play all they like but it does not change a lot. I enjoy my Carbon there is no doubt, I am also all for deals. But to see it for THAT much less?
Now that still hurts...


----------



## zerogorgor (Sep 14, 2017)

I think it will be equally "controversial" if the Massdrop version is named otherwise while remarking it is sonically identical to Liquid Carbon. I'd feel betrayed had it been done this way.

I appreciate that Alex has provided his explanation, but I am afraid I am not particularly in favour of perceiving Liquid Carbon and Carbon X as distinctively different products due to the differences in transportability and jacks. Considering that the first run Liquid Carbon was said to be "offered at an outrageously discount" and there had already been a final run, launching the Carbon X does not look 100% agreeable to me. I own a first run Liquid Carbon, and I wouldn't say I find the Carbon X launch a pleasant surprise. This will very likely deter me from any future direct purchase.

I bought my Liquid Carbon to give the Cavalli house sound a try, and did intend to bring it along with me when I travel as I travel very frequently. I am still happy to have paid $599 for this level of quality, and I think it has a commendable cost/performance ratio. I think the Liquid Carbon demonstrates something interesting about the Cavalli sound, but it is not impressive enough for me to love the amplifier per se. For this reason, I don't travel with it and has been left idle. To me, the Liquid Carbon serves as a decent first bite of the Cavalli sound, but probably not a good enough first bite that could tempt me to buy the more models that are a few times more expensive.

To me, this Liquid Carbon/Carbon X episode shows that it is possible for Cavalli Audio to go beyond offering old products at the said "outrageously discounted prices", and I would be very tempted to see the more expensive models offered at a similar discount.


----------



## Zachik

First, I would like to thank @runeight Alex for his very insightful and to the point post from earlier today. 
Let me offer the perspective of a person from the other side of this debate:
I am NOT a LC owner, but VERY recently decided I want to buy one. Speak of perfect timing... In fact, my search through the FS section started just a couple days before MD's pre-announcement of the LCX.
Also, I just joined the CTH drop last month.

Let me break it down to Cavalli's strategy / choice, and MD's marketing "ploy":

Cavalli: as Alex explained, very limited quantity was made. Someone like me who missed out can only buy used. Finding used is not easy - there are very few in the FS section, and ever fewer still under warranty. Due to volume pot and other reported issues - buyer takes some risk here! So, Alex decided to license it to MD. I have seen some people bash him for that, and blame him for being greedy. Come on guys, Alex has a great design, no intention to build more himself, so cooperating with someone like MD is a great and legit way to go about it. And don't you agree he deserves to be paid for his design?! As for using the Cavalli and Liquid Carbon names, someone posted he would not have been angry if different name was used. REALLY?!?! give me a break. I personally would way prefer to buy from MD than Chinese company that shamelessly steal the Cavalli design (and obviously pays NO royalties or license fees). And since I decided to keep my CTH - such nice stacking is great   The only thing I would have changed (for both CTH and LCX) is having a built-in power supplies! Chassis is much bigger than LC, so plenty room for the power supply (I hate power bricks...)
MassDrop: here, I am not as positive! @CEE TEE I hope you're listening and learning... I am sure MD did not anticipate the big uproar from CTH buyers. I am personally not one of them, since I want both CTH and LCX, but I think MD should have handled it differently! First, CTH and SDAC announced. Then, after drop is closed - they announce the combo CTH+SDAC. And then - LCX. If I were wearing CEE TEE's hat - I would announce in a big campaign ALL 4 products at the same time, and let us make an informed decision. I do not believe it would have hurt their sales, and the reputation damage is not worth extra few $$.  
For current LC owners:
If you were planning on selling - then yeah, you're screwed. No point in sugar coating it...
But, if you use and enjoy it - why do you care there is a cheaper alternative that came out 6 months or more after you got your amp and started enjoying it? with the MD wait, you'll have a 1+ year head-start on your daily enjoyment 

BTW, personally I am still on the fence between buying a used LCv2 with some warranty still left, or get the MD LCX. I do not like the external power brick, and the 6 months wait, but do not like to pay 2x the price just because I am impatient...


----------



## maheeinfy

Zachik said:


> First, I would like to thank @runeight
> But, if you use and enjoy it - why do you care there is a cheaper alternative that came out 6 months or more after you got your amp and started enjoying it? with the MD wait, you'll have a 1+ year head-start on your daily enjoyment


Remember everyone..Life has limited number of weeks. So if you enjoyed your amp for ~25 more weeks than others, then its worth it


----------



## fiascogarcia

It would be interesting to see the posts on this thread if the Massdrop LC turns out not to sound like the Cavalli model!


----------



## Mentis

runeight said:


> Hello gents. I see that there is some discussion about the new MD Carbon X. I'd like to give you my reasoning about this product. I know that some of you might agree and some may not.
> 
> The original LC was specifically designed as a compact, transportable, but fairly powerful amp. It is lightweight with a universal PS and totally self-contained. It can be moved around anywhere with the right power cord. Some small number of carbon owners do in fact take their carbons on overseas trips. Some just pack them up as needed. Most owners, however, based on responses to us do tend to use the carbon as mostly an easily movable desktop amp.
> 
> ...



Thanks Alex for getting back to us about the LCX. Would you know if MD will drop Liquid Carbon or Liquid Gold at one point? We'd like to get our hands on those that'd be great, it'll be a good upgrade from LC1 or LC2. Thanks again,


----------



## buldogge

fiascogarcia said:


> It would be interesting to see the posts on this thread if the Massdrop LC turns out not to sound like the Cavalli model!



Of course many people buying the LCX (myself included) will never have heard a V1 or V2 LC, would not be able to establish a frame of reference, and would therefore only be trusting the opinion/review of someone else...if a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is there to hear it, does it still make a noise?  

-Mark in St. Louis


----------



## abvolt

I'm sure excited about getting the liquid carbon at that price, ordered mine on the first day about 100 before me nice, hopefully this is a decent sounding ss amp I've been wanting one for some time now..enjoy


----------



## doctorjazz

Anyone remember the warranty details on v1 and v2 of the Cavalli in house versions? I seem to recall v1 had a better one, was it transferable? Lifetime? 
Thanks (seeing if there is any benefit to buyers who bought from Cavalli).


----------



## snip3r77

Is really laid back? I would like a tinge of warmness to tame my lcd X?


----------



## rollinbr (Sep 17, 2017)

doctorjazz said:


> Anyone remember the warranty details on v1 and v2 of the Cavalli in house versions? I seem to recall v1 had a better one, was it transferable? Lifetime?
> Thanks (seeing if there is any benefit to buyers who bought from Cavalli).



As I recall the LC V1 has lifetime warranty and is transferable. The LC V2 had a 1 year warranty. Not sure if it was transferable but I would imagine it is. I have a LC V1 #26.

I would expect the LC V1 to retain most of it's value due to lifetime warranty! At least as long as Cavalli Audio is in business anyway!


----------



## doctorjazz

That's what I remember, thanks!


----------



## Shawnb

doctorjazz said:


> Anyone remember the warranty details on v1 and v2 of the Cavalli in house versions? I seem to recall v1 had a better one, was it transferable? Lifetime?
> Thanks (seeing if there is any benefit to buyers who bought from Cavalli).



We should have lifetime for v1


----------



## maheeinfy

So V2 was the worst deal of the three
V1 vs V2 vs LCX


----------



## seamon

maheeinfy said:


> So V2 was the worst deal of the three
> V1 vs V2 vs LCX


V2 ordered after the pre-order period was over was the worst deal.

V1 - $600, issues with volume pot and SE connection was sub-par.
V2 pre-order - Above issues solved plus free high end power cord(Audioquest NRG X3).
V2(after pre-order) - Power cord not offered + issues solved.
LCX - Can't experiment with Power Cords due to external brick but at this price range, the prospective buyer is probably not interested in experimenting with power cords anyway.


----------



## Pharmaboy

snip3r77 said:


> Is really laid back? I would like a tinge of warmness to tame my lcd X?



The big "if" here is whether the LC-X really sounds identical to a Cavalli-manufactured Liquid Carbon.

Assuming it does--I own & really love the LC v2.0, and can assure you that it really has a tinge of warmth. It is also somewhat laid back--not in the sense of lacking dynamics, but in the sense of never pushing hard-edged transients through your brain like a big power drill. 

While being somewhat warm and organic sounding, this amp has serious balls & the 2nd best bass I've ever heard from an amp (the best is from the V281, which costs nearly 3X what the LC does). 

I've also noticed that the LC has the unusual characteristic of being able to "lock in" with certain headphones, and not ones you might expect. I've gotten amazing sound out of my LC on 2 somwhat warm-sounding headphones around, the Fidelio X2s and the E-Mu Teaks. This is interesting because on paper, at least, the LC should not sound good with these phones. But it obviously does.


----------



## bronzboy

I've been following this discussion about the LCX and the impact on the value of the LC1 & LC2.  Interesting, for sure, but I'm going to keep my LC2.  Paired with Elear HP's I have absolutely no complaints.  I agree with others about the LC's ability to "lock in" and the amp is somewhat warm, which makes for long listening sessions without fatigue, and totally knows how to swing.  As I said, the LC2 is a keeper for me, and I don't care what it's worth on the re-sale market.  But, I get the slight many are feeling.


----------



## PopZeus

Pharmaboy said:


> The big "if" here is whether the LC-X really sounds identical to a Cavalli-manufactured Liquid Carbon.
> 
> Assuming it does--I own & really love the LC v2.0, and can assure you that it really has a tinge of warmth. It is also somewhat laid back--not in the sense of lacking dynamics, but in the sense of never pushing hard-edged transients through your brain like a big power drill.
> 
> ...



Oh I'm really stoked that I'm on this drop as I own all both those headphones as well as a brand new pair of Elears (which are apparently also quite well-matched to the LCX).


----------



## kencheungkk (Sep 19, 2017)

https://www.facebook.com/chordelect...747222358641/1161255637307789/?type=3&theater

Just wondering what's happen if Cavalli Audio announce something like Chord Electronics declared MassDrop Mojo was not an authorized product after the drop.


----------



## fiascogarcia

kencheungkk said:


> https://www.facebook.com/chordelect...747222358641/1161255637307789/?type=3&theater
> 
> Just wondering what's happen if Cavalli Audio announce something like Chord Electronics declared MassDrop Mojo was not an authorized product after the drop.


I think whether they did that or not would not make a difference.  Massdrop is providing the warranty, and I seriously doubt Cavalli will touch those units if something goes wrong with them.


----------



## abvolt

That would not be good is my guess, I was just looking at the mojo on massdrop, and am one who purchased the cavalli also..


----------



## buldogge

fiascogarcia said:


> I think whether they did that or not would not make a difference.  Massdrop is providing the warranty, and I seriously doubt Cavalli will touch those units if something goes wrong with them.



Exactly...Who cares...Massdrop is the "manufacturer" and is underwriting the warranty...any concerns/issues would be handled thru them.

If you don't trust Massdrop, well, thats a different matter.

-Mark in St. Louis


----------



## Mediahound (Sep 19, 2017)

I doubt Massdrop would even repair it if it broke. They probably would just replace it or if they had none, offer you a refund or something if still under the 1 year warranty. I doubt they actually have the resources to repair things. They just contract with a factory to build the amps.


----------



## thebkt

kencheungkk said:


> https://www.facebook.com/chordelect...747222358641/1161255637307789/?type=3&theater
> 
> Just wondering what's happen if Cavalli Audio announce something like Chord Electronics declared MassDrop Mojo was not an authorized product after the drop.


 this was covered earlier in this thread and/or on the LCX thread.  There's nothing shady about the drop. It's handled by Massdrop using cavalli's design.


----------



## runeight

kencheungkk said:


> https://www.facebook.com/chordelect...747222358641/1161255637307789/?type=3&theater
> 
> Just wondering what's happen if Cavalli Audio announce something like Chord Electronics declared MassDrop Mojo was not an authorized product after the drop.



I certainly cannot speak in any way regarding the Mojo, but I can say that MD is fully licensed to offer the CA products they are currently offering. The CTH has been in development for quite some time and I have worked closely with the MD teams to make it happen.


----------



## musiclvr (Sep 20, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> I felt the LCD X is a bit bright at times. If this combo is a bit warm, it would be able to tame the highs a bit. Does it ?
> 
> Also how is the bass (slam) ?
> 
> Thanks



There is gobs of precise and lightning fast slam in the bass. I am totally content there. The treble presentation is silky and can be forward in the upper mids but not sibilant. If I ever want a bit more treble bias I reach for my Grado GS2KE's. The LCD-X and LC combo is just right for me. Now it's time to get my Sine DX's balanced to tap on their full potential with the LC as they are smooth as butter but with heft and dynamism!


----------



## claud W

Joined the LC V2 owners today. Bought a lightly used one for $550 on our Sale forum. Never thought much about the warranty. That would tend to help the resale. I have no plans to do so with mine. Hooked it up and let it warm up while I looked over the online manual. Plugged in my Ether flows with a single ended Wywires Red cord and let her rip listening to Dianna Krall on iTunes Apple Lossless. It is a great amp. Beats the crap out of my Vali 2 even with a nice NOS 6SN7.


----------



## kellte2

Well, it appears as though my LC 2.0 is going to need to visit the repair shop for the second time. Thankfully, I'm still within the warranty period.

Recently, powering on the amp in high gain has caused a relatively noisy "pop" in the headphones. Additionally, adjusting the pot now produces static/noise in the left channel. I assume the pot has gone bad, but I'm not sure about the popping noise. Also, the sound is weak and there is a channel imbalance (this is basically what happened to the amp back in March/April at around 3 weeks of ownership).

Second time in the shop during the warranty. Hope these massdrop units have a better build quality. "High end" gear should not fail twice in a year.  Terribly disappointed.


----------



## indrakula

kellte2 said:


> Well, it appears as though my LC 2.0 is going to need to visit the repair shop for the second time. Thankfully, I'm still within the warranty period.
> 
> Recently, powering on the amp in high gain has caused a relatively noisy "pop" in the headphones. Additionally, adjusting the pot now produces static/noise in the left channel. I assume the pot has gone bad, but I'm not sure about the popping noise. Also, the sound is weak and there is a channel imbalance (this is basically what happened to the amp back in March/April at around 3 weeks of ownership).
> 
> Second time in the shop during the warranty. Hope these massdrop units have a better build quality. "High end" gear should not fail twice in a year.  Terribly disappointed.



I am also a LC V2 owner since Nov 2016 and had to send back twice for repair. First time it was a volume pot issue, and second time it was a defective chip which was generating hiss sound. But i am happy with their customer service and response time.


----------



## Zachik

kellte2 said:


> Well, it appears as though my LC 2.0 is going to need to visit the repair shop for the second time. Thankfully, I'm still within the warranty period.
> 
> Recently, powering on the amp in high gain has caused a relatively noisy "pop" in the headphones. Additionally, adjusting the pot now produces static/noise in the left channel. I assume the pot has gone bad, but I'm not sure about the popping noise. Also, the sound is weak and there is a channel imbalance (this is basically what happened to the amp back in March/April at around 3 weeks of ownership).
> 
> Second time in the shop during the warranty. Hope these massdrop units have a better build quality. "High end" gear should not fail twice in a year.  Terribly disappointed.





indrakula said:


> I am also a LC V2 owner since Nov 2016 and had to send back twice for repair. First time it was a volume pot issue, and second time it was a defective chip which was generating hiss sound. But i am happy with their customer service and response time.



I was on the fence in the last couple weeks - LC 2.0 or LCX? Which should I get?
After reading about some quality related issues with the LC 2.0 (and LC 1.0), and the above 2 quotes that reaffirm those voices - I joined the LCX drop! 
Now.... The looooooong wait....


----------



## musiclvr

1) I sent in my LCv1(now sold) due to some cosmetic issues. It was about a two week turnaround time for repair.

2) I sent in my 1st LCv2 (1st Edition) due to the back plate not being joined correctly to the chassis. I was sent another amp immediately and they let me return to them the defective one at my convenience.

3) I sent in the 2nd LCv2 due to clipping and Right channel distortion. Again, two week turnaround.

Through all this Cavalli Audio was nothing but stellar with addressing and correcting any issues I had with my new Cavalli gear in an acceptable time frame.

Such is that state of boutique audiophile gear I guess. I even had my Chord Mojo present with issues two weeks after purchase. I am keen on researching a company's track record for customer service before purchasing. Cavalli is one of the greats out there for both their house sound and customer service.


----------



## seamon

Lmao it'd be a real shame if the Massdrop produced LCs do end up having better QC


----------



## musiclvr

seamon said:


> Lmao it'd be a real shame if the Massdrop produced LCs do end up having better QC


Let's hope they do.


----------



## seamon

I just noticed, just 387 amps have been sold on massdrop, this is like beyond low


----------



## indrakula

Zachik said:


> I was on the fence in the last couple weeks - LC 2.0 or LCX? Which should I get?
> After reading about some quality related issues with the LC 2.0 (and LC 1.0), and the above 2 quotes that reaffirm those voices - I joined the LCX drop!
> Now.... The looooooong wait....


I would advise wait for LCX reviews and buy. LC2 is a very good amp but there are few issues with volume pot/other parts and i dont use my LC2 that often still have to sent it back for repair two times already.
I am still happy with the sound quality of LC2 but worried what happens if there is a defect after 1 year warranty ?


----------



## seamon

indrakula said:


> I am still happy with the sound quality of LC2 but worried what happens if there is a defect after 1 year warranty ?


Simple, you pay for repairs


----------



## indrakula (Sep 23, 2017)

seamon said:


> Simple, you pay for repairs



Hmmmmm, let us see. But i do have an alternative))). Usually i use LC2 as a portable unit when i am away form my base location or travelling. My home setup is Luxman DAC DA-250 + Schitt Jot + Hifiman HE 1000 V2. I think this is my end game setup...  I use Schitt Jot purely as a balanced amp via XLR 4 pin, i never have any issues with Schitt Jot and it has won my confidence in terms of Defect free and reliable product.


----------



## bronzboy

indrakula said:


> Hmmmmm, let us see. But i do have an alternative))). Usually i use LC2 as a portable unit when i am away form my base location or travelling. My home setup is Luxman DAC DA-250 + Schitt Jot + Hifiman HE 1000 V2. I think this is my end game setup... I use Schitt Jot purely as a balanced amp via XLR 4 pin, i never have any issues with Schitt Jot and it has won my confidence in terms of Defect free and reliable product.


For what it's worth, I had problems with a Schiit Multibit Bifrost.  It was causing strange balance problems.  Schiit send me a new DAC as I was sending them the bad one.  Great customer service.


----------



## AladdinSane

We have more lights at least! Still, for what we paid...


----------



## maheeinfy

AladdinSane said:


> We have more lights at least! Still, for what we paid...


Yayy!


----------



## wasupdog

seamon said:


> I just noticed, just 387 amps have been sold on massdrop, this is like beyond low



i think this too.  i think sales were cannibalized by the CTH coming before it with the non-cancellation policy after the drop ends.


----------



## Zachik

wasupdog said:


> i think this too.  i think sales were cannibalized by the CTH coming before it with the non-cancellation policy after the drop ends.


Sales also cannibalized by people waiting for LCX+SDAC combo which coming up soon (pre-announced by CEE TEE).


----------



## upsguys88

Zachik said:


> Sales also cannibalized by people waiting for LCX+SDAC combo which coming up soon (pre-announced by CEE TEE).


There is an lcx-Sdac coming out?


----------



## Zachik

upsguys88 said:


> There is an lcx-Sdac coming out?


Yes! see:
https://www.massdrop.com/talk/2363/audiophile-custom-products-dac-amp-update-9-18-2017


----------



## sahmen

I am sitting this one out and waiting for a Liquid Crimson X or Liquid Gold X, that is if Massdrop will ever consider dropping either one of those. They cannot guarantee that as yet, but if they do, I shall be ready.


----------



## Zachik

sahmen said:


> I am sitting this one out and waiting for a Liquid Crimson X or Liquid Gold X, that is if Massdrop will ever consider dropping either one of those. They cannot guarantee that as yet, but if they do, I shall be ready.


I hope you're very patient... 
CEE TEE wrote it is NOT going to be in 2017 (if ever), so best case scenario would be:
Drop in early 2018, delivery 5-6 months later in summer of 2018. 
That is IMHO the soonest (assuming it even happens).


----------



## seamon

Lol I'll wait 2 years for a sub $1k Liquid Crimson or Gold


----------



## sahmen (Sep 23, 2017)

Zachik said:


> I hope you're very patient...
> CEE TEE wrote it is NOT going to be in 2017 (if ever), so best case scenario would be:
> Drop in early 2018, delivery 5-6 months later in summer of 2018.
> That is IMHO the soonest (assuming it even happens).



I already have the Liquid Carbon v.1, which performs flawlessly, so I am not really in a rush to get any of the present Massdrop Cavalli offerings.  I got in on the CTH because I was curious about tube sound, but I cancelled, because it was clear to me that there were superior ways to get a taste of that tube sound, and most importantly, I did it because I  managed to be honest with myself regarding the utter impulsiveness of the CTH buy, which was motivated simply by the price, although I had vowed, long before that, not to buy any audio related gear on the strength of price alone... I have more Solid State head-amps now than I actually need, so I should really not be driven to buy any other amp simply because of impatience.  This is not a diss on the quality of the CTH amp, which I have never heard before. I also enjoy buying inexpensive gear, as long as the pricing does not compromise the quality I am looking for.  I am simply saying that I have earned the right to insist on a certain standard of quality when it comes to headamps in general, and Cavalli amps in particular

Now given that I already have the LC v1, if I get another Cavalli amp, it will have to be either the Crimson or the Lau. Whether it happens through Massdrop or the used market is not very important. Either way, I am in no rush, and canceling the Massdrop CTH order has also given me some clarity and resolve about this matter.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sahmen said:


> I already have the Liquid Carbon v.1, which performs flawlessly, so I am not really in a rush to get any of the present Massdrop Cavalli offerings.  I got in on the CTH because I was curious about tube sound, but I cancelled, because it was clear to me that there were superior ways to do that, and most importantly, I did it because I  managed to be honest with myself regarding the utter impulsiveness of the CTH buy, which was motivated simply by the price, although I had vowed, long before that, not to buy any audio related gear on the strength of price alone... I have more Solid State head-amps now than I actually need, so I should really not be driven to buy any other amp simply because of impatience.  This is not a diss on the quality of the CTH amp, which I have never heard before. I also enjoy buying inexpensive gear, as long as the pricing does not compromise the quality I am looking for.  I am simply saying that I have earned the right to insist on a certain standard of quality when it comes to headamps in general, and Cavalli amps in particular
> 
> Now given that I already have the LC v1, if I get another Cavalli amp, it will have to be either the Crimson or the Lau. Whether it happens through Massdrop or the used market is not very important. Either way, I am in no rush, and canceling the Massdrop CTH order also given me clarity and resolve about this matter.



This post is very insightful IMO--it addresses the sometimes irrational impulsivity of this hobby. I, too, have an LC (v2 purchased from Cavalli at the tail end of the final offering). It works flawlessly & I'm crazy about the amp. I also have 4 other SS amps of varying pedigrees, from the fun & very functional Matrix M Stage HPA-1 (with opamp upgrade) all the way up the endgame Violectric V281. I like all these amps; each is quite different.

Despite all that, I was sorely tempted to push the "Join Drop" button on the CTH drop. Why? Because none of my amps are tube or hybrid, so I'm curious about that; because I so appreciate the Cavalli "house sound"; and frankly, because I'm an amp 'ho. I have more amps than headphones; they fascinate me. I especially like amp/preamps, but I digress.

Anyway, it's interesting to see another Head-Fi'er articulate the temptation these serial Massdrop Cavalli drops can offer...and the resolve it takes to resist them in favor of a more rational, upgrade approach.


----------



## abvolt

You should have a tube amp they are so smooth & deep and magical sounding, it's thrilling when one plugs in a 1930,40 or 50's tube and the sound, simply amazing, plus the sq can change so dramatically with different tubes, I know tube amps aren't as accurate or powerful as some ss amps, but they are imo well worth owning. I also ordered the LCX hopefully it's got the Cavalli sound..enjoy


----------



## Pharmaboy

abvolt said:


> You should have a tube amp they are so smooth & deep and magical sounding, it's thrilling when one plugs in a 1930,40 or 50's tube and the sound, simply amazing, plus the sq can change so dramatically with different tubes, I know tube amps aren't as accurate or powerful as some ss amps, but they are imo well worth owning. I also ordered the LCX hopefully it's got the Cavalli sound..enjoy



Well, you're 100% correct. The only problem is that space on my desktop & associated space is so limited. that to fit a tube amp would mean selling something else--plus more woodworking to make another platform (not ready to sell any of my amps just yet).

I should have clarified--while I have no tube amp experience in headphone/desktop audio, I have a lot of experience w/tubes in big living room/audiophile systems. At one time had an all-tube preamp + a 100wpc tube amplifiers that could be switched from pentode-to-triode (w/a big SS amp on the subs). That tube sound is straight from heaven...nothing else like it.


----------



## upsguys88

Pharmaboy said:


> Well, you're 100% correct. The only problem is that space on my desktop & associated space is so limited. that to fit a tube amp would mean selling something else--plus more woodworking to make another platform (not ready to sell any of my amps just yet).
> 
> I should have clarified--while I have no tube amp experience in headphone/desktop audio, I have a lot of experience w/tubes in big living room/audiophile systems. At one time had an all-tube preamp + a 100wpc tube amplifiers that could be switched from pentode-to-triode (w/a big SS amp on the subs). That tube sound is straight from heaven...nothing else like it.



You should look for a second hand alo pan am tube amp.
https://www.cnet.com/news/giant-killer-alos-tiny-pan-am-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## Mentis

Zachik said:


> Sales also cannibalized by people waiting for LCX+SDAC combo which coming up soon (pre-announced by CEE TEE).


And cannibalize from him mentioning the possibility of Liquid Crimson X next year


----------



## doctorjazz

What' this about a Massdrop Crimson or Gold? Is there any basis in reality for these posts?


----------



## mandrake50 (Sep 24, 2017)

At this time it is just wishful thinking. I am wishing myself, but have not read anything to support those hopes.
So as of now it is purely unsubstantiated rumor. A poster above quoted Massdrop's CEE TEE as saying  it would definitely not happen in 2017. But apparently no more than that.

EDIT:
https://www.massdrop.com/talk/2363/audiophile-custom-products-dac-amp-update-9-18-2017

Mentions no Crimson in 2017, does not even mention the Liquid Gold.


----------



## abvolt

I don't know if anyone here has an answer to why the LCX has a  ship date of 2-28-18, does Massdrop even have someone in place to build these amps, It just seems a little weird to have that long of a ship date. Ordered mine but concerned & also how much input does Cavalli audio really have in this amp they seem to be a little silent here, just questions I guess if it's junk it's only 3 bills worth of junk at least..enjoy


----------



## Ken G

abvolt said:


> I don't know if anyone here has an answer to why the LCX has a  ship date of 2-28-18, does Massdrop even have someone in place to build these amps, It just seems a little weird to have that long of a ship date. Ordered mine but concerned & also how much input does Cavalli audio really have in this amp they seem to be a little silent here, just questions I guess if it's junk it's only 3 bills worth of junk at least..enjoy


Hi abvolt, some answers to your questions below:
1. Massdrop usually operates like this with newly introduced gear that THEY manufacture.  They will typically create prototypes for review, take bulk orders and then manufacture the items which sometimes takes upwards of 6 months (I believe some of the Hifiman HPs and the Noble X had similar wait times).
2. Massdrop wouldn’t be manufacturing and using the Cavelli name if they didn’t license the technology.  Alex Cavelli had a post on this forum several weeks ago about the Amp and how it differs from the original iterations but I don’t think he disputed that the LCX shares the same topology like the Massdrop guys said. 
3. While I can’t speak for others, I’ve purchased quite a few items from Massdrop (including some originals) and they definitely weren’t junk. I’ve never had a bad experience service or sound wise but others may differ. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Ken G

In addition, the link below explains all of the Massdrop Amps in their current manufacturing pipeline and ther timeline to get their orders to their factories. This might give you a bit more color on the long wait time. 

https://www.massdrop.com/talk/2363/audiophile-custom-products-dac-amp-update-9-18-2017


----------



## mandrake50

And don't forget. This way of doing things allows Massdrop to have buyers finance things like final development, parts procurement and still pay for the initial batch from the collected funds. In many ways this is like crowd funding.
A bit less risky because we are dealing with a company that has been around for a while and has a decent track record of actually producing purchased items, but nonetheless awfully close to the crowd funding model.


----------



## snip3r77

Coming from geek pulse infinity and audeze lcd x.

At the price of $299 for the massdrop , is this a significant upgrade or sidegrade from the geek amp? Running balanced . Looking for an amp to provide some warmth and betters the whole spectrum too . Thanks.

What about mjolnir 2 ? 

Thanks


----------



## abvolt

For me it's the Cavelli name & sound that what i'm looking for and for only 3 bills it's worth the gamble to see if it's so Lol..enjoy


----------



## snip3r77

abvolt said:


> For me it's the Cavelli name & sound that what i'm looking for and for only 3 bills it's worth the gamble to see if it's so Lol..enjoy



OK I'd MTFU on with the 3 bills


----------



## Pharmaboy

snip3r77 said:


> Coming from geek pulse infinity and audeze lcd x.
> 
> At the price of $299 for the massdrop , is this a significant upgrade or sidegrade from the geek amp? Running balanced . Looking for an amp to provide some warmth and betters the whole spectrum too . Thanks.
> 
> ...



Based on everything I read, your Audeze LCD-X is a big-time, endgame planar design. People describe it as having a lot of bass & sub-bass and musical, non-fatiguing treble, compared to other Audeze upscale designs.

I have the Liquid Carbon, purchased direct from Cavalli ~6 months ago (it's v2.0, the same design as the new Massdrop re-license of the LC). I love the sound of this amp: it's clearly voiced on the warm side of neutral, but also has really excellent bass (quality, depth, control, "slam") and way above average soundstaging. They say it's "tube-like," but what it really is, is a SS design voiced for an organic, flowing, musical sound, with all the foundation/lower range weight and non-fatiguing treble transients you hear in live music...a very ear-friendly, humane SS sound IMO.

I've been repeatedly surprised at how my LC will "lock in" with headphones that are also warm, bassy, with good soundstaging. You'd think the synergy between similar-sounding amp & headphones would be too much--too warm, too bassy, and so on. But that's not what happens at all. I got the best sound ever out of my Fidelio X2s on the LC; and very fine sound out of the E-Mu Teaks on it recently.

It's true that your Geek Pulse has twice the power of the LC, but that may or may not really matter. The LC handles my power-hungry planar (ZMF Ori) with ease--more than enough juice, plus the sound is really excellent.

Hard to predict these things, but I'm betting that for just $300, you might hit it right out of the park by putting the Massdrop LC together with the Audeze LCD-X.


----------



## abvolt

snip3r77 said:


> OK I'd MTFU on with the 3 bills



Does that upset you, why that's a shame, too bad isn't it, I'll call it as I choose..


----------



## snip3r77

abvolt said:


> Does that upset you, why that's a shame, too bad isn't it, I'll call it as I choose..


No sadness. Nike


----------



## claud W

I could have bought into the MassDrop LC-X, but at that price, I'm betting it will not be the equal of a real Cavalli LC or LC 2.0. Has anyone seen a comparison review??? I guess not yet. I am very happy with the original product. So happy, that I am looking for a used Liquid Gold or Glass.


----------



## kellte2

kellte2 said:


> Well, it appears as though my LC 2.0 is going to need to visit the repair shop for the second time. Thankfully, I'm still within the warranty period.
> 
> Recently, powering on the amp in high gain has caused a relatively noisy "pop" in the headphones. Additionally, adjusting the pot now produces static/noise in the left channel. I assume the pot has gone bad, but I'm not sure about the popping noise. Also, the sound is weak and there is a channel imbalance (this is basically what happened to the amp back in March/April at around 3 weeks of ownership).
> 
> Second time in the shop during the warranty. Hope these massdrop units have a better build quality. "High end" gear should not fail twice in a year.  Terribly disappointed.



So an update: 

Repair was completed and item is en route to me.  Same issue as I had in March; the single-ended input chip failed.  Given that the same part shot out twice in a year, I am somewhat concerned about the longevity of my amp, but I guess I have no recourse other than to keep my finger crossed.  (it is a v2.0 with an expiring warranty as of November 2017)


----------



## indrakula

kellte2 said:


> So an update:
> 
> Repair was completed and item is en route to me.  Same issue as I had in March; the single-ended input chip failed.  Given that the same part shot out twice in a year, I am somewhat concerned about the longevity of my amp, but I guess I have no recourse other than to keep my finger crossed.  (it is a v2.0 with an expiring warranty as of November 2017)


Same here, sent my V2 version twice and warranty expires in Nov 2017.


----------



## kellte2

indrakula said:


> Same here, sent my V2 version twice and warranty expires in Nov 2017.



When did you send it in last? I’m sure the part will fail again. This is ridiculous.


----------



## indrakula

kellte2 said:


> When did you send it in last? I’m sure the part will fail again. This is ridiculous.


August 2017


----------



## wirefriend

Is is safe to connect DX200 DAP's single-ended "out" to Cavalli LC's balanced "in" (with 3.5 TRS to 2 x XLR adapter) ?
I guess it means the common "ground" of single ended out will be connected to both "grounds" of LC's in.
Is there anything wrong with it (sound quality aspect aside) ?


----------



## seamon

wirefriend said:


> Is is safe to connect DX200 DAP's single-ended "out" to Cavalli LC's balanced "in" (with 3.5 TRS to 2 x XLR adapter) ?
> I guess it means the common "ground" of single ended out will be connected to both "grounds" of LC's in.
> Is there anything wrong with it (sound quality aspect aside) ?


Yea it's safe. I have done that many times and it works perfectly.

As a rule of thumb, you can connect a SE output to a Balanced input but never connect a Balanced Output to a SE Input.


----------



## kellte2

Quick question: normal for a pop noise to occur through the headphones when powering the amp? Nothing terribly loud, but I having just received it back from repair, I don’t recall if this is normal behavior.


----------



## fiascogarcia

kellte2 said:


> Quick question: normal for a pop noise to occur through the headphones when powering the amp? Nothing terribly loud, but I having just received it back from repair, I don’t recall if this is normal behavior.


I think its normal, as it has happened when I have the headphones plugged and turn it on.  I generally try to plug in after powering up.


----------



## Pharmaboy

fiascogarcia said:


> I think its normal, as it has happened when I have the headphones plugged and turn it on.  I generally try to plug in after powering up.



Everybody's system is different, so what I do may not work for others. But I have the line-level signal equipment on a separate switchable power strip than my powered monitors & subwoofer. Every day I turn things on in this order:

line-level power strip switched on
then switch on the headphone amp/preamp du jour (either V281 or Audio GD SA-31SE)
finally, switch on the power strip that drives the powered monitors -- the on/off rocker switch of each is on the back panel & inaccessible, so I leave those permanently switched on.
I do it this way because I learned the hard way the if the monitors are on first, they might produce a jarring "thump" (transient) when any of the other stuff goes on.

Once all this happens, I can listen to headphones on either of 2 amps--the amp/preamp du jour, and/or one other powered by the 2nd RCA output my DAC (usually either the Liquid Carbon or Violectric G109-A). Another tough lesson learned: never let a transient into headphones (ie, by turning on or off the upstream DAC). Not every amp/preamp will pass a transient to headphones. But all that happens just once (ie, hear that transient at volume through headphones)--any sane person will try very hard to never let it happen again...

When I shut things down, I do it in reverse order: 1st #3 above, then #2, then #1.


----------



## mandrake50

Pharmaboy said:


> Everybody's system is different, so what I do may not work for others. But I have the line-level signal equipment on a separate switchable power strip than my powered monitors & subwoofer. Every day I turn things on in this order:
> 
> line-level power strip switched on
> then switch on the headphone amp/preamp du jour (either V281 or Audio GD SA-31SE)
> ...



 I have the V1. Yes it gives a small crackl/thump when turned on. So do most of my amps. The relatively new iDSD Black Label does it.
It is not a defect... it takes a bit for the caps to charge.
Usually it will not hurt the headphones or your ears. Best practice it to NOT plug the headphones in until the amp has time to stabilize.
If you do that... you will never hear it, nor can it hurt the headphones.

If the LC is working properly, besides the start up noise, just follow the correct procedure and don't worry.


----------



## doraymon (Oct 8, 2017)

The specs of the LC say its max power is 1.5W into 50 Ohms.
Does that mean that its max current is than = SQRT(1.5/50)=0.17A?

I am trying to understand if my mains multiplug/filter can safely carry all the sources and the amp.

EDIT: or maybe that's half of it as the amp delivers 1.5W per channel, so 3W total?


----------



## Vicca Tito

Hi! I have one straightforward question. What to do with LC that went down when in Europe? 
I get no sound through single ended output on one channel (left one) while XLR phone output was working normally.
Next day even the right channel went down so now I'm getting no sound at all out of it. All three diodes are shining, indicating that there is a current in it. Where a fault might be?


----------



## bearFNF

If it is under warranty I would email Cavalli Audio about it and see what they will do for you.



Vicca Tito said:


> Hi! I have one straightforward question. What to do with LC that went down when in Europe?
> I get no sound through single ended output on one channel (left one) while XLR phone output was working normally.
> Next day even the right channel went down so now I'm getting no sound at all out of it. All three diodes are shining, indicating that there is a current in it. Where a fault might be?


----------



## doctorjazz

I had issues with the single ended output of my LC, sent it back to Cavalli. I'd guess warranty and shipping are the issues, though.


----------



## Zenifyx

doraymon said:


> The specs of the LC say its max power is 1.5W into 50 Ohms.
> Does that mean that its max current is than = SQRT(1.5/50)=0.17A?
> 
> I am trying to understand if my mains multiplug/filter can safely carry all the sources and the amp.
> ...



Those specs refer to the power output, not the power draw of the amp.
For an accurate figure, best to measure if you are concerned, different volume/gain levels may result in different power draw too.

For a rough gauge, the manual states "The Liquid Carbon dissipates about 8W of power".
Should be safe to assume that power draw is close to 8W.


----------



## doraymon

Zenifyx said:


> Those specs refer to the power output, not the power draw of the amp.
> For an accurate figure, best to measure if you are concerned, different volume/gain levels may result in different power draw too.
> 
> For a rough gauge, the manual states "The Liquid Carbon dissipates about 8W of power".
> Should be safe to assume that power draw is close to 8W.


Thanks!
That means with 220V a current of 0.036A. Nothing!
The filter is rated for 10A so even if I plug in all the rig on the same power strip/filter I will be abundantly belpw the maximum current.


----------



## claud W

Lots of amps give a little pop when you power them on. Some make a very loud one and those usually have something wrong with them. I just do like others here and power on without any headphones connected.  I further upgraded my computer headphone system with a Chord 2Qute DAC.


----------



## doraymon

claud W said:


> Lots of amps give a little pop when you power them on. Some make a very loud one and those usually have something wrong with them. I just do like others here and power on without any headphones connected.  I further upgraded my computer headphone system with a Chord 2Qute DAC.


The pairing with the 2Qute will be fantastic.
I used a Hugo (basically the same hardware of the 2 Qute only portable) with my LC2 and I enjoyed it a lot!
Great choice!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

has anyone here ever compared liquid carbon to headamp's gilmore lite?


----------



## triplestarfish3D

Can anyone provide a solid upgrade from the Liquid Carbons? I know the Liquid Gold is supposedly similar in tonality but I'm not sure if I can shell out that much money. Anything around ~$1500 would be appreciated.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have a Liquid Carbon v2.0 & love it. I also have a Violectric V281 & its less expensive but still excellent cousin, the Lake People G109-A.

I've been comparing the V281 to the LC for several hours on my Fidelio X2s. I'm having trouble taking them off my head!

These amps all rock like crazy, but they also contrast each other in fascinating ways, sonically. I get something different from the Violectric products vs the LC: 

somewhat less warmth 

still that great bass, but even a bit more dynamic/concussive
and great dynamics, top to bottom (the LC is not the last word in dynamics, though it's certainly not deficient). The V281 in particular has insane dynamics & bass, just beyond the pale.
but the LC has slightly more 3D soundstaging, though I'm splitting hairs now.

So I would suggest 2 Violectric options:
*
(SE output only): Violectric V200* (~$1,000 incl. fall discount): a lot of people give this one a lot of love on Head Fi. It has a little more than 1W greater power than the LC, though unless you have and HE-6, it probably won't matter in the least (the LC drives everything I have to more quality volume than I can handle).

*(SE & XLR outputs): Violectric V220* (~$1,550 incl. fall discount): This is the V281 minus preamp capability. A power monster said to sound identical to the V281--and believe me, that is a VERY GOOD thing.


----------



## triplestarfish3D

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a Liquid Carbon v2.0 & love it. I also have a Violectric V281 & its less expensive but still excellent cousin, the Lake People G109-A.
> 
> I've been comparing the V281 to the LC for several hours on my Fidelio X2s. I'm having trouble taking them off my head!
> 
> ...




I heard only good things about the Violectric a couple of years ago. Will definitely check them out  Thanks!


----------



## mandrake50 (Oct 11, 2017)

For a long time the Burson stuff got lots of posts here, and in the audio press. It has not  lately, concerning the latest iteration, the Conductor V2. There is a thread here, not very active, but owners seem to really like it. I picked up a Conductor V2+. The plus means it has a ESS based DAC built in. The amp is rated at 8 watts into 16 ohms. In other words, it can drive pretty much anything. I really like it. Maybe the new toy syndrome, but my LC has been sitting idle since I got the CV2+. It is very close to neutral. Has great sound field representation, but the thing that impresses me is the big deep bass from the thing. It is like bottomless and super clean. Over all detail retrieval is quite excellent. With some headphones, notably the HE 560, I really miss the smooth house sound of the little LC. For everything else, I am really learning to appreciate the Burson. For instance, one of the raps on the HE 1000 V1 was that it lacked punch. The Burson definitely removes that area for criticism.

It is built like a tank, really. I think 5mm chassis and case all aluminum. Multiple inputs and outputs, even a remote control.

I don't know if you could arrange to hear one, but if so, take a listen. There are a few, very positive, reviews out there. I think it comes in list a bit above $1500, but dealing directly with Burson, you may well be able to get it for closer to $1300 shipped. If you just want the amp without the DAC, it is a few hundred less. In any case, it is within your budget.

OTH, what is driving you to look for something to replace the LC. I have been very happy with my V1. I actually sort of stumbled into the Burson deal while talking to them about getting their latest opamps for the Gustard H10. They offered me a deal on a package of the 4 V6s that I wanted and the DAC/AMP for a deal that I couldn't refuse. Otherwise, between the H10 and LC, I was doing alright.

OH, and for a budget amp, you might check out the H10 too. It is one that I bought because so many raved about it with the HE560. As people are fond of saying, It punches way above its price point. It also allows all kinds of customization via opamp rolling. Some have said it is close to a direct copy, with what Gustard thinks are improvements, of one of the Violectric amps.


----------



## doraymon

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a Liquid Carbon v2.0 & love it. I also have a Violectric V281 & its less expensive but still excellent cousin, the Lake People G109-A.
> 
> I've been comparing the V281 to the LC for several hours on my Fidelio X2s. I'm having trouble taking them off my head!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the hint.
I'm a bit confused on the V220 though, it seems it has only SE outputs on the front panel and balanced only on the rear panel! That is weird.
And what about the V280?


----------



## yage

triplestarfish3D said:


> Can anyone provide a solid upgrade from the Liquid Carbons?



If you have reasonably sensitive headphones, I suggest the new HeadAmp Gilmore Lite mk2 ($499). Classic circuit design and class A operation. I own an older variant, the GS-1, and I prefer it to the Carbon as well as the Gold. Made in the USA, if that's important to you. Sometimes you don't have to pay more for better performance.


----------



## Pharmaboy

doraymon said:


> Thanks for the hint.
> I'm a bit confused on the V220 though, it seems it has only SE outputs on the front panel and balanced only on the rear panel! That is weird.
> And what about the V280?



No wonder you're confused about the V220--it's the wrong model #! My bad...sorry for the confusion. But it must be said, the Violectric models #s are kind of confusing to begin with.

I meant to refer to the *V280*, which is the non-preamp, balanced output version of the big V281: http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v280

The V280 is their primo balanced amp that is not also a pre-amp; the V200 is their primo SE amp that is not also a pre-amp.


----------



## doraymon

Pharmaboy said:


> No wonder you're confused about the V220--it's the wrong model #! My bad...sorry for the confusion. But it must be said, the Violectric models #s are kind of confusing to begin with.
> 
> I meant to refer to the *V280*, which is the non-preamp, balanced output version of the big V281: http://violectric-usa.com/headphone-amplifiers/hpa-v280
> 
> The V280 is their primo balanced amp that is not also a pre-amp; the V200 is their primo SE amp that is not also a pre-amp.


That's what I thought thanks!
Well this is very, very interesting. I will look for comparisons vs V281, if it's really so close its a perfect solution to upgrade from LC2 without going completely bankrupt!


----------



## Pharmaboy

doraymon said:


> That's what I thought thanks!
> Well this is very, very interesting. I will look for comparisons vs V281, if it's really so close its a perfect solution to upgrade from LC2 without going completely bankrupt!



There are several/occasional mentions of V281 vs V280 comparisons earlier in this thread. Can't recall dates/pgs. I'm pretty sure several people concluded these amps sound virtually identical--as they should: as far as I can tell, the only real differences between them are a larger case + preamp outs on the V281.


----------



## Toolman

bearFNF said:


> If it is under warranty I would email Cavalli Audio about it and see what they will do for you.



Unfortunately all warranty are deemed expired now that Cavalli has shut up shop for good.

I shall cherish my LAu (and LC2) for as long as my ears holds up


----------



## x RELIC x

Toolman said:


> Unfortunately all warranty are deemed expired now that Cavalli has shut up shop for good.
> 
> I shall cherish my LAu (and LC2) for as long as my ears holds up



Wait, what?!


----------



## fiascogarcia

Toolman said:


> Unfortunately all warranty are deemed expired now that Cavalli has shut up shop for good.
> 
> I shall cherish my LAu (and LC2) for as long as my ears holds up


Where did you get this information?


----------



## Emerpus

fiascogarcia said:


> Where did you get this information?



https://head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audio.862917/


----------



## Mediahound

Emerpus said:


> https://head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audio.862917/




Yep, plus https://www.cavalliaudio.com is offline too


----------



## Ken G

Wow, the Massdrop deal makes a lot more sense in this context.  Mark it down now, there almost assuredly  be a Higher end Massdrop/Cavalli amp (Liquid Crimson?) for sale on Massdrop by this time next year.


----------



## Mediahound

Ken G said:


> Wow, the Massdrop deal makes a lot more sense in this context.  Mark it down now, there almost assuredly  be a Higher end Massdrop/Cavalli amp (Liquid Crimson?) for sale on Massdrop by this time next year.



Cavalli stated: "Though there are no certain plans beyond the CTH and Carbon"


----------



## x RELIC x

Emerpus said:


> https://head-fi.org/threads/cavalli-audio.862917/



Wow, thanks for the link.


----------



## maheeinfy

There was a portable cavalli amp..i think its called Spark?? 

Did it ever happen?


----------



## fiascogarcia

maheeinfy said:


> There was a portable cavalli amp..i think its called Spark??
> 
> Did it ever happen?


Maybe that will be the next Massdrop endeavor?


----------



## novicez1 (Oct 16, 2017)

triplestarfish3D said:


> Can anyone provide a solid upgrade from the Liquid Carbons? I know the Liquid Gold is supposedly similar in tonality but I'm not sure if I can shell out that much money. Anything around ~$1500 would be appreciated.



Having personally heard the Liquid Gold for a short period of time, it's a tad rough on the edges when compared against the V281. Then again, it needed some time to "warm up" according to the owner of the amp.

You may want to look at the Auralic Taurus.


----------



## doctorjazz

Sad to hear...Best of luck with all the family issues, Alex!


----------



## mandrake50 (Oct 16, 2017)

novicez1 said:


> Having personally heard the Liquid Gold for a _short period of time_, it's a tad rough on the edges when compared against the V281. Then again, it needed some time to "warm up" according to the owner of the amp.
> You may want to look at the Auralic Taurus.



Could you clarify what period of time this actually was?  Did you do a direct volume matched A/B comparison?  I always like to qualify statements like this. I had a LAU for about a month. I should have never let it go. But am actively looking for the right deal on one now.  I have only listened to a V281 casually at a few meets. I never found the LAU to be rough around the edges in comparison. Exactly what is your definition of "rough around the edges" ??  I can't say that I actually understand it. Can you be more specific? Just curious where you are coming from.  If I have any reason to agree, it could save me some money.


----------



## sahmen

It seems to me that Massdrop can license the LAU or the Crimson off Alex's hands and launch its own production units, if they approach Alex with that proposition....  For the moment, this is just something I am "beating the drums" for, hoping it might catch some fire...

Both Massdrop and Alex do mention that nothing is as yet planned beyond the Massdrop LC, but it seems to me that they are not necessarily closing the door on further collaborative ventures, and if they feel there might be a good market for either an MD-LAU or MD-Crimson, made available in the same way the current MD-Liquid Carbon has been, I am sure they wouldn't shy away from taking a bite...

Again these are just my thoughts, although I hope both Massdrop and Alex are listening (or reading this, whichever applies)


----------



## doraymon

There is always a certain degree of bitterness when a brand like Cavalli Audio shuts down, even more when this is driven by personal issues of the owner and founder.
However I can't stop thinking about the impact of this decision on the many fans who decided to put their savings into one of Cavalli's products and now are left without warranty.
In the big scheme of things I'm sure this will eventually prove not be a big issue but I am wondering if it could have been handled differently.


----------



## mandrake50 (Oct 16, 2017)

I am sorry to see Alex go. I met him a couple of times and really enjoyed it. I really appreciate what he has done for the community as well.

I am a bit dismayed to lose the "lifetime" warranty on my LC. But it is a reality of dissolving a company the size of CA. If they are not selling anything, there is no way to cash  flow the expense of servicing warrantees.

It is what it is, I guess, but I don't think Alex had much choice. Once the decision was made to close the business that is.


----------



## swspiers

mandrake50 said:


> I am sorry to see Alex go. I met him a couple of times and really enjoyed it. I really appreciate what he has done for the community as well.
> 
> I am a bit dismayed to lose the "lifetime" warranty on my LC. But it is a reality of dissolving a company the size of CA. If they are not selling anything, there is no way to cash  flow the expense of servicing warrantees.
> 
> It is what it is, I guess, but I don't think Alex had much choice. Once the decision was made to close the business that is.



I hate to admit it, but I'm not tickled at losing the LF warranty.  But that's how it goes in 'Boutique World'...


----------



## Hooster (Oct 16, 2017)

doraymon said:


> There is always a certain degree of bitterness when a brand like Cavalli Audio shuts down, even more when this is driven by personal issues of the owner and founder.
> However I can't stop thinking about the impact of this decision on the many fans who decided to put their savings into one of Cavalli's products and now are left without warranty.



I don't see why they should be worried. They would not have put their savings into a product that is not reliable, would they?

If you like Cavalli you should be buying the amp you want now. The prices will probably go up as they become more scarce.


----------



## abvolt

I guess the LCX was a good thing glad I got one now that the company is no more too bad for that..


----------



## doraymon

Hooster said:


> I don't see why they should be worried. They would not have put their savings into a product that is not reliable, would they?
> 
> If you like Cavalli you should be buying the amp you want now. The prices will probably go up as they become more scarce.


I like your optimism. 
And I agree the prices of existing units might go up. 
I might decide to keep my LC2 as a piece of headfi history...


----------



## Mediahound

The liquid carbon has never been very reliable. issues with the volume pot etc. The massdrop made ones are not proven. It is yet to be seen if massdrop is even capable of manufacturing amplifiers. I don’t believe they ever have before.


----------



## purk

Hooster said:


> I don't see why they should be worried. They would not have put their savings into a product that is not reliable, would they?
> 
> If you like Cavalli you should be buying the amp you want now. The prices will probably go up as they become more scarce.



I don't think the value will go up...in fact it will go down.  Lacking warranty supports can be a big issue if you think of it.  Plus, there are many good sounding amplifiers out there with proper warranty supports.


----------



## doraymon

Mediahound said:


> The liquid carbon has never been very reliable. issues with the volume pot etc. The massdrop made ones are not proven. It is yet to be seen if massdrop is even capable of manufacturing amplifiers. I don’t believe they ever have before.


After one year my LC2 works flawlessly but I heard about others having the issues you mention.


----------



## doraymon

purk said:


> I don't think the value will go up...in fact it will go down.  Lacking warranty supports can be a big issue if you think of it.  Plus, there are many good sounding amplifiers out there with proper warranty supports.


If the amp is already out of warranty that makes no difference. 
Cavalli nominated a company to provide technical service for the existing amps. 
I'm not comparing with a new amp of any brand obviously but if you want the original Cavalli sound the LC is and will always be the most affordable solution. 
Massdrop is massdrop, Cavalli is Cavalli...


----------



## purk

doraymon said:


> If the amp is already out of warranty that makes no difference.
> Cavalli nominated a company to provide technical service for the existing amps.
> I'm not comparing with a new amp of any brand obviously but if you want the original Cavalli sound the LC is and will always be the most affordable solution.
> Massdrop is massdrop, Cavalli is Cavalli...



The repair cost will not be cheap and the LC1 amps have had issues in the past.  The pot is notoriously bad and I had channel imbalanced from the get go.


----------



## Hooster

I really don't see what the big deal is. If the pot goes bad, take the opportunity to replace it with a better pot. They are not that expensive. A nice one should cost about 10 bucks.


----------



## bronzboy

Mediahound said:


> The liquid carbon has never been very reliable. issues with the volume pot etc. The massdrop made ones are not proven. It is yet to be seen if massdrop is even capable of manufacturing amplifiers. I don’t believe they ever have before.


I had my volume pot repaired under warranty, but my LC2's one year warranty is now expired,  so I'm satisfied that Alex Cavalli recommended a shop to repair it in the future if needed.  My list of purchases of audio equipment through the years have mostly lived far beyond any warranties, but there have been a few expensive ones that have died before I thought they should.  I am very pleased with my LC2 ( and have been for the past eleven months after repaired) so I am looking forward to listening to it and continuing to enjoy it for a while.  Good luck to all of us.


----------



## novicez1 (Oct 17, 2017)

mandrake50 said:


> Could you clarify what period of time this actually was?  Did you do a direct volume matched A/B comparison?  I always like to qualify statements like this. I had a LAU for about a month. I should have never let it go. But am actively looking for the right deal on one now.  I have only listened to a V281 casually at a few meets. I never found the LAU to be rough around the edges in comparison. Exactly what is your definition of "rough around the edges" ??  I can't say that I actually understand it. Can you be more specific? Just curious where you are coming from.  If I have any reason to agree, it could save me some money.



This was during 3rd week of last month, a cozy afternoon in the mall, just got off from a lazy seminar and decided to pay my favorite(and quite probably the only headfi shop available in my area) head fi shiop, and there was a Liquid Gold on the audition table. It was hooked up to a Chord QBD76 and a macbook pro playing lossless files. The unit was not in used so I simply turned it on and hooked up a balanced HE1000 on it, since back then before I was looking for a TOTL setup, I was auditioning all the available TOTL headphones on a QBD76>V281(which now I currently have paired with the RS06) setup and 3 planars stood out at that time(Ether, LCDX, HE1000).

From what I can remember, the HE1000 sounded too smooth on the QBD76>V281, to the point that it started to make me feel sleepy, it lacked "bite" or "grit". Cymbals and hat strikes lack the attack compared to the Ether's, well till I heard the HE1000 on the Liquid Gold. It gained some of the "bite" and "grit" it was lacking paired with the V281, but since the HE1000 has a "hazy" character, this introduced a bit of graininess in the overall sound profile.

Now depending on the headphones you have, this may or may not be beneficial for you if you consider gear synergy. If you can, it is best you audition it first hand, as everyone have different preferences and listening abilities. Hope this helps you out in your purchase decisions.


----------



## mandrake50

Thanks. I appreciate the response. I may be living in the past a bit. One of the most remarkable listening experiences I have had was at the Cavalli booth a couple of years ago. He had the LAU driven by a high end DAC (can't remember the exact one) driving a set of Abyss phones. I spent about an hour there in the early afternoon on Friday. It actually was not too noisy. It is probably unobtainable, but I still search for that sound.

BTW, I have a set of HE1K V1. Interestingly, part of what I like about them is that smoothness.


----------



## novicez1

mandrake50 said:


> Thanks. I appreciate the response. I may be living in the past a bit. One of the most remarkable listening experiences I have had was at the Cavalli booth a couple of years ago. He had the LAU driven by a high end DAC (can't remember the exact one) driving a set of Abyss phones. I spent about an hour there in the early afternoon on Friday. It actually was not too noisy. It is probably unobtainable, but I still search for that sound.
> 
> BTW, I have a set of HE1K V1. Interestingly, part of what I like about them is that smoothness.



If that's the case, I think you might like the V281 as it makes it's smooth character even more evident.


----------



## purk

Hooster said:


> I really don't see what the big deal is. If the pot goes bad, take the opportunity to replace it with a better pot. They are not that expensive. A nice one should cost about 10 bucks.



If you can do the work yourself then great but others may need to send their units in.  I no longer have the LC but I did have one in the past.  If you guys are looking for a great amp that can compete and even surpass the LAu, get someone to build you a SuSy Dynahi with premium parts or contact Doug at ECP Audio and get the Ravenswood/DSHA-4 built.  I had the pleasure of comparing these three amps in the past and the two mentioned are a match made in  heaven with the HEK. V1/V2 and should be for the Susvara.


----------



## pippen99

I was in on the last run of the Liquid Gold.  I was near the end and received my unit in October 2016.  I believe these last run Lau were the final amps built by Cavalli.  My Lau had a 1 year warranty so thusly expired.  Unless someone purchased a remnant from dealer stock all Cavalli warranties are expired except for the LC v1 lifetime warranty.  So not really an issue except for those 500 owners.


----------



## abvolt

I wonder if any other Cavalli amps will be available though Massdrop like the LCX, Cavalli might as will sold more rights to Massdrop then is known I hope so..


----------



## Pumba101

Do you think the LCX will benefit from a better power supply? If so, any ideas what?


----------



## PopZeus

Pumba101 said:


> Do you think the LCX will benefit from a better power supply? If so, any ideas what?


I have to imagine that if Massdrop wants to release a more upscale amp, the idea of licensing another one of Cavalli’s designs is on the table. Makes sense for them to start at the entry-level market with the LCX though.


----------



## canthearyou

I need some help and opinions. I just recently sold my LC 2.0. I had no issues with it during my short time with it. As I've been using it almost daily I guaranteed the recipient a working amp upon arrival. After the new owner gets the amp he tells me the SE inputs are faulty and only work on the left channel. I only used it balanced and was not aware of the issue. I offered to purchase and send the owner a pair of RCA to XLR adaptors. He refused and wants a full refund. What should I do? The amp technically still functions 100% with use of the balanced inputs or XLR adaptors.


----------



## doctorjazz

I had the same problem with the single ended output, luckily while the company was still around to repair it. Don't know if you really want opinions, but if I were the buyer, I'd want my money back, or at least a substantial discount. If I bought it discounted knowing the problem, that would be OK, but I'd be upset if not.


----------



## singleended5863

canthearyou said:


> I need some help and opinions. I just recently sold my LC 2.0. I had no issues with it during my short time with it. As I've been using it almost daily I guaranteed the recipient a working amp upon arrival. After the new owner gets the amp he tells me the SE inputs are faulty and only work on the left channel. I only used it balanced and was not aware of the issue. I offered to purchase and send the owner a pair of RCA to XLR adaptors. He refused and wants a full refund. What should I do? The amp technically still functions 100% with use of the balanced inputs or XLR adaptors.



Some buyers are super nice who are accepting the current  amp’scondition and some very picky like in your situation who might not know the techical parts and assume one output is defect so the others will happen soon. However, in your situation either you should offer to refund some money so he can use that to fix the problem. Your offer is reasonable too but maybe the buyer has only SE input so he only use SE output to use with his headphones.


----------



## upsguys88

I agree with the previous advice


----------



## harpo1

canthearyou said:


> I need some help and opinions. I just recently sold my LC 2.0. I had no issues with it during my short time with it. As I've been using it almost daily I guaranteed the recipient a working amp upon arrival. After the new owner gets the amp he tells me the SE inputs are faulty and only work on the left channel. I only used it balanced and was not aware of the issue. I offered to purchase and send the owner a pair of RCA to XLR adaptors. He refused and wants a full refund. What should I do? The amp technically still functions 100% with use of the balanced inputs or XLR adaptors.


If you sold it as a fully functioning product and it isn't you need to refund him fully.


----------



## doctorjazz

I agree, I'd be upset if I thought it had nothing wrong with it.


----------



## canthearyou (Dec 3, 2017)

Another question for you guys. The SE out works even if you use balanced in, correct?

I'm upset that I was sold the amp a few months ago an was told it was fully functional. I didn't buy a fully balanced amp to use it SE so I never tried it.

Now I'll have to give this POS garbage amp away. I'm so glad I paid $700 for it! Probably why Cavalli closed. High priced trash! /rant


----------



## harpo1

canthearyou said:


> Another question for you guys. The SE out works even if you use balanced in, correct?


It does


----------



## doctorjazz

You can use balanced in and single ended out or si ended in and balanced out.


----------



## fiascogarcia

canthearyou said:


> I need some help and opinions. I just recently sold my LC 2.0. I had no issues with it during my short time with it. As I've been using it almost daily I guaranteed the recipient a working amp upon arrival. After the new owner gets the amp he tells me the SE inputs are faulty and only work on the left channel. I only used it balanced and was not aware of the issue. I offered to purchase and send the owner a pair of RCA to XLR adaptors. He refused and wants a full refund. What should I do? The amp technically still functions 100% with use of the balanced inputs or XLR adaptors.


My two cents; if the buyer isn't willing to take an agreeable discount, I'd send him return postage, and full credit when you've received the unit back.


----------



## canthearyou

I did. We are in agreement. Unit is on its way back to me.


----------



## sheldaze

canthearyou said:


> Now I'll have to give this POS garbage amp away.



If you visit Cavalli's site (http://www.cavalliaudio.com/) there's a link to the repair shop Avenson Audio, who should be able to assist you with a repair.


----------



## doctorjazz

Hey, @sheldaze, how's it going down in the Capitol?


----------



## sheldaze

Going well, though staying away from the city's going on's is probably best 

Also re-reading the Cavalli site, support may just be for the big amplifiers. I actually thought about you, when we recently had almost all three of the big amplifiers in a room. Was thinking you might have wanted to come down to hear all three (Crimson, Glass, and Gold) side-by-side. But then "stuff" happened, so it ended up just the Glass. Will definitely ping you with information if there's a next big event.


----------



## doctorjazz

I'd love to make it down finally if I can, keep me posted!


----------



## bronzboy (Dec 4, 2017)

canthearyou said:


> I did. We are in agreement. Unit is on its way back to me.


canthearyou -
Nice to see a stand-up guy!  Well played, sir.


----------



## doctorjazz

Cool!


----------



## Shawnb

Sad to hear about the closing of Cavalli. Lifetime Warranty of the LC only lasted 2 years. So glad I didn't upgrade to one of the higher end amps.
Even sadder that there was no email or anything announcing it and I had to find out here, it's going to be a complete shock to some who go looking for support in a few years only to see that they closed up. Would of been nice to have a mass email or something. Shame on me for expecting more
Just a sad end all around.


----------



## Pharmaboy

*Liquid Carbon update: *After Cavalli's withdrawal from the market & all the concerns that causes LC owners--maybe this post is beating (petting?) a dead horse. But here it is, anyway... 

I just spent several hours listening to my E-Mu Teaks on the LC. A "warm" amp like the LC shouldn't match up with a headphone often called "warm" & "organic" -- but it _is_ a good match. No, make that a _great_ match. The bass is really exceptional; the whole frequency range is just nailed by the LC. With the LC I can always count on excellent soundstaging, solid bass, and a very pleasing, burnished quality to the upper midrange and treble. I've used 4 amps with the Teaks--they're all good, but the LC is my favorite w/this headphone.

This is not a new thing; the LC is also is my favorite for the Fidelio X2's & Sony MDR S7s. I find the LC interacts w/warm headphones in unexpected ways--not "coloring" their sound or adding its warmth to theirs, but locking in w/the good sonic qualities they have, making them sound even better.

Luckily for me, my v2 LC worked perfectly from day-1. Now I treat it with kid gloves, using it infrequently & not for extended periods (I prefer to rotate amps anyway). I'll run out the string out on this LC as long as possible because I really love the sound. 

The LC is not a large, impressive, feature-rich amp. When I first unpacked it, I mentally discounted some of the praise I'd read about it. But after it was burned in & I began using it, I no longer discounted this amp. It's the real deal.


----------



## PopZeus

Fwiw, I'm really excited to get the LCX when that drop starts shipping out. I know it's not a real LC but it's about as close as I'm going to get. Also, happened to want an amp with XLR balanced out.


----------



## singleended5863

Pharmaboy said:


> *Liquid Carbon update: *After Cavalli's withdrawal from the market & all the concerns that causes LC owners--maybe this post is beating (petting?) a dead horse. But here it is, anyway...
> 
> I just spent several hours listening to my E-Mu Teaks on the LC. A "warm" amp like the LC shouldn't match up with a headphone often called "warm" & "organic" -- but it _is_ a good match. No, make that a _great_ match. The bass is really exceptional; the whole frequency range is just nailed by the LC. With the LC I can always count on excellent soundstaging, solid bass, and a very pleasing, burnished quality to the upper midrange and treble. I've used 4 amps with the Teaks--they're all good, but the LC is my favorite w/this headphone.
> 
> ...



What e-mu headphones do you have? Small or regular version?


----------



## maheeinfy

Anyone know if LC is a Class AB design? or something else


----------



## Pharmaboy

singleended5863 said:


> What e-mu headphones do you have? Small or regular version?



E-Mu Teak...the large/regular version. The smaller one has walnut earcups that aren't round...


----------



## Pharmaboy

maheeinfy said:


> Anyone know if LC is a Class AB design? or something else



I can't be sure, but my guess would be it's either F.T. class A--or is AB & runs 90% of the time in A (because it gets pretty warm).

Here are the specs for the version of LC that Massdrop recently licensed from Cavalli--this is the one to buy if you want a new LC:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-alex-cavalli-liquid-carbon-x-amp


----------



## Odin412

Pharmaboy said:


> Luckily for me, my v2 LC worked perfectly from day-1. Now I treat it with kid gloves, using it infrequently & not for extended periods (I prefer to rotate amps anyway). I'll run out the string out on this LC as long as possible because I really love the sound.



I have a V1 Liquid Carbon that I love as well, but I use mine all the time. No problems at all this far and if it breaks then I will get it fixed and keep using it all the time once more. The fact that the LC will live on as a Massdrop product makes me comfortable that there is a backup source for amps going forward. (I know the Massdrop version is made in China instead on Austin, Texas, but it's as close to the original LC that you can get.) Hopefully Massdrop will create their version of other Cavalli amps in the future.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Odin412 said:


> I have a V1 Liquid Carbon that I love as well, but I use mine all the time. No problems at all this far and if it breaks then I will get it fixed and keep using it all the time once more. The fact that the LC will live on as a Massdrop product makes me comfortable that there is a backup source for amps going forward. (I know the Massdrop version is made in China instead on Austin, Texas, but it's as close to the original LC that you can get.) Hopefully Massdrop will create their version of other Cavalli amps in the future.



I agree 100%. I may even pick up one of the new Massdrop LDX boxes (new or used) in 1st 1/2 of 2018. 

I'm kinda interested in the "SE pass" output (L+R RCA) on that unit. If I read comments correctly, this "SE pass" lets the LDX to "chain" w/another downstream component that operates independently, whether the LDX was switched on or not. Punchline: that would let me use a 3rd HP amp in my desktop system.

I can use 2 HP amps currently, thanks to the dual RCA outputs on my Audio GD NOS 19. 
I always have 1 amp/preamp on 1 of those outputs, driving powered monitors + sub; w/the 2nd amp there for independent headphone use. 
Now it would be 1 amp/preamp + 2 other amps.

Yes, it's all quite insane. "It's how I roll."


----------



## PopZeus

Yeah, passive bypass for feeding a speaker or receiver (in addition to the XLR balanced out) makes the LCX fairly useful beyond recreating the original Cavalli design.


----------



## Odin412

Pharmaboy said:


> I agree 100%. I may even pick up one of the new Massdrop LDX boxes (new or used) in 1st 1/2 of 2018.
> 
> I'm kinda interested in the "SE pass" output (L+R RCA) on that unit. If I read comments correctly, this "SE pass" lets the LDX to "chain" w/another downstream component that operates independently, whether the LDX was switched on or not. Punchline: that would let me use a 3rd HP amp in my desktop system.
> 
> ...



That does sound like a useful feature. I use a somewhat simpler solution to feed two amps from a single DAC output:



 

It sounds fine as long as I leave the LC on when I listen to the other amp (Woo Audio WA6). Leaving the WA6 off when I listen to the LC works fine - it probably has something to do with tubes vs. solid state.


----------



## abvolt

PopZeus said:


> Fwiw, I'm really excited to get the LCX when that drop starts shipping out. I know it's not a real LC but it's about as close as I'm going to get. Also, happened to want an amp with XLR balanced out.



I agree can't wait to get mine, I'm also looking forward to see if Massdrop will bring other Cavalli amps to there members, that would be awesome..enjoy


----------



## abvolt

Oh boy a little more than a month away until my LCX arrives, I post pics of it's internals..enjoy


----------



## ymshulman

I see Massdrop just announced the Liquid Carbon X + SDAC.

I'm new to this; I ordered a pair of the HD6xx, and am looking for a DAC/amp to pair with it. I'm seeing a lot of writing about balanced wiring, and don't know what I'm looking at. Would this DAC/amp from Massdrop need other equipment, like these aforementioned balanced cables, to really be worth it? Would it be a good match for the HD6xx? Is it worth paying the premium for this combo over the ~$200 I would otherwise put towards a simple Schiit stack, or a used original iFi micro iDSD?

I would love to hear feedback from users who know more than I do about this, and can guide me to finding something I'll enjoy


----------



## abvolt

I saw that as well it sure sounds like it'll be nice have to wait & see what the price will be, Balanced for me is the only way to go. I ordered the LCX should have that amp early March & they say it has the Cavalli sound I'll be happy. I'd say you'd be happy with that purchase but wait & see what others say..enjoy


----------



## baiyy1986

abvolt said:


> I saw that as well it sure sounds like it'll be nice have to wait & see what the price will be, Balanced for me is the only way to go. I ordered the LCX should have that amp early March & they say it has the Cavalli sound I'll be happy. I'd say you'd be happy with that purchase but wait & see what others say..enjoy


$379.99 with free US shipping and subsidized international shipping.


----------



## abvolt

Wow very cool I'd say that sounds like a deal, I may just have to get one for family member..


----------



## throwseidon

how would the Liquid Carbon X + SDAC compare to the Jotunheim + DAC? I understand it's $380 compared to $500 but at this point I'm more just looking for a bottom line performer


----------



## freitz

throwseidon said:


> how would the Liquid Carbon X + SDAC compare to the Jotunheim + DAC? I understand it's $380 compared to $500 but at this point I'm more just looking for a bottom line performer



Also curious about this because the Liquid Carbon as an AMp is better then the Audeze Deckard... atleast that would be my guess. I would think as an Amp it is better then the Jotunheim. Not sure about the Grace Dac though. I am really interested in this drop to replace my Audeze Deckard.

Can anyone weigh in on this that has experience with the LC amp and Grace DAC?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...leCampaignId=233692&iterableTemplateId=333094


----------



## Zachik

freitz said:


> Also curious about this because the Liquid Carbon as an AMp is better then the Audeze Deckard... atleast that would be my guess. *I would think as an Amp it is better then the Jotunheim*. Not sure about the Grace Dac though. I am really interested in this drop to replace my Audeze Deckard.
> 
> Can anyone weigh in on this that has experience with the LC amp and Grace DAC?
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-liquid-carbon-x-sdac-dac-amp?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ccu_Massdrop_Liquid_Carbon_X_SDAC_DAC/Amp&referer=GW9EEL&mode=guest_open&iterableCampaignId=233692&iterableTemplateId=333094


I have the Schiit Jot, and I auditioned the Cavalli LC 2.0 several times.
The Jot is more powerful. I do not think anyone would argue that.
As for sound signature - I personally preferred the LC over Jot. In a sentence, I would say that Jot is more detailed and analytical, whereas Cavalli is more musical, smooth and fun. So, it is down to personal sound signature preference.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## freitz

Zachik said:


> I have the Schiit Jot, and I auditioned the Cavalli LC 2.0 several times.
> The Jot is more powerful. I do not think anyone would argue that.
> As for sound signature - I personally preferred the LC over Jot. In a sentence, I would say that Jot is more detailed and analytical, whereas Cavalli is more musical, smooth and fun. So, it is down to personal sound signature preference.
> 
> Just my 2 cents


Difference between the LC 2.0 vs this LC X mass drop?


----------



## Zachik

freitz said:


> Difference between the LC 2.0 vs this LC X mass drop?


I have not seen ANY impressions by anyone on LCX. The premise (and promise) is they sound the same (based on that - I did join the drop).
Some people even speculated that due to the external power supply (in LCX) - it might sound a bit better (less noise).


----------



## indrakula

I have LC2 for a while now, it is fine amp but was not happy with constant defects. First volume pot and second time it was fried chip.

Had to send for repair both times, and cavalliwas good to respond. Since they are now shut down, worried what happens on my next defect if any. Anyways, i also like Jot but recently i bought Luxman DA-150 and Lehman audio Linear SE. Man this combination is a killer.


----------



## baiyy1986

throwseidon said:


> how would the Liquid Carbon X + SDAC compare to the Jotunheim + DAC? I understand it's $380 compared to $500 but at this point I'm more just looking for a bottom line performer


It really depends on what you need.
My personal option:
Function:Jot> LCX, Jot has very nice balanced output, which is really nice to have under 1000, also to mention if you own a jbl slr 305, it is somekind of pain to find balanced input(even you don't have to), I end up get a DAC, and schitt sys as a preamp.
DAC: Jot>= LCX, I never try sdac, but it is still one of the best budge dac, but jot has a Dual AK4490 which make it really awesome, but the price will go up to 499.
AMP:LCX>>Jot, it really depends on what kind of headphone you use, but I think overall LC is the best under 1000 amp
So it really depends on what you want, if you want a simple good computer console, choose Jot, if you already have gear, you just want to upgrade your headphone amp, choose LCX.
Both in my mind are all perfect. since I have my own dac and I want a just good headphone amp, so I choose LCX. But this is for me, cause I have already set up my speakers, Jot will have a cleaner look on your desk(my desk is a mess right now because all the wires I have.


----------



## ymshulman

From what I'm hearing, although the LCX is a very nice amp, it isn't clearly the option to pick over others like the Schiit stack or the original iFI micro iDSD, particularly since it carries almost a $200 premium, and particularly if one would see the LCX as having to be the endgame, and the other options might allow for upgrading down the line. (For example - start with the iFi micro iDSD, and consider adding a tube amp at some point.) 

Would that sound right? Or should I still seriously consider the LCX?

This is for use with the HD6xx, for someone new to the audio game (have been using unamped ATH 50x for about 2 years now, first pair of solid headphones.)


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have the LC v2; never heard Jot or LD-X w/SDAC. However, I have 3-4 other SS amps and have done many comparisons between the LC and them (ie, V281; Audio GD SA-31SE; Lake People G109-A). A few points based on experience:

IMO the bigger question here is what your sonic tastes/preferences are & how the LC/LD-X design would work for you (& your headphones): 
The LC & LD-X should sound identical or very close to it. They're based on the same exact circuit, though Cavalli is out of the biz now and Massdrop is very much in the game; also the P.S. may be better on the LD-X, as noted above
The LC is not an "uncolored" amp. It's clearly on the warm side, does soundstaging quite well, and has great bass; many consider it "tube-like" (though the bass is anything but tube-like). Anyway, I love the LC precisely because these "colorations" play to my preferences, also work so well with every headphone I've tried on them (ZMF Ori & Eikon; Fidelio X2; E-Mu Teak; Focal Elear; Sony MDR Z7) 

Talk about colorations misses a key fact about the LC: it has the ability to "lock in" w/a given headphone to produce better synergy & sound than any other amp. Often the headphone in question is, itself, rather warm & bass--so you'd think, "That combination must sound like lukewarm maple  syrup." Wrong--it sounds amazing. I got the best sound ever out of my X2s and E-Mu Teaks on the LC.
By contrast, the Jot is often described as "detailed/accurate" -- or "bright/relentless," depending who's writing the comments. That sound signature is really not for me, so I never tried one. But people have very different sonic preferences: for many, Jot is best-in-class, a sonic dream come true, and the LC/LD-X would be atrocious.

It all comes back to knowing who your sonic self is, and acting accordingly...


----------



## ymshulman

This might be a long shot... But are there online EQ testing places where one can start getting a feel for which sound signature one might prefer? Obviously would not compare to comparing real equipment, but just to give one a starting point?


----------



## abvolt

The LCX won't ship until 2/28/18..I'll let you all know what I think when I get my hands on it..


----------



## m usicguy (Feb 8, 2018)

My second liquid carbon has died.  This is very disappointing.  First one was a warranty. Second one died yesterday, now i have to pay

Musicguy


----------



## kellte2

Mine died literally days before they closed their doors. Input chip fried 3 times in 6 weeks. I wasn’t happy, but they agreed to refund my purchase price, almost a year after purchase. If only the amp were as good as the customer service. 

I expect those amps to have a short life, now that the shop has closed and all are forced to pay for repairs. A shame, as the amp had a great sound, but it was terribly unreliable, especially for the price.


----------



## Hooster

abvolt said:


> Oh boy a little more than a month away until my LCX arrives, I post pics of it's internals..enjoy



Yes, please do. I hope it works out well for you.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cav...ners-impressions.822866/page-14#post-14028464


----------



## eyoon

m usicguy said:


> My second liquid carbon has died.  This is very disappointing.  First one was a warranty. Second one died yesterday, now i have to pay



How much are repairs?


----------



## m usicguy

Since the company closed anyone do a repair?  Quality of repair cost?

Musicguy


----------



## abvolt

Sorry dude that does suck..


----------



## abvolt

kellte2 said:


> Mine died literally days before they closed their doors. Input chip fried 3 times in 6 weeks. I wasn’t happy, but they agreed to refund my purchase price, almost a year after purchase. If only the amp were as good as the customer service.
> 
> I expect those amps to have a short life, now that the shop has closed and all are forced to pay for repairs. A shame, as the amp had a great sound, but it was terribly unreliable, especially for the price.


 I've read many owners saying similar things about their Cavailli amps maybe that brand is not all it's said to be hope not..


----------



## Pharmaboy

The direction this thread has taken is sad: Cavalli leaves the market; legacy LCs seem to be failing all over the place; and so far, no posts from anyone who successfully obtained service from the provider designated by Cavalli before they shut their doors.

I love my LC, but I baby it like crazy. Only listen to it once a week or so; and studiously ignore an operational glitch that has begun happening--full, unattenuated signal outputs through the headphone outputs when 1st turned on, then quickly resumes normal operation once warmed up; and try not to think about an LC-less future. 

If this unit tanks, I would either try to get it repaired; or seek out a new/used Massdrop LC-X because I find the LC's particular sonic profile hard to live without...


----------



## canthearyou

Anyone know the part number for the volume pot?


----------



## maakheru

Pharmaboy said:


> The direction this thread has taken is sad: Cavalli leaves the market; legacy LCs seem to be failing all over the place; and so far, no posts from anyone who successfully obtained service from the provider designated by Cavalli before they shut their doors.
> 
> I love my LC, but I baby it like crazy. Only listen to it once a week or so; and studiously ignore an operational glitch that has begun happening--full, unattenuated signal outputs through the headphone outputs when 1st turned on, then quickly resumes normal operation once warmed up; and try not to think about an LC-less future.
> 
> If this unit tanks, I would either try to get it repaired; or seek out a new/used Massdrop LC-X because I find the LC's particular sonic profile hard to live without...


------------------

Mine did the same thing. I sent it to Avenson Audio for repairs. $140 bucks.  I like the LCv1 too much to let it die without a fight. It works like a dream now. I use it everyday for at least 3-4 hours at a time.


----------



## Pharmaboy

maakheru said:


> ------------------
> 
> Mine did the same thing. I sent it to Avenson Audio for repairs. $140 bucks.  I like the LCv1 too much to let it die without a fight. It works like a dream now. I use it everyday for at least 3-4 hours at a time.



Is that the company Cavalli designated? How was your experience w/them?


----------



## claud W

Pharmaboy said:


> Is that the company Cavalli designated? How was your experience w/them?



Yes it sure is. Thank God someone has posted their experience with repairing a LC. So much doom and negativity in this thread lately. Love mine combined with Cord 2Qute DAC.


----------



## abvolt

Just got an email from massdrop my LCX was just shipped awesome thought it would be around the 28th, I'll be sure to post some pics of this amp inside & out I'm hoping it will sound as good as some say..enjoy


----------



## doraymon

claud W said:


> Yes it sure is. Thank God someone has posted their experience with repairing a LC. So much doom and negativity in this thread lately. Love mine combined with Cord 2Qute DAC.


I’ve been a happy owner of an LC 2.0 for a year or so and only sold it to upgrade to a Pathos Aurium.
Never had a single issue!
Now the LC is making another fellow headfier happy...


----------



## Pharmaboy

abvolt said:


> Just got an email from massdrop my LCX was just shipped awesome thought it would be around the 28th, I'll be sure to post some pics of this amp inside & out I'm hoping it will sound as good as some say..enjoy



I'm very interested in your comments about the sound of this unit. 

I don't ever want to be without an LC, and this LC-X seems to be the key to keeping it going...


----------



## PopZeus

Yeah, also received shipment notification. In building a new desktop rig based off of the LCX, I ended up getting a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC to feed it. Might be the best DAC one can get for $250, but someone in the LCX thread was recommending the audioGD R2R-1 balanced DAC. Now, the balanced XLR outs with a smooth, analog signal (with musical overtones and harmonics) is extremely interesting if it delivers on the promise of that richer sound. And the price isn't so bad either, considering upgrade. Browsing their site, it looks like a small, handmade shop. That is very cool, and it feels like it's in the spirit of Cavalli. But it also has me nervous, if this thread is any indication as to what can happen when a small company folds and can't support their products.


----------



## Ken G (Feb 24, 2018)

Audio-Gd has a solid reputation and uses quality components.  Check out some of the forums here to get a better idea. I was at a meet where several enthusiasts had Audio-gd gear sprinkled in with other really high end gear.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I'm a big Audio GD fan. Finding their gear has been one key to unlocking the headphone & desktop-audio mystery...

I have 3 AGD components now (DAC-19; NOS 19; and SA-31SE headphone amp); and owned a very powerful/good combo unit (NFB 15.32) at one time.

Their R2R DACs are extremely good, my favorite being the non-oversampling variant of the DAC-19, the NOS 19. 

I love my Liquid Carbon v2, can't imagine being without it. But the other essential piece of this puzzle, day to day, is the AGD DAC.

IMO, it's hard to go wrong w/Audio GD.


----------



## maakheru

Pharmaboy said:


> Is that the company Cavalli designated? How was your experience w/them?



Yes, it's the company recommended by Cavalli. My transaction with them went smoothly. I emailed my issue to them, they wrote back with pricing and procedures. I received the serviced amp back within 2 weeks.


----------



## abvolt (Mar 2, 2018)

Just received my Cavalli Liquid Carbon X amp from Massdrop, my first impressions are very good the music is smooth & accurate, warm sounding, also I have no experience with Cavalli's sound signature maybe someone who does can chime in if they own this amp also. I've only been listening for about 45 mins. It is packaged very well, I'm using balanced mode, I'd say if things don't go south with this amp, it's well worth the price. Also to my ears this amp sounds more open with better treble & mids on high gain just turn the volume down a little. After a few days of listening I'll open it up & get some pics of it's innards, It's really a nice looking amp in person. I'll post more thoughts later..enjoy


----------



## Pharmaboy

your initial impressions are right on track IMO. just be sure to burn that baby in...sound can change after 125-150 hrs, though not as much on my LC v2 as on some other amps and/or DACs. 

still, 1st listen impressions usually change somewhat over time (almost always for the better in my experience)...

so this has an external P.S. (wall wart?)


----------



## abvolt

I'm still listening I'll say this also the bass from this amp is really good. Yes a wall wart about 3.5-4 inchs long 1.5-2 thick seems ok, it is surprisingly good sound for an inexpensive headamp. Very happy so far with this purchase..enjoy


----------



## PopZeus

There's an actual LCX thread, but hardly anyone seems to post there. I'm just so stoked that it's shipping and I've a couple of days with it.

I flipping love this amp! The combination of the Mimby and LCX might be too dynamic for the Focal, but the E-MU Teak has never sounded better. I had grown accustomed to how smooth and soft (down low) that driver sounded. Throw all that out the window with the LCX. That almost overly dynamic sound through the Focals has just enough tempering when piped through the biocellulose driver. Bass is tight, and has serious rumble. Mids are rich with body and not as recessed, and the treble peaks are smoothed out. I imagine a ton of Fostex TH-X00 owners will want to buy this amp. I'll have to spend some more time with the Elear and LCX.


----------



## Pharmaboy

PopZeus said:


> There's an actual LCX thread, but hardly anyone seems to post there. I'm just so stoked that it's shipping and I've a couple of days with it.
> 
> I flipping love this amp! The combination of the Mimby and LCX might be too dynamic for the Focal, but the E-MU Teak has never sounded better. I had grown accustomed to how smooth and soft (down low) that driver sounded. Throw all that out the window with the LCX. That almost overly dynamic sound through the Focals has just enough tempering when piped through the biocellulose driver. Bass is tight, and has serious rumble. Mids are rich with body and not as recessed, and the treble peaks are smoothed out. I imagine a ton of Fostex TH-X00 owners will want to buy this amp. I'll have to spend some more time with the Elear and LCX.




I had the E-Mu Teaks--fascinating, great-sounding, but not very comfortable headphones--sold them a few months ago. I got the flat-out best sound out of them w/my Liquid Carbon v2. That surprised me, since a warm-ish amp like the LC + a warm-ish HP like the Teaks should = maple syrup. Not even close. The bass hit like a sledge hammer (the Teaks have world-class bass), but the rest of the frequency range was even more organic/smooth than usual.

I'm watching these comments about the LC-X w/great interest. I may pick one up sooner or later just to ensure that I'll never be w/o an LC (ie, if my original LC blows up or gets abducted by aliens, I'll have the LD-X).

LC is a must-have amp.


----------



## Odin412

Pharmaboy said:


> I'm watching these comments about the LC-X w/great interest. I may pick one up sooner or later just to ensure that I'll never be w/o an LC (ie, if my original LC blows up or gets abducted by aliens, I'll have the LD-X).
> 
> LC is a must-have amp.



Same here. I can't fathom being without the famous Cavalli sound.


----------



## BobJS

I've had my LCX running a few days.  Much better than the Violectric V181 I was using before.  Aeon Flow Open is now glued to my head.  I need to get a refrigerator and toilet in here as I can't move more than a few feet from my LCX.


----------



## abvolt

I agree my AFO + LCX make an awesome pair, I'm using all balanced mode from my DAC 10, this amp is great..enjoy


----------



## unfunk

I noticed there's SE pass through on the back. I was wondering if this output is always on, as in its always active even when the unit is powered off or when headphones are plugged in. 

Any Liquid Carbon X owners that can confirm this for me?


----------



## buldogge

unfunk said:


> I noticed there's SE pass through on the back. I was wondering if this output is always on, as in its always active even when the unit is powered off or when headphones are plugged in.
> 
> Any Liquid Carbon X owners that can confirm this for me?



It was mentioned earlier in the thread, or in the LCX specific thread, that the LCX must be powered on for the SE Pass to function properly.

-Mark in St. Louis


----------



## PopZeus

@Pharmaboy Too bad the Teaks didn't work out for you. I have no problem with the comfort level of the pads. In fact, they're one of my most comfortable headphones, with little clamping pressure or weight. The only ergonomics that get in the way is how far out the connectors stick out. If I nod off while wearing them and lean off to one side, I can actually bend the cable connector plug by pushing it into my shoulder.


----------



## Pharmaboy

PopZeus said:


> @Pharmaboy Too bad the Teaks didn't work out for you. I have no problem with the comfort level of the pads. In fact, they're one of my most comfortable headphones, with little clamping pressure or weight. The only ergonomics that get in the way is how far out the connectors stick out. If I nod off while wearing them and lean off to one side, I can actually bend the cable connector plug by pushing it into my shoulder.



I know what you mean about that connector...it was kind of hazardous, as described. I'd much rather see 3.5mm jacks than 2.5mm jacks--and ideally they'll be located somewhat forward of the very bottom of each earcup, if not also overtly angled forward.

I have regrets about the E-Mu Teak. The only real reason I considered selling was comfort, which I just couldn't improve by padrolling w/o hurting that terrific sound (though there were a few el cheapo pad tricks left to try). 

The sound of those Teaks w/my Liquid Carbon was really spectacular. Not endgame, not really better than my ZMF Ori, definitely not better than the Eikon (which I've heard extensively & am very impressed by). Still, at its price point, it's hard to beat the Teaks. BTW, I listened to them only via balanced cables, which may have had something to do w/that excellent sound I was getting.


----------



## snip3r77

How is the MD LCX compares to say Mjolnir2?
Is it a good combo for my Audeze LCD-X ?

Thanks


----------



## Ameloblast

I'm coming from a Schiit Vali 2 with Modi Multibit and looking at getting a Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon to pair with HiFiMan He-4xx and Audeze LCD2C, wondering if anyone here had gone a similar route and can comment on the sonic differences please? Thanks!


----------



## Odin412

e





Ameloblast said:


> I'm coming from a Schiit Vali 2 with Modi Multibit and looking at getting a Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon to pair with HiFiMan He-4xx and Audeze LCD2C, wondering if anyone here had gone a similar route and can comment on the sonic differences please? Thanks!



I have a Liquid Carbon (the first Cavalli version) and a Vali 2 and going from memory since I haven't used the Vali 2 for a while I would say that the LC has a more lifelike, liquid midrange and a cleaner, more refined treble. It's been a while since I compared them so YMMV.


----------



## chimney189

Has anyone tried this amplifier with the HE-1000 V2?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Never heard that one. But I own a HEX v2 and it sounds quite amazing on the LC v2. For that matter, just about every headphone I've tried on the LC sounds at least very good...


----------



## claud W

Ameloblast said:


> I'm coming from a Schiit Vali 2 with Modi Multibit and looking at getting a Massdrop x Alex Cavalli Liquid Carbon to pair with HiFiMan He-4xx and Audeze LCD2C, wondering if anyone here had gone a similar route and can comment on the sonic differences please? Thanks!



My LC v2 and Cord 2Qute replaced my Vali 2 and Modi Multi as my computer headphone system. system. I was very happy with the Schiit equipment, but decided to branch out and was very surprised how good the LC sounded with the Modimulti. I then decided to find out about Cord and decided on adding the 2Qute. This is such a nice combo, some might say end game. Check out my Sig to see what I had to get to better it for my main system.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I've heard my LC v2 only with multibit DACs: in main system it's the Audio GD NOS 19 (non-oversampling multibit); and in secondary systems it's AGD DAC-19. The sound is very engaging, better than any delta-sigma DAC I'd heard previously.

People make a big deal about presumed tonality, calling multibit (and especially NOS multibit), "warm" "rolled off" "slow" and other simplistic characterizations. They say pretty much the same thing about the LC itself.

I find that combining multibit w/the LC does not result in addition of these presumed sound signatures. Reality is not nearly that simple. If I used high resolution headphones on this combo, I get high resolution sound. If I use "warm" headphones, I may or may not get a warm resulting presentation. What I don't get is brash, bright, 2-dimensional, spotlighted, or hyped sound.

It's best of all w/NOS 19 in the chain, and nearly as good w/DAC-19.


----------



## vitalogyx (Aug 3, 2019)

Guys,

My LC v2 suffered from SE channel imbalance for a while. The issue was felt when I used SE input. It seemed to behave in a similar fashion as reported in this thread.
I had no issues going balanced input, driving either SE or BAL headphones.

Today I took apart the unit.
I had to pull off the vol knob and undo all but the SE binding post screw on the back.

To my surprise, I found the pcb covered in Aluminum dust that was created by the self threading screws.
More so near the phase splitter / op amp section close to the SE input side right next to the input selection relays.

I brushed off the board off this metal particulate dust, reassembled and sat down for a listen.

The imbalance is gone !!!
No more LR imbalance or degraded sound.

I was actually trying to locate a bad component on the pcb or locate and swap out the phase splitter components, but all it took was an old tooth brush.

I will post pictures if anyone is interested.

Aj


----------



## Hooster

vitalogyx said:


> 000
> To my surprise, I found the pcb covered in Aluminum dust that was created by the self threading screws.



Yikes...


----------



## kellte2

vitalogyx said:


> Guys,
> 
> My LC v2 suffered from SE channel imbalance for a while. The issue was felt when I used SE input. It seemed to behave in a similar fashion as reported in this thread.
> I had no issues going balanced input, driving either SE or BAL headphones.
> ...



No wonder there were so many failures.


----------



## musiclvr

vitalogyx said:


> Guys,
> 
> My LC v2 suffered from SE channel imbalance for a while. The issue was felt when I used SE input. It seemed to behave in a similar fashion as reported in this thread.
> I had no issues going balanced input, driving either SE or BAL headphones.
> ...


I’m definitely interested in pics! I just might do the same to my LC v2 for peace of mind sake.


----------



## vitalogyx

Hi,

I had my LC v2 act up again with imbalance.
I switch back n forth between BAL and SE all the time.
Toggling the SE / Bal push switch seems to fix the issue. I guess I still haven’t got to the bottom of this.

Picture of ten SE input components that will need cleaning attached. This area front and back are prone to a lot of Aluminum dust.

I took this pic after I cleaned the board.

Aj


----------



## sahmen

vitalogyx said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had my LC v2 act up again with imbalance.
> I switch back n forth between BAL and SE all the time.
> ...



So...  errrr....where are the pics?


----------



## vitalogyx

Oops 
Here we go !!


----------



## defbear

Great! Just great.


----------



## vitalogyx

How does the HD800 sound with the LC v2 compared to the amp section of the HDVD800 Or the HDVA600

Aj


----------



## pippen99

The new Liquid Carbon.

Couldn't resist.(Ford GT Liquid Carbon)


----------



## CEE TEE

^Wow.  That looks fantastic.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Where do the headphones plug in?


----------



## defbear

Pharmaboy said:


> Where do the headphones plug in?


Passenger side to the right ;>


----------



## Pharmaboy (Mar 7, 2020)

Apropos of nothing, another tale of the LC v2:

During the last year I had the luxury of borrowing my friend's ZMF Aeolus (sapele wood) 3 or 4 times. These were pretty long loans, never less than 2 weeks, and most recently, nearly 2 months. So I became very familiar w/the Aeolus, totally fell in love with it, then just before Xmas ordered my own blackwood Aeolus. Mind you, in all that time I almost certainly used the borrowed Aeolus w/my LC v2, but just don't recall the sound (I have 7 amps...I move it around).

So after fully burning in my new Aeolus, in past couple weeks I began trying it on various amps, getting very good sound (but somewhat different sound) for each amp. This headphone is definitely _not_ amp-picky. Last week it was the turn of the LC v2.

From the 1st note I got one of those fortuitous, unexpected synergy experiences. Unexpected because the Aeolus is somewhat warm sounding even w/the most neutral of the pad options; and so is the LC v2. Warm + warm should = treacle (sugar sludge). But that's not what I got. Instead I heard:

Unusually neutral & controlled sound for the Aeolus, top to bottom.
Still slightly warm, but not as warm as on other, theoretically better amps (such as V281)
LC v2 has more than enough power for this 300 ohm headphone--couldn't get the volume past 11:30AM on low gain
Overall, the control & neutrality paralleled what I get with the OTL tube amp (Woo WA3), which tends to level out the sound of any/all high impedance headphones
This wasn't the 1st time the LC v2 did this synergy trick. Not only do I love the basic sound signature of this amp & its small but potent form factor--I also like not knowing which headphone(s) it will "lock in" with in unexpected ways.

I've never regretted getting this amp for even a second...


----------



## adobotj

I don't know what thread to post this but since the receiver of my chain is my liquid carbon I will just post here. 

I would just like to ask if anyone here knows if this is possible? 





Unbalanced R/L RCA from Hugo to R/L xlr balanced input of the LC. I used a RCA to XLR cable. 

Will it cause any issues on the LC? i.e. Internal circuitry problems, short circuit, etc? 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!


----------



## pippen99

I don't know if it will be a problem but is unnecessary.  The LC has a splitter which will convert unbalanced inputs to balanced output.  Go RCA to RCA.


----------



## MalinYamato

I am interested in this amp, the drop version, as it is a much cheaper option than Jotunheim and Drop THX AAA. How would a relative warm headphone such as DEnon D7200 and the sharper Sundara sound with it?


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 3, 2020)

MalinYamato said:


> I am interested in this amp, the drop version, as it is a much cheaper option than Jotunheim and Drop THX AAA. How would a relative warm headphone such as DEnon D7200 and the sharper Sundara sound with it?



I have the said-to-be identical sounding Liquid Carbon V2...it's one of my favorite amps. Perhaps the most intriguing thing about the LC v2 is that it will inpredictably "lock in" & create synergy with this or that headphone I really wouldn't expect to sound good with it (ie, Fidelio X2; Aeolus; Marantz MPH-2; modded HD650). These headphones are all warm to one degree or other, and so is the LC v2. Warm + warm should = surgary/treacle, right? Wrong.

This amp will really surprise you. I would expect it to sound great w/the Sundara, which is pretty sharp. But it may well sound amazing w/the D7200, too. It's that kind of amp.

And for what it's worth, this amp has plenty of power for most headphones; a balanced output (very handy for those of us w/balanced cable); and at least to my ears, no significant disparity in sound quality between SE vs balanced output.


----------



## 394216

vitalogyx said:


> Guys,
> 
> My LC v2 suffered from SE channel imbalance for a while. The issue was felt when I used SE input. It seemed to behave in a similar fashion as reported in this thread.
> I had no issues going balanced input, driving either SE or BAL headphones.
> ...



Was it easy to take apart? Can you guide me through the process? Just bought a used LC 2.0 and I might do what you did when it arrives. And also spray DeOxit F5 on the volume pot while I'm at it.


----------



## vitalogyx

torpedorag said:


> Was it easy to take apart? Can you guide me through the process? Just bought a used LC 2.0 and I might do what you did when it arrives. And also spray DeOxit F5 on the volume pot while I'm at it.


The Chanel imbalance is something to do with the splitter circuit and only felt while using the SE inputs.
I Thought I did but the issue resurfaced. 
I settled from using the balanced inputs fed from an affordable dac - the Dac magic plus...

plus the alps pot won’t need deoxit I suppose.

If I remember correctly Pull off the knob for the vol pot. 
undo the screws in the front. They are TORX. 
Only remove screws in the 4 corners in the back.
I remember the pcb slides out along with either the front panel or the back panel attached.

I don’t remember removing the screw next to the se input post.

Good luck.
Aj


----------



## 394216 (Jul 2, 2020)

vitalogyx said:


> The Chanel imbalance is something to do with the splitter circuit and only felt while using the SE inputs.
> I Thought I did but the issue resurfaced.
> I settled from using the balanced inputs fed from an affordable dac - the Dac magic plus...
> 
> ...



In my case, I had to DeOxit the Alps pot on my Soloist SL. Same problem, channel imbalance and scratchy noise. After spraying, works like a charm for almost 1 year now.

But yeah, I understand that the LC has a splitter circuit unlike my Soloist and that might also be the culprit.


----------



## vitalogyx (Jul 2, 2020)

torpedorag said:


> In my case, I had to DeOxit the Alps pot on my Soloist SL. Same problem, channel imbalance and scratchy noise. After spraying, works like a charm for almost 1 year now.


Wow, that’s good to know.
I got one on order to fix old stereo selector switches.


----------



## 394216

vitalogyx said:


> Wow, that’s good to know.
> I got one on order to fix old stereo selector switches.


Do let me know if that fixes your problem with the LC. I have no dac with balanced out atm so I'm trying to rule out the splitter circuit problem. And I haven't received my LC at this point LOL.


----------



## vitalogyx (Jul 2, 2020)

torpedorag said:


> Do let me know if that fixes your problem with the LC. I have no dac with balanced out atm so I'm trying to rule out the splitter circuit problem. And I haven't received my LC at this point LOL.


Not gonna be using deoxit on the LC atm.
i gotta go in with a scopemeter to do the troubleshooting and trace the signal to hopefully nail the culprit. Not gonna happen any time soon but once I find a fix, I will keep this thread posted.

my LC is sitting overseas. Gotta get to it first


----------



## 394216

vitalogyx said:


> Not gonna be using deoxit on the LC atm.
> *i gotta go in with a scope to do the troubleshooting To trace the signal and laid the culprit.* Not gonna happen any time soon but once I find a fix will keep this thread posted.



That's a better way to do it. I don't have any skills tinkering with electrical stuff so maybe I just got lucky with my Soloist.


----------



## Odin412

I sometimes forget just how good the Liquid Carbon still is. I tried it again with the ZMF Atticus last night using the suede pads and the balanced output. Wow - that combo is amazing!


----------



## Pharmaboy

I never forget how good the LC is because I use it often. I have 6 amps to use in 2 separate desktop systems (5 ft. apart), one of which has 2 amps at all times. I rotate the LC v2 in and out at least 1/2 the time. Right now it's in my side-system/HP only, where lately it has really rocked my brain on the following headphones (balanced output only):

(newest) Final D8000 w/"G" pads ... an amazing planar
Verite Open ... outstanding dynamic HP, the best I've yet heard
ZMF Aeolus
ZMF Ori ... bass for days (love this HP)
You look at the LC and think, "This thing can't possibly be as powerful or good-sounding as I remember it being." Then you listen to it again--and it totally is. 

I have 3 solid state amps that IMO define my endgame SS sound, albeit in slightly different ways:

Violectric V281 -- the best of the best
LC v2 -- very very good sound
Lake People G109-A -- single ended only  and the best I've heard at that


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Pharmaboy said:


> I never forget how good the LC is because I use it often. I have 6 amps to use in 2 separate desktop systems (5 ft. apart), one of which has 2 amps at all times. I rotate the LC v2 in and out at least 1/2 the time. Right now it's in my side-system/HP only, where lately it has really rocked my brain on the following headphones (balanced output only):
> 
> (newest) Final D8000 w/"G" pads ... an amazing planar
> Verite Open ... outstanding dynamic HP, the best I've yet heard
> ...



The Liquid Carbon versions are all nice sounding amps. But the Monoprice Liquid Gold X is better and a much better representation of the Cavalli sound than the Liquid Carbon variations. 

I have a Liquid Carbon v1 and the Massdrop version Liquid Carbon. Then I got the Liquid Gold X and that pretty much replaced the Liquid Carbon variations. The Liquid Gold X is just better. The advantage for the Liquid Carbon V1 and V2 is form factor size for transportable use and no wall wart style power supply wart that takes up space when packing it up for carry-on luggage.


----------



## Odin412

*Cavalli Liquid Carbon – Schiit Jotunheim 2 - Cavalli Liquid Gold X Listening Comparisons*

(I’ve taken the liberty of cross-posting this across the three amp threads – apologies in advance if you subscribe to all of them.)

Since I now have three balanced solid-state amps I thought that it would be fun to compare them using the ZMF Aeolus using the single-ended outputs. I plan to try the balanced outputs at a later date. My playback chain is a Windows 10 laptop running J River - Schiit Bifrost Multibit – Lokius (in bypass mode) – SYS – distribution amp – headphone amps.

Here are my impressions:


The Liquid Carbon is a great match with the Aeolus and delivers a very enjoyable sound with the trademark Cavalli liquid midrange. The tube-like character of this amp lets the best aspects of the Aeolus really shine.
The Jotunheim 2 sounds very similar to the Liquid Carbon. This was a bit of a surprise for me. In fact, if this were a blind test I’m not sure that I would be able to reliably tell them apart. The Liquid Carbon has maybe a slightly more expressive and liquid midrange, but the differences are small.
The biggest change when switching to the Liquid Gold X is more bass body and impact. The midrange also comes across as slightly more open and clear, but with the trademark Cavalli liquidness.
Other random observations:


All of these three amps sound great to my ears and the differences between them are surprisingly small – we’re talking different flavors here.
The Cavalli Liquid Carbon is still a great amplifier after several years – it was released in 2015.
The Jotunheim 2 is a great amp – especially considering its price of only $399.
You can tell that the Liquid Gold X is a step up from the Liquid Carbon, but the family resemblance is still there.
The Aelous is one of the most enjoyable headphones that I have ever heard. It really lets you forget about technology and just immerse yourself in the music.
So which one of these amps is my favorite? Actually, none of them – my favorite pairing with the Aeolus is the Cavalli Liquid Platinum with a pair of vintage Amperex tubes or the Woo Audio WA3. YMMV, as always.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Ham Sandwich said:


> The Liquid Carbon versions are all nice sounding amps. But the Monoprice Liquid Gold X is better and a much better representation of the Cavalli sound than the Liquid Carbon variations.
> 
> I have a Liquid Carbon v1 and the Massdrop version Liquid Carbon. Then I got the Liquid Gold X and that pretty much replaced the Liquid Carbon variations. The Liquid Gold X is just better. The advantage for the Liquid Carbon V1 and V2 is form factor size for transportable use and no wall wart style power supply wart that takes up space when packing it up for carry-on luggage.


I read your comments about the Monoprice Liquid Gold and get a little pang of regret. I bought one brand new/full price 13 months ago. Things went south when I realized I needed a driver for the built-in DAC to go w/my Windows 7 computers. It took 1-2 weeks of trying to reach Monoprice to finally be told there were no drivers. Too bad for me.

The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth--not because I needed the DAC (I don't), but because:

I wouldn't even be able to check if the DAC worked
And the larger issue was that I realized Monoprice has no support whatsoever for boxes like this. Buy one and you're on your own if it needs service. Maybe the company that services Cavalli gear would be willing to help, but maybe not
So I ended up returning it for credit w/o even hearing it. 

I look back on that with some regret: I bought it because I liked the LC's sound so much, and the LG was described much as you did in this post--ie, well worth having for anyone who likes Cavalli SS sound. 

Just checked Monoprice & find it's now $200 off what I paid ($799). I wouldn't mind picking up one of these used, but can't find any. 

I'm OK with just about everything I ever did buying/selling in this hobby, but the Liquid Gold does feel like "the one that got away."


----------



## sahmen

Odin412 said:


> *Cavalli Liquid Carbon – Schiit Jotunheim 2 - Cavalli Liquid Gold X Listening Comparisons*
> 
> (I’ve taken the liberty of cross-posting this across the three amp threads – apologies in advance if you subscribe to all of them.)
> 
> ...


Very glad you added the last sentence.  I was wondering where the LP stood in comparison with the others when I started reading your post, and its absence was like a deafening silence.  By the way I also own the OG Liquid Carbon and the Liquid Platinum, and while I adore them both, I think the LP has a considerable edge, especially, when one factors in the tube-rolling and the versatility it adds in producing different flavors.  Sadly, the Liquid Gold X has never really tempted me because of a prejudice I have against what I consider to be "tacked-on" DACs.

Before anyone tries to shoot me down for my remark about the L. Gold X, just note that I am speaking candidly of a prejudice that I find hard to shake.  Fortunately, I have never heard the Liquid Gold x and can't comment on how it actually sounds, so I am not judging it as a unit per se, again, because of that good old "prejudice"


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Pharmaboy said:


> I'm OK with just about everything I ever did buying/selling in this hobby, but the Liquid Gold does feel like "the one that got away."



You can always buy it again. And get it when it's on sale and save $200.
I bought my Liquid Gold X right after it was released. Paid full MSRP. I knew Monoprice would put it on sale later. But didn't care. Don't care. A couple hundred bucks difference isn't going to affect whether I buy or not buy an amp like this.

I don't care about the DAC. I don't plan on using it other than as a convenience DAC for if/when I take the Gold X traveling. I don't care if the DAC added $100 or $200 to the overall price. I bought the amp for the amp section. And that amp section is worth $1000 to me. And I'm fine with spending that much on it.

If you want to test the DAC you could use a Raspberry Pi or an Android phone running USB Audio Player Pro. That would allow you to test the DAC and hear what it sounds like (it sounds like a typical AKM DAC).


----------



## You Kay

I’ve owned the mk1 Cavalli Liquid Carbon which was OK with grado ps500e but I only used it in single ended as I didn’t have a balanced headphone cable at the time. Nor could I conjure up the effort to mod the grado.

Now I’ve recently picked up a mk2 at a great price. Looking forward to setting it up with Abyss 1266phiTC in the coming months.

Now my only concern reading through this thread is that what if one day it develops a fault? My last unit worked absolutely fine but in the event of a failure where might one go for repairs?

Btw I still love the Cavalli styling and form factor of this amp. Super cool.


----------



## pippen99

https://avensonaudio.com/cavallirepair/


----------



## You Kay

pippen99 said:


> https://avensonaudio.com/cavallirepair/


You sir, are a great guy. Such a relief, thank you. 🙏


----------



## Ham Sandwich

pippen99 said:


> https://avensonaudio.com/cavallirepair/



I don't believe Avenson is specially able to repair the Massdrop Cavalli amps or the Monoprice Cavalli amps. Avenson is the place to go for repairs and maintenance of the big Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Gold, Lightning, Carbon). That's because Avenson is the place that Cavalli contracted to build those amps. So Avenson knows the amps and may even have some spare parts. Avenson didn't build or have anything to do with the Massdrop Cavalli amps or the Monoprice Cavalli amps. So I doubt they'd be able to help repair those amps any more than a general audio repair tech in your city could.

For the Massdrop produced Cavalli amps you'll have to contact Massdrop for repair options or repair suggestions.

For the Monoprice produced Cavalli amps you'll have to contact Monoprice for repair options or repair suggestions.


----------



## Odin412

*Cavalli Liquid Carbon – Schiit Jotunheim 2 - Cavalli Liquid Gold X Listening Comparisons (Balanced)*

(I’ve taken the liberty of cross-posting this across the three amp threads – apologies in advance if you subscribe to all of them.)

Following my initial comparison of the three amps using the single-ended output I thought that it would be fun to do the same using the balanced outputs. My playback chain is a Windows 11 laptop running J River - Schiit Bifrost Multibit – Lokius (in bypass mode) – SYS – distribution amp – headphone amps.

However, this task turned out to be harder than I expected. Using the ZMF Aeolus I wasn’t able to hear any meaningful differences between the amps. I then switched to the Beyerdynamic T1.2 and heard only very minor differences. Finally, I switched to planar magnetic headphones and tried the DCA Aeon Flow Closed and Audeze LCD-2.

Here are my impressions:


The Liquid Carbon is a great match with all four headphones and delivers a very enjoyable sound with the trademark Cavalli liquid midrange.
The Jotunheim 2 sounds very similar to the Liquid Carbon, but with a very slightly fuller sound in the upper bass/lower midrange area. I found the sound from the Jotunheim 2 to be really enjoyable.
Switching to the Liquid Gold X there was a slightly punchier bass and an ever so slightly smoother treble. The midrange also came across as slightly more open, but with the trademark Cavalli liquidness.
In summary, all of the three amps sound great to my ears and the differences between them are very small (and smaller than the differences that I heard using the single ended outputs) – we’re talking very slightly different flavors here.

So which one of these amps is my favorite? It depends on the headphone. I really enjoy the Jotunheim 2 with the T1.2 and I enjoy the Liquid Gold X with the LCD-2. However, I could live happily with any of the three amps. YMMV, as always.


----------



## Endless_Chris

Ham Sandwich said:


> I don't believe Avenson is specially able to repair the Massdrop Cavalli amps or the Monoprice Cavalli amps. Avenson is the place to go for repairs and maintenance of the big Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Gold, Lightning, Carbon). That's because Avenson is the place that Cavalli contracted to build those amps. So Avenson knows the amps and may even have some spare parts. Avenson didn't build or have anything to do with the Massdrop Cavalli amps or the Monoprice Cavalli amps. So I doubt they'd be able to help repair those amps any more than a general audio repair tech in your city could.
> 
> For the Massdrop produced Cavalli amps you'll have to contact Massdrop for repair options or repair suggestions.
> 
> For the Monoprice produced Cavalli amps you'll have to contact Monoprice for repair options or repair suggestions.


Thank you for this. My original production Liquid Carbon has just started to fail and I was somewhat distraught as to how to get it repaired.


----------



## heliosphann

Endless_Chris said:


> Thank you for this. My original production Liquid Carbon has just started to fail and I was somewhat distraught as to how to get it repaired.


I had a v1 with a "Lifetime Warranty." Then Cavalli shuttered and a few months later it took a dump on me.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Nov 22, 2021)

heliosphann said:


> a few months later it took a dump on me


God, I hope that's a figure of speech.

I love my LC v2. If it crapped out, I'd have to spend real bucks to try to get it repaired. But it runs perfectly.*

I have a lifetime warranty on the LC, too. But that was another lifetime.

*I have 7 amps and use the LC only 3-4X a year, never for more than a day or two here and there. So it has few hours and little real wear once the 150 hr burn-in was complete.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

There is the Massdrop Liquid Carbon X that I'd consider a suitable replacement if a Liquid Carbon V1 or V2 died and was not repairable. There are more LCx amps in the wild than the LC V1 or V2. So more likely to be able to find a LCx on the used market.

I own three of the Cavalli Audio amps (Fire, Glass, Carbon V1). If anyone should be upset about Cavalli Audio closing and loss of warranty it should be me. And I'm not upset about it at all. It is what it is. Alex has always been a good guy and generous with his support of DIY. I have no bad feelings about Cavalli Audio shutting down. I know to send the amps to Avenson Audio if they ever need repair, and cross my fingers that it is something that is repairable.

There is always a risk when buying from a smaller boutique style audio company run by one person. A risk that the company may no longer be there in 5 or 10 years. If you want longer term stability then buy something like a McIntosh headphone amp. McIntosh is going to be around for a while and supporting their older gear. And some of their headphone amps sound pretty good.

My only regret with Cavalli Audio shutting down is that I never bought a Liquid Crimson and the Liquid Tungsten tube amp never happened.


----------



## Odin412

Ham Sandwich said:


> My only regret with Cavalli Audio shutting down is that I never bought a Liquid Crimson and the Liquid Tungsten tube amp never happened.


I keep hoping that Monoprice will resurrect the Liquid Tungsten and Liquid Glass as X models like they did with the Liquid Gold. There was also a Liquid Ambience prototype that sounded really good. Drop and Monoprice, are you listening?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Odin412 said:


> I keep hoping that Monoprice will resurrect the Liquid Tungsten and Liquid Glass as X models like they did with the Liquid Gold. There was also a Liquid Ambience prototype that sounded really good. Drop and Monoprice, are you listening?


Damn. Never even heard of these 3 Cavalli variants. Now I want to hear more...I've turned into a Cavalli fanboy, or as much as one can be in 2021.

_Curses_!


----------



## jonathan c

Odin412 said:


> I keep hoping that Monoprice will resurrect the Liquid Tungsten and Liquid Glass as X models like they did with the Liquid Gold. There was also a Liquid Ambience prototype that sounded really good. Drop and Monoprice, are you listening?


Indeed, and don’t be ‘Cavallier’ about it…😆


----------



## Odin412

jonathan c said:


> Indeed, and don’t be ‘Cavallier’ about it…😆


Good one!


----------



## Odin412

Pharmaboy said:


> Damn. Never even heard of these 3 Cavalli variants. Now I want to hear more...I've turned into a Cavalli fanboy, or as much as one can be in 2021.
> 
> _Curses_!


The Liquid Glass was a tube hybrid amp designed specifically for tube rollers. It had sockets for small (e.g. 6922) and large (e.g. 6SN7) tubes. I had a chance to listen to it at one of the Newport Beach audio shows at a MrSpeakers (now Dan Clark Audio) stand next to a Schiit Ragnarok v1 (solid state) and Woo Audio WA5 (300B based). The Ragnarok was crisp and clean and the WA5 was super lush sounding and I remember that the Liquid Glass was a perfect mix of the two other amps.

The Liquid Tungsten was a flagship tube amp that just made it into a final prototype form before Cavalli Audio closed shop. I listened to a couple of prototype versions and it was always excellent. BTW the design of the final version was quite interesting - it looked like something that Darth Vader would have on his desk.

The Liquid Ambience was kind of a single-ended version of the Liquid Platinum. I listened to a prototype and I recall that it sounded even more smooth and 'tubey' than the Liquid Platinum (which was also in prototype form at that time).


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 23, 2021)

Speaking of which, I would like to see: (1) a balanced-only (no SE sockets) LP with a linear  (not switching-mode) power supply; (2) a SE only (no XLR sockets) LP with a linear (not switching-mode) power supply; (3) premium capacitors in (1) and in (2). “Monoprice, where are you….?”


----------



## heliosphann

Ham Sandwich said:


> There is the Massdrop Liquid Carbon X that I'd consider a suitable replacement if a Liquid Carbon V1 or V2 died and was not repairable. There are more LCx amps in the wild than the LC V1 or V2. So more likely to be able to find a LCx on the used market.
> 
> I own three of the Cavalli Audio amps (Fire, Glass, Carbon V1). If anyone should be upset about Cavalli Audio closing and loss of warranty it should be me. And I'm not upset about it at all. It is what it is. Alex has always been a good guy and generous with his support of DIY. I have no bad feelings about Cavalli Audio shutting down. I know to send the amps to Avenson Audio if they ever need repair, and cross my fingers that it is something that is repairable.
> 
> ...



I had a v1, v2 and LCX at the same time and didn't think the X was anywhere near as good as the v1/v2.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Odin412 said:


> The Liquid Glass was a tube hybrid amp designed specifically for tube rollers. It had sockets for small (e.g. 6922) and large (e.g. 6SN7) tubes. I had a chance to listen to it at one of the Newport Beach audio shows at a MrSpeakers (now Dan Clark Audio) stand next to a Schiit Ragnarok v1 (solid state) and Woo Audio WA5 (300B based). The Ragnarok was crisp and clean and the WA5 was super lush sounding and I remember that the Liquid Glass was a perfect mix of the two other amps.



The Liquid Glass is a chameleon that changes with different tubes. The sound qualities and style depends *a lot* on the tubes used. It's a hybrid where the tubes define the sound and the solid state is there just to let the tubes fly their freak flag.

The Glass is kind of the flip side of the Fire/Crimson/Platinum. The Fire/Crimson/Platinum have about 75% of their sound defined by the solid state side of the amp. The tubes only affect the remaining 25%. The Glass is the opposite. The tubes define about 80% of the sound qualities while the solid state side about 20%. Changing tubes in the Liquid Glass makes a big difference. Changing tubes in the Fire/Crimson/Platinum makes a small relative difference. I can get the Glass to have a very mid forward sound with some tubes, or get it to have a very mid set-back sound with some tubes. I can get the Glass to have more transient emphasis with some tubes, or get it to sound woolly or mushy. If you want to describe the sound of the Liquid Glass you have to also state what tubes were used and what those tubes sound like. It's a fun amp.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

heliosphann said:


> I had a v1, v2 and LCX at the same time and didn't think the X was anywhere near as good as the v1/v2.



The LCX isn't as good as the V1 or V2, but I consider it close enough and it keeps the same style of Cavalli sound. If my LC V1 died I'd switch over to using the LCX for the purposes I use the LC for cause it's doubtful I'd be able to find a V1 or V2 on the used market. I have an LCX in the gear closet. But an even better replacement for an LC v1/v2 would be the Liquid Gold X. The Gold X is awesome. Better sonically in every way than the Carbon.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Ham Sandwich said:


> The LCX isn't as good as the V1 or V2, but I consider it close enough and it keeps the same style of Cavalli sound. If my LC V1 died I'd switch over to using the LCX for the purposes I use the LC for cause it's doubtful I'd be able to find a V1 or V2 on the used market. I have an LCX in the gear closet. But an even better replacement for an LC v1/v2 would be the Liquid Gold X. The Gold X is awesome. Better sonically in every way than the Carbon.


I'm still trying to figure out the Gold/LGX. Did a head-to-head comparison of it vs the Liquid Carbon v2 last week (headphone was Final D8000 & DAC was Audio GD DAC-19). These amps sounded ~95% the same, with the edge going to the LGX in every way. That was the best sound I've yet gotten from the D8000, which I'm finding to be a pretty fascinating headphone.

Tonight did some listening to the Verite Open (a headphone I'm intimately familiar with) on the LGX, and the results were paradoxical. In addition to all the VO's usual attributes, it sounded slightly bright, which is a first in IMS (I've heard it on 5 others amps and it never once sounded even slightly bright). 

I suspect the LGX is more susceptible to subtle HP impedance & sensitivity factors than the LC ever was. Impossible to confirm, but that's my guess. 

This isn't a knock on the LGX at all. It's more powerful than the LC, also somewhat more refined with better layering and resolution. When it locks in with a headphone, as it did with the Final D8000, the sound is exalted. But still, it seems to be more of a sonic chameleon than any of my other amps.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

jonathan c said:


> Speaking of which, I would like to see: (1) a balanced-only (no SE sockets) LP with a linear  (not switching-mode) power supply; (2) a SE only (no XLR sockets) LP with a linear (not switching-mode) power supply; (3) premium capacitors in (1) and in (2). “Monoprice, where are you….?”



A souped up LP like that would be awesome. But would have to be designed by Alex. Monoprice can't do any modifications to the amp without Alex's approval and input.

I really like the LP but it's also not up to the sonic performance of the Fire and Crimson. It can do better. There is room for improvement. The Fire and Crimson have more transparency and more of that magic that gets the Cavalli "liquid" sound to work so well. Transparency in the sense of being able to better hear through the amp and better hear what the source and headphones are doing. And that magic in the Cavalli sound is something you just have to hear and experience to understand. I consider the LP to be about 90% of the Fire. But in audiophile terms that last 10% is a doozey. A big doozey that can get audiophiles to spend a thousand bucks. Definitely room for improvement with an improved LP. 

Getting rid of the single-ended headphone output would also help in reviews. Some of the middling or not-so-good reviews of the LP have been because the reviewer used the single-ended headphone output. Even though the manual says not to use the single-ended for critical listening. The reviewers did anyways. It's like they never read the manual for the gear they review.


----------



## Ham Sandwich

Pharmaboy said:


> This isn't a knock on the LGX at all. It's more powerful than the LC, also somewhat more refined with better layering and resolution. When it locks in with a headphone, as it did with the Final D8000, the sound is exalted. But still, it seems to be more of a sonic chameleon than any of my other amps.



The Liquid Gold X is an amp that is going to be more fussy about system synergies. Synergies with the headphone and synergies with the source components. The LGX is more transparent than the Carbon, and even more transparent than my Fire or Glass. Transparency in the sense of being able to better hear through the amp and into the source components and into the characteristics of the headphone. It's a more transparent lens into the recording and into the other components in the chain. The headphones can't hide. The DAC can't hide. The quality of the recording can't hide. And it does that transparency while presenting the involving and easy to listen to Cavalli style "liquid" sound.

I can listen to a minimally mic'ed chamber orchestra recording and hear all and more of the precise 3D imaging details and micro details that I hear with the Fire and Glass. The Fire and Glass have a deeper soundstage due to 2nd harmonics from the tubes. But the Gold X has a cleaner and more transparent sound. The Carbon sounds flat and lacking that level of imaging and layering in comparison. The Gold X manages to achieve solid state sonic holography. Sonic holography is something I generally associate with very good tube amps. The Liquid Gold X is my only solid state amp that gives me a very good flavor of that sonic holography. Tube amps still have the advantage of being able to do that sonic holography thing with a deeper soundstage because of the magic of even harmonics. The Liquid Gold X is my solid state amp that lets me explore and enjoy that style of 3D sonic holography in solid state form.

But the Liquid Gold X is also very fussy about headphone tuning. Its style of transparency doesn't let wonky headphone frequency response hide. The LGX is going to pair better with some headphones than others. As an example, the LCD-2 and LCD-3 tuning works very very well with the Fire/Crimson/Platinum and also the Glass. The tubes manage to fill in the midrange where the LCD-2/LCD-3 tuning takes a downward slope. With the Fire and Glass I barely notice that the LCD-2 tuning is a bit weird. The amp and headphone sound synergizes and just sounds right together. That is not the case with the Liquid Gold X. The LGX doesn't let the wonky tuning of the LCD-2/LCD-3 hide. With the LGX I notice when a vocal or violin is in the sucked-out frequency range of the LCD-2/LCD-3. And wow, that doesn't work so well. I love the LCD-2/LCD-3 turning paired with the Fire, Platinum, and Glass. I don't like it so much with the Gold X. So with the LGX I have to find a different headphone for synergy. Maybe something with a tuning more similar to the LCD-X or the new LCD-5? Or HiFiMan Arya? Or HEDD? Or? It's good with the HD650 tuning so I'm thinking that a planar magnetic with that style of midrange tuning will have better synergy. I haven't been able to demo and find that right headphone synergy due to the pandemic. It's something I need to demo in person to find. I can't rely on reviews. When the pandemic is over and I can demo comfortably in person I'll find headphones with that magical synergy with the LGX. Even if it means an LCD-5. The LGX is worth getting good headphones for.

I can EQ the LCD-2 and fix the midrange issue when playing through the LGX. But I don't like using EQ. My goal is to build a chain that doesn't need EQ to sound good to me. I find that digital EQ does more harm than good to the 3D imaging sonic holography that I like to listen for. Especially with minimally mic'ed style acoustic recordings. So I'm not going to pick a headphone that relies on EQ to get it to sound right. It has to sound good to me without EQ or it's not going to work for me.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Ham Sandwich said:


> The Liquid Gold X is an amp that is going to be more fussy about system synergies. Synergies with the headphone and synergies with the source components. The LGX is more transparent than the Carbon, and even more transparent than my Fire or Glass. Transparency in the sense of being able to better hear through the amp and into the source components and into the characteristics of the headphone. It's a more transparent lens into the recording and into the other components in the chain. The headphones can't hide. The DAC can't hide. The quality of the recording can't hide. And it does that transparency while presenting the involving and easy to listen to Cavalli style "liquid" sound.
> 
> I can listen to a minimally mic'ed chamber orchestra recording and hear all and more of the precise 3D imaging details and micro details that I hear with the Fire and Glass. The Fire and Glass have a deeper soundstage due to 2nd harmonics from the tubes. But the Gold X has a cleaner and more transparent sound. The Carbon sounds flat and lacking that level of imaging and layering in comparison. The Gold X manages to achieve solid state sonic holography. Sonic holography is something I generally associate with very good tube amps. The Liquid Gold X is my only solid state amp that gives me a very good flavor of that sonic holography. Tube amps still have the advantage of being able to do that sonic holography thing with a deeper soundstage because of the magic of even harmonics. The Liquid Gold X is my solid state amp that lets me explore and enjoy that style of 3D sonic holography in solid state form.
> 
> ...


Thanks for a terrific post. There's much quality observation & speculation here.

I can tell you that the Final D8000 really locks in with the LGX. That's intriguing because the D8K itself is a most revealing headphone--revealing and yet quite musical. Both my planars (Ori and D8K) sound great on the LGX. That may in part be due to the more linear impedance/by/frequency characteristics of planar drivers (or maybe something else besides). The Ori is a power hog, not very sensitive, while the D8K is pretty sensitive/efficient.


----------



## door1002 (Jan 7, 2022)

Hi, I just bought a pre-owned Liquid Carbon (V1 not massdrop) from Head-fi

The first day is fine, but when I turned it on last night I found my LC have some problems with the volume; btw I used 6.3 jack, the sound form left channel is super large
After couple mins, the sound from left channel became lower, but still when I turn the volume all the way down I can hear some sound from the left channel.

Anyone had this problem and replaced it themselves? Any recommendation for a replacement part?

Thank you guys
Ryan


----------



## jarnopp

door1002 said:


> Hi, I just bought a pre-owned Liquid Carbon (V1 not massdrop) from Head-fi
> 
> The first day is fine, but when I turned it on last night I found my LC have some problems with the volume; the sound form left channel is super large
> After couple mins, the sound from left channel became lower, but still when I turn the volume all the way down I can hear some sound from the left channel.
> ...


There was a channel imbalance with some of the original units. I had mine repaired, when Cavalier was still operating. They replaced the entire board, because he said he couldn’t find anything wrong. But in later correspondence, he did indicate that they had found some issue. Not sure what that was specifically, so can’t provide you specific advice on which part(s) might need replacing. 

Good luck, it’s a great sounding HP amp!


----------



## eyoon

door1002 said:


> Hi, I just bought a pre-owned Liquid Carbon (V1 not massdrop) from Head-fi
> 
> The first day is fine, but when I turned it on last night I found my LC have some problems with the volume; btw I used 6.3 jack, the sound form left channel is super large
> After couple mins, the sound from left channel became lower, but still when I turn the volume all the way down I can hear some sound from the left channel.
> ...



The Cavalli folks told me it was “normal” to hear sound when the volume is turned all the way down (even though I’ve never experienced this on any other amp). 

It doesn’t always happen, but it’s not uncommon for there to be channel imbalance for the first 5 minutes or so after turning it on.


----------



## door1002

Thanks for advice,

My seller suggest me to try XLR output, and I also read one comment from the other seller mentioned that 6.3mm might damage LC circuit.

So I am just waiting for my XLR cable which is on the half way shipping now.

Thank you guys and reply, I will keep updated after I receive my parcel.


----------



## heliosphann

door1002 said:


> Thanks for advice,
> 
> My seller suggest me to try XLR output, and I also read one comment from the other seller mentioned that 6.3mm might damage LC circuit.
> 
> ...


From what I remember even Cavalli recommended you use the XLR out for optimal performance. The 6.35mm out was only implemented for convenience.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jan 9, 2022)

door1002 said:


> Thanks for advice,
> 
> My seller suggest me to try XLR output, and I also read one comment from the other seller mentioned that 6.3mm might damage LC circuit.
> 
> ...


I really hope you get this sorted out, because this amp's sound is good beyond any proportion to its size and price.

I've had many amps, easily a dozen or more (currently have 7), but the Liquid Carbon v2 keeps impressing me. It's not a TOTL amp and was never intended to be, but its sound is so well chosen. It complements every headphone I ever tried on it, and there have been many.*

I've been having fun recently comparing it to the Monoprice Liquid Gold X, which is bigger and even more powerful--but there are no losers in this comparison.

*I use it only with balanced cables/headphones. If I tried the 6.35 output it was momentarily years ago...


----------



## door1002 (Jan 12, 2022)

Pharmaboy said:


> I really hope you get this sorted out, because this amp's sound is good beyond any proportion to its size and price.
> 
> I've had many amps, easily a dozen or more (currently have 7), but the Liquid Carbon v2 keeps impressing me. It's not a TOTL amp and was never intended to be, but its sound is so well chosen. It complements every headphone I ever tried on it, and there have been many.*
> 
> ...


Hey guys I am here again to update

I got my 4-pin XLR cable and use it today, in the begin I turn the volume down to the minimum, my left channel still sounds like 12 o'clock, it is not just imbalanced, it is super loud

After 10 mins later, it is better for the imbalanced, but you still can tell there was different volume from left and right, so what I was doing to turn down the volume setting from my laptop (I always use 95% volume for laptop output) then turning up by LC knob, to make the effect of imbalance less

In the afternoon, the imbalance was much better, I can turn laptop volume back to 95%, knob was around 9 o'clock and only slightly different. In the minimum volume still hear something from left, but in an acceptable range,

I left LC power on and went out, when I came back after dinner, the left channel became loud again like 10 o'clock, I dont know why, so frustrated .
The way I do now is to turn LC to the maximum 100% then controlling the volume by laptop, really dont know what else i can do

by the way the right channel is always fully functional as turning the knob

If someone know what the problem is, please please give me a note, thanks
Ryan


----------



## vitalogyx (Jan 12, 2022)

door1002 said:


> Hey guys I am here again to update
> 
> I got my 4-pin XLR cable and use it today, in the begin I turn the volume down to the minimum, my left channel still sounds like 12 o'clock, it is not just imbalanced, it is super loud
> 
> ...


Hi Ryan

I understand your frustration. I’m on the same boat as you are. I couldn’t make heads or tails out of the V1 and the V2. I have both.
From what I’m told, there is a phase splitter employed in circuitry that is splitting the unbalanced input to balanced signal before doing the amplification.

( funny thing is one unit works flawlessly with balanced input irrespective of what output you use and one works great with single ended input. - big reason I did not go further to try n fix the unit)

I was planning to troubleshoot with my scope meter, but gave up. Will give it a try n let you know before end of Jan.

Aj


----------



## door1002 (Jan 12, 2022)

vitalogyx said:


> Hi Ryan
> 
> I understand your frustration. I’m on the same boat as you are. I couldn’t make heads or tails out of the V1 and the V2. I have both.
> From what I’m told, there is a phase splitter employed in circuitry that is splitting the unbalanced input to balanced signal before doing the amplification.
> ...


Appreciate it ~~~ look forward to the troubelshoot

By the way, my device is laptop -> 3.5mm to dual RCA input -> LC -> 4pin XLR output

The reason I did not use XLR for input is I dont have any DAC, yet
And one thing I found is even I use RCA input, when I switch to XLR input which I didnt connect with anything then turning the volume up, I still can hear a slight music from left channel, just for your reference

Thanks again
Ryan

yeah.......... maybe I should try 3.5mm to dual XLR input


----------



## hikaru12

Ham Sandwich said:


> A souped up LP like that would be awesome. But would have to be designed by Alex. Monoprice can't do any modifications to the amp without Alex's approval and input.
> 
> I really like the LP but it's also not up to the sonic performance of the Fire and Crimson. It can do better. There is room for improvement. The Fire and Crimson have more transparency and more of that magic that gets the Cavalli "liquid" sound to work so well. Transparency in the sense of being able to better hear through the amp and better hear what the source and headphones are doing. And that magic in the Cavalli sound is something you just have to hear and experience to understand. I consider the LP to be about 90% of the Fire. But in audiophile terms that last 10% is a doozey. A big doozey that can get audiophiles to spend a thousand bucks. Definitely room for improvement with an improved LP.
> 
> Getting rid of the single-ended headphone output would also help in reviews. Some of the middling or not-so-good reviews of the LP have been because the reviewer used the single-ended headphone output. Even though the manual says not to use the single-ended for critical listening. The reviewers did anyways. It's like they never read the manual for the gear they review.


Do you notice a change in the LP when using full balanced (inputs and outputs) vs just the headphone output? Reason I ask is I could swear the LP sounded more detailed with the balanced inputs. Maybe that's perhaps due to the larger volume increase of full balanced or blacker background. I'd love to get my hands on a Crimson some day. It would be a good competitor to the Rogue RH-5 I keep reading about.


----------

